From wheel.cs.kiev.ua!relay1!relay1.cs.kiev.ua!river!L-usenet%river.cs.kiev.ua Tue May 18 20:43:55 1993
Received: by softp.kiev.ua (UUPC/@ v5.00gamma, 07Nov92);
          Tue, 18 May 1993 20:43:55 +0300
Received: by wheel.cs.kiev.ua; Sat, 29 May 93 22:52:17 +0300
Received: by relay1.cs.kiev.ua; Sat, 29 May 93 21:53:24 +0300
X-Class: Slow
To: netters
Sender: L-usenet@river.cs.kiev.ua
Xref: river comp.org.ieee:433 comp.org.acm:649
From: carolyn@usenix.ORG (Carolyn Carr)
Newsgroups: comp.org.ieee,comp.org.acm
Subject: [NEWS] USENIX SUMMER 1993 TECHNICAL CONFERENCE - ACCESS TO INFO
Keywords: USENIX Association
Message-ID: <1373@usenix.ORG>
Date: 27 May 93 23:24:29 GMT
Organization: Usenix Association Office, Berkeley
Lines: 14
Status: RO


If you would like to receive information about the upcoming USENIX
Summer 1993 Technical Conference being held in Cincinnati, Ohio, 
June 21-25, you can do so by using our automatic mail server. 

To receive a listing of all accessible information on upcoming USENIX
events, send mail to: almanac@usenix.org.  The body of your mail 
message should contain only instructions on what to send.  Thus sending
the line: 

     send conferences catalog

will result in your receiving the catalog which describes all program
and registration information available.

From relay1.cs.kiev.ua!river!L-usenet%river.cs.kiev.ua Sun Jun 06 19:52:50 1993
Received: by softp.kiev.ua (UUPC/@ v5.00gamma, 07Nov92);
          Sun,  6 Jun 1993 19:52:50 +0300
Received: by relay1.cs.kiev.ua; Sun,  6 Jun 93 13:05:19 +0300
X-Class: Slow
To: netters
Sender: L-usenet@river.cs.kiev.ua
Xref: river comp.org.eff.talk:8463 comp.org.acm:650
Newsgroups: comp.org.eff.talk,comp.org.acm,misc.legal.computing
From: bd@fluent@dartmouth.EDU (Brice Dowaliby)
Subject: [NEWS] Re: Cracker insurance
In-Reply-To: bvh@cse.unl.edu's message of 2 Jun 1993 15:59:48 GMT
Message-ID: <BD.93Jun3082746@bd.UUCP>
Reply-To: bd%fluent@dartmouth.EDU
Organization: Fluent Inc., Lebanon NH
References: <1uiipkINNaik@crcnis1.unl.edu>
Date: 3 Jun 93 08:27:46
Lines: 38
Status: RO

In article <1uiipkINNaik@crcnis1.unl.edu> bvh@cse.unl.edu (Obi-Wan) writes:

>Several people in the Lincoln, NE, area are thinking of setting
>up a freenet-type system with Internet access.  To keep costs
>down, we're thinking of affiliating it with the University of
>Nebraska - Lincoln's ACM chapter.  One of the things we would
>like to offer is shell access for accounts.
>
>One problem that was pointed out was, "if one of our customers
>breaks into a 'secure' system while logged into our machine,
>can the owners of the victim machine sue our butts off since
>our machine facilitated the break-in?"  Since this system would
>be owned & run by a (possibly non-profit) organization, it
>wouldn't have the same imunity from such suits as a state-run
>university.

[snip]

>Any input on this topic would be greatly appreciated.

I find it interesting that your primary concern is "could
we be sued" and not "to what extent are we responsible for
the behavior of our members?"

I would think that if the organization makes it clear in
its charter what the rights/responsibilities of its
members are, then you would CYA.

If you have a "proper use" policy and enforce it then it
would aid both in protecting you against legal action
and in reinforcing the idea that the individual is
responsible for his/her own actions.

--
   Brice Dowaliby, Fluent Inc., 10 Cavendish Court, Lebanon, NH  03766
                         bd%fluent@dartmouth.edu        
             I don't speak for them, they don't speak for me
                              DoD # 0698

From relay1.cs.kiev.ua!river!L-usenet%river.cs.kiev.ua Sun Jun 06 19:52:50 1993
Received: by softp.kiev.ua (UUPC/@ v5.00gamma, 07Nov92);
          Sun,  6 Jun 1993 19:52:50 +0300
Received: by relay1.cs.kiev.ua; Sun,  6 Jun 93 13:13:30 +0300
X-Class: Slow
To: netters
Sender: L-usenet@river.cs.kiev.ua
Newsgroups: comp.org.acm
From: dave@visual1.jhuapl.edu (Dave Weintraub)
Subject: [NEWS] Re:      Cracker insurance
Message-ID: <1993Jun3.154913.17137@aplcen.apl.jhu.edu>
Reply-To: dave@visual1.jhuapl.edu (Dave Weintraub)
Organization: Johns Hopkins University
References:  <01GYWNS3G6FE8ZDV6I@utkvx.utk.edu>
Date: Thu, 3 Jun 93 15:49:13 GMT
Lines: 36
Status: RO

A few months ago, there was a case of a commercial message
being sent via a ham radio packet network;
commercial messages may *not* be broadcast over ham stations.

