Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 1 of 384
 From : Dana Zendell                        1:120/102       .óá 20 .àé 95 11:35
 To   : All
 Subj : Help on X-Files Finale
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12  91-0071
Hi everyone,

I missed the final episode of the X-Files as well as the highlights
which aired right before the show.  Would anybody be willing to send me
a copy of those 2 hours of X-Files?  I would really appreciate it.
From what I have heard, it sounded like it was very good finale.  And if
needed I could send a videotape to copy it on.

Dana

--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12
 * Origin: The Atari Advocate Wildcat NEC Net 120  (1:120/102.0)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 2 of 384
 From : Gary Warren                         1:382/92        .îí 22 .àé 95 09:16
 To   : All
 Subj : CREATION REVIEW 1995 (part 2)
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: IMAIL-386 1.60+ PK32
CREATION REVIEW 1995:  THE TROUBLE WITH R'NOLD!

By GARY L. WARREN (aka "glw")

(continued from last message)

        After we were firmly, but not happily, seated, we suffered
through the introductory music video (isn't ANYBODY who is vaguely
familiar with classical music, late 1970's rock or WAYNE'S WORLD
besides me tired of hearing Queen's version of "Bohemian Rhapsody" for
the 97th time?).  Then we concentrated a bit more on Arnold's
humourlessly spoken (to everyone but himself) news of  past and
forthcoming episodes of DEEP SPACE NINE and VOYAGER, as well as
last November's release of the movie GENERATIONS.  Among the tidbits
were:

[:::red flags waving!:::POSSIBLE SPOILER ALERT!:::ANYBODY READING PAST
THIS POINT **ISN'T** BEING FORCED TO DO SO AT GUNPOINT!:::waving green
flag!:::]


        °       Even though Paramount filmed 22 episodes of VOYAGER,
its first season will only include the first 16, with the remaining ones
probably added to next season's slate.
        °       Since Colm Meany (Miles O'Brien on DS9) has a contract
allowing him to include his outside movie roles with his regular DS9
appearances, his stay on that series is assured for several years.
        °       The subplot of Quark's nephew Nog's application to
Starfleet will surface again in the DS9 episode "Facets."
        °       DS9's Benjamin Sisco (Avery Brooks) will be promoted to
captain at the end of this season.
        °       Paramount has not been giving the Creation company nor
local television stations very many VOYAGER clips.  Arnold didn't
elaborate on why this was so.
        °       Even though Robert McNeil's Tom Paris on VOYAGER and his
earlier TNG Nick Lacarno from "The First Duty" have identical semi-bad guy
character backgrounds, the Lacarno character was rewritten into Paris in
order for Paramount to avoid paying the scripter(s) of "The First Duty"
residuals for each VOYAGER episode involving Lacarno. (And we thought
Paramount dishonestly credited or underpaid its TREK franchise
scriptwriters--AHEM!!)
        °       Although GENERATIONS is next to last place's STAR TREK V:
THE FINAL FRONTIER in total profits, it is the MOST successful of the TREK
movies in overseas tickets.  Arnold also said (surprisingly, perhaps
disputingly) that the debut film STAR TREK:  THE MOTION PICTURE ranks
first in TOTAL sales.
    °  To avoid an R-rating for STAR TREK VI:
THE UNDISCOVERED COUNTRY, the Klingon blood bubbles were Pepto
Bismol-coloured.  "Purple blood," commented Arnold, "is considered
less violent than RED blood!"


        After a few more music and promotional videos (including an X-FILES
promo which consisted of only clips from a Fox TV news program and one of
the Sci-Fi Network's SCI-FI BUZZ episodes), a trivia contest
and a merchandise auction, special guest Shatner took the podium to a
rousing applause.  As usual, Shatner didn't sign autographs, and most
of his agenda consisted of a question-and-answer session.  Although we
heard most of his spiel last year, there were a few new items:

        °       Despite Paramount's monetary concerns, it always builds a
new Enterprise bridge for each movie.
        °       The horseback-riding scene with Patrick Stewart in
GENERATIONS took two days to shoot, where it was up to Shatner to teach
Stewart how to ride AND to wear panty-hose *inside* his pants.
        °       His new STAR TREK novel, ASHES OF EDEN, is part of a planned
trilogy.  He also added that VOYAGER and DS9 producer Rick Berman may
consider his screenplay for ASHES as part of another TREK film,
which would inevitably result in Captain James T. Kirk's "resurrection"
for at least this supposed movie.  However, Shatner admitted Berman
has been quoted as saying the next TREK project would be strictly a TNG one.
        °       While USA Network has canceled TEKWAR, a Canadian network
is considering producing more episodes.  Also, a line of TEKWAR CD-ROM
products would be released soon, presumably from a special effects
company Shatner bought.
        °       Shatner said he believes VOYAGER is "more in line" with the
exploratory premise of the Original Series than DS9, even though he
admitted seeing only "Caretaker," VOYAGER's two-hour debut.
        °       Among his most degrading entertainment assignments, Shatner
listed his role in the 1970's KINGDOM OF THE SPIDERS and his late
1960's rendition of "Lucy in the Sky with Diamonds." He explained, however,
that the original cut included his reading from "Man from La Mancha"
intercut with his "interpretation" of the Beatles hit in order to provide
a sort of literary contrast of the times.  The purpose of the release
containing only "Lucy" was "to DEGRADE me!" Shatner exclaimed.
        °       Shatner included "The City on the Edge of Forever" (which
he labeled "The City on the Edge of the River") and "The Trouble with Tribbles"
("the one with the little tribbles in it") with his favorite Original
Series episodes.  He also mused that the show's finale "Turnabout Intruder"
("where a woman entered MY body!") was one of his most unforgettable TOS shows.

        Since we had our fill of Shatner and parking and seating hassles,
Teri and I didn't bother to stay for the rescheduled blooper reel.
If I was teaching at Teri's school where she works, I'd stamp a fat D-plus
(D+) for the convention's grade, with the only saving graces being the
informational bits and Shatner's appearance.  If I were to repeat my
oath from last year not to attend another Creation convention, I'd gladly
do so with crossed fingers. But I'd ALSO add the caveat that Creation needs
to come up with another convention site with better parking and audience
seating AND a convention host with a tumbleweed's inkling about
handicapped accessibility issues.


                                   -- glw --

***********************************************************************
Copyrighted (c) Gary L. Warren, POBox 529, Johnson City, Texas 78636,
(210) 868-4310.  This review may be uploaded to any electronic
computer bulletin board service (bbs) or any relevant computer network
forum or echo as long as full credit is given to
Ye Olde Critic.
***************************************************************************

... Handicaps are not the problem, attitudes are
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
 * Origin:  Rendezvous!! 28.8_VFC Bastrop, Tx [512-303-1324] (1:382/92)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 3 of 384
 From : Michael Nellis                      1:240/99.58     .îí 22 .àé 95 11:21
 To   : Michael Tauson
 Subj : spitting
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

--> Note:

Moved (from: WRITING) by Shalanna Collins using timEd.

Hi, Michael.

MN> As a prisoner, Tasha was basically a slave and subjected to
MN> rape by the Romulan who kept her.
MT> Sounds like an alternate universe situation since that
MT> didn't happen in any episodes series that I remember prior
MT> to her demise.

Correct.  It came about when the Enterprise -D stopped to examine this
temporal anamoly.  Surprise, surprise, out popped the Enterprise -C.
That one had been on its way to respond to a distress call from the
Khitomer outpost, then under surprise attack by Romulans.  The problem
arose from the 1701-C no longer being in its properly appointed time.
The Klingon/Federation treaty then being effect, the Enterprise was
expected to respond to the distress signals and attempt to assist the
Khitomer outpost.  However, due to its sudden preciptation into the
future, it never arrived at the outpost.  This resulted in the Klingons
declaring the treaty as breached and declaring war on the Federation.

At the point where the 1701-D meets the 1701-C, the Federation is six
months away from losing the war.

Now, the only way Picard finds out that there has been a revision in the
time line, is because Guinan is sensitive that sort of thing.  In the
opening header, she is in Ten Forward when the temporal revision takes
place, and the Enterprise goes from being on exploration cruise, to
being on a war footing with a crew of about three thousand, most of them
being heavily armed marines.  She looks around herself at all these
jarheads and wonders what the Hell is going on.

Because of the revision, certain events in the history of the 1701-D did
not take place, of course.  For instance, the Federation never found
Data, Worf was never picked up from the ruins of the outpost to go to
StarFleet Academy, and there was no ship's counselor.

You probably remember that Yar was killed while going to Troi's rescue.
Since in this time line, there was no Troi on board, that episode never
happened.

It was a brilliant piece of paying attention to temporal manipulation.

At any rate, Yar finds out from Guinan, who never knew Tasha Yar, that
she was supposed to have died in a seperate time line.  Yar just
happened to have fallen for the first officer of the 1701-C, and she
figured, since she was dead anyway, why not go back with the 1701-C as
their tactical officer.  Since she had all this invaluable experience in
the Klingon/Federation war, she figured she could make a significant
difference in how the 1701-C handled itself at the Khitomer outpost,
so that, if destroyed, the Klingons would report favourably on the
honour with which the ship died.  Then the war would never take place
and everything would be as it should.

That did happen.  What nobody found out until later, was that some of
the crew was not killed in the battle, but taken prisoner, including
Tasha, of course.

What happens afterward can be left as the subject for some other
rambling post. <G>

MT> ===__-*-   The No-Win Trek Tagline  *--+/__ *--+/__  *--=/__

Kobayashi Maru, this is the USS Secondprize!  Drop your shields and
surrender.

Michael

... Whichoneisthespacebar?
--- timEd-B11
 * Origin: Fang's Lair: where no one can hear you scream. (1:240/99.58)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 4 of 384
 From : Donald Jaramillo                    1:203/1701      .îí 22 .àé 95 18:04
 To   : Chris Baugh
 Subj : Vr.5
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Knowing the world was about to end, Donald Jaramillo and Chris Baugh
wasted their last moments talking about Vr.5...

 CB> I saw the season finale, and I did like the idea that the VR
 CB> equipment (including gloves and goggles) has been as dramatically
 CB> miniaturized since 1978 as the rest of computer technology, but I
 CB> don't recall any mention of making a connection to a remote
 CB> mainframe.  I took the mention of a retina scan as referring to a
 CB> small camera which provided an image of the eyeball to a security
 CB> program running on Samantha's notebook computer, for the three
 CB> computers to be linked together.

Like I said, I may have missed it.  I could have sworn that I heard
Samantha say something about Sydney not actually being able to achieve
VR.5 unil her father had reactivated 'the system.'

I'll have to catch it on the rerun.

I, too, enjoyed the advance.  If they had been able to achieve VR.5 or
VR.5 back in 1978, they must have made some advances.  :-)

 CB> DJ> Interesting cliffhanger, though...wheels within wheels...

 CB> You bet!

 CB> It's seemed to me that there could easily be a tie-in between VR.5
 CB> and X-Files: maybe the twins were part of the genetically engineered
 CB> telepathy experiments, and the VR technology was derived from UFO
 CB> equipment - with VR.11 consisting of a direct telepathic link with
 CB> the mothership! :-)

I was thinking something like that when the mystery first began
unfolding.  Looks like it's all for naught.  According to the article
I read, VR.5 and Sliders have been canceled.  :-(


Internet address: djaramil@ls1.leg.ca.gov


... "We are Dreamers, Shapers, Singers, amd Makers."  --Elric the Technomage
---
 * Tag-X Pro v1.10 (Registered!) *
--- Blue Wave/TG v2.12 [NR]
 * Origin: The Itchy & Scratchy Show (916) 721-1701 (1:203/1701.0)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 5 of 384
 From : Mark Jones                          1:105/302.47    .îí 22 .àé 95 18:44
 To   : Steven Skaggs
 Subj : Star Wars
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On (18 May 95) Steven Skaggs wrote to Jack Butler...

 SS> Well, I think he's had a basic idea for the rest of the movies
 SS> since he wrote the originals. He has stated several times over
 SS> the past few years that Episode I will be out sometime before the
 SS> end of the 20th century. Why would he lie about it?

There are several possibilities:

   ...because he's out of ideas.  He has no clue what to do next, and
is "vamping" desperately, hoping to come up with something.  (People
have been hearing this "any day now" stuff for nearly twenty years.
It would be embarrassing to admit that the well is dry.)

   ...because he doesn't *want* to do it, but can't find a way to
gracefully back out of it.  (People have been hearing this "any day
now" stuff for nearly twenty years.  It would be embarrassing to admit
that he just doesn't want to do it.)

   ...because keeping the hope alive helps fan the flames, selling
videos, toys, games and whatnot to all the fans who continue to slaver
for more; i.e., pure cynical profiteering.

   I don't claim that any of these is accurate--only that they *could*
be.  There are plenty of reasons not to make a new trilogy, possibly
more reasons than there are to do it.
   Consider:
   Lucas has got to have more money than he can every spend; Star Wars
was HUGE.  Not to mention a few little projects like Indiana Jones
that didn't do badly either.  He simply isn't *hungry*.
   Also, everyone will be expecting the new trilogy to be at least as
big as the original films.  That's a huge cross to bear.  If it
doesn't turn into a gold mine, he'll be seen to have failed (Hollywood
has a very short memory).
   If it isn't as mind-blowingly novel as the first film was (and I
don't think it *can* be), again he'll be seen as having failed.
   So...he has a lot to lose (losing money and getting panned hurts
even if you can live on the profits from the earlier films for the
rest of your life) if it doesn't all go perfectly.  And it almost
certainly won't go perfectly.



... I just want to be left alone.  Is that so wrooooong?

--- PPoint 1.78
 * Origin: HQ of World Domination, Inc. (1:105/302.47)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 6 of 384
 From : FRANK SWARBRICK                     1:104/825       .îí 22 .àé 95 20:57
 To   : SKIP SHAYOTOVICH
 Subj : UPCOMING BABYLON FIVE EPI
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On 05-18-95  17:21 Skip Shayotovich, the little pine weasel, said:

 SS> = A long time ago, in a galaxy far, far away, Mark said: =

 MH> 5/08/95  216     Knives [Larry DiTillio]
 MH> 5/15/95  217     The Shadow of Z'ha'dum [JMS]

 SS> Ah... did anyone else get these two episodes reversed?  This past
 SS> weeks episode for me out here in Northern California was KNIVES, and
 SS> the week before that was THE SHADOW OF Z'HA'DUM.

Mark's list is a bit old.  "Knives" was filmed first but aired second.
It was done this way everywhere.  Dunno why...

        Frank

... "How may I be honest with you today?" --Tuvok
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12
--- Silver Xpress Mail System 5.3W1G
 * Origin: Bailey Info Exchange : 303-674-0147 (1:104/825)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 7 of 384
 From : Pamela Crossett                     1:325/118       .òp 23 .àé 95 04:40
 To   : Demian Katz
 Subj : Re: Earth 2/So Long
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
I just saw the episode "all about eve" - do you know if that was the final
episode?

It sure raised a lot of questions, and boy will I be annoyed to have to make
them up for myself.

Also, was Riley played by a different actor in this episode than in the past
ones?

Why did Devon not get an implant? And how does she know she didn't. Has she been
holding out on us?

Tell me you thoughts (and any answers you may have).

Pam

--- Maximus/2 2.02
 * Origin: The Ozone Layer, Williston, VT. (802) 862-5058 (1:325/118)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 8 of 384
 From : Tony Trujillo                       1:280/9         .òp 23 .àé 95 09:07
 To   : Kay Shapero
 Subj : Re: SLIDERS SEASON FINALE
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE 1.11+

 KS> Hanged if I know (be it noted that that particular rumor seems to be
 KS> chronic among tv shows everytime it looks like there might be a cast
 KS> shakeup). Or care frankly - the character I least wish to see vanish
 KS> from the lineup is the Professor. I happen to like John Rhys-Davies.

I thought the end of that episode was written the wrong way
round. I thought they should have shot Wade instead of
Quinn...on the basis that I felt they could probably lose
her without upsetting the cast balance too much. The only two
characters I think should remain the same should be Quinn
and Arturo.

BTW: They need to ditch the dog ASAP!


... There is intelligent life on Earth, but we are just visiting.
--- Via Silver Xpress V4.02B03 SW01177
 * Origin: South of the River - Overland Park KS - (913)642-7907 V.* (1:280/9)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 9 of 384
 From : Brion Lienhart                      1:213/700.2     .òp 23 .àé 95 13:36
 To   : Jack Butler
 Subj : CGI
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On Sat May 20, Jack Butler said to Shawn Mcgrath:

 SM> No, there were _never_ any people in raptor suits. No raptor suits
 SM> were ever made. There were various raptor "parts" used, like the feet
 SM> for the counter- top closeup, and the head that breathed on the
 SM> window, but there were no godzilla-style raptor suits. People can't
 SM> move that way.

 -JB>     The closest they came to "raptor-suits" was "raptor-gloves", used
 -JB>for the "foreleg talons only" scenes.

Well, then I guess _The Making of Jurassic Park_ is just chock-full-o-lies then,
because there are lots of pictures and drawings of almost full body suits, legs
only rigs, head & body puppets, and all kinds of non-cgi things. Almost none of
the raptor scenes were done in CGI.




--- QM v1.31
 * Origin: Ministry of Peace - Carson City, NV (1:213/700.2)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 10 of 384
 From : Jan Rooth                           1:135/23        .òp 23 .àé 95 16:00
 To   : Gary Warren
 Subj : Re: SLIDERS season final
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 -=> Quoting Gary Warren to All <=-

 GW> In spite of the simplistic storylines and the program's
 GW> basic hokiness, I stuck with the Fox network's science fiction series
 GW> SLIDERS because the show's parallel earth premise showed promise.

Actually, I think the basic hokiness, along with the little jokes,
are the show's most charming traits. Parallel earths, as a premise,
is a pretty old, overused idea.

[...] (critical review of season conclusion skipped)

 GW> episode would be a sure winner.  MY grade for this ep would be a
 GW> D-minus, with a C-minus for the overall season.

I'll give both a B-minus. But I think you're expecting more from
this show than I am. To me, it's just a bit of mindless fun. Look
too close, and a lot of flaws rear their ugly heads.

Jan

... Ivanova will personally rip your lungs out.
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

--- Maximus 2.02
 * Origin: Telcom Central (1:135/23)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 11 of 384
 From : Mark Jones                          1:105/302.47    .òp 23 .àé 95 18:24
 To   : Kay Shapero
 Subj : SLIDERS SEASON FINALE
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On (22 May 95) Kay Shapero wrote to Tony Limbert...

 KS> Hanged if I know (be it noted that that particular rumor seems to
 KS> be chronic among tv shows everytime it looks like there might be
 KS> a cast shakeup). Or care frankly - the character I least wish to
 KS> see vanish from the lineup is the Professor. I happen to like
 KS> John Rhys-Davies.

Ditto--if Rhys-Davies takes a powder, I'll be mighty disappointed.

I also have nothing against Quinn.  And I like Wade.

It's *Rembrandt* I can't stand.  When the Lottery Police were driving
him off to a long and painful death, I was *cheering* them on.  (And
while I've come to like the actor playing the part, I don't think I'll
ever like the character.)


... Assassinate IRA KGB cryptographers stealing Zimmerman's cocaine!

--- PPoint 1.78
 * Origin: HQ of World Domination, Inc. (1:105/302.47)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 12 of 384
 From : Joel Jessup                         1:2613/105      .òp 23 .àé 95 20:55
 To   : Arsenal
 Subj : SeaQuest DSV 5/21/95
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 A> Lucus,Darwin is What his name(blank) are on a raft

Dagwood's the name

 A> I heard from the ups that some of the crew won't be returning.
 A> heard that Bridger is being reasigned and only
 A> returning once in a while..
 A> anyone heard any thing to the truth?

I haven't heard, but will post if I do...

--- Maximus 2.00
 * Origin: Desert Heat BBS (1:2613/105)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 13 of 384
 From : Starwolf                            1:163/214       .òp 23 .àé 95 22:07
 To   : Jack Butler
 Subj : Military values
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

JB>  "Defend"?  As in "they never attack"?  Sure they don't.

And they don't do all that great a job of defending, either.  In an early
episode of VOYAGER, one of her crew is kidnapped by the phage victims and has
one of his lungs removed forcibly against their will.

Capt. Janeway tells the miscreants that it was a naughty thing to do and that
they shouldn't do it again.  With that stern punishment, Voyager heads out.  A
couple of episodes later, the phage people are back and they kidnap ANOTHER
member of the crew and perform MORE medical interventions against the subject's
wishes.  What happens?  The subject is rescued by a transporter party and then
Voyager departs again, this time without so much as a stern warning.

If I were the crew of that ship, I'd worry about how little the captain was
willing to do in terms of letting potential enemies know they'd better keep
their mitts off.  I'd have thought a fractional megatonner or a couple of
well-placed torps would have got the point across a whole lot better than
Janeway's obviously ineffectual strategy.


--- Maximus 2.01wb
 * Origin: Land of Ill Repute (1:163/214)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 14 of 384
 From : Jack Butler                         1:363/309       .pä 24 .àé 95 02:40
 To   : Chris Carter
 Subj : Centauri Tech
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 Quoth Chris Carter, "Nevermore".

 CC> As best I can tell, the only real advantages the Centauri have over
 CC> EarthForce is a reactionless maneuvering system, (seen on their
 CC> fighters) and the possibility of possession of artificial gravity
 CC> (JMS hasn't come clean on this point).  Neither one of these things
 CC> are of particular significance.

     I dunno.  You can do quite a bit with artificial gravity... and
reactionless motivation can be used for quite a bit more than just spaceship
thrusters...


 CC> Kinda makes one wonder how the Agamemnon would fare against a
 CC> Centauri cruiser...

     I think the Agamemmnon would tear a large hole in a Centauri thruster.
Just a personal feeling, myself.

     Jack Butler



... "If you'll believe in me, I'll believe in you" -- Pearled Unicorn
--- FMail 0.98a
 * Origin: Forethought BBS -=- Orlando FL -=- 407-277-7530 (1:363/309)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 15 of 384
 From : Jack Butler                         1:363/309       .pä 24 .àé 95 04:02
 To   : Myranya Werlemann
 Subj : Directorial Trademarks
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 Quoth Myranya Werlemann, "Nevermore".

 MW> That's really interesting. Do you know _why_ it's 1138?

     The first movie George Lucas ever directed was THX 1138.  Since then
all of his movies have that number somewhere in it.


 MW> I can see how you can include 'See you next Wednesday' in a movie,
 MW> but "Klaatu Beratis Nikto"??? What movie(s) is that from???
 MW> I'm not that good when it comes to who directs what...

     Its originally a line from "The Day The Earth Stood Still".  (It's the
command given to Gort the robot.)

     Jack Butler



... Scotty!  Hurry!  Beam me uragg^*       NO CARRIER
--- FMail 0.98a
 * Origin: Forethought BBS -=- Orlando FL -=- 407-277-7530 (1:363/309)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 16 of 384
 From : Jack Butler                         1:363/309       .pä 24 .àé 95 04:41
 To   : Brian Henderson
 Subj : B5 Ripoff: Ds9
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 Quoth Brian Henderson, "Nevermore".

 BH> No kidding.  I didn't say otherwise.  I did say, however, that B5 has
 BH> a higher purpose than *JUST* making a quick buck.

     Its a secondary purpose, but not necessarily higher.


 BH> For Warner, it quite possibly might be.  For Babylonian Productions,
 BH> however, it certainly is not.  If it were, JMS wouldn't be funneling
 BH> any production underruns back into the series, would he?

     Actually, he would.  Why, you ask?  Simple:  there is a concept out
there called "embezzelment".  If he were to do anything else with the money,
he'd go to jail for a long time.

     Jack Butler



... "You are fine now.  You may leave." -- Doc Zimmerman
--- FMail 0.98a
 * Origin: Forethought BBS -=- Orlando FL -=- 407-277-7530 (1:363/309)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 17 of 384
 From : Jack Butler                         1:363/309       .pä 24 .àé 95 04:43
 To   : Barry Blaes
 Subj : SLIDERS SEASON FINALE
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 Quoth Barry Blaes, "Nevermore".

 SW> him back but the 2 new Sliders look like replacements

 BB> Ok... I give up... Who is the dog gonna replace...? ;>

     Arturo, obviously.

     Jack Butler



... When the patterns in the cycloid call in whipsers soft remembered
--- FMail 0.98a
 * Origin: Forethought BBS -=- Orlando FL -=- 407-277-7530 (1:363/309)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 18 of 384
 From : Jack Butler                         1:363/309       .pä 24 .àé 95 04:59
 To   : All
 Subj : Highlander Episodes
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
   Episode  Production                                   Air Date
     No.        No.          Title                     (On Week of)
   ----------------------------------------------------------------
                              First Season
                              ------------
      1       92102-1      "The Gathering"               10/01/92
      2       92103-4      "Innocent Man"                10/08/92
      3       92108-3      "Road Not Taken"              10/15/92
      4       92107-6      "Bad Day in Building A"       10/22/92
      5       92101-5      "Free Fall"                   10/29/92
      6       92111-8      "Deadly Medicine"             11/06/92
      7       92110-7      "Mountain Men"                11/13/92
      8       92109-10     "Revenge is Sweet"            11/19/92
      9       92112-9      "The Sea Witch"               12/03/92
     10       92115-12     "Eyewitness"                  12/10/92
     11       92106-2      "Family Tree"                 12/17/92
     12       92114-11     "See No Evil"                 02/04/93
     13       92118-13     "Band of Brothers"            02/11/93
     14       92117-14     "For Evil's Sake"*            02/18/93
     15       92116-15     "For Tomorrow We Die"         02/25/93
     16       92123-16     "The Beast Below"             03/07/93
     17       92120-17     "Saving Grace"                03/14/93
     18       92121-18     "The Lady and the Tiger"      04/22/93
     19       92122-20     "Avenging Angel"              04/29/93
     20       92124-19     "Eye of the Beholder"         05/06/93
     21       92125-21     "Nowhere to Run"              05/13/93
     22       92126-22     "The Hunters"                 05/20/93

                              Second Season
                              -------------
     23       93201-23     "The Watchers"                09/30/93
     24       93202-24     "Studies in Light"            10/07/93
     25       93203-25     "Turnabout"                   10/14/93
     26       93204-26     "The Darkness"                10/21/93
     27       93205-27     "Eye for an Eye"              10/28/93
     28       93206-28     "The Zone"                    11/04/93
     29       93207-29     "The Return of Amanda"        11/11/93
     30       93208-30     "Revenge of the Sword"        11/18/93
     31       93209-31     "Run for Your Life"           11/25/93
     32       93210-32     "Epitaph for Tommy"           12/02/93
     33       93213-35     "Bless the Child"             01/27/94
     34       93211-33     "The Fighter"                 02/03/94
     35       93212-34     "Under Color of Authority"    02/10/94
     36       93214-36     "Unholy Alliance, Part 1"     02/17/94
     37       93215-37     "Unholy Alliance, Part 2"*    02/24/94
     38       93216-38     "The Vampire"                 03/03/94
     39       93217-39     "Warmonger"                   03/17/94
     40       93218-40     "Pharaoh's Daughter"          05/05/94
     41       93219-41     "Legacy"                      05/12/94
     42       93220-42     "Prodigal Son"                05/19/94
     43       93221-43     "Counterfeit, Part 1"         05/26/94
     44       93222-44     "Counterfeit, Part 2"         06/02/94

                                Third Season
                                ------------
     45       94301-45     "The Samurai"                 10/09/94
     46       94302-46     "Line of Fire"                10/16/94
     47       94303-47     "The Revolutionary"           10/23/94
     48       94304-48     "The Cross of St. Antoine"    10/30/94
     49       94305-49     "Rite of Passage"             11/06/94
     50       94306-50     "Courage"                     11/13/94
     51       94307-51     "The Lamb"                    11/20/94
     52       94308-52     "Obsession"                   11/27/94
     53       94309-53     "Shadows"                     12/04/94
     54       94310-54     "Blackmail"                   12/11/94
     55       94311-55     "Vendetta"                    02/05/95
     56       94312-56     "They Also Serve"             02/12/95
     57       94313-57     "Blind Faith"                 02/19/95
     58       94314-58     "Song of the Executioner"     02/26/95
     59       94315-59     "Star-Crossed" *              03/05/95
     60       94316-60     "Methos"                      03/12/95
     61       94317-61     "Take Back the Night"         04/30/95
     62       94318-62     "Testimony"                   05/07/95
     63       94319-63     "Mortal Sins"                 05/14/95
     64       94320-64     "Reasonable Doubts"           05/21/95
     65       94321-65     "Finale, Part 1"              05/28/95
     66       94322-66     "Finale, Part 2"              06/04/95

        * Indicates the first of the "Paris Episodes" per season.

     Jack Butler
     Highlander Guru



... "You don't change when you're Immortal; you just live longer."
--- FMail 0.98a
 * Origin: Forethought BBS -=- Orlando FL -=- 407-277-7530 (1:363/309)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 19 of 384
 From : Jack Butler                         1:363/309       .pä 24 .àé 95 05:10
 To   : Todd Sullivan
 Subj : Stuff of TP, etc
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 Quoth Todd Sullivan, "Nevermore".

 TS> As long as we're discussing SF in various shows, what say you about
 TS> "MacGyver in the Old West" AKA "Legend".  Never watched it, but I
 TS> thought John DeLancie saying "Engage!" in one of the promos was a
 TS> hoot, along with the various "anachronisms" that made their
 TS> appearances, ie. that hang glider.

     Haven't actually seen it yet, though I have been planning to.

     Jack Butler


... "Even the other goblin races shun the swamp goblins..."
--- FMail 0.98a
 * Origin: Forethought BBS -=- Orlando FL -=- 407-277-7530 (1:363/309)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 20 of 384
 From : Patrick Long                        1:271/380       .pä 24 .àé 95 08:02
 To   : Dave Whittier
 Subj : COMPUTER LOTTERY SCAM...
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12  94-0096

DW-=>PL>   Hello, my name is Dave Rhodes.  Two years ago I was broke, my car wa
  -=>PL>repossessed, you've heard my story hundreds of times....

DW-=>Well done, Patrick!  Hope people get the hint...

Wish I could take credit for writing it, but it's someone else's work.
I just like tossing it out as a response to those types of schemes.  8)

... Next to the originator of a good sentence is the first quoter of it.

--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12
 * Origin: The Gondor BBS, member of Fidonet, the best RPG's!  (1:271/380.0)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 21 of 384
 From : Kay Shapero                         1:102/524       .pä 24 .àé 95 08:02
 To   : Scott Gates
 Subj : B5 CATCH-UP
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <May 22 16:32>, Scott Gates (1:2602/320) wrote to Kay Shapero:

KS=>ascii text (archived by ARJ) for file request or download.  The
KS=>system is Brian & Wendy's BBS (1:163/598).  I've got a current
KS=>list around here that posted recently if you want a copy.

 SG>Do you know how I could get these from internet ftp?

FTP doesn't do f'req; but I believe there's someone on the internet picking
these things up for ftp.  Ask John Kahane at Brian & Wendy's - he ought to know.


--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 22 of 384
 From : Phill Ash                           1:275/160       .pä 24 .àé 95 08:05
 To   : Mark Jones
 Subj : Vorlon Immortality
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE 1.11+

>MY theory is that lurking inside that encounter suit is none other
>than JAMES T. KIRK.
>My reasoning:
>1.  EVERYONE knows who James T. Kirk is.  And Delenn said that
>       *everyone* would recognize Kosh without his encounter suit.
>2.  Kosh is one of the last remaining "Old Ones".  Sounds like the
>       ST:TOS cast/crew to me....
>3.  Kosh has battled universe-threatening Evil (tm) before, and lived
>    to fight them again.  James T. Kirk made a *career* out of stopping
>    the unstoppable foe, saving the universe and generally being A Hero
>Who else *could* it be?

        Artoo Deetoo
   Proof?
   1.  Obi-wan told Yoda that there was "another".  He wasn't referring
        Leia, as she'd received no training.  Besides, you don't think
        that it was actually *Yoda* hwo lifted the X-Wing out of the
        swamp, do you?

   2.   Listen to Kosh's speech.  Clearly some form of translation
        device (probably salvaged from C3PO's carcass) has been
        installed in the encounter suit.

   3.   With a suitable power-supply and enough spare-parts, Kosh/R2
        would understand the concept of immortality.
I rest my case.



Your pal:  PhlAsh
... IKE Locksmiths:  If we can't open it...It ain't locked!
---
 * PhlAshMail 1.0 *
~~~ ReneWave v1.00.wb2 (unregistered)
--- GEcho 1.11+
 * Origin: * The Beast's Lair * (804)425-1618 * Va Beach VA * (1:275/160)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 23 of 384
 From : Patrick Long                        1:271/380       .pä 24 .àé 95 08:08
 To   : Steven Wesen
 Subj : Re: Computer Lottery scam
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12  94-0096

SW-=>I read your post but I wanted to make my position clear on any of
  -=>these type  of scams because this post is for Science Fiction and

Science fiction and fantasy as well - and I think those that believe
those scams will work are living in a fantasy world.  8)

  -=>I did not mean to come in with a flamethrower but I have seen to
  -=>many of those scams to not remain silent.

Funny, but I don't seem  recall seeing you blaze way at person who
posted the scam itself, just at the parody I posted.  You've made an
excellent impression.

Anyway, consider the thread dropped.

... Steven's playing his oboe with just one reed.

--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12
 * Origin: The Gondor BBS, member of Fidonet, the best RPG's!  (1:271/380.0)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 24 of 384
 From : Frank Eva                           1:154/750       .pä 24 .àé 95 08:12
 To   : Rumble
 Subj : Earth 2/So Long
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: FastEcho 1.42.b9 8060
R "Spielberg used to own Earth 2 but when he saw the ratings for it he
R "just smiled and slowly walked away.

Earth 2 is still produced by Amblin Entertainment, though, so he didn't
walk very far! :-)

--- CMPQwk 1.42-R2 #145 ---
Computer, microwave decks 5-10 until piping hot.  BEEP!

---
 * Origin: *YOPS ]I[* 2.2 Gig * RA/FD/FE RADist * Milwaukee, WI (1:154/750)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 25 of 384
 From : Frank Eva                           1:154/750       .pä 24 .àé 95 08:12
 To   : Tom Huber
 Subj : ST: The Original Series
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: FastEcho 1.42.b9 8060
TH "sharing the wealth of the acting opportunities. Of course, Nichelle
TH "Nichols got basically shafted in the movies as far as roles were
TH "concerned. At least during the series (including the animated
TH "series), she had more opportunities.

And yet at one time, she felt she was being shafted in ST:TOS, too! In
fact, she said in William Shatner's Star Trek Memories, that she was
ready to quit the series and that it was only because of something
Martin Luther King told her that made her stick it out...

TH "There was a least one episode
TH "in the animated series where she led a team to rescue Kirk and
TH "company.

I'll bet that made Ms. Nichols feel real good! :-)

TH "by the transporter into two distinct personalities.

TH "FE>What did you think when the writers of Voyager basically
TH "did the same thing with Lt. Torres?

TH "Hm. I missed that one. I'll have to watch for it during the summer
TH "reruns.

The episode is called "Faces", but it could just as easily have been
called "feces", because it was such a blatant re-use of previous
material...

TH "Speaking of reruns, I find that I actually enjoy rewatching old
TH "Voyager episodes... Now that says something. I found watching an old
TH "NG episode (that I'd seen before) to be boring and lifeless...

I expect my 10 tapes of ST:TNG to get lots of use during the dreary TV
days of summer. I actually watched ST:V's "Cathexis" again last night
(to make sure I wanted to keep a copy) and really enjoyed it. Since
then, however, the episodes weren't worth watching the first time, had
there been anything better to watch during UPN's time slot for ST:V...

---
 * Origin: *YOPS ]I[* 2.2 Gig * RA/FD/FE RADist * Milwaukee, WI (1:154/750)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 26 of 384
 From : Frank Eva                           1:154/750       .pä 24 .àé 95 08:12
 To   : Michelle Willey
 Subj : VOYAGER NOSE DIVING?
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: FastEcho 1.42.b9 8060
MW "I got to admit it doesn't bother me much if I miss an episode.
MW "However, I like the character of Neelix. He injects a bit of humor
MW "and common sense into an otherwise unexceptional show. Likewise the
MW "doctor. The stories themselves do seem to be same ole, same ole.

I wouldn't complain about Neelix if he didn't seem to always be employed
as Barclay was in TNG. Of all the characters, I find the holo-doc the
most interesting. Perhaps it's because he seems to be more of an "adult"
(even though he's probably quite childlike when it comes to
understanding the human condition) than the rest of the crew who seem to
be fresh out of the academy and just barely beyond puberty. I really
dislike how demographics is having such a profound effect on TV...

---
 * Origin: *YOPS ]I[* 2.2 Gig * RA/FD/FE RADist * Milwaukee, WI (1:154/750)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 27 of 384
 From : Frank Eva                           1:154/750       .pä 24 .àé 95 08:12
 To   : All
 Subj : Tekwar Cancelled!
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: FastEcho 1.42.b9 8060
GW "CREATION REVIEW 1995:  THE TROUBLE WITH R'NOLD!
GW "By GARY L. WARREN
GW "While USA Network has canceled TEKWAR, a Canadian network is
GW "considering producing more episodes.

Hmmm... I must be a prophet! :-) A couple weeks ago, after noticing we
were not getting any new episodes, I commented here that it was as if
USA had cancelled the series without telling anyone!

While the whole idea of Tekwar was a bit like reinventing police story,
the series was getting good toward the end. I especially liked the ep in
which Lt. Winger was in danger of not being allowed to recharge his
circuits (effectively killing him, if that term could ever apply to a
robot). I guess we should have known something was wrong when they wrote
Jake's partner out of the series and replaced him with an attractive
female...

I simply can not believe that Tekwar wasn't one of USA's bigger draws!
With all of their crummy B movies, can they actually be so picky? What's
more likely is that Tekwar just cost more than it was bringing in. This
does not bode well for original sci-fi on TV, if a cable company like
USA can't make money on it...

---
 * Origin: *YOPS ]I[* 2.2 Gig * RA/FD/FE RADist * Milwaukee, WI (1:154/750)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 28 of 384
 From : Frank Eva                           1:154/750       .pä 24 .àé 95 08:12
 To   : Earl Green
 Subj : SLIDERS SEASON FINALE
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: FastEcho 1.42.b9 8060
EG "  the possibility of John Rhys-Davies departing.  This show's in
EG "  trouble.

I really am a prophet! :-) When Sliders first aired, I commented that
JRD was the most likely to move on, because of his distinguished movie
career. I just couldn't see him sticking around in a weekly TV show when
he could be doing stuff like Indiana Jones 4...

--- CMPQwk 1.42-R2 #145 ---
I yam Popeye of Borg... Prepares to be askimilgrated!

---
 * Origin: *YOPS ]I[* 2.2 Gig * RA/FD/FE RADist * Milwaukee, WI (1:154/750)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 29 of 384
 From : Frank Eva                           1:154/750       .pä 24 .àé 95 08:12
 To   : Gary Warren
 Subj : Sliders
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: FastEcho 1.42.b9 8060
GW "        In spite of the simplistic storylines and the program's
GW "basic hokiness,
GW "lottery for terrible television programs, this episode would be a
GW "sure winner.  MY grade for this ep would be a D-minus, with a
GW "C-minus for the overall season.         And to think I dismissed
GW "Fox's VR5 for being TOO esoteric and hard to follow!

I personally think Sliders was a much better show than VR5, and would
have made a better lead-in for The X-Files. I hope it does survive, but
it probably won't be quite the same if Quinn dies...

---
 * Origin: *YOPS ]I[* 2.2 Gig * RA/FD/FE RADist * Milwaukee, WI (1:154/750)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 30 of 384
 From : Frank Eva                           1:154/750       .pä 24 .àé 95 08:12
 To   : Mark Jones
 Subj : Who is Kosh, really?
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: FastEcho 1.42.b9 8060
MJ "3.  Kosh has battled universe-threatening Evil (tm) before, and
MJ "lived to fight them again.  James T. Kirk made a *career* out of
MJ "stopping the unstoppable foe, saving the universe and generally
MJ "being A Hero (tm).

MJ "Who else *could* it be?

Flash Gordon... :-)

---
 * Origin: *YOPS ]I[* 2.2 Gig * RA/FD/FE RADist * Milwaukee, WI (1:154/750)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 31 of 384
 From : Steven Wesen                        1:271/236       .pä 24 .àé 95 09:52
 To   : Barry Blaes
 Subj : Re: SLIDERS SEASON FINALE
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE 1.11+
I feel that they might try to replace Quinn with 2 characters to help
split Quinn's personality .

Thedog is Quinn's loyalty and steafast friendship.

It is a Next Generation thing you wouldn't understand :)

Steve(Merlyn)

--- GEcho 1.11+
 * Origin: THE TIME MACHINE (804)599-6401 TRAVEL THE PORTALS! (1:271/236)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 32 of 384
 From : Karmin St.jean                      1:321/309       .pä 24 .àé 95 10:40
 To   : Chris Baugh
 Subj : Star Blazers
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 >JS> I believe the reference is to a holo-projection room on board
 >JS> the Yamato (I think that's the ships's name) in the
 >JS> Japanimation show "Starblazers." (Good series, IMO.)
 >
 > Gosh, that came on so many years ago I don't remember much about it
 > - but I do remember that I enjoyed the characteries, stories and
 > animation.  Around the same time there was also an animated Flash
 > Gordon series that I thought was really well done.

The original name of the series was Space Cruiser Yamato, but the ship was
renamed the Argo in Star Blazers. There were three series created, only two of
which "Quest for Iscandar" and "Battle Against the Comet Empire" were ever shown
on American TV. The third series, "The Bolar Wars" is available but was not
aired (at least not in wide syndication like the other two.)

Another series, often mistakenly called "G-Force" was known as "Battle of the
Planets" and was produced by Sandy Frank (that name we all keep seeing at the
beginning of all the REALLY bad movies on MST3K).

Tranzor Z is yet another anime serial that is not easy to find.
 (note, many of these may get a second chance at life this fall when the SciFi
Channel introduces it's new Saturday Morning Anime lineup!)

--- FLAME v1.1
 * Origin: Final Approach BBS - Spfld, MA (413)783-5853 (1:321/309)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 33 of 384
 From : Karmin St.jean                      1:321/309       .pä 24 .àé 95 10:45
 To   : Dave Whittier
 Subj : Lotterys in the mail
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Okay, so I spelled it wrong. But look at it this way. It's a lottery, just the
same as scratching one of those tickets you buy at the store, and when you don't
win on those you don't get all upset. So, if you play a lottery and don't win,
then if you've only paid a dollar or two dollar or five dollars tops, then shrug
and get on with it. If, however, you were dumb enough to pay $20.00 or paid
$20.00 in good faith, which if you're smart enough to read this post is more
likely, then find the jerk who conned you out of it and beat the living
daylights out of him, or give him the Vulcan Neck Pinch (THERE! I mentioned
Vulcans, so now the message is on topic, or at least was for that sentence.)...
And now ,....back to our topic!

--- FLAME v1.1
 * Origin: Final Approach BBS - Spfld, MA (413)783-5853 (1:321/309)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 34 of 384
 From : Karmin St.jean                      1:321/309       .pä 24 .àé 95 10:51
 To   : Denis Lamy
 Subj : Q and DS9
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
DS9 couldn't even get Q right! On TNG at least Q took them places, DID things
with them. Acted like Q. On DS9 Q just sat around moping and all just because
Vash wouldn't go back to him. And He already had Amanda, so it's not like he
NEEDED the whiny little toad anyhow.
I always thought it would have been great if they'd returned five months later
instead of two years later and Vash was pregnant but no one knew if it was
Picard's or Q's.  Maybe she was. It's possible that Vash was carrying Q's child
but that Bashir didn't tell her because she was advanced enough that he assumed
she already knew. Wouldn't that be a surprise for ol' Q!
Let's see.. ways we can spice up DS9 a bit...

A second version of Q (still human from the time he was being punished) created
in a similar transporter accident to the one that created the second Riker,
joins the Maquis to help out Thomas Riker (and he and T.R. become close
friends.)

--- FLAME v1.1
 * Origin: Final Approach BBS - Spfld, MA (413)783-5853 (1:321/309)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 35 of 384
 From : Tony Trujillo                       1:280/9         .pä 24 .àé 95 11:08
 To   : Jack Butler
 Subj : Re: Sliders Continuity
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE 1.11+

 TT>> Not always...some shows just disappear off the face of the
 TT>> earth without the benefit of a "goodbye" show.
 JB>      Heard the word through Entertainment Weekly's show.  Sliders has
 JB>      been picked up for next season, and Jerry O'Connell is *still*
 JB>      going to be a regular.

Glad to see that they decided to give SLIDERS a chance as a
regular series on their line up. I haven't been too excited
by X-FILES since they decided to go for the "hack and slash"
audience.

 JB>      So yes, Quinn gets shot, but no, Quinn doesn't die.

I'd really like to see them do something interesting with
this plot line other than just having Quinn getting better
and sliding as if nothing had happened. If he was indeed
shot in the head I would think recuperation time would be
more than a few days.


... Don't crush that dwarf! Hand me the pliers!
--- Via Silver Xpress V4.02B03 SW01177
 * Origin: South of the River - Overland Park KS - (913)642-7907 V.* (1:280/9)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 36 of 384
 From : Tony Trujillo                       1:280/9         .pä 24 .àé 95 11:59
 To   : Frank Eva
 Subj : Re: SeaQuest Survives
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE 1.11+

 FE> I believe those characters who were deleted were all supposed to have
 FE> moved on to other jobs... Stacy Haiduk (her character) took a job as oil
 FE> freighter Captain, I seem to recall...

I remember there was some talk about it in one of the
episodes but at the time I think that's all it was.

 FE> Yes, he's become just another Wesley Crusher, always saving the day...

I guess that's what the "kids" want...


... BIO-GENETIX ENGINEERING LABS: "Playing God so you don't have to."
--- Via Silver Xpress V4.02B03 SW01177
 * Origin: South of the River - Overland Park KS - (913)642-7907 V.* (1:280/9)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 37 of 384
 From : John Kahane                         1:163/198.5     .pä 24 .àé 95 12:34
 To   : Jeff Hancock
 Subj : Vorlon Immortality
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
In a message of <Monday May 22 1995>, Jeff Hancock scribed:

                          SPOILER ALERT!!!
                            __________
                           / _________ \
                          / /         \ \
          ------------------------------------------------
         / ______________________________________________ \
        / /                                              \ \
       / /                                                \ \
       \ \                                                / /
         \ \                       ____________________ / /
           \ \                    l-------------------  /
             \ \                                    / /
             /   \                                /   \
            / / \  \               ____________ /  / \ \
           / /    \  \            l-----------   /    \ \
          / /      /   \                    /   \      \ \
         / /      /  /\  \                /  /\  \      \ \
         \ \_____/  /   \  \            /  /   \  \_____/ /
          \________/      \  \________/  /      \________/
                            \__________/

 JK> Of course, in the light of "In the Shadow of Z'ha'dum,"
 JK> JH>> How did Kosh have video footage (or whatever) of the
 JK> JH>> Icarus encounter to show Sheridan? Mental projection of
 JK> JH>> what he "knew" would have occurred?
 JK>> Nope.  I think we now know what happened during the little
 JK>> "encounter" that Kosh and Morden had way back in "Signs and
 JK>> Portents," when Kosh's encounter suit was damaged. <g>

 JH> Believe it or not, I thought about that.... but why wouldn't
 JH> Morden know too much about Kosh in return? Either seeing
 JH> through the damaged encounter suit, feeling him in his mind,
 JH> or just plain suspicion... if not Morden, then the Shadows
 JH> who were with him. Unless they were born after the wars and
 JH> the Shadows don't have any form of history, you'd think
 JH> they'd figure it out... unless they really believe all the
 JH> ancient ones left.

     Well, as was established in "In the Shadow of Z'ha'dum", the Shadows are an
ancient race, and existed before some of the other Ancient Ones came into
existence (including the Vorlons), but I don't think your bit about history is
the right one.  Kosh has obviously got some sort of protection, whether psionic
or something that the Ancient Ones have learned, about how to cloak themselves
from the Shadows knowing who they are, although "ItSoZ" also established that he
wears the encounter suit for the simple reason that it obscures him from sight.

     While the Shadows are always with Morden, as Delenn pointed out, I think
that it's possible Kosh may have surprised Morden in their encounter in "Signs
and Portents" to such a degree that he was able to rip the knowledge (or plunder
it) from Morden's mind before he came under attack by the Shadows that are
always with Morden (this latter point being a fact that Joe has confirmed over
on CompuServe).

 JK>> I think that Kosh took the memory of what happened when the
 JK>> Icarus landed on Z'ha'dum from Morden's mind...among other
 JK>> things. :)

 JH> But not everything was from Morden's POV...

     The vision of the events of the Icarus landing on Z'ha'dum were not all
from Morden's view, but it's also likely that a Shadow viewpoint was also part
of that - something perhaps that is part of Morden's mind now that he's a
servant.  It's also possible that the Shadows and their agents are
telepathically linked (I refuse to accept a hive-mind assumption for this), and
that Kosh took from Morden's mind a perspective from another of the Icarus crew
who also sided with the Shadows.

 JH> BTW, what do you think that was with Delenn saying she had
 JH> known about it for the past THREE years? Perhaps they told
 JH> her (or she read about) the Shadows upon her appointment to
 JH> ambassador? Couldn't be the Grey Council, since that was
 JH> long before.

     Actually the time of Valen and the Grey Council is about 1,000 years ago,
which fits in with the business of the last time that the Shadows tried to rise,
and were put down again by an alliance that included the Vorlons and the
Minbari.  As for Delenn's knowing about this for three years, well...there could
be all kinds of reasons for that.  I like to think that it would be part of the
wisdom passed down to the Religious caste members who join the Council. This
would certainly explain Neroon's ignorance of something this basic, which you'd
think he'd comment on.

 JK> JH>> And do you suppose the "conference" Talia referred to
 JK> JH>> during her first scene was the event covered in the B5
 JK> JH>> book _Voices_?
 JK>> That seems to make as much sense as anything else.  And it
 JK>> would be a reasonable assumption to make, based on Talia's
 JK>> comments about the "conference" mentioned in passing in the
 JK>> episode.

 JH> All she said about it was that "things were rather hectic".
 JH> How many conferences have you been to that were hectic without
 JH> what happened in _Voices_? ;)

     Hey, I just said that it seemed reasonable to me.  Besides, JMS said that
the books are canon and that they would be "incorporated" into the series
continuity.  Without making fans who've not read the first book feel like they'd
missed something, the reference is one that those fans who've read the book can
nod and smile at, while the rest of the fans aren't all that worried about it.
Speaking of the books, John Vornholt posted a message noting that the next book
in the series, his _Blood Oath_ (dealing with the Narns) won't be out until late
in the year. :(

     John
.....
A good bookshop is just a genteel Black Hole that knows how to read. (G!G!)

--- GoldED 2.41
 * Origin: JohnK's Point OS/2Warp - Ottawa, Ontario (1:163/198.5)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 38 of 384
 From : John Kahane                         1:163/198.5     .pä 24 .àé 95 12:47
 To   : Jeff Hancock
 Subj : Vorlon Immortality /2
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
In a message of <Monday May 22 1995>, Jeff Hancock scribed:

                          SPOILER ALERT!!!
                            __________
                           / _________ \
                          / /         \ \
          ------------------------------------------------
         / ______________________________________________ \
        / /                                              \ \
       / /                                                \ \
       \ \                                                / /
         \ \                       ____________________ / /
           \ \                    l-------------------  /
             \ \                                    / /
             /   \                                /   \
            / / \  \               ____________ /  / \ \
           / /    \  \            l-----------   /    \ \
          / /      /   \                    /   \      \ \
         / /      /  /\  \                /  /\  \      \ \
         \ \_____/  /   \  \            /  /   \  \_____/ /
          \________/      \  \________/  /      \________/
                            \__________/

 JK> JH>> And I'm still confused as how to anyone, especially
 JK> JH>> people who would know nothing of the "first ones", would
 JK> JH>> recognize Kosh as being one unless it was some universal
 JK> JH>> interracial
 JK>> There could be all sorts of things that could be asked here,
 JK>> Jeff. :)

 JH> Like?

     Well, I can't think of anything right off the top, Jeff...  But we don't
know all that much about some of the races, although there have been hints in
the medical episodes about physiologies and the like.  "Confessions and
Lamentations" had one of these as well, in a very sad context.  Brilliant story,
btw, and right up there with "Believers" as a Franklin episode.

 JK>> I suspect that a lot of this has to do with Kosh's earlier
 JK>> talk with Sheridan about teaching and preparing him "to fight
 JK>> legends."

 JH> Yes, but what legends exactly?

     The legends are the Shadows, obviously.  Since they are a race that was old
when the other Ancient races (such as the Vorlons) were young, it makes sense
they would be considered legends.  (JMS has also said the race that Catherine
Sakai encountered at Sigma 957 is another of these races, too...)

 JH> And how is it that every race (apparently) would have the
 JH> same exact legends?

     Not necessarily the same set of legends, Jeff.  G'Kar's reference work from
G'Quan is a religious text, one that is obviously not given much accreditation
(as we've seen so far), although the Kha'Ri seems to have paid it more attention
of late.  But stories are told late at night about all kinds of horrific things
in the past, and these are passed on as legends, myths, fables, that sort of
thing.  "Confessions and Lamentations" has another good example of this, that
the Markab doctor tells Franklin.  Watch for it, and I won't spoil your
enjoyment of that episode again.

 JH> I don't recall any Earth legends involving giant spiders, for
 JH> one... unless this is another LOTR jab. <g>

     While it's possible, and I suspect that Joe would disclaim it, I don't
think so.  The Shadows that we saw in "ItSoZ" didn't appear to be spider-like to
me at all.

 JK>> Given the origins of the Vorlons, the Shadows, and perhaps
 JK>> the race whose ship Catherine Sakai encountered at Sigma 957
 JK>> (as JMS has hinted at

 JH> Ah yes, I don't think we ever finished that discussion. The
 JH> Logbook writer seems to think that was the first appearance
 JH> of the Shadows, but you say JMS disagrees?

     Not disagrees, totally different.  Joe says that the race that Catherine
encountered at Sigma 957 was another of the Ancient Ones, a race that is no
longer concerned with affairs of the little races from its time.  He's also said
that some stuff will be clarified about this race...whatever that meant. :)

 JK>> I wouldn't be surprised to find something totally predictable
 JK>> underneath the Vorlon encounter suit.

 JH> Like what, an angel? That's not universal even on Earth... I
 JH> suspect everyone with any contact of civilization would
 JH> recognize one, but that's still not "Every one". I suppose
 JH> he'll look like the classic cliche of God?

     Nope, not like God or an angel.  That's been the consensus on some of the
B5 echoes and newsgroups, and to be honest with you, I don't think that JMS
would do something like that.  I suppose it's possible, given the emphasis on
souls and stuff that we've seen in the series to this point...

 JK>> Btw, have you seen "Knives" yet?  Interesting episode,
 JK>> and one

 JH> Yep. Just once, though... haven't dubbed it, and missed the
 JH> re-airing.

     I'm not sure what you mean about the dubbing of the episode, but never
mind...

 JH> BTW, I'm not sure B5 will really make it in syndication...
 JH> something I keep meaning to bring up but never do is that
 JH> stations have this nasty habit of cutting bits on reruns, and
 JH> while it may not matter much for your average sitcom, just
 JH> think how it would affect B5's story.

     B5 is not the same kind of series as ST and the like, and therefore I think
the syndication of such a series would be more difficult.  I like to think that
the popularity of the series, and an interest in seeing the entire run of the
series (depending on how long it stays on the air) re-air depends on other
factors.  But let's face it...B5 has been on the air barely two years, and
that's not long enough to have the show start airing in syndie.

 JH> Reason I mention this is that I did catch the station showing
 JH> it here cutting a bit on the second showing from the original
 JH> twice;

     This is something that I've noticed on the local station here in Ottawa,
but it's not something that the FOX network has done at all.  One of the reasons
why I watch the FOX episode and tape that one, rather than the local one.  Even
with the horrible, midnight on Tuesday time slot. :(

     John
.....
The significant owl hoots in the night. (G!G!)

--- GoldED 2.41
 * Origin: JohnK's Point OS/2Warp - Ottawa, Ontario (1:163/198.5)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 39 of 384
 From : Brion Lienhart                      1:213/700.2     .pä 24 .àé 95 12:53
 To   : Todd Sullivan
 Subj : Vorlon Immortality
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On Tue May 23, Todd Sullivan said to Chris Carter:

CC >A fellow on rec.arts.sf.tv.babylon5 proposed that Kosh is
CC >actually a large sentient Big Mac.

 -TS>AAARRRRRGH!  "Run awaaaaayyy!" :)

It's ambassador McCheese. And the Vorlon Burgler.


--- QM v1.31
 * Origin: Ministry of Peace - Carson City, NV (1:213/700.2)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 40 of 384
 From : John Kahane                         1:163/198.5     .pä 24 .àé 95 13:02
 To   : Scott Gates
 Subj : B5 Catch-Up
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Monday May 22 1995>, Scott Gates wrote to Kay Shapero:

 KS>> For those on the net, John Kahane has been doing detailed
 KS>> synopses of each episode, posting them to the Babylon 5 echo
 KS>> and also making them available ascii text (archived by ARJ)
 KS>> for file request or download.  The system is Brian & Wendy's
 KS>> BBS (1:163/598).  I've got a current list around here
 KS>> that posted recently if you want a copy.

 SG> Do you know how I could get these from internet ftp?

     Unless someone's posted them up to the internet sites, as far as I'm aware
they're not available on the Internet side of things.  I could be wrong, but it
would be nice if the creator of said files was made aware of these things. :)

     John
.....
Moules (n.):  A game of skill and dexterity, involving tortoises. (G!G!)

--- GoldED 2.41
 * Origin: JohnK's Point OS/2Warp - Ottawa, Ontario (1:163/198.5)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 41 of 384
 From : John Kahane                         1:163/198.5     .pä 24 .àé 95 13:04
 To   : Scott Gates
 Subj : SeaQuest
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Monday May 22 1995>, Scott Gates wrote to John Kahane:

 FE>> Same goes for the first season of SeaQuest.

 JK>> Yep, same here.  Pity what they did with the series in
 JK>> the second seas *sigh* :(

 SG> Yeah, with only a few exceptions, SeaQuest's second season
 SG> Sucks.  The babes ain't bad though.

     Frankly, based on this post and a couple of others that I've seen from you,
you sound sexist when it comes to some of these sf series.  If the "babes" are
why you and a lot of the audience are watching this stuff, it's no wonder why
there's such a turn-around on sf series on tv.

     The *stories* in SEAQUEST's second season are what were pathetic, not the
characters.  The characters, particularly the telepath/doctor and the Dagger,
could have been made very interesting, but as usual the series concentrated on
the wrong things.  SEAQUEST lost its edge, its driving force, when the producer
decided to go with science fantasy as opposed to science fiction and an
ecological mind set.  Stacy Haiduk's commander in the first season was a
terrific character, because she was a *strong* female role model and because she
had an interesting past.  The character in the second season, such as Edward
Kerr's (can't remember his name), Henderson, Piccolo, and some of the others
were...boring and undeveloped.  Personally, I don't understand *why* the series
was renewed for a third year...

     John
.....
You had to hand it to the Patrician. If you didn't, he sent men to come and take
it away. (G!G!)

--- GoldED 2.41
 * Origin: JohnK's Point OS/2Warp - Ottawa, Ontario (1:163/198.5)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 42 of 384
 From : John Kahane                         1:163/198.5     .pä 24 .àé 95 13:11
 To   : Barry Blaes
 Subj : Not SLIDERS
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Sunday May 21 1995>, Barry Blaes wrote to Frank Swarbrick:

 BB> If you or anyone else wishes to help keep the show on the
 BB> air you can send via the Internet a mail message to
 BB> "sliders@delphi.com".

 BB> Tell them you like the show and want to see them renew the show.

     Personally, I'm more concerned at this point with keeping BABYLON 5 on the
air.  And getting to see the last four episodes of Season Two before October,
whereas the Europeans are going to be seeing them any time now.

     John
.....
"If anyone ever sets fire to this city, it's going to be *me*." - Captain Vimes
(G!G!)

--- GoldED 2.41
 * Origin: JohnK's Point OS/2Warp - Ottawa, Ontario (1:163/198.5)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 43 of 384
 From : Holly Sullivan                      1:363/110       .pä 24 .àé 95 14:27
 To   : Jeff Young
 Subj : Re: Red Dwarf
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
In a message to All <05-20-95 13:42> Jeff Young wrote:

JY> The Red Dwarf International Echo is available to all who wish to
JY> recieve it.
JY> This echo is not on the Zone 1 backbone yet, but with your help it
JY> can be.

Wish it was backboned... (sigh)


JY> We even have our own resident Holly
JY> (well, not really but I thought it would add to the advert).


(EVIL GRIN)  Be *very* careful what you ask for... you just might get it...

:)---Holly---<--<-@

--- QuickBBS 2.80 GoldBase (Zeta-1)
 * Origin: The Bear's Den BBS  Winter Park, FL USA  (407)629-6458 (1:363/110)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 44 of 384
 From : Bruce Baugh                         1:105/290.50    .pä 24 .àé 95 15:34
 To   : Chris Carter
 Subj : Kosh's Karaoke machine
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On (23 May 95) Chris Carter wrote to All...

 CC> Before Garibaldi can answer Kosh says, "A moment of perfect
 CC> beauty," and proceeds out of the ballpark. Garibaldi and
 CC> Lennier follow silently, with cheesy grins on their faces.
 CC> Sheridan, looking perplexed, asks the computer to initiate
 CC> batting practice.

Attention, Citizen! Report to the nearest Food Reclamation Center
immediately!

... OPEN THE REST ROOM DOORS, HAL. HAL! Oh, never mind.....

--- PPoint 1.92
 * Origin: Bruce's Cleverly Named Point (1:105/290.50)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 45 of 384
 From : Earl Green                          1:3822/1        .pä 24 .àé 95 16:32
 To   : Frank Swarbrick
 Subj : SLIDERS SEASON FINALE
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

FS>After only eight episodes two of the actors want to ditch the show
FS>already?  Sheesh!  So are you saying Quinn really is dead?  I find that
FS>hard to believe.

  I don't know about Quinn for sure, but Rhys-Davies said in TV Guide
  that he would be out of there if there wasn't a greater commitment to
  the sci-fi aspects of the series.
     As recently as a fax sent yesterday, Fox still considers Sliders to
  be a viable and renewable property.  I'll keep an eye on further
  developments.

FS>Anyway, weren't you the one who dissed the pilot movie so much a few
FS>months ago?  Have you changed your mind?

  I got to really like the show with "The Last Day."  I still can't
  profess a liking for the pilot, but the weekly installments were
  getting better and better.  If it's gone, I will be sorry to see it
  go.  (Heck, I even got to like Quinn, quite a major achievement
  considering my initial opinion of him! <G>)
        e
---
 * SLMR 2.0 * Forty laps around the cargo bay.  Start running.  Now.

--- QScan/PCB v1.17b / 01-0162
 * Origin: Jackalope Junction  501-785-5381 Ft Smith AR (1:3822/1)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 46 of 384
 From : Kay Shapero                         1:102/524       .pä 24 .àé 95 16:45
 To   : Jeff Kovach
 Subj : SLIDERS SEASON FINALE
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <May 23 14:03>, Jeff Kovach (1:114/318) wrote to Mark Jones:

 JK>Or the idiots could cancel the show, like I read in this
 JK>morning's paper.

Rats!  That was one of the two shows on TV that I was making a point to watch
every week (the other being Babylon 5 - I sure hope IT survives).

--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 47 of 384
 From : Tony Limbert                        1:2215/420      .pä 24 .àé 95 16:59
 To   : Kay Shapero
 Subj : SLIDERS SEASON FINALE
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
While summoning Cthulhu, I overheard Kay say :

 KS> Hanged if I know (be it noted that that particular rumor seems to be
 KS> chronic among tv shows everytime it looks like there might be a cast
 KS> shakeup). Or care frankly - the character I least wish to see vanish
 KS> from  the lineup is the Professor. I happen to like John Rhys-Davies.

You mean Pavarotti. :)

TL





... Beware Mortal! Thou art crunchy, and good with ketchup!
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12


--- PCBoard (R) v15.21/M 2
 * Origin: New Visions, PCBoard 15.21, Kent/Ohio 216-677-1040/9812 (1:2215/420)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 48 of 384
 From : Jeff Kovach                         1:114/318       .pä 24 .àé 95 18:50
 To   : Jack Butler
 Subj : Sliders Continuity
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On 20 May 95  05:56:01 Jack Butler wrote...

JB>      Heard the word through Entertainment Weekly's show.  Sliders has
JB> been picked up for next season, and Jerry O'Connell is *still* going
JB> to be a regular.      So yes, Quinn gets shot, but no, Quinn doesn't
JB> die.

To which Jeff Kovach replies...

Seeing that FOX announced that they cancelled the show, is it possible that
someone else picked it up or that it might go into syndication?

--- RATSoft/FIDO v1.12 [JetMail 0.99beta9]
 * Origin: STAR*LINX BBS - Mesa, AZ - (602)464-4817 (1:114/318)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 49 of 384
 From : Kay Shapero                         1:102/524       .pä 24 .àé 95 19:14
 To   : Chris Carter
 Subj : Kosh's Karaoke machine
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <May 23 04:01>, Chris Carter (1:105/302.23) wrote to All:

 CC>Before Garibaldi can answer Kosh says, "A moment of perfect
 CC>beauty,"
 CC>and proceeds out of the ballpark.  Garibaldi and Lennier follow
 CC>silently, with cheesy grins on their faces.  Sheridan, looking

OOOK!  Can I crosspost that to FILK?  Please?

--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 50 of 384
 From : Rumble                              1:163/436       .pä 24 .àé 95 20:41
 To   : Steven Wesen
 Subj : Re: SeaQuest Survives
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Remeber the explosion on the alien ship was in the middle. They were on the
outside, so they may survive. I know that some of them are goind to plus the
seaQuest can reapare a hole in itself. It has bioginetic skin or something.

--- Maximus 2.02
 * Origin: Coven's Den (613)746-3584 = 650+ Echoes & 4.3+ Gigs (1:163/436)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 51 of 384
 From : Rumble                              1:163/436       .pä 24 .àé 95 20:43
 To   : Robert Lidgren
 Subj : EARTH 2/SO LONG
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
didint you hear? seaQuest was moved to wednsdays at eight. Besides 90210 ll the
networks pulled their "powerhouse" shows from that time slot. They must be
afraid of seaQuest or something.

--- Maximus 2.02
 * Origin: Coven's Den (613)746-3584 = 650+ Echoes & 4.3+ Gigs (1:163/436)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 52 of 384
 From : Rumble                              1:163/436       .pä 24 .àé 95 20:46
 To   : John Kahane
 Subj : SeaQuest
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Piccalo is obiously seaQuest's Quark. I think he's hilarious. I wonder waht the
plots will be like next year. I think they need a mix. Some science plots to
keep the scince fiction aspect up and some fantasy/action plots to keep another
part of the audience. You have to admit that seaQuest has more action than any
other sci-fi show.

--- Maximus 2.02
 * Origin: Coven's Den (613)746-3584 = 650+ Echoes & 4.3+ Gigs (1:163/436)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 53 of 384
 From : Steven Skaggs                       1:3608/250      .pä 24 .àé 95 22:02
 To   : Steve Martin
 Subj : Re: Star Wars
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12  94-2198

 -=> Quoting Steve Martin to Steven Skaggs <=-

 SS> Well, I think he's had a basic idea for the rest of the movies since
 SS> he wrote the originals. He has stated several times over the past few
 SS> years that Episode I will be out sometime before the end of the 20th
 SS> century.  Why would he lie about it?

 SM> He already has.  Dates have been given before...

 When did Lucas give a specific date on when the new movies would definately
 be out? I've heard dates before too but usually from other sources...




... I am Perot of Borg: You will be assimilated with a giant sucking sound
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12
 * Origin: Double Springs BBS Panama City, FL 904-784-6336  (1:3608/250.0)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 54 of 384
 From : Steven Skaggs                       1:3608/250      .pä 24 .àé 95 22:06
 To   : Bruce Baugh
 Subj : Re: Star Wars
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12  94-2198

 -=> Quoting Bruce Baugh to Steven Skaggs <=-

 BB> On (21 May 95) Steven Skaggs wrote to Bruce Baugh...

 SS> Lucas himself said the first one will be released 'Before the
 SS> year 2000'. I don't see any reason for him to lie about it.

 BB> I don't think he's lying. He _has_ publicly made projections that
 BB> didn't work out, in the past. Optimism is powerful, and can lead one
 BB> astray. That's why I'll start really believing in the new movies
 BB> when I see solid steps being taken toward getting them actually
 BB> made.

 Well, I wouldn't be surprised if they didn't come out on-time so to speak
 but I would be surprised if they never came out at all. Lucas could always
 change his mind I suppose.

 BB> I _do_ take a certain encouragement from things Barbara Hambly and
 BB> Michael Kube-McDowell have said on GEnie. Both of them got the
 BB> definite idea that their Star Wars novels (and everyone else's) are
 BB> part of a reasonably carefully timed schedule. The studio being
 BB> willing to spend the money on the books shows that at least someone
 BB> takes it seriously.

 I think all licenses for the books and all other Star Wars related material
 expire in '96 or '97. Another indication that he has plans. He has also
 forbidden authors from using certain things in the novels, so I understand.


... Shh! Be vewy qwiewet!  I'm hunting wuntime ewwors.
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12
 * Origin: Double Springs BBS Panama City, FL 904-784-6336  (1:3608/250.0)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 55 of 384
 From : Richard Yamagata                    1:203/955       .åò 25 .àé 95 02:49
 To   : Jeff Hancock
 Subj : B5: Bear Facts
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

JH> I liked it... but what exactly was there to say? ;-)
JH> and wondered every time how it appeared so quickly out of nowhere (if
JH> you're approaching an unknown piece of debris, shouldn't you go
JH> slowly enough to see it before hitting it?), how they manage to get a
JH> cockpit coverin that's strong enough to protect against random debris yet
JH> sounds just like plastic when something hits it, and why the bear slid
JH> off to the side the way it did as if wind was blowing it off.

All very fascinating questions Jeff, there is enough here to start 3 or 4
threads.  And, this all came from one sequence in Babylon 5!

JH> There must be a specialized set of automated drones that go
JH> around collecting debris from space combat around the station,

Well, at least here I think it is safe to say that this must be one of the
functions of the maintenance bots.  A lot of them seemed to be flying around out
there in the "And now for a word..." episode.  Thanks for your deep analysis.
Ry

---
 * Origin: Dynasoft 916-753-8788  3Gig C C++ Everyone (1:203/955)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 56 of 384
 From : Richard Yamagata                    1:203/955       .åò 25 .àé 95 03:12
 To   : John Kahane
 Subj : B5: ItSoZ Thoughts
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
* In a message originally to Kay Shapero, John Kahane said:

JK> In a message of <Wednesday May 17 1995>, Kay Shapero
JK> scribed:

JK>                           SPOILER ALERT!!!
JK>                             __________
JK>                            / _________ \
JK>                           / /         \ \
JK>           ------------------------------------------------
JK>          / ______________________________________________ \
JK>         / /                                              \ \
JK>        / /                                                \
JK> \
JK>        \ \                                                /
JK> /
JK>          \ \                       ____________________ / /
JK>            \ \                    l-------------------  /
JK>              \ \                                    / /
JK>              /   \                                /   \
JK>             / / \  \               ____________ /  / \ \
JK>            / /    \  \            l-----------   /    \ \
JK>           / /      /   \                    /   \      \ \
JK>          / /      /  /\  \                /  /\  \      \ \
JK>          \ \_____/  /   \  \            /  /   \  \_____/ /
JK>           \________/      \  \________/  /      \________/
JK>                             \__________/

First off, I would like to say that I like your use of the Psi-Corp emblem,
because my son gets kick out of seeing it scroll on to the screen.

JK> series but very, very confused.  Then there is "Knives,"
JK> which was a throwaway episode to me, except for the business
JK> with Londo and his old friend and the revelation of where
JK> the mental force that had invaded Sheridan's mind had come
JK> from.

I do not want to seem hyper-critical here or nit-picking, but what else was
there in this episode besides these 2 plot lines?  There was that itsy-bitsy
sequence about that goverment department of peace, straight out of James Orwell,
but I have to say your 2 plot lines was the episode.  I found it interesting
that JMS patterned the Centauri culture in this episode after Renassiance (yes I
can't spell) Italy.

JK> arises... Someone obviously knew what kind of poison to use
JK> on Kosh, since the ancient one in the suit should not be
JK> known to the universe in general.  Whoever was behind this
JK> *knew* how to kill the not-Vorlon in the suit.  Assuming
JK> that the whole poisoning business wasn't faked to begin
JK> with.

Actually, this is not surprising, if it was not faked as you point out.  It was
made clear that the Minbari know the Vorlons and fought along side the Vorlons a
1000 years before B5's time against the Shadows.  It would seem to me if you
fight along side someone, you would learn how they die.  I am sure that the
Shadows know how to destroy the Vorlons and vice versa.

On the other hand, even Sinclair wondered in one of the episodes if the
poisoning was no faked.  What I got from that episode is that Sinclair wondered
if it was not all some plot by Kosh to garner understanding of humans to place
them in crisis.  Kosh got to interact with that Psi-corp psychic -- and he went
to great lengths to examine the current psychic with that cyborg.
It is obvious from "In the shadow..." that psychics will be important in
locating Shadows from that "passing in the corridor sequence."  That may be part
of what JMS was building up to with all this fascination of Kosh's with
psychics. Ry

---
 * Origin: Dynasoft 916-753-8788  3Gig C C++ Everyone (1:203/955)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 57 of 384
 From : Richard Yamagata                    1:203/955       .åò 25 .àé 95 03:24
 To   : Brian Henderson
 Subj : B5 Ripoff: Ds9
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
* In a message originally to Jakc Butler, Brian Henderson said:

BH> No kidding.  I didn't say otherwise.  I did say, however,
BH> that B5 has a higher purpose than *JUST* making a quick buck.

I do not know if this is true or not, but I would like to think that it is true
for B5.  From the amount of energy that JMS expends by posting on GEnie and CIS,
I believe that B5 means much more to him than a meal ticket.  My son
is waiting for his B5 micro-machines, but from what I garner from JMS posts, it
seems JMS finds this type of marketing, demeaning.

BH> out but that's not the issue, is it?  For Paramount and the
BH> makers of Star Trek, money is the biggest issue. For Warner, it quite
BH> possibly might be.

All I know is that from looking at the Nielsens, the Paramount Network's success
is all owed to ST Voyager.  I think that the ST Voyager Q&A was a cheap ploy to
get Voyager fans to sit through hours of vapid programming just to find the Q&A
sequence.  I think this supports your arguement about "selling grandma."  As for
Warner, their network ratings are lower than Fox and Paramount.  How much lower
and non-profitable can you get?  It may be a blessing that B5 is syndicated an
not a Warner Network offering.  Ry

---
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 Msg  : 58 of 384
 From : Richard Yamagata                    1:203/955       .åò 25 .àé 95 03:37
 To   : Frank Eva
 Subj : B5 VS ST
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

FE> The phrase "worthy undertaking" seemed to connote socially
FE> redeeming values. IMO, I do believe B5 has these, but more importantly
FE> to me than socially redeeming values is "entertainment value", which B5
FE> has by the truckload.

In that regard, Babylon 5 has won an Award for Quality Television.  I think you
are correct in that there is a lot of entertainment value in B5.  I still
find it interesting that this is the only series that I am motivated to record
and save.

On the other hand, it may not be surprising.  That long narrative by Delenn
about the Shadows, the First Ones, the Vorlons, drove me MAD!!!  I played that
sequence over and over -- TRYING TO FIGURE OUT WHAT MIRA WAS MUMBLING.  It is
rediculous that she could not ennunciate better.  I do not think it was a
directional ploy to heighten suspense.

The only thing that let me understand what Mira muffed was a transcript of that
part of the episode.  I think that this narrative was as critical to the
B5 plot line as the dialog between Sheridan and Kosh about "understanding."

As always, it is good posting with you Frank.  Ry

---
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 Msg  : 59 of 384
 From : Richard Yamagata                    1:203/955       .åò 25 .àé 95 03:40
 To   : Frank Eva
 Subj : B5 Catch-Up
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

FE> RY someone should do a paperback serialization of the B5 episodes,
FE> RY in the same vein as the TOS books by James Blish.
FE> This would be nice but it would require a company like Simon & Schuster
FE> to envision a profit for such a series of books. I personally think
FE> there are few publishers who would consider such a series
FE> profitable at this early stage, with B5 still a somewhat unproven
FE> commodity...

You are right about this.  To make the point more poignant for my son, "where
are the micro-machines?"

---
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 Msg  : 60 of 384
 From : Richard Yamagata                    1:203/955       .åò 25 .àé 95 04:03
 To   : FRANK SWARBRICK
 Subj : B5 TALK
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

FS> but than neither should Mira Furlan (Delenn).  In fact,
FS> she's probably my least favorite character.

I think that I am starting to get disenchanted with Delenn.  Her character has
gone from malevolent in the pilot to a wimp after emerging from the Chrysalis. I
am thoroughly disgusted with her mumbling the crucial tail in "In the Shadow..."
I have to say that I like her character better bald.

FS> times.  (In Thompson's case I think it's more the character than the
FS> actor, though.  She was excellant in a Quantum Leap episode I saw.)

Thinking about your words, you are probably right.  In most of the episodes she
is just a prop.  Only in a few episodes have I felt close to her character.
Actually, only in 2 episodes have I liked what they did with her. There was the
Iron Heart episode and there was the episode with her ex-husband on board.  In
all actuality, I think I do not like her character.  A good part of that has to
do with the plotlines with the Susan Ivanova character.

FS> Anyway, I'm babbling, but I just wanted to agree that Biggs
FS> is a wonderful

No, your words are important for me to read.  I was shaken up when I was told
that there are a group of San Francisco State Univ. students that collectively
all dislike Richard Biggs as an actor.  They think he over acts, is pompous,
is... basically a William Shatner!  I stand by my assessment that Richard Biggs
is the best at delivering lines, look and feel on the screen of all the
actors portraying earth force roles.  Actually, I have to admit that even though
I cannot stand William Shatner outside of his acting, he has a vast dramatic
range.  It is this dramatic range that took Star Trek in so many directions.  I
have no idea how Richard Biggs is as a person.  For entertainment purposes, I
can care less -- just like I still can sit through in rapt fascination all of
the TOS and 4 of the 7 Trek movies.  Thanks for sharing your thoughts,
publically.  Ry

---
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 Msg  : 61 of 384
 From : Richard Yamagata                    1:203/955       .åò 25 .àé 95 04:07
 To   : Jack Butler
 Subj : B5: ItSoZ Thoughts
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

JB> JK> Someone obviously knew what kind of poison to use on Kosh, since the
JB> JK> ancient one in the suit should not be known to the universe in
JB> JK> general.  Whoever was behind this *knew* how to kill the not-Vorlon
JB> JK> the suit. Assuming that the whole poisoning business wasn't faked to
JB> JK> begin with.

JB>      The Minbari know who the Vorlons are.  Or at least some
JB> do.  Maybe one of them hired the assassin.

No, it WAS a Minbari of the warrior caste that was the assassin using a
changeling net.  We saw the Minbari warrior before he snapped his wrist and blew
himself up in the pilot.  Ry
---
 * Origin: Dynasoft 916-753-8788  3Gig C C++ Everyone (1:203/955)

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 Msg  : 62 of 384
 From : Rumble                              1:163/436       .åò 25 .àé 95 15:10
 To   : James Walton
 Subj : Purpose of ST-DSN & ST-V
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
They can say this: Space the final frontier. These are the Voyages of teh Star
Ship Voyager.... ah screw it if any of this is getting through send help
please!!!

--- Maximus 2.02
 * Origin: Coven's Den (613)746-3584 = 650+ Echoes & 4.3+ Gigs (1:163/436)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 63 of 384
 From : Ken Mayes                           1:393/7         .åò 25 .àé 95 18:42
 To   : Jack Butler
 Subj : Re: B5, B9
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On Tue 23-May-1995  5:20p, Jack Butler wrote:

JB>      Hardly.  His point was that there were entire species in the Trek
JB> Universe using living, sentient starships.  There has been, however, only
JB> one.  And one does not consititute a species.

JB>      Jack Butler



        Tin Man if you recall was said to BE the Last of it's species. The fact
that there was one says that there logically HAD to be a species of them
somewhere at sometime.
        (Not to mention Picard's reference to Data as a species of one. 8?})




--- CNet/3
 * Origin: The Bard's Tavern Denton, TX (817)243-5110 USR 28.8   (1:393/7)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 64 of 384
 From : Frank Glover                        1:2613/477      .ÿò 26 .àé 95 22:29
 To   : Michael Nellis
 Subj : Re: spitting
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

MN>  not take place, of course.  For instance, the Federation never found
MN>  Data, Worf was never picked up from the ruins of the outpost to go to

   Data was indeed present in the new timeline, and still a helmsman.

   But what I thought would've been a nice twist would be if the Klingon
commander that ordered the Enterprise-D to surrender had turned out to be an
alternate Worf...!

    Frank


--- QuickBBS 2.80 GoldBase (Zeta-1)
 * Origin: The Matrix Data Bank BBS, Rochester, Ny (1:2613/477)

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 Msg  : 65 of 384
 From : Samantha Dobbs                      1:229/436       .òp 23 .àé 95 18:34
 To   : Tippi Blevins
 Subj : Re: H.R. Giger
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
I have a postcard book that costs more the my comic collection!! I love Giger's
work and he did do the monsters for Aliens and album covers and there is even a
poster in a Dead Kenedey(sp?) album called Frankenchrist! The singer (Jello
Biafra) nearly when to jail over it!! If you do get any more Giger books watch
out!! They are VERY pricy!!!

Samantha...
--- CNet/3
 * Origin: Daily Planet BBS   10 Lines o' Fun   (905)436-6509 (1:229/436)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 66 of 384
 From : FRANK SWARBRICK                     1:104/825       .òp 23 .àé 95 19:41
 To   : BRUCE BAUGH
 Subj : Movie: Miracle Mile
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On 05-20-95  11:43 Bruce Baugh, the little pine weasel, said:

 BB> On (15 May 95) FRANK SWARBRICK wrote to BRUCE BAUGH...

 FS> Yes, yes! I saw this movie a month or two ago and I *loved* it.
 FS> I have never seen anything like it. Do you know of any movies
 FS> with, umm, a similar disposition? Meaning, not the same
 FS> subject, but the same kind of "feel."

 BB> Hmm, let's see. Neither JACOB'S LADDER nor KAFKA has the initial
 BB> comedy, but both have similar emotional wallops at the end. (JACOB'S
 BB> LADDER has very nice acting from Macauley Culkin, too, as Tim
 BB> Robbins' maybe-dead son.) The first of these is about a Vietnam vet
 BB> working for the Post Office who finds himself being hunted by
 BB> demons. Then things get weird. KAFKA is about, of all things, Franz
 BB> Kafka, working in early 20th-century Prague, except that it's Prague
 BB> the way he wrote it, complete with The Castle. He's working at an
 BB> insurance company, and ends up finding out just how sinister the
 BB> government is.

 BB> RAN is one of Akira Kurosawa's masterworks, more or less KING LEAR
 BB> adapted to fit Japanese history: the old warlord divides up his
 BB> kingdom among his three sons, and things go badly.

 BB> SWING KIDS is about jazz fanciers in Nazi Germany just before World
 BB> War II.

 BB> Oh, yes, and THE MISSION is a truly stunning work, about Franciscans
 BB> in colonial Brazil not interested in going along with imperial
 BB> schemes of conquest. Jeremy Irons stars in this one as well as in
 BB> KAFKA. The ending of THE MISSION has, of all of these, an impact
 BB> most similar to the ending of MIRACLE MILE.

Thanks for the info.  From what I remember from the writeups when it
first came out Jacob's Ladder sounds like a must.  I may try most of the
others, but Swing Kids?  You must be kidding.  Of course, I haven't seen
it, but I've heard terrible things about it.  Are you actually serious
about it?  (No offense.)

        Frank

... ALL DONE - BYE BYE!
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12
--- Silver Xpress Mail System 5.3W1G
 * Origin: Bailey Info Exchange : 303-674-0147 (1:104/825)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 67 of 384
 From : Pamela Crossett                     1:325/118       .pä 24 .àé 95 02:34
 To   : Jack Butler
 Subj : Highlander Scedule
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 JB>      The producers are claiming that they let Lisa Howard go because
 JB> of a lack of "chemistry" between her and Adrian Paul.  Personally, I
 JB> think they are bowing to fan pressure.

This sounds like you have an "insider" giving you information.

Or are you actually part of the show?

I always enjoy reading your posts, more so, as they all seem to end up
coming true.

I'm sad about the departure of Lisa Howard, although it actually adds a
touch or realism, having someone who was at least built up for some shows
(albeit not enough) turn Duncan down.

I mean, how many women could really handle the pressure? It would be worse
than being a NYC policeman's wife (and Bruce Willis's wife left him in the
3rd Die Hard movie - "who can blame her????"

Especially since many immortals have proven to be less than honorable
about hurting another immortal's woman.

 JB>      Well, at least Stan Kirsch and Peter Wingfield (Methos) are
 JB> going to be back.

Again, how do you get this info?  Will you reveal your source?

I'm so glad to hear Peter Wingfield will be back as Methos. That was the
best plot line of this season! And he was excellent for leaving a sense of
mystery around long-term immoratals.

Good talking with ya,

Pam

___
 This copy of Freddie 1.2.5 is being evaluated.

--- Maximus/2 2.02
 * Origin: The Ozone Layer, Williston, VT. (802) 862-5058 (1:325/118)

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 Msg  : 68 of 384
 From : Jeff Schlenker                      1:288/19        .pä 24 .àé 95 23:31
 To   : Jack Butler
 Subj : Re: X-Files Finale
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

-=> Jack Butler was overheard speaking to All <=-

 JB> PS  I think I know how Mulder got out of the buried refrigeration
 JB> car.

OK, I'll bite.  What dot you think?

Jeff

Jeffrey A. Schlenker                          >>Internet<<
Hazel, South Dakota                   jeff.schlenker@lake-city.com

... URA Redneck if you think your boyfriend hits you 'because he cares'.
___ TagDude 0.87 [Unregistered]

--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12
 * Origin: LakeCity BBS * V34/4 Gigs Watertown SD 605 886-0849 (1:288/19)

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 Msg  : 69 of 384
 From : Bruce Baugh                         1:105/290.50    .åò 25 .àé 95 00:53
 To   : Jack Butler
 Subj : Sliders-Luck of the Draw
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On (22 May 95) Jack Butler wrote to FRANK SWARBRICK...

 JB> "Soylent Green is people!"

Soylent Green: it's the People Food.

... Since the Bible was written in Farenheit that's good enough for me.

--- PPoint 1.92
 * Origin: Bruce's Cleverly Named Point (1:105/290.50)

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 Msg  : 70 of 384
 From : David Johnston                      1:342/14        .åò 25 .àé 95 01:22
 To   : Brian Henderson
 Subj : B5 Ripoff: Ds9
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
-> purpose than *JUST* making a quick buck.  Star Trek would kill it's
-> own grandmother for a buck, so to speak, violate any rule, do
-> anything.  B5 has a

Unfair.  Star Trek may not have a grand masterplan, but it's
inconsistencies are not monetary in origin.

--- PCBoard (R) v15.21/100
 * Origin: Freddy's Place - Edm. AB - 28.8K (403) 456-4241 (1:342/14)

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 Msg  : 71 of 384
 From : David Johnston                      1:342/14        .åò 25 .àé 95 01:27
 To   : Scott Gates
 Subj : Sliders - Bathroom? Wash
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
->     The energy requirements are too large to replicate large objects,
->     instead, they replicate component parts then let humans assemble
->     them.

Um...the energy requirements in order to replicate a large object are
identical to those required to replicate all of it's components, no
matter how the replicators work.

--- PCBoard (R) v15.21/100
 * Origin: Freddy's Place - Edm. AB - 28.8K (403) 456-4241 (1:342/14)

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 Msg  : 72 of 384
 From : Frank Eva                           1:154/750       .åò 25 .àé 95 07:41
 To   : Scott Gates
 Subj : BEST SF
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: FastEcho 1.42.b9 8060
SG "FE=>        Read Harlan Ellison's comments in the latest issue of
SG "FE=>Sci-Fi Universe for his views on Star Trek (not that he is the
SG "FE=>only authority who really counts, mind you...) They are truly
SG "FE=>eye-opening! Even though he is a 'conceptual consultant' on B5,
SG "FE=>he has some complaints about that show, too!

SG "Harlan's problem with B5 is he doesn't get his way 110% of the time.
SG "(the extra 10% comes when he does get his way, was wrong, and will
SG "blame someone else.

He did sound like a whiny baby in the SFU interview...

---
 * Origin: *YOPS ]I[* 2.2 Gig * RA/FD/FE RADist * Milwaukee, WI (1:154/750)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 73 of 384
 From : Frank Eva                           1:154/750       .åò 25 .àé 95 07:41
 To   : Mark Jones
 Subj : Torres in Faces
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: FastEcho 1.42.b9 8060
MJ "   I actually hoped (for a few minutes) that they intended to
MJ "*leave* her completely human.

Funny you say this because I felt the same way! Also, think of the time
and money they could have saved not having to apply a turtle to her
forehead every shooting day?! :-)

MJ "   THAT would have made the silly techno-babble worthwhile.

I'm beginning to see why you're so opposed to "techo-babble"! It really
is getting rather deep, especially in the last episode in which they had
to figure out a way to "cure" the bio-gel-packs! IMO, the last 3 shows
have definitely taken a nosedive in quality. Perhaps the writers are
getting burnt out...

MJ "would have given them a chance for some real angst--as B'lanna is
MJ "forced to learn how to get through life as a human.  She'd have to
MJ "figure out just how much of her personality was genetically
MJ "determined, and how much was learned--and just how much she could
MJ "compensate for the loss.

In addition to the factors you mentioned, how would she react to her
parents... all sorts of neat complications!

MJ "   So the Holo-Doctor simply takes DNA from the klingon corpse, and
MJ "uses it to rewrite every cell in her body so that a week later (by
MJ "the next episode) she is back to square one (and completely
MJ "unaffected emotionally by an ordeal no one in the universe--except
MJ "James T. Kirk ninety years ago--has ever experienced.
MJ "   (And if they can do *that* to her, why the hell couldn't they
MJ "recreate Neelix's lungs?)

Doc Zimmerman is not as obnoxious as Wesley Crusher, but he's being used
basically the same way. Save another crew member? Just ask Doc Zimmerman
to go well beyond his normal programming, and he'll save the day every
time!

--- CMPQwk 1.42-R2 #145 ---
Dogs come when you call. Cats have answering machines...

---
 * Origin: *YOPS ]I[* 2.2 Gig * RA/FD/FE RADist * Milwaukee, WI (1:154/750)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 74 of 384
 From : Frank Eva                           1:154/750       .åò 25 .àé 95 07:41
 To   : Jeff Hancock
 Subj : Voices: John Vornholt
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: FastEcho 1.42.b9 8060
JH "Eh? Where I left off they were going to have the Psi-Corps
JH "conference on B5 due to the explosion on Mars, and the cover blurb
JH "says something about someone going to stop that too. So what's the
JH "rest of it doing on Earth?

Kosh helps Ms. Winters escape, and she takes off for Earth, where she
expects to find a way to clear her name.

BTW, I have been reading volume #2 in the B5 series (by Lois Tilton).
It's called "Accusations". It is the typical who-dun-it, with the B5
characters slapped on. Sheesh... I'll probably never buy another B5
novel. Foolish of me to think that the paperback writers would be
allowed to advance the B5 STORYLINE, or actually tell a good sci-fi
story...

JH "but anyway, aside from that possibility, I'd wager on the mental
JH "projection or that sentient minds can't comprehend seeing a Vorlon
JH "and percieve their vision of whatever an ancient wise supernatural
JH "being is.

I think I'd rather not speculate. Perhaps JMS will come up with an
episode that clears this matter up...

---
 * Origin: *YOPS ]I[* 2.2 Gig * RA/FD/FE RADist * Milwaukee, WI (1:154/750)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 75 of 384
 From : Frank Eva                           1:154/750       .åò 25 .àé 95 07:41
 To   : All
 Subj : B5 COMIC
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: FastEcho 1.42.b9 8060
According to the letters column in issue #5, DC Comics will be rotating
teams of artists/writers. So, even though the current look has improved,
there is no guarantee this same team will continue to produce the B5
comic...

---
 * Origin: *YOPS ]I[* 2.2 Gig * RA/FD/FE RADist * Milwaukee, WI (1:154/750)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 76 of 384
 From : Kay Shapero                         1:102/524       .åò 25 .àé 95 09:30
 To   : James Walton
 Subj : Purpose of ST-DSN & ST-V
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <May 23 23:37>, James Walton (1:129/260) wrote to Denis Lamy:

 JW>As far as Voyager goes, I have never seen it, but since the show
 JW>isn't about a planned trip, not too much can be said.

OTOH, the number of filks to the Gilligan's Island theme that this thing has
inspired is pretty impressive... :->

--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 77 of 384
 From : DAVE WHITTIER                       1:134/10        .åò 25 .àé 95 12:25
 To   : KARMIN ST.JEAN
 Subj : LOTTERYS IN THE MAIL
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
KS>Okay, so I spelled it wrong. But look at it this way. It's a lottery, just t
KS>same as scratching one of those tickets you buy at the store,

I think you're missing the point.  It's not a lottery, it's a con, and
it's illegal

KS> ...then find the jerk who conned you out of it and beat the
KS>living daylights out of him, or give him the Vulcan Neck Pinch...

Does the Vulcan Neck Pinch work by email?  Or by post?  Get the picture?
These people want you to send money all over the country on the promise
that IF everyone else does it, you'll be rich.  How do you "beat the
living daylights" out of a post office box?  It's not just a dumb idea,
it's against the law.

So, how about them X-files?  :)

---
 þ SLMR 2.1a þ All hope abandon, ye who enter messages here.

--- PCBoard 15.2
 * Origin: 32 lines 40 Gig BBS, Realtime InterNet SLIP (403)299-9900 (1:134/10)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 78 of 384
 From : Gloria Darcy                        1:124/8107      .åò 25 .àé 95 21:57
 To   : Jack Butler
 Subj : Highlander Scedule
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

JB> Quoth Brian Kuhnel, "Nevermore".


JB>     The producers are claiming that they let Lisa Howard go because of a
JB>lack of "chemistry" between her and Adrian Paul.  Personally, I think they
JB>are bowing to fan pressure.

        maybe!  I could tell from day one that those two had no
        chemistry whatsoever!


JB>     Well, at least Stan Kirsch and Peter Wingfield (Methos) are going to be
JB>back.

        Great news, Jack!  What about Joe?  I haven't seen the second
        part yet of the season finale.

Gloria

___
 X OLX 2.1 TD X Highlander ... There can be only one!

--- Maximus/2 2.02
 * Origin: Palindrome WriterNet [Fiction&Non] (1:124/8107)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 79 of 384
 From : Morten M.nsson                      2:235/335.17    .åò 25 .àé 95 22:45
 To   : All
 Subj : Starfleet Rules as...
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Hi All, Copenhagen calling!

Having read something about Starfleet rules, as interpreted by Captain
Picard and the crew of Enterprise, I got the urge to add a few more rules...:

-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-

 8. If a dangerous solution to a problem, haven't been tested before, try one
    of the following commands: "Redirect Power..." or "Reverse Polarity..."

 9. If access to a high-level-security-system or area is impossible,
    try the ventilation duct or the loose access-panel right next to it.

10. If your ships highly sophisticated automatic controls are unable to cope
    with an unnatural cosmic fenomenon, try flying it better manually!

-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-

With Prosperous Greetings
Morten "Meanie" MÆnsson

--- GEcho 1.00
 * Origin: Cardassian Fairytales: so the wolf ate her. The End! (2:235/335.17)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 80 of 384
 From : Morten M.nsson                      2:235/335.17    .åò 25 .àé 95 22:46
 To   : All
 Subj : My friend Max
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 Good Evening Everyone! Copenhagen calling - The jury has decided as follows:

>Max Headroom: 10 points!

 Can anybody tell me, what the difference is between the UK and the US
 versions of the show. Are there different actors? Different episodes? Or..??

 If anyone has a short episode listing from either version,
 preferably both, you will be included in my bedtime prayers! ;-)

 And that concludes the judging of the danish jury.....next caller please!

 Bye no-no-no-no-now!
 Morten "Max" MÆnsson

--- GEcho 1.00
 * Origin: Ferengi Fairytales: Grandma, why are your ears so big (2:235/335.17)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 81 of 384
 From : Morten M.nsson                      2:235/335.17    .åò 25 .àé 95 22:46
 To   : All
 Subj : X-FILES konference??
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Hi again everybody!

Can anybody please confirm, or the opposite ;-(, the rumour about,
there being a seperate X-Files konference called - plainly: X-FILES ??

And...Can someone tell me the names of the Movie related Echo's.
There has to be some, don't there? Noone over here knows anything...

Thanks a lot. Tooteloo!
Morten "Mean" MÆnsson

--- GEcho 1.00
 * Origin: "911 emergency - how may we save you?" (2:235/335.17)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 82 of 384
 From : FRANK SWARBRICK                     1:104/825       .ÿò 26 .àé 95 01:55
 To   : JOHN KAHANE
 Subj : Stuff of TP
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On 05-22-95  15:31 John Kahane, the little pine weasel, said:

 JK> In a message of <Thursday May 18 1995>, FRANK SWARBRICK scribed:

 FS> Anyway, I watched the pilot movie when Bravo aired it on
 FS> Halloween night last year.  I was *not* blown away, and found
 FS> parts of it rather annoying (mostly Laura's mothers darn
 FS> bawling through the whole thing!).

 JK> But there was a reason for Laura's mother bawling her head off
 JK> for most of the episode.  She is/was a psychic, and had "visions" of
 JK> things...

Didn't say there wasn't a reason.  Only said it was annoying!  :-)

 FS> (And of course I'll have to rent the "Fire Walk With Me" movie.)

 JK> Some of us will have to rent or buy the movie, Frank.  I still
 JK> haven't seen FIRE WALK WITH ME. :)

I finished the series the other day.  May rent "Fire Walk With Me"
this weekend.  I saw it at Blockbuster the other day, along with the
pilot movie and the first seven episodes.

 FS> On to the questions...  First, can someone match the actor's
 FS> names with the characters for me.  I know probably less than
 FS> half of them.  I'm interested in the main credit stars, the
 FS> beginning credit stars, and even the main guest stars.

 JK> Boy, you don't ask the little questions, do you? :)

[deleted]

Thanks for the list.  How did you manage to know all this?  Anyway, it's
missing a few important characters.  Giant was of course played by Carel
Struyken.  I saw that David Lynch himself played someone in a few episodes.
At first I thought it must the rather Caucasian looking Chinese guy <g>,
but of course that turned out to be Catherine Martell in disguise.  So
I figure it must be Cooper's boss Gordan (Pratt?).  Still, could be wrong.
I've seen Lynch once (on the Tonight Show), but I can't picture him, other
than I remember he had a rather strange hairdo.

Oh, and how about Annie Blackburn?  She was a rather important character,
even though she was only in the last half dozen episodes or so.  I found
her and Cooper to make quite a cute couple.  :-)

Then there's the old waiter guy, but I think I can get his name from
the ending credits.  Oh, you ever notice that the little guy was listed
as The Man From Everywhere, or some such thing?  Wierd.

Looking at your list it looks like you don't have anyone from after the
Laura Palmer mystery was solved.  Not a criticism by any means.  Just
a comment.

How about Thomas Eckhart, Andrew Packard (yes, those last two have the names
listed with the actors), the mayor, Lana, Dick Tremaine, Jack (who Audrey
fell for).  I know the guy who played Squiggy on Laverne & Shirley (David
L. Landers?) played someone, but I can't remember the character's name!

Oh, and the Renault brothers.  And others I can't think of.  Ah well

 FS> How about an episode title list?  I got a list from someone
 FS> else that seems to be pretty reliable, but I'm not sure on it.

 JK> To the best of my knowledge, the episodes of TWIN PEAKS didn't
 JK> have any titles.  If they did, I'd sure as heck appreciate a full list
 JK> of titles for the stories.

 FS> Next question is, did season one end after Cooper got shot?

 JK> Correct. :)

 FS> So the first season would be six episodes, and seven hours.

 JK> Nope.  According to my videotape collection, the first season
 JK> consists of the two-hour premiere, and seven one-hour episodes.

Hmm, this seems to be correct.  I didn't have the so-called episode title
list until after well into the "second season," so I couldn't follow
along at the time.

 FS> The second season would be 24 episodes and 25 hours (or 26 if
 FS> there were two two hour episodes).

 JK> The second season consists of a two-hour premiere again, and 21
 JK> one-hour episodes as well.

OK...The list I have seems to be totally made up, and not quite accurate
even in which episode goes where.  (huh?)  Still, most of the titles
actually went quite well with what the episodes were actually about.
Fer instance it has the pilot as "Wrapped In Plastic," the season one
finale as "Bite The Bullet," the episode with Laura's secret diary as
"The Diary of Laura Palmer," the episode where Maddy is killed is, well,
"Maddy."  Actually, most of the later titles aren't all too creative.
I'll post it in the next message just so you can see it.

Another thing which indicates there were no titles is the videos that
are out are simply listed as "Episode 001," "Episode 002," etc.  (With
episode 001 being the first one hour episode.)  Still, many TV shows
(including the X-Files) have titles that are just not listed onscreen.

 FS> More comments...  I've heard comments that after the Laura
 FS> Palmer mystery was "solved" (such as it is) people say that
 FS> it went downhill and just got plain wierd.

 JK> Yep, this is pretty accurate in some ways.  Once the Laura Palmer
 JK> mystery was cleared up, the series went in a direction that not many
 JK> fans of the show appreciated (at least I don't think they did).  Weird
 JK> is one word for it. :)

Having just finished it, I actually don't agree.  I didn't get much into
the first few after the LPalmer mystery was solved (such as the whole
Jean Renault thing and the James/Evelyn story), but I liked most of it.
I especially liked the whole Annie Blackburn(?) thing, and the final
episode was quite cool.

 FS> Welp, I'm done rambling.  I hope I'm not totally off topic.
 FS> If anyone wants to talk with a new TP convert/fanatic, I'd
 FS> love to hear your comments!

 JK> Well, you've got some of mine above; I trust that you can start a
 JK> whole new conversation about the series with me now! <g>

Heh heh.  I still have more questions, but I'll stop for now.

        Frank

... The Psi Corps Is Your Friend.  Trust The Corps.
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12
--- Silver Xpress Mail System 5.3W1G
 * Origin: Bailey Info Exchange : 303-674-0147 (1:104/825)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 83 of 384
 From : FRANK SWARBRICK                     1:104/825       .ÿò 26 .àé 95 02:03
 To   : JACK BUTLER
 Subj : Twin Peaks
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On 05-22-95  06:00 Jack Butler, the little pine weasel, said:

 JB> Quoth FRANK SWARBRICK, "Nevermore".

 FS> I never saw Twin Peaks when it originally aired.  I worked until after
 FS> 9:00 at night and didn't have a VCR.  I do remember there was a big
 FS> thing regarding "The Diary of Laura Palmer," but I don't remember much
 FS> more than that.

 JB> Well, "The Diary of Laura Palmer" was a "spin-off" book written
 JB> by Jennifer Lynch (daughter of David Lynch, the producer of Peaks, and
 JB> a  director/producer in her own right).  I read part of it, and wasn't
 JB> that impressed except to note that Laura Palmer, it turned out, was not
 JB> a nice person at all...

Yeah, I remember seeing this book at the place I worked.  Don't really
plan to look for it.  Probably couldn't find it anymore anyway.

 FS> I still have four more episodes to go, though Bravo finished with it
 FS> last week.  (And of course I'll have to rent the "Fire Walk With Me"
 FS> movie.)

 JB> Frank, I mean this:  you don't have to watch "Fire Walk With Me".
 JB> You may not even want to.  The best thing I can say about it is that
 JB> both Sheryl Lee and Moira Kelley (the "replacement" Donna) look good
 JB> nekkid.  Oh, and David Bowie's cameo is interesting.  But that's it.

Replacement Donna?  How could they!  Hmm, not sure if I'll get it this
weekend after all.  Perhaps some day, if there's nothing else to do.
Thanks for the info.

 FS> On to the questions...  First, can someone match the actor's names
 FS> with the characters for me.

 JB> The only ones I can remember (its been a while since I've seen
 JB> it, and I was working during the recent Bravo airing) are Kyle
 JB> MacLachlan (Special Agent D.B. Cooper), Michael Ontkean (Sheriff Harry
 JB> Truman), Everett McGill (Ed Hurley), Joan Chen (Josie Packard), Machen
 JB> Amick (Shelly Johnson), Eric De Ray (Leo Johnson), Carol Struyken (The
 JB> Giant), Charles Gray (The Dancing Dwarf), and Sheryl Lee (Laura
 JB> Palmer/Madeline Furguson).

Actually, the Dancing Dwarf (the Man from Everywhere) was played by
Michael Anderson.  I know this for sure because he was in an X-Files
episode, not to mention John Kahane confirmed it with his list.
Anyway...

 FS> Of course, for all I know these episode titles could be totally bogus.
 FS> The guy who I got them from is a total flake, but they seem to match
 FS> what the episodes were about.

 JB> I don't seem to remember there being episode titles...

Seems to be a bogus list.

 FS> Next question is, did season one end after Cooper got shot?

 JB> No... <G>

John Kahane says yes.  Or were you just kidding?

 FS> More comments...  I've heard comments that after the Laura Palmer
 FS> mystery was "solved" (such as it is) people say that it went downhill
 FS> and just got plain wierd.  I have to say that I was a little let down
 FS> by the first few episodes after it, but they were still enjoyable and I
 FS> got "re-interested" again quite soon.

 JB> I thought it nosedived right into imcomprehensibility, but stayed
 JB> with it all the way.

Well, it didn't make all that much sense before then, so I really can't
agree with that.  I liked almost the entire series.

 FS> I hope to record them when TP comes around again on Bravo.

 JB> Me too, now that you got me interested again.  <G>

Heh heh!  Dunno when it will be on again.  They're doing Brooklyn Bridge
right now, and will probably follow it with Max Headroom again (all 14
hours...).  Hopefully they'll show TP again after that.

I'd copy my tapes for ya, but I only have one VCR...

        Frank

... ALL DONE - BYE BYE!
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12
--- Silver Xpress Mail System 5.3W1G
 * Origin: Bailey Info Exchange : 303-674-0147 (1:104/825)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 84 of 384
 From : FRANK SWARBRICK                     1:104/825       .ÿò 26 .àé 95 02:22
 To   : ALL
 Subj : fake Twin Peaks ep list
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
OK, the original list I got had the two hour episodes listed as two
separate episodes (ie, "Wrapped In Plastic (I)" and "Wrapped In Plastic
(II)", as well as saying that both "Bite The Bullet" and "One Stone At
A Time" were both two parts.  Still, it worked pretty well, except that
when I reconcile it I can only manage to get 6 one hour episodes in
season one, when in fact there were seven.  And there's an extra one in
season two, but I can't figure out which one.  Unfortunately I deleted
the original info when I make my list.  It could be that OSAAT was
the episode where Cooper got shot, except that doesn't make sense title-
wise.  Not to mention that it would mean I missed TSDoLP, and I know
for a fact that I saw the first episode with the secret diary.  (I
missed the first one hour episode of the second season, which ever one
that was...)

The notes after the asterisks are just notes to me so I can make sure to
record them because I missed them the first time around.

All in all, interesting titles, if rather uncreative toward the end.

Remember--these titles seem to be totally *fake*, unless I can get someone
else to verify them!  :-)

Twin Peaks - Season One
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Ep.#  Episode Title
====  ================================
  1.  "Wrapped In Plastic" (2 hours)
  2.  "Jacoby & Heart"
  3.  "The Dream of the Red Drapes"
  4.  "Funeral For Laura"
  5.  "One Armed Man & Veternarian"
  6.  "The Log Speaks Yet Waldo Dies"
  7.  "Bite The Bullet"

Twin Peaks - Season Two
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Ep.#  Episode Title
====  ================================
  8.  "One Stone At A Time" (2 hours)
  9.  "You And I" * need to record
 10.  "The Secret Diary of Laura Palmer"
 11.  "Audrey Kidnapped"
 12.  "Rescue Of Audrey"
 13.  "Mike"
 14.  "Bob Revealed" * need to re-record?
 15.  "Maddy"
 16.  "Expulsion"
 17.  "Disappearance" * need to record!
 18.  "Dennis/Denise"
 19.  "Return" * need to record!
 20.  "Capture Of Renault"
 21.  "Windom Earle"
 22.  "Evelyn"
 23.  "Josie"
 24.  "The Box"
 25.  "The Symbol"
 26.  "The Petrocliff"
 27.  "Return Of Bob"
 28.  "Revenge"
 29.  "Possession of Cooper" (Part I)
 30.  "Possession of Cooper" (Part II)

 n/a  "Twin Peaks:  Fire Walk With Me" (2 hour movie)

Just for a little more perspective, "Expulsion" seems to be the episode
where they find out Leland (as Bob!) killed Laura, and he (Leland) dies.
The next one, where Major Briggs disappears, is of course "Disapearance,"
and from there on they're fairly obvious.  ("Josie" is where Josie dies,
etc.)  The final one makes sense as "Possession of Cooper," but I don't
know why he called the one before that "part 1" of it.

        Frank

... The Truth Is Out There -- The X-Files
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Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 85 of 384
 From : FRANK SWARBRICK                     1:104/825       .ÿò 26 .àé 95 02:58
 To   : CHRIS CARTER
 Subj : Kosh's Karaoke machine
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Woah...excellant!!

:-)

        Frank

... No one can hear when you're Screaming in Digital!
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12
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Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 86 of 384
 From : FRANK SWARBRICK                     1:104/825       .ÿò 26 .àé 95 19:10
 To   : SKIP SHAYOTOVICH
 Subj : VR.5
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On 05-21-95  14:10 Skip Shayotovich, the little pine weasel, said:

 SS> = A long time ago, in a galaxy far, far away, Frank said: =

 FS> I'm curious to know if anyone out there (besides me) actually liked
 FS> VR.5...

 SS> I do... a lot actually, but I can see how it would be difficult
 SS> for someone who hasn't been watching it from the start to jump in and
 SS> watch any of the episodes.

Alas, 'tis been cancelled.

 FS> Anyway!  I very much hope FOX gives the show another chance, even if
 FS> it's their lowest rated one.  I hear that the new Morgan/Wong
 FS> (ex-X-Files producers) show Space is going to lead in for The X-Files
 FS> in the fall, so that's discouraging where VR.5 is concerned.

 SS> Really? I hadn't heard that... what's SPACE about, do you know?
 SS> If Fox does cancel it, I at least hope they don't leave us hanging
 SS> without a closure episode.

Found out that Space is going to be on Sunday nights at 7:00pm (6:00
central/mtn).  The storyline seems to be thus...

A group of first year military cadets are thrust to the frontline of an
interstellar war when a previously unknown alien race attacks the
Earth and destroys it's elite fighting squad.  Sounds pretty good!  I've
also seen it refered to as "Top Gun in space," but that's a little shallow.

I wonder how far the show has been planned out.  Hopefully they've
planned out in advance like Babylon 5 (well, maybe not five years in
advance, but...) so they have a story "goal" to work toward.  I'm looking
forward to it, even if the time slot sucks.  I stopped watching Earth 2
in part because it was in that time slot.


        Frank

... No one can hear when you're Screaming in Digital!
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12
--- Silver Xpress Mail System 5.3W1G
 * Origin: Bailey Info Exchange : 303-674-0147 (1:104/825)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 87 of 384
 From : Arsenal                             1:362/708       .ÿò 26 .àé 95 21:20
 To   : Joel Jessup
 Subj : SeaQuest DSV
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.REALNAME: James Ward
       In the mess of my work and my life I caught a line...
I will post you if I hear anything about the loss of the SeaQuest Crew.
Question: do you know any info sooner than other than us Viewers?
Cause I for one would like to know the happenings before all else.
(am the next to last to hear the facts, just rumbleings)
BTW thanks for the Dagwood point (Blanking at post times is a pain!)
later....

--- Maximus 2.02
 * Origin: The Inner Circle: Cleveland TN, (615) 479-3686 (1:362/708)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 88 of 384
 From : Bruce Baugh                         1:105/290.50    .ÿò 26 .àé 95 23:30
 To   : FRANK SWARBRICK
 Subj : Movie: Miracle Mile
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On (23 May 95) FRANK SWARBRICK wrote to BRUCE BAUGH...

 FS> Thanks for the info. From what I remember from the writeups
 FS> when it first came out Jacob's Ladder sounds like a must. I may
 FS> try most of the others, but Swing Kids? You must be kidding. Of
 FS> course, I haven't seen it, but I've heard terrible things about
 FS> it. Are you actually serious about it? (No offense.)

No offense taken. I think it's glorious - one of the best films
about Nazi German culture I've ever seen. Gorgeously produced,
excellent soundtrack by James Horner, rich and satisfying story.
Kenneth Branagh has an oustanding part as a Gestapo agent whose
motives are all too comprehensible, and by no means entirely
villainous (which, IMHO, sharpens and humanizes the evil). Initially
small differences add up as the story goes along. The final shot is
a wee tad campy, but the scene surrounding it is finely tragic.

... The refrigerator light DOES go out. Now let me out of here.

--- PPoint 1.92
 * Origin: Bruce's Cleverly Named Point (1:105/290.50)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 89 of 384
 From : Debra Milner                        1:112/285       .ÿò 26 .àé 95 23:33
 To   : Jack Butler
 Subj : X-Files Finale
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 >      Jack Butler

 >      PS  I think I know how Mulder got out of the buried
 > refrigeration car.

 Please fill me in....

We went to get a new living room set tonight, and the VCR didn't tape as it was
supposed to...(of course, the fact that I forgot to set it could have been one
reason).....

How DID Mulder get out of that car?

--- GEcho 1.00
 * Origin: Wolverine's Asylum, past the boonies in Macclenny, FL (1:112/285)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 90 of 384
 From : Debra Milner                        1:112/285       .ÿò 26 .àé 95 23:39
 To   : Dana Zendell
 Subj : Help on X-Files Finale
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 > Hi everyone,

 > I missed the final episode of the X-Files as well as the highlights
 > which aired right before the show.  Would anybody be willing to send
 > me
 > a copy of those 2 hours of X-Files?  I would really appreciate it.
 > From what I have heard, it sounded like it was very good finale.  And
 > if
 > needed I could send a videotape to copy it on.

I have both on tape, and tell you what, I'll be more than happy to send you a
copy, if you can send me your address...BTW, did you by any chance get tonight's
(part 2) episode on tape?  Guess what dummy forgot to set the VCR tonight...<G>

--- GEcho 1.00
 * Origin: Wolverine's Asylum, past the boonies in Macclenny, FL (1:112/285)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 91 of 384
 From : Jim Cushing                         1:123/75        .óá 27 .àé 95 01:33
 To   : Gary Warren
 Subj : Re: CREATION REVIEW 1995:  THE TROUBLE WITH R'NOLD! (part 2)
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 GW> CREATION REVIEW 1995:  THE TROUBLE WITH R'NOLD!

 GW> By GARY L. WARREN (aka "glw")


 GW> After we were firmly, but not happily, seated, we suffered
 GW> through the introductory music video (isn't ANYBODY who is vaguely
 GW> familiar with classical music, late 1970's rock or WAYNE'S WORLD
 GW> besides me tired of hearing Queen's version of "Bohemian Rhapsody" for
 GW> the 97th time?).

 Actually no! Queen is still one of my favorite groups.

 GW> Then we concentrated a bit more on Arnold's humourlessly spoken
 GW> (to everyone but himself)

 Having been to a con where Arnold was one of the guest speakers I can
 sympathize with you.

 ::POSSIBLE SPOILER ALERT!:::ANYBODY

 GW> READING PAST
 GW> THIS POINT **ISN'T** BEING FORCED TO DO SO AT GUNPOINT!:::waving green
 GW> flag!:::]


 GW> Since Colm Meany (Miles O'Brien on DS9) has a contract
 GW> allowing him to include his outside movie roles with his regular DS9
 GW> appearances, his stay on that series is assured for several years.

 Colm has also stated that one of his main reasons for staying on DS9 is
 that he gets a steady paycheck something most actors don't receive.

 GW> °       The subplot of Quark's nephew Nog's application to
 GW> Starfleet will surface again in the DS9 episode "Facets."

 I've heard that O'brien will be "assisting" Nog with application and
 training for the academy.

 GW> °       DS9's Benjamin Sisco (Avery Brooks) will be promoted
 GW> to captain at the end of this season.

 About time!

 GW> °       Even though Robert McNeil's Tom Paris on VOYAGER and
 GW> his earlier TNG Nick Lacarno from "The First Duty" have identical
 GW> semi-bad guy character backgrounds, the Lacarno character was rewritten
 GW> into Paris in order for Paramount to avoid paying the scripter(s) of
 GW> "The First Duty" residuals for each VOYAGER episode involving Lacarno.
 GW> (And we thought Paramount dishonestly credited or underpaid its TREK
 GW> franchise scriptwriters--AHEM!!)

 Paramount is a business of making money while "trying" to give its viewers
 "quality" programs.

 GW> ° To avoid an R-rating for STAR TREK VI:
 GW> THE UNDISCOVERED COUNTRY, the Klingon blood bubbles were Pepto
 GW> Bismol-coloured.  "Purple blood," commented Arnold, "is considered
 GW> less violent than RED blood!"

 Blood is blood no matter what the color it is. They still showed the
 violence. Changing the color of blood because purple is less violent
 than red blood is stupid. If anything they should have "cut" back on the
 graphic violence while keeping the red blood.


 GW> As usual, Shatner didn't sign autographs,

 I know he has a signature contract with QVC but that is ridiculous! The
 man gets paid $25,000 for a weekend show plus first class airline tickets
 plus over $100.00 per day for food and he can't take time out to sign
 autographs!

 GW> °       Despite Paramount's monetary concerns, it always
 GW> builds a new Enterprise bridge for each movie.

 If Shatner said that he is either a liar or he dosen't read the books
 his collaborators wrote for him. In his Movie Memories book he clearly stated
 that all through the series and movies Paramount either remade, refurbished
 or upgraded the current sets.

 GW> °       The horseback-riding scene with Patrick Stewart in
 GW> GENERATIONS took two days to shoot, where it was up to Shatner to
 GW> teach Stewart how to ride AND to wear panty-hose *inside* his pants.

 Stewart knew how to ride! Stewart was not prolific horseman like Shatner.

 GW> °       His new STAR TREK novel, ASHES OF EDEN, is part of a
 GW> planned trilogy.

 Did he also state that 80% of the book was written by Gar and Judith
 Stevens!

 GW> He also added that VOYAGER and DS9 producer Rick Berman may consider his
 GW> screenplay for ASHES as part of another TREK film, which would inevitably
 GW> result in Captain James T. Kirk's "resurrection" for at least this
 GW> supposed movie.

 I hope not after all Shatner last idea(ST5 In search of "God")was a flop!
 Besides "He's dead Bill" and I hope he stays that way.

 GW> While USA Network has canceled TEKWAR, a Canadian network is considering
 GW> producing more episodes.

 At times I enjoyed TEKWAR and I hope a Canadian network will produce more!

 GW> °       Shatner said he believes VOYAGER is "more in line"
 GW> with the exploratory premise of the Original Series than DS9, even
 GW> though he admitted seeing only "Caretaker," VOYAGER's two-hour debut.

 How would he know? He has admitted that he has never watched TNG or DS9 so
 how can he make a statement like that plus he only saw the debut episode
 of Voyager.

 GW> °       Among his most degrading entertainment assignments,
 GW> Shatner listed his role in the 1970's KINGDOM OF THE SPIDERS and his
 GW> late 1960's rendition of "Lucy in the Sky with Diamonds." He explained,
 GW> however, that the original cut included his reading from "Man from La
 GW> Mancha" intercut with his "interpretation" of the Beatles hit in order
 GW> to provide a sort of literary contrast of the times.  The purpose of
 GW> the release containing only "Lucy" was "to DEGRADE me!" Shatner
 GW> exclaimed. °

 Hey the man needed work! Plus he had been through a bitter divorce with
 his first wife which pratically left him pennyless and living out of his
 pickup truck.(he stated that on an interview with Howard Stern)

 GW> Shatner included "The City on the Edge of Forever" (which he labeled
 GW> "The City on the Edge of the River") and "The Trouble with Tribbles"
 GW> were his favorite Original Series episodes.  He also mused that the
 GW> show's finale "Turnabout Intruder" ("where a woman entered MY body!")
 GW> was one of his most unforgettable TOS shows.

 Bill must be suffering from memory loss. When I last saw him at a convention
 he stated that his favorite was "The devil in the dark"(the Horta episode)
 because his father died either just before filming began or while they were
 filming the episode.

 GW> Since we had our fill of Shatner and parking and seating
 GW> hassles, Teri and I didn't bother to stay for the rescheduled blooper
 GW> reel. If I was teaching at Teri's school where she works, I'd stamp a
 GW> fat D-plus (D+) for the convention's grade, with the only saving graces
 GW> being the informational bits and Shatner's appearance.  If I were to
 GW> repeat my oath from last year not to attend another Creation
 GW> convention, I'd gladly do so with crossed fingers. But I'd ALSO add the
 GW> caveat that Creation needs to come up with another convention site with
 GW> better parking and audience seating AND a convention host with a
 GW> tumbleweed's inkling about handicapped accessibility issues.

 Good idea!



... I am Bjorn Borg.  Stop making fun of my name, dangit!
--- Blue Wave/RA v2.12 [NR]
 * Origin:  Weyr Galifrey - Memphis, TN  +1.901.685.0017 (1:123/75)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 92 of 384
 From : Jim Cushing                         1:123/75        .óá 27 .àé 95 01:33
 To   : Phill Ash
 Subj : Re: SeaQuest Survives
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 PA> Phill Ash nasally exhaled his coffee upon hearing this:

 >Did you hear?! Next year it will be on Wendsdays! Nothing to compete
 >with it, And nothing to preempt it with.

 PA> Wednesday in what time slot?

 8:00 ET

 PA> Will it be competing with Babylon5?

 Who knows! If one of your local stations telecast B-5 on Wednesday's at
 8:00 then yes it will compete in your local station area not nation wide.

 90210?

 Yes

 PA> Possibly Sliders?

 Sliders is not on FOX's fall lineup but it hasn't been cancelled and may
 return as a mid season replacement somewhere in FOX's lineup. Not necessarily
 on Wednesday nights.

 PA> Or will they do the smart thing and put it in Quantum Leap's
 PA> old timeslot (10 est)?

 What is so smart about that time slot?



... Captain, there be mail here!
--- Blue Wave/RA v2.12 [NR]
 * Origin:  Weyr Galifrey - Memphis, TN  +1.901.685.0017 (1:123/75)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 93 of 384
 From : Jim Cushing                         1:123/75        .óá 27 .àé 95 01:33
 To   : Jack Butler
 Subj : Re: Highlander, The Series
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 JB> Quoth Marc Zingarelli, "Nevermore".

 MZ> I'm just waiting to see if he'll be in the season next year since he's
 MZ> been  banished from europe.

 JB> Not only will Richie be back next season, but so will Methos and
 JB> Amanda.
 JB> I cannot wait for the finale.  The final fight with Kallas was
 JB> filmed on the *real* Eiffel Tower.  I wonder how they turned that
 JB> little trick...
 JB> Jack Butler
 JB> Highlander Guru

 Friday's Entertainment Tonight did a segment on the season finale. The actors
 involved stated it was very dangerous especially the dance sequence with
 Amanda and Duncan's final encounter with Kalas.


... I am Ernest Angley of Borg. Prepare to be HHHEEEEAAAALLLEEEDDD!
--- Blue Wave/RA v2.12 [NR]
 * Origin:  Weyr Galifrey - Memphis, TN  +1.901.685.0017 (1:123/75)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 94 of 384
 From : Jim Cushing                         1:123/75        .óá 27 .àé 95 01:33
 To   : Starwolf
 Subj : Re: Scope?
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 TH>Kubrick brought his vision to the screen and Clarke novelized the
 TH>film,

 St> Not quite.  Clarke wrote THE SENTINEL short story which gave rise to
 St> the idea of a film and then wrote 2001 and the film followed.  Proof?

 I have proof read Clarke introduction to the latest edition of 2001 in
 it he states that The Sentinel did not give rise to the idea for the film.
 Mow read the intro to 2010 in it Clarke stated that the book and movie 2001
 were made simultaneously. Clarke worked hand in hand with Kubrick. Feeback
 was given freely among them. The movie was released first followed a few months
 later by the book.

 St> In the book, the Discovery goes to Saturn, but in the film they go to
 St> Jupiter.  Why?  When they started the film they found out the effects
 St> technology of the time wasn't up to a convincing Saturn and they had
 St> to rewrite the story to have it take place around Jupiter instead.

 Kubrick rewrote the screenplay changing Saturn to Jupiter. Clarke elected
 to keep Saturn as the focal point in the book.


 St> Sure, the STAR WARS trilogy were razzle-dazzle fun, but they lacked the
 St> palpable depth of 2001.

 Agree



... Prune juice:  The drink of warriors everywhere!
--- Blue Wave/RA v2.12 [NR]
 * Origin:  Weyr Galifrey - Memphis, TN  +1.901.685.0017 (1:123/75)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 95 of 384
 From : Karmin St.jean                      1:321/309       .óá 27 .àé 95 08:57
 To   : Dave Whittier
 Subj : LOTTERYS IN THE MAIL
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 > Does the Vulcan Neck Pinch work by email?  Or by post?  Get the
 > picture?
 > These people want you to send money all over the country on the
 > promise
 > that IF everyone else does it, you'll be rich.  How do you "beat the
 > living daylights" out of a post office box?  It's not just a dumb
 > idea,
 > it's against the law.


Against the law? So is mail fraud. BTW, it's NOT against the law to give their
PO Box # to ALL the junk mail senders in the world. :) (heheh)

Also, NO! The VNP does NOT work by email or post. You have to FAX it. (heheh)

--- FLAME v1.1
 * Origin: Final Approach BBS - Spfld, MA (413)783-5853 (1:321/309)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 96 of 384
 From : Kay Shapero                         1:102/524       .óá 27 .àé 95 17:38
 To   : Frank Glover
 Subj : Re: The Lost Lines of Kirk
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <May 25 22:12>, Frank Glover (1:2613/477) wrote to Kay Shapero:

 FG>   ...Which are often the last two words on cockpit voice
 FG>recorders before the sound of impact. I suspect the writers knew
 FG>that!

So did I.  Which is what made it so entertaining; one more sign of Data's
humanity.

--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 97 of 384
 From : Patrick Thoms                       1:229/510       .óá 27 .àé 95 19:24
 To   : All
 Subj : what's in a name?
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Can anyone tell me that name of that 3rd Highlander movie? I've seen two
different versions and am not sure which one is the real one.
Highlander: The Sorcerer
        &
Highlander: The Final Dimension.
---
 þ OLX 2.1 TD þ Is it Immortal, or is it a Highlander.
--- FidoPCB v1.4 [ff238/x]
 * Origin: OnLine Now  Thunder Bay  ON, Canada (807)-345-1531 (1:229/510)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 98 of 384
 From : Todd Sullivan                       1:363/60        .óá 27 .àé 95 19:44
 To   : Jack Butler
 Subj : Stuff of TP, etc
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: FastEcho 1.41/g 10118

JB > Quoth Todd Sullivan, "Nevermore".
JB > TS> "MacGyver in the Old West" AKA "Legend".  Never watched it, but I
JB > TS> thought John DeLancie saying "Engage!" in one of the promos was a
JB > TS> hoot, along with the various "anachronisms" that made their
JB > TS> appearances, ie. that hang glider.

JB >     Haven't actually seen it yet, though I have been
JB >planning to.

Just with myself, it's your own fault :)
---
 * Origin: Fell From The Trap Door (407)382-2955 (1:363/60)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 99 of 384
 From : Brian Stoll                         1:260/801       .óá 27 .àé 95 19:47
 To   : Mark Jones
 Subj : Re: SLIDERS SEASON FINALE
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: FastEcho 1.41/g 7785
You mention a couple of possible outcomes, to the sliders season finale.
Too bad none of them are even remotely going to happen since they
cancelled it. Oh well, we will just have to find another show to enjoy
and watch it go away too.
Brian


... I used up all my sick days, so I'm calling in dead!!!
--- Blue Wave/RA v2.12 [NR]
 * Origin: The Barracks Rat BBS ][ *ZyXEL 19.2* Pine Valley, Ny (1:260/801)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 100 of 384
 From : Todd Sullivan                       1:363/60        .óá 27 .àé 95 19:51
 To   : Joel Jessup
 Subj : SeaQuest DSV 5/21/95
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: FastEcho 1.41/g 10118
* In a message originally to Arsenal, Joel Jessup said:

JJ > A> Lucus,Darwin is What his name(blank) are on a raft
JJ >Dagwood's the name
JJ > A> I heard from the ups that some of the crew won't be returning.
JJ > A> heard that Bridger is being reasigned and only
JJ > A> returning once in a while..
JJ > A> anyone heard any thing to the truth?
JJ >I haven't heard, but will post if I do...

LAst word was that SeaQuest's been renewed, but nothing more. They're going to
have to top (and explain how EVERYone survives :) ) the cliffhanger they gave
us.
On the bright side, there's plenty of opportunity to catch what we missed this
season.
---
 * Origin: Fell From The Trap Door (407)382-2955 (1:363/60)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 101 of 384
 From : Todd Sullivan                       1:363/60        .óá 27 .àé 95 19:58
 To   : Frank Eva
 Subj : B5 COMIC
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: FastEcho 1.41/g 10118
* In a message originally to All, Frank Eva said:

FE >According to the letters column in issue #5, DC Comics will
FE >be rotating
FE >teams of artists/writers. So, even though the current look
FE >has improved,
FE >there is no guarantee this same team will continue to
FE >produce the B5
FE >comic...

It seems (from similar changes at Marvel) that they're rotating the teams to
keep them from burning out, and to get a fresh look, ala' the long run John
Byrne had on Superman, Batman, and Marvel's X-Men and Avengers.  A different
look can do wonders, and saves the pencillers and inkers and writers from the
loony bin.
---
 * Origin: Fell From The Trap Door (407)382-2955 (1:363/60)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 102 of 384
 From : Todd Sullivan                       1:363/60        .óá 27 .àé 95 20:03
 To   : Frank Eva
 Subj : BEST SF
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: FastEcho 1.41/g 10118
* In a message originally to Scott Gates, Frank Eva said:

FE >SG "FE=>        Read Harlan Ellison's comments in the latest
FE >issue of
FE >SG "FE=>Sci-Fi Universe for his views on Star Trek (not that
FE >he is the
FE >SG "FE=>only authority who really counts, mind you...) They
FE >are truly
FE >SG "FE=>eye-opening! Even though he is a 'conceptual
FE >consultant' on B5,
FE >SG "FE=>he has some complaints about that show, too!
FE >SG "Harlan's problem with B5 is he doesn't get his way 110%
FE >of the time.
FE >SG "(the extra 10% comes when he does get his way, was
FE >wrong, and will
FE >SG "blame someone else.

FE >He did sound like a whiny baby in the SFU interview...

Harlan's been that way before all of us made our collective debut. I find his
general behavior amusing (looking at a child, I suppose), but he makes some good
points, especially if you've read "The Glass Teat" and "The Other Glass Teat".
Hmmmm, now there's an idea:  A B-5 version of TGT.  I wonder how long that would
last...
---
 * Origin: Fell From The Trap Door (407)382-2955 (1:363/60)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 103 of 384
 From : Todd Sullivan                       1:363/60        .óá 27 .àé 95 20:06
 To   : Rumble
 Subj : SeaQuest
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: FastEcho 1.41/g 10118
* In a message originally to John Kahane, Rumble said:

RR >Piccalo is obiously seaQuest's Quark. I think he's
RR >hilarious. I wonder waht the plots will be like next year. I
RR >think they need a mix. Some science plots to keep the scince
RR >fiction aspect up and some fantasy/action plots to keep
RR >another part of the audience. You have to admit that
RR >seaQuest has more action than any other sci-fi show.

Mostly because SQ is postulating that even though we might actually get a world
gov't that everyone accepts, it can't control everything, ie. the outlaw
whalers, that sleazeball general and his buddy that put Brody's mom on ice, etc.
Sorta like the US and its problems with its various agencies.
---
 * Origin: Fell From The Trap Door (407)382-2955 (1:363/60)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 104 of 384
 From : Todd Sullivan                       1:363/60        .óá 27 .àé 95 20:07
 To   : Rumble
 Subj : EARTH 2/SO LONG
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: FastEcho 1.41/g 10118
* In a message originally to Robert Lidgren, Rumble said:

RR >didint you hear? seaQuest was moved to wednsdays at eight.
RR >Besides 90210 ll the networks pulled their "powerhouse"
RR >shows from that time slot. They must be afraid of seaQuest
RR >or something.

More likely they don't want to kill NBC's chances of having a time slot of its
own.....Sorry, lost my mind for a second. :)
---
 * Origin: Fell From The Trap Door (407)382-2955 (1:363/60)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 105 of 384
 From : Todd Sullivan                       1:363/60        .óá 27 .àé 95 20:11
 To   : Rumble
 Subj : Re: SeaQuest Survives
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: FastEcho 1.41/g 10118
* In a message originally to Steven Wesen, Rumble said:

RR >Remeber the explosion on the alien ship was in the middle.
RR >They were on the outside, so they may survive. I know that
RR >some of them are goind to plus the seaQuest can reapare a
RR >hole in itself. It has bioginetic skin or something.

Perhaps, but that "hole" was half SeaQuest's beam across.  You might be right,
but SQ's going to need one hell of a rebuild...just similar enough to when they
scuttled SQ #1 to get your attention.
Kinda makes you wonder how they'll permanently kill her.  Overload the reastors
and set off the nukes?  No, that's been done THIS season...or will be in the
next's finale.
---
 * Origin: Fell From The Trap Door (407)382-2955 (1:363/60)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 106 of 384
 From : Todd Sullivan                       1:363/60        .óá 27 .àé 95 20:14
 To   : Jeff Kovach
 Subj : Sliders Continuity
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: FastEcho 1.41/g 10118
* In a message originally to Jack Butler, Jeff Kovach said:

JK >On 20 May 95  05:56:01 Jack Butler wrote...

JK >JB>      Heard the word through Entertainment Weekly's show.  Sliders has
JK >JB> been picked up for next season, and Jerry O'Connell is *still* going
JK >JB> to be a regular.      So yes, Quinn gets shot, but no, Quinn doesn't
JK >JB> die.

JK >To which Jeff Kovach replies...

JK >Seeing that FOX announced that they cancelled the show, is
JK >it possible that
JK >someone else picked it up or that it might go into
JK >syndication?

Syndication?  Not likely, as it has to run for 3 years (I think) before any show
can be syndicated.
Before you mention it, ST:TNG _was_ released in syndication, but that was after
20 years of re-runs, which were in syndication, and Roddenberry's reputation,
which was still solid after the aforementioned 20 yrs.
---
 * Origin: Fell From The Trap Door (407)382-2955 (1:363/60)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 107 of 384
 From : ROBERT LIDGREN                      1:134/10        .óá 27 .àé 95 21:49
 To   : ALL
 Subj : SLIDERS KILLED TOO!!
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Earth 2 is CANCELLED.  Didn't like that decsion at all.  Now Sliders has been
cancelled!  Two series with great promis have been zapped while SeaQuest DSV
has been retained.  Evil demons just might exist based on the facts above.

Hey, by the way, do letters from fans make ANY DIFFERENCE AT ALL at this point
in time???  I'd be interested in input from ANYONE on this.

I wonder if Babylon 5, ST Voyager, ST Deep Space 9 and X-Files will now be
cancelled too so the networks can bring back "Lost in Space:  The 90's
edition":  AAARRRRGhhhhhhhh!!!

Is there any GOOD NEWS out there???
--- PCBoard 15.2
 * Origin: 32 lines 40 Gig BBS, Realtime InterNet SLIP (403)299-9900 (1:134/10)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 108 of 384
 From : Myranya Werlemann                   2:283/1701      .òp 30 .àé 95 08:37
 To   : Jack Butler
 Subj : Directorial Trademarks
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 -=> Quoting Jack Butler to Myranya Werlemann <=-

 MW> I can see how you can include 'See you next Wednesday' in a movie,
 MW> but "Klaatu Beratis Nikto"??? What movie(s) is that from???
 MW> I'm not that good when it comes to who directs what...
 JB> Its originally a line from "The Day The Earth Stood Still".
 JB> (It's the command given to Gort the robot.)

 Doesn't 'directorial trademark' means it's included in all the movies
 from that director, though? How in the big wide world is he gonna
 put that line in all the movies???? I mean, the numbers, okay. 'See
 you next Wednesday', harder, but it'll work. "K. B. N." -?!? Or
 does he have the robot as a directorial trademark, too? <G>

 Greetx,

 Myranya.

... "If you let it, it'll almost fly itself."
--- Blue Wave/RA v2.12 [NR]
 * Origin: EMICLAER BBS +31-33-553286 (2:283/1701)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 109 of 384
 From : VINCENT MCCONNELL                   1:2601/574      .óá 20 .àé 95 07:15
 To   : PATRICK THOMS
 Subj : Re: what's in a name?
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 -=> Quoting Patrick Thoms to All <=-

 PT> Can anyone tell me that name of that 3rd Highlander movie? I've seen
 PT> two different versions and am not sure which one is the real one.
 PT> Highlander: The Sorcerer
 PT> &
 PT> Highlander: The Final Dimension.

In the States it's the latter, elsewhere, the former.


... "Could you continue your petty bickering? I find it most intriguing."
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

--- GOMail v2.0v5 Beta [94-0191]
 * Origin: Image Gallery, 28.8, Internet, Adult and more! (1:2601/574)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 110 of 384
 From : Brian Henderson                     1:207/241       .óá 20 .àé 95 15:32
 To   : Richard Yamagata
 Subj : B5 Ripoff: Ds9
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Richard Yamagata wrote about B5 Ripoff: Ds9

RY> I usually only quote 5 lines per post, but this needed setting up.
RY> In defense of Robyn, I have to agree with her about B5.  It does
RY> take an investment of time to follow it and the plotlines do not end
RY> neatly.

<Snip of lots of great examples>

I'm not saying that Robyn was wrong.  I said that B5 *WAS* an investment of
time and that is what I like about it.  The plotlines *WILL* end neatly at the
end of the series, I assume, but you do have to spend some time thinking about
the show.  That is one of it's best qualities.

You said at the end that "unfortunately, B5 is not like Star Trek".  There is
nothing unfortunate about it.  It is not supposed to be like Star Trek, and if
it was, I certainly wouldn't watch it.

... "Babylon 5 was a dream given form..." B5

___
 X RM 1.3  X Eval Day -25 X

--- Maximus 2.02
 * Origin: The Belching Dragon Inn & Tavern (1:207/241)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 111 of 384
 From : Brian Henderson                     1:207/241       .óá 20 .àé 95 15:36
 To   : Frank Swarbrick
 Subj : B5 Ripoff: Ds9
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Frank Swarbrick wrote about B5 Ripoff: Ds9

FS> Actually, the Shadow attack on the Narn vessel in the openning
FS> credits is from "Revelations," the second episode of the second
FS> season.

<SMACK!>  You're right.  Whoops.

... "This is starting to sound like a really BAD Trek episode."

___
 X RM 1.3  X Eval Day -25 X

--- Maximus 2.02
 * Origin: The Belching Dragon Inn & Tavern (1:207/241)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 112 of 384
 From : Brian Henderson                     1:207/241       .óá 20 .àé 95 15:37
 To   : Richard Yamagata
 Subj : B5 Vs St
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Richard Yamagata wrote about B5 Vs St

RY> Brian, you have really hit the nail on the head.  I just kept
RY> watching IN THE SHADOW OF Z'HA DUM over and over trying to get more
RY> out of it.  Watching the coming attraction for the next episode,
RY> KNIVES, it just forces you to watch the next episode to find out if
RY> there was a price for the actions Sheridan took in the present
RY> episode!

Absolutely.  I think I've seen most of the heavy arc episodes at least 5-6
times now.  You just have to keep going back and picking up the clues in light
of new information.  My next episode will be "Deathwalker" to try to piece
together the Kosh/Talia angle.

RY> Another astute observation, the world of "downunder" is so
RY> un-Utopian and so realistic -- that is part of the magic of B5!!!

B5 *HAS* magic.  It makes you look forward to the next episode.  I can't say
that in all the years I watched Star Trek, even TOS, I ever cared what
happened the next week, simply because it was so disjointed from the action of
this week.  So what?  B5 is a show that appeals to fans of written sci-fi.
Star Trek, apparently, is for those who have very short attention spans and
the inability to commit to a long-term relationship, at least in entertainment
terms.

... A bad episode of B5 is better than ANY TNG/DSN episode!

___
 X RM 1.3  X Eval Day -25 X

--- Maximus 2.02
 * Origin: The Belching Dragon Inn & Tavern (1:207/241)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 113 of 384
 From : Brian Henderson                     1:207/241       .óá 20 .àé 95 15:41
 To   : Frank Eva
 Subj : Old Vs New
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Frank Eva wrote about Old Vs New

FE> I wish I could be like you... I recently watched an episode of UFO
FE> (the series by Gerry Anderson that he did right before Space 1999)
FE> on the Sci-Fi Channel, and it was so dated, I just thought it was
FE> stupid...

But I *LIKE* stupid movies as well as the old 30s serials.  In fact, I have
dozens of them on tape... Buck Rogers, Flash Gordon, Radar Men on the Moon,
etc.  It's an acquired taste, certainly, but one worth cultivating IMO.

... "I though you said your dog didn't bite."  "That's *not* MY dog!"

___
 X RM 1.3  X Eval Day -25 X

--- Maximus 2.02
 * Origin: The Belching Dragon Inn & Tavern (1:207/241)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 114 of 384
 From : VINCENT MCCONNELL                   1:2601/574      .óá 20 .àé 95 21:53
 To   : ALL
 Subj : Sliders
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
I really wish the execs/writers at SLIDERS would start reconsidering their
plots and tackling some of the more interesting aspects of world-hopping.
They have one of the biggest potentials of any show to date, but they've
been wasting it (for the most part) on very trivial and minute things.

I like the show.  But it could do so much more.   The pilot, "Woman World",
and the Finale are the only three that really come close to how great the
show could be.  "Hippie World", "Slider is Elvis World", etc, may be mildly
entertaining, but mildly entertaining shows don't last a long time on the
most part.  The ones that survive are usually the memorable ones...


... AD&D Lesson #126 - Don't play fetch the stick with Cerebus.
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

--- GOMail v2.0v5 Beta [94-0191]
 * Origin: Image Gallery, 28.8, Internet, Adult and more! (1:2601/574)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 115 of 384
 From : VINCENT MCCONNELL                   1:2601/574      .cê 21 .àé 95 13:42
 To   : TONY LIMBERT
 Subj : X-FILES = GENESIS?
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
--+:Tony Limbert spake thusly:+-

 TL> Ok gang! We all saw Friday's episode.... sooooooo

 TL> Does anyone else here smell GENESIS by W. A. HARBINSON?

 TL> Smallpox Vaccination... hmmm.....
 TL>
 TL> TL

 TL> [ Can you say entered another car? Buried himself under the bodies? ]


Yeah, it wasn't much of a cliffhanger as season finales go, but nevertheless
was a good episode.  I also enjoyed the trailer, "Secrets of the X-Files".

... My other vehicle is a Super Star Destroyer.
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

--- GOMail v2.0v5 Beta [94-0191]
 * Origin: Image Gallery, 28.8, Internet, Adult and more! (1:2601/574)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 116 of 384
 From : Pramod Korathota                    3:712/505       .pä 24 .àé 95 17:48
 To   : Rumble
 Subj : The New Sq Series..
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Yello Rumble,

On the 18-5, Rumble rumbled something like this :)

RR> seaQuest is in BIG TROUBLE. But it has been renewed
RR> again. It will air on Wendsays here.

   Well, let's all hope that SeaQuest will pull it itself o
ut of trouble.

   Have u seen the new series (the 3rd one) yet? How waz it??
Who were the cast, like how many of the old cast is still around?
Have they thrown Bridger out and made Lucus Captain?? The way the
shows been going, it sure lookes like it eh?

   And hows the boat doing?? Is it bigger and badder? Does the
interior look any different, and how waz the scripts??

   A lotta questions, I know :). But I'm like dying to know..
BTW, you might have noticed that I really don't like the producers
attempts to make SeaQuest like 90210, or Melrose Place etc?? Well
I'd like to say that I *REALLY* don't want it to be that way.. Anyway,
to the point...would you be suprised if I said that I am 17, no joke!

   What I mean is, most of my friends from my fav BBS (who r about my
age) also do not want SeaQuest to become like 90210.. What everyone
really seems to want is proper sci-fi, don't the producers get that??

BTW, who are your favourite authors?? I like Raymod E Fiest, David
Eddings, Isaac Asimov, A C Clarke, Robert Jordan etc... :)

bye 4 now,
pramod...


___
 X RM 1.3  X Eval Day -37 X

--- Maximus/2 2.02
 * Origin: Sydney PC Users Group Mail Exchange (3:712/505)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 117 of 384
 From : Dexter Fernandez                    1:203/1701      .åò 25 .àé 95 04:20
 To   : John Kahane
 Subj : Re: SLIDERS
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
"So, Kahane, we meet for the first time for the last time!"

 JK> While this is true, there's been little word on this.  JMS
 JK> recently said that they pitched the next season and other stuff to the
 JK> PTEN folks, and will hear about renewal by the end of May.

I just read in the Sacramento Bee that they killed Sliders....:(

Ah, well..it was fun while it lasted...

Curzon Dex
EchoSliderVolehunter
Moderator, Terok Nor Echo

... "Rambo, what mean...expendable?"
--- Blue Wave/TG v2.12 [NR]
 * Origin: The Itchy & Scratchy Show (916) 721-1701 (1:203/1701.0)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 118 of 384
 From : Jack Butler                         1:363/309       .ÿò 26 .àé 95 06:36
 To   : Myra I Fox
 Subj : Highlander Scedule
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 Quoth Myra I Fox, "Nevermore".

 MIF> Oh, I didn't know she was definitely gone... I figured that she would
 MIF> come back into the storyline later... oh, well <sigh>.

     It is beginning to look like she may actually show up for an episode
or two in the fourth season.

     BTW, the premiere of the 4th season is being directed by Adrian Paul,
and will feature several scenes which were filmed in Scotland.


 MIF> I look forward to seeing Methos again, he was quite interesting but
 MIF> he disappeared right after we "met" him.

     He'll be back, at the very least for the finale of season 3.

     Jack Butler
     Highlander Guru


... "It's about coincidence." -- Richie Ryan
--- FMail 0.98a
 * Origin: Forethought BBS -=- Orlando FL -=- 407-277-7530 (1:363/309)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 119 of 384
 From : Jack Butler                         1:363/309       .ÿò 26 .àé 95 06:40
 To   : Myra I Fox
 Subj : X-Files Finale
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 Quoth Myra I Fox, "Nevermore".

 MIF> And if you are interested in way out conspiracy theories he now
 MIF> moderates the MufoNet CONSPIRACY echo.

     ROFL!  Thanks, Myra, but no thanks.  I got enough to worry about with
the "real world" conspiracies (i.e., the Religious Reich and their hidden
agenda) to get involved in the really strange stuff...


 MIF> I *liked* him.  And did you notice he seemed as surprised as
 MIF> everyone else that there was Mulder wasn't in the boxcar?

     Yeah.  Makes my theory even more plausible.


 MIF> I think she is open to finding the truth both for Mulder's
 MIF> sake and because she wants to know why her name is in that
 MIF> file.

     This might be it.


 MIF> Why didn't that hacker take a few minutes and start his
 MIF> computer downloading that file to different bbs's? He could
 MIF> have started that going automatically and he still could
 MIF> have been out of there with his copy.  And just what *did*
 MIF> happen to him?  Did they mention and maybe I missed it?

     Yeah, they mentioned it.  Cancer man said "the young man who stole it"
meaning the file "has come forward."  The Hacker apparently told "Them"
(whoever *they* are...) that he gave the files to Mulder... and I don't
get the feeling that he told "Them" willingly...


 JB> PS  I think I know how Mulder got out of the buried refrigeration
 JB> car.

 MIF> I would love to hear your theory.... more than one boxcar
 MIF> connected to that one?  he's buried under the bodies?  he
 MIF> got beamed up to the mother ship?

     Heh.  I'm keeping mum (don't want to look like a fool if I turn out to
be off-base), but you are close...

     Jack Butler




... "Unless there was a neon sign saying `dig here'." -- Mulder
--- FMail 0.98a
 * Origin: Forethought BBS -=- Orlando FL -=- 407-277-7530 (1:363/309)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 120 of 384
 From : Jack Butler                         1:363/309       .ÿò 26 .àé 95 06:44
 To   : Chris Carter
 Subj : Kosh's Karaoke machine
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 Quoth Chris Carter, "Nevermore".

 CC> Garibaldi, wearing civvies, is followed closely by Ambassador Kosh
 CC> and Lennier into Babylon 5's baseball park.

 <...>

 CC> Sheridan, looking perplexed, asks the computer to initiate batting
 CC> practice.

     You sick, sick little monkey.  <G>

     Jack Butler



... "Don't be so happy to see me." -- Quark
--- FMail 0.98a
 * Origin: Forethought BBS -=- Orlando FL -=- 407-277-7530 (1:363/309)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 121 of 384
 From : Jack Butler                         1:363/309       .ÿò 26 .àé 95 06:48
 To   : John Kahane
 Subj : Confessions et. al.
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
     The rat-bastards who run WOFL, FOX 35 decided that Confessions and
Lamentations was just a bit too intense, so they re-ran Knives instead.  Do
me a favor, if you will, and netmail me as detailed a synopsis of that
episode as you can, please...

     God, I hate censors...

     Jack Butler




... "Blood calls out for blood." -- Londo Molari
--- FMail 0.98a
 * Origin: Forethought BBS -=- Orlando FL -=- 407-277-7530 (1:363/309)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 122 of 384
 From : Frank Eva                           1:154/750       .ÿò 26 .àé 95 08:08
 To   : Starwolf
 Subj : ST: Voyager
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: FastEcho 1.42.b9 8060
S "But I'm getting disenchanted with that universe.  It is really
S "getting sloppy and badly written.  In an earlier episode, Janeway
S "warned the race of monumentally ugly phage victims to lay off her
S "crew.  So, what happens?  They are at it again a couple of weeks ago.
S "What does she do?  Nothing, beyond grabbing her people and
S "hightailing it out of there.

I'm getting more and more disenchanted with STV, too, but not for the
same reasons. I simply found the last few episodes to be rehashes of
previous stories, like "Faces", which is a blatant rehash of the ST:TOS
episode "The Enemy Within". "Jetrell" was so dull and boring, it
reminded me of a public service announcement. Finally, bloated
technobabble in "Learning Curve" was countered with totally predictable
cadet indoctrination. These writers really need the summer off! :-)

--- CMPQwk 1.42-R2 #145 ---
Confuse the world... smile all day Monday!

---
 * Origin: *YOPS ]I[* 2.2 Gig * RA/FD/FE RADist * Milwaukee, WI (1:154/750)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 123 of 384
 From : Frank Eva                           1:154/750       .ÿò 26 .àé 95 08:08
 To   : Frank Swarbrick
 Subj : B5 TALK
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: FastEcho 1.42.b9 8060
FS "he's not in every episode, but than neither should Mira Furlan
FS "(Delenn).  In fact, she's probably my least favorite character.

She used to be one of my favorites, before she underwent the "change"...

--- CMPQwk 1.42-R2 #145 ---
OK, I'm weird! But I'm saving up to be eccentric.

---
 * Origin: *YOPS ]I[* 2.2 Gig * RA/FD/FE RADist * Milwaukee, WI (1:154/750)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 124 of 384
 From : Frank Eva                           1:154/750       .ÿò 26 .àé 95 08:08
 To   : Robert Lidgren
 Subj : White Dwarf
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: FastEcho 1.42.b9 8060
RL "Okay, Francis Ford Coppola's name is an instant draw for me.  Now I
RL "see that a TV Movie called White Dwarf is on its way.  So far I've
RL "only been able to glean
RL "tidbits about the film from the promos.  Has anyone else come across
RL "any further information they might share here??

Yeah, it was very difficult to follow, and kind of boring... He should
change his name to Crappola... :-)

---
 * Origin: *YOPS ]I[* 2.2 Gig * RA/FD/FE RADist * Milwaukee, WI (1:154/750)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 125 of 384
 From : VINCENT MCCONNELL                   1:2601/574      .ÿò 26 .àé 95 12:11
 To   : JEFF KOVACH
 Subj : Sliders Continuity
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
--+:Jeff Kovach spake thusly:+-

 JK> Seeing that FOX announced that they cancelled the show, is it possible
 JK> that someone else picked it up or that it might go into syndication?

When'd they announce this and where?

... "Bother," said Pooh, as all the women sniffed.
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

--- GOMail v2.0v5 Beta [94-0191]
 * Origin: Image Gallery, 28.8, Internet, Adult and more! (1:2601/574)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 126 of 384
 From : Karmin St.Jean                      1:321/325       .ÿò 26 .àé 95 17:25
 To   : Dave Whittier
 Subj : Lotterys In The Mail
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Well, actually, you have to give the Vulcan Neck Pinch over a fax
machine. Beating the living daylights out of a post office box
(especially someone else's) is illegal, however it is not against the
law to give someone's post office box number to all the junk mail
senders in the world!

--- PCBoard (R) v15.21/M 10
 * Origin:  (1:321/325)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 127 of 384
 From : Starwolf                            1:163/214       .ÿò 26 .àé 95 19:24
 To   : Demian Katz
 Subj : Re: Earth 2/So Long
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

DK>Earth 2 will be missed...  It's my second favorite sci-fi show ever,

That it had potential, there was no doubt.  But it went to the other
extreme from the usual "cosmic events resolved in one, fourty-five
minute episode" and dragged things out waayy to long.  It would have
made a terrific two-part film, two hours each, but a whole season of
this drawn-out story ... no.

 * SLMR 2.1a * "Conserve material:  wear a mini-skirt today!"

--- Maximus 2.01wb
 * Origin: Land of Ill Repute (1:163/214)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 128 of 384
 From : Starwolf                            1:163/214       .ÿò 26 .àé 95 19:30
 To   : Denis Lamy
 Subj : Purpose of ST-DSN & ST-V
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

DL>But when ST-DSN and ST-V start, we only get some kind of elevator music,
DL>no message, no word, nothing.

What would you say?  As far as DEEP-SIXED NINE is concerned, they're
just a customs shed for the Wormhole.  Kinda hard to give it a noble
sense of purpose.  And for VOYAGER, you'd have the problem of telling
the story, without making it sound like LOST IN SPACE all over again.
Which, come to think of it, it is.

DL> * VbReader 2.22 #67 * Tact: decrire les autres comme il se voit eux-meme.

Bien dit!


 * SLMR 2.1a * Politically Correct Zone:  no thinking allowed.

--- Maximus 2.01wb
 * Origin: Land of Ill Repute (1:163/214)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 129 of 384
 From : Skip Shayotovich                    1:161/42        .ÿò 26 .àé 95 20:22
 To   : Jeff Kovach
 Subj : SLIDERS SEASON FINALE
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 = A long time ago, in a galaxy far, far away, Jeff said: =

 JK> Or the idiots could cancel the show, like I read in this morning's
 JK> paper.

     That's what I read too... cancelled, but not dead.  It MIGHT show
up as a mid-season replacement.  For PARTY OF FIVE no doubt (one could
only hope).

--- FLAME v1.1
 * Origin: Records Department TBBS - Pleasanton, CA (510) 426-0470 (1:161/42)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 130 of 384
 From : Skip Shayotovich                    1:161/42        .ÿò 26 .àé 95 20:23
 To   : Jack Butler
 Subj : SLIDERS-LUCK OF THE DRAW
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 = A long time ago, in a galaxy far, far away, Jack said: =

 FS> Question is now, will it be picked up in the fall?

 JB> So far, all indications are good.

     Oh ya?  Where did you read this, cause I read in my newspaper
that it, along with VR5, had been canceled.  It wasn't dead though...
it MIGHT show up a mid-season replacement.

--- FLAME v1.1
 * Origin: Records Department TBBS - Pleasanton, CA (510) 426-0470 (1:161/42)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 131 of 384
 From : Starwolf                            1:163/214       .óá 27 .àé 95 00:37
 To   : Chris Carter
 Subj : B5 Baseball
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

CC>Garibaldi, wearing civvies, is followed closely by Ambassador Kosh
CC>and Lennier into Babylon 5's baseball park.

I wondered about that.  In the opening film, you've got the captain
commenting to Deleen that it was real tricky, what with the huge space
needed for life support and other essential functions, to have this
teeny, tiny space set aside for a Zen garden.

But they had the room to spare for a baseball diamond???

Must have been written by a baseball fan.

 * SLMR 2.1a * "Opposites attract.  Example:  LONG hair and SHORT skirt"

--- Maximus 2.01wb
 * Origin: Land of Ill Repute (1:163/214)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 132 of 384
 From : VINCENT MCCONNELL                   1:2601/574      .óá 27 .àé 95 01:38
 To   : MARK JONES
 Subj : Star Wars
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
--+:Mark Jones spake thusly:+-

First off, I have yet to see any official quotes from Lucas/Lucasfilm/Lucasart
saying any other date but 97 for the remakes of the old movies and "soon
thereafter" for 1-3.  This discussion is based on rumor and fan speculation
which turned into "good sources" about the new movies, and has been going
on for years now.  Lucas/Film/Arts has released several statements actually
confirming this one.

 MJ> ...because he's out of ideas.  He has no clue what to do next, and
 MJ> is "vamping" desperately, hoping to come up with something.  (People
 MJ> have been hearing this "any day now" stuff for nearly twenty years.
 MJ> It would be embarrassing to admit that the well is dry.)

If Lucas were out of ideas he would get someone to write them for him.  It's
that simple.  He has NOT been delaying these films, because there have
been no official releases before the 1998 one.  And the fact remains that
if he were out of ideas... someone else would write them.

 MJ> ...because he doesn't *want* to do it, but can't find a way to
 MJ> gracefully back out of it.  (People have been hearing this "any day
 MJ> now" stuff for nearly twenty years.  It would be embarrassing to admit
 MJ> that he just doesn't want to do it.)

If he didn't want to do them he would not.  People have been hearing BS
for years now, and until it was confirmed they never actually *expected*
anything.  If he didn't want to do them it would have been oh-so-easy
to have done just that.

 MJ> ...because keeping the hope alive helps fan the flames, selling
 MJ> videos, toys, games and whatnot to all the fans who continue to slaver
 MJ> for more; i.e., pure cynical profiteering.

The SW re-hype has been doing well enough without hope of a new movie in
1998/99.  The fact is, not many read SW Insider, and the merchandise
is just appealing in itself to a crowd.


... "Mia ayende, Aes Sedai" - Mat Cauthon
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

--- GOMail v2.0v5 Beta [94-0191]
 * Origin: Image Gallery, 28.8, Internet, Adult and more! (1:2601/574)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 133 of 384
 From : Pamela Crossett                     1:325/118       .óá 27 .àé 95 01:51
 To   : Jack Butler
 Subj : Highlander
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 JB> All the information I have says she is gone like Banquo.

God I hate to sound illiterate, but then I hated almost all of
Shakespeare's tragedies. So just how did Banquo disappear?

 JB>  I don't know about you, but every rushed relationship I have ever
 JB> been party to falls apart fairly quickly.

Well, perhaps I am extremely unusual but I rushed into my only two
relationships - and the first lasted over 2 1/2 years and the second is
still going on, almost 7 years now.

Of course, I will admit that the majority of "rushed relationships" do
seem to bite the dust, as statistics bear out. But statistics are only
numbers, and by their very nature they indicate that if 90% fail, then 10%
DON'T - or if they average only 3 or 4 months, then for everyone that last
one night, there are those that last 4 or 5 years.

About how long, chronologically, would you estimate Duncan and Anne's went
on (for it's abysmally short period) anyway?

 JB> talks with Sheena Easton have broken down for the forseeable future.

Well, she will be an asset when and if they get her.

 JB> As for Peter Wingfield (the gentleman who played Methos) he will be
 JB> back in the season Finale, and again next season in a kind of "Obi
 JB> Wan Kenobi" role.

I will look forward to both. He was great.

Was he ever in the series before this season's two-parter?

 JB> Speaking of, next season is Season Four, the last year of the
 JB> contract. Whether or not there will be a season five is still up in
 JB> the air.

What is "the contract" - Fox's contract w/Adrian Paul, the owners of the
Highlander concepts contract w/Fox?? What?

 JB> Also, there are supposedly "big changes" in store for the show.

Come on - give me a hint.

Actually, give me more than a hint. I want all the details. I want it all.
Can you arrange that?

Now, I just read this is one of your postings to someone else:

 JB> Not only will Richie be back next season, but so will Methos and
 JB> Amanda.

Well, obviously, then the "big changes will not be Ritchie's demise. So
What are they?

 JB> I cannot wait for the finale.  The final fight with Kallas was
 JB> filmed on the *real* Eiffel Tower.  I wonder how they turned that
 JB> little trick...

Once again you have more insider information. And you didn't explain how
you get it. Now if you want to keep your source a secret, fine. I'll try
to stop asking.

But don't stop talking to me.

I really appreciate all your input.

Pam

___
 This copy of Freddie 1.2.5 is being evaluated.

--- Maximus/2 2.02
 * Origin: The Ozone Layer, Williston, VT. (802) 862-5058 (1:325/118)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 134 of 384
 From : Tammy Blandino                      1:106/7315      .óá 27 .àé 95 02:44
 To   : Andrew Clarke
 Subj : Re: Enterprise
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
While skinny dipping Andrew Clarke was talking to Kay Shapero
about Re: Enterprise.

 JH>        I think that's it, unless you want to go into the whole
 JH>_how do
 JH> people avoid walking into the holo-deck wall again?_ thing,

 KS> Hmm... maybe they DON'T avoid walking into the holo-deck
 KS> wall... and that explains most of the rest of your
 KS> questions... :->

 AC> I've always figured that the floor moved under them so they could go
 AC> as far as they wanted.  If anyone with a Tech manual is reading
 AC> this...help us out.
 AC> Andrew Clarke


 A friend of mine once said that the holodeck would have worked better
 as sphere instead of a box.  The sphere would turn as you walked giving
 the illusion of moving while staying in the same place.



... Long live Middle-age Mutant Ninja SysOps!
--- FreeMail & Blue Wave/TAG v2.12
 * Origin: The Wizard's Realm ** (713) 946-7315 ** (1:106/7315)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 135 of 384
 From : Tammy Blandino                      1:106/7315      .óá 27 .àé 95 02:47
 To   : James Walton
 Subj : Re: Directorial Trademarks
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
While skinny dipping James Walton was talking to Jack Butler about
Re: Directorial Trademarks.

 JW> You were speaking about the "Clone Wars" from Star Wars when you
 JW> said:
 > Palpatine to overthrow the Old Republic.  I'm not sure who the
 > sides were (except that the phrases "Lords of Sith" have been associated
 > with them), but
 JW>
 JW> From what I have read, there can be only one "Dark Lord of the Sith"
 JW> at a time.  During the three Star Wars movies this position was held
 JW> by Darth Vader.  (If I remember correctly, in the Star Wars
 JW> novelization that came out 2 years before the first movie, Vader was
 JW> addressed as  "My Dark Lord Vader of the Sith.")

 You know I would dearly like to see the source for this information.
 Unfortunately I don't have my copy of the books where I can grab them,
 but I seem to remember something somewhere about "Sith Lords", describing
 them as existing at the same time.

 Please let us know WHERE you read this information.



... God made whiskey to keep the Irish from ruling the world!
--- FreeMail & Blue Wave/TAG v2.12
 * Origin: The Wizard's Realm ** (713) 946-7315 ** (1:106/7315)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 136 of 384
 From : Tammy Blandino                      1:106/7315      .óá 27 .àé 95 02:52
 To   : Colin Dijkgraaf
 Subj : Coen
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
While skinny dipping Colin Dijkgraaf was talking to Marco Catalano
about Re: Can you hear me (#4).

 MC> Please forgive my curiousity, Colin, but are you or one of your
 MC> parents Dutch? Your family-name, "Dijkgraaf", is a typical Dutch name.

 CD> Not just one parent, both parents, and I'm Dutch also, although I
 CD> wasn't born in the Netherlands but Suriname.  I did live in the
 CD> Netherlands for five years and have been back for a visit in 1990.
 CD> And just to clarify Colin isn't the name that is on my birth
 CD> certificate it is Coen, but since that can be a deragatory term in
 CD> English I was  advised by Imegration to change it.

 I find that interesting because I can't think of any derogatory term
 that they might have been thinking about in regards to the name.  Perhaps
 I am pronouncing it wrong.  How do you pronounce it?

 Frankly I think (in regards to names) that imigration has its head up
 its collective arse.



... I told her to expect you to deny everything. -- Calvin
--- FreeMail & Blue Wave/TAG v2.12
 * Origin: The Wizard's Realm ** (713) 946-7315 ** (1:106/7315)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 137 of 384
 From : Tammy Blandino                      1:106/7315      .óá 27 .àé 95 03:23
 To   : Michelle Willey
 Subj : RE: VOYAGER NOSE DIVING?
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
While skinny dipping Michelle Willey was talking to Frank Eva about
RE: VOYAGER NOSE DIVING?.

 MW> On 17 May 95 07:36am, FRANK EVA wrote to ALL:

 FE> Is it just me, or does it seem like ST:Voyager is already seeming a bit
 FE> worn out? Doesn't it seem like ST:V is going "where everyone has gone
 FE> already"? Looks like Neelix is ST:V's answer to ST:TNG's Barclay... If
 FE> it's medical, Neelix is the one who gets it. "Jetrell" had to be easily
 FE> the most boring Star Trek episode I've ever seen. It could have been a
 FE> public service announcement against the depredations of scientists and
 FE> the weapons they help to create...

 MW> I got to admit it doesn't bother me much if I miss an episode.
 MW> However, I like the character of Neelix. He injects a bit of humor and
 MW> common sense into an otherwise unexceptional show. Likewise the doctor.
 MW> The stories themselves do seem to be same ole, same ole. --Mich

 Aw Come on guys.  It the first season, give it a break.  We know the
 team of Berman, Pillar, and Taylor can do some really wonderful stuff.
 Give 'em a chance.  Sheesh.  It seems like everytime there's a new ST
 everyone boohoo's it, but a few give it a chance and stick with it.
 Each one of the series since TOS has gone through this experience.

 If you really feel the need to bitch, write to ST at Paramount and
 EXPLAIN (not gripe) what you disliked, or even liked.  It would be more
 constructive.

 Hey, (for you B5 fans) even B5 got off to a slow start.  Remember that
 first season?


... "Bother" said Pooh as Kirk beamed him down in a red shirt.
--- FreeMail & Blue Wave/TAG v2.12
 * Origin: The Wizard's Realm ** (713) 946-7315 ** (1:106/7315)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 138 of 384
 From : Tammy Blandino                      1:106/7315      .óá 27 .àé 95 03:37
 To   : Myranya Werlemann
 Subj : Re: Directorial Trademarks
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
While skinny dipping Myranya Werlemann was talking to Jack Butler about
Directorial Trademarks.

 -=> Quoting Jack Butler to Marco Catalano <=-

 JB> Lucas's trademark is the numbers 1138.  They appear in every one
 JB> of his films *somehow*.
 MW> [   ]
 MW> That's really interesting. Do you know _why_ it's 1138?

 The very first movie George Lucas *EVER* made was a science fiction movie
 called _THX 1138_.  Since then he uses over and over.  In the novelized
 version of Star Wars, The Imperial that is trying to contact the
 Stormtrooper whose armor Han appropriated, That Imperial identified that
 Stormtrooper as THX 1138.  Of course this was changed in the movie.  :)

 Now, Lucas' movie empire has created the latest state of the art sound
 system which they call....THX Sound.....

 I've seen a few movies in auditoriums that have had THX Sound.  Talk about
 mindblowing!  It leaves Dolby Stereo in the *DUST*!

 B> Besides Hitchcock and his cameo's, and Spielberg and his falling
 JB> stars, there's John Landis and the phrase "See you next Wednesday", and
 JB> Sam Raimi's inclusion of "Klaatu Beratis Nikto".

 MW> I can see how you can include 'See you next Wednesday' in a movie,
 MW> but "Klaatu Beratis Nikto"??? What movie(s) is that from???
 MW> I'm not that good when it comes to who directs what...

 "Klaatu Beratis Nikto" is from _The Day The Earth Stood Still_ .  That
 was the phrase that stopped the giant robot from destroying everything.

 I've seen it parodied in a number of movies...the most recent being
 _Army of Darkness_, an absolutely hilarious spoof...from which my
 tagline comes from... :)



... Good... Bad... I'm the guy with the gun! -- Ash
--- FreeMail & Blue Wave/TAG v2.12
 * Origin: The Wizard's Realm ** (713) 946-7315 ** (1:106/7315)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 139 of 384
 From : Jack Butler                         1:363/309       .óá 27 .àé 95 04:56
 To   : John Kahane
 Subj : B5, B9
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 Quoth John Kahane, "Nevermore".

 JK> Flattery won't get you anywhere with this one, Jack.  But it's
 JK> the truth of the matter, and you made my (unstated) point for me.
 JK> They could only come up with *one* example of what we're talking
 JK> about.

     Yes, and they wave it in our faces like it was the Holy Grail, or the
Unified Field Theory... we ask about *fleets* of living ships, and they give
us an individual specimen.  Hardly convincing...

     Jack Butler



... "Must go home and kill parents." -- Mike Nelson
--- FMail 0.98a
 * Origin: Forethought BBS -=- Orlando FL -=- 407-277-7530 (1:363/309)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 140 of 384
 From : Jack Butler                         1:363/309       .óá 27 .àé 95 04:58
 To   : Marc Zingarelli
 Subj : Highlander Scedule
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 Quoth Marc Zingarelli, "Nevermore".

 MZ> Methos is always good for a few laughs.  BTW I couldn't find the his
 MZ> last  episode on tape which means my wife must've forgot to record it.
 MZ> Hard as  that is to believe since she's the Highlander Goddess.

     When Methos first appeared, my reaction was "Cool, a laid back
immortal.  Bout damned time!"

     And about your wife:  remember, accidents do happen.  Forgive her and
let her back in the house... <G, D, R>

     BTW, the latest word is that Annie will be returning for at least a
couple of eps in season 4.

     Jack Butler
     Highlander Guru


... "The boredom of my life would kill you." -- Duncan MacLeod
--- FMail 0.98a
 * Origin: Forethought BBS -=- Orlando FL -=- 407-277-7530 (1:363/309)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 141 of 384
 From : Steven Wirsz                        1:377/50        .óá 27 .àé 95 09:45
 To   : Brian Henderson
 Subj : B5 Ripoff: Ds9
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
BH****Refresh my memory.  What story was TNG trying to tell?  Man is obnoxious?
BH****cannot see *ANYTHING* even *RESEMBLING* a storyline in TNG, DS9 *OR* Voyag

ST:TOS - Man will survive through resourcefulness
ST:TNG - Socialist Utopias (The "enlightened" Federation) will
         save the universe
ST:DS9 -   ""
ST:Voy -   ""

B5     - Got two or three pages to spare??
---
 * OLX 2.2 * "Press to test." <click> "Release to detonate."
--- FidoPCB v1.4 [ff083/x]
 * Origin: The GIFfer BBS, 175,000+files (813)969-1089 USR/V.all (1:377/50)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 142 of 384
 From : Steven Wirsz                        1:377/50        .óá 27 .àé 95 09:48
 To   : John Kahane
 Subj : B5 TALK
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
JK****     Aww, you noticed. :)  Seriously though, that's one of the things that
JK****really annoys me about BABYLON 5.  The show is definitely *not* on in prim
JK****time in the area I get it.  Unless prime time has been moved to midnight!

Here and in most places I've seen it, PTEN programs definetly do come on
in prime time.  Try 8:00 PM Wed - and the repeat 11:00 PM Saturday.  All
you're area needs is a bit of letter writting.
---
 * OLX 2.2 * Washington DC: America's work-free drug place.
--- FidoPCB v1.4 [ff083/x]
 * Origin: The GIFfer BBS, 175,000+files (813)969-1089 USR/V.all (1:377/50)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 143 of 384
 From : J Hulley-Miller                     1:107/330       .óá 27 .àé 95 12:25
 To   : All
 Subj : FUBS
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Greetings All!

Is the FUB Squad still active ? tnx.

jhm@cnj.digex.net

... I love running Windows! NOT!
--- GoldED/2 2.50.A0517+ [1068US3]
 * Origin: * Informatix/2 * (1:107/330)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 144 of 384
 From : FRANK SWARBRICK                     1:104/825       .óá 27 .àé 95 13:11
 To   : ALL
 Subj : X-Files episode list
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
For your enjoyment...

The X-Files - First Season
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Ep.# Air Date  PCode  Episode Title
==== ========= =====  ====================================================
  1. Sep 10 93  1X79  "Pilot:  The X-Files"
  2. Sep 17 93  1X01  "Deep Throat"                 The Truth Is Out There
  3. Sep 24 93  1X02  "Squeeze"                     The Truth Is Out There
  4. Oct  1 93  1X03  "Conduit"                     The Truth Is Out There
  5. Oct  8 93  1X04  "The Jersey Devil"            The Truth Is Out There
  6. Oct 22 93  1X05  "Shadows"                     The Truth Is Out There
  7. Oct 29 93  1X06  "Ghost In The Machine"        The Truth Is Out There
  8. Nov  5 93  1X07  "Ice"                         The Truth Is Out There
  9. Nov 12 93  1X08  "Space"                       The Truth Is Out There
 10. Nov 19 93  1X09  "Fallen Angel"                The Truth Is Out There
 11. Dec 10 93  1X10  "Eve"                         The Truth Is Out There
 12. Dec 17 93  1X11  "Fire"                        The Truth Is Out There
 13. Jan  7 94  1X12  "Beyond The Sea"              The Truth Is Out There
 14. Jan 21 94  1X13  "GenderBender"                The Truth Is Out There
 15. Feb  4 94  1X14  "Lazarus"                     The Truth Is Out There
 16. Feb 11 94  1X15  "Young At Heart"              The Truth Is Out There
 17. Feb 18 94  1X16  "E.B.E."                      The Truth Is Out There
 18. Mar 18 94  1X17  "Miracle Man"                 The Truth Is Out There
 19. Apr  1 94  1X18  "Shapes"                      The Truth Is Out There
 20. Apr 15 94  1X19  "Darkness Falls"              The Truth Is Out There
 21. Apr 22 94  1X20  "Tooms"                       The Truth Is Out There
 22. Apr 29 94  1X21  "Born Again"                  The Truth Is Out There
 23. May  6 94  1X22  "Roland"                      The Truth Is Out There
 24. May 13 94  1X23  "The Erlenmeyer Flask"        Trust No One

The X-Files - Second Season
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Ep.# Air Date  PCode  Episode Title
==== ========= =====  ====================================================
 25. Sep 16 94  2X01  "Little Green Men"            The Truth Is Out There
 26. Sep 23 94  2X02  "The Host"                    The Truth Is Out There
 27. Sep 30 94  2X03  "Blood"                       The Truth Is Out There
 28. Oct  7 94  2X04  "Sleepless"                   The Truth Is Out There
 29. Oct 14 94  2X05  "Duane Barry" (Part 1 of 2)   The Truth Is Out There
 30. Oct 21 94  2X06  "Ascension" (Part 2 of 2)     Deny Everything
 31. Nov  4 94  2X07  "3"                           The Truth Is Out There
 32. Nov 11 94  2X08  "One Breath"                  The Truth Is Out There
 33. Nov 18 94  2X09  "Firewalker"                  The Truth Is Out There
 34. Dec  9 94  2X10  "Red Museum"                  The Truth Is Out There
 35. Dec 16 94  2X11  "Excelsis Dei"                The Truth Is Out There
 36. Jan  6 95  2X12  "Aubrey"                      The Truth Is Out There
 37. Jan 13 95  2X13  "Irresistible"                The Truth Is Out There
 38. Jan 27 95  2X14  "Die Hand Die Verletzt"       The Truth Is Out There
 39. Feb  3 95  2X15  "Fresh Bones"                 The Truth Is Out There
 40. Feb 10 95  2X16  "Colony" (Part 1 of 2)        The Truth Is Out There
 41. Feb 17 95  2X17  "End Game" (Part 2 of 2)      The Truth Is Out There
 42. Feb 24 95  2X18  "Fearful Symmetry"            The Truth Is Out There
 43. Mar 10 95  2X19  "Dod Kalm"                    The Truth Is Out There
 44. Mar 31 95  2X20  "Humbug"                      The Truth Is Out There
 45. Apr 14 95  2X21  "The Calusari"                The Truth Is Out There
 46. Apr 28 95  2X22  "F. emasculata"               The Truth Is Out There
 47. May  5 95  2X23  "Soft Light"                  The Truth Is Out There
 48. May 12 95  2X24  "Our Town"                    The Truth Is Out There
 49. May 19 95  2X25  "Anasazi"                     Ei 'Aaniigoo 'Ahoot'e


        Frank

... I Want To Believe -- The X-Files
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12
--- Silver Xpress Mail System 5.3W1G
 * Origin: Bailey Info Exchange : 303-674-0147 (1:104/825)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 145 of 384
 From : Colin Dijkgraaf                     3:772/1138      .óá 27 .àé 95 17:16
 To   : Jan Rooth
 Subj : Re: Orson Scott Card
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 -=> Jan Rooth spoke to Colin Dijkgraaf regarding Re: Orson Scott Card and said

 JR> RE: _Earthborn_ aka _Keeper of the Earth_

 JR> Yes, book five is the conclusion. You have some good reading to look
 JR> forward to. I found books four and five to be the best of the
 JR> series (even better than book one, which I enjoyed tremendously).

 Thanks for the info, I'll look forward to obtaining my copies and reading
 them.

 Colin

... Okay, okay, Ender......but I want a REMATCH!!!!!
~~~ ReneWave v1.00.wb2 (unregistered)
--- Renegade v10-05 Exp
 * Origin: THE *** AIRFIELD *** BBS  Ph 528-9860  24 Hours!! (3:772/1138)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 146 of 384
 From : Chris Baugh                         1:105/290.5     .óá 27 .àé 95 18:12
 To   : Karmin St.jean
 Subj : Star Blazers
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On (24 May 95) Karmin St.jean wrote to Chris Baugh...

 KS> The original name of the series was Space Cruiser Yamato, but the ship was
 KS> renamed the Argo in Star Blazers. There were three series created, only
 KS> two of which "Quest for Iscandar" and "Battle Against the Comet Empire"
 KS> were ever shown on American TV. The third series, "The Bolar Wars" is

I have no idea which one I saw, and I know I only saw a handful of
episodes many years ago - but I seem to remember some of the
Yamato's crew being stranded on a desert world, and the ship being
either repaired or equipped with new weaponry.  I saw it so long
ago (and was paying so little attention at the time) that these may
not be accurate recollections.

 KS> Another series, often mistakenly called "G-Force" was known as "Battle of
 KS> the Planets" and was produced by Sandy Frank (that name we all keep seeing
 KS> at the beginning of all the REALLY bad movies on MST3K).

I do remember enough of that one to recall that it was BAD!   Of
course, I'd love to see it presented on MST.

 KS> Tranzor Z is yet another anime serial that is not easy to find.

Don't think I've heard of this one before.

 KS>  (note, many of these may get a second chance at life this fall when the
 KS> SciFi Channel introduces it's new Saturday Morning Anime lineup!)

I sure hope they include the Flash Gordon series I mentioned, as I
recall it being truly outstanding (of course, this could be more
from the patina of nostalgia).

... Hi. I'll be your tagline for this evening.

--- PPoint 1.92
 * Origin: "Bother," said Pooh (1:105/290.5)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 147 of 384
 From : Chris Baugh                         1:105/290.5     .óá 27 .àé 95 18:15
 To   : Dana Zendell
 Subj : Help on X-Files Finale
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On (20 May 95) Dana Zendell wrote to All...

 DZ> I missed the final episode of the X-Files as well as the highlights
 DZ> which aired right before the show.  Would anybody be willing to send me

The highlights show was a disappointment, for me at least.  The
announcer sounded like the annoying "Lots of Action!" guy that does
so many movie ads, and the selection of clips left out many ideas I
would have thought important to include, while not shedding any new
light on the show, nor including anything of behind-the-scenes
interest or previews of upcoming episodes.  Seems to me this may
have been put together at the last minute just to fill the time
slot.

The finale, however, was excellent - one of their best shows.  I
don't have it on tape.

... thwoppa,thwoppa,thwoppa,thwoppa...........eh!

--- PPoint 1.92
 * Origin: "Bother," said Pooh (1:105/290.5)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 148 of 384
 From : Chris Baugh                         1:105/290.5     .óá 27 .àé 95 18:22
 To   : Chris Carter
 Subj : Vorlon Immortality
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On (25 May 95) Chris Carter wrote to Todd Sullivan...

 CC> A fellow on rec.arts.sf.tv.babylon5 proposed that Kosh is
 CC> actually a large sentient Big Mac.

More scary things for Kosh to say:
"You are not ready for the secret of the Special Sauce."
"The coffee is hot, and the lawyers are nearby."
"Would you like fries with that?"


... Screeeeech!!!Crash!!!Crunch!!Whooooosssshh!!Crackle, Crackle, Whuuummmp!

--- PPoint 1.92
 * Origin: "Bother," said Pooh (1:105/290.5)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 149 of 384
 From : Rumble                              1:163/436       .óá 27 .àé 95 19:51
 To   : Tony Trujillo
 Subj : Re: SeaQuest Survives
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
She said she would take the Captaintancy job in the season finale. I remeber
because Cmdr. Ford was offered 300000 dollars a year to do it and she was
offered 400000 dollars a year, she said that it was a fact the women make better
captains of merchant ships.

--- Maximus 2.02
 * Origin: Coven's Den (613)746-3584 = 650+ Echoes & 4.3+ Gigs (1:163/436)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 150 of 384
 From : Andrew Clarke                       1:109/369       .óá 27 .àé 95 20:35
 To   : Barry Blaes
 Subj : Re: Not SLIDERS
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 -=> Quoting John Kahane to Barry Blaes <=-

 JK> On <Sunday May 21 1995>, Barry Blaes wrote to Frank Swarbrick:

 BB> If you or anyone else wishes to help keep the show on the
 BB> air you can send via the Internet a mail message to
 BB> "sliders@delphi.com".

 BB> Tell them you like the show and want to see them renew the show.

How would I go about doing that if I'm not on any services like AOL or
Compuserve and don't have an Internet address?

Andrew Clarke


... Forrest Fudd:  "Wife is wike a box of chocowates."
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

--- Maximus/2 2.02
 * Origin: UFOria (Clifton, VA) 703-803-6420 (1:109/369)

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 Msg  : 151 of 384
 From : Steven Skaggs                       1:3608/250      .óá 27 .àé 95 23:36
 To   : Mark Jones
 Subj : Re: Star Wars
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12  94-2198

 -=> Quoting Mark Jones to Steven Skaggs <=-

 MJ> There are several possibilities:

 MJ> ...because he's out of ideas.  He has no clue what to do next, and
 MJ> is "vamping" desperately, hoping to come up with something.  (People
 MJ> have been hearing this "any day now" stuff for nearly twenty years.
 MJ> It would be embarrassing to admit that the well is dry.)

 No, I believe he has said what the other movies or going to be about, at
 least in a general sense. He has had the basic idea for quite some time.

 MJ> ...because he doesn't *want* to do it, but can't find a way to
 MJ> gracefully back out of it.  (People have been hearing this "any day
 MJ> now" stuff for nearly twenty years.  It would be embarrassing to admit
 MJ> that he just doesn't want to do it.)

 Lucas hasn't been saying "any day now". He has said several times over the
 past several years that the first one will be out before 2000. I don't
 really see why he would keep saying he is going to make new ones when he
 doesn't want to.

 MJ> ...because keeping the hope alive helps fan the flames, selling
 MJ> videos, toys, games and whatnot to all the fans who continue to slaver
 MJ> for more; i.e., pure cynical profiteering.

 Yeah, he really needs the money. 0
 I wonder how much he's making from ILM alone?

 MJ> I don't claim that any of these is accurate--only that they *could*
 MJ> be.  There are plenty of reasons not to make a new trilogy, possibly
 MJ> more reasons than there are to do it.
 MJ> Consider:
 MJ> Lucas has got to have more money than he can every spend; Star Wars
 MJ> was HUGE.  Not to mention a few little projects like Indiana Jones
 MJ> that didn't do badly either.  He simply isn't *hungry*.
 MJ> Also, everyone will be expecting the new trilogy to be at least as
 MJ> big as the original films.  That's a huge cross to bear.  If it
 MJ> doesn't turn into a gold mine, he'll be seen to have failed (Hollywood
 MJ> has a very short memory).
 MJ> If it isn't as mind-blowingly novel as the first film was (and I
 MJ> don't think it *can* be), again he'll be seen as having failed.
 MJ> So...he has a lot to lose (losing money and getting panned hurts
 MJ> even if you can live on the profits from the earlier films for the
 MJ> rest of your life) if it doesn't all go perfectly.  And it almost
 MJ> certainly won't go perfectly.

 Maybe there are more reasons not to make a new trilogy then there is to make
 one. But that doesn't explain why he keeps saying that he will make another
 one. George Lucas is set for life as far as money is concerned. Star Wars
 will always be remembered and I don't see how George Lucas would ever be
 considered a failure. Sequels are rarely as good as the originals but Empire
 Strikes back and Return of the Jedi were sequels and both were very good
 (at least I think so) and all did extremely well. Same goes for the
 Indiana Jones movies.




... To err is human, to forgive is against company policy
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12
 * Origin: Double Springs BBS Panama City, FL 904-784-6336  (1:3608/250.0)

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 Msg  : 152 of 384
 From : Michael Vergara                     1:2605/631      .cê 28 .àé 95 00:10
 To   : Frank Swarbrick
 Subj : Sliders & VR.5 cancelled!
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE 1.11+
[FRANK SWARBRICK ¨ Sliders & VR.5 cancelled!]

 FS> Of course, we do get the new show Space.  Hope that one works out.

What is it about?  I've heard is it's about a bunch of military cadets who get
stuck right in the middle of a big war.

 FS> Saw White Dwarf last night.  So so, but I doubt it will become a
 FS> series.

I agree.  It was interesting (only because it was strange), but it didn't really
hold my attention (I kept channel surfing during the show).  I do wish that VR.5
wasn't cancelled -- as for Sliders, I knew a lot of people in my area that it.
I thought that would be a show which would have lasted at least another season.


MikeyV


... I was born in the log cabin I helped my father build.
--- Blue Wave/TAG v2.12 [NR]
 * Origin: The MindScape BBS (1:2605/631)

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 Msg  : 153 of 384
 From : Bryan Browder                       1:147/61        .cê 28 .àé 95 00:40
 To   : Gary Warren
 Subj : Re: Sliders
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.NOTE: IceEdit 1.30 [Eval]
.TID: FastEcho 1.41/g 8036

GW> As I've said before, both VR5 and SLIDERS are long gone, as of early
GW> this week.

    That's too bad. Sliders is simply a fun show.

  BB

--- FastEcho 1.41g
 * Origin: Arrakis BBS - "How're ya DUNE?" (405)752-8955 (1:147/61)

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 Msg  : 154 of 384
 From : Bryan Browder                       1:147/61        .cê 28 .àé 95 00:49
 To   : David Johnston
 Subj : Voyager Nose Diving?
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.NOTE: IceEdit 1.30 [Eval]
.TID: FastEcho 1.41/g 8036

DJ> Essentially this means that we have three mature starship officers
DJ> and four young adult starship officers. I don't see the problem.
DJ> The original crew was every bit as "young". Only if you are using
DJ> a Picard median would Voyager's crew be described as barely post
DJ> puberty.

    No crew is like the next ( or previous ). Comparing one crew to another is
like comparing green and red apples. Each has its pro and con but neither one is
particularly 'bad'.

   BB

--- FastEcho 1.41g
 * Origin: Arrakis BBS - "How're ya DUNE?" (405)752-8955 (1:147/61)

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 Msg  : 155 of 384
 From : Chris Carter                        1:105/302.23    .cê 28 .àé 95 01:32
 To   : Jeff Hancock
 Subj : Vorlon Immortality
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 JH> An _unused_ scene? You mean you've gotten hold of a
 JH> "director's cut", or just a scene that hasn't had any
 JH> reference made to it since?

Hot off the 'Lost Scenes' webpage at Hyperion, here's a cut that
didn't make final edit of the B5 pilot, "The Gathering."

[begin text import]

The following scene is excerpted from the script for "The
Gathering." It was filmed, but was eliminated from the final cut due
to time restraints. Earlier in the story, Dr. Benjamin Kyle has
had...an encounter with what is inside the Vorlon's encounter suit.

 INT. MEDLAB

 where Laurel and Kyle look through the glass at Kosh.

                              LAUREL
                So, Doctor...just what *did* you see
                when you looked inside that suit?

                              KYLE
                      (a long beat, then:)
                There are moments in your life when
                everything crystallizes.  When the
                whole world reshapes itself, right
                down to its component molecules, and
                everything changes.
                      (beat)
                I've looked upon the face of a
                Vorlon, Laurel...and nothing's the
                same anymore.

 And, his thoughts distant, Kyle moves off, leaving Laurel
 to peer through the mist at the shrouded figure within the
 isolab, and wonder....

[end text import]

Not exactly *revealing*, but at the very least, we know that folks
who see Kosh don't come away from the experience unchanged.

Chris - carter@teleport.com


--- cPoint v2.17/FreeWare
 * Origin: Carter's Conspicuous Consumption (1:105/302.23)

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 Msg  : 156 of 384
 From : Mark Jones                          1:105/302.47    .cê 28 .àé 95 02:47
 To   : Jeff Hancock
 Subj : ST: The Next Generation
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On (24 May 95) Jeff Hancock wrote to Mark Jones...

 MJ> uses it to rewrite every cell in her body so that a week later
 MJ> (by the next episode) she is back to square one (and completely
 MJ> unaffected [.....] (And if they can do *that* to her, why the
 MJ> hell couldn't they recreate Neelix's lungs?)
 JH>
 JH> Because they didn't have a week before Neelix would have died?

BZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZT!!!

Wrong--but thanks for playing!

Neelix was perfectly capable of living for an indefinite period while
in that stasis field, with the holo-lungs doing his breathing for him.
 They had *plenty* of time to clone up some new ones.  (And a good,
old-fashioned "heart-lung machine" -- as seen in real-world hospitals
all over the USA today -- could have kept him alive when they switched
off the holo-lungs to install the real ones....)


... The meaning of your communication is the response you get....

--- PPoint 1.78
 * Origin: HQ of World Domination, Inc. (1:105/302.47)

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 Msg  : 157 of 384
 From : Mark Jones                          1:105/302.47    .cê 28 .àé 95 02:51
 To   : David Johnston
 Subj : Sliders - Bathroom? Wash
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On (25 May 95) David Johnston wrote to Scott Gates...

 DJ> -> The energy requirements are too large to replicate large
 DJ> -> objects, instead, they replicate component parts then let
 DJ> -> humans assemble them.
 DJ>
 DJ> Um...the energy requirements in order to replicate a large object are
 DJ> identical to those required to replicate all of it's components, no
 DJ> matter how the replicators work.

True enough--but not the whole story.  (I agree that the "we can't
replicate really *big* things argument is an excuse for not making
full use of the technology, but....)

My modem is capable of transmitting as much data as anyone else's--but
only at 2400 baud (yes, I'm using stone-age technology here).

It might take as much *total* energy to replicate an entire engine
block as to replicate the parts--but that's irrelevant if they can't
produce all the energy needed in one burst.


... If you're done speaking freely, please step into the oven....

--- PPoint 1.78
 * Origin: HQ of World Domination, Inc. (1:105/302.47)

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 Msg  : 158 of 384
 From : Mark Jones                          1:105/302.47    .cê 28 .àé 95 02:54
 To   : Frank Eva
 Subj : Torres in Faces
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On (25 May 95) Frank Eva wrote to Mark Jones...

 FE> I'm beginning to see why you're so opposed to "techo-babble"! It
 FE> really is getting rather deep, especially in the last episode in
 FE> which they had to figure out a way to "cure" the bio-gel-packs!
 FE> IMO, the last 3 shows have definitely taken a nosedive in
 FE> quality. Perhaps the writers are getting burnt out...

"And lo, the scales did fall from his eyes and he saw anew!"

Yeah, they seem to think that making up a pseudo-scientific problem
and then spending 50 minutes trying pseudo-scientific solutions
constitutes a watchable plot.  It doesn't.  The pseudo-science should
simply propel them *into* the real conflict.

The story about B'Lanna being split into her Klingon and Human halves
is the sort of "technobabble" I can accept.  The notion of splitting
her into two separate beings is as unlikely as everything else they've
done--but I was willing to grant the premise in order to see how the
character dealt with the problem.  (Unfortunately, she dealt with it
by having everything made okay again by more super-science.  Yuck.)

 FE> In addition to the factors you mentioned, how would she react to her
 FE> parents... all sorts of neat complications!

...if she ever sees them again.

 FE> Doc Zimmerman is not as obnoxious as Wesley Crusher, but he's
 FE> being used basically the same way. Save another crew member? Just
 FE> ask Doc Zimmerman to go well beyond his normal programming, and
 FE> he'll save the day every time!

Now, if we could only get him to doctor the SCRIPTS....


... When the Master of Sinanju speaks, the Minbari Grey Council listens!

--- PPoint 1.78
 * Origin: HQ of World Domination, Inc. (1:105/302.47)

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 Msg  : 159 of 384
 From : Myra I Fox                          1:123/10        .cê 28 .àé 95 09:11
 To   : Barry Blaes
 Subj : X-Files Finale
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

-=>Quoting Barry Blaes to Myra I Fox<=-

 MI> I would love to hear your theory.... more than one boxcar
 MI> connected to that one?  he's buried under the bodies?  he
 MI> got beamed up to the mother ship?

 BB> Nope... The team from sliders came in just after the kid shut the lid.

 BB> The timer only had 45 seconds on the display. Mulder heard the
 BB> chopper. Fearing the worst... when the portal opened for the slider
 BB> team he jumped with them! :-)

 A great theory with only 2 minor flaws... I don't know much
 about sliders... and I heard they were cancelled   <g>.

 Maybe O'Brien beamed him through time and space to DS9.

 Or Scotty came by in that shuttle he has been wandering
 around in and rescued him.

 Maybe he is hiding in Kosh's encounter suit.

 He's sharing a curry with Lister on the Red Dwarf.

 He is really a Shambala master and slipped through to
 Shambala to wait this one out, only to reappear later when
 things "cool down" in the boxcar.

... When the Master of Sinanju speaks, the Minbari Grey Council listens!
--- Blue Wave/RA v2.12
 * Origin: The Electric Fox - Memphis,Tn. (901)327-1008 (1:123/10)

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 Msg  : 160 of 384
 From : Lawrence Heinke                     1:291/69        .cê 28 .àé 95 14:36
 To   : Ecarey
 Subj : The Klingons vs The Borg!
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: InterEcho 1.07 6E010918

-> But the Romulans and Cardassians and Klingons didn't have anything ca
-> beating the Borg either -

Wrong!!! The Klingons have a weapon that could be lethal to the Borg. The weapon
could easily defeat them. It is called Blood Seed. I forget the episode but in
TNG all of some planets lifeforms were being eradicated. The Enterprise was on
some goose-chase looking for DNA. The Klingons had beaten them there, got the
DNA and, destroyed the planet with Blood Seed a life devouring plasma. The
Klingons could fire it at the Borg, the Borg would see it as not a threat, it
would thereby destroy all DNA and render the ship inert. Klingons 1 - Borg 0!


--- InterEcho 1.07
 * Origin: SABRETOOTH BBS, WICHITA KS, U.S.A. (316-729-7526) (1:291/69)

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 Msg  : 161 of 384
 From : Earl Green                          1:3822/1        .cê 28 .àé 95 14:43
 To   : Frank Eva
 Subj : SLIDERS SEASON FINALE
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

FE>EG "  the possibility of John Rhys-Davies departing.  This show's in
FE>EG "  trouble.

FE>I really am a prophet! :-) When Sliders first aired, I commented that
FE>JRD was the most likely to move on, because of his distinguished movie
FE>career. I just couldn't see him sticking around in a weekly TV show when
FE>he could be doing stuff like Indiana Jones 4...

  You do have to admit, though, Rhys-Davies was a BIG part of that
  show's appeal.  I most emphatically did NOT like Quinn or Wade when
  the show started up; I got to where I liked Wade two or three episodes
  in, and I was finally starting to like Quinn just as they offed him.
  But Arturo and Rembrandt had me hooked - if not for them, I wouldn't
  have stuck around for the first hourly episode. <G>
     e <-- Earl Green (earl.green@f1.n3822.z1.fidonet.org) 1:3822/1
---
 * SLMR 2.0 * "Honey, men...I have something awesome to reveal to you."

--- QScan/PCB v1.17b / 01-0162
 * Origin: Jackalope Junction  501-785-5381 Ft Smith AR (1:3822/1)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 162 of 384
 From : Earl Green                          1:3822/1        .cê 28 .àé 95 14:43
 To   : Kay Shapero
 Subj : SLIDERS SEASON FINALE
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

KS> EG>     As recently as a fax sent yesterday, Fox still considers

KS>A fax from whom to whom?  Considering that Fox already announced to the pape
KS>that it was cancelling the thing (turned up in the LA Times the other day),
KS>they're just throwing rumors around to help in contract negotiations or
KS>something, I think they're overdoing it a tad...

  The fax was a daily news digest from Broadcasting & Cable Weekly
  magazine.  I've still have yet to see a fax from Fox indicating the
  show is dead, but it may still be forthcoming.
        e
---
 * SLMR 2.0 * "The eggs?  Let's just call them...'the phenomena.'"

--- QScan/PCB v1.17b / 01-0162
 * Origin: Jackalope Junction  501-785-5381 Ft Smith AR (1:3822/1)

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 Msg  : 163 of 384
 From : ROBERT LIDGREN                      1:134/10        .cê 28 .àé 95 16:32
 To   : RUMBLE
 Subj : EARTH 2/SO LONG
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
-> I really enjoyed the series and i'm sorry to see it go. But at least
-> seaQuest is still on! It is much more exiting, and weirder. BTW do you know
-> if there are more than three seaQuest books. I've only found the first three
-> and they are all about last years cast.

I haven't found season 2 of SeaQuest as much to my liking as you have.
However, I am an optimist about science fiction on TV so I'm hoping the story
lines change to more hard science and less fantasy next season.  Earth 2 was,
for me, a series with greater promise--especially since so much of it was shot
on location.  I much prefer that approach to the virtually 100% studio shoot of
SeaQuest.
--- PCBoard 15.2
 * Origin: 32 lines 40 Gig BBS, Realtime InterNet SLIP (403)299-9900 (1:134/10)

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 Msg  : 164 of 384
 From : ROBERT LIDGREN                      1:134/10        .cê 28 .àé 95 16:36
 To   : DEBRA MILNER
 Subj : EARTH 2/SO LONG
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
-> Count me into that group.....I didn't miss it, and if I was not going to be
-> home, had the episode taped....I had not heard it was getting cancelled.

Re: The Demise of Earth 2

I wonder if the series failed, in part, because not one of the characters was
exceptionally strong.  A powerful Matriarch or Patriarch figure sometimes helps
along with, perhaps, a smaller "core" of key players.  We may laugh at Cpt.
Kirk from the original Star Trek because he was so much larger than life but at
least you knew what he stood for and he made decisions and took the
consequences.  In Earth 2, leadership was much more ambiguous and quavering.
Maybe this played a part??
--- PCBoard 15.2
 * Origin: 32 lines 40 Gig BBS, Realtime InterNet SLIP (403)299-9900 (1:134/10)

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 Msg  : 165 of 384
 From : ROBERT LIDGREN                      1:134/10        .cê 28 .àé 95 16:38
 To   : STEVEN WESEN
 Subj : EARTH 2/SO LONG
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
-> Not me this series is not what the fans I knew wanted and the Writing was
-> not seasoned enough to draw in watchers.
-> I thought it might be good when I first saw the Pilot but it look more like
-> a Paranoid Lost in Space and Yates was the Robot "warning , warning this
-> show lacks"

You take a strong position and defend it fairly well.  The series that will
last has power-packed stories and characters that stand out.  Maybe the Earth 2
figures were diluted a bit too much because we never got to really care so much
about any one of them.  Geez, Morgan stood out--and he was a pain much of the
time.  Maybe if Danzigger led a bit more things might have turned out
differently.  Who knows??
--- PCBoard 15.2
 * Origin: 32 lines 40 Gig BBS, Realtime InterNet SLIP (403)299-9900 (1:134/10)

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 Msg  : 166 of 384
 From : ROBERT LIDGREN                      1:134/10        .cê 28 .àé 95 16:40
 To   : MICHELLE WILLEY
 Subj : EARTH 2/SO LONG
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
-> colonists stranded without supplies on an alien world. The premise offered a
-> lot of scope that was simply ignored by the writers. IMHo. Don't know what
-> the TV schedule was like in your area, but here the show was constantly
-> being preempted or delayed for as much as 90 minutes. If this was normal for
-> other areas of the US, the ratings had to be pretty bad. --Mich

That's the point, isn't it, a promise unfulfilled seems to be a frequent
post-mortem comment on Earth 2.  The delays and preempted slots just made the
matter worse.
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 Msg  : 167 of 384
 From : ROBERT LIDGREN                      1:134/10        .cê 28 .àé 95 16:43
 To   : PAMELA CROSSETT
 Subj : EARTH 2/SO LONG
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
-> What do you think of this trend of novelization of television shows?
-> Were any of them any good? Did you read them?
->
-> RL> What is a surprise is that SeaQuest DSV did make the "cut" instead!
-> Just haven't gotten into this series.
->
-> What a disappointment about Earth2!

Novels are quite often more interesting because we get to use our imagination
more and, naturally, more room is available for descriptive narrative.  The
Earth 2 novels were engaging if not classic fare.  I enjoyed them but one could
see that they were a bit rushed and certainly raw around the edges.
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 Msg  : 168 of 384
 From : ROBERT LIDGREN                      1:134/10        .cê 28 .àé 95 16:46
 To   : FRANK EVA
 Subj : EARTH 2/SO LONG
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
-> its original inhabitants, and this piqued my interest. I'm now sorry to see
-> it was axed. I'm not surprised, though, because if they kept SeaQuest, they
-> probably didn't think they could afford both and just tossed a coin to see
-> which one to keep. Perhaps, though, Spielberg's association with SeaQuest
-> gave that show a bit of an edge...

Well, Frank, the cancellation was a disappointment but certainly not hard to
predict.  I guess I was even more surprised by the cancellation of Sliders.
This series had even more promis and the stroies broadcast were always
engaging.  I am enough of an optimist to still believe the Earth 2 premise is
one which could be successfully re-worked down the line.
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 Msg  : 169 of 384
 From : ROBERT LIDGREN                      1:134/10        .cê 28 .àé 95 16:49
 To   : TOM HUBER
 Subj : EARTH 2/SO LONG
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
-> There were some technical inconsistencies that bothered me, especially the
-> concept that the isolated colony wasn't all that isolated and that "big
-> brother" could move in any time and take over...

The VR connection with "big brother," as you call it, did act as an unneeded
distraction.  The series would have been stronger, I suppose, had the colonists
been ENTIRELY cut-off.  Colonists in our history quite often found themselves
in precisely this situation.  The west was "opened" precisely because those who
survived had to be especially strong and self-reliant characters.
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 Msg  : 170 of 384
 From : ROBERT LIDGREN                      1:134/10        .cê 28 .àé 95 16:51
 To   : JEFF SCHLENKER
 Subj : EARTH 2/SO LONG
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
-> Yea, I liked it as well.  When it first came on, I wasn't too impressed, but
-> I kept watching and I guess it sorta grew on me.

Let's hope down the line something from a non-Star Trek universe can succeed
and do so in a powerful way.  I guess X-Files demonstrates that such fare is
possible and can be produced with innovative scripts and with characters who
have a tremendous charisma.
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 Msg  : 171 of 384
 From : ROBERT LIDGREN                      1:134/10        .cê 28 .àé 95 16:53
 To   : DEMIAN KATZ
 Subj : EARTH 2/SO LONG
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
-> Earth 2 will be missed...  It's my second favorite sci-fi show ever, and I
-> don't think it deserves to die..  The ratings weren't that bad from what
-> I've seen, but I guess network tv has higher expectations. Ah well, at least
-> there are still a fair number of quality shows on.

Sorry for the delay in replying Demian...  Yeh, it will be missed but I'll miss
Sliders even more.  Now that cancellation was even a bigger double-whammy.  No
logic or "heart" seems attached to the networks.  It's all numbers, dollars,
demographics and the "bottom line."  Welcome to free enterprise.  On the other
hand, there SHOULD BE  a place for quality entertainment that does not have
MASS APPEAL.
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 Msg  : 172 of 384
 From : Michelle Willey                     1:379/37        .cê 28 .àé 95 16:55
 To   : Frank Eva
 Subj : RE: VOYAGER NOSE DIVING?
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12  92-0315

 FE> I wouldn't complain about Neelix if he didn't seem to always be employed
 FE> as Barclay was in TNG. Of all the characters, I find the holo-doc the
 FE> most interesting. Perhaps it's because he seems to be more of an "adult"
 FE> dislike how demographics is having such a profound effect on TV...

I agree Neelix seems to be the Barclay too often. The doc on the other hand
has a slightly cynical edge that I like. I find it ironic that the only
character with any depth is the simulated person. But the same thing happened
in NextGen. Data was more human than the humans and the humans all began to
seem artificial. Even on those rare occasions when a character gets angry it
does not seem very real. Pooh on demographics. Just because we don't buy the
action figures no one wants to make science fiction for grown ups.



+----------------------------------------------------------------+
|Xpress User                                                     |
+----------------------------------------------------------------+

... Where am I going?  And, WHY AM I IN THIS HANDBASKET?????
 * Evaluation copy of Silver Xpress. Day # 17
 * Silver Xpress V4.01

--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12
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Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 173 of 384
 From : Michelle Willey                     1:379/37        .cê 28 .àé 95 16:55
 To   : Frank Swarbrick
 Subj : RE: SLIDERS & VR.5 CANCEL
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12  92-0315
On 24 May 95 07:50pm, FRANK SWARBRICK said the following:

 FS> Well, for everone wondering if Quinn is going to die...we'll never know.
 FS> Sliders has been cancelled.  As has VR.5 (big surprise there).  Sheesh,

Well ?*@#^*@! Now what am I supposed to watch on Wednesday nights? So far we
have cancellations on TekWar, Sliders, VR.5, and Earth 2. But we get to keep
SeaQuest? Life just ain't fair.

MICHELLE WILLEY

... Information is always good for something. -Austin James
 * Evaluation copy of Silver Xpress. Day # 17
 * Silver Xpress V4.01

--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12
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 Msg  : 174 of 384
 From : ROBERT LIDGREN                      1:134/10        .cê 28 .àé 95 16:56
 To   : TOM ROBINSON
 Subj : EARTH 2/SO LONG
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
->    It's really weird I taped the E2 tv-movie on a bit of a lark as I
-> had already pre-judged it as being cut in the same mold as SQ-DSV seemed to
-> have been (large budget, but not much in the way of stories).
->    It turns out the total opposite was true.  I wound up watching
-> every episode religiously. It was such a uniquely different series: one
-> which seemed structured more like a play.  The Terrians could have come off
-> as being some kind of warm 'n fuzzy hippies, but they turned out to be
-> fascinating.
->
->    Even Uly had the fascinating evolution of his DNA sub-plot making
-> him a totally different character from the weak character I had anticiapted.

Of all the responses to my original message, I guess yours coincides most
directly with my own.  I guess there were morte than 25 of us enjoying Earth 2.
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 Msg  : 175 of 384
 From : ROBERT LIDGREN                      1:134/10        .cê 28 .àé 95 16:59
 To   : EVAN MALIK
 Subj : EARTH 2/SO LONG
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
-> Well once again we see the people at NBC have no concept of how to run
-> Science Fiction on their network.  The network that cancelled Star Trek has
-> done it again!  E2 was a great show they never gave a chance.  I personally
-> think NBC killed it intentionally when Steven Speilberg <sp> pulled his name
-> off it. It was a show that demanded the viewers attention as it built on
-> itself week after week (much like Babylon 5), but how often was it on more
-> than 2 weeks in a row without being preemted, cancelled or repeated?  No
-> wonder it got bad ratings.  I loved the show and couldn't even keep track of
-> it!  Perhaps Universal will be able to sell it to a real network to keep
-> this great show alive!

Hey, Earth 2 was cancelled and now Sliders has been too!  Go figure.  Just what
do the networks want-nothing but SITCOMS???!!!  I mean sitcoms are safe and
non-threatening entertainemnt fare but damn good dramas should be given a
chance too.  The ARE more RISKY.  They do require a greater intellectual
involvement but, in the end, I think we walk away more enriched.  Just one
man's opinion but Earth 2 and Sliders should have been retained at least for a
second season.
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 Msg  : 176 of 384
 From : ROBERT LIDGREN                      1:134/10        .cê 28 .àé 95 17:02
 To   : FRANK EVA
 Subj : WHITE DWARF
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
-> Yeah, it was very difficult to follow, and kind of boring... He should
-> change his name to Crappola... :-)

Gee, Frank, was it really that bad??  I have only seen the first half hour of
the tape but will see better what you mean when I catch the last 90 minutes.
He ususally makes films that we rememebr--is this a slide into dementia or
what??
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 Msg  : 177 of 384
 From : Gary Warren                         1:382/92        .cê 28 .àé 95 17:55
 To   : Jim Cushing
 Subj : Re: CREATION REVIEW 1995:  THE TROUBLE WITH R'NOLD! (part 2)
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: IMAIL-386 1.60+ PK32

 -=> Quoting Jim Cushing to Gary Warren <=-


 GW> After we were firmly, but not happily, seated, we suffered
 GW> through the introductory music video (isn't ANYBODY who is vaguely
 GW> familiar with classical music, late 1970's rock or WAYNE'S WORLD
 GW> besides me tired of hearing Queen's version of "Bohemian Rhapsody" for
 GW> the 97th time?).
 JC>
 JC> Actually no! Queen is still one of my favorite groups.

Well, Queen WAS one of my fave late 70's/early 80's groups (alongside
Abba, Wings, ELO and Blondie!), but WAYNE'S WORLD and the repetitive
music video on MTV and VH1 about killed any appreciation I had for
the group!


 GW> Then we concentrated a bit more on Arnold's humourlessly spoken
 GW> (to everyone but himself)
 JC>
 JC> Having been to a con where Arnold was one of the guest speakers I can
 JC> sympathize with you.

I figure most fans would.  ;D



 GW> Since Colm Meany (Miles O'Brien on DS9) has a contract
 GW> allowing him to include his outside movie roles with his regular DS9
 GW> appearances, his stay on that series is assured for several years.
 JC>
 JC> Colm has also stated that one of his main reasons for staying on DS9
 JC> is  that he gets a steady paycheck something most actors don't
 JC> receive.

Actors must eat to act, that's why soap operas are a constant revolving
door of actors.



 GW> °       The subplot of Quark's nephew Nog's application to
 GW> Starfleet will surface again in the DS9 episode "Facets."
 JC>
 JC> I've heard that O'brien will be "assisting" Nog with application and
 JC> training for the academy.

Which Miles will no doubt love to do.  ::ahem!::


 GW> °       DS9's Benjamin Sisco (Avery Brooks) will be promoted
 GW> to captain at the end of this season.
 JC>
 JC> About time!

Yeah, I thought he already WAS a captain.


 GW> °       Even though Robert McNeil's Tom Paris on VOYAGER and
 GW> his earlier TNG Nick Lacarno from "The First Duty" have identical
 GW> semi-bad guy character backgrounds, the Lacarno character was rewritten
 GW> into Paris in order for Paramount to avoid paying the scripter(s) of
 GW> "The First Duty" residuals for each VOYAGER episode involving Lacarno.
 GW> (And we thought Paramount dishonestly credited or underpaid its TREK
 GW> franchise scriptwriters--AHEM!!)
 JC>
 JC> Paramount is a business of making money while "trying" to give its
 JC> viewers "quality" programs.

As the current brouhaha over FOREST GUMP's writer proves.  "Greed" is
Paramount's middle name.


 GW> ° To avoid an R-rating for STAR TREK VI:
 GW> THE UNDISCOVERED COUNTRY, the Klingon blood bubbles were Pepto
 GW> Bismol-coloured.  "Purple blood," commented Arnold, "is considered
 GW> less violent than RED blood!"

 JC> Blood is blood no matter what the color it is. They still showed the
 JC> violence. Changing the color of blood because purple is less violent
 JC> than red blood is stupid. If anything they should have "cut" back on
 JC> the graphic violence while keeping the red blood.

 Well, Standards and Practice departments of networks and studios have
 strange ideas about sex and violence content, so it's not as far-fetched
 as we may like to think.



 GW> As usual, Shatner didn't sign autographs,
 JC>
 JC> I know he has a signature contract with QVC but that is ridiculous!
 JC> The man gets paid $25,000 for a weekend show plus first class airline
 JC> tickets plus over $100.00 per day for food and he can't take time out
 JC> to sign autographs!

Well he needs the spare time to ride his horses!  ;D


 GW> °       Despite Paramount's monetary concerns, it always
 GW> builds a new Enterprise bridge for each movie.
 JC>
 JC> If Shatner said that he is either a liar or he dosen't read the books
 JC> his collaborators wrote for him. In his Movie Memories book he
 JC> clearly stated that all through the series and movies Paramount either
 JC> remade, refurbished  or upgraded the current sets.

I'm waiting for the paperback version of MOVIE MEMORIES to come out, as I
did with his first MEMORIES book (of which I ended up spending only
45 cents, thanks to my bookstore card!).


 GW> °       The horseback-riding scene with Patrick Stewart in
 GW> GENERATIONS took two days to shoot, where it was up to Shatner to
 GW> teach Stewart how to ride AND to wear panty-hose *inside* his pants.
 JC>
 JC> Stewart knew how to ride! Stewart was not prolific horseman like
 JC> Shatner.
 GW> °       His new STAR TREK novel, ASHES OF EDEN, is part of a
 GW> planned trilogy.
 JC>
 JC> Did he also state that 80% of the book was written by Gar and Judith
 JC> Stevens!

I'm still waiting for him to admit Ron Goulart (sp?) wrote his TEKWAR
books.


 GW> He also added that VOYAGER and DS9 producer Rick Berman may consider his
 GW> screenplay for ASHES as part of another TREK film, which would inevitably
 GW> result in Captain James T. Kirk's "resurrection" for at least this
 GW> supposed movie.
 JC>
 JC> I hope not after all Shatner last idea(ST5 In search of "God")was a
 JC> flop! Besides "He's dead Bill" and I hope he stays that way.

I dunno.  Won't you miss seeing two hours of his toupees?  ::gryn!::


 GW> While USA Network has canceled TEKWAR, a Canadian network is considering
 GW> producing more episodes.
 JC>
 JC> At times I enjoyed TEKWAR and I hope a Canadian network will produce
 JC> more!

 So does my wife.


 GW> °       Shatner said he believes VOYAGER is "more in line"
 GW> with the exploratory premise of the Original Series than DS9, even
 GW> though he admitted seeing only "Caretaker," VOYAGER's two-hour debut.
 JC>
 JC> How would he know? He has admitted that he has never watched TNG or
 JC> DS9 so  how can he make a statement like that plus he only saw the
 JC> debut episode of Voyager.

Because he's a Creation Con star and is paid to say anything he wants!


 GW> °       Among his most degrading entertainment assignments,
 GW> Shatner listed his role in the 1970's KINGDOM OF THE SPIDERS and his
 GW> late 1960's rendition of "Lucy in the Sky with Diamonds." He explained,
 GW> however, that the original cut included his reading from "Man from La
 GW> Mancha" intercut with his "interpretation" of the Beatles hit in order
 GW> to provide a sort of literary contrast of the times.  The purpose of
 GW> the release containing only "Lucy" was "to DEGRADE me!" Shatner
 GW> exclaimed. °
 JC>
 JC> Hey the man needed work! Plus he had been through a bitter divorce
 JC> with his first wife which pratically left him pennyless and living out
 JC> of his pickup truck.(he stated that on an interview with Howard Stern)


One of his little-known "beggar" roles of the 70's *I* admire him for was
the narrator of a documentary series on entrepreneurship our high
school government class had to watch during class.


 GW> Shatner included "The City on the Edge of Forever" (which he labeled
 GW> "The City on the Edge of the River") and "The Trouble with Tribbles"
 GW> were his favorite Original Series episodes.  He also mused that the
 GW> show's finale "Turnabout Intruder" ("where a woman entered MY body!")
 GW> was one of his most unforgettable TOS shows.
 JC>
 JC> Bill must be suffering from memory loss. When I last saw him at a
 JC> convention  he stated that his favorite was "The devil in the
 JC> dark"(the Horta episode) because his father died either just before
 JC> filming began or while they were filming the episode.

Well he mentioned "Devil in the Dark" in passing as a fave, too.


 GW> Since we had our fill of Shatner and parking and seating
 GW> hassles, Teri and I didn't bother to stay for the rescheduled blooper
 GW> reel. If I was teaching at Teri's school where she works, I'd stamp a
 GW> fat D-plus (D+) for the convention's grade, with the only saving graces
 GW> being the informational bits and Shatner's appearance.  If I were to
 GW> repeat my oath from last year not to attend another Creation
 GW> convention, I'd gladly do so with crossed fingers. But I'd ALSO add the
 GW> caveat that Creation needs to come up with another convention site with
 GW> better parking and audience seating AND a convention host with a
 GW> tumbleweed's inkling about handicapped accessibility issues.

 JC> Good idea!

We just have to see if Creation will take a hint.


glw



... Attend! The! William! Shatner! School! Of ... Acting!
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
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Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 178 of 384
 From : SEAN CASZATT                        1:2601/512      .cê 28 .àé 95 18:47
 To   : ROBERT LIDGREN
 Subj : SLIDERS KILLED TOO!!
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
In a message to All <05/27/95> Robert Lidgren wrote:

RL> I wonder if Babylon 5, ST Voyager, ST Deep Space 9 and X-Files will now be
RL> cancelled too so the networks can bring back "Lost in Space:  The 90's
RL> edition":  AAARRRRGhhhhhhhh!!!

UPN recently announced that VOYAGER will be the only series of theirs
that will be returning next season.

Sean Caszatt <-> Project Aurora

... Hey God why are you doing this to me?  -- NIN
--- Platinum Xpress/Wildcat! v1.0b
 * Origin: Project Aurora - The Truth is Out There! - (1:2601/512)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 179 of 384
 From : ROBERT LIDGREN                      1:134/10        .cê 28 .àé 95 22:11
 To   : MORTEN M.NSSON
 Subj : MY FRIEND MAX
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
RE:  Your question about the two versions of MAX HEADROOM-->

-> >Max Headroom: 10 points!
->
-> Can anybody tell me, what the difference is between the UK and the US
-> versions of the show. Are there different actors? Different episodes? Or..??

The US version was cast with entirely different actors, as I recall.  The only
hold-over was the actor who played Max.  The British version was much better.
It had a grittier feel to it and a somewhat darker tone.  The humour was more
sophisticated.  Here in Canada we saw the entire run of both versions so I can
speak from direct knowledge.
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 Msg  : 180 of 384
 From : ROBERT LIDGREN                      1:134/10        .cê 28 .àé 95 22:13
 To   : VINCENT MCCONNELL
 Subj : SLIDERS CONTINUITY
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
-> JK> Seeing that FOX announced that they cancelled the show, is it possible
-> JK> that someone else picked it up or that it might go into syndication?
-> When'd they announce this and where?

I read about the announcement of the cancellation in The Globe and Mail
newspaper this past week.
--- PCBoard 15.2
 * Origin: 32 lines 40 Gig BBS, Realtime InterNet SLIP (403)299-9900 (1:134/10)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 181 of 384
 From : ROBERT LIDGREN                      1:134/10        .cê 28 .àé 95 22:22
 To   : TODD SULLIVAN
 Subj : BEST SF
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
-> Harlan's been that way before all of us made our collective debut. I find
-> his general behavior amusing (looking at a child, I suppose), but he makes
-> some good points, especially if you've read "The Glass Teat" and "The Other
-> Glass Teat".  Hmmmm, now there's an idea:  A B-5 version of TGT.  I wonder
-> how long that would last...

Hi there.  I am responding to a message you posted re:  Harlan Ellison's
comments.  The point about Ellison is that NO MATTER WHAT HE SAYS the responses
are strong, heated and show that he makes so much sense so much of the time
that he CONTINUES to be a major gadfly in the science fiction/speculative
fiction arena.  He rails in a pyrotechnic way about the antics of weird SF fans
and documents said opinions with a myriad of examples.  The one that I can't
get out of my head is his stpory about a sci-fi conference he attended where
another author was approached by a "fan" as he entered an elevator.  The guy
simply ran up and dumped a cup of fresh vomit on his clothing.  Not a word was
said by the creep-he simply took off.  One has to point out that such idiot
behavior is exhibited only by the "lunatic fringe" but Harlan's article made me
see why he usually makes caustic comments or at least iconoclastic ones.
--- PCBoard 15.2
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 Msg  : 182 of 384
 From : Pamela Crossett                     1:325/118       .cê 28 .àé 95 23:28
 To   : Gloria Darcy
 Subj : Re: Earth 2 & HIGHLANDER
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

  >"And I wonder if Devin is really dead?"

yes, i agree, i don't like being left haing at the end of a season, not to
mention if they completely cut it off - and i have to write the rest of the
series for my own satisfaction.

about highlander. are you happy now that it looks like anne is off the show?
I've seen some of the latest postings about it, and the concensus seems to be
that she's been axed.

would you object to any love interest, of is it just her? (you are the gloria i
corresponded with about this before aren't you?) if not, i apologize.

seeYa on the net,

pam

--- Maximus/2 2.02
 * Origin: The Ozone Layer, Williston, VT. (802) 862-5058 (1:325/118)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 183 of 384
 From : Pamela Crossett                     1:325/118       .cê 28 .àé 95 23:33
 To   : Gloria Darcy
 Subj : Highlander, The Series
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
i just sent you another message, sorry. i now have the question answered.

i figured you would be pleased with her axing. but the question in my other
posting stands. would you object to any pairing with duncan other than tessa?

i have seen some of the tessa years, but only maybe five or so. i'd really like
to see all of season one, and maybe half of season two to catch up.

but i did rent highlander 3 and saw those two tessa episodes. i've rented
everything that says highlander, including the infamous episode 2. i'll watch it
all.

just got a director's cut version of highlander, the final dimension -
supposedly with scenes not seen in the version released several months ago
theatrically.

am looking forward to watching. my friend said there are some extra steamy
scenes he didn't remember from the movie, but he wasn't sure how much esle there
was.

did you see the movie? did you like it?

seeYA

pam

--- Maximus/2 2.02
 * Origin: The Ozone Layer, Williston, VT. (802) 862-5058 (1:325/118)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 184 of 384
 From : Debra Milner                        1:112/285       .cê 28 .àé 95 23:53
 To   : Dana Zendell
 Subj : Help on X-Files Finale
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 > I have both on tape, and tell you what, I'll be more than happy to
 > send you a copy, if you can send me your address...BTW, did you by
 > any chance get tonight's (part 2) episode on tape?  Guess what dummy
 > forgot to set the VCR tonight...<G>

Dana.....bad news.....

My husband, in his haste to make sure B5 was taped for me last week while I was
at class and had (again) forgotten to set the VCR, taped over on the tape that
was in the VCR.....yep....X-Files.....<sigh>....I'd kill him, but he was doing
it for me.....

--- GEcho 1.00
 * Origin: Wolverine's Asylum, past the boonies in Macclenny, FL (1:112/285)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 185 of 384
 From : Debra Milner                        1:112/285       .îí 29 .àé 95 00:48
 To   : All
 Subj : NBC address for Earth 2 email
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Does anyone have the e-mail address for NBC?  I would like to send them e-mail
letting me know how disappointed I am in the cancellation of Earth 2....seems
they have a tendency to cancel my favorites.....<sigh>

--- GEcho 1.00
 * Origin: Wolverine's Asylum, past the boonies in Macclenny, FL (1:112/285)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 186 of 384
 From : Jack Butler                         1:363/309       .îí 29 .àé 95 06:20
 To   : FRANK SWARBRICK
 Subj : Twin Peaks
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 Quoth FRANK SWARBRICK, "Nevermore".

 FS> Yeah, I remember seeing this book at the place I worked.  Don't really
 FS> plan to look for it.  Probably couldn't find it anymore anyway.

     Probably not.  Look in the "4 for a Dollar" bins.  Or try and find a
library which owns it.


 FS> Replacement Donna?  How could they!  Hmm, not sure if I'll get it this
 FS> weekend after all.  Perhaps some day, if there's nothing else to do.
 FS> Thanks for the info.

     Lara Flynn Boyle wasn't interested.


 FS> Next question is, did season one end after Cooper got shot?

 JB> No... <G>

 FS> John Kahane says yes.  Or were you just kidding?

     I was kidding.  <G>

     Jack Butler



... "I prefer Indiana."    "We named the *dog* Indiana."
--- FMail 0.98a
 * Origin: Forethought BBS -=- Orlando FL -=- 407-277-7530 (1:363/309)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 187 of 384
 From : Jack Butler                         1:363/309       .îí 29 .àé 95 08:22
 To   : Pamela Crossett
 Subj : Highlander Scedule
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 Quoth Pamela Crossett, "Nevermore".

 PC> This sounds like you have an "insider" giving you information.
 PC> Or are you actually part of the show?

     I am not now, nor have I ever been, a part of the production team that
makes Highlander.  I am, however, good friends with one of the production
assistants.


 PC> I'm so glad to hear Peter Wingfield will be back as Methos. That was
 PC> the  best plot line of this season! And he was excellent for leaving a
 PC> sense of  mystery around long-term immoratals.

     I agree.

     Jack Butler
     Highlander Guru



... "Nino!  Fetch me another... this one's broken." -- Kallas
--- FMail 0.98a
 * Origin: Forethought BBS -=- Orlando FL -=- 407-277-7530 (1:363/309)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 188 of 384
 From : Jack Butler                         1:363/309       .îí 29 .àé 95 08:27
 To   : Gloria Darcy
 Subj : Highlander
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 Quoth Gloria Darcy, "Nevermore".

 GD> I just wish Alexandria had fought harder with the producers and/or
 GD> writers to make her character stronger and not the victim all the
 GD> time, as she had wished.

     That wasn't why she left the show.  She left the show because she
got tired of spending half a year in Vancouver, away from her family.  Plus,
she wanted to have more babies, something that Tessa by definition couldn't
do easily.  So she quit.  Amicably, but she still quit.
     And its "Alexandra".  Minor correction.

     Jack Butler
     Highlander Guru



... "Well... Life as we know it is over..." -- Methos
--- FMail 0.98a
 * Origin: Forethought BBS -=- Orlando FL -=- 407-277-7530 (1:363/309)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 189 of 384
 From : Jack Butler                         1:363/309       .îí 29 .àé 95 08:28
 To   : Gloria Darcy
 Subj : Highlander Scedule
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 Quoth Gloria Darcy, "Nevermore".

 GD> Great news, Jack!  What about Joe?  I haven't seen the second part yet
 GD> of the season finale.

     As of right now, Joe Dawson will be back.

     Jack Butler



... "I spoke of unbreakable rules.  This is one of them." -- MacLeod
--- FMail 0.98a
 * Origin: Forethought BBS -=- Orlando FL -=- 407-277-7530 (1:363/309)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 190 of 384
 From : Jack Butler                         1:363/309       .îí 29 .àé 95 08:29
 To   : FRANK SWARBRICK
 Subj : Sliders Continuity
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 Quoth FRANK SWARBRICK, "Nevermore".

 JB> Personally, I thought this was a brilliant move on the part of
 JB> the producers.  The two men look close enough alike to be "identical",
 JB> but are different enough ("our" Rembrandt has a couple of scars "their"
 JB> Rembrandt didn't have, in addition to the extra padding) to be separate
 JB> individuals.

 FS> Is this for real?  At the time it did seem to me that they did have
 FS> some dissimilarities, but I took it to be good makeup and good acting.
 FS> Twin brother, huh?  Interesting...

     Yup!

     Jack Butler



... "I'll get you, my pretty... and your little dog, too!"
--- FMail 0.98a
 * Origin: Forethought BBS -=- Orlando FL -=- 407-277-7530 (1:363/309)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 191 of 384
 From : Frank Eva                           1:154/750       .îí 29 .àé 95 08:31
 To   : Richard Yamagata
 Subj : B5 Catch-Up
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: FastEcho 1.42.bA 8060
RY "FE> This would be nice but it would require a company like Simon &
RY "FE> Schuster to envision a profit for such a series of books. I
RY "FE> personally think there are few publishers who would consider
RY "FE> such a series profitable at this early stage, with B5 still a
RY "FE> somewhat unproven commodity...

RY "You are right about this.  To make the point more poignant for my
RY "son, "where are the micro-machines?"

Yes, that's the same thing. Is the series popular enough to warrant a
line of B5 toys? With the threat of cancellation looming over the show,
I don't think anyone will find this license a safe investment...

---
 * Origin: *YOPS ]I[* 3.1 GIG * RA/FD/FE RADist * Milwaukee, WI (1:154/750)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 192 of 384
 From : Frank Eva                           1:154/750       .îí 29 .àé 95 08:31
 To   : Richard Yamagata
 Subj : Babylon 5 (PTEN)
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: FastEcho 1.42.bA 8060
RY "On the other hand, it may not be surprising.  That long narrative by
RY "Delenn about the Shadows, the First Ones, the Vorlons, drove me
RY "MAD!!!  I played that sequence over and over -- TRYING TO FIGURE OUT
RY "WHAT MIRA WAS MUMBLING.  It is rediculous that she could not
RY "ennunciate better.  I do not think it was a directional ploy to
RY "heighten suspense.

RY "The only thing that let me understand what Mira muffed was a
RY "transcript of that part of the episode.  I think that this narrative
RY "was as critical to the B5 plot line as the dialog between Sheridan
RY "and Kosh about "understanding."

Perhaps this transcript would help me understand better what was being
said, too. I don't have the time or patience to go back and watch an
episode a dozen times. In fact, I like to only watch them again much
later, when I've basically forgotten much of what happened. This helps
we while away the dreary days of summer TV. So, if you happen to have
this transcript in a text file, could you net-mail it to me?

---
 * Origin: *YOPS ]I[* 3.1 GIG * RA/FD/FE RADist * Milwaukee, WI (1:154/750)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 193 of 384
 From : Frank Eva                           1:154/750       .îí 29 .àé 95 08:31
 To   : Tony Trujillo
 Subj : SeaQuest Survives
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: FastEcho 1.42.bA 8060
ref: Lucas...

FE> He's become just another Wesley Crusher, always saving the day...

TT "I guess that's what the "kids" want...

Yeah, and isn't it sad when demographics rules what we see on TV? I was
perfectly happy with the first season, but when the new producer decided
to target a different audience, he lost me...

--- CMPQwk 1.42-R2 #145 ---
Talk is cheap because supply exceeds demand.

---
 * Origin: *YOPS ]I[* 3.1 GIG * RA/FD/FE RADist * Milwaukee, WI (1:154/750)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 194 of 384
 From : Frank Eva                           1:154/750       .îí 29 .àé 95 08:31
 To   : Gary Warren
 Subj : Sliders
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: FastEcho 1.42.bA 8060
GW "As I've said before, both VR5 and SLIDERS are long gone, as of early
GW "this week.

Sliders has been cancelled? Sorry, but I haven't seen you say this, and
it is a major disappointment, if true...

--- CMPQwk 1.42-R2 #145 ---
I used up all my sick days, so I'm calling in dead.

---
 * Origin: *YOPS ]I[* 3.1 GIG * RA/FD/FE RADist * Milwaukee, WI (1:154/750)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 195 of 384
 From : Marc Zingarelli                     1:226/110       .pä 31 .àé 95 13:29
 To   : Jack Butler
 Subj : Highlander
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12  92-0004
Jack Butler was overheard talking to Marc Zingarelli,
about Highlander, in "Joe's Place" and said:

JB>     Certain characters are not going to survive the season finale.  And
JB>the info I am getting tells me that Duncan is going to be getting a might
JB>darker in the future...

I hope that we can count on Amanda Surviving.  She provides comic relief.
And Joe also.  I'd have to change my header if Joe gets killed<g>.

JB>     More cynical and "lone-wolf" like.  Understandable, considering what
JB>Kallas put him through...

Understandable.  Wonder if they're trying to Connorize him?

Later

Marc


---
 LT MARC ZINGARELLI
 Circleville Fire Department
 Local 1232
 Internet:  marc.zingarelli@tcr.com


 * OLX 1.52 * "Another time, MacCleod."

--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12
 * Origin: The Computer Room-Pickerington, Oh (614)861-8377  (1:226/110.0)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 196 of 384
 From : Marc Zingarelli                     1:226/110       .pä 31 .àé 95 13:49
 To   : Jack Butler
 Subj : Highlander Scedule
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12  92-0004
Jack Butler was overheard talking to Myra I Fox,
about Highlander Schedule, in "Joe's Place" and said:

JB>     BTW, the premiere of the 4th season is being directed by Adrian Paul,
JB>and will feature several scenes which were filmed in Scotland.

Besides the fact that I'm not a summer person and summer TV sucks now I'm
really gonna be miserable waiting for these.

Later


Marc

---
 LT MARC ZINGARELLI
 Circleville Fire Department
 Local 1232
 Internet:  marc.zingarelli@tcr.com


 * OLX 1.52 * A gun in hand is better than a cop on the phone!

--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12
 * Origin: The Computer Room-Pickerington, Oh (614)861-8377  (1:226/110.0)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 197 of 384
 From : Marc Zingarelli                     1:226/110       .pä 31 .àé 95 13:50
 To   : Jack Butler
 Subj : Highlander Scedule
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12  92-0004
Jack Butler was overheard talking to Marc Zingarelli,
about Highlander Schedule, in "Joe's Place" and said:

JB>     And about your wife:  remember, accidents do happen.  Forgive her and
JB>let her back in the house... <G, D, R>

But she and the dog have become such good friends<g>.

JB>     BTW, the latest word is that Annie will be returning for at least a
JB>couple of eps in season 4.

On her return all I can say is I am vindicated.  Remember if they're still in t
show.


Later

Marc


---
 LT MARC ZINGARELLI
 Circleville Fire Department
 Local 1232
 Internet:  marc.zingarelli@tcr.com


 * OLX 1.52 * "Bother" said Pooh, it's your husband and he has a .45!

--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12
 * Origin: The Computer Room-Pickerington, Oh (614)861-8377  (1:226/110.0)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 198 of 384
 From : Demian Katz                         1:2626/102      .pä 31 .àé 95 14:57
 To   : FRANK SWARBRICK
 Subj : Re: Sliders & VR.5 cancelled!
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
> Sliders has been cancelled.  As has VR.5 (big surprise there).  Sheesh,
> they hardly even gave Sliders a chance.  As for VR.5, well I wanted it

Twice as long a chance as Space Rangers got.  And at least Sliders was shown in
the right order. :)  (Nothing against Sliders, but I'm taking another
opportunity to whine about Space Rangers. It's a habit of mine. :) )

--- DB 1.58/005132
 * Origin: Castrovalva BBS  610-917-0380 (1:2626/102)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 199 of 384
 From : Demian Katz                         1:2626/102      .pä 31 .àé 95 18:35
 To   : Morten M.nsson
 Subj : Re: X-FILES konference??
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
> Can anybody please confirm, or the opposite ;-(, the rumour about,
> there being a seperate X-Files konference called - plainly: X-FILES ??

There is one, but to my knowledge it isn't backboned, and is thus only available
in a limited area.

--- DB 1.58/005132
 * Origin: Castrovalva BBS  610-917-0380 (1:2626/102)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 200 of 384
 From : Demian Katz                         1:2626/102      .pä 31 .àé 95 18:36
 To   : Morten M.nsson
 Subj : Re: Starfleet Rules as...
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
> 8. If a dangerous solution to a problem, haven't been tested before, try
> one of the following commands: "Redirect Power..." or
> "Reverse Polarity..."

   ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Actually, that reverse polarity bit seems more appropriate in Doctor Who
emergencies. :)

                                                                Demian

... "I'll just reverse the polarity of the neutron flow..."

--- DB 1.58/005132
 * Origin: Castrovalva BBS  610-917-0380 (1:2626/102)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 201 of 384
 From : Brian Henderson                     1:207/241       .ÿò 26 .àé 95 13:08
 To   : Jack Butler
 Subj : B5 Ripoff: Ds9
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Jack Butler wrote about B5 Ripoff: Ds9

JB> Actually, he would.  Why, you ask?  Simple:  there is a concept out
JB> there called "embezzelment".  If he were to do anything else with
JB> the money, he'd go to jail for a long time.

Actually, he says that a lot of other shows have cast parties, etc. all of
which are sanctioned by the producing company.  JMS is putting all the money
that could be used for other non-B5 purposes back into special effects, etc.


... "Sleeping is not the problem.  Waking up is the problem" - Ivanova, B5

___
 X RM 1.3  X Eval Day -19 X

--- Maximus 2.02
 * Origin: The Belching Dragon Inn & Tavern (1:207/241)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 202 of 384
 From : Brian Henderson                     1:207/241       .ÿò 26 .àé 95 13:10
 To   : Richard Yamagata
 Subj : B5 Ripoff: Ds9
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Richard Yamagata wrote about B5 Ripoff: Ds9

RY> I do not know if this is true or not, but I would like to think that
RY> it is true for B5.  From the amount of energy that JMS expends by
RY> posting on GEnie and CIS, I believe that B5 means much more to him
RY> than a meal ticket.  My son is waiting for his B5 micro-machines,
RY> but from what I garner from JMS posts, it seems JMS finds this type
RY> of marketing, demeaning.

Go to any Toys-R-Us for the Micro Machines.  They are *VERY* nice (I have all
four sets).  And yes, JMS is very bothered by the way the Star Trek Marketing
Machine works and has vowed to have B5 stand alone, not just be a vehicle to
sell action figures and toys.  I admire someone who can stand up for their
principles like that rather than sell out to the highest bidder.

RY> All I know is that from looking at the Nielsens, the Paramount
RY> Network's success is all owed to ST Voyager.  I think that the ST
RY> Voyager Q&A was a cheap ploy to get Voyager fans to sit through
RY> hours of vapid programming just to find the Q&A sequence.  I think
RY> this supports your arguement about "selling grandma."  As for
RY> Warner, their network ratings are lower than Fox and Paramount.  How
RY> much lower and non- profitable can you get?  It may be a blessing
RY> that B5 is syndicated an not a Warner Network offering.  Ry

Well, considering that both UPN and WBN have dumped their entire programming
lineup (except for Voyager and DS9, natch), I don't think either one was very
happy with the way it went.  Let's face it, when Fox started, they were the
absolute lowest, most awful nonsense on the tube, but they have improved
dramatically.  It will also happen for UPN and WBN.


... "He started dying on his own." - G'Kar, B5

___
 X RM 1.3  X Eval Day -19 X

--- Maximus 2.02
 * Origin: The Belching Dragon Inn & Tavern (1:207/241)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 203 of 384
 From : Brian Henderson                     1:207/241       .ÿò 26 .àé 95 13:14
 To   : David Johnston
 Subj : B5 Ripoff: Ds9
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
David Johnston wrote about B5 Ripoff: Ds9

DJ> Unfair.  Star Trek may not have a grand masterplan, but it's
DJ> inconsistencies are not monetary in origin.

Well, no.  It's inconsistencies are the result of incompetence.  However, I
firmly believe that if it would make them money, they'd do anything, no matter
how ridiculous.


... "Pottypottypottypotty." Wakko, A!

___
 X RM 1.3  X Eval Day -19 X

--- Maximus 2.02
 * Origin: The Belching Dragon Inn & Tavern (1:207/241)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 204 of 384
 From : Brian Henderson                     1:207/241       .ÿò 26 .àé 95 13:18
 To   : Scott Gates
 Subj : B5 Catch-Up
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Scott Gates wrote about B5 Catch-Up

SG> Do you know how I could get these from internet ftp?

Synopses of every B5 episode is available from ftp.hyperion.com in
/pub/babylon5/synopsis


... "No one on Babylon 5 is quite what they seem..." - G'Kar, B5

___
 X RM 1.3  X Eval Day -19 X

--- Maximus 2.02
 * Origin: The Belching Dragon Inn & Tavern (1:207/241)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 205 of 384
 From : Brian Henderson                     1:207/241       .ÿò 26 .àé 95 13:21
 To   : Frank Swarbrick
 Subj : B5 Talk
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Frank Swarbrick wrote about B5 Talk

FS> I have to totally agree with you on the Richard Biggs.  He is a
FS> wondeful actor, and I personally don't see any reason why he
FS> couldn't be in every episode.  (After all, McCoy always was. <g>)  I
FS> don't know that he should get starring credits, simply *because*
FS> he's not in every episode, but than neither should Mira Furlan
FS> (Delenn).  In fact, she's probably my least favorite character.

Screen Actor Guild rules demand that if the actor is in a certain number of
episodes (I think it is 12, but am probably wrong), they must be pictured in
the opening credits.


... "Hokey Pokey, it doesn't mean A THING!!??" Londo to Delenn, B5

___
 X RM 1.3  X Eval Day -19 X

--- Maximus 2.02
 * Origin: The Belching Dragon Inn & Tavern (1:207/241)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 206 of 384
 From : Brian Henderson                     1:207/241       .ÿò 26 .àé 95 13:27
 To   : Frank Eva
 Subj : Best Sf
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Frank Eva wrote about Best Sf

FE> SG "Harlan's problem with B5 is he doesn't get his way 110% of the
FE> time. SG "(the extra 10% comes when he does get his way, was wrong,
FE> and will SG "blame someone else.
FE>
FE> He did sound like a whiny baby in the SFU interview...

Well... he *IS*.  Don't get me wrong, I've known Harlan for a long time, but
a bad attitude is about the best you'll ever expect to get from him.  Sheesh,
you want to see bad, try to see him at a SF convention sometime.  He sits
around and badmouths the con, the people, his fans, you name it and then
volunteers to come again next year.


... "Run out of small children to BUTCHER?" - G'Kar, B5

___
 X RM 1.3  X Eval Day -19 X

--- Maximus 2.02
 * Origin: The Belching Dragon Inn & Tavern (1:207/241)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 207 of 384
 From : Victor O'Rear                       1:202/1313      .óá 27 .àé 95 06:24
 To   : All
 Subj : San Diego Comic-Con WWW page
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 * Forwarded from "a.fandom.cons"
 * Originally by Janet Tait
 * Originally to All
 * Originally dated 24 May 1995, 17:01

Fm IntrNet:  jtait@ucsd.edu  [alt.fandom.cons]

The San Diego Comic-Con WWW page has just been updated. It now includes
registration information and forms, hotel information and a map of downtown
San Diego, contact information for Comic-Con, a current guest list, guest
interviews, information on programming, special events, the exhibit hall,
and nominations for the 1994 Will Eisner Comics Industry Awards. For those
without access to the web, some of the more vital information is below:

Dates: July 27-30, 1995
Places: San Diego Convention Center, 111 W. Harbor Dr., Downtown San Diego
Films Rooms: Convention Center and Hyatt Regency
Gaming Rooms: Convention Center and Clarion
Hours: Thursday: doors open at 10 a.m. for preregistered members, on-site
registration begins at
11 a.m. Friday, Saturday, and Sunday: Doors open at 10 a.m. Exhibit Hall
closes at 7 p.m. except
on Sunday, when it closes at 5 p.m.
Events: Eisner and Inkpot Awards Ceremony, Friday, Mariott Marina.
Saturday night party, Under the Sails area, Convention Center.
Masquerade: Saturday night at the Civic Theatre (shuttles will be
available)
Deadlines: Preregistration: June 19; Hotel reservations, June 23

Preregistration (by mail, postmarked no later than June 19, 1995)
Adults over 16: $45 for all four days
Children 7-16: $22.20 for all four days
Children under 7 free with adult member

Please note correction from Update#2

On-Site registration (available on site only):
Adults over 16: $55 for all four days
Children 7-16: $27for all four days
Children under 7 free with adult member

Guests:

Neil Gaiman
Stan Lee
Rob Liefeld
Scott Bakula
Clive Barker
Roger Corman
Tom Sito (director of _Pocahontas_)
Ryoichi Ikegami
Simon Bisley
James Gurney
Jeff Smith
Joe Sinnott
Ramona Fradon
Mike Baron
Alan Davis
Stan Sakai
Gil Kane
Mike Peters
Irv Novick
Harvey Pekar
Charles Burns
Greg and Tim Hildebrandt
Will Eisner

Unfortunately Art Spiegelman and Francoise Mouly will not be joining us due
to a
scheduling conflict. Christopher Lambert, announced as a guest in the San
Diego Comic-Con Update #2, has also been forced to cancel due to scheduling
conflicts.

San Diego Comic-Con Address:

San Diego Comic-Con
P.O. Box 128458
San Diego, CA 92112-8458
Ph: 619-491-2475
Fax: 619-544-0743
WWW: http://www.digimark.net/wraith/SDCC/
Email: sdccweb@aol.com


--
Janet Tait
SDCC Publications Coordinator
sdccweb@aol.com

--- JMail-H 2.80 (Omega 3) [UNREGIS
 * Origin: Written Worlds 619.697.4073 (NONDMN 1:202/1313)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 208 of 384
 From : Gamin Davis                         1:202/1313      .óá 27 .àé 95 19:28
 To   : Bruce Baugh
 Subj : B5 VS ST
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Bruce Baugh while mentioning B5 VS ST said:

BB>On (09 May 95) Mark Jones wrote to Bruce Baugh...
BB>No fooling? It's not ringing any bells, honestly. Colonel Green's
  >War and the Eugenics Wars, yes, but not WW3.

    It WAS mentioned--I have the episode.  "Bread and Circuses", I
believe.  You're rusty on your TOS facts.
                                 Gamin Davis

From the house where Star Trek:  The Original Series Rules!
... If this isn't war, why is CNN massing on the border?
---
 * TLX v4.00 *

--- JMail-H 2.80 (Omega 3) [UNREGIS
 * Origin: Written Worlds BBS - 619.697.4073 (NONDMN 1:202/1313)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 209 of 384
 From : Gamin Davis                         1:202/1313      .óá 27 .àé 95 19:28
 To   : Deana Kristof
 Subj : Counselor Troi
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Deana Kristof while mentioning Counselor Troi said:

DK>Tell me.  Do you think a real MILITARY organization lacking discipline
  >last very long?    Do you think a real MILITARY organization lacking ha
  >security procedures wouldn't be taken advantage of in a second?

     Jesus H. Christ, are we back to THIS argument again???  Get this
through your head, everybody: STARFLEET *IS* A MILITARY ORGANIZATION!!
It's one with a few variations in focus, but it IS a military! Nor does
it "lack discipline" or "security procedures".  Anybody who thinks that
simply hasn't been paying attention.

DK>Starfleet has ideals.  That's something that MILITARY organizations lac
  >Sure, there's a chain of command, and it's a bureaucracy just like a
  >military organization.  But just becasue they defend what they believe
  >(get that DEFEND) does not make them a military organization.   The fac
  >that Starfleet, (until recently; the Defiant) does not have Warships te
  >us that Starfleet is decidely Not a military organization.  Sure, Starf
  >is the most militarily-oriented section of the Federation, but their mo
  >like a Police force than a Military organization.  Starfleet does not i
  >unless provoked, they defend their own territories and do not attack wi
  >due provocation.  Doesn't sound very military to me...

     You obviously know nothing about the military, then, because
everything you just described is an attribute of a MILITARY
ORGANIZATION.  If it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck, odds are,
it's a duck.  (BTW, I am a Navy wife so I have some basis for
comparison.)
                                     Gamin Davis

From the house where Star Trek:  The Original Series Rules!
... How can we have a mutiny if nobody's in command?
---
 * TLX v4.00 *

--- JMail-H 2.80 (Omega 3) [UNREGIS
 * Origin: Written Worlds BBS - 619.697.4073 (NONDMN 1:202/1313)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 210 of 384
 From : Tammy Blandino                      1:106/7315      .cê 28 .àé 95 19:23
 To   : Karmin St.jean
 Subj : SF Channel and Anime
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
While skinny dipping Karmin St.jean was talking to Chris Baugh.

 KS> (note, many of these may get a second chance at life this fall when
 KS> the SciFi Channel introduces it's new Saturday Morning Anime lineup!)

 YaHOoooo!

 Unfortunately SciFi Channel isn't offerred by my cable company, but I
 have friends who have it....thanks....




... I think that I'm dizzy, and I rather like it. --Pinky
--- FreeMail & Blue Wave/TAG v2.12
 * Origin: The Wizard's Realm ** (713) 946-7315 ** (1:106/7315)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 211 of 384
 From : Tippi Blevins                       1:106/7315      .cê 28 .àé 95 19:53
 To   : Frank Swarbrick
 Subj : Sliders & VR.5 cancelled!
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
*** Quoting Frank Swarbrick to All dated 05-24-95 ***

> Well, for everone wondering if Quinn is going to die...we'll never know.
> Sliders has been cancelled.  As has VR.5 (big surprise there).  Sheesh,
> they hardly even gave Sliders a chance.  As for VR.5, well I wanted it
> to continue but I didn't hold out much hope.  I'm surprised that
> Sliders

Well I hear tell that we get a new Aaron Spelling TV series about vampires.
ARGH!  I don't know what it's called, but how about "Transylvania 90210"?
Honestly!

--- FreeMail/T.A.G. 2.7c Standard
 * Origin: The Wizard's Realm ** (713) 946-7315 ** (1:106/7315)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 212 of 384
 From : Tippi Blevins                       1:106/7315      .cê 28 .àé 95 19:54
 To   : Debra Milner
 Subj : Help on X-Files Finale
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
*** Quoting Debra Milner to Dana Zendell dated 05-26-95 ***

>
> I have both on tape, and tell you what, I'll be more than happy to send
> you a copy, if you can send me your address...BTW, did you by any
> chance get tonight's (part 2) episode on tape?  Guess what dummy forgot
> to set the VCR tonight...<G>

You didn't miss part 2;)  Part 2 won't be on till next season.  This past
Friday's episode was a repeat (the one where a ghost tried to solve its own
murder).

Hope that helps!:)

--- FreeMail/T.A.G. 2.7c Standard
 * Origin: The Wizard's Realm ** (713) 946-7315 ** (1:106/7315)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 213 of 384
 From : Skip Shayotovich                    1:161/42        .îí 29 .àé 95 06:38
 To   : Frank Swarbrick
 Subj : VR.5
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 = A long time ago, in a galaxy far, far away, Frank said: =

 FS> Alas, 'tis been cancelled.

     Fox has developed a VERY bad habit of cancelling SF shows that end
on cliff hangers... they're REALLY starting to wear thin with me and my
patience.

 FS> Found out that Space is going to be on Sunday nights at 7:00pm (6:00
 FS> central/mtn).  The storyline seems to be thus...

     It does sound good... and it better be VERY good if they want to
appease me at this point.  They canned ALIEN NATION (a GREAT SF show) way
back when it was still a fledgling network, now they cancel two more good
SF shows.  NOT good.

 FS> I wonder how far the show has been planned out.  Hopefully they've
 FS> planned out in advance like Babylon 5 (well, maybe not five years in
 FS> advance, but...) so they have a story "goal" to work toward.

     I think ALL SF shows should do that... Babylon 5 is an excellent
series, in part because of this 5 year story arc.  Other SF produced
series should take note.

--- FLAME v1.1
 * Origin: Records Department TBBS - Pleasanton, CA (510) 426-0470 (1:161/42)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 214 of 384
 From : Skip Shayotovich                    1:161/42        .îí 29 .àé 95 06:39
 To   : Patrick Thoms
 Subj : WHAT'S IN A NAME?
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 = A long time ago, in a galaxy far, far away, Patrick said: =

 PT> Highlander: The Sorcerer

     That was one of the original names...

 PT> Highlander: The Final Dimension.

     This was THE final title.  Reason?  Probably because "Dimension"
films was the only company dumb enough to release it and they undoubtedly
had a clause in the contract stating their company name should be put in
the FINAL title.

--- FLAME v1.1
 * Origin: Records Department TBBS - Pleasanton, CA (510) 426-0470 (1:161/42)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 215 of 384
 From : Lanae Lauderdale                    1:106/440       .îí 29 .àé 95 19:59
 To   : ROBERT LIDGREN
 Subj : SLIDERS KILLED TOO!!
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: InterEcho 1.04 6E010618
Babylon 5 is extended for another year. Heard it straight from Jerry Doyle  at a
con a few weeks ago. He had just received the news.


--- GTMail 1.25
 * Origin: Bay Area LightSpeed San_Leon, TX (1:106/440.0)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 216 of 384
 From : FRANK SWARBRICK                     1:104/825       .îí 29 .àé 95 20:55
 To   : STARWOLF
 Subj : B5 Baseball
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On 05-27-95  00:37 Starwolf, the little pine weasel, said:

 St> I wondered about that.  In the opening film, you've got the captain
 St> commenting to Deleen that it was real tricky, what with the huge space
 St> needed for life support and other essential functions, to have this
 St> teeny, tiny space set aside for a Zen garden.

 St> But they had the room to spare for a baseball diamond???

Priorities, man, priorities!

        Frank

... No one can hear when you're Screaming in Digital!
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12
--- Silver Xpress Mail System 5.3W1G
 * Origin: Bailey Info Exchange : 303-674-0147 (1:104/825)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 217 of 384
 From : FRANK SWARBRICK                     1:104/825       .îí 29 .àé 95 21:00
 To   : ROBERT LIDGREN
 Subj : MY FRIEND MAX
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On 05-28-95  22:11 Robert Lidgren, the little pine weasel, said:

 RL> RE:  Your question about the two versions of MAX HEADROOM-->

 -> >Max Headroom: 10 points!
 ->
 -> Can anybody tell me, what the difference is between the UK and the US
 -> versions of the show. Are there different actors? Different episodes?

Or..??

 RL> The US version was cast with entirely different actors, as I recall.
 RL> The only hold-over was the actor who played Max.  The British version
 RL> was much better. It had a grittier feel to it and a somewhat darker
 RL> tone.  The humour was more sophisticated.  Here in Canada we saw the
 RL> entire run of both versions so I can speak from direct knowledge.

You mean there was a whole British Max Headroom series?  I thought there
was just one movie.  Interesting...

        Frank

... No one can hear when you're Screaming in Digital!
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12
--- Silver Xpress Mail System 5.3W1G
 * Origin: Bailey Info Exchange : 303-674-0147 (1:104/825)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 218 of 384
 From : Mark Jones                          1:105/302.47    .îí 29 .àé 95 23:57
 To   : VINCENT MCCONNELL
 Subj : Star Wars
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On (27 May 95) VINCENT MCCONNELL wrote to MARK JONES...

 VM> discussion is based on rumor and fan speculation which turned
 VM> into "good sources" about the new movies, and has been going on
 VM> for years now. Lucas/Film/Arts has released several statements
 VM> actually confirming this one.

Talk is cheap.  Even "official" talk.  I still haven't seen or heard
anything to convince this is anything *but* talk.

 VM> If Lucas were out of ideas he would get someone to write them for
 VM> him. It's that simple. He has NOT been delaying these films,
 VM> because there have been no official releases before the 1998 one.
 VM> And the fact remains that if he were out of ideas... someone else
 VM> would write them.

And maybe someone will.  But it HASN'T HAPPENED YET.  And until
there's more evidence than a Hollywood *press release* (for God's
sake!), I still don't believe it will happen.

 VM> If he didn't want to do them he would not. People have been
 VM> hearing BS for years now, and until it was confirmed they never
 VM> actually *expected* anything. If he didn't want to do them it
 VM> would have been oh-so-easy to have done just that.

People have been expecting (and slavering for) more Star Wars movies
since ROTJ.  That's one of the reasons I don't believe it *now*.
Maybe *you* didn't expect anything until this recent "official"
release--but lots of other people did.  And they're *still* waiting.
I think they'll still be waiting when 2000 rolls around.

 VM> The SW re-hype has been doing well enough without hope of a new
 VM> movie in 1998/99. The fact is, not many read SW Insider, and the
 VM> merchandise is just appealing in itself to a crowd.

...and if the studio fanned the flames with rumors of an impending new
trilogy, the stuff will probably sell even better.  No marketing exec
ever thought that "good enough" couldn't be improved.

   You guys seem to take it as a personal affront that I don't believe
that the second coming of Star Wars is imminent.
   If you think so, fine.  Somebody asked why I didn't believe it.
These were my reasons.  If you aren't convinced, that's fine too.
Time will tell who was right.


... Waco:  proof that Janet Reno approves of children smoking....

--- PPoint 1.78
 * Origin: HQ of World Domination, Inc. (1:105/302.47)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 219 of 384
 From : Mark Jones                          1:105/302.47    .òp 30 .àé 95 00:09
 To   : Morten M.nsson
 Subj : Starfleet Rules as...
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On (25 May 95) Morten MÆnsson wrote to All...

 MM> Having read something about Starfleet rules, as interpreted by Captain
 MM> Picard and the crew of Enterprise, I got the urge to add a few more
 MM> rules...:

 MM>  8. If a dangerous solution to a problem, haven't been tested before,
 MM>     try one of the following commands: "Redirect Power..." or
 MM>     "Reverse Polarity..."
 MM>
 MM>  9. If access to a high-level-security-system or area is impossible,
 MM>     try the ventilation duct or the loose access-panel right next
 MM>     to it.
 MM>
 MM> 10. If your ships highly sophisticated automatic controls are unable
 MM>     to cope with an unnatural cosmic fenomenon, try flying it
 MM>     better manually!

And I've got a couple, as well:

11.  The use of fuses and circuit breakers is strictly prohibited!

12.  All manual overrides must be electronically operated.


... Mulder!  FBI!  Drop the sword, McLeod--I have a few questions....

--- PPoint 1.78
 * Origin: HQ of World Domination, Inc. (1:105/302.47)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 220 of 384
 From : Jack Butler                         1:363/309       .òp 30 .àé 95 07:02
 To   : Pamela Crossett
 Subj : Highlander
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 Quoth Pamela Crossett, "Nevermore".

 PC> God I hate to sound illiterate, but then I hated almost all of
 PC> Shakespeare's tragedies. So just how did Banquo disappear?

     He evaporated.  Banquo was a ghost...


 PC> About how long, chronologically, would you estimate Duncan and Anne's
 PC> went  on (for it's abysmally short period) anyway?

     Perhaps four months, five on the outside.


 PC> I will look forward to both. He was great.
 PC> Was he ever in the series before this season's two-parter?

     He first appeared in "Methos", the third episode in the "Song of the
Executioner" storyline.


 PC> What is "the contract" - Fox's contract w/Adrian Paul, the owners of
 PC> the  Highlander concepts contract w/Fox?? What?

     The production contract guaranteed four years of episodes.  We are now
going to enter the fourth year.  No word has been made on whether or not
there will be a year five.


 PC> Come on - give me a hint.
 PC> Actually, give me more than a hint. I want all the details. I want it
 PC> all.  Can you arrange that?

     Okay, I won't go into detail, but:  at least one of the current crop
of characters is *not* going to survive into the next season.  Also, MacLeod
is going to get a bit edgier, a bit darker.  Not surprising considering
everything he has gone through lately...

     Jack Butler



... Beam me up, Scotty!  It ate my phaser!
--- FMail 0.98a
 * Origin: Forethought BBS -=- Orlando FL -=- 407-277-7530 (1:363/309)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 221 of 384
 From : Dan Kachoogian                      1:107/953       .òp 30 .àé 95 11:00
 To   : ROBERT LIDGREN
 Subj : Re: SLIDERS KILLED TOO!!
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
*** Quoting ROBERT LIDGREN to ALL ***

RL> I wonder if Babylon 5, ST Voyager, ST Deep Space 9 and X-Files
RL> will now be
RL> cancelled too so the networks can bring back "Lost in Space:  The
RL> 90's
RL> edition":  AAARRRRGhhhhhhhh!!!

Comparing basic premise alone, isn't ST:V the SAME SHOW as Lost in Space?

                                                       -Dan

---
 * Origin: The Juice Bar BBS (908) 298-0764 (1:107/953)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 222 of 384
 From : Jeff Schlenker                      1:288/19        .òp 30 .àé 95 11:24
 To   : ROBERT LIDGREN
 Subj : Re: EARTH 2/SO LONG
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

-=> ROBERT LIDGREN was overheard speaking to JEFF SCHLENKER <=-

 -> Yea, I liked it as well.  When it first came on, I wasn't too impressed, bu
 -> I kept watching and I guess it sorta grew on me.

 RL> Let's hope down the line something from a non-Star Trek universe can
 RL> succeed and do so in a powerful way.  I guess X-Files demonstrates that
 RL> such fare is possible and can be produced with innovative scripts and
 RL> with characters who have a tremendous charisma.

There *is* one thing we can be pleased about.  At least more shows are
getting a chance (albeit a small chance sometimes).  It wasn't long ago
when Star Trek was the *only* show of the genre that seemed to be
accepted.

Jeff


*===============================================================*
*  Jeffrey A. Schlenker                >>>Internet<<<           *
*  Hazel, South Dakota           jeff.schlenker@lake-city.com   *
*===============================================================*

... "All new Pentium systems now come with a *free* pocket calculator!"
___ TagDude 0.87 [Unregistered]
---
--- < Sig-It > v3.00 by Brandon S. Bell

--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12
 * Origin: LakeCity BBS * V34/4 Gigs Watertown SD 605 886-0849 (1:288/19)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 223 of 384
 From : Paul Worley                         1:2601/515      .òp 30 .àé 95 15:25
 To   : all
 Subj :
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Anybody know when GENERATIONS will be coming out on video?

Paul

--- GoldED 2.42.G0614
 * Origin: USS Wolf - Wheatland, PA  (1:2601/515)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 224 of 384
 From : Joel Jessup                         1:2613/105      .òp 30 .àé 95 22:43
 To   : Arsenal
 Subj : SeaQuest DSV
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Sadly, no.  I generally don't hear much on Seaquest before the rest of the
world.  (IMHO, I don't think NBC knows: a) What they want to do with the show
and b) what they're doing period)
I do scan the web for Star Trek related items, but haven't come across any site
that touches upon Seaquest.  If I do, I'll let you know.
JGJ

--- Maximus 2.00
 * Origin: Desert Heat BBS (1:2613/105)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 225 of 384
 From : David Johnston                      1:342/14        .pä 31 .àé 95 01:24
 To   : Frank Eva
 Subj : Voyager Nose Diving?
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
-> DJ "Frankly I don't find Chakotay and Janeway particularly youthful
-> in DJ "their appearance or their demeanor.  Paris, Kim, Torres and
-> Tuvok DJ "are fairly youthful, or more accurately give that
-> impression. DJ "Essentially this means that we have three mature
-> starship officers DJ "and four young adult starship officers.  I
-> don't see the problem.
-> I agree, Chakotay and Janeway are not the ones I was referring to. I
-> don't have a complete answer to this question, but I do know that to
-> me, this series is going rapidly downhill. In addition to bad writing
-> and constantly trying to retell old stories, I find the demographics
-> of the crew unappealing. You have no problem with this... I do...

So, you don't like Paris and Kim?

--- PCBoard (R) v15.21/100
 * Origin: Freddy's Place - Edm. AB - 28.8K (403) 456-4241 (1:342/14)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 226 of 384
 From : Chris Carter                        1:105/302.23    .pä 31 .àé 95 03:54
 To   : Jack Butler
 Subj : Kosh's Karaoke machine
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 JB> You sick, sick little monkey.  <G>

I always take Dramamine before I go swinging from branches. ;~)

Chris - carter@teleport.com


--- cPoint v2.17/FreeWare
 * Origin: Carter's Conspicuous Consumption (1:105/302.23)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 227 of 384
 From : Rumble                              1:163/436       .pä 31 .àé 95 06:42
 To   : Pramod Korathota
 Subj : The New Sq Series..
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
I heard that next year there will be a mix of wierd and sci-fi plots. that
should be excellent!


--- Maximus 2.02
 * Origin: Coven's Den (613)746-3584 = 650+ Echoes & 4.3+ Gigs (1:163/436)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 228 of 384
 From : Rumble                              1:163/436       .pä 31 .àé 95 06:45
 To   : Frank Eva
 Subj : SeaQuest Survives
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
The plot are suppost to swing back to sci-fi next year so try to tune in.

--- Maximus 2.02
 * Origin: Coven's Den (613)746-3584 = 650+ Echoes & 4.3+ Gigs (1:163/436)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 229 of 384
 From : Karmin St.jean                      1:321/309       .pä 31 .àé 95 12:17
 To   : Morten M.nsson
 Subj : MY FRIEND MAX
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 >  Can anybody tell me, what the difference is between the UK and the
 > US
 >  versions of the show. Are there different actors? Different
 > episodes? Or..??
 >
 >  If anyone has a short episode listing from either version,
 >  preferably both, you will be included in my bedtime prayers! ;-)


YES! The major difference is in Bryce Lynch, Max's creator.

In the British film version that was made for Cinemax, Bryce was downright
evil. For example, when Grossman (called Grossberg in the tv series) told Bryce
that Edison had gotten "Too damned close twice already." Bryce replied. "Well,
fire him. Or you could always kill him." as if it were the same as tossing out
an old newspaper rather than an ol' news reporter. Also in that version Bryce
was portrayed by actor Paul Spurrier (who hasn't been heard from since!)

In the American made for ABC version, Bryce was played by Chris Young. He wasn't
evil, in this version, he merely had trouble coping with emotions and people who
displayed them because he'd grown up in front of a tv screen and a computer and
didn't seem to have any of his own. He was probably a borderline sociopath
because of his sheltered upbringing, but he wasn't evil. For example, he didn't
suggest killing Edison like Paul's Bryce did.

Other cast changes:

Breughal:
ABC: Jere Burns
ENGLAND: Hilton McRae (not the same as Major Dad, I don't think.)

Murray:
ABC: Jeffrey Tambor
can't recall the one who played him in the English version.

Cheviot:
ABC: George Coe
again, I forget who played him in the English version.

Also, in the end of the British version of Max Headroom Bryce and Grossberg were
both cornered by Edison while in the American version Bryce helped Edison and
became friends with him, even to the point in saving his life during the
"Neurospin" episode. Note: Neurospin means "Head Trip" and refers to the
hallucination Edison had, not to the bracelet he was wearing that caused it. and
in the British version Max ended up in the hands of Big Time TV.

I hope that answers your quetion.

--- FLAME v1.1
 * Origin: Final Approach BBS - Spfld, MA (413)783-5853 (1:321/309)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 230 of 384
 From : Karmin St.jean                      1:321/309       .pä 31 .àé 95 12:19
 To   : Robert Lidgren
 Subj : MY FRIEND MAX
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 > The US version was cast with entirely different actors, as I recall.
 >  The only
 > hold-over was the actor who played Max.  The British version was
 > much better.
 > It had a grittier feel to it and a somewhat darker tone.  The humour
 > was more
 > sophisticated.  Here in Canada we saw the entire run of both
 > versions so I can
 > speak from direct knowledge.

Actually, Amanda Pays and G.W. Morgan (Theora and Blank Reg) were also held
over from the series.

I feel sorry for Paul Spurrier and Chris Young, though. Bryce Lynch was a jinxed
role.

--- FLAME v1.1
 * Origin: Final Approach BBS - Spfld, MA (413)783-5853 (1:321/309)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 231 of 384
 From : Kay Shapero                         1:102/524       .pä 31 .àé 95 13:08
 To   : Tony Trujillo
 Subj : Re: Sliders Continuity
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <May 31 02:29>, Tony Trujillo (1:280/9) wrote to K.c. Jones:

 TT>Looks like the show hasn't been renewed by FOX at this time
 TT>but there's hope that it will be picked up as a summer
 TT>replacement OR by another network. I'm not counting SLIDERS
 TT>out yet but I'm crossing my fingers that it will slide back
 TT>onto television in the future.

They'll have to do it pretty quickly, or the cast will have scattered to the
winds (I really doubt John Rhys-Davies will be available for long...) Of course
if they do I do have one little suggestion...


...lose the dog

--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 232 of 384
 From : Kay Shapero                         1:102/524       .pä 31 .àé 95 13:10
 To   : Frank Eva
 Subj : Confessions & Lamentation
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <May 29 08:31>, Frank Eva (1:154/750) wrote to All:

 FE>                           SPOILER ALERT!!!
 FE>                             __________
 FE>                            / _________ \
 FE>                           / /         \ \
 FE>           ------------------------------------------------
 FE>          / ______________________________________________ \
 FE>         / /                                              \ \
 FE>        / /                                                \ \
 FE>
 FE>        \ \                                                / /
 FE>
 FE>          \ \                       ____________________ / /
 FE>            \ \                    l-------------------  /
 FE>              \ \                                    / /
 FE>              /   \                                /   \
 FE>             / / \  \               ____________ /  / \ \
 FE>            / /    \  \            l-----------   /    \ \
 FE>           / /      /   \                    /   \      \ \
 FE>          / /      /  /\  \                /  /\  \      \ \
 FE>          \ \_____/  /   \  \            /  /   \  \_____/ /
 FE>           \________/      \  \________/  /      \________/
 FE>                             \__________/

 FE>like MedLab, Sheridan said... "I can't let you out". If the
 FE>disease truly was "airborn", why would it have made any difference
 FE>to let Delenn and Lennier out, since EVERYONE had already been exposed?

There are degrees of exposure, and theirs would certainly have been higher.
However I suspect the real reason would be political - everybody on the station
was afraid of catching it too and they'd be in serious danger if they left again
before there was a cure, evidence they were not suceptable, or both.

 FE>2. Now that the Markabs have been totally wiped out, we viewers
 FE>are deprived of what seemed to be a very interesting race of aliens.

And the Babylon 5 universe of one more slant of view on the universe.  A bit
loss all around.  You'll note that that news announcer said that there were
probably surviving individuals in remote places, but the Markab civilization was
dead; maybe some of these survivors will pop up later.

--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 233 of 384
 From : Kay Shapero                         1:102/524       .pä 31 .àé 95 13:19
 To   : Frank Eva
 Subj : Knives
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <May 29 08:31>, Frank Eva (1:154/750) wrote to Richard Yamagata:
[Knives, also Confessions and Lamentations]


 FE>                           SPOILER ALERT!!!
 FE>                             __________
 FE>                            / _________ \
 FE>                           / /         \ \
 FE>           ------------------------------------------------
 FE>          / ______________________________________________ \
 FE>         / /                                              \ \
 FE>        / /                                                \ \
 FE>
 FE>        \ \                                                / /
 FE>
 FE>          \ \                       ____________________ / /
 FE>            \ \                    l-------------------  /
 FE>              \ \                                    / /
 FE>              /   \                                /   \
 FE>             / / \  \               ____________ /  / \ \
 FE>            / /    \  \            l-----------   /    \ \
 FE>           / /      /   \                    /   \      \ \
 FE>          / /      /  /\  \                /  /\  \      \ \
 FE>          \ \_____/  /   \  \            /  /   \  \_____/ /
 FE>           \________/      \  \________/  /      \________/
 FE>                             \__________/

 FE>to me, it was also a "throwaway", just like "Confessions and
 FE>Lamentations". I know how hard this must be, especially when JMS
 FE>uses other writers who don't have a full comprehension of the 5 year
 FE>B5 story arc, but I wish he would reveal more of the main story arc
 FE>with each new episode...

By the very nature of things, we don't know for sure just how much of the story
arc is really effected by an episode.  Both of the above involve strong
character focus, and changes to the environment as a whole be it the political
repercussions of Londo's live opera plot in Knives, or the loss of an entire
civilization in "Confessions".  The effects THIS could have are many and varied.


--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 234 of 384
 From : Jack Butler                         1:363/309       .pä 31 .àé 95 16:01
 To   : Pamela Crossett
 Subj : Highlander, The Series
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 Quoth Pamela Crossett, "Nevermore".

 PC> but i did rent highlander 3 and saw those two tessa episodes. i've
 PC> rented everything that says highlander, including the infamous episode
 PC> 2. i'll watch it all.

     For the record, that is *not* Highlander 3, was never intended to *be*
Highlander 3, and should not be thought of as Highlander 3.  What it is, on
the other hand, is the first of the episode releases on videotape.
     The rest of the episodes will be released in fits and spurts over the
next several years.

     Jack Butler
     Highlander Guru



... "Eternal peace.  I hope she finds it." -- Michael Moore
--- FMail 0.98a
 * Origin: Forethought BBS -=- Orlando FL -=- 407-277-7530 (1:363/309)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 235 of 384
 From : Rumble                              1:163/436       .pä 31 .àé 95 16:13
 To   : David Johnston
 Subj : Voyager Nose Diving?
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Well when it comes to TNG you seem to hate all the most popular people!

--- Maximus 2.02
 * Origin: Coven's Den (613)746-3584 = 650+ Echoes & 4.3+ Gigs (1:163/436)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 236 of 384
 From : Kay Shapero                         1:102/524       .pä 31 .àé 95 17:43
 To   : Jack Butler
 Subj : Confessions et. al.
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <May 26 06:48>, Jack Butler (1:363/309) wrote to John Kahane:

 JB>     The rat-bastards who run WOFL, FOX 35 decided that
 JB>Confessions and Lamentations was just a bit too intense, so they
 JB>re-ran Knives instead.

Sheesh!  Those Shadows are everywhere!

(If you can, get hold of a tape - it was a good episode despite temptations to
get more than a bit heavy handed.)

--- msged 2.06
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 Msg  : 237 of 384
 From : Debra Milner                        1:112/285       .pä 31 .àé 95 18:42
 To   : Frank Glover
 Subj : X-Files Finale
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 > DM>  How DID Mulder get out of that car?

 >    We don't know how, or even *if.* That's the cliff-hanger...

You mean......it's like "who shot JR"? and the to-be-continued is NEXT season?

I HATE when they do that....

--- GEcho 1.00
 * Origin: Wolverine's Asylum, past the boonies in Macclenny, FL (1:112/285)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 238 of 384
 From : Myra I Fox                          1:123/10        .pä 31 .àé 95 19:10
 To   : Jack Butler
 Subj : Highlander Schedule
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

-=>Quoting Jack Butler to Myra I Fox<=-

 MIF> Oh, I didn't know she was definitely gone... I figured that she would
 MIF> come back into the storyline later... oh, well <sigh>.

 JB> It is beginning to look like she may actually show up for an
 JB> episode or two in the fourth season.

It isn't that I particularly liked her - I just liked the idea of
a strong female interest in the story.

I like Amanda and I do hope they don't kill her off the way most
of Duncan's friends have been done away with... I would like to
see some of the 'good' Immortals hang around even if they are not
directly in the show.  I liked Darius and thought he was a very
interesting variation.  I also liked Hugh FitzCairn and I enjoyed
him showing up in more than one episode.  Maybe Methos and Amanda
will hang around.

 JB> BTW, the premiere of the 4th season is being directed by Adrian
 JB> Paul, and will feature several scenes which were filmed in Scotland.

That will be interesting... does this season end on a cliffhanger
or do we find out the outcome of the fight?  I know, Saturday
I'll see for myself <g>.



... "Never over-extend your thrust..." -- Ramirez
--- RA/FD/FMail.98
 * Origin: The Electric Fox - Memphis,Tn. (901)327-1008 (1:123/10)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 239 of 384
 From : ROBERT LIDGREN                      1:134/10        .pä 31 .àé 95 22:35
 To   : STEVEN WESEN
 Subj : EARTH 2/SO LONG
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
-> Not me this series is not what the fans I knew wanted and the Writing was
-> not seasoned enough to draw in watchers.
-> I thought it might be good when I first saw the Pilot but it look more like
-> a Paranoid Lost in Space and Yates was the Robot "warning , warning this
-> show lacks"

I sympathize with your feelings.  I felt that way too, at times.  I guess I
just WISH the whole enterprise would have packed a more powerful PUNCH.  And,
I'm sure the people working on the series worked their hearts out trying to
make it a success.  Oh well, it wasn't a waste of time and it does teach us
lessons.  I just hope that non-Star Trek universe series can thrive.  We need
all the variety possible.

Cheers,
Robert Lidgren
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Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 240 of 384
 From : ROBERT LIDGREN                      1:134/10        .pä 31 .àé 95 22:41
 To   : STEVEN WESEN
 Subj : EARTH 2/SO LONG
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
-> When Fans accept formula plot and writing subtext then you see the results.
-> Potential will never be reached because that would envolve and effort to
-> create and not follow formula.Here Lies Earth 2 a victem of its own
-> shortsidness.

You are right but not totally.  I'm sure plenty of fans would also look forward
to soemthing really new, innovative and challnging in a science fiction series.
 I am old enough to remember watching The Outer Limits and Rod Serling's The
Twilight Zone and even "One Step Beyond" when I was a kid.  MANY of those
stories were a challenge and were breaking new ground.

People who read science fiction stories and novels have been able to get far,
far beyond ray-guns in outer space.  I think many would support damn good
writing and production values in the 1990's too.

Now, do you think any networks will be willing to take more chances?
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Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 241 of 384
 From : ROBERT LIDGREN                      1:134/10        .pä 31 .àé 95 22:46
 To   : DEBRA MILNER
 Subj : EARTH 2/SO LONG
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
-> the majority of the supplies.....couple that with the fact that a good
-> portion of the group, who had their own pecking order and owed no loyalty to
-> the colony "leader", had no intentions of ever staying on the surface of the
-> planet, and I should think that leadership WOULD be ambiguous until things
-> could settle out.....

-> Many just didn't give the series a chance.  The plotline developed into one
-> that I think was becoming fairly strong and complex....by the time many came
-> back to see a second or third episode, they were lost, not having followed
-> the various threads from the beginning.

Your thoughts show great understanding.  All that you say is plausible.  One of
the reasons this conference or "echo" keeps my interest is because people like
you hang around here and say things that make me think and, often, reassess my
perceptions.

The fact that an Earth 2 "Post Mortem" should generate quite a bit of input
makes me think that it wasn't a total botched job and despite the critics I
believe it was fixable.

I'm always keen to read what you have to say.  By the way where do you live?
I am typing from Calgary, Alberta Canada (yeh, that place due north of
Montana).
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Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 242 of 384
 From : ROBERT LIDGREN                      1:134/10        .pä 31 .àé 95 22:48
 To   : STEVEN WESEN
 Subj : SLIDERS KILLED TOO!!
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
-> Where did you get your information?
-> I Know that Sliders was a mid season replacement for Party of Five but it
-> did better than in in ratings .

My source was an article in The Globe and Mail, a newspaper published out of
Toronto.
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Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 243 of 384
 From : ROBERT LIDGREN                      1:134/10        .pä 31 .àé 95 22:50
 To   : SEAN MCCORMICK
 Subj : SLIDERS KILLED TOO!!
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
-> I think the cancelation of Earth 2 and Sliders was a real STUPID
-> mistake.Earth 2 was one of my favorites,still deciding about Sliders,I
-> mainly liked the idea of inter-dimensional travel.
->       Sean McCormick

Hi Sean!  Yes, this was an unwelcome event.  I agree with you that
demise of Sliders was a BIGGER shock.  That show was a delight and I hope the
idea of a mid-season replacemnt isn't beyond the realm of possibility.  Let's
keep our fingers crossed!
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 Msg  : 244 of 384
 From : ROBERT LIDGREN                      1:134/10        .pä 31 .àé 95 22:53
 To   : FRANK EVA
 Subj : SLIDERS KILLED TOO!!
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
-> RL>Is there any GOOD NEWS out there???
->
-> Yes... VR5 was also cancelled! :-)

Frank!  You just made me spill my coffee-I was laughing so hard.  Good one!
A sense of humour is a terrific anodyne and that's especially needed these
days.

We need to remember these are just TV shows!  A bike ride with my nine-year-old
will always be a much bigger deal for me.

Cheers,
Robert Lidgren
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Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 245 of 384
 From : ROBERT LIDGREN                      1:134/10        .pä 31 .àé 95 22:56
 To   : MORTEN M.NSSON
 Subj : MY FRIEND MAX
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
-> Amazing! I never knew, that there were another version. Was it anygood or
-> did it become to "camp"? Since the British version never was released on
-> cassettes, do you know if the US version is available on cassettes.

Gee, I'm not sure if it is or not.  I do know I RENTED a videocassette of the
first two hours of the Britsih series a few years ago.  The title:  simply "Max
Headroom."

Frewer?  Yes, I rember that now.  He has been in a few televsion shows since
then but I would imagine Max was the character which keeps him in our minds.
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 Msg  : 246 of 384
 From : ROBERT LIDGREN                      1:134/10        .pä 31 .àé 95 22:58
 To   : ALL
 Subj : ROSWELL INFO?
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
I think HBO or one of the other U.S. cable networks broadcast "Roswell" about
the UFO crash in New Mexico in 1947.  I haven't seen it yet.  Can you let me
know what you thought of it?

Cheers,

Robert Lidgren
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Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 247 of 384
 From : ROBERT LIDGREN                      1:134/10        .pä 31 .àé 95 23:02
 To   : MORTEN M.NSSON
 Subj : X-FILES EPISODE LIST
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
I think you are referring to the episode guide I posted.  I'd be happy to send
it along.  Would you mind giving me your e-mail address or refresh me on
netmail.  So far I've only used my local provider to read SFFAN and reply to
messages as well as sending things off to Internet addresses.

Cheers,
Robert Lidgren
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Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 248 of 384
 From : ROBERT LIDGREN                      1:134/10        .pä 31 .àé 95 23:04
 To   : FRANK EVA
 Subj : X-Files Stuff
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Frank, did you get the X-Files espisode guides and other X-Files things I
posted?
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Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 249 of 384
 From : John Harrington                     1:326/406       .åò 01 .þí 95 00:38
 To   : Karmin St.jean
 Subj : MAX VIDITAPES
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
KS> Hi, Doc!
KS> Don't know if you mean *me* but I've got some Max Headroom (8 Eps.)

        Cool! Could you send me your E-mail adress, I'm at

        john.harrington@acornbbs.com

        I can send you tapes, and money for shipping and all.

        -The Doc-


 -- SPEED 1.40 [NR]:

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Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 250 of 384
 From : John Harrington                     1:326/406       .åò 01 .þí 95 00:38
 To   : Tony Trujillo
 Subj : SLIDERS
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
TT> This is true. Speaking of SLIDERS, to be totally realistic
TT> they haven't really slid into a "high improbability" Earth
TT> as of yet....I mean something that REALLY changes earth
TT> history like....what if the Dinosaurs never became extinct?
TT> How would this affect man's development? How about an earth
TT> were evolution took a whole different path? Now that would
TT> make for an interesting episode! :^)

        Ah, but you forget the one all-powerful, quantum rule of
 Sliders: FX budget! <Grin>

        (Then again, since Jurasic Park, CDI tech has dropped
 considerably in price, and the spider/wasps were pretty cool! To
 bad Sliders is allmost all video toaster effects)

        -The Doc-

        "Imagine a world, where Jimmy Carter is god..."- yet another
                                                         rejected
                                                         "Sliders"
                                                         plot...

 -- SPEED 1.40 [NR]:

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Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 251 of 384
 From : John Harrington                     1:326/406       .åò 01 .þí 95 00:38
 To   : Tony Limbert
 Subj : SLIDERS SEASON FINALE
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
TL> Damn... and to think that I was beginning to LIKE Quinn.

        Uuuuuuuugh....

        Just let me say, that if that yuppie slime is supposed to take
 Quin's place, the casters are complete morons. No Quin, means no one
 to fix the silly slide box, and no slide box, means the danged series
 burns on for ever in simple, "we have to escape this world!" plots, lead
 by tight tips, the nearly euthanized yuppy.

        There, that's my anger, now for the plus side:

        Maybe that cliff hanger was just put in to scare us, so when Quin
 survives, we'll all be happy. (didn't work for Ross Perot) Next, maybe
 a soft wousey who comes from a peaceful, happy world, will be more fu-
 filling, when he actually has to stand up and save the group. (A bit
 a hatred and disrespect from Arturo and Rembrant would be cool at first,
 since Quin did sacrifice himself for, uh, what's his name, Sparky,
 the cianide boy) Next, the death of a character reminds us that bad things
 can ACTUALLY happen. (I they just could have done it at ANY other time than
 now, since we all know he left over money, not plot)
        Then, comes the Ranger theory: I was stuck babysitting a hyper 10
 year old, who loved the PowerRangers, and made me watch the thing every
 day of the two weeks I was there. As anyone who has seen the show knows,
 the plots just loop, repeating the monster arrrives-monster fights-monster
 loses scenario over and over, and all I could think, was wouldn't it be
 cool if say, a Ranger got killed, maybe three of them while we're at it,
 and the last two are all demoralized, and have to fight desperately, alone.
 That would be so scarry, since we all know that the silly plots just loop,
 with no change.
        Apply this to Sliders, and it would be cool, even with just a few
 left, who don't believe they'll ever get home, and who have to find something
 new, a new goal, to keep from manic depression.
        Okay, it might still suk, but at least it would keep the show fresh.
 Doomed struggle is part of what's kept the X-files going so long.
        last line: the only thing that would ruin the "half are dead" kind
 of theme, is if they teamed up two who get along great, like Sparky and
 Wade. For this idea, Sparky and Rembrant would be more appropriate, since
 they have no chemistry, and would surprise us with any team work.
        Anyway, the show needs work to keep us all watching, and I wish they
 didn't have to "kill off" Quin, that kind of merciles slaughter is what
 made Alien3 such a bomb.
        Thanks for reading this enormous post':)

        -The Doc-


        "Oh no! Wade's dog peed' on the slide-box!"


 -- SPEED 1.40 [NR]:

--- FLAME v1.1
 * Origin: *AcornBBS*Freeport,ME*USA*207-865-3004* (1:326/406)

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 Msg  : 252 of 384
 From : John Harrington                     1:326/406       .åò 01 .þí 95 00:38
 To   : Tony Trujillo
 Subj : SLIDERS CONTINUITY
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
TT> Not always...some shows just disappear off the face of the
TT> earth without the benefit of a "goodbye" show.

        Some get a season finale, that never get picked up later, like
 "Alien nation", which set up the big threat of disease among the newcomers,
 and then, thphphphph, gone. They didn't resolve that thread till five
 years later, when Fox inexplicably made a two hour episode, that finished
 the plot off. It had taken so long, I forgot about the finale all together,
 until the Sci-Fi channel aired the "they pulled the plug!" marathon.

        -The Doc-


 -- SPEED 1.40 [NR]:

--- FLAME v1.1
 * Origin: *AcornBBS*Freeport,ME*USA*207-865-3004* (1:326/406)

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 Msg  : 253 of 384
 From : Tony Trujillo                       1:280/9         .åò 01 .þí 95 03:15
 To   : Frank Eva
 Subj : Re: SeaQuest Survives
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE 1.11+

>> Lucas...

FE>> He's become just another Wesley Crusher, always saving the day...
FE>> TT> "I guess that's what the "kids" want...

 FE> Yeah, and isn't it sad when demographics rules what we see on TV? I was
 FE> perfectly happy with the first season, but when the new producer decided
 FE> to target a different audience, he lost me...

I think he might have lost a good majority of people who
made it possible for SEAQUEST to continue. I'm no sure who's
watching SEAQUEST right now but I do know that nobody that I
know (who loved the first season of the show) watches the
show anymore.


... "Oh bother!" said Pooh, as his "lock-on" indicator wailed
--- Via Silver Xpress V4.02B03 SW01177
 * Origin: South of the River - Overland Park KS - (913)642-7907 V.* (1:280/9)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 254 of 384
 From : Nicolai Shapero                     1:102/524       .åò 01 .þí 95 04:29
 To   : Frank Eva
 Subj : Harlan Ellison
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <May 30 07:22>, Frank Eva (1:154/750) wrote to Todd Sullivan:

 FE>He is supposed to be working on a B5 adaptation of "The Glass
 FE>Hand"
 FE>(which, BTW, I've never read). From the length of time is seems
 FE>to be
 FE>taking to bring this episode to the screen, it would seem that
 FE>he's back
 FE>to his old tricks (aka "City on the Edge of Forever")...

He was, in theory, working on a sequel to the Outer Limits episode, "DEMON WITH
A GLASS HAND" entitled "DEMON ON THE RUN" for B5.  But I haven't heard anything
about this lately (no news is good news?)

-- Nicolai Shapero, the Mad Russian Sysop of StormGate Aerie

--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 255 of 384
 From : Jeff Kovach                         1:114/318       .åò 01 .þí 95 15:50
 To   : Demian Katz
 Subj : Re: X-FILES konference??
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On 31 May 95  18:35:17 Demian Katz wrote...

DK> > Can anybody please confirm, or the opposite ;-(, the rumour about,
DK> > there being a seperate X-Files konference called - plainly: X-FILES
DK> > ??
DK>   There is one, but to my knowledge it isn't backboned, and is thus
DK> only available in a limited area.

To which Jeff Kovach replies...

Incorrect - it is backboned.

--- RATSoft/FIDO v1.12 [JetMail 0.99beta9]
 * Origin: STAR*LINX BBS - Mesa, AZ - (602)464-4817 (1:114/318)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 256 of 384
 From : J Hulley-Miller                     1:107/330       .pä 31 .àé 95 15:39
 To   : Patrick Long
 Subj : FUBS
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Felicitations Patrick!

Monday May 29 1995 20:12, Patrick Long wrote to J Hulley-miller:

>PL> Salutations!

<bows>

JH-=>> Is the FUB Squad still active ? tnx.
>PL> We're still active over in Science Fiction...

There was a move ? Or did I have the wrong conference completely ?

jhm@cnj.digex.net

... How do you spell relief? OS/2!
--- GoldED/2 2.50.A0517+ [1068US3]
 * Origin: * Informatix/2 * (1:107/330)

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 Msg  : 257 of 384
 From : J Hulley-Miller                     1:107/330       .pä 31 .àé 95 15:44
 To   : Morten M.nsson
 Subj : FUBS
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Greetings Morten!

Tuesday May 30 1995 00:21, Morten MÆnsson wrote to All:

JH>> Is the FUB Squad still active ? tnx.
>MM>  Sounds interesting!
>MM>  Can I have some info, please?

The acronym is 'Fidonet Used Book Squad'. Its a group of people that keep an eye
out for books. So if there are books that are very difficult/impossible for you
to find. They keep an eye out for them. If found, you pay the cost + shipping
and get the book :)


jhm@cnj.digex.net

... Windows NT: Vapourware of the desperate and scared.
--- GoldED/2 2.50.A0517+ [1068US3]
 * Origin: * Informatix/2 * (1:107/330)

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 Msg  : 258 of 384
 From : Jeff Schlenker                      1:288/19        .òp 30 .àé 95 23:47
 To   : Chip Garner
 Subj : Re: Star Trek
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

-=> Chip Garner was overheard speaking to All <=-

 CG> Any Star Trek Voyager Fans out there?  I think Nelix sucks at acting.
 CG> Tuvok kicks butt as a Vulcan though!!!

 CG> Tell me what YOU think...

Hmmm, I thought the actor playing Neelix was very good.  And as far as
NewSpock, I mean Tuvok, is concerned.  Well he's just that, another
Spock.  Thus far, anyway.  I expect Tim Russ to make the part more
distinctive as the series progresses.

Jeff


*===============================================================*
*  Jeffrey A. Schlenker                >>>Internet<<<           *
*  Hazel, South Dakota           jeff.schlenker@lake-city.com   *
*===============================================================*

... Thinking quickly, Spock opens a can of peas with his ears
___ TagDude 0.87 [Unregistered]
---
--- < Sig-It > v3.00 by Brandon S. Bell

--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12
 * Origin: LakeCity BBS * V34/4 Gigs Watertown SD 605 886-0849 (1:288/19)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 259 of 384
 From : Jeff Schlenker                      1:288/19        .òp 30 .àé 95 23:51
 To   : Sean McCormick
 Subj : Re: White Dwarf
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

-=> Sean McCormick was overheard speaking to All <=-

 SM> It's been almost a week since the White Dwarf showing,and I haven't
 SM> seen a single message about it.I liked the show myself.The tissue
 SM> gloves were most amazing.

Well, I must admit that I just couldn't get into it.  After about 45
minutes, I shut the tape off.  I don't know, maybe I missed something,
but to me it was generally boring.

Jeff


*===============================================================*
*  Jeffrey A. Schlenker                >>>Internet<<<           *
*  Hazel, South Dakota           jeff.schlenker@lake-city.com   *
*===============================================================*

... Yoda of Borg am I.  Assimilated will you be!
___ TagDude 0.87 [Unregistered]
---
--- < Sig-It > v3.00 by Brandon S. Bell

--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12
 * Origin: LakeCity BBS * V34/4 Gigs Watertown SD 605 886-0849 (1:288/19)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 260 of 384
 From : Evan Malik                          1:209/224       .pä 31 .àé 95 14:05
 To   : ROBERT LIDGREN
 Subj : Re: EARTH 2/SO LONG
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: FastEcho 1.40 7171

 -=> Quoting ROBERT LIDGREN to EVAN MALIK <=-

 RL> Hey, Earth 2 was cancelled and now Sliders has been too!  Go figure.
 RL> Just what do the networks want-nothing but SITCOMS???!!!  I mean
 RL> sitcoms are safe and non-threatening entertainemnt fare but damn good
 RL> dramas should be given a chance too.  The ARE more RISKY.  They do
 RL> require a greater intellectual involvement but, in the end, I think we
 RL> walk away more enriched.  Just one man's opinion but Earth 2 and
 RL> Sliders should have been retained at least for a second season.

Hi there Robert,

Well it seems as if you are right.  Give us a unique series where the viewer
has to think, or even worse, pay attention, and the networks are more than
likely to kill it.  Once these bean counters who sit behind thier desks
relize that shows like these are the exact audience (i.e. thier advertisers
most likely clients) they are looking for I'm afraid that good quality
science television-that lasts more than a season-will be few and far between.

As I see it there is simply no way to accuralty determine the audience with the
stupid way ratings are taken now.  The only way to accuratly determine viewer
ship is to hook a box to EVERYONES TV and see who is really watching what.  I
remember reading that a few months after NBC cancelled Star Trek for the last
time, the ratings were redone and -surprise- it showed Star Trek was the #1
rated show for the demographics NBC was after.  Who's to say the current system
is any more accurate?  Have you ever seen an election where poll after poll
shows somebody winning by a large margin, only to have the underdog win it?
TV ratings are a crapshoot just like that.  Anybody know where I can write
the neilson company so I can be surveyed?  :)

              Evan



... Coming to Las Vegas in 1996-Star Trek:The Experience!!!
--- Fastecho 1.40+
 * Origin: S P E L L B O U N D ! ---Las Vegas--- (702)254-9672 (1:209/224)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 261 of 384
 From : Barry Blaes                         1:107/960       .pä 31 .àé 95 15:39
 To   : Andrew Clarke
 Subj : Not SLIDERS
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: FastEcho 1.41/g 8167
On 27 May 95 08:35pm, Andrew Clarke wrote to Barry Blaes:

 AC> How would I go about doing that if I'm not on any services like AOL or
 AC> Compuserve and don't have an Internet address?

Hows about writing to the network...?

End Barry's log, StarDate 9772.76. InterNet: Btblaes@ix.netcom.com.

... Bother, said Pooh as he received his Compuserve bill.
 * Tag-X Pro v1.10 *
--- Fastecho 1.41
 * Origin: The Bears Den. (1:107/960)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 262 of 384
 From : Tony Trujillo                       1:280/9         .åò 01 .þí 95 23:25
 To   : Kay Shapero
 Subj : Re: Sliders Continuity
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE 1.11+

 TT>>replacement OR by another network. I'm not counting SLIDERS
 TT>>out yet but I'm crossing my fingers that it will slide back
 TT>>onto television in the future.
 KS> They'll have to do it pretty quickly, or the cast will have
 KS> scattered to the winds (I really doubt John Rhys-Davies
 KS> will be available for long...)

He's really the only actor the show can't really
afford to lose. My enjoyment of the series would be greatly
diminished if JRD is out of the series.

 KS> Of course if they do I do have one little suggestion...
 KS> ...lose the dog

I rolled my eyes when the dog leaped into the "bridge"
portal. I wouldn't have even considered taking the dog with
me when his barking gave away Wade's position behind the
curtain to the members of the LottoPolice.


... Ok Space Cadets! Prepare to hurtle through the cosmos!
--- Via Silver Xpress V4.02B03 SW01177
 * Origin: South of the River - Overland Park KS - (913)642-7907 V.* (1:280/9)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 263 of 384
 From : Tony Trujillo                       1:280/9         .ÿò 02 .þí 95 01:51
 To   : John Harrington
 Subj : Re: SLIDERS CONTINUITY
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE 1.11+

 JH>  Some get a season finale, that never get picked up later, like
 JH>  "Alien nation", which set up the big threat of disease among the
 JH>  newcomers, and then, thphphphph, gone. They didn't resolve that thread
 JH>  till five years later, when Fox inexplicably made a two hour episode,
 JH>  that finished the plot off.

I'm glad they finally decided to give that show another
chance at life...even as a occasional two hour movie. I
really loved the show and was really upset when they did
decide to cancel the show with a major cliffhanger like
that. All of the actors looked pretty close to what they
looked like when the series ended except for the young
actress who played Emily.


... Is HELL is a infinite stack of XANTH novels?! :^)
--- Via Silver Xpress V4.02B03 SW01177
 * Origin: South of the River - Overland Park KS - (913)642-7907 V.* (1:280/9)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 264 of 384
 From : VINCENT MCCONNELL                   1:2601/574      .îí 22 .àé 95 23:27
 To   : SEAN MCCORMICK
 Subj : Re: White Dwarf
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
|Sean|, of sept |Mccormick'ashain|, spoke thusly::

 SM>
 SM> It's been almost a week since the White Dwarf showing,and I haven't
 SM> seen a single message about it.I liked the show myself.The tissue
 SM> gloves were most amazing.
 SM> Sean McCormick

WHITE DWARF was convoluted, hard to follow, drab, dull, interesting only
in a few respects, with a creative facade slapped on a generic plot.

I found myself staring at the ceiling in the middle of major plot points,
for no reason other than entertainment.




... DMs love a hero; DMs also love a good joke.  Think about it.
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

--- GOMail v2.0v6 Beta [94-0191]
 * Origin: Image Gallery, 28.8, Internet, Adult and more! (1:2601/574)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 265 of 384
 From : Un Young Park                       1:153/859       .åò 25 .àé 95 04:56
 To   : James Walton
 Subj : Re: Purpose of ST-DSN & ST-V
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Overquoting a message from James Walton to Denis Lamy...

JW> Think about it.  "These are the voyages of the Starship
JW> Enterprise..."
JW> A spacestation doesn't voyage, it sits and waits for something to
JW> happen.  And the spacestation wasn't even built by/for the
JW> Federation!
JW>

     Well they can still have Avery Brooks voicing over something to the extent
of "...as we stand guard at the gateway to the gamma quad..."  But I would think
that kind of gimmicky voice over would just be that a gimmick...

JW> As far as Voyager goes, I have never seen it, but since the show
JW> isn't about a planned trip, not too much can be said.
JW>

     And the same could be said for Voyager "...as we continue our journey
home..."  And once again it would sound like they were just trying to cash in on
the success of ST:TOS and ST:TNG...


---
 * Origin: Gallows Howe BBS (1:153/859)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 266 of 384
 From : Mark Jones                          1:105/302.47    .òp 30 .àé 95 21:37
 To   : Earl Green
 Subj : SLIDERS SEASON FINALE
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On (28 May 95) Earl Green wrote to Frank Eva...

 EG> You do have to admit, though, Rhys-Davies was a BIG part of that
 EG> show's appeal. I most emphatically did NOT like Quinn or Wade
 EG> when the show started up; I got to where I liked Wade two or
 EG> three episodes in, and I was finally starting to like Quinn just
 EG> as they offed him. But Arturo and Rembrandt had me hooked - if
 EG> not for them, I wouldn't have stuck around for the first hourly
 EG> episode. <G>

Really?  I wanted nothing from that show so much as to see Rembrandt
die an exquisitely painful and prolonged death.  (When he was being
taken to the "Municipal Processing Center" in the last episode for
execution, I was *cheering* the cops.)


... "A democracy in which votes are not secured by arms is a farce." H. B. Piper

--- PPoint 1.78
 * Origin: HQ of World Domination, Inc. (1:105/302.47)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 267 of 384
 From : Mark Jones                          1:105/302.47    .òp 30 .àé 95 21:42
 To   : Starwolf
 Subj : B5 Baseball
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On (27 May 95) Starwolf wrote to Chris Carter...

 S > I wondered about that.  In the opening film, you've got the captain
 S > commenting to Deleen that it was real tricky, what with the huge space
 S > needed for life support and other essential functions, to have this
 S > teeny, tiny space set aside for a Zen garden.
 S >
 S > But they had the room to spare for a baseball diamond???
 S >
 S > Must have been written by a baseball fan.

Not necessarily--but the station *designers* may have been baseball
fans.  EarthForce seems to be strongly influenced by (if not descended
from) the American government and culture.  Americans, as a whole, are
bigger fans of baseball than of zen.  So when they had X cubic meters
of space left over after building all the essential bits, they had a
choice to make:  devote most of it to a baseball diamond, or a zen
garden?

The choice was obvious....


... God, please grant me more patience...RIGHT NOW!

--- PPoint 1.78
 * Origin: HQ of World Domination, Inc. (1:105/302.47)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 268 of 384
 From : Mark Jones                          1:105/302.47    .òp 30 .àé 95 21:46
 To   : Pamela Crossett
 Subj : Highlander
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On (27 May 95) Pamela Crossett wrote to Jack Butler...

 PC>  JB> Also, there are supposedly "big changes" in store for the show.
 PC>
 PC> Come on - give me a hint.
 PC> Actually, give me more than a hint. I want all the details. I
 PC> want it all. Can you arrange that?

It looks to *me* like the "big changes" will consist of someone
letting the immortal cat out of the watchers' bag.

Even if 99% of the public reads about head-hunting immortals amongst
us and then laughs and says, "Yeah--right," that last one percent
could be a real problem.  Consider Duncan MacLeod, for instance.

He's in the Watcher database for Europe, complete with bio and
picture.  Presumably many (if not all) of his battles are on file,
including who he capped and when and where.

If the French government were to begin checking out reports of
headless bodies found around France and comparing them to Duncan's
file...well, they'd find a very hard-to-shrug-off correlation.  He
might have some explaining to do.


... If you're done speaking freely, please step into the oven....

--- PPoint 1.78
 * Origin: HQ of World Domination, Inc. (1:105/302.47)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 269 of 384
 From : Mark Jones                          1:105/302.47    .òp 30 .àé 95 21:52
 To   : Brian Henderson
 Subj : Old Vs New
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On (20 May 95) Brian Henderson wrote to Frank Eva...

 BH> But I *LIKE* stupid movies as well as the old 30s serials. In
 BH> fact, I have dozens of them on tape... Buck Rogers, Flash Gordon,
 BH> Radar Men on the Moon, etc. It's an acquired taste, certainly,
 BH> but one worth cultivating IMO.

I certainly agree.

"Do you, Ming the Merciless, take this woman to be your empress of the
hour?"

"Of the hour?  Yes."

"Do you promise to use her as you will?"

"Certainly!"

"Not to blast her into space?" (Ming glares) "Uh...until such time as
you grow weary of her?"

"I do...."



... "...with the blood of patriots AND TYRANTS."  T. Jefferson

--- PPoint 1.78
 * Origin: HQ of World Domination, Inc. (1:105/302.47)

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 Msg  : 270 of 384
 From : Starwolf                            1:163/214       .pä 31 .àé 95 22:03
 To   : Tony Trujillo
 Subj : Re: Sliders Continuity
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

TT>Glad to see that they decided to give SLIDERS a chance as a
TT>regular series on their line up. I haven't been too excited

Last day or so has seen newspapers reporting that the series had been
shot down by FOX.  I do wish the REAL story would come out, once and for
all.


 * SLMR 2.1a * "I'm NOT making this up, you know!" - Anna Russell

--- Maximus 2.01wb
 * Origin: Land of Ill Repute (1:163/214)

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 Msg  : 271 of 384
 From : David Johnston                      1:342/14        .åò 01 .þí 95 01:01
 To   : Chip Garner
 Subj : Star Trek
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
-> Any Star Trek Voyager Fans out there?  I think Nelix sucks at acting.
-> Tuvok kicks butt as a Vulcan though!!!

I think you are confusing being a good actor with being a good
character.  Neelix is a weaselly loser and I think that the actor is
portraying a weaselly loser very believably.  Now think about this: do
you dislike Neelix because the actor's demeanor and deliver aren't right
for his lines?  (Which would be bad acting).  Or do you just dislike him
for being a repellent character?

--- PCBoard (R) v15.21/100
 * Origin: Freddy's Place - Edm. AB - 28.8K (403) 456-4241 (1:342/14)

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 Msg  : 272 of 384
 From : Pamela Crossett                     1:325/118       .åò 01 .þí 95 04:10
 To   : Gloria Darcy
 Subj : Highlander, The Series
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 GD> Where do you live?

I live in Burlington, Vermont.

Where are you? I don't truly understand fido's numbering system (and more
than likely will never remember much more than that 1 means USA and
anything over 1 is out of the country).

 GD> a lot of people on this echo said it was just AWFUL!

Yes, I read these posts.

I personally found something to enjoy in all three (even 11, which I'll
admit was a tad weird, but I love the character Sean Connery plays, so it
was pretty cool to have him back, even in that incredibly fantisized
story.

And it was almost campy.

 GD> Also, I have become a BIG Adrian Paul fan and it's hard for me to see

 GD> someone else play Duncan McLeod.

As I said in my previous post (and I'm sorry if I didn't say it clearly)
Thank God the role in the movies ISN'T Duncan, but CONNOR McLeod.

And Christopher Lambert has some interesting qualities of his own, if you
can forget Adrian Paul for an hour and half or so. His voice is very
melodious and has a cool accent all it's own.

In terms of scenery, 111 is very similar to 1 in that it has some
excellent shots of Scotland's craggy coast. Since that is an area I just
love looking at, that alone made the movie worth going to. Admittedly it
isn't quite as spectacular on a small t.v. screen, but still nice shots.

111 also follows the story line set down in 1 (completely ignoring 11's
weird additions), and unfortunately sort of dismisses the series as a
possibility (but hey, it's a movie. so it's fantasy. it can stand on it's
own!) - but my advice is just ignore the implications there, and enjoy it
as a thing-unto-itself. After all, episode one, "The Gathering" had both
Conner and Duncan in it.

Here's an excerpt from one of the versions of episode listings summerizing
that episode:

      Duncan Macleod is roused from his peaceful existence with
      the love of his life, Tessa Noel, when he is confronted by
      two fellow Immortals from his past. Connor MacLeod, (played
      by Christopher Lambert, reprising his role from the films)
      an old friend and fellow clansman, finds Duncan after many
      years and attempts to convince him to join the fray in the
      battle of Good versus Evil. Connor also has plans to finish
      off the likes of Slan Quince (Played by Richard Moll) an Evil
      Immortal who has tracked down Duncan with plans of combat.
      Realizing that he can be a threat, Duncan confronts Richie
      and later befriends the boy. The threats of Slan Quince come
      to an end on a bridge when Duncan saves the life of his comrade
      Connor and gains a powerful Quickening at the expense of Slan.

So unfortunately, movie 111 doesn't address the issues inherent in having
the movie reality match/correspond with the t.v. series (and for those of
us who love the series on television, that's quite annoying).

On the other hand, there is the question of what if two friendly immortals
are the only two left - and since "there can be only one" what would they
do? I mean, the movies seem to give the impression that immortals are
driven to be that one and only far more so than on television series.

I mean Duncan certainly seems to try to give everyone, even some of the
obviously "bad" ones a second chance before he "kills them off." Actually,
in the movie 111, Connor chooses NOT to kill his teacher, but other than
that, they seem to delight in whacking each other as quickly as possible.

Even in movie one, I seem to recall Connery telling Lambert they would
eventually have to face each other (even as he was teaching him the
ropes).

But movie 111 is worth it for the special effects alone. And the MAGIC!
With the cool Japanese master.

It also had a real cool sword move where one person is without a sword and
is lunged at by their opponent and they manage to turn and take the sword
and win. Very cool! and it's repeated at least twice. (the nice thing
about VCR's is you can slow it down and really catch things).

 GD> Maybe a woman's opinion is what I need to hear before I go rent it.

So rent it, and enjoy! I did!

seeYA

Pam

___
 This copy of Freddie 1.2.5 is being evaluated.

--- Maximus/2 2.02
 * Origin: The Ozone Layer, Williston, VT. (802) 862-5058 (1:325/118)

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 Msg  : 273 of 384
 From : Pamela Crossett                     1:325/118       .åò 01 .þí 95 04:46
 To   : Gloria Darcy
 Subj : Re: Earth 2 & HIGHLANDER
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

   > Well, at least I wasn't the only

one that felt that way!

I know this is true. You just seemed to be one of the most vocal. From what Jack
wrote, a lot of people objected. He said (I believe) that the producers "caved"
under pressure - so there had to be more than just one person complaining.

Did you ever write into the show letting them know your feelings?

That's something I always mean to get around to, but never do.

I am looking forward to the season finale's second part tonight. Although I bet
we're left hanging somehow. (here's a nother reason to hate Dallas - "who shot
JR" really made everyone step up the series cliff-hangers.

seeYA

Pam

--- Maximus/2 2.02
 * Origin: The Ozone Layer, Williston, VT. (802) 862-5058 (1:325/118)

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 Msg  : 274 of 384
 From : Pamela Crossett                     1:325/118       .åò 01 .þí 95 04:52
 To   : Gloria Darcy
 Subj : Highlander, The Movie (3)
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
thank god Connor McLeod is the lead, and not Duncan - that's something that
confused me at first. I just assumed they got another actor for the series (and
was I glad, I like Adrian Paul much better than Christopher Lambert) although I
do have to admit he (Lambert) grows on me.

So if you can get over the longing for Adrian Paul, and take the movie on it's
own terms (which in III do NOT tie into the series "real world" at all) it's
quite an interesting movie.

A lot of special effects, and an interesting storyline that really emphasizes an
immortal's gaining another's powers once they kill them.

I'll write you more, cause I'm out of on-line time.

Pam

--- Maximus/2 2.02
 * Origin: The Ozone Layer, Williston, VT. (802) 862-5058 (1:325/118)

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 Msg  : 275 of 384
 From : Frank Eva                           1:154/750       .åò 01 .þí 95 07:44
 To   : Mark Jones
 Subj : Torres in Faces
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: FastEcho 1.42.bA 8060

MJ>The story about B'Lanna being split into her Klingon and Human halves
MJ>is the sort of "technobabble" I can accept.  The notion of splitting
MJ>her into two separate beings is as unlikely as everything else
MJ>they've done--but I was willing to grant the premise in order to see
MJ>how the character dealt with the problem.

Except that it had already been done before in ST:TOS' The Enemy Within.
To me, that is unacceptable...

MJ> FE> Doc Zimmerman is not as obnoxious as Wesley Crusher, but he's
MJ> FE> being used basically the same way. Save another crew member?
MJ> FE> Just ask Doc Zimmerman to go well beyond his normal programming,
MJ> FE> and he'll save the day every time!

MJ>Now, if we could only get him to doctor the SCRIPTS....

Yep, they need a miracle! :-)

---
 * Origin: *YOPS ]I[* 3.1 GIG * RA/FD/FE RADist * Milwaukee, WI (1:154/750)

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 Msg  : 276 of 384
 From : Frank Eva                           1:154/750       .åò 01 .þí 95 07:44
 To   : Michelle Willey
 Subj : VOYAGER NOSE DIVING?
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: FastEcho 1.42.bA 8060

MW>I agree Neelix seems to be the Barclay too often. The doc on the
MW>other hand has a slightly cynical edge that I like. I find it ironic
MW>that the only character with any depth is the simulated person.

Agreed!

MW>the same thing happened in NextGen. Data was more human than the
MW>humans and the humans all began to seem artificial. Even on those
MW>rare occasions when a character gets angry it does not seem very

I never thought of ST:TNG this way, but you're right!

MW>real. Pooh on demographics. Just because we don't buy the action
MW>figures no one wants to make science fiction for grown ups.

Well, let's hope B5 finishes its 5 year story arc. Of all the sci-fi
that hasn't been axed this season, it is the most adult...

---
 * Origin: *YOPS ]I[* 3.1 GIG * RA/FD/FE RADist * Milwaukee, WI (1:154/750)

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 Msg  : 277 of 384
 From : Frank Eva                           1:154/750       .åò 01 .þí 95 07:44
 To   : Robert Lidgren
 Subj : X-FILES LIST WANTED
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: FastEcho 1.42.bA 8060

FE>-> At the end of last season, someone uploaded a complete episode
FE>-> list WITH descriptions of each episode...

RL>I can easily get it and post same but doesn't everyone here have
RL>access to the World Wide Web too?  All I do is use the web browser
RL>and type in the X-Files as
RL>a subject to search.  The results are episode guides, biographies,
RL>FAQs, images, sound files etc., etc.

I have only limited access to WWW through America Online, at this time.
And I really don't want to go searching for what I need. I was hoping
someone on this echo might already have this. There was a list of titles
uploaded the other day, but no descriptions, and without those
descriptions, it'll be very difficult to identify individual episodes.

---
 * Origin: *YOPS ]I[* 3.1 GIG * RA/FD/FE RADist * Milwaukee, WI (1:154/750)

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 Msg  : 278 of 384
 From : Chris Carter                        1:105/302.23    .åò 01 .þí 95 08:20
 To   : Frank Eva
 Subj : Confessions & Lamentation
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 FE> Her "change" has made her far less intriguing, and I'm still
 FE> unconvinced that Mira Furlan didn't have something to do with
 FE> this divergence of the storyline.

She did.  She was getting very tired of the heavy-duty prosthetics,
and wanted to go through less time in the makeup chair.  She also
didn't want her hair hidden underneath a bone-crest.  Hence, the
change.

The Chrysalis was a pre-planned part of the arc, it was the
implementation that got changed, partly at Mira's request.

 FE> I'm not crazy about the entire concept of a "psi-corps". To
 FE> me, it doesn't seem based on science but rather on whimsy. I
 FE> like the character of Talia Winters, and would like it much
 FE> better if she were more gainfully employed, as perhaps an EA
 FE> officer (like Ivanova). I felt the same way about the empathic
 FE> Counselor Troi.

I don't get this Frank.  You just contradicted yourself.  Troi *is*
a Starfleet officer.  Yet you feel the same way about her as Talia?
And you would prefer it if Talia were an EA officer?  That paragraph
doesn't add up.

Chris - carter@teleport.com


--- cPoint v2.17/FreeWare
 * Origin: Carter's Conspicuous Consumption (1:105/302.23)

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 Msg  : 279 of 384
 From : Todd Sullivan                       1:363/60        .åò 01 .þí 95 09:18
 To   : Frank Eva
 Subj : B5 COMIC
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: FastEcho 1.41/g 10118

FE >I would think something like this would be more important to
FE >the
FE >writers, but regardless, that is the gist of what they said
FE >in the
FE >"letters" column. I personally will not be buying another
FE >issue, anyway.
FE >Like the B5 novels, the stories don't progress along with
FE >the B5 story
FE >arc. So, for me they're just a waste of money, and not even
FE >very
FE >interesting sci-fi (too much cloak & dagger/murder she
FE >wrote, for me).

To  paraphrase Heinlein's comments, "You have to be entertaining.
Art for art's ske pays no bills."
DC knows (or think they do) what B-5  i all about, and the fact the comic sells
means that they're notthat far off.
---
 * Origin: Fell From The Trap Door (407)382-2955 (1:363/60)

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 Msg  : 280 of 384
 From : Todd Sullivan                       1:363/60        .åò 01 .þí 95 09:24
 To   : Jeff Kovach
 Subj : Sliders Continuity
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: FastEcho 1.41/g 10118

JK >No - I don't mean syndicating the reruns.  I mean
JK >distributing new
JK >episodes of the show that way, like they do with Highlander
JK >and many
JK >other shows.  Independent of any one network.

That's more along the liness of "independent release" than syndication
Bt I'ut I'll admit that I don't know as much about the television
industry as others might claim they do about everything.
---
 * Origin: Fell From The Trap Door (407)382-2955 (1:363/60)

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 Msg  : 281 of 384
 From : John Kahane                         1:163/198.5     .åò 01 .þí 95 10:06
 To   : Gloria Darcy
 Subj : Earth 2/So Long
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Thursday May 25 1995>, Gloria Darcy wrote to Pamela Crossett:

 PC>> I just saw the episode "all about eve" - do you know if
 PC>> that was the final episode?

     Strangely enough, it wasn't.  The episode last week was a new one, but one
that was out of continuity order.  It explained how Alonzo came to terms with
his being "grounded" and how they acquired the geo-lock that caused all kinds of
problems in the hands of Morgan Martin.

 PC>> Also, was Riley played by a different actor in this episode
 PC>> than in the past ones?

     Nope, Riley or Reilly was played by the same actor who had portrayed him
before.  The character just added a moustache, and a bit more hair, that's all!
<g>

 GD>         And I wonder if Devin is really dead?

     Devon Adair isn't dead.  We know this for two reasons.  First, she is still
alive some sixteen years later.  Remember the episode where we meet the adult
Uly? :)  Secondly, she was placed in coldsleep while they hopefully figured out
what was killing her.  Given that she will suffer coldsleep sickness or whatever
it was called when she emerges, there will be all kinds of new problems facing
her and her friends at that time.

     John
.....
People who used magic without knowing what they were doing usually came to a
sticky end. All over the entire room, sometimes. (MP)

--- GoldED 2.41
 * Origin: The Point Away From Home (1:163/198.5)

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 Msg  : 282 of 384
 From : John Kahane                         1:163/198.5     .åò 01 .þí 95 10:11
 To   : Barry Blaes
 Subj : Not SLIDERS
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
In a message of <Thursday May 25 1995>, Barry Blaes scribed:

 JK>> Personally, I'm more concerned at this point with keeping
 JK>> BABYLON 5 on the air.  And getting to see the last four
 JK>> episodes of Season Two before October, whereas the
 JK>> Europeans are going to be seeing them any time now.

 BB> Din't see any thing on the internet for B5, but, then again
 BB> I'm not reading any B5 stuff.

     There are whole newsgroups and ftp sites that have information and the like
devoted to BABYLON 5, but I guess it depends on what you're looking for and all
that. :)  The Brits (and presumably the rest of Europe) are going to be seeing
the final four episodes of the second season in June/July; we're going to have
to wait until October for them. *sigh*

     John
.....
"You know, it's really lucky for me that I met you." - Cut-me-own-Throat Dibbler
(MP)

--- GoldED 2.41
 * Origin: The Point Away From Home (1:163/198.5)

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 Msg  : 283 of 384
 From : John Kahane                         1:163/198.5     .åò 01 .þí 95 10:15
 To   : Kay Shapero
 Subj : B5 Thought
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Friday May 26 1995>, Kay Shapero wrote to Tony Limbert:

 KS> Speaking of Pavarotti.. did you see the Babylon 5 episode
 KS> Knives a couple of weeks back?  That plot with Londo and his
 KS> old friend was straight out of Grand Opera...

     Yeah, wasn't that great, Kay? :)  "Knives" was pretty much a throwaway
episode of B5, but the sub-plot with Londo and the old friend was the only truly
redeeming aspect of the episode.  That and Sheridan's reaction to learning that
Keffer was taking jaunts into hyperspace to find his "bogey."

     John
.....
"Isn't life interesting when you see it from someone else's perspective?" -
Victor Tugelbend (MP)

--- GoldED 2.41
 * Origin: The Point Away From Home (1:163/198.5)

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 Msg  : 284 of 384
 From : John Kahane                         1:163/198.5     .åò 01 .þí 95 10:21
 To   : Frank Swarbrick
 Subj : Stuff of TP
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
In a message of <Friday May 26 1995>, Frank Swarbrick scribed:

 FS>> Halloween night last year.  I was *not* blown away, and
 FS>> found parts of it rather annoying (mostly Laura's mothers
 FS>> darn bawling through the whole thing!).

 JK>> But there was a reason for Laura's mother bawling her head
 JK>> off for most of the episode.  She is/was a psychic, and had
 JK>> "visions" of things...

 FS> Didn't say there wasn't a reason.  Only said it was annoying!
 FS> :-)

     :)  I suppose.  I don't recall thinking of it that way at the time,
although I suppose that some would find it annoying.  The visions were kind of
neat though, don't you think?

 FS>> (And of course I'll have to rent the "Fire Walk With Me"
 FS>> movie.)
 JK>> Some of us will have to rent or buy the movie, Frank.  I
 JK>> still haven't seen FIRE WALK WITH ME. :)

 FS> I finished the series the other day.  May rent "Fire Walk
 FS> With Me" this weekend.  I saw it at Blockbuster the other day,
 FS> along with the pilot movie and the first seven episodes.

     Ah, interesting.  I had no idea that some of the episodes of TWIN PEAKS
were actually on video at all.  I'd still like to see FIRE WALK WITH ME, but
haven't found a video shop that rents it; might have to add it permanently to
the collection of tapes, if I can find a copy of it for sale.

 FS>> On to the questions...  First, can someone match the actor's
 FS>> names with the characters for me.  I know probably less than
 FS>> half of them.  I'm interested in the main credit stars, the
 FS>> beginning credit stars, and even the main guest stars.

 JK>> Boy, you don't ask the little questions, do you? :)

 FS> [deleted]

 FS> Thanks for the list.

     You're welcome. :)

 FS> How did you manage to know all this?

     At one point I was fascinated by this stuff, so I had drawn up a list of
various characters from the series.  Stopped doing so after a while, but hey...

 FS> Anyway, it's missing a few important characters.  Giant was
 FS> of course played by Carel Struyken.

     That's "Struycken," of course. :)

 FS> I saw that David Lynch himself played someone in a few
 FS> episodes. At first I thought it must the rather Caucasian
 FS> looking Chinese guy <g>,

     *chuckle*  No, that turned out to be Catherine Martell in disguise.  David
Lynch guested as Cooper's superior, Gordon.  And he seems to have developed a
crush on Madchen Amick's character, Shelley, and regained his hearing properly
when he was around her.  It must have been love. <g>

 FS> Oh, and how about Annie Blackburn?  She was a rather
 FS> important character, even though she was only in the last
 FS> half dozen episodes or so.  I found her and Cooper to make
 FS> quite a cute couple.  :-)

     Yeah, they did...except that she proved to be Cooper's downfall, of course.
I can't for the life of me remember who played Annie, but I will take a look at
the videotapes at some point soon and see what I can dig up on this. Might be a
while, however...life hasn't been slow since I got back from KC.

 FS> Looking at your list it looks like you don't have anyone from
 FS> after the Laura Palmer mystery was solved.  Not a criticism by
 FS> any means.  Just a comment.

     Correct. :)  That's about the time that I stopped with the notes on cast
members, since I was more concerned with trying to figure out *what* was going
on after that!

 FS> How about Thomas Eckhart, Andrew Packard (yes, those last two
 FS> have the names listed with the actors), the mayor, Lana, Dick
 FS> Tremaine, Jack (who Audrey fell for).

     Dick Tremayne (sp?) was played by Ian Buchanan, of GENERAL HOSPITAL fame. I
rather liked his over-the-top performance in that.  Reminded me of some of the
characters out of various Tom Holt novels. :)

 FS> Oh, and the Renault brothers.  And others I can't think of.
 FS> Ah well

     You said it.  Geez, you're wanting a lot of stuff here! :)  Oh, and the
Renault brothers were called Jean and Jacques.  Actor names escape me at the
moment, but I can dig these up some time, too. :)

 FS>> Next question is, did season one end after Cooper got shot?
 JK>> Correct. :)
 FS>> So the first season would be six episodes, and seven hours.
 JK>> Nope.  According to my videotape collection, the first
 JK>> season consists of the two-hour premiere, and seven one-hour
 JK>> episodes.

 FS> Hmm, this seems to be correct.  I didn't have the so-called
 FS> episode title list until after well into the "second season,"
 FS> so I couldn't follow along at the time.

     That's what I kind of figured, Frank...but as I said in the earlier post,
to the best of my knowledge, the episodes of TWIN PEAKS didn't have individual
titles.  And if they did, I'd like to know a) the source of the titles that your
friend had, and b) the full list of episode titles.

 FS>> The second season would be 24 episodes and 25 hours (or 26
 FS>> if there were two two hour episodes).
 JK>> The second season consists of a two-hour premiere again, and
 JK>> 21 one-hour episodes as well.

 FS> OK...The list I have seems to be totally made up, and not
 FS> quite accurate even in which episode goes where.  (huh?)

     <blink, blink>  My reaction, exactly. :)  That makes no sense to me, since
the episodes would have to be in order or one couldn't make sense out of what
was going on.

 FS> Still, most of the titles actually went quite well with what
 FS> the episodes were actually about.

     Which doesn't mean that these are actually the episode titles, you know.
For example, I've seen every episode of EARTH2 that's aired to this point, and
while I know that the episodes *do* have titles, I've never seen them or a list
of them.  I've come up with some of my own titles, some of which are likely
better or worse than the actual titles of the stories.

 FS> Fer instance it has the pilot as "Wrapped In Plastic," the
 FS> season one finale as "Bite The Bullet," the episode with
 FS> Laura's secret diary as "The Diary of Laura Palmer," the
 FS> episode where Maddy is killed is, well, "Maddy."  Actually,
 FS> most of the later titles aren't all too creative. I'll post
 FS> it in the next message just so you can see it.

     Please do.  I'd like to see it.  One thing I can tell you is that I'd love
to get a confirmation on whether the episodes had titles or not.  Perhaps
someone else out there is knowledgeable about this matter.

     John
.....
"Walk a mile on these paws and call me a liar." - Gaspode (MP)

--- GoldED 2.41
 * Origin: The Point Away From Home (1:163/198.5)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 285 of 384
 From : Michael Vergara                     1:2605/631      .åò 01 .þí 95 17:03
 To   : Frank Eva
 Subj : Confessions & Lamentation
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE 1.11+
Said Frank Eva to Richard Yamagata about Confessions & Lamentation:

 FE> which sympathy is  needed (Confessions & Lamentations). I find it hard
 FE> to equate Delenn  with the warrior race that brought Earth to its
 FE> knees...

Then again, she isn't a warrior.  The Minbari are divided into seperate castes,
like the religious and the warrior (Delenn being a member of the religious
caste, I think).  Not all of the Minbari are warriors, just like not all
politicians are lawyers.


MikeyV


... Hey Worf!!....I hooked Data up to a modem!....Wanna see??
--- Blue Wave/TAG v2.12 [NR]
 * Origin: The MindScape BBS (1:2605/631)

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 Msg  : 286 of 384
 From : Peter Tam                           1:250/836       .åò 01 .þí 95 17:43
 To   : Robert Lidgren
 Subj : ROSWELL
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
I saw Roswell starring Agent Cooper from Twin Peaks(I can't spell Kyle's last
name:)).  I thought it was entertaining.  It didn't convince me about the
government finding aliens but it was compelling.  I liked JFK too.

--- Maximus 2.01wb
 * Origin: USS Proxima = Toronto <V.FC> (416)265-3867 (1:250/836)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 287 of 384
 From : Tony Limbert                        1:2215/420      .åò 01 .þí 95 17:49
 To   : Kay Shapero
 Subj : SLIDERS SEASON FINALE
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
While summoning Cthulhu, I overheard Kay say :

 KS>
 KS>
 KS> On <May 29 08:54>, Tony Limbert (1:2215/420) wrote to Kay Shapero:

 TL>How about a FARNHAM FREEHOLD world where whites are still slaves?
 TL>That would be an interesting adventure for Remmy.

 KS> Bet they'd still wish a doomed romance on him there too...

Yeah, but with THE GIRL?! :)

TL



... Gimme a shot of reality...BANG...again...BANG...again...
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12


--- PCBoard (R) v15.21/M 2
 * Origin: New Visions, PCBoard 15.21, Kent/Ohio 216-677-1040/9812 (1:2215/420)

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 Msg  : 288 of 384
 From : Rumble                              1:163/436       .åò 01 .þí 95 20:11
 To   : David Johnston
 Subj : Voyager Nose Diving?
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
--- Maximus 2.02
 * Origin: Coven's Den (613)746-3584 = 650+ Echoes & 4.3+ Gigs (1:163/436)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 289 of 384
 From : Frank Glover                        1:2613/477      .åò 01 .þí 95 20:57
 To   : Frank Eva
 Subj : Re: B5 Catch-Up
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

FE>  Yes, that's the same thing. Is the series popular enough to warrant a
FE>
FE>  line of B5 toys? With the threat of cancellation looming over the
FE>  show,
FE>  I don't think anyone will find this license a safe investment...

    Probably right...yet one toymaker marketed a series of action figures from
the movie `Alien' *years* after not only theatrical release, but after it had
made the rounds on cable and broadcast TV...

   Frank


--- QuickBBS 2.80 GoldBase (Zeta-1)
 * Origin: The Matrix Data Bank BBS, Rochester, Ny (1:2613/477)

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 Msg  : 290 of 384
 From : Boris CDuke                         2:463/2.22      .pä 07 .þí 95 00:23
 To   : Paul Worley
 Subj :
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Hi Paul!

 PW> Anybody know when GENERATIONS will be coming out on video?

Never ;)

Bestest, Boris
aka 2:463/2.22
aka 2:463/702.22
aka boris@sfclub.freenet.kiev.ua

 * Origin: Imagineering (2:463/2.22)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 291 of 384
 From : Jonathan Tinsley                    1:366/4017      .òp 16 .àé 95 22:30
 To   : Steven Wesen
 Subj : Re: ST: VOYAGER SURVIVES
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Focusing on the matrix Steven called out to Ecarey saying:

 SW> Star Trek Voyager's Q&A should have had this question :
 SW> Why did is their backbone story Ideas stolen from Red Dwarf?

 SW> A Ship 3 million light years from home.

More or less.  At least the Voyager crew isn't 3 million years in their
future as well.

 SW> A Hologramatic crew member.

And almost as annoying as Rimmer! ;)

 SW> Short cuts are constanty provided and fail.

This is true...

 SW> And the cheaky reference when they went by a Red Dwarf.

                                                  ^^^^^^^^^
Which referrence was this?  What did I miss?  What did I miss?

... "3 million years!  I've still got that library book!" - Lister
--- FMail 0.98a
 * Origin: USS Scorpion * 904-678-3663 * v32b/v42b/vfc! (1:366/4017)

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 Msg  : 292 of 384
 From : Jonathan Tinsley                    1:366/4017      .òp 16 .àé 95 22:30
 To   : Phill Ash
 Subj : B5, B9
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Focusing on the matrix Phill called out to John saying:

 >thanks that's all I wanted to know.   there ARE a couple
 >instances in ST where there are living ships too...
 >(coincidence?) ;)

 >I'd be curious to have you name them, just so that we can do a
 >comparison between ST and B5 in this particular element of the series.

 PA> Tin Man, for one.

Is that the egg-shaped ship that spun around several times and sent out
those energy pulses that totally annihilated those two Romulan ships?

... CONFUSED?  Call Counselor Troi: 1-900-NCC-1701: $1.95/min
--- FMail 0.98a
 * Origin: USS Scorpion * 904-678-3663 * v32b/v42b/vfc! (1:366/4017)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 293 of 384
 From : Jonathan Tinsley                    1:366/4017      .òp 16 .àé 95 22:30
 To   : Tom Huber
 Subj : B5 VS ST
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Focusing on the matrix Tom called out to Robyn saying:

 TH> B5, on the other hand, doesn't have this theme. Some of the shows have
 TH> it, but it doesn't seem to be central to the show - at least, not like
 TH> Trek. Instead, B5 has a much larger theme that is less personal in
 TH> nature. It deals with entire races - much like Asimov's Foundation
 TH> Series vs. his Caves of Steel stories. The Foundation stories dealt
 TH> with the sweep of the human adventure on a cosmic scale, whereas Caves
 TH> dealt with the human adventure within a future society (reacting to it,
 TH> rather than being a force in it).

<blatantly butting in>  I'd like to interject that the `Robots series' to
which you refer is part of the greater `Foundation, Robots, and Empire
Universe'.  Check out Robots and Empire, and I believe the other is
Foundation and Earth.

 TH> Trek and B5 fill similar roles, with B5 being closer to Asimov's
 TH> Foundation series in its scope, and Trek following more closely with
 TH> the Caves of Steel scope. Note that B5 seldom deals with humans living
 TH> within the society and coping with it. It deals with people that are
 TH> shaping the destiny of the universe. Trek deals with people that are
 TH> living within a universe and somehow managing to survive.

Gee, and representing the entire human race in a trial to determine
humanity's fate isn't shaping the destiny of the universe?  Defeating the
Borg isn't shaping the universe?  Creating a subrace of Borg that aren't
part of the collective isn't?  The countless diplomatic problems with
Klingons, Romulans, Cardassians, Maquis, etc.?  Come on!  While the show
was running, the universe revolved around the Enterprise (1701, 1701A,
1701C, and 1701D)!

 TH> I think that is the "hope" that people see in Trek. Because it isn't
 TH> always well-done, I've grown somewhat tired of Trek and no longer
 TH> watch Deep Space Nine (It was good while it was the only real
 TH> alternative to Next Generation). I catch B5 and Voyager when I can.

I still watch DS9, but as far as space stations stories go, B5 has DS9
beat hands down.  Let's face it, the Star Trek writers just aren't as good
when they don't have a ship to send blundering into every manner of
trouble.  The runabouts just can't take the kind of punishment that Trek
writers like to dole out, hence the Defiant. :)

 TH> I can understand why you do not want to deal with B5. Hopefully, when
 TH> you aren't carrying the load you have in college, you'll be able to go
 TH> back and concentrate on B5's story. I think you'll find you'll like it
 TH> at that point. In the meantime, I agree - it is a lot of work to
 TH> follow everything that's going on, especially at the diplomatic level
 TH> of the story - which is the continuing element.

This is true, but we fans make time! :)

 TH> Trek, on the other hand, does not require as much concentration and is

     ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
This is _very_ true! ]:>

 TH> I agree with you on the "battle" between the two camps. It is silly
 TH> and the two shows are not as comparable as one might think. They have
 TH> and serve different audiences and frankly, I like that variety.

Which is why I keep watching them both - ST:Anything is easily digested
entertainment (as a general rule) while B5 is hard core for TV sci-fi.

... To boldly go where no intelligent lifeform in its right mind would go.
--- FMail 0.98a
 * Origin: USS Scorpion * 904-678-3663 * v32b/v42b/vfc! (1:366/4017)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 294 of 384
 From : David Johnston                      1:342/14        .ÿò 02 .þí 95 01:11
 To   : Rumble
 Subj : Voyager Nose Diving?
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
-> Well when it comes to TNG you seem to hate all the most popular
-> people!

I gotta be me.

--- PCBoard (R) v15.21/100
 * Origin: Freddy's Place - Edm. AB - 28.8K (403) 456-4241 (1:342/14)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 295 of 384
 From : David Johnston                      1:342/14        .ÿò 02 .þí 95 01:23
 To   : Jack Butler
 Subj : Highlander, The Series
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Hey, Jack.  I was just thinking about the latest discarded love
interest.  I haven't seen all the episodes but of the ones I have seen,
this seems to be the first one in which a non-immortal directly
witnessed a kill.  And she was pregnant.  I figure it's pretty standard
for doctors to counsel pregnant women to avoid exotic stimuli.  Does the
Quickening count as exotic?

--- PCBoard (R) v15.21/100
 * Origin: Freddy's Place - Edm. AB - 28.8K (403) 456-4241 (1:342/14)

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 Msg  : 296 of 384
 From : Frank Eva                           1:154/750       .ÿò 02 .þí 95 07:48
 To   : Robert Lidgren
 Subj : Part3/X-Files Episodes
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: FastEcho 1.42.bA 8060
I now have all of my taped episodes identified! Thanks very much for the
effort!

--- CMPQwk 1.42-R2 #145 ---
Dogs come when you call. Cats have answering machines...

---
 * Origin: *YOPS ]I[* 3.1 GIG * RA/FD/FE RADist * Milwaukee, WI (1:154/750)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 297 of 384
 From : Frank Eva                           1:154/750       .ÿò 02 .þí 95 07:48
 To   : Tom Huber
 Subj : United Paramount Network
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: FastEcho 1.42.bA 8060

TH>UPN really doesn't have much going for it. I'll be surprised if
TH>Paramount can hold it together. The comedies are worse than drivel...

You mean their "sitcoms" (Pig Sty & Platypus Man)? Agreed, they're no
better than 99% of the drek out there already...

TH>But then, I've enjoyed "Legend." Now there's a show that reminds me a
TH>bit of "The Wild, Wild West," which was a mix of science fiction (for
TH>them) and the wild west.

I've enjoyed Legend, too, but it reminds me of some of Brisco County's
episodes, especially the ones in which his scientist friend was working
on his contraptions!

--- CMPQwk 1.42-R2 #145 ---
Help stamp out and abolish redundancy!

---
 * Origin: *YOPS ]I[* 3.1 GIG * RA/FD/FE RADist * Milwaukee, WI (1:154/750)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 298 of 384
 From : Frank Eva                           1:154/750       .ÿò 02 .þí 95 07:48
 To   : Jeff Hancock
 Subj : Voices: John Vornholt
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: FastEcho 1.42.bA 8060

JH>FE>Sheesh... I'll probably never buy another B5 novel. Foolish of me
JH>FE>to think that the paperback writers would be allowed to advance
JH>FE>the B5 STORYLINE, or actually tell a good sci-fi story...

JH>Unless JMS writes it? ;) I wonder how he feels about these poor
JH>efforts.

Probably the same way he feels about the B5 comics, which also don't do
much about advancing the storyline... It's just another source of
income, and a way to keep B5 in the public eye...

ref: Kosh revealed?

JH>I'm thinking it'll be a CGI ball of light,

Based on the first season episode in which Kosh as a "ball of light"
moved back and forth in front of a translucent screen?

---
 * Origin: *YOPS ]I[* 3.1 GIG * RA/FD/FE RADist * Milwaukee, WI (1:154/750)

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 Msg  : 299 of 384
 From : Frank Eva                           1:154/750       .ÿò 02 .þí 95 07:48
 To   : All
 Subj : B5 RERUNS???
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: FastEcho 1.42.bA 8060
Does anyone know what happened to the last 5 episodes in this season's
schedule? (The Long Twilight Struggle, Divided Loyalties, Comes the
Inquisitor, The Price of Peace, and The Fall of Night (season finale)).
We've had reruns 3 weeks in a row!

---
 * Origin: *YOPS ]I[* 3.1 GIG * RA/FD/FE RADist * Milwaukee, WI (1:154/750)

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 Msg  : 300 of 384
 From : Frank Eva                           1:154/750       .ÿò 02 .þí 95 07:48
 To   : Robert Lidgren
 Subj : X-FILES LIST WANTED
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: FastEcho 1.42.bA 8060

RL>By the way, I am thankful that X-Files will be back!!  This has been
RL>a season of cancellations, hasn't it?  I'll miss Earth 2 but wasn't
RL>really surprised it was cancelled.  However, I was quite angry that
RL>Sliders wasn't picked up.  It had ALL OF THE INGREDIENTS for a
RL>successful series.

All of the cancellations don't bode well for sci-fi on TV. While I won't
miss Earth 2, or VR5 that much, I was really shocked when I heard
Sliders had been axed. Oh well, there are a few new sci-fi shows in the
wings, and I hope they will be even more entertaining than Sliders. I
heard (if memory serves) of one called, simply "Space". Perhaps someone
who knows more about next season's projects can post some synopses here.

BTW, I sure hope Babylon 5's next season is secure...

RL>One of the problems with the Internet is that I never seem to know
RL>what city people are writing from.  I live in Calgary, Alberta,
RL>Canada.  From where do you hail?

Milwaukee, Wisconsin USA!

--- CMPQwk 1.42-R2 #145 ---
Tried to play my shoehorn... all I got was footnotes!

---
 * Origin: *YOPS ]I[* 3.1 GIG * RA/FD/FE RADist * Milwaukee, WI (1:154/750)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 301 of 384
 From : Starwolf                            1:163/214       .ÿò 02 .þí 95 11:21
 To   : Frank Eva
 Subj : B5 Baseball
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
I don't think they have the technology to be able to build-holodeck-level
entertainment areas.


--- Maximus 2.01wb
 * Origin: Land of Ill Repute (1:163/214)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 302 of 384
 From : David Johnston                      1:342/14        .ÿò 02 .þí 95 12:31
 To   : Tippi Blevins
 Subj : Sliders & Vr.5 Cancelled!
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
-> Well I hear tell that we get a new Aaron Spelling TV series about
-> vampires. ARGH!  I don't know what it's called, but how about
-> "Transylvania 90210"?

You know, you sound like all of the people appalled at letting Tom
Cruise play a vampire.

That program, entitled "Kindred" will be based on the best-selling White
Wolf roleplaying game "Vampire, the Masquerade".  It will focus on two
brothers (probably twins) one of whom is still alive and the other who
is now a vampire.  Given it's sources, one can expect it to be moody and
emotional, with sexual undertones.

--- PCBoard (R) v15.21/100
 * Origin: Freddy's Place - Edm. AB - 28.8K (403) 456-4241 (1:342/14)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 303 of 384
 From : James Ward                          1:362/708       .ÿò 02 .þí 95 15:20
 To   : Joel Jessup
 Subj : SeaQuest DSV
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Coolness as you said before,if you hear any SeaQuest info ,will pass it on.
 and so will I...
BTW little story if you like... I was at MGM and got some Great pics of the
outside of studio 21 or is it 19? (as of post time didn't remember) and some of
the trailer the actor's live in, but sadly no pics of the actors :(
that was when the new season was starting and they didn't have Darwins pool
done, I wanted to go into that studio sooo BAD! it was cool to take the tour
past it anyhow....
C-ya.

**Message to Lukas from Capt. Bridger Commanding Officer  UEO SeaQuest**
************************ Message Follows *******************************
******* "We've Had it kid! don't let them tell you what to think! ******

Message Intereupted   End.



--- Maximus 2.02
 * Origin: The Inner Circle: Cleveland TN, (615) 479-3686 (1:362/708)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 304 of 384
 From : Rumble                              1:163/436       .ÿò 02 .þí 95 22:49
 To   : Tony Trujillo
 Subj : Re: SeaQuest Survives
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Hey I still what it and i'm a guy, so I dont want to see Lucus. Next year they
are going to try to satisfy everyone. More than half of the plots will be real
sci-fi with technobable here and there. And there will still be the wierd ones
too.

--- Maximus 2.02
 * Origin: Coven's Den (613)746-3584 = 650+ Echoes & 4.3+ Gigs (1:163/436)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 305 of 384
 From : Starwolf                            1:163/214       .óá 03 .þí 95 02:24
 To   : Debra Milner
 Subj : X-Files Finale
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

DM>How DID Mulder get out of that car?

We didn't see ALL of the interior.  There may have been a hidden cranny.
He might have hidden under the pile of bodies.  They should have
protected him from a short blast of heat.  There may have been a gap
under the car if the sand didn't fill everything in and he might have
got out via a service hatchway under the car.


 * SLMR 2.1a * "I think I'm allergic to governments." - StarWolf

--- Maximus 2.01wb
 * Origin: Land of Ill Repute (1:163/214)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 306 of 384
 From : Starwolf                            1:163/214       .óá 03 .þí 95 03:43
 To   : Frank Eva
 Subj : ST: Voyager
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

FE>technobabble in "Learning Curve" was countered with totally predictable
FE>cadet indoctrination. These writers really need the summer off! :-)

They need new writers.  Period.  I've seen Peter David's work for B5,
and it beats the stuffings out of what's been coming out of VOYAGER.
Even coming in cold to that show he could write spheres (not mere
circles) around the current crop of so-called writers.


 * SLMR 2.1a * "The State has no place in the bedrooms of the nation"

--- Maximus 2.01wb
 * Origin: Land of Ill Repute (1:163/214)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 307 of 384
 From : SEAN CASZATT                        1:2601/512      .óá 03 .þí 95 14:02
 To   : DEMIAN KATZ
 Subj : X-FILES konference??
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

-=> Quoting DEMIAN KATZ to MORTEN MaNSSON <=-

> Can anybody please confirm, or the opposite ;-(, the rumour about,
> there being a seperate X-Files konference called - plainly: X-FILES ??

 DK> There is one, but to my knowledge it isn't backboned, and is thus only
 DK> available in a limited area.

It was recently added to the Backbone and should be available everywhere
now.


 * AmyBW v2.11 *
... Hello, I am message number ||#||||#||#||#||.
--- Platinum Xpress/Wildcat! v1.0b
 * Origin: Project Aurora - The Truth is Out There! - (1:2601/512)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 308 of 384
 From : SEAN CASZATT                        1:2601/512      .óá 03 .þí 95 14:07
 To   : ROBERT LIDGREN
 Subj : ROSWELL INFO?
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

-=> Quoting ROBERT LIDGREN to ALL <=-

 RL> I think HBO or one of the other U.S. cable networks broadcast "Roswell"
 RL> about the UFO crash in New Mexico in 1947.  I haven't seen it yet.  Can
 RL> you let me know what you thought of it?

The movie ROSWELL was a Showtime movie.  It's recently been released on
videotape.

It's a good movie that doesn't go "off the deep end".  It presents
the case in a fairly level-headed manner.  The acting is quite good.

Check it out.

 * AmyBW v2.11 *
... I am Sharon Stone of Borg: Clothing is irrelevant!
--- Platinum Xpress/Wildcat! v1.0b
 * Origin: Project Aurora - The Truth is Out There! - (1:2601/512)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 309 of 384
 From : Frank Glover                        1:2613/477      .óá 03 .þí 95 12:44
 To   : Mark Jones
 Subj : Re: Starfleet Rules as...
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

MJ>  And I've got a couple, as well:
MJ>
MJ>  11.  The use of fuses and circuit breakers is strictly prohibited!
MJ>
MJ>  12.  All manual overrides must be electronically operated.
MJ>

   And:

   Under no circumstances, no matter how damaged the ship, must the artificial
gravity fail.

   (The only case of this I remember was the Klingon ship in ST6...)

   Frank


--- QuickBBS 2.80 GoldBase (Zeta-1)
 * Origin: The Matrix Data Bank BBS, Rochester, Ny (1:2613/477)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 310 of 384
 From : Frank Glover                        1:2613/477      .óá 03 .þí 95 12:58
 To   : Dan Kachoogian
 Subj : Re: SLIDERS KILLED TOO!!
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

DK>  RL> cancelled too so the networks can bring back "Lost in Space:  The
DK>  RL> 90's
DK>  RL> edition":  AAARRRRGhhhhhhhh!!!

DK>  Comparing basic premise alone, isn't ST:V the SAME SHOW as Lost in
DK>  Space?

   In a sense, neither one was. In Voyager, they know *where* they are, (even
the galaxy is finite, and there are too many extra-galactic references to be
truly lost), they just can't get home in a practical time without some sort of
help.

   And in Lost in Space, they spent most of their time stuck on one planet. They
seemed to know where they were, they just couldn't get off.

   But at least ST-V can reasonably keep running into trouble on the way home,
just as the Enterprise did while *looking* for it. On LIS, their planet seemed
to be the center of the bad-alien universe. Everything seemed to come out of the
blue to happen to *them.*

   (Submarine shows like Voyage To The Bottom Of The Sea, and Sea Quest suffer
from the same limitation. Everything seems to come from light-years away to zero
in on not just one little planet,but one little submarine in it. At least Sea
Quest's second season has been kind of like that. There's just so much you can
do when limited to the oceans of one well explored, heavily inhabited world...)

   Frank


--- QuickBBS 2.80 GoldBase (Zeta-1)
 * Origin: The Matrix Data Bank BBS, Rochester, Ny (1:2613/477)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 311 of 384
 From : Frank Glover                        1:2613/477      .óá 03 .þí 95 13:01
 To   : Paul Worley
 Subj : ST-Generations
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

PW>  Anybody know when GENERATIONS will be coming out on video?
PW>
PW>  Paul

   I've asked two local video stores. One had no idea, the other believed it
would be on the shelves by fall, but available for rental before that....

   Frank


--- QuickBBS 2.80 GoldBase (Zeta-1)
 * Origin: The Matrix Data Bank BBS, Rochester, Ny (1:2613/477)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 312 of 384
 From : Ecarey                              1:101/230       .ÿò 19 .àé 95 15:09
 To   : John Kahane
 Subj : B5 TALK
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 >>> E "PTEN isn't actually a network, or trying to be a network.
 >FE>> You wouldn't know it by their NAME, after all, that IS what
 >>> the "N" stands for ...
 >
 >E> Yes, I know what their name is: Prime Time Entertainment Network.
 >E> But you'll notice, their shows also aren't usually on in prime
 >E> time.:)
 >
 JK>      Aww, you noticed. :)  Seriously though, that's one of the
 > things that really annoys me about BABYLON 5.  The show is
 > definitely *not* on in prime time in the area I get it.  Unless
 > prime time has been moved to midnight! <g>

Syndicated shows have to fight for time-slots, and B5 doesn't have Trek's
thirty-year money-making record. For that matter, except for Voyager, which
\isn't\ syndicated, \Trek\ doesn't reliably get a "prime time" slot - 7:00pm
Saturday or Sunday, the times when DS9, and TNG before it ended, have normally
been broadcast in Boston, which IS a major market, simply doesn't qualify as
"prime time." In fact, B5 is doing a little \better\ - the last month or so,
it's been broadcast at 8:00pm Sunday.:)

--- FLAME v1.0
 * Origin: Withouta Net - Drop In Anytime! - 617/846-5416 (1:101/230)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 313 of 384
 From : Ecarey                              1:101/230       .ÿò 19 .àé 95 15:21
 To   : Brian Henderson
 Subj : B5 RIPOFF: DS9
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 > EE> Dan, you're gonna confuse Deanna \real\ bad, including the first
 > two
 > EE> Trek series in that list, after saying B5 is better.:)
 >
 BH> But they both deserve to be in the list.  Both Treks have been
 > influential in
 > the way TV SF has been viewed and have set standards for special
 > effects, if
 > not necessarily writing.  B5 *IS* better than TNG (and at least as
 > good as
 > TOS), but it has not made it's mark on TV SF.

Oh, I agree completely, but Deana's one of the either/ors - you're only allowed
to like EITHER Trek OR B5, but not both - and therefore Dan's approval of B5
"ought" to mean he has no respect for Trek.:)

 > EE> If the last significant series sf on tv had been LOST IN SPACE
 > or
 > EE> BATTLESTAR GALACTICA, he'd have had a much tougher time
 > marketing an
 > EE> sf show that's so obviously for adults.
 >
 BH> Actually, Lost In Space was quite influential for it's time.  TOS
 > was accused
 > of being a LIS rip-off for much of it's original airing.  The
 > problem is that
 > while TOS might have made it easier to market sf on television, TNG
 > most

LOST IN SPACE  was a kiddie show, and it took a looong time for TOS to overcome
the perception that therefore, ALL sf must be kiddie shows. Despite that
perception, however, TOS was in fact a far more adult and ambitious show,
regularly tackling serious contemporary issues. Eventually, that fact, and the
fact that TOS had an audience that didn't go away just because the show got
cancelled, penetrated the minds of the dim bulbs at Paramount and elsewhere.

BATTLESTAR GALACTICA was even worse than LOST IN SPACE, not only a kiddie show,
but a kiddie show that was a badly written, badly acted, expensive and
spectacular \failure\.

Painful as it may be for you to admit it, TNG \was\ important in breaking down
the resistance to new sf shows on television, because it demonstrated that TOS
wasn't necessarily a fluke. Granted that few wanted to risk challenging it
directly; but when TNG was headed for cancellation, and DS9 was on the air, ALSO
successful but not the perceived terrifying juggernaut that TNG was, we suddenly
got a spate of attempts at new sf shows.

--- FLAME v1.0
 * Origin: Withouta Net - Drop In Anytime! - 617/846-5416 (1:101/230)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 314 of 384
 From : Ecarey                              1:101/230       .ÿò 19 .àé 95 15:25
 To   : Steven Wesen
 Subj : RE: ST: VOYAGER SURVIVES
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 > I Know that Voyager was not a direct rip off of Red Dwarf but it is
 > to close in some of its core properties that it seems just a copy
 > and we do not need this kind of Science Fiction.

Have you ever read the Odyssey?

This is NOT an irrelevent question.

--- FLAME v1.0
 * Origin: Withouta Net - Drop In Anytime! - 617/846-5416 (1:101/230)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 315 of 384
 From : Ecarey                              1:101/230       .ÿò 19 .àé 95 15:31
 To   : Frank Eva
 Subj : HARLAN ELLISON
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 > E "Harlan Ellison has a major grudge against STAR TREK, which is
 > E "partially justified and partially not. I wouldn't look to him for
 > E "objective commentary on it.
 >
 FE>         Yes, I read all about his "grudge" in William Shatner's Star
 > Trek Memories. It was very revealing, and I feel his grudge was
 > justified. I personally think his take on Star Trek is valid. Since
 > he
 > also takes a few potshots at B5, it's obvious he isn't prejudiced
 > against Star Trek alone. I personally think his grudge is against
 > TV/SF
 > in general...

Harlan Ellison is an extremely successful Hollywood scriptwriter, who has
managed to alienate virtually everyone he has ever worked with. When he's been
under contract to a show, rather than merely selling individual scripts, he has
usually managed to get fired, except on those occasions when he has QUIT.

He hasn't got a grudge against B5 or tv or sf generally - he's just naturally
cantankorous, and criticizes everything, regardless of whether he's associated
with it or not.

--- FLAME v1.0
 * Origin: Withouta Net - Drop In Anytime! - 617/846-5416 (1:101/230)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 316 of 384
 From : Ecarey                              1:101/230       .ÿò 19 .àé 95 15:34
 To   : Tom Huber
 Subj : VORLON IMMORTALITY
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 > E>TH>Aside from Enemy Mine, I cannot think of anything in motion
 > pictures
 >>TH>that equals B5 for scope. Dune might qualify, but the scope of Herbert's
 >>TH>work was left on the cutting room floor.
 >
 > E>Even ENEMY MINE chickened out - the ending of the movie was vastly
 >>softened from the punch-in-the-gut ending of the original.
 >
 TH> It sounds like I've got to chase down the story it was based upon. I

Oh, definitely, you NEED to read the original.

 > liked the ending, even though it was a bit abrupt, in my book... But
 > then, I tend to write abrupt endings, too... I just don't project
 > them
 > as far into the future as Enemy Mine did their ending...

It certainly wasn't a \bad\ ending, IF you don't know what Longyear did in the
original. Compared to the original, it's a cowardly ending tacked on by people
who assumed the real ending would upset the audience and scare 'em off.

--- FLAME v1.0
 * Origin: Withouta Net - Drop In Anytime! - 617/846-5416 (1:101/230)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 317 of 384
 From : Ecarey                              1:101/230       .ÿò 19 .àé 95 15:41
 To   : Robert Lidgren
 Subj : EARTH 2/SO LONG
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 > Well, if Entertainment Tonight can be believed, Earth 2 will not be
 > back.
 > That's too bad, I was hoping to see further adventures but sometimes
 > these
 > things happen.  What is a surprise is that SeaQuest DSV did make the
 > "cut"
 > instead!  So, the Earth 2 psaperbacks will go into history as
 > interesting
 > collectables from a one-season wonder.
 >
 > By the way, does ANYONE else feel sorry Earth 2 has bitten the dust?
 >  Sometimes
 > I got the impression that I was among, oh, maybe 25 people in North
 > America who
 > watched the series and generally enjoyed it!

And I'm another of the twenty-five.:(

--- FLAME v1.0
 * Origin: Withouta Net - Drop In Anytime! - 617/846-5416 (1:101/230)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 318 of 384
 From : Ecarey                              1:101/230       .óá 20 .àé 95 08:48
 To   : Frank Glover
 Subj : B5 VS ST
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
FG>FE>          Hmmm... I don't remember the reference to WW3, but I believe
FG>FE>  you. This just didn't have an impact on me, again, because I look at
FG>FE>  TV
FG>FE>  as entertainment, not prophecy in disguise...

FG>   Actually, there was at least one contradiction on this score. In one epis
FG>(whose title escapes me) Spock makes reference to "The (X) millions of peopl
FG>killed in your first World War, the (X) millions killed in your Second World
FG>War, the (X) millions killed in your third..."

FG>   But in `The Omega Glory' he makes reference to how "...They fought the wa
FG>your Earth avoided."

FG>  Go figure.

No necessary contradiction there - the world of Omega Glory apparently
fought an all-out war with nuclear devices and biological weapons that
destroyed their civilization completely.  Earth managed to turn back
from the brink, and fought a war that was damaging but not sufficient
even to seriously slow progress into space, much less knock Earth back
to Stone Age/hunter-gatherer level.

 * OLX 2.1 TD * Press "+" to see another tagline.

--- FLAME v1.0
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Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 319 of 384
 From : Ecarey                              1:101/230       .îí 22 .àé 95 15:36
 To   : Tom Huber
 Subj : EARTH 2/SO LONG
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 > There were some technical inconsistencies that bothered me,
 > especially
 > the concept that the isolated colony wasn't all that isolated and
 > that
 > "big brother" could move in any time and take over...

That's because, even though they didn't know it when they arrived, Big Brother
was \already there\, and had his own plans inconsistent with theirs.

It wasn't, in fact, a "technical inconsistency".

--- FLAME v1.0
 * Origin: Withouta Net - Drop In Anytime! - 617/846-5416 (1:101/230)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 320 of 384
 From : VINCENT MCCONNELL                   1:2601/574      .åò 25 .àé 95 19:03
 To   : MARK JONES
 Subj : Re: Star Wars
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
|Mark|, of sept |Jones'ashain|, spoke thusly::

 MJ> You guys seem to take it as a personal affront that I don't believe
 MJ> that the second coming of Star Wars is imminent.
 MJ> If you think so, fine.  Somebody asked why I didn't believe it.
 MJ> These were my reasons.  If you aren't convinced, that's fine too.
 MJ> Time will tell who was right.

I don't take personal affront, I think it's silly that you seem to be
utterly unbelieving in a press release by a pretty damn major company.
If you want to hold this huge evil opinion of SW fans, fine, but
having the mindset that Lucasfilm is outright lying is pretty absurd.

... "Bother," said Pooh, as the Red Ajah captured him.
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

--- GOMail v2.0v6 Beta [94-0191]
 * Origin: Image Gallery, 28.8, Internet, Adult and more! (1:2601/574)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 321 of 384
 From : VINCENT MCCONNELL                   1:2601/574      .åò 25 .àé 95 19:45
 To   : DAVID JOHNSTON
 Subj : Re: Sliders & Vr.5 Cancel
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
|David|, of sept |Johnston'ashain|, spoke thusly::

 DJ> That program, entitled "Kindred" will be based on the best-selling
 DJ> White Wolf roleplaying game "Vampire, the Masquerade".  It will focus
 DJ> on two brothers (probably twins) one of whom is still alive and the
 DJ> other who is now a vampire.  Given it's sources, one can expect it to
 DJ> be moody and emotional, with sexual undertones.

Wow.  Are you kidding?

Of course, it won't stay true to VTM I'm sure, but that will be neat to see.

... Force Strength Meter ->  weak ##################---- strong
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

--- GOMail v2.0v6 Beta [94-0191]
 * Origin: Image Gallery, 28.8, Internet, Adult and more! (1:2601/574)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 322 of 384
 From : Ecarey                              1:101/230       .óá 27 .àé 95 09:45
 To   : Richard Yamagata
 Subj : B5 RIPOFF: DS9
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
RY>* In a message originally to Jakc Butler, Brian Henderson said:
RY>BH> No kidding.  I didn't say otherwise.  I did say, however,
RY>BH> that B5 has a higher purpose than *JUST* making a quick buck.

RY>I do not know if this is true or not, but I would like to think that it is t
RY>for B5.  From the amount of energy that JMS expends by posting on GEnie and
RY>CIS, I believe that B5 means much more to him than a meal ticket.  My son
RY>is waiting for his B5 micro-machines, but from what I garner from JMS posts,
RY>seems JMS finds this type of marketing, demeaning.

He finds what type of marketing demeaning?

We all know that JMS has said that B5 will "never be a franchise", but
in fact there's already books, and comics, and in the first book, an add
for mugs and t-shirts.

So what type of marketing is it that JMS finds demeaning?  Just the
toys?



RY>BH> out but that's not the issue, is it?  For Paramount and the
RY>BH> makers of Star Trek, money is the biggest issue. For Warner, it quite
RY>BH> possibly might be.

RY>All I know is that from looking at the Nielsens, the Paramount Network's
RY>success is all owed to ST Voyager.  I think that the ST Voyager Q&A was a ch
RY>ploy to get Voyager fans to sit through hours of vapid programming just to f
RY>the Q&A sequence.  I think this supports your arguement about "selling
RY>grandma."  As for Warner, their network ratings are lower than Fox and
RY>Paramount.  How much lower and non-profitable can you get?  It may be a
RY>blessing that B5 is syndicated an not a Warner Network offering.  Ry

If the WB Network had even one decent show, they might be doing better.
If the PTEN shows were pulled from syndication and moved to the WB
Network, they'd have a bunch of shows with pre-built audiences that
could then be seen in something resembling "prime time" - it would
probably be a win all around.

As for trying to get fans of one show to sit through the following
shows, by various devices, that's not "selling grandma" - that's normal
network marketing.  The  other networks aren't currently doing this
particular version of it, but they have in the past.

 * OLX 2.1 TD * Back Up My Hard Drive? I Can't Find The Reverse Switch!

--- FLAME v1.0
 * Origin: Withouta Net - Drop In Anytime! - 617/846-5416 (1:101/230)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 323 of 384
 From : Ecarey                              1:101/230       .óá 27 .àé 95 09:45
 To   : Frank Eva
 Subj : VOYAGER NOSE DIVING?
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
FE>I wouldn't complain about Neelix if he didn't seem to always be employed
FE>as Barclay was in TNG. Of all the characters, I find the holo-doc the
FE>most interesting. Perhaps it's because he seems to be more of an "adult"
FE>(even though he's probably quite childlike when it comes to
FE>understanding the human condition) than the rest of the crew who seem to
FE>be fresh out of the academy and just barely beyond puberty. I really
FE>dislike how demographics is having such a profound effect on TV...

Frank, the demographics of the Voyager crew are the normal demographics
of a naval ship - except that the average age of the Voyager crew may in
fact be a tad HIGHER than in "real life".

Note that in TOS, the junior officers we did see were also young -
Chekov, Sulu, Rand. etc.

The officers on B5 are older, because that's a diplomatic post with lots
of tensions just below the surface.

The demographics on both Voyager and B5 are reasonable for the
story/setting each of the series has.

 * OLX 2.1 TD * This tagline is umop apisdn

--- FLAME v1.0
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Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 324 of 384
 From : Ecarey                              1:101/230       .óá 27 .àé 95 09:45
 To   : Richard Yamagata
 Subj : B5 VS ST
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
RY>On the other hand, it may not be surprising.  That long narrative by Delenn
RY>about the Shadows, the First Ones, the Vorlons, drove me MAD!!!  I played th
RY>sequence over and over -- TRYING TO FIGURE OUT WHAT MIRA WAS MUMBLING.  It i
RY>rediculous that she could not ennunciate better.  I do not think it was a
RY>directional ploy to heighten suspense.

RY>The only thing that let me understand what Mira muffed was a transcript of t
RY>part of the episode.  I think that this narrative was as critical to the
RY>B5 plot line as the dialog between Sheridan and Kosh about "understanding."

Strangely, I had no difficulty understanding or following Ms. Furlan's
speech.  Perhaps I simply have a better tv than you do - though that
seems unlikely, given how OLD the wretched thing is.:)

 * OLX 2.1 TD * hAS ANYONE SEEN MY cAPSLOCK KEY?

--- FLAME v1.0
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Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 325 of 384
 From : Ecarey                              1:101/230       .îí 29 .àé 95 13:25
 To   : Barry Blaes
 Subj : NOT SLIDERS
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
BB> JK>      Personally, I'm more concerned at this point with keeping BABYLON
BB> JK>      5 on the air.  And getting to see the last four episodes of Season
BB> JK>      Two before October, whereas the Europeans are going to be seeing
BB> JK>      them any time now.

BB>Din't see any thing on the internet for B5, but, then again I'm not reading
BB>any B5 stuff.

There's rec.arts.sf.tv.babylon5.  And an alt. topic on B5, and at least
one web page. And a mailing list. And archives available.

[Can you tell I just recently got access to newsgroups and the WWW ?:)]

 * OLX 2.1 TD * Hello, I am part number ¦ºÞº¦º¦Û¦ºÝ¦ºÝ¦¦

--- FLAME v1.0
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Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 326 of 384
 From : Ralph Strauser                      1:105/314       .pä 31 .àé 95 09:45
 To   : Jeff Hancock
 Subj : Confessions & Lamentation
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12  91-0012

 -=> Quoting Jeff Hancock to Frank Eva <=-

 FE>1. I noticed that the Markab spacecraft was not being towed with
 FE>grapples, but that Starfuries had attached themselves to the hull of
 FE>the vessel and were using their own thrusters to move the ship.

 JH> Are you sure? It looked to me as if they had attacked their grapples
 JH> to parts of the ship.

 JH> BTW, in Knives, do you think that knob on the rear was put there for
 JH> the express purpose of towing Starfuries like that?

    Sounds like typical Military Redundency. Shoot you ever notice that
    most military rigs have a pto connection on the back axle and the
    front of the tranny?


... Get your modem runnin, Head out for the Highwaves!
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12
 * Origin: COM-DAT BBS  (1:105/314.0)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 327 of 384
 From : Ecarey                              1:101/230       .pä 31 .àé 95 18:12
 To   : Lawrence Heinke
 Subj : THE KLINGONS VS THE BORG!
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 > EC-> But the Romulans and Cardassians and Klingons didn't have
 > anything ca
 > -> beating the Borg either -

 LH> Wrong!!! The Klingons have a weapon that could be lethal to the
 > Borg. The weapon could easily defeat them. It is called Blood Seed.
 > I forget the episode but in TNG all of some planets lifeforms were
 > being eradicated. The Enterprise was on some goose-chase looking for
 > DNA. The Klingons had beaten them there, got the DNA and, destroyed
 > the planet with Blood Seed a life devouring plasma. The Klingons
 > could fire it at the Borg, the Borg would see it as not a threat, it
 > would thereby destroy all DNA and render the ship inert. Klingons 1
 > - Borg 0!

Of course, you're wrong.

The Federation and the Cardassians and the Romulans can ALL fairly easily
destroy all life on a \planet\. "Life-devouring plasma" is a good description of
most any of their energy weapons.

What none of them can do is generate enough power in those weapons to break
through the Borg shields and do significant damage to the Borg ships.

--- FLAME v1.0
 * Origin: Withouta Net - Drop In Anytime! - 617/846-5416 (1:101/230)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 328 of 384
 From : Ecarey                              1:101/230       .åò 01 .þí 95 11:26
 To   : Frank Eva
 Subj : B5 CATCH-UP
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 > RY "FE> This would be nice but it would require a company like Simon
 > &
 > RY "FE> Schuster to envision a profit for such a series of books. I
 > RY "FE> personally think there are few publishers who would consider
 > RY "FE> such a series profitable at this early stage, with B5 still
 > a
 > RY "FE> somewhat unproven commodity...
 >
 > RY "You are right about this.  To make the point more poignant for
 > my
 > RY "son, "where are the micro-machines?"
 >
 FE> Yes, that's the same thing. Is the series popular enough to warrant
 > a
 > line of B5 toys? With the threat of cancellation looming over the
 > show,
 > I don't think anyone will find this license a safe investment...

FWIW, I talked to the program director at WSBK, the station that carries B5 in
the Boston market, and she said that B5 HAS been renewed. This is not the same
level of reliability as getting the information direct from Warner/PTEN, but it
surely means something, that WSBK expects to have B5 in its fall line-up.

--- FLAME v1.0
 * Origin: Withouta Net - Drop In Anytime! - 617/846-5416 (1:101/230)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 329 of 384
 From : Cmcdonough                          1:101/230       .åò 01 .þí 95 20:05
 To   : Myranya Werlemann
 Subj : DIRECTORIAL TRADEMARKS
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
MW> JB> Lucas's trademark is the numbers 1138.  They appear in every one
MW> JB> of his films *somehow*.
MW> [   ]
MW> That's really interesting. Do you know _why_ it's 1138?

  His first film was *THX-1138*

        /s/ Craig
 (or was it *TXH-1138*?)


 * OLX 2.1 TD * A clean, neat, desk is a sign of a sick mind.

--- FLAME v1.0
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Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 330 of 384
 From : Cmcdonough                          1:101/230       .åò 01 .þí 95 20:57
 To   : Ecarey
 Subj : ST: VOYAGER SURVIVES
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
::Steve Wesen wrote to Elisabeth Carey::

SW> > I Know that Voyager was not a direct rip off of Red Dwarf but it
SW> > is too close in some of its core properties that it seems just a
SW> > copy and we do not need this kind of Science Fiction.

EC>Have you ever read the Odyssey?

EC>This is NOT an irrelevent question.

Also, brownie points to those who can identify a movie considered
"classic" in SF that boldly/blatantly stole the plot from Shakespear's
*THE TEMPEST*.

     /s/ Craig


 * OLX 2.1 TD * "I drank WHAT!?" - Socrates

--- FLAME v1.0
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Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 331 of 384
 From : Michelle Willey                     1:379/37        .åò 01 .þí 95 23:18
 To   : Jack Butler
 Subj : RE: CONFESSIONS ET. AL.
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12  92-0315
On 26 May 95 06:48am, JACK BUTLER said the following:

 JB>      The rat-bastards who run WOFL, FOX 35 decided that Confessions and
 JB> Lamentations was just a bit too intense, so they re-ran Knives instead.
 JB>  Do me a favor, if you will, and netmail me as detailed a synopsis of
 JB>  that episode as you can, please...

 JB>      God, I hate censors...

Now that really sucks. Especially since the remote control makes censorship
at the personal level ever so easy. What I don't want to see, I can cut by
flipping to another channel for a while. But I really hate it when some ivory
tower exec decides for me what should be seen and not seen, heard and not
heard. Sympathies, fellow watcher.

MICHELLE WILLEY

... The future is just not what it used to be.
 * Evaluation copy of Silver Xpress. Day # 21
 * Silver Xpress V4.01

--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12
 * Origin: Borderline! BBS Concord,N.C. (704)792-9241  (1:379/37.0)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 332 of 384
 From : Michelle Willey                     1:379/37        .åò 01 .þí 95 23:18
 To   : John Kahane
 Subj : RE: B5 TALK
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12  92-0315

 SW> JK****     Aww, you noticed. :)  Seriously though, that's one of the
 SW> things that
 SW> JK****really annoys me about BABYLON 5.  The show is definitely *not*
 SW> on in prim
 SW> JK****time in the area I get it.  Unless prime time has been moved to
 SW> midnight!

I'm really lucky. In Charlotte, NC, B5 is on at 8:00pm on Saturday, and at
11:00pm on Sunday (same episode). Two different channels carry the program so
even if one preempts (a dastardly act), I can still catch it on the other
channel.

MICHELLE WILLEY

... Evolution is God's way of issuing upgrades.
 * Evaluation copy of Silver Xpress. Day # 21
 * Silver Xpress V4.01

--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12
 * Origin: Borderline! BBS Concord,N.C. (704)792-9241  (1:379/37.0)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 333 of 384
 From : Michelle Willey                     1:379/37        .åò 01 .þí 95 23:18
 To   : Frank Eva
 Subj : RE: KNIVES
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12  92-0315
Michelle is replying to FRANK who replied to RICHARD on 29 May 95 08:31am

 FE> Lamentations". I know how hard this must be, especially when JMS uses
 FE> other writers who don't have a full comprehension of the 5 year B5
 FE> story arc, but I wish he would reveal more of the main story arc with
 FE> each new episode...

I'm kind of torn on this issue. On one hand I really like the mystery and
having things revealed a little at a time. OTOH, I'm anxious to find out what
happens. I find myself caught between intrigued and frustrated.

MICHELLE WILLEY

... Planet 98% full. Delete politicians? (Y/y)
 * Evaluation copy of Silver Xpress. Day # 21
 * Silver Xpress V4.01

--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12
 * Origin: Borderline! BBS Concord,N.C. (704)792-9241  (1:379/37.0)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 334 of 384
 From : Bruce Baugh                         1:105/290.50    .ÿò 02 .þí 95 20:10
 To   : Mark Jones
 Subj : B5 Baseball
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On (30 May 95) Mark Jones wrote to Starwolf...

 MJ> Not necessarily--but the station *designers* may have been
 MJ> baseball fans. EarthForce seems to be strongly influenced by
 MJ> (if not descended from) the American government and culture.
 MJ> Americans, as a whole, are bigger fans of baseball than of
 MJ> zen.

For that matter, baseball is also _tremendously_ popular in Japan,
and in parts of the Third World. That part of the station could well
have been designed by someone other than an American.

... Rotisserie: A ferris wheel for chickens.

--- PPoint 1.92
 * Origin: The Home Trepanning Club (1:105/290.50)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 335 of 384
 From : David Johnston                      1:342/14        .óá 03 .þí 95 01:23
 To   : Mark Jones
 Subj : Sliders - Bathroom? Wash
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
-> True enough--but not the whole story.  (I agree that the "we can't
-> replicate really *big* things argument is an excuse for not making
-> full use of the technology, but....)
->
-> My modem is capable of transmitting as much data as anyone
-> else's--but only at 2400 baud (yes, I'm using stone-age technology
-> here).
->
-> It might take as much *total* energy to replicate an entire engine
-> block as to replicate the parts--but that's irrelevant if they can't
-> produce all the energy needed in one burst.

Of course the simple answer is just to build a bigger replicator.

--- PCBoard (R) v15.21/100
 * Origin: Freddy's Place - Edm. AB - 28.8K (403) 456-4241 (1:342/14)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 336 of 384
 From : Paul Worley                         1:2601/515      .óá 03 .þí 95 02:45
 To   : Nicolai Shapero
 Subj : Harlan Ellison
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
01 Jun 95 04:29, Nicolai Shapero wrote to Frank Eva:

 NS> He was, in theory, working on a sequel to the Outer Limits
 NS> episode, "DEMON WITH A GLASS HAND" entitled "DEMON ON THE RUN"
 NS> for B5.  But I haven't heard anything about this lately (no news
 NS> is good news?)

Harlan is supposed to show up at DragonCon in July (Atlanta, GA) I'll try to
remember to ask him when I get up to him in the autograph line. Hope you can
wait 6 more weeks!!

Paul

--- GoldED 2.42.G0614
 * Origin: USS Wolf - Wheatland, PA  (1:2601/515)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 337 of 384
 From : Mark Jones                          1:105/302.47    .óá 03 .þí 95 03:19
 To   : Gamin Davis
 Subj : Counselor Troi
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On (27 May 95) Gamin Davis wrote to Deana Kristof...

 GD> Jesus H. Christ, are we back to THIS argument again??? Get this
 GD> through your head, everybody: STARFLEET *IS* A MILITARY
 GD> ORGANIZATION!! It's one with a few variations in focus, but it IS
 GD> a military! Nor does it "lack discipline" or "security
 GD> procedures". Anybody who thinks that simply hasn't been paying
 GD> attention.

Well, actually, Deana vanished shortly after lighting the fuse on this
particular flame-fest.  (Presumably she either learned her lesson or
gave us all up as mind-numbed proponents of militarism....)

But as long as you've brought it up....

I'll agree that Starfleet has "discipline", if by that you mean to say
that they have established procedures for disciplining people.  I will
laugh long and loud if you claim they have *effective* discipline.

I'll also agree that Starfleet has "security procedures".  And I'll
laugh even longer and louder if you argue that they are reasonable or
effective.


... God, please grant me more patience...RIGHT NOW!

--- PPoint 1.78
 * Origin: HQ of World Domination, Inc. (1:105/302.47)

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 Msg  : 338 of 384
 From : Myra I Fox                          1:123/10        .óá 03 .þí 95 07:25
 To   : Jack Butler
 Subj : Joe Dawson
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

-=>Quoting Jack Butler to Gloria Darcy<=-

 GD> Great news, Jack!  What about Joe?  I haven't seen the second part yet
 GD> of the season finale.

 JB> As of right now, Joe Dawson will be back.

I haven't seen the second part yet... but I couldn't believe that
he was actually going to *use* the gun, I thought it was just a
last ditch effort to threaten her into giving the disk back to
him.  Of course, that wasn't going to work since she really
believes that she is doing the right thing.

I wonder if he will get to sing again?  Guess there are lots of
opportunities to sing the blues on this show.




... "Something strange is happening, MacLeod..." -- Joe Dawson
--- RA/FD/FMail.98
 * Origin: The Electric Fox - Memphis,Tn. (901)327-1008 (1:123/10)

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 Msg  : 339 of 384
 From : Frank Eva                           1:154/750       .óá 03 .þí 95 07:56
 To   : All
 Subj : B5 TRIVIA
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: FastEcho 1.42.bA 8060
Question: What Babylon 5 personality stars in the upcoming interactive
CD, Solar Eclipse, for the Sega Saturn?

Answer: Claudia Christian!

---
 * Origin: *YOPS ]I[* 3.1 GIG * RA/FD/FE RADist * Milwaukee, WI (1:154/750)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 340 of 384
 From : Frank Eva                           1:154/750       .óá 03 .þí 95 07:56
 To   : All
 Subj : X-FILES PAPERBACKS
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: FastEcho 1.42.bA 8060
The first 2 in this new series of original novels has been released, and
according to the salesman at Barnes and Noble, have been selling
briskly. In fact, the first novel, "Goblins", was completely sold out,
and I had to settle for #2, "Whirlwind", instead!

---
 * Origin: *YOPS ]I[* 3.1 GIG * RA/FD/FE RADist * Milwaukee, WI (1:154/750)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 341 of 384
 From : Karmin St.jean                      1:321/309       .óá 03 .þí 95 08:07
 To   : Mark Jones
 Subj : Starfleet Schmarfleet
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 >MM> 10. If your ships highly sophisticated automatic controls are unable
 >MM>     to cope with an unnatural cosmic fenomenon, try flying it
 >MM>     better manually!
 >
 > And I've got a couple, as well:
 >
 > 11.  The use of fuses and circuit breakers is strictly prohibited!
 >
 > 12.  All manual overrides must be electronically operated.


It would be so much easier if you just changed the gravitational constant of
the Universe.

--- FLAME v1.1
 * Origin: Final Approach BBS - Spfld, MA (413)783-5853 (1:321/309)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 342 of 384
 From : Steven Skaggs                       1:3608/250      .óá 03 .þí 95 22:22
 To   : Mark Jones
 Subj : Re: Star Wars
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12  94-2198

 -=> Quoting Mark Jones to Vincent Mcconnell <=-

 MJ> Talk is cheap.  Even "official" talk.  I still haven't seen or heard
 MJ> anything to convince this is anything *but* talk.

 MJ> And maybe someone will.  But it HASN'T HAPPENED YET.  And until
 MJ> there's more evidence than a Hollywood *press release* (for God's
 MJ> sake!), I still don't believe it will happen.

 I take talk that comes directly from George Lucas a little more seriously
 than just talk in general or Hollywood press realeases for that matter.
 There was a short interview with George Lucas in TV guide several months
 ago where he stated he would have a new Star Wars movie out by 2000. Yes,
 he could change his mind but I kind of doubt it. He has been intending to
 make more Star Wars movies for quite a while now.

 MJ> ...and if the studio fanned the flames with rumors of an impending new
 MJ> trilogy, the stuff will probably sell even better.  No marketing exec
 MJ> ever thought that "good enough" couldn't be improved.

 That really doesn't explain why Lucas says he will do new movies. He
 certainly doesn't need the money.

... You can tell fantasy from reality - if it sucks, it's real!
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12
 * Origin: Double Springs BBS Panama City, FL 904-784-6336  (1:3608/250.0)

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 Msg  : 343 of 384
 From : Earl Green                          1:3822/1        .óá 03 .þí 95 22:46
 To   : Frank Eva
 Subj : B5 RERUNS???
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

FE>Does anyone know what happened to the last 5 episodes in this season's
FE>schedule? (The Long Twilight Struggle, Divided Loyalties, Comes the
FE>Inquisitor, The Price of Peace, and The Fall of Night (season finale)).
FE>We've had reruns 3 weeks in a row!

  First off..."Fall of Night" is the final title of an episode that was
  originally named "The Price of Peace"; the latter title was instead
  used for one of the comics.
  As for the big question, Warner Bros. has decided to hold the last
  four episodes until *October*, allegedly to build interest for the
  beginning of the third season, which hasn't even been approved at this
  time.  Season 2 will be re-running ad nauseum till then.
        e
---
 * SLMR 2.0 * "Bother," said Pooh as Piglet sacrificed him to dark gods

--- QScan/PCB v1.17b / 01-0162
 * Origin: Jackalope Junction  501-785-5381 Ft Smith AR (1:3822/1)

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 Msg  : 344 of 384
 From : Richard Yamagata                    1:203/955       .óá 03 .þí 95 23:19
 To   : John Kahane
 Subj : B5 Catch-Up
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Hello John and all visitors to this echo!  The sight with the plot synopsis and
analysis that I visit regularly is:  http://www.hyperion.com
From there you just select: The Lurker's Guide to Babylon 5 to go into the most
complete B5 site in the world -- at least that is my opinion.

Your work posting the synopsises on the B5 echo is wonderful.  It is also a lot
of work.  I try to collect what is posted on the World Wide Web and I have to
cut and nip and format and...  it is a lot of work.  Matter of fact, I do not
bother to even fix what I collect up, unless someone like Frank Eva requests me
to netmail something to him.  I have 2 netmail requests at present and I am
trying to fulfill them.  Ry

---
 * Origin: Dynasoft 916-753-8788  3Gig C C++ Everyone (1:203/955)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 345 of 384
 From : Richard Yamagata                    1:203/955       .óá 03 .þí 95 23:23
 To   : Frank Eva
 Subj : B5 COMIC
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

FE> According to the letters column in issue #5, DC Comics will be rotating
FE> teams of artists/writers. So, even though the current look has improved,
FE> there is no guarantee this same team will continue to produce the B5
FE> comic...

Hi Frank, I just signed up a Comic shop with my Web Presence development firm.
So, I will soon be getting the B5 comics, regularly.  Hopefully, I will be able
to pick-up the back issues without losing a limb in the process.  Ry

---
 * Origin: Dynasoft 916-753-8788  3Gig C C++ Everyone (1:203/955)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 346 of 384
 From : Richard Yamagata                    1:203/955       .óá 03 .þí 95 23:48
 To   : Frank Eva
 Subj : B5 TALK
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

FE> FS "(Delenn).  In fact, she's probably my least favorite
FE> character.

FE> She used to be one of my favorites, before she underwent the
FE> "change"...

I have to say that I found this last episode very unsettling when it came to
Delenn.  We are in the re-run phase that will last until August, I read on the
Net, so I can discuss this weird scene.  Where are they going with this, "will
you call me John?"   As it is, they imply that Delenn and Commander Sinclair
were married in that episode long ago where they were exchanging culture and
customs.  It seems that this bit was penned by JMS back, before they decided
that Sinclair was to leave.  It made no sense to me.

Other than that, I loved this episode.  I think that Richard Biggs makes every
plot line and scene on B5 that he is a part -- work.  This episode, I could find
not a single scene of his that I could criticize.  When I first saw the promos,
my first thought was, "oh no, another attempt at trying to capitalize
on that Dustin Hoffman movie."  Well, I do not think you could say that.  This
episode had a message and a moral.  It also ended in a way that shakes you to
the core.  I find it ironic that they were able to save the race of carrion
eaters and yet not save a race with eating habits more in line with humans.

This was an excellent episode for me.  It was interesting that they used a
little person (PC) to play the young girl, not a child.  That was an interesting
choice.  It seems that all in all, you cannot say that Billy Mummy is given
fluff pieces.  His part in this episode was significant.  It was also memorable
and left a lasting impression upon me.  It also adds to the arguement why the
role of the Narn Ambassador aide changed.

Lastly, after this, I think that the Janet Greek season finale written by JMS is
going to be something that is going to knock everyone's socks off and have the
VCR playing over and over.  She is the finest of the B5 directors in my opinion.
The sound tracks of her episodes should be nominated for awards and sold on CDs.
I am so excited by what the future portends for this series. We are seeing the
creation of another classic series.  JMS builds up the plot
lines and the expectations, but he has yet to disappoint me.

I remember that BATTLESTAR GALACTICA would build up these new and unique plot
lines that had all types of implications and then... just peter out or have some
rediculous conclusion that was a no-brainer.

B5 just gets better and better.  JMS, the directors and the actors all are
honing their art -- by year 5 it will be something that very few Sci-fi
programmers could not even begin to match coming out of the future starting
blocks.  Ry

---
 * Origin: Dynasoft 916-753-8788  3Gig C C++ Everyone (1:203/955)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 347 of 384
 From : Richard Yamagata                    1:203/955       .óá 03 .þí 95 23:58
 To   : Brian Henderson
 Subj : B5 Ripoff: Ds9
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

BH> I'm not saying that Robyn was wrong.  I said that B5 *WAS* an investment
BH> of time and that is what I like about it. The plotlines *WILL* end neatly
BH> BH> at the end of the series, I assume, but you do have to spend some BH>
BH> time thinking about the show. That is one of it's best qualities.

Here, here, you are preaching to the choir!  You are absolutely, 100% correct.
(This is in no reference and not meant to paraphrase OJ <g>.)

BH> You said at the end that "unfortunately, B5 is not like Star
BH> Trek".  There is nothing unfortunate about it. It is not supposed to be
BH> like Star Trek, and if it was, I certainly wouldn't watch it.

Again, I have to agree with you.  I do not watch DS9.  I do not watch Voyager
on a regular basis.  I may tape the episodes for someone else to watch, but that
is where it ends.  The only show that I tape, archive an watch religiously is
BABYLON 5.  B5 is the only show that I try to interest people in watching on a
regular basis.  Ry

---
 * Origin: Dynasoft 916-753-8788  3Gig C C++ Everyone (1:203/955)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 348 of 384
 From : Richard Yamagata                    1:203/955       .cê 04 .þí 95 00:06
 To   : Brian Henderson
 Subj : B5 Vs St
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

BH> Absolutely.  I think I've seen most of the heavy arc episodes at least 5-6
BH> times now. You just have to keep going back and picking up the clues in
BH> light of new information. My next episode will be "Deathwalker" BH> to try
BH> to piece together the Kosh/Talia angle.

You are a person that should be commended as one of the FAITHFUL.  It is people
like you that will keep the interest in this series high with inciteful
discussion.  Matter of fact I would like to hear what your conclusions are from
this episode.  Did Ivanova really say something to the effect that the Vorlon
were immortal?  What does the episode show that Dr. Franklin do with
DEATHWALKER's blood sample?

BH> B5 *HAS* magic.  It makes you look forward to the next episode. I can't
BH> this week. So what? B5 is a show that appeals to fans of written sci-fi.

Some of your analysis I will have to keep around and quote in a feature article
about Babylon 5!  I agree with you completely on this.

"Everyone eventually comes to Babylon 5."   Even more true today, than it was
4 years ago! Ry

---
 * Origin: Dynasoft 916-753-8788  3Gig C C++ Everyone (1:203/955)

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 Msg  : 349 of 384
 From : Richard Yamagata                    1:203/955       .cê 04 .þí 95 00:09
 To   : Gary Tincher
 Subj : Who to write to for B5
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Gary, Good News, B5 has been renewed and the future is BRIGHT.  MICROMACHINES
has come out with Babylon 5 toys, which means that the powers that be are sure
that B5 is something that will be marketable for some time to come.

Did you send in your postcard?  That in itself shows the marketing potential for
the show and shows advertisers that the people that watch B5 do see the
commercials and act upon them.  I send in at least a half dozen by now.
SUPPORT BABYLON 5.  Convert your friends to B5 watchers!  Converse with JMS on
GEnie, CIS or Delphi!  Ry

---
 * Origin: Dynasoft 916-753-8788  3Gig C C++ Everyone (1:203/955)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 350 of 384
 From : Richard Yamagata                    1:203/955       .cê 04 .þí 95 00:32
 To   : Gary Tincher
 Subj : Who to write to for B5
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
* In a message originally to All, Gary Tincher said:

GT> Anyone have an address to write to to keep B5 on the air?
GT> Or is it too late... :(

I thought about your request and heck, it is never too late to show your local
station that you support Babylon 5.  Just tell me the city and state that the
TV station is locate that you receive your B5 broadcasts from, and I will supply
you with the address.

Thank you for your willingness to write and show your support for B5.  Maybe we
can demonstrate enough B5 support that next year B5's renewal will become a
foregone conclusion!!!  Ry

---
 * Origin: Dynasoft 916-753-8788  3Gig C C++ Everyone (1:203/955)

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 Msg  : 351 of 384
 From : Richard Yamagata                    1:203/955       .cê 04 .þí 95 00:34
 To   : Steven Wirsz
 Subj : B5 Ripoff: Ds9
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

SW> ST:TOS - Man will survive through resourcefulness
SW> ST:TNG - Socialist Utopias (The "enlightened" Federation) will save the

             universe SW> ST:DS9 -   ""

SW> ST:Voy -   ""

SW> B5     - Got two or three pages to spare??


Excellent summary!

---
 * Origin: Dynasoft 916-753-8788  3Gig C C++ Everyone (1:203/955)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 352 of 384
 From : Richard Yamagata                    1:203/955       .cê 04 .þí 95 00:40
 To   : Frank Eva
 Subj : B5 Catch-Up
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

FE> RY "You are right about this.  To make the point more
FE> RY poignant for my son, "where are the micro-machines?"
FE> Yes, that's the same thing. Is the series popular enough to warrant a
FE> line of B5 toys? With the threat of cancellation looming over the show,
FE> I don't think anyone will find this license a safe investment...

It is fortunate that dreams do take form and become reality.  Babylon 5 has been
renewed for season 3 and Micro-Machines have produced 4 sets of B5 models.  Of
course this is only fraction of the number of Trek Micro-Machines, but it is a
healthy start!  What I feared is that JMS would put a kabosh on the whole deal
with his view that marketing and fanchising can be demeaning -- one of the
messages found in one of the recent episodes.  I think this is a very good sign
that we will see all 5 years of Babylon 5.  Ry

---
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Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 353 of 384
 From : Richard Yamagata                    1:203/955       .cê 04 .þí 95 01:01
 To   : Brian Henderson
 Subj : B5 Ripoff: Ds9
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

BH> Go to any Toys-R-Us for the Micro Machines.  They are *VERY* nice (I have
BH> all four sets). And yes, JMS is very bothered by the way the Star Trek
BH> Marketing Machine works and has vowed to have B5 stand alone, not just BH>
BH> be a vehicle to sell action figures and toys. I admire someone who can stand
BH> up for their principles like that rather than sell out to the highest
BH> bidder.

I really appreciate this post.  I will head out there ASAP.  My son's birthday
is coming up an this will be perfect timing!  Considering the detail on the Trek
and Star Wars Micro Machines, I expect the B5 ones to be made with as much eye
to detail.

As for your words about JMS and marketing, we will have to see as Frand Eva
says.  If we see Lando dolls and B5 bears, we will know that someone has sold
out or lost control of the licensing.

BH> Well, considering that both UPN and WBN have dumped their entire
BH> programming lineup (except for Voyager and DS9, natch), I don't think

This is laughable.  So, you mean to tell me that VOYAGER Q&A did not save the
UPN line-up like they thought it would?  It shows that Trekkers are not as rabid
as Paramount was banking on them to be.

As for one show, Platypus Man, I liked that show and watched it when it came on
after Voyager.  Once they moved it a half hour a way, I did not follow it,
for I am a rabid Kelley fan and switche to CHICAGO HOPE.  Of course I do not
think it would matter now, considering I do not even watch Voyager regularly at
this period in time.

Thanks again for this post.  Ry

---
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Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 354 of 384
 From : Richard Yamagata                    1:203/955       .cê 04 .þí 95 01:04
 To   : Brian Henderson
 Subj : B5 Talk
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

BH> Screen Actor Guild rules demand that if the actor is in a certain number
BH> of episodes (I think it is 12, but am probably wrong), they BH> must be
BH> pictured in the opening credits.

Brian, What I want people to comment on is that Richard Biggs is not listed as a
headliner star.  It says "also starring."  I want him elevated to "Starring" an
to appear in as many episodes as possible.  Ry

---
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 Msg  : 355 of 384
 From : Chris Carter                        1:105/302.23    .cê 04 .þí 95 01:34
 To   : Jeff Hancock
 Subj : Vorlon Immortality
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 CC> Hot off the 'Lost Scenes' webpage at Hyperion,

 JH> Cool. Any more of these you could share?

I suppose.  But when will the right context come up in which to post
this stuff?  Should I just start posting lost scenes from B5 until I
run out?

 CC> "I've looked upon the face of a Vorlon, Laurel...and nothing's
 CC> the same anymore."

 JH> So they have faces, at least to human observers. Hmm.

But is the face referred to literal, (like the face of a corporeal
being) or the Doctor speaking in a more figurative sense?  I'm
inclined to believe that latter, myself.

 CC> Not exactly *revealing*, but at the very least, we know that
 CC> folks who see Kosh don't come away from the experience
 CC> unchanged.

 JH> Heck, we knew that from Delenn. <grin>

Oook!

 JH> I think they're going to see what they think of as God... how
 JH> JMS will show that so that the viewers will visualize that
 JH> without making it overobvious and/or cheesy, I dunno.

I certainly have no clue on this either.  But I don't underestimate
Straczynski's ability to do it well.

As long as Vorlons don't look like that thing at the center of the
galaxy from Star Trek 5, I'll be forgiving.

Chris - carter@teleport.com


--- cPoint v2.17/FreeWare
 * Origin: Carter's Conspicuous Consumption (1:105/302.23)

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 Msg  : 356 of 384
 From : Mark Jones                          1:105/302.47    .cê 04 .þí 95 02:56
 To   : Jeff Schlenker
 Subj : White Dwarf
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On (30 May 95) Jeff Schlenker wrote to Sean McCormick...

 JS> Well, I must admit that I just couldn't get into it.  After about 45
 JS> minutes, I shut the tape off.  I don't know, maybe I missed something,
 JS> but to me it was generally boring.

It wasn't just you.  It *was* incoherent, implausible and boring.

It looked to me like the writers thought that science fiction is
anything that involves a) other planets, b) weird gadgetry (like
"tissue gloves"), c) preposterous animals, and d) plots that are
incomprehensible (expecting the audience to simply go along with the
gag, like the emperor's new clothes).


... Power corrupts, and absolute power... is absolutely divine!

--- PPoint 1.78
 * Origin: HQ of World Domination, Inc. (1:105/302.47)

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 Msg  : 357 of 384
 From : Tony Trujillo                       1:280/9         .cê 04 .þí 95 02:57
 To   : Kay Shapero
 Subj : Re: Sliders Continuity
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE 1.11+

 KS>> ...lose the dog
 TT>>I wouldn't have even considered taking the dog with
 TT>>me when his barking gave away Wade's position
 KS> Ditto.

Dear Quinn and Company,
                         Hate you
                         Took the "slide" box
                         Find your own way back home
                                                    -- Henry

 KS> until I heard the show had been cancelled.

That's really going to put a crimp on the folks who were
trying to get a Fidonet SLIDERS echo going. That's one thing
about starting a echo based on a single television series is
that when it goes off the air you're stuck for conversation.
I have a fear that will happen to MST3K (the echo I
"moderate") but at least we get a season 7 (shortened season
however) and a movie that should be coming out sometime by
the end of this year.

All in all it should make for a interesting year for MST3K.


... Honest, Officer! The dwarf was on fire when I got here!
--- Via Silver Xpress V4.02B03 SW01177
 * Origin: South of the River - Overland Park KS - (913)642-7907 V.* (1:280/9)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 358 of 384
 From : Mark Jones                          1:105/302.47    .cê 04 .þí 95 03:05
 To   : Frank Eva
 Subj : Torres in Faces
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On (01 Jun 95) Frank Eva wrote to Mark Jones...

 MJ> The story about B'Lanna being split into her Klingon and Human
 MJ> halves is the sort of "technobabble" I can accept. The notion of
 MJ> splitting her into two separate beings is as unlikely as
 MJ> everything else they've done--but I was willing to grant the
 MJ> premise in order to see how the character dealt with the problem.
 FE>
 FE> Except that it had already been done before in ST:TOS' The Enemy
 FE> Within. To me, that is unacceptable...

It would have *been* acceptable (to me, anyhow, and possibly even to
you) if they had LEFT her that way.  If B'Lanna had been *permanently*
transformed into a mere human, her Klingon self dead dead dead...that
would have made it worthwhile.  We could have had many, many episodes
worth of angst.

She'd have had to recreate her identity from ashes.  How much of what
she had been was genetic, and how much environmental?  How much of the
traits she admires (in herself and in others) were *solely* the
product of her Klingon half, and which weaknesses?  And can she find
the resources in what's left to recreate those admirable qualities?
What previously unexpressed weaknesses would she suffer, now that the
Klingon persona was gone forever?

THIS would have been new ground.  Kirk was split in half, true--but
only temporarily.  B'Lanna could have been forced to live with the
transformation forever.  It would have been a great episode.

Instead, of course, they made sure she was completely restored to the
status quo by the next episode.  Blech!


... Ex Unu, Plurus (From One, Many) - This option looks better every day!

--- PPoint 1.78
 * Origin: HQ of World Domination, Inc. (1:105/302.47)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 359 of 384
 From : Mark Jones                          1:105/302.47    .cê 04 .þí 95 03:14
 To   : Pamela Crossett
 Subj : Earth 2 & HIGHLANDER
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On (01 Jun 95) Pamela Crossett wrote to Gloria Darcy...

 PC> I am looking forward to the season finale's second part tonight.
 PC> Although I bet we're left hanging somehow. (here's a nother reason to
 PC> hate Dallas - "who shot JR" really made everyone step up the series
 PC> cliff-hangers.

So was I, blast it.  But those unprintable ***-*******, *************
rat bastards at KATU, who only air it at 12:35 a.m. on Sunday morning
in the first place, preempted it this week for a *#%&#@(%(#
"Children's Miracle Network Telethon".

May they rot in hell.





...not that I'm at all bitter, mind you.


... Mail not found.  Begin whine/pout sequence? (Y/n)?_

--- PPoint 1.78
 * Origin: HQ of World Domination, Inc. (1:105/302.47)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 360 of 384
 From : Mark Jones                          1:105/302.47    .cê 04 .þí 95 03:19
 To   : Jeff Hancock
 Subj : ST: The Next Generation
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On (01 Jun 95) Jeff Hancock wrote to Mark Jones...

 JH> MJ>BZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZT!!!
 JH> MJ>Wrong--but thanks for playing!
 JH>
 JH> Wrong or not (and guess which one I'm picking), you do not have
 JH> to be so smartassed about it.

No offense intended.  Next time I'll add the :-) symbol.

 MJ> Neelix was perfectly capable of living for an indefinite period
 MJ> while in that stasis field, with the holo-lungs doing his
 MJ> breathing for
 JH>
 JH> Didn't the doctor state that that could not be done for an extended
 JH> period of time?

Uhhmmm...maybe he did.  Even so, completely editing B'Lanna's DNA was
only going to take a week, according to the holo-doc, so if Neelix
could last a week or so with holo-lungs...the story doesn't hold
water.

 JH> Admittedly it makes no sense, but their "advanced" form of that
 JH> machine wouldn't work for more than what, 48 hours? It may be a
 JH> step backward, but that's the way the writers set it up.

Which is why I find it silly.  When your advanced technology is less
capable than stone-age 20th century technology, something is wrong.
Since the doc is programmed (in his own words) with the full history
of Federation medicine, presumably he is aware of the 20th century
heart-lung machine...and could have had one replicated (or built by
the engineering staff).

 JH> What would make more sense is to put him into a transporter
 JH> buffer loop such as was done with Scotty.

I dunno.  To quote Larry Niven out of context, "*I* wouldn't ride in
the damn thing!"

Given the frequency with which Voyager is attacked or damaged
accidentally, and the power shortages...I don't think being stored in
RAM is particularly safe.  If they just cut to the chase and backed
him up on disk, that'd be something else again.


... Mac, this is Dana Scully.  Agent Scully, Duncan McLeod....

--- PPoint 1.78
 * Origin: HQ of World Domination, Inc. (1:105/302.47)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 361 of 384
 From : Starwolf                            1:163/214       .cê 04 .þí 95 03:22
 To   : Mark Jones
 Subj : B5 Baseball
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 MJ> bigger fans of baseball than of zen.  So when they had X cubic meters
 MJ> of space left over after building all the essential bits, they had a
 MJ> choice to make:  devote most of it to a baseball diamond, or a zen
 MJ> garden?
 MJ> The choice was obvious....


Yes.  Unfortunately, they managed to get it wrong anyway.



--- Maximus 2.01wb
 * Origin: Land of Ill Repute (1:163/214)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 362 of 384
 From : Richard Yamagata                    1:203/955       .cê 04 .þí 95 03:32
 To   : Brian Henderson
 Subj : Best Sf
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

BH> Well... he *IS*.  Don't get me wrong, I've known Harlan for a long time,
BH> a bad attitude is about the best you'll ever expect to get
BH> from him.  Sheesh, you want to see bad, try to see him at a SF convention
BH> sometime.  He sits around and badmouths the con, the people, his fans, you
BH> name it and then volunteers to come again next year.

This is the best characterization that I have read of Harlan Ellison in years!!!
Ry

---
 * Origin: Dynasoft 916-753-8788  3Gig C C++ Everyone (1:203/955)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 363 of 384
 From : Mark Jones                          1:105/302.47    .cê 04 .þí 95 03:32
 To   : Tom Robinson
 Subj : EARTH 2/SO LONG
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On (02 Jun 95) Tom Robinson wrote to Robert Lidgren...

 TR>      I remember tuning out the "who's the leader" thread months ago
 TR> after they tried to leave Julia behind.  What a crock that was.

   It was actually the first intelligent thing they'd ever done since
they landed on that stupid planet.  Naturally, they changed what
passes for their minds in the next episode.

 TR>      I don't mean to be bitter about this, but I'm tired of people
 TR> trying to pick E2 apart like a bunch of scavengers.  There was nothing
 TR> wrong with the show as it was.  The characters were fully realized,
 TR> the sicence/society was well thought out, and the story development
 TR> was far more interesting than B5 could ever hope to be.

   The characters were fools, the "science" was laughable and the
society was preposterous.  This show was tripe of the worst kind.

   This is all just my opinion, of course.

   Up to now, I've held my tongue while you folks lamented the demise
of Earth2.  I had absolutely no use for the show, but I'd already
taken my shots at it months ago and gloating over its corpse didn't
seem like a very productive thing to do.  Just because I didn't like
it didn't mean it wouldn't be missed.
   But if you're going to bitch about the criticisms, I'll feel free
to respond.


... Waco:  proof that Janet Reno approves of children smoking....

--- PPoint 1.78
 * Origin: HQ of World Domination, Inc. (1:105/302.47)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 364 of 384
 From : Richard Yamagata                    1:203/955       .cê 04 .þí 95 03:35
 To   : Frank Eva
 Subj : Babylon 5 (PTEN)
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
* In a message originally to Brian Henderson, Frank Eva said:

FE> BH>You said at the end that "unfortunately, B5 is not like Star Trek".
FE> BH>There is nothing unfortunate about it.  It is not supposed to be like
FE> BH>Star Trek, and if it was, I certainly wouldn't watch it.

FE> I think what Richard meant was that B5 is not as accepted as
FE> Star Trek; therefore, it's future is always going to be tenuous...

Thank you Frank for making it clear what I meant; it is unfortunate that B5 does
not share in the "sure thing" mentality that Voyager seems to enjoy. I mean, I
have not heard of any of the B5 cast going out and buying a condo in Malibu or a
Porsche, like I heard some of the Voyager Cast did when they had their contract
in hand. Ry

---
 * Origin: Dynasoft 916-753-8788  3Gig C C++ Everyone (1:203/955)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 365 of 384
 From : Rumble                              1:163/436       .cê 04 .þí 95 09:48
 To   : All
 Subj : I saw the missing Earth 2 Episode!!!
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
I saw the missing Earth 2 episode! It was pretty good. Dansiger and Bess were
sprayed by some pollen and it controlled them and made them walk up north to
deposit it in a big hole, you know just like bees move frome flower to flower. I
should have taped it for you guys but I remebered when I was half way through
it!

--- Maximus 2.02
 * Origin: Coven's Den (613)746-3584 = 650+ Echoes & 4.3+ Gigs (1:163/436)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 366 of 384
 From : Gary Tincher                        1:372/57        .cê 04 .þí 95 12:02
 To   : Frank Eva
 Subj : B5 RERUNS???
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 -=> Quoting Frank Eva to All <=-

 FE> Does anyone know what happened to the last 5 episodes in this season's
 FE> schedule? (The Long Twilight Struggle, Divided Loyalties, Comes the
 FE> Inquisitor, The Price of Peace, and The Fall of Night (season
 FE> finale)).  We've had reruns 3 weeks in a row!

They won't be shown until the end of the year.. like october. to run into
the new season 3 if there is one..

                                Gary



... "There can be only One!" Connor McCloud.   'Highlander'
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

--- QScan/PCB v1.17b / 01-0389
 * Origin: Dazed & Confused BBS - 8 Nodes/24 CD's - 803-873-5797 (1:372/57)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 367 of 384
 From : Gary Tincher                        1:372/57        .cê 04 .þí 95 12:02
 To   : Earl Green
 Subj : Fox facts
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Any news on B5 or Kung Fu.?


                                Gary





... I am Barney of Borg. Being assimilated is fun!
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

--- QScan/PCB v1.17b / 01-0389
 * Origin: Dazed & Confused BBS - 8 Nodes/24 CD's - 803-873-5797 (1:372/57)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 368 of 384
 From : Nicolai Shapero                     1:102/524       .cê 04 .þí 95 12:33
 To   : Jeff Schlenker
 Subj : Re: Star Trek
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <May 30 23:47>, Jeff Schlenker (1:288/19) wrote to Chip Garner:

 JS>*===============================================================*
 JS>*  Jeffrey A. Schlenker                >>>Internet<<<           *
 JS>*  Hazel, South Dakota           jeff.schlenker@lake-city.com   *
 JS>*===============================================================*

 JS>... Thinking quickly, Spock opens a can of peas with his ears
 JS> ___ TagDude 0.87 [Unregistered] --- --- < Sig-It > v3.00 by Brandon S. Bell

 JS>--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12

Multi-line signatures like the above are quite common on the Internet.  In
Fidonet, however, where the communications cost is born by individuals more
frequently than by large corporations, they are frowned upon.  In this
conference, which I moderate, they are outlawed.  Please cut the signature down
to a maximum of one line.

Thank you for your cooperation,

-- Nicolai Shapero, Moderator of the SFFAN echo


--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 369 of 384
 From : Keith Stokes                        1:280/9         .cê 04 .þí 95 12:41
 To   : Jeff Ewart
 Subj : WorldCon in LA/96
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE 1.11+
Quoting a message from Jeff Ewart to All:

 JE> I'm planning to going to LA for the '96 WorldCon and was
 JE> wondering if anybody had suggestions on what else to do
 JE> while there (guest juror at the O.J. Simpson trial). Should
 JE> be an awesome tour as we plan on flying to Vegas and
 JE> driving to LA via the Grand Canyon. Hopefully California
 JE> will not have fallen into the ocean by then.

The more obvious sights include Disney World, Martha's Vineyard, the
LA Club's Clubhouse, the movie studeos and Forry Ackerman's home.

See you there!

 Keith
 KC 2K
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 * Origin: South of the River - Overland Park KS - (913)642-7907 V.* (1:280/9)

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 Msg  : 370 of 384
 From : Frank Eva                           1:154/750       .cê 04 .þí 95 13:12
 To   : Todd Sullivan
 Subj : B5 COMIC
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: FastEcho 1.42.bA 8060

TS>To  paraphrase Heinlein's comments, "You have to be entertaining.
TS>Art for art's ske pays no bills."
TS>DC knows (or think they do) what B-5 is all about, and the fact the
TS>comic sells means that they're not that far off.

All well and good, but I won't be buying another issue because the
comics don't reveal enough new information for me...

--- CMPQwk 1.42-R2 #145 ---
Confuse the world... smile all day Monday!

---
 * Origin: *YOPS ]I[* 3.1 GIG * RA/FD/FE RADist * Milwaukee, WI (1:154/750)

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 Msg  : 371 of 384
 From : Frank Eva                           1:154/750       .cê 04 .þí 95 13:12
 To   : Kay Shapero
 Subj : Confessions & Lamentation
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: FastEcho 1.42.bA 8060

KS> FE>like MedLab, Sheridan said... "I can't let you out". If the
KS> FE>disease truly was "airborn", why would it have made any
KS> FE>difference  to let Delenn and Lennier out, since EVERYONE had
KS> FE>already been exposed?

KS>There are degrees of exposure, and theirs would certainly have been
KS>higher.  However I suspect the real reason would be political -
KS>everybody on the station was afraid of catching it too and they'd be
KS>in serious danger if they left again before there was a cure,
KS>evidence they were not suceptable, or both.

Good point!

KS> FE>2. Now that the Markabs have been totally wiped out, we viewers
KS> FE>are deprived of what seemed to be a very interesting race of
KS> FE>aliens.

KS>And the Babylon 5 universe of one more slant of view on the universe.
KS>A big loss all around.  You'll note that that news announcer said
KS>that there were probably surviving individuals in remote places, but
KS>the Markab civilization was dead; maybe some of these survivors will
KS>pop up later.

Yeah, that was kind of the gist of the last comment in my post, that
somehow JMS could discover an isolated colony of Markabs... if he wants
to bring them back...

---
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 Msg  : 372 of 384
 From : Frank Eva                           1:154/750       .cê 04 .þí 95 13:12
 To   : Nicolai Shapero
 Subj : Harlan Ellison
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: FastEcho 1.42.bA 8060

NS>He was, in theory, working on a sequel to the Outer Limits episode,
NS>"DEMON WITH A GLASS HAND" entitled "DEMON ON THE RUN" for B5.  But I
NS>haven't heard anything about this lately (no news is good news?)

Or, he could just be stalling, like he did when he wrote City on the
Edge of Forever. Of course, you can't rush an artiste! :-)

--- CMPQwk 1.42-R2 #145 ---
My ship just came in.  It was the Kobiyashi Maru.

---
 * Origin: *YOPS ]I[* 3.1 GIG * RA/FD/FE RADist * Milwaukee, WI (1:154/750)

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 Msg  : 373 of 384
 From : Frank Eva                           1:154/750       .cê 04 .þí 95 13:12
 To   : Kay Shapero
 Subj : Knives
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: FastEcho 1.42.bA 8060

KS>By the very nature of things, we don't know for sure just how much of
KS>the story arc is really effected by an episode.  Both of the above

Anyone who knows the main storylines in the arc would not agree with
this comment... and I'm afraid I'm one of them! :-)

KS>involve strong character focus, and changes to the environment as a
KS>whole be it the political repercussions of Londo's live opera plot in
KS>Knives, or the loss of an entire civilization in "Confessions".  The
KS>effects THIS could have are many and varied.

Sure, you need this kind of stuff in a series, I don't deny that. Star
Trek proved that you can't have a successful sci-fi on TV without good
character development. I simply wish they could come up with a decent
balance between character development and story arc development in each
episode. That would make the series more interesting to me...

---
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 Msg  : 374 of 384
 From : Frank Eva                           1:154/750       .cê 04 .þí 95 13:12
 To   : David Johnston
 Subj : Voyager Nose Diving?
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: FastEcho 1.42.bA 8060

DJ>So, you don't like Paris and Kim?

Not particularly... But not enough to stop watching. I am also not
enamored with Torres, Tuvok, Janeway, Kes, and Neelix, either...

---
 * Origin: *YOPS ]I[* 3.1 GIG * RA/FD/FE RADist * Milwaukee, WI (1:154/750)

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 Msg  : 375 of 384
 From : Frank Glover                        1:2613/477      .cê 04 .þí 95 14:10
 To   : J.T. Smith
 Subj : Re: ST: VOYAGER SURVIVES
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

JS>   SW> Star Trek Voyager's Q&A should have had this question :
JS>   SW> Why did is their backbone story Ideas stolen from Red Dwarf?
JS>   SW> A Ship 3 million light years from home.
JS>   SW> A Hologramatic crew member.
JS>   SW> Short cuts are constanty provided and fail.
JS>   SW> And the cheaky reference when they went by a Red Dwarf.
JS>
JS>   Them passing by a red dwarf is nae uncommon.  As for the others, I
JS>  think ye
JS>   may be reading a wee bit much into it.

   Agreed. Trek long ago established the possibility of self-aware holographic
characters (*too* often, if anything), Voyager is only 70k light years from
Federation known space (3 million would not only be outside the galaxy, but even
past Andromeda), and red dwarf (note the lower case) stars are more common in
the universe than any other stellar type. (Astronomy magazine, April 1991, p.
31, for those who wish to check me out) So in any particular direction, your
chances of passing relatively near one are pretty good....


   And since getting home in a practical period of time is Voyager's problem,
and the series as we know it would end if they succeeded (though I don't see why
we couldn't follow the further adventures of the USS Voyager if they did...), we
can expect to see a number of stories with potential shortcuts home that fail.
(After all, an unintentional shortcut *put* them there, and DS9 advenntures are
based on their proximity to a stable wormhole to another otherwise inaccessable
part of the galaxy....

   Frank


--- QuickBBS 2.80 GoldBase (Zeta-1)
 * Origin: The Matrix Data Bank BBS, Rochester, Ny (1:2613/477)

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 Msg  : 376 of 384
 From : Michael Vergara                     1:2605/631      .cê 04 .þí 95 18:22
 To   : Tom Robinson
 Subj : Earth 2
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE 1.11+
Said Tom Robinson to Robert Lidgren about EARTH 2/SO LONG:

 TR> I don't mean to be bitter about this, but I'm tired of people
 TR> trying to pick E2 apart like a bunch of scavengers.  There was nothing
 TR> wrong with the show as it was.  The characters were fully realized,

I sometimes think that there was a problem with the _people_ who watch the show
(or try to) and not the show itself.  To follow the plot, the show had to be
watched from show to show continuously, and if you missed one, you had to pray
for one of the few times they'd rerun an episode.  Alot of the people I know
just didn't want to commit themselves to watching it during Earth 2's time slot
(because of all of the reschedualing the show had to endure) or didn't like the
idea of having to watch EVERY episode EVERY week, and watching it the WHOLE way
through.  If you didn't, you'd miss an important part of the underlying plot, a
clue to one of the mysteries, or a scene which develops one of the characters
(like the episode where they leave Julia behind -- that shocked me, considering
she was their only doctor on an alien planet).

Of course, most of the people I know that didn't like the show are the
channel-surfing type who switch from show to show every 12 seconds and have an
attention span of zilch.

After this last episode (the series finally), I hope NBC re-runs the series
during the summer so I can get a last glimpse of Earth 2 before it bites the
dust.


... Sexist?  Why some of my best friends are Bimbos!
--- Blue Wave/TAG v2.12 [NR]
 * Origin: The MindScape BBS (1:2605/631)

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 Msg  : 377 of 384
 From : Keith Stokes                        1:280/9         .cê 04 .þí 95 20:44
 To   : Jeff Ewart
 Subj : WorldCon in LA/96
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE 1.11+
Awk!!!!!!

My reply should have included Disney Land not World and Knot's Berry Farm not
Martha's Vineyard.

I must stop posting when I am sober!

CBIP 226/309 in Emma Bull's WAR FOR THE OAKS.

 Keith

---
 * Origin: South of the River - Overland Park KS - (913)642-7907 V.* (1:280/9)

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 Msg  : 378 of 384
 From : Kay Shapero                         1:102/524       .cê 04 .þí 95 21:39
 To   : Frank Eva
 Subj : B5 RERUNS???
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Jun 02 07:48>, Frank Eva (1:154/750) wrote to All:

 FE>Does anyone know what happened to the last 5 episodes in this
 FE>season's schedule? (The Long Twilight Struggle, Divided Loyalties,
 FE>Comes the Inquisitor, The Price of Peace, and The Fall of Night (season
 FE>finale)). We've had reruns 3 weeks in a row!

There seem to be 4, not 5; not sure of the titles.  And I'm afraid you'll have a
lot more reruns - evidently the new episodes are being held until October.
Here's what JMS had to say on the subject in an interview on Delphi:

.CompuJohn>
  Are the rumors true that the last 4 episodes of season 2 won't be
  shown in the US until October ?

STRACZYNSKI>
  Yes, they are correct.  Ain't my decision.  The Powers That Be
  figure that if they hold off the last 4, they can use them to lead
  up to the start of the (hopefully) new season in November, and get
  us off to a good start.  They say that HUTS (Households Using TV)
  figures are very low for June, July and August, since everybody's out.
  In September, you're right up against the new blockbuster network
  shows, and their PR machine, so that leaves October.  My opinion...
  ...is my opinion.  ga   (I can chew glass too when required.)


--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

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 Msg  : 379 of 384
 From : Kay Shapero                         1:102/524       .cê 04 .þí 95 21:50
 To   : Frank Eva
 Subj : B5 RERUNS???
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Just checked - the four episodes yet to be aired this season are:
"Divided Loyalties"
"The Long, Twilight Struggle"
"Comes the Inquisitor"
"The Fall of Night"

--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

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 Msg  : 380 of 384
 From : Derek Wakefield                     1:393/7         .cê 04 .þí 95 22:15
 To   : Karmin St.jean
 Subj : Re: Star Blazers
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On Wed 24-May-1995 10:40 , Karmin St.jean said to Chris Baugh:

KS> The original name of the series was Space Cruiser Yamato, but the ship was
KS> renamed the Argo in Star Blazers. There were three series created, only
KS> two of which "Quest for Iscandar" and "Battle Against the Comet Empire"
KS> were ever shown on American TV. The third series, "The Bolar Wars" is
KS> available but was not aired (at least not in wide syndication like the
KS> other two.)

Star Blazers 3 (The Bolar Wars) was aired on Ch-66 in Chicago back in the 84-85
timeframe.  It was offered for syndication, but very few stations picked it up
because of the original "barter" oriented licencing system used by Claster TV
when the first two series were originally distributed in 79.  It is also
practically an uncut version of the original Yamato III series.  Therefore, in
light of the violent nature, and the "religious war" subplots involved, this
probably caused a number of local stations to pass on it.  There were also a lot
of Japanime shows hitting the airwaves during this period of time; such as
Voltron, Robotech, Captain Harlock and the Queen of a Thousand Years, etc.  This
caused local stations to be a bit leary of picking up yet another one.

Derek (/\).


--- CNet/3
 * Origin: The Bard's Tavern Denton, TX (817)243-5110 USR 28.8   (1:393/7)

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 Msg  : 381 of 384
 From : Pamela Crossett                     1:325/118       .cê 04 .þí 95 22:40
 To   : Mark Jones
 Subj : HighLander, The Series
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 MJ> It looks to *me* like the "big changes" will consist of someone
 MJ> letting the immortal cat out of the watchers' bag.

 MJ> Consider Duncan MacLeod, for instance.

 MJ> If the French government were to begin checking out reports of
 MJ> headless bodies found around France and comparing them to Duncan's
 MJ> file...well, they'd find a very hard-to-shrug-off correlation.  He
 MJ> might have some explaining to do.

Well, you've made a very good point, although my take on the finale was
that Kallas' computer was destroyed BEFORE it sent out the faxes to all
newspapers (etc.). But, it certainly would make things a bit hairier.

Or maybe too hairy?????

You know, up until I got your post, I was satisfied with the finale as not
leaving me hanging. Now I'm cursing & moaning, and of course anxiously &
impatiently awaiting next season. So I don't know whether to bless you and
damn you   :-(   :-)   ????   But thanks for the fresh point of view.

I hope that they renew contracts Jack is talking about and there is a
season 5. This is one of my top three shows and I will be disappointed to
see it end. There is so little good stuff on the tube these days, and I
hate to let go of anything with this much potential.

I feel there is a lot of ground yet to cover. I greatly admire Gregory
Weiden's conception of the characters and would like to know more. Do you
have any idea of where I could "read more about it?"

Good hearing from you, and thanks for writing.

Pam

___
 This copy of Freddie 1.2.5 is being evaluated.

--- Maximus/2 2.02
 * Origin: The Ozone Layer, Williston, VT. (802) 862-5058 (1:325/118)

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 Msg  : 382 of 384
 From : Nicolai Shapero                     1:102/524       .îí 05 .þí 95 04:52
 To   : Frank Eva
 Subj : B5 RERUNS???
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Jun 02 07:48>, Frank Eva (1:154/750) wrote to All:

 FE>Does anyone know what happened to the last 5 episodes in this
 FE>season's
 FE>schedule?

As I understand it, they will be broadcast in October or November.

-- Nicolai Shapero, the Mad Russian Sysop of StormGate Aerie

--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

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 Msg  : 383 of 384
 From : Nicolai Shapero                     1:102/524       .îí 05 .þí 95 05:09
 To   : ROBERT LIDGREN
 Subj : LOCALE?
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Jun 02 19:06>, ROBERT LIDGREN (1:134/10) wrote to NICOLAI SHAPERO:

 RL>By the way, from what city do you hail?

San Mateo, originally.  Currently hanging my hat in the Desolation of Smog (Los
Angeles, California, USA).

 RL>Where is Stormgate Aerie located?  That's one of the puzzles of
 RL>the Internet

FidoNet, not Internet.

Cheers,

-- Nicolai Shapero, the Mad Russian Sysop of StormGate Aerie

--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

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 Msg  : 384 of 384
 From : Andrew Boudreaux                    1:396/82        .îí 05 .þí 95 13:55
 To   : All
 Subj : Tommy is better...
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: FastEcho 1.41/g 7992
   The results are in and Tommy is approved to stand up, work at his regular
job(s)and will be cleared soon to have sex(with a partner).
   This sickness has effected his brain.  He can not function for setting a
meeting date yet.  From time to time he forgets where he parked his hard drive.
Now he can get lost on a road trip to visit CoCo users out of town.
   So everyone try to be nice to Tommy while he is recoverring from this
terrible illness.  If he breaks off and starts talking about anything in the
middle of a conversation, just go along with it. Tina said that this thought
process works great because the minute he starts talking about sex she can
change the subject to the weather.  How Crule can someone be.
=+= Captain Andy - King of the low blows =+=
---
 * Origin: The New Node 3 ¨ 504-391-2929 ¨ WINNT 3.5  ¨ ZyXEL 19.2 (1:396/82)

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 Msg  : 1 of 322
 From : Sean McCormick                      1:226/1330      .pä 31 .àé 95 15:32
 To   : All
 Subj : MAIL
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Hello everyone.The BBS crashed on 5/16 and it just got up today.Sorry to anyone
with late mail.
    Sean McCormick
---
 þ MegaMail 2.10 #0:Ho ho ho gotta go gotta go!

 * Origin: The Lore Board - Mt. Vernon, Ohio - 1:226/1330 (1:226/1330)

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 Msg  : 2 of 322
 From : Sean McCormick                      1:226/1330      .pä 31 .àé 95 15:32
 To   : Mark Jones
 Subj : SLIDERS SEASON FINALE
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
¦MJ> Quinn could be seriously injured--but will ultimately pull through     ¦
¦MJ> (though they'll have some explaining to do in a world anything like    ¦
¦MJ> ours, where the authorities always want to question gunshot victims).  ¦

ÔÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍ¾
     Of course he will,despite the fact he took a shot in the back and they're
in a dimension that could be totally backwards...
        Sean McCormick
---
 þ MegaMail 2.10 #0:Ho ho ho gotta go gotta go!

 * Origin: The Lore Board - Mt. Vernon, Ohio - 1:226/1330 (1:226/1330)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 3 of 322
 From : Sean McCormick                      1:226/1330      .pä 31 .àé 95 18:38
 To   : Morten M.nsson
 Subj : X-FILES konference??
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
¦MM> Can anybody please confirm, or the opposite ;-(, the rumour about,     ¦
¦MM> there being a seperate X-Files konference called - plainly: X-FILES ?? ¦

ÔÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍ¾
   There is an X-Files conference.It's been on the back bone for aboput a month
I think.
    Sean McCormick
---
 þ MegaMail 2.10 #0:Ho ho ho gotta go gotta go!


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Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 4 of 322
 From : Jack Butler                         1:363/309       .óá 03 .þí 95 05:57
 To   : Marc Zingarelli
 Subj : Highlander Scedule
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 Quoth Marc Zingarelli, "Nevermore".

 JB>     BTW, the latest word is that Annie will be returning for at least a
 JB>couple of eps in season 4.

 MZ> On her return all I can say is I am vindicated.  Remember if they're
 MZ> still in t show.

     Hmm... part of this got lost, but I am assuming it says "If they're
still in the credits, they're still in the show."  This is true, and was
the first clue *I* (and apparently you too) had that she wasn't quite as
gone as some persons would have preferred.

     Jack Butler
     Highlander Guru


... "Let's try this again, boy.  More friendly like." -- Mako
--- FMail 0.98a
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 Msg  : 5 of 322
 From : Dan Kachoogian                      1:107/953       .óá 03 .þí 95 09:09
 To   : All
 Subj : Garden State Science Fiction Conspiracy Update
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Well, here's an update on The Garden State Science Fiction Conspiracy:

  We've been meeting for over 3 months now and have had a meeting every
Thursday at 7 PM at Jahn's. Once, so far, we have had our meeting
elsewhere. Noone has a problem with Jahns (unless they order seafood,
which should be a general rule of thumb... avoid seafood in diners in
NJ), but we do want to branch out every once in a while. Tonight I may
discuss having a regular schedule of meetings in places other than Jahn's
(like every 3rd Thursday or something).
  The general focus of the club remains at any and all f&sf relevant, or
irrelevant, topics. Our largest meeting so far included 14 people,
however, if everyone decided to show up at once, it'd be easily over 2
dozen.
  Noone seems to have had any personality conflicts so far, which is
great. (although 2 of our attendees were smokers, which dismayed a few
people, I plan on bringing that issue to light should it arise again.
My personal feelings are that the dining area where the club meets are
non-smoking..)
  Last week, we had a new waitress, who said she switched shifts so
she could help wait our table... she's into vampires big time and wanted
to hang out with us a little bit. ("Of COURSE I know who you guys are...
I've been looking forward to your club meeting all week..")
  Interest from people who haven't attended yet seems to have dropped
off a bit. That's probably my fault. I need to put up more flyers and
send out more advertisements... and then the phone will start ringing
again.
  I've also had a few feelers from fans who are a bit younger.. however
I think the group is a bit older than the high-school age crowd, but I
do not intend to enforce any kind of restrictions.. As long as they can
handle their own dinner and check, they're welcome.
  Well, that's it for me. Pardon the rambling wording, I'm hopped up on
allergy medicine. :-)

         Speaking for the Garden State Science Fiction Conspiracy,
         I bid thee well...

                         Dan Kachoogian
                         Dan.Kachoogian%Juicebar@CJBBS.COM

                         GSSFC@CJBBS.COM

                                                       -Dan

---
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Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 6 of 322
 From : Ecarey                              1:101/230       .óá 03 .þí 95 12:04
 To   : Cmcdonough
 Subj : ST: VOYAGER SURVIVES
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
CM>SW> > I Know that Voyager was not a direct rip off of Red Dwarf but it
CM>SW> > is too close in some of its core properties that it seems just a
CM>SW> > copy and we do not need this kind of Science Fiction.

CM>EC>Have you ever read the Odyssey?

CM>EC>This is NOT an irrelevent question.

CM>Also, brownie points to those who can identify a movie considered
CM>"classic" in SF that boldly/blatantly stole the plot from Shakespear's
CM>*THE TEMPEST*.

Oh, that's too easy.  Has anyone here not seen FORBIDDEN PLANET a
hundred times?

 * OLX 2.1 TD * Chicken heads are the chief food of captive alligators.

--- FLAME v1.0
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 Msg  : 7 of 322
 From : ROBERT LIDGREN                      1:134/10        .óá 03 .þí 95 21:36
 To   : SEAN CASZATT
 Subj : ROSWELL INFO?
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
-> The movie ROSWELL was a Showtime movie.  It's recently been released on
-> videotape.
->
-> It's a good movie that doesn't go "off the deep end".  It presents the case
-> in a fairly level-headed manner.  The acting is quite good.

Thanks for the info and the tip Sean!
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Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 8 of 322
 From : ROBERT LIDGREN                      1:134/10        .óá 03 .þí 95 21:41
 To   : FRANK EVA
 Subj : X-FILES LIST WANTED
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
-> miss Earth 2, or VR5 that much, I was really shocked when I heard Sliders
-> had been axed. Oh well, there are a few new sci-fi shows in the wings, and I
-> hope they will be even more entertaining than Sliders. I

Yes, I was amazed they would yank Sliders.  This decision doesn't make any
sense at all.  I'll challenge ANYONE to provide good reasons for such a move.
I mean, do re-runs of Roseanne really make more sense???

-> RL>One of the problems with the Internet is that I never seem to know
-> RL>what city people are writing from.  I live in Calgary, Alberta,
-> RL>Canada.  From where do you hail?
->
-> Milwaukee, Wisconsin USA!

Well thankyou very much!  Now I can place a pin on my map for Milwaukee!
Faceless and place-less is a pain.  Now at least I have a place to ponder.
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 Msg  : 9 of 322
 From : ROBERT LIDGREN                      1:134/10        .óá 03 .þí 95 21:43
 To   : FRANK EVA
 Subj : PART3/X-FILES EPISODES
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
-> I now have all of my taped episodes identified! Thanks very much for the
-> effort!

Well this is a FIRST!  I had posted the X-Files FAQ and episodes and your
message is the only one I've read that indicated it went beyond my finger tips.

Cheers,

Robert Lidgren

-------------------------------
robert.lidgren@bbs.logicnet.com
-------------------------------
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Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 10 of 322
 From : ROBERT LIDGREN                      1:134/10        .óá 03 .þí 95 21:54
 To   : JACK BUTLER
 Subj : HARLAN ELLISON
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
->    Do you really think that all Ellison does all day is work on one thing?
-> He himself has stated that he has about nine different jobs running all at
-> once right now.  Novels, short stories, scripts, his comic book, lectures,
-> his appearances on Sci-Fi Buzz, the "Harlan Ellison's Watching" column, and
-> whatever it is he is doing for Babylon 5 when he is not writing "Demon On
-> The Run".

Yeh, he does have a lot on the go.  I also remember his account of what
happened the day of the California earthquake.  There was a fair bit of broken
glass and he and his wife, Susan Ellison, had to scramble out of the house over
books that were about one meter deep most of the place.  "Ellison Wonderland"
must have thousands of books.

I enjoy his fiction but I think I enjoy his columns and social commentary just
as much.  His books are damn hard to find in bookstores very often but I have
managed to compile a fairly complete collection.

By the way, after a letter I wrote to him on a column in Asimov's Science
Fiction about crazy fans he actually called me.  I was out in the alley at the
time.  My son said:  Hey, Dad, "Harlan Ellison called," when I returned.  I
managed to track down his number in Sherman Oaks and returned the call.  It was
a delightful conversation, if brief (he said he was "on deadline" and couldn't
chat long).  The point is that he is approachable, not a madman from hell, and
his humorous epigrams during the call "confirmed" I wasn't talking to an
imposter.  By the way, Susan Ellison edits "Rabbit Hole," the official
publication of HERC and she has always been kind to me in correspondence.  I
think he's found someone exceptional in Susan.

Cheers,

Robert Lidgren
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Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 11 of 322
 From : ROBERT LIDGREN                      1:134/10        .óá 03 .þí 95 21:58
 To   : TOM ROBINSON
 Subj : EARTH 2/SO LONG
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
->    Again, we differ.
->
->    Sci-fi should act as an echo of the fears of the day.  In this
-> sense it was the idea that - try as you may - you can't outrun the reach of
-> the state.  And the many ways in which they attempted to sabotage the
-> mission acted as a perfect example.

I don't really see that we "differ" that much.  I think your points are
supported.

Besides, I enjoy communicating with people who see things differently than I
do.  If everyone agreed with me all the time I don't imagine I'd last more than
15 minutes before having to run screaming into the street.

"Differences" help all of us re-ecvaluate pour opinions and change them when it
makes sense.
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Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 12 of 322
 From : ROBERT LIDGREN                      1:134/10        .óá 03 .þí 95 22:07
 To   : TOM ROBINSON
 Subj : EARTH 2/SO LONG
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
-> > I wonder if the series failed, in part, because not one of the characters
-> > was
-> > exceptionally strong.  A powerful Matriarch or Patriarch figure sometimes

->    Huh?  Robert.  What show were you watching?
->
->    Devon WAS a strong character.  The Eden project was essentially
-> created by her.  And she continued to fight to keep that dream going
-> throughout the entire season.

I was watching the same show you did.  I don't think Devon or anyone else was
"exceptionally strong" and that was the crux of my statement.  My pont simple
was that I posed an hypothesis that maybe having no one VERY STRONG leader

->    I don't mean to be bitter about this, but I'm tired of people
-> trying to pick E2 apart like a bunch of scavengers.  There was nothing wrong
-> with the show as it was.  The characters were fully realized, the
-> sicence/society was well thought out, and the story development was far more
-> interesting than B5 could ever hope to be.   Its biggest

Well, you err STRONGLY if you think my messages were EVER intended to "PICK
APART" Earth 2.  I liked the show, posted several messages saying that it
disappointed me that it was cancelled and have tried to figure out why it was
cancelled.  My musings on this are meant as a monologue where I try to assess
what went wrong.  This is ESPECIALLY TRUE because I think the series NEEDED A
SECOND SEASON.

Because we discuss flaws in a series has NOTHING WHATEVER to do (necessarily)
with our position on its cancellation.  Besides, ANY IDIOT CAN CRITICIZE AND
CUT TO SHREDS A SERIES, MOVIE OR BOOK .  What I try to do is
look for the good and the bad and encourage improvement.
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Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 13 of 322
 From : ROBERT LIDGREN                      1:134/10        .óá 03 .þí 95 22:19
 To   : STEVEN WESEN
 Subj : EARTH 2/SO LONG
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
-> I'm not to old but I remember reading the Tom Swift books and Asimov's and
-> Bradbury's Space Cadet books and now people read when they have to. A good
-> story line I thought of is showing the trend of Illiteratecy in a context of
-> Graphic User Interfaces on computers replacing the printed word and watching
-> the results on the future.

Rememebr, it's only something like 10% of the population who read novels.
That's a scary statistic but it's accurate as far as I know.  If you DON'T READ
SCIENCE FICTION you haven't a clue about what the possibilities might be for a
science fiction film or TV series.

You obviously are a reader and know how the printed word opens up worlds to us
that really enrich life.  I think "the dumming of America" is more than just a
catch phrase.  There does seem to be a REAL move away from respect for book
learning.  Geez, you simply can't understand the complexities of the Bosnia
situation from the nightly news or CNN.  Newspapers, magazines and books MUST
BE read to get a more complete picture.  In the same way, how can people REALLY

-> What we have is a nation of  Video minede Science Fiction fans who will
-> never know the wonder of reading clasic because they see butchered twisted
-> versions of them on Video.

Video-minded science fiction fans...good term.

By the way, I don't condemn anyone or put myself on a pedestal.  Feeling
superior and lam-basting others is for idiots and the self-righteous!  I just
feel sad that so many people never get to enjoy OTHER riches by exploring the
written word more.

Cheers,

Robert Lidgren
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Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 14 of 322
 From : ROBERT LIDGREN                      1:134/10        .óá 03 .þí 95 22:23
 To   : PAMELA CROSSETT
 Subj : HIGHLANDER, THE SERIES
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Hi there!

I just read your message to Gloria Darcy re:  Highlander:  The Series.
This IS a special series and seems to be watched by a relatively small elite.

Have you noticed the dictinct similarities between Sean Connery's voice and the
lead in the series, Adrian Paul?

The story lines always have me guessing and I really enjoy the character
development.  It is a real gem.

Cheer,
Robert Lidgren
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Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 15 of 322
 From : ROBERT LIDGREN                      1:134/10        .óá 03 .þí 95 22:28
 To   : EVAN MALIK
 Subj : EARTH 2/SO LONG
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
-> stupid way ratings are taken now.  The only way to accuratly determine
-> viewer ship is to hook a box to EVERYONES TV and see who is really watching
-> what.  I remember reading that a few months after NBC cancelled Star Trek
-> for the last time, the ratings were redone and -surprise- it showed Star
-> Trek was the #1 rated show for the demographics NBC was after.  Who's to say
-> the current system
-> is any more accurate?  Have you ever seen an election where poll after poll

Gee, it doesn't take a rocket scientist (if I may be allowed to beat a cliche
to death) to figure out the current ratings system needs one hell of a lot more
than "fine tuning."  Your message was well constructed.  I wish more people
would heave a heavy brick through the Neilsen Ratings System like you have.

Bravo!!  Everyone should read you original message!
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Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 16 of 322
 From : ROBERT LIDGREN                      1:134/10        .óá 03 .þí 95 22:33
 To   : ALL
 Subj : OPEN INVITATION
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Recently I posted X-Files materials I picked up on the WWW.  Many of you seemed
to enjoy them.

If you would like to see FAQs and Episode Guides for other Science Fiction
series posted here, let me know wh\ich ones you'd like to see and I'll try to
track them down.

Cheers,

Robert Lidgren

--------------------------------
robert.lidgren@bbs.logicnet.com
--------------------------------
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Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 17 of 322
 From : ROBERT LIDGREN                      1:134/10        .óá 03 .þí 95 22:39
 To   : SEAN CASZATT
 Subj : ROSWELL INFO?
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Hi, again, Sean!

Thanks for the information.  I'll certainly track down ROSWELL!  I have usually
enjoyed Kyle's work too.  My only difference of opinion comes when people try
to force me to believe BLUE VELVET was a "classic."  It left me cold.
Knife-kill and victimization films have been dumped out dozens of times.  I
hate when women are treated like merde as the core of a film.  I don't find
those stories entertaining.

Call me abysmally OLD FASHIONED.  I prefer stories where people try to build up
and encourage others.
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Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 18 of 322
 From : ROBERT LIDGREN                      1:134/10        .óá 03 .þí 95 22:44
 To   : FRANK EVA
 Subj : sci-fi CAT
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Frank,

You are responsible for much bruising.  When I read your tagline "Dogs come
when you call. Cats have answering machines..."  I fell to the floor in
uncontrollable laughter.

I was naive enough when we got our cat to believe that one could train them to
come on command.  Dogs do.  Dogs love you no matter what.  Cats approach when
they damn well feel like it or want food.

By the way, those X-Files items I posted were secured by searching using the
WWW.  My BBS provider also has Internet Access.  I just use LYNX to do all of
the navigating and Web Crawler to do the searches.
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Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 19 of 322
 From : Jack Butler                         1:363/309       .cê 04 .þí 95 04:36
 To   : Marc Zingarelli
 Subj : Highlander Scedule
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 Quoth Marc Zingarelli, "Nevermore".

 MZ> Besides the fact that I'm not a summer person and summer TV sucks now
 MZ> I'm  really gonna be miserable waiting for these.

     Yeah, well... I'm on my toes waiting for the three season premieres
that matter most in the world, now:  Highlander, Lois and Clark, and
X-Files.  Don't have much time to watch TV right now (I'm too busy planning
the assassination of the programming director for WOFL, FOX-35 here in
Orlando for what he did to the locals over an episode of Babylon 5.

     Jack Butler



... "That's Homer Simpson.  One of the carbon blobs in sector 7-G."
--- FMail 0.98a
 * Origin: Forethought BBS -=- Orlando FL -=- 407-277-7530 (1:363/309)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 20 of 322
 From : Jack Butler                         1:363/309       .cê 04 .þí 95 06:46
 To   : Myranya Werlemann
 Subj : Directorial Trademarks
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 Quoth Myranya Werlemann, "Nevermore".

 MW> Doesn't 'directorial trademark' means it's included in all the movies
 MW> from that director, though? How in the big wide world is he gonna
 MW> put that line in all the movies???? I mean, the numbers, okay. 'See
 MW> you next Wednesday', harder, but it'll work. "K. B. N." -?!? Or
 MW> does he have the robot as a directorial trademark, too? <G>

     The two best examples of this trademark was, in one film, "Klaatu
Beratis Nikto" was used as "magic words".  In another, it was duing a
muffled phone conversation (the hero says to the heroine "bad connection...
sounds like he just said "Klaatu Beratis Nikto...").

     Jack Butler



... "Marvelous thing, technology..." -- Kallas
--- FMail 0.98a
 * Origin: Forethought BBS -=- Orlando FL -=- 407-277-7530 (1:363/309)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 21 of 322
 From : Jack Butler                         1:363/309       .cê 04 .þí 95 07:01
 To   : Myra I Fox
 Subj : Finale, Part 2
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
     By the time this gets out into general distribution, everyone should
have seen the season finale.  If not, scram.

     Myra, this message continues below.


























 MIF> I like Amanda and I do hope they don't kill her off the way most
 MIF> of Duncan's friends have been done away with... I would like to
 MIF> see some of the 'good' Immortals hang around even if they are not
 MIF> directly in the show.

     Well, the way the storyline is shaping up, both Methos and Amanda
return to America with MacLeod (Methos as Joe's partner and Amanda as, well,
MacLeod's partner).  Both Peter Wingfield and Elizabeth Gracen are discussing
"continuing regulars" contracts rather than "featured guest star"
appearances.


 MIF> I liked Darius and thought he was a very interesting variation.

     Too bad about Werner Stocker, though.  I loved his character.


 MIF> That will be interesting... does this season end on a cliffhanger
 MIF> or do we find out the outcome of the fight?  I know, Saturday
 MIF> I'll see for myself <g>.

     Whaddidya tink?  Myself, I thought that this was a satisfying wrap-up
for the "Song of the Executioner" story.  Personal favorite scenes were
the tango (of course), Kallas badly underestimating the Watcher Vermas and
nearly paying for it with his life, and the Methos's "father/son" chat
with MacLeod ("The brashness of youth..." immediately became a tagline...).
And of course the final fight was incredibly choreographed.  Someone let
Adrian Paul show off.  His performance displayed three separate styles of
Kenjutsu during this one fight:  Yagyu Shinkage, Suio, and Kagen Etsu.
And David Robb should be complemented on his talent with the blade as well.
     And last, but not least, all I can say about the finish is *WOW*!  This
was the largest and most powerful Quickening display since Grayson's blew
up the sulfur boat.  No, wait... I think I have to go all the way back to
the Kurgan for a topper to this one...

     BTW, Myra, I'll netmail you a list of the taglines I pulled from
this episode.

     Jack Butler



... "What a dilemma, MacLeod..." -- Kallas
--- FMail 0.98a
 * Origin: Forethought BBS -=- Orlando FL -=- 407-277-7530 (1:363/309)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 22 of 322
 From : Star Hawk                           1:362/708.6     .cê 04 .þí 95 11:37
 To   : Earl Green
 Subj : Fox facts
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
From my perch I saw this come out of the gravity well from Earl Green:

  [> Earl Green [> * Sliders isn't quite dead yet; it will be repeated
  [> Sunday nights at 7pm ET.  Fox also says they HAVE NOT given Sliders
  [> the guillotine for sure.  (Yet.)  Repeat: the cancellation IS NOT
  [> SET IN STONE.

     Right up against 60 Minutes... this doesn't sound all that great.

                                        Star Hawk, the EchoTrickster

--- MacWoof Eval:23Dec93
 * Origin: William Bull Hedrick @ Hawk Haven's Orbital Point (1:362/708.6)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 23 of 322
 From : Steve Martin                        1:271/285       .cê 04 .þí 95 12:25
 To   : Jack Butler
 Subj : Directorial Trademarks
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Big Brother caught Jack Butler & Tammy Blandino crimespeaking about
Directorial Trademarks.

 JB> Besides Hitchcock and his cameo's, and Spielberg and his falling
 JB> stars, there's John Landis and the phrase "See you next Wednesday", and
 JB> Sam Raimi's inclusion of "Klaatu Beratis Nikto".

 TB> "Klaatu Beratis Nikto" is from _The Day The Earth Stood Still_ .

 TB> I've seen it parodied in a number of movies...the most recent being
 TB> _Army of Darkness_, an absolutely hilarious spoof...from which my
 TB> tagline comes from... :)

 JB> Which, by the way, was directed by Sam Raimi, thereby proving my
 JB> point...

Gee, that means he also directed an episode of _Darkwing Duck_!  ;)


... Rodents of Unusual Size?  I don't think they exist.
--- Blue Wave/QBBS v2.12
 * Origin: From Trekkies & from B5ers who hate Trek save us! (1:271/285.0)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 24 of 322
 From : Steve Martin                        1:271/285       .cê 04 .þí 95 12:27
 To   : David Johnston
 Subj : Highlander, The Series
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Big Brother caught David Johnston & Jack Butler crimespeaking about
Highlander, The Series.

 DJ> Hey, Jack.  I was just thinking about the latest discarded love
 DJ> interest.  I haven't seen all the episodes but of the ones I have
 DJ> seen, this seems to be the first one in which a non-immortal directly
 DJ> witnessed a kill.  And she was pregnant.  I figure it's pretty
 DJ> standard for doctors to counsel pregnant women to avoid exotic stimuli.
 DJ> Does the Quickening count as exotic?

How do you think new immortals are born?  ;)

Remember "The Elephant Man"?  Could it be that new immortals occur when
a pregnant woman is scared by the death of an immortal?

Actually, there's been at least one earlier mortal witnessing a kill
(and getting it on tape).  And with the Watchers around, especially
the evil watchers, there are bound to have been others.


... It's true, forgiveness IS easier to get than permission
--- Blue Wave/QBBS v2.12
 * Origin: From Trekkies & from B5ers who hate Trek save us! (1:271/285.0)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 25 of 322
 From : Bruce Baugh                         1:105/290.50    .cê 04 .þí 95 18:55
 To   : Jeff Ewart
 Subj : WorldCon in LA/96
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On (02 Jun 95) Jeff Ewart wrote to All...

 JE> I'm planning to going to LA for the '96 WorldCon and was
 JE> wondering if anybody had suggestions on what else to do while
 JE> there (guest juror at the O.J. Simpson trial).

If at all possible, make a half-day to see the Huntington Library
and Botanical Gardens, in Pasadena. The library's public displays
include a Gutenberg bible, first edition Shakespeare, original
Audobon and Jack London, all kinds of neat stuff. The botanical
gardens run from Japanese to desert - they can be seen in the
background of Duran Duran's video whose name escapes me, with them
wandering around garden scenes. Beautiful all around.

I don't know where exactly the con will be, but from wherever it is,
a jaunt up to Pasadena for the above can be combined nicely with an
excursion to the public displays at Jet Propulsion Labs, at the
other end of Pasadena.

... Alex, I'll take "Things That Only I Know" for $500...

--- PPoint 1.92
 * Origin: The Home Trepanning Club (1:105/290.50)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 26 of 322
 From : Bruce Baugh                         1:105/290.50    .cê 04 .þí 95 19:03
 To   : David Johnston
 Subj : Sliders & Vr.5 Cancelled!
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On (02 Jun 95) David Johnston wrote to Tippi Blevins...

 DJ> That program, entitled "Kindred" will be based on the
 DJ> best-selling White Wolf roleplaying game "Vampire, the
 DJ> Masquerade". It will focus on two brothers (probably twins)
 DJ> one of whom is still alive and the other who is now a
 DJ> vampire. Given it's sources, one can expect it to be moody
 DJ> and emotional, with sexual undertones.

...and with all the pretentiousness and angst one can shovel
through.

I'm minded of a friend's line - "Real men feel heroic despair.
Weenies feel angst."

... Colt: the original point and click interface

--- PPoint 1.92
 * Origin: The Home Trepanning Club (1:105/290.50)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 27 of 322
 From : Rumble                              1:163/436       .cê 04 .þí 95 20:56
 To   : Ecarey
 Subj : EARTH 2/SO LONG
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Just letting every one know I am one of the ever growing 25 people who watch
Earth 2.

--- Maximus 2.02
 * Origin: Coven's Den (613)746-3584 = 650+ Echoes & 4.3+ Gigs (1:163/436)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 28 of 322
 From : Mark Jones                          1:105/302.47    .cê 04 .þí 95 23:03
 To   : Frank Glover
 Subj : Starfleet Rules as...
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On (03 Jun 95) Frank Glover wrote to Mark Jones...

 FG> MJ>  11.  The use of fuses and circuit breakers is strictly
 FG>           prohibited!
 FG>
 FG> MJ>  12.  All manual overrides must be electronically operated.

 FG>    And:
 FG>    Under no circumstances, no matter how damaged the ship, must the
 FG> artificial gravity fail.

 But wait!  There's more!

13.   All threats by Federation commanders must be as verbose and
      non-threatening as possible.

(Captain Janeway is particularly bad about this one.  She has a
tendency to say things like "Any attack on this ship or it's crew will
be met with the deadliest of force."  It isn't *bad*, exactly, but it
could be a little more direct, a little more explicit.  "If you
threaten this ship, we'll blast you to atoms.")


... If you can't laugh at yourself, I'll do it for you.

--- PPoint 1.78
 * Origin: HQ of World Domination, Inc. (1:105/302.47)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 29 of 322
 From : Phill Ash                           1:275/160       .îí 05 .þí 95 06:59
 To   : Jonathan Tinsley
 Subj : B5, B9
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE 1.11+
 Phill Ash nasally exhaled his coffee upon hearing this:

>Tin Man, for one.

>Is that the egg-shaped ship that spun around several times and sent
>out those energy pulses that totally annihilated those two Romulan
>ships?

        Yep, that's the one...
        the one that looks like a space-going MG EX181 <G>


Your pal:  PhlAsh
... Earl Scheib of Borg here!...I'll assimalate any race for just $99.99!
---
 * PhlAshMail 1.0 *
~~~ ReneWave v1.00.wb2 (unregistered)
--- GEcho 1.11+
 * Origin: * The Beast's Lair * (804)425-1618 * Va Beach VA * (1:275/160)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 30 of 322
 From : Phill Ash                           1:275/160       .îí 05 .þí 95 07:00
 To   : Jeff Hancock
 Subj : Confessions & Lamentation
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE 1.11+

>Sheridan said... "I can't let you out". If the disease
>truly was "airborn", why would it have made any difference to let
>Delenn and Lennier out, since EVERYONE had already been exposed?
>
>Beats me. ;)

        Theorizing that an unknown bacterium or virus is airborne, one
        still does not know the life-expectancy or gestation period of
        said bacterium/virus.  Isolation is still the best course of
        action until such time as life-expectancy and/or gestation
        period can be deduced.

        Any further cases can be put into isolation *and* the time lag
        (along with "weather" conditions) can be used to determine
        gestation period.


Your pal:  PhlAsh
... If you sufficiently torture the data, it *will* confess.
---
 * PhlAshMail 1.0 *
~~~ ReneWave v1.00.wb2 (unregistered)
--- GEcho 1.11+
 * Origin: * The Beast's Lair * (804)425-1618 * Va Beach VA * (1:275/160)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 31 of 322
 From : Phill Ash                           1:275/160       .îí 05 .þí 95 07:00
 To   : Jeff Hancock
 Subj : ST: The Next Generation
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE 1.11+
        Talking 'bout Neelix' lungs:

>What would make more sense is to put him into a transporter buffer
>loop such as was done with Scotty.

        Ah...but that's a trick that was unsafe to begin with,
        demonstrated a 50% reliability, and was only barely understood
        by a "laForge-rated" Engineer.


Your pal:  PhlAsh
... I am Homer of Borg...prepare to be...OHHHH, donuts...
---
 * PhlAshMail 1.0 *
~~~ ReneWave v1.00.wb2 (unregistered)
--- GEcho 1.11+
 * Origin: * The Beast's Lair * (804)425-1618 * Va Beach VA * (1:275/160)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 32 of 322
 From : Phill Ash                           1:275/160       .îí 05 .þí 95 07:00
 To   : Chris Carter
 Subj : Confessions & Lamentation
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE 1.11+

>She did.  She was getting very tired of the heavy-duty prosthetics,
>and wanted to go through less time in the makeup chair.  She also
>didn't want her hair hidden underneath a bone-crest.  Hence, the
>change.

        It's my understanding that Mira was beginning to experience
        dermatological problems stemming from the broad use of
        prosthetics in her character design.

        If I remember correctly, B5 make-up uses a multi-part
        "cold-foam" system which, unlike "whipped latex" (which is used
        by Trek).  "Cold-Foam" is a completely synthetic polymer which
        is more similar in nature to epoxy than latex <G>

        I use a 2-part system which causes me minor irritation.  It
        emits some really nasty fumes in the curing procedure.  But the
        final effect is well worth the trouble of additional ventilation
        on minor rashes (of course, I don't wear appliances under
        Production-Grade lighting for 10 hours a day/5 days a week,
        either <G>)


Your pal:  PhlAsh
... What a drag it is getting old!
---
 * PhlAshMail 1.0 *
~~~ ReneWave v1.00.wb2 (unregistered)
--- GEcho 1.11+
 * Origin: * The Beast's Lair * (804)425-1618 * Va Beach VA * (1:275/160)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 33 of 322
 From : Phill Ash                           1:275/160       .îí 05 .þí 95 07:00
 To   : Jack Butler
 Subj : "The Gathering"
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE 1.11+
Hey Jack...

In "The Gathering" did Richard Moll's character get whacked by Conner or
Duncan?


Your pal:  PhlAsh
---
 þ PhlAshMail 1.0 þ I am the Lorax and I speak for the Trees!
~~~ ReneWave v1.00.wb2 (unregistered)
--- GEcho 1.11+
 * Origin: * The Beast's Lair * (804)425-1618 * Va Beach VA * (1:275/160)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 34 of 322
 From : Frank Eva                           1:154/750       .îí 05 .þí 95 08:12
 To   : Frank Glover
 Subj : Merchandizing
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: FastEcho 1.42.bA 8060

FG>FE>  Yes, that's the same thing. Is the series popular enough to
FG>FE>  warrant a
FG>FE>  line of B5 toys? With the threat of cancellation looming over
FG>FE>  the show,
FG>FE>  I don't think anyone will find this license a safe investment...

FG>    Probably right...yet one toymaker marketed a series of action
FG>figures from the movie `Alien' *years* after not only theatrical
FG>release, but after it had made the rounds on cable and broadcast
FG>TV...

They may have known a "sequel" was in the works, and that it would help
propel their sales, don't you think?

--- CMPQwk 1.42-R2 #145 ---
The UART's won't take this speed, Captain...

---
 * Origin: *YOPS ]I[* 3.1 GIG * RA/FD/FE RADist * Milwaukee, WI (1:154/750)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 35 of 322
 From : Frank Eva                           1:154/750       .îí 05 .þí 95 08:12
 To   : Chris Carter
 Subj : B5 Novels and Comics
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: FastEcho 1.42.bA 8060

CC>If you want to see arc advancement, watch the show.  If you want to
CC>read stories set in the B5 universe, read the comic and novels.

Yeah, that's why I'll never buy another B5 novel or comic, which is too
bad. I had years worth of enjoyable reading with ST:TOS' original
novels, but it's obvious that since the B5 story arc is paramount to me,
I'll not be getting any of that anywhere besides the TV series. If only
these original novelists would have been given the freedom to explore
more sci-fi subjects, and less of the cloak and dagger stuff...

--- CMPQwk 1.42-R2 #145 ---
Strangely, Data finds himself relating to HEAVY METAL.

---
 * Origin: *YOPS ]I[* 3.1 GIG * RA/FD/FE RADist * Milwaukee, WI (1:154/750)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 36 of 322
 From : Frank Eva                           1:154/750       .îí 05 .þí 95 08:12
 To   : Frank Glover
 Subj : Confessions & Lamenta
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: FastEcho 1.42.bA 8060

FG>   Less physically attractive, too. Some people look *better* as an
FG>alien than a human. Robin Curtis is one...Mira Furlan, IMHO, is
FG>another.

Agreed! However, she still looks better than she did in the pilot. She
looked almost manly, then...

---
 * Origin: *YOPS ]I[* 3.1 GIG * RA/FD/FE RADist * Milwaukee, WI (1:154/750)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 37 of 322
 From : Frank Eva                           1:154/750       .îí 05 .þí 95 08:12
 To   : Michael Vergara
 Subj : Confessions & Lamentation
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: FastEcho 1.42.bA 8060

MV> FE> which sympathy is  needed (Confessions & Lamentations). I find
MV> FE> it hard to equate Delenn  with the warrior race that brought
MV> FE> Earth to its knees...

MV>Then again, she isn't a warrior.  The Minbari are divided into
MV>seperate castes, like the religious and the warrior (Delenn being a
MV>member of the religious caste, I think).  Not all of the Minbari are
MV>warriors, just like not all politicians are lawyers.

Well, my point was that she does not equate to the race her people in
general represented to Earth... a dangerous threat based on their
military capability. Remember, prior to the "change", Delenn was a
member of the Gray Council, the same group that was responsible for
TORTURING Sinclair.

--- CMPQwk 1.42-R2 #145 ---
Beam me aboard, Scotty... "Will a 2x4 do, Captain?"

---
 * Origin: *YOPS ]I[* 3.1 GIG * RA/FD/FE RADist * Milwaukee, WI (1:154/750)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 38 of 322
 From : Frank Eva                           1:154/750       .îí 05 .þí 95 08:12
 To   : Lori Brown
 Subj : White Dwarf
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: FastEcho 1.42.bA 8060

LB>I agree. Found it very boring...especially for the first hour of it.
LB>Was  only slightly more interesting the 2nd hour. I'm sure it was the
LB>pilot for a series...haven't heard if it was picked up. Hope not.

Same here... I can't imagine a series based on such a boring pilot!

---
 * Origin: *YOPS ]I[* 3.1 GIG * RA/FD/FE RADist * Milwaukee, WI (1:154/750)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 39 of 322
 From : John Kahane                         1:163/198.5     .îí 05 .þí 95 10:30
 To   : Jeff Hancock
 Subj : Vorlon Immortality
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
In a message of <Sunday May 28 1995>, Jeff Hancock scribed:

*************Minor Spoiler Warning******************
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 JK>> SPOILER ALERT!!!

 JH> Still?

     Yep...  You never know who's not seen the episode in question yet, so it
makes sense to do so...

 JH> BTW, I thought the next episode was supposed to be _The Long,
 JH> Twilight Struggle_, which was being hyped as one of the best
 JH> episodes ever produced... but here they seem to be repeating
 JH> _The Long Dark_.

     The next *new* episode is going to be _The Long, Twilight Struggle_, but it
won't be airing in North America now until some time in October.  PTEN has
decided to hold off on the final four episodes of the second season until then,
and then segue right into the third season (assuming that B5 is renewed).
Meantime, the Brits and Europeans will see the four episodes when they were
scheduled to air - in the June/July slot. :(

 JK> JH>> why wouldn't Morden know too much about Kosh in return?
 JH> [...]
 JK> JH>> Unless they were born after the wars and the Shadows
 JK> JH>> don't have any form of history, you'd think they'd figure
 JK> JH>> it out... unless they really believe all the ancient
 JK> JH>> ones left.

 JK>> Well, as was established in "In the Shadow of Z'ha'dum",
 JK>> the Shadows are an ancient race, and existed before some of
 JK>> the other Ancient Ones came into existence (including the
 JK>> Vorlons), but I don't think your bit about history is the
 JK>> right one.  Kosh has obviously

 JH> I wonder how old the Shadows are that are with Morden, then...

     No way to know...but we don't know all that much about them.  We know that
they are at least 12,000 years old and that they were old when the other First
Ones, such as the Vorlons, were young.

 JH> and why no one walks into them by accident.

     Probably because they're phased. :)

 JK>> got some sort of protection, whether psionic or something
 JK>> that the Ancient Ones have learned, about how to cloak
 JK>> themselves from the Shadows knowing who they are, although
 JK>> "ItSoZ" also established that

 JH> Hmmm, good point. I wonder if the encounter suit is also part
 JH> of that protection, perhaps generating a scrambler field or
 JH> just blocking mental emanations.

     This would certainly seem to be the case, given that the Shadows in "Signs
and Portents" attempted to get through the suit to see what was inside.  That's
how Kosh's encounter suit got damaged, although it's obvious now that the Shadow
allies of Morden didn't manage to penetrate Kosh's disguise.  If they had, the
war with the Shadows would have started in deadly earnest by now.

 JH> Say, how does this tie in with _The Gathering_?

     No one knows, Jeff...at least no one other than JMS...and he ain't talking.
<g>

 JH> I can't remember exactly what happened, but wasn't a telepath
 JH> involved? And didn't the doctor who saw Kosh go to the Rim,
 JH> where he could run into Shadows?

     There were actually three people involved.  The doctor, Benjamin Kyle, was
the first to see the Vorlon after saving him from the poison, and he was
transferred back to Earth and became part of President Santiago's personal
medical staff.  In "Hunter, Prey," JMS later said that he'd not thought of
having Kyle being the doctor on the run, and that it would have been very
interesting.  Lyta Alexander, the Psi Corps rep on the station in "The
Gathering," did the psi scan of Kosh to find out who had poisoned him.  Lyta was
transferred off the station back to Earth as well, but she'll be back in
"Divided Loyalties," iirc.  Laurel Takashima, the second-in-command, was
involved in the assassination attempt up to her neck, and she was the staff
member who was transferred out to the Rim (this was something that JMS said in
posts and the like); a lot of us believe that she'll be back as a Shadow agent
before the story is finished.

     John
.....
"It's just that life is a habit that's hard to break..." - Albert (RM)

--- GoldED 2.41
 * Origin: The Point Away From Home (1:163/198.5)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 40 of 322
 From : John Kahane                         1:163/198.5     .îí 05 .þí 95 10:41
 To   : Jeff Hancock
 Subj : Vorlon Immortality /2
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
(continued from the previous)

 JK>> While the Shadows are always with Morden, as Delenn pointed
 JK>> out, I think that it's possible Kosh may have surprised
 JK>> Morden in their encounter in "Signs and Portents" to such
 JK>> a degree that he was able

 JH> Surprised? I don't remember Morden seeming that surprised, he
 JH> was as confident as ever.

     Watch the episode again, Jeff, if you can. :)  Morden was surprised to see
the Vorlon the first time and hid from him in one of the off-shoot tunnels from
the docking bays when Kosh returned to the station.  He avoided Kosh for most of
the episode, and the final confrontation with Kosh was the latter's doing, not
Morden's idea.  JMS has said that it was the Shadows that are always with Morden
that attacked Kosh, not Morden personally, and that they were the ones who
damaged the encounter suit.

 JK>> to rip the knowledge (or plunder it) from Morden's mind
 JK>> before he came under attack by the Shadows that are always
 JK>> with Morden (this latter point being a fact that Joe has
 JK>> confirmed over on CompuServe).

 JH> Which point exactly, that the Shadows were always with
 JH> Morden, that the Shadows attacked Kosh, or that the knowledge
 JH> was plundered before the attack? I'm not sure which part of
 JH> your statement was confirmed.

     Joe confirmed that the Shadows are always with Morden (which was confirmed
by Delenn in "In the Shadow of Z'ha'dum"), and that it was the Shadows that
attacked Kosh and damaged the encounter suit in "Signs and Portents."  Morden's
knowledge being taken by Kosh is the only explanation of how Kosh could have
known what happened to the Icarus, and it's something that explains the sequence
that we saw in "ItSoZ"; the perspective we seem to have is that of Morden, if
you watch it more critically.

 JK> JH>> But not everything was from Morden's POV...
 JK>> The vision of the events of the Icarus landing on Z'ha'dum
 JK>> were not all from Morden's view, but it's also likely that
 JK>> a Shadow viewpoint was also part of that - something perhaps
 JK>> that is part of

 JH> Hmmm.... But if the Icarus woke up the Shadows on the surface
 JH> of Za'ha'dum, then how could a Shadow ship have been in space
 JH> to watch the Icarus before it landed?

     Perhaps it wasn't a Shadow ship.  Perhaps it was an automated system that
the Shadows, once awake, could have awareness of.  Perhaps it was a Vorlon or
other First Ones orbital scanning/surveillance device.  Who knows?

 JK>> Shadows and their agents are telepathically linked (I refuse
 JK>> to accept a hive-mind assumption for this), and that Kosh
 JK>> took from

 JH> Telepathically, perhaps... but whatever it is, I don't think
 JH> they're always in contact. While Morden is in custody, you
 JH> can see him doing something which would seem to suggest he's
 JH> making contact with the Shadows.

     True.  And yet, go back to "Chrysalis"... that's the episode where he's
sitting comfortably and the Shadows are on either side of him talking to him.
He's not communing or meditating in that sequence to contact them.  It strikes
that his actions in "ItSoZ" while in custody was a blatant attempt to get
Sheridan to see the Shadows.

 JH>  Curiously enough, it looks as if he's making a triangle with
 JH> his fingers... What if he has one of those Minbari widgets, or
 JH> perhaps the Minbari got them from the Vorlons or Shadows in some
 JH> way?

     We don't really know what the triangular symbol with his hands was, but
perhaps it's something from Shadow and other First Ones religions that has been
adopted by the Minbari (and perhaps other races).  I doubt very much that he has
a triluminary...

 JK> JH>> BTW, what do you think that was with Delenn saying she
 JK> JH>> had known about it for the past THREE years? Perhaps
 JK> JH>> they told her (or she read about) the Shadows upon her
 JK> JH>> appointment to ambassador? Couldn't be the Grey Council,
 JK> JH>> since that was long before.

 JK>> Actually the time of Valen and the Grey Council is about
 JK>> 1,000 years ago, which fits in with the business of the last
 JK>> time that the

 JH> Sorry, I was unclear. Obviously Minbari aren't told just
 JH> because they joined the Grey Council, since then she would
 JH> have known for longer than three years.

     While this is possible, it also represents the fact that Delenn had only
been on the Grey Council for the last three to five years or so, a recent
recruit (in Minbari terms), perhaps.  That said, the Grey Council may or may not
know the full details; it depends on how Valen and the Nine decided to handle
things back when.  And the fact that Valen balanced the Council with three from
each caste suggests that he felt that there was merit to having the religious,
warrior, and worker caste viewpoints in all matters - something that the current
Council seems to have forgotten perhaps.

 JH> But then, maybe she just was only talking about the time she
 JH> had been on the station, since her former life was not really
 JH> part of his business, and the Grey Council *never* tells _all_
 JH> the truth. ;-)

     Which seems more likely. :)

 JK>> I like to think that it would be part of the wisdom
 JK>> passed down to the Religious caste members who join the
 JK>> Council. This would certainly explain Neroon's ignorance of
 JK>> something this basic, which you'd think he'd comment on.

 JH> Maybe not,... Delenn mentioned the great evil as if they all
 JH> knew about it, and if the reason he was given for the end of
 JH> the war was that they would need the Earthling's help to fight
 JH> the Shadows, he would certainly be insulted and say that they
 JH> didn't need the puny humans' help.

     True, but it depends on other things.  Frankly, I had the impression that
Neroon's mind was totally closed, once he learned about humans having Minbari
souls, and hence the reason for the surrender to Earth.  While he might still
know of the coming great evil and all, his own biases and dislike of the Humans,
evidenced in the stories that he's appeared in, would prevent him from desiring
or even wanting the Humans' aid.

 JK>> John Vornholt posted a message noting that the next book in
 JK>> the series, his _Blood Oath_ (dealing with the Narns) won't
 JK>> be out until late in the year. :(

 JH> Considering what I keep hearing about them, doesn't sound like
 JH> it'll be a loss.

     I suppose not.  Still, it would be nice to have some new B5 fiction to read
during the six-month drought between new episodes, now wouldn't it?  I guess the
comics will have to serve during this time... *sigh*

     John
.....
"You don't find wolves lurking behind rocks ready to mug a passing badger." -
Lupine (RM)

--- GoldED 2.41
 * Origin: The Point Away From Home (1:163/198.5)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 41 of 322
 From : Debra Milner                        1:112/285       .îí 05 .þí 95 10:43
 To   : ROBERT LIDGREN
 Subj : EARTH 2/SO LONG
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 > people like
 > you hang around here and say things that make me think and, often,
 > reassess my

Awww, you're making me blush.....thanks...;-)

 > The fact that an Earth 2 "Post Mortem" should generate quite a bit of
 > input
 > makes me think that it wasn't a total botched job and despite the
 > critics I
 > believe it was fixable.

I think it was quite fixable....but the networks don't want to take the time to
allow a good series to develop......I've always been fond of watching character
developments, and that is what was happening on Earth 2....now, if they had
'glamorized' it, and gone for massive special effects instead of character
development, it would have made it.....

Doubts?  look at Seaquest.....I watched it the first season, thought it showed
good potential....then, they ran it down the tubes this year, making the
characters shallow with great FX......look who go renewed and who
didn't....<sigh>

 > I'm always keen to read what you have to say.  By the way where do
 > you live?

Jacksonville, FL (actually, just west of there)

 > I am typing from Calgary, Alberta Canada (yeh, that place due north
 > of
 > Montana).

Ahhh, Cold country.....

--- GEcho 1.00
 * Origin: Wolverine's Asylum, past the boonies in Macclenny, FL (1:112/285)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 42 of 322
 From : John Kahane                         1:163/198.5     .îí 05 .þí 95 10:57
 To   : Jeff Hancock
 Subj : Vorlon Immortality /3
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
In a message of <Sunday May 28 1995>, Jeff Hancock scribed:

 JH> It sounded like you had thought of some of those questions...
 JH> aside from that, nothing else has occurred to me.

     There's been all kinds of speculations, Jeff...things about angels, and the
like - but Joe has said that only one person has actually guessed the truth
about the Vorlons.  And he wouldn't say who...

 JK>> we don't know all that much about some of the races, although
 JK>> there have been hints in the medical episodes about
 JK>> physiologies and the

 JH> About how they would recognize Kosh as an ancient one? I'm not
 JH> following. You mean it's something physical?

     I suspect so.  Remember Kyle's reaction to Kosh in "The Gathering"? There's
also the bit that was posted here from the scene that was cut from the 2-hour
movie, where Kyle talks to Laurel Takashima, and tells her that he's "been
changed" by what he saw.  Something to think about.

 JK>> "Confessions and Lamentations" had one of these as well, in a
 JK>> very

 JH> Lousy joke, though... Do you suppose this is the homeworld that
 JH> JMS said would be destroyed? I thought it would be that of a
 JH> major race.

     Yes, the Markab homeworld is the one that was meant by Joe.  A nice touch,
a rather brutal kind of lesson, and something that most of the fans weren't
expecting.  As for the Markab being a "major race" or not, who knows what they
might have accomplished during the series?  Their legends spoke of the Shadows
and their servants, so perhaps the plague wasn't an "accident of nature" at all.
:)

 JH> While I'm thinking of it, someone mentioned the number 2.5
 JH> showing up in B5 a number of times, do you suppose it's also
 JH> a coincidence that both station captions happen to share the
 JH> creator's first and last initials? ;)

     I'm not sure I understand what you mean here...

 JK> JK>>> with Kosh's earlier talk with Sheridan about teaching and
 JK> JK>>> preparing him "to fight legends."
 JK> JH>> Yes, but what legends exactly?
 JK>> The legends are the Shadows, obviously.  Since they are a
 JK>> race

 JH> Yes, but... They'd be our legends too, and what legends are
 JH> there on Earth of anything like the Shadows?

     One never knows, does one?  I could have said "Only the Shadow(s) know"...
but that would have been rather tacky of me. <g>

 JK> JH>> And how is it that every race (apparently) would have the
 JK> JH>> same exact legends?
 JK>> Not necessarily the same set of legends, Jeff.  G'Kar's

 JH> But still... similar enough so that Shadows would fit into
 JH> everyone's legends.

     Yes, similar enough to the legends of other races, that there is a very
large grain of truth here.  No different than some of the legends that we see on
Earth.  All cultures have vampire legends of some sort, faeries are common to
quite a few cultures (even if the nature and shape of faeries differs), dragons
in Eastern tales, and the like.

 JK>> thing. "Confessions and Lamentations" has another good
 JK>> example of this, that the Markab doctor tells Franklin.
 JK>> Watch for it, and I won't spoil your enjoyment of that
 JK>> episode again.

 JH> Um.... I think I missed it. Casulty of only seeing it once.

     It'll air again during the repeats sequence that we're about to "enjoy",
Jeff.  You'd better make a note about this on a post-it, I think. :)

 JK> JH>> I don't recall any Earth legends involving giant spiders,
 JK> JH>> for one... unless this is another LOTR jab. <g>
 JK>> While it's possible, and I suspect that Joe would disclaim it,
 JK>> I don't think so.  The Shadows that we saw in "ItSoZ" didn't
 JK>> appear to be spider- like to me at all.

 JH> Then what do you think they look like? I dunno, I see the eyes,
 JH> the legs, the shape, and think spider.

     I'm not going to comment on what they look like at this point.  Suffice it
to say, I have a distinct theory about the Shadows.  And the creature we saw on
Z'ha'dum didn't appear to be spider-like at all, like I said. :)

 JK> JH>> Logbook writer seems to think that was the first
 JK> JH>> appearance of the Shadows, but you say JMS disagrees?
 JK>> Not disagrees, totally different.  Joe says that the race
 JK>> that Catherine encountered at Sigma 957 was another of the
 JK>> Ancient Ones, a

 JH> Someone needs to update the Logbook, then.

     Personally, the Logbook is a wonderful thing, but it's based on supposition
and assumptions made by the writer.  The fact that he hasn't updated the thing,
or that he didn't pay attention to what Joe said about this (if the writer has
access to Internet/GEnie at all) is another matter.  But if you're going to do
something like the Logbook, then you've got to update it once per season, so...

 JK>> race that is no longer concerned with affairs of the little
 JK>> races from its time.  He's also said that some stuff will be
 JK>> clarified about this race... whatever that meant. :)

 JH> Let's hope so, and while they're at it, when does JMS say we'll
 JH> hear from Draal again?

     Later this season, Jeff. <g>

 JK> JK>>> I wouldn't be surprised to find something totally
 JK> JK>>> predictable underneath the Vorlon encounter suit.
 JK> JH>> I suppose he'll look like the classic cliche of God?
 JK>> Nope, not like God or an angel.  That's been the
 JK>> consensus on some of the B5 echoes and newsgroups, and to be
 JK>> honest with you, I

 JH> What was the consensus, that Kosh would, or wouldn't?

     That Kosh would look like an angel or God, but since Joe's said that only
one person got it right, well... ;)

 JK>> don't think that JMS would do something like that.  I
 JK>> suppose it's possible, given the emphasis on souls and
 JK>> stuff that we've seen in the series to this point...

 JH> I'm leaning towards people seeing what their image of an
 JH> ancient and wise being would be. Delenn might have seen
 JH> Valen, Sheridan might see the Dali Lama, Franklin his
 JH> reflected God, and so forth.

     Could be.  I don't personally think so, since that doesn't seem to make
sense within the context of the First Ones, and Joe's a bit more subtle than
that, imo.

 JK> JK>>> Btw, have you seen "Knives" yet?  Interesting episode,
 JK> JH>> Yep. Just once, though... haven't dubbed it, and missed
 JK> JH>> the re-airing.
 JK>> I'm not sure what you mean about the dubbing of the
 JK>> episode, but

 JH> I usually watch each episode two to three times, record it the
 JH> first time, sometimes catch the re-airing, and then again when
 JH> I dub it onto an archive copy and remove the commercials.

     Ah, ok...

 JK> JH>> BTW, I'm not sure B5 will really make it in syndication...
 JK>> B5 is not the same kind of series as ST and the like, and
 JK>> therefore I think the syndication of such a series would be
 JK>> more difficult.

 JH> But syndication is the goal and the reason for the five-year
 JH> run... and I don't know how well it'll do when you can't count
 JH> on stations showing them all in sequence without cutting out
 JH> parts you need to understand or enjoy certain parts.

     While this is true, the series has to reach the end of its five-year
run...something that may or may not happen, depending on the tv climate.  Joe
didn't write B5 as a five-year arc for this reason - he's doing it that way
because he feels that this is what he needs in order to tell the story that he's
trying to get across.  Syndication is something that annoys me - it makes it
difficult to find the time slot of the program you want to watch, among other
things.

     John
.....
No matter how fast light travels it finds the darkness has always got there
first, and is waiting for it. (RM)

--- GoldED 2.41
 * Origin: The Point Away From Home (1:163/198.5)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 43 of 322
 From : John Kahane                         1:163/198.5     .îí 05 .þí 95 11:12
 To   : Patrick Long
 Subj : FUBS
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Monday May 29 1995>, Patrick Long wrote to J Hulley-miller:

 JH-=>> Is the FUB Squad still active ? tnx.

 PL> We're still active over in Science Fiction...

     Ain't that the truth? <g>

     John
.....
"Some people just don't know how to behave in a house of religion." - High
Priest of Offler (RM)

--- GoldED 2.41
 * Origin: The Point Away From Home (1:163/198.5)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 44 of 322
 From : John Kahane                         1:163/198.5     .îí 05 .þí 95 11:22
 To   : Lanae Lauderdale
 Subj : B5 Thought
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Monday May 29 1995>, Lanae Lauderdale wrote to Robert Lidgren:

 LL> Babylon 5 is extended for another year. Heard it straight
 LL> from Jerry Doyle  at a con a few weeks ago. He had just
 LL> received the news.

     Neat trick...considering that as of May 30th, JMS didn't know if the series
was going to be renewed yet.  There was still some episode showing and other
negotiations going on, but he expected to hear on this by the end of the first
week of June.

     John
.....
"MARACAS? I DON'T NEED...MARACAS." - Death (RM)

--- GoldED 2.41
 * Origin: The Point Away From Home (1:163/198.5)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 45 of 322
 From : John Kahane                         1:163/198.5     .îí 05 .þí 95 11:25
 To   : Nicolai Shapero
 Subj : Harlan Ellison
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Thursday June 01 1995>, Nicolai Shapero wrote to Frank Eva:

 FE>> He is supposed to be working on a B5 adaptation of "The
 FE>> Glass Hand" (which, BTW, I've never read). From the length
 FE>> of time is seems to be taking to bring this episode to the
 FE>> screen, it would seem that he's back to his old tricks
 FE>> (aka "City on the Edge of Forever")...

 NS> He was, in theory, working on a sequel to the Outer Limits
 NS> episode, "DEMON WITH A GLASS HAND" entitled "DEMON ON THE RUN"
 NS> for B5.  But I haven't heard anything about this lately (no
 NS> news is good news?)

     From what I understand from the B5 FAQ, among other places, the Ellison
episode for B5 is still literally on the drawing board, and there are no plans
for this episode to be completed at the moment.

     John
.....
"If the Creator had meant us to shift rocks by witchcraft, he wouldn't have
invented shovels." - Nanny Ogg (WA)

--- GoldED 2.41
 * Origin: The Point Away From Home (1:163/198.5)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 46 of 322
 From : Jack Butler                         1:363/309       .îí 05 .þí 95 14:10
 To   : All
 Subj : Crosspost
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
     I saw this on Usenet-Highlander, originally posted by Noah Johnson.

     You know you've been watching Highlander too much when you hear a song
by The Who come on the radio, and you think it's too bad they can't record
any new stuff since their lead singer got killed.

     Jack Butler



... "Let's not get stuck on petty details." -- Kalas
--- FMail 0.98a
 * Origin: Forethought BBS -=- Orlando FL -=- 407-277-7530 (1:363/309)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 47 of 322
 From : Jack Butler                         1:363/309       .îí 05 .þí 95 14:15
 To   : All
 Subj : Xavier St. Cloud and the Quickening
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
     Another cross post.  This is also original to Noah Johnson:


     I know, I know, I usually stay away from Quickening theories, but I
couldn't resist this time.  Suppose the more Quickening you've got, either
your own or other people's, the faster you heal?  We could no doubt find
anecdotal evidence both for and against this.  And further suppose that
Immortals can in fact regrow lost limbs, but it takes a long time, like
around a minimum of several years?
     Now, we know that Xavier St. Cloud lost a hand to Duncan.  We also know
that shortly thereafter, he embarked on a mad head-hunt:  not eliminating
enemies, not looking for a good fight, apparently not caring who he killed,
just collecting all the Quickening he could by any means possible, in his
case using Hunters and mercenaries. Okay, it's a safe bet that Xavier was
less than happy about losing his hand.  It also put him at a slight
disadvantage in a fight. ("But I am not left-handed!  Oh, right, yes I am.
Uh-oh.")  Suppose he was attempting to regrow the damn thing as fast as he
possibly could, and for this purpose was racking up Quickenings as quick as
he could, whether or not it meant breaking the rules?  It would explain his
being the only Immortal we've ever seen who broke the rules; we've seen evil
Immortals, and we've seen underhanded Immortals, but how often have we seen
desperate Immortals?
     Of course, Kenny and Brian Cullen could be considered desperate, and
they both also used dishonorable, nasty tricks in fights, backstabbing and
vans and the like.

     Jack Butler



... "Young men... they think they'll live forever." -- Maurice
--- FMail 0.98a
 * Origin: Forethought BBS -=- Orlando FL -=- 407-277-7530 (1:363/309)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 48 of 322
 From : Jack Butler                         1:363/309       .îí 05 .þí 95 14:31
 To   : John Kahane
 Subj : Confessions et. al.
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 Quoth John Kahane, "Nevermore".

 JK> I'll do the best I can about this, Jack, but it'll take me a bit
 JK> of time. I'm up to my butt right now in projects, and there's a paying
 JK> one (for writing an article or two) that I need to finish up first.
 JK> Can you wait a bit on this? (Not like we'll be seeing new episodes of
 JK> B5 until October now... :>)

     Not a problem at all...

     Jack Butler



... "Outside, all the lights of the world were going out."
--- FMail 0.98a
 * Origin: Forethought BBS -=- Orlando FL -=- 407-277-7530 (1:363/309)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 49 of 322
 From : Jack Butler                         1:363/309       .îí 05 .þí 95 14:34
 To   : David Johnston
 Subj : Highlander, The Series
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 Quoth David Johnston, "Nevermore".

 DJ> And she was pregnant.  I figure it's pretty standard for doctors to
 DJ> counsel pregnant women to avoid exotic stimuli.  Does the Quickening
 DJ> count as exotic?

     No doubt.  I hadn't thought of that angle...

     Jack Butler



... "Item two:  you snore." -- Ivanova   "No, I don't." -- Sheridan
--- FMail 0.98a
 * Origin: Forethought BBS -=- Orlando FL -=- 407-277-7530 (1:363/309)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 50 of 322
 From : Jack Butler                         1:363/309       .îí 05 .þí 95 16:32
 To   : Earl Green
 Subj : Fox facts
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 Quoth Earl Green, "Nevermore".

 EG> * For those interested: there was not a word mentioned about Earth
 EG> 2.
 EG> Hope this is of use to the curious.  All info comes from Fox
 EG> Programming's summer affiliate fax.

     Not surprising that FOX had no information about Earth 2, seeing as it
was an NBC show...

     Jack Butler



... "Believe me, nothing is trivial!" -- The Crow
--- FMail 0.98a
 * Origin: Forethought BBS -=- Orlando FL -=- 407-277-7530 (1:363/309)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 51 of 322
 From : John Kahane                         1:163/198.5     .îí 05 .þí 95 16:41
 To   : Frank Eva
 Subj : B5 Reruns
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
In a message of <Friday June 02 1995>, Frank Eva scribed:

 FE> Does anyone know what happened to the last 5 episodes in
 FE> this season's schedule? (The Long Twilight Struggle, Divided
 FE> Loyalties, Comes the Inquisitor, The Price of Peace, and The
 FE> Fall of Night (season finale)).

     Four episodes actually, Frank.  "The Price of Peace" is the original name
of "The Fall of Night" as I understand it.

 FE>  We've had reruns 3 weeks in a row!

     So far, after "Confessions and Lamentations" we've had a single week of
re-runs now.  But we're in for about six months worth of them, since "The Long,
Twilight Struggle" won't air until sometime in October. :(

     John
.....
"You can't trust folk songs. They always sneak up on you." - Granny Weatherwax
(WA)

--- GoldED 2.41
 * Origin: JohnK's Point OS/2Warp - Ottawa, Ontario (1:163/198.5)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 52 of 322
 From : Kay Shapero                         1:102/524       .îí 05 .þí 95 17:36
 To   : Tony Trujillo
 Subj : Re: Sliders Continuity
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Jun 04 02:57>, Tony Trujillo (1:280/9) wrote to Kay Shapero:


 TT>Dear Quinn and Company,
 TT>                         Hate you
 TT>                         Took the "slide" box
 TT>                         Find your own way back home
 TT>                                                    -- Henry

ROFL!

--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 53 of 322
 From : Kay Shapero                         1:102/524       .îí 05 .þí 95 17:38
 To   : Frank Eva
 Subj : Knives
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Jun 04 13:12>, Frank Eva (1:154/750) wrote to Kay Shapero:

KS>By the very nature of things, we don't know for sure just how much of
KS>the story arc is really effected by an episode.  Both of the above
 FE>Anyone who knows the main storylines in the arc would not agree
 FE>with this comment... and I'm afraid I'm one of them! :-)

Do you mean you somehow got hold of JMS' files, or just that you figure you've
deduced the lot by this point in the story?  Like the guys who kept insisting it
was all Lord of the Rings.  He did say to expect surprises...

 FE>character development. I simply wish they could come up with a
 FE>decent balance between character development and story arc development
 FE>in each episode. That would make the series more interesting to me...

Unfortunately that's sufficiently subjective that it would probably require a
different balance for each watcher.  I do rather wish that if Knives had to
involve Sheridan bouncing puppyishly into trouble, that he'd nearly gotten his
head handed to him instead of what did happen, I must admit.


--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 54 of 322
 From : Frank Glover                        1:2613/477      .îí 05 .þí 95 21:08
 To   : Chip Garner
 Subj : Re: Star Trek
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

CG>  since
CG>  when does a captain of a Star Trek series have a family.  That just
CG>  limits
CG>  all the love affairs on the ship.  I think she should of stayed with

   Why not? I suspect that Kirk and Piccard are exceptions, rather than the
rule. Besides, the nature of their problem is such that any civilization where
she may meet someone is one they'll never see again. For the Enterprise, there
was always the *possibility* of coming back.

CG>  the first REAL problem they encounter.  Also, I wanna see more ACTION
CG>  like
CG>  fighting, phasers, away missions, photon torpedos, ROMBULANS AND
CG>  KLINGONS
CG>  are a must.  I wanna see how powerful that "New Technology" ship
CG>  really is
CG>  against a familliar advasary.
CG>

   Again, the nature of their problem (being in a very distant part of the
galaxy, and unable to get home in a practical time at warp speeds) means seeing
no familiar adversaries. The Romulan we saw required an unusual set of
circumstances. To meet familiar adversaries means being in familiar space, and
only weeks or months from home...end of story.


   And don't forget, *unknown* adversaries may themselves be advanced enough to
be unimpressed by whatever new technologies USS Voyager has. Don't forget, the
Borg experience began when Q ( maybe we'll see him??) sent the Enterprise far
enough out of Federation known space that it would've taken them *2* years to
get back....

   And as Janeway has pointed out, they have a finite load of photorps aboard,
and phasers may need starbase-level overhauls in time, too....

   Frank


--- QuickBBS 2.80 GoldBase (Zeta-1)
 * Origin: The Matrix Data Bank BBS, Rochester, Ny (1:2613/477)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 55 of 322
 From : Tony Trujillo                       1:280/9         .òp 06 .þí 95 15:11
 To   : Kay Shapero
 Subj : Re: Sliders Continuity
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE 1.11+

 TT>>Dear Quinn and Company,
 TT>>                         Hate you
 TT>>                         Took the "slide" box
 TT>>                         Find your own way back home
 TT>>                                                    -- Henry
 KS> ROFL!

I can't take much credit for that since it's a slight
mutation of a more popular dog's frustration with his owner.
:^)

Speaking of SLIDERS, did it ever have time to spawn a few
FILK songs? I always thought the song THE MIGHTY QUINN would
have made a fairly obvious choice...

"When Quinn and The Sliders get here...everybody's going to
hit the ground...."

BTW: Is there a mailing address I can send something to?


... Revenge is a dish best served...with stuffing instead of potatoes!
--- Via Silver Xpress V4.02B03 SW01177
 * Origin: South of the River - Overland Park KS - (913)642-7907 V.* (1:280/9)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 56 of 322
 From : Craig Palme                         1:120/999       .pä 31 .àé 95 21:46
 To   : Frank Eva
 Subj : Voyager Nose Diving?
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.11  94-2158

FE>Is it just me, or does it seem like ST:Voyager is already seeming a bit
FE>worn out? Doesn't it seem like ST:V is going "where everyone has gone

That may be premature. I'd like to give the show a chance. Remember that
when ST:TNG first came on, people didn't like it and made comparisons
to ST:TOS.

But your point is well made. I think it has to do with the fact that
there is no underlying story unfolding. No plots and sub-plots that
trail from episode to episode as is with Babylon 5.

I'll have to wait and see what develops down the road. Hopefully it
won't turn out to be as disappointing as ST:DS9 has turned out to be.
---
 * QMPro 1.53 * CCITT- Can't Conceive Intelligent Thoughts Today

--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.11
 * Origin: CDS#2 BIG BOARD, 810-548-7078  (1:120/999.0)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 57 of 322
 From : Craig Palme                         1:120/999       .pä 31 .àé 95 21:49
 To   : Richard Yamagata
 Subj : B5 Catch-Up
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.11  94-2158

RY>B5 fans should do everything in their power to facillitate this.  I want to
RY>see the last episode, 3 years from now.  Hopefully, it will be directed by
RY>Janet Greek -- my favorite B5 director.  She will be directing this
RY>season's finale.  Don't miss it!  Ry

They won't be airing the last 4 episodes of this season until October.
PTEN wants to get a running start on the next season, assuming it's
renewed, which is likely.

The last 4 episodes will air in July over in England.
---
 * QMPro 1.53 * Dogs come when you call. Cats have answering machines.

--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.11
 * Origin: CDS#2 BIG BOARD, 810-548-7078  (1:120/999.0)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 58 of 322
 From : Craig Palme                         1:120/999       .pä 31 .àé 95 21:50
 To   : Chris Carter
 Subj : New shows for UPN
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.11  94-2158

CC>This is Chris Carter, programming director of UPN, (Utterly
CC>Pointless Network) signing off...

That was good.
---
 * QMPro 1.53 * He does the work of 3 Men...Moe, Larry & Curly

--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.11
 * Origin: CDS#2 BIG BOARD, 810-548-7078  (1:120/999.0)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 59 of 322
 From : Brian Henderson                     1:207/241       .ÿò 02 .þí 95 11:52
 To   : Steven Wirsz
 Subj : B5 Ripoff: Ds9
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

SW> ST:TOS - Man will survive through resourcefulness
SW> ST:TNG - Socialist Utopias (The "enlightened" Federation)
SW> will save the universe
SW> ST:DS9 -   ""
SW> ST:Voy -   ""

SW> B5     - Got two or three pages to spare??

Just about what I was trying to say in the first place.  Thanks
Steven.
___
 X RM 1.3  X Eval Day -12 X   Sitting in a bunker, here behind my Wall

--- Maximus 2.02
 * Origin: The Belching Dragon Inn & Tavern (1:207/241)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 60 of 322
 From : Brian Henderson                     1:207/241       .ÿò 02 .þí 95 11:53
 To   : Frank Eva
 Subj : Babylon 5 (Pten)
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

FE> I think what Richard meant was that B5 is not as accepted as Star
FE> Trek; therefore, it's future is always going to be tenuous...

Which is very true. B5 isn't "accepted" because B5 doesn't have a big
corporation the keeps throwing money at it in almost limitless amounts.
I *WISH* B5 had that kind of support, but there are few, if any other
shows that do get the kind of monetary and media push that Paramount has
given Star Trek in all of it's later incarnations.

___
 X RM 1.3  X Eval Day -12 X Here kitty kitty kitty, Let's see if you're
aerodynamic.

--- Maximus 2.02
 * Origin: The Belching Dragon Inn & Tavern (1:207/241)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 61 of 322
 From : Brian Henderson                     1:207/241       .ÿò 02 .þí 95 11:57
 To   : Steven Wirsz
 Subj : B5 Talk
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

SW> Here and in most places I've seen it, PTEN programs definetly do
SW> come on in prime time.  Try 8:00 PM Wed - and the repeat 11:00 PM
SW> Saturday.  All you're area needs is a bit of letter writting.

Yep. We get it at 8pm on Thursday (used to be on Wednesday, but was
moved back in January-ish) with repeat at 10pm on Sunday. I hadn't
heard of *ANYONE* who didn't get the first showing in primetime,
although I have heard that the repeats were getting shown at all sorts
of silly times (we used to get it at 1am on Friday, just five hours
after the original showing).

___
 X RM 1.3  X Eval Day -12 X Dyslexia: it can warn without striking!

--- Maximus 2.02
 * Origin: The Belching Dragon Inn & Tavern (1:207/241)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 62 of 322
 From : Brian Henderson                     1:207/241       .ÿò 02 .þí 95 12:03
 To   : Frank Eva
 Subj : St: Voyager
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

FE> How about Legend? While this show may not be getting rave reviews, I
FE> have found it worthwhile entertainment. I never bothered to watch
FE> Voyager Q&A; it seemed like a tremendous waste of time.

Yeah. I don't care about Voyager, why would I care about Voyager Q&A? It
seemed like a complete waste, and those few Q&As that I did end up
seeing were pretty stupid.

___
 X RM 1.3  X Eval Day -12 X Alas Poor Yorick, I think you're dead

--- Maximus 2.02
 * Origin: The Belching Dragon Inn & Tavern (1:207/241)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 63 of 322
 From : Jason C Marshall                    1:250/836       .óá 03 .þí 95 02:33
 To   : Sean McCormick
 Subj : White Dwarf
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
All folded in system and saw Sean say White Dwarf

 SM> It's been almost a week since the White Dwarf showing,and I haven't
 SM> seen a single message about it.I liked the show myself.The tissue
 SM> gloves were most amazing.
 SM> Sean McCormick

Bwahahahahahhahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahhaha!!!!!!!
 Reverse motion film.  Period.  Old trick and badly done considering
todays capabilities.



... I had three kids once. I was hungry that night.
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
 * Origin: U.S.S. Proxima = Toronto, Canada (416)265-3867 (1:250/836)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 64 of 322
 From : Morten M.nsson                      2:235/335.17    .óá 03 .þí 95 19:58
 To   : Karmin St.jean
 Subj : MY FRIEND MAX
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 Hi Karmin!

 31 May 95 12:17, Karmin St.jean wrote to Morten MÆnsson:

 MM>> what is the difference between the UK and the US versions of the show...

 KSJ> YES! The major difference is in Bryce Lynch, Max's creator.....In the
 KSJ> British film version made for Cinemax, Bryce was downright evil...
 KSJ> ...In the American ABC version, Bryce was played by Chris Young...
 KSJ> ...Other cast changes:.....the bracelet he was wearing that caused it.
 KSJ> and in the British version Max ended up in the hands of Big Time TV.

 KSJ> I hope that answers your quetion.

 It certainly did! Thanks a lot!

 Yours Sincerely
 Morten "Max" MÆnsson

--- GEcho 1.00
 * Origin: Alien Fairytales: -so the wolf impregnated grandma! (2:235/335.17)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 65 of 322
 From : Morten M.nsson                      2:235/335.17    .óá 03 .þí 95 20:05
 To   : Mark Jones
 Subj : Starfleet Rules as...
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 Hi Mark!

 30 May 95 00:09, Mark Jones wrote to Morten MÆnsson:

 MM>> Having read something about Starfleet rules, as interpreted by Captain
 MM>> Picard and the crew of Enterprise, I got the urge to add a few more...:

 MJ> And I've got a couple, as well:
 MJ> 11. The use of fuses and circuit breakers is strictly prohibited!
 MJ> 12. All manual overrides must be electronically operated.

 Great stuff! ;-)
 Anybody else, out there? I'll collect them and repost them, if you want to!

 MJ> ... Mulder!  FBI!  Drop the sword, McLeod--I have a few questions....

 ROTFL!

 Med Venlig Hilsen
 Morten "Mean" MÆnsson

--- GEcho 1.00
 * Origin: >> Lavender Blue << Point #17, Copenhagen, Denmark (2:235/335.17)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 66 of 322
 From : Morten M.nsson                      2:235/335.17    .cê 04 .þí 95 00:08
 To   : ROBERT LIDGREN
 Subj : X-FILES EPISODE LIST
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 Hi ROBERT!

 31 May 95 23:02, ROBERT LIDGREN wrote to MORTEN MÏNSSON:

 RL> I think you are referring to the episode guide I posted.  I'd be happy
 RL> to send it along. Would you mind giving me your e-mail address or refresh
 RL> me on netmail. So far I've only used my local provider to read SFFAN and
 RL> reply to messages as well as sending things off to InterNet connections.

 You're right. Thanks anyway though. Someone here in Denmark, saw my
 desperate cries for help, and mailed me a copy of it, so I'm okay now.

 Cheers!
 Morten "Mulder" MÆnsson

--- GoldED 2.42.G1219

--- GEcho 1.00
 * Origin: (2:235/335.17)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 67 of 322
 From : Morten M.nsson                      2:235/335.17    .cê 04 .þí 95 02:25
 To   : ROBERT LIDGREN
 Subj : MY FRIEND MAX
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 Hi ROBERT!

 01 Jun 95 23:15, ROBERT LIDGREN wrote to FRANK SWARBRICK:

 FS>> You mean there was a whole British Max Headroom series?
 FS>> I thought there was just one movie.  Interesting...

 Oh yeah! I on the other hand, never knew about the US version!

 RL> Yes there was.  I don't know how many episodes there were,
 RL> but I suspect it was something like 8 to 12.

 The UK version was shown on one of our networks (TV2), back in 1991.
 It was at least 14 episodes. I have seen the mastertapes with the numbers
 on them myself. Unfortunately I never got any copies myself! ;-(((

 So! Tell me about the US version. How many episodes were there? What year?

 Yours Sincerely!
 Morten "Mean" MÆnsson

--- GEcho 1.00
 * Origin: >> Lavender Blue << Point #17, Copenhagen, Denmark (2:235/335.17)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 68 of 322
 From : Morten M.nsson                      2:235/335.17    .cê 04 .þí 95 02:29
 To   : ROBERT LIDGREN
 Subj : MY FRIEND MAX
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 Hi ROBERT!

 01 Jun 95 23:16, ROBERT LIDGREN wrote to KARMIN ST.JEAN:

 ->> Actually, Amanda Pays and G.W. Morgan (Theora and Blank Reg)
 ->> were also held over from the series.

 RL> Thanks!  You jogged my memory!  Now I do recall Amanda Pays and...

 Who can forget her? ;-)

 Greetings!
 Morten "Max" MÆnsson

--- GEcho 1.00
 * Origin: >> Lavender Blue << Point #17, Copenhagen, Denmark (2:235/335.17)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 69 of 322
 From : Morten M.nsson                      2:235/335.17    .cê 04 .þí 95 02:32
 To   : ROBERT LIDGREN
 Subj : MY FRIEND MAX
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 Hi ROBERT!

 31 May 95 22:56, ROBERT LIDGREN wrote to MORTEN MÏNSSON:

 RL> I do know I RENTED a videocassette of the first two hours of the
 RL> British series a few years ago. The title: simply "Max Headroom."

 Yeah. We had a few cassettes in our shops many years ago. Before the show
 was even on danish TV (??) You could get 3 different cassettes with 2 eps.
 on each. Then suddenly they were all gone, withdrawn by the distributor I
 think. A few years later (1991 I think), the series was shown on national
 TV (TV-2), but no reruns! Turns out, they didn't buy the rights for reruns,
 so now everyone tries to make the network show the reruns, but alas no luck.
 They just won't shell out the dough!

 Yours Sincerely
 Morten "Max" MÆnsson

--- GEcho 1.00
 * Origin: >> Lavender Blue << Point #17, Copenhagen, Denmark (2:235/335.17)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 70 of 322
 From : Morten M.nsson                      2:235/335.17    .cê 04 .þí 95 02:34
 To   : ROBERT LIDGREN
 Subj : X-FILES EPISODE LIST
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 Hi ROBERT!

 31 May 95 23:02, ROBERT LIDGREN wrote to MORTEN MÏNSSON:

 RL> I think you are referring to the episode guide I posted.  I'd be happy to
 RL> send it along.  Would you mind giving me your e-mail address or refresh me
 RL> on netmail.  So far I've only used my local provider to read SFFAN and
 RL> reply to messages as well as sending things off to Internet addresses.

 Just saw all your postings on the subject. Awesome stuff! Thanks a lot!

 Yours Sincerely!
 Morten "Mean" MÆnsson

--- GEcho 1.00
 * Origin: >> Lavender Blue << Point #17, Copenhagen, Denmark (2:235/335.17)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 71 of 322
 From : Morten M.nsson                      2:235/335.17    .cê 04 .þí 95 02:41
 To   : All
 Subj : Movie related Echo's
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 Hi All!

 I know, that I have asked the questions before,
 but I simply can't understand that I haven't gotten any answers yet.

 The questions are simple:

 Aren't there any Echo's about Movies in general??
 Somebody please post me the names of those, so that I can get them on my
 backbone here in Denmark. I can't imagine there being none whatsoever??
 I mean, what if I have a question about a western or Stallone or such???

 Thanks in advance!

 Yours Sincerely
 Morten "Mean" MÆnsson

--- GEcho 1.00
 * Origin: >> Lavender Blue << Point #17, Copenhagen, Denmark (2:235/335.17)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 72 of 322
 From : Brian Woodward                      1:207/241       .cê 04 .þí 95 06:25
 To   : Frank Eva
 Subj : Re: B5 RERUNS???
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 -=> Quoting Frank Eva to All <=-

 FE> Does anyone know what happened to the last 5 episodes in this
 FE> season's  schedule? (The Long Twilight Struggle, Divided Loyalties,
 FE> Comes the  Inquisitor, The Price of Peace, and The Fall of Night
 FE> (season finale)).  We've had reruns 3 weeks in a row!

On another SF echo I get, someone wrote that thay are not going to
show those episodes until the start of next season.  No reason was
stated.


... "Live long and prosper......NOT!!!!!!!"
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
 * Origin: The Belching Dragon Inn & Tavern (1:207/241)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 73 of 322
 From : Mark Jones                          1:105/302.47    .cê 04 .þí 95 21:38
 To   : Tony Trujillo
 Subj : Sliders Continuity
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On (04 Jun 95) Tony Trujillo wrote to Starwolf...

 TT> It seems that DEAD isn't quite DEAD when it comes to series.
 TT> There's been talk that the show isn't quite dead yet (it's
 TT> resting?) but I think they better get production started
 TT> again soon before the cast members start looking for other
 TT> roles that will take them away from the show. I'm sure no
 TT> actor is going to want to be committed to a dead/doomed
 TT> series.

It is my belief that we're going to be seeing more and more
independently-syndicated series in the years ahead.  As a side effect,
I think we'll also see more and more examples of Network A (or virtual
Network A, as in UPN or PTEN) cancelling a series, only to have
another network (or virtual network) pick it up, believing that either

a) *they* can make it work, or...

b) they'll be happy with ratings the other (larger?) network found
unacceptable.

So far USA Network is the champ at this.  They grabbed Airwolf when
CBS gave it the axe and produced an (absolutely abysmal) extra season
before they started syndicating it.  They also bought up Silk
Stalkings and have had great success with it.  And just recently they
announced that they're taking on Forever Knight as well.


... "Psychically, I'm very well endowed." -- L. Cranston

--- PPoint 1.78
 * Origin: HQ of World Domination, Inc. (1:105/302.47)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 74 of 322
 From : Mark Jones                          1:105/302.47    .cê 04 .þí 95 21:44
 To   : David Johnston
 Subj : Sliders - Bathroom? Wash
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On (03 Jun 95) David Johnston wrote to Mark Jones...

 DJ> -> It might take as much *total* energy to replicate an entire
 DJ> -> engine block as to replicate the parts--but that's irrelevant
 DJ> -> if they can't produce all the energy needed in one burst.
 DJ>
 DJ> Of course the simple answer is just to build a bigger replicator.

Yeah!  Like space-dock sized replicators powered by a ring of
matter-antimatter reactors.  Build a starship, get it fully equipped,
fully provisioned, fully crewed.  Slide it into the replicator dock
and scan it.  File the data away.

When the Borg come calling, send them a message:

"Crunch all you want.  We'll make more!"

Turn out starships as fast as you can cycle them through the airlock!


... Power corrupts, and absolute power... is absolutely divine!

--- PPoint 1.78
 * Origin: HQ of World Domination, Inc. (1:105/302.47)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 75 of 322
 From : Mark Jones                          1:105/302.47    .cê 04 .þí 95 21:46
 To   : Steven Skaggs
 Subj : Star Wars
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On (03 Jun 95) Steven Skaggs wrote to Mark Jones...

 MJ> ...and if the studio fanned the flames with rumors of an
 MJ> impending new trilogy, the stuff will probably sell even better.
 MJ> No marketing exec ever thought that "good enough" couldn't be
 MJ> improved.
 SS>
 SS>  That really doesn't explain why Lucas says he will do new movies. He
 SS>  certainly doesn't need the money.

Look, I've given you three scenarios for why Lucas might claim he was
going to produce more Star Wars movies even if he didn't really intend
to do it.  That's enough.

I don't believe it.  I *won't* believe it until there is far more
substantial evidence for it than has been provided so far.

If you believe it's gonna happen, fine.  Time will tell who was right.


... E [\......] F  (Just as I thought--you desperately need a clue!)

--- PPoint 1.78
 * Origin: HQ of World Domination, Inc. (1:105/302.47)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 76 of 322
 From : Mark Jones                          1:105/302.47    .cê 04 .þí 95 21:49
 To   : Myra I Fox
 Subj : Joe Dawson
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On (03 Jun 95) Myra I Fox wrote to Jack Butler...

 MI> I haven't seen the second part yet... but I couldn't believe that
 MI> he was actually going to *use* the gun, I thought it was just a
 MI> last ditch effort to threaten her into giving the disk back to
 MI> him.  Of course, that wasn't going to work since she really
 MI> believes that she is doing the right thing.

I figured he'd actually do it.  It's been made clear enough over the
last couple of seasons that he takes the Watchers very seriously.  And
it isn't just the immortals who'd be screwed if the news leaks out
(and is believed by The Powers That Be); the Watchers would be slated
for interrogation cells too.

On the other hand, Joe was suffering from Author-Induced Stupidity in
this episode.  He had a *perfect* opportunity to take the disk from
her when he discovered her looking at the database in the used book
store.  At best, he could simply have ejected it from the computer and
put it in his pocket before she stopped him.  At worst, he could have
smacked her around with his cane and *then* taken the disk.

Sure, she'd have been furious--she might even have had him arrested
for assault.  But that wouldv'e been a lot better than *killing* her,
don't you think?


... "...with the blood of patriots AND TYRANTS."  T. Jefferson

--- PPoint 1.78
 * Origin: HQ of World Domination, Inc. (1:105/302.47)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 77 of 322
 From : Mark Jones                          1:105/302.47    .cê 04 .þí 95 21:54
 To   : Starwolf
 Subj : B5 Baseball
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On (04 Jun 95) Starwolf wrote to Mark Jones...

 S >  MJ> The choice was obvious....
 S >
 S > Yes.  Unfortunately, they managed to get it wrong anyway.

Now, now.  Don't be bitter.  Bitter isn't zen.  (At least, I don't
think it is.  But I don't know from zen, so maybe....)

I can see it now.  Zen Bitterness.

"What is the sound of one hand clapping?"

It's the sound of the Master slapping anyone who brings up that stupid
koan again....


... A police state is a wonderful thing--if you're the police.

--- PPoint 1.78
 * Origin: HQ of World Domination, Inc. (1:105/302.47)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 78 of 322
 From : Alisanne Fleitman                   1:107/955       .îí 05 .þí 95 11:14
 To   : ROBERT LIDGREN
 Subj : MORE SLIDERS DATA
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Thanks very much for posting the information about Sliders.  This has been one
of our family's favorite shows.  Alas, my daughter's favorite, even more than
this one, was Earth2.  :-(  It is hard to explain to a five year old why they
cancelled her favorite show.

           ** Alisanne **

---
 * Origin: Self Help BBS * Elizabeth NJ * 908-289-3981 (1:107/955)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 79 of 322
 From : Jack Butler                         1:363/309       .îí 05 .þí 95 17:24
 To   : All
 Subj : More Crosspost
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
     This one is from Jill Kirby:

     You know you've been watching too much Highlander when you listen to
the song "Dust in the Wind" on the radio and you get all misty about Tessa
over a year later...


... "I know his name." -- The Kurgan
--- FMail 0.98a
 * Origin: Forethought BBS -=- Orlando FL -=- 407-277-7530 (1:363/309)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 80 of 322
 From : Michael Vergara                     1:2605/631      .òp 06 .þí 95 00:23
 To   : Mark Jones
 Subj : EARTH 2/SO LONG
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE 1.11+
Said Mark Jones to Tom Robinson about EARTH 2/SO LONG:

 TR>      I remember tuning out the "who's the leader" thread months ago
 TR> after they tried to leave Julia behind.  What a crock that was.

 MJ> It was actually the first intelligent thing they'd ever done since
 MJ> they landed on that stupid planet.  Naturally, they changed what
 MJ> passes for their minds in the next episode.

 MJ> The characters were fools, the "science" was laughable and the
 MJ> society was preposterous.  This show was tripe of the worst kind.

I don't think they would have had a choice (going back to Julia after they left
her).  They had NO DOCTOR, and Julia had NO SUPPLIES;  naturally, they need each
other to survive.

The characters were not fools.  They were people dealing with the stresses of
being alone on an alien world, and took risks when necissary when they had to
stay alive.  If I were in their situation, I don't see what much else I could
have done better.

As for Morgan, I think his entire purpose was to _BE_ a fool..


MikeyV


--- Blue Wave/TAG v2.12 [NR]
 * Origin: The MindScape BBS (1:2605/631)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 81 of 322
 From : Crah                                1:2601/515      .òp 06 .þí 95 02:12
 To   : Frank Glover
 Subj : ST-Generations
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
03 Jun 95 13:01, Frank Glover wrote to Paul Worley:


 PW>> Anybody know when GENERATIONS will be coming out on video?

 FG>    I've asked two local video stores. One had no idea, the other
 FG> believed it would be on the shelves by fall, but available for
 FG> rental before that....

Thanks! Strange that the rental places will have it before it's on the shelf to
buy. Kinda supports pirating copies, doesn't it?

Crah

--- GoldED 2.42.G0614
 * Origin: USS Wolf - Wheatland, PA  (1:2601/515)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 82 of 322
 From : Chris Carter                        1:105/302.23    .òp 06 .þí 95 03:29
 To   : Richard Yamagata
 Subj : B5 TALK
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 RY> As it is, they imply that Delenn and Commander Sinc were
 RY> married in that episode long ago where they were exchanging
 RY> culture customs.  It seems that this bit was penned by JMS
 RY> back, before they dec that Sinclair was to leave.  It made no
 RY> sense to me.

JMS stated quite clearly on Usenet that the bit with Delenn and
Sinclair getting married was a ruse, and as such can be entirely
disregarded.

Chris - carter@teleport.com


--- cPoint v2.17/FreeWare
 * Origin: Carter's Conspicuous Consumption (1:105/302.23)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 83 of 322
 From : Steven Wesen                        1:271/236       .òp 06 .þí 95 07:45
 To   : Tony Trujillo
 Subj : Re: Sliders Continuity
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE 1.11+
The Rummors of Sliders death is slightly exagerated.
The show was a midseason replacement for Party of Five and  most likely  will
return during the middle of the season.

Steve(Merlyn)

--- GEcho 1.11+
 * Origin: Time Machine Node 2, Newport News, VA 595-9383 (1:271/236)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 84 of 322
 From : Steven Wesen                        1:271/236       .òp 06 .þí 95 07:56
 To   : Frank Glover
 Subj : Re: ST: VOYAGER SURVIVES
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE 1.11+
Ah but the idea of holigramtic CREW member had never been esablished in the Star
Trek Universe and the Idea of a shifting Hard Light to Soft Light conversion for
the DR. was also done on RED DWARF.
The Holideck was invented by Star Trek in the 70's in the Animated series but
did not create people on the Holideck .
The Idea of Holigramatic crew members or Holigramatic people was created by
RED DWARF months before Star Trek the Next Generation even started filming thier
first episode.
I do not want knock Star Trek but there are other forms of Science Fiction they
emulate.
Steven (Merlyn)
--- GEcho 1.11+
 * Origin: Time Machine Node 2, Newport News, VA 595-9383 (1:271/236)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 85 of 322
 From : Phill Ash                           1:275/160       .òp 06 .þí 95 08:24
 To   : Cmcdonough
 Subj : ST: VOYAGER SURVIVES
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE 1.11+

>Have you ever read the Odyssey?
>This is NOT an irrelevent question.

>Also, brownie points to those who can identify a movie considered
>"classic" in SF that boldly/blatantly stole the plot from Shakespear's
>*THE TEMPEST*.

        "Forbidden Planet"

for other Shakespeare adaptations see:
        West Side Story.....Romeo & Juliet
        Men of Respect.............MacBeth


Your pal:  PhlAsh
... I made my geology roll by 6, what's it made of?--er, uh, gymnasium!
---
 * PhlAshMail 1.0 *
~~~ ReneWave v1.00.wb2 (unregistered)
--- GEcho 1.11+
 * Origin: * The Beast's Lair * (804)425-1618 * Va Beach VA * (1:275/160)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 86 of 322
 From : Bruce Baugh                         1:105/290.50    .òp 06 .þí 95 10:59
 To   : Jack Butler
 Subj : Directorial Trademarks
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On (04 Jun 95) Jack Butler wrote to Myranya Werlemann...

 JB> The two best examples of this trademark was, in one film,
 JB> "Klaatu Beratis Nikto" was used as "magic words". In another,
 JB> it was duing a muffled phone conversation (the hero says to
 JB> the heroine "bad connection... sounds like he just said
 JB> "Klaatu Beratis Nikto...").

Just to get this straight, it's "Klaatu Barada Nikto".

... We're from Washington. We came to help ourselves to everything!

--- PPoint 1.92
 * Origin: The Home Trepanning Club (1:105/290.50)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 87 of 322
 From : J Hulley-Miller                     1:107/330       .òp 06 .þí 95 12:07
 To   : Karmin St.jean
 Subj : SF Channel and Anime
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Greetings Karmin,

Sunday May 28 1995 19:23, Tammy Blandino wrote to Karmin St.jean:

KS>> the SciFi Channel introduces it's new Saturday Morning Anime
KS>> lineup!)

I missed this, could you please repost the list ? Tnx.


jhm@cnj.digex.net

... C:\WINDOWS C:\WINDOWS\GO C:\PC\CRAWL
--- GoldED/2 2.50.A0517+ [1068US3]
 * Origin: * Informatix/2 * (1:107/330)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 88 of 322
 From : Gerald Hoffman                      1:3654/70       .òp 06 .þí 95 12:30
 To   : Cmcdonough
 Subj : ST: VOYAGER SURVIVES
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE 1.11+

Cm>Also, brownie points to those who can identify a movie considered
Cm>"classic" in SF that boldly/blatantly stole the plot from Shakespear's
Cm>*THE TEMPEST*.

Cm>     /s/ Craig


Can you say "Forbidden Planet"? Sure, I knew you could. <g>


Gerald

P.S. When do I get my brownie points<g>?


 * Wave Rider 1.10 [NR] *
... UNREGISTERED EVALUATION COPY
--- Blue Wave/RA
 * Origin: The Key Board - Greensboro, NC - (910) 282-6957 (1:3654/70)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 89 of 322
 From : Allison Urschel                     1:123/75        .òp 06 .þí 95 15:26
 To   : All
 Subj : X-Files
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 Hi, I'm an X-Files and Voyager fan. Now that Voyager has it's own board, what
about X-Files? It's a great show, why hasn't anyone started an X-Files board. I
live in Memphis, and would appriciate if any other fellow Memphians have
discovered one that maybe I've over looked.
 i also wouldn't mind someone becominf g sort of and X-Files penpal. If you are
just write me your opinion on the show, hopefully a positive one. Catch ya
later.
---
 * Origin:  Weyr Galifrey - Memphis, TN  +1.901.685.0017 (1:123/75)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 90 of 322
 From : Chris Baugh                         1:105/290.5     .òp 06 .þí 95 19:45
 To   : ROBERT LIDGREN
 Subj : White Dwarf
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On (23 May 95) ROBERT LIDGREN wrote to ALL...

 RL> If Al Pacino turns up I wouldn't be shocked though.

Ain't he too tall to play a White Dwarf?  (Maybe not, with the magic
of special effects!)

... I am Perot of Borg: You will be assimilated with a giant sucking sound

--- PPoint 1.92
 * Origin: "Bother," said Pooh (1:105/290.5)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 91 of 322
 From : Ecarey                              1:101/230       .pä 07 .þí 95 17:59
 To   : Dkimmel
 Subj : B5 RERUNS???
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 > EC>Warner/PTEN had a brainstorm, and decided to HOLD those last four
 > episodes
 > EC>until October, starting the "third season" four weeks early with
 > the last fo
 > EC>episodes of season two, and thus getting a jump on some of the
 > other shows -
 > EC>hopefully building the audience a bit right before the sweeps in
 > November, b
 > EC>getting people in the habit of watching B5 while other things
 > it's up agains
 > EC>are still in reruns.
 >
 > EC>Many people, for reasons which are mysterious to me, regard this
 > as a Bad
 > EC>Thing.
 >
 > From a *fan's* point of view it is a Bad Thing for several reasons:
 >
 > a.) The four shows will air this month in England, which means that
 > those of us getting B5 notes via the Internet may inadvertently pick
 > up
 > spoilers.

A) Apparently they WON'T be airing in England this month - they're being held
'til October in the UK as well as here.  Saw this on the Internet today.

B) The fact that it's syndicated results in many people either seeing, or having
to take fairly active steps to avoid seeing, spoilers in any case.

 > b.) The series is conceived in five seasons with each season
 > constructed
 > in a particular way.  It would be like a magazine editor arbitrarily
 > moving the last ten pages of part II of a serial to part III.  Thus
 > the
 > climactic season finale will immediately be followed by the new
 > season
 > while the "de facto" season finale, while dramatic, was not the note
 > the
 > second season was to end on.

This is a genuine drawback, but hardly a disastrous one. The "average" viewer
won't be too distressed because they're likely not to \notice\ the disruption to
the intended flow of the series - it's not as the episodes are being shown in
different \order\ than intended, after all.  And the hooked-in fannish viewer
\knows\ what's happened, and will watch the "first four episodes" next season
\knowing\ they're actually the last four episodes of the second season, and
derive from them much of the intended effect.

 > c.) Because of syndication scheduling this will happen again NEXT
 > year.
 > Why not simply start season three in October, so that it can END at
 > the
 > conclusion of the May sweeps?
 >
 > From a business point of view, moving four first run episodes from
 > July
 > to October makes perfect sense because of increased viewership and,
 > hence, increased ad rates.

Thus making it FAR more likely that we'll actually get to SEE all five seasons.

Puttting the episodes where they have the best chance to build viewership for
the series is A Good Thing for the fans who want to see JMS'
novel-for-television complete.  It would have been better if Warner/PTEN had
understood the potential viewership for the show to begin with, and scheduled it
accordingly, but they didn't, and now they're stuck with working with the
original schedule and \making\ things fit.

But July would have been a lousy time to run the episodes, and everyone should
be GLAD Warner/PTEN has rethought that particular bit of idiocy.

--- FLAME v1.0
 * Origin: Withouta Net - Drop In Anytime! - 617/846-5416 (1:101/230)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 92 of 322
 From : Ecarey                              1:101/230       .pä 07 .þí 95 18:08
 To   : Richard Yamagata
 Subj : B5 CATCH-UP
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 > It is fortunate that dreams do take form and become reality.
 > Babylon 5 has been renewed for season 3 and Micro-Machines have
 > produced 4 sets of B5 models.  Of course this is only fraction of
 > the number of Trek Micro-Machines, but it is a healthy start!  What
 > I feared is that JMS would put a kabosh on the whole deal with his
 > view that marketing and fanchising can be demeaning -- one of the
 > messages found in one of the recent episodes.  I think this is a
 > very good sign that we will see all 5 years of Babylon 5.  Ry

For all the talk about JMS finding "this sort of marketing" "demeaning", he does
not yet appear to have said NO to \anything\ that will generate more B5-related
income - so far we have B5 Micromachines, comics, novels, and I've seen
advertisements for caps and t-shirts.

And note that this is while B5 is only in its second season - the only shows
that have gotten tie-in products out faster have been shows that were conceived
for the \purpose\ of selling "tie-ins".

--- FLAME v1.0
 * Origin: Withouta Net - Drop In Anytime! - 617/846-5416 (1:101/230)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 93 of 322
 From : Ecarey                              1:101/230       .pä 07 .þí 95 18:14
 To   : Richard Yamagata
 Subj : BABYLON 5 (PTEN)
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 > FE> BH>You said at the end that "unfortunately, B5 is not like Star
 > Trek".
 > FE> BH>There is nothing unfortunate about it.  It is not supposed to
 > be like
 > FE> BH>Star Trek, and if it was, I certainly wouldn't watch it.
 >
 > FE> I think what Richard meant was that B5 is not as accepted as
 > FE> Star Trek; therefore, it's future is always going to be
 > tenuous...
 >
 RY> Thank you Frank for making it clear what I meant; it is unfortunate
 > that B5 does not share in the "sure thing" mentality that Voyager
 > seems to enjoy. I mean, I have not heard of any of the B5 cast going
 > out and buying a condo in Malibu or a Porsche, like I heard some of
 > the Voyager Cast did when they had their contract in hand. Ry

STAR TREK is nearly thirty years old now, and Voyager is the FOURTH Trek series,
not the first. It would be no credit to the intelligence of the actors in the B5
cast if they ASSUMED that a series that hadn't even gone on the air yet [at that
point] was as much of a sure thing as Voyager with its built-in audience and its
built-in Trek commercial credibility.

If B5 survives to finish its planned five-year run, it will have been
significantly more successful than the first Trek series.  If the [hypothetical]
second Babylon series is also a success, then \perhaps\ actors signed to the
cast of the \third\ series will have the same confidence as the actors signed to
the cast of the fourth Trek series.

--- FLAME v1.0
 * Origin: Withouta Net - Drop In Anytime! - 617/846-5416 (1:101/230)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 94 of 322
 From : Ecarey                              1:101/230       .pä 07 .þí 95 18:19
 To   : Bruce Baugh
 Subj : B5 BASEBALL
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 >MJ> Not necessarily--but the station *designers* may have been
 >MJ> baseball fans. EarthForce seems to be strongly influenced by
 >MJ> (if not descended from) the American government and culture.
 >MJ> Americans, as a whole, are bigger fans of baseball than of
 >MJ> zen.
 >
 BB> For that matter, baseball is also _tremendously_ popular in Japan,
 > and in parts of the Third World. That part of the station could well
 > have been designed by someone other than an American.

All through Latin America, the Philippines, Korea - European soccer snobbery
aside, baseball IS an international sport.  It's just not popular in \Europe\.

--- FLAME v1.0
 * Origin: Withouta Net - Drop In Anytime! - 617/846-5416 (1:101/230)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 95 of 322
 From : Jeff Schlenker                      1:288/19        .åò 08 .þí 95 00:04
 To   : Crah
 Subj : Re: ST-Generations
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

-=> Crah was overheard speaking to Frank Glover <=-

 PW>> Anybody know when GENERATIONS will be coming out on video?

 FG>    I've asked two local video stores. One had no idea, the other
 FG> believed it would be on the shelves by fall, but available for
 FG> rental before that....

 Cr> Thanks! Strange that the rental places will have it before it's on the
 Cr> shelf to buy. Kinda supports pirating copies, doesn't it?

Yes that is strange, but it was done that way with True Lies.  You could
rent it long before it arrived in stores to buy.

I don't get it.

Jeff


Jeffrey A. Schlenker               jeff.schlenker@lake-city.com

... "i" before "e", except in Budweiser.
___ TagDude 0.87 [Unregistered]
---
--- < Sig-It > v3.00 by Brandon S. Bell

--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12
 * Origin: LakeCity BBS * V34/4 Gigs Watertown SD 605 886-0849 (1:288/19)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 96 of 322
 From : Paul Worley                         1:2601/515      .åò 08 .þí 95 02:16
 To   : Joel Jessup
 Subj : Generations Video
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
06 Jun 95 21:16, Joel Jessup wrote to Paul Worley:

 JJ> I heard a July 11 release date for RENTAL, followed by a general
 JJ> release later in the year, probably november or the holidays. JGJ

I heard a rumor that it'd hit the shelves, for rental and sales in August.
I;ve heard just about everything, including a new seven-movie commemerative set
with lots of goodies. What do the people who bought the 5 and 6 cassette
editions do with the old ones now?

Paul

--- GoldED 2.42.G0614
 * Origin: USS Wolf - Wheatland, PA  (1:2601/515)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 97 of 322
 From : Cyndi Edwards                       1:324/116       .åò 08 .þí 95 10:36
 To   : Frank Glover
 Subj : ST-Generations
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
I spoke to my video store here and they have been telling everyone to expect it
in the middle to the end of July.  I hope that helps.

--- FMail 0.96ò
 * Origin: Electric Dreams (508)682-5279 - 5.2 Gigabytes online! (1:324/116)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 98 of 322
 From : Cyndi Edwards                       1:324/116       .åò 08 .þí 95 10:40
 To   : Tony Trujillo
 Subj : Sliders Continuity
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
According to what I have been reading on USENET about Sliders is that it is not
quite cancelled but will be a mid-season replacement again next season.  I don't
know how reliable that information is but I hope it is true.

--- FMail 0.96ò
 * Origin: Electric Dreams (508)682-5279 - 5.2 Gigabytes online! (1:324/116)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 99 of 322
 From : Cyndi Edwards                       1:324/116       .åò 08 .þí 95 10:43
 To   : Mark Jones
 Subj : White Dwarf
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
I know what you mean I sat through the whole show but just to get my "hacker
card".  It is like they took a half hour show and turned it into 2 hours, talk
about slow.  I will probably give it a second chance if they do decide to make a
series but only one more shot.

--- FMail 0.96ò
 * Origin: Electric Dreams (508)682-5279 - 5.2 Gigabytes online! (1:324/116)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 100 of 322
 From : Ecarey                              1:101/230       .åò 08 .þí 95 11:21
 To   : Robert Lidgren
 Subj : EARTH 2/SO LONG
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 > Rememebr, it's only something like 10% of the population who read
 > novels.
 > That's a scary statistic but it's accurate as far as I know.  If you
 > DON'T READ
 > SCIENCE FICTION you haven't a clue about what the possibilities
 > might be for a
 > science fiction film or TV series.

It only sounds like a scary statistic when you take it in isolation and don't
ask intelligent questions about WHICH DIRECTION readership has been going in.

My grandparents were illiterate.  My mother and her siblings were dropped by
their friends as stuck-up snobs when my illiterate grandmother decided that all
her children were going to GRADUATE from high school. Most of my cousins have
been to college, and a few, like me, have graduate degrees.

More people then ever before in the history of the world are getting some of
their recreation from \reading\, and the most desperately insecure of the
intellectual snobs have been forced to resort to such strategems as declaring
that some collections of bound pages covered with printed words telling a story
aren't "real books".

Book sales in the US have been going straight UP for the last couple of decades.
Sales of individual \titles\ are \down\, but the total \number\ of titles, and
the total sales of books, are skyrocketing.  More people are reading more
different things.

Mall bookstores are sneered at, often with reason, but when was the last time
you saw a mall without a bookstore? Often there's two.  A bookstore is as
necessary a feature of a mall as the two anchor stores and someplace to eat
lunch.  Why do you suppose this is, if nobody is reading?

And look at what's happening with non-mall bookstores.  Superstores are taking
over - lots and lots of different titles, in a pleasant atmosphere which
includes \chairs\ and frequently an espresso bar.  It's the whole basis of
Borders, it's the way Barnes and Noble is going, and only Waldenbooks, of the
national chains, doesn't have such stores.  Waldenbooks is experiencing some
difficulties because sales aren't keeping up with their competitors...

Malls need bookstores, but little mall bookstores with limited selections are no
longer where money is made in bookselling.  The big money is all in the big
stores with lots of selection. This is as true of independents as it is of the
chains.  The independents need to either have great depth in a specialty area
[sf&f, women's, gay&lesbian, African-American, children's, etc.] or they need to
have the same breadth and the same browse-all-you-want want atmospher as the
chain superstores in order to compete.

People are reading. They're just not all following sheeplike in the reading
footsteps of the fashion leaders.

--- FLAME v1.0
 * Origin: Withouta Net - Drop In Anytime! - 617/846-5416 (1:101/230)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 101 of 322
 From : Dkimmel                             1:101/230       .åò 08 .þí 95 13:42
 To   : Ecarey
 Subj : JMS STUFF 6/1
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Thought you might be interested in this item from the B5 echo:


MM>>Why is PTEN holding the last four?

MM>    The last 4 episodes of this season are being held by PTEN until
MM>October, in theory to lead into the year three (not yet approved) debut
MM>in November.  I think I finally sussed out why this is being done; I
MM>heard the other day that Voyager is doing the same thing.  So that means
MM>PTEN is counter programming it.
MM>                                                       jms

 * SLMR 2.1a * When correctly viewed, EVERYTHING is lewd.

--- FLAME v1.0
 * Origin: Withouta Net - Drop In Anytime! - 617/846-5416 (1:101/230)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 102 of 322
 From : John Kahane                         1:163/198.5     .åò 08 .þí 95 16:47
 To   : Richard Yamagata
 Subj : B5 Catch-Up
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
In a message of <Saturday June 03 1995>, Richard Yamagata scribed:

 RY> Hello John and all visitors to this echo!

     Visitors to this echo?  Umm...errr...what did I miss here? :)

 RY> The sight with the plot synopsis and analysis that I visit
 RY> regularly is: http://www.hyperion.com From there you just
 RY> select: The Lurker's Guide to Babylon 5 to go into the most
 RY> complete B5 site in the world -- at least that is my opinion.

     This is what I've heard as well...however, I've also heard from folks
who've downloaded stuff like the Lurker's Guide, who say that some of the files
badly need updating.  Not to mention a few corrections.

 RY> Your work posting the synopsises on the B5 echo is wonderful.

     Thanks for the compliment.  Glad you like it.

 RY> It is also a lot of work.

     Yes, it is.  I do this more as a labour of love, than anything else.  When
it becomes work, I'll likely stop. :)  I hope that some of my material will be
posted up to the www or to Internet some day, but have no idea whether it's
already there.  If so, I'd appreciate knowing about it.

     John
.....
One pennyworth of example was worth a pound of punishment. (WA)

--- GoldED/2 2.42.G0614
 * Origin: JohnK's Point OS/2Warp - Ottawa, Ontario (1:163/198.5)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 103 of 322
 From : John Kahane                         1:163/198.5     .åò 08 .þí 95 16:52
 To   : Frank Eva
 Subj : Confessions & Lamentations
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Sunday June 04 1995>, Frank Eva wrote to Kay Shapero:

 KS>> You'll note that that news announcer said that there were
 KS>> probably surviving individuals in remote places, but the
 KS>> Markab civilization was dead; maybe some of these survivors
 KS>> will pop up later.

 FE> Yeah, that was kind of the gist of the last comment in my
 FE> post, that somehow JMS could discover an isolated colony of
 FE> Markabs... if he wants to bring them back...

     I think the whole business with the Markabs was brilliant, and
well-executed.  The fact that there are likely to be one or two isolated
colonies out there is a good indicator that the Markabs will be seen again in
the series.  The question now becomes what will happen with the Markab
homeworld, and will some other species stake a claim to it?

     The really neat thing is that the business with the Markabs is not the
"decimation of a major race's homeworld" that JMS has been hinting at for a
while.  Looks like the dying hasn't even started yet.

     John
.....
"What good is being a witch if you don't do magic?" - Magrat Garlick (WA)

--- GoldED/2 2.42.G0614
 * Origin: JohnK's Point OS/2Warp - Ottawa, Ontario (1:163/198.5)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 104 of 322
 From : John Kahane                         1:163/198.5     .åò 08 .þí 95 16:58
 To   : Jack Butler
 Subj : Confessions et. al.
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
In a message of <Monday June 05 1995>, Jack Butler scribed:

 JK>> I'll do the best I can about this, Jack, but it'll take
 JK>> me a bit of time. I'm up to my butt right now in projects,
 JK>> and there's a paying one (for writing an article or two)
 JK>> that I need to finish up first. Can you wait a bit on this?
 JK>> (Not like we'll be seeing new episodes of B5 until October
 JK>> now... :>> )

 JB>      Not a problem at all...

     Thanks, muchly.  Just do me a favour, please, and give me a gentle
reminder about this in a month or so.  Not that I'm likely to forget, with the
post-it on the computer, but you never know... <g>

     John
.....
People didn't hit you over the head with farmhouses back home. (WA)

--- GoldED/2 2.42.G0614
 * Origin: JohnK's Point OS/2Warp - Ottawa, Ontario (1:163/198.5)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 105 of 322
 From : John Kahane                         1:163/198.5     .åò 08 .þí 95 17:03
 To   : Frank Eva
 Subj : Mira and Delenn
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
In a message of <Monday June 05 1995>, Frank Eva scribed:

 FG>> Less physically attractive, too. Some people look *better*
 FG>> as an alien than a human. Robin Curtis is one...Mira Furlan,
 FG>> IMHO, is another.

 FE> Agreed! However, she still looks better than she did in the
 FE> pilot. She looked almost manly, then...

     She was *meant* to look manly in "The Gathering," Frank. :)

     John
.....
One day a tortoise will learn how to fly. (SG)

--- GoldED/2 2.42.G0614
 * Origin: JohnK's Point OS/2Warp - Ottawa, Ontario (1:163/198.5)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 106 of 322
 From : Ecarey                              1:101/230       .åò 08 .þí 95 17:58
 To   : Dkimmel
 Subj : JMS STUFF 6/1
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 DK> Thought you might be interested in this item from the B5 echo:
 >
 >
 > MM>>Why is PTEN holding the last four?
 >
 > MM>    The last 4 episodes of this season are being held by PTEN
 > until
 > MM>October, in theory to lead into the year three (not yet approved)
 > debut
 > MM>in November.  I think I finally sussed out why this is being
 > done; I
 > MM>heard the other day that Voyager is doing the same thing.  So
 > that means
 > MM>PTEN is counter programming it.
 > MM>                                                       jms

Makes sense. It's one thing to "waste" four episodes in July and start the
season in November if everyone else is starting in November, and another thing
to do that if the most direct competition the show has is holding four episodes
to start in October. And while DS9 is more similar in tone and feel, it's
Voyager that's currently the other sf series which is fighting for an audience
and likely to get one.

--- FLAME v1.0
 * Origin: Withouta Net - Drop In Anytime! - 617/846-5416 (1:101/230)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 107 of 322
 From : David Johnston                      1:342/14        .ÿò 09 .þí 95 01:06
 To   : All
 Subj : How Many?
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
How many Minbari:  Two.  One to change it, and one to hand it to the
first one in a ceremony lasting three days.
How many Centauri:  Once we were a GREAT PEOPLE!  Once we knew how to
change our own and had more than any one else...What was the question?
How many Vorlons:  Yesss

--- PCBoard (R) v15.21/100
 * Origin: Freddy's Place - Edm. AB - 28.8K (403) 456-4241 (1:342/14)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 108 of 322
 From : Bruce Baugh                         1:105/290.50    .ÿò 09 .þí 95 04:55
 To   : Frank Eva
 Subj : B5 Renewed!
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On (07 Jun 95) Frank Eva wrote to Richard Yamagata...

 FE> I think what makes this look bad is that prior to the offer,
 FE> JMS took such a hard line against franchising B5. He now
 FE> looks a bit hypocritical...

I'll argue both the major and minor premises - and I've been
following B5 discussions on GEnie since before the pilot aired.

JMS has never taken "a hard line" against franchising. He's taken a
hard line against schlock. From what I hear, the MicroMachines
models are well-done. Which is fine.

He's never quite come out and said, "The B5 novels bite the wax
tadpole." But he's sure danced up to the edge of saying that; it
sounds like the deal he ended up with there is not the deal he
thought he had, and any hypothetical future books are going to be
written by people _he_ picks, rather than assigned to him by the
publisher.

Likewise, he's been pretty decent about not bashing the faults of
the comic book, starting with the ghastly coloring. But his quiet
about a lot of aspects is itself indicative.

By the way, I must say that I don't think much of your complaint
aobut the comic not advancing the arc. What did you expect? The
point of the TV show is that it should stand on its own - people
shouldn't _have_ to get anything but the show to follow the major
developments. We are fortunate in having secondary media that affect
the show at all: compare the Trek novels and comics, with their
total disconnection from the show.

Back at the screed, then, I think you've misunderstood JMS' original
position.

... Madness takes its toll. Please have exact change.

--- PPoint 1.92
 * Origin: The Home Trepanning Club (1:105/290.50)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 109 of 322
 From : Frank Eva                           1:154/750       .ÿò 09 .þí 95 06:20
 To   : Brian Henderson
 Subj : Babylon 5 (Pten)
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: FastEcho 1.42.bA 8060

BH>FE> I think what Richard meant was that B5 is not as accepted as Star
BH>FE> Trek; therefore, it's future is always going to be tenuous...

BH>Which is very true. B5 isn't "accepted" because B5 doesn't have a big
BH>corporation the keeps throwing money at it in almost limitless
BH>amounts.

According to the latest TV Guide, B5 didn't even rank in the top 120
shows this season... What gives?

---
 * Origin: *YOPS ]I[* 3.1 GIG * RA/FD/FE RADist * Milwaukee, WI (1:154/750)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 110 of 322
 From : Frank Eva                           1:154/750       .ÿò 09 .þí 95 06:20
 To   : Kay Shapero
 Subj : Babylon 5 (PTEN)
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: FastEcho 1.42.bA 8060

KS>Do you mean you somehow got hold of JMS' files, or just that you
KS>figure you've deduced the lot by this point in the story?  Like the

Oh come on Kay, do you mean to tell me you don't recognize the ongoing
storyline revolving around the "shadows" as perhaps the most important
facet to the story arc revealed so far?

KS>guys who kept insisting it was all Lord of the Rings.  He did say to
KS>expect surprises...

That wasn't me, and I do expect lots of surprises... :-)

--- CMPQwk 1.42-R2 #145 ---
I multitask... I read in the bathroom!

---
 * Origin: *YOPS ]I[* 3.1 GIG * RA/FD/FE RADist * Milwaukee, WI (1:154/750)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 111 of 322
 From : Frank Eva                           1:154/750       .ÿò 09 .þí 95 06:21
 To   : Jeff Hancock
 Subj : Babylon 5 (PTEN)
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: FastEcho 1.42.bA 8060

JH>FE>Probably the same way he feels about the B5 comics, which also
JH>FE>don't

JH>So how is that, then? I didn't think you had contact with JMS.

Just guessing, but it seems obvious to me that JMS is not going to let
the B5 comics or novels advance the main storyline of B5: The TV Series.

JH>FE>ref: Kosh revealed?
JH>FE>JH>I'm thinking it'll be a CGI ball of light,

JH>FE>Based on the first season episode in which Kosh as a "ball of
JH>FE>light" moved back and forth in front of a translucent screen?

JH>Partially, although I don't remember/haven't seen that one; JK told
JH>me about it. I'm just guessing at it being reminiscent of the classic
JH>portrayal of angels/God in some way without being too obvious/cheesy.

Last season, because of this episode, I speculated that Kosh's people
were "energy beings", but then I was reminded that they do need an
artificial "environment" inside B5, and that Kosh had actually been
poisoned in one episode, both of which seem to imply more than an energy
being is inside that encounter suit...

---
 * Origin: *YOPS ]I[* 3.1 GIG * RA/FD/FE RADist * Milwaukee, WI (1:154/750)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 112 of 322
 From : Frank Eva                           1:154/750       .ÿò 09 .þí 95 06:21
 To   : Craig Palme
 Subj : Voyager Nose Diving?
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: FastEcho 1.42.bA 8060

CP>That may be premature. I'd like to give the show a chance. Remember
CP>that when ST:TNG first came on, people didn't like it and made
CP>comparisons to ST:TOS.

I have given it a chance. I taped all of the first 9 episodes, and will
keep them in my collection. Since then, the quality has nosedived, and
the writers seem content to rehash old themes.

BTW, I thought the first season of TNG was EXCELLENT! I was not one of
the doomsayers. At this point, I plan on giving Voyager a chance, but I
really hope the writers are rejuvenated by next season...

CP>But your point is well made. I think it has to do with the fact that
CP>there is no underlying story unfolding. No plots and sub-plots that
CP>trail from episode to episode as is with Babylon 5.

I have never expected a "continuing" story in any Star Trek. In fact,
that is proving a major disadvantage for diehard B5 fans who have now
been told that they won't have any more of the B5 story until next
October. If this show hadn't been a continuing story, it would have been
much easier to accept a major postponement, but to have 4 episodes
postponed 4 months when you were expecting them now, is almost too much
to bear, especially considering we won't even see the 2nd season
"finale" this season!

CP>I'll have to wait and see what develops down the road. Hopefully it
CP>won't turn out to be as disappointing as ST:DS9 has turned out to be.

Yeah, that's one show I can not bring myself to watch! And that's quite
an admission coming from a diehard trekker like myself...

---
 * Origin: *YOPS ]I[* 3.1 GIG * RA/FD/FE RADist * Milwaukee, WI (1:154/750)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 113 of 322
 From : Frank Eva                           1:154/750       .ÿò 09 .þí 95 06:21
 To   : All
 Subj : B5 TAPES?
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: FastEcho 1.42.bA 8060
Well, the videotapes of the first season of B5 that were supposed to be
released 6 months ago have still not arrived! For those of you who were
expecting/hoping for the tapes (and/or the laserdiscs), I suggest you
not hold your breath! :-)

---
 * Origin: *YOPS ]I[* 3.1 GIG * RA/FD/FE RADist * Milwaukee, WI (1:154/750)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 114 of 322
 From : Lanae Lauderdale                    1:106/440       .ÿò 09 .þí 95 07:09
 To   : Jeff Hancock
 Subj : SLIDERS KILLED TOO!!
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: InterEcho 1.04 6E010618
Interesting.... Wonder why Jerry Doyle told us he had just received the news?
Just trying to impress us? That didn't seem to be his style!


--- GTMail 1.25
 * Origin: Bay Area LightSpeed San_Leon, TX (1:106/440.0)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 115 of 322
 From : Demian Katz                         1:2626/102      .ÿò 09 .þí 95 11:00
 To   : Frank Eva
 Subj : Re: I saw the missing Earth 2
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
> Was this the one that was preempted by the NBA game? How the heck did
> you get to see it?

NBC put it on sneakily in a late-night time slot, and it wasn't listed
in the TV Guide here...  I missed it, and so far have been unable to find
anyone who taped it.. :(

                                                                Demian

... Internet: whovian@locke.ccil.org

--- DB 1.58/005132
 * Origin: Castrovalva BBS  610-917-0380 (1:2626/102)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 116 of 322
 From : Ecarey                              1:101/230       .ÿò 09 .þí 95 11:19
 To   : Frank Eva
 Subj : VOYAGER NOSE DIVING?
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 > E>Frank, the demographics of the Voyager crew are the normal
 > E>demographics of a naval ship - except that the average age of the
 > E>Voyager crew may in fact be a tad HIGHER than in "real life".
 >
 FE> That matters not to me... I simply don't like the balance they've
 > achieved and all the reasoning in the world about the 'reality' of
 > it,
 > isn't going to get me to change my mind.

OH, so you're saying they had an obligation to be guided by the demographics
that you personally prefer, rather than by what's plausible for the setting of
the show, in order to be considered a "good" show?

 > E>The officers on B5 are older, because that's a diplomatic post
 > with
 > E>lots of tensions just below the surface.
 >
 FE> Yes, and I prefer it this way. Even Lt. Keffer looks more like an
 > adult
 > than some of Voyager's wet-behind-the-ears crew.

All you're saying here is that you personally prefer a show with older
characters.  This is as reasonable a personal preference as any [and one I
partially share - remember the discussions of who and how old the captain of the
Voyager was going to be?], but it's strictly personal preference and says
nothing about the quality of the show.

Having such young characters making up a large part of the personnel of B5 WOULD
be poor work, because such young characters don't belong in those jobs.  But
equally, having the Voyager crew consist entirely of older, experienced officers
without a large contingent of brand-new academy grads would ALSO be poor work,
because it's so implausible for the setting.  Older officers are doing other
jobs. Only the captain, XO, and department heads would tend to be older people,
and that's what we have on Voyager, except in engineering, where all the older
officers were \killed\.

Once they decided on the setting for the new Trek show, the fact that most of
the officers and crew would be young was a forgone conclusion. So they didn't
produce exactly the show YOU want - so what?  Both DS9 and B5 have older casts
and are aimed at somewhat older audiences.  You're not being persecuted, Frank.

--- FLAME v1.0
 * Origin: Withouta Net - Drop In Anytime! - 617/846-5416 (1:101/230)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 117 of 322
 From : Ecarey                              1:101/230       .ÿò 09 .þí 95 11:26
 To   : Brian Henderson
 Subj : BABYLON 5 (PTEN)
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 > FE> I think what Richard meant was that B5 is not as accepted as
 > Star
 > FE> Trek; therefore, it's future is always going to be tenuous...
 >
 BH> Which is very true. B5 isn't "accepted" because B5 doesn't have a
 > big
 > corporation the keeps throwing money at it in almost limitless
 > amounts.
 > I *WISH* B5 had that kind of support, but there are few, if any
 > other
 > shows that do get the kind of monetary and media push that Paramount
 > has
 > given Star Trek in all of it's later incarnations.

                   ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

And that last is the critical point, of course. B5 isn't being specially
put-upon; it's just a new show in a category the industry doesn't understand all
that well, that hasn't had Trek's three decades yet to build its audience and
\convince\ Warner to lavish money on it the way Paramount lavishes money on
Trek.

Remember, B5 has only just come to the end of its second season.  At the end of
ITS second season, Trek was \cancelled\ and saved only by the unprecedented
enthusiasm of its fans.  And in its third season, it was given a lousy time-slot
and starved for funds.

Compared to where Trek was at this point in its history, B5 is doing quite well,
so quitcherbellyachin'.

--- FLAME v1.0
 * Origin: Withouta Net - Drop In Anytime! - 617/846-5416 (1:101/230)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 118 of 322
 From : Ecarey                              1:101/230       .ÿò 09 .þí 95 11:31
 To   : Frank Eva
 Subj : B5 RERUNS???
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 > EG>  As for the big question, Warner Bros. has decided to hold the
 > last
 > EG>  four episodes until *October*, allegedly to build interest for
 > the
 > EG>  beginning of the third season, which hasn't even been approved
 > at
 > EG>  this time.  Season 2 will be re-running ad nauseum till then.
 >
 FE> Maybe the WB Network intends to make B5 its "flagship" next year???
 > But
 > don't they think they can have 4 great episodes ready for the start
 > of
 > next season??? How can they have a season 2 "finale" if they
 > postpone it
 > until next season???
 >
 FE> IMO, this seems like a really BAD move... It is going to incense
 > diehard
 > B5 fans who were expecting 4 more eps this season...

But they're less interested in the "die-hard B5 fans" WHO WILL WATCH THE SHOW
ANYWAY, than they are in the larger audience they need and want for the show to
be really profitable, and who will by and large NOT be watching much television
in July and hence would MISS those four episodes.  It's much more useful from
the perspective of building a larger general audience for the show, and
generating more ad revenue to PAY for the show, to hold the four episodes and
run them in October, when most of its competition will still be in reruns, but
the viewers will be home and watching tv.

There's advantages to starting the season four weeks early.

--- FLAME v1.0
 * Origin: Withouta Net - Drop In Anytime! - 617/846-5416 (1:101/230)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 119 of 322
 From : Ecarey                              1:101/230       .ÿò 09 .þí 95 11:39
 To   : Steven Wesen
 Subj : RE: ST: VOYAGER SURVIVES
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 > The Idea of Holigramatic crew members or Holigramatic people was
 > created by
 > RED DWARF months before Star Trek the Next Generation even started
 > filming  thier first episode.

Too late to have much influence on TNG, even assuming that the Trek staff
noticed RED DWARF \immediately\, which is unlikely. Certainly it could have had
some influence on Voyager, but the similarities are much less than you seem to
think, and some of the things you think are stolen from RED DWARF have been
around for several millenia - I was NOT kidding when I asked if you'd read THE
ODYSSEY.

 > I do not want knock Star Trek but there are other forms of Science
 > Fiction  they emulate.

You have seemed to be making a determined effort to identify every feature of
Trek as a ripoff of RED DWARF. Unfortunately, your reference in an earlier post
to the "cheeky" reference to a "red dwarf" renders whatever point you might have
had utterly foolish.  Red dwarf stars are quite real, and common enough that
\failure\ to encounter one occasionally would be far more striking in a show
about intersteller travel.

--- FLAME v1.0
 * Origin: Withouta Net - Drop In Anytime! - 617/846-5416 (1:101/230)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 120 of 322
 From : Allison Urschel                     1:123/75        .ÿò 09 .þí 95 16:11
 To   : All
 Subj : I Found An X-files BOard
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 I was just playing around on a BBS when I decided to go through the message
areas to see if it had X-Files, and it did. Of course I live in Memphis,
Tennessee, so probably everyone doesn't have it. If you want the number, just
ask. Basically all the BBS is is the regular, you know, games, files, and a
message area.
---
 * Origin:  Weyr Galifrey - Memphis, TN  +1.901.685.0017 (1:123/75)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 121 of 322
 From : John Kahane                         1:163/198.5     .ÿò 09 .þí 95 17:44
 To   : Jeff Hancock
 Subj : B5 Delays
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
In a message of <Sunday June 04 1995 21:28>, Jeff Hancock scribed:

 JK>> The Brits (and presumably the rest of Europe) are going to
 JK>> be seeing the final four episodes of the second season in
 JK>> June/July; we're going to have to wait until October for
 JK>> them. *sigh*

 JH> Has there been any explanation given for why this is?

     All I know, based on what Joe has said elsewhere, is that it had something
to do with a) the way the contracts for B5 showing in European markets were set
up and b) a decision on the part of PTEN to show the episodes near the beginning
of the 3rd Season here so as to avoid the pitfalls of small television markets
over the course of the summer.

     There may be more to it than that, but if there is, I don't know about it.

     John
.....
The trouble with being a god is that you've got no one to pray to. (SG)

--- GoldED/2 2.42.G0614
 * Origin: JohnK's OS/2Warp Point - Ottawa, Ontario (1:163/198.5)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 122 of 322
 From : John Kahane                         1:163/198.5     .ÿò 09 .þí 95 17:51
 To   : Richard Yamagata
 Subj : B5 RERUNS???
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Tuesday June 06 1995 13:44>, Richard Yamagata wrote the following to Frank
Eva:

 RY> The executives at PTEN decided that airing the last 4 episodes
 RY> of Babylon 5 during the "summer" was a waste of good, first
 RY> run material.  These episodes are not going to be run in the US
 RY> until October, right before the start of the 1995-6 season.
 RY> It makes no sense to me.  My list for Sacramento is:

 RY> 10/01/95  Divided Loyalties
 RY> 10/08/95  The Long, Twilight Struggle
 RY> 10/15/95  Comes the Inquisitor
 RY> 10/22/95  The Fall of Night (season finale)

 RY> The price of peace seems to be missing from this list from
 RY> Channel 31.

     The reason "The Price of Peace" is missing from that list is the fact that
that was the former title of the episode that is now called "The Fall of Night."

     John
.....
Do not meddle in the affairs of wizards, especially simian ones. They're not
all that subtle. (L&L)

--- GoldED/2 2.42.G0614
 * Origin: JohnK's OS/2Warp Point - Ottawa, Ontario (1:163/198.5)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 123 of 322
 From : John Kahane                         1:163/198.5     .ÿò 09 .þí 95 17:54
 To   : Frank Eva
 Subj : B5 Takes
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
In a message of <Wednesday June 07 1995 07:46>, Frank Eva scribed:

 FE> Except that we may not see the season's finale until NEXT
 FE> season! I simply don't understand how they can postpone the
 FE> last 4 eps until next season. This is a major disappointment
 FE> to me. I have sent e-mail to JMS asking him to confirm this
 FE> rumor...

     Not a rumour, Frank, a fact of life.  One that we're not all that happy
about, and one that JMS agrees with us on, even if he can't say so.  To be
honest, it was not in JMS's control, since it's a decision made by the Powers
That Be at PTEN.

     John
.....
"Go ahead, bake my quiche." - Magrat Garlick (L&L)

--- GoldED/2 2.42.G0614
 * Origin: JohnK's OS/2Warp Point - Ottawa, Ontario (1:163/198.5)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 124 of 322
 From : Lawrence E Dunlap                   1:106/2927      .ÿò 09 .þí 95 18:38
 To   : Robert Lidgren
 Subj : Re: EARTH 2/SO LONG Page 1
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 -=> Quoting Robert Lidgren to Steven Wesen <=-
RL> I sympathize with your feelings.  I felt that way too, at times.  I
RL> guess I just WISH the whole enterprise would have packed a more
RL> powerful PUNCH.  And, I'm sure the people working on the series worked
RL> their hearts out trying to make it a success.  Oh well, it wasn't a
RL> waste of time and it does teach us lessons.  I just hope that non-Star
RL> Trek universe series can thrive.  We need all the variety possible.

RL> Cheers,
RL> Robert Lidgren  (1:134/10)

A Infuriated Lawrence E Dunlap is mad as the devil. He now can't bear to not
type the following:

_Earth 2_ lacked sufficient development time prior to premiering on NBC. Most
science fantasy programs which have failed also did so because
meddlesome/paranoid aged TV programming execs where their jobs are constantly on
'the bubble' if there isn't HIGH "TOP 10" RATINGS/HIGH AUDIENCE SHARE
out of the show they champion.

Network TV cannot risk losing advertisers who jump from low rated programs
because that means giving back dollars they've already taken to the bank.

So, rather than redesign the functional system for maintaining/increasing
advertising revenues and network profits, perhaps we should ask instead:
Will future attempts at Science fantasy TV take more time to properly predevelop
a show *before* trying to market it to a broadcast/cable company?

The other reason why _Star Trek_ sells so well is that little scientific
knowledge is required to assimilate the suitably of the shows for TV.
Evidently every previous Non Trek SF show has failed to sufficiently develop
their concept to obviate any substanial science knowledge in the
TV suits than normally believed tolerable by the mythical American TV viewer.

Are *college graduates* living and working *in* Network TV and Hollywood?

Perhaps we can't believe that.

The network sacrifical suits exhibit allergic reactions to any higher math
beyond that needed to manipulate the ancient
abacus, suffer symptoms of Scientific Information Tolerance Deficiency Syndrome
where the presence of Scientific Information
Tolerance is TV Audience HIV poisoning in the eyes of the suits exempt from
network ritual career sacrifices.

These sacrificible suits find low ratings and low market share (from total junk
SF series) fatal to their careers holding
possibilities for greater SF television because the exposed suits are fired
(sacrificed).

Some get several hundred thousand dollars of severance. Most go start production
companies who shy away from SF TV because of their history.
Others get all the way out of video production to mourn the loss of their chief
love

Some problems *are* due to movie/TV film technology, costs and revenues
allocated to development and preproduction suites for future programs.
Most of the main development problems are ideological, not technical

Nevertheless, I submit the above is a explication of the toxicity that science
fantasy holds for television executives.

We haven't started talking about the unwillingness of authors to deed over total
rights for strangers to the style
and concepts of the authors with total power to the total strangers/writers to
completely and absolutely butcher their novels and stories
-- where the authors cannot sue for damages because of television production
guild rules that won't be revised for fear of antitrust inspection
Now the name of an embarrassed author is ever connected with the totally
unrecognizable story/show.

Most authors are paranoid of Hollywood/New York City network producers/writers,
enough to completely refuse to allow butchery power over their work.
Networks will not work with anyone who will not grant such rights bilnd and deaf
to the reality that writers often impose their whim
and values on characters who came with their innate values from that author. I
am being general not alluding to any particular incidents

Some of the details comes between the lines of writings of spurned and jilted SF
authors and script writers for both cinematic and television movies.
Some of this was Gene Roddenberry's reportage and some sprigs of thoughts comes
from _Grumbles From The Grave_ compiled by Virginia Heinlein from the
late Robert A. Heiniein's personal letters to his literary agent.

Do you even want much more or should I stop now?

I think SF television can work, but how authors and network producers and
executives begin to peacably and cooperatively share a joint venture
is unforseeable to me at this time. Better SF will not come from the Big Three
(or do we want to say Big FOUR?)

TTYL
Lawrence E Dunlap
-*- SF-Quick/BW1.00q [#39] -= Message split for length, Page: 1.

--- Alexi/Mail 2.02b (#10000)
 * Origin: Computer Living F'n BBS-Houston, TX 713-444-2927 (1:106/2927)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 125 of 322
 From : Lawrence E Dunlap                   1:106/2927      .ÿò 09 .þí 95 18:38
 To   : Derek Wakefield
 Subj : Re: Star Blazers
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 -=> Quoting Derek Wakefield to Karmin St.jean <=-

DW> On Wed 24-May-1995 10:40 , Karmin St.jean said to Chris Baugh:

KS> The original name of the series was Space Cruiser Yamato, but the ship
DW> was
KS> renamed the Argo in Star Blazers. There were three series created, only
KS> two of which "Quest for Iscandar" and "Battle Against the Comet Empire"
KS> were ever shown on American TV. The third series, "The Bolar Wars" is
KS> available but was not aired (at least not in wide syndication like the
KS> other two.)

DW> Star Blazers 3 (The Bolar Wars) was aired on Ch-66 in Chicago back in
DW> the 84-85 timeframe.  It was offered for syndication, but very few
DW> stations picked it up because of the original "barter" oriented
DW> licencing system used by Claster TV when the first two series were
DW> originally distributed in 79.  It is also practically an uncut version
DW> of the original Yamato III series.  Therefore, in light of the violent
DW> nature, and the "religious war" subplots involved, this probably caused
DW> a number of local stations to pass on it.  There were also a lot of
DW> Japanime shows hitting the airwaves during this period of time; such as
DW> Voltron, Robotech, Captain Harlock and the Queen of a Thousand Years,
DW> etc.  This caused local stations to be a bit leary of picking up yet
DW> another one.

DW> Derek (/\) (1:393/7)

Lawrence E Dunlap (who liked _Star Blazers_) drops in the mess hall for a hot
synthetic coffee and real bran muffins to say:

_Star Blazers 1_ also was particularly adult for a children's audience in
Houston scheduled for 08:30 weekdays.

One episode involved IQ-9 developing a crush on Nova next to the interstellar
destination of the _Argo_. One scene showed the animated and emotionally upset
Nova out of uniform down to only her lingerie slip. and bare shoulders.

Do I need to say more?

_Star Blazers 2_ didn't have such a adult scene during its run that I detected
from daily viewings of every episode.

_Star Blazers 3_ might have had some adult situations that clashed with the
animated program standards.

Why buy PG-13 animated SF progams containing minimally dressed animated females
when you could just show a live action PG-13 science fantasy movie with the
female
lead's uniform at seninude half-mast during some romance?  Kids living in
households
of conservative parents won't be allowed to see that and double-standard adults
will
drink it up.

While I could speculate about the duplicity of such people, it's definitely
off-topic.

I rest my case.

Lawrence E Dunlap
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12
-*- SF-Quick/BW 1.00q [#39]

--- Alexi/Mail 2.02b (#10000)
 * Origin: Computer Living F'n BBS-Houston, TX 713-444-2927 (1:106/2927)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 126 of 322
 From : Jeff Schlenker                      1:288/19        .ÿò 09 .þí 95 18:53
 To   : Patrick Long
 Subj : Ferengis in ST:V  (From Re: Star Trek)
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

-=> Patrick Long was overheard speaking to Jeff Schlenker <=-

 JS>Hmmmm, now that I think of it, there COULD be two Ferengi "scientists"
 JS>in a future episode of Voyager.  They were stranded in the Delta
 JS>Quadrant in a TNG episode from a few years back (3rd season episode,
 JS>"The Price").

 PL> Now that's an interesting thought...

 PL> I wonder how much trouble those Ferengi have caused?  8)

IF they were smart enough to survive.


Jeffrey A. Schlenker               jeff.schlenker@lake-city.com

... Die Hard: Without a Chance
___ TagDude 0.87 [Unregistered]
---
--- < Sig-It > v3.00 by Brandon S. Bell

--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12
 * Origin: LakeCity BBS * V34/4 Gigs Watertown SD 605 886-0849 (1:288/19)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 127 of 322
 From : ROBERT LIDGREN                      1:134/10        .ÿò 09 .þí 95 20:17
 To   : JEFF SCHLENKER
 Subj : EARTH 2/SO LONG
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
-> -=> Rumble was overheard speaking to Ecarey <=-
->
-> Ru> Just letting every one know I am one of the ever growing 25 people Ru>
-> who watch Earth 2.
-> Hey me too!  I'm number 26.  But shouldn't it be "I *was* one who *watched*
-> Earth 2?  :(
->
-> Jeffrey A. Schlenker               jeff.schlenker@lake-city.com
-> ... You're a redneck if: You call your spouse "Cuz".

Since I was the one who started this thread and am the author of the "25
people" concept, I am delighted to see so many people did watch Earth 2 and of
those many enjoyed it.  I figure I can update my estimate to 57 now!

I wonder why there were so few positive comments while the series was a
reality?

What the cancellation has done is cause many to re-evaluate just what makes a
series good, how soon you should unload your guns and savage a new series and
whether or not some leeway should be given so that improvement is possible and
likely.

Cheers,
Robert Lidgren

----------------------------------
robert.lidgren@bbs.logicnet.com
----------------------------------
--- PCBoard 15.2
 * Origin: 32 lines 40 Gig BBS, Realtime InterNet SLIP (403)299-9900 (1:134/10)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 128 of 322
 From : ROBERT LIDGREN                      1:134/10        .ÿò 09 .þí 95 20:43
 To   : ALL
 Subj : BATMAN FOREVER LOCATION W
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Here's some info. on location work for the new movie Batman Forever.
I did not write this but am transferring it from the Batman Forever "Home Page"
on the WWW
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----------------------

On Location

    With the cast and crew in place, director Schumacher and producer
   Peter Macgregor- Scott spearheaded the start of production in the
   place which was the very foundation for Gotham ---New York City.

   Neither of the two previous "Batman" films had filmed on actual city
   streets, relying instead on studio exteriors and interiors. But
   Schumacher, Macgregor-Scott, production designer Barbara Ling and
   cinematographer Stephen Goldblatt knew that "Gothamizing" the narrow
   corridors of Lower Manhattan, which are bordered by massive
   skyscrapers, could give tremendous visual breadth to the film.

   "I wish we could have done a month of work in New York," notes Ling,
   "but in fact we only shot there for a week. I picked out a unique
   street in Lower Manhattan, which gave us the kind of narrowness and
   height quality of what Gotham is to me---towering corridors of
   buildings looming over tightly packed avenues.

   "Exchange Place---just one block from Wall Street itself---has that
   amazing illusion. We added immense sculptures and overscaled signage
   that helped take what is already the giant molding of New York and
   make it look even bigger. We had colored steam and smoke pouring out
   of the sidewalk grilles, which created another sense of scale so it
   looks like the sidewalks are melting into the ground."

   Shooting on Exchange Place presented a unique on-location challenge to
   the company: How do you run the brand-new, top-secret,
   never-before-seen Batmobile along the street without having the entire
   city witness its maiden voyage? The problem was solved by giant,
   moveable slats of flatwood that closed off Exchange Place from general
   view. But later into the night, another shot was required for the
   Batmobile on Gold Street, several blocks from Exchange Place. The
   clock was racing, and rather than place the vehicle into its
   custom-built truck, it was decided for the sake of time to just drive
   it there, with full N.Y.P.D. escort!

   Also in New York, the massive Surrogate's Court Building on Chambers
   Street, a Beaux Arts behemoth built in 1907, served as the exterior
   and interior location of the Gotham Municipal Police Complex. For the
   exterior of the swank Ritz Gotham Hotel, the "Batman Forever" company
   secured the old U.S. Customs Building just weeks before it re-opened
   as the Smithsonian Museum of the American Indian. The crew then
   traveled to Glen Cove, Long Island, where the Webb Institute of Naval
   Architecture stood in for the faade of Wayne Manor.

   But the monumental challenge of shooting began in earnest when the
   production returned to Southern California. The huge physical backdrop
   of "Batman Forever" required more than just a soundstage or two. In
   fact, it required more than an entire studio. For the more than 60
   sets designed by Barbara Ling, the production utilized several stages
   and backlot sets at Warner Bros. Studios, one huge stage nearby at
   Universal Studios, several actual locations in the city of Los
   Angeles, and the entire 140,000 square feet of the imposing Dome in
   Long Beach, which once housed Howard Hughes' massive World War II-era
   transport plane, the Spruce Goose.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

CHEERS,
Robert Lidgren
--- PCBoard 15.2
 * Origin: 32 lines 40 Gig BBS, Realtime InterNet SLIP (403)299-9900 (1:134/10)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 129 of 322
 From : ROBERT LIDGREN                      1:134/10        .ÿò 09 .þí 95 20:47
 To   : ALL
 Subj : BATMAN FOREVER/HEROES&VIL
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Batman Forever info on Heroes and Villains
Note:  All material below is from the Batman Forever
"Home Page" on the WWW

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

New Hero, New Villains

   Joel Schumacher has always been noted for his ability to find the
   right actors for the right roles, as borne out by his previous
   ventures. "St. Elmo's Fire" helped launch the careers of a group of
   then-emerging stars, including Demi Moore and Andie MacDowell;
   "Flatliners" and "Dying Young" were among the first features to tap
   into the talents of Julia Roberts; "Falling Down" effectively
   exploited Michael Douglas' image as an archetypical leading man; and
   "The Client" earned Susan Sarandon an Academy Award nomination as Best
   Actress.

   "Batman Forever" presented him with a rich opportunity to cast roles
   that demanded fearless and audacious performers. The greatest
   challenge for Schumacher, of course, was to find the actor who would
   don the cowl and cape as the immortal title character. When Michael
   Keaton parted ways with the role, Schumacher knew the actor he wanted
   to breathe new life into the Dark Knight: Val Kilmer, one of the most
   dedicated and versatile young leading men in American cinema.
   Schumacher was certain that Kilmer could manage a role whose demands
   range from conveying the authority of a billionaire businessman to the
   athleticism of a nighttime crime-fighter.

   "First of all," says the director, "he's a great actor. He's extremely
   handsome, and has an incredible bearing which can make you believe him
   as Bruce Wayne. As Batman, Val is heroic and sexy. There's also a
   tremendous amount of depth, sensitivity and mystery to Val . . . all
   qualities tailor-made for the role."

   Kilmer recalls his reaction to being offered the high-profile part:
   "It was an extraordinary opportunity, but one that you could never
   plan. The circumstances were all so strange anyway, since Batman is
   such a substantial character and the two other films were so
   successful, and Michael Keaton was so good. I never thought, 'They're
   going to do a third Batman film, and I wonder if they're going to
   recast it.' It was just a happy series of bizarre circumstances."

   By the time he was ready to step into character, Kilmer recognized the
   power of the role he was about to inherit. "There's obviously
   something fascinating and of primal interest to audiences as far as
   Batman is concerned," he says. "The Batman comics deal with the gray
   areas in between good and evil. He's not always on steady ground with
   the community. Batman's compulsion is to extract justice at night, but
   he also has a real sense of irony, in a wonderful comedic style that
   Bob Kane invented."

   The gallery of characters surrounding and frequently opposing Batma
   in the motion-picture series has been comprised of powerhouse roles
   for equally commanding performers: "Batman" presented the Joker in the
   imposing person of Jack Nicholson, and "Batman Returns" gave us
   Michelle Pfeiffer as Catwoman and Danny DeVito as the Penguin. For
   "Batman Forever," the decision was made early to continue delighting
   Batman fans by featuring stellar interpretations of both time-honored
   and original supporting characters. This third installment would
   introduce filmgoers to two new arch-villains, Two-Face and the
   Riddler; a new love interest, Dr. Chase Meridian; and a young man by
   the name of Dick Grayson, who interjects himself into the
   crime-fighting world of Batman and insists on standing by his side in
   a new guise, Robin.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Cheers,
Robert Lidgren
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Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 130 of 322
 From : ROBERT LIDGREN                      1:134/10        .ÿò 09 .þí 95 20:58
 To   : DEMIAN KATZ
 Subj : OPEN INVITATION
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
-> Well, I'm a major Doctor Who fan, and if you can find any Space Rangers
-> information (I know, strange request) I'd be interested in seeing it...
-> Thanks a lot for the previous, and hopefully future, information!

Hi there Demian!  I'll look around for the Dr. Who and Space Rangers stuff.
Keep checking here!

Cheers,
Robert Lidgren

----------------------------------
robert.lidgren@bbs.logicnet.com
----------------------------------
--- PCBoard 15.2
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Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 131 of 322
 From : Greg Mcneil                         1:228/500       .ÿò 09 .þí 95 22:49
 To   : Patrick Long
 Subj : Re: Out to sea...
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

-=> Patrick Long Commented to All about Out to sea... <=-

 PL> Just for warning, I will be out of touch for about three weeks
 PL> starting the 10th of this month.  My wife should be pulling the mail
 PL> down for me to catch any personals that may come in during this time
 PL> period.
 PL> Gotta love the Navy - after all, it's paid for the computer, at least.
 PL> 8)

 PL> ... Listen - can you hear it?     [distant maniacal laughter]


Hey, just don't get lost trying to Find:

1. A B.T. Punch.
2. Batteries for sound powered phones.
3. Relative bearing grease. -yes, there is such a thing, but it has to be
   speicaly ordered from supply.
4. Food for the captain's gold fish.
5. That Red, White, and Blue bouy, that has the ships mail in it.


Sea ya!



... Abolish the ATF.. Save a life neer you!
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
 * Origin: |=[Bloom Co. Hospital>=--- |[GRapids,MI] (616)361-8345 (1:228/500)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 132 of 322
 From : SEAN CASZATT                        1:2601/512      .ÿò 09 .þí 95 22:56
 To   : ROBERT LIDGREN
 Subj : ROSWELL INFO?
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

-> By the way, did you see Kyle in the movie version of "Dune."  It disa
-> many who read Frank Herbert's novelsÓQ@ but I thought it did grap muc
-> Dune's "essence."  What I did think at that time was that Kyle had mu
-> promise.  It turned out to be true.  His aÞAgent Dale Cooper characte
-> winner."

I rented it a long time ago, when it was first released to video...but
I was really not into it.  I was probably too young at the time to get
into it.  I don't remember too much about it, other than I didn't "get
it."

I liked Kyle in THE HIDDEN though.

--- Platinum Xpress/Wildcat! v1.0d
 * Origin: Project Aurora - The Truth is Out There! - (1:2601/512)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 133 of 322
 From : Frank Glover                        1:2613/477      .ÿò 09 .þí 95 23:28
 To   : Frank Eva
 Subj : Re: Merchandizing
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ


FE>  FG>    Probably right...yet one toymaker marketed a series of action
FE>  FG>figures from the movie `Alien' *years* after not only theatrical
FE>  FG>release, but after it had made the rounds on cable and broadcast
FE>  FG>TV...
FE>
FE>  They may have known a "sequel" was in the works, and that it would
FE>  help
FE>  propel their sales, don't you think?

   Maybe, but I had misspoken (mistyped?). The action figures were from
`Aliens,' plural. Not the first film. Specifically they were Ripley and the
Colonial Marines. Even down to the flamthrower. If they knew there'd be a third
movie (which 20th Cent. Fox neednt've bothered with, considering the results)
they wasted their time since Hicks and Bishop were the only surviving
Marines....

  Frank


--- QuickBBS 2.80 GoldBase (Zeta-1)
 * Origin: The Matrix Data Bank BBS, Rochester, Ny (1:2613/477)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 134 of 322
 From : Frank Glover                        1:2613/477      .ÿò 09 .þí 95 23:33
 To   : Mark Jonesep
 Subj : Re: Sliders - Bathroom? Wash
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

MJ>  Yeah!  Like space-dock sized replicators powered by a ring of
MJ>  matter-antimatter reactors.  Build a starship, get it fully equipped,
MJ>  fully provisioned, fully crewed.  Slide it into the replicator dock
MJ>  and scan it.  File the data away.
MJ>
MJ>  When the Borg come calling, send them a message:
MJ>
MJ>  "Crunch all you want.  We'll make more!"
MJ>
MJ>  Turn out starships as fast as you can cycle them through the airlock!

   Um, aren't there some ethical problems with replicating the *crews* too? At
the very least, there's the question of deciding who's killed in action, when
you can just bring out the file and recreate the ship and everyone on it...

   Frank


--- QuickBBS 2.80 GoldBase (Zeta-1)
 * Origin: The Matrix Data Bank BBS, Rochester, Ny (1:2613/477)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 135 of 322
 From : Frank Glover                        1:2613/477      .ÿò 09 .þí 95 23:41
 To   : Steven Wesen
 Subj : Re: ST: VOYAGER SURVIVES
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

SW>  The Idea of Holigramatic crew members or Holigramatic people was
SW>  created by
SW>  RED DWARF months before Star Trek the Next Generation even started
SW>  filming  thier first episode.

   Well, then one could go back to that one-season wonder called `Automan' for
other solid holographic characters...

SW>  I do not want knock Star Trek but there are other forms of Science
SW>  Fiction  they emulate.
SW>  Steven (Merlyn)

   Understood. But it's also possible that there's more than one interpretation
of a real technology (which holograms are, after all, though i've never been
comfortable with the notion of a *solid* one. If you can touch it, it's more
than simple holography, anyway....)

   Frank


--- QuickBBS 2.80 GoldBase (Zeta-1)
 * Origin: The Matrix Data Bank BBS, Rochester, Ny (1:2613/477)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 136 of 322
 From : Frank Glover                        1:2613/477      .ÿò 09 .þí 95 23:43
 To   : Crah
 Subj : Re: ST-Generations
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

Cr>  Thanks! Strange that the rental places will have it before it's on
Cr>  the shelf to
Cr>  buy. Kinda supports pirating copies, doesn't it?

   I agree. I thought it was kind of strange, too. Usually rental and retail are
simultaneous....

   Frank


--- QuickBBS 2.80 GoldBase (Zeta-1)
 * Origin: The Matrix Data Bank BBS, Rochester, Ny (1:2613/477)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 137 of 322
 From : Tony Trujillo                       1:280/9         .óá 10 .þí 95 00:43
 To   : Mark Jones
 Subj : Re: Sliders Continuity
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE 1.11+

 MJ> So far USA Network is the champ at this.  They grabbed Airwolf when

Umm...this isn't exactly the best example to bring up! :^)

 MJ> CBS gave it the axe and produced an (absolutely abysmal) extra season
 MJ> before they started syndicating it.  They also bought up Silk
 MJ> Stalkings and have had great success with it.  And just recently they
 MJ> announced that they're taking on Forever Knight as well.

That;s interesting. I don't really watch much of the USA
network but they do have a habit of picking up shows (like
QUANTUM LEAP) that if I happen to catch while channel surfing
I'll stop and watch.


... "Oh bother!" said Pooh, as his Lugar misfired
--- Via Silver Xpress V4.02B03 SW01177
 * Origin: South of the River - Overland Park KS - (913)642-7907 V.* (1:280/9)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 138 of 322
 From : Starwolf                            1:163/214       .óá 10 .þí 95 02:49
 To   : Frank Glover
 Subj : L.I.S.
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

FG>   And in Lost in Space, they spent most of their time
FG>stuck on one planet. They seemed to know where they were,
FG>they just couldn't get off.

They got off on the first episode of the second season.  Only to crash
on another planet in the third episode of that second season.  They took
off again at the end of the second season and then would spend much of
their time wandering about.  Given such amazing interchange as the
following between Major Don West (the pilot) and Alpha Control:

DW (passing 'over the sun') "We should see  Earth by now, passing by
Uranus and Arcturus."

AC "You are now leaving the galaxy, heading for outser space."

With that kind of piloting and control, makes you wonder how they ever
got off the pad in the first place.

FG>On LIS, their planet seemed to be the
FG>center of the bad-alien universe. Everything seemed to
FG>come out of the blue to happen to *them.*

I could live with THAT.  What bothered the heck out of me was how often
human explorers got to them.  In one episode, Dr. Smith's COUSIN made it
to the planet, apparently backed by a crime gang back on Earth.

 * SLMR 2.1a * Member of 'Nancy Kwan/Maggie Han/Nishida Hikaru' fan club

--- Maximus 2.01wb
 * Origin: Land of Ill Repute (1:163/214)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 139 of 322
 From : Gary Tincher                        1:372/57        .óá 10 .þí 95 11:37
 To   : Earl Green
 Subj : FOX FACTS
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 -=> Quoting Earl Green to Gary Tincher <=-

 GT>Any news on B5 or Kung Fu.?
 EG> Nope, but they're not Fox shows.  The station I work for is also a
 EG> PTEN affiliate, but they've been real quiet lately.  As soon as I
 EG> have anything on those shows, I'll let everyone know. 8-]

Would appreciate that!


                                Gary



... Navy pilot's worst nightmare:  %#.* NO CARRIER
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

--- QScan/PCB v1.17b / 01-0389
 * Origin: Dazed & Confused BBS - 8 Nodes/24 CD's - 803-873-5797 (1:372/57)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 140 of 322
 From : Earl Green                          1:3822/1        .óá 10 .þí 95 17:36
 To   : Ecarey
 Subj : FOX FACTS
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

EC>Earth 2 was an NBC show, not Fox.  It seems perfectly reasonable to me that
EC>Fox would not be distributing information on the fate of a rival network's
EC>show, unless of course the information were that Fox was picking it up after
EC>NBC cancellation. There's been no hint that they might even be considering i

  I included the info for the benefit of any wondering whether it was
  being considered or not; believe me, I know what's on Fox, and what
  ain't! <grin>
     e <-- Earl Green (earl.green@f1.n3822.z1.fidonet.org) 1:3822/1
---
 * SLMR 2.0 * ...and the city don't know what the city is getting.

--- QScan/PCB v1.17b / 01-0162
 * Origin: Jackalope Junction  501-785-5381 Ft Smith AR (1:3822/1)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 141 of 322
 From : Jim Cushing                         1:123/75        .óá 10 .þí 95 17:44
 To   : Dkimmel
 Subj : Re: B5 RERUNS???
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 EC>Warner/PTEN had a brainstorm, and decided to HOLD those last four episodes
 EC>until October, starting the "third season" four weeks early with the last fo
 EC>episodes of season two, and thus getting a jump on some of the other shows -
 EC>hopefully building the audience a bit right before the sweeps in November, b
 EC>getting people in the habit of watching B5 while other things it's up agains
 EC>are still in reruns.

 EC>Many people, for reasons which are mysterious to me, regard this as a Bad
 EC>Thing.

 Dk> From a *fan's* point of view it is a Bad Thing for several reasons:


 Dk> a.) The four shows will air this month in England, which means that
 Dk> those of us getting B5 notes via the Internet may inadvertently pick
 Dk> up spoilers.

 By now you know that the four episodes will not air in the UK until after
 they have been shown in the US

 Dk> b.) The series is conceived in five seasons with each season
 Dk> constructed in a particular way.  It would be like a magazine editor
 Dk> arbitrarily moving the last ten pages of part II of a serial to part
 Dk> III.  Thus the climactic season finale will immediately be followed by
 Dk> the new season while the "de facto" season finale, while dramatic, was
 Dk> not the note the second season was to end on.

 They held back the last episode of the first season and that didn't hurt
 the show. And they changed the leading actor!

 Dk> c.) Because of syndication scheduling this will happen again NEXT
 Dk> year. Why not simply start season three in October, so that it can END
 Dk> at the conclusion of the May sweeps?

 Look its PTEN's decision they pay the bills. To me it makes sense to have
 a strong lead into the November sweepstates.

 Dk> From a business point of view, moving four first run episodes from
 Dk> July to October makes perfect sense because of increased viewership
 Dk> and, hence, increased ad rates.

 Bingo!



... Prune juice:  The drink of warriors everywhere!
--- Blue Wave/RA v2.12 [NR]
 * Origin:  Weyr Galifrey - Memphis, TN  +1.901.685.0017 (1:123/75)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 142 of 322
 From : Jeff Kovach                         1:114/318       .óá 10 .þí 95 18:57
 To   : Jack Butler
 Subj : Crosspost
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On 05 Jun 95  14:10:38 Jack Butler wrote...

JB>      You know you've been watching Highlander too much when you hear
JB> a song by The Who come on the radio, and you think it's too bad they
JB> can't record any new stuff since their lead singer got killed.
JB>
JB>      Jack Butler

To which Jeff Kovach replies...

Who?  Don't you mean Queen?

--- RATSoft/FIDO v1.12 [JetMail 0.99beta9]
 * Origin: STAR*LINX BBS - Mesa, AZ - (602)464-4817 (1:114/318)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 143 of 322
 From : Patrick Thoms                       1:229/510       .óá 10 .þí 95 21:52
 To   : Skip Shayotovich
 Subj : WHAT'S IN A NAME?
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

PT> Highlander: The Sorcerer
PT> I take it you didn't like it.

SS>"Hated it!"

PT>But then we like almost any move with Christopher Lambert in it.

SS>Don't get me wrong... I like Lambert, think he's a very good
 >actor, and like many of the films he's in... but this movie was again
 >not true to the Highlander Mythos.

Well, it was better than that strange HII... It was more like the 1st
and it at least cleared up a few unanswered questions from the first. It
was interesting to see the rookie cop from the first now is a detective
and still trying to put Conner in jail.
---
 þ OLX 2.1 TD þ Those who can't write, write manuals.
--- FidoPCB v1.4 [ff238/x]
 * Origin: OnLine Now  Thunder Bay  ON, Canada (807)-345-1531 (1:229/510)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 144 of 322
 From : Chris Carter                        1:105/302.23    .óá 10 .þí 95 09:11
 To   : Jeff Hancock
 Subj : Vorlon Immortality
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 CC> But when will the right context come up in which to post this
 CC> stuff?  Should I just start posting lost scenes from B5

 JH> Well, you COULD... ;-) Or maybe make a freqable file?

I can't make the files freqable.  I don't operate my own node, and
my uplink cannot be freqed from, since freqs shut his system down
(bug in the software).

I'll see what I can do about getting my hands on the other lost
scenes.  I don't think there are really that many.

 CC> But is the face referred to literal, (like the face of a
 CC> corporeal being) or the Doctor speaking in a more figurative
 CC> sense?  I'm

 JH> Hmmm... I dunno. But I tend to think that if it didn't have
 JH> something that could be perceived as a face (aside from the
 JH> alternate meaning of "a surface"), he might not have used that
 JH> phrasing. Have you ever heard anyone say they "looked upon the
 JH> face" of something that didn't have one?

But I think what's going on here, is the tendancy for humans to
apply human characteristics to things which aren't human, for
lingual convenience.  Whether or not Kosh actually has a face isn't
necessarily relevant to the Doctor's statement, in that the Doctor
was relating an experience he may not have been able to accurately
describe.  "Face" just happens to be an easy word to use when you
don't have a better word for the visage you're looking upon.

 JH> I just kind of hope it's not a huge buildup to a colossal
 JH> joke; such as Kosh really being James T. Kirk. ;-)

 JH> But, JK says otherwise, so... What other type of being would
 JH> give the same impression without being a God/Angel impression?

If Kosh says, "It's Morphin' time!" we're all in a great deal of
trouble.  And you thought the Shadows were bad...

 JH> I'm going to go WAYYYYYY out in left field here <snicker> and
 JH> say that whatever Kosh does look like, it'll probably raise
 JH> more questions than it answers.

That's in left field??!? ;~)  This is J. Michael Straczynski we're
talking about here.

Chris - carter@teleport.com


--- cPoint v2.17/FreeWare
 * Origin: Carter's Conspicuous Consumption (1:105/302.23)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 145 of 322
 From : Lisa Stapp                          1:106/2927      .óá 10 .þí 95 12:00
 To   : All
 Subj : Apollo 13
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Last night, I got an early peek at Ron Howard's next offering.  I have never
enjoyed a movie more!  It isn't just a rip-snortin' adventure, it's grand!  The
script, cast, effects, sound track, EVERYTHING  pulled me in.  I can't WAIT 'til
it opens for real!
If this movie doesn't revive a little interest in space, I am among people who
have been dead WAY too long!!!
* SPITFIRE v3.5
--- Alexi/Mail 2.02b (#10000)
 * Origin: Computer Living F'n BBS-Houston, TX 713-444-2927 (1:106/2927)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 146 of 322
 From : Mark Jones                          1:105/302.47    .óá 10 .þí 95 13:22
 To   : Frank Eva
 Subj : Torres in Faces
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On (08 Jun 95) Frank Eva wrote to Mark Jones...

 MJ> *permanently* transformed into a mere human, her Klingon self
 MJ> dead dead dead...that would have made it worthwhile. We could
 MJ> have had many, many episodes worth of angst. She'd have had to
 MJ> recreate her identity from ashes. How much of what she had been
 MJ> was genetic, and how much environmental? How much of
 FE>
 FE> Ever since TNG, individual Trek characters have become less important
 FE> than the whole. To put this much development into the Torres character
 FE> would not be possible under this philosophy, IMO...

It doesn't have to be that way, though.  In fact, one story idea I'd
like to see them address is a mass defection.

Suppose Voyager came upon a world that was highly advanced
technically, highly advanced ethically, people with warm, friendly,
caring aliens who greet them with smiles and invite them to stay.

And suppose half the crew decides they *want* to stay?  After all, why
spend most of your life in a starship risking death by accident,
attack or simple failure of systems that aren't being maintained
properly (because they *can't* be) when you'll only get back home
after 70 years anyhow?  Why not stay on a very pleasant, friendly
world and build a new life there?

How does Janeway and the command crew handle this?  Do they lock
everyone in their quarters and warp out?  Do they send the security
teams downto retrieve the AWOL crewmen?  (CAN they do that?  TNG gives
me the definite impression that Star Fleet officers, at least, and
possibly crewmen, can quit at the drop of a hat.)

(And no fair cheating your way out of the dilemma either, by making
the world "too good to be true" and painting it as a deliberate trap
or a horrible fate that only looked good at first glance...which is
the standard Trek response to such conflicts, thereby destroying the
conflict potential.  This world really is all its cracked up to be.)

... If you're done speaking freely, please step into the oven....

--- PPoint 1.78
 * Origin: HQ of World Domination, Inc. (1:105/302.47)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 147 of 322
 From : Mark Jones                          1:105/302.47    .óá 10 .þí 95 13:35
 To   : Jeff Hancock
 Subj : ST: The Next Generation
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On (08 Jun 95) Jeff Hancock wrote to Mark Jones...

 MJ> Since the doc is programmed (in his own words) with the full
 MJ> history of Federation medicine, presumably he is aware of the
 MJ> 20th century heart-lung machine...and could have had one
 MJ> replicated (or built by the engineering staff).
 JH>
 JH> Here's something to think about: the lungs, of course, have
 JH> millions of little blood vessels hooked up to them; so as soon as
 JH> those lungs were removed that cavity would have filled up with
 JH> blood. Why didn't he die from internal bleeding, "electronic
 JH> lung" or no? And how did they seal those blood vessels up, create
 JH> the holo-lung, and then connect them back up like that? ;-)

Well, since I think 24th century medicine should be vastly more
effective than it appears to be, I'm willing to let them slide on that
one.  (But they're good questions nonetheless.)

 MJ> Given the frequency with which Voyager is attacked or damaged
 MJ> accidentally, and the power shortages...I don't think being
 MJ> stored in RAM is particularly safe.
 JH>
 JH> True, true. But any less safe than using the holo-generators to make a
 JH> lung?

Yes--if Neelix's holo-lungs fail, he still has about 4 minutes
(assuming he's relatively human in that regard) before irreparable
brain damage due to lack of oxygen begins to occur.  That's time
enough to at least *try* to recreate the holo-lungs (assuming a
momentary power failure) or to put him in suspended animation, or
something equally desperate.

But if he's nothing more than a transporter pattern cycling endlessly
through the buffer, if the power fails...he's gone forever, like a
dropped QWK packet when somebody disconnects your modem!

 JH> MJ>If they just cut to the chase and backed him up on disk, that'd be
 JH> MJ>something else again.
 JH>
 JH> I don't think they have an equivalent that holds that much information
 JH> in a non-volitile form.

Which strikes me as a silly double-talk dodge to avoid doing just
that.  If real-world computers are any indication of how Trek
computers operate, non-volatile storage will *vastly* exceed the RAM
available to them.  Besides, they can always use a compression scheme
on the transporter trace.  They can .ARC or .ARJ Neelix until they're
ready to recreate him....


... Assassinate IRA KGB cryptographers stealing Zimmerman's cocaine!

--- PPoint 1.78
 * Origin: HQ of World Domination, Inc. (1:105/302.47)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 148 of 322
 From : Mark Jones                          1:105/302.47    .óá 10 .þí 95 13:48
 To   : Ecarey
 Subj : EARTH 2/SO LONG
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On (08 Jun 95) Ecarey wrote to Robert Lidgren...

 E > Malls need bookstores, but little mall bookstores with limited
 E > selections are no longer where money is made in bookselling.  The big
 E > money is all in the big stores with lots of selection. This is as true
 E > of independents as it is of the chains.  The independents need to
 E > either have great depth in a specialty area [sf&f, women's,
 E > gay&lesbian, African-American, children's, etc.] or they need to have
 E > the same breadth and the same browse-all-you-want want atmospher as
 E > the chain superstores in order to compete.

Which is why I'm very glad to be living in Portland, Oregon.  We have
POWELL'S CITY OF BOOKS here.  The *main* bookstore is a three-story
building covering an entire city block.  Then there's POWELL'S
TECHNICAL BOOK STORE, a couple of blocks away, a smaller (but still
quite large) bookstore devoted to technical tomes.  And there are, I
understand though I haven't visited them, still other satellite
stores.

And the new and used books are shelved together, so you can look for
*all* the books in a series in one fell swoop when/if you discover a
new author you enjoy.


... Western Civilization died today, after a long illness....

--- PPoint 1.78
 * Origin: HQ of World Domination, Inc. (1:105/302.47)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 149 of 322
 From : Steven Skaggs                       1:3608/250      .óá 10 .þí 95 22:47
 To   : Dwight T. Fidler
 Subj : Re: Star Wars
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12  94-2198

 -=> Quoting Dwight T. Fidler to Steven Skaggs <=-

 SS> When did Lucas give a specific date on when the new movies would
 SS> definately be out? I've heard dates before too but usually from other
 SS> sources...