The packet repeaters are unattended, automatic systems.

At first, the FCC held that *every* packet station which re-broadcast
this message was liable for fines and penalties.
The latest (or so I understand) is:

The FCC decided that only the operator of the 
*initial* packet repeater was liable:  
Note that this is also an unattended system; 
the originator of the message broadcast it to the local repeater, 
which sent it forward blindly.

So, it *is* conceivable that a legal authority could hold you responsible
for traffic over with which you had no direct involvement.

---- 
dave

This is being posted on INTERNET by
     dave@visual1.jhuapl.edu
I can also be reached as
     dave@aplvm.bitnet       dave@aplvm.jhuapl.edu
Dave Weintraub   The Applied Physics Laboratory  The Johns Hopkins University
   Johns Hopkins Road 3-145    Laurel MD 20723-6099   USA   (301)-953-5839
WB3KWW


In article <01GYWNS3G6FE8ZDV6I@utkvx.utk.edu>,         Mychal B Manie <MANIE%UTK_OAC%HUB%UTKVX@WPGATE.UTK.EDU> writes:
|> Sue you because of an intermediary machine "assisted" in the
|> breakin?  This would seemingly be analogous to sueing the phone
|> company because a modem was used and therefore the transmission
|> medium was the phone service.

From relay1.cs.kiev.ua!river!L-usenet%river.cs.kiev.ua Sun Jun 06 19:52:51 1993
Received: by softp.kiev.ua (UUPC/@ v5.00gamma, 07Nov92);
          Sun,  6 Jun 1993 19:52:51 +0300
Received: by relay1.cs.kiev.ua; Sun,  6 Jun 93 13:56:38 +0300
X-Class: Slow
To: netters
Sender: L-usenet@river.cs.kiev.ua
Xref: river comp.org.eff.talk:8525 comp.org.acm:652
Newsgroups: comp.org.eff.talk,comp.org.acm,misc.legal.computing
From: wayne@backbone.uucp (Wayne Schlitt)
Subject: [NEWS] Re: Cracker insurance
In-Reply-To: bd@fluent@dartmouth.EDU's message of 3 Jun 93 08: 27:46
Message-ID: <WAYNE.93Jun4211235@backbone.uucp>
Organization: The Backbone Cabal
References: <1uiipkINNaik@crcnis1.unl.edu> <BD.93Jun3082746@bd.UUCP>
Date: Sat, 5 Jun 1993 03:12:35 GMT
Lines: 33
Status: RO

In article <BD.93Jun3082746@bd.UUCP> bd@fluent@dartmouth.EDU (Brice Dowaliby) writes:
> Lines: 38
> 
> In article <1uiipkINNaik@crcnis1.unl.edu> bvh@cse.unl.edu (Obi-Wan) writes:
> 
> >Several people in the Lincoln, NE, area are thinking of setting
> >up a freenet-type system with Internet access.  [ ... ]
> >
> [snip]
> 
> >Any input on this topic would be greatly appreciated.
> 
> I find it interesting that your primary concern is "could
> we be sued" and not "to what extent are we responsible for
> the behavior of our members?"

Well, no, our primary concern is can we get something like this up and
running at a reasonable cost.  In particular, we are interested in _all_
the costs associated with this type of service.  As one of the members
of our groups says:  "I have been sued for stupid things.  Don't
believe that good intentions and reasonable precautions prevent that."
(Yes, they do help you win the case, but anyone can sue...)


Yes, we intend to make sure every one who uses the system is well
aware of their responsibilities, but we also want to be responsible to
the University and/or any other organization that we are associated
with.  I view it very much like car insurance.  I don't intend to ever
use the liability insurance that I have, but it seems like a real good
idea to have.