 DTF> Has He Come Out And Said That There Will For Sure Be More Movies??

 DTF> i've Heard Lotsa Rumours... The Last being That it All Fell
 DTF> Through!


 Yes he has. There was a short interview with him in TV guide several months
 ago. I forget what month and week exactly. It had a picture of the Voyager
 captain on the front of it. He said that the first of the new Star Wars
 movies will be out before the year 2000.

... "The monster gives you a nasty owie!"  -- Anonymous DM
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12
 * Origin: Double Springs BBS Panama City, FL 904-784-6336  (1:3608/250.0)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 150 of 322
 From : Steven Skaggs                       1:3608/250      .óá 10 .þí 95 22:52
 To   : Dwight T. Fidler
 Subj : Re: Star Wars
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12  94-2198

 -=> Quoting Dwight T. Fidler to Steven Skaggs <=-

 DTF> Hopefully Before None Of The Youth Recognize Star Wars.
 DTF> it Was Disheartening When i Heard A Bunch of Yun-Uns Going
 DTF> Around Saying.... What Is Star wars...  Darth Who?
 DTF> Skywalker... What A Stupid Name.  Boring...
 DTF> Oh It Lowered My Soul To Hear That!

 That is pretty sad. Star Wars is still pretty prominant though. There are
 the books, the commercials (Micro Machines and Energizer Bunny) and the
 movies are shown now and then on both the sci-fi channels and USA. And there
 are even quite a few new toys out.

 DTF> What About TIMOTHY ZAHN's??? What'd Everyone think Of Them?

 I think that Timothy Zahn's books are the best to come out so far.

 SS> I think all licenses for the books and all other Star Wars related
 SS> material expire in '96 or '97. Another indication that he has plans.
 DTF>
 DTF> Really.... What Will That Mean?

 Probably that Lucas has other plans for Star Wars.

 DTF> Sorry to Jump In.... And Sorry To Be A Little Ignorant!
 DTF> I Do Love Star Wars Though...

 Doesn't everybody? <G>

... We secretly replaced their Protoculture with New Foldgers Crystals...
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12
 * Origin: Double Springs BBS Panama City, FL 904-784-6336  (1:3608/250.0)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 151 of 322
 From : Tony Trujillo                       1:280/9         .cê 11 .þí 95 05:44
 To   : Starwolf
 Subj : Re: Sliders Continuity
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE 1.11+

 S> Well, they'd better get on with it, then (production and making their
 S> minds up to continue the series).  It isn't "great", but it's a whole
 S> lot better than quite a bit of the drivel out there.

I really like the show because it doesn't take itself too
seriously...which is a quality that's been lacking in SF
series for awhile.

 S> Er, you wouldn't happen to have FOX' mailing address or FAX number?

I pulled this from the SLIDERS FAQ:

>=====================================================================

    Fox Broadcasting has not yet decided whether or not to renew
    SLIDERS for a second season. If you would like to see more
    episodes, please write a *polite* letter expressing your opinion
    to:

         Mr. John Matoyan
         Fox Broadcasting Company
         10201 W. Pico Blvd
         Los Angeles, CA 90035

    In this age of laser written mass mailings, a single hand-written
    letter to Mr. Matoyan may have as much impact as ten laser printed
    letters or a hundred e-mail messages to sliders@dephi.com.

    This name and address has been confirmed by Robert K. Weiss, the
    co-creator of SLIDERS so I know it's accurate.

>=====================================================================


... Don't blame me! I voted for BILL + OPUS!
--- Via Silver Xpress V4.02B03 SW01177
 * Origin: South of the River - Overland Park KS - (913)642-7907 V.* (1:280/9)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 152 of 322
 From : Kay Shapero                         1:102/524       .cê 11 .þí 95 08:40
 To   : Frank Eva
 Subj : Babylon 5 (PTEN)
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Jun 09 06:20>, Frank Eva (1:154/750) wrote to Kay Shapero:

KS>Do you mean you somehow got hold of JMS' files, or just that you
KS>figure you've deduced the lot by this point in the story?  Like the

 FE>Oh come on Kay, do you mean to tell me you don't recognize the
 FE>ongoing storyline revolving around the "shadows" as perhaps the most
 FE>important facet to the story arc revealed so far?

Oh quite likely, but many an apparent insignificant fact may turn out later to
be related TO that storyline.  What effect are all of those "stims" going to
have on Franklin in the crunch?  What exactly has been lost with the Marcab that
may turn out to be of vital importance later?  I'd say the repercussions from
Londo's fight with his best friend in "Knives" are apt to keep turning up - I
don't think there's any question that Centauri politics IS related to that main
storyline.

What you're saying is that given the apparent direction of the story you *think*
certain things are not important to the story and others are.

--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 153 of 322
 From : Michael Lynn                        1:393/7         .cê 11 .þí 95 11:06
 To   : Frank Eva
 Subj : Re: B5 TAPES?
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
      I have heard the ones released in the UK were very poor quality and that
the US release will be of much better and worth the wait.  I would love to see
it released on Laser Disc first.  As far as I know only the pilot and a few
other select episodes are out, I know that the 2 parter Voice in the Wilderness
is included in the list of those recieved.
--- CNet/3
 * Origin: The Bard's Tavern Denton, TX (817)243-5110 USR 28.8   (1:393/7)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 154 of 322
 From : Rumble                              1:163/436       .cê 11 .þí 95 15:11
 To   : Frank Eva
 Subj : I saw the missing Earth 2
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
I saw it in partiall sindication. Would you like to but a copy from me?

--- Maximus 2.02
 * Origin: Coven's Den (613)746-3584=650+ Echoes & 5+ Gigs (1:163/436)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 155 of 322
 From : Allison Urschel                     1:123/75        .cê 11 .þí 95 16:24
 To   : Chris Carter
 Subj : X-Files
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 Hey, out of curiousity, are you the creator of the X-Files? I was just
wondering because the guy who came up with it is named Chris Carter, too.
---
 * Origin:  Weyr Galifrey - Memphis, TN  +1.901.685.0017 (1:123/75)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 156 of 322
 From : Frank Glover                        1:2613/477      .cê 11 .þí 95 20:09
 To   : Starwolf
 Subj : Re: L.I.S.
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

St>  their time wandering about.  Given such amazing interchange as the
St>  following between Major Don West (the pilot) and Alpha Control:
St>
St>  DW (passing 'over the sun') "We should see  Earth by now, passing by
St>  Uranus and Arcturus."
St>
St>  AC "You are now leaving the galaxy, heading for outser space."
St>
St>  With that kind of piloting and control, makes you wonder how they
St>  ever
St>  got off the pad in the first place.

   Another exchange that stands out in my mind to this day had Don West
and Judy Robinson out on the planet's surface, when a thunderclap-like sound
comes out of a clear sky:

   Judy: (looking up)"What was that? An Eclipse?"

   Don: (following her gaze) "No, it was too close for an eclipse."

   I wanted to tear my hair out....

   Frank


--- QuickBBS 2.80 GoldBase (Zeta-1)
 * Origin: The Matrix Data Bank BBS, Rochester, Ny (1:2613/477)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 157 of 322
 From : Frank Glover                        1:2613/477      .cê 11 .þí 95 20:47
 To   : Patrick Long
 Subj : Re: Star Trek
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

PL>  JS-=>Hmmmm, now that I think of it, there COULD be two Ferengi
PL>  "scientists"
PL>    -=>in a future episode of Voyager.  They were stranded in the Delta
PL>    -=>Quadrant in a TNG episode from a few years back (3rd season
PL>  episode,
PL>    -=>"The Price").
PL>
PL>  Now that's an interesting thought...
PL>
PL>  I wonder how much trouble those Ferengi have caused?  8)

   Assuming they even made it to an inhabited world. If I remember right, the
ships they used didn't have much range. They expected to return shortly via the
same wormhole.

   Frank


--- QuickBBS 2.80 GoldBase (Zeta-1)
 * Origin: The Matrix Data Bank BBS, Rochester, Ny (1:2613/477)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 158 of 322
 From : Tom Robinson                        1:244/211       .ÿò 09 .þí 95 14:31
 To   : Mark Jones
 Subj : Re: EARTH 2/SO LONG
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
  *In a message dated 04 Jun 95  03:32:24 Mark Jones writes:

> On (02 Jun 95) Tom Robinson wrote to Robert Lidgren...
>  TR>      I remember tuning out the "who's the leader" thread months ago
>  TR> after they tried to leave Julia behind.  What a crock that was.
>
>    It was actually the first intelligent thing they'd ever done since
> they landed on that stupid planet.  Naturally, they changed what
> passes for their minds in the next episode.
>

  Upon re-reading, I noticed that the crock appears to be ascribed to
the plot twist.  I meant it to relate to the discussion following the
plot twist (Heller being ousted).

                                                            Tom

--- MEBBSNet 1.168
 * Origin: Spectrum BBS  Hamilton, ON  905-388-2542 V.34 (1:244/211.0)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 159 of 322
 From : Dkimmel                             1:101/230       .óá 10 .þí 95 12:04
 To   : Richard Yamagata
 Subj : B5 TALK
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
RY>* In a message originally to John Kahane, Ecarey said:
RY>EE> >E> Yes, I know what their name is: Prime Time Entertainment Network.
RY>EE> >E> But you'll notice, their shows also aren't usually on in prime
RY>EE> >E> time.:)

RY>PTEN "demands" that its programming be shown in the prime time slot on
RY>Wednesday.  My local station use to do this.  It seems that all the stations
RY>are now ignoring this "demand."  They seem to take the position, "well what
RY>they going to do if we don't do as they say?"  It is obvious that PTEN endin
RY>the feed and disolving the contract has no weight with the TV stations.  PTE
RY>with this, keeping the B5 viewers in suspense as to whether the show has bee
RY>renewed or not, has shown that it needs all the "affiliates" it can get.  Al
RY>with the red ink at Warner over the WB Network, I think that they are in no
RY>position to turn away any money.

When PTEN started it was a "pseudo-network" allowing independent
stations to pretend they had prime time network offerings one or two
nights a week.  What's happened is two "real" networks got launched
(UPN, WB) and gobbled up most of the remaining indies.  The PTEN station
in Boston is OWNED by UPN, and bumped B5 to Sunday at 8 p.m. and Fridays
at midnight.  They even dumped the last first run episode (until
October) when a Red Sox game ran over a couple of Sundays ago.
Fortunately I managed to tape the Friday repeat.


 * SLMR 2.1a * May you live in interesting times.

--- FLAME v1.0
 * Origin: Withouta Net - Drop In Anytime! - 617/846-5416 (1:101/230)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 160 of 322
 From : Dkimmel                             1:101/230       .óá 10 .þí 95 12:05
 To   : Frank Eva
 Subj : B5 TALK
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
FE>RY>Lastly, after this, I think that the Janet Greek season finale
FE>RY>written by JMS is going to be something that is going to knock
FE>RY>everyone's socks off and have the VCR playing over and over.

FE>Except that we may not see the season's finale until NEXT season! I
FE>simply don't understand how they can postpone the last 4 eps until next
FE>season. This is a major disappointment to me. I have sent e-mail to JMS
FE>asking him to confirm this rumor...

They will run in October and the decision was made by PTEN, not JMS.  I
understand the business reasons behind this but it wreaks havoc on the
narrative.  I hope they can schedule this better next season so the
season finale actually runs in the spring.

 * SLMR 2.1a * Gamera is really neat.  He is full of turtle meat.

--- FLAME v1.0
 * Origin: Withouta Net - Drop In Anytime! - 617/846-5416 (1:101/230)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 161 of 322
 From : Pamela Crossett                     1:325/118       .óá 10 .þí 95 18:54
 To   : Tammy Blandino
 Subj : spoilers
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 tb> "While skinny dipping Pamela Crossett was talking to Mark Jones."

 tb> "Could you people PLEASE put spoiler alerts in your messages!  DAMMIT!"

Tammy,

i'm sorry, but what is a spoiler alert? i will certainly put one in my future
messages if you could clarify what it is. AND what it is for.

thanks.

and sorry for my ignorance.

pam

--- Maximus/2 2.02
 * Origin: The Ozone Layer, Williston, VT. (802) 862-5058 (1:325/118)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 162 of 322
 From : Pamela Crossett                     1:325/118       .óá 10 .þí 95 18:57
 To   : Gloria Darcy
 Subj : HighLander, The Series
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 gd> "really look forward to next year.  How about you?"

gloria,

yes, me too! although after reading mark jones' post i'm not so sure we weren't
left hanging - but i am glad to hear that you, like me, felt that that was true.

with all the hints that jack has been dropping, i'm wondering who the "regular"
characters are that "won't be back????"

am really glad amanda survived kallas though. i LIKE her!

seeYA,

pam

--- Maximus/2 2.02
 * Origin: The Ozone Layer, Williston, VT. (802) 862-5058 (1:325/118)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 163 of 322
 From : Ecarey                              1:101/230       .óá 10 .þí 95 20:35
 To   : Richard Yamagata
 Subj : B5 RERUNS???
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
RY>The executives at PTEN decided that airing the last 4 episodes of Babylon 5
RY>during the "summer" was a waste of good, first run material.  These episodes

   ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

RY>are not going to be run in the US until October, right before the start of t
RY>1995-6 season.  It makes no sense to me.  My list for Sacramento is:

                   ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Seems like simple logic to me.  They don't want to waste the episodes at
a time when viewership, and therefore \ad revenues\, are way  down.

RY>If you have friends in the UK, they will get to see these episodes in late
RY>July.  I read somewhere that they got pushed back by the Tour de France,
RY>otherwise the plan was to televise them over there, earlier.

It's being said on the Internet now that the UK won't see them til
October, either.

RY>To be more clear on the wording of the PTEN decision, the number crunchers s
RY>that viewership drops during the Summer as people do other things -- than wa
RY>Television.  It seems that they do not know about VCRs.  If I stick a 8
RY>hour tape in my VCR, I could be gone for 2 months and still capture all the
RY>episodes with the commercials -- barring a power failure.  Ry

Not everyone has a VCR, not everyone that has a VCR knows how to program
it, and the advertisers pay for \live\ viewers because it's too easy for
someone watching a tape to fast-forward through the commercials. PTEN
and the stations would lose money by showing the episodes in July rather
than in October.


 * OLX 2.1 TD * If this were an actual tagline, it would be funny.

--- FLAME v1.0
 * Origin: Withouta Net - Drop In Anytime! - 617/846-5416 (1:101/230)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 164 of 322
 From : Ecarey                              1:101/230       .óá 10 .þí 95 20:35
 To   : Tom Huber
 Subj : ENEMY MINE
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
TH>E>Oh, definitely, you NEED to read the original.

TH> > > as far into the future as Enemy Mine did their ending...

TH>E>It certainly wasn't a \bad\ ending, IF you don't know what Longyear did in

TH>Yes, and I didn't read (and still haven't read) the original...

TH>EC>the original. Compared to the original, it's a cowardly ending
EC>tacked on b TH> >people who assumed the real ending would upset the
EC>audience and scare 'em TH> >off.

TH>I've definitely got to chase down the original. Who's the author?

  Barry Longyear.

 * OLX 2.1 TD * Unable to locate Coffee -- Operator Halted!

--- FLAME v1.0
 * Origin: Withouta Net - Drop In Anytime! - 617/846-5416 (1:101/230)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 165 of 322
 From : Ecarey                              1:101/230       .óá 10 .þí 95 20:35
 To   : Tom Huber
 Subj : EARTH 2/SO LONG
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
TH> > > There were some technical inconsistencies that bothered me,
TH> > > especially
TH> > > the concept that the isolated colony wasn't all that isolated and
TH> > > that
TH> > > "big brother" could move in any time and take over...

TH>E>That's because, even though they didn't know it when they arrived, Big
TH> >Brother was \already there\, and had his own plans inconsistent with their

TH>E>It wasn't, in fact, a "technical inconsistency".

TH>Hm. I had problems with the idea that it was such a "big" undertaking on
TH>the part of the colonists, yet BB was there and they knew nothing of it.
TH>If I were whats-her-face (the leader), I would have been chewing and
TH>spitting nails had I realized what was happening. In fact, I would have
TH>done anything to totally destroy BB's presence on the colony world. Now
TH>that would have made for some good writing and shows.

It was a huge undertaking by the colonists in part because it was
\private\ expedition.  They didn't have the government's resources, but
the \government\ DID have the government resources.

As for Devon making destroying BB's presence on the planet her first
priority - HOW?  They were stranded with most of the supplies and
equipment the advance party was SUPPOSED to have lost or destroyed, and
they were a few thousand miles from where they needed to be when the
main colony ship arrived.

FIRST priority \had\ to be survival.

SECOND priority was reaching the intended landing site so that when the
rest of the colonists arrive, there's a base for them - and Devon and
Co. finally have some equipment & supplies.

Getting rid of BB would be nice project for sometime AFTER that, when
they have some \means\ for getting at BB.

 * OLX 2.1 TD * It's only a hobby ... only a hobby ... only a

--- FLAME v1.0
 * Origin: Withouta Net - Drop In Anytime! - 617/846-5416 (1:101/230)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 166 of 322
 From : Dexter Fernandez                    1:203/1701      .óá 10 .þí 95 20:49
 To   : Tony Trujillo
 Subj : Re: Sliders Continuity
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
"So, Trujillo, we meet for the first time for the last time!"

 TT> Speaking of SLIDERS, did it ever have time to spawn a few
 TT> FILK songs? I always thought the song THE MIGHTY QUINN would
 TT> have made a fairly obvious choice...

I was working on one based on "Mrs. Robinson" by Simon and Garfunkel...

Goes something like...

"Where are we now, Mr. Mallory?
 This tidal wave's about to make our day!
 Hey hey hey!"

Let you know when it's done...

 TT> BTW: Is there a mailing address I can send something to?

For filks? Get connected to Kay's Filk echo, or my Trek_Humor_Filk Echo...

Curzon Dex
EchoSliderVolehunter
Moderator, Terok Nor Echo

... All I did was tell Kira what do go do with herself. And she did.
--- Blue Wave/TG v2.12 [NR]
 * Origin: The Itchy & Scratchy Show (916) 721-1701 (1:203/1701.0)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 167 of 322
 From : Jack Butler                         1:363/309       .cê 11 .þí 95 05:18
 To   : All
 Subj : Highlander Card Game
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
     Well, I have some new information.  When last I commented on the
upcoming Highlander card game, the official word was that it was going to
be released in September.  It has *now* been pushed back all the way to
March of 96.

     I'm beginning to thing that this game is a mirage...

     Jack Butler



... "I didn't know you could play.." -- Joe  "I don't." -- Duncan
--- FMail 0.98a
 * Origin: Forethought BBS -=- Orlando FL -=- 407-277-7530 (1:363/309)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 168 of 322
 From : Jack Butler                         1:363/309       .cê 11 .þí 95 07:25
 To   : All
 Subj : Highlander Novels
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
     Okay, here's the scoop.  The first Highlander novel, "The Element of
Fire" by Jay Henders, will be out around October.  The second novel,
"Scimitar" by Ashley McConnell, will be released after that.

     Jack Butler



... "There can be only one." -- Xavier St. Cloud
--- FMail 0.98a
 * Origin: Forethought BBS -=- Orlando FL -=- 407-277-7530 (1:363/309)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 169 of 322
 From : Jack Butler                         1:363/309       .cê 11 .þí 95 07:31
 To   : Gloria Darcy
 Subj : Crosspost
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 Quoth Gloria Darcy, "Nevermore".

 GD> Regarding listening to The Who and thinking their lead singer got
 GD> killed.  I didn't know about this.  Please enlighten me as to the
 GD> situation?  Is it to do with Queen?

     Heh.  Roger Daltrey is very much alive.  However, the character he
in several two episodes of Highlander (Hugh FitzCairn) was killed by
Kallas.

     Jack Butler



... "You better start learning the game, and I mean now!" -- MacLeod
--- FMail 0.98a
 * Origin: Forethought BBS -=- Orlando FL -=- 407-277-7530 (1:363/309)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 170 of 322
 From : Jack Butler                         1:363/309       .cê 11 .þí 95 07:32
 To   : John Kahane
 Subj : Confessions et. al.
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 Quoth John Kahane, "Nevermore".

 JK> Thanks, muchly.  Just do me a favour, please, and give me a
 JK> gentle reminder about this in a month or so.  Not that I'm likely to
 JK> forget, with the post-it on the computer, but you never know... <g>

     Wilco.

     Jack Butler



... "Bibbity... bobbity..." -- S. Strange, M.D.
--- FMail 0.98a
 * Origin: Forethought BBS -=- Orlando FL -=- 407-277-7530 (1:363/309)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 171 of 322
 From : ROBERT LIDGREN                      1:134/10        .cê 11 .þí 95 12:55
 To   : DEMIAN KATZ
 Subj : Dr. Who Guide
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Here is the Dr. Who Episode guide you requested.  It's for season 18 but ALL
SEASONS
are asvailable.


                                SEASON EIGHTEEN


     _________________________________________________________________

Main Personnel

     * Doctor Who: Tom Baker
     * Romanadvoratrelundar (Romana): Lalla Ward
     * Voice of K-9: John Leeson
     * Producer: John Nathan-Turner
     * Executive Producer: Barry Letts
     * Script Editor: Christopher H Bidmead


     _________________________________________________________________

109 5N - THE LEISURE HIVE

     * Writer: David Fisher
     * Director: Lovett Bickford
     * Designer: Tom Yardley-Jones
     * Incidental Music: Peter Howell


526. Part One                30.08.80   6.15pm - 6.40pm   5.9M/77th
527. Part Two                06.09.80   6.20pm - 6.40pm   5.0M/103rd
528. Part Three              13.09.80   5.55pm - 6.20pm   5.0M/111th
529. Part Four               20.09.80   6.15pm - 6.40pm   4.5M/111th/65%

     * MENA Adrienne Corri
     * PANGOL David Haig
     * HARDIN Nigel Lambert
     * BROCK John Collins
     * VARGOS Martin Fisk
     * GUIDE Roy Montague
     * KLOUT Ian Talbot
     * TANNOY VOICE Harriet Reynolds (1,2,4 - uncredited for 2)
     * MORIX Laurence Payne (1)
     * GENERATOR VOICE Clifford Norgate (2-3)
     * STIMSON David Allister (1)
     * FOAMASI Andrew Lane (3-4)
     * UNCREDITED: BITS OF THE DOCTOR (all 1-2) Derek Chafer, David
       Rolfe, Roy Seeley
     * LOMAN Fred Redford
     * FOAMASI (all 3-4) David Bulbeck, David Korff, James Muir
     * BABY PANGOL Alys Dyer (4)
     * ARGOLIN GUIDES AND ATTENDANTS Maurice Connor, Julia Gaye, Annette
       Peters, Mary Rennie, Mike Reynell, Jenny Roberts, Ken Sedd,
       Douglas Star, Derek Suthern
     * VISITORS/EXPERIMENT ASSISTANTS Hi Chang, Ina Claire, Inga Daly,
       Sarah Gardner, Peter Graham, Emmanuel Josiah, Pauline Lewis,
       Ranjit Nakara, Patti Patience, Ansley Pollard, John Salpeas,
       Maureen Stevens, Ling Tai, Anna Van Karina, Willow Wipp, Huntley
       Young
     * TACHYON IMAGES OF LOMAN AND PANGOL/SQUASH PLAYERS/EXPERIMENT
       ASSISTANTS Norman Bradley, Eileen Brady, Martin Clark, Graham
       Cole, Michael Horner, Nick Joseph, Brian Massey, Tim Olroyd, Joe
       Phillips, Douglas Roe, Reg Woods
     * ARGLIN/PANGOL IMAGES Douglas Auchterlonie, Derek Chafer, David
       Cole, Bruce Guest, Eric Hamilton, Mike Handley, Ridgewell Hawkes,
       Bobby Jones, Ray Knight, Ray Lavender, Michael Leader, Mark
       Middler, Mike Mungarvan, Stuart Myers, Kevin O'Brien, Tim Olroyd,
       Harry Payne, Douglas Roe, David Rolfe, Roy Seeley, Harry Van
       Engel, Jeff Wayne, Leslie Weekes, Geoffrey Whitestone, Reg Woods.



   WORKING TITLE: The Argolin

   NOTES: This story introduces a new title sequence (the sixth one used
   for ths show), designed by Sid Sutton, and the first drastically
   different arrangement of the theme tune, by Peter Howell. John Leeson
   only provides his K-9 voice for Part One.

   NOVELISATION: "Doctor Who and the Leisure Hive" by David Fishe
   (1982/Number 39)


     _________________________________________________________________

110 5Q - MEGLOS

     * Writers: John Flanagan and Andrew McCulloch
     * Director: Terence Dudley
     * Designer: Philip Lindley
     * Incidental Music: Paddy Kingsland (1) and Peter Howell (2-4)


530. Part One                27.09.80   6.15pm - 6.40pm   5.0M/105th/61%
531. Part Two                04.10.80   6.15pm - 6.40pm   4.2M/139th/64%
532. Part Three              11.10.80   5.45pm - 6.05pm   4.7M/129th
533. Part Four               18.10.80   5.40pm - 6.05pm   4.7M/127th/63rd

     * GENERAL GRUGGER Bill Fraser
     * LT BROTADAC Frederick Treves
     * ZASTOR Edward Underdown
     * LEXA Jacqueline Hill
     * CARIS Colette Gleeson
     * DEEDRIX Crawford Logan
     * EARTHLING Christopher Owen
     * TIGELLAN GUARD Simon Shaw
     * UNCREDITED: MEGLOS Tom Baker, Christopher Owen
     * GAZTACS Tony Allef, Bruce Callender, Hi Ching, John Holland, James
       Muir, Ranjit Nakara
     * TIGELLANS Michael Gordon Browne, Harry Fielder, Pater Gates
       Fleming, Laurie Goode, Geoff Whitestone
     * CEREMONIAL GUARDS Michael Brydon (4), David Cleeve (4)
     * SAVANTS (all 2) Howard Barnes, David Cole, Stephen Kane, John
       Laing
     * LEXA'S DEONS (all 1,3,4) Terence Creasey, Ray Knight, Chris Marks,
       Eddie Sommer
     * DEON ELDERS (all 1,3,4) Lewis Hooper, Sylvia Mariott, Stephen
       Nagy.



   WORKING TITLES: The Golden Pentangle, The Last Zolpha-Thuran

   NOTES: This story is notable for the appearance of Jacqueline Hill,
   some seventeen years after she played Barbara Wright.

   NOVELISATION: Terrance Dicks (1983/Number 75)


     _________________________________________________________________

  PERSONNEL CHANGES

   Adric: Matthew Waterhouse


     _________________________________________________________________

111 5R - FULL CIRCLE

     * Writer: Andrew Smith
     * Director: Peter Grimwade
     * Designer: Janet Budden
     * Incidental Music: Paddy Kingsland


534. Part One                25.10.80   5.40pm - 6.05pm   5.9M/106th
535. Part Two                01.11.80   5.40pm - 6.05pm   3.7M/170th
536. Part Three              08.11.80   5.40pm - 6.05pm   5.9M/115th
537. Part Four               15.11.80   5.40pm - 6.05pm   5.5M/127th/65%


REPEAT DETAILS
     Part One          Mon   03.08.81   6.30pm - 6.55pm   4.9M/85th
     Part Two          Tue   04.08.81   6.20pm - 6.45pm   4.2M/101st
     Part Three        Wed   05.08.81   6.20pm - 6.45pm   4.6M/92nd
     Part Four         Thu   06.08.81   6.20pm - 6.45pm   6,4M/60th

     * DECIDER LOGIN George Baker
     * DECIDER NEFRED James Bree
     * DECIDER GARIF Alan Rowe
     * VARSH Richard Willis
     * KEARA June Page
     * TYLOS Benard Padden
     * DEXETER Tony Calvin (1-3)
     * OMRIL Andrew Forbes (1-3)
     * DECIDER DRAITH Leonard Maguire (1)
     * RYSIK Adrian Gibbs (1)
     * MARSHMAN Barney Lawrence (uncredited for 1)
     * MARSHCHILD Norman Bacon (2-3)
     * UNCREDITED: MARSHMEN Stephen Calcutt, Graham Cole, Keith Guest,
       James Jackson, Steve Kelly, Stephen Watson
     * OUTLERS Nick Staverson (1), Terry John Wood (1).



   WORKING TITLE: The Planet That Slept

   NOTES: John Leeson's K-9 voice is not heard in Part Three. This was
   the first story in the E-Space Trilogy. Tom Baker announced his
   departure from the show on the same day as Part One was transmitted.

   NOVELISATION: Andrew Smith (1982/Number 26)


     _________________________________________________________________

112 5P - STATE OF DECAY

     * Writer: Terrance Dicks
     * Director: Peter Moffat
     * Designer: Christine Ruscoe
     * Incidental Music: Paddy Kingsland
     * Fight Arranger: Stuart Fell (4)


538. Part One                22.11.80   5.40pm - 6.05pm   5.8M/119th
539. Part Two                29.11.80   5.40pm - 6.05pm   5.3M/136th
540. Part Three              06.12.80   5.40pm - 6.05pm   4.4M/145th
541. Part Four               13.12.80   5.40pm - 6.05pm   5.4M/125th/69%

     * AUKON (SCIENCE OFFICER ANTHONY O'CONNOR) Emrys James
     * CAMILLA (NAVIGATION OFFICER LAUREN MACMILLAN) Rachel Davies
     * ZARGO (CAPTAIN MILES SHARKEY) William Lindsay
     * IVO Clinton Greyn
     * TARAK Thane Bettany
     * VEROS Stacy Davies
     * HABRIS Iain Rattray (1,2,4)
     * KALMAR Arthur Hewlett (1,2,4)
     * MARTA Rhoda Lewis (1-2)
     * KARL Dean Allen (1)
     * ROGA Stuart Fell (3)
     * ZOLDAZ Stuart Blake (3)
     * UNCREDITED: GUARD Alan Chuntz.



   WORKING TITLES: The Wasting, The Witch Lords, The Vampire Mutations

   NOTES: John Leeson does not provide his K-9 voice for Part Two

   NOVELISATION: "Doctor Who and the State of Decay" by Terrance Dicks
   (1981-2/Number 58)


     _________________________________________________________________

113 5S - WARRIORS' GATE

     * Writer: Steve Gallagher
     * Director: Paul Joyce
     * Designer: Graeme Story
     * Incidental Music: Peter Howell


542. Part One                03.01.81   5.20pm - 5.45pm   7.1M/88th/59%
543. Part Two                10.01.81   5.10pm - 5.35pm   6.7M/93rd
544. Part Three              17.01.81   5.10pm - 5.35pm   8.3M/59th
545. Part Four               24.01.81   5.10pm - 5.35pm   7.8M/69th/59%

     * CAPTAIN RORVIK Clifford Rose
     * PACKARD Kenneth Cope
     * LANE David Kincaid
     * ALDO Freddie Earlle
     * ROYCE Harry Waters
     * SAGAN Vincent Pickering
     * BIROC David Weston (1,3,4)
     * GUNDAN Robert Vowles (1-2)
     * LAZLO Jeremy Gittins (2-4).
     * UNCREDITED: SECOND GUNDAN Pat Gorman
     * THARILS (all 3) Pat Gorman, Mike Mungarvan, Erika Spotswood.



   WORKING TITLE: Dream Time

   NOTES: Romana and K-9 leave at the end of this story. This was the
   first story to have Ceefax subtitles.

   NOVELISATION: "Doctor Who and the Warriors' Gate" by John Lydecker
   (alias Steve Gallagher) (1982/Number 71).


     _________________________________________________________________

  PERSONNEL CHANGES

   Nyssa: Sarah Sutton


     _________________________________________________________________

114 5T - THE KEEPER OF TRAKEN

     * Writer: Johnny Byrne
     * Director: John Black
     * Designer: Tony Burrough
     * Incidental Music: Roger Limb


546. Part One                31.01.81   5.10pm - 5.35pm   7.6M/72nd
547. Part Two                07.02.81   5.10pm - 5.35pm   6.1M/106th
548. Part Three              14.02.81   5.10pm - 5.35pm   5.2M/112th
549. Part Four               21.02.81   5.10pm - 5.35pm   6.1M/103rd/63%


REPEAT DETAILS
     Part One          Mon   10.08.81   6.30pm - 6.55pm   5.2M/71st
     Part Two          Tue   11.08.81   6.20pm - 6.45pm   4.4M/93rd
     Part Three        Wed   12.08.81   6.20pm - 6.45pm   5.2M/71st
     Part Four         Thu   13.08.81   6.20pm - 6.45pm   5.0M/74th

     * TREMAS Anthony Ainley
     * KASSIA Sheila Ruskin
     * KATURA Margot van der Burgh
     * LUVIC Robin Soans
     * PROCTOR NEMAN Roland Oliver
     * MELKUR/THE MASTER Geoffrey Beevers (credited as Melkur)
     * THE KEEPER Denis Carey (1-2)
     * SERON John Woodnutt (1-2)
     * FOSTERS Liam Prendergast (3), Philip Bloomfield (4)
     * UNCREDITED: FOSTER EXTRAS Maurice Connor, Michael Gordon-Browne,
       Pat Gorman, Donald Groves, Pat Judge, Barney Lawrence, Mark
       Midler, Jim Morriss, Ralph Morse, Stuart Myers, Fred Redford, Doug
       Roe, Tony Snell, Barry Summerford, Colin Thomas
     * THE MASTER Anthony Ainley (4).



   NOTES: This story saw the surprise return of the Master, starting a
   trilogy of linked stories to reintroduce the character.

   NOVELISATION: "Doctor Who and the Keeper of Traken" by Terrance Dicks
   (1982/Number 37)


     _________________________________________________________________

  PERSONNEL CHANGES

   Tegan Jovanka: Janet Fielding


     _________________________________________________________________

115 5V - LOGOPOLIS

     * Writer: Christopher H Bidmead
     * Director: Peter Grimwade
     * Designer: Malcolm Thornton
     * Incidental Music: Paddy Kingsland


550. Part One                28.02.81   5.10pm - 5.35pm   7.1M/84th
551. Part Two                07.03.81   5.10pm - 5.35pm   7.7M/57th/61%
552. Part Three              14.03.81   5.10pm - 5.35pm   5.8M/102nd
553. Part Four               21.03.81   5.10pm - 5.35pm   6.1M/97th/65%


REPEAT DETAILS (as part of the BBC2 "Five Faces of Doctor Who" season -
positions just for that channel)
     Part One          Mon   30.11.81   5.40pm - 6.05pm   5.5M/11th
     Part Two          Tue   01.12.81   5.40pm - 6.00pm   5.0M/15th
     Part Three        Wed   02.12.81   5.40pm - 6.05pm   6.0M/7th
     Part Four         Thu   03.12.81   5.40pm - 6.05pm   5.4M/12th

     * THE MASTER Anthony Ainley
     * DETECTIVE INSPECTOR Tom Georgeson (1-2)
     * AUNT VANESSA Dolore Whiteman (1)
     * THE MONITOR John Fraser (2-4)
     * SECURITY GUARD Christopher Hurst (4)
     * DOCTOR WHO Peter Davison (4)
     * UNCREDITED: THE WATCHER Adrian Gibbs
     * POLICEMEN (all 1-2) Ray Knight, Peter Roy, Derek Suthern
     * LOGOPOLITANS George Ballantine, Douglas Bather, Jim Delaney, Billy
       Gray, Jimmy Mac, Brynchan Powell, Terry Randle, Evan Ross, Roy
       Seeley, Charles Stewart, Colin Thomas, John Tucker, Walter Turner,
       Peter Whitaker, Bill Whitehead
     * PHAROS TECHNICIAN Robin Squire (4).



   NOTES: Sarah Sutton does not appear in Part One. This story sees the
   departure of Tom Baker and Barry Letts. The story features the first
   extensive flashback sequence (in Part Four). The clips are: The Master
   (The Deadly Assassin 1), a Dalek (Destiny of the Daleks 4), The Pirate
   Captain (The Pirate Planet 2), the Cyberleader (Revenge of the
   Cybermen 3), Davros (Genesis of the Daleks 5), a Sontaran (The
   Invasion of Time 5), a Zygon (Terror of the Zygons 3), the Black
   Guardian (The Armageddon Factor 6), Sarah (Terror of the Zygons 2),
   Harry (The Sontaran Experiment 2), the Brigadier (Invasion of the
   Dinosaurs 2), Leela (Robots of Death 1), K-9 (The Armageddon factor
   2), the first Romana (The Stones of Blood 1) and the second Romana
   (Full Circle 1).

   NOVELISATION: Christopher H Bidmead (1982/Number 41)

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------

Cheers,

Robert Lidgren-
--- PCBoard 15.2
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Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 172 of 322
 From : John Giannini                       1:119/50        .cê 11 .þí 95 14:05
 To   : All
 Subj : Starman
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Does anyone know if the Blue Light Society, the fan organization devoted to the
TV series "Starman" (1988) is still around, and if so, how I might contact them?
This show is probably my favorite show of all time, and I have always meant to
get in touch with them.  I have several issues of the electronic magazine from
the group, (they even had a national convention in Oregon in 1990, with Robert
Hayes and other cast members), but I have never heard of anything since.  Anyone
who knows anything about this, please leave me a message.  Thanks!

--- GoldED 2.41
 * Origin:  The Moonshadow :*: 916.343.0534 :*: Chico, CA :*: (1:119/50)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 173 of 322
 From : John Giannini                       1:119/50        .cê 11 .þí 95 14:18
 To   : Joel Jessup
 Subj : Generations video
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On 06 Jun 95, Joel Jessup wrote to Kurt J. Tischer:

 KJT>> Man, I don't know, but when you get a confirmation
 KJT>> of this, let me know!

 KJT>> I would think maybe later this year, in time for Christmas.

 JJ> I have heard a release date for RENTAL of July 11th with a release to
 JJ> purchase later in the year, probably November/Holidays

Paramount's official pre-order flyer lists Generations as being out on July 18.
If you heard July 11, then it might be coming out early.  Disney did that last
year with Lion King on video - it came out a week before all the advertisements
in the media and video store prebook flyers said it would.

--- GoldED 2.41
 * Origin:  The Moonshadow :*: 916.343.0534 :*: Chico, CA :*: (1:119/50)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 174 of 322
 From : John Giannini                       1:119/50        .cê 11 .þí 95 14:21
 To   : Allison Urschel
 Subj : X-Files
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On 06 Jun 95, Allison Urschel wrote to All:

 AU>  Hi, I'm an X-Files and Voyager fan. Now that Voyager has it's own
 AU> board, what about X-Files? It's a great show, why hasn't anyone started
 AU> an X-Files board.

Hey, Allison!   There is a national X-files echo already on the backbone. I
started the conference back in December.  When I announced it, several systems
decided they would carry it, and with their help, it grew and grew. In early
April I got it onto Planet Connect, and by the end of April I had gotten enough
REC's to request the echo be put on the backbone that it finally made it!
(*That* was a happy day for me!)  Now, there're about 4-5 dozen systems that
carry it off the backbone feed.  Ask your sysop to bring it in it for you, the
tagname is "X-FILES".

 AU>  I live in Memphis, and would appriciate if any other
 AU> fellow Memphians have discovered one that maybe I've over looked.

See above...

--- GoldED 2.41
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Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 175 of 322
 From : Ken Mayes                           1:393/7         .cê 11 .þí 95 18:54
 To   : Brian Henderson
 Subj : Re: B5 Ripoff: DS9
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On Tue  6-Jun-1995 12:37a, Brian Henderson said to Ecarey:

BH> I'll agree, although both LIS and BG had "adult" fans. Let's face it,
BH> who are the majority of ST fans? Kids! That's why Paramount flaunted T&A
BH> all over the screen during TNG, because they were aiming at their
BH> audience. That doesn't necessarily mean that TNG or LIS or BG were
BH> necessarily aimed at a "kid" audience, those were simply the audiences
BH> that they garnered. Even today, the vast majority of Star Trek fans are
BH> males under the age of 16.



        Everything I've ever read about the demographics of Trek's viewership
suggested the vast majority of fans were males between the ages of 16 and 35.
That's why the vast majority of advertising is beer and jean commericials. If as
you suggest the audience was much younger they'd be advertising Power Ranger
action figures instead. Check your facts.



--- CNet/3
 * Origin: The Bard's Tavern Denton, TX (817)243-5110 USR 28.8   (1:393/7)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 176 of 322
 From : David Johnston                      1:342/14        .ÿò 26 .àé 95 01:57
 To   : Frank Eva
 Subj : Voyager Nose Diving?
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
-> most interesting. Perhaps it's because he seems to be more of an
-> "adult" (even though he's probably quite childlike when it comes to
-> understanding the human condition) than the rest of the crew who seem
-> to be fresh out of the academy and just barely beyond puberty. I
-> really

Frankly I don't find Chakotay and Janeway particularly youthful in their
appearance or their demeanor.  Paris, Kim, Torres and Tuvok are fairly
youthful, or more accurately give that impression.  Essentially this
means that we have three mature starship officers and four young adult
starship officers.  I don't see the problem.  The original crew was
every bit as "young".  Only if you are using a Picard median would
Voyager's crew be described as barely post puberty.

--- PCBoard (R) v15.21/100
 * Origin: Freddy's Place - Edm. AB - 28.8K (403) 456-4241 (1:342/14)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 177 of 322
 From : James Heggie                        1:3417/20       .ÿò 26 .àé 95 15:23
 To   : Moderator
 Subj : Help and info
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Hi!  I'd like to introduce myself, and I have some questions regarding
the rules for this echo.  Since I need some info ASAP, I hope you don't
mind my asking them outright.

As the Sysop of ERIDU BBS (and still fairly new to Fido) I am trying to
obey the rules for each echo we carry as I learn of them.  Several weeks
ago, I posted some info (about a guest ranch that I'd "discovered") in
some of the echos, but learned rather promptly that my postings were not
appropriate.

IF I post (or have posted) anything in your echo that was a violation of
the echo's rules... PLEASE accept my profound apologies now.  Most of my
"corrective messages" have been very polite (thankfully) but not all of
them.  And I don't particularly wish to go through anything like it
again (grin - I'm sure you can imagine).

I've made requests via our source for Fidonet for a complete listing of
the rules for each echo in Fido, but have yet to recieve anything.  I
would like to make such a list available to my users (and to reference
myself for that matter).  I will try to keep an eye out for the rules of
this (and other echos).  I was wondering (and hoping) if you wouldn't
mind posting the rules in a message addressed directly to me?  Once I
get them, I will begin compilation of a master list to make available
for download from my board.

I hope that this won't be too much trouble, and I'm also hoping that it
will also avoid improper postings from our users in the future.  I
basically need to know 2 things: (a) If the use of an Alias (handle) is
ok for postings, and (b) what the rules for this echo are.

Thanks for your time and effort in advance!

- James -  (alias "Marduk")
System Operator, ERIDU BBS


InsTAG 1.30 - "Fascinating."  Spock figures out the Energizer Bunny.
--- FMail/386 1.0g
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Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 178 of 322
 From : David Johnston                      1:342/14        .cê 11 .þí 95 01:57
 To   : Frank Eva
 Subj : Babylon 5 (pten)
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
-> According to the latest TV Guide, B5 didn't even rank in the top 120
-> shows this season... What gives?

That's because it's a syndicated show.

--- PCBoard (R) v15.21/100
 * Origin: Freddy's Place - Edm. AB - 28.8K (403) 456-4241 (1:342/14)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 179 of 322
 From : Donald Jaramillo                    1:203/1701      .åò 08 .þí 95 12:42
 To   : Ecarey
 Subj : VORLON IMMORTALITY
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Knowing the world was about to end, Tom Huber and
Ecarey wasted their last moments babbling about VORLON IMMORTALITY...

EE> TH> E> TH> Aside from Enemy Mine, I cannot think of anything in
EE> TH> E> TH> motion pictures that equals B5 for scope. Dune might
EE> TH> E> TH> qualify, but the scope of Herbert's work was left on the
EE> TH> E> TH> cutting room floor.

EE> TH> E> Even ENEMY MINE chickened out - the ending of the movie was
EE> TH> E> vastly softened from the punch-in-the-gut ending of the
EE> TH> E> original.

EE> TH> It sounds like I've got to chase down the story it was based
EE> TH> upon. I

EE> Oh, definitely, you NEED to read the original.

I would second that!  Not only the original _Enemy Mine_ story (not the
movie adaptation), but I'd recommend picking up the related _Tomorrow
Testament_ as well.  Just as powerful in it's own way.

... "Ehdevva sahn, Jeriba Shigan." -- Willis Davidge
... "Gavey 'kiz', Irkmaan?"
... "Irkmaan, yaa stupid Mickey Mouse is!"
... Accept not the absolute rightness of any path.--Shizumaat
... Accept the wholeness of no truth... -- Shizumaat
... As always, it is your choice.-- Shizumaat.
... Intelligent Life takes a stand -- Shizumaat
... Naatha nu enta va Zammis zea dos Jeriba, estay va Shigan,

Internet address: djaramil@ls1.leg.ca.gov


... "You must tell me of the teachings of Mickey Mouse." -- Jeriba Shigan
---
 * Tag-X Pro v1.20 (REGISTERED!!) *
--- Blue Wave/TG v2.12 [NR]
 * Origin: The Itchy & Scratchy Show (916) 721-1701 (1:203/1701.0)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 180 of 322
 From : Jeff Schlenker                      1:288/19        .óá 10 .þí 95 03:57
 To   : ROBERT LIDGREN
 Subj : Re: EARTH 2/SO LONG
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

-=> ROBERT LIDGREN was overheard speaking to JEFF SCHLENKER <=-

 -> Hey me too!  I'm number 26.  But shouldn't it be "I *was* one who *watched*
 -> Earth 2?  :(

 RL> Since I was the one who started this thread and am the author of the
 RL> "25 people" concept, I am delighted to see so many people did watch
 RL> Earth 2 and of those many enjoyed it.  I figure I can update my
 RL> estimate to 57 now!

If we could have gotten... oh say... 20 million more when it was on,
maybe it would be back this fall.

 RL> I wonder why there were so few positive comments while the series was
 RL> a reality?

I dunno.  I guess there just wasn't enough people who liked it.  Also,
the fact that it was up against 60 Minutes didn't help much.

 RL> What the cancellation has done is cause many to re-evaluate just what
 RL> makes a series good, how soon you should unload your guns and savage a
 RL> new series and whether or not some leeway should be given so that
 RL> improvement is possible and likely.
 RL> Cheers,
 RL> Robert Lidgren

What happened to the good ole days when shows were given a chance.  I
remember a little sitcom called Cheers (my favorite of all time) that,
in it's first season, was near the bottom in the ratings.  We all know
what happened to that show, now don't we.  :)



Jeffrey A. Schlenker               jeff.schlenker@lake-city.com

... It's a dog-eat-dog world, and I'm wearing Milk-Bone underwear.
___ TagDude 0.87 [Unregistered]
---
--- < Sig-It > v3.00 by Brandon S. Bell

--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12
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Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 181 of 322
 From : Ralph Strauser                      1:105/314       .óá 10 .þí 95 23:36
 To   : Jeff Hancock
 Subj : Confessions & Lamentation
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12  91-0012

JH>RS> JH> BTW, in Knives, do you think that knob on the rear was put there
JH>RS> JH>for the express purpose of towing Starfuries like that?
JH>RS>    Sounds like typical Military Redundency. Shoot you ever notice

JH>I don't quite follow you here...

    Well if you look at any military system you will find a plethora of
    redundencies. I.E. an aircraft doesn't have one radio for each
    frequency band but two plus the hand held the pilot carries. The
    Gaurd unit i was in had at least 4 radios on each freq band with 2
    in standby mode plus 3 more of each type sitting in the "spare
    parts" space.

JH>RS>that most military rigs have a pto connection on the back axle and
JH>RS>the front of the tranny?

JH>No, I hadn't... but the Starfuries don't have a knob on the front too,
JH>do they? Or do you mean that that knob serves some other function in
JH>addition to being available as a hitch?

   No but they do have the grapple, so that they could fit together
   sorta like legos. It kinda makes sense other than the grapple is
   targeted by the puter. I suspect that it could be done manually. If
   the producers of B5 ever release a set of Tech Diagrams like the
   folks at Paramount did for the trek series's we would find out

JH>I was rather confused during the part where Garibaldi is bringing him
JH>back... did he get flipped around so that his ship was facing forward
JH>with the grapple extending to the rear, take remote control of
JH>Sheridan's ship to tow him or fly in formation forwards, or fly
JH>ass-backwards the entire return trip?

   I think its more a case of no spacial references in space. basicly
   up is where your head is pointing. But i suspect they just flipped
   around though the grappling did bring up for me is could they somehow
   link the weopons systems together so you could use one or several
   furies as a pulse generator for the lead ship.

 * SLMR 2.1 * Nothing is so smiple that it can't get screwed up.

--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12
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Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 182 of 322
 From : Dan Kachoogian                      1:107/953       .cê 11 .þí 95 11:32
 To   : James Walton
 Subj : Re: Garden State Science Fiction Conspiracy Update
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
*** Quoting James Walton to Dan Kachoogian ***

JW>  >          Speaking for the Garden State Science Fiction
JW> Conspiracy,
JW>  >          I bid thee well...
JW>
JW> Just curious, but can't your club find a library to hold your
JW> meetings in?  I say this because a restaurant may be putting off
JW> some people. Not everyone may beable to afford a meal, and the
JW> younger people might not be allowed into an establishment which
JW> serves alcohol.
JW>
JW> The club I belong to, PARSEC, jumps around to various library
JW> branches in our area. (Pittsburgh, PA)  Memebers with small
JW> children prefer the library atmosphere.
JW>

Your point is well taken, however, we are not a literary group. To be associated
with a library implies we are all reader-fen. We're not (Though I personally
am). The point, as I set it forth, was to be strictly a social gathering of fans
of s/f and related s/f genre's.

In terms of a restaurant putting off some people, I agree, that is probably
true. But noone is required to eat, the place we usually meet has no minimum.
                                                       -Dan

---
 * Origin: The Juice Bar BBS (908) 298-0764 (1:107/953)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 183 of 322
 From : Bruce Baugh                         1:105/290.50    .îí 12 .þí 95 01:41
 To   : Mark Jones
 Subj : ST: The Next Generation
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On (10 Jun 95) Mark Jones wrote to Jeff Hancock...

 MJ> If real-world computers are any indication of how Trek
 MJ> computers operate, non-volatile storage will *vastly* exceed
 MJ> the RAM available to them.

Although this cycles back and forth. In the modern day, Bill George
(who as a field tech for Motorola hears all kinds of interesting
things) reports news of work on "hard drives" consisting entirely of
arrays of static RAM chips - megabyte upon megabyte of them. Just
picture a few hundreds of Mbs of these things, all as fast as the
RAM on your motherboard, and all saving their data so that you can
just flip a switch off, and then back on and resume wherever you
left off.

Yeep.

... Colt: the original point and click interface

--- PPoint 1.92
 * Origin: The Home Trepanning Club (1:105/290.50)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 184 of 322
 From : John Kahane                         1:163/198.5     .îí 12 .þí 95 10:39
 To   : Gloria Darcy
 Subj : Earth 2/So Long
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
In a message of <Thursday June 08 1995 18:11>, Gloria Darcy scribed:

 GD> Hi John!  I"m not sure this message was originally mine, but
 GD> I think the question of is Devin really dead was mine.  Nice
 GD> to know she wasn't.  Thanks.

     More than welcome, Gloria.  I thought the final episode was kind of neat,
but the ending with Devon's being placed in the coldsleep chamber, kind of left
me numb...especially given that I'd already heard the word that EARTH2 was a
cancelled series.

     John
.....
Those who do not know their history are doomed to keep stepping in it. (TVG)

--- GoldED/2 2.42.G0614
 * Origin: The Point Away From Home (1:163/198.5)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 185 of 322
 From : John Kahane                         1:163/198.5     .îí 12 .þí 95 10:41
 To   : Chris Carter
 Subj : Mira's Make-Up
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Tuesday June 06 1995 17:48>, Chris Carter wrote the following to Phill Ash:

 PA>> It's my understanding that Mira was beginning to experience
 PA>> dermatological problems stemming from the broad use of
 PA>> prosthetics in her character design.

 CC> Ah, that would explain things further.  Thanks for the info.

     Chris, this is a comment that can be taken with a grain of salt, I think.
JMS has said in quite a few forums that the plan to change Delenn's character to
the half-human, without the prosthetic make-up, has existed since Day 1 of the
series.  (The fact that she was originally meant to be male and then become
female is something else entirely.)

     While it's possible that Mira may have started experiencing problems with
the make-up, I would like to hear that from her.  Perhaps one of the folks going
to Toronto's Trek Fest can ask her about this, and confirm it for us.

     John
.....
"In toto" does *not* mean that Dorothy's dog ate it!

--- GoldED/2 2.42.G0614
 * Origin: The Point Away From Home (1:163/198.5)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 186 of 322
 From : John Kahane                         1:163/198.5     .îí 12 .þí 95 10:46
 To   : All
 Subj : BABYLON 5 Renewal
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
     The good news is in folks!  John Copeland made the announcement on the
nets on June 6th, but it was confirmed by J. Michael Straczynski on June 9th
over on the various nets.  BABYLON 5 has been renewed for a third season!!  If
Nicolai permits, I can even post JMS's announcement here on the echo.

     We can all start to breathe again! <g>

     John
.....
"Mirror, mirror on the wall, who's the fairest of them all?" - A very vain
witch, who should know better

--- GoldED/2 2.42.G0614
 * Origin: The Point Away From Home (1:163/198.5)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 187 of 322
 From : John Kahane                         1:163/198.5     .îí 12 .þí 95 10:48
 To   : Lanae Lauderdale
 Subj : B5 Thought
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Wednesday June 07 1995 19:10>, Lanae Lauderdale wrote the following to John
Kahane:

 LL> Yes, that's VERY interesting! He was asked early on in the
 LL> con, and he said they didn't know yet, but he was expecting
 LL> to hear any time.  The next evening, he told us that he had
 LL> just received the news!  That was like April 28 or 29. Oh
 LL> well, I hope it IS renewed!

     See my previous post.  We can all breathe a sigh of relief, now. :)

     John
.....
Some realities are more allegorical than others.

--- GoldED/2 2.42.G0614
 * Origin: The Point Away From Home (1:163/198.5)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 188 of 322
 From : Earl Green                          1:3822/1        .îí 12 .þí 95 12:22
 To   : Lisa Stapp
 Subj : APOLLO 13
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

LS>Last night, I got an early peek at Ron Howard's next offering.  I have never
LS>enjoyed a movie more!  It isn't just a rip-snortin' adventure, it's grand!
LS>The script, cast, effects, sound track, EVERYTHING  pulled me in.

  I've got two questions: when does it open, and out of interest since
  you seemed to go out of your way to mention it, who did the music?
     e <-- Earl Green (earl.green@f1.n3822.z1.fidonet.org) 1:3822/1
     LogBook & Master Index file author / LogBook newsletter editor
     Ask me about the LogBook fanzine covering Trek, Babylon 5 & more!
---
 * SLMR 2.0 * You may get an unpleasant sensation of chloroform.

--- QScan/PCB v1.17b / 01-0162
 * Origin: Jackalope Junction  501-785-5381 Ft Smith AR (1:3822/1)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 189 of 322
 From : John Kahane                         1:163/198.5     .îí 12 .þí 95 12:47
 To   : Frank Eva
 Subj : Babylon 5 (Pten)
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Friday June 09 1995 06:20>, Frank Eva wrote the following to Brian
Henderson:

 BH>> Which is very true. B5 isn't "accepted" because B5 doesn't
 BH>> have a big corporation the keeps throwing money at it in
 BH>> almost limitless amounts.

 FE> According to the latest TV Guide, B5 didn't even rank in the
 FE> top 120 shows this season... What gives?

     For one thing, TV Guide's ranking of the top 120 shows is one that is
based more firmly in the Network-oriented shows than the non-Network stuff.
While ST: TNG and some of the spin-offs may show up in the rankings, I wouldn't
be worried about B5 not showing up in the rankings.  The figures that JMS has
provided in various posts on CIS and GEnie over the last few years have been
pretty good, and are stuff that come in direct to the PTEN and Babylonian
Productions offices.

     John
.....
Teenagers are God's punishment for enjoying sex!

--- GoldED/2 2.42.G0614
 * Origin: The Point Away From Home (1:163/198.5)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 190 of 322
 From : John Kahane                         1:163/198.5     .îí 12 .þí 95 12:50
 To   : Frank Eva
 Subj : Kosh, Kosh
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Friday June 09 1995 06:21>, Frank Eva wrote the following to Jeff Hancock:

 JH>FE>> Probably the same way he feels about the B5 comics, which
 JH>FE>> also don't
 JH>> So how is that, then? I didn't think you had contact with JMS.

 FE> Just guessing, but it seems obvious to me that JMS is not going
 FE> to let the B5 comics or novels advance the main storyline of B5:
 FE> The TV Series.

     While this is certainly true of the books to some extent, I think, you may
find you're wrong about the comics.  The current story arc going on in the B5
comic, with Garibaldi and Keffer on Mars dealing with Shadows, is relating to
the past when Sinclair first met Garibaldi...  A couple of things that Garibaldi
has said in the series and the comics relate, believe it or not.

 JH>> Partially, although I don't remember/haven't seen that one;
 JH>> JK told me about it. I'm just guessing at it being
 JH>> reminiscent of the classic portrayal of angels/God in some
 JH>> way without being too obvious/cheesy.

 FE> Last season, because of this episode, I speculated that Kosh's
 FE> people were "energy beings", but then I was reminded that they
 FE> do need an artificial "environment" inside B5, and that Kosh
 FE> had actually been poisoned in one episode, both of which seem
 FE> to imply more than an energy being is inside that encounter
 FE> suit...

     Both you and Jeff, and some of the other folks around the echoes, need to
watch "The Gathering" again, Frank.  Particularly the sequence with Dr. Kyle
doing his medical research on Kosh's conditions, and some of the diagnostics
that are being recorded about Kosh.  There is clear evidence there that
he/she/it is organic in nature.  Blood cells, crystalline structure,
respiration, cardiovascular system, and all.

     This doesn't relate one way or the other to angels or anything along these
lines, but we'll have to see...  Personally, I don't think it's going to be
angels or any other religious figure - that would be cheesy, and doesn't seem to
be in keeping with the sf nature of the series.

     John
.....
They got the library at Alexandria, but they're not getting mine!

--- GoldED/2 2.42.G0614
 * Origin: The Point Away From Home (1:163/198.5)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 191 of 322
 From : Nicole Wilson                       1:271/266       .îí 12 .þí 95 17:00
 To   : Robert Lidgren
 Subj : EARTH 2/SO LONG
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

RL>people" concept, I am delighted to see so many people did watch Earth 2 and
RL>those many enjoyed it.  I figure I can update my estimate to 57 now!

I guess I'm 58? and don't forget to add the 60 or so people in the
Earth2 fido echo, as well as the rather sizeable (hundreds) group on
AOL, and the groups of similar sizes on GEnie, Prodigy, Delphi,
Compuserve and the Usenet, (alt.tv.earth2) as well as the WWW pages (4
run by MCA, and 5 fan-run pages) which are being visited rather
frequently. I can't believe everything that's been going on as far as
Earth 2 is concerned. Earth 2 stuff is everywhere on the nets.

RL>I wonder why there were so few positive comments while the
RL>series was a reality?

There were, just not in this echo.
(Most E2ers lobby around the "Official" fan groups.)

RL>What the cancellation has done is cause many to re-evaluate just what makes
RL>series good, how soon you should unload your guns and savage a new series an
RL>whether or not some leeway should be given so that improvement is possible a
RL>likely.

I agree with that assesment.
One thing that has popped up is that there are litrally hundreds of fans
rallying to revive the show, and fan groups have popped up.

                      --Nicole Wilson
                         Member, Earth 2 Foundations
                           and East Coast Earth 2 fan club

---
 þ OLX 2.2 þ "Yea, maybe they'll call it `Hell.'"-Julia Heller,Earth 2

--- QScan/PCB v1.16b / 01-0765
 * Origin: Olympus BBS, Newport News Va. 804-595-0117 (1:271/266)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 192 of 322
 From : Seth Horne                          1:129/260       .îí 12 .þí 95 17:56
 To   : All
 Subj : bABYLON5
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Yo everyone...How exactly does the Jumpgate technology work, I mean, doesn't it
bend space or something?
Also, did they every describe the specification of those phat star furies??
They said that B5 was only 5 miles long. The inside views, when you look out
their windows, look so unrealistic. And when you look out at the whole view, it
doesn't even look 2 miles long. Shouldn't a station like that be important and
big? And what is that planet it is orbiting around?


--- Opus-CBCS 1.73a
 * Origin: ConFluence '95 goes to Mars! (1:129/260.0)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 193 of 322
 From : Myra I Fox                          1:123/10        .îí 12 .þí 95 18:24
 To   : Jack Butler
 Subj : FitzCairn
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

-=>Quoting Jack Butler to Gloria Darcy<=-

 JB> Heh.  Roger Daltrey is very much alive.  However, the character
 JB> he in several two episodes of Highlander (Hugh FitzCairn) was killed by
 JB> Kallas.

I really liked him too <sigh>.  He was a good humerous companion
to pop up in the series - a balance to Duncan's rather serious
nature.



... "Marvelous thing, technology!" Kalas
--- RA/FD/FMail.98
 * Origin: The Electric Fox - Memphis,Tn. (901)327-1008 (1:123/10)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 194 of 322
 From : Kay Shapero                         1:102/524       .îí 12 .þí 95 19:20
 To   : Jeff Hancock
 Subj : Vorlon Immortality
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Jun 10 01:47>, Jeff Hancock (1:3600/7) wrote to John Kahane:

 JH>suspicion at the least, unless those particular Shadows don't
 JH>know diddley about those ancient wars. Wouldn't the very name
 JH>"Vorlons" tip them off? ;-)

Maybe they called themselves something else back then?

 JH>Thanks for the refresh. How did Lyta scan Kosh through the suit,
 JH>unless she's more powerful than Talia?

She didn't  - she took off her glove and reached in through the hole Kyle had
opened in the suit.  It didn't look like she actually touched him, but close.
(I just watched The Gathering today - kicking off my own personal one episode
per day Babylonathon for the summer.  :->)

--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 195 of 322
 From : Kay Shapero                         1:102/524       .îí 12 .þí 95 19:31
 To   : Jeff Hancock
 Subj : Sliders - Bathroom? Wash
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Jun 10 15:03>, Jeff Hancock (1:3600/7) wrote to Mark Jones:

MJ>When the Borg come calling, send them a message:
MJ>"Crunch all you want.  We'll make more!"
MJ>Turn out starships as fast as you can cycle them through the airlock!

 JH>Somehow this strikes me as having as much effect as raindrops
 JH>hitting the sidewalk.

Ever witness a flash flood?

--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 196 of 322
 From : Tony Limbert                        1:2215/420      .îí 12 .þí 95 19:58
 To   : Tom Huber
 Subj : ENEMY MINE
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
While summoning Cthulhu, I overheard Ecarey say :


 TH>I've definitely got to chase down the original. Who's the author?

 Ec> Barry Longyear.

You can find a copy of the story in the anthology "REEL FUTURES", along
with the original stories for [digging book up] ...

The Empire of the Ants
Herbert West - Re-animator    [The Re-Animator]
Armageddon 2419 A.D.          [Buck Rogers TV show]
Who Goes There?               [The Thing]
Farewell to the Master        [Day the Earth Stood Still]
This Island Earth
The Illustrated Man
The Sentinel                  [2001: A Space Odyssey]
The Seventh Victim            [The Tenth Victim]
The Racer                     [Death Race 2000]
The Fly
Eight O'Clock in the Morning  [They Live!]
We Can Remember It For You    [Total Recall]
   Wholesale
Damnation Alley
Enemy Mine
Air Raid                      [Millennium]

I bought it for $5.00 at B. Dalton (it was on sale). Might still be in the
bargan bin at your local bookstore.

Tony Limbert

[ Limbert@corp.aldhfn.com ]

... "One grows tired of everything.  Except power.  " -- The Doctor
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12


--- PCBoard (R) v15.21/M 2
 * Origin: New Visions, PCBoard 15.21, Kent/Ohio 216-677-1040/9812 (1:2215/420)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 197 of 322
 From : Derek Wakefield                     1:393/7         .òp 13 .þí 95 02:58
 To   : Lawrence E Dunlap
 Subj : Re: Star Blazers
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On Fri  9-Jun-1995 18:38 , Lawrence E Dunlap said to Derek Wakefield:

LD> _Star Blazers 1_ also was particularly adult for a children's audience in
LD> Houston scheduled for 08:30 weekdays.

It was shown at 15:30 in the Dallas/Ft Worth Area, while in the North East it
was generally broadcast at 06:30.  Still not a very flattering timeslot for such
an adult oriented show.

LD> One episode involved IQ-9 developing a crush on Nova next to the
LD> interstellar destination of the _Argo_. One scene showed the animated and
LD> LD> emotionally upset Nova out of uniform down to only her lingerie slip.
LD> and LD> bare shoulders.

LD> Do I need to say more?

The former happened during ep-16 when Nova and IQ-9 went down to Planet
Beemera/Beeland, however they cut the part of IQ-9 flipping up her skirt in the
mess hall in that ep.  The second scene never appeared in Star Blazers, having
ended up as part of the goodies on the cutting room floor.  As did the shot of
Nova in the buff during the Argo's first space warp (ep-4) and IQ-9 placing one
of his hands on her posterior in ep-6 when the two of them and Wildstar were
flying down to Saturn-Titan in search of a rare mineral known as Titanite.

LD> _Star Blazers 2_ didn't have such a adult scene during its run that I
LD> detected from daily viewings of every episode.

There were a number of adult scenes in Yamato 2, but all were chopped out of the
Americanized Star Blazers.  A few that come to mind include the shot of
Tokugawa/Orion relieving himself on the side of the drydock when they first
demonstrated the Time Radar, and Kato/Conroy doing the same when he noticed the
Andromeda following the ship a few episodes later.  The closest we got to actual
nudity was when Nova's uniform ripped in the space cyclone a number of episodes
later.

LD> _Star Blazers 3_ might have had some adult situations that clashed with
LD> the animated program standards.

In fact, other than IQ flipping Nova's skirt once early in the series (which was
cut out), there wasn't much there to begin with.  Other than the love scene
between Wildstar and Nova in Final Yamato, and the nude Teresa/Trelania in
Arrivederci Yamato, first season was the most explicit of the shows (if once
could call it that).

LD> Why buy PG-13 animated SF progams containing minimally dressed animated
LD> females when you could just show a live action PG-13 science fantasy movie
LD> LD> with the female lead's uniform at seninude half-mast during some
LD> romance?  LD> Kids living in households of conservative parents won't be
LD> allowed to see LD> that and double-standard adults will drink it up.

Well, in regards to Yamato/Star Blazers, while a romantic oriented yarn, there
was a general lack of love making throughout the run of the saga.  From what
I've seen of Yamato 2520, they've already laid the ground work for a more risque
plotline (based on some of the dialogue running between Nambu and Marcy).  There
was room for it in the original, but the producers I suspect decided to keep the
main emphasis on the space wars, as opposed to the interpersonal relationships.


Derek (/\).
--- CNet/3
 * Origin: The Bard's Tavern Denton, TX (817)243-5110 USR 28.8   (1:393/7)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 198 of 322
 From : Myranya Werlemann                   2:283/1701      .òp 13 .þí 95 07:52
 To   : All
 Subj : "V" fan club.
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Hi everyone,
Does anyone know if there's a "V" fan club still active,
and if there is, what's the address? Any info will be
appreciated... Any country, any planet... <G>

Greetx from the Mothership,

Myranya.

... "Where'd you get the uniform?" "They had a sale."
--- Blue Wave/RA v2.12 [NR]
 * Origin: EMICLAER BBS +31-33-553286 (2:283/1701)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 199 of 322
 From : Tom Huber                           1:115/477       .îí 12 .þí 95 02:45
 To   : Robert Lidgren
 Subj : EARTH 2/SO LONG
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.11  94-0102

  >-> were whats-her-face (the leader), I would have been chewing and spitting
  >-> nails had I realized what was happening. In fact, I would have done
  >anything
  >-> to totally destroy BB's presence on the colony world. Now that would have
  >-> made for some good writing and shows.

RL>Gee, why didn't they hire YOU as a STORY CONSULTANT.  Nifty idea!  It would
  >have been absolutely GREAT to see Devon go ballistic and work to screw up
  >this
  >Big Brother-type organization.  Hell, she could enlist the aggresive hormone
  >of Danzigger too to get the job done!

Heh! I've got my own SF series in the works and although it is
considerably different from Earth 2 (or Trek, for that matter), there
are a lot of complex social issues around. There are a lot of politics
in the story, and those that come to realize what is happening find ways
to work the system to their advantage... Of course, I wouldn't have to
write SF to tell that story today - there's enough of that already
happening.

It takes the reader well into the third novel to find out the mystery
set up in the first novel. And each story runs in the neighborhood of
180,000 words, about twice the size of the typical Trek book (for want
of a better comparison).

What is really scary about the whole thing (especially the mystery) is
that that situation (suggested by the story) is rapidly becoming
something that will be necessary in our own time and technology.

Most SF that is really interesting takes place roughly 20 minutes into
the future. <smile> Bring back Max Headroom!

Tom

--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.11
 * Origin: StarSpawn BBS, A MidWest FurNet BBS 616-983-1834  (1:115/477.0)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 200 of 322
 From : Tom Huber                           1:115/477       .îí 12 .þí 95 02:50
 To   : Robert Lidgren
 Subj : B5 VS ST              1/2
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.11  94-0102

RL>You are probably right about Asimov but, what the heck, even at less than hi
  >peak Isaac wrote brilliantly.  I especially enjoyed his straight science
  >articles and books.  There has never been ANY writer to equal him in his
  >ability to make complex scientific concepts understandable.  This was
  >especially true in his science articles in "Fantasy and Science Fiction"
  >magazine.

So very, very true. What I find is that so many people want to claim
that Robert Heinlein is the "best" SF author of all time. I disagree,
and lay that title as Asimov's feet. What Heinlein was, was the ultimate
marketeer. He knew what to write for the time that he wrote it. While
the stories were good, I found Heinlein's politics too much of the
central issue (a good example is his relatively late "Friday" novel).

Asimov had politics, but they weren't an extension of today. More what
we might see in the future. I've done the same thing with my series and
used a "what if" approach to today's social problems. What if we passed
such and such a law? What would be the impact upon society and what kind
of problems might arise because of such a law? That's a central theme to
the first Star Spawn novel and an associated short story. The resulting
answer to the question is that it is a *bad* law. Yet, we have people in
power that would love to pass just such a restrictive law (or laws). I
won't go any further, but it is a major problem that our society faces
today, and gets too far off the SF theme of this echo to discuss (at
least, until the novels start to be published).

Tom

--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.11
 * Origin: StarSpawn BBS, A MidWest FurNet BBS 616-983-1834  (1:115/477.0)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 201 of 322
 From : Tom Huber                           1:115/477       .îí 12 .þí 95 02:56
 To   : Robert Lidgren
 Subj : B5 VS ST              1/2
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.11  94-0102

RL>Khan has always stood out as a terrific antagonist because he had:

RL>     1.  Sufficient "brawn" to satisfy those who thrive on WWF wrestling.

ROFLMYO!

  >     2.  An intellect that put Kirk to the test mightily.

This is what I appreciated. I pulled that story a notch above the rest.
They (Paramount) attempted to duplicate this in the last OS movie with
the Klingons. However, it just didn't work. The story was too flawed by
uneven performances and writing. Again, too much in the FX department
and not enough concentration on the story line or characters. Plummer's
Klingon was too shallow - or not convincing - I'm not sure which.

  >     3.  A sufficiently "likeable" nature that we didn't ENTIRELY hate the
  >guy.

Yup. Khan had an element that *demanded* sympathy on the part of the
viewer. Plummer didn't pull this off with his character. Maybe part of
the problem was that there wasn't a central "bad guy" but rather, a
movement of "misguided" people in Trek 6.

  >     4.  A real "draw" or charisma that made him have considerable loyalty
  >         from his followers.  Compare, say, Captain Bligh from "Mutiny on th
  >         Bounty."  He was hated by some of the crew but his leadership
  >allowed
  >         those with him to survive a 3,000 open-ocean journey in an open
  >         life-boat.  In the same way, Khan's leadership helped HIS followers
  >         survive very nasty conditions on the planet ofuEB+= exile

Absolutely. Even in the original "Space Seed," you could see this. For
as old as that story is, it still holds up remarkably, even with the
stereotypical (for the time) attraction by the female scientist to Khan.

Tom

--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.11
 * Origin: StarSpawn BBS, A MidWest FurNet BBS 616-983-1834  (1:115/477.0)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 202 of 322
 From : Frank Eva                           1:154/750       .îí 12 .þí 95 08:00
 To   : John Kahane
 Subj : Confessions & Lamentation
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: FastEcho 1.42.bA 8060

JK>     The really neat thing is that the business with the Markabs is
JK>not the "decimation of a major race's homeworld" that JMS has been
JK>hinting at for a while.  Looks like the dying hasn't even started
JK>yet.

Why do you say that? Couldn't it still be the Markabs that JMS was
talking about when he said we'd see the "decimation of a major race's
homeworld"?

---
 * Origin: *YOPS ]I[* 3.1 GIG * RA/FD/FE RADist * Milwaukee, WI (1:154/750)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 203 of 322
 From : Frank Eva                           1:154/750       .îí 12 .þí 95 08:00
 To   : John Kahane
 Subj : Mira and Delenn
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: FastEcho 1.42.bA 8060

JK> FE> Agreed! However, she still looks better than she did in the
JK> FE> pilot. She looked almost manly, then...

JK>     She was *meant* to look manly in "The Gathering," Frank. :)

Why? What was JMS thinking? That the Minbari would be unisexual aliens
or something?

---
 * Origin: *YOPS ]I[* 3.1 GIG * RA/FD/FE RADist * Milwaukee, WI (1:154/750)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 204 of 322
 From : Frank Eva                           1:154/750       .îí 12 .þí 95 08:00
 To   : Michelle Willey
 Subj : Babylon 5 (PTEN)
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: FastEcho 1.42.bA 8060

MW>Now B5 has become almost an addiction with me. This surprises me
MW>since I couldn't even sit thru the pilot movie. The episodes just

It's surprising how well B5 is doing with sci-fi afficionados, even
after the rather disappointing pilot and a wait of almost a year before
the actual series began!

MW>keep getting better and the characters are strong, realistic, easy to
MW>identify with. The only thing I don't care for just now is what has
MW>been done to Delenn's character. If the show is cancelled before the
MW>story is done, I hope the books will at least tell us what happens.
MW>IMO, the aliens on B5 are better than the ones on NextGen. The
MW>NextGen ones don't bother me or anything, but after awhile they start
MW>to look alike. Don't really _seem_ alien or even very strange.

Exactly my thought about TNG (as well as DS9). You're right... The
aliens never seemed to be much more than humans with some sort of facial
appliance added...

MW>The same goes for Voyager populations. But B5 has some
MW>really creepy things walking around (or fading in and out). I guess I
MW>just like the *dark* element that runs as an under current in B5 and
MW>the humor is pretty good as well.

Yes, the dark element does seem to add a measure of intrigue you don't
get in any trek today. I think this may be why The X-Files is so
popular, too!

--- CMPQwk 1.42-R2 #145 ---
In his confusion, Kirk uses Scotty as toilet tissue...

---
 * Origin: *YOPS ]I[* 3.1 GIG * RA/FD/FE RADist * Milwaukee, WI (1:154/750)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 205 of 322
 From : Frank Eva                           1:154/750       .îí 12 .þí 95 08:00
 To   : Bruce Baugh
 Subj : B5 Franchising
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: FastEcho 1.42.bA 8060

BB>JMS has never taken "a hard line" against franchising. He's taken a
BB>hard line against schlock. From what I hear, the MicroMachines
BB>models are well-done. Which is fine.

Hmmm... He seemed to be making a point against all franchising in the
episode in which a teddy bear was 'spaced'...

BB>He's never quite come out and said, "The B5 novels bite the wax
BB>tadpole." But he's sure danced up to the edge of saying that; it
BB>sounds like the deal he ended up with there is not the deal he
BB>thought he had, and any hypothetical future books are going to be
BB>written by people _he_ picks, rather than assigned to him by the
BB>publisher.

I don't care who he picks to write them, if he doesn't allow them to
advance the storyline in any way...

BB>By the way, I must say that I don't think much of your complaint
BB>about the comic not advancing the arc. What did you expect?

I never expected anything out of the comic book. I was hoping for more
and got less. I have learned my lesson and will not buy another issue.

BB>point of the TV show is that it should stand on its own - people
BB>shouldn't _have_ to get anything but the show to follow the major
BB>developments. We are fortunate in having secondary media that affect
BB>the show at all: compare the Trek novels and comics, with their
BB>total disconnection from the show.

This is an UNfortunate consequence of there being a 5 year story "arc",
which is something trek never had. Trek novelists had leeway to make
good original sci-fi stories. All we get from B5 novelists is 'cloak and
dagger' and 'murder-they-wrote'.

BB>Back at the screed, then, I think you've misunderstood JMS' original
BB>position.

Again, I am only stating my personal opinions. Whether they conflict
with JMS' position or not is irrelevant. They're still my OPINIONS!

---
 * Origin: *YOPS ]I[* 3.1 GIG * RA/FD/FE RADist * Milwaukee, WI (1:154/750)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 206 of 322
 From : John A. Leopard                     1:133/1063      .cê 11 .þí 95 03:22
 To   : All
 Subj : Atlanta Fantasy Fair
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
        Come and meet the stars at: The New Atlanta Comics and Fantasy Fair,
Inc., XXI, Castlegate Hotel, Atlanta, Georgia  - June 23-25th, 1995.

        Guests:  Kevin Sorbo ("Hercules"); Claudia Christian ("Ivanova" from
Babylon 5) and Dwight Schultz ("Barclay" on ST:NG/ "Murdock" on A-Team).

        AFF information (voice) number: (404) 507-7000 (no collect calls,
please) or call Starbase Atlanta BBS at (404) 270-1373..


--- CNet/3
 * Origin: Inside OUT BBS (404) 325-8476 - Atlanta, GA (1:133/1063)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 207 of 322
 From : Alisanne Fleitman                   1:107/955       .cê 11 .þí 95 09:02
 To   : ROBERT LIDGREN
 Subj : MORE SLIDERS DATA
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

RL> I sometimes think I enjoy watching these shows MOST when it is
RL> with my kids.

I like watching with Kassy too.  My favorite shows also include Babylon 5 and
Lois & Clark which havn't interested Kassy at all.  I think the reason that
Earth2 was such a favorite of hers was they had two kids on the show. She didn't
like the episodes that didn't feature the kids at all.

           ** Alisanne **

---
 * Origin: Self Help BBS * Elizabeth NJ * 908-289-3981 (1:107/955)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 208 of 322
 From : Jack Butler                         1:363/309       .cê 11 .þí 95 15:56
 To   : Phill Ash
 Subj : Crosspost
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 Quoth Phill Ash, "Nevermore".

 PA> On the note (pardon the pun) of Highlander, what ever happened to Phil
 PA> Akin (?) the guy from whom MacLeod bought the dojo?  I was wondering
 PA> whether "retro-continuity" might fit him in as a Watcher...

     At the moment, he's in Les Mis on broadway.

     Jack Butler



... Cthulhu:  Living the life of R'lyeh...
--- FMail 0.98a
 * Origin: Forethought BBS -=- Orlando FL -=- 407-277-7530 (1:363/309)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 209 of 322
 From : Jack Butler                         1:363/309       .cê 11 .þí 95 15:57
 To   : Phill Ash
 Subj : More Crosspost
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 Quoth Phill Ash, "Nevermore".

 >You know you've been watching too much Highlander when you listen
 >to  the song "Dust in the Wind" on the radio and you get all misty
 >about Tessa over a year later...

 PA> or listen to "Princes of the Universe" and wonder where the
 PA> extra lyrics came from...

     ROFL!

     Jack Butler



... "Let's pretend I hurt you and move on..." -- Dr. Forrester
--- FMail 0.98a
 * Origin: Forethought BBS -=- Orlando FL -=- 407-277-7530 (1:363/309)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 210 of 322
 From : Jack Butler                         1:363/309       .îí 12 .þí 95 06:17
 To   : Jeff Kovach
 Subj : Crosspost
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 Quoth Jeff Kovach, "Nevermore".

 JB> You know you've been watching Highlander too much when you hear
 JB> a song by The Who come on the radio, and you think it's too bad they
 JB> can't record any new stuff since their lead singer got killed.

 JK> Who?  Don't you mean Queen?

     No, I mean The Who.  Roger Daltrey played Hugh FitzCairn, an immortal
friend of MacLeod's who was killed by Kallas.

     Jack Butler



... "More powerful than a locomotive..."
--- FMail 0.98a
 * Origin: Forethought BBS -=- Orlando FL -=- 407-277-7530 (1:363/309)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 211 of 322
 From : Jim Cushing                         1:123/75        .îí 12 .þí 95 12:08
 To   : Brian Henderson
 Subj : Re: B5 Ripoff: Ds9
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 EE> If the WB Network had even one decent show, they might be doing
 EE> better. If the PTEN shows were pulled from syndication and moved to
 EE> the WB Network, they'd have a bunch of shows with pre-built
 EE> audiences that could then be seen in something resembling "prime
 EE> time" - it would probably be a win all around.

 BH> Considering that UPN is cancelling every show they have except Voyager
 BH> and DS9,

 Sorry Brian DS9 is syndicated and therefore UPN has no control over it.

 BH> I'd say that *BOTH* networks need some serious help.

 Amen to that although UPN is giving Legend a "second" chance on the 12th
 after Voyager.

 BH> Other than B5, I watch nothing on UPN,

 You stated earlier that UPN is cancelling every show except Voyager. Don't
 you mean you watch B-5 on the UPN affilate?



 and I watch absolutely nothing on

 BH> Warner.
 BH> ___
 BH> X RM 1.3  X Eval Day -8 X Hard DISK? Gee lady, I misunderstood you.

 BH> -!- Maximus 2.02
 BH>  ! Origin: The Belching Dragon Inn & Tavern (1:207/241)




... Miracle Software, Inc. 'If it works, it's a Miracle!'
--- Blue Wave/RA v2.12 [NR]
 * Origin:  Weyr Galifrey - Memphis, TN  +1.901.685.0017 (1:123/75)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 212 of 322
 From : Jim Cushing                         1:123/75        .îí 12 .þí 95 12:08
 To   : Brian Henderson
 Subj : Re: B5 Ripoff: Ds9
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ


 BH> I'll agree, although both LIS and BG had "adult" fans. Let's face it,
 BH> who are the majority of ST fans? Kids!

 Kids! Not likely Brian!

 BH> That's why Paramount flaunted T&A  all over the screen during TNG,
 BH> because they were aiming at their audience. That doesn't necessarily mean
 BH> that TNG or LIS or BG were necessarily aimed at a "kid" audience, those
 BH> were simply the audiences that they garnered. Even today, the vast majority
 BH> of Star Trek fans are  males under the age of 16.

 Get real! If what you say is true then I guess you believe that shows like
 Three's Company and Charlie's Angels were created for and viewed by the
 "kid" audience. I don't know about you but when I was 16(a loonngg time ago)
 the last thing I wanted to do was to watch TV.

 BH> It demonstrated that a sf show could be successful. Unfortunately,
 BH> there was too much drek between 1970 and 1987. The audience always
 BH> existed, there was simply nothing worth watching. Had a Babylon-5 or
 BH> something similar come along during that time, it would have made it
 BH> because it was a good show, not because TNG made it possible.

 Your missing the key word "Syndication"! When TNG proved that SF did not
 have to be shown on network to be successful it opened doors for shows
 like B-5, Highlander, Forever Knight. TNG had that built in audience that
 "helped" it succeed. B-5 would not have been syndicated if not for the
 success of TNG.

 BH> Unfortunately, after TNG hit the screen, far too many studios were
 BH> afraid to put their own space show up against a successful show.

 I would that in at least 90% of the country B-5 and DSN do NOT battle
 head to head in the ratings war.






... "There can be only One!" Connor McCloud.   'Highlander'
--- Blue Wave/RA v2.12 [NR]
 * Origin:  Weyr Galifrey - Memphis, TN  +1.901.685.0017 (1:123/75)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 213 of 322
 From : Jim Cushing                         1:123/75        .îí 12 .þí 95 12:08
 To   : Ecarey
 Subj : Re: BABYLON 5 (PTEN)
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 Ec> Compared to where Trek was at this point in its history, B5 is doing
 Ec> quite well, so quitcherbellyachin'.

 Well said Elizabeth!


... There IS intelligent life in the universe... It ignores us...
--- Blue Wave/RA v2.12 [NR]
 * Origin:  Weyr Galifrey - Memphis, TN  +1.901.685.0017 (1:123/75)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 214 of 322
 From : Jeff Schlenker                      1:288/19        .îí 12 .þí 95 23:16
 To   : Frank Glover
 Subj : Re: ST-Generations
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

-=> Frank Glover was overheard speaking to Crah <=-


 Cr>  Thanks! Strange that the rental places will have it before it's on
 Cr>  the shelf to
 Cr>  buy. Kinda supports pirating copies, doesn't it?

 FG> I agree. I thought it was kind of strange, too. Usually rental and
 FG> retail are simultaneous....

Here's my theory....  They sell it first to the rental stores for an
ungodly price... say 99 dollars.  Then they can later sell it at
large for a more reasonable price of 24.95 or less.



Jeffrey A. Schlenker               jeff.schlenker@lake-city.com

... "In God we trust.  All others we monitor..." - Naval Intelligence
___ TagDude 0.87 [Unregistered]
---
--- < Sig-It > v3.00 by Brandon S. Bell

--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12
 * Origin: LakeCity BBS * V34/4 Gigs Watertown SD 605 886-0849 (1:288/19)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 215 of 322
 From : Phill Ash                           1:275/160       .òp 13 .þí 95 08:11
 To   : Greg Mcneil
 Subj : Re: Out to sea...
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE 1.11+

>Hey, just don't get lost trying to Find:

>1. A BT Punch.
>2. Batteries for sound powered phones.
>3. Relative bearing grease. -yes, there is such a thing, but it has to
>   be speicaly ordered from supply.
>4. Food for the captain's gold fish.
>5. That Red, White, and Blue bouy, that has the ships mail in it.

You left out two of my favorites:
 6. Portable Pad-Eye Puller
 7. Gig-line


Your pal:  PhlAsh
... Always borrow money from a pessimist; he doesn't expect to be repaid.
---
 * PhlAshMail 1.0 *
~~~ ReneWave v1.00.wb2 (unregistered)
--- GEcho 1.11+
 * Origin: * The Beast's Lair * (804)425-1618 * Va Beach VA * (1:275/160)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 216 of 322
 From : Phill Ash                           1:275/160       .òp 13 .þí 95 08:11
 To   : Jeff Kovach
 Subj : Crosspost
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE 1.11+

>     You know you've been watching Highlander too much when you hear
>a song by The Who come on the radio, and you think it's too bad they
>can't record any new stuff since their lead singer got killed.

>To which Jeff Kovach replies...
>Who?  Don't you mean Queen?

        Silly!
        Roger Daltry (lead singer for The Who) was decapitated by
        Kallas. <G>


Your pal:  PhlAsh
... An insane student learns strange lessons.
---
 * PhlAshMail 1.0 *
~~~ ReneWave v1.00.wb2 (unregistered)
--- GEcho 1.11+
 * Origin: * The Beast's Lair * (804)425-1618 * Va Beach VA * (1:275/160)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 217 of 322
 From : Phill Ash                           1:275/160       .òp 13 .þí 95 08:12
 To   : Jack Butler
 Subj : Crosspost
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE 1.11+

>Regarding listening to The Who and thinking their lead singer got
>killed.  I didn't know about this.  Please enlighten me as to the
>situation?  Is it to do with Queen?
>Gloria

        I think you went way over some people's heads on that one, Jack!


Your pal:  PhlAsh
... Cardinal Fang! Fetch...THE COMFY CHAIR!
---
 * PhlAshMail 1.0 *
~~~ ReneWave v1.00.wb2 (unregistered)
--- GEcho 1.11+
 * Origin: * The Beast's Lair * (804)425-1618 * Va Beach VA * (1:275/160)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 218 of 322
 From : John Kahane                         1:163/198.5     .òp 13 .þí 95 12:06
 To   : Jeff Hancock
 Subj : Vorlon Immortality
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
In a message of <Saturday June 10 1995 01:47>, Jeff Hancock scribed:

 JK>> *************Minor Spoiler Warning******************
 JK> JK>>> SPOILER ALERT!!!
 JK> JH>> Still?
 JK>> Yep...  You never know who's not seen the episode in
 JK>> question yet, so it makes sense to do so...

 JH> We're not going to have a repeat of the debate from over on
 JH> SF, are we?

     No, Jeff... I hadn't intended to. :)  I guess we can dispense with the
spoiler warning here, but if someone objects to their *not* being a spoiler
warning, I'll send them to you, ok? <g>

 JK> JH>> BTW, I thought the next episode was supposed to be _The
 JK> JH>> Long, Twilight Struggle_, which was being hyped as one
 JK>> The next *new* episode is going to be _The Long, Twilight
 JK>> Struggle_, but it won't be airing in North America now until
 JK>> some time in October. PTEN has decided to hold off on the
 JK>> final four

 JH> So I've been hearing... Expletive deleted.

     Well, things could be worse, you know...the series has been renewed, so
there will be a third season of BABYLON 5.  The good news is the episodes may be
shown a bit earlier, but there is also the possibility now that the Brits and
Euros won't see the last four episodes until August or September.  Just talk,
for the moment, as far as I know.

 JH> Not that it's an original thought, but this is stupid.

     Quite a few of us agree with this sentiment.  Won't do much to influence
the folks at PTEN, I don't think. :(

 JH> Not only do they tick off B5 fans, but that also means that
 JH> those four episodes will only get one airing (not counting
 JH> the same-week repeats in many areas), and people who miss
 JH> them or get turned on to the show later will miss what appear
 JH> to be some of the more important (arc-wise) shows of the
 JH> season - just like _Babylon Squared_ and _Chrysalis_.

     Yep, pretty much the same thing, imo.  The worst thing is that PTEN has
said that the reason they won't show episodes from the first season is that they
don't want to confuse people about the Sinclair/Sheridan command of the station.
Since JMS has said that major new characters will be introduced in the third
season, it's a good bet that second season shows won't be repeated for the same
reason that PTEN used to not want to show first season episodes in repeat.
Maybe we'll have to wait until the series is in syndicated re-release. :)

 JK>> Meantime, the Brits and Europeans will see the four episodes
 JK>> when they were scheduled to air - in the June/July slot. :(

 JH> Okay, two questions... Is it possible a letter-writing
 JH> campaign would do any good, and do you know anyone in Europe
 JH> with an NTSC-compatible VCR who could send you tapes of
 JH> them . . . ?

     Well, before I answer this, see my comments above on this matter.  As for
the first question, I doubt that a letter-writing campaign would influence PTEN
one way or the other, but it might convince them to show the episodes a bit
earlier than October.  Or not...  They're thinking in terms of the sweeps in
October and November, and as I mentioned before, the segue into the third season
of B5.

     As for the second question, I know a lot of people in Britain, but most of
them aren't using the NTSC-compatible formats.  PAL is the common video over
there, and that's what they'll be recording in.  Unless they're willing to help
out the poor American cousins and go out of their way to help us all out. :)

 JK>> No way to know...but we don't know all that much about them.
 JK>> We know that they are at least 12,000 years old and that
 JK>> they were old when the other First Ones, such as the Vorlons,
 JK>> were young.

 JH> Race-wise, but I'm talking about those Shadows with Morden,
 JH> and if they personally would have fought in the wars or have
 JH> any experience leading them to believe that Kosh is one of
 JH> the First Ones.

     Who knows?  We don't really know what the Shadows look like proper yet;
heck we don't even know anything about Shadow biology or chemistry at all, so
how can we talk about their ages?  The fact that they pre-date the Vorlons as a
race must count for something of course, but we don't know enough about them at
this point.

 JH>  They must have a suspicion at the least, unless those
 JH> particular Shadows don't know diddley about those ancient wars.
 JH> Wouldn't the very name "Vorlons" tip them off? ;-)

     Not if the actual name of Kosh's race is one that they have abandoned in
order to keep themselves safe from the Shadows for now.  "Vorlon" might be the
name they call themselves as camouflage, and serves a similar purpose to the
encounter suit that presumably, all Vorlons wear.

 JK> JH>> and why no one walks into them by accident.
 JK>> Probably because they're phased. :)

 JH> Is this just guessing, or has JMS confirmed this? Could be,
 JH> it would certainly explain how Morden gets around in crowded
 JH> situations (unless they can fly, too).

     No, Joe hasn't confirmed this.  But I've been of the opinion that the
Shadows have phasing capability for a long time now, ever since we first saw the
Shadow ship in combat as a matter of fact.  Some of the evidence seems to
confirm this, some doesn't.  Just another mystery, one of many, surrounding the
Shadows. :)

 JH> Something else I was thinking of... Sinclair's Rangers and
 JH> Delenn both know about the Shadows, and know that the others
 JH> know; and Delenn knows about Morden and the Shadows, so it
 JH> would seem reasonable to assume that there is a Ranger or
 JH> two keeping an eye on Morden.

     While that's possible, knowledge is a dangerous thing. :)  JMS has said
that there have been Rangers on the station for a while now, and that every
episode since "TCoS" has had at least one Ranger somewhere in it.

 JH>  To that end, the last time I watched _ItSoZ_, during the
 JH> meeting in the Zocalo I was watching the background for
 JH> anyone who appeared to show even the slightest interest in
 JH> Morden... but, no luck. Either JMS hasn't considered this,
 JH> or just didn't put it in...

     Well, I'm in the middle of making tapes for a friend of mine; he wants a
complete set of B5 tapes, so I'm working on the first season stuff, but when I
get around to watching some of the later episodes again, I may keep my eyes
peeled for things.

     John
.....
If wishes were horses, beggars would be shoveling manure.

--- GoldED/2 2.42.G0614
 * Origin: JohnK's OS/2Warp Point - Ottawa, Ontario (1:163/198.5)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 219 of 322
 From : John Kahane                         1:163/198.5     .òp 13 .þí 95 12:22
 To   : Jeff Hancock
 Subj : Vorlon Immortality 1.1
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
In a message of <Saturday June 10 1995 01:47>, Jeff Hancock scribed:

 JK> JK>>> that the Ancient Ones have learned, about how to cloak
 JK> JK>>> themselves from the Shadows knowing who they are,
 JK> JH>> Hmmm, good point. I wonder if the encounter suit is also
 JK> JH>> part of that protection, perhaps generating a scrambler
 JK> JH>> field
 JK>> This would certainly seem to be the case, given that the
 JK>> Shadows in "Signs and Portents" attempted to get through
 JK>> the suit to see what

 JH> Well, the cloaking could be entirely mental instead of just
 JH> physical through the suit, is what I meant.

     I'm not sure about this.  If you remember from "The Gathering," Lyta
Alexander couldn't scan Kosh with the suit relatively closed, and she speculated
that it was shielded.  That possibly implies the Vorlon suit is partially
organic, that the Vorlons have some sort of psi shielding (which makes sense,
given their racial age), or something like that.  While the suit might not be
totally effective against the Shadows, given they are older than the Vorlons,
that doesn't mean the latter are more technologically advanced than the Vorlons,
but this does appear to be the case.

 JK>> was inside.  That's how Kosh's encounter suit got damaged,
 JK>> although it's obvious now that the Shadow allies of Morden
 JK>> didn't manage to penetrate Kosh's disguise.  If they had,
 JK>> the war with the Shadows would have started in deadly
 JK>> earnest by now.

 JH> The thing is, it just makes me wonder why the Shadows were
 JH> ruthlessly curious enough to reveal themselves in some fashion
 JH> if they weren't suspicious enough already to make it almost a
 JH> moot point.

     It could be they were curious about the Vorlons, specifically about Kosh,
I suppose.  In "Signs and Portents" it seemed to me that Kosh was the only
ambassador that Morden hadn't approached, and no matter what others say on the
matter, he was somewhat afraid of Kosh to begin with.  Perhaps something
instinctive, who knows?

 JH>  Given what the Shadows with Morden _ought_ to know about
 JH> the ancient wars (one would think he would have contacts who
 JH> would know enough to watch for things the agent wouldn't
 JH> notice, unless Morden was given that kind of information as
 JH> part of the recruitment), it just seems as if they should have
 JH> a very good unconfirmed suspicion of who Kosh really is.

     Perhaps, but maybe not.  We don't really know enough about either species
at this point to guess, although one would think that when the Vorlons are
revealed as one of the First Ones, things will intensify.  Perhaps it's the
revelation of what the Vorlons are near the end of this season that will cause
the Shadows to commence the war in earnest.

 JK> JH>> Say, how does this tie in with _The Gathering_?
 JK>> No one knows, Jeff...at least no one other than JMS...and
 JK>> he ain't talking. <g>

 JH> So speculate... thoughts are still free, so far. ;-)

     Well, the first thing that comes to mind is the attempted assassination of
Kosh in "The Gathering."  We don't know whether the assassination attempt was
real or not, but I'm inclined to believe it was.  Someone, presumably whoever
set up the assassination attempt, had to have know exactly *what* was inside the
encounter suit, since they knew how to poison Kosh and knew what to use to
poison Kosh.  Make of that what you will, I think.

 JK> JH>> I can't remember exactly what happened, but wasn't a
 JK> JH>> telepath involved? And didn't the doctor who saw Kosh go
 JK> JH>> to the Rim, where he could run into Shadows?
 JK>> There were actually three people involved.  The doctor,
 JK>> Benjamin

 JH> Thanks for the refresh. How did Lyta scan Kosh through the
 JH> suit, unless she's more powerful than Talia?

     She didn't.  Kosh opened the suit, allowing Lyta to make physical contact
with him (and I still maintain that she saw what was in the encounter suit as
well), and that's how she was able to scan him.

 JK>> Laurel Takashima, the second-in-command, was involved in
 JK>> the assassination attempt up to her neck, and she was the
 JK>> staff member who was transferred out to the Rim (this was
 JK>> something that JMS said in posts and the like); a lot of us
 JK>> believe that she'll be back as a Shadow agent before the
 JK>> story is finished.

 JH> Sounds almost too coincidental, except that it's not too
 JH> unreasonable to "sentence" someone to a distant post where
 JH> you won't have to deal with them again (hopefully)... still,
 JH> there could be a contact in Earthdome who knew she'd make a
 JH> good Shadow operative... or she already was and was just
 JH> going to the Rim to report and receive a new assignment.

     That's one possibility.  Someone in C&C let the Narn one-man pod that
brought the Minbari assassin onto the station through.  Someone arranged it that
Del Varner, a man with five convictions for tech-running in the EA, managed to
arrive on the station and not get busted by security.  Someone blanked out the
computer records on the problem with the transport tube that Sinclair had while
on the way to the docking bay to meet Kosh on his arrival. There's a few more
points here that could be made against Takashima as well.

     John
......
If wishes were horses, beggars would be shoveling manure.

--- GoldED/2 2.42.G0614
 * Origin: The Point Away From Home (1:163/198.5)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 220 of 322
 From : John Kahane                         1:163/198.5     .òp 13 .þí 95 12:35
 To   : Jeff Hancock
 Subj : Vorlon Immortality 2
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
In a message of <Saturday June 10 1995 02:16>, Jeff Hancock scribed:

 JK> JH>> Surprised? I don't remember Morden seeming that
 JK> JH>> surprised, he was as confident as ever.
 JK>> Watch the episode again, Jeff, if you can. :)  Morden was

 JH> That one I can't, although I did see it a few times.

     Hmmm... oh well...

 JK>> surprised to see the Vorlon the first time and hid from him
 JK>> in one of the off-shoot tunnels from the docking bays when
 JK>> Kosh returned to the

 JH> I remember that scene, more or less, just not that he looked
 JH> all that surprised.

     I guess it's really a matter of interpretation about the whole sequence,
isn't it?  I thought he was somewhat surprised, and Joe has said that the
Shadows who are always with Morden tried to open the suit to find out what was
inside.  That's how the suit got damaged.

 JK>> He avoided Kosh for most of the episode, and the final
 JK>> confrontation

 JH> Was there anything else in the show aside from that and the
 JH> final encounter to suggest that Kosh was trying to find
 JH> Morden, or that Morden was trying to avoid Kosh? I thought we
 JH> only saw them those two times.

     That's right...but the evidence in the two sequences is clear.  The first
time, Morden is avoiding Kosh as he comes down the hallway by going into the
side tunnel very quickly and quietly.  The second time, Morden confronts Kosh by
Kosh's design, not Morden's.

 JK>> with Kosh was the latter's doing, not Morden's idea. JMS
 JK>> has said that it was the Shadows that are always with Morden
 JK>> that attacked Kosh, not Morden personally, and that they
 JK>> were the ones who damaged the encounter suit.

 JH> I wonder when this will be "officially" revealed in the show.

     I suspect that this may be revealed when we learn, in flashback, about the
encounter between Kosh and Morden in "SaP."

 JH> You may not have thought that highly of _ItSoZ_ because most
 JH> of it were things you had already figured out or had heard
 JH> comments about from JMS, but there are undoubtedly fans
 JH> without those contacts who hadn't put the pieces together in
 JH> that way.

     Oh, I suspect that's true.  But the hints about Morden's origins have been
around since he first showed up in "SaP"; it's just a matter of fans paying
attention (something that has to be done in this series, because of all the
continuity and on-going plots) to what occurred in the past.  Comments made by
characters also help in this regard...

 JK> JH>> Which point exactly, that the Shadows were always with
 JK> JH>> Morden, that the Shadows attacked Kosh, or that the
 JK> JH>> knowledge was plundered before the attack? I'm not sure
 JK> JH>> which part of your statement was confirmed.

 JK>> Joe confirmed that the Shadows are always with Morden
 JK>> (which was confirmed by Delenn in "In the Shadow of
 JK>> Z'ha'dum"), and that it was the Shadows that attacked Kosh
 JK>> and damaged the encounter suit in "Signs and Portents."

 JH> Okay... you did say "latter", but it still seemed a bit
 JH> ambiguous.

     Yeah, I can see that it might have sounded somewhat ambiguous in
retrospect.  At least, we've got this one cleared up now.  Sort of like the
business with Delenn's bit about Kosh being Vorlon and the Vorlons being one of
the First Ones in "ItSoZ."  It seems a lot of the folks who saw the story got
confused about whether Kosh was the last of the Vorlons and all that.

 JK>> Morden's knowledge being taken by Kosh is the only
 JK>> explanation of how Kosh could have known what happened
 JK>> to the Icarus, and it's something that explains the
 JK>> sequence that we saw in "ItSoZ"; the perspective we seem
 JK>> to have is that of Morden, if you watch it more critically.

 JH> True, and yet... The first scene of the Icarus flyby could
 JH> not have been Morden, unless they'd spaced him ;-), the next
 JH> scene was a pan sideways of the Icarus crew unloading and
 JH> setting things up; it seems unlikely that Morden would have
 JH> been walking sideways and watching the ship instead of
 JH> exploring the planet, and then finally the exploration scenes
 JH> with the lights and the uncovering of the Shadow could very
 JH> well have been his POV.

     The earlier scenes you mention could have been through a Shadow pov,
either from an orbiting facility or from a Shadow sentry of some sort.  Just my
guess, at this point.

 JK> JK> JH>>> But not everything was from Morden's POV...
 JK> JK>>> The vision of the events of the Icarus landing on
 JK> JK>>> Z'ha'dum were not all from Morden's view, but it's also
 JK> JK>>> likely that a Shadow viewpoint was also part of that -
 JK> JK>>> something perhaps that is part

 JK> JH>> Hmmm.... But if the Icarus woke up the Shadows on the
 JK> JH>> surface of Za'ha'dum, then how could a Shadow ship have
 JK> JH>> been in space to watch the Icarus before it landed?

 JK>> Perhaps it wasn't a Shadow ship.  Perhaps it was an automated
 JK>> system that the Shadows, once awake, could have awareness of.
 JK>> Perhaps it was a Vorlon or other First Ones orbital scanning/
 JK>> surveillance device. Who knows?

 JH> Possibly, possibly. I would favor the automated Shadow system
 JH> for the flyby; if the Vorlons were involved you would think
 JH> they would have done something to prevent the humans from
 JH> awaking the Shadows.

     While this is a valid point, one of the things you have to remember is
that the Vorlons don't tend to interfere in all things.  We've seen this over
and over in the series, and perhaps it has more to do with the cyclical nature
of the universe and history.  I get the impression that it was just a matter of
time before *someone* woke the Shadows again...it's ironic that it's the humans
who did it, and it's even more ironic perhaps that the Vorlons are still around
to help the lesser, newcomer races deal with them again.

 JH>  The pan of the ship unloading could have been from an awake
 JH> Shadow, perhaps after Morden (or whomever) had found it and
 JH> thus shown out of chronological sequence.

     Good thinking.  One possibility that I'd not considered.

     John
.....
I love the whirling of the dervishes.

--- GoldED/2 2.42.G0614
 * Origin: The Point Away From Home (1:163/198.5)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 221 of 322
 From : John Kahane                         1:163/198.5     .òp 13 .þí 95 12:49
 To   : Jeff Hancock
 Subj : Vorlon Immortality 2.1
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
In a message of <Saturday June 10 1995 02:16>, Jeff Hancock scribed:

 JH> There's no need for Morden to have provided those images,
 JH> since we're assuming the Shadows implanted the memories of
 JH> the flyby and the ship unloading in his head then they could
 JH> have added memories of the first person to see and wake the
 JH> Shadow.

     A valid point.  I suspect that the Shadows do provide some of their more
trusted agents - of which Morden certainly appears to be one - with a lot of
information and a lot of memories.  This could be part of his arrangement.

 JH> On the other claw, this could be partially memories that Kosh
 JH> took from the _Shadows_, not Morden;

     Another good point, and certainly an intriguing possibility.  That would
mean that Kosh is a lot stronger than we've been led to believe, but it could
have been due to the element of surprise that the Shadows with Morden
experienced.  Kosh pounced, at the right moment, of course. :)

 JK> JK>>> Shadows and their agents are telepathically linked (I
 JK> JK>>> refuse
 JK> JH>> Telepathically, perhaps... but whatever it is, I don't
 JK> JH>> think they're always in contact. While Morden is in
 JK> JH>> custody, you can see him doing something which would
 JK> JH>> seem to suggest he's making contact with the Shadows.

 JK>> True.  And yet, go back to "Chrysalis"... that's the episode
 JK>> where he's sitting comfortably and the Shadows are on
 JK>> either side of him talking to him.  He's not communing or
 JK>> meditating in that sequence to contact them.  It strikes me
 JK>> that his actions in "ItSoZ" while in custody was a blatant
 JK>> attempt to get Sheridan to see the Shadows.

 JH> How do you figure that?

     Call it a gut instinct.  There's the sequence right near the end, when (I
think it was) Sheridan is regarding the screen, and Morden looks straight at
him...and smiles that malicious smile of his.  He *knew* exactly what was going
on, I think...

 JH> He couldn't have known Sheridan was watching, or would know
 JH> what to look for...

     See my thoughts above. :)

 JH> My guess is that when he did what he did, it was basically
 JH> a signal saying "okay, we can talk now" and during Chrysalis,
 JH> they were already talking.

     I don't agree with you here at all.  Just my impressions of the sequence...
And I'm inclined to think there's more to Morden than we even know at this
point.

 JK> JH>> Curiously enough, it looks as if he's making a triangle
 JK> JH>> with his fingers... What if he has one of those Minbari
 JK> JH>> widgets, or perhaps the Minbari got them from the Vorlons
 JK> JH>> or Shadows in some

 JK>> We don't really know what the triangular symbol with his
 JK>> hands was, but perhaps it's something from Shadow and other
 JK>> First Ones religions that has been adopted by the Minbari
 JK>> (and perhaps other races).  I doubt very much that he has a
 JK>> triluminary...

 JH> Perhaps. Why would you doubt that? I mean, is it like
 JH> something that can only be used by Minbari, or only for the
 JH> Forces of Good <tm>, or some other such restriction?

     Well, it has struck me that it's uses to this point have been associated
with Light, and that's something that the Shadows and Morden seem to have
avoided.  I suspect that the triluminary may have been something handed down to
the Minbari by the "Vorlons" during the last skirmish with the Shadows some
1,000 years ago.  Just a guess on my part, of course.

 JK> JK>>> Actually the time of Valen and the Grey Council is about
 JK> JK>>> 1,000 years ago, which fits in with the business of the
 JK> JH>> Sorry, I was unclear. Obviously Minbari aren't told just
 JK> JH>> because they joined the Grey Council, since then she
 JK> JH>> would have known for longer than three years.
 JK>> While this is possible, it also represents the fact that
 JK>> Delenn had only been on the Grey Council for the last three
 JK>> to five years or so, a recent recruit (in Minbari terms),
 JK>> perhaps.

 JH> Ummm... Delenn was with the Grey Council during the Earth-
 JH> Minbari war over ten years ago, proposed courses of action,
 JH> and interviewed prisoners. Does that sound like the actions
 JH> of a "recent recruit", Minbari or no?

     Oops... <red-faced shameful look>  Something I'd forgotten about in all
the other detail we've been discussing.  Hmm...

     John
.....
I love the whirling of the dervishes.

--- GoldED/2 2.42.G0614
 * Origin: The Point Away From Home (1:163/198.5)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 222 of 322
 From : John Kahane                         1:163/198.5     .òp 13 .þí 95 12:59
 To   : Jeff Hancock
 Subj : Vorlon Immortality 2.2
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
In a message of <Saturday June 10 1995 02:16>, Jeff Hancock scribed:

 JK>> that Valen balanced the Council with three from each caste
 JK>> suggests that he felt that there was merit to having the
 JK>> religious, warrior, and worker caste viewpoints in all
 JK>> matters - something that the current Council seems to have
 JK>> forgotten perhaps.

 JH> I find it slightly odd that the Minbari are acting quite as
 JH> hostile as they are. Aside from the Dark Star, they didn't
 JH> suffer any real casualties, did they?

     Not as far as we know.  The casualties fo the E-M war have only been
really mentioned from the pov of the Humans, although we know that they lost a
rather large force when Sheridan did his thing with the Black Star.

 JH> Aside from the insult of being told to surrender when they
 JH> had beaten us, which is obviously still a fairly big deal, it
 JH> seems a bit odd that they're so sensitive about war casualties.
 JH> Kind of as if the E-M war was their Vietnam, except it wasn't.

     Perhaps, but the Minbari went to war for religious reasons, given what had
occurred to the previous Minbari leader during the initial contact between the
two races.  Sure, the Minbari Religious caste stopped the war, but didn't tell
the Warrior and Worker castes *why*.  Those two castes must have felt humiliated
by the surrender to Earth when they were on the brink of victory. That would
certainly keep some of the hostility, if not hatred, alive.

 JK>> impression that Neroon's mind was totally closed, once he
 JK>> learned about humans having Minbari souls, and hence the
 JK>> reason for the surrender to Earth.  While he might still
 JK>> know of the coming great evil and all, his own biases and
 JK>> dislike of the Humans, evidenced in the stories that he's
 JK>> appeared in, would prevent him from desiring or even wanting
 JK>> the Humans' aid.

 JH> Assuming again that the soul theory is correct, or has JMS
 JH> confirmed it?

     No, just a guess on my part.  Joe hasn't really said all that much about
this, but if the soul theory were a deliberate falsehood on the part of the
Minbari, I don't think Joe would admit it at this time.  Still, what does the
Minbari soul theory do when it comes to Delenn?  Does she still have a Minbari
soul or not?

 JK> JK>>> John Vornholt posted a message noting that the next book
 JK> JK>>> in the series, his _Blood Oath_ (dealing with the Narns)
 JK> JK>>> won't be out
 JK> JH>> Considering what I keep hearing about them, doesn't sound
 JK> JH>> like it'll be a loss.
 JK>> I suppose not.  Still, it would be nice to have some new B5
 JK>> fiction to read during the six-month drought between new
 JK>> episodes, now wouldn't it?  I guess the comics will have to
 JK>> serve during this time... *sigh*

 JH> Well, they'll serve for me... finally got back on Voices.
 JH> Thinking about it, I don't think it's so bad that most of it
 JH> will be on Earth; after all one of the reasons for the comic
 JH> was said so that they could show parts of the B5 universe that
 JH> they couldn't afford to do on the show, and Earth should be
 JH> much the same. The show can't cover *everything*, after all.

     This is certainly what one would think, right? :)  The comics have been a
lot more entertaining and informative, as far as I am concerned, than the
novels.  But this is something that I think is much harder to do with the
novels.  John Vornholt and JMS both said that the third novel has been delayed
because of the corrections and modifications that had to be made to it, likely
based on the Narn lore and canon.  _Voices_ was an entertaining read, imo, but
I'll never think of the book as canon.

 JH> I don't suppose you can get a copy of the full JMS/Claudia
 JH> interview that was in the letter column to #7, could you?
 JH> Great stuff there. Oh, and if you could get that GIF... <g>

     I haven't got my copy of the seventh issue of the comic, yet, but I know
the interview you're referring to.  If Nicolai is willing, I'll post the whole
thing here on the echo...but it'll be some nine or so posts in length, iirc.

     John
.....
I love the whirling of the dervishes.

--- GoldED/2 2.42.G0614
 * Origin: The Point Away From Home (1:163/198.5)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 223 of 322
 From : Marc Zingarelli                     1:226/110       .òp 13 .þí 95 14:30
 To   : Jack Butler
 Subj : Highlander Novels
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12  92-0004
JACK BUTLER was overheard talking in "Joe's" about Highlander Novels and
said:


JB>     Okay, here's the scoop.  The first Highlander novel, "The Element of
JB>Fire" by Jay Henders, will be out around October.  The second novel,
JB>"Scimitar" by Ashley McConnell, will be released after that.

Another thing to wait through a boring summer for!  Thanks for the info


Later

Marc

---
 * OLXWin 1.00a * "I'm a lawyer." "Honest?" "No, the usual kind."

--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12
 * Origin: The Computer Room-Pickerington, Oh (614)861-8377  (1:226/110.0)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 224 of 322
 From : John Kahane                         1:163/198.5     .òp 13 .þí 95 18:55
 To   : Jeff Hancock
 Subj : Vorlon Immortality 3
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
In a message of <Saturday June 10 1995 02:48>, Jeff Hancock scribed:

 JK>> There's been all kinds of speculations, Jeff...things
 JK>> about angels, and the like - but Joe has said that only
 JK>> one person has actually guessed the truth about the Vorlons.
 JK>> And he wouldn't say who...

 JH> Hmmmm...did he say anything else, such as that the person
 JH> had said it on the usenet conference?

No, not really.  But given that the stuff he says on GEnie, CIS, and other
places usually filters down to the usenet level, it could have been anyone. That
said, I believe that it may have been someone on Usenet.  But folks have been
posting about B5 since "The Gathering" came out, and it could have been someone
way back in late 1993 or early 1994.

 JH> You could work it in reverse and review all the ideas
 JH> posted and eliminate all the ones that multiple people have
 JH> suggested or agree with. ;-)

     No way, Jeff...I'd have to go through all the mail that has been posted in
the rasftvb5 and other newsgroups for at least two years.  Not for love, but for
money, maybe... :)

 JH> Anyway, judging by the #7 lettercol, we will know in October.

     Joe's been saying this for a while now, Jeff.  Actually, he said this when
he discussed the final eight episodes (before we knew about the October delay
and all).  You really should get back on the B5 Echo regularly, if nothing else.
:)

 JK> JK>>> we don't know all that much about some of the races,
 JK> JK>>> although there have been hints in the medical episodes
 JK> JK>>> about physiologies
 JK> JH>> About how they would recognize Kosh as an ancient one?
 JK> JH>> I'm not following. You mean it's something physical?

 JK>> I suspect so.  Remember Kyle's reaction to Kosh in "The
 JK>> Gathering"? There's also the bit that was posted here from
 JK>> the scene

 JH> Not really. <g> But I don't get what you're saying here... I
 JH> don't mean how Kosh looks, you suggested that alien
 JH> physiologies had something to do with how they would recognize
 JH> Kosh as a First One, or something like that... I'm still not
 JH> sure what, and I think a vital quote got cut out somewhere
 JH> along the way (must not have seemed vital at the time).

     Nope, no quotes got cut.  My whole point here is that, contrary to popular
opinion, I don't think Kosh is going to be an angel or any sort of religious
figure.  Something that Dr. Kyle saw (and possibly Lyta Alexander saw) when he
looked into the Vorlon's encounter suit - about the Vorlon's physiological
appearance - is important to the discovery/revelation of what Kosh looks like.
But I'm in the dark as much as anyone else as to taking a guess as to what Kosh
looks like and what the important physiological trait might be.

 JK>> that was cut from the 2-hour movie, where Kyle talks to
 JK>> Laurel Takashima, and tells her that he's "been changed"
 JK>> by what he saw. Something to think about.

 JH> Not as badly as Delenn. ;)

     True, but Delenn's transformation comes from religious belief, I think,
and a firm committment to Valen's prophecy.  Whatever she saw in Kosh influenced
the decision, but it's also possible that Kosh may well have manipulated Delenn.
He's certainly done a lot of manipulating in the series so far. :)

 JH> I just don't see how they're going to show Kosh and have us,
 JH> the viewing audience, immediately undergo some form of
 JH> revelation and understand what all the puzzle pieces
 JH> concerning Kosh throughout the series to date add up to,
 JH> without falling back on some form of cliche or being totally
 JH> confusing and not providing those answers.

     I just hope that most of the folks won't be disappointed in what Kosh is,
given the hype that's leading up to this revelation.  Personally, I hope it's
something that is very science fiction-y.

 JK> JK>>> "Confessions and Lamentations" had one of these as well,
 JK> JK>>> in a Lousy joke, though...
 JK> JK>>> Do you suppose this is the homeworld that JMS said
 JK> JK>>> would be destroyed? I thought it would be that of a
 JK> JK>>> major race.
 JK>> Yes, the Markab homeworld is the one that was meant by
 JK>> Joe.

 JH> I sense a discussion between you and Chris very shortly. ;-)

     Actually, there doesn't have to be a discussion between me and Chris about
this at all.  Since I posted the original message to you on this one, I've had
time to think about what Joe has said in the past and about the whole Markab
plague business.  The Markab are *not* the major race that Joe meant.  The Narn
are.

 JK>> nice touch, a rather brutal kind of lesson, and something that
 JK>> most of the fans weren't expecting.  As for the Markab being a
 JK>> "major

 JH> A little foreshadowing might have been nice... as it is, it
 JH> almost seems more of an AIDS parable than anything else.

     Personally, I thought it was something of an AIDS parable, but I think in
actual fact it relates more to the Black Death kind of thing.  That killed
three-quarters of the population of Europe when it struck, and the death of the
Markab species struck a chord in the same fashion for me.

 JK>> race" or not, who knows what they might have accomplished
 JK>> during the series? Their legends spoke of the Shadows and
 JK>> their servants, so perhaps the plague wasn't an "accident
 JK>> of nature" at all. :)

 JH> Hey now, let's not get TOO paranoid about 'em! Now, back to
 JH> my theory about how the Shadows are behind Bureau 13...

     *chuckle*  hehe  Yeah, there's that element of paranoia that strikes, but
with B5 you can't help it. :)  It was just a thought that crossed my mind,
simply because there's now a de-populated world that has all sorts of potential.

 JK> JH>> While I'm thinking of it, someone mentioned the
 JK> JH>> number 2.5 showing up in B5 a number of times, do you
 JK> JH>> suppose it's also a coincidence that both station
 JK> JH>> captions happen to share the creator's first and last
 JK> JH>> initials? ;)
 JK>> I'm not sure I understand what you mean here...

 JH> Jeff Sinclair.
 JH> John Sheridan.
 JH> J.M. S.
 JH> ^    ^ Notice a trend? It's as if the captain character is
 JH> his alter-ego.

     The reason I didn't understand what you meant here was because you wrote
"caption" in place of "captain" in the above... :)  That said, Joe has said
numerous times that there's no coincidental about it and that it wasn't
deliberate on his part.

 JH> Speaking of which, do you know if JMS has ever appeared in
 JH> the series as a background actor?

     Nope, Joe has never appeared in the series because he feels that he's not
photogenic enough and because he doesn't do that sort of things on series that
he writes and produces.  Ron Thornton and a couple of the other folks have
appeared in the series before, however.

     John
.....
We'd give you a part my love, but you'd have to play the fool.

--- GoldED/2 2.42.G0614
 * Origin: JohnK's OS/2Warp Point - Ottawa, Ontario (1:163/198.5)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 225 of 322
 From : John Kahane                         1:163/198.5     .òp 13 .þí 95 19:20
 To   : Jeff Hancock
 Subj : Vorlon Immortality 3.1
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
In a message of <Saturday June 10 1995 02:48>, Jeff Hancock scribed:

 JK> JK> JK>>>> with Kosh's earlier talk with Sheridan about
 JK> JK> JK>>>> teaching and preparing him "to fight legends."
 JK> JK> JH>>> Yes, but what legends exactly?
 JK> JK>>> The legends are the Shadows, obviously.  Since they are
 JK> JH>> Yes, but... They'd be our legends too, and what legends
 JK> JH>> are there on Earth of anything like the Shadows?

 JK>> One never knows, does one?  I could have said "Only the
 JK>> Shadow(s) know"... but that would have been rather tacky
 JK>> of me. <g>

 JH> Yes, it would have been.

     :)  And I wouldn't do something like that. :)

 JH> Guess I'll just have to assume that they're legends of B5's
 JH> Earth, and not ours, without getting too generic. At least
 JH> Za'ha'dum wasn't brimstone and fire pits.

     Now *that* would have been tacky. :)  Mind you, I was half expecting
something like the mines of Moria or some such, and it was sort of like that.
Very evil feel, very evil looking place, and very sad.  As for the legends part,
I've got to agree on this one...that's pretty much my take on it.

 JK>> Yes, similar enough to the legends of other races, that
 JK>> there is a very large grain of truth here.  No different
 JK>> than some of the legends that we see on Earth.  All cultures
 JK>> have vampire legends of some sort, faeries are common to
 JK>> quite a few cultures (even if the nature and shape of
 JK>> faeries differs), dragons in Eastern tales, and the like.

 JH> True, true... but I'd like to see how the Shadows fit in
 JH> with *our* legends, if there is any equivalancy.

     And once we learn more about the Shadows, you may get your wish about
this.  There's just so much going on in the B5 storyline that we don't know, and
the Shadows are a large part of this right now.

 JH> Even allowing for differences, such as the difference between
 JH> dragons of one story or another, what do the Shadows resemble
 JH> other than just "demons" or "devilspawn"?

     That's not enough? :)  But as for dragons, I'm not talking about stories
here, I'm talking about cultures.  Sure, dragons (as the example) have
similarities between all cultures in the folklore, but there are differences -
sometimes vast ones.  There's a biiiiiiiig difference between cultural tales and
mere stories.

 JK> JK>>> I don't think so.  The Shadows that we saw in "ItSoZ"
 JK> JK>>> didn't appear to be spider-like to me at all.
 JK> JH>> Then what do you think they look like? I dunno, I see
 JK> JH>> the eyes, the legs, the shape, and think spider.
 JK>> I'm not going to comment on what they look like at this
 JK>> point.

 JH> What do you mean, you won't comment?

     Exactly that. :)

 JH> If you were going to describe the Shadows to someone, what
 JH> would you say? Without going into some convoluted "cross
 JH> between a" description, "spider" is the closest (although
 JH> still a good bit off) animal I can think to compare them to.

     I would have to say, assuming I was going to say anything, that they
reminded me of a cross <wince> between a spider and a preying mantis.  But my
original thoughts on the Shadows when they first appeared with their ships was
more octopoidal.  Whereas Kosh's ship struck me more as squid-like.  However, I
prefer Joe's description of the Shadows - they're spider-like, but not spiders.

 JK>> Suffice it to say, I have a distinct theory about the
 JK>> Shadows.  And the creature we saw on Z'ha'dum didn't
 JK>> appear to be spider-like at all, like I said. :)

 JH> So let's hear it, then. Or are you waiting for it to be
 JH> revealed so you can say "I knew that"? ;)

     Nope, I'm not waiting for that at all.  Suffice it to say, that I just
don't want to get into a long, drawn-out argument about this when we have a good
four months before seeing anything new in B5.

     John
.....
We'd give you a part my love, but you'd have to play the fool.

--- GoldED/2 2.42.G0614
 * Origin: JohnK's OS/2Warp Point - Ottawa, Ontario (1:163/198.5)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 226 of 322
 From : John Kahane                         1:163/198.5     .òp 13 .þí 95 19:29
 To   : Jeff Hancock
 Subj : Vorlon Immortality 3.2
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
In a message of <Saturday June 10 1995 02:48>, Jeff Hancock scribed:

 JK> JH>> Someone needs to update the Logbook, then.
 JK>> Personally, the Logbook is a wonderful thing, but it's
 JK>> based on supposition and assumptions made by the writer.

 JH> What else, if there's no author contact? At least with B5
 JH> there is, for a change.

     The fact that there is author contact means that changes and modifications
should be made to it on a constant basis.  That's been my experience with other
things of a similar nature.  Heck, the B5 files that I created are constantly
undergoing change.  The only stuff that isn't are the episode guides and reviews
(of the ones that are complete).

 JK>> hasn't updated the thing, or that he didn't pay attention
 JK>> to what Joe said about this (if the writer has access to
 JK>> Internet/GEnie at all) is another matter.  But if you're
 JK>> going to do something like the Logbook, then you've got to
 JK>> update it once per season, so...

 JH> So you think this will be fixed next time around?

     I should hope it would be.  And more often than once per season.  Probably
twice per year, if nothing else.

 JK> JH>> Let's hope so, and while they're at it, when does JMS say
 JK> JH>> we'll hear from Draal again?
 JK>> Later this season, Jeff. <g>

 JH> *This* season? Unveiling of Kosh *and* Draal *and* some other
 JH> unspecified "ohmigosh" happenings in only what appear to
 JH> possibly be the four most important episodes so far that due
 JH> to the total idiocy of corporate sponsorship are only going to
 JH> be shown once four months from now? Say it ain't so.

     It's so, Jeff, it's so... *sigh* :<  The only good news right now is that
the Brits and Euros aren't going to see it until after the Americans do.  A
minor consolation, I suppose. :)

 JK> JK> JK>>>> I wouldn't be surprised to find something totally
 JK> JK> JK>>>> predictable underneath the Vorlon encounter suit.
 JK> JK> JH>>> I suppose he'll look like the classic cliche of God?
 JK> JK>>> Nope, not like God or an angel.  That's been the
 JK> JK>>> consensus on some of the B5 echoes and newsgroups, and
 JK> JK>>> to be honest with you,
 JK> JH>> What was the consensus, that Kosh would, or wouldn't?
 JK>> That Kosh would look like an angel or God, but since
 JK>> Joe's said that only one person got it right, well... ;)

 JH> Well what, you're waiting to find out it'll be you? ;)

     Nope, I wasn't even on Usenet at that time. :)

 JH> So what's your predictable, yet almost totally overlooked
 JH> hypothesis?

     Nice try, but no cigar. :)  Frankly, I just don't think Kosh is going to
be something like a predictable figure out of religion or some such.  That would
be kind of silly, given the science fiction nature of B5, for one thing; for
another, the business about the angels and all would tie in to the Minbari soul
business I suspect, and that would be too much coincidence - sort of like giving
Sinclair the connection to the Shadows as well.

 JK>> Could be.  I don't personally think so, since that
 JK>> doesn't seem to make sense within the context of the First
 JK>> Ones, and Joe's a bit more subtle than that, imo.

 JH> I'd prefer it if he'd just use the brick method on this one. ;)

     He can't use the brick method on this one, Jeff, simply because there's
been so much hype and all around this element of the series that a lot of fans
are likely to be very disappointed with the outcome, regardless.

 JH> Well, as you will know from the online chat, Joe has said
 JH> that "the story will be told", in one form or another.

     Yeah, there is that. :)  Even if we don't know what he means by it, or
what form it might take.  Personally, I don't know whether it would effectively
come across in novels or comics or whatever medium...tv is where it's at,
although I could see films.  However, he'd need a backer for that.

 JH> ...the top syndicated shows, and B5 wasn't even on the top
 JH> twenty.  Granted it's doing reruns, but still... How does it
 JH> usually rank?

     JMS has said, iirc, that B5 ranks consistently in the top ten syndicated
shows, and that it's been in the better half of that circle for long periods of
time during first-run episodes.  But don't quote me on that - it's been a long
time since I've seen a ratings post from him.

     John
.....
We'd give you a part my love, but you'd have to play the fool.

--- GoldED/2 2.42.G0614
 * Origin: JohnK's OS/2Warp Point - Ottawa, Ontario (1:163/198.5)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 227 of 322
 From : Gloria Darcy                        1:124/8107      .òp 13 .þí 95 19:58
 To   : Pamela Crossett
 Subj : HighLander, The Series
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Hi Pamela!  I must have missed that!  I don't recall Jack hinting that some
regulars wouldn't be back.  I'm glad, too, that Amanda survived Kallas.  I've
always liked her character.  She has spunk and is fun-natured and a good
side-kick for Duncan.  She brings out his fun side, too, I think.  I hate
summertime!  I always have to wait so long for the season opener of my fave
shows like the Highlander, and the X-Files.  And boy, were we left hanging on
the X-Files BIG TIME!  Man!

Gloria


--- Maximus/2 2.02
 * Origin: Palindrome WriterNet [Fiction&Non] (1:124/8107)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 228 of 322
 From : Gloria Darcy                        1:124/8107      .òp 13 .þí 95 20:01
 To   : Jack Butler
 Subj : Crosspost
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Oh!  Thanks for clearing up that Roger Daltrey question.  You're right, of
course, as you always are!  Our Highalnder Guru.  What would we do without you?
:)

Gloria


--- Maximus/2 2.02
 * Origin: Palindrome WriterNet [Fiction&Non] (1:124/8107)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 229 of 322
 From : Gloria Darcy                        1:124/8107      .òp 13 .þí 95 20:02
 To   : John Kahane
 Subj : Earth 2/So Long
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Oh.  You already knew it was cancelled?  I didn't.  I heard here after the fact
that it had been cancelled.  Haven't had much time for the BBS boards lately now
that I'm working 2 jobs.  Yeah, it kind of left me numb, too, only because I
didn't really know if Devon was dead or not.  I didn't like that ending very
much.

Gloria


--- Maximus/2 2.02
 * Origin: Palindrome WriterNet [Fiction&Non] (1:124/8107)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 230 of 322
 From : Frank Glover                        1:2613/477      .òp 13 .þí 95 20:21
 To   : Mark Jones
 Subj : Re: Torres in Faces
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

MJ>  And suppose half the crew decides they *want* to stay?  After all,
MJ>  why
MJ>  spend most of your life in a starship risking death by accident,
MJ>  attack or simple failure of systems that aren't being maintained
MJ>  properly (because they *can't* be) when you'll only get back home
MJ>  after 70 years anyhow?  Why not stay on a very pleasant, friendly
MJ>  world and build a new life there?
MJ>
MJ>  How does Janeway and the command crew handle this?  Do they lock

   I suppose they stay. No ship can handle a sufficently large defection. One
might try the kind of minimal crew modifications that Scotty did in ST:III, but
that requires virtually nothing going wrong in the meantime, no suprises,
nothing. (Kirk expected to take The Enterprise with only McCoy to the Genesis
planet, beam up Spock's body, and go to Mt Selaya on Vulcan. He didn't count on
his senior officers accompanying him, and couldn't anticipate the Klingon
presence out there. The engagement with them was more than the automations
could, or were expected to handle...and, as you say, Voyager may have to do the
whole 70 year trip.)

   I would want to keep trying to get home, but you can't forec that desire on
those who may have given up. One civilization already enticed them to stay, and
those who obtained their technology without authorization also already showed
Janeway that she doesn't have the luxury of normal disciplinary procedures out
there.

   You win, show ends.

   Frank


--- QuickBBS 2.80 GoldBase (Zeta-1)
 * Origin: The Matrix Data Bank BBS, Rochester, Ny (1:2613/477)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 231 of 322
 From : Frank Glover                        1:2613/477      .òp 13 .þí 95 20:26
 To   : Mark Jones
 Subj : Re: ST: The Next Generation
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

MJ>  Well, since I think 24th century medicine should be vastly more
MJ>  effective than it appears to be, I'm willing to let them slide on
MJ>  that
MJ>  one.  (But they're good questions nonetheless.)

   Agreed. For one, control of the aging process will come *well* before that,
and possibly in time for some of us today.

   But, since all we have to work with are 20th Century actors who *do* age, I
suppose one has to accept it for now. (Still, a 140 year old Leonard McCoy
suggests *some* advancement, though not much....)

   Frank


--- QuickBBS 2.80 GoldBase (Zeta-1)
 * Origin: The Matrix Data Bank BBS, Rochester, Ny (1:2613/477)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 232 of 322
 From : ROBERT LIDGREN                      1:134/10        .òp 13 .þí 95 22:51
 To   : TOM HUBER
 Subj : HUBER WRITES
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
-> Asimov had politics, but they weren't an extension of today. More what we
-> might see in the future. I've done the same thing with my series and used a
-> "what if" approach to today's social problems. What if we passed such and
-> such a law? What would be the impact upon society and what kind of problems
-> might arise because of such a law? That's a central theme to

Hi Tom!

I enjoyed your replies to my messages.  You have interesting ideas and you
articulate them with great precision.

By the way, in the quote above, you refer to "my series."  Are you an author?
Pardon me if I've missed your work.  Please fill me in if you do write books,
stories, or articles.  I'd be keen to read more of your work!

Cheers,

Robert Lidgren

----------------------------------
robert.lidgren@bbs.logicnet.com
----------------------------------
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Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 233 of 322
 From : ROBERT LIDGREN                      1:134/10        .òp 13 .þí 95 22:53
 To   : TOM HUBER
 Subj : EARTH 2/SO LONG
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
-> Heh! I've got my own SF series in the works and although it is
-> considerably different from Earth 2 (or Trek, for that matter), there are a
-> lot of complex social issues around. There are a lot of politics in the
-> story, and those that come to realize what is happening find ways to work
-> the system to their advantage... Of course, I wouldn't have to write SF to
-> tell that story today - there's enough of that already happening.

Greetings Tom!

Well, SHUT MY MOUTH WIDE OPEN!  I read the answer to my own question in this
message from you!  It sounds like a series of novels I must read.  Have they
been published yet?

Cheers,

Robert Lidgren
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Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 234 of 322
 From : ROBERT LIDGREN                      1:134/10        .òp 13 .þí 95 23:05
 To   : NICOLE WILSON
 Subj : EARTH 2/SO LONG
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Hi Nicole!

You said:

------------------------------------------------------

-> I guess I'm 58? and don't forget to add the 60 or so people in the Earth2
-> fido echo, as well as the rather sizeable (hundreds) group on AOL, and the
-> groups of similar sizes on GEnie, Prodigy, Delphi, Compuserve and the
-> Usenet, (alt.tv.earth2) as well as the WWW pages (4 run by MCA, and 5
-> fan-run pages) which are being visited rather frequently. I can't believe
-> everything that's been going on as far as Earth 2 is concerned. Earth 2
-> stuff is everywhere on the nets.

-------------------------------------------------------

Well, I am embarrassed to admit I was ignorant or Earth 2 comments in these
"OTHER" areas.  Thankyou for filling me in!

RANDOM EXTRA COMMENTS:

As I type, MY tv is on over my shoulder.  A&E is presenting a documentary on
the propaganda techniques of Joseph Goebbels.  The horrors are harder to take
now that I have quite a bit more life-experience under my belt and a family of
my own.

Science fiction has frequently used the Nazi era as a good metaphor for
dissecting facsist and dictatorial societies in the future.  What is so
alarming is that thousands, if not millions, of people were "taken in" by the
emotional night time Nazi rallies, the use of "heroic" symbols and salutes from
the Roman Empire, and the use of FILM to manipulate the emotions of the public.

It reminds me of the cliche that still maintains power:  "All it takes for evil
to triumph is for enough 'good people' to do NOTHING."


Cheers,

Robert Lidgren

------------------------------------
robert.lidgren@bbs.logicnet.com
------------------------------------
--- PCBoard 15.2
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Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 235 of 322
 From : ROBERT LIDGREN                      1:134/10        .òp 13 .þí 95 23:17
 To   : JEFF SCHLENKER
 Subj : EARTH 2/SO LONG
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
-> What happened to the good ole days when shows were given a chance.  I
-> remember a little sitcom called Cheers (my favorite of all time) that, in
-> it's first season, was near the bottom in the ratings.  We all know what
-> happened to that show, now don't we.  :)

BRAVO!!  Well done!

Gee, that's a damn fine example of just what we want to happen now!

May I also be so bold and give another powerful example??

Thirty years ago, or so, a TV network cancelled Star Trek.  Look what can
happen when there is enough fan support.  Not only didn't the Star Trek
universe nor Roddenberry's philosophy die out but it's still thriving TODAY.
Now, it may have its detractors and even I sometimes worry about fans, perhaps,
fixating on it too much, nevertheless it HAS SURVIVIED and THRIVES because our
sense of a very real human propensity.  We crave SOME sense that the future is
a place where we will find hope, improvement and human beings not just simply
"surviving" but progressing towards some better way to live.

I think the "Cyberpunk" novels and films have a quality which is sometimes
disappointing.  They are so bloody dark!  Living on earth seems to be
transformed into a VERY LOW common denominator.  Strife, drug abuse, a
PERMANENT UNDERCLASS, heros who are mostly anti-heros, young people who seem to
have no role models other than gang leaders, etc., etc.  I don't mean to say
all we want is some sugar-coated, Pollyanna view of the future but for goodness
sake, let's strive for something better, something uplifting and something
which makes us greater than we are in 1995 with the Bosnia Conflict as an
archetype for what may be ahead!

Cheers,

Robert Lidgren

---------------------------------
robert.lidgren@bbs.logicnet.com
---------------------------------
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Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 236 of 322
 From : ROBERT LIDGREN                      1:134/10        .òp 13 .þí 95 23:44
 To   : ALL
 Subj : Earth 2 Cross Post
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Ahem!!!

While reading REC.ARTS.SF.TV I came upon the following message.
It contains ideas re: resurecting Earth 2, or at least the address for the
Earth 2 e-mail Newsletter.  Check it out if this is of interest to you:

START OF CROSS-POST INSERT

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: 06-13-95 (01:43)              Number: 18168 of 18170 (Refer# NONE)
  To: ALL
From: gc3@infinet.com, George Cifrancis
Subj: Re: UPN May Pick Up E2 !!!

Newsgroups: alt.tv.earth2
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.tv
From: gc3@infinet.com (George Cifrancis)
Subject: Re: UPN May Pick Up E2 !!!
Date: 12 Jun 1995 19:16:49 GMT
Organization: InfiNet
References: <mjholmes-0906951657420001@ana0011.deltanet.com>
Message-ID: <3ri3r1$iuc@horus.infinet.com>

AniMaAmin (animaamin@aol.com) wrote:

: After every E2 episode, I write a nice E-mail letter to NBC thanking them
: for airing it. I also ask them to please continue to show reruns through
: the summer... and also ask them to reconsider their cancellation. It
: doesn't hurt to "make nice" and perhaps we will AT LEAST get our reruns,
: continue to build our viewer base, and attract more folks to our letter
: writing campaign. Here are the NBC addresses (peebeeone is Preston
: Beckman, FYI):

: peebeeone@aol.com
: viewersv@nbc.com
: viewersv@corpcomm.nbc.com

Well I just got the new TV Guide here in Columbus, Ohio and they are showing
2 episodes of Fresh Prince at 7pm (the normal slot for E2). They are still
showing ShitQuest at 8pm though.  I'd hate to say it, but it looks like
we won't be seeing Earth 2 anymore.  8-(

George C.

EARTH 2 Foundations
--
/---------------------------------------------------------------------------\
|   George Cifrancis III        Programmer/Analyst/System Administrator     |
|   Columbus, Ohio USA          Ohio Bureau of Workers' Compensation        |
|   gc3@infinet.com             MIS - Wide Area Network Support (AT&T/SUN)  |
|---------------------------------------------------------------------------|
|             My Web Page:      http://www.infinet.com/~gc3/                |
|   My Jessica Steen Page:      http://www.infinet.com/~gc3/steen.html      |
\---------------------------------------------------------------------------/

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

END OF CROSS-POST FROM Robert Lidgren
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Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 237 of 322
 From : Boris CDuke                         2:463/2.22      .óá 17 .þí 95 21:39
 To   : Like&Lee
 Subj : Zelazny IS DEAD!
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Ïîçâîëþ ñåáå âûñêàçàòü íåìåðÿíûå ïðèâåòñòâèÿ Like&Lee!

A sad day for all science fiction fans.

---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: 16 Jun 1995 07:20:07 EST
From: CHRISTINE T CALLAHAN <STUMBAUG@MAIL.LOC.GOV>
To: cstu@loc.gov
Subject: DEATH IN SF FAMILY

------------------------------------
AUTHOR: CHRISTINE T CALLAHAN
------------------------------------
Washington Post, Fri. morning: Roger Zelazny died  June  16th  of
complications from cancer.

    Þßßß Ñ íåìåðÿíûìè,
    ÞÝßÛ
    ÞÝÛÛ îðèñ

--- GoldED 2.41+

 * Origin: Imagineering (2:463/2.22)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 238 of 322
 From : Boris CDuke                         2:463/2.22      .òp 20 .þí 95 23:13
 To   : All
 Subj : zelazny
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
=============================================================================
* Forwarded by Boris CDuke (2:463/2.22)
* Area : NETMAIL001 (GEcho Netmail)
* From : Boris CDuke, 2:463/2.22 (Âòp Èþí 20 1995 23:12)
* To   : Like&Lee
* Subj : zelazny
=============================================================================
Ïîçâîëþ ñåáå âûñêàçàòü íåìåðÿíûå ïðèâåòñòâèÿ Like&Lee!

> Here are some additional details. Zelazny died last night of from liver
> malfunction which was the result of colin cancer. He apparently did not
> tell anyone that he had cancer except for a few close friends and family.
> The condition had been in remission until recently.
>                                       Austin
>                                    adridge@panix.com


 * Origin: Imagineering (2:463/2.22)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 239 of 322
 From : Brian Henderson                     1:207/241       .åò 15 .þí 95 15:46
 To   : Frank Eva
 Subj : B5 Reruns???
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

FE> Do you mean videotaped copies of programs that air in England in
FE> August?

Yes we do. Converted from PAL to NTSC (there are people there with
multi-format machines) who would be happy to send us copies after they
air.


___
 X RM 1.3  X Eval Day 1 X "You're the computer...YOU tell me where the file is!"

--- Maximus 2.02
 * Origin: The Belching Dragon Inn & Tavern (1:207/241)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 240 of 322
 From : Brian Henderson                     1:207/241       .åò 15 .þí 95 15:48
 To   : David Johnston
 Subj : B5 Ripoff: Ds9
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

DJ> Actually Babylon 5 is slowly starting to get on my nerves.
DJ> Apparently by the time the series is over, Earth will be a full
DJ> blown dictatorship. This is not the direction I would prefer.  I
DJ> would at least like to see some signs of opposition developing
DJ> against the trend.

Who has ever said that?!?!? In fact, much the opposite is likely. Earth
is, as we are discovering, a full-blown dictatorship *NOW* under the
power of Bureau 13 and Psi-Corps. The President is just a puppet,
involved in the murder of his predecessor, but who runs the government
with an iron hand.

If anything, we'll see Bureau 13 and Psi-Corps fall before the end of
the series.

___
 X RM 1.3  X Eval Day 1 X My favorite mythical creature? An honest attorney.

--- Maximus 2.02
 * Origin: The Belching Dragon Inn & Tavern (1:207/241)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 241 of 322
 From : Brian Henderson                     1:207/241       .åò 15 .þí 95 15:50
 To   : Jim Cushing
 Subj : B5 Ripoff: Ds9
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

JC> Sorry Brian DS9 is syndicated and therefore UPN has no control over
JC> it.

UPN is an arm of Paramount, hence Paramount, which controls both, can
certainly cancel Voyager and DS9 as they wish. Unlike Warner, which is
very segmented, Paramount is an overbody which directly controls all
arms of the company. Warner is set up like parallel companies, each
competing with one another (which is why Babylon-5 will never appear on
WBN, since WBN and PTEN are in direct competition with one another).

JC> You stated earlier that UPN is cancelling every show except Voyager.
JC> Don't you mean you watch B-5 on the UPN affilate?

Correction, UPN is cancelling (almost) every Paramount show, the
exception now possibly being Legend. If they were cancelling everything,
we wouldn't have news, etc.

___
 X RM 1.3  X Eval Day 1 X Unicorns aren't nearly as mythical as virgins.

--- Maximus 2.02
 * Origin: The Belching Dragon Inn & Tavern (1:207/241)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 242 of 322
 From : Brian Henderson                     1:207/241       .åò 15 .þí 95 15:54
 To   : Jim Cushing
 Subj : B5 Ripoff: Ds9
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

JC> Get real! If what you say is true then I guess you believe that
JC> shows like Three's Company and Charlie's Angels were created for and
JC> viewed by the "kid" audience. I don't know about you but when I was
JC> 16(a loonngg time ago) the last thing I wanted to do was to watch
JC> TV.

Nevertheless, in every demographics I've ever seen for TNG, and I would
assume the same goes for Voyager (but perhaps not DS9), the majority of
fans are assumed to be teenage males. The second largest segment are
males, aged 16-35. In both cases, it appeals almost exclusively to a
male audience, mostly a young male audience.

What the heck would Three's Company and Charlie's Angels have to do with
Star Trek?

JC> Your missing the key word "Syndication"! When TNG proved that SF did
JC> not have to be shown on network to be successful it opened doors for
JC> shows like B-5, Highlander, Forever Knight. TNG had that built in
JC> audience that "helped" it succeed. B-5 would not have been
JC> syndicated if not for the success of TNG.

And I'll agree with you here, since TNG pretty well invented first-run
syndcation. However, the original statement was that TNG opened the
door for *TELEVISION SCI-FI*, which is patently false.

___
 X RM 1.3  X Eval Day 1 X I shot JFK and all I got was this lousy t-shirt

--- Maximus 2.02
 * Origin: The Belching Dragon Inn & Tavern (1:207/241)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 243 of 322
 From : Brian Henderson                     1:207/241       .åò 15 .þí 95 15:57
 To   : Frank Eva
 Subj : Babylon 5 (Pten)
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

FE> According to the latest TV Guide, B5 didn't even rank in the top 120
FE> shows this season... What gives?

Check the syndicated listings.


___
 X RM 1.3  X Eval Day 1 X "Help me, Dave - I can't run under Windows." H.A.L.
9000

--- Maximus 2.02
 * Origin: The Belching Dragon Inn & Tavern (1:207/241)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 244 of 322
 From : Brian Henderson                     1:207/241       .åò 15 .þí 95 15:58
 To   : Ecarey
 Subj : Babylon 5 (Pten)
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

EE> And that last is the critical point, of course. B5 isn't being
EE> specially put-upon; it's just a new show in a category the industry
EE> doesn't understand all that well, that hasn't had Trek's three
EE> decades yet to build its audience and \convince\ Warner to lavish
EE> money on it the way Paramount lavishes money on Trek.

Considering that Paramount has made their name and fortune on Star Trek,
something that Warner simply hasn't done, it is only understandable.
Star Trek is Paramount's cash cow.

EE> Remember, B5 has only just come to the end of its second season.  At
EE> the end of ITS second season, Trek was \cancelled\ and saved only by
EE> the unprecedented enthusiasm of its fans.  And in its third season,
EE> it was given a lousy time-slot and starved for funds.

Very true. Now that B5 has been officially renewed for season three,
and will be receiving, from what I understand, a substantial increase in
cash flow from Warner, we'll have to see what they do with it. Outside
of Star Trek, B5 is the only sci-fi show to have made it this far in 20
years.

___
 X RM 1.3  X Eval Day 1 X Reality is whatever remains when you stop believing in
it.

--- Maximus 2.02
 * Origin: The Belching Dragon Inn & Tavern (1:207/241)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 245 of 322
 From : Brian Henderson                     1:207/241       .åò 15 .þí 95 16:01
 To   : Frank Eva
 Subj : Cancellations
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

FE> Does this mean Legend is gone, too?

Legend was cancelled, but UPN has decided to give it a second chance to
redeem itself.

In the same vein, Sliders, which had been cancelled, has been given a
reprive as a mid-season replacement next year.


___
 X RM 1.3  X Eval Day 1 X "Go In Peace. Sin No More! I'm Outta Here!" - Joel,
MST3K

--- Maximus 2.02
 * Origin: The Belching Dragon Inn & Tavern (1:207/241)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 246 of 322
 From : Brian Henderson                     1:207/241       .åò 15 .þí 95 16:02
 To   : Frank Eva
 Subj : Star Trek
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

FE> The examples you gave both deal with militarism. Have you ever
FE> thought that Gene Roddenberry may not have wanted his concept to be
FE> associated with war-mongering? So, this may not be a matter of the
FE> 'universe never changing', but rather the long-term emphasis being
FE> placed on peaceful solutions to crises...

Didn't both of these examples come up after GR died? If so, what
difference does it make? Roddenberry was riding a pipe dream if he
thought that humanity would suddenly stop fighting and participating in
wars, as TNG showed quite clearly.

There are other examples, however. Take the first season episode of TNG
in which the heads of Starfleet were taken over by those alien
parasites. The episode left you thinking "where are the rest of them,
and do they still pose a threat?" yet TNG dropped that plotline like a
hot rock.

___
 X RM 1.3  X Eval Day 1 X "I got Sammy Davis eyes" - Crow on Eye Creature, MST3K

--- Maximus 2.02
 * Origin: The Belching Dragon Inn & Tavern (1:207/241)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 247 of 322
 From : Brian Henderson                     1:207/241       .åò 15 .þí 95 16:06
 To   : Frank Eva
 Subj : B5 Renewed!
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

FE> I always thought that given the choice, JMS could NOT turn down an
FE> opportunity to cash in on his own product. I don't blame him. If I
FE> had a popular property and could earn some money off it, I wouldn't
FE> hesitate. I think what makes this look bad is that prior to the
FE> offer, JMS took such a hard line against franchising B5. He now
FE> looks a bit hypocritical...

JMS has never, EVER said that there will be no marketing of B5 material,
only that the show will drive the marketing, not the marketing driving
the show. Star Trek has had to introduce too many new characters and
ships simply because Matchbox or whoever is chomping at the bit to make
more toys and action figures.

Everything that will bear the label for B5 goes past JMS' desk. If he
doesn't okay it personally, it doesn't get made.

___
 X RM 1.3  X Eval Day 1 X "Think How Disturbing THAT Would Be! Ahhhh!" - Joel,
MST3K

--- Maximus 2.02
 * Origin: The Belching Dragon Inn & Tavern (1:207/241)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 248 of 322
 From : Brian Henderson                     1:207/241       .åò 15 .þí 95 16:13
 To   : Robert Lidgren
 Subj : B5 Vs St              1/
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

RL> 3.  A sufficiently "likeable" nature that we didn't ENTIRELY hate
RL> the guy.

Actually, what Khan had that no other Star Trek villain had was a
*MOTIVE*! He had an understandable, and probably correct reason for
feeling and acting like he did. Far too often, Star Trek has decided
that the good guys have to wear white hats so we'll know who they are
when this simply doesn't happen in real life.

Who is good and who is bad most often depends on whose side you're on.

___
 X RM 1.3  X Eval Day 1 X "She survived, now she's gotta be in the film" - Crow,
MST3K

--- Maximus 2.02
 * Origin: The Belching Dragon Inn & Tavern (1:207/241)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 249 of 322
 From : Brian Henderson                     1:207/241       .åò 15 .þí 95 16:17
 To   : Frank Eva
 Subj : Babylon 5 (Pten)
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

FE> Just guessing, but it seems obvious to me that JMS is not going to
FE> let the B5 comics or novels advance the main storyline of B5: The TV
FE> Series.

JMS has already said that the novels and comics exist to both flesh out
the storyline with details not necessary to the main arc, and to go off
and tell new stories in the B5 universe.

FE> Last season, because of this episode, I speculated that Kosh's
FE> people were "energy beings", but then I was reminded that they do
FE> need an artificial "environment" inside B5, and that Kosh had
FE> actually been poisoned in one episode, both of which seem to imply
FE> more than an energy being is inside that encounter suit...

Unless, as has been suggested, Kosh does these things to lead people
off-track. Was he really poisoned, or was he simply testing mankind?
Does he need that environment and the suit, or does he use them for
concealment?  Only time will tell...

___
 X RM 1.3  X Eval Day 1 X "My name is Crow. I'm a Pisces" - Crow as beatnik,
MST3K

--- Maximus 2.02
 * Origin: The Belching Dragon Inn & Tavern (1:207/241)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 250 of 322
 From : Brian Henderson                     1:207/241       .åò 15 .þí 95 16:29
 To   : Frank Eva
 Subj : Voyager Nose Diving?
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

FE> I have given it a chance. I taped all of the first 9 episodes, and
FE> will keep them in my collection. Since then, the quality has
FE> nosedived, and the writers seem content to rehash old themes.

Well, I'll agree with the last half. I watched the premiere movie, and
was so disgusted by the end that I turned off the tape and erased it.

FE> I have never expected a "continuing" story in any Star Trek. In
FE> fact, that is proving a major disadvantage for diehard B5 fans who
FE> have now been told that they won't have any more of the B5 story
FE> until next October. If this show hadn't been a continuing story, it
FE> would have been much easier to accept a major postponement, but to
FE> have 4 episodes postponed 4 months when you were expecting them now,
FE> is almost too much to bear, especially considering we won't even see
FE> the 2nd season "finale" this season!

Tell that to the trekkies who were whining all summer about Best of Both
Worlds. It isn't easy doing without a show you love, especially since
you have some reason to look forward to the new episodes.

___
 X RM 1.3  X Eval Day 1 X "Sail on, Servo!  I love a robot with panache!" -
MST3K

--- Maximus 2.02
 * Origin: The Belching Dragon Inn & Tavern (1:207/241)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 251 of 322
 From : Brian Henderson                     1:207/241       .åò 15 .þí 95 16:31
 To   : Frank Eva
 Subj : Who To Write To For B5
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

FE> RY>to B5 watchers!  Converse with JMS on GEnie, CIS or Delphi!

FE> Or the internet at straczynski@genie.geis.com...

Or on Usenet on rec.arts.sf.tv.babylon5.


___
 X RM 1.3  X Eval Day 1 X "Oh sweet Information Super Highway" - Crow, MST3K

--- Maximus 2.02
 * Origin: The Belching Dragon Inn & Tavern (1:207/241)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 252 of 322
 From : Ecarey                              1:101/230       .åò 15 .þí 95 18:36
 To   : Pamela Crossett
 Subj : SPOILERS
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 >tb> "While skinny dipping Pamela Crossett was talking to Mark Jones."
 >
 >tb> "Could you people PLEASE put spoiler alerts in your messages!  DAMMIT!"
 >
 > Tammy,
 >
 > i'm sorry, but what is a spoiler alert? i will certainly put one in
 > my future messages if you could clarify what it is. AND what it is
 > for.
 >
 > thanks.
 >
 > and sorry for my ignorance.

A spoiler alert is a warning that there's a "spoiler" in the post, followed by
enough lines of blank screen to push the actual spoiler far enough down that the
person reading the post can read the spoiler warning without reading the
spoiler, and DECIDE if they want to read the spoiler.

A "spoiler" is something which reveals a important plot information about a
book, film, or episode of a television show.

--- FLAME v1.0
 * Origin: Withouta Net - Drop In Anytime! - 617/846-5416 (1:101/230)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 253 of 322
 From : Ecarey                              1:101/230       .åò 15 .þí 95 18:55
 To   : Jeff Hancock
 Subj : B5 RENEWED!
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 > Far as I can tell, his objection is just to putting out "any old
 > crap"
 > JUST for merchandising. If he was putting in new ships and new races
 > just to create action figures and playsets, or if he was making
 > multiple
 > spinoff series with no real point to them other than to sell more
 > product, then that would be hypocritical.

Of course, RIGHT NOW, he wouldn't be able to \sell\ "multiple spinoff series",
whether there was a point to them or not.  It's easy to be virtuous when nobody
is trying to tempt you.

RIGHT NOW, B5 has an awful lot of ancillary merchandise - books, comic books,
Micromachines, caps, jackets - and it has only just come to the end of its
second broadcast season. This much merchandise this soon is just not believable,
unless the merchandising plan was developed in parallel with the series
production plan.

And if there really is good quality control [a theory NOT supported by the
sloppiness of the novels, or the complaints I've seen here and elsewhere about
the comics], that would argue even more strongly for the plans having already
been \in place\ when the series first aired. You don't \get\ good control on a
rush job.

 > If the fans are asking for this kind of material, well...

JMS has carefully cultivated the demand.

Which is not, after all, \sinful\.  He's doing this for living, after all, NOT
out of a self-sacrificing desire to give his all for quality SF on television.
However much he wants to do \that\, TOO, he won't get to \continue\ doing it if
B5 doesn't turn a respectable profit.  And there's no reason why he SHOULDN'T
make money off of producing good entertainment.

But it does make the desperate attempts to make B5 marketing look Pure and
Noble, while characterizing Trek marketing [which really did develop out of fan
demand \first\, including widespread fan infringement on Paramount's Trek
trademark] as wicked money-grubbing, look rather silly.

And it's not JMS we see those foolish attempts from, either.

--- FLAME v1.0
 * Origin: Withouta Net - Drop In Anytime! - 617/846-5416 (1:101/230)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 254 of 322
 From : Ecarey                              1:101/230       .åò 15 .þí 95 19:01
 To   : Frank Eva
 Subj : CONFESSIONS & LAMENTATION
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 > JK>     The really neat thing is that the business with the Markabs
 > is
 > JK>not the "decimation of a major race's homeworld" that JMS has
 > been
 > JK>hinting at for a while.  Looks like the dying hasn't even started
 > JK>yet.
 >
 > Why do you say that? Couldn't it still be the Markabs that JMS was
 > talking about when he said we'd see the "decimation of a major
 > race's
 > homeworld"?

Over on rec.arts.sf.tv.babylon5, JMS has said that the death of the Markabs
\isn't\ the "decimation of a major race's homeworld" that he's promised.

--- FLAME v1.0
 * Origin: Withouta Net - Drop In Anytime! - 617/846-5416 (1:101/230)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 255 of 322
 From : Ecarey                              1:101/230       .åò 15 .þí 95 19:06
 To   : Frank Eva
 Subj : B5 FRANCHISING
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 > BB>He's never quite come out and said, "The B5 novels bite the wax
 > BB>tadpole." But he's sure danced up to the edge of saying that; it
 > BB>sounds like the deal he ended up with there is not the deal he
 > BB>thought he had, and any hypothetical future books are going to be
 > BB>written by people _he_ picks, rather than assigned to him by the
 > BB>publisher.
 >
 FE> I don't care who he picks to write them, if he doesn't allow them to
 >
 > advance the storyline in any way...

Frank, B5 would be DEAD as a tv show, if it became necessary to go scurrying
after the comics and the novels just to be able to follow the storyline. So
unless you want to kill the series, this is silly complaint.

 > BB>point of the TV show is that it should stand on its own - people
 > BB>shouldn't _have_ to get anything but the show to follow the major
 > BB>developments. We are fortunate in having secondary media that
 > affect
 > BB>the show at all: compare the Trek novels and comics, with their
 > BB>total disconnection from the show.
 >
 FE> This is an UNfortunate consequence of there being a 5 year story
 > "arc",
 > which is something trek never had. Trek novelists had leeway to make
 > good original sci-fi stories. All we get from B5 novelists is 'cloak
 > and
 > dagger' and 'murder-they-wrote'.

This isn't what the people who've written Trek novels say [and I know one of
them extremely well, and others more casually.  The Trek novel writers all say
that the restrictions are extreme, often silly, and subject to change without
notice.

--- FLAME v1.0
 * Origin: Withouta Net - Drop In Anytime! - 617/846-5416 (1:101/230)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 256 of 322
 From : Brian Henderson                     1:207/241       .åò 15 .þí 95 22:18
 To   : All
 Subj : St Vs. B5
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Just wanted to throw in something from JMS on the ST vs. B5 thread.
This was originally posted on Compuserve, FYI.

Subj:  What --Persecuted??!!            Section: Babylon 5
  To:  Thursday, June 08, 1995 6:15:00 PM
From:  J. Michael Straczynski, 71016,1644#234870

     You have to step back and look at this from Paramount's
perspective. For 27 years, they've had a lock on space-based SF.
A monopoly.  They could point to all the other space-SF series
which went by the boards quickly, and say, "See, we've lasted, so we
MUST be better."

     If even ONE other show in this genre not only lasts, but
*succeeds*, then ST isn't the Only One anymore; it's just one of
two, or three, or more shows set in this genre.  It isn't
unique (fiscally) anymore, and thus they are afraid they'll lose
some of its marketability, the franchise will weaken.  If you wanted
something from our future, in space, then for 27 years you had only
one place to go: Trek.

     They're *terrified* of losing or softening their franchise.
They're aware that support for DS9 is, in general, fairly soft;
 Voyager is still getting its sea legs, and they don't want
anyone else coming up alongside and blindsiding them.

     For our part, we have never responded in kind.  When we
formed the B5 softball team, playing other shows, we happily
told the folks at ST that we'd love to play them sometime.
Thus far, no response.  Can't imagine why.

                                                             jms


___
 X RM 1.3  X Eval Day 1 X (horrified) No! Not the Knights who say Ni!

--- Maximus 2.02
 * Origin: The Belching Dragon Inn & Tavern (1:207/241)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 257 of 322
 From : Tom Huber                           1:115/477       .ÿò 16 .þí 95 23:12
 To   : Kay Shapero
 Subj : What if
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.11  94-0102

KS>Speaking of which, have you read STEEL BEACH by John Varley?  Takes a
  >number of really impressive "what ifs" and has a great time exploring 'em.
  > (Got the doggondest first sentence, too. :->)

I'll ad that one to my list, Kay. I've heard some good things about this
story from other people, so I'll have to grab a copy.

KS>Things like "what if - people could and did change sex with about the ease
  >of rhinoplasty?" or "what if - technic humanity was kicked off the Earth
  >and had to survive in the rest of the solar system?" and the effect on
  >society of these changes.

Oooh. I am starting to see some stories in there... Thanks for the
ideas...

Tom

--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.11
 * Origin: StarSpawn BBS, A MidWest FurNet BBS 616-983-1834  (1:115/477.0)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 258 of 322
 From : Starwolf                            1:163/214       .óá 17 .þí 95 01:56
 To   : Jeff Hancock
 Subj : David vs TREK
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

JH>Wrtr o stf: I'm not really interested in writing for those series at
JH>            this point.

Pity.  B-5 has more depth in some ways, but TREK has a more richly
established universe.  He's proven he can have a wonderful time in that
locale and take us along for the pleasant ride.


 * SLMR 2.1a * Get rid of the middleman:  abolish the provinces"  'Wolf

--- Maximus 2.01wb
 * Origin: Land of Ill Repute (1:163/214)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 259 of 322
 From : Starwolf                            1:163/214       .óá 17 .þí 95 01:57
 To   : Frank Eva
 Subj : B5 Reruns???
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

FE>IMO, this seems like a really BAD move... It is going to incense diehard
FE>B5 fans who were expecting 4 more eps this season...

On the other paw, maybe this will mean four LESS reruns NEXT season.  I
certainly wouldn't mind that.


 * SLMR 2.1a * "My doctor warned me it was bad to laugh so much" - Wolf

--- Maximus 2.01wb
 * Origin: Land of Ill Repute (1:163/214)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 260 of 322
 From : Jeff Schlenker                      1:288/19        .óá 17 .þí 95 03:28
 To   : ROBERT LIDGREN
 Subj : Re: EARTH 2/SO LONG
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

-=> ROBERT LIDGREN was overheard speaking to JEFF SCHLENKER <=-

 -> What happened to the good ole days when shows were given a chance.  I
 -> remember a little sitcom called Cheers (my favorite of all time) that, in
 -> it's first season, was near the bottom in the ratings.  We all know what
 -> happened to that show, now don't we.  :)

 RL> BRAVO!!  Well done!
 RL> Gee, that's a damn fine example of just what we want to happen now!

Thanx, I do what I can.

 RL> May I also be so bold and give another powerful example?
 RL> Thirty years ago, or so, a TV network cancelled Star Trek.  Look what

<<<<<<<<<<<<< Bobbited for Brevity >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Let us also not forget that NBC gave Star Trek THREE YEARS, before they
axed it...  What would have happened had Star Trek premiered today?  I
was unborn at the time, so I don't know, but how much better were ST's
ratings compared to Earth2?  I would guess they weren't better.


Jeffrey A. Schlenker               jeff.schlenker@lake-city.com

... Mr. Worf, fire at will.... NO, NO, NOT COMMANDER RIKER!!!
___ TagDude 0.87 [Unregistered]
---
--- < Sig-It > v3.00 by Brandon S. Bell

--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12
 * Origin: LakeCity BBS * V34/4 Gigs Watertown SD 605 886-0849 (1:288/19)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 261 of 322
 From : Myra I Fox                          1:123/10        .óá 17 .þí 95 05:22
 To   : John Kahane
 Subj : BABYLON 5 (PTEN)
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 |------------------|John Kahane wrote:

JK>That is not true information.  The negotiations for the renewal
JK>of B5 had a lot to do with individual stations, policies concerning
JK>re-runs, and other stuff.  While the series could have been cancelled,
JK>true, there were a *lot* of people who fought to keep it on the air.

I like hearing that!  B5 is one of the few things I watch anymore and it
is good to know that there are others who like it enough to fight to see
the entire cycle of the show.

I watch only 4 shows now and they are all at least marginally sf or
fantasy  :-)   Babylon 5, Highlander, Kung Fu: The Legend Continues and
the X Files.

I'll just keep an eye out here in the echo to see if there are any new
shows coming out I might want to check out <g>.

JK>.....
JK>I hold a cup of wisdom, but there is nothing within.


... The usefulness of the cup is the space within.
... How can you taste my wine if you don't first empty your cup?

... "I'm paying off karma at a vastly accelerated rate" - Ivanova.
---
 * Tag-X Pro v1.20 *
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 * Origin: The Electric Fox - Memphis,TN  1-901-327-1008 (1:123/10)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 262 of 322
 From : Myra I Fox                          1:123/10        .óá 17 .þí 95 06:20
 To   : ROBERT LIDGREN
 Subj : OLD YELLOW EYES/WHERE CAN
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 |------------------|Robert Lidgren wrote:

RL>This is a strnage request but certainly within the bounds of SFFAN.
RL>
RL>Can anyone tell me of a source for the recording Brett Spiner (DATA)
RL>did called "OLD YELLOW EYES?"  Apparently it is a collection of songs


I have seen it in Star Tech's catalog... PO Box 456
                                         Dunlap TN 37327


... "You are right, sir; I *do* tend to babble." - Data
---
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Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 263 of 322
 From : David Johnston                      1:342/14        .óá 17 .þí 95 10:41
 To   : Jason Cathcart
 Subj : Mmpr : The Movie
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
-> Any one else think that it will be totally crappy?

By comparison with what?  It can't be worse than the show.

--- PCBoard (R) v15.21/100
 * Origin: Freddy's Place - Edm. AB - 28.8K (403) 456-4241 (1:342/14)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 264 of 322
 From : John Kahane                         1:163/198.5     .óá 17 .þí 95 14:18
 To   : J Hulley-Miller
 Subj : Vorlon Immortality /2
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Thursday June 15 1995 01:42>, J Hulley-Miller wrote the following to John
Kahane:

 JH> Monday June 05 1995 10:41, John Kahane wrote to Jeff Hancock:
 JK>>>> John Vornholt posted a message noting that the next book

 JH> Posted where ? Tnx.

     John Vornholt posted the message on CompuServe about a three weeks ago or
so, if I remember correctly.  I was quite disappointed in this, since I thought
that the third novel was going to be out in July.

     John
.....
Out in the garden, there's half of a heaven.

--- GoldED/2 2.42.G0614
 * Origin: JohnK's OS/2Warp Point - Ottawa, Ontario (1:163/198.5)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 265 of 322
 From : John Kahane                         1:163/198.5     .óá 17 .þí 95 14:20
 To   : J Hulley-Miller
 Subj : B5 TAPES?
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Thursday June 15 1995 02:11>, J Hulley-Miller wrote the following to Frank
Eva:

 >>FE> Well, the videotapes of the first season of B5

 JH> A post on internet from JMS said that there are no plans at
 JH> the moment. He was surprised by this...

     The most recent post I've seen from Joe on this is that he's looking into
the matter of videotape availability.  We should hear back from him on this in
about a month or so...

     John
.....
It's a plank in me eye, with a camel who's trying to get through it.

--- GoldED/2 2.42.G0614
 * Origin: JohnK's OS/2Warp Point - Ottawa, Ontario (1:163/198.5)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 266 of 322
 From : John Kahane                         1:163/198.5     .óá 17 .þí 95 14:23
 To   : Bruce Baugh
 Subj : Roger Zelazny, 1937-1995
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
In a message of <Wednesday June 14 1995 23:04>, Bruce Baugh scribed:

 BB> According to George R.R. Martin on GEnie this afternoon,
 BB> Roger Zelazny died today of liver failure, the result of an
 BB> extended bout with cancer. This was apparently not the first
 BB> time he'd been close to death.

     Oh, dear...this really makes me sad. :)  Zelazny was one of my favourite
writers, and to hear of his death has made this day somewhat bleaker.  My
condolences to Roger Zelazny's family on their loss.  May Zelazny's spirit walk
the patterns of Amber for eternity.

     John

--- GoldED/2 2.42.G0614
 * Origin: JohnK's OS/2Warp Point - Ottawa, Ontario (1:163/198.5)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 267 of 322
 From : Patrick Thoms                       1:229/510       .cê 18 .þí 95 00:04
 To   : Robert Lidgren
 Subj : OLD YELLOW EYES/WHERE CAN
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

RL>Can anyone tell me of a source for the recording Brett Spiner (DATA)
 >did cal "OLD YELLOW EYES?"  Apparently it is a collection of songs and
 >one of the tracks features back-up from some of the other cast-members
 >of Star Trek:  T Next Generation.

I have the tape. Good music too! I heard he's done another one. The
jacket doesn't contain any info on where you can get it or other's but
I'm sure I remember seeing the tape advertised either in Starlog or the
Star Trek Fan Club mags. They also had the soundtrack to the movies and
some of the episodes for TNG. I currently just have "Encounter at
Farpoint" and "The Best of Both Worlds" soundtracks on tape and an
excellent CD called STAR TREK: The Astral Symphony.
---
 þ OLX 2.1 TD þ Shh! Be vewy vewy quiet! I'm hunting wuntime ewwors!
--- FidoPCB v1.4 [ff238/x]
 * Origin: OnLine Now  Thunder Bay  ON, Canada (807)-345-1531 (1:229/510)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 268 of 322
 From : Jeff Schlenker                      1:288/19        .cê 18 .þí 95 03:27
 To   : All
 Subj : DS9 Season 4
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
According to TV Guide, some changes are in order for DS9 this fall.
Some tidbits from Trek honcho Rick Berman.

The new season will launch with a two-hour premiere, where a new cast
member will be introduced.  Berman couldn't reveal any details about
him/her/it but he could "tell you that there will be a slight alteration
in the premise of the show that I think is going to be terrific."

When asked if he could just give a hint, he said, "Ok.  How can I put
this in a way that will let me sleep tonight?  The delicate treaty that
has existed between the Federation and the Klingon Empire... is about to
unravel.  And that's just for starters."

Hmmmm, sounds interesting.


Jeffrey A. Schlenker               jeff.schlenker@lake-city.com

... Die Hard: The Next Generation
___ TagDude 0.87 [Unregistered]
---
--- < Sig-It > v3.00 by Brandon S. Bell

--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12
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Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 269 of 322
 From : Jack Butler                         1:363/309       .cê 18 .þí 95 05:33
 To   : All
 Subj : Crosspost
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
     This one was just too humorous to pass up.
     ******************************************


                     Gee Let's Get Out of Character


     Just wanted to complain, in a huge way!
     I would like to begin by saying that Kallas started out, in episodes
prior to Finale, as the most kick ass villian bar-none.  He would toy with
Duncan and all around him in a very intelligent way.  He would have killed
Dawson just for fun, killed Amanda and still used her for bait and much more.
Instead the writers decided that it was CHEEZ-TIME give some canned villian
sayings, and give him flashes of incredible stupidity.

     Next, three words:    Amanda's Boob Job.  She leaves for a while and
come back looking like she had to buy some new bras and such. (Not really a
complaint, just a comment.)

     Methos:  not much to say here except for a guy that has lived thousands
of years he can do some rather doofy things.  The doofy things that Methos
does could be excused if he were Richie.

     That watcher, I can't remember his name starts with a V?, you know who,
the black guy who decked Dawson.  What a moron.  He is driving toward Kallas
and shooting at him, knowing that he is an immortal.  He finally gets Kallas
on the ground, DROPS HIS GUN, gets out of the car, looks at Kallas laying on
the ground and thinks "I need something sharp" and IGNORES THE SWORD next to
Kallas.  Duh there is an ax behind me I will go get it!  His stupidity has
already killed him nuffsaid.

     Well here is another goodun':  Let's see, if I were part of a secret
society like the Watchers and created a database, I think I might just
require a PASSWORD.  And don't tell me they would not know how!  That
database was more than just a few linked tables, it looked pretty good.
And don't say access, you still would need more than just a do it yourself
book and a clue.

     ***************************************

     There wasn't a name on this... just a INet ID which contained no part
of the poster's name.

     Jack Butler



... "If it came down to just us, would you take my head?" -- MacLeod
--- FMail 0.98a
 * Origin: Forethought BBS -=- Orlando FL -=- 407-277-7530 (1:363/309)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 270 of 322
 From : Jack Butler                         1:363/309       .cê 18 .þí 95 06:07
 To   : All
 Subj : Crosspost
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
     From:  Use-White Wolf
     By:  David Johnston <david.johnston@freddy.com>
     Subject:  Project Twilight

     There was indeed talk of having Darren McGavin come on, *in character*,
and meet Mulder.  However, apparently they're having problems with names,
etc.  Somebody owns the copyright on Carl Kolchak and unless they can deal
with that person or group, they can't use him on X-Files.

     ************************************************************

     Anybody out there hear anything about this?  Is this rumor for real?
If so, I think the idea is too cool for school, myself.  I've always been
a Kolchak fan...

     Jack Butler



... "You should *always* carry protection." -- Fox Mulder
--- FMail 0.98a
 * Origin: Forethought BBS -=- Orlando FL -=- 407-277-7530 (1:363/309)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 271 of 322
 From : Jack Butler                         1:363/309       .cê 18 .þí 95 06:44
 To   : All
 Subj : Kilmer as Batman
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
     Warner Brothers has already announced that both Val Kilmer and Chris
O'Donnell have signed to make further Batman films after this one.  Nicole
Kiddman has also stated that she would welcome the opportunity to do another
one.
     The only problem I can see is a villain shortage.  Right quick they
are going to run out of "recognizable" villains for Batman to fight.  All the
villains who became "name recognizable" by way of the 60's TV show (the
Joker, Penguin, Riddler, Catwoman) have been done (and most have been killed
off in the movies).  So, that leaves the other names in the Rogues Gallery,
the ones that Batman fans like myself have no problems recognizing, but
that non-comic-readers who like the Batman films don't know from Adam.
     Still, I have some ideas.  I've long since retired the original wish
list I posted oh so many years ago, but Dustin Hoffman as The Mad Hatter,
Helena Bonham Carter as Poison Ivy, Alan Rickman as Maxie Zeus, Wesley Snipes
as the Black Spider, Lance Henrikson as Ra's Al Ghul, Michael Biehn as
Deadshot, and Patrick Stewart as Mister Zero would all do as villains.
Also, I think John Goodman would do well as The Ventriloquist.

     Jack Butler



... "Was that over the top?  I can never tell..." -- The Riddler
--- FMail 0.98a
 * Origin: Forethought BBS -=- Orlando FL -=- 407-277-7530 (1:363/309)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 272 of 322
 From : Jack Butler                         1:363/309       .cê 18 .þí 95 06:45
 To   : All
 Subj : Batman Forever Review
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
     I may, or may not, discuss spoiler material in this review.  As I
have only thought about things to talk about and not actually written the
thing out, I can't tell yet.  If you haven't seen it, and don't want to take
the chance, now is the time to move on to the next message.
     Everybody else, the elevator is going down.























     Well, the first thing that comes to mind when I think of this movie is
Good Stuff.  I'm still a fan of the original (less so the second), but this
is the film the first one should have been.  More action, less moping.  Now,
I know a lot of you are going to say things like "that wasn't moping, that
was character development".  Bull.  That was moping.  I'm a writer; I know
what character development smells like, and that just wasn't it, back in
the first film.
     Not that they do too much character development in the third film... <G>
But still, it felt good.  Finally we see a Batman who is Billy-Badass on
the hand-to-hand arena, just like he is supposed to be.  This Batman uses
his head for more than a target, too.  Not that Burton's Batman was written
as an idiot, but we get to *see* him using his noodle in this one.
     So, action... great.  Character usage... great... except for Dick
Grayson/Robin.  Granted, he only comes in half-way through the film, and
isn't the star of the show anyway, but geez, guys.  He pops in and out like
a piece of bread in a toaster oven.  Either decide to use him or *don't*.
One thing I am glad they did with Robin was let him be more than "the Boy
Hostage"... not that he doesn't get used as one, anyway.  <G>  But when
Two-Face pops up, says something smart (what was it... oh yeah... "Looking
for us?") and Robin immediately beats the hell out of him, I cheered.  And
so did a lot of others.
     Tommy Lee Jones does a really great job as Two-Face.  He actually stands
up to Jim Carrey as the Riddler.  The aura of boiling insanity covered by
a thin veneer of absolute psychosis works well.  (I loved that one scene
during the attack on Wayne Manor... Two-Face flipping the coin, over and
over, exasperated because it keeps coming up heads.)
     Carrey does a good job, but I had a slight problem with his character.
Does it seem to anyone else that he played the Riddler in some other movie?
I dunno... but his Riddler, as written, seems awefully similar to several
other characters he's played in the past.  Frenetic, not all there, and
absolutely intent on pulling some of the wierdest bodily contortions
possible.   Wait, I recognize it now.  Carrey's stand-up act.  Anyway, I
still liked what he did with the character; just as obsessive as Bruce Wayne,
but in an entirely different manner about an entirely different subject.
     Let's see, what else.  Can we say "choppy editing", boys and girls?
One second, Batman is rescuing Dick from being turned into dog food by a
street gang, the next he's walking away from Dick in the Batcave.  Oops!
     One last thing:  what the heck is up with this "kill the supervillain"
nonsense!  First, the Joker, then the Penguin, then Two-Face!  Hello, McFly!
Ever consider that you may want to bring one or two of them back for a
sequel?

     Well, those are all the comments I have.  See the movie if you haven't.
See it again if you have.  This one, more than the other two, was a comic
book on film.

     Jack Butler



... "Riddle me this, riddle me that.  Who's afraid of the big black bat?"
--- FMail 0.98a
 * Origin: Forethought BBS -=- Orlando FL -=- 407-277-7530 (1:363/309)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 273 of 322
 From : Gary Tincher                        1:372/57        .cê 18 .þí 95 09:34
 To   : Jason Cathcart
 Subj : MMPR : The Movie
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 -=> Quoting Jason Cathcart to All <=-

 JC> @MSGID: 1:134/134.0 2fe1b63c
 JC> Any one else think that it will be totally crappy?

I'm not a fan but from what I saw on TV.. it looks as if they got
a buget this time<G>.

                                Gary



... Catch the Blue Wave!
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

--- QScan/PCB v1.17b / 01-0389
 * Origin: Dazed & Confused BBS - 8 Nodes/24 CD's - 803-873-5797 (1:372/57)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 274 of 322
 From : Gary Tincher                        1:372/57        .cê 18 .þí 95 09:34
 To   : Bruce Baugh
 Subj : Roger Zelazny, 1937-1995
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Yea, I'll miss him too.. loved the amber series..

Did you read his Delvish the Damned series?


                                Gary


... Catch the Blue Wave!
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

--- QScan/PCB v1.17b / 01-0389
 * Origin: Dazed & Confused BBS - 8 Nodes/24 CD's - 803-873-5797 (1:372/57)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 275 of 322
 From : Cameron Macdonald                   1:229/436       .cê 18 .þí 95 09:59
 To   : Daniel Renaud
 Subj : Re: X-Files
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On Thu 15-Jun-1995 23:38 , Daniel Renaud wrote:

DR> Hi everybody,
DR>              I'm looking for the complete first 2 seasons of X-files.  So
DR> does anyone have them and be willing to copy them for me.
DR> I'm from Hull, Quebec  Canada (near Ottawa), but would be willing to paid
DR> for postage if I have to get the tapes from someone out of town/country.
DR> Thanks

I have just about every one of them on tape...  I live just a bit east of
Toronto.  Let me double check what I have here again...

Cameron...
--- CNet/3
 * Origin: Daily Planet BBS   10 Lines o' Fun   (905)436-6509 (1:229/436)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 276 of 322
 From : Bruce Baugh                         1:105/290.50    .cê 18 .þí 95 10:48
 To   : All
 Subj : Wormholes in Reality?
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On (16 Jun 95) David Johnston wrote to Rumble...

 DJ> No--he--hasn't! If we had a workable FTL theory that would be
 DJ> the biggest news since the atomic bomb. Oh, I suppose you
 DJ> could explain transporters as a macrocosmic extension of
 DJ> quantum tunneling, but just because Hawking is a Star Trek
 DJ> fan doesn't mean that it is solidly, or even shakily related
 DJ> to our best understanding of the concepts of physics. He just
 DJ> does what everyone else does and suspends disbelief.

Just to blow your mind, check the following out from GEnie. And note
that Landis, Benford, and Cramer are all practicing physicists as
well as sf writers. This is their "day job", as it were.

First Science Fiction & Fantasy
 Category 27,  Topic 11
 Message 608       Thu Mar 30, 1995
 G.LANDIS1 [Geoffrey]         at 21:58 EST

The following press-release is from UC Irvine.

SEARCHING FOR A `SUBWAY TO THE STARS'

In an article published March 15, 1995 in the scientific journal Physical
Review, science fiction writers Gregory Benford, Geoffrey A. Landis, Robert L.
Forward and John G. Cramer, with co-authors Matt Visser and Michael Morris,
argue that the search for dark matter in the universe could be expanded to
include exotic forms of dark matter such as wormholes, topological connections
between separated regions of space-time that might be described as "subways to
the stars."

The article, "Natural Wormholes as Gravitational Lenses," explains one theory
underlying the possible existence of such objects and describes the
gravitational lensing "signature" that might enable us to detect them. The
proposal stems from a workshop on relativity and quantum mechanics sponsored
 by NASA.

"A 'wormhole' is a theoretical object permitted by Einstein's theory of
general relativity, where distant regions of space are connected by a
shortcut," says Landis, a scientist at NASA's Lewis Research Center in
Cleveland, OH, as well as an award-winning science-fiction author. "Such
wormholes could have been created in the distant past, in the time just
following the 'big bang' that created the universe.  What we discovered at the
workshop was that if such wormholes did exist, they could be detected by the
bending of light due to gravity, an effect known as the 'gravitational lens.'"

"Several research groups currently are using telescopes to monitor
gravitational lensing events to search for massive compact halo objects
(MACHOs) that have positive mass.  They want to count these objects because
they could explain the vast amount of dark matter in our galaxy, or perhaps
the whole universe," Benford explains.  Gregory Benford is a professor of
physics at the University of California Irvine, and also a highly-regarded
science fiction writer.

"So far, these experiments are not surprising anyone. They're turning up a
reasonable amount of possible dark matter, but nothing that's going to solve
the dark matter problem.  But we believe that by paying just a little more
attention, by analyzing the MACHO search data for evidence of what we like to
call GNACHOs (Gravitationally Negative Anomalous Compact Halo Objects),
there's a chance to make a really profound discovery."

Wormholes provide one possible way to create astronomical objects of negative
mass, according to theoretical calculations by Matt Visser, professor of
physics at Washington University in St. Louis, Mo., and a co- author of the
article. "Wormholes, although allowed by the theory of relativity, are
theoretically unstable," says Landis.  "However, at the time of the formation
of the universe in the big-bang, wormholes could have been stabilized by loops
of negative mass cosmic string.  If so, they would still be here, and it is be
worthwhile to look for them.  If we find one, the implications are enormous."

"According to theory, either end of a wormhole can swallow mass, ejecting it
out the other end," said Benford.  "But a wormhole mouth in a dense region of
matter swallows mass faster than its other end, if that end is in a sparse
region.  Mass emerging from an end curves space-time oppositely. it's as
though the end loses mass, finally reducing to zero mass and then to negative.
Gravitationally, that negative end looks like a negative mass, maybe even a
large, stable one."

Expanding the current Optical Gravitation Lensing Experiment (OGLE) a
collaborative project between the Warsaw University Observatory, Carnegie
Observatory and Princeton University Observatory to search for these and other
possible negative mass objects would be relatively simple, said Benford.  This
is because GNACHOs, if they exist, provide a distinctive light enhancement
profile when passing between us and distant stars.  This resembles the
twinkling of starlight in the Earth's atmosphere.

"Ordinary mass causes the sudden brightening of a star image, exerting a
gravitational refraction on the light, like a focusing lens," said Benford.
"Ordinary mass causes a single peak in brightness because it focuses the
light, but negative matter deflects the light rays, creating a shadowed umbra
region where light from the source is extinguished.  At the edges of the umbra
the light rays accumulate to form what's called a caustic, giving a very large
increase in light intensity in two visible peaks of brightness."

All but one of the microlensing events observed by the OGLE project thus far
exhibited the single brightness peak associated with ordinary matter. However,
one event, OGLE #7, has exhibited very unusual light variations.

"So far this event which shows a double hump brightness peak has been
attributed to a binary star, which are common," said Benford.

"While it very well may be a binary star, the double peak also is similar to
the signature we've predicted for a GNACHO.  Therefore, I don't think we
should just assume it's got to be binary and brush it off.  If we look in
greater detail, we just might find that it's an entirely different object."

What would it mean if we were to discover a wormhole?

"A wormhole is like a subway to the stars; a method of going places that are
spatially very distant instantaneously, and without contradicting the theory
of relativity.  You go in one end and you pop out somewhere else in the
galaxy, or maybe in another galaxy," said Benford.

"Finding one would completely change our view of how galaxies form, because it
would mean that wormhole transport of mass from one part of the universe to
another has been a significant evolutionary factor.  It would mean that space-
time is intimately connected in a way we didn't know; that the whole universe
is knitted together and that's a profound result."

But whether or not we find a wormhole, it's the search that's important, said
Benford.

"The chances of negative mass wormholes being common are slim and nobody's
going to get funded to go out and look for wormholes but the chance to find
one as a bonus with data from existing dark matter experiments is enticing,"
he said.

"Our goal is to say `Let's see if we can make an observation.'  Because there
are still lots of mysteries in the universe, and we shouldn't take for granted
that we know what's in it."

=====

Thus indeed do many things come to pass...


... Don't tell me you're nervous about a little ritual purification?

--- PPoint 1.92
 * Origin: The Home Trepanning Club (1:105/290.50)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 277 of 322
 From : Jack Butler                         1:363/309       .cê 18 .þí 95 16:58
 To   : J Hulley-Miller
 Subj : Highlander Scedule
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 Quoth J Hulley-Miller, "Nevermore".

 JH> I'm still incredibly annoyed about this, if they dont finally reveal
 JH> Clark's identity to Lois... :(

     They will.  She's known in the comic book for a couple of years now.
Its about time they do so on the television show, I think.

     Jack Butler



... "The less time I have to spend with real attorneys, the better."
--- FMail 0.98a
 * Origin: Forethought BBS -=- Orlando FL -=- 407-277-7530 (1:363/309)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 278 of 322
 From : Jack Butler                         1:363/309       .cê 18 .þí 95 17:16
 To   : David Little
 Subj : Star Wars
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 Quoth David Little, "Nevermore".

 DL> Sherman, set the wayback machine for 1977.

 DL> If you CAN remember, there were several times rumors abounded
 DL> about Star Trek making a comeback. They tried, fell apart.

     I remember all the hoopla about "Trek Phase II", and I was as skeptical
then as I am now.


 DL> Will he back down? NO!! It would be a PR nightmare for
 DL> LucasFilm if he did that. The reputation of the afforementioned
 DL> companies would go down the tubes. Why would he lie about something
 DL> like this when it would cost him everything?

     I disagree.  Lucas could very easily simply shut up about future Star
Wars films and the hullabaloo would die out.  Quietly, slowly, but it would
die.  And no one would ever say a thing.
     Why should they?  Its been 20 years (nearly, anyway) since the original
film.  There is an entire generation of science fiction fans to whom Star
Wars was *not* a "sudden phenomenon".  Give you a good example of what I
mean:  I played Star Wars for my nephew Bradley (who is 15 and hadn't seen
any of the Star Wars films).  His reaction:  "Pretty neat, but the effects
could have been better..."
     *These* kids are soon going to be the primary market target for science
fiction.  They have no earthly idea of what Star Wars is, or meant to *us*
in terms of being science fiction fans.

     Jack Butler



... "There's an interesting Chinese curse..." -- Kim
--- FMail 0.98a
 * Origin: Forethought BBS -=- Orlando FL -=- 407-277-7530 (1:363/309)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 279 of 322
 From : Jack Butler                         1:363/309       .cê 18 .þí 95 17:32
 To   : Brian Henderson
 Subj : B5 Ripoff: Ds9
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 Quoth Brian Henderson, "Nevermore".

 BH> Trekkies don't support anything that isn't Trek, so Paramount can
 BH> either  produce the Star Trek Network, or try producing something that
 BH> people  want to watch.  Any bets on which one they'll try first?

     What a typically arrogant, Brian-Hendersonian thing to say.  And what,
pray tell, about the thousands of "Trekkies" (your word) who are supporting
your precious object of worship by watching *it* also?

     Jack Butler



... "You're obsessed with this thing, aren't you?" -- Dr. McCoy
... "I don't think you're quite ready for the asylum yet." -- Dr. Franklin
--- FMail 0.98a
 * Origin: Forethought BBS -=- Orlando FL -=- 407-277-7530 (1:363/309)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 280 of 322
 From : Jack Butler                         1:363/309       .cê 18 .þí 95 17:35
 To   : Brian Henderson
 Subj : B5 Ripoff: Ds9
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 Quoth Brian Henderson, "Nevermore".

 BH> I watched the new DS9 last night that had Sisko, Kira, Dax and Bashir
 BH> going back in time.  What a  waste of an hour! Come on, a brain-damaged
 BH> chimpanzee could write a  better episode.

     Well, since *presumably* you are more intelligent that a brain-damaged
chimpanzee, let's see you write a better Trek episode.

     Jack Butler



... "The Death Star will be in range in 5 minutes."
--- FMail 0.98a
 * Origin: Forethought BBS -=- Orlando FL -=- 407-277-7530 (1:363/309)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 281 of 322
 From : Frank Glover                        1:2613/477      .cê 18 .þí 95 17:37
 To   : David Johnston
 Subj : Re: St: The Next Generati
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

DJ>  -> Agreed. For one, control of the aging process will come *well*
DJ>  -> before that, and possibly in time for some of us today.
DJ>
DJ>  It isn't that easy to beat entropy.  We might have immortality in 400
DJ>  years, but it wouldn't be by totally stopping the aging process of
DJ>  the
DJ>  human body.  That would take a lot longer to master.  Then again, so
DJ>  will FTL travel.

   I'd have to disagree. Life in general is a battle against entropy, one merely
(!) has to intervene in ways that give us a better chance. It'll still require
energy from all the usual biological sources, just making better use of it than
nature does by herself. It'll happen more or less early in the next century (and
not an all-at-once breakthrough, just a number of advances that attack all the
different changes, the sum total of which we call aging.

   As for FTL travel, I feel in my gut it'll happen, and there's some very weak
evidence to support me, but since it requires the universe to work in ways that
we don't know for sure (and may not at all) I'd have to assign a big fat
question mark as to when that might happen. Anywhere between next week, and the
end (whatever that may be) of the universe....

   Frank


--- QuickBBS 2.80 GoldBase (Zeta-1)
 * Origin: The Matrix Data Bank BBS, Rochester, Ny (1:2613/477)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 282 of 322
 From : Frank Glover                        1:2613/477      .cê 18 .þí 95 18:14
 To   : Mark Jones
 Subj : Re: ST: The Next Generation
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

MJ>     And would you *really* bet serious money that Paramount doesn't
MJ>  someday cast a *new* set of actors for the further adventures of
MJ>  Kirk,
MJ>  Spock, Scotty and Co.?
MJ>     I wouldn't.  Paramount would do it in a hearbeat if they thought
MJ>  they could make money at it.  And while many fans would accuse them
MJ>  of
MJ>  heresy and apostasy and all sorts of other crimes against
MJ>  nature...that happened with ST:TNG too.  But it was still a big

   But that's just it. I think Paramount knows full well that the characters are
so closely associated with the actors, that any attempt to pass someone else off
would *not* be well met, and that does indeed translate into money if it keeps
enough people out of theaters. Trek fans won't like it, others will be merely
confused.

   Even on TV they don't usually (outside of soaps) put a new actor in an
existing role. We even joke about the old Darrin vs. the new Darrin of
Bewitched. (The Rosanne episode that introduced Sarah [geeze, forgot her last
name!] in place of Lecy Goranson as Becky did in jokes at the end about this.

   The only exception would be if you did stories about the youthful experiences
of these characters (say, a movie version of the trek novel `Best Destiny'), as
has successfully been done with Indiana Jones. (*also* a Paramount property)

   Frank


--- QuickBBS 2.80 GoldBase (Zeta-1)
 * Origin: The Matrix Data Bank BBS, Rochester, Ny (1:2613/477)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 283 of 322
 From : David Mohorn                        1:275/102       .cê 18 .þí 95 19:39
 To   : Louis Keser
 Subj : Re: Highlander, The Movie
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
LK>PC> thank god Connor McLeod is the lead, and not Duncan - that's something t
  >PC> confused me at first. I just assumed they got another actor for the seri
  >PC> (and was I glad, I like Adrian Paul much better than Christopher Lambert
  >PC> although I do have to admit he (Lambert) grows on me.

LK>    I disagree, the show is more confussing than the movies ever were.  And
  >Connor is better than Duncan.  The movies are relatively simple, if you
  >exclude the second one as the third does.  As close as I could figure out
  >Connor=Duncan.  I guessed they changed the name when it became a series.  If
  >you saw the first movie, Connor has had alot of ID (ex. Russel Nash).

If you would have watched the series pilot, you would have seen Connor
McCleod.  He has also appeared in another episode too.

...david

---
 þ QMPro 1.53 þ C++ programmers are classy.
 * Origin: SelectiveSourceVirginiaBeach,VA 804 471 6776 (1:275/102) (1:275/102)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 284 of 322
 From : Nick Lawrus                         1:369/121       .îí 19 .þí 95 11:38
 To   : Bruce Baugh
 Subj : Roger Zelazny, 1937-1
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12  [Eval]

 BB> According to George R.R. Martin on GEnie this afternoon, Roger
 BB> Zelazny died today of liver failure, the result of an extended bout
 BB> with cancer. This was apparently not the first time he'd been close
 BB> to death.

 BB> Zelazny wrote his fair share of schlock - I doubt I'll ever forget
 BB> Corwin's heart leaping within him in "an almost Proustian joy" in
 BB> one of the Amber books. But at his best, he was more or less the
 BB> definitive Sense Of Wonder artist. Certainly his influence is large
 BB> and real, and he'll be missed.

WOW!!  That's a stunner......

I read the Amber books as a kid and loved them.  Then I read some of his
more mature works and loved them.....

Then hated some of his juvenile crappy stuff.....

But I'll miss his meter and I agree with the Sense of Wonder statement.
He was one writer who had a sense of poetic prose.....

Cheers--Nick

___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12
 * Origin: The Data Center BBS  (1:369/121.0)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 285 of 322
 From : Tony Trujillo                       1:280/9         .îí 19 .þí 95 13:00
 To   : Robert Lidgren
 Subj : Re: OLD YELLOW EYES/WHERE CAN
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE 1.11+

 RL> By the way, I have a copy of Wiiliam Shatner's record from years ago.
 RL> It's a real hoot and includes his "classic" rendition of "Rocketman."

Dear lord, don't tell me he did a cover of the old Elton
John tune!

Eeeks!



... "We are all powerful!!  We are SERVOCROWATION!!"
--- Via Silver Xpress V4.02B03 SW01177
 * Origin: South of the River - Overland Park KS - (913)642-7907 V.* (1:280/9)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 286 of 322
 From : Bill Hedrick                        1:282/26        .îí 19 .þí 95 15:31
 To   : Brian Henderson
 Subj : B5 Ripoff: Ds9
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
In a message dated 06-08-95 BRIAN HENDERSON wrote to RICHARD YAMAGATA:

 BH> Trekkies don't support anything that isn't Trek, so Paramount can

hmmm excuse me if this seems taken out of context, but I consider myself a
Trekkie, and I love B5, X-Files, enjoy L&C and have a broad range of
enjoyments in SF as well as real-life <gasp>. Perhaps your view of what a
'trekkie' is is more limited than that of mine? BTW, I am a member of 2 Trek
fan clubs and with few exceptions the members have at least as broad  tastes
as I do. Many of them can also read <g>

Ciao,
  BILL

 -> Alice4Mac 2.5d3 E QWK Eval:27Dec94

--- RA 1.11+/GEcho 1.02+
 * Origin: Sci-Fi BBS * Rosemount, MN * HST/DS * (612)423-7358 (1:282/26)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 287 of 322
 From : Marc Zingarelli                     1:226/110       .îí 19 .þí 95 16:36
 To   : Jack Butler
 Subj : Kilmer as Batman
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12  92-0004
Jack Butler was overheard talking to All,
about Kilmer as Batman, in "Joe's Place" and said:

JB>     Warner Brothers has already announced that both Val Kilmer and Chris
JB>O'Donnell have signed to make further Batman films after this one.  Nicole
JB>Kiddman has also stated that she would welcome the opportunity to do another
JB>one.
JB>     The only problem I can see is a villain shortage.  Right quick they
JB>are going to run out of "recognizable" villains for Batman to fight.  All th
JB>villains who became "name recognizable" by way of the 60's TV show (the

But you forgot Mr Freeze?  And the rest of the motley cast.  I do like your
suggestions by the way.  Or how about a remake of the original batman movie
where all the villains got together?

Later

Marc


---
 LT MARC ZINGARELLI
 Circleville Fire Department
 Local 1232
 Internet:  marc.zingarelli@tcr.com


 * OLX 1.52 * 9 out of 10 men who tried camels went back to women.

--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12
 * Origin: The Computer Room-Pickerington, Oh (614)861-8377  (1:226/110.0)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 288 of 322
 From : ROBERT LIDGREN                      1:134/10        .îí 19 .þí 95 23:00
 To   : STEVE WISER
 Subj : H20 WRLD=THUNDERDOME+H2O
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Good one!

And besides that, it would have a tough time being a better picture.  The
second and third Mad Max films were much more than just blood-fests.
--- PCBoard 15.2
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Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 289 of 322
 From : ROBERT LIDGREN                      1:134/10        .îí 19 .þí 95 23:05
 To   : JACK BUTLER
 Subj : B5 RIPOFF: DS9
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
-> Quoth Brian Henderson, "Nevermore".
-> BH> Trekkies don't support anything that isn't Trek, so Paramount can BH>
-> either  produce the Star Trek Network, or try producing something that BH>
-> people  want to watch.  Any bets on which one they'll try first?
->    What a typically arrogant, Brian-Hendersonian thing to say.  And what,
-> pray tell, about the thousands of "Trekkies" (your word) who are supporting
-> your precious object of worship by watching *it* also?
->
->    Jack Butler

Well done Jack!  It's fine to criticize ..Trek.  However, when anyone
stereotypes hundreds of thousands like this it demonstrates a certain lack of
analysis and common sense.  The idea that "Trekkies" (cute but pretty useless
term) only support Star Trek incarnations flies in the face of the barest
rudiments of logic.
--- PCBoard 15.2
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Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 290 of 322
 From : ROBERT LIDGREN                      1:134/10        .îí 19 .þí 95 23:08
 To   : JACK BUTLER
 Subj : KILMER AS BATMAN
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
->    Still, I have some ideas.  I've long since retired the original wish
-> list I posted oh so many years ago, but Dustin Hoffman as The Mad Hatter,
-> Helena Bonham Carter as Poison Ivy, Alan Rickman as Maxie Zeus, Wesley
-> Snipes as the Black Spider, Lance Henrikson as Ra's Al Ghul, Michael Biehn
-> as Deadshot, and Patrick Stewart as Mister Zero would all do as villains.
-> Also, I think John Goodman would do well as The Ventriloquist.

Gee, what a good list.  Now, is there a spot for Letterman and Keanu Reeves
somewhere in here?
--- PCBoard 15.2
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Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 291 of 322
 From : ROBERT LIDGREN                      1:134/10        .îí 19 .þí 95 23:12
 To   : JACK BUTLER
 Subj : CROSSPOST
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
->    From:  Use-White Wolf
->    By:  David Johnston <david.johnston@freddy.com>
->    Subject:  Project Twilight
->
->    There was indeed talk of having Darren McGavin come on, *in character*,
-> and meet Mulder.  However, apparently they're having problems with names,
-> etc.  Somebody owns the copyright on Carl Kolchak and unless they can deal
-> with that person or group, they can't use him on X-Files.
->
->    ************************************************************
->
->    Anybody out there hear anything about this?  Is this rumor for real?
-> If so, I think the idea is too cool for school, myself.  I've always been a
-> Kolchak fan...

For a really weird and wonderful addition, how about Agent Cooper from Twin
Peaks making an appearance?  Two FBI agents investigating the "strange.?"

Could Scully stomach that?
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 Msg  : 292 of 322
 From : ROBERT LIDGREN                      1:134/10        .îí 19 .þí 95 23:15
 To   : JACK BUTLER
 Subj : CROSSPOST
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
->    Methos:  not much to say here except for a guy that has lived thousands
-> of years he can do some rather doofy things.  The doofy things that Methos
-> does could be excused if he were Richie.
->
->    That watcher, I can't remember his name starts with a V?, you know who,
-> the black guy who decked Dawson.  What a moron.  He is driving toward Kallas
-> and shooting at him, knowing that he is an immortal.  He finally gets Kallas
-> on the ground, DROPS HIS GUN, gets out of the car, looks at Kallas laying on
-> the ground and thinks "I need something sharp" and IGNORES THE SWORD next to
-> Kallas.  Duh there is an ax behind me I will go get it!  His stupidity has
-> already killed him nuffsaid.
->
->    Well here is another goodun':  Let's see, if I were part of a secret
-> society like the Watchers and created a database, I think I might just
-> require a PASSWORD.  And don't tell me they would not know how!  That
-> database was more than just a few linked tables, it looked pretty good. And
-> don't say access, you still would need more than just a do it yourself book
-> and a clue.
->
->    ***************************************
->
->    There wasn't a name on this... just a INet ID which contained no part
-> of the poster's name.
->
->    Jack Butler

These cross-posts are very interesting.  Thanks for sharing them with us!!
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 Msg  : 293 of 322
 From : ROBERT LIDGREN                      1:134/10        .îí 19 .þí 95 23:17
 To   : MYRA I FOX
 Subj : OLD YELLOW EYES/WHERE CAN
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
-> RL>Can anyone tell me of a source for the recording Brett Spiner (DATA)
-> RL>did called "OLD YELLOW EYES?"  Apparently it is a collection of songs
-> I have seen it in Star Tech's catalog... PO Box 456
->                                        Dunlap TN 37327

Thanks Myra!  I had a hunch this info. might be "out there" somewhere.

cheers-
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 Msg  : 294 of 322
 From : Mark Jones                          1:105/302.47    .pä 14 .þí 95 23:40
 To   : Jeff Hancock
 Subj : Sliders - Bathroom? Wash
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On (10 Jun 95) Jeff Hancock wrote to Mark Jones...

 MJ> Yeah! Like space-dock sized replicators powered by a ring of
 MJ> matter-antimatter reactors. Build a starship, get it fully
 MJ> equipped, fully provisioned, fully crewed. Slide it into the
 MJ> replicator dock and scan it. File the data away.
 JH>
 JH> And how are the crewmember's families going to deal with having dozens
 JH> of duplicate relatives?  There goes security shot straight to
 JH> hell.

It's better than having *dead* relatives, eh?  But if that's a
consideration, you could use volunteers who have no families.  In a
culture the size of the Federation, that shouldn't be too
tough--remember, you only need enough such "orphans" to crew *one*
ship....

Even better, though--staff the ship with Klingons.  Their loved one
would probably think it was just KEEN than Uncle ArgleBargle is the
captain of a *score* of warships!  (And would be pleased as punch to
know that he'd get the chance to die a warrior's death not once--but
countless times!)

 JH> Besides which, if they can't replicate a lung, how do they replicate
 JH> people? ;)

Well...that's the point, really.  Given the transporter and the
replicator (which are apparently two different versions of the same
basic technology), they *should* be able to replicate not just lungs,
but whole persons.  Which means, they'd have immortality of a sort.
It wouldn't matter how many times you killed Wesley Crusher, until and
unless you tracked down and destroyed *every* single copy of his
transporter trace, he'd pop up again.

But they don't want to deal with that, so The Powers That Be decreed
that it can't be done.  I, on the other hand, find the whole notion
fascinating and would love to see someone run with it.

 MJ> When the Borg come calling, send them a message: "Crunch all you
 MJ> want. We'll make more!" Turn out starships as fast as you can
 MJ> cycle them through the airlock!
 JH>
 JH> Somehow this strikes me as having as much effect as raindrops hitting
 JH> the sidewalk.

Perhaps.  But then again, perhaps *enough* ships could have stopped
the Borg.  Or convinced them that the Federation was a prize not worth
the effort.  Or, the very least, kept them busy long enough for the
Federation to come up with something that *would* stop the Borg.
(After all, why settle for just *one* Einstein when you can replicate
him wholesale and get lifetimes of productive thought in just a year
or two?)

 JH>  * Crazy-J * "I feel your pain"? Nah, more like "I feel you're paying"

All too true....

... "He was starting to annoy me, so I gave him another try at reincarnation."

--- PPoint 1.78
 * Origin: HQ of World Domination, Inc. (1:105/302.47)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 295 of 322
 From : David Johnston                      1:342/14        .ÿò 16 .þí 95 01:18
 To   : Mark Jones
 Subj : St: The Next Generation
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
-> And would you *really* bet serious money that Paramount doesn't
-> someday cast a *new* set of actors for the further adventures of
-> Kirk, Spock, Scotty and Co.?

Depends on the time limit.  Kirk would be a problem though, since
Shatner wasn't a character actor, and anyone imitating his distinctive
style would seem odd at best and probably laughable.

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Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 296 of 322
 From : David Johnston                      1:342/14        .ÿò 16 .þí 95 01:24
 To   : Frank Glover
 Subj : Re: St: The Next Generati
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
-> MJ>  Well, since I think 24th century medicine should be vastly more
-> MJ>  effective than it appears to be, I'm willing to let them slide
-> on MJ>  that
-> MJ>  one.  (But they're good questions nonetheless.)
->
-> Agreed. For one, control of the aging process will come *well*
-> before that, and possibly in time for some of us today.

It isn't that easy to beat entropy.  We might have immortality in 400
years, but it wouldn't be by totally stopping the aging process of the
human body.  That would take a lot longer to master.  Then again, so
will FTL travel.

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Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 297 of 322
 From : David Johnston                      1:342/14        .ÿò 16 .þí 95 01:30
 To   : Rumble
 Subj : B5 Vs St              1/2
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
-> Heh! What about Steven Hawkings making science understandable!? He is
-> considere to be the smartest man who ever lived, and he preferes Trek
-> to B5. He has found

How do you know?  Yes, he's a big trek fan but I haven't heard anything
about his opinion of B5.

-> out how lots of things on Trek shows could work like phasers, warp
-> drive and transporters to name a few.

No--he--hasn't!  If we had a workable FTL theory that would be the
biggest news since the atomic bomb.  Oh, I suppose you could explain
transporters as a macrocosmic extension of quantum tunneling, but just
because Hawking is a Star Trek fan doesn't mean that it is solidly, or
even shakily related to our best understanding of the concepts of
physics.  He just does what everyone else does and suspends disbelief.

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Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 298 of 322
 From : David Johnston                      1:342/14        .ÿò 16 .þí 95 01:35
 To   : Frank Eva
 Subj : Star Trek
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
-> The examples you gave both deal with militarism. Have you ever
-> thought that Gene Roddenberry may not have wanted his concept to be
-> associated with war-mongering? So, this may not be a matter of the
-> 'universe never

If he didn't want his concept associated with war-mongering, he
shouldn't have put the Klingons in there.  For that matter, he probably
should have set his series on a little unarmed exploratory ship as
opposed to a big battle wagon.

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Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 299 of 322
 From : Tom Huber                           1:115/477       .åò 15 .þí 95 23:11
 To   : Tony Limbert
 Subj : ENEMY MINE
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.11  94-0102

TL>You can find a copy of the story in the anthology "REEL FUTURES", along
  >with the original stories for [digging book up] ...

Thanks for this information. I'll look for the book.

Tom

--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.11
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Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 300 of 322
 From : Tom Huber                           1:115/477       .åò 15 .þí 95 23:16
 To   : Robert Lidgren
 Subj : HUBER WRITES
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.11  94-0102

RL>By the way, in the quote above, you refer to "my series."  Are you an author
  >Pardon me if I've missed your work.  Please fill me in if you do write books
  >stories, or articles.  I'd be keen to read more of your work!

The novel(s) are unpublished as of yet, but several short stories have
appeared in electronic publications, and I know one or two escaped to
the internet (with my permission). I've been busy of late with a move,
an addition to our household, and work, so I haven't done a lot to get
the novel or shorts into mainstream SF magazines and books.

The first novel is finished, but I'm thinking I want to make another
pass (no no! don't do that, just publish the d**n thing!). The second
novel is almost complete (roughly 95% written), and the rest of the
series has the links and major continuations already written within
their plotlines.

Unlike what Frank Herbert did with Dune, I've plotted out the entire
Star Spawn series, and have written the beginning and ending of each
novel, plus major sequences that used characters or events from a
previous book. Each story stands by itself, but the entire series is a
lot like Babylon 5 - there is a much larger plot that involves all the
stories.

Some of my readers have been so bold as to tell me that the stories are
equal to that which is being published today. I'm not sure if I fully
agree, since I think I've got a ways to go before I feel comfortable
with that kind of comparison. Now if I end up with a Hugo, I might feel
differently... <grin>

The best,
Tom

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Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 301 of 322
 From : Dan Kachoogian                      1:107/953       .ÿò 16 .þí 95 21:59
 To   : James Walton
 Subj : Re: Garden State Science Fiction Conspiracy Update
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
*** Quoting James Walton to Dan Kachoogian ***

JW> Not a literary group?  Gasp!  ;-)
JW> In our group we have people we belong to other groups which are
JW> not strictly literary.  The library setting is just cheaper and
JW> easier.
JW> Quite a few of our meetings resemble indoor picnics.  We
JW> sometimes even remember to discuss the months topic!
JW>
JW> Do you people have a monthly newsletter or fanzine?

At the moment, no. However, I have been sending out updates to people who have
expressed interest. Mostly to try and bring in some more people... Those who
have, thus far, been (cowardly, I mean UNABLE) to attend our meetings.

:-)

If you'd like to be on my list of people who receive updates, lemme know.

                                                       -Dan

---
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 Msg  : 302 of 322
 From : Tony Trujillo                       1:280/9         .óá 17 .þí 95 14:42
 To   : K.c. Jones
 Subj : Re: Sliders Continuity
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE 1.11+

 TT>> replacement OR by another network. I'm not counting SLIDERS
 TT>> out yet but I'm crossing my fingers that it will slide back
 TT>> onto television in the future.
 KJ>  Let's all hope that it will. It would be really rotten if the network
 KJ>  left us with the cliffhanger unresolved.

Well, I don't really think they could lose Mallory and
thought I would have been more concerned with the ending
if Wade had been shot.


... Diplomacy: Saying "nice doggy"...until you find a rock.
--- Via Silver Xpress V4.02B03 SW01177
 * Origin: South of the River - Overland Park KS - (913)642-7907 V.* (1:280/9)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 303 of 322
 From : Michael Lynn                        1:393/7         .óá 17 .þí 95 07:41
 To   : Bruce Baugh
 Subj : Re: Roger Zelazny, 1937-1995
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
        Damn, Zelazny and Stephen R. Donaldson are my two favorite authors, what
a real shame.
--- CNet/3
 * Origin: The Bard's Tavern Denton, TX (817)243-5110 USR 28.8   (1:393/7)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 304 of 322
 From : Jack Butler                         1:363/309       .ÿò 16 .þí 95 12:00
 To   : Rumble
 Subj : B5 Ripoff: Ds9
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 Quoth Rumble, "Nevermore".

 Ru> I have heard that when B5 and DS9 do battle DS9 always wins in the
 Ru> rating game. I'm not surprised either.

     Means nothing.  "Most Popular" does not automatical equate with "Best".

     Jack Butler



... "I'm pleased you are enjoying yourself." -- Tuvok
--- FMail 0.98a
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Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 305 of 322
 From : Jack Butler                         1:363/309       .ÿò 16 .þí 95 12:09
 To   : Rumble
 Subj : BABYLON 5 (PTEN)
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 Quoth Rumble, "Nevermore".

 Ru> B5 almost got cancelled this year, so I would not call that good.

     Even if it had, this also means nothing.  Plenty of shows have been
cancelled despite the fact that they are excellent programs.  As I said in
my previous message to you, "most popular" does not equate with "best", and
all ratings indicate is popularity.
     If you need proof of this, I offer examples such as "American
Gladiators" and "Price is Right", both being shows geared toward the
country's lowest common denominator.  Both are doing very well in the
ratings.

     Jack Butler



... "It is greatness that comes from a mystery." -- Chiun
--- FMail 0.98a
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Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 306 of 322
 From : Jack Butler                         1:363/309       .ÿò 16 .þí 95 12:06
 To   : Frank Glover
 Subj : ST: The Next Generation
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 Quoth Frank Glover, "Nevermore".

 FG> But, since all we have to work with are 20th Century actors who
 FG> *do* age, I suppose one has to accept it for now. (Still, a 140 year
 FG> old Leonard McCoy suggests *some* advancement, though not much....)

     I was under the impression that Picard was somewhere in his 60's or
70's.  If so, this points to a lessening of the aging process.

     Jack Butler



... "Hello, Cousin Sven... Say something intelligent..." - Ren Hoek
--- FMail 0.98a
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Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 307 of 322
 From : Jack Butler                         1:363/309       .ÿò 16 .þí 95 14:49
 To   : Marc Zingarelli
 Subj : Highlander Novels
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 Quoth Marc Zingarelli, "Nevermore".

 JB> Okay, here's the scoop.  The first Highlander novel, "The Element of
 JB> Fire" by Jay Henders, will be out around October.  The second novel,
 JB> "Scimitar" by Ashley McConnell, will be released after that.

 MZ> Another thing to wait through a boring summer for!  Thanks for the
 MZ> info

     Denada.

     Jack Butler



... "And you were doing so well..." -- Doc Zimmerman
--- FMail 0.98a
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Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 308 of 322
 From : Kay Shapero                         1:102/524       .óá 17 .þí 95 09:46
 To   : Bruce Baugh
 Subj : What if
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Jun 15 11:10>, Bruce Baugh (1:105/290.50) wrote to Kay Shapero:

 BB>hurry up with the next book in the sort-of trilogy STEEL BEACH
 BB>begins. I heard him read the first chapter of it a couple years
 BB>ago - it's narrated by a member of an acting troupe touring the Oort
 BB>cloud facilities, and is, if anything, even funnier than the
 BB>first chapter of STEEL BEACH.

Another one?  Oh Goodie!!  :->

At least STEEL BEACH finally got me to get around to reading OPHIUCHI HOTLINE -
for some reason I had it but had never read it.  Silly me.

--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 309 of 322
 From : Steve Martin                        1:271/285       .óá 17 .þí 95 06:40
 To   : Christian Lacoste
 Subj : THE PRISONER
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Big Brother caught Christian Lacoste & J.T. Smith crimespeaking about
THE PRISONER.

 CL> Bonjour chez vous ! -- sorry, I don't know The Prisoner's ritual
 CL> welcome/goodbye sentence in english 'cause I saw the series in French.
 CL> Quite normal if you consider I *am* French.

"Be seeing you."  I don't know how "Bonjour chez vous" translates into
English, but it looks like "Good day (something)."  "Be seeing you"
carries a little bit of an implied threat that the Prisoner *will* be
sticking around...


... We French persons outwit you a second time...
--- Blue Wave/QBBS v2.12
 * Origin: From Trekkies & from B5ers who hate Trek save us! (1:271/285.0)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 310 of 322
 From : Phill Ash                           1:275/160       .óá 17 .þí 95 08:43
 To   : Kavin Kishor
 Subj : Xavier St. Cloud and the Quickening
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE 1.11+
 Phill Ash nasally exhaled his coffee upon hearing this:

>It's possible...
>Over the course of the past few seasons, we've seen some
>"fine-tuning" on Mac's reception of "the buzz" (I still prefer
>the term "Harkening"!).  Early on, he was aware of approaching
>Immortals, but now he can (more or less) identify their source
>direction.  Connor was able to identify those Immortals that
>he'd previously encountered, while the Kurgan was able to
>identify those whom he'd never met (by name!).

>Actually I nifty thing that the series has started doing is
>make each Immortals "harkening" have aparticular soundclip.  Methos has
>a an odd chanting to his buzz that lasts for a bit.  An the immortal
>whose master Duncan killed also had a different type of buzz than
>his mentor.

        I'd be interested to know if this was seen as "a neat idea" by
        the producers...or if they are trying to convey the
        "fine-tuning" idea...


ùANATúô:  Pres. PETSA (people for the ethical treatment of synthetic animals)
... An insane student learns strange lessons.
---
 * DeathMail (ver ü.1) *
~~~ ReneWave v1.00.wb2 (unregistered)
--- GEcho 1.11+
 * Origin: * The Beast's Lair * (804)425-1618 * Va Beach VA * (1:275/160)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 311 of 322
 From : Chris Baugh                         1:105/290.5     .óá 10 .þí 95 14:07
 To   : Jeff Ewart
 Subj : WorldCon in LA/96
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On (02 Jun 95) Jeff Ewart wrote to All...

 JE> I'm planning to going to LA for the '96 WorldCon and was wondering if
 JE> anybody had suggestions on what else to do while there

Try the TRAVEL echo!

... My computer has cables... so why can't it get HBO?

--- PPoint 1.92
 * Origin: "Bother," said Pooh (1:105/290.5)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 312 of 322
 From : Chris Baugh                         1:105/290.5     .óá 10 .þí 95 16:19
 To   : Ecarey
 Subj : ST: VOYAGER SURVIVES
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On (03 Jun 95) Ecarey wrote to Cmcdonough...

 E > Oh, that's too easy. Has anyone here not seen FORBIDDEN PLANET
 E > a hundred times?

I haven't seen it that many times!

... Kinescope - used for locating family or 'kin'.

--- PPoint 1.92
 * Origin: "Bother," said Pooh (1:105/290.5)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 313 of 322
 From : Chris Baugh                         1:105/290.5     .óá 10 .þí 95 16:33
 To   : Judy Hayes
 Subj : Paramount going Broke?
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On (08 Jun 95) Judy Hayes wrote to All...

 JH> Sheesh.....but they still managed to start their own
 JH> network.....talk about "Creative Accounting".....

For more about Creative Accounting than you can stand, look for the
book about Art Buchwald's suit concerning "Coming To America."  (I
don't recall the title or author's name, but it was written by
Buchwald's attorney.)

... "Hark! I must hasten after them, for I am their leader."

--- PPoint 1.92
 * Origin: "Bother," said Pooh (1:105/290.5)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 314 of 322
 From : Chris Baugh                         1:105/290.5     .óá 10 .þí 95 16:38
 To   : Mark Jones
 Subj : Counselor Troi
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On (03 Jun 95) Mark Jones wrote to Gamin Davis...

 MJ> I'll also agree that Starfleet has "security procedures". And
 MJ> I'll laugh even longer and louder if you argue that they are
 MJ> reasonable or effective.

Well, they do have security officers stationed on the bridge, and
the officers listen for the Captain's orders and start to carry them
out.  Of course, it would be more effective if they added a
procedure for *finishing* the actions commanded by the Captain.

... If you want to learn about paranoids, follow one around.

--- PPoint 1.92
 * Origin: "Bother," said Pooh (1:105/290.5)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 315 of 322
 From : Chris Baugh                         1:105/290.5     .óá 17 .þí 95 15:38
 To   : Jason Cathcart
 Subj : MMPR : The Movie
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On (16 Jun 95) Jason Cathcart wrote to All...

 JC> Any one else think that it will be totally crappy?

No, I don't believe that the voices of revenge are best carried to
the fields alone.

Oh, whoops, I thought you were talking about MMPI, the movie.

... Send Lawyers, Guns and Money!

--- PPoint 1.92
 * Origin: "Bother," said Pooh (1:105/290.5)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 316 of 322
 From : Chris Baugh                         1:105/290.5     .óá 17 .þí 95 15:49
 To   : Dkimmel
 Subj : BABYLON 5 (PTEN)
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On (12 Jun 95) Dkimmel wrote to Frank Eva...

 D > Among syndicated dramatic series, B5 ranked sixth for the season.

What were the top 5?

... I knew Pat Pending BEFORE he invented all that stuff

--- PPoint 1.92
 * Origin: "Bother," said Pooh (1:105/290.5)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 317 of 322
 From : Chris Baugh                         1:105/290.5     .óá 17 .þí 95 15:58
 To   : Seth Horne
 Subj : bABYLON5
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On (12 Jun 95) Seth Horne wrote to All...

 SH> Yo everyone...How exactly does the Jumpgate technology work, I
 SH> mean, doesn't it bend space or something? Also, did they every
 SH> describe the specification of those phat star furies?? They
 SH> said that B5 was only 5 miles long. The inside views, when you
 SH> look out their windows, look so unrealistic. And when you look
 SH> out at the whole view, it doesn't even look 2 miles long.
 SH> Shouldn't a station like that be important and big? And what is
 SH> that planet it is orbiting around?

You haven't been watching that long, have you?  Here's some
information to fill you in on the background of this fine series so
that you can enjoy it more.

Earlier episodes showed us that a jump point is a transition between
normal space and hyperspace.  When a ship enters the jump point, it
leaves normal space to enter hyperspace.  Once in hyperspace, it
travels a short distance to get to another jump point, that lets it
return to normal space.  Some large ships can create their own jump
points, while all smaller and less well equipped ships must rely on
gates - permanent installations in normal space providing access to
hyperspace.

This is quite different than Star Trek's version of a warp field,
which is indeed supposed to enable the ship to travel through normal
space at very high speed.  In Star Trek, although a ship at warm is
invisible to slower observors because, of course, the ship's going
faster than light, it is detectable, and identifiable by sensors.
In contrast, B5 indicates that human technology can identify the
presence and rough size (mass) of vehicles about to emerge from
hyperspace, but not that the ships can be identified unless they
send a message.  While we know that jump technology was provided to
humans by the Centauri, we don't know who originated it, nor if
other races have more sophisticated types of sensors.

The inside of the large sphere at the docking end of B5 is hollow,
with artificial lighting and hydroponic fields inside.  The
ambassadors and senior staff have some of the rare rooms with a
view into this area.  What, exactly, would you expect to see that
would "be more realistic" for the interior or would look "important
and big" on the exterior shots?  The views are all generated by
mathematical modeling, based on a complete description of the
station's design, of the field of view, perspective angles, and
lighting (including lens flares) that a camera would see if it was
there.  The look is different from the results of the miniature
animation routinely used in Star Trek, but B5 is probably more
accurate at depicting the interaction of spaceships, as the computer
system allows the creation of shots with no up or down, and with
camera moves throughout a range of several miles.  (In Trek, often
the dialogue says that ships are a reasonable distance apart, but
the models have to be shown as though they were right next to each
other because of space limitations in the miniature photography
process.)

As for the importance of the station, I'm not sure in what manner
you expect an important station to look different.  Would you have
preferred an elegantly terraced marble structure in the style of the
UN building?  Dialogue in the series has often emphasized the
importance of B5 to peaceful relations, diplomacy and trade, and the
government's refusal to adequately fund its very expensive
operations in the midst of growing isolationist sentiment at home.
In the opinion of many fans, B5 is to be commended for realistically
portraying socialogical and political problems in the implementation
of grand dreams, and for its theme that increasing technology and
alien contact do not necessarily, by themselves, change either human
nature or society for the better.  This is yet another contrast with
Trek, which of course is relentlessly optimistic that people can
work together to solve their problems and create a better society by
being part of idealistic organizations (like Starfleet).  Neither
approach is neccessarily better or worse, but there's certainly a
place for both types of themes in modern literature, and B5 may be
more relevant to today's concerns, in the same way Trek obviously
tapped 60's idealism.

The planet is in "neutral space" and is not supposed to be located
in our solar system.  This has also been explained in many of the
episodes.  The site survey team thought this was a dead planet; it
turned out to have some suprises, but is apparently not a threat.
This subject was detailed in full as it was the plot of an earlier
episode.

I haven't seen the word "phat" before.  These ships are not
described in "every" episode, but a great deal of information has
been provided about them in several of the shows.  They aren't
designed for use in atmosphere, because they don't have aerodynamic
features, but they're very efficient for space travel - and
highly maneuverable in combat, or for grappling - because the
thrusters at the tips of the wings can fire indepently along three
axes of rotation.  This has also been demonstrated in many episodes.

I suspect you may be new not only to B5, but also to thorough
reviews and discussions of SF in the online medium.  Thanks for
jumping in, and I hope my comments provide some context that will
increase your understanding and enjoyment of this fun and
fascinating series.

--- PPoint 1.92
 * Origin: "Bother," said Pooh (1:105/290.5)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 318 of 322
 From : Chris Baugh                         1:105/290.5     .óá 17 .þí 95 16:28
 To   : Dkimmel
 Subj : B5 TALK
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On (10 Jun 95) Dkimmel wrote to Frank Eva...

 D > I hope they can schedule this better next season so the season
 D > finale actually runs in the spring.

Am I the only person who doesn't mind the postponement?  July is a
good time to do other things, and we avoid a summer cliff-hanger.

... Don't use commas, which aren't necessary.

--- PPoint 1.92
 * Origin: "Bother," said Pooh (1:105/290.5)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 319 of 322
 From : James Walton                        1:129/260       .cê 18 .þí 95 03:30
 To   : Dan Kachoogian
 Subj : Re: Garden State Science Fiction Conspiracy Update
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

JW>> Do you people have a monthly newsletter or fanzine?

 DK> At the moment, no. However, I have been sending out updates to people
 DK> who have expressed interest. Mostly to try and bring in some more
 DK> people... Those who have, thus far, been (cowardly, I mean UNABLE) to
 DK> attend our meetings.

I am interested in seeing how you keep people interested in coming back yo
meetings, etc.  In our club we bring in speakers sometimes, such as space
shuttle scientists, writers, etc.  No program appeals to everybody, so there
are some members who never attend meetings. (But they complain anyway.)

We even put on a Covention every year.  (Such fun.)





--- Via Silver Xpress V4.00 SW12427
 * Origin: ConFluence '95 goes to Mars! (1:129/260)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 320 of 322
 From : Chris Carter                        1:105/302.23    .óá 17 .þí 95 04:20
 To   : Jeff Hancock
 Subj : Vorlon Immortality
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
<dialogue about Kosh's face deleted>

 JH> I still think he'll have a face, though. ;-)

The real reason for the encounter suit is to hide a very large, very
embarrasing, wart.

 JH> So, when are we going to hear again from that race Ivanova ...
 JH> diplomatically dealt with from _Acts of Sacrifice_?

<Warning!  The next comment might be considered offensive by some of
our more sheltered readers.>

The next time the representative of that race gets a woody.

 JH> And considering that John Kahane said that the Marcab WAS the
 JH> homeworld to be destroyed this season, why haven't I seen a
 JH> thread between you and him discussing it?

That's because I know the real answer.  This matter does not require
a debate.

*** Insertion of 30 lines of spoiler space.  Unless you are Jeff
Hancock, or suicidal, don't read any further. ***




























 JH> Prime choice is the Narn, considering how the war is going and
 JH> that it's been fore-Shadowed.

You're right.  This has been revealed as a spoiler for one of the
last four episodes of this season, in rec.arts.sf.tv.babylon5.

Chris - carter@teleport.com


--- cPoint v2.17/FreeWare
 * Origin: Carter's Conspicuous Consumption (1:105/302.23)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 321 of 322
 From : Chris Carter                        1:105/302.23    .óá 17 .þí 95 04:11
 To   : David Johnston
 Subj : B5 Ripoff: Ds9
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 DJ> Apparently by the time the series is over, Earth will be a
 DJ> full blown dictatorship. This is not the direction I would
 DJ> prefer.  I would at least like to see some signs of opposition
 DJ> developing against the trend.

General Hague and Co. aren't enough for you, eh?

Chris - carter@teleport.com


--- cPoint v2.17/FreeWare
 * Origin: Carter's Conspicuous Consumption (1:105/302.23)

Ä [17] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 322 of 322
 From : David Johnston                      1:342/14        .îí 19 .þí 95 12:05
 To   : Jeff Hancock
 Subj : Vorlon Immortality
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
-> DJ>However, Morden's encounter with Kosh probably "enlightened" the
-> DJ>Shadows about just what the Vorlons really are...assuming they
-> didn't DJ>already know.
->
-> That's what I've suspected, yet the Shadows aren't starting a new
-> offensive.

We have been told that the Shadows were defeated through striking too
soon the last time.  Now they are being more cautious and gathering
their forces more completely, as well as operating through pawns.  What
the Vorlons truly seem to wish to avoid, is Shadow knowledge that the
Terrans are catching on so that the Shadows don't eliminate the humans.

--- PCBoard (R) v15.21/100
 * Origin: Freddy's Place - Edm. AB - 28.8K (403) 456-4241 (1:342/14)

Ä [20] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 1 of 158
 From : Gloria Darcy                        1:124/8107      .pä 14 .þí 95 21:19
 To   : Mark Jones
 Subj : HighLander, The Series
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
I think it's just disgusting that your channel is going to drop Highlander.  Let
us know how things turn out if you decide to pursue your plans to contact the
Highlander producers, etc.  We got lucky that the channel that usually ran
Highalnder that's being taken over by FOX is not running it anymore, but another
local channel has taken over.  Thank God!  We absolutely have a Highlander
withdrawal panic attack if we can't see it once a week!

Gloria


--- Maximus/2 2.02
 * Origin: Palindrome WriterNet [Fiction&Non] (1:124/8107)

Ä [20] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 2 of 158
 From : David Johnston                      1:342/14        .òp 20 .þí 95 00:01
 To   : Chris Carter
 Subj : B5 Ripoff: Ds9
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
-> DJ> Apparently by the time the series is over, Earth will be a DJ>
-> full blown dictatorship. This is not the direction I would DJ>
-> prefer.  I would at least like to see some signs of opposition DJ>
-> developing against the trend.
-> General Hague and Co. aren't enough for you, eh?

Not really.  I'd like to see someone protesting out loud instead of just
conspiring.

--- PCBoard (R) v15.21/100
 * Origin: Freddy's Place - Edm. AB - 28.8K (403) 456-4241 (1:342/14)

Ä [20] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 3 of 158
 From : David Johnston                      1:342/14        .òp 20 .þí 95 00:04
 To   : Frank Glover
 Subj : Re: St: The Next Generati
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
-> DJ>  -> Agreed. For one, control of the aging process will come
-> *well* DJ>  -> before that, and possibly in time for some of us
-> today. DJ>
-> DJ>  It isn't that easy to beat entropy.  We might have immortality
-> in 400 DJ>  years, but it wouldn't be by totally stopping the aging
-> process of DJ>  the
-> DJ>  human body.  That would take a lot longer to master.  Then
-> again, so DJ>  will FTL travel.
->
-> I'd have to disagree. Life in general is a battle against entropy,
-> one merely (!) has to intervene in ways that give us a better chance.

And that would extend the human lifespan, but I understood control to
mean stabilisation into an endless natural lifespan and that should take
a lot longer than the kind of time frame in question.

--- PCBoard (R) v15.21/100
 * Origin: Freddy's Place - Edm. AB - 28.8K (403) 456-4241 (1:342/14)

Ä [20] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 4 of 158
 From : David Johnston                      1:342/14        .òp 20 .þí 95 00:37
 To   : Jeff Hancock
 Subj : Vorlon Immortality 2.1
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
-> Here's a Q for you: How did Delenn and Kosh know that Sheridan had
-> Morden in custody?

Perhaps Delenn is monitoring the Centauri diplomatic communications.

--- PCBoard (R) v15.21/100
 * Origin: Freddy's Place - Edm. AB - 28.8K (403) 456-4241 (1:342/14)

Ä [20] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 5 of 158
 From : David Johnston                      1:342/14        .òp 20 .þí 95 00:45
 To   : Jack Butler
 Subj : Kilmer As Batman
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
->    The only problem I can see is a villain shortage.  Right quick
-> they
-> are going to run out of "recognizable" villains for Batman to fight.
-> All the villains who became "name recognizable" by way of the 60's TV
-> show (the Joker, Penguin, Riddler, Catwoman) have been done (and most
-> have been killed

The cartoon has popularised a few more villains so they can probably get
by.  However, I do have to point out that Two-Face had the kind of death
that villians regularly return from in the comics.

--- PCBoard (R) v15.21/100
 * Origin: Freddy's Place - Edm. AB - 28.8K (403) 456-4241 (1:342/14)

Ä [20] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 6 of 158
 From : David Johnston                      1:342/14        .òp 20 .þí 95 00:48
 To   : Steve Wiser
 Subj : H20 Wrld=thunderdome+h2o
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
-> RL> I think the premise is that, due to Global Warming, the earth is
-> virtually RL> covered with water and there exist a number of
-> "floaties" that vie for RL> domination but beyond that I don't know
-> too much about the plot. RL>
->
-> Why would a ThunderDome on water cost so much?  I don't think
-> the original with Mel Gibson cost very much.

It costs a lot because building sets on water, BIG sets on water is an
expensive proposition.  So is filming underwater.  So is having one of
your boats sink.

--- PCBoard (R) v15.21/100
 * Origin: Freddy's Place - Edm. AB - 28.8K (403) 456-4241 (1:342/14)

Ä [20] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 7 of 158
 From : Steve Wiser                         1:264/417       .òp 20 .þí 95 19:08
 To   : Jeff Young
 Subj : Re: bABYLON5
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12  94-2151

JY>  SH> And what is that planet it is orbiting around?
JY>

Its neutral territory and the planet is call Epsilon Three.
No, its not Minbari own, although a Minbari was chosen by
the caretaker to be his replacement. Apparently the master
brain of the planet has now a Minbari, one of Delenns
favorite  teachers. An old race that has gone on apparently
has left a weapons cache for the future of the universe and
this is it.  The new caretaker now has the control of the
planet and can look out over the universe(at least that's
what he said he could do from the planet below).

Has anyone seen the post that the writer/producer has stated
that is the most complete analysis yet of the B5 arc?  I have
it from the internet if anyone would like me to cross-post it
here.  There are two post that JMS complimented.

Steve Wiser

---
 * KWQ/2 1.2g * Bablyon Five, the best of Televison...

--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12
 * Origin: The Richmond Connection, Richmond, VA  804-740-2186  (1:264/417.0)

Ä [20] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 8 of 158
 From : Steve Wiser                         1:264/417       .òp 20 .þí 95 19:38
 To   : Bill Bottke
 Subj : JMS compiled messages [6/
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.SPLIT: 22 Jun 95 08:57:52 @264/417     16    01/02 +++++++++++
.TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12  94-2151

BB> From: bottke@organpipe.uug.arizona.edu (Bill Bottke )
BB>
BB> =================================================================
BB> Comments, questions, or additional information should be sent to:
BB> Bill Bottke  (E-mail: bottke@lpl.arizona.edu)
BB>
BB> *** Note:  This is *really* the last one for a few weeks.  I mean it
BB>            this time!
BB> =================================================================

BB>
BB>      The warrior caste was subdued by the coming of Valen, who brought
BB> the law about not killing other Minbari, and formed the Grey Council.  The
BB> Rim is the edge of known space.  The absolute bottom/rim gravity in B5 is
BB> about 1.2 G; the C&C gravity is about 1/3rd G.
BB>


BB>                                                                       jms
BB>
BB>      If something happens to me...nobody gets the notes.  The whole POINT
BB> is that this is a personal story, told out of a personal vision.  So if
BB> you want to see this story finished, it behooves y'all to keep my sorry
BB> ass alive for the next 3 years.
BB>
BB>                                                                  jms
BB>
BB>
BB> : In your opinion, knowing what you know now, with no obligation to
BB> : stay, what is the probability that you will still be on this newsgroup
BB> : one year from now if:
BB>
BB> : 1) Nothing changes
BB> : 2) This newsgroup is moderated
BB> : 3) This newsgroup is moderated and a .creative newsgroup is also
BB> :    formed.
BB> : 4) This newsgroup is moderated and an unmoderated newsgroup is formed
BB> :    (much like the alt group, story ideas frowned upon)
BB> : Jay Denebeim
BB>
BB>      I imagine that the odds of my continuing are pretty much the same
BB> for options 2 through 4; option 1 will eventually cause a problem, I
BB> think, the way things are going.  While the group was of resaonable
BB> size, it was easier to influence things; with the mammoth increase in
BB> membership, and the increase in plot speculation, eventually the limit
BB> on what I can afford to be exposed to will have to be hit.
BB>
BB>                                                                     jms
BB>
BB> :  <straczynski@genie.geis.com> wrote:
BB> : >     The warrior caste was subdued by the coming of Valen, who brought
BB> : >the law about not killing other Minbari, and formed the Grey Council.  T

e

BB>
BB> : Holy Valen! So the warrior caste has been ticked off for 1,000 years.  No
BB> : wonder they're so scary.  They've held a grudge against Valen for that
BB> : long. Now all their scoffing at the prophecy and the religious caste
BB> : makes sense.  Personally, I think these guys killed Dukhat to ruin
BB> : Valen's prophecy  -- Revenge motivation (of course the humans could have
BB> : gotten VERY lucky and I'm wrong).
BB>
BB> : Delenn refuses to help the Children of Time because someone interfered
BB> : with Minbari religion and the results have caused her and her people to
BB> : avoid doing so to others.  Valen is said to return.
BB> : So 1,000 years ago, how did Valen do his coming and going?  I'm beginning
BB> : to seriously wonder is this Valen guy was a Minbari at all.  Someone
BB> : subduing a violent caste sounds like manipulation.  And those prophecies
BB> : do hint at more knowledge than the Minbari had at that time.  Of course
BB> : he could be a Minbari with powerful friends so he could maintain control
BB> : and reign in the warrior caste AND set up the new Minbari government.  Or
BB> : he could be powerful himself.  Perhaps he had the help of three
BB> : triluminaries; I'm sure their powers, creatively applied, could go a long
BB> : way.
BB> : Christopher Novosad
BB>
BB>
BB>      Christopher: save this message of yours and keep it at hand going
BB> into the second season, around the 10th episode or so.
BB>
BB>                                                                  jms
BB>
BB>      (sigh...I meant third season, wrote second...still dealing with
BB> the renewal.)
BB>
BB>      Whether one becomes religious, warrior or worker caste is something
BB> that arises early on, not through birth or genetics, but what you are
BB> called to do, or feel called to do.  If you believe that you are calleed
BB> to the religious life, you go to that part for a time, a few years, and
BB> that is determined by you and to a certain extent, others.  If you seem
BB> not suited toward that, they may work with you to find what you are more
BB> suited for (and perhaps you felt *expected* to be called a certain way,
BB> but that's not really where you're best suited).
BB>
BB>                                                              jms
BB>
BB>      We'll see Minbar at least once in year three, perhaps more.
BB>
BB>                                                                       jms

BB>      No, the last ep of this season wasn't per se a cliffhanger, though it
BB> does tip over a few things, so it flows from 222 to 301 fairly smoothly.
BB>
BB>                                                                    jms
BB>


BB> :    I recently had an opportunity to go back and watch some episodes.  The
BB> : name of the particular episode escapes me, but it is where the Shadowship

BB> : attack the Narn outpost.  In it the perspective of the camera sweeps
BB> : around, zooms through the protruding spines on the ships and we see the
BB> : shadows firing on the outpost on the planet below.
BB> :    I watched it on a friends large TV with stereo pumped and I must say,
BB> : as I've said before, that one scene qualifies in my mind as a true piece
BB> : of art.
BB> :    This is indicative of the CGI FX for the entire show.  Not only are yo

BB> : using this new technology to take care of FX for the show, but you seem t

BB> : be pushing its potential, not settling for traditional, straight shots --
BB> : making sure those of us in the audience can get that rush of awe and
BB> : wonder we look for in sf (both in the FX and in the epic proportions of
BB> : the storyline.
BB> :    I would just like to extend my congratulations and thanks to you and
BB> : the people who worked on that scene and others: I consider something like
BB> : that an achievement equal to that of any great artist.
BB> : Tudor Lewis
BB>
BB>
BB>      Thanks.  That scene in "Coming of Shadows" is one of my favorites;
BB> it does, as you say, convey that sense of wonder which is one of my main
BB> goals with this show.
BB>
BB>      Until "The Long Twilight Struggle," nothing else has come close to
BB> that scene for me.  But there's some stuff in there that finally manages
BB> to surpass it.  Just gorgeous and scary and awe-inspiring.
BB>
BB>                                                                   jms

BB>      Of course we're going to find out more about why the shadows are
BB> doing and what they want; it'd be kinda pointless otherwise, no?
BB>
BB>                                                                  jms


BB> : If the Minbari prophecies regarding humans go all the way back to Valen a

d

BB> : the founding of the Grey Council, why did the Grey Council endorse the
BB> : Earth-Minbari war as they did?  The Minbari certainly gave all appearance

BB> : of planning to wipe us clean off the galactic map (although this is of
BB> : course open to question).  At any rate, it seems that they should have be

n

BB> : leary of interfering with whatever destiny we're supposed to have in stor

,

BB> : as a war of that scale could surely do.
BB> : Steven M.
BB>
BB>       There was the prophecy, but they didn't know specifically to which
BB> race it pertained until much later.
BB>
BB>                                                                      jms

BB> Subj:  Initials                         Section: Babylon 5
BB>   To:  Tuesday, June 13, 1995 1:22:03 AM
BB> From:  J. Michael Straczynski, 71016,1644#239120
BB>
BB>  >> Is it just a coincidence that Jeff Sinclair, John Sheridan
BB> and Joe Straczynski all have the same initials? <<
BB>
BB>      Probably not.
BB>
BB>                                                       jms
BB>
BB> Subj:  <<Talia & Vir>>-Spoiler          Section: Babylon 5
BB>   To:  Wednesday, June 14, 1995 2:50:18 AM
BB> From:  J. Michael Straczynski, 71016,1644#240268
BB>
BB> >>Talia Winters is either getting killed off or thrown in jail
BB> back on earth.  She is the one who tried to kill Kosh at very
BB> beginning of show.  In real life, the actress who plays her and
BB> the actor that plays Garabaldi are engaged!!!  The shadows
BB> attack the Narn home world and do major damage.  Vir is getting
BB> killed off.I wonder if their sources are reliable.
BB> We will see..............<<
BB>
BB>      I'd say overall that's the most breathtakingly jumbled
BB> batch of half-rumors and quarter-truths I've seen.  You can
BB> disregard, oh, 98% of it.
BB>
BB>
BB> Subj:  Why B5 on TV?                    Section: Babylon 5
BB>   To:  Wednesday, June 14, 1995 11:15:17 PM
BB> From:  J. Michael Straczynski, 71016,1644#241212
BB>
BB>      Any time I come up with a story, I try to look around
BB> to determine where it would work best.  This one *felt*
BB> like it belonged to TV.
BB>
BB>      More than that, though...I went into this looking to
BB> create a saga for TV.  It wasn't so much coming up with the
BB> story, and realizing it was a TV saga, as it was, "Nobody's ever
BB> done a multi-year science fiction saga for television.
BB> As a thought-experiment, can I come up with something that
BB> would work in this medium?"  This led me to the structure that
BB> became Babylon 5.
BB>
BB>                                                        jms
BB>
BB>
BB> Subj:  B5's Military Metaphor           Section: Babylon 5
BB>   To:  Wednesday, June 14, 1995 11:15:15 PM
BB> From:  J. Michael Straczynski, 71016,1644#241211
BB>
BB>      As I responded in private mail, I'm drawing upon a number
BB> of military influences in the show; some from WW I, in the Great
BB> War and how WW I sort of slid into WW II; some tactical and
BB> strategic elements of WW II military; and some of the political
BB> elements that went into the Vietnam and Korean conflicts.
BB> Actual tactics and battles will vary; there's a major battle
BB> setpiece in a later episode that uses more contemporary and
BB> futuristic elements such as long-distance (thousands of
BB> kilometers) tactics, interceptors and the like.
BB>
BB>      Also as I noted in email...I just learned today from someone
BB> high up in military PR in Washington that Babylon 5 is very popular
BB> with many branches of the military.  They call it a "force multiplier"
BB> (morale booster) for naval and air force and ground troops (apparently
BB> the show gets shipped out to bases and to carrier/battleship groups).
BB> It's also very popular with many folks in the Pentagon and the Secret
BB> Service.  (In one case, the Secret Service apparently did an analysis
BB> of one of our episodes as an exercise in character analysis of
BB> military persons under high-stress situations.)  The Flying Tigers
BB> have also been very supportive of the show, even allowing us to use
BB> their symbol in the series.
BB>
BB>                                                       jms

BB>
BB> Subj:  B5 Military                      Section: Babylon 5
BB>   To:  Thursday, June 15, 1995 10:25:12 PM
BB> From:  J. Michael Straczynski, 71016,1644#242354
BB>
BB>      Vorlons/Shadows at the top of the force, Minbari after,
BB> Centauri, with Humans and Narns not that far apart.
BB>
BB>      Er...what was the suggestion again...?
BB>
BB>                                                       jms
BB>
BB> -------------------------------------------------------------------
BB> **************************************************************************
BB> ***** sorso@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu **** "Every silver lining has a cloud." *****
BB> **************************************************************************
BB>
BB> What follows is a pair of analyses of two major aspects of the
BB> *Babylon 5* story arc that have recently coalesced in my mind.  To
BB> some extent they are independent and could have been typed up as
BB> separate posts; however, if the first analysis is right, it would
BB> also come into play as an argument for what I advance in the second
BB> analysis.  Accordingly, I'm putting both together here.  Apologies
BB> if the length of this post proves inconvenient. (And apologies of
BB> another sort.  At this writing I am a few hundred miles from my
BB> PC, which means (a) I have to write this without the software that
BB> lets me bounce back and forth between the text I'm writing and the
BB> Lurker's Guide to check my memory of plot details, and (b) I have
BB> to type using a keyboard that seems to have been manufactured by
BB> the makers of the Yugo.  If there are factual slips, I trust they
BB> will be minor ones that do not preclude the main line of argument;
BB> and if I don't purge this post of all its typos before I transmit
BB> it, bear with me.)
BB>
BB> I.  The Unified Field Theory of Conspiracies
BB>
BB> A few weeks ago, in a post that referred to the abundance of
BB> conspiracies in the Babylon 5 universe, I half-jokingly suggested
BB> we needed a Unified Field Theory of Conspiracies to simplify
BB> keeping track of things.  Okay, consider the following paranoid
BB> possibility for an UFTC:  All the calamitous problems lately are
BB> the work of the Shadows.
BB>
BB> Could the influence of the Shadows really be so pervasive?  Let's
BB> consider what evidence is available, taking it species by species:
BB>
BB>   EARTH:  The Earth Alliance is afflicted by three conspiracies of
BB>   note--(1) the Clark Administration's accession by means of
BB>   assassination and its impletmentation of a number of  distressing
BB>   measures aimed to enhance its political control; (2) the dirty
BB>   tricks operation being run by the group known as Bureau 13; and (3)
BB>   the rogue element in Psi Corps's leadership engaged in a eugenics
BB>   campaign to develop more powerful telepaths.  It's been fairly
BB>   clear for some time that Psi Corps is the common thread to these
BB>   conspiracies.  Garibaldi's treacherous aide Jack gave Garibaldi
BB>   the same salute ("Revelations") that Bester gave in "Mind War."

--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12
 * Origin: The Richmond Connection, Richmond, VA  804-740-2186  (1:264/417.0)

Ä [20] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 9 of 158
 From : Steve Wiser                         1:264/417       .òp 20 .þí 95 19:38
 To   : Bill Bottke
 Subj : 2 JMS compiled messages [6/
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.SPLIT: 22 Jun 95 08:57:52 @264/417     16    02/02 +++++++++++
.TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12  94-2151

BB>   That establishes a link between the Corps and the Clark faction--
BB>   a link for which there is other evidence we haven't seen, to judge
BB>   by the suspicions that General Hague voiced in "All Alone in the
BB>   Night."  The Corps is also linked to Bureau 13 by the woman we
BB>   know as "Thirteen"--i.e., the woman who managed the conspiracy
BB>   seen in "Spider in the Web."  Thirteen is a telepath, and Psi
BB>   Corps's records have been doctored to list her as dead, thereby
BB>   providing cover for her to drop out of sight and manage things
BB>   from the San Diego wasteland.  Where do the Shadows come in?
BB>   For that you have to refer to the current four-part story now
BB>   unfolding in the Babylon 5 comics (synopses available through the
BB>   Lurker's Guide). It's becoming quite clear that there is some
BB>   kind of Shadow presence on Mars, and Mars is also the site of a
BB>   top-secret Psi Corps base.  Indeed, it's evidently a base where
BB>   skulduggery takes place--that's where Bester was interrogating his
BB>   prisoner to lethal effect in the outset of "A Race Through Dark
BB>   Places."  I'm increasingly skeptical that Morden is the only
BB>   human with whom the Shadows have been working.
BB>
BB>         ASIDE:  If this is right, then the current debate over who
BB>         the traitor on B5 will turn out to be takes on a whole new
BB>         twist.  The comic series shows the Shadow-minions on Mars
BB>         capable of mind-control over humans.

--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12
 * Origin: The Richmond Connection, Richmond, VA  804-740-2186  (1:264/417.0)

Ä [20] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 10 of 158
 From : Steve Wiser                         1:264/417       .òp 20 .þí 95 20:10
 To   : All
 Subj : JMS compiled messages [6/
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.SPLIT: 22 Jun 95 08:57:52 @264/417     18    01/02 +++++++++++
.TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12  94-2151

BB> From: bottke@organpipe.uug.arizona.edu (Bill Bottke )
BB>
BB> =================================================================
BB> Comments, questions, or additional information should be sent to:
BB> Bill Bottke  (E-mail: bottke@lpl.arizona.edu)
BB>
BB> *** Note:  This is *really* the last one for a few weeks.  I mean it
BB>            this time!
BB> =================================================================

BB>
BB>      The warrior caste was subdued by the coming of Valen, who brought
BB> the law about not killing other Minbari, and formed the Grey Council.  The
BB> Rim is the edge of known space.  The absolute bottom/rim gravity in B5 is
BB> about 1.2 G; the C&C gravity is about 1/3rd G.
BB>


BB>                                                                       jms
BB>
BB>      If something happens to me...nobody gets the notes.  The whole POINT
BB> is that this is a personal story, told out of a personal vision.  So if
BB> you want to see this story finished, it behooves y'all to keep my sorry
BB> ass alive for the next 3 years.
BB>
BB>                                                                  jms
BB>
BB>
BB> : In your opinion, knowing what you know now, with no obligation to
BB> : stay, what is the probability that you will still be on this newsgroup
BB> : one year from now if:
BB>
BB> : 1) Nothing changes
BB> : 2) This newsgroup is moderated
BB> : 3) This newsgroup is moderated and a .creative newsgroup is also
BB> :    formed.
BB> : 4) This newsgroup is moderated and an unmoderated newsgroup is formed
BB> :    (much like the alt group, story ideas frowned upon)
BB> : Jay Denebeim
BB>
BB>      I imagine that the odds of my continuing are pretty much the same
BB> for options 2 through 4; option 1 will eventually cause a problem, I
BB> think, the way things are going.  While the group was of resaonable
BB> size, it was easier to influence things; with the mammoth increase in
BB> membership, and the increase in plot speculation, eventually the limit
BB> on what I can afford to be exposed to will have to be hit.
BB>
BB>                                                                     jms
BB>
BB> :  <straczynski@genie.geis.com> wrote:
BB> : >     The warrior caste was subdued by the coming of Valen, who brought
BB> : >the law about not killing other Minbari, and formed the Grey Council.  T

e

BB>
BB> : Holy Valen! So the warrior caste has been ticked off for 1,000 years.  No
BB> : wonder they're so scary.  They've held a grudge against Valen for that
BB> : long. Now all their scoffing at the prophecy and the religious caste
BB> : makes sense.  Personally, I think these guys killed Dukhat to ruin
BB> : Valen's prophecy  -- Revenge motivation (of course the humans could have
BB> : gotten VERY lucky and I'm wrong).
BB>
BB> : Delenn refuses to help the Children of Time because someone interfered
BB> : with Minbari religion and the results have caused her and her people to
BB> : avoid doing so to others.  Valen is said to return.
BB> : So 1,000 years ago, how did Valen do his coming and going?  I'm beginning
BB> : to seriously wonder is this Valen guy was a Minbari at all.  Someone
BB> : subduing a violent caste sounds like manipulation.  And those prophecies
BB> : do hint at more knowledge than the Minbari had at that time.  Of course
BB> : he could be a Minbari with powerful friends so he could maintain control
BB> : and reign in the warrior caste AND set up the new Minbari government.  Or
BB> : he could be powerful himself.  Perhaps he had the help of three
BB> : triluminaries; I'm sure their powers, creatively applied, could go a long
BB> : way.
BB> : Christopher Novosad
BB>
BB>
BB>      Christopher: save this message of yours and keep it at hand going
BB> into the second season, around the 10th episode or so.
BB>
BB>                                                                  jms
BB>
BB>      (sigh...I meant third season, wrote second...still dealing with
BB> the renewal.)
BB>
BB>      Whether one becomes religious, warrior or worker caste is something
BB> that arises early on, not through birth or genetics, but what you are
BB> called to do, or feel called to do.  If you believe that you are calleed
BB> to the religious life, you go to that part for a time, a few years, and
BB> that is determined by you and to a certain extent, others.  If you seem
BB> not suited toward that, they may work with you to find what you are more
BB> suited for (and perhaps you felt *expected* to be called a certain way,
BB> but that's not really where you're best suited).
BB>
BB>                                                              jms
BB>
BB>      We'll see Minbar at least once in year three, perhaps more.
BB>
BB>                                                                       jms

BB>      No, the last ep of this season wasn't per se a cliffhanger, though it
BB> does tip over a few things, so it flows from 222 to 301 fairly smoothly.
BB>
BB>                                                                    jms
BB>


BB> :    I recently had an opportunity to go back and watch some episodes.  The
BB> : name of the particular episode escapes me, but it is where the Shadowship

BB> : attack the Narn outpost.  In it the perspective of the camera sweeps
BB> : around, zooms through the protruding spines on the ships and we see the
BB> : shadows firing on the outpost on the planet below.
BB> :    I watched it on a friends large TV with stereo pumped and I must say,
BB> : as I've said before, that one scene qualifies in my mind as a true piece
BB> : of art.
BB> :    This is indicative of the CGI FX for the entire show.  Not only are yo

BB> : using this new technology to take care of FX for the show, but you seem t

BB> : be pushing its potential, not settling for traditional, straight shots --
BB> : making sure those of us in the audience can get that rush of awe and
BB> : wonder we look for in sf (both in the FX and in the epic proportions of
BB> : the storyline.
BB> :    I would just like to extend my congratulations and thanks to you and
BB> : the people who worked on that scene and others: I consider something like
BB> : that an achievement equal to that of any great artist.
BB> : Tudor Lewis
BB>
BB>
BB>      Thanks.  That scene in "Coming of Shadows" is one of my favorites;
BB> it does, as you say, convey that sense of wonder which is one of my main
BB> goals with this show.
BB>
BB>      Until "The Long Twilight Struggle," nothing else has come close to
BB> that scene for me.  But there's some stuff in there that finally manages
BB> to surpass it.  Just gorgeous and scary and awe-inspiring.
BB>
BB>                                                                   jms

BB>      Of course we're going to find out more about why the shadows are
BB> doing and what they want; it'd be kinda pointless otherwise, no?
BB>
BB>                                                                  jms


BB> : If the Minbari prophecies regarding humans go all the way back to Valen a

d

BB> : the founding of the Grey Council, why did the Grey Council endorse the
BB> : Earth-Minbari war as they did?  The Minbari certainly gave all appearance

BB> : of planning to wipe us clean off the galactic map (although this is of
BB> : course open to question).  At any rate, it seems that they should have be

n

BB> : leary of interfering with whatever destiny we're supposed to have in stor

,

BB> : as a war of that scale could surely do.
BB> : Steven M.
BB>
BB>       There was the prophecy, but they didn't know specifically to which
BB> race it pertained until much later.
BB>
BB>                                                                      jms

BB> Subj:  Initials                         Section: Babylon 5
BB>   To:  Tuesday, June 13, 1995 1:22:03 AM
BB> From:  J. Michael Straczynski, 71016,1644#239120
BB>
BB>  >> Is it just a coincidence that Jeff Sinclair, John Sheridan
BB> and Joe Straczynski all have the same initials? <<
BB>
BB>      Probably not.
BB>
BB>                                                       jms
BB>
BB> Subj:  <<Talia & Vir>>-Spoiler          Section: Babylon 5
BB>   To:  Wednesday, June 14, 1995 2:50:18 AM
BB> From:  J. Michael Straczynski, 71016,1644#240268
BB>
BB> >>Talia Winters is either getting killed off or thrown in jail
BB> back on earth.  She is the one who tried to kill Kosh at very
BB> beginning of show.  In real life, the actress who plays her and
BB> the actor that plays Garabaldi are engaged!!!  The shadows
BB> attack the Narn home world and do major damage.  Vir is getting
BB> killed off.I wonder if their sources are reliable.
BB> We will see..............<<
BB>
BB>      I'd say overall that's the most breathtakingly jumbled
BB> batch of half-rumors and quarter-truths I've seen.  You can
BB> disregard, oh, 98% of it.
BB>
BB>
BB> Subj:  Why B5 on TV?                    Section: Babylon 5
BB>   To:  Wednesday, June 14, 1995 11:15:17 PM
BB> From:  J. Michael Straczynski, 71016,1644#241212
BB>
BB>      Any time I come up with a story, I try to look around
BB> to determine where it would work best.  This one *felt*
BB> like it belonged to TV.
BB>
BB>      More than that, though...I went into this looking to
BB> create a saga for TV.  It wasn't so much coming up with the
BB> story, and realizing it was a TV saga, as it was, "Nobody's ever
BB> done a multi-year science fiction saga for television.
BB> As a thought-experiment, can I come up with something that
BB> would work in this medium?"  This led me to the structure that
BB> became Babylon 5.
BB>
BB>                                                        jms
BB>
BB>
BB> Subj:  B5's Military Metaphor           Section: Babylon 5
BB>   To:  Wednesday, June 14, 1995 11:15:15 PM
BB> From:  J. Michael Straczynski, 71016,1644#241211
BB>
BB>      As I responded in private mail, I'm drawing upon a number
BB> of military influences in the show; some from WW I, in the Great
BB> War and how WW I sort of slid into WW II; some tactical and
BB> strategic elements of WW II military; and some of the political
BB> elements that went into the Vietnam and Korean conflicts.
BB> Actual tactics and battles will vary; there's a major battle
BB> setpiece in a later episode that uses more contemporary and
BB> futuristic elements such as long-distance (thousands of
BB> kilometers) tactics, interceptors and the like.
BB>
BB>      Also as I noted in email...I just learned today from someone
BB> high up in military PR in Washington that Babylon 5 is very popular
BB> with many branches of the military.  They call it a "force multiplier"
BB> (morale booster) for naval and air force and ground troops (apparently
BB> the show gets shipped out to bases and to carrier/battleship groups).
BB> It's also very popular with many folks in the Pentagon and the Secret
BB> Service.  (In one case, the Secret Service apparently did an analysis
BB> of one of our episodes as an exercise in character analysis of
BB> military persons under high-stress situations.)  The Flying Tigers
BB> have also been very supportive of the show, even allowing us to use
BB> their symbol in the series.
BB>
BB>                                                       jms

BB>
BB> Subj:  B5 Military                      Section: Babylon 5
BB>   To:  Thursday, June 15, 1995 10:25:12 PM
BB> From:  J. Michael Straczynski, 71016,1644#242354
BB>
BB>      Vorlons/Shadows at the top of the force, Minbari after,
BB> Centauri, with Humans and Narns not that far apart.
BB>
BB>      Er...what was the suggestion again...?
BB>
BB>                                                       jms
BB>
BB> -------------------------------------------------------------------
BB> **************************************************************************
BB> ***** sorso@ux1.cso.uiuc.edu **** "Every silver lining has a cloud." *****
BB> **************************************************************************
BB>
BB> What follows is a pair of analyses of two major aspects of the
BB> *Babylon 5* story arc that have recently coalesced in my mind.  To
BB> some extent they are independent and could have been typed up as
BB> separate posts; however, if the first analysis is right, it would
BB> also come into play as an argument for what I advance in the second
BB> analysis.  Accordingly, I'm putting both together here.  Apologies
BB> if the length of this post proves inconvenient. (And apologies of
BB> another sort.  At this writing I am a few hundred miles from my
BB> PC, which means (a) I have to write this without the software that
BB> lets me bounce back and forth between the text I'm writing and the
BB> Lurker's Guide to check my memory of plot details, and (b) I have
BB> to type using a keyboard that seems to have been manufactured by
BB> the makers of the Yugo.  If there are factual slips, I trust they
BB> will be minor ones that do not preclude the main line of argument;
BB> and if I don't purge this post of all its typos before I transmit
BB> it, bear with me.)
BB>
BB> I.  The Unified Field Theory of Conspiracies
BB>
BB> A few weeks ago, in a post that referred to the abundance of
BB> conspiracies in the Babylon 5 universe, I half-jokingly suggested
BB> we needed a Unified Field Theory of Conspiracies to simplify
BB> keeping track of things.  Okay, consider the following paranoid
BB> possibility for an UFTC:  All the calamitous problems lately are
BB> the work of the Shadows.
BB>
BB> Could the influence of the Shadows really be so pervasive?  Let's
BB> consider what evidence is available, taking it species by species:
BB>
BB>   EARTH:  The Earth Alliance is afflicted by three conspiracies of
BB>   note--(1) the Clark Administration's accession by means of
BB>   assassination and its impletmentation of a number of  distressing
BB>   measures aimed to enhance its political control; (2) the dirty
BB>   tricks operation being run by the group known as Bureau 13; and (3)
BB>   the rogue element in Psi Corps's leadership engaged in a eugenics
BB>   campaign to develop more powerful telepaths.  It's been fairly
BB>   clear for some time that Psi Corps is the common thread to these
BB>   conspiracies.  Garibaldi's treacherous aide Jack gave Garibaldi
BB>   the same salute ("Revelations") that Bester gave in "Mind War."

--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12
 * Origin: The Richmond Connection, Richmond, VA  804-740-2186  (1:264/417.0)

Ä [20] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 11 of 158
 From : Steve Wiser                         1:264/417       .òp 20 .þí 95 20:10
 To   : All
 Subj : 2 JMS compiled messages [6/
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.SPLIT: 22 Jun 95 08:57:52 @264/417     18    02/02 +++++++++++
.TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12  94-2151

BB>   That establishes a link between the Corps and the Clark faction--
BB>   a link for which there is other evidence we haven't seen, to judge
BB>   by the suspicions that General Hague voiced in "All Alone in the
BB>   Night."  The Corps is also linked to Bureau 13 by the woman we
BB>   know as "Thirteen"--i.e., the woman who managed the conspiracy
BB>   seen in "Spider in the Web."  Thirteen is a telepath, and Psi
BB>   Corps's records have been doctored to list her as dead, thereby
BB>   providing cover for her to drop out of sight and manage things
BB>   from the San Diego wasteland.  Where do the Shadows come in?
BB>   For that you have to refer to the current four-part story now
BB>   unfolding in the Babylon 5 comics (synopses available through the
BB>   Lurker's Guide). It's becoming quite clear that there is some
BB>   kind of Shadow presence on Mars, and Mars is also the site of a
BB>   top-secret Psi Corps base.  Indeed, it's evidently a base where
BB>   skulduggery takes place--that's where Bester was interrogating his
BB>   prisoner to lethal effect in the outset of "A Race Through Dark
BB>   Places."  I'm increasingly skeptical that Morden is the only
BB>   human with whom the Shadows have been working.
BB>
BB>         ASIDE:  If this is right, then the current debate over who
BB>         the traitor on B5 will turn out to be takes on a whole new
BB>         twist.  The comic series shows the Shadow-minions on Mars
BB>         capable of mind-control over humans.

--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12
 * Origin: The Richmond Connection, Richmond, VA  804-740-2186  (1:264/417.0)

Ä [20] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 12 of 158
 From : John Kahane                         1:163/198.5     .òp 20 .þí 95 16:41
 To   : Brian Henderson
 Subj : B5 Merchandise
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Thursday June 15 1995 16:06>, Brian Henderson wrote the following to Frank
Eva:

 FE>> I always thought that given the choice, JMS could NOT turn
 FE>> down an opportunity to cash in on his own product. I don't
 FE>> blame him. If I had a popular property and could earn some
 FE>> money off it, I wouldn't hesitate. I think what makes this
 FE>> look bad is that prior to the offer, JMS took such a hard
 FE>> line against franchising B5. He now looks a bit hypocritical...

 BH> JMS has never, EVER said that there will be no marketing of
 BH> B5 material, only that the show will drive the marketing, not
 BH> the marketing driving the show.

     And I, for one, applaud this decision on his point.  Marketing should not
drive the show, as you point out, but there are those out there - no matter what
the tv series and whether it's sf or not - who will want merchandise for their
favourite series.  Joe has kept the merchandising tasteful for BABYLON 5 to this
point, and I believe this is a good idea.  No matter what the critics say about
it.

     John
.....
Music made for pleasure, music made to thrill.

--- GoldED/2 2.42.G0614
 * Origin: JohnK's OS/2Warp Point - Ottawa, Ontario (1:163/198.5)

Ä [20] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 13 of 158
 From : Bruce Baugh                         1:105/290.50    .òp 20 .þí 95 17:41
 To   : Jeff Hancock
 Subj : Babylon 5 (PTEN)
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On (18 Jun 95) Jeff Hancock wrote to Frank Eva...

 JH> That episode was written by PAD, and we don't know how much
 JH> input JMS had in the events therein. All we know is that PAD
 JH> gave him the opportunity, and he spaced the bear. ;) The
 JH> final scene where Sheridan wants it "all off the station" may
 JH> have been PAD, may have been JMS, we don't know where PAD let
 JH> him "have his say".

According to both JMS and PAD, actually, the spacing the bear was
JMS. So was the moment of perfect beauty.

... Are atmospheric conditions favorable for aviating porcines?

--- PPoint 1.92
 * Origin: The Home Trepanning Club (1:105/290.50)

Ä [20] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 14 of 158
 From : Rumble                              1:163/436       .pä 21 .þí 95 12:08
 To   : Ecarey
 Subj : BABYLON 5 (PTEN)
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Did you know how many people watch TOS of star trek? 20 million people! Its just
that for a network show it was considered bad. But for syndication it is a
triumph!

--- Maximus 2.02
 * Origin: Coven's Den (613)746-3584=650+ Echoes & 5+ Gigs (1:163/436)

Ä [20] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 15 of 158
 From : Tony Trujillo                       1:280/9         .òp 20 .þí 95 12:05
 To   : Jack Butler
 Subj : Re: Kilmer as Batman
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE 1.11+

 JB> films don't know from Adam. Still, I have some ideas.  I've long since
 JB> retired the original wish list I posted oh so many years ago, but
 JB> Dustin Hoffman as The Mad Hatter, Helena Bonham Carter as Poison Ivy,
 JB> Alan Rickman as Maxie Zeus, Wesley Snipes as the Black Spider, Lance
 JB> Henrikson as Ra's Al Ghul, Michael Biehn as Deadshot, and Patrick
 JB> Stewart as Mister Zero would all do as villains. Also, I think John
 JB> Goodman would do well as The Ventriloquist.

I'd love to see them use Poison Ivy in a Bat-movie!

BTW: John Goodman would make an excellent KING TUT! ;^)


... Stranded at the Shell station on the Information Superhighway
--- Via Silver Xpress V4.02B03 SW01177
 * Origin: South of the River - Overland Park KS - (913)642-7907 V.* (1:280/9)

Ä [20] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 16 of 158
 From : Wayne Crow                          1:3602/477      .pä 21 .þí 95 10:06
 To   : Keith Stokes
 Subj : CONGO
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
KS>Did anyone else like it?   I just got back from seeing it with a
  >group of about 20 people. Overall, the group gave it a 6 on a 1-10
  >scale.

  I saw the previews of "Congo". I thought it was pretty cool. I think
I'll go see it next week. Hope I ain't wasting my money.

Wayne
Internet: wayne.crow@the-matrix.com
FIDO: Wayne Crow@1:3602/477


 * QMPro 1.53 * WILDCAT! BBS þ QmodemPro þ Off-Line Xpress: Perfection!

--- TriToss (tm) Professional 1.0 - (Unregistered)
 * Origin: Adventure Sports BBS-McCalla,Al. (205)477-4214 (1:3602/477.0)

Ä [20] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 17 of 158
 From : Jeff Hancock                        1:3600/7        .òp 20 .þí 95 20:58
 To   : Ecarey
 Subj : B5 RENEWED!
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

EC>>races just to create action figures and playsets, or if he was
EC>>making multiple spinoff series with no real point to them other than
EC>Of course, RIGHT NOW, he wouldn't be able to \sell\ "multiple spinoff
EC>series", whether there was a point to them or not.  It's easy to be
EC>virtuous when nobody is trying to tempt you.

It was just an example. ;)

EC>RIGHT NOW, B5 has an awful lot of ancillary merchandise - books,
EC>comic books, Micromachines, caps, jackets - and it has only just come
EC>to the end of its second broadcast season. This much merchandise this
EC>soon is just not believable, unless the merchandising plan was
EC>developed in parallel with the series production plan.

This soon? Considering the time involved in running out the season, I
certainly would not go that far. Considering publishing time, the books
were probably planned fairly early, and the comic was probably planned
once it was clear they were going to get renewed for the second season,
the other items were probably arranged then as well. If it had died at
the end of the first season, I don't think we'd be seeing more than the
books.

Are these jackets especially made, or is it just stitching a logo patch
on an existing jacket? Caps and shirts are hardly something that takes
two years to bring to market. (and I never did get the cap I ordered)

EC>And if there really is good quality control [a theory NOT supported
EC>by the sloppiness of the novels, or the complaints I've seen here and
EC>elsewhere about the comics], that would argue even more strongly for
EC>the plans having already been \in place\ when the series first aired.
EC>You don't \get\ good control on a rush job.

IF they had been in place that early, two years for the start of the
show or three years for the premiere, that would most certainly NOT be a
"rush job" as you propose. Now if they didn't start getting into real
mechandising until the second season was a go, THEN that would support
your theory of it being a rush job, otherwise they had plenty of time to
get it right.

EC>> If the fans are asking for this kind of material, well...
EC>JMS has carefully cultivated the demand.

Yep, he did that all right. He produced a TV show that attracted a fan
base which then wanted other products related to the show. What a
sinister and dastardly plan that is, how DARE he create something that
others would want to show they enjoy by wearing T-shirts and buying
Micro Machines.

EC>But it does make the desperate attempts to make B5 marketing look
EC>Pure and Noble, while characterizing Trek marketing [which really did
EC>develop out of fan demand \first\, including widespread fan
EC>infringement on Paramount's Trek trademark] as wicked money-grubbing,
EC>look rather silly.
EC>And it's not JMS we see those foolish attempts from, either.

I think the point is that Trek seems to merchandise nearly *everything*,
in many cases what seems to be some rather inferior merchandise. How
much control they have over that I don't know, but considering that it's
Paramount I would think they have at least the _potential_ for more
control over it than JMS does. Word is that JMS has to personally
approve everything, but if there's product in the warehouse and he's
looking at a loss, how are we to know if he really has a choice in the
matter? Whereas Paramount would have the clout and the choice, but
wouldn't care.

For the books, at least that's being fixed now, whether he could change
it earlier is unknown. For the comics, I don't know if he has any
control over what creative team they assign to it or not. For the other
products... are you dissatisfied with the quality?

Now if we start seeing Sheridan action figures and Starfury toys with
"real light-up laser cannon and action-sounds" and Babylon 5 playsets
with "Ejecting Command Chair", then I'd agree it'd gone to hell in a
handbasket.
-=-
 * Crazy-J * I got moderated once for *Lurking* in that conference!

--- SLMAIL v3.5C  (#1540)
 * Origin: Robotech þ Lake City's Music*Demo BBS þ [904] 758*9477 (1:3600/7)

Ä [20] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 18 of 158
 From : Jim Cushing                         1:123/75        .îí 19 .þí 95 16:28
 To   : Louis Keser
 Subj : Re: Highlander, The Movie (3)
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 LK> I disagree, the show is more confussing than the movies ever were.

 I disagree, I started watching the series half way through the second season
 and I find it better than the movies. I don't know how you can say that the
 series is more confusing when you have 1 and 3 basically the same movie just
 the villian has been changed to Kane. I won't even get into H-2

 LK> And  Connor is better than Duncan.

 In what way? I think Adrian is better only because he has had three years
 to get adjusted to the role of Duncan.

 LK> Connor=Duncan.  I guessed they changed the name when it became a series.
 LK> If  you saw the first movie, Connor has had alot of

 Sorry but Conner was in the first episode along with Duncan and I do believe
 Joe Dawson made some mention of Conner when he stated something like "its
 a good thing your fellow clansman killed Kurgan"





... I am Pentium of Borg.  Division is futile.  You will be approximated._
--- Blue Wave/RA v2.12 [NR]
 * Origin:  Weyr Galifrey - Memphis, TN  +1.901.685.0017 (1:123/75)

Ä [20] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 19 of 158
 From : Jim Cushing                         1:123/75        .îí 19 .þí 95 16:28
 To   : Brian Henderson
 Subj : Re: B5 Ripoff: Ds9
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 BH> Trekkies don't support anything that isn't Trek,

 Bullshit Brian!

 BH> so Paramount can either  produce the Star Trek Network, or try producing
 BH> something that people  want to watch.  Any bets on which one they'll try
 BH> first?

 People have watched Paramount produced shows or have you forgotten Cheers,
 Wings, MacGyver?


... OK, I'm weird! But I'm saving up to be eccentric.
--- Blue Wave/RA v2.12 [NR]
 * Origin:  Weyr Galifrey - Memphis, TN  +1.901.685.0017 (1:123/75)

Ä [20] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 20 of 158
 From : Jim Cushing                         1:123/75        .îí 19 .þí 95 16:28
 To   : James Walton
 Subj : Re: Star Wars
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 JW> Unfortunately, they can't possibly have the same impact as the
 JW> original movie. If for no other reason that there are too many people
 JW> who are seeped in the Star Wars legend.

 Disagree, George Lucas has complete control over Star Wars. On top of that
 consider all promotions we will see when the release date for the new movie
 gets closer. I would venture to say that it will probably break all the
 current records for box office receipts.



... Miracle Software, Inc. 'If it works, it's a Miracle!'
--- Blue Wave/RA v2.12 [NR]
 * Origin:  Weyr Galifrey - Memphis, TN  +1.901.685.0017 (1:123/75)

Ä [20] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 21 of 158
 From : Jim Cushing                         1:123/75        .pä 21 .þí 95 07:18
 To   : Brian Henderson
 Subj : Re: Babylon 5 (Pten)
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 BH> Considering that Paramount has made their name and fortune on Star
 BH> Trek,  something that Warner simply hasn't done, it is only
 BH> understandable.  Star Trek is Paramount's cash cow.

 Come on Brian! Paramount was successful before Star Trek and it will
 continue to be successful after the "cow" runs dry.

 BH> Very true. Now that B5 has been officially renewed for season three,
 BH> and will be receiving, from what I understand, a substantial increase
 BH> in  cash flow from Warner, we'll have to see what they do with it.

 I heard that B-5's budget was in danger of being cut. I know JMS was
 fighting it. This is one time I hope your correct.

 BH> Outside  of Star Trek, B5 is the only sci-fi show to have made it this
 BH> far in 20  years.

 Off the top of my head can you say Seaquest, Quantum Leap and Buck Rogers

... "Dammit, Jim. I'm a doctor, not a very good actor!"
--- Blue Wave/RA v2.12 [NR]
 * Origin:  Weyr Galifrey - Memphis, TN  +1.901.685.0017 (1:123/75)

Ä [20] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 22 of 158
 From : Jim Cushing                         1:123/75        .pä 21 .þí 95 10:42
 To   : David Mohorn
 Subj : Re: Highlander, The Movie
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 DM> If you would have watched the series pilot, you would have seen Connor
 DM> McCleod.  He has also appeared in another episode too.

 Lambert only TV series appearance was in the pilot episode. He has never
 appeared again.

... I am Jadzia of Borg. No, Julian, I will not assimilate you...
--- Blue Wave/RA v2.12 [NR]
 * Origin:  Weyr Galifrey - Memphis, TN  +1.901.685.0017 (1:123/75)

Ä [20] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 23 of 158
 From : Jim Cushing                         1:123/75        .pä 21 .þí 95 10:42
 To   : Starwolf
 Subj : Re: Sliders Continuity
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 St> An unconfirmed comment from a friend has it that SLIDERS _has_ been
 St> renewed, but only for mid-season.  It seems to change from week to
 St> week.

 In the June 20 USA Today it has been confirmed that FOX will be bringing
 SLIDERS at mid-season. The article also stated that FOX has ordered 13
 episodes.

... "You're pretty pissed, aren't you Dave?" HAL 9000
--- Blue Wave/RA v2.12 [NR]
 * Origin:  Weyr Galifrey - Memphis, TN  +1.901.685.0017 (1:123/75)

Ä [20] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 24 of 158
 From : Jeff Schlenker                      1:288/19        .pä 21 .þí 95 03:05
 To   : Jack Butler
 Subj : Re: Batman Forever Review
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

-=> Jack Butler was overheard speaking to All <=-



 JB> Well, the first thing that comes to mind when I think of this
 JB> movie is Good Stuff.  I'm still a fan of the original (less so the

     <<<<<  Review Bobbited >>>>>

 JB> was a comic book on film.

Good review and I must say I agree, except I did like the first one
better than Forever.  I pretty much hated the second one.  I did notice
one annoying characteristic to this Batman... He sure had a knack for
rushing headlong into obvious traps.  But an otherwise excellent movie
was Batman Forever.

Later,
Jeff

... Die Hard Forever
___ TagDude 0.87 [Unregistered]

---

Jeffrey A. Schlenker               jeff.schlenker@lake-city.com
--- < Sig-It > v3.00 by Brandon S. Bell

--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12
 * Origin: LakeCity BBS * V34/4 Gigs Watertown SD 605 886-0849 (1:288/19)

Ä [20] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 25 of 158
 From : Dan Kachoogian                      1:107/953       .òp 20 .þí 95 06:09
 To   : James Walton
 Subj : Re: Garden State Science Fiction Conspiracy Update
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
*** Quoting James Walton to Dan Kachoogian ***

JW>
JW> I am interested in seeing how you keep people interested in
JW> coming back yo
JW> meetings, etc.  In our club we bring in speakers sometimes, such
JW> as space
JW> shuttle scientists, writers, etc.  No program appeals to
JW> everybody, so there
JW> are some members who never attend meetings. (But they complain
JW> anyway.)
JW>
JW> We even put on a Covention every year.  (Such fun.)
JW>

Sheer force of personality. :-)

                                                       -Dan

---
 * Origin: The Juice Bar BBS (908) 298-0764 (1:107/953)

Ä [20] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 26 of 158
 From : Heather Hood                        1:107/953       .òp 20 .þí 95 16:28
 To   : Dan Kachoogian
 Subj : Re: Garden State Science Fiction Conspiracy Update
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
*** Quoting Dan Kachoogian to James Walton ***

DK> JW> I am interested in seeing how you keep people interested in
DK> JW> coming back yo
DK> JW> meetings, etc.  In our club we bring in speakers sometimes,
DK> Sheer force of personality. :-)

      And the strip twister doesn't hurt either! :)  (oh wait that's a different
meeting...:)  )

          Heather

---
 * Origin: The Juice Bar BBS (908) 298-0764 (1:107/953)

Ä [20] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 27 of 158
 From : ROBERT LIDGREN                      1:134/10        .pä 21 .þí 95 17:13
 To   : ALL
 Subj : SLIDERS RENEWED??
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
The following is a cross-post from the Earth 2 Mailing list but it is about
SLIDERS.
According to this post, SLIDERS has been renewed.  Can anyone else confirm
hearing this news from an independent source??

----------------------------------------------
BEGINNING OF CROSS-POST
----------------------------------------------

From: Clay Williams <klaatu@host.yab.com>
To: Earth2 Mailing List <earth2@stargame.org>
Subject: E2- We Can "2" If Sliders Can!
Date: Mon, 19 Jun 1995 02:09:02 -0700 (MST)
Message-ID: <Pine.LNX.3.91.950619020657.10839M-100000@host.yab.com>

Sliders has been given a reprieve.  If they can do it, we can "2"!
- Clay Williams
  Earth 2:  Eden Advance
  Earth 2 will be right back.
---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Sun, 18 Jun 1995 04:42:23 -0700
Newgroups: rec.arts.sf.tv
Subject: (fwd) SLIDERS RETURNS TO FOX MID-SEASON!!!

From: tv <tv@mca.com>
Newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.tv
Subject: SLIDERS RETURNS TO FOX MID-SEASON!!!
Date: 16 Jun 1995 21:44:25 GMT
Organization: MCA/Universal

I have just been informed by a very official source that Sliders
will return to FOX with ALL NEW EPISODES sometime in early 1996.
We are starting production of the new shows in October and are
very excited about the return of Sliders!!!  Universal Television
thanks everyone for the tremendous show of support for Sliders on
the net and the role it played in getting Sliders renewed!

For the latest info, you can check out the official Sliders web
site at http://www.mca.com/tv/sliders

Thanks again!!
----------------------------------------------
END OF CROSS-POST
----------------------------------------------

Cheers,

Robert Lidgren
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Ä [20] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 28 of 158
 From : ROBERT LIDGREN                      1:134/10        .pä 21 .þí 95 17:16
 To   : ALL
 Subj : CHRIS CARTER ??
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Is the Chris Carter we see so often here on SFFAN THE Chris Carter from The
X-Files?  Or, is it even SOMETIMES that Chris Carter.  Keep the howling and
derision to a minimum if this is read as an idiot question, eh??
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Ä [20] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 29 of 158
 From : ROBERT LIDGREN                      1:134/10        .pä 21 .þí 95 17:22
 To   : MARK JONES
 Subj : EARTH 2 CROSS POST
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
-> RL> : After every E2 episode, I write a nice E-mail letter to NBC RL> :
-> thanking them for airing it. I also ask them to please continue RL> : to
-> show reruns through the summer... and also ask them to RL> : reconsider
-> their cancellation. It doesn't hurt to "make nice" RL> : and perhaps we will
-> AT LEAST get our reruns, continue to build RL> : our viewer base, and
-> attract more folks to our letter writing RL> : campaign. Here are the NBC
-> addresses (peebeeone is Preston RL> : Beckman, FYI):

MARK JONES QUOTE:
I'm not an Earth2 fan, but this seems like a very good idea.
And it would be worthwhile for *anyone* on this echo who likes a particular
program and hopes to see it renewed.  Although, as someone else pointed out
in another message, a handwritten letter on paper might have more "weight"
with these guys.



Hi Mark!  It seemed like a good idea to me too.

You are very correct!  A "real" letter sent with a stamp just might be more
weighty in terms of the regard it is given if only because much more effort is
involved.


Robert Lidgren
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Ä [20] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 30 of 158
 From : ROBERT LIDGREN                      1:134/10        .pä 21 .þí 95 17:30
 To   : MARK JONES
 Subj : EARTH 2/SO LONG
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
-> On the other hand, some people really enjoy the dark visions of cyberpunk
-> fiction.  Or find that kind of future a lot more believable than the airy
-> utopian fiction of Star Trek.  It's a matter of taste, or of one's "sense of
-> life" (i.e., what you think life is really like when you get down to the
-> chewy nugat center--basically good, or essentially tragic).

I think your point is well taken.  Sure we do!  However, the Cyberpunk
tradition does point to extremes, as you point out here:

-> There's also the point that the milieu of cyberpunk isn't really
-> futuristic...except for the technology.  A world in which a tiny minority
-> live lives of unparallelled luxury, surrounded by obscene wealth, while the
-> vast majority spend their lives in perpetual poverty and living at the
-> sufferance of the Powers That Be....is essentially what life has been like
-> in most parts of the world throughout most of history.

In a world, as it is. There does seem to be a trend towards a permanent
underclass which is expanding.  What I'd like to see is stories about a future
world where there is LESS of the underclass (say, those who make less than
10.00 an hour) and an EXPANSION of jobs which takes skills and are more
rewarding.  The test of ANY CIVILIZATION, I would submit, is HOW WELL it treats
the poor and how much it works to ratchet UPWARD those at the low end.  Wealth,
per se, is not an arbitrary evil and needs to be spread around a bit more.

I'm no socialist nor a communist because those are poor ways to achieve social
justice but in science fiction, why not an entirely new form of democratic
political system wherein the economic "realities" are more humane??
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Ä [20] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 31 of 158
 From : ROBERT LIDGREN                      1:134/10        .pä 21 .þí 95 18:07
 To   : ALL
 Subj : SLIDERS FAQ EXTRACT
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
              THE LATEST ON SLIDERS --->  FROM THE FAQ


Well, if this baby HAS BEEN RENEWED, there are undoubtedly many out there who
have further interests in the show.  Here are a few extracts from the SLIDERS
FAQ (latest version).

If any of you fine fellow travellers in SFFAN would like me to post the WHOLE
Sliders FAQ,
send me a message here or at my internet address:

robert.lidgren@bbs.logicnet.com

----------------------
SLIDERS FAQ EXTRACT
----------------------

10. Where is Sliders Filmed?

   Sliders is primarily filmed in Vancouver, British Columbia, although a
   few establishing exterior shots have been filmed in San Francisco and
   on the University of California at Berkeley campus.

   Most studio work is done in Vancouver at the studio where M.A.N.T.I.S.
   was filmed.

12.3 USENET NEWSGROUPS:


     * alt.tv.sliders
     * alt.tv.sliders.creative
     * rec.arts.sf.tv
     * alt.history.what-if
     * alt.parallel.universes

  12.4 SLIDERS MAILING LIST:

     A Sliders discussion list has been created by Alicia Mowlai-Ashtiani
     (mowlaial@ucunix.san.uc.edu) for the purpose of discussing the
     series. Because a member of the Sliders production staff is expected
     to subscribe to this list, please do not post suggested or possible
     storylines or they may become the property of St. Clare
     Entertainment.

     To subscribe to this mailing list, send a message to the address
     majordomo@stargame.org and in the body of the message type
     "subscribe sliders" without the quotes and without your name.
13. Where do I send fan mail?

  13.1 FAN MAIL CAN BE SENT TO THE CAST AND CREW OF SLIDERS IN CARE OF ST.
  CLARE ENTERTAINMENT AT:

     St. Clare Entertainment
     Universal Studios
     Building 506-A
     100 Universal Plaza
     Universal City, CA 91608

  13.2 FAN MAIL TO FOX BROADCASTING TELLING THEM HOW MUCH YOU ENJOY
WATCHING
  SLIDERS EVERY WEEK CAN BE SENT TO:



     Mr. John Matoian
     Programming Executive
     Fox Broadcasting Company
     10201 West Pico Blvd
     Los Angeles, CA 90035

  13.3 FAN MAIL CAN ALSE BE SENT TO FOX BROADCASTING VIA E-MAIL AT:



     sliders@delphi.com


     _________________________________________________________________

14. Sliders News

  16 JUNE 1995

   Fox Broadcasting ordered thirteen new episodes of Sliders as a
   mid-season replacement. The new episodes will begin filming in October
   of 1995 with an expected air date of early 1996.

   Congratulations to everyone who took the time to tell Fox that you
   wanted to see more episodes of SLIDERS!

  1 JUNE 1995

   Fox announced that Sliders re-runs will be aired starting Sunday June
   25th at 7PM (6PM Central.) Repeats will continue until a new series,
   Space, takes over the timeslot in the fall. Fox also said "a
   decision on Sliders as a fall backup is still pending."

   This web page will be updated as more information becomes available.

15. Acknowledgements

   My thanks to the following people who, in one way or another, helped
make this a better FAQ:

     * Stewart M. Clamen (clamen@cs.cmu.edu)
     * Brian Eirik Coe (bcoe@trumpet.aix.calpoly.edu)
     * Ed Dravecky III (dsheldon@netcom.com)
     * Ford A. Thaxton (FordaT@aol.com)
     * Frank Garcia (fgarcia@direct.ca)
     * Mitch Gold (goldm@rpi.edu)
     * C. Daniel Kinser (70004.146@compuserve.com)
     * Tim Lucas (lucast@etsu.east-tenn-st.edu)
     * J. Brett Martinson (u9010521@muss.cis.mcmaster.ca)
     * Will Mengarini (seldon@eskimo.com)
     * David Playle (dplayle@ins.infonet.net)
     * PromoGuy (!) (kokh@ionet.net)
     * Scott W. Roby (roby@oswego.oswego.edu)
     * Stephen Sisk (sjsisk@islandnet.com)
     * Larry Trujillo (ltrujillo@cctr.umkc.edu)
     * Robert K. Weiss (rkweiss@aol.com)
       Yes, that Robert K. Weiss.
Thanks for everyone's comments, suggestions, and answers!


     _________________________________________________________________

   Copyright é 1995 by Ed Hall. All rights reserved.

   This FAQ may be posted to any USENET newsgroup, on-line service, or
   BBS as long as it is posted in its entirety and includes this
   copyright statement. This FAQ may not be distributed for financial
   gain. This FAQ may not be included in commercial collections or
   compilations without the express written permission of the author.

   Ed Hall (edhall@brillig.com)


--------------------------------------------------
END OF EXTRACT FROM SLIDERS FAQ
-------------------------------------------------

I didn't post the whole thing because I want some input first.  Hope Ed Hall
doesn't send his
inter-demensional droogs to my house with knuckle busters!!

Do CONTACT ME if you want more of this.  I am sensitive to what you like and
don't like.  This is one of the very best groups anywhere on the Fidonet or
Internet (believe me, I've done enough "comparison shopping" to know what's
good).

All the best,

Robert Lidgren

robert.lidgren@bbs.logicnet.com
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Ä [20] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 32 of 158
 From : ROBERT LIDGREN                      1:134/10        .pä 21 .þí 95 18:24
 To   : MARK JONES
 Subj : CYBERPUNK AND OUR FUTURE
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
IN YOUR MESSAGE TO ME YOU SAID:

In that sense, cyberpunk fiction could be considered *optimistic* in
that the underclass have greater access to information and tools
(including weapons) than they ever did in the past.  They have the
potential to either join TPTB, or to overthrow them.


REPLY:

I like this.  Your assessment of the POWER the underclass get from technology
was a twist on things I had only considered peripherally.  The nifty thing
about your whole message was that I could tell YOU'VE READ THE STUFF and
haven't JUST gleaned insights from TV and MOVIE Cyberpunk themes.

Neuromancer by William Gibson my now be a "classic" in the field but what is
also interesting is that Bill has decided to move on to other things.  Have you
ever seen an interview with him?  He's quite an interesting man, lean, funny
and a denizen of Vancouver, British Columbia too (yep, the very city where
X-Files and Sliders is filmed!!).  Being from Calgary, Canada myself, it feels
good that American producers, casts and other creative talent seem to enjoy
working in my country.  Too often we Canadaians feel inferior in terms of our
place in the world but it's great to see other appreciate us too.  It's always
been a struggle living right next door to the United States but, what the heck,
we try!  By the way, I'm not anti-American.  That is a dumb approach and
attitude.  I've travelled all over the States and in EVERY STATE I've met many
really terrific people with very similar goals, desires for the future and
concern for family and friends.

Legends of the Fall and The Unforgiven were both filmed just a few miles from
my house.  It really is beautiful country here and I sometimes forget just how
good it is.  The recent exchange rates have made Canada an EXCELLENT travel
destination for Americans.  If you travel here you can buy Canadian dollars for
about 70 cents.

Who knows, if you visit Vancouver this summer, you might just see them filming
an episode of X-Files!
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Ä [20] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 33 of 158
 From : ROBERT LIDGREN                      1:134/10        .åò 22 .þí 95 00:57
 To   : ALL
 Subj : EARTH 2 MAILING LIST DETA
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
I have been on the Earth2 Mailing list for a while and thought I should share
the following with you.  This is a cross-post from the mailing list itself. It
tells how to get on and how to get off the mailing list and also a copy of the
guidelines IS INCLUDED.

Be forewarned that when you subscribe, you can expect
MANY messages on Earth 2!!
-----------------------------------------------------------

On Mon, 19 Jun 1995, Robert Lidgren wrote:

> Hi there!  What is the command for subscribing to and unsubscribing from this
> list?  I lost my log entry for these commands and have several people beating
> down the door for both items.  I would very much appreciate your response to
> this request.

Robert,

To subscribe:  send e-mail to   majordomo@stargame.org
               in message put   subscribe earth2        <--- Exactly!

They will receive a how-to unsubscribe message that they should keep.
Many people get frustrated when they try to unsubscribe to the mailing
list and not the server.  Also they get the address wrong and use .com
and not .org .

To unsubscribe:  send e-mail to   majordomo@stargame.org
                 in message put   unsubscribe earth2 <your address>


Here's a copy of the instructions I received when I first subscribed:

Date: Mon, 22 May 1995 22:02:53 GMT
From: Majordomo@stargame.org
Subject: Welcome to earth2
Reply-To: Majordomo@stargame.org

--

Welcome to the earth2 mailing list!

If you ever want to remove yourself from this mailing list,
you can send mail to "Majordomo@stargame.org" with the following
command in the body of your email message:

    unsubscribe earth2 <your address>

Here's the general information for the list you've
subscribed to, in case you don't already have it:

This list, <earth2@stargame.org>, is the center for discussion
about the NBC television series EARTH 2....

Welcome to Earth 2!  Watch out for Terrians, don't get in Devon's
way, and remember, *this* Yale is *not* your average cyborg!

The list is *very* loosely moderated with only two *absolutely*
enforced rules...

1) *NO* flames!!!  We're going to disagree from time to time and
that's fine, but there's no need to get personal.  If you
disagree with someone's opinion, feel free to state your
own...keeping in mind that *opinions*, by their very nature,
can't be right or wrong...they just *are*.  And try to separate
the person from the opinion.  You may feel that a person's
*opinion* is stupid, but please don't call the *person*
stupid.  I'm sure that we're all mature enough to find a more
diplomatic way to say things.

Flaming will result in a warning from me.  Further infractions
will result in removal from the list.

and...

2) *NO* posting of copyrighted materials!!!! (unless you hav
permission, of course)  Believe me...it's not worth the trouble
it can cause.  Having been a victim of the _Star Trek:
Generations_ script fiasco...and subsequently Paramount, I can
personally attest to the fact that getting involved with
copyright violations can get nasty.  And I don't want this
list to end up on the cutting-edge of net-law.

Posting of copyrighted material will result in a *strong* warning
from me.  And, depending on the nature of the violation, possible
removal from the list *without* further infractions.  When in
doubt *ask* me.  If I say no...then don't post it.  If I say
yes...fine.  Then if there's any problem, it's on *my* head and
the list will be spared.

Those are the only two hard and fast rules.  Everything else is
sorta kinda flexible...but I always have the final say.

Try to stay on topic...but if you think about it, that covers a
lot of ground.  If you absolutely, positively *have* to post
something off topic, to insert an OBE2 (Obligatory Earth2
comment). On occasion, there may be something that you're so
excited about or a bit of personal news that you just can't
contain and you'll feel the irrisistable urge to post
it.  I hope that we'll all be friends, so we'll probably be
interested.  An OBE2 will help pacify those that *aren't*
interested. I'm sure that we can all think of something
thoughtful to say about the series at any given moment (I know
*I* can :-) ).  If a thread wanders off topic for *too* long,
I'll kill it...but I try to let them die a natural death
whenever possible.

If a thread gets beaten to death...I reserve the right to kill it
*after* a sufficient number of list members has complained to me
either on-list or privately (if you don't want to complain
on-list).  However, I'm not going to let any one person dictate
when a topical thread should be killed, myself included.

In short, I'll try to keep my hands off as much as
possible...just keep in mind that I'm always here.  But, hey!  I
wanna have fun too, so I'm gonna try to not make this feel like
work for myself (been there...done that...don't like it...)

Remember, if you have any problems, questions or concerns about
the list, feel free to contact me and I'll get back to you as
soon as possible.

Alicia
mowlaial@ucunix.san.uc.edu
Owner, EARTH2
owner-earth2@stargame.org

Now...back to your regularly scheduled welcome message :-)

To see who else is subscribed, send a message containing "who
earth2" in the message body to <majordomo@stargame.org>.

To see other lists available, send "lists" to majordomo.  There
are a number of E-mail roleplaying games available with
stargame.org related to all the many eras of Star Trek... and a
number of discussion lists, too.
pbmdev is about play-by-mail in general...
sg50 is the Stargame Coffee House... all are welcome to drop in
and chat!

----------------------------------------------------------------
END OF CROSS-POST
----------------------------------------------------------------

Cheers,

Robert Lidgren
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Ä [20] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 34 of 158
 From : ROBERT LIDGREN                      1:134/10        .åò 22 .þí 95 01:11
 To   : ALL
 Subj : CUDOS FOR THE SHAPEROS
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Hats off to the Shaperos, Nicolai and Kay, for this fine Fidonet group.  I've
been recruiting others to join in and commenting on the QUALITY of the
messages.  To tell you the truth, even one example gets the point across.
Compare the comments on, say, The X-Files here and those on the X-Files
interest group on the Internet.  SFFAN comments win hands down!

As far as I know, the Shaperos moderate this group and their great example
seems to embue the interactions with a sense of CLASS not often emulated
elsewhere.

Criticism is so EASY to shell out but once in a while I think it's good to give
credit where it is due!

Cheers,

Robert Lidgren

PS. No, they didn't pay me to say this (heh, heh).
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 Msg  : 35 of 158
 From : ROBERT LIDGREN                      1:134/10        .åò 22 .þí 95 01:16
 To   : PAUL WORLEY
 Subj : HARLAN ELLISON
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
-> Harlan is supposed to show up at DragonCon in July (Atlanta, GA) I'll try to
-> remember to ask him when I get up to him in the autograph line. Hope you can
-> wait 6 more weeks!!

Do fill me in on Harlan's appearance.  I've corresponded with him and his wife,
Susan Ellison, and read his books.  I haven't seen him live ever!

By the way, I received from Harlan this week my CD copy of his Palladin of the
Lost Hour.  It's a damn fine recording!! The liner notes are terrific.  By the
way, I've been waiting for this recording for more than 5 years!

If you want details about how to get the album, drop me a message.

Cheers,

Robert Lidgren
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Ä [20] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 36 of 158
 From : ROBERT LIDGREN                      1:134/10        .åò 22 .þí 95 01:30
 To   : FRANK EVA
 Subj : HARLAN ELLISON
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
-> NS>He was, in theory, working on a sequel to the Outer Limits episode,
-> NS>"DEMON WITH A GLASS HAND" entitled "DEMON ON THE RUN" for B5.  But I
-> NS>haven't heard anything about this lately (no news is good news?)
-> Or, he could just be stalling, like he did when he wrote City on the Edge of
-> Forever. Of course, you can't rush an artiste! :-)

I couldn't help but reply to your message to Nicolai Shapero.

I just received in the mail this week the CD recording of Harlan's Palladin of
the Lost Hour.  It really is excellent.

The liner notes booklet gives details about the various incarnation of the
story including that version on The Twilight Zone.  Originally, Harlan did not
want Danny Kaye to play the part.  In the role of Gaspar, he had a list of FOUR
choices:
Hume Cronyn
Bud Merideth
James Whitmore
Jack Gilford

He wrote the story from December 10th to December 12th 1984 (according to the
insert).

So, although Harlan may be notorious for delays, he is also capable of writing
stories with incredible power and lasting impact in a cery short time too.

By the way, if you want the CD or would like to join The Harlan Ellison Record
Collection, here is the address:

THE HARLAN ELLISON RECORD COLLECTION
P. O. BOX 55548
SHERMAN OAKS, CALIFORNIA
91413

Membership is just $8.00 (check or money order) and for that you get four
issues of The Rabbit Hole and access to recordings of Harlan's stories by the
author. Susan Ellison runs the business and she is an absolute delight!  Class
incarnate! He was very fortunate to have found such a terrific lady!

I've been on board since issue #1 of Rabbit Hole and find the material to be
rivetting.

One time I wrote a letter to Harlan via The Harlan Ellison Record Collection
commenting on one of his Asimov's Science Fiction columns.  He was kind enogh
to give me a phone call.

By the way, to get a pyrotechnic rise out of Harlan at a convention, ask how he
enjoyed working on the TV series "The Starlost."  Better stand back, though, as
the rejoined will be caustic but hellishly amusing too.

Cheers,

Robert Lidgren
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Ä [20] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 37 of 158
 From : Pamela Crossett                     1:325/118       .pä 21 .þí 95 01:13
 To   : Louis Keser
 Subj : Conner vs Duncan
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

>> "As close as I could figure out

Connor=Duncan.  I guessed they changed the name when it became a series.  If
you saw the first movie, Connor has had alot of ID (ex. Russel Nash)."

yes, Louis, it's true that connor had a lot of aliases, but he definitely is NOT
duncan.

i don't know how much you watch the series, but in the initial show, connor
appears WITH duncan, and their relationship is explained as the immortal
"mentor/mentee" relationship, similiar to what duncan eventually cultivates with
richie.

as a matter of fact, in a recent episode duncan says "I don't know what i would
have done (or been like - i actually don't remember the quote word for word) if
connor macleod hadn't found me" - again emphasizing that they are two separate
charactors - so that at least, in some ways, the series attempts to thread the
two storylines together.

although, as has been discussed earlier on this echo, they have divirged quite a
bit, and now it is confusing to try and make the two storylines converge as if
they take place in the same universe/reality zone.

so you like connor's character better? of is it the actor christopher lambert
that you prefer?

i admit that my stronger attraction to adrian paul may well be because the
television series is longer playing that the three movies put together, and
since i like the mythos so much, i want as much as i can get.

actually, my overall favorite immortal was sean connery's rameriz (i know i
spelled that wrong - sorry).

good talking to you.

i hope i didn't come off as "correcting," but thought i'd pass on what someone
had explained to me about the differences between the two charactor/actor(s).

seeYAaround,

Pam

--- Maximus/2 2.02
 * Origin: The Ozone Layer, Williston, VT. (802) 862-5058 (1:325/118)

Ä [20] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 38 of 158
 From : Pamela Crossett                     1:325/118       .pä 21 .þí 95 01:21
 To   : Mark Bennett
 Subj : Re: spoilers
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
thanks for the info on spoiler alerts Mark.

I won't make that mistake again.

my apologies to all to whom i inadvertantly gave away crucial plot information.

one more question - i recently read that 2 1/2 weeks is the longest an episode
takes to air coast to coast, so after that time, spoilers are no longer
necessary?

is that an accurate piece of info?

should i worry about overseas people who may not get the latest shows as soon as
we do? (on the other hand, perhaps they get them sooner?)

thanks for your help.

i'm a self-confessed newbie.

pam

--- Maximus/2 2.02
 * Origin: The Ozone Layer, Williston, VT. (802) 862-5058 (1:325/118)

Ä [20] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 39 of 158
 From : Dean Sweatman                       1:396/89        .pä 21 .þí 95 22:25
 To   : Rumble
 Subj : Re: seaQuest
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 -=> Quoting Rumble to All <=-

 Ru> Lets get some more seaQuest messeges going here OK!

Lets not but tell everyone that we did.<G>
Fiawol




... ERROR - Unable to insert witty tagline.  HUMOR.SYS corrupted.
--- FMail/386 1.0g
 * Origin: The Black Boar Inn BBS NOLA (504)-885-3960 28.8 V.34 (1:396/89)

Ä [20] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 40 of 158
 From : Phill Ash                           1:275/160       .åò 22 .þí 95 08:12
 To   : Starwolf
 Subj : Re: L.I.S.
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE 1.1+
Referring to the amazing lack of "tech" in Lost in Space:

>I was looking for a piece of neutronium to chew on when I heard that
>one.

        Did you read any of the comic series (Innovation)?  They were
        co-written by Billy Mumy and reclaimed the "dark" feel that was
        lost after the first pilot.  Dr Smith is portrayed as a total
        ba$tard who's reprogrammed Robot, Don & Judy are shacking-up
        (much to the chagrin of the Elder Robinsons) and the TV series
        is written-off as "Penny's Diary".

        The "Penny's Diary" angle was a surprising justification for the
        non-tech outlook of the series.  It seems that Penny, who didn't
        have much of a scientific background, would "embellish" the
        stories so that they made sense to her.  The comic went so far
        as to tell a story in "split-mode".  The even pages told the
        story of the J2's encounter with highly magnetic asteroids,
        while the odd pages (Penny's Diary) told of "living asteroids"
        that thought the J2 was their "mommy" and wanted to suck the
        reactors dry (I think that was written before the ST:TNG ep
        "Galaxy's Child").

        Rumor has it that a "Lost in Space" feature film is in the
        works.  If it's anything like the comic...catch it! <G>


Your pal:  PhlAsh
... Carefully avoid anything said to be NEATO!
---
 * PhlAshMail 1.0 *
~~~ ReneWave v1.00.wb2 (unregistered)
--- Smile :)
 * Origin: * The Beast's Lair * (804)425-1618 * Va Beach VA * (1:275/160)

Ä [20] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 41 of 158
 From : Steven Wesen                        1:271/236       .åò 22 .þí 95 09:08
 To   : Brian Reepen
 Subj : Re: Internet
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE 1.11+
Yes try the Dominion which is sponsered by the Sci- Fi channel just use a yahoo
search to find it.

Steve(Merlyn)

--- GEcho 1.11+
 * Origin: Time Machine Node 2, Newport News, VA 595-9383 (1:271/236)

Ä [20] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 42 of 158
 From : Bruce Baugh                         1:105/290.50    .åò 22 .þí 95 09:08
 To   : Mark Jones
 Subj : ST: The Next Generation
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On (17 Jun 95) Mark Jones wrote to Jeff Hancock...

 MJ> I won't even go into what becomes possible if you can not
 MJ> only store someone's complete physical pattern on disk, but
 MJ> can actually call up the FILE EDITOR....

You might want to browse through Frank Tipler's THE PHYSICS OF
IMMORTALITY. He's got reasonably hard data on what sort of computing
power it would take to, for example, recreate every logically
possible human being - it turns out that there are about ten to the
power of (ten followed by seventy zeroes) of us. He's also got a
proposed mechanism to generate the power necessary to do things like
that - collapsing universes don't collapse smoothly and equally in
all dimensions at once, and the shear of one dimension collapsing
faster than the others generates what amounts to infinite power.

Great fun.

... Colt: the original point and click interface

--- PPoint 1.92
 * Origin: The Home Trepanning Club (1:105/290.50)

Ä [20] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 43 of 158
 From : Bruce Baugh                         1:105/290.50    .åò 22 .þí 95 09:11
 To   : Rob Harwood
 Subj : Roger Zelazny, 1937-1995
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On (19 Jun 95) Rob Harwood wrote to Bruce Baugh...

 RH> He inspired me with his attention to detail when necessary
 RH> and utter dismissal of it when it was not necessary. He has
 RH> influenced my writing and I certainly will miss him!

And clearly you're not alone - I've seen very moving tributes from
folks including Neil Gaiman, George Alec Effinger, and Barbara
Hambly.

One of the things Zelazny did in all his best work is draw in _all_
the senses. Look through the first few Amber books, or "For a Breath
I Tarry", or "A Rose for Ecclesiastes", or "He Who Shapes", and
you'll find not just sights and sounds but smells and tastes and
textures.

... This is not a pipe... |

--- PPoint 1.92
 * Origin: The Home Trepanning Club (1:105/290.50)

Ä [20] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 44 of 158
 From : Sean McCormick                      1:226/1330      .åò 22 .þí 95 17:30
 To   : Nicolai Shapero
 Subj : Msg 2 of 4 (Rules)
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
¦NS> forever.  I do not need variants on the Werner-beast on this echo!     ¦

ÔÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍ¾
    Who was the werner beast?
---
 þ MegaMail 2.10 #0:Y GWIR YN ERBYN BYD

 * Origin: The Lore Board - Mt. Vernon, Ohio - 1:226/1330 (1:226/1330)

Ä [20] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 45 of 158
 From : Paul Goverts                        1:2613/135      .ÿò 23 .þí 95 17:51
 To   : Kay Shapero
 Subj : Re: Sliders Continuity
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 -=> Quoting Kay Shapero to Jim Cushing <=-

 JC> In the June 20 USA Today it has been confirmed that FOX will be
 JC>bringing SLIDERS at mid-season. The article also stated that FOX has
 JC>ordered 13 episodes.

 KS> Goodie!

YES!  They had never given Sliders a chance before they took it off....

Paul

... OK Scotty, NOW!  Detonate and energize!  I mean.......
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12



--- QScan/PCB v1.17b / 01-0527
 * Origin: Wise BBS - Irondequoit, NY (1:2613/135)

Ä [20] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 46 of 158
 From : Frank Eva                           1:154/750       .óá 24 .þí 95 09:06
 To   : David Johnston
 Subj : Star Trek
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: FastEcho 1.42.bA 8060

DJ>It is not warmongering to strengthen ones defenses on a frontier
DJ>which has a declared enemy.  Quite the contrary, failure to do so
DJ>invites invasion.

True but defense and offense are entirely different things, and
Roddenberry never envisioned humans as constantly on the offensive,
militarily (like the Klingons). I'm sure this is why he discouraged
shows featuring armed conflict...

---
 * Origin: *YOPS ]I[* 3.1 GIG * RA/FD/FE RADist * Milwaukee, WI (1:154/750)

Ä [20] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 47 of 158
 From : Frank Eva                           1:154/750       .óá 24 .þí 95 09:46
 To   : Mark Jones
 Subj : Accusations
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: FastEcho 1.42.bA 8060

MJ>[Mini-Review of B5 Novel #2, ACCUSATIONS:  I enjoyed this novel much
MJ>more than the first one.  And I had no trouble believing that this
MJ>story could have been filmed as an episode or two of the series.  It
MJ>worked quite well, I thought.]

Sure, as a novel it worked OK, but as a sci-fi novel, it left a lot to
be desired. This was just more cloak and dagger, with the B5 characters
tacked on...

---
 * Origin: *YOPS ]I[* 3.1 GIG * RA/FD/FE RADist * Milwaukee, WI (1:154/750)

Ä [20] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 48 of 158
 From : Kay Shapero                         1:102/524       .åò 22 .þí 95 23:20
 To   : Tom Huber
 Subj : What if
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Jun 21 19:44>, Tom Huber (1:115/477) wrote to Kay Shapero:

 TH>Seriously, it sounds like a worthwhile book. I haven't found all
 TH>the UBS in our new area, so I may put out a FUBS request on SF and see
 TH>what they can churn up.

STEEL BEACH was recently released in pb (I've got a hardback that someone made
the unbelievable goof of putting into the library book sale for $1) so you
shouldn't need a UBS - you'll find it in the new ones too. (Sorry, you can't
have MY copy... :->)

--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [20] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 49 of 158
 From : Kay Shapero                         1:102/524       .åò 22 .þí 95 23:22
 To   : Jim Cushing
 Subj : Re: Sliders Continuity
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Jun 21 10:42>, Jim Cushing (1:123/75) wrote to Starwolf:

 JC> In the June 20 USA Today it has been confirmed that FOX will be
 JC>bringing SLIDERS at mid-season. The article also stated that FOX has
 JC>ordered 13 episodes.

Goodie!

--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [20] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 50 of 158
 From : Kay Shapero                         1:102/524       .åò 22 .þí 95 23:23
 To   : ROBERT LIDGREN
 Subj : CUDOS FOR THE SHAPEROS
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Jun 22 01:11>, ROBERT LIDGREN (1:134/10) wrote to ALL:

 RL>As far as I know, the Shaperos moderate this group and their
 RL>great example

(Blush)  Thanks - however be it noted that the Shapero who moderates this group
is Nicolai.  I just serve as resident noodge... :->

--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [20] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 51 of 158
 From : Joel Jessup                         1:2613/105      .åò 22 .þí 95 23:42
 To   : Brian Reepen
 Subj : Internet
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 BR>     Would any one out there know any good Si-Fi spots on the Internet?

On the World Wide Web, there's the Science Fiction Channel's website called The
Dominion.  I believe the location is http:/www/sci-fi.com
Also there are a couple of web sites for Trek related items and for Babylon 5
and Star Wars.
JGJ

--- Maximus 2.00
 * Origin: Desert Heat BBS (1:2613/105)

Ä [20] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 52 of 158
 From : Walter Sorrell                      1:3637/77       .pä 21 .þí 95 15:21
 To   : Anyone
 Subj : Bionic What?
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
     Hey does anyone remember a cartoon series called something like the
Bionic Five or Bionic Six?  The leaders were a middle aged couple Father
One,who had enhanced hearing and sight, and Mother One, with
artificially enhanced telepathic abilities.  The rest of the team were
"adopted children."
   Sport One was a young man, about sixteen, who had a magnetic hand and
could turn any sport equipment into a weapon.
  There was a young woman, also sixteen, with blonde hair; she could run
pretty fast (about Mach One) and had speakers on her shoulders that
could shatter steel.
     There was an Asian guy, about seventeen, who seemingly has mastered
every martial still practiced, with help from his bionic implants.  I
can't remember his code name.
    Also a black guy, about twenty or so, called IQ.  I have no idea now
what his specialty was.
  I think there was another but I could be wrong.
   The team had a pet-like robot that looked like a mechanical gorilla
that took care to house when they away on missions.  I think it was
called Squeeky or something cute like that.  I remember it would do
almost anything to eat aluminum cans.
  The whole team had normal lives, the kids went to school, had friends
and the usual teenage angst from time to time.  They all lived in normal
looking suburban residence.
  Everyone of the members were "rebuilt" by a doctor but I can not
remember what his name was.
  Anyway, the team led normal lives until the doctor would contact them.
When they wanted to go from normal to full power they would slam a ring
on one hand into the other arm, somewhere around the wrist and twist
their hand.
  The principle villains was a "mad doctor" named Scarab, that was
always on a quest to become immortal.  The were his lackeys but I can
not remember what they were called.  There was one guy who usually wore
a purple suit and he liked to though bombs with a lacrosse-like
attachment on his bionic arm.  There was the usual attractive evil
female but she had horrible scars on one side of her face, that she
usually concealed with her hair or a mask.  And of course, there was the
usual extremely stupid but strong lackey that was barely smart enough to
remember to breathe.
  This may seem very long to you but I needed to write this all down the
first time to make sure that someone could identify the name of this
show and what eventually became of the show.  I used to watch this show
as much as possible but the superstation that carried it dropped it
suddenly and I eventually forgot that it existed.
  Though it is not terribly important that I find out, I would
appreciate any help.


* CmpQwk #UNREG* UNREGISTERED EVALUATION COPY
---
--- WcToss for WildCat!  V1.8 [UnReg]
 * Origin: Coles Kingdom BBS 615-657-5708 14.4KBPS! (1:3637/77)

Ä [20] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 53 of 158
 From : Chris Carter                        1:105/302.23    .pä 21 .þí 95 03:19
 To   : Patrick Thoms
 Subj : OLD YELLOW EYES/WHERE CAN
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 RL> Can anyone tell me of a source for the recording Brett Spiner
 RL> (DATA) did cal "OLD YELLOW EYES?"

 PT> I have the tape. Good music too!

If y'all want some real fun, and have World Wide Web capability, try
the Captain Kirk Sing-a-long page, at:

     http://www.ama.caltech.edu/~mrm/kirk.html

It has wavefile snippets of songs from an album William Shatner did
some years back.  The page also has links to some sounds from Brent
Spiner's music.

Chris - carter@teleport.com


--- cPoint v2.17/FreeWare
 * Origin: Carter's Conspicuous Consumption (1:105/302.23)

Ä [20] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 54 of 158
 From : Mark Jones                          1:105/302.47    .îí 19 .þí 95 19:50
 To   : J Hulley-Miller
 Subj : Sliders - Bathroom? Wash
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On (15 Jun 95) J Hulley-Miller wrote to Frank Glover...

 JH> No to mention technical ones. It should be impossible to replicate
 JH> energy, Human brains require it. You could manufacture a lot of dead
 JH> bodies, but not crews.

If that were the case, you'd kill everyone who ever went through a
transporter.  Because the transporter is doing exactly what the
replicator does:  it disintegrates Riker at point A, creating a
"transporter trace" in the process.  The transporter trace is used to
guide the recreation of Riker at the far end.

Which is all that a replicator does, except that it recreates things
from patterns scanned in earlier.


--- PPoint 1.78
 * Origin: HQ of World Domination, Inc. (1:105/302.47)

Ä [20] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 55 of 158
 From : Mark Jones                          1:105/302.47    .òp 20 .þí 95 18:23
 To   : Ecarey
 Subj : B5 FRANCHISING
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On (15 Jun 95) Ecarey wrote to Frank Eva...

 FE > This is an UNfortunate consequence of there being a 5 year story
 FE > > "arc", which is something trek never had. Trek novelists had
 FE > > leeway to make good original sci-fi stories. All we get from B5
 FE > > novelists is 'cloak and dagger' and 'murder-they-wrote'.
 FE >
 E > This isn't what the people who've written Trek novels say [and I know
 E > one of them extremely well, and others more casually.  The Trek novel
 E > writers all say that the restrictions are extreme, often silly, and
 E > subject to change without notice.

Don't forget also that the lack of scientific continuity in Trek makes
it easy to write an "original" novel--because no consequences need to
be considered.  So what if the novel postulates a fantastic new
technology, or an amazing new use of an old one...it won't make any
difference in the long run.

B5 novels, on the other hand, are apparently held a different (I'd say
tighter, but that gets into value judgments, so..."different")
standard.  They may not be able to advance the plot--but apparently,
they won't be allowed to work at cross-purposes either.

[Mini-Review of B5 Novel #2, ACCUSATIONS:  I enjoyed this novel much
more than the first one.  And I had no trouble believing that this
story could have been filmed as an episode or two of the series.  It
worked quite well, I thought.]


--- PPoint 1.78
 * Origin: HQ of World Domination, Inc. (1:105/302.47)

Ä [20] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 56 of 158
 From : Mark Jones                          1:105/302.47    .òp 20 .þí 95 18:35
 To   : Jack Butler
 Subj : Batman Forever Review
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On (18 Jun 95) Jack Butler wrote to All...

 JB>      I may, or may not, discuss spoiler material in this review.

   Ditto for me.

 JB>      Everybody else, the elevator is going down.

   Or as Hudson says in ALIENS, "We're on an express elevator to hell.
 Going DOWN!"























 JB>      Not that they do too much character development in the third
 JB> film... <G> But still, it felt good. Finally we see a Batman who
 JB> is Billy-Badass on the hand-to-hand arena, just like he is
 JB> supposed to be. This Batman uses his head for more than a target,
 JB> too. Not that Burton's Batman was written as an idiot, but we get
 JB> to *see* him using his noodle in this one.

   I didn't think Bats exactly stunk at hand-to-hand in the first
film, for that matter.  He beat up quite a few gun/sword/club wielding
thugs, after all.

 JB>      So, action... great.  Character usage... great... except for Dick
 JB> Grayson/Robin. Granted, he only comes in half-way through the
 JB> film, and isn't the star of the show anyway, but geez, guys. He
 JB> pops in and out like a piece of bread in a toaster oven. Either
 JB> decide to use him or *don't*.

   I must confess that I was appalled by the news that they were
introducing The Boy Hostage.
   I was very pleasantly surprised to discover that I *liked* this
Robin.  And that I was pleased to see him presented as a capable
character in his own right, and able to take dramatic action when he
needed to (such as getting into the silver closet...).

 JB>      Tommy Lee Jones does a really great job as Two-Face.  He actually
 JB> stands up to Jim Carrey as the Riddler. The aura of boiling
 JB> insanity covered by a thin veneer of absolute psychosis works
 JB> well. (I loved that one scene during the attack on Wayne Manor...
 JB> Two-Face flipping the coin, over and over, exasperated because it
 JB> keeps coming up heads.)

   And I appreciated our first sight of him, when he flips a coin to
decide the fate of the security guard.  And, yes... he does abide by
the coin toss...more or less.  But that doesn't mean he's going to let
the guy get away unharmed.

   I didn't care for the Riddler here.  As you say, it was a rehash of
Carrey's stand-up act in many ways.  And just too over-the-top for my
tastes.

 JB>      One last thing:  what the heck is up with this "kill the
 JB> supervillain" nonsense! First, the Joker, then the Penguin, then
 JB> Two-Face! Hello, McFly! Ever consider that you may want to bring
 JB> one or two of them back for a sequel?

   Well, yes, the Joker is definitely dead, dead, dead.
   The Penguin is dead, dead, dead.
   But Catwoman?  She's alive--I'd bet my comic book collection on it.
   Two-Face was last seen sliding into watery oblivion...but he'd
hardly be the first villain to escape from "certain death".
   And the Riddler is alive, albeit insane and confined to Arkham
Asylum.  But so what?  He was insane BEFORE he was captured.  It means
nothing.  He could make a come-back.

   So by my count, three of the five villains from the movies are
potential sequel-fodder.

   MY main complaint with the film is that they've reused the same
subplot for the THIRD time in as many movies.  The Babe Du Jour and
Bats are attracted to one another; Babe discovers Batman's Secret
Identity; Babe Du Jour mysteriously vanishes before the next movie.
Isn't there *something* else they could do here?  Anything?


--- PPoint 1.78
 * Origin: HQ of World Domination, Inc. (1:105/302.47)

Ä [20] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 57 of 158
 From : Mark Jones                          1:105/302.47    .òp 20 .þí 95 18:49
 To   : Jack Butler
 Subj : Kilmer as Batman
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On (18 Jun 95) Jack Butler wrote to All...

 JB>      Warner Brothers has already announced that both Val Kilmer and
 JB> Chris O'Donnell have signed to make further Batman films after
 JB> this one. Nicole Kiddman has also stated that she would welcome
 JB> the opportunity to do another one.

   And despite my initial fears, I'd welcome Chris O'Donnell's
appearance as Robin again.  He was much, much better than I feared
he'd be (not that I doubted the actor--I'd never heard of him.  I
feared what they'd do with the character of Robin).
   If Nicole Kidman stuck around, I wouldn't mind either.  She was
certainly delectable to look at.  And having her character *stay* for
the next movie would be a welcome change from the "Babe Du Jour"
routine they've employed so far.

 JB>      The only problem I can see is a villain shortage.  Right quick
 JB> they are going to run out of "recognizable" villains for Batman
 JB> to fight. All the villains who became "name recognizable" by way
 JB> of the 60's TV show (the Joker, Penguin, Riddler, Catwoman) have
 JB> been done (and most have been killed off in the movies). So, that

   Well, Joker and Penguin are definitely deaders.
   But Catwoman is still around, I believe.  (Or could easily be,
because we NEVER SAW THE BODY...a cardinal rule in comics and pulp
fiction.)
   As for Riddler and Two-Face...well, I won't say since it might
spoil the movie.  But I don't think the well is quite as near dry as
you seem to think.

 JB>      Still, I have some ideas.  I've long since retired the original
 JB> wish list I posted oh so many years ago, but Dustin Hoffman as
 JB> The Mad Hatter, Helena Bonham Carter as Poison Ivy, Alan Rickman
 JB> as Maxie Zeus, Wesley Snipes as the Black Spider, Lance Henrikson
 JB> as Ra's Al Ghul, Michael Biehn as Deadshot, and Patrick Stewart
 JB> as Mister Zero would all do as villains. Also, I think John
 JB> Goodman would do well as The Ventriloquist.

   Well, here's where we separate the men from the boys, or the real
Batman fans from the hangers-on.  I recognize only three of these
supervillains' names (Mad Hatter, Ra's Al Ghul, and Deadshot).  Which
is probably bad news for the marketing department at Warner/DC, since
I was heavy into superhero comics at one time.  But as Batman wasn't
one of my regular fixes, I don't know who a lot of these guys/gals
are.


--- PPoint 1.78
 * Origin: HQ of World Domination, Inc. (1:105/302.47)

Ä [20] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 58 of 158
 From : Mark Jones                          1:105/302.47    .òp 20 .þí 95 18:59
 To   : Jack Butler
 Subj : B5 Ripoff: Ds9
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On (18 Jun 95) Jack Butler wrote to Brian Henderson...

 JB> ... "The Death Star will be in range in 5 minutes."

   Alfred Hitchcock occasionally spoke of a concept called
"refrigerator logic".  By which he meant, a plot element that would
hang together long enough for the movie goer to enjoy the film, get
home, open the refrigerator for a midnight snack and *then* think,
"Hey, wait a minute..."  If the plot held together that long, he
considered it a success, even if later you could pick it apart.

   Your tagline reminded me of the most durable piece of refrigerator
logic I know of.
   It took me fourteen years to think, "Hey, wait a minute...."

   At the climax of STAR WARS, the Death Star is closing on the rebel
base on the moon of the gas giant.  The fighters are sent out in a
desperate attempt to destroy the Death Star before it gets into
position to destroy the moon.  And they succeed.
   Unfortunately, there are two possible solutions that would have
enabled the Death Star to win, had they been employed.
   1.  The Death Star is capable of hyperdrive.  Why not *flit* to the
other side of the planet?
   2.  Why go AROUND the gas giant, when they could simply BLOW IT UP?
 Even if the explosion didn't destroy the moon, a second shot would
have been easily made.

   Ah well, refrigerator logic....


--- PPoint 1.78
 * Origin: HQ of World Domination, Inc. (1:105/302.47)

Ä [20] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 59 of 158
 From : Frank Eva                           1:154/750       .ÿò 23 .þí 95 07:13
 To   : Ecarey
 Subj : B5 RERUNS???
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: FastEcho 1.42.bA 8060

E>FE>While UPN is showing NEW episodes of Legend, and USA is showing NEW
E>FE>episodes of Tekwar! Go figure! :-)

E>But Tekwar is cancelled, and Legend is cancelled with some slight hope
E>that they might get a second chance as a mid-season replacement.
E>Those \are\ throwaway episodes, as far as USA and UPN are concerned.

E>Do we really want BABYLON 5 to be treated the way the \cancelled\
E>shows are being treated? I know \I\ don't.:)

I see no REAL evidence that TekWar and Legend have been cancelled. When
I read about it in TV Guide, that's when I'll believe it.

In the meantime, I think PTEN should show the last 4 episodes... THIS
SEASON. They aren't treating B5 like a "cancelled" show by doing so.
They're simply finishing the season the way it was scheduled to be
finished. To allow PTEN the EXCUSE you and others have provided is
nothing more than trying to put a good "spin" on the wrong decision!

---
 * Origin: *YOPS ]I[* 3.1 GIG * RA/FD/FE RADist * Milwaukee, WI (1:154/750)

Ä [20] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 60 of 158
 From : Frank Eva                           1:154/750       .ÿò 23 .þí 95 07:13
 To   : Ecarey
 Subj : B5 TALK
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: FastEcho 1.42.bA 8060
Elisabeth Carey again tries to put a good "spin" on the decision to
delay the airing of 4 season 2 episodes until season 3...

E>The \dedicated\ fans would see these episodes, but B5 can't survive on
E>just the most fanatical of its fans, any more than any other series.

You don't make any sense! If B5 just barely picked up enough new viewers
this season to get renewed, how is saving 4 episodes going to guarantee
that the show will attract MANY new viewers next season? What is PTEN
going to do this November... announce during B5 advertisements... "We
saved 4 episodes for you from last year! These will get you caught up on
the B5 saga and make up for the 40 you missed!" Yeah, right... If they
could miss 40 episodes and make up for it in 1/10th of the time, what
would that say about B5? How about... it ain't that deep? Yeah, that'll
really encourage new viewers to watch.

E>Show four first-run episodes in July, when the more casual fans WON'T
E>be watching, and you damage their ability to pick up the thread when
E>the new season premieres, and increase the likelihood that they'll
E>stop watching.

Baloney! New viewers are already ticked off about the B5 story arc.
Saving 4 episodes isn't going to fill in that much of the gap. After
all, "And Now For A Word" was supposed to have accomplished this,
already.

E>And if too many "casual" fans stop watching, the dedicated B5 fan is
E>going to be out of luck, because the series will be cancelled.

With the way PTEN affiliates have been handling B5 (our local affiliate
just switched it AGAIN; now it's supposed to be on Saturday night
instead of Friday...) CASUAL fans are pretty much out of the loop,
anyway. IMO, PTEN should not take such drastic measures and perhaps
alienate LOYAL fans in the process!

---
 * Origin: *YOPS ]I[* 3.1 GIG * RA/FD/FE RADist * Milwaukee, WI (1:154/750)

Ä [20] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 61 of 158
 From : Frank Eva                           1:154/750       .ÿò 23 .þí 95 07:13
 To   : Gamin Davis
 Subj : Voyager Nose Diving?
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: FastEcho 1.42.bA 8060

GD>FE>DJ>So, you don't like Paris and Kim?

GD>FE>Not particularly... But not enough to stop watching. I am also not
GD>FE>enamored with Torres, Tuvok, Janeway, Kes, and Neelix, either...

GD>    So why are you watching Voyager then? Special effects?

Well, right now I'm NOT watching... because I've seen every episode and
they're in reruns. Next season I'll be watching to see if they learned
anything from industry pundits who have given the show less than glowing
marks. Perhaps the entire next season will wind up being as good as this
season's first 9 episodes, and not just an extension of the lackluster
final few episodes...

---
 * Origin: *YOPS ]I[* 3.1 GIG * RA/FD/FE RADist * Milwaukee, WI (1:154/750)

Ä [20] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 62 of 158
 From : Frank Eva                           1:154/750       .ÿò 23 .þí 95 07:13
 To   : Mark Jones
 Subj : Torres in Faces
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: FastEcho 1.42.bA 8060

MJ>I think Torres *could* have dealt with her problem during subsequent
MJ>episodes, even without being the focus of the storyline.  They spend
MJ>time "developing character" on the characters anyhow.  They could
MJ>spend the time on Torres as she deals with the radical change she's
MJ>undergone.

Yeah! Instead of her solving upteen technical problems with more inane
technobabble, this would be a refreshing change of pace. Just imagine, a
sentient creature dealing with a real-life problem! What a unique
concept for post-TOS Star Trek! :-)

MJ>(For that matter, I'd like to see the repercussions of Neelix and Kes
MJ>each having only one lung.  I was rather shocked by that episode--in
MJ>that they *didn't* wave a magic wand over them.  They had to settle
MJ>for a less than ideal solution, because restoring Neelix to his
MJ>original state simply wasn't possible.  This was so unlike Trek that
MJ>I was impressed.  Unfortunately, that too has been glossed over.  Now
MJ>its as if it never happened.)

So "glossed over", I had completely forgotten how the problem had been
solved! Neelix and Kes... with just 1 lung each... You'd think there
would be some complications down the road...

--- CMPQwk 1.42-R2 #145 ---
Am I ignorant or apathetic? I don't know and I don't care!

---
 * Origin: *YOPS ]I[* 3.1 GIG * RA/FD/FE RADist * Milwaukee, WI (1:154/750)

Ä [20] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 63 of 158
 From : Frank Eva                           1:154/750       .ÿò 23 .þí 95 07:13
 To   : Robert Lidgren
 Subj : HARLAN ELLISON
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: FastEcho 1.42.bA 8060

RL>He wrote the story from December 10th to December 12th 1984
RL>(according to the insert).

RL>So, although Harlan may be notorious for delays, he is also capable
RL>of writing stories with incredible power and lasting impact in a very
RL>short time too.

Well, that's kind of what William Shatner's Star Trek memories said...
that his problem is not the actual writing, but motivating himself to
get started on a new project.

RL>I've been on board since issue #1 of Rabbit Hole and find the
RL>material to be rivetting.

To be perfectly honest, I have a collection of Ellison's stories (it's a
hard-bound book almost 3 inches thick), but I have never been able to
get into his work. I don't read much sci-fi any more, but I was an avid
reader of Arthur C. Clarke at one time. Up until recently, I read just
about every ST:TOS novel I could get my hands on. However, the series
has taken a definite downturn, with less innovation and more reliance on
murder and political intrigue. So, I haven't read a ST:TOS novel in
quite a long time. Since I found the first 2 Babylon 5 novels totally
disappointing, I'm hoping the X-Files series will be better. I have the
second in the series (they were sold-out of the first...)

Have you seen any of Ellison's "editorials" on the Sci-Fi Channel? In
his last tirade, he gave a scathing denunciation against trek fiction.
He said that sci-fi fans were missing out on excellent original science
fiction because publishers won't bring in stuff from outside the USA.

---
 * Origin: *YOPS ]I[* 3.1 GIG * RA/FD/FE RADist * Milwaukee, WI (1:154/750)

Ä [20] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 64 of 158
 From : David Johnston                      1:342/14        .åò 22 .þí 95 00:40
 To   : Jeff Young
 Subj : Re: Babylon5
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
-> Babylon 5 is pretty da**ed important and as for the size, I really
-> can't say for sure.  As for the planet it is orbiting around, I
-> believe that it is Minbar.

You are incorrect.  It's actually a uninhabited (OK, one inhabitant)
world which is actually a camouflouged engine of ultimate destruction.

--- PCBoard (R) v15.21/100
 * Origin: Freddy's Place - Edm. AB - 28.8K (403) 456-4241 (1:342/14)

Ä [20] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 65 of 158
 From : Gloria Darcy                        1:124/8107      .åò 22 .þí 95 20:18
 To   : Brian Kuhnel
 Subj : Re: Highlander Scedule
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Okay, Brian, I think we missed some episodes or something, because I had no idea
Ann knew that Duncan was immortal!  Never did I see an episode where she found
out about it and neither did I see an episode where it was told that Ann is
pregnant!  I am just baffled!  When on earth did all of this happen?

Gloria


--- Maximus/2 2.02
 * Origin: Palindrome WriterNet [Fiction&Non] (1:124/8107)

Ä [20] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 66 of 158
 From : Gloria Darcy                        1:124/8107      .åò 22 .þí 95 20:20
 To   : John Kahane
 Subj : Earth 2/So Long
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Hi JOhn!  I don't know how to quote online on this board, so I am writing in
response to our conversation about Earth 2.  I hope that another network does
pick up this show eventually.  It was pretty good.

Gloria


--- Maximus/2 2.02
 * Origin: Palindrome WriterNet [Fiction&Non] (1:124/8107)

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 Msg  : 67 of 158
 From : Gloria Darcy                        1:124/8107      .åò 22 .þí 95 20:26
 To   : Rumble
 Subj : B5 VS ST              1/2
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Stephen Hawking is the correct spelling.  He just visited our University here in
Dallas, Texas where I work.  He was quite amazing ,from what I understand.  I
was unable to attend.

Gloria Darcy


--- Maximus/2 2.02
 * Origin: Palindrome WriterNet [Fiction&Non] (1:124/8107)

Ä [20] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 68 of 158
 From : Gloria Darcy                        1:124/8107      .åò 22 .þí 95 20:27
 To   : Frank Eva
 Subj : Hairdo Award
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Re: Bun of Steel Janeway.  Funny, real funny!  Do you think it looks that bad?

Gloria


--- Maximus/2 2.02
 * Origin: Palindrome WriterNet [Fiction&Non] (1:124/8107)

Ä [20] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 69 of 158
 From : Star Hawk                           1:362/708.6     .îí 19 .þí 95 15:58
 To   : Frank Glover
 Subj : Re: Torres in Faces
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
From my perch I saw this come out of the gravity well from Frank Glover:

  [> Mark Jones [> After all, why spend most of your life in a starship
  [> risking death by accident, attack or simple failure of systems that
  [> aren't being maintained properly (because they *can't* be) when
  [> you'll only get back home after 70 years anyhow?

  [> Frank Glover [> ...and, as you say, Voyager may have to do the
  [> whole 70 year trip.)

     You're both forgetting that the 70 year figure is if they travel in a
straight line back to Federation space at _sustained_maximum_warp_!  No
Starfleet ship can maintain maximum warp for that length of time; at best, they
can run at maximum warp for a couple of days; after which they have to give the
engines downtime to allow them the time to recover from that strain.

     So my WEG estimate is that the journey will take a minimum of a century, a
maximum of 180 years, and mean time of 140 years [in round numbers, and this
assumes no shortcut route found].  Practically speaking, very few [excluding the
Doctor, of course <g>], if any, of the original crew will be alive [if they have
to travel the long way] by the time the ship reaches Federation space, the ship
will end up being crewed by a second, third, or even fourth generation, the
descendants of the original crew.

                                        Star Hawk, the EchoTrickster

--- MacWoof Eval:23Dec93
 * Origin: William Bull Hedrick @ Hawk Haven's Orbital Point (1:362/708.6)

Ä [20] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 70 of 158
 From : Star Hawk                           1:362/708.6     .îí 19 .þí 95 18:51
 To   : J Hulley-Miller
 Subj : OPEN INVITATION
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
From my perch I saw this come out of the gravity well from J Hulley-Miller:

  [> For Dr. Who: http://www.phlab.missouri.edu/c621052_www/Dr.Who/

     Except that i just tried that URL [at 6:30PM EDT 6/19] and was told that it
doesn't exist.

                                        Star Hawk, the EchoTrickster

--- MacWoof Eval:23Dec93
 * Origin: William Bull Hedrick @ Hawk Haven's Orbital Point (1:362/708.6)

Ä [20] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 71 of 158
 From : Star Hawk                           1:362/708.6     .pä 21 .þí 95 19:47
 To   : Jack Butler
 Subj : Batman Forever Review
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

--> Note:

Moved (from: BAD_MSGS) by Peg Smarekar using timEd.

From my perch I saw this come out of the gravity well from Jack Butler:

  [> Jack Butler [> (I loved that one scene during the attack on Wayne
  [> Manor... Two-Face flipping the coin, over and over, exasperated
  [> because it keeps coming up heads.)

     Uhh, Jack?  Two-Face's coin is a double-headed one, so it always comes up
heads.  The difference between the two sides is scarred and unscarred.

                                        Star Hawk, the EchoTrickster

--- MacWoof Eval:23Dec93
 * Origin: William Bull Hedrick @ Hawk Haven's Orbital Point (1:362/708.6)

Ä [20] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 72 of 158
 From : Rumble                              1:163/436       .åò 22 .þí 95 10:04
 To   : Mark Jones
 Subj : Federation Idiocy
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
The Aliens of the Trek univers are much more sneaky than Babylon 5's. You see on
Babylon 5 we know what all of them are going to do, jsut attack. But on DSN we
have no idea exactly what the Dominion are going to do with the Alpha quadrent.



--- Maximus 2.02
 * Origin: Coven's Den (613)746-3584=650+ Echoes & 5+ Gigs (1:163/436)

Ä [20] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 73 of 158
 From : Rumble                              1:163/436       .åò 22 .þí 95 12:03
 To   : Dexter Fernandez
 Subj : Re: Star Trek
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
The Feds will finaly come to their senses and wipe out the Dominion. The Alpha
quadrent has to band together to destroy the Gamma Quadrent. Like mount Defiant
style phasers on Warbirds.

--- Maximus 2.02
 * Origin: Coven's Den (613)746-3584=650+ Echoes & 5+ Gigs (1:163/436)

Ä [20] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 74 of 158
 From : John Kahane                         1:163/198.5     .åò 22 .þí 95 16:16
 To   : All
 Subj : Temporarily Lost SFFAN
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
     Well, the board off which I point has lost a whole batch of mail that came
through the mailer for this echo through problems from the Hub.  Or some such
explanation...that's what the sysop around here told me.  So, as a result I've
missed two or three days worth of mail in this area.

     If anyone had anything that was of real importance to say to me, please
repost it...or send it netmail.  Thanks.

     John
.....
You don't fool me, 'cause I know what you feel.

--- GoldED/2 2.42.G0614
 * Origin: JohnK's OS/2Warp Point - Ottawa, Ontario (1:163/198.5)

Ä [20] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 75 of 158
 From : John Kahane                         1:163/198.5     .åò 22 .þí 95 16:28
 To   : Myra I Fox
 Subj : BABYLON 5 (PTEN)
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
In a message of <Saturday June 17 1995 05:22>, Myra I Fox scribed:

 JK>> That is not true information.  The negotiations for the
 JK>> renewal of B5 had a lot to do with individual stations,
 JK>> policies concerning re-runs, and other stuff.  While the
 JK>> series could have been cancelled, true, there were a *lot*
 JK>> of people who fought to keep it on the air.

 MIF> I like hearing that!  B5 is one of the few things I watch
 MIF> anymore and it is good to know that there are others who
 MIF> like it enough to fight to see the entire cycle of the show.

     One of the people fighting for the series was JMS himself.  Granted that
he couldn't take the fight to the show the way a lot of the fans could (by
writing letters and so on), but he did what he could on the nets as far as I can
tell.  It's good to know that there is justice in the world of syndicated
television, and that we'll be seeing the third-fifth of the story this coming
November. :)

 JK>> .....
 JK>> I hold a cup of wisdom, but there is nothing within.

 MIF> ... The usefulness of the cup is the space within.
 MIF> ... How can you taste my wine if you don't first empty your
 MIF> cup?

     Not bad, but I'm thinking of Kate Bush. :)

     John
.....
So when you look into the sun, see all the pleasures nearly won.

--- GoldED/2 2.42.G0614
 * Origin: JohnK's OS/2Warp Point - Ottawa, Ontario (1:163/198.5)

Ä [20] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 76 of 158
 From : John Kahane                         1:163/198.5     .åò 22 .þí 95 16:32
 To   : Jeff Young
 Subj : BABYLON 5 Thought
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Sunday June 18 1995 22:49>, Jeff Young wrote the following to Seth Horne:

 JY> Babylon 5 is pretty da**ed important and as for the size, I
 JY> really can't say for sure.  As for the planet it is orbiting
 JY> around, I believe that it is Minbar.

     The station does not orbit the planet Minbar, it orbits the planet Epsilon
3.  Minbar is the home world of Ambassador Delenn of the Minbari Federation.

     John
.....
Counting lambs, counting sheep, we will fall into sleep.

--- GoldED/2 2.42.G0614
 * Origin: JohnK's OS/2Warp Point - Ottawa, Ontario (1:163/198.5)

Ä [20] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 77 of 158
 From : John Kahane                         1:163/198.5     .åò 22 .þí 95 17:09
 To   : Ecarey
 Subj : B5 TALK
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Saturday June 17 1995 10:50>, Ecarey wrote the following to Frank Eva:

 E> The  "loyal fans" ought to care a bit more about the fact that
 E> PTEN, which  \must\ make a profit if it's to continue showing
 E> ANY shows, now consider the four remaining B5 episodes of this
 E> season to be too \valuable\ to waste in July.

     Yep, this is something that's been pointed out on the nets, and while most
of the loyal fans seem to appreciate the fact that PTEN now views these episodes
as valuable, the fans don't seem to get it for the most part.  I think that it's
heartening.

     John
.....
And your wise men don't know how it feels to be thick as a brick.

--- GoldED/2 2.42.G0614
 * Origin: JohnK's OS/2Warp Point - Ottawa, Ontario (1:163/198.5)

Ä [20] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 78 of 158
 From : Starwolf                            1:163/214       .ÿò 23 .þí 95 01:45
 To   : Jim Cushing
 Subj : Sliders Continuity?
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
13 episodes?  That's good news indeed.  Thanks for the info.


--- Maximus 2.01wb
 * Origin: Land of Ill Repute (1:163/214)

Ä [20] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 79 of 158
 From : Starwolf                            1:163/214       .ÿò 23 .þí 95 01:46
 To   : Bruce Baugh
 Subj : Bear truths
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 BB> According to both JMS and PAD, actually, the spacing the bear was
 BB> JMS. So was the moment of perfect beauty.

I should be interested to find out if either were KNIGHT RIDER fans.  In one
episode, there's an electronic toy which is a talking teddy bear.  A very
OBNOXIOUS, talking teddy bear.  (GOOD KNIGHT'S WORK(?)  At the end of the
episode, Micheal and KITT, fed up at the thing, use KITT's ejection seat to get
rid of the thing.  The last scene is of the bear flying up, through the air, out
of the car.  Coincidence?


--- Maximus 2.01wb
 * Origin: Land of Ill Repute (1:163/214)

Ä [20] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 80 of 158
 From : Phill Ash                           1:275/160       .ÿò 23 .þí 95 08:49
 To   : Jack Bulter
 Subj : Highlander 2&3 on video
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE 1.1+
While at Blockbuster the other day, I noticed "Director's Cuts" of
Highlander 2 & 3....
I asked a friend about 2 and he said that the story is "smoothed over"
and all the Zeist nonsense has been eliminated.
What can you add to this?
        D'ya know anything about H3(DC)?


Your pal:  PhlAsh
---
 þ PhlAshMail 1.0 þ [tap..tap].. is this thing ON??
~~~ ReneWave v1.00.wb2 (unregistered)
--- Smile :)
 * Origin: * The Beast's Lair * (804)425-1618 * Va Beach VA * (1:275/160)

Ä [20] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 81 of 158
 From : Steven Wesen                        1:271/236       .ÿò 23 .þí 95 09:52
 To   : Tony Trujillo
 Subj : Re: Kilmer as Batman
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE 1.11+
The Scarcrow was shown in a small moment at the end of Batman Forever.

--- GEcho 1.11+
 * Origin: Time Machine Node 2, Newport News, VA 595-9383 (1:271/236)

Ä [20] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 82 of 158
 From : John Kahane                         1:163/198.5     .ÿò 23 .þí 95 10:58
 To   : Jeff Hancock
 Subj : Plot Point
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
In a message of <Monday June 19 1995 21:14>, Jeff Hancock scribed:

 JH> Did anyone suggest opening jump points within structures or
 JH> planets (or stars...) to JMS?

     Not as far as I know, Jeff... and with good reason.  JMS has said
repeatedly that he will not participate on echoes and in places where folks are
discussing plots, because once that happens he can't use a plot that he might
have been working on if someone suggests it to him.  The reason behind this is
that he doesn't want to open himself up to lawsuits and the like from folks who
might claim that Joe stole an idea of theirs.  Still, it's not a bad idea for a
plot...or at least a story hook.  (But in some ways, it does sound awfully STAR
TREKish, doesn' it?)

     John
.....
The poet and the painter, casting shadows on the water...

--- GoldED/2 2.42.G0614
 * Origin: The Point Away From Home (1:163/198.5)

Ä [20] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 83 of 158
 From : Pamela Crossett                     1:325/118       .ÿò 23 .þí 95 11:00
 To   : Gloria Darcy
 Subj : HighLander, The Series
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 GD> I think it's just disgusting that your channel is going to drop
 GD> Highlander.  Let us know how things turn out if you decide to pursue
 GD> your plans to contact the Highlander producers, etc.

Gloria,

what is this all about? who cancelled highlander?

 GD> Thank God!  We absolutely have a Highlander withdrawal
 GD> panic attack if we can't see it once a week!

i agree here, i must have my weekly fix, even if it's just a repeat!

seeYA

pam

___
 This copy of Freddie 1.2.5 is being evaluated.

--- Maximus/2 2.02
 * Origin: The Ozone Layer, Williston, VT. (802) 862-5058 (1:325/118)

Ä [20] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 84 of 158
 From : John Kahane                         1:163/198.5     .ÿò 23 .þí 95 11:03
 To   : Jack Butler
 Subj : B5 Comic Down
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Tuesday June 20 1995 16:54>, Jack Butler wrote the following to Brian
Henderson:

 JB>      <Chortle>  You simply *must* be joking.  Warner Brothers
 JB> is a division of Warner Communications, which is an overbody
 JB> which directly controls all arms of the company, including
 JB> Warner Brothers films, WBN, PTEN, and, incidentally, DC Comics
 JB> (what a surprise that they are doing the B5 Comic...)

     Yeah, but the B5 comic will be coming to an end with the December issue of
the comic.  The only reason given by DC for this cancellation of the B5 comic is
internal politics.  *sigh*

     John
.....
I take my place with the Lord of the hills.

--- GoldED/2 2.42.G0614
 * Origin: The Point Away From Home (1:163/198.5)

Ä [20] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 85 of 158
 From : John Kahane                         1:163/198.5     .ÿò 23 .þí 95 11:05
 To   : Bruce Baugh
 Subj : Roger Zelazny, 1937-1995
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
In a message of <Tuesday June 20 1995 08:22>, Bruce Baugh scribed:

 JK>> Zelazny was one of my favourite writers, and to hear of his
 JK>> death has made this day somewhat bleaker.  My condolences to
 JK>> Roger Zelazny's family on their loss.  May Zelazny's spirit
 JK>> walk the patterns of Amber for eternity.

 BB> It's been interesting to see the response of the sf community,
 BB> writers and readers, to Zelazny's death. _Nobody_ who ever
 BB> met him seems to have a bad word for him. He is universally
 BB> praised as courteous, gracious, patient, and altogether
 BB> gentlemanly.

     I only met Roger Zelazny once, and that was at a convention that I
attended some six years ago or so.  Zelazny was one of the kindest, warmest, and
personable people that I'd had the pleasure of meeting.  I've rather enjoyed all
of the Zelazny fiction that I've read in the past, and his loss to us as an sf
and fantasy writer will be overshadowed only by our loss of a true gentleman.

     John
.....
Draw the lace and black curtains and shut out the whole truth.

--- GoldED/2 2.42.G0614
 * Origin: The Point Away From Home (1:163/198.5)

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 Msg  : 86 of 158
 From : John Kahane                         1:163/198.5     .ÿò 23 .þí 95 11:09
 To   : Mark Jones
 Subj : Franklin's Ego Thing
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Saturday June 17 1995 13:24>, Mark Jones wrote the following to Jeff
Hancock:

 JH>> Well, yes, but... Well, when Biggs talked about the dying
 JH>> Narns, he said "you see God reflected in their eyes", not
 JH>> "you see the face of God reflected"... Different doctor I
 JH>> know, but ... I see your point, but I tend to think that he
 JH>> might not have said that if he didn't think he saw anything
 JH>> resembling a face.

 MJ> If I were a cynic (which, of course, I'm not...), I'd say
 MJ> that when the doctors looks into the eyes of the dying Narn
 MJ> and sees God reflected in them, he's seeing *himself* reflected
 MJ> there.  And he sees God because he has an ego of gargantuan
 MJ> proportions.  (Insert "I am the God, *I* am the God!" rant
 MJ> here.)

     Frankly, I think that you may be partially right about Dr. Stephen
Franklin here.  "Confessions and Lamentations" made a strong case for this, but
also pointed out that it was Franklin's belief in his religion (Foundationism or
some such) as his basis for this belief.  Otoh, there is the episode from the
first season, "Believers," where Franklin and Sinclair had the whole debate of
whether doctors are gods and their ability to cure and heal and their feeling
that it's their responsibility to heal the patient, no matter what his/her/its
beliefs about the matter.  That could have just been Franklin's religious
beliefs coming out in the early going, as well.

     John
.....
The Christmas spirit is not what you drink.

--- GoldED/2 2.42.G0614
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 Msg  : 87 of 158
 From : John Kahane                         1:163/198.5     .ÿò 23 .þí 95 11:23
 To   : Rumble
 Subj : Star Trek
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Thursday June 22 1995 12:03>, Rumble wrote the following to Dexter
Fernandez:

 R> The Feds will finaly come to their senses and wipe out the
 R> Dominion. The Alpha quadrent has to band together to destroy
 R> the AGamma Quadrent. Like mount Defiant style phasers on
 R> Warbirds.

     Like, NOT!  The Federation is going to be up to its ears in problems,
judging from what Piller and Berman have been saying.  It seems the Federation
will have a bit more on its mind than just the Dominion - they'll have to deal
with the end of the Federation/Klingon peace treaty!

     Gee, it sounds like the folks at ST: DSN are about to bring a war into the
storyline...  I wonder where they got the idea from? :)

     John
.....
As the ice did cling onto his beard, with screaming agony.

--- GoldED/2 2.42.G0614
 * Origin: The Point Away From Home (1:163/198.5)

Ä [20] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 88 of 158
 From : Bill Hedrick                        1:282/26        .ÿò 23 .þí 95 15:28
 To   : David Johnston
 Subj : Star Trek
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
In a message dated 06-21-95 DAVID JOHNSTON wrote to FRANK EVA:

 DJ> -> DJ>If he didn't want his concept associated with war-mongering, he
-> DJ>shouldn't have put the Klingons in there.  For that matter, he
-> DJ>probably should have set his series on a little unarmed exploratory
-> DJ>ship as opposed to a big battle wagon.

-> Every story needs protagonists, but IMO, GR never envisioned "us"
-> becoming equally militaristic...

 DJ> It is not warmongering to strengthen ones defenses on a frontier
 DJ> which has a declared enemy.  Quite the contrary, failure to do so
 DJ> invites invasion.

Being 43 I have a bit of perspective here, even though "my" war (Vietnam) was
not an example of this, GR's war was: "The only way evil may prosper is for
good men to do nothing."
He saw the results of appeasement and lack of readiness to defend oneself.
This is a violent world/universe and there are only two peaceful states: The
grave after being killed by your enemy and the peace derived from an adequte
defense. I fear we now have been without a real threat for so long that most
young Americans don't know this...


Ciao,
  BILL

 -> Alice4Mac 2.5d3 E QWK Eval:27Dec94

--- RA 1.11+/GEcho 1.02+
 * Origin: Sci-Fi BBS * Rosemount, MN * HST/DS * (612)423-7358 (1:282/26)

Ä [20] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 89 of 158
 From : ROBERT LIDGREN                      1:134/10        .ÿò 23 .þí 95 20:38
 To   : FRANK EVA
 Subj : HARLAN ELLISON
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
-> Have you seen any of Ellison's "editorials" on the Sci-Fi Channel? In his
-> last tirade, he gave a scathing denunciation against trek fiction. He said
-> that sci-fi fans were missing out on excellent original science fiction
-> because publishers won't bring in stuff from outside the USA.

Well Frank, no worries!  Some people hate Ellison and his work.  I think he
writes very well and his fiction isn't strictly science fiction it's
speculative fiction.

Unfortunately, I can't get the Sci-Fi Channel here in Canada so I am very
envious!  Do fill me in on Harlan's tirades though.  What programs does this
channel offer?

If getting non-U.S. authors to a wide audience in the U.S. is true then it's a
real shame.  I often find that reading authors from OUTSIDE North America is an
enriching experience.  I also find that travelling "off continent" opens up
ones eyes and thinking in ways that you can never really replicate when you
don't travel.  So far I've been to Europe three times and really enjoyed
myself.  Travelling to the Greek Islands and throughout Britain was quite a
culture shock but in many ways I found that there are "other" ways to live that
are pretty exciting too.  The truth is that Americans never really have nearly
the interest in other countries to the DEGREE that other countries have this
insatiable fascination with America.  I happen to really enjoy travelling in
the U.S.  Why?  Because I like the PEOPLE I have met.  Americans have PLENTY to
be proud of and to be THANKFUL for.
--- PCBoard 15.2
 * Origin: 32 lines 40 Gig BBS, Realtime InterNet SLIP (403)299-9900 (1:134/10)

Ä [20] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 90 of 158
 From : ROBERT LIDGREN                      1:134/10        .ÿò 23 .þí 95 20:42
 To   : KAY SHAPERO
 Subj : CUDOS FOR THE SHAPEROS
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
-> RL>As far as I know, the Shaperos moderate this group and their RL>great
-> example
-> (Blush)  Thanks - however be it noted that the Shapero who moderates this
-> group is Nicolai.  I just serve as resident noodge... :->

Thanks for the clarification.  However, I still want you to accept the cudos
too.  Why do you think we are so impressed with this Fidonet Echo?  It's
because people like you make it a great place to hang out.  Besides, I am tired
of the whinning and idiot put-downs I see in so many other areas.  Here, people
spar about IDEAS and that's what makes it a joy to join in.  I thinbk that
Frank Eva is one heck of a positive contributor too!  And he's funny to boot!
--- PCBoard 15.2
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Ä [20] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 91 of 158
 From : Jack Butler                         1:363/309       .åò 22 .þí 95 06:09
 To   : Kevin Ahearn
 Subj : Kilmer as Batman
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 Quoth Kevin Ahearn, "Nevermore".

 KA> How 'bout Tim Curry as the Scarecrow?

     Not thin enough.

     Jack Butler



... "Silence!  I've had enough of this wowdy wabble webel behaviour."
--- FMail 0.98a
 * Origin: Forethought BBS -=- Orlando FL -=- 407-277-7530 (1:363/309)

Ä [20] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 92 of 158
 From : Jack Butler                         1:363/309       .åò 22 .þí 95 06:11
 To   : Marc Zingarelli
 Subj : Kilmer as Batman
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 Quoth Marc Zingarelli, "Nevermore".

 MZ> But you forgot Mr Freeze?  And the rest of the motley cast.  I do like
 MZ> your  suggestions by the way.  Or how about a remake of the original
 MZ> batman movie  where all the villains got together?

     How 'bout let's not.  Mister Freeze is Mr. Zero in the comic books.
I also figure Lance Henrikson would be a good Ra's al-Ghul.

     Jack Butler



... "Zero, my hero... How wonderful you are!"
--- FMail 0.98a
 * Origin: Forethought BBS -=- Orlando FL -=- 407-277-7530 (1:363/309)

Ä [20] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 93 of 158
 From : Jack Butler                         1:363/309       .åò 22 .þí 95 06:16
 To   : ROBERT LIDGREN
 Subj : B5 RIPOFF: DS9
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 Quoth ROBERT LIDGREN, "Nevermore".

 RL> Well done Jack!  It's fine to criticize ..Trek.  However, when anyone
 RL> stereotypes hundreds of thousands like this it demonstrates a certain
 RL> lack of analysis and common sense.  The idea that "Trekkies" (cute but
 RL> pretty useless term) only support Star Trek incarnations flies in the
 RL> face of the barest rudiments of logic.

     I'm even willing to bet that if you took away all of the Trek fans
out of the "B5 fan" crowd, you'd have few people left indeed.  The rather
nonsensical idea (one which Mr. Henderson apparently believes wholeheartedly,
apparently) that being a fan of the one show somehow "disqualifies" you from
being a fan of the other... I don't know who first came up with this little
"gem", but it's dumb.

     Jack Butler



... Can you yell "yIHmey!" in a crowded Klingon restaurant?
--- FMail 0.98a
 * Origin: Forethought BBS -=- Orlando FL -=- 407-277-7530 (1:363/309)

Ä [20] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 94 of 158
 From : Jack Butler                         1:363/309       .åò 22 .þí 95 06:57
 To   : Dwight T. Fidler
 Subj : Highlander, The Movie
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 Quoth Dwight T. Fidler, "Nevermore".

 DTF> Ah But In The Movie HIGHLANDER THE GATHERING The Two Of Them Meet!!!
 DTF> It Came Out Before The Nonexistant One There... But After The
 DTF> First And Original (best) One!!!  It Was Based On The Series!
 DTF> Most Rental Places I've Seen Have It But I've Never Seen it For
 DTF> Sale...

 <...>

 DTF> HIGHLANDER                     I
 DTF> HIGHLANDER: the gathering
 DTF> HIGHLANDER: the sorcerer       III
 DTF> HIGHLANDER: the series

     Okay, time for a little explanation:
     1.  Highlander:  The Gathering is *not* a "Highlander Movie".  It was,
and is, two episodes taken from the series (specifically "The Gathering",
which was the pilot episode, and "Revenge is Sweet", which was the fourth
episode of the series) and put together on a videotape.  They are not a
movie.  They are not a movie.  They are not a movie.
     As Nicolai says, what I say three times is true.

     Also for the record, Highlande II:  The Sickening came out before the
television series.

     Jack Butler
     Highlander Guru



... "You gonna turn off the tape or shoot me with the .45?" -- MacLeod
--- FMail 0.98a
 * Origin: Forethought BBS -=- Orlando FL -=- 407-277-7530 (1:363/309)

Ä [20] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 95 of 158
 From : Jack Butler                         1:363/309       .åò 22 .þí 95 06:58
 To   : Dwight T. Fidler
 Subj : Immortal List 1
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 Quoth Dwight T. Fidler, "Nevermore".

 DTF> Have You Seen Highlander III Yet?

     I'm the Highlander Guru.  I saw it three times before it was released
in general distribution.


     Jack Butler



... "The Eiffel Tower.  The world's biggest lightning rod." -- MacLeod
--- FMail 0.98a
 * Origin: Forethought BBS -=- Orlando FL -=- 407-277-7530 (1:363/309)

Ä [20] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 96 of 158
 From : Jack Butler                         1:363/309       .åò 22 .þí 95 07:00
 To   : David Mohorn
 Subj : Highlander, The Movie
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 Quoth David Mohorn, "Nevermore".

 DM> If you would have watched the series pilot, you would have seen Connor
 DM> McCleod.  He has also appeared in another episode too.

     No, he hasn't.  Christopher Lambert, as Connor MacLeod, has only
appeared in one episode:  "The Gathering".  He was *mentioned* by name only
in "The Prodigal", "The Watchers", "Alliance of Evil, Part 1", "They Also
Serve", and "Finale, Part 2", but did not make an appearance.

     Jack Butler





... "You can rest assured, I *will* find him..." -- Mako
--- FMail 0.98a
 * Origin: Forethought BBS -=- Orlando FL -=- 407-277-7530 (1:363/309)

Ä [20] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 97 of 158
 From : Jack Butler                         1:363/309       .åò 22 .þí 95 07:02
 To   : Starwolf
 Subj : The best?
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 Quoth Starwolf, "Nevermore".

 TH>So very, very true. What I find is that so many people want to claim
 TH>that Robert Heinlein is the "best" SF author of all time. I disagree,
 TH>and lay that title as Asimov's feet.

 St> What about the 'calssic' authors - Jules Vernes and Herbert George
 St> Wells?

     Were you here when some Trek fan said that it was obvious that Trek
was the best SF ever, since Jules Verne was a great SF writer, or something
like that?

     Jack Butler



... Good games are built on the shoulders of good players.
--- FMail 0.98a
 * Origin: Forethought BBS -=- Orlando FL -=- 407-277-7530 (1:363/309)

Ä [20] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 98 of 158
 From : Jack Butler                         1:363/309       .åò 22 .þí 95 17:33
 To   : Chad Schlenker
 Subj : Kilmer as Batman
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 Quoth Chad Schlenker, "Nevermore".

 CS> Plus the Riddler isn't dead... Who knows if they didn't kill him off
 CS> they may be planning to bring him back...

     Could be... though I wonder if doing so might not be seen as rehashing
old ground.

     Jack Butler



... Chad Schlenker, Jedi Knight.
--- FMail 0.98a
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Ä [20] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 99 of 158
 From : Chris Baugh                         1:105/290.5     .åò 22 .þí 95 17:46
 To   : Heather Hood
 Subj : Garden State Science Fiction Conspiracy Update
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On (20 Jun 95) Heather Hood wrote to Dan Kachoogian...

 HH>       And the strip twister doesn't hurt either! :)

Gee, the crew of the Enterprise only played poker once a week.  I
suppose that the younger officers on Voyager get bored more easily,
but I'm afraid I missed this episode.

--- PPoint 1.92
 * Origin: "Bother," said Pooh (1:105/290.5)

Ä [20] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 100 of 158
 From : Jack Butler                         1:363/309       .åò 22 .þí 95 17:47
 To   : Ecarey
 Subj : B5 VS ST
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 Quoth Ecarey, "Nevermore".

 Ec> In the two-parter about the Obsidian Order and the Tal Shayar falling
 Ec> for the Dominion bait and getting blown away, the Federation \knew\
 Ec> what was happening before Sisko reported, and had a fleet able to
 Ec> assemble near the wormhole "just in case" WITHIN TWENTY-FOUR HOURS.

 Ec> Now,  we KNOW Bajor just isn't that close to significant Federation
 Ec> territory  and forces - normally. That's a dedicated secret fleet,
 Ec> secretly based close enough to get to the wormhole or the Cardassian
 Ec> border near the wormhole \quickly\, but far enough back so that the
 Ec> Cardassians, the Romulans, and the Dominion won't easily detect it.

     <eyebrow raised>  I see we think along similar lines.  Have you ever
worked in the Intelligence field?


 Ec> I think we can safely assume that those dedicated warships for which
 Ec> the Defiant is the prototype HAVE been built. And why is this
 Ec> unreliable prototype out on the border where the Federation's most
 Ec> dangerous potential enemies can get an eyeful of it? So that they'll
 Ec> assume the project was a failure, of course.

     It also serves as a bit of a warning.  "See what this thing is capable
of, and its just a prototype".  Deterrance is a valid part of diplomacy.

     Jack Butler



... "I thought that love would last forever.  I was wrong." -- Auden
--- FMail 0.98a
 * Origin: Forethought BBS -=- Orlando FL -=- 407-277-7530 (1:363/309)

Ä [20] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 101 of 158
 From : Chris Baugh                         1:105/290.5     .åò 22 .þí 95 17:49
 To   : ROBERT LIDGREN
 Subj : EARTH 2/SO LONG
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On (21 Jun 95) ROBERT LIDGREN wrote to MARK JONES...

 RL> What I'd like to see is stories about a future world where
 RL> there is LESS of the underclass (say, those who make less than
 RL> 10.00 an hour) and an EXPANSION of jobs which takes skills and
 RL> are more rewarding.

You're in luck, Robert, someone made a TV series just for you.  One
of the premises is that, in the future, food, shelter and the other
necessities of life will be equally available to all through
convenient technology, so that mankind can explore the cosmos while
ever improving in bravery, diplomacy and the arts.  If you're lucky,
you might even be able to catch a rerun of this series.  It was
called Star Trek.

--- PPoint 1.92
 * Origin: "Bother," said Pooh (1:105/290.5)

Ä [20] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 102 of 158
 From : Chris Baugh                         1:105/290.5     .åò 22 .þí 95 18:13
 To   : Mark Jones
 Subj : replicated people?
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On (17 Jun 95) Mark Jones wrote to Jeff Hancock...

 MJ> They have had such problems. That's when they use the
 MJ> "transporter trace" to retrieve the poor sap. Which is partly
 MJ> why I find the "we can't replicate people" rule completely
 MJ> bogus. Ah well.

Mark, the transporter/replicator system CAN replicate people.

After the Sanctuary riots, things actually got much, much worse.

A small group of very wealthy individuals funded the original
replicator research projects, acidentally inventing the transporter
in the process.  When WWIII massively depopulated the Earth, this
group (those rich enough to get through anything) used replicator
technology to provide a large population of "their kind of people."
Before doing so, they modified the energy to matter conversion
process so that the energy stream was filtered, to remove two
attributes from anybody transported: first, the ability to reason
that the technology could replicate people (passing through a
Starfleet transporter simply "rewires" that portion of the brain
necessary for that operation); and second, the desire to act as an
individual when liberty might conflict with the continued existence
of a large number of mediocre people suitable for the beauracratic
class.  These modifications were designed into the basic circuitry
for the transporter system, and the circuit was later modified to
become the "bio-filter."  Before the repopulation project began, all
mentions, records, and plans of transporter technology that would
not perform this mental filtering were destroyed.  This explains
that blandly homogoenous attributes of Starfleet officers, and of
all Federation people who have ever been sent through a
Federation transporter.

During the Repopulation, history was rewritten - with forged
evidence and planted false memories - that the Sanctuary
Riots shocked the public at large into voting for a new Golden Age.

Picture the Earth remade in the image of the City Club of Portland,
New York's Upper East Side summer-at-the-Hamptons class, Swiss
bankers, and the CFR.  Pretty close to the Federation government,
eh?

Other people routinely use the transporter as an immortality machine
and a handy means of cloning.  However, as Starfleet personnel are
biologically incapable of understanding those concepts, their minds
interpret evidence of those activities as something else.  Sometimes
the concepts that are invented to explain these transporter
activites are ludicrous, but Federation personnel are as oblivious
to the logical inconsistencies in these stories as a color-blind
person is to the inappropriateness of their green and brown painting
of a sunset.

--- PPoint 1.92
 * Origin: "Bother," said Pooh (1:105/290.5)

Ä [20] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 103 of 158
 From : Paul Worley                         1:2601/515      .ÿò 23 .þí 95 01:21
 To   : Bruce Baugh
 Subj : Roger Zelazny, 1937-1995
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
20 Jun 95 08:22, Bruce Baugh wrote to John Kahane:

 BB> It's been interesting to see the response of the sf community,
 BB> writers and readers, to Zelazny's death. _Nobody_ who ever met
 BB> him seems to have a bad word for him. He is universally praised
 BB> as courteous, gracious, patient, and altogether gentlemanly.

In two weeks I'll be heading down to Atlanta for NASFiC. I'm sure there will be
quite a buzz going around about the loss. I'll post a message about what I hear
when I get back.

Paul

--- GoldED 2.42.G0614
 * Origin: USS Wolf - Wheatland, PA  (1:2601/515)

Ä [20] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 104 of 158
 From : David Little                        1:106/7287      .ÿò 23 .þí 95 05:58
 To   : Jack Butler
 Subj : Star Wars
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 -=>} Jack Butler belched these words of wisdom! {<=-

 DL> Sherman, set the wayback machine for 1977.

 DL> If you CAN remember, there were several times rumors abounded
 DL> about Star Trek making a comeback. They tried, fell apart.
 JB> I remember all the hoopla about "Trek Phase II", and I was as
 JB> skeptical then as I am now.

        Some of use still are...[DoLittle points to his aunt who is disgusted
with the latest DS9 episode...]

 DL> Will he back down? NO!! It would be a PR nightmare for
 DL> LucasFilm if he did that. The reputation of the afforementioned
 DL> companies would go down the tubes. Why would he lie about something
 DL> like this when it would cost him everything?
 JB> I disagree.  Lucas could very easily simply shut up about future
 JB> Star Wars films and the hullabaloo would die out.  Quietly, slowly, but
 JB> it would die.  And no one would ever say a thing.

        There are several hundred thousand fans who would...not to mention the
merchandising arm!!

 JB> Why should they?  Its been 20 years (nearly, anyway) since the
 JB> original film.  There is an entire generation of science fiction fans
 JB> to whom Star Wars was *not* a "sudden phenomenon".  Give you a good
 JB> example of what I mean:  I played Star Wars for my nephew Bradley (who
 JB> is 15 and hadn't seen any of the Star Wars films).  His reaction:
 JB> "Pretty neat, but the effects could have been better..."
 JB> *These* kids are soon going to be the primary market target for
 JB> science fiction.  They have no earthly idea of what Star Wars is, or
 JB> meant to *us* in terms of being science fiction fans.

        You're nephew is an exception. There are several kids around here in
the 15-under crowd that are becoming the new generation of Star Wars fans.
That, and the fans who saw it the first time will see them again, just to
relive those days of yesteryear! My oldest son, who is now 5, can't get enough
of it, and I found my youngest, who is 3, playing out the 3 lightsaber battles
the other day. I have, of course, several other movies that they can watch
and sometimes they do. But, they almost always want to watch Star Wars. Wife
has even threatened to cut the tapes if they watch it again.
        At any rate, I still find it improbable that there will be no new
films.

                                        -=The DoLittle 8-)=-

... What a piece of junk...
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12
--- FreeMail/T.A.G. 2.7b Standard
 * Origin: Shadows Of The Night    Houston,Tx     (713)354-6406 (1:106/7287)

Ä [20] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 105 of 158
 From : Dan Kachoogian                      1:107/953       .ÿò 23 .þí 95 08:01
 To   : Wayne Crow
 Subj : Re: CONGO
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
*** Quoting Wayne Crow to Keith Stokes ***

WC>   I saw the previews of "Congo". I thought it was pretty cool. I
WC> think
WC> I'll go see it next week. Hope I ain't wasting my money.

I would wait until it's on the late movie on network TV if I were you.

                                                       -Dan

---
 * Origin: The Juice Bar BBS (908) 298-0764 (1:107/953)

Ä [20] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 106 of 158
 From : Timothy Malone                      1:343/1         .ÿò 23 .þí 95 21:11
 To   : Allison Urschel
 Subj : X-FILES
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
I think that the X-Files is a great show.I can't wait to see how the last
episode ends.It is probably my favorite show.My name is Timothy Malone please
write.

--- FLAME v1.1
 * Origin: BECS Central <<NET 343 NEC >> (1:343/1)

Ä [20] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 107 of 158
 From : Steve Martin                        1:271/285       .ÿò 23 .þí 95 21:12
 To   : James Walton
 Subj : Star Wars
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Big Brother caught James Walton & Jim Cushing crimespeaking about Star
Wars.

 JW> I wasn't speaking about the economic impact.  The numbers no longer
 JW> have a meaning these days, by the way, since movie prices are so
 JW> inflated. I meant the cultural and social impacts Star Wars had

Agreed.  Seems every summer there are two or three records set on
receipts.  They should report ticket sales instead.

For that matter, Star Wars is probably very high on the list of *repeat*
ticket sales.  Something I haven't heard of much lately.


... Veni Vidi Visa:  I came, I saw, I did a little shopping.
--- Blue Wave/QBBS v2.12
 * Origin: From Trekkies & from B5ers who hate Trek save us! (1:271/285.0)

Ä [20] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 108 of 158
 From : Rumble                              1:163/436       .ÿò 23 .þí 95 22:14
 To   : John Kahane
 Subj : Star Trek
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
I know that the Klingons will be a huge problem. But they really should not be.
Look at all those new a super powerful ships build after wolf 359. The Intrepid
class, the Nebula class and the Defiant! It could take on a small fleet of
Klingons ships and with Sisko at the helm it would most likely win.

--- Maximus 2.02
 * Origin: Coven's Den (613)746-3584=650+ Echoes & 5+ Gigs (1:163/436)

Ä [20] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 109 of 158
 From : Nicolai Shapero                     1:102/524       .óá 24 .þí 95 06:34
 To   : Frank Eva
 Subj : Cancellations
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Actually, Sliders starts up again tomorrow (Sunday, 25 June 1995) at 7 pm...or
so our local FOX station has been advertising...

I don't expect it to be new episodes, but I'll have a tape ready just in case...

-- Nicolai Shapero, the Mad Russian Sysop of StormGate Aerie

--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [20] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 110 of 158
 From : Nicolai Shapero                     1:102/524       .óá 24 .þí 95 06:36
 To   : ROBERT LIDGREN
 Subj : SLIDERS RENEWED??
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Jun 21 17:13>, ROBERT LIDGREN (1:134/10) wrote to ALL:

 RL>The following is a cross-post from the Earth 2 Mailing list but
 RL>it is about
 RL>SLIDERS.
 RL>According to this post, SLIDERS has been renewed.  Can anyone
 RL>else confirm
 RL>hearing this news from an independent source??

The Fox station in the Los Angeles area has been advertising the return of
Sliders ("new day and time").  It's supposed to start tomorrow (as I write
this).  Sunday, 25 June 1995.  We shall see...

-- Nicolai Shapero, the Mad Russian Sysop of StormGate Aerie

--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [20] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 111 of 158
 From : Nicolai Shapero                     1:102/524       .óá 24 .þí 95 06:39
 To   : ROBERT LIDGREN
 Subj : CUDOS FOR THE SHAPEROS
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Thankee muchlee.  I'll try and keep up the good work.

-- Nicolai Shapero, Moderator of the SFFAN echo


--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [20] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 112 of 158
 From : Nicolai Shapero                     1:102/524       .óá 24 .þí 95 06:42
 To   : Sean McCormick
 Subj : Msg 2 of 4 (Rules)
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Jun 22 17:30>, Sean McCormick (1:226/1330) wrote to Nicolai Shapero:

¦NS> forever.  I do not need variants on the Werner-beast on this echo!     ¦
 SM>ÔÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍ
 SM>ÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍ¾
 SM>    Who was the werner beast?

An individual who was notoriously ill-behaved on all the conferences on FidoNet
that he ever got on to.

-- Nicolai Shapero, Moderator of the SFFAN echo

--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [20] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 113 of 158
 From : Phill Ash                           1:275/160       .óá 24 .þí 95 07:24
 To   : All
 Subj : Micro Machines
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE 1.1+
        The B5 MicroMachines are finally out!
        We managed to find them at (of all places) K-Mart!

        Set 1                           Set 2
        Babylon 5                       Vorlon Cruiser
        Vorlon Transport                Narn Transport
        Green Ship (Skylark)            Raider Ship

        Set 3                           Set 4
        Centauri Transport              Minbari Flyer
        Minbari Cruiser                 Narn Fighter
        Star Fury                       B5 Crew Shuttle


From the Office of the DeathMaster General
---
 þ DeathMail (ver ü.1) þ My credit is so bad, most places won't even take my
cash~~~ ReneWave v1.00.wb2 (unregistered)
--- Smile :)
 * Origin: * The Beast's Lair * (804)425-1618 * Va Beach VA * (1:275/160)

Ä [20] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 114 of 158
 From : Phill Ash                           1:275/160       .óá 24 .þí 95 07:24
 To   : Jim Cushing
 Subj : Re: Star Wars
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE 1.1+

>Disagree, George Lucas has complete control over Star Wars. On top of
>that consider all promotions we will see when the release date for the
>new movie  gets closer. I would venture to say that it will probably
>break all the current records for box office receipts.

        Batman (the first one) is proof of that.
        It was preceeded by a blitz of merchandising, marketing and
        hype.  "Darkman" saw less of a fanfare upon it's release less
        than a month later.  Of course "Batman" cashed in while
        "Darkman" saw a modest profit.  Compared in proportion to the
        nauseation factor of the advertising, "Darkman" was much better
        than "Batman"


Your pal:  PhlAsh
... 69:  the square of 8-something
---
 * PhlAshMail 1.0 *
~~~ ReneWave v1.00.wb2 (unregistered)
--- Smile :)
 * Origin: * The Beast's Lair * (804)425-1618 * Va Beach VA * (1:275/160)

Ä [20] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 115 of 158
 From : Steve Martin                        1:271/285       .óá 24 .þí 95 08:37
 To   : Frank Eva
 Subj : HARLAN ELLISON
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Big Brother caught Frank Eva & Robert Lidgren crimespeaking about HARLAN
ELLISON.

 FE> Have you seen any of Ellison's "editorials" on the Sci-Fi Channel?
   > In his last tirade, he gave a scathing denunciation against trek
   > fiction. He said that sci-fi fans were missing out on excellent
   > original science  fiction because publishers won't bring in stuff
   > from outside the USA.

Sounds about right.  Aside from US and Canadian writers, and maybe a
couple of British ones, the local bookstore has one book (by Stanislaw
Lem) in it's SF section.  If you add the SF/Fantasy books in the kids
section, you can add a handful of British authors.

On only one SF book I've read for the past 8 or 10 years can I remember
seeing a "translated by."  (Then again, in that category, outside of the
SF market there have only been 1 work of popular fiction and 2 classics
in the same time.)

... It is better to wear out than to rust out.
--- Blue Wave/QBBS v2.12
 * Origin: From Trekkies & from B5ers who hate Trek save us! (1:271/285.0)

Ä [20] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 116 of 158
 From : Gloria Darcy                        1:124/8107      .óá 24 .þí 95 19:37
 To   : Pamela Crossett
 Subj : HighLander, The Series
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
I don't remember who this message was to, Pam, but it was someone whose station
decided to cancel Highlander becuase it didn't have enough of an audience.
Sorry, I can't remember.

Gloria


--- Maximus/2 2.02
 * Origin: Palindrome WriterNet [Fiction&Non] (1:124/8107)

Ä [20] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 117 of 158
 From : Jake Smith                          1:3822/1        .óá 24 .þí 95 22:18
 To   : All
 Subj : Battletech challengers ne
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
group looking for 3-8 person gaming group to play against a fellow
gaming group in the futuristic game of combat battletech. also,dm
interested in players for dungeons and dragons campaigns, this includes
AD&D & D&D. -respond immediatly to 484-0838 and ask for Ray or 452-1972
and ask for AJ.

--- QScan/PCB v1.17b / 01-0162
 * Origin: Jackalope Junction  501-785-5381 Ft Smith AR (1:3822/1)

Ä [20] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 118 of 158
 From : Jeff Young                          1:232/319       .óá 24 .þí 95 00:44
 To   : Christian Lacoste
 Subj : Re: THE PRISONER
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: FastEcho 1.41/g 8030

 -=> Quoting Christian Lacoste to J.T. Smith <=-

 CL> I've seen all 17 episodes almost in a row, so I assume I can have an
 CL> opinion now that my psychiatric treatment is over. :)

Same here.  Have all 17 on tape and really enjoy going back and watching them.

 CL> Some would say that the final scene of the last episode settles the
 CL> mystery of The Prisoner. I don't think so. There just are so many
 CL> interpretations, all of them equally possible, none of them provable.

Definately!  Who exactly is Number 1?  There is a bit of Number 1 in all of us
and Number 1 is us! :)

 CL> Bonjour chez vous ! -- sorry, I don't know The Prisoner's ritual
 CL> welcome/goodbye sentence in english 'cause I saw the series in French.
 CL> Quite normal if you consider I *am* French.

Be seeing you.  That's the goodbye phrase.

                                                Cheers,
                                                Jeff


--- RA 2.02/FE 1.41g under WFWG
 * Origin: The Locker Room (1:232/319)

Ä [20] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 119 of 158
 From : David Johnston                      1:342/14        .óá 24 .þí 95 01:08
 To   : Mark Jones
 Subj : Sliders - Bathroom? Wash
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
-> JH> No to mention technical ones. It should be impossible to
-> replicate JH> energy, Human brains require it. You could manufacture
-> a lot of dead JH> bodies, but not crews.
-> If that were the case, you'd kill everyone who ever went through a
-> transporter.  Because the transporter is doing exactly what the
-> replicator does:  it disintegrates Riker at point A, creating a

If the transporter and the replicator were the same thing, they would
have the same capabilities, but they do not.

--- PCBoard (R) v15.21/100
 * Origin: Freddy's Place - Edm. AB - 28.8K (403) 456-4241 (1:342/14)

Ä [20] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 120 of 158
 From : David Johnston                      1:342/14        .óá 24 .þí 95 11:20
 To   : Bill Hedrick
 Subj : Star Trek
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
-> not an example of this, GR's war was: "The only way evil may prosper
-> is for good men to do nothing."
-> He saw the results of appeasement and lack of readiness to defend
-> oneself. This is a violent world/universe and there are only two
-> peaceful states: The grave after being killed by your enemy and the
-> peace derived from an adequte defense. I fear we now have been
-> without a real threat for so long that most young Americans don't
-> know this...

You are really putting words into Roddenberry's mouth here.  By the time
of TNG, Roddenberry was a strong backer of appeasement in almost any
circumstance.  In fact, it was he who imposed a regime under which the
Enterprise was not allowed to successfully deal with any problem by a
resort to violence, even in self-defense.

Of course, people change.  Roddenberry's perspective was originally much
more balanced as of the original series, or so it would seem.

--- PCBoard (R) v15.21/100
 * Origin: Freddy's Place - Edm. AB - 28.8K (403) 456-4241 (1:342/14)

Ä [20] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 121 of 158
 From : Marc Zingarelli                     1:226/110       .cê 25 .þí 95 08:34
 To   : Gloria Darcy
 Subj : Re: Highlander Scedule
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12  92-0004
Gloria Darcy was overheard talking to Brian Kuhnel,
about Re: Highlander Scedule, in "Joe's Place" and said:

GD>Okay, Brian, I think we missed some episodes or something, because I had no
GD>idea Ann knew that Duncan was immortal!  Never did I see an episode where
GD>she found out about it and neither did I see an episode where it was told
GD>that Ann is pregnant!  I am just baffled!  When on earth did all of this
GD>happen?

In the last 2 or three episodes I believe.  One Episode he calls her at Joe's
from paris, the next episode she was in Paris, the next episode or two she
says she can't take the "lifestyle" and is gone.  I know it's not alot but my
memory ain't as good as it used to be.<g>


Later


Marc


---
 LT MARC ZINGARELLI
 Circleville Fire Department
 Local 1232
 Internet:  marc.zingarelli@tcr.com


 * OLX 1.52 * He's Dead Jim! Kick Him If You Don't Believe Me!

--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12
 * Origin: The Computer Room-Pickerington, Oh (614)861-8377  (1:226/110.0)

Ä [20] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 122 of 158
 From : Frank Eva                           1:154/750       .cê 25 .þí 95 08:36
 To   : Gloria Darcy
 Subj : Hairdo Award
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: FastEcho 1.42.bA 8060

GD>Re: Bun of Steel Janeway.  Funny, real funny!  Do you think it looks
GD>that bad?

I've never really liked it; so, when TV Guide gave it this award, I
thought they were right-on!

---
 * Origin: *YOPS ]I[* 3.1 GIG * RA/FD/FE RADist * Milwaukee, WI (1:154/750)

Ä [20] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 123 of 158
 From : Frank Eva                           1:154/750       .cê 25 .þí 95 09:01
 To   : Robert Lidgren
 Subj : Sci-Fi Channel
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: FastEcho 1.42.bA 8060

RL>Unfortunately, I can't get the Sci-Fi Channel here in Canada so I am
RL>very envious!  Do fill me in on Harlan's tirades though.  What
RL>programs does this channel offer?

Right now, the schedule is overloaded with short-run series. The only
thing I really look forward to is Space 1999, but they're in season #2,
which was a disaster; so, I'm hoping they'll get back to season #1,
soon. They also have The Twilight Zone, Friday The 13th: The Series, and
they'll have an exclusive on ST:TOS beginning in a year or two. They're
getting Max Headroom and The Flash later this year.

--- CMPQwk 1.42-R2 #145 ---
In his confusion, Kirk uses Scotty as toilet tissue...

---
 * Origin: *YOPS ]I[* 3.1 GIG * RA/FD/FE RADist * Milwaukee, WI (1:154/750)

Ä [20] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 124 of 158
 From : Dexter Fernandez                    1:203/1701      .òp 20 .þí 95 04:45
 To   : Brian Henderson
 Subj : Re: Voyager Nose Diving?
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
"Brianmeister! Brianster! The Brianinator!"

 FE> I have given it a chance. I taped all of the first 9 episodes, and
 FE> will keep them in my collection. Since then, the quality has
 FE> nosedived, and the writers seem content to rehash old themes.

 BH> Well, I'll agree with the last half. I watched the premiere movie, and
 BH> was so disgusted by the end that I turned off the tape and erased it.

Here's my theory about what's happening to Trek: The writers are tired.
Voyager has had some good moments, but largely it's been due to the
cast pulling the script out of the hole.

I can't help but wonder what Trek could be if they had the same class
of writers at the helm as B5 does...

Tyrannosaurus Dex
EchoTyrantLizardVolehunterFounder
Volcano Ghod and Moderator of the Terok Nor Echo


... Does the Little Mermaid wear an algebra?
--- Blue Wave/TG v2.12 [NR]
 * Origin: The Itchy & Scratchy Show (916) 721-1701 (1:203/1701.0)

Ä [20] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 125 of 158
 From : Dexter Fernandez                    1:203/1701      .òp 20 .þí 95 05:28
 To   : Myra I Fox
 Subj : Re: BABYLON 5 (PTEN)
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
"Myrameister! Myraster! The Myrainator!"

MIF> I watch only 4 shows now and they are all at least marginally sf or
 MIF> fantasy  :-)   Babylon 5, Highlander, Kung Fu: The Legend Continues
 MIF> and the X Files.

You didn't like "Sliders?"

Long time no see, stranger!

Tyrannosaurus Dex
EchoTyrantLizardVolehunterFounder
Volcano Ghod and Moderator of the Terok Nor Echo



... Let conscience be your Guinan.
--- Blue Wave/TG v2.12 [NR]
 * Origin: The Itchy & Scratchy Show (916) 721-1701 (1:203/1701.0)

Ä [20] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 126 of 158
 From : Bruce Baugh                         1:105/290.50    .ÿò 23 .þí 95 17:03
 To   : Mark Jones
 Subj : Star Wars Fridge Logic
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On (20 Jun 95) Mark Jones wrote to Jack Butler...

 MJ> 1. The Death Star is capable of hyperdrive. Why not *flit* to
 MJ> the other side of the planet? 2. Why go AROUND the gas giant,
 MJ> when they could simply BLOW IT UP? Even if the explosion
 MJ> didn't destroy the moon, a second shot would have been easily
 MJ> made.

Actually, both of these are reasonably hand-waveable. Watch closely.

1. Hyperdrive isn't precise, and seems to work only over long
distances. Jumping through a star system may require actually going
outside it altogether and then back in.

2. We don't know how long it takes to build up a sufficient charge
for the video switcher, er, main gun of the Death Star. Could be
that if they blew up the planet, they'd have to spend a couple of
days recuperating.

... {This tagline may contain an encrypted satanic message}

--- PPoint 1.92
 * Origin: The Home Trepanning Club (1:105/290.50)

Ä [20] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 127 of 158
 From : Chris Carter                        1:105/302.23    .óá 24 .þí 95 03:22
 To   : ROBERT LIDGREN
 Subj : CHRIS CARTER ??
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On (21 Jun 95) ROBERT LIDGREN wrote to ALL...

 RL> Is the Chris Carter we see so often here on SFFAN THE Chris
 RL> Carter from The X-Files?

No.

 RL> Or, is it even SOMETIMES that Chris Carter.

No.  The CC who produces the X-Files can only be found on Delphi.
He doesn't have an e-mail address of his own, (at least, not one he
wants to make public) but you can shoot e-mail his general direction
by sending it to foxnet@delphi.com.  I think x-files@delphi.com may
also be a legitimate address.

Chris - carter@teleport.com


... "Motorman's Glove will have a hand in it."

--- PPoint 1.92
 * Origin: Grid Epsilon Coords. 105x302x23 (1:105/302.23)

Ä [20] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 128 of 158
 From : Frank Glover                        1:2613/477      .óá 24 .þí 95 17:46
 To   : ROBERT LIDGREN
 Subj : Re: CHRIS CARTER ??
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

RL>  Is the Chris Carter we see so often here on SFFAN THE Chris Carter
RL>  from The
RL>  X-Files?  Or, is it even SOMETIMES that Chris Carter.  Keep the
RL>  howling and
RL>  derision to a minimum if this is read as an idiot question, eh??

   He was asked not long ago, and he denies being the same.

   Chris is a fairly common name, so's Carter. The combination can't be too
rare.

   (I'm sometimes asked, jokingly or seriously, if I'm related to Danny Glover.
Standard answer: "Nope. Not John or Crispin, for that matter...")

   Frank


--- QuickBBS 2.80 GoldBase (Zeta-1)
 * Origin: The Matrix Data Bank BBS, Rochester, Ny (1:2613/477)

Ä [20] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 129 of 158
 From : Frank Glover                        1:2613/477      .óá 24 .þí 95 17:56
 To   : Walter Sorrell
 Subj : Re: Bionic What?
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

WS>       Hey does anyone remember a cartoon series called something like
WS>  the
WS>  Bionic Five or Bionic Six?  The leaders were a middle aged couple
WS>  Father
WS>  One,who had enhanced hearing and sight, and Mother One, with

   This sounds vaguely like a series call `The Champions,' but I can't swear to
that....

   Frank


--- QuickBBS 2.80 GoldBase (Zeta-1)
 * Origin: The Matrix Data Bank BBS, Rochester, Ny (1:2613/477)

Ä [20] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 130 of 158
 From : Brian Reepen                        1:2410/401      .óá 24 .þí 95 17:58
 To   : Steven Wesen
 Subj : Re: Internet
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On 22 Jun 95  09:08:00, Steven Wesen said this to Brian Reepen

SW> Yes try the Dominion which is sponsered by the Sci- Fi channel just use a
SW>  yahoo search to find it.
SW>
SW> Steve(Merlyn)
SW>
SW> --- GEcho 1.11+
SW>  * Origin: Time Machine Node 2, Newport News, VA 595-9383 (1:271/236)

    Thanks,

         Brian Reepen

--- Renegade v10-05 Exp
 * Origin: AVERNUS [313.427.0224] (1:2410/401)

Ä [20] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 131 of 158
 From : Frank Glover                        1:2613/477      .óá 24 .þí 95 18:03
 To   : Rumble
 Subj : Re: Federation Idiocy
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

Ru>  The Aliens of the Trek univers are much more sneaky than Babylon 5's.
Ru>  You see on Babylon 5 we know what all of them are going to do, jsut
Ru>  attack. But on DSN we have no idea exactly what the Dominion are
Ru>  going to do with the Alpha quadrent.

   Hmmm. Larry Niven would've called the former `scream and leap' tactics.
(Which is probably what the GemHaddar would do, left to themselves....)

   Frank


--- QuickBBS 2.80 GoldBase (Zeta-1)
 * Origin: The Matrix Data Bank BBS, Rochester, Ny (1:2613/477)

Ä [20] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 132 of 158
 From : Frank Glover                        1:2613/477      .óá 24 .þí 95 18:09
 To   : Rumble
 Subj : Re: Star Trek
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

Ru>  The Feds will finaly come to their senses and wipe out the Dominion.

   Aside from it being against Federation principles to be *that* aggressive,
what makes you so sure that they *can?* Also, the Fed is still recovering from
Borg-inflicted wounds, too. (They were, after all, the reason the Defiant-class
ships were developed.)

Ru>  The Alpha quadrent has to band together to destroy the Gamma
Ru>  Quadrent. Like mount Defiant style phasers on Warbirds.

   I wouldn't be quite so general. There's probably plenty of harmles
civilizations over there, too. Some of which may not even have *heard* of the
Dominion, others who hate tham, but can't/won't fight them.

   Now, if the Borg and the Dominion could somehow be pitted against each
other....but we'd still have to deal with the winner. And the only known easy
access is still the wormhole near DS9....

   Frank


--- QuickBBS 2.80 GoldBase (Zeta-1)
 * Origin: The Matrix Data Bank BBS, Rochester, Ny (1:2613/477)

Ä [20] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 133 of 158
 From : Starwolf                            1:163/214       .cê 25 .þí 95 00:00
 To   : Jeff Hancock
 Subj : Vendetta
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

JH>during his final years when he couldn't always keep up with the details
JH>of what was going on; and that this person was fired shortly after his
JH>death. For all I know, this person got rehired...

Richard Arnold?  I exchanged a few letters with the guy and he seemd to
be of the attitude that TREK fans had little or nothing to do with its
success and that they should be happy there was a show and let it be at
that.  He seriously needed an attitude adjustment as far as his outlook
on his clients was concerned.

JH>blanked on the name, but it was a doublesized novel featuring the return
JH>of the Borg and the Doomsday Machine Mk.2 ... that last might work
JH>better as a movie.

In my opinion - and some of the people in my entourage - it is the
all-time BEST "ST" novel ever written and begs to be made into a movie,
though the sideplot with Geordi trying to return a Borg's humanity is
pretty much rendered unuseable by the not-so-hot TV eposides titled I,
BORG (which came AFTER the book by about a year).

THE DOOMSDAY MACHINE remains my all-time favourite episode set in the ST
universe.  I even have the laser dsic because I was wearing out the tape
watching it.  VENDETTA had me jumping up and down and clapping my paws
all throughout.

 * SLMR 2.1a * "Cities:  places you go to NOT do things."

--- Maximus 2.01wb
 * Origin: Land of Ill Repute (1:163/214)

Ä [20] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 134 of 158
 From : Kavin Kishor                        1:153/942       .cê 25 .þí 95 01:29
 To   : Mark Jones
 Subj : Xavier St. Cloud and the Quickening
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE 1.12.b3+
Before losing his head, Mark Jones talked to Kavin Kishor about Xavier St. Cloud
and

 MJ> On (13 Jun 95) Kavin Kishor wrote to Phill Ash...

 KK>         Actually I nifty thing that the series has started doing is
 KK> make each Immortals "harkening" have aparticular soundclip.
 KK> Methos has a an odd chanting to his buzz that lasts for a bit. An
 KK> the immortal whose master Duncan killed also had a different type
 KK> of buzz than his mentor.
 MJ>
 MJ> Don't be too sure.  I thought the same thing--except that one time
 MJ> it wasn't Methos Duncan met, but Amanda.
 MJ>
 MJ> Personally, I think they're just playing around with different
 MJ> sound effects from time to time, looking for nifty ones.

        Hmm, I'll have to check that, but I'm almost certain that the
creative staff is trying to add distinctive buzz's to characters.
Actually I don't think we've heard Duncan's special one yet.


... "There can be only one...too bad you're not him."  WOOSH-THUD.

--- PTQWK 1.05 (Reg.)
 * Origin:  (1:153/942)

Ä [20] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 135 of 158
 From : Paul Worley                         1:2601/515      .cê 25 .þí 95 02:23
 To   : ROBERT LIDGREN
 Subj : HARLAN ELLISON
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
22 Jun 95 01:16, ROBERT LIDGREN wrote to PAUL WORLEY:

 RL> Do fill me in on Harlan's appearance.  I've corresponded with him
 RL> and his wife, Susan Ellison, and read his books.  I haven't seen
 RL> him live ever!
 RL> By the way, I received from Harlan this week my CD copy of his
 RL> Palladin of the Lost Hour.  It's a damn fine recording!! The
 RL> liner notes are terrific.  By the way, I've been waiting for this
 RL> recording for more than 5 years!
 RL> If you want details about how to get the album, drop me a
 RL> message.

This will be my 3rd time to see him. First was at the Superman Expo in
Cleveland back in '88. Then two years ago at a retailer's comic convention in
Atlanta. In person, he's kinda cold and seemingly cynical. But, as a speaker, he
is a master of words. His keynote speaches are stunning. When he talked about
the younger comics generation not knowing some of the founding comics fathers,
it was enough to bring tears to many, many eyes, as well as a standing ovation,
twice before he was through!
   Sure, tell us all how we can get the CD. What all is on it?
Paul

--- GoldED 2.42.G0614
 * Origin: USS Wolf - Wheatland, PA  (1:2601/515)

Ä [20] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 136 of 158
 From : Starwolf                            1:163/214       .cê 25 .þí 95 02:25
 To   : Phill Ash
 Subj : L.I.S. movie?
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Yah, that rumour has been making the rounds for some time.  Quite afew Allen
shows are due for movie finales.  LIS is one of them.  TIME TUNNEL is another.
I know a guy who's hoping for a LAND OF THE GIANTS film.  VOYAGE TO THE BOTTOM
OF THE SEA could be fun, but without Nelson (Baseheart dies a few years back) it
just wouldn't be the same.  And I'm not sure I'd want to see an updated Seaview.
There was something fun in the old sub that couldn't be recreated in a new,
technically up-to-date version.


--- Maximus 2.01wb
 * Origin: Land of Ill Repute (1:163/214)

Ä [20] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 137 of 158
 From : Paul Worley                         1:2601/515      .cê 25 .þí 95 02:29
 To   : Phill Ash
 Subj : L.I.S.
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
22 Jun 95 08:12, Phill Ash wrote to Starwolf:

 PA> Referring to the amazing lack of "tech" in Lost in Space:

Avtually, refering to the LIS comic book, check out issue #1. Inside front
cover, white lettering down in the bottom corner, where it gives all the yucky
boring information and see if you can find my name.
(Shameless self-plug)  Special kudos if you write back and tell me what the book
lists my involvement to be...    :)

Paul

--- GoldED 2.42.G0614
 * Origin: USS Wolf - Wheatland, PA  (1:2601/515)

Ä [20] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 138 of 158
 From : Chris Carter                        1:105/302.23    .cê 25 .þí 95 03:54
 To   : Jim Cushing
 Subj : Babylon 5 (Pten)
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On (21 Jun 95) Jim Cushing wrote to Brian Henderson...

 JC> Come on Brian! Paramount was successful before Star Trek and
 JC> it will continue to be successful after the "cow" runs dry.

Aha!  That explains the fleshy protuberances hanging from the saucer
section of the Enterprise-D.

Chris - carter@teleport.com


... Warning!  This tagline contains Visdormativa!

--- PPoint 1.92
 * Origin: Grid Epsilon Coords. 105x302x23 (1:105/302.23)

Ä [20] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 139 of 158
 From : Chris Carter                        1:105/302.23    .cê 25 .þí 95 04:18
 To   : David Johnston
 Subj : B5: EA conspiracy
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
<Note the alteration of the subject line.>

On (20 Jun 95) David Johnston wrote to Chris Carter...

 CC> General Hague and Co. aren't enough for you, eh?

 DJ> Not really.  I'd like to see someone protesting out loud
 DJ> instead of just conspiring.

Loud conspirators = Dead conspirators.

Chris - carter@teleport.com


... "Sufferin' Succotash!!!"

--- PPoint 1.92
 * Origin: Grid Epsilon Coords. 105x302x23 (1:105/302.23)

Ä [20] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 140 of 158
 From : Jack Butler                         1:363/309       .cê 25 .þí 95 05:49
 To   : Mark Jones
 Subj : Batman Forever Review
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 Quoth Mark Jones, "Nevermore".

 MJ> I didn't think Bats exactly stunk at hand-to-hand in the first
 MJ> film, for that matter.  He beat up quite a few gun/sword/club wielding
 MJ> thugs, after all.

     Compare the fight-sequences in the first film with those in the third.
Then tell me which Batman was the more-skilled pugilist.


 MJ> So by my count, three of the five villains from the movies are
 MJ> potential sequel-fodder.

     None of which they can use without being accused of rehashing old
material.


 MJ> MY main complaint with the film is that they've reused the same
 MJ> subplot for the THIRD time in as many movies.  The Babe Du Jour and
 MJ> Bats are attracted to one another; Babe discovers Batman's Secret
 MJ> Identity; Babe Du Jour mysteriously vanishes before the next movie.
 MJ> Isn't there *something* else they could do here?  Anything?

     Yes, probably lots.  It would be better if they kept a love interest
past a single movie.


     Jack Butler



... Next on Geraldo:  Is Spock really an elf named Elrond??
--- FMail 0.98a
 * Origin: Forethought BBS -=- Orlando FL -=- 407-277-7530 (1:363/309)

Ä [20] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 141 of 158
 From : Jack Butler                         1:363/309       .cê 25 .þí 95 05:51
 To   : Mark Jones
 Subj : Kilmer as Batman
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 Quoth Mark Jones, "Nevermore".

 MJ> Well, here's where we separate the men from the boys, or the real
 MJ> Batman fans from the hangers-on.  I recognize only three of these
 MJ> supervillains' names (Mad Hatter, Ra's Al Ghul, and Deadshot).  Which
 MJ> is probably bad news for the marketing department at Warner/DC, since
 MJ> I was heavy into superhero comics at one time.  But as Batman wasn't
 MJ> one of my regular fixes, I don't know who a lot of these guys/gals
 MJ> are.

     Of my choices, I'd prefer that they use the Mad Hatter and Poison Ivy
first off... they are old favorites of mine.
     Poison Ivy, by the by, is a crazed botanist whose skin causes extreme
allergic reactions in those she touches...

     Jack Butler



... A tribble a day keeps the Klingons well fed.
--- FMail 0.98a
 * Origin: Forethought BBS -=- Orlando FL -=- 407-277-7530 (1:363/309)

Ä [20] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 142 of 158
 From : Jack Butler                         1:363/309       .cê 25 .þí 95 05:52
 To   : Star Hawk
 Subj : Batman Forever Review
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 Quoth Star Hawk, "Nevermore".

 SH> Uhh, Jack?  Two-Face's coin is a double-headed one, so it always
 SH> comes up heads.  The difference between the two sides is scarred and
 SH> unscarred.

     I am aware of this, and you knew what I meant.

     Jack Butler



... "Event horizon?" -- Kes
--- FMail 0.98a
 * Origin: Forethought BBS -=- Orlando FL -=- 407-277-7530 (1:363/309)

Ä [20] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 143 of 158
 From : Jack Butler                         1:363/309       .cê 25 .þí 95 06:59
 To   : Frank Eva
 Subj : DS9 Season 4
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 Quoth Frank Eva, "Nevermore".

 FE> Yeah, they tried to get Worf, but he refused, citing the fact that
 FE> Paramount wasn't offering him enough money to get back into that heavy
 FE> makeup.

     This is something I will never understand.  What is up with people
referring to actors as their characters?
     I've seen this in a lot of things, usually on the cover of tabloids at
the local Publix.  Just yesterday I saw an Enquirer cover which read
"Superman's Bizarre Suicide Attempt In Hospital".  Set me to wondering which
hospital specializes in treating depressive comic book characters... must be
Seder/Sinai...


 FE> Yeah, I'll believe this when I see it. Same thing intimated at the
 FE> start  of the 3rd season, with the introduction of The Dominion, but we
 FE> all  know where that went...

     Ya never know.  I'm not expecting much, but ya never know.

     Jack Butler



... "Some days this is one helluva big horse..." -- Sheridan
--- FMail 0.98a
 * Origin: Forethought BBS -=- Orlando FL -=- 407-277-7530 (1:363/309)

Ä [20] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 144 of 158
 From : Jack Butler                         1:363/309       .cê 25 .þí 95 07:05
 To   : John Kahane
 Subj : B5 Comic Down
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 Quoth John Kahane, "Nevermore".

 JB>      <Chortle>  You simply *must* be joking.  Warner Brothers
 JB> is a division of Warner Communications, which is an overbody
 JB> which directly controls all arms of the company, including
 JB> Warner Brothers films, WBN, PTEN, and, incidentally, DC Comics
 JB> (what a surprise that they are doing the B5 Comic...)

 JK> Yeah, but the B5 comic will be coming to an end with the December
 JK> issue of the comic.  The only reason given by DC for this cancellation
 JK> of the B5 comic is internal politics.  *sigh*

     True, but irrelevant to the point, which was that Warners is just as
much a profit-sucking octopus as Paramount is.

     Jack Butler



... "Take your powder, take your gun, report to General Washington!"
--- FMail 0.98a
 * Origin: Forethought BBS -=- Orlando FL -=- 407-277-7530 (1:363/309)

Ä [20] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 145 of 158
 From : Jack Butler                         1:363/309       .cê 25 .þí 95 07:09
 To   : John Kahane
 Subj : Star Trek
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 Quoth John Kahane, "Nevermore".

 JK> Gee, it sounds like the folks at ST: DSN are about to bring a war
 JK> into the storyline...  I wonder where they got the idea from? :)

     Don't be cynical.  That's my job.  Besides, war has been a part of
the Trek storyline for ages...

     Jack Butler



... "Well baste my steaming puddings!" -- Blackadder
--- FMail 0.98a
 * Origin: Forethought BBS -=- Orlando FL -=- 407-277-7530 (1:363/309)

Ä [20] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 146 of 158
 From : Jack Butler                         1:363/309       .cê 25 .þí 95 07:15
 To   : ROBERT LIDGREN
 Subj : HARLAN ELLISON
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 Quoth ROBERT LIDGREN, "Nevermore".

 RL> The truth is that Americans never really have nearly the interest in
 RL> other countries to the DEGREE that other countries have this insatiable
 RL> fascination with America.

     This is because we are the dominant culture on the planet, despite what
the French want to believe.  As Attenborough said, "The Americans don't have
to do this because they already live here.  To succeed on this planet, one
must be familiar with the American way of doing things.  The Americans are
by birth..."

     I don't know whether this is a good thing or a bad thing, but it sure
looks like a *true* thing to me...

     Jack Butler



... "All right.  We waste him.  No offense..." -- Hicks
--- FMail 0.98a
 * Origin: Forethought BBS -=- Orlando FL -=- 407-277-7530 (1:363/309)

Ä [20] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 147 of 158
 From : Steven Wesen                        1:271/236       .cê 25 .þí 95 14:11
 To   : Walter Sorrell
 Subj : Re: Bionic What?
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE 1.11+
Yes it is called the Bionic 6

--- GEcho 1.11+
 * Origin: Time Machine Node 2, Newport News, VA 595-9383 (1:271/236)

Ä [20] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 148 of 158
 From : Starwolf                            1:163/214       .cê 25 .þí 95 16:26
 To   : Steve Martin
 Subj : The Prisoner
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

SM>"Be seeing you."  I don't know how "Bonjour chez vous" translates into
SM>English, but it looks like "Good day (something)."  "Be seeing you"

"Bonjour chez vous" DOESN'T translate.  It's gibberish in French.  It
SORT OF translates to "Hello in/at your home".  At best it's awful
syntax.  Unfortunately, the more appropriate "Au revoir!" (Be seeing
you/'till next time) is too short to adequately lip synch with "Be
seeing you", I guess.

 * SLMR 2.1a * "Une fois de plus, j'ai manque mon epoque."  P. Mortimer

--- Maximus 2.01wb
 * Origin: Land of Ill Repute (1:163/214)

Ä [20] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 149 of 158
 From : Starwolf                            1:163/214       .cê 25 .þí 95 16:32
 To   : Jeff Schlenker
 Subj : Ratings wars?
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

JS>Let us also not forget that NBC gave Star Trek THREE YEARS, before they
JS>axed it...  What would have happened had Star Trek premiered today?


If it had been done by Speilberg, it wouldn't matter, because he's rich
enough to command no-cut, no-cancel contracts with the networks.

As for three years, that figure is NOT accurate.  NBC tried to cancel it
after TWO.  Only overwhelming fan support kept it around, but they might
as well not have bothered, since NBC still had its revenge, by putting
in some really incompetent producer/directors (most third-season stories
were dreadful) and placing the show in a late-evening timeslot where it
didn't have much hope of survival.   Such tactics are not uncommon even
today when expensive, margianl shows are jerked around such that they
have no hope of gathering decent numbers, and then the network can claim
justification when they yank it.  Look at MAX HEADROOM, THE FLASH, and
others which just couldn't sit still on the program grid and, even when
they DID, were pre-empted so often, they may as well not have been on
the schedule at all.  And then the networks cry crocodile tears as they
cancel it.

 * SLMR 2.1a * "Mr. Worf, set statements on disintegrate."

--- Maximus 2.01wb
 * Origin: Land of Ill Repute (1:163/214)

Ä [20] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 150 of 158
 From : Starwolf                            1:163/214       .cê 25 .þí 95 16:37
 To   : Jeff Hancock
 Subj : Redundant engines?
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

JH>four-engine design provides some measure of backup (although I'd like to
JH>see how they'd get home on one engine considering that it'd send the
JH>whole ship spinning.)

They MIGHT be able to do it, real slow, if they used attitude jets on
one side to compensate for minumum thrust from the main engines on the
other side.  It'd be inefficient, but better than being stranded out
there.


 * SLMR 2.1a * 'REALITY' vs 'WISHFUL THINKING'  Reality wins every time

--- Maximus 2.01wb
 * Origin: Land of Ill Repute (1:163/214)

Ä [20] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 151 of 158
 From : Starwolf                            1:163/214       .cê 25 .þí 95 17:33
 To   : Mark Jones
 Subj : Federation Idiocy
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

MJ>And they abandoned it because it was "overgunned and overpowered" for
MJ>a ship of its size.  Which is the stupidest g-d thing I've ever heard,
MJ>even from Federation grasseaters.

Almost as stupid as, having built it, equipping it with a second-rate,
Romulan-loaned cloaking device instead of installing the MUCH BETTER
Federation-designed one demonstrated in THE PEGASUS.

MJ>Which is why none of the hostiles in the Trek universe actually
MJ>*behave* like hostiles.  If they did, the Federation would be overrun
MJ>by next Sunday.

Unlpess the Feds behaved in a real-world, non-Politically Correct
fashion and USED their hideous tech to best advantage and wiped out the
opposition.  Think for a moment about the REAL ramifications of having
transporter tech, or of being able to accellerate heavy masses to
multiples of the speed of light.  And you're going to fight someone who
can do that???  Not in the real world you wouldn't.

 * SLMR 2.1a * "Unclear on the concept:  Hall of Famer"

--- Maximus 2.01wb
 * Origin: Land of Ill Repute (1:163/214)

Ä [20] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 152 of 158
 From : Kay Shapero                         1:102/524       .cê 25 .þí 95 17:58
 To   : Jeff Hancock
 Subj : Sliders - Bathroom? Wash
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Jun 24 03:53>, Jeff Hancock (1:3600/7) wrote to Kay Shapero:

KS>KS>Ever witness a flash flood?
KS> JH>Does it break the sidewalk? ;-)
KS>Break it?  It washes the dirt out from around it, picks it up, and
KS>carts off sections....

 JH>So, to continue the analogy, are you saying that enough
 JH>Federation ships firing constantly at the Borg could warp and
 JH>tear apart the very fabric of space and cause the Borg ship to
 JH>be broken apart and flung away as a result? ;-)

Naw, I was suggesting the analogy was flawed inasmuch as raindrops hitting a
sidewalk need not be harmless at all.

Obviously getting a lot of Fed ships together to shoot at the Borg and blow them
out of space will only work if someone gets to make a heroic speech first... :->


--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [20] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 153 of 158
 From : Starwolf                            1:163/214       .cê 25 .þí 95 18:03
 To   : Tom Huber
 Subj : The best?
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

TH>both [Wells & Verne] wrote fiction that seemed "right" for when they
TH>wrote it. And that is something that the rest of us only wish we
TH>could do...

Ideally, dealing with universal themes which never go entirely out of
date.  That way, although the technology depicted in METROPOLIS is
hopelessly dated, there's still a fascination with that film.  I don't
think it will ever quite stop being interesting.


 * SLMR 2.1a * "I've gone off the idea of progress - it's overrated."

--- Maximus 2.01wb
 * Origin: Land of Ill Repute (1:163/214)

Ä [20] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 154 of 158
 From : James Walton                        1:129/260       .cê 25 .þí 95 22:30
 To   : Jack Butler
 Subj : Re: Kilmer as Batman
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 > How 'bout let's not.  Mister Freeze is Mr. Zero in the comic books.

No, Mr. Zero and Mister Freeze are not the same characters.  They had different
adversayies, etc.  Mister Freeze was against Batman. I _think_ Mr. Zero was
against the Flash.  There was also Captain Cool and Colonel Cold.  (I haven't
read these comics for 20+ years so I may be incorrect.)

--- Opus-CBCS 1.73a
 * Origin: ConFluence '95 goes to Mars! (1:129/260.0)

Ä [20] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 155 of 158
 From : James Walton                        1:129/260       .cê 25 .þí 95 22:35
 To   : Steve Martin
 Subj : Re: Star Wars
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 > For that matter, Star Wars is probably very high on the list of
 > *repeat* ticket sales.  Something I haven't heard of much lately.

If I recall correctly, Star Wars actually did more business the _second_ time it
was released to the big screen.  So many people missed it the first time around
that a second release was called fo.

--- Opus-CBCS 1.73a
 * Origin: ConFluence '95 goes to Mars! (1:129/260.0)

Ä [20] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 156 of 158
 From : Jim Cushing                         1:123/75        .cê 25 .þí 95 07:53
 To   : Frank Eva
 Subj : Re: B5 RERUNS???
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 E>But Tekwar is cancelled, and Legend is cancelled with some slight hope
 E>that they might get a second chance as a mid-season replacement.
 E>Those \are\ throwaway episodes, as far as USA and UPN are concerned.

 E>Do we really want BABYLON 5 to be treated the way the \cancelled\
 E>shows are being treated? I know \I\ don't.:)

 FE> I see no REAL evidence that TekWar and Legend have been cancelled.
 FE> When  I read about it in TV Guide, that's when I'll believe it.

 Believe it Frank! USA cancelled TekWar. Shatner is attempting to locate
 a studio in Canada that will produce TekWar. This past week Legend
 officially "bit the dust".

 FE> In the meantime, I think PTEN should show the last 4 episodes... THIS
 FE> SEASON. They aren't treating B5 like a "cancelled" show by doing so.
 FE> They're simply finishing the season the way it was scheduled to be
 FE> finished. To allow PTEN the EXCUSE you and others have provided is
 FE> nothing more than trying to put a good "spin" on the wrong decision!

 Who are you to say it is the wrong decision? Their decision makes perfect
 sense. Why would you want to show new episodes of B-5 in July during the
 middle of Summer?

... Prune juice:  The drink of warriors everywhere!
--- Blue Wave/RA v2.12 [NR]
 * Origin:  Weyr Galifrey - Memphis, TN  +1.901.685.0017 (1:123/75)

Ä [20] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 157 of 158
 From : David Johnston                      1:342/14        .cê 25 .þí 95 11:05
 To   : Rumble
 Subj : Star Trek
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
-> I know that the Klingons will be a huge problem. But they really
-> should not be. Look at all those new a super powerful ships build
-> after wolf 359. The Intrepid class, the Nebula class and the Defiant!
-> It could take on a small fleet of Klingons ships and with Sisko at
-> the helm it would most likely win.

Once upon a time someone tried to build the greatist warship in the
world.  It was huge and had more guns mounted on than any other ship.
The first time it's guns were fired, it sank.  The Defiant is not a
particularly sound design, despite it's firepower, and while it could
defeat any individual Klingon ship, a fleet could pretty quickly destroy
it just by it's own design flaws.

--- PCBoard (R) v15.21/100
 * Origin: Freddy's Place - Edm. AB - 28.8K (403) 456-4241 (1:342/14)

Ä [20] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 158 of 158
 From : Tom Huber                           1:115/477       .îí 26 .þí 95 00:10
 To   : Kay Shapero
 Subj : What if
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12  94-0102

KS> TH>Seriously, it sounds like a worthwhile book. I haven't found all
  > TH>the UBS in our new area, so I may put out a FUBS request on SF and see
  > TH>what they can churn up.

KS>STEEL BEACH was recently released in pb (I've got a hardback that someone
  >made the unbelievable goof of putting into the library book sale for $1)
  >so you shouldn't need a UBS - you'll find it in the new ones too. (Sorry,
  >you can't have MY copy... :->)

D*rned! I'll have to go visit a NBS, then. Thanks for the feedback.

Tom

--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12
 * Origin: StarSpawn BBS, A MidWest FurNet BBS 616-983-1834  (1:115/477.0)

Ä [22] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 1 of 57
 From : SEAN CASZATT                        1:2601/512      .åò 13 .þë 95 20:31
 To   : KEN MAYES
 Subj : Re: Red Dwarf
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

->         I've never seen the American pilot, so I can't really make an
-> judgement there. Although the idea of Terry Farrel as the Cat does so
-> intriguing. But...if they had done an American version of the series,
-> the original actors...and Grant and Naylor as series writers, it woul
-> been something to see. In my opinion it would've rivalled Trek in syn
-> But...it was not to be...unfortunately. (At the very least we might h
-> 26 episodes per season instead of a measely 6. Granted those 6 are be
-> most American offerings...and possibly if there were more, they would
-> funny per minute of airtime, (spreading the humor throughout the epis
-> were). Oh well.

I haven't seen the pilot either, but as is the case with most things
that were originally done in other countries and then "Americanized"
(ie. brought down to the lowest common denominator), I'm sure it would
have sucked.

With the original cast and writers, it may have been better...but as
you said they'd have to spread the laughs over more episode.  I think
we're better off with what we have now!


--- Platinum Xpress/Wildcat! v1.0h
 * Origin: Project Aurora - The Truth is Out There! - (1:2601/512)

Ä [22] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 2 of 57
 From : Jeff Schlenker                      1:288/19        .îí 10 .þë 95 00:00
 To   : Frank Eva
 Subj : DS9 Season 4
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

>  QUOTING:
>FROM: Frank Eva
>TO: Jeff Schlenker
>SUBJECT: DS9 Season 4
>DATE: 07-10-95  13:50

     FE> As you can see, I am not all that enthused about a Star Trek
     FE> that relies  heavily on the concept of armed conflict to find an
     FE> audience. If that's  the direction DS9 is taking, that's just
     FE> another nail in its coffin for  me...

 JS>I wouldn't want every show to be phasers blazing throughout, but an
 JS>occasional, knock-down, drag-out, fight for life would be a
 JS>refreshing change, IMHO.  A person can only take so much of that
 JS>cerebral stuff, sitting around discussing problems throughout the
 JS>show. :)

 FE> Agreed! Some of my favorite TNG eps were those in which The Federation
 FE> was up against The Borg! However, I just don't take anything they
 FE> promise about DS9 as gospel. They seemed to be promising a new
 FE> direction  last season, but after those horrible first few episodes, I
 FE> knew their  "new direction" was going no where it hadn't already.

Hmmmm, how about a new opening monologue for DS9.  (Or Voyager, for that
matter.)

...to boldly go where previous incarnations of Star Trek shows have gone
...before!

Jeff

___

Jeffrey A. Schlenker               jeff.schlenker@lake-city.com
--- < Sig-It > v3.00 by Brandon S. Bell
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

--- Maximus/2 2.02
 * Origin: LakeCity BBS * V34/4 Gigs Watertown SD 605 886-0849 (1:288/19)

Ä [22] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 3 of 57
 From : Frank Eva                           1:154/750       .ÿò 14 .þë 95 06:40
 To   : Emilio Ares
 Subj : DS9 Season 4
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: FastEcho 1.45 8060

EA> FE> As you can see, I am not all that enthused about a Star Trek
EA> FE> that relies  heavily on the concept of armed conflict to find an
EA> FE> audience. If that's  the direction DS9 is taking, that's just
EA> FE> another nail in its coffin for  me...

EA>Agreed.  IF the armed conflict is integral to the storyline that's
EA>another story.  But if the excuse for the storyline is the armed
EA>conflict then you have a show that will not last.  I'm thinking of
EA>the series Combat! which takes place during WWII.  Armed conflict?
EA>You bet.  But the stories was about the characters.  In DS9 the
EA>characters are there.  They have backgrounds.  What are needed are
EA>writers that can take advantage of the personalities of these people
EA>that have been revealed.

We certainly are on the same wavelength! :-)

I really do have doubts about the ability of the writers responsible for
DS9. If they think they can hook in new viewers just by making DS9
another "star wars", they've got another think coming. My problem is
that I have never been very impressed with ANY of their writing to date.
Last year they seemed to be promising a new, more action-oriented
direction, but after the first 2 episodes, I knew this new direction was
not going where I could easily follow. I have never felt drawn to any of
the characters, either. So, it would take a minor miracle of another
direction to get me interested again...

---
 * Origin: *YOPS ]I[* 3.1 GIG * RA/FD/FE RADist * Milwaukee, WI (1:154/750)

Ä [22] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 4 of 57
 From : John Kahane                         1:163/198.5     .åò 13 .þë 95 21:04
 To   : Chris Baugh
 Subj : B5 Comic Down
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
In a message of <Thursday July 06 1995 18:19>, Chris Baugh scribed:

 JK>> just find it hard to believe that the folks at DC Comics
 JK>> would publish such a shoddy product. While comic stories can

 CB> Yeah, that amazed me too.  The stories weren't bad.  I was
 CB> especially surprised because on the TV show JMS obviously
 CB> works hard on having a good looking program, as far as sets,
 CB> lighting, effects etc., so it's a mystery why he would have
 CB> approved such lousy art on the comic.

     Well, Joe has said that he exercises full control over the majority of the
story elements, the continuity with the series and the overall plot, and that
some of the dialogue he'll plot for the comics, but I've got the impression that
he's not all that involved in choice of artist, if at all.  This doesn't
surprise me, since Joe isn't a comics expert; he lets them do their job, and
merely involves himself in the project to the point he feels is necessary.

     John
.....
A young man's fancy and an old man's dream.

--- GoldED/2 2.42.G0614
 * Origin: JohnK's OS/2Warp Point - Ottawa, Ontario (1:163/198.5)

Ä [22] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 5 of 57
 From : John Kahane                         1:163/198.5     .ÿò 14 .þë 95 10:22
 To   : Kay Shapero
 Subj : Conversation started on B5
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
In a message of <Monday July 10 1995 09:01>, Kay Shapero scribed:

 KS> Care to continue the RPG character discussion we started over
 KS> on the Babylon 5 echo?  In here, it's on topic...

     Sure thing, Kay...  Since you started it over on the B5 echo, you get to
"start it" here again...  <g>  While it is on-topic here, I suppose it should
have been taken to RECFRP or some such, but to be honest, those echoes have
totally lost my interest.

     John
.....
Let me sing you songs from the woods...

--- GoldED/2 2.42.G0614
 * Origin: The Point Away From Home (1:163/198.5)

Ä [22] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 6 of 57
 From : Tony Trujillo                       1:280/9         .óá 15 .þë 95 01:24
 To   : Starwolf
 Subj : Re: Sliders Continuity
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE 1.11+

TT>>I'm just hoping some show dies a quick death so SLIDERS can
TT>>take it's rightful place on the tube! :^)
 S> I think you don't have much to worry about on that front, given how some
 S> networks seem to be trying their damndest to make SURE shows die as
 S> quickly as possible.

It seems that they always try to kill all of my favorite
shows however...like MAX HEADROOM. :^<



... "Don't quit your knight job!" Merlin shouted down at Lancelot
--- Via Silver Xpress V4.02B03 SW01177
 * Origin: South of the River - Overland Park KS - (913)642-7907 V.* (1:280/9)

Ä [22] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 7 of 57
 From : Tony Trujillo                       1:280/9         .óá 15 .þë 95 01:28
 To   : Kay Shapero
 Subj : Re: Sliders Continuity
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE 1.11+

 KS>> the very last scene is a hoot (and inspired a filk I'm currently
 KS>> finishing up. :->)
 TT>>You mean the "spaced" teddy bear? :^)
 KS> Ayep!  There are some other funny bits, notably when Ivanova visits the
 KS> store and the "nobody here is quite what he seems" aspect is even more
 KS> blatant than usual.  :->

I've seen posts about this episode (alien and human masks)
in the echo that have really made me ROFL. I expect nothing
less from Peter David. I would sure like to read some of his
non-Trek stuff like HOWLING MAD. Humm...maybe I should check
out the library. It's a crazy idea but it JUST MIGHT WORK!
:^)

 TT>>Really? I didn't know...hummm...could this be in preparation
 TT>>for new episodes...do we dare hope? :^)
 KS> Fingers, toes, eyes crossed... :->

I'd cross my (_add favorite body parts here_) if it would help! :^)

 KS> Ever see the episode where Riker temporarily joins a Klingon ship

Did I? I thought it was one of the top five best ST:TNG
episodes during the run of the series.

 KS> introduced to gakh?  I'll say this, he's good at contact xenology!
 KS> Kirk, otoh, strikes me as being more good at contact *sports*... :->

Uhhh...we are talking about xenology and sports, aren't we?
;^)


... "Oh Bother!" said Pooh, as the retro-rockets misfired
--- Via Silver Xpress V4.02B03 SW01177
 * Origin: South of the River - Overland Park KS - (913)642-7907 V.* (1:280/9)

Ä [22] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 8 of 57
 From : Brian Henderson                     1:207/804       .îí 10 .þë 95 01:07
 To   : John Kahane
 Subj : B5 Comic Down
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

JK> Yep, this pretty much sums up what I understand now to be the case.
JK> Frankly, it amazes me that they expected the comic to appeal to the
JK> die-hard fans of the series, given the shoddy art that has been
JK> presented throughout. While it has gotten better with recent issues,
JK> it's obviously way too late.

As a matter of fact, the B5 comic has gotten a reprieve and will be
around until at least issue 24, giving us more than a year of issues for
DC to increase sales.

I guess all those nasty phone calls to DC do some good after all.  ;)

___
 X RM 1.3  X Eval Day -17 X Choosey cats prefer Microsoft mice, 10 to 1

--- Maximus 2.02
 * Origin: The Belching Dragon Inn & Tavern (1:207/804)

Ä [22] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 9 of 57
 From : Brian Henderson                     1:207/804       .îí 10 .þë 95 01:09
 To   : Jack Butler
 Subj : B5 Renewed!
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

JB> I've been much too soft on you, Brian.  Your beginning to fall back
JB> into that old "Ignore everyone else's points since I am always
JB> right" mode you tend to fall into.

You know, I'd almost forgotten what kind of self-righteous nonsense you
post, Jack.  <sigh>

JB> Oh.  We can assume then that all money generated by these licenses
JB> is being devoted to some charitable organization?  And that neither
JB> Babylonian Productions and Straczynski himself aren't seeing dime
JB> one of it.

I'd much rather take the word of JMS, who is directly involved than you,
who doesn't have clue one, as is immediately obvious from your posts.

JB> Trek is irrelevant to the issue, Brian, and always has been.  What
JB> Paramount is doing with Trek has no bearing, will have no bearing,
JB> and never has any bearing on the merchandising of Babylon 5.  And
JB> since this is true, you should stop your pitiful attempts to shift
JB> the subject away from the truth.

No, Trek *IS* relevant since a lot of JMS's views are a direct
consequence of how Paramount has handled Trek. In fact, it seems to me
that I've posted articles from him on exactly this topic, agreeing with
me.

But I doubt you would ever bother stooping to the truth.

___
 X RM 1.3  X Eval Day -17 X Streakers repent!  Your end is in sight!

--- Maximus 2.02
 * Origin: The Belching Dragon Inn & Tavern (1:207/804)

Ä [22] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 10 of 57
 From : Brian Henderson                     1:207/804       .îí 10 .þë 95 01:13
 To   : Frank Eva
 Subj : B5 Reruns???
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

FE> Thanks, but I'll take what I read in TV Guide over the crazed rumors
FE> I see posted to the computer networks, any day!

You are, of course, free to do as you wish.

FE> This sounds like just more gobbledygook, like ECAREY was posting...

No, it is the truth. The third season of B5 starts on November 1, 1995
(I don't remember if it is officially the week of October 25 or November
5, since the 1st falls on a Wednesday). By definition, anything that is
shown prior to this week falls in *THE SECOND SEASON* which is exactly
when the last four episodes are being shown. You might not like the
fact that they are being held off and neither do I, but while we're
being pissed off, we might as well be accurate about it.

___
 X RM 1.3  X Eval Day -17 X There's more than one way to skin a cat; use a
sander.

--- Maximus 2.02
 * Origin: The Belching Dragon Inn & Tavern (1:207/804)

Ä [22] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 11 of 57
 From : Brian Henderson                     1:207/804       .îí 10 .þë 95 02:01
 To   : Dkimmel
 Subj : B5 Reruns???
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

DD> Wrong again, Frank.  The new season of B5 starts in November, so
DD> they are not showing the last four episodes "next season."
DD> Apparently you know very little about the television industry.  Why
DD> not listen and learn?

Nah... it's much more fun to pretend you know what you're talking about.
For the *FEW* of us who have worked in television in one capacity or
another, we don't have to worry about net rumors, we know the truth.

___
 X RM 1.3  X Eval Day -17 X "Sorry... it's the chocolate talking." -- Wakko
Warner, A!

--- Maximus 2.02
 * Origin: The Belching Dragon Inn & Tavern (1:207/804)

Ä [22] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 12 of 57
 From : Brian Henderson                     1:207/804       .îí 10 .þë 95 01:17
 To   : Jack Butler
 Subj : B5 Ripoff: Ds9
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

JB> Personally, Straczynski is so full of it he squeaks.  I want to know
JB> his sources; otherwise, he is just being a profit-minded producer
JB> trying to convince people that his biggest (and much more
JB> successful) competitor isn't as great as people think.

The only one around here who is full of it is you, but you know, Jack,
if you want to know where he gets his statistics, maybe you should
*WRITE TO HIM AND ASK*! Are you so clueless that you can't jump over to
the Internet and post a message to straczynski@genie.geis.com? No,
you'd rather sit there on your pompous behind and claim that he, who has
seen these "non-existent" demographics go across his desk, is a liar.
Jack, if anyone here is full of it, it's the one sitting behind your
keyboard.

___
 X RM 1.3  X Eval Day -17 X Joel: "PMS" * Crow: "Poor Movie Syndrome!", MST3K

--- Maximus 2.02
 * Origin: The Belching Dragon Inn & Tavern (1:207/804)

Ä [22] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 13 of 57
 From : Brian Henderson                     1:207/804       .îí 10 .þë 95 02:09
 To   : Frank Glover
 Subj : B5 Vs St
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

FG> Umm, I give Defiant-class ships more credit than Brian does too (at
FG> least until he says just *what* is poorly designed about them), but
FG> let's not get carried away. In a fair fight (that is, no suprises,
FG> just duking it out), *one* Defiant won't last against a
FG> Galaxy-class.

No offense, but I'm looking at the situation logically (something that
seems to be a dirty word in the Star Trek universe).

Let's look at the time and circumstances that the Defiant was built. A
single Borg ship had just destroyed most of Starfleet (duh, why didn't
the Borg send more ships? It's not like they would have had any
challenge taking over Earth...) The Federation was building the first
dedicated warships (forgetting that the original Enterprise was a
bleeding heavy cruiser, built and intended for conflict). Are we
supposed to believe that they are going to build ships that are inferior
to those (few) that currently exist? It *MUST* have been more powerful
than the Enterprise-D (borne out by the fact that the Defiant survived
while a Galaxy-class ship was blown to smithereens).

Therefore, if we assume that it was at least as powerful as a Galaxy-
class starship, while being much smaller and much more maneuverable, we
have to wonder why it has been so completely outmatched by everything it
has ever encountered. If it is so easily outclassed, why does the
Federation not have a fleet assembled at DS9 as a deterrent against
Dominion attack? Having a fleet hidden somewhere is ridiculous. Once
the Dominion comes through and destroys DS9 and Bajor (which the
Federation is supposed to be protecting), it's a little late to say "Oh,
yeah, we have this fleet over here."

Sheesh.

___
 X RM 1.3  X Eval Day -17 X Why experiment on animals with so many lawyers out
there?

--- Maximus 2.02
 * Origin: The Belching Dragon Inn & Tavern (1:207/804)

Ä [22] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 14 of 57
 From : Brian Henderson                     1:207/804       .îí 10 .þë 95 01:22
 To   : Jeff Hancock
 Subj : B5 Vs St
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

JH> Considering how little of a Trek watcher you are, I'll have to ask
JH> you to explain your reasons for thinking so. I thought you didn't
JH> watch Trek... so did you base your opinion on watching the episodes
JH> in question, or on secondhand commentary tossed around here?

I do try to watch season finales (which is how I saw the Defiant in the
first place), as well as 4-5 episodes per season, mostly when I think my
stomach can take it again. It isn't that I have some irrational hatred
of Trek, it is that Trek just makes me ill.

As a matter of fact, I did see the season finale last year. Is there
anyone who could not predict that the Changelings ran the Dominion after
maybe 20 minutes of the finale? Or who didn't know for a fact that the
crew of the Defiant was in a holosuite?  It was a joke.

Other than that, the Defiant was defined as a failed Federation
experimental warship. Granted, they did have a reason to build one
after the botched Borg attack, but for a ship that was supposed to be
incredibly powerful, it got taken right away By the Dominion. Some
great ship, eh? For a ship that should, by all rights, be more powerful
than the Enterprise-D, it didn't do diddly.

JH> This kind of thing is what makes me doubt you know what you're
JH> talking about here. The controllers of the Dominion *are* the
JH> Changelings, same as Odo. And as has been explained several times,
JH> no Changeling has ever harmed another - although that *changed* in
JH> the season finale. ;) The main reason given for the Dominion not
JH> attacking is because Odo chooses to remain with them ... but that
JH> doesn't stop them from infiltration and trying to get the Alpha
JH> Quadrant races to destroy themselves.

Odo didn't really kill the Changeling, it was a copout making it fall
back against the warp coil. They *SHOULD* have had Odo kill the
Changeling. Instead, as is unfortunately normal, Berman and company
wimped out and made it an accident. What could have been, and should
have been a significant point in Odo's life where he was forced to
choose between his heritage and his duty (not like anyone would wonder
which he would choose), he saved the day in a typical Wesley-esque
maneuver that illustrates clearly all the worst things in the Star Trek
universe.

JH> They have. But they refuse to take him by force, and used trickery
JH> instead; which failed.

That has to be the most ridiculous argument I have ever heard. If so,
then why doesn't the Federation just start sending ships into the
Dominion territory with Odo onboard? They wouldn't *DARE* shoot at
them, would they?  Typical two dimensional characterization

JH> Going by Trek history, you would be right. However, they've already
JH> shown a tendency to deviate from history. Odds are on you, but I
JH> wouldn't call it a sure thing.

I *AM* right. You know, I have this on-going bet with my parents about
the Chicago Cubs winning the World Series. I bet it will never happen
and they bet it will. I haven't lost yet and I have a better chance of
losing *THAT* bet than I do of Star Trek writers ever producing a decent
show.

___
 X RM 1.3  X Eval Day -17 X Immorality will continue until beatings improve.

--- Maximus 2.02
 * Origin: The Belching Dragon Inn & Tavern (1:207/804)

Ä [22] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 15 of 57
 From : Brian Henderson                     1:207/804       .îí 10 .þë 95 02:23
 To   : Frank Eva
 Subj : Ds9 Season 4
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

FE> As you can see, I am not all that enthused about a Star Trek that
FE> relies heavily on the concept of armed conflict to find an audience.
FE> If that's the direction DS9 is taking, that's just another nail in
FE> its coffin for me...

And, if they don't wimp out, a nail *OUT* of the coffin for me. I don't
respect a show that relies on violence for it's audience, but I have
absolutely no respect for a show that hides from violence and pretends
that it doesn't exist when it is called for.

___
 X RM 1.3  X Eval Day -17 X Oxymoron: Private e-mail.

--- Maximus 2.02
 * Origin: The Belching Dragon Inn & Tavern (1:207/804)

Ä [22] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 16 of 57
 From : Brian Henderson                     1:207/804       .îí 10 .þë 95 02:26
 To   : Jeff Hancock
 Subj : Micro Machines
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

JH> I hope this doesn't bode ill for B5 material in general. I haven't
JH> gotten a piece of B5 merchandise yet I haven't had to special-order
JH> in some way, including the books...

No, actually it bodes quite well because it is selling out everywhere.
Exactly the same thing happened to the B5 soundtrack, which stores have
not been able to keep in stock.

___
 X RM 1.3  X Eval Day -17 X "Glad to see things back to normal around here."
Ivanova, B5

--- Maximus 2.02
 * Origin: The Belching Dragon Inn & Tavern (1:207/804)

Ä [22] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 17 of 57
 From : Brian Henderson                     1:207/804       .îí 10 .þë 95 01:56
 To   : Jeff Hancock
 Subj : St Vs. B5
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

JH> But Paramount can't interfere with Warner's contract with JMS or
JH> with PTEN in any way? (aside from putting pressure on syndicated
JH> stations) That's a relief.

Actually, I was wrong. Warner owns the rights to Babylon 5, but JMS
owns the rights to the story that has not yet been filmed. He could
take the story and go elsewhere, he just couldn't call it B5.

And, interestingly enough, Paramount tried to bring pressure to bear
against B5 last season when they started telling TV stations that if
they aired B5, they would not be allowed to show Star Trek. It didn't
work and was a stupid move, both from a legal and a corporate
standpoint.

___
 X RM 1.3  X Eval Day -17 X Here Borgy! Here Borgy! Nice Borgy! Want some
Windows?

--- Maximus 2.02
 * Origin: The Belching Dragon Inn & Tavern (1:207/804)

Ä [22] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 18 of 57
 From : Brian Henderson                     1:207/804       .îí 10 .þë 95 01:58
 To   : Craig Palme
 Subj : Voyager Nose Diving?
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

CP> Hmmm. I see you like B5 also. Too bad Paramont didn't take that
CP> instead of DS9 when they had the chance.

Nah, I'm glad Paramount didn't get their meathooks on B5. It would
never have been the kind of show it is today if they had.

I'll take a lower budget and good writing over Star Trek any day.

___
 X RM 1.3  X Eval Day -17 X Buddhist to salad vendor, "Make me One with
everything"

--- Maximus 2.02
 * Origin: The Belching Dragon Inn & Tavern (1:207/804)

Ä [22] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 19 of 57
 From : Emilio Ares                         1:379/1         .åò 13 .þë 95 14:52
 To   : Frank Glover
 Subj : Re: Book Discusion Group
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE 1.11+

-=>Quoting Frank Glover to Kim Christiansen on 09 Jul 95  08:14:03 about Book
-=>Discusion Group<=-


 KC>  August Book
 KC>
 KC>  Author: Robert Heinlen
 KC>  Title:  Podkayne of Mars  (the book with BOTH endings)
 FG>
 FG> Both endings? There's more than one version? What are the
 FG> differences?
 FG> Frank
 FG>

In the originally submitted ending, Podkayne dies from the atomic bomb
blast.

Emilio



... Those 3 little words that mean so much:  'Klaatu barada nikkto'
--- GEcho 1.11+
 * Origin: The Transporter Room - Online Doom! - 704/567-9513 (1:379/1)

Ä [22] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 20 of 57
 From : Emilio Ares                         1:379/1         .åò 13 .þë 95 14:52
 To   : Greg Mcneil
 Subj : Re: No room for Si-fi..
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE 1.11+

-=>Quoting Greg Mcneil to All on 07 Jul 95  22:00:00 about No room for
-=>Si-fi..<=-

 GM> SO... what do I get in the mail today? Some assinine ad, stateing
 GM> that TCI is going to start picking up the -- SEGA channel..
 GM> No, No room for Science Fiction shows, but a 24 hour boob-tube game
 GM> channel  is something they have room for.
 GM> And yes, they are going to charge extra for it..

How many home shopping channels does your cable company carry?  Ours in
Charlotte, NC carries three by my last count. IMHO that's three too many.
I'd rather they used those channels for something more entertaining like
the History channel or the Tuner Classic Movies channel.  Just about
anything bu infomercials and shopping.

Emilio



... "May all your desires be granted at once." -- Persian Curse
--- GEcho 1.11+
 * Origin: The Transporter Room - Online Doom! - 704/567-9513 (1:379/1)

Ä [22] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 21 of 57
 From : Andrew Clarke                       1:109/369       .pä 12 .þë 95 03:08
 To   : Jason C Marshall
 Subj : Re: Bionic What?
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 JCM> So do I, I thought it was neat also.  Wish it was still on.  The
 JCM> old cartoons were alot better.  Remember G-Force? Starblazers? Captian
 JCM> Harlock? Mighty Orbots?

As mentioned before...Bionic Six is on the Sci-Fi channel every morning (as
far as I know).  Also G-Force is on the Cartoon Network all the time (in case
you didn't know already).

Andrew Clarke


... If a mime committed suicide with a gun, would it use a silencer?
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

--- Maximus/2 2.02
 * Origin: UFOria (Clifton, VA) 703-803-6420 (1:109/369)

Ä [22] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 22 of 57
 From : Andrew Clarke                       1:109/369       .pä 12 .þë 95 03:15
 To   : John Baker
 Subj : Re: Quantum Black Holes?
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 JB> Damn, did I misread Stephen Hawking? I -swear- he said
 JB> they're possible. Actually what I remember is that he said
 JB> they're NOT possible but exist anyway and that scares the
 JB> hell out of him.

I read in a book about black holes 2 years ago that said a very small one could
exist...but it would only last for seconds...maybe less.

Andrew Clarke


... The best way to accelerate Windows is at escape velocity!
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

--- Maximus/2 2.02
 * Origin: UFOria (Clifton, VA) 703-803-6420 (1:109/369)

Ä [22] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 23 of 57
 From : John Kahane                         1:163/198.5     .óá 15 .þë 95 12:53
 To   : Frank Eva
 Subj : Short B5 Season
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
In a message of <Monday July 10 1995 06:40>, Frank Eva scribed:

 FE> This note is in response to all here who want to try to paint
 FE> a happy face on the postponement of the last 4 episodes of
 FE> season 2...

     Well, you are entitled to your opinion on this matter, Frank. :)

 FE> I went back and counted the number of new episodes this
 FE> season; there were just 17! How is it that ANY show produces
 FE> only 17 episodes in an ENTIRE season?

     You can't count, Frank.  Starting with "Points of Departure" and going up
through "Confessions and Lamentations" there have been eighteen episodes in the
second season of BABYLON 5 to this point.

 FE> B5 had 22 episodes in its 1st season! The X-Files had 26 this
 FE> season! Is this what we can expect every year, that in order
 FE> to be able to afford B5, the network will only pay for 17
 FE> episodes?

     I have no idea what you're talking about here, Frank. :)  The final four
episodes of the Season Two material will be airing just before the start of the
third season.  There *are* 22 episodes in the second season of B5, but PTEN has
decided to hold them off from the summer slot and put them into the sweeps
period of the fall.

     For the record, JMS has said many times that he intends to have 22 episodes
for each of the five seasons of BABYLON 5, with the possible exception of Year
Five (and not even necessarily then).

 FE> Juggling their schedule in order to avoid conflicting with
 FE> the start of new episodes of competing series is the kind of
 FE> rookie mistake we have come to expect out of PTEN, and now
 FE> it's pretty much guaranteed another short year for B5 next
 FE> season! Now try to put a good "spin" on this bad decision
 FE> PTEN made!

     Frankly, you've made two mistakes here.  First of all, PTEN is not a
network in the classic sense of the term like NBC or CBS; they are a company
that sells a television show or whatever directly to individual stations and the
like.  Thus, they don't directly compete in terms of when to show the new
episodes, since they can only make a suggestion to the stations to which they
sell the shows.  If they don't get the complete episodes to the stations before
a certain date, that makes it easier for them to "control" the air dates, but
that's not something that PTEN seems to have a lot of control over.  Witness all
the markets where B5 is shown at midnight or early in morning...

     Secondly, the "short year" business is a misnomer.  JMS is producing 22
episodes of B5 per year; that's his plan.  The B5 season isn't starting in
September to begin with (it's starting in late October or early November), so
the season goes longer to begin with.  Given some of the production times
required for certain CGI and the like of some episodes, we don't get to see
continuous weeks of new episodes; we get seven or eight of them, followed by
several repeats...this is not necessarily good for the series, but it's
something that makes a lot of sense in that context.

     However, there's really one other central point to make here.  Regardless
of whether it's a "good spin" or a "bad spin" or whether it's a good or bad
decision on PTEN's part, the decision has been made.  Even JMS was unable to
convince the PTEN p-t-bs to change their minds on this; and apparently, he did
try.  I think whether this happens again for the fourth season is dependent on
what happens when the episodes air, to be honest with you.  And whether B5 is
renewed for a fourth season, of course.  And *that's* something else to start
thinking about...

     John
.....
Stir the cup that's ever filling with the blood of all that's born.

--- GoldED/2 2.42.G0614
 * Origin: JohnK's OS/2Warp Point - Ottawa, Ontario (1:163/198.5)

Ä [22] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 24 of 57
 From : John Kahane                         1:163/198.5     .óá 15 .þë 95 12:42
 To   : Ecarey
 Subj : Plot Borrowing on TV
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
In a message of <Friday July 07 1995 07:33>, Ecarey scribed:

 JK> JK>>> It seems the Federation will have a bit more on its mind
 JK> JK>>> than just the Dominion - they'll have to deal with the
 JK> JK>>> end of the Federation/Klingon peace treaty!  Gee, it
 JK> JK>>> sounds like the folks at ST: DSN are about to bring a
 JK> JK>>> war into the storyline... I wonder where they got the
 JK> JK>>> idea from? :)
 JK> MJ>> I wonder.
 JK>> Neither of us are *really* wondering about this at all, Mark,
 JK>> but it seems =awfully= coincidental, doesn't it? <g>

 E> Yeah, nobody ever came up with the idea of a "space war" before
 E> JMS, did they?  Even Doc Smith stole JMS' idea, complete with
 E> one set of all-powerful good aliens and an opposing set of
 E> all-powerful evil aliens, both manipulating humanity and every
 E> other race they can find in pursuit of their conflict. You know,
 E> that awful ripoff of B5, "The Lensmen Series" ? :)

     hehe  Exactly right, Elisabeth. :)  To be honest with you, however, I
think that it can't be all that much of a coincidence that the folks over at DSN
are about to start this whole potential "war footing" thing after it's been
established, and done relatively successfully, over on B5.  I'm not saying they
ripped off the plan to do so or anything like that...but it does seem *terribly*
convenient to me...

     John
.....
Whilst I appreciate you are no deviate, I might come to some harm.

--- GoldED/2 2.42.G0614
 * Origin: JohnK's OS/2Warp Point - Ottawa, Ontario (1:163/198.5)

Ä [22] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 25 of 57
 From : John Kahane                         1:163/198.5     .óá 15 .þë 95 12:45
 To   : Ecarey
 Subj : B5 POSTPONED
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
In a message of <Friday July 07 1995 07:33>, Ecarey scribed:

 E> They can't advertise them in October as "all-new episodes" if
 E> they've already aired them in July.  This would make a big
 E> difference to both the advertisers and to the more casual
 E> viewers - there's no gain over competing series if B5 only has
 E> reruns in October, ESPECIALLY if ST:VOYAGER is running NEW
 E> episodes.

     And yet by its very nature, PTEN has decided to show these episodes in
Britain (and possibly Europe) right after the Tour de France; the first episode
airs July 25th.  That means the episodes aren't "all-new episodes" other than in
North America, and the NA fans are the ones getting the shaft here for some
reason.  Most of the series out there will start their new seasons some time in
September or whatever.  Why not air the four episodes at that point?

 E> And what JMS \said\ that everyone seems to have forgotten, is
 E> that UPN's decision to hold the last four Voyager episodes until
 E> the fall \preceded\ and \precipitated\ PTEN's decision to do the
 E> same with B5.

     Except there is also the fact that VOYAGER was a mid-season entry to begin
with, and there have only been fifteen episodes to this point in its "first
season."  I guess it comes down to the fact that we don't know the real reasons
behind the UPN and PTEN decisions on this, but it seems as if the two companies
want to go head-to-head with the shows.

 E> The British market works differently and different marketing
 E> conditions apply, on the one hand, and on the other hand, as a
 E> practical matter, they KNOW there won't be enough people getting
 E> usable bootleg copies to matter - especially as, as was commented
 E> above, the diehard fans will watch the October broadcast of the
 E> episodes REGARDLESS of whether they've seen them before.

     Everything you say above is true, Elisabeth...  There's also the other
consideration; assuming that the four episodes air in a row, they won't finish
showing until August 15th.  Depending on the mailing times to NA, the time it
takes to convert the Brit tape to NA format, the time it takes to mail the tapes
to friends and all, there's a good chance that one wouldn't see the bootlegs
before the episodes start to air on NA television to begin with.

     John
.....
Deep red are the sunsets in mystical places.

--- GoldED/2 2.42.G0614
 * Origin: JohnK's OS/2Warp Point - Ottawa, Ontario (1:163/198.5)

Ä [22] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 26 of 57
 From : Starwolf                            1:163/214       .óá 15 .þë 95 01:49
 To   : Judy Hayes
 Subj : Destructed plots
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 St> He'd better get used to it.  Asimov, who's got a higher grounding in
 St> science, got nailed by obsolete plot devices more often than niven
 JH> That's only to be expected since Asimov wrote 10 times
 JH> more than......anyone.

But he's also got more science training than almost anyone else, too.  So, he
ought to have even less of 'miss' record than others, in spite of a large body
of work.  I think it isn't so much that he wrote more, but that he wrote for
such a long time. Many accepted tenets had the chance to get knocked down.


--- Maximus 2.01wb
 * Origin: Land of Ill Repute (1:163/214)

Ä [22] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 27 of 57
 From : Starwolf                            1:163/214       .óá 15 .þë 95 01:53
 To   : Phill Ash
 Subj : No bat car!!!!!!
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
I fear I have no solid data about the original TV Batcar.  The show has been
rerun in the area, though, and I do rather like the thing.


--- Maximus 2.01wb
 * Origin: Land of Ill Repute (1:163/214)

Ä [22] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 28 of 57
 From : Steve Wright                        1:3666/501      .ÿò 14 .þë 95 11:54
 To   : All
 Subj : Worf
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
He is back, and will be returning to Deep Space Nine in their new
season!!
--- Platinum Xpress/Wildcat! [TESTDRIVE] v1.0TD [TESTDRIVE]
 * Origin: MTCC BBS!  704-652-0330  (1:3666/501) (1:3666/501)

Ä [22] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 29 of 57
 From : Frank Eva                           1:154/750       .cê 16 .þë 95 08:05
 To   : Jeff Schlenker
 Subj : DS9 Season 4
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: FastEcho 1.45 8060

JS> FE> Agreed! Some of my favorite TNG eps were those in which The
JS> FE> Federation was up against The Borg! However, I just don't take
JS> FE> anything they promise about DS9 as gospel. They seemed to be
JS> FE> promising a new direction  last season, but after those horrible
JS> FE> first few episodes, I knew their  "new direction" was going no
JS> FE> where it hadn't already.

JS>Hmmmm, how about a new opening monologue for DS9.  (Or Voyager, for
JS>that matter.)

JS>...to boldly go where previous incarnations of Star Trek shows have
JS>...gone before!

I'll change that "boldly" to chickenheartedly! :-)

---
 * Origin: *YOPS ]I[* 3.1 GIG * RA/FD/FE RADist * Milwaukee, WI (1:154/750)

Ä [22] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 30 of 57
 From : Frank Eva                           1:154/750       .cê 16 .þë 95 08:05
 To   : Greg Mcneil
 Subj : Short B5 Season
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: FastEcho 1.45 8060

GM> FE> Even WITH the 4 episodes that were postponed, we still wouldn't
GM> FE> have a full season... in the traditional sense of the term (but
GM> FE> it would have at least been close to season #1). Juggling their
GM> FE> schedule in order to avoid conflicting with the start of new
GM> FE> episodes of competing series is  the kind of rookie mistake we
GM> FE> have come to expect out of PTEN, and now  it's pretty much
GM> FE> guaranteed another short year for B5 next season! Now  try to
GM> FE> put a good "spin" on this bad decision PTEN made!

GM>And I always thought it meant:

GM>P-Part
GM>T-Time
GM>E-Entertainment
GM>N-Network.
GM>
GM>Notice the first 2 words?

:-) That sure is a much more apropos description, considering how little
(comparatively speaking) original "entertainment" they're willing to
actually pay for...

--- CMPQwk 1.42-R2 #145 ---
Exotic Psychic caught in fire: Rare Medium Well-Done

---
 * Origin: *YOPS ]I[* 3.1 GIG * RA/FD/FE RADist * Milwaukee, WI (1:154/750)

Ä [22] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 31 of 57
 From : Frank Eva                           1:154/750       .cê 16 .þë 95 08:05
 To   : Robert Parson
 Subj : Short B5 Season
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: FastEcho 1.45 8060

RP> FE> at least been close to season #1). Juggling their schedule in
RP> FE> order to avoid conflicting with the start of new episodes of
RP> FE> competing series is  the kind of rookie mistake we have come to
RP> FE> expect out of PTEN, and now  it's pretty much guaranteed another
RP> FE> short year for B5 next season! Now  try to put a good "spin" on
RP> FE> this bad decision PTEN made!

RP>I think PTEN made a bad decision.

Thank you!

RP>But whether B5 has 21 or 22 episodes this season is not going to
RP>bring  the missing children back home.

Obviously. I think we should be prepared for the worst, however; a 5
year story arc spread out over 6 or more TV "seasons".

RP>Back off.  Take it easy.  Chill out.  It's just a show.  Keep it in
RP>perspective with the REAL world rather than the tunnelvision of Star
RP>Trek vs Babylon 5.

I have never been a "trek vs B5" type of person. I like them both. What
I don't have any stomach for is the disappointment suffered when this
rookie "network" made another bad decision that echo-users tried to put
a good spin on. If JMS is REALLY as ticked off about this as everyone
seems to think, there's simply NO WAY to put a good spin on this
decision, and to expect me to do so to placate those users on this echo
who think otherwise is just not in the cards.

---
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 Msg  : 32 of 57
 From : John Baker                          1:363/148       .îí 10 .þë 95 21:25
 To   : Patrick Long
 Subj : Re: Out to sea...
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 > -=>3. Relative bearing grease. -yes, there is such a thing, but it has to

The Boy Scouts useta send people after Left-Handed Smoke Shifters...
---
 * Origin: Infinite Space...Interactive...407-856-0021 (1:363/148)

Ä [22] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 33 of 57
 From : Jack Butler                         1:363/309       .îí 10 .þë 95 03:45
 To   : Marc Zingarelli
 Subj : Highlander TV guide.
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 Quoth Marc Zingarelli, "Nevermore".

 MZ> Did ya happen to see next weeks tv guide yet?

     Yep.  Interesting piece, but I'd already heard about everything in
it... and dropped the word on the echo, for that matter.


 MZ> Nice article about highlander in it, confirming some of what you said.

     <rubbing fingernails on shirt>  What can I say?  I'm amazing.  <G>


 MZ> To the anti-Anne crowd, look for a  reconciliation, he he he!  I'm a
 MZ> little disturbed about the rift between  Duncan and Joe though.  All in
 MZ> all this could make next season the best so  far.

     Actually, there may or may not be reconciliation, but there's going to
be *closure*, one way or another.  The rift between Duncan and Joe... heh.
No, I'm not going to say it.  Just wait and see.
     And the attitude is this:  "This just might be our last season, so lets
kick some ass and take some names while we're doing it!"

     Jack Butler



... "Otherwise, we're all on CNN!" -- Kalas
--- FMail 0.98a
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Ä [22] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 34 of 57
 From : Jack Butler                         1:363/309       .îí 10 .þë 95 03:45
 To   : Steven Wesen
 Subj : Kilmer as Batman
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 Quoth Steven Wesen, "Nevermore".

 SW> They aready showed the Scarecrow and he is the actor who plays ODO on
 SW> DS9.

     Not quite correct.  Rene Aberjenois (the actor who plays Odo) does the
voice of the Scarecrow on the cartoon.  In the third movie, he played Dr.
Burton, the director of Arkham Asylum.  Dr. Burton is *not* the Scarecrow.

     Jack Butler



... "I killed you!" -- Alice    "I got better." -- Freddy Krueger
--- FMail 0.98a
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Ä [22] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 35 of 57
 From : Jack Butler                         1:363/309       .îí 10 .þë 95 03:45
 To   : Jeff Hancock
 Subj : B5 Novels and So Forth
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 Quoth Jeff Hancock, "Nevermore".

 JH> I don't suppose you read the B5 echo, do you? There have been some
 JH> forwarded messages from JMS covering this... Unless you want to take
 JH> Mr. Butler's stance of assuming everything he says is self-serving and
 JH> suspect, he's just as ticked off as you or me or any other fan is
 JH> about the delay, but none of the support so far has made a difference.
 JH> Bother your affiliate about it.

     Jeff, if you're going to talk about me, get it right.  I never said
everything he says is self-serving and suspect, I said everything he says
*sounds* self-serving, and that without supporting proof, I will consider
everything he says suspect.  Big difference.

     Jack Butler



... "A momentary lapse of treason..." -- Pink Fraud
--- FMail 0.98a
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Ä [22] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 36 of 57
 From : Jack Butler                         1:363/309       .îí 10 .þë 95 03:45
 To   : Jeff Hancock
 Subj : DS9 Season 4
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 Quoth Jeff Hancock, "Nevermore".

     Re:  Armed Conflict on DS9.

 JH> and assuming bad of Paramount for yet again "borrowing" from B5...

     Its funny.  Last year, when they revealed that Odo's people headed the
Dominion, my then-roommate Chris Paul said, and I quote, "If they ever
decide to invade, the first thing they'll do is infiltrate and start causing
trouble.  Probably tick some Klingons off at the Federation..."

     In other words, the Founders using their shapeshifting to stir the
pot is an obvious plot angle, and has been since the Founders were
introduced.

     So I agree with you... taking this new development and calling it
a rip from B5 is nonsense.

     We'll see what we will see.  I'm optimistic, at least.

     Jack Butler



... "Perhaps it should be I who dominates from now on." -- Data
--- FMail 0.98a
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Ä [22] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 37 of 57
 From : Jack Butler                         1:363/309       .åò 13 .þë 95 01:42
 To   : John Baker
 Subj : Out to sea...
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 Quoth John Baker, "Nevermore".

 JB> The Boy Scouts useta send people after Left-Handed Smoke Shifters...

     I *personally* have sent privates on long searches for cans of squelch
and boxes of grid squares.

     Jack Butler



... "He don't look like Bela..." -- Tor Johnson
--- FMail 0.98a
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Ä [22] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 38 of 57
 From : Jack Butler                         1:363/309       .åò 13 .þë 95 01:42
 To   : Ecarey
 Subj : STAR TREK/APPEASEMENT??
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 Quoth Ecarey, "Nevermore".

 E> However, I suspect that their silence can be adequately explained by the
 E> fact that the immature-brat races aren't bothering the Organians by
 E> staging their tantrums on the Organians' homeworld any more

     Makes sense to me.  After all, when you boil what the Organians had
been trying to tell Kirk down to the bare essentials, it reads "Don't bother
us."
     The kids bothered, and the grownups took their toys away... and now
that the grownups aren't being bothered any more, they couldn't care less
what the kids are up to.

     Jack Butler



... "I won't be able to sit for a week!" -- Banzai
--- FMail 0.98a
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Ä [22] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 39 of 57
 From : Dino Pantazopoulos                  1:324/272       .ÿò 14 .þë 95 18:27
 To   : Brian Henderson
 Subj : rip off? yes. On purpose? no.
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Yes Babylon 5 did rip off Star Trek. But star Trek TNG is so cool
and had all the cool ideas first. So you see they couldn't prevent those
lame hand communicators cuz the cool cheast ones were taken...I'm
babbling so I'll shutup. B5 is shallow but getting better

---
 * Origin: Orion BBS    "Where the Stars Hangout!  508-970-4936 (1:324/272)

Ä [22] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 40 of 57
 From : Ecarey                              1:101/230       .åò 13 .þë 95 11:35
 To   : Frank Glover
 Subj : RE: BOOK DISCUSION GROUP
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 > KC>  August Book
 > KC>
 > KC>  Author: Robert Heinlen
 > KC>  Title:  Podkayne of Mars  (the book with BOTH endings)
 >
 FG>    Both endings? There's more than one version? What are the
 > differences?

In the ending as Heinlein originally wrote it, Podkayne dies.  His editor didn't
like that ending, though, and insisted he rewrite it so that Podkayne lives.
It's the Podkayne-lives ending that was originally published; a couple of years
ago, Baen brought out an edition with BOTH endings, and a contest to determine
which ending would be in all future editions.

--- FLAME v1.0
 * Origin: Withouta Net - Drop In Anytime! - 617/846-5416 (1:101/230)

Ä [22] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 41 of 57
 From : Ecarey                              1:101/230       .åò 13 .þë 95 11:41
 To   : Starwolf
 Subj : DESTRUCTED PLOTS
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 > JW>Larry Niven is said to have been very disappointed when he
 > JW>learned that his Hugo award winning story no longer made
 > JW>sense...
 >
 S> He'd better get used to it.  Asimov, who's got a higher grounding in
 > science, got nailed by obsolete plot devices more often than niven
 > ever
 > did.

A) You're reacting to "Niven is said to have" as if it were a definitely-factual
statement

B) Is no one allowed to express disappointment in anything anymore? Assuming the
above statement accurately reflects Larry Niven's feelings [which seems quite
plausible], we're talking about a writer who worked \very hard\ to keep his
stories scientifically reasonable expressing "disappointment" that one of his
most successful stories has since \become\ scientific nonsense. Not outrage,
horror, or feelings of suicidal depression - just "disappointment". A mild and
moderate reaction, I would have thought.

C) Larry Niven actually has quite a thorough grounding in the physical sciences.

--- FLAME v1.0
 * Origin: Withouta Net - Drop In Anytime! - 617/846-5416 (1:101/230)

Ä [22] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 42 of 57
 From : Jeff Hancock                        1:3600/7        .pä 12 .þë 95 23:20
 To   : Chris Carter
 Subj : And Now A Word.......
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

CC> JH> But what about the damaged Starfury in _All Alone in the Night_
CC> JH>that only had two working engines, yet all four fired to send it
CC>Yeah.  This one causes no end of bafflement.  I don't have an answer

My guess is that it was damaged and had a very limited amount of
runtime; and the computer used some of that time for that burst of
thrust... or, it's some quirk of the jumpgate system.

Here's a question which just now occurred to me, during "Points of
Departure", the Minbari cruiser cut off the stern of the Trigati before
it could enter the jump point, but why didn't inertia cause it to cruise
into the gate? If I remember correctly, the gate stayed open for a
fairly short length of time after that attack was completed, which makes
one wonder what would happen if it had started to enter the corridor as
it was just about to collapse. On the other hand, Ivanova said "they
can't make jump", so I suppose some form of engine is required. Are
there any episodes where someone has sent anything without a thruster
through a jumpgate (aside from being towed)? And if someone fired energy
weapons into a jump corridor at a departing ship?

CC> CC> certainly a lot of lights on the ends of poles protruding from
CC> CC>the Earthforce jumpship though.
CC> JH> Hadn't really noticed... Wonder what the practical purpose of
CC> JH>those is supposed to be?
CC>Probably the same as putting lights on the ends of radio towers; so
CC>passing starfuries don't run into the antannae.

<sigh> The poles, not the lights. If they are radio or some other form
of antenna, there seems to be far too many even for the military
"backups in triplicate" SOP.
-=-
 * Crazy-J * Electrons are very small,but they can gang up & hurt you.

--- SLMAIL v3.5C  (#1540)
 * Origin: Robotech þ Lake City's Music*Demo BBS þ [904] 758*9477 (1:3600/7)

Ä [22] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 43 of 57
 From : Jeff Hancock                        1:3600/7        .pä 12 .þë 95 23:48
 To   : Chris Carter
 Subj : Vorlon Immortality
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

CC> JH> But considering the circumstances, how can they justifiably
CC> JH>remain a major race, and hence stay on the council? If things
CC>It may be that a "grandfather clause" comes into effect, rendering it

Could be. I don't know about the wisdom of such a clause, but....

CC>extremely difficult, if not impossible, to remove a council member
CC>from its position regardless of dramatic change in its status (i.e.,

"And I, as the sole remaining member of the Zzgryf race, demand..."

CC>And, if said major race has colonies, than the loss of its homeworld,
CC>while significant, my not be utterly crippling.

Depends on how this war is being waged. Considering jumpgate technology
and the nature of space combat in general, the Centauri may be taking
out the Narn colonies in a gradually shrinking more-or-less sphere
centering on their homeworld, rather than a wall of destruction which
would leave all Narn colonies on the opposite side of Narn from the
Centauri Empire intact. Besides which, who says the Centauri would stop
at the homeworld? ... assuming the rest of the races don't gang up and
obliterate them, which seems likely.
-=-
 * Crazy-J * I planted bird seed-A bird came up-Now what do I feed it?

--- SLMAIL v3.5C  (#1540)
 * Origin: Robotech þ Lake City's Music*Demo BBS þ [904] 758*9477 (1:3600/7)

Ä [22] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 44 of 57
 From : Greg Mcneil                         1:228/500       .åò 13 .þë 95 04:25
 To   : Steven Wesen
 Subj : Re: Sci-Fi Channel
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

-=> Steven Wesen Commented to Greg Mcneil about Re: Sci-Fi Channel <=-

 SW> Call Primestar or get a Dss System from RCA and tell TCI to go away.
 SW> I have the same problem with my system Warner Cable and I plan to get
 SW> a Big Satellite Dish. Steve(Merlyn)

Thinking about it.. but you see, I have this huge, Hi-tension power line
running thru the back yard, which is attached to the sub-station about
900 feet down the line.



... Babylon 5. -  It is definatly NOT StarTrek.
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
 * Origin: |=[Bloom Co. Hospital>=--- |[GRapids,MI] (616)361-8345 (1:228/500)

Ä [22] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 45 of 57
 From : Walter Sorrell                      1:3637/77       .åò 06 .þë 95 22:00
 To   : All
 Subj : SLIDERS
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
     There has plenty of messages of people commenting on the
possibility of traveling backward through time and meeting yourself and
the universe
blows up.
     Well, the "the same matter cannot occupy the same space at the same
time" theory may not apply to people since we are continuously shedding
our skin and virtually every cell in our body is replaced after about
eight months.  Though I can not quote any sources in to back up this
statement (since I do not remember where I read this little tidbit) but
I am fairly sure that I am right.
     Then again considering the cyclic nature of the food chain (dust
mites eat the skin and a larger animal eats them and on up through the
chain, or we could just inhale the mites and reuse the atoms that
originally made up our bodies).  Whoa, this could make a good thesis for
collage!
     And of course, I realise that the Sliders are not traveling though
time but are "sidestepping" through different realities.

     Later,
          Walter S.
---
--- WcToss for WildCat!  V1.8 [UnReg]
 * Origin: Coles Kingdom BBS 615-657-5708 14.4KBPS! (1:3637/77)

Ä [22] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 46 of 57
 From : Jack Butler                         1:363/309       .ÿò 14 .þë 95 09:16
 To   : John Kahane
 Subj : B5 Comic Down
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 Quoth John Kahane, "Nevermore".

 JK> Well, I can certainly sympathize with JMS in this regard, to be
 JK> honest.

     Wrong attitude for him to take, if he honestly is feeling this way.  He
ought to be trying to make Warners very happy, within the limits of his own
production principles.  Letting Warner's profit margin increase is a sure
way of insuring his series continues.

     Jack Butler



... "Now I wish I hadn't written so many tank games." -- Flynn
--- FMail 0.98a
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Ä [22] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 47 of 57
 From : Jack Butler                         1:363/309       .ÿò 14 .þë 95 09:16
 To   : Ecarey
 Subj : DS9 SEASON 4
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 Quoth Ecarey, "Nevermore".

 Ec> [For those who think he did, go look for the "Lensmen" series by E.E.
 Ec> Smith - you'll have to try libraries and used book stores, because he
 Ec> started writing the series in the thirties, and the last book was
 Ec> published in the fifties. They're out of print now, but most longterm
 Ec> fans of sf have read them.]

     I got another one for you:  one of de Bergerac's stories deals with a
war between the inhabitants of Mars and Venus, fought mostly in the space
between.  Of course, de Bergerac had the respective fighters using sailing
ships, but what they hey, he wrote it in the 1500's.

     Jack Butler



... "Babies are the enemy of the human race." -- Isaac Asimov
--- FMail 0.98a
 * Origin: Forethought BBS -=- 1:363/309 -=- 407-277-7530 (1:363/309)

Ä [22] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 48 of 57
 From : Ken Mayes                           1:393/7         .cê 16 .þë 95 05:26
 To   : Brian Henderson
 Subj : Re: B5 VS ST
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On Mon 10-Jul-1995  2:09a, Brian Henderson said to Frank Glover:

BH> Therefore, if we assume that it was at least as powerful as a Galaxy-
BH> class starship, while being much smaller and much more maneuverable, we
BH> have to wonder why it
BH>  * Origin: The Belching Dragon Inn & Tavern (1:207/804)

        So far, the Defiant has only been outclassed in one battle. The first
one it fought against the Dominion, and in that battle it was outnumbered. Even
the Yamato would have fallen in a battle with a hundred PT boats.
        Again when Thomas Riker went up against the Cardasians, the Defiant made
a good showing. It wasn't until it was cornered and surrounded by overwhelming
forces that defeat seemed inevitable. And even then Riker pointed out that the
Cardasians would pay a heavy price.
        In the third season finale, the Defiant flew into a Dominion Armada,
blew away eight...possibly nine Dominion ships, rescued Odo and Garak, then flew
out again intact. So I fail to understand why you seem to feel it's outmatched.




--- CNet/3
 * Origin: The Bard's Tavern Denton, TX (817)243-5110 USR 28.8   (1:393/7)

Ä [22] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 49 of 57
 From : Ken Mayes                           1:393/7         .cê 16 .þë 95 05:34
 To   : Brian Henderson
 Subj : Re: St Vs. B5
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On Mon 10-Jul-1995  1:56a, Brian Henderson said to Jeff Hancock:

BH> And, interestingly enough, Paramount tried to bring pressure to bear
BH> against B5 last season when they started telling TV stations that if
BH> they aired B5, they would not be allowed to show Star Trek. It didn't
BH> work and was a stupid move, both from a legal and a corporate
BH> standpoint.



        I find that hard to believe. In the Dallas/Fort Worth market, Paramount
OWNS the local UPN affiliate channel 21 outright. They show B-5. They've showed
B-5 ever since the 2 hour pilot. If Paramount truly wanted B-5 bumped off of
their stations, they could easily have done it here in one of the largest
television markets in the country. They didn't. In fact, it would actually make
more sense for them to try and keep B-5 on the same stations that Trek is on.
That way the two shows can't directly compete against each other.
        In fact the more I think about it, the more impossible to believe it is.
I wouldn't put it past JMS to put that story out, though. Nothing stirs up
ratings better than old fashioned controversy.



--- CNet/3
 * Origin: The Bard's Tavern Denton, TX (817)243-5110 USR 28.8   (1:393/7)

Ä [22] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 50 of 57
 From : Kay Shapero                         1:102/524       .óá 15 .þë 95 20:14
 To   : Frank Eva
 Subj : Short B5 Season
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Jul 13 15:10>, Frank Eva (1:154/750) wrote to Kay Shapero:

 FE>22 is still less than other series. If JMS' 5 year story arc is
 FE>based on
 FE>22 eps/season, that's like admitting it will be more like a 4
 FE>year story arc.

It'll cover 5 years, it's a 5 year arc. :->  Personally I'm getting more out of
22 eps per season than considerably more of various other shows.

--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [22] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 51 of 57
 From : Kay Shapero                         1:102/524       .óá 15 .þë 95 22:44
 To   : John Kahane
 Subj : Conversation started on B5
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Jul 14 10:22>, John Kahane (1:163/198.5) wrote to Kay Shapero:

 JK>     Sure thing, Kay...  Since you started it over on the B5
 JK>echo, you get to "start it" here again...  <g>

OK - what do you want to hear first?  I believe we were discussing the myriad
ways time travel can tie you up in knots.  Considering that in Nicolai's Other
Suns campaign we've got both single line and Paratemporal time travel to
consider...

Let's see... there was the way T'Isan got shanghaied into the Paratemporal Arm.
She was arrested on a charge of treason, demoted ten or so steps in rank,
shipped off base, briefed, and sent on a mission back in time (I don't even
recall what it was at the moment), after which she returned as a full fledged
Paratemporal Officer at the new rank (which WAS the equivalent - PA ranks are
different from Star Arm ones), and the arrest turned out to have never happened.
Literally - she and those involved in the mission were the only ones to remember
it because a time shift had been done.  The Arm likes to shake it's officers up
at the start to see how they react.  Sometimes it does it later in their careers
too. :->

This event is also notable for being one of the few times in history that a
Shaltuan was actually REAL useful.  OK - a bit of history.  Shaltuans are an
interesting bunch.  They're sorta reptilian, with a strong honor code that
strikes the rest of the universe as a mite dippy, but suits them just fine.
Shaltuans are shorter lived than humans, and there are those who feel that they
probably would be even if they were physically capable of lasting as long, since
they've a tendancy to get into trouble both from the aforementioned honor code,
and because a lot of them like to be pilots.  Shaltuan pilots take off and fly
just fine, the problem generally comes in when they land.  Mind you, this was
not intentional, it's just that the Dice Know - it seemed like every time a
Shaltuan pilot set out to land something, regardless of who was playing him, the
ship took damage, or actually crashed.  The general assumption this bit of
gamelore ultimately led to was that all Shaltuans really, deep down, want to be
kamikaze pilots.  Seems about right to me.

Well, Shaltuans are Very Loyal to their commanders.  And for her sins, Tuu Ira
Isan had one assigned to the AVS Firewing back before she got tapped by
Paratemporal.  So suddenly she had this half-pint lizard samurai at her heels
practically everywhere she went, usually trying to do something that would Not
be a good idea.  Like carrying a flag with the pack Tuu symbol on it whilst
following her (something that would have been politically far TOO interesting).
Or.. but I digress.  Suffice it to say that he proved a marvelous source of
diplomacy practice all the times it was necessary to turn him away from some bit
of honorable idiocy without his deciding on suicide.  At least he never landed
the Firewing - T'Isan assigned him his own personal in-system fighter and gave
him permission to paint his personal symbol on it which kept him out of trouble
for awhile anyway.

Well, when T'Isan walked down that corridor and was ambushed out of the blue by
the guys with the treason charge, the ONLY reason she managed to keep her temper
long enough to realize something weird was up was the fact that that Shaltuan
was RIGHT behind her, and if she'd said one word of anger or resistance, he
would have CERTAINLY come charging to the rescue and got himself killed.  So you
see, there's a use for everything... :->

--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [22] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 52 of 57
 From : Mark Jones                          1:105/302.47    .ÿò 14 .þë 95 18:26
 To   : Frank Eva
 Subj : Short B5 Season
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On (13 Jul 95) Frank Eva wrote to Kay Shapero...

 FE> KS>Adding the 4 brings the total to 22, same as the first season.
 FE>
 FE> 22 is still less than other series. If JMS' 5 year story arc is
 FE> based on 22 eps/season, that's like admitting it will be more
 FE> like a 4 year story arc. Consider that the X-Files gave its fans
 FE> 26 eps/season; 4 eps/season times 5 seasons is almost enough to
 FE> do another "year" of the story!

It's my understanding that 22 episodes constitutes a standard season
for many programs.  Yes, X-Files may have done 26--but so what?  Many
other shows (Sliders, VR5 and a lot non-SF programs) did a lot *less*
than 22 episodes this season.

Sure, I'd like to have more new B5 episodes every season--but given
the short shrift a lot of other series got, I'm content with a "mere"
twenty-two.


--- PPoint 1.78
 * Origin: HQ of World Domination, Inc. (1:105/302.47)

Ä [22] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 53 of 57
 From : Myra I Fox                          1:123/10        .ÿò 14 .þë 95 20:26
 To   : Tony Trujillo
 Subj : Red Dwarf
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 TT> Thanks for the info! I hope that something solid does come
 TT> out of this. I've been aching for new RD for too long! :^)

If I come across any newer info I'll pass it along to you.
I scan through the WHO echo regularly.  I'm not only a
Doctor Who and Red Dwarf fan, but I kinda like that Steve
Quarrella guy too  <g>.  I also got to meet a fan who lives
here in Memphis by "meeting" him on the WHO echo.  He loaned
me about six tapes so I could get introduced to William
Hartnell, Patrick Troughton and see some more of Jon
Pertwee.

He has on one of the tapes a short sort of documentary
called RESISTANCE IS USELESS.  It has lots of short clips
from the episodes.

 TT> If only we could get that bastard Norman to move to
 TT> England! :^)

Where does he live ?

 TT> I'd really love to see him back in the roll as Holly...I
 TT> like Hattie but she just doesn't have the dead pan delivery
 TT> that Norman did.

I have heard that she is a really good stand up comic, maybe
the writers just didn't take into account *her* special
talents that would have made the role into something that
was funnier.  Maybe I'm wrong, but that is just a feeling I
had about her in the part of Holly.


... TroughtonDOS 2.0:  "When I say RUN, RUN!"
---
 * Tag-X Pro v1.20 *
--- RA/FD/FMail
 * Origin: The Electric Fox - Memphis,TN, U.S.A.  1-901-327-1008 (1:123/10)

Ä [22] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 54 of 57
 From : Judy Hayes                          1:154/40        .cê 16 .þë 95 16:27
 To   : Starwolf
 Subj : Re: Destructed plots
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 -=> As SWAN finally returned to the 'Net she heard this:
 St> He'd better get used to it.  Asimov, who's got a higher grounding in
 St> science, got nailed by obsolete plot devices more often than niven
 JH> That's only to be expected since Asimov wrote 10 times
 JH> more than......anyone.

 St> But he's also got more science training than almost anyone else, too.
 St> So, he ought to have even less of 'miss' record than others, in spite
 St> of a large body of work.  I think it isn't so much that he wrote more,
 St> but that he wrote for such a long time. Many accepted tenets had the
 St> chance to get knocked down.

This is also true.  The more and longer you write the better chance that you
will be proved wrong in something.

      --SWAN




... File not found, I'll load something *I* think is interesting.
---
 * Origin: Anonymous BBS -=- Non plus Ultra -=- 414-251-2580 (1:154/40)

Ä [22] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 55 of 57
 From : Dan Martin                          1:3666/501      .cê 16 .þë 95 10:36
 To   : Sean Caszatt
 Subj : Re: Red Dwarf
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

SC>->         I've never seen the American pilot, so I can't really make an
  >-> judgement there. Although the idea of Terry Farrel as the Cat does so
  >-> intriguing. But...if they had done an American version of the series,
  >-> the original actors...and Grant and Naylor as series writers, it woul
  >-> been something to see. In my opinion it would've rivalled Trek in syn
  >-> But...it was not to be...unfortunately. (At the very least we might h
  >-> 26 episodes per season instead of a measely 6. Granted those 6 are be
  >-> most American offerings...and possibly if there were more, they would
  >-> funny per minute of airtime, (spreading the humor throughout the epis
  >-> were). Oh well.

SC>I haven't seen the pilot either, but as is the case with most things
  >that were originally done in other countries and then "Americanized"
  >(ie. brought down to the lowest common denominator), I'm sure it would
  >have sucked.

SC>With the original cast and writers, it may have been better...but as
  >you said they'd have to spread the laughs over more episode.  I think
  >we're better off with what we have now!


SC>--- Platinum Xpress/Wildcat! v1.0h
  > * Origin: Project Aurora - The Truth is Out There! - (1:2601/512)





I have the sixth season and the american pilot, along with the smeg-ups
and tongue tied video. I can send copies for a nominal cost...
---
 * OLXWin 1.00a * Better dead than smeg!
 * Origin: MTCC BBS!   Marion, NC   (704)652-0330 (1:3666/501)

Ä [22] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 56 of 57
 From : Phill Ash                           1:275/160       .cê 16 .þë 95 08:47
 To   : Starwolf
 Subj : Voyage movie
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE 1.1+
 Phill Ash nasally exhaled his coffee upon hearing this:

>Even the first season, when the plots were reasonably good, had the
>crew crawling through the air ducts from time to time.

        Yeah, but even a modern "Boomer" with a 50 (or so) foot
        diameter, wouldn't have "man-sized" air vents...
        Of course "SeaView" wasn't a real sub, just a CVN with a
        displacement problem <G>


Your pal:  PhlAsh
... [tap..tap].. is this thing ON??
---
 * PhlAshMail 1.0 *
~~~ ReneWave v1.00.wb2 (unregistered)
--- GEcho 1.10+
 * Origin: * The Beast's Lair * (804)425-1618 * Va Beach VA * (1:275/160)

Ä [22] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 57 of 57
 From : Gamin Davis                         1:202/1313      .óá 15 .þë 95 22:35
 To   : Ken Mayes
 Subj : Red Dwarf
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
When Ken Mayes started blathering on about Red Dwarf, I had to put in my 2 cent

KM>        ...and urine should only be green if you're Mister Spock.

     Nitpick: If you're Spock and you have green urine, you have
*bloody* urine and should go see Dr. McCoy ASAP! Your urine should NOT
be the same color as your blood.  (I always thought this was a stupid
tagline...)
                               Gamin Davis


--- JMail-H 2.80 (Omega 3) [UNREGIS
 * Origin: Written Worlds BBS - 619.697.4073 (NONDMN 1:202/1313)

Ä [16] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 1 of 100
 From : Judy Hayes                          1:154/40        .pä 25 .êò 95 07:19
 To   : William Onufryk
 Subj : Re: Mercedes lackey and h
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
FROM: 2:463/2
TYPE: Unknown area
AREA:SFFAN

->Quoshara reminising about being SWAN, heard William say:

 JM> PL> Two more due out soon - _Triangle Park_ and _Arcanna 101_

 JM> Any more info ; when ; what about etc..
 JM> Anything you can tell my about new books of her etc ...

 WO> It may be a while, the last I heard was that her Tregarde books have
 WO> the weakest sales of any of her books and Tor is not rushing to put
 WO> any more out at the moment.  The latest list I saw of her future
 WO> releases doesn't have either of the books above listed.

That's too bad.  They are *my* favorites of all her works and the ones that
encouraged me to read more of her (non-collaborative) works.

      --Quoshara



... One way to have a clean mind is to change it frequently.
---
 * Origin: Anonymous BBS -=- Non plus Ultra -=- 414-251-2580 (1:154/40)

Ä [16] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 2 of 100
 From : Scott Royall                        1:106/357       .pä 25 .êò 95 13:01
 To   : Nicolai Shapero
 Subj : Saab: The Invitros
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
FROM: 2:463/2
TYPE: Unknown area
AREA:SFFAN

 -=> Quoting Nicolai Shapero to Scott Royall <=-

 NS> From last night's episode, we know that our "tank on the team" has
 NS> only been out of the bottle for six years, so there's likely a forced
 NS> maturation process and an "in tank" education system invovled.  At
 NS> which point the tanks might be regarded as "expendable", even though
 NS> they're fully human intelligent.

Having missed the ep. due entirely to my abject stupidity, I can only
nash my teeth.  However, I offer up the possibility that tanks are only
taught what they "need to know."

 NS> It hasn't been all that long since having a different melanin content
 NS> was a clear indicator of being "less than human" in this country (in
 NS> some geographic areas, it would still seem as though people think that
 NS> way).  So...it's happened before, it could happen again.

Speaking as one who travels on four wheels rather than two legs, I
assure you it happens daily.

--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12
 * Origin: Conch (1:106/357)

Ä [16] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 3 of 100
 From : Judy Hayes                          1:154/40        .pä 25 .êò 95 14:17
 To   : Myranya Werlemann
 Subj : Re: Personal Favorites.
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
FROM: 2:463/2
TYPE: Unknown area
AREA:SFFAN

->Quoshara reminising about being SWAN, heard Myranya say:

 >As SWAN debated a name change to Quoshara, Myranya said this:

 MW> I noticed that on the Trek echo's, too -any special reason? You sure
 MW> got everyone curious...

Oh?  Well, it's simple really.  I'm joining KAI (Klingon Armada International)
and that is my new Klingon name.  Since I, basically, only post to Trek/SF
echos I thought I'd go ahead and use it here.

 MW> rumor is that Hope was going to join DS9? I absolutely refuse to

.....kersnip.....

 JH> station." - and more similar garbage that implied it was my personal
 JH> fault if they did.  Sheesh!

 MW> Most of the time I just laugh about that kind of thing -really, it's
 MW> not worth getting mad about. It _is_ amazing, though, how many things
 MW> some folks are willing to believe. I guess they just feel really
 MW> silly when they find out they fell for a really obvious one, and
 MW> then they take it out on others... Most of the time I let it go
 MW> -they're not the type to appreciate any funny response I might give
 MW> them, anyway- but sometimes I just can't help myself and I _will_ rub
 MW> it in. <EG>

I know.  Sometimes it's *really* hard to resist. <g>

 JH> I did, calmly, explain to the guy that both comments were
 JH> jokes..haven't got an answer back yet.  I probably would have ignored

.....moresnips....

 JH> think I ever even typed to him before.  Double Sheesh!!

 MW> Yeah, that's a little bit too much. It wasn't this one guy -whatever
 MW> _is_ his name, can't think of it- who's apparently causing some stir
 MW> in the Trek echo's the last couple of weeks or so? Something with a
 MW> C I think... Writing lots of mezzies jumping all over people for
 MW> nothing... :-(  Oh well, he'll probably leave soon, by choice or
 MW> otherwise... <another EG>

Well, there is a C in his first name, but he's certainly *not* a newbie and he
should know better.  They tell me that he does this type of thing fairly
frequently though.

I guess it's a matter of "some people never learn."

 MW> but they also managed to double-schedule several SF shows. How _DO_
 MW> they do it??? Oh well, it's better that no SF at all...
 JH> Just means you have to be more selective....I hate that!  |-)

 MW> Yeah... I got that problem with both screens -tv and 'puter. I need a
 MW> screen saver for my eyes, there's a screen-sized image
 MW> burning permanently on my retina...

I *definately* understand that problem.  'Though I only get to use the 'puter
when I can pry it away from the kids and hubby....good thing I'm a fast
typist.

      --Quoshara

... Ruffles have ridges......and so do Klingons.
---
 * Origin: Anonymous BBS -=- Non plus Ultra -=- 414-251-2580 (1:154/40)

Ä [16] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 4 of 100
 From : Sunsparc                            1:163/403       .òp 24 .êò 95 21:40
 To   : Steve Wiser
 Subj : B5: Shadow War Prediction
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
FROM: 2:463/2
TYPE: Unknown area
AREA:SFFAN
*@SUBJECT:B5: Shadow War Prediction: On Target So Far                 N
Hello to everyone once more.........

As predicted by yours truly, Delenns Compatriot is now going
to
help B5 ...... with all that firepower, the shadows are no match

We'll have to wait for awile now to see about the other predictions

What about Your Predictions? Let's hear your side..........Sunsparc
--- FidoPCB v1.5 beta-'j'
 * Origin: Akasha's Bubble Bath & Magic Potion Emporium (1:163/403)

Ä [16] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 5 of 100
 From : Steven Wesen                        1:271/236       .pä 25 .êò 95 09:57
 To   : Bianca Wesslak
 Subj : Re: Red Dwarf
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
FROM: 2:463/2
TYPE: Unknown area
AREA:SFFAN
.TID: GE 1.11+
Signals catalog which is run by PBS they have 1-5 but the charge quite a bit.
There is a place in Richmond VA called Relm of fantasy which offers 1-6 and the
Blooper reels (avoid) and the American Pilot.

Steve.

--- GEcho 1.11+
 * Origin: THE TIME MACHINE (804)599-6401 TRAVEL THE PORTALS! (1:271/236)

Ä [16] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 6 of 100
 From : Todd Sullivan                       1:202/720.3     .òp 24 .êò 95 12:50
 To   : Jeff Hancock
 Subj : Re: B5 VS. TREK, AGAIN.
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
FROM: 2:463/2
TYPE: Unknown area
AREA:SFFAN
Whilst falling into the sun on 21 Oct 95, Jeff Hancock yelled to me:

 TS>> JH>then of the Trek-bashing? Why there, and not in the Trek areas? Try
 TS>> telling your Pastor that he's preaching about the most murderous

 JH> Heh. "Already have done"... no, but I've been tempted. ;-)

 JH> But, they're just words, and twit filters exist.

 JH> JMS has spoken out against some of the bashing lately as well.

Have seen the ported-over messages.  Unfortunately, my twit filter doesn't work;
reader's unReg ( and it tells *everybody*).  As for "just words", true, but you
can't be objective when you see the same idiotic nonsense over and over again,
which is why I'm not ever going to get into the Fido Trek areas, and why I'm
totally browned-ff on TrekNet.

If they're so great, why do they have to bash?  Stupid, stupid, stupid...


Todd Sullivan

... The Mormons:  New Age Lutherans

-*- ASTG 1.9

--- Spot 1.3a Unregistered
 * Origin: Todd's Spot in the Continuum (1:202/720.3)

Ä [16] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 7 of 100
 From : Frank Glover                        1:2613/477      .òp 24 .êò 95 21:30
 To   : Anne Hardcastle
 Subj : Re: Bat villains
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
FROM: 2:463/2
TYPE: Unknown area
AREA:SFFAN

AH>  also am fond of Robin's cocky attitude.  How can you not love
AH>  somebody who rides around in the Batmobile with his feet up on the
AH>  dashboard?

   Agreed. I just can't imagine Burt Ward doing that.....

   Frank


--- QuickBBS 2.80 GoldBase (Zeta-1)
 * Origin: The Matrix Data Bank BBS, Rochester, Ny (1:2613/477)

Ä [16] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 8 of 100
 From : Frank Glover                        1:2613/477      .òp 24 .êò 95 21:39
 To   : Todd Sullivan
 Subj : Re: More faves...
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
FROM: 2:463/2
TYPE: Unknown area
AREA:SFFAN

TS>  ... When agnostics die, do they go to the Great Perhaps?

   Maybe.

   (I know you didn't write the tagline, but I couldn't resist.)

   Frank


--- QuickBBS 2.80 GoldBase (Zeta-1)
 * Origin: The Matrix Data Bank BBS, Rochester, Ny (1:2613/477)

Ä [16] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 9 of 100
 From : Frank Glover                        1:2613/477      .òp 24 .êò 95 21:50
 To   : Jeff Hancock
 Subj : Re: The Long Twilight Sp  1/2
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
FROM: 2:463/2
TYPE: Unknown area
AREA:SFFAN

JH>  Does anyone get the impression G'Kar knows what's happening to the
JH>  Narn
JH>  fleet as he's praying? We already know they don't have telepaths, but
JH>  it's as if he can witness the battle, the look on his face during and
JH>  after the battle.

   I think it was more a case of anticipating and fearing exactly what was
happening.

   But I've been wrong before....

   Frank


--- QuickBBS 2.80 GoldBase (Zeta-1)
 * Origin: The Matrix Data Bank BBS, Rochester, Ny (1:2613/477)

Ä [16] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 10 of 100
 From : Mark Holtz                          1:203/1701      .pä 25 .êò 95 16:20
 To   : Jeff Hancock
 Subj : The Long Twilight Sp  1/2
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
FROM: 2:463/2
TYPE: Unknown area
AREA:SFFAN
Spoilers? I don't need no stinkin' spoilers.

When Jeff Hancock typed to All, strange things happened, like....

 JH> Definitely a terrific episode, but overall... Not QUITE the bang-up
 JH> job I was hoping for. Perhaps I was just expecting too much. Still,
 JH> highly impressive.

I still enjoyed the episode, even after six viewings before it aired.

What impressed me was that, instead of just the straight battle with the
Narn vs. Shadows, we cut between the battle and G'Kar praying like heck.
And, when the Narn were all defeated, G'Kar just knew, and entinquised the
candle.

 JH> What is with that funky music and Sheridan in the shower? ;) And did
 JH> anyone else think for a second, while he was toweling off his head and
 JH> heading toward the monitor, with his left profile to the camera, that
 JH> he looked kind of like Harrison Ford? ;-)

How many of us thought it was Ivanova?

 JH> I thought Draal was a bit of a pompous, preachy fellow during Voice in
 JH> the Wilderness, but it is as nothing as compared with his younger
 JH> self. The content didn't seem excessively self-promoting, but otherwise
 JH> his speaking style seems typical of someone rather full of himself.

A little too dramatic.

 JH> I *like* the Narn Warmaster. Too bad... but what a way to go!

Let's see here, W. Morgan Shepperd appeared twice on B5. Both times, he died.

... Oink, FLAP! oink, FLAP! oink, FLAP! oink, FLAP!
--- Blue Wave/TG v2.20 [NR]
 * Origin: Deep Space Franchise (916) 721-1701 (1:203/1701.0)

Ä [16] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 11 of 100
 From : Dkimmel                             1:101/230       .òp 24 .êò 95 12:59
 To   : Michael Harper
 Subj : KUBRICK
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
FROM: 2:463/2
TYPE: Unknown area
AREA:SFFAN

MH>The man's talent as a director doesn't make him any less of an asshole. His
MH>accuracy in 2001 is as much a result of good research and good fx as anythin
MH>else. By all accounts, Kubrick, personally, is an arrogant jackass. I like s
MH>of his earlier work, but not all of it. I feel about him the way I feel abou
MH>Robert Silverberg; he's a hell of a writer, but I personally despise the man
MH>may read some of his stuff, but I won't eat at the same table with him. Kubr
MH>may be a great director, but he has his off moments. Steve King can attest t
MH>that. Even after fifteen years, if you say the words "Shining" and "Kubrick"
MH>within earshot of King, you will get a very unpleasant response...

On what do you base your opinion of Stanley Kubrick?  Has he offended
you in some way?  Are you aware of something he has done that is
reprehensible?

As for Steven King, I don't doubt he dislikes Kubrick.  King is a hack
writer, regardless of his popularity, whose works will eventually be
forgotten.  Kubrick is an artist, who has created several masterpieces
of cinema, and whose film of "The Shining" may be one of the reasons
King is remembered at all.  (See the award-wining novella "Gold" by the
late Isaac Asimov -- collected in the volume of that name -- for a
further exploration of that theme.)

 * SLMR 2.1a * NIAGARA FALLS!  Sloooowly, I turned....

--- FLAME v1.0
 * Origin: Withouta Net - Drop In Anytime! - 617/846-5416 (1:101/230)

Ä [16] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 12 of 100
 From : Ecarey                              1:101/230       .òp 24 .êò 95 14:32
 To   : Scott Sims
 Subj : SPACE ABOVE AND BEYOND
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
FROM: 2:463/2
TYPE: Unknown area
AREA:SFFAN

 > some thoughts on where space may go::::
 > i can see where the aliens could be slaves warriors to some higher
 > intelegent species: because the rescued women said all they do is
 > kill
 > thats all they do. so how could a species like that make such high
 > tech
 > equipment? suppose the synthoids created them to get earth into

Scott, that's what people say about the enemy in wartime, in _any_ war. It
doesn't mean anything except that there's a war on.

--- FLAME v1.0
 * Origin: Withouta Net - Drop In Anytime! - 617/846-5416 (1:101/230)

Ä [16] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 13 of 100
 From : Nicolai Shapero                     1:102/524       .pä 25 .êò 95 06:02
 To   : Jackson Raster
 Subj : Re: Personal Favorites
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
FROM: 2:463/2
TYPE: Unknown area
AREA:SFFAN
Jackson, you are quoting entire messages, including the origin line, in order to
post single line responses.  Please cut the quoting to a minimum.

Thank you for your cooperation,

-- Nicolai Shapero, Moderator of the SFFAN echo

--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [16] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 14 of 100
 From : Nicolai Shapero                     1:102/524       .pä 25 .êò 95 06:06
 To   : Geoff Doherty
 Subj : books
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
FROM: 2:463/2
TYPE: Unknown area
AREA:SFFAN
On <Oct 24 11:13>, Geoff Doherty (3:640/201) wrote to Nicolai Shapero:

 GD> Dont mind me for butting in - but I just had to comment on your
 GD> choice of favourite SF.  Apart from the two books by Bester
 GD>(which I
 GD> have not read).....Good choice, very good choice!  B-)

If you haven't read the two by Bester then run, do not walk, to your local
library and check them out.  VERY good reading.

-- Nicolai Shapero, the Mad Russian Sysop of StormGate Aerie

--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [16] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 15 of 100
 From : Ecarey                              1:101/230       .pä 25 .êò 95 16:56
 To   : Todd Sullivan
 Subj : RE: THE '37S
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
FROM: 2:463/2
TYPE: Unknown area
AREA:SFFAN

 >>DJ> Actually we don't use the European standard.  At least not  consistently.
 >
 >E> Which was the point I was trying to make, really - that Canada sometimes
 >E> does things the same way they're done in the UK, and sometimes the same
 >E> way they're done in the USA, and sometimes does something different that
 >E> happens to be locally convenient/attractive/whatever.
 >
 >E> Which means that guessing what the USA does based on what Canada does,
 >E> or vice versa, is an exercise in futility.:)
 >
 TS> What are you referring to?  I can assure you that California is as
 > American (good, bad and wierd) as it gets.  Well, you can ask a New
 > Yorker, but why bother?  You probably have to deal with them on a
 > semi-regular basis.

Todd, you need to pay attention and follow the conversation <VBG>

We weren't talking about how things are done in California, one of the fifty
states of the United States of America. We were talking about how things are
done in _CANADA_, a sovereign country immediately to the north of the USA.

--- FLAME v1.0
 * Origin: Withouta Net - Drop In Anytime! - 617/846-5416 (1:101/230)

Ä [16] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 16 of 100
 From : Mark David                          1:243/86        .pä 25 .êò 95 23:06
 To   : Ecarey
 Subj : Re: RE: SPACE: ABOVE AND BEYO
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
FROM: 2:463/2
TYPE: Unknown area
AREA:SFFAN

E> If it's been mentioned, I missed it, too. It doesn't _look_ like they've bee
E> created with obvious parts missing:), but that, of course, doesn't prove tha
E> they're fertile.

I didn't catch any refrences to it either. In any case, we know they feel a
sex-drive.

 * Origin: °±²Û Electron Castle (613) 824-5074 Û²±° (1:243/86)

Ä [16] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 17 of 100
 From : Mark David                          1:243/86        .pä 25 .êò 95 23:12
 To   : Ecarey
 Subj : Re: RE: SAAB: THE INVITROS
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
FROM: 2:463/2
TYPE: Unknown area
AREA:SFFAN

E> The legal position seems to have been "indentured servitude", with the in
E> vitros becoming free upon completion of their labor term - except that often
E> the work was so dangerous that very few survived. Colonel McQueen mentions
E> being one of _six_ survivors of his group of indentured in vitros in a minin
E> colony.

I can see no use for slave labour in an industialized society. We know, given
the AIs, their robotics technology is amazingly advanced--robots would prove
far more efficient in the kind of labour we see the invitros pressed into. And
probably cheaper, too.

But I geuss there has to be some conflicts to keep things intersting.

 * Origin: °±²Û Electron Castle (613) 824-5074 Û²±° (1:243/86)

Ä [16] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 18 of 100
 From : Todd Sullivan                       1:202/720.3     .pä 25 .êò 95 10:02
 To   : The Raven
 Subj : Re: Stingray
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
FROM: 2:463/2
TYPE: Unknown area
AREA:SFFAN
Whilst falling into the sun on 23 Oct 95, The Raven yelled to Mark Jones:

 TR>> Wasn't this show one of the innumerable Cannell Productions shows?

 MJ>> Yahwol!

 TR>      I've had enough of him and his ego...

Look at it this way, Jack.  He's got tons of money from all his hits. People
like him think saleability means everything.  Part of the HollyWierd mentality.

I personally think because he looks a bit like Lucas that he thinks of himself
as LucasFilm of TV.  About any explanation along that line will suffice, I
suspect. <grin>


Todd Sullivan

... Attila the Nun:  A girl pledged to a life of simple brutality.

-*- ASTG 1.9

--- Spot 1.3a Unregistered
 * Origin: Todd's Spot in the Continuum (1:202/720.3)

Ä [16] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 19 of 100
 From : Todd Sullivan                       1:202/720.3     .pä 25 .êò 95 10:07
 To   : Jackson Raster
 Subj : Re: Voyager: Non Sequiter
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
FROM: 2:463/2
TYPE: Unknown area
AREA:SFFAN
Whilst falling into the sun on 22 Oct 95, Jackson Raster yelled to me:

 JR> You don't seem to understand...I meant that the Amiga must have been
 JR> included in Borg culture because it was SUPERIOR. And that you could
 JR> find Amiga hardware all through the Borg as a result. I LOVE my Amiga!
 JR> It's the best machine I ever owned!
 JR> -JTR
 JR>  PS: I wouldn't own a Pentium. I need my computer to COMPUTE...not
 JR> guess...

I was going after the other guy.  Sorry I didn't make it more clear.


Todd Sullivan ---> *Team* *Amiga!* <---


... Bigot?  Fundamentalist?  Love guns?  The Republicans want YOU!

-*- ASTG 1.9

--- Spot 1.3a Unregistered
 * Origin: Todd's Spot in the Continuum (1:202/720.3)

Ä [16] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 20 of 100
 From : Starwolf                            1:163/214       .åò 26 .êò 95 00:09
 To   : The Raven
 Subj : B5 VS. TREK, AGAIN.
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
FROM: 2:463/2
TYPE: Unknown area
AREA:SFFAN

 TR> where they were:  Friday at 10, right after the X-Files.  Now, is that a
 TR> cherry spot, or what?

I could use some right about now.  I fear I have just lost a valued
acquaintance.  It turned out, entirely uneexpectedly that he was a ranting
separatiste.  I kne he lived in Montreal (Quebec, Canada) but he sounded like a
truly level-headed sort.  No such luck.  Just finished a long argument by phone
where I had the good luck of being treated to such names as "liar" and "full of
(expletive deleted)" because I had the audacity to point out the flaws in his
separatist mindset.  He just didn't want to hear the same lies again, he just
didn't want to hear the opinion of outsiders.   In point of fact, my francophone
family harkens back in Quebec for centuries, but we didn't think as he did,
therefore we couldn't be true Quebecers.  The worst-case scenario at present
gives the winning side no more than a couple of percentage points.  Is he saying
that nearly 50% of the people in his province are not true Quebecers either?

Obsessive, nearly psychotic behaviour at its most narrow-minded worst.

I'm scared.  If someone as supposedly intelligent as he can be so thoroughly
brainwashed, what of others?


--- Maximus 2.01wb
 * Origin: Land of Ill Repute (1:163/214)

Ä [16] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 21 of 100
 From : Beth Lunney                         1:323/109       .åò 26 .êò 95 17:07
 To   : All
 Subj : hercules
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
FROM: 2:463/2
TYPE: Unknown area
AREA:SFFAN
.TID: GE 1.11+
  Can anyone tell me when the show Hercules airs? I'd like to start watching it,
but don't feel like reading through the whole tv guide to find out when it's on.
Kinda lazy, I know.
                                                    thanks,
                                                      Beth

---
 * Origin: Alcohol-Caffeine-Nicotine-Chocolate: 4 Food Groups (1:323/109)

Ä [16] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 22 of 100
 From : Mark Jones                          1:105/302.47    .pä 25 .êò 95 16:22
 To   : The Raven
 Subj : Highlander:  New Season
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
FROM: 2:463/2
TYPE: Unknown area
AREA:SFFAN
On (23 Oct 95) The Raven wrote to Mark Jones...

 TR> Yep. Something I we will see at least one more time in the
 TR> series... mainly because I know that something major is going to
 TR> happen, and I'm not going to tell you what it is. Nyah nyah nyah.
 TR> <G>

   Well...just be that way, then!  See if I care!

   I just won't tell you about my PULP FICTION/HIGHLANDER story.


--- PPoint 1.78
 * Origin: Folcroft Sanitarium (hsmith@cure.com) (1:105/302.47)

Ä [16] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 23 of 100
 From : Frank Glover                        1:2613/477      .pä 25 .êò 95 18:42
 To   : Owen E. Oulton
 Subj : Re: Questions, but are they rhetorical?
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
FROM: 2:463/2
TYPE: Unknown area
AREA:SFFAN

OE>  Stories like Star Trek or Babylon 5 would be impossible.  Travel to
OE>  the nearest star system, a mere 4.3 light years off, would take
OE>  decades, perhaps generations.

   Quite true. Indeed, the crew of the USS Voyager, if they could get close
enough to lightspeed in normal space could get home in perhaps a few months of
ship's time, but there's that matter of being 27,000 (I think) years out of
date....

In `The Forever War,' it was also expected that ships, unable to use the
stargates that got them out there, would come straggling back, over
thousands of years, likewise at relativistic speeds.

  If it can be kept operating this long of course, Voyager has the option of a
70 year trip home at warp speeds. but at least about the same time will have
passed at home, too. Recall also when Q sent the Enterprise-D to the first
encounter with the Borg, they were two years out of Federation space at maximum
warp. And in TOS, even with the Kelvan-augmented warp drives, it was to be a 300
year voyage tothe Andromeda galaxy (2.2 millionlight-years)

   Sometimes you can't go *enough* faster than light....

   In one of Niven's Known Space stories, a character makes a passing reference
to someone who went off to `the edge of the universe' in a barely sublight
ramship that *also* had hyperdrive. (Standard hyperdrive, not the level II type
seen in `At The Core') Seems that as far as ship time was concerned, he was
better off flying at relativistic speeds, than through hyperspace to travel
10-odd billion light-years.

   And, of course, this guy had no expectation of coming back.....

   Frank


--- QuickBBS 2.80 GoldBase (Zeta-1)
 * Origin: The Matrix Data Bank BBS, Rochester, Ny (1:2613/477)

Ä [16] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 24 of 100
 From : Chris Carter                        1:105/290.23    .åò 26 .êò 95 07:24
 To   : Jeff Hancock
 Subj : The Long Twilight Sp  1/2                                [1]
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
FROM: 2:463/2
TYPE: Unknown area
AREA:SFFAN
Spoilers below.  Cool spoilerguard removed to save bandwidth.  25
carriage returns inserted.

























On (23 Oct 95) Jeff Hancock wrote to All...

 JH> A rather interesting pattern of city lights on the surface of
 JH> Centauri Prime.

You'll have to fill me in on this one, as I didn't notice a pattern.

 JH> What is with that funky music and Sheridan in the shower?

More of the magic of Christopher Franke, I'd imagine.  Don't you
listen to music when you're showering?

 JH> I thought Draal was a bit of a pompous, preachy fellow during
 JH> Voice in the Wilderness, but it is as nothing as compared with
 JH> his younger self. The content didn't seem excessively
 JH> self-promoting, but otherwise his speaking style seems typical
 JH> of someone rather full of himself.

Think of Draal as a professor at a major university.  These sorts of
folks do often times get a bit full of themselves, and speak
accordingly.  I thought the obviously preplanned speech, intercut
with more conversational phrases was brilliant and funny.

 JH> And the way Londo and Refa's faces are partially shadowed by

                                                      ^^^^^^^^

 JH> the poor lighting during the argument.... laying it on a bit
 JH> thick perhaps? ;)

Think about it. ;~)

 JH> It's mildly interesting that this time, the Epsilon 3
 JH> installation that is visited, and where Draal is kept, is only
 JH> three miles beneath the surface. I seem to remember that it
 JH> was five miles in VitW.

Assuming I can remember, I'll attempt to verify this.

 JH> I thought the Narn should have had more fighters, though.

There may have been more fighters, but most of the combat was viewed
on the scale of capital ships.  Fighters were lost against the
background most of the time.

 JH> Okay, did anyone else not care for the intercuts of G'Kar
 JH> praying? I dunno, I just never cared for having my space
 JH> battles constantly interrupted, just a couple of times would
 JH> have gotten the point across.

I think this was supposed to make the battle more personal, as well
as reflect G'Kar's foreboding about it.  I didn't have a problem
with it.

 JH> Does anyone get the impression G'Kar knows what's happening to
 JH> the Narn fleet as he's praying?

I don't think that G'Kar necessarily knows, but his knowledge of the
Shadows, and his assumptions about their involvement with the
Centauri explain his behavior, I think.

 JH> Another odd bit is that the double-ship that had a leg blown
 JH> off seems almost adrift in space as the other double-ship
 JH> merges with it. This is another argument for organic
 JH> technology on the part of the Shadows, and against it being
 JH> used as well, any wounds can affect the whole creature

One might think that even the relatively small amount of damage done
to the Shadow cruiser was enough to incapacitate it, because it was
in *pain*.

More to come in other messages...

Chris - carter@teleport.com


... Warning!  This tagline contains Visdormativa!

--- PPoint 1.98
 * Origin: Grid Epsilon Coords. 105x290x23 (1:105/290.23)

Ä [16] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 25 of 100
 From : Chris Carter                        1:105/290.23    .åò 26 .êò 95 07:36
 To   : Jeff Hancock
 Subj : The Long Twilight Sp  2/2
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
FROM: 2:463/2
TYPE: Unknown area
AREA:SFFAN
As with the previous message, the spoiler graphic has been removed
and replaced by 25 carriage returns.

























On (23 Oct 95) Jeff Hancock wrote to All...

 JH> The VORLON government filed protests against the Centauri as
 JH> well?

Remember, the Vorlons still have to give the impression that they're
'just like everybody else,' rather than gadding about saying, "Hi.
We're the Ancient Ones, and we're here to help you kick some Shadow
ass."  Filing protests, and doing nothing to back them up, makes the
Vorlons look just as ridiculous as everyone else in the Council
chambers.

Chris - carter@teleport.com


... "Jim Beam" me up, Scotchy!  There's no more booze on this planet.

--- PPoint 1.98
 * Origin: Grid Epsilon Coords. 105x290x23 (1:105/290.23)

Ä [16] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 26 of 100
 From : Michael Harper                      1:123/10        .pä 25 .êò 95 11:09
 To   : Beverley Cote
 Subj : Oook!
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
FROM: 2:463/2
TYPE: Unknown area
AREA:SFFAN
Yeah, but it's all those odd little references to Buddy Holly and Elvis and so
on that had me rolling... :)

Now I've gotta go find a copy of the new one, "Lords And Ladies". The thing in
the advert says mething about a football team that gets the crap beat out of
them by a gang of elves.
--- RA/FD/FMail
 * Origin: The Electric Fox - Memphis,TN, U.S.A.  1-901-327-1008 (1:123/10)

Ä [16] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 27 of 100
 From : David Little                        1:106/7315      .pä 25 .êò 95 09:23
 To   : Darren Lovatt
 Subj : Red Dwarf / Time travel
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
FROM: 2:463/2
TYPE: Unknown area
AREA:SFFAN
-=<( Darren Lovatt used the Jedi Mind Trick on me! )>=-

 DL> In Red Dwarf, time travel is used alot and I was wondering if chatting
 DL> about weather or not it was possible or other views was allowed ! If
 DL> so I'm here !

        No more than Star Trek has used time travel. I was upset when Lister
didn't go ack and marry Kachanski<sp.>!

                                        -=The DoLittle 8-)=-

... "All of this generosity has made me tired!" -- The Cat
--- FreeMail & Blue Wave/TAG v2.20
 * Origin: The Wizard's Realm ** (713) 946-7315 ** (1:106/7315)

Ä [16] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 28 of 100
 From : David Johnston                      1:342/14        .åò 26 .êò 95 00:06
 To   : Ml Sands
 Subj : Questions, but are they rhetorical?
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
FROM: 2:463/2
TYPE: Unknown area
AREA:SFFAN

->       1 ...   A twenty year travel-time would be on the order
->       (generally) of the journey of Marco Polo. While long, it

Marco Polo had places to stop on the way, instead of being locked in a
metal box for 20 years with the same companions.

->       2 ...   You seem to be assuming that what is fast, is easy.
->       However, the majority of storylines do hold that <hyperspace>
->       is a very energy intensive buisiness. Tunneling through the

Not by comparison with STL travel.

--- PCBoard (R) v15.21/100
 * Origin: Freddy's Place - Edm. AB - 28.8K (403) 456-4241 (1:342/14)

Ä [16] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 29 of 100
 From : David Johnston                      1:342/14        .åò 26 .êò 95 00:26
 To   : Nicolai Shapero
 Subj : Re: Questions, But Are T
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
FROM: 2:463/2
TYPE: Unknown area
AREA:SFFAN

-> Nope.  Because the hero will be on board a ship that will be pushing
-> the speed of light within a year, and relativistic effects (time
-> dilation) will get him to the stars in decent ship-time.

Of course, it would be a great mystery where he was getting his
unlimited reaction mass, Tau Prime notwithstanding.

--- PCBoard (R) v15.21/100
 * Origin: Freddy's Place - Edm. AB - 28.8K (403) 456-4241 (1:342/14)

Ä [16] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 30 of 100
 From : Marc Zingarelli                     1:226/110       .åò 26 .êò 95 18:34
 To   : The Raven
 Subj : Highlander:  New Season
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
FROM: 2:463/2
TYPE: Unknown area
AREA:SFFAN
.TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12  92-0004
The Raven was overheard talking to Mark Jones,
about Highlander:, in "Joe's Place" and said:

TR>     Yep.  Something I we will see at least one more time in the series...
TR>mainly because I know that something major is going to happen, and I'm not
TR>going to tell you what it is.  Nyah nyah nyah.  <G>

I hate it when you do this!!!!!  You're such a tease Jack.

TR>... "Correction.  I'm the oldest *known* Immortal." -- Methos

This tagline brings up a couple what ifs on its own.

Later


     ---
 LT MARC ZINGARELLI
 Circleville Fire Department
 Local 1232
 Internet:  marc.zingarelli@tcr.com


 * OLX 1.52 * "All you have to do is live long enough."

--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12
 * Origin: The Computer Room-Pickerington, Oh (614)861-8377  (1:226/110.0)

Ä [16] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 31 of 100
 From : Wes Yahola                          1:123/569       .ÿò 27 .êò 95 05:59
 To   : Daniel Van Middelkoop
 Subj : books
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
FROM: 2:463/2
TYPE: Unknown area
AREA:SFFAN
.TID: GE 1.11+

 -=> And Daniel Van Middelkoop did deliver these words of books to Wes Yahola
 DVM> Absolutely right!, only the Death Gate cycle comes a little
 DVM> bit close, but LOR rules for ever!

   I loved the Death Gate cycle books. I've only read the first four. I think
things left off in the last book with the war between the realms about to begin.
Did they ever explain what the big machine (was it "quigsly wigsly" or something
close. I could check, but that'd involve getting up and going to another room)
did? I don't want to know what it did right now so much as I want to know if
they explained it.

... DO NOT ADJUST YOUR MIND - the fault is with reality
--- Blue Wave/RA v2.12 [NR]
 * Origin: 9 out of 5 Schizos prefer Lunatic Fringe! 382-LUST (1:123/569)

Ä [16] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 32 of 100
 From : Ken Mayes                           1:393/7         .ÿò 27 .êò 95 08:55
 To   : Mark David
 Subj : Re: SAAB: Propulsion Systems
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
FROM: 2:463/2
TYPE: Unknown area
AREA:SFFAN
        In many of Isaac Asimov's stories, fision reactors were used to heat
water to steam which was then vented out the back of the ship for propulsion.
Simple..but it works.


        About the Helium 3. Your guess is as good as mine. One possibility...a
thermo-nuclear reaction, at least given the current understand of fusion,
requires a great deal of heat. Your average H-B consists of an old-fashioned
A-Bomb, fission bomb to be used as trigger for the fusion bomb. Perhaps, the
fission reactor on the transport was used primarily as a starter for a fusion
reactor which was not shown. ???




--- CNet/3
 * Origin: The Bard's Tavern Denton, TX (817)243-5110 USR 28.8   (1:393/7)

Ä [16] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 33 of 100
 From : Jon Helis                           1:396/40        .pä 25 .êò 95 01:27
 To   : Chris Carter
 Subj : Re: The Long Twilight Sp
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
FROM: 2:463/2
TYPE: Unknown area
AREA:SFFAN
.TID: InterEcho 1.12 6E010867

 -=> Quoting Chris Carter to Jeff Hancock <=-

 CC> Spoilers below.  Cool spoilerguard removed to save bandwidth.  25
 CC> carriage returns inserted.

























 CC> On (23 Oct 95) Jeff Hancock wrote to All...

 JH> I thought Draal was a bit of a pompous, preachy fellow during
 JH> Voice in the Wilderness, but it is as nothing as compared with
 JH> his younger self. The content didn't seem excessively
 JH> self-promoting, but otherwise his speaking style seems typical
 JH> of someone rather full of himself.

 CC> Think of Draal as a professor at a major university.  These sorts of
 CC> folks do often times get a bit full of themselves, and speak
 CC> accordingly.  I thought the obviously preplanned speech, intercut
 CC> with more conversational phrases was brilliant and funny.

 JH> It's mildly interesting that this time, the Epsilon 3
 JH> installation that is visited, and where Draal is kept, is only
 JH> three miles beneath the surface. I seem to remember that it
 JH> was five miles in VitW.

Well, I guess getting the knowlege of most of the universe will do that to
someone<grin>.  I'm back in college now, so I know what you mean about those
professors being full of themselves.

What I found interesting(that nobody has talked about) was that there was a
reference to "Babylon Squared" in one scene with Draal.  I wonder what his roll
in the taking of Babylon 4 was.



... Babylon Five: the Best in Television ___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12


--- InterEcho 1.12
 * Origin: REUNION BBS, Harahan, La., USA (504) 738-5162 Try God (1:396/40)

Ä [16] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 34 of 100
 From : Meredith Billington                 1:109/611       .åò 26 .êò 95 20:04
 To   : All
 Subj : Movies and shows
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
FROM: 2:463/2
TYPE: Unknown area
AREA:SFFAN
All,

        I was wondering what do you think is/are the best Sci-Fi flicks and
shows are?

Meredith

--- QuickBBS 2.80 GoldBase (Zeta-1)
 * Origin: AD Message BBS/10th Year Online! (703)998-2958 (1:109/611@FIDONET)

Ä [16] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 35 of 100
 From : Patrick Long                        1:271/380       .åò 26 .êò 95 20:30
 To   : All
 Subj : Q HEADING FOR VOYAGER
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
FROM: 2:463/2
TYPE: Unknown area
AREA:SFFAN
.TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12  94-0096
This message was from DENNIS RAYBURN to ALL
and was forwarded to you by PATRICK LONG
                    ----------------------------------------
I just got this and thought everyone would find it VERY interesting!

Dennis
       -----------------------------------------------------------
                                 UPN
                          October 19, 1995

For Immediate Release

              THE OMNIPOTENT Q RETURNS ON "STAR TREK: VOYAGER"
                      AIRING LATER THIS SEASON ON UPN

     Captain Janeway Endures the Universe's Most Notorious Troublemaker
     And Commander William T. Riker Is Called to Testify On Q's Behalf


The omnipotent Q makes his triumphant return to a Starfleet vessel in a
riveting episode of "Star Trek: Voyager" airing later this season on UPN.
The hugely popular character, portrayed by actor John de Lancie, is an entity
with near godlike powers, child-like petulance and a sense of playfulness.
He was last seen in the finale of "Star Trek: The Next Generation" (May,
1994) and, since then, the prospect of his return has been a topic of
widespread interest among viewers.  Jonathan Frakes, as Commander William
T. Riker, also makes a special guest appearance in the episode.

Commenting on the storyline, de Lancie said, "It's the best yet!  It
certainly answers alot of people's questions about the nature of being Q,
but also begs many *other* questions."

In the episode, entitled "Death Wish," a rebel Q (Gerrit Graham) escapes
imprisonment from inside a comet and demands asylum aboard the U.S.S.
Voyager.  Just as quickly, the well-known Q (de Lancie) arrives to force the
escaped Q back to the Continuum, the extra-dimensional domain in which their
immortal kind exist.  Meanwhile, the escaped Q proclaims that if Captain
Janeway (Kate Mulgrew) grants him sanctuary, he intends to commit suicide
to end the tedium he has endured as an immortal being.

Noting the dictates of Starfleet protocol, Janway holds a hearing to
consider the request for asylum.  The tables are turned on Q as Federation
personnel preside over a trial in which he must defend the Q Continuum and
the ever-logical Tuvok acts as counsel for the escaped Q.  A courtroom
drame ensues when Q calls himself to the witness stand along with a varied
group of other people, including Commander William T. Riker, whose lives
were profoundly changed by Q's influence.

In a collaboration between father and sin, the story was written by Shawn
Piller and the teleplay was written by Michael Piller.  The episode is
directed by James L. Conway.  Rick Berman, Michael Piller and Jeri Taylor
are the creators/executive producers of "Star Trek: Voyager."  The series
is a production of Paramount Network Television.


... Below Average Pilot:  Unequal number of takeoffs and landings...

--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12
 * Origin: The Gondor BBS, member of Fidonet, the best RPG's!  (1:271/380.0)

Ä [16] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 36 of 100
 From : Starwolf                            1:163/214       .åò 26 .êò 95 13:38
 To   : Kay Shapero
 Subj : B5 schedule
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
FROM: 2:463/2
TYPE: Unknown area
AREA:SFFAN
Thanks for the idea vis looking for data on the B5 echo.  I'm not sure if it
would help in hunting down the randomly scheduled episodes we see out here.
That station is just TERRIBLE in terms of showing things out of whack.

WHen STTNG began everywhere else on the planet, that station decided to hold off
for a month so they could show baseball instead.  Two years later, they allowed
the rights to slip out of their fingers and land to a second-rate local station
with an irritating "here's Uncle Bob's Car-tune Show" host to introduce each
episode.

They managed to get X-MEN but, though they'd bought the whole season, they went
for two months in mid-season without showing any (no explanation) and then
resumed showing them - at three AM!!!

The programming and scheduling staff must be on drugs.  The really annoying part
of it is, they've been bought out by a larger network - the Baton Broadcasting
System.  That's right:  BBS.  So now, BBS is fouling up our favourite shows.
***SIGH***


--- Maximus 2.01wb
 * Origin: Land of Ill Repute (1:163/214)

Ä [16] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 37 of 100
 From : Gerry Normandeau                    1:163/430       .ÿò 27 .êò 95 00:00
 To   : Jackson Raster
 Subj : Re: Personal Favorites
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
FROM: 2:463/2
TYPE: Unknown area
AREA:SFFAN

 ->  I am still searching the used bins for The Ringworld Engineers. But
 -> excelant sourse of material is the RPG Ringworld. This role playing g
 -> expands the Ringworld and Ringworld Engineers books. In it you can pl
 -> explorers from outside or inhabitants of the world. Great fun.
 ->  As I recall I read an artical about the impact of the Ringworld conc
 -> on other authors. Some have used multiple rings, one at each AU in th
 ->  Star Trek: The Next Genetation episode "Rellics" Featured a Dyson Sp
 -> it was only an hour show and not much was seen of it.
 ->  From a novelest's standpoint you could use such a world and never ru
 -> material!
 ->                         Thankz4YorInterest! };>

 JR> Who puts out that RPG, BTW?
 JR> -JTR

 I think it was put out by GDW but I realy could be wrong.};>
  The system has been out of print for some years now so your going to
have to dig deep in the sale bins to find it! };<


... Got enough guilt to start my own religion
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

--- Maximus 2.01wb
 * Origin: Watership Down BBS, Kanata , ON (1:163/430)

Ä [16] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 38 of 100
 From : Gerry Normandeau                    1:163/430       .ÿò 27 .êò 95 00:00
 To   : Nicolai Shapero
 Subj : Re: Questions, but are t
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
FROM: 2:463/2
TYPE: Unknown area
AREA:SFFAN
Nicolai was heard putting a contract on Gerry because of Re: Questions, but are
t!

 NS> With one gee boost halfway, then deceleration for the remainder of the
 NS> distance, transit of one astronomical unit (93 million
 NS> miles) takes about 68.7 hours (less than three days).
 NS> Since the distance covered will go as the square of the
 NS> time invovled, allowing for thirty days should get you 100
 NS> AU.  The mean distance of pluto's orbit is around 39 AU.  A
 NS> month, in other words, gets you a LONG way at constant
 NS> boost...

Interplanetary dynamic physics ain't my strong suit };>

 GN>But if you say start an adventure on a
 GN>starship
 GN>and launch that ship using the slow way, the hero's great, great,
 GN>great,
 GN>great grandson will end the story.

 NS> Nope.  Because the hero will be on board a ship that will be pushing
 NS> the  speed of light within a year, and relativistic effects
 NS> (time dilation) will get him to the stars in decent ship-
 NS> time.

Yes but the problen is the adventure can only take place on that ship.
Character interaction outside the confines of the ship is imposible because
of the time problem. As for trade at relativistic speed, we should look back at
the old Ducth East India Co. Each ship that is sent is a big deal and carries
vast quantities of preshious goods. Most definatly finished products such as
art (especialy alien art and artifacts), unique textiles and preshious gems and
high tec goods. Of course the ships will be huge to offset the fact that very
get in and out of port very often. The companys would be powers untothemselves
like the Dutch East India.

 GN> Hyperspace is not the creation of a single author. It is a
 GN>sientific
 GN>theory dating back to I don't know when.

 NS> It is a science fiction convention; it is not scientific theory.

 Strange I could have sworn it was a theory? Oh well };>

 NS> While the above sig lines may be considered acceptable on
 NS> Internet/Usenet, where the communications costs are seldom
 NS> picked up by the individuals posting same, this is
 NS> FidoNet.  They are to be discouraged.  And on this
 NS> conference (which I moderate) they are out and out
 NS> forbidden.  Please lose the signature in future.

AW Nuts! And it was so pretty too! };> Ok no problem!

... Dragons again? I activate my +6 St. George Surface to Air Missile
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

--- Maximus 2.01wb
 * Origin: Watership Down BBS, Kanata , ON (1:163/430)

Ä [16] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 39 of 100
 From : Gerry Normandeau                    1:163/430       .ÿò 27 .êò 95 00:00
 To   : Mark David
 Subj : Re: SAAB: Propulsion Sys
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
FROM: 2:463/2
TYPE: Unknown area
AREA:SFFAN
Mark was heard putting a contract on All because of SAAB: Propulsion Systems!

 MD> I am reffering to the Oct. 8 episode (the one before last--sorry, I
 MD> didn't  catch the title).

 MD> The cargo craft uses a nuclear propulsion system (I cite the numerous
 MD> refrences to technology currently in use, ie. control rods, feul
 MD> cells, ect.)
 MD> Using the refrences given, it sounded like the writers took a tour of
 MD> a  nuclear power plant, in particular a MHTGR or IFR type reactor
 MD> system.
 MD> Now, first of all, I wonder how propulsion was achieved with nuclear
 MD> fission.  As you may or may not know, nuclear power production is
 MD> really just a very  fancy steam-turbine system. I can see a pulse-type
 MD> propulsion,  matter-antimatter conversion, fussion-generated plasma
 MD> propulsion--but I'm at  a loss how one would go about making a ship
 MD> move using fission power. That  piddling little core we saw in that
 MD> episode might generate about 100kW or so.

 Workable but by no means practical. For a fission reactor to be used as
a propulsion system you take two large tubes and fill the space betwen with
uranium pellets and then force liqued hydrogen through them causing the
hudrogen to become superheated and forcing it out the back. The idea was being
worked on by the US Air Force in the mid '70s and produced 50% better thrust
than conventional rockets. Of course the steam would be fantasticly radioactive!

 MD> Which brings me to my next question--how the hell do you use Helium-3
 MD> in a  fission reactor? Aside from a coolant in the MHTGR (Modular High
 MD> Tempature  Gas-cooled Reactor) system, I can see no use for it, and
 MD> certainly cannot  justify the evident importance placed on it.

You got me there!};> Especialy the size of the container was that of a large
thermous. If there is somthing we have in abundance in the universe is helium.


... A Red Dragon?! Hmmph! I grab my trusty spoon +2 and charge 'im!!
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

--- Maximus 2.01wb
 * Origin: Watership Down BBS, Kanata , ON (1:163/430)

Ä [16] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 40 of 100
 From : Boris CDuke                         2:463/2.22      .cê 29 .êò 95 13:55
 To   : All
 Subj : test
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
FROM: 2:463/2
TYPE: Unknown area
AREA:SFFAN
Hi All!

Sombody from 1st zone please send me this message back via INTERNET to:
boris@sfclub.freenet.kiev.ua.

Thanx

Bestest, Boris

 * Origin: Imagineering (2:463/2.22)

Ä [16] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 41 of 100
 From : Michael Harper                      1:123/10        .åò 26 .êò 95 15:13
 To   : Starwolf
 Subj : Kubrik?
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
FROM: 2:463/2
TYPE: Unknown area
AREA:SFFAN

 > Oh, OK.  The original post hadn't been clear as to the
 > separation between director and personality.  I can't comment
 > on the latter save to say 'was'.  He's been dead from some
 > time.

Au contraire, mon ami. Kubrick is still alive, and has a film in the cooker even
as we speak. It's called A.I. and is due out next year sometime, barring
complications. Rumour mill has it that Kubrick has known about his property for
some years, but was waiting for the technology to make it possible.

It occurs to me that with the advances in CGI, it's now possible to do a decent
film adaptation of Alfie Bester's THE STARS MY DESTINATION... please, God...

 > As for THE SHINING, I didn't much care for it, either.

Did anybody? I mean, it wasn't bad, but it also wasn't Steve's book, either.
I'll never admit it around Steve, but I actually enjoyed bits of it... <guilty
grin>

--- RA/FD/FMail
 * Origin: The Electric Fox - Memphis,TN, U.S.A.  1-901-327-1008 (1:123/10)

Ä [16] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 42 of 100
 From : Don Dellmann                        1:154/750       .óá 28 .êò 95 06:17
 To   : Beth Lunney
 Subj : hercules
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
FROM: 2:463/2
TYPE: Unknown area
AREA:SFFAN
.TID: FastEcho 1.45a 8060
While tripping merrily through the mail, Beth Lunney was overheard

 BL> Can anyone tell me when the show Hercules airs? I'd like to start
 BL> watching it, but don't feel like reading through the whole tv guide to
 BL> find out when it's on. Kinda lazy, I know.
 BL> thanks,

Since it's a "syndicated" show now, it could be any time, you'll have
to call your local stations if you don't wanna dig through the paper.
(FWIW, here in Beertown it's aired occasionaly (alternating with
episodes of "Xena") on Wednsday nights at 7:00 PM central time on
the "independent" station that's owned by the UPN station.

Don

... Heisenberg might have been here
---
 * Origin: *YOPS ]I[* 3.1 GIG * RA/FD/FE RADist * Milwaukee, WI (1:154/750)

Ä [16] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 43 of 100
 From : David Johnston                      1:342/14        .óá 28 .êò 95 00:07
 To   : Mark David
 Subj : Re: Re: Saab: The Invitro
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
FROM: 2:463/2
TYPE: Unknown area
AREA:SFFAN

-> I can see no use for slave labour in an industialized society. We
-> know, given the AIs, their robotics technology is amazingly
-> advanced--robots would prove far more efficient in the kind of labour
-> we see the invitros pressed into. And probably cheaper, too.

Probably...if they weren't leery of using humanoid robots for anything
as a result of the AI war.

--- PCBoard (R) v15.21/100
 * Origin: Freddy's Place - Edm. AB - 28.8K (403) 456-4241 (1:342/14)

Ä [16] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 44 of 100
 From : Jon Helis                           1:396/40        .óá 28 .êò 95 19:40
 To   : Don Dellmann
 Subj : Re: hercules
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
FROM: 2:463/2
TYPE: Unknown area
AREA:SFFAN
.TID: InterEcho 1.12 6E010867

 -=> Quoting Don Dellmann to Beth Lunney <=-

 DD> While tripping merrily through the mail, Beth Lunney was overheard
 BL> Can anyone tell me when the show Hercules airs? I'd like to start
 BL> watching it, but don't feel like reading through the whole tv guide to
 BL> find out when it's on. Kinda lazy, I know.
 BL> thanks,

 DD> Since it's a "syndicated" show now, it could be any time, you'll have
 DD> to call your local stations if you don't wanna dig through the paper.
 DD> (FWIW, here in Beertown it's aired occasionaly (alternating with
 DD> episodes of "Xena") on Wednsday nights at 7:00 PM central time on
 DD> the "independent" station that's owned by the UPN station.

If you have cable, WGN Chicago airs Hurcules and Xena back to back on Friday
nights at 7:00 P.M. Central.




... Nothing is so simple that it cant get screwed up. ___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12


--- InterEcho 1.12
 * Origin: REUNION BBS, Harahan, La., USA (504) 738-5162 Try God (1:396/40)

Ä [16] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 45 of 100
 From : Tony Trujillo                       1:280/9         .óá 28 .êò 95 02:51
 To   : Keith Stokes
 Subj : Re: Bat villains
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
FROM: 2:463/2
TYPE: Unknown area
AREA:SFFAN
.TID: GE 1.11+

TT>>You mean THE MASK OF THE PHANTASM? I've been meaning to rent
TT>>this one for awhile.
 KS> Thats the one.  I give it a strong recomendation.

::in Buck Wheat voice::

O'tay!!!!

 KS> BTW Its nice to see you around the net again!  Are you going to
 KS> ConTraception?

I don't know if I'd really feel comfortable at a con with
a name like that! :^)

Actually, my next con will be SOONERCON in Okee City. I'm
really looking forward to meeting Zane, Grace, Lonnie, Jo
and some other Fido-nutters from other echoes. It should be
a really cool time.


... HEINLEINEKIN'S: The Strange Beer in a Strange Can
--- Via Silver Xpress V4.02B03 SW01177
 * Origin: South of the River - Overland Park KS - (913)642-7907 V.* (1:280/9)

Ä [16] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 46 of 100
 From : Mark Jones                          1:105/302.47    .åò 26 .êò 95 18:11
 To   : Mark David
 Subj : SAAB: Propulsion Systems
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
FROM: 2:463/2
TYPE: Unknown area
AREA:SFFAN
On (24 Oct 95) Mark David wrote to All...

 MD> As you may or may not know, nuclear power production is really
 MD> just a very fancy steam-turbine system. I can see a pulse-type
 MD> propulsion, matter-antimatter conversion, fussion-generated
 MD> plasma propulsion--but I'm at a loss how one would go about
 MD> making a ship move using fission power. That piddling little core
 MD> we saw in that episode might generate about 100kW or so.

It's quite simple, really.  They use a Dean Drive.  The fission plant
spins a rotor, and the Dean Drive converts the rotary energy into
linear motion!  They're flying through space on the world's biggest
electric drill motor!


--- PPoint 1.78
 * Origin: Folcroft Sanitarium (hsmith@cure.com) (1:105/302.47)

Ä [16] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 47 of 100
 From : Mark Jones                          1:105/302.47    .ÿò 27 .êò 95 18:22
 To   : Mark David
 Subj : SAAB: THE INVITROS
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
FROM: 2:463/2
TYPE: Unknown area
AREA:SFFAN
On (25 Oct 95) Mark David wrote to Ecarey...

 MD> I can see no use for slave labour in an industialized society. We
 MD> know, given the AIs, their robotics technology is amazingly
 MD> advanced--robots would prove far more efficient in the kind of
 MD> labour we see the invitros pressed into. And probably cheaper,
 MD> too.

   "Would you like fries with that?"

   Instead of minimum-wage drones, think of slaves.  What with
pictographic keypads, they wouldn't even need to know how to read to
do a lot of jobs.  Ditto for many grunt labor jobs, even some factory
jobs.  A slightly higher level of slave might indeed be literate and
know how to do basic accounting.  That opens up whole new areas of
labor for slaves.

   Efficiency isn't an absolute.  It's measured in terms of your
goals.  If your goal is to maximize freedom, using robot labor may be
the way to go.  If your goal is to maintain a powerful slave-owning
minority in power, using slaves to run a less technical--but still
fully industrialized economy--robots are a *danger*.
   You might try reading MARCHING THROUGH GEORGIA, UNDER THE YOKE and
THE STONE DOGS by Steve Stirling.  He writes about a 20th century
slave-owning culture that is fully industrialized and all too
believable (in some ways).  And much of what he postulates is backed
up by non-fiction research into slavery in the 18th and 19th century
US (and other nations), mostly in the book WITHOUT CONSENT OR
CONTRACT.
   It appears that the arguments against slavery are mostly moral;
many of the practical arguments are less convincing than they were
once believed to be.



--- PPoint 1.78
 * Origin: Folcroft Sanitarium (hsmith@cure.com) (1:105/302.47)

Ä [16] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 48 of 100
 From : Judy Hayes                          1:154/40        .óá 28 .êò 95 15:37
 To   : Beth Lunney
 Subj : Re: hercules
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
FROM: 2:463/2
TYPE: Unknown area
AREA:SFFAN

->Quoshara reminising about being SWAN, heard Beth say:

 BL> Can anyone tell me when the show Hercules airs? I'd like to start
 BL> watching it, but don't feel like reading through the whole tv guide to
 BL> find out when it's on. Kinda lazy, I know.

Beth,

Since this is an International echo, it would be very helpful if you told us
what area you are in.  <g>

Here in Milwaukee, it airs on Saturday nights at 9 p.m. but if you're not in
this area that won't help you.

 BL>  ! Origin: Alcohol-Caffeine-Nicotine-Chocolate: 4 Food Groups
 BL> (1:323/109)

Yes, I know that these numbers *should* tell me, approximately, where you live
but I've never been able to figure them out. <g>

      --Quoshara


... Take my advice, I don't use it anyway.
---
 * Origin: Anonymous BBS -=- Non plus Ultra -=- 414-251-2580 (1:154/40)

Ä [16] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 49 of 100
 From : Nicolai Shapero                     1:102/524       .óá 28 .êò 95 04:09
 To   : David Johnston
 Subj : Re: Questions, But Are T
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
FROM: 2:463/2
TYPE: Unknown area
AREA:SFFAN
On <Oct 26 00:26>, David Johnston (1:342/14) wrote to Nicolai Shapero:

 DJ>Of course, it would be a great mystery where he was getting his
 DJ>unlimited reaction mass, Tau Prime notwithstanding.

You don't need unlimited reaction mass.  A matter-antimatter reaction drive
(ref. Dr. R. Forward) will allow you to get ruddy close to cee without too
terrible a mass ratio.  And if you try alternative methods (laser launcher and
light sail approach) you can get reasonable percentages (10-20%) of cee with no
real problem of mass ratios at all...

-- Nicolai Shapero, the Mad Russian Sysop of StormGate Aerie


--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [16] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 50 of 100
 From : Niclas Wallander                    2:200/432       .åò 26 .êò 95 21:58
 To   : Pia Adler
 Subj : N.gra fr.gor
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
FROM: 2:463/2
TYPE: Unknown area
AREA:SFFAN
Hej Pia (eller Pidde?)
Jag kÔr nu ett riktigt kom.program i stÄllet fÔr terminalen. Vilken skilnad!
FÄrg och allting.

Det Är dock nÆgra smÆ frÆgor som uppenbarades nÄr jag bÔrjade kika i meddelande
arean som jag undrar om det gÆr att fÆ svar pÆ. Det vore ju trÆkigt att anoya
nÆgon :) (eller ska den va pÆ andra hÆllet (: ) Det finns kanske nÆgot slags
fÔrklarande dokument med FQA. Jag kan ju knappast var den fÔrste som undrar.

FrÆgor:
1 Îr mina ÆÄÔÏÎÙ riktiga?
2 Vad betyder * och RA_ i Meny fÔr Areabyte?
3 Music stÆr det ibland. Kan det lÆta nÆgot?
4 Hur skriver man enklast till nÆgon annan i basen resp. utanfÔr basen, och
spelar det nÆgon roll vilken linje in som man anges vid net-mail om nÆgon
skriver till mig.
5 GÆr det att skriva till nÆgon pÆ Internet och vise versa?
6 Det stÆr SFFAN lÄngst ner. InnebÄr det att det hÄr meddelandet kommer att
hamna i den arean?. Skulle den ha gjort det ber jag hemskt mycket om ursÄkt. Jag
trodde att om man skrev till sysop sÆ kom det dit.

Tack och hej och Lev vÄl.
HÄlsningar Niclas i Lund

---
 * Origin: "The Lady BBS", 10 GB files, 4 nodes ! (2:200/432)

Ä [16] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 51 of 100
 From : Jeff Hancock                        1:3600/7        .ÿò 27 .êò 95 21:05
 To   : Frank Glover
 Subj : The Long Twilight Sp
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

FG>JH>  Does anyone get the impression G'Kar knows what's happening to
FG>JH>the Narn fleet as he's praying?
FG>   I think it was more a case of anticipating and fearing exactly
FG>what was happening.

It must have been, I mean, there's no way he should have been able to
know.

The thing is... How could he have even really guessed about the battle
at Gorash 7? I can see him anticipating that Homeworld would be attacked
while the Narn fleet was elsewhere, and guessing further that the fleet
would be unable to return or stop the attack, but he had no reason to
suspect that the Centauri (or company) would be able to put up a massive
enough defense to stop the fleet. The Warmaster expected it to succeed
under even the worst (Centauri ;) conditions, even with G'kar knowing
about the Shadows, he would have to assume that they would somehow get
word of the attack and there was no way he could have known about that;
no connection between Franklin's contact and the suspected attack on
Homeworld to lead to the total defeat at Gorash 7.

-=-
 * Crazy-J * "It drives like a truck."  "Good. What is a truck?"

--- SLMAIL v3.5C  (#1540)
 * Origin: Robotech þ Lake City's Music*Demo BBS þ [904] 758*9477 (1:3600/7)

Ä [16] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 52 of 100
 From : Jeff Hancock                        1:3600/7        .ÿò 27 .êò 95 21:12
 To   : Mark Holtz
 Subj : The Long Twilight Sp
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

MH>I still enjoyed the episode, even after six viewings before it aired.

I've seen it three times so far.

It may seem odd, but I think "The Coming of Shadows" was still a better
episode overall, it wasn't as good in some respects but it was better
... balanced is the only word I can think of. Then again, it wasn't
quite as depressing. ;)

MH>the Narn vs. Shadows, we cut between the battle and G'Kar praying
MH>like heck.

Actually, I rather disliked that... I mean is this a battle or a music
video? ;-)

MH>And, when the Narn were all defeated, G'Kar just knew, and
MH>entinquised the candle.

That was an intriguing touch, but I still don't see how it should work.
Maybe it's like that "A woman in Seattle burns her hand on a hot stove,
half a continent away her sister cries out in pain." deal. ;-)

MH> JH> What is with that funky music and Sheridan in the shower? ;) And
MH>How many of us thought it was Ivanova?

Heh. For some reason I don't think I did, but it was certainly suggested
at, and considering Ivanova's little karma problem. ;)

MH> JH> I thought Draal was a bit of a pompous, preachy fellow during
MH>A little too dramatic.

Yes, yes, that's it. Fun, though, wasn't he? I think him and Delenn's
Fraggin' line were the only humorous bits in the whole episode.

MH> JH> I *like* the Narn Warmaster. Too bad... but what a way to go!
MH>Let's see here, W. Morgan Shepperd appeared twice on B5. Both times,
MH>he died.

I don't remember his first role.

But hey, as long as he returns as the Shadow's leader....
-=-
 * Crazy-J * <BLAM!>  "It was a boring conversation anyway."

--- SLMAIL v3.5C  (#1540)
 * Origin: Robotech þ Lake City's Music*Demo BBS þ [904] 758*9477 (1:3600/7)

Ä [16] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 53 of 100
 From : Dan Kachoogian                      1:107/953       .ÿò 27 .êò 95 12:02
 To   : Sunsparc
 Subj : Re: B5: Shadow War Prediction
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
*** Quoting Sunsparc to Steve Wiser ***

Su> As predicted by yours truly, Delenns Compatriot is now going
Su> to
Su> help B5 ...... with all that firepower, the shadows are no match
Su>
Su> We'll have to wait for awile now to see about the other
Su> predictions
Su>
Su> What about Your Predictions? Let's hear your
Su> side..........Sunsparc

Well, I doubt the shadow war will be easy. It'll be on a lot of fronts, and it
will be won ... but not without significant losses.

Lets just hope that it stays on the air for the full 5 season story.

BTW: When those shadow ships fight, they seem quite capable of kicking butt.
They sure hosed up everything we've seen so far. And the reaction of two of them
to damage in the battle (in the episode where the narn/centauri war ended) seems
to imply the ships are alive, at least in a sense...

                                                       -Dan

---
 * Origin: The Juice Bar BBS (908) 298-0764 (1:107/953)

Ä [16] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 54 of 100
 From : Todd Sullivan                       1:202/720.3     .åò 26 .êò 95 10:42
 To   : Starwolf
 Subj : Re: Kubrik?
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Whilst falling into the sun on 23 Oct 95, Starwolf yelled to Michael Harper:

 S> Oh, OK.  The original post hadn't been clear as to the separation
 S> between director and personality.  I can't comment on the latter save to
 S> say 'was'.  He's been dead from some time.

 S> As for THE SHINING, I didn't much care for it, either.

I avoid any teleplays done from books, as you lose a lot in the process, never
mind what the producers add to it.

I certainly don't recall the "elevator releasing a flood of blood" scene from
the book, and I had read it only four to six months before the movie was
released.

Todd Sullivan

... Do misbehaving witches get sent to the broom closet?

-*- ASTG 1.9

--- Spot 1.3a Unregistered
 * Origin: Todd's Spot in the Continuum (1:202/720.3)

Ä [16] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 55 of 100
 From : Todd Sullivan                       1:202/720.3     .åò 26 .êò 95 10:50
 To   : Mark David
 Subj : Re: SAAB: Propulsion Systems
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Whilst falling into the sun on 24 Oct 95, Mark David yelled to All:

 MD> Hi all.

 MD> I am reffering to the Oct. 8 episode (the one before last--sorry, I
 MD> didn't  catch the title).

 MD> The cargo craft uses a nuclear propulsion system (I cite the numerous
 MD> refrences to technology currently in use, ie. control rods, feul cells,
 MD> ect.)

 MD> Thoughts?

The system is/was the NERVA.  I have no idea that the acronym really stands for,
but it's basically taking an inert reaction mass and passing it through a
high-temp fission reactor, vaporizing and expelling the mass. They were referred
to as "steam Kettles", as the first proposal was for water.  There were
experiments done in the '50's and '60's, as I saw some test footage somewhere on
Discovery, but were dropped due to (then) technical problems.  S:AAB assumes
that it's been more or less perfected.


Todd Sullivan

... "It is easier to stay out than get out." -Twain

-*- ASTG 1.9

--- Spot 1.3a Unregistered
 * Origin: Todd's Spot in the Continuum (1:202/720.3)

Ä [16] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 56 of 100
 From : Todd Sullivan                       1:202/720.3     .óá 28 .êò 95 09:40
 To   : Meredith Billington
 Subj : Re: Movies and shows
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Whilst falling into the sun on 26 Oct 95, Meredith Billington yelled to All:

 MB>         I was wondering what do you think is/are the best Sci-Fi flicks
 MB> and shows are?

Hmmmm.  You can ask some dillies... :^)

I want to preface this with, not quite a demand, but a strongly made request:
No bashing anyone's preferences, please.  Everyone here has different tastes,
and attacking them is about as intelligent as attacking someone for other
likes/dislikes, ie.,* NOT*!

Sorry, Nicolai, but I felt it had to be said.

Favorite episodic TV:  Outer Limits
Favorite "themed" TV:  Star Trek, TOS

Favorite Movie Group:  Star Wars Trilogy (of those, "Empire") Favorite Movie:
Logan's Run (just for its differences from the book) Favorite Pilot:  Voyage To
The Bottom of the Sea

Todd Sullivan

... "Do you really want the answer?  The ULTIMATE answer?" --Deep Thought

-*- ASTG 1.9

--- Spot 1.3a Unregistered
 * Origin: Todd's Spot in the Continuum (1:202/720.3)

Ä [16] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 57 of 100
 From : Todd Sullivan                       1:202/720.3     .ÿò 27 .êò 95 10:57
 To   : Frank Glover
 Subj : Re: More faves...
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Whilst falling into the sun on 24 Oct 95, Frank Glover yelled to me:

 FG>
 TS>>  ... When agnostics die, do they go to the Great Perhaps?
 FG>
 FG>    Maybe.
 FG>
 FG>    (I know you didn't write the tagline, but I couldn't resist.)

I don't doubt it; I've been told that parts of me are irresistable.

<Maniacal laughter>

Todd Sullivan

... "Strange brew killed what's inside of you." --Cream

-*- ASTG 1.9

--- Spot 1.3a Unregistered
 * Origin: Todd's Spot in the Continuum (1:202/720.3)

Ä [16] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 58 of 100
 From : Raj Gabrielse                       2:2802/322.2    .cê 29 .êò 95 00:15
 To   : Jeff Hancock
 Subj : The Long Twilight Sp  1/2
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 | Greetings Jeff! |>---> ==_-=-

 Sol date, 23-Oct-95 at 17:57:00...
 in a state of mind that boldly went where no one went before,
 Jeff Hancock transmitted this message to All...

 JH>                    THE LONG TWILIGHT SPOILER
   >
   >        [space previously occupied by a warped picture]

 Nice, what did it portrait? I could vagely recognize some features, but it
 seems to have gone warp 10 <g> once to often?...

 Would ya be so kind and route this ship a second time round? I have a hunch
 it will be a great addition for my collection once it's less 'warped'.;-)

 Your efforts would be much apreciated...;->

 PS. Other works of ASCII/ANSI ST:... Art is also very welcomed...;->>>

 PSS. would the designer of this Enterprice please identify him/herself for
 due credit reference?

 . --- . | \\//. 'Live Long and Prosper'               ____.-._____   _________
 \'o^o`/ | Gjar'c @DINet.NL, on 29-Oct-1995 at 00:15       `-'    \\______||_
  `-=-'  | Where the strange and bizarre become normal...        }[_______,--'
--- Terminate 3.00/Pro
 * Origin: Hello, I am point number ¦ºÞº¦º¦Û¦ºÝ¦ºÝ¦¦ (2:2802/322.2)

Ä [16] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 59 of 100
 From : Chris Carter                        1:105/290.23    .óá 28 .êò 95 07:10
 To   : Jon Helis
 Subj : The Long Twilight Sp
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On (25 Oct 95) Jon Helis wrote to Chris Carter...

 CC> Spoilers below.  Cool spoilerguard removed to save bandwidth.
 CC> 25 carriage returns inserted.
























 JH> What I found interesting(that nobody has talked about) was
 JH> that there was a reference to "Babylon Squared" in one scene
 JH> with Draal.  I wonder what his roll in the taking of Babylon 4
 JH> was.

I don't know, but it ought to be cool.  That throwaway line about
Zathrus does get one to thinking, eh...

Chris - carter@teleport.com


... Illudium Phosdex - the Shaving Cream Atom

--- PPoint 1.98
 * Origin: Grid Epsilon Coords. 105x290x23 (1:105/290.23)

Ä [16] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 60 of 100
 From : Jackson Raster                      1:3637/77       .cê 29 .êò 95 10:18
 To   : Todd Sullivan
 Subj : Re: More faves...
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

-> Whilst falling into the sun on 18 Oct 95, Jackson Raster yelled to Al
->
->  JR> Has anyone else become a fan of the Warlock series by Christophe
->  JR> Stasheff? Or possibly the Crosstime Engineer series by Leo Frank
->  JR> How about the Guardians of the Flame series by Rosenberg? I'd lo
->  JR> good discussions about these on this echo...
->
-> Stasheff, yes.  The others I've not seen.  Warning:  Haven't read bey
-> Warlock Rock", so we'll see.
->
-> Todd Sullivan
->
-> ... When agnostics die, do they go to the Great Perhaps?
->
-> -*- ASTG 1.9
->
-> --- Spot 1.3a Unregistered
->  * Origin: Todd's Spot in the Continuum (1:202/720.3)You really need

to get past Warlock Rock....it was the worst one...don't get
disappointed...
-JTR
---
--- WcToss for WildCat!  V1.8 [UnReg]
 * Origin: Coles Kingdom BBS 615-657-5708 14.4KBPS! (1:3637/77)

Ä [16] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 61 of 100
 From : Jackson Raster                      1:3637/77       .cê 29 .êò 95 10:29
 To   : Todd Sullivan
 Subj : Re: Voyager: Non Sequiter
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Then we are agreed...<grin>
-JTR
---
--- WcToss for WildCat!  V1.8 [UnReg]
 * Origin: Coles Kingdom BBS 615-657-5708 14.4KBPS! (1:3637/77)

Ä [16] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 62 of 100
 From : Teresa Beacher                      21:400/102      .pä 18 .êò 95 19:13
 To   : All
 Subj : Earth 2
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Does anyone know if if the Doctor in Earth 2 played Pilot in Captain Power.

--- FMail/386 0.98
 * Origin: Pern_Dragon_BBS (3:640/321.2)

Ä [16] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 63 of 100
 From : Michael Harper                      1:123/10        .cê 29 .êò 95 13:58
 To   : Dkimmel
 Subj : KUBRICK
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
My dislike of Kubrick stems from his attitude toward actors and screenwriters,
especially toward the latter. At one time I felt somewhat the way you do, but
the hatchet job he did on "The Shining" soured me on him. King may be a hack,
but at least he's honest about it; Kubrick thinks he's an artiste', and he's not
even as good as King. Without the talents of writers, cinematographers, sfx
techs and, yes, actors, Kubrick wouldn't even be the halfass hack excuse for a
director that he is. The man's a hasbeen; file him away with Cimino, De Palma
and all the other ex-champions. If I want to see the work of a master, I'll
watch a film by Fred Zinnemann or John Huston. At least they're honest workmen
who try to entertain you.
--- RA/FD/FMail
 * Origin: The Electric Fox - Memphis,TN, U.S.A.  1-901-327-1008 (1:123/10)

Ä [16] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 64 of 100
 From : The Raven                           1:363/309       .cê 29 .êò 95 01:44
 To   : All
 Subj : Vir Cotto
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
     Does anyone else think that Vir is most likely going to become one of
G'Kar's greatest assets in the coming months?  Helping out the Narn
resistance?  Perhaps even eventually becoming a ranger...

     Jack Butler




... Cthulhu of Borg:  *Truly* too terrible to even think about!
--- Blue Wave/RA v2.20 [NR]
 * Origin: Forethought BBS -=- 1:363/309 -=- 407-277-7530 (1:363/309)

Ä [16] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 65 of 100
 From : Brion Lienhart                      1:213/700.2     .cê 29 .êò 95 19:37
 To   : Patrick Long
 Subj : Q HEADING FOR VOYAGER
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
So, what excuse are they going to use for Q not sending them back to Federation
Space?



--- QM v1.31
 * Origin: Ministry of Truth - Carson City, NV (1:213/700.2)

Ä [16] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 66 of 100
 From : Brion Lienhart                      1:213/700.2     .cê 29 .êò 95 19:37
 To   : Gerry Normandeau
 Subj : Re: Personal Favorites
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On Fri Oct 27, Gerry Normandeau said to Jackson Raster:
[Ringworld RPG]

 -GN> I think it was put out by GDW but I realy could be wrong.};>
 -GN>  The system has been out of print for some years now so your going to
 -GN>have to dig deep in the sale bins to find it! };<

Guess what, you're really wrong. 8-(;-)
It was published by Chaosium in the early 80s. It was one of their Basic
Roleplaying System games, and a lot of people didn't like it much.




--- QM v1.31
 * Origin: Ministry of Truth - Carson City, NV (1:213/700.2)

Ä [16] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 67 of 100
 From : Brion Lienhart                      1:213/700.2     .cê 29 .êò 95 19:42
 To   : Michael Harper
 Subj : Oook!
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On Wed Oct 25, Michael Harper said to Beverley Cote:

 -MH>Now I've gotta go find a copy of the new one, "Lords And Ladies". The
 -MH>thing in the advert says mething about a football team that gets the
 -MH>crap beat out of them by a gang of elves.

It was the Morris Dancing team, not a football team. The more or less acted like
a football team though. Full body contact Morris Dancing. 8-(;-)




--- QM v1.31
 * Origin: Ministry of Truth - Carson City, NV (1:213/700.2)

Ä [16] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 68 of 100
 From : Todd Sullivan                       1:202/720.3     .óá 28 .êò 95 14:45
 To   : The Raven
 Subj : Re: Dr. Bashir name change
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Whilst falling into the sun on 27 Oct 95, The Raven yelled to Samantha Dobbs:

 SD>> I just found out that the actor who plays Dr. Bashir has changed his
 SD>> name! Siddig El Fadil is now Alexander Siddig! I have no idea why he
 SD>> changed it, but I know he had a dog called Alex! Maybe the dog is now
 SD>> Siddig!

 TR>      He explained it in a TV Guide interview.  He changed his name
 TR> because people have difficulty with his name.  Anyway, he came up with
 TR> Alexander by looking through a book of baby names but never made it past
 TR> the a's.

You don't suppose it could be because Worf's son is named
"Alexander"--Nnaaaahhhhhh!  <VBEG>

Todd Sullivan

... Everyone is gifted, but some open the package sooner.

-*- ASTG 1.9

--- Spot 1.3a Unregistered
 * Origin: Todd's Spot in the Continuum (1:202/720.3)

Ä [16] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 69 of 100
 From : Todd Sullivan                       1:202/720.3     .óá 28 .êò 95 14:49
 To   : Jeff Hancock
 Subj : Re: B5 Vs St
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Whilst falling into the sun on 26 Oct 95, Jeff Hancock yelled to Owen E. Oulton:

 OEO>> Not really...  The Federation displays are still the flying bars.  I
 OEO>> think what Phil is mistaking for Cardassian-style graphics is the

 JH> Well, I'll let you argue it out with him. I haven't paid all *that* much
 JH> attention. ;-)

 OEO>> expanded- function circular "Joystick-pad" which has been on all

 JH> I have occasionally wondered how effective that really is. Granted,
 JH> flying a starship is no Nintendo game, and the computer generally
 JH> handles all the minor little details, but still...

It varies by station:

Conn:  Manual flight/thruster control.
Ops: Manual sensor adjustments.
Tactical: Manual weapons targeting/selection.

Note that this is *manual*.  There's no way it could be done that way normally.
In automatic, they'd be used for minor corrections or adjustments.  That much
was only very occasionally shown.  What I said above is paraphrased from the TNG
Tech Manual.  Hmm.  Manual:  Manual page turner. <znerk!>

Todd Sullivan

... Easter has been cancelled:  They found the body.

-*- ASTG 1.9

--- Spot 1.3a Unregistered
 * Origin: Todd's Spot in the Continuum (1:202/720.3)

Ä [16] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 70 of 100
 From : Todd Sullivan                       1:202/720.3     .óá 28 .êò 95 14:54
 To   : David Johnston
 Subj : Re: Saab: The Invitro
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Whilst falling into the sun on 28 Oct 95, David Johnston yelled to Mark David:

 ->> I can see no use for slave labour in an industialized society. We know,
 ->> given the AIs, their robotics technology is amazingly advanced--robots
 ->> would prove far more efficient in the kind of labour we see the invitros
 ->> pressed into. And probably cheaper, too.

 DJ> Probably...if they weren't leery of using humanoid robots for anything
 DJ> as a result of the AI war.

Another factor is that hostile environments ( to machines) are not a serious
problem to humans.  The 'tanks' wouldn't need their systems and so forth cleaned
of dirt/dust, they're not susceptible to electromagnetic fields, don't
short-circuit, can stand greater temperatures and ranges, and don't require
costly and involved maintenance.

Can you imagine a robotic unit digging ditches without grinding to a halt from
the dirt getting into its joints?  Neither can I.

Todd Sullivan

... "Hell."  What a fortunate word to choose. --LeCroix

-*- ASTG 1.9

--- Spot 1.3a Unregistered
 * Origin: Todd's Spot in the Continuum (1:202/720.3)

Ä [16] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 71 of 100
 From : Phill Ash                           1:275/160       .åò 26 .êò 95 06:22
 To   : Steven Wesen
 Subj : Red Dwarf
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE 1.1+

 SW> You said you had series 6 6months ago and it was shown originaly on
 SW> BEEB a year ago .

        I don't know what I said...
        You didn't bother to quote <G>

        Besides, I haven't been in the UK since Feb of 94 and it was
        easily a few months before that...

        What I probably said was "I saw series 6, months ago, when it
        first ran on the BBC2"


Your pal:  PhlAsh
---
 þ PhlAshMail 1.0 þ Black holes result from God dividing by zero.
~~~ ReneWave v1.01 [NR]
--- GEcho 1.10+
 * Origin: * The Beast's Lair * (804)498-3070 * Va Beach VA * (1:275/160)

Ä [16] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 72 of 100
 From : Steve Wiser                         1:264/417       .cê 29 .êò 95 19:45
 To   : Sunsparc
 Subj : Re: B5: Shadow War Predic
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12  94-2151
Hello :

I think the Shadows will win in the short run, putting the "Army of
Light" on its back side so to speak, making them go underground for a
while fighting a gorilla war for a period.  Say year three is one of
the Shadows winning, the year of the Shadow War.  Last part of three
and four would be the gorilla war and restructuing of forces where the
Shadows and their allies are seen to have won with life under the
Shadows being what is shown.  Year five would be the turning point for
the Forces of Light, with the return of some 'old ones' (maybe earlies
than this).

I know this is pure speculation with no foundation but its one
direction JMS make take us.  I am enjoying every minute of it.

Steve Wiser

---
 * KWQ/2 1.2g * Rush is Right.

--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12
 * Origin: The Richmond Connection, Richmond, VA  804-740-2186  (1:264/417.0)

Ä [16] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 73 of 100
 From : Bobb Waller                         1:124/5023      .îí 30 .êò 95 22:46
 To   : All
 Subj : Official Babylon 5 Hmpage
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 * Crossposted from: Babylon_5

I just got of from spending an hour on the B5 Home Page.
Not the Lurkers Guide, but the Warner Bros. home page!!!!!
Even with simple IRC chat for Babblers!

Neat sounds and such, here is the address:
----


----

See everyone there!


bbwaller@iadfw.net  is Bobb Waller Sysop of FIAWOL-BBS
Dedicated to both Fandom and empowering the disABLED

... I don't mean to alarm you but your pants are talking to you.

___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20

--- Alexi/Mail 2.02b (#10000)
 * Origin: FIAWOL/MSConnections * PP288MT II V.34 * 214-790-6472 * (1:124/5023)

Ä [16] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 74 of 100
 From : Bobb Waller                         1:124/5023      .îí 30 .êò 95 23:02
 To   : All
 Subj : Official Babylon 5 Hmpage
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 * Crossposted from: Babylon_5

I just got of from spending an hour on the B5 Home Page.
Not the Lurkers Guide, but the Warner Bros. home page!!!!!
Even with simple IRC chat for Babblers!

Neat sounds and such, here is the address:
----
http://pathfinder.com/@@*FeipPF@xwAAQNFK/Babylon5/

----

See everyone there!


bbwaller@iadfw.net  is Bobb Waller Sysop of FIAWOL-BBS
Dedicated to both Fandom and empowering the disABLED

... I don't mean to alarm you but your pants are talking to you.

___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20

___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20

--- Alexi/Mail 2.02b (#10000)
 * Origin: FIAWOL/MSConnections * PP288MT II V.34 * 214-790-6472 * (1:124/5023)

Ä [16] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 75 of 100
 From : Don Dellmann                        1:154/40        .îí 30 .êò 95 06:28
 To   : Jon Helis
 Subj : Re: hercules
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
While tripping merrily through the mail, Jon Helis was overheard

 DD> Since it's a "syndicated" show now, it could be any time, you'll have
 DD> to call your local stations if you don't wanna dig through the paper.
 DD> (FWIW, here in Beertown it's aired occasionaly (alternating with
 DD> episodes of "Xena") on Wednsday nights at 7:00 PM central time on
 DD> the "independent" station that's owned by the UPN station.

 JH> If you have cable, WGN Chicago airs Hurcules and Xena back to back on
 JH> Friday nights at 7:00 P.M. Central.

After I saw the message from the other young lady here in beertown I
checked our listings, and found our local "independent" (It's owned and
operated by the UPN station), does the same thing, and looking at the
program descriptions, Friday night is a repeat of the Wednesday night
show.  (Not that I'm a fanatic about Xena, actually I have a crush on
Gabriella <G>).

Don
... I'm Heisenberg of Borg. Then again maybe I'm not.
---
 * Origin: Anonymous BBS -=- Non plus Ultra -=- 414-251-2580 (1:154/40)

Ä [16] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 76 of 100
 From : Beverley Cote                       1:134/32.9      .óá 28 .êò 95 17:23
 To   : Michael Harper
 Subj : Oook!
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Hi Michael!

25 Oct 95:  Michael Harper------>Beverley Cote

 MH> Yeah, but it's all those odd little references to Buddy Holly and
 MH> Elvis and so on that had me rolling... :)

Have you ever read a book called 'Buddy Holly Is Alive And Well And
Living On Ganymede"? I can't remember the author right now... it's
hilarious!

peace
Beverley

... For more information, send a self-obsessed stomped antelope.

--- PPoint 1.98
 * Origin: ... Australia in '99                  :) (1:134/32.9)

Ä [16] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 77 of 100
 From : The Raven                           1:363/309       .îí 30 .êò 95 11:52
 To   : Marc Zingarelli
 Subj : Highlander:  New Season
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 TR>     Yep.  Something I we will see at least one more time in the series...
 TR>mainly because I know that something major is going to happen, and I'm not
 TR>going to tell you what it is.  Nyah nyah nyah.  <G>

 MZ> I hate it when you do this!!!!!  You're such a tease Jack.

     Oh, just rumors and more rumors.


 TR>... "Correction.  I'm the oldest *known* Immortal." -- Methos

 MZ> This tagline brings up a couple what ifs on its own.

     Its from a fan-created story I thought highly of.

     Jack Butler



... *Never* mess with Richie...
--- Blue Wave/RA v2.20 [NR]
 * Origin: Forethought BBS -=- 1:363/309 -=- 407-277-7530 (1:363/309)

Ä [16] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 78 of 100
 From : Beverley Cote                       1:134/32.9      .îí 30 .êò 95 15:03
 To   : Tony Trujillo
 Subj : Bat villains
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Hi Tony,

28 Oct 95:  Tony Trujillo------>Keith Stokes

 KS> BTW Its nice to see you around the net again!  Are you going to
 KS> ConTraception?

 TT> I don't know if I'd really feel comfortable at a con with
 TT> a name like that! :^)

It would be a lot more comfortable that one called ConCeption! :)

Beverley

... Aw, come on guys, can't you take a #@%#^*%NO CARRIER

--- PPoint 1.98
 * Origin: ... Australia in '99                  :) (1:134/32.9)

Ä [16] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 79 of 100
 From : Beverley Cote                       1:134/32.9      .îí 30 .êò 95 15:06
 To   : The Raven
 Subj : Vir Cotto
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Hello Jack,

29 Oct 95:  The Raven------>All

 TR>      Does anyone else think that Vir is most likely going to become
 TR> one of G'Kar's greatest assets in the coming months?  Helping out the
 TR> Narn resistance?  Perhaps even eventually becoming a ranger...

I think it was Vir who got the message through, from the families on
the Narn homeworld, which allowed G'Kar to keep his leadership.

Beverley

... 2 rules for success: #1 Don't tell everything you know.

--- PPoint 1.98
 * Origin: ... Australia in '99                  :) (1:134/32.9)

Ä [16] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 80 of 100
 From : Lyndon Soerensen                    1:140/96        .ÿò 27 .êò 95 22:25
 To   : Nicolai Shapero
 Subj : X-FILES BURGEONING
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 -=> Quoting Nicolai Shapero to Lyndon Soerensen <=-

 NS> Please, no IBM graphics characters -- your sig line includes them, and
 NS> the

rules of this conference forbid them (some systems just up and

 NS> die when

handed a message containing same).

 My apologies.  Had I read the rules a little closer, I woulda know. :(

 NS> Thanks,

 No prob.


... The Management reserves the right to serve refuse to anyone.
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
 * Origin: The Holistic BBS (1:140/96)

Ä [16] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 81 of 100
 From : Jeff Hancock                        1:3600/7        .cê 29 .êò 95 22:11
 To   : Chris Carter
 Subj : The Long Twilight Sp
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

CC>Spoilers below.  Cool spoilerguard removed to save bandwidth.  25

Everything removed. Thanks to Fidolag, it's a moot point.

CC> JH> A rather interesting pattern of city lights on the surface of
CC> JH> Centauri Prime.
CC>You'll have to fill me in on this one, as I didn't notice a pattern.

Well, I'm not saying there *was* a specific pattern, but there kind of
*appeared* to be a pattern, if that makes any sense.

I can't remember if we've seen it in the daylight, so the city layout
may just be influenced by the shape of the land, rivers, and sea like
ours. Still, it almost appeared to form a pattern of sorts, and I had
the fleeting thought that the Centauri might have redesigned their
planetary city layout to take the form of a certain symbol when seen
from space.

CC> JH> What is with that funky music and Sheridan in the shower?
CC>More of the magic of Christopher Franke, I'd imagine.  Don't you
CC>listen to music when you're showering?

Well, no.... I just thought that particular music was a little odd.
Suited the character of Draal just fine, though! ;-)

CC>Think of Draal as a professor at a major university.  These sorts of
CC>folks do often times get a bit full of themselves, and speak
CC>accordingly.  I thought the obviously preplanned speech, intercut
CC>with more conversational phrases was brilliant and funny.

No disagreement here.

CC> JH> And the way Londo and Refa's faces are partially shadowed by
CC>                                                      ^^^^^^^^
CC> JH> the poor lighting during the argument.... laying it on a bit
CC> JH> thick perhaps? ;)
CC>Think about it. ;~)

What else would be laid on thick?

CC> JH> I thought the Narn should have had more fighters, though.
CC>There may have been more fighters, but most of the combat was viewed
CC>on the scale of capital ships.  Fighters were lost against the
CC>background most of the time.

I know, and I was kind of complaining about that too. Granted, it may
have been to counterpoint Star Wars, where one wonders at times why they
need capital ships at all. ;-)  But all the same, I would have loved a
shot or two focusing on the smaller fighters as they fly near and around
the capital ships (getting blown up in the process as the larger ships
get fragged, no doubt).

One point I was curious about but never figured out until someone else
pointed it out, is that one of the Shadow Spitfires actually takes out
the engine of one of the Narn capital ships by suiciding into it. You
really have to be watching it carefully, it's just a speck that flies
straight into the engine core, and you can even hear its death cry
(which I figured was just part of the soundtrack until I noticed it).

Now if they had just shown a close-up... I doubt ANYONE caught that the
first time around.


However, judging by the previews for next week, we should see some
fighter action in The Fall of Night. And boy, the station is looking a
little half-a....rmed as a result! ;-)

CC> JH> Okay, did anyone else not care for the intercuts of G'Kar
CC>I think this was supposed to make the battle more personal, as well
CC>as reflect G'Kar's foreboding about it.  I didn't have a problem with

Well, I guess you're right, but it still kind of took away a little from
the action as well.

CC>One might think that even the relatively small amount of damage done
CC>to the Shadow cruiser was enough to incapacitate it, because it was
CC>in *pain*.

I was wondering about that myself. It *does* fire one of the jump-point
nullifiers, so it can't be all that bad off.

Another interesting bit I noticed on a review is that one of the spines
actually appears to bend as the ship turns. I'm not sure if it does, due
to perspective, but I think it does.

-=-
 * Crazy-J * "Stay close to the Vorlon... He's warm on cold nights!"

--- SLMAIL v3.5C  (#1540)
 * Origin: Robotech þ Lake City's Music*Demo BBS þ [904] 758*9477 (1:3600/7)

Ä [16] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 82 of 100
 From : Jeff Hancock                        1:3600/7        .cê 29 .êò 95 22:13
 To   : Chris Carter
 Subj : The Long Twilight Sp
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

CC> JH> The VORLON government filed protests against the Centauri as
CC>Remember, the Vorlons still have to give the impression that they're
CC>'just like everybody else,' rather than gadding about saying, "Hi.

Heh. Snicker. But what happened to "We take no interest in the affairs
of others.", eh?

CC>We're the Ancient Ones, and we're here to help you kick some Shadow
CC>ass." Filing protests, and doing nothing to back them up, makes the

<g>

CC>Vorlons look just as ridiculous as everyone else in the Council
CC>chambers.

Oh, I'm sure the Centauri will get their card punched by the Vorlons.
Just not quite yet.
-=-
 * Crazy-J * What, STILL no messages in the LURKERS echo?

--- SLMAIL v3.5C  (#1540)
 * Origin: Robotech þ Lake City's Music*Demo BBS þ [904] 758*9477 (1:3600/7)

Ä [16] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 83 of 100
 From : Jeff Hancock                        1:3600/7        .cê 29 .êò 95 22:17
 To   : The Raven
 Subj : The Long Twilight Sp
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

TR>     Not to mention the fact that I seem to remember that Epsilon 3's
TR>facilities had an unbreathable atmosphere.  Draal has apparently been
TR>a busy guy...

But of course, seeing how he redesigned other parts of the architechure.

But who can expect full continuity in this kind of thing? I mean, after
Ivanova and Sinclair set off that first laser booby trap, none of the
other visitors ever had to worry about it, did they?

Anyway, since Varn could provide normal air in that one room before, I'm
sure Draal could cover the entire base - or at least the area where
visitors would be travelling.

So, does this mean Zathras can breath a wide range of atmospheres?

-=-
 * Crazy-J * "Donuts...is there anything they CAN'T do?"-Homer Simpson

--- SLMAIL v3.5C  (#1540)
 * Origin: Robotech þ Lake City's Music*Demo BBS þ [904] 758*9477 (1:3600/7)

Ä [16] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 84 of 100
 From : Nicolai Shapero                     1:102/524       .îí 30 .êò 95 04:59
 To   : Mark Jones
 Subj : SAAB: THE INVITROS
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Oct 27 18:22>, Mark Jones (1:105/302.47) wrote to Mark David:

 MJ>   You might try reading MARCHING THROUGH GEORGIA, UNDER THE YOKE
 MJ>and
 MJ>THE STONE DOGS by Steve Stirling.  He writes about a 20th century
 MJ>slave-owning culture that is fully industrialized and all too
 MJ>believable (in some ways).

It's S.M. Stirling, and S. M. Stirling is a SHE, not a HE.

Just thought you might like to know.  (By the by, she's a marine, too...)

-- Nicolai Shapero, the Mad Russian Sysop of StormGate Aerie

--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [16] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 85 of 100
 From : Nicolai Shapero                     1:102/524       .îí 30 .êò 95 05:00
 To   : Niclas Wallander
 Subj : N.gra fr.gor
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Oct 26 21:58>, Niclas Wallander (2:200/432) wrote to Pia Adler:

 NW>Hej Pia (eller Pidde?)
 NW>Jag kÔr nu ett riktigt kom.program i stÄllet fÔr terminalen.
 NW>Vilken skilnad! FÄrg och allting.

 NW>Det Är dock nÆgra smÆ frÆgor som uppenbarades nÄr jag bÔrjade
 NW>kika i meddelande arean som jag undrar om det gÆr att fÆ svar pÆ.
 NW>Det vore ju trÆkigt att anoya nÆgon :) (eller ska den va pÆ andra
 NW>hÆllet (: ) Det finns kanske nÆgot slags fÔrklarande dokument med
 NW>FQA. Jag kan ju knappast var den fÔrste som undrar.

Excuse please, but English is the official language of this conference.  If
you're going to post in any other language, please post a translation of your
message in the same posting.  If you are sending ONLY to another single person
who knows the language, please use Netmail, not this conference.

Thank you for your cooperation,

-- Nicolai Shapero, Moderator of the SFFAN echo

--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [16] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 86 of 100
 From : Kay Shapero                         1:102/524       .îí 30 .êò 95 11:33
 To   : Meredith Billington
 Subj : Movies and shows
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Oct 26 20:04>, Meredith Billington (1:109/611) wrote to All:

 MB>        I was wondering what do you think is/are the best Sci-Fi
 MB>flicks and shows are?

Current or all time?  My current favorite SF TV shows are ST:DS9 and Babylon 5.


--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [16] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 87 of 100
 From : David Reffitt                       1:280/341       .òp 31 .êò 95 06:37
 To   : The Raven
 Subj : Re: Vir Cotto
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
I will more than agree with you on the fact the Vir will side with G'Kar and
maybe(just maybe) kill Londo? You think?

---
 * Origin: Beyond the Pale 913-384-1577 (1:280/341)

Ä [16] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 88 of 100
 From : David Johnston                      1:342/14        .òp 31 .êò 95 00:04
 To   : Nicolai Shapero
 Subj : Re: Questions, But Are T
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
-> DJ>Of course, it would be a great mystery where he was getting his
-> DJ>unlimited reaction mass, Tau Prime notwithstanding.
-> You don't need unlimited reaction mass.  A matter-antimatter reaction
-> drive (ref. Dr. R. Forward) will allow you to get ruddy close to cee
-> without too

According to Isaac Asimov, it would require huge amounts of antimatter,
even to move a small capsule sized object at relativistic speeds.

--- PCBoard (R) v15.21/100
 * Origin: Freddy's Place - Edm. AB - 28.8K (403) 456-4241 (1:342/14)

Ä [16] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 89 of 100
 From : David Johnston                      1:342/14        .òp 31 .êò 95 00:05
 To   : Brion Lienhart
 Subj : Q Heading For Voyager
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
-> So, what excuse are they going to use for Q not sending them back to
-> Federation Space?

Why would Q send them back to Federation space?

--- PCBoard (R) v15.21/100
 * Origin: Freddy's Place - Edm. AB - 28.8K (403) 456-4241 (1:342/14)

Ä [16] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 90 of 100
 From : Scott Sims                          1:3657/2        .îí 23 .êò 95 22:25
 To   : Robert Lidgren
 Subj : new x-files episode!!
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
about the new episode with the phycic. exelent i loved the episode.
it was funny and thrilling and truely well written. i wonder what he
meant by telling scully she wasn't going to die???. and the ending kinda
confused me. was that him in the bag and how did he get there? did the
killer and he walk there and then kill him there and return to work?
i liked the line he gave the killer about why he does the thinks he
does. " because your a maniacal serial killer." or whatever he used. was
one of the shows i wished i recorded to watch over again. i also liked
the one about the carnival. the ending cracked me up. " must've been
something i ate." indeed.
--- GAPNet Enhanced
 * Origin: Gator's Junkyard * Anniston, AL * (205)235-2900 (1:3657/2.0)

Ä [16] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 91 of 100
 From : Patrick Long                        1:271/380       .îí 30 .êò 95 20:33
 To   : Brion Lienhart
 Subj : Q HEADING FOR VOYAGER
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12  94-0096

BL-=>So, what excuse are they going to use for Q not sending them back to
  -=>Federation  Space?

I dunno...

--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12
 * Origin: The Gondor BBS, member of Fidonet, the best RPG's!  (1:271/380.0)

Ä [16] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 92 of 100
 From : Todd Sullivan                       1:202/720.3     .îí 30 .êò 95 12:54
 To   : Brion Lienhart
 Subj : Re: Q HEADING FOR VOYAGER
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Whilst falling into the sun on 29 Oct 95, Brion Lienhart yelled to Patrick Long:

 BL> So, what excuse are they going to use for Q not sending them back to
 BL> Federation Space?

Q will be (according to what I've read) persecuting another Q.  There will be a
tribunal ,and Q will aparently have the tables turned on him by the Voyager
crew.  Assuming ( a good possibility, given the premise ) he loses, his resonse
will probably be along the lines of:

"I thought you would see it my way.  Since you didn't, you'll get no help from
me."

And he'll vanish, leaving them to go on.

Todd Sullivan

... "Ford" said Arthur, "you're turning into a penguin.  Stop it"

-*- ASTG 1.9

--- Spot 1.3a Unregistered
 * Origin: Todd's Spot in the Continuum (1:202/720.3)

Ä [16] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 93 of 100
 From : Brion Lienhart                      1:213/700.2     .òp 31 .êò 95 07:31
 To   : Todd Sullivan
 Subj : Re: Saab: The Invitro
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On Sat Oct 28, Todd Sullivan said to David Johnston:

 -TS>Can you imagine a robotic unit digging ditches without grinding to a
 -TS>halt from the dirt getting into its joints?  Neither can I.

Sure, it's called a Ditch Witch. You can rent them at any home rental center.


--- QM v1.31
 * Origin: Ministry of Peace - Carson City, NV (1:213/700.2)

Ä [16] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 94 of 100
 From : Starwolf                            1:163/214       .îí 30 .êò 95 19:21
 To   : Todd Sullivan
 Subj : Kubrik?
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
I, too, generally don't care much for tv films made from books.  There WERE a
few exceptions, though.  While I'm not much of a fan of King's works, his MISERY
seemed to have been turned into a fairly good tv movie.

And, since 2001 is my all-time favourite (theatre) film, it shouldn't be
surprising to note that, while it DID have a slightly different flavour than the
book, I enjoyed both about equally.  Very rare, that.


--- Maximus 2.01wb
 * Origin: Land of Ill Repute (1:163/214)

Ä [16] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 95 of 100
 From : Starwolf                            1:163/214       .îí 30 .êò 95 19:24
 To   : Michael Harper
 Subj : Kubrik?
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Odd, I distinctly recall hearing reports of his death.  Fortunately, as you say,
they were exaggerated.

THE STARS MY DESTINATION?  It'd be an OK film done right.  One film which
couldn't help be really strange were they to do it would be MACROSCOPE by Piers
Anthony(?)  It took me a few tries before I could really get into it far enough
to follow it.  Weird stuff.

But my, unofficial, media dream is for them to do a 'where are they now' movie
wrapping up the TIME TUNNEL storyline.  Yeah, a cheezy show, but I _did_ like it
and the design for the tunnel was impressive for a tv show.  Pity some of the
actors are dead.


--- Maximus 2.01wb
 * Origin: Land of Ill Repute (1:163/214)

Ä [16] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 96 of 100
 From : Myranya Werlemann                   2:283/1701      .òp 31 .êò 95 00:22
 To   : Judy Hayes
 Subj : Personal Favorites.
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 -=> Quoting Judy Hayes to Myranya Werlemann <=-

 JH> Oh?  Well, it's simple really.  I'm joining KAI (Klingon Armada
 JH> International) and that is my new Klingon name.  Since I, basically,
 JH> only post to Trek/SF echos I thought I'd go ahead and use it here.

 Well... Pleasure to meet you. I got a Klingon character, K'Ehlysa,
 but she's been a bit ignored, lately. On the nets I've been Kae
 Myranya, Bajoran, and Natima, Cardassian, at Cons I've been using my
 Trill character, Krystyne Vanix. And Ronald's got my head.

 Do you have a head yet? I love these conversations. I remember at OKC
 cons I used to attend, we'ld be sitting in a room somewhere and
 someone would come in, look around, and ask if anyone's seen his/her
 head, or something like, 'Did I leave my head in here, yesterday?'
 <G>

 JH> Well, there is a C in his first name, but he's certainly *not* a
 JH> newbie and he should know better.  They tell me that he does this type
 JH> of thing fairly  frequently though.

 I *think* I just saw a message from him in the DS9 echo. It involved
 a female dog and a monthly recurring hormone condition?
 I would say that's probably the last thing we see of him if the Mods
 are paying any attention. If they're not, that _is_ the same echo
 that's got the Promenade Role-playing, and I just ordered a new
 Compression Phaser Rifle to be delivered to my store. If you wanna
 borrow it, drop by the petshop -if you call ahead I'll lock the
 tribbles in the back room. <G>

 JH> I *definately* understand that problem.  'Though I only get to use the
 JH> 'puter when I can pry it away from the kids and hubby....good thing I'm
 JH> a fast typist.

 Right. <G> Maybe it would help if I were married or anything -at
 least there'ld be someone to pull the plug on this thing every once
 in a while. My kitty complains sometimes, but usually he's just
 laying close or he'll come sit on my lap while I'm typing.

 Well, I'm not gonna make this mezzy too long, haven't even downloaded
 today's mail yet (and I was caught up so nicely a few days ago :-( )

 Greetx,

 Myranya.

... "Then maybe you'll need to break a few noses. Or at least bend a few."
--- Blue Wave/RA v2.12 [NR]
 * Origin: EMICLAER BBS * +31 - 33 - 455 32 86 (2:283/1701)

Ä [16] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 97 of 100
 From : Frank Glover                        1:2613/477      .òp 31 .êò 95 20:17
 To   : Gerry Normandeau
 Subj : Re: Questions, but are t
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

GN>
GN>   GN> Hyperspace is not the creation of a single author. It is a
GN>   GN>sientific
GN>   GN>theory dating back to I don't know when.
GN>
GN>   NS> It is a science fiction convention; it is not scientific theory.
GN>
GN>   Strange I could have sworn it was a theory? Oh well };>
GN>

   Actually, it was a purely mathematical idea (specifically geometry and
topology) before SF, but lent itself well to FTL `jump' notions. It may or may
not have anything to do with the `real world.'

   (But see `Indistinguishable From Magic' and other non-fiction works of Dr.
Robert L. Forward.)

   Frank


--- QuickBBS 2.80 GoldBase (Zeta-1)
 * Origin: The Matrix Data Bank BBS, Rochester, Ny (1:2613/477)

Ä [16] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 98 of 100
 From : Frank Glover                        1:2613/477      .òp 31 .êò 95 20:28
 To   : Brion Lienhart
 Subj : Re: Q HEADING FOR VOYAGER
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

BL>  So, what excuse are they going to use for Q not sending them back to
BL>  Federation Space?

   They really need one? Considering established Q behavior, leaving them in the
Gamma Quadrant's hardly out of character. (Remember Q sending the Enterprise-D
just two years travel out of Federation known space is how the troubles with the
Borg began....)

   Frank


--- QuickBBS 2.80 GoldBase (Zeta-1)
 * Origin: The Matrix Data Bank BBS, Rochester, Ny (1:2613/477)

Ä [16] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 99 of 100
 From : Gary Warren                         1:382/92        .òp 31 .êò 95 15:14
 To   : All
 Subj : Chronology needed for KOLCHAK:  THE NIGHT STALKER!
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: IMAIL-386 1.70+ PK32
 * Crossposted from: Austin Local: Movies and Televison

I'm watching and taping eps of KOLCHAK:  THE NIGHT STALKER which the
Sci-Fi Channel is running for its two-day "Kolchak Marathon."  It occurs
to me that I've read some posts in a Fido echo or two saying there may be
a sequel planned to the series, one in which Kolchak (played in the
original series and TV movies by Darren McGavin) meets Mulder and
Sculley from the X-FILES.  Is this just wishful thinking on some fans'
hearts, or is this (or any type of sequel) planned?

Also, I'm aware of the two ABC TV movies (one of which WAS titled THE
NIGHT STALKER) which preceeded the series.  But the current Marathon is
airing two OTHER such movies which either ALSO came before the series or
were two-parter episodes.  Is there anyone who knows the whole chronology
of the series and movies, starting from the first ABC late-night film THE
NIGHT STALKER (1973, I think)??


Thanks,


Gary L. Warren


... Drop your carrier ... we have you surrounded!
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.20 [NR]
 * Origin:  Rendezvous!! 28.8_VFC Bastrop, Tx [512-303-1324] (1:382/92)

Ä [16] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 100 of 100
 From : Jim Cushing                         1:123/569       .pä 01 Hîÿ 95 11:27
 To   : Michael Harper
 Subj : Re: KUBRICK
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE 1.11+

 MH> My dislike of Kubrick stems from his attitude toward actors and
 MH> screenwriters, especially toward the latter. At one time I felt
 MH> somewhat the way you do, but the hatchet job he did on "The Shining"
 MH> soured me on him. King may be a hack, but at least he's honest about
 MH> it; Kubrick thinks he's an artiste', and he's not even as good as
 MH> King. Without the talents of writers, cinematographers, sfx techs and,
 MH> yes, actors, Kubrick wouldn't even be the halfass hack excuse for a
 MH> director that he is. The man's a hasbeen; file him away with Cimino,
 MH> De Palma and all the other ex-champions. If I want to see the work of
 MH> a master, I'll watch a film by Fred Zinnemann or John Huston. At least
 MH> they're honest workmen who try to entertain you.

 Michael you stated your dislike of Kubrick stems from his attitude towards
 actors and screenwriters. What has he done to those actors and screewriters?
 You mentioned one movie "The Shining" and one writer Stephen King! If you
 think he is a halfass hack excuse for a director then you haven't watched
 many of his movies.

 Jim



... Captain, there be mail here!
--- Blue Wave/RA v2.12 [NR]
 * Origin: 9 out of 5 Schizos prefer Lunatic Fringe! 382-LUST (1:123/569)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 1 of 300
 From : Bianca Wesslak                      1:132/152       .pä 01 Hîÿ 95 23:33
 To   : Steven Wesen
 Subj : Re: Red Dwarf
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
From a woman with an overactive imagination.

 SW> @MSGID: 1:271/236 308772A1
 SW> Signals catalog which is run by PBS they have 1-5 but the charge quite
 SW> a

bit. There is a place in Richmond VA called Relm of fantasy which

 SW> offers 1-6 and

the Blooper reels (avoid) and the American Pilot.

 SW> Steve.

Thanks do you know how I could get in touch with them?  Why should I avoid the
blooper reels?
thanks a bunch.


... Living Dead Dating Service: "Let us dig up somebody special."
--- Blue Wave v2.12 [NR]
 * Origin: The Cereal Port BBS (OS/2) Rindge,NH 603-899-3335 (1:132/152)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 2 of 300
 From : Bianca Wesslak                      1:132/152       .pä 01 Hîÿ 95 23:37
 To   : David Little
 Subj : Red Dwarf / Time travel
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
From a woman with an overactive imagination.

 DL> @MSGID: 1:106/7315.0 308f9fc4
 DL> -=<( Darren Lovatt used the Jedi Mind Trick on me! )>=-
 DL> No more than Star Trek has used time travel. I was upset when
 DL> Lister didn't go ack and marry Kachanski<sp.>!

I don't know whouldn't that have caused the same problems as the smeghead
when he populated a planet that he was stuck on for five hundred years.  I
believe this was in series six.


... C:\DOS;\SYSTEM;\UTILITIES;\DOCS;\HELP;\WHERE;\THE;\HECK;\AM_I
--- Blue Wave v2.12 [NR]
 * Origin: The Cereal Port BBS (OS/2) Rindge,NH 603-899-3335 (1:132/152)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 3 of 300
 From : Kay Shapero                         1:102/524       .pä 01 Hîÿ 95 11:39
 To   : Beverley Cote
 Subj : Vir Cotto
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Oct 30 15:06>, Beverley Cote (1:134/32.9) wrote to The Raven:

 BC>I think it was Vir who got the message through, from the families
 BC>on the Narn homeworld, which allowed G'Kar to keep his leadership.

Sheridan gave that task to the rangers; exactly who did what is left unclear.
If it WAS Vir, we haven't been told yet.  And I doubt it - but I think in future
he's going to get more involved on his own.  I'd say that scene in the elevator
will have results.

--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 4 of 300
 From : Tony Trujillo                       1:280/9         .pä 01 Hîÿ 95 06:47
 To   : Anne Hardcastle
 Subj : Re: Bat villains
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE 1.11+

 AH> Yea, the Joker rocks on TAS.  I LOVE the show, though I think some of
 AH> the newer episodes are not as dark.  Have you ever noticed that it is
 AH> almost never daytime (or if it is it is not sunny and blue skies)?

I guess villains only like to do their evil deeds under the
cloak of night...or at least partly cloudy skies! :^)

Speaking of "dark", I preferred the stories of the earlier
episodes because they did seem to have a very dark and
"gritty" feel to them. I guess they figured they better
lighten up (violence) the show since it was basically a
children's show after all! :^)

 AH> I'm also am fond of Robin's cocky attitude.  How can you not
 AH> love somebody who rides around in the Batmobile with his feet
 AH> up on the dashboard?

To be totally honest with you I haven't seen much of the
show since it was retitled THE ADVENTURES OF BATMAN AND
ROBIN. However, I do recall a scene where a villain told
Robin something to the effect of, "Should you be asleep,
young boy"...to which Robin replied, "Come over here and
we'll see who goes beddy-bye!" :^)


... "I am only an egg."
--- Via Silver Xpress V4.02B03 SW01177
 * Origin: South of the River - Overland Park KS - (913)642-7907 V.* (1:280/9)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 5 of 300
 From : Tony Trujillo                       1:280/9         .pä 01 Hîÿ 95 11:37
 To   : Todd Sullivan
 Subj : Re: Bat villains
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE 1.11+

 TS> Hmmm.  Are you aware that Mark Hamill (Yes, Luke) is the Joker's voice?
 TS>  I about freaked when they showed a "Making of" special, and showing
 TS>  him as he did the voice recording.  Wooo! Did he look manic.

I didn't realize it was Mark until I saw him in that same
special...and you're right...he did look quite freaky when
he was doing the voice over for The Joker. Maybe the lad has
finally gone over to the "dark side"! :^)

Speaking of STAR WARS, am I the only one who feels that
George isn't going to make good on his statement about
making a new set of movies by the end of this century?


... >> CTHULHU: YOU HAVE A FIEND IN THE UNDERWORLD BUSINESS <<

--- Via Silver Xpress V4.02B03 SW01177
 * Origin: South of the River - Overland Park KS - (913)642-7907 V.* (1:280/9)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 6 of 300
 From : Tony Trujillo                       1:280/9         .åò 02 Hîÿ 95 02:02
 To   : Beverley Cote
 Subj : Re: Bat villains
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE 1.11+

 KS>> BTW Its nice to see you around the net again!  Are you going to
 KS>> ConTraception?
 TT>> I don't know if I'd really feel comfortable at a con with
 TT>> a name like that! :^)
 BC> It would be a lot more comfortable that one called ConCeption! :)

Bwahaha! :^)

Actually, I hear things can really get wild at
CONTRACEPTION...something about roaming bands of
cross dressers at the cabaret really makes me wonder
if I really want to attend this con! :^)


... me anomaly. "Bother!" said Pooh, as his starship encountered a time an
--- Via Silver Xpress V4.02B03 SW01177
 * Origin: South of the River - Overland Park KS - (913)642-7907 V.* (1:280/9)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 7 of 300
 From : Todd Sullivan                       1:202/720.3     .pä 01 Hîÿ 95 15:15
 To   : Brion Lienhart
 Subj : Saab: The Invitro
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Whilst falling into the sun on 31 Oct 95, Brion Lienhart yelled to me:

 BL> On Sat Oct 28, Todd Sullivan said to David Johnston:
 -TS>> Can you imagine a robotic unit digging ditches without grinding to a
 -TS>> halt from the dirt getting into its joints?  Neither can I.

 BL> Sure, it's called a Ditch Witch. You can rent them at any home rental
 BL> center.

Yeah, I know; electrical contractors use 'em too.

What I meant was a true robotic, humanoid form that wouldn't break down as
opposed to the 'tanks'.

Todd Sullivan

... "I wrote a few children's books...not on purpose." -S. Wright

-*- ASTG 1.9

--- Spot 1.3a Unregistered
 * Origin: Todd's Spot in the Continuum (1:202/720.3)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 8 of 300
 From : Todd Sullivan                       1:202/720.3     .pä 01 Hîÿ 95 15:17
 To   : Starwolf
 Subj : Kubrik?
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Whilst falling into the sun on 30 Oct 95, Starwolf yelled to me:

 S> I, too, generally don't care much for tv films made from books.  There
 S> WERE a few exceptions, though.  While I'm not much of a fan of King's
 S> works, his MISERY seemed to have been turned into a fairly good tv
 S> movie.

 S> And, since 2001 is my all-time favourite (theatre) film, it shouldn't be
 S> surprising to note that, while it DID have a slightly different flavour
 S> than the book, I enjoyed both about equally.  Very rare, that.

Not surprising.  The different "flavor" is due to the fact that you simply
*can't* take everything from the book and put it into a movie.  Some things are
simply lost, or have to go because they're not "essential" to the story,
filmically speaking ( hmmm...how would that go?).

Todd Sullivan

... "Where are we?" --Arthur  "Er... somewhere green." --Ford

-*- ASTG 1.9

--- Spot 1.3a Unregistered
 * Origin: Todd's Spot in the Continuum (1:202/720.3)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 9 of 300
 From : ROBERT LIDGREN                      1:134/10        .pä 01 Hîÿ 95 23:34
 To   : TODD SULLIVAN
 Subj : FAN CLUB GODIES/X-FILES!!
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
-> Whilst falling into the sun on 18 Oct 95, Nicolai Shapero yelled to
-> ROBERT LIDGREN:
->
-> NS> Posts to individuals and posts to ALL go to the same place.  You
-> need NS> not post two otherwise identical messages to this conference
-> -- it just NS> increases the traffic...it does not increase the
-> signal level.
-> Probably another neophyte with an unhelpful sysop, Nicolai.  Take it
-> easy.
-> Todd Sullivan

Hi Todd!

I haven't been on here for some time and when I did a search all I found
was your "reference" to some message I was sent.  I never received that
message and I have not read it.  When I looked for it the thing cannot
be accessed.  I guess there is a "limit" to the amount of SFFAN
meassages kept here.  Oh well, I get the "gist" of the message.

At any rate, thanks for the comment you sent to the moderator.  I
certainly did not mean anything "evil" by it.  I just assumed some
people search for their PERSONAL MESSAGES AND those addressed to "ALL."
That's why I posted it twice.  No, I'm certainly not a
neophyte.  Evidently I made an error re: "The Rules."
Fair enough.  I just WISH I HAD BEEN SENT THE MESSAGE.  Oh well, water
off a duck's back...

I have a new personal web page up and running.

It contains my listing of neat X-Files locations.  Give it a whirl!

My Web Page address is:  http://www2.logicnet.com/robert.lidgren

Cheers and all the best

and THANKS!

-Rob
Robert Lidgren
robert.lidgren@bbs.logicnet.com
--- PCBoard 15.2
 * Origin: 32 lines 40 Gig BBS, Realtime InterNet SLIP (403)299-9900 (1:134/10)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 10 of 300
 From : John Richard                        1:128/148       .åò 02 Hîÿ 95 16:40
 To   : Daniel Marr
 Subj : Re: Star Wars I
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: FastEcho 1.45 7525
Daniel Marr is giving a speech on Star Wars I again

 DM> Has anyone heard how George Lucas is doing on Star Wars episode
 DM> I?

 Well, I heard he finally succed on adding the Jabba the Hutt shots into
 the first movie. Beyond that, I have no idea.

 DM> I know that he was going to start work on it, and last I heard, it
 DM> was suposed to be out in 1997.  I have been seeing all sorts of adds
 DM> for the re-released movies, and there are Star Wars toys out again.  It
 DM> seems like they are getting us prepared for the release of a new one.

 It is still schuduled for 97. BTW the Re-Released movies are worth the
 money, I was blown away by the sound quality and the crispness of the
 film<that little guy riding the speeder bike makes it all worth while>.






... "Someone's giving birth in the next tent." -- Tom Servo
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12
--- SuperQWK 1.17-3 (Reg)
 * Origin: THE GOBLIN'S REACH BBS/CO.SPRINGS CO./(719)597-7877 (1:128/148)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 11 of 300
 From : Kevin Larson                        1:350/33        .åò 02 Hîÿ 95 19:12
 To   : Mark Jones
 Subj : War!
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

-=>On 10-22-95 Mark Jones wrote this to Gerry Normandeau:<=-

MJ>Attacking someone with the intent to gain thereby is a perfectly
MJ>rational act.  Attacking someone for no good reason may be
MJ>irrational--but very few wars are started for no good reason.  The
MJ>combatants *always* have reasons.


Ya Its called *GREAD* !!



                                        *Knight*

___
 * CMPQwk #1.42 * UNREGISTERED EVALUATION COPY

--- Maximus 2.02
 * Origin: The PYRAMID bbs (1:350/33)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 12 of 300
 From : Gerry Normandeau                    1:163/430       .åò 02 Hîÿ 95 03:45
 To   : Brion Lienhart
 Subj : Re: Personal Favorites
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

-=> On 10-29-95  19:37 Brion Lienhart ran Gerry Normandeau out of town because
-=> of Re: Personal Favorites!!! <=-

 BL> Guess what, you're really wrong. 8-(;-)
 BL> It was published by Chaosium in the early 80s. It was one
 BL> of their Basic Roleplaying System games, and a lot of
 BL> people didn't like it much.

AAARRRRRGGGG!! I stand corrected! Loads of thanks! };> I have never
played the game myself, but I realy like the idea. How was it compared
to the books?

___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

--- Maximus 2.01wb
 * Origin: Watership Down BBS, Kanata , ON (1:163/430)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 13 of 300
 From : Karmin St.jean                      1:321/309       .ÿò 27 .êò 95 21:08
 To   : Brion Lienhart
 Subj : Q HEADING FOR VOYAGER
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
===========================================================================
 BBS: Final Approach BBS
Date: 10-29-95 (19:37)             Number: 14171
From: BRION LIENHART               Refer#: 5987
  To: PATRICK LONG                  Recvd: NO
Subj: Q HEADING FOR VOYAGER          Conf: (825) SFFAN
---------------------------------------------------------------------------

BL>So, what excuse are they going to use for Q not sending them back to Federat
BL>Space?

Probably the oldest excuse in the book. Q can see into the future and
knows that the Voyager crew has much good to do in the Delta Quadrant.
However, he'll tell them that he doesn't think they're worth the bother
and only the book version of the story will let the fans know the truth.

Q is like an older brother, he acts like a jerk and likes to tease and
torment, but its all done out of affection (mind you, he could kill any
of his playmates with a thought and up to "Deja Q" he had no experience
with pain so he had no way of knowing what it was he was inflicting on
people. And we're no better. How many times have we laughed at someone
being bitten by a bird on America's Funniest Home Videos?

 * SLMR 2.1a * Anything you say will be misquoted & used against you.

--- FLAME v1.1
 * Origin: Final Approach BBS - Spfld, MA (413)783-5853 (1:321/309)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 14 of 300
 From : Shawn Merrow                        1:3407/14       .åò 09 Hîÿ 95 14:03
 To   : Anthony Van Deyl
 Subj : Quickening effects
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

-> is it explained why the character is DUNCAN macleod and not CONNER?
-> anmd why is duncan the highlander, i thought conner was...

Duncan Macleod is related to Conner Macleod. The TV series is seperate
from the movies.

--- QScan/PCB v1.16b / 01-0024
 * Origin:  (1:3407/14)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 15 of 300
 From : Frank Swarbrick                     1:104/825       .pä 08 Hîÿ 95 07:35
 To   : All
 Subj : SAAB
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12  92-0022
I just now watched this last Sunday's episode of Space: Above and
Beyond, "Eyes."  I've watched all the previous episodes and really
haven't been very impressed.  This was really baffling, especially
concidering the executive producers are Glen Morgan and James Wong,
the writers of many of the best episodes of The X-Files.

Anyway, I must say that this episode was *very* good.  For one thing,
it didn't really focus that much on the stars of the show.  Which is
not to say that they weren't an intregal part of the show, just that
they weren't the sole focus.  The show just seemed "bigger."

It was also a major "conspiracy" type episode.  It reminded me a lot
of The X-Files as well as Babylon 5, both of which are big on
conspiracy stuff.  In fact, parts of it were quite similar to the like
named episode of Babylon 5.  Probably just coincidence, but still
interesting.

One major thing I hadn't liked up to this point was that it was much
too violent.  Of course, it is supposed to be a war show, but I just
didn't like it.  This episode had some gunplay still, but not just
people with machine guns blowing up everyone in sight.

Also had some good twists and turns.

And to think, I was concidering stopping watching the show before
seeing this episode.  I'll give it another chance, and some of you
might want to do the same.  Of course, next week's looks to be back to
the same ol' same ol', but who knows.

        Frank

... Ignorance and prejudice - and fear - walk hand in hand.
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12
 * Origin: The Bailey Information Exchange BBS, 28.8k v.fc  (1:104/825.0)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 16 of 300
 From : Frank Glover                        1:2613/477      .åò 09 Hîÿ 95 22:00
 To   : Steven Wesen
 Subj : Re: Star Wars I
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

SW>  They are still competion in the fact that some people can afford to
SW>  go to one
SW>  dollar movie a week and some will go for the genre they like most.
SW>
SW>  Money is the root to all high budget special effect movies an example
SW>  Star Trek the Motion Picture.(I rest my case)
SW>
SW>  Star Wars may not have seriously attacked the TV screen but they can
SW>  not  afford for a STNG movie to go out at the same time as the next
SW>  Star Wars film
SW>  came out.

   I don't know. Stargate and Star Trek Generations did okay at about the same
time. Such movies can expect to be shownfor several months. (Though I must admit
I only went to see the latter...)

   On the other hand, I saw Star Trek: The Motion Picture and The Black Hole in
the same weekend, way back then.

   Frank


--- QuickBBS 2.80 GoldBase (Zeta-1)
 * Origin: The Matrix Data Bank BBS, Rochester, Ny (1:2613/477)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 17 of 300
 From : Frank Glover                        1:2613/477      .åò 09 Hîÿ 95 22:01
 To   : Mark Holtz
 Subj : Re: Space Rangers
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

MH>  Claudia Christian had a guest role in it?

   She's also in a `Columbo' TV-movie on ABC as I write this....

   Frank


--- QuickBBS 2.80 GoldBase (Zeta-1)
 * Origin: The Matrix Data Bank BBS, Rochester, Ny (1:2613/477)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 18 of 300
 From : Chris Ogniben                       1:2604/568      .åò 09 Hîÿ 95 10:51
 To   : David Johnston
 Subj : Re: Questions, But Are T
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

   I don't find it possible that matter anti-matter reactor would
become a reality.. And, that our true future for space exploration
would be powered by such reactors.. I do see nuclear reactors to be the
main power for eletricity in space ships.  And, large tanks of fuel to
burn for the engines.


--- WM v3.11/93-0947
 * Origin: Waterside BBS - NJ - (201) 641-5375 28.8k  (1:2604/568)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 19 of 300
 From : Chris Ogniben                       1:2604/568      .åò 09 Hîÿ 95 10:53
 To   : David Johnston
 Subj : Q Heading For Voyager
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

   I don't think Q is going to show up at all in star trek.. I mean,
there is no reason for him to be there.  He seen all ready that area of
space.. Unless he didn't explore it.. I bet he is going to just test
the crew of voyager, than to bring them home.. Like, you gotta do this
and this and this, then i shall decide if i can bring you home.  But, i
have a funny feeling that in the next new episode of voyager i seen.
That since Voyager is going to meet up with another array like the care
takers.. There might be a chance, that such an array would be able to
send them back.


--- WM v3.11/93-0947
 * Origin: Waterside BBS - NJ - (201) 641-5375 28.8k  (1:2604/568)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 20 of 300
 From : Chris Ogniben                       1:2604/568      .åò 09 Hîÿ 95 10:55
 To   : David Reffitt
 Subj : Re: Vir Cotto
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

  No way, i mean, Vir has made a oath of some sort.. No matter what
happens, he will not kill Londo.. I mean, i don't see it in any way
that Vir would be on G'Kar's side.  But, did you see the episode where
Kosh came out of his body.. And everyone else seen what he looks like,
with a face, but, Londo didn't see anything.. Pretty soon Londo will
have suffered enough to kill himself.. I mean, he is pretty much alone
himself, and really see's how bad he is, working with the shadows.. So,
sooner or later Londo could get assinated by a Narin, or just fall into
a bliss of depression and take his own life.


--- WM v3.11/93-0947
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Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 21 of 300
 From : Chris Ogniben                       1:2604/568      .åò 09 Hîÿ 95 10:56
 To   : Brion Lienhart
 Subj : Re: Saab: The Invitro
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

   Who said that robots would be throwing dirt around, to clam up it's
joints.. And who said that the robot would be designed to have vital
joints exsposed and not protected by the hard enviroment.


--- WM v3.11/93-0947
 * Origin: Waterside BBS - NJ - (201) 641-5375 28.8k  (1:2604/568)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 22 of 300
 From : Chris Ogniben                       1:2604/568      .åò 09 Hîÿ 95 10:57
 To   : Gary Warren
 Subj : Chronology needed for KOL
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

  I would just like to know what this Knight Stalker was about.. Sure
doesn't seem to be a sci fi show that i seen in my days.  Which are
mostly the 70s 80s and 90s.


--- WM v3.11/93-0947
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Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 23 of 300
 From : Chris Ogniben                       1:2604/568      .åò 09 Hîÿ 95 10:59
 To   : Frank Glover
 Subj : Re: Questions, but are t
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

  Most things that are science fiction.. Don't become part of the new
world.. Since, they are ideas way beyond human intelligence, to build
such wonders.. I think, in the future real space.. That most ships
would be powered by standard fuel and burning engines.  And nuclear
reactor's for power.. And would be in control of the military.  So, you
probably need to train and be in the military to go out in space.


--- WM v3.11/93-0947
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Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 24 of 300
 From : Chris Ogniben                       1:2604/568      .åò 09 Hîÿ 95 11:01
 To   : Frank Glover
 Subj : Re: Q HEADING FOR VOYAGER
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

  I still doubt that Q would show up.. I mean, if he does, it would be
very complicated.. Since, he has the ability to bring voyager back..
With the flip of fingers.. And, he won't do it because of his ego.. I
just don't see the new Q, the Q that learned a lot during the years he
fiddled with the enterprise d crew.  To be someone that would do the
same again with voyager, which is in a desperate situation to go home.


--- WM v3.11/93-0947
 * Origin: Waterside BBS - NJ - (201) 641-5375 28.8k  (1:2604/568)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 25 of 300
 From : Chris Ogniben                       1:2604/568      .åò 09 Hîÿ 95 11:02
 To   : Mason Bliss
 Subj : Nowhere Man - Bellamy
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

  I havn't seen NowWhere Man.. But, i heared from friends that this
series is a joke.. and sucks..  And i don't beleive another echo to put
no where man fans into it.. Is a good idea.. Since, we need to know
exactly how many people like this series.. Now, when you speak of
STRANGE LUCK.. That is a different story.. Since, i watched that, and
that series is very successful and great.


--- WM v3.11/93-0947
 * Origin: Waterside BBS - NJ - (201) 641-5375 28.8k  (1:2604/568)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 26 of 300
 From : Chris Ogniben                       1:2604/568      .åò 09 Hîÿ 95 11:04
 To   : Jon Helis
 Subj : Re: The Long Twilight Sp
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

  You people don't remember the purpose that Babylon 4 was taken, to be
used for?  It was taken by futurstic beings, of Delenn and Sinclair to
fight a future war.  And Babylon 4 is a station base, or military base
of operations to fight this war.


--- WM v3.11/93-0947
 * Origin: Waterside BBS - NJ - (201) 641-5375 28.8k  (1:2604/568)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 27 of 300
 From : Chris Ogniben                       1:2604/568      .åò 09 Hîÿ 95 11:06
 To   : Jon Helis
 Subj : Re: Vir Cotto
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

   There i no doubt, that Vir could either help G'Kar or just stay
loyal to Londo.  But, Londo doesn't owe the Shadow's anything.. Since
the Shadow's are using Londo to do what they want.. And that is to
destroy the rest of the lives of many other races.  And, Londo is just
making it easier for them to do this, without showing themselves to all
that they exist.


--- WM v3.11/93-0947
 * Origin: Waterside BBS - NJ - (201) 641-5375 28.8k  (1:2604/568)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 28 of 300
 From : Steven Wesen                        1:271/236       .ÿò 10 Hîÿ 95 08:01
 To   : Greg McNeil
 Subj : Re: sex in sf!
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE 1.11+
There is good Science Fiction and there are the videos that they are renting .
Why is it so hard for people to understand that most cheap Science Fiction shows
are trying to make a buck to make another shlock film in either horror or
Science Fiction.

You have a choice so avoid those films and rent Star Wars or Star Trek and avoid
the shlock but don't expect the market to revolve around the prudish.

--- GEcho 1.11+
 * Origin: Time Machine Node 2, Newport News, VA 595-9383 (1:271/236)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 29 of 300
 From : Frank Swarbrick                     1:104/825       .åò 09 Hîÿ 95 10:05
 To   : Ritchie Funk
 Subj : Nowhere Man
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12  92-0022
On 11-07-95  11:12 Ritchie Funk, the thief who couldn't sleep, said:

 RF> Are there any Nowhere Man fans out there? This is an awesome show. I
 RF> strongly hope this show does not get cancelled. Does any one have a
 RF> list of episode titles?

I'm a fan.  Haven't missed an episode yet, and I'm also recording
them.  My favorite episode is "Something About Her," the one where
Veil was put in a virtual reality type thing and lived another life.

Here's a list of episode titles:

NOWHERE MAN
~~~~~~~~~~~
Ep#.    Air Date    Episode Title
====  ============  ================================
  1.  Aug 28, 1995  "Absolute Zero"  [90 minutes]
  2.  Sep  4, 1995  "Turnabout"
  3.  Sep 11, 1995  "The Incredible Derek"
  4.  Sep 18, 1995  "Something About Her"
  5.  Sep 25, 1995  "Paradise On Your Doorstep"
  6.  Oct  9, 1995  "The Spider Webb"
  7.  Oct 23, 1995  "A Rough Whimper of Insanity"
  8.  Oct 30, 1995  "The Alpha Spike"
  9.  Nov  6, 1995  "You Really Got a Hold Me"

        Frank

... We've got to get in to get out..
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12
 * Origin: The Bailey Information Exchange BBS, 28.8k v.fc  (1:104/825.0)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 30 of 300
 From : Myra I Fox                          1:123/10        .ÿò 10 Hîÿ 95 09:59
 To   : Piotr W. Cholewa
 Subj : Tom Holt
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

-=>Quoting Piotr W. Cholewa to Myra I Fox<=-

 PWC> IMHO one of Discworld novels' advantages is that they are
 PWC> NOT a series. They are simply stories set up in the same world
 PWC> (Disc...). In the same way all mainstream literature is set up in the
 PWC> same world, meaning ours. bye

I am glad you said that... at one time I took a lot of teasing because
of the order I read the Disc world books <g>.  I just read them as I
could find them.  I have not read "Lords and Ladies" yet but I saw it
in a bookstore last weekend.  Maybe next payday I can pick it up.