-wayne

From relay1.cs.kiev.ua!river!L-usenet%river.cs.kiev.ua Tue Jun 08 07:54:47 1993
Received: by softp.kiev.ua (UUPC/@ v5.00gamma, 07Nov92);
          Tue,  8 Jun 1993 07:54:47 +0300
Received: by relay1.cs.kiev.ua; Mon,  7 Jun 93 22:37:10 +0300
X-Class: Slow
To: netters
Sender: L-usenet@river.cs.kiev.ua
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Return-Path: <@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU,@VTBIT.BITNET:owner-acm-l@KENTVM.KENT.EDU>
X-Envelope-to: ACM-L@KENTVM.BITNET
X-VMS-To: IN:"ACM-L@KENTVM.BITNET"
MIME-version: 1.0
Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
Message-ID: <01GZ3BEEZUZ691VRHI@utkvx.utk.edu>
Newsgroups: comp.org.acm
Date:         Mon, 7 Jun 1993 09:22:07 -0400
From:         Mychal B Manie <MANIE%UTK_OAC%HUB%UTKVX@WPGATE.UTK.EDU>
Subject: [NEWS] Internet Privileges
Lines: 47
Status: RO

The following message is being forwarded to this list...

Most of you are probably aware of a plan to limit free use of
INTERNET to "scientists" transmitting huge files and to start
charging for e-mail.  Apparently, this is the result of private
telecommunications interests putting pressure on the National
Science Foundation.

If this plan is realized, it will mean that the majority of the
approximately 15 million users of INTERNET will be cut off.
Sadly, this is occurring just when the potential of this
network
was starting to be realized.

Something must be DONE.  We can not let private interests
deprive
us of access to INTERNET.

I suggest that all concerned users register their
protest/concern
directly with Clinton and Gore via e-mail.  Their e-mail
address
have recently been posted and they are:

Clinton= PRESIDENT@WHITEHOUSE.GOV
Gore = VICE.PRESIDENT@WHITEHOUSE.GOV

In addition, I also suggest that we identify the office in the
NSF which is responsible for INTERNET and register electronic
protests with them.

Any help or suggestions would be appreciated, especially in
locating the e-mail address for the office in the NSF.

* Carl H.A. Dassbach            BITNET:  DASSBACH@MTUS5
     *
-------------------------------------------------------------
Mychal Boyd Manie
       Yorn desh born, der ritt de gitt der gue,
       Orn desh, dee born desh, de umn bork! bork! bork!
                          -The Swedish Chef (the muppets)
#include <disclaimer.h>  ...this message hereby disclaimed...
#include <stdio.h>
         MANIE%UTK_OAC@wpgate.utk.edu         P.O. Box 8692
         Voice:  (615)974-2398                Knoxville, TN
         FAX:    (615)974-5403                37996-0002
--------------------------------------------------------------

From relay1.cs.kiev.ua!river!L-usenet%river.cs.kiev.ua Wed Jun 09 16:03:12 1993
Received: by softp.kiev.ua (UUPC/@ v5.00gamma, 07Nov92);
          Wed,  9 Jun 1993 16:03:12 +0300
Received: by relay1.cs.kiev.ua; Wed,  9 Jun 93 07:31:13 +0300
X-Class: Slow
To: netters
Sender: L-usenet@river.cs.kiev.ua
Newsgroups: comp.org.acm
From: eggert@twinsun.com (Paul Eggert)
Subject: [NEWS] Re: Internet Privileges
Message-ID: <bmv4EGtN@twinsun.com>
Nntp-Posting-Host: bi
Organization: Twin Sun Inc, El Segundo, CA, USA
References: <01GZ3BEEZUZ691VRHI@utkvx.utk.edu> <1v0h3b$63t@terminator.rs.itd.umich.edu>
Date: Tue, 8 Jun 1993 19:58:27 GMT
Lines: 19
Status: RO

honey@citi.umich.edu (Peter Honeyman) writes:

>mychal, i guess i am among that information-deprived minority of folks
>who haven't heard a thing about it.  please provide details.

There was an article about this in a recent issue of _Science_; look in
the last month or two.  It's part of the Clinton-Gore ``electronic
superhighway'' initiative, and so far it's been confined to
inside-the-beltway lobbying that hasn't been turned into policy -- yet.
But, basically, some DC policy-makers favor forcing small
scientific/educational users onto for-profit networks, reserving the
NSF backbone for important stuff like genome sequencing and high-energy
physics data.  Think of it as a new battleground for the the Big
Science vs Little Science war.

You're not the only one who hasn't heard a thing about it -- last week
I talked to Gwen Bell, President of the ACM, who gave a talk at the LA
ACM about the Electronic Superhighway, but who also didn't seem to know
much about it either.  Perhaps it was a false alarm; but perhaps not.