I think that "Guards! Guards!" was one of my favorites for some
reason... do you have one you especially liked?



... Paint it Octarine: the color of magic.
--- RA/FD/FMail
 * Origin: The Electric Fox - Memphis,TN, U.S.A.  1-901-327-1008 (1:123/10)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 31 of 300
 From : Judy Hayes                          1:154/40        .ÿò 10 Hîÿ 95 18:33
 To   : Sean Anderson
 Subj : Re: Forever Knight
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

->Quoshara reminising about being SWAN, heard Sean say:

 SA> I just saw the premier of a new season of "Forever Knight" on
 SA> CKTV.  Half the supporting cast is gone.  I couldn't believe it.
 SA> Well, no mater what, it is a great show!!!

Yeah, I was kind of dissappointed that Skancke left but I'm really starting
to like the new supporting cast....especially the new vampires.

      --Quoshara


... Rats!  I lost all my vampire taglines when BlueWave went down.
---
 * Origin: Anonymous BBS -=- Non plus Ultra -=- 414-251-2580 (1:154/40)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 32 of 300
 From : Dean Sweatman                       1:396/89        .óá 11 Hîÿ 95 08:12
 To   : Sam James
 Subj : Coast-Con jr discussion
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
This is a re-posting of lost mail due to a server/hub being down
here in the New Orleans area.  If the original does finally pop
up out of the log-jam some time in the future please forgive
this dupe.

Ä Area: F_SFFAN ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
  Msg#: 1266                                         Date: 11-09-95  18:55
  From: Dean Sweatman                                Read: Yes    Replied: No
    To: Sam James                                    Mark:
  Subj: Coast Con Jr
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
First Thanks to Sam James for franking John's comments into this
fourm.  When we have access to the con-com types it is easier to
smooth over the problems that occur even at the best run
conventions and events.

 > From : SAM JAMES
 > To   : DEAN SWEATMAN
 > Subj : Re: Coast Con jr
 > Numb : 427 of 429                            Date      : 11/08/95 12:15am
 > Read : 11/09/95 11:45am                      Reference : NONE
 > Conf : 322 - S_F_FANDOM_FIDO                 Private   : NO

 > Message from John Kinberg.

 > I have been attending and working with conventions since 1983. As a
 > past and present member of the Coast Con committe, I'd like to say
 > that your opinion is valued.

I was active in New Orleans Fandom for a number of years between
1965 and 1975 and have re-entered a semi-active mode since 1993.
So I am not some NEO still wet behind the ears, Just an old
Phart stuck in the '60s, one might say <g>, who has a growl much
worse than his bite.

 > There were some problems with Junior this
 > year, but on the whole, everyone seemed to have a good time.

A rather broad statment there son, care to think about this a
sec.  There are at least 2 users on Fido that have complained
that the con did not live up to expectations & was over priced.
A small percentage to be sure, but vocal.

 > I also showed up around noon Saturday expecting to do setup,
 > and get a few things prepped before launching the convention.
 > I also was surprised to find that the convention began that
 > morning.

Well If the con-com can't even get it straight where does that
leave us?  Information needs to be gotten out to the Fen that you
expect to pay your expenses.  When there is a failier of this
type it does not bode well with those on the outside looking in.

 > Advertising was poor. I am responsible for that. Advertising
 > was not allotted much money, and through pure luck, I was able
 > to swing a deal with a local radio station that got us some
 > extra publicity. Any fault with advertising is PURELY
 > MY FAULT!

It is good to see that someone is willing to belly up to the bar
and admit to the problems of a convention, it earns you a bit
more respect in my book at least.

Advertising doesn't always have to cost a lot of money.  Here
on the Fido you could have run a string of messages on the
convention that would have brought about an awareness to the
local users that read this echo on a daily basis.  The SF lit
echo and Filk Echo could be used to gain further awarness and
distribute information about the convention at very little cost
to the con-com.  Outside of Fido there are the Inter-net SF
fourms/News groups, Web pages and other resources.  In the New
Orleans Region there is the Fandom Is A way Of Life Networked
Discussion Sub (Available on the Gulf Coast From Atrocity
Exhibition BBS (601-533-6064).  Most of these resources are
ignored by the regional conventions and it is a pity as they
could promote con awarness and goodwill before, during and after
the event.  The really bad thing about using them is that you
have to USE THEM.  Get yourself someone that knows HOW to use all
the nets on the con-com, you might get much more information out
to the fen than you ever dreamed possible.

 > The hospitallity room, on the other hand I take note with. It was
 > sponsored by a new Fan Club in the area called "Creative Destruction."
 > We, as a club put up $150.00 of our own money for food. Coast Con put
 > up $100.00 for drinks. Sure, we didn't come close to Cresent City Con,
 > but we as a club also didn't have several hundred dollars to put behind
 > the effort. My roomate, and founder of Creative Destruction, John
 > Kelly, put HIS OWN money out of his final paycheck before being laid off
 > from work to make this thing work, and we are sorry that people were not
 > satisfied with the results.

I did not mean to disparage the efforts of "CD" and was only
commenting on the room in general compared to other conventions
in the region.  Hospitallity is the most Thankless job at a con
and is singled out unfairly many times (as might have been the
case here as I was unaware that the Club rather than the con was
running the room).  From what I saw it was run as well an most
of the other suites I had been to this past year with a lot less
trouble. (you didn't have the Con-Com person in charge of the
room quit within hours of the opening of the con as happened at
both the NOSFFF and CCC here in New Orleans this summer)

 > We had hoped to find more people at the
 > convention interested in participating IN A LOCAL SCI FI BASED FAN
 > CLUB. Unfortunately, little intertest was found. Such a shame since fan
 > clubs are the backbone of fandom. It seems that all anybody wants to do
 > anymore is game and complain. I'm not getting on to you about this.
 > Your comments are welcomed. It's just that nobody want's to get involved
 > in putting these cons on, and doing things through the year. Just at
 > con time.

Amen and Amen.  Truth be told.  I have experenced the same thing
here in the New Orleans area.  The Social foundation of Fandom
had cracked and there are very few people willing try to do
anything to repair the damage.  When a fan social is announced
it is ignored and goes unsupported to the extent that many of
the few willing to try to do something wash their hands of
Fandom and seek out the mundane side of life.  A pity but it was
rather strongly shown to me that the mundanes can be much more
fannish at times than the heartiest of the tru-fen during Coast
Con jr.

 > Coast Con Jr was origionally intended to be a reason for the
 > membership to come to a midyear general membership meeting. Before Jr,
 > the largest one I attended since '83 had about 10 people in attendance
 > other than the con committee. Things have not changed very much, this
 > committe meeting we had at JR had about 8-10 people there who were not
 > committe.

This is information to me.  It wasn't born out by the
advertising nor was it made clear that the Coast-Con General
Membership meeting was important.  Being stuck at the end of the
con as it was at Coast Con 18 in April and again at jr is not
the place to put a featured event.  We can discuss this later in
more detail and touch on some other programing foo-pahs as well.

 > COMPLAIN, SCREAM, HOLLER, RANT, RAVE, ECT, but please take
 > the time to realize that the only way for things to improve with Coast
 > Con or any con is or the members to get involved throughout the year. We
 > love the volunteers we get at con time. But you have to realize that
 > we do this 12 months out of the year with little compensation (ie:
 > repayment for stamps and phone charges). It really stinks thinking what
 > kind of mileage I've put on my car in the past 6 months in dealing with
 > Coast Con activities. BUT IT'S WORTH EVERY CENT!!!!!! It thrills me to
 > no end to hear somebody say that despite a few complaints they got a
 > charge out of one or two things we worked to bring them.

Hey THAT is what Fandom is all about, The pink fuzzies from the
shared joys, and yes it is worth all the work and efforts that
you expend.

 > What this all boils down to is this: Complaints we welcome. Advice we
 > really appreciate. Help we LOVE! But indifference, or no input upsets
 > all of those of us that work real hard to bring you a convention.

Ain't that the truth.  The problem is that few feel that their
input is welcomed by the Con-coms and have given up on finding
ways that they can express themselves.  Use of The FIAWOL Sub
here in New Orleans is mostly by those few that have yet to have
gotten into the active side of Fandom other than attending a
convention or two from time to time and don't know the other
joys that the purely social side of fandom can foster.  If you
are with-in the free call area of Atrocity Give Jeff a call and
see about getting on to FIAWOL so that we don't have to
broadcast this discussion to the world.  If you are not in the
free calling area then check and see if there is as board
inbetween that would be interested in carrying the sub to allow
you access.  Your input there would be welcomed and The
information about convention planning meetings would be of
interest to all of us.

 > You
 > mentioned Robert  Neagle. Sure Robert can be a little over powering at
 > times, but you have to realize something. Fandom is his life. It's
 > mine too. I gave up a marriage because my mundane wife couldn't cope
 > with my second love, fan life.


Been There, Done Than, got a divorce after 23 years of marrage
to a non fan that forced a 18 year term of Fafia upon me.  She
got tired of trying to reform my fannish ways.

As to Robert ... What can I say, Yes he is a tru-fan, Is he the
black sheep that the stories would have you believe? I don't
know but I do see a lot of his and the Porno-Patrol's hand in the
region which to some people means that they are not interested
in supporting the events.  I have no problem working with Robert
or anyone else in the promotion of Fandom and the Fannish
lifestyle and am a loose cannon and will proudly remain so.
I'll work with anyone than can show me that they are interested
in the return of Active and Social Fandom a region that has
become stagnet with the Fandom Is Just A G/D Hobby mentality.

 > That may not have been the right answer,
 > but it's in my blood, as I see it's in yours. So, I'm charging you to
 > help give everybody a transfusion. Keep the comments comming, we welcome
 > it. But get involved! The next committee meeting is this Sunday in New
 > Orleans. I'll try and post details. If for some reason I can't, I'll
 > post what happens.

I'd be interested in seeing what is going on and look forward to
getting more information as to when and where.  If my megar
efforts help get the blood flowing then I am happy.

 > The next meeting in December will be at our new host
 > hotel, The Broadwater Tower. That's right, a larger hotel for even more
 > activities including what goes on at the convention center! We're
 > growing again at Coast Con, but we're getting anemic with little help
 > from the membership. This is your convention too. Not mine, not Frank's,
 > not Robert's, not the kid that plays AD&D for 72 hours strait at con.
 > It's all of ours!

 > Now in closing, I would invite anybody out there to write me or
 > another one of our committe members online and ask them what you can
 > do to help out. We desperately need you to give us a hand in any way you
 > can. It's not the toughest job in the world, and the pay is low. But
 > come next con when you see everything come together, it's payment
 > enough.

 > Thanks for listening.

 > John Kinberg
 > Coast Con 19 5th Member at Large
 > Dealer's Room Director


 > PS:    Creative Destruction is a new Gulf Coast Fan Club open to
 >        everyone.
 >        Membership is free, and we want to advance fandom in the area. Look
 >        for more info online at a BBS near you. It will be posted by me or
 >        by my infamous alter ego "Beach Bum."
 >
 >  ! Origin: The Galactic Gobbler - OH My (1:3604/28.0)
 >

I will be cross posting this reply and anything else of interest
that I find into the Fiawol Sub for further distribution.
Contact Jeff if you can and join in the fun as we would like to
have someone else in the group with the FIAWOL spirit.  Thanks
for writting.

Fiawol

... Kent Allard in his continuing & relentless quest toward Fugheadedness.

___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20 [NR]


--- FMail/386 1.02
 * Origin: The Black Boar Inn BBS NOLA (504)-482-6583 28.8 V.34 (1:396/89)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 33 of 300
 From : Earl Green                          1:3822/1        .óá 11 Hîÿ 95 14:48
 To   : All
 Subj : THE NEWS
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
This message was from ROBERT PARSON to EARL GREEN,
and was forwarded to you by EARL GREEN.
                    -------------------------
Confirmation came a bit quicker than I thought it might:
                                      ---

Second Science Fiction and Fan
Category 18,  Topic 1
Message 789       Fri Nov 10, 1995
STRACZYNSKI [Joe]            at 01:07 EST

     Peter and Andreas trade off who gets the last actor card, by contract.

     Yes, TNT has acquired the rerun rights to B5.  What that means is that
when the show is over, they then pay the agreed upon fee for x-amount of time,
per episode.  So they don't *own* them yet; that'll happen when the show is
over, which triggers the contracted fee.

     It's good in some ways, but for me as a writer, any cable sale is a huge
loss, because of the way our wonderful Writers Guild handles cable vs.
syndication residuals.  For instance...in broadcast syndication, one of my
Murder, She Wrote episodes *would* bring in a first-time off network residual
fee of about $15,000.  (It goes down a bit consistently from that point on.)
In cable, the fee is a flat one-time percentage of the overall
payment...which, in the M,SW case, means my first-time off network residual
is...$25.

      The only other point of concern is that both sides would tend to view 88
episodes, 4 years, as a "full package."  That's 22 short.

                                                                      jms
 ------------

Couple other notes:  The package with TNT might also include Brisco County,
Lois and Clark, and another which escapes me at the moment.


Robert (tm)

... Earl, are you pondering what I'm pondering...?
 * Silver Xpress V4.3 SW23473
---
 * SLMR 2.0 * "Aren't you...one of those fiddygibbers?" - Heroic Hukka

--- QScan/PCB v1.18b / 01-0162
 * Origin: Jackalope Junction 501-785-5381 Ft Smith AR (1:3822/1)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 34 of 300
 From : Jeff Hancock                        1:3600/7        .åò 09 Hîÿ 95 00:09
 To   : Anthony Van Deyl
 Subj : Movies and shows
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

AVD>Babylon 5 is ok...but it makes me feel like its a TNG type ideal society

HAH hah hah haaaaaha ha!

Sure, once the Night Watch gets through with it... depending on your
definition of "ideal". HA!

-=-
 * Crazy-J * "Those three dots keep following me..." -Paranoid Tagline

--- SLMAIL v3.5C  (#1540)
 * Origin: Robotech þ Lake City's Music*Demo BBS þ [904] 758*9477 (1:3600/7)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 35 of 300
 From : Jon Helis                           1:396/89        .åò 09 Hîÿ 95 05:21
 To   : Phill Ash
 Subj : Re: The Long Twilight Sp
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 -=> Quoting Phill Ash to Jon Helis <=-

 JH> it.  One man controlling all this technology, somewhat reminiscent of
 JH> Forbidden Planet, isn't it?

 PA> And only that???!!!
 PA> The "catwalk" scene was lifted directly from FP

FP is one my favorite all time films, and I didn't even think of
that.  I wonder if Draal is ever going to consider releasing the
knowlege of that world to anyone, like the evil genius of
FP wanted to do.  Might be interesting.





... This is rich! 'Bad Command Or Filename' -Tom Servo using a PC
--- FMail/386 1.02
 * Origin: The Black Boar Inn BBS NOLA (504)-482-6583 28.8 V.34 (1:396/89)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 36 of 300
 From : Jon Helis                           1:396/89        .åò 09 Hîÿ 95 05:23
 To   : Chris Ogniben
 Subj : Re: The Long Twilight Sp
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 -=> Quoting Chris Ogniben to Jon Helis <=-

 CO>
 CO> You people don't remember the purpose that Babylon 4 was taken, to
 CO> be used for?  It was taken by futurstic beings, of Delenn and Sinclair
 CO> to fight a future war.  And Babylon 4 is a station base, or military
 CO> base of operations to fight this war.

Futuristic beings?  What would you call the people that live on
the planet below B5?  I consider that technology to be quite
futuristic.

I remember it was taken to fight a war, but what war was that?
Do we know for sure?  It may be the Shadow war.  We will see.





... "We will see... what we will see." - Delenn
--- FMail/386 1.02
 * Origin: The Black Boar Inn BBS NOLA (504)-482-6583 28.8 V.34 (1:396/89)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 37 of 300
 From : Jon Helis                           1:396/89        .åò 09 Hîÿ 95 05:31
 To   : Chris Ogniben
 Subj : Re: Vir Cotto
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 -=> Quoting Chris Ogniben to Jon Helis <=-

 CO> There i no doubt, that Vir could either help G'Kar or just stay
 CO> loyal to Londo.  But, Londo doesn't owe the Shadow's anything.. Since
 CO> the Shadow's are using Londo to do what they want.. And that is to
 CO> destroy the rest of the lives of many other races.  And, Londo is just
 CO> making it easier for them to do this, without showing themselves to
 CO> all that they exist.

I think that he will provide some form of help to G'Kar, even if
it's just "keeping his ears open" and passing on any good
information to him.  His resentment of what Londo has done would
be a good motive for him to do such a thing.

Londo has gone from being a bufoon in the first season to being
a monster in the second, he may become another person in the
third.  His severing his ties with the Shadows, and his fear of
the Shadows knowing what they can do, may make him become
something else.  He may not turn around, but something will
happen to change him.  It will be interesting.








... "We will see... what we will see." - Delenn
--- FMail/386 1.02
 * Origin: The Black Boar Inn BBS NOLA (504)-482-6583 28.8 V.34 (1:396/89)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 38 of 300
 From : Jon Helis                           1:396/89        .åò 09 Hîÿ 95 05:56
 To   : David Durgee
 Subj : Re: B5: the fall of night
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 -=> Quoting David Durgee to Michael Harper <=-

 DD> In a message dated 11-0495, Michael Harper said to All:

 DD> I agree that the episode was well done. I was not surprised in general
 DD> at Kosh's appearance, although they did ring in one unexpected nuance
 DD> for me. I'm wondering about Londo's remark about seeing nothing. Was he
 DD> lying or telling the truth? I hope we will have the answer to that in
 DD> following episodes.

I remember in the Star Trek episode "Day of the Dove," Kirk
tells a Klingon named Kang to "Go to the devil," and Kang
responds by saying something like "Klingon religion has no
devil."  That's one theory.

A theory I subscribe to is that he's been so engulfed by the
darkness off dealing with the Shadows that he can't see the
light side.  Anyone else have an opinion?



... If this ever happens again Ivanova will personally rip your lungs out.
--- FMail/386 1.02
 * Origin: The Black Boar Inn BBS NOLA (504)-482-6583 28.8 V.34 (1:396/89)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 39 of 300
 From : Jon Helis                           1:396/89        .åò 09 Hîÿ 95 06:06
 To   : American Werewolf
 Subj : Re: Doctor Who on FOX?
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 -=> Quoting American Werewolf to John Dziadek <=-

 AW> John Dziadek is giving a speech on Doctor Who on FOX? again
 JD> Does anyone here know if FOX will still be doing a 2
 JD> hour tv movie of Doctor Who & follow it up with a new
 JD> series?  Any replies (of a non facetious nature) are
 JD> appreciated.

 AW> God, that would be great. I havn't really had any good SciFi to watch
 AW> since TNG went into reruns. I wonder whom the new Doc will be and if
 AW> they plan to bring the old villians back into the series<like I seem
 AW> to remember a crazy old chinaman and his pet, a giant rat. Would love
 AW> to see those characters return>.

Without any good Sci-fi to watch, is Babylon 5 available in your
area?  If you're not sure, let me know where you are, I have a
list of all stations in the country carrying it right now.  It
is a very different type of show compared to the sci-fi most of
us are used to.  It doesn't use all the technospeak that Trek
and it's various incarnations use, just good stories, good
science fiction.  Give it a try, please.  If you have web
access, visit the Lurker's Guide to Babylon 5 at
http://www.hyperion.com.

Later...

Jon








... Babylon Five: the Best in Television
--- FMail/386 1.02
 * Origin: The Black Boar Inn BBS NOLA (504)-482-6583 28.8 V.34 (1:396/89)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 40 of 300
 From : Ml Sands                            1:132/130       .óá 11 Hîÿ 95 02:36
 To   : All
 Subj : In general
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
        Hello. I hope that I am not intruding; you see, I've noticed the
 posts concerning "Questions, but are they rhetorical?" - and I must admit
 to being the one who brought up that subject line. At the time, it seemed
 like a good idea; many of the postings were arguments over B_5 vs ST,
 and maybe I could get a conversation going. I guess it sort of backfired.
 Instead of starting some wide-ranging dialog on space travel, all it
 created was some minor disagreements on the exact amount of fuel required.
        I apologize.
        Another subject on this forum has been the legal/economic status
 of the invtroes on SAAB. I think that subject soured pretty fast. In
 fact it seems monstrous that a few posts were rationalizing "good"
 reasons for slavery.   slavery         SLAVERY
 Even if these invitroes were no more human than Phillip Dick's androids,
 that is still 100% more human than the person who would presume to own
 ANY sentient entity; whether mechanical or genetically engineered.
        I quit.
--- GEcho 1.00
 * Origin:  VetLink #9, Nerrimack NH 603-424-4915 (1:132/130)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 41 of 300
 From : Nicole Wilson                       1:271/266       .óá 11 Hîÿ 95 02:00
 To   : Teresa Beacher
 Subj : EARTH 2
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

TB> Does anyone know if if the Doctor in Earth 2 played Pilot in Captain
TB> Power.

A few weeks after Earth 2 premiered I read a interview with Jessica
Steen.(I have it here somewhere, If I find it I'll type it and send it
to you, or at least a list of her credits so far.)
Here is a very short list from memory; (I know there is more)

Jessica Steen has been on "Homefront" on the American Broadcasting
Corporation (ABC) in 1990-1993 as Laura Metcalf a civil rights advocate.
(Set in the 40's I think.)

She was also (duh) on Earth 2 in '94-'95 on NBC as (in the pilot, I
was told) "Dr. Julia Stern" and in all following episodes as
"Dr. Julia Heller".

To answer your question, Yes, I believe she did say she was in a
children's show in Ontario called (I think) Captain Power.
(However I could be wrong as It's been _months_ since I read that
interview.)

P.S. what does 3 in the (3:000/000) stand for?
(a.k.a. what country do you live in?)

                          Ttyl, Nicole Wilson

---
 þ OLX 2.2 þ The Counsil will stop at nothing to take control.

--- QScan/PCB v1.16b / 01-0765
 * Origin: Olympus BBS, Newport News Va. 804-595-0117 (1:271/266)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 42 of 300
 From : Richard Sarner                      1:271/236       .óá 11 Hîÿ 95 09:42
 To   : Anthony Van Deyl
 Subj : Re: Quickening effects
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE 1.11+
 Whilst falling into the sun on 04 Nov 95, Anthony Van Deyl yelled to us:

 AVD> is it explained why the character is DUNCAN macleod and not CONNER?
 AVD> anmd why is duncan the highlander, i thought conner was...

The series was to center around Connor, but Christopher Lambert declined to to
do the show. The producers wanted to keep the concept, but the character Connor
was in the movies, so Duncan was created.

  ...Richard

--- GEcho 1.11+
 * Origin: THE TIME MACHINE (804)599-6401 TRAVEL THE PORTALS! (1:271/236)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 43 of 300
 From : Starwolf                            1:163/214       .óá 11 Hîÿ 95 01:39
 To   : Michael Harper
 Subj : Time Tunnel
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Yah, the Tunnel set was impressive, even with those cheezy Irwin Allen
blinky-winkies(tm) everywhere.

I think one of the Tunnel control staff actors is dead, possibly more.  Lee
Meriwether is still alive, I think.  Good luck on the digitally remastered,
though.  And for the tvm.  I'm hoping, too, but, thus far, the only one of his
shows anyone seems to have been semi-serious about doing is LAND OF THE GIANTS -
possibly his weakest offering.

Still, the tvm taking up where THE INVADERS series left off is a promising
advent.  Catch it Sunday and Tuesday evenings.


--- Maximus 2.01wb
 * Origin: Land of Ill Repute (1:163/214)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 44 of 300
 From : Owen E. Oulton                      1:243/45        .óá 11 Hîÿ 95 12:50
 To   : Anthony Van Deyl
 Subj : books
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

NS>The Demolished Man, by Bester
NS>The Stars by Destination, by Bester
 AVD> isnt the stars my destination an anthology of sci-fi?
 AVD> i thought it had a few short stories in it.

Nope.  It's a novel, one of the few Bester has ever written.  Most of Bester's
work is short fiction, but the two Nicolai mentioned are novels.

CFN, O

--- Maximus 2.01wb
 * Origin: Pandora's Box, Ottawa, Ont. 613-829-1209 (1:243/45)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 45 of 300
 From : Dustin Toews                        1:153/758       .ÿò 10 Hîÿ 95 15:17
 To   : Boris CDuke
 Subj : Re: test
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 -=> Quoting Boris CDuke to All <=-

 BC> AREA:SFFAN
 BC> Hi All!

 BC> Sombody from 1st zone please send me this message back via INTERNET
 BC> to: boris@sfclub.freenet.kiev.ua.

 BC> Thanx

 BC> Bestest, Boris

 BC>  ! Origin: Imagineering (2:463/2.22)
 BC> SEEN!BY: 1/201 10/8 11/157 13/13 75 100/525 104/821 105/69 103 330
 BC> 106/2000 SEEN!BY: 106/7645 107/411 941 115/2 120/229 123/1 16 129/11
 BC> 133/707 5050 SEEN!BY: 147/76 150/1 153/413 716 751 752 757 758 800 813
 BC> 823 920 923 942 SEEN!BY: 153/7019 7041 7082 8023 9114 154/222 157/586
 BC> 161/55 167/92 170/400 SEEN!BY: 200/204 201/505 203/15 206/2711 209/720
 BC> 215/705 234/100 300 249/99 SEEN!BY: 250/743 255/19 261/1096 267/126 200
 BC> 270/101 102 103 104 911 279/14 SEEN!BY: 280/1 282/1 283/657 292/876
 BC> 311/111 322/360 325/118 332/1 341/70 SEEN!BY: 345/12 348/105 353/246
 BC> 362/37 379/10 380/25 381/112 387/31 396/1 SEEN!BY: 600/253 640/201
 BC> 712/515 721/117 724/10 733/1000 2230/118 2430/1423 SEEN!BY: 2433/225
 BC> 2605/606 2613/5 2624/306 3401/308 3550/500 3611/18 SEEN!BY: 3612/240
 BC> 3615/50 3619/25 3629/101 3637/1 3653/777 3805/3

Eh dude.. How are things man.. Just a test eh? Well.. I'm replying to it!

DEMON!


... A feature is a bug with seniority.
--- FMail/386 1.0g
 * Origin: Crossroads BBS  <Vancouver, Canada> 1-604-872-3560 (1:153/758)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 46 of 300
 From : Mrs. Bashir                         1:229/610       .åò 09 Hîÿ 95 12:00
 To   : Ritchie Funk
 Subj : Re: Dr. Bashir name change
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
I could have told you that!!

Sam..

--- CNet/3
 * Origin: The Neutral Zone...(1:229/610.0)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 47 of 300
 From : Mrs. Bashir                         1:229/610       .ÿò 10 Hîÿ 95 10:55
 To   : American Werewolf
 Subj : Re: Dr. Bashir name change
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
First that should be SPINER and second, everyone at the Doctor's Exchange love
his real name and can say it! I haven't been there long but maybe Sid gave
everyone lessons on how to pronounce it!


Sam..

--- CNet/3
 * Origin: The Neutral Zone...(1:229/610.0)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 48 of 300
 From : Anne Hardcastle                     1:393/7         .óá 11 Hîÿ 95 20:46
 To   : Todd Sullivan
 Subj : Re: Casting Pern
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Hey, is this just idle speculation or has somebody in Hollywood started to
actually think about this?
--- CNet/3
 * Origin: The Bard's Tavern Denton, TX (817)243-5110 USR 28.8   (1:393/7)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 49 of 300
 From : Derek Wakefield                     1:393/7         .cê 12 Hîÿ 95 01:42
 To   : Chris Carter
 Subj : Re: B5 -- Coincidence?
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

CC> Actually, JMS has, when asked about an anime, commented that he has
CC> seen essentially no anime whatsoever.  As for lifting plots from
CC> anime, you may want to ask yourself where the anime you're referring
CC> to lifted its plots.

I seem to remember George Lucas saying the same thing, yet there are still
numerous reports that exist to this day stating that he was in Japan around the
time that Yamato I first aired.  Then when Lucas sued Larson for ripping off
Star Wars with Galactica, Larson asked Nishizaki for a letter stating that it
was Yamato that Galactica attempted to emulate...not SW (this came out in an
interview with Nishizaki in a national Anime magazine article earlier this
year).

I won't doubt there are a lot of anime shows that lift plotlines from American
and European shows.  Yamato in fact lifts a number of it's basic plotlines from
naval history (some of which in that the BB Yamato participated).  However, in
light of how weak the copyright agreements are between Japan and America, it's
not too suprising that plotlines tend to be snitched on both sides of the
Pacific.

In Star Blazers 2: The Comet Empire, we saw one of the first rainbow warp
effects, and there was this scene in which the Star Force mutinies, steals the
ship, and the EDF sends out it's latest and greatest new Space Battleship, the
Andromeda to chase her down.  This was done in 1978, and seen here in 79.  In
Star Trek TMP, we saw the Enterprise using a rainbow warp effect, and a few
years later, in Star Trek 3, we had the crew mutiny, steal the ship, and the UFP
sent out their latest and greatest Space Battleship, the Excelsior, to chase it
down.

Similaries again...hmm.  Going into TNG, there are yet more similarities, but
they are much more subtile, and may be looked upon as in-jokes for those Yamato
fans of us out there.
--- CNet/3
 * Origin: The Bard's Tavern Denton, TX (817)243-5110 USR 28.8   (1:393/7)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 50 of 300
 From : Paul Manson                         1:229/15        .óá 11 Hîÿ 95 00:23
 To   : All
 Subj : I NEED HELP FTP SITE
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Apologies for posting this message to most of the Trek/B5 conferences
and news groups but I wanted the widest possible distribution in order
to try and solve my problem.

I am looking for some good-hearted soul who has access to an Internet
FTP site or a WWW page who will keep current copies of Earl Green's
Logbook.

The current editions are STLB1095.zip and LBMI1095.zip.

I know they are available from BBS's in area codes
205, 214, 310, 407, 414, 501, 513, 609, 613, 802, and 916

I also know that Chris Bray has the log books on his www page but:

1. Earl announced the release of 1095 more than a week ago and they
   have yet to appear on Chris' page, and

2. Chris doesn't keep the zip files. He stores each file as a separate
   page.

If you are in a city where one of the following BBS's is located and
have access to an internet FTP site, would you please help.

I figure that I am paying alot of money for my Internet access and
therefore shoudl be able to access the files without incurring
additional long distance charges.

The file names are:

Filename:  STLB1095.ZIP
File size:  325,494 bytes

Filename:  LBMI1095.ZIP
File size:  177,273 bytes

North American distribution sites (in order of area code):
Federation Space           (205) 361-6140   1:375/64        300-2400
Arsenal of Freedom         (214) 271-5410   1:124/9006     9600-28.8 DUAL
West Los Angeles BBS       (310) 838-9229   1:102/635      28.8 V.FC,V42b,V32b
AmiTrek BBS                (407) 348-3365   1:3633/1701    2400-28.8 V.34 DUAL
Graphics Clipper           (414) 284-6108   1:154/284      9600-28.8
Jackalope Junction         (501) 785-5381   1:3822/1       2400-28.8 V.34 DUAL
The Dead Zone              (513) 521-0705   1:108/430      28.8 V.FC,V42b,V32b
Klingon SoftWare Labs/BBS  (609) 662-2878   1:266/102      28.8 V.FC,V42b,V32b
Baroque BBS                (613) 634-6064   1:249/121      2400-28.8 VFC
Procyon                    (802) 626-1091   1:325/810       300-14.4
Deep Space Franchise       (916) 721-1701   1:203/1701.0   1200-14.4 v32

Australian distribution site:
Gallifrey                   (02) 820-7624   3:713/910      up to 14.4 v32

United Kingdom distribution site:
USS Bear                 +44 151 637-1461   2:250/209       300-14.4 (21.6HST)
[local: (0151) 637-1461]

Please help.

Thanks

Paul S. Manson

==============================    ("`-''-/").___..--''"`-._         11-11-95
        Paul S. Manson            (6 _ 6 )'  `-.  (     ).`-.__.`)     00:16
   Toronto, Ontario, Canada        (_Y_.)'  ._   )  `._ `. ``-..-'
     pmanson@inforamp.net        _..`--'_..-_/  /--'_.' ,'   (If I'm "lion",
    paul.manson@canrem.com      (il),-''  (li),'  ((!.-'         I'm dyin'!)
==============================
---
 * 1st 2.00 #815 * It never hurts to suck up to the boss - 33rd SROA

--- QScan/PCB v1.17b / 01-0348
 * Origin: FidoNet: CRS Online, Toronto, Ontario (1:229/15)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 51 of 300
 From : Ken Mayes                           1:393/7         .cê 12 Hîÿ 95 09:22
 To   : Chris Carter
 Subj : Re: B5 -- Coincidence?
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On Fri 10-Nov-1995  7:00p, Chris Carter wrote:

CC> Actually, JMS has, when asked about an anime, commented that he has
CC> seen essentially no anime whatsoever.  As for lifting plots from
CC> anime, you may want to ask yourself where the anime you're referring
CC> to lifted its plots.


        Actually, Yamato was essentially a science fiction rendition of World
War II with the ending changed around a bit (so that the Japanese/our heroes
would win). The story in question was lifted from an actual battle in World War
II which took place in China if I'm not mistaken on the Yang Tse river. The
point I was trying to make was that as a science fiction story, Yamato did it
first, and did it better.
        And I've heard the declarations from some quarters that Yamato was a
simple rip of Star Wars. That is blatantly untrue as Yamato pre-dated Star Wars
by three years. Even Trek has lifted or coincidentally used ideas which were
first used in Yamato...one or two coincidences I could write off but when show
after show, Bab-5, Trek, Space, Star Wars, continue to lift those plots and plot
elements so consistently, I start to wonder.




--- CNet/3
 * Origin: The Bard's Tavern Denton, TX (817)243-5110 USR 28.8   (1:393/7)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 52 of 300
 From : Kay Shapero                         1:102/524       .óá 11 Hîÿ 95 13:39
 To   : Ken Mayes
 Subj : Re: B5 -- Coincidence?
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Nov 09 18:39>, Ken Mayes (1:393/7@fido) wrote to Kay Shapero:

 KM>Which ending would that be? The Arrivaderci ending where Theresa
 KM>converts the Yamato into anti-matter and Kodai rams Zordar's
 KM>dreadnaught? Or the Final Yamato ending where Okita fires the
 KM>super-charged wave-gun into the Planet Aquarius, ripping the
 KM>Yamato apart in the process and then going down with the ship as
 KM>she sinks into the blue seas of Aquarius?
 KM>

Either of 'em would do.  :->

--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 53 of 300
 From : David Reffitt                       1:280/341       .óá 11 Hîÿ 95 07:55
 To   : Chris Ogniben
 Subj : Re: Vir Cotto
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
I do see your point. Do you think that when Londo dies that Vir might take his
place?


---
 * Origin: Beyond the Pale 913-384-1577 (1:280/341)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 54 of 300
 From : Frank Swarbrick                     1:104/825       .ÿò 10 Hîÿ 95 06:45
 To   : The Raven
 Subj : Chronology needed for KOL
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12  92-0022
On 11-08-95  06:14 The Raven, the thief who couldn't sleep, said:

 GW> I'm watching and taping eps of KOLCHAK:  THE NIGHT STALKER which the
 GW> Sci-Fi Channel is running for its two-day "Kolchak Marathon."  It
 GW> occurs to me that I've read some posts in a Fido echo or two saying
 GW> there may be a sequel planned to the series, one in which Kolchak
 GW> (played in the original series and TV movies by Darren McGavin) meets
 GW> Mulder and Sculley from the X-FILES.  Is this just wishful thinking on
 GW> some fans' hearts, or is this (or any type of sequel) planned?

 FS> I think it's wishful thinking.  Kind of like the one where Scully and
 FS> Mulder go to Twin Peaks, Washington, and David Lynch directs.  Yeah,
 FS> right...  :-)

 TR> Actually, there were negotiations to have this exact thing
 TR> happen, but they fell through.  And the other one you may have heard
 TR> about was having David Duchovny appear as Fox Mulder on Picket Fences.

Well that one (XF/PF) was definately a planned thing, and not just a
rumor.  As for the others, well...

        Frank

... The Psi Corps Is Your Friend.  Trust The Corps.
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12
 * Origin: The Bailey Information Exchange BBS, 28.8k v.fc  (1:104/825.0)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 55 of 300
 From : Frank Swarbrick                     1:104/825       .ÿò 10 Hîÿ 95 10:07
 To   : Nicolai Shapero
 Subj : Quark at Roswell,NM
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12  92-0022
On 11-09-95  07:04 Nicolai Shapero, the thief who couldn't sleep, said:

 NS> On <Nov 07 11:12>, Ritchie Funk (1:140/122) wrote to Jon Helis:

 -=> Quoting Jon Helis to All <=-

 JH> Next week's Deep Space 9 looks interesting, they're going to do an
 JH> episode about the crash at Roswell,NM.  The alien that's going to
 JH> crash there is Quark.  They must be desparate for story lines.

 RF>Are you suggesting that this is not going to be a good story. I
 RF>have
 RF>not seen it yet but it sounds like its going to be good.

 NS> Just my two cents, but I thought that the Roswell episoded was a hoot.
 NS> MUCH better than a number of the scripts they've saddled DS9 with
 NS> lately.   Of course, I've always been a fan of good sf-humor...

I haven't seen "Little Green Men" yet, but I'm just curious as to what
recent DSN episodes you haven't liked.  I think all of this season's
episodes have been at least good, with two ("The Visitor" and
"Rejoined") being great.

        Frank

... Soul Windows (Version 3.1)
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12
 * Origin: The Bailey Information Exchange BBS, 28.8k v.fc  (1:104/825.0)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 56 of 300
 From : Frank Swarbrick                     1:104/825       .ÿò 10 Hîÿ 95 10:11
 To   : Todd Sullivan
 Subj : Star Wars I
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12  92-0022
On 11-08-95  12:18 Todd Sullivan, the thief who couldn't sleep, said:

 TS> Whilst falling into the sun on 07 Nov 95, Steven Wesen yelled to me:

 SW> That was what I was told they plan to have the next film in the
 SW> theaters either christmas 1998 or just after 1999 unless another
 SW> project comes up.

 TS> Lucas is still, last I heard, waiting for Mark Hamill to look old
 TS> enough to play Anakin Skywalker.

You're not serious are you?  Not that I don't think Hammill would play
a good Anakin Skywalker, but I thought they were going to use all
different actors.

Anyway, it's been almost 20 years since Star Wars, so I'd have to say
that Hammill's at least 40, or will be in a few years.  Certainly
that's plenty old enough isn't it?

        Frank

... I am become Death, Destroyer of Worlds.
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12
 * Origin: The Bailey Information Exchange BBS, 28.8k v.fc  (1:104/825.0)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 57 of 300
 From : Mark Jones                          1:105/302.47    .ÿò 10 Hîÿ 95 11:44
 To   : Jeff Hancock
 Subj : B5 VS. TREK, AGAIN.
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On (07 Nov 95) Jeff Hancock wrote to Ecarey...

 JH> EC>Trek has been around for three decades, and actually is extremely
 JH> EC>popular and extremely profitable. TV Guide can ban boost its sales
 JH> by
 JH>
 JH> Yes, yes, but that doesn't mean that it should overshadow all
 JH> other SF just because it is popular. Yes, I know how that sounds,
 JH> but the problem is that to too many people SF television is
 JH> characterized either by Trek or by bad "Sci-Fi" movies. If the
 JH> person doesn't like Trek they might not look much further, and
 JH> may not even have the chance.

"Should" has nothing to do with it, though.  You're dealing with the
realities of free-market economics.  STAR TREK, whatever else you can
say about it, has been a money-maker for Paramount for nearly thirty
years.  It has, accordingly, become the model for what many people in
and out of the business think of as "science fiction" (in particular,
as financially-lucrative science fiction).

So Star Trek has remained in production (since the first movie) pretty
much non-stop all that time.  The public demands it, and they're
willing part with their shekels to get it.  So they get lots of it.
And as long as it continues to deliver what the fans want, it will
probably continue indefinitely.

If that squeezes out other forms of SF, or makes their attempts to get
a foot in the door that much harder...that's life.  It works the same
way in publishing.  Big-name authors can command huge advances and
lots of contractual goodies, sometimes at the expense of lesser or
beginning writers.  Even if, as sometimes happens, the big-name writer
isn't as good as the newbie (or isn't anymore, even if he once was).
But the big-name author can coast on his reputations...at least for a
while.  But the new guy has to really stand out before he gets
noticed.

For a long time there was no (lasting) tv sf but Star Trek.  Now,
finally, we seem to be getting a rash of successful (and generally
quite good) alternatives.  X-Files.  Highlander.  Forever Knight.
Babylon 5, etc.  If they succeed, they may open a few eyes to other
possibilities besides Trek.  But they've got to work a lot harder than
the Trek crew because they don't have a thirty-year record behind
them.  Trek does.  It may not be fair, but its the way it is.


--- PPoint 1.78
 * Origin: Folcroft Sanitarium (hsmith@cure.com) (1:105/302.47)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 58 of 300
 From : Judy Hayes                          1:154/40        .óá 11 Hîÿ 95 22:43
 To   : Myranya Werlemann
 Subj : Re: Personal Favorites.
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

->As Quoshara walked the halls she heard Myranya say:

 MW> Trill character, Krystyne Vanix. And Ronald's got my head.
 JH> Well, make him give it back!  }}|-)

 MW> I will, I will... I'm really not using it that much, anyways, I've
 MW> been using my Trill much more often. It's definitely more comfortable
 MW> make-up on a full day con.

I can only imagine at this point.  'Though I have had a couple of people give
me pointers about how to keep cooler and dryer while wearing them.

 MW> head, or something like, 'Did I leave my head in here, yesterday?'
 JH> How you could *misplace* something like that I'll never know.  They're
 JH> too expensive if you buy them and too time consuming if you make your
 JH> own...not something *I'd* want to misplace.

 MW> This was at three-day cons in OKC. Believe me, at 3:00 am after a
 MW> whole nite of partying these heads get pretty hot. So we take them
 MW> off. Most of these room parties are with the same crowd all the time
 MW> -it's a small con, not a 1000+ commercial affair.

Oh...That makes it much easier then...'though I don't misplace things so much
now as I used to.  I think it comes from having children and having to keep
track of their stuff as well as my own. <g>

 MW> So we just put the
 MW> head somewhere up high on top of something... Really, there are
 MW> usually a few rooms that are used by the same groups of people... We
 MW> crash sometimes in different rooms, as well... Sort it all out in the
 MW> morning...

Been there, done that...had a wonderful time. <BG>

 JH> No, thanks.  A blade is much more satifying and makes the halls and
 JH> corridors such a lovely shade. <g>

 MW> Ah, I did notice the new paint-job... <G>

Yes, it *is* rather attractive with those abstract splashes of red. <g>

 JH> It *does* tend to pile up if you don't download every day or so.  I
 JH> find that I actually spend *less* time with it if I read it everyday
 JH> than if I wait and get a bloof of mail once a week.  I guess my mind
 JH> stays more alert and I read faster.

 MW> Yeah, I know what you mean. I think it's that when you get one of
 MW> these neat packs with 'read: 5 , unread: 3500' , kinda makes me freak
 MW> out when I gotta get started on reading and answering that kind of
 MW> mail. I try to keep up with it every day, but I know I am not always
 MW> succeeding. I try to at least read everything and delete the mezzies
 MW> I don't need to answer -replying can take a bit longer, but having
 MW> those large numbers disappear from my screen makes it look so much
 MW> better.. <G>

Plus, it makes those of us waiting for answers sooo much happier.

 MW> Alright, 1 down, 3499 to go. <BG>

Good Luck!!

      --Quoshara


... A clean desk is a sign of a cluttered desk drawer.
---
 * Origin: Anonymous BBS -=- Non plus Ultra -=- 414-251-2580 (1:154/40)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 59 of 300
 From : David Little                        1:106/7315      .ÿò 10 Hîÿ 95 13:04
 To   : Bianca Wesslak
 Subj : Red Dwarf / Time travel
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
-=<( Bianca Wesslak used the Jedi Mind Trick on me! )>=-

 DL> -=<( Bianca Wesslak used the Jedi Mind Trick on me! )>=-
 BW> I knew I had a talent somewhere.  <G>

        YOU WISH!! <g>

 DL> In one episode Lister goes back right before RD shoves off and
 DL> finds his future self married to Kachanski. He's supposed to find a way
 DL> five years into his future to get back and marry her. I guess since
 DL> Lister lost Red Dwarf they can't do it now...
 BW> They will probably find a way of dealing with that in season 7.  or
 BW> maybe kachanski will use her time travel and go help him deal with his
 BW> future time travel in season six.  Ye Gods how did they ever get time
 BW> travel in their  hands.

        There's been several episodes where they've gone through time. Even
the one where the photographs allow them to change the course of history and
make Lister, Cat, and Kryten disappear. It's a common theme it seems...

                                        -=The DoLittle 8-)=-

... "GASPATCHO SOUP!" -- Rimmer
--- FreeMail & Blue Wave/TAG v2.20
 * Origin: The Wizard's Realm ** (713) 946-7315 ** (1:106/7315)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 60 of 300
 From : Alex Talan                          1:153/969       .ÿò 10 Hîÿ 95 23:10
 To   : Kay Shapero
 Subj : Re: Vir Cotto
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

-=> Kay Shapero was torturing Alex Talan about....<=-

 AT>That's right, thanks for the correction there Kay. =)  What do
 AT>you think's going to happen?

 KS> Londo is going to get his head handed to him and Vir is going to do
 KS> something totally unexpected.  Along, of course, with his reminding
 KS> Londo of that discussion they had someday, as he said he would.

Ahh, well, we'll have to see once the next episode comes along. =)  I
unfortunately don't have the time to watch it <Sigh>  i'm really really
busy nowadays with school and all, and so, if you could tell me the
outcome, I'd be most grateful,ciao!

                        -Alex


... The Borg assimilated my planet & all I got was this lousy tee shirt!
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
 * Origin: The Grey Havens - 604-273-1864 - Richmond, BC, Canada (1:153/969)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 61 of 300
 From : J.T. Smith                          1:132/152       .óá 11 Hîÿ 95 08:20
 To   : d'FOX
 Subj : Re: Empire vs. Federation
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Contact has been made.

 RF> Who would win in a battle the Federation or the Empire? The
 RF> Federation of  course!
 JS> If only because the bad guys always lose. D)

 d'> Who Said the Empire are the "BAD GUYS" :-)

 Oh gee, could it have something to do with a certain "Dark Side of the
 Force" ? D)


... Is Darth Vader YOUR father, too?
--- Blue Wave v2.12 [NR]
 * Origin: The Cereal Port BBS (OS/2) Rindge,NH 603-899-3335 (1:132/152)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 62 of 300
 From : J.T. Smith                          1:132/152       .óá 11 Hîÿ 95 09:12
 To   : Daniel Marr
 Subj : Star Wars I
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Contact has been made.

 DM> Has anyone heard how George Lucas is doing on Star Wars episode I?

 Nae recently.

 DM> I know that he was going to start work on it, and last I heard, it
 DM> was suposed to be out in 1997.  I have been seeing all sorts of adds
 DM> for the re-released movies, and there are Star Wars toys out again.  It

 Check yer local Bradlees and WalMart stores.  Both have a TON of new stuff.


... Who needs drugs? I go broke buying Sci-Fi!
--- Blue Wave v2.12 [NR]
 * Origin: The Cereal Port BBS (OS/2) Rindge,NH 603-899-3335 (1:132/152)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 63 of 300
 From : J.T. Smith                          1:132/152       .óá 11 Hîÿ 95 09:16
 To   : Myra I Fox
 Subj : Tom Holt
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Contact has been made.

 MIF> And I have "Flying Dutch" and "Ye Gods" ... care to share our little
 MIF> collections?

 I *LOVE* his stuff.  Flying Dutch was good.  Haven't seen Ye Gods yet, but
 intend to look for it!

 MIF> I just finished with "Good Omens" and "Eric".  "Eric" was good just
 MIF> because it had Rincewind and the Luggage <g>.
 MIF> They had "Lords and Ladies" at Borders (checked it out last weekend)
 MIF> but I didn't have the money to buy it <sigh>.

 Are these also Holt books??



... "Is that his battle cry?" "No. The keel just went over his foot."
--- Blue Wave v2.12 [NR]
 * Origin: The Cereal Port BBS (OS/2) Rindge,NH 603-899-3335 (1:132/152)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 64 of 300
 From : J.T. Smith                          1:132/152       .óá 11 Hîÿ 95 09:23
 To   : Steven Wesen
 Subj : Re: Space Rangers
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Contact has been made.

 SW> A failed campain to milk Science Fiction crowd and lost to the Empire
 SW> of Trek.

 HEY, it was a good show!  (Nae, I'm not kidding.  Aye, I did like it!)
 It was rather doomed from the start though.  First off, they only made
 10 or so eps to see how well it would do, then they went and showed the
 first show somewhere around #3 or 4.  I only wished I'd thought to tape
 more than just one ep.

... Not now! I'm watching Space Rangers!
--- Blue Wave v2.12 [NR]
 * Origin: The Cereal Port BBS (OS/2) Rindge,NH 603-899-3335 (1:132/152)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 65 of 300
 From : Dkimmel                             1:101/230       .ÿò 10 Hîÿ 95 08:55
 To   : Todd Sullivan
 Subj : KUBRICK
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
TS> D> And I had exactly the opposite reaction.  I think Kubrick is such a damn
TS> D> fine filmmaker that I avoided reading the King book so I wouldn't go
TS> D> into the movie with any preconceptions.  Since I consider King merely a
TS> D> hack writer who got lucky while Kubrick is one of the giants of
TS> D> world cinema, I think I got the better part of the deal. :)

TS>Whatever.

TS>King's at least honest enough to admit he's a hack.  But, he's good at what
TS>does, and you can't deny that he makes good money out of his work.

TS>As for luck, do Grisham and Clancy fall into that catagory?  I think not, wh
TS>you consider that the quality of their work hasn't fallen.

I think so, when you consider the "quality" of their work wasn't much to
begin with.  Grisham, indeed, is the legal version of King, churning out
cookie cutter books that are released in hardcover mostly to promote the
inevitable movie version.

TS>King's has, I'll
TS>admit, but he's got a loyal following of masochists. :^)

Yes, King has become a "brand name" author whose books are inevitable
best sellers regardless of their merit or lack thereof.  I don't
begrudge him his success but that doesn't mean I have to pretend his
profits confer talent upon him.

The difference between such hacks and an artist like Kubrick could not
be clearer.


 * SLMR 2.1a * Don't mind him.  He's from Barcelona.

--- FLAME v1.0
 * Origin: Withouta Net - Drop In Anytime! - 617/846-5416 (1:101/230)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 66 of 300
 From : Dkimmel                             1:101/230       .ÿò 10 Hîÿ 95 08:14
 To   : Michael Harper
 Subj : HITLER'S BRAIN
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
MH> > I've seen "They Saved Hitler's Brain" and it's pretty rotten,
MH> > beleive me.  Seeing those guys carrying Hitler's head around
MH> > in a glass case with it making faces is somewhat laughable,
MH> > but the film was a major disaster.

MH> > Now the "Boys from Brazil", that's a different story.

MH>Yeah, but its very badness is its saving grace... I understand that a lot of
MH>was culled frlock horror flick, with Kubrick directing the bits that were
MH>added...

Just in case there are any lurkers who don't get that you're simply
ragging on the great director, Stanely Kubrick had NOTHING to do with
the shlocker "They Saved Hitler's Brain."

 * SLMR 2.1a * Are you a Turtle?

--- FLAME v1.0
 * Origin: Withouta Net - Drop In Anytime! - 617/846-5416 (1:101/230)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 67 of 300
 From : Ecarey                              1:101/230       .ÿò 10 Hîÿ 95 17:24
 To   : Robert Parson
 Subj : VIR COTTO
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
RP>And just what's the deal between Vir and Lennier, anyway?

I think that was just a mildly humorous reminder that the diplomatic
staff all have the same problems, and consequently, in some ways as much
in common with each other as with their bosses, who are deeply involved
in Great Events. I don't think it was intended as anything more than
that.

Of course, with JMS, you never know.:)

 * OLX 2.1 TD * I'm in shape ... round's a shape isn't it?

--- FLAME v1.0
 * Origin: Withouta Net - Drop In Anytime! - 617/846-5416 (1:101/230)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 68 of 300
 From : Ecarey                              1:101/230       .ÿò 10 Hîÿ 95 17:24
 To   : Wiebke Pommert
 Subj : BRISCO COUNTY JR.
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
WP>**I now my English is not so good, but I work very hard in order to learn
WP>better this wonderful Lenguage:-))
WP>I need more practic to speak and write in English.

Well, your spelling needs some work, but your grammar is good, good
enough for all but formal writing, and easily as good as our German
scientists at work, who've been in America, speaking and writing English
almost exclusively for three or four years - in a couple of cases, six
years.

Whereas I speak no German at all, and while I read French, I can't write
it at much better than kindergarten level, and I speak it just well
enough that I convince Frenchmen I'm a civilized person - but then they
answer in English.:)  [I try to take comfort in the fact that when they
answer in English, it's at least a response to what I said, rather than
a question about what I thought meant.:)]

So if your goal is to become completely fluent in English, you're well
on your way!

 * OLX 2.1 TD * Proofread carefully to see if you any words out.

--- FLAME v1.0
 * Origin: Withouta Net - Drop In Anytime! - 617/846-5416 (1:101/230)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 69 of 300
 From : Ecarey                              1:101/230       .ÿò 10 Hîÿ 95 21:42
 To   : Nicolai Shapero
 Subj : S.M. STIRLING
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
NS>NS>It's S.M. Stirling, and S. M. Stirling is a SHE, not a HE.

NS>NS>Just thought you might like to know.  (By the by, she's a marine, too...)

NS> E>Uh, no. S.M. [Steve] Sterling is a man.

NS>Not according to Jim Baen, who has met Ms. Stirling.  Mr. Baen has published
NS>some of her work (The Children's Hour, co-author Jerry Pournelle).

Nicolai, I've met Steve Stirling. If that's a woman, she's got a
_serious_ hormonal problem. She would also probably have to be
deceiving Ontario authorities, depending on exactly what Canadian law is
with regard to marriage - I quote from the back flap of THE CITY WHO
FOUGHT, by Anne McCaffrey and S.M. Stirling:

"S.M. Stirling is the author of the "Draka" alternate history series,
and has previously collaborated with Jerry Pournelle on the "Man-Kzin
Wars" series and the "Falkenberg's Legion" series, and with military SF
master David Drake on the popular series, "The General." He lives in
Toronto with his wife, Jan, and cat, Nyla."              ^^^^^^^^^
             ^^^^^^^^^

That's a Baen book, c.1993, BTW. Apparently, at that time, Jim Baen also
believed S.M. Stirling to be male, and married to a woman.

Are you quite sure you are not thinking of someone else, perhaps Shirley
Maier? She and Steve Stirling collaborated on a barbarian-swordswoman
type adventure that skirted the edges of being softcore porn, and for a
while many people assumed that "S.M. Stirling" was _also_ female, which
was reasonable but wrong. Shirley Maier has since written books on her
own as well as collaborating with with people other than Stirling; I
don't have THE CHILDREN'S HOUR, so I can't check on who collaborated
with Pournelle on that.

 * OLX 2.1 TD * The universe wasn'tcreated in the order you discovered it

--- FLAME v1.0
 * Origin: Withouta Net - Drop In Anytime! - 617/846-5416 (1:101/230)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 70 of 300
 From : Dkimmel                             1:101/230       .óá 11 Hîÿ 95 07:22
 To   : Piotr W. Cholewa
 Subj : KUBRICK
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
PWC>  D> As for Steven King, I don't doubt he dislikes Kubrick.  King
PWC> D> is a hack writer, regardless of his popularity, whose works
PWC> D> will eventually be forgotten.  Kubrick is an artist, who has

PWC>I agree with this, BTW.

Thank goodness.  I was beginning to wonder if the world had so changed
that an artist like Kubrick was dismissed while a hack like King was
revered.  The good news about Kubrick is that in the next year or so
we'll be seeing his next film, "A.I.," based on a Brian Aldiss story.
The bad news is that at the speed he works, he may not have many more
movies left in him.

 * SLMR 2.1a * We've got MOVIE SIGN!!!!

--- FLAME v1.0
 * Origin: Withouta Net - Drop In Anytime! - 617/846-5416 (1:101/230)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 71 of 300
 From : Ecarey                              1:101/230       .óá 11 Hîÿ 95 10:16
 To   : Jeff Hancock
 Subj : B5 VS. TREK, AGAIN.
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
JH>EC>When was the last time that TV Guide did a review of KUNG FU: THE
JH>EC>LEGEND CONTINUES, or THE NEW ADVENTURES OF HERCULES, or VANISHING
JH>EC>SON? It's for the same reason, and quality of the shows is only an
JH>EC>incidental consideration. [And VANISHING SON is _good_, btw.]

JH>I don't know, I don't read TV Guide. ;-)

JH>EW has done Hercules, and I *think* they might have done one on KUNG FU.
JH>VANISHING SON doesn't ring a bell, though.

Of course, KUNG FU is something of a special case, too, in that lots of
boomers remember the earlier series.


JH>EC>Sorry for the appalling line noise.:(

JH>There was only one chunk of it, although there wasn't any more to the
JH>message after that... Got cut off?

Not _quite_ - I tried to write some more, but when the line noise became
too much, I managed to end the message without saving the line noise.:)

 * OLX 2.1 TD * Press any key to continue or any other key to quit

--- FLAME v1.0
 * Origin: Withouta Net - Drop In Anytime! - 617/846-5416 (1:101/230)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 72 of 300
 From : Ecarey                              1:101/230       .óá 11 Hîÿ 95 10:16
 To   : David Durgee
 Subj : B5: THE FALL OF NIGHT
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
DD>I agree that the episode was well done. I was not surprised in general at
DD>Kosh's appearance, although they did ring in one unexpected nuance for me.
DD>I'm wondering about Londo's remark about seeing nothing. Was he lying or
DD>telling the truth? I hope we will have the answer to that in following
DD>episodes.

Consider the look on Londo's face - he didn't see anything, and he has a
dim understanding of _why_ he didn't see anything.

 * OLX 2.1 TD * Hello, I am part number ¦ºÞº¦º¦Û¦ºÝ¦ºÝ¦¦

--- FLAME v1.0
 * Origin: Withouta Net - Drop In Anytime! - 617/846-5416 (1:101/230)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 73 of 300
 From : Mark Holtz                          1:203/1701      .cê 12 Hîÿ 95 23:59
 To   : All
 Subj : Upcoming Babylon Five Episodes
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
US Air Week      PCode Episode Title
-==============- -===- -=====================================================-
Nov  6-Nov 12 95 301   Matters of Honor
Nov 13-Nov 19 95 302   Convictions
Nov 20-Nov 26 95 303   A Day in the Strife
Nov 27-Dec  3 95 305   Passing Through Gethsemane
-                304   Voices of Authority
-                306   Dust to Dust
-                307   Exogenesis
-                308   Messages From Earth
-                309   Point Of No Return
-                310   Severed Dreams
-                311   Ceremonies of Light and Dark
-                312   A Late Delivery from Avalon
-                315   [Unknown]-Part 1
-                316   [Unknown]-Part 2
-                313   Sic Transit Vir

BABYLON 5: Episode Information and Spoilers

By David Strauss & Others (dstrauss@netcom.com, replayer@genie.com)

Season Three: I am become Death, the Destroyer of Worlds

  "The Babylon Project was our last, best hope for peace...it failed.  But in
  the year of the Shadow war, it became something greater...our last, best
  hope for victory. The year is 2260. The place: Babylon 5."

  -- Commander Susan Ivanova, Opening Narration, Season Three.

1. (301) Matters of Honor - Written by JMS. While an Earth official
investigates the mystery ship encountered by Lt. Keffer in hyperspace, Londo
learns more about the Shadow's plans for the Centari, and the consequences of
his bargins. Sheridan receives a new tool in the fight against the Shadows.
Action packed episode where Delenn gets her first action scenes. A new ranger,
named Marcus, is introduced as a recurring character. Captain Sheridan
received a new ship, a White Star, consisting of Vorlon and Minbari technology

2. (302) Convictions - Written by JMS. A series of bombings threaten the
station, and Ivanova calls on some unusual investigators to help solve the
mystery. Contains a nod to online fans in a conversation between Londo and
Lenier.

3. (303) A Day in the Strife - Written by JMS.  As Garibaldi tries to deal
with the increasingly powerful Nightwatch, an alien probe makes first contact
with the station. G'Kar tries to solidify his position among the Narn.  Londo
calls in the favor that Delenn owes him. Basically an episode in which
everything that can go wrong goes wrong.

4. (305) Passing Through Gethsemane - Written by JMS.  Lyta Alexander returns
to the station at Kosh's behest. Theo discovers that he may have a hidden
past.

5. (304) Voices of Authority - Written by JMS.  Ivanova and Marcus enlist
Draal's help to attempt to contact more of the First Ones.

6. (306) Dust to Dust - Written by JMS. An addictive drug spreads through the
station, prompting a factfinding visit by Bester. G'Kar reaches a turning
point. Walter Koenig guest stars as Bester. Kosh...we'll see him again outside
his suit in "Dust to Dust," but in a somewhat unconventional fashion....

7. (307) Exogenesis - Written by JMS. Marcus and Dr. Franklin combat an
invasion by parasitic aliens that attach themselves to humans.

8. (308) Messages From Earth - Written by JMS. Sheridan discovers a connection
between President Clark and a sinister figure, leading to a confrontation with
the Earth military. The Nightwatch attempt to take over the station.

9. (309) Point Of No Return - Majel Barrett plays Emperor Turhan's Third Wife,
Lady Morella, a prophetess and seer.

10. (310) Severed Dreams - Major Twist in Babylon series.

11. (311) Ceremonies Of Light and Dark - We find out more about the
relationship between Delenn and Lennier.

13&14. (315&316) [Unknown] - Sinclair arrives to try and bring Babylon 4
forward in time.

From JMS....

* There will be an Ivanova romance...but not necessarily with whom you might
  expect.
* Vir is *not* leaving the show. We're making some room for him to do his new
  sitcom; he's in episodes 3 and 5 so far, and more to come, of season 3.
* You'll be seeing more of Zack Allen.
* New characters: well, there's Marcus Cole, a Ranger assigned permanently to
  Babylon 5, played by British actor Jason Carter; we'll see Lyta Alexander
  more this year; and Theo...what can I say about Theo...well, perhaps better
  to let you see for yourself.
* We do plan to continue our practice of getting more ambitious each season;
  we saw virtually none of the homeworlds in year one; in year two we began to
  see more of Narn, and Centauri Prime, with some locations in the latter. We
  will continue to expand in each following year; in year three, we plan to
  show Minbar, more of Centauri Prime, the Narn homeworld, Earth and *maybe*
  the Vorlon homeworld, if I can figure out how to do it at this stage without
  totally imploding the show. New sets: yes, and we're creating situations in
  which we can see more of Earth, Mars, our other local planets, plus Narn,
  Centauri, Minbari and one other major world. As the Shadow War cranks into
  gear, you're going to need a place to meet in security and plan for it, so
  we're also building that. We'll see more of Draal's place on Epsilon 3.  And
  there's one other major set that we'll see in the first episode, and quite a
  bit thereafter. We'll see Minbar at least once in year three, perhaps more.
  We'll see more of the Epsilon 3 complex this coming season, yes.
* What's great is that this season, we haven't had one single episode on the
  level of War Prayer or Infection or Grail, some of our weaker first season
  eps.  The worst we've done is pretty darned good. What we're now working for
  in year three is that they're all better than that at their baseline rating.
  And so far, they're killer . . .  We're also doing some major EFX blow-outs
  of a type other than "they go into space and shoot stuff." Very interesting,
  creative, offbeat stuff.
* Never said the shadow war would be over in one year. Only that it wouldn't
  last three.
* What is the origin of the Human/Minbari connection? You'll find out this
  very season (year three), in no uncertain or ambiguous terms. You're
  assuming that the relationship you saw between Delenn and Sinclair was a
  romantic one. It was a close one, on her part in particular, but not based
  on romance.  We'll explain what that means in year three.
* Yes, the Rangers will play a more important part in year three, and
  Sinclair's part in it will be revealed.
--
David Strauss / dss2k@virginia.edu  <*>
Home Page: http://www.eskimo.com/~dstrauss/
Administrator, New York Islanders Mailing List
The Psi Corps is your friend.  Trust the Corps.

---
 * Origin: Deep Space Franchise (916) 721-1701 (1:203/1701)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 74 of 300
 From : Chris Carter                        1:105/290.23    .cê 12 Hîÿ 95 10:02
 To   : Frank Glover
 Subj : Space Rangers
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On (09 Nov 95) Frank Glover wrote to Mark Holtz...

 MH> Claudia Christian had a guest role in it?

 FG> She's also in a `Columbo' TV-movie on ABC as I write this....

Heh, I saw CC a couple of weeks ago while channel-surfing.  She was
a guest star on an episode of 'The A-Team.'  Ouch!

Chris - carter@teleport.com


... Reserved for Wicked Witch - violators will be toad.

--- PPoint 1.98
 * Origin: Grid Epsilon Coords. 105x290x23 (1:105/290.23)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 75 of 300
 From : Kay Shapero                         1:102/524       .cê 12 Hîÿ 95 18:17
 To   : David Reffitt
 Subj : Re: Vir Cotto
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Nov 11 07:55>, David Reffitt (1:280/341) wrote to Chris Ogniben:

 DR>I do see your point. Do you think that when Londo dies that Vir
 DR>might take his place?

After what he said to Morden?  :->  Somehow, I doubt it.

If you've seen Matters of Honor (the first third season episode, run last week)
you already know what's happened to Londo's place vis a vis the Shadows.  If
not, I suggest finding someone who taped it because a lot of it bears on what
you've been discussing.

And if you want to know and don't want to wait...

Spoiler Warning!!!!























Londo told Morden he wanted out, and Morden agreed so long as the Centauri limit
their conquests to a particular portion of the galaxy leaving the rest to his
associates.  By the end of the interview it is clear that all Londo's really
managed to do is write himself out of the loop because Morden's already had a
few words with Refa...  It's far too late for Londo to have any real effect on
the proceedings by merely bowing out.  The time for *that* passed long ago.


... My name is G'Kar.  You wrecked my planet.  Prepare to die!

--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 76 of 300
 From : Charles Halliburton                 1:163/256       .óá 11 Hîÿ 95 16:14
 To   : All
 Subj : X-files
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
      I think that the X-Files are starting to get booring. It's like they ran
out of ideas.  The episod with the guy who sucked the fat out of people had
like ten seconds of action.  Yesterday's episod wasn't bad, but it wasn't as
good as the one with Tooms.
      I would like to know what you think so leav me a message.

    SEE YA LATER

                   The truth is out there

--- Renegade v10-05 Exp
 * Origin: The Lone Butthead / Ottawa CANADA / 613-736-0042 (1:163/256)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 77 of 300
 From : Brandon Wolgast                     1:363/216       .cê 12 Hîÿ 95 16:41
 To   : All
 Subj : Foundation series?
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: HyperMail! v1.22 94-0049
Long ago (way back in my sophomore year of high school) I read about
half way through "Foundation" and never finished it. Just recently I was
at a book store and saw like five Foundation novels.  I'm a big sci-fi
fan but just never read these, so of course I want to. My question is,
what order do they go in?  I thought "Foundation" was the first one but
there is also a "Prelude to Foundation" among others, and unlike
for instance the Dune books it doesn't tell anywhere that I can see on
the books what order to read them in. So if someone could tell me what
order the Foundation books go in I would really appreciate it. Thanks a
lot.

---
 * OLX 2.1 TD * Hello, I am part number ||#||||#||#||#||

--- HyperMail 1.20
 * Origin: Data Systems Internat'l (407)292-8009 Call Today! (1:363/216)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 78 of 300
 From : Earl Green                          1:3822/1        .cê 12 Hîÿ 95 17:06
 To   : All
 Subj : LogBook web site delay
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Hey, gang...

   There has been a slight delay in the release of the latest LogBook
files to the LogBook web site.  I apologize for this, but as I have
explained to a couple of people already, it's an unavoidable delay.  I
hope to send the material off to Chris, who does the wonderful job of
maintaining the homepage, via snail mail late this coming week, and
hopefully the new material will appear around the 21st or so.  All I can
ask for is your patience in this matter.  Thanks.
       e  <-- Earl Green (earl.green@f1.n3822.z1.fidonet.org) 1:3822/1
       LogBook, LogBook Master Index & LogBook Online Newsletter Editor
---
 * SLMR 2.0 * LogBook: http://comp.uark.edu/~cbray/logbook/logbook.html

--- QScan/PCB v1.18b / 01-0162
 * Origin: Jackalope Junction 501-785-5381 Ft Smith AR (1:3822/1)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 79 of 300
 From : Kevin Ahearn                        1:109/104       .îí 13 Hîÿ 95 19:16
 To   : Brandon Wolgast
 Subj : Foundation series?
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 BW> Long ago (way back in my sophomore year of high school) I read about
 BW> half way through "Foundation" and never finished it. Just recently I was
 BW> at a book store and saw like five Foundation novels.  I'm a big sci-fi
 BW> fan but just never read these, so of course I want to. My question is,
 BW> what order do they go in?  I thought "Foundation" was the first one but
 BW> there is also a "Prelude to Foundation" among others, and unlike
 BW> for instance the Dune books it doesn't tell anywhere that I can see on
 BW> the books what order to read them in. So if someone could tell me what
 BW> order the Foundation books go in I would really appreciate it. Thanks a
 BW> lot.

Sure thing.  The stories, if read in "chronological" order, preoceed thusly:

Prelude to Foundation
Forward the Foundation
Foundation
Foundation and Empire
Second Foundation
Foundation's Edge
Foundation and Earth

Oddly enough, this is not the oreder in which the books were written.  The first
two books on the list were the last two written.

BTW, In either Foundation's Edge or Foundation and Earth (I forget which),
Asimov included a chronological list of stories which encompasses his
Foundation, Robot, ;and Empire stories.  You may want to check that out, too.

--Kevin

P.S.  It's a GREAT series.  I'm sure you'll like it.

"Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent."




--- Maximus/2 3.00
 * Origin: ShanErin (1:109/104)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 80 of 300
 From : David Johnston                      1:342/14        .îí 13 Hîÿ 95 10:36
 To   : Ml Sands
 Subj : In General
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
->       Another subject on this forum has been the legal/economic
-> status
-> of the invtroes on SAAB. I think that subject soured pretty fast. In
-> fact it seems monstrous that a few posts were rationalizing "good"
-> reasons for slavery.   slavery         SLAVERY

Only if you don't have a sense of perspective.  We were not discussing
the morality of slavery, but the practicality.  Nobody is going to use
slaves unless they can profit thereby.  That doesn't mean slavery isn't
reprehensible.

-> Even if these invitroes were no more human than Phillip Dick's
-> androids, that is still 100% more human than the person who would
-> presume to own ANY sentient entity; whether mechanical or genetically
-> engineered.

That's the funny thing about mechanical sentients.  It's difficult to
figure out the exact point at which they became sentient until they
rebel.  In any case, the idea that slavery is wrong doesn't come as a
newsflash.  It's just that in SAAB they have come up with new forms of
slavery that weren't recognised as such, and are now coming to realise,
once again that this is indeed still slavery and wrong by that token.

--- PCBoard (R) v15.21/100
 * Origin: Freddy's Place - Edm. AB - 28.8K (403) 456-4241 (1:342/14)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 81 of 300
 From : David Johnston                      1:342/14        .îí 13 Hîÿ 95 10:45
 To   : Ken Mayes
 Subj : Re: B5 -- Coincidence?
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
->       And I've heard the declarations from some quarters that Yamato
-> was a
-> simple rip of Star Wars. That is blatantly untrue as Yamato pre-dated
-> Star Wars by three years. Even Trek has lifted or coincidentally used
-> ideas which were first used in Yamato...one or two coincidences I
-> could write off but when show after show, Bab-5, Trek, Space, Star
-> Wars, continue to lift those plots and plo elements so consistently,
-> I start to wonder.

Hmm.  Yamato, I believe, is a story in which a World War II battleship
is salvaged and converted into a spaceship in order to go on a mission
to save the Earth from an alien menace.  Apart from "spaceship" and
"alien menace", these plot elements don't exactly ring a bell.  I tell
you something though.  If you came up with a capacious list of
similarites between Yamato and American SF shows, I'd be willing to bet
that for each one, I could find a matching example from American SF
prior to Yamato.

--- PCBoard (R) v15.21/100
 * Origin: Freddy's Place - Edm. AB - 28.8K (403) 456-4241 (1:342/14)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 82 of 300
 From : Tony Trujillo                       1:280/9         .òp 14 Hîÿ 95 03:09
 To   : Myra I Fox
 Subj : Re: Tom Holt
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE 1.11+
Hiya Myra! :^)

 MI> I think that "Guards! Guards!" was one of my favorites for some
 MI> reason... do you have one you especially liked?

I don't remember if I had asked you if you read MEN AT ARMS.
To date, it's my all time favorite DISCWORLD book.


... "Oh F***!," said Pooh, as the Helm of Chaotic Evil took affect.
--- Via Silver Xpress V4.02B03 SW01177
 * Origin: South of the River - Overland Park KS - (913)642-7907 V.* (1:280/9)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 83 of 300
 From : David Reffitt                       1:280/341       .îí 13 Hîÿ 95 08:28
 To   : Kay Shapero
 Subj : Re: Vir Cotto
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Yes, I did see it. Then from what you are saying, if Londo dies then there will
be no Centauri on Babylon 5 as representatives?

---
 * Origin: Beyond the Pale 913-384-1577 (1:280/341)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 84 of 300
 From : Gary Warren                         1:382/92        .òp 14 Hîÿ 95 10:43
 To   : All
 Subj : Spoiled Little Green Men
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: IMAIL-386 1.70+ PK32
 * Crossposted from: Fido: Star Trek: Deep Space Nine

-=> Quoting Tracy Hemenover to All <=-

 TH> spoiler!





 TH> (dum da dee)







 TH> (dee dee da dum)







 TH> (enough already)

 TH> Did Nurse Garland remind anyone else of Edith Keeler, only played
 TH> for laughs?  (Incidentally, the actress, Megan Gallagher, has been on
 TH> DS9 before, in the second season's "Invasive Procedures".  I've read
 TH> she's a Trek fan and a friend of Robert Picardo.)
 TH> A lot of tongue-in-cheek references.  Among the most memorable: the
 TH> picture of Sisko as Gabriel Bell; Nurse Garland's speech about
 TH> "exploring strange new worlds and new civilizations".  And Quark
 TH> having Morn run the bar in his absence--is that part of the future
 TH> glimpsed in "The Visitor" perhaps going to come true?


But were the nurse and her fiance' supposed to represent ANYBODY, either
in the fictional TREK universe or someone historical??  When the show
kept concentrating on them, esp. during her "strange new worlds" speech,
we thought the ep's writers were trying to tell us something.  WERE they??


glw


... "Benjamin, why is Kira talking to an invisible person called Al?"
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.20 [NR]
 * Origin:  Rendezvous!! 28.8_VFC Bastrop, Tx [512-303-1324] (1:382/92)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 85 of 300
 From : Robert Parson                       1:3822/1        .òp 14 Hîÿ 95 16:28
 To   : Brian Henderson
 Subj : RE: B5 VS. TREK, AGAIN.
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On 19 Oct 95 03:16pm, BRIAN HENDERSON wrote to THE RAVEN:

TR>> self-created image as a "poor struggling artist fighting with the st
TR>> about as far from the truth as "Disney's Pocahontas".  This man is a
TR>> *veteran* at manipulating PR;

 BH> Since when? Sheesh, Jack, do you just make this up? About the only
 BH> thing that has been claimed is that he is writing a story that is very
 BH> different than what is currently on. JMS does not profit in any way
 BH> when Star Trek gets bad ratings. JMS only looks good when *HIS OWN
 BH> SHOW* does well.

I think both of you are really overestimating the impact The Internet and
online services have right now.  Yes, it is "The Coming Thing" and yes there
are a lot of people online right now, but it represents less than five
percent of the U.S. population.  (I'm not pulling this figure from thin air.
This was in a survey a few weeks ago).  That five percent includes those
people who are online only to pick up personal mail and don't mess around in
message bases or newsgroups (which represents something like 50 percent of
the previous figure) and those people who only play games and also includes
some services known tendency to manipulate subscription numbers and also
includes those who are active in newsgroups but don't read the B5, ST or SF
areas.

There were probably more people who sampled Babylon 5 from seeing Jerry
(Garibaldi) Doyle on Breakfast Time on the FX network than those who were
influenced to watch it from reading posted messages.

Straczinski has for the most part promoted his show in a fairly subdued
fashion.  Although he isn't afraid of shameless plugs.  And he shouldn't be
afraid to do so.  This is HIS show, which he fought to get on the air and
continues to struggle to keep it on the air.

Sometimes he does criticize Trek, but usually it's from a true critical
standpoint, and not because he is trashing Trek.  Most (not all) of what I've
read of his criticisms of Trek have been outgrowths from what I would
consider unfair B5 bashing from Trek fans.  He's also said good things about
all the Trek series at one time or another, as well as X-Files, American
Gothic, Space: Above and Beyond and other shows.  He's also been critical of
B5 when he felt the show fell below his standards.

I think JMS online is a nifty thing, and more creators should be as easily
available as he is.  While I read his messages with great interest, I don't
allow them to influence me to a large degree.  He is no God.  Ultimately
what's important is what shows up on the TV screen.  If it's good stuff then
it's Good Stuff.  If it blows, well then, it blows.


Robert (tm)

... Brian, are you pondering what I'm pondering...?
 * Silver Xpress V4.3 SW23473

--- QScan/PCB v1.18b / 01-0162
 * Origin: Jackalope Junction 501-785-5381 Ft Smith AR (1:3822/1)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 86 of 300
 From : Bianca Wesslak                      1:132/152       .îí 13 Hîÿ 95 22:27
 To   : Chris Ogniben
 Subj : Re: Questions, But Are T
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
From a woman with an overactive imagination.

 CO> I don't find it possible that matter anti-matter reactor would
 CO> become a reality.. And, that our true future for space exploration
 CO> would be powered by such reactors.. I do see nuclear reactors to be
 CO> the main power for eletricity in space ships.  And, large tanks of fuel
 CO> to burn for the engines.

sorry to but in but i have to disagree.
1.  we will not be able to go very far on large tanks of fuel
2.  Nuclear power is extremely dangerous, and it kinda leaves radiation
behind.
3.  this is the future, why limit it?  Most sci-fi stuff is omens of what
is to come, even if it may take centuries.  Look at the guy who wrote
20,000 leagues under the sea.  nuclear subs, and periscopes hadn't been
invented yet.  Besides if nothing else it gives the inventors something to
dream about, with them dreaming and trying to come up with it, and getting
some rough ideas it just might come into being.



... Science Fiction: The cutting edge of reality!
--- Blue Wave v2.12 [NR]
 * Origin: The Cereal Port BBS (OS/2) Rindge,NH 603-899-3335 (1:132/152)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 87 of 300
 From : John Arnold                         3:632/103       .ÿò 10 Hîÿ 95 16:09
 To   : All
 Subj : 24 Hour SF
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Hi All,
       Well its nearly that time again.

The Next 24 hour sci-fi marathon at the Valhalla is on the 9TH of Dec.

07:00 The BBQ breakfast starts

07:30 Village Of The Damned  (John Carpenter's version)

09:20 Sleeper

11:05 Blade Runner

13:20 Waterworld

15:50 Terminator 2

18:10 Dinner break  no hot food allowed in the cinerma.

18:45 Apollo 13

21:30 Judge Dredd

23:25 Species

01:25 War Of The Worlds

03:05 The Abyss

06:00 The Day The Earth Stood Still

Prices are $23 con. & $30 full for the lot.

The calendar says the final program is yet to be confirmed and to
check the paper around the 9Th in case of changes.

BFN,
    John.


--- Maximus/2 3.00
 * Origin: Decadence BBS (3:632/103)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 88 of 300
 From : Michael Harper                      1:123/10        .ÿò 10 Hîÿ 95 21:42
 To   : American Werewolf
 Subj : Doctor Who on FOX?
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Rumour has had it for some months now that Amblin is going to be doing the new
adventures of the Doctor, with Eric Idle in the lead. Problem is, like so much
of what H'Wood does, it's just balloon juice until it actually gets before the
cameras, and sometimes even then...

I've heard stories for years about Brian Blessed as the Doctor, Eric Idle,
Patrick Stewart, this actor, that actor... Christ, I heard somebody say that Mel
Gibson was up for the role! All I'm saying is, look for it when ya see it
comin'...
--- RA/FD/FMail
 * Origin: The Electric Fox - Memphis,TN, U.S.A.  1-901-327-1008 (1:123/10)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 89 of 300
 From : Michael Harper                      1:123/10        .ÿò 10 Hîÿ 95 21:49
 To   : Ken Mayes
 Subj : B5 -- Coincidence?
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 >         Maybe JMS in the last three seasons of B-5 will have
 > the station destroyed at the end of every season only to back
 > up and start again at the beginning of the next season
 > ignoring the previous season? Naw...he wouldn't do that.

This ain't DALLAS, dude... thank Ghod and Saint Joe...

But we've seen the station go out in a blaze of glory already, in Lady Ladira's
vision. The question is, when?

Sinclair's supposed to be back this season to go get Babylon 4... and if I
remember Mark Holtz' last post, there's a buncha other stuff that's gonna hit
this season...
--- RA/FD/FMail
 * Origin: The Electric Fox - Memphis,TN, U.S.A.  1-901-327-1008 (1:123/10)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 90 of 300
 From : Mark Holtz                          1:203/1701      .îí 13 Hîÿ 95 15:36
 To   : Paul Manson
 Subj : I NEED HELP FTP SITE
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
When Paul Manson typed to All, strange things happened, like....

 PM> I am looking for some good-hearted soul who has access to an Internet
 PM> FTP site or a WWW page who will keep current copies of Earl Green's
 PM> Logbook.

By the time you read this, they will be in the following site....

ftp://ftp.calweb.com/users/m/mholtz

... Clinton/Gore - Gone in Four.
--- Blue Wave/TG v2.21 [NR]
 * Origin: Deep Space Franchise (916) 721-1701 (1:203/1701.0)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 91 of 300
 From : Mark Holtz                          1:203/1701      .îí 13 Hîÿ 95 18:09
 To   : All
 Subj : Upcoming Babylon Five Episodes
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
US Air Week      PCode Episode Title
-==============- -===- -=====================================================-
Nov  6-Nov 12 95 301   Matters of Honor
Nov 13-Nov 19 95 302   Convictions
Nov 20-Nov 26 95 303   A Day in the Strife
Nov 27-Dec  3 95 305   Passing Through Gethsemane
-                304   Voices of Authority
-                306   Dust to Dust
-                307   Exogenesis
-                308   Messages From Earth
-                309   Point Of No Return
-                310   Severed Dreams
-                311   Ceremonies of Light and Dark
-                312   A Late Delivery from Avalon
-                315   [Unknown]-Part 1
-                316   [Unknown]-Part 2
-                313   Sic Transit Vir

BABYLON 5: Episode Information and Spoilers

By David Strauss & Others (dstrauss@netcom.com, replayer@genie.com)

Season Three: I am become Death, the Destroyer of Worlds

  "The Babylon Project was our last, best hope for peace...it failed.  But in
  the year of the Shadow war, it became something greater...our last, best
  hope for victory. The year is 2260. The place: Babylon 5."

  -- Commander Susan Ivanova, Opening Narration, Season Three.

1. (301) Matters of Honor - Written by JMS. While an Earth official
investigates the mystery ship encountered by Lt. Keffer in hyperspace, Londo
learns more about the Shadow's plans for the Centari, and the consequences of
his bargins. Sheridan receives a new tool in the fight against the Shadows.
Action packed episode where Delenn gets her first action scenes. A new ranger,
named Marcus, is introduced as a recurring character. Captain Sheridan
received a new ship, a White Star, consisting of Vorlon and Minbari technology

2. (302) Convictions - Written by JMS. A series of bombings threaten the
station, and Ivanova calls on some unusual investigators to help solve the
mystery. Contains a nod to online fans in a conversation between Londo and
Lenier.

3. (303) A Day in the Strife - Written by JMS.  As Garibaldi tries to deal
with the increasingly powerful Nightwatch, an alien probe makes first contact
with the station. G'Kar tries to solidify his position among the Narn.  Londo
calls in the favor that Delenn owes him. Basically an episode in which
everything that can go wrong goes wrong.

4. (305) Passing Through Gethsemane - Written by JMS.  Lyta Alexander returns
to the station at Kosh's behest. Theo discovers that he may have a hidden
past.

5. (304) Voices of Authority - Written by JMS.  Ivanova and Marcus enlist
Draal's help to attempt to contact more of the First Ones.

6. (306) Dust to Dust - Written by JMS. An addictive drug spreads through the
station, prompting a factfinding visit by Bester. G'Kar reaches a turning
point. Walter Koenig guest stars as Bester. Kosh...we'll see him again outside
his suit in "Dust to Dust," but in a somewhat unconventional fashion....

7. (307) Exogenesis - Written by JMS. Marcus and Dr. Franklin combat an
invasion by parasitic aliens that attach themselves to humans.

8. (308) Messages From Earth - Written by JMS. Sheridan discovers a connection
between President Clark and a sinister figure, leading to a confrontation with
the Earth military. The Nightwatch attempt to take over the station.

9. (309) Point Of No Return - Majel Barrett plays Emperor Turhan's Third Wife,
Lady Morella, a prophetess and seer.

10. (310) Severed Dreams - Major Twist in Babylon series.

11. (311) Ceremonies Of Light and Dark - We find out more about the
relationship between Delenn and Lennier.

13&14. (315&316) [Unknown] - Sinclair arrives to try and bring Babylon 4
forward in time.

From JMS....

* There will be an Ivanova romance...but not necessarily with whom you might
  expect.
* Vir is *not* leaving the show. We're making some room for him to do his new
  sitcom; he's in episodes 3 and 5 so far, and more to come, of season 3.
* You'll be seeing more of Zack Allen.
* New characters: well, there's Marcus Cole, a Ranger assigned permanently to
  Babylon 5, played by British actor Jason Carter; we'll see Lyta Alexander
  more this year; and Theo...what can I say about Theo...well, perhaps better
  to let you see for yourself.
* We do plan to continue our practice of getting more ambitious each season;
  we saw virtually none of the homeworlds in year one; in year two we began to
  see more of Narn, and Centauri Prime, with some locations in the latter. We
  will continue to expand in each following year; in year three, we plan to
  show Minbar, more of Centauri Prime, the Narn homeworld, Earth and *maybe*
  the Vorlon homeworld, if I can figure out how to do it at this stage without
  totally imploding the show. New sets: yes, and we're creating situations in
  which we can see more of Earth, Mars, our other local planets, plus Narn,
  Centauri, Minbari and one other major world. As the Shadow War cranks into
  gear, you're going to need a place to meet in security and plan for it, so
  we're also building that. We'll see more of Draal's place on Epsilon 3.  And
  there's one other major set that we'll see in the first episode, and quite a
  bit thereafter. We'll see Minbar at least once in year three, perhaps more.
  We'll see more of the Epsilon 3 complex this coming season, yes.
* What's great is that this season, we haven't had one single episode on the
  level of War Prayer or Infection or Grail, some of our weaker first season
  eps.  The worst we've done is pretty darned good. What we're now working for
  in year three is that they're all better than that at their baseline rating.
  And so far, they're killer . . .  We're also doing some major EFX blow-outs
  of a type other than "they go into space and shoot stuff." Very interesting,
  creative, offbeat stuff.
* Never said the shadow war would be over in one year. Only that it wouldn't
  last three.
* What is the origin of the Human/Minbari connection? You'll find out this
  very season (year three), in no uncertain or ambiguous terms. You're
  assuming that the relationship you saw between Delenn and Sinclair was a
  romantic one. It was a close one, on her part in particular, but not based
  on romance.  We'll explain what that means in year three.
* Yes, the Rangers will play a more important part in year three, and
  Sinclair's part in it will be revealed.
--
David Strauss / dss2k@virginia.edu  <*>
Home Page: http://www.eskimo.com/~dstrauss/
Administrator, New York Islanders Mailing List
The Psi Corps is your friend.  Trust the Corps.

--- MsgPost 1.1
 * Origin: Deep Space Franchise (916) 721-1701 (1:203/1701)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 92 of 300
 From : Chris Carter                        1:105/290.23    .òp 14 Hîÿ 95 04:05
 To   : All
 Subj : B5 vs. The Evil Midnight Bomber...
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
"We now return to the Ten O'Clock News, with anchorman Brian
Pinhead."

In tonight's entertainment segment our focus is on the popular
science fiction TV show, Babylon 5.  Sources inside Warner Brothers
have verified that dramatic changes are being made in what was to
be a soon-to-be-aired episode, due to infighting between the show's
creator, J. Michael Straczynski, and Ben Edlund, creator of 'The
Tick,' who was hired to co-write the upcoming episode with
Straczynski, as well as direct.  The episode, originally titled,
'Things That Make You Go Boom... Today!', was renamed to the less
suggestive 'Convictions' after a creative disagreement between the
two writers caused Straczynski to allegedly use his position as
Executive Producer to force Edlund off the project.  Airing of
'Convictions' will be delayed for several weeks as the episode must
be almost entirely reshot and edited, using a new script written
exclusively by Straczynski.

This station has obtained a videotape of the original version of
this episode, which was produced using a script penned primarily by
Mr. Edlund.  The Prime Time Entertainment Network has kindly
granted this station permission to broadcast some select scenes
from the tape, which should offer valuable insight into Edlund's
attempted contribution to the unfolding story arc of Babylon 5.

...

[pre-credits establishing scene -- An Earth transport is shown
entering the main docking bay.  Passengers disembark and are
queried by security personnel.  A small clock displays the current
time in the lower left corner of the screen, 1630 hours EST (Earth
Standard Time).]

Guard:  Sir, may I see your identicard, please?

Unidentified Human male:  And so he says to me, "Yeah baby, you're
the man with a jumpgate in your..." <pauses, looks around
furtively> uh, sure officer... <voice trails off to inaudible
mumbling -- hands the guard his identicard>

Guard <fiddles with identicard reader>:  Well Mr. 'Bomber', your ID
checks out.  Replacement electrician, eh?

Mr. 'Bomber':  Yeah baby, just a parttime electrician.  I mean,
don't cut the red wire, baby!  Better red than dead!
Haaaahahahahahahahaha...!!!

Guard:  Uh, right.  Well, you can go about your business, Mr
'Bomber'. <hands Mr. 'Bomber' his identicard>

[Mr. 'Bomber' takes his card and shuffles off toward the zocalo,
still mumbling to himself. -- pan back to the guard]

Guard:  Hmmm... Maybe I ought to report that guy to the Chief.
<pause> Naah... <turns to next person in line>  Ma'am, may I see
your...

[zoom out -- musical cue -- fade to black]

...

[somewhere in DownBelow -- time displayed on screen, 2017 hours
EST]

Ambassador Mollari:  So you're clear on the plan now, my *good*
*dear* friend, Mr. 'Bomber'?  Don't activate the bombs until
*after* I leave the council chamber, eh...?

Mr. 'Bomber':  Oooh yeah, baby, we're gonna make the ultimate
conference call.  Kiss your bulkheads goodbye, space cadets!

Mollari:  Good, so long as we understand one another, yes...?  And
I almost forgot, here is your payment.

Mr. 'Bomber':  <taking the pouch offered by Mollari> And so he says
to me, "You wanna buy Guy Fawkes Day, huh?"  And I say, "Penny for a
Guy?  You better believe it, you bunch of Jack Palance wannabees!
Hey parliament, conquer this!!!"

Mollari:  Of course, Mr. 'Bomber'.  And good day to you.

Mr. 'Bomber':  Keep playin' with fire, Londo!  You dunno how much
fire you're playin' with!  Haaaahahahahahahahaha...!!!

...

[Babylon 5 council chambers -- An emergency meeting of the Advisory
Council is in session. -- time displayed on screen, 2358 hours EST]

Sheridan:  Londo's been in the head a helluva long time now; nearly
ten minutes.

Delenn:  That's not unusual for a Centauri, I understand.

[sound of PPG firing -- Mr. 'Bomber' bursts into the council
chambers with a PPG in one hand and a device in the other, on which
he's flipping  a switch.  The seats belonging to the ambassadors of
the three of the four major species start chirping.]

Mr. 'Bomber':  Two minutes to Midnight, baby!  Two minutes 'til you
all suck vacuum!  Long live Rock'n'Roll!  You have all become
victims of The Evil Midnight Bomber What Bombs At Midnight!
Haaaahahahahahahahaha...!!!

[Sheridan tries to draw a PPG he doesn't carry with him to council,
then links to Garibaldi.  Ivanova bursts into the room through an
entrance opposite the Evil Midnight Bomber, jerks off one of her
shoes, throws, and hits the maniacally laughing Bomber in the head,
knocking him senseless.  Garibaldi appears from the entrance behind
the Bomber, scoops up the device the Bomber was holding and
examines it.]

Garibaldi:  Captain, this thing won't disarm the bombs.  We've got
to get them off the station before they blow.  And according to
this, we've only got a minute thirty left.

Sheridan <plucking bombs off the bottoms of seats>:  I need a bag
or something.  <to himself> Velcro.  This guy's pretty slick.

Delenn:  Here. <rips a section of robe away for a makeshift bomb
container>

[Sheridan puts the bombs in the bit of robe, secures the bundle,
and runs for the nearest airlock.  Once at an airlock, Sheridan
tosses the bundle inside, closes the inner pressure door, and opens
the outer pressure door without depressurizing the chamber, causing
the cluster of bombs to be violently ejected from the airlock.]

Sheridan:  Whew!  Just in time.

[exterior of station -- The bag with the bombs floats away from the
station rapidly.  Several hundred yards from the station, the bag
hits some debris recognizable as a cute teddy bear in a baseball
uniform.  The bear is carried along with the bombs for a few more
seconds; then, the bombs explode.  No bear remains can be seen once
the blast dissipates.]

...

Once again, our thanks to the Prime Time Entertainment Network for
allowing us to play those scenes for you.  Babylon 5 can be seen in
The City every Thursday night at eight o'clock p.m., on this
station.

In other entertainment news, romance novel cover-model Fabio is
arrested outside of one of Hollywood's hippest restaurants,
'Spago.'  The charge:  "Flagrant display of pectorals," according
to Police Chief Darryl Bates.  More on the bust after these
commercial messages.


Chris - carter@teleport.com


... This post came to you through the courtesy of the Eagle Hand Laundry.

--- PPoint 1.98
 * Origin: Grid Epsilon Coords. 105x290x23 (1:105/290.23)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 93 of 300
 From : Michael Harper                      1:123/10        .ÿò 10 Hîÿ 95 21:21
 To   : David Durgee
 Subj : B5: the fall of night
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 > I agree that the episode was well done. I was not surprised
 > in general at
 > Kosh's appearance, although they did ring in one unexpected
 > nuance for me.
 > I'm wondering about Londo's remark about seeing nothing. Was
 > he lying or
 > telling the truth? I hope we will have the answer to that in
 > following
 > episodes.

We will. The last spoiler data we got mentioned something about that.

I got spoilers off the Net about two months ago, so I knew what Kosh was
supposed to look like; I was still floored. And today I went back and watched
"Chrysalis", last season's finale, and they gave us hints out the wazoo in it!

Joe mentioned in the spoiler stuff that I have that Kosh would look different to
each race that saw him, and that Londo would see nothing, for reasons that will
be explored later.

He also said that just because we see this face of the Vorlons doesn't
necessarily mean it's the real thing; what we perceive isn't the reality. He's
fooling about with primal archetypes here, angels and devils... and this is
going to get awfully deep before the end of the season...
--- RA/FD/FMail
 * Origin: The Electric Fox - Memphis,TN, U.S.A.  1-901-327-1008 (1:123/10)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 94 of 300
 From : Michael Harper                      1:123/10        .ÿò 10 Hîÿ 95 21:32
 To   : Piotr W. Cholewa
 Subj : Silverberg
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 > I would also like to post a similar question: On what do you
 > base your opinion of Robert Silverberg? It may be well known
 > thing out there, but we know nothing of him here.

Silverberg's on my shit list because of his treatment of Walt Richmond's widow
at a Worldcon nearly twenty years ago. Leigh was being escorted by a friend, and
Silverberg insulted her repeatedly. When her escort asked Silverberg for an
apology, he was assaulted verbally and physically. The man I heard this from
would have no reason to lie; we've not been in contact in years, but I know him
to be honorable. He wouldn't make this up for the hell of it.

In defense of Silverberg, I can only assume that he was drunk as hell; most of
the people I've met who have had dealings with him say that he's fairly
gentlemanly. But his actions toward a grieving widow were unconscionable, and
I'll never have any respect for him because of it. He may have forgotten, but
Steve Jerkins and I haven't.
--- RA/FD/FMail
 * Origin: The Electric Fox - Memphis,TN, U.S.A.  1-901-327-1008 (1:123/10)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 95 of 300
 From : David Hilling                       1:262/32        .ÿò 10 Hîÿ 95 10:19
 To   : All
 Subj : Happy Birthday
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Birthday greetings (November 11) to Woodrow Wilson Smith (a.k.a Lazarus
Long, Captain Aaron Sheffield, Cpl. Ted Bronson, ad infinitum).

May you live as long as you wish and love as long as you live.

--- Renegade v10-05 Exp
 * Origin: The Gallifrey BBS * 614-867-2812,,77 * Zoom 28.8k (1:262/32)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 96 of 300
 From : Shawn Merrow                        1:3407/14       .òp 14 Hîÿ 95 01:17
 To   : Chris Ogniben
 Subj : Q Heading For Voyager
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

-> takers.. There might be a chance, that such an array would be able to
-> send them back.

Not likly the show would end. The Maqui crew members would go to prison.
And the Starfleet crew would probaly spend a year in debriefing.

--- QScan/PCB v1.16b / 01-0024
 * Origin:  (1:3407/14)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 97 of 300
 From : Shawn Merrow                        1:3407/14       .òp 14 Hîÿ 95 01:27
 To   : Jon Helis
 Subj : Re: B5: the fall of night
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

-> A theory I subscribe to is that he's been so engulfed by the
-> darkness off dealing with the Shadows that he can't see the
-> light side.  Anyone else have an opinion?

Sounds right to me. Since that was what I thought to.

--- QScan/PCB v1.16b / 01-0024
 * Origin:  (1:3407/14)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 98 of 300
 From : Starwolf                            1:163/214       .cê 12 Hîÿ 95 20:29
 To   : Frank Glover
 Subj : Simulscreen?
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On the same EVENING, I caught THE MEDUSA TOUCH and THE FURY, one right after the
other by dint of running like crazy the four blocks between the cinemas which
were showing them at the same time.  There was about fifteen minutes between the
two films so I caught the early showing of the one and late showing of the
latter.

What I can't understand was why THE FURY stuck around for a couple of months
while THE MEDUSA TOUCH only lasted a week.  The latter was a far superior film.


--- Maximus 2.01wb
 * Origin: Land of Ill Repute (1:163/214)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 99 of 300
 From : Marc Zingarelli                     1:226/110       .òp 14 Hîÿ 95 09:26
 To   : The Raven
 Subj : Highlander:  New Season
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12  92-0004
THE RAVEN was overheard talking in "Joe's" about Highlander:  New Season
and said:

TR>     Okay, the rumor is this:  one of the major supporting characters is
TR>supposed to kick the bucket this season.  The big money is leaning toward
TR>Amanda.  Let me restate that I have no solid confirmation on this.

Now that's depressing!!! Let's hope not.  The season seems to be going
pretty good this year and I must say I'm impressed.  Any word on renewal
yet?

Later

Marc
Internet:  marc.zingarelli@tcr.com

---
 * OLXWin 1.00a * 82d Airborne: when it abosulutely has to be invaded overnight

--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12
 * Origin: The Computer Room-Pickerington, Oh (614)861-8377  (1:226/110.0)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 100 of 300
 From : Steven Wesen                        1:271/236       .òp 14 Hîÿ 95 08:13
 To   : Frank Glover
 Subj : Re: Star Wars I
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE 1.11+
But the Black Hole had already been open for several weeks and was not opening
at the same time as Star Trek the motion picture.

With the icrease in ticket prices and the need for producers to see a big box
office opening for survival things have change for Star Wars fans
If they do not set box office records then they may reconcider this epic and
make it a Prequel.

--- GEcho 1.11+
 * Origin: THE TIME MACHINE (804)599-6401 TRAVEL THE PORTALS! (1:271/236)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 101 of 300
 From : Steven Wesen                        1:271/236       .òp 14 Hîÿ 95 08:14
 To   : J.T. Smith
 Subj : Re: Space Rangers
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE 1.11+
The show was not bad but it still could not draw in the people.

--- GEcho 1.11+
 * Origin: THE TIME MACHINE (804)599-6401 TRAVEL THE PORTALS! (1:271/236)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 102 of 300
 From : Starwolf                            1:163/214       .îí 13 Hîÿ 95 12:27
 To   : Charles Halliburton
 Subj : X-files
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
I don't think they've run out of ideas - yet.  My problem is that, of late, I
don't see them as being as good when Skinner or the Cigarette Smoking Man aren't
featured.  The background plots have becomes one of my favourite bits to the
show.  On the other hand, I can also appreciate how these might become tiresome
of overused if the writers aren't careful.

In any event it is still much better than most out there.


--- Maximus 2.01wb
 * Origin: Land of Ill Repute (1:163/214)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 103 of 300
 From : Boris CDuke                         2:463/2.22      .cê 19 Hîÿ 95 10:33
 To   : All
 Subj : Eurocon'96
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Hi All!

Subj will take from April 25 to 28, 1996 in Vilnius, the capital of Lithuania.
Attending fee - 10 bucks or 15 at the door. Info - from me.

Bestest, Boris

 * Origin: Imagineering (2:463/2.22)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 104 of 300
 From : Stephen Burkholder                  1:282/108       .pä 15 Hîÿ 95 10:25
 To   : All
 Subj : Darrel k sweet
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12  91-0224
Does anyone know how I could get a hold of some of darrel k sweets
artwork? he does mostly sci-fi book covers.

--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12
 * Origin: City Lights <612-633-1366> <12 LINES> <28.8 D/S>  (1:282/108.0)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 105 of 300
 From : Steve Martin                        1:271/285       .òp 14 Hîÿ 95 20:26
 To   : Charles Halliburton
 Subj : X-files
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Big Brother caught Charles Halliburton & All crimespeaking about
X-files.

 CH> I think that the X-Files are starting to get booring. It's like
 CH> they ran out of ideas.  The episod with the guy who sucked the fat out
 CH> of people had  like ten seconds of action.  Yesterday's episod wasn't
 CH> bad, but it wasn't as  good as the one with Tooms.

I wouldn't say they've gotten boring.  There were logical flaws in the
"fat vampire" episode, but it wasn't boring.  Same with the recent one
at the Vets hospital.


... Money is a good servant, but a bad master.
--- GEcho 1.00
 * Origin: From Trekkies & from B5ers who hate Trek save us! (1:271/285.0)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 106 of 300
 From : Richard Hudson                      1:141/450       .îí 13 Hîÿ 95 20:06
 To   : Tony Trujillo
 Subj : Re: Bat villains
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
===========================================================================
 BBS: The Pleasure Palace BBS
Date: 11-10-95 (06:51)             Number: 1626
From: TONY TRUJILLO                Refer#: NONE
  To: ANNE HARDCASTLE               Recvd: NO
Subj: Re: Bat villains               Conf: (9) Sffan
___------------------------------------------------------------------------

TT> AH> Well Robin has some of the best lines ever in TAS.

TT>I really need to find out when the show is on in our area.

TT>BTW: Speaking of animated shows, have you seen FREAKAZOID?
TT>It's from the same folks you brought you TINY TOONS and
TT>ANIMANIACS....and it's quite fun/insane!

TT> AH> What is your favorite Joker episode?  I think mine may have
TT> AH> to be The Joker's Christmas.  It is so funny I just cried
TT> AH> and cried.

TT>Crumbs...I don't think I remember seeing that one. One of my
TT>favorites was one of the first JOKER stories I saw....where
TT>The Joker wanted to copyright his likeness.


TT>... Don't crush that dwarf! Hand me the pliers!
TT>--- Via Silver Xpress V4.02B03 SW01177
TT> * Origin: South of the River - Overland Park KS - (913)642-7907 V.* (1:280/

My favorite joker episode Almost Got Him. Even though it featured most
of Batman's greatest foes, the  Joker's portion of the eps was the
funnest and the most interesting of them all.

Richard Hudson
___
 * SLMR 2.0 * "Look there's Okuda" "Fire 500 photon torpedoes" Trek fwe

--- Maximus 3.00
 * Origin: The Pleasure Palace BBS (1:141/450)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 107 of 300
 From : Richard Hudson                      1:141/450       .îí 13 Hîÿ 95 20:09
 To   : David Johnston
 Subj : Quickening Effects
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
===========================================================================
 BBS: The Pleasure Palace BBS
Date: 11-08-95 (00:15)             Number: 1632
From: DAVID JOHNSTON               Refer#: 1627
  To: ANTHONY VAN DEYL              Recvd: NO
Subj: Quickening Effects             Conf: (9) Sffan
___------------------------------------------------------------------------

DJ>-> is it explained why the character is DUNCAN macleod and not CONNER?
DJ>-> anmd why is duncan the highlander, i thought conner was...

DJ>It's so they could have Connor Mcleod appear on the show to boost the
DJ>ratings for the pilot.  (Something I wish they hadn't done.)

Nope It's because Christopher Lambert refused to play Conner in the
series and demanded so much money that they could only afford to have
him in that episode

Richard Hudson

DJ>--- PCBoard (R) v15.21/100
DJ> * Origin: Freddy's Place - Edm. AB - 28.8K (403) 456-4241 (1:342/14)

___
 * SLMR 2.0 * "There can be only One, Highlander" The Kurgan

--- Maximus 3.00
 * Origin: The Pleasure Palace BBS (1:141/450)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 108 of 300
 From : Kevin Larson                        1:350/33        .òp 14 Hîÿ 95 02:03
 To   : The Raven
 Subj : War!
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

TR> KL> Ya Its called *GREAD* !!

TR>     But its spelled *GREED* !!

TR>     Jack Butler


So I'm a lousy speller So sue me!!!




                                                 *KnighT*
___
 * CMPQwk #1.42 * UNREGISTERED EVALUATION COPY

--- Maximus 2.02
 * Origin: The PYRAMID bbs (1:350/33)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 109 of 300
 From : Owen E. Oulton                      1:243/45        .òp 14 Hîÿ 95 17:59
 To   : Brian Henderson
 Subj : B5 Vs St
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

KA> Matter/anti-matter was being used on FEDERATION starships
KA> 70 years before TNG/DS9.  DS9, remember, was originally a
KA> Cardassian station.  It was never stated just how old the
KA> station is, but it's possible that it was built by the
KA> Cardassians before they had access to matter/anti-matter
KA> technology.

 BH> And we're supposed to believe that the Federation didn't update the
 BH> station? Anyhow, it isn't like matter/anti-matter is all that hard to
 BH> achieve or use (we can make it on a limited basis today) so for the
 BH> Cardassians, Klingons, whatever not to have it several hundred years in
 BH> the future is ludicrous.

Yes, they updated the station to conform to Federation operational standards,
that has been specifically ststed in the series, as has tha age of the station
(about 20 years).  Cardassians and Klingons do, indeed, have M/AM technology,
but you just don't need *that* much power to run the station.  Hell, even the
Enterprise-D used fusion plants to power its Impulse drive, so fusion isn't
exactly an obsolete energy source.  And yes, DS9 would appear to have some
antimatter supply, at least enough to keep the Runabouts and Defiant fueled, and
to arm 5000 Photorps, which on its own would take 7500kg of antideuterium.
Replacing the Cardie fusion reactors or computers with Federation ones would
take the station off-line for an unacceptable amount of time, and for no
discernable benefit.  The Cardassian technology has been shown to be the equal
of Federation tech.

CFN, O

--- Maximus 2.01wb
 * Origin: Pandora's Box, Ottawa, Ont. 613-829-1209 (1:243/45)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 110 of 300
 From : Frank Swarbrick                     1:104/825       .îí 13 Hîÿ 95 19:20
 To   : Charles Halliburton
 Subj : X-files
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12  92-0022
On 11-11-95  16:14 Ambassador Charles Halliburton of the Minbari Federation sai
:

 CH> I think that the X-Files are starting to get booring. It's like
 CH> they ran
 CH> out of ideas.  The episod with the guy who sucked the fat out of
 CH> people had  like ten seconds of action.  Yesterday's episod wasn't bad,
 CH> but it wasn't as  good as the one with Tooms.
 CH> I would like to know what you think so leav me a message.

I have to agree, and it's very disappointing.  I liked the first two
episodes (parts 2 and 3 of the trilogy) and "Clyde Bruckman's Final
Repose" (the one with the psychic who could forsee how people would
die).  Other than that, they've been so-so to bad.  I haven't given up
yet, though.

But you're right, seeing "Squeeze" and "Tooms" the other day sure made
season 3 pale by comparison!

        Frank

... We Are Not Who We Are -- The X-Files
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12
 * Origin: The Bailey Information Exchange BBS, 28.8k v.fc  (1:104/825.0)

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 Msg  : 111 of 300
 From : Frank Swarbrick                     1:104/825       .îí 13 Hîÿ 95 21:14
 To   : All
 Subj : Nowhere Man - "crash"
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12  92-0022
Just curious if anyone else has noticed this, in almost every single
episode of Nowhere Man something made out of glass drops to the floor
and goes "crash."  I have no idea of the significance, and it may very
well just be a red herring, but I do find it interesting that they
almost always manage to have it happen at least once.

Comments?

        Frank

... Heaven is waiting and waiting is Hell.
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12
 * Origin: The Bailey Information Exchange BBS, 28.8k v.fc  (1:104/825.0)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 112 of 300
 From : David Johnston                      1:342/14        .òp 14 Hîÿ 95 10:07
 To   : Shawn Merrow
 Subj : Q Heading For Voyager
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
-> takers.. There might be a chance, that such an array would be able to
-> send them back.
-> Not likly the show would end. The Maqui crew members would go to
-> prison. And the Starfleet crew would probaly spend a year in
-> debriefing.

Since the Maquis crew were not Federation citizens and were not
operating within Federation boundaries, there would be no basis for
imprisoning them, unless the new Cardassian government cared about the
enemies of the old Cardassian government.  Actually it seems likely to
me that the Maquis are going to become their own little nation, given
that the Cardassians can no longer afford to be distracted by that litle
war with the Klingons pressing on their border.

--- PCBoard (R) v15.21/100
 * Origin: Freddy's Place - Edm. AB - 28.8K (403) 456-4241 (1:342/14)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 113 of 300
 From : Myra I Fox                          1:123/10        .òp 14 Hîÿ 95 12:49
 To   : J.T. Smith
 Subj : Tom Holt
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

-=>Quoting J.T. Smith to Myra I Fox<=-

 JS> I *LOVE* his stuff.  Flying Dutch was good.  Haven't seen Ye Gods
 JS> yet, but intend to look for it!

I liked "Ye Gods" even better.  Lots of funny lines in it.

 MIF> I just finished with "Good Omens" and "Eric".  "Eric" was good just
 MIF> because it had Rincewind and the Luggage <g>.
 MIF> They had "Lords and Ladies" at Borders (checked it out last weekend)
 MIF> but I didn't have the money to buy it <sigh>.

 JS> Are these also Holt books??

No they are by another British humor/fantasy author named Terry
Pratchett.  I would predict if you like Tom Holt then you would like
his books too.




... A good bookshop is just a genteel Black Hole that knows how to read.
--- RA/FD/FMail
 * Origin: The Electric Fox - Memphis,TN, U.S.A.  1-901-327-1008 (1:123/10)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 114 of 300
 From : Myra I Fox                          1:123/10        .pä 15 Hîÿ 95 13:26
 To   : Tony Trujillo
 Subj : Tom Holt & PTerry
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

-=>Quoting Tony Trujillo to Myra I Fox<=-

 TT> I don't remember if I had asked you if you read MEN AT ARMS.
 TT> To date, it's my all time favorite DISCWORLD book.

That is one I have missed... I'll keep looking for it though.  I read
"Good Omens" not long ago and it was funny.  And I just read "Eric",
found it when I was checking out the new bookstore/coffee bar in town
called Borders.

While I love visiting new bookstores and it was really impressive,
I think I'll take the little, locally owned Deliberate Literate as
a favorite place to browse and have an espresso.


... Haven't you ever seen a dragon being arrested before?"<Capt Vimes>
--- RA/FD/FMail
 * Origin: The Electric Fox - Memphis,TN, U.S.A.  1-901-327-1008 (1:123/10)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 115 of 300
 From : Owen E. Oulton                      1:243/45        .pä 15 Hîÿ 95 15:02
 To   : Kevin Ahearn
 Subj : Foundation series?
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 KA> Sure thing.  The stories, if read in "chronological" order, preoceed
 KA> thusly:

 KA> Prelude to Foundation
 KA> Forward the Foundation
 KA> Foundation
 KA> Foundation and Empire
 KA> Second Foundation
 KA> Foundation's Edge
 KA> Foundation and Earth

 KA> Oddly enough, this is not the order in which the books were written.  The
 KA> first two books on the list were the last two written.

True.  Indeed, the original (and, to my mind, only worthwhile) Foundation books,
Foundation, Foundation And Empire and Second Foundation were written in the
early 1940, and all the others produced over 40 years later, in what I believe
to be a misguided attempt to join up the Foundation and Robots series.  I find
that they add nothing to the grand vision of the originals, and indeed take away
from them in many cases.

CFN, O

--- Maximus 2.01wb
 * Origin: Pandora's Box, Ottawa, Ont. 613-829-1209 (1:243/45)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 116 of 300
 From : Owen E. Oulton                      1:243/45        .pä 15 Hîÿ 95 15:08
 To   : John Arnold
 Subj : 24 Hour SF
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 JA> Hi All,
 JA>        Well its nearly that time again.
 JA> The Next 24 hour sci-fi marathon at the Valhalla is on the 9TH of Dec.

<snip, snip>

 JA> --- Maximus/2 3.00
 JA>  * Origin: Decadence BBS (3:632/103)

Hmmm...  Zone 3 --- Australia...  Nope can't make it.

John, two words: International Echo.

CFN, O

--- Maximus 2.01wb
 * Origin: Pandora's Box, Ottawa, Ont. 613-829-1209 (1:243/45)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 117 of 300
 From : Chris Carter                        1:105/290.23    .pä 15 Hîÿ 95 07:28
 To   : Derek Wakefield
 Subj : B5 -- Coincidence?
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On (12 Nov 95) Derek Wakefield wrote to Chris Carter...

 DW> I seem to remember George Lucas saying the same thing, yet
 DW> there are still numerous reports that exist to this day
 DW> stating that he was in Japan around the time that Yamato I
 DW> first aired.  Then when Lucas sued Larson for ripping off Star
 DW> Wars with Galactica, Larson asked Nishizaki for a letter
 DW> stating that it was Yamato that Galactica attempted to
 DW> emulate...not SW (this came out in an interview with Nishizaki
 DW> in a national Anime magazine article earlier this year).

While this is certainly very interesting, what does it have to do
with JMS saying he hasn't seen any/much anime?  Were George and Joe
siamese twins at the time that George went to Japan?

Your basic premise is that folks most commonly lift plots from
contemporary material.  This premise cannot be adequately proven in
most instances, and I would imagine cannot be proven where B5 is
involved.

Parallel development: yeah, I believe that.  Limited number of
basic, epic style plots to work with: yeah, I believe that.
Everybody's mimicing anime: sorry, I'm not convinced, nor will I
ever likely be.

Chris - carter@teleport.com


... "So simple, even a child prodigy can operate it."

--- PPoint 1.98
 * Origin: Grid Epsilon Coords. 105x290x23 (1:105/290.23)

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 Msg  : 118 of 300
 From : Chris Carter                        1:105/290.23    .pä 15 Hîÿ 95 07:35
 To   : Ken Mayes
 Subj : B5 -- Coincidence?
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On (12 Nov 95) Ken Mayes wrote to Chris Carter...

 KM> ...one or two coincidences I could write off but when show
 KM> after show, Bab-5, Trek, Space, Star Wars, continue to lift
 KM> those plots and plot elements so consistently, I start to
 KM> wonder.

And none of those plots or plot elements *pre-date* anime?  No,
clearly anime invented all which is good in epic SF these days.

Funny, I remember hearing the exact same argument applied to Star
Trek.

Chris - carter@teleport.com


... Surrender, or be blown into 17,670,002 Microcells.

--- PPoint 1.98
 * Origin: Grid Epsilon Coords. 105x290x23 (1:105/290.23)

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 Msg  : 119 of 300
 From : Chris Carter                        1:105/290.23    .pä 15 Hîÿ 95 07:38
 To   : All
 Subj : JMS on plagiarism
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
To followup those two messages about lifting from anime that I just
posted, here are two very recent messages from JMS.  These were
posted to rec.arts.sf.tv.babylon5 on Usenet after yet more clue-void
people posted junk about how JMS is rewriting Lord of the Rings, and
various other books.

[begin text import]

From: straczynski@genie.geis.com
Date: 1995/10/30
Subject: ATTN JMS:The Quintara Marathon
newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.tv.babylon5

     No, I've never read them.  "I am wondering if they had any relation
to B5."  No, because that is called plagiarism.

     I'm not yelling at you, James, I'm just taking a moment here to make
a general comment.

     Ahem.  To everyone looking on.

     STOP ASKING ME IF I AM DOING ONE BOOK OR ANOTHER BY ANOTHER WRITER.

     That is called plagiarism.  It's called theft.  It's not a question
that novel writers get, only TV writers.  I know that's not your intent,
but that's what it is.  I didn't fight for five years to make this show to
do somebody else's story.  This is its own story.  Nobody else's.  It may
not occur to you -- likely does not -- but this is a *supremely* offensive
comment to any writer.  It implies that one cannot come up with one's own
story, one has to borrow or rip off from somebody else...again, a comment
usually directed toward TV writers.  I've never seen a novelist asked if
he was doing somebody else's novel.

     I may sometimes nod in tribute to those works that have come before,
but that's all it ever is.

                                                                   jms


From: straczynski@genie.geis.com
Date: 1995/10/30
Subject: Re: Attn Jms: More PKD in B5,
newsgroups: rec.arts.sf.tv.babylon5

     Okay, I've just read a bunch more of these...okay, I admit it, you
got me...I'm doing Philip K. Dick right down the line...and I'm also
doing George Orwell right down the line...and I'm doing Lord of the
Rings beat for beat...and Chalker...and...and Cherryh...and I'm doing
a variation on the Bible, and King Arthur, and the history of Babylon,
and the Idylls of the King....

     What?  What's that you say?  You can't be doing all of these right
down the line, all at the same time?  Sure I can.  Because there IS no
B5.  There's a blank signal that registers in your brain, triggering the
last thing you read, or the most important thing you read.  It's a
carefully rigged US Government psychological warfare experiment.

     I give up.

                                                                jms


[end text import]

Chris - carter@teleport.com


... Phlogiston - the secret ingredient in Flames

--- PPoint 1.98
 * Origin: Grid Epsilon Coords. 105x290x23 (1:105/290.23)

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 Msg  : 120 of 300
 From : Karmin St.Jean                      1:321/325       .åò 09 Hîÿ 95 16:51
 To   : Shawn Merrow
 Subj : Q HEADING FOR VOYAGER
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

SM>If Q bring Riker to tesitfy for him and Riker testomny dams him. Wont
SM>this leave a opening for him to be stranded on Voyager. This dosent
SM>sound good "Sorry Chakotay youre a criminal he is a Starfleet commander
SM>youre fired." Though it would be intersting to find out how the crew
SM>reacts to whats going on in the alpha quadrent (Cardassin goverment
SM>overthrown etc.).

Shawn,
Perhaps with everyone in the Continuum except Amanda Rogers (and very
probably Trellane) named Q, you are mildly confused about this trial. It
is not our Q (nor Q2 (Corbin Bernsen)) who is being tried. It is another
Q, (played by Gerritt Graham (can we say "Stan Putterman", boys and
girls?)) who is going to be on trial when he requests asylum so he can
kill himself (if he gets to become human, how much you want to bet that
dear ol' Captain Janeway tries to force him to not take his own life. If
he does get permission to end it all, will they have a holo-Kevorkian
assist him?) because he's tired of immortality because he's utterly
bored. (He should go chasing after his little brother for a bit. That
would keep him from being bored. If this new Q wants to die so badly all
he has to do is take credit somewhere for something our Q did and sooner
or later someone'll show up to kill him!

 * SLMR 2.1a * Tribble + Q = Energizer Bunny

--- PCBoard (R) v15.22 (OS/2) 10
 * Origin:  * Boston Gas BBS * 413-539-9834 * gas.com * Node10 * (1:321/325)

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 Msg  : 121 of 300
 From : Jo De Man                           2:291/1102.10   .óá 11 Hîÿ 95 10:27
 To   : Star Hawk
 Subj : Weber
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Hallo Star!

05 Nov 95, Star Hawk writes to Jo De Man:

 SH> From my perch I saw this come out of the gravity well from Jo De Man:
 [>> Jo De Man [> Any David Weber fans out there ?

He's one of the few authors who can describe space combat so visually that it's
like watching a movie...

 SH>      Rabid fan here!  Met him this summer and found him to be a man i
 SH> could see eye-to-eye with on most subjects.  He also tells a good
 SH> tale
 SH> in person.

Met the guy .. waw ;
If you don't mind my asking, how did that happen ? Talk about anything
interesting ?

 tell me if I've missed any books (kind of hard to get a hold of them in
Belgium)
-Insurrection
-Oath of swords (hope he writes a sequel to that one)
-muteneers' Moon & armageddon inheritance (gimme more!)
-path of the fury (!)
-crusade
-Honor harrington on basilisk station
                  honor of the queen
                  short victorious war
                  field of dishonor
                  flag in exile

Any new ones forthcoming ?

Live long and prosper,

Jo De Man

... Yer motherboard wears combat reboots !
--- FMail/386 1.02
 * Origin: Space for rent (2:291/1102.10)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 122 of 300
 From : Tommy Kellerman                     2:205/356       .pä 15 Hîÿ 95 01:31
 To   : Jo De Man
 Subj : Species
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
In a message dated 06-Nov-95 19:57:00, Jo De Man wrote:

 JDM> Hallo Tommy!

      Yo Jo...

 TK> Does anyone out there know anything about this movie called "Species"

 JDM> I haven't sen it but from what I hear on Fidonet you wouldn't want to...

    What have you heard about it ? In European MTV it won't go a single day
without at least ten screenflashes, but UK always get ahead on us at the movie
part.


 JDM> Live long and prosper,

U2! CU...

Tommy K.  /// -NoLimit BBS- \\\

--- Xenolink 1.0 Z.3, EmacsXL.4
 * Origin: NoLimit, Furudal +46-258-20010 (2:205/356)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 123 of 300
 From : Anne Hardcastle                     1:393/7         .pä 15 Hîÿ 95 21:59
 To   : Charles Halliburton
 Subj : Re: X-files
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Well they have not returned to any government/FBI stuff since the season openers
and I think this parade of freaks is getting old.  You can really see with these
re-runs that one of the shows major pluses is the relationship between Mulder
and Scully (which has been pretty strictly avoided since premier) and the whole
government involvement which is always great.

I think that they may have written themselves into a bit of a hole that will
take real work to get out of.  But seeing the dynamic duo back at headquarters
would be very cool.  Also, I love seeing "other" FBI guys and their attitude
towards x-files and Mulder, etc.  That was very interesting in the first Tooms
episode.

I still like the episodes we have seen and think it is the number one best show
on tv these days.
--- CNet/3
 * Origin: The Bard's Tavern Denton, TX (817)243-5110 USR 28.8   (1:393/7)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 124 of 300
 From : David Johnston                      1:342/14        .pä 15 Hîÿ 95 11:42
 To   : Gary Warren
 Subj : Spoiled Little Green Men
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
-> But were the nurse and her fiance' supposed to represent ANYBODY,
-> either in the fictional TREK universe or someone historical??  When
-> the show kept concentrating on them, esp. during her "strange new
-> worlds" speech, we thought the ep's writers were trying to tell us
-> something.  WERE they??

A big deal was made about allegedly vanishing nurses at Roswell.  More
to the point however, the two lovebirds were just standard lead
characters from a 1950s science fiction movie, and thus deserved a lot
of attention.

--- PCBoard (R) v15.21/100
 * Origin: Freddy's Place - Edm. AB - 28.8K (403) 456-4241 (1:342/14)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 125 of 300
 From : Frank Swarbrick                     1:104/825       .òp 14 Hîÿ 95 20:08
 To   : All
 Subj : The Invaders
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12  92-0022
I'm sitting here watching The Invaders (the new mini-series) and was
wondering if anyone else finds it as boring as I do.  Unbelievable!
Not to mention bad acting, cliched writing, and a plot that really
makes no sense. I never saw the series, but I bet it was much better
than this.  Sheesh, very disappointing.

        Frank

... ALL DONE - BYE BYE!
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12
 * Origin: The Bailey Information Exchange BBS, 28.8k v.fc  (1:104/825.0)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 126 of 300
 From : Frank Swarbrick                     1:104/825       .òp 14 Hîÿ 95 20:15
 To   : Brandon Wolgast
 Subj : Foundation series?
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12  92-0022
On 11-12-95  16:41 Ambassador Brandon Wolgast of the Minbari Federation said:

 BW> Long ago (way back in my sophomore year of high school) I read about
 BW> half way through "Foundation" and never finished it. Just recently I
 BW> was at a book store and saw like five Foundation novels.  I'm a big
 BW> sci-fi fan but just never read these, so of course I want to. My
 BW> question is, what order do they go in?  I thought "Foundation" was the
 BW> first one but there is also a "Prelude to Foundation" among others, and
 BW> unlike for instance the Dune books it doesn't tell anywhere that I can
 BW> see on the books what order to read them in. So if someone could tell
 BW> me what order the Foundation books go in I would really appreciate it.
 BW> Thanks a lot.

I'm sure someone will give you the correct answer, but anyway...
Something I always do is check the original copyright date, and read
it in that order.  This way you'll read them in the order they were
published, even though in this case I think _Forward the Foundation_
was the last one written.

        Frank

... There's someone in my head, but it's not me.
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12
 * Origin: The Bailey Information Exchange BBS, 28.8k v.fc  (1:104/825.0)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 127 of 300
 From : Ken Mayes                           1:393/7         .åò 16 Hîÿ 95 16:59
 To   : Chris Carter
 Subj : Re: B5 -- Coincidence?
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On Thu 16-Nov-1995  7:08a, Chris Carter wrote:

CC> And none of those plots or plot elements *pre-date* anime?  No,
CC> clearly anime invented all which is good in epic SF these days.

CC> Funny, I remember hearing the exact same argument applied to Star
CC> Trek.


        I never claimed that Yamato invented all which is good in Epic SF. All I
said was that several plot elements which were used in several prominant science
fiction series and movies turned up there previously.


--- CNet/3
 * Origin: The Bard's Tavern Denton, TX (817)243-5110 USR 28.8   (1:393/7)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 128 of 300
 From : Ken Mayes                           1:393/7         .åò 16 Hîÿ 95 17:28
 To   : David Johnston
 Subj : Re: B5 -- Coincidence?
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On Wed 15-Nov-1995  3:49a, David Johnston wrote:

DJ> Hmm.  Yamato, I believe, is a story in which a World War II battleship
DJ> is salvaged and converted into a spaceship in order to go on a mission
DJ> to save the Earth from an alien menace.  Apart from "spaceship" and
DJ> "alien menace", these plot elements don't exactly ring a bell.

        The basic plot from the first serial of Yamato was a recreation of
"Jason and the Argonaughts". The story was so recognizable that in the British
version Susumo Kodai was given the name Jason Kodai. In the American version he
was called Derek Wildstar but the ship had it's name changed from Yamato to
Argo.
        The similarities to Star Wars came in beginning with the classical
character archtypes used.
        Avatar = Obiwan Kenobie
        Wildstar = Luke Skywalker (although his personality more closely matched
Han Solo.
        Venture = Han Solo
        Nova = Princess Lea

        And then the methods of space combat used bore a striking ressemblance.
Large laser gun turrets mounted on huge rumbling starships accompanied by tiny
one man fighters. Prior to Star Wars and Yamato I don't recall any other series
of filmed SF using those elements. Perhaps they did exist in print but I'm not
aware of them. (I'm open to education here)



  I tell

DJ> you something though.  If you came up with a capacious list of
DJ> similarites between Yamato and American SF shows, I'd be willing to bet
DJ> that for each one, I could find a matching example from American SF
DJ> prior to Yamato.


        Wow! That would be a challenge. Okay...


        Fist season: Episode 7 and 8. The Argo upon leaving the Earth's solar
system discovers a Gamilon military installation on Pluto. In order to protect
Earth from further attack from that base the Argo attacks. They discover though
that the planet is defended by a large laser cannon with reflector satallites in
orbit so that the Gamilons can hit any target around the planet. A small
commando team is sent down to destroy the gun.
        The story is basically "The guns of Navarone". In 1979, Battlestar
Galactica did the story again in the episode called "Gun on Ice Planet Zero".
The Yamato episode was better written.
        2nd season: Episode 4. The crew of the Argo, convinced that a call for
help has been recieved ignores the Earth Defense Command's desicion to ignore
the message. They conspire together to meet at the dry-docked Argo and steal the
ship for an unauthorized rescue mission. Shades of Star Trek III.
        Again second season: Episode 5. After blasting their way through the
dockyard gates and escaping into space with the Argo, the EDF dispatches the
flagship of the fleet, The Andromeda to retrieve the Argo. (Again shades of Star
Trek III.)
        Second season: The climatic battles between the Comet Empire and the
Earth fleet. Glen Larson actually signed a statement that he based Battlestar
Galactica on these elements. This was done to partially ward off a lawsuit by
George Lucas, but in order to work HAD to have a grain of truth.
        Second Season: The Comet Empire battlefortress, closely resembles the
Death Star both in form and function.

        Second and third season: The former enemies of the Earth government, the
Gamilons, make peace. They are just as dangerous if not more so as allies than
they were as enemies. Shades of the Klingons from Next Generation.

        There are more. I'll try to go back over the series and post what I find
in a few days.
        I almost forgot...the Space Marines from Blazers turned up in B-5 too.
Except that in Blazers/Yamato they had a reason to be surly and fight everyone.
They'd just had their butts kicked by the Comet Empire and found themselves
rescued by the Space Jockies as they called them. Their pride was hurt. Then to
add insult to injury, there was nothing for them to do on the ship. The Space
Jockies kept telling them they weren't "Qualified" to fly the planes, shoot the
guns, you name it. Naturally, they were angry. They wanted tro strike back at
the enemy which had hurt them, but found they couldn't. So they struck back at
their benefactors instead...the crew of the Argo. Eventually, they did get their
chance to fight and became fast friends and allies with the Space Jockies.
        The Marines on B-5 fought too. They fought civilians, they fought
officers, they fought each other...and for no good reason. And the silly thing
is that when I pointed this out originally someone came back and replied "That's
what Marines do." Ahem, that was without a doubt the silliest reply I ever got.
Marines are trained from the get go to think and act as a team. A team doesn't
fight against itself. Marines will fight against sailors, army, airforce, even
civilians. But they fight as a team, and they don't fight each other in brawls
and they sure as heck don't fight their officers!

        Well, time to get off my soap box for now.






--- CNet/3
 * Origin: The Bard's Tavern Denton, TX (817)243-5110 USR 28.8   (1:393/7)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 129 of 300
 From : Ken Mayes                           1:393/7         .åò 16 Hîÿ 95 17:59
 To   : All
 Subj : Re: Foundation series?
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
        You might also want to check out the Robot series which actually sort of
leads into the Foundation series. R Daneel Olivaw turns up in the later
Foundation novels if I remember right.





--- CNet/3
 * Origin: The Bard's Tavern Denton, TX (817)243-5110 USR 28.8   (1:393/7)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 130 of 300
 From : Kevin Ahearn                        1:109/104       .åò 16 Hîÿ 95 19:44
 To   : Owen E. Oulton
 Subj : Foundation series?
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 OEO> True.  Indeed, the original (and, to my mind, only
 OEO> worthwhile) Foundation books, Foundation, Foundation
 OEO> And Empire and Second Foundation were written in the
 OEO> early 1940, and all the others produced over 40 years
 OEO> later, in what I believe to be a misguided attempt to
 OEO> join up the Foundation and Robots series.  I find that
 OEO> they add nothing to the grand vision of the originals,
 OEO> and indeed take away from them in many cases.

I think you're right about that...the original trilogy (actually three
collections of short stories) really didn't need the "robot connection."  It
seems as if Asimov wanted to connect all of his stories into a "future history"
and ended up needing a really big shoehorn to make them all fit.

--Kevin


--- Maximus/2 3.00
 * Origin: ShanErin (1:109/104)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 131 of 300
 From : Earl Green                          1:3822/1        .åò 16 Hîÿ 95 21:04
 To   : All
 Subj : B5 magazine available
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Just picked up the official B5 magazine today, and it was honestly
better than I expected.  I anticipated the usual Sendai Publishing mix
of a great photo layout and lazy, repetitious text, but boy was I wrong.
For once, the articles and interviews are very in-depth and interesting,
and revealed a lot of stuff I hadn't heard or read anywhere else (not
even here!).  And as usual with Sendai's stuff, the pictures and the
layout are fantastic.  I highly recommend the B5 mag to those
interested!
       e  <-- Earl Green (earl.green@f1.n3822.z1.fidonet.org) 1:3822/1
---
 * SLMR 2.0 * Yes I wonder, is this the way life's meant to be?

--- QScan/PCB v1.18b / 01-0162
 * Origin: Jackalope Junction 501-785-5381 Ft Smith AR (1:3822/1)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 132 of 300
 From : Phill Ash                           1:275/160       .åò 16 Hîÿ 95 07:02
 To   : Marc Zingarelli
 Subj : Highlander:  New Season
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE 1.1+

 MZ> Now that's depressing!!! Let's hope not.  The season seems to be going
 MZ> pretty good this year and I must say I'm impressed.  Any word on
 MZ> renewal yet?

        RENEWAL???!!!

                We're talkin' 'bout Highlander, not Logan's Ru...
                nevermind <G>


From the Office of the DeathMaster General
---
 þ DeathMail (ver ü.1) þ Doctor Foreman?--Doctor who?  What's he talking about?
~~~ ReneWave v1.01 [NR]
--- GEcho 1.10+
 * Origin: * The Beast's Lair * (804)498-3070 * Va Beach VA * (1:275/160)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 133 of 300
 From : Michael Harper                      1:123/10        .pä 15 Hîÿ 95 21:22
 To   : Starwolf
 Subj : Time Tunnel
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 > Yah, the Tunnel set was impressive, even with those cheezy
 > Irwin Allen blinky-winkies(tm) everywhere.

Yeah. Hollywood's idea of high-powered computers, circa 1970...

 > I think one of the Tunnel control staff actors is dead,
 > possibly more.  Lee Meriwether is still alive, I think.  Good
 > luck on the digitally remastered, though.  And for the tvm.
 > I'm hoping, too, but, thus far, the only one of his shows
 > anyone seems to have been semi-serious about doing is LAND OF
 > THE GIANTS - possibly his weakest offering.

Aw, no. Not that one... Allen did some okay stuff for its time, but that one was
real weak; I refused to watch it even back then, and I was willing to watch
almost anything... I'd much rather see a revival of Voyage, if they're not
gonna dTunnel... although there are arguments for SeaQuest being a revival of
Voyage... <EG>

 > Still, the tvm taking up where THE INVADERS series left off
 > is a promising advent.  Catch it Sunday and Tuesday evenings.

I missed it, partly because mi madre and I wanted to watch Streets Of Laredo,
and partly because a friend needed me last night, and I never can say no to
her... I'll catch Invaders on rerun, or borrow somebody's tape of it...

Later days, muchacho...
--- RA/FD/FMail
 * Origin: The Electric Fox - Memphis,TN, U.S.A.  1-901-327-1008 (1:123/10)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 134 of 300
 From : Michael Harper                      1:123/10        .pä 15 Hîÿ 95 21:33
 To   : Dkimmel
 Subj : HITLER'S BRAIN
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 > Just in case there are any lurkers who don't get that you're
 > simply
 > ragging on the great director, Stanely Kubrick had NOTHING to
 > do with
 > the shlocker "They Saved Hitler's Brain."

My source is somewhat apocryphal, but I trust him about as much as I trust
anybody... Almost every director/actor/whatever has a film or two in their past
that's so godawful they'll disavow it in a heartbeat; Kubrick is no different.

And don't idolize the twit just because he did one or two great films. Kubrick
refuses to own up to his stupidities, unlike Huston and Welles, who made a few
clinkers and admitted it. Kubrick has always thought his sh*t didn't stink, and
he's always been wrong. His sort of turgid self-aggrandizement annoys the hell
out of me. People who think they can do no wrong always do. Only Allah can
create perfection; for mortal man to think he can do so is a mortal sin.
--- RA/FD/FMail
 * Origin: The Electric Fox - Memphis,TN, U.S.A.  1-901-327-1008 (1:123/10)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 135 of 300
 From : Mark Holtz                          1:203/1701      .åò 16 Hîÿ 95 16:03
 To   : The Raven
 Subj : Quickening effects
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
When The Raven typed to Todd Sullivan, strange things happened, like....

 TR> Christopher Lambert wouldn't committ because of his blindness.

Lambert is blind? This is news to me..... but then, I don't keep up with
Lambert.

... f u cn rd ths, u cn gt a gd jb n cmptr prgrmmng.
--- Blue Wave/TG v2.21 [NR]
 * Origin: Deep Space Franchise (916) 721-1701 (1:203/1701.0)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 136 of 300
 From : David Johnston                      1:342/14        .åò 16 Hîÿ 95 01:14
 To   : Richard Hudson
 Subj : Quickening Effects
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
-> DJ>It's so they could have Connor Mcleod appear on the show to boost
-> the DJ>ratings for the pilot.  (Something I wish they hadn't done.)
-> Nope It's because Christopher Lambert refused to play Conner in the
-> series and demanded so much money that they could only afford to have
-> him in that episode

That doesn't follow.  SOP with TV adaptations of movies is to just
recast the part.  They did not in this case, so that they could have
Lambert guest star.

--- PCBoard (R) v15.21/100
 * Origin: Freddy's Place - Edm. AB - 28.8K (403) 456-4241 (1:342/14)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 137 of 300
 From : David Hilling                       1:262/32        .òp 14 Hîÿ 95 09:48
 To   : Anne Hardcastle
 Subj : Re: Casting Pern
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
::To: Todd Sullivan  From: Anne Hardcastle  Subj: Re: Casting Pern  ::
----------------------@N

 AH> Hey, is this just idle speculation or has somebody in Hollywood
 AH> started to actually think about this?

I just hope the morons who raped Dune have nothing to do with it.
On the other hand, how about David Crosby as Robinton? <g>


... Honor those the dragons heed...
---
 À Blue Wave/DOS v2.21 [NR] À
--- Renegade v10-05 Exp
 * Origin: The Gallifrey BBS * 614-867-2812,,77 * Zoom 28.8k (1:262/32)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 138 of 300
 From : Dkimmel                             1:101/230       .pä 15 Hîÿ 95 09:28
 To   : Brian Henderson
 Subj : MST3K
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
BH>TT> Actually, they've been done with the movie for quite awhile now. I'm
BH>TT> really interested to see what they've come up with (the two new
BH>TT> shows) but NOT at the cost of MST3K.

BH>Actually, the movie was supposed to have been released to theaters in
BH>September but it was put off for a Christmas release. I still haven't
BH>been able to get a date for the six new episodes this season.

Actually the movie has been pushed back to spring of '96.  The first of
the seventh season episodes will premiere as the finale to the Turkey
Day marathon.


 * SLMR 2.1a * Push the button, Frank.

--- FLAME v1.0
 * Origin: Withouta Net - Drop In Anytime! - 617/846-5416 (1:101/230)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 139 of 300
 From : Todd Sullivan                       1:202/720.3     .îí 13 Hîÿ 95 13:59
 To   : Anne Hardcastle
 Subj : Casting Pern
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Whilst falling into the sun on 11 Nov 95, Anne Hardcastle yelled to me:

 AH> Hey, is this just idle speculation or has somebody in Hollywood started
 AH> to actually think about this?

I have no idea; I'd like to see it happen, but McCaffery's lawyers are a nasty
bunch; ask why Brigadoon isn't called PernNet any more.

Todd Sullivan

... Rule of Aquisition #75:  Home is where the heart is, but the stars are
     made of latinum.

-*- ASTG 1.9

--- Spot 1.3a Unregistered
 * Origin: Todd's Spot in the Continuum (1:202/720.3)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 140 of 300
 From : Todd Sullivan                       1:202/720.3     .îí 13 Hîÿ 95 13:57
 To   : Frank Swarbrick
 Subj : Star Wars I
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Whilst falling into the sun on 10 Nov 95, Frank Swarbrick yelled to me:


 TS>> Lucas is still, last I heard, waiting for Mark Hamill to look old
 TS>> enough to play Anakin Skywalker.

 FS> You're not serious are you?  Not that I don't think Hammill would play
 FS> a good Anakin Skywalker, but I thought they were going to use all
 FS> different actors.

 FS> Anyway, it's been almost 20 years since Star Wars, so I'd have to say
 FS> that Hammill's at least 40, or will be in a few years.  Certainly
 FS> that's plenty old enough isn't it?

All I know is what I heard.  I made no claims as to its veracity.

I could care less, just so long as I see them before *I* turn 40...in about 7
years.

Todd Sullivan

... Deadlines amuse me.

-*- ASTG 1.9

--- Spot 1.3a Unregistered
 * Origin: Todd's Spot in the Continuum (1:202/720.3)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 141 of 300
 From : Todd Sullivan                       1:202/720.3     .pä 15 Hîÿ 95 09:13
 To   : Brian Henderson
 Subj : B5 Vs St
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Whilst falling into the sun on 19 Oct 95, Brian Henderson yelled to Chris
Carter:

 CC>> computers, and why the power plant is still fusion.

 BH> But that makes no sense. This station, which is charged both with the
 BH> protection of Bajor and the wormhole is being run by 70 year old
 BH> technology? Especially considering the Federation has transporter
 BH> technology and therefore production is *CHEAP*.

You haven't been thinking clearly, the ultimate sin.

If you'd read TNG Tech Manual, you'd have seen where replicators use *lots* of
energy to do relatively simple things.  That's where the cost is.  The amount of
power to refit DS9 would be *ENORMOUSLY* energy intensive, to the point of
consuming entire stars to get the energy needed.

And as Okuda and Sternbach said in the Manual:  "If you could replicate entire
starships, you wouldn't need to."

Todd Sullivan

... Creationist, eh?  Back to strong-arming schools boards again?

-*- ASTG 1.9

--- Spot 1.3a Unregistered
 * Origin: Todd's Spot in the Continuum (1:202/720.3)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 142 of 300
 From : Todd Sullivan                       1:202/720.3     .pä 15 Hîÿ 95 09:23
 To   : The Raven
 Subj : Quickening effects
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Whilst falling into the sun on 13 Nov 95, The Raven yelled to me:

 TS>> This series follows Duncan because Christopher Lambert (Connor) might
 TS>> have not been available to do a series, while Adrian Paul (Duncan) was.

 TR>      Christopher Lambert wouldn't committ because of his blindness.

Say /*WHAT*/?!

Tell me this isn't a hoax, Jack; it's not funny.

If it's true, it's a tribute to him; he hasn't given up.  Whew!  Imagining the
problems he had to deal with in "Greystoke" alone.....

Todd Sullivan

... We secretly replaced the BIOS with AmigaDos 3.1...

-*- ASTG 1.9

--- Spot 1.3a Unregistered
 * Origin: Todd's Spot in the Continuum (1:202/720.3)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 143 of 300
 From : Todd Sullivan                       1:202/720.3     .pä 15 Hîÿ 95 09:24
 To   : The Raven
 Subj : Casting Pern
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Whilst falling into the sun on 13 Nov 95, The Raven yelled to me:

 TS>> Unfortunately, Burr is no longer with us; he died a couple years ago.

 TS>> Perhaps Orson Welles?

 TR>      Orson Welles joined the Choir Invisible before Raymond Burr did...

Oops.  Oh, well.

Todd Sullivan

... Unable to locate Mt.Dew.Com - Programmer halted!

-*- ASTG 1.9

--- Spot 1.3a Unregistered
 * Origin: Todd's Spot in the Continuum (1:202/720.3)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 144 of 300
 From : Brion Lienhart                      1:213/700.2     .pä 15 Hîÿ 95 15:56
 To   : Chris Carter
 Subj : B5 vs. The Evil Midnight Bomber...
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Bwahahahaha!
What brought this on? Delerium Tremens?
"Well, if it isn't Garibaldi, my favorite psychotic gun-toting security chief."



--- QM v1.31
 * Origin: Ministry of Truth - Carson City, NV (1:213/700.2)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 145 of 300
 From : Nicolai Shapero                     1:102/524       .åò 16 Hîÿ 95 07:11
 To   : Bianca Wesslak
 Subj : Re: Questions, But Are T
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Nov 13 22:27>, Bianca Wesslak (1:132/152) wrote to Chris Ogniben:

 BW>1.  we will not be able to go very far on large tanks of fuel

Even with high specific impulse rockets, we're going to need lots of fuel to get
far, fast.  Unless we find a way around the laws of physics, as currently
understood.

 BW>2.  Nuclear power is extremely dangerous, and it kinda leaves
 BW>radiation
 BW>behind.

Not necessarily (on either count).  No radiation leakage absolutely necessary.

 BW>3.  this is the future, why limit it?

Because if you don't limit it, what you have is fantasy, not science fiction.

-- Nicolai Shapero, the Mad Russian Sysop of StormGate Aerie

--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 146 of 300
 From : Nicolai Shapero                     1:102/524       .åò 16 Hîÿ 95 07:15
 To   : Stephen Burkholder
 Subj : Darrel k sweet
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Nov 15 10:25>, Stephen Burkholder (1:282/108) wrote to All:

 SB>Does anyone know how I could get a hold of some of darrel k
 SB>sweets
 SB>artwork? he does mostly sci-fi book covers.

Write to the artist, care of the publisher that used one of his pieces for a
cover, perhaps?

-- Nicolai Shapero, the Mad Russian Sysop of StormGate Aerie


--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 147 of 300
 From : Ed Brannin                          1:2613/135      .åò 16 Hîÿ 95 07:24
 To   : All
 Subj : red dwarf
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
anyone here like red dwarf?

... "Lister, Female opposite.  Rimmer, Female opposite.  Where's mine?"

___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20 [NR]



--- QScan/PCB v1.18b / 01-0527
 * Origin: Wise BBS - Irondequoit, NY (1:2613/135)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 148 of 300
 From : Mark Jones                          1:105/302.47    .îí 13 Hîÿ 95 21:57
 To   : Ml Sands
 Subj : In general
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On (11 Nov 95) Ml Sands wrote to All...

 MS> Another subject on this forum has been the legal/economic status
 MS> of the invtroes on SAAB. I think that subject soured pretty fast.
 MS> In fact it seems monstrous that a few posts were rationalizing
 MS> "good" reasons for slavery.    slavery     SLAVERY

   Get a grip.
   As one of those "monstrously" rationalizing slavery, note that I
was presenting reasons why someone might choose to do it--not
advocating it.  A subtle yet important distinction.
   Besides, unless you're prepared to have all your villains twirling
their mustaches and chortling about how eeeeeeevil they are, you have
to be able to present at least semi-plausible justifications for acts
that most people consider reprehensible.
   Nobody in the real world thinks of himself as a villain.  Everyone
has justifications for their actions.  Including the most despicable
people in the world.  Hitler didn't think he was doing evil; he had
good, solid reasons (at least in his own mind) for what he did.
   And so did slave-owners.  And so *will* slave-owners in the future,
if ever there are any.


--- PPoint 1.78
 * Origin: Folcroft Sanitarium (hsmith@cure.com) (1:105/302.47)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 149 of 300
 From : Mark Jones                          1:105/302.47    .òp 14 Hîÿ 95 22:37
 To   : The Raven
 Subj : Quickening effects
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On (13 Nov 95) The Raven wrote to Todd Sullivan...

 TR>      Christopher Lambert wouldn't committ because of his blindness.

   What?  This is news to me.  Please to be explaining.


--- PPoint 1.78
 * Origin: Folcroft Sanitarium (hsmith@cure.com) (1:105/302.47)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 150 of 300
 From : Mark Jones                          1:105/302.47    .pä 15 Hîÿ 95 22:57
 To   : Bianca Wesslak
 Subj : Questions, But Are T
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On (13 Nov 95) Bianca Wesslak wrote to Chris Ogniben...

 BW> 1.  we will not be able to go very far on large tanks of fuel

...but farther than we could go on *small* tanks of fuel.

 BW> 2. Nuclear power is extremely dangerous, and it kinda leaves
 BW> radiation behind.

Nuclear energy is far safer than many other kinds.  (The same week the
media was having hysterics about Three Mile Island lo those many years
ago now, over fifty people died when a coal processing plant blew up.
So far nobody has been killed by TMI.)

On the other hand, the nuclear rocket project--fling a bomb under a
big shock-absorbing plate and torch it off, then ride the
shockwave--*would* spew radioactives all over the landscape.  That's
not a good idea.


--- PPoint 1.78
 * Origin: Folcroft Sanitarium (hsmith@cure.com) (1:105/302.47)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 151 of 300
 From : Chris Ogniben                       1:2604/568      .pä 15 Hîÿ 95 10:11
 To   : Jon Helis
 Subj : Re: The Long Twilight Sp
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

    Yeah, it could be the Shadow War.  Since, it was SinClair and
Delenn the future versions of them.  That were seen on b4.  So, it may
have some sort of value to fight the shadow war, or some other war in
the future, or in another dimension.


--- WM v3.11/93-0947
 * Origin: Waterside BBS - NJ - (201) 641-5375 28.8k  (1:2604/568)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 152 of 300
 From : Chris Ogniben                       1:2604/568      .pä 15 Hîÿ 95 10:13
 To   : Jon Helis
 Subj : Re: Vir Cotto
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

   Maybe Londo will try to kill the Shadow's or find some way to help
the others.  And get killed himself for this.


--- WM v3.11/93-0947
 * Origin: Waterside BBS - NJ - (201) 641-5375 28.8k  (1:2604/568)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 153 of 300
 From : Chris Ogniben                       1:2604/568      .pä 15 Hîÿ 95 10:14
 To   : David Reffitt
 Subj : Re: Vir Cotto
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

    Well, you never know when it comes to the time that Londo will die.
 But, i don't know.


--- WM v3.11/93-0947
 * Origin: Waterside BBS - NJ - (201) 641-5375 28.8k  (1:2604/568)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 154 of 300
 From : Jeff Hancock                        1:3600/7        .åò 16 Hîÿ 95 00:21
 To   : Brian Henderson
 Subj : B5 Vs. Trek, Again.
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

BH>JH>should still realize that people CAN like Trek AND B5, and that
BH>JH>those who do are likely to dislike the echo because of the
BH>JH>anti-Trek rallying.

BH>Actually, JMS says that *HE* likes B5 and Trek. He has gone on record
BH>saying that he has very much enjoyed many DS9 and Voyager episodes.

Wow.... this message is post-dated from nearly a month ago.
Fido's been a bad boy again.

Yes, I know that, now, I've been seeing some relevant cross-posts.
All over and done with.

BH>Well, I think we can blame people like Ford Thaxton who are die-hard
BH>Trek fanatics who spend all their time on r.a.s.t.b5 trying to flame

And twist words, no doubt? It wasn't long after I heard what JMS had
said about DS9's ratings troubles that someone else posted a perverted
version of it claiming that JMS was trying to get rid of DS9, rather
than letting people know what Paramount was saying about it.

BH>the show. Actually, if you look at the content of the group, there is
BH>much more B5 material by far than anything that flames Trek.

I wouldn't know personally, but you hear a few reports and you wonder.
;) Besides, it's the annoying things that people tend to notice, so it
doesn't usually take much crap to seem to overshadow the rest.
-=-
 * Crazy-J * I just naturally respect pretty girls in tight sweaters.

--- SLMAIL v3.5C  (#1540)
 * Origin: Robotech þ Lake City's Music*Demo BBS þ [904] 758*9477 (1:3600/7)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 155 of 300
 From : Jeff Hancock                        1:3600/7        .åò 16 Hîÿ 95 00:27
 To   : Brian Henderson
 Subj : B5 Vs. Trek, Again.
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

BH>Of course, and I'm sure that we've all see the moderated groups where
BH>the moderator decides that it's his own personal newsgroup and dumps
BH>anything that disagrees with his own ideas.

Yes, I've heard, which is why I was against the idea from the start.
Of course, back then I was a little less hip to the realities of
echomail, moderators, and the whole "freedom of speech" thing. ;-)
Glad I grew out of that phase.

However, in a few cases I can see where it just might well be a Good
Thing, when the alternative can get very nasty indeed. One only has to
run into a few word-twisting, insecure and emotionally paranoid
flame-freaks to relish the idea of being able to cut them off
completely. And when they are prolific and verbose as well...
-=-
 * Crazy-J * Nice form but missing the pool; that'll affect her score.

--- SLMAIL v3.5C  (#1540)
 * Origin: Robotech þ Lake City's Music*Demo BBS þ [904] 758*9477 (1:3600/7)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 156 of 300
 From : Jeff Hancock                        1:3600/7        .åò 16 Hîÿ 95 00:28
 To   : Brian Henderson
 Subj : B5 Vs. Trek, Again.
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

BH>JH> Does he ever reply back to any of the more annoying people about
BH>At times. Sometimes people get a little too obnoxious, particularly

So I've seen, the returns from JMS that is, not the originals.
But I get the drift.

BH>Personally, he's got a lot more intestinal fortitude than I do.

Now that's a rather Draal thing to say...
-=-
 * Crazy-J * All Together Now: "THE STARBOARD POWER COUPLING IS DOWN!"

--- SLMAIL v3.5C  (#1540)
 * Origin: Robotech þ Lake City's Music*Demo BBS þ [904] 758*9477 (1:3600/7)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 157 of 300
 From : Jeff Hancock                        1:3600/7        .åò 16 Hîÿ 95 00:34
 To   : Brian Henderson
 Subj : B5 Vs. Trek, Again.
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

BH>plenty of people tell JMS off, tell him he screwed up, etc. which
BH>should forever dispel the myth that r.a.s.t.b5 is a group for the
BH>worship of the JMS deity.

Oh yes, I've seen JMS's opinion on that too. ;-) Apparently there's this
running "JMS SUCKS ****" and similiar-themed threads (where the subject
rarely gets changed, natch, even when the theme does)

BH>JH> Not that interested, I'm afraid. Fidonet eats up more of my time
BH>Actually, you'd be amazed at how much more you'd enjoy modeming if
BH>you had an Internet connect. I've pretty much given up everything

Point of view, I suppose. I've run into enough obnoxious Internetters
who share Fido, and seen the cross-posts, to be quite leery of the idea.
The FTP would be nice, I suppose the Web would be fun but more of a
waste of time than anything particularly useful. And, like I said, I
spend more than enough time on Fido as it is - I know about the huge
newsgroups as well.

Now given a very intelligent filter which could sense everything I would
want to read and dump the rest, that would be fun. Perhaps something
with an AI simulation of myself that could read everything and just pass
on the good stuff... ;-)

BH>At least over on Usenet, they whine about B5 plenty. I pulled 50
BH>random headers from one of the ST groups and at least 30% of them
BH>were directed at B5. That might not be a great sample so if someone

If people change subject headers on Internet anything like they do on
Fido, that's not a good indication of what's happening now. Hell, they
might have carried over from the first season!
-=-
 * Crazy-J * If people behaved like governments, you'd call the cops.

--- SLMAIL v3.5C  (#1540)
 * Origin: Robotech þ Lake City's Music*Demo BBS þ [904] 758*9477 (1:3600/7)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 158 of 300
 From : Jeff Hancock                        1:3600/7        .åò 16 Hîÿ 95 00:42
 To   : Brian Henderson
 Subj : B5 Vs. Trek, Again.
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

BH>JH> In a few markets, I hear, it even gets shifted around nearly every w
BH>JH> with either a wrong or no TV guide listing at all.

BH>Unfortunately, this is a PTEN problem, not a B5 problem. This has
BH>been a problem with *ALL* PTEN shows.

In what way? PTEN certainly doesn't encourage this.

Read something from JMS today, via crossposts to the B5 echo...

 >Comments about stations dropping the show, and stations that keep it:

    The stations that keep the show consistent do well with it, and
don't usually drop it.  So you're probably in good shape here.
                                                                    jms

And then you have the stations which, according to what I hear from
irate posters, shift it around practically every other week. Of course
that makes it impossible to do well with it.

In my own situation, they shifted it with not enough advance warning to
update the weekly TV listings, when I called on a hunch one of the
things they said to me is that "we know fans will follow the show", to
which I was replying "but don't we have to KNOW about it?" This wasn't
exactly advertised, either... but, they did put a scrolling message at
the beginning of the replacement as to the new day and time, fortunately
it was shifted to later in the week.

As far as I know, some stations still have no plans to renew for the
fourth season. This makes me suspect that JMS may be pulling all the
strings he can, speeding things up on the show for more of a blowout in
order to punch those ratings.

On the other hand, I hear they're moving a show to coincide with the
November sweeps, and while it's supposed to be good, it'll also have
nearly zip in the way of F/X. That won't please a lot of potential
converts, I suspect....
-=-
 * Crazy-J * "You killed my hostage? ... YOU - KILLED - MY - HOSTAGE!"

--- SLMAIL v3.5C  (#1540)
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Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 159 of 300
 From : Jeff Hancock                        1:3600/7        .åò 16 Hîÿ 95 00:50
 To   : The Raven
 Subj : B5 VS. TREK, AGAIN.
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

TR> JH> Yes, yes, but that doesn't mean that it should overshadow all
TR> JH>other SF just because it is popular.
TR>     The question is moot, Jeff.  Whether or not it should doesn't
TR>matter, because it already does.  Period.  And there's very little we
TR>can do about it, short of altering history.

Or attempting to promote the alternative and encourage the media to give
it more attention?

TR> JH> That's still no reason not to give it a mention now and then,
TR> JH>even a mini-review.
TR>     In point of fact, they gave it a four page article just a couple
TR>of months ago... it was the one in which the picture of the station
TR>was upside down.

That's TV Guide, which I don't read. I was talking about Entertainment
Weekly.

But while we're on the subject, I also recently heard that TV Guide
wasn't giving it any sort of description, just listing the name and
time. This was according to someone in the B5 echo, who was gleefully
posting that FINALLY they were giving it a description (it was about an
alien probe, "A Day in the Strife"). I doubt you'll be able to verify
that now if they've just changed their policy, unless you have some old
TV Guides, but it still shows a lack of respect. Or space.

TR> JH> That doesn't change the bias on the part of the reviewer, it
TR> JH>just shows that the editors at least believe in some form of
TR> JH>fairness.
TR>     Reviewers are *supposed* to be biased.  They get payed for their
TR>personal opinions, Jeff.  That is, in fact, what they are there for.

Which makes it all the more annoying when you disagree with them,
doesn't it? Granted, the guy isn't exactly nuts about SF at all, but
then he's not the only reason I read the thing anyway.

They could at least hire someone who gives a damn about SF television,
he's not the only TV reviewer but apparently gets more weight than the
others about what's printed in that section.
-=-
 * Crazy-J * Any similarity is due to the overlapping quantum reality.

--- SLMAIL v3.5C  (#1540)
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Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 160 of 300
 From : Jeff Hancock                        1:3600/7        .åò 16 Hîÿ 95 01:13
 To   : Robert Parson
 Subj : VIR COTTO
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

RP>        Lennier provides not only a sounding board, but also a manner
RP>to pass along information that might prove valuable in The Great War.
RP>He would be in an extremely sensitive position, to say the least, and
RP>he is openly hostile to Morden.

When did Lennier meet Morden?

Does Lennier even know who Morden IS? One would suppose Delenn would
have told him, but we don't know that.
-=-
 * Crazy-J * She has beautiful eyes ... too bad she has three of them.

--- SLMAIL v3.5C  (#1540)
 * Origin: Robotech þ Lake City's Music*Demo BBS þ [904] 758*9477 (1:3600/7)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 161 of 300
 From : Jeff Hancock                        1:3600/7        .åò 16 Hîÿ 95 23:13
 To   : David Reffitt
 Subj : Vir Cotto
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

DR>Yes, I did see it. Then from what you are saying, if Londo dies then
DR>there will be no Centauri on Babylon 5 as representatives?

The Centauri would undoubtedly send a new one.

Here's something to think about. Londo and Vir were both sent because
the position was nothing to be envious of. The Centauri were gradually
backsliding, Londo was a fall guy who got to make all the visible
concessions for their race; Vir was sent because no one wanted him at
home.

Vir was nearly recalled when Londo's position started becoming more
important after his Shadow alliance, but Londo stepped in and protected
him.

Now, Londo has broken with the Shadows. The post is, presumably, still
important - but Londo isn't. As was in the opening third-season episode,
Morden and Refa have gotten together, so Londo is superfluous.

So, what's to stop the Centauri, and Refa in particular, from deciding
the post is too important to be trusted to someone like Londo, who has
been reluctant to cooperate and is no longer needed - or able - to pull
any significant strings?

Of course, one may argue why they need much of an ambassador at all any
more, since they plan to conquer half the galaxy anyway. But even so,
Mollari may find himself dispossessed of his position...
-=-
 * Crazy-J * "The computer was down, and we had to think all day long"

--- SLMAIL v3.5C  (#1540)
 * Origin: Robotech þ Lake City's Music*Demo BBS þ [904] 758*9477 (1:3600/7)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 162 of 300
 From : Paul Goverts                        1:2613/135      .ÿò 17 Hîÿ 95 22:13
 To   : Ed Brannin
 Subj : red dwarf
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

-=> Quoting Ed Brannin to All <=-

 EB> anyone here like red dwarf?

i Do!

Paul

... "Yield to temptation, it may not pass your way again." - L. Long



--- QScan/PCB v1.18b / 01-0527
 * Origin: Wise BBS - Irondequoit, NY (1:2613/135)

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 Msg  : 163 of 300
 From : Robert Parson                       1:3822/1        .óá 18 Hîÿ 95 14:08
 To   : Frank Swarbrick
 Subj : RE: THE INVADERS
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
FRANK had this to say

 FS> I'm sitting here watching The Invaders (the new mini-series) and was
 FS> wondering if anyone else finds it as boring as I do.  Unbelievable!
 FS> Not to mention bad acting, cliched writing, and a plot that really
 FS> makes no sense. I never saw the series, but I bet it was much better
 FS> than this.  Sheesh, very disappointing.

I've had pretty much the same reaction.  I recorded the first half, watched
it on Tuesday morning, recorded the second half tuesday night and here it is
friday, and I still haven't watched it.  It had some nice touches, but nice
touches don't make for a compelling show.  Maybe I'll get around to watching
the second half Real Soon Now.

I remember a few snatches of scenes from the original series, but that's all.
I was six or seven when it first aired.


Robert (tm)

... Frank, are you pondering what I'm pondering...?
 * Silver Xpress V4.3 SW23473

--- QScan/PCB v1.18b / 01-0162
 * Origin: Jackalope Junction 501-785-5381 Ft Smith AR (1:3822/1)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 164 of 300
 From : Todd Sullivan                       1:202/720.3     .ÿò 17 Hîÿ 95 15:09
 To   : Frank Swarbrick
 Subj : The Invaders
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Whilst falling into the sun on 14 Nov 95, Frank Swarbrick yelled to All:

 FS> I'm sitting here watching The Invaders (the new mini-series) and was
 FS> wondering if anyone else finds it as boring as I do.  Unbelievable!
 FS> Not to mention bad acting, cliched writing, and a plot that really
 FS> makes no sense. I never saw the series, but I bet it was much better
 FS> than this.  Sheesh, very disappointing.

I have, and yes, it was, from all accounts.

Todd Sullivan

... "Soon the Gypsy Queen, in a glaze of vaseline, will perform
     on guillotine.  What a scene, what a scene!" --ELP

-*- ASTG 1.9

--- Spot 1.3a Unregistered
 * Origin: Todd's Spot in the Continuum (1:202/720.3)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 165 of 300
 From : Owen E. Oulton                      1:243/45        .ÿò 17 Hîÿ 95 18:49
 To   : David Reffitt
 Subj : Re: Vir Cotto
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 DR> Then from what you are saying, if Londo dies then there will be no
 DR> Centauri on Babylon 5 as representatives?

True.  If Londo were to die, there would be no official representative of the
Centauri Republic on Babylon 5.  Vir is Londo's assistant, but he himself has no
plenipotentiary powers.  However, it wouldn't take long for another Ambassador
to be assigned.

CFN, O

--- Maximus 2.01wb
 * Origin: Pandora's Box, Ottawa, Ont. 613-829-1209 (1:243/45)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 166 of 300
 From : Chris Ogniben                       1:2604/568      .ÿò 17 Hîÿ 95 11:06
 To   : Shawn Merrow
 Subj : Q Heading For Voyager
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

   Well, i seen the episode.  And, it sure was different to what i
thought was going to happen..  Instead of Voyager going back.. They
find that the female wife, or entity of the Caretaker, was looking to
destroy voyager.  Since she felt that Voyager did it on purpose.  But,
i don't want to go into details.  But, i can see now why they setted it
up, where voyager was not likely going to head back home.  But, they
have an added goal to find the female caretaker and try to get her help
to send them home.. Probably at the end of who knows how many years
lost in space.


--- WM v3.11/93-0947
 * Origin: Waterside BBS - NJ - (201) 641-5375 28.8k  (1:2604/568)

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 Msg  : 167 of 300
 From : Chris Ogniben                       1:2604/568      .ÿò 17 Hîÿ 95 11:12
 To   : Bianca Wesslak
 Subj : Re: Questions, But Are T
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

   It would suck to have a future with matter antimatter reactors.  If
it was ever possible.  I mean, i can understand that the sci fi viewing
of shows and movies.  Could be to motivate scientists and engineers to
develop whatever we see in star trek, and other sci fi shows.  But, who
says that large fuel tanks are not the best way of fueling the engines
through out space.  I don't see a acutal star ship using warp
capabilities in real space.  There is no way that is going to happen.
And, probably would take 3000 to 4000 years to happen.  If it were
possible, which i say it's not.  And, i still don't see any future
designs of space ships to be like star ships in star trek.  But, i feel
more interested in what i see with Babylon 5.. Spinning space statios,
and fuel depo's in space, and ships that are capable of using solar
energy to power batteris and life support systems.  And, to be able to
travel long distances.  But, i don't see anything that i see in star
trek become reality.. Because, star trek is stupid.  I mean, i could
also dream of a real star trek world.  But, that would suck.. Since,
most of what we see in star trek, just doesn't really show the true
picture of what humans can do.. And, as i see it now.  That humans have
all ready used up the best ideas.. And, i don't see us progressing as
fast as we did long ago, since we just don't have the intelligence of a
race of beings to master suck travel in space.  But, we will have some
sort of space travel, and bases on planets.  But, mostly all funded by
coroprations to mine.. And, for us civilians to go out into outer
space, is to get a job with them.  And training to work out in space,
to give the corporation or company profit.


--- WM v3.11/93-0947
 * Origin: Waterside BBS - NJ - (201) 641-5375 28.8k  (1:2604/568)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 168 of 300
 From : Todd Sullivan                       1:202/720.3     .óá 18 Hîÿ 95 09:10
 To   : Ken Mayes
 Subj : B5 -- Coincidence?
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Whilst falling into the sun on 16 Nov 95, Ken Mayes yelled to Chris Carter:

 CC>> And none of those plots or plot elements *pre-date* anime?  No,
 CC>> clearly anime invented all which is good in epic SF these days.

 CC>> Funny, I remember hearing the exact same argument applied to Star
 CC>> Trek.

 KM>         I never claimed that Yamato invented all which is good in Epic
 KM> SF. All I said was that several plot elements which were used in
 KM> several prominant science fiction series and movies turned up there
 KM> previously.

Actually, most of the plots have been endlessly recycled.  Verne, Stevenson and
others in the 1800s started what could be called "scientific fiction" using what
passed for science then.

However, most of the "epic" plots can be traced back to the authors that
flowered in the 20s and 30s: E.E. "Doc" Smith, Robert Heinlein and many others
got their start in the "Pulp Era", and moved up from there.

Todd Sullivan

... "I don't know what your pleasure threshold is." --G'Kar

-*- ASTG 1.9

--- Spot 1.3a Unregistered
 * Origin: Todd's Spot in the Continuum (1:202/720.3)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 169 of 300
 From : Karen Rodgers                       1:202/1313      .óá 18 Hîÿ 95 13:42
 To   : Charles Halliburton
 Subj : X-files
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 -=> Quoting Charles Halliburton to All <=-

 CH> I think that the X-Files are starting to get booring. It's like
 CH> they ran out of ideas.  The episod with the guy who sucked the fat out
 CH> of people had  like ten seconds of action.  Yesterday's episod wasn't

 First of all, there's nothing wrong with stories that don't involve lots
 of shooting, unless, of course, that's all you can comprehend.  I didn't
 care for that one either, for very different reasons.  I'd like to know
 how this "fat sucking vampire" survived, you cannot live without a certain
 level of fat in your body.  He'd have never gotten past his first year of
 life.

 CH> bad, but it wasn't as  good as the one with Tooms.

 Badly thought out premise.

 Karen

... "The truth *is* out there, Mulder, it's my job to hide it." - Scully
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

--- GrayQwkMail 2.1
 * Origin: Written Worlds BBS - 619.697.4073 (1:202/1313)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 170 of 300
 From : Steven Wesen                        1:271/236       .ÿò 17 Hîÿ 95 10:17
 To   : Frank Swarbrick
 Subj : Re: The Invaders
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE 1.11+
What don't you like the cure for Insomnia.

--- GEcho 1.11+
 * Origin: Time Machine Node 2, Newport News, VA 595-9383 (1:271/236)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 171 of 300
 From : The Raven                           1:363/309       .óá 18 Hîÿ 95 03:55
 To   : Marc Zingarelli
 Subj : Highlander:  New Season
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 MZ> Now that's depressing!!! Let's hope not.  The season seems to be going
 MZ> pretty good this year and I must say I'm impressed.  Any word on
 MZ> renewal yet?

     None yet.  I'll keep you informed, though.

     Jack Butler



... "What would Popeye do in a tight spot like this?"
--- Blue Wave/RA v2.20 [NR]
 * Origin: Forethought BBS -=- Orlando, FL -=- 407-679-6561 (1:363/309)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 172 of 300
 From : The Raven                           1:363/309       .óá 18 Hîÿ 95 03:55
 To   : Michael Harper
 Subj : B5: the fall of night
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 MH> He also said that just because we see this face of the Vorlons
 MH> doesn't necessarily mean it's the real thing; what we perceive isn't
 MH> the reality. He's fooling about with primal archetypes here, angels
 MH> and devils... and this is going to get awfully deep before the end
 MH> of the season...

     I remember reading some spoiler material that said we'd be seeing Kosh
again, but not in the way we expect... now that I've seen the "public Kosh",
I think that "not in the way we expect" means "what he looks like when no one
else is looking".

     Jack Butler



... Democracy is good.  I say this because other systems are worse.
--- Blue Wave/RA v2.20 [NR]
 * Origin: Forethought BBS -=- Orlando, FL -=- 407-679-6561 (1:363/309)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 173 of 300
 From : The Raven                           1:363/309       .óá 18 Hîÿ 95 03:55
 To   : Bianca Wesslak
 Subj : Questions, But Are T
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 BW> 2.  Nuclear power is extremely dangerous, and it kinda leaves
 BW> radiation  behind.

     So does sunlight.  Your point was?

     Just to let you know, the maximum exposure reached at Three Mile Island
during the entirety of the "crisis" at that reactor was less than half that
received by just sitting anywhere in the US Capitol Building for two minutes.
There are ways of handling radioactives that make them a hell of a lot less
dangerous than, say, internal combustion.

     Jack Butler



... "Okay, okay... minor setback." -- DarkWing Duck
--- Blue Wave/RA v2.20 [NR]
 * Origin: Forethought BBS -=- Orlando, FL -=- 407-679-6561 (1:363/309)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 174 of 300
 From : David Johnston                      1:342/14        .óá 18 Hîÿ 95 01:24
 To   : Todd Sullivan
 Subj : Quickening Effects
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
-> TS>> This series follows Duncan because Christopher Lambert (Connor)
-> might TS>> have not been available to do a series, while Adrian Paul
-> (Duncan) was.
-> TR>      Christopher Lambert wouldn't committ because of his
-> blindness.
-> Say /*WHAT*/?!
->
-> Tell me this isn't a hoax, Jack; it's not funny.

Gee, and I thought he meant "inability to see the great potential of the
tv series".

--- PCBoard (R) v15.21/100
 * Origin: Freddy's Place - Edm. AB - 28.8K (403) 456-4241 (1:342/14)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 175 of 300
 From : Richard Hudson                      1:141/450       .òp 14 Hîÿ 95 22:42
 To   : David Reffitt
 Subj : Re: Vir Cotto
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
===========================================================================
 BBS: The Pleasure Palace BBS
Date: 11-11-95 (07:55)             Number: 1705
From: DAVID REFFITT                Refer#: 1699
  To: CHRIS OGNIBEN                 Recvd: NO
Subj: Re: Vir Cotto                  Conf: (9) Sffan
___------------------------------------------------------------------------

DR>I do see your point. Do you think that when Londo dies that
DR>Vir might take his place?

ER. No. Vir dosen't want to take his place. In fact Vir desperetly wants
to get as far away from the situation as he can, but he's too loyal to
Londo to leave him. Besides Londo won't die until after the series is
over

RIchard Hudson

DR>--- DR> * Origin: Beyond the Pale 913-384-1577 (1:280/341)

___
 * SLMR 2.0 * The Atari 2600 1978-1991 <SIGH> I miss the Classics

--- Maximus 3.00
 * Origin: The Pleasure Palace BBS (1:141/450)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 176 of 300
 From : Chris Carter                        1:105/290.23    .óá 18 Hîÿ 95 03:24
 To   : Ken Mayes
 Subj : B5 -- Coincidence?
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On (16 Nov 95) Ken Mayes wrote to Chris Carter...

 CC> And none of those plots or plot elements *pre-date* anime?
 CC> No, clearly anime invented all which is good in epic SF these
 CC> days.

 CC> Funny, I remember hearing the exact same argument applied to
 CC> Star Trek.

 KM> I never claimed that Yamato invented all which is good in Epic
 KM> SF. All I said was that several plot elements which were used
 KM> in several prominant science fiction series and movies turned
 KM> up there previously.

I do apologize for putting words in your mouth (fingers?).  I was
trying to make a point by exaggerating the assertion being made.  It
has been said before that B5 has taken elements from ST, and now I'm
just relating that to the same being said of anime.  In both cases,
I think these assertions are untrue.

Chris - carter@teleport.com


... Allow me to continue to reiterate.

--- PPoint 1.98
 * Origin: Grid Epsilon Coords. 105x290x23 (1:105/290.23)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 177 of 300
 From : Chris Carter                        1:105/290.23    .óá 18 Hîÿ 95 03:27
 To   : Brion Lienhart
 Subj : B5 vs. The Evil Midnight Bomber...
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On (15 Nov 95) Brion Lienhart wrote to Chris Carter...

 BL> Bwahahahaha! What brought this on? Delerium Tremens?

No.  It's my shock therapy. ;~)

Chris - carter@teleport.com


... Wile E. Coyote - Super-Genius

--- PPoint 1.98
 * Origin: Grid Epsilon Coords. 105x290x23 (1:105/290.23)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 178 of 300
 From : David Hilling                       1:262/32        .óá 18 Hîÿ 95 10:49
 To   : Myra I Fox
 Subj : Terry Pratchett
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 MIF> No they are by another British humor/fantasy author named Terry
 MIF> Pratchett.  I would predict if you like Tom Holt then you would like
 MIF> his books too.

Have you read The Bromeliad by Terry Pratchett?  That one was a lot of fun.



... "Kissing girls is a goodness.  It beats hell out of card games."
---
 À Blue Wave/DOS v2.21 [NR] À
--- Renegade v10-05 Exp
 * Origin: The Gallifrey BBS * 614-867-2812,,77 * Zoom 28.8k (1:262/32)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 179 of 300
 From : David Hilling                       1:262/32        .óá 18 Hîÿ 95 10:49
 To   : All
 Subj : Favorites
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Are there any other Robert Heinlein fans out there? All this TV
SF stuff is all well and good, but books are fun, too.
Speaking of which, has anyone heard of a release date for Julian May's
Magnificat?  I really don't believe that Denis is Fury, and if
the publisher would ever turn loose of it I could find out.  Besides,
I've grown very fond of Uncle Rogi.

I'd also be interested in hearing about anything new from Christopher
Stasheff, as long as it's not another Warlock book.  Does he have
some kind of bet going with Anne McCaffrey or what?

... Thou shalt remember the 11th commandment and keep it wholly. - L. Long
---
 À Blue Wave/DOS v2.21 [NR] À
--- Renegade v10-05 Exp
 * Origin: The Gallifrey BBS * 614-867-2812,,77 * Zoom 28.8k (1:262/32)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 180 of 300
 From : Frank Swarbrick                     1:104/825       .óá 18 Hîÿ 95 14:35
 To   : All
 Subj : Oubliette!X-Files is back
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12  92-0022
Now *this* is The X-Files.  And utterly awesome episode.  There was a
blurb in the paper about this episode, and that it was extra special.
But it also mentioned that season three could be the best season yet.
I didn't necessarily agree with that so I didn't have high hopes for
the episode simply based on that comment.  But I was wrong.  It was
certainly great!

One thing I've noticed, and I'll say it again, is the best episodes
are the ones that *affect* Our Heroes.  And Mulder was definately
affected in this one.

No to mention that it had actual tension.  I don't know that it was
scary in a horror-type manner, but the scene with the camera flashes
in the basement, and the scene with the two girls running defiantely
got my heart racing.

I also liked that it was an actual FBI case, with other agents
involved.  That was one thing that I noticed upon viewing the recent
repeat of "Squeeze," and something that has been sorely missing
recently.  I don't know the last time we have actually seen other FBI
people participate in the case (not including the three parter, of
course, which doesn't count anyway).  We did have "F.emasculata," but
those were federal marshalls or some such thing.  Anyway, I liked it.

And the bad guy was *really* creepy.  We haven't seen one that creepy
in a long time either, perhaps not since "Irresistable."  Certainly
none this season.  DPO was somewhat, but I kind of felt sorry for him.
2Shy I didn't think was all that scary.  The guy in "The Walk" was
just plain sad (not bad, just not menacing), and Nitche in "The List"
was hardly even there.  Same for the nut in "Clyde Bruckman's Final
Repose."  We didn't see much of him, and what we saw was just rather
pityable.

I may have to reconcider my opinion on the third season though.  We've
only had eight episodes, and of them four were great ("The Blessing
Way" pehaps not so much, but deinately "Paperclip," "Clyde Bruckman's
Final Repose" and "Oubliette").  Of the four remaining I'd have to say
that "The List" was the only one that I didn't enjoy much at all.

And, of course, next week looks to be the return of the government
conspiracy stuff, at least as much as you can tell from their lame
"scenes" (which tell you even less than Babylon 5's terrible ones).

        Frank

... I Want To Believe -- The X-Files
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12
 * Origin: The Bailey Information Exchange BBS, 28.8k v.fc  (1:104/825.0)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 181 of 300
 From : Kay Shapero                         1:102/524       .óá 18 Hîÿ 95 20:14
 To   : Chris Ogniben
 Subj : Re: Vir Cotto
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Nov 15 10:13>, Chris Ogniben (1:2604/568) wrote to Jon Helis:

 CO>   Maybe Londo will try to kill the Shadow's or find some way to
 CO>help the others.  And get killed himself for this.

I think his vision will come true, he will become Emperor, and be killed by
G'Kar.  Probably kill G'Kar at the same time.  In the most flamboyant, grand
opera style, to be sure.

--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 182 of 300
 From : David Reffitt                       1:280/341       .cê 19 Hîÿ 95 08:28
 To   : Jeff Hancock
 Subj : Re: Vir Cotto
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Very interesting point. So, they would not consider givinng the job to Vir?


---
 * Origin: Beyond the Pale 913-384-1577 (1:280/341)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 183 of 300
 From : David Johnston                      1:342/14        .cê 19 Hîÿ 95 00:29
 To   : Mark Holtz
 Subj : Quickening Effects
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
-> TR> Christopher Lambert wouldn't committ because of his blindness.
-> Lambert is blind? This is news to me..... but then, I don't keep up
-> with Lambert.

Am I the only one who interpreted this sentence as "because of his lack
of ability to see the potential"?

--- PCBoard (R) v15.21/100
 * Origin: Freddy's Place - Edm. AB - 28.8K (403) 456-4241 (1:342/14)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 184 of 300
 From : David Little                        1:106/7315      .óá 18 Hîÿ 95 19:35
 To   : Ed Brannin
 Subj : red dwarf
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
-=<( Ed Brannin used the Jedi Mind Trick on me! )>=-

 EB> anyone here like red dwarf?

        Yo!! Whatcha wanna converse about?!?

                                        -=The DoLittle 8-)=-

... "Are you sure your sanity chip is fully in?" -- Kryten
--- FreeMail & Blue Wave/TAG v2.21
 * Origin: The Wizard's Realm ** (713) 946-7315 ** (1:106/7315)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 185 of 300
 From : Mark Holtz                          1:203/1701      .cê 19 Hîÿ 95 14:32
 To   : Frank Swarbrick
 Subj : The Invaders
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
When Frank Swarbrick typed to All, strange things happened, like....

 FS> I'm sitting here watching The Invaders (the new mini-series) and was
 FS> wondering if anyone else finds it as boring as I do.  Unbelievable!

"The Invaders (A Q-M Production)" shows up on the SciFi Channel. However, the
mini series shares elements from the original 60's series in name and minor
elements only. Gee wiz, if you intend to remake an old series, at least come
fairly close to the original concept as possible....

... Happy hour is over, Taco Beelzebub! - Dr. Forrester
___ Blue Wave/DOS v2.21 [NR]

--- Telegard/QWK v2.99.g02
 * Origin: Deep Space Franchise (916) 721-1701 (1:203/1701)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 186 of 300
 From : Ed Brannin                          1:2613/135      .îí 20 Hîÿ 95 21:29
 To   : David Little
 Subj : Re: red dwarf
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 -=> Quoting David Little to Ed Brannin <=-

 DL> @PID: BWTAG 3.05 [Eval]
 DL> @MSGID: 1:106/7315.0 30af7551
 DL> -=<( Ed Brannin used the Jedi Mind Trick on me! )>=-

 EB> anyone here like red dwarf?

 DL> Yo!! Whatcha wanna converse about?!?

 DL> -=The DoLittle 8-)=-

 DL> ... "Are you sure your sanity chip is fully in?" -- Kryten
 DL> -!- FreeMail & Blue Wave/TAG v2.21

 DL>  ! Origin: The Wizard's Realm ** (713) 946-7315 ** (1:106/7315)

 nnothing much.  u see last episode on pbs channel 21?  i forgot 2 tape it.


... ******  "Welcome To Hell, Here's Your Copy of Windows '95." -Satin
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

--- QScan/PCB v1.18b / 01-0527
 * Origin: Wise BBS - Irondequoit, NY (1:2613/135)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 187 of 300
 From : Nicolai Shapero                     1:102/524       .cê 19 Hîÿ 95 09:06
 To   : Mark Jones
 Subj : In general
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Nov 13 21:57>, Mark Jones (1:105/302.47) wrote to Ml Sands:

 MJ>   And so did slave-owners.  And so *will* slave-owners in the
 MJ>future,
 MJ>if ever there are any.

There are slave owners NOW in the world.  As long as someone sees some gain to
be made by holding slaves, there will be slaves.

-- Nicolai Shapero, the Mad Russian Sysop of StormGate Aerie

--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 188 of 300
 From : Jo De Man                           2:291/1102.10   .óá 18 Hîÿ 95 08:52
 To   : Tommy Kellerman
 Subj : Species
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
*** Answering a msg posted in area PERSONAL_MAIL (Personal mail).

Hallo Tommy!

15 Nov 95, Tommy Kellerman writes to Jo De Man:

 TK> In a message dated 06-Nov-95 19:57:00, Jo De Man wrote:
 JDM>> Hallo Tommy!
 TK>       Yo Jo...
 TK>> Does anyone out there know anything about this movie called
 TK>> "Species"
 JDM>> I haven't sen it but from what I hear on Fidonet you wouldn't
 JDM>> want to...
 TK>     What have you heard about it ? In European MTV it won't go a
 TK> single day without at least ten screenflashes, but UK always get ahead
 TK> on us at the movie part.

Everybody who has seen it says the same things : nice effects, average thriller.
Once you are onto the plot, you just know what is going to happen.
Bye
Jo De Man

--- FMail/386 1.02
 * Origin: Space for rent (2:291/1102.10)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 189 of 300
 From : Michael Harper                      1:123/10        .îí 20 Hîÿ 95 09:29
 To   : The Raven
 Subj : Appearances
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 >      I remember reading some spoiler material that said we'd
 > be seeing Kosh
 > again, but not in the way we expect... now that I've seen the
 > "public Kosh",
 > I think that "not in the way we expect" means "what he looks
 > like when no one
 > else is looking".

Yeah, I've got the same stuff. Joe loves to tease us... Kosh probably looks like
Peter Falk or Walter Matthau. :)

                Mike
--- RA/FD/FMail
 * Origin: The Electric Fox - Memphis,TN, U.S.A.  1-901-327-1008 (1:123/10)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 190 of 300
 From : Justin Singh                        1:250/750       .óá 18 Hîÿ 95 18:45
 To   : All
 Subj : External Events
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Help me!
My main Batch file for running FD screws up everytime I try to runa external
Event! When people call , fd goes into the brd fine but whenevrr I wanna run an
external event, it just exits to dos.
Here is my RuN.BAt
@Echo Off
GOTO FD
:FD
 @ECHO OFF
 CLS
 CD\FD
 FD

IF ErrorLevel 200 DOBBS
IF ERRORLEVEL 10 GOTO END
IF ERRORLEVEL 5 GOTO BADINIT
IF ERRORLEVEL 3 GOTO NOSPACE
IF ERRORLEVEL 1 FATAL
IF ERRORLEVEL 100 GOTO MAILIN




:BADINIT
c:
cd\smodem
dl data144
GOTO FD

:MAILIN
c:
cd\fd
amail.bat
GOTO FD


:FATAL
ECHO #### FATAL FRONT DOOR ERROR! ####
CD\FD

:END
Ok maybe someone could help me by showing me howto setup and external event
----Or how to make my exit on mail think work ( :MAILIN) Whenever my system
tries to exit on mail, it just goes to DOS with errorlevel 100.
* SPITFIRE v3.5
--- Alexi/Mail 2.02b (#10000)
 * Origin: -=DFC Online: Toronto, On, Canada=- (1:250/750)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 191 of 300
 From : The Raven                           1:363/309       .cê 19 Hîÿ 95 02:33
 To   : Todd Sullivan
 Subj : Quickening effects
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 TR>      Christopher Lambert wouldn't committ because of his blindness.

 TS> Say /*WHAT*/?!
 TS> Tell me this isn't a hoax, Jack; it's not funny.

     Sorry, no hoax.  The man has been slowly blind slowly for about the
past fifteen years.  At first (re: right around when the Highlander film
came out) it was easily correctible with contacts.  Now he has to wear
*very* thick glasses to see correctly, and even then it isn't perfect.  He'll
be completely blind soon...


 TS> If it's true, it's a tribute to him; he hasn't given up.  Whew!
 TS> Imagining the problems he had to deal with in "Greystoke" alone...

     In an interview in Premiere magazine, he said that action scenes are
getting harder and harder to do, because more "off-screen" help is needed to
make sure he hits his marks.  Swordfights, in particular, are getting harder
because it requires memorizing intricately precise choreography, with no
room at all for improvisation (as Adrian Paul is wont to do...)  Take a look
at the work he did in "Mortal Kombat":  a lot of scenes where he's sitting,
walking in straight lines across empty spaces, walking side-by-side with
someone else, or only taking one or two steps in crowded rooms.  Things you
don't really notice as minimal until you actually look at it...
     I'll tell you the truth, Todd, my hat's off to the man.

     Jack Butler



... Life is full of little surprises.
--- Blue Wave/RA v2.20 [NR]
 * Origin: Forethought BBS -=- Orlando, FL -=- 407-679-6561 (1:363/309)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 192 of 300
 From : The Raven                           1:363/309       .cê 19 Hîÿ 95 02:34
 To   : Karmin St.Jean
 Subj : Q HEADING FOR VOYAGER
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 KS> It is not our Q (nor Q2 (Corbin Bernsen)) who is being tried. It is
 KS> another Q, (played by Gerritt Graham (can we say "Stan Putterman", boys
 KS> and girls?))

     Close, but no cigar.  Stan Putterman (and, for that matter, George
Francisco) is played by Eric Pierpoint.  Gerritt Graham plays Matthew Sikes
(not to mention Achilles from "Robot Jox").

     Jack Butler



... Did you ever try to lipread a muppet?
--- Blue Wave/RA v2.20 [NR]
 * Origin: Forethought BBS -=- Orlando, FL -=- 407-679-6561 (1:363/309)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 193 of 300
 From : Ed Brannin                          1:2613/135      .cê 19 Hîÿ 95 15:33
 To   : Paul Goverts
 Subj : Re: red dwarf
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 -=> Quoting Paul Goverts to Ed Brannin <=-

 -=> Quoting Ed Brannin to All <=-

 EB> anyone here like red dwarf?

 PG> i Do!

neat!  Is it Just Me or is That Beatle Stompink Too Hard? -Kryten

 PG> Paul

 PG> ... "Yield to temptation, it may not pass your way again." - L. Long



... I'm Still Trying To Find My Tag Line Express Tagline File 4 Blue Wave.
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

--- QScan/PCB v1.18b / 01-0527
 * Origin: Wise BBS - Irondequoit, NY (1:2613/135)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 194 of 300
 From : Mark Holtz                          1:203/1701      .cê 19 Hîÿ 95 23:59
 To   : All
 Subj : Upcoming Babylon Five Episodes
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
US Air Week      PCode Episode Title
-==============- -===- -=====================================================-
Nov 20-Nov 26 95 303   A Day in the Strife
Nov 27-Dec  3 95 305   Passing Through Gethsemane
-                304   Voices of Authority
-                306   Dust to Dust
-                307   Exogenesis
-                308   Messages From Earth
-                309   Point Of No Return
-                310   Severed Dreams
-                311   Ceremonies of Light and Dark
-                312   A Late Delivery from Avalon
-                315   [Unknown]-Part 1
-                316   [Unknown]-Part 2
-                313   Sic Transit Vir

BABYLON 5: Episode Information and Spoilers

By David Strauss & Others (dstrauss@netcom.com, replayer@genie.com)

Season Three: I am become Death, the Destroyer of Worlds

  "The Babylon Project was our last, best hope for peace...it failed.  But in
  the year of the Shadow war, it became something greater...our last, best
  hope for victory. The year is 2260. The place: Babylon 5."

  -- Commander Susan Ivanova, Opening Narration, Season Three.

3. (303) A Day in the Strife - Written by JMS.  As Garibaldi tries to deal
with the increasingly powerful Nightwatch, an alien probe makes first contact
with the station. G'Kar tries to solidify his position among the Narn.  Londo
calls in the favor that Delenn owes him. Basically an episode in which
everything that can go wrong goes wrong.

4. (305) Passing Through Gethsemane - Written by JMS.  Lyta Alexander returns
to the station at Kosh's behest. Theo discovers that he may have a hidden
past.

5. (304) Voices of Authority - Written by JMS.  Ivanova and Marcus enlist
Draal's help to attempt to contact more of the First Ones.

6. (306) Dust to Dust - Written by JMS. An addictive drug spreads through the
station, prompting a factfinding visit by Bester. G'Kar reaches a turning
point. Walter Koenig guest stars as Bester. Kosh...we'll see him again outside
his suit in "Dust to Dust," but in a somewhat unconventional fashion....

7. (307) Exogenesis - Written by JMS. Marcus and Dr. Franklin combat an
invasion by parasitic aliens that attach themselves to humans.

8. (308) Messages From Earth - Written by JMS. Sheridan discovers a connection
between President Clark and a sinister figure, leading to a confrontation with
the Earth military. The Nightwatch attempt to take over the station.

9. (309) Point Of No Return - Majel Barrett plays Emperor Turhan's Third Wife,
Lady Morella, a prophetess and seer.

10. (310) Severed Dreams - Major Twist in Babylon series.

11. (311) Ceremonies Of Light and Dark - We find out more about the
relationship between Delenn and Lennier.

13&14. (315&316) [Unknown] - Sinclair arrives to try and bring Babylon 4
forward in time.

From JMS....

* There will be an Ivanova romance...but not necessarily with whom you might
  expect.
* Vir is *not* leaving the show. We're making some room for him to do his new
  sitcom; he's in episodes 3 and 5 so far, and more to come, of season 3.
* You'll be seeing more of Zack Allen.
* New characters: well, there's Marcus Cole, a Ranger assigned permanently to
  Babylon 5, played by British actor Jason Carter; we'll see Lyta Alexander
  more this year; and Theo...what can I say about Theo...well, perhaps better
  to let you see for yourself.
* We do plan to continue our practice of getting more ambitious each season;
  we saw virtually none of the homeworlds in year one; in year two we began to
  see more of Narn, and Centauri Prime, with some locations in the latter. We
  will continue to expand in each following year; in year three, we plan to
  show Minbar, more of Centauri Prime, the Narn homeworld, Earth and *maybe*
  the Vorlon homeworld, if I can figure out how to do it at this stage without
  totally imploding the show. New sets: yes, and we're creating situations in
  which we can see more of Earth, Mars, our other local planets, plus Narn,
  Centauri, Minbari and one other major world. As the Shadow War cranks into
  gear, you're going to need a place to meet in security and plan for it, so
  we're also building that. We'll see more of Draal's place on Epsilon 3.  And
  there's one other major set that we'll see in the first episode, and quite a
  bit thereafter. We'll see Minbar at least once in year three, perhaps more.
  We'll see more of the Epsilon 3 complex this coming season, yes.
* What's great is that this season, we haven't had one single episode on the
  level of War Prayer or Infection or Grail, some of our weaker first season
  eps.  The worst we've done is pretty darned good. What we're now working for
  in year three is that they're all better than that at their baseline rating.
  And so far, they're killer . . .  We're also doing some major EFX blow-outs
  of a type other than "they go into space and shoot stuff." Very interesting,
  creative, offbeat stuff.
* Never said the shadow war would be over in one year. Only that it wouldn't
  last three.
* What is the origin of the Human/Minbari connection? You'll find out this
  very season (year three), in no uncertain or ambiguous terms. You're
  assuming that the relationship you saw between Delenn and Sinclair was a
  romantic one. It was a close one, on her part in particular, but not based
  on romance.  We'll explain what that means in year three.
* Yes, the Rangers will play a more important part in year three, and
  Sinclair's part in it will be revealed.
--
David Strauss / dss2k@virginia.edu  <*>
Home Page: http://www.eskimo.com/~dstrauss/
Administrator, New York Islanders Mailing List
The Psi Corps is your friend.  Trust the Corps.

--- MsgPost 1.1
 * Origin: Deep Space Franchise (916) 721-1701 (1:203/1701)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 195 of 300
 From : Shawn Merrow                        1:3407/14       .îí 20 Hîÿ 95 01:00
 To   : Anthony Van Deyl
 Subj : Highlander
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Any one from the highlands of Scotland is a Highlander.

--- QScan/PCB v1.16b / 01-0024
 * Origin:  (1:3407/14)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 196 of 300
 From : Shawn Merrow                        1:3407/14       .îí 20 Hîÿ 95 01:51
 To   : The Raven
 Subj : Lambert
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Where did you hear he was going blind. If he is he did a good job in
Highlander 3.

--- QScan/PCB v1.16b / 01-0024
 * Origin:  (1:3407/14)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 197 of 300
 From : ROBERT LIDGREN                      1:134/10        .cê 19 Hîÿ 95 19:05
 To   : KAREN RODGERS
 Subj : X-FILES
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Hi Karen!

I liked your response to the quote re: X-Files stories getting boring.

Perhaps the very toughest thing for any top-notcxh series to do is keep
their STORIES at a high level of excellence week after week.  I think,
on the whole, though, X-Files has many more "hits" than misses.

By ther way, I've included X-Files "links" on my new Web Page.

Feel free to check it out at:

http://www2.logicnet.com/robert.lidgren


PLEASE bear in mind that I am NEW to HTML and writing Web Pages but I'm
pretty happy with the results.  The links I've included seem to be
pretty reliable and allow you to "surf" off to a myriad of other points
too.
--- PCBoard 15.2
 * Origin: 32 lines 40 Gig BBS, Realtime InterNet SLIP (403)299-9900 (1:134/10)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 198 of 300
 From : Star Hawk                           1:362/708.6     .ÿò 17 Hîÿ 95 01:54
 To   : Jo De Man
 Subj : Weber
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
From my perch I saw this come out of the gravity well from Jo De Man:

  [> Jo De Man [> Met the guy .. waw; If you don't mind my asking, how
  [> did that happen? Talk about anything interesting?

     He was a guest at LibertyCon this summer, and i listened to him talk about
a lot of different subjects [some of which cannot be retold, because he asked
that they not be]; including his work...

  [> Jo De Man [> tell me if I've missed any books (kind of hard to get
  [> a hold of them in Belgium)

     OK... [list edited a little...]

  [> -Insurrection
  [> -Crusade

     Unsure if there will be any more novels set in the Starfire RPG universe,
but it's always possible.

  [> -Oath of Swords (hope he writes a sequel to that one)

     You're in luck, he said that there's more of Bahzell's travels coming down
the road [exactly when i don't know].  He also said that the cover artist blew
it with the ears of Bahzell and Brandark; hradani ears are more like those of a
fox, and are closer to the top of the head rather than the sides.

  [> -Mutineers' Moon & Armageddon Inheritance (gimme more!)

     There may be one more book in this `universe' to be written sometime in the
future.

  [> -Path of the Fury (!)

     I think this one was a stand-alone, with no follow-up planned [to the best
my knowledge].

  [> -Honor Harrington
  [>      On Basilisk Station
  [>      Honor of the Queen
  [>      Short Victorious War
  [>      Field of Dishonor
  [>      Flag in Exile

     That's the complete Harrington series published to date.  FLAG IN EXILE
hadn't been released at the time of the con, and David Weber was telling us
stories about the cover art for that book.  Seems that the Graysons based their
knowledge of swords and sword duels from Japanese samurai films, so of course
they didn't get it exactly right...  Their swords differ from the standard
Japanese blades in that the top edge is also sharpened about a third of the way
from the point, sort of like a bowie knife.
     You list matches mine; if he has published anything else, i don't know of
it.

  [> Jo De Man [> Any new ones forthcoming?

     Not in the immediate future, to the best of my knowledge; but you might
want to pick up three books written by Steve White [Weber's coauthor on the
Starfire books], THE DISINHERITED, LEGACY, and DEBT OF AGES, from Baen Books.
The first one [DISINHERITED] is the strongest, but the sequels don't drop off
too much [even though White turns the storyline in a weird direction, or two, in
them].

                                        Star Hawk, the EchoTrickster

--- MacWoof Eval:23Dec93
 * Origin: William Bull Hedrick @ Hawk Haven's Orbital Point (1:362/708.6)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 199 of 300
 From : David Hilling                       1:262/32        .cê 19 Hîÿ 95 20:04
 To   : Todd Sullivan
 Subj : Casting Pern
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 AH> Hey, is this just idle speculation or has somebody in Hollywood started
 AH> to actually think about this?

 TS> I have no idea; I'd like to see it happen, but McCaffery's lawyers are
 TS> a nasty bunch; ask why Brigadoon isn't called PernNet any more.

I think a lot of us would like to see it happen, but I don't know if
it's going to be a bigger disappointment if they make the movie or if
they don't. Look at how many Grade A novels get turned into Grade B
(or worse) movies.  Dune, Nightfall, and The Puppet Masters come
immediately to mind. On the other hand, maybe that gang of nasty
lawyers could sit on them until they do it right. Of course, in two
of the above-cited examples, the authors were dead and couldn't complain.

On the other hand, while we're engaging in idle speculation on casting,
how about Uma Thurman as Marjorie (Friday) Baldwin? Sean Connery as
Lazarus Long? James Gammon as Mike Callahan?
Other movies I would like to see made:
Oath of Fealty (Niven/Pournelle)
I, Robot (Asimov, and Ellison has already done a pretty fair screenplay)
Stardance (Robison & Robinson)
Lucifer's Hammer (again Niven and Pournelle)
       ***and of course***
Stranger in a Strange Land
I've been hearing rumors for a couple of years that this one is in
production or will soon be in production.  Most of these rumors also
say that Tom Hanks will play Mike. I really think that is a little
bit of a stretch at his age, but since I've been praying for this
movie to happen for about 34 years now (since before I would have been
able to get in to see it) I'll take what we can get.

... "Kissing girls is a goodness.  It beats hell out of card games."
---
 À Blue Wave/DOS v2.21 [NR] À
--- Renegade v10-05 Exp
 * Origin: The Gallifrey BBS * 614-867-2812,,77 * Zoom 28.8k (1:262/32)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 200 of 300
 From : David Hilling                       1:262/32        .cê 19 Hîÿ 95 20:04
 To   : Ken Mayes
 Subj : Re: Foundation series?
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
::To: All  From: Ken Mayes  Subj: Re: Foundation series?  ::
----------------------@N

 KM> You might also want to check out the Robot series which
 KM> actually sort of leads into the Foundation series. R Daneel Olivaw
 KM> turns up in the later Foundation novels if I remember right.

Yes, but he doesn't turn up until the whole series has turned to crap.

... "Look kid, when I tell you you're going to fly, believe it." - Aahz
---
 À Blue Wave/DOS v2.21 [NR] À
--- Renegade v10-05 Exp
 * Origin: The Gallifrey BBS * 614-867-2812,,77 * Zoom 28.8k (1:262/32)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 201 of 300
 From : Ken Mayes                           1:393/7         .îí 20 Hîÿ 95 07:37
 To   : Chris Carter
 Subj : Re: B5 -- Coincidence?
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On Sun 19-Nov-1995  9:32p, Chris Carter wrote:

CC> I do apologize for putting words in your mouth (fingers?).  I was
CC> trying to make a point by exaggerating the assertion being made.  It
CC> has been said before that B5 has taken elements from ST, and now I'm
CC> just relating that to the same being said of anime.  In both cases,
CC> I think these assertions are untrue.




        I really think you should watch the Yamato/Star Blazers episode in
question. You'll find that Babylon 5 followed the plot line almost scene for
scene. As far as B-5 taking elements from Trek...I'd tend to agree with you. The
two shows are very different. I have noticed a lot of similarities between B-5
and Yamato, even the designs of some of the Earth ships look suspicious. The
Aggamemnon looks like the Alexi Leanov from 2010, but the Earth Cruiser from the
first season episode when that old Minbari went down to the planet and the
hostile aliens came to try and claim it looked like it could have come right out
of Blazers, gun turrets and all.
        Not trying to pick a fight, just making a friendly observation. :-)



--- CNet/3
 * Origin: The Bard's Tavern Denton, TX (817)243-5110 USR 28.8   (1:393/7)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 202 of 300
 From : John A. Leopard                     1:133/1063      .îí 20 Hîÿ 95 09:09
 To   : All
 Subj : Neelix & Paris
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
        December 2nd-3rd, 1995 at the Georgia World Congress Center in Atlanta,
Georgia Ethan Phillips ("Neelix") and Robert Duncan McNeill ("Paris") (as well
as Penny Juday, Trek set designer) will appear.

        For more information, write "Vulkon, c/o Joe Motes, 12237 SW 50th
Street, Cooper City, Florida 33330-5406 or call (voice) (305) 434-6060.

        The cost is $30.00 for the weekend and $20.00 per day for the
convention.  The hotel rate (for Vulkon) is $71.00 per night.  There will be
videos, costume contest with trophies, a dealer's room and other events.
--- CNet/3
 * Origin: Inside OUT BBS (404) 325-8476 - Atlanta, GA (1:133/1063)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 203 of 300
 From : Kay Shapero                         1:102/524       .òp 21 Hîÿ 95 00:09
 To   : Chris Carter
 Subj : B5 vs. The Evil Midnight Bomber...
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Nov 18 03:27>, Chris Carter (1:105/290.23) wrote to Brion Lienhart:

 BL> Bwahahahaha! What brought this on? Delerium Tremens?

 CC>No.  It's my shock therapy. ;~)

Just you wait - somebody will read the first paragraph of that piece (very funny
btw) and turn it into a rumor that will return here in about 6 months, so
distorted that you won't recognize it... :->


... You put your com link *where?*

--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 204 of 300
 From : David Reffitt                       1:280/341       .òp 21 Hîÿ 95 06:46
 To   : Owen E. Oulton
 Subj : Re: Vir Cotto
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Then what will Cantauri do with Vir?


---
 * Origin: Beyond the Pale 913-384-1577 (1:280/341)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 205 of 300
 From : Marc Zingarelli                     1:226/110       .pä 22 Hîÿ 95 14:50
 To   : The Raven
 Subj : Quickening effects
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12  92-0004
The Raven was overheard talking to Todd Sullivan,
about Quickening effects, in "Joe's Place" and said:

TR> TS> This series follows Duncan because Christopher Lambert (Connor) might
TR> TS> have not been available to do a series, while Adrian Paul (Duncan) was.

TR>     Christopher Lambert wouldn't committ because of his blindness.  He can
TR>fake it long enough to do a movie, but continually trying to do so for a
TR>TV series would have been trying.  Also, he makes more money doing movies
TR>than he could have on TV.

Blindness???  Please elaborate!!  I'd never heard this.

Later
    ---
 LT MARC ZINGARELLI
 Circleville Fire Department
 Local 1232
 Internet:  marc.zingarelli@tcr.com


 * OLX 1.52 * "Another time, MacCleod."

--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12
 * Origin: The Computer Room-Pickerington, Oh (614)861-8377  (1:226/110.0)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 206 of 300
 From : Marc Zingarelli                     1:226/110       .pä 22 Hîÿ 95 14:50
 To   : The Raven
 Subj : Q HEADING FOR VOYAGER
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12  92-0004
The Raven was overheard talking to Karmin St.Jean,
about Q HEADING FOR VOYAGER, in "Joe's Place" and said:

TR> KS> It is not our Q (nor Q2 (Corbin Bernsen)) who is being tried. It is
TR> KS> another Q, (played by Gerritt Graham (can we say "Stan Putterman", boys
TR> KS> and girls?))

TR>     Close, but no cigar.  Stan Putterman (and, for that matter, George
TR>Francisco) is played by Eric Pierpoint.  Gerritt Graham plays Matthew Sikes
TR>(not to mention Achilles from "Robot Jox").

Gary Graham who played Sikes played in another episode called Cold Fire
dealing with Kess's psychokinetic powers and the caretakers companion.


Later
     ---
 LT MARC ZINGARELLI
 Circleville Fire Department
 Local 1232
 Internet:  marc.zingarelli@tcr.com


 * OLX 1.52 * "Any antique dealer on Hudson street can tell you that."

--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12
 * Origin: The Computer Room-Pickerington, Oh (614)861-8377  (1:226/110.0)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 207 of 300
 From : Bianca Wesslak                      1:132/152       .òp 21 Hîÿ 95 16:59
 To   : Mark Jones
 Subj : Questions, But Are T
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
From a woman with an overactive imagination.

 BW> 1.  we will not be able to go very far on large tanks of fuel
 MJ> ...but farther than we could go on *small* tanks of fuel.

Yes but it would take years to get anywhere.  Just going to our nearest
star would take a long time.  do we have the cargo space for years worth of
travel.  Would we have to build genration ships?

 MJ> Nuclear energy is far safer than many other kinds.  (The same week the
 MJ> media was having hysterics about Three Mile Island lo those many years
 MJ> ago now, over fifty people died when a coal processing plant blew up.
 MJ> So far nobody has been killed by TMI.)

 Oh ever hear of radiation poisoning.  case in point, the russians that
 were in the epicenter and the surrounding are of chenobyl.  Not to mention
 now that because of nuclear bombs and chenobyl every baby born now has some
 plutonium in their lungs.  We also have  radioactive stuff in our
 stratosphere that takes way to long to become safe.  Some of the nuclear
 energy that we are messing around with and that we would have to use has way
 to long half life spans.  some of the half life that it would take would be
 many thousands of years in the future.  Probably wouldn't be stable until
 another ice age has passed.  I'm presuming TMI is something to do with
 nuclear energy.



... Farfromflopin (n): German for "bra".
--- Blue Wave v2.12 [NR]
 * Origin: The Cereal Port BBS (OS/2) Rindge,NH 603-899-3335 (1:132/152)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 208 of 300
 From : Nancy Crockett                      1:170/600       .pä 22 Hîÿ 95 15:07
 To   : Todd Sullivan
 Subj : The Invaders
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 TS> FS> I'm sitting here watching The Invaders (the new mini-series) and was
 TS> FS> wondering if anyone else finds it as boring as I do.  Unbelievable!
 TS> FS> Not to mention bad acting, cliched writing, and a plot that really
 TS> FS> makes no sense. I never saw the series, but I bet it was much better
 TS> FS> than this.  Sheesh, very disappointing.

     I watched the Invaders miniseries as well. I have the original series on
tape from the sci-fi channel. I like the original and liked the star, Roy
Thinnes a lot. However, when they did this mini series, they used his name in
big letters in the credits and gave him a small part (he passed on the journal
to Scott Backulas character). It was just as well, because he seems to have
forgotten how to act. I do like Scott Backula, which was the saving grace. They
also changed a lot of things about the aliens. They didn't "shake" and cause
things, they didn't smoke or breath fumes, and when they died, their remains
were ash, instead of flies. It seems they took several liberties with a good
series and screwed up.

... "Forrest. I never thanked you for saving my life." Lt. Dan
--- FMail 1.02
 * Origin: Tulsa Chat BBS-Tulsa, Ok-(918) 234-1352 (1:170/600)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 209 of 300
 From : Nancy Crockett                      1:170/600       .pä 22 Hîÿ 95 15:10
 To   : Paul Goverts
 Subj : red dwarf
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
     I also like Red Dwarf. My husband and I watched a friends tapes and noone
else we know besides him knows much about it. It has been a couple of years
though since I've seen them. I have seen it listed in the sattelite guide, but
haven't tuned in. There is always something else going on, or it is too late. It
was a great show though, and has a lot of good things to quote!
     Is it still being filmed?

... Smith & Wesson: The original point and click interface.
--- FMail 1.02
 * Origin: Tulsa Chat BBS-Tulsa, Ok-(918) 234-1352 (1:170/600)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 210 of 300
 From : Nancy Crockett                      1:170/600       .pä 22 Hîÿ 95 15:17
 To   : The Raven
 Subj : Highlander:  New Season
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
     Hey! I was just reading messages and noticed you and Marc talking about
Highlander, the series, my favorite show. I have been trying to find people to
talk about it with and haven't had much success. My husband and I are members of
the official Highlander club in Denver and went there in October for the
convention. Adrian Paul, Stan Kirsch, Jim Byrnes, and Peter Wingfield were
there. Also the producer, writer and sword master. We had a great time and got
pictures and autographs and spent way to much money.
     Are you interested enough in Highlander to join a few of us in watching the
series from the beginning? I have pre-recorded euro versions and a surround
sound system. If you are, meet us at Pizzettis at 10910 E. 31st on Dec. 1st at
6:30. My husband and I will be wearing Highlander T-shirts. We will probably
watch the first 3 or 4 episodes that night and get together again probably about
once a month.

... Error 3032 - Recursion error. See error 3032.
--- FMail 1.02
 * Origin: Tulsa Chat BBS-Tulsa, Ok-(918) 234-1352 (1:170/600)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 211 of 300
 From : Nancy Crockett                      1:170/600       .pä 22 Hîÿ 95 15:26
 To   : David Johnston
 Subj : Quickening Effects
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 DJ> -> TR>      Christopher Lambert wouldn't committ because of his
 DJ> -> blindness.
 DJ> -> Say /*WHAT*/?!
 DJ> ->
 DJ> -> Tell me this isn't a hoax, Jack; it's not funny.

     Hello, David. I was just reading messages and I am excited to find several
Highlander fans on here. I was just about to give up on finding anybody who
wanted to talk about it. I can confirm that I have also heard about Christopher
Lamberts near blindness. He normally wears glasses, but had to take them off to
film. From what I hear, that made sword fights a little tricky!
     My husband and I are members of the official Highlander club out of Denver.
We went to the Highlander convention there in October. Four of the actors, the
producer, the writer and the swordmaster were there. It was great!
     If you are interested enough in Highlander to meet a few other fans who
like it and watch the series from the beginning together, join us at Pizzettis
at 10910 E. 31st on Dec 1st at 6:30. We will probably watch the first 3 or 4
episodes that night. I have pre-recorded euro-versions and a surround sound
system. Oh yeah, at Pizzettis, look for my husband and I who will be wearing
Highlander T-shirts.
     Please write to me as well!

... Enter any 12-digit prime number to continue.
--- FMail 1.02
 * Origin: Tulsa Chat BBS-Tulsa, Ok-(918) 234-1352 (1:170/600)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 212 of 300
 From : Nancy Crockett                      1:170/600       .pä 22 Hîÿ 95 15:37
 To   : All
 Subj : Highlander
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Do you like Highlander, the series?
Do you like it well enough to watch it from the beginning with other Highlander
fans? (Euro-Versions)
If so, or if you would just like to meet with some other Highlander fans, please
meet us at Pizzettis at 10910 E. 31st on Dec 1st at 6:30. We will probably watch
the first 3 or 4 episodes that night. I have pre-recorded Euro-Versions and a
surround sound system. We will probably meet about once a month or so when ever
everyone can get together after that to watch the rest.
Also, my husband and I are members of the official Highlander club out of Denver
and would like to share info from them. We are also members of Adrian Pauls fan
club, PEACE. We went to the Highlander convention in October where four of the
actors, the producer, the writer, and the swordmaster attended. We spent
entirely too much money, but we had a great time!
Even if you don't attend, please write to me about Highlander. I love to talk
about past episodes, current episodes, the actors, you name it.

... Only 19,999 lines of C++ to my next ski trip...
--- FMail 1.02
 * Origin: Tulsa Chat BBS-Tulsa, Ok-(918) 234-1352 (1:170/600)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 213 of 300
 From : Nancy Crockett                      1:170/600       .pä 22 Hîÿ 95 15:39
 To   : Anthony Van Deyl
 Subj : Highlander
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
     It is great to see others talking about Highlander, please read my message
to ALL on Highlander. Write me anytime!

... I have a dream... DIR C: 999,937,498,127 bytes free.
--- FMail 1.02
 * Origin: Tulsa Chat BBS-Tulsa, Ok-(918) 234-1352 (1:170/600)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 214 of 300
 From : Brent Turcotte                      1:225/330       .îí 20 Hîÿ 95 14:38
 To   : Brandon Wolgast
 Subj : Foundation series?
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 Brandon_W> Long ago (way back in my sophomore year of high school) I read
 Brandon_W> about half way through "Foundation" and never finished it. Just
 Brandon_W> recently I was at a book store and saw like five Foundation
 Brandon_W> novels.  I'm a big sci-fi fan but just never read these, so of
 Brandon_W> course I want to. My question is, what order do they go in?  I
 Brandon_W> thought "Foundation" was the first one but
 Brandon_W> there is also a "Prelude to Foundation" among others, and unlike
 Brandon_W> for instance the Dune books it doesn't tell anywhere that I can
 Brandon_W> see on the books what order to read them in. So if someone could
 Brandon_W> tell me what order the Foundation books go in I would really
 Brandon_W> appreciate it. Thanks a lot.

Prelude to Fondation, 1988
Forward the Foundation, 1991 or 1992
Foundation, 1951
Foundation and Empire, 1952
Second Foundation, 1953
Foundation's Edge, 1982
Foundation and Earth, 1983

The foundation series is after Asimov's robot novels and his empire
novels.  These fifteen books are all loosely connected into one grand
series.

Complete Robot
The Cave of Steel
The Naked Sun
The Robots of Dawn
Robots and Empire
The Currents of Space
The Star, Like Dust --
Pebble in the Sky
and then Prelude to Foundation

--- DLG Pro v1.0
 * Origin: Fat Agnus - North Bay's BIGGEST BBS! (1:225/330)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 215 of 300
 From : Ritchie Funk                        1:140/122       .òp 21 Hîÿ 95 12:57
 To   : Frank Swarbrick
 Subj : Nowhere Man
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: FastEcho 1.45 10246

-=> Quoting Frank Swarbrick to Ritchie Funk <=-

 FS> I'm a fan.  Haven't missed an episode yet, and I'm also recording
 FS> them.  My favorite episode is "Something About Her," the one where
 FS> Veil was put in a virtual reality type thing and lived another life.

Thank you very much for the episode titles. I'm taping them too that's
why I wanted the titles. My favorite episode so far is where he tries
to find Dave Powers and he finds out they're doing a TV show about his
life.

                   <<< Greetings from TEROK NOR >>>

... Trust no one, deny everything.
--- Blue Wave/RA v2.20 [NR]
 * Origin: The Edge:Your Gaming BBS 306-382-7049, 7039, 7038 (1:140/122)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 216 of 300
 From : Ritchie Funk                        1:140/122       .òp 21 Hîÿ 95 12:57
 To   : Frank Swarbrick
 Subj : Nowhere Man - "crash"
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: FastEcho 1.45 10246

-=> Quoting Frank Swarbrick to All <=-

 FS> Just curious if anyone else has noticed this, in almost every single
 FS> episode of Nowhere Man something made out of glass drops to the floor
 FS> and goes "crash."  I have no idea of the significance, and it may very
 FS> well just be a red herring, but I do find it interesting that they
 FS> almost always manage to have it happen at least once.

I've noticed this too. It's strange... but then again the whole show
is strange. I suppose there is some kind of significance just like
putting the pencil in the cigar. Just another thing to try and figure
out.


                   <<< Greetings from TEROK NOR >>>

... Fighting for peace is like fucking for virginity.
--- Blue Wave/RA v2.20 [NR]
 * Origin: The Edge:Your Gaming BBS 306-382-7049, 7039, 7038 (1:140/122)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 217 of 300
 From : Ritchie Funk                        1:140/122       .òp 21 Hîÿ 95 12:57
 To   : All
 Subj : Nowhere Man
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: FastEcho 1.45 10246
Did anyone see the most recent episode where he meets his father? Was
his father part of the conspiracy or is Tom just getting a little too
paranoid?

                   <<< Greetings from TEROK NOR >>>

... Reality is the leading cause of stress.
--- Blue Wave/RA v2.20 [NR]
 * Origin: The Edge:Your Gaming BBS 306-382-7049, 7039, 7038 (1:140/122)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 218 of 300
 From : Steven Wesen                        1:271/236       .òp 21 Hîÿ 95 08:02
 To   : Ed Brannin
 Subj : Re: red dwarf
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE 1.11+
What would you like to talk about? there are plenty Dwarfers here.
Steve
His opposite is a dog.

--- GEcho 1.11+
 * Origin: THE TIME MACHINE (804)599-6401 TRAVEL THE PORTALS! (1:271/236)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 219 of 300
 From : Brion Lienhart                      1:213/700.2     .òp 21 Hîÿ 95 08:31
 To   : Kay Shapero
 Subj : Re: Vir Cotto
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On Sat Nov 18, Kay Shapero said to Chris Ogniben:

 CO>   Maybe Londo will try to kill the Shadow's or find some way to
 CO>help the others.  And get killed himself for this.

 -KS>I think his vision will come true, he will become Emperor, and be
 -KS>killed by G'Kar.  Probably kill G'Kar at the same time.  In the most
 -KS>flamboyant, grand opera style, to be sure.

What? He's going to be singing for 15 minutes after he gets stabbed?
8-(;-)
"I am the very model of a modern major power."


--- QM v1.31
 * Origin: Ministry of Peace - Carson City, NV (1:213/700.2)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 220 of 300
 From : Brion Lienhart                      1:213/700.2     .òp 21 Hîÿ 95 08:35
 To   : Star Hawk
 Subj : Weber
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On Fri Nov 17, Star Hawk said to Jo De Man:

  [> -Mutineers' Moon & Armageddon Inheritance (gimme more!)

 -SH>     There may be one more book in this `universe' to be written
 -SH>sometime in the future.

_Flag in Exile_ lists _Heirs to the Empire_ (something like that) as forthcoming
in the book list in front.

 -SH>     You list matches mine; if he has published anything else, i don't
 -SH>know of it.

Well, he is credited in the games Starfire and Starfire Imperium. He also has a
short in _Bolos 3:The [Whatever]_. I think he has a couple of stories in the
Man-Kzin Wars books, but I can't remember which ones.





--- QM v1.31
 * Origin: Ministry of Peace - Carson City, NV (1:213/700.2)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 221 of 300
 From : Mark David                          1:243/86        .òp 21 Hîÿ 95 14:18
 To   : All
 Subj : SAAB 11-19-95
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
         SAAB 11-19-95 episode (sorry, missed the damned title
         again...)

         There's no point in a spoiler warning (even though mine is
         very cool <g>)

         This one had good potential but ended up turning into an
         Emotion Fest(tm) love-in. This one, on the outset, looked
         like it was going to develop into a nice tactical engagement
         which this series so far has been pretty bare on. Moreover,
         it also looked like we were going to learn more about the
         aliens.

         None of the above happened.

         The logical thing to have done when they captured that ship
         was study it's systems and reverse engineer it. That WAS
         being done until the Col. requisitioned it for a suicide
         mission. At that moment, a groan escaped my lips for I KNEW
         what was going to happen next; it was inescapable, as sure as
         night follows day. There was going to be emotion-charged
         speeches, fake moral posturing and a lot of 'character
         development'. Even without watching a second of it, I
         predicted what would happen; the Wildcards would all
         volunteer to go (after much, MUCH soul-searching) even
         though, knowing at the same time that they wouldn't die for
         the stars CAN'T be killed, ruined it completely.

         Even my favorite, Cooper, succumbed to it, but he, thank God,
         kept the waxing to a bare minimum.

         Now that the artistic grievances are behind us, we can move
         onto the logic holes, and man, are they legion.

         First of all, I simply CANNOT SEE why the Saratoga's
         commander would even CONSIDER the possibility of letting the
         most famous (and probably the best) fighter unit in the
         entire navy take on a suicide mission. It's nuts. That's what
         newbies are for <g>.

         And the alien craft...I don't care what anyone says; you just
         CAN'T learn a completely alien interface system in a few
         weeks. That would be like an ultra deep-south Alabama red-neck
         out in the woods learning to read fluent Japanese from a
         single book. No, not even that, for Japanese at LEAST has a
         foundation in the human mind, where as this ship is totally
         and completely alien.

         Speaking of the alien craft, we see our heroes in the role of
         infantry once again as they board the ship. That is NOT the
         place for our invaluable (and increasingly rare) fighter
         pilots. At least we learned something about the design of the
         alien ships (even if just a little) even though it was real
         strange how they waited until they were just about to be
         vaporized before they found an escape pod (man, that was
         cheap). One thing which I didn't expect, though, was how they
         missed; heroes never miss the Only Chance(tm).

         The only really good part in the entire show was the
         impersonation of the Col. <g>. I rarely laugh at loud at TV
         jokes but I did with this one. Heh heh.

         I've said it before and I will say it again; what this show
         needs is more WAR stories and less Emotion Fests(tm). I would
         like to see a good, four-to-six part campaign...yeah, that
         would be good.


 * Origin: °±²Û Electron Castle (613) 824-5074 Û²±° (1:243/86)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 222 of 300
 From : David K. Johnson                    1:2625/122      .cê 19 Hîÿ 95 16:38
 To   : Owen E. Oulton
 Subj : Foundation series?
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

-=> Quoting Owen E. Oulton to Kevin Ahearn on 11-15-95  15:02 <=-
 KA> Sure thing.  The stories, if read in "chronological" order, preoceed
 KA> thusly:
 KA> Prelude to Foundation
 KA> Forward the Foundation
 KA> Foundation
 KA> Foundation and Empire
 KA> Second Foundation
 KA> Foundation's Edge
 KA> Foundation and Earth

 KA> Oddly enough, this is not the order in which the books were written.  The
 KA> first two books on the list were the last two written.

 OEO> True.  Indeed, the original (and, to my mind, only worthwhile)
 OEO> Foundation books, Foundation, Foundation And Empire and Second
 OEO> Foundation were written in the early 1940, and all the others produced
 OEO> over 40 years later, in what I believe to be a misguided attempt to
 OEO> join up the Foundation and Robots series.  I find that they add nothing
 OEO> to the grand vision of the originals, and indeed take away from them in
 OEO> many cases.
 OEO> CFN, O

FMBI but I saw the subject and couldn't resist reading, This series are
old favorites of mine. How are the 2 pre Foundation books ?
I have always ben a bit turned off by the idea of prequels so never read them.
I did like the idea of joining the Robots series with Foundation though.
Always liked Daniel :)   Funny thing though can't stand the idea of
Data from STNG.

Did Asimov do any work on the series in the forward direction, ie after
F&E ? I seen that the copyright is '86 on that. May be something post humos<sp>
will come out.






davy@laserbbs.com

... ...Free Mars!  Get yours while the supply lasts!

---
 þ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20 [NR] þ


--- PCBoard (R) v15.22 (OS/2) 10
 * Origin: The Laser BBS | Cortlandt Manor, NY | 914-734-7045 (1:2625/122)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 223 of 300
 From : Robert Parson                       1:3822/1        .òp 21 Hîÿ 95 14:19
 To   : Jeff Hancock
 Subj : RE: VIR COTTO
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
JEFF had this to say

RP>>        Lennier provides not only a sounding board, but also a manner
RP>>to pass along information that might prove valuable in The Great War.
RP>>He would be in an extremely sensitive position, to say the least, and
RP>>he is openly hostile to Morden.

 JH> When did Lennier meet Morden?

 JH> Does Lennier even know who Morden IS? One would suppose Delenn would
 JH> have told him, but we don't know that.

Oops.  My mistake.  I meant to say that Vir would be in a sensitive position
to provide information to Lennier, and Vir is openly hostile to Morden.
Sorry 'bout that.


Robert (tm)

 * Silver Xpress V4.3 SW23473

--- QScan/PCB v1.18b / 01-0162
 * Origin: Jackalope Junction 501-785-5381 Ft Smith AR (1:3822/1)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 224 of 300
 From : Ruby Tuesday                        1:243/45        .òp 21 Hîÿ 95 18:23
 To   : All
 Subj : canadian stuff
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

has anybody come across any science fictin with "Canadian
content" that's worthwhile?

thanks,
Ruby Tuesday
... OFFLINE 1.41 * Happy aardvark!

--- Maximus 2.01wb
 * Origin: Pandora's Box, Ottawa, Ont. 613-829-1209 (1:243/45)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 225 of 300
 From : Don Bach                            1:3632/65       .òp 21 Hîÿ 95 19:49
 To   : Starwolf
 Subj : Time Tunnel
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 S> Yah, the Tunnel set was impressive, even with those
 S> cheezy Irwin Allen blinky-winkies(tm) everywhere.

Remember, this was created in the '60s.  It wasn't until the early '80s that
blinky lights began disappearing from computers - some still have them.  I
purchased an external modem just so I could watch them.

Actually, the lights are supposed to display the contents of selected memory
locations (on=1, off=0).  They look real pretty when the program is running.  A
good operator could tell if the program was running correctly by the light
sequence.  When a crash occurs, they are invaluable in detecting crash location
and memory contents when the crash occured.

The lights on the "computer" equipment in the Allen shows were larger than life,
but if you had seen an actual computer room of that vintage, it is not far out
of place.

The Kennedy Space Center, Titusville, FL, has a simulated launch of a '60s space
mission (Apollo, I think) set in the original control room.  The blinky lights
are a lot like the ones Allen used.

Don


--- Maximus 2.00
 * Origin: No Regrets - Clinton, Mississippi (601)924-8247 9P-5A (1:3632/65)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 226 of 300
 From : Darre LuAllen                       1:3637/1        .pä 22 Hîÿ 95 15:37
 To   : David Hilling
 Subj : Favorites
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 On 11-18-95 David Hilling sent to All... (and I somehow intercepted it)

 DH> Are there any other Robert Heinlein fans out there? All this TV
 DH> SF stuff is all well and good, but books are fun, too.

You know, some of this TV SF stuff could easily be conpared to R.A.H.
In fact, Space: Above and Beyond reminds me of Starship Troopers something
fierce.  Yes, I am a Heinlein fan.  I can't say that I have read everything
that he has written, but I have enjoyed most of what I've read.  Funny thing:
I still haven't finished Stranger or Time Enough for Love.  Loved M.'s
Children (can't spell today...have to fake it.).  I would love to discuss this
master in detail.  Just remember, I haven't read any of his works in about
five years (bad me...bad me).  I love his attitudes toward writing and the
business in general.  Trying to take the same attitude about my own writing.
Of course, it's kinda hard when you don't have the nerve to submit anything.

As for the other authors you mentioned, I can't say that I've read them.  A
friend pawned Warlock in Spite of Himself off on me once.

"Read this.  You'll like it, especially since you're in the S.C.A."

"I'll try.  No promises."

And a good thing that.  I'm the type of person who either gets into a book
within the first few chapters or doesn't get into it at all.  I just could
not get into the book.  Perhaps it was my frame of mind at the time.  In any
case, I never did manage to read it.  Finally gave up and gave him the book
back.  Of course, I did the same thing with Errol Flynn's auto-bio and I'm a
big fan of his old movies (but I digress...).


Anyway, I'd love to hear your opinion on various Heinlein (or others if I have
read them or not) sories.  By the way, what did you think of Puppet Masters?

                                        Until my star again
                                        passes this way,
                                          - Darre LuAllen

___
___
---
 * OFFLINE 1.56 * Only an idiot would go in there...I'd better get started.


--- Maximus/2 3.00
 * Origin: Cumberland BBS TN 615/526-3347 V34 (1:3637/1)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 227 of 300
 From : Darre LuAllen                       1:3637/1        .pä 22 Hîÿ 95 15:55
 To   : David Reffitt
 Subj : Re: Vir Cotto
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 My appologies for putting my snout into this discussion, but here I go...

 On 11-19-95 David Reffitt wrote to Jeff Hancock...

 DR> Very interesting point. So, they would not consider givinng the job to
 DR> Vir?

The thing to remember is that Vir is a lowly attache and Londo is an
Ambassador.  If Londo were to die before the show finished, then someone
more capable (i.e., someone with a higher social standing) would receive the
job.  In fact, the Centarum does not even want Vir to be Londo's assistant.
In one episode (I forget which one), they sent a replacement.  But Londo
pulled strings and got Vir his job back (although we never saw this
replacement).

Also to consider, the Centarum are more corrupt than most of the gov'ts
currently on Earth (you decide).  So, factors like Bribery and Blackmail
would come into play.  As Vir considers himself above such things (or below
as the Centari would consider him), he would not stand a chance for the job.

Of course, this is all a moot point since Vir would hop the next Flyer to
Minbar if he thought that the Centarum was trying to give him the job.

As always, this is my humble opinion, based on what I read into the show and
Earther politics and societies.

                                        Trying to achieve oneness with
                                        myself (with lots of Brevara)
                                          - Darre LuAllen

"So many fishies left in the sea, So many fishies - but no-one for me..."

___
 * OFFLINE 1.56 * Duck Dodgers in the Twenty Fourth and a Half Century!!!


--- Maximus/2 3.00
 * Origin: Cumberland BBS TN 615/526-3347 V34 (1:3637/1)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 228 of 300
 From : Chris Carter                        1:105/290.23    .åò 23 Hîÿ 95 03:50
 To   : Ken Mayes
 Subj : B5 -- Coincidence?
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On (20 Nov 95) Ken Mayes wrote to Chris Carter...

 CC> It has been said before that B5 has taken elements from ST,
 CC> and now I'm just relating that to the same being said of
 CC> anime.  In both cases, I think these assertions are untrue.

 KM> I really think you should watch the Yamato/Star Blazers
 KM> episode in question. You'll find that Babylon 5 followed the
 KM> plot line almost scene for scene.

Still, this is more likely to be a simple matter of parallel
development, given that epic stories often have similar elements to
them, particularly when both the stories in question are of the same
genre.  I honestly do not believe that JMS has ever lifted anything
from any anime.  I do admit that there is no ready way to prove that
he *didn't* lift stuff, but I've been given little reason not to
believe JMS when he claims not to have been exposed to something.

 KM> I have noticed a lot of similarities between B-5 and Yamato,
 KM> even the designs of some of the Earth ships look suspicious.
 KM> The Aggamemnon looks like the Alexi Leanov from 2010,

The Agamemnon/Leonov design is considered, afaik, to be a practical
design for a spaceship requiring simulated gravity.  The
similarities are no surprise, and still aren't really indicative of
borrowing.

 KM> but the Earth Cruiser from the first season episode when that
 KM> old Minbari went down to the planet and the hostile aliens
 KM> came to try and claim it looked like it could have come right
 KM> out of Blazers, gun turrets and all.

Another thing to consider:  Starship design for B5 is not
necessarily a matter of JMS having been influence by anime.  After
all, he's not the guy who is actually in direct charge of CGI
production.  I'm sure he's thrown a few ideas at the folks at
Foundation Imaging, but if you want to claim that someone's been
lifting ship designs from anime, you'd be more likely to be correct
if you pointed the finger at the folks at Foundation Imaging.
They're much more likely to have been influenced by anime (being
interested in fresh visual concepts) than JMS.

 KM> Not trying to pick a fight, just making a friendly
 KM> observation. :-)

Me too. :)

Chris - carter@teleport.com


... Allow me to continue to reiterate.

--- PPoint 1.98
 * Origin: Grid Epsilon Coords. 105x290x23 (1:105/290.23)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 229 of 300
 From : J Hulley-Miller                     1:107/330       .òp 21 Hîÿ 95 18:48
 To   : Mark Holtz
 Subj : Upcoming Babylon Five Episodes
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: FastEcho 1.45a 60
Greetings Mark,

19 Nov 95 23:59, Mark Holtz wrote to All:

>MH> 3. (303) A Day in the Strife - Written by JMS.
>MH> Londo calls in the favor that Delenn owes him.

I must have missed this. Why does Delenn owe Londo a favour ?

jhm@cnj.digex.net

... Have you crashed your Windows today?
---
 * Origin: * Informatix/2 * (1:107/330)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 230 of 300
 From : Lisa Martin                         1:323/120       .òp 21 Hîÿ 95 16:31
 To   : All
 Subj : FANTASY ART
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12  91-0112
Hello.

Sorry for interrupting?....  I am a new user of "conferences" and also
somewhat of a "fantasy" art enthusiast....i.e, Maitz, Kelly, Vallejo,
etc...and am in need of direction.

So I come to you with a quick question and promise not to bother you
again...

Can anyone suggest a good bbs where I could possibly obtain some fantasy
art pictures?  I am trying to teach myself "graphic art" and well, I am
of the mind that if I am gonna do this then lets do it with stuff I
like....then possibly I might get "it" a bit quicker! (I dare to
dream!<G>)...  Anyway, if you could possibly send me in the direction of
some gifs, jpegs, etc...I would greatly appreciate it.

Thank you in advance.

Pssss... I do not have access to the "internet" so if it is there...no
dice.  But thanx anyway.

Happy Thanksgiving and all....

And dare I say, Engage!<G>

--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12
 * Origin: ChowdaNet BBS  (1:323/120.0)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 231 of 300
 From : Chris Ogniben                       1:2604/568      .pä 22 Hîÿ 95 09:56
 To   : Kay Shapero
 Subj : Re: Vir Cotto
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

   Yeah, that would be cool.. I hate  Londo, and i would like to see
G'kar finally take his life.  Like that dream.  That sure could happen,
and would be awesome.


--- WM v3.11/93-0947
 * Origin: Waterside BBS - NJ - (201) 641-5375 28.8k  (1:2604/568)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 232 of 300
 From : Chris Ogniben                       1:2604/568      .pä 22 Hîÿ 95 10:14
 To   : The Raven
 Subj : B5 VS. TREK, AGAIN.
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

   Well, i think that having fans and trek fans from Babylon 5, go
against Star Trek, and vise versa.. Is as stupid as Star Trek, and Star
Wars, and the Borg and Star Wars.. Why do people do it.. I mean,
everything is in different time zones, and different years.  And,
different technologies.  So, it's stupid to talk about it.


--- WM v3.11/93-0947
 * Origin: Waterside BBS - NJ - (201) 641-5375 28.8k  (1:2604/568)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 233 of 300
 From : Chris Ogniben                       1:2604/568      .pä 22 Hîÿ 95 10:15
 To   : The Raven
 Subj : Quickening effects
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

   Hey if i was an actor, i would go for the money too.. I mean, only a
stupid person would not take a movie deal, and stay with tv.  Since,
you want more money, for the amount of hard work.. And movies are a bit
easier to make, since tv shows are like weekly events.  And actors and
actresses have to work more, for less pay.


--- WM v3.11/93-0947
 * Origin: Waterside BBS - NJ - (201) 641-5375 28.8k  (1:2604/568)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 234 of 300
 From : Kay Shapero                         1:102/524       .pä 22 Hîÿ 95 23:45
 To   : All
 Subj : (1/3) Acronym List
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
ACRONYMS (and things that look like them)
(part 1 of 3)

(last updated November 14, 1995)
This is getting too long again, and I don't see enough of the echo these days to
know what can be culled.  Please send me netmail nominating things to remove
from the monthly list (worry not, everything stays in the full list).  Thanks.

This is the edited list; for the full list (including more detailed definitions
and things not particularly current) file request ACRONYMS.ZIP from StormGate
Aerie (1:102/524).  A couple of notes:

The purpose of this list is to provide folks with a place where they can find
out what all of those strange acronyms they see in here mean without having to
write a lot of "What is that?" messages (goodness knows we've enough traffic in
here already.)  Please don't deluge me with obscure acronyms unless they're
actively in use...)  Also please tell me if you see something not currently in
use so I can delete it.

I post this on BOTH SFFAN and in SF - not everything in here is on topic in the
latter echo!

<g>: Grin, <G>: Great Big Grin), <g,d,r>: Grin, Duck and Run
APA: Amateur Press Association.  Sort of like this bulletin board only each
member prints up his/her own comments and passes them to the Official Collator
(or Official Editor) to fasten together and distribute copies to members.  Most,
but not all, appear monthly or bimonthly.
Authors abbreviated: Agberg = Silverberg, AnneMc = Anne McCaffrey, DeJohn = John
DeChancie, JRRT = J.R.R. Tolkien, KMac = Michael P. Kube-McDowell, LWE =
Lawrence Watt-Evans, PTerry = Terry Pratchett, RAH = Robert A. Heinlein,
Xanthony = Piers Anthony
AWGTHTGTTA?: Are We Going To Have To Go Through This Again?  Alternative form is
AWGTHTGTATA (...Through ALL This Again?).
BIP: Books In Print
BLORF: The sound generated by a very large number of EchoMessages arriving in a
very short period of time.
BNF: Big Name Fan
BOOF: A typo for "book" which appears to have caught on.  It means "book".
"Bif", "bhooves" and "bhoven" have been suggested as the plural of "boof",
possibly rotten "bif" are "barf", "bif in a series are "biffies" and so on.
Really LARGE bif may be called "beef".
BOZON:  Described in the Wunderment echo as: A particle which causes large
problems which can often be looked at in a humourous light; most often applied
to computer hardware and/or software, but not exclusively so.  See the full list
for the delightfully silly details.
BTIC:  But then, I'm crazy.  (Sam Tuirel)
BTW: By The Way
CBIP: Current Book In Progress.  Used when you want to talk about the book
you're reading now but don't need an OOTC because your message is already
on-topic.  (Travis Butler)
CHVC: Columbia House Video Club (Mainly tapes)
CHLC: Columbia House Laserdisc Club (Self-explanatory)
DUFF and TAFF: Respectively the Down Under Fan Fund and the Trans Atlantic Fan
Fund (funds to import fen from same for Worldcons.)  A Mid Atlantic Fan Fund for
well known fuggheads is occasionally suggested...
DUOE: Dried-Up Old Eunuch. To quote Jo Peshek "DUOE was formed in reaction to
the claim of one infamous poster who asserted that an adult novel, or short
story, could NOT be believable or realistic unless it had sex in it. Not just
hand holding, not flirtation, not simple attraction, but full-blown (oops! 8* )
explicit, juicy sex scenes. The poster said anyone who disagreed had to be a
dried-up old eunich...several of us disagreed. We do not object to sexual
content, merely disagree that it MUST appear. Thus was born the DUOE and
Pruney...Pruney usually shows up when a member wants to convey shock (or mock
shock). [This :* is a pruney. KS]
ETOL:  Evil Twin On Line.  For those occasions when you couldn't _possibly_ be
saying the things you really want to say... (Sam Tuirel)
FASA: A game company that made a Star Trek role playing game, before Paramount
(or someone) decided it was a mistake and pulled the rights.  AKA F**A by
someone who agrees with Paramount.  I've never seen it, myself, so couldn't say.
FBT: Frigging Blue Turtleoid.  Refers to the gigantic blue six legged turtle
like critter with several people tied to its back which appears on the cover of
John DeChancie's novel, CASTLE KIDNAPPED.  It does not appear anywhere INSIDE
the book.


--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 235 of 300
 From : Kay Shapero                         1:102/524       .pä 22 Hîÿ 95 23:46
 To   : All
 Subj : (2/3) Acronym List
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
ACRONYMS (and things that look like them)
(part 2 of 3)

FIAWOL: Fandom Is A Way Of Life
FIJAGH: Fandom Is Just A Ghoddam Hobby (or possibly "Ghu-dam hobby" if you're
into invoking fannish ghods [personally I like The Great Spider or The Church of
Herbangelism - "Praise Herbie and Pass the Buck"], note also the fannish
insertion of silent "h"s into things, such as "bheer".)
FILK: Is not an acronym.  It started out life as a typo of "fannish folk songs"
and was adopted by the perpetrators of same.  So Filksongs are fannish
folksongs.  (for more information ask me via e-mail, or see the FILK echo if you
have it available...)
FITB: Fill In The Blank....
F.U.B.S. (fubs) n. [ F(ido) U(sed) B(ook) S(quad)] 1. A pack of hounds ravaging
the countryside in search of a copy of _A Spell for Chameleon_. 2. A gallant
band of FidoNet readers roaming Used Book Stores (UBS) around the world for
books to trade with others (hopefully that the "others" want, in trade for
another book, money, or gratitude). (definition by Will Purvine) Some notables
include Zane Melder & Travis Butler, but a message to All with FUBS in the title
will probably get you the attention you need. (Term credited to Glenn Chambers)
And special blessings on Travis, Keith Stokes, and Lisa Reeves for the FUBS
t-shirt they came up with.
FUGGHEAD: Fannish term meaning roughly airhead, someone whose head is thoroughly
fogged.  One can also consider the "fugg" to be a substitute for the more famous
four letter word beginning with "f".
FYI: For Your Information
GAFIATE:  Get Away From It All (as in drop out of Fandom)
GIWIST: Gee I Wish I'd Said That
ICOCBW: I Could, Of Course, Be Wrong
IIRC: If I Remember Correctly. "The obligatory statement of modesty before
making a sweeping generalization about something read five years ago."
(credited to Travis Butler)
IITYWIMWYBMAD: If I tell you what it means, will you buy me a drink?
IMHO: In My Humble (or Honest) Opinion. Also IMNSHO: In My Not-So Humble Opinion
and IMOBO: In My Own Biased Opinion.
INPO: In No Particular Order
LASFS: The Los Angeles Science Fantasy Society, which is the oldest continuously
meeting science fantasy society in this world (since Oct 17, 1934).  Every
Thursday at 11513 Burbank Blvd., N. Hollywood, CA  91601 telephone (818)
760-9234.
LLTA: Lots and Lots of Thunderous (or Thundering) Applause
LOL: Laughing Out Loud
MLAS: Mind (or Memory) Like A Sieve (variant introduced by Joshua Kronengold,
MLASBWABHII [Mind Like A Steel Bucket With A Bloody Hole In It])
NASFiC:  North American Science Fiction Convention (aka North AmeriCon)
NECROHIPPOSADISM: Not an acronym, and probably self evident, but anyway a
reference to beating a dead horse.
NESFA: The New England Science Fiction Association home of NESFA Press among
other things.  P.O. Box 809, Framingham, MA  01701-0203
OOK!: This is not an acronym - it's the abbreviated form of Ook ook slobber
drool!"  This started out as "Ook ook!" which Ed Buchman introduced to the LASFS
claiming a strange lady told him it meant "your pleasure centers had been
diddled."  He soon modified it to the longer form.
OOP, OP: Out Of Print
OOTC: Obligatory On Topic Comment
OOTQ: Obligatory On Topic Quote
OYDB:  Over _your_ dead body. (Sam Tuirel)
PJF: Pre Joycean Fellowship.  Steven Brust, Pamela Dean, Emma Bull,  Will
Shetterly, Jane Yolen, and Neil Gaiman and various others who consider that
James Joyce did the literary world a disservice by deemphasizing plot.  To quote
Pamela; " We're a bunch of writers who worry about the divorce of so-called
popular and so-called literary values, and hope to reconcile them.  Some of us
don't really blame Joyce for the breakup, and some of us do."
POV: Point Of View
RAH: Robert A. Heinlein
ROFLASTC! (or ROFLASC!): Rolling On The Floor Laughing And Scaring The Cat.
Originated, I'm told by Pamela Dean, who types with a cat on her lap.  Variants
include ROFL!, ROTFLH and SITCLH("ROFL Hysterically", and "Sitting in the chair
LH").  Also ROFLWMCSOIA (While My Cat Stared On In Amazement), ROFLSHIFOMCASMC
(So Hard I Fell Off My Chair And Scared My Cat), and any number of other things
along that line.
ROTBA: Reality On The Blink Again (scientific inaccuracy or just plain
nonsense).
RSN: Real Soon Now
RTFM: Read The Fershlugginer Manual


--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 236 of 300
 From : Kay Shapero                         1:102/524       .pä 22 Hîÿ 95 23:49
 To   : All
 Subj : (3/3) Acronym List
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
ACRONYMS (and things that look like them)
(part 3 of 3)

The Salmon Of Correction:  A useful creature for whapping those who annoy you.
SFBC: Science Fiction Book Club
SFWA:  Science Fiction & Fantasy Writers of America.  Sometimes abbreviated
SFFWA.  Pronounced "sif-wa".
SIASL: Stranger In A Strange Land
SMOF:  Secret Masters of Fandom
ST:TOS, ST:TNG, ST:TAS, ST:TMP, ST:DSN: Respectively Star Trek: The Original
Series, The Next Generation, The Animated Series, The Motion Picture (the first
one), and Deep Space Nine.
TANJ: There Ain't No Justice
TANSTAAFL: There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch
TITLE, NUMBER/BIGGER NUMBER: Not an acronym, but a method of indicating where
you are in a book.  Write the title first, followed by a parenthesis, followed
by the page number you are on, followed by the total number of pages in the
book.  For example, if you were on page 12 of Mort, it would be MORT, 12/285.
Who came up with this is unclear.
TPTB: The Powers That Be
TRQ: To Read Queue.  Also VTRQ "Virtual To Read Queue".
TSTMATS: The Sun, The Moon and the Stars by Stephen Brust.  Good book.
TTBOMK: To The Best Of My Knowledge
TTFN: Ta Ta For Now.
TTYL: Type (or Talk) To You Later
UBS: Used Book Store
WAMKSAM:  Why Are My Kids (or Kitties) Staring At Me?
WIP: Work In Progress
WYLABOCTGWTR, WYLASOMWTC: Would You Like A Bowl Of Cream To Go With That
Remark?, Would You Like A Saucer Of Milk With That Comment?  Created by Steven
Brust (& common in Minneapa)
YAHI, YAMI, YATI: Yet Another (Highlander, Mets, or Trek) Inconsistency
YAWA:  You and what army?   (Sam Tuirel)
YMMV: Your mileage may vary.

----
point of information - a message line preceeded by a > is a quote from a
previous message and not a comment by the current message poster.
another point of information - the moderator of SFFAN is Nicolai Shapero
(1:102/524).  The moderator of SF is David Dyer-Bennet (1:282/341).  The
moderator of FILK is Kay Shapero (1:102/524) (note shameless plug... :->)


--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 237 of 300
 From : Chris Ogniben                       1:2604/568      .pä 22 Hîÿ 95 10:16
 To   : The Raven
 Subj : Quickening Effects
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

  I like those sword fights.  I usually watch the series Highlander
right now, where some other dude is playing the part.  And, he does a
fine job of it.. Perhaps better.  Lambert was cool to, but, i havn't
seen the movie to know who was better for the part.


--- WM v3.11/93-0947
 * Origin: Waterside BBS - NJ - (201) 641-5375 28.8k  (1:2604/568)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 238 of 300
 From : Chris Ogniben                       1:2604/568      .pä 22 Hîÿ 95 10:17
 To   : The Raven
 Subj : Krypton
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

  If your a comic reader, than a collector.. You are missing out on a
great personal buisness or hobby.  I mean, do you realize how much
money you can make by collecting comics, and you still can read them..
But, you make a big profit later in life with them.


--- WM v3.11/93-0947
 * Origin: Waterside BBS - NJ - (201) 641-5375 28.8k  (1:2604/568)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 239 of 300
 From : Chris Ogniben                       1:2604/568      .pä 22 Hîÿ 95 10:19
 To   : Robert Parson
 Subj : RE: VIR COTTO
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

   I doubt Vir is a ranger.  But, i have seen nothing to prove he is..
Since, he didn't show up in the firest of many meetings of rangers and
other people that know about the shadows.  Now, morden maybe this
human being, that works with the shadow's.. But, when you see that cold
stare he had, in the monitors back in a past episode.  You think he was
a shadow using Morden's body.. Those were the cold black dark eyes of
death, when you seen them.


--- WM v3.11/93-0947
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 Msg  : 240 of 300
 From : Chris Ogniben                       1:2604/568      .pä 22 Hîÿ 95 10:22
 To   : David Johnston
 Subj : In General
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

  I was wondering about when this topic, of discussion with Space Above
and Beyond was going to start.  Since, i seen many episodes.  And,
since Space Above and Beyond doesn't have it's own conference.  That, i
thought no one is talking about it online.. Until now, which of course
the science fiction forum, would carry some discussion on it.  How do
you people feel of Vansen, wonder what her whole name is.. Being the
young female leader of the group of fighters.  I guess she does fit in,
only because she is attractive, and has no family, and her past fits
with the present to why she is there.


--- WM v3.11/93-0947
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 Msg  : 241 of 300
 From : Chris Ogniben                       1:2604/568      .pä 22 Hîÿ 95 10:23
 To   : David Johnston
 Subj : Re: B5 -- Coincidence?
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

  Yamato, and a ship on water, converted into a spaceship. . Really
sounds like a good movie or show..


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 Msg  : 242 of 300
 From : Paul Goverts                        1:2613/135      .òp 21 Hîÿ 95 16:28
 To   : David Hilling
 Subj : Favorites
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

-=> Quoting David Hilling to All <=-

 DH> Are there any other Robert Heinlein fans out there? All this TV
 DH> SF stuff is all well and good, but books are fun, too.

Well, I am starting to get into Heinlein, I read Stranger in a Strange
Land for the first time about a month ago...

Paul

... "42? 7 and a half million years and all you can come up with is 42?!"

--- QScan/PCB v1.18b / 01-0527
 * Origin: Wise BBS - Irondequoit, NY (1:2613/135)

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 Msg  : 243 of 300
 From : David Durgee                        1:109/458       .åò 23 Hîÿ 95 06:54
 To   : Ruby Tuesday
 Subj : Canadian stuff
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: InterEcho 1.14 6E011108
In a message dated 11-2195, Ruby Tuesday said to All:

RT>
RT>has anybody come across any science fictin with "Canadian
RT>content" that's worthwhile?

What do you think of Spider Robinson? The last I heard he is living in Nova
Scotia.

Dave
___
 * MR/2 2.22 NR * AFDC: Absent Fathers, Delinquent Children.


--- InterEcho 1.14
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 Msg  : 244 of 300
 From : David Hilling                       1:262/32        .îí 20 Hîÿ 95 07:32
 To   : Todd Sullivan
 Subj : Casting Pern
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 AH> Hey, is this just idle speculation or has somebody in Hollywood started
 AH> to actually think about this?

 TS> I have no idea; I'd like to see it happen, but McCaffery's lawyers are
 TS> a nasty bunch; ask why Brigadoon isn't called PernNet any more.

I think a lot of us would like to see it happen, but I don't know if
it's going to be a bigger disappointment if they make the movie or if
they don't. Look at how many Grade A novels get turned into Grade B
(or worse) movies.  Dune, Nightfall, and The Puppet Masters come
immediately to mind. On the other hand, maybe that gang of nasty
lawyers could sit on them until they do it right. Of course, in two
of the above-cited examples, the authors were dead and couldn't complain.

On the other hand, while we're engaging in idle speculation on casting,
how about Uma Thurman as Marjorie (Friday) Baldwin? Sean Connery as
Lazarus Long? James Gammon as Mike Callahan?
Other movies I would like to see made:
Oath of Fealty (Niven/Pournelle)
I, Robot (Asimov, and Ellison has already done a pretty fair screenplay)
Stardance (Robison & Robinson)
Lucifer's Hammer (again Niven and Pournelle)
       ***and of course***
Stranger in a Strange Land
I've been hearing rumors for a couple of years that this one is in
production or will soon be in production.  Most of these rumors also
say that Tom Hanks will play Mike. I really think that is a little
bit of a stretch at his age, but since I've been praying for this
movie to happen for about 34 years now (since before I would have been
able to get in to see it) I'll take what we can get.

... "Kissing girls is a goodness.  It beats hell out of card games."
---
 À Blue Wave/DOS v2.21 [NR] À
--- Renegade v10-05 Exp
 * Origin: The Gallifrey BBS * 614-867-2812,,77 * Zoom 28.8k (1:262/32)

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 Msg  : 245 of 300
 From : David Hilling                       1:262/32        .îí 20 Hîÿ 95 07:32
 To   : Ken Mayes
 Subj : Re: Foundation series?
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
::To: All  From: Ken Mayes  Subj: Re: Foundation series?  ::
----------------------@N

 KM> You might also want to check out the Robot series which
 KM> actually sort of leads into the Foundation series. R Daneel Olivaw
 KM> turns up in the later Foundation novels if I remember right.

Yes, but he doesn't turn up until the whole series has turned to crap.

... "Look kid, when I tell you you're going to fly, believe it." - Aahz
---
 À Blue Wave/DOS v2.21 [NR] À
--- Renegade v10-05 Exp
 * Origin: The Gallifrey BBS * 614-867-2812,,77 * Zoom 28.8k (1:262/32)

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 Msg  : 246 of 300
 From : Owen E. Oulton                      1:243/45        .òp 21 Hîÿ 95 23:07
 To   : The Raven
 Subj : Q HEADING FOR VOYAGER
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 TR>      Close, but no cigar.  Stan Putterman (and, for that matter, George
 TR> Francisco) is played by Eric Pierpoint.  Gerritt Graham
 TR> plays Matthew Sikes (not to mention Achilles from "Robot Jox").

To me, Detectives Francisco and "Excrement-Cranium" will always be Mandy
Pantinkin and James Caan.  Call me old-fashioned...

CFN, O

--- Maximus 2.01wb
 * Origin: Pandora's Box, Ottawa, Ont. 613-829-1209 (1:243/45)

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 Msg  : 247 of 300
 From : Owen E. Oulton                      1:243/45        .òp 21 Hîÿ 95 23:11
 To   : David Reffitt
 Subj : Re: Vir Cotto
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 DR> Very interesting point. So, they would not consider
 DR> givinng the job to Vir?

What, Londo's job?  I think not.  It's been established that Vir is a nobody
member of a minor family who only got the job as Londo's assistant because it
was a backwater, unimportant position, and who nearly lost that position because
it became more important.  Hardly the sort of person who would succeed to that
now-important position.

CFN, O

--- Maximus 2.01wb
 * Origin: Pandora's Box, Ottawa, Ont. 613-829-1209 (1:243/45)

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 Msg  : 248 of 300
 From : Brandon Wolgast                     1:363/216       .ÿò 24 Hîÿ 95 00:25
 To   : Brent Turcotte
 Subj : Foundation series?
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: HyperMail! v1.22 94-0049

BT> Brandon_W> Long ago (way back in my sophomore year of high school) I read
BT> Brandon_W> about half way through "Foundation" and never finished it. Just
BT> Brandon_W> recently I was at a book store and saw like five Foundation
BT> Brandon_W> novels.  I'm a big sci-fi fan but just never read these, so of
BT> Brandon_W> course I want to. My question is, what order do they go in?  I
BT> Brandon_W> thought "Foundation" was the first one but
BT> Brandon_W> there is also a "Prelude to Foundation" among others, and unlike
BT> Brandon_W> for instance the Dune books it doesn't tell anywhere that I can
BT> Brandon_W> see on the books what order to read them in. So if someone could
BT> Brandon_W> tell me what order the Foundation books go in I would really
BT> Brandon_W> appreciate it. Thanks a lot.

BT>Prelude to Fondation, 1988
BT>Forward the Foundation, 1991 or 1992
BT>Foundation, 1951
BT>Foundation and Empire, 1952
BT>Second Foundation, 1953
BT>Foundation's Edge, 1982
BT>Foundation and Earth, 1983

BT>The foundation series is after Asimov's robot novels and his empire
BT>novels.  These fifteen books are all loosely connected into one grand
BT>series.

BT>Complete Robot
BT>The Cave of Steel
BT>The Naked Sun
BT>The Robots of Dawn
BT>Robots and Empire
BT>The Currents of Space
BT>The Star, Like Dust --
BT>Pebble in the Sky
BT>and then Prelude to Foundation

Woah.... all those for one "big thing?"  And I thought the six Dune
books were a lot. <g>  Are they all worth reading? Also, as you and
someone else who replied to me noted (I'm sorry I forgot the name.) THe
first two Foundation books were written after Foundation, would it be
better to read Foundation and the rest in written order or in the
chronological order?  ANd Complete Robot is his *FIRST* book in this
"big huge" series of things? Does evrything actually tie together or is
it so little only the hard core fan would notice it?  I mean thats 17
books... does it all come together in the end? I take it Foundation and
Earth then is the last book in the big scheme of things right?

Thanks for answering any or all of these, it's just as I noted I
remember reading about half of Foundation back in 10th grade and now I
wanted to read them all, and never thought there were so many Foundation
books, let alone all these Robots and Empire books.  Would you recommend
reading them in the order you listed then?

Thanks a lot.

---
 * OLX 2.1 TD * Hello, I am part number ||#||||#||#||#||

--- HyperMail 1.20
 * Origin: Data Systems Internat'l (407)292-8009 Call Today! (1:363/216)

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 Msg  : 249 of 300
 From : Karmin St.jean                      1:321/309       .pä 22 Hîÿ 95 11:20
 To   : The Raven
 Subj : Q HEADING FOR VOYAGER
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
I hate to tell you, but Gerritt Graham did play Stan Putterman! And Chad Allen
played his son. I forgot who played the grandfather who wanted to use the
satellite to spy on the Russians and who played Medusa (a parody of Elvira), but
after seeing the thing 100 times (IN A ROW!) I think I can safely say it was
Gerritt Graham.

--- FLAME v1.1
 * Origin: Final Approach BBS - Spfld, MA (413)783-5853 (1:321/309)

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 Msg  : 250 of 300
 From : Beverley Cote                       1:134/32.9      .åò 23 Hîÿ 95 07:42
 To   : Ruby Tuesday
 Subj : canadian stuff
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Hi Ruby! Love the handle!

21 Nov 95:  Ruby Tuesday------>All

 RT> has anybody come across any science fictin with "Canadian
 RT> content" that's worthwhile?

Books? Movies? Television? Do you define 'Canadian content' as
loosely as the CRTC?  :)

 RT> thanks,
 RT> Ruby Tuesday
 RT> ... OFFLINE 1.41 * Happy aardvark!

Stolen. I like you already! :)

Beverley

... Another fine product of the Sirius Cybernetics Corporation!

--- PPoint 1.98
 * Origin: ... Australia in '99                  :) (1:134/32.9)

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 Msg  : 251 of 300
 From : Beverley Cote                       1:134/32.9      .åò 23 Hîÿ 95 07:51
 To   : Marc Zingarelli
 Subj : Q HEADING FOR VOYAGER
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Hi there!

22 Nov 95:  Marc Zingarelli------>The Raven

 MZ> The Raven was overheard talking to Karmin St.Jean,
 MZ> about Q HEADING FOR VOYAGER, in "Joe's Place" and said:

TR> KS> It is not our Q (nor Q2 (Corbin Bernsen)) who is being tried. It is
TR> KS> another Q, (played by Gerritt Graham (can we say "Stan Putterman", boys
TR> KS> and girls?))

TR>     Close, but no cigar.  Stan Putterman (and, for that matter, George
 MZ> TR>Francisco) is played by Eric Pierpoint.  Gerritt Graham plays
 MZ> Matthew Sikes TR>(not to mention Achilles from "Robot Jox").

 MZ> Gary Graham who played Sikes played in another episode called Cold
 MZ> Fire dealing with Kess's psychokinetic powers and the caretakers
 MZ> companion.

Gerrit Graham also played the Tosk in an early DS9, and was Meat
in 'Phantom of the Paradise': music by Paul Williams (who also
starred), directed by Brian de Palma (I believe it was his first
film). One of my faves... :)

Beverley

... Computer: an accountant with a personality.

--- PPoint 1.98
 * Origin: ... Australia in '99                  :) (1:134/32.9)

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 Msg  : 252 of 300
 From : Beverley Cote                       1:134/32.9      .pä 22 Hîÿ 95 16:42
 To   : Michael Harper
 Subj : Oook!
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Hi Michael!

Forgive the tardy reply...

31 Oct 95:  Michael Harper------>Beverley Cote

 > Have you ever read a book called 'Buddy Holly Is Alive And
 > Well And Living On Ganymede"? I can't remember the author right now...

 MH> Brad Denton. I've been looking for it for bloody ever, and can't
 MH> find it. You're about the fiftieth person to recommend it, dear one.
 MH> :/

Thanks for the name! I read it, but it was borrowed from a
friend... now I can start my _own_ search for it! You'll really
like it! (when you find it! :) ).

 MH> If you've never read any Tom Holt, try him on. I started with
 MH> Expecting Someone Taller, and along the way I found Who's Afraid Of
 MH> Beowulf? and Flying Dutch. The dude is good...

I'll give him a try! Thanks a lot, Michael, it's been nice
meeting you here!

peace,
Beverley

... Every time I know the answer somebody changes the question

--- PPoint 1.98
 * Origin: ... Australia in '99                  :) (1:134/32.9)

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 Msg  : 253 of 300
 From : The Raven                           1:363/309       .åò 23 Hîÿ 95 00:40
 To   : Brian Henderson
 Subj : B5 Vs. Trek, Again.
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 BH> Of course, and I'm sure that we've all see the moderated groups where
 BH> the moderator decides that it's his own personal newsgroup and dumps
 BH> anything that disagrees with his own ideas.

     Are you familiar with Steve Winter?

     Jack Butler



... 3 out of 4 Americans make up 75% of the population.
--- Blue Wave/RA v2.20 [NR]
 * Origin: Forethought BBS -=- Orlando, FL -=- 407-679-6561 (1:363/309)

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 Msg  : 254 of 300
 From : Frank Swarbrick                     1:104/825       .òp 21 Hîÿ 95 23:32
 To   : Mark Holtz
 Subj : The Invaders
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12  92-0022
On 11-19-95  14:32 Ambassador Mark Holtz of the Minbari Federation said:

 MH> When Frank Swarbrick typed to All, strange things happened, like....
 FS> I'm sitting here watching The Invaders (the new mini-series) and was
 FS> wondering if anyone else finds it as boring as I do.  Unbelievable!

 MH> "The Invaders (A Q-M Production)" shows up on the SciFi Channel.
 MH> However, the
 MH> mini series shares elements from the original 60's series in name and
 MH> minor  elements only. Gee wiz, if you intend to remake an old series,
 MH> at least come  fairly close to the original concept as possible....

Can I take it you didn't care for the miniseries either?

As for seeing it on the SciFi Channel, unfortunately I don't get it in
my area.  Wish, wish, wish...

        Frank

... "So lock on to my signal, and BEAM ON DOWN!"
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12
 * Origin: The Bailey Information Exchange BBS, 28.8k v.fc  (1:104/825.0)

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 Msg  : 255 of 300
 From : The Raven                           1:363/309       .pä 22 Hîÿ 95 07:33
 To   : Jeff Hancock
 Subj : B5 VS. TREK, AGAIN.
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 JH> That's TV Guide, which I don't read. I was talking about Entertainment
 JH> Weekly.

     You were speaking about the media paying attention.  TV Guide is part
of the media.


 JH> But while we're on the subject, I also recently heard that TV Guide
 JH> wasn't giving it any sort of description, just listing the name and
 JH> time. This was according to someone in the B5 echo, who was gleefully
 JH> posting that FINALLY they were giving it a description (it was about
 JH> an alien probe, "A Day in the Strife"). I doubt you'll be able to
 JH> verify that now if they've just changed their policy, unless you have
 JH> some old TV Guides, but it still shows a lack of respect. Or space.

     Actually, I have several old TV guides.  (Why?  None of your business
<G>).  And I've been reading descriptions of B5 episodes since at least the
middle of season one.

     Jack Butler




... "Who are you going to believe, me or those crooked x-rays?"
--- Blue Wave/RA v2.20 [NR]
 * Origin: Forethought BBS -=- Orlando, FL -=- 407-679-6561 (1:363/309)

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 Msg  : 256 of 300
 From : Karen Rodgers                       1:202/1313      .pä 22 Hîÿ 95 10:03
 To   : Robert Lidgren
 Subj : X-FILES
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 -=> Quoting Robert Lidgren to Karen Rodgers <=-

 RL> Hi Karen!

 RL> I liked your response to the quote re: X-Files stories getting boring.

 It's very hard, and I've found X-Files quality to be quite variable.  I'm
 surprised that another show, Babylon 5 just keeps getting better and
 better.

 RL> Perhaps the very toughest thing for any top-notcxh series to do is
 RL> keep their STORIES at a high level of excellence week after week.  I
 RL> think, on the whole, though, X-Files has many more "hits" than misses.

 Perhaps, but the "ick" factor has been pretty high lately.

 RL> By the way, I've included X-Files "links" on my new Web Page.

 Don't have an easy way to the web.

 Karen

... ATTENTION.... Elvis has left the echo.
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

--- GrayQwkMail 2.1
 * Origin: Written Worlds BBS - 619.697.4073 (1:202/1313)

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 Msg  : 257 of 300
 From : Myra I Fox                          1:123/10        .pä 22 Hîÿ 95 17:06
 To   : David Hilling
 Subj : Terry Pratchett
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

-=>Quoting David Hilling to Myra I Fox<=-

 DH> Have you read The Bromeliad by Terry Pratchett?  That one was a lot of
 DH> fun.

No, but I just noticed that the SFBC has it this month.  Maybe I need
to order myself an Xmas present <smile>.


... "The people united can never be ignited!" - Sergeant Colon (G!G!)
--- RA/FD/FMail
 * Origin: The Electric Fox - Memphis,TN, U.S.A.  1-901-327-1008 (1:123/10)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 258 of 300
 From : John Arnold                         3:632/103       .òp 21 Hîÿ 95 12:11
 To   : Owen E. Oulton
 Subj : RE: 24 Hour SF
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 >  JA>        Well its nearly that time again.
 >  JA> The Next 24 hour sci-fi marathon at the Valhalla is on the 9TH of
 > Dec.
 > <snip, snip>
 >  JA> --- Maximus/2 3.00
 >  JA>  * Origin: Decadence BBS (3:632/103)
 >
 > Hmmm...  Zone 3 --- Australia...  Nope can't make it.
 >
 > John, two words: International Echo.

Yes but the way the local echoes and fido eat mail I post this in a lot of
the SF echoes....  Some mad fans come from interstate to this...
Normally at least 1 from Sydney which is 450 miles / 720 KM as the
crow flies...
The only other echo that reaches interstate is Z3_SF which I also
posted this in...  I didn't think anyone would realy mind as this
only comes up 3 or 4 times a year and could nearly be classed as
a limited kind of con...  We don't complain about seeing all the cons over
there we can't get too...



RIP Jack Finney.
Died this week aged 84.
Another good author gone.


BFN,
    John.


 | AmiQWK 2.7 - S/N 0197 |
... "Good Enough" is the death knell of progress.

--- Maximus/2 3.00
 * Origin: Decadence BBS (3:632/103)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 259 of 300
 From : Nancy Crockett                      1:170/600       .ÿò 24 Hîÿ 95 11:57
 To   : Marc Zingarelli
 Subj : Highlander
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
     It is great seeing other people writing about Highlander, I am a devoted
fan. Please read my message to ALL about Highlander. Write to me as well!

... "I played ping-pong so much, I even played it in my sleep." Forrest Gump
--- FMail/386 1.02
 * Origin: Tulsa Chat BBS-Tulsa, Ok-(918) 234-1352 (1:170/600)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 260 of 300
 From : Nancy Crockett                      1:170/600       .ÿò 24 Hîÿ 95 11:59
 To   : Jack Butler
 Subj : Highlander
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
     I am so happy to see people writing about Highlander. I noticed someone
asking you about the season being renewed. Where do you get your info? I am a
devoted fan of Highlander, and I am a member of the official Highlander club out
of Denver. Please read my message to ALL about Highlander. Write to me anytime!

... "He got me invested in some kind of fruit company?" Forrest Gump
--- FMail/386 1.02
 * Origin: Tulsa Chat BBS-Tulsa, Ok-(918) 234-1352 (1:170/600)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 261 of 300
 From : Nancy Crockett                      1:170/600       .ÿò 24 Hîÿ 95 12:00
 To   : Todd Sullivan
 Subj : Highlander
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
     It is great to see people writing about Highlander, as I am a devoted fan
and intend to add some myself. For now, please read my message to ALL about
Highlander. Write to me anytime!

... User Error: Replace user and hit any key to continue...
--- FMail/386 1.02
 * Origin: Tulsa Chat BBS-Tulsa, Ok-(918) 234-1352 (1:170/600)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 262 of 300
 From : Nancy Crockett                      1:170/600       .ÿò 24 Hîÿ 95 12:02
 To   : Shawn Merrow
 Subj : Highlander
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
     I am happy to see people writing about Highlander. I was giving up hope on
finding many people to talk about Highlander with. Please read my message to ALL
on Highlander for some info. Write to me, I love to talk about it!

... This tagline is password protected. To view type Ctrl-Alt-Del.
--- FMail/386 1.02
 * Origin: Tulsa Chat BBS-Tulsa, Ok-(918) 234-1352 (1:170/600)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 263 of 300
 From : James Walton                        1:129/260       .òp 21 Hîÿ 95 05:43
 To   : All
 Subj : Writing Contest
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
PARSEC is proud to announce its Second Annual Science
Fiction writing contest, in conjunction with ConFluence '96.

PARSEC, the Pittsburgh area science fiction club, is offering
a $100 cash prize to the best fantasy or SF short story.
This year's theme is "Forged in Iron;" therefore each
short story submitted must feature "Iron" in some way, shape
or form.

The best story will be published in the ConFluence '96
program book.

There is no entry fee.

Confluence is the  annual Pittsburgh area science fiction
and fantasy convention.  ConFluence '96 will be held from July
26-28, 1996 at the Sheraton Hotel in Mars, Pa.  Our guest of honor
is Nebula award winner Michael Swanwick.  Dozens of other professional
writers, editors and artists will also attend.  The convention
attracts more than 300 attendees from all over the Midwest.

The stories will be judged by members of the club.  At the
club's discretion, the second place winner may also receive
a cash prize and be published in the program book. All
publication rights revert to the author after Confluence.

This contest is open to anyone (pro or amateur) who submits
a story of the correct length, and meets the topic
restrictions.  The manuscript must be double spaced, the
title must appear on the top of each  page and each page
must be numbered.  The author's name should not appear
anywhere in the manuscript.

A title page must accompany the manuscript, which includes
the author's name, address, and the title of the story.
Stories may be submitted on a PC or MAC disk in a plain text
format.  Remember, the story cannot be longer than
3500 words.  If you want your manuscript or disk returned,
include a SASE with your entry.  All submissions must be
received by June 15, 1996.

Any manuscripts which do not adhere to the above guidelines
will be returned unread.

Send manuscripts or disks to:

      PARSEC Short Story Contest
      PO Box 3681
      Pittsburgh, PA 15230-3681

Electronic submissions may be sent to
jjwalton@telerama.lm.com
(electronic submissions need not be double-spaced).





--- Via Silver Xpress V4.00 SW12427
 * Origin: ConFluence '96:  Return to Mars! (1:129/260)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 264 of 300
 From : James Walton                        1:129/260       .òp 21 Hîÿ 95 05:46
 To   : All
 Subj : Writing Workshop
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
A writers' workshop will be held on Saturday July 27th, 1996, at the
Sheraton Inn, Mars, Pennsylvania, close to Pittsburgh. The workshop is
part of Confluence 96, an annual speculative fiction convention with
dozens of guest authors.

The workshop will be limited to ten participants, each of whom should
submit a short story or a chapter of a novel by June 1st.  Stories
must be science fiction, fantasy, or horror, and must be typed,
double-spaced, with one inch margins; maximum length: 6000 words.
Stories will be copied and sent to participants four weeks before the
convention to allow time for critiquing.  The workshop will be run by
Mary Soon Lee, an active SFWA member whose credits include stories in
The Magazine of Fantasy & Science Fiction and Interzone.

In the morning, we will critique the participants' manuscripts
Clarion-style: going round in a circle, each giving our comments while
the others are silent, before moving to a general discussion of the
story.  We will also cover basics such as manuscript format and
finding out about markets.  In the afternoon, guest authors will talk
to the workshop.  Speakers will include Catherine Asaro, physicist,
editor, and author of the science fiction novel Primary Inversion.

COST: $25 up to April 1st, 1996, $35 thereafter.  This includes a
Saturday-only Confluence membership; please add $5 for an all-weekend
Confluence membership.  Make checks payable to PARSEC (subtract $5 if
you are a PARSEC member)

DEADLINE: June 1st, 1996 (including submitting manuscript)
----------------------------------------------------------
Address for applications or          Mary Soon Lee
additional information:-             Confluence Workshop
                                     6413 Howe Street
(Please include a stamped, self-     Pittsburgh PA 15206
addressed envelope)                  Email: mslee@cs.cmu.edu






--- Via Silver Xpress V4.00 SW12427
 * Origin: ConFluence '96:  Return to Mars! (1:129/260)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 265 of 300
 From : Brandon Wolgast                     1:363/216       .åò 23 Hîÿ 95 14:12
 To   : Ritchie Funk
 Subj : Nowhere Man
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: HyperMail! v1.22 94-0049

RF>Did anyone see the most recent episode where he meets his father? Was
RF>his father part of the conspiracy or is Tom just getting a little too
RF>paranoid?

I don't think his father was part of it, not at all, that is to me why
they ended with showing the picture at the end. I may be wrong but I
don't think he was "in on it."

---
 * OLX 2.1 TD * Hello, I am part number ||#||||#||#||#||

--- HyperMail 1.20
 * Origin: Data Systems Internat'l (407)292-8009 Call Today! (1:363/216)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 266 of 300
 From : Frank Glover                        1:2613/477      .îí 20 Hîÿ 95 21:27
 To   : Ken Mayes
 Subj : Re: B5 -- Coincidence?
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

KM>          Again second season: Episode 5. After blasting their way
KM>  through the dockyard gates and escaping into space with the Argo, the
KM>  EDF dispatches the flagship of the fleet, The Andromeda to retrieve
KM>  the Argo. (Again shades of Star Trek III.)

   There's a similar scene in `Enemy Mine.' As I watched it, I remember
thinking;"Hmmm. Fleet officer steals ship, breaks out of space station to go
back to a world to rescue his non-human friend. A tad familiar."

   But more basically, there are some basic story plots that unavoidably get
re-told. Espically the lone individual (often a young man) who struggles against
great odds to defeat a supremely powerful enemy. StarWars and Willow immediately
come to mind, but there are examples going back millenia.....

   And that's okay, as long as the newest re-telling is still entertaining.

   Frank


--- QuickBBS 2.80 GoldBase (Zeta-1)
 * Origin: The Matrix Data Bank BBS, Rochester, Ny (1:2613/477)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 267 of 300
 From : Frank Glover                        1:2613/477      .îí 20 Hîÿ 95 21:42
 To   : Chris Ogniben
 Subj : Re: Questions, But Are T
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

CO>  through out space.  I don't see a acutal star ship using warp
CO>  capabilities in real space.  There is no way that is going to happen.
CO>  And, probably would take 3000 to 4000 years to happen.  If it were
CO>  possible, which i say it's not.  And, i still don't see any future
CO>  designs of space ships to be like star ships in star trek.  But, i
CO>  feel
CO>  more interested in what i see with Babylon 5.. Spinning space
CO>  statios,
CO>  and fuel depo's in space, and ships that are capable of using solar
CO>  energy to power batteris and life support systems.  And, to be able
CO>  to
CO>  travel long distances.  But, i don't see anything that i see in star
CO>  trek become reality.. Because, star trek is stupid.  I mean, i could

   So...warp drives don't impress you, but jump gates and hyperspace are okay?

   Almost any story involving large interstellar distances must invoke *some*
form of faster than light travel. Right now, we have only the barest hints on
the fringes of physics that such a thing might be possible. (And many will still
flatly say it's not.) But if you don't want travel and military engagements to
take years or decades, you make the most reasonable sounding form of FTL you
can, and go from there.

   Remember, while many things in all of SF end up actually coming to pass,
neither Star Trek, Babylon 5 or anything else pretend to *predict* the future.
They just try to tell good stories in a future setting.....

   Frank


--- QuickBBS 2.80 GoldBase (Zeta-1)
 * Origin: The Matrix Data Bank BBS, Rochester, Ny (1:2613/477)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 268 of 300
 From : Frank Glover                        1:2613/477      .îí 20 Hîÿ 95 21:51
 To   : The Raven
 Subj : Re: Questions, But Are T
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

TR>   BW> 2.  Nuclear power is extremely dangerous, and it kinda leaves
TR>   BW> radiation  behind.
TR>
TR>       So does sunlight.  Your point was?
TR>
TR>       Just to let you know, the maximum exposure reached at Three Mile
TR>  Island
TR>  during the entirety of the "crisis" at that reactor was less than
TR>  half that
TR>  received by just sitting anywhere in the US Capitol Building for two
TR>  minutes.
TR>  There are ways of handling radioactives that make them a hell of a
TR>  lot less
TR>  dangerous than, say, internal combustion.
TR>
TR>       Jack Butler

   Indeed. Solar enthusiasts (and I do consider myself one) should remember that
the Sun (and any other star) is a natural *unshielded* fusion reactor. That's
why space crews in SF and reality are always wary of solar flare storms, and why
we down here worry about ozone depletion. That's where the hard ultraviolet
comes from, after all....

   And then there are those who sit out in the Sun (like mad dogs and
Englishmen) and *invite* skin damage.

   Nothing's perfectly safe, and the danger's not always what we think it is.

   Frank


--- QuickBBS 2.80 GoldBase (Zeta-1)
 * Origin: The Matrix Data Bank BBS, Rochester, Ny (1:2613/477)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 269 of 300
 From : David Little                        1:106/7315      .pä 22 Hîÿ 95 22:02
 To   : Ed Brannin
 Subj : red dwarf
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
-=<( Ed Brannin used the Jedi Mind Trick on me! )>=-

 EB> anyone here like red dwarf?
 DL> Yo!! Whatcha wanna converse about?!?
 EB> nnothing much.  u see last episode on pbs channel 21?  i forgot 2
 EB> tape it.

        Channel 21 is ESPN...I'm in a different city and state than you are!
PBS here is channel 8.

DL>  ! Origin: The Wizard's Realm ** (713) 946-7315 ** (1:106/7315)

        See...I'm in Houston in the Republic of Texas!!

                                        -=The DoLittle 8-)=-

... Rameses Niblick III, Ker-plunk, Ker-plunk, Whoops Where's My Thribble?
--- FreeMail & Blue Wave/TAG v2.21
 * Origin: The Wizard's Realm ** (713) 946-7315 ** (1:106/7315)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 270 of 300
 From : Mark David                          1:243/86        .åò 23 Hîÿ 95 17:12
 To   : Bianca Wesslak
 Subj : Re: Questions, But Are T
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

BW> 1.  we will not be able to go very far on large tanks of fuel

That's very sweeping. Are you familiar enough with the feild to
make that statement?

BW> 2.  Nuclear power is extremely dangerous, and it kinda leaves radiation
BW> behind.

Nuclear power is the safest form of energy production yet devised. The
radiation 'it leaves behind' is mostly harmless except for the one percent or
so of truly dangerous waste substances. It is easily and cheaply disposed of,
though, so there can be no rational argument against it.

 * Origin: °±²Û Electron Castle (613) 824-5074 Û²±° (1:243/86)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 271 of 300
 From : Mark David                          1:243/86        .åò 23 Hîÿ 95 17:19
 To   : Chris Ogniben
 Subj : Re: Questions, But Are T
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

CO>    It would suck to have a future with matter antimatter reactors.

I don't think that that would be possible, though I say that with trepidation
(Ruthorford said power from the atom was impossible; when in comes to the
future, you'd best hedge your bets).

But as a propulsion system, it would the best we could come up with with what
we are capable of. The only problem which would arise would be the sheer
amount of power required to produce antimatter.

 * Origin: °±²Û Electron Castle (613) 824-5074 Û²±° (1:243/86)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 272 of 300
 From : Mark David                          1:243/86        .åò 23 Hîÿ 95 17:31
 To   : The Raven
 Subj : Re: Questions, But Are T
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

TR>      Just to let you know, the maximum exposure reached at Three Mile Islan
TR> during the entirety of the "crisis" at that reactor was less than half that
TR> received by just sitting anywhere in the US Capitol Building for two minute
TR> There are ways of handling radioactives that make them a hell of a lot less
TR> dangerous than, say, internal combustion.

I wonder what she would make of the fact that roughly 10,000 die every year
worldwide as a result of coal-fired plants, and I wonder how she would
react when she discovers EPA regulations on domestic radiation are 40x higher
than those placed on nuclear power plants.

I hope she doesn't turn to acupuncture when she find out that whenever someone
is operated on, they are injected with gamma-emitting radioactive substances
and that the needle used to do it must by law be treated like 'low-level
radioactive waste'. I wonder how she will feel about being 'low-level
radioactive waste'?

And her watch face painted with tritium, the radiation pouring out of the
stones in her house, the radioactive gases accumulating in her bedroom...

 * Origin: °±²Û Electron Castle (613) 824-5074 Û²±° (1:243/86)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 273 of 300
 From : Mark David                          1:243/86        .åò 23 Hîÿ 95 17:51
 To   : Bianca Wesslak
 Subj : Re: Questions, But Are T
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

BW>  Oh ever hear of radiation poisoning.

Oh, I've heard of it, many times, but all of them in Greenpeace propaganda.

NO ONE, as in ZERO, as in NADA people have died from radioactive waste.

BW>  case in point, the russians that
BW>  were in the epicenter and the surrounding are of chenobyl.  Not to mention
BW>  now that because of nuclear bombs and chenobyl every baby born now has som
BW>  plutonium in their lungs.

Oh yeah? Did the Greenpeace pamphlet you got this from mention in what
concentration this plutonium is found in the lungs of these poor babes?

BW>  We also have  radioactive stuff in our
BW>  stratosphere that takes way to long to become safe.

Not only in our stratosphere, but in the very air we breath; every breath you
take sucks in radon and other radiactive gasses. If your backyard is the
average size of 1/10 of an acre, you would uncover over 7000 kg of radiactive
materials if you dug it up to a depth of 1 meter. Our atmosphere soaks in
enough radioactive cosmic rays in a few seconds that would kill you several
times over unprotected.

83% of it is natural. Of the man-made sources, nuclear power plants acount for
about 0.01%

But your Greenpeace pamphlet assuredly let you in on all this.

BW>  Some of the nuclear
BW>  energy that we are messing around with and that we would have to use has w
BW>  to long half life spans.  some of the half life that it would take would b
BW>  many thousands of years in the future.  Probably wouldn't be stable until

So? The evil substances you are talking about, the high-level gamma-emitting
wastes account for 99% of the radioactivity, but only 1% of the mass. The
problems with disposing it are legion--but none of them are technical or
financial; they are emotional and political.

 * Origin: °±²Û Electron Castle (613) 824-5074 Û²±° (1:243/86)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 274 of 300
 From : Steven Wesen                        1:271/236       .ÿò 24 Hîÿ 95 08:25
 To   : Nancy Crockett
 Subj : Re: red dwarf
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE 1.11+
Yes they are working on Series 7 and 8 with 2 Christmas Specials.

Steve

--- GEcho 1.11+
 * Origin: THE TIME MACHINE (804)599-6401 TRAVEL THE PORTALS! (1:271/236)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 275 of 300
 From : Frank Swarbrick                     1:104/825       .åò 23 Hîÿ 95 11:41
 To   : Ritchie Funk
 Subj : Nowhere Man
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12  92-0022
On 11-21-95  12:57 Ambassador Ritchie Funk of the Minbari Federation said:

 -=> Quoting Frank Swarbrick to Ritchie Funk <=-

 FS> I'm a fan.  Haven't missed an episode yet, and I'm also recording
 FS> them.  My favorite episode is "Something About Her," the one where
 FS> Veil was put in a virtual reality type thing and lived another life.

 RF> Thank you very much for the episode titles. I'm taping them too that's
 RF> why I wanted the titles. My favorite episode so far is where he tries
 RF> to find Dave Powers and he finds out they're doing a TV show about his
 RF> life.

Yeah, that was a pretty good one too.  That one was called "The Spider
Webb."  This past week's one was called "An Enemy Within."  The one
where he gets shot and that young woman takes care of him.  I don't
know that I cared that much for that one.

Next weeks looks good, but the ads for it really overdo it.  I hate
UPN ads!

        Frank

... "How may I be honest with you today?" --Tuvok
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12
 * Origin: The Bailey Information Exchange BBS, 28.8k v.fc  (1:104/825.0)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 276 of 300
 From : Starwolf                            1:163/214       .ÿò 24 Hîÿ 95 08:48
 To   : Don Bach
 Subj : Time Tunnel
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Sure, I'm aware of the blinky-winkies (tm) on the real computers of the sixties
and early seventies.  I used to hang around the computer section of a local
university when I was still in high school and they had them.  Trouble is, those
Allen shows were supposed to take place in the future, but tech had not improved
visibly from that of the days when it was shot.

I still remember the clunky computer with the large panel with the squared
blinky-winkies on the Seaview, for example.


--- Maximus 2.01wb
 * Origin: Land of Ill Repute (1:163/214)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 277 of 300
 From : The Raven                           1:363/309       .óá 25 Hîÿ 95 00:56
 To   : Nancy Crockett
 Subj : Highlander:  New Season
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 NC> Hey! I was just reading messages and noticed you and Marc talking
 NC> about Highlander, the series, my favorite show. I have been trying to
 NC> find people to talk about it with and haven't had much success.

     I am one of the self-appointed SME (Subject Matter Experts) on FidoNet
(the others are Cindy Shettle and Mark Jones).


 NC> Are you interested enough in Highlander to join a few of us in watching
 NC> the series from the beginning? I have pre-recorded euro versions and a
 NC> surround sound system.

     Ah.  So do I.  But thanks for the offer anyway.


 NC> If you are, meet us at Pizzettis at 10910 E. 31st on Dec. 1st at 6:30.
 NC> My husband and I will be wearing Highlander T-shirts. We will probably
 NC> watch the first 3 or 4 episodes that night and get together again
 NC> probably about once a month.

     Just in case you didn't know, this echo is International in scope.  I
see you are posting from Tulsa, Oklahoma.  Well, here's the problem with me
getting together with you:  I'm in Orlando, Florida.
     Anyway, thanks for the offer.  And if you have any questions at all, I'm
the guy to ask...

     Jack Butler



... "Romance is about the little things." -+ Gregory J. Godeck
--- Blue Wave/RA v2.20 [NR]
 * Origin: Forethought BBS -=- Orlando, FL -=- 407-679-6561 (1:363/309)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 278 of 300
 From : The Raven                           1:363/309       .óá 25 Hîÿ 95 00:56
 To   : Chris Ogniben
 Subj : Krypton
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 CO> If your a comic reader, than a collector.. You are missing out on a
 CO> great personal buisness or hobby.  I mean, do you realize how much
 CO> money you can make by collecting comics, and you still can read them..
 CO> But, you make a big profit later in life with them.

     To quote myself:  "Art is wasted on those who have no souls."

     It is highly unlikely that you will make any money at all from comic
books, as very few of them have any lasting value.  And I hope like hell you
aren't planning on making money off of those pieces of toilet paper which
have the word "Image" printed on them..

     Jack Butler



... "Talk sense to a fool and he calls you foolish." -+ Euripides
--- Blue Wave/RA v2.20 [NR]
 * Origin: Forethought BBS -=- Orlando, FL -=- 407-679-6561 (1:363/309)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 279 of 300
 From : Ed Brannin                          1:2613/135      .ÿò 24 Hîÿ 95 19:45
 To   : David Little
 Subj : Re: red dwarf
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 -=> Quoting David Little to Ed Brannin <=-

 DL> @PID: BWTAG 3.05 [Eval]
 DL> @MSGID: 1:106/7315.0 30af7551
 DL> -=<( Ed Brannin used the Jedi Mind Trick on me! )>=-

 EB> anyone here like red dwarf?

 DL> Yo!! Whatcha wanna converse about?!?

 DL> -=The DoLittle 8-)=-

 DL> ... "Are you sure your sanity chip is fully in?" -- Kryten
 DL> -!- FreeMail & Blue Wave/TAG v2.21

 DL>  ! Origin: The Wizard's Realm ** (713) 946-7315 ** (1:106/7315)

 nnothing much.  u see last episode on pbs channel 21?  i forgot 2 tape it.


... ******  "Welcome To Hell, Here's Your Copy of Windows '95." -Satin
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

--- QScan/PCB v1.18b / 01-0527
 * Origin: Wise BBS - Irondequoit, NY (1:2613/135)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 280 of 300
 From : Frank Glover                        1:2613/477      .ÿò 24 Hîÿ 95 21:00
 To   : All
 Subj : Tonight's X-Files
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

   Hmmm. "This alien autopsy is even hokier than the one on the Fox network."

   Have to admit, the writers have balls....

   Now all we need is Quark to show up.

   Frank


--- QuickBBS 2.80 GoldBase (Zeta-1)
 * Origin: The Matrix Data Bank BBS, Rochester, Ny (1:2613/477)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 281 of 300
 From : Paul Goverts                        1:2613/135      .ÿò 24 Hîÿ 95 14:51
 To   : Nancy Crockett
 Subj : red dwarf
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

-=> Quoting Nancy Crockett to Paul Goverts <=-

 NC> I also like Red Dwarf. My husband and I watched a friends tapes
 NC> and noone else we know besides him knows much about it. It has been a
 NC> couple of years though since I've seen them. I have seen it listed in
 NC> the sattelite guide, but haven't tuned in. There is always something
 NC> else going on, or it is too late. It was a great show though, and has a
 NC> lot of good things to quote! Is it still being filmed?

Well, no new shows have been filmed since 1993, due to a little incedent
with Craig Charles (Lister), but they're resuming the filming in March
1996...

Paul

... Two most common elements in the universe: Hydrogen & Stupidity.


--- QScan/PCB v1.18b / 01-0527
 * Origin: Wise BBS - Irondequoit, NY (1:2613/135)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 282 of 300
 From : Keith Stokes                        1:280/5         .åò 23 Hîÿ 95 21:07
 To   : David Hilling
 Subj : Favorites
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE/2 1.2
* In a message originally to All, David Hilling said:

DH>Are there any other Robert Heinlein fans out there? All this

Probably at least 20. Was something in particular that you wanted to
discuss about him? :-)


DH>I'd also be interested in hearing about anything new from
DH>Christopher
DH>Stasheff, as long as it's not another Warlock book.  Does he
DH>have
DH>some kind of bet going with Anne McCaffrey or what?

I just recently discovered Stasheff. So far, I've read two of his books, A
COMPANY OF STARS and a second one that's name escapes me. Liked them both.

Do you recomend the Warlock novels?  Do you know if he ever continued the
Starship Troupers series that he started with A COMPANY OF STARS in 1991. I have
found no sequals :-(

CBIP 195/295 in K. D. Wentworth's HOUSE OF MOONS.

   Keith

 * Origin: Infinity (1:280/5)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 283 of 300
 From : Keith Stokes                        1:280/5         .åò 23 Hîÿ 95 21:13
 To   : Ruby Tuesday
 Subj : canadian stuff
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE/2 1.2
* In a message originally to All, Ruby Tuesday said:

RT>
RT>has anybody come across any science fictin with "Canadian
RT>content" that's worthwhile?

Do you mean SF written by Canadians or do you mean SF set in Canada?

I've enjoyed quite a bit of the first, but haven't seen a great deal
of the later.

Do you include fantasy?

  Keith

ConQuesT 27  Kansas City, MO  Memorial Day Weekend, 1996  Guests include: Allan
Steele, Lee Killough, Lubov, Myrna Logan, Many others.

 * Origin: Infinity (1:280/5)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 284 of 300
 From : David Reffitt                       1:280/341       .ÿò 24 Hîÿ 95 08:17
 To   : Owen E. Oulton
 Subj : Re: Vir Cotto
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
I see. I just seen an episode that answered almost all my questions. I am not
sure if you have seen it yet, so I will not go into details and spoil it for
you.


---
 * Origin: Beyond the Pale 913-384-1577 (1:280/341)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 285 of 300
 From : Kay Shapero                         1:102/524       .åò 23 Hîÿ 95 10:16
 To   : Brion Lienhart
 Subj : Re: Vir Cotto
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Nov 21 08:31>, Brion Lienhart (1:213/700.2) wrote to Kay Shapero:

 -KS>I think his vision will come true, he will become Emperor, and be
 -KS>killed by G'Kar.  Probably kill G'Kar at the same time.  In the most
 -KS>flamboyant, grand opera style, to be sure.

 BL>What? He's going to be singing for 15 minutes after he gets
 BL>stabbed?

Why do you think G'Kar STRANGLES him?  :->

Me, I like the theory someone advanced that Vir is going to pull G'Kar off of
Londo... then strangle Londo HIMSELF. <snicker>

--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 286 of 300
 From : Nicolai Shapero                     1:102/524       .ÿò 24 Hîÿ 95 07:41
 To   : Brion Lienhart
 Subj : Weber
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Nov 21 08:35>, Brion Lienhart (1:213/700.2) wrote to Star Hawk:

 BL>Well, he is credited in the games Starfire and Starfire Imperium.

Are those board games or computer games?

-- Nicolai Shapero, the Mad Russian Sysop of StormGate Aerie

--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 287 of 300
 From : Robert Parson                       1:3822/1        .ÿò 24 Hîÿ 95 15:44
 To   : Chris Ogniben
 Subj : RE: VIR COTTO
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
CHRIS had this to say

 CO>    I doubt Vir is a ranger.  But, i have seen nothing to prove he is..

I kind of doubt he is, that was mostly wild speculation on my part.  But now
that he's being reassigned to Minbar, he could very well be recruited by The
One.


Robert (tm)

 * Silver Xpress V4.3 SW23473

--- QScan/PCB v1.18b / 01-0162
 * Origin: Jackalope Junction 501-785-5381 Ft Smith AR (1:3822/1)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 288 of 300
 From : Robert Parson                       1:3822/1        .ÿò 24 Hîÿ 95 15:44
 To   : Nancy Crockett
 Subj : RE: HIGHLANDER
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
NANCY had this to say

 NC> I have pre-recorded Euro-Versions

There's a different version going out to Europe?  What are some of the major
differences?


Robert (tm)

 * Silver Xpress V4.3 SW23473

--- QScan/PCB v1.18b / 01-0162
 * Origin: Jackalope Junction 501-785-5381 Ft Smith AR (1:3822/1)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 289 of 300
 From : Paul Goverts                        1:2613/135      .ÿò 24 Hîÿ 95 22:47
 To   : Ed Brannin
 Subj : red dwarf
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

-=> Quoting Ed Brannin to David Little <=-

 EB> nnothing much.  u see last episode on pbs channel 21?  i forgot 2
 EB> tape it.

Ed, just a reminder, this is an international conference, and people in
other cities don't see the episodes we see.  It's different in every
city.

Paul

... This tagline is brought to you by the letters B & W & the number 2.20!

--- QScan/PCB v1.18b / 01-0527
 * Origin: Wise BBS - Irondequoit, NY (1:2613/135)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 290 of 300
 From : Marc Zingarelli                     1:226/110       .óá 25 Hîÿ 95 08:32
 To   : Karmin St.jean
 Subj : Q HEADING FOR VOYAGER
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12  92-0004
Karmin St.Jean was overheard talking to The Raven,
about Q HEADING FOR VOYAGER, in "Joe's Place" and said:

KS>I hate to tell you, but Gerritt Graham did play Stan Putterman! And Chad
KS>Allen played his son. I forgot who played the grandfather who wanted to use
KS>the satellite to spy on the Russians and who played Medusa (a parody of
KS>Elvira), but after seeing the thing 100 times (IN A ROW!) I think I can
KS>safely say it was Gerritt Graham.

I think our beloved Highlander Guru is slipping and confusing Gerrit Graham
with Gary Graham.  Both are in voyager this season.

Later
     ---
 LT MARC ZINGARELLI
 Circleville Fire Department
 Local 1232
 Internet:  marc.zingarelli@tcr.com


 * OLX 1.52 * Stand Fast Craigellachie!

--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12
 * Origin: The Computer Room-Pickerington, Oh (614)861-8377  (1:226/110.0)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 291 of 300
 From : David Cougle                        1:390/2         .cê 26 Hîÿ 95 01:56
 To   : All
 Subj : Highlander:  anyone have dss?
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Does highlander still come on action?


--- Maximus 2.01wb
 * Origin: The Fire Scene BBS-HST-(504)641-4789 (1:390/2)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 292 of 300
 From : David Cougle                        1:390/2         .cê 26 Hîÿ 95 01:58
 To   : All
 Subj : awesome epic
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Get off you lazy butts, go to your library, and check out either Nine Princes in
Amber or The Chronicles of Amber v.1.  The autho, Roger Zelazny (who just died),
has such a way with words that you never know what will happen next and there is
never a dull moment. Anyone have any cool rpg's for Super Nintendo or pc?


--- Maximus 2.01wb
 * Origin: The Fire Scene BBS-HST-(504)641-4789 (1:390/2)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 293 of 300
 From : NIGHT BREED                         1:360/15        .îí 20 Hîÿ 95 21:38
 To   : THE RAVEN
 Subj : Quickening effects
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

TR> TR>      Christopher Lambert wouldn't committ because of his blindness.
TR>     Sorry, no hoax.  The man has been slowly blind slowly for about the
TR>past fifteen years.  At first (re: right around when the Highlander film
TR>came out) it was easily correctible with contacts.  Now he has to wear
TR>*very* thick glasses to see correctly, and even then it isn't perfect.  He'l
TR>be completely blind soon...

      Could you tell me what he's planning on doing now? Because I am
      legally blind myself & have greatly enjoyed his work. I wish I
      could find an address for him as I'd like to write & tell him so.

TR>     In an interview in Premiere magazine, he said that action scenes are
TR>getting harder and harder to do, because more "off-screen" help is needed to

      Could you give me an Idea where I could find this article?

TR>room at all for improvisation (as Adrian Paul is wont to do...)  Take a look

      Why can't I find any other roles for Adrian? Has he had any other
      roles, where? I collect autographed photos & would like to add his
      but so far can find no address to write to.

TR>     I'll tell you the truth, Todd, my hat's off to the man.

        I admire him even more now, thanks for the information. BTW does
        he have any kids? married? Haven't found out much but the mov
       ie talk..  Where do you get your info?




TR>... Life is full of little surprises.
TR>--- Blue Wave/RA v2.20 [NR]
TR> * Origin: Forethought BBS -=- Orlando, FL -=- 407-679-6561 (1:363/309)

---
 * OLX 2.1 TD * Never trust a woman with fangs!
 * Origin: The DARK FOREST, Martinez, GA (1:360/15)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 294 of 300
 From : NIGHT BREED                         1:360/15        .óá 25 Hîÿ 95 01:44
 To   : SHAWN MERROW
 Subj : Highlander
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

SM>Any one from the highlands of Scotland is a Highlander.

       Now, if there were just a few 6', long haired, wild eyed
  warriors around with plenty of passion......
      I'm just a lass lonely for a taste of her homeland....<G>

---
 * OLX 2.1 TD * Press "+" to see another tagline.
 * Origin: The DARK FOREST, Martinez, GA (1:360/15)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 295 of 300
 From : Tommy Kellerman                     2:205/356       .pä 22 Hîÿ 95 23:08
 To   : Todd Sullivan
 Subj : Quickening effects
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
In a message dated 07-Nov-95 15:13:39, Todd Sullivan wrote:

 AVD> is it explained why the character is DUNCAN macleod and not CONNER?
 AVD> anmd why is duncan the highlander, i thought conner was...

 TS> It's based on the movie, and takes the premise that Connor, after taking
 TS> out the Kurgan, wasn't the "only one".  This series follows Duncan because
 TS> Christopher Lambert (Connor) might have not been available to do a series,
 TS> while Adrian Paul (Duncan) was.  I'm not sure.  It's later explained (when
 TS> Duncan meets Joe Dawson) that there were/are more immortals than anyone
 TS> has suspected, and the "prize" still awaits a winner.

Sorry for interrupting, but I just wanted to say that Highlander is a KULT -
movie, as well as the third movie, "The Sorcerer".
Too bad though, they had to release the second movie in the trilogy.
It felt like a total rip-off... None of that.

Has the "prize" finally been won...?



/// -Tommy K.- \\\   - There can be only one... -

--- Xenolink 1.0 Z.3, EmacsXL.4
 * Origin: NoLimit, Furudal +46-258-10071 (2:205/356)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 296 of 300
 From : Tommy Kellerman                     2:205/356       .pä 22 Hîÿ 95 23:14
 To   : American Werewolf
 Subj : Re: Species
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
In a message dated 08-Nov-95 14:10:12, American Werewolf wrote:

 TK> Does anyone out there know anything about this movie called "Species"
 TK> ? I've heard it's about to be released in Europe anytime now;
 TK> has anyone seen it ?

 AW>  Species? Ok<lets see, what can I tell you about it without spoiling it
 AW>  too much>. The Lady in the lead role is very interesting, she even has
 AW> one
 AW>  scene where she killed some poor sap so he won't answer the door.

And finally, Species has come to Sweden, after months of endless (?)
waiting.

I hope it was worth it...

/// -Tommy K.- \\\   -"You can run, but you can't hide..."-

--- Xenolink 1.0 Z.3, EmacsXL.4
 * Origin: NoLimit, Furudal +46-258-10071 (2:205/356)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 297 of 300
 From : Tommy Kellerman                     2:205/356       .pä 22 Hîÿ 95 23:17
 To   : David Johnston
 Subj : Quickening Effects
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
In a message dated 08-Nov-95 00:15:00, David Johnston wrote:

 DJ> -> is it explained why the character is DUNCAN macleod and not CONNER?
 DJ> -> anmd why is duncan the highlander, i thought conner was...

 DJ> It's so they could have Connor Mcleod appear on the show to boost the
 DJ> ratings for the pilot.  (Something I wish they hadn't done.)

I agree... Christopher Lambert stole the entire show.


/// -Tommy K.- \\\

--- Xenolink 1.0 Z.3, EmacsXL.4
 * Origin: NoLimit, Furudal +46-258-10071 (2:205/356)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 298 of 300
 From : Tommy Kellerman                     2:205/356       .pä 22 Hîÿ 95 23:29
 To   : Chris Ogniben
 Subj : Nuclear space drives
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
In a message dated 09-Nov-95 10:51:34, Chris Ogniben wrote:

 CO>    I don't find it possible that matter anti-matter reactor would
 CO> become a reality.. And, that our true future for space exploration
 CO> would be powered by such reactors.. I do see nuclear reactors to be the
 CO> main power for eletricity in space ships.  And, large tanks of fuel to
 CO> burn for the engines.

If a fusion reaction started by a powerful laser-beam will become a reality,
real enough to fuel a ship or probe to the outer planets, I think it's
going to be able to travel quite a distance without refuelling and it will
be less dangerous as well.

If there are such things as "worm-holes", space exploration could be at
an inter-stellar phase. I wonder if...


/// -Tommy K.- \\\

--- Xenolink 1.0 Z.3, EmacsXL.4
 * Origin: NoLimit, Furudal +46-258-10071 (2:205/356)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 299 of 300
 From : Keith Stokes                        1:377/50        .åò 23 Hîÿ 95 21:13
 To   : Ruby Tuesday
 Subj : canadian stuff
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
* In a message originally to All, Ruby Tuesday said:

RT>
RT>has anybody come across any science fictin with "Canadian
RT>content" that's worthwhile?

Do you mean SF written by Canadians or do you mean SF set in Canada?

I've enjoyed quite a bit of the first, but haven't seen a great deal
of the later.

Do you include fantasy?

  Keith

ConQuesT 27  Kansas City, MO  Memorial Day Weekend, 1996  Guests include: Allan
Steele, Lee Killough, Lubov, Myrna Logan, Many others.

 * Origin: Infinity (1:280/5)
--- FidoPCB v1.4 [ff083/x]
 * Origin: The GIFfer BBS, 250,000+files (813)960-7267 USR/V.all (1:377/50)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 300 of 300
 From : Keith Stokes                        1:377/50        .åò 23 Hîÿ 95 21:07
 To   : David Hilling
 Subj : Favorites
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
* In a message originally to All, David Hilling said:

DH>Are there any other Robert Heinlein fans out there? All this

Probably at least 20. Was something in particular that you wanted to
discuss about him? :-)


DH>I'd also be interested in hearing about anything new from
DH>Christopher
DH>Stasheff, as long as it's not another Warlock book.  Does he
DH>have
DH>some kind of bet going with Anne McCaffrey or what?

I just recently discovered Stasheff. So far, I've read two of his books, A
COMPANY OF STARS and a second one that's name escapes me. Liked them both.

Do you recomend the Warlock novels?  Do you know if he ever continued the
Starship Troupers series that he started with A COMPANY OF STARS in 1991. I
have found no sequals :-(

CBIP 195/295 in K. D. Wentworth's HOUSE OF MOONS.

   Keith

 * Origin: Infinity (1:280/5)
--- FidoPCB v1.4 [ff083/x]
 * Origin: The GIFfer BBS, 250,000+files (813)960-7267 USR/V.all (1:377/50)

Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 1 of 423
 From : Todd Sullivan                       1:202/720.3     .ÿò 24 Hîÿ 95 15:26
 To   : The Raven
 Subj : Stevie!?
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Whilst falling into the sun on 23 Nov 95, The Raven yelled to Brian Henderson:

 BH>> Of course, and I'm sure that we've all see the moderated groups where
 BH>> the moderator decides that it's his own personal newsgroup and dumps
 BH>> anything that disagrees with his own ideas.

 TR>      Are you familiar with Steve Winter?

<flinch, shudder>

Was that really necessary, Jack?  I'd about forgotten that glorified twit.

Todd Sullivan

... "Lo, how the hollow fiend speaks within him!" --Shakespeare

-*- ASTG 1.9

--- Spot 1.3a Unregistered
 * Origin: Todd's Spot in the Continuum (1:202/720.3)

Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 2 of 423
 From : David Reffitt                       1:280/341       .óá 25 Hîÿ 95 08:42
 To   : Darre LuAllen
 Subj : Re: Vir Cotto
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
I do see your point.

---
 * Origin: Beyond the Pale 913-384-1577 (1:280/341)

Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 3 of 423
 From : Jo De Man                           2:291/1102.10   .åò 23 Hîÿ 95 22:53
 To   : Star Hawk
 Subj : Weber
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Hello Star Hawk (anything behind the name ?)

17 Nov 95, Star Hawk writes to Jo De Man:

 SH> From my perch I saw this come out of the gravity well from Jo De Man:
 [>> Jo De Man [> Met the guy .. waw; If you don't mind my asking, how
 [>> did that happen? Talk about anything interesting?
 SH>      He was a guest at LibertyCon this summer

What is libertyCon ? (probably a stupid question, but hey, I am over here in
Belgium)

 [>> get a hold of them in Belgium)
 SH>      OK... [list edited a little...]
 [>> -Insurrection
 [>> -Crusade
 SH>      Unsure if there will be any more novels set in the Starfire RPG
 SH> universe, but it's always possible.

Still has a lot of potential. Starfire RPG ??? What is that all about ?

 [>> -Oath of Swords (hope he writes a sequel to that one)
 SH>      You're in luck, he said that there's more of Bahzell's travels

........

 SH> the cover artist blew it with the ears of Bahzell and Brandark;
 SH> hradani ears are more like those of a fox, and are closer to the top
 SH> of the head rather than the sides.

He looked a bit like an overgrown vulcan...

 [>> -Mutineers' Moon & Armageddon Inheritance (gimme more!)
 SH>      There may be one more book in this `universe' to be written
 SH> sometime in the future.

Heard his next book (inheriters of the empire or something like that) is in
this series (sounds good )

 [>> -Path of the Fury (!)
 SH>      I think this one was a stand-alone, with no follow-up planned
 SH> [to the best my knowledge].

<sigh> We can only hope ... It ended in a nice setup for further adventures

 [>> Short Victorious War
 [>> Field of Dishonor
 [>> Flag in Exile
 SH>  That's the complete Harrington series published to date.  FLAG
 SH> IN EXILE hadn't been released at the time of the con, and David Weber
 SH> was
 SH> telling us stories about the cover art for that book.  Seems that the
 SH> Graysons based their knowledge of swords and sword duels from Japanese

..........
Whish he would get her back in command of a Manticorian ship ... He might want
to ease off the duelling bit for a while ... She certainly sliced op the bad
guys in the last book...

 SH>      You list matches mine; if he has published anything else, i
 SH> don't
 SH> know of it.

Noticed an anthology-book about bolos (not sure out of which universe the
original bolo tank came), maybe I'll buy it... (usually I don't buy short
stories, I like something I can sink my teeth into)

 [>> Jo De Man [> Any new ones forthcoming?
 SH>      Not in the immediate future, to the best of my knowledge; but you
 SH> might want to pick up three books written by Steve White [Weber's
 SH> coauthor on the Starfire books], THE DISINHERITED, LEGACY, and DEBT OF
 SH> AGES, from Baen Books.  The first one [DISINHERITED] is the strongest,

I think I read disinherited a long time ago.. could you say what the plot was
about ?

SH> but the sequels don't drop off too much [even though White turns the
SH> storyline in a weird direction, or two, in them].

Am i mistaken or does he drag in some arthurian stuff in it ??

PS : try some of the wing commander books (like in the computer game)
Not the fist one by lackey or the last one (heart of the tiger)
I think you'll like them ...

Bye ! ,

Jo

... Smash forehead on keyboard to continue......
--- FMail/386 1.02
 * Origin: Space for rent (2:291/1102.10)

Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 4 of 423
 From : Richard Hudson                      1:141/450       .óá 25 Hîÿ 95 17:23
 To   : Nancy Crockett
 Subj : Highlander:  New Season
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
===========================================================================
 BBS: The Pleasure Palace BBS
Date: 11-22-95 (15:17)             Number: 1855
From: NANCY CROCKETT               Refer#: 1805
  To: THE RAVEN                     Recvd: NO
Subj: Highlander:  New Season        Conf: (9) Sffan
___------------------------------------------------------------------------

NC>     Hey! I was just reading messages and noticed you and Marc talking about
NC>Highlander, the series, my favorite show. I have been
NC>trying to find people to talk about it with and haven't had
NC>much success. My husband and I are members of the official
NC>Highlander club in Denver and went there in October for the
NC>convention. Adrian Paul, Stan Kirsch, Jim Byrnes, and Peter
NC>Wingfield were there. Also the producer, writer and sword
NC>master. We had a great time and got pictures and autographs
NC>and spent way to much money.
NC>     Are you interested enough in Highlander to join a few
NC>of us in watching the series from the beginning? I have pre-
NC>recorded euro versions and a surround sound system. If you
NC>are, meet us at Pizzettis at 10910 E. 31st on Dec. 1st at
NC>6:30. My husband and I will be wearing Highlander T-shirts.
NC>We will probably watch the first 3 or 4 episodes that night
NC>and get together again probably about once a month.

NC>... Error 3032 - Recursion error. See error 3032.
NC>--- FMail 1.02
NC> * Origin: Tulsa Chat BBS-Tulsa, Ok-(918) 234-1352 (1:170/600)

Im a highlander fan. Let's talk. By the way who is your favorite villan.
___
 * SLMR 2.0 * May The Great Bird Of the Galaxy bless VOY THey need it!

--- Maximus 3.00
 * Origin: The Pleasure Palace BBS (1:141/450)

Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 5 of 423
 From : Star Hawk                           1:362/708.6     .åò 23 Hîÿ 95 00:11
 To   : Brion Lienhart
 Subj : Weber
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
From my perch I saw this come out of the gravity well from Brion Lienhart:

  [> Brion Lienhart [> Well, he is credited in the games Starfire
  [> and Starfire Imperium. He also has a short in _Bolos 3:The
  [> [Whatever]_. I think he has a couple of stories in the Man-Kzin
  [> Wars books, but I can't remember which ones.

     I meant "carrying his name on the cover".  It's hard to keep track of tales
published in collections and 'zines.

                                        Star Hawk, the EchoTrickster

--- MacWoof Eval:23Dec93
 * Origin: William Bull Hedrick @ Hawk Haven's Orbital Point (1:362/708.6)

Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 6 of 423
 From : Barton Paul Levenson                1:129/26        .óá 25 Hîÿ 95 15:38
 To   : Ed Brannin
 Subj : red dwarf
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
I like it while regretting its generally nasty tone.

--- Maximus 3.00
 * Origin: SoundingBoard, Pittsburgh PA (1:129/26)

Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 7 of 423
 From : Barton Paul Levenson                1:129/26        .óá 25 Hîÿ 95 15:40
 To   : David Hilling
 Subj : Favorites
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
I like some of Heinlein's work (generally, the juveniles and _Friday_) while
disliking the rest (any of the up-with-freedom-space-and-incest late novels).

--- Maximus 3.00
 * Origin: SoundingBoard, Pittsburgh PA (1:129/26)

Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 8 of 423
 From : Daniel Nystrom                      2:205/355.29    .cê 26 Hîÿ 95 22:19
 To   : All
 Subj : Gibson
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Hi!

Someone want to chat about William Gibson's books?

I've just reached the end of MONA LISA Overddrive...

But I have already read Neuromancer, Virtual Light!


  - Daniel NystrÔm


--- Spot 1.3a Unregistered
 * Origin: - TwiLight Sky, A Caress Of Stars, SWE (2:205/355.29)

Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 9 of 423
 From : Nicolai Shapero                     1:102/524       .cê 26 Hîÿ 95 09:01
 To   : Ed Brannin
 Subj : Re: red dwarf
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Nov 24 19:45>, Ed Brannin (1:2613/135@fidonet.org) wrote to David Little:

[message deleted for brevity]

You quoted an entire message, origin line and tag lines included.  This is an
overuse of the quote function.  Please restrict your quoting to relevant
portions of the message quoted ONLY.

Thank you for your cooperation,

-- Nicolai Shapero, Moderator of the SFFAN echo

--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 10 of 423
 From : Keith Stokes                        1:280/5         .cê 26 Hîÿ 95 21:00
 To   : Todd Sullivan
 Subj : Casting Pern
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE/2 1.2
* In a message originally to Todd Sullivan, David Hilling said:

TS> I have no idea; I'd like to see it happen, but McCaffery's lawyers are
TS> a nasty bunch; ask why Brigadoon isn't called PernNet any more.

That isn't nasty. That is just protecting the rights of Ms McCaffrey
and her estate.  If those rights aren't protected from realatively
innocent infringments, they are lost for more commercial purposes as well.

   Keith

 * Origin: Infinity (1:280/5)

Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 11 of 423
 From : Mark Holtz                          1:203/1701      .cê 26 Hîÿ 95 23:59
 To   : All
 Subj : Upcoming Babylon Five Episodes
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
US Air Week      PCode Episode Title
-==============- -===- -=====================================================-
Nov 20-Nov 26 95 303   A Day in the Strife
Nov 27-Dec  3 95 305   Passing Through Gethsemane
-                304   Voices of Authority
-                306   Dust to Dust
-                307   Exogenesis
-                308   Messages From Earth
-                309   Point Of No Return
-                310   Severed Dreams
-                311   Ceremonies of Light and Dark
-                312   A Late Delivery from Avalon
-                315   [Unknown]-Part 1
-                316   [Unknown]-Part 2
-                313   Sic Transit Vir

BABYLON 5: Episode Information and Spoilers

By David Strauss & Others (dstrauss@netcom.com, replayer@genie.com)

Season Three: I am become Death, the Destroyer of Worlds

  "The Babylon Project was our last, best hope for peace...it failed.  But in
  the year of the Shadow war, it became something greater...our last, best
  hope for victory. The year is 2260. The place: Babylon 5."

  -- Commander Susan Ivanova, Opening Narration, Season Three.

3. (303) A Day in the Strife - Written by JMS.  As Garibaldi tries to deal
with the increasingly powerful Nightwatch, an alien probe makes first contact
with the station. G'Kar tries to solidify his position among the Narn.  Londo
calls in the favor that Delenn owes him. Basically an episode in which
everything that can go wrong goes wrong.

4. (305) Passing Through Gethsemane - Written by JMS.  Lyta Alexander returns
to the station at Kosh's behest. Theo discovers that he may have a hidden
past.

5. (304) Voices of Authority - Written by JMS.  Ivanova and Marcus enlist
Draal's help to attempt to contact more of the First Ones.

6. (306) Dust to Dust - Written by JMS. An addictive drug spreads through the
station, prompting a factfinding visit by Bester. G'Kar reaches a turning
point. Walter Koenig guest stars as Bester. Kosh...we'll see him again outside
his suit in "Dust to Dust," but in a somewhat unconventional fashion....

7. (307) Exogenesis - Written by JMS. Marcus and Dr. Franklin combat an
invasion by parasitic aliens that attach themselves to humans.

8. (308) Messages From Earth - Written by JMS. Sheridan discovers a connection
between President Clark and a sinister figure, leading to a confrontation with
the Earth military. The Nightwatch attempt to take over the station.

9. (309) Point Of No Return - Majel Barrett plays Emperor Turhan's Third Wife,
Lady Morella, a prophetess and seer.

10. (310) Severed Dreams - Major Twist in Babylon series.

11. (311) Ceremonies Of Light and Dark - We find out more about the
relationship between Delenn and Lennier.

13&14. (315&316) [Unknown] - Sinclair arrives to try and bring Babylon 4
forward in time.

From JMS....

* There will be an Ivanova romance...but not necessarily with whom you might
  expect.
* Vir is *not* leaving the show. We're making some room for him to do his new
  sitcom; he's in episodes 3 and 5 so far, and more to come, of season 3.
* You'll be seeing more of Zack Allen.
* New characters: well, there's Marcus Cole, a Ranger assigned permanently to
  Babylon 5, played by British actor Jason Carter; we'll see Lyta Alexander
  more this year; and Theo...what can I say about Theo...well, perhaps better
  to let you see for yourself.
* We do plan to continue our practice of getting more ambitious each season;
  we saw virtually none of the homeworlds in year one; in year two we began to
  see more of Narn, and Centauri Prime, with some locations in the latter. We
  will continue to expand in each following year; in year three, we plan to
  show Minbar, more of Centauri Prime, the Narn homeworld, Earth and *maybe*
  the Vorlon homeworld, if I can figure out how to do it at this stage without
  totally imploding the show. New sets: yes, and we're creating situations in
  which we can see more of Earth, Mars, our other local planets, plus Narn,
  Centauri, Minbari and one other major world. As the Shadow War cranks into
  gear, you're going to need a place to meet in security and plan for it, so
  we're also building that. We'll see more of Draal's place on Epsilon 3.  And
  there's one other major set that we'll see in the first episode, and quite a
  bit thereafter. We'll see Minbar at least once in year three, perhaps more.
  We'll see more of the Epsilon 3 complex this coming season, yes.
* What's great is that this season, we haven't had one single episode on the
  level of War Prayer or Infection or Grail, some of our weaker first season
  eps.  The worst we've done is pretty darned good. What we're now working for
  in year three is that they're all better than that at their baseline rating.
  And so far, they're killer . . .  We're also doing some major EFX blow-outs
  of a type other than "they go into space and shoot stuff." Very interesting,
  creative, offbeat stuff.
* Never said the shadow war would be over in one year. Only that it wouldn't
  last three.
* What is the origin of the Human/Minbari connection? You'll find out this
  very season (year three), in no uncertain or ambiguous terms. You're
  assuming that the relationship you saw between Delenn and Sinclair was a
  romantic one. It was a close one, on her part in particular, but not based
  on romance.  We'll explain what that means in year three.
* Yes, the Rangers will play a more important part in year three, and
  Sinclair's part in it will be revealed.
--
David Strauss / dss2k@virginia.edu  <*>
Home Page: http://www.eskimo.com/~dstrauss/
Administrator, New York Islanders Mailing List
The Psi Corps is your friend.  Trust the Corps.

--- MsgPost 1.1
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Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 12 of 423
 From : David Hilling                       1:262/32        .cê 26 Hîÿ 95 20:03
 To   : Darre Luallen
 Subj : Favorites
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Quoting Darre Luallen  to David Hilling Subj: Favorites  ::

 DL> Anyway, I'd love to hear your opinion on various Heinlein (or others
 DL> if I have  read them or not) sories.  By the way, what did you think of
 DL> Puppet Masters?

Loved the book. I was somewhat less impressed with the movie at first. Upon
further reflection and a couple more viewings, I mellowed somewhat. After
all, people will only sit still for so long at a time. Besides, if they
had stuck too close to the book, this would have earned them the dreaded
NC-17 rating for excessive nudity. My all time favorites among Heinlein's
work shift a bit from time to time. (Usually it's whichever one I have in
my hand at the moment.) <g> My favorite thing about RAH is that he didn't
write very much crap. (O.K. I Will Fear No Evil was pretty lame. It could
have been a lot better. If you're interested in why it wasn't, see Grumbles
From the Grave.)  I firmly believe that his "Requiem" is the yardstick by
which all short SF stories (Hell, ALL short stories) should be measured.
This, of course, is just my humble opinion and I'll probably hear a lot of
disagreement. <EG>
Stasheff can be a little tedious, and a couple of the books in the Warlock
series (notably Warlock Rock) are enough to embarrass even Piers Anthony.
<g,r,d>


... Choking on *another* Xanth novel?  Apply the Heinlein Maneuver!
---
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 Msg  : 13 of 423
 From : David Hilling                       1:262/32        .cê 26 Hîÿ 95 20:03
 To   : Myra I Fox
 Subj : Terry Pratchett
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
::To: David Hilling  From: Myra I Fox  Subj: Terry Pratchett  ::
----------------------@N

 -=>Quoting David Hilling to Myra I Fox<=-

 DH> Have you read The Bromeliad by Terry Pratchett?  That one was a lot of
 DH> fun.

 MIF> No, but I just noticed that the SFBC has it this month.  Maybe I need
 MIF> to order myself an Xmas present <smile>.

 Have you been naughty or nice? <leer>
 This is a really charming little story and well worth curling up with on a
 long winter evening. Usually, my tastes run more toward hard SF, but
 Pratchett is quite the storyteller.


... Hester Prynne got an A for adultery. I barely made a C-minus.
---
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Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 14 of 423
 From : David Hilling                       1:262/32        .óá 25 Hîÿ 95 11:57
 To   : Paul Goverts
 Subj : Favorites
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Quoting Paul Goverts to David Hilling on Subj:Favorites

 PG> Well, I am starting to get into Heinlein, I read Stranger in a Strange
 PG> Land for the first time about a month ago...

Gee that's funny, I read it for about the eightieth time last month. <g>
The Moon is A Harsh Mistress is another good one.
WARNING: Don't even think about reading his last three (Number of the Beast,
The Cat Who Walks Through Walls, and To Sail Beyond the Sunset) until you
have read everything else he's written or you will be very, very confused.
The Past Through Tomorrow is a compendium volume of the Dean's "Future
History" stories. (Note:"Future History" is Damon Knight's term for the
series, not Mr. Heinlein's.)
IMHO "Requiem" still stands as one of the finest SF short stories ever
written. I am still unable to finish it without this strange mist forming
in my eyes.  Likewise, the much neglected "The Man Who Traveled in Elephants"
which is anthologized in The Unpleasant Profession of Jonathan Hoag (Also
published as Heinlein x 6.)
Space and copyright considerations prevent me from quoting in full Spider
Robinson's fine essay "Rah, Rah, RAH!" in full, but it is in Time Travelers
Strictly Cash (Everything else in the book is first class too, as are
his other five Callahan books.) This essay sums up many of my own feelings
and opinions about the man.
While I will happily defend my position that R.A.H. is the finest writer
of SF anywhere, anywhen, I do have several other favorite authors.
These include the above-mentioned Mr. Robinson (can you say `God's Blessing?'
I knew you could), Arthur C. Clarke, Christopher Stasheff (blush), Anne
McCaffrey, Joel Rosenberg, Larry Niven and Jerry Pournelle. Strangely enough,
with the exception of Stasheff, Mr. Clarke and Ms. McCaffrey all of the
above show distinct Heinlein influence as, I might add, does Tom Clancy.
Well if this post gets any longer, you'll not have time to read a book
for a while.
May you never thirst.

Oh yeah, remember: "Kissing girls is a goodness. It beats the hell out of
card games."

... Robert Anson Heinlein, RIP.  Your name is remembered.
---
 À Blue Wave/DOS v2.21 [NR] À
--- Renegade v10-05 Exp
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Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 15 of 423
 From : Tommy Kellerman                     2:205/356       .cê 26 Hîÿ 95 21:40
 To   : Jo De Man
 Subj : Species
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Hey Jo, what's up ?


In a message dated 18-Nov-95 08:52:00, Jo De Man wrote:

 TK>> "Species"
 JDM>> I haven't sen it but from what I hear on Fidonet you wouldn't
 JDM>> want to...
 TK>     What have you heard about it ? In European MTV it won't go a
 TK> single day without at least ten screenflashes, but UK always get ahead
 TK> on us at the movie part.

 JDM> Everybody who has seen it says the same things : nice effects, average
 JDM> thriller. Once you are onto the plot, you just know what is going to
 JDM> happen.


Well, I'm about to see it next week. Anyways, thanks for telling me what
I wanted to know.

Do U know where to get a copy of the old sci-fi movie  "Dune" ?
I have quite a problem finding a PAL-version because of the fact that it's
old. I can't use any NTSC-versions...

Sincerely,

/// -Tommy- \\\    *- Be kewl -*

--- Xenolink 1.0 Z.3, EmacsXL.4
 * Origin: NoLimit, Furudal +46-258-10071 (2:205/356)

Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 16 of 423
 From : Paul Goverts                        1:2613/135      .îí 27 Hîÿ 95 18:03
 To   : David Hilling
 Subj : Favorites
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

-=> Quoting David Hilling to Paul Goverts <=-

 PG> Well, I am starting to get into Heinlein, I read Stranger in a Strange
 PG> Land for the first time about a month ago...

 DH> Gee that's funny, I read it for about the eightieth time last month.

 <g> The Moon is A Harsh Mistress is another good one.

 DH> WARNING: Don't even think about reading his last three (Number of the
 DH> Beast, The Cat Who Walks Through Walls, and To Sail Beyond the Sunset)

Thanks for the suggestions.  I'll check out those books...

Paul

... Drop your carrier ... we have you surrounded!


--- QScan/PCB v1.18b / 01-0527
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Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 17 of 423
 From : J.T. Smith                          1:132/152       .cê 26 Hîÿ 95 10:24
 To   : Bianca Wesslak
 Subj : Re: Questions, But Are T
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Contact has been made.

 CO> I don't find it possible that matter anti-matter reactor would
 CO> become a reality.. And, that our true future for space exploration
 CO> would be powered by such reactors.. I do see nuclear reactors to be
 CO> the main power for eletricity in space ships.  And, large tanks of fuel
 CO> to burn for the engines.
 BW> sorry to but in but i have to disagree.
 BW> 1.  we will not be able to go very far on large tanks of fuel

 Actually, in space, friction is effectively non-existant.  The only thing
 that will stop an object once it is in motion in space is either: impact
 with another object (e.g. planet, star, ship, black hole, etc.); the
 gravitational pull of another object; or reverse thrust equalling the
 initial thrust that produced the "forward" motion.  Otherwise, it's a simple
 case of aim yerself at yer destination, set off an explosion, and pray that
 ye can stop again w/out colliding w/ something, including yer destination.

 BW> 2.  Nuclear power is extremely dangerous,

 Agreed.

 BW> and it kinda leaves radiation  behind.

 All fuels do.  For example, a simple fire produces radiation.  It's just
 that some forms of radiation are harmful to carbon-based lifeforms and some
 are not.  Even then, there are carbon-based lifeforms which are adapted so
 that the "local" radiation won't harm them.




... I was raised by psychopathic werewolves.
--- Blue Wave v2.12 [NR]
 * Origin: The Cereal Port BBS (OS/2) Rindge,NH 603-899-3335 (1:132/152)

Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 18 of 423
 From : J.T. Smith                          1:132/152       .cê 26 Hîÿ 95 10:24
 To   : Myra I Fox
 Subj : Tom Holt
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Contact has been made.

 JS> I *LOVE* his stuff.  Flying Dutch was good.  Haven't seen Ye Gods
 JS> yet, but intend to look for it!
 MIF> I liked "Ye Gods" even better.  Lots of funny lines in it.

 Me favourite to date has to be "Who's Afraid Of Beowulf."  Probably because
 1) it was the first one I read, and 2) it contains two elements very near
 and dear to me: Archaeology, and Scotland! D)

 MIF> I just finished with "Good Omens" and "Eric".  "Eric" was good just
 MIF> because it had Rincewind and the Luggage <g>.
 MIF> They had "Lords and Ladies" at Borders (checked it out last weekend)
 MIF> but I didn't have the money to buy it <sigh>.
 JS> Are these also Holt books??
 MIF> No they are by another British humor/fantasy author named Terry
 MIF> Pratchett.  I would predict if you like Tom Holt then you would like
 MIF> his books too.

 I have a couple of his books in me personal library.  Haven't gotten the
 chance to read them yet.  Some day though. D)



... "The future is built on dreams. Hang on to them." - Optimus Prime
--- Blue Wave v2.12 [NR]
 * Origin: The Cereal Port BBS (OS/2) Rindge,NH 603-899-3335 (1:132/152)

Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 19 of 423
 From : Jon Roth                            1:143/254       .îí 27 Hîÿ 95 18:13
 To   : All
 Subj : Re: Nowhere Man - "crash"
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
I think it is showing that perceptions are being shattered.  That, of the world
that the *normal* people live in.  As for the pencil and cigar, maybe it is just
a way of saying *badguy* in a james bond type style.
--- CNet/3
 * Origin: Gnome's Guest Room BBS - (408)554-6689 (1:143/254)

Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 20 of 423
 From : Jon Roth                            1:143/254       .îí 27 Hîÿ 95 18:17
 To   : Daniel Nystrom
 Subj : Re: Gibson
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
        I read all of them.  BTW, you did not meniton reading it, but *burning
chrome* takes place between Neuromancer and Mona, however, the stories arent
related that strongly.
--- CNet/3
 * Origin: Gnome's Guest Room BBS - (408)554-6689 (1:143/254)

Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 21 of 423
 From : Ken Hawkins                         1:359/530       .cê 26 Hîÿ 95 13:39
 To   : Frank Glover
 Subj : RE: QUESTIONS, BUT ARE T
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Frank,

FG>Indeed. Solar enthusiasts (and I do consider myself one) should
FG>remember that the Sun (and any other star) is a natural
FG>*unshielded*
FG>fusion reactor. That's why space crews in SF and reality are always
FG>
FG>wary of solar flare storms, and why we down here worry about ozone
FG>depletion. That's where the hard ultraviolet comes from, after
FG>all....
FG>
FG>And then there are those who sit out in the Sun (like mad dogs
FG>and
FG>Englishmen) and *invite* skin damage.
FG>
FG>Nothing's perfectly safe, and the danger's not always what we
FG>think
FG>it is.

    You have hit the nail right on the head! There is
sufficient media attention brought to bear on anything to do
with nuclear energy, and any injuries/deaths as a result of
its use; but how many coal miners have died or been
permanently disabled due to "black lung"? How many due to cave
ins and explosions? How many seals/otters/seagulls/crabs/fish
die every time an oil tanker springs a leak? I personally
think that wind and solar could, with development, replace our
current stationary generating systems. But there will still be
a need, especially in space, for a smaller, more powerful
energy source, and at this time, only nuclear power fits the bill.
    .
TTYL, Satch
Sasquatch BBS, Terrace,BC, Canada
___
* UniQWK v4.1 * The Windows Mail Reader


--- PCBoard (R) v15.22/10
 * Origin: Sasquatch BBS, Terrace, BC (1:359/530)

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 Msg  : 22 of 423
 From : Shawn Merrow                        1:3407/14       .ÿò 24 Hîÿ 95 23:36
 To   : All
 Subj : Seaquest 2032
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
** News Flash **
Seaquest 2032 has been cancealed. No reason known.
Posilbly killed by the Nelsons. Recomnd kill the
Nelson family. For crimes aginst the science
fiction audieance.

--- QScan/PCB v1.16b / 01-0024
 * Origin:  (1:3407/14)

Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 23 of 423
 From : The Raven                           1:363/309       .cê 26 Hîÿ 95 11:19
 To   : Chris Carter
 Subj : B5 -- Coincidence?
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 CC> I do admit that there is no ready way to prove that he *didn't* lift
 CC> stuff, but I've been given little reason not to believe JMS when he
 CC> claims not to have been exposed to something.

     I know I am going to get crunched for even thinking this, but life can't
exist in a vacuum.  Every writer on the planet knows that you can't help but
be exposed to things, and you *always* use what you are exposed to for
inspiration, even when you don't know that you are doing it.



 KM> but the Earth Cruiser from the first season episode when that
 KM> old Minbari went down to the planet and the hostile aliens
 KM> came to try and claim it looked like it could have come right
 KM> out of Blazers, gun turrets and all.

     I always thought it looked like a submarine...


 CC> I'm sure he's thrown a few ideas at the folks at Foundation Imaging, but
 CC> if you want to claim that someone's been lifting ship designs from
 CC> anime, you'd be more likely to be correct if you pointed the finger at
 CC> the folks at Foundation Imaging.  They're much more likely to have been
 CC> influenced by anime (being interested in fresh visual concepts) than JMS.

     Good point.

     Jack Butler




... "The man who loses his opportunity loses himself." -- George Moore
--- Blue Wave/RA v2.20 [NR]
 * Origin: Forethought BBS -=- Orlando, FL -=- 407-679-6561 (1:363/309)

Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 24 of 423
 From : The Raven                           1:363/309       .cê 26 Hîÿ 95 11:19
 To   : Darre Luallen
 Subj : Vir Cotto
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 DL> The thing to remember is that Vir is a lowly attache and Londo is an
 DL> Ambassador.

     And now so is Vir.  Quite convenient to my "will Vir become a Ranger"
question...

     Jack Butler



... "Yeah, I'm fine Superman.  Where's Clark?" -- Lois Lane
--- Blue Wave/RA v2.20 [NR]
 * Origin: Forethought BBS -=- Orlando, FL -=- 407-679-6561 (1:363/309)

Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 25 of 423
 From : The Raven                           1:363/309       .cê 26 Hîÿ 95 11:20
 To   : Mark David
 Subj : Let us Glow, Let Us Glow, Let Us Glow!
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 MD> I wonder what she would make of the fact that roughly 10,000 die every
 MD> year  worldwide as a result of coal-fired plants, and I wonder how she
 MD> would  react when she discovers EPA regulations on domestic radiation
 MD> are 40x higher  than those placed on nuclear power plants.

     Yah... I really don't mind environmentalists.  I mean, I think the world
looks better without all that unbreathable crap in the air, the trees still
there, and lots of critters to look at, but I also think that there is a line
beyond which you cease to be reasonable.
     Some of the anti-nuclear arguments I've seen have not only slipped
across that line, but damned well marched...

     Jack Butler



... A religion is a heresy with an adequate army.
--- Blue Wave/RA v2.20 [NR]
 * Origin: Forethought BBS -=- Orlando, FL -=- 407-679-6561 (1:363/309)

Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 26 of 423
 From : The Raven                           1:363/309       .cê 26 Hîÿ 95 11:20
 To   : Bianca Wesslak
 Subj : Radiation...
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 BW> Not to mention now that because of nuclear bombs and chenobyl every baby
 BW> born now has some plutonium in their lungs.

     And?  A few molecules of plutonium does not make a case of radiation
poisoning.  You get more radiation from sitting in front of your computer
screen than from the free-floating radioactives in the air... and believe
me, there are a lot of *naturally*-*occurring* radioactives in the air.


 BW> We also have radioactive stuff in our stratosphere that takes way to
 BW> long to become safe.

     And we always have.  For the entire history of the earth, there has been
radioactive materials floating around the atmosphere, flowing around in the
water, and buried under the ground.  What we, as a technological species,
have added to this pile is miniscule in comparison.
     But we were talking about nuclear power.  Of all of the "artificial"
radiation put into the environment by us, nuclear power plants are the source
of remarkably little.
     If you *truly* are concerned about cutting down on the amount of
free-floating radioactives in the world, I'd get together with the rest of
your Greenpeace friends and start thinking of ways to extinguish the sun.
It is, after all, the most radioactive object in the neighborhood, and it
dumps *tons* of radioactive energy and particles on us 24 hours a day, 7 days
a week, 52 weeks a year.
     But then, if you put out the sun, you'd have other problems, wouldn't
you...

     Jack Butler



... "The clown is sometimes the best part of the circus." -+ Shaw
--- Blue Wave/RA v2.20 [NR]
 * Origin: Forethought BBS -=- Orlando, FL -=- 407-679-6561 (1:363/309)

Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 27 of 423
 From : The Raven                           1:363/309       .cê 26 Hîÿ 95 11:20
 To   : Nancy Crockett
 Subj : Highlander
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 NC> I am so happy to see people writing about Highlander. I noticed
 NC> someone asking you about the season being renewed. Where do you get
 NC> your info?

     That would be telling.  I have some friends among the production team.


 NC> I am a devoted fan of Highlander, and I am a member of the official
 NC> Highlander club out of Denver. Please read my message to ALL
 NC> about Highlander. Write to me anytime!

     I know.  You sent me that message in the HIGHLANDER echo.

     Jack Butler



... "Brandy, bottled in 1783... 1783 was a very good year." -- Connor
--- Blue Wave/RA v2.20 [NR]
 * Origin: Forethought BBS -=- Orlando, FL -=- 407-679-6561 (1:363/309)

Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 28 of 423
 From : The Raven                           1:363/309       .cê 26 Hîÿ 95 11:20
 To   : Robert Parson
 Subj : HIGHLANDER
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 RP> There's a different version going out to Europe?  What are some of the
 RP> major differences?

     For one thing, Richie has a love-life in Europe.  For another, the
standards regarding language and nudity aren't as stringent.

     Jack Butler



... "Nothing we do will bring anyone back!" -- Duncan MacLeod
--- Blue Wave/RA v2.20 [NR]
 * Origin: Forethought BBS -=- Orlando, FL -=- 407-679-6561 (1:363/309)

Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 29 of 423
 From : Mark Jones                          1:105/302.47    .pä 22 Hîÿ 95 19:50
 To   : Ruby Tuesday
 Subj : canadian stuff
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On (21 Nov 95) Ruby Tuesday wrote to All...

 RT> has anybody come across any science fictin with "Canadian
 RT> content" that's worthwhile?

Tanya Huff's "Blood..." series (four books) is pretty good, and it has
"Canadian content" -- the characters live and work in Toronto.

The heroine is a private eye.  She's a former Toronto detective who
quit the force because her progressive eye disease (retinitis
pigmentosa) is slowly blinding her.  Her night vision is virtually
gone and she's losing her peripheral vision by degrees.

She loved being a cop.  She HATES having to be a mere civilian now.

Her "partner in crime" is Henry Fitzroy, romance novelist
and...supernatural creature of the night.


--- PPoint 1.78
 * Origin: Folcroft Sanitarium (hsmith@cure.com) (1:105/302.47)

Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 30 of 423
 From : Mark Jones                          1:105/302.47    .ÿò 24 Hîÿ 95 16:34
 To   : Bianca Wesslak
 Subj : Questions, But Are T
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On (21 Nov 95) Bianca Wesslak wrote to Mark Jones...

 BW>  BW> 1.  we will not be able to go very far on large tanks of fuel

 BW>  MJ> ...but farther than we could go on *small* tanks of fuel.

 BW> Yes but it would take years to get anywhere. Just going to our
 BW> nearest star would take a long time. do we have the cargo space
 BW> for years worth of travel. Would we have to build genration
 BW> ships?

Interstellar travel is impractical now, given the technology we
possess.  That doesn't mean it will always be, though--even if we find
out that lightspeed *is* an unbendable rule.  My only point is that
large fuel capacity is better than small fuel capacity in most cases.

 MJ> Nuclear energy is far safer than many other kinds. (The same week
 MJ> the media was having hysterics about Three Mile Island lo those
 MJ> many years ago now, over fifty people died when a coal processing
 MJ> plant blew up. So far nobody has been killed by TMI.)

 BW> Oh ever hear of radiation poisoning. case in point, the russians
 BW> that were in the epicenter and the surrounding are of chenobyl.

I didn't say that nuclear power was perfectly safe--only that it is
safer than fossil fuels.  More people have been killed by the use of
fossil fuels both directly and indirectly than have been killed by
nuclear power (even counting Chernobyl).  Nuclear *weapons* are
irrelevant to the discussion--they are *weapons*, not power plants.

 BW> Not to mention now that because of nuclear bombs and chenobyl
 BW> every baby born now has some plutonium in their lungs.

Do you have evidence for this ridiculous claim?  Plutonium is both
radioactive and poisonous in the extreme.  If a baby has any plutonium
in his lungs, I wouldn't expect him to survive.

 BW> We also have radioactive stuff in our stratosphere that takes way
 BW> to long to become safe. Some of the nuclear energy that we are
 BW> messing around with and that we would have to use has way to long
 BW> half life spans. some of the half life that it would take would
 BW> be many thousands of years in the future. Probably wouldn't be
 BW> stable until another ice age has passed.

We also have poisonous compounds (generated by burning fossil fuels)
in the atmosphere, too.

Fissionables are either highly radioactive (and thus dangerous) or
have very long half-lives--but not both.  (If something was both
extremely radioactive *and* had a halflife of thousands of years, it
would be an ideal candidate for fuel.  Better to keep it all confined
inside a reactor core, generating electricity, than let it lie around
in the environment, right?)






--- PPoint 1.78
 * Origin: Folcroft Sanitarium (hsmith@cure.com) (1:105/302.47)

Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 31 of 423
 From : Mark Jones                          1:105/302.47    .ÿò 24 Hîÿ 95 16:43
 To   : Chris Ogniben
 Subj : Quickening effects
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On (22 Nov 95) Chris Ogniben wrote to The Raven...

 CO> Hey if i was an actor, i would go for the money too.. I mean,
 CO> only a stupid person would not take a movie deal, and stay with
 CO> tv. Since, you want more money, for the amount of hard work.. And
 CO> movies are a bit easier to make, since tv shows are like weekly
 CO> events. And actors and actresses have to work more, for less pay.

   McLean Stevenson left M*A*S*H after one or two seasons, certain
that he could make a successful career for himself now that he'd made
it to the big-time in a hit television series.  They wrote him out
permanently (killed him off), and he promptly disappeared with little
trace.  M*A*S*H, of course, ran for another decade...without him.

   Denise Crosby (Tasha Yar) left ST:TNG after a season or two,
probably with the same notion.  Her career is stunning only in its
lack of success.

   LOTS of television actors have thought that they could make the
jump from tv star to movie star, collecting millions of adoring fans,
millions of dollars and fame beyond all imaginging.
   MOST of them have been wrong.

   If I were getting $50-100,000 a week to star a tv series, I'd stick
around until the bitter end, myself.  And squirrel away most of that
money for later on.  When and if the tv show ends, I can try my hand
at movies (or do so during the hiatus).  If I succeed, great!  If not,
I still have a regular (and whopping big) paycheck to count on.

   I wouldn't call an actor who chooses to stick with a winning show
"stupid"....


--- PPoint 1.78
 * Origin: Folcroft Sanitarium (hsmith@cure.com) (1:105/302.47)

Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 32 of 423
 From : Brandon Wolgast                     1:363/216       .cê 26 Hîÿ 95 22:54
 To   : The Raven
 Subj : B5 -- Coincidence?
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: HyperMail! v1.22 94-0049

TR>     I know I am going to get crunched for even thinking this, but life can'
TR>exist in a vacuum.  Every writer on the planet knows that you can't help but
TR>be exposed to things, and you *always* use what you are exposed to for
TR>inspiration, even when you don't know that you are doing it.

Life as WE KNOW IT. I'll bet you anything there are countless life forms
for real out there someplace that can exist in space with no problems at
all.

---
 * OLX 2.1 TD * Then it is true, Payless has returned.

--- HyperMail 1.20
 * Origin: Data Systems Internat'l (407)292-8009 Call Today! (1:363/216)

Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 33 of 423
 From : Steve Martin                        1:271/285       .åò 23 Hîÿ 95 21:10
 To   : Ruby Tuesday
 Subj : canadian stuff
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Big Brother caught Ruby Tuesday & All crimespeaking about canadian
stuff.

 RT> has anybody come across any science fictin with "Canadian
 RT> content" that's worthwhile?

Hmm...  What do you mean by "Canadian content"?

de Lint might have something.  He writes fantasy, not SF, but is
certainly worthwhile if you're not a purist in that regard.


... Fad:  in one era and out the other.
--- GEcho 1.00
 * Origin: From Trekkies & from B5ers who hate Trek save us! (1:271/285.0)

Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 34 of 423
 From : Frank Swarbrick                     1:104/825       .ÿò 24 Hîÿ 95 19:07
 To   : Beverley Cote
 Subj : Q HEADING FOR VOYAGER
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12  92-0022
On 11-23-95  07:51 Ambassador Beverley Cote of the Minbari Federation said:

 MZ> The Raven was overheard talking to Karmin St.Jean,
 MZ> about Q HEADING FOR VOYAGER, in "Joe's Place" and said:

 TR> KS> It is not our Q (nor Q2 (Corbin Bernsen)) who is being tried. It is
 TR> KS> another Q, (played by Gerritt Graham (can we say "Stan Putterman",
 BC> boys
 TR> KS> and girls?))

 TR>     Close, but no cigar.  Stan Putterman (and, for that matter, George
 MZ> TR>Francisco) is played by Eric Pierpoint.  Gerritt Graham plays
 MZ> Matthew Sikes TR>(not to mention Achilles from "Robot Jox").

 MZ> Gary Graham who played Sikes played in another episode called Cold
 MZ> Fire dealing with Kess's psychokinetic powers and the caretakers
 MZ> companion.

 BC> Gerrit Graham also played the Tosk in an early DS9, and was Meat
 BC> in 'Phantom of the Paradise': music by Paul Williams (who also
 BC> starred), directed by Brian de Palma (I believe it was his first
 BC> film). One of my faves... :)

Just a note, but Graham played the Tosk Hunter, not Tosk himself.
Tosk was played by Scott MacDonald.

Oh, and yikes!  Gary Graham and Gerritt Graham are not the same person!
Gary Graham plays Sikes on Alien Nation.

        Frank

... "I'm a doctor, not a botanist" --Bashir
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12
 * Origin: The Bailey Information Exchange BBS, 28.8k v.fc  (1:104/825.0)

Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 35 of 423
 From : Richard Sarner                      1:271/236       .cê 26 Hîÿ 95 11:44
 To   : Nancy Crockett
 Subj : Re: Highlander
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE 1.11+
In a message to All <11-22-95 15:37> Nancy Crockett wrote:

NC=> Do you like Highlander, the series?
NC=> Do you like it well enough to watch it from the beginning with other
NC=> Highlander fans? (Euro-Versions)

Yes, and Yes! Unfortunatly, I am in Va and can;t make it out there. I do have a
miniGathering tet. slated for Jan-Feb to show off my Euros (mine! all mine! :)

NC=> Even if you don't attend, please write to me about Highlander. I love
NC=> to talk about past episodes, current episodes, the actors, you name

I too, was at the Gathering II and returned penniless, suffering from sleep
deprivation and the Adrianiac Flu. It was great! Are you aware of the Fido
Highlander echo? Ask for it by name, it hails from Arkham Asylum. I just
recieved the second Highlander Store catalog and saw the stuff we examined a
month ago. Will you be attending SyndiCon in Baltimore in May? Elizabeth Gracen
and Arrian are on the Invited list, but all the others from  the Gathering will
be there.

watch your head...
                   Richard    rsarner@widomaker.com

--- GEcho 1.11+
 * Origin: THE TIME MACHINE (804)599-6401 TRAVEL THE PORTALS! (1:271/236)

Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 36 of 423
 From : Richard Sarner                      1:271/236       .cê 26 Hîÿ 95 11:51
 To   : The Raven
 Subj : Re: Highlander:  New Season
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE 1.11+
In a message to Nancy Crockett <11-25-95 00:56> The Raven wrote:

TR=>      I am one of the self-appointed SME (Subject Matter Experts) on
TR=> FidoNet (the others are Cindy Shettle and Mark Jones).

This implies that there are only three. In fact, there are at least two others
who are outspoken and knowledgeable.

TR=> And if you have any questions at all, I'm the guy to ask...

Mark Jones is not a guy? Or just not *the* guy?  B-)

          ...Richard

--- GEcho 1.11+
 * Origin: THE TIME MACHINE (804)599-6401 TRAVEL THE PORTALS! (1:271/236)

Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 37 of 423
 From : Julie Rhodes                        1:226/110       .óá 25 Hîÿ 95 09:34
 To   : Chris Ogniben
 Subj : Krypton
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12  92-0004
Chris Ogniben said to The Raven regarding Krypton:

CO>If your a comic reader, than a collector.. You are missing out
CO>on a great personal buisness or hobby.  I mean, do you realize
CO>how much money you can make by collecting comics, and you still
CO>can read them.. But, you make a big profit later in life with them.

It is to laugh.  If you are a dealer, you *think* you're going to
retire on those back issues of Harbinger that you artificially
inflated by holding them back from the public (not that you'll get the
money from me--I come right out and say, "That's just too much.  I'll
wait for a more reasonable price."  That really burns the dealer
standing there with his precious Wizard Price Update in his hand.)  If
you are a "collector" you might get lucky and buy a copy of some issue
that becomes "hot" but a year later chances are it will be back in the
25 cent box.  The only comics that keep high value are the Golden Age
stuff that is truly hard to find in good condition.

Every time you buy three copies of something now, double bag them, and
say to yourself, "Someday these will be worth lots of money!" keep in
mind that two million other fanboys like yourself are doing exactly
the same thing.

And this isn't just my opinion; a very funny cartoon was published in
one issue of The Buyer's Guide a few years back that showed a vast
landscape of houses and out of every one of them a voice was saying,
"Someday these comics will be rare and valuable!"  (Hah--not if there
are that many mint-and-bagged copies lying around as "investments"!)

Dealers themselves aren't making any kind of "big money" off even the
Golden Age stuff they've got their hands on.  If they were, you
wouldn't hear about comic shops going under every day.  And personally
I can't feel sorry for them, after being told they expected me to fork
over $100 plus for Harbinger #1 not even a year after it was put on
the stands.  Gee, how come they want that much when every one of them
has two or three copies they drag to every show and take back home
with them?

Buy a comic if you want to read it.  It's mentality like the "buy for
a huge payback investment!" that means someone like me, who just wants
to read the comic, can't even get a copy of it.  Thanks for nothing.

OOTC: I am currently reading Babylon 5 and X-files.  Why is it that
TV/Movie adaptation comics have art that is even worse than the old
Gold Key stuff?  Both of these comics have art so bad I wouldn't even
put it in my catbox.  I only buy it for the stories.

......<*>    Excuse me, I have to recharge my flamethrower.

--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12
 * Origin: The Computer Room-Pickerington, Oh (614)861-8377  (1:226/110.0)

Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 38 of 423
 From : Todd Sullivan                       1:202/720.3     .cê 26 Hîÿ 95 16:08
 To   : David Cougle
 Subj : awesome epic
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Whilst falling into the sun on 26 Nov 95, David Cougle yelled to All:

 DC> Get off you lazy butts, go to your library, and check out either Nine
 DC> Princes in Amber or The Chronicles of Amber v.1.  The autho, Roger
 DC> Zelazny (who just died), has such a way with words that you never know
 DC> what will happen next and there is never a dull moment.

You're just now discovering that?  Wait'll you read Vol.2, and the next set that
involve Merlin.

Trumps Of Doom.
Blood Of Amber
Sign Of Chaos
Knight of Shadows

Todd Sullivan

... Smile, things could get worse.  And they will.

-*- ASTG 1.9

--- Spot 1.3a Unregistered
 * Origin: Todd's Spot in the Continuum (1:202/720.3)

Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 39 of 423
 From : Phill Ash                           1:275/160       .îí 27 Hîÿ 95 08:39
 To   : Beverley Cote
 Subj : Q HEADING FOR VOYAGER
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE 1.1+

 BC> Gerrit Graham also played the Tosk in an early DS9, and was Meat
 BC> in 'Phantom of the Paradise': music by Paul Williams (who also
 BC> starred), directed by Brian de Palma (I believe it was his first
 BC> film). One of my faves... :)

        Tosk was played by Scott MacDonald.


Your pal:  PhlAsh
... AMBLIN PRESS RELEASE:  The New Dr Who will be played by @N@.
---
 * The Korova Milkbar *
~~~ ReneWave v1.01 [NR]
--- GEcho 1.10+
 * Origin: * The Beast's Lair * (804)498-3070 * Va Beach VA * (1:275/160)

Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 40 of 423
 From : Ritchie Funk                        1:140/122       .îí 27 Hîÿ 95 07:48
 To   : Brandon Wolgast
 Subj : Nowhere Man
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: FastEcho 1.45 10246

-=> Quoting Brandon Wolgast to Ritchie Funk <=-

 RF>Did anyone see the most recent episode where he meets his father? Was
 RF>his father part of the conspiracy or is Tom just getting a little too
 RF>paranoid?

 BW> I don't think his father was part of it, not at all, that is to me why
 BW> they ended with showing the picture at the end. I may be wrong but I
 BW> don't think he was "in on it."

Your probably right. But with this show you never know... ;-)

                   <<< Greetings from TEROK NOR >>>

... Your not as smart as I think I am.
--- Blue Wave/RA v2.20 [NR]
 * Origin: The Edge:Your Gaming BBS 306-382-7049, 7039, 7038 (1:140/122)

Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 41 of 423
 From : Brion Lienhart                      1:213/700.2     .îí 27 Hîÿ 95 11:47
 To   : Mark David
 Subj : Re: Questions, But Are T
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On Thu Nov 23, Mark David said to Chris Ogniben:

CO>    It would suck to have a future with matter antimatter reactors.

 -MD>I don't think that that would be possible, though I say that with
 -MD>trepidation
 -MD>(Ruthorford said power from the atom was impossible; when in comes to
 -MD>the future, you'd best hedge your bets).

You need to get your hands of _Indistinguishable from Magic_ by Robert L.
Forward. He covers a lot of future tech subjects starting with antimatter, and
going on to black holes, space warps, time travel and all kinds of other stuff.
The only problem is that he stuck in some of his fairly medicore SF stories
between chapters that illustrate the points of his essays. As for producing
antimatter, he reccomends orbital plants using solar energy, it's almost free,
and once you get it made, you can ship it where ever you need concentrated
power.




--- QM v1.31
 * Origin: Ministry of Peace - Carson City, NV (1:213/700.2)

Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 42 of 423
 From : Brion Lienhart                      1:213/700.2     .îí 27 Hîÿ 95 11:59
 To   : Keith Stokes
 Subj : canadian stuff
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On Thu Nov 23, Keith Stokes said to Ruby Tuesday:

RT>has anybody come across any science fictin with "Canadian
RT>content" that's worthwhile?
 -KS>
 -KS>Do you mean SF written by Canadians or do you mean SF set in Canada?
 -KS>
 -KS>I've enjoyed quite a bit of the first, but haven't seen a great deal
 -KS>of the later.

How about "Strange Brew", that's Canadian SF isn't it?
*<(:-)
(canadian content toque smiley)



--- QM v1.31
 * Origin: Ministry of Peace - Carson City, NV (1:213/700.2)

Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 43 of 423
 From : Brion Lienhart                      1:213/700.2     .îí 27 Hîÿ 95 11:54
 To   : Nicolai Shapero
 Subj : Weber
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On Fri Nov 24, Nicolai Shapero said to Brion Lienhart:

 BL>Well, he is credited in the games Starfire and Starfire Imperium.

 -NS>Are those board games or computer games?

The first one is a tactical board game, the second is a strategic level
expansion of it. They were first published in about '81 or so, then revised and
reprinted 3 or 4 years ago. If you've read Weber's _Crusade_ and _Insurrection_
that's the setting & tech of the games. Most of the tech of the Honor Harrington
is similar as well, except for the interstellar travel they're darn near
identical. They are pretty good games, and Imperium is one of the best rule sets
for that level game that I know of. If games aren't on topic here, I'd be more
than willing to continue the discussion on RECFRP.




--- QM v1.31
 * Origin: Ministry of Peace - Carson City, NV (1:213/700.2)

Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 44 of 423
 From : Brion Lienhart                      1:213/700.2     .îí 27 Hîÿ 95 11:58
 To   : Star Hawk
 Subj : Weber
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On Thu Nov 23, Star Hawk said to Brion Lienhart:

  [> Brion Lienhart [> Well, he is credited in the games Starfire
  [> and Starfire Imperium. He also has a short in _Bolos 3:The
  [> [Whatever]_. I think he has a couple of stories in the Man-Kzin
  [> Wars books, but I can't remember which ones.

 -SH>     I meant "carrying his name on the cover".  It's hard to keep
 -SH>track of tales published in collections and 'zines.

Bolos 3 has his name on the cover, and a lot of bookstores have it shelved w/his
other books.




--- QM v1.31
 * Origin: Ministry of Peace - Carson City, NV (1:213/700.2)

Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 45 of 423
 From : Ml Sands                            1:132/130       .cê 26 Hîÿ 95 23:54
 To   : Bianca Wesslak
 Subj : Sorry for eavedropping ...
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
        Hello. I couldn't help but notice a recent "pro-nuclear" reply
to one of your posts. It emanated the same fanaticism that they were
accusing you of. I hope this isn't being intrusive, but here's some
possible ammunition. Actually, you might already know these things.
        ...  Von Neuman (spelling uncertain), was for many years the
US's most outspoken advocate of things nuclear, and was also quite
certain that there was no danger. Apparently, he liked being present
at nuclear tests. Alas, he died, from a sudden and rapid case of
bone cancer.
        ...  With the disbanding of the old Soviet Union, all sorts
of info is now available to documentary film makers. Forget Chernobyl;
there is a picturesque little part of the russian countryside where
their military used to dispose of high-level nuclear waste. In exposed
metal barrels, carefully dumped into lakes. You see, the barrels were
overheating. And so, they say, there is a beautiful stream flowing out
of a lake in the russian countryside. And if you spend the afternoon
there, you will die from a fatal dose of radiation poisoning.
        Actually, I don't enjoy saying these things. But to talk about
them is the lesser of two evils. Anyways, what are your thoughts on
other (happier) subjects?

--- GEcho 1.00
 * Origin:  VetLink #9, Nerrimack NH 603-424-4915 (1:132/130)

Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 46 of 423
 From : Ecarey                              1:101/230       .cê 26 Hîÿ 95 12:09
 To   : Brandon Wolgast
 Subj : NOWHERE MAN
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
BW>RF>Did anyone see the most recent episode where he meets his father? Was
BW>RF>his father part of the conspiracy or is Tom just getting a little too
BW>RF>paranoid?

BW>I don't think his father was part of it, not at all, that is to me why
BW>they ended with showing the picture at the end. I may be wrong but I
BW>don't think he was "in on it."

I think Tom's father was deeply confused as to why Tom was so
unwarrantedly paranoid and hostile.:) I agree, the shot of the picture
fallen behind the couch was a way of telling the viewer, though of
course not _Tom_, that his father was for real, and not part of the
conspiracy.

 * OLX 2.1 TD * Unable to locate Coffee -- Operator Halted!

--- FLAME v1.0
 * Origin: Withouta Net - Drop In Anytime! - 617/846-5416 (1:101/230)

Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 47 of 423
 From : Karmin St.jean                      1:321/309       .ÿò 24 Hîÿ 95 09:02
 To   : Marc Zingarelli
 Subj : Stan Putterman the Q
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 > Gary Graham who played Sikes played in another episode called Cold
 > Fire
 > dealing with Kess's psychokinetic powers and the caretakers
 > companion.


Not Gary Graham, Gerrit Graham. And there was no Sikes in TerrorVision! There
was Stan Putterman, the TV Repairman who wasn't named, the Putterman's daughter,
the son, the grandfather, a swinging couple who were greek in more ways than
one, Medusa, an alien named Plutar of the planet Pluton, the hungry beast, and
the daughter's boyfriend O.D. ("Irish boy?" -Stan Putterman).

--- FLAME v1.1
 * Origin: Final Approach BBS - Spfld, MA (413)783-5853 (1:321/309)

Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 48 of 423
 From : Steen Christensen                   2:238/57.3      .cê 26 Hîÿ 95 22:12
 To   : Meredith Billington
 Subj : books
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Hejsa Meredith!

09 Oct 95, sammensatte Meredith Billington til All:

 MB> What are your favorite Science Fiction/Fantasy books?

I bet you got a lot of response on this msg. but anyway here are some of my
favorite series/writers :

Star Trek      (all of it)
Star Warw      (All of it)
Terry Brooks
Larry Niven
Ben Bova       (All of his books)
James P. Hogan (many of his book are about time travel! very good)
Asimov         (Foundation serie)
Weis & Hickman
Julian May
Frederik Pohl

How about you? You have something interesting ?


Yours

Steen

--- GoldED 2.40
 * Origin: Black Fire Point  (2:238/57.3)

Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 49 of 423
 From : Steen Christensen                   2:238/57.3      .cê 26 Hîÿ 95 22:20
 To   : Brandon Wolgast
 Subj : Foundation series?
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Hejsa Brandon!

12 Nov 95, sammensatte Brandon Wolgast til All:

 BW> what order do they go in?  I thought "Foundation" was the first one but
 BW> there is also a "Prelude to Foundation" among others, and unlike
 BW> for instance the Dune books it doesn't tell anywhere that I can see on
 BW> the books what order to read them in. So if someone could tell me what
 BW> order the Foundation books go in I would really appreciate it. Thanks a
 BW> lot.


The first four book are :

Foundation
Foundation and Empire
Second Foundation
Foundation's Edge


But in the book "Robot and Foundation" he connects foundation and his robot
series.

So, just keep up the good work and read on ;-)


Yours

Steen

--- GoldED 2.40
 * Origin: Black Fire Point  (2:238/57.3)

Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 50 of 423
 From : Roger Schuering                     1:3825/21       .îí 27 Hîÿ 95 21:19
 To   : All
 Subj : Hello
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Is there anyone out there who can tell what this echo is all about...Hello
...Hello?

... Documentation - The worst part of programming.
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12



--- QScan/PCB v1.18b / 01-0597
 * Origin: Deacon Blue's   806-857-3501 (1:3825/21)

Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 51 of 423
 From : Earl Green                          1:3822/1        .òp 28 Hîÿ 95 01:04
 To   : All
 Subj : Seaquest 2032
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

SM>Seaquest 2032 has been cancealed. No reason known.
SM>Posilbly killed by the Nelsons. Recomnd kill the
SM>Nelson family. For crimes aginst the science
SM>fiction audieance.

  Damn that Ozzie and Harriet! <snicker>  I think that's the NIELSENS
  you're talking about. 8-]
       e  <-- Earl Green (earl.green@f1.n3822.z1.fidonet.org) 1:3822/1
---
 * SLMR 2.0 * "It is like being nibbled to death by...CATS!" - Londo

--- QScan/PCB v1.17b / 01-0162
 * Origin: Jackalope Junction 501-785-5381 Ft Smith AR (1:3822/1)

Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 52 of 423
 From : David Hilling                       1:262/32        .îí 27 Hîÿ 95 12:36
 To   : Keith Stokes
 Subj : Favorites
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 Quoting Keith Stokes to David Hilling Re:Favorites.

 KS> I just recently discovered Stasheff. So far, I've read two of his
 KS> books, A COMPANY OF STARS and a second one that's name escapes me.
 KS> Liked them both.
 KS> Do you recomend the Warlock novels?  Do you know if he ever continued
 KS> the Starship Troupers series that he started with A COMPANY OF STARS in
 KS> 1991. I have found no sequals :-(

I enjoyed the Warlock series immensely. Others I've talked to didn't much
like it. I guess it depends on your tolerance for really shaggy puns. In
particular, Warlock Rock has more bad jokes per page than anything this side
of Xanth. I loved it.  There has been at least one other book released in the
Starship Troopers series. It is We Open On Venus. Loved it. Keep in mind that
it's not any kind of deathless classic, but it beats watching St*r Tr*k
reruns. IMHO his best work is the Wizard in Rhyme series. (Jeez, doesn't
anybody write just ONE book anymore?) The hero finds himself in a universe
governed (more or less) by the laws of Medieval Catholicism. Heaven and Hell,
God and Sata, good and evil all have objective, tangible reality. Our
protaganist, of course, begins as a skeptic.
The series starts with Her Majesty's Wizard, and includes The Oathbound
Wizard, The Witch Doctor and The Secular Wizard. There is one more,
but it's not out in paperback yet so I haven't read it.

... A seminar on time travel will be held two weeks ago.
---
 À Blue Wave/DOS v2.21 [NR] À
--- Renegade v10-05 Exp
 * Origin: The Gallifrey BBS * 614-867-2812,,77 * Zoom 28.8k (1:262/32)

Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 53 of 423
 From : Jon Roth                            1:143/254       .òp 28 Hîÿ 95 13:23
 To   : Ritchie Funk
 Subj : Re: Nowhere Man
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Id prefer it if they wouldnt show us anything that Tom didnt see, it would be
much more mysterious not to be given the answers and having to work it out for
oneself.
        However, the ending to this weeks episode confused the hell out of me.
--- CNet/3
 * Origin: Gnome's Guest Room BBS - (408)554-6689 (1:143/254)

Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 54 of 423
 From : Jon Roth                            1:143/254       .òp 28 Hîÿ 95 13:27
 To   : All
 Subj : Re: canadian stuff
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
        Im not sure where Forever Knight is based.  Does anyone know if it is
Canadian or not?
--- CNet/3
 * Origin: Gnome's Guest Room BBS - (408)554-6689 (1:143/254)

Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 55 of 423
 From : Nancy Crockett                      1:170/600       .òp 28 Hîÿ 95 20:49
 To   : Steven Wesen
 Subj : red dwarf
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 SW> Yes they are working on Series 7 and 8 with 2 Christmas
 SW> Specials.

     My God, am I behind! My husband and I borrowed a friend's tapes once to
watch the series. I think we saw 4 years, although David thinks it might have
only been 3. We have some catching up to do! Can you tell me something about the
4th year that would help me remember if I've seen it or not? The last thing I
can remember is when they met themselves in the future and the past. I hope we
can find a way to catch up, we haven't seen that friend much in the last couple
of years, so I'm not even sure that he has the newer years.

... "Don't call him stupid!" Lt. Dan
--- FMail/386 1.02
 * Origin: Tulsa Chat BBS-Tulsa, Ok-(918) 234-1352 (1:170/600)

Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 56 of 423
 From : Nancy Crockett                      1:170/600       .òp 28 Hîÿ 95 20:54
 To   : Paul Goverts
 Subj : red dwarf
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
     Thanks for the info, Paul. I was just writing to Steven Wesen about how I
have some catching up to do. I have only seen the first 3 or 4 years. I sorta
thought that what they had on the sattelite was reruns, but I guess I should
have made more effort to tune in. Where have you been watching it?

... Readers of the lost .ARC
--- FMail/386 1.02
 * Origin: Tulsa Chat BBS-Tulsa, Ok-(918) 234-1352 (1:170/600)

Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 57 of 423
 From : Nancy Crockett                      1:170/600       .òp 28 Hîÿ 95 21:04
 To   : Robert Parson
 Subj : HIGHLANDER
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 RP> NANCY had this to say
 RP> NC> I have pre-recorded Euro-Versions

 RP> There's a different version going out to Europe?  What are
 RP> some of the major
 RP> differences?

     They have 4 extra minutes of footage in every episode. It is not stuff that
America WOULDN'T show or anything, it is just that we have more commercials.
(Lucky, aren't we?). It seems to me that a lot of the stuff cut out was better
development of Richie, which would hopefully made more people like him. My
husband and I hated him at first, then he gradually seemed to mature a little.
After he became immortal, he got even better. In the Highlander club, there is a
big following of Richie. Now that we like him, and have seen the old episodes
with extra footage, we see how nice he can be. The extra footage is also
probably of other stuff, too, but we missed a lot of the first year, so it is
hard for us to tell what is new. (I guess I could even be wrong about the Richie
scenes, since I missed some of those originally.) The second season I should be
able to tell more, I am expecting it in the mail anyday, I think they just
charged my VISA for them. We ordered them at the con in Denver.
     Both seasons also come with a lot of extra goodies, like shirts and other
merchandise. The first year came with a Behind the scenes tape and a blooper
tape, which is hilarious! The second year has a tape of "The Life and Times of
Duncan McLeod" with it. It focuses on the history of the world thru Duncans
eyes. Cool stuff!
     I take it you have seen everything up until now? I feel sorry for those
trying to catch up on USA, they are showing them so out of order.

... "Lt. Dan, this is my Jenny." Forrest Gump
--- FMail/386 1.02
 * Origin: Tulsa Chat BBS-Tulsa, Ok-(918) 234-1352 (1:170/600)

Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 58 of 423
 From : Nancy Crockett                      1:170/600       .òp 28 Hîÿ 95 22:42
 To   : Richard Hudson
 Subj : Highlander:  New Season
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 RH> Im a highlander fan. Let's talk. By the way who is your
 RH> favorite villan.

     That is a hard one. I have four years to choose from! Slan, from the first
episode, (played by "Bull" from Nightcourt) was a fun one. With the stories
developing to where immortals heal so well, I don't know why Slan was worried
about his face being messed up! I can only assume that was before they thought
about wounds healing. I thought that Kalas was quite devious and I twisted and
squirmed and every new hitch he threw in Duncans efforts to kill him. I'm not to
crazy about Kenny, but then I don't care for bratty kids. I liked the episode
with the irish female immortal that fought with Richie, but that is because of
her "talk" with Duncan out on the pier! I'll think some more on that, maybe one
more favorite will come to me.
     Did you like Tessa or Ann better?

... "His names Forrest." Jenny
--- FMail/386 1.02
 * Origin: Tulsa Chat BBS-Tulsa, Ok-(918) 234-1352 (1:170/600)

Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 59 of 423
 From : Nancy Crockett                      1:170/600       .òp 28 Hîÿ 95 22:47
 To   : The Raven
 Subj : Highlander
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 TR>      I know.  You sent me that message in the HIGHLANDER
 TR> echo.

 TR>      Jack Butler

     I didn't know I was in a Highlander echo. I just read about it from someone
else. I was going to look for it, it seems it found me. I didn't notice where
you are from. Are you in another state?

... "Who the HELL is that??" Bear Bryant
--- FMail/386 1.02
 * Origin: Tulsa Chat BBS-Tulsa, Ok-(918) 234-1352 (1:170/600)

Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 60 of 423
 From : Nancy Crockett                      1:170/600       .òp 28 Hîÿ 95 22:50
 To   : Richard Sarner
 Subj : Highlander
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 RS> out there. I do have a miniGathering tet. slated for
 RS> Jan-Feb to show off my Euros (mine! all mine! :)

     Good for you! We need to share all of the Highlander we can!

 RS> was great! Are you aware of the Fido Highlander echo? Ask
 RS> for it by name, it hails from Arkham Asylum. I just
 RS> recieved the second Highlander Store catalog and saw the
 RS> stuff we examined a month ago. Will you be attending
 RS> SyndiCon in Baltimore in May? Elizabeth Gracen and Arrian
 RS> are on the Invited list, but all the others from  the
 RS> Gathering will be there.

     I did not know about the Highlander echo, I will try to look for it. I have
never heard of Arkham Asylum. If you have any other info, please share it. I,
too, just received my catalog. I have tried not to drool too much. I am afraid
that Baltimore is out of my reach. We can't afford that plane tickets. We drove
to Denver, it took us 12 hours! Please fill me in on the con, I wish I could go.

... "I couldn't just let him lie there, all alone and scared." Forrest Gump
--- FMail/386 1.02
 * Origin: Tulsa Chat BBS-Tulsa, Ok-(918) 234-1352 (1:170/600)

Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 61 of 423
 From : Kevin Ahearn                        1:109/104       .òp 28 Hîÿ 95 18:26
 To   : Todd Sullivan
 Subj : awesome epic
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 TS> You're just now discovering that?  Wait'll you read
 TS> Vol.2, and the next set that involve Merlin.

 TS> Trumps Of Doom.
 TS> Blood Of Amber
 TS> Sign Of Chaos
 TS> Knight of Shadows

 TS> Todd Sullivan

Woops!  You forgot the last book in that series, _Prince of Chaos_

--Kevin


--- Maximus/2 3.00
 * Origin: ShanErin (1:109/104)

Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 62 of 423
 From : Myra I Fox                          1:123/10        .îí 27 Hîÿ 95 19:11
 To   : David Hilling
 Subj : Terry Pratchett
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

-=>Quoting David Hilling to Myra I Fox<=-

 MIF> No, but I just noticed that the SFBC has it this month.  Maybe I need
 MIF> to order myself an Xmas present <smile>.

 DH> Have you been naughty or nice? <leer>

A little of both <g>

 DH> This is a really charming little story and well worth curling up with
 DH> on a long winter evening. Usually, my tastes run more toward hard SF,
 DH> but Pratchett is quite the storyteller.

But now I can't find the silly order form <sigh>.  Maybe Jym hid it...
he thinks I spend way too much money on books  :-)




... "I LIKE TO THINK I AM A PICKER-UP OF UNCONSIDERED TRIFLES." - Death
--- RA/FD/FMail
 * Origin: The Electric Fox - Memphis,TN, U.S.A.  1-901-327-1008 (1:123/10)

Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 63 of 423
 From : Darre LuAllen                       1:3637/1        .òp 28 Hîÿ 95 15:04
 To   : David Hilling
 Subj : Favorites
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 On 11-26-95 David Hilling wrote to Darre Luallen...

 DL> Anyway, I'd love to hear your opinion on various Heinlein (or others
 DL> if I have  read them or not) sories.  By the way, what did you think of
 DL> Puppet Masters?

 DH> Loved the book. I was somewhat less impressed with the movie at first.
 DH> Upon further reflection and a couple more viewings, I mellowed somewhat.
 DH> After all, people will only sit still for so long at a time. Besides, if
 DH> they had stuck too close to the book, this would have earned them the
 DH> dreaded NC-17 rating for excessive nudity.

 The same can be said of many of his works.  I cannot see a book like _I Will
 Fear No Evil_ being made in Hollywood (unless Demi Moore decided to do
 it <ha>).  What I've read in _Time Enough for Love_ would also have a
 similar problem.  As RAH moved away from his "Juveniles", he became quite
 the randy little bugger.

 DH> <g> My favorite thing about RAH is that he
 DH> didn't write very much crap. (O.K. I Will Fear No Evil was pretty lame.
 DH> It could have been a lot better. If you're interested in why it wasn't,
 DH> see Grumbles From the Grave.)

 I liked _... No Evil_. Of course, I had just gotten back from a war when I
 read it.  I did read parts of _Grumbles..._, but I can't remember what you
 are referring to.  I guess I'll have to unearth it.  As far as his writing
 crap, I'll agree.  Of course, when you are writing to support yourself, you
 don't have that luxury (unless your last name is a royal title ;)} ).

 DH> I firmly believe that his "Requiem" is the yardstick by
 DH> which all short SF stories (Hell, ALL short stories) should be
 DH> measured.

 I liked "Requiem" as well, but I don't think that it was my fav.  Pardon
 my failing memory, but the title of the one I loved was "Green Hills of
 Earth" or something like that.  The story of the blind minstrel returning
 to earth.  As I stated before, it has been many years since I have had
 time to read RAH. I loved all of Heinlein X6 (many of which I found mildly
 disturbing) and "M.'s Children."  However, I'd say that the measure of the
 short story has got to be E.A. Poe.  Granted, he didn't do much SF, but his
 stories were always well paced.  On the same token, H.P. Lovecraft fits this
 bill as well.  However, Heinlein rates in the top five of all time in my book.

 Good pacing and good content.  He also had a great track record.

 DH> Stasheff can be a little tedious, and a couple of the books in the
 DH> Warlock series (notably Warlock Rock) are enough to embarrass even Piers
 DH> Anthony. <g,r,d>

 No need to run.  Got to admit, Anthony is not my cup of tea either.  I have
 heard that his stories are good.  I'll have to take their word for it.
 Tried to get through one of his books once.  Way too much detail to
 assimilate.  Of course, that was a long time ago.  Perhaps if I try again...
 Strangely enough, I like Dune (although it puts Anthony to shame for
 level of detail).  I can't explain this one.  I guess I got into the
 political maneuvering in the story.

 DH> ... Choking on *another* Xanth novel?  Apply the Heinlein Maneuver!

Consider this tag stolen. <g> with a gleam


                                        Darre LuAllen
                                        Confused writer and
                                        SF Fan
                                        Honorary Member of SMOG

___
 * OFFLINE 1.56 * The more corrupt the state, the more numerous the laws.


--- Maximus/2 3.00
 * Origin: Cumberland BBS TN 615/526-3347 V34 (1:3637/1)

Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 64 of 423
 From : Darre LuAllen                       1:3637/1        .òp 28 Hîÿ 95 15:23
 To   : Paul Goverts
 Subj : Favorites
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Having seen the suggestions from David (_The Moon is a Harsh Mistress_,
etc.) here are a few others:

        The Past Through Tomorrow (almost required reading)
        Time Enough For Love (same)
        Starship Troopers (inspiration for Aliens?, et al)
        Puppet Masters (especially if you have a historical
                        interest in the Fifties "Commie" Hysteria)

        Grumbles From the Grave
                - although this is a collection of his letters,
                  reading this book will help you understand RAH


I do agree that you should wait on reading _Number of the Beast_ until
you have read some more of RAH's works, simply because off all the in jokes
Heinlein had with his readers.  This one is a fun little book, which has a
premise most SF fans have considered at one time or other.

As far as _Stranger ..._ goes, remember that this is the book that caused
RAH to withdraw from Fandom.  He wrote it to pay the bills and found that
people wanted him to be some kind of guru.  Of course, this was during the
time when a cult might form around a piece of litter thrown from a car in
California.


                                        Just my opinion,
                                        Darre LuAllen
                                        Confused Writer and
                                        Reality Spot Checker
                                        "Wasn't it raining?"


___
 * OFFLINE 1.56 * "So many fishies left in the sea, So many fishies - but no-one
for me..."

--- Maximus/2 3.00
 * Origin: Cumberland BBS TN 615/526-3347 V34 (1:3637/1)

Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 65 of 423
 From : Nicolai Shapero                     1:102/524       .òp 28 Hîÿ 95 23:29
 To   : Ml Sands
 Subj : Sorry for eavedropping ...
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Nov 26 23:54>, Ml Sands (1:132/130) wrote to Bianca Wesslak:

 MS>        Hello. I couldn't help but notice a recent "pro-nuclear"
 MS>reply
 MS>to one of your posts. It emanated the same fanaticism that they
 MS>were
 MS>accusing you of. I hope this isn't being intrusive, but here's
 MS>some
 MS>possible ammunition. Actually, you might already know these
 MS>things.

Every year, it has been estimated that 50,000 people die in the United States as
a direct result of our reliance on fossil fuels -- these deaths are attributed
to pollution, NOT to mining or transporting the fossil fuels.

Everything has a risk attached -- you want electric power, you have to pay.  In
money, and (sadly) in lives.  Of course, without power, you don't get to raise
as much food, and people die a different way...

-- Nicolai Shapero, the Mad Russian Sysop of StormGate Aerie

--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 66 of 423
 From : Nicolai Shapero                     1:102/524       .òp 28 Hîÿ 95 23:31
 To   : Roger Schuering
 Subj : Hello
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Nov 27 21:19>, Roger Schuering (1:3825/21@fidonet.org) wrote to All:

 RS>Is there anyone out there who can tell what this echo is all
 RS>about...Hello
 RS>...Hello?

What follows is an abbreviated version of the rules for SFFAN:

Discussions of SF Fandom, Trek, Media, Who, Anime, and any literary
SF topic are "in bounds".  Related technical discussions are also
allowed, but if they go too far afield, ye moderator reserves the
right to shut down the topic at any time without further warning.
Fantasy, by the by, is on topic.  Keep the comments clean and above
the belt -- personal attacks are unacceptable (remember though, that
to attack an idea is NOT the same as attacking the holder of that
idea).

Commercial messages (anything that solicits money) are OFF TOPIC.

The moderator reserves the right to add new rules as the situation
demands.

Violators of rules may be warned in netmail, will be warned in the
echo, and are subject to suspension of SFFAN echomail priviledges
if they refuse to comply with the echo rules.  Sysops who refuse to
police their users (or themselves) on this echo are subject to
having their feeds cut without warning -- yes, I do hold sysops to
a higher standard.  A list of users and sysops on probation and
suspension is included in the detailed rules, which are posted
at roughly one month intervals.

The word of the moderator is the word of god.  Once the edict is
issued, please take any further comments and/or discussions to netmail.
This is not a democracy.  In the event of my disappearance of early
demise, my wife Kay Shapero will take my place.  If both of us
disappear without having time to appoint an heir to the echo, you
will likely have to fight it out with the FidoNet bureaucracy...

-- Nicolai Shapero, Moderator of SFFAN



--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 67 of 423
 From : Anne Hardcastle                     1:393/7         .òp 28 Hîÿ 95 18:33
 To   : All
 Subj : Re: Gibson
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
I have listened to an abridged version of virtual light on tape and an
unabridged version of Neuromancer on tape read by the author.  Neuromancer was
just fabulous.  I was constantly in shock at his ability to make technology into
poetry and to blend the bits and pieces of ultra-urban culture with the best of
international issues.  The interesting thing to me, is how PLAUSIBLE these
novels seem.  I am very impressed by his work.

I think he was the one who first coined the term cyberspace, am I right?
--- CNet/3
 * Origin: The Bard's Tavern Denton, TX (817)243-5110 USR 28.8   (1:393/7)

Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 68 of 423
 From : Dkimmel                             1:101/230       .îí 27 Hîÿ 95 17:12
 To   : Michael Harper
 Subj : HITLER'S BRAIN
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
MH> > Just in case there are any lurkers who don't get that you're
MH> > simply
MH> > ragging on the great director, Stanely Kubrick had NOTHING to
MH> > do with
MH> > the shlocker "They Saved Hitler's Brain."

MH>My source is somewhat apocryphal, but I trust him about as much as I trust
MH>anybody... Almost every director/actor/whatever has a film or two in their p
MH>that's so godawful they'll disavow it in a heartbeat; Kubrick is no differen

No, Stanley Kubrick had NOTHING to do with the movie.

MH>And don't idolize the twit just because he did one or two great films. Kubri
MH>refuses to own up to his stupidities, unlike Huston and Welles, who made a f
MH>clinkers and admitted it. Kubrick has always thought his sh*t didn't stink,
MH>he's always been wrong. His sort of turgid self-aggrandizement annoys the he
MH>out of me. People who think they can do no wrong always do. Only Allah can
MH>create perfection; for mortal man to think he can do so is a mortal sin.

Your unreasoning hatred of Stanley Kubrick is interesting but since it
largely consists of attributing other people's movies -- and motives --
to him, there's really little necessary to say in response.


 * SLMR 2.1a * Don't mind him.  He's from Barcelona.

--- FLAME v1.0
 * Origin: Withouta Net - Drop In Anytime! - 617/846-5416 (1:101/230)

Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 69 of 423
 From : ROBERT LIDGREN                      1:134/10        .òp 28 Hîÿ 95 21:10
 To   : ML SANDS
 Subj : nuclear
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Science fiction has always been able to see not only the benefits of
nuclear energy but also the potential horrors associated with it.  Of
course, I speak of "nuclear fission."  France currently produces over
70% or her electricity from nuclear power plants.

However, this is no balm because any French reactor could potentially
have a serious accident.  If things are human made they are not perfect
no matter how many saftey features are built in.

On the other hand, "nuclear fusion" does hold HUGE promise.  The
by-products--> water vapor.  It's unlikely YOU'LL ever see a car running
down the street power by a fusion reactor but for electricity generation
I think it is a wonderful possibility.  True, the technical specs are
awsome and risks do abound but, at least, it's not a "dirty" kind of
reactor like Chernobyl.

I tend to look even more seriously at solar power, wind power and tidal
power as nifty alternatives too.  Giant HYDRO projects simply won't fill
the bill down the line.
--- PCBoard 15.2
 * Origin: 32 lines 40 Gig BBS, Realtime InterNet SLIP (403)299-9900 (1:134/10)

Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 70 of 423
 From : Richard Hudson                      1:141/450       .îí 27 Hîÿ 95 12:19
 To   : Darre Luallen
 Subj : Re: Vir Cotto
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
===========================================================================
 BBS: The Pleasure Palace BBS
Date: 11-22-95 (15:55)             Number: 1884
From: DARRE LUALLEN                Refer#: 1872
  To: DAVID REFFITT                 Recvd: NO
Subj: Re: Vir Cotto                  Conf: (9) Sffan
___------------------------------------------------------------------------

DL> My appologies for putting my snout into this discussion, but here I go...

DL> On 11-19-95 David Reffitt wrote to Jeff Hancock...

DL> DR> Very interesting point. So, they would not consider givinng the job to
DL> DR> Vir?

DL>The thing to remember is that Vir is a lowly attache and Londo is an
DL>Ambassador.  If Londo were to die before the show finished, then someone
DL>more capable (i.e., someone with a higher social standing) would receive the
DL>job.  In fact, the Centarum does not even want Vir to be Londo's assistant.
DL>In one episode (I forget which one), they sent a replacement.  But Londo
DL>pulled strings and got Vir his job back (although we never saw this
DL>replacement).

DL>Also to consider, the Centarum are more corrupt than most of the gov'ts
DL>currently on Earth (you decide).  So, factors like Bribery and Blackmail
DL>would come into play.  As Vir considers himself above such things (or below
DL>as the Centari would consider him), he would not stand a chance for the job.

DL>Of course, this is all a moot point since Vir would hop the next Flyer to
DL>Minbar if he thought that the Centarum was trying to give him the job.

The funny thing is that Vir IS on the next flyer to Minbar, or was if
you saw this weeks episode.

DL>As always, this is my humble opinion, based on what I read into the show and
DL>Earther politics and societies.

DL>                                        Trying to achieve oneness with
DL>                                        myself (with lots of Brevara)
DL>                                          - Darre LuAllen

DL>"So many fishies left in the sea, So many fishies - but no-one for me..."

DL>___
DL> * OFFLINE 1.56 * Duck Dodgers in the Twenty Fourth and a
DL>Half Century!!!

DL>--- Maximus/2 3.00
DL> * Origin: Cumberland BBS TN 615/526-3347 V34 (1:3637/1)

___
 * SLMR 2.0 * Next! Serena vs C-ko in Anime Combat for the Jaguar/7800!

--- Maximus 3.00
 * Origin: The Pleasure Palace BBS (1:141/450)

Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 71 of 423
 From : David Hilling                       1:262/32        .òp 28 Hîÿ 95 22:18
 To   : Keith Stokes
 Subj : Casting Pern
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
::To: Todd Sullivan  From: Keith Stokes  Subj: Casting Pern  ::
----------------------@N

 KS> * In a message originally to Todd Sullivan, David Hilling said:

 TS> I have no idea; I'd like to see it happen, but McCaffery's lawyers are
 TS> a nasty bunch; ask why Brigadoon isn't called PernNet any more.
 KS>
 KS> That isn't nasty. That is just protecting the rights of Ms McCaffrey
 KS> and her estate.  If those rights aren't protected from realatively
 KS> innocent infringments, they are lost for more commercial purposes as
 KS> well.
 KS> Keith

Wait just a fire-breathin' minute there partner. Look a liitle closer and
you'll see that Todd said that, not me. I love Anne  McCaffrey unreservedly.
My only beef is that I've coughed up $30.00 for "one last Pern book" just
about once too often. I would love to see a movie (or six) set on Pern.
BTW, how do you feel about David Crosby as Robinton? O.K., then, how about
Dennis Hopper?

... Dragons are cuddly flamethrowers.
---
 À Blue Wave/DOS v2.21 [NR] À
--- Renegade v10-05 Exp
 * Origin: The Gallifrey BBS * 614-867-2812,,77 * Zoom 28.8k (1:262/32)

Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 72 of 423
 From : David Hilling                       1:262/32        .òp 28 Hîÿ 95 22:18
 To   : Barton Paul Levenson
 Subj : Favorites
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
::To: David Hilling  From: Barton Paul Levenson  Subj: Favorites  ::
----------------------@N

 BPL> I like some of Heinlein's work (generally, the juveniles and
 BPL> _Friday_) while disliking the rest (any of the
 BPL> up-with-freedom-space-and-incest late novels).

Well, to each his own. He did have a bit of a tendency to climb his soapbox
frequently in his last few years. On the other hand, few SF authors (or any
other variety) have had as much to say. I am in complete agreement with him
on the importance of space exploration. Like Mr. Heinlein, had it not been
for medical technology developed by and for the space program, my days on
Time Line 3 would have been greatly shortened. Most of you who weren't
around during the glory days of NASA just can't understand the sense of
excitement and wonder that accompanied each new launch. I remember following
Alan Shepard's Mercury flight on the radio, as we didn't have a TV yet. And
I will never forget being allowed to stay up way past my bedtime to watch
the moon landing (with commentary by Arthur C. Clarke and RAH).

As to up-with-freedom, it's like jazz. If you have to ask, you'll never
know. Great Ghu, man, read your newspaper! For the last fifteen years,
we've had fascist idiots calling themselves conservatives (many of whom
can't spell `conservative', much less define it, much, much less be it)
who seem determined to defacate on the Constitution and wipe themselves
on the Bill of Rights.

I'm a little less enthusiastic about incest, but this may be because my
sister's kind of ugly....


... You can have Peace. OR You can have Freedom.
---
 À Blue Wave/DOS v2.21 [NR] À
--- Renegade v10-05 Exp
 * Origin: The Gallifrey BBS * 614-867-2812,,77 * Zoom 28.8k (1:262/32)

Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 73 of 423
 From : Todd Sullivan                       1:202/720.3     .òp 28 Hîÿ 95 09:17
 To   : Daniel Nystrom
 Subj : Gibson
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Whilst falling into the sun on 26 Nov 95, Daniel Nystrom yelled to All:

 DN> Hi!

 DN> Someone want to chat about William Gibson's books?

 DN> I've just reached the end of MONA LISA Overddrive...

 DN> But I have already read Neuromancer, Virtual Light!

You missed "Count Zero" and "Burning Chrome".  Check them out.


Todd Sullivan

... If you can read this, my cloaking device is on the fritz.

-*- ASTG 1.9

--- Spot 1.3a Unregistered
 * Origin: Todd's Spot in the Continuum (1:202/720.3)

Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 74 of 423
 From : Todd Sullivan                       1:202/720.3     .òp 28 Hîÿ 95 09:21
 To   : Keith Stokes
 Subj : Casting Pern
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Whilst falling into the sun on 26 Nov 95, Keith Stokes yelled to me:

 TS>> I have no idea; I'd like to see it happen, but McCaffery's lawyers are
 TS>> a nasty bunch; ask why Brigadoon isn't called PernNet any more.
 KS>
 KS> That isn't nasty. That is just protecting the rights of Ms McCaffrey
 KS> and her estate.  If those rights aren't protected from realatively
 KS> innocent infringments, they are lost for more commercial purposes as
 KS> well.

Call it what you like, but there's still a point passed called "going too far
for insufficient reason".  If the fans are going to be treated in this manner
(and PernNet's creators were), they'll stop being fans, the money stops coming
in; and just where will Ms McCaffery's estate and lawyers be when that happens?
<sarcasm most definitely intended>

I'm done, Nicolai; don't bother.

Todd Sullivan

... "Come along, my little booboochitos." --Opus

-*- ASTG 1.9

--- Spot 1.3a Unregistered
 * Origin: Todd's Spot in the Continuum (1:202/720.3)

Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 75 of 423
 From : Chris Ogniben                       1:2604/568      .òp 28 Hîÿ 95 10:13
 To   : Tommy Kellerman
 Subj : Nuclear space drives
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

   There are no wormholes in real space.  There are Black Holes, but,
even those would tear a ship apart, since nothing can go through a
black hole.  So, there probably won't be inter stellar travel.


--- WM v3.11/93-0947
 * Origin: Waterside BBS - NJ - (201) 641-5375 28.8k  (1:2604/568)

Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 76 of 423
 From : Chris Carter                        1:105/290.23    .pä 29 Hîÿ 95 07:23
 To   : The Raven
 Subj : B5 -- Coincidence?
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On (26 Nov 95) The Raven wrote to Chris Carter...

 CC> I do admit that there is no ready way to prove that he
 CC> *didn't* lift stuff, but I've been given little reason not to
 CC> believe JMS when he claims not to have been exposed to
 CC> something.

 TR> I know I am going to get crunched for even thinking this,

No, I'm not in the crunching mood.  (Jaw... hurts.  Can... eat...
nothing but... pasta.) :)

 TR> but life can't exist in a vacuum.  Every writer on the planet
 TR> knows that you can't help but be exposed to things, and you
 TR> *always* use what you are exposed to for inspiration, even
 TR> when you don't know that you are doing it.

Oh sure.  I won't deign to disagree with this.  But I think that
the notion of 'lifting' from another source implies a conscious
intent to do so.  I don't believe that JMS has done this.

As for inspiration, there are a few ways to look a that as well.
JMS' exposure to anime is at this point, entirely unknown, aside
from the comments he's made.  I would hesitate to say that anime has
had an influence on JMS' writing of B5 if the only anime he has
actually seen is 'Sailor Moon.'  (I have a rough time with the
imagery of Sheridan fighting the Shadows by yelling things like,
"Moon Scepter Elimination!")  On the other hand, if he's been
exposed indirectly to anime by seeing a work that really did lift
heavily from one or more of the serial programs that have been
discussed here earlier, that introduces the possibility of
second-hand (or potentially third or fourth-hand, etc.) lifting.

At any rate, while your point is well taken, I still don't think
that JMS has consciously lifted from anime.  As for unconsciously
using elements present in anime to write his story, this is
certainly possible, though I'm still more tempted to go with the
notion of parallel development.  One's exposure to something can be
entirely nil, and you can still get production of a work remarkably
similar to that original something.

Chris - carter@teleport.com


... "Blast 'em all, and let the archaeologists sort 'em out!"

--- PPoint 1.98
 * Origin: Grid Epsilon Coords. 105x290x23 (1:105/290.23)

Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 77 of 423
 From : David Cougle                        1:390/2         .pä 29 Hîÿ 95 19:31
 To   : Todd Sullivan
 Subj : awesome epic
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
I read that, I am know on trumps of doom.  I don't like merlin being the
narrator as much as Corwin.


--- Maximus 2.01wb
 * Origin: The Fire Scene BBS-HST-(504)641-4789 (1:390/2)

Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 78 of 423
 From : Mark Jones                          1:105/302.47    .cê 26 Hîÿ 95 13:12
 To   : The Raven
 Subj : Krypton
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On (25 Nov 95) The Raven wrote to Chris Ogniben...

 CO> If your a comic reader, than a collector.. You are missing out on
 CO> a great personal buisness or hobby. I mean, do you realize how
 CO> much money you can make by collecting comics, and you still can
 CO> read them.. But, you make a big profit later in life with them.

 TR>      To quote myself:  "Art is wasted on those who have no souls."
 TR>
 TR> It is highly unlikely that you will make any money at all from
 TR> comic books, as very few of them have any lasting value. And I
 TR> hope like hell you aren't planning on making money off of those
 TR> pieces of toilet paper which have the word "Image" printed on
 TR> them..

   That's for sure.  I collected comics for over ten years.  I didn't
intend to collect them, I only bought them to read.  But I'm
obsessively careful about *all* my reading matter, hardbacks,
paperbacks and comics.  So the collection grew to fill a couple of
trunks.
   When I eventually liquidated the collection, I got back far less
than I'd paid for them.  (This is despite have a very long run of
X-Men titles in it, when X-Men were practically printed on gold leaf.)
   Sure, it was nice to get a few hundred dollars back for something I
no longer wanted...but it was hardly a profit-making venture.

   ...and what's this about SME's?


--- PPoint 1.78
 * Origin: Folcroft Sanitarium (hsmith@cure.com) (1:105/302.47)

Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 79 of 423
 From : Mark Jones                          1:105/302.47    .îí 27 Hîÿ 95 23:23
 To   : Shawn Merrow
 Subj : Seaquest 2032
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On (24 Nov 95) Shawn Merrow wrote to All...

 SM> ** News Flash **
 SM> Seaquest 2032 has been cancealed. No reason known.
 SM> Posilbly killed by the Nelsons. Recomnd kill the
 SM> Nelson family. For crimes aginst the science
 SM> fiction audieance.

Nelson Family (Ozzie, Harriet, Rick and Princess) should be awarded
the Congressional Medal of Honor for performing above and beyond the
call of duty!

All heil Ozzie!  All heil Harriet!  All heil Rick and Princess!

We, who abhor SeaQuest in all its incarnations, salute you!


--- PPoint 1.78
 * Origin: Folcroft Sanitarium (hsmith@cure.com) (1:105/302.47)

Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 80 of 423
 From : Mark Jones                          1:105/302.47    .òp 28 Hîÿ 95 18:56
 To   : The Raven
 Subj : B5 -- Coincidence?
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On (26 Nov 95) The Raven wrote to Chris Carter...

 TR>      I know I am going to get crunched for even thinking this, but
 TR> life can't exist in a vacuum. Every writer on the planet knows
 TR> that you can't help but be exposed to things, and you *always*
 TR> use what you are exposed to for inspiration, even when you don't
 TR> know that you are doing it.

   This true, but I think being passively exposed to the existence of
other works of fiction is different from actively filing the serial
numbers off and using them yourself (chortling evilly all the while,
of course...).

 TR>  KM> but the Earth Cruiser from the first season episode when that
 TR>  KM> old Minbari went down to the planet and the hostile aliens
 TR>  KM> came to try and claim it looked like it could have come right
 TR>  KM> out of Blazers, gun turrets and all.
 TR>
 TR>      I always thought it looked like a submarine...

   That's what it looked like to me, too.  (And I still think it was a
bad design for a space-going warship....)


--- PPoint 1.78
 * Origin: Folcroft Sanitarium (hsmith@cure.com) (1:105/302.47)

Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 81 of 423
 From : Mark Jones                          1:105/302.47    .òp 28 Hîÿ 95 19:02
 To   : Ml Sands
 Subj : Sorry for eavedropping ...
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On (26 Nov 95) Ml Sands wrote to Bianca Wesslak...

 MS>         ...  Von Neuman (spelling uncertain), was for many years the
 MS> US's most outspoken advocate of things nuclear, and was also quite
 MS> certain that there was no danger. Apparently, he liked being present
 MS> at nuclear tests. Alas, he died, from a sudden and rapid case of
 MS> bone cancer.

   Yeah, and?  So what's your point?

   In case it hasn't crossed your mind, nuclear *weapons* are entirely
different from nuclear *power plants*.  One of these (I'll let you
figure out which) is designed to purposely spill unimaginable amounts
of heat, light and radiation across vast stretches of landscape,
destroying buildings, vehicles, plants, animals and people.  Some have
been specially designed to produce *extra* radiation in order to kill
people faster and reduce the damage to the landscape, so that its
owners can more quickly move in to mop up the resistance.
   The *other* nuclear technology is designed to be as safe and
reliable as humanly possible.  And to generate far less pollution
(while generating far more power) than any other form of energy
available--including solar energy.  The total number of people killed
or injured by this technology is dwarfed by the numbers who've died
directly or indirectly as a result of the use of coal, oil, gasoline,
kerosene, wood and other fuels.
   Can you tell me which one is which?

   Can you tell me how many coal miners have died to save you from the
evils of nuclear energy?  How many oil rig workers?  How many tanker
truck drivers?


--- PPoint 1.78
 * Origin: Folcroft Sanitarium (hsmith@cure.com) (1:105/302.47)

Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 82 of 423
 From : The Raven                           1:363/309       .pä 29 Hîÿ 95 23:00
 To   : Marc Zingarelli
 Subj : Q HEADING FOR VOYAGER
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 MZ> I think our beloved Highlander Guru is slipping and confusing Gerrit
 MZ> Graham  with Gary Graham.  Both are in voyager this season.

     Mea culpa.

     Jack Butler



... In Hollywood, a marriage is a success if it outlasts milk.
--- Blue Wave/RA v2.20 [NR]
 * Origin: Forethought BBS -=- Orlando, FL -=- 407-679-6561 (1:363/309)

Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 83 of 423
 From : The Raven                           1:363/309       .pä 29 Hîÿ 95 23:00
 To   : Night Breed
 Subj : Quickening effects
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 NB> Could you tell me what he's planning on doing now? Because I am legally
 NB> blind myself & have greatly enjoyed his work. I wish I could find an
 NB> address for him as I'd like to write & tell him so.

     According to the interview, he's going to keep working as long as
possible, which could be quite a while.  Actor Dana Eclar slowly went blind
and yet still appeared regularly in MacGyver (they even worked the fact that
he was going blind into the storyline of the series).  I've seen him in a
bunch of stuff since.
     As for an address, I'll see what I can find out.  I'm not sure which
agency has his contract.


 NB> Why can't I find any other roles for Adrian? Has he had any
 NB> other roles, where? I collect autographed photos & would like to
 NB> add his but so far can find no address to write to.

     Adrian Paul was in the short-lived "War of the World" series, the
film "Love Potion #9", and has done some soap opera work.

     Jack Butler



... "Where there's a will there's a won't." -+ Ambrose Bierce
--- Blue Wave/RA v2.20 [NR]
 * Origin: Forethought BBS -=- Orlando, FL -=- 407-679-6561 (1:363/309)

Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 84 of 423
 From : The Raven                           1:363/309       .pä 29 Hîÿ 95 23:00
 To   : All
 Subj : Immortals List  1
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
     "From the Dawn of Time we came, moving silently down through the
centuries, leading many secret lives, struggling to reach the time of The
Gathering, when the few who remain will battle to the last.  No one
has known we were among you..."
     "Until now."
                                - Juan Sanchez Villa-Lobos Ramirez


     This is a list of Immortals from Highlander.  Information in this list
is taken from the first and third films, the television series, and (since
the information given in it is official) the trading card game.  I update
this list on a weekly basis after every new episode (and sometimes *during*
every new episode).
     No characters from that abortion of a film "Highlander 2" will ever find
a place on this list with the exception of Connor MacLeod and Ramirez, as I
no longer acknowledge the existance of said film.  No characters from that
abortion of a cartoon on USA will ever appear, either, mainly because I think
it sucks.
     This list is current up to "Chivalry".
     Some quick notes about the list:
     1.  The Immortals are listed in alphabetical order.
     2.  If the word "Unknown" appears in an entry, that means that either
the information has never been revealed or that I haven't been able to find
out about the info in question.  (And anyone who has missing info may feel
free to send it to me, with my thanks.)
     3.  The ages listed for the immortals are, in most cases, estimates
given from "flashback" appearances and dialog from the various episodes.
Where exact ages have been shown, I list those.
     4.  "Mentors" and "Students" covers any Immortal teaching any other
Immortal any subject, or otherwise taking a guiding hand in the other
Immortal's life.
     5.  "Other Appearances" does *not* list "fast flashback" appearances
(such as the pictured found in the Watchers database from "Finale"), but does
include "story flashbacks".  I am missing some information on some of the
Immortals (namely Richie Ryan and Darius), so some of these entries may be
missing info.
     6.  "Quickenings" only refers to those which have been revealed in the
series through dialog or direct portrayal.
     7.  The "Notes" section is a shorthanded way to help people recognize
which Immortal is which.  Some of these are more wordy than others, and for
this I apologize.  Personal preference.
     8.  There are occasions in which information on my list openly and
readily conflicts with the list constructed by Brian Haden.  This is not
meant to imply that Brian's list is wrong, or that my list is right, but
rather than his source information is different than mine.


Amanda
Actor:  Elizabeth Gracen         Age:  1165
Status:  Alive
Mentors:  Rebecca Horne
Students:  Kenny, Michelle Webster
First Appearance:  "The Lady And The Tiger"
Other Appearances:  "The Return of Amanda", "Legacy", "The Cross of St.
    Anthony", "Rite of Passage", "Finale, Part 1", "Finale, Part 2", "Double
    Eagle", "Reunion", "The Colonel"
Quickenings:  Zachary Blaine
Notes:  Former jewel thief and circus acrobat.  Former partner of Zachary
   Blaine.  Lover of Duncan MacLeod.  Knows both who Methos is and who the
   Watchers are.


Ballin, Andrew
Actor:  Tom Butler                Age:  Unknown
Status:  Deceased                 Beheaded By:  Duncan MacLeod
Mentors:  Unknown
Students:  Unknown
First Appearance:  "Eyewitness"
Other Appearances:  None
Quickenings:  Unknown
Notes:  High ranking police officer who murdered his former lover when she
   discovered his Immortality.


Bellian, Everett
Actor:  Peter Guiness            Age:  Unknown
Status:  Alive
Mentors:  Unknown
Students:  Unknown
First Appearance:  "Nowhere to Run"
Other Appearances:  None
Quickenings:  Unknown
Notes:  French army Colonel who saught revenge after his adopted daughter
   was raped.


Blaine, Zachary
Actor:  Jason Isaacs             Age:  100+
Status:  Deceased                Beheaded By:  Amanda
Mentors:  Unknown
Students:  Unknown
First Appearance:  "The Lady And The Tiger"
Other Appearances:  None
Quickenings:  Unknown
Notes:  Former partner of Amanda.  Carried a pistol to insure his victory
   over other Immortals.  Amanda broke the "one on one" rule to kill him.


Bouchet, Pierre
Actor:  Louis Bertignac          Age:  Unknown
Status:  Deceased                Beheaded By:  Guillotine
Mentors:  Unknown
Students:  Unknown
First Appearance:  "Highlander:  The Final Dimension" (Film)
Other Appearances:  None
Quickenings:  Unknown
Notes:  Friend of Connor MacLeod's who gave himself up to the guillotine in
   Connor's stead during the French revolution.


Brody, Frank
Actor:  Alf Humphreys            Age:  Unknown
Status:  Deceased                Beheaded By:  Kenny
Mentors:  Unknown
Students:  Kenny
First Appearance:  "The Lamb"
Other Appearances:  None
Quickenings:  Unknown
Note:  Killed by Kenny while teaching him how to fly-fish.


Browning, Charles
Actor:  Godfrey James            Age:  Unknown
Status:  Deceased                Beheaded By:  Duncan MacLeod
Mentors:  Unknown
Students:  Unknown
First Appearance:  "Counterfeit, Part 2"
Other Appearances:  None
Quickenings:  Unknown
Notes:  Old man who saved Duncan from the headsman, only to try to take
   Duncan's head while Duncan was passed out drunk.


Cage
Actor:  Richard Lynch            Age:  105+
Status:  Alive
Mentors:  Unknown
Students:  Unknown
First Appearance:  "Blind Faith"
Other Appearances:  None
Quickenings:  Unknown
Notes:  Former foe of Duncan's who had a religious conversion and now
   disavows all violence.  Lead a cult.


Cahill, Alfred
Actor:  Martin Kemp              Age:  37
Status:  Deceased                Beheaded By:  Duncan MacLeod
Mentors:  Unknown
Students:  Unknown
First Appearance:  "Avenging Angel"
Other Appearances:  None
Quickenings:  None
Notes:  Insane former SAS commando who murdered several Parisian
   prostitutes.


Carbassa, Benny
Actor:  Tony Rosato              Age:  100+
Status:  Alive
Mentors:  Unknown
Students:  Unknown
First Appearance:  "Vendetta"
Other Appearances:  None
Quickenings:  Unknown
Notes:  Small time hood befriended by Duncan in the 1920's.  Known among the
   fans of the show as Benny "You Have Got To Be Kidding!" Carbassa.




... "What do you want?"      "Your head... and The Prize!"
--- Blue Wave/RA v2.20 [NR]
 * Origin: Forethought BBS -=- Orlando, FL -=- 407-679-6561 (1:363/309)

Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 85 of 423
 From : The Raven                           1:363/309       .pä 29 Hîÿ 95 23:00
 To   : All
 Subj : Immortals List  2
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Ceirdwyn
Actor:  Kim Johnston Ulrich      Age:  1927+
Status:  Alive
Mentors:  Unknown
Students:  Unknown
First Appearance:  "Take Back The Night"
Other Appearances:  None
Quickenings:  Unknown
Notes:  Pict warrior woman who seeks revenge after her husband is murdered.


Chandler, Grace
Actor:  Julia Stemberger         Age:  320+
Status:  Alive
Mentors:  Unknown
Students:  Unknown
First Appearance:  "Saving Grace"
Other Appearances:  None
Quickenings:  Unknown
Notes:  Doctor/midwife obsessively pursued by Carlos Sandarro.


Christian, Michael
Actor:  Barry Pepper             Age:  47
Status:  Deceased                Beheaded By:  Duncan MacLeod
Mentors:  Unknown
Students:  Unknown
First Appearance:  "They Also Serve"
Other Appearances:  None
Quickenings:  Mei-Ling Shen, Jackson Trent
Notes:  Assisted by a Watcher who had fallen in love with him.


Cole, Caleb
Actor:  Marc Singer              Age:  Unknown
Status:  Deceased                Beheaded By:  Duncan MacLeod
Mentors:  Unknown
Students:  Unknown
First Appearance:  "Mountain Men"
Other Appearances:  None
Quickenings:  "Old Carl"
Notes:  Kidnapped Tessa.  Was the first Immortal seen to use something
   other than a sword.


Constantine, Marcus
Actor:  James Faulkner           Age:  2000+
Status:  Alive
Mentors:  Unknown
Students:  Unknown
First Appearance:  "Pharoh's Daughter"
Other Appearances:  None
Quickenings:  Unknown
Notes:  Roman general during the time of Cleopatra's reign.  Former lover
   of Nefertiri.


Cord, Andy
Actor:  Wolfgang Bodison         Age:  40+
Status:  Deceased                Beheaded By:  Duncan MacLeod
Mentors:  Unknown
Students:  Unknown
First Appearance:  "Brothers In Arms"
Other Appearances:  None
Quickenings:  Unknown
Notes:  Joe Dawson's former platoon sergeant in Viet Nam.  Paint-ball
   enthusiast.  Arms merchant who murdered Charlie DeSalvo's lover and later
   Charlie himself.


Crowley, Howard
Actor:  John Novack              Age:  Unknown
Status:  Deceased                Beheaded By:  Duncan MacLeod
Mentors:  Unknown
Students:  Unknown
First Appearance:  "Innocent Man"
Other Appearances:  None
Quickenings:  Lucas Desiree
Notes:  Small-town Sheriff who used his position to frame a homeless man for
   the murder of Lucas Desiree.  Died on his knees.


Cullen, Brian
Actor:  John Pyper Ferguson      Age:  210+
Status:  Deceased                Beheaded By:  Duncan MacLeod
Mentors:  Unknown
Students:  Unknown
First Appearance:  "Courage"
Other Appearances:  None
Quickenings:  Unknown
Notes:  By reputation, one of the best swordsmen in the world.  Lost his
   nerve for the fight and turned to drugs to bolster his courage.


Daimler, Ernst
Actor:  Andrew Woodall           Age:  85+
Deceased:  Deceased              Beheaded By:  Duncan MacLeod
Mentors:  Unknown
Students:  Unknown
First Appearance:  "Mortal Sins"
Other Appearances:  None
Quickenings:  Unknown
Notes:  Former Nazi major turned leader of an Aryan Supremicist group.


Darius
Actor:  Werner Stocker           Age:  2000+
Status:  Deceased                Beheaded By:  The Hunters
Mentors:  Unknown
Students:  Grayson, Duncan MacLeod
First Appearance:  "Band of Brothers"
Other Appearances:  "For Evil's Sake", "Tomorrow We Die", "Saving Grace",
  "The Beast Below", "The Hunters", "The Watchers"
Quickenings:  The Priest
Notes:  Ancient general who killed a priest at the gates of Paris many
   centuries ago, then abruptly gave up violence and retired to the Church.
   Killed by mortals on Holy Ground.


de Bourgogne, Michel
Actor:  Franck Dubosc            Age:  Unknown
Status:  Deceased                Beheaded By:  Duncan MacLeod
Mentors:  Unknown
Students:  Unknown
First Appearance:  "Unholy Alliance, Part 1"
Other Appearances:  None
Quickenings:  Unknown
Notes:  French warrior who interrupted Duncan MacLeod while Duncan was
   giving a young English lord a chess lesson.


Desiree, Lucas
Actor:  Victor Young             Age:  165+
Status:  Deceased                Beheaded By:  Howard Crowley
Mentors:  Unknown
Students:  Unknown
First Appearance:  "Innocent Man"
Other Appearances:  None
Quickenings:  Unknown
Notes:  Confederate Captain who encountered a defenseless Duncan and let
   him go free.


Devereux
Actor:  Eli Gaby                 Age:  220+
Status:  Deceased                Beheaded By:  Felice Martin
Mentors:  Unknown
Students:  Unknown
First Appearance:  "Free Fall"
Other Appearances:  None
Quickenings:  Unknown
Notes:  Veangeful immortal seeking to kill Felice Martin.  Killed while
   draped over a weight bench.


Devlin, Annie
Actor:  Sheena Easton            Age:  100+
Status:  Alive
Mentors:  Unknown
Students:  Unknown
First Appearance:  "Eye For An Eye"
Other Appearances:  None
Quickenings:  Unknown
Notes:  Irish Republican Army terrorist who seeks revenge against Richie
   after her husband is killed during a botched assassination.




... "I wonder whose idea this was..." -- Duncan MacLeod
--- Blue Wave/RA v2.20 [NR]
 * Origin: Forethought BBS -=- Orlando, FL -=- 407-679-6561 (1:363/309)

Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 86 of 423
 From : The Raven                           1:363/309       .pä 29 Hîÿ 95 23:00
 To   : All
 Subj : Immortals List  3
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Drakov
Actor:  Peter Firth              Age:  120+
Status:  Deceased                Beheaded By:  Duncan MacLeod
Mentors:  Unknown
Students:  Unknown
First Appearance:  "Warmonger"
Other Appearances:  None
Quickenings:  Unknown
Notes:  Behind-The-Scenes power-broker who seeks to extend hostile relations
   between his nation and its enemies.


Durgan, John
Actor:  Brion James              Age:  217+
Status:  Deceased                Beheaded By:   Duncan MacLeod
Mentors:  Unknown
Students:  Unknown
First Appearance:  "The Cross of St. Antoine"
Other Appearances:  None
Quickenings:  Unknown
Notes:  Murderous and self-educated Immortal who murders Joe Dawson's
   girlfriend.


el-Kahir, Hamza
Actor:  John Suda                Age:  352+
Status:  Deceased                Beheaded By:  Xavier St. Cloud
Mentors:  Unknown
Students:  Unknown
First Appearance:  "Finale, Part 1"
Other Appearances:  None
Quickenings:  Unknown
Notes:  Friend of Duncan's who fought Xavier St. Cloud to keep him from
   killing Duncan.  Hamza didn't think Duncan was ready to face St. Cloud.


Fasil, Irman
Actor:  Peter Diamond            Age:  Unknown
Status:  Deceased                Beheaded By:  Connor MacLeod
Mentors:  Unknown
Students:  Unknown
First Appearance:  "Highlander" (film)
Other Appearances:  None
Quickenings:  Unknown
Notes:  Immortal killed by Connor in the parking garage at the beginning of
   the film.


FitzCairn, Hugh
Actor:  Roger Daltrey            Age:  600+
Status:  Deceased                Beheaded By:  Kalas
Mentors:  Unknown
Students:  Unknown
First Appearance:  "The Hunters"
Other Appearances:  "Star Crossed"
Quickenings:  Unknown
Notes:  Foppish friend of Duncan's who brought the news of The Hunters to
   Duncan.  Was killed on a barge in the sewers beneath Paris.


Gallen, Anthony
Actor:  Roddy Piper              Age:  Unknown
Status:  Deceased                Beheaded By:  Duncan MacLeod
Mentors:  Unknown
Students:  Unknown
First Appearance:  "An Epitaph for Tommy"
Other Appearances:  None
Quickenings:  Unknown
Notes:  Immortal assassin hired to murder a newspaper magnate by the
   magnate's daughter.


Garrick, John
Actor:  Garwin Sanford           Age:  360+
Status:  Deceased                Beheaded By:  Duncan MacLeod
Mentors:  Unknown
Students:  Unknown
First Appearance:  "Shadows"
Other Appearances:  None
Quickenings:  Unknown
Notes:  Psychic Immortal who projected his nightmares into Duncan's mind.
   Killed in Duncan's apartment over the dojo.


Grayson
Actor:  James Horan              Age:  1800+
Status:  Deceased                Beheaded By:  Duncan MacLeod
Mentors:  Darius
Students:  Unknown
First Appearance:  "Band of Brothers"
Other Appearances:  None
Quickenings:  Unknown
Notes:  Formerly a general.  Killed on a sulfur boat in Seacouver bay.


Gregor
Actor:  Joel Wyner               Age:  130+
Status:  Alive
Mentors:  Unknown
Students:  Unknown
First Appearance:  "Studies in Light"
Other Appearances:  None
Quickenings:  Unknown
Notes:  Nihilistic photographer who likes to play death-games with mortals.


Gris, Herbert
Actor:  No Credit Given          Age:  225+
Status:  Alive
Mentors:  Unknown
Students:  Unknown
First Appearance:  "Finale, Part 2"
Other Appearances:  None
Quickenings:  Unknown
Notes:  Only appears in the Watcher database.  Is used by Christine Saltzer
   to convince newspaper editor Patrick Clancy of the existance of Immortals.
   Uses the alias "Graydon Hammond" in the modern day.


Horne, Rebecca
Actor:  Nadia Cameron            Age:  1500+
Status:  Deceased                Beheaded By:  Luther
Mentors:  Unknown
Students:  Amanda, Luther, Henri Valjean
First Appearance:  "Legacy"
Other Appearances:  None
Quickenings:  Unknown
Note:  Teacher of Amanda, Henri Valjean, and Luther.  Traded her life for
   that of her mortal husband.


Hyde, Martin
Actor:  Michael Siberry          Age:  400+
Status:  Deceased                Beheaded By:  Duncan MacLeod
Mentors:  Unknown
Students:  Unknown
First Appearance:  "Prodigal Son"
Other Appearances:  None
Quickenings:  Segur
Notes:  Hunted older Immortals by tricking their students into leading him
   right to them.


James
Actor:  Adrian Hughes            Age:  Unknown
Status:  Deceased                Beheaded By:  Pallin Wolf
Mentors:  Unknown
Students:  Unknown
First Appearance:  "The Darkness"
Other Appearances:  None
Quickenings:  Unknown
Notes:  Immortal tricked into going into the "darkroom".  Pallin Wolf was a
   Hunter, not an Immortal.


Kagan, Lucas
Actor:  Paudge Behan             Age:  90
Status:  Deceased                Beheaded By:  Duncan MacLeod
Mentors:  Tarsis
Students:  Unknown
First Appearance:  "Reasonable Doubt"
Other Appearances:  None
Quickenings:  Unknown
Notes:  Found by Tarsis in the streets of Dublin while still a child.
   Tarsis shot him when he was 25 and taught him to be a thief.  Called his
   beheading "an execution".




... "You know what?  You ought to worry..." -- Duncan MacLeod
--- Blue Wave/RA v2.20 [NR]
 * Origin: Forethought BBS -=- Orlando, FL -=- 407-679-6561 (1:363/309)

Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 87 of 423
 From : The Raven                           1:363/309       .pä 29 Hîÿ 95 23:00
 To   : All
 Subj : Immortals List  4
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Kalas
Actor:  David Robb               Age:  380+
Status:  Deceased                Beheaded By:  Duncan MacLeod
Mentors:  Paul
Students:  Unknown
First Appearance:  "Song of the Executioner"
Other Appearances:  "Star Crossed, "Methos", "Finale, Part 1", "Finale,
   Part 2"
Quickenings:  Hugh FitzCairn, Peter Hale, Paul, Timon, Unnamed Immortal #3
Notes:  Expert forger and operatic tenor.  Lost his singing voice when Duncan
   slashed his throat with a piece of glass.  Swore to take everything Duncan
   cared for away from him.  Was beheaded on the Eiffel Tower.


Kamir
Actor:  Kabir Bedi               Age:  231+
Status:  Deceased                Beheaded By:  Duncan MacLeod
Mentors:  Unknown
Students:  Unknown
First Appearance:  "The Wrath of Kali"
Other Appearances:  None
Quickenings:  Unknown
Notes:  Thugee assassin and priest who hunted down and murdered those he held
   responsible for the theft of the statue called the "Bengal Kali".



Kane
Actor:  Mario Van Peebles        Age:  400+
Status:  Deceased                Beheaded By:  Connor MacLeod
Mentors:  Unknown
Students:  Unknown
First Appearance:  "Highlander:  The Final Dimension" (film)
Other Appearances:  None
Quickenings:  Nakano, Unnamed Immortal #1
Notes:  Buried under a mountain in Japan for 300 years.


Kanis, Peter
Actor:  Justin Louis             Age:  350+
Status:  Deceased                Beheaded By:  Duncan MacLeod
Mentors:  Unknown
Students:  Unknown
First Appearance:  "Leader of the Pack
Other Appearances:  None
Quickenings:  Unnamed Immortal #4
Notes:  Hunted Immortals using a pack of hounds.  Could control the dogs
   telepathically.  Killed outside of MacLeod's house.


Kanwulf
Actor:  Carsten Norgaard         Age:  800+
Status:  Deceased                Beheaded By:  Duncan MacLeod
Mentors:  Unknown
Students:  Unknown
First Appearance:  "Homeland"
Other Appearances:  None
Quickenings:  Unknown
Notes:  The village priest for Loch Shiel, Duncan's original home.  Actually
   a worshipper of Odin.  Duncan "killed" him in 1618, but didn't know then
   that immortals had to be beheaded to truly be killed.  Duncan took his
   head using his (Duncan's) father's sword.


Karros, Paul
Actor:  Miguel Fernandes         Age:  2100+
Status:  Deceased                Beheaded By:  Duncan MacLeod
Mentors:  Unknown
Students:  Unknown
First Appearance:  "The Revolutionary"
Other Appearances:  None
Quickenings:  Unknown
Notes:  Fought by the side of Spartacus.  Balkan revolutionary.  Beheaded on
   top of an ammunition dump.


Kastagir, Sunda
Actor:  Hugh Quarshie            Age:  250+
Status:  Deceased                Beheaded By:  The Kurgan
Mentors:  Unknown
Students:  Unknown
First Appearance:  "Highlander" (film)
Other Appearances:  None
Quickenings:  Unknown
Notes:  Meets Connor on the bridge and offers Connor some "boom-boom".
   Beheaded by the Kurgan, making Connor MacLeod and the Kurgan the last
   two.


Kenny
Actor:  Myles Ferguson           Age:  823
Status:  Alive
Mentors:  Amanda, Frank Brody, Dallman Ross, Duncan MacLeod, Richie Ryan
Students:  Unknown
First Appearance:  "The Lamb"
Other Appearances:  "Reunion"
Quickenings:  Frank Brody, Dallman Ross
Notes:  Former student of Amanda.  Ancient Immortal trapped in the body of a
   ten year old.  Kills kindly Immortals who take him in to "protect" him.


Kent, Michael
Actor:  Stephen McHattie         Age:  Unknown
Status:  Deceased                Beheaded By:  Duncan MacLeod
Mentors:  Unknown
Students:  Unknown
First Appearance:  "The Samurai"
Other Appearances:  None
Quickenings:  Unknown
Notes:  Immortal who mudered his Japanese wife's lover; she runs to Duncan
   for assistance.


Keogh, David
Actor:  Cameron Bancroft         Age:  220+
Status:  Alive
Mentors:  Unknown
Students:  Unknown
First Appearance:  "Obsession"
Other Appearances:  None
Quickenings:  Unknown
Notes:  Obsessive Immortal who drives his "fiance" to suicide.


Kern
Actor:  Randall "Tex" Cobb       Age:  500+
Status:  Deceased                Beheaded By:  Duncan MacLeod
Mentors:  Unknown
Students:  Unknown
First Appearance:  "Line of Fire"
Other Appearances:  None
Quickenings:  Unknown
Notes:  Former cavalry scout.  Duncan beheads him with a spear.


Kidman, Paul
Actor:  Peter Outerbridge        Age:  283+
Status:  Deceased                Beheaded By:  Duncan MacLeod
Mentors:  Unknown
Students:  Unknown
First Appearance:  "Reluctant Heroes"
Other Appearances:  None
Quickenings:  Unknown
Notes:  Hired assassin working for a gangster.  Had murdered MacLeod's friend
   in England in 1712.


Killian, Simon
Actor:  Sean Allen               Age:  127+
Status:  Deceased                Beheaded By:  Duncan MacLeod
Mentors:  Unknown
Students:  Unknown
First Appearance:  "The Colonel"
Other Appearances:  None
Quickenings:
Notes:  British army Colonel convicted of war crimes and sentenced to life
   imprisonment on the basis of Duncan MacLeod's testimony.  Spent 77 years
   in jail.  Has an affinity for spiders.




... "Ramirez's blade didn't cut deep enough." -- Connor MacLeod
--- Blue Wave/RA v2.20 [NR]
 * Origin: Forethought BBS -=- Orlando, FL -=- 407-679-6561 (1:363/309)

Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 88 of 423
 From : The Raven                           1:363/309       .pä 29 Hîÿ 95 23:00
 To   : All
 Subj : Immortals List  5
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Kincaid, Terence
Actor:  Mike Preston             Age:  270+
Status:  Deceased                Beheaded By:  Duncan MacLeod
Mentors:  Unknown
Students:  Unknown
First Appearance:  "Reunion"
Other Appearances:  None
Quickenings:  Unknown
Notes:  Former British Naval captain.  Stranded on an island in the South
   Pacific by Duncan MacLeod, where he "starved to death, over and over and
   over".  Hunted and then later partnered with Kenny.


King, Tyler
Actor:  Callum Kieth Rennie      Age:  Unknown
Status:  Deceased                Beheaded By:  Duncan MacLeod
Mentors:  Unknown
Students:  Unknown
First Appearance:  "The Innocent"
Other Appearances:  None
Quickenings:  Alan Welles
Notes:  Hunted Mikey after killing Alan Welles.  Beheaded in a train
   switching station.


Korolus, Marcus
Actor:  John Hertzler            Age:  350+
Status:  Deceased                Beheaded By:  Duncan MacLeod
Mentors:  Unknown
Students:  Unknown
First Appearance:  "See No Evil"
Other Appearances:  None
Quickenings:  Unknown
Notes:  Immortal serial killer.  Duncan kills him in a theatre.


Kristen
Actor:  Ann Turkel               Age:  370+
Status:  Deceased                Beheaded By:  Methos
Mentors:  Unknown
Students:  Duncan MacLeod
First Appearance:  "Chivalry"
Other Appearances:  None
Quickenings:  Unknown
Notes:  Psychotically obsessive Immortal who fell in love with Duncan MacLeod,
   then tried to kill him when he left her.  Attempted to do the same to
   Richie Ryan.  Ran a world-class modelling agency.


Kristov
Actor:  Alexis Daniel            Age:  269+
Status:  Deceased                Beheaded By:  Richie Ryan
Mentors:  Unknown
Students:  Unknown
First Appearance:  "Testimony"
Other Appearances:  None
Quickenings:  Unknown
Notes:  Cossack drug dealer and impressionist artist.  Threatens to kill
   Richie if Duncan doesn't kill a witness against him.  Richie's killing
   stroke is not shown on screen.

The Kurgan
Actor:  Clancy Brown             Age:  7000+
Status:  Deceased                Beheaded By:  Connor MacLeod
Mentors:  Unknown
Students:  Unknown
First Appearance:  "Highlander" (film)
Other Appearances:  None
Quickenings:  Sunda Castagir, Flavin Parocchi, Juan Sanchez Villa-Lobos
   Ramirez, Ivan Trotski, Osta Vasilek
Notes:  The original Highlander villain.  In the first film, Connor kills
   him to claim The Prize.


Kurlow, Lyman
Actor:  Anthony DeLongis         Age:  230+
Status:  Deceased                Beheaded By:  Duncan MacLeod
Mentors:  Unknown
Students:  Unknown
First Appearance:  "Blackmail"
Other Appearances:  None
Quickenings:  Unknown
Notes:  Long-time partner of Peter Matlin.


Kuyler
Actor:  Peter Howitt             Age:  235+
Status:  Deceased                Beheaded By:  Duncan MacLeod
Mentors:  Unknown
Students:  Unknown
Status:  "For Evil's Sake"
Other Appearances:  None
Quickenings:  Unknown
Notes:  Acrobat/Mime/Assassin driven insane by long-time absynthe addiction.


Laszlo, Zoltan
Actor:  Mark Acheson             Age:  Unknown
Status:  Alive
Mentors:  Unknown
Students:  Unknown
First Appearance:  "Courage"
Other Appearances:  None
Quickenings:  Unknown
Notes:  Immortal who seeks to confront Brian Cullen on the docks in 1890's
   San Francisco; Cullen gives him to Duncan "as a gift", but Duncan refuses.


Legris, Anton
Actor:  Philippe Agael           Age:  Unknown
Status:  Deceased                Beheaded By:  Xavier St. Cloud
Mentors:  Unknown
Students:  Unknown
First Appearance:  "Unholy Alliance, Part 1"
Other Appearances:  None
Quickenings:  Unknown
Notes:  Victim of St. Cloud's mortal mercenaries.  Killed in Paris.


Luther
Actor:  Emile Abossolo M'bo      Age:  Unknown
Status:  Deceased                Beheaded By:  Duncan MacLeod
Mentors:  Rebecca Horne
Students:  Unknown
First Appearance:  "Legacy"
Other Appearances:  None
Quickenings:  Rebecca Horne, Henri Valjean
Notes:  Sought all of the pieces of the Eternity Crystal, which supposedly
   would give him infinite power.


MacLeod, Connor
Actor:  Christopher Lambert      Age:  478
Status:  Alive
Mentors:  Nekano, Juan Sanchez Villa-Lobos Ramirez
Students:  Connor MacLeod
First Appearance:  "Highlander" (film)
Other Appearances:  "The Gathering", "Highlander:  The Final Dimension"
   (film)
Quickenings:  Irman Fasil, Kane, The Kurgan, Unnamed Immortal #2
Notes:  The original Immortal.  Won The Prize in the first film by killing
   The Kurgan.  Kinsman to Duncan MacLeod.


MacLeod, Duncan
Actor:  Adrian Paul              Age:  403
Status:  Alive
Mentors:  Darius, Connor MacLeod, Kristen, "Old Carl", Paul, Mei-Ling Shen,
   Timon
Students:  Kenny, Felicia Martins, Mikey, "Old Carl", Richie Ryan, Michelle
   Webster
First Appearance:  "The Gathering"
Other Appearances:  All Subsequent Episodes of the Series
Quickenings:  Andrew Ballin, Charles Browning, Alfred Cahill, Michael
   Christian, Caleb Cole, Andy Cord, Howard Crowley, Brian Cullen, Ernst
   Daimler, Michel de Bourgogne, Drakov, John Durgan, Anthony Gallen, John
   Garrick,  Grayson, Martin Hyde, Lucas Kagan, Kalas, Kamir, Peter Kanis,
   Kanwulf, Marcus Karolus, Paul Karros, Michael Kent, Kern, Paul Kidman,
   Simon Killian, Terence Kincaid, Tyler King, Lyman Kurlow, Kuyler, Luther,
   Peter Matlin, Michael Moore, Nefertiri, Gabriel Piton, Slan Quince, Walter
   Reinhardt, Carlos Sendarro, Xavier St. Cloud, Tommy Sullivan, Tarsis,
   Alexi Voshin, Nicholas Ward, Axel Whittaker
Notes:  Hero of the television series.  Lover of Amanda.




... "It's about coincidence." -- Richie Ryan
--- Blue Wave/RA v2.20 [NR]
 * Origin: Forethought BBS -=- Orlando, FL -=- 407-679-6561 (1:363/309)

Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 89 of 423
 From : The Raven                           1:363/309       .pä 29 Hîÿ 95 23:00
 To   : All
 Subj : Immortals List  6
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Mako
Actor:  Jonathan Banks           Age:  600+
Status:  Deceased                Beheaded By:  Richie Ryan
Mentors:  Unknown
Students:  Unknown
First Appearance:  "Under Color Of Authority"
Other Appearances:  None
Quickenings:  Unknown
Notes:  Immortal obsessed with the law.  Tracks criminals relentlessly.
   Killed after being trapped in a piece of stage decoration.


Martin, Felice
Actor:  Joan Jett                Age:  220+
Status:  Alive
Mentors:  Duncan MacLeod
Students:  Unknown
First Appearance:  "Free Fall"
Other Appearances:  None
Quickenings:  Devereux
Notes:  Pretended to be a neonate Immortal.  Murdered wife and adopted child
   of Devereaux.


Matlin, Peter
Actor:  Bill Croft               Age:  240+
Status:  Deceased                Beheaded By:  Duncan MacLeod
Mentors:  Unknown
Students:  Unknown
First Appearance:  "Blackmail"
Other Appearances:  None
Quickenings:  Unknown
Notes:  Parter of Lyman Kurlow.  His beheading is caught on videotape by a
   mortal.


Methos
Actor:  Peter Wingfield          Age:  5,000+
Status:  Alive
Mentors:  Unknown
Students:  Unknown
First Appearance:  "Methos"
Other Appearances:  "Finale, Part 1", "Finale, Part 2", "Chivalry"
Quickenings:  Kristen
Notes:  The oldest living immortal.  A member of the watchers under the name
   "Adam Pierson", in charge of the "Methos" research project.


Mikey
Actor:  Pruitt Taylor Vince      Age:  Unknown
Status:  Deceased                Beheaded By:  Freight Train
Mentors:  Alan Welles, Duncan MacLeod, Richie Ryan
Students:  Unknown
First Appearance:  "The Innocent"
Other Appearances:  None
Quickenings:  Unknown
Notes:  Mentally retarded though physically imposing Immortal.  Obsessed with
   trains.  Committed suicide to keep Richie Ryan from having to kill him.


Moore, Michael
Actor:  Geraint Wyn-Davies       Age:  100+
Status:  Deceased                Beheaded By:  Duncan MacLeod
Mentors:  Unknown
Students:  Unknown
First Appearance:  "Turnabout"
Other Appearances:  None
Quickenings:  Unknown
Notes:  Suffered from Multiple-Personality Disorder, and frequently acted
   as "Quentin Barnes".


Nakano
Actor:  Mako                     Age:  400+
Status:  Deceased                Beheaded By:  Kane
Mentors:  Unknown
Students:  Connor MacLeod
First Appearance:  "Highlander:  The Final Dimension" (film)
Other Appearances:  None
Quickenings:  Unknown
Notes:  Japanese sorceror who taught Connor the arts of swordmaking.


Nefertiri
Actor:  Nia Peeples              Age:  2000+
Status:  Deceased                Beheaded By:  Duncan MacLeod
Mentors:  Unknown
Students:  Unknown
First Appearance:  "Pharoah's Daughter"
Other Appearances:  None
Quickenings:  Unknown
Notes:  Egyptian.  Former handmaiden of Cleopatra; psychotically obsessed
   with revenge against Marcus Constantine, whom she blames for Cleopatra's
   suicide.


O'Brady, Kit
Actor:  Nicholas Campbell        Age:  152+
Status:  Alive
Mentors:  Unknown
Students:  Unknown
First Appearance:  "Double Eagle"
Other Appearances:  None
Quickenings:  Unknown
Notes:  San Francisco gambler who lost his saloon in a card game with Amanda.
   Suffered a 107 year run of bad luck since then.  Always sneezes
   when his "proximity sense" goes off.


"Old Carl"
Actor:  John Dennis Johnston     Age:  Unknown
Status:  Deceased                Beheaded By:  Caleb Cole
Mentors:  Unknown
Students:  Duncan MacLeod
First Appearance:  "Mountain Men"
Other Appearances:  None
Quickenings:  Unknown
Notes:  Possibly insane mountain man who taught Duncan MacLeod all he knew
   about tracking in return for learning how to fight.


Paul
Actor:  Eugene Lipinski          Age:  400+
Status:  Deceased                Beheaded By:  Kalas
Mentors:  Unknown
Students:  Peter Hale, Kalas, Duncan MacLeod, Timon
First Appearance:  "Song of the Executioner"
Other Appearances:  None
Quickenings:  Unknown
Notes:  Monk who ran a "sanctuary for Immortals" in a monastery.  Member of
   a troup of performing monks (singing Gregorian chants).  Killed on stage.


Piton, Gabriel
Actor:  Nigel Terry              Age:  250+
Status:  Deceased                Beheaded By:  Duncan MacLeod
Mentors:  Unknown
Students:  Unknown
First Appearance:  "Eye of the Beholder"
Other Appearances:  None
Quickenings:  Unknown
Notes:  Fashion designer and art thief.  Murders Richie Ryan's female friend.


Quince, Slan
Actor:  Richard Moll             Age:  208
Status:  Deceased                Beheaded By:  Duncan MacLeod
Mentors:  Patrick Stanze
Students:  Unknown
First Appearance:  "The Gathering"
Other Appearances:  None
Quickenings:  Unknown
Notes:  The original TV series villain.  Has single-shot gun built into the
   haft of his sword.  Also called "Slan the Cat" because he likes to play
   with his victims.


Ramirez, Juan Sanchez Villa-Lobos
Actor:  Sean Connery             Age:  2437
Status:  Deceased                Beheaded By:  The Kurgan
Mentors:  Unknown
Students:  Connor MacLeod
First Appearance:  "Highlander" (film)
Other Appearances:  None
Quickenings:  Unknown
Notes:  Mentor to Connor MacLeod.  Killed near the top of Connor's castle.




... "You're going to have to do better than that!" -- MacLeod
--- Blue Wave/RA v2.20 [NR]
 * Origin: Forethought BBS -=- Orlando, FL -=- 407-679-6561 (1:363/309)

Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 90 of 423
 From : The Raven                           1:363/309       .pä 29 Hîÿ 95 23:00
 To   : All
 Subj : Immortals List  7
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Reinhardt, Walter
Actor:  Christoph Ohrt           Age:  300+
Status:  Deceased                Beheaded By:  Duncan MacLeod
Mentors:  Unknown
Students:  Unknown
First Appearance:  "Revenge is Sweet"
Other Appearances:  None
Quickenings:  Unknown
Notes:  Former highwayman.  Used his girlfriend as a pawn against Duncan.


Robinson, Carl
Actor:  Bruce Young              Age:  178
Status:  Alive
Mentors:  Unknown
Students:  Unknown
First Appearance:  "Run For Your Life"
Other Appearances:  None
Quickenings:  Unknown
Notes:  Former slave.  Saved from lynching by Duncan MacLeod.  Former major
   league baseball player, now political activist.


Ross, Dallman
Actor:  Eric Keenleyside         Age:  Unknown
Status:  Deceased                Beheaded By:  Kenny
Mentors:  Unknown
Students:  Kenny
First Appearance:  "The Lamb"
Other Appearances:  None
Quickenings:  Unknown
Notes:  Sought revenge against Kenny after Kenny mudered his mortal wife.
   Beheaded from behind, by surprise.

Ryan, Richie
Actor:  Stan Kirsch              Age:  21
Status:  Alive
Mentors:  Darius, Duncan MacLeod
Students:  Kenny, Mikey
First Appearance:  "The Gathering"
Other Appearances:  "Family Tree", "Innocent Man", "Road Not Taken", "Free
   Fall", "Bad Day in Building A", "Mountain Men", "Deadly Medicine", "Sea
   Witch",  "Revenge is Sweet", "See No Evil", "Eyewitness", "Band of
   Brothers", "For Tomorrow We Die", "For Evil's Sake", "The Beast Below",
   "Saving Grace", "The Lady and the Tiger", "Eye of the Beholder", "Avenging
   Angel", "Revenge of the Sword", "Nowhere to Run", "The Hunters", "The
   Watchers", "Turnabout", "Studies in Light", "The Darkness", "Eye for an
   Eye", "Epitaph for Tommy", "The Return of Amanda", "Under Color of
   Authority", "Prodigal Son", "Counterfeit, Part 1", "Counterfeit, Part 2",
   "Line of Fire", "Courage", "Shadows", "The Lamb", "Obsession", "They Also
   Serve", "Blind Faith", "Song of the Executioner", "Take Back the Night",
   "Testimony", "The Innocent", "Leader of the Pack", "Double Eagle",
   "Reluctant Heroes", "The Wrath of Kali", "Chivalry"
Quickenings:  Kristov, Mako, Mikey
Notes:  Richie Ryan did not actually become Immortal until "The Darkness".
   Student of Duncan MacLeod.  One-time lover of Felicia Martins.  Mentor to
   Kenny.  Former motorcycle racer.


Sean
Actor:  Jesse Moss               Age:  Unknown
Status:  Deceased                Beheaded By:  Unknown
Mentors:  Unknown
Students:  Unknown
First Appearance:  "The Lamb"
Other Appearances:  None
Quickenings:  Unknown
Notes:  Union drummer boy.  Physically a teen-ager.


Segur
Actor:  Nicolas Chagrin          Age:  150+
Status:  Deceased                Beheaded By:  Martin Hyde
Mentors:  Unknown
Students:  Unknown
First Appearance:  "Prodigal Son"
Other Appearances:  None
Quickenings:  Unknown
Notes:  Mentor to Duncan MacLeod.  Lover of find brandy.  Attended funeral
   of a friend with Duncan.


Sendaro, Carlos
Actor:  Georges Corraface        Age:  150+
Status:  Deceased                Beheaded By:  Subway Train
Mentors:  Unknown
Students:  Unknown
First Appearance:  "Saving Grace"
Other Appearances:  None
Quickenings:  Unknown
Notes:  Obsessed with "possessing" Grace Chandler.  Was killed after being
   run-over by a subway train.


Sharon
Actor:  Alexa Gilmour            Age:  Unknown
Status:  Deceased                Beheaded By:  Axel Whittaker
Mentors:  Axel Whittaker
Students:  Unknown
First Appearance:  "Rite of Passage"
Other Appearances:  None
Quickenings:  Unknown
Notes:  Used as "bait" by Axel Whittaker, who killed her after she tried to
   escape with Duncan.  Was never taught to fight.


Shen, Mei-Ling
Actor:  Vivian Wu                Age:  818+
Status:  Deceased                Beheaded By:  Michael Christian
Mentors:  Unknown
Students:  Duncan MacLeod, Kiem Sun
First Appearance:  "They Also Serve"
Other Appearances:  None
Quickenings:  Unknown
Notes:  Mentor to Kiem Sun and Duncan MacLeod.  Killed in her swimming pool.


St. Cloud, Xavier
Actor:  Roland Gift               Age:  372+
Status:  Deceased                 Beheaded By:  Duncan MacLeod
Mentors:  Unknown
Students:  Unknown
First Appearance:  "For Tomorrow We Die"
Other Appearances:  None
Quickenings:  Hamza el-Kahir, Anton Legris, Jason Talbott
Notes:  Moor with a Christian name.  Former jewel thief.  He used mustard
   gas to kill everyone in a shop, then cleaned it out after he had recovered
   from the gas.  Lost his right hand in his original fight with Duncan
   MacLeod.  Hired mercenaries to shoot down immortals for easy killing.


Sullivan, Tommy
Actor:  Bruce Weitz               Age:  130+
Status:  Deceased                 Beheaded By:  Duncan MacLeod
Mentors:  Unknown
Students:  Unknown
First Appearance:  "The Fighter"
Other Appearances:  None
Quickenings:  Unknown
Notes:  Former boxer.  Boxing trainer.  Killed in a boxing ring.


Sun, Kiem
Actor:  Soon Teck Oh              Age:  818+
Status:  Alive
Mentors:  Mei-Ling Shen
Students:  Unknown
First Appearance:  "Road Not Taken"
Other Appearances:  None
Quickenings:  Unknown
Notes:  Cowardly Immortal who hides in a Buddhist monastery to avoid fights.
   Tried to create a loyal army of thugs through drugs.


Talbott, Jason
Actor:  Roark Critchlow           Age:  Unknown
Status:  Deceased                 Beheaded By:  Xavier St. Cloud
Mentors:  Unknown
Students:  Unknown
First Appearance:  "Unholy Alliance, Part 1"
Other Appearances:  None
Quickenings:  Unknown
Notes:  Second victim of Xavier St. Cloud and his mercenaries.  Killed in a
   New York City parking garage.




... "But I'm just a boy!" -- Kenny        "Like Hell!" -- Amanda
--- Blue Wave/RA v2.20 [NR]
 * Origin: Forethought BBS -=- Orlando, FL -=- 407-679-6561 (1:363/309)

Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 91 of 423
 From : The Raven                           1:363/309       .pä 29 Hîÿ 95 23:00
 To   : All
 Subj : Immortals List  8
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Tarsis
Actor:  Richard Lintern           Age:  57+
Status:  Deceased                 Beheaded By:  Duncan MacLeod
Mentors:  Unknown
Students:  Lucas Kagan
First Appearance:  "Reasonable Doubts"
Other Appearances:  None
Quickenings:  Unknown
Notes:  Bank robber.  Mentor to Lucas Kagan.  Killed outside an opium den.


Timon
Actor:  Demetri Goritsas          Age:  Unknown
Status:  Deceased                 Beheaded By:  Kalas
Mentors:  Paul
Students:  Duncan MacLeod
First Appearance:  "Song Of The Executioner"
Other Appearances:  None
Quickenings:  Unknown
Notes:  Monk taking sanctuary at Paul's monastery.  Taught Duncan MacLeod
   how to read.  Killed just outside the monastery gates.


Unnamed Immortal #1
Actor:  Raoul Trujillo             Age:  400+
Status:  Deceased                  Beheaded By:  Kane
Mentors:  Unknown
Students:  Unknown
First Appearance:  "Highlander:  The Final Dimension" (film)
Other Appearances:  None
Quickenings:  Unknown
Notes:  Follower of Kane.  Trapped in the cave-in of Nakano's cave with
   Kane and the other Unnamed Mongolian Warrior.  Beheaded in mining tunnel.


Unnamed Immortal #2
Actor:  Jean-Pierre Prusse         Age:  400+
Status:  Deceased                  Beheaded By:  Connor MacLeod
Mentors:  Unknown
Students:  Unknown
First Appearance:  "Highlander:  The Final Dimension" (film)
Other Appearances:  None
Quickenings:  Unknown
Notes:  Follower of Kane.  Sent to New York to find Connor.  Killed in a
   hospital laundry room.


Unnamed Immortal #3
Actor:  No Credit Given            Age:  Unknown
Status:  Deceased                  Beheaded By:  Kalas
Mentors:  Unknown
Students:  Unknown
First Appearance:  "Finale, Part 1"
Other Appearances:  None
Quickenings:  Unknown
Notes:  Run down by Kalas and Nino before being beheaded.  Kalas needed his
   sword.  Beheaded with a "golf-swing".


Unnamed Immortal #4
Actor:  No Credit Given            Age:  Unknown
Status:  Deceased                  Beheaded By:  Peter Kanis
Mentors:  Unknown
Students:  Unknown
First Appearance:  "Leader of the Pack"
Other Appearances:  None
Quickenings:  Unknown
Notes:  Chased by Kanis's hounds at the beginning of the episode.


Ursa
Actor:  Christian Van Acker        Age:  400+
Status:  Alive
Mentors:  Unknown
Students:  Unknown
First Appearance:  "The Beast Below"
Other Appearances:  None
Quickenings:  Unknown
Notes:  Mute giant, possibly slightly retarded.  Used the head of a glaive
   as a weapon.  Formerly living under the Paris opera, now living in a
   monastery (perhaps Paul's monastery).


Voshin, Alexei
Actor:  Stephen Macht              Age:  120+
Status:  Deceased                  Beheaded By:  Boat Propeller
Mentors:  Unknown
Students:  Unknown
First Appearance:  "The Sea Witch"
Other Appearances:  None
Quickenings:  Unknown
Notes:  Russian drug dealer.  Knocked overboard during swordfight on his ship
   and caught in the propeller.


Ward, Nicholas
Actor:  Jeremy Brudenell           Age:  400+
Status:  Deceased                  Beheaded By:  Duncan MacLeod
Mentors:  Unknown
Students:  Unknown
First Appearance:  "The Vampire"
Other Appearances:  None
Quickenings:  Unknown
Notes:  Record producer.  Pretended to be a vampire in the 1800's.  Formerly
   used a sword-cane.


Webster, Michelle
Actor:  Gabrielle Miller           Age:  19
Status:  Alive
Mentors:  Amanda, Duncan MacLeod, Axel Whittaker
Students:  Unknown
First Appearance:  "Rite of Passage"
Other Appearances:  None
Quickenings:  Unknown
Notes:  Young girl watched by Duncan for years.  "Died" in a car crash.
   Wooed by Axel Whittaker.  Student of Amanda.


Welles, Alan
Actor:  Phillip Hayes              Age:  Unknown
Status:  Deceased                  Beheaded By:  Tyler King
Mentors:  Unknown
Students:  Mikey
First Appearance:  "The Innocent"
Other Appearances:  None
Quickenings:  Unknown
Notes:  Owner of a junkyard.  Until he was killed by Tyler King, he took
   care of Mikey.


Whittaker, Axel
Actor:  Rob Stewart                Age:  123+
Status:  Deceased                  Beheaded By:  Duncan MacLeod
Mentors:  Unknown
Students:  Sharon, Michelle Webster
First Appearance:  "Rite of Passage"
Other Appearances:  None
Quickenings:  Sharon
Notes:  Uses young and beautiful female immortals as "bait".  Keeps them
   ignorant of fencing.


     The following Immortals were mentioned in the series and films
by name, but were never actually portrayed.


Boyer
Age:  Unknown                      Mentioned In:  "They Also Serve"
Status:  Alive
Mentors:  Unknown
Students:  Unknown
Quickenings:  Richland
Notes:  Mentioned by Watchers during poker game.


Ferrer, Roy
Age:  Unknown                      Mentioned In:  "Finale, Part 2"
Status:  Deceased                  Beheaded By:  Unknown
Mentors:  Unknown
Students:  Unknown
Quickenings:  Unknown
Notes:  Listed in Watcher's database as previous assignment of Joe Dawson.




... "We're immortal, not gods." -- Duncan MacLeod
--- Blue Wave/RA v2.20 [NR]
 * Origin: Forethought BBS -=- Orlando, FL -=- 407-679-6561 (1:363/309)

Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 92 of 423
 From : The Raven                           1:363/309       .pä 29 Hîÿ 95 23:00
 To   : All
 Subj : Immortals List  9
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Gaspar
Age:  Unknown                      Mentioned In:  "They Also Serve"
Status:  Deceased                  Beheaded By:  Unknown
Mentors:  Unknown
Students:  Unknown
Quickenings:  Unknown
Notes:  Mentioned by Watchers during poker game.


Grant, Liza
Age:  Unknown                      Mentioned In:  "Finale, Part 2"
Status:  Deceased                  Beheaded By:  Unknown
Mentors:  Unknown
Students:  Unknown
Quickenings:  Unknown
Notes:  Listed in Watcher's database as previous assignment of Joe Dawson.


Hale, Peter
Age:  Unknown                      Mentioned In:  "Song of the Executioner"
Status:  Deceased                  Beheaded By:  Kalas
Mentors:  Paul
Students:  Unknown
Quickenings:  Unknown
Notes:  Murdered by Kalas at Paul's monastery before Duncan MacLeod arrived.


Ironhorse
Age:  215+                         Mentioned In:  "The Watchers"
Status:  Deceased                  Beheaded By:  Unknown
Mentors:  Unknown
Students:  Unknown
Quickenings:  Unknown
Notes:  Shawnee medicine man for three generations.  The Watchers now have
   his medicine pipe.


Okie
Age:  Unknown                      Mentioned In:  "The Watchers"
Status:  Deceased                  Beheaded By:  Unknown
Mentors:  Unknown
Students:  Unknown
Quickenings:  Unknown
Notes:  Gunfighter.  Killed while drunk.  The Watchers now have his shot
   glass.


Parocchi, Flavin
Age:  Unknown                      Mentioned In:  "The Watchers"
Status:  Deceased                  Beheaded By:  The Kurgan
Mentors:  Unknown
Students:  Unknown
Quickenings:  Unknown
Notes:  Listed in Watcher's database.


The Priest
Age:  Unknown                      Mentioned In:  "Band of Brothers"
Status:  Deceased                  Beheaded By:  Darius
Mentors:  Unknown
Students:  Unknown
Quickenings:  Unknown
Notes:  Supposedly the oldest Immortal (at the time).  Was killed at the
   gates of Paris.  After his beheading, Darius gave up his life as a general
   and took up life as a priest.


Racine, Alexandra
Age:  Unknown                      Mentioned In:  "Finale, Part 2"
Status:  Deceased                  Beheaded By:  Unknown
Mentors:  Unknown
Students:  Unknown
Quickenings:  Unknown
Notes:  Listed in Watcher's database as previous assignment of Jacques
   Vermas.


Richland
Age:  Unknown                      Mentioned In:  "They Also Serve"
Status:  Deceased                  Beheaded By:  Boyer
Mentors:  Unknown
Students:  Unknown
Quickenings:  Unknown
Notes:  Mentioned by Watchers during poker game.


Sarah
Age:  Unknown                      Mentioned In:  "They Also Serve"
Status:  Deceased                  Beheaded By:  Unknown
Mentors:  Unknown
Students:  Unknown
Quickenings:  Unknown
Notes:  Mentioned by Watchers during poker game.


Stanton
Age:  Unknown                      Mentioned In:  "They Also Serve"
Status:  Deceased                  Beheaded By:  Unknown
Mentors:  Unknown
Students:  Unknown
Quickenings:  Unknown
Notes:  Mentioned by Watchers during poker game.


Stanze, Patrick
Age:  Unknown                      Mentioned In:  Card Game
Status:  Unknown
Mentors:  Unknown
Students:  Slan Quince
Quickenings:  Unknown
Notes:  Mentioned on the Slan Quince Card.


Thackary
Age:  Unknown                      Mentioned In:  "The Hunters"
Status:  Deceased                  Beheaded By:  The Hunters
Mentors:  Unknown
Students:  Unknown
Quickenings:  Unknown
Notes:  Mentioned by Fitzcairn as "missing".


Trent, Jackson
Age:  Unknown                      Mentioned In:  "They Also Serve"
Status:  Deceased                  Beheaded By:  Michael Christian
Mentors:  Unknown
Students:  Unknown
Quickenings:  Unknown
Notes:  Romance novelist.  Killed by Michael Christian at the direction of
   his Watcher lover.


Trotski, Ivan
Age:  Unknown                      Mentioned In:  "The Watchers"
Status:  Deceased                  Beheaded By:  The Kurgan
Mentors:  Unknown
Students:  Unknown
Quickenings:  Unknown
Notes:  Listed in Watcher's database.


Ulov, Boris
Age:  Unknown                      Mentioned In:  "Finale, Part 2"
Status:  Deceased                  Beheaded By:  Unknown
Mentors:  Unknown
Students:  Unknown
Quickenings:  Unknown
Notes:  Listed in Watcher's database as previous assignment of Jacques
   Vermas.


Valjean, Henri
Age:  Unknown                      Mentioned In:  "Legacy"
Status:  Deceased                  Beheaded By:  Luther
Mentors:  Rebecca Horne
Students:  Unknown
Quickenings:  Unknown
Notes:  Former student of Rebecca Horn.  Luther killed him to acquire his
   shard of the Eternity Crystal.


Vazilek, Osta
Age:  Unknown                      Mentioned In:  Highlander (Film)
Status:  Deceased                  Beheaded By:  The Kurgan
Mentors:  Unknown
Students:  Unknown
Quickenings:  Unknown
Notes:  Connor MacLeod is questioned about his death.  (It is his picture
   Connor is shown during the interrogation.)


Watson, Robert
Age:  Unknown                      Mentioned In:  "Finale, Part 2"
Status:  Deceased                  Beheaded By:  Unknown
Mentors:  Unknown
Students:  Unknown
Quickenings:  Unknown
Notes:  Listed in Watcher's database as previous assignment of Jacques
   Vermas.




... "He'll keep coming?" -- Amanda   "He'll keep coming..." -- Duncan
--- Blue Wave/RA v2.20 [NR]
 * Origin: Forethought BBS -=- Orlando, FL -=- 407-679-6561 (1:363/309)

Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 93 of 423
 From : The Raven                           1:363/309       .pä 29 Hîÿ 95 23:00
 To   : Richard Sarner
 Subj : Highlander:  New Seas
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 TR=> I am one of the self-appointed SME (Subject Matter Experts) on
 TR=> FidoNet (the others are Cindy Shettle and Mark Jones).

 RS> This implies that there are only three. In fact, there are at least
 RS> two  others who are outspoken and knowledgeable.

     No, but we are the only three who are *self-appointed* and actually
admit to it.

     Jack Butler



... "Angels can fly because they take themselves lightly."
--- Blue Wave/RA v2.20 [NR]
 * Origin: Forethought BBS -=- Orlando, FL -=- 407-679-6561 (1:363/309)

Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 94 of 423
 From : Ecarey                              1:101/230       .òp 28 Hîÿ 95 12:07
 To   : Starwolf
 Subj : TIME TUNNEL
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
ST>Sure, I'm aware of the blinky-winkies (tm) on the real computers of the sixt
ST>and early seventies.  I used to hang around the computer section of a local
ST>university when I was still in high school and they had them.  Trouble is,
ST>those Allen shows were supposed to take place in the future, but tech had no
ST>improved visibly from that of the days when it was shot.

ST>I still remember the clunky computer with the large panel with the squared
ST>blinky-winkies on the Seaview, for example.

THE TIME TUNNEL was supposedly taking place in 1967. This was only a
couple of years into the future when it first aired, and computers
hadn't changed much by the time 1967 rolled around.

 * OLX 2.1 TD * Backup not found: (A)bort (R)etry (P)anic

--- FLAME v1.0
 * Origin: Withouta Net - Drop In Anytime! - 617/846-5416 (1:101/230)

Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 95 of 423
 From : Andrew A. Bogachew                  2:5030/74       .óá 02 .åê 95 11:03
 To   : Todd Sullivan
 Subj : Re: Casting Pern
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Hi Todd!

  [Tue Nov 28 1995 09:21] Todd Sullivan ==> Keith Stokes

 TS> (and PernNet's creators were),

Sorry - what is the PernNet ?

Óäà÷è!
       /Faust
--- Cêâèø â caïoãax
 * Origin: The Faust Station * 01:00-07:00 MSK * 7-812-145-0518 (2:5030/74)

Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 96 of 423
 From : Boris CDuke                         2:463/2.22      .îí 04 .åê 95 23:45
 To   : Andrew A. Bogachew
 Subj : Casting Pern
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Hi Andrew!

 TS>> (and PernNet's creators were),

 AAB> Sorry - what is the PernNet ?

Dragonriders' private network. :)

 AAB>        /Faust

Bestest, Boris

 * Origin: Imagineering (2:463/2.22)

Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 97 of 423
 From : Jason C Marshall                    1:259/536       .îí 27 Hîÿ 95 14:56
 To   : Anthony Van Deyl
 Subj : Movies and shows
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 JCM>    Yep.  About eight or nine of them plus the main book.
 AVD> who was the author?

   Many different authors.


... Just bring me my coffee, and s-l-o-w-l-y back away.
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.21 [NR]
 * Origin: U.S.S. Proxima = Toronto, Canada (416)265-3867 (1:259/536)

Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 98 of 423
 From : Phill Ash                           1:275/160       .pä 29 Hîÿ 95 07:14
 To   : Shawn Merrow
 Subj : Seaquest 2032
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE 1.1+

 SM> ** News Flash **
 SM> Seaquest 2032 has been cancealed. No reason known.
 SM> Posilbly killed by the Nelsons. Recomnd kill the
 SM> Nelson family. For crimes aginst the science
 SM> fiction audieance.

        Yeah!
        That damned Admiral Nelson has been nothing but a pain in the
        backside ever since *his* submarine show got cancelled.


Your pal:  PhlAsh
... ColinDOS 6.0: Insufficient memory in EGO.EXE ... Load high (Y/N)?
---
 * PhlAshMail 1.0 *
~~~ ReneWave v1.01 [NR]
--- GEcho 1.10+
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Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 99 of 423
 From : Phill Ash                           1:275/160       .pä 29 Hîÿ 95 07:14
 To   : Mark Holtz
 Subj : Upcoming Babylon Five Episodes
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE 1.1+

 MH> BABYLON 5: Episode Information and Spoilers
 MH> By David Strauss & Others (dstrauss@netcom.com, replayer@genie.com)

        Why do you insist on reposting the same thing incessently?


Your pal:  PhlAsh
... CBaker Virus: blinds you in VGA mode and repeats all commmands 3 times.
---
 * PhlAshMail 1.0 *
~~~ ReneWave v1.01 [NR]
--- GEcho 1.10+
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Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 100 of 423
 From : Brent Turcotte                      1:225/330       .cê 26 Hîÿ 95 10:17
 To   : Brandon Wolgast
 Subj : Re: Foundation series?
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 Brandon_W> Woah.... all those for one "big thing?"  And I thought the six
 Brandon_W> Dune books were a lot. <g>  Are they all worth reading? Also,
 Brandon_W> as you and someone else who replied to me noted (I'm sorry I
 Brandon_W> forgot the name.) THe first two Foundation books were written
 Brandon_W> after Foundation, would it be better to read Foundation and the
 Brandon_W> rest in written order or in the chronological order?  ANd
 Brandon_W> Complete Robot is his *FIRST* book in this "big huge" series of
 Brandon_W> things? Does evrything actually tie together or is it so little
 Brandon_W> only the hard core fan would notice it?  I mean thats 17 books...
 Brandon_W> does it all come together in the end? I take it Foundation and
 Brandon_W> Earth then is the last book in the big scheme of things right?

I have only read all the foundation books, so I don't know if they are
all worth reading.  I started reading Foundation through to Foundation
and Earth.  I personally found the story pick up considerably at
Foundation's Edge.  It is probably best to read Foundation and Earth
before you read any of his robot or empire novels, since his robot novels
contain spoilers.  I enjoyed Foundation and Earth because I was entranced
by the idea of finding the long lost planet Earth.

The 'big' series was not intentional.  Asimov wrote some books in
pivotal places so that the series would link.  And I believe they are
still gaps where more novels could go.  The connections between the
robot and empire novels may be more tenous than the connections between
novels in the Foundation series.

Foundation and Earth is the last book in the grand scheme of things.
At this point Asimov made it very difficult for the series to continue.

Did you know that Foundation's Edge and Foundation and Earth were the
only book that Issac Asimov wrote that made the New York Times bestseller
list?  The reason for this is Asimov fans waited 40 years for a sequel
to Second Foundation.  40 years!  During most of the 40 years, Issac
wrote mostly nonfiction books.  My favorites were his science essays.
He has left as much easy to read science books than all the other authors
in the world combined.

--- DLG Pro v1.0/PDQMail v2.60
 * Origin: Fat Agnus - North Bay's BIGGEST BBS! (1:225/330)

Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 101 of 423
 From : Dan Kachoogian                      1:107/953       .îí 27 Hîÿ 95 12:58
 To   : All
 Subj : Fandom in Charlotte, NC?
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
I'm interested in knowing if there is any organized fandom in Charlotte, NC.

Please reply asap, Privately, to GSSFC@CJBBS.COM
or to
Dan Kachoogian at fidonet 1:107/953

Thanks and sorry for the wasted bandwith.

                                                       -Dan

---
 * Origin: The Juice Bar BBS (908) 298-0764 (1:107/953)

Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 102 of 423
 From : Robert Parson                       1:3822/1        .òp 28 Hîÿ 95 16:31
 To   : Shawn Merrow
 Subj : RE: SEAQUEST 2032
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
SHAWN had this to say

 SM> Seaquest 2032 has been cancealed. No reason known.
 SM> Posilbly killed by the Nelsons. Recomnd kill the
 SM> Nelson family. For crimes aginst the science
 SM> fiction audieance.

That's a little drastic, don't you think?  (come to think of it, if a Nielson
family were killed in traffic accident, for instance, it might very well
influence ratings.  Might be something to call the Nielson folks about
sometime)

With the dramatic change in focus and casting each season on Seaquest, it was
hard to keep track of what was going on.  It's really too bad.  It was
starting to be a watchable show (with the exception of the Supertrain
episode).  If I were a network programmer, I probably would have
given it the boot after the first season.

Science Fiction has seldom received big numbers, with the exception of Star
Trek.  It remains a programming niche, and probably will for the forseeable
future.


 * Silver Xpress V4.3 SW23473

--- QScan/PCB v1.17b / 01-0162
 * Origin: Jackalope Junction 501-785-5381 Ft Smith AR (1:3822/1)

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 Msg  : 103 of 423
 From : Scott Sims                          1:3657/2        .ÿò 10 Hîÿ 95 00:27
 To   : Anthony Van Deyl
 Subj : Re: Bat villains
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
julia's got my vote. blah to demi.
in batman forever does the doctor in the asylum remind anyone of the Mad
Hatter? i think he would be perfect for the mad hatter.
--- GAPNet Enhanced
 * Origin: Gator's Junkyard * Anniston, AL * (205)235-2900 (1:3657/2.0)

Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 104 of 423
 From : Piotr W. Cholewa                    2:484/10.6      .åò 09 Hîÿ 95 19:17
 To   : Tommy Kellerman
 Subj : Species
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 Tommy Kellerman wrote in a message to All:

 TK> Does anyone out there know anything about this movie called
 TK> "Species" ? I've heard it's about to be released in Europe
 TK> anytime now;
 TK> has anyone seen it ?

I heven't but there was a special show during Intersection in Glasgow (that was
Worldcon)
    PWC
--- GEcho 1.00
 * Origin: PWC entry (2:484/10.6)

Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 105 of 423
 From : Ken Mayes                           1:393/7         .åò 30 Hîÿ 95 07:47
 To   : All
 Subj : Re: Sorry for eavedropping ...
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
        Another story I heard,


        Sorry can't remember the source, so take it for what it's worth...



        In the mid to late fifties there was a large nuclear waste dumping site
in the Ural mountains. Thousands of tons of nuclear waste were dumped there. One
day the waste concentrations reached such proportions that they achieved
critical mass and detonated destroying the entire facility and polluting a
sizable chunk of countryside.

        For years the Soviets kept the incident secret, however...


        Ten to twenty towns and hamlets which were clearly present on maps for
that year and all years previously suddenly and mysteriously disappeared from
maps made later. Only after the fall of the Soviet Union did the Russians own up
to the accident.



--- CNet/3
 * Origin: The Bard's Tavern Denton, TX (817)243-5110 USR 28.8   (1:393/7)

Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 106 of 423
 From : ROBERT LIDGREN                      1:134/10        .pä 29 Hîÿ 95 22:09
 To   : KAREN RODGERS
 Subj : X-FILES
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
-> RL> Perhaps the very toughest thing for any top-notcxh series to do
-> is RL> keep their STORIES at a high level of excellence week after
-> week.  I RL> think, on the whole, though, X-Files has many more
-> "hits" than misses.
-> Perhaps, but the "ick" factor has been pretty high lately.

I certainly agree - especially the espisode which revolved around the
abduction and torment of the your girl!  This episode was VERY TOUGH for
me to watch although, I suppose, the material was handled in a powerful
way.  Being a parent with a son and daughter, I must admit that the
victimization of children will NEVER be "entertaining" for me.

Gee, I haven't been following Babylon 5 much recently.  In what sense
have you found the series to be coninually improving (always interested
in the source of these comments from you).

Cheers,

-Rob

PS.  How would you rate the first episodes this season on X-Files?  Is
it a drop in "quality" or more a disappointment in the subject matter
that Chris Carter has chosen?

   ====================================================================
   | Robert Lidgren at: * THE INNER SANCTUM | * The Old Viking        |
   |                    * Writer, Teacher   | * Seeker of the Truth   |
   |  LOGICAL SOLUTIONS - BEST CALGARY BBS AND INTERNET SERVICE!      |
   | e-mail me at------------> robert.lidgren@bbs.logicnet.com        |
   | My Personal Web Site----> http://www.logicnet.com/robert.lidgren |
   ====================================================================
--- PCBoard 15.2
 * Origin: 32 lines 40 Gig BBS, Realtime InterNet SLIP (403)299-9900 (1:134/10)

Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 107 of 423
 From : ROBERT LIDGREN                      1:134/10        .pä 29 Hîÿ 95 22:17
 To   : MICHAEL HARPER
 Subj : KUBRICK COMMENTS
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
BRAVO!  Re: your comments about Stanley Kubrick!

Genius-level work often emanates from those with big egos.  So what!  I
wonder why the person you replied to ever felt Kubrick believed he could
"do no wrong."  These are ALL unattributed statements.  Ergo, invalid.

Personnally, I think Kubrick's "Dr. Strangeloe" is the quintessential
critique of the Cold War - mosre powerful precisely BECAUSE it is done
using satire.

His "Paths of Glory" is one of the finest anti-war films in the genre.

2001: A Space Odyssey was, for its time (1968) an amazing technical tour
de force.  Sure, it's plot left millions of question but sometimes
that's a very good thing.  Since then science fiction has not explored
such themes about the "ultimate meaning" with anywhere near the
craftsmanship.

I guess what was most unsettling was that the author could stand NO
DIFFERENCE OF OPINION from others.  Sometimes it is a good thing that
there is a degree of ambiguity in life and that because someone
disagrees with you does not necessarily mean they are idots.

Cheers,

-Rob

   ====================================================================
   | Robert Lidgren at: * THE INNER SANCTUM | * The Old Viking        |
   |                    * Writer, Teacher   | * Seeker of the Truth   |
   |  LOGICAL SOLUTIONS - BEST CALGARY BBS AND INTERNET SERVICE!      |
   | e-mail me at------------> robert.lidgren@bbs.logicnet.com        |
   | My Personal Web Site----> http://www.logicnet.com/robert.lidgren |
   ====================================================================
--- PCBoard 15.2
 * Origin: 32 lines 40 Gig BBS, Realtime InterNet SLIP (403)299-9900 (1:134/10)

Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 108 of 423
 From : Steven Wesen                        1:271/236       .åò 30 Hîÿ 95 08:51
 To   : Nancy Crockett
 Subj : Re: red dwarf
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE 1.11+
Well not to give anything away on all the plot line but Kryton returns, Lister
is still Lister, Cat's wardrobe gets wierder and Holly becomes a Woman.
the next year series 5 Rimmer becomes a Hard light Hologram and the Red Dwarf is
Sapcejacked leaving Lister,Cat,Kryton and Rimmer on Starbug chasing after the
Elusive Red one.
 Ican not tell anymore than that because you have to see them for yourself to
enjoy them.

Steve.


Lister did the box they found you in it have painting instructions?

--- GEcho 1.11+
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Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 109 of 423
 From : Steven Wesen                        1:271/236       .åò 30 Hîÿ 95 09:00
 To   : Robert Parson
 Subj : Re: RE: SEAQUEST 2032
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE 1.11+
Crimes against Sciece Fiction? you call Seaquest good Science Fiction ?
I needed to Die Before it could Reproduce.
I feel for someone who feels it nessary to wish Death on people who had good
taste.
Sequest is the 90's version of Voyage to the Botttom of the Sea and formula
shows like that usualy do not last that long.


Seaquest is dead long live Sliders.

--- GEcho 1.11+
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Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 110 of 423
 From : Owen E. Oulton                      1:243/45        .åò 30 Hîÿ 95 05:47
 To   : Jon Roth
 Subj : Re: canadian stuff
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 JR>         Im not sure where Forever Knight is based.
 JR> Does anyone know if it is Canadian or not?

Rather...  It's not only filmed in Toronto, but actually set there!  The credit
show the SkyDome and the CN Tower, and references are constantly being made to
local streets and cities.

CFN, O

--- Maximus 2.01wb
 * Origin: Pandora's Box, Ottawa, Ont. 613-829-1209 (1:243/45)

Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 111 of 423
 From : Brion Lienhart                      1:213/700.2     .åò 30 Hîÿ 95 08:06
 To   : Robert Parson
 Subj : RE: SEAQUEST 2032
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On Tue Nov 28, Robert Parson said to Shawn Merrow:

 -RP>Science Fiction has seldom received big numbers, with the exception of
 -RP>Star
 -RP>Trek.  It remains a programming niche, and probably will for the
 -RP>forseeable
 -RP>future.

That's because TV producers make lousy SF. They think that a show will draw a
big audience if it has flashy special effects, and big name stars. Never mind
that the shows don't make sense, have bad plots, and worse science. If it's bad
SF, it's bad TV.




--- QM v1.31
 * Origin: Ministry of Peace - Carson City, NV (1:213/700.2)

Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 112 of 423
 From : Richard Sarner                      1:271/236       .åò 30 Hîÿ 95 09:36
 To   : Nancy Crockett
 Subj : Re: Highlander
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE 1.11+
In a message to Richard Sarner <11-28-95 22:50> Nancy Crockett wrote:

NC=>      I did not know about the Highlander echo, I will try to look for
NC=> it. I have never heard of Arkham Asylum. If you have any other info,

Tell your sysop, they will know how to link to the echo.

...Richard

--- GEcho 1.11+
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Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 113 of 423
 From : Dan Kachoogian                      1:107/953       .pä 29 Hîÿ 95 07:36
 To   : Shawn Merrow
 Subj : Re: Seaquest 2032
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
*** Quoting Shawn Merrow to All ***

SM> Seaquest 2032 has been cancealed. No reason known.
SM> Posilbly killed by the Nelsons. Recomnd kill the
SM> Nelson family. For crimes aginst the science
SM> fiction audieance.

Couldn't be that they ran out of plots, could it?

                                                       -Dan

---
 * Origin: The Juice Bar BBS (908) 298-0764 (1:107/953)

Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 114 of 423
 From : Ritchie Funk                        1:140/122       .åò 30 Hîÿ 95 13:11
 To   : Anne Hardcastle
 Subj : Re: Gibson
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: FastEcho 1.45 10246

-=> Quoting Anne Hardcastle to All <=-

 AH> I have listened to an abridged version of virtual light on tape and
 AH> an unabridged version of Neuromancer on tape read by the author.
 AH> Neuromancer was just fabulous.  I was constantly in shock at his
 AH> ability to make technology into poetry and to blend the bits and
 AH> pieces of ultra-urban culture with the best of international issues.
 AH> The interesting thing to me, is how PLAUSIBLE these novels seem.  I am
 AH> very impressed by his work.
 AH> I think he was the one who first coined the term cyberspace, am I
 AH> right?

Yes, Gibson is one of the pioneers of cyber culture. I've only read
Neuromancer and it was great. I've plan to read more of his but I
haven't gotten around to it yet. Have you seen the movie 'Johnny
Mnenomic'. I heard it wasn't too well received by the critics.


                   <<< Greetings from TEROK NOR >>>

... ASCII stupid question, get a stupid ANSI.
--- Blue Wave/RA v2.20 [NR]
 * Origin: The Edge:Your Gaming BBS 306-382-7049, 7039, 7038 (1:140/122)

Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 115 of 423
 From : Jeff Hancock                        1:3600/7        .ÿò 24 Hîÿ 95 21:14
 To   : The Raven
 Subj : B5 VS. TREK, AGAIN.
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

TR> JH> That's TV Guide, which I don't read. I was talking about
TR> JH>Entertainment Weekly.
TR>     You were speaking about the media paying attention.  TV Guide is
TR>part of the media.

Yes, but you *took* my comments referring to EW, and *replied* to them
as if I were talking about TV Guide. If that was an oversight, then
fine. If, on the other hand, it was done *just* to make a "successful"
counter-argument... then we have nothing further to "discuss".

By the way, the last EW had in-depth reviews on Xena and Baywatch
Nights. But I thought Ecarey was saying the media tended to overlook
syndicated offerings... Maybe if B5 spawns a sequal as well? ;)

TR> JH> But while we're on the subject, I also recently heard that TV
TR> JH>Guide wasn't giving it any sort of description, just listing the
TR> JH>name and time. This was according to someone in the B5 echo, who
TR> JH>was gleefully posting that FINALLY they were giving it a
TR> JH>description (it was about an alien probe, "A Day in the Strife").

TR>     Actually, I have several old TV guides.  (Why?  None of your
TR>business <G>).

No further questions, Mr. Castanza.

TR>  And I've been reading descriptions of B5 episodes since at least
TR>the middle of season one.

I think the person may have said something about how they used to, but
then they stopped for no reason. Can you verify that?

Anyway, I was unable to see any possible motive in his lying about it,
given what he said and how he said it, so unless they're printing two
different copies I'm inclined to believe him. If, on the other hand,
yours HAS had descriptions SINCE the middle of the first season... well,
I'm unqualified to comment either way since I don't and haven't been
reading it.

-=-
 * Crazy-J * Love to but..I'm attending the opening of my garage door.

--- SLMAIL v3.5C  (#1540)
 * Origin: Robotech þ Lake City's Music*Demo BBS þ [904] 758*9477 (1:3600/7)

Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 116 of 423
 From : Jeff Hancock                        1:3600/7        .cê 26 Hîÿ 95 19:40
 To   : All
 Subj : non-Strife spoil & Keffer
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Okay, I've got a non-spoiler question about "A Day in the Strife" and an
item of possible notice for all you Keffer fans out there.

The station here seemed to cut to commercial a little early at one
point, when the probe first shows up and they send out a droid to
investigate it. There's a pan of the probe flying toward the station,
that fades halfway straight into a commercial with practically no break
in between. Was there any more to this scene, any dialogue, was the
investigating droid interfered with? I was half-expecting it to be
destroyed, but I guess that didn't happen.

And as for Keffer, I was just recently trying out the demo for Wing
Commander 4 from the Computer Gaming World CD-ROM this month (I believe
it's also included with Computer Gaming Review) and I'm nearly positive
that one of the actors is the one who plays Keffer in B5. He's shown
twice in the video clips and the longer one has him holding a knife to
Mark Hamill's throat. So, those fans of him that are out there may want
to pick up WC4 when it comes out, if you can run it.

-=-
 * Crazy-J * "Give me two personal pronouns."  "Who, me?"

--- SLMAIL v3.5C  (#1540)
 * Origin: Robotech þ Lake City's Music*Demo BBS þ [904] 758*9477 (1:3600/7)

Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 117 of 423
 From : David Reffitt                       1:280/341       .åò 30 Hîÿ 95 08:35
 To   : Jon Roth
 Subj : Re: canadian stuff
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Yes. Forever Knight is filmed in Vancouver, BC.


---
 * Origin: Beyond the Pale 913-384-1577 (1:280/341)

Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 118 of 423
 From : Nicolai Shapero                     1:102/524       .åò 30 Hîÿ 95 20:43
 To   : Chris Ogniben
 Subj : Nuclear space drives
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Nov 28 10:13>, Chris Ogniben (1:2604/568) wrote to Tommy Kellerman:

 CO>black hole.  So, there probably won't be inter stellar travel.

There are lots of simple, straightforward, theoretically possible (but currently
engineeringly difficult) methods for interstellar travel.  I would suggest that
you check out a book by Dr. Robert L. Forward entitled INDISTINGUISHABLE FROM
MAGIC.  (Title based on Clarke's third law, "Any sufficiently advanced
technology is indistinguishable from magic".)

-- Nicolai Shapero, the Mad Russian Sysop of StormGate Aerie


--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 119 of 423
 From : Ed Brannin                          1:2613/135      .pä 29 Hîÿ 95 17:38
 To   : David Little
 Subj : Re: red dwarf
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 -=> Quoting David Little to Ed Brannin <=-

 DL> @PID: BWTAG 3.05 [Eval]
 DL> @MSGID: 1:106/7315.0 30af7551
 DL> -=<( Ed Brannin used the Jedi Mind Trick on me! )>=-

 EB> anyone here like red dwarf?

 DL> Yo!! Whatcha wanna converse about?!?

 DL> -=The DoLittle 8-)=-

 DL> ... "Are you sure your sanity chip is fully in?" -- Kryten
 DL> -!- FreeMail & Blue Wave/TAG v2.21

 DL>  ! Origin: The Wizard's Realm ** (713) 946-7315 ** (1:106/7315)

 nnothing much.  u see last episode on pbs channel 21?  i forgot 2 tape it.


... ******  "Welcome To Hell, Here's Your Copy of Windows '95." -Satin
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

--- QScan/PCB v1.18b / 01-0527
 * Origin: Wise BBS - Irondequoit, NY (1:2613/135)

Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 120 of 423
 From : Ed Brannin                          1:2613/135      .pä 29 Hîÿ 95 17:38
 To   : Steven Wesen
 Subj : Re: red dwarf
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 -=> Quoting Steven Wesen to Ed Brannin <=-

 SW> @MSGID: 1:271/236 30AAF02E
 SW> @TID: GE 1.11+
 SW> What would you like to talk about? there are plenty Dwarfers here.
 SW> Steve
 SW> His opposite is a dog.


 just wondering.

... _..L
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12


--- QScan/PCB v1.18b / 01-0527
 * Origin: Wise BBS - Irondequoit, NY (1:2613/135)

Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 121 of 423
 From : Ed Brannin                          1:2613/135      .pä 29 Hîÿ 95 17:38
 To   : Nicolai Shapero
 Subj : Re: red dwarf
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 -=> Quoting Nicolai Shapero to Ed Brannin <=-

 NS> You quoted an entire message, origin line and tag lines included.
 NS> This is an overuse of the quote function.  Please restrict your quoting
 NS> to relevant portions of the message quoted ONLY.
 NS> Thank you for your cooperation,

 sorry!  i use blue wave, if i quote it does the whole thing.  this
 ok?  i know, i could just delete it.  i'll try to remove a bit more.


... TOLAST  Danger, @from@!  Off-topic messages!  Danger!
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

--- QScan/PCB v1.18b / 01-0527
 * Origin: Wise BBS - Irondequoit, NY (1:2613/135)

Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 122 of 423
 From : Marc Zingarelli                     1:226/110       .ÿò 01 .åê 95 12:56
 To   : Karmin St.jean
 Subj : Stan Putterman the Q
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12  92-0004
Karmin St.Jean was overheard talking to Marc Zingarelli,
about Stan Putterman the Q, in "Joe's Place" and said:

KS> > Gary Graham who played Sikes played in another episode called Cold
KS> > Fire
KS> > dealing with Kess's psychokinetic powers and the caretakers
KS> > companion.


KS>Not Gary Graham, Gerrit Graham. And there was no Sikes in TerrorVision!
KS>There was Stan Putterman, the TV Repairman who wasn't named, the
KS>Putterman's daughter, the son, the grandfather, a swinging couple who were
KS>greek in more ways than one, Medusa, an alien named Plutar of the planet
KS>Pluton, the hungry beast, and the daughter's boyfriend O.D. ("Irish boy?"
KS>-Stan Putterman).

Gary Graham played Detective Sikes on the Alien Nation T.V. series.  He also
is in Voyager this season.  Different person but the names sound familiar
enough to confuse some people.

Later
    ---
 LT MARC ZINGARELLI
 Circleville Fire Department
 Local 1232
 Internet:  marc.zingarelli@tcr.com


 * OLX 1.52 * "Bother", said Pooh as he loaded his last round.

--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12
 * Origin: The Computer Room-Pickerington, Oh (614)861-8377  (1:226/110.0)

Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 123 of 423
 From : Marc Zingarelli                     1:226/110       .ÿò 01 .åê 95 13:19
 To   : The Raven
 Subj : Quickening effects
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12  92-0004
The Raven was overheard talking to Night Breed,
about Quickening effects, in "Joe's Place" and said:

TR>     Adrian Paul was in the short-lived "War of the World" series, the
TR>film "Love Potion #9", and has done some soap opera work.

I new he was in Love Potion #9 but could never prove it!  His name wasn't in
the credits was it? Or did he used to act under a different name?

Later
    ---
 LT MARC ZINGARELLI
 Circleville Fire Department
 Local 1232
 Internet:  marc.zingarelli@tcr.com


 * OLX 1.52 * "Boredom is the curse of immortality."

--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12
 * Origin: The Computer Room-Pickerington, Oh (614)861-8377  (1:226/110.0)

Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 124 of 423
 From : Mark David                          1:243/86        .åò 30 Hîÿ 95 20:22
 To   : Robert Lidgren
 Subj : Re: nuclear
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

RL> I tend to look even more seriously at solar power, wind power and tidal
RL> power as nifty alternatives too.  Giant HYDRO projects simply won't fill

Solar and wind power have been attempted in large-scale and they are failures.

Nuclear power is the most cost-effective and nearly the safest.

 * Origin: °±²Û Electron Castle (613) 824-5074 Û²±° (1:243/86)

Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 125 of 423
 From : Chris Banakos                       1:132/166       .åò 30 Hîÿ 95 20:40
 To   : David Little
 Subj : red dwarf
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
hi daivid
my name is chris banakos what is red dwarf?
from chris



--- GEcho 1.00
 * Origin: George's Place BBS (603)635-3738  (1:132/166)

Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 126 of 423
 From : Todd Sullivan                       1:202/720.3     .åò 30 Hîÿ 95 11:05
 To   : Kevin Ahearn
 Subj : awesome epic
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Whilst falling into the sun on 28 Nov 95, Kevin Ahearn yelled to me:

 TS>> You're just now discovering that?  Wait'll you read
 TS>> Vol.2, and the next set that involve Merlin.

 TS>> Trumps Of Doom.
 TS>> Blood Of Amber
 TS>> Sign Of Chaos
 TS>> Knight of Shadows

 TS>> Todd Sullivan

 KA> Woops!  You forgot the last book in that series, _Prince of Chaos_

I knew I'd forgotten one.  That's why it wasn't there.

Todd Sullivan

... "Words pay no debts." --Shakespeare

-*- ASTG 1.9

--- Spot 1.3a Unregistered
 * Origin: Todd's Spot in the Continuum (1:202/720.3)

Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 127 of 423
 From : Todd Sullivan                       1:202/720.3     .åò 30 Hîÿ 95 11:07
 To   : Jon Roth
 Subj : canadian stuff
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Whilst falling into the sun on 28 Nov 95, Jon Roth yelled to All:

 JR>         Im not sure where Forever Knight is based.  Does anyone know if
 JR> it is Canadian or not?

Yes it is; it's based and set in Calgary, Alberta.

Todd Sullivan

... Be excellent to each other & party on, dudes.

-*- ASTG 1.9

--- Spot 1.3a Unregistered
 * Origin: Todd's Spot in the Continuum (1:202/720.3)

Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 128 of 423
 From : Anne Hardcastle                     1:393/7         .ÿò 01 .åê 95 21:39
 To   : Ritchie Funk
 Subj : Re: Gibson
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
I went to see the movie Johnny Mnemonic, when we went there were only two other
people in the theatre!!   It was pretty good if you are a fan of his stuff and
do alot of filling in the holes.  The visual representation of the world he
describes in the novels is for me very nice.  The plot of the entire story is a
bit goofy and our pal Mr. Wooden Actor Keanu is not the best.  Some of it I
liked alot, and some was bad (I guess that's true with all movies, huh?).  Check
it out, if you like WG at all it is worth $3 to rent the video.
--- CNet/3
 * Origin: The Bard's Tavern Denton, TX (817)243-5110 USR 28.8   (1:393/7)

Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 129 of 423
 From : Chris Ogniben                       1:2604/568      .åò 30 Hîÿ 95 10:14
 To   : Mark Jones
 Subj : Quickening effects
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

   Yeah, but, how about this one.  I can see why actors and actresses
can either gain success, or not gaining success, if they leave the
current tv series they working on.  Now, your probably right, that many
actors and actresses would probably not give up their tv series, so if
a movie deal don't work out.  They got something to come back to, and
have a paycheck.  But, there is another point i like to bring up on
this subject.  And that is, most actors and actresses shouldn't move to
movies by their choice.  I mean, i think they should stick it out, with
the tv series until someone makes a decision that would be good for
their future in movies.  Now, the series Strange Luck.  The actor that
plays Chance Harper.. He been jumping around, and i think he was in a
few movies, and now he says he is happy to  be with a series.. Depsite
the hard work.. Since, it works better for him.  But, Tasha Yar, Denise
Crosby.  Apparently gained her fortune and whatever fame, from
appearing in playboy magazine.  And, then star trek, and then she
disappeared, but, now shows up now and the on sitcoms and half an hour
shows.  But, she is still trying hard to stay in the spot light.  So,
not all actors would fail to benefit from leaving the tv series they
were on in the first place.  Apparently when it comes to tv, and
movies.  The best choice is probably tv.  But, when you always have a
chance to make millions in a picture, than a television series.   That
i would go for it.. But, perhaps you should show some sort of
restraint, and alertness.  So, if the movie deal works or not works..
You always have the ability to return to whatever that you feel made
you a success.


--- WM v3.11/93-0947
 * Origin: Waterside BBS - NJ - (201) 641-5375 28.8k  (1:2604/568)

Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 130 of 423
 From : Todd Sullivan                       1:202/720.3     .ÿò 01 .åê 95 09:34
 To   : Chris Ogniben
 Subj : Nuclear space drives
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Whoa, Cool!  Chris Ogniben and Tommy Kellerman are inna cat fight about "Nuclear
space drives"!

 CO>
 CO>    There are no wormholes in real space.  There are Black Holes, but,
 CO> even those would tear a ship apart, since nothing can go through a
 CO> black hole.  So, there probably won't be inter stellar travel.

That applies to static black holes; thr real model is for rotating ones.

Get a copy of "A Brief History Of Time" by Steven Hawking.  You'll get the
straight story behind the theory, rather than hearsay from some high-school
"science whiz".

As for not being interstellar travel, it's a moot point at this time; we don't
have the unified field theory, which will be definitive.  About as definitive as
the idea that antimatter couldn't possibly exist...

Todd Sullivan

... "Were't not for laughing I should pity him." --Shakespeare

-*- ASTG 1.9

--- Spot 1.3a Unregistered
 * Origin: Todd's Spot in the Continuum (1:202/720.3)

Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 131 of 423
 From : Todd Sullivan                       1:202/720.3     .ÿò 01 .åê 95 09:35
 To   : David Cougle
 Subj : awesome epic
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Whoa, Cool!  David Cougle and me are inna cat fight about "awesome epic"!

 DC> I read that, I am know on trumps of doom.  I don't like merlin being
 DC> the narrator as much as Corwin.

Merlin's not narrating, he's telling his story, as Corwin did his before him.

Todd Sullivan

... "It all hinges on your definition of `a good time'."

-*- ASTG 1.9

--- Spot 1.3a Unregistered
 * Origin: Todd's Spot in the Continuum (1:202/720.3)

Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 132 of 423
 From : Shawn Merrow                        1:3407/14       .óá 02 .åê 95 01:01
 To   : The Raven
 Subj : Immortals List  1
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
I saw youre Imorrtal list. Impresvive I tip my hat to you.

--- QScan/PCB v1.16b / 01-0024
 * Origin:  (1:3407/14)

Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 133 of 423
 From : Shawn Merrow                        1:3407/14       .óá 02 .åê 95 01:26
 To   : All
 Subj : Sci-Fi TV
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
The main reson I am upset with the Nelson ratings is it allows a very
small and narrow audience control whats on tv. If it isnt a mindless
sitcom it dosent get ratings and it gets cancealed. All Sci-Fi shows
have fought the ratings they usally lose (Star Trek: TOS). I have
also noticed that in replys to my first post complain that Seaquest
2032 isnt Scientfic enough for them. I want to take an impromtu survy
on this. The question is.

1. How many of you would be willing to watch a show where it 5 to 10
hours of air time showing debates, meetings, conferances, and large
amounts of lab work to solve just a basic problem. And rember when this
is going on you going have problems with brusied egos and other problems
between the personel.

Real science is a slow and painstaken process. It require a large amount
of work. This is not glamories or entertaing. The only pepole who woldnt
go into a come instanly are the pepole whoes profesion is being showed.
Here is an example on the steps to write a computer program from a
computer programing course.
1. Defining the problem (why you need it)
2. Defining the solution (how to do it)
3. Mapping the soultion (making flowcharts)
4. Codding the program (writing the program)
5. Debugging the program (fixing mistakes)
6. Documenting the program (writing how to use it)
7. Updating the Program (finshing the program)
I'm a computer programmer and I wouldnt want to watch this on a Sci-Fi
show if they did it by the book. The best you can hope for on tv is
specultive Science Fiction. Most fans will envatualy branch out into
harder science fiction and science. Becuse of this I think that Sci-Fi
should do there best to support Sci-Fi tv.

P.S. By the way Jay Leno was apparitly wrong on the death of Seaquest
2032 its gone from its time slot for two weeks. Its listed in TV Guide
on 12-06-1995 with a new episode. Give it another try and try just to
enjoy it and not nitpick it. Who knows the next J. Questo (sorry dont
know how to spell hes name for sure) may be inspired by Seaquest 2032.

-- Who stole my internal spll checker.

--- QScan/PCB v1.16b / 01-0024
 * Origin:  (1:3407/14)

Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 134 of 423
 From : Shawn Merrow                        1:3407/14       .óá 02 .åê 95 01:30
 To   : All
 Subj : Last Message
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
I left a word out of my laste message sorry.
I think Sci-Fi (fans) should support Sci-Fi tv.

--- QScan/PCB v1.16b / 01-0024
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 Msg  : 135 of 423
 From : Paul Goverts                        1:2613/135      .åò 30 Hîÿ 95 17:43
 To   : Nancy Crockett
 Subj : red dwarf
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

-=> Quoting Nancy Crockett to Paul Goverts <=-

 NC> Thanks for the info, Paul. I was just writing to Steven Wesen
 NC> about how I have some catching up to do. I have only seen the first 3
 NC> or 4 years. I sorta thought that what they had on the sattelite was
 NC> reruns, but I guess I should have made more effort to tune in. Where
 NC> have you been watching it?

I have been watching it on our local PBS station, where they've been
showing it for a while...  It took them a while to show seasons 4-5
compared to other places in the US, but they showed Season 6 about a
year after it came out in England.

Paul

... "What?!? This isn't the Files section?!?"


--- QScan/PCB v1.18b / 01-0527
 * Origin: Wise BBS - Irondequoit, NY (1:2613/135)

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 Msg  : 136 of 423
 From : David Hilling                       1:262/32        .ÿò 01 .åê 95 13:56
 To   : Myra I Fox
 Subj : Terry Pratchett
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Quoting Myra I Fox to David Hilling:

 MIF> But now I can't find the silly order form <sigh>.  Maybe Jym hid it...
 MIF> he thinks I spend way too much money on books  :-)


"When I have a little money, I buy books. If there is any left over, I
spend it on food and shelter." - Erasmus



... Nothin' left to do but smile, smile, smile. - Garcia/Hunter
---
 À Blue Wave/DOS v2.21 [NR] À
--- Renegade v10-05 Exp
 * Origin: The Gallifrey BBS * 614-867-2812,,77 * Zoom 28.8k (1:262/32)

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 Msg  : 137 of 423
 From : David Hilling                       1:262/32        .ÿò 01 .åê 95 13:56
 To   : Steen Christensen
 Subj : books
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Quoting Steen Christensen to Meredith Billington:

 SC> 09 Oct 95, sammensatte Meredith Billington til All:

 MB> What are your favorite Science Fiction/Fantasy books?

 SC> I bet you got a lot of response on this msg. but anyway here are some
 SC> of my favorite series/writers :

 <several entries deleted>

 SC> Julian May

 Good stuff, huh? I thought for a while I was the only one reading her work.
 Do you think her publishers will EVER release Magnificat? I've been
 following this series since The Many Colored Land and I really want to know
 how it ends, dammit.

... "I promise to take good care of your cat."  - SchrÀdinger
---
 À Blue Wave/DOS v2.21 [NR] À
--- Renegade v10-05 Exp
 * Origin: The Gallifrey BBS * 614-867-2812,,77 * Zoom 28.8k (1:262/32)

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 Msg  : 138 of 423
 From : Frank Swarbrick                     1:104/825       .åò 30 Hîÿ 95 23:43
 To   : Shawn Merrow
 Subj : Seaquest 2032
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12  92-0022
On 11-24-95  23:36 Ambassador Shawn Merrow of the Minbari Federation said:

 SM> ** News Flash **
 SM> Seaquest 2032 has been cancealed. No reason known.
 SM> Posilbly killed by the Nelsons. Recomnd kill the
 SM> Nelson family. For crimes aginst the science
 SM> fiction audieance.

Hmm, many would say that seaQuest was a crime against the science
fiction audience...

        Frank

... "I'm a doctor, not a botanist" --Bashir
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12
 * Origin: The Bailey Information Exchange BBS, 28.8k v.fc  (1:104/825.0)

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 Msg  : 139 of 423
 From : Frank Swarbrick                     1:104/825       .åò 30 Hîÿ 95 23:47
 To   : Jon Roth
 Subj : Re: canadian stuff
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12  92-0022
On 11-28-95  13:27 Ambassador Jon Roth of the Minbari Federation said:

 JR> Im not sure where Forever Knight is based.  Does anyone know
 JR> if it is Canadian or not?

Forever Knight takes place in Toronto, Ontario, where it is shot as
well.  The main producers are American.  The actors, I'm not sure if
they're American or Canadian.  Certainly many of the guest stars are
Canadian.  I believe the guy who played Schanke is American, as I've
seen him in a few American TV shows.  The others, I dunno...

        Frank

... How much does it cost to get your soul dry cleaned these days?
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12
 * Origin: The Bailey Information Exchange BBS, 28.8k v.fc  (1:104/825.0)

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 Msg  : 140 of 423
 From : Frank Swarbrick                     1:104/825       .åò 30 Hîÿ 95 23:54
 To   : All
 Subj : 3rd Stone From The Sun
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12  92-0022
Does anyone have any idea what this new comedy Third Stone From The
Sun (I think that's the name) is all about?  I know it stars John
Lithgow and has something to do with aliens on Earth, but that's about
it.

Interesting that when TV Guide mentioned it during the summer there
was no mention that it was a half-hour comedy.  I just started
watching Red Dwarf recently and the whole idea of a science fiction
based comedy series kind of blew my mind.  (Dunno why.)  And now
there's going to be another.

Let's hope for the best.

        Frank

... "I'm being nibbled to death by--cats" --Londo Mollari
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12
 * Origin: The Bailey Information Exchange BBS, 28.8k v.fc  (1:104/825.0)

Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 141 of 423
 From : Robert Parson                       1:3822/1        .óá 02 .åê 95 15:55
 To   : Steven Wesen
 Subj : RE: SEAQUEST 2032
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
STEVEN had this to say

 SW> Crimes against Sciece Fiction? you call Seaquest good Science Fiction ?

No.  I said it was getting watchable.  In much the same way that Married,
with Children is watchable.

If you'll remember, I also said I would have cancelled it after the first
year.

 SW> Seaquest is dead long live Sliders.

If we're REALLY lucky, AlienNation will return as a weekly series.  (at least
two more movies are scheduled)

 * Silver Xpress V4.3 SW23473

--- QScan/PCB v1.17b / 01-0162
 * Origin: Jackalope Junction 501-785-5381 Ft Smith AR (1:3822/1)

Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 142 of 423
 From : Robert Parson                       1:3822/1        .óá 02 .åê 95 15:55
 To   : Brion Lienhart
 Subj : RE: SEAQUEST 2032
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
BRION had this to say

 BL> That's because TV producers make lousy SF. They think that a show will
 BL> draw a big audience if it has flashy special effects, and big name
 BL> stars. Never mind that the shows don't make sense, have bad plots, and
 BL> worse science. If it's bad SF, it's bad TV.

Babylon 5 is proving on a consistant basis that adult SF can be produced for
tv.   AlienNation, and Twilight Zone are all shining examples of what CAN be
done.  The Science Fiction label is irrelevant.  If it's bad drama, it's bad
TV, and it's bad SF.

Seaquest failed mainly because each team of producers (a different set each
season!) were clueless, not just about SF, but about the direction of the
show.  They didn't know where to go, so they went nowhere.  And NBC took it
on the chin for three years before they finally got clued in.

An example of an SF show that was never allowed to follow through on it's
promises because it was cut short was, of all things, Space Rangers.  I'm not
going to jump through hoops to defend Space Rangers, but it did have a focus
and it had a goofiness that I came to appreciate.

 * Silver Xpress V4.3 SW23473

--- QScan/PCB v1.17b / 01-0162
 * Origin: Jackalope Junction 501-785-5381 Ft Smith AR (1:3822/1)

Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 143 of 423
 From : Brion Lienhart                      1:213/700.2     .óá 02 .åê 95 09:01
 To   : ROBERT LIDGREN
 Subj : KUBRICK COMMENTS
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On Wed Nov 29, ROBERT LIDGREN said to MICHAEL HARPER:

 -RL>Personnally, I think Kubrick's "Dr. Strangeloe" is the quintessential
 -RL>critique of the Cold War - mosre powerful precisely BECAUSE it is done
 -RL>using satire.

I like to do a Dr. Strangelove, Fail Safe double feature sometimes.



--- QM v1.31
 * Origin: Ministry of Peace - Carson City, NV (1:213/700.2)

Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 144 of 423
 From : Brion Lienhart                      1:213/700.2     .óá 02 .åê 95 09:36
 To   : Todd Sullivan
 Subj : Nuclear space drives
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On Fri Dec 01, Todd Sullivan said to Chris Ogniben:

 CO>
 CO>    There are no wormholes in real space.  There are Black Holes, but,
 CO> even those would tear a ship apart, since nothing can go through a
 CO> black hole.  So, there probably won't be inter stellar travel.

 -TS>That applies to static black holes; thr real model is for rotating
 -TS>ones.

 -TS>Get a copy of "A Brief History Of Time" by Steven Hawking.  You'll get
 -TS>the straight story behind the theory, rather than hearsay from some
 -TS>high-school "science whiz".

Robert Forward's _Indistinguishable from Magic_ has a chapter on black holes,
and rotating black holes, and wormholes, and stuff. He doesn't have any
equations, but does a fairly good job of explaining the theory.



--- QM v1.31
 * Origin: Ministry of Peace - Carson City, NV (1:213/700.2)

Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 145 of 423
 From : Will Morgan                         1:3819/128.103  .óá 02 .åê 95 18:53
 To   : All
 Subj : Sci-Fi A.E.G.'s now for Windows & OS/2 PM!
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Attention Sci-Fi fans who use DOS, OS/2 and Windows: I've released a
series of DOS/DOS4GW, OS/2 and Windows programs that may be of interest
to you! They're called "Automated Episode Guides" because they make it
easy to sift through the info for each episode of various popular Sci-Fi
and pop culture TV shows. Currently, there are SEVERAL different A.E.G.'s
available as described below, but I will be releasing more in the future.

What they are: The OS/2 version is a 32 bit text mode menu-driven program
that automates the process of viewing information on popular television shows.
The DOS versions are 32 bit Extended DOS/DOS4GW text mode programs that are
almost identical to the OS/2 Text version. The 16 bit Windows & 32 bit OS/2
Presentation Manager programs take full advantage of the easy-to-use features
of their respective operating systems (drop-down menus, dialogue boxes, etc.)

The TV shows that are currently available (the final two ##s denote the
current version number which may vary as I release program updates):

                    Filename      Filename     Filename       Filename
TV Show Name    |  32 bit DOS    OS/2 Text      OS/2 PM    16 bit Windows
========================================================================
Mystery Science   MSTDOS##.ZIP  MSTOS2##.ZIP  MST_PM##.ZIP  MSTWIN##.ZIP
Theater 3000
------------------------------------------------------------------------
The X-Files       XFLDOS##.ZIP  XFLOS2##.ZIP  XFL_PM##.ZIP  XFLWIN##.ZIP
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Quantum Leap      QLPDOS##.ZIP  QLPOS2##.ZIP  Coming Soon!  Coming Soon!
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Star Trek:        TNGDOS##.ZIP  TNGOS2##.ZIP  Coming Soon!  Coming Soon!
Next Generation
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Star Trek:        TOSDOS##.ZIP  TOSOS2##.ZIP  TOS_PM##.ZIP  TOSWIN##.ZIP
Original Series
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Deep Space 9      DS9DOS##.ZIP  DS9OS2##.ZIP  DS9_PM##.ZIP  DS9WIN##.ZIP
------------------------------------------------------------------------
The Simpsons      SMPDOS##.ZIP  SMPOS2##.ZIP  Coming Soon!  Coming Soon!
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Babylon 5         BA5DOS##.ZIP  BA5OS2##.ZIP  BA5_PM##.ZIP  BA5WIN##.ZIP
========================================================================
Where you can get them: The OS/2 Text & PM versions are available on the
FTP sites ftp.cdrom.com & hobbes.nmsu.edu (paths may vary since the files
are moved after verification).

The DOS versions are available from the huge SimTel DOS software FTP
sites and their mirror sites, such as ftp.coast.net under the path
/SimTel/msdos/entertn

The Windows versions will also be available from the SimTel sites, such
as ftp.coast.net under the path /SimTel/win3/entertn

*ALL* versions are available on the FTP site at clover.cleaf.com, which
is where I release all Snake-Byte programs. This site is a bit primitive
and can only handle a small amount of FTPs at one time, so if you can't
get on, try back later. The path is /pub/mst3k/snake-byte (for the MST3K
programs) and /pub/mst3k/snake-byte/NON-MST3K (for all others, look for
the filenames listed above).

Fidonet BBS's that carry the various Snake-Byte Inc. A.E.G.'s follow.
Please Note: The "Official" Fido Snake-Byte Inc. file site is X-Capade
BBS. *ALL* Snake-Byte Inc. programs are available from this site at *ALL*
times. Sysops can FREQ the above filenames or the "Magic Name" listed
below for a current version of this message with available filenames.

Board Name              Location         Fido Address  Phone Number    FREQ
============================================================================
X-Capade BBS          Texarkana, TX       1:3819/190   1-903-793-0166  AEG
Airtight Garage BBS   San Francisco, Ca   1:125/17     1-415-641-0348
Some Guy's Basement   Ontario, CAN        1:252/202    1-705-322-2643  AEG
============================================================================

... A.E.G.'s are available from FTP://clover.cleaf.com

--- PPoint 1.96
 * Origin: Automated EpGuides by Snake-Byte Inc. (1:3819/128.103)

Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 146 of 423
 From : Nancy Crockett                      1:170/600       .óá 02 .åê 95 23:50
 To   : Steven Wesen
 Subj : red dwarf
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 SW> Well not to give anything away on all the plot line but
 SW> Kryton returns, Lister is still Lister, Cat's wardrobe gets
 SW> wierder and Holly becomes a Woman.

     I remember this stuff, but not the next part you mentioned. So I guess I
have seen 4 seasons and I'm ready for the 5th. Do you have a sattelite dish by
any chance? There is a channel that shows it now. It is on late I think. I
wonder where they are in the series. I keep forgetting about it when we have the
T.V. on. We usually watch T.V. at dinner time. Then one of us grabs the computer
while the other one figures out what to do.
     Do you know why Holly became a woman? Did the original actor leave?

... Avoid "off-topic" warnings: Add the moderator to your twitlist!

--- FMail/386 1.02
 * Origin: Tulsa Chat BBS-Tulsa, Ok-(918) 234-1352 (1:170/600)

Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 147 of 423
 From : Nancy Crockett                      1:170/600       .óá 02 .åê 95 23:55
 To   : Richard Sarner
 Subj : Highlander
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 RS> NC=>      I did not know about the Highlander echo, I will try to look
 RS> for
 RS> NC=> it. I have never heard of Arkham Asylum. If you have any other info,

 RS> Tell your sysop, they will know how to link to the echo.

     I have told one sysop. I think I will tell this one as well. That way when
one of the boards is busy, maybe I can still get in and find you guys! Have you
seen Chivalry yet? I'm glad to see Methos back. I had not realized that Richie
did not know about him. I won't say much more about it in case you haven't seen
it yet. From what I understand, that is the last new one for a while. We will
get reruns until the last of January. (It will be the beginning of February when
I see the next new one.) We will get 5 more new ones and then back to reruns
again until April.

... "Run, Forrest, run!" Jenny

--- FMail/386 1.02
 * Origin: Tulsa Chat BBS-Tulsa, Ok-(918) 234-1352 (1:170/600)

Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 148 of 423
 From : Phill Ash                           1:275/160       .ÿò 01 .åê 95 15:15
 To   : Jon Roth
 Subj : canadian stuff
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE 1.1+

 JR> Im not sure where Forever Knight is based.  Does anyone know
 JR> if it is Canadian or not?

        Toronto...

                (the CN Tower should've given it away <G>)



Your pal:  PhlAsh
---
 þ thanatos@infi.net þ Hello, I'm the Doctor, and this is my companion, @N@.
~~~ ReneWave v1.01 [NR]
--- GEcho 1.10+
 * Origin: * The Beast's Lair * (804)498-3070 * Va Beach VA * (1:275/160)

Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 149 of 423
 From : Todd Sullivan                       1:202/720.3     .ÿò 01 .åê 95 18:25
 To   : Dan Kachoogian
 Subj : Seaquest 2032
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Whoa, Cool!  Dan Kachoogian and Shawn Merrow are inna cat fight about "Seaquest
2032"!

 DK> *** Quoting Shawn Merrow to All ***

 SM>> Seaquest 2032 has been cancealed. No reason known.
 SM>> Posilbly killed by the Nelsons. Recomnd kill the
 SM>> Nelson family. For crimes aginst the science
 SM>> fiction audieance.
 DK> Couldn't be that they ran out of plots, could it?

Seems to me they ran out just before the season cliffhanger on another planet...

Todd Sullivan

... Rule of Aquisition #6:  Never allow family to stand in the way of
      opportunity.

-*- ASTG 1.9

--- Spot 1.3a Unregistered
 * Origin: Todd's Spot in the Continuum (1:202/720.3)

Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 150 of 423
 From : Ecarey                              1:101/230       .ÿò 01 .åê 95 09:46
 To   : Jon Roth
 Subj : CANADIAN STUFF
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
JR>        Im not sure where Forever Knight is based.  Does anyone know if it i
JR>Canadian or not?

It's set in Toronto. They've said so explicitly onscreen on numerous
occasions.

 * OLX 2.1 TD * hAS ANYONE SEEN MY cAPSLOCK KEY?

--- FLAME v1.0
 * Origin: Withouta Net - Drop In Anytime! - 617/846-5416 (1:101/230)

Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 151 of 423
 From : The Raven                           1:363/309       .óá 02 .åê 95 09:10
 To   : Nancy Crockett
 Subj : Highlander
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 NC> I didn't know I was in a Highlander echo. I just read about it
 NC> from someone else. I was going to look for it, it seems it found me. I
 NC> didn't notice where you are from. Are you in another state?

     Yes, I'm in Florida.

     Jack Butler



... "He's got quite a temper."     "A wicked right cross, too."
--- Blue Wave/RA v2.20 [NR]
 * Origin: Forethought BBS -=- Orlando, FL -=- 407-679-6561 (1:363/309)

Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 152 of 423
 From : The Raven                           1:363/309       .óá 02 .åê 95 09:10
 To   : Dkimmel
 Subj : HITLER'S BRAIN
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 Dk> Your unreasoning hatred of Stanley Kubrick is interesting but since it
 Dk> largely consists of attributing other people's movies -- and motives
 Dk> -- to him, there's really little necessary to say in response.

     His unreasoning hatred of Stanley Kubrick is just as interesting as
your unreasoning idolization of the man.

     Jack Butler



... "I don't believe in God, but I'm afraid of Him." -+ Marquez
--- Blue Wave/RA v2.20 [NR]
 * Origin: Forethought BBS -=- Orlando, FL -=- 407-679-6561 (1:363/309)

Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 153 of 423
 From : Jason C Marshall                    1:259/536       .ÿò 01 .åê 95 00:15
 To   : Anne Hardcastle
 Subj : Gibson
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
From the darkness All looked out & saw Anne Hardcastle say Gibson

 AH> I have listened to an abridged version of virtual light on tape and
 AH> an unabridged version of Neuromancer on tape read by the author.
 AH> Neuromancer was just fabulous.  I was constantly in shock at his
 AH> ability to make technology into poetry and to blend the bits and
 AH> pieces of ultra-urban culture with the best of international issues.
 AH> The interesting thing to me, is how PLAUSIBLE these novels seem.  I am
 AH> very impressed by his work.

  Have you read any of his other novels?


... The Psi Corp is your friend. Trust the corp.
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.21 [NR]
 * Origin: U.S.S. Proxima = Toronto, Canada (416)265-3867 (1:259/536)

Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 154 of 423
 From : Nicolai Shapero                     1:102/524       .óá 02 .åê 95 08:38
 To   : Ken Mayes
 Subj : Re: Sorry for eavedropping ...
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Nov 30 07:47>, Ken Mayes (1:393/7@fido) wrote to All:

 KM>        Another story I heard,
 KM>        Sorry can't remember the source, so take it for what it's
 KM>worth...

[Remainder of political commentary deleted]

Sorry, this is going way outside the bounds of the subject matter of this
conference (which is science fiction).  Please drop this thread.

Thank you for your cooperation,

-- Nicolai Shapero, Moderator of the SFFAN echo

--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 155 of 423
 From : Ecarey                              1:101/230       .óá 02 .åê 95 20:38
 To   : Ken Mayes
 Subj : SORRY FOR EAVEDROPPIN
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
KM>        Another story I heard,


KM>        Sorry can't remember the source, so take it for what it's worth...



KM>        In the mid to late fifties there was a large nuclear waste dumping s
KM>in the Ural mountains. Thousands of tons of nuclear waste were dumped there.
KM>One day the waste concentrations reached such proportions that they achieved
KM>critical mass and detonated destroying the entire facility and polluting a
KM>sizable chunk of countryside.

KM>        For years the Soviets kept the incident secret, however...


KM>        Ten to twenty towns and hamlets which were clearly present on maps f
KM>that year and all years previously suddenly and mysteriously disappeared fro
KM>maps made later. Only after the fall of the Soviet Union did the Russians ow
KM>up to the accident.

However, sometime in the late 70s/early 80s, a Soviet emigre published a
book describing the incident, entitled, oddly enough, NUCLEAR DISASTER
IN THE URALS. I can't provided the exact publication date, or the
author's name, because my copy is somewhere amongst my boxed books.

 * OLX 2.1 TD * This tagline stolen by Off-Line Xpress!

--- FLAME v1.0
 * Origin: Withouta Net - Drop In Anytime! - 617/846-5416 (1:101/230)

Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 156 of 423
 From : Richard Hudson                      1:141/450       .óá 02 .åê 95 00:19
 To   : The Raven
 Subj : Highlander
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
===========================================================================
 BBS: The Pleasure Palace BBS
Date: 11-26-95 (11:20)             Number: 1992
From: THE RAVEN                    Refer#: 1991
  To: ROBERT PARSON                 Recvd: NO
Subj: HIGHLANDER                     Conf: (9) Sffan
___------------------------------------------------------------------------

TR> RP> There's a different version going out to Europe?  What are some of the
TR> RP> major differences?

TR>     For one thing, Richie has a love-life in Europe.  For another, the
TR>standards regarding language and nudity aren't as stringent.

TR>     Jack Butler

Who is she. Is she an Immortal. if not does she know what he really is.

TR>... "Nothing we do will bring anyone back!" -- Duncan MacLeod
TR>--- Blue Wave/RA v2.20 [NR]
TR> * Origin: Forethought BBS -=- Orlando, FL -=- 407-679-6561 (1:363/309)

___
 * SLMR 2.0 * Wanna get rid of your old game systems call 203>334 1626!

--- Maximus 3.00
 * Origin: The Pleasure Palace BBS (1:141/450)

Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 157 of 423
 From : Richard Hudson                      1:141/450       .ÿò 01 .åê 95 23:56
 To   : Nancy Crockett
 Subj : Highlander:  New Season
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
===========================================================================
 BBS: The Pleasure Palace BBS
Date: 11-28-95 (22:42)             Number: 2005
From: NANCY CROCKETT               Refer#: 1958
  To: RICHARD HUDSON                Recvd: YES
Subj: Highlander:  New Season        Conf: (9) Sffan
___------------------------------------------------------------------------

NC> RH> Im a highlander fan. Let's talk. By the way who is your
NC> RH> favorite villan.

NC>     That is a hard one. I have four years to choose from! Slan, from the
NC>first episode, (played by "Bull" from Nightcourt) was a fun
NC>one. With the stories developing to where immortals heal so
NC>well, I don't know why Slan was worried about his face
NC>being messed up! I can only assume that was before they
NC>thought about wounds healing. I thought that Kalas was
NC>quite devious and I twisted and squirmed and every new
NC>hitch he threw in Duncans efforts to kill him. I'm not to
NC>crazy about Kenny, but then I don't care for bratty kids. I
NC>liked the episode with the irish female immortal that
NC>fought with Richie, but that is because of her "talk" with
NC>Duncan out on the pier! I'll think some more on that, maybe
NC>one more favorite will come to me.
NC>     Did you like Tessa or Ann better?

NC>... "His names Forrest." Jenny
NC>--- FMail/386 1.02
NC> * Origin: Tulsa Chat BBS-Tulsa, Ok-(918) 234-1352 (1:170/600)

My favorite Villans are...

Xaiver St. Cloud As a black peoson, I wish that there were more black
villians like him. He was intelligent,suave and inpeccibaly dressed.
Plus it took several weeks for Duncan to finally take his head, which
made watching the Quickening even sweeter. He also had onle of the
greatest lines in ther series to date. "When you eat,eat well. When you
make love, make it last a long time. And when you kill, kill for
pleasure" That line was perfect for him and in fact, alot of the really
good evil Immortal.


James Horton.

He is'nt an Immortal but he knows all about them.
For 25 years he was a Watcher.
A high ranking member of a secret organization who observes and records
but never interferes in the affairs of Immortals.
Until the day when he decided that all immortals were evil and had to
die, including  Darius, an acient Immortal who lived on holy ground,
waiting until the time of the Gathering, when he would take his place as
the last immortal and bring everlasting light to the world.]
By killing Darius, he has made himself an enemy of Immortals and
Watchers everywhere, including the Immortal who has tried to kill him
twice and failed.An immortal who vows to avenge the death of his friend
and the world's great hope for peace. An Immortal named Duncan Macloed.
He is the man that not even the Highlander can kill.
He is my brother in law.
James Horton

Personally I think that James Horton is not exactly mortal,even if he
is'nt an Immortal and Duncan should treat him if he was an immortal and
cut off his head if they should ever meet again. If being stabbed, shot
and shot and drowned dosen't kill him than nothing short od a beheading
will. I like him simply because, well nothing can seem to stop this guy.
He provides a contrast to the watchers and Joe In particular. I think
that Horton should be a recurring character and more of a menace to
Duncan. I also think that there should be a spinoff of  Highlander
featuring the Diffrent Watchers watching diffrent immortals each week
and their take on the Game.

Other faves include.
Kallas
Kurn
Kulher
Neferiti


So do you like the Animated series.

Richard Hudson

who thinks thart Duncan shoul marry Amanda.
___
 * SLMR 2.0 * "Bother" said Xavier St. Cloud , as Duncan took his head.

--- Maximus 3.00
 * Origin: The Pleasure Palace BBS (1:141/450)

Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 158 of 423
 From : Mark Jones                          1:105/302.47    .ÿò 01 .åê 95 18:56
 To   : Ken Mayes
 Subj : Sorry for eavedropping ...
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On (30 Nov 95) Ken Mayes wrote to All...

 KM>         Sorry can't remember the source, so take it for what it's
 KM> worth...

 KM>         In the mid to late fifties there was a large nuclear waste
 KM> dumping site in the Ural mountains. Thousands of tons of nuclear waste
 KM> were dumped there. One day the waste concentrations reached such
 KM> proportions that they achieved critical mass and detonated destroying
 KM> the entire facility and polluting a sizable chunk of countryside.

   Sounds like an urban legend or cold war propaganda to me.

   It takes a great deal of precision engineering to build a *bomb*
that will detonate correctly.  If the radioactives aren't driven
together fast and hard enough to achieve critical mass before they
"fizzle", you get a dud.
   Simply tossing cans of nuclear waste into a pile will not achieve
the desired effect.

   That said, I'm willing to believe that the Soviets thoroughly
polluted and effectively destroyed an area with sloppy waste handling.
 But not by creating an accidental bomb.


--- PPoint 1.78
 * Origin: Folcroft Sanitarium (hsmith@cure.com) (1:105/302.47)

Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 159 of 423
 From : Mark Jones                          1:105/302.47    .óá 02 .åê 95 16:02
 To   : Shawn Merrow
 Subj : Sci-Fi TV
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On (02 Dec 95) Shawn Merrow wrote to All...

 SM> The main reson I am upset with the Nelson ratings is it allows a very
 SM> small and narrow audience control whats on tv. If it isnt a mindless
 SM> sitcom it dosent get ratings and it gets cancealed. All Sci-Fi shows
 SM> have fought the ratings they usally lose (Star Trek: TOS). I have

Unfortunately, the Neilson ratings system is the best tool available
at the moment, flawed though it may be.  The decision makers need
*some* kind of feedback to tell them what is being watched (and by
whom), and what isn't.  The Neilson folk provide that.

As for a "very small and narrow audience"... I expect that they try
for as accurate a cross-section of the public as possible.  Whether
they always get it is another matter.  But consider that we now have
B-5, DS9, Voyager, Hercules, Xena, X-Files and other "sci-fi" shows
on.  The original Star Treke got canned after three seasons--but
science fiction seems to have finally achieved commercial success on
television.  Don't complain *too* much.

 SM> also noticed that in replys to my first post complain that Seaquest
 SM> 2032 isnt Scientfic enough for them. I want to take an impromtu survy
 SM> on this. The question is.

 SM> 1. How many of you would be willing to watch a show where it 5 to
 SM> 10 hours of air time showing debates, meetings, conferances, and
 SM> large amounts of lab work to solve just a basic problem. And
 SM> rember when this is going on you going have problems with brusied
 SM> egos and other problems between the personel.

You're missing the point.  If you were watching NYPD Blue or Homicide,
and the detectives suddenly whipped up a "Guilt Sensor" that could
quickly and easily determine who the killer was, you'd turn off the
show, wouldn't you?

When the Seaquest crew did an episode about giant (200') alligators...

When they discovered Neptune's Pyramid, which was "older than time"
yet was also supposedly built by the "ancient Greeks" a THOUSAND years
ago (about the time the Saxons and the Normans were fighting in
1066...they not only demonstrated total ignorance of history.

They demonstrated that they didn't CARE how ignorant they were--nor
did they care, apparently, whether the audience knew how blatantly
stupid the characters sounded.

It's an insult to the viewers.  It *deserved* to be cancelled.


--- PPoint 1.78
 * Origin: Folcroft Sanitarium (hsmith@cure.com) (1:105/302.47)

Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 160 of 423
 From : David Johnston                      1:342/14        .cê 03 .åê 95 00:45
 To   : Shawn Merrow
 Subj : Sci-Fi Tv
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
-> The main reson I am upset with the Nelson ratings is it allows a very
-> small and narrow audience control whats on tv. If it isnt a mindless
-> sitcom it dosent get ratings and it gets cancealed. All Sci-Fi shows
-> have fought the ratings they usally lose (Star Trek: TOS). I have
-> also noticed that in replys to my first post complain that Seaquest
-> 2032 isnt Scientfic enough for them. I want to take an impromtu survy

Actually more people DO watch sitcoms than science fiction.  That isn't
just an illusion produced by the Nielson polling system.  As for those
people, I have to ask, were they complaining about the revamp's reduced
emphasis on "scientific missions" or just about the scientific flaws
which were particularly endemic last season?

--- PCBoard (R) v15.21/100
 * Origin: Freddy's Place - Edm. AB - 28.8K (403) 456-4241 (1:342/14)

Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 161 of 423
 From : Frank Swarbrick                     1:104/825       .óá 02 .åê 95 14:56
 To   : Robert Lidgren
 Subj : X-FILES
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12  92-0022
On 11-29-95  22:09 Ambassador Robert Lidgren of the Minbari Federation said:

 -> RL> Perhaps the very toughest thing for any top-notcxh series to do
 -> is RL> keep their STORIES at a high level of excellence week after
 -> week.  I RL> think, on the whole, though, X-Files has many more
 -> "hits" than misses.
 -> Perhaps, but the "ick" factor has been pretty high lately.

 RL> I certainly agree - especially the espisode which revolved around the
 RL> abduction and torment of the your girl!  This episode was VERY TOUGH
 RL> for me to watch although, I suppose, the material was handled in a
 RL> powerful way.  Being a parent with a son and daughter, I must admit
 RL> that the victimization of children will NEVER be "entertaining" for me.

Hmmm, "Oubliette" (the episode you're refering to) didn't seem to have
much of an "ick" factor at all to me.  I felt it was one of the best
episodes of the season.  Of course, it was very affecting, but that
was the point.  I feel the ones where the main characters are affected
in some way are the best of all, and Mulder was definately affected in
this one.

As for victimization of children, what did you think of the opening
scene of "The Calusari" from last season, where the little kid got hit
by the train.  Now that, I admit, was teetering on exploitation, but I
still think it was well done.

        Frank

... People think I'm insane because I am frowning all the time.
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12
 * Origin: The Bailey Information Exchange BBS, 28.8k v.fc  (1:104/825.0)

Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 162 of 423
 From : Jeff Hancock                        1:3600/7        .óá 02 .åê 95 01:39
 To   : Chris Carter
 Subj : B5 -- Coincidence?
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

CC>As for inspiration, there are a few ways to look a that as well. JMS'
CC>exposure to anime is at this point, entirely unknown, aside from the
CC>comments he's made.  I would hesitate to say that anime has had an

And speaking of which, I ran across the following comment while perusing
my JMS files...

 >Date: Sat, 15 Jul 95 10:21:00 UTC
 >From: straczynski@genie.geis.com
 >To: babylon5@solaris.cc.vt.edu
 >Subject: ATTN JMS: WoH
 >Message-ID: <199507151043.AA003305005@relay1.geis.com>
 >
 >     I am woefully and dreadfully ignorant on virtually ALL anime, WOH
 >included.
 >
 >                                                                    jms

(whatever WOH is....)

Of course that may have changed since, or may be totally inaccurate, but
that's how it goes.
-=-
 * Crazy-J * Double value meal - just as good coming back up!

--- SLMAIL v3.5C  (#1540)
 * Origin: Robotech þ Lake City's Music*Demo BBS þ [904] 758*9477 (1:3600/7)

Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 163 of 423
 From : Anne Hardcastle                     1:393/7         .cê 03 .åê 95 20:02
 To   : The Raven
 Subj : Re: Immortals List  1
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Yes, I am so glad you have posted an updated version of this list.  I had seen
it before and didn't keep it and then it went away!! :(.  Thank you, it is
fabulous, especially for us latecomers to Highlander TS obsession.  Do you have
a list of episodes by season?  When USA shows them out of order, we are always
scrambling to figure out what season we are in.

anne hardcastle
--- CNet/3
 * Origin: The Bard's Tavern Denton, TX (817)243-5110 USR 28.8   (1:393/7)

Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 164 of 423
 From : Marc Zingarelli                     1:226/110       .îí 04 .åê 95 12:46
 To   : The Raven
 Subj : Methos
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12  92-0004
Well Methos is back and with the tagline of the century.

"Talk about the blind leading the visually challenged"  I about rolled out of
the chair.  Any word on how long he'll be around.  I think there's more to
him than meets the eye though.

Later
     ---
 LT MARC ZINGARELLI
 Circleville Fire Department
 Local 1232
 Internet:  marc.zingarelli@tcr.com


 * OLX 1.52 * No woman ever shot a man while he was doing the dishes.

--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12
 * Origin: The Computer Room-Pickerington, Oh (614)861-8377  (1:226/110.0)

Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 165 of 423
 From : Nicola Theriault                    1:147/74        .ÿò 01 .åê 95 08:48
 To   : All
 Subj : Accelerator
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE 1.11+
     Had an idea for an interesting weapon; it would "harness and package" ball
lightning and then fire it faster than the speed of light. How fast? haven't
worked that out yet. The target, upon successful strike, would get younger.

     Any opinions?

                                                            Doc

Remember, you're never wrong.....Just mis-informed!

--- Telegard 2.99gamma 2
 * Origin: Darkmoore BBS - 405-799-3275 (1:147/74)

Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 166 of 423
 From : Nicolai Shapero                     1:102/524       .cê 03 .åê 95 08:32
 To   : Ed Brannin
 Subj : Re: red dwarf
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Nov 29 17:38>, Ed Brannin (1:2613/135@fidonet.org) wrote to Nicolai Shapero:

 EB> sorry!  i use blue wave, if i quote it does the whole thing.

Just delete everything that's non-essential.  My quoting mechanism quotes
everything, too.  But deleting a few lines is fairly straightforward in msged,
and I presume in blue wave as well.

-- Nicolai Shapero, Moderator of the SFFAN echo

--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

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 Msg  : 167 of 423
 From : Tony Trujillo                       1:280/9         .ÿò 01 .åê 95 12:58
 To   : Myra I Fox
 Subj : Re: Tom Holt & PTerry
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE 1.11+

 TT>> I don't remember if I had asked you if you read MEN AT ARMS.
 TT>> To date, it's my all time favorite DISCWORLD book.
 MI> That is one I have missed... I'll keep looking for it though.

It's a wonderful follow-up to GUARDS! GUARDS! and in some
places is one of the most serious DW novels to date. Pterry
tackles some current issues such as racism in this one but
does it in a style so he doesn't whack you over the head with
it.

 MI> I read "Good Omens" not long ago and it was funny.

I read it just after you finished it and thought it was a
great collaboration. I'd love to see Terry and Neil get
together for another book or a sequel to GO. One of my
favorite lines was when The Demon and The Angel (on Earth)
were going to battle the combined forces of Heaven and Hell
and the Angel (who picked up a flaming sword) said to
Crowly, "I sure hope I can remember how to use this
thing!" :^)

 MI> And I just read "Eric"

What did you think about this one? Jo told me she thought it
was OK but wasn't her favorite DW book. I think she said
something along the lines that she thought it was written
for younger audience/children.

 MI> I was checking out the new bookstore/coffee bar in town
 MI> called Borders.

We have a BORDERS BOOKS here in KC as well but it's so far
away from my house that I don't get to visit it often. I
really love the large selection but I tend to say closer
to this side of town when looking for books. However,
another reason is that there are so many books there I'd
probably spend all of my money if I did go their often! It's
one of the reasons I stay away from BARNES & NOBEL as well!
:^)

 MI> I think I'll take the little, locally owned Deliberate Literate
 MI> as a favorite place to browse and have an espresso.

It's always nice to support the local smaller stores...never
hurts to keep the money "in town".


... The Morpork Sunshine Sanctuary for Sick and Lost Dragons
--- Via Silver Xpress V4.02B03 SW01177
 * Origin: South of the River - Overland Park KS - (913)642-7907 V.* (1:280/9)

Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 168 of 423
 From : Brian Minsker                       1:325/118       .åò 30 Hîÿ 95 16:12
 To   : Jon Roth
 Subj : Canadian Stuff
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 JR>         Im not sure where Forever Knight is based.  Does
 JR> anyone know if it is Canadian or not?

I don't really watch it, but it looks like the CN Tower in the ads,
which would put it in Toronto.


... Those 3 little words that mean so much: Klaatu Borada Nikto
___ via Silver Xpress V3.02

--- Maximus/2 3.00
 * Origin: The Ozone Layer, Williston, VT. (802) 862-5058 (1:325/118)

Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 169 of 423
 From : Chris Ogniben                       1:2604/568      .óá 02 .åê 95 15:03
 To   : Chris Carter
 Subj : B5 -- Coincidence?
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

   I don't think people should waste their time, trying to figure out
of Babylon 5 been copying certain ideas from star trek.  I mean, when
you look at star trek, and then babylon 5.. And then all the possible
ideas that a human brain can use.  That, you are gonna see that most of
the ideas that were new, are all used.  And now they are just trying
whatever they can from ideas of other shows, along with books.. To find
new and cooler ideas to work into episodes of their shows.  And, unless
you got a free lance writer, that has tons of great ideas and writes up
a 3 to 4 year story of 200 or 300 episodes total.. To be able to just
read and film and read and film, as the fans just flock to the tv sets
and watch this one mans entire storyline go from beginning to end..
That it would be the only way to make it possible to see something new
than for it to have simliarities from other shows present to past.  So,
the best thing to do is, just forget about it and live with it.


--- WM v3.11/93-0947
 * Origin: Waterside BBS - NJ - (201) 641-5375 28.8k  (1:2604/568)

Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 170 of 423
 From : Chris Ogniben                       1:2604/568      .óá 02 .åê 95 15:06
 To   : Brandon Wolgast
 Subj : Nowhere Man
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

   I can't believe this thing is in this conference as a discussion..
After all the people i been talking to.. I would think there would
harly be any fans of the show NoWhere Man.. Apparently it's stupid, and
is the worst i ever seen for a whatever it is.. And i don't think it's
a science fiction in nature kind of show.. Since he wasn't abducted and
have his memory erased.  Anyways, i think anyone that considers to
speak about Nowhwere man in here, along with having any fans.. Are
losers, and they should right away change to another show, before other
people attack you.. Because, nowwhere man sucks.


--- WM v3.11/93-0947
 * Origin: Waterside BBS - NJ - (201) 641-5375 28.8k  (1:2604/568)

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 Msg  : 171 of 423
 From : Chris Ogniben                       1:2604/568      .óá 02 .åê 95 15:08
 To   : Nancy Crockett
 Subj : Highlander
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

   I am watching Highlander with a new actor for Mccloud.  And, this is
on channel 17, USA.. Umm, apparently i don't watch the entire thing, i
only get hooked on it, for it's chivalry and sword action scenes.. But,
the more i learn of it, i see that it deals with something that is
kinda close to my sort of interests.. Since, i am a big fan or person
that is really interested in the life of those chilvalry years.  And,
since Highlander is based on the past and present.. It sure is a good
show.. Might try to start watching the hour episode than the sword
secens.. To learn of more.


--- WM v3.11/93-0947
 * Origin: Waterside BBS - NJ - (201) 641-5375 28.8k  (1:2604/568)

Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 172 of 423
 From : Chris Ogniben                       1:2604/568      .óá 02 .åê 95 15:10
 To   : Nancy Crockett
 Subj : Highlander
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

  I know there was series, then a movie, then there seems to be another
series.. With a different actor as Mcloud.. And, now i don't know if
it's just all reruns that i havn't seen.. Of course, i am not a big fan
of Highlander.. I havn't been able to get myself hooked on it, since i
really didn't take the time to see what it was really about.. Until
now, since i enjoy the sword fighting scenes in the highlander series
on USA channel 17.  Weekdays.  Umm, not sure if there is new episodes.
Since you ask to see if there were.  But, i am a big chivarly fan.. Or
have interest of how life was back in the days of knights and warriors
in suits of armour.  And, being a fan of highlander could be a cool
thing..


--- WM v3.11/93-0947
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Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 173 of 423
 From : Chris Ogniben                       1:2604/568      .óá 02 .åê 95 15:13
 To   : Mark David
 Subj : Re: Questions, But Are T
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

  I don't know exactly what this type of energy discussion is based
upon.. But, i know that though Radiation is perhaps the best power to
be used.  That i find it very scary, and just not safe around human
beings.. I have to let you know how i feel about this.. Since, i think
being a human really sucks.. And that, no matter what you do in life,
yo always find another object that has the ability to kill you, or to
kill someone else.. I mean, you can even die by accidently dropping off
your roof, or getting into an accident with a car.. I mean, human
bodies stink, they are so weak, and just don't see that Radiation would
be a very safe and respectable source of energy of the future.  I
think, pretty soon we must find a more safre energy structure, that has
the less tendancy to kill us.


--- WM v3.11/93-0947
 * Origin: Waterside BBS - NJ - (201) 641-5375 28.8k  (1:2604/568)

Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 174 of 423
 From : The Raven                           1:363/309       .cê 03 .åê 95 13:28
 To   : Mark Jones
 Subj : B5 -- Coincidence?
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 MJ> This true, but I think being passively exposed to the existence of
 MJ> other works of fiction is different from actively filing the serial
 MJ> numbers off and using them yourself (chortling evilly all the while,
 MJ> of course...).

     Of course there is, but my point is this:  many a person has lifted
something without meaning to, after being exposed only once.  Such borrowing
cannot be said to be "ripping off" or "stealing from" the original.  I
think we all know the difference between "committing plagiarism" and "being
influenced".


 TR>      I always thought it looked like a submarine...

 MJ> That's what it looked like to me, too.  (And I still think it was a
 MJ> bad design for a space-going warship....)

     Yah.  But then, what would be a good design for a warship... a sphere,
maybe?

     Jack Butler



... "SLOW CHILDREN" grow up to be "SLOW MEN AT WORK".
--- Blue Wave/RA v2.20 [NR]
 * Origin: Forethought BBS -=- Orlando, FL -=- 407-679-6561 (1:363/309)

Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 175 of 423
 From : The Raven                           1:363/309       .cê 03 .åê 95 13:28
 To   : Chris Carter
 Subj : B5 -- Coincidence?
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 CC> Oh sure.  I won't deign to disagree with this.  But I think that
 CC> the notion of 'lifting' from another source implies a conscious
 CC> intent to do so.  I don't believe that JMS has done this.

     Neither do I, but I do believe that it is possible that his own work
has been inspired by someone else's work.  It only makes sense, after all,
and only a fool would ever suggest otherwise.


 CC> On the other hand, if he's been exposed indirectly to anime by seeing a
 CC> work that really did lift heavily from one or more of the serial
 CC> programs that have been discussed here earlier, that introduces the
 CC> possibility of second-hand (or potentially third or fourth-hand, etc.)
 CC> lifting.

     Which is my point...


 CC> One's exposure to something can be entirely nil, and you can still get
 CC> production of a work remarkably similar to that original something.

     I have to tell you of a conversation I had with Pat Cadigan once.  I was
telling her about a novel I was in the process of writing when suddenly she
interrupted me and asked me if I'd read her novel Mindplayers.  (I hadn't.)
It turns out that my novel and hers had the same plot line, and even shared
some details.

     Jack Butler




 CC> Chris - carter@teleport.com


 CC> ... "Blast 'em all, and let the archaeologists sort 'em out!"

 CC> -!- PPoint 1.98
 CC>  ! Origin: Grid Epsilon Coords. 105x290x23 (1:105/290.23)



... "A thing is not necessarily true because a man dies for it."
--- Blue Wave/RA v2.20 [NR]
 * Origin: Forethought BBS -=- Orlando, FL -=- 407-679-6561 (1:363/309)

Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 176 of 423
 From : Todd Sullivan                       1:202/720.3     .cê 03 .åê 95 15:00
 To   : The Raven
 Subj : Kubric vs King?
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Whoa, Cool!  The Raven and Dkimmel are inna cat fight about "HITLER'S BRAIN"!

 Dk>> Your unreasoning hatred of Stanley Kubrick is interesting but since it
 Dk>> largely consists of attributing other people's movies -- and motives
 Dk>> -- to him, there's really little necessary to say in response.

 TR>      His unreasoning hatred of Stanley Kubrick is just as interesting
 TR> as your unreasoning idolization of the man.

Funny thing is, it doesn't show up in _Danse_ _Macabre_.  I guess Steven's
managaed to keep his personal feelings out of his writings, which isn't as easy
as it sounds, going by the flak we're seeing.

Todd Sullivan

... "Darn it!  I hate getting run over by trains!" --The Tick

-*- ASTG 1.9

--- Spot 1.3a Unregistered
 * Origin: Todd's Spot in the Continuum (1:202/720.3)

Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 177 of 423
 From : Gerry Normandeau                    1:163/430       .cê 03 .åê 95 18:10
 To   : Michael Harper
 Subj : Re: HITLER'S BRAIN
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

-=> On 11-27-95  17:12 Dkimmel ran Michael Harper out of town because of
-=> HITLER'S BRAIN!!! <=-
 MH> > Just in case there are any lurkers who don't get that you're
 MH> > simply
 MH> > ragging on the great director, Stanely Kubrick had NOTHING to
 MH> > do with
 MH> > the shlocker "They Saved Hitler's Brain."

 MH>My source is somewhat apocryphal, but I trust him about as much as I trust
 MH>anybody... Almost every director/actor/whatever has a
 MH>film or two in their p
 MH>that's so godawful they'll disavow it in a heartbeat;
 MH>Kubrick is no differen

 Dk> No, Stanley Kubrick had NOTHING to do with the movie.

I am sorry to say that Dk is absolutly right. My sources are 200 movie books,
and I have looked through them and they all agree about one thing the directer
of "They Saved Hitler's Brain" also released as "Madman of Mandoras" and
"The Return of Mr. H." was directed by David Bradley (which, by the way, was
his first and last feature film). The film was made in 1964 at that time Mr.
Kubrick
was busy making "Dr. Strangelove".

... Honor those the dragons heed, in thought and favor, word and deed.
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

--- Maximus 2.01wb
 * Origin: Watership Down BBS, Kanata , ON (1:163/430)

Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 178 of 423
 From : Darre LuAllen                       1:3637/1        .îí 04 .åê 95 16:52
 To   : Richard Hudson
 Subj : Re: Vir Cotto
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 Potential Spoiler Alert
 .
 .
 .
 .
 .
 .                  <Insert cool spoiler graphics here.>
 .
 .
 .
 .
 .
 .
 .
 .
 .                  <No, really.  Use your imagination.>
 .
 .
 .
 .
 .
 On 11-27-95 Richard Hudson wrote to Darre Luallen...

 DL>Of course, this is all a moot point since Vir would hop the next Flyer to
 DL>Minbar if he thought that the Centarum was trying to give him the job.

 RH> The funny thing is that Vir IS on the next flyer to Minbar, or was if
 RH> you saw this weeks episode.

 I can't remember if I've responded to this post, so here I go again.
 Good.  Vir is Minbar-bound.  I really like Vir, and would like to see more
 of him.  However, I'd rather see him out of harm's way for now.  Of course,
 Vir is don't going to be where he needs to be to help Londo crawl up out
 of the hole he's gotten himself into.

 Now if some kindly ranger would like to take Vir in, then he would be set.
 Of course, I've already gone into the problems that I think he would have
 in that (on this echo or the B5 echo).  To sum up, Vir is a member of the
 "hated" race, the Centauri.  He is also the ex-aide-de-campe of Londo
 "Shadow-bringer" Mollari.  Vir will have much 'splainin' to do.

 Hey, maybe we'll get to see more of Vir in the B5 comic (boy am I behind in
 reading those).

                                                Darre LuAllen
                                                GE Experiment and
                                                Master of the Coda Error

 "So I babble on and on and on..." B. Boxleitner


___
 * OFFLINE 1.56

--- Maximus/2 3.00
 * Origin: Cumberland BBS TN 615/526-3347 V34 (1:3637/1)

Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 179 of 423
 From : Tommy Kellerman                     2:205/356       .óá 02 .åê 95 01:39
 To   : Nancy Crockett
 Subj : Highlander
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
                 Hi Nancy !
                 ----------


I noticed your interest in the Highlander series
as well as the movies, and since I'm unable to
attend your "gathering" ( I live in Europe ) I
wanted to ask you about these T-shirts...

There isn't any to get around these parts, so I
just wanted to ask if maybe I could buy one or two
by mail?


/// -Tommy K.- \\\   *- There can be only ONE ! -*

--- Xenolink 1.0 Z.3, EmacsXL.4
 * Origin: NoLimit, Furudal +46-258-10071 (2:205/356)

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 Msg  : 180 of 423
 From : David Johnston                      1:342/14        .îí 04 .åê 95 00:43
 To   : Todd Sullivan
 Subj : Canadian Stuff
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
-> JR>         Im not sure where Forever Knight is based.  Does anyone
-> know if JR> it is Canadian or not?
-> Yes it is; it's based and set in Calgary, Alberta.

It's based and set in Toronto, Ontario.  (They have a tower shaped like
that one in Calgary).

--- PCBoard (R) v15.21/100
 * Origin: Freddy's Place - Edm. AB - 28.8K (403) 456-4241 (1:342/14)

Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 181 of 423
 From : David Johnston                      1:342/14        .îí 04 .åê 95 00:47
 To   : Robert Parson
 Subj : Re: Seaquest 2032
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
-> An example of an SF show that was never allowed to follow through on
-> it's promises because it was cut short was, of all things, Space
-> Rangers.  I'm not going to jump through hoops to defend Space
-> Rangers, but it did have a focus and it had a goofiness that I came
-> to appreciate.

Space Rangers suffered from being a little sloppy, a little loud, and
way too violent for the present puritanical climate.  But the most
under-rated SF TV show I ever saw, was Mann and Machine.

--- PCBoard (R) v15.21/100
 * Origin: Freddy's Place - Edm. AB - 28.8K (403) 456-4241 (1:342/14)

Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 182 of 423
 From : Nicolai Shapero                     1:102/524       .îí 04 .åê 95 20:02
 To   : Nicola Theriault
 Subj : Accelerator
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Dec 01 08:48>, Nicola Theriault (1:147/74) wrote to All:

 NT>     Had an idea for an interesting weapon; it would "harness and
 NT>package" ball
 NT>lightning and then fire it faster than the speed of light. How
 NT>fast? haven't
 NT>worked that out yet. The target, upon successful strike, would
 NT>get younger.

 NT>     Any opinions?

Plergb?

-- Nicolai Shapero, the Mad Russian Sysop of StormGate Aerie

--- msged 2.06
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Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 183 of 423
 From : David Johnston                      1:342/14        .òp 05 .åê 95 01:44
 To   : Nicola Theriault
 Subj : Accelerator
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
->    Had an idea for an interesting weapon; it would "harness and
-> package" ball
-> lightning and then fire it faster than the speed of light. How fast?
-> haven't worked that out yet. The target, upon successful strike,
-> would get younger.

Well, apart from it being impossible as stated (because you can't
accelerate electrons to a speed faster than light and even if you did,
it wouldn't make things younger); it doesn't seem like a terribly
effective weapon, at least not in proportion to the amount of effort
that would go into it.  Incidentally, if you did accelerate electrons to
a speed faster than light, it would be more likely that you'd end up
with a weapon that hit it's target in the previous week or something,
retroactively changing reality.

--- PCBoard (R) v15.21/100
 * Origin: Freddy's Place - Edm. AB - 28.8K (403) 456-4241 (1:342/14)

Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 184 of 423
 From : Lawrence E Dunlap                   1:106/2927      .pä 06 .åê 95 00:02
 To   : Daniel Nystrom
 Subj : Gibson
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Gibsom's idea that a software program could be transmitted to enable
sufficiently advanced cultures with some form of cyberspace to experience
extraterresterial environments and species without meaningful star travel is an
interesting idea. Wonder what would come of some similar transmission by Terrans
if we tried to encapsulate our life and environment into a virtual reality
program for use by a alien species and technology.

The central battle of the Neuromancer series revolved around just such a virtual
reality program in the cyberspace "nets" which Case uploaded into cyberspace
that produced the Centauri race's virtual reality program, in effect
'contacting' our species through the program playing through the net.
Interesting concept, this by Gibsom.

Lawrence E Dunlap
(1:106/2927)
* SPITFIRE v3.5
--- Alexi/Mail 2.02b (#10000)
 * Origin: Computer Living F'n BBS-Houston, TX 713-444-2927 (1:106/2927)

Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 185 of 423
 From : Richard Sarner                      1:271/236       .òp 05 .åê 95 09:02
 To   : Nancy Crockett
 Subj : Re: Highlander
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE 1.11+

NC=> find you guys! Have you seen Chivalry yet? I'm glad to see Methos
NC=> back. I had not realized that Richie did not know about him. I won't

I am watching as I type. (Can you say typos?:) Bill Panzer and Peter Wingfield
were in a Q&A together and responded that while the Watchers knew about Richie,
Methos was still a secret. Richie was not around to meet him. I almost am glad
of the reruns, it will give me a chance to catch up. :)_

...Richard

--- GEcho 1.11+
 * Origin: THE TIME MACHINE (804)599-6401 TRAVEL THE PORTALS! (1:271/236)

Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 186 of 423
 From : Myra I Fox                          1:123/10        .óá 02 .åê 95 07:22
 To   : J.T. Smith
 Subj : Tom Holt
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

-=>Quoting J.T. Smith to Myra I Fox<=-

 JS> Me favourite to date has to be "Who's Afraid Of Beowulf."  Probably
 JS> because 1) it was the first one I read, and 2) it contains two
 JS> elements very near and dear to me: Archaeology, and Scotland! D)

Sounds great... and I just borrowed it.  Now I am really looking
forward to it.  Maybe I will start it tonight after the Battlefield
Band concert.  But what do Vikings have to do with Scotland?  I know,
I'll find out before I get your reply <g>.

 MIF> No they are by another British humor/fantasy author named Terry
 MIF> Pratchett.  I would predict if you like Tom Holt then you would like

 JS> I have a couple of his books in me personal library.  Haven't gotten
 JS> the chance to read them yet.  Some day though. D)

That is what I did, had a couple on hand for the longest time before
deciding to start reading them.  Now I'm hooked.  I still have a
couple unread "Small Gods" and "Strata".



... All roads lead to Amber, but not all can walk them....
--- RA/FD/FMail
 * Origin: The Electric Fox - Memphis,TN, U.S.A.  1-901-327-1008 (1:123/10)

Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 187 of 423
 From : Mark Jones                          1:105/302.47    .pä 06 .åê 95 20:47
 To   : Dkimmel
 Subj : HITLER'S BRAIN
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On (04 Dec 95) Dkimmel wrote to The Raven...

 TR> His unreasoning hatred of Stanley Kubrick is just as interesting
 TR> as your unreasoning idolization of the man.
 D >
 D > What a bizarre statement on your part. Where did I engage in
 D > "unreasoning idolization of the man?" Perhaps you should just
 D > stay out of topics where you clearly don't know what's going on.

   Everything you've had to say about Kubrick in this echo since the
thread started indicates that you seem to think that life wouldn't be
worth living if he didn't exist.

   He's not the only one to see that about you.


--- PPoint 1.78
 * Origin: Folcroft Sanitarium (hsmith@cure.com) (1:105/302.47)

Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 188 of 423
 From : Dkimmel                             1:101/230       .pä 06 .åê 95 08:57
 To   : Gerry Normandeau
 Subj : HITLER'S BRAIN
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
GN> MH> > Just in case there are any lurkers who don't get that you're
GN> MH> > simply
GN> MH> > ragging on the great director, Stanely Kubrick had NOTHING to
GN> MH> > do with
GN> MH> > the shlocker "They Saved Hitler's Brain."

GN> MH>My source is somewhat apocryphal, but I trust him about as much as I tru
GN> MH>anybody... Almost every director/actor/whatever has a
GN> MH>film or two in their p
GN> MH>that's so godawful they'll disavow it in a heartbeat;
GN> MH>Kubrick is no differen

GN> Dk> No, Stanley Kubrick had NOTHING to do with the movie.

GN>I am sorry to say that Dk is absolutly right. My sources are 200 movie books
GN>and I have looked through them and they all agree about one thing the direct
GN>of "They Saved Hitler's Brain" also released as "Madman of Mandoras" and
GN>"The Return of Mr. H." was directed by David Bradley (which, by the way, was
GN>his first and last feature film). The film was made in 1964 at that time Mr.
GN>Kubrick
GN>was busy making "Dr. Strangelove".

Why are you "sorry to say" it?

 * SLMR 2.1a * NIAGARA FALLS!  Sloooowly, I turned....

--- FLAME v1.0
 * Origin: Withouta Net - Drop In Anytime! - 617/846-5416 (1:101/230)

Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 189 of 423
 From : Brion Lienhart                      1:213/700.2     .åò 07 .åê 95 09:08
 To   : Tim Stackpool
 Subj : Re: Your English
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On Sun Dec 03, Tim Stackpool said to Shawn Merrow:

 SM> Seaquest 2032 has been cancealed. No reason known.
 SM> Posilbly killed by the Nelsons. Recomnd kill the
 SM> Nelson family. For crimes aginst the science
 SM> fiction audieance.

 -TS> Perhaps Shawn, you should be done away with for crimes
 -TS>  against the english language.

Besides, Ozzie and Harriet have been off the air for decades. I can see why
somone would hold a grudge against Rick, but he did a pretty good job in that
one John Wayne movie (I'm blanking on the title, maybe Rio Lobo).





--- QM v1.31
 * Origin: Ministry of Peace - Carson City, NV (1:213/700.2)

Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 190 of 423
 From : Frank Swarbrick                     1:104/825       .òp 05 .åê 95 21:00
 To   : Chris Ogniben
 Subj : Nowhere Man
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12  92-0022
On 12-02-95  15:06 Ambassador Chris Ogniben of the Minbari Federation said:

 CO> I can't believe this thing is in this conference as a discussion..
 CO> After all the people i been talking to.. I would think there would
 CO> harly be any fans of the show NoWhere Man.. Apparently it's stupid,
 CO> and is the worst i ever seen for a whatever it is.. And i don't think
 CO> it's a science fiction in nature kind of show.. Since he wasn't
 CO> abducted and have his memory erased.  Anyways, i think anyone that
 CO> considers to speak about Nowhwere man in here, along with having any
 CO> fans.. Are losers, and they should right away change to another show,
 CO> before other people attack you.. Because, nowwhere man sucks.

Oh, Chris, what a bright guy you are.  (not)

You are certainly welcome to your opinion, and while NM is not the
best show on TV it is still darn good.  Perhaps it's just over your
head.  Not enough shoot outs, car chases and explosions.

I'll grant you that it is not science fiction.  I don't think anyone
every claimed it was.  It's definately part fantasy, making it
appropriate for this newsgroup.  It's mostly an adventure / drama with
some wierdness thrown in for good measure.

Also, he did not have his memory erased.  Only his past.  (Or, I
should say, records of his past.)  Shows how much you're paying
attention...

        Frank

... Fearlessly the idiot faced the crowd -- smiling...
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12
 * Origin: The Bailey Information Exchange BBS, 28.8k v.fc  (1:104/825.0)

Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 191 of 423
 From : Frank Swarbrick                     1:104/825       .òp 05 .åê 95 21:04
 To   : All
 Subj : Red Dwarf
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12  92-0022
My local PBS station just started showing the show recently, starting
with the first episode a few months ago.  At first I thought it was
really stupid, and while it still is...  it's still a lot of fun.  The
most recent episode I saw was "Stasis Leak" and man, it was a riot!!!
I was ROTF when Cat attacked that woman's fur shawl!!!

Anyway, I am wondering if my station is not showing them quite in
order.  I saw "Kryten" about three or four episodes ago, but he hasn't
been seen since.  Is "Kryten" before or after "Stasis Leak"?  Better
yet, can someone post all the episodes in order?

        Frank

... "So lock on to my signal, and BEAM ON DOWN!"
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12
 * Origin: The Bailey Information Exchange BBS, 28.8k v.fc  (1:104/825.0)

Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 192 of 423
 From : James Woodcock                      3:620/264       .îí 04 .åê 95 13:55
 To   : All
 Subj : Re: Seaquest 2032
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 SM> Seaquest 2032 has been cancealed. No reason known.

HEY!

If Amblin have dropped Seaquest, will they now go ahead with Doctor Who?

James


--- FMail 1.02
 * Origin: Deaf in one eye! (Solaris BBS 61-6-253-3704) (3:620/264)

Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 193 of 423
 From : Todd Sullivan                       1:202/720.3     .òp 05 .åê 95 15:48
 To   : Frank Swarbrick
 Subj : canadian stuff
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Whoa, Cool!  Frank Swarbrick and me are inna cat fight about "canadian stuff"!

 FS> On 11-30-95  11:07 Ambassador Todd Sullivan of the Minbari Federation
 FS> said:

 TS>> Whilst falling into the sun on 28 Nov 95, Jon Roth yelled to All:
 FS>
 JR>>         Im not sure where Forever Knight is based.  Does anyone know if
 JR>> it is Canadian or not?

 TS>> Yes it is; it's based and set in Calgary, Alberta.

 FS> Yipes!  Toronto, Ontario.

I can see that I'm going to get a lot back about this one.

I must have confused it; in one episode Calgary is mentioned and it stuck in my
mind.

Todd Sullivan

... "But mom, frogs are our *friends*!" --Calvin

-*- ASTG 1.9

--- Spot 1.3a Unregistered
 * Origin: Todd's Spot in the Continuum (1:202/720.3)

Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 194 of 423
 From : Todd Sullivan                       1:202/720.3     .òp 05 .åê 95 15:50
 To   : Andrew A. Bogachew
 Subj : Casting Pern
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Whoa, Cool!  Andrew A. Bogachew and me are inna cat fight about "Casting Pern"!

 AAB> Hi Todd!

 AAB>   [Tue Nov 28 1995 09:21] Todd Sullivan ==> Keith Stokes

 TS>> (and PernNet's creators were),

 AAB> Sorry - what is the PernNet ?

It *was* PernNet; it's BRIGADOON now.  It's still devoted to all things of Pern.
Legal problems over copyrights forced the change.

Todd Sullivan

... Program call to load Windows;  "Here, piggy, piggy, piggy!"

-*- ASTG 1.9

--- Spot 1.3a Unregistered
 * Origin: Todd's Spot in the Continuum (1:202/720.3)

Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 195 of 423
 From : Todd Sullivan                       1:202/720.3     .òp 05 .åê 95 15:54
 To   : The Raven
 Subj : B5 -- Coincidence?
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Whoa, Cool!  The Raven and Mark Jones are inna cat fight about "B5 --
Coincidence?"!

 MJ>> That's what it looked like to me, too.  (And I still think it was a
 MJ>> bad design for a space-going warship....)

 TR>      Yah.  But then, what would be a good design for a warship... a
 TR> sphere, maybe?

Then it would be "Death Star" and "Skylark of Space" rip-offs, wouldn't it?

Todd Sullivan

... Computers are tools, but the Amiga is a fine instrument.

-*- ASTG 1.9

--- Spot 1.3a Unregistered
 * Origin: Todd's Spot in the Continuum (1:202/720.3)

Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 196 of 423
 From : Sean McCormick                      1:226/1330      .åò 07 .åê 95 16:14
 To   : Nicola Theriault
 Subj : Accelerator
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
->    Had an idea for an interesting weapon; it would "harness and
-> package" ball
-> lightning and then fire it faster than the speed of light. How fast?
-> haven't worked that out yet. The target, upon successful strike,
-> would get younger.

    Interesting,but the heat of lightning would be so immense...I mean
come on,we're talking about several million volts of electricity.Be kind
of dangerous.But how can you project light faster than light?Isn't that
like impossible?

--- PCBoard (R) v15.21/5
 * Origin: The Lore Board - Mt. Vernon, Ohio - 1:226/1330 (1:226/1330.0)

Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 197 of 423
 From : The Raven                           1:363/309       .ÿò 08 .åê 95 05:36
 To   : Ken Mayes
 Subj : Sorry for eavedropping ..
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 KM> In the mid to late fifties there was a large nuclear waste
 KM> dumping site in the Ural mountains. Thousands of tons of nuclear waste
 KM> were dumped there. One day the waste concentrations reached such
 KM> proportions that they achieved critical mass and detonated destroying
 KM> the entire facility and polluting a sizable chunk of countryside.

     It just don't happen that way.  Putting barrels of waste into a pile and
letting them sit doesn't make a bomb.

     Jack Butler



... This phone booth reserved for Clark Kent.
--- Blue Wave/RA v2.20 [NR]
 * Origin: Forethought BBS -=- Orlando, FL -=- 407-679-6561 (1:363/309)

Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 198 of 423
 From : The Raven                           1:363/309       .ÿò 08 .åê 95 05:36
 To   : Richard Hudson
 Subj : Highlander
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 RH> Who is she. Is she an Immortal. if not does she know what he really
 RH> is.

     Its not a single "she".  Its a bunch of she's, and no, they aren't
Immortal.

     Jack Butler



... "Now everyone can see my true identity:  I'm Kilroy!" -- Styx
--- Blue Wave/RA v2.20 [NR]
 * Origin: Forethought BBS -=- Orlando, FL -=- 407-679-6561 (1:363/309)

Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 199 of 423
 From : The Raven                           1:363/309       .ÿò 08 .åê 95 05:36
 To   : Richard Hudson
 Subj : Highlander:  New Season
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 RH> Xaiver St. Cloud As a black peoson, I wish that there were more black
 RH> villians like him. He was intelligent,suave and inpeccibaly dressed.
 RH> Plus it took several weeks for Duncan to finally take his head, which
 RH> made watching the Quickening even sweeter. He also had onle of the
 RH> greatest lines in ther series to date. "When you eat,eat well. When
 RH> you make love, make it last a long time. And when you kill, kill for
 RH> pleasure" That line was perfect for him and in fact, alot of the
 RH> really good evil Immortal.

     I think his best line was "I don't sleep with virgins, and I don't kill
children", responding to Duncan's first challenge to fight him back in 16--
something or other...

     Personally, my favorite of the villains are (in no particular order)
Kalas, Xavier St. Cloud, and Kuyler.


 RH> So do you like the Animated series.

     Under no circumstances.

     Jack Butler




... "Different strokes for different folks." -- Xavier St. Cloud
--- Blue Wave/RA v2.20 [NR]
 * Origin: Forethought BBS -=- Orlando, FL -=- 407-679-6561 (1:363/309)

Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 200 of 423
 From : The Raven                           1:363/309       .ÿò 08 .åê 95 05:36
 To   : Marc Zingarelli
 Subj : Methos
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 MZ> Well Methos is back and with the tagline of the century.
 MZ> "Talk about the blind leading the visually challenged"  I about rolled
 MZ> out of  the chair.  Any word on how long he'll be around.  I think
 MZ> there's more to  him than meets the eye though.

     Oh, this episode was chock full of taglines.  I think my favorite was
"Naive.  Naive and stupid."  Right after Duncan failed what Mark Jones called
the "Mongolian Intelligence Test" and handed Methos his sword.
     Peter Wingfield is going to be in a couple of episodes this season.
And there's a lot more to Methos than meets the eye.  Before this episode,
all we had really seen was "Adam Pierson, Watcher".  Now we are beginning to
see that Methos has a ruthless streak a mile wide, which is perhaps how he's
been around so long.

     Jack Butler



... "You may live a thousand years."    "As a ten year old.  Perfect."
--- Blue Wave/RA v2.20 [NR]
 * Origin: Forethought BBS -=- Orlando, FL -=- 407-679-6561 (1:363/309)

Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 201 of 423
 From : The Raven                           1:363/309       .ÿò 08 .åê 95 05:36
 To   : Marc Zingarelli
 Subj : Renewal
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
     You were asking me about renewal.  Here's the word I've gotten.  This
has yet to be confirmed, but I've heard it from multiple sources, all of them
usually reliable.  Also, it just sounds like something they might do.

     You may have noticed, if you've seen an episode list for this season,
that there seems to be less episodes this season than last.  This is true,
there are.
     Negotiations for a fifth season are underway.  If they go through, the
last half of the season will continue as planned and the remainder of the
episodes will be produced.  The fifth season will be the last one, and will
end with the Final Fight between the last two Immortals.
     And no, the last two does not necessarily include Duncan.  Or Connor,
for that matter.
     Anyway, if negotiations fall through, the end will happen *this* season.
The final episodes for the season will go into production with an entirely
different bent and storyline.  And in the last episode, the last two will
fight.
     There will be no formal announcement to the public about which way the
series is going.  But we (the audience) will be able to tell immediately
what is going on by the episodes themselves.

     My reaction to all of this?  Either way, cool.

     Jack Butler




... "Duncan MacLeod knows everybody." -- Kalas
--- Blue Wave/RA v2.20 [NR]
 * Origin: Forethought BBS -=- Orlando, FL -=- 407-679-6561 (1:363/309)

Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 202 of 423
 From : The Raven                           1:363/309       .ÿò 08 .åê 95 05:36
 To   : Anne Hardcastle
 Subj : Immortals List  1
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 AH> Do you have a list of episodes by season?  When USA shows them out of
 AH> order, we are always scrambling to figure out what season we are in.

     No, I don't.  Sorry about that.

     Jack Butler



... "Sorry it worked out this way, MacLeod." -- Joe Dawson
--- Blue Wave/RA v2.20 [NR]
 * Origin: Forethought BBS -=- Orlando, FL -=- 407-679-6561 (1:363/309)

Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 203 of 423
 From : The Raven                           1:363/309       .ÿò 08 .åê 95 05:36
 To   : Chris Ogniben
 Subj : Highlander
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 CO> I know there was series, then a movie, then there seems to be
 CO> another series.  With a different actor as Mcloud.

     Actually, there was a movie, then a series, and then another movie.
(The order it goes in is "Highlander" (the film), "Highlander: The Series",
and "Highlander 3: The Final Dimension".)
     Also, the same actor is playing MacLeod as always, regardless of which
MacLeod you are talking about.  Christopher Lambert plays Connor MacLeod
(the MacLeod from the films) and Adrian Paul plays Duncan MacLeod (the
MacLeod of the series).  They are two entirely different MacLeods.

     As for new episodes, yes, there are.  The show is currently in the
middle of its fourth season.  It is a syndicated show, so you have to check
your local listings to find out the exact broadcast time, but there's a new
episode every week.

     Jack Butler



... "A man's got to live." -- St. Cloud "Not necessarily." -- MacLeod
--- Blue Wave/RA v2.20 [NR]
 * Origin: Forethought BBS -=- Orlando, FL -=- 407-679-6561 (1:363/309)

Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 204 of 423
 From : The Raven                           1:363/309       .ÿò 08 .åê 95 05:36
 To   : Chris Ogniben
 Subj : Questions, But Are T
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 CO> Since, i think being a human really sucks.. And that, no matter what you
 CO> do in life, yo always find another object that has the ability to kill
 CO> you, or to kill someone else.

     And?  Sorry, but every other lifeform on this planet is in the same
boat as we are.  And as for human bodies being weak, that depends on what
you are comparing us to.  Your average human can kill most animals on
the planet quite easily.
     Radiation?  Why worry about it?  We get bombarded with large amounts
of radiation 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, every day we are alive.  You
can't avoid it unless you live in a mine shaft, and even then radiation will
find you.  My point is that radiation is not necessarily the bugaboo that
the Earth First wackos want everyone to thing it is.



 CO> I think, pretty soon we must find a more safre energy structure, that
 CO> has the less tendancy to kill us.

     No such animal.  Even muscle power can kill you.

     Jack Butler



... "We make war that we may live in peace." -+ Aristotle
--- Blue Wave/RA v2.20 [NR]
 * Origin: Forethought BBS -=- Orlando, FL -=- 407-679-6561 (1:363/309)

Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 205 of 423
 From : Brion Lienhart                      1:213/700.2     .ÿò 08 .åê 95 08:36
 To   : Phill Ash
 Subj : 3rd Stone From The Sun
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On Tue Dec 05, Phill Ash said to Frank Swarbrick:

 FS> Does anyone have any idea what this new comedy Third Stone From The
 FS> Sun (I think that's the name) is all about?  I know it stars John
 FS> Lithgow and has something to do with aliens on Earth, but that's about
 FS> it.

 -PA>        The reports I read last August mentioned that it dealt with an
 -PA>        exterrestrial (Lithgow) who holds a job as Physics Professor
 -PA>at
 -PA>        a Major University... dunno...

You don't suppose he's from Planet X by way of the 8th dimension, do you?


--- QM v1.31
 * Origin: Ministry of Peace - Carson City, NV (1:213/700.2)

Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 206 of 423
 From : The Raven                           1:363/309       .óá 09 .åê 95 00:50
 To   : Elizabeth H. Penrose
 Subj : canadian stuff
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 EHP> The TV series "The Starlost" was videotaped in Canada.

     Mention The Great Beast Not, Foul Heretic!

     <G>

     Jack Butler



... "Mention "The Starlost" again and I'll kill you." -- Harlan Ellison
--- Blue Wave/RA v2.20 [NR]
 * Origin: Forethought BBS -=- Orlando, FL -=- 407-679-6561 (1:363/309)

Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 207 of 423
 From : Otto Cordray                        1:106/1393      .ÿò 08 .åê 95 21:00
 To   : Frank Swarbrick
 Subj : SF Comedy
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
I haven't seen as much of Red Dwarf as I'd like.

Do you recall an American series from the late '70's called "Quark"?
In addition to being a comedy it was a cross between Star Trek and
Red Dwarf (subject-matter-wise anyway; it certainly predates Red Dwarf.)
It had a requisite Spock-like character (this one was a plant in human form)
and the spaceship was a garbage scow. It wasn't zillions of years in the
future, though, and "Quark" was the Captain of the ship.

I thought it was pretty funny (of course, I was a dweebish 13 year-old at the
time) but there were only a few episodes (max. 10 or so.)

Otto

--- Maximus/2 2.01wb
 * Origin: The Round Table, BBS of Gulf Coast Mensa * 922-1393 (1:106/1393)

Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 208 of 423
 From : Jackson Raster                      1:3637/77       .åò 07 .åê 95 21:40
 To   : The Raven
 Subj : HITLER'S BRAIN
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
As in, "not"?
<grin>
-JTR
---
--- WcToss for WildCat!  V1.8 [UnReg]
 * Origin: Coles Kingdom BBS 615-657-5708 14.4KBPS! (1:3637/77)

Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 209 of 423
 From : Todd Sullivan                       1:202/720.3     .åò 07 .åê 95 13:03
 To   : Dkimmel
 Subj : HITLER'S BRAIN
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Whoa, Cool!  Dkimmel and The Raven are inna cat fight about "HITLER'S BRAIN"!

 TR>>     His unreasoning hatred of Stanley Kubrick is just as interesting as
 TR>> your unreasoning idolization of the man.

 D> What a bizarre statement on your part.  Where did I engage in
 D> "unreasoning idolization of the man?"  Perhaps you should just stay out
 D> of topics where you clearly don't know what's going on.

Ok, Dk.  You're entering flame territory, and Nicolai is going to give you one
of his warnings, if he hasn't already.

If you and Jack are going to go 'round and 'round on this one, please take it
somewhere else; it's not fair to the rest of us to pay good phone money for this
area, and get this *DRECK* as an unwanted "bonus".

Todd Sullivan

... "There's a frood who really knows where his towel is."

-*- ASTG 1.9

--- Spot 1.3a Unregistered
 * Origin: Todd's Spot in the Continuum (1:202/720.3)

Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 210 of 423
 From : Karen Rodgers                       1:202/1313      .ÿò 08 .åê 95 05:59
 To   : Shawn Merrow
 Subj : Last Message
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 -=> Quoting Shawn Merrow to All <=-

 SM> I left a word out of my laste message sorry.
 SM> I think Sci-Fi (fans) should support Sci-Fi tv.

 Only if its well written, and acted.  I refuse to support another _Lost In
 Space_, ever!

 Karen

... Klingon prompt:  Strike any user when ready.
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

--- GrayQwkMail 2.1
 * Origin: Written Worlds BBS - 619.697.4073 (1:202/1313)

Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 211 of 423
 From : Karen Rodgers                       1:202/1313      .ÿò 08 .åê 95 05:59
 To   : Shawn Merrow
 Subj : Sci-Fi TV
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 -=> Quoting Shawn Merrow to All <=-

 SM> 1. How many of you would be willing to watch a show where it 5 to 10
 SM> hours of air time showing debates, meetings, conferances, and large
 SM> amounts of lab work to solve just a basic problem. And rember when

 _Andromeda Strain_ was all these things, and had you on the edge of your
 seat.  You stand corrected.

 SM> this is going on you going have problems with brusied egos and other
 SM> problems between the personel.

 If it is well written, that's entertainment, if not, it is, as you point
 out, merely boring.  The heart and soul of *ANY* good show are cast and
 writers, over the years we've seen several eventually overcome the formula
 problem (sitcom, cop show, etc.).  I can list several ongoing series from
 different genres that stood out because of these elements.  Star Trek,
 Northern Exposure, M*A*S*H, Hill Street Blues, and St. Elsewhere, these
 are just off the top of my head.  The core boils down to conflict and the
 human condition, if you can't produce both or even one, the story fails.
 Science fiction is window dressing, as is a western, a cop story, etc.
 Even the best novels have these qualities, look at the best of the
 westerns, the best straight fiction, spy novels, all those stories make
 you care about the characters, and hope they'll live through the end of the
 book.

 SM> Real science is a slow and painstaken process. It require a large
 SM> amount of work. This is not glamories or entertaing. The only pepole

 Don't forget the occasional lucky guess.

 SM> specultive Science Fiction. Most fans will envatualy branch out into
 SM> harder science fiction and science. Becuse of this I think that Sci-Fi
 SM> should do there best to support Sci-Fi tv.

 Yes, but only if its *good* sci fi.  I will not sit through a bad program
 just because its in my favorite genre.  That only encourages more bad genre
 programs, and there are quite enough rotten shows floating around, thank
 you.

 Your post talks about Seaquest, (I accidently deleted that part) the only
 episode I saw looked like a repeat of Voyage To The Bottom Of The Sea,
 complete with monster, the giant ice crocodile or some such hooie, only not
 as well done.  I cannot, and will not, support a show that takes their plot
 ideas from Irwin Allen, it insults my intelligence and sensibilities.
 That's fine for kid's sci fi, not for the adult fan.  I also found nothing
 about the characters to make me stick with it, and I like Roy Shider (sp?),
 its just not an interesting show to me.

 Karen

... "Commander, there is no careful way to question a Klingon." - Odo
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

--- GrayQwkMail 2.1
 * Origin: Written Worlds BBS - 619.697.4073 (1:202/1313)

Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 212 of 423
 From : Tommy Kellerman                     2:205/356       .òp 05 .åê 95 22:52
 To   : James Walton
 Subj : Writing Contest
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
In a message dated 21-Nov-95 05:43:38, James Walton wrote:

 JW> PARSEC is proud to announce its Second Annual Science
 JW> Fiction writing contest, in conjunction with ConFluence '96.

 JW> This contest is open to anyone (pro or amateur) who submits

Is it open to europeans as well ?

/// -Tommy K.- \\\   *- "Our mission - to boldly go where no man has gone
                        before... -*

--- Xenolink 1.0 Z.3, EmacsXL.4
 * Origin: NoLimit, Furudal +46-258-10071 (2:205/356)

Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 213 of 423
 From : Tommy Kellerman                     2:205/356       .òp 05 .åê 95 16:40
 To   : Chris Ogniben
 Subj : Nuclear space drives
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 CO>    There are no wormholes in real space.  There are Black Holes, but,
 CO> even those would tear a ship apart, since nothing can go through a
 CO> black hole.  So, there probably won't be inter stellar travel.

Well, is really everything proven about interstellar travel.
Maybe wormholes can't be seen or scanned, NOW THAT'S SCIENCE FICTION !
Of course, you got a point, but we don't know everything about space
yet.


/// -Tommy K.- \\\

--- Xenolink 1.0 Z.3, EmacsXL.4
 * Origin: NoLimit, Furudal +46-258-10071 (2:205/356)

Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 214 of 423
 From : Robert Parson                       1:3822/1        .åò 07 .åê 95 15:45
 To   : Steven Wesen
 Subj : RE: SEAQUEST 2032
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
STEVEN had this to say

 SW> Wrong  Sliders wil be starting up next January and that is straight
 SW> from Fox.

I'm well aware of this.  I'm not sure what I said that may have implied
otherwise.


 SW> don't believe the Hype......
 SW> Sliders live and Seaquest Dives...

Don't beleive any hype.  Including the Sliders hype.

 * Silver Xpress V4.3 SW23473

--- QScan/PCB v1.17b / 01-0162
 * Origin: Jackalope Junction 501-785-5381 Ft Smith AR (1:3822/1)

Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 215 of 423
 From : Star Hawk                           1:362/708.6     .òp 05 .åê 95 17:40
 To   : Jo De Man
 Subj : Weber
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
From my perch I saw this come out of the gravity well from Jo De Man:

  [> Jo De Man [> What is libertyCon ? (probably a stupid question, but
  [> hey, I am over here in Belgium)

     Whoops!  OK, LibertyCon is a small limited attendence SF/Fantasy convention
held in my city, Chattanooga, Tennessee, every summer [it's the second
convention we have in town, the first being ChattaCon].

  [> Star Hawk [> Unsure if there will be any more novels set in the
  [> Starfire RPG universe, but it's always possible.

  [> Jo De Man [> Still has a lot of potential. Starfire RPG ??? What
  [> is that all about ?

     I may have misspoken about it being a RPG type game, i've never seen it
myself, but an ad for the books states: "See this strategy game come to
explosive life in these grand space adventures!"  So it seems that the game came
out first and the novels were written from the basis of the game.

  [> Jo De Man [> -Oath of Swords (hope he writes a sequel to that one)

  [> Star Hawk [> You're in luck, he said that there's more of Bahzell's
  [> travels ........ the cover artist blew it with the ears of Bahzell
  [> and Brandark;  hradani ears are more like those of a fox, and are
  [> closer to the top of the head rather than the sides.

  [> Jo De Man [> He looked a bit like an overgrown vulcan...

     Face it, the only thing the artist really got right was the size... <g>

  [> Jo De Man [> -Mutineers' Moon & Armageddon Inheritance (gimme more!)

  [> Star Hawk [> There may be one more book in this `universe' to be
  [> written sometime in the future.

  [> Jo De Man [> Heard his next book (inheriters of the empire or
  [> something like that) is in this series (sounds good)

     Well and good.

  [> Jo De Man [> [Path of the Fury]  <sigh> We can only hope ... It
  [> ended in a nice setup for further <sigh> adventures

     If the Muse strikes...

  [> Jo De Man [> [Harrington series] .......... Whish he would get her
  [> back in command of a Manticorian ship ... He might want to ease
  [> off the duelling bit for a while ... She certainly sliced op the
  [> bad guys in the last book...

     She'll be back on a Manticorian command deck... it just may take a while
[maybe next book, or the book after].

  [> Star Hawk [> ... might want to pick up three books written by
  [> Steve White [Weber's coauthor on the Starfire books], THE
  [> DISINHERITED, LEGACY, and DEBT OF AGES, from Baen Books.

  [> Jo De Man [> I think I read disinherited a long time ago.. could
  [> you say what the plot was about ?

     While the American/Russian Space Force terraforming of Mars is reaching a
critical stage, the political situation back on Earth is turning their backs to
space.  Then the aliens arrive; human aliens, handsome and pacifist, with bad
news: a totally alien militant race is attacking them and they need help.  Now
the Space Force has something worse to worry about than going out of business...

  [> Jo De Man [> Am i mistaken or does he drag in some arthurian stuff
  [> in it ??

     Starting with the second book.

  [> Jo De Man [> PS : try some of the wing commander books (like in the
  [> computer game) Not the fist one by lackey or the last one (heart of
  [> the tiger) I think you'll like them ...

     Already have some of them.  I wasn't all that impressed with them.

                                        Star Hawk, the EchoTrickster

--- MacWoof Eval:23Dec93
 * Origin: William Bull Hedrick @ Hawk Haven's Orbital Point (1:362/708.6)

Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 216 of 423
 From : David Johnston                      1:342/14        .åò 07 .åê 95 00:53
 To   : Chris Ogniben
 Subj : Highlander
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
-> I know there was series, then a movie, then there seems to be another
-> series.. With a different actor as Mcloud.. And, now i don't know if

Actually the movie came first.  Then came a series featuring a different
actor from the movies (and a character with remarkable similarities but
a different first name).

--- PCBoard (R) v15.21/100
 * Origin: Freddy's Place - Edm. AB - 28.8K (403) 456-4241 (1:342/14)

Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 217 of 423
 From : Michael Harper                      1:123/10        .cê 03 .åê 95 23:22
 To   : ROBERT LIDGREN
 Subj : KUBRICK COMMENTS
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 > Genius-level work often emanates from those with big egos.

John Huston was egotistical, too, and he's one of my favorite directors. To my
perception, Kubrick has always had the attitude that his shit doesn't stink.
That bugs me. A little humility from the man would do wonders for my opinion of
him.

 > Personnally, I think Kubrick's "Dr. Strangeloe" is the
 > quintessential
 > critique of the Cold War - mosre powerful precisely BECAUSE
 > it is done
 > using satire.

 > His "Paths of Glory" is one of the finest anti-war films in
 > the genre.

Agreed on both counts. I'm not disputing the man's skill, I'm just saying that I
personally don't like him, and I don't consider him an artist without peer. He
has done some things that were astonishing, and he's done some things that were
at best dog puke. High-dollar dog pu, but still dog puke. Even Shakespeare had
his off days. So did Hitchcock. Kubrick's not immune. He just doesn't like to
own up to his mistakes.

 > 2001: A Space Odyssey was, for its time (1968) an amazing
 > technical tour
 > de force.  Sure, it's plot left millions of question but
 > sometimes
 > that's a very good thing.  Since then science fiction has not
 > explored
 > such themes about the "ultimate meaning" with anywhere near
 > the
 > craftsmanship.

And here we come to another pet peeve concerning this man. Kubrick is a
DIRECTOR. He tells actors what to do. Sometimes he's a producer, and sometimes
he writes. He doesn't do everything on a film. Without Doug Trumbull's effects
and Arthur Clarke's story, 2001 wouldn't exist. Kubrick may have been the
ramrod, but 2001 was made by a large, very talented team. Not by one egotistical
auteur.

The auteur approach is something that really bugs me bad. A lot of filmmakers
have this attitude, and it's annoying. No matter how good they are, they have
nothing without the writers, actors, effects people, and all the other myriad
laborers behind the scenes. Someone should remind them of this...

 > I guess what was most unsettling was that the author could
 > stand NO
 > DIFFERENCE OF OPINION from others.  Sometimes it is a good
 > thing that
 > there is a degree of ambiguity in life and that because
 > someone
 > disagrees with you does not necessarily mean they are idots.

Agreed. I don't think Dkimmel and/or whoever else is a moron because they
disagree with me. I reserve the right to my opinion, and respect their right to
their opinion. 'Nuff said.
--- RA/FD/FMail
 * Origin: The Electric Fox - Memphis,TN, U.S.A.  1-901-327-1008 (1:123/10)

Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 218 of 423
 From : Frank Glover                        1:2613/477      .åò 07 .åê 95 21:37
 To   : David Johnston
 Subj : Re: Seaquest 2032
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

DJ>  under-rated SF TV show I ever saw, was Mann and Machine.

   Agreed. Started to record the first episode of that, then changed my mind and
simply watched it in real-time.

   *Still* kicking myself for not having done so.....

   Frank


--- QuickBBS 2.80 GoldBase (Zeta-1)
 * Origin: The Matrix Data Bank BBS, Rochester, Ny (1:2613/477)

Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 219 of 423
 From : Lawrence E Dunlap                   1:106/2927      .óá 09 .åê 95 12:09
 To   : James Woodcock
 Subj : Re: Seaquest 2032
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Perhaps they will wait longer to develop the plot and script. Dr. Who is a
sci-fi production that will be compared to the British editions of the show, so
caution by Amblin is perhaps warranted in light of their absymal lack of
creative capacities in seaQuest. More importantly, whichever production company
films the American Dr. Who needs assurances that Ambiln will do more work more
often to learn what is *great* SF and be less obstructive with those who
actually know what Dr. Who actually is and what they want to accomplish by
making an American Dr. Who.

My chief problem was seaQuest was a too limited in scope to be a weekly TV
series. A number of SF shows would have been better as a ongoing series of SF TV
movies because their creative focus and concept wasn't very adaptable to weekly
SF TV but as a set of five to nine two hour movies a season, Battlestar
Galactica would have lasted far longer than two seasons. 26 episodes was asking
too much of audiences.

Alien Nation will probably continue as SF TV movies because there's too little
capacity for new stories to make 26 episodes each year.

What is the problem is that Follywood is made of people who weren't able to
function in the subjects in high school and college where they could
*understand* the works of SF well enough to understand why their previous SF
shows have proven to be creatively unsatisfying or a total failure.

For most SF, some literacy in the sciences and technology is supremely necessary
to understand the difference between Science Fiction and Science Fantasy.  Most
Follywood executives, producers and writers are functionally incapable of
operating in a environment where scientific literacy is necessary to their TV
work. This is also why bad technobabble is so grotesque, because the executive
producer isn't very scientifically literate enough to write credible
technobabble that isn't contradictory to itself or known science.

Star Trek proved that a doctorate in physics isn't really necessary, just
reasonable flexibility in the creative producers and flexibility in the studio
that is making the show.

Feedback, anyone?


Lawrence E Dunlap
(1:106/2927)
* SPITFIRE v3.5
--- Alexi/Mail 2.02b (#10000)
 * Origin: Computer Living F'n BBS-Houston, TX 713-444-2927 (1:106/2927)

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 Msg  : 220 of 423
 From : Chris Carter                        1:105/290.23    .óá 09 .åê 95 06:13
 To   : The Raven
 Subj : B5 -- Coincidence?
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On (03 Dec 95) The Raven wrote to Chris Carter...

re: JMS being influenced by things...

 TR> Neither do I, but I do believe that it is possible that his
 TR> own work has been inspired by someone else's work.  It only
 TR> makes sense, after all, and only a fool would ever suggest
 TR> otherwise.

Take music for example.  A friend of mine once proposed that was
impossible to be a musician in the US without having been influenced
in some way by Bach and Duke Ellington.  Now I'm not going to
comment as to whether or not I believe this particular claim, but
the point is that no matter how close one gets to originality these
days, one is still standing on the shoulders of at least a few
giants.  Go back to the Stone Age.  Now there's some original
storytelling.  (A series of grunts, translated into English. -- "Me
kill great horned thing."  "Yeah, you big hero.  Save tribe from
great horned thing.")

 TR> I have to tell you of a conversation I had with Pat Cadigan
 TR> once. I was telling her about a novel I was in the process of
 TR> writing when suddenly she interrupted me and asked me if I'd
 TR> read her novel Mindplayers.  (I hadn't.) It turns out that my
 TR> novel and hers had the same plot line, and even shared some
 TR> details.

Parallel development can be a real bitch, eh... <g>

I've often thought that I'd like to try and write something.  The
thing that always stops me is my own lack of knowledge.  I've always
felt that without being very well-read in the genre of interest, I'd
be too likely to engage in cliche and repetition.  Part of trying to
approach originality is knowing a lot of what has gone before.  You
might use aspects of what you've learned, but you also know what not
to use.

Chris - carter@teleport.com


... "Stop thief!  Bring back the lint from my navel!"

--- PPoint 1.98
 * Origin: Grid Epsilon Coords. 105x290x23 (1:105/290.23)

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 Msg  : 221 of 423
 From : Chris Carter                        1:105/290.23    .óá 09 .åê 95 06:23
 To   : Nicolai Shapero
 Subj : Accelerator
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On (04 Dec 95) Nicolai Shapero wrote to Nicola Theriault...

 NT> Had an idea for an interesting weapon; it would "harness and
 NT> package" ball lightning and then fire it faster than the speed
 NT> of light. How fast? haven't worked that out yet. The target,
 NT> upon successful strike, would get younger.

 NT> Any opinions?

 NS> Plergb?

It is for ideas like this that Marvel created the Fantastic Four and
Doctor Doom. <g>

Chris - carter@teleport.com


... "If it's the Captain's Mess, let him clean it up!"

--- PPoint 1.98
 * Origin: Grid Epsilon Coords. 105x290x23 (1:105/290.23)

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 Msg  : 222 of 423
 From : Chris Carter                        1:105/290.23    .óá 09 .åê 95 06:29
 To   : Terry Bennett
 Subj : Gibson
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On (05 Dec 95) Terry Bennett wrote to Daniel Nystrom...

 TB> Gibson is one of my favorite authors.  I read Neuromancer
 TB> twice, then Virtual Light and Burning Chrome.  I plan to read
 TB> Mona Lisa next after getting side tracked on Isaac Asimov'
 TB> robots.  I love the way Gibson brings hi tech to the street
 TB> level.  Pretty amazing to think this could all happen in the
 TB> not too distant future.

Since the Cyberpunk Trilogy is benefitted to at least a small degree
by being read in order of publication, I heartily recommend reading
_Count Zero_ before _Mona Lisa Overdrive_.

BTW, of the three, I think _Count Zero_ is the best.  A damn fine
read.

Chris - carter@teleport.com


... Not only am I a master of suspense, but...

--- PPoint 1.98
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 Msg  : 223 of 423
 From : Steen Christensen                   2:238/57.3      .ÿò 08 .åê 95 21:08
 To   : ROBERT LIDGREN
 Subj : nuclear
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Hejsa ROBERT!

28 Nov 95, sammensatte ROBERT LIDGREN til ML SANDS:

 RL> On the other hand, "nuclear fusion" does hold HUGE promise.  The
 RL> by-products--> water vapor.  It's unlikely YOU'LL ever see a car running

This is a truth with some big modifications, as the walls of the reactor core
gets very, very radioactive!

 RL> I tend to look even more seriously at solar power, wind power and tidal
 RL> power as nifty alternatives too.  Giant HYDRO projects simply won't fill

The only way solar power will make a diff. is IF we find a way to safly transfer
power from satelites to Earth.

Yours

Steen

--- GoldED 2.40
 * Origin: Black Fire Point  (2:238/57.3)

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 Msg  : 224 of 423
 From : Steen Christensen                   2:238/57.3      .ÿò 08 .åê 95 21:13
 To   : David Hilling
 Subj : books
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Hejsa David!

01 Dec 95, sammensatte David Hilling til Steen Christensen:

 SC>> Julian May
 DH>  Good stuff, huh? I thought for a while I was the only one reading her
 DH> work.

No way, I like her books. B.t.w. I had the impression that it was a man, and not
a woman?

 DH> Do you think her publishers will EVER release Magnificat? I've been
 DH>  following this series since The Many Colored Land and I really want to
 DH> know how it ends, dammit.

Sorry to ask, but what is Magnificat ? I'm currently awaiting the next book in
the serie with Jack the Bodyless and Metaconcert. (Can't remember the name)

Yours

Steen

--- GoldED 2.40
 * Origin: Black Fire Point  (2:238/57.3)

Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 225 of 423
 From : Nancy Crockett                      1:170/600       .óá 09 .åê 95 21:10
 To   : Tommy Kellerman
 Subj : Highlander
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 TK> I noticed your interest in the Highlander series
 TK> as well as the movies, and since I'm unable to
 TK> attend your "gathering" ( I live in Europe ) I
 TK> wanted to ask you about these T-shirts...

 TK> There isn't any to get around these parts, so I
 TK> just wanted to ask if maybe I could buy one or two
 TK> by mail?

Hello Tommy! Sorry you couldn't come to our "gathering", I guess that is a
little far to travel! You can buy several kinds of Highlander shirts, plus other
Highlander merchandise, thru the Highlander store. Here is the address to get a
catolog:
         Highlander: The Store                 Send $1.00 along with your
         3530 Wilshire Blvd. #1062             name and address to get the
         Los Angeles, Ca. 90010                catalog.

They have clothes, videos, audio tapes, posters, and other neat stuff. They did
not say what to send for foreign countries, so I guess if you can't get $1.00,
you could write to them and find out what to do. Also, for other merchandise
related to Adrian Paul, he has his own fan club which he uses to encourage
charity work from his fans. A portion of the membership dues and the merchandise
profits go to charity. The charity is picked by the fans each issue. There are
four issues a year for $15.00 You do not need to be a member to buy the
merchandise. His club address is:
       PEACE: The Adrian Paul Fan Club
       12439 Magnolia Blvd. #159
       North Hollywood, Ca. 91607

Send a SASE to the address to get a membership form and/or merchandise catalog.
He has shirts, hair ties, calendars, mugs, and more. While I'm giving you
addresses, I might as well give you the official Highlander club in Denver,
which put on the con I went to:
      The Gathering
      P.O. Box 123
      Aurora, Co  80040
Send a SASE to them for info as well.

There is a lot of info on America On Line, but I don't know if you can get that
there. There is a lot of fans that write in AOL, and Adrian has been on it live
twice. Jim Byrnes (Joe Dawson) has been on it, and so has Stan Kirsch (Richie
Ryan).
Let me know if I can be of any more assistance, and even if you just want to
comment on the shows! Have you seen the one with Adrian's butt shot yet?

Don't lose your head!

... Never purge files after three sleepless nights.

--- FMail/386 1.02
 * Origin: Tulsa Chat BBS-Tulsa, Ok-(918) 234-1352 (1:170/600)

Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 226 of 423
 From : Nancy Crockett                      1:170/600       .óá 09 .åê 95 21:22
 To   : Chris Ogniben
 Subj : Highlander
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 CO>    I am watching Highlander with a new actor for Mccloud.

I am assuming you are referring to Adrian Paul, who plays Duncan McCloud in the
television series. Christopher Lambert played Conner McCloud in the movies. In
the first show on the television series, they were both in it. They explained
that they were from the same clan, but 100 years apart. Conner learned about
being an immortal from Ramirez, (Sean Connery's character in the movies), Duncan
learned about being an immortal from Conner. Hopefully this clears that up for
you.

 CO> And, this is
 CO> on channel 17, USA.. Umm, apparently i don't watch the
 CO> only get hooked on it, for it's chivalry and sword action
 CO> scenes.. But,
 CO> the more i learn of it, i see that it deals with something
 CO> that is
 CO> kinda close to my sort of interests.. Since, i am a big fan
 CO> or person
 CO> that is really interested in the life of those chilvalry
 CO> years.  And,

I'm glad that you are taking interest in it, I think it is a great show! I will
tell you that USA is showing the shows out of order, even mixing the first and
second season. Someone told me that they will show second season for awhile, and
then they go back and pick up something from the first season. So if it seems
confusing, let me know and I will straighten it out for you. The swordfighting
is great, Adrian Paul knows 7 forms of martial arts and he is a professional
dancer, so he definitely has control of his actions. The swordmaster says there
is nothing Adrian can't do with a sword. The actor who plays Methos was into
fencing for awhile, so he also is familiar with sword play.
I bought a replica of the sword that Duncan uses in the show, it is a beautiful
sword. There are a lot of pretty carvings in the handle, and it is very well
balanced. I want to display it as soon as I find a wall mount.

 CO> show.. Might try to start watching the hour episode than
 CO> the sword
 CO> secens.. To learn of more.

Are you here in the Tulsa, Okla area? If you are, I have been trying to get
together a group of fans to share my pre-recorded euro-version videos of the
series with. If you aren't, well, keep watching and share with me what you like.
I love to talk about it!

... Brian Mulroney: Biggest syntax error in politic.

--- FMail/386 1.02
 * Origin: Tulsa Chat BBS-Tulsa, Ok-(918) 234-1352 (1:170/600)

Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 227 of 423
 From : Nancy Crockett                      1:170/600       .óá 09 .åê 95 21:33
 To   : Richard Sarner
 Subj : Highlander
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 RS> I am watching as I type. (Can you say typos?:) Bill Panzer
 RS> and Peter Wingfield were in a Q&A together and responded
 RS> that while the Watchers knew about Richie, Methos was still
 RS> a secret. Richie was not around to meet him. I almost am
 RS> glad of the reruns, it will give me a chance to catch up.

Well, I knew that noone but Duncan and Joe new about Methos, but since Richie
hangs around them so much, I figured Duncan would tell him something, because if
Richie should happen to let it leak about "Adam" being an immortal, the watchers
would take note...that could be bad. Since all of the watchers wear the tatoo on
their wrists, Richie could tell that Adam is a watcher. Wouldn't you think he
would ask questions when he could tell he was a watcher and an immortal?
Have you missed a lot this season? Did you get to see "Homeland", the first one
of the season, where McCloud went back to the highlands? Adrian directed that.
It was his first director experience. I thought he did very well. I liked that
episode. It was just on again this weekend. They will be showing the reruns, in
order, up until the last two new ones they just showed. So if you are counting
on seeing them in reruns, you will have to wait until the reruns start again in
March. They will show those last two, then start over again with "Homeland". I
can give you the whole schedule thru the end of April if you want. "Reluctant
Heroes" will be the last rerun this time at the end of January, then the next
new one will be "Timeless".

... "You don't want to marry me." Jenny

--- FMail/386 1.02
 * Origin: Tulsa Chat BBS-Tulsa, Ok-(918) 234-1352 (1:170/600)

Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 228 of 423
 From : Phill Ash                           1:275/160       .óá 09 .åê 95 07:22
 To   : Chris Ogniben
 Subj : Tosk
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE 1.1+

 CO> Hey whatever happen to Tosk, and are they ever going to let us know
 CO> if he was killed or captured in that universal game?  Or if he would
 CO> make a return trip to Ds9 for sanctuary, and to meet his good friend
 CO> O'Brien.

        I doubt we'll ever see him again...

                It'd mean they'd hafta pay the writer royalties.


Your pal:  PhlAsh
---
 þ PhlAshMail 1.0 þ Do we have to save the universe AGAIN?!?!
~~~ ReneWave v1.01 [NR]
--- GEcho 1.10+
 * Origin: * The Beast's Lair * (804)498-3070 * Va Beach VA * (1:275/160)

Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 229 of 423
 From : Rebecca Burns                       1:271/71        .óá 09 .åê 95 02:33
 To   : Ecarey
 Subj : RE: CANADIAN STUFF
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On 3 Dec 95 10:01am, Ecarey wrote to Todd Sullivan:

TS>> JR>         Im not sure where Forever Knight is based.  Does anyone know if
TS>> JR> it is Canadian or not?