From relay1.cs.kiev.ua!river!L-usenet%river.cs.kiev.ua Wed Jun 09 16:03:12 1993
Received: by softp.kiev.ua (UUPC/@ v5.00gamma, 07Nov92);
          Wed,  9 Jun 1993 16:03:12 +0300
Received: by relay1.cs.kiev.ua; Wed,  9 Jun 93 07:31:22 +0300
X-Class: Slow
To: netters
Sender: L-usenet@river.cs.kiev.ua
Comments: Gated by NETNEWS@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU
Return-Path: <@AUVM.AMERICAN.EDU,@VTBIT.BITNET:owner-acm-l@KENTVM.KENT.EDU>
X-Envelope-to: ACM-L@KENTVM.BITNET
X-VMS-To: IN:"ACM L@KENTVM.BITNET"
MIME-version: 1.0
Content-type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII
Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT
Message-ID: <01GZ4XR8DAJQ90MTGH@utkvx.utk.edu>
Newsgroups: comp.org.acm
Date:         Tue, 8 Jun 1993 13:13:10 -0400
From:         Mychal B Manie <MANIE%UTK_OAC%HUB%UTKVX@WPGATE.UTK.EDU>
Subject: [NEWS] Internet Access
Lines: 108
Status: RO

From:     WPGATE::IN%"stapp@next.duq.edu"   8-JUN-1993 12:36
To:  IN%"HOLISTIC%SIUCVMB.BITNET@UTKVM1.UTK.EDU"  "Multiple
recipients of list HOLISTIC"
CC:
Subj:     Internet Access


Someone has evidently papered the world with "INTERNET FREE
ACCESS THREATENED" messages.  This is my response to the first
one I saw.
-s


> Most of you are probably aware of a plan to limit free use of
> INTERNET to "scientists" transmitting huge files and to start
> charging for e-mail.  Apparently, this is the result of
private
> telecommunications interests putting pressure on the National
> Science Foundation.
>
> If this plan is realized, it will mean that the majority of
the
> approximately 15 million users of INTERNET will be cut off.
> Sadly, this is occurring just when the potential of this
network
> was starting to be realized.
>
> Something must be DONE.  We can not let private interests
deprive
> us of access to INTERNET.
>
> I suggest that all concerned users register their
protest/concern
> directly with Clinton and Gore via e-mail.  Their e-mail
address
> have recently been posted and they are:
>
> Clinton= PRESIDENT@WHITEHOUSE.GOV
> Gore = VICE.PRESIDENT@WHITEHOUSE.GOV
>
> In addition, I also suggest that we identify the office in
the
> NSF which is responsible for INTERNET and register electronic
> protests with them.
>
> Any help or suggestions would be appreciated, especially in
> locating the e-mail address for the office in the NSF.

This is the responsible office in the NSF, and I am the
responsible person.

There is no "plan to limit free use of INTERNET..."

In the first place, there is no such thing as "free use of
INTERNET". Each and every institution with Internet access pays
a service provider real money every year for the institution's
connection.  Most institutions do not however trickle those
charges down to users, but pay for them out of general
operating funds.

Service providers, most of whom serve a limited geographical
area, attain national and international coverage via the NSFNET
BackBone Service, which has hitherto been centrally funded by an
award to Merit, Inc. and provided to the regional service
providers at no charge.

Since the beginning of the current NSFNET Backbone Service in
1987, a lively and competitive commercial market in Internet
carriage has emerged, with multiple vendors offering robust,
nationwide, commodity-level services.

Continued centralized funding of a Backbone Service by the
Foundation is no longer justified, as it would place the Federal
government in direct competition with the private sector.

Awards made under the currently active solicitation will
include
awards to regional networks to purchase backbone service on the
open market.  That is, the NSF will switch from supplier funding
to user funding.

The NSF is committed to continuity of network service to the
research and education community; we will take whatever steps
are necessary to assure it.

If you want to take this up with NSF, please note the person
that
wrote the message which I forwarded to you was Stephen Wolff
<steve@cise.cise.nsf.gov>.  I would suggest a moderated /
moderate discussion, or perhaps simply asking for more
information on the NSF policy, how it is developed and how you,
as individuals and institutions, can contribute to, and have an
increased awareness of, that policy.  In particular, Michael
Giddings <giddings@moraine.chem.wisc.edu>, has initiated a
discussion and would perhaps be willing to coordinate such a
discussion with the proper indivdual at the NSF.

-------------------------------------------------------------
Mychal Boyd Manie
       Yorn desh born, der ritt de gitt der gue,
       Orn desh, dee born desh, de umn bork! bork! bork!
                          -The Swedish Chef (the muppets)
#include <disclaimer.h>  ...this message hereby disclaimed...
#include <stdio.h>
         MANIE%UTK_OAC@wpgate.utk.edu         P.O. Box 8692
         Voice:  (615)974-2398                Knoxville, TN
         FAX:    (615)974-5403                37996-0002
--------------------------------------------------------------