TS>>Yes it is; it's based and set in Calgary, Alberta.

 E> Then why do they keep identifying the city they're in as "Toronto" ?
 E> Sorry, but based on onscreen evidence, the show is set in Toronto, not
 E> Calgary. At least, the characters believe they're in Toronto, and keep
 E> saying so.

    Yes, it is shot in Toronto.  It has been produced there since the first
    season.










... Merry Xmas, Happy Hanukah, Feliz Navidad, etc, etc, etc
 * Evaluation copy of Silver Xpress. Day # 104
 * Silver Xpress V4.01


--- PCBoard (R) v15.22/M 10 (08-29-95 1
 * Origin: On-Line with WBCB - (804) 865-4499 (1:271/71)

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 Msg  : 230 of 423
 From : Rebecca Burns                       1:271/71        .óá 09 .åê 95 02:33
 To   : Todd Sullivan
 Subj : RE: CANADIAN STUFF
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On 5 Dec 95 03:48pm, Todd Sullivan wrote to Frank Swarbrick:

 FS>> On 11-30-95  11:07 Ambassador Todd Sullivan of the Minbari Federation
 FS>> said:

 JR>>>         Im not sure where Forever Knight is based.  Does anyone know if
 JR>>> it is Canadian or not?

 TS>>> Yes it is; it's based and set in Calgary, Alberta.

 FS>> Yipes!  Toronto, Ontario.

 TS> I can see that I'm going to get a lot back about this one.

     You're not kidding on that one...

 TS> I must have confused it; in one episode Calgary is mentioned and it
 TS> stuck in my mind.

     Maybe the episode you're thinking about is the one where Nat's
     goddaughter is killed & the coroner who takes over the case used to work
     in Calagry....Maybe?
ÚÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ¬
¦Xpress User                                                     ¦
ÀÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÙ



... Merry Xmas, Happy Hanukah, Feliz Navidad, etc, etc, etc
 * Evaluation copy of Silver Xpress. Day # 104
 * Silver Xpress V4.01



--- PCBoard (R) v15.22/M 10 (08-29-95 1
 * Origin: On-Line with WBCB - (804) 865-4499 (1:271/71)

Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 231 of 423
 From : Michael Harper                      1:123/414       .åò 07 .åê 95 22:17
 To   : Gerry Normandeau
 Subj : HITLER'S BRAIN
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE 1.11+
My sources are fannish and apocryphal, and I trust them about as much as I trust
anybody, which is to say not much. Even less, since you've verified what I heard
from, among others, Leonard Maltin. Score one for you and Dk.

Still don't like Kubrick, though...

---
 * Origin:  Weyr Galifrey - Memphis, TN  +1.901.685.0017 (1:123/414)

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 Msg  : 232 of 423
 From : ROBERT LIDGREN                      1:134/10        .óá 09 .åê 95 11:26
 To   : KAREN RODGERS
 Subj : LAST MESSAGE
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
-> Only if its well written, and acted.  I refuse to support another
-> _Lost In Space_, ever!

Gee, even Dr. Smith and Will Robinson??
--- PCBoard 15.2
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 Msg  : 233 of 423
 From : ROBERT LIDGREN                      1:134/10        .óá 09 .åê 95 11:34
 To   : FRANK SWARBRICK
 Subj : X-FILES
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
-> As for victimization of children, what did you think of the opening
-> scene of "The Calusari" from last season, where the little kid got
-> hit by the train.  Now that, I admit, was teetering on exploitation,
-> but I still think it was well done.

Being a parent myself, I guess I have a very visceral reaction to kids
being victimized.  Having your own family does something to you which
brings out a very protective nature.  I guess "Oubliette" was especially
tough for me to take because a young woman was murdered in B.C. (the
province to the west of us) just recently and I feel for her family and
friends.  The story was "well done" but the subject matter will never be
"entertaining" for me.

The Calusari incident, likewise, was striking in its power.  Maybe
that's why Christ Carter does use this as a "hook" for the activities of
Scully and Mulder from time to time.  Impossible to watch and just
ho-hum the thing!

Cheers,
R.Lidgren

   ====================================================================
   | Robert Lidgren at: * THE INNER SANCTUM | * The Old Viking        |
   |                    * Writer, Teacher   | * Seeker of the Truth   |
   |  LOGICAL SOLUTIONS - BEST CALGARY BBS AND INTERNET SERVICE!      |
   | e-mail me at------------> robert.lidgren@bbs.logicnet.com        |
   | My Personal Web Site----> http://www.logicnet.com/robert.lidgren |
   ====================================================================
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Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 234 of 423
 From : ROBERT LIDGREN                      1:134/10        .óá 09 .åê 95 11:36
 To   : BRION LIENHART
 Subj : KUBRICK COMMENTS
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
-> I like to do a Dr. Strangelove, Fail Safe double feature sometimes.

That would be a double-whammy.

BTW:  I don't seem to have access to the entire SFFAN "Kubrick" thread.
What seems to have been the catalyst for all the fire and brimstone?
   ====================================================================
   | Robert Lidgren at: * THE INNER SANCTUM | * The Old Viking        |
   |                    * Writer, Teacher   | * Seeker of the Truth   |
   |  LOGICAL SOLUTIONS - BEST CALGARY BBS AND INTERNET SERVICE!      |
   | e-mail me at------------> robert.lidgren@bbs.logicnet.com        |
   | My Personal Web Site----> http://www.logicnet.com/robert.lidgren |
   ====================================================================
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Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 235 of 423
 From : ROBERT LIDGREN                      1:134/10        .óá 09 .åê 95 11:39
 To   : MARK DAVID
 Subj : NUCLEAR
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
-> Solar and wind power have been attempted in large-scale and they are
-> failures.
-> Nuclear power is the most cost-effective and nearly the safest.

Yeh, about as safe as "safe sex!"  No, nuclear fission will never be
safe enough.  Fusion...maybe.

Failures??  Hmm, could it be because the petroleum producers REGULARLY
undercut such research?  I wonder.

There is a bigger story here than the mere assertion that solar and wind
power are all failures.

Also geothermal energy and tidal-energy have never been adequately
exploited either.
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Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 236 of 423
 From : Shawn Merrow                        1:3407/14       .óá 09 .åê 95 15:47
 To   : Karen Rodgers
 Subj : Sci-Fi TV
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

-> Your post talks about Seaquest, (I accidently deleted that part) the
-> only episode I saw looked like a repeat of Voyage To The Bottom Of
-> The Sea, complete with monster, the giant ice crocodile or some such
-> hooie, only not as well done.  I cannot, and will not, support a show
-> that takes their plot ideas from Irwin Allen, it insults my
-> intelligence and sensibilities. That's fine for kid's sci fi, not for
-> the adult fan.  I also found nothing about the characters to make me
-> stick with it, and I like Roy Shider (sp?), its just not an
-> interesting show to me.

I would tell you give it another try since the one episode you saw was
one of thier worst. Though its to late the set is being auctioned off
this month ( 16/17? ).

--- QScan/PCB v1.16b / 01-0024
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 Msg  : 237 of 423
 From : David Johnston                      1:342/14        .óá 09 .åê 95 00:55
 To   : Star Hawk
 Subj : Weber
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
->    While the American/Russian Space Force terraforming of Mars is
-> reaching a
-> critical stage, the political situation back on Earth is turning
-> their backs to space.  Then the aliens arrive; human aliens, handsome
-> and pacifist, with bad news: a totally alien militant race is
-> attacking them and they need help.  Now the Space Force has something
-> worse to worry about than going out of business..

Hated it.  Everything was too...simple.  Pretty=good.  Ugly=bad.
Wouldn't it have been infinitely more interesting if humanity had to
come to the rescue of peaceful BEMs being attacked by evil pretty
people?

--- PCBoard (R) v15.21/100
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Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 238 of 423
 From : Darre LuAllen                       1:3637/1        .ÿò 08 .åê 95 17:02
 To   : Chris Ogniben
 Subj : Nowhere Man
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 On 12-02-95 Chris Ogniben wrote to Brandon Wolgast...

 CO>
 CO>    I can't believe this thing is in this conference as a discussion..
 CO> After all the people i been talking to.. I would think there would
 CO> harly be any fans of the show NoWhere Man.. Apparently it's stupid,
 CO> and
 CO> is the worst i ever seen for a whatever it is.. And i don't think it's
 CO> a science fiction in nature kind of show.. Since he wasn't abducted
 CO> and
 CO> have his memory erased.  Anyways, i think anyone that considers to
 CO> speak about Nowhwere man in here, along with having any fans.. Are
 CO> losers, and they should right away change to another show, before
 CO> other
 CO> people attack you.. Because, nowwhere man sucks.

 Your lack of experience in the SF field is showing.  The amount of
 technology to pull off a "total life erasure" in itself qualifies this
 show as SF.  Not to mention episodes like the one with the psychic boy.
 Everyone is entitled to their own opinion.  Whether you like the show or
 not, calling its fans losers just because they hold a different opinion is
 close-minded arrogance.  IMHO, that type of behavior has no place in fandom.
 As a disorganized society of SF fans, we all share a dream of things beyond
 the provable, beyond the mundane.  "We are singers of songs, dreamers of
 dreams." (I cannot give proper credit for this quote, but it fits better
 than anything.  I'm sorry.)  This itself is a sign of an open mind.
 Remember, minds are like parachutes.  They only work when they are open.
___
 * OFFLINE 1.56 * Severe mental error...Low level brain format recommended.


--- Maximus/2 3.00
 * Origin: Cumberland BBS TN 615/526-3347 V34 (1:3637/1)

Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 239 of 423
 From : Marshall Barry                      1:104/169       .cê 10 .åê 95 01:10
 To   : All
 Subj : ANACONISM '96 NEWS RELEASE
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
  FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE                           1995-December-09
  Contact: Marshall Barry, Michelle Weisblat
           IBECC, P.O. Box 21766, Denver, CO  80221-0766
           303-426-1847 (voice), 303-429-0449 (fax)
           Anacon@IBECC.Org (e-mail)

  IBECC is pleased to announce that STEVE JACKSON
  ("Steve Jackson Games (GURPS, etc)", and the infamous
  "Secret Service Seizure") will be a SPECIAL GUEST at
  Anaconism '96, Feb 16-19, 1996 in Denver, Colorado.

  Steve plans on being at the convention for the entire time
  (less anything else we have arranged for him, of course) and
  will be involved in both the "Gaming" and the "Internet"
  tracks and panels.  He has been a guest here before, and will
  be participate in the "Steve Jackson - 5 Years Later" special
  panel dedicated to just what is going on in the online realm.

  He will, of course, also be involved in the gaming panels, doing
  demonstrations of new (and unique) games, and will be available
  for general discussions with convention members.

  Anaconism '96 is a "Hard Science / Science Fiction / Space"
  conference sponsored by IBECC - A Colorado Non-Profit Corporation,
  and is open to anyone wishing to become a member.  Membership
  rates are now $25.00 for the four-day convention and all events,
  and will be $30.00 after January, 1996 and "at the door" (if
  available).  IBECC members will receive a $4.00 discount on their
  Anaconism memberships.

  Our other Guests include:

  ** SPECIAL GUEST OF HONOR **
  Larry Niven - The Multiple Award-Winning Author of such works as:
  "Ringworld" and "Ringworld Engineers", "Integral Trees",
  "Protector", the "Dream Park" series (with Steven Barnes),
  "Mote in God's Eye" and "The Gripping Hand" (with Jerry Pournelle),
  and much, much more (well over 200 works and stories).

  ** Fan Guest **
  Randy Rau - from Phoenix, AZ, Randy has headed many conventions
  including Westercon and World Fantasy Con (several times).  He is
  a popular "scientist" and art collector, as well as having one of
  the largest personal collections of H.P. Lovecraft... not to
  mention a stuffed, cuddly(?!?), C'thulu (so, we won't mention it).
  Randy always seems to manage a surprise or two, so you really
  don't want to miss him!

  ** Authors and Others **

  Confirmed as of this time are:
  Edward Bryant - Author: SciFi (Early), Dark Fantasy
  P. D. Cacek - Author: Horror
  Greg Hyde - Author: SciFi
  Peter Kent - Author: Internet
  Rebecca Lyons - Author: SciFi, Fantasy
  Wil McCarthy - Author: Hard SF
  John Stith - Author: Hard SF
  Deena Larsen - Author: Hypertext fiction, SciFi
  Andrew Burt - SysAdmin: "nyx" - Publically Accessible Internet Site
  The Tacketts - SF Fen (Alburquerque) - What Fandom is All About!
  Rachel Drummond - Author/Personality: Electronic "Erotica" & Such

  -- with more being confirmed every day...

  EVENTS Include:
  Panels (Internet & Communications, Science Fiction, Space, etc.)
  Readings
  Music (Filk, Dances, Performances)
  Art Show
  Dealer's Room (Books, Services, Games, Findings, etc.)
          ... and much more!

  HOTEL INFORMATION:
  The Convention Hotel is the "Sheraton Denver West Hotel and
  Convention Center" located at 360 Union Blvd, in Lakewood, CO.
  We have arranged for special rates of $59.00 (plus tax) per night
  for convention members.  Please check out our limited "free
  membership" offer for those wishing to stay at the hotel (for
  information, contact IBECC [see below]).  Reservations may be
  made by calling the hotel at: (303) 987-2000 - please be SURE
  to mention IBECC or Anaconism to receive these special rates!

  Other SPONSORS include: The Rocky Mountain Space Society (North),
  the "Wings Over the Rockies" Museum, The Internet Store{tm}, and
  -x86- Computers, Inc.

  For information or membership,
  please see our World Wide Web pages at:
  http://www.abwam.com/ibecc/anacon
  or contact the convention committee at:
  Anacon@IBECC.Org
  or contact IBECC at:
  P.O. Box 21766, Denver, CO  80221-0766
  303-426-1847 (voice), 303-429-0449 (fax), 303-426-1866 (BBS)

                                  -30-

--- TMail v1.31.5
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Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 240 of 423
 From : Dale Campbell                       1:278/118       .åò 07 .åê 95 18:52
 To   : Frank Swarbrick
 Subj : SAAB
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

-> I just now watched this last Sunday's episode of Space: Above and
-> Beyond, "Eyes."  I've watched all the previous episodes and really
-> haven't been very impressed.  This was really baffling, especially
-> concidering the executive producers are Glen Morgan and James Wong,
-> the writers of many of the best episodes of The X-Files.
->
-> Anyway, I must say that this episode was *very* good.  For one thing,
-> it didn't really focus that much on the stars of the show.  Which is
-> not to say that they weren't an intregal part of the show, just that
-> they weren't the sole focus.  The show just seemed "bigger."
->
-> It was also a major "conspiracy" type episode.  It reminded me a lot
-> of The X-Files as well as Babylon 5, both of which are big on
-> conspiracy stuff.  In fact, parts of it were quite similar to the
-> like named episode of Babylon 5.  Probably just coincidence, but
-> still interesting.
->
-> One major thing I hadn't liked up to this point was that it was much
-> too violent.  Of course, it is supposed to be a war show, but I just
-> didn't like it.  This episode had some gunplay still, but not just
-> people with machine guns blowing up everyone in sight.
->
-> Also had some good twists and turns.
->
-> And to think, I was concidering stopping watching the show before
-> seeing this episode.  I'll give it another chance, and some of you
-> might want to do the same.  Of course, next week's looks to be back
-> to the same ol' same ol', but who knows.
->
-> Frank
->
-> ... Ignorance and prejudice - and fear - walk hand in hand.
-> ___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12
->
-> --- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12
->
-> * Origin: The Bailey Information Exchange BBS, 28.8k v.fc
-> (1:104/825.0)

Hi my name is dale, I also loved that episoded of SAAB. I wanted to know
what you thought about the other episodes which followed. Also do you
watch Deadly Games, I love it, and do you like it. I'll be waiting for
your answer.

Dale

--- QScan/WC v1.18b / 01-0574
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Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 241 of 423
 From : Judy Hayes                          1:154/40        .cê 10 .åê 95 17:40
 To   : Phill Ash
 Subj : Re: Tosk
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

->Cursing at a broken Holoprojector Quoshara heard: Tosk

 CO> Hey whatever happen to Tosk, and are they ever going to let us know
 CO> if he was killed or captured in that universal game?  Or if he would
 CO> make a return trip to Ds9 for sanctuary, and to meet his good friend
 CO> O'Brien.

 PA> I doubt we'll ever see him again...

 PA> It'd mean they'd hafta pay the writer royalties.

Unless, of course, the new ep was written by the same writer.  Or unless
their contract says that any new characters are the property of Paramount,
to be used as they wish.

But, really, I think they were pretty much done with that character and there
simply is *not* a good reason to use him again.

      --Quoshara



... Take my advice, I don't use it anyway.
---
 * Origin: Anonymous BBS -=- Non plus Ultra -=- 414-251-2580 (1:154/40)

Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 242 of 423
 From : Tommy Kellerman                     2:205/356       .åò 07 .åê 95 22:41
 To   : Chris Banakos
 Subj : red dwarf
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
In a message dated 30-Nov-95 20:40:00, Chris Banakos wrote:

 CB> my name is chris banakos what is red dwarf?

A red dwarf is a small and hot sun, as far as I can tell.

Maybe Dave can fill you in on the rest... ?


/// -Tommy K.- \\\

--- Xenolink 1.0 Z.3, EmacsXL.4
 * Origin: NoLimit, Furudal +46-258-10071 (2:205/356)

Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 243 of 423
 From : Tommy Kellerman                     2:205/356       .åò 07 .åê 95 22:56
 To   : Todd Sullivan
 Subj : Nuclear space drives
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
In a message dated 01-Dec-95 09:34:07, Todd Sullivan wrote:

 TS> Whoa, Cool!  Chris Ogniben and Tommy Kellerman are inna cat fight about
 TS> "Nuclear space drives"!

Yeah, and I see you're kinda in to cleaning the claws yourself...    :)


 CO>    There are no wormholes in real space.  There are Black Holes, but,
 CO> even those would tear a ship apart, since nothing can go through a
 CO> black hole.  So, there probably won't be inter stellar travel.

 TS> That applies to static black holes; thr real model is for rotating ones.

After looking at some black-hole gravity figures, I think we can assume that
going into a black hole leads to nothing else than a swift death...

 TS> As for not being interstellar travel, it's a moot point at this time; we
 TS> don't have the unified field theory, which will be definitive.  About as
 TS> definitive as the idea that antimatter couldn't possibly exist...

Research is making progress every day. Things that we thought were impossible
yesterday is a reality today. Thus, it'll only be a matter of time before
we'll discover alternate ways of travelling.
About "wormholes" and anti-matter, I can only say this:

We don't know everything out there yet...     Far from.


/// -Tommy K.- \\\   *- "Look Ma' ! No head!!" Vive la France... -*
                                                       u  u
                                                       c  k
                                                       k  e
                                                          s

--- Xenolink 1.0 Z.3, EmacsXL.4
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Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 244 of 423
 From : Tommy Kellerman                     2:205/356       .åò 07 .åê 95 23:03
 To   : Anne Hardcastle
 Subj : Johnny Mnemonic
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Anne was writing this message, Dec-01 1995 to Ritchie when I barged in
unannounced:

 AH> I went to see the movie Johnny Mnemonic, when we went there were only two
 AH> other people in the theatre!!   It was pretty good if you are a fan of his
 AH> stuff and do alot of filling in the holes.  The visual representation of
 AH> the world he describes in the novels is for me very nice.  The plot of the
 AH> entire story is a bit goofy and our pal Mr. Wooden Actor Keanu is not the
 AH> best.  Some of it I liked alot, and some was bad (I guess that's true with
 AH> all movies, huh?).  Check it out, if you like WG at all it is worth $3 to
 AH> rent the video.

Just a question, what do you mean by "WG" ? Define, please...

I've seen half of "Johnny Mnemonic", and as a true Swede I must say that
Dolph Lundgren stole the show.

/// -Tommy K.- \\\

--- Xenolink 1.0 Z.3, EmacsXL.4
 * Origin: NoLimit, Furudal +46-258-10071 (2:205/356)

Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 245 of 423
 From : Tommy Kellerman                     2:205/356       .åò 07 .åê 95 23:05
 To   : Shawn Merrow
 Subj : Sci-Fi TV
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
In a message dated 02-Dec-95 01:30:00, Shawn Merrow wrote:

 SM> I think Sci-Fi (fans) should support Sci-Fi tv.

When you say "Sci-Fi TV", do you mean special series and movies in general,
or do you have some kind of dedicated TV-channel over there ?


/// -Tommy K.- \\\

--- Xenolink 1.0 Z.3, EmacsXL.4
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Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 246 of 423
 From : Barton Paul Levenson                1:129/26        .ÿò 08 .åê 95 20:03
 To   : David Hilling
 Subj : Favorites
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
I was there.  I was 9 when Armstrong stepped out on the Moon, and my parents
said they tried to wake me and couldn't.  I love space.  I hope we explore it
thoroughly.  But I doubt it will save human civilization.  It's just neat.

--- Maximus 3.00
 * Origin: SoundingBoard, Pittsburgh PA (1:129/26)

Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 247 of 423
 From : Myra I Fox                          1:123/10        .óá 09 .åê 95 07:57
 To   : Tony Trujillo
 Subj : Tom Holt & PTerry
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

-=>Quoting Tony Trujillo to Myra I Fox<=-

 MI> I read "Good Omens" not long ago and it was funny.

 TT> I read it just after you finished it and thought it was a
 TT> great collaboration. I'd love to see Terry and Neil get
 TT> together for another book or a sequel to GO. One of my
 TT> favorite lines was when The Demon and The Angel (on Earth)
 TT> were going to battle the combined forces of Heaven and Hell
 TT> and the Angel (who picked up a flaming sword) said to
 TT> Crowly, "I sure hope I can remember how to use this
 TT> thing!" :^)

"You can't second-guess ineffability, I always say". <Aziraphale>

It was a lot of fun... I still have "Small Gods" on hand that I
haven't read.

 MI> And I just read "Eric"

 TT> What did you think about this one? Jo told me she thought it
 TT> was OK but wasn't her favorite DW book. I think she said
 TT> something along the lines that she thought it was written
 TT> for younger audience/children.

I am not sure if that is what it was, but it was just a short little
book not as involved as the other Discworld books.  But, who could
resist a book with Rincewind and the Luggage?

 MI> I was checking out the new bookstore/coffee bar in town
 MI> called Borders.

 TT> We have a BORDERS BOOKS here in KC as well but it's so far
 TT> away from my house that I don't get to visit it often. I
 TT> really love the large selection but I tend to say closer
 TT> to this side of town when looking for books. However,

Same here, the Borders is not really close, but I had to check it
out - you know how it is <g>.  But Memphis has quite a good selection
of book stores, so I probably won't make it there very often.
Though they certainly had a great music selection too.  I found some
groups like The Tannahill Wavers, Battlefield Band, Silly Wizards and
other Celtic groups that usually are hard to find outside of mail
order.

 MI> I think I'll take the little, locally owned Deliberate Literate
 MI> as a favorite place to browse and have an espresso.

 TT> It's always nice to support the local smaller stores...never
 TT> hurts to keep the money "in town".

And the personal touch that the local stores have makes it worth
while.  There is a store here called Burke's that has been in business
since 1890 something. That is the store that supported John Grisham's
books before anyone knew who he was and he still does a book signing
there for every new book.

... "SOD YOU, THEN." - Death (TCoM)
--- RA/FD/FMail
 * Origin: The Electric Fox - Memphis,TN, U.S.A.  1-901-327-1008 (1:123/10)

Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 248 of 423
 From : Myra I Fox                          1:123/10        .óá 09 .åê 95 17:31
 To   : Nancy Crockett
 Subj : red dwarf
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
This is what you see scrolling up the screen right before the season
III shows, and it includes an explanation of why Holly changed sexes:



The Saga Continuums

The story so far ...
Three million years in
the future Dave Lister, the last
human being alive discovers
he is pregnant after a liason
with his female self in a parallel
universe.  His pregnancy
concludes with the successful
delivery of twin boys, Jim and
Bexley.  However, because the
twins were conceived in another
universe, with different physical
laws, they suffer from highly
accelerated growth rates, and
are both eighteen years old
within three days of being
born.  In order to save their
lives, Lister returns them to
the universe of their origin
where they are reunited with
their father (a woman), and
are able to lead comparatively
normal lives.  Well, as normal
as you can be if you've been
born in a parallel universe and
your father is a woman and
your mother's a man and
you're eighteen years old three
days after your birth.  Shortly
afterwards, Kryten, the
service mechanoid who had met
the ship after being rescued
from his own crashed vessel,
the Nova 5, is found is pieces
after his space bike crashs
into an asteroid.  Lister
rebuilds the 'noid, but is unable
to recapture his former
personality.

Meanwhile, Holly, the
increasingly erratic Red Dwarf
computer, performs a head
sex change operation on
himself.  He bases his new face
on Hilly, a female counterpart
with whom he'd once fallen
madly in love.

And now the saga continuums

Red Dwarf III
The Same Generation *Nearly*








... "Rimmer, you're name was never Ace.  Acehole, maybe." -- Lister
--- RA/FD/FMail
 * Origin: The Electric Fox - Memphis,TN, U.S.A.  1-901-327-1008 (1:123/10)

Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 249 of 423
 From : Frank Swarbrick                     1:104/825       .óá 09 .åê 95 14:36
 To   : Otto Cordray
 Subj : SF Comedy
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12  92-0022
On 12-08-95  21:00 My Very Good Friend Otto Cordray said:

 OC> I haven't seen as much of Red Dwarf as I'd like.

 OC> Do you recall an American series from the late '70's called "Quark"?
 OC> In addition to being a comedy it was a cross between Star Trek and
 OC> Red Dwarf (subject-matter-wise anyway; it certainly predates Red
 OC> Dwarf.) It had a requisite Spock-like character (this one was a plant
 OC> in human form) and the spaceship was a garbage scow. It wasn't zillions
 OC> of years in the future, though, and "Quark" was the Captain of the
 OC> ship.
 OC> I thought it was pretty funny (of course, I was a dweebish 13 year-old
 OC> at the
 OC> time) but there were only a few episodes (max. 10 or so.)

Nope, never saw it.  Of course, I was younger than you.  Under 10,
certainly.

I saw an ad for 3rd Rock From The Sun the other day.  Looks like it
could be OK.  Seems to borrow perhaps a little to much from The
Coneheads, but we'll see.

        Frank

... Soul Windows (Version 3.1)
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12
 * Origin: The Bailey Information Exchange BBS, 28.8k v.fc  (1:104/825.0)

Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 250 of 423
 From : Mark Jones                          1:105/302.47    .óá 09 .åê 95 16:33
 To   : Debra Burrell
 Subj : Sci-Fi TV
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On (07 Dec 95) Debra Burrell wrote to Shawn Merrow...

 DB> I certainly have to agree with you there.  I've always wondered how
 DB> these people get chosen; I want to sign up and skew the statistics.

   They're chosen at random.  My household has been a "Neilson Family"
twice in the last few years.  Each time we got a phone call first,
asking if we'd be interested in being a Neilson family.  When we
agreed, we were asked how many television sets we had.
   Then we received one "log book" for each television set.  We were
supposed to fill out a questionnaire (how many people, what ages and
sexes, etc. for statistical reasons).
   When we watched television, we were supposed to fill out what we
watched (in 15-minute increments), which channels, how many (and who)
were watching the show.
   Then we mail it in after the week is over.

   The operative phrase in all this is "Supposed to".

   In FACT what happened was that:
   I tended to claim that I'd watched whatever shows I *wanted* to
watch despite my actually working a night job at the time and not
being able to.
   My housemate "watched" all the educational programming and PBS
programming she approved of for her six year-old daughter.

   If our experience is typical, well...


--- PPoint 1.78
 * Origin: Folcroft Sanitarium (hsmith@cure.com) (1:105/302.47)

Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 251 of 423
 From : Meredith Billington                 1:109/611       .cê 10 .åê 95 18:43
 To   : Steen Christensen
 Subj : Re: books
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

SC>> Hejsa Meredith!

Wouldn't that be Hello?  Anyway Hello, Steen.

SC>> I bet you got a lot of response on this msg. but anyway here are some
SC>> of my favorite series/writers :
SC>> Star Trek      (all of it)

Have you read all three of the series'?

SC>> Star Warw      (All of it)

I've only read the first three books, the ones based on the movies.
Could you possibly give me the correct sequence for the books?

SC>> Terry Brooks
SC>> Larry Niven
SC>> Ben Bova       (All of his books)

I've not read those authors, but I have some of the books.

SC>> James P. Hogan (many of his book are about time travel! very good)

Who's he?  I've never heard of him.

SC>> Asimov         (Foundation serie)

He's good.

SC>> Weis & Hickman

I like them, but to be honest, I've never finished a single one of their books.

SC>> Julian May
SC>> Frederik Pohl

I've never read these two, but I've got a couple of their books.

SC>> How about you? You have something interesting ?

What do you mean?

Meredith

--- QuickBBS 2.80 GoldBase (Zeta-1)
 * Origin: AD Message BBS/10th Year Online! (703)998-2958 (1:109/611@FIDONET)

Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 252 of 423
 From : Chris Carter                        1:105/290.23    .îí 11 .åê 95 01:06
 To   : Tommy Kellerman
 Subj : Johnny Mnemonic
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On ( 7 Dec 95) Tommy Kellerman wrote to Anne Hardcastle...

 TK> I've seen half of "Johnny Mnemonic", and as a true Swede I
 TK> must say that Dolph Lundgren stole the show.

Well, this certainly has come along at the right time.

I just saw JM on video tonight, and thought it pretty cool.  Dolph's
role was a lot of fun.  I also got a kick out of Ice-T and Henry
Rollins.

Now I've gotta go back and read the story.  It's been awhile.

Chris - carter@teleport.com


... I'm a troubleshooter.  I find trouble, and I shoot it.

--- PPoint 1.98
 * Origin: Grid Epsilon Coords. 105x290x23 (1:105/290.23)

Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 253 of 423
 From : James Walton                        1:129/260       .cê 10 .åê 95 02:55
 To   : Tommy Kellerman
 Subj : Re: Writing Contest
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 > In a message dated 21-Nov-95 05:43:38, James Walton wrote:
 >
 >  JW> PARSEC is proud to announce its Second Annual Science
 >  JW> Fiction writing contest, in conjunction with ConFluence '96
 >
 >  JW> This contest is open to anyone (pro or amateur) who submits
 >

 > Is it open to europeans as well ?


We have entries from Austraila and New Zealand.  I have no problem with European
entries.  But I guess i have to add the rule that all submissions be in English,
since my foriegn language skills are quite poor.

--- Opus-CBCS 1.73a
 * Origin: ConFluence '96:  Return to Mars! (1:129/260.0)

Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 254 of 423
 From : Jeff Hancock                        1:3600/7        .cê 10 .åê 95 00:54
 To   : Ecarey
 Subj : B5 VS. TREK, AGAIN.
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

EC>It's possible this other guy lives in an area where their regional
EC>edition of TV Guide doesn't run episode descriptions for B5. OR, it's
EC>possible that he's simply looking in the wrong place. For instance,

[....]

EC>week's episode description _once_, in the Sunday night listing.

These two seem like the most likely explanation.

I really wasn't thinking about TV Guide's distribution, not reading
it,... always figured it was bad enough with the few listed stations in
the local newspaper guide that aren't carried by the local cable
station, showing programs I can't watch, without picking up a magazine
that would probably list dozens of them. ;)
-=-
 * Crazy-J * I'm a BBSer and I'm OK,I post all night & I sleep all day

--- SLMAIL v3.5C  (#1540)
 * Origin: Robotech þ Lake City's Music*Demo BBS þ [904] 758*9477 (1:3600/7)

Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 255 of 423
 From : Jeff Hancock                        1:3600/7        .cê 10 .åê 95 00:56
 To   : The Raven
 Subj : B5 VS. TREK, AGAIN.
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

TR>notice that there was only one description during the week.  If
TR>another channel played it at another time, they don't give it a
TR>description.

This was probably what was happening, then.

Unfortunately, for him to say that "they suddenly started giving it a
description", that must mean that another station dropped or moved it
later than the time he was checking.

-=-
 * Crazy-J * Which of these would look best on me naked? * Lwaxanna

--- SLMAIL v3.5C  (#1540)
 * Origin: Robotech þ Lake City's Music*Demo BBS þ [904] 758*9477 (1:3600/7)

Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 256 of 423
 From : Frank Swarbrick                     1:104/825       .cê 10 .åê 95 16:44
 To   : Jorj Strumolo
 Subj : Red Dwarf
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12  92-0022
On 12-08-95  00:51 My Very Good Friend Jorj Strumolo said:

 FS> I am wondering if my station is not showing them quite in order.
 > I saw "Kryten" about three or four episodes ago, but he hasn't
 > been seen since.  Is "Kryten" before or after "Stasis Leak"?

 JS> I think there's a seventh season, too, but I don't have anything on
 JS> that on file.  My PBS station recently aired the first two seasons,
 JS> which it has done before.  Apparently it never bought any more.
 JS> While I wouldn't at all mind seeing more, no way am I paying the
 JS> prices catalogs want for the videos.  I know Kryten shows up later in
 JS> the series, but his only appearance thru #12 is in his own episode.

[episode list deleted]

Ah, then they are showing them in order.  Well, that's good to know.
I don't know how many seasons my station bought, as I never paid
attention to Red Dwarf up to this point.  We shall see.

I also didn't realize it was such a recent series.  It looks older
than late 80's-early 90's.  I suppose that's just the bad British sets
and SFX...

        Frank

... "I'm a doctor, not a botanist" --Bashir
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12
 * Origin: The Bailey Information Exchange BBS, 28.8k v.fc  (1:104/825.0)

Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 257 of 423
 From : Jeff Hancock                        1:3600/7        .cê 10 .åê 95 21:48
 To   : Mark Holtz
 Subj : Upcoming Babylon Five Epi
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

MH>Subject: Upcoming Babylon Five Episodes

Say, could you (or anyone else here) start doing the same for DS9 and
Voyager episodes? Or is it only those behind B5 which provide this level
of advance scheduling to the public?

-=-
 * Crazy-J * You've read the thread, now view the GIF.

--- SLMAIL v3.5C  (#1540)
 * Origin: Robotech þ Lake City's Music*Demo BBS þ [904] 758*9477 (1:3600/7)

Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 258 of 423
 From : Todd Sullivan                       1:202/720.3     .cê 10 .åê 95 17:02
 To   : Rebecca Burns
 Subj : CANADIAN STUFF
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Whoa, Cool!  Rebecca Burns and me are inna cat fight about "CANADIAN STUFF"!

 TS>> I can see that I'm going to get a lot back about this one.

 RB>      You're not kidding on that one...

 TS>> I must have confused it; in one episode Calgary is mentioned and it
 TS>> stuck in my mind.

 RB> Maybe the episode you're thinking about is the one where Nat's
 RB> goddaughter is killed & the coroner who takes over the case used
 RB> to work in Calagry....Maybe?

Could be. I'm a bit vague on that one, and I haven't been able to watch the show
for a few months.  Severe withdrawal. Nnnung! :^)

Todd Sullivan

... "I will not adventure my discretion so weakly." --Shakespeare

-*- ASTG 1.9

--- Spot 1.3a Unregistered
 * Origin: Todd's Spot in the Continuum (1:202/720.3)

Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 259 of 423
 From : Todd Sullivan                       1:202/720.3     .cê 10 .åê 95 17:08
 To   : ROBERT LIDGREN
 Subj : KUBRICK COMMENTS
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Whoa, Cool!  ROBERT LIDGREN and BRION LIENHART are inna cat fight about "KUBRICK
COMMENTS"!

 ->> I like to do a Dr. Strangelove, Fail Safe double feature sometimes.

 RL> That would be a double-whammy.

 RL> BTW:  I don't seem to have access to the entire SFFAN "Kubrick" thread.
 RL> What seems to have been the catalyst for all the fire and brimstone?

As I recall, it was a Kubrick/King argument over "The Shining".

Todd Sullivan

... "A gentle riddance,--draw the curtains, go." --Shakespeare

-*- ASTG 1.9

--- Spot 1.3a Unregistered
 * Origin: Todd's Spot in the Continuum (1:202/720.3)

Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 260 of 423
 From : Phill Ash                           1:275/160       .îí 11 .åê 95 05:18
 To   : Brion Lienhart
 Subj : 3rd Stone From The Sun
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE 1.1+

 FS> Does anyone have any idea what this new comedy Third Stone From The
 FS> Sun (I think that's the name) is all about?  I know it stars John
 FS> Lithgow and has something to do with aliens on Earth, but that's about
 FS> it.

 -PA>        The reports I read last August mentioned that it dealt with an
 -PA>        exterrestrial (Lithgow) who holds a job as Physics Professor
 -PA>        at a Major University... dunno...

 BL> You don't suppose he's from Planet X by way of the 8th dimension, do
 BL> you?

        <G>  Or working at the Banzai Institute...  It'll be interesting
        to see if they pull any BB jokes.


From the Office of the DeathMaster General
---
 þ DeathMail (ver ü.1) þ It's all over?  Is that what you said?  --  The Doctor
~~~ ReneWave v1.01 [NR]
--- GEcho 1.10+
 * Origin: * The Beast's Lair * (804)498-3070 * Va Beach VA * (1:275/160)

Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 261 of 423
 From : Phill Ash                           1:275/160       .îí 11 .åê 95 05:18
 To   : Otto Cordray
 Subj : Quark
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE 1.1+

 OC> Do you recall an American series from the late '70's called "Quark"?
 OC> In addition to being a comedy it was a cross between Star Trek and
 OC> Red Dwarf (subject-matter-wise anyway; it certainly predates Red
 OC> Dwarf.) It had a requisite Spock-like character (this one was a plant
 OC> in human form) and the spaceship was a garbage scow. It wasn't zillions
 OC> of years in the future, though, and "Quark" was the Captain of the
 OC> ship.

        Yeah... Fall '78 (I think)... Written by Richard Benjamin & Buck
        Henry.
                Quark:  The intrepid captain (Benjamin)
                Ficus Pandandra:  The vegeton (vegetable in human form)
                Gene:  Human with the an equal number of x & y
                       chromosomes (wasn't that Tim Thomerson???)
                The Clones:  Obligatory Bimbi
                Janus:  Quark's boss

        It was set-up as a Trek parody, though they did a Star Wars
        parody in the first or second episode...  I think it only ran
        half a season (6-13 episodes)


Your pal:  PhlAsh
---
 þ PhlAshMail 1.0 þ Circular logic will only make you dizzy, Doctor.
~~~ ReneWave v1.01 [NR]
--- GEcho 1.10+
 * Origin: * The Beast's Lair * (804)498-3070 * Va Beach VA * (1:275/160)

Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 262 of 423
 From : Jon Glenn                           1:396/1030      .cê 10 .åê 95 23:40
 To   : Mark Jones
 Subj : Sorry for eavedropping ..
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12  93-0696
Mark posts in the sunlit world he believes is reality...


 MJ> Sounds like an urban legend or cold war propaganda to me.

 MJ> That said, I'm willing to believe that the Soviets thoroughly
 MJ> polluted and effectively destroyed an area with sloppy waste handling.
 MJ> But not by creating an accidental bomb.

       Sounds like he was talking about what is called the Kyshtym Disaster.
Poor waste handling techniques at the plutonium enrichment plants there led to
a chemical explosion involving radioactive wastes. The fallout plume wiped out
a few dozen villages, and ongoing ground water contamination from the plant
had done the same thing downsteam along the Techa River. So, there most likely
was an explosion involved, but not a nuclear one.

                                        Jon

... Captain Your new ship, the U.S.S. Jones is ready in Star-Dock.
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12
 * Origin: FIDONET:Black Tower BBS! 504-393-9412  (1:396/1030.0)

Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 263 of 423
 From : Karen Rodgers                       1:202/1313      .îí 11 .åê 95 11:08
 To   : Steven Wesen
 Subj : SEAQUEST 2032
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 -=> Quoting Steven Wesen to Robert Parson <=-

 SW> Wrong  Sliders wil be starting up next January and that is straight
 SW> from Fox.
 SW> don't believe the Hype......
 SW> Sliders live and Seaquest Dives...

 SW> Alien Nation was ok buth the telemovies are better that the original
 SW> series.

 That was a hard series to top, too.  Outstanding social commentary.

 Karen

... "Never, *ever* bet on the goodness of the human race." - M. Sykes
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

--- GrayQwkMail 2.1
 * Origin: Written Worlds BBS - 619.697.4073 (1:202/1313)

Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 264 of 423
 From : Gerry Normandeau                    1:163/430       .îí 11 .åê 95 04:45
 To   : Michael Harper
 Subj : Re: HITLER'S BRAIN
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
* On 12-07-95  22:17 Michael Harper strung up Gerry Normandeau on the gallows
pole because of HITLER'S BRAIN

 MH> My sources are fannish and apocryphal, and I trust them
 MH> about as much as I trust anybody, which is to say not much.
 MH> Even less, since you've verified what I heard from, among
 MH> others, Leonard Maltin. Score one for you and Dk.

 MH> Still don't like Kubrick, though...

I don't know much about him personally but I have to think that a guy who
can wright and direct a major motion picture, "Full mettal jacket", completly
from his home via sattelite is both a genus and a total oddball!
 On top of that he has all the plans and models from 2001 destroyed so no other
director could follow his work. HA! Also Have you ever seen a photo of our
good Mr. Kubric? I haven't, I wonder if that means somthing? Hmmmm...






... Duck! Its the Plaid Dragon!
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

--- Maximus 2.01wb
 * Origin: Watership Down BBS, Kanata , ON (1:163/430)

Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 265 of 423
 From : Tony Trujillo                       1:119/300       .cê 10 .åê 95 13:33
 To   : Myra I Fox
 Subj : Tom Holt & PTerry
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
GO AWAY! I DIDN'T WRITE THAT! AHHH! GET OUT OF MY HEAD!

--- QScan/WC v1.18b / 01-0625
 * Origin: FATAL ERROR of Redding Ca. 916-365-7456 (1:119/300)

Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 266 of 423
 From : Jerry Van Kooten                    2:280/901       .cê 10 .åê 95 02:52
 To   : Frank Swarbrick
 Subj : Red Dwarf
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Frank Swarbrick discussed 'Red Dwarf' with All on 05 Dec 95, 16:04:00

Hi Frank,

 FS> with the first episode a few months ago.  At first I thought it was
 FS> really stupid, and while it still is...  it's still a lot of fun.  The
 FS> most recent episode I saw was "Stasis Leak" and man, it was a riot!!!
 FS> I was ROTF when Cat attacked that woman's fur shawl!!!

The laughter frequency increases every next series, IMHO. When I was
introduced to Red Dwarf, they showed series III. It was great, and only
after series V, the video tapes of the first four series were released.
I must admit that, at first, series I was slightly disappointing.

 FS> Anyway, I am wondering if my station is not showing them quite in
 FS> order.  I saw "Kryten" about three or four episodes ago, but he hasn't
 FS> been seen since.  Is "Kryten" before or after "Stasis Leak"?  Better
 FS> yet, can someone post all the episodes in order?

I think the order your station is showing the shows is correct. Especially
the first series seems a random collection of episodes. I strongly
recommend the books 'Red Dwarf' and 'Better Than Life', or ("with
unmissable new material"), the 'Red Dwarf Omnibus' (Penguin, ISBN
0-14-017466-4). The book is written by Grant Naylor, i.e. Rob Grant and
Doug Naylor. Many bookstore people don't know they're two people, so check
under 'N' as well. (The "unmissable new material" consists of a 'Backword';
'The Beer Mat' on which the first ideas were written; 'Dave Hollins - Space
Cadet', a transcribed radio show, and the 'Red Dwarf Pilot Script'.)

The book tells the story in chronological order. Also, the series to come
(for you, that is) will show a more (chrono)logical order. Series VI is
one long story divided into six episodes, with the promising "To be
continued..." after the sixth. Still waiting for series VII...

Need any info on vids (PAL only, I'm afraid) and boox, let me know.

Greets,

Jerry Van Kooten




... I love cooking my children and leaving out commas. (Stephen Fry)
--- EBO-BBS Diemen
 * Origin: Homepage:  http://www.pvda.nl/~biginski (2:280/901)

Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 267 of 423
 From : Roelof Otten                        2:282/214       .îí 11 .åê 95 22:41
 To   : Jerry Van Kooten
 Subj : Red Dwarf
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Hello Jerry!

Sunday December 10 1995, Jerry Van Kooten writes to Frank Swarbrick:

 JVK> The laughter frequency increases every next series, IMHO. When I was
 JVK> introduced to Red Dwarf, they showed series III. It was great, and only
 JVK> after series V, the video tapes of the first four series were released.
 JVK> I must admit that, at first, series I was slightly disappointing.

You're view is opposite to mine, at first I liked Red Dwarf, but with the later
series it became less and less, funny how people can disagree on those things.


Roelof

--- GED/2 2.50+/FMail1.02+
 * Origin: The Cheesemaker's Home (2:282/214)

Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 268 of 423
 From : Myranya Werlemann                   2:283/1701      .òp 12 .åê 95 08:53
 To   : Judy Hayes
 Subj : Personal Favorites.
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 -=> Quoting Judy Hayes to Myranya Werlemann <=-

 [hot Klingon make-up]

 JH> I can only imagine at this point.  'Though I have had a couple of
 JH> people give me pointers about how to keep cooler and dryer while
 JH> wearing them.

 I'ld like to hear those. I want to get Cardassian make-up, and could
 probably use those pointers for it, too.

 JH> Oh...That makes it much easier then...'though I don't misplace things
 JH> so much now as I used to.  I think it comes from having children and
 JH> having to keep track of their stuff as well as my own. <g>

 I gotta keep track of my cat's stuff, he 'misplaces' everything not
 nailed down. <G>

 [cons]

 JH> Been there, done that...had a wonderful time. <BG>

 I miss the big cons. Went to a smaller one a couple of weeks ago, in
 Scheveningen. It wasn't a big one, and it wasn't specifically Trek,
 but it was lots of fun. We had just over a hunderd people, in a small
 hotel, filled it up... Stayed up most of the first two nights, and
 then after the con stayed until Monday morning, I really don't know
 why we had a room that night, we only slept a couple of hours. Then I
 had classes that monday night at 19:45-21:45. I really picked up a
 lot that time. <G>
 We got a really neat idea for next year, we wanna run a con the wrong
 way around. We had the last meeting that night, and we would have
 been having it next year, then we eventually had have been holding
 the first meeting in another year. Get twisted around talking about
 it. Anyway, it will have been lots of fun, if we don't/didn't get all
 mixed up in the time table... <BG>

 Greetx,

 Myranya.


... The major problem with time travel is one of grammar.
--- Blue Wave/RA v2.12 [NR]
 * Origin: EMICLAER BBS * +31 - 33 - 455 32 86 (2:283/1701)

Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 269 of 423
 From : Mark Holtz                          1:203/1701      .cê 10 .åê 95 23:59
 To   : All
 Subj : Upcoming Babylon Five Episodes
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
(Due to finals, no further updates will be made until after the 15th)

US Air Week      PCode Episode Title
-==============- -===- -=====================================================-
Dec  4-Dec 10 95 213   Hunter, Prey *REPEAT*
Dec 11-Dec 17 95 220   Divided Loyalties *REPEAT*
Dec 18-Dec 24 95 219   The Long, Twilight Struggle *REPEAT*
Dec 25-Dec 31 95 221   Comes the Inquisitor *REPEAT*
Jan  1-Jan  7 96 301   Matters of Honor *REPEAT*
Jan  8-Jan 14 96 302   Convictions *REPEAT*
Jan 15-Jan 21 96 303   A Day in the Strife *REPEAT*
Jan 22-Jan 28 96 305   Passing Through Gethsemane *REPEAT*
Jan 29-Feb  4 96 304   Voices of Authority
Feb  5-Feb 11 96 306   Dust to Dust
Feb 12-Feb 18 96 307   Exogenesis
Feb 19-Feb 25 96 308   Messages From Earth
Feb 26-Mar  3 96 309   Point of No Return
-                310   Severed Dreams
-                311   Ceremonies of Light and Dark
-                312   A Late Delivery from Avalon
-                313   Sic Transit Vir
-                314   Ship of Tears
-                315   [Unknown]-Part 1
-                316   [Unknown]-Part 2

BABYLON 5: Episode Information and Spoilers

By David Strauss & Others (dstrauss@netcom.com, replayer@genie.com)

Season Three: I am become Death, the Destroyer of Worlds

  "The Babylon Project was our last, best hope for peace...it failed.  But in
  the year of the Shadow war, it became something greater...our last, best
  hope for victory. The year is 2260. The place: Babylon 5."

  -- Commander Susan Ivanova, Opening Narration, Season Three.

5. (304) Voices of Authority - Written by JMS.  Ivanova and Marcus enlist
Draal's help to attempt to contact more of the First Ones.

6. (306) Dust to Dust - Written by JMS. An addictive drug spreads through the
station, prompting a factfinding visit by Bester. G'Kar reaches a turning
point. Walter Koenig guest stars as Bester. Kosh...we'll see him again outside
his suit in "Dust to Dust," but in a somewhat unconventional fashion....

7. (307) Exogenesis - Written by JMS. Marcus and Dr. Franklin combat an
invasion by parasitic aliens that attach themselves to humans.

8. (308) Messages From Earth - Written by JMS. Sheridan discovers a connection
between President Clark and a sinister figure, leading to a confrontation with
the Earth military. The Nightwatch attempt to take over the station.

9. (309) Point Of No Return - Majel Barrett plays Emperor Turhan's Third Wife,
Lady Morella, a prophetess and seer.

10. (310) Severed Dreams - Major Twist in Babylon series.

11. (311) Ceremonies Of Light and Dark - We find out more about the
relationship between Delenn and Lennier.

13&14. (315&316) [Unknown] - Sinclair arrives to try and bring Babylon 4
forward in time.

From JMS....

* There will be an Ivanova romance...but not necessarily with whom you might
  expect.
* Vir is *not* leaving the show. We're making some room for him to do his new
  sitcom; he's in episodes 3 and 5 so far, and more to come, of season 3.
* You'll be seeing more of Zack Allen.
* New characters: well, there's Marcus Cole, a Ranger assigned permanently to
  Babylon 5, played by British actor Jason Carter; we'll see Lyta Alexander
  more this year; and Theo...what can I say about Theo...well, perhaps better
  to let you see for yourself.
* We do plan to continue our practice of getting more ambitious each season;
  we saw virtually none of the homeworlds in year one; in year two we began to
  see more of Narn, and Centauri Prime, with some locations in the latter. We
  will continue to expand in each following year; in year three, we plan to
  show Minbar, more of Centauri Prime, the Narn homeworld, Earth and *maybe*
  the Vorlon homeworld, if I can figure out how to do it at this stage without
  totally imploding the show. New sets: yes, and we're creating situations in
  which we can see more of Earth, Mars, our other local planets, plus Narn,
  Centauri, Minbari and one other major world. As the Shadow War cranks into
  gear, you're going to need a place to meet in security and plan for it, so
  we're also building that. We'll see more of Draal's place on Epsilon 3.  And
  there's one other major set that we'll see in the first episode, and quite a
  bit thereafter. We'll see Minbar at least once in year three, perhaps more.
  We'll see more of the Epsilon 3 complex this coming season, yes.
* What's great is that this season, we haven't had one single episode on the
  level of War Prayer or Infection or Grail, some of our weaker first season
  eps.  The worst we've done is pretty darned good. What we're now working for
  in year three is that they're all better than that at their baseline rating.
  And so far, they're killer . . .  We're also doing some major EFX blow-outs
  of a type other than "they go into space and shoot stuff." Very interesting,
  creative, offbeat stuff.
* Never said the shadow war would be over in one year. Only that it wouldn't
  last three.
* What is the origin of the Human/Minbari connection? You'll find out this
  very season (year three), in no uncertain or ambiguous terms. You're
  assuming that the relationship you saw between Delenn and Sinclair was a
  romantic one. It was a close one, on her part in particular, but not based
  on romance.  We'll explain what that means in year three.
* Yes, the Rangers will play a more important part in year three, and
  Sinclair's part in it will be revealed.
--
David Strauss / dss2k@virginia.edu  <*>
Home Page: http://www.eskimo.com/~dstrauss/
Administrator, New York Islanders Mailing List
The Psi Corps is your friend.  Trust the Corps.

--- MsgPost 1.1
 * Origin: Deep Space Franchise (916) 721-1701 (1:203/1701)

Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 270 of 423
 From : Jimmy Pedersen                      2:235/334       .ÿò 08 .åê 95 23:07
 To   : Steen Christensen
 Subj : books
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

SC> Star Trek      (all of it) Star Warw      (All of it) Terry Brooks
SC> Larry Niven Ben Bova       (All of his books) James P. Hogan (many of
SC> his book are about time travel! very good) Asimov         (Foundation
SC> serie) Weis & Hickman Julian May Frederik Pohl

SC> How about you? You have something interesting ?

What u know, a fellow countryman.

You should try more of Asimov than just the foundation series, if
you haven't already done so.


Jimmy
---
 þ RM 1.3 03101 þ Grass is nature's way of saying 'High!'
 * Origin: Danish Key Board BBS (2:235/334)

Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 271 of 423
 From : Kristian List                       2:238/128.33    .óá 09 .åê 95 14:24
 To   : All
 Subj : Why is it?
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Okay, here is the deal...

I'm about to make a low-budget, one-shot, non-commercial SFmovie - just for
the fun of it. That is why I need a few spaceship models - hmmm... no problem,
a few kitchentools and some glue. Well, so I thought!

Right now I'm sitting here with glue all over my self, and one ugly big pile
of trash in front of me. Before I started, I read this and thought it would be
like a walk in the park:

"The Star Destroyer, envisioned as a monster ship a mile in length, was
constructed as a three-foot model. To capture the huge scale of the ship re-
quired surface detailing as small as a sixteenth of an inch thick. The model
making often involved the use of what model maker Lorne Peterson calls 'found
objects'. The three Star Destroyer thrusters, for example, were made of egg-
shaped plastic containers, used to package women's stockings, molded in high-
heat of the three, two-inch-wide halogen projection lamps built into the model."

        From "The best of Lucasfilm Archives"


Yeah, right!


Out of my mind -
Joker
--- TerminateMail
 * Origin: Aren't you a little short for a stormtrooper? (2:238/128.33)

Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 272 of 423
 From : Phill Ash                           1:275/160       .òp 12 .åê 95 10:23
 To   : Nancy Crockett
 Subj : Highlander
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE 1.1+

 NC> Since all of the watchers wear the tatoo on their wrists, Richie could
 NC> tell that Adam is a watcher. Wouldn't you think he would ask questions
 NC> when he could tell he was a watcher and an immortal?

        Hey!  Waitaminnit!!!
        If Methos had been posing as "Adam Pierson: Watcher", wouldn't
        he have gotten a tattoo?   Being an immortal, wouldn't that
        tattoo have "healed".  Wouldn't somebody have noticed???


Your pal:  PhlAsh
... I can't stand burnt toast and I loathe bus stations.  --  The Doctor
---
 * PhlAshMail 1.0 *
~~~ ReneWave v1.01 [NR]
--- GEcho 1.10+
 * Origin: * The Beast's Lair * (804)498-3070 * Va Beach VA * (1:275/160)

Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 273 of 423
 From : Owen E. Oulton                      1:243/45        .òp 12 .åê 95 11:34
 To   : Chris Banakos
 Subj : red dwarf
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 CB> my name is chris banakos what is red dwarf?

Red Dwarf is a British SF comedy TV series.  It is set on the Jupiter Mining
Corporation mining ship Red Dwarf, 3,000,000 years in the future.  The last
living human, Dave Lister, was sentenced to 18 months in temporal stasis for
having an unauthorised pet cat aboard.  While he was in stasis, a disaster
killed all of the crew.  When the radiation had died down to safe levels, Holly,
the ships computer (originally with an IQ of 6000, but now rather senile)
brought him out of stasis, and called up a holographic simulacrum of his
incredibly insecure, arrogant and incompetent bunkmate, Arnold Judas Rimmer to
keep him company.  They then discovered an entire race of humanoids had evolved
from the cat, which had been pregnant, and had died out, save for one remaining
specimen, known only as Cat.  Later, they picked up a service mechanoid named
Kryten, and the computer booted up a (equally senile) backup female personality.

The show has run for 6 seasons of 6 episodes each.  Craig Charles, who plays
Lister, had some serious legal problems (rape charges, of which he was found Not
Guilty), and the series is going ahead with at least 1 and up to 3 new seasons,
according to who you listen to.

If you get a chance to see it (it shows up on PBS in the US), watch it.  It's
hilarious!

CFN, O

--- Maximus 2.01wb
 * Origin: Pandora's Box, Ottawa, Ont. 613-829-1209 (1:243/45)

Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 274 of 423
 From : Frank Glover                        1:2613/477      .îí 11 .åê 95 20:50
 To   : Lawrence E Dunlap
 Subj : Re: Seaquest 2032
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

   Agreed. Sometimes even the worst stories can be help by just the right words
to show that the writers have *some* idea of what they're taliking about. (One
major offense that stands out in mymind was a scene from Lost in Space where Don
and Judy are out on the planet, and there's an overhead thunderclap-like sound;

   Judy: "What was that? An eclipse?"

    Don: "No, it was too close for an eclipse."

   No darkening of the sky now mind you, just a thunderclap. A noisy and bright
eclipse. Some writer clearly skipped his high school science....)

LE>  Star Trek proved that a doctorate in physics isn't really necessary,
LE>  just reasonable flexibility in the creative producers and flexibility
LE>  in the studio that is making the show.
LE>
LE>  Feedback, anyone?

   I find that ST:Voyager seems to indulge in technobabble more than its
predecessors do, but not so much that I can't live with it....

   Frank


--- QuickBBS 2.80 GoldBase (Zeta-1)
 * Origin: The Matrix Data Bank BBS, Rochester, Ny (1:2613/477)

Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 275 of 423
 From : Frank Glover                        1:2613/477      .îí 11 .åê 95 20:53
 To   : Steen Christensen
 Subj : Re: nuclear
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

SC>  The only way solar power will make a diff. is IF we find a way to
SC>  safly transfer power from satelites to Earth.

   I dunno...efficent photovoltaics, cheap superconductors and the desert
southwest sound like a good (though not immediate) combination to me....

   Frank


--- QuickBBS 2.80 GoldBase (Zeta-1)
 * Origin: The Matrix Data Bank BBS, Rochester, Ny (1:2613/477)

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 Msg  : 276 of 423
 From : Chris Ogniben                       1:2604/568      .îí 11 .åê 95 10:03
 To   : Nancy Crockett
 Subj : Highlander
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

   No, i am in New Jersey.  That is quite far away from where you are.
But, i be glad to continue talking about Highlander with you.  Once
again, i am only watching most of the sword fights, more than the hour
story events.  But, i may start one day to see the full hour show.


--- WM v3.11/93-0947
 * Origin: Waterside BBS - NJ - (201) 641-5375 28.8k  (1:2604/568)

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 Msg  : 277 of 423
 From : Brian Minsker                       1:325/118       .îí 11 .åê 95 20:10
 To   : Otto Cordray
 Subj : Sf Comedy
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 OC> Do you recall an American series from the late '70's called
 OC> "Quark"? In addition to being a comedy it was a cross between
 OC> Star Trek and Red Dwarf (subject-matter-wise anyway; it
 OC> certainly predates Red Dwarf.) It had a requisite Spock-like
 OC> character (this one was a plant in human form) and the
 OC> spaceship was a garbage scow. It wasn't zillions of years in
 OC> the future, though, and "Quark" was the Captain of the ship.

 OC> I thought it was pretty funny (of course, I was a dweebish 13
 OC> year-old at the time) but there were only a few episodes (max.
 OC> 10 or so.)

I thought I was just about the only one who fondly remembered "Quark",
given that it lasted for about 6 episodes as I recall.  The title
character was played by Richard Benjamin, a role I'm sure that he would
like us all to forget, and of course there were the Bettys. ;-)  My
fuzzy memory recalls it being around 1977, which means that I, too, was
a dweebish 13-year-old at the time.  Perhaps that explains its short
life. :-)

... HEINLEINEKIN'S: The Strange Beer in a Strange Can
___ via Silver Xpress V3.02

--- Maximus/2 3.00
 * Origin: The Ozone Layer, Williston, VT. (802) 862-5058 (1:325/118)

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 Msg  : 278 of 423
 From : Daniel Nystrom                      2:205/355.29    .îí 11 .åê 95 13:38
 To   : Terry Bennett
 Subj : Gibson
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
In a message of 05 Dec 95 Terry Bennett wrote to me:

 TB> Gibson is one of my favorite authors.  I read Neuromancer twice, then
 TB> Virtual Light and Burning Chrome.  I plan to read Mona Lisa next after
 TB> getting side tracked on Isaac Asimov' robots.

Aha! I've reached the end of Mona Lisa this weekend.. I'm in love with this
guy.. When I reached to chapter 23 (Mirror Mirror, in the Swedish edition) I
could not stop reading until I were finished! :)

 TB> I love the way Gibson
 TB> brings hi tech to the street level.  Pretty amazing to think this could
 TB> all happen in the not too distant future.

Yes, I think Gibson really gets TO the reader with his books.. I almost get
desperate when I cant connect myself to the MicroWave owen when I'm done with
one of his books.. Gibson is able to stick to the reality, but still have the
exitement left! But, however, don't you think it's odd that he does'nt owe a
computer.. He knows quite much about computers and hitech, but never had a
computer in his home! Strange.. ;)

 TB> There was just so much to Neuromancer I had to go back and read it a
 TB> second time.  So many complex characters and events I could probably
 TB> read it again and pick up things I missed.

 TB> I have a copy of Time magazine from February 8, 1993 with a cover
 TB> feature about real life cyberpunks and a great deal about Gibson. In
 TB> the article it says, "Gibson knows precious little about technology.
 TB> When the success of Neuromancer enabled him to buy his own computer, he
 TB> was surprised to discover that it had a disk drive."

Look Above! You don't think that you could copy thoose pages and send them to me
by snail-mail? If so, please write me a Net Mail And I'll send you my adress..
And I'll send you something from Sweden that you may be intressed about! :)

 TB> After reading this
 TB> article I ran out to buy a copy of Neuromancer to see what it was all
 TB> about.  I still keep my copy of the magazine in my computer desk. ---

I guess that you are as fanatic as I am then!! I will buy myself "Burning
Chrome" This weekend.. To make me busy one week again! BTW, do you know about
any other books that have the same style as the Gibson books?

 Greets - Daniel Nystrom - Excuse My Bad English!




--- Spot 1.3a Unregistered
 * Origin: Twilight Sky, A Caress Of Stars (2:205/355.29)

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 Msg  : 279 of 423
 From : Daniel Nystrom                      2:205/355.29    .îí 11 .åê 95 16:01
 To   : Lawrence E Dunlap
 Subj : Gibson
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
In a message of 06 Dec 95 Lawrence E Dunlap wrote to me:

 LED> Gibsom's idea that a software program could be transmitted to enable
 LED> sufficiently advanced cultures with some form of cyberspace to
 LED> experience extraterresterial environments and species without
 LED> meaningful star travel is an interesting idea. Wonder what would come
 LED> of some similar transmission by Terrans if we tried to encapsulate our
 LED> life and environment into a virtual reality program for use by a alien
 LED> species and technology.

I think that the most intresting thing with Gibsons books are the enviroments.
The enviroment in, for example, Neuromancer are not to fictonary.. In a not to
distant future, I think, we will be able to connect ourselfs into someone elses
nervsystems.. And be able to actually "travel" in sombody elses body. Like Case
did in Mollys body in "Neuromancer" (By a simstim (Is that the correct word?)).
Thats a intressting piece of work. But I hope that it won't begin with a module
to get rid of VCR's. As in "MonaLisa Overdrive", were Angie Mitchell is a
Moviestar. It would be a big misstake to use the technoligy for pure
entertainment purpose.

 LED> The central battle of the Neuromancer series revolved around just such
 LED> a virtual reality program in the cyberspace "nets" which Case uploaded
 LED> into cyberspace that produced the Centauri race's virtual reality
 LED> program, in effect 'contacting' our species through the program
 LED> playing through the net. Interesting concept, this by Gibsom.

Correction : Gibson, not Gibsom! :)
I truly hope that I will live long enough to try Gibson's cyberspace! Just
once... It seems to be so BIG! :) But I guess they have to invent the device
they used in Neuromancer for 'saving' somebodys memory (don't remember the name
of it, and a friend lend the book of me). Thats a quite funny thing to. Just the
idea of saving a dead mans brain into a artificial brain makes my skin crawl! :)
I would like to live for ever! But ofcourse, the technological intelligiens of
humans have to increase alot before thats possible! Quite pity, actually.

But, however I've just read Mona Lisa Overdrive.. It was really good. I will buy
Burning Chrome this weekend when visiting my Girlfriend!

 Greets - Daniel Nystrom -



--- Spot 1.3a Unregistered
 * Origin:  (2:205/355.29)

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 Msg  : 280 of 423
 From : Steven Amabili                      1:153/859       .îí 11 .åê 95 20:23
 To   : All
 Subj : Aliens 4
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Attention Aliens fans... yes there will be an Aliens 4 with Ridly!
She will be cloned... and kicking alien butt. For more info check out your local
book store's magazine rack!


--- Telegard v2.99.g02
 * Origin: Gallows Howe BBS (1:153/859)

Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 281 of 423
 From : Lyndon Soerensen                    1:140/96        .îí 11 .åê 95 15:15
 To   : Darre LuAllen
 Subj : Favorites
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 -=> Quoting Darre LuAllen to David Hilling <=-

 DL> On 11-26-95 David Hilling wrote to Darre Luallen...

 DL> No need to run.  Got to admit, Anthony is not my cup of tea either.
 DL> I have  heard that his stories are good.  I'll have to take their word
 DL> for it.    Tried to get through one of his books once.  Way too much
 DL> detail to   assimilate.  Of course, that was a long time ago.  Perhaps

I got through _Alien_Plot_ and _Anthonology_.  Anthony is just a bit too heavy-
handed for me sometimes.  It's only when he isn't obvious that IMHO, he turns
into a really good writer.


... Klingon adaptation of an Earth hobby-- Full-contact origami!
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
 * Origin: The Holistic BBS (1:140/96)

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 Msg  : 282 of 423
 From : Timothy H. Willis                   1:306/32        .óá 09 .åê 95 09:40
 To   : Frank Glover
 Subj : Re: Seaquest 2032
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
* She undid her..."ARRGH! Frank Glover woke me for this? <grrr> *

 DJ>  under-rated SF TV show I ever saw, was Mann and Machine.
 FG>
 FG> Agreed. Started to record the first episode of that, then changed
 FG> my mind and simply watched it in real-time.
 FG> *Still* kicking myself for not having done so.....

    Same here... though I *did* tape the following episodes.  It
was a good show, and there was a lot of potential there.  Right now
I'm anxiously awaiting its ressurection on the SciFi Channel -- so
I can finally tape the pilot episode.
    BTW:  I noticed a scene of Eve diving out of a helicopter
in the "next week's episode" teaser, and never saw *that* episode.
There just might be one or more episode(s) sitting in a can somewhere.
We can only hope...
    Timothy

... "Bummer," said Pooh when Tigger dropped the joint into the Honey jar.
--- FMail/386 1.0g
 * Origin: The Forum BBS-Ft Collins,CO *NODE @* (303)226-4218 (1:306/32)

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 Msg  : 283 of 423
 From : Judy Hayes                          1:154/40        .òp 12 .åê 95 07:15
 To   : Otto Cordray
 Subj : Re: SF Comedy
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

->Cursing at a broken Holoprojector Quoshara heard: SF Comedy


 OC> I haven't seen as much of Red Dwarf as I'd like.

 OC> Do you recall an American series from the late '70's called "Quark"?
 OC> In addition to being a comedy it was a cross between Star Trek and
 OC> Red Dwarf (subject-matter-wise anyway; it certainly predates Red
 OC> Dwarf.)

Loved it!  My girlfriend and I used to go around as the Bettys.

 OC> It had a requisite Spock-like character (this one was a plant
 OC> in human form)

"The bee, Ficus, the bee!!!"

 OC> and the spaceship was a garbage scow. It wasn't zillions
 OC> of years in the future, though, and "Quark" was the Captain of the
 OC> ship.
 OC> I thought it was pretty funny (of course, I was a dweebish 13 year-old
 OC> at the
 OC> time) but there were only a few episodes (max. 10 or so.)

It was pretty popular in L.A. fandom and the eps were often shown at
conventions.

      --Quoshara

... "Time is a dressmaker specializing in alterations." - FAITH BALDWIN
---
 * Origin: Anonymous BBS -=- Non plus Ultra -=- 414-251-2580 (1:154/40)

Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 284 of 423
 From : Richard Sarner                      1:271/236       .îí 11 .åê 95 07:54
 To   : Nancy Crockett
 Subj : Re: Highlander
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE 1.11+
In a message to Richard Sarner <12-09-95 21:33> Nancy Crockett wrote:

NC=> since Richie hangs around them so much, I figured Duncan would tell
NC=> him something, because if Richie should happen to let it leak about
NC=> "Adam" being an immortal, the watchers would take note...that could
NC=> ask questions when he could tell he was a watcher and an immortal?

He didn't seem to know of Adam's dual status in Chivalry. I think it's fairly
easy to hide his watcher status. Adam, being a researcher, may not be that well
known. All he has to do is keep an eye out to avoid those who know him on sight
when in the presence of immortals.

NC=> Have you missed a lot this season? Did you get to see "Homeland", the

I have seen all the eps so far, I need to watch the last few while conscious
(full time job, part time job, and working on a play can take a lot out of one)
That way I will remmeber what happened, rather than relying on second hand
memories. I loved "Homeland", did you say you recieve PEACE? The insights there
gave new insights  to the episode.

...Richard

--- GEcho 1.11+
 * Origin: THE TIME MACHINE (804)599-6401 TRAVEL THE PORTALS! (1:271/236)

Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 285 of 423
 From : Jorj Strumolo                       1:323/150       .îí 11 .åê 95 16:57
 To   : Mark Jones
 Subj : Sci-Fi TV
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

MJ> I tended to claim that I'd watched whatever shows I *wanted* to
  > watch despite my actually working a night job at the time and not
  > being able to.  My housemate "watched" all the educational programming
  > and PBS programming she approved of for her six year-old daughter.

 Yes.  When we got the logbooks, I had control of all three, and
 with no more instructions than "you know what I usually watch,"
 I put in whatever I thought should've been watched, with no
 regards as to what, if anything, actually was.  I'd expect the
 logbooks to be uniformly fictitious.  The monitoring units should
 be somewhat better, in that at least the TV was actually showing
 a program.  Whether anyone was in the room at the time is a
 different matter.  The idea of watching isn't what it was, anyway,
 since I might be flipping between three different shows at once.

 -- SPEED 2.00 #1019: Art is I; Science is We.

--- QScan/PCB v1.17b / 01-0175
 * Origin: Eagle's Nest Comm., Inc  Prov, RI 401-621-4600 (1:323/150)

Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 286 of 423
 From : Frank Glover                        1:2613/477      .óá 09 .åê 95 13:41
 To   : Tommy Kellerman
 Subj : Re: Nuclear space drives
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

TK>   CO>    There are no wormholes in real space.  There are Black Holes,
TK>  but,
TK>   CO> even those would tear a ship apart, since nothing can go through
TK>  a
TK>   CO> black hole.  So, there probably won't be inter stellar travel.
TK>
TK>  Well, is really everything proven about interstellar travel.
TK>  Maybe wormholes can't be seen or scanned, NOW THAT'S SCIENCE FICTION
TK>  !
TK>  Of course, you got a point, but we don't know everything about space
TK>  yet.

   There *may* be circumstances under which black holes that are charged
and/orrotating could be gateways to...somewhere.

   And, again theoretically, it may be possible to *create* wormholes. Carl
Sagan unintentionally inspired theoretical work in this area when he consulted
physicists to make his novel `Contact' as plausable as possible.

   See also Robert Forward's `Indistinguishable From Magic.'

   Frank


--- QuickBBS 2.80 GoldBase (Zeta-1)
 * Origin: The Matrix Data Bank BBS, Rochester, Ny (1:2613/477)

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 Msg  : 287 of 423
 From : Frank Glover                        1:2613/477      .óá 09 .åê 95 13:45
 To   : Todd Sullivan
 Subj : Re: B5 -- Coincidence?
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

TS>   TR>      Yah.  But then, what would be a good design for a
TS>  warship... a
TS>   TR> sphere, maybe?
TS>
TS>  Then it would be "Death Star" and "Skylark of Space" rip-offs,
TS>  wouldn't it?

   Remember also that Paramount artists considered a sphere as the basic design
for Trek Federation ships, before going to a saucer design. See `The Making of
Star Trek,' and `The Art of Star Trek' for details. (Had they done it, Fleet
ships might've all been variations on the ship Beverly Crusher commanded in `All
good Things.')

   Frank


--- QuickBBS 2.80 GoldBase (Zeta-1)
 * Origin: The Matrix Data Bank BBS, Rochester, Ny (1:2613/477)

Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 288 of 423
 From : Owen E. Oulton                      1:243/45        .pä 13 .åê 95 21:34
 To   : Kristian List
 Subj : Why is it?
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 KL> I'm about to make a low-budget, one-shot, non-commercial SFmovie - just
 KL> for the fun of it. That is why I need a few spaceship models - hmmm... no
 KL> problem, a few kitchentools and some glue. Well, so I thought!

 KL> Right now I'm sitting here with glue all over my self, and one ugly big
 KL> pile of trash in front of me. Before I started, I read this and thought
 KL> it would be like a walk in the park:

 KL> "The Star Destroyer, envisioned as a monster ship a mile in length, was
 KL> constructed as a three-foot model. To capture the huge

...<snip>...

Speaking as someone who has produced models for a low-budget SF film (not yet
completeded) from "found objects," the key is planning.  You need to sketch out
what the ship is going to look like.  It need not be a completely detailed
working drawing, but you need to know what the basic shape of the ship is going
to look like.  The ship and station module I built for my friend's film
consisted of a number of strange objects: the ship was built from 75mm plexiglas
tube, a plastic plant pot, half a clear plastic Christmas tree ornament, a
plastic drinking glass, six Tic-Tac candy containers, a bowl, vending machine
bubbles, Ping Pong balls, calculator keys, some sheet plastic and model detail
parts, and a lot of work.  The station module was made from a disposable waste
toner tank from a photocopier, Scotch tape spools, plastic Easter eggs, a makeup
container and more model parts.  I've also built a large scale space ship, the
UNSV Lester B. Pearson, currently on display at the National Archives of Canada,
which was made from a .5 metre diametre plexiglas terrarium (for keeping pet
turtles in).

If you want some tips on how to turn a pile of junk into a model, drop me a
NetMail message, and I'll get back to you.

CFN, O

--- Maximus 2.01wb
 * Origin: Pandora's Box, Ottawa, Ont. 613-829-1209 (1:243/45)

Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 289 of 423
 From : Steven Wesen                        1:271/236       .pä 13 .åê 95 23:43
 To   : Frank Swarbrick
 Subj : Re: Red Dwarf
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE 1.11+
look at Dr Who it to suffers from set depresion.

--- GEcho 1.11+
 * Origin: Time Machine Node 2, Newport News, VA 595-9383 (1:271/236)

Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 290 of 423
 From : Mark Jones                          1:105/302.47    .òp 12 .åê 95 13:25
 To   : Jon Glenn
 Subj : Sorry for eavedropping ..
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On (10 Dec 95) Jon Glenn wrote to Mark Jones...

 JG>        Sounds like he was talking about what is called the Kyshtym
 JG> Disaster. Poor waste handling techniques at the plutonium
 JG> enrichment plants there led to a chemical explosion involving
 JG> radioactive wastes. The fallout plume wiped out a few dozen
 JG> villages, and ongoing ground water contamination from the plant
 JG> had done the same thing downsteam along the Techa River. So,
 JG> there most likely was an explosion involved, but not a nuclear
 JG> one.

   Now *this* I'm willing to buy.  A steam explosion, or something
similar, is plausible.  But the claim of a nuclear blast was
ludicrous.


--- PPoint 1.78
 * Origin: Folcroft Sanitarium (hsmith@cure.com) (1:105/302.47)

Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 291 of 423
 From : The Raven                           1:363/309       .åò 14 .åê 95 06:22
 To   : All
 Subj : Seaquest 2032
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 SM> Seaquest 2032 has been cancealed. No reason known.

     And just recently, Universal Studios Florida has announced an open
auction of props, costumes, and other paraphenalia from the series.  Items
on the block include prop weapons, model subs of various descriptions, at
least one of nearly every uniform, and the 1,000 gallon "fake dolphin" tank.
     I was thinking of going just to watch, and maybe put in a bid or two.
Anything anyone wants me to get for them?

     Jack Butler



... Star Trek VII:  The Search for Shatner's Beer Gut.
--- Blue Wave/RA v2.20 [NR]
 * Origin: Forethought BBS -=- Orlando, FL -=- 407-679-6561 (1:363/309)

Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 292 of 423
 From : The Raven                           1:363/309       .åò 14 .åê 95 06:22
 To   : Michael Harper
 Subj : KUBRICK COMMENTS
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 > Genius-level work often emanates from those with big egos.

 MH> John Huston was egotistical, too, and he's one of my favorite
 MH> directors. To my perception, Kubrick has always had the attitude
 MH> that his shit doesn't stink. That bugs me. A little humility from
 MH> the man would do wonders for my opinion of him.

     Believe it or not, I believe Dan has forgotten that one can dislike a
man and love their creations.  I dislike Kubrick, and think he's an arrogant
ass.  But I love his films.  I hold (held?) similar opinions about Huston.

     Jack Butler



... Open windows let bugs in.
--- Blue Wave/RA v2.20 [NR]
 * Origin: Forethought BBS -=- Orlando, FL -=- 407-679-6561 (1:363/309)

Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 293 of 423
 From : The Raven                           1:363/309       .åò 14 .åê 95 06:22
 To   : Robert Lidgren
 Subj : KUBRICK COMMENTS
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 RL> BTW:  I don't seem to have access to the entire SFFAN "Kubrick"
 RL> thread. What seems to have been the catalyst for all the fire and
 RL> brimstone?

     Someone said "Kubrick's a great director, but as a person he sucks" and
Dkimmel had an apolplectic fit.

     Jack Butler



... "I hate to be an Indian giver, but I want my spur back." -- Severin
--- Blue Wave/RA v2.20 [NR]
 * Origin: Forethought BBS -=- Orlando, FL -=- 407-679-6561 (1:363/309)

Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 294 of 423
 From : The Raven                           1:363/309       .åò 14 .åê 95 06:22
 To   : Chris Carter
 Subj : B5 -- Coincidence?
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 CC> Take music for example.  A friend of mine once proposed that was
 CC> impossible to be a musician in the US without having been influenced
 CC> in some way by Bach and Duke Ellington.  Now I'm not going to
 CC> comment as to whether or not I believe this particular claim, but
 CC> the point is that no matter how close one gets to originality these
 CC> days, one is still standing on the shoulders of at least a few
 CC> giants.  Go back to the Stone Age.  Now there's some original
 CC> storytelling.  (A series of grunts, translated into English. -- "Me
 CC> kill great horned thing."  "Yeah, you big hero.  Save tribe from
 CC> great horned thing.")

     I believe that's the literal truth, believe it or not.


 CC> Parallel development can be a real bitch, eh... <g>

     Yeah, I had to scrap eighteen chapters of what I felt was some of the
best writing I'd ever done because of that.  It was a good story, too.  Oh
well, as they say, life goes on.


 CC> I've often thought that I'd like to try and write something.  The
 CC> thing that always stops me is my own lack of knowledge.  I've always
 CC> felt that without being very well-read in the genre of interest, I'd
 CC> be too likely to engage in cliche and repetition.  Part of trying to
 CC> approach originality is knowing a lot of what has gone before.  You
 CC> might use aspects of what you've learned, but you also know what not
 CC> to use.

     So think about what you know, and write about that.  Simple enough.

     Jack Butler



... "We have reached total coolness." -- Mikey
--- Blue Wave/RA v2.20 [NR]
 * Origin: Forethought BBS -=- Orlando, FL -=- 407-679-6561 (1:363/309)

Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 295 of 423
 From : The Raven                           1:363/309       .åò 14 .åê 95 06:22
 To   : Nancy Crockett
 Subj : Highlander
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 NC> They explained that they were from the same clan, but 100 years apart.

     75 years, actually.

     Jack Butler



... "The first basis of government is justice, not pity." -- Wilson
--- Blue Wave/RA v2.20 [NR]
 * Origin: Forethought BBS -=- Orlando, FL -=- 407-679-6561 (1:363/309)

Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 296 of 423
 From : The Raven                           1:363/309       .åò 14 .åê 95 06:22
 To   : Jeff Hancock
 Subj : B5 VS. TREK, AGAIN.
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 JH> Unfortunately, for him to say that "they suddenly started giving it a
 JH> description", that must mean that another station dropped or moved it
 JH> later than the time he was checking.

     Yeah, but it need not be a move to Oh-God-Thirty in the morning.  It
may just be a move from Saturday at 9 to Friday at 9.  If his station plays
it on Tuesday at 9, the other station won't have a description.

     Jack Butler



... "Boy, Elizabethan pronouns still send a tingle up the old spine."
--- Blue Wave/RA v2.20 [NR]
 * Origin: Forethought BBS -=- Orlando, FL -=- 407-679-6561 (1:363/309)

Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 297 of 423
 From : The Raven                           1:363/309       .åò 14 .åê 95 06:22
 To   : Ecarey
 Subj : SORRY FOR EAVEDROPPING ..
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 Ec> It was a steam explosion, not a nuclear explosion.

     Thanks for the clarification.  The statement implied that it was a
nuclear detonation of some sort.

     Jack Butler



... "I think I made myself perfectly clear!" -- Dr. Fred
--- Blue Wave/RA v2.20 [NR]
 * Origin: Forethought BBS -=- Orlando, FL -=- 407-679-6561 (1:363/309)

Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 298 of 423
 From : Judy Hayes                          1:154/40        .åò 14 .åê 95 08:01
 To   : Myranya Werlemann
 Subj : Re: Personal Favorites.
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

->Cursing at a broken Holoprojector Quoshara heard: Personal Favorites.

Howdy, Myranya!

 MW> [hot Klingon make-up]
 JH> I can only imagine at this point.  'Though I have had a couple of
 JH> people give me pointers about how to keep cooler and dryer while
 JH> wearing them.

 MW> I'ld like to hear those. I want to get Cardassian make-up, and could
 MW> probably use those pointers for it, too.

Contact Bill Hedrick over on the Klingon Echo, if you get that.  Oh, or on
the DS9 Echo...I know you get that one.  He's got great ideas on keeping
cool - plus, I happen to know that he just recently did Cardassian make-up
for someone.  I'm sure he would be happy to help you with that as well.

 JH> Oh...That makes it much easier then...'though I don't misplace things
 JH> so much now as I used to.  I think it comes from having children and
 JH> having to keep track of their stuff as well as my own. <g>

 MW> I gotta keep track of my cat's stuff, he 'misplaces' everything not
 MW> nailed down. <G>

I can relate to that...mine have hidden jewelry, pill bottles, every pen or
pencil I own and all my socks - but I love them any way. <BG>

 MW> [cons]
 JH> Been there, done that...had a wonderful time. <BG>

 MW> I miss the big cons. Went to a smaller one a couple of weeks ago, in
 MW> Scheveningen. It wasn't a big one, and it wasn't specifically Trek,
 MW> but it was lots of fun. We had just over a hunderd people, in a small
 MW> hotel, filled it up... Stayed up most of the first two nights, and
 MW> then after the con stayed until Monday morning, I really don't know
 MW> why we had a room that night, we only slept a couple of hours. Then I
 MW> had classes that monday night at 19:45-21:45. I really picked up a
 MW> lot that time. <G>

Been there, done that too.....but I'm old now.  Can't get through a whole
weekend with only 5 hours of sleep and nothing to eat but tea and
"Ding Dongs" any more.

 MW> We got a really neat idea for next year, we wanna run a con the wrong
 MW> way around. We had the last meeting that night, and we would have
 MW> been having it next year, then we eventually had have been holding
 MW> the first meeting in another year. Get twisted around talking about
 MW> it. Anyway, it will have been lots of fun, if we don't/didn't get all
 MW> mixed up in the time table... <BG>

Okay.... <g>

      --Quoshara



... A stich in time saves nine, but does that include temporal anomolies?
---
 * Origin: Anonymous BBS -=- Non plus Ultra -=- 414-251-2580 (1:154/40)

Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 299 of 423
 From : Patrick Meinecke                    1:261/1000      .pä 13 .åê 95 21:15
 To   : All
 Subj : The wheel of Time
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
I have been reading the wheel of time series from Robert Jordan has
anyone heard when the next book is due out.

Thanks
___
 X SLMR 2.1a X BEWARE - Tagline Thief in this echo

--- Maximus/2 3.00
 * Origin: Nerve Center - Source of the SPINAL_INJURY echo! (1:261/1000)

Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 300 of 423
 From : Patrick Meinecke                    1:261/1000      .pä 13 .åê 95 21:19
 To   : Karen Rodgers
 Subj : Last Message
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

KR> Only if its well written, and acted.  I refuse to support another _Lost In
KR> Space_, ever!

I actually like lost in space as a kid but a similar show today would
have little support.  I was one of those kids that had the robot for
christmas.   I admit the series would have been much better without a
silly and stupid Doctor Smith.  I glad lost in space was there when I
was a kid and I get a kick out of seeing the reruns again.

Pat
___
 X SLMR 2.1a X But soft, what light through yonder tagline breaks?

--- Maximus/2 3.00
 * Origin: Nerve Center - Source of the SPINAL_INJURY echo! (1:261/1000)

Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 301 of 423
 From : Myranya Werlemann                   2:283/1701      .åò 14 .åê 95 01:56
 To   : All
 Subj : Merry Christmas!
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
                    ___
            __.----'---`----.__
       _.--'=========O=========`--._
   _.-'              o              `-._
   =====================================
    .----.__`---._________.---'__.----.                |
    |/__\|------/___ _ ___\------|/__\|               /|\
    `----'     |   .' `.   |     `----'              //|\\
                \  `._.'  /                         //@|\\\
                 `-------'                         ////|\\\\
                                                  //@//|\\@\\
   #\    /#  #~~~~  #~~~\   #~~~\   \  /         //////|\\\@\\
   #  \/  #  #--    #---'   #---'    `/         ///@///|\\\\\\\
   #      #  #____  #   `\  #   `\   /         ////////|\\\@\\\\
                                              /@///////|\\\\\\\\\
   \    /                                    //////@///|\\\\\\@\\\
     \/          #\    /#   #~#   /~~~      ///////////|@\\\\\\\\\\
     /\     ~~   #  \/  #  #___#  `===     //@//////@//|\\\\\\\@\\\\
   /    \        #      #  #   #  ___/    //////@//////#\\\@\\\\\\\\\
                                                       #
                                                       #

   __  __   __         ___       __    __   __      ___   __
  |_  |_ / |  | |\/|    |  |__| |_    |  \ |_   |    |   |__|
  |   |  | |__| |  |    |  |  | |__   |__/ |__  |__  |   |  |

   __        __   __   __   __        ___
  |  | |  | |__| |  \ |_ / |__| |\  |  |
  |__\ |__| |  | |__/ |  | |  | |  \|  |   __  __  __


  And a happy 2372...

  Myranya.


... "I'll be an old man, but I'ld welcome a message from you." -R'Mor
--- Blue Wave/RA v2.12 [NR]
 * Origin: EMICLAER BBS * +31 - 33 - 455 32 86 (2:283/1701)

Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 302 of 423
 From : David Hilling                       1:262/32        .pä 13 .åê 95 07:54
 To   : Steen Christensen
 Subj : books
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
::To: David Hilling  From: Steen Christensen  Subj: books  ::
----------------------@N

 SC> Hejsa David!
SC> 01 Dec 95, sammensatte David Hilling til Steen Christensen:
SC>> Julian May
 DH>  Good stuff, huh? I thought for a while I was the only one reading her
 DH> work.

 SC> No way, I like her books. B.t.w. I had the impression that it was a
 SC> man, and not a woman?

 She is definately a woman

 DH> Do you think her publishers will EVER release Magnificat? I've been
 DH>  following this series since The Many Colored Land and I really want to
 DH> know how it ends, dammit.
 SC> Sorry to ask, but what is Magnificat ? I'm currently awaiting the next
 SC> book in the serie with Jack the Bodyless and Metaconcert. (Can't
 SC> remember the name)

 Magnifacat is supposed to be the last book in the Galactic Milleau series.
 (Quick list for anyone who's missed anything:
 The Many Colored Land
 The Golden Torc
 The Nonborn King
 The Adversary
 Intervention (also released in two parts as Surveillance and Metaconcert)
 Jack the Bodiless
 Diamond Mask
 Magnificat (Not yet releases according to Waldenbooks as of last week)

... Let's put Schroedinger in a box and see how HE likes it!
---
 À Blue Wave/DOS v2.21 [NR] À
--- Renegade v10-05 Exp
 * Origin: The Gallifrey BBS * 614-867-2812,,77 * Zoom 28.8k (1:262/32)

Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 303 of 423
 From : Jo De Man                           2:291/1102.10   .îí 11 .åê 95 20:24
 To   : Star Hawk
 Subj : Weber
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
*** Answering a msg posted in area PERSONAL_MAIL (Personal mail).

Hello Star !

05 Dec 95, Star Hawk writes to Jo De Man:

 SH>      Whoops!  OK, LibertyCon is a small limited attendence SF/Fantasy
 SH> convention held in my city, Chattanooga, Tennessee, every summer [it's
 SH> the second convention we have in town, the first being ChattaCon].

Thanks .... if I am ever there... when it's happening .... I'll go look ;-)
(something tells me chances aren't all that high)

 [>> Jo De Man [> Still has a lot of potential. Starfire RPG ??? What
 [>> is that all about ?
 SH>      I may have misspoken about it being a RPG type game, i've never
 SH> seen it myself, but an ad for the books states: "See this strategy
 SH> game come to explosive life in these grand space adventures!"  So it
 SH> seems that the game came out first and the novels were written from
 SH> the basis of the game.

Probably an older (or newer) reprint.

 [>> of Bahzell and Brandark;  hradani ears are more like those of a
 [>> fox, and are closer to the top of the head rather than the sides.
 [>> Jo De Man [> He looked a bit like an overgrown vulcan...
 SH>      Face it, the only thing the artist really got right was the
 SH> size... <g>
 [>> Jo De Man [> Heard his next book (inheriters of the empire or
 [>> something like that) is in this series (sounds good)
 SH>      Well and good.

Any idea when it will be out ? (the sooner the better)

 SH>      She'll be back on a Manticorian command deck... it just may take
 SH> a while [maybe next book, or the book after].

Yeah, will just have to wait.

 SH> turning their backs to space.  Then the aliens arrive; human aliens,
 SH> handsome and pacifist, with bad news: a totally alien militant race is
 SH> attacking them and they need help.  Now the Space Force has something
 SH> worse to worry about than going out of business...

I read it a long time ago. (I think it was one of the first books I read in a
language other than dutch ... I'll have to look ... probably still around
somewhere !)

 SH>                                         Star Hawk, the EchoTrickster

        Bye ! ,
                Jo

PS : Another book I liked was called 'FROST' ; I think it was written by Robin
W Bailey (or something like that). Ever heard about it ? (the follow-ups where
out of print by the time I read it)

Fidonet         : 2:291/1102.10
   Treknet US      : 87:6022/9104
      Treknet Europe  : 107:1901/104
         Warpspeed       : 147:1706/200.2

... "Kijk uit," zei de sinaasappel, "er is hier persvrijheid."
--- FMail/386 1.02
 * Origin: Space for rent (2:291/1102.10)

Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 304 of 423
 From : ROBERT LIDGREN                      1:134/10        .òp 12 .åê 95 22:52
 To   : TODD SULLIVAN
 Subj : KUBRICK COMMENTS
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Hi Todd!  You evidently have entirely TWISTED NY MESSAGE, made it seem
something which it was not and you have stated something purely WRONG.

You stated:

-> Whoa, Cool!  ROBERT LIDGREN and BRION LIENHART are inna cat fight
-> about "KUBRICK COMMENTS"!

Nothing could be farther from the truth.

1. I wrote saying that I thought "Dr. Strangelove" was a very satirical
   criticism of the more crazy elements of the cold war.

2. He wrote that a Dr. Stranglelove" and "Failsafe" double feature would
   work well together.  I agreed.

"Cat fight?"  Sorry to disappoint but you did not understand our message
in the slightest.

My question about what had started this Kubrick "thread" was because I
have no access to all of those messages it contained.

NOTE:  As far as Stanley Kubrick's work is concerned, I have enjoyed
some of it, found other films less satisfying but do not bow down at ANY
director's altar.  What I do admire is excellent story telling in film
whether it is from Kubrick, David Lean, Martin Scorsese, or even Ron
Howard. There have been very fine directors in every decade and I might
note that I was saddened to hear of the recent death of Louis Malle.  I
enjoyed his work too.
--- PCBoard 15.2
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Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 305 of 423
 From : ROBERT LIDGREN                      1:134/10        .òp 12 .åê 95 22:54
 To   : STEEN CHRISTENSEN
 Subj : NUCLEAR
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
-> The only way solar power will make a diff. is IF we find a way to
-> safly transfer power from satelites to Earth.

Well, then, let's put research investment into that and see if it is
feasible.

Nuclear cannot and should not be our ONLY option as you have already
agreed.
--- PCBoard 15.2
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Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 306 of 423
 From : ROBERT LIDGREN                      1:134/10        .òp 12 .åê 95 23:04
 To   : MICHAEL HARPER
 Subj : KUBRICK COMMENTS
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
-> John Huston was egotistical, too, and he's one of my favorite
-> directors. To my perception, Kubrick has always had the attitude that
-> his shit doesn't stink. That bugs me. A little humility from the man
-> would do wonders for my opinion of him.

I would not use those words because I find them offensive.  However,
what Kubrick thinks about HIMSELF is of NO interest to me.  All I care
about is what he does.  The Work.  The work speaks for itself.  Some is
very good other things are not so good.  The point is he DOES SOMETHING
with whatever talents he has.  I guess anyone can be a critic.

What will LAST is not what people say about the flaws in others but the
good they do themselves.  Sometimes we need to look in the mirror and
ask:  "What exactly is it that I am contributing?"
                          ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
That's part of the reason why movie reviews interest me little.  I judge
"for myself."  True, anyone can have an opinion but, for me that says
little.  What really counts is an informed opinion.
                               ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Flaming interests me not in the slightest.  Discussing the issues does.

I seem to remember a similar range of messages when David Lynch came out
with Twin Peaks.  That series had a science fiction element - or at
least a fantasy element too.  Some absolutely hated ...Peaks.  Others
thought it was akin to the Cistine Chapel ceiling!  I found it to be
interesting because it was often hard to predict what would happen from
week to week.  It broke some new ground but will not go down as a series
which permanently altered fiction on TV or in the movies.  What I
enjoyed was that Lynch tried something different adn it did draw a
sizeable cult following.
--- PCBoard 15.2
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Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 307 of 423
 From : ROBERT LIDGREN                      1:134/10        .òp 12 .åê 95 23:12
 To   : MICHAEL HARPER
 Subj : EGOTISTICAL AUTEUR
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
-> film. Without Doug Trumbull's effects and Arthur Clarke's story, 2001
-> wouldn't exist. Kubrick may have been the ramrod, but 2001 was made
-> by a large, very talented team. Not by one egotistical auteur.
-> The auteur approach is something that really bugs me bad. A lot of
-> filmmakers have this attitude, and it's annoying. No matter how good
-> they are, they have nothing without the writers, actors, effects

Your comment made me do some thinking.  Might it not be true that
"sometimes" the egotistical auteur is the catalyst who brings together
all that other talent which is so essential?  I like Clint Eastwood's
approach as a director much more.  He's a real gentleman and yet very,
very, talented.  When he made "The Unforgiven" just outside Calgary,
where I live, everyone who came into contact with the man marvelled at
his professionalism but also the way he treated other people - a very
kind man.  He's a "class act!"

Maybe in the "creative universe" there IS ROOM for both kinds of
creative talent.  The egotist and the down-to-earth gentle person.
No one has to like either but the fact is these two models and others do
exist.  Heck, you'll probably run into all these models working and
shopping in the local Walmart too!
--- PCBoard 15.2
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Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 308 of 423
 From : ROBERT LIDGREN                      1:134/10        .òp 12 .åê 95 23:27
 To   : BRION LIENHART
 Subj : tv and sf
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
-> That's because TV producers make lousy SF. They think that a show
-> will draw a big audience if it has flashy special effects, and big
-> name stars. Never mind that the shows don't make sense, have bad
-> plots, and worse science. If it's bad
-> SF, it's bad TV.

What you say is short but to the point.  I agree with you most of the
time on this one.  What really makes terrific science fiction or fantasy
has got to be excellent writing.  The screenplay.  All the visual
effects CAN add impact BUT IT SEEMS TO ME YOU HAVE TO CARE ABOUT THE
CHARACTERS IN SOME WAY AND THIS HAPPENS WHEN THEY ARE NOT JUST CARDBOARD
CHARACTERS.

I think if you look at the original Twilight Zone series or even One
Step Beyond, there were a number of excellent science fiction stories
and virtually no "whizz-bang" special effects and no colour to boot!

I's say your last comment another way:  Bad stories ensure bad TV just
as bad stories make for bad movies.

Translating science fiction from novels into the filmed format is and
has alkways been a very tough nut to crack.

Example:  Dune.  Great novel.  Film was a valiant attempt to get some of
the "guts" of the story but translating the metaphysical part isn't very
easy.  A giant worm-no problem but mysticism, well... a tough one since
so much about mysticism goes on in the mind and soul

Just a few meanderings of another seeking the truth...

Cheers and all my best,
-Rob
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Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 309 of 423
 From : Shawn Merrow                        1:3407/14       .pä 13 .åê 95 22:26
 To   : Brion Lienhart
 Subj : Sci-Fi TV
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

-> -TK>When you say "Sci-Fi TV", do you mean special series and movies
-> in -TK>general, -TK>or do you have some kind of dedicated TV-channel
-> over there ?
-> There is a cable channel "The Sci-Fi Channel" that shows every bad SF
-> show ever made, and some of the good ones. Shawn was probably talking
-> about the major networks though. I think that if it's bad SF, it's
-> bad TV and should be put out of our misery as soon as possible.
-> That's one of the main reasons I haven't watched any Trek-TV since
-> last spring.

I was talkin about Sci-Fi shows in general ( Star Trek, Babylon 5, Etc.)
where I'm at we dont get the Sci-Fi Channel on cable TCI decided they
wether have 6 pay ver view channels than add new channels :-(

--- QScan/PCB v1.16b / 01-0024
 * Origin:  (1:3407/14)

Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 310 of 423
 From : Ecarey                              1:101/230       .òp 12 .åê 95 13:16
 To   : Tommy Kellerman
 Subj : SCI-FI TV
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 >SM> I think Sci-Fi (fans) should support Sci-Fi tv.
 >
 TK> When you say "Sci-Fi TV", do you mean special series and movies in
 > general,
 > or do you have some kind of dedicated TV-channel over there ?

In fact there is a cable channel, The Sci-Fi Channel, which is all sf, but I
think Shawn's talking about sf shows generally.

--- FLAME v1.0
 * Origin: Withouta Net - Drop In Anytime! - 617/846-5416 (1:101/230)

Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 311 of 423
 From : Chip Griffin                        1:320/301       .åò 14 .åê 95 00:03
 To   : ROBERT LIDGREN
 Subj : Re: NUCLEAR
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

-> Solar and wind power have been attempted in large-scale and they are
-> failures.
-> Nuclear power is the most cost-effective and nearly the safest.

RL> Yeh, about as safe as "safe sex!"  No, nuclear fission will never be
RL> safe enough.  Fusion...maybe.

You got it backwards.  Fusion requires such high temperatures that it must use
magnetic containment and the like ... It is MUCH LESS safe then fusion.
Believe it or not a nuclear reactor (fission) can be designed to be inherantly
safe!  I have worked in the nuclear power field for quite a few years and do
so only because I have the utmost confidence in its safety.  Most people who
think otherwise are severely lacking in understanding of how it works!

73s - de N1MIE, Chip, Granite; Sysop of Quarry; President of TRAUG


--- MacKennel 2.2.1
 * Origin: The Quarry: 860-889-6427 -- Amateur Radio & Mac User (1:320/301.0)

Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 312 of 423
 From : Chip Griffin                        1:320/301       .åò 14 .åê 95 00:09
 To   : Frank Glover
 Subj : Re: nuclear
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

SC>  The only way solar power will make a diff. is IF we find a way to
SC>  safly transfer power from satelites to Earth.

FG>    I dunno...efficent photovoltaics, cheap superconductors and the desert
FG> southwest sound like a good (though not immediate) combination to me....

Solar takes too much land for how much power you get out.  On just a few acres
in two states the five nuclear power units in the company I work for make a
combined 4500 MegaWatts electric output (about 1/3 of all of New Englands
normal demands).  How much land would it take to create an equivalent amount
of power?  And what would you do at night when the sun don't shine?  How large
of a battery would you need to hold that amount overnight (and then scale up
your solar unit to charge it after a nights depletion).  And then what about
an overcast day?

Naw, I see there will always be a need for a large scale power producing
entity such as the role provided today by the worlds Nuclear Power generation
stations.

73s - de N1MIE, Chip, Granite; Sysop of Quarry; President of TRAUG


--- MacKennel 2.2.1
 * Origin: The Quarry: 860-889-6427 -- Amateur Radio & Mac User (1:320/301.0)

Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 313 of 423
 From : Tommy Kellerman                     2:205/356       .pä 13 .åê 95 21:03
 To   : Nancy Crockett
 Subj : Highlander
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
In a message dated 09-Dec-95 21:10:02, Nancy Crockett wrote:

 NC> There is a lot of info on America On Line, but I don't know if you can get
 NC> that there. There is a lot of fans that write in AOL, and Adrian has been
 NC> on it live twice. Jim Byrnes (Joe Dawson) has been on it, and so has Stan
 NC> Kirsch (Richie Ryan).
 NC> Let me know if I can be of any more assistance, and even if you just want
 NC> to comment on the shows!

I'm afraid that the only computer connections with America are through Fido-
and InterNet.
Thank you for your valuable help, I do appreciate it.

 NC>  Have you seen the one with Adrian's butt shot yet?

WHAT?! Hahaha! No, I haven't, but that sounded kind of kinky...

 NC> Don't lose your head!

:)

NC> ... Never purge files after three sleepless nights.

Nope, not too fun...

/// -Tommy L.- \\\  * I have something to say: It's better to BURN out
                      than fade away !! *

--- Xenolink 1.0 Z.3, EmacsXL.4
 * Origin: NoLimit, Furudal +46-258-10071 (2:205/356)

Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 314 of 423
 From : Tommy Kellerman                     2:205/356       .pä 13 .åê 95 21:22
 To   : Frank Glover
 Subj : Re: Nuclear space drives
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
In a message dated 09-Dec-95 13:41:02, Frank Glover wrote:

TK>  Well, is really everything proven about interstellar travel.
TK>  Maybe wormholes can't be seen or scanned, NOW THAT'S SCIENCE FICTION
TK>  !
TK>  Of course, you got a point, but we don't know everything about space
TK>  yet.

 FG>    There *may* be circumstances under which black holes that are  charged
 FG> and/orrotating could be gateways to...somewhere.

What is this theory based on?

 FG>    And, again theoretically, it may be possible to *create* wormholes.
 FG> Carl Sagan unintentionally inspired theoretical work in this area when  he
 FG> consulted physicists to make his novel `Contact' as plausable as
 FG> possible.

Is it newly written?
I haven't heard of it...


/// -Tommy K.- \\\

--- Xenolink 1.0 Z.3, EmacsXL.4
 * Origin: NoLimit, Furudal +46-258-10071 (2:205/356)

Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 315 of 423
 From : David Little                        1:106/7315      .åò 14 .åê 95 11:34
 To   : Frank Swarbrick
 Subj : Red Dwarf
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
-=< Frank used the Jedi Mind Trick on me! >=-

 FS> Anyway, I am wondering if my station is not showing them quite in
 FS> order.  I saw "Kryten" about three or four episodes ago, but he hasn't
 FS> been seen since.  Is "Kryten" before or after "Stasis Leak"?  Better
 FS> yet, can someone post all the episodes in order?

        Here's a section from the Red Dwarf FAQ list and how to get a recent
copy:

------------------------------

Subject: Is there an episode guide for RED DWARF?

  Otto Heuer <heuer004@gold.tc.umn.edu> maintains a very good guide,
  available by anonymous ftp:

  ftp://toaster.ee.ubc.ca/pub/red-dwarf/red-dwarf-guide

| To get you started, here's a quick list created by Dale Clayton
| <dale.clayton@canrem.com>:

  Series 1 - 1988                      Series 2 - 1988

  1 The End....................15 Feb   7 Kryten.................... 6 Sep
  2 Future Echoes..............22 Feb   8 Better Than Life..........13 Sep
  3 Balance of Power...........29 Feb   9 Thanks for the Memory.....20 Sep
  4 Waiting For God............ 7 Mar  10 Stasis Leak...............27 Sep
  5 Confidence & Paranoia......14 Mar  11 Queeg..................... 4 Oct
  6 Me^^2......................21 Mar  12 Parallel Universe.........11 Oct

  Series 3 - 1989                      Series 4 - 1991

  13 Backwards.................14 Nov  19 Camille...................14 Feb
  14 Marooned..................21 Nov  20 D.N.A.....................21 Feb
  15 Polymorph.................28 Nov  21 Justice...................28 Feb
  16 Bodyswap.................. 5 Dec  22 White Hole.................7 Mar
  17 Timeslides................12 Dec  23 Dimension Jump............14 Mar
  18 The Last Day..............19 Dec  24 Meltdown..................21 Feb

  Series 5 - 1992                      Series 6 - 1993

  25 Holoship..................20 Feb  31 Psirens................... 7 Oct
  26 The Inquisitor............27 Feb  32 Legion....................14 Oct
  27 Terrorform................ 5 Mar  33 Gunmen of the Apocalypse..21 Oct
  28 Quarantine................12 Mar  34 Emohawk: Polymorph II.....28 Oct
  29 Demons and Angels.........19 Mar  35 Rimmerworld............... 4 Nov
  30 Back To Reality...........26 Mar  36 Out of Time...............11 Nov

------------------------------

Subject: How to find the latest version of this list

  By WWW: Using NCSA Mosaic, lynx, or your favorite World Wide Web
  browser, you can access an HTML version of this list at Thomas Fine's
  FAQ site at Ohio State University:

| http://www.cis.ohio-state.edu/hypertext/faq/usenet/tv/red_dwarf-faq/faq.html

  The RED DWARF FAQ List is under R for RED DWARF.

  By Gopher: If you have access to the Gopher service, you can connect
  to the server at the University of New Brunswick (Canada):

| gopher://sol.csd.unb.ca/00/FAQ/rec/tv/news.answers.00477a

  By Anonymous FTP: Almost all Usenet FAQ lists can be found by
  anonymous FTP to rtfm.mit.edu.  For the latest version of the Red
  Dwarf FAQ List, get:

  ftp://rtfm.mit.edu/pub/usenet/news.answers/tv/red_dwarf-faq

  For more info on how to FTP, ask your friendly local systems staff or
  see the periodic posting in news.announce.newusers entitled "Anonymous
  FTP: Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ) List."

  Through Your Newsreader: The FAQ is posted every fourteen days to the
  following newsgroups:

  news:alt.tv.red-dwarf
  news:alt.answers
  news:news.answers

  By Mail: If you can't FTP, you can use MIT's mail server to access
  their FAQ archives.

  mailto:mail-server@rtfm.mit.edu

  To request the Red Dwarf FAQ, type the following as the body of your
  message:

  send /pub/usenet/news.answers/tv/red_dwarf-faq

  For complete information on using this service, type the following
  (and nothing else) as the body of your message:

  help
  index

  If All Else Fails: If you can't get a copy by any of the methods
  described above, send me mail and I'll send you a copy.

  mailto:pat@berry.Cary.NC.US

                                        -=The DoLittle 8-)=-

... "Cracking toast, Gromit!" - Wallace
--- FreeMail & Blue Wave/DOS v2.21
 * Origin: The Wizard's Realm ** (713) 946-7315 ** (1:106/7315)

Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 316 of 423
 From : Darre LuAllen                       1:3637/1        .åò 14 .åê 95 08:51
 To   : Lyndon Soerensen
 Subj : Favorites
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 On 12-11-95 Lyndon Soerensen wrote to Darre LuAllen...

 DL> No need to run.  Got to admit, Anthony is not my cup of tea either.
 DL> I have  heard that his stories are good.  I'll have to take their word
 DL> for it.    Tried to get through one of his books once.  Way too much
 DL> detail to   assimilate.  Of course, that was a long time ago.  Perhaps

 LS> I got through _Alien_Plot_ and _Anthonology_.  Anthony is
 LS> just a bit too heavy-handed for me sometimes.  It's only when he isn't
 LS> obvious that IMHO, he turns into a really good writer.

 Okay, when you're not slogging through an Anthony novel, what do you
 prefer to read?  Personally, I'll try to read about anything.  In past,
 I have read Ray Bradbury, Kurt Vonnegut, RAH, Mercades Lackey, A.C. Clarke
 R.A. Salvatory (I think that's right), Randell Garrett, William Gibson
 (wrote a paper on _Neuromancer_ for a history project =>) and even Anne Rice.

 As far as classics go, I've read _2001..._, _Fahrenheit 451_, _20000 Leagues

 Under the Sea_, _Slaughter House Five_, _1984_ and a few others that I
 cannot remember.  I'm also a fan of Poe and Lovecraft.

 I never really developed a fav author as such.  For me, if a story has some
 fresh insights, a good pace or interesting characters I'll stick with it.
 As I stated before, Anthony was just too involved for me.  But that was just
 one book that I tried.  I suppose that if I try another, then I might fare
 better.  The book I tried was the first in the Adept series (assuming I'm
 not confusing my authors).

 I'd better shut up for now.  Otherwise, I won't have anything else to talk
 about.

                                                 Darre LuAllen
                                                 Lost in a Library in
                                                 the South
___
___
 * OFFLINE 1.56 * Why isn't phonetic spelled the way it sounds?


--- Maximus/2 3.00
 * Origin: Cumberland BBS TN 615/526-3347 V34 (1:3637/1)

Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 317 of 423
 From : Darre LuAllen                       1:3637/1        .åò 14 .åê 95 09:46
 To   : Star Hawk
 Subj : Khans - Nooga way
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 On 12-05-95 Star Hawk wrote to Jo De Man...

 [> Jo De Man [> What is libertyCon ? (probably a stupid question, but
 [> hey, I am over here in Belgium)

 SH>      Whoops!  OK, LibertyCon is a small limited attendence
 SH> SF/Fantasy convention held in my city, Chattanooga,
 SH> Tennessee, every summer [it's the second convention we have
 SH> in town, the first being ChattaCon].

 Hey, a Khan-man from the Nooga area... First ChattaCon for me was 12 and
 I was at the first LibertyCon.   Who's s'pose to be at this next year's
 Liberty and do you have an address or phone number for someone on
 Khan staff?  (preferably the staffer in charge of registration)
 If you're planning to be at Chattacon, I'll be the third partier from
 the left.

                                              Darre LuAllen
                                              "Is this thing on?"

___
 * OFFLINE 1.56 * The drunker I stand here, the longer I get.

--- Maximus/2 3.00
 * Origin: Cumberland BBS TN 615/526-3347 V34 (1:3637/1)

Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 318 of 423
 From : Darre LuAllen                       1:3637/1        .åò 14 .åê 95 10:14
 To   : Otto Cordray
 Subj : SF Comedy
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 On 12-08-95 Otto Cordray wrote to Frank Swarbrick...

 OC> I haven't seen as much of Red Dwarf as I'd like.

 OC> Do you recall an American series from the late '70's called "Quark"?
 OC> In addition to being a comedy it was a cross between Star Trek and
 OC> Red Dwarf (subject-matter-wise anyway; it certainly predates Red Dwarf.)
 OC> It had a requisite Spock-like character (this one was a plant in human
 OC> form) and the spaceship was a garbage scow. It wasn't zillions of years
 OC> in the future, though, and "Quark" was the Captain of the ship.
 OC>
 OC> I thought it was pretty funny (of course, I was a dweebish 13 year-old
 OC> at the time) but there were only a few episodes (max. 10 or so.)

 I use to love that show, but no one would acknowledge its existance,
 until now.  I just thought that I had been hallucinating.  Now I guess
 it's just a case of "Disco Deprogramming."  Didn't the show have a
 set of twins?  I was five years younger than you when I saw this show,
 so my memory is not very trustworthy.
___
 * OFFLINE 1.56 * Who died and made you Blake?



--- Maximus/2 3.00
 * Origin: Cumberland BBS TN 615/526-3347 V34 (1:3637/1)

Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 319 of 423
 From : Myra I Fox                          1:123/10        .åò 14 .åê 95 05:39
 To   : Daniel Nystrom
 Subj : Gibson
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

-=>Quoting Daniel Nystrom to Terry Bennett<=-


 DN> I guess that you are as fanatic as I am then!! I will buy myself
 DN> "Burning Chrome" This weekend.. To make me busy one week again! BTW,
 DN> do you know about any other books that have the same style as the
 DN> Gibson books?

I'll look to see what authors Terry comes up with too.  But some that
I have found are:  George Alec Effinger (WHEN GRAVITY FAILS, A FIRE IN
THE SUN, THE EXILE KISS), Pat Cadigan (SYNNERS, FOOLS, MINDPLAYERS),
Neal Stephensen (SNOW CRASH)... I know there are others, but I thought
I would pass those along to you.


... You must be seeing something I didn't say. --Synners.
--- RA/FD/FMail
 * Origin: The Electric Fox - Memphis,TN, U.S.A.  1-901-327-1008 (1:123/10)

Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 320 of 423
 From : Michael Harper                      1:123/10        .åò 14 .åê 95 08:07
 To   : Gerry Normandeau
 Subj : Kubrick
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Actually, that was one of the few things he did that I approve of; standard
practice in H'Wood has always been to use whatever you could get your hands on.
This is why you see that same thing with the neon tubes in almost every other sf
flick. Kubrick was quite honestly concerned about the ships and things from 2001
showing up in somebody else's movie, and for that reason alone I'm glad he had
them destroyed. Nobody knew that Richard Edlund would need them fifteen years
later for 2010, but that's another story...

So, y'see, he has done a couple of things right... anybody who can make a film
like Dr. Strangelove can't be all bad... :)
--- RA/FD/FMail
 * Origin: The Electric Fox - Memphis,TN, U.S.A.  1-901-327-1008 (1:123/10)

Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 321 of 423
 From : Myra I Fox                          1:123/10        .pä 13 .åê 95 08:36
 To   : Tony Trujillo
 Subj : Tom Holt & PTerry
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

-=>Quoting Tony Trujillo to Myra I Fox<=-

 TT> GO AWAY! I DIDN'T WRITE THAT! AHHH! GET OUT OF MY HEAD!

Hi, Tony... what *were* we talking about?  The subject line says
PTerry and Holt.

I am reading "Who's Afraid of Beowulf?" now. I couldn't find it in the
ubs and I have it on loan from a friend.  (Thanks, Mike!)





... "He who can follow his own will is a king." Ä Irish Proverb
--- RA/FD/FMail
 * Origin: The Electric Fox - Memphis,TN, U.S.A.  1-901-327-1008 (1:123/10)

Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 322 of 423
 From : Otto Cordray                        1:106/1393      .ÿò 15 .åê 95 17:57
 To   : Judy Hayes
 Subj : Re: SF Comedy
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 JH> It was pretty popular in L.A. fandom and the eps were often shown at
 JH> conventions.

Does this mean that you might know someone who actually has copies of them?

I ran the video room for AggieCon in 1987. I couldn't find copies of Quark
anywhere. Even one of the pro guests who had connections couldn't find
them.

Otto

--- Maximus/2 2.01wb
 * Origin: The Round Table, BBS of Gulf Coast Mensa * 922-1393 (1:106/1393)

Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 323 of 423
 From : Frank Glover                        1:2613/477      .ÿò 15 .åê 95 20:54
 To   : Brian Minsker
 Subj : Re: Sf Comedy
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

BM>  I thought I was just about the only one who fondly remembered
BM>  "Quark",
BM>  given that it lasted for about 6 episodes as I recall.  The title
BM>  character was played by Richard Benjamin, a role I'm sure that he
BM>  would
BM>  like us all to forget, and of course there were the Bettys. ;-)  My
BM>  fuzzy memory recalls it being around 1977, which means that I, too,
BM>  was
BM>  a dweebish 13-year-old at the time.  Perhaps that explains its short
BM>  life. :-)

   More than once, Richard Benjamin said of the show; "We like to think of it as
Star Trek in the wrong hands..."

   Frank


--- QuickBBS 2.80 GoldBase (Zeta-1)
 * Origin: The Matrix Data Bank BBS, Rochester, Ny (1:2613/477)

Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 324 of 423
 From : Frank Glover                        1:2613/477      .ÿò 15 .åê 95 20:56
 To   : Steven Amabili
 Subj : Re: Aliens 4
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

SA>  Attention Aliens fans... yes there will be an Aliens 4 with Ridly!
SA>  She will be cloned... and kicking alien butt. For more info check out
SA>  your local book store's magazine rack!

   I've heard this too, (indirectly) from Sigourney Weaver herself. And I've
indeed wondered how they could have her, when Ellen Ripley was very definitely
killed in the last film......

   Frank


--- QuickBBS 2.80 GoldBase (Zeta-1)
 * Origin: The Matrix Data Bank BBS, Rochester, Ny (1:2613/477)

Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 325 of 423
 From : Phill Ash                           1:275/160       .óá 16 .åê 95 06:55
 To   : Kristian List
 Subj : Why is it?
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE 1.1+

 KL> Okay, here is the deal...
 KL> I'm about to make a low-budget, one-shot, non-commercial SFmovie -
 KL> just for the fun of it. That is why I need a few spaceship models -
 KL> hmmm... no problem, a few kitchentools and some glue. Well, so I
 KL> thought!
 KL> Right now I'm sitting here with glue all over my self, and one ugly
 KL> big pile of trash in front of me. Before I started, I read this and
 KL> thought it would be like a walk in the park:

 KL> From "The best of Lucasfilm Archives"

 KL> Yeah, right!

        It's called "kit-bashing"... I used to do it all the time...

        Made some really cool 50s SF fighters out of ping-pong balls, a
        conic base, a conic thruster and 3 triangular fins cut from a
        bacon sheet.


Your pal:  PhlAsh
... The purge has come to set you free; On the lips, the light called Truth.
---
 * PhlAshMail 1.0 *
~~~ ReneWave v1.01 [NR]
--- GEcho 1.10+
 * Origin: * The Beast's Lair * (804)498-3070 * Va Beach VA * (1:275/160)

Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 326 of 423
 From : Mike O'brien                        1:282/7         .ÿò 15 .åê 95 06:39
 To   : All
 Subj : Jogasian
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
serap? Whortusian begot wheynotz
mereian Wqu? Gouli bin jeranian terasts!!!
Mogunga kerwhatzin, eh?

--- FLAME v1.1
 * Origin: TC-AMS TBBS 2.3 [64] - Minnetonka MN - (612)-938-4799 (1:282/7)

Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 327 of 423
 From : Mike O'brien                        1:282/7         .ÿò 15 .åê 95 06:41
 To   : Yurtka
 Subj : Wondera
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
merkvn?
ilzhas perhaps?
nil nil nil!!!
null (and void?)

--- FLAME v1.1
 * Origin: TC-AMS TBBS 2.3 [64] - Minnetonka MN - (612)-938-4799 (1:282/7)

Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 328 of 423
 From : Darre LuAllen                       1:3637/1        .ÿò 15 .åê 95 16:53
 To   : Frank Glover
 Subj : Re: Seaquest 2032
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 On 12-11-95 Frank Glover wrote to Lawrence E Dunlap...

 LE>  Star Trek proved that a doctorate in physics isn't really necessary,
 LE>  just reasonable flexibility in the creative producers and flexibility
 LE>  in the studio that is making the show.

 LE>  Feedback, anyone?
 FG>
 FG>    I find that ST:Voyager seems to indulge in technobabble
 FG> more than its predecessors do, but not so much that I
 FG> can't live with it....

 Doesn't it bug you that everyone in a uniform seems to know everything
 about everything, and yet everyone is s'pose to be some find of
 specialist?  They must use some *serious* "sleep teachers" or some such.


                                                Darre LuAllen
                                                Know-Nothing
                                                Extraordinaire
___
 * OFFLINE 1.56 * Deep Space 90210 is brought to you by...


--- Maximus/2 3.00
 * Origin: Cumberland BBS TN 615/526-3347 V34 (1:3637/1)

Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 329 of 423
 From : Judy Hayes                          1:154/40        .óá 16 .åê 95 22:04
 To   : Otto Cordray
 Subj : Quark
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

->Cursing at a broken Holoprojector Quoshara heard: Re: SF Comedy

 JH> It was pretty popular in L.A. fandom and the eps were often shown at
 JH> conventions.

 OC> Does this mean that you might know someone who actually has copies of
 OC> them?

Yep...she's in L.A. and I have mostly lost track of her in recent years...
not totally, just mostly.

 OC> I ran the video room for AggieCon in 1987. I couldn't find copies of
 OC> Quark anywhere. Even one of the pro guests who had connections couldn't
 OC> find them.

Well, her copies were just video bootlegs off of the telly...

Actually, now that I think of it....I think someone in MTL (Milwaukee Time
Lords) has at least a few of the eps.

      --Quoshara



... "What do we do now, Ficus?"  "Wait for the Bee..."
---
 * Origin: Anonymous BBS -=- Non plus Ultra -=- 414-251-2580 (1:154/40)

Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 330 of 423
 From : Frank Swarbrick                     1:104/825       .åò 14 .åê 95 20:15
 To   : Steven Wesen
 Subj : Re: Red Dwarf
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12  92-0022
On 12-13-95  23:43 My Very Good Friend Steven Wesen said:

 SW> look at Dr Who it to suffers from set depresion.

No doubt.  I wonder why it is that British SF shows can't make more
modern looking sets and effects.  I suppose they just don't have the
budget.

Of course, fans will say that the sets don't matter, and I suppose
that's true, but they'd still be nice!  :-)

        Frank

... Heaven is waiting and waiting is Hell.
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12
 * Origin: The Bailey Information Exchange BBS, 28.8k v.fc  (1:104/825.0)

Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 331 of 423
 From : Star Hawk                           1:362/708.6     .cê 10 .åê 95 03:22
 To   : Jeff Hancock
 Subj : B5 -- Coincidence?
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
From my perch I saw this come out of the gravity well from Jeff Hancock:

  [> Jeff Hancock [> (whatever WOH is....)

     Probably WINGS OF HONNEAMIS: ROYAL SPACE FORCE.  It's the tale of a
centerless man and his gradual awakening to a much larger world as he prepares
to be the first pilot to attempt an orbital flight, while other countries try
everything to stop the flight.  Needless to say, this world has no history in
common with our own.

                                        Star Hawk, the EchoTrickster

--- MacWoof Eval:23Dec93
 * Origin: William Bull Hedrick @ Hawk Haven's Orbital Point (1:362/708.6)

Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 332 of 423
 From : Brandon Wolgast                     1:363/216       .ÿò 15 .åê 95 14:11
 To   : Steven Amabili
 Subj : Aliens 4
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: HyperMail! v1.21 94-0049

SA>Attention Aliens fans... yes there will be an Aliens 4 with Ridly!
SA>She will be cloned... and kicking alien butt. For more info check out your
SA>local book store's magazine rack!

And it will bomb big time. I picked up the magazine with high hopes and
boom, they did it. First, my personal view on the entire thing is that
if they are bringing her back pretend like part 3 NEVER HAPPENED, not a
dream, nothing, it just was not there, open part 4 with her back in her
sleeping thing.  But if they ARE going to be like part 3 happened they
should at least GET RID OF HER, she has grown old anyway and after she
"died" I just don't know. They really need to get going with Aliens vs
Predator.

---
 * OLX 2.1 TD * Hello, I am part number ||#||||#||#||#||

--- HyperMail! v1.21
 * Origin: Data Systems Internat'l (407)292-8009 Call Today! (1:363/216)

Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 333 of 423
 From : James Walton                        1:129/260       .åò 14 .åê 95 15:43
 To   : Kristian List
 Subj : Re: Why is it?
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 > Okay, here is the deal...
 >
 > I'm about to make a low-budget, one-shot, non-commercial SFmovie
 > just for the fun of it. That is why I need a few spaceship models
 > - hmmm... no problem,
 > a few kitchentools and some glue. Well, so I thought!


A book you should look for is "The Extra Terrestrial Vehicles Model Book" by
Robert Schleicher.  It is subtitled "how to build and fly space and special
effects models."

Essentially the books shows how the author put together different spaceships
using parts from different models, etc.  Some of it is geared toward model
rocketry, but some of it is useful for a person building models for a movie.

--- Opus-CBCS 1.73a
 * Origin: ConFluence '96:  Return to Mars! (1:129/260.0)

Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 334 of 423
 From : James Woodcock                      3:620/264       .åò 07 .åê 95 11:47
 To   : Mark David
 Subj : Re: nuclear
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
G'day Mark

 RL> I tend to look even more seriously at solar power, wind power and tidal
 RL> power as nifty alternatives too.  Giant HYDRO projects simply won't fill

 MD> Solar and wind power have been attempted in large-scale and they are
 MD> failures.

 Solar power has been used in parts of Australia for some years now, and it
 is quite successful. Wind power is growing slowly as the technology improves,
 tidal power is a long way behind but moving up fast.

 MD> Nuclear power is the most cost-effective and nearly the safest.

 Until it fucks up...look under 'Chernobyl' or 'Three Mile Island'

 James



... Well, someone has to pedal the transmitter...
--- FMail 1.02
 * Origin: Deaf in one eye! (Solaris BBS 61-6-253-3704) (3:620/264)

Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 335 of 423
 From : Christian Kent                      3:712/704       .ÿò 01 .åê 95 17:31
 To   : All
 Subj : Red Dwarf / TNG crossover
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: FastEcho 1.41/g 10056
Can somebody please send me the Red Dwarf / Star Trek:TNG crossover?
I've got to see that subplot with Riker and Data again!

... "Uh oh!  Too slow, chicken merango!  Too slow for this cat." ÄÄ Cat
--- Blue Wave/RA v2.21 [NR]
 * Origin: The Eagles BBS - Fidonet and Internet System - (3:712/704)

Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 336 of 423
 From : Todd Sullivan                       1:202/720.3     .ÿò 15 .åê 95 13:03
 To   : Mark Jones
 Subj : Reactor vs weapons grade
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Whoa, Cool!  Mark Jones and Jon Glenn are inna cat fight about "Sorry for
eavedropping .."!

 JG>> had done the same thing downsteam along the Techa River. So,
 JG>> there most likely was an explosion involved, but not a nuclear
 JG>> one.

 MJ>    Now *this* I'm willing to buy.  A steam explosion, or something
 MJ> similar, is plausible.  But the claim of a nuclear blast was
 MJ> ludicrous.

Not only ludicrous, but woefully ignorant.  The fuel in most reactors is either
Uranium (isotope 238) or plutonium.  U-235 is used for "breeder" reactors in
weapons' manufacture.

Also, the enrichment of reactor fuel is only about 40-50%; weapons grade is 90%
or better.

A former Nuclear Power candidate.

Todd Sullivan

... "Out, hyperbolical fiend!" --Shakespeare

-*- ASTG 1.9

--- Spot 1.3a Unregistered
 * Origin: Todd's Spot in the Continuum (1:202/720.3)

Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 337 of 423
 From : Todd Sullivan                       1:202/720.3     .ÿò 15 .åê 95 13:06
 To   : ROBERT LIDGREN
 Subj : KUBRICK COMMENTS
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Whoa, Cool!  ROBERT LIDGREN and me are inna cat fight about "KUBRICK COMMENTS"!

 RL> Hi Todd!  You evidently have entirely TWISTED NY MESSAGE, made it seem
 RL> something which it was not and you have stated something purely WRONG.

In utmost seriousness, and all sarcasm aside, that is a reply header, not a
comment; I use it here, as it seems remarkably appropriate, considering that
this area tends to cater to "avid discussions".

If you took it personally, well, that's not my problem.

Todd Sullivan

... What do you call a lawyer with an IQ of 40?  Your Honor.

-*- ASTG 1.9

--- Spot 1.3a Unregistered
 * Origin: Todd's Spot in the Continuum (1:202/720.3)

Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 338 of 423
 From : Jerry Van Kooten                    2:280/901       .ÿò 15 .åê 95 17:25
 To   : Owen E. Oulton
 Subj : Red Dwarf
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Owen E. Oulton discussed 'red dwarf'with Chris Banakos on 12 Dec 95  06:34:36:

Hi Owen,

 OEO> The show has run for 6 seasons of 6 episodes each.  Craig Charles, who
 OEO> If you get a chance to see it (it shows up on PBS in the US), watch
 OEO> it.  It's hilarious!

How many seasons did they broadcast over there? I didn't think it would be
popular enough in the US to be broadcast at all.
There has been a pilot produced once, to start a separate, American series
of Red Dwarf, with only Robert Llewellyn as Kryten from the original cast.
That never worked, I guess. Does anyone know where I can get this one
on vid? NTSC is fine.

Greets,
Jerry Van Kooten


... Politics; Poly=many, Tics=blood sucking parasites
--- EBO-BBS Diemen
 * Origin: Homepage:  http://www.pvda.nl/~biginski (2:280/901)

Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 339 of 423
 From : Jerry Van Kooten                    2:280/901       .ÿò 15 .åê 95 17:25
 To   : Jorj Strumolo
 Subj : Red Dwarf
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Frank Swarbrick discussed 'Red Dwarf'with Jorj Strumolo on 10 Dec 95  11:44:00:

 JS> I think there's a seventh season, too, but I don't have anything on

Unfortunately there's not. Not yet, that is.

Greets,
Jerry van Kooten




... ******  "Welcome To Hell, Here's Your Copy of Windows '95." -Satin
--- EBO-BBS Diemen
 * Origin: Homepage:  http://www.pvda.nl/~biginski (2:280/901)

Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 340 of 423
 From : Jerry Van Kooten                    2:280/901       .ÿò 15 .åê 95 17:25
 To   : Roelof Otten
 Subj : Red Dwarf
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Roelof Otten discussed 'Red Dwarf'with Jerry Van Kooten on 11 Dec 95  17:41:06:

Hi Roelof,

 RO> You're view is opposite to mine, at first I liked Red Dwarf, but with
 RO> the later series it became less and less, funny how people can
 RO> disagree on those things.

Just a matter of personal taste, obviously. Any other combinations of
SF and comedy you recommend?

Bye,
Jerry van Kooten



... There's an old droid saying that goes like 1100010110001100101001100
--- EBO-BBS Diemen
 * Origin: Homepage:  http://www.pvda.nl/~biginski (2:280/901)

Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 341 of 423
 From : Jeff Hancock                        1:3600/7        .ÿò 15 .åê 95 23:32
 To   : The Raven
 Subj : B5 VS. TREK, AGAIN.
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

TR> JH> description", that must mean that another station dropped or
TR> JH>moved it later than the time he was checking.
TR>     Yeah, but it need not be a move to Oh-God-Thirty in the morning.

But what do you want to bet? ;-)

I dunno. JMS has said that "if the show was in trouble, you'd know it",
and "if it wasn't making money it wouldn't still be on the air", but I
have to wonder when I hear about stations switching it around, the lack
of episodes on tape (allegedly because Warner thinks "they won't make
any money), and so forth and so on.

Something I've been meaning to mention, Entertainment Weekly *finally*
gave a little attention to B5, in the form of a mini-interview with
Bruce Boxleitner, mostly about "the impact of Internet feedback on the
show". The whole column seemed designed to give the distinct impression
that the show was in Big Trouble, from their "witty" header of
"Babylon Drive" to the comments that it "having trouble in the ratings",
and several comments from Bruce in a tone that sounded practically
desperate for more viewers. I think he said at least three times that it
wasn't getting the audience it needed or deserved... Which I would tend
to agree with, but from reading the column it sounded as if B5 was about
to be cancelled any minute now. Not very inspiring.

Of course, he also said that there might be room for a movie around the
fourth season "if we get more support, right now there just isn't a
viewer base to support that kind of thing" (very vague quote from poor
memory); and JMS so far has written off the idea of a movie as being
very unlikely in all the online posts I've seen, so maybe Bruce either
just wasn't up-to-date on the status of the show, the interview was
taken some time ago and just recently published, or it was "cleverly
orchestrated propaganda" to try and boost ratings. (although personally
I wouldn't think an interview which practically cried out "please watch
us, we're really good but no one appreciates us!" would be the ideal
marketing strategy).

One interesting comment is that some of the more memorable online
messages were printed out and tacked up on the bulletin boards at the
studio.

-=-
 * Crazy-J * <BOOM!>  "What a stupid place to put a mountain."

--- SLMAIL v3.5C  (#1540)
 * Origin: Robotech þ Lake City's Music*Demo BBS þ [904] 758*9477 (1:3600/7)

Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 342 of 423
 From : Chris Bach                          1:218/804       .óá 16 .åê 95 00:49
 To   : Charles Halliburton
 Subj : X-files
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Charles,

CH>      I think that the X-Files are starting to get booring. It's like they
CH>ran
CH>out of ideas.  The episod with the guy who sucked the fat out of people had
CH>like ten seconds of action.  Yesterday's episod wasn't bad, but it wasn't as
CH>good as the one with Tooms.
CH>  I would like to know what you think so leav me a message.
CH>
CH>SEE YA LATER
CH>
CH>               The truth is out there

      The X-Files are getting righteous right now! What're you talking
about! Did you see the mini-series where Mulder got on the train run by
the government with the alien autopsy?? Great series! And have you seen
a season premiere lately? They've all been great! A couple of the
episodes have lacked as much as others, but others are the best! I love
'um. Dana needs to give up her dumb proof, though. I've never heard of a
guy who sucked out fat, though...

      - Cb the gamemaster
___
* UniQWK v4.2 * The Windows Mail Reader


--- Mosaic v1.31
 * Origin: Castle of the Four Winds ...subjective reality? (1:218/804)

Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 343 of 423
 From : Elizabeth H. Penrose                1:129/26        .óá 16 .åê 95 18:28
 To   : Otto Cordray
 Subj : Quark
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Quark was one of a string of short-lived TV comedies by Mel Brooks (also
involved with "When Things Were Rotten."  I mean, I think it was.

--- Maximus 3.00
 * Origin: SoundingBoard, Pittsburgh PA (1:129/26)

Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 344 of 423
 From : Elizabeth H. Penrose                1:129/26        .óá 16 .åê 95 18:37
 To   : All
 Subj : Narnia Movies
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
I paraphrase an article in the Sunday Times [of London], December 12th, 1995:
     They are changing the Narnia stories in preparation for the movies.  They
have rewritten Susan to integrate martial-arts-like action, and may cast
somebody like Janet Jackson in the role.  In the _Lion_, they had to leave
London during the war:  for the movie, they will probably be fleeing a family
break-up.  However, this is preferable to what they are doing for a future
adaptation of _Great Expectations_, with its first scene occuring at a Florida
yacht club.
     Anybody with an off-line reader?  Could you transcribe this article and
load it onto the echo?  I'm afraid people won't believe me.

--- Maximus 3.00
 * Origin: SoundingBoard, Pittsburgh PA (1:129/26)

Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 345 of 423
 From : Lawrence E Dunlap                   1:106/2927      .cê 17 .åê 95 19:09
 To   : Daniel Nystrom
 Subj : Gibson
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

DN> I truly hope that I will live long enough to try Gibson's cyberspace!
DN> Just once... It seems to be so BIG! :) But I guess they have to
DN> invent the device they used in Neuromancer for 'saving' somebodys
DN> memory (don't remember the name of it, and a friend lend the book of
DN> me). Thats a quite funny thing to. Just the idea of saving a dead
DN> mans brain into a artificial brain makes my skin crawl! :) I would
DN> like to live for ever! But ofcourse, the technological intelligiens
DN> of humans have to increase alot before thats possible! Quite pity,
DN> actually.
DN> But, however I've just read Mona Lisa Overdrive.. It was really good.
DN> I will buy Burning Chrome this weekend when visiting my Girlfriend!


Gibson's Cyberspace would have to develop over decades. His model was using
sensory and volitional components of our brains to interface with the 2060s idea
of the Net coupled to neural linking to the Net with total sensory imput and
data exchange.

I agree with you the cost of developing neural interfacing with a cyberspace
network will cost several hundred millions of dollars and probably won't be used
for artifical surrogate sex stimsim productions. Scientists will have to provide
beneficial uses for such advances and acceptable uses to differing generational
groups and difering cultures.

Lawrence E Dunlap
(1:106/2927)
* SPITFIRE v3.5
--- Alexi/Mail 2.02b (#10000)
 * Origin: Computer Living F'n BBS-Houston, TX 713-444-2927 (1:106/2927)

Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 346 of 423
 From : Brion Lienhart                      1:213/700.2     .ÿò 15 .åê 95 07:22
 To   : The Raven
 Subj : KUBRICK COMMENTS
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On Thu Dec 14, The Raven said to Robert Lidgren:

 RL> BTW:  I don't seem to have access to the entire SFFAN "Kubrick"
 RL> thread. What seems to have been the catalyst for all the fire and
 RL> brimstone?

 -TR>     Someone said "Kubrick's a great director, but as a person he
 -TR>sucks" and Dkimmel had an apolplectic fit.

No, someone said that "because Kubrick is a jerk, I hate his films", and Dkimmel
had a fit.



--- QM v1.31
 * Origin: Ministry of Peace - Carson City, NV (1:213/700.2)

Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 347 of 423
 From : Karen Rodgers                       1:202/1313      .óá 16 .åê 95 12:13
 To   : Robert Lidgren
 Subj : LAST MESSAGE
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 -=> Quoting Robert Lidgren to Karen Rodgers <=-

 -> Only if its well written, and acted.  I refuse to support another
 -> _Lost In Space_, ever!

 RL> Gee, even Dr. Smith and Will Robinson??

 Well, okay, maybe if they've got Robot. ;>

 Karen

... There is no substitute for a genuine lack of preparation.
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

--- GrayQwkMail 2.1
 * Origin: Written Worlds BBS - 619.697.4073 (1:202/1313)

Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 348 of 423
 From : Karen Rodgers                       1:202/1313      .óá 16 .åê 95 12:13
 To   : Otto Cordray
 Subj : SF Comedy
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 -=> Quoting Otto Cordray to Frank Swarbrick <=-

 OC> I haven't seen as much of Red Dwarf as I'd like.

 OC> Do you recall an American series from the late '70's called "Quark"?
 OC> In addition to being a comedy it was a cross between Star Trek and
 OC> Red Dwarf (subject-matter-wise anyway; it certainly predates Red
 OC> Dwarf.) It had a requisite Spock-like character (this one was a plant
 OC> in human form) and the spaceship was a garbage scow. It wasn't zillions
 OC> of years in the future, though, and "Quark" was the Captain of the
 OC> ship.

 The two Bettys and the cowardly robot too.  It made it to a second season
 then died.

 OC> I thought it was pretty funny (of course, I was a dweebish 13 year-old
 OC> at the  time) but there were only a few episodes (max. 10 or so.)

 Yes, I remember the show, one line has stuck with me all these years, "It's
 over there, behind the Roddenberry bush."  I rolled right off the couch.

 Karen

... "Benjamin, why is Kira talking to an invisible person called Al?"
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

--- GrayQwkMail 2.1
 * Origin: Written Worlds BBS - 619.697.4073 (1:202/1313)

Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 349 of 423
 From : Paul Browning                       1:3621/14       .óá 16 .åê 95 15:48
 To   : Judy Hayes
 Subj : Re: SF Comedy
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Love that Quark!!!  Still can't track it down tho...  Want all the episodes to
the series...  That and Man From Atlantis...

-Badger!
--- CNet/3
 * Origin: Niflheim! 615.551.9904 Clarksville TN... (1:3621/14)

Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 350 of 423
 From : Jay Solo                            1:101/175       .ÿò 15 .åê 95 22:45
 To   : Patrick Meinecke
 Subj : Re: The wheel of Time
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 -=> Quoting Patrick Meinecke to All <=-

 PM> I have been reading the wheel of time series from Robert Jordan has
 PM> anyone heard when the next book is due out.

Allegedly it's not due out until April 23 (per the publisher), though the
stores generally show a release date of February.  It's going to be a long
few months!

... Oh dear, I think reality's on the blink again.
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.10 [NR]
 * Origin: TANGENT BBS 617/364-1576 Boston MA tangent.arisia.org (1:101/175)

Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 351 of 423
 From : David Durgee                        1:109/458       .cê 17 .åê 95 06:56
 To   : James Woodcock
 Subj : Re: nuclear
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: InterEcho 1.14 6E011108
In a message dated 12-0795, James Woodcock said to Mark David:

MD> Nuclear power is the most cost-effective and nearly the safest.

Actually if you take ALL factors involved in producing the power, building
the plants, mining the fuel, transportation, disposal, maintenance, etc.
nuclear power is by far the safest.  Ever notice how many coal miners
contract black lung?  Uranium is significantly more energy dense than coal.

JW> Until it fucks up...look under 'Chernobyl' or 'Three Mile Island'

Chernobyl I'll grant you, but Three Mile Island only showed how well the
defense in depth approach of US reactor design works.  There were more
operator errors made in TMI than would have been expected and the still was
NO release of radiation.  It has resulted in re-design of reactor controls
and procedures to avoid repetition of the same mistakes.  There are also
newer designs with even better safety standards available.

You should seriously check out a few books such as "The Health Hazards of
NOT Going Nuclear" and a few others available at your local library.  What
this country needs is more nukes and fewer kooks.

Dave
___
 * MR/2 2.22 NR * UNIX has gurus.  OS/2 has evangelists.  Windows has penitents.


--- InterEcho 1.14
 * Origin: The Shoreline BBS  - (301) 946-2771 - Silver Spring, MD (1:109/458)


Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 352 of 423
 From : David Little                        1:106/7315      .cê 17 .åê 95 16:49
 To   : Jerry Van Kooten
 Subj : Red Dwarf
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
-=< Jerry used the Jedi Mind Trick on me! >=-

 OEO> The show has run for 6 seasons of 6 episodes each.  Craig Charles, who
 OEO> If you get a chance to see it (it shows up on PBS in the US), watch
 OEO> it.  It's hilarious!
 JVK> How many seasons did they broadcast over there? I didn't think it
 JVK> would be popular enough in the US to be broadcast at all.

        They said the same things about Dr. Who, Monty Python, and
Eastenders...and they're the top shown British shows over here!

 JVK> There has been a pilot produced once, to start a separate, American
 JVK> series of Red Dwarf, with only Robert Llewellyn as Kryten from the
 JVK> original cast. That never worked, I guess. Does anyone know where I can
 JVK> get this one on vid? NTSC is fine.

        I'll have to get back to you, but I know of a guy who's giving out...
"Borrowed" copies...<hint, hint>....


                                        -=The DoLittle 8-)=-


... "All in all, today's been a bit of a bummer." -- Kryten

--- FreeMail & Blue Wave/DOS v2.21
 * Origin: The Wizard's Realm ** (713) 946-7315 ** (1:106/7315)

Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 353 of 423
 From : Ryan Kelley                         1:275/160       .îí 18 .åê 95 19:12
 To   : All
 Subj : VGA Planets
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE 1.1+
 * Crossposted from: FidoNet - Local Chatter

Are there any VGA Planets fans out there? If so, reply to me at my internet
address, inferno@genesys-bbs.com



This message will self destruct in 10 seconds.
¢¢ñ.gô¹øö$¢¢



... Never try to out stubborn a cat. You won't do it.
~~~ ReneWave v1.01 [NR]
--- GEcho 1.10+
 * Origin: * The Beast's Lair * (804)498-3070 * Va Beach VA * (1:275/160)

Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 354 of 423
 From : Owen E. Oulton                      1:243/45        .cê 17 .åê 95 12:29
 To   : James Woodcock
 Subj : Re: nuclear
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 RL> I tend to look even more seriously at solar power, wind power and tidal
 RL> power as nifty alternatives too.  Giant HYDRO projects simply won't fill

 MD> Solar and wind power have been attempted in large-scale and they are
 MD> failures.
 JW>
 JW> Solar power has been used in parts of Australia for some years now, and
 JW> JW> it is quite successful. Wind power is growing slowly as the technology
 JW> improves, tidal power is a long way behind but moving up fast.

Tidal power has been very successful in Nova Scotia, Canada, with the Bay of
Fundy Tidal Power Project.  With the world's highest tides (10 metres), they
have a massive water flow.  The secret seems, to me at least, to be
diversification.  Solar power is best where you have large areas of arid land
with little cloud cover, wind power where you have open spaces with constant
winds, et cetera.  Hydro and nuclear have their place, as well.

CFN, O

--- Maximus 2.01wb
 * Origin: Pandora's Box, Ottawa, Ont. 613-829-1209 (1:243/45)

Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 355 of 423
 From : Chris Cobb                          1:3600/7        .cê 17 .åê 95 11:11
 To   : All
 Subj : Akira
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 Are there any Akira fans out there? Just wondering where I could pick up
 some merchandise through mail order or something.

-=-
 * OLX 2.2 * Software unprotects, a hex change operation

--- SLMAIL v3.5C  (#1540)
 * Origin: Robotech þ Lake City's Music*Demo BBS þ [904] 758*9477 (1:3600/7)

Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 356 of 423
 From : Jeff Hancock                        1:3600/7        .cê 17 .åê 95 19:38
 To   : Star Hawk
 Subj : B5 -- Coincidence?
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

SH>  [> Jeff Hancock [> (whatever WOH is....)
SH>     Probably WINGS OF HONNEAMIS: ROYAL SPACE FORCE.  It's the tale of a

I wonder how it related to B5, then... Since the implication was that
someone said JMS borrowed from WOH, and I don't see much similarity
offhand. Perhaps it's a more specific nod (such as the "Forbidden
Planet" scene), assuming there was anything resembling a reference at
all and not just some person's overactive imagination.

-=-
 * Crazy-J * JMS presents: ZOMBIE PYSCHO SPIDERS FROM HELL!!! (in 3-D)

--- SLMAIL v3.5C  (#1540)
 * Origin: Robotech þ Lake City's Music*Demo BBS þ [904] 758*9477 (1:3600/7)

Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 357 of 423
 From : Scott Royall                        1:106/357       .îí 18 .åê 95 19:52
 To   : The Raven
 Subj : nuclear
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
The,

Monday December 18 1995 07:24, The Raven wrote to Chip Griffin:

 TR>      You aren't thinking it through.  Put the collectors in orbit.
 TR> Several of them, placed at the right spots, and you never have the
 TR> problem of overcast days or the sun not shining.
 TR>      Have the collectors convert the light into microwaves, beam the
 TR> microwaves to large antennas on the surface, then convert the
 TR> microwaves to electricity.  Simple.  Large initial investment which
 TR> pays for itself very quickly.

Possibly, but then you then have one of two problems.  You either have massive
antennas gathering the tiny amounts of microwave energy or you're beaming down
large amounts of it (and missing one of the ground arrays would be the stuff of
a SF horror movie!).

Scott

sroyal@accesscomm.net
royall@shellus.com
FAX: 713-556-5464

--- GoldED/2 2.50+
 * Origin:  scott.royall@conch.cld9.com  713-556-5464  (1:106/357)

Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 358 of 423
 From : Tommy Kellerman                     2:205/356       .ÿò 15 .åê 95 14:11
 To   : Tony Trujillo
 Subj : Tom Holt & PTerry
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
In a message dated 10-Dec-95 13:33:00, Tony Trujillo wrote:

 TT> GO AWAY! I DIDN'T WRITE THAT! AHHH! GET OUT OF MY HEAD!

Que?

/// -Tommy K.- \\\  * Lying is just a way of delaying the truth... *

--- Xenolink 1.0 Z.3, EmacsXL.4
 * Origin: NoLimit, Furudal +46-258-10071 (2:205/356)

Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 359 of 423
 From : Tommy Kellerman                     2:205/356       .ÿò 15 .åê 95 14:13
 To   : Brion Lienhart
 Subj : Sci-Fi TV
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
In a message dated 11-Dec-95 09:40:49, Brion Lienhart wrote:

 BL> On Thu Dec 07, Tommy Kellerman said to Shawn Merrow:   SM> I think Sci-Fi
 BL> (fans) should support Sci-Fi tv.

 BL>  -TK>When you say "Sci-Fi TV", do you mean special series and movies in
 BL>  -TK>general,
 BL>  -TK>or do you have some kind of dedicated TV-channel over there ?

 BL> There is a cable channel "The Sci-Fi Channel" that shows every bad SF show
 BL> ever  made, and some of the good ones. Shawn was probably talking about
 BL> the major  networks though. I think that if it's bad SF, it's bad TV and
 BL> should be put out  of our misery as soon as possible. That's one of the

Well, thanx for telling me.

/// -Tommy K.- \\\

--- Xenolink 1.0 Z.3, EmacsXL.4
 * Origin: NoLimit, Furudal +46-258-10071 (2:205/356)

Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 360 of 423
 From : Otto Cordray                        1:106/1393      .îí 18 .åê 95 12:24
 To   : Elizabeth H. Penrose
 Subj : Quark
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Yes, "When Things Were Rotten" (a Robin Hood spoof, fo those who don't remember
it) was far too short-lived. It was cancelled to make way for "The
Bionic Woman."

Otto

--- Maximus/2 2.01wb
 * Origin: The Round Table, BBS of Gulf Coast Mensa * 922-1393 (1:106/1393)

Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 361 of 423
 From : The Raven                           1:363/309       .îí 18 .åê 95 07:24
 To   : Chip Griffin
 Subj : nuclear
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 CG> Solar takes too much land for how much power you get out.  On just a
 CG> few acres in two states the five nuclear power units in the company I
 CG> work for make a combined 4500 MegaWatts electric output (about 1/3 of
 CG> all of New Englands normal demands).  How much land would it take to
 CG> create an equivalent amount of power?  And what would you do at night
 CG> when the sun don't shine?  How large of a battery would you need to
 CG> hold that amount overnight (and then scale up your solar unit to charge
 CG> it after a nights depletion).  And then what about an overcast day?

     You aren't thinking it through.  Put the collectors in orbit.  Several
of them, placed at the right spots, and you never have the problem of
overcast days or the sun not shining.
     Have the collectors convert the light into microwaves, beam the
microwaves to large antennas on the surface, then convert the microwaves to
electricity.  Simple.  Large initial investment which pays for itself very
quickly.


     Jack Butler



... Fido Lie #8:  "Netmail is highly private.  Sysops don't read it."
--- Blue Wave/RA v2.20 [NR]
 * Origin: Forethought BBS -=- Orlando, FL -=- 407-679-6561 (1:363/309)

Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 362 of 423
 From : Mark Holtz                          1:203/1701      .cê 17 .åê 95 23:59
 To   : All
 Subj : Upcoming Babylon Five Episodes
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
(Due to finals, no further updates will be made until after the 15th)

US Air Week      PCode Episode Title
-==============- -===- -=====================================================-
Dec 18-Dec 24 95 219   The Long, Twilight Struggle *REPEAT*
Dec 25-Dec 31 95 221   Comes the Inquisitor *REPEAT*
Jan  1-Jan  7 96 301   Matters of Honor *REPEAT*
Jan  8-Jan 14 96 302   Convictions *REPEAT*
Jan 15-Jan 21 96 303   A Day in the Strife *REPEAT*
Jan 22-Jan 28 96 305   Passing Through Gethsemane *REPEAT*
Jan 29-Feb  4 96 304   Voices of Authority
Feb  5-Feb 11 96 306   Dust to Dust
Feb 12-Feb 18 96 307   Exogenesis
Feb 19-Feb 25 96 308   Messages From Earth
Feb 26-Mar  3 96 309   Point of No Return
-                310   Severed Dreams
-                311   Ceremonies of Light and Dark
-                312   A Late Delivery from Avalon
-                313   Sic Transit Vir
-                314   Ship of Tears
-                315   [Unknown]-Part 1
-                316   [Unknown]-Part 2

BABYLON 5: Episode Information and Spoilers

By David Strauss & Others (dstrauss@netcom.com, replayer@genie.com)

Season Three: I am become Death, the Destroyer of Worlds

  "The Babylon Project was our last, best hope for peace...it failed.  But in
  the year of the Shadow war, it became something greater...our last, best
  hope for victory. The year is 2260. The place: Babylon 5."

  -- Commander Susan Ivanova, Opening Narration, Season Three.

5. (304) Voices of Authority - Written by JMS.  Ivanova and Marcus enlist
Draal's help to attempt to contact more of the First Ones.

6. (306) Dust to Dust - Written by JMS. An addictive drug spreads through the
station, prompting a factfinding visit by Bester. G'Kar reaches a turning
point. Walter Koenig guest stars as Bester. Kosh...we'll see him again outside
his suit in "Dust to Dust," but in a somewhat unconventional fashion....

7. (307) Exogenesis - Written by JMS. Marcus and Dr. Franklin combat an
invasion by parasitic aliens that attach themselves to humans.

8. (308) Messages From Earth - Written by JMS. Sheridan discovers a connection
between President Clark and a sinister figure, leading to a confrontation with
the Earth military. The Nightwatch attempt to take over the station.

9. (309) Point Of No Return - Majel Barrett plays Emperor Turhan's Third Wife,
Lady Morella, a prophetess and seer.

10. (310) Severed Dreams - Major Twist in Babylon series.

11. (311) Ceremonies Of Light and Dark - We find out more about the
relationship between Delenn and Lennier. Harlen Ellison does a narriation.

13&14. (315&316) [Unknown] - Sinclair arrives to try and bring Babylon 4
forward in time.

From JMS....

* There will be an Ivanova romance...but not necessarily with whom you might
  expect.
* Vir is *not* leaving the show. We're making some room for him to do his new
  sitcom; he's in episodes 3 and 5 so far, and more to come, of season 3.
* You'll be seeing more of Zack Allen.
* New characters: well, there's Marcus Cole, a Ranger assigned permanently to
  Babylon 5, played by British actor Jason Carter; we'll see Lyta Alexander
  more this year; and Theo...what can I say about Theo...well, perhaps better
  to let you see for yourself.
* We do plan to continue our practice of getting more ambitious each season;
  we saw virtually none of the homeworlds in year one; in year two we began to
  see more of Narn, and Centauri Prime, with some locations in the latter. We
  will continue to expand in each following year; in year three, we plan to
  show Minbar, more of Centauri Prime, the Narn homeworld, Earth and *maybe*
  the Vorlon homeworld, if I can figure out how to do it at this stage without
  totally imploding the show. New sets: yes, and we're creating situations in
  which we can see more of Earth, Mars, our other local planets, plus Narn,
  Centauri, Minbari and one other major world. As the Shadow War cranks into
  gear, you're going to need a place to meet in security and plan for it, so
  we're also building that. We'll see more of Draal's place on Epsilon 3.  And
  there's one other major set that we'll see in the first episode, and quite a
  bit thereafter. We'll see Minbar at least once in year three, perhaps more.
  We'll see more of the Epsilon 3 complex this coming season, yes.
* What's great is that this season, we haven't had one single episode on the
  level of War Prayer or Infection or Grail, some of our weaker first season
  eps.  The worst we've done is pretty darned good. What we're now working for
  in year three is that they're all better than that at their baseline rating.
  And so far, they're killer . . .  We're also doing some major EFX blow-outs
  of a type other than "they go into space and shoot stuff." Very interesting,
  creative, offbeat stuff.
* Never said the shadow war would be over in one year. Only that it wouldn't
  last three.
* What is the origin of the Human/Minbari connection? You'll find out this
  very season (year three), in no uncertain or ambiguous terms. You're
  assuming that the relationship you saw between Delenn and Sinclair was a
  romantic one. It was a close one, on her part in particular, but not based
  on romance.  We'll explain what that means in year three.
* Yes, the Rangers will play a more important part in year three, and
  Sinclair's part in it will be revealed.
--
David Strauss / dss2k@virginia.edu  <*>
Home Page: http://www.eskimo.com/~dstrauss/
Administrator, New York Islanders Mailing List
The Psi Corps is your friend.  Trust the Corps.

--- MsgPost 1.1
 * Origin: Deep Space Franchise (916) 721-1701 (1:203/1701)

Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 363 of 423
 From : Frank Glover                        1:2613/477      .cê 17 .åê 95 17:28
 To   : Tommy Kellerman
 Subj : Re: Nuclear space drives
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

TK>   FG>    There *may* be circumstances under which black holes that are
TK>   charged
TK>   FG> and/orrotating could be gateways to...somewhere.
TK>
TK>  What is this theory based on?

   Although this possibility has been mentioned in a number of places, Robert
Forward's `Indistinguisable from Magic' is a good place to start.

TK>   FG> consulted physicists to make his novel `Contact' as plausable as
TK>
TK>   FG> possible.
TK>
TK>  Is it newly written?
TK>  I haven't heard of it...

   Early eighties, I think. Should still be posible to order it, or find it in
libraries.

   Frank


--- QuickBBS 2.80 GoldBase (Zeta-1)
 * Origin: The Matrix Data Bank BBS, Rochester, Ny (1:2613/477)

Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 364 of 423
 From : Frank Glover                        1:2613/477      .cê 17 .åê 95 18:05
 To   : Michael Harper
 Subj : Re: Kubrick
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

MH>  get your hands on. This is why you see that same thing with the neon
MH>  tubes in almost every other sf flick. Kubrick was quite honestly
MH>  concerned about the ships and things from 2001 showing up in somebody
MH>  else's movie, and for that reason alone I'm glad he had them
MH>  destroyed. Nobody knew that Richard Edlund would need them fifteen
MH>  years later for 2010, but that's another story...

   I was rather disappointed that the sets and all were destroyed (perhaps
keeping the blueprints around would've been wise, though), but I can see his
point. The effects and saucer design from Forbidden Planet were recycled through
a couple of Twilight Zone episodes (though they at least did them justice), and
even a TV Batman episode....

   Frank


--- QuickBBS 2.80 GoldBase (Zeta-1)
 * Origin: The Matrix Data Bank BBS, Rochester, Ny (1:2613/477)

Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 365 of 423
 From : Michael Harper                      1:123/10        .cê 17 .åê 95 17:02
 To   : The Raven
 Subj : KUBRICK COMMENTS
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 >      Believe it or not, I believe Dan has forgotten that one
 > can dislike a
 > man and love their creations.  I dislike Kubrick, and think
 > he's an arrogant
 > ass.  But I love his films.  I hold (held?) similar opinions
 > about Huston.

YES! Jack, I could kiss you! That's exactly what I've been trying to get across!
Kubrick's assholery doesn't stop him from being a hell of a filmmaker. If he had
a bit more humility, and owned up to his errors more readily, I might think
better of him. As it is, while he's done some awesome work, there are other
directors I like better, mostly because they're not arrogant snobs.

Read Huston's autobiography, _An Open Book_. You'll develop a whole different of
the man. He may have been an arrogant jackass, but he was
a likeable arrogant jackass. That, to me, is the primary difference between him
and Kubrick. Huston at least has a sense of humor...
--- RA/FD/FMail
 * Origin: The Electric Fox - Memphis,TN, U.S.A.  1-901-327-1008 (1:123/10)

Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 366 of 423
 From : Judy Hayes                          1:154/40        .òp 19 .åê 95 07:14
 To   : Paul Browning
 Subj : SF Comedy
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

->Quoshara grinned, "Don't worry, Paul. I'll handle Re: SF Comedy"

 PB> Love that Quark!!!  Still can't track it down tho...  Want all the
 PB> episodes to the series...  That and Man From Atlantis...

Well, good luck with your quest!

      --Quoshara


... Taglines are irrelevant. You will be assimilated into the Blue Wave.
---
 * Origin: Anonymous BBS -=- Non plus Ultra -=- 414-251-2580 (1:154/40)

Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 367 of 423
 From : Todd Sullivan                       1:202/720.3     .òp 12 .åê 95 12:05
 To   : Karen Rodgers
 Subj : Alien Nation
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Whoa, Cool!  Karen Rodgers and Steven Wesen are inna cat fight about "SEAQUEST
2032"!

 SW>> Alien Nation was ok buth the telemovies are better that the original
 SW>> series.
 KR>
 KR>  That was a hard series to top, too.  Outstanding social commentary.

Especially in the 1st (I think) episode where Sykes takes the reactionaries to
task, and mentions the '64 Civil Rights Act.  The capper for that scene was when
he asked a black guy "Aren't you ashamed of your self?"

Todd Sullivan

... Klingon prompt:  Strike any user when ready.

-*- ASTG 1.9

--- Spot 1.3a Unregistered
 * Origin: Todd's Spot in the Continuum (1:202/720.3)

Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 368 of 423
 From : Todd Sullivan                       1:202/720.3     .òp 12 .åê 95 12:12
 To   : Frank Glover
 Subj : B5 -- Coincidence?
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Whoa, Cool!  Frank Glover and me are inna cat fight about "B5 -- Coincidence?"!

 FG>
 TS>>   TR>      Yah.  But then, what would be a good design for a
 TS>>  warship... a
 TS>>   TR> sphere, maybe?
 TS>>
 TS>>  Then it would be "Death Star" and "Skylark of Space" rip-offs,
 TS>>  wouldn't it?
 FG>
 FG>    Remember also that Paramount artists considered a sphere as the
 FG> basic design for Trek Federation ships, before going to a saucer
 FG> design. See `The Making of Star Trek,' and `The Art of Star Trek' for
 FG> details. (Had they done it, Fleet ships might've all been variations on
 FG> the ship Beverly Crusher commanded in `All good Things.')

I've seen both books; I recognized the Pasteur as being the original concept,
which is now being called the Daedelas class in the relatively new Star Trek
Chronology.  Great book; covers all the series (except TAS) and the movies
(pre-"Relics").

Todd Sullivan

... "Hang him with his pen and ink-horn about his neck." --Shakespeare

-*- ASTG 1.9

--- Spot 1.3a Unregistered
 * Origin: Todd's Spot in the Continuum (1:202/720.3)

Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 369 of 423
 From : Nancy Crockett                      1:170/600       .îí 18 .åê 95 21:59
 To   : Tommy Kellerman
 Subj : Highlander
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 TK> I'm afraid that the only computer connections with America
 TK> are through Fido-
 TK> and InterNet.
 TK> Thank you for your valuable help, I do appreciate it.

Anytime. I'll answer what I can, however, I have been known to be wrong, so
don't consider me an expert. I'm just a fan who like the show a lot.

 TK> NC>  Have you seen the one with Adrian's butt shot yet?

 TK> WHAT?! Hahaha! No, I haven't, but that sounded kind of
 TK> kinky...

When I was in Denver, one girl asked him when he was going to have a butt shot.
He seemed very embarrased, but admitted that he had just filmed one the day
before. :) He was in a bathtub, during a flashback. So it was done with some
taste. They have shown sides of breasts before, so it is only fair the females
should have a good scene too! (BG)

 TK> /// -Tommy L.- \\\  * I have something to say: It's better
 TK> to BURN out
 TK>                       than fade away !! *

Great quote! Did you like Clancy Brown in Earth 2? Quite different from the
Kurgon (sp) in Highlander huh?

... IBM: It may be slow, but at least it's expensive.

--- FMail/386 1.02
 * Origin: Tulsa Chat BBS-Tulsa, Ok-(918) 234-1352 (1:170/600)

Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 370 of 423
 From : Dkimmel                             1:101/230       .cê 17 .åê 95 21:01
 To   : The Raven
 Subj : KUBRICK COMMENTS
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
TR> RL> BTW:  I don't seem to have access to the entire SFFAN "Kubrick"
TR> RL> thread. What seems to have been the catalyst for all the fire and
TR> RL> brimstone?

TR>     Someone said "Kubrick's a great director, but as a person he sucks" and
TR>Dkimmel had an apolplectic fit.

No, no one said any such thing, and there's no reason to make things up
about my response either.  In fact, while wild claims about Kubrick's
personality have been offered, it all seems to be in the mind of the
person (people) making the comments.  No evidence to back up any of
these wild claims is offered.

Indeed, what I *calmly* refuted was the utterly moronic claim that
Kubrick had anything to do with the turkey, "They Saved Hitler's Brain."
Someone foolishly claimed that every director had films they were
ashamed of, implying that Kubrick had something to do with it.  I merely
noted, for those slow of wit, that this was not the case.

 * SLMR 2.1a * "Facts are stupid things." -- Ronald Reagan

--- FLAME v1.0
 * Origin: Withouta Net - Drop In Anytime! - 617/846-5416 (1:101/230)

Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 371 of 423
 From : Mark Jones                          1:105/302.47    .cê 17 .åê 95 12:26
 To   : James Woodcock
 Subj : nuclear
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On (07 Dec 95) James Woodcock wrote to Mark David...

 JW>  MD> Nuclear power is the most cost-effective and nearly the safest.
 JW>
 JW>  Until it fucks up...look under 'Chernobyl' or 'Three Mile Island'

"...for a one-thousand megawatt solar-electric conversion
plant...we're talking about covering fifty to a hundred square miles
with 35,000 tons of aluminum, two million tons of concrete, 7,500 tons
of copper, 600,000 tons of steel, 75,000 tons of glass, and 1,500 tons
of other metals such as chromium and titanium--one thousand times the
materials needed to construct a comparable size (1,000 megawatt)
nuclear plant.  These materials are not cheap, and real estate isn't
free.  Neither is the labor to keep miles of collector area clean.
Morever, these materials are all products of heavy, energy-hungry
industries--to the degree that many studies have concluded that
building solar plants would produce a net energy loss--and produce
large amounts of waste, roughly 10 percent of which is highly toxic.
So much for "free" and "clean" solar power."

"In a year a one-thousand megawatt coal-fired plant produces 1.5
million tons of ash--thirty thousand truck loads--that contains large
amounts of known carcinogens and toxins, and can be highly acidic or
alkaline, depending on the sulfer content of the coal burned.  Getting
rid of it is a stupendous task--a *real* waste-disposal problem--and
it ends up being dumped in shallow landfills that are easily leached
out by groundwater, or simply being piled up as mountains on any
convenient site.  And that's only the solid waste.  In addition there
is the waste that's disposed straight up the smokestack, which
includes six hundred pounds of carbon dioxide and ten pounds of sulfer
dioxide every SECOND and the same quantity of nitrogen oxides as
200,000 automobiles."

"A one thousand megawatt nuclear plant, by contrast, produces nothing
in addition to its cubic yard of high-level waste, because there isn't
any chemical combustion--no ash,  no gases, no smokestack.  Because of
the compactness of nuclear processes, nuclear power constitutes the
first major technology in history in which it has actually been
possible to contain ALL the wastes produced and isolate them from the
environment...."

   --James P. Hogun, "Know Nukes"

P.S.  Three Mile Island didn't hurt or kill ANYONE.  As for Chernobyl,
we'd need a couple of dozens such disasters every year to kill as many
people as die in traffic accidents annually around the world.


--- PPoint 1.78
 * Origin: Folcroft Sanitarium (hsmith@cure.com) (1:105/302.47)

Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 372 of 423
 From : Mark Jones                          1:105/302.47    .îí 18 .åê 95 16:21
 To   : Lawrence E Dunlap
 Subj : Gibson
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On (17 Dec 95) Lawrence E Dunlap wrote to Daniel Nystrom...

 LE> I agree with you the cost of developing neural interfacing with a
 LE> cyberspace network will cost several hundred millions of dollars and
 LE> probably won't be used for artifical surrogate sex stimsim
 LE> productions. Scientists will have to provide beneficial uses for such
 LE> advances and acceptable uses to differing generational groups and
 LE> difering cultures.

   Wanna bet?  If it's *possible* to do pornographic sim/stim,
somebody *will* do it.  And he'll end up with more money than God.
Especially if AIDS continues to be a problem.  How much safer can sex
get, after all?
   As for the immense cost of the technology--yes, at first.  But
computers once filled rooms and cost zillions of dollars.  Now you can
buy computers for a few hundred dollars that outperform anything from
just a few years ago.

   If they ever actually manage to create a reliable and safe
brain/machine interface (which I think will be much harder than many
people assume), lots of different individuals and groups will be
working on lots of different uses for it.
   My personal favorite:  a high-tech medical emergency kit, complete
with computer and headset.  When you need the kit, you slip on the
headset and turn on the power.  Presto!  You know how to *use* all
that keen equipment now!


--- PPoint 1.78
 * Origin: Folcroft Sanitarium (hsmith@cure.com) (1:105/302.47)

Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 373 of 423
 From : Ecarey                              1:101/230       .îí 18 .åê 95 09:12
 To   : James Woodcock
 Subj : NUCLEAR
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
JW> MD> Nuclear power is the most cost-effective and nearly the safest.

JW> Until it fucks up...look under 'Chernobyl' or 'Three Mile Island'

Chernobyl was [is still] a badly outdated and badly maintained facility.
You couldn't build a reactor like that anywhere in the industrialized
world today; the few that are still in existence are in the process of
being decommissioned except in the old Soviet bloc countries, where
they're trying to get the money to decommision and replace them.

But even given its bad design, Chernobyl was unusually badly run, and
Soviet disaster response was lousy. Note that the initial problem that
occurred at Three Mile Island was exactly the same as the initial
problem at Chernobyl - exactly the same original mistake was made - but
at TMI, nobody died, nobody even got sick, nothing was evacuated for
more than a few days. This was the result of a combination of better
design [proper containment buildings and safety equipment], and better
disaster response [they had trained people readily available to deal
properly with the situation], and the fact that in a free country, you
can't keep the lid on very long, so they _had_ to act quickly and
effectively, because they were doing it in the full glare of publicity.

Chernobyl and the previous steam explosion in the Urals in fifties
represent the overwhelming majority of all deaths that can be attributed
to nuclear power plants. Nuclear power plants really are much safer to
operate than coal or oil power plants, vastly safer when you include the
dangers of coal mining, without which you don't have coal-fired power
plants.

The problems of the nuclear power industry are these:

1)They have lousy p.r. They are clueless when it comes to the task of
conveying the real benefits, safety- and environment-wise, of nuclear
power, and they are so arrogant they don't understand why they should
have to.

2)They too often choose to site plants in places where, in the
exceedingly rare event of a serious problem arising, effective
evacuation would be _impossible_, and attempting it would be very
dangerous - on Cape Cod, where the _only_ road out goes directly by the
plant, and in Seabrook, NH, a major seaside resort area that can't
handle its _normal_ summer traffic when nobody's in a panic, are my
favorite examples. This means that although the chances of a real
disaster are low compared to other types of plants, siting choices
artificially raise the possible losses in life and property. There's no
excuse for this.

3)The nuclear waste problem, which is far more of a problem than some on
this echo are willing to concede. It's solvable, but only if the nuclear
industry first solves problem #1, their p.r. incompetance and their
arrogance, and actually _address_ the waste problem.

In, um, ROBOTS AND EMPIRE,  I believe, Asimov has his characters refer
to the "worst nuclear disaster in history", Three Mile Island. This was
published just shortly before Chernobyl, demonstrating once again the
dangers of attempting to be too specific in your prophecies.:)

 * OLX 2.1 TD * It's only a hobby ... only a hobby ... only a

--- FLAME v1.0
 * Origin: Withouta Net - Drop In Anytime! - 617/846-5416 (1:101/230)

Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 374 of 423
 From : ROBERT LIDGREN                      1:134/10        .òp 19 .åê 95 11:40
 To   : TODD SULLIVAN
 Subj : KUBRICK COMMENTS
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
-> In utmost seriousness, and all sarcasm aside, that is a reply header,
-> not a comment; I use it here, as it seems remarkably appropriate,
-> considering that this area tends to cater to "avid discussions".
->
-> If you took it personally, well, that's not my problem.

Hi Todd!

Gee, sorry about that!  I forget that some people use automated intros
to quotes.  My mistake.

(As he red-facedly saunters off into the mist).
--- PCBoard 15.2
 * Origin: 32 lines 40 Gig BBS, Realtime InterNet SLIP (403)299-9900 (1:134/10)

Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 375 of 423
 From : ROBERT LIDGREN                      1:134/10        .òp 19 .åê 95 11:46
 To   : MICHAEL HARPER
 Subj : KUBRICK COMMENTS
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
-> Agreed on both counts. I'm not disputing the man's skill, I'm just
-> saying that I personally don't like him, and I don't consider him an
-> artist without peer. He has done some things that were astonishing,
-> and he's done some things that were at best dog puke. High-dollar dog
-> pu, but still dog puke. Even Shakespeare had his off days. So did
-> Hitchcock. Kubrick's not immune. He just doesn't like to own up to
-> his mistakes.

I probably wouldn't want to invite him out to dinner either.  But then,
I like Woody Allen's work but wouldn't ask him to babysit my daughter
(if you get my drift).

-> And here we come to another pet peeve concerning this man. Kubrick is
-> a DIRECTOR. He tells actors what to do. Sometimes he's a
-> producer, and sometimes he writes. He doesn't do everything on a
-> film. Without Doug Trumbull's effects and Arthur Clarke's story, 2001
-> wouldn't exist. Kubrick may have been the ramrod, but 2001 was made
-> by a large, very talented team. Not by one egotistical auteur.

I like actor's directors like Clint Eastwood.  Now there's a talented
man and a man with class!

-> The auteur approach is something that really bugs me bad. A lot of
-> filmmakers have this attitude, and it's annoying. No matter how good
-> they are, they have nothing without the writers, actors, effects
-> people, and all the other myriad laborers behind the scenes. Someone
-> should remind them of this...

Well, I guess here we come full circle.  I agree with everything here.

-> Agreed. I don't think Dkimmel and/or whoever else is a moron because
-> they disagree with me. I reserve the right to my opinion, and
-> respect their right to their opinion. 'Nuff said.

What I like about YOUR writing is that it is clear, pointed and
powerfully executed.  There is not a trace of ambiguity.  You think
things through before writing them IMHO.

Cheers and all the best to you and your family for Christmas and the New
Year.

-Rob
--- PCBoard 15.2
 * Origin: 32 lines 40 Gig BBS, Realtime InterNet SLIP (403)299-9900 (1:134/10)

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 Msg  : 376 of 423
 From : ROBERT LIDGREN                      1:134/10        .òp 19 .åê 95 11:50
 To   : ALL
 Subj : X-FILES CHRISTMAS
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
DID ANYONE ELSE SEE THE X-FILES CHRISTMAS STORY?

I found Mulder to be a little too unsympathetic to Scully's inquiries
abouyt miracles etc.  She ALWAYS seems to go along and at least listen
to his view-point.  Wasn't he a bit too much of a doubting Thomas
considering all the weird and wonderful cases they have exp[erienced
together?
--- PCBoard 15.2
 * Origin: 32 lines 40 Gig BBS, Realtime InterNet SLIP (403)299-9900 (1:134/10)

Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 377 of 423
 From : Roelof Otten                        2:282/214       .cê 17 .åê 95 01:53
 To   : Jerry Van Kooten
 Subj : Red Dwarf
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Hello Jerry!

Friday December 15 1995, Jerry Van Kooten writes to Roelof Otten:

 JVK> Just a matter of personal taste, obviously.

Yep!

 JVK> Any other combinations of SF and comedy you recommend?

Books, by Sheckley or Russell.


Roelof

--- GED/2 2.50+/FMail1.02+
 * Origin: The Cheesemaker's Home (2:282/214)

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 Msg  : 378 of 423
 From : Myranya Werlemann                   2:283/1701      .cê 17 .åê 95 15:24
 To   : Patrick Meinecke
 Subj : The wheel of Time
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 -=> Quoting Patrick Meinecke to All <=-

 PM> I have been reading the wheel of time series from Robert Jordan has
 PM> anyone heard when the next book is due out.

 At a con in November I heard Februari, but I haven't been able to
 confirm that. If anyone got definite info, I'ld like to know, as
 well...

 Greetx,

 Myranya.

... Death is lighter than a feather, duty heavier than a mountain.
--- Blue Wave/RA v2.12 [NR]
 * Origin: EMICLAER BBS * +31 - 33 - 455 32 86 (2:283/1701)

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 Msg  : 379 of 423
 From : Jerry Van Kooten                    2:280/901.37    .îí 18 .åê 95 17:37
 To   : Christian Kent
 Subj : Red Dwarf / TNG crossover
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Hello Christian,

Christian Kent to All (01-Dec-95, 17:31:13)
Subject: Red Dwarf / TNG crossover

 CK> Can somebody please send me the Red Dwarf / Star Trek:TNG crossover?
 CK> I've got to see that subplot with Riker and Data again!

Thought I was a Red Dwarf fan... Whazzat crossover you're talking about?

 CK> ... "Uh oh!  Too slow, chicken merango!  Too slow for this cat." ÄÄ Cat

See ya,
Jerry

... I had lectures first thing in the middle of the afternoon! - Lister

--- Terminate 3.00/Pro
 * Origin: Terminate is now specially built for Internet! (2:280/901.37)

Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 380 of 423
 From : Myranya Werlemann                   2:283/1701      .òp 19 .åê 95 07:20
 To   : Judy Hayes
 Subj : Personal Favorites.
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 -=> Quoting Judy Hayes to Myranya Werlemann <=-

 ->Cursing at a broken Holoprojector Quoshara heard: Personal Favorites.

 Don't you hate it when those things keep breaking down? The worst has
 got to be to hear the Doctor complain until they have been fixed. <G>

 JH> Contact Bill Hedrick over on the Klingon Echo, if you get that.  Oh,
 JH> or on the DS9 Echo...I know you get that one.  He's got great ideas on
 JH> keeping cool - plus, I happen to know that he just recently did
 JH> Cardassian make-up for someone.  I'm sure he would be happy to help you
 JH> with that as well.

 Alright, I'll ask him. I might try to find someone here to do the
 actual make-up, though. I am rather small and it'll probably be
 better if it could really get fitted to suit me. The hardest thing I
 think is to blend the edges. In front of the mirror it'll look all
 good, then after about an hour, the stuff on the applications dries
 to a different color than the stuff on the skin. :-(

 JH> I can relate to that...mine have hidden jewelry, pill bottles, every
 JH> pen or pencil I own and all my socks - but I love them any way. <BG>

 Yeah, I just don't like it when he hides stuff I desperately need
 _now_! <G> He hasn't been hiding as many things, lately. I gues I
 should knock on wood now. <knock, knock>

 JH> Been there, done that too.....but I'm old now.  Can't get through a
 JH> whole  weekend with only 5 hours of sleep and nothing to eat but tea
 JH> and  "Ding Dongs" any more.

 It wears me out as well. I wouldn't want to try it every week. Still,
 once I am there it just kind of happens. And yeah, I'm dead on
 Monday, but that's just another day after the Con, so what the hey.
 <G>

 [backward con]

 MW> it. Anyway, it will have been lots of fun, if we don't/didn't get all
 MW> mixed up in the time table... <BG>
 JH> Okay.... <g>

 I'll let you know some time how it worked out/is (was?) going to have
 worked out... eh...

 JH> ... A stich in time saves nine, but does that include temporal
 JH> anomolies? -!-

 I would say you would have to be late, when dealing with temporal
 anomalies, so that you are really even earlier, and... Aargghh!

 Merry Christmas & a happy New Year!

 Greetx,

 Myranya.

... "A nebula. What were we doing in a nebula?" -Holodoc
--- Blue Wave/RA v2.12 [NR]
 * Origin: EMICLAER BBS * +31 - 33 - 455 32 86 (2:283/1701)

Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 381 of 423
 From : Craig Palme                         1:120/999       .pä 13 .åê 95 22:41
 To   : Shawn Merrow
 Subj : Seaquest 2032
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.11  94-2158

SM>** News Flash **
SM>Seaquest 2032 has been cancealed. No reason known.
SM>Posilbly killed by the Nelsons. Recomnd kill the
SM>Nelson family. For crimes aginst the science
SM>fiction audieance.

Now why would Ozzy, Harriet, Dave and Rickie want to kill off Seaquest?
Unless you mean Neilsen?


---
 * OLXWin 1.00b * Vegetarians eat vegetables. Beware of Humanitarians.


--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.11
 * Origin: CDS#2 BIG BOARD, 810-548-7078  (1:120/999.0)

Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 382 of 423
 From : Chris Baugh                         1:105/290.5     .ÿò 15 .åê 95 09:48
 To   : Chip Griffin
 Subj : NUCLEAR paradox?
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 CG> You got it backwards.  Fusion requires such high temperatures that it
 CG> must use magnetic containment and the like ... It is MUCH LESS safe
 CG> then fusion.

Fusion is much less safe than fusion?

--- PPoint 1.98
 * Origin: a warehouse full of messages (1:105/290.5)

Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 383 of 423
 From : Steven Wesen                        1:271/236       .òp 19 .åê 95 21:32
 To   : Frank Swarbrick
 Subj : Re: Red Dwarf
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE 1.11+
Besides you sould see the low budget American Sci Fi

--- GEcho 1.11+
 * Origin: Time Machine Node 2, Newport News, VA 595-9383 (1:271/236)

Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 384 of 423
 From : Otto Cordray                        1:106/1393      .pä 20 .åê 95 23:40
 To   : Mark Jones
 Subj : Gibson
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 MJ>    Wanna bet?  If it's *possible* to do pornographic sim/stim,
 MJ> somebody *will* do it.  And he'll end up with more money than God.
 MJ> Especially if AIDS continues to be a problem.  How much safer can sex
 MJ> get, after all?

Safe for whom? Dennis Miller once posed this thought:

When an unemployed steelworker can sit at home and pay $29.95 to
have "sex" with Cindy Crawford or Claudia Schiffer, crack is going to
seem like bubble gum by comparison.

Otto

--- Maximus/2 2.01wb
 * Origin: The Round Table, BBS of Gulf Coast Mensa * 922-1393 (1:106/1393)

Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 385 of 423
 From : Todd Sullivan                       1:202/720.3     .òp 19 .åê 95 13:08
 To   : The Raven
 Subj : nuclear
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Whoa, Cool!  The Raven and Chip Griffin are inna cat fight about "nuclear"!

 TR>      You aren't thinking it through.  Put the collectors in orbit.
 TR> Several
 TR> of them, placed at the right spots, and you never have the problem of
 TR> overcast days or the sun not shining.
 TR>      Have the collectors convert the light into microwaves, beam the
 TR> microwaves to large antennas on the surface, then convert the
 TR> microwaves to
 TR> electricity.  Simple.  Large initial investment which pays for itself
 TR> very quickly.

True enough, Jack, but the problems and the lead time would put it into the 22nd
century the way things go in the present.  And until the dependence on fossil
fuels is gone, it won't happen any faster.

We have nuclear *now*.  What we need is education and dispelling of
mythical/apocalyptic mis/disinformation.  Without an informed populace, the "no
nukes" crowd will have their say, as will those who think solar is science
fiction.  They will until oil/gas/coal are prohibitively expensive and in short
supply.

Todd Sullivan

... "Please report all lost or stolen taglines to your Sysop."
     <snort!> Yeah, right.

-*- ASTG 1.9

--- Spot 1.3a Unregistered
 * Origin: Todd's Spot in the Continuum (1:202/720.3)

Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 386 of 423
 From : Michael Harper                      1:123/10        .òp 19 .åê 95 17:10
 To   : Chris Ogniben
 Subj : Space: Above & Beyond
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 -=> While shaving a goat, Chris Ogniben told David Johnston all about In
 -=> General...
 CO>
 CO> I was wondering about when this topic, of discussion with Space
 CO> Above and Beyond was going to start.

 Consider it started...

 CO> How do you people feel of Vansen, wonder what her whole name is.

I won't try to speak for the rest of this bunch, but personally I think
Kristen Cloke, the woman who plays Vansen, is a fairly talented actress,
in addition to being a seriously hot babe. Maybe it's just my
middle-aged hormones talking, but to these old eyes she oozes sex
appeal. I know that sounds sexist as hell, but it's true. Something
about the woman makes me want to grab her and go running to the bushes.
She is living, breathing proof that a woman can be tough, smart, and
sexy all at once.


... The important part about playing chicken is knowing when to flinch.
--- RA/FD/FMail
 * Origin: The Electric Fox - Memphis,TN, U.S.A.  1-901-327-1008 (1:123/10)

Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 387 of 423
 From : Michael Harper                      1:123/10        .òp 19 .åê 95 17:10
 To   : Todd Sullivan
 Subj : Re: Kubrick vs King?
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 While shaving a goat, Todd Sullivan told The Raven all about Kubrick vs
 King...

 TR>      His unreasoning hatred of Stanley Kubrick is just as interesting
 TR> as your unreasoning idolization of the man.

 TS> Funny thing is, it doesn't show up in _Danse_ _Macabre_.  I guess
 TS> Steven's managaed to keep his personal feelings out of his writings,
 TS> which isn't as easy as it sounds, going by the flak we're seeing.

Steve keeps it under control by not talking about it. Plus, there's been
so damn many gallons of water under the bridge since then that maybe it
doesn't bug him anymore...

And I don't _hate_ Kubrick. I dislike him. If I hated him, I'd be
running over his dog with a steamroller. All I'm doing here is
expressing my dislike for a man that I consider to be an arrogant jerk.
Last I heard, it was still legal to express yourself publicly... and
just as legal to disagree with someone else's opinion. I may not agree
with Dkimmel, but I'll defend with my life his right to his opinion.



... Catch the Blue Wave!
--- RA/FD/FMail
 * Origin: The Electric Fox - Memphis,TN, U.S.A.  1-901-327-1008 (1:123/10)

Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 388 of 423
 From : Michael Harper                      1:123/10        .òp 19 .åê 95 17:10
 To   : The Raven
 Subj : Re: Q HEADING FOR VOYAGER
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 -=> While shaving a goat, The Raven told Karmin St.Jean all about Q HEADING FOR
 -=> VOYAGER...

 TR> Close, but no cigar.  Stan Putterman (and, for that matter,
 TR> George Francisco) is played by Eric Pierpoint.  Gerritt Graham plays
 TR> Matthew Sikes (not to mention Achilles from "Robot Jox").

That's _Gary_ Graham, Jack...

Gerrit Graham is best remembered as Beef, the gay metalhead rocker from
"Phantom Of The Paradise". More recently he was in an episode of B5 as a
Centauri nobleman; the episode was "Signs And Portents".



... I'm a troubleshooter.  I find trouble, and I shoot it.
--- RA/FD/FMail
 * Origin: The Electric Fox - Memphis,TN, U.S.A.  1-901-327-1008 (1:123/10)

Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 389 of 423
 From : Michael Harper                      1:123/10        .òp 19 .åê 95 17:10
 To   : Mark Jones
 Subj : SeaQuest
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 -=> While shaving a goat, Mark Jones told Shawn Merrow all about Sci-Fi TV...

 MJ> When the Seaquest crew did an episode about giant (200') alligators...

 MJ> When they discovered Neptune's Pyramid, which was "older than time"
 MJ> yet was also supposedly built by the "ancient Greeks" a THOUSAND years
 MJ> ago (about the time the Saxons and the Normans were fighting in
 MJ> 1066...they not only demonstrated total ignorance of history.

 MJ> They demonstrated that they didn't CARE how ignorant they were--nor
 MJ> did they care, apparently, whether the audience knew how blatantly
 MJ> stupid the characters sounded.

 MJ> It's an insult to the viewers.  It *deserved* to be cancelled.

What SeaQuest deserved was the return of Rockne O'Bannon as showrunner,
instead of a moron like Patrick Hasburgh who cares nothing for internal
logic and accuracy. Rock would've thrown half of last season's episodes
into the dumper on first reading. I stopped watching the show last
season, and when Scheider said he was leaving, that clinched it. He had
it right when he said that they took a well-written, scientifically
accurate (for the most part) show and turned it into Baywatch.

For my money, the best depiction in sf of undersea operations is still
_The Abyss_.

... Two most common elements in the universe: Hydrogen & Stupidity.
--- RA/FD/FMail
 * Origin: The Electric Fox - Memphis,TN, U.S.A.  1-901-327-1008 (1:123/10)

Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 390 of 423
 From : Michael Harper                      1:123/10        .òp 19 .åê 95 17:10
 To   : Robert Parson
 Subj : SEAQUEST 2032
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 -=> While shaving a goat, Robert Parson told Shawn Merrow all about SEAQUEST
 -=> 2032...

 RP> With the dramatic change in focus and casting each season on Seaquest,
 RP> it was hard to keep track of what was going on.  It's really too bad.
 RP> It was starting to be a watchable show (with the exception of the
 RP> Supertrain episode).  If I were a network programmer, I probably would
 RP> have given it the boot after the first season.

So would I, except I think Amblin had a deal with NBC for a guaranteed
two-season run. First season was very derivative of TNG, but it was
still a good one. The show went downhill fast when O'Bannon pulled out,
and picked up speed when Hasburgh came aboard...

 RP> Science Fiction has seldom received big numbers, with the exception of
 RP> Star Trek.  It remains a programming niche, and probably will for the
 RP> forseeable future.

Ah, but look at it from the viewpoint of network execs. The prevalent
attitude has been that sci-fi doesn't work on television. Star Trek
can't be sci-fi, because it does work on television. This one blind spot
is what keeps anything other than Trek from having a decent shot on the
tube; if it's skiffy and it ain't Trek, they think the audience won't go
for it. Anytime an sf/fantasy series fails, they point to it as further
proof of their contention. Look at V. Look at The Flash. Look at
Galactica. On and on.

One bright spot; Alien Nation is returning to Fox. That's the smartest
move they've made since Space: Above And Beyond went into production...
:)

 RP> * Silver Xpress V4.3 SW23473

 RP> -!- QScan/PCB v1.17b / 01-0162
 RP>  ! Origin: Jackalope Junction 501-785-5381 Ft Smith AR (1:3822/1)




... "The clown is sometimes the best part of the circus." -- G.B. Shaw
--- RA/FD/FMail
 * Origin: The Electric Fox - Memphis,TN, U.S.A.  1-901-327-1008 (1:123/10)

Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 391 of 423
 From : Michael Harper                      1:123/10        .òp 19 .åê 95 17:10
 To   : Myra I Fox
 Subj : Re: Tom Holt & PTerry
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 -=> While shaving a goat, Myra I Fox told Tony Trujillo all about Tom Holt &
 -=> PTerry...

 MIF> I am reading "Who's Afraid of Beowulf?" now. I couldn't find it in the
 MIF> fubs and I have it on loan from a friend.  (Thanks, Mike!)

You're welcome, dearest. Enjoy...



... "Lo, how the hollow fiend speaks within him!" --Shakespeare
--- RA/FD/FMail
 * Origin: The Electric Fox - Memphis,TN, U.S.A.  1-901-327-1008 (1:123/10)

Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 392 of 423
 From : Piotr W. Cholewa                    2:484/10.6      .óá 09 .åê 95 14:54
 To   : Anne Hardcastle
 Subj : Gibson
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 Anne Hardcastle wrote in a message to Ritchie Funk:

 AH> I went to see the movie Johnny Mnemonic, when we went there
 AH> were only two other people in the theatre!!   It was pretty
 AH> good if you are a fan of his stuff and do alot of filling in
 AH> the holes.  The visual representation of the world he
 AH> describes in the novels is for me very nice.  The plot of
 AH> the entire story is a bit goofy and our pal Mr. Wooden Actor
 AH> Keanu is not the best.  Some of it I liked alot, and some
 AH> was bad (I guess that's true with all movies, huh?).  Check
 AH> it out, if you like WG at all it is worth $3 to rent the
 AH> video. --- CNet/3

I've seen JM two weeks ago and it seemed good enough. Reeves is not the best
possible, but I liked the movie nonetheless. True, I've read the story behind
and I knew the background. Filling holes was necessary. I'm interested in
opinions of people not knowing the story. Are there any?
   PWC
--- GEcho 1.00
 * Origin: PWC entry (2:484/10.6)

Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 393 of 423
 From : Darre LuAllen                       1:3637/1        .òp 19 .åê 95 14:10
 To   : All
 Subj : Brisco Country
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Well, how about that.  First, I learn that TNT has bought the rights
to show reruns of Babylon 5, starting in a few years.  Now, I find
out that they will be rerunning _The Adventures of Brisco Country Jr._
in January.

Well, I might start liking Ted Turner yet.  :->

                                            Darre LuAllen
                                            Putting my cowboy
                                            hat back on
___
 * OFFLINE 1.56 * That's an amazing horse Brisco. --He's not that amazing.  Took
him two tries.

--- Maximus/2 3.00
 * Origin: Cumberland BBS TN 615/526-3347 V34 (1:3637/1)

Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 394 of 423
 From : Lori Brown                          1:363/1701      .òp 19 .åê 95 21:45
 To   : The Raven
 Subj : Re: Seaquest 2032
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Jack:

We didn't see you at the SeaQuest auction. We went...didn't buy anything. The
high item was the stinger that went for $5400. Other things went for $50 and up.
Out of our range! But it was interesting.

Also: Do you have a good contact address for the Highlander cast/production
company? I want to contact them for TachyCon.

We'll have to get together to play Magic again sometime (without the fire! :) )
Later.

Lori

... Condense soup, not books!
--- QuickBBS 2.80 (Zeta-1)
 * Origin: NCC-1701 - Orlando, FL   407-380-1701 (1:363/1701)

Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 395 of 423
 From : Lori Brown                          1:363/1701      .òp 19 .åê 95 21:54
 To   : Darre LuAllen
 Subj : ST Voyager
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

DL>   FG>    I find that ST:Voyager seems to indulge in technobabble
DL>   FG> more than its predecessors do, but not so much that I
DL>   FG> can't live with it....
DL>
DL>   Doesn't it bug you that everyone in a uniform seems to know
DL>  everything
DL>   about everything, and yet everyone is s'pose to be some find of
DL>   specialist?  They must use some *serious* "sleep teachers" or some
DL>  such.

Actually, in the Academy, everyone learns about all ship systems (at least a
basic knowledge) before they specialize in one department (such as Engineering,
etc). So everyone would know how to run each station and the basics of all
ship's operations. And depending on their past background (ie Janeway was a
science officer I think before being promoted to Capt), they may have more
knowledge in one field than another.

Adm. Lori Anne Brown, CO USS PAEGAN, Region 2, SFI
email: Lori.Brown%274@Satlink.oau.org

... Iraqi Bingo: B-52...F-16...A-10...F-18...F-117...B-2...
--- QuickBBS 2.80 (Zeta-1)
 * Origin: NCC-1701 - Orlando, FL   407-380-1701 (1:363/1701)

Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 396 of 423
 From : Todd Sullivan                       1:202/720.3     .pä 20 .åê 95 09:32
 To   : Jeff Hancock (CJ!)
 Subj : B5 -- Coincidence?
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Whoa, Cool!  Jeff Hancock and Star Hawk are inna cat fight about "B5 --
Coincidence?"!

 SH>>  [> Jeff Hancock [> (whatever WOH is....)
 SH>>     Probably WINGS OF HONNEAMIS: ROYAL SPACE FORCE.  It's the tale of a

 JH> I wonder how it related to B5, then... Since the implication was that
 JH> someone said JMS borrowed from WOH, and I don't see much similarity
 JH> offhand. Perhaps it's a more specific nod (such as the "Forbidden
 JH> Planet" scene), assuming there was anything resembling a reference at
 JH> all and not just some person's overactive imagination.

Actually, it's hard to tell where anything comes from, and when an idea *is*
original; it all resembles nearly everything ever written or put on celluliod
and tape.  You could almost say that it can all be traced back to the Illiad and
the Oddessy, but even those don't cover it all.

Todd Sullivan

... "Ill met by moonlight." --Shakespeare

-*- ASTG 1.9

--- Spot 1.3a Unregistered
 * Origin: Todd's Spot in the Continuum (1:202/720.3)

Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 397 of 423
 From : Frank Swarbrick                     1:104/825       .pä 20 .åê 95 22:30
 To   : Steven Wesen
 Subj : Re: Red Dwarf
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12  92-0022
On 12-19-95  21:32 My Very Good Friend Steven Wesen said:

 SW> Besides you sould see the low budget American Sci Fi

You mean like Space Precinct?  Oops, that's filmed in England as
well...

... Make You Die, Your Brain
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12
 * Origin: The Bailey Information Exchange BBS, 28.8k v.fc  (1:104/825.0)

Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 398 of 423
 From : Bianca Wesslak                      1:132/152       .pä 20 .åê 95 22:09
 To   : Todd Sullivan
 Subj : nuclear BS
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
From a woman with an overactive imagination.

 TS> Chernobyl, yes; TMI, no.  Not once did the reactor core become exposed
 TS> to open air at TMI.  Comparing water to graphite moderated reactors is
 TS> as bad as comparing apples and oranges; little if any coresponedence.
 TS> If nuclear power was so god-awfully dangerous, how do you explaing the
 TS> success of the US Navy's submarines?  Don't say dumb luck; you've no
 TS> knowledge, other than what those rags have mis-represented; I was
 TS> involved.

Maybe the core never hit air but the three mile Island explosian is a good
example of how dangerous nuclear energy is.  Three mile Island is still
being cleaned out by robots due to the dangerous radiation.  Lead is the only
shield that I know of that can withstand radiation, that and cockroaches.
As for the success of the navy subs, I won't say anything on them due to no
knowledge, but I'd hate to see one get blown up.



... "For it is the doom of men that they forget." - Merlin
--- Blue Wave v2.12 [NR]
 * Origin: The Cereal Port BBS (OS/2) Rindge,NH 603-899-3335 (1:132/152)

Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 399 of 423
 From : Bianca Wesslak                      1:132/152       .pä 20 .åê 95 22:19
 To   : David Durgee
 Subj : Re: nuclear
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
From a woman with an overactive imagination.

 MD> Nuclear power is the most cost-effective and nearly the safest.

 DD> Actually if you take ALL factors involved in producing the power,
 DD> building the plants, mining the fuel, transportation, disposal,
 DD> maintenance, etc. nuclear power is by far the safest.  Ever notice how
 DD> many coal miners contract black lung?  Uranium is significantly more
 DD> energy dense than coal.

 Your looking at the present and not the future.  Radiation half life takes
 centuries and maybe eons to become stable.  Uranium hurts and kills more
 people over time than does black lung.  Point, Nagasaki and hiroshima, those
 that were not killed by the blast died from cancer, exposure and other
 sickness, also people in the navy who were swimming in the ocean during the
 attack that were in our navy.  Evidence the book hiroshima.

 DD> Chernobyl I'll grant you, but Three Mile Island only showed how well
 DD> the defense in depth approach of US reactor design works.  There were
 DD> more operator errors made in TMI than would have been expected and the
 DD> still was NO release of radiation.  It has resulted in re-design of
 DD> reactor controls and procedures to avoid repetition of the same
 DD> mistakes.  There are also newer designs with even better safety
 DD> standards available.

 Not always the safety designs from what I understand are based on the past.
 A reactor is good for a certain number of years, than what do you do with it.
 You have left over radiation to still deal with.  Another thing we still
 have not found a permanent way or safe way to store radiation for a long
 period of time all that we have is temp solutions.  Also the people they hire
 for the controls don't have to go to college, high school training is enough.
 No amound of defence will ever be enough!

... You can twist perceptions, reality won't budge.
--- Blue Wave v2.12 [NR]
 * Origin: The Cereal Port BBS (OS/2) Rindge,NH 603-899-3335 (1:132/152)

Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 400 of 423
 From : Piotr W. Cholewa                    2:484/10.6      .pä 06 .åê 95 12:10
 To   : Todd Sullivan
 Subj : awesome epic
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
   Hi Todd,

 Todd Sullivan wrote in a message to David Cougle:

 DC> Get off you lazy butts, go to your library, and check out either Nine
 DC> Princes in Amber or The Chronicles of Amber v.1.  The autho, Roger
 DC> Zelazny (who just died), has such a way with words that you never know
 DC> what will happen next and there is never a dull moment.
 TS> You're just now discovering that?  Wait'll you read Vol.2,
 TS> and the next set that involve Merlin.

 TS> Trumps Of Doom.
 TS> Blood Of Amber
 TS> Sign Of Chaos
 TS> Knight of Shadows

And Prince of Chaos.
bye
    PWC
--- GEcho 1.00
 * Origin: PWC entry (2:484/10.6)

Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 401 of 423
 From : Aaron Turon                         1:137/2         .åò 21 .åê 95 06:08
 To   : Everyone
 Subj : Hi!
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Hello! I'm a total TREKIE! Does anyone else like it? Please write back!


--- Opus-CBCS 1.73a
 * Origin: Chipper Clipper * Scott me up beamy! * 941-745-56 (1:137/2.0)

Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 402 of 423
 From : Brion Lienhart                      1:213/700.2     .åò 21 .åê 95 16:03
 To   : Chris Bach
 Subj : X-files
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Speaking of which, did you see Weird Science last weekend? There were two
government agents, Scolder(Male) and Molly(Female) checking around on some
reports of strange activity. I nearly wet 'em, I was laughing so hard.



--- QM v1.31
 * Origin: Ministry of Peace - Carson City, NV (1:213/700.2)

Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 403 of 423
 From : The Raven                           1:363/309       .åò 21 .åê 95 05:27
 To   : James Woodcock
 Subj : nuclear
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 JW> look under 'Chernobyl' or 'Three Mile Island'

     Watch your language.  And for your information, Three Mile Island had
less contamination that what you'd recieve from spending an hour inside the
US Capital building.

     Jack Butler



... "A belief is not true because it is useful." -- H.F. Amiel
--- Blue Wave/RA v2.20 [NR]
 * Origin: Forethought BBS -=- Orlando, FL -=- 407-679-6561 (1:363/309)

Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 404 of 423
 From : The Raven                           1:363/309       .åò 21 .åê 95 05:27
 To   : Scott Royall
 Subj : nuclear
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 SR> Possibly, but then you then have one of two problems.  You either have
 SR> massive antennas gathering the tiny amounts of microwave energy or
 SR> you're beaming down large amounts of it (and missing one of the ground
 SR> arrays would be the stuff of a SF horror movie!).

     I borrowed this from Larry Niven, but it works.
     Put collections of arrays in a wide, bare expanse, like any desert.
Surround the entire thing with big, tall fence at a range of 6 or 7 miles
outside the exposure zone, and every fifty feet or so put signs on it that
read "If you cross this fence you will die".
     Sure, a few fools will go anyway.  They die, and the collective IQ of
the human species increases.  Think of it as evolution in action.

     In any case, you are missing something.  You fix it so you can turn the
orbital transmitter off when you need to.  Or better yet, fix it with
multiple redundant systems which automatically turn the damned thing off if
an antenna loses alignment, on top of a ground controlled off switch.

     Jack Butler



... "Give me the freedom to know, utter, and argue freely." -- Milton
--- Blue Wave/RA v2.20 [NR]
 * Origin: Forethought BBS -=- Orlando, FL -=- 407-679-6561 (1:363/309)

Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 405 of 423
 From : The Raven                           1:363/309       .åò 21 .åê 95 05:27
 To   : Lori Brown
 Subj : Seaquest 2032
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 LB> We didn't see you at the SeaQuest auction. We went...didn't buy
 LB> anything. The  high item was the stinger that went for $5400. Other
 LB> things went for $50 and  up. Out of our range! But it was interesting.

     The Grand High Taskmasters at Charles Schwab decided that I really
didn't need that day off after all.  I wanted to go, but...


 LB> Also: Do you have a good contact address for the Highlander
 LB> cast/production  company? I want to contact them for TachyCon.

     Oooooh.  That would be a good idea.  I'll look around and see if I have
some of the publicist/agent numbers.  Is this for 96?  Or a later year?


 LB> We'll have to get together to play Magic again sometime (without the
 LB> fire! :)

     Hey, at least no one can accuse you and Dan of throwing boring house
parties!  BTW, I wanted to talk to Dan about having a couple of "private
design" magic card made up.  I'd cover costs, of couse, but you folks are the
only guys I know personally who have the needed equipment.

     Jack Butler




... "Can someone explain why the crew of the Paegan is called `The Zoo'?"
...          -- Admiral Rhadavan McLellan, Star Fleet Operations
...             from "Drifters", by Jack Butler
--- Blue Wave/RA v2.20 [NR]
 * Origin: Forethought BBS -=- Orlando, FL -=- 407-679-6561 (1:363/309)

Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 406 of 423
 From : Lyndon Soerensen                    1:140/96        .pä 20 .åê 95 05:09
 To   : Darre LuAllen
 Subj : Favorites
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 -=> Quoting Darre LuAllen to Lyndon Soerensen <=-

 DL> Okay, when you're not slogging through an Anthony novel, what do you
 DL> prefer to read?  Personally, I'll try to read about anything.  In

 Hmmm.  Rather a tough question.  I s'pose I could best answer this by saying
 that I prefer to read anything I haven't read b4.  If I look at my library
 of books on the opposite side of my room, I see Heinlein, Vonnegut, Bradbury,
 Herbert, Delaney, King, Robinson (Spider), Ellison and a whole bunch more
 that I won't bore you with.

 DL> past,  I have read Ray Bradbury, Kurt Vonnegut, RAH, Mercades Lackey,

                                                          ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

I've only read some of Lackey, but I was impressed with what I read.  BTW,
it's _Mercedes_.

 DL> A.C. Clarke  R.A. Salvatory (I think that's right), Randell Garrett,

                       ^^^^^^^^^
Salvatore

 DL> I   cannot remember.  I'm also a fan of Poe and Lovecraft.

                                             ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

So am I.  _Ia_, _Ia_, _Cthulhu_ _ftagn_!   :)


 DL>
 DL> I never really developed a fav author as such.  For me, if a story
 DL> has some  fresh insights, a good pace or interesting characters I'll
 DL> stick with it.  As I stated before, Anthony was just too involved for
 DL> me.  But that was just  one book that I tried.  I suppose that if I
 DL> try another, then I might fare  better.  The book I tried was the
 DL> first in the Adept series (assuming I'm  not confusing my authors).

The adept series was ok.  The only series of his that I haven't read was
TAROT.  Did you know he also wrote some horror novels?


... MOLE: A small, burrowing mammal, comprised of 6.023e23 molecules...
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
 * Origin: The Holistic BBS (1:140/96)

Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 407 of 423
 From : Frank Glover                        1:2613/477      .åò 21 .åê 95 20:57
 To   : Michael Harper
 Subj : Re: SeaQuest
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

MH>  For my money, the best depiction in sf of undersea operations is
MH>  still
MH>  _The Abyss_.

   Indeed, they even *invented* one along the way. The faceplate design allowed
the camera to see actors faces without distortion. Divers liked being able to
readily recognize the faces and expresions (espically if they may be in
distress!) of nearby divers, too. Most existing designs let you see out okay,
but distort your face to someone looking in....

   Frank


--- QuickBBS 2.80 GoldBase (Zeta-1)
 * Origin: The Matrix Data Bank BBS, Rochester, Ny (1:2613/477)

Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 408 of 423
 From : Frank Glover                        1:2613/477      .åò 21 .åê 95 21:06
 To   : Mark Jones
 Subj : Re: Gibson
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

MJ>   LE> probably won't be used for artifical surrogate sex stimsim
MJ>   LE> productions. Scientists will have to provide beneficial uses for
MJ>  such
MJ>   LE> advances and acceptable uses to differing generational groups
MJ>  and
MJ>   LE> difering cultures.
MJ>
MJ>     Wanna bet?  If it's *possible* to do pornographic sim/stim,
MJ>  somebody *will* do it.  And he'll end up with more money than God.
MJ>  Especially if AIDS continues to be a problem.  How much safer can sex
MJ>  get, after all?

   Agreed. After all, how much money is made off adult video and computer games?
(And then there's Sen. Exxon screaming about Internet porn. Wasn't developed for
that, but it's seeing it's share of adult uses, too.)

MJ>     If they ever actually manage to create a reliable and safe
MJ>  brain/machine interface (which I think will be much harder than many
MJ>  people assume), lots of different individuals and groups will be
MJ>  working on lots of different uses for it.

   Durk Pearson and Sandy Shaw,in one of their Life Extension books suggested
that such a thing might well be developed for entertainment puropses first, then
trickle down to medical applications. (Note they were advisors for the movie
`Brainstorm,'...and you may remember that a character there couldn't resist
using the device to tape his memory/sensations of sex acts, too. As you say, if
it can be done at all, someone will surely find a sexually oriented
application...)

   Frank


--- QuickBBS 2.80 GoldBase (Zeta-1)
 * Origin: The Matrix Data Bank BBS, Rochester, Ny (1:2613/477)

Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 409 of 423
 From : Todd Sullivan                       1:202/720.3     .åò 21 .åê 95 11:21
 To   : ROBERT LIDGREN
 Subj : X-FILES CHRISTMAS
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Whoa, Cool!  ROBERT LIDGREN and ALL are inna cat fight about "X-FILES
CHRISTMAS"!

 RL> DID ANYONE ELSE SEE THE X-FILES CHRISTMAS STORY?

 RL> I found Mulder to be a little too unsympathetic to Scully's inquiries
 RL> abouyt miracles etc.  She ALWAYS seems to go along and at least listen
 RL> to his view-point.  Wasn't he a bit too much of a doubting Thomas
 RL> considering all the weird and wonderful cases they have exp[erienced
 RL> together?

Actually, it makes him more believable; his blind spots are more telling, as
they are with everyone you'll ever meet.

Todd Sullivan

... "Snap out of it, man!  Here comes Captain Stimpy!"

-*- ASTG 1.9

--- Spot 1.3a Unregistered
 * Origin: Todd's Spot in the Continuum (1:202/720.3)

Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 410 of 423
 From : Todd Sullivan                       1:202/720.3     .ÿò 22 .åê 95 15:58
 To   : Bianca Wesslak
 Subj : nuclear BS
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Whoa, Cool!  Bianca Wesslak and me are inna cat fight about "nuclear BS"!

 BW> From a woman with an overactive imagination.

That's true, indeed. :^)


 BW> Maybe the core never hit air but the three mile Island explosian is a
 BW> good

TMI had no explosion.  Nuclear fuel is processed differently than weapons loads,
and uses different isotopes.  No way it can happen

 BW> example of how dangerous nuclear energy is.  Three mile Island is still
 BW> being cleaned out by robots due to the dangerous radiation.  Lead is
 BW> the only
 BW> shield that I know of that can withstand radiation, that and
 BW> cockroaches.
 BW> As for the success of the navy subs, I won't say anything on them due
 BW> to no knowledge, but I'd hate to see one get blown up.

The only way that can happen is with weapons fire.

You've been reading too many "Bad science fiction" books, going by what you've
said.  Or people you've talked to who are woefully ignorant.  Try finding books
by Oppenheimer and others that worked on the Manhattan Project.  That'll be a
good start.

Todd Sullivan

... I keep missing Rush Limbaugh.  But with this new laser sight...

-*- ASTG 1.9

--- Spot 1.3a Unregistered
 * Origin: Todd's Spot in the Continuum (1:202/720.3)

Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 411 of 423
 From : Brian Minsker                       1:325/118       .åò 21 .åê 95 23:52
 To   : Darre Luallen
 Subj : Brisco Country
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 DL> Well, how about that.  First, I learn that TNT has bought the
 DL> rights to show reruns of Babylon 5, starting in a few years.
 DL> Now, I find out that they will be rerunning _The Adventures of
 DL> Brisco Country Jr._ in January.
 DL>
 DL> Well, I might start liking Ted Turner yet.  :->

Actually, that's Time-Warner you're beginning to like. :)


... The mark of a true MBA: often wrong, but seldom in doubt.
___ via Silver Xpress V3.02

--- Maximus/2 3.00
 * Origin: The Ozone Layer, Williston, VT. (802) 862-5058 (1:325/118)

Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 412 of 423
 From : Lawrence E Dunlap                   1:106/2927      .ÿò 22 .åê 95 19:18
 To   : Mark Jones
 Subj : Gibson
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

MJ>   If they ever actually manage to create a reliable and safe
MJ> brain/machine interface (which I think will be much harder than many
MJ> people assume), lots of different individuals and groups will be
MJ> working on lots of different uses for it.
MJ>   My personal favorite:  a high-tech medical emergency kit, complete
MJ> with computer and headset.  When you need the kit, you slip on the
MJ> headset and turn on the power.  Presto!  You know how to *use* all
MJ> that keen equipment now!

However, experiential testing would be required to prove that some special
dexterity or visual acuity isn't really necessary to do surgery on someone who
might have some unusual medical condition to deal with. I knew a guy who was
nearly 400 pounds in junior high. He was stabbed about 200 times. Most of the
probloem in operating on him was determining how much fatty tissue there
actually was between the surgeon and the serious parts of the wound.

Took 14 hours to finish that emergency surgery. He was about 200 pounds lighter.
In an emergency, would *you* have the endurance for a field medical stimkit's
directions to remove several hundred pounds of adipose tissue? Would *both* you
anf the patient survive?

Just curious about your feedback.

Lawrence E Dunlap
(1:106/2927)
* SPITFIRE v3.5
--- Alexi/Mail 2.02b (#10000)
 * Origin: Computer Living F'n BBS-Houston, TX 713-444-2927 (1:106/2927)

Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 413 of 423
 From : Michael Harper                      1:123/10        .ÿò 22 .åê 95 13:44
 To   : Frank Glover
 Subj : Re: Kubrick
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 -=> While shaving a goat, Frank Glover told Michael Harper all about Kubrick...

 FG> I was rather disappointed that the sets and all were destroyed
 FG> (perhaps keeping the blueprints around would've been wise, though),
 FG> but I can see his point. The effects and saucer design from Forbidden
 FG> Planet were recycled through a couple of Twilight Zone episodes
 FG> (though they at least did them justice), and even a TV Batman
 FG> episode....

Yeah, and Robby ended up in at least one more movie, made an appearance
on LIS, and finally got stuck in the lobby of the MGM Grand in Vegas,
where his housing stands to this day...

I'm wondering if the remake of FP will use Robby II or another 'bot. I'd
like to see him in the new version...

I remember reading a book on the making of 2010 where Rich Edlund says
that their best tool for recreating the Discovery was a laserdisc print
of 2001. That's what I call a tribute to one's work...

... "Whatever happened to American bravery?" --Capt. Tanya Kirbuk
--- RA/FD/FMail
 * Origin: The Electric Fox - Memphis,TN, U.S.A.  1-901-327-1008 (1:123/10)

Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 414 of 423
 From : Michael Harper                      1:123/10        .ÿò 22 .åê 95 13:44
 To   : Chris Cobb
 Subj : Re: Akira
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 -=> Over coffee and beignets, Chris Cobb told All all about Akira...

 CC> Are there any Akira fans out there? Just wondering where I could
 CC> pick up some merchandise through mail order or something.

Dial 1-800-383-0727. That's Intergalactic Trading in Longwood, FL.
They'll have almost anything you want...



... "No being can be truly sentient without laughter."  Delenn
--- RA/FD/FMail
 * Origin: The Electric Fox - Memphis,TN, U.S.A.  1-901-327-1008 (1:123/10)

Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 415 of 423
 From : Michael Harper                      1:123/10        .ÿò 22 .åê 95 13:44
 To   : Nancy Crockett
 Subj : Highlander
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 -=> Over coffee and beignets, Nancy Crockett told Tommy Kellerman all about
 -=> Highlander...

 NC> Great quote! Did you like Clancy Brown in Earth 2? Quite different
 NC> from the Kurgan in Highlander, huh?

Actually, one of my favorite roles for Clancy was that of Rawhide,
Buckaroo Banzai's right-hand man, in _Buckaroo Banzai_... I watched E2
mostly for him, on those odd occasions when I watched it at all.



... "Bud, did you know your hand is blue?" --Lew Finler, "The Abyss"
--- RA/FD/FMail
 * Origin: The Electric Fox - Memphis,TN, U.S.A.  1-901-327-1008 (1:123/10)

Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 416 of 423
 From : Michael Harper                      1:123/10        .åò 21 .åê 95 08:11
 To   : Brion Lienhart
 Subj : Re: KUBRICK COMMENTS
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 -=> While shaving a goat, Brion Lienhart told The Raven all about KUBRICK
 -=> COMMENTS...

 -TR>     Someone said "Kubrick's a great director, but as a person he
 -TR>sucks" and Dkimmel had an apoplectic fit.

 BL> No, someone said that "because Kubrick is a jerk, I hate his films",
 BL> and Dkimmel had a fit.

Actually, I think it was my contention that Kubrick had made some
mediocre movies that really set him off...

Really, Jack's got it right. Kubrick is a great director, when he hits
the mark. He hits the mark a lot. It's my personal contention that he's
a despicable excuse for a human being. This doesn't make him any less
talented as a director. Anyone who can pull together the talent that he
did for 2001 has earned my respect for his skills.

I just prefer my movies to have a bit more of a human touch. This is why
I like Pete Hyams' 2010 more than 2001. The characters are more
accessible. But without Kubrick and 2001, there wouldn't have been a
2010.

Can we end this mahooha now?


... "Anatomically impossible, Mr. Garibaldi, but you're welcome to try."
--- RA/FD/FMail
 * Origin: The Electric Fox - Memphis,TN, U.S.A.  1-901-327-1008 (1:123/10)

Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 417 of 423
 From : Michael Harper                      1:123/10        .åò 21 .åê 95 08:11
 To   : Darre LuAllen
 Subj : Quark
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 -=> While shaving a goat, Darre LuAllen told Otto Cordray all about SF
 -=> Comedy...

 DL> I used to love that show, but no one would acknowledge its existence,
 DL> until now.  I just thought that I had been hallucinating.  Now I
 DL> guess it's just a case of "Disco Deprogramming."  Didn't the show
 DL> have a set of twins?  I was five years younger than you when I saw
 DL> this show,  so my memory is not very trustworthy.

Yep. Trish and Cybil Barnstable, former Doublemint Gum Twins. A bit too
slim for my liking, but still damn cute. God knows what happened to them
after the series ended...

Tim Thomerson and Richard Bejamin have both gone on to other, if not
necessarily better, things...



... Catch the Blue Wave!
--- RA/FD/FMail
 * Origin: The Electric Fox - Memphis,TN, U.S.A.  1-901-327-1008 (1:123/10)

Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 418 of 423
 From : Kay Shapero                         1:102/524       .ÿò 22 .åê 95 09:39
 To   : All on off topic subject
 Subj : nuclear BS
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Warning folks - Net 102 is once again got its feed back up for SFFAN, and the
moderator is back.  I'd suggest you drop the off topic nuclear argument
quick.... :->

--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 419 of 423
 From : Nicolai Shapero                     1:102/524       .ÿò 22 .åê 95 20:28
 To   : Bianca Wesslak
 Subj : Re: nuclear
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Dec 20 22:19>, Bianca Wesslak (1:132/152) wrote to David Durgee:

 BW> Your looking at the present and not the future.  Radiation half
 BW>life takes
 BW> centuries and maybe eons to become stable.

I would strongly suggest that you study a bit of physics.  Do you even have the
vaguest idea of what the half-life of a radioactive isotope IS?  The really
nasty radioactive isotopes have short half-lives.  The isotopes with extremely
long half-lives are not comparitively speaking dangerous.  Funny about that...

 BW>Uranium hurts and
 BW>kills more
 BW> people over time than does black lung.

Approximately 10,000 people die each year due to our current use of fossil fuels
for power and for "getting around" in our nice little IC engine vehicles.
Source of this number?  An NSF study some ten years ago and more that my older
brother worked on.  The study did not include the lives lost for mining or
transporting fossil fuels, by the by.  And take a look at how long it takes for
a restricted ecosystem to recover from an oil spill, by the by...

 BW>... You can twist perceptions, reality won't budge.

Yes.  And knowing the hard realities of physics helps you to make an informed
decision.

-- Nicolai Shapero, the Mad Russian Sysop of StormGate Aerie


--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 420 of 423
 From : Nicolai Shapero                     1:102/524       .ÿò 22 .åê 95 20:34
 To   : All
 Subj : Msg 0 of 3: Rules
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
What follows is an abbreviated version of the rules for SFFAN:

Discussions of SF Fandom, Trek, Media, Who, Anime, and any literary
SF topic are "in bounds".  Related technical discussions are also
allowed, but if they go too far afield, ye moderator reserves the
right to shut down the topic at any time without further warning.
Fantasy, by the by, is on topic.  Keep the comments clean and above
the belt -- personal attacks are unacceptable (remember though, that
to attack an idea is NOT the same as attacking the holder of that
idea).

Commercial messages (anything that solicits money) are OFF TOPIC.

The moderator reserves the right to add new rules as the situation
demands.

Violators of rules may be warned in netmail, will be warned in the
echo, and are subject to suspension of SFFAN echomail priviledges
if they refuse to comply with the echo rules.  Sysops who refuse to
police their users (or themselves) on this echo are subject to
having their feeds cut without warning -- yes, I do hold sysops to
a higher standard.  A list of users and sysops on probation and
suspension is included in the detailed rules, which are posted
at roughly one month intervals.

The word of the moderator is the word of god.  Once the edict is
issued, please take any further comments and/or discussions to netmail.
This is not a democracy.  In the event of my disappearance of early
demise, my wife Kay Shapero will take my place.  If both of us
disappear without having time to appoint an heir to the echo, you
will likely have to fight it out with the FidoNet bureaucracy...

-- Nicolai Shapero, Moderator of SFFAN



--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 421 of 423
 From : Nicolai Shapero                     1:102/524       .ÿò 22 .åê 95 20:34
 To   : All
 Subj : Msg 1 of 3: Rules
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
                  Rules for SFFAN (Message 1 of 3)

This humble (?) individual, also  known as the moderator of the SFFAN
echo, intends that  this echo be  used for discussions of any subject
related to SF fandom. So: Trek, Who, Anime are all acceptable topics.
Of course, any literary sf topic is  obviously "in bounds".   Related
technical discussions  are also allowable, but try not to go off into
"my computer is better than your computer" arguments.  And, oh yes, I
also allow discussions of role playing games (fantasy and otherwise).
After all, RPGers are frequently sffen too!  (Just try to keep things
VAGUELY in the sf/fantasy area in your discussions, please?)  FANTASY
IS ON  TOPIC.  FANTASY IS ON TOPIC.  FANTASY IS ON TOPIC.  And what I
tell you three times is true...

Once ye olde moderator  declares a thread "off topic" PLEASE DROP THE
SUBJECT.  Take any further comments to NETMAIL.  Repeated infractions
of this rule can result in nastygrams from the Moderator...

Personal attacks are to  be kept off  the echo; but  remember that to
attack the idea is NOT the same thing as attacking the holder of that
idea. Keep things "nice" -- no obscene language, no hitting below the
belt.

I'd like people to be  a bit more careful with  the quoting functions
of their editors.  Please do NOT quote entire messages (including the
origin lines).   Quote only what is necessary.   Show a little bit of
kindness  for the sysops who have to pay to transports these messages
all over the world.

Commercial messages (anything that solicits money) are OFF TOPIC.  If
you're going to  make money on the deal, TAKE IT TO NETMAIL.  This is
not a "for sale" echo, nor is it an "investor's hotline" echo.

                     (Continued in next message)


--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 422 of 423
 From : Nicolai Shapero                     1:102/524       .ÿò 22 .åê 95 20:34
 To   : All
 Subj : Msg 2 of 3: Rules
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
                  Rules for SFFAN (Message 2 of 3)

No one  by the  name of  Arthur Werner,  Sal Devita, or  any variants
thereof is permitted  on this echo.  We do NOT need the Werner-beast,
in ANY of his incarnations, on this echo.  In keeping with the spirit
of this rule, Bob Charles  is also banned from this echo -- for life.
It is requested that no sysop  allow access to or  provide a feed for
SFFAN to this individual.

Hanah Deborah is also banned from this echo for an indefinite period,
as is Graeme Smith.

If message traffic is being gated into this conference from any other
network, then each  message must show in the origin line, the FidoNet
address of the system that is doing the gating so that netmail may be
properly directed to users posting from the other network. The gating
station MUST BE LISTED IN THE FIDONET NODELIST AS AN APPROVED GATEWAY
STATION!

The first time that anyone breaks one of these or other FidoNet rules
I will try and notify them via netmail. Depending upon the infraction,
I may also post a  message in the echo. Repeated infractions may result
in the offender being banned from the echo, either for a limited time or
forever.  I do not need variants on the Werner-beast on this echo!

Sysops are held fully accountable for the actions of all users on their
BBSs.  Failure by a sysop to properly discipline a user, or failure of
a sysop to suspend access of a user on request of the Moderator may
result in loss of access to this echo.  Sysops who violate the rules of
this conference, in spirit or letter, are subject to having their feeds
cut without further warning.  I am fully prepared to go "up the line" on
this one, folks, so DO NOT PUSH YOUR LUCK.  Any sysop who starts playing
"rules lawyer" (and I think you all understand what I'm talking about)
is subject to having his feed cut without further warning.  Feed cuts
will be FOR A MINIMUM OF SIX MONTHS, WITH A MANDATORY ONE YEAR
PROBATIONARY PERIOD FOLLOWING RESTORATION OF ACCESS.  Any violation of
the rules in spirit or letter during the probationary period makes the
offending sysop subject to permanent loss of feed.

                     (Continued in next message)



--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [11] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 423 of 423
 From : Nicolai Shapero                     1:102/524       .ÿò 22 .åê 95 20:34
 To   : All
 Subj : Msg 3 of 3: Rules
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
                  Rules for SFFAN (Message 3 of 3)

In the event that I become unable to continue as moderator for SFFAN,
Kay Shapero will serve in  my stead unless  and until she  decides to
step down.  This is not a democracy.   No one gets to vote on who the
moderator will be.

High order ASCII characters (IBM graphics characters) are not allowed
in messages on this echo. They cause great grief for a lot of systems
and their use is to be avoided.

Special characters or  strings as in those  used for Postscript, TeX,
and similar page description languages are not to be used in SFFAN. I
would much prefer to see standard BBS practices followed (fake under-
score or all caps for emphasis).

These rules are  not to be taken as all inclusive.  The moderator re-
serves the right to add rules any time he deems it necessary to main-
tain the character of the echo.

For those readers  out there who think that SF fandom is just bit too
strange for words, just zip over to one of the OTHER conferences;  it
will only get weirder here.

The following people are on probation for rules violations or other
problems on the echo:

               Name                   End of Probation
            =============             =================
        Dan Gannon (1:105/292)        15 January   1996

The following individuals have received an "invitation to the world":
They are banned from this echo until the date listed after their
names.  These are "temporary" suspensions of SFFAN echomail priviledges,
but they are total (no read or write access permitted to SFFAN -- all
sysops carrying this echo are asked to comply)

               Name                   End of Suspension
            =============             =================
          Michael Weir (1:147/61)       5 May     1996
         John Giannini (1:119/50)      23 March   1996

The following is a list of STATIONS that for which the feed of SFFAN
has been ordered cut.  Such cuts are for a minimum 6 month period,
and have additional probationary periods following restoration
of service:

               Name                End of Suspension
            =============          =================

-- Nicolai Shapero, the slightly bemused sysop of StormGate Aerie
                    Moderator of the SFFAN echo.


--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [8] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 1 of 187
 From : Harold Groot                        1:202/762       .óá 23 .åê 95 10:00
 To   : Paul Browning
 Subj : Re: SF Comedy
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 PB> Love that Quark!!!  Still can't track it down tho...  Want all the
 PB> episodes to the series...  That and Man From Atlantis...

Last time I saw Quark, it was playing on the Comedy Channel, not the
Sci-Fi Channel.  Back-to-back with Captain Nice.  I taped some of them.

... Heaven doesn't want me and Hell's afraid I'll take over!

___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20 [NR]

--- GEcho 1.00
 * Origin: The Music Shop BBS 619-423-4970 (1:202/762)

Ä [8] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 2 of 187
 From : Phill Ash                           1:275/160       .óá 23 .åê 95 10:06
 To   : Darre Luallen
 Subj : Brisco Country
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE 1.11+

 DL> Well, how about that.  First, I learn that TNT has bought the rights
 DL> to show reruns of Babylon 5, starting in a few years.  Now, I find
 DL> out that they will be rerunning _The Adventures of Brisco Country Jr._
 DL> in January.
 DL> Well, I might start liking Ted Turner yet.  :->

        Good deal....

        Now, if we could keep them from clipping it to hell just to
        insert 2 extra commercials... =)


Your pal:  PhlAsh
---
 þ The Korova Milkbar þ Oh those deep but true, healed country songs
~~~ ReneWave v1.01 [NR]
--- Smile :)
 * Origin: * The Beast's Lair * (804)498-3070 * Va Beach VA * (1:275/160)

Ä [8] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 3 of 187
 From : Mark Jones                          1:105/302.47    .pä 20 .åê 95 17:37
 To   : ROBERT LIDGREN
 Subj : X-FILES CHRISTMAS
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On (19 Dec 95) ROBERT LIDGREN wrote to ALL...

 RL> DID ANYONE ELSE SEE THE X-FILES CHRISTMAS STORY?

I did.

 RL> I found Mulder to be a little too unsympathetic to Scully's inquiries
 RL> abouyt miracles etc.  She ALWAYS seems to go along and at least listen
 RL> to his view-point.  Wasn't he a bit too much of a doubting Thomas
 RL> considering all the weird and wonderful cases they have exp[erienced
 RL> together?

Well, it wasn't one of their best episodes, but I had no problems with
it.

I look at it as an example of blind spots each character possesses.

Mulder, who is more than willing to reach for explanations on most
topics (Vampires, Scully!  Mole People!  Aliens!) turns out to be
rather skeptical about religion--at least, about mainstream Christian
religion and mythology.

Scully, on the other hand, who always wants definite proof (and even
then concludes that, yes, it may have been a blood-sucking fiend from
hell--but there has to be a scientific explanation for blood-sucking
fiends from hell...) has a strong streak of religious faith.

What can I say?  Early indoctrination is hard to escape.  The
young Mulder saw his sister kidnapped by aliens.  Of course he
believes in them.  And Scully was apparently raised Catholic, and some
of it took.


--- PPoint 1.78
 * Origin: Folcroft Sanitarium (hsmith@cure.com) (1:105/302.47)

Ä [8] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 4 of 187
 From : Mark Jones                          1:105/302.47    .åò 21 .åê 95 23:46
 To   : Otto Cordray
 Subj : Gibson
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On (20 Dec 95) Otto Cordray wrote to Mark Jones...

 MJ> Wanna bet? If it's *possible* to do pornographic sim/stim,
 MJ> somebody *will* do it. And he'll end up with more money than God.
 MJ> Especially if AIDS continues to be a problem. How much safer can
 MJ> sex get, after all?
 OC>
 OC> Safe for whom? Dennis Miller once posed this thought:

   Safe for the unemployed steelworker and "Cindy" or "Claudia", of
course.  No fear of STDs.  No herpes, no syphilis, no AIDS, no
nothing.  And no worries about pregnancy, either.

 OC> When an unemployed steelworker can sit at home and pay $29.95 to
 OC> have "sex" with Cindy Crawford or Claudia Schiffer, crack is going to
 OC> seem like bubble gum by comparison.

   I would only worry about unemployed steelworkers robbing and
killing people to get their virtual-sex fix if the virtual sex is made
illegal.  Because, just like drugs and prostitution, it will never go
away.  It'll just go underground and become very expensive.

   [As a completely irrelevant and sexist comment in passing:  Cindy
or Claudia would okay, I guess.  But for my tastes, Joan Chen or
Barbara Carrera are the ones to watch for.]


--- PPoint 1.78
 * Origin: Folcroft Sanitarium (hsmith@cure.com) (1:105/302.47)

Ä [8] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 5 of 187
 From : Mark Jones                          1:105/302.47    .ÿò 22 .åê 95 12:01
 To   : Bianca Wesslak
 Subj : nuclear BS
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On (20 Dec 95) Bianca Wesslak wrote to Todd Sullivan...

 BW> Maybe the core never hit air but the three mile Island explosian
 BW> is a good example of how dangerous nuclear energy is. Three mile
 BW> Island is still being cleaned out by robots due to the dangerous
 BW> radiation. Lead is the only shield that I know of that can
 BW> withstand radiation, that and cockroaches. As for the success of
 BW> the navy subs, I won't say anything on them due to no knowledge,
 BW> but I'd hate to see one get blown up.

   The core at TMI *never* was in danger of "hitting air".  The safety
systems worked as intended despite more human error than had been
planned for.  The TMI reactor was designed so that if the cooling
system malfunctioned, the reaction in the core STOPPED--because the
water used for cooling also facilitated the reaction.
   This is exactly the opposite of the Chernobyl design, where the
failure of the cooling system caused the core to heat up.  (Such a
design was considered here at one time--and rejected for just that
reason.)
   Bottom line:  TMI never killed or harmed anyone.  As for it being
cleaned out by robots due to the dangerous radiation:
   1.  Better robots than "bio-robots" (i.e., conscripted humans) that
the Soviets used at Chernobyl.
   2.  Do you have proof of this claim?
   3.  STILL NOBODY DEAD.  At least we *have* robots.  How many coal
miners and oil drillers have died in the name of fossil fuels?

   And I expect that the Navy would hate have one of their nuclear
subs blow up, too.  But for other reasons.


--- PPoint 1.78
 * Origin: Folcroft Sanitarium (hsmith@cure.com) (1:105/302.47)

Ä [8] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 6 of 187
 From : Mark Jones                          1:105/302.47    .ÿò 22 .åê 95 12:06
 To   : Bianca Wesslak
 Subj : nuclear
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On (20 Dec 95) Bianca Wesslak wrote to David Durgee...

 BW> Your looking at the present and not the future. Radiation half
 BW> life takes centuries and maybe eons to become stable. Uranium
 BW> hurts and kills more people over time than does black lung.
 BW> Point, Nagasaki and hiroshima, those that were not killed by the
 BW> blast died from cancer, exposure and other sickness, also people
 BW> in the navy who were swimming in the ocean during the attack that
 BW> were in our navy. Evidence the book hiroshima.

A radioactive substance can be highly radioactive OR it can have an
extremely long half-life.  Not both.  (If such a substance did exist,
it would be the ideal fuel source--lots of energy output and usable
for centuries.  If such a thing existed, we wouldn't have a
radioactive waste problem--it would still be inside the reactor,
generating power!)

Total up the number of people ever killed by black lung disease (and,
to be fair, by mining accidents, cave-ins, drowning, gas explosions in
the mines, etc etc) vs the number of people killed by uranium
contamination.  Betcha I know which number is higher--even if you
limit the black lung deaths to the same number of years we've been
fooling with uranium....

Hiroshima and Nagasaki were not nuclear power accidents.  They were
destroyed by WEAPONS.  Ditto for Navy swimmers on our side at the
time.  Friendly fire casualties.  It happens.  Would you be any
happier with the abysmal casualties in those two cities if they'd been
incinerated by saturation bombing with incendiaries (like Dresden)?

 BW>  No amound of defence will ever be enough!

That you for your input.  We'll give your opinion all the
consideration it deserves.


--- PPoint 1.78
 * Origin: Folcroft Sanitarium (hsmith@cure.com) (1:105/302.47)

Ä [8] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 7 of 187
 From : Mark Jones                          1:105/302.47    .ÿò 22 .åê 95 12:14
 To   : The Raven
 Subj : nuclear
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On (21 Dec 95) The Raven wrote to Scott Royall...

 TR>      I borrowed this from Larry Niven, but it works.
 TR> Put collections of arrays in a wide, bare expanse, like any
 TR> desert. Surround the entire thing with big, tall fence at a range
 TR> of 6 or 7 miles outside the exposure zone, and every fifty feet
 TR> or so put signs on it that read "If you cross this fence you will
 TR> die".
 TR>      Sure, a few fools will go anyway.  They die, and the collective
 TR> IQ of the human species increases. Think of it as evolution in
 TR> action.

   Are you sure it was Niven?  I could have sworn it was Heinlein who
suggested this.  (He also suggested a solution for the "insoluble"
problem of nuclear waste.  Mix it in concrete and form blocks from it.
 Then stack the blocks in an inhospitable desert location...with a
huge fence around it, with signs saying "If you cross this fence, you
will die!" in a variety of languages.
   After all, just because *we* don't know of any good uses for
nuclear waste, that doesn't mean there isn't one.  And one day they
may find one.  (After all, once upon a time, those pools of oil
bubbling up out of the ground were considered a real nuisance....)


--- PPoint 1.78
 * Origin: Folcroft Sanitarium (hsmith@cure.com) (1:105/302.47)

Ä [8] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 8 of 187
 From : Frank Glover                        1:2613/477      .óá 23 .åê 95 00:22
 To   : Otto Cordray
 Subj : Re: Gibson
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

OC>   MJ>    Wanna bet?  If it's *possible* to do pornographic sim/stim,
OC>   MJ> somebody *will* do it.  And he'll end up with more money than
OC>  God.
OC>   MJ> Especially if AIDS continues to be a problem.  How much safer
OC>  can sex
OC>   MJ> get, after all?
OC>
OC>  Safe for whom? Dennis Miller once posed this thought:
OC>
OC>  When an unemployed steelworker can sit at home and pay $29.95 to
OC>  have "sex" with Cindy Crawford or Claudia Schiffer, crack is going to
OC>  seem like bubble gum by comparison.

   Perhaps. But it's not as if there are no such problems today. TV `Couch
Potatoes,' video game addicts...even some people who can't tear themselves away
from their computers and BBS/nets.

   Larry Niven has addressed the matter of direct stimulation of brain pleasure
centers for the masses (wireheading) in his stories for ages.

   I doubt that high-fidelity virtual sex will have more of an impact than
current electronic pastimes, but there's the question of what it will do to
one's *literal* reality interactions with others.....

   Frank


--- QuickBBS 2.80 GoldBase (Zeta-1)
 * Origin: The Matrix Data Bank BBS, Rochester, Ny (1:2613/477)

Ä [8] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 9 of 187
 From : Frank Glover                        1:2613/477      .óá 23 .åê 95 00:26
 To   : Bianca Wesslak
 Subj : Re: nuclear BS
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

BW>  being cleaned out by robots due to the dangerous radiation.  Lead is
BW>  the only
BW>  shield that I know of that can withstand radiation, that and

   Lead has the advantage of being nice and dense (gold would be about as good),
but enough of *any* material will do. Even vacuum, if you're simply far enough
away.

   Frank


--- QuickBBS 2.80 GoldBase (Zeta-1)
 * Origin: The Matrix Data Bank BBS, Rochester, Ny (1:2613/477)

Ä [8] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 10 of 187
 From : Paul Goverts                        1:2613/135      .óá 23 .åê 95 17:50
 To   : Michael Harper
 Subj : Kubrick
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

-=> Quoting Michael Harper to Frank Glover <=-

 MH> Yeah, and Robby ended up in at least one more movie, made an
 MH> appearance on LIS, and finally got stuck in the lobby of the MGM Grand
 MH> in Vegas, where his housing stands to this day...

Didn't he also appear in Gremlins?

Paul

... What do you mean? You actually read this tagline?!?
___ Blue Wave/DOS v2.21

--- QScan/PCB v1.18b / 01-0527
 * Origin: Wise BBS - Irondequoit, NY (1:2613/135)

Ä [8] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 11 of 187
 From : Otto Cordray                        1:106/1393      .cê 24 .åê 95 10:02
 To   : Mark Jones
 Subj : Gibson
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 MJ>    I would only worry about unemployed steelworkers robbing and
 MJ> killing people to get their virtual-sex fix if the virtual sex is made
 MJ> illegal.

That was one part of what I meant (do you think that President Pat
Buchanan or Phil Gramm would ever allow such a thing to exist legally?).

The other part: even with it legal, if ol' Mr. Steelworker is unemployed
and he's hooked he'll end up doing anything to "plug in".

Otto

--- Maximus/2 2.01wb
 * Origin: The Round Table, BBS of Gulf Coast Mensa * 922-1393 (1:106/1393)

Ä [8] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 12 of 187
 From : Jon Glenn                           1:396/1030      .îí 18 .åê 95 22:41
 To   : Mark Jones
 Subj : Sorry for eavedropping ..
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12  93-0696
Mark posts in the sunlit world he believes is reality...

 JG> radioactive wastes. The fallout plume wiped out a few dozen
 JG> villages, and ongoing ground water contamination from the plant
 JG> had done the same thing downsteam along the Techa River. So,
 JG> there most likely was an explosion involved, but not a nuclear
 JG> one.

 MJ> Now *this* I'm willing to buy.  A steam explosion, or something
 MJ> similar, is plausible.  But the claim of a nuclear blast was
 MJ> ludicrous.

          Doesn't make much difference for the poor shmucks downwind of the
blast, though....

                                              Jon
... Drink your coffee! There are poor people in India sleeping.
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12
 * Origin: FIDONET:Black Tower BBS! 504-393-9412  (1:396/1030.0)

Ä [8] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 13 of 187
 From : Mark Jones                          1:105/302.47    .óá 23 .åê 95 15:04
 To   : Frank Glover
 Subj : SeaQuest
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On (21 Dec 95) Frank Glover wrote to Michael Harper...

 MH> For my money, the best depiction in sf of undersea operations is
 MH> still _The Abyss_.
 FG>
 FG> Indeed, they even *invented* one along the way. The faceplate
 FG> design allowed the camera to see actors faces without distortion.
 FG> Divers liked being able to readily recognize the faces and
 FG> expresions (espically if they may be in distress!) of nearby
 FG> divers, too. Most existing designs let you see out okay, but
 FG> distort your face to someone looking in....

And now that helmet design is being commercially manufactured and sold
for divers.  Life imitates art....


--- PPoint 1.78
 * Origin: Folcroft Sanitarium (hsmith@cure.com) (1:105/302.47)

Ä [8] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 14 of 187
 From : Mark Jones                          1:105/302.47    .óá 23 .åê 95 15:06
 To   : Frank Glover
 Subj : Gibson
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On (21 Dec 95) Frank Glover wrote to Mark Jones...

 FG>    Durk Pearson and Sandy Shaw,in one of their Life Extension books
 FG> suggested that such a thing might well be developed for
 FG> entertainment puropses first, then trickle down to medical
 FG> applications. (Note they were advisors for the movie
 FG> `Brainstorm,'...and you may remember that a character there
 FG> couldn't resist using the device to tape his memory/sensations of
 FG> sex acts, too. As you say, if it can be done at all, someone will
 FG> surely find a sexually oriented application...)

BRAINSTORM is one of my favorite movies.  It's as SF tale about a
fascinating technological development (direct recording and transfer
of mental experience) *and* it stars Christopher Walken (one of my
favorite actors).  That movie has had a lot of influence on my
thinking about such things.  (Including the 'test pilot' having sex
with his girlfriend while wired up to the recorder...and that tape
making the rounds at a party...and the guy who spliced together an
endless loop of the orgasm and turned himself into a vegetable.....)

Yeah, however the technology comes into existence, it will be put a
lot of fascinating uses--many of which *nobody* will be able to
predict (who knew that the horseless carriage would lead to the sexual
revolution?).


--- PPoint 1.78
 * Origin: Folcroft Sanitarium (hsmith@cure.com) (1:105/302.47)

Ä [8] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 15 of 187
 From : Aaron Turon                         1:137/2         .cê 24 .åê 95 16:05
 To   : Everyone
 Subj : Star Trek
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Does ANYONE out there like Star Trek?
Please respond!


--- Opus-CBCS 1.73a
 * Origin: Chipper Clipper * Scott me up beamy! * 941-745-56 (1:137/2.0)

Ä [8] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 16 of 187
 From : Frank Glover                        1:2613/477      .cê 24 .åê 95 13:09
 To   : Michael Harper
 Subj : Re: Kubrick
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

MH>  Yeah, and Robby ended up in at least one more movie, made an
MH>  appearance
MH>  on LIS, and finally got stuck in the lobby of the MGM Grand in Vegas,
MH>  where his housing stands to this day...

   God yes, I forgot about him. Robby's been *everywhere* since Forbiden
Planet....!

   Frank


--- QuickBBS 2.80 GoldBase (Zeta-1)
 * Origin: The Matrix Data Bank BBS, Rochester, Ny (1:2613/477)

Ä [8] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 17 of 187
 From : Mark Holtz                          1:203/1701      .cê 24 .åê 95 23:59
 To   : All
 Subj : Upcoming Babylon Five Episodes
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
(Due to finals, no further updates will be made until after the 15th)

US Air Week      PCode Episode Title
-==============- -===- -=====================================================-
Dec 18-Dec 24 95 219   The Long, Twilight Struggle *REPEAT*
Dec 25-Dec 31 95 221   Comes the Inquisitor *REPEAT*
Jan  1-Jan  7 96 301   Matters of Honor *REPEAT*
Jan  8-Jan 14 96 302   Convictions *REPEAT*
Jan 15-Jan 21 96 303   A Day in the Strife *REPEAT*
Jan 22-Jan 28 96 305   Passing Through Gethsemane *REPEAT*
Jan 29-Feb  4 96 304   Voices of Authority
Feb  5-Feb 11 96 306   Dust to Dust
Feb 12-Feb 18 96 307   Exogenesis
Feb 19-Feb 25 96 308   Messages From Earth
Feb 26-Mar  3 96 309   Point of No Return
-                310   Severed Dreams
-                311   Ceremonies of Light and Dark
-                312   A Late Delivery from Avalon
-                313   Sic Transit Vir
-                314   Ship of Tears
-                315   [Unknown]-Part 1
-                316   [Unknown]-Part 2

BABYLON 5: Episode Information and Spoilers

By David Strauss & Others (dstrauss@netcom.com, replayer@genie.com)

Season Three: I am become Death, the Destroyer of Worlds

  "The Babylon Project was our last, best hope for peace...it failed.  But in
  the year of the Shadow war, it became something greater...our last, best
  hope for victory. The year is 2260. The place: Babylon 5."

  -- Commander Susan Ivanova, Opening Narration, Season Three.

5. (304) Voices of Authority - Written by JMS.  Ivanova and Marcus enlist
Draal's help to attempt to contact more of the First Ones.

6. (306) Dust to Dust - Written by JMS. An addictive drug spreads through the
station, prompting a factfinding visit by Bester. G'Kar reaches a turning
point. Walter Koenig guest stars as Bester. Kosh...we'll see him again outside
his suit in "Dust to Dust," but in a somewhat unconventional fashion....

7. (307) Exogenesis - Written by JMS. Marcus and Dr. Franklin combat an
invasion by parasitic aliens that attach themselves to humans.

8. (308) Messages From Earth - Written by JMS. Sheridan discovers a connection
between President Clark and a sinister figure, leading to a confrontation with
the Earth military. The Nightwatch attempt to take over the station.

9. (309) Point Of No Return - Majel Barrett plays Emperor Turhan's Third Wife,
Lady Morella, a prophetess and seer.

10. (310) Severed Dreams - Major Twist in Babylon series.

11. (311) Ceremonies Of Light and Dark - We find out more about the
relationship between Delenn and Lennier. Harlen Ellison does a narriation.

13&14. (315&316) [Unknown] - Sinclair arrives to try and bring Babylon 4
forward in time.

From JMS....

* There will be an Ivanova romance...but not necessarily with whom you might
  expect.
* Vir is *not* leaving the show. We're making some room for him to do his new
  sitcom; he's in episodes 3 and 5 so far, and more to come, of season 3.
* You'll be seeing more of Zack Allen.
* New characters: well, there's Marcus Cole, a Ranger assigned permanently to
  Babylon 5, played by British actor Jason Carter; we'll see Lyta Alexander
  more this year; and Theo...what can I say about Theo...well, perhaps better
  to let you see for yourself.
* We do plan to continue our practice of getting more ambitious each season;
  we saw virtually none of the homeworlds in year one; in year two we began to
  see more of Narn, and Centauri Prime, with some locations in the latter. We
  will continue to expand in each following year; in year three, we plan to
  show Minbar, more of Centauri Prime, the Narn homeworld, Earth and *maybe*
  the Vorlon homeworld, if I can figure out how to do it at this stage without
  totally imploding the show. New sets: yes, and we're creating situations in
  which we can see more of Earth, Mars, our other local planets, plus Narn,
  Centauri, Minbari and one other major world. As the Shadow War cranks into
  gear, you're going to need a place to meet in security and plan for it, so
  we're also building that. We'll see more of Draal's place on Epsilon 3.  And
  there's one other major set that we'll see in the first episode, and quite a
  bit thereafter. We'll see Minbar at least once in year three, perhaps more.
  We'll see more of the Epsilon 3 complex this coming season, yes.
* What's great is that this season, we haven't had one single episode on the
  level of War Prayer or Infection or Grail, some of our weaker first season
  eps.  The worst we've done is pretty darned good. What we're now working for
  in year three is that they're all better than that at their baseline rating.
  And so far, they're killer . . .  We're also doing some major EFX blow-outs
  of a type other than "they go into space and shoot stuff." Very interesting,
  creative, offbeat stuff.
* Never said the shadow war would be over in one year. Only that it wouldn't
  last three.
* What is the origin of the Human/Minbari connection? You'll find out this
  very season (year three), in no uncertain or ambiguous terms. You're
  assuming that the relationship you saw between Delenn and Sinclair was a
  romantic one. It was a close one, on her part in particular, but not based
  on romance.  We'll explain what that means in year three.
* Yes, the Rangers will play a more important part in year three, and
  Sinclair's part in it will be revealed.
--
David Strauss / dss2k@virginia.edu  <*>
Home Page: http://www.eskimo.com/~dstrauss/
Administrator, New York Islanders Mailing List
The Psi Corps is your friend.  Trust the Corps.

--- MsgPost 1.1
 * Origin: Deep Space Franchise (916) 721-1701 (1:203/1701)

Ä [8] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 18 of 187
 From : Daniel Nystrom                      2:205/355.29    .pä 20 .åê 95 11:41
 To   : Lawrence E Dunlap
 Subj : Gibson
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
In a message of 17 Dec 95 Lawrence E Dunlap wrote to me:

 LED> Gibson's Cyberspace would have to develop over decades. His model was
 LED> using sensory and volitional components of our brains to interface
 LED> with the 2060s idea of the Net coupled to neural linking to the Net
 LED> with total sensory imput and data exchange.

Yes, but I think someone needs to develope a Virtual Reality Net That works
before any neural linking. And we already got the tech for that kind of
operation!
Todays "CyberSpace" is defined InterNet.. But I don't think that anyone ever
will be able to transform today's InterNet to a Cyberspace similar to Gibsons
idea of it. InterNet is far to extended for that kind of operation! Cyberspace
have to start from scratch and slowly advance to a worldwide net. It does not
need to have this "BIG BANG" that Inter net caused.. Suddenly all citizens of
earth had access to internet! I think the net is doomed.. It got to big, to
soon.. If someone really wants to make reality of CyberSpace, I think that
someone have got to be sure NOT to let the public in, before he knows that
everything is OK. InterNet will soon not be able to grow any futher. I think
that CyberSpace needs to be developed by "Hackers", not by professional educated
professors at NASA.. The exitement disappears when you can read about the Net in
CU Amiga or something like that! It need to be a bit "secret" and forbidden to
grow..

 LED> I agree with you the cost of developing neural interfacing with a
 LED> cyberspace network will cost several hundred millions of dollars and
 LED> probably won't be used for artifical surrogate sex stimsim
 LED> productions. Scientists will have to provide beneficial uses for such
 LED> advances and acceptable uses to differing generational groups and
 LED> difering cultures.

As I already written above : I think we should develope A REAL virtual
reality... I think it would be nice just to lean back in my sofa and put the
goggles on. The problem however is the price of hardware! I could never afford
to buy some VR equipments. I'm a student.

 MvH - Daniel Nystroem - Bye, for now!


--- Spot 1.3a Unregistered
 * Origin: Twilight Sky, A Caress Of Stars (2:205/355.29)

Ä [8] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 19 of 187
 From : Michael Harper                      1:123/10        .cê 24 .åê 95 22:46
 To   : ROBERT LIDGREN
 Subj : Kubricking
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

  -=> Over coffee and beignets, ROBERT LIDGREN told MICHAEL HARPER all about
  -=> KUBRICK COMMENTS...

 -> Agreed on both counts. I'm not disputing the man's skill, I'm just
 -> saying that I personally don't like him, and I don't consider him an
 -> artist without peer.

 RL> I probably wouldn't want to invite him out to dinner either.  But
 RL> then, I like Woody Allen's work but wouldn't ask him to babysit my
 RL> daughter (if you get my drift).

Oh, yeah. I feel the same way about Roman Polanski.

 RL> I like actor's directors like Clint Eastwood.  Now there's a talented
 RL> man and a man with class!

Definitely. Clint's a nice guy and a great director, and I've always
been a fan of his. Even he has his off-days, though; Bronco Billy being
a good example there... ;)

 RL> What I like about YOUR writing is that it is clear, pointed and
 RL> powerfully executed.  There is not a trace of ambiguity.  You think
 RL> things through before writing them IMHO.

Thanks. <blushing> I hate to tell ya, though, but I compose on the fly,
and correct it as I go. I kinda think things through as I'm going...

But I do try to phrase things as clearly as I can, and leave nothing
open to misinterpretation. I've never been terribly shy when it came to
telling someone how I felt about something; just ask any of the women
I've been involved with!

 RL> Cheers and all the best to you and your family for Christmas and the
 RL> New Year.

You too, my friend. The spirit of the season be with you and yours.


... "Thus men may grow wiser every day." -- Shakespeare
--- RA/FD/FMail
 * Origin: The Electric Fox - Memphis,TN, U.S.A.  1-901-327-1008 (1:123/10)

Ä [8] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 20 of 187
 From : Michael Harper                      1:123/10        .cê 24 .åê 95 22:47
 To   : Frank Glover
 Subj : The Abyss
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 -=> Over coffee and beignets, Frank Glover told Michael Harper all about
 -=> SeaQuest...

 MH>  For my money, the best depiction in sf of undersea operations is
 MH>  still _The Abyss_.
 FG>
 FG> Indeed, they even *invented* one along the way. The faceplate
 FG> design allowed the camera to see actors faces without distortion.
 FG> Divers liked being able to readily recognize the faces and expresions
 FG> (especially if they may be in distress!) of nearby divers, too. Most
 FG> existing designs let you see out okay, but distort your face to
 FG> someone looking in....

Exactly. Most underwater shots are of people in wetsuits, and looking
through a scuba mask and regulator it's hard to tell the difference
between Arnold Schwarzenegger and Kim Basinger. (Vive la difference!)
The O'Neil Drysuit and helmet that they came up with for _Abyss_ is one
of the best innovations in marine gear in the last century, and the
funny thing is, all they really did was reengineer the old-style diving
suit design that's been around for a century...

Give it five years, and some bright boy with Exxon will come up with an
undersea drilling rig just like Deepcore...


... "Bud, did you know your hand is blue?" --Lew Finler, "The Abyss"
--- RA/FD/FMail
 * Origin: The Electric Fox - Memphis,TN, U.S.A.  1-901-327-1008 (1:123/10)

Ä [8] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 21 of 187
 From : Michael Harper                      1:123/10        .cê 24 .åê 95 22:47
 To   : Paul Goverts
 Subj : Robby the robot
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 -=> Over coffee and beignets, Paul Goverts asked Michael Harper about

 Robby the robot...

 -=> Quoting Michael Harper to Frank Glover <=-

 MH> Yeah, and Robby ended up in at least one more movie, made an
 MH> appearance on LIS, and finally got stuck in the lobby of the MGM Grand
 MH> in Vegas, where his housing stands to this day...

 PG> Didn't he also appear in Gremlins?

 I don't think so... the original Robby is still at the MGM Grand,
 unless they've stuck him in a storeroom somewhere. Robby II was built
 from the same design specs by a propman in L.A. sometime in the early
 '70's, and is identical externally in all aspects. With some refitting,
 he's appeared on a number of shows over the years; he did an episode of
 Jack Webb's _Project UFO_ series, and turned up in a dream sequence in
 _Earth Girls Are Easy_.

 And now that I think on it further, I believe you're right. He did turn
 up in _Gremlins_...

 Robby's a good example of passionate obsession given form. The guy that
 built him, if I remember right, wanted the original Robby to restore,
 and MGM said no. Somehow he got hold of the plans, and duplicated him
 in every detail. In the process he repaired all design flaws of the
 original, and improved things so that the operator can stay inside the
 housing for longer periods. I think this redesign even allows Robby's
 legs to bend at the knee...

 And all because the guy remembered the robot from a favorite movie.
 Think about that... :D


... "Well, it *is* an imperfect universe." -- G'Kar
--- RA/FD/FMail
 * Origin: The Electric Fox - Memphis,TN, U.S.A.  1-901-327-1008 (1:123/10)

Ä [8] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 22 of 187
 From : Michael Harper                      1:123/10        .îí 25 .åê 95 11:36
 To   : Mark Jones
 Subj : Cybersex
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 -=> Over coffee and beignets, Mark Jones told Otto Cordray all about Gibson...

 MJ> I would only worry about unemployed steelworkers robbing and
 MJ> killing people to get their virtual-sex fix if the virtual sex is made
 MJ> illegal.  Because, just like drugs and prostitution, it will never go
 MJ> away.  It'll just go underground and become very expensive.

 Very true. Any opiate, no matter what it is, does that when made
 illegal. Be it booze, weed, religion or Rush Limbaugh, if it's
 outlawed, there'll be an immediate black market for it...

 MJ> [As a completely irrelevant and sexist comment in passing:  Cindy
 MJ> or Claudia would okay, I guess.  But for my tastes, Joan Chen or
 MJ> Barbara Carrera are the ones to watch for.]

 Agreed. But the ones I want to get my lustful paws on are Kristen Cloke
 and/or Marie Marshall...
 ;)


... "This lion is a very fox for his valor." -- Shakespeare
--- RA/FD/FMail
 * Origin: The Electric Fox - Memphis,TN, U.S.A.  1-901-327-1008 (1:123/10)

Ä [8] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 23 of 187
 From : Gerry Normandeau                    1:163/430       .cê 24 .åê 95 02:22
 To   : Brion Lienhart
 Subj : Re: X-files
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
* On 12-21-95  16:03 Brion Lienhart strung up Chris Bach on the gallows pole
because of X-files

 BL> Speaking of which, did you see Weird Science last weekend?
 BL> There were two government agents, Scolder(Male) and
 BL> Molly(Female) checking around on some reports of strange
 BL> activity. I nearly wet 'em, I was laughing so hard.
 BL>

Hi I wonder if you watch the Computer animated series Reboot! But on an
upcoming episode Gillian Anderson (Dana Scully) is going to give her voice
to a character Data Nully who is an investigator. This should be a scream!
Keep your eyes open for the date I think it is very soon!
                                    As a member of the government I deny any
                                    and all knowlage of what I just typed.
                            MERRY X-MASS FILES!

... "Aw, putting speed holes in my car.  Makes it go faster." - Homer
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

--- Maximus 2.01wb
 * Origin: Watership Down BBS, Kanata , ON (1:163/430)

Ä [8] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 24 of 187
 From : Owen E. Oulton                      1:243/45        .cê 24 .åê 95 02:22
 To   : Frank Glover
 Subj : The Abyss
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

MH>  For my money, the best depiction in sf of undersea operations is
MH>  still  _The Abyss_.

'Course, it helped that all the live-action diving scenes were actually filmed
underwater.

 FG>    Indeed, they even *invented* one along the way. The
 FG> faceplate design allowed the camera to see actors
 FG> faces without distortion. Divers liked being able to
 FG> readily recognize the faces and expresions (espically
 FG> if they may be in distress!) of nearby divers, too.
 FG> Most existing designs let you see out okay, but
 FG> distort your face to someone looking in....

Saw an interview with the diving supply company which supplied the equipment.
Apparently, they were asked to merely design a helmet faceplate to withstand the
10 or so metres of water they were filming in, and realised that the design was
actually superior in terms of visibility to the real stuff, so they went ahead
and engineered it for deeper dives.

CFN, O

--- Maximus 2.01wb
 * Origin: Pandora's Box, Ottawa, Ont. 613-829-1209 (1:243/45)

Ä [8] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 25 of 187
 From : Steven Wesen                        1:271/236       .îí 25 .åê 95 21:22
 To   : Frank Swarbrick
 Subj : Re: Red Dwarf
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE 1.11+
The Toxic Avenger or anything in the Sci Fi area Video Store

--- GEcho 1.11+
 * Origin: Time Machine Node 2, Newport News, VA 595-9383 (1:271/236)

Ä [8] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 26 of 187
 From : Dan Kachoogian                      1:107/953       .cê 24 .åê 95 11:18
 To   : Aaron Turon
 Subj : Re: Hi!
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
*** Quoting Aaron Turon to Everyone ***

AT> Hello! I'm a total TREKIE! Does anyone else like it? Please write
AT> back!

Trek? Was that a show back in the 60's or something? Oh... wait.. That was the
job TJ Hooker used to have, right? :-)

                                                       -Dan

---
 * Origin: The Juice Bar BBS (908) 298-0764 (1:107/953)

Ä [8] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 27 of 187
 From : Frank Glover                        1:2613/477      .îí 25 .åê 95 19:09
 To   : Mark Jones
 Subj : Re: nuclear
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

MJ>   TR>      Sure, a few fools will go anyway.  They die, and the
MJ>  collective
MJ>   TR> IQ of the human species increases. Think of it as evolution in
MJ>   TR> action.
MJ>
MJ>     Are you sure it was Niven?  I could have sworn it was Heinlein who
MJ>  suggested this.  (He also suggested a solution for the "insoluble"

   I know Niven used a line very much like that in `Not Long Before The End.'
with reference to sorcerers dealing with Conan-type swordsmen. (Niven was on the
side of the sorcerers.)

   It even has some relation to this thread, as it suggested that magic was a
finite, non-renewable resource....

   Frank


--- QuickBBS 2.80 GoldBase (Zeta-1)
 * Origin: The Matrix Data Bank BBS, Rochester, Ny (1:2613/477)

Ä [8] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 28 of 187
 From : Frank Glover                        1:2613/477      .îí 25 .åê 95 19:18
 To   : Otto Cordray
 Subj : Re: Gibson
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

OC>   MJ>    I would only worry about unemployed steelworkers robbing and
OC>   MJ> killing people to get their virtual-sex fix if the virtual sex
OC>  is made
OC>   MJ> illegal.
OC>
OC>  That was one part of what I meant (do you think that President Pat
OC>  Buchanan or Phil Gramm would ever allow such a thing to exist
OC>  legally?).

   So it would, as he said, drive it underground. It would require technology
that would almost *have* to be available for other `perfectly good' reasons.
Imagine trying to supress adult video/software without also supressing
VCRs/computers. It would be too easy to `roll your own,' so to speak.

OC>  The other part: even with it legal, if ol' Mr. Steelworker is
OC>  unemployed
OC>  and he's hooked he'll end up doing anything to "plug in".

   I don't know...this isn't quite like a chemical dependancy (unless hormones
count!). No job, no electricity or data access. It would be like trying to steal
time on a flight simulator. You can't exactly get this from your dealer on the
corner.....

   Frank


--- QuickBBS 2.80 GoldBase (Zeta-1)
 * Origin: The Matrix Data Bank BBS, Rochester, Ny (1:2613/477)

Ä [8] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 29 of 187
 From : Frank Glover                        1:2613/477      .îí 25 .åê 95 19:26
 To   : Jon Glenn
 Subj : Re: Sorry for eavedropping ..
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

JG>   MJ> Now *this* I'm willing to buy.  A steam explosion, or something
JG>   MJ> similar, is plausible.  But the claim of a nuclear blast was
JG>   MJ> ludicrous.
JG>
JG>            Doesn't make much difference for the poor shmucks downwind
JG>  of the
JG>  blast, though....

   They could (if those responsible didn't suppress the info) still have some
time to evacuate. A suprise nuclear detonation doesn't give you that.

   Of course you don't have to use radioactives for the same effect. Consider
Bophal. Or that African (?) lake some years back that *naturally* released a
toxic gas....

   Frank


--- QuickBBS 2.80 GoldBase (Zeta-1)
 * Origin: The Matrix Data Bank BBS, Rochester, Ny (1:2613/477)

Ä [8] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 30 of 187
 From : Frank Glover                        1:2613/477      .îí 25 .åê 95 19:27
 To   : Aaron Turon
 Subj : Re: Star Trek
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

AT>  Does ANYONE out there like Star Trek?
AT>  Please respond!

   Plenty of Trek fans here. Discuss any part of the series/movies you want.

   Frank


--- QuickBBS 2.80 GoldBase (Zeta-1)
 * Origin: The Matrix Data Bank BBS, Rochester, Ny (1:2613/477)

Ä [8] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 31 of 187
 From : KEN DAVIS                           1:2624/610      .åò 21 .åê 95 12:06
 To   : Dan Kachoogian
 Subj : Seaquest 2032
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: FastEcho 1.45 8217
While lurking about unseen, Dan Kachoogian spake thusly to Shawn Merrow:

 DK> *** Quoting Shawn Merrow to All ***

 SM> Seaquest 2032 has been cancealed. No reason known.
 SM> Posilbly killed by the Nelsons. Recomnd kill the
 SM> Nelson family. For crimes aginst the science
 SM> fiction audieance.
 DK> Couldn't be that they ran out of plots, could it?

 Maybe they ran out of viewers? Or maybe when they end this season they
 can't figure out another impossible ending, so they will just leave the
 sub destroyed. Just like they did the show. :)
 Ken

--- Blue Wave/RA v2.20 [NR]
 * Origin: The World's End BBS 914-298-0158 (1:2624/610)

Ä [8] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 32 of 187
 From : Paul Browning                       1:3621/14       .îí 25 .åê 95 09:45
 To   : Harold Groot
 Subj : Re: SF Comedy
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

HG> PB> Love that Quark!!!  Still can't track it down tho...  Want all the
HG> PB> episodes to the series...  That and Man From Atlantis...

HG>Last time I saw Quark, it was playing on the Comedy Channel, not the
HG>Sci-Fi Channel.  Back-to-back with Captain Nice.  I taped some of them.

You did?  They make GREAT Christmas gifts! (Heavy hint!!!)  Heheheh...
Yeah, There were only something in the neighborhood of 8 episodes total.
You got an internet email address?

Mine is: Badger@compu.net

I would LOVE to trade you for some of those...  Got any sci-fi you're
looking for???  I've got quite a bit...

Paul

---
 þ SLMR 2.1a þ
--- CNet/3
 * Origin: Niflheim! 615.551.9904 Clarksville TN... (1:3621/14)

Ä [8] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 33 of 187
 From : Darre LuAllen                       1:3637/1        .òp 26 .åê 95 13:25
 To   : Lyndon Soerensen
 Subj : Favorites
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 On 12-20-95 Lyndon Soerensen wrote to Darre LuAllen...

 DL> Okay, when you're not slogging through an Anthony novel, what do you
 DL> prefer to read?  Personally, I'll try to read about anything.  In

 LS>  Hmmm.  Rather a tough question.  I s'pose I could best answer this by
 LS> saying that I prefer to read anything I haven't read b4.  If I look at
 LS> my library of books on the opposite side of my room, I see Heinlein,
 LS> Vonnegut, Bradbury, Herbert, Delaney, King, Robinson (Spider),

 LS> Ellison and a whole bunch more that I won't bore you with.

 Quite a few good authors listed above.  I've been considering reading some
 Ellison and Robinson.  I had a room mate who was fanatic about both.
 Unfortunately, he was killed in a car accident a year or so ago.  I don't
 remember what he use to read.  Perhaps you have a few suggestions as to
 what would be a good read.

 DL> past,  I have read Ray Bradbury, Kurt Vonnegut, RAH, Mercades Lackey,
 LS>                                                      ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
 LS> I've only read some of Lackey, but I was impressed with what I read.
 LS> BTW, it's _Mercedes_.

 LS>
 DL> A.C. Clarke  R.A. Salvatory (I think that's right), Randell Garrett,
 LS>                   ^^^^^^^^^
 LS> Salvatore

 Oops.  I'm writing this during my breaks at work, so I don;t have immediate
 access to my library.  Actually, I'm surprised I didn't misspell more.
 I was also impressed by Lackey.  I've read some of her "modern magic/elves
 in the modern world" stories.  I really like what I read.  I have not
 attempted to read her medieval fantasies.  I just haven't had a desire to.
 A friend read one of her books and got upset because of how she handled a
 same sex relation between two characters.  This had no bearing on me, except
 to make me curious about how she handled it.  My friend is sometimes a
 little quick to judge.  Now he won't read anything by her, even when I tell
 him the stories are good and have no same sex liaisons in them.

 DL> I   cannot remember.  I'm also a fan of Poe and Lovecraft.
 LS>                                         ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
 LS> So am I.  _Ia_, _Ia_, _Cthulhu_ _ftagn_!   :)

 Poe re-invented the short story.  He may have never have written any
 Science Fiction (I'm not sure.  Been a strange X-mas break.), but he
 did do some fine horror-fantasy pieces.  Lovecraft was just a demented
 little wierdo who wrote some of the most disturbing horror stories ever.
 The scientific detachment with which he writes helps to underscore the
 fear the characters feel.  He also leaves quite a bit to the imagination.
 Frankly, my own mind can come up with more frightening creatures than any
 writer or Hollywood-type could ever.  Goes the same for almost everyone.
 We know what scares us better than anyone.  That's the way it should be
 written.

 DL> stick with it.  As I stated before, Anthony was just too involved for
 DL> me.  But that was just  one book that I tried.  I suppose that if I
 DL> try another, then I might fare  better.  The book I tried was the
 DL> first in the Adept series (assuming I'm  not confusing my authors).

 LS> The adept series was ok.  The only series of his that I haven't read was
 LS> TAROT.  Did you know he also wrote some horror novels?

 I had no idea.  Are you suggesting them to me?  If so, what are they?
 Would you suggest any other books?


                                              Darre LuAllen
                                              Just another pretty face
___
 * OFFLINE 1.56 * Assumption is the mother of all screwups...

--- Maximus/2 3.00
 * Origin: Cumberland BBS TN 615/526-3347 V34 (1:3637/1)

Ä [8] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 34 of 187
 From : Steven Sullivan                     1:289/34        .îí 25 .åê 95 12:39
 To   : Todd Sullivan
 Subj : NUCLEAR BS
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
TS> MD>> Nuclear power is the most cost-effective and nearly the safest.

TS> JW>  Until it ***ks up...look under 'Chernobyl' or 'Three Mile

Island'

TS>Chernobyl, yes; TMI, no.  Not once did the reactor core become exposed to
TS>open air at TMI.  Comparing water to graphite moderated reactors is as bad
TS>as comparing apples and oranges; little if any coresponedence.

TS>If nuclear power was so god-awfully dangerous, how do you explaing the
TS>success of the US Navy's submarines?  Don't say dumb luck; you've no
TS>knowledge, other than what those rags have mis-represented; I was involved.

Agreed and seconded.  To bring the subject back on topic, Heinlein makes
the same point in a story where a woman becomes president.  (My
apologies, the name of the short escapes me.)  As an addendum, "JW",
look up the number of people suffering from smog in LA right now, or the
death toll of "yellow fog" (caused by the coal burning plants) in
Britain in the 18th and 19th centuries.  Power comes at a cost, and
although SF can apprise us of POTENTIAL costs, it IS occasionally
inaccurate.  To reference Heinlein again, albeit years earlier, point JW
towards _Blowups Happen_.  I'm a proponent of nuclear power; it's hard
to envisage a future where there isn't nuclear power, and the way to get
to SAFE nuclear power is to work our way through the pitfalls of unsafe
nuclear power.
(This message brought to you from a coal burning town 60 miles from the
Kingdom of Callaway, home of the country's best nuclear power plant.)

ape

--- FLAME v1.1
 * Origin: Holy Bytes, it's The Batboard TBBS - (314) 446-0475 (1:289/34)

Ä [8] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 35 of 187
 From : Eugeny V Marinin                    2:5020/194.9    .åò 21 .åê 95 23:20
 To   : All
 Subj : Alien 4 Info Wanted!
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.RFC-Path:
apex!f200.n464!f400.n5020!f35.n5020!f144.n5020!f269.n5020!f194.n5020!not-for-mai
l
 * Forwarded from "RU.VIDEO"
 * Originally by Eugeny V. Marinin
 * Originally to All
 * Originally dated 21 Dec 1995, 23:03

Greetings!

SUBJ! Who knows about it more then 'Yes. Will!'? :)

With Best Regards,
    Eugeny V. Marinin

--- GEcho 1.02+
 * Origin: °±²¦ From Euge Muad'Dib ¦²±° (2:5020/194.9)

Ä [8] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 36 of 187
 From : ROBERT LIDGREN                      1:134/10        .òp 26 .åê 95 09:54
 To   : ALL
 Subj : NOWHERE MAN
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
NOWHERE MAN FANS:

I've just discovered the series Nowhere Man starring Bruce Greenwood as
the "man on the run," Tom Veil.

Thomas Veil is a photojournalist who was married to woman named Allyson.
He has black and white photos that someone wants very badly.  In the
episode I just saw:  "The Incredible Derek," Tom encounters a youngster
with psychic abilites who seemingly has the power to delve into other's
lives and becomes upset by frightening images and words.  Tom found the
boy while on a trip to a town out in "the boonies" where he was trying
to track down an old U.S. Army HumVee(sp?) vehicle which had the licence
plate numbers of the one he documented in his photgraphs.

BTW:  The negative which seems to be "central" to this episode shows
some army soldiers (or mercenaries?) who have just murdered (by hanging)
four men somehwere in a jungle-like setting.  I haven't a clue as to why
the men were killed but because Tom Veil possesses negatives of the
scene "someone:" is after him.

The series appears to be inspired, to a degree, by the old British hit
"The Prisoner."  In addition, I detect a similarity in Tom Veil's
character to that of Dr. Richard Kimbal, the main character in the old
TV series "The Fuguitive" - the same kind of vulnerability and
well-earned paranoia.

The only other episode I have seen was a while ago.  A story called:
"Paradise on Your Doorstep."  This story finds Tom Veil in a place
called New Phoenix, a "community" very reminiscent of some of the
religious "cults" which have been a part of late 20th Century history.
People in the "community" seem outwardly content but also seem to have
lost their identity.  What lead Tom Veil to this place was a photo of
his wife, Alyson.  Tom was working at a photo shop in a small town and
happened upon the shot when he was processing a customer's film.

----------------------------------------------------------------

Now, what I'd like to know is more about the story line to date.

1.  Who is this group which seems to want to use any method to get at
    Tom's film and his diary?

2.  Am I correct in concluding that, at one time, Tom Veil was placed in
    an insane asylum by this group in an effort to coerce him into
    cooperating?

3.  Is there anything else in Tom's set of negative that the "group"
    seems to want to get from him?

4.  What role, if any has his wife played in this conspiracy.  I.E. do
    you get the impression she is some innocent victim too or is she
    part of the process of "taking out" Tom Veil?

5.  At any point in the series, has there appeared ANYONE who is playing
    an on-going supporter for Tom?  If there has not, he really IS up to
    his a** in "alligators!" <g>

    I would appreaciate any input you can provide for me to help me get
    "up to speed."

    Cheers,

    -Rob

   ====================================================================
   | Robert Lidgren at: * THE INNER SANCTUM | * The Old Viking        |
   |                    * Writer, Teacher   | * Seeker of the Truth   |
   |  LOGICAL SOLUTIONS - BEST CALGARY BBS AND INTERNET SERVICE!      |
   | e-mail me at------------> robert.lidgren@bbs.logicnet.com        |
   | My Personal Web Site----> http://www.logicnet.com/robert.lidgren |
   ====================================================================
--- PCBoard 15.2
 * Origin: 32 lines 40 Gig BBS, Realtime InterNet SLIP (403)299-9900 (1:134/10)

Ä [8] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 37 of 187
 From : ROBERT LIDGREN                      1:134/10        .òp 26 .åê 95 09:59
 To   : ALL
 Subj : SLIDERS/ANY NEWS?
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Has anyone heard ANYTHING about whether SLIDERS might be picked up
again?  I've been pre-occupied for the last few months with my ailing
Mom but she's out of the hospital now so I have some time to pursue my
other interests too.

As always, thanks, in advance, to anyone kind enough to reply.

Cheers,

-Rob
--- PCBoard 15.2
 * Origin: 32 lines 40 Gig BBS, Realtime InterNet SLIP (403)299-9900 (1:134/10)

Ä [8] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 38 of 187
 From : Mark Jones                          1:105/302.47    .òp 26 .åê 95 17:53
 To   : Daniel Nystrom
 Subj : Gibson
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On (20 Dec 95) Daniel Nystrom wrote to Lawrence E Dunlap...

 DN> Todays "CyberSpace" is defined InterNet.. But I don't think that
 DN> anyone ever will be able to transform today's InterNet to a Cyberspace
 DN> similar to Gibsons idea of it. InterNet is far to extended for that
 DN> kind of operation! Cyberspace have to start from scratch and slowly
 DN> advance to a worldwide net. It does not need to have this "BIG BANG"
 DN> that Inter net caused.. Suddenly all citizens of earth had access to
 DN> internet! I think the net is doomed.. It got to big, to soon.. If
 DN> someone really wants to make reality of CyberSpace, I think that
 DN> someone have got to be sure NOT to let the public in, before he knows
 DN> that everything is OK. InterNet will soon not be able to grow any
 DN> futher. I think that CyberSpace needs to be developed by "Hackers",
 DN> not by professional educated professors at NASA.. The exitement
 DN> disappears when you can read about the Net in CU Amiga or something
 DN> like that! It need to be a bit "secret" and forbidden to grow..

Wow.  Where to start....

First, the internet didn't just BANG! appear.  It grew slowly, just as
you're suggesting a cyberscape would have to.  To many people it may
*seem* to have simply appeared out of nowhere--but that isn't the
case.  It *was* developed by "hackers" ...kind of.

Second, I see no reason why the net cannot continue to grow.  Its
growth may (must, eventually) slow--but as far as I know, there's no
physical limit to how big it could become.  (The telephone system is a
good example--who would have thought in the 1930s that the telephone
system would someday require so many area codes and 10-digit numbers
to handle all the phones?  But it *can* handle all those phones.)

As for turning the internet into cyberspace--the World-Wide Web is a
vastly more sophisticated and complex interface than a simple blinking
cursor.  A "virtual" environment could be designed, tested and
gradually worked into the system in the same way.  Not everyone would
be able to access that cyberscape at first, but then, I can't access
the WWW on my 8086 either.

Cyberspace *can* be created eventually--the only question is whether
it will turn out to be anything like what Gibson envisoned (if so,
probably only because fans of his *made* it that way).


--- PPoint 1.78
 * Origin: Folcroft Sanitarium (hsmith@cure.com) (1:105/302.47)

Ä [8] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 39 of 187
 From : Mark Jones                          1:105/302.47    .òp 26 .åê 95 18:01
 To   : Michael Harper
 Subj : Cybersex
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On (25 Dec 95) Michael Harper wrote to Mark Jones...

 MH>  MJ> [As a completely irrelevant and sexist comment in passing:  Cindy
 MH>  MJ> or Claudia would okay, I guess.  But for my tastes, Joan Chen or
 MH>  MJ> Barbara Carrera are the ones to watch for.]
 MH>
 MH> Agreed. But the ones I want to get my lustful paws on are Kristen
 MH> Cloke and/or Marie Marshall...

Uhhmmm....who?  Never heard of them.


--- PPoint 1.78
 * Origin: Folcroft Sanitarium (hsmith@cure.com) (1:105/302.47)

Ä [8] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 40 of 187
 From : Mark Jones                          1:105/302.47    .òp 26 .åê 95 18:02
 To   : Frank Glover
 Subj : nuclear
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On (25 Dec 95) Frank Glover wrote to Mark Jones...

 MJ> Are you sure it was Niven? I could have sworn it was Heinlein who
 MJ> suggested this. (He also suggested a solution for the "insoluble"
 FG>
 FG>    I know Niven used a line very much like that in `Not Long Before
 FG> The End.' with reference to sorcerers dealing with Conan-type
 FG> swordsmen. (Niven was on the side of the sorcerers.)

   Yes, it was Larry Niven who coined the phrase, "This of it as
evolution in action."  (In OATH OF FEALTY, I believe.)
   That wasn't what I was getting at.

   I could have sworn I read something by Heinlein suggesting that we
stack blocks of nuclear waste in inhospitable pieces of desert, with a
fence around it and signs that read, "If you cross this fence, you
will die."

   Jack says it was Larry Niven.  I beg to differ.

   Though possibly I've got my wires crossed.


--- PPoint 1.78
 * Origin: Folcroft Sanitarium (hsmith@cure.com) (1:105/302.47)

Ä [8] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 41 of 187
 From : Garth Gilmore                       1:250/1066      .òp 26 .åê 95 15:48
 To   : Kay Shapero
 Subj : nuclear BS
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
     I couldn't resist- hi, Mrs. Shapero! It's me, Twopaw! :)

     SEEEEEEEE ya!

--- Xenolink 1.97, XEmacs 1.2
 * Origin:  (1:250/1066)

Ä [8] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 42 of 187
 From : Frank Swarbrick                     1:104/825       .òp 26 .åê 95 20:46
 To   : Steven Wesen
 Subj : Re: Red Dwarf
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12  92-0022
On 12-25-95  21:22 My Very Good Friend Steven Wesen said:

 SW> The Toxic Avenger or anything in the Sci Fi area Video Store

Silly me, I thought we were discussing TV shows, not b-movie's...

        Frank

... No one can hear when you're Screaming in Digital!
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12
 * Origin: The Bailey Information Exchange BBS, 28.8k v.fc  (1:104/825.0)

Ä [8] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 43 of 187
 From : Steven Wesen                        1:271/236       .pä 27 .åê 95 20:57
 To   : ROBERT LIDGREN
 Subj : Re: SLIDERS/ANY NEWS?
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE 1.11+
Sliders will be back and new episodes this Jan or Feb when they put Party of
Five.

--- GEcho 1.11+
 * Origin: Time Machine Node 2, Newport News, VA 595-9383 (1:271/236)

Ä [8] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 44 of 187
 From : Emilio Ares                         1:379/1         .pä 27 .åê 95 16:06
 To   : All
 Subj : 1945
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE 1.11+
Hello All,

        I'm in the process of reading 1945.  Has anyone else read this?
        Any opinions on its contents or style?

Emilio

... Science Fiction:  a mind-altering substance!
--- GEcho 1.11+
 * Origin: The Transporter Room - Online Doom! - 704/567-9513 (1:379/1)

Ä [8] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 45 of 187
 From : Eric Reinholt                       1:2604/309      .îí 25 .åê 95 07:42
 To   : Michael Harper
 Subj : Quark
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 On 12-21-95 MICHAEL HARPER wrote to DARRE LUALLEN...

 DL> I used to love that show, but no one would acknowledge its existence,
 DL> until now.  I just thought that I had been hallucinating.  Now I
 DL> guess it's just a case of "Disco Deprogramming."  Didn't the show
 DL> have a set of twins?  I was five years younger than you when I saw
 DL> this show,  so my memory is not very trustworthy.

 MH> Yep. Trish and Cybil Barnstable, former Doublemint Gum Twins. A bit
 MH> too slim for my liking, but still damn cute. God knows what happened
 MH> to them after the series ended...

 MH> Tim Thomerson and Richard Bejamin have both gone on to other, if not
 MH> necessarily better, things...

 Weren't those girls "The Bettys"?

 ** Eric **

 * OFFLINE 1.54 * Babylon 5 was our last, best hope for peace.
.................................................................


--- WM v3.10/93-0747
 * Origin: Plain Brown Wrapper BBS-Cresskill NJ.(201)569-6685  (1:2604/309)

Ä [8] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 46 of 187
 From : Eric Reinholt                       1:2604/309      .îí 25 .åê 95 20:24
 To   : Otto Cordray
 Subj : Gibson
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 On 12-24-95 OTTO CORDRAY wrote to MARK JONES...

 MJ>    I would only worry about unemployed steelworkers robbing and
 MJ> killing people to get their virtual-sex fix if the virtual sex is
 MJ> made illegal.

 OC> That was one part of what I meant (do you think that President Pat
 OC> Buchanan or Phil Gramm would ever allow such a thing to exist
 OC> legally?).

 OC> The other part: even with it legal, if ol' Mr. Steelworker is
 OC> unemployed and he's hooked he'll end up doing anything to "plug
 OC> in".

 Howdy.

 I'm trying to remember a movie where they touched upon Virtual
 Sex . . . uh . . . "Brainstorm" I think.

 Showed one ill effect of being hooked up into a Virtual Loop of
 orgasm being a palsy.  Kind of a Virtual MS.

 ** Eric **

 * OFFLINE 1.54 * It can be a dangerous place...
.................................................................


--- WM v3.10/93-0747
 * Origin: Plain Brown Wrapper BBS-Cresskill NJ.(201)569-6685  (1:2604/309)

Ä [8] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 47 of 187
 From : The Raven                           1:363/309       .óá 23 .åê 95 14:46
 To   : Bianca Wesslak
 Subj : nuclear BS
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 BW> Maybe the core never hit air but the three mile Island explosian is a
 BW> good example of how dangerous nuclear energy is.

     Explosion?  There was *no* explosion.  I am quite serious when I say
that the total amount of radiation released was miniscule, I *meant* it.
You'd get a bigger dose of radiation from just sitting in the US Capital
Building.
     Funny how you never answered this point.  Look, it's really very simple.
Reactor cores don't explode.  Period.  They can have a catastrophic meltdown,
they can have radioactive coolant leaks, but they do not go up in a cascade
of nuclear fire a'la a nuclear bomb.  They *can't*.


 BW> Lead is the only shield that I know of that can withstand radiation,
 BW> that and cockroaches.

     Depends on what type of radiation you are talking about.  Plastic
will stop EM radiation (as will clothing, for that matter).  Tin foil stops
microwaves.  Lead, gold, a sufficient amount of just about *any* matter,
will stop most forms of radiation cold.  And, of course, neutrinos aren't
stopped by anything...
     So, what are you talking about?

     Jack Butler



... "Tipsy and pink, doughy guys roamed the land freely!" -- Tom Servo
--- Blue Wave/DOS v2.20 [NR]
 * Origin: Forethought BBS -=- Orlando, FL -=- 407-679-6561 (1:363/309)

Ä [8] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 48 of 187
 From : The Raven                           1:363/309       .óá 23 .åê 95 14:55
 To   : Bianca Wesslak
 Subj : nuclear
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 BW> Your looking at the present and not the future.  Radiation half life
 BW> takes centuries and maybe eons to become stable.  Uranium hurts and
 BW> kills more  people over time than does black lung.

     Nonsense.  You don't really believe this, do you?  Consider, please,
that tens of thousands (if not hundreds of thousands) of people have died
of Miner's Disease ("Black Lung") all over the world since the advent of
using coal as fuel.  In addition, the waste products of coal-powered plants
put tons of sulfur dioxide and carbon dioxide into the atmosphere (creating
acid rain, smog, erosion problems, the hole in the ozone layer, massive
plant kills across the planet, not to mention being the main reason the older
cities around the world look like someone spray painted them orange-gray.
     In comparison, the waste products of nuclear reactors have rarely
seen the light of day, much less polluted it... and even when it did, it did
nowhere near the amount of damage 200+ years of coal smoke does.  And a mere
handful of people have died from radiation resulting from a reactor accident.


 BW> Point, Nagasaki and hiroshima, those that were not killed by the blast
 BW> died from cancer, exposure and other sickness, also people in the navy
 BW> who were swimming in the ocean during the  attack that were in our navy.

     I'm sure they did.  That's what nuclear bombs are designed to do:  kill
enormous amounts of people through radiation and fallout.  However, what in
the world does this have to do with nuclear reactors?  Reactors are not
nuclear bombs, and your insistence on comparing apples to oranges makes your
argument even weaker than it started out to be.

     Jack Butler



... If dogs had catapults, would cats be safe in trees?
--- Blue Wave/DOS v2.20 [NR]
 * Origin: Forethought BBS -=- Orlando, FL -=- 407-679-6561 (1:363/309)

Ä [8] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 49 of 187
 From : Mark Jones                          1:105/302.47    .cê 24 .åê 95 01:41
 To   : Lawrence E Dunlap
 Subj : Gibson
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On (22 Dec 95) Lawrence E Dunlap wrote to Mark Jones...

 MJ> My personal favorite: a high-tech medical emergency kit, complete
 MJ> with computer and headset. When you need the kit, you slip on the
 MJ> headset and turn on the power. Presto! You know how to *use* all
 MJ> that keen equipment now!
 LE>
 LE> However, experiential testing would be required to prove that some
 LE> special dexterity or visual acuity isn't really necessary to do
 LE> surgery on someone who might have some unusual medical condition to
 LE> deal with. I knew a guy who was nearly 400 pounds in junior high. He
 LE> was stabbed about 200 times. Most of the probloem in operating on him
 LE> was determining how much fatty tissue there actually was between the
 LE> surgeon and the serious parts of the wound.
 LE>
 LE> Took 14 hours to finish that emergency surgery. He was about 200
 LE> pounds lighter. In an emergency, would *you* have the endurance for a
 LE> field medical stimkit's directions to remove several hundred pounds of
 LE> adipose tissue? Would *both* you anf the patient survive?
 LE>
 LE> Just curious about your feedback.

   ...in which case the program lets you know that this guy needs a
*real* doctor in a real operating room, and you just do standard EMT
fieldwork.  Basically, the medikit (as I envision it) would give you
the knowledge and skills (if it worked that way) of a well-trained and
experienced EMT.  If that isn't enough, well...its an emergency first
aid, and they have their limits.
   The idea is simply to provide medikits that will let *anyone* use
it effectively (barring personal limitations), so that if there isn't
an EMT on the scene, you can still treat people with it.  It isn't a
cure-all, but its better than a couple of bandages, some aspirin,
scissors and a first aid booklet....


--- PPoint 1.78
 * Origin: Folcroft Sanitarium (hsmith@cure.com) (1:105/302.47)

Ä [8] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 50 of 187
 From : Mark Jones                          1:105/302.47    .îí 25 .åê 95 02:03
 To   : Otto Cordray
 Subj : Gibson
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On (24 Dec 95) Otto Cordray wrote to Mark Jones...

 MJ> I would only worry about unemployed steelworkers robbing and
 MJ> killing people to get their virtual-sex fix if the virtual sex is
 MJ> made illegal.
 OC>
 OC> That was one part of what I meant (do you think that President Pat
 OC> Buchanan or Phil Gramm would ever allow such a thing to exist
 OC> legally?).

   They might have no choice.  But even if they outlaw it, they'll be
as successful as are those who outlaw pornography, prostitution, and
recreational drugs--i.e., not at all.  They'll succeed only in driving
it underground.  Anyone who really wants these things can get them.
Virtual sex would be no different.  (Especially since I suspect
there'd be no reason why you couldn't download *.sex files as easily
as those awful GIFs they're worried about now.  This makes it even
harder to stamp out than prostitution or drugs--which require at least
one illicit face-to-face transaction....)

 OC> The other part: even with it legal, if ol' Mr. Steelworker is
 OC> unemployed and he's hooked he'll end up doing anything to "plug
 OC> in".

That may be.  But the same is true now for anything that is highly
desirable (cash, stereo equipment, sports cars, jewelry, supermodels,
etc.).  If we're going to ban things because people might commit
crimes to get them, we'll have to ban money first.

Besides, keeping virtual sex rigs (and software) legally available is
only part of my libertarian agenda.  The other part is making sure
John Q. Citizen can own and carry handguns just as easily.  Which will
dissuade a lot of potential criminals in itself; of those that try to
commit crimes anyhow, a percentage will be killed off--and the more
criminally inclined they are, the sooner it will happen.  Eventually
the odds catch up with everyone.

Sure, virtual sex would cause problems.  But then, everything does.



--- PPoint 1.78
 * Origin: Folcroft Sanitarium (hsmith@cure.com) (1:105/302.47)

Ä [8] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 51 of 187
 From : Brion Lienhart                      1:213/700.2     .cê 24 .åê 95 14:51
 To   : Frank Glover
 Subj : Re: nuclear BS
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On Sat Dec 23, Frank Glover said to Bianca Wesslak:

BW>  being cleaned out by robots due to the dangerous radiation.  Lead is
BW>  the only
BW>  shield that I know of that can withstand radiation, that and

 -FG>   Lead has the advantage of being nice and dense (gold would be about
 -FG>as good), but enough of *any* material will do. Even vacuum, if you're
 -FG>simply far enough away.

It depends. You want dense shielding for gamma, but for neutrons, you need
something with lots of hydrogen atoms like water, or plastic. Distance is good
too, if you get twice as far away you only get 1/4 as much radiation. There is a
measure called tenth thickness that varies for type of material and type of
radiation. IIRC, for lead and gamma radiation it's 4 inches. I.E. if you stick
4" of lead between you and some radiation if you have 100 rem on the unshielded
side, you'll only have 10 rem on the other side, 8" and you'll only have 1 rem.




--- QM v1.31
 * Origin: Ministry of Peace - Carson City, NV (1:213/700.2)

Ä [8] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 52 of 187
 From : Kevin Van Houten                    1:124/7012.1701 .åò 28 .åê 95 16:41
 To   : Aaron Turon
 Subj : Re: Hi!
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.MOOD: Always happy :-)
While shoveling reindeer droppings from the Promenade, Dan Kachoogian
inexplicibly said "Hi!" to Aaron Turon.

 AT>> Hello! I'm a total TREKIE! Does anyone else like it? Please
 AT>> write back!

No, I doubt there would be ANYONE on a Science Fiction and Fandom
Echo who had ever heard of Star Trek.

******* Reprise the theme song and roll the credits...
.:KvH:. EchoOneEyedKlingonBardVolehunter - OMCCR ST:TSG

.!. There goes my people. I have to follow them, I'm their leader.

--- Terminate 3.00
 * Origin: Pointed Haid!  The Colony, Texas (1:124/7012.1701)

Ä [8] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 53 of 187
 From : Steven Wesen                        1:271/236       .åò 28 .åê 95 22:01
 To   : Frank Swarbrick
 Subj : Re: Red Dwarf
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE 1.11+
Ok you asked for it how about Quark??
--- GEcho 1.11+
 * Origin: Time Machine Node 2, Newport News, VA 595-9383 (1:271/236)

Ä [8] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 54 of 187
 From : Eric Reinholt                       1:2604/309      .pä 27 .åê 95 07:23
 To   : Frank Glover
 Subj : Niven, Magic & Science
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 On 12-25-95 FRANK GLOVER wrote to MARK JONES...

 TR> Sure, a few fools will go anyway.  They die, and the collective
 TR> IQ of the human species increases. Think of it as evolution in
 TR> action.

 MJ> Are you sure it was Niven?  I could have sworn it was Heinlein
 MJ> who suggested this.  (He also suggested a solution for the
 MJ> "insoluble"

 FG>    I know Niven used a line very much like that in `Not Long Before
 FG> The End.' with reference to sorcerers dealing with Conan-type
 FG> swordsmen. (Niven was on the side of the sorcerers.)

 FG>    It even has some relation to this thread, as it suggested that
 FG> magic was a finite, non-renewable resource....

 If I remember correctly, Niven also gave us a few examples of
 'logical' spells, low level magic that did NOT strenuously
 drain the surrounding magic.  One was a coolness spell with a
 tiny demon that did not allow heated molecules into a cave.
 Almost a scientific definition for magic!

 ** Eric **

 * OFFLINE 1.54 * "You make very good sharks, Mr. Garibaldi." - Londo Mollari
...................................................................


--- WM v3.10/93-0747
 * Origin: Plain Brown Wrapper BBS-Cresskill NJ.(201)569-6685  (1:2604/309)

Ä [8] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 55 of 187
 From : Eric Reinholt                       1:2604/309      .pä 27 .åê 95 12:18
 To   : Aaron Turon
 Subj : Star Trek
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 On 12-24-95 AARON TURON wrote to EVERYONE...

 AT> Does ANYONE out there like Star Trek?
 AT> Please respond!

 Like?  Love!  I've been a Star Trek fan since birth.  At least
 that's what my parents tell me.

 ** Eric **

 * OFFLINE 1.54 * Eric Reinholt's TECHNOBABBLE GENERATOR tm
...............................................................................


--- WM v3.10/93-0747
 * Origin: Plain Brown Wrapper BBS-Cresskill NJ.(201)569-6685  (1:2604/309)

Ä [8] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 56 of 187
 From : Dan Kachoogian                      1:107/953       .pä 27 .åê 95 14:28
 To   : KEN DAVIS
 Subj : Re: Seaquest 2032
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
*** Quoting KEN DAVIS to Dan Kachoogian ***

KD>
KD>  Maybe they ran out of viewers? Or maybe when they end this
KD> season they
KD>  can't figure out another impossible ending, so they will just
KD> leave the
KD>  sub destroyed. Just like they did the show. :)


I think the ship's computer should suddenly become sentient, scare them all into
abandoning ship with threat of a meltdown or something, and then go off on it's
own.
(Oh, wait, this isn't ST:TNG! :-))


                                                       -Dan

---
 * Origin: The Juice Bar BBS (908) 298-0764 (1:107/953)

Ä [8] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 57 of 187
 From : Brion Lienhart                      1:213/700.2     .åò 28 .åê 95 09:27
 To   : ROBERT LIDGREN
 Subj : SLIDERS/ANY NEWS?
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On Tue Dec 26, ROBERT LIDGREN said to ALL:

 -RL>Has anyone heard ANYTHING about whether SLIDERS might be picked up
 -RL>again?  I've been pre-occupied for the last few months with my ailing
 -RL>Mom but she's out of the hospital now so I have some time to pursue my
 -RL>other interests too.

The last I heard, its supposed to be a mid-season replacement. With my luck,
they'll probably dump Strange Luck to put sliders back on.




--- QM v1.31
 * Origin: Ministry of Peace - Carson City, NV (1:213/700.2)

Ä [8] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 58 of 187
 From : Aaron Turon                         1:137/2         .åò 28 .åê 95 07:15
 To   : Dan Kachoogian
 Subj : Star Trek
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
No, TREK is short for Star Trek.

--- Opus-CBCS 1.73a
 * Origin: Chipper Clipper * Scott me up beamy! * 941-745-56 (1:137/2.0)

Ä [8] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 59 of 187
 From : Aaron Turon                         1:137/2         .åò 28 .åê 95 07:18
 To   : All
 Subj : Star Trek Voyager
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
I liked that episode where Nealix( that's probably spelled wrong, but I don't
know how to spell it) lungs get taken out. There are a lot of other good ones,
so if you know any and would like to discuss with me, just e-mail! thanks :)

--- Opus-CBCS 1.73a
 * Origin: Chipper Clipper * Scott me up beamy! * 941-745-56 (1:137/2.0)

Ä [8] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 60 of 187
 From : Bianca Wesslak                      1:132/152       .cê 24 .åê 95 19:25
 To   : Todd Sullivan
 Subj : nuclear BS
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
From a woman with an overactive imagination.

 TS> Whoa, Cool!  Bianca Wesslak and me are inna cat fight about "nuclear
 TS> BS"!
 BW> From a woman with an overactive imagination.
 TS> That's true, indeed. :^)

 Yeah I know, but it has come in handy;)
 And I distincly said to myself that I would not get into this again.

 TS> TMI had no explosion.  Nuclear fuel is processed differently than
 TS> weapons loads, and uses different isotopes.  No way it can happen

 Than what did happen at three mile Island?????.  Never say Never, nothing
 is ever truly safe.  TRY MURPHY'S LAWS

 TS> The only way that can happen is with weapons fire.

 What about an inside mishap in a nuke sub, I seriously doubt weapons fire
 is the only thing that can hurt a nuke sub, then again they said the Titanic
 was unsinkable.

 TS> You've been reading too many "Bad science fiction" books, going by
 TS> what you've said.  Or people you've talked to who are woefully
 TS> ignorant.  Try finding books by Oppenheimer and others that worked on
 TS> the Manhattan Project.  That'll be a good start.
 TS> Todd Sullivan

 As for the manhattan project, they worked on the A bomb, and I read mostly
 fantasy, and not bad sci fi.  I've also visited a nuclear power plant in
 Maine, I think it's name is yankee something or other.  I do admit to being
 wrong occasionly but my info generally comes from people who have some
 knowledge of what they are talking about.  Besides which, large explosions
 are not the only danger, how bout radiation leaks, how  bout overheated
 water out there killing a fishing industry, etc etc.  nuclear energy is not
 the safest or infalliable energy that there is.

 TS> ... I keep missing Rush Limbaugh.  But with this new laser sight...

The world will be safe again VVVVBG

 TS> -*- ASTG 1.9

 ?????????????????



... What's all this about hellfire and dalmations?
--- Blue Wave v2.12 [NR]
 * Origin: The Cereal Port BBS (OS/2) Rindge,NH 603-899-3335 (1:132/152)

Ä [8] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 61 of 187
 From : Bianca Wesslak                      1:132/152       .cê 24 .åê 95 19:35
 To   : Nicolai Shapero
 Subj : Re: nuclear
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
From a woman with an overactive imagination.

 BW> Your looking at the present and not the future.  Radiation half
 BW>life takes
 BW> centuries and maybe eons to become stable.
 NS> I would strongly suggest that you study a bit of physics.  Do you even
 NS> have

the vaguest idea of what the half-life of a radioactive isotope

 NS> IS?  The

really nasty radioactive isotopes have short half-lives.

 NS> The isotopes with

extremely long half-lives are not comparitively

 NS> speaking dangerous.  Funny

about that...

 BW>Uranium hurts and
 BW>kills more
 BW> people over time than does black lung.

 Actually I got the half life stuff, that I am using for the nuke power
 plant bs from a nuclear power plant guy, allright.  And believe it or not
 I do know what a half life is.  It is exacly that a half life, that when
 the isotope becomes "stable" The stuff we use in our nuclear plant actually
 half long half live, I beliave from my info about some thousands of years.
 I also remember when still in highschool hearing from a physics professor,
 about half lives.

 NS> Approximately 10,000 people die each year due to our current use of
 NS> fossil

fuels for power and for "getting around" in our nice little IC

 NS> engine

vehicles.  Source of this number?  An NSF study some ten years

 NS> ago and more

that my older brother worked on.  The study did not

 NS> include the lives lost

for mining or transporting fossil fuels, by

 NS> the by.  And take a look at how

long it takes for a restricted

 NS> ecosystem to recover from an oil spill, by

the by...

 BW>... You can twist perceptions, reality won't budge.

Yeah and what about japan and hiroshima and nagashaki, there still being
effected, how about since all the nuke bombs being exploded, and the
unsafety ofnuke power plants, every one born today has a little bit of
plutonium in there lungs, among other things.  Nor have I at any point
gone for fossil fuels in this debate, so you can save the fossil argument, I
also don't think that nuclear enerby is such a good idea either.!!

 NS> Yes.  And knowing the hard realities of physics helps you to make an
 NS>

informed decision.
 reality is only a perception that humans came up with, it changes to new
 concepts that we decide are right.  Physics is only theory that a bunch
 of people agree upon, not fact, thories.  highschool science fact, and
 definition between theories, facts, and hypothesis.


... The world: A comedy for thinkers and a tragedy for feelers.
--- Blue Wave v2.12 [NR]
 * Origin: The Cereal Port BBS (OS/2) Rindge,NH 603-899-3335 (1:132/152)

Ä [8] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 62 of 187
 From : Bianca Wesslak                      1:132/152       .cê 24 .åê 95 19:46
 To   : Mark Jones
 Subj : nuclear
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
From a woman with an overactive imagination.

 MJ> @MSGID: 1:105/302.47 b11e2920
 MJ> On (20 Dec 95) Bianca Wesslak wrote to David Durgee...

 BW> Your looking at the present and not the future. Radiation half
 BW> life takes centuries and maybe eons to become stable. Uranium
 BW> hurts and kills more people over time than does black lung.
 BW> Point, Nagasaki and hiroshima, those that were not killed by the
 BW> blast died from cancer, exposure and other sickness, also people
 BW> in the navy who were swimming in the ocean during the attack that
 BW> were in our navy. Evidence the book hiroshima.

 MJ> A radioactive substance can be highly radioactive OR it can have an
 MJ> extremely long half-life.  Not both.  (If such a substance did exist,
 MJ> it would be the ideal fuel source--lots of energy output and usable
 MJ> for centuries.  If such a thing existed, we wouldn't have a
 MJ> radioactive waste problem--it would still be inside the reactor,
 MJ> generating power!)

Granted, but the stuff we use does have a strong half life, it becomes
even deadlier when re use it.

 MJ> Total up the number of people ever killed by black lung disease (and,
 MJ> to be fair, by mining accidents, cave-ins, drowning, gas explosions in
 MJ> the mines, etc etc) vs the number of people killed by uranium
 MJ> contamination.  Betcha I know which number is higher--even if you
 MJ> limit the black lung deaths to the same number of years we've been
 MJ> fooling with uranium....

have I at any point in time sponsored fossil fuels, I'm talking about
radiation not the rich but limited fossil fuel industry, why do people seem
to scream at me statistics of black lung, and coal miner deaths etc etc.,
besides of which radiation is a very subtle thing, and can show it side
effects years later.

 MJ> Hiroshima and Nagasaki were not nuclear power accidents.  They were
 MJ> destroyed by WEAPONS.  Ditto for Navy swimmers on our side at the
 MJ> time.  Friendly fire casualties.  It happens.  Would you be any
 MJ> happier with the abysmal casualties in those two cities if they'd been
 MJ> incinerated by saturation bombing with incendiaries (like Dresden)?

I was using them to point out the problem with radiation, BTW, what is dresden
fill me in.  Actually I would not be happier with the incendiaries, either
If agent orange is one of them, we are still facing problems with that
incident from vietnam.  I believe cancer, birth defects and a lot of other
nasty stuff still go on.





... Slaying foul maidens and rescuing fair dragons!
--- Blue Wave v2.12 [NR]
 * Origin: The Cereal Port BBS (OS/2) Rindge,NH 603-899-3335 (1:132/152)

Ä [8] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 63 of 187
 From : Frank Glover                        1:2613/477      .åò 28 .åê 95 21:55
 To   : Eric Reinholt
 Subj : Re: Gibson
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

ER>   I'm trying to remember a movie where they touched upon Virtual
ER>   Sex . . . uh . . . "Brainstorm" I think.

   That's the one. Lawnmower Man would qualify, too.

ER>   Showed one ill effect of being hooked up into a Virtual Loop of
ER>   orgasm being a palsy.  Kind of a Virtual MS.

   Too much of a good thing, it seems....

   Frank


--- QuickBBS 2.80 GoldBase (Zeta-1)
 * Origin: The Matrix Data Bank BBS, Rochester, Ny (1:2613/477)

Ä [8] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 64 of 187
 From : Piotr W. Cholewa                    2:484/10.6      .åò 21 .åê 95 20:49
 To   : Mark David
 Subj : nuclear
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
   Hi Mark,

following up a message from James Woodcock:

 RL> I tend to look even more seriously at solar power, wind power and tidal
 RL> power as nifty alternatives too.  Giant HYDRO projects simply won't fill
 MD> Solar and wind power have been attempted in large-scale and they are
 MD> failures.
 JW>  Solar power has been used in parts of Australia for some
 JW> years now, and it  is quite successful. Wind power is
 JW> growing slowly as the technology improves,  tidal power is a
 JW> long way behind but moving up fast.

Last summer in Holland I've seen HUGE number of windmills (no joking - the new
ones, consisting only of a column, three blades and sort of generator). They
were working OK. Sure, in Holland they have a very convenient landscape for that
sort of thing.

 MD> Nuclear power is the most cost-effective and nearly the safest.

 JW>  Until it fucks up...look under 'Chernobyl' or 'Three Mile
 JW> Island'

Sorry, but AFAIK they were not "technique" failures, but rather design errors.
Chernobyl is a human error.

    PWC
--- GEcho 1.00
 * Origin: PWC entry (2:484/10.6)

Ä [8] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 65 of 187
 From : Piotr W. Cholewa                    2:484/10.6      .åò 21 .åê 95 20:55
 To   : Steen Christensen
 Subj : books
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
   Hi Steen,

 Steen Christensen wrote in a message to David Hilling:

 SC>> Julian May
 DH>  Good stuff, huh? I thought for a while I was the only one reading her
 DH> work.
 SC> No way, I like her books. B.t.w. I had the impression that
 SC> it was a man, and not a woman?

She is definitely a woman. I've seen her (signing her books) during '84 Eurocon
in Brighton (in Britain).
    PWC
--- GEcho 1.00
 * Origin: PWC entry (2:484/10.6)

Ä [8] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 66 of 187
 From : Don Bach                            1:3632/65       .ÿò 29 .åê 95 11:20
 To   : Aaron Turon
 Subj : Star Trek
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 AT> Does ANYONE out there like Star Trek?
 AT> Please respond!

Most definitely!  I've loved it ever since my Dad let me stay up late and watch
TOS when it first aired on NBC!

My favorite episode is the "Trouble with Tribbles".  When I was studying to be a
civil engineer at Georgia Tech, some of my friends and I saw this episode on TV,
then saw a Star Trek Bloopers clip before the main feature at the Electical
Engineering Auditorium.  Since then, I've noticed a general grinning amongst the
cast during that episode.  It was really a hard one to do with a straight face.

Don


--- Maximus 2.00
 * Origin: No Regrets - Clinton, Mississippi (601)924-8247 9P-5A (1:3632/65)

Ä [8] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 67 of 187
 From : Darre LuAllen                       1:3637/1        .ÿò 29 .åê 95 15:11
 To   : Lori Brown
 Subj : ST Voyager
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 On 12-19-95 Lori Brown wrote to Darre LuAllen...

 FG>    I find that ST:Voyager seems to indulge in technobabble
 FG> more than its predecessors do, but not so much that I
 FG> can't live with it....

 DL> Doesn't it bug you that everyone in a uniform seems to know everything
 DL> about everything, and yet everyone is s'pose to be some find of
 DL> specialist?  They must use some *serious* "sleep teachers" or some
 DL>  such.

 LB> Actually, in the Academy, everyone learns about all ship systems (at
 LB> least a basic knowledge) before they specialize in one department
 LB> (such as Engineering, etc). So everyone would know how to
 LB> run each station and the basics of all ship's operations.
 LB> And depending on their past background (ie Janeway was a
 LB> science officer I think before being promoted to Capt),
 LB> they may have more knowledge in one field than another.

 LB> Adm. Lori Anne Brown, CO USS PAEGAN, Region 2, SFI
 LB> email: Lori.Brown%274@Satlink.oau.org

 Figures a Trek fan would jump on this. <g>  Seriously though...

 I'm a fan a ST and have been since I was a kid.  I just think that
 Roddenberry was a bit of a "Pollyanna."  The only problem that I have
 with the cross training bit is the easy in which security officers and
 ship councilors catch on to the Tech-speck.  In college, you are suppose
 to receive a well-rounded enducation.  However, I know of a lot of students
 who get lost when I start talking about something as simple as Freshman
 Writing.  Sure, occasionally they have one of the characters not understand,
 so that it can be explained for those of us in the cheap seat.

 Yes, Janeway was a science officer.  Tuvok is a super-brain Vulcan (who's
 wasting himself as a security officer).  Torres is a master engineer, who
 knows more about Star Fleet tech than the original designers.  I'll save
 time and not go into any of the others (I'm afraid to attempt the spelling
 of some of their names! <G>)  Anyway, I can understand how some of the
 ideas can be thrown around.  My gripe is at how fast everyone seems to
 catch on.  I'm a computer programmer by trade.  I work with several other
 people who have computer degrees in the subject.  Yet, I have to spend large
 amounts of time explaining what I have in mind for a bit of source code.
 This happens to everyone in my office.

 Another case of over-education is a scene in DS9.  The episode is the one
 with Quark and Rom going home to set their mother straight.  The subplot had
 Sisco introducing himself to Cassidy Yates.  In the scene I'm referring to,
 O'Brian and Bashir are trying to break into Quark's to get their dart board.
 Sisco just looks at the custom built lock Rom had assembled, with Ferengi
 know-how and quotes the Security System and Model number.  This scene was
 played for laughs, but it is indicitive of what I'm talking about.

 I'd love to live in a universe like this, and even empathize with those
 who loose themselves in the fantasy.  (And by no means am I implying that
 you are such a person.  However, I once was to an extent.)  My original
 comment was more of a smart elicked statement.  So now, I've supported my
 statement.  And I look forward to your reply. I hope I made sense...

 LB> ... Iraqi Bingo: B-52...F-16...A-10...F-18...F-117...B-2...

 Been there.  Seen that.
                                             Darre LuAllen
                                             Caught in the Act

 I'd like to end with a little song and dance...

 <2 PHILES ATTACHED--- 1 song and 1 dance>
 download using Imagingine, the imaginary dowloader
___
 * OFFLINE 1.56

--- Maximus/2 3.00
 * Origin: Cumberland BBS TN 615/526-3347 V34 (1:3637/1)

Ä [8] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 68 of 187
 From : Darre LuAllen                       1:3637/1        .ÿò 29 .åê 95 15:19
 To   : Michael Harper
 Subj : Quark
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 On 12-21-95 Michael Harper wrote to Darre LuAllen...

 -=> While shaving a goat, Darre LuAllen told Otto Cordray
 -=> all about SF Comedy...

 Hey...<looking over each shoulder with paranoia> I thought I asked you
 to keep that under your hat...


 DL> I used to love that show, but no one would acknowledge its existence,
 DL> until now.  I just thought that I had been hallucinating.  Now I
 DL> guess it's just a case of "Disco Deprogramming."  Didn't the show
 DL> have a set of twins?  I was five years younger than you when I saw
 DL> this show,  so my memory is not very trustworthy.

 MH> Yep. Trish and Cybil Barnstable, former Doublemint Gum Twins. A bit too
 MH> slim for my liking, but still damn cute. God knows what happened to them
 MH> after the series ended...

 Yep <insert southern drawl>... I remember having quite a crush on Betty...
 Not to mention how I felt about Betty.

 MH> Tim Thomerson and Richard Bejamin have both gone on to other, if not
 MH> necessarily better, things...

 These are two actor that don't even like having Quantom Physic discussed
 around them...

 "Hey guys... I was in physics class today and learned about the Quark." -
 Innocent-Student-Friend-to-the-Stars

 "Oh god..." - T. Thomerson

 "We'll *never* live this down..." - R. Benjamin

 Yes sir, they just don't make cheese like that anymore.  I miss shows like
 "Quark" and "Wizards and Warriors."

                                                  Darre LuAllen
                                                  Regressing to my Youth
___
 * OFFLINE 1.56 * I drank WHAT!?!


--- Maximus/2 3.00
 * Origin: Cumberland BBS TN 615/526-3347 V34 (1:3637/1)

Ä [8] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 69 of 187
 From : Darre LuAllen                       1:3637/1        .ÿò 29 .åê 95 15:25
 To   : Brian Minsker
 Subj : Brisco County Jr.
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
To: 1:325/118

 On 12-21-95 Brian Minsker wrote to Darre Luallen...  (origin: SFFan)

 DL> Well, how about that.  First, I learn that TNT has bought the
 DL> rights to show reruns of Babylon 5, starting in a few years.
 DL> Now, I find out that they will be rerunning _The Adventures of
 DL> Brisco Country Jr._ in January.

 DL> Well, I might start liking Ted Turner yet.  :->

 BM> Actually, that's Time-Warner you're beginning to like. :)

 And here I was trying to find any reason what-so-ever NOT to hate him. :<

 Now I gotta go back to that Cartoon Network approach.


                                           Darre LuAllen
                                           Often Duplicated
                                           but never Imitated

___
 * OFFLINE 1.56 * Only an idiot would go in there...I'd better get started.


--- Maximus/2 3.00
 * Origin: Cumberland BBS TN 615/526-3347 V34 (1:3637/1)

Ä [8] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 70 of 187
 From : Michael Harper                      1:123/10        .åò 28 .åê 95 23:48
 To   : Eric Reinholt
 Subj : Re: Quark
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 -=> Over coffee and beignets, Eric Reinholt told Michael Harper all about
 -=> Quark...

 MH> Yep. Trish and Cybil Barnstable, former Doublemint Gum Twins. A bit
 MH> too slim for my liking, but still damn cute. God knows what happened
 MH> to them after the series ended...

 ER> Weren't those girls "The Bettys"?

 Yep. One was a clone of the other, and they were constantly arguing
 over which was which...


... Why did Shakespeare use so many famous quotations in his work?
--- RA/FD/FMail
 * Origin: The Electric Fox - Memphis,TN, U.S.A.  1-901-327-1008 (1:123/10)

Ä [8] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 71 of 187
 From : Michael Harper                      1:123/10        .åò 28 .åê 95 23:48
 To   : Mark Jones
 Subj : Re: Cybersex
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 -=> Over coffee and beignets, Mark Jones told Michael Harper all about
 -=> Cybersex...

 MH> Agreed. But the ones I want to get my lustful paws on are Kristen
 MH> Cloke and/or Marie Marshall...

 MJ> Uhhmmm....who?  Never heard of them.

 Kristen Cloke is the dark-haired beauty who plays Vansen on Space:
 Above & Beyond. There's something about her that makes me want to grab
 her and run into the woods...

 Marie Marshall was in a single episode of B5, "GROPOS". She played
 Dodger, a Marine corporal who tries to rip Garibaldi's clothes off.
 Later, when she's boarding the ship to take her to the firefight she
 dies in, she gives Garibaldi a kiss that practically melts his
 bridgework.

 The point is, neither of these women is a classical beauty, but there's
 something about them both that turns me on.

 Maybe it's the fire in their eyes that does it...


... "You'll never know what you missed, Garibaldi..." -- PFC Dodger
--- RA/FD/FMail
 * Origin: The Electric Fox - Memphis,TN, U.S.A.  1-901-327-1008 (1:123/10)

Ä [8] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 72 of 187
 From : Michael Harper                      1:123/10        .îí 25 .åê 95 18:53
 To   : Frank Glover
 Subj : Robby
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

-==> Over coffee and beignets, Frank Glover told Michael Harper all about
-==> Kubrick...

 FG> God yes, I forgot about him. Robby's been *everywhere* since
 FG> Forbidden Planet....!

Well, the son of Robby has, anyway... I think the original is still at
the Grand, and if he is, he's probably in pretty sad shape...


... "Lord, what fools these mortals be !" -- Shakespeare
--- RA/FD/FMail
 * Origin: The Electric Fox - Memphis,TN, U.S.A.  1-901-327-1008 (1:123/10)

Ä [8] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 73 of 187
 From : Michael Harper                      1:123/10        .òp 26 .åê 95 11:58
 To   : Aaron Turon
 Subj : Re: Star Trek
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 -=> Over coffee and beignets, Aaron Turon told Everyone all about Star Trek...

 AT> Does ANYONE out there like Star Trek?
 AT> Please respond!

At one time, you'd have had a bazillion answers before you had time to
blink. Not anymore. New shows have supplanted Trek, some of them very
good; Space: Above & Beyond, Alien Nation, X-Files, and the truly
astonishing Babylon 5. The days when Trek was the only sf series worth
watching are long gone.

For what it's worth, yes, I like Trek. But I like Space a lot more, and
I love Babylon 5.

Does this answer your question?


... "Ignore the propaganda.  Focus on what you see" - Sinclair.
--- RA/FD/FMail
 * Origin: The Electric Fox - Memphis,TN, U.S.A.  1-901-327-1008 (1:123/10)

Ä [8] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 74 of 187
 From : Frank Glover                        1:2613/477      .åò 28 .åê 95 19:51
 To   : Mark Jones
 Subj : Re: nuclear
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

MJ>     I could have sworn I read something by Heinlein suggesting that we
MJ>  stack blocks of nuclear waste in inhospitable pieces of desert, with
MJ>  a
MJ>  fence around it and signs that read, "If you cross this fence, you
MJ>  will die."
MJ>
MJ>     Jack says it was Larry Niven.  I beg to differ.

   I know that in his `A Step Farther Out' column in Galaxy magazine, Jerry
Pournelle said this very thing of nuke waste storage, but I can't say if it
started there, either.

   Frank


--- QuickBBS 2.80 GoldBase (Zeta-1)
 * Origin: The Matrix Data Bank BBS, Rochester, Ny (1:2613/477)

Ä [8] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 75 of 187
 From : Frank Glover                        1:2613/477      .åò 28 .åê 95 19:59
 To   : Eric Reinholt
 Subj : Re: Niven, Magic & Science
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

ER>   FG>    It even has some relation to this thread, as it suggested
ER>  that
ER>   FG> magic was a finite, non-renewable resource....
ER>
ER>   If I remember correctly, Niven also gave us a few examples of
ER>   'logical' spells, low level magic that did NOT strenuously
ER>   drain the surrounding magic.  One was a coolness spell with a
ER>   tiny demon that did not allow heated molecules into a cave.
ER>   Almost a scientific definition for magic!

   And originally thought of by a scientist. It was based on `Maxwell's Demon,'
from a thought experiment of James Clerk Maxwell on a way to beat the laws of
thermodynamics. (Which has been refuted, BTW.Takes more energy to distinguish
hot from cold molecules than you'd get from the temperature gradient you're
making.)

   That's why the sorecerer called in the demon; "Oh Maxwell!"

   Frank


--- QuickBBS 2.80 GoldBase (Zeta-1)
 * Origin: The Matrix Data Bank BBS, Rochester, Ny (1:2613/477)

Ä [8] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 76 of 187
 From : Rene Nieuwenhuizen                  2:512/5.9       .åò 28 .åê 95 14:06
 To   : Aaron Turon
 Subj : Star Trek
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.GIF: RENE
Hello Aaron!

24 Dec 95 16:05, Aaron Turon wrote to Everyone:

 AT> Does ANYONE out there like Star Trek?

Yes, I do like Startrek!!!!
Over here we can see TOS, TNG and DS9
I don't watch TOS very much because I think it's a bit out of date.
But I watch TNG two times a week and DS9 just once. I also keep them on tape so
I can watch them again.
I only tape them on the BBC because the dutch subtitels are a bit anoying I
think :-)
Tell me, what do you like the most about Startrek?

 AT> Please respond!

So be it.


EnjoY!
Rene

--- FMail 1.02
 * Origin: But I _do_ know everything! (Q) (2:512/5.9)

Ä [8] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 77 of 187
 From : Jo De Man                           2:291/1102.10   .åò 28 .åê 95 01:10
 To   : Aaron Turon
 Subj : Star Trek
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Hello Aaron!

24 Dec 95, Aaron Turon writes to Everyone:

 AT> Does ANYONE out there like Star Trek?
 AT> Please respond!

Lots of people do (& I am one of them..)

        Bye ! ,
                Jo (Belgium)

Fidonet         : 2:291/1102.10
   Treknet US      : 87:6022/9104
      Treknet Europe  : 107:1901/104
         Warpspeed       : 147:1706/200.2

... A man is as young as the woman he feels.
--- FMail/386 1.02
 * Origin: Space for rent (2:291/1102.10)

Ä [8] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 78 of 187
 From : Nicolai Shapero                     1:102/524       .ÿò 29 .åê 95 07:53
 To   : Mark Jones
 Subj : nuclear
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Dec 26 18:02>, Mark Jones (1:105/302.47) wrote to Frank Glover:

 MJ>   Yes, it was Larry Niven who coined the phrase, "This of it as
 MJ>evolution in action."  (In OATH OF FEALTY, I believe.)
 MJ>   That wasn't what I was getting at.

Larry was using the phrase long before OATH OF FEALTY.

 MJ>   I could have sworn I read something by Heinlein suggesting
 MJ>that we
 MJ>stack blocks of nuclear waste in inhospitable pieces of desert,
 MJ>with a
 MJ>fence around it and signs that read, "If you cross this fence,
 MJ>you
 MJ>will die."

I believe Jerry Pournelle came up with that idea.

-- Nicolai Shapero, the Mad Russian Sysop of StormGate Aerie

--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [8] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 79 of 187
 From : Kay Shapero                         1:102/524       .ÿò 29 .åê 95 22:39
 To   : Garth Gilmore
 Subj : nuclear BS
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Dec 26 15:48>, Garth Gilmore (1:250/1066) wrote to Kay Shapero:

 GG>     I couldn't resist- hi, Mrs. Shapero! It's me, Twopaw! :)

Hello yourself!

We just got back to this echo ourselves - local feed blew up for a bit.  I'd
thought this particular thread off topic and warned everybody the moderator was
back, but since he seems to have joined in himself looks like I was wrong.  :->
Such is life.

--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [8] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 80 of 187
 From : Judy Hayes                          1:154/40        .óá 30 .åê 95 14:56
 To   : Myranya Werlemann
 Subj : Re: Personal Favorites.
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

->Quoshara grinned at Myranya, "Don't worry. I'll handle Personal Favorites."

 ->Cursing at a broken Holoprojector Quoshara heard: Personal Favorites.

 MW> Don't you hate it when those things keep breaking down? The worst has
 MW> got to be to hear the Doctor complain until they have been fixed. <G>

Yeah!  And you can't take out your frustrations on him by punching him out!
Well, actually, you can...it just doesn't help.

 JH> Contact Bill Hedrick over on the Klingon Echo, if you get that.  Oh,
 JH> or on the DS9 Echo...I know you get that one.  He's got great ideas on
 JH> keeping cool - plus, I happen to know that he just recently did
 JH> Cardassian make-up for someone.  I'm sure he would be happy to help you
 JH> with that as well.

 MW> Alright, I'll ask him. I might try to find someone here to do the
 MW> actual make-up, though. I am rather small and it'll probably be
 MW> better if it could really get fitted to suit me.

Yes...It *would* be rather hard to have Bill help you as he is in Minneapolis
and you are in....er...another country all together, eh?

 MW> The hardest thing I
 MW> think is to blend the edges. In front of the mirror it'll look all
 MW> good, then after about an hour, the stuff on the applications dries
 MW> to a different color than the stuff on the skin. :-(

There's got to be a way to correct that...How do you do it with your Klingon
headpiece?

 JH> I can relate to that...mine have hidden jewelry, pill bottles, every
 JH> pen or pencil I own and all my socks - but I love them any way. <BG>

 MW> Yeah, I just don't like it when he hides stuff I desperately need
 MW> _now_! <G> He hasn't been hiding as many things, lately. I gues I
 MW> should knock on wood now. <knock, knock>

Nah...that won't work.  Gotta knock on *his* head instead. <g>  He's
probably just waiting untill you're not paying attention and then he'll hide
something *really* important....like your payroll check.

 JH> Been there, done that too.....but I'm old now.  Can't get through a
 JH> whole  weekend with only 5 hours of sleep and nothing to eat but tea
 JH> and  "Ding Dongs" any more.

 MW> It wears me out as well. I wouldn't want to try it every week. Still,
 MW> once I am there it just kind of happens. And yeah, I'm dead on
 MW> Monday, but that's just another day after the Con, so what the hey.

 <G>

Hey, tired or dead I can handle...but now it actually seems to make me sick
and gives me the caffiene shakes...can't deal with that.

 MW> [backward con]
 MW> it. Anyway, it will have been lots of fun, if we don't/didn't get all
 MW> mixed up in the time table... <BG>
 JH> Okay.... <g>
 MW> I'll let you know some time how it worked out/is (was?) going to have
 MW> worked out... eh...

Uhhhh....okay...

 JH> ... A stich in time saves nine, but does that include temporal
 JH> anomolies? -!-

 MW> I would say you would have to be late, when dealing with temporal
 MW> anomalies, so that you are really even earlier, and... Aargghh!

My brain hurts!!!

      --Quoshara


... OPERATOR! Trace this call and tell me where I am.
---
 * Origin: Anonymous BBS -=- Non plus Ultra -=- 414-251-2580 (1:154/40)

Ä [8] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 81 of 187
 From : Christopher Lee                     1:387/31.50     .óá 30 .åê 95 00:33
 To   : All
 Subj : Space A&B *spoiler* River of Stars
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 "The River of Stars"   * spoiler *

 (To see the rest of this message hit 'page down')



















 Anyone willing to weigh in with their Guess, as to Who sent
 the messages to our heros of the 58th.

 rouge/pacifist  Chigs
 AI's
 Friendly Listening Post
 GOD
 The Federation  ;-)
 Another Alien race/intelegence

 IMHO, Its time they introduced the Alien race that scared the Chigs into
 attacking us.  If the Chigs thought we were just Vermin they would
 have just droped a couple of Planet Crackers on us.

hang'n loose...
                                     CHL

... - DO NOT Adjust Your Mind - The Fault is with Reality.

--- PPoint 1.98
 * Origin:     Past the Point of Insanity (1:387/31.50)

Ä [8] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 82 of 187
 From : Matthew Portiss                     1:374/98        .ÿò 29 .åê 95 19:44
 To   : All
 Subj : 49ers
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE/32 1.2
I don't like pro sports much , thoug, I do like the 49ers, I think they are
cool.
Tacos  Nachos  Burritos  Belgrande  Tostada  Roadkill
 * Origin: SCAM  (1:374/98)

Ä [8] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 83 of 187
 From : Aaron Turon                         1:137/2         .óá 30 .åê 95 06:28
 To   : Eric Reinholt
 Subj : Re: Star Trek
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Well then, let's talk about some episodes and/or movies! :) See Ya!

--- Opus-CBCS 1.73a
 * Origin: Chipper Clipper * Scott me up beamy! * 941-745-56 (1:137/2.0)

Ä [8] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 84 of 187
 From : Brandon Wolgast                     1:363/216       .óá 30 .åê 95 12:52
 To   : Mark Jones
 Subj : Cybersex
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: HyperMail! v1.21 94-0049

MJ> MH>  MJ> [As a completely irrelevant and sexist comment in passing:  Cindy
MJ> MH>  MJ> or Claudia would okay, I guess.  But for my tastes, Joan Chen or
MJ> MH>  MJ> Barbara Carrera are the ones to watch for.]
MJ> MH>
MJ> MH> Agreed. But the ones I want to get my lustful paws on are Kristen
MJ> MH> Cloke and/or Marie Marshall...

MJ>Uhhmmm....who?  Never heard of them.

Kristen Cloke is the woman from Space: Above and Beyond, I also don't
know who Marie Marshall is.

---
 * OLX 2.1 TD * Hello, I am part number ||#||||#||#||#||

--- HyperMail! v1.21
 * Origin: Data Systems Internat'l (407)292-8009 Call Today! (1:363/216)

Ä [8] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 85 of 187
 From : Len Lekx                            1:250/224.171   .ÿò 29 .åê 95 11:22
 To   : Mark Jones
 Subj : nuclear
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Hello Mark,
 In a message dated 26 Dec 95 you wrote to Frank Glover :

 MJ>   I could have sworn I read something by Heinlein suggesting that we
 MJ> stack blocks of nuclear waste in inhospitable pieces of desert, with a
 MJ> fence around it and signs that read, "If you cross this fence, you will
 MJ> die."
 MJ>   Jack says it was Larry Niven.  I beg to differ.

    Lots of writers have used that idea.  Jerry Pournelle used it in a few of
his articles about energy, resources, and Doom.

    (`Course, Larry and Jerry collaborate on quite a few stories, so it's no
surprise that they share similar ideals...  ^_^)

     Later!

          Len Lekx


... A gentleman is one who doesn't demand a Lady prove that she is.

--- Mail Manager 1.1x/n
 * Origin: The Angels' Haven - Richmond Hill, ON (1:250/224.171@fidonet)

Ä [8] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 86 of 187
 From : Phill Ash                           1:275/160       .óá 30 .åê 95 07:48
 To   : Robert Lidgren
 Subj : SLIDERS/ANY NEWS?
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE 1.11+
From astride a Pale Horse, ùANATúô heard...

 RL> Has anyone heard ANYTHING about whether SLIDERS might be picked up
 RL> again?

        Yes and Yes...

                It's due as a mid-season replacement on Fox (again)


Your pal:  PhlAsh
... While a bird called Buzzardo rattled the bones he picked the flesh from
---
 * The Korova Milkbar *
~~~ ReneWave v1.01 [NR]
--- Smile :)
 * Origin: * The Beast's Lair * (804)498-3070 * Va Beach VA * (1:275/160)

Ä [8] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 87 of 187
 From : Nicolai Shapero                     1:102/524       .óá 30 .åê 95 06:28
 To   : Bianca Wesslak
 Subj : nuclear BS
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Dec 24 19:25>, Bianca Wesslak (1:132/152) wrote to Todd Sullivan:

 TS> TMI had no explosion.  Nuclear fuel is processed differently than
 TS> weapons loads, and uses different isotopes.  No way it can happen
 BW> Than what did happen at three mile Island?????.  Never say
 BW>Never, nothing
 BW> is ever truly safe.  TRY MURPHY'S LAWS

Nothing is ever totally safe -- but nuclear power is a good deal safer than
fossil fuel power.

 BW> fantasy, and not bad sci fi.  I've also visited a nuclear power
 BW>plant in
 BW> Maine, I think it's name is yankee something or other.  I do
 BW>admit to being
 BW> wrong occasionly but my info generally comes from people who
 BW>have some
 BW> knowledge of what they are talking about.  Besides which, large
 BW>explosions
 BW> are not the only danger, how bout radiation leaks, how  bout
 BW>overheated
 BW> water out there killing a fishing industry, etc etc.  nuclear
 BW>energy is not
 BW> the safest or infalliable energy that there is.

I would suggest that you go to primary sources, rather than getting your
information from ill informed sources who have serious axes to grind.

1.  Radiation leakage is a possibility in some plant designs (one of our real
problems is that most of the US plants were "one up" designs -- no attempt at
finding a single solution and going with it).  It is not a serious problem,
however (note that there have been no serious incidents in the US, despite quite
a few plant-years of operation).

2.  "Overheated water out there killing a fishing industry."  Sorry, doesn't
wash at all.  Heat the water and more life forms get in to the "plume".
'Course, some of 'em die, but the biomass increases.  Think of it as evolution
in action.

3.  No one has claimed that nuclear power is totally risk free.  It has,
however, been demonstrated to be safer than anything else we've got.

Before you scream about Chernobyl (in re item 3 above) I would point out that
the general lack of ecological common sense in the former Soviet Union produced
far worse (and also widespread) problems with non-nuclear power sources (and
with other production related pollution).  Magnitogorsk is a mess -- not because
of nuclear power, but because of the poorly designed steel mills (biggest mills
on the ruddy planet, IIRC).  Compared to the problems they've generated through
other means, the radioactivity problems the former Soviets generated are minor,
lord help us.

-- Nicolai Shapero, the Mad Russian Sysop of StormGate Aerie

--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [8] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 88 of 187
 From : Nicolai Shapero                     1:102/524       .óá 30 .åê 95 06:38
 To   : Bianca Wesslak
 Subj : Re: nuclear
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Dec 24 19:35>, Bianca Wesslak (1:132/152) wrote to Nicolai Shapero:

 BW>From a woman with an overactive imagination.
 BW> Your looking at the present and not the future.  Radiation half
 BW>life takes
 BW> centuries and maybe eons to become stable.
 NS> I would strongly suggest that you study a bit of physics.  Do you even
 NS> have
 BW>the vaguest idea of what the half-life of a radioactive isotope
 NS> IS?  The
 BW>really nasty radioactive isotopes have short half-lives.
 NS> The isotopes with
 BW>extremely long half-lives are not comparitively
 NS> speaking dangerous.  Funny
 BW>about that...
 BW>Uranium hurts and
 BW>kills more
 BW> people over time than does black lung.
 BW> Actually I got the half life stuff, that I am using for the nuke
 BW>power
 BW> plant bs from a nuclear power plant guy, allright.  And believe
 BW>it or not
 BW> I do know what a half life is.  It is exacly that a half life,
 BW>that when
 BW> the isotope becomes "stable"

You have just demonstrated that you do not know what a half-life is.  After one
half-life period, half of the radioactive atoms in a given sample will have
decayed (possibly to other radioactive atoms).  If you start with a really
hellish brew, it will take more than one half-life period for it to become
safely approachable.  The isotope NEVER becomes stable.  It's just that, over
time, enough of the atoms in a given sample will decay that the radiation
produced by that given sample drops to a "safe" level.

 BW>The stuff we use in our nuclear
 BW>plant actually
 BW> half long half live, I beliave from my info about some thousands
 BW>of years.

Isotopes with long half-lives are less dangerous than those with short
half-lives (all other factors being equal).  Plutonium (which is what I'll wager
you're thinking of) is highly toxic as well as being radioactive.

 BW>... You can twist perceptions, reality won't budge.
 BW>Yeah and what about japan and hiroshima and nagashaki, there
 BW>still being
 BW>effected, how about since all the nuke bombs being exploded, and
 BW>the
 BW>unsafety ofnuke power plants, every one born today has a little
 BW>bit of
 BW>plutonium in there lungs, among other things.

If everyone born today had plutonium in their lungs, everyone born today would
be dead shortly after birth.  Your "factoid" is utter and total horse hockey.

Next, what do the long term effects of a weapon system have to do with whether a
power system is relatively safe or not?  The ambient radiation levels in
Hiroshima and Nagasaki are currently at normal levels -- any radiation related
deaths that are being recorded at this late date are the result of radiation
exposures on 6 August 1945, 9 August 1945 or shortly thereafter.

 BW>Nor have I at any
 BW>point
 BW>gone for fossil fuels in this debate, so you can save the fossil
 BW>argument, I
 BW>also don't think that nuclear enerby is such a good idea
 BW>either.!!

I suggest that you come back to reality.  The current civilization requires
electric power (and lots of it) to survive.  We either get it from fossil fuels
or nuclear.  The US has decided to go fossil fuel (construction of new nuclear
power plants was effectively halted in this country some time ago).  I think
it's a bad call, myself.

And by the by, geothermal, wind, and solar are not viable alternative sources of
power.

 BW> concepts that we decide are right.  Physics is only theory that
 BW>a bunch
 BW> of people agree upon, not fact, thories.  highschool science
 BW>fact, and
 BW> definition between theories, facts, and hypothesis.

In that sense, there are no facts, only agreed upon theories.  But I'll still
bet on rocks falling down rather than up...

-- Nicolai Shapero, the Mad Russian Sysop of StormGate Aerie

--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [8] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 89 of 187
 From : Nicolai Shapero                     1:102/524       .óá 30 .åê 95 06:50
 To   : Bianca Wesslak
 Subj : nuclear
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Dec 24 19:46>, Bianca Wesslak (1:132/152) wrote to Mark Jones:

 BW>Granted, but the stuff we use does have a strong half life, it
 BW>becomes
 BW>even deadlier when re use it.

"Strong half life"?  Radioactives with long half lives are safer than those with
short half lives (all other factors being equal).

 BW>have I at any point in time sponsored fossil fuels, I'm talking
 BW>about
 BW>radiation not the rich but limited fossil fuel industry, why do
 BW>people seem
 BW>to scream at me statistics of black lung, and coal miner deaths
 BW>etc etc.,

Because, my dear young lady, the only alternative to nuclear power is fossil
fuel generated power.  Since fossil fuel generated power is not only more
limited than nuclear but also more dangerous in the long run, most people have
tried to consider the options available to us.  And I, for one, do not consider
a return to the caves an option, thank you...

 BW>what is dresden
 BW>fill me in.

Dresden is a German city that was firebombed during WWII.  It was one of the
first real firestorms that we managed to create.  IIRC, more people died in the
bombings of Dresden than in either of the two atomic weapons releases in Japan.

-- Nicolai Shapero, the Mad Russian Sysop of StormGate Aerie

--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [8] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 90 of 187
 From : ROBERT LIDGREN                      1:134/10        .óá 30 .åê 95 13:04
 To   : ALL
 Subj : NOWHERE MAN
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Some time ago I dropped in a message re:  NOWHERE MAN.

My replies to date:  exactly ZERO!
                             ^^^^

Hmm, I remember this was the same response when I left a message about
X-Files a couple of years ago after seeing the first two episodes.

I wonder if there are even seven of us watching NOWHERE MAN???


Oh well, maybe one of these days someone might show an interest...

Cheers,

-Rob

   ====================================================================
   | Robert Lidgren at: * THE INNER SANCTUM | * The Old Viking        |
   |                    * Writer, Teacher   | * Seeker of the Truth   |
   |------------------------------------------------------------------|
   | e-mail me at------------> robert.lidgren@bbs.logicnet.com        |
   | My Personal Web Site----> http://www.logicnet.com/robert.lidgren |
   ====================================================================
--- PCBoard 15.2
 * Origin: 32 lines 40 Gig BBS, Realtime InterNet SLIP (403)299-9900 (1:134/10)

Ä [8] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 91 of 187
 From : ROBERT LIDGREN                      1:134/10        .óá 30 .åê 95 13:09
 To   : FRANK GLOVER
 Subj : VIRTUAL SEX
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
-> ER>   Sex . . . uh . . . "Brainstorm" I think.
->
-> That's the one. Lawnmower Man would qualify, too.
->
-> ER>   Showed one ill effect of being hooked up into a Virtual Loop of
-> ER>   orgasm being a palsy.  Kind of a Virtual MS.
->
-> Too much of a good thing, it seems....

Something HAS GONE WRONG when the concept of virtual sex rears its
head (no pun intended)...  Seems to me that virtual sex is a
non-starter...sort of like virtual chocolate!

I don't think so!

Interacting with people face-to-face has got to be better than
EXCLUSIVELY meeting people on the Internet or the Fido Net.

Virtual sex - does it lead to virtual families...?

An interesting concept but, I think, distasteful in the extreme...

Cheers,
-Rob
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Ä [8] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 92 of 187
 From : ROBERT LIDGREN                      1:134/10        .óá 30 .åê 95 13:17
 To   : ALL
 Subj : Good Ole Riker...
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Jonathan Frakes (Riker) seemed the MOST disappointed when STTNG was
cancelled.

Has anyone seen much of him at all?  I think I've seen him in

1. Deep Space Nine once

2. Hosting the Alien Autopsy Special

3. Once on Cybil Shepard's series (she turned down his offer for a
   "date")
------------------------------------------------------------------

He always struck me as an actor who took on his role in STTNG
with great earnest and a zest for life.  Has anyone seen or heard
anything else about Frakes?
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Ä [8] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 93 of 187
 From : ROBERT LIDGREN                      1:134/10        .óá 30 .åê 95 13:20
 To   : TREVOR PACK
 Subj : X-FILES
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
-> i am looking for people to talk to about X-files.

I am another fan of X-Files and we appear to be in the same city.

Did you catch the "Christmas" epsiode of X-Files?

BTW:  I have a number of nifty X-Files links on my Web Page.

   ====================================================================
   | Robert Lidgren at: * THE INNER SANCTUM | * The Old Viking        |
   |                    * Writer, Teacher   | * Seeker of the Truth   |
   |------------------------------------------------------------------|
   | e-mail me at------------> robert.lidgren@bbs.logicnet.com        |
   | My Personal Web Site----> http://www.logicnet.com/robert.lidgren |
   ====================================================================
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Ä [8] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 94 of 187
 From : ROBERT LIDGREN                      1:134/10        .óá 30 .åê 95 13:26
 To   : MARK JONES
 Subj : X-FILES CHRISTMAS
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
-> I look at it as an example of blind spots each character possesses.
-> Mulder, who is more than willing to reach for explanations on most
-> topics (Vampires, Scully!  Mole People!  Aliens!) turns out to be
-> rather skeptical about religion--at least, about mainstream Christian
-> religion and mythology.

I wonder which has more veracity?

-> Scully, on the other hand, who always wants definite proof (and even
-> then concludes that, yes, it may have been a blood-sucking fiend from
-> hell--but there has to be a scientific explanation for blood-sucking
-> fiends from hell...) has a strong streak of religious faith.
->
-> What can I say?  Early indoctrination is hard to escape.  The
-> young Mulder saw his sister kidnapped by aliens.  Of course he
-> believes in them.  And Scully was apparently raised Catholic, and
-> some of it took.

Well, I guess the "early indoctrination" line would have some falming in
protest but I get your drift.  Never open a religion thread without
being aware it can result in many different rejoinders.

Scully's last line in the episode about God talking to humans but no one
listening seems to be an on-going thread in the post-modern world.

Spirituality always seems to come back as a topic because people seem to

have trouble just ignoring it or sluffing it off as mythology and

indoctrination.

At any rate the episode was well-executed and did show the comp[lexities
in Scully and Mulder have no real boundaries.

Thanks for the reply.  I was momentarily wondering if people here at
SFFAN were either disinterested in X-Files or moving on to other
interest areas.  My but the NUCLEAR ENERGY THREAD has been busy, hasn't
it???

All my best,

-Rob
   ====================================================================
   | Robert Lidgren at: * THE INNER SANCTUM | * The Old Viking        |
   |                    * Writer, Teacher   | * Seeker of the Truth   |
   |------------------------------------------------------------------|
   | e-mail me at------------> robert.lidgren@bbs.logicnet.com        |
   | My Personal Web Site----> http://www.logicnet.com/robert.lidgren |
   ====================================================================
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Ä [8] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 95 of 187
 From : Earl Green                          1:3822/1        .cê 31 .åê 95 10:01
 To   : Robert Lidgren
 Subj : NOWHERE MAN
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

RL>I wonder if there are even seven of us watching NOWHERE MAN???

  I hope so.  I watch it whenever I can, though I'll admit I haven't
  been able to keep up with it of late.  I'm getting the pilot on tape
  when it repeats on the 8th!  I loved the pilot.
---
 * SLMR 2.0 * LogBook: http://comp.uark.edu/~cbray/logbook/logbook.html

--- QScan/PCB v1.17b / 01-0162
 * Origin: Jackalope Junction 501-785-5381 Ft Smith AR (1:3822/1)

Ä [8] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 96 of 187
 From : Earl Green                          1:3822/1        .cê 31 .åê 95 10:01
 To   : Robert Lidgren
 Subj : Good Ole Riker...
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

RL>Jonathan Frakes (Riker) seemed the MOST disappointed when STTNG was
RL>cancelled.

RL>Has anyone seen much of him at all?

  Yes.  He's directed several episodes of both DS9 and Voyager, as well
  as appearances in both, and is making a lot of noise about lobbying
  for the director's seat on the next Trek flick (though I'd frankly be
  amazed if he got it - no slight on his directing ability, just that I
  doubt the studio would hand a major film over to a relatively green
  director).
       e  <-- Earl Green (earl.green@f1.n3822.z1.fidonet.org) 1:3822/1
       Graphics & animation artist, KPBI Fox 46/15 and KFDF UPN 32/36
       LogBook, LogBook Master Index, LogBook Online Newsletter Editor
---
 * SLMR 2.0 * Who is General Failure, and why is he reading my drive?

--- QScan/PCB v1.17b / 01-0162
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Ä [8] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 97 of 187
 From : Dan Kachoogian                      1:107/953       .óá 30 .åê 95 11:10
 To   : Aaron Turon
 Subj : Re: Star Trek
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
*** Quoting Aaron Turon to Dan Kachoogian ***

AT> No, TREK is short for Star Trek.

Please quote next time. I can't imagine a context wherein I would dispute this.

                                                       -Dan

---
 * Origin: The Juice Bar BBS (908) 298-0764 (1:107/953)

Ä [8] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 98 of 187
 From : Phill Ash                           1:275/160       .cê 31 .åê 95 08:14
 To   : Bianca Wesslak
 Subj : nuclear
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE 1.11+

 BW> I was using them to point out the problem with radiation, BTW, what is
 BW> dresden fill me in.  Actually I would not be happier with the
 BW> incendiaries, either If agent orange is one of them, we are still
 BW> facing problems with that incident from vietnam.  I believe cancer,
 BW> birth defects and a lot of other nasty stuff still go on.

        Cancer, birth defects...
        There all just ways of "culling the herd".  Has it ever occurred
        to you that this planet can only support so many lifeforms?
        War is just a method by which the population is decreased, as is
        illness.

        Call it God, Goddess, Fate or Space Aliens; the fact remains
        that when too many people are gathered in one place, there
        cannot be serenity.

        Nuclear power and nuclear waste *are not* going to kill this
        planet.  Humanity *is not* going to kill this planet.

        The Vogons will...




From the Office of the DeathMaster General
---
 þ DeathMail (ver ü.1) þ A vision of evo-  revolution.
~~~ ReneWave v1.01 [NR]
--- Smile :)
 * Origin: * The Beast's Lair * (804)498-3070 * Va Beach VA * (1:275/160)

Ä [8] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 99 of 187
 From : Mark Holtz                          1:203/1701      .cê 31 .åê 95 23:59
 To   : All
 Subj : Upcoming Babylon Five Episodes
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
(Due to finals, no further updates will be made until after the 15th)

US Air Week      PCode Episode Title
-==============- -===- -=====================================================-
Dec 18-Dec 24 95 219   The Long, Twilight Struggle *REPEAT*
Dec 25-Dec 31 95 221   Comes the Inquisitor *REPEAT*
Jan  1-Jan  7 96 301   Matters of Honor *REPEAT*
Jan  8-Jan 14 96 302   Convictions *REPEAT*
Jan 15-Jan 21 96 303   A Day in the Strife *REPEAT*
Jan 22-Jan 28 96 305   Passing Through Gethsemane *REPEAT*
Jan 29-Feb  4 96 304   Voices of Authority
Feb  5-Feb 11 96 306   Dust to Dust
Feb 12-Feb 18 96 307   Exogenesis
Feb 19-Feb 25 96 308   Messages From Earth
Feb 26-Mar  3 96 309   Point of No Return
-                310   Severed Dreams
-                311   Ceremonies of Light and Dark
-                312   A Late Delivery from Avalon
-                313   Sic Transit Vir
-                314   Ship of Tears
-                315   [Unknown]-Part 1
-                316   [Unknown]-Part 2

BABYLON 5: Episode Information and Spoilers

By David Strauss & Others (dstrauss@netcom.com, replayer@genie.com)

Season Three: I am become Death, the Destroyer of Worlds

  "The Babylon Project was our last, best hope for peace...it failed.  But in
  the year of the Shadow war, it became something greater...our last, best
  hope for victory. The year is 2260. The place: Babylon 5."

  -- Commander Susan Ivanova, Opening Narration, Season Three.

5. (304) Voices of Authority - Written by JMS.  Ivanova and Marcus enlist
Draal's help to attempt to contact more of the First Ones.

6. (306) Dust to Dust - Written by JMS. An addictive drug spreads through the
station, prompting a factfinding visit by Bester. G'Kar reaches a turning
point. Walter Koenig guest stars as Bester. Kosh...we'll see him again outside
his suit in "Dust to Dust," but in a somewhat unconventional fashion....

7. (307) Exogenesis - Written by JMS. Marcus and Dr. Franklin combat an
invasion by parasitic aliens that attach themselves to humans.

8. (308) Messages From Earth - Written by JMS. Sheridan discovers a connection
between President Clark and a sinister figure, leading to a confrontation with
the Earth military. The Nightwatch attempt to take over the station.

9. (309) Point Of No Return - Majel Barrett plays Emperor Turhan's Third Wife,
Lady Morella, a prophetess and seer.

10. (310) Severed Dreams - Major Twist in Babylon series.

11. (311) Ceremonies Of Light and Dark - We find out more about the
relationship between Delenn and Lennier. Harlen Ellison does a narriation.

13&14. (315&316) [Unknown] - Sinclair arrives to try and bring Babylon 4
forward in time.

From JMS....

* There will be an Ivanova romance...but not necessarily with whom you might
  expect.
* Vir is *not* leaving the show. We're making some room for him to do his new
  sitcom; he's in episodes 3 and 5 so far, and more to come, of season 3.
* You'll be seeing more of Zack Allen.
* New characters: well, there's Marcus Cole, a Ranger assigned permanently to
  Babylon 5, played by British actor Jason Carter; we'll see Lyta Alexander
  more this year; and Theo...what can I say about Theo...well, perhaps better
  to let you see for yourself.
* We do plan to continue our practice of getting more ambitious each season;
  we saw virtually none of the homeworlds in year one; in year two we began to
  see more of Narn, and Centauri Prime, with some locations in the latter. We
  will continue to expand in each following year; in year three, we plan to
  show Minbar, more of Centauri Prime, the Narn homeworld, Earth and *maybe*
  the Vorlon homeworld, if I can figure out how to do it at this stage without
  totally imploding the show. New sets: yes, and we're creating situations in
  which we can see more of Earth, Mars, our other local planets, plus Narn,
  Centauri, Minbari and one other major world. As the Shadow War cranks into
  gear, you're going to need a place to meet in security and plan for it, so
  we're also building that. We'll see more of Draal's place on Epsilon 3.  And
  there's one other major set that we'll see in the first episode, and quite a
  bit thereafter. We'll see Minbar at least once in year three, perhaps more.
  We'll see more of the Epsilon 3 complex this coming season, yes.
* What's great is that this season, we haven't had one single episode on the
  level of War Prayer or Infection or Grail, some of our weaker first season
  eps.  The worst we've done is pretty darned good. What we're now working for
  in year three is that they're all better than that at their baseline rating.
  And so far, they're killer . . .  We're also doing some major EFX blow-outs
  of a type other than "they go into space and shoot stuff." Very interesting,
  creative, offbeat stuff.
* Never said the shadow war would be over in one year. Only that it wouldn't
  last three.
* What is the origin of the Human/Minbari connection? You'll find out this
  very season (year three), in no uncertain or ambiguous terms. You're
  assuming that the relationship you saw between Delenn and Sinclair was a
  romantic one. It was a close one, on her part in particular, but not based
  on romance.  We'll explain what that means in year three.
* Yes, the Rangers will play a more important part in year three, and
  Sinclair's part in it will be revealed.
--
David Strauss / dss2k@virginia.edu  <*>
Home Page: http://www.eskimo.com/~dstrauss/
Administrator, New York Islanders Mailing List
The Psi Corps is your friend.  Trust the Corps.

--- MsgPost 1.1
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Ä [8] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 100 of 187
 From : Roelof Otten                        2:282/214       .óá 30 .åê 95 18:18
 To   : Trevor Pack
 Subj : X-files
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Hello Trevor!

Wednesday December 27 1995, Trevor Pack writes to All:

 TP> i am looking for people to talk to about X-files.

Try the x-files echo. ;-)


Roelof

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Ä [8] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 101 of 187
 From : Nicolai Shapero                     1:102/524       .cê 31 .åê 95 11:08
 To   : Michael Harper
 Subj : Re: Star Trek
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Dec 26 11:58>, Michael Harper (1:123/10) wrote to Aaron Turon:

 MH>blink. Not anymore. New shows have supplanted Trek, some of them
 MH>very
 MH>good; Space: Above & Beyond, Alien Nation, X-Files, and the truly
 MH>astonishing Babylon 5. The days when Trek was the only sf series
 MH>worth
 MH>watching are long gone.

In case it hasn't hit your neck of the woods, FOX is going to be broadcasting
another ALIEN NATION made-for-TV-movie...on the 2nd.  Don't know if this will
get to you in time, but can always hope...

-- Nicolai Shapero, the Mad Russian Sysop of StormGate Aerie

--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [8] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 102 of 187
 From : Nicolai Shapero                     1:102/524       .cê 31 .åê 95 11:10
 To   : Frank Glover
 Subj : Re: Niven, Magic & Science
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Dec 28 19:59>, Frank Glover (1:2613/477) wrote to Eric Reinholt:

 FG>   That's why the sorecerer called in the demon; "Oh Maxwell!"

No, Maxwell was the name of his clerk.  The idea was that of his clerk, hence it
was "Maxwell's demon"...(groan).

-- Nicolai Shapero, the Mad Russian Sysop of StormGate Aerie


--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [8] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 103 of 187
 From : Nicolai Shapero                     1:102/524       .cê 31 .åê 95 11:11
 To   : Matthew Portiss
 Subj : 49ers
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Dec 29 19:44>, Matthew Portiss (1:374/98) wrote to All:

 MP>I don't like pro sports much , thoug, I do like the 49ers, I
 MP>think they are cool.

And just what has this to do with science fiction, pray tell?

-- Nicolai Shapero, Moderator of the SFFAN echo


--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [8] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 104 of 187
 From : Nicolai Shapero                     1:102/524       .cê 31 .åê 95 11:12
 To   : Jo De Man
 Subj : Star Trek
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Dec 28 01:10>, Jo De Man (2:291/1102.10) wrote to Aaron Turon:

 JD>Hello Aaron!

 JD>24 Dec 95, Aaron Turon writes to Everyone:

 AT> Does ANYONE out there like Star Trek?
 AT> Please respond!
 JD>Lots of people do (& I am one of them..)

 JD>        Bye ! ,
 JD>                Jo (Belgium)

 JD>Fidonet         : 2:291/1102.10
 JD>   Treknet US      : 87:6022/9104
 JD>      Treknet Europe  : 107:1901/104
 JD>         Warpspeed       : 147:1706/200.2

 JD>... A man is as young as the woman he feels.

If you will look at your message, you will note that, for a single line
response, you had a seven line signature.  While such excessive signatures are
the rule in Internet (where the bill has, historically, been paid by government
or a large corporation), they are frowned upon in Fidonet (where individual
sysops pay the bills).  In this echomail conference, they are forbidden.

Please shorten your signature.

Thank you for your cooperation,

-- Nicolai Shapero, Moderator of the SFFAN echo


--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [8] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 105 of 187
 From : Jackson Raster                      1:3637/77       .cê 31 .åê 95 15:54
 To   : Nicolai Shapero
 Subj : Re: More faves...
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Z'a9As I have said before, my quoting was unintentional...I@# have
corr&ected the problem, and apologized. Many messages back, actually.
Please quit harassing me.YL/g Some of us don't have access the the echo
so readily, and must read these messages by the hundreds. By the time I
read your first waJJ-rning, I had posted 3 messages, and then
immediately found and corrected the problem...in the same reading
session, you warned me twice more, becoming more and more {i
without just cause. I require that you stop this excessive
behavior, and consider reality for a moment before you rant
and& rave. I stopped as soon as was humanly possible.
-JTR
---
--- WcToss for WildCat!  V1.8 [UnReg]
 * Origin: Coles Kingdom BBS 615-657-5708 14.4KBPS! (1:3637/77)

Ä [8] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 106 of 187
 From : Jackson Raster                      1:3637/77       .cê 31 .åê 95 16:06
 To   : Scott Royall
 Subj : nuclear
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Okay...first, put the collectors around the Moon, or some other
uninhabited place...and second, use storage cells for the energy caught,
and shuttle them back and forth...sure, you'll use some of the energy
moving them, but it's all free after the initial investment, so why
worry? ;)
-JTR
---
--- WcToss for WildCat!  V1.8 [UnReg]
 * Origin: Coles Kingdom BBS 615-657-5708 14.4KBPS! (1:3637/77)

Ä [8] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 107 of 187
 From : Jackson Raster                      1:3637/77       .cê 31 .åê 95 16:11
 To   : Mark Jones
 Subj : Gibson
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Perhaps a cyber version  of AIDS, then? <grin> After all- isn't that
what most viruses turn out to be, anyway? And, if you can interface
directly with the human mind and feed it data, why can't you fee[d it
programming- INCLUDINGD virii...;)
-JTR
---
--- WcToss for WildCat!  V1.8 [UnReg]
 * Origin: Coles Kingdom BBS 615-657-5708 14.4KBPS! (1:3637/77)

Ä [8] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 108 of 187
 From : Rhonda Smith                        1:3637/77       .cê 31 .åê 95 23:41
 To   : Dan Kachoogian
 Subj : Star Trek
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
    I for one remember the old, loved "The Next Generation", and watch
"Voyager".  James T. Kirk had a little to much ego, though for my taste,
I much prefer Jean-Luc Picards demeanor.  Engage.....

                                     R
---
--- WcToss for WildCat!  V1.8 [UnReg]
 * Origin: Coles Kingdom BBS 615-657-5708 14.4KBPS! (1:3637/77)

Ä [8] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 109 of 187
 From : Sean Cooper                         1:260/388       .cê 31 .åê 95 21:37
 To   : Michael Harper
 Subj : Re: Star Trek
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE 1.11+
RE: Re: Star Trek
BY: Michael Harper to Aaron Turon on Tue Dec 26 1995 11:58:36

 >  -=> Over coffee and beignets, Aaron Turon told Everyone all about Star Trek
 >
 >  AT> Does ANYONE out there like Star Trek?
 >  AT> Please respond!
 >
 > At one time, you'd have had a bazillion answers before you had time to
 > blink. Not anymore. New shows have supplanted Trek, some of them very
 > good; Space: Above & Beyond, Alien Nation, X-Files, and the truly
 > astonishing Babylon 5. The days when Trek was the only sf series worth
 > watching are long gone.
 >
 > For what it's worth, yes, I like Trek. But I like Space a lot more, and
 > I love Babylon 5.
 >
 > Does this answer your question?
 >
 >
 > ... "Ignore the propaganda.  Focus on what you see" - Sinclair.

 Well, I kinda' like X-Files, B5 sucks and Alien Nation is okay...I guess..
 AND TREK WILL ALWAYS BE WORTH WATCHING !!
Sean COoper

 -Windows '95; get stoned before you install it, the crashes are cool!!



--- GEcho 1.11+ The BEST
 * Origin: Dragon's Cave, South of Texas, NY. 315-963-3389 (1:260/388)

Ä [8] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 110 of 187
 From : Sean Cooper                         1:260/388       .cê 31 .åê 95 21:39
 To   : Rene Nieuwenhuizen
 Subj : Star Trek
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE 1.11+
RE: Star Trek
BY: Rene Nieuwenhuizen to Aaron Turon on Thu Dec 28 1995 14:06:01

 > I only tape them on the BBC because the dutch subtitels are a bit anoying I
 > I only tape them on the BBC because the dutch subtitels are a bit anoying I
 > I only tape them on the BBC because the dutch subtitels are a bit anoying I
 > think :-)

DUTCH SUBTITLES, DEAR GOD, I HAVE TROUBLE READING ENGLISH, LET ALONE DEUTCH...
--- GEcho 1.11+ The BEST
 * Origin: Dragon's Cave, South of Texas, NY. 315-963-3389 (1:260/388)

Ä [8] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 111 of 187
 From : Judy Hayes                          1:154/40        .îí 01 .íâ 96 10:35
 To   : ROBERT LIDGREN
 Subj : Re: Good Ole Riker...
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

->Quoshara grinned at ROBERT, "Don't worry. I'll handle Good Ole Riker..."

 RL> Jonathan Frakes (Riker) seemed the MOST disappointed when STTNG was
 RL> cancelled.
 RL> Has anyone seen much of him at all?  I think I've seen him in
 RL> 1. Deep Space Nine once
 RL> 2. Hosting the Alien Autopsy Special
 RL> 3. Once on Cybil Shepard's series (she turned down his offer for a
 RL> "date")
 RL> He always struck me as an actor who took on his role in STTNG
 RL> with great earnest and a zest for life.  Has anyone seen or heard
 RL> anything else about Frakes?

You may add to your list:

    4.  Directing episodes of both (I think) DS9 & Voyager
    5.  Doing a character voice for "Gargoyles", a Disney cartoon series.
    6.  An episode of "Lois & Clark" - played the bad guy with his wife
        Genie Francis
    7.  Not sure - but it seems to me that I heard about him directing
        episodes of some other UPN shows....could be Marker or Nowhere Man
    8.  I believe he also did a couple of commercial voice overs.

Not to mention going to various Conventions all over the country.  He's been
very busy since TNG ended.

      --Quoshara



... Answers: $1, Short: $5, Correct: $25, dumb looks are still free.
---
 * Origin: Anonymous BBS -=- Non plus Ultra -=- 414-251-2580 (1:154/40)

Ä [8] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 112 of 187
 From : Lawrence E Dunlap                   1:106/2927      .ÿò 29 .åê 95 20:09
 To   : Mark Jones
 Subj : Gibson
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Your clairification improves the discussion. I find your reasoning totally sound
in every respect.

Lawrence E Dunlap
(1:106/2927)
* SPITFIRE v3.5
--- Alexi/Mail 2.02b (#10000)
 * Origin: Computer Living F'n BBS-Houston, TX 713-444-2927 (1:106/2927)

Ä [8] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 113 of 187
 From : Lawrence E Dunlap                   1:106/2927      .óá 30 .åê 95 21:24
 To   : Frank Glover
 Subj : Botched SF TV
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ


FG>I find that ST:Voyager seems to indulge in technobabble more than  its
FG>predecessors do, but not so much that I can't live with it....

FG>Frank

FG>Origin: (1:2613/477)

   Most problems some here have with technobabble is when 20th Century
science becomes poorly expressed by the script writers without very
successful correction by *any* one in charge.

   Some go further declaiming that Science Fantasy has no business on
TV. Several science fiction authors have fruitlessly tried to interest
TV executive producers in scientifically accurate s.f. (the most
recent being Arthur C. Clarke with *Earth2*) only to discover that
US television programmers and programming has viewers conditioned to
dysfunction when any effective and measurable concentration span
requirements is made on a viewer for a time span greater than the
episode of that evening.

   Most American and European SF authors have avoided American
television passionately because of the industry being refuge to
educational dysfunctionals who are so scientifically illiterate they
cannot understand Classical American SF, much less modern SF.

   Most of the remaining problem with technobabble is the perfectionist
nature of the scientifically gifted viewers who harass anyone daring to
suggest that it's "only a show". As if all human progress will succumb
to the effects of Star Trek technobabble! [?}


___
* UniQWK #5136* I always have fun because I'm out of my mind!!!

--- Alexi/Mail 2.02b (#10000)
 * Origin: Computer Living F'n BBS-Houston, TX 713-444-2927 (1:106/2927)

Ä [8] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 114 of 187
 From : Lawrence E Dunlap                   1:106/2927      .óá 30 .åê 95 21:30
 To   : Darre Luallen
 Subj : Botched seaQuest
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Darre,


DL>Doesn't it bug you that everyone in a uniform seems to know everything
DL>about everything, and yet everyone is s'pose to be some find of
DL>specialist?  They must use some *serious* "sleep teachers" or some such.
DL>
DL>
DL>                                            Darre LuAllen
DL>                                            Know-Nothing
DL>                                            Extraordinaire
DL>___

DL> Origin: (1:3637/1)

   Supposedly in *seaQuest* substantial progress in educational methods
has taken place where children born today will be adequately prepared
for the unreal world of 2032.

   For a submersible to be built to the size that is found in that
cancelled program, it would require a economy generating a $40 to 90
trillion planetary GDP to permit such a construction twice.

   Even if we don't crash the shaky economy we run today, some major
breakthrough in technology would be necesssary to allow such a economy
with the developing world being largely like the US of 1995 in 2032 as
it was portrayed in that show.



___
* UniQWK #5136* I'm in a very clever and adorable insane asylum!

--- Alexi/Mail 2.02b (#10000)
 * Origin: Computer Living F'n BBS-Houston, TX 713-444-2927 (1:106/2927)

Ä [8] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 115 of 187
 From : Lawrence E Dunlap                   1:106/2927      .cê 31 .åê 95 22:17
 To   : Robert Lidgren
 Subj : tv and sf
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

RL>-> That's because TV producers make lousy SF. They think that a show
RL>-> will draw a big audience if it has flashy special effects, and big
RL>-> name stars. Never mind that the shows don't make sense, have bad
RL>-> plots, and worse science. If it's bad
RL>-> SF, it's bad TV.

RL>What you say is short but to the point.  I agree with you most of the
RL>time on this one.  What really makes terrific science fiction or fantasy
RL>has got to be excellent writing.  The screenplay.  All the visual
RL>effects CAN add impact BUT IT SEEMS TO ME YOU HAVE TO CARE ABOUT THE
RL>CHARACTERS IN SOME WAY AND THIS HAPPENS WHEN THEY ARE NOT JUST CARDBOARD
RL>CHARACTERS.

RL>I think if you look at the original Twilight Zone series or even One
RL>Step Beyond, there were a number of excellent science fiction stories
RL>and virtually no "whizz-bang" special effects and no colour to boot!

RL>I's say your last comment another way:  Bad stories ensure bad TV just
RL>as bad stories make for bad movies.

RL>Translating science fiction from novels into the filmed format is and
RL>has alkways been a very tough nut to crack.

RL>* Origin: (1:134/10)

   More the problem is the inept execution of executive producers to
detect bad writers and writing and get those writers disappeared from
the show.

   I feel inept executive producers come from the political "incest"
between prodcuers and most television and cinema production house
executives where the careers and productivity of the executives and
producers are explicitly measured by individual production's profit
margins, and where applicable,  beneficial TV ratings

   Most television producers and production house executives chose this
occupational field to intentionally and directly *escape* and everyday
working literacy in the sciences and literature.

   This community has taken any capacity for concentration spans longer
than five minutes from modern TV viewers. Good Science Fiction and
Science Fantasy *requires* intensely focused concentration to glean the
nuances of the story.

   This won't change in the US because meaningful production house
regulation by networks and syndicators is very slight. The regulation of
*networks* and *syndicators* is nonexistant by the US Government.

   The exceptional quality of the British productions is due to
meaningful degrees of governmental expectations that producers will
actually be *educuated* sufficiently to regulate technobabble in *Dr.
Who* without assistance from the FidoNet conferences!

   European governmental counterparts to the US FCC expect--no,
*require*--educational soundness and literacy in the humanities in
nearly every level of television and cinema production to prevent the
production of poorly conceived and poorly produced television shows.

   Producers truly literate in the natural sciences and science fiction
won't happen unless similar expectations for educational excellence is
demanded by viewers and/or enforced by some industry or governmental
body who has the muscle to bring down the dropout refugees who inhabit
the industry today.


___
* UniQWK v4.2 * The Windows Mail Reader

--- Alexi/Mail 2.02b (#10000)
 * Origin: Computer Living F'n BBS-Houston, TX 713-444-2927 (1:106/2927)

Ä [8] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 116 of 187
 From : Kevin Ahearn                        1:109/104       .îí 01 .íâ 96 19:24
 To   : Lawrence E Dunlap
 Subj : tv and sf
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 LED>    Producers truly literate in the natural sciences and science fiction
 LED> won't happen unless similar expectations for educational excellence is
 LED> demanded by viewers and/or enforced by some industry or governmental
 LED> body who has the muscle to bring down the dropout refugees who inhabit
 LED> the industry today.

Yeah, if we could just get rid of that pesky First Amendment, we *could* have
effective governmental regulation of what's broadcast on television.

--Kevin

--- Maximus/2 3.01
 * Origin: ShanErin (1:109/104)

Ä [8] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 117 of 187
 From : Christopher Lee                     1:387/31.50     .îí 01 .íâ 96 16:47
 To   : ROBERT LIDGREN
 Subj : Good Ole Riker...
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On (30 Dec 95) ROBERT LIDGREN wrote to ALL...

 RL> He always struck me as an actor who took on his role in STTNG
 RL> with great earnest and a zest for life.  Has anyone seen or heard
 RL> anything else about Frakes?

 Frakes, Siertis(sp?), & Dorn  can all be heard on Disney's "Gargoyles".

hang'n loose...
                                  CHL

... Modems.....reach out and BYTE someone.

--- PPoint 1.98
 * Origin:     Past the Point of Insanity (1:387/31.50)

Ä [8] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 118 of 187
 From : John Kahane                         1:163/198.5     .îí 01 .íâ 96 10:07
 To   : All
 Subj : Best NY Wishes
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
     Here's wishing each and every one of you a very Happy New Year.  May the
Goddess bless you with Her bounty for this coming year, may She give you your
heart's desire, and may you accomplish all the goals that you set for yourself.

     JohnK
     Happy New Year to everyone! :)

--- GoldED/2 2.42.G0614
 * Origin: JohnK's OS/2Warp Point - Ottawa, Ontario (1:163/198.5)

Ä [8] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 119 of 187
 From : Michael Harper                      1:123/10        .îí 01 .íâ 96 16:15
 To   : Darre LuAllen
 Subj : Re: Quark
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 -=> Over coffee and beignets, Darre LuAllen told Michael Harper all about

  Quark...

 -=> While shaving a goat, Darre LuAllen told Otto Cordray
 -=> all about SF Comedy...

 DL> Hey...<looking over each shoulder with paranoia> I thought I asked
 DL> you   to keep that under your hat...

 Eep. Forgot...

 DL> Yep <insert southern drawl>... I remember having quite a crush on
 DL> Betty...   Not to mention how I felt about Betty.

 You too?

 MH> Tim Thomerson and Richard Benjamin have both gone on to other, if not
 MH> necessarily better, things...
 DL>
 DL> These are two actors that don't even like having Quantum Physics
 DL> discussed around them...

 Can you blame them? <g!>

 DL> "Hey guys... I was in physics class today and learned about the
 DL> Quark." -  Innocent-Student-Friend-to-the-Stars
 DL>
 DL> "Oh god..." - T. Thomerson
 DL>
 DL> "We'll *never* live this down..." - R. Benjamin

 (groan)

 DL> Yes sir, they just don't make cheese like that anymore.  I miss shows
 DL> like  "Quark" and "Wizards and Warriors."

 I know how you feel. Those were some good ones. I got the same guilty
 pleasure from them that I got from "When Things Were Rotten" and
 "Police Squad!"...

 Speaking of cheese, have you heard that TNT is going to start running
 episodes of Brisco County Jr. this month? God, I loved that show...


... "Y'know, I can come back later if you'd like..." --Draal
--- RA/FD/FMail
 * Origin: The Electric Fox - Memphis,TN, U.S.A.  1-901-327-1008 (1:123/10)

Ä [8] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 120 of 187
 From : Phill Ash                           1:275/160       .òp 02 .íâ 96 09:08
 To   : Robert Lidgren
 Subj : Good Ole Riker...
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE 1.11+

 RL> Jonathan Frakes (Riker) seemed the MOST disappointed when STTNG was
 RL> cancelled.

 RL> Has anyone seen much of him at all?  I think I've seen him in
 RL> 1. Deep Space Nine once
 RL> 2. Hosting the Alien Autopsy Special
 RL> 3. Once on Cybil Shepard's series (she turned down his offer for a
 RL> "date")
 RL> ------------------------------------------------------------------
 RL> He always struck me as an actor who took on his role in STTNG
 RL> with great earnest and a zest for life.  Has anyone seen or heard
 RL> anything else about Frakes?

        He and wife, Genie did an episode of Lois & Clark.  He'll be in
        an upcoming episode of Voyager (along with Q)


Your pal:  PhlAsh
---
 þ PhlAshMail 1.0 þ Things are not always what they seem
~~~ ReneWave v1.01 [NR]
--- Smile :)
 * Origin: * The Beast's Lair * (804)498-3070 * Va Beach VA * (1:275/160)

Ä [8] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 121 of 187
 From : Phill Ash                           1:275/160       .òp 02 .íâ 96 09:08
 To   : Judy Hayes
 Subj : Personal Favorites.
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE 1.11+

 MW> The hardest thing I
 MW> think is to blend the edges. In front of the mirror it'll look all
 MW> good, then after about an hour, the stuff on the applications dries
 MW> to a different color than the stuff on the skin. :-(

 JH> There's got to be a way to correct that...How do you do it with your
 JH> Klingon headpiece?

        Paint the appliance with Kryolan "Rubber Mask Grease Paint" and
        the skin with an appropriate BenNye color on a well-moisturized
        foundation.


Your pal:  PhlAsh
---
 þ PhlAshMail 1.0 þ As he looks into the mirror, now he knows
~~~ ReneWave v1.01 [NR]
--- Smile :)
 * Origin: * The Beast's Lair * (804)498-3070 * Va Beach VA * (1:275/160)

Ä [8] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 122 of 187
 From : Patrick Long                        1:271/380       .îí 01 .íâ 96 00:13
 To   : Bianca Wesslak
 Subj : nuclear
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12  94-0096

  -=>I was using them to point out the problem with radiation, BTW,
  -=>what is dresden fill me in.

It's a shame History classes leave out so much these days...

  -=>Actually I would not be happier with the incendiaries, either
  -=>If agent orange is one of them, we are still facing problems with
  -=>that incident from vietnam.

Agent Orange was a defoliant, incendiaries _burn_ - real firestorms.

  -=>I believe cancer, birth defects and a lot of other
  -=>nasty stuff still go on.

I'm sure they do - but I'll wager more from commercially available
fertilizers and insecticides than from nuclear power plants.

Even while working with nuclear weapons, I was exposed to less
radiation from the weapons than I did from a normal chest X-ray.
_Much_ less.  The US Navy's nuclear vessels expose their crews to
_very_ little radiation.  The old Soviet nuclear vessels, OTOH,
exposed their crews to more, but that was due to their lack of proper
shielding.  Built well, operated properly, nuclear power plants are
quite safe.

... A Joint Checking Account permits the wife to beat you to the draw.

--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12
 * Origin: The Gondor BBS, member of Fidonet, the best RPG's!  (1:271/380.0)

Ä [8] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 123 of 187
 From : Longhair                            1:123/569       .òp 02 .íâ 96 06:08
 To   : ROBERT LIDGREN
 Subj : Good Ole Riker...
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE 1.11+

 -=> And ROBERT LIDGREN did express this opinion  to ALL <=-

 RL> Jonathan Frakes (Riker) seemed the MOST disappointed when STTNG was
 RL> cancelled.
 RL> Has anyone seen much of him at all?  I think I've seen him in

    Haven't -seen-, but he is doing the voice of the villian on the Gargoyles
animated show.

... Back up my hard disk? I can't find the reverse switch!
--- Blue Wave/RA v2.12 [NR]
 * Origin: 9 out of 5 Schizos prefer Lunatic Fringe! 382-LUST (1:123/569)

Ä [8] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 124 of 187
 From : Samantha Dobbs                      1:229/610       .óá 30 .åê 95 09:04
 To   : All
 Subj : Space: Above & Beyond
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Are there any fan out there?

Sam...

--- CNet/3
 * Origin: The Neutral Zone...(1:229/610.0)

Ä [8] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 125 of 187
 From : Joel Ranger                         1:256/105       .òp 02 .íâ 96 15:04
 To   : Robert Lidgren
 Subj : NOWHERE MAN
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
> I wonder if there are even seven of us watching NOWHERE MAN???

Yep, I really enjoy the show. Unfortunately, during it's first run-thru,
I missed a few of the episodes....just saw the one with New Phoenix....
boy did it ever remind me of The Prisoner....

What are you thoughts/ideas/opinions on the show?

Joel




... No matter how big a pair she's got, an enemy is an enemy.
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

--- FLAME v1.1
 * Origin: Certa Cito. Lanark County, Ontario. 613-264-8114 (1:256/105)

Ä [8] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 126 of 187
 From : Ken Hawkins                         1:359/530       .òp 02 .íâ 96 13:26
 To   : Jackson Raster
 Subj : GIBSON
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Jackson,

JR>Perhaps a cyber version  of AIDS, then? <grin> After all- isn't that
JR>what most viruses turn out to be, anyway? And, if you can interface
JR>directly with the human mind and feed it data, why can't you fee[d it
JR>programming- INCLUDINGD virii...;)

    Now theres a scary thought!!! I wonder what kind of prophylactic you
would need to protect you from a "wetware" virus? It would become a case
where Brainwashing would be done to protect you rather than change you.
    .


___
* UniQWK v4.1 * The Windows Mail Reader


--- PCBoard (R) v15.22/10
 * Origin: Sasquatch BBS, Terrace, BC (1:359/530)

Ä [8] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 127 of 187
 From : Eric Reinholt                       1:2604/309      .cê 31 .åê 95 09:43
 To   : Michael Harper
 Subj : Re: Quark
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 On 12-28-95 MICHAEL HARPER wrote to ERIC REINHOLT...

 ER> Weren't those girls "The Bettys"?

 MH>  Yep. One was a clone of the other, and they were constantly arguing
 MH>  over which was which...

 HA HA HA!  Yes!  That was it!  I used to love those arguments!

 Thanks.

 ** Eric **

 * OFFLINE 1.54 * Babylon 5 rule #2: NO ONE is what they seem...
..............


--- WM v3.10/93-0747
 * Origin: Plain Brown Wrapper BBS-Cresskill NJ.(201)569-6685  (1:2604/309)

Ä [8] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 128 of 187
 From : Eric Reinholt                       1:2604/309      .cê 31 .åê 95 09:47
 To   : Frank Glover
 Subj : Re: Niven, Magic & Scienc
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 On 12-28-95 FRANK GLOVER wrote to ERIC REINHOLT...

 ER>   If I remember correctly, Niven also gave us a few examples of
 ER>   'logical' spells, low level magic that did NOT strenuously
 ER>   drain the surrounding magic.  One was a coolness spell with a
 ER>   tiny demon that did not allow heated molecules into a cave.
 ER>   Almost a scientific definition for magic!

 FG>    And originally thought of by a scientist. It was based on
 FG> `Maxwell's Demon,' from a thought experiment of James Clerk Maxwell on
 FG> a way to beat the laws of thermodynamics. (Which has been refuted,
 FG> BTW. Takes more energy to distinguish hot from cold molecules than
 FG> you'd get from the temperature gradient you're making.)

 FG>    That's why the sorecerer called in the demon; "Oh Maxwell!"

 Ah, thank you!  Makes the story even more interesting.

 Now this refutation of the theory leaves something to be
 desired.  It should be fairly easy to distinguish if you simply
 set an energy level and discriminate against higher energy
 molecules, no?  Anything with a significant Brownian Motion is
 left outside the door.  Of course, humans would be unable to
 cross the barrier . . .

 ** Eric **

 * OFFLINE 1.54 * Babylon 5 is open for business.
...


--- WM v3.10/93-0747
 * Origin: Plain Brown Wrapper BBS-Cresskill NJ.(201)569-6685  (1:2604/309)

Ä [8] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 129 of 187
 From : Nicolai Shapero                     1:102/524       .îí 01 .íâ 96 07:48
 To   : Len Lekx
 Subj : nuclear
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Dec 29 11:22>, Len Lekx (1:250/224.171@fidonet) wrote to Mark Jones:

 LL>    (`Course, Larry and Jerry collaborate on quite a few stories,
 LL>so it's no surprise that they share similar ideals...  ^_^)

I think you have that the wrong way around...

-- Nicolai Shapero, the Mad Russian Sysop of StormGate Aerie

--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [8] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 130 of 187
 From : Kay Shapero                         1:102/524       .òp 02 .íâ 96 12:34
 To   : All
 Subj : (1/3) Acronym List
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
ACRONYMS (and things that look like them)
(part 1 of 3)

(last updated November 14, 1995)
This is getting too long again, and I don't see enough of the echo these days to
know what can be culled.  Please send me netmail nominating things to remove
from the monthly list (worry not, everything stays in the full list).  Thanks.

This is the edited list; for the full list (including more detailed definitions
and things not particularly current) file request ACRONYMS.ZIP from StormGate
Aerie (1:102/524).  A couple of notes:

The purpose of this list is to provide folks with a place where they can find
out what all of those strange acronyms they see in here mean without having to
write a lot of "What is that?" messages (goodness knows we've enough traffic in
here already.)  Please don't deluge me with obscure acronyms unless they're
actively in use...)  Also please tell me if you see something not currently in
use so I can delete it.

I post this on BOTH SFFAN and in SF - not everything in here is on topic in the
latter echo!

<g>: Grin, <G>: Great Big Grin), <g,d,r>: Grin, Duck and Run
APA: Amateur Press Association.  Sort of like this bulletin board only each
member prints up his/her own comments and passes them to the Official Collator
(or Official Editor) to fasten together and distribute copies to members.  Most,
but not all, appear monthly or bimonthly.
Authors abbreviated: Agberg = Silverberg, AnneMc = Anne McCaffrey, DeJohn = John
DeChancie, JRRT = J.R.R. Tolkien, KMac = Michael P. Kube-McDowell, LWE =
Lawrence Watt-Evans, PTerry = Terry Pratchett, RAH = Robert A. Heinlein,
Xanthony = Piers Anthony
AWGTHTGTTA?: Are We Going To Have To Go Through This Again?  Alternative form is
AWGTHTGTATA (...Through ALL This Again?).
BIP: Books In Print
BLORF: The sound generated by a very large number of EchoMessages arriving in a
very short period of time.
BNF: Big Name Fan
BOOF: A typo for "book" which appears to have caught on.  It means "book".
"Bif", "bhooves" and "bhoven" have been suggested as the plural of "boof",
possibly rotten "bif" are "barf", "bif in a series are "biffies" and so on.
Really LARGE bif may be called "beef".
BOZON:  Described in the Wunderment echo as: A particle which causes large
problems which can often be looked at in a humourous light; most often applied
to computer hardware and/or software, but not exclusively so.  See the full list
for the delightfully silly details.
BTIC:  But then, I'm crazy.  (Sam Tuirel)
BTW: By The Way
CBIP: Current Book In Progress.  Used when you want to talk about the book
you're reading now but don't need an OOTC because your message is already
on-topic.  (Travis Butler)
CHVC: Columbia House Video Club (Mainly tapes)
CHLC: Columbia House Laserdisc Club (Self-explanatory)
DUFF and TAFF: Respectively the Down Under Fan Fund and the Trans Atlantic Fan
Fund (funds to import fen from same for Worldcons.)  A Mid Atlantic Fan Fund for
well known fuggheads is occasionally suggested...
DUOE: Dried-Up Old Eunuch. To quote Jo Peshek "DUOE was formed in reaction to
the claim of one infamous poster who asserted that an adult novel, or short
story, could NOT be believable or realistic unless it had sex in it. Not just
hand holding, not flirtation, not simple attraction, but full-blown (oops! 8* )
explicit, juicy sex scenes. The poster said anyone who disagreed had to be a
dried-up old eunich...several of us disagreed. We do not object to sexual
content, merely disagree that it MUST appear. Thus was born the DUOE and
Pruney...Pruney usually shows up when a member wants to convey shock (or mock
shock). [This :* is a pruney. KS]
ETOL:  Evil Twin On Line.  For those occasions when you couldn't _possibly_ be
saying the things you really want to say... (Sam Tuirel)
FASA: A game company that made a Star Trek role playing game, before Paramount
(or someone) decided it was a mistake and pulled the rights.  AKA F**A by
someone who agrees with Paramount.  I've never seen it, myself, so couldn't say.
FBT: Frigging Blue Turtleoid.  Refers to the gigantic blue six legged turtle
like critter with several people tied to its back which appears on the cover of
John DeChancie's novel, CASTLE KIDNAPPED.  It does not appear anywhere INSIDE
the book.


--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [8] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 131 of 187
 From : Kay Shapero                         1:102/524       .òp 02 .íâ 96 12:34
 To   : All
 Subj : (2/3) Acronym List
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
ACRONYMS (and things that look like them)
(part 2 of 3)

FIAWOL: Fandom Is A Way Of Life
FIJAGH: Fandom Is Just A Ghoddam Hobby (or possibly "Ghu-dam hobby" if you're
into invoking fannish ghods [personally I like The Great Spider or The Church of
Herbangelism - "Praise Herbie and Pass the Buck"], note also the fannish
insertion of silent "h"s into things, such as "bheer".)
FILK: Is not an acronym.  It started out life as a typo of "fannish folk songs"
and was adopted by the perpetrators of same.  So Filksongs are fannish
folksongs.  (for more information ask me via e-mail, or see the FILK echo if you
have it available...)
FITB: Fill In The Blank....
F.U.B.S. (fubs) n. [ F(ido) U(sed) B(ook) S(quad)] 1. A pack of hounds ravaging
the countryside in search of a copy of _A Spell for Chameleon_. 2. A gallant
band of FidoNet readers roaming Used Book Stores (UBS) around the world for
books to trade with others (hopefully that the "others" want, in trade for
another book, money, or gratitude). (definition by Will Purvine) Some notables
include Zane Melder & Travis Butler, but a message to All with FUBS in the title
will probably get you the attention you need. (Term credited to Glenn Chambers)
And special blessings on Travis, Keith Stokes, and Lisa Reeves for the FUBS
t-shirt they came up with.
FUGGHEAD: Fannish term meaning roughly airhead, someone whose head is thoroughly
fogged.  One can also consider the "fugg" to be a substitute for the more famous
four letter word beginning with "f".
FYI: For Your Information
GAFIATE:  Get Away From It All (as in drop out of Fandom)
GIWIST: Gee I Wish I'd Said That
ICOCBW: I Could, Of Course, Be Wrong
IIRC: If I Remember Correctly. "The obligatory statement of modesty before
making a sweeping generalization about something read five years ago."
(credited to Travis Butler)
IITYWIMWYBMAD: If I tell you what it means, will you buy me a drink?
IMHO: In My Humble (or Honest) Opinion. Also IMNSHO: In My Not-So Humble Opinion
and IMOBO: In My Own Biased Opinion.
INPO: In No Particular Order
LASFS: The Los Angeles Science Fantasy Society, which is the oldest continuously
meeting science fantasy society in this world (since Oct 17, 1934).  Every
Thursday at 11513 Burbank Blvd., N. Hollywood, CA  91601 telephone (818)
760-9234.
LLTA: Lots and Lots of Thunderous (or Thundering) Applause
LOL: Laughing Out Loud
MLAS: Mind (or Memory) Like A Sieve (variant introduced by Joshua Kronengold,
MLASBWABHII [Mind Like A Steel Bucket With A Bloody Hole In It])
NASFiC:  North American Science Fiction Convention (aka North AmeriCon)
NECROHIPPOSADISM: Not an acronym, and probably self evident, but anyway a
reference to beating a dead horse.
NESFA: The New England Science Fiction Association home of NESFA Press among
other things.  P.O. Box 809, Framingham, MA  01701-0203
OOK!: This is not an acronym - it's the abbreviated form of Ook ook slobber
drool!"  This started out as "Ook ook!" which Ed Buchman introduced to the LASFS
claiming a strange lady told him it meant "your pleasure centers had been
diddled."  He soon modified it to the longer form.
OOP, OP: Out Of Print
OOTC: Obligatory On Topic Comment
OOTQ: Obligatory On Topic Quote
OYDB:  Over _your_ dead body. (Sam Tuirel)
PJF: Pre Joycean Fellowship.  Steven Brust, Pamela Dean, Emma Bull,  Will
Shetterly, Jane Yolen, and Neil Gaiman and various others who consider that
James Joyce did the literary world a disservice by deemphasizing plot.  To quote
Pamela; " We're a bunch of writers who worry about the divorce of so-called
popular and so-called literary values, and hope to reconcile them.  Some of us
don't really blame Joyce for the breakup, and some of us do."
POV: Point Of View
RAH: Robert A. Heinlein
ROFLASTC! (or ROFLASC!): Rolling On The Floor Laughing And Scaring The Cat.
Originated, I'm told by Pamela Dean, who types with a cat on her lap.  Variants
include ROFL!, ROTFLH and SITCLH("ROFL Hysterically", and "Sitting in the chair
LH").  Also ROFLWMCSOIA (While My Cat Stared On In Amazement), ROFLSHIFOMCASMC
(So Hard I Fell Off My Chair And Scared My Cat), and any number of other things
along that line.
ROTBA: Reality On The Blink Again (scientific inaccuracy or just plain
nonsense).
RSN: Real Soon Now
RTFM: Read The Fershlugginer Manual


--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [8] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 132 of 187
 From : Kay Shapero                         1:102/524       .òp 02 .íâ 96 12:35
 To   : All
 Subj : (3/3) Acronym List
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
ACRONYMS (and things that look like them)
(part 3 of 3)

The Salmon Of Correction:  A useful creature for whapping those who annoy you.
SFBC: Science Fiction Book Club
SFWA:  Science Fiction & Fantasy Writers of America.  Sometimes abbreviated
SFFWA.  Pronounced "sif-wa".
SIASL: Stranger In A Strange Land
SMOF:  Secret Masters of Fandom
ST:TOS, ST:TNG, ST:TAS, ST:TMP, ST:DSN: Respectively Star Trek: The Original
Series, The Next Generation, The Animated Series, The Motion Picture (the first
one), and Deep Space Nine.
TANJ: There Ain't No Justice
TANSTAAFL: There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch
TITLE, NUMBER/BIGGER NUMBER: Not an acronym, but a method of indicating where
you are in a book.  Write the title first, followed by a parenthesis, followed
by the page number you are on, followed by the total number of pages in the
book.  For example, if you were on page 12 of Mort, it would be MORT, 12/285.
Who came up with this is unclear.
TPTB: The Powers That Be
TRQ: To Read Queue.  Also VTRQ "Virtual To Read Queue".
TSTMATS: The Sun, The Moon and the Stars by Stephen Brust.  Good book.
TTBOMK: To The Best Of My Knowledge
TTFN: Ta Ta For Now.
TTYL: Type (or Talk) To You Later
UBS: Used Book Store
WAMKSAM:  Why Are My Kids (or Kitties) Staring At Me?
WIP: Work In Progress
WYLABOCTGWTR, WYLASOMWTC: Would You Like A Bowl Of Cream To Go With That
Remark?, Would You Like A Saucer Of Milk With That Comment?  Created by Steven
Brust (& common in Minneapa)
YAHI, YAMI, YATI: Yet Another (Highlander, Mets, or Trek) Inconsistency
YAWA:  You and what army?   (Sam Tuirel)
YMMV: Your mileage may vary.

----
point of information - a message line preceeded by a > is a quote from a
previous message and not a comment by the current message poster.
another point of information - the moderator of SFFAN is Nicolai Shapero
(1:102/524).  The moderator of SF is David Dyer-Bennet (1:282/341).  The
moderator of FILK is Kay Shapero (1:102/524) (note shameless plug... :->)


--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [8] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 133 of 187
 From : James Walton                        1:129/260       .òp 02 .íâ 96 18:35
 To   : Robert Lidgren
 Subj : Re: VIRTUAL SEX
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 > Something HAS GONE WRONG when the concept of virtual sex rears
 > its head (no pun intended)...  Seems to me that virtual sex
 > is a non-starter...sort of like virtual chocolate!


I have to disagree, considering how many problems in this country are caused by
sex.  All those people out there who were forced to marry a person you didn't
like, just because you couldn't control your hormones, raise your right hand.

 > Interacting with people face-to-face has got to be better than
 > EXCLUSIVELY meeting people on the Internet or the Fido Net.
 > Virtual sex - does it lead to virtual families...?

I recently read a short story about a couple who met, mattied and started a
family via virtual reality.  He was on Mars and she was on the Earth.  He sent a
frozen sperm sample to her when the decided to start a family.  Finally he came
to Earth and met the lady in person for the first time, along with his 2
children.  Things didn't go well. It seems that everyone liked each other much
better when they could shut off the machine at any time.  I found some of the
ideas expressed in the story to be very true to life.

 > An interesting concept but, I think, distasteful in the
 > extreme...

You have lead a very good life.  I hope it never goes bad.

--- Opus-CBCS 1.73a
 * Origin: ConFluence '96:  Return to Mars! (1:129/260.0)

Ä [8] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 134 of 187
 From : Steve Thomas                        1:279/27        .pä 03 .íâ 96 05:34
 To   : All
 Subj : elfquest
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Hi!

   Any Elfquest fans on here?

                             --Steve

--- PCBoard (R) v15.22/M 2
 * Origin: <<*> Blue Powder <*>> þ St. Albans, WV þ 304-727-6733 (1:279/27)

Ä [8] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 135 of 187
 From : Frank Glover                        1:2613/477      .cê 31 .åê 95 21:08
 To   : ROBERT LIDGREN
 Subj : Re: VIRTUAL SEX
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

RL>  -> ER>   Sex . . . uh . . . "Brainstorm" I think.
RL>  ->
RL>  -> That's the one. Lawnmower Man would qualify, too.
RL>  ->
RL>  -> ER>   Showed one ill effect of being hooked up into a Virtual Loop
RL>  of
RL>  -> ER>   orgasm being a palsy.  Kind of a Virtual MS.
RL>  ->
RL>  -> Too much of a good thing, it seems....
RL>
RL>  Something HAS GONE WRONG when the concept of virtual sex rears its
RL>  head (no pun intended)...  Seems to me that virtual sex is a
RL>  non-starter...sort of like virtual chocolate!
RL>
RL>  I don't think so!
RL>
RL>  Interacting with people face-to-face has got to be better than
RL>  EXCLUSIVELY meeting people on the Internet or the Fido Net.

   I understand what you're saying (Cliff Stoll, in his book Silicon Snake Oil
has said similar things, but I don't fully agree with him, either), but
nevertheless, some people will. Some will be perfetcly social people who see all
this as an alternative (not a substitute) to normal human interaction (I've met
a few people I first knew electronically), and some will do this because they
cant't get it any other way. Virtual sex (like electronic socializing) is better
than none at all....

   Frank


--- QuickBBS 2.80 GoldBase (Zeta-1)
 * Origin: The Matrix Data Bank BBS, Rochester, Ny (1:2613/477)

Ä [8] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 136 of 187
 From : Frank Glover                        1:2613/477      .cê 31 .åê 95 21:18
 To   : ROBERT LIDGREN
 Subj : Re: Good Ole Riker...
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

RL>  Jonathan Frakes (Riker) seemed the MOST disappointed when STTNG was
RL>  cancelled.
RL>
RL>  Has anyone seen much of him at all?  I think I've seen him in
RL>
RL>  1. Deep Space Nine once
RL>
RL>  2. Hosting the Alien Autopsy Special
RL>
RL>  3. Once on Cybil Shepard's series (she turned down his offer for a
RL>     "date")

   He did (with real-life wife Genie Francis) a Lois & Clark episode recently. I
understand he may be back as Thomas Riker on DS9 later, too.

   Frank

   (Anyone heard any rumors on the next Trek movie?)


--- QuickBBS 2.80 GoldBase (Zeta-1)
 * Origin: The Matrix Data Bank BBS, Rochester, Ny (1:2613/477)

Ä [8] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 137 of 187
 From : Frank Glover                        1:2613/477      .cê 31 .åê 95 21:36
 To   : Lawrence E Dunlap
 Subj : Re: Botched seaQuest
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

LE>     For a submersible to be built to the size that is found in that
LE>  cancelled program, it would require a economy generating a $40 to 90
LE>  trillion planetary GDP to permit such a construction twice.
LE>
LE>     Even if we don't crash the shaky economy we run today, some major
LE>  breakthrough in technology would be necesssary to allow such a
LE>  economy
LE>  with the developing world being largely like the US of 1995 in 2032
LE>  as
LE>  it was portrayed in that show.

   Why not? I wouldn't make too many assumptions about the design (and in the
case of SeaQuest`II' it would be just a matter of digging up the CAD
blueprints), fabrication and construction techniques available in 30-odd years.
We didn't see much in the way of factories and production lines, so who knows
how much it has in common with today?

   Indeed, all those large, privately owned undersea habitats imply that they're
not outrageously expensive to build.

   (One thing I noticed from the second Back to the Future movie was that
someone must've discovered and been able to produce cheaply those antigravity
devices almost overnight. Most cars seemed retrofitted with them, rather than
having been designed in. And if they can be found in something as mundane as the
hoverboards, it *must* be cheap to make. I'll bet most people didn't consider
that, but I find *sudden* tecnological changs of that sort to be the most
interesting...)

   Frank


--- QuickBBS 2.80 GoldBase (Zeta-1)
 * Origin: The Matrix Data Bank BBS, Rochester, Ny (1:2613/477)

Ä [8] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 138 of 187
 From : Mark Jones                          1:105/302.47    .óá 30 .åê 95 14:48
 To   : Darre LuAllen
 Subj : ST Voyager
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On (29 Dec 95) Darre LuAllen wrote to Lori Brown...

 DL> Tuvok is a super-brain Vulcan (who's wasting himself as a
 DL> security officer).

I beg to differ.  I can't think of anyone else on the ship better
suited to acting as a security officer.  Tuvok is five times stronger
than the humans (the majority of the crew)--and probably of most of
the rest of the crew as well.  He's probably faster.

Assuming he runs true to Vulcan form (and there's no reason not to
assume this), he has an eidetic memory, he's a lightning calculator,
he has an encyclopedic knowledge of his chosen field (for Spock, it
was science; for Tuvok, presumably it is crime, law, security
procedures, background info on all the crew and maquis, the history
and use of most weapons, security tools, mechanical and electronic
lockpicking, computer hacking and security, etc.).  There's probably
very little trouble anyone could try to cause that he wouldn't be
prepared to handle (aside from convenient oversights driven by bad
writing...).

And, of course, there's the fact that being a logical Vulcan doesn't
mean you can't be as cunning and deadly as the next guy.

Imagine a starbase corridor somewhere.  Tuvok is standing over the
charred remains of...someone.  Security guys arrive.
   "Why did you shoot this man, Tuvok?" they ask.
   "He threatened my life and demanded my creditcard."
   "But he only had a club--couldn't you have defeated him in combat?"
   "Probably.  But there was a small element of risk which I saw no
good reason to accept.  Had he defeated me, he would have continued
his criminal career and someone else might have been hurt.  By
resorting to crime in this fashion, he had repudiated any social
contract between us.  The only logical response to his attempted
robbery was to kill him."
   "You had time to set your phaser on kill, but not to take him
alive?"
   "You misunderstand--my phaser is *always* set on kill.  In an
emergency, I can simply draw and shoot.  If the threat is sufficiently
low, I can take time to reset it to stun setting."
   "Uhmm...I see."

   Just because you're a logical Vulcan, you don't *have* to be a
pacifist.


--- PPoint 1.78
 * Origin: Folcroft Sanitarium (hsmith@cure.com) (1:105/302.47)

Ä [8] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 139 of 187
 From : Mark Jones                          1:105/302.47    .óá 30 .åê 95 15:01
 To   : Michael Harper
 Subj : Cybersex
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On (28 Dec 95) Michael Harper wrote to Mark Jones...

 MH>  MJ> Uhhmmm....who?  Never heard of them.
 MH>
 MH> Kristen Cloke is the dark-haired beauty who plays Vansen on
 MH> Space: Above & Beyond. There's something about her that makes me
 MH> want to grab her and run into the woods...

   That explains it.  I never watch S:A&B.  I couldn't get past the
silly notion of aircraft carriers in space (they're even *shaped* like
carrier, big and flat...) and human-piloted space fighters dodging and
jinking in outer space.

 MH>  Marie Marshall was in a single episode of B5, "GROPOS". She played
 MH>  Dodger, a Marine corporal who tries to rip Garibaldi's clothes off.
 MH>  Later, when she's boarding the ship to take her to the firefight she
 MH>  dies in, she gives Garibaldi a kiss that practically melts his
 MH>  bridgework.

   Oh...HER.  I remember her now.

 MH> The point is, neither of these women is a classical beauty, but
 MH> there's something about them both that turns me on.
 MH>
 MH>  Maybe it's the fire in their eyes that does it...

Maybe you just like dangerous women.  I know I do.  (I didn't realize
it at first, until a female friend of mine who knew my tastes in
actresses explained it to me--they're mostly dark-haired women that
I've seen stomping bad guys into jelly in various flicks.)


--- PPoint 1.78
 * Origin: Folcroft Sanitarium (hsmith@cure.com) (1:105/302.47)

Ä [8] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 140 of 187
 From : Mark Jones                          1:105/302.47    .óá 30 .åê 95 15:06
 To   : Bianca Wesslak
 Subj : nuclear
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On (24 Dec 95) Bianca Wesslak wrote to Nicolai Shapero...

 BW> Uranium hurts and kills more people over time than does black
 BW> lung.

Not when it is safely locked up behind the shielding of a nuclear
power plant reactor--rather than lying around in the soil (which is,
if you remember, where we get it from).  And it generates power while
it's there, too!  What could be better?

 BW> Actually I got the half life stuff, that I am using for the nuke
 BW> power plant bs from a nuclear power plant guy, allright. And

It's "BS" alright.

 BW> believe it or not I do know what a half life is. It is exacly
 BW> that a half life, that when the isotope becomes "stable" The
 BW> stuff we use in our nuclear plant actually half long half live, I
 BW> beliave from my info about some thousands of years. I also

Get a clue.  In fact, I'll *give* you a clue.  Do you know *why* they
removed spent fuel rods from reactors?  BECAUSE THEY'RE NO LONGER
'HOT' ENOUGH TO GENERATE POWER.  Which means, in case you don't get
it, that they're not terribly radioactive anymore.  Which is why they
can be stored relatively safely.

 BW>  BW>... You can twist perceptions, reality won't budge.
 BW> Yeah and what about japan and hiroshima and nagashaki, there
 BW> still being effected, how about since all the nuke bombs being
 BW> exploded,

Hiroshima and Nagasaki were destroyed by BOMBS, kid.  Does the
existence of napalm (jellied gasoline used as a weapon) mean that we
should abandon *all* use of gasoline?

 BW> and the unsafety ofnuke power plants, every one born
 BW> today has a little bit of plutonium in there lungs, among other

You're asserting an unproven point (that nuclear plants are unsafe) to
prove the point in question.  That's a fallacy.

As for everyone having uranium in their lungs--I regard this as total
bravo sierra (bs).  You (I think it was you) made this claim before,
but totally failed to provide ANY evidence for it.  Do you have any?

 NS> Yes. And knowing the hard realities of physics helps you to make
 NS> an informed decision.

 BW> reality is only a perception that humans came up with, it changes
 BW> to new concepts that we decide are right. Physics is only theory
 BW> that a bunch of people agree upon, not fact, thories.

Jesus, no wonder you're hysterical.  You haven't got a clue.  Reality
simply IS, no matter what we think about it.  Reality never changes,
only our understanding of it changes.  All the technology we have
today was possible ten thousand years ago--but nobody knew enough to
create it back then.  The universe didn't change; our collective
understanding of how it works--and how to manipulate it--is what
changed.

 BW> I also remember when still in highschool hearing from a physics
 BW> professor, about half lives.

Obviously, he was busy brainwashing you with anti-nuclear propaganda
instead of teaching you about science.






--- PPoint 1.78
 * Origin: Folcroft Sanitarium (hsmith@cure.com) (1:105/302.47)

Ä [8] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 141 of 187
 From : Mark Jones                          1:105/302.47    .óá 30 .åê 95 15:19
 To   : Bianca Wesslak
 Subj : nuclear
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On (24 Dec 95) Bianca Wesslak wrote to Mark Jones...

 MJ> A radioactive substance can be highly radioactive OR it can have
 MJ> an extremely long half-life. Not both. (If such a substance did
 MJ> exist, it would be the ideal fuel source--lots of energy output
 MJ> and usable for centuries. If such a thing existed, we wouldn't
 MJ> have a radioactive waste problem--it would still be inside the
 MJ> reactor, generating power!)

 BW> Granted, but the stuff we use does have a strong half life, it becomes
 BW> even deadlier when re use it.

I assume you're talking about breeder reactors.  The same arguments
still apply--either it is highly radioactive (with a short half-life),
or it has a long half-life and is less radioactive.  It CAN'T BE BOTH
(if it was, it would be the ideal fuel source anyhow and we wouldn't
be worrying about disposal, we'd leave it in the reactor)!

In any case, radioactive materials are less harmful when collected and
shielded inside reactors than if we just leave them lying around in
the soil and the rocks around us--which is where we find them.

 MJ> Total up the number of people ever killed by black lung disease

 BW> have I at any point in time sponsored fossil fuels, I'm talking
 BW> about radiation not the rich but limited fossil fuel industry,
 BW> why do people seem to scream at me statistics of black lung, and
 BW> coal miner deaths...

Because you are a *de facto* proponent of continued fossil fuel use,
since solar and wind power simply CAN'T SUPPORT a high-tech industrial
civilization.  The energy simply isn't available.  So unless you
propose to decimate the human population and go back to seventeeth
century population and energy consumption levels, you DO support
fossil fuel use (and all the deaths and illness it entails).  There
are no alternatives except fossil fuels or nuclear power.

Besides, if you're going to demand an accounting of nuclear power
advocates for possible illness or death it could cause, you have to be
prepared to accept your share of the blame for the deaths and
illnesses caused by the fuels *you* approve of.

 MJ> Hiroshima and Nagasaki were not nuclear power accidents. They

 BW> I was using them to point out the problem with radiation, BTW,
 BW> what is dresden fill me in. Actually I would not be happier with

You were trying to pretend that the destruction of Hiroshima and
Nagasaki was on a par with what would happen in a nuclear power plant
accident.  And that simply isn't the case.

Dresden, by the way, is the name of a city in Germany that was
destroyed during World War II by Allied bombing.  The city was so
thoroughly saturated with bombs and incendiary devices (firebombs)
that a "firestorm" was begun.  The heat from the flames rose, drawing
in more air from the surrounding area, which fanned the flames higher
still....  The city burned for days or weeks, and even people who
survived the bombing in underground shelters died--of suffocation or
by baking to death in the fierce heat of the fires overhead.

The city was about as thoroughly destroyed as then-current
conventional weapons could possibly accomplish.  My point was that
Dresden was as thoroughly annihilated as Nagasaki or Hiroshima--and
that the dead were just as dead.



--- PPoint 1.78
 * Origin: Folcroft Sanitarium (hsmith@cure.com) (1:105/302.47)

Ä [8] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 142 of 187
 From : ROBERT LIDGREN                      1:134/10        .îí 01 .íâ 96 19:50
 To   : EARL GREEN
 Subj : GOOD OLE RIKER...
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Thanks Earl...very good to here about Frakes and his current activities!
--- PCBoard 15.2
 * Origin: 32 lines 40 Gig BBS, Realtime InterNet SLIP (403)299-9900 (1:134/10)

Ä [8] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 143 of 187
 From : The Raven                           1:363/309       .pä 27 .åê 95 12:25
 To   : Mark Jones
 Subj : nuclear
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 TR> Sure, a few fools will go anyway.  They die, and the collective IQ of
 TR> the human species increases. Think of it as evolution in action.

 MJ>     Are you sure it was Niven?  I could have sworn it was Heinlein who
 MJ>  suggested this.  (He also suggested a solution for the "insoluble"

     I took it almost directly from Niven's "A Modest Proposal".  I'm not
sure where else you can get it, but its in either "N-Space" or "Playgrounds of
the Mind".  He offered that as a solution to the nuclear waste problem.

     And the line "think of it as evolution in action" is from "Oath of
Fealty".

     Jack Butler




... "There is no coming to consciousness without pain." -+ Carl Jung
--- Blue Wave/DOS v2.20 [NR]
 * Origin: Forethought BBS -=- Orlando, FL -=- 407-679-6561 (1:363/309)

Ä [8] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 144 of 187
 From : The Raven                           1:363/309       .åò 28 .åê 95 10:48
 To   : Robert Lidgren
 Subj : NOWHERE MAN
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 RL> 1.  Who is this group which seems to want to use any method to get at
 RL> Tom's film and his diary?

     No one is sure.


 RL> 2.  Am I correct in concluding that, at one time, Tom Veil was placed
 RL> in an insane asylum by this group in an effort to coerce him into
 RL> cooperating?

     Yes.


 RL> 3.  Is there anything else in Tom's set of negative that the "group"
 RL> seems to want to get from him?

     No.


 RL> 4.  What role, if any has his wife played in this conspiracy.  I.E. do
 RL> you get the impression she is some innocent victim too or is she
 RL> part of the process of "taking out" Tom Veil?

     She denied all knowledge of his existance in front of the police and to
his face.


 RL> 5.  At any point in the series, has there appeared ANYONE who is
 RL> playing an on-going supporter for Tom?  If there has not, he really
 RL> IS up to his a** in "alligators!" <g>

     No.  He is on his own.  Which is one of the things I find hardest to
swallow about the show.  Any real government conspiracy like this would
simply have popped Vail and stolen the negatives and all of the prints they
could get their hands on.


     Jack Butler



... "I think you overestimate their chances!" -- Governor Tarkin
--- Blue Wave/DOS v2.20 [NR]
 * Origin: Forethought BBS -=- Orlando, FL -=- 407-679-6561 (1:363/309)

Ä [8] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 145 of 187
 From : The Raven                           1:363/309       .cê 31 .åê 95 16:02
 To   : Bianca Wesslak
 Subj : nuclear BS
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 TS> TMI had no explosion.  Nuclear fuel is processed differently than
 TS> weapons loads, and uses different isotopes.  No way it can happen

 BW> Than what did happen at three mile Island?????.

     A leak.  A very minor leak, to tell you the truth.  As I've said three
or four times so far, you'd get more radiation from just sitting in the
capital building.


 BW> As for the manhattan project, they worked on the A bomb, and I read
 BW> mostly fantasy, and not bad sci fi.  I've also visited a nuclear power
 BW> plant in Maine, I think it's name is yankee something or other.  I do
 BW> admit to being wrong occasionly but my info generally comes from
 BW> people who have some  knowledge of what they are talking about.

     Who?  Greenpeace?  ROFL!  I worked for them for a while, until I
discovered that they occasionally "bury" information which hurts their
causes.

     Jack Butler



... "Where's the rest of me?" -+ Ronald Reagan
--- Blue Wave/DOS v2.20 [NR]
 * Origin: Forethought BBS -=- Orlando, FL -=- 407-679-6561 (1:363/309)

Ä [8] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 146 of 187
 From : The Raven                           1:363/309       .cê 31 .åê 95 16:07
 To   : Bianca Wesslak
 Subj : nuclear
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 BW> Physics is only theory that a bunch of people agree upon, not fact,
 BW> thories.  highschool science fact, and  definition between theories,
 BW> facts, and hypothesis.

     Dumb.  Not just dumb, but ignorant.

     Jack Butler



... Dismissed.  I got no more use for you.
--- Blue Wave/DOS v2.20 [NR]
 * Origin: Forethought BBS -=- Orlando, FL -=- 407-679-6561 (1:363/309)

Ä [8] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 147 of 187
 From : The Raven                           1:363/309       .îí 01 .íâ 96 20:47
 To   : Robert Lidgren
 Subj : Good Ole Riker...
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 RL> Jonathan Frakes (Riker) seemed the MOST disappointed when STTNG was
 RL> cancelled.
 RL> Has anyone seen much of him at all?  I think I've seen him in
 RL> 1. Deep Space Nine once
 RL> 2. Hosting the Alien Autopsy Special
 RL> 3. Once on Cybil Shepard's series (she turned down his offer for a
 RL> "date")
 RL> He always struck me as an actor who took on his role in STTNG
 RL> with great earnest and a zest for life.  Has anyone seen or heard
 RL> anything else about Frakes?

     He guested on a recent episode of "Lois and Clark", as well as having
directed half a dozen episodes of DS9, Voyager, L&C, and a bunch of other
shows.  He also regularly does voice work for Disney's "Gargoyles" cartoon
series.

     Jack Butler



... "Ewwww!  Now I have earth cooties!" -- Yoda
--- Blue Wave/DOS v2.20 [NR]
 * Origin: Forethought BBS -=- Orlando, FL -=- 407-679-6561 (1:363/309)

Ä [8] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 148 of 187
 From : Mark Jones                          1:105/302.47    .îí 01 .íâ 96 12:11
 To   : Nicolai Shapero
 Subj : nuclear
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On (29 Dec 95) Nicolai Shapero wrote to Mark Jones...

 MJ> I could have sworn I read something by Heinlein suggesting that
 MJ> we stack blocks of nuclear waste in inhospitable pieces of
 MJ> desert, with a fence around it and signs that read, "If you cross
 MJ> this fence, you will die."
 NS>
 NS> I believe Jerry Pournelle came up with that idea.

   Hmmm.  Obviously, some research is called for.  We now have three
candidates for the originator of this idea.  Jack says it was Larry
Niven.  You say Jerry Pournelle.  I think it was Robert Heinlein.

   Does anyone remember exactly where they saw it?  I don't.


--- PPoint 1.78
 * Origin: Folcroft Sanitarium (hsmith@cure.com) (1:105/302.47)

Ä [8] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 149 of 187
 From : Mark Jones                          1:105/302.47    .îí 01 .íâ 96 12:13
 To   : ROBERT LIDGREN
 Subj : NOWHERE MAN
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On (30 Dec 95) ROBERT LIDGREN wrote to ALL...

 RL> Some time ago I dropped in a message re:  NOWHERE MAN.
 RL>
 RL> My replies to date:  exactly ZERO!
 RL>                              ^^^^

 RL> I wonder if there are even seven of us watching NOWHERE MAN???

   Possibly.  Certainly *I* don't watch it.  But its more likely that
if your message was one of those one or two line "Nowhere Man is cool!
 Let's talk about it!" messages, it was simply ignored.

   When a message like that pops up, it generally gets ignored.  That
kind of opening generally indicates a newbie, and one who apparently
has little to say (else he would have gone into more detail about what
he thinks, and what he wants to talk about).


--- PPoint 1.78
 * Origin: Folcroft Sanitarium (hsmith@cure.com) (1:105/302.47)

Ä [8] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 150 of 187
 From : Mark Jones                          1:105/302.47    .îí 01 .íâ 96 12:15
 To   : ROBERT LIDGREN
 Subj : VIRTUAL SEX
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On (30 Dec 95) ROBERT LIDGREN wrote to FRANK GLOVER...

 RL> Something HAS GONE WRONG when the concept of virtual sex rears its
 RL> head (no pun intended)...  Seems to me that virtual sex is a
 RL> non-starter...sort of like virtual chocolate!

  And what makes you think virtual chocolate wouldn't be a big hit?

  Trust me, I'm a chocoholic.  But if I could get *virtual* chocolate
(it looks, feels, smells and tastes like the real thing, but has no
substance and no calories...) I'd pay good money for it!  Ditto for
virtual fried chicken and virtual pecan pies and, well, anything
that's fun but bad for you.
   Come to think of it, virtual *restaurants* (serving only the
richest, tastiest and most artery-clogging, fat-producing meals) might
be a big trend, too.  And it would a heck of a lot more pleasant (and
hygenic) than the decadent Roman trick of using the vomitorium....

   As for virtual sex--yeah, real sex with a real loved one would be
better still (for emotional reasons, anyhow).  But it beats
self-abuse, and its lots safer than frolicking with prostitutes.
Everybody likes sex (well, everybody but Paula Poundstone,
anyhow[see note, below]); if you're too ugly or asocial or busy to
find a partner, virtual sex is better than taking cold showers, eh?
Besides, the *real* fortunes would be made in letting you have your
way with virtual women you'd never, ever have a chance with in real
life.


[Note:  Paula Poundstone is a comedienne who has stated that she has
virtually no interest in sex.  She's never been traumatized or
anything, she just doesn't care for it.  And since she's unlikely to
reproduce, this attitude represents an evolutionary dead-end, too.]


--- PPoint 1.78
 * Origin: Folcroft Sanitarium (hsmith@cure.com) (1:105/302.47)

Ä [8] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 151 of 187
 From : Ecarey                              1:101/230       .åò 28 .åê 95 12:22
 To   : Robert Lidgren
 Subj : NOWHERE MAN
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
RL>NOWHERE MAN FANS:

<snip>

RL>----------------------------------------------------------------

RL>Now, what I'd like to know is more about the story line to date.

RL>1.  Who is this group which seems to want to use any method to get at
RL>    Tom's film and his diary?

We don't know. Tom doesn't know. It certainly has people _within_ the
government, in key positions, but it's not clear that it _is_ the
government. I'd say probably not, but we don't have conclusive evidence
either way.

RL>2.  Am I correct in concluding that, at one time, Tom Veil was placed in
RL>    an insane asylum by this group in an effort to coerce him into
RL>    cooperating?

Yes, first episode. He escaped.

RL>3.  Is there anything else in Tom's set of negative that the "group"
RL>    seems to want to get from him?

It seems to be that particular negative, but obviously Tom is keeping
safe the entire set of negatives of pictures he took at that time.

RL>4.  What role, if any has his wife played in this conspiracy.  I.E. do
RL>    you get the impression she is some innocent victim too or is she
RL>    part of the process of "taking out" Tom Veil?

Again, we don't know for sure. There's evidence that points both ways.

RL>5.  At any point in the series, has there appeared ANYONE who is playing
RL>    an on-going supporter for Tom?  If there has not, he really IS up to
RL>    his a** in "alligators!" <g>

There is a private investigator that he has hired to track down some
information for him, whom he checks in with [by phone] every few
episodes. The P.I. doesn't know the whole story - Tom's not taking any
more chances than he has to. And other than that, no, there's no one
who's on Tom's side on an ongoing basis.

Aside from anything else, he doesn't want to place anyone else in
danger.

 * OLX 2.1 TD * If this were an actual tagline, it would be funny.

--- FLAME v1.0
 * Origin: Withouta Net - Drop In Anytime! - 617/846-5416 (1:101/230)

Ä [8] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 152 of 187
 From : Ecarey                              1:101/230       .ÿò 29 .åê 95 06:37
 To   : Darre Luallen
 Subj : FAVORITES
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
DL> DL> I   cannot remember.  I'm also a fan of Poe and Lovecraft.
DL> LS>                                         ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
DL> LS> So am I.  _Ia_, _Ia_, _Cthulhu_ _ftagn_!   :)

DL> Poe re-invented the short story.  He may have never have written any
DL> Science Fiction (I'm not sure.  Been a strange X-mas break.), but he
DL> did do some fine horror-fantasy pieces.

He did write some sf, some fairly hard sf for its time, too, attempting
to justify everything on the basis of proven or suspected scientific
fact. In addition, he did, as you mention, horror-fantasy, and fantasy
and what might best be classed as "science fantasy".

 * OLX 2.1 TD * I'm in shape ... round's a shape isn't it?

--- FLAME v1.0
 * Origin: Withouta Net - Drop In Anytime! - 617/846-5416 (1:101/230)

Ä [8] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 153 of 187
 From : Judy Hayes                          1:154/40        .åò 04 .íâ 96 15:31
 To   : Phill Ash
 Subj : Re: Personal Favorites.
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

->Quoshara grinned at Phill and said, "Personal Favorites.? No problem!"


 MW> The hardest thing I
 MW> think is to blend the edges. In front of the mirror it'll look all
 MW> good, then after about an hour, the stuff on the applications dries
 MW> to a different color than the stuff on the skin. :-(

 JH> There's got to be a way to correct that...How do you do it with your
 JH> Klingon headpiece?
 PA>
 PA> Paint the appliance with Kryolan "Rubber Mask Grease Paint"
 PA> and the skin with an appropriate BenNye color on a
 PA> well-moisturized foundation.

Thanks!

Should I be able to find the Rubber mask paint in the same place I buy my
stage makeup?

Can/should this be used over latex appliances as well as store bought
pre-fabricated headpieces?

      --Quoshara



... CAT PHILOSOPHY: When in doubt, cop an attitude.
---
 * Origin: Anonymous BBS -=- Non plus Ultra -=- 414-251-2580 (1:154/40)

Ä [8] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 154 of 187
 From : Rudy Hardy                          2:293/3901.102  .pä 27 .åê 95 12:12
 To   : All
 Subj : Space: Above & Beyond Episode List Wanted
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Hello All,

    Does someone have the episode list of the series "Space: Above & Beyond".
Thanks in advance.


Good Bye,

   Rudy.

--- GoldED/2 2.50
 * Origin: Mon Dieu! (2:293/3901.102)

Ä [8] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 155 of 187
 From : Darre LuAllen                       1:3637/1        .åò 04 .íâ 96 13:23
 To   : Mark Jones
 Subj : ST Voyager
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 On 12-30-95 Mark Jones wrote to Darre LuAllen...

 DL> Tuvok is a super-brain Vulcan (who's wasting himself as a
 DL> security officer).

 MJ> I beg to differ.  I can't think of anyone else on the ship better
 MJ> suited to acting as a security officer.  Tuvok is five times stronger
 MJ> than the humans (the majority of the crew)--and probably of most of
 MJ> the rest of the crew as well.  He's probably faster.

 I never questioned his qualifications as a security officer.  In fact,
 in light of your statements, he seems over-qualified.  I meant to say
 that he would be better qualified for something more cerebral.  Perhaps
 as chief engineer, science officer or even nav/pilot.  Frankly, I'd love
 to have someone with such good reflexes and such a calm mind in charge of
 keeping the ship in one piece.  But, if that's what he wants, then let
 him be a Security Chief.

 MJ> Assuming he runs true to Vulcan form (and there's no reason not to
 MJ> assume this), he has an eidetic memory, he's a lightning calculator,
 MJ> he has an encyclopedic knowledge of his chosen field (for Spock, it
 MJ> was science; for Tuvok, presumably it is crime, law, security
 MJ> procedures, background info on all the crew and maquis, the history
 MJ> and use of most weapons, security tools, mechanical and electronic
 MJ> lockpicking, computer hacking and security, etc.).  There's probably
 MJ> very little trouble anyone could try to cause that he wouldn't be
 MJ> prepared to handle (aside from convenient oversights driven by bad
 MJ> writing...).

 Criminal investigations are a field where command of emotions is just as
 important as command of logic.  How do you logiaclly reason out how to
 deal with a psycho dropping random bombs at random locations? (for instance)
 Oftimes, a gut feeling is all an investigator has to go on.  Can Mr. Vulcan,
 find a substitute for human instinct?  If so, then more's the better.

 MJ> And, of course, there's the fact that being a logical Vulcan doesn't
 MJ> mean you can't be as cunning and deadly as the next guy.

 <Excellent example cut in interest of space.  I heartily refer everyone
  back to it.  It was quite good.>

 MJ>    Just because you're a logical Vulcan, you don't *have* to be a
 MJ> pacifist.

 I never questioned that.  In fact, a Vulcan is not hampered by all those
 nasty human emotions which keep us from killing everyone who truly
 deserves it.  A logical, cold-blooded killing machine, Tuvok could be.
 Quick, someone get an X-ray.  He might have an exoskeleton.  <G>

                                                Darre LuAllen
                                                Still a ST fan
                                                regardless of
                                                other fanaticisms
___
 * OFFLINE 1.56 * THE TELEPATHS WHO ATE MY BRAIN! - (Starring Talia Winters)

--- Maximus/2 3.00
 * Origin: Cumberland BBS TN 615/526-3347 V34 (1:3637/1)

Ä [8] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 156 of 187
 From : Patrick Long                        1:271/380       .åò 04 .íâ 96 16:07
 To   : All
 Subj : Underway again
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12  94-0096
Time to get underway again.  I'll see you all in March.

... I used to be an agnostic, but now I'm not sure...

--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12
 * Origin: The Gondor BBS, member of Fidonet, the best RPG's!  (1:271/380.0)

Ä [8] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 157 of 187
 From : Phill Ash                           1:275/160       .åò 04 .íâ 96 07:39
 To   : All
 Subj : F&SF???
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE 1.11+
        HEY!!!

        WTF!!!!

        Doesn't anyone talk about Science Fiction & Fantasy anymore???

        All I've seen for the past few weeks is babble about the pros &
        cons of nuclear power...

                Who Cares????


Your pal:  PhlAsh
... "Pull him down!" the soldier said, "I'll put an arrow in his head"
---
 * thanatos@infi.net *
~~~ ReneWave v1.01 [NR]
--- Smile :)
 * Origin: * The Beast's Lair * (804)498-3070 * Va Beach VA * (1:275/160)

Ä [8] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 158 of 187
 From : Steven Sullivan                     1:289/34        .òp 02 .íâ 96 15:39
 To   : Todd Sullivan
 Subj : NUCLEAR BS
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
TS> MD>> Nuclear power is the most cost-effective and nearly the safest.

TS> JW>  Until it ***ks up...look under 'Chernobyl' or 'Three Mile

Island'

TS>Chernobyl, yes; TMI, no.  Not once did the reactor core become exposed to
TS>open air at TMI.  Comparing water to graphite moderated reactors is as bad
TS>as comparing apples and oranges; little if any coresponedence.

TS>If nuclear power was so god-awfully dangerous, how do you explaing the
TS>success of the US Navy's submarines?  Don't say dumb luck; you've no
TS>knowledge, other than what those rags have mis-represented; I was involved.

Agreed and seconded.  To bring the subject back on topic, Heinlein makes
the same point in a story where a woman becomes president.  (My
apologies, the name of the short escapes me.)  As an addendum, "JW",
look up the number of people suffering from smog in LA right now, or the
death toll of "yellow fog" (caused by the coal burning plants) in
Britain in the 18th and 19th centuries.  Power comes at a cost, and
although SF can apprise us of POTENTIAL costs, it IS occasionally
inaccurate.  To reference Heinlein again, albeit years earlier, point JW
towards _Blowups Happen_.  I'm a proponent of nuclear power; it's hard
to envisage a future where there isn't nuclear power, and the way to get
to SAFE nuclear power is to work our way through the pitfalls of unsafe
nuclear power.
(This message brought to you from a coal burning town 60 miles from the
Kingdom of Callaway, home of the country's best nuclear power plant.)

ape

--- FLAME v1.1
 * Origin: Holy Bytes, it's The Batboard TBBS - (314) 446-0475 (1:289/34)

Ä [8] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 159 of 187
 From : Bianca Wesslak                      1:132/152       .òp 02 .íâ 96 23:41
 To   : robert lidgren
 Subj : NOWHERE MAN
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
From a woman with an overactive imagination.

 RL>I wonder if there are even seven of us watching NOWHERE MAN???
 EG> I hope so.  I watch it whenever I can, though I'll admit I haven't
 EG> been able to keep up with it of late.  I'm getting the pilot on tape
 EG> when it repeats on the 8th!  I loved the pilot.

Count me in as a watcher, though I do watch it rather sporadically.  I get
to watch it whenever i see voyager on tape.  Do you know what began the show
or, how he got to be nowhere man?


... "All constants are variables." -- Murphy's Law of Mathema
--- Blue Wave v2.12 [NR]
 * Origin: The Cereal Port BBS (OS/2) Rindge,NH 603-899-3335 (1:132/152)

Ä [8] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 160 of 187
 From : Bianca Wesslak                      1:132/152       .òp 02 .íâ 96 23:53
 To   : Phill Ash
 Subj : nuclear
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
From a woman with an overactive imagination.

 PA> Cancer, birth defects...
 PA> There all just ways of "culling the herd".  Has it ever
 PA> occurred to you that this planet can only support so many
 PA> lifeforms? War is just a method by which the population is
 PA> decreased, as is illness.

 actually it has, when i am in one of my morbid moods.  I agree with you
 there i just do not want to.  I am an optamist and an idealist at heart.
 at present I cannot come up with a better solution.  Then again I am not so
 sure I believe in darwins theory of evolution.

 PA> Call it God, Goddess, Fate or Space Aliens; the fact remains
 PA> that when too many people are gathered in one place, there
 PA> cannot be serenity.

how many people exacly is too many.  in many other cultures other than
ours, people can gather and live in a peaceful, relatively, coexhistance.
it all deals with how comfortable space is to you, privacy, etc etc.  I guess
space is what is gonna decide for us, how we will go about exploring space
or how we build space stations.  I also think war has a lot more to it than
people being cramned into each other.  granting that is probably one factor,
war is a more complex issue.  but to get this message back on topic, how
bout looking at some issues that a lot of sci fi and fantasy authors
usually go on saying are the reasons for their wars?  how bout Raymond E.
Feist., that would probably illustrate space, yet they had the power to go
to other worlds with that one.

 PA> Nuclear power and nuclear waste *are not* going to kill this
 PA> planet.  Humanity *is not* going to kill this planet.

 raised eyebrows at the mention of above, sorry getting cynical.

 PA> The Vogons will...

 ?????, who art, they???





... Some people are, through no fault of their own, sane.
--- Blue Wave v2.12 [NR]
 * Origin: The Cereal Port BBS (OS/2) Rindge,NH 603-899-3335 (1:132/152)

Ä [8] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 161 of 187
 From : ROBERT LIDGREN                      1:134/10        .pä 03 .íâ 96 10:20
 To   : MARK JONES
 Subj : NOWHERE MAN
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Well, Mark, you make quite a few FALSE ASSUMPTIONS so I am surprised at
you!  My original message is appended below - hardly a one or two liner!

Try checking out the topic before rushing to judgement.

-> Possibly.  Certainly *I* don't watch it.  But its more likely that
-> if your message was one of those one or two line "Nowhere Man is
-> cool! Let's talk about it!" messages, it was simply ignored.
-> When a message like that pops up, it generally gets ignored.  That
-> kind of opening generally indicates a newbie, and one who apparently
-> has little to say (else he would have gone into more detail about
-> what he thinks, and what he wants to talk about).

If you don't watch it, why bother responding to my question about the
show?  Try reading the original message below!

--------------------------
REPOST OF ORIGINAL MESSAGE
--------------------------
NOWHERE MAN FANS:

I've just discovered the series Nowhere Man starring Bruce Greenwood as
the "man on the run," Tom Veil.

Thomas Veil is a photojournalist who was married to woman named Allyson.
He has black and white photos that someone wants very badly.  In the
episode I just saw:  "The Incredible Derek," Tom encounters a youngster
with psychic abilites who seemingly has the power to delve into other's
lives and becomes upset by frightening images and words.  Tom found the
boy while on a trip to a town out in "the boonies" where he was trying
to track down an old U.S. Army HumVee(sp?) vehicle which had the licence
plate numbers of the one he documented in his photgraphs.

BTW:  The negative which seems to be "central" to this episode shows
some army soldiers (or mercenaries?) who have just murdered (by hanging)
four men somehwere in a jungle-like setting.  I haven't a clue as to why
the men were killed but because Tom Veil possesses negatives of the
scene "someone:" is after him.

The series appears to be inspired, to a degree, by the old British hit
"The Prisoner."  In addition, I detect a similarity in Tom Veil's
character to that of Dr. Richard Kimbal, the main character in the old
TV series "The Fuguitive" - the same kind of vulnerability and
well-earned paranoia.

The only other episode I have seen was a while ago.  A story called:
"Paradise on Your Doorstep."  This story finds Tom Veil in a place
called New Phoenix, a "community" very reminiscent of some of the
religious "cults" which have been a part of late 20th Century history.
People in the "community" seem outwardly content but also seem to have
lost their identity.  What lead Tom Veil to this place was a photo of
his wife, Alyson.  Tom was working at a photo shop in a small town and
happened upon the shot when he was processing a customer's film.

----------------------------------------------------------------

Now, what I'd like to know is more about the story line to date.

1.  Who is this group which seems to want to use any method to get at
    Tom's film and his diary?

2.  Am I correct in concluding that, at one time, Tom Veil was placed in
    an insane asylum by this group in an effort to coerce him into
    cooperating?

3.  Is there anything else in Tom's set of negative that the "group"
    seems to want to get from him?

4.  What role, if any has his wife played in this conspiracy.  I.E. do
    you get the impression she is some innocent victim too or is she
    part of the process of "taking out" Tom Veil?

5.  At any point in the series, has there appeared ANYONE who is playing
    an on-going supporter for Tom?  If there has not, he really IS up to
    his a** in "alligators!" <g>

    I would appreaciate any input you can provide for me to help me get
    "up to speed."

    Cheers,

    -Rob
-------------
END OF REPOST
-------------
--- PCBoard 15.2
 * Origin: 32 lines 40 Gig BBS, Realtime InterNet SLIP (403)299-9900 (1:134/10)

Ä [8] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 162 of 187
 From : Michael Harper                      1:123/10        .òp 02 .íâ 96 23:52
 To   : Sean Cooper
 Subj : Re: Star Trek
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 -=> Over coffee and beignets, Sean Cooper told Michael Harper all

  about Star Trek...

 SC> Well, I kinda' like X-Files, B5 sucks and Alien Nation is okay...I
 SC> guess..     AND TREK WILL ALWAYS BE WORTH WATCHING !!

 B5 sucks? How'd you arrive at that opinion? Several of the people who
 created the original Trek are involved with the show, and you say it
 sucks?

 Sorry, kid. Until you can give me a rational basis for your opinion of
 B5, we have nothing to talk about. An emotional response is simply not
 acceptable. Give me a rational response, or go away.


... "There are rules here? There're no rules here..." --Terrence Mann
--- RA/FD/FMail
 * Origin: The Electric Fox - Memphis,TN, U.S.A.  1-901-327-1008 (1:123/10)

Ä [8] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 163 of 187
 From : Michael Harper                      1:123/10        .òp 02 .íâ 96 23:52
 To   : Nicolai Shapero
 Subj : Re: Star Trek
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 -=> Over coffee and beignets, Nicolai Shapero told Michael Harper all about
 -=> Star Trek...

 NS> In case it hasn't hit your neck of the woods, FOX is going to be
 NS> broadcasting another ALIEN NATION made-for-TV-movie...on the 2nd.
 NS> Don't know if this will get to you in time, but can always hope...

 You're a prince, Nicolai. They've been advertising this, but things
 have been so hectic of late that I'd forget my own head if it weren't
 bolted on. The problem is that I'll have to find something to blank in
 order to tape it; I'm outta cash, and all the tapes I bought last month
 have been dedicated to B5 episodes already...

 I s'pose I can always erase that copy of the ST:Voyager pilot...


... "For it is the doom of men that they forget." - Merlin
--- RA/FD/FMail
 * Origin: The Electric Fox - Memphis,TN, U.S.A.  1-901-327-1008 (1:123/10)

Ä [8] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 164 of 187
 From : Michael Harper                      1:123/10        .pä 03 .íâ 96 13:59
 To   : ROBERT LIDGREN
 Subj : Re: Good Ole Riker...
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 -=> Over coffee and beignets, Robert Lidgren told everybody all about

  Good Ole Riker......

 RL> Jonathan Frakes (Riker) seemed the MOST disappointed when STTNG was
 RL> cancelled.

 RL> Has anyone seen much of him at all?  I think I've seen him in

 RL> 1. Deep Space Nine once

 RL> 2. Hosting the Alien Autopsy Special

 RL> 3. Once on Cybil Shepard's series (she turned down his offer for a
 RL> "date")
 RL> ------------------------------------------------------------------

 RL> He always struck me as an actor who took on his role in STTNG
 RL> with great earnest and a zest for life.  Has anyone seen or heard
 RL> anything else about Frakes?

 Oh, Ghod, yes, Rob! He turns up all over the place. A few weeks back,
 he and the wife popped up on Lois & Clark as the Yuppies From Hell, a
 pair of greedy swine who were basically Donald and Ivana's evil twins.
 Frakes, along with Marina Sirtis, Ed Asner, David Warner and Morgan
 Sheppard are regulars on Gargoyles, Disney's astonishing dark fantasy
 series. That show has attracted some awesome talent; Bill Faggerbakke,
 the big blond guy from COACH, is on there, as well as Salli Richardson,
 Michael Dorn, and God knows who else. The male lead, though, is one of
 my favorites. Goliath is voiced by Keith David, whom you've seen in at
 least three movies I can name off the top of my head; _Men At Work_,
 _They Live_, and John Carpenter's remake of _The Thing_. But without
 seeing his name in the credits, you'd never know he was the same guy.

 Remember the scene in _Men At Work_ where Charlie Sheen and Emilio
 Estevez find a dead politician stuffed into a garbage can? Remember
 their boss, Lewis, who looked into the can and said,

        "Oh, look. Somebody done threw away a perfectly good white boy."

 Remember him? That's Keith David, one of the finest tough-guy character
 actors of all time, a big, broad-shouldered badass. And he's playing
 one of the most romantic characters since Vincent. I think it's way
 cool.

 Frakes hasn't vanished entirely. All the stuff he's doing now is just
 downtime between Trekflix. I suspect he's already working on Trek VIII,
 in fact. I need to check Hollywood Reporter for the latest production
 listings, but I'd be surprised if the next Trek film wasn't already in
 preproduction.


... I had a normal childhood, but I overcame it.
--- RA/FD/FMail
 * Origin: The Electric Fox - Memphis,TN, U.S.A.  1-901-327-1008 (1:123/10)

Ä [8] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 165 of 187
 From : Michael Harper                      1:123/10        .pä 03 .íâ 96 13:59
 To   : Robert Lidgren
 Subj : VIRTUAL SEX
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 -=> Over coffee and beignets, ROBERT LIDGREN told FRANK GLOVER all about

  VIRTUAL SEX...

 RL> Virtual sex - does it lead to virtual families...?

 Actually, Rob, it does...

 In a game of Legend Of The Red Dragon that runs on a local board, I'm
 married to a delightful young woman who has borne me probably twenty
 kids as of this date. Right now, we've only got eight or nine; they
 keep tailing us into the forest and before you know it, they're monster
 chow. We're not being irresponsible; the game tells me every other day
 that my wife has given me another child. Dana has run out of names for
 the kids; one of the most recent was named Not Again...



... "I could have conquered Europe, but I had women in my life." Henry II
--- RA/FD/FMail
 * Origin: The Electric Fox - Memphis,TN, U.S.A.  1-901-327-1008 (1:123/10)

Ä [8] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 166 of 187
 From : Michael Harper                      1:123/10        .pä 03 .íâ 96 13:59
 To   : Mark Jones
 Subj : Dangerous Babes
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 -=> Over coffee and beignets, Mark Jones told Michael Harper all about
 -=> Cybersex...

 MJ> That explains it.  I never watch S:A&B.  I couldn't get past the
 MJ> silly notion of aircraft carriers in space (they're even *shaped* like
 MJ> carrier, big and flat...) and human-piloted space fighters dodging and
 MJ> jinking in outer space.

 That's the one complaint I have about the show; the space combat scenes
 are way too Star Wars-ish to suit me. They do try to rationalize it,
 though, by saying that the Hammerhead is designed for combat both in
 space and in atmosphere. There are some large holes in credibility on
 the show, but I can forgive a lot of them; this is still first season,
 and a lot of bugs are being shaken out. The cast isn't exactly what I'd
 call typical jarheads, but they're pretty good just the same. And at
 this point, I'd watch the show no matter how bad it was, just to get an
 eyeful of Kristen Cloke and Lanei Chapman...

 MH>  Marie Marshall was in a single episode of B5, "GROPOS". She played
 MH>  Dodger, a Marine corporal who tries to rip Garibaldi's clothes off.

 MJ> Maybe you just like dangerous women.  I know I do.  (I didn't realize
 MJ> it at first, until a female friend of mine who knew my tastes in
 MJ> actresses explained it to me--they're mostly dark-haired women that
 MJ> I've seen stomping bad guys into jelly in various flicks.)

 Oh, yeah... <sigh> Definitely love dangerous women. The one I'm chasing
 now is taking about three forms of kung fu and can put an entire clip
 of 9mm into a one-inch circle...


--- RA/FD/FMail
 * Origin: The Electric Fox - Memphis,TN, U.S.A.  1-901-327-1008 (1:123/10)

Ä [8] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 167 of 187
 From : Ecarey                              1:101/230       .òp 02 .íâ 96 06:09
 To   : Bianca Wesslak
 Subj : NUCLEAR BS
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
BW> TS> TMI had no explosion.  Nuclear fuel is processed differently than
BW> TS> weapons loads, and uses different isotopes.  No way it can happen
BW> Than what did happen at three mile Island?????.  Never say Never, nothing
BW> is ever truly safe.  TRY MURPHY'S LAWS

Try acquainting yourself with the facts.

What happened at TMI was that, after a series of human errors resulting
in failures of safety systems, there was a _small_ leakage of radiation
into the atmosphere. The limited evacuations that took place were purely
precautionary, _in case_ something worse went wrong while they were in
the process of getting things back under control - as events actually
unfolded, there was never any real danger, and everyone evacuated would
have been perfectly safe staying home.

One of the more interesting features of this is that it demonstrates how
_safe_ a standard American nuclear power plant is - the initial failures
that occurred at TMI were the same as the initial failures at Chernobyl,
but the redundant safety features, including real containment towers,
and safety procedures required at American nuclear power plants meant
that the process was stopped in its tracks long before there was any
danger, while Chernobyl barrelled straight on to total disaster.

But even at Chernobyl, what happened _wasn't_ an explosion, and calling
it that doesn't make it one, and not knowing the difference doesn't make
your arguments any more credible.

BW> TS> The only way that can happen is with weapons fire.
BW> What about an inside mishap in a nuke sub, I seriously doubt weapons fire
BW> is the only thing that can hurt a nuke sub, then again they said the Titani
BW> was unsinkable.

But in fact there haven't been any such "mishaps". There's a _lot_ of
nuclear subs out there, and some of them are getting old. Proper safety
features combined with proper safety procedures and proper maintenance
really do make a difference, and it's pointless to base your arguments
on what _could_ happen, if everyone involved with the design and
operation of nuclear subs was a complete, blithering idiot.

BW> As for the manhattan project, they worked on the A bomb, and I read mostly
BW> fantasy, and not bad sci fi.  I've also visited a nuclear power plant in
BW> Maine, I think it's name is yankee something or other.

Maine Yankee, one of the best-run plants in the country.

BW>I do admit to being
BW> wrong occasionly

Getting your facts wrong tends to damage your credibility.

BW>but my info generally comes from people who have some
BW> knowledge of what they are talking about.

Apparently _not_, based on the nonsense you've posted here.

BW>Besides which, large explosions
BW> are not the only danger, how bout radiation leaks,

TMI was the worst radiation leak we've ever had from a nuclear power
plant in this country - the worst in the world except for Chernobyl -
and no one suffered any damage beyond a very small-scale evacuation and
the economic cost of the plant being partially shut down for a while.

Even the Pilgrim nuclear power plant in Plymouth, MA, which apparently
really _is_ run by blithering idiots, has never actually had a real
problem, just lots of screw-ups that given the right applications of
Murphy's Law _might_ cause problems, under the right circumstances.
After years of their incompetence, the worst you could get them on in
terms of health damages is stress-related illness.:)

BW>how  bout overheated
BW> water out there killing a fishing industry, etc etc.

In fact, the effect of the heated waters near a nuclear power plant is
not that straightforward. It discourages some local populations of water
life, but encourages others. It's just a change in the local
environment, not unambiguous damage. There's a plant in Minnesota, for
instance, which has altered the local river- and river-side environment
such that the preferred prey of bald eagles has made a huge comeback,
accompanied by a huge comeback in the bald eagle. I don't know about
you, but _I_ have a hard time calling that "damage".:)

BW>nuclear energy is not
BW> the safest or infalliable energy that there is.

Well, yes, it is, actually, _except_ for the problem of nuclear waste
disposal, which really hasn't been solved. OTOH, even "temporary"
solutions could hold us a long time there, while we set about finding
permanent solutions.

 * OLX 2.1 TD * Hello, I am part number ¦ºÞº¦º¦Û¦ºÝ¦ºÝ¦¦

--- FLAME v1.0
 * Origin: Withouta Net - Drop In Anytime! - 617/846-5416 (1:101/230)

Ä [8] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 168 of 187
 From : Ecarey                              1:101/230       .òp 02 .íâ 96 06:09
 To   : Bianca Wesslak
 Subj : NUCLEAR
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
BW>Yeah and what about japan and hiroshima and nagashaki, there still being
BW>effected, how about since all the nuke bombs being exploded, and the
BW>unsafety ofnuke power plants, every one born today has a little bit of
BW>plutonium in there lungs, among other things.

Bianca, nuclear power plants and nuclear bombs are _not_ the same thing,
and they don't have the same effects. They don't even use the same
isotopes of plutonium and uranium, and that makes a _big_ difference.

BW>Nor have I at any point
BW>gone for fossil fuels in this debate, so you can save the fossil argument, I
BW>also don't think that nuclear enerby is such a good idea either.!!

Fossil fuels are the current practical alternative to nuclear power. As
a _practical_ matter, opposing nuclear power across the board, right
now, means more use of fossil fuels. Solar power and wind power are
usable for some purposes, but not everything and not everywhere, until
we make some major technical breakthroughs.

BW> NS> Yes.  And knowing the hard realities of physics helps you to make an
BW> NS>
BW>informed decision.
BW> reality is only a perception that humans came up with, it changes to new
BW> concepts that we decide are right.  Physics is only theory that a bunch
BW> of people agree upon, not fact, thories.  highschool science fact, and
BW> definition between theories, facts, and hypothesis.

*sigh*

Physics is a good deal more than just a set of opinions. People _agree_
on physics-based descriptions of the world because they accurately
predict how things will work. Culture influences what questions science
asks, and to some extent how scientists will _try_ to interpret the
facts they get from experiments, but it still remains a _fact_ that if
you let go of a solid object, it will fall to the ground, every
single time [provided you're standing on Earth, and not in zero-g:)] and
the same isotope of uranium has the same half-life, every single time.

 * OLX 2.1 TD * This tagline stolen by Off-Line Xpress!

--- FLAME v1.0
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Ä [8] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 169 of 187
 From : Nicolai Shapero                     1:102/524       .åò 04 .íâ 96 06:34
 To   : Jackson Raster
 Subj : Re: More faves...
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Dec 31 15:54>, Jackson Raster (1:3637/77) wrote to Nicolai Shapero:

 JR>without just cause. I require that you stop this excessive
 JR>behavior, and consider reality for a moment before you rant
 JR>and& rave. I stopped as soon as was humanly possible.

We protect democracy, we don't practice it.  If you "require" that I do what you
want in the way you want it, I will really honestly truly require you to leave
the echo.

Irritating the moderator is NOT the way to retain your access privs to this
conference.

-- Nicolai Shapero, Moderator of the SFFAN echo

--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [8] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 170 of 187
 From : Nicolai Shapero                     1:102/524       .ÿò 05 .íâ 96 06:17
 To   : Mark Jones
 Subj : nuclear
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Jan 01 12:11>, Mark Jones (1:105/302.47) wrote to Nicolai Shapero:

 MJ>   Hmmm.  Obviously, some research is called for.  We now have
 MJ>three
 MJ>candidates for the originator of this idea.  Jack says it was
 MJ>Larry
 MJ>Niven.  You say Jerry Pournelle.  I think it was Robert Heinlein.

 MJ>   Does anyone remember exactly where they saw it?  I don't.

Jerry was sounding off at the LASFS and he told it to a number of people; I was
one in the crowd.

-- Nicolai Shapero, the Mad Russian Sysop of StormGate Aerie

--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [8] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 171 of 187
 From : Robert Siemborski                   1:2604/214      .åò 04 .íâ 96 19:00
 To   : Joel Ranger
 Subj : Re: NOWHERE MAN
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 >> I wonder if there are even seven of us watching NOWHERE MAN???
 >
 >Yep, I really enjoy the show. Unfortunately, during it's first run-thru,
 >I missed a few of the episodes....just saw the one with New Phoenix....
 >boy did it ever remind me of The Prisoner....
 >
 >What are you thoughts/ideas/opinions on the show?

I missed the start of this thread, but I enjoy Nowhere Man as well... I missed
the first episode (both times it aired) and I'm kicking myself for it.  My
friend told me several things were set up in that episode (the breaking glasses,
and the cigar/pencil thing).

Otherwise I think it's great!

- Rob -

--- SLMAIL v4.5a  (#1409)
 * Origin: Bits 'N Bytes BBS - Leonia, NJ - (201) 346-1661 - 28.8k Connections!
(1:2604/214)

Ä [8] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 172 of 187
 From : Tisha Mcgary                        1:350/33        .pä 03 .íâ 96 14:01
 To   : ANYone
 Subj : Startrek Voyager
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Does anyone know what tribe Chacotay is a member of?  Or where I can find out?

Thanks a bunch.

Tisha

P.S. please resond soon I 'm on a small time constraint.



--- Maximus 2.02
 * Origin: The PYRAMID bbs (1:350/33)

Ä [8] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 173 of 187
 From : Pramod Korathota                    3:712/505       .òp 02 .íâ 96 21:27
 To   : Myranya Werlemann
 Subj : The Wheel Of Time
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Hi Myranya,

MW>  PM> I have been reading the wheel of time series from Robert Jordan
MW>  PM> anyone heard when the next book is due out.

MW>  At a con in November I heard Februari, but I haven't been able to
MW>  confirm that. If anyone got definite info, I'ld like to know, as
MW>  well...

   Well, unfortunately the date has been moved back to April
96. But different sources claim the date to be between February and
May.

   If you want more information and discussion about Robert
Jordan try:

The group "SF" on Fido - a lot of "Jordanites" there.

On the internet try these newsgroups:

alt.fan.robert-jordan
rec.arts.sf.written.robert-jordan


Hope this helps :)!
Pramod,

___
RM 1.3 -- Talk about weight off your mind! --Lister.

--- Maximus/2 2.02
 * Origin: Sydney PC Users Group Mail Exchange (3:712/505)

Ä [8] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 174 of 187
 From : Longhair                            1:123/569       .åò 04 .íâ 96 17:09
 To   : Steve Thomas
 Subj : elfquest
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE 1.11+

 -=> And Steve Thomas did express this opinion  to All <=-

 ST> Hi!

 ST> Any Elfquest fans on here?

   Yeh here ya go. <Two-Spear is Kavi's father?? did I miss a page?>

... !edis gnorw eht morf siht ta gnikool era uoY
--- Blue Wave/RA v2.12 [NR]
 * Origin: 9 out of 5 Schizos prefer Lunatic Fringe! 382-LUST (1:123/569)

Ä [8] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 175 of 187
 From : Ken Hawkins                         1:359/530       .åò 04 .íâ 96 12:13
 To   : Mark Jones
 Subj : NUCLEAR
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Mark,

MJ>Hmmm.  Obviously, some research is called for.  We now have three
MJ>candidates for the originator of this idea.  Jack says it was Larry
MJ>Niven.  You say Jerry Pournelle.  I think it was Robert Heinlein.
MJ>
MJ>Does anyone remember exactly where they saw it?  I don't.
MJ>

    To muddy the issue yet more, I recall reading an article (either in
Popular Science, P. Mechanics, or Discover; I seldom remember where)
that discussed the fact that these spent materials do remain a hazard
for a time of thousands of years (this was due to the concentration of
spent materials, and the fact that even low-level emmissions become a
hazard with long exposures), and that there is no guarentee that
whatever sentient beings are around at that future date would understand
the warnings.
    Proposals were to either bury it so deep that only a technologically
advanced culture would be able to find the site (and assumably
uunderstand its nature), or design a cap for the site that would be
universally recognized as a symbol of danger. The questionable part is:
what would be a recognizable danger or warning to a totally alien culture?
___
* UniQWK v4.1 * The Windows Mail Reader


--- PCBoard (R) v15.22/10
 * Origin: Sasquatch BBS, Terrace, BC (1:359/530)

Ä [8] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 176 of 187
 From : ROBERT LIDGREN                      1:134/10        .åò 04 .íâ 96 01:57
 To   : JOEL RANGER
 Subj : NOWHERE MAN
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
-> Yep, I really enjoy the show. Unfortunately, during it's first
-> run-thru, I missed a few of the episodes....just saw the one with New
-> Phoenix.... boy did it ever remind me of The Prisoner....
->
-> What are you thoughts/ideas/opinions on the show?

I REALLY ENJOY WHAT I HAVE BEEN ABLE TO SEE SO FAR.  As I have echoed in
a previous message, the connections with The Prisoner and, perhaps, The
Fugitive, seem fairly strong ones but not to the point of disabling new
thrusts of creativity.

I have not been able to see the full catalog of episodes to date but I'm
now watching it every Saturday night and trying to get up to speed.
Right now there are MANY MORE QUESTIONS than there are answer in this
cross-country trek to find out why he is being followed, by whom, and
what the full dimensions are in this conspiracy to a.  discredit him and
b. to retrieve his negatives and diary.

The way his relationship with his wife was fouled up through tampering
and coercion was especially poignant.  Now he seems very much on his own
with only a few fleeting moments when we see characters who are willing
to help him get away and remain safe.

I do look forward to more episodes and to further discussions here.  I
had a strange message from another person here who evidently had not
read my first posting and he went on at length berating me for being a
newbie or something.  I resented that, especially since it demonstrated
his inability to do some back-tracking of a thread before drawing
ignorant conclusions.  This is something I find happens very rarely in
SFFAN so I was surprised and chagrined.

Thanks for your intelligent message and I look forward to further
dialogue.  Cheers and all my best!

-Rob

======================================================================
| Robert Lidgren \\\|/// * THE INNER SANCTUM | * The Old Viking      |
|                ( o o ) * Writer, Teacher   | * Seeker of the Truth |
| =========o00o====(_)====o00o=======================================|
| e-mail me at------------> robert.lidgren@bbs.logicnet.com          |
| My Personal Web Site----> http://www.logicnet.com/robert.lidgren   |
======================================================================
--- PCBoard 15.2
 * Origin: 32 lines 40 Gig BBS, Realtime InterNet SLIP (403)299-9900 (1:134/10)

Ä [8] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 177 of 187
 From : ROBERT LIDGREN                      1:134/10        .åò 04 .íâ 96 02:01
 To   : ECAREY
 Subj : NOWHERE MAN
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Thanks so much for your reply to my questions about NOWHERE MAN.

It was a delight to see your name "up in lights" once more.  We've
communicated before, as you may remember.

I am keen to keep up on NOWHERE MAN now that I've discovered it.

Your assessments really helped me place the plot line so far into some
for of context.

Cheers and all the best,

-Rob

======================================================================
| Robert Lidgren \\\|/// * THE INNER SANCTUM | * The Old Viking      |
|                ( o o ) * Writer, Teacher   | * Seeker of the Truth |
| =========o00o====(_)====o00o=======================================|
| e-mail me at------------> robert.lidgren@bbs.logicnet.com          |
| My Personal Web Site----> http://www.logicnet.com/robert.lidgren   |
======================================================================
--- PCBoard 15.2
 * Origin: 32 lines 40 Gig BBS, Realtime InterNet SLIP (403)299-9900 (1:134/10)

Ä [8] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 178 of 187
 From : Christian Kent                      3:712/704       .ÿò 29 .åê 95 15:53
 To   : Jerry Van Kooten
 Subj : Red Dwarf / TNG crossover
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: FastEcho 1.41/g 10056

JK> CK> Can somebody please send me the Red Dwarf / Star Trek:TNG crossover?
JK> CK> I've got to see that subplot with Riker and Data again!
JK> Thought I was a Red Dwarf fan... Whazzat crossover you're
JK> talking about?

Yeah, well I've only seen it once myself ... over a year ago.  But watch out,
it's not a very serious attempt, going way OTT with the concept of "fiction".

Someone on this echo or a related echo told me where to find it ... I've been a
bit busy so please hang on (I want to ask for it to be netmailed to me).

... LSD: A cheaper version of virtual reality!
---
 * Origin: The Eagles BBS - Fidonet and Internet System - (3:712/704)

Ä [8] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 179 of 187
 From : Chris Ogniben                       1:2604/568      .åò 04 .íâ 96 13:39
 To   : Robert Lidgren
 Subj : SLIDERS/ANY NEWS?
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

   Are you kidding?  Slider's is over dude, it's never coming back, and
it was a stupid series anyways, though i liked it back when it was on
the tube.  But, it's gone, terminated from the entertainment of life.
Also, i hope your mother get's better.


--- WM v3.11/93-0947
 * Origin: Waterside BBS - NJ - (201) 641-5375 28.8k  (1:2604/568)

Ä [8] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 180 of 187
 From : Chris Ogniben                       1:2604/568      .åò 04 .íâ 96 13:40
 To   : Steven Wesen
 Subj : Re: SLIDERS/ANY NEWS?
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

   What, how do you know that Slider's is coming back.. They terminated
it, they cacancelled it, and now it's coming back, who the heck is the
dude that makes the deicisions to what stays or not, this sucks


--- WM v3.11/93-0947
 * Origin: Waterside BBS - NJ - (201) 641-5375 28.8k  (1:2604/568)

Ä [8] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 181 of 187
 From : Chris Ogniben                       1:2604/568      .åò 04 .íâ 96 13:41
 To   : Eric Reinholt
 Subj : Star Trek
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

  Hi eric, i am still around in 1996, and still my life sucks, with no


--- WM v3.11/93-0947
 * Origin: Waterside BBS - NJ - (201) 641-5375 28.8k  (1:2604/568)

Ä [8] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 182 of 187
 From : Marco Catalano                      2:2802/152.3    .òp 02 .íâ 96 08:59
 To   : Trevor Pack
 Subj : X-files
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Hello Trevor!


Wednesday December 27 1995, Trevor Pack writes to All:

 TP> i am looking for people to talk to about X-files.

You've found one!

What would you like to talk about? My favorite episode would be "The Erleynmeyer
Flask", and yours?


Greetings from Marco
BYE!



... Don't hit me, Mr. Moderator... I'll go back on topic... I swear!

--- FMail/386 1.02
 * Origin: 61 Cygni. There's life Jim! But not as we know it. (2:2802/152.3)

Ä [8] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 183 of 187
 From : Brion Lienhart                      1:213/700.2     .ÿò 05 .íâ 96 16:07
 To   : Patrick Long
 Subj : nuclear
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On Mon Jan 01, Patrick Long said to Bianca Wesslak:

 -PL>Even while working with nuclear weapons, I was exposed to less
 -PL>radiation from the weapons than I did from a normal chest X-ray.
 -PL>_Much_ less.  The US Navy's nuclear vessels expose their crews to
 -PL>_very_ little radiation.  The old Soviet nuclear vessels, OTOH,
 -PL>exposed their crews to more, but that was due to their lack of proper
 -PL>shielding.  Built well, operated properly, nuclear power plants are
 -PL>quite safe.

When I was in the submarine service, I wore my dosimeter back to Nevada on leave
one time, and messed up my dosage for the whole quarter. I'm getting more
radiation living up here in Nevada, than I was underwater.



--- QM v1.31
 * Origin: Ministry of Peace - Carson City, NV (1:213/700.2)

Ä [8] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 184 of 187
 From : Brion Lienhart                      1:213/700.2     .ÿò 05 .íâ 96 16:08
 To   : The Raven
 Subj : nuclear
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On Wed Dec 27, The Raven said to Mark Jones:

 TR> Sure, a few fools will go anyway.  They die, and the collective IQ of
 TR> the human species increases. Think of it as evolution in action.
 -TR>
 MJ>     Are you sure it was Niven?  I could have sworn it was Heinlein who
 MJ>  suggested this.  (He also suggested a solution for the "insoluble"

 -TR>     I took it almost directly from Niven's "A Modest Proposal".  I'm
 -TR>not sure where else you can get it, but its in either "N-Space" or
 -TR>"Playgrounds of the Mind".  He offered that as a solution to the nuclear

waste

 -TR>problem.

But they won't die soon enough to prevent them from carrying the crap outside
the disposal site and screwing up the surrounding countryside.




--- QM v1.31
 * Origin: Ministry of Peace - Carson City, NV (1:213/700.2)

Ä [8] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 185 of 187
 From : Brion Lienhart                      1:213/700.2     .ÿò 05 .íâ 96 16:19
 To   : The Raven
 Subj : Good Ole Riker...
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On Mon Jan 01, The Raven said to Robert Lidgren:

 -TR>     He guested on a recent episode of "Lois and Clark", as well as
 -TR>having directed half a dozen episodes of DS9, Voyager, L&C, and a bunch of

 -TR>other shows.  He also regularly does voice work for Disney's "Gargoyles"
 -TR>cartoon series.

I thought that was him, but I kept missing the credits. I also could have sworn
that I heard Michael Dorn and Patrick Stewart as various voices, any info on
that?





--- QM v1.31
 * Origin: Ministry of Peace - Carson City, NV (1:213/700.2)

Ä [8] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 186 of 187
 From : Brion Lienhart                      1:213/700.2     .ÿò 05 .íâ 96 16:13
 To   : Ecarey
 Subj : NUCLEAR BS
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On Tue Jan 02, Ecarey said to Bianca Wesslak:

BW> What about an inside mishap in a nuke sub, I seriously doubt weapons fire
BW> is the only thing that can hurt a nuke sub, then again they said the Titani
BW> was unsinkable.

 -E>But in fact there haven't been any such "mishaps". There's a _lot_ of
 -E>nuclear subs out there, and some of them are getting old. Proper
 -E>safety
 -E>features combined with proper safety procedures and proper maintenance
 -E>really do make a difference, and it's pointless to base your arguments
 -E>on what _could_ happen, if everyone involved with the design and
 -E>operation of nuclear subs was a complete, blithering idiot.

I was involved with the operation of nuclear subs for six years, and I like to
think that I'm not a complete, blithering idiot. That said however, the US has
had two subs sink due to various causes, and the Soviet Union is believed to
have lost a half dozen or so. The reactor vessel and various systems keep the
radioactive stuff pretty well contained, even after the ship goes down. It's
certainly no worse than the barrels of radioactive waste that were purposely
dumped at sea.



--- QM v1.31
 * Origin: Ministry of Peace - Carson City, NV (1:213/700.2)

Ä [8] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 187 of 187
 From : Lori Brown                          1:363/1701      .åò 04 .íâ 96 00:04
 To   : Darre LuAllen
 Subj : Re: ST Voyager
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

DL>   Figures a Trek fan would jump on this. <g>  Seriously though...
DL>

Sorry.  :) Sometimes I get bored and just have to reply to something! :)

DL>   I'm a fan a ST and have been since I was a kid.  I just think that
DL>   Roddenberry was a bit of a "Pollyanna."  The only problem that I

I'm afraid I don't understand "Polyanna?" Who is that?

DL>   ship councilors catch on to the Tech-speck.  In college, you are
DL>  suppose
DL>   to receive a well-rounded enducation.  However, I know of a lot of
DL>  students
DL>   who get lost when I start talking about something as simple as
DL>  Freshman
DL>   Writing.  Sure, occasionally they have one of the characters not

True...but being able to talk about the theory or rules of something is a little
different than being able to operate it. I have no idea of how a car works, but
I can drive. Naval trainees learn to operate a lot of equipment on the ship
(especially submarine trainees), but have no idea how it works. I would think
the training would be more of that nature.

DL>   ideas can be thrown around.  My gripe is at how fast everyone seems
DL>  to
DL>   catch on.  I'm a computer programmer by trade.  I work with several

True again....but than there's not a lot of time in one episode to allow someone
time to learn, so part of this can be chalked up to "poetic license".

DL>   Sisco just looks at the custom built lock Rom had assembled, with
DL>  Ferengi
DL>   know-how and quotes the Security System and Model number.  This

I don't remember that scene in that episode, but I'll agree he shouldn't have
known that. Writers do foul up! :)

DL>   I'd love to live in a universe like this, and even empathize with
DL>  those
DL>   who loose themselves in the fantasy.  (And by no means am I implying
DL>  that
DL>   you are such a person.  However, I once was to an extent.)  My
DL>  original
DL>   comment was more of a smart elicked statement.  So now, I've
DL>  supported my
DL>   statement.  And I look forward to your reply. I hope I made sense...

No offense taken...I was ALMOST a "get a lifer" until I met my fiancee and got
involved in other areas, such as computers and graphics (my livihood is as a
graphic designer). Now I spend more time at my keyboard & tablet than I do with
a Star Trek book!

Anyway, I understand your points, too. It just doesn't bother me as much. I also
hope my comments made sense as I am a bit tired tonight! :)

Later.

... I know a good tagline when I steal one!
--- QuickBBS 2.80 (Zeta-1)
 * Origin: NCC-1701 - Orlando, FL   407-380-1701 (1:363/1701)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 1 of 225
 From : Lawrence E Dunlap                   1:106/2927      .åò 04 .íâ 96 19:10
 To   : Kevin Ahearn
 Subj : tv and sf
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

KA>Yeah, if we could just get rid of that pesky First Amendment, we *could* have
KA>effective governmental regulation of what's broadcast on television.

KA>--Kevin

KA> Origin: (1:109/104)

   The First Amendment is partly a problem. However, it is only a small
part of the problem.

   My issue is the manner in which the (obviously materialistic)
creative community openly admits severely educationally compromised
producers into their ranks.

   In any alternative television occupation such as media news
journalism or the technical television occupations, such analogs of the
educationally compromised producers wouldn't make the final cut for the
*first* interview.

   The defectives seem to be liberally indulged in their unworkable
flights of fancy which sometimes make a great amount of unexpected
money. I suspect there are times when these are loathed when
obmoxiously insouciant with some more literate producer or outsider.

   Producers like Roddenberry (in his time ) and Stracyznski today now
makes up the distant exceptions which rise above the muititude of
generally good and preponderantly poor television productions, not even
discussing *bad sf tv producers* in the same breath.

   What I'm wishing for is a housecleaning of educational defectives
from TV and movie studios at the hands of several fairly visionary media
executive leaders who will expect nothing less than substantial capacity
to be inspired, challenged and motivated to produce "high quality" yet
accessable prodcutions because of their exposure to moderm and classical
literature and arts. Most of our classical literature was populist
writings that struck an echo in successive generations.

   Next is a housecleaning of advertizing agnecy executives who lower
the denominators of the concepts in TV that corrupts the average viewer
to accept literal *sewage*

   I would prefer the literacy of British TV producers to the American
defectives. American TV houses don't expect enough of their employees or
their executives. American ad executives are educationally further down
the food chain and function with even less integrity than the
production house workers.

    Europeans expect greater exposure to high literature and arts to
create an understanding of the best of the breed of the arts--leading to
production tensions between high art and the tasdte of the multitudes.

   Most disturbing is the low quality of commerical American TV and the
realtively improved quality of European TV. I've never seen anything as
good on PBS as it's produced by some of the most inept universities who
never had or lost any contact with the multitude of Americans when
producing classical arts productions. The Britisn know that even their
best TV comedies have universally been set in the modern Britisn culture

   . The *Hallmark Cards Showcase* has produced excellent models for
non-s.f. productions. The Hallmark producers' attention to high concept
with a collateral exertion to tie in to common themes in the humanities
has garnered awards that has caused the company to be lauded richly and
loudly nearly every year.

   I suggest that similar care and devotion to high art in the hands of
a sufficiently literate and developed production house could lift sf tv
as well, if a strong-spirited visionary will take charge of a studio
invest in that producer even as he clears out deadwood educational
defect8ives and brings commonly literate producers and workers.

   *That* studio needs to stay clear of the advertizing agency houses
that make American TV so pureile.

   Stracyznski is a good start but what I'm looking for is a visionary
production studio that will do consistent justice to the height, width
and breadth of most classical and moderm American SF and mainstream
adventure novels apart from Arthur C. Clarke's very transferrable novels

   Simply put, when you lead and train someone as though they will and
*can* become what they *could* be and be the very best at the same time,
the mentored almost certainly will rise to that level of expectation or
fall short of it because of natural deficencies.

   American TV production houses lack people with the specific literary
breeding to accomplish this apart from a thorough housecleaning with
replacement with significantly improved education and vastly changed
attitude about producing low concept TV.

   My annoyance with advertizing agency exectuives is because their
executives appearantly believe Americans think about nothing else
besides food, money, sexual pleasure, and athletic/movie star/rock star
spectacles.

   I'd easily and quickly believe the evidence that the ad agency execs
don't feel secure about high concept TV in any form except when it's
Hallmark Cards. Low concept trash talk TV including raw sex is
(supposedly??!!) 'cool'.

   And it is four years to 2000 A.D.  [Shudder] [Shudder]


Lawrence E Dunlap
(1:106/2927)


___
* UniQWK #5136* Noise?  I'm shaving!  I'M SHAVING!

--- Alexi/Mail 2.02b (#10000)
 * Origin: Computer Living F'n BBS-Houston, TX 713-444-2927 (1:106/2927)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 2 of 225
 From : Lawrence E Dunlap                   1:106/2927      .ÿò 05 .íâ 96 23:01
 To   : Frank Glover
 Subj : Re: Botched seaQuest
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Frank,

FG>
FG>LE>     For a submersible to be built to the size that is found in that
FG>LE>  cancelled program, it would require a economy generating a $40 to 90
FG>LE>  trillion planetary GDP to permit such a construction twice.
FG>LE>
FG>LE>     Even if we don't crash the shaky economy we run today, some major
FG>LE>  breakthrough in technology would be necesssary to allow such a
FG>LE>  economy
FG>LE>  with the developing world being largely like the US of 1995 in 2032
FG>LE>  as  it was portrayed in that show.

FG>Why not? I wouldn't make too many assumptions about the design (and  in
FG>the case of SeaQuest`II' it would be just a matter of digging up the  CAD
FG>blueprints),fabrication and construction techniques available in

30-odd years. We didn't see much in the way of factories and production
lines, so who knows how much it has in common with today?

FG>Indeed, all those large, privately owned undersea habitats imply  that
FG>they're not outrageously expensive to build.

FG>(One thing I noticed from the second Back to the Future movie was  that
FG>someone must've discovered and been able to produce cheaply those
FG>antigravity devices almost overnight. Most cars seemed retrofitted
FG>with them, rather than having been designed in. And if they can be
FG>found in something as mundane as the hoverboards, it *must* be cheap
FG>to make.  I'll bet most people didn't consider that, but I find
FG>*sudden*  tecnological changs of that sort to be the most interesting...)

FG>Frank

FG>Origin:  Rochester, NY (1:2613/477)

   Most of the technology of seaQuest was partially contrived fantasy
instead of rigorously researched projections of current science and
technology. It is what ruined seaQuest in its inception.

   My other point is even optimistic US and British scientists
recognize there must be feasible economies to make such feats possible.

   The global scientific consensus is that no possible sets  developed
confederation of developing nations *can* be as advanced as 1995 United
States in the 2030's on Terra without generating such suffiicent
pollution that it would kill us off in about ten years were every such
nation to receive such a level of technollgy/pollution capacity at the
same time.

   Secondly, no nation will be able to build massive submersibles or
spacecraft without global cooperation, because the resources necessary
for those gigantic ships would come from the resource production streams
which would service individual national needs, making that projection of
seaQuest particularly unlikely given the current millieu of nation
states jostling for scarse resources in some areas even as recently as
1985, even as their citizens starve for the sake of war.  .  .  .

   No coherent global culture and society is possible as soon as 2030
simply because no such planetary advancement is very likely outside of a
total transmorphing of the many economies that make up the 1996 global
economy by way of some type of regional economic or natural disaster
that could trigger global crisis/emergency.

   The emergency might lead world leaders to consider many such
transmorphing decisions and theories after a crisis has been stablized
successfully to prevent starvation in the developed world, for example,
because stablizing the chance of a fatal famine in our US/Canada/Mexico,
Europe/Australia would be considered sufficiently critical indeed.

   It doesn't have to be famine--any serious regional emergency which
would cripple individuals and nations globally where several decades of
lasting hardships for billions is possible without action qualifies as
sufficiently intense enough to prompt discussion of such changes.
Humanly engeinnered disasters add to the possibilities

   However, the Daggers don't qualify, BTW, because that is very less
possible development if we are dealing with only the global public
domain biotechology area as the only environment from which such
developments can emerge into the world stage. While the Daggers do hole
that potential, no such possibillity is known to be resident within the
current public domain, global, human scientific research & development system

   Something like a hypothetical disappearence of a nation from
existance unexpectedly and instantly begins to be intense enough to me.

   It would have to have some particularly critical economic fallout of
one to begin to prompt changes, too.

Lawrence E Dunlap
(1:106/2927)
___
* UniQWK #5136* Backup not found: (A)bort (R)etry (S)lap nearest bystander

--- Alexi/Mail 2.02b (#10000)
 * Origin: Computer Living F'n BBS-Houston, TX 713-444-2927 (1:106/2927)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 3 of 225
 From : Lawrence E Dunlap                   1:106/2927      .ÿò 05 .íâ 96 23:03
 To   : Nicolai Shapero
 Subj : nuclear
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

MJ>Hmmm.  Obviously, some research is called for.  We now have three
MJ>candidates for the originator of this idea.  Jack says it was Larry
MJ>Niven.  You say Jerry Pournelle.  I think it was Robert Heinlein.

MJ>Does anyone remember exactly where they saw it?  I don't.

MJ> Origin:  (1:105/302.47)

   Captial solution to a quagmire I've grown tired of reading the
sharpshooters jibes going back and forth.  .  .back and forth.  .  .  in
my mail packet!



Lawrence E Dunlap
(1:106/2927)

___
* UniQWK #5136* Hello, everybody, I'm a human!

--- Alexi/Mail 2.02b (#10000)
 * Origin: Computer Living F'n BBS-Houston, TX 713-444-2927 (1:106/2927)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 4 of 225
 From : The Raven                           1:363/309       .åò 04 .íâ 96 12:58
 To   : Patrick Long
 Subj : nuclear
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 -=>what is dresden fill me in.

 PL> It's a shame History classes leave out so much these days...

     It shows us, however, that this person is less than 20 years old.

     Jack Butler



... "If Botticelli were alive today, he'd be working for `Vogue'."
--- Blue Wave/DOS v2.20 [NR]
 * Origin: Forethought BBS -=- Orlando, FL -=- 407-679-6561 (1:363/309)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 5 of 225
 From : The Raven                           1:363/309       .ÿò 05 .íâ 96 10:45
 To   : Lori Brown
 Subj : ST Voyager
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 LB> I'm afraid I don't understand "Polyanna?" Who is that?

     Re:  Old Disney movies.  You can probably find it at a blockbuster.

     Jack Butler



... "Lights on the river bridge... filling the harbor with halos."
--- Blue Wave/DOS v2.20 [NR]
 * Origin: Forethought BBS -=- Orlando, FL -=- 407-679-6561 (1:363/309)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 6 of 225
 From : The Raven                           1:363/309       .ÿò 05 .íâ 96 10:51
 To   : Bianca Wesslak
 Subj : NUCLEAR
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 BW> Yeah and what about japan and hiroshima and nagashaki, there still being
 BW> effected

     Listen to this very carefully:  Those were nuclear weapons.  They were
designed and built specifically to explode, kill people, and spread radiation
and radioactive fallout as far as possible.  That was the job of those *two*
items.  Count them again:  two.  For all your talk about "nuclear accidents",
you seem to forget that Hiroshima and Nagasaki were hardly accidents.
     And neither city is still radioactive.  I've been to both of them;  the
only radiation I was exposed to was sunlight.
     A nuclear reactor is *not* a nuclear bomb.  It does not explode.  It
does not go up in a great glowing mushroom shaped cloud.


 BW> how about since all the nuke bombs being exploded, and the unsafety of
 BW> nuke power plants, every one born today has a little bit of plutonium in
 BW> there lungs, among other things.

     Do you have any idea how poisonous plutonium is?  I'm not just talking
about radioactivity, I'm talking about *toxicity*.  It would be safer for
you to eat white arsenic than a "little bit" of plutonium, and not because
of plutonium's radioactivity.  The sheer poisonous nature of the element
would kill you before the radiation.
     Care to explain how we are all carrying around lethal amounts of
plutonium in our lungs, and yet are not falling over dead from plutonium
poisoning?


 BW> Nor have I at any point gone for fossil fuels in this debate, so you can
 BW> save the fossil argument, I also don't think that nuclear enerby is such
 BW> a good idea either.!

     Brilliant.  So, nuclear's out... fossil fuels suck... what do you
suggest as an alternative?  Wind power?  Muscle power?


 BW> reality is only a perception that humans came up with, it changes to new
 BW> concepts that we decide are right.  Physics is only theory that a bunch
 BW> of people agree upon, not fact, thories.  highschool science fact, and
 BW> definition between theories, facts, and hypothesis.

     Physics is a bit more than just a "theory".  The laws of physics are the
way the world works.  Period.  No "interpretation", but fact.

     Just how old are you, anyway?  You write, and your opinions read, like
a junior high school student.

     Jack Butler




... "Men would be angels; angels would be gods." -- Alexander Pope
--- Blue Wave/DOS v2.20 [NR]
 * Origin: Forethought BBS -=- Orlando, FL -=- 407-679-6561 (1:363/309)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 7 of 225
 From : Brandon Wolgast                     1:363/216       .åò 04 .íâ 96 14:40
 To   : Samantha Dobbs
 Subj : Space: Above & Beyond
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: HyperMail! v1.21 94-0049

SD>Are there any fan out there?

SD>Sam...

Yup, one right here.

---
 * OLX 2.1 TD * Hello, I am part number ||#||||#||#||#||

--- HyperMail! v1.21
 * Origin: Data Systems Internat'l (407)292-8009 Call Today! (1:363/216)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 8 of 225
 From : Sue Squires                         1:353/115       .ÿò 05 .íâ 96 10:47
 To   : ROBERT LIDGREN
 Subj : SLIDERS/ANY NEWS?
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
        Have heard rumours that Sliders will be coming in as a mid-season
        filler sometime in Jnauary.  Will believe it when I see it as it
        seems like every time I like with some possible thinking to it -
        it gets cancelled.

--- Blue Wave/RA v2.12 [NR]
 * Origin: Corpus Collosum, Penticton  BC Canada 1-(604)-493-9281 (1:353/115)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 9 of 225
 From : Sue Squires                         1:353/115       .ÿò 05 .íâ 96 10:47
 To   : Trevor Pack
 Subj : X-files
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
        Look for the x-files conference.  Lots of in-depth, detailed (nit-
        picking at times) discussions going on there.

--- Blue Wave/RA v2.12 [NR]
 * Origin: Corpus Collosum, Penticton  BC Canada 1-(604)-493-9281 (1:353/115)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 10 of 225
 From : Bianca Wesslak                      1:132/152       .åò 04 .íâ 96 15:38
 To   : The Raven
 Subj : nuclear BS
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
From a woman with an overactive imagination.

 BW> Than what did happen at three mile Island?????.
 TR> A leak.  A very minor leak, to tell you the truth.  As I've said
 TR> three or four times so far, you'd get more radiation from just sitting
 TR> in the capital building.

 Question what they going to do with all the radiactive stuff in
 the plant.  for instance the water.  If it was just a 'minor' leak why
 isn't it still being used.  Or can they not fix that minor leak.

 TR> Who?  Greenpeace?  ROFL!  I worked for them for a while, until I
 TR> discovered that they occasionally "bury" information which hurts their
 TR> causes.

 No actually teachers. Some from highschool others from Upward Bound
 And some from college. They show me both sides of the
 story.  They're is nothing wrong with greenpeace.  They
 are trying their best to turn things that are negative into something
 positive, who are the ROFL?  As for burying info which hurts their causes
 everyone does that, especially the major business.

Despite all the safe guards and etc, and despite all the energy that we can
get, I'm frightened by the dangerousness nuclear energy.  The energy does
not even come from the split atoms.  The electricity is made form steam.
The steam comes from the water cooling down the core reactor.  The steam
turns all these doohickies, that turn turbines with magnets in them.  I don't
think the risk is worth it.  I do not agree either with coal or fossil fuel
despite what others think.  I think that they're are much more safer and
saner ways of getting energy.  wind, solar, geothermal, and hydroelectric,
like niagra falls.  I don't like the though of using stuff that can level
cities and leave behind destruction and death even years later.  It can
infilltrate  ground water if people are not careful. etc etc.  We can't
even handle fossil fuels without hurting the enviroment and people.
To keep in topic and this is also something that has been in my mind since
I read the comic book, Zealot.  She was saying to one of her foes Prometheous
about Nuclear energy.  "Humans aren't ready to handle even something primitive
as nuclear weapons."  yes I know weapons aren't the same as the plants, but
in my mind they are, same energy, it is a fire, and fire is a dangerous
thing once out of control.  It doesn't take much either to get it out of
control.  For me the cons outway the pros for nuclear energy.  Besides maybe
just maybe we are upsetting another of earths cycles.  We don't even truly
understand her most basic of cycles.  Things like the water, wind, food
cycles.


... I live in a world of my own, but you're welcome to visit.
--- Blue Wave v2.12 [NR]
 * Origin: The Cereal Port BBS (OS/2) Rindge,NH 603-899-3335 (1:132/152)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 11 of 225
 From : Phill Ash                           1:275/160       .óá 06 .íâ 96 08:02
 To   : Bianca Wesslak
 Subj : nuclear
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE 1.11+
From astride a Pale Horse, ùANATúô heard...

 PA> Has it ever occurred to you that this planet can only support
 PA> so many lifeforms? War is just a method by which the population
 PA> is decreased, as is illness.

 BW> actually it has, when i am in one of my morbid moods.  I agree with
 BW> you there i just do not want to.  I am an optamist and an idealist at
 BW> heart. at present I cannot come up with a better solution.  Then again
 BW> I am not so sure I believe in darwins theory of evolution.

        I'm an idealist of the highest order and it's plain to me that,
        due to the advances in medicine and refinement of food and fuel,
        humanity (as a whole) is slowly becoming stupider and weaker.

        Honestly speaking, (and think this one *all the way* through)
        what would you do if, when you woke up in the morning, there was
        no electricity - anywhere in the world?

 PA> Call it God, Goddess, Fate or Space Aliens; the fact remains
 PA> that when too many people are gathered in one place, there
 PA> cannot be serenity.

 BW> how many people exacly is too many.  in many other cultures other than
 BW> ours, people can gather and live in a peaceful, relatively,
 BW> coexhistance. it all deals with how comfortable space is to you,
 BW> privacy, etc etc.  I guess space is what is gonna decide for us, how we

        No.  It depends on how willing you are to share the land with
        others.  Is it easier for you to go out with 10 others and grow
        and harvest corn, or is it easier for you to take the corn from
        another?

 BW> will go about exploring space or how we build space stations.  I also
 BW> think war has a lot more to it than people being cramned into each
 BW> other.  granting that is probably one factor,  war is a more complex
 BW> issue.  but to get this message back on topic, how bout looking at some
 BW> issues that a lot of sci fi and fantasy authors  usually go on saying
 BW> are the reasons for their wars?  how bout Raymond E.  Feist., that
 BW> would probably illustrate space, yet they had the power to go to other
 BW> worlds with that one.

        Nope.  Never read any Feist <G>  Howzabout Harry Turtledove's
        "WorldWar" series (book II should be out in paperback soon)... 6
        months after Pearl Harbor - the Aliens invade.  It's one hell of
        an examination of socio-political standards and their positive
        and negative uses.

 PA> Nuclear power and nuclear waste *are not* going to kill this
 PA> planet.  Humanity *is not* going to kill this planet.

 BW> raised eyebrows at the mention of above, sorry getting
 BW> cynical.

 PA> The Vogons will...

 BW> ?????, who art, they???

        awwww!
        c'mon!
                Don't tell me you've never heard the radio program, read
                the book, seen the BBC series, heard the album, read the
                "photonovel" of "The Hitch-Hiker's Guide to the
                Galaxy"!!!





Your pal:  PhlAsh
... Memory will slowly fade.  I lift my eyes and say, "C'mon, take me away!"
---
 * thanatos@infi.net *
~~~ ReneWave v1.01 [NR]
--- Smile :)
 * Origin: * The Beast's Lair * (804)498-3070 * Va Beach VA * (1:275/160)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 12 of 225
 From : Frank Swarbrick                     1:104/825       .óá 06 .íâ 96 00:05
 To   : Robert Lidgren
 Subj : NOWHERE MAN
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12  92-0022
On 01-03-96  10:20 My Very Good Friend Robert Lidgren said:

 RL> NOWHERE MAN FANS:

 RL> I've just discovered the series Nowhere Man starring Bruce Greenwood
 RL> as the "man on the run," Tom Veil.

Warning, don't read this message if you don't want to be spoiled by
information on episodes you may not have seen...

I will try to answer your questions, but if the answers are vague or
non-existant it's only because the answers have not been given in the
show.  I've seen all 12 episodes to date.  At the bottom I'll try to
do a short synopsis of each episode.

 RL> Now, what I'd like to know is more about the story line to date.

 RL> 1.  Who is this group which seems to want to use any method to get at
 RL> Tom's film and his diary?

Absolutely unknown.  There is obviously some sort of group out to find
Tom and get his negatives, but next to nothing is known about them.
They do seem to have control of some sort of paramilitary group.

 RL> 2.  Am I correct in concluding that, at one time, Tom Veil was placed
 RL> in an insane asylum by this group in an effort to coerce him into
 RL> cooperating?

Yes, in the first episode.  I'll explain more below.

 RL> 3.  Is there anything else in Tom's set of negative that the "group"
 RL> seems to want to get from him?

It has yet to be revealed.

 RL> 4.  What role, if any has his wife played in this conspiracy.  I.E. do
 RL> you get the impression she is some innocent victim too or is she
 RL> part of the process of "taking out" Tom Veil?

Hard to say.  She's been in two episodes so far (well, three, but one
was just a fantasy).  In both it's possible that she's part of the
conspiracy, but we can't tell if she's doing it voluntarily or if
she's being coerced.  Honestly, it's hard to believe she's being
coerced, yet it's hard to see why she would do it otherwise.

 RL> 5.  At any point in the series, has there appeared ANYONE who is
 RL> playing an on-going supporter for Tom?  If there has not, he really
 RL> IS up to his a** in "alligators!" <g>

Other than Allyson being in two episodes, and a few flashbacks, I
don't think anyone other than Veil has even been in more than one
episode.

 RL> I would appreaciate any input you can provide for me to help me
 RL> get "up to speed."

Here's my summaries.  Please take in to account that, other than the
pilot and one other I've only seen each episode once, on the original
airing.  I'm sure I will get some minor points incorrect, but that's
ok...  I do have them all recorded (except one), but haven't rewatched
them yet.

There are some spoilers, as I said, but most are about the first
episode just to get the story going.

1.  Aug 28, 1995  "Absolute Zero"  [90 minutes]

Tom and his wife are at an opening of a showing of Tom's photos.
Afterward they go out for dinner.  Tom goes into the bathroom, and
when he comes out another couple is seated at his table.  The maitre'
d, a personal friend, claims not to know him and says that the other
couple always sits there on this day of the week (I think).  Tom
thinks it's a joke, but ends up getting thrown out of the restaraunt.
He makes his way to his house and his key won't fit in the door.  He
rings the doorbell and Allyson answers, claiming not to know him and
telling him to leave.  Then Allyson's "husband" comes to door with a
gun.  Tom finally leaves.  [this is getting too long, I'll try to skim
more.]

No one will admit to knowing Tom.  He's bank says he doesn't exist.
At some point he is taken to a mental institution.  It turns out one
of the doctors, Dr. Belamy, is working for "them."  At some point Tom
sees Allyson talking with Dr. Belamy.  After Tom escapes from Belamy
he goes to see his estranged mother, who it turns out is on his
deathbed.  Even so, when questioned she claims to have no son.  Ends
with Tom wandering out on a highway in the middle of nowhere.

Wonderful directing in this episode.  A wonderful "shower scene"
with a twist.

  2.  Sep  4, 1995  "Turnabout"

I don't remember exactly how, but Tom manages to end up at a facility
controlled by "them," and poses as Dr. Belamy.  He ends up being made
to help erase someone elses life.  Of course, in the end it ends up
being a setup, with the intended "victim" being one of them.  She's
supposed to get his guard down so he'll confide in her.

  3.  Sep 11, 1995  "The Incredible Derek"

I have little memory of this one.  Tom ends up helping a blind kid
who's some sort of faith healer.

  4.  Sep 18, 1995  "Something About Her"

My personal favorite episode.  Tom is kidnapped and drugged and hooked
up to a kind of "virtual reality" thing.  Memories of a whole other
life are fed into him.  He's given a new lover who's goal, of course,
is to make him trust her so he'll confide in her.  Lots of mind games.
Great stuff.

  5.  Sep 25, 1995  "Paradise On Your Doorstep"

Tom ends up at New Phoenix, a colony of other people just like Tom,
who's lives have been erased.  To become "one of them" he must tell
the others about his old life and why it was erased.  Tom, of course,
thinks they're part of the conspiracy as well and won't tell them.  In
the end we don't really know whether or not this was true.  A very
"Prisoner" like episode it seems, though I've only seen two or three
Prisoner episodes.

  6.  Oct  9, 1995  "The Spider Webb"

Bizzare!  Tom's in a bar watching TV and he sees his life as portrayed
in the pilot episode played out as a local access TV show!!  As the
episode goes on we see parts of the pilot redone with different
actors.  Then we see events happen on the "show" followed by Veil
doing these same things.  (Or was it the other way around...?)  Of
course, the final scene where the TV actor playing Tom's life gets
caught doesn't happen in "real life."  The real Tom outsmarts them.

  7.  Oct 23, 1995  "A Rough Whimper of Insanity"

Tom meets up with an introverted computer genius who hasn't been out
of his house in years.  He's able to hack into the super secret files
that show that Tom Veil really does exist.  He and Tom end up going
into virtual reality (moreso than in "Something About Her") to get
access to the files, but the bad guys find them before they're able to
read them.

The title is an anagram for "information superhighway."

  8.  Oct 30, 1995  "The Alpha Spike"

Tom poses as a janitor at some sort of private school where the kids
are being brainwashed by subliminal messages while they sleep.
Doesn't have all that much to do with the conspiracy until, of course,
they find him towards the end.

  9.  Nov  6, 1995  "You Really Got A Hold Me"

Dean Stockwell guests as a man who's life was "erased" 20 years ago or
so.  He's "Tom in 20 years," dejected, and ready to give up.  He
brings Tom so a secret building that houses hundreds of computers.  He
says it used to be where they did all this nasty erasing stuff, but
it's now abandoned.

 10.  Nov 13, 1995  "Father"

Tom ends up in the same town where his father now lives.  He's father
had left his family when Tom was young.  His appearance has been
changed, I'm not sure the reason given.  Vanity, I think.  Many clues
are given for Tom to think that his father is part of the conspiracy.

 11.  Nov 20, 1995  "An Enemy Within"

Another episode not much related to the overall story.  More like a
Fugitive episode where he helps someone with a problem.  Here it's a
woman, and a town, who's small farms are being bought out by a huge
co-op farm.

 12.  Nov 27, 1995  "It's Not Such A Wonderful Life"

Tom gets his life back!  Or does he.  Tom is found by people claiming
to be part of the government.  They say they're about to arrest the
ringleaders of the bad guys, and Tom is key witness for the
prosecution.  All they need from him to nail it shut are those darn
negatives...  Allyson is back, but she never really explains what made
her go along with them.  His mother, who he thought died back in the
first episode, is alive.  (I swear it's a different actress, though,
as she seemed much older in the pilot.)  The ending is rather obvious,
so I won't bother with it.  Interesting, but somewhat predictable
concidering they couldn't have the series end already!

That's it so far.  I'm hoping for new episodes soon.  All in all, it's
an interesting show, but little to nothing is revealed in each
episode.  I guess they're planning for a long run, but it gets a
little frustrating.

        Frank

... I'm a creature of habit.  All the bad ones.
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12
 * Origin: The Bailey Information Exchange BBS, 28.8k v.fc  (1:104/825.0)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 13 of 225
 From : Frank Swarbrick                     1:104/825       .óá 06 .íâ 96 00:10
 To   : Rudy Hardy
 Subj : Space: Above & Beyond Epi
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12  92-0022
On 12-27-95  12:12 My Very Good Friend Rudy Hardy said:

 RH> Hello All,

 RH> Does someone have the episode list of the series "Space: Above &
 RH> Beyond". Thanks in advance.

Space: Above and Beyond  created by Glen Morgan and James Wong
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Ep#.    Air Date    Episode Title
====  ============  ================================
  1.  Sep 24, 1995  "Pilot" [2 hours]
  2.  Oct  1, 1995  "The Farthest Man From Home"
  3.  Oct  8, 1995  "The Dark Side Of The Sun"
  4.  Oct 15, 1995  "Mutiny"
  5.  Oct 22, 1995  "Ray Butts"
  6.  Oct 29, 1995  "Eyes"
  7.  Nov 12, 1995  "The Enemy"
  8.  Nov 19, 1995  "Hostile Visit" (Part 1 of 2)
  9.  Nov 26, 1995  "Choice Or Chance" (Part 2 of 2)
 10.  Dec  3, 1995  "Stay With The Dead"
 11.  Dec 17, 1995  "The River Of Stars"

For actual episode descriptions you'll have to ask someone else.

        Frank

... There's someone in my head, but it's not me.
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12
 * Origin: The Bailey Information Exchange BBS, 28.8k v.fc  (1:104/825.0)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 14 of 225
 From : Michael Rowe                        1:134/125       .óá 06 .íâ 96 20:36
 To   : Roelof Otten
 Subj : X-files
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
go bite yourself


--- Maximus 2.02
 * Origin: View of the Rockies 403-291-6721 Calgary AB (1:134/125)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 15 of 225
 From : Michael Rowe                        1:134/125       .óá 06 .íâ 96 20:41
 To   : Steve Thomas
 Subj : elfquest
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
i am sort of an elfquest fan.

                     ^  ^
                     0  0
                      /\

                  \_______/


--- Maximus 2.02
 * Origin: View of the Rockies 403-291-6721 Calgary AB (1:134/125)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 16 of 225
 From : Darren Lovatt                       2:201/190       .cê 07 .íâ 96 17:55
 To   : Christian Kent
 Subj : Red Dwarf / TNG crossover
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 > JK> CK> Can somebody please send me the Red Dwarf / Star Trek:TNG crossover?
 > JK> CK> I've got to see that subplot with Riker and Data again!
 > JK> Thought I was a Red Dwarf fan... Whazzat crossover you're
 > JK> talking about?

 > Someone on this echo or a related echo told me where to
 > find it ... I've been a bit busy so please hang on (I want
 > to ask for it to be netmailed to me).

I have 2 or 3 texts writen by fans of RD on the Star Trek /RD theme ! I could
post it in small sections here if you like or it's available from the address
below at your own expense !

Regards
/Darren

--- GEcho 1.00
 * Origin: ÄÄÍ(Detroit Rock City)ÍÄÄ +46-8-870055, Sweden (2:201/190)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 17 of 225
 From : Bianca Wesslak                      1:132/152       .ÿò 05 .íâ 96 00:49
 To   : Steve Thomas
 Subj : elfquest
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
From a woman with an overactive imagination.

 ST> Hi!

 Allo.

 ST> Any Elfquest fans on here?

yep.  Granted I have just got into it.


... Never knock on Death's door.  Ring the bell and run.  He HATES that!
--- Blue Wave v2.12 [NR]
 * Origin: The Cereal Port BBS (OS/2) Rindge,NH 603-899-3335 (1:132/152)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 18 of 225
 From : Judy Hayes                          1:154/40        .cê 07 .íâ 96 10:39
 To   : Lori Brown
 Subj : Re: ST Voyager
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

->Quoshara grinned at The and said, "ST Voyager? No problem!"

 LB> I'm afraid I don't understand "Polyanna?" Who is that?

 TR> Re:  Old Disney movies.  You can probably find it at a
 TR> blockbuster.

I'll elaborate.

Pollyanna was a little girl who could find something to be glad about in
anything that happened.

Her father was a very poor Missionary.  She wanted a doll very badly and since
everything they got came in donation barrels, she asked the donater for one.
When the next barrel arrived there was no doll in it...just a pair of crutches.
At first she was upset but then decided that she could be "glad" because
she didn't need to use the crutches.

When her father died, she was sent to live with her rich aunt (who wasn't very
thrilled with the idea).  She was put in a very tiny attic room with old
cast-off furniture and poor ventilation.  She was "glad" because she'd never
had a whole room all to herself and that, being so high up in the house, she
had a very good view.

Get the picture?

Therefore, a Pollyanna is someone who can always find the best in anything and
tends to wear rose-colored glasses.

      --Quoshara, the ever off-topic




... Don't hit me, Mr. Moderator... I'll go back on topic... I swear!
---
 * Origin: Anonymous BBS -=- Non plus Ultra -=- 414-251-2580 (1:154/40)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 19 of 225
 From : J.T. Smith                          1:132/152       .óá 06 .íâ 96 17:24
 To   : Piotr W. Cholewa
 Subj : nuclear
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Contact has been made.

 MD> Nuclear power is the most cost-effective and nearly the safest.
 JW>  Until it fucks up...look under 'Chernobyl' or 'Three Mile
 JW> Island'
 PWC> Sorry, but AFAIK they were not "technique" failures, but rather design
 PWC> errors. Chernobyl is a human error.

 As long as errors are capable of entering the equation, Nuclear power is
 still extremely dangerous.  TMI is now trying to cyphon (sp?) off the
 radioactive wastewater that has been left behind there into the atmosphere.
 Gee, just what I've always wanted.  No thanks.


... Ah yes, poor friend. I hear he's fruity as a nut cake.
--- Blue Wave v2.12 [NR]
 * Origin: The Cereal Port BBS (OS/2) Rindge,NH 603-899-3335 (1:132/152)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 20 of 225
 From : J.T. Smith                          1:132/152       .óá 06 .íâ 96 17:37
 To   : ROBERT LIDGREN
 Subj : VIRTUAL SEX
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Contact has been made.

 -> Too much of a good thing, it seems....
 RL> Something HAS GONE WRONG when the concept of virtual sex rears its
 RL> head (no pun intended)...  Seems to me that virtual sex is a
 RL> non-starter...sort of like virtual chocolate!
 RL> I don't think so!
 RL> Interacting with people face-to-face has got to be better than
 RL> EXCLUSIVELY meeting people on the Internet or the Fido Net.
 RL> Virtual sex - does it lead to virtual families...?
 RL> An interesting concept but, I think, distasteful in the extreme...

 Well, I can think of instances where it wouldn't be such a bad thing.  I
 mean, there are people that I wouldn't mind sleeping with, but if I did, me
 fiance would kill me.  OTOH, in the virtual realm, ye could experiment and
 nae anyone would get hurt.  Only an idea.  (Besides, in the same vein, ye
 could possibly experiment with ideas that ye've always wanted to try but are
 socially unacceptable.  In this realm, what other people don't know canna
 hurt ye.)


... "You mean canola oil is for cooking?" - Duckman
--- Blue Wave v2.12 [NR]
 * Origin: The Cereal Port BBS (OS/2) Rindge,NH 603-899-3335 (1:132/152)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 21 of 225
 From : J.T. Smith                          1:132/152       .óá 06 .íâ 96 17:42
 To   : Steve Thomas
 Subj : elfquest
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Contact has been made.

 ST> Hi!
 ST> Any Elfquest fans on here?

 Ye may want to send a message to Bianca Wesslak.  Although she's only
 recently gotten into it, she is a big fan.


... "My bite is worse than my bark." - Buzzsaw, Decepticon
--- Blue Wave v2.12 [NR]
 * Origin: The Cereal Port BBS (OS/2) Rindge,NH 603-899-3335 (1:132/152)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 22 of 225
 From : Channon Lang                        1:130/809       .îí 08 .íâ 96 04:34
 To   : Trevor Pack
 Subj : Re: X-files
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE 1.11+
From a dark bottemless pit,All screamed up to Trevor Pack about X-files..

 TP> @MSGID: 1:134/125.0 30eecee2
 TP> @PATH: 134/125 1 17 3615/50 396/1 130/1008 509 35
 TP> Did anybody see the one on killer cockroaches? Want to talk about it.

OOOOOOOOOo I watched about 5 mins, and couldn't stand anymore! It gave me the
creeps! But then again, it kinda reminded me of the Philippines....that
place gave me the creeps too....

Most of the time I enjoy X-Files...but I couldn't watch that!

C


... Sigh....hgiS....
--- MachoEcho 0.5ñ
 * Origin: The State of Confusion * Arlington Tx * 817-274-1920 * (1:130/809)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 23 of 225
 From : Don Dellmann                        1:154/40        .îí 08 .íâ 96 06:30
 To   : Bianca Wesslak
 Subj : nuclear BS
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
While tripping merrily through the mail, Bianca Wesslak was overheard

 BW> From a woman with an overactive imagination.
 BW> Than what did happen at three mile Island?????.
 TR> A leak.  A very minor leak, to tell you the truth.  As I've said
 TR> three or four times so far, you'd get more radiation from just sitting
 TR> in the capital building.

I've been trying to resist replying to this thread for weeks, since
it's obviously off topic, but I just can't help myself any longer.

 BW> Question what they going to do with all the radiactive stuff in
 BW> the plant.  for instance the water.  If it was just a 'minor' leak
 BW> why isn't it still being used.  Or can they not fix that minor leak.
 TR> Who?  Greenpeace?  ROFL!  I worked for them for a while, until I
 TR> discovered that they occasionally "bury" information which hurts their
 TR> causes.

One unit at Three Mile Island is still down because the cost to put the
rector back on line is more than it's worth.  It's not radiation danger,
it's strictly economics.  It's as if your car was wrecked in an accident,
and the insurance company says it's not worth fixing, and it'd cost you
more to haul it to the junkyard than the junkyard will pay you, so it
sits behind your garage.

The ONE MOST IMPORTANT POINT about the whole Three Mile Island incident
that everybody misses, is that it proved once and for all, how SAFE
Nuclear power really is.  The worst accident that could happen, lack of
cooling and core meltdown, happened, and, outside the containment area,
radiation NEVER exceeded safe levels.

 BW> No actually teachers. Some from highschool others from Upward Bound
 BW> And some from college. They show me both sides of the
 BW> story.  They're is nothing wrong with greenpeace.  They
 BW> are trying their best to turn things that are negative into something
 BW> positive, who are the ROFL?  As for burying info which hurts their
 BW> causes everyone does that, especially the major business.

Greenpeace is one of the greatest threats to our freedom there is.  Their
political agenda is to control our country the way they want to control
it, and the methods they use are criminal, in fact felonious, by the
laws of every civilized nation in the world.

 BW> Despite all the safe guards and etc, and despite all the energy that
 BW> we can get, I'm frightened by the dangerousness nuclear energy.  The
 BW> energy does  not even come from the split atoms.  The electricity is
 BW> made form steam. The steam comes from the water cooling down the core
 BW> reactor.  The steam turns all these doohickies, that turn turbines with
 BW> magnets in them.  I don't think the risk is worth it.  I do not agree

You've got cause & effect turned around here a little, The reactor heats
water (just like burning coal), which is then fed through a heat exchanger
to heat more water which does not become radioactive, which runs the turbines
that create your power.

 BW> either with coal or fossil fuel despite what others think.  I think

Gee, last time I checked coal IS "Fossil fuel" <G>

 BW> that they're are much more safer and  saner ways of getting energy.
 BW> wind, solar, geothermal, and hydroelectric, like niagra falls.  I don't
 BW> like the though of using stuff that can level cities and leave behind
 BW> destruction and death even years later.  It can infilltrate  ground

Wind is not reliable, geothermal is only available in a very few parts of the
world and still relies on heat creating steam, Dams for hydro destroy large
areas of the forest by creating resevoirs, (and what about the tremendous
loss of life if a Dam "breaks"), and you would not believe how many people
have had their houses burn down because of poor;y maintained solar collectors
on the roof.

 BW> water if people are not careful. etc etc.  We can't  even handle fossil
 BW> fuels without hurting the enviroment and people.   To keep in topic and
 BW> this is also something that has been in my mind since I read the comic
 BW> book, Zealot.  She was saying to one of her foes Prometheous about
 BW> Nuclear energy.  "Humans aren't ready to handle even something
 BW> primitive as nuclear weapons."  yes I know weapons aren't the same as
 BW> the plants, but in my mind they are, same energy, it is a fire, and
 BW> fire is a dangerous thing once out of control.  It doesn't take much
 BW> either to get it out of  control.  For me the cons outway the pros for

Fine, you are afraid of fire, you go huddle in the cold in your cave, hunt
for your food and try to keep warm in your animal skin (oh, I'm sorry, you
don't kill animals either, I guess you'll just have to live on berries
in the jungle).

 BW> nuclear energy.  Besides maybe just maybe we are upsetting another of
 BW> earths cycles.  We don't even truly  understand her most basic of
 BW> cycles.  Things like the water, wind, food  cycles.

If man was not meant to overcome nature, he would have never evolved on
this earth.

Don



... Don't blame me for gravity; I voted for Velcro.
---
 * Origin: Anonymous BBS -=- Non plus Ultra -=- 414-251-2580 (1:154/40)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 24 of 225
 From : Jackson Raster                      1:3637/77       .cê 07 .íâ 96 11:58
 To   : Darre Luallen
 Subj : Re: Cybersex
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Wow...a local...<grin>
-JTR
---
--- WcToss for WildCat!  V1.8 [UnReg]
 * Origin: Coles Kingdom BBS 615-657-5708 14.4KBPS! (1:3637/77)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 25 of 225
 From : Jackson Raster                      1:3637/77       .cê 07 .íâ 96 12:05
 To   : Nicolai Shapero
 Subj : Re: More faves...
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
I feel I had every right to be upset, considering that I was given no
reasonable chance to comply, and then threatened. I responded in the
only way I felt was logical. If you are irritated, my apologies. I was
merely stating the view from my side. I truly enjoy this echo. If you
were on an echo, and somCl
eone sent you three warning and a threat before you had a chance to r8n
eply, how would *you* feel?
I had no intentiXGon of being rude. doIB'm usually quite civil.
-JTR
---
--- WcToss for WildCat!  V1.8 [UnReg]
 * Origin: Coles Kingdom BBS 615-657-5708 14.4KBPS! (1:3637/77)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 26 of 225
 From : Michael Harper                      1:123/10        .åò 04 .íâ 96 19:07
 To   : Eric Reinholt
 Subj : Re: Quark
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 -=> Over coffee and beignets, Eric Reinholt told Michael Harper all about

  Quark...

 ER> Weren't those girls "The Bettys"?

 MH>  Yep. One was a clone of the other, and they were constantly arguing
 MH>  over which was which...

 ER> HA HA HA!  Yes!  That was it!  I used to love those arguments!

 ER> Thanks.

 You're welcome. God, that show was warped. I only got to see it a few
 times because of scheduling conflicts, but I laughed myself sick every
 time...


... "It's over there, behind that Roddenberry bush..."
--- RA/FD/FMail
 * Origin: The Electric Fox - Memphis,TN, U.S.A.  1-901-327-1008 (1:123/10)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 27 of 225
 From : Michael Harper                      1:123/10        .cê 07 .íâ 96 13:56
 To   : Lawrence E Dunlap
 Subj : Re: tv and sf
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 -=> Over coffee and beignets, Lawrence E Dunlap told Kevin Ahearn all about

  tv and sf...

 LED> My issue is the manner in which the (obviously materialistic)
 LED> creative community openly admits severely educationally compromised
 LED> producers into their ranks.

 There's a lot of nepotism and toadying involved; also, at least in sf,
 99% of the Hollywood creative community knows nothing about the genre.
 The ones that're literate in that field are mostly in lower-echelon
 jobs.

 LED> In any alternative television occupation such as media news
 LED> journalism or the technical television occupations, such analogs of
 LED> the educationally compromised producers wouldn't make the final cut
 LED> for the *first* interview.

 Agreed. But again, as with any job these days, it's who you know that
 gets you in the door.

 LED> The defectives seem to be liberally indulged in their unworkable
 LED> flights of fancy which sometimes make a great amount of unexpected
 LED> money. I suspect there are times when these are loathed when
 LED> obnoxiously insouciant with some more literate producer or outsider.

 Exactly. Most of Hollywood despises Chris Columbus, f'rinstance, but
 would never admit it because the guy's a moneymaker. When he starts his
 downhill slide, the backstabbers will appear in droves. I personally
 can't stand the man because I consider him a hack who isn't fit to
 carry the pencil case of a real writer; and yet this yutz is
 responsible for both _Gremlins_ and _Mrs. Doubtfire_, both of which
 were serious cash cows. Thus illustrating the point; you don't have to
 be good to make it in Hollywood, just persistent and lucky. Good is
 icing on the cake. Straczynski is an excellent example of that. Joe
 started out writing for _Masters Of The Universe_, mostly because he
 watched an episode, thought "Hell, I can write better than this", ran
 off a script in the correct format, and sent it in, figuring nothing
 would happen. Next thing ya know, they're calling him, asking him to
 come work for them. Miracles do happen...

 LED> Producers like Roddenberry (in his time) and Stracyznski today now
 LED> make up the distant exceptions which rise above the multitude of
 LED> generally good and preponderantly poor television producers, not
 LED> even discussing *bad sf tv producers* in the same breath.

 But we're talking about a field of creative endeavor where mediocrity
 is the norm. The Suits, as Joe calls them, the beancounters, are the
 ones truly at fault here. Mediocre and outright bad producers have been
 around the entertainment biz for bloody ever. Some of them achieve some
 bit of prominence; Irwin Allen was no paragon of literacy, I can tell
 you right now. And Roddenberry himself was willing to do whatever it
 took to get Trek on the air, and had no compunctions about butchering a
 writer's work in order to make certain that it fit what he wanted. The
 reason SeaQuest died so rapidly after the first season was because the
 studio bigwigs ran Rockne O'Bannon off and stuck Patrick Hasburgh in
 the producer's job. Hasburgh knows zip about the genre, but he can give
 the bosses what they want, so he gets the job. What the bosses want is
 a safe, bland, inoffensive show that'll sell lots of Diet Coke and
 Oxydol to the audience; they don't want anyone watching to think about
 the show, they just want them to be mildly entertained while the
 product isn't being pitched.

 LED> What I'm wishing for is a housecleaning of educational defectives
 LED> from TV and movie studios at the hands of several fairly visionary
 LED> media executive leaders who will expect nothing less than substantial
 LED> capacity to be inspired, challenged and motivated to produce "high
 LED> quality" yet accessible productions because of their exposure to
 LED> modern and classical literature and arts. Most of our classical
 LED> literature was populist writings that struck an echo in successive
 LED> generations.

 Don't look for it anytime soon. It's a wonderful thing to wish for, but
 it won't happen unless we do it ourselves.

 LED> Next is a housecleaning of advertising agency executives who lower
 LED> the denominators of the concepts in TV that corrupts the average
 LED> viewer to accept literal *sewage*.

 Again, as long as it sells soap, the ad execs don't care. People like
 you and I are the exception, not the rule. The rule is the thirty-five
 year-old construction worker who watches American Gladiators and Cops.
 He's got a wife who's five or more years younger than him, six kids, a
 pickup, a bad-tempered Doberman, and an eighteen-year-old college
 cheerleader he's fooling around with on the side. He's got maybe a GED
 with a year or two of trade school. And this guy is who the ad execs
 are aiming at, him and his wife. He'll gladly chew on what the tube
 spews, because he doesn't know or care that there's anything better.
 This guy finds Trek incomprehensible, and it's one of the most
 accessible sf series on the air. He reads low-grade technothrillers and
 maybe understands every other word. His wife reads V.C. Andrews and
 Danielle Steel. He's Joe Average, and the only place he ever heard of
 literature was when they forced him to read Dickens and Hemingway and
 Steinbeck in English class; his only exposure sf has been Trek, and he
 didn't understand it.

 LED> I would prefer the literacy of British TV producers to the American
 LED> defectives. American TV houses don't expect enough of their employees
 LED> or their executives. American ad executives are educationally further
 LED> down the food chain and function with even less integrity than the
 LED> production house workers.

 Yeah, but again, it's not what you know, it's who you know, and how
 good at kissing ass you are. This isn't likely to change either, at
 least not anytime soon.

 LED> The *Hallmark Cards Showcase* has produced excellent models for
 LED> non-s.f. productions. The Hallmark producers' attention to high
 LED> concept with a collateral exertion to tie in to common themes in the
 LED> humanities has garnered awards that has caused the company to be
 LED> lauded richly and loudly nearly every year.

 Yeah, but they've been at it since the Fifties. They have the seniority
 that a lot of organisations don't.

 LED> I suggest that similar care and devotion to high art in the hands
 LED> of a sufficiently literate and developed production house could lift
 LED> sf tv as well, if a strong-spirited visionary will take charge of a
 LED> studio invest in that producer even as he clears out deadwood
 LED> educational defectives and brings commonly literate producers and
 LED> workers.
 LED> *That* studio needs to stay clear of the advertising agency houses
 LED> that make American TV so puerile.

 Good luck finding somebody like that, or a studio like that. It won't
 happen in our lifetimes.


... The world: A comedy for thinkers and a tragedy for feelers.
--- RA/FD/FMail
 * Origin: The Electric Fox - Memphis,TN, U.S.A.  1-901-327-1008 (1:123/10)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 28 of 225
 From : Marco Catalano                      2:2802/152.3    .pä 03 .íâ 96 16:07
 To   : Aaron Turon
 Subj : Star Trek Voyager
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Hello Aaron!


Thursday December 28 1995, Aaron Turon writes to All:

 AT> I liked that episode where Nealix( that's probably spelled wrong, but I
 AT> don't know how to spell it) lungs get taken out.

It sounds cool allright! Were they ripped out of his body, or surgically
removed? I hope they were torn out by some very powerfull alien, with alot of
blood and a painfully long death-struggle! ;)

 AT>  There are a lot of other
 AT> good ones, so if you know any and would like to discuss with me, just
 AT> e-mail! thanks :)

Sure thing, Aaron.
We're all SF fans here.


Greetings from Marco
BYE!



... Every day, yet unnoticed, life gets a little better !

--- FMail/386 1.02
 * Origin: Zeta Reticuli. There's life, Jim! But not as... (2:2802/152.3)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 29 of 225
 From : Marco Catalano                      2:2802/152.3    .ÿò 05 .íâ 96 10:31
 To   : Samantha Dobbs
 Subj : Space: Above & Beyond
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Hello Samantha!


Saturday December 30 1995, Samantha Dobbs writes to All:

 SD> Are there any fan out there?

Dunno yet, Samantha.

The pilot of SAAB is airing in the Netherlands tomorrow.
So aks again about a week from now.


Greetings from Marco
BYE!



... This tagline is made just for Samantha

--- FMail/386 1.02
 * Origin: Specially made for Samantha! (2:2802/152.3)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 30 of 225
 From : Rene Nieuwenhuizen                  2:512/5.9       .óá 06 .íâ 96 01:55
 To   : Samantha Dobbs
 Subj : Space: Above & Beyond
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.GIF: RENE
Hello Samantha!

30 Dec 95 09:04, Samantha Dobbs wrote to All:

 SD> Are there any fan out there?

Well, I don't know yet because we will get the pilot on tv tomorrow, but I will
tell you when I've seen it...

 SD> Sam...

EnjoY!
Rene

--- FMail 1.02
 * Origin: I walk the maze of moments (2:512/5.9)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 31 of 225
 From : Rene Nieuwenhuizen                  2:512/5.9       .óá 06 .íâ 96 02:00
 To   : Sean Cooper
 Subj : Star Trek
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.GIF: RENE
Hello Sean!

31 Dec 95 21:39, Sean Cooper wrote to Rene Nieuwenhuizen:

 SC> RE: Star Trek
 SC> BY: Rene Nieuwenhuizen to Aaron Turon on Thu Dec 28 1995 14:06:01

 >> I only tape them on the BBC because the dutch
 >> subtitels are a bit anoying I think :-)
 SC> DUTCH SUBTITLES, DEAR GOD, I HAVE TROUBLE READING ENGLISH, LET ALONE
 SC> DEUTCH...

That's the reason why I rather watch Startrek on the BBC, I don't like to read a
movie but I like to watch them ;-)

EnjoY!
Rene

--- FMail 1.02
 * Origin: I walk the maze of moments (2:512/5.9)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 32 of 225
 From : Nicolai Shapero                     1:102/524       .cê 07 .íâ 96 10:09
 To   : Phill Ash
 Subj : nuclear
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Jan 06 08:02>, Phill Ash (1:275/160) wrote to Bianca Wesslak:

 PA>        Honestly speaking, (and think this one *all the way*
 PA>through)
 PA>        what would you do if, when you woke up in the morning,
 PA>there was
 PA>        no electricity - anywhere in the world?

If we lost our current high tech level completely and unrecoverably, what would
happen is that most of us would die.  Not because we were stupid, not because we
were weak, but because we've put more people in most high tech areas than could
be supported without that high tech.  Los Angeles (where I'm living right now)
is a sub-desert area.  Without the aqueducts, we don't have enough water for the
eighteen million people that live in this area.  No high tech, no water, no
people.  And being "smart" or "strong" would have very little to do with the
outcome.  With this many people in LA, and no resources to support them, the
most likely outcome is that ALL would die.

 PA> Call it God, Goddess, Fate or Space Aliens; the fact remains
 PA> that when too many people are gathered in one place, there
 PA> cannot be serenity.

Serenity is not from without.

-- Nicolai Shapero, the Mad Russian Sysop of StormGate Aerie

--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 33 of 225
 From : Joel Ranger                         1:256/105       .óá 06 .íâ 96 17:29
 To   : Robert Lidgren
 Subj : NOWHERE MAN
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
> I REALLY ENJOY WHAT I HAVE BEEN ABLE TO SEE SO FAR.  As I have echoed
> in a previous message, the connections with The Prisoner and, perhaps,
> The Fugitive, seem fairly strong ones but not to the point of disabling
> new thrusts of creativity.

I would have to agree...I wonder though how long they will try and keep
the series going....I would hate to see it go over 2-3 years, unless they
are very creative about the overall plot....

> Right now there are MANY MORE QUESTIONS than there are answer in this
> cross-country trek to find out why he is being followed, by whom, and
> what the full dimensions are in this conspiracy to a.  discredit him
> and b. to retrieve his negatives and diary.

Did you catch the episode with Dean Stockwell playing another
disenfranchised (New Phoenix term (sp?)) person....he explained why
'they' were after Tom..

> Thanks for your intelligent message and I look forward to further
> dialogue.  Cheers and all my best!

I hope to hear back from you as well..

Be seeing you!

Joel

> | My Personal Web Site----> http://www.logicnet.com/robert.lidgren   |

Thanks for posting your web site...I am a relative newbie when it comes
to 'surfing the web'....I really found some good material on it ....



... Wile E. Coyote, Sooooper Geeeenius!
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

--- FLAME v1.1
 * Origin: Certa Cito. Lanark County, Ontario. 613-264-8114 (1:256/105)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 34 of 225
 From : Robert Siemborski                   1:2604/214      .óá 06 .íâ 96 00:39
 To   : Michael Harper
 Subj : Re: Dangerous Babes
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 > MJ> That explains it.  I never watch S:A&B.  I couldn't get past the

Wow... I just realized, another acronym for Space Above And Beyond would be
SAAB, wouldn't it? ;-)

- Rob -

--- SLMAIL v4.5a  (#1409)
 * Origin: Bits 'N Bytes BBS - Leonia, NJ - (201) 346-1661 - 28.8k Connections!
(1:2604/214)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 35 of 225
 From : Robert Siemborski                   1:2604/214      .óá 06 .íâ 96 00:42
 To   : All
 Subj : B5 & The third age of mankind.
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
I recently heard this explanation for "The third age of mankind" on rastb5...
Don't let me know if you've heard it.  I think it's pretty funny...

Age 1: What do you want?  (Morden & his shadow friends?)
Age 2: Who are you? (Kosh?)
Age 3: Where do you want to go today? (Take a wild stab at this one)

Enjoy!

- Rob -

--- SLMAIL v4.5a  (#1409)
 * Origin: Bits 'N Bytes BBS - Leonia, NJ - (201) 346-1661 - 28.8k Connections!
(1:2604/214)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 36 of 225
 From : David Johnston                      1:342/14        .óá 06 .íâ 96 13:02
 To   : Chris Ogniben
 Subj : Sliders/any News?
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
-> Are you kidding?  Slider's is over dude, it's never coming back, and
-> it was a stupid series anyways, though i liked it back when it was on

Wrong, or at least probably wrong.  The project hasn't been totally
abandoned, although as I understand it (from the discussion of the
Slider's comic book), when it is re-introduced, it will include
interdimensional conquerors as regular enemies, perhaps in order to give
it more of a focus.  This refitted Sliders is supposedly being held in
reserve as another midseason replacement.

--- PCBoard (R) v15.21/100
 * Origin: Freddy's Place - Edm. AB - 28.8K (403) 456-4241 (1:342/14)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 37 of 225
 From : Nicolai Shapero                     1:102/524       .óá 06 .íâ 96 04:52
 To   : Ken Hawkins
 Subj : NUCLEAR
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Jan 04 12:13>, Ken Hawkins (1:102/0) wrote to Mark Jones:

 KH>    Proposals were to either bury it so deep that only a
 KH>technologically
 KH>advanced culture would be able to find the site (and assumably
 KH>uunderstand its nature), or design a cap for the site that would
 KH>be
 KH>universally recognized as a symbol of danger. The questionable
 KH>part is:
 KH>what would be a recognizable danger or warning to a totally alien
 KH>culture?

Barring a complete collapse of our civilization, I imagine that the purple
trefoil will remain a good warning.  If it's a totally alien group (presumably
from somewhere else here exploring) well...you know what they say about
pioneering.  (Pioneering is finding new and interesting ways to die.)

-- Nicolai Shapero, the Mad Russian Sysop of StormGate Aerie

--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 38 of 225
 From : Frank Glover                        1:2613/477      .åò 04 .íâ 96 22:27
 To   : Michael Harper
 Subj : Re: Dangerous Babes
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

MH>   Oh, yeah... <sigh> Definitely love dangerous women. The one I'm
MH>  chasing
MH>   now is taking about three forms of kung fu and can put an entire
MH>  clip
MH>   of 9mm into a one-inch circle...

   Whew! I certainly hope *she* likes *you!*

   Frank


--- QuickBBS 2.80 GoldBase (Zeta-1)
 * Origin: The Matrix Data Bank BBS, Rochester, Ny (1:2613/477)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 39 of 225
 From : Dallas Jones                        3:712/505       .cê 07 .íâ 96 02:08
 To   : All
 Subj : Whovention III - Continuity
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
                   WHOVENTION III - CONTINUITY
              13th National Doctor Who Convention
           In aid of SUDDEN INFANT DEATH ASSOCIATION

         Friday October 4th to Monday October 7th 1996

         Celebrating twenty years of Doctor Who Fandom

                       Guest of Honour

                       ELISABETH SLADEN

   "Sarah-Jane Smith" companion to the 3rd and 4th Doctors

                     FAN GUEST OF HOUNOUR

       TONY HOWE - founder of Australian Doctor Who fandom

           RYDGES NORTH SYDNEY - McLaren St North Sydney
Membership to June 30th 1996 - $100 (Can be paid in installmenst)
Concession and children under 16 - $80
               P.O. BOX 148 GLADESVILLE NSW 2111
         Make cheque and money orders payable to Continuity.
ACCOMMODATION - Single $100 per night, Double/twin $55 per night each

... Kill the Doctor... Kill the Doctor...
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
 * Origin: Sydney PC Users Group Mail Exchange (3:712/505)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 40 of 225
 From : ROBERT LIDGREN                      1:134/10        .óá 06 .íâ 96 18:57
 To   : PHILL ASH
 Subj : F&SF???
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
->       Doesn't anyone talk about Science Fiction & Fantasy anymore???
->
->       All I've seen for the past few weeks is babble about the pros &
->       cons of nuclear power...
->
->               Who Cares????

I get your point!  I guess that was all the participants were motivated
to discuss.  I dropped in a question about NOWHERE MAN and found out
there are others watching it too.  I think what you need to do is write
some ideas or questions about something to do with science fiction or
fantasy topics and then see what happens.  I OFTEN go to other locations
when the topics dry up here.  For example I enjoy the X-Files group on
the internet because there is quite a bit of in-depth discussion about
the program there.  Here at SFFAN there have been times when just about
all the most popular series on TV, the movies and in fiction were
regularly discussed.  I think maybe the time of year may have something
to do with the smaller number of messages.

Don't despair, the people here are generally a pretty nifty and
well-eductaed group with a very wide range of interests.  Just drop your
subject with something of substance to comment upon and I think you will
be very pleasantly surprised.  Cheers,

-Rob

======================================================================
| Robert Lidgren \\\|/// * THE INNER SANCTUM | * The Old Viking      |
|                ( o o ) * Writer, Teacher   | * Seeker of the Truth |
| =========o00o====(_)====o00o=======================================|
| e-mail me at------------> robert.lidgren@bbs.logicnet.com          |
| My Personal Web Site----> http://www.logicnet.com/robert.lidgren   |
======================================================================
--- PCBoard 15.2
 * Origin: 32 lines 40 Gig BBS, Realtime InterNet SLIP (403)299-9900 (1:134/10)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 41 of 225
 From : Barton Paul Levenson                1:129/26        .óá 06 .íâ 96 11:22
 To   : Longhair
 Subj : elfquest
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
I was a big elfquest fan in the early '80s, though I haven't seen much of it
recently.

--- Maximus 3.00
 * Origin: SoundingBoard, Pittsburgh PA (1:129/26)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 42 of 225
 From : Mark Jones                          1:105/302.47    .åò 04 .íâ 96 17:44
 To   : ROBERT LIDGREN
 Subj : NOWHERE MAN
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On (03 Jan 96) ROBERT LIDGREN wrote to MARK JONES...

 RL> Well, Mark, you make quite a few FALSE ASSUMPTIONS so I am
 RL> surprised at you! My original message is appended below - hardly
 RL> a one or two liner!
 RL>
 RL> Try checking out the topic before rushing to judgement.

   Well, notice, I did say *if* your message was a one or two-line
"Nowhere Man is cool!" kind of post, it probably got ignored.

 RL> If you don't watch it, why bother responding to my question about the
 RL> show?  Try reading the original message below!

   Actually, I was responding to your "why didn't anyone answer" post,
not the original message about Nowhere Man.


--- PPoint 1.78
 * Origin: Folcroft Sanitarium (hsmith@cure.com) (1:105/302.47)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 43 of 225
 From : Mark Jones                          1:105/302.47    .óá 06 .íâ 96 12:34
 To   : Darre LuAllen
 Subj : ST Voyager
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On (04 Jan 96) Darre LuAllen wrote to Mark Jones...

 DL> I never questioned his qualifications as a security officer. In
 DL> fact, in light of your statements, he seems over-qualified. I
 DL> meant to say that he would be better qualified for something more
 DL> cerebral. Perhaps as chief engineer, science officer or even
 DL> nav/pilot. Frankly, I'd love to have someone with such good
 DL> reflexes and such a calm mind in charge of keeping the ship in
 DL> one piece. But, if that's what he wants, then let him be a
 DL> Security Chief.

Exactly.  Security work is apparently his preference.  Just because he
*could* be a great science officer doesn't mean he'd want to be.

 DL> Criminal investigations are a field where command of emotions is
 DL> just as important as command of logic. How do you logiaclly
 DL> reason out how to deal with a psycho dropping random bombs at
 DL> random locations? (for instance) Oftimes, a gut feeling is all an
 DL> investigator has to go on. Can Mr. Vulcan, find a substitute for
 DL> human instinct? If so, then more's the better.

Well...*understanding* emotions may be important.  But Vulcans have
emotions--they just control them with (what humans would consider)
pathological strictness.  And a great deal of "gut instinct" is less
responding emotionally (in my opinion) than it is simply being very
observant.  (Neuro-Linguistic Programming, a branch of psychology I
find fascinating, spends a lot of time and energy teaching students to
*look* and *listen* and not much else.  They sometimes teach them
"cold reading" and "crystal-ball gazing" techniques they can practice,
to learn how to pick up non-verbal clues.  Its amazing how much
information someone is constantly giving away, if you know what to
look for.  With a little practice, you can even have them *tell* you
things verbally and have them leave convinced that you "psychically"
ferreted out the information--a technique fake psychics have used for
millennia...now adapted to use by therapists for getting information
from clients.)

Anyhow, the point of that digression was--Tuvok is presumably a very
observant guy.  With a little training, he should be able to do an
excellent job of dealing with emotional humans, whether or not he
"feels their pain" or simply notes it dispassionately.


--- PPoint 1.78
 * Origin: Folcroft Sanitarium (hsmith@cure.com) (1:105/302.47)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 44 of 225
 From : Mark Jones                          1:105/302.47    .óá 06 .íâ 96 12:44
 To   : Ken Hawkins
 Subj : NUCLEAR
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On (04 Jan 96) Ken Hawkins wrote to Mark Jones...

 KH> Proposals were to either bury it so deep that only a
 KH> technologically advanced culture would be able to find the site
 KH> (and assumably uunderstand its nature), or design a cap for the
 KH> site that would be universally recognized as a symbol of danger.
 KH> The questionable part is: what would be a recognizable danger or
 KH> warning to a totally alien culture?

   The "tick...tick...tick" of their alien geiger counters.

   If aliens advanced enough to travel through interstellar space
arrive on earth, I think we can assume they'll know about--and have
appropriate techniques for dealing with--radioactive wastes.  Even if
those techniques consist of walling up the tunnel again and posting
(alien language) signs warning DANGER:  RADIOACTIVE MATERIALS!


--- PPoint 1.78
 * Origin: Folcroft Sanitarium (hsmith@cure.com) (1:105/302.47)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 45 of 225
 From : Beverley Cote                       1:134/32.9      .ÿò 05 .íâ 96 13:56
 To   : ROBERT LIDGREN
 Subj : NOWHERE MAN
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Hi Robert,

04 Jan 96:  ROBERT LIDGREN------>JOEL RANGER

 RL> I had a strange message from another person here who evidently had not
 RL> read my first posting and he went on at length berating me for being a
 RL> newbie or something.

He said "if". See? You even quoted it here.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 Area:    SFFAN
 Date:    03 Jan 96  10:20:00  Public
 From:    ROBERT LIDGREN
 To:      MARK JONES
 Subject: NOWHERE MAN
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Well, Mark, you make quite a few FALSE ASSUMPTIONS so I am surprised at
you!  My original message is appended below - hardly a one or two liner!

Try checking out the topic before rushing to judgement.

-> Possibly.  Certainly *I* don't watch it.  But its more likely that
-> if your message was one of those one or two line "Nowhere Man is

   ^^

-> cool! Let's talk about it!" messages, it was simply ignored.
-> When a message like that pops up, it generally gets ignored.  That
-> kind of opening generally indicates a newbie, and one who apparently
-> has little to say (else he would have gone into more detail about
-> what he thinks, and what he wants to talk about).

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 RL> I resented that, especially since it
 RL> demonstrated his inability to do some back-tracking of a thread before
 RL> drawing ignorant conclusions.  This is something I find happens very
 RL> rarely in SFFAN so I was surprised and chagrined.

It's always those little words that get you!  :)

Take care,
Beverley

... Echo Trek:  To boldly go off-topic where &#*@^$ NO CARRIER

--- PPoint 1.98
 * Origin: ... Australia in '99                  :) (1:134/32.9)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 46 of 225
 From : Trevor Pack                         1:134/125       .ÿò 05 .íâ 96 20:11
 To   : Roelof Otten
 Subj : X-files
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
I don't have access to X-files
echoe

--- Maximus 2.02
 * Origin: View of the Rockies 403-291-6721 Calgary AB (1:134/125)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 47 of 225
 From : Trevor Pack                         1:134/125       .óá 06 .íâ 96 12:34
 To   : All
 Subj : X-files
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Did anybody see the one on killer cockroaches? Want to talk about it.

--- Maximus 2.02
 * Origin: View of the Rockies 403-291-6721 Calgary AB (1:134/125)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 48 of 225
 From : Eric Reinholt                       1:2604/309      .cê 07 .íâ 96 09:44
 To   : Chris Ogniben
 Subj : Star Trek
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 On 01-04-96 CHRIS OGNIBEN wrote to ERIC REINHOLT...

 CO>   Hi eric, i am still around in 1996, and still my life sucks, with no

 With no what?

 Curious that you chose the "Star Trek" topic to reply in as
 Star Trek has always given a very bright future for the human
 race to look forward to.

 The one thing that was always stressed (and thus will keep Star
 Trek popular in one form or other) was that the individual must
 make his/her own stand, chose his/her destiny and fulfil it.

 Do you have a favorite Star Trek episode?  If so, tell me and
 I'll show you what I mean.

 ** Eric **

 * OFFLINE 1.54 * All men are brothers. - Kirk
...............................................................................


--- WM v3.10/93-0747
 * Origin: Plain Brown Wrapper BBS-Cresskill NJ.(201)569-6685  (1:2604/309)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 49 of 225
 From : Robert Siemborski                   1:2604/214      .cê 07 .íâ 96 11:12
 To   : Lawrence E Dunlap
 Subj : Re: Botched seaQuest
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 >   Secondly, no nation will be able to build massive submersibles or
 >spacecraft without global cooperation, because the resources necessary
 >for those gigantic ships would come from the resource production streams
 >which would service individual national needs, making that projection of
 >seaQuest particularly unlikely given the current millieu of nation
 >states jostling for scarse resources in some areas even as recently as
 >1985, even as their citizens starve for the sake of war.  .  .  .

Case in point: International Space Station Alpha (Formally Space Station
Freedom).

- Rob -

--- SLMAIL v4.5a  (#1409)
 * Origin: Bits 'N Bytes BBS - Leonia, NJ - (201) 346-1661 - 28.8k Connections!
(1:2604/214)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 50 of 225
 From : Emilio Ares                         1:379/1         .cê 07 .íâ 96 21:51
 To   : Aaron Turon
 Subj : Re: Star Trek
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE 1.11+

-=> Quoting Aaron Turon to Everyone <=-

 AT> Does ANYONE out there like Star Trek?

Star Trek, yes, in all its incarnations except Voyager.  They need to hire
some writers.

 AT> Please respond!

I have responded.

Emilio



... Kzin Zen Master: What is the sound of one paw slashing?
--- GEcho 1.11+
 * Origin: The Transporter Room - Online Doom! - 704/567-9513 (1:379/1)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 51 of 225
 From : Gamin Davis                         1:202/1313      .óá 06 .íâ 96 21:09
 To   : Paul Browning
 Subj : SF Comedy
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
In response to Paul Browning's stand on SF Comedy, my press office
issued this statement:

PB>Love that Quark!!!  Still can't track it down tho...  Want all the epis
  >to the series...  That and Man From Atlantis...

     I have all the Quark episodes--got them from a local friend, pretty
bad reproduction quality (as in barely watchable) so I don't know if
it'd be worthwhile to try to copy them.
                                 Gamin Davis


--- GrayQwkMail 2.1
 * Origin: Written Worlds BBS - 619.697.4073 (1:202/1313)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 52 of 225
 From : Gamin Davis                         1:202/1313      .óá 06 .íâ 96 21:09
 To   : Elizabeth H. Penrose
 Subj : Quark
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
In response to Elizabeth H. Penrose's stand on Quark, my press office
issued this statement:

EHP>Quark was one of a string of short-lived TV comedies by Mel Brooks (al
   >involved with "When Things Were Rotten."  I mean, I think it was.

    Yeah, I have a few episodes of that one, too (much better copy
quality, but haven't managed to catch many of the episodes). I remember
watching it first-run--my mother and I both loved it, though I think my
father thought we were both nuts.  ;)
                                         Gamin Davis


--- GrayQwkMail 2.1
 * Origin: Written Worlds BBS - 619.697.4073 (1:202/1313)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 53 of 225
 From : Phill Ash                           1:275/160       .cê 07 .íâ 96 08:28
 To   : Judy Hayes
 Subj : Personal Favorites.
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE 1.11+

 PA> Paint the appliance with Kryolan "Rubber Mask Grease Paint"
 PA> and the skin with an appropriate BenNye color on a
 PA> well-moisturized foundation.

 JH> Thanks!
 JH> Should I be able to find the Rubber mask paint in the same place I buy
 JH> my stage makeup?

        Around here, the place to go is Dr. Bob's Theatricity.  There's
        a place in NYC called Paramount Theatrical Supplies (at least I
        think that's right...it's been so long since I dealt with them!)
        that has a nice mail-order catalog.

 JH> Can/should this be used over latex appliances as well as store bought
 JH> pre-fabricated headpieces?

        Yes!


Your pal:  PhlAsh
---
 þ PhlAshMail 1.0 þ Seven screaming Diz-Busters should go the route and die
~~~ ReneWave v1.01 [NR]
--- Smile :)
 * Origin: * The Beast's Lair * (804)498-3070 * Va Beach VA * (1:275/160)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 54 of 225
 From : Frank Glover                        1:2613/477      .óá 06 .íâ 96 13:57
 To   : Lawrence E Dunlap
 Subj : Re: Botched seaQuest
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

LE>     The global scientific consensus is that no possible sets
LE>  developed
LE>  confederation of developing nations *can* be as advanced as 1995
LE>  United
LE>  States in the 2030's on Terra without generating such suffiicent
LE>  pollution that it would kill us off in about ten years were every
LE>  such
LE>  nation to receive such a level of technollgy/pollution capacity at
LE>  the
LE>  same time.

   You *could* be right about this, though I have my doubts....

LE>     Secondly, no nation will be able to build massive submersibles or
LE>  spacecraft without global cooperation, because the resources
LE>  necessary
LE>  for those gigantic ships would come from the resource production
LE>  streams
LE>  which would service individual national needs, making that projection
LE>  of
LE>  seaQuest particularly unlikely given the current millieu of nation
LE>  states jostling for scarse resources in some areas even as recently

   Why?  SeaQuest can't mass much more than several of today's ballistic missile
subs. Why should she be any more resource-depleting than the construction of a
supertanker or two? And any spacecraft we can build in the next few decades
can't involve any more raw materials than a couple of wide-bodied jets.
Development is where the real money is spent, and as I said, SeaQuest's
replacement is a *known* design, not unlike shuttle Challenger's replacement
Endevour. (Another craft that's roughly a 747's worth of aluminum.)

   Frank


--- QuickBBS 2.80 GoldBase (Zeta-1)
 * Origin: The Matrix Data Bank BBS, Rochester, Ny (1:2613/477)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 55 of 225
 From : Frank Glover                        1:2613/477      .óá 06 .íâ 96 14:38
 To   : Tisha Mcgary
 Subj : Re: Startrek Voyager
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

TM>  Does anyone know what tribe Chacotay is a member of?  Or where I can
TM>  find out?

   I don't think they were ever specific. Either that, or they made up a tribe.
Maybe someone else here knows better.

   Frank


--- QuickBBS 2.80 GoldBase (Zeta-1)
 * Origin: The Matrix Data Bank BBS, Rochester, Ny (1:2613/477)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 56 of 225
 From : Frank Glover                        1:2613/477      .óá 06 .íâ 96 14:41
 To   : Phill Ash
 Subj : Re: F&SF???
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

PA>          Doesn't anyone talk about Science Fiction & Fantasy
PA>  anymore???
PA>
PA>          All I've seen for the past few weeks is babble about the pros
PA>  &
PA>          cons of nuclear power...

   Oh it's still somewhere between those postings. (I kinda expect Nicolai to
clamp down any time now....)

   Frank


--- QuickBBS 2.80 GoldBase (Zeta-1)
 * Origin: The Matrix Data Bank BBS, Rochester, Ny (1:2613/477)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 57 of 225
 From : Frank Glover                        1:2613/477      .óá 06 .íâ 96 14:53
 To   : Bianca Wesslak
 Subj : Re: nuclear BS
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

BW>   TR> Who?  Greenpeace?  ROFL!  I worked for them for a while, until I

BW>   positive, who are the ROFL?  As for burying info which hurts their

   ROFL: a common electronic message expression meaning `Rolling On the Floor,
Laughing.'

   Also, Coal burning can add to global warming, and leaves a mildly toxic ash
to be disposed of. Hydroelectric means flooding a valley somewhere. (and what if
it breaks?) I like solar photovoltaic systema, but I know some pretty nasty
stuff (like arsenic) is involved in its production.

   Nothing's perfectly safe.

   Frank


--- QuickBBS 2.80 GoldBase (Zeta-1)
 * Origin: The Matrix Data Bank BBS, Rochester, Ny (1:2613/477)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 58 of 225
 From : Elizabeth H. Penrose                1:129/26        .cê 07 .íâ 96 06:14
 To   : Phill Ash
 Subj : Personal Favorites.
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 MW> The hardest thing I
 MW> think is to blend the edges. In front of the
 MW> mirror it'll look all
 MW> good, then after about an hour, the stuff on
 MW> the applications dries
 MW> to a different color than the stuff on the skin. :-(

How did they do it on the Twilight Zone's "Eye of The Beholder"?

--- Maximus 3.00
 * Origin: SoundingBoard, Pittsburgh PA (1:129/26)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 59 of 225
 From : David Johnston                      1:342/14        .îí 08 .íâ 96 11:32
 To   : Phill Ash
 Subj : Nuclear
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
->       I'm an idealist of the highest order and it's plain to me that,
->       due to the advances in medicine and refinement of food and
-> fuel,
->       humanity (as a whole) is slowly becoming stupider and weaker.

Nope.  Merely more adapted to it's present environment.

--- PCBoard (R) v15.21/100
 * Origin: Freddy's Place - Edm. AB - 28.8K (403) 456-4241 (1:342/14)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 60 of 225
 From : Nicole Wilson                       1:271/266       .îí 08 .íâ 96 01:36
 To   : Robert Lidgren
 Subj : NOWHERE MAN
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

RL>Now, what I'd like to know is more about the story line to date.

RL>1.  Who is this group which seems to want to use any method to get at
RL>    Tom's film and his diary?

No one knows, I've watched this since the beginning and I have two
ideas.  1. a corporation or 2. a government...the US or another one or
possibly even the so-called One World Government conspieracy.

RL>2.  Am I correct in concluding that, at one time, Tom Veil was placed in
RL>    an insane asylum by this group in an effort to coerce him into
RL>    cooperating?

Yes, shortly after the first incedent, where his wife dissapeared in the
resturant in Ep. 1.

RL>3.  Is there anything else in Tom's set of negative that the "group"
RL>    seems to want to get from him?

As far as I know, no, but I only saw one negative closely, he cut them
apart and mailed them all over the country in plain manilla envelopes.

RL>4.  What role, if any has his wife played in this conspiracy.  I.E. do
RL>    you get the impression she is some innocent victim too or is she
RL>    part of the process of "taking out" Tom Veil?

Sometimes I think she has a part in this, but mostly I think she's
innocent. She played along once, when he was in the institution, she
said that she thought it would help him get out.

The whole story reminds me faintly of an episode J. Micheal Straczinski,
(pardon me if I misspelled his name.), wrote for The Twilite Zone.
In which this man lived an Ozzie & Hariet existance, until he noticed a
video camera, after a while he realized his life was being broadcast as
a TV show, once that happened he was fired, lost his house, and his wife
left him. As she walked out the door she said, I was provided by the TV
company, I only stayed with a loser like you because I was getting paid
a pretty penny, no thanks to you I've lost my job.

RL>5.  At any point in the series, has there appeared ANYONE who is playing
RL>    an on-going supporter for Tom?  If there has not, he really IS up to
RL>    his a** in "alligators!" <g>

Yes, there have been three, a man in the assylum,(more on him in a
minute) his father, and a character played by Dean Stockwell.

The man in the asylum, possibly tom's best chance for freedom, was
killed by the bad guys once they found out he was telling tom what was
going on. See, Tom isn't the only person scr*wed by these people,
this guy was too, as he was about to help tom, the killed him in his
sleep. He told tom something important, but I forgot what it was.
                                      Ciao, Nicole
---
 þ OLX 2.2 þ America was not discovered by Americans, shame on them.

--- QScan/PCB v1.16b / 01-0765
 * Origin: Olympus BBS, Newport News Va. 804-595-0117 (1:271/266)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 61 of 225
 From : Chris Ogniben                       1:2604/568      .cê 07 .íâ 96 12:03
 To   : Don Bach
 Subj : Star Trek
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

  I am a trek fan, not a long term one.  But, i seen most of TOS and
all the movies.  I seen all of STTNG and all off Voyager, DS9.. So, i
am a big trek fan.  And, i will always be one, since i love sci fi
stuff.


--- WM v3.11/93-0947
 * Origin: Waterside BBS - NJ - (201) 641-5375 28.8k  (1:2604/568)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 62 of 225
 From : Chris Ogniben                       1:2604/568      .cê 07 .íâ 96 12:08
 To   : Darre Luallen
 Subj : ST Voyager
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

  I think people that are trek fans, should stop complaining about the
technobabble.  And have gripe with everything you see.  It is pretty
obvious that when people that just came out of the star fleet academy
are all new to most of what goes on.  And they are well trained.  Most
of the main characters of Voyager, Ds9, and STTNG and the movies.  All
come from areas that they got tons of experience in.. And all seem to
know a lot of things, more than other people.. They only have problems,
in understanding to something that they don't understand, or something
that is new to them.  But, i don't think there is anything wrong, tos
see that most of them have good ideas to get out of problems, and to do
things quickly, than to act dumb.  So, i have no problems with what i
see, i think it's all part of where the characters were, before they
came onto the show, and most characters were very exerienced to what is
to be done and said.


--- WM v3.11/93-0947
 * Origin: Waterside BBS - NJ - (201) 641-5375 28.8k  (1:2604/568)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 63 of 225
 From : Tommy Kellerman                     2:205/356       .cê 07 .íâ 96 03:26
 To   : Robert Lidgren
 Subj : VIRTUAL SEX
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
In a message dated 30-Dec-95 13:09:00, Robert Lidgren wrote:

 RL> Something HAS GONE WRONG when the concept of virtual sex rears its
 RL> head (no pun intended)...  Seems to me that virtual sex is a
 RL> non-starter...sort of like virtual chocolate!

 RL> I don't think so!

 RL> Interacting with people face-to-face has got to be better than
 RL> EXCLUSIVELY meeting people on the Internet or the Fido Net.

 RL> Virtual sex - does it lead to virtual families...?

Well, maybe you should think of Virtual Sex more as a complement to
telephone sex, but much more real and more private.
Of course there's always difference between that and the real thing...
And for no other purpose than sheer pleasure.

I'm convinced it's possible to do this today, but expensive and hi-tech
equipment is required... You'd have to wear some kind of body-suit to
simulate human touch, but an alternative method could be plugging in your brain
into the computer directly, through bio-tech devices, putting you
to a dream-like stage, like some form of "suggested dreaming".

Are there really any corporations working on this...?



/// -Tommy K.- \\\

--- Xenolink 1.0 Z.3, EmacsXL.4
 * Origin: NoLimit, Furudal +46-258-10071 (2:205/356)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 64 of 225
 From : Tommy Kellerman                     2:205/356       .cê 07 .íâ 96 03:28
 To   : Michael Harper
 Subj : Re: Cybersex
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
In a message dated 28-Dec-95 23:48:44, Michael Harper wrote:

 MH>  -=> Over coffee and beignets, Mark Jones told Michael Harper all about
 MH> Cybersex...

 MH> Agreed. But the ones I want to get my lustful paws on are Kristen
 MH> Cloke and/or Marie Marshall...

 MJ> Uhhmmm....who?  Never heard of them.

 MH>  Kristen Cloke is the dark-haired beauty who plays Vansen on Space:
 MH>  Above & Beyond. There's something about her that makes me want to grab
 MH>  her and run into the woods...

And what would happen in there...?     =)


/// -Tommy K.- \\\

--- Xenolink 1.0 Z.3, EmacsXL.4
 * Origin: NoLimit, Furudal +46-258-10071 (2:205/356)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 65 of 225
 From : Tommy Kellerman                     2:205/356       .cê 07 .íâ 96 21:08
 To   : All
 Subj : V
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Hiya All!

Does anyone know how many episodes of "V" that are available?

In Sweden they've shown about twelve, but I suspect
there are more available.

I'd like to purchase some PAL-standard VHS tapes, if any around... ?


/// -Tommy K.- \\\   * May Every Year Be Better Than The Last *

--- Xenolink 1.0 Z.3, EmacsXL.4
 * Origin: NoLimit, Furudal +46-258-10071 (2:205/356)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 66 of 225
 From : Boris CDuke                         2:463/2.22      .åò 11 .íâ 96 02:10
 To   : Rudy Hardy
 Subj : Space: Above & Beyond Episode List Wanted
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Hi Rudy!

 RH>     Does someone have the episode list of the series "Space: Above &
 RH> Beyond". Thanks in advance.

I would appreciate to get one as well.

 RH> Good Bye,

Bestest, Boris

 * Origin: Imagineering (2:463/2.22)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 67 of 225
 From : Phill Ash                           1:275/160       .òp 09 .íâ 96 09:30
 To   : Robert Lidgren
 Subj : F&SF???
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE 1.11+

 RL> Don't despair, the people here are generally a pretty nifty and
 RL> well-eductaed group with a very wide range of interests.  Just drop
 RL> your subject with something of substance to comment upon and I think
 RL> you will be very pleasantly surprised.  Cheers,

        True... so, how do you like Philly this year? =)

        No really...
        Have *you* heard anything confirming or denying the return of
        'Sliders'?

                And to pick-up on a thread from a while back...

        What kinds of worlds should the Sliders encounter????



Your pal:  PhlAsh
---
 þ Ùystertags v1.1 þ Home isn't pretty.  Ain't no home for me
~~~ ReneWave v1.01 [NR]
--- Smile :)
 * Origin: * The Beast's Lair * (804)498-3070 * Va Beach VA * (1:275/160)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 68 of 225
 From : Judy Hayes                          1:154/40        .pä 10 .íâ 96 07:19
 To   : Phill Ash
 Subj : Re: Personal Favorites.
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

->Quoshara grinned at Phill and said, "Personal Favorites.? No problem!"

 PA> Paint the appliance with Kryolan "Rubber Mask Grease Paint"
 PA> and the skin with an appropriate BenNye color on a
 PA> well-moisturized foundation.

 JH> Thanks!
 JH> Should I be able to find the Rubber mask paint in the same place I buy
 JH> my stage makeup?

 PA> Around here, the place to go is Dr. Bob's Theatricity.
 PA> There's a place in NYC called Paramount Theatrical Supplies (at
 PA> least I think that's right...it's been so long since I dealt
 PA> with them!) that has a nice mail-order catalog.

Errr....maybe I just should have asked - "Is it easily available?"  VA is a
little bit too far for me to go. <g>

      --Quoshara


... Of course I'm sane. The voices tell me so.
---
 * Origin: Anonymous BBS -=- Non plus Ultra -=- 414-251-2580 (1:154/40)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 69 of 225
 From : Darre LuAllen                       1:3637/1        .òp 09 .íâ 96 10:46
 To   : Sean Cooper
 Subj : Re: Star Trek
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 On 12-31-95 Sean Cooper wrote to Michael Harper...

 RE: Re: Star Trek
 BY: Michael Harper to Aaron Turon on Tue Dec 26 1995 11:58:36

 -=> Over coffee and beignets, Aaron Turon told Everyone
 -=> all about Star Trek

 This message gets around.

 AT> Does ANYONE out there like Star Trek?
 AT> Please respond!

   <Snip>

 MH> astonishing Babylon 5. The days when Trek was the only sf series worth
 MH> watching are long gone.

   <Snip>

 MH> I love Babylon 5.
 SC>  Well, I kinda' like X-Files, B5 sucks and Alien Nation is

                                   ^^^^^^^^

 SC> okay...I guess..
 SC>  AND TREK WILL ALWAYS BE WORTH WATCHING !!

 To start: I'm a B5 fan(atic)... you aren't going to convert me, however...

 I'd like for you to support your statement: B5 sucks.
 I'm not going to flame you, but I'd love to hear why you dislike this
 show.  Let's talk. ;>
                                             Darre LuAllen
                                             Puttin' on the
                                             Listening Ears
___
 * OFFLINE 1.56 * C:\DAMSEL.EXE crosslinked with DISTRESS.COM...RESCUE?


--- Maximus/2 3.01
 * Origin: Cumberland BBS TN 615/526-3347 V34 (1:3637/1)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 70 of 225
 From : Joel Ranger                         1:256/105       .òp 09 .íâ 96 10:44
 To   : Robert Siemborski
 Subj : NOWHERE MAN
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
> I missed the start of this thread, but I enjoy Nowhere Man as well...
> I missed the first episode (both times it aired) and I'm kicking myself
> for it.  My friend told me several things were set up in that episode
> (the breaking glasses, and the cigar/pencil thing).

Yeah, I like the cigar plot....of course, now anytime he sees someone
doing it, he automatically distrusts them....

I also missed the pilot the first time it was on....programmed my VCR
wrong....luckily, I have a friend that taped it so I got to see it...
When it starts repeating them again, I am really going to have to tape
it...

In your opinion, how long do you think they should/can keep the current
plot going? How long is Tom going to be on the run, always looking out
for 'Them'?

BCNU!

Joel


... Mynocks... yeah, chewin' on the power cab#%#*(^@*!... NO CARRIER
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

--- FLAME v1.1
 * Origin: Certa Cito. Lanark County, Ontario. 613-264-8114 (1:256/105)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 71 of 225
 From : Nicolai Shapero                     1:102/524       .òp 09 .íâ 96 07:52
 To   : Jackson Raster
 Subj : Re: More faves...
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Guess what?  Another rant like the last one, and you get a ninety day
suspension.  I'm not in the mood for games, fellow.

-- Nicolai Shapero, Moderator of the SFFAN echo

--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 72 of 225
 From : Chip Griffin                        1:320/301       .îí 08 .íâ 96 13:51
 To   : The Raven
 Subj : Re: nuclear
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On 01/08/96 (@13:48:40) The Raven typed:

TR>      You aren't thinking it through.  Put the collectors in orbit.  Several
TR> of them, placed at the right spots, and you never have the problem of
TR> overcast days or the sun not shining.      Have the collectors convert the
TR> light into microwaves, beam the microwaves to large antennas on the
TR> surface, then convert the microwaves to electricity.  Simple.  Large
TR> initial investment which pays for itself very quickly.

Actually I had thought it through!  You just added TWO more conversions into
the process which will make it MUCH less efficient.  In Nuclear power we
consider ~30% efficiency pretty good and I think you will have less efficiency
then that!  Besides, on the scale necessary to be useful you would need to
make MEGAWATTS of power and beam it through the atmostphere ... what about
airplanes?  What if one should pass through that airspace?  What about
lifeforms (ie birds)?  We're talking crispy critters here!

de Chip [N1MIE] President of TRAUG         quarry@q.continuum.net


--- MacKennel 2.2.1
 * Origin: The Quarry: 860-889-6427 -- Amateur Radio & Mac User (1:320/301.0)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 73 of 225
 From : Chip Griffin                        1:320/301       .îí 08 .íâ 96 14:02
 To   : James Woodcock
 Subj : re: nuclear safety
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On 01/08/96 (@13:52:29) James Woodcock typed:

MD> Nuclear power is the most cost-effective and nearly the safest.

JW>  Until it fucks up...look under 'Chernobyl' or 'Three Mile Island'

I don't think you get it.  I work on a site with three nuclear units.  At
least two of them have gone over 1 BILLION MEGAWATT-HOURs.  That is enough
between the two for over 30 years of power for Connecticut not counting the
other unit on our site, the one on the CT river, the two in Massachusetts, and
the one in New Hampshire.  With the hundreds of units around the world there
are probably hundreds of thousands of hours of operation without an incident.
Browns-Ferry, TMI, Chernobyl and others helped us all learn some valuable
lessons.  As far as the US goes, a Chernobyl-style incident is IMPOSSIBLE!
Due to the inherent instability and danger of their design they were a
disaster waiting to happen.  Lets just say that while graphite (their
moderator, necessary for all nuclear reactors) will burn, ours (water) won't!

The bottom line is that don't let the fact that all we get is bad press over a
few small (and fewer not so small, with one biggie) incidents ... don't let
that convince you that nuclear power isn't what is best for the world.  With
the given technology we have today, nuclear power is the BEST
"bang-for-the-buck" bar NONE!

de Chip [N1MIE] President of TRAUG         quarry@q.continuum.net


--- MacKennel 2.2.1
 * Origin: The Quarry: 860-889-6427 -- Amateur Radio & Mac User (1:320/301.0)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 74 of 225
 From : Chip Griffin                        1:320/301       .îí 08 .íâ 96 14:06
 To   : David Durgee
 Subj : Re: nuclear
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On 01/08/96 (@14:04:55) David Durgee typed:

DD> You should seriously check out a few books such as "The Health Hazards of
DD> NOT Going Nuclear" and a few others available at your local library.  What
DD> this country needs is more nukes and fewer kooks.

Thank you, you have restored my faith in the sanity of people in general!  You
are exactly correct.  The biggest problem with nuclear power in this country
is the ignorance of the average American when it comes to the dangers etc of
nuclear power.

de Chip [N1MIE] President of TRAUG         quarry@q.continuum.net


--- MacKennel 2.2.1
 * Origin: The Quarry: 860-889-6427 -- Amateur Radio & Mac User (1:320/301.0)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 75 of 225
 From : Chip Griffin                        1:320/301       .îí 08 .íâ 96 14:07
 To   : Chris Baugh
 Subj : Re: NUCLEAR paradox?
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On 01/08/96 (@14:07:05) Chris Baugh typed:

CG> You got it backwards.  Fusion requires such high temperatures that it
CG> must use magnetic containment and the like ... It is MUCH LESS safe
CG> then fusion.

CB> Fusion is much less safe than fusion?

Ooops.  Fusion is MUCH less safe than FISSION (at least with what we know
today).

de Chip [N1MIE] President of TRAUG         quarry@q.continuum.net


--- MacKennel 2.2.1
 * Origin: The Quarry: 860-889-6427 -- Amateur Radio & Mac User (1:320/301.0)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 76 of 225
 From : Chip Griffin                        1:320/301       .îí 08 .íâ 96 14:09
 To   : Owen E. Oulton
 Subj : Re: nuclear
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On 01/08/96 (@14:08:43) Owen E. Oulton typed:

OO> constant winds, et cetera.  Hydro and nuclear have their place, as well.

Which is basically anywhere you need a lot of power with the smallest
investment of resources (including land) ... this seems most prevalent near
big cities.

de Chip [N1MIE] President of TRAUG         quarry@q.continuum.net


--- MacKennel 2.2.1
 * Origin: The Quarry: 860-889-6427 -- Amateur Radio & Mac User (1:320/301.0)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 77 of 225
 From : Chip Griffin                        1:320/301       .îí 08 .íâ 96 14:21
 To   : Ecarey
 Subj : Re: NUCLEAR
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On 01/08/96 (@14:16:36) Ecarey typed:

Ec> 1)They have lousy p.r. They are clueless when it comes to the task of
Ec> conveying the real benefits, safety- and environment-wise, of nuclear
Ec> power, and they are so arrogant they don't understand why they should have
Ec> to.

This is exactly what I have said.  As an employee, and a believer, in this
field I have often said that they need a PR blitz like the dairy industry and
the beef council.  The industry should strive to educate the population.  Only
then will we have a chance.

Ec> 3)The nuclear waste problem, which is far more of a problem than some on
Ec> this echo are willing to concede. It's solvable, but only if the nuclear
Ec> industry first solves problem #1, their p.r. incompetance and their
Ec> arrogance, and actually _address_ the waste problem.

Yeah, with events like the recent movement of an old core by Knolls Atomic
Power group (in Windsor Locks CT) through the state with little or no notice
took everyone by surprise.  It was interesting to listen to the "bad press" on
the TV.  The characterized the spent fuel in a hermetically sealed (welded
shut) steel cask as extremely dangerous.  They all but directly stated that it
was highly irresponsible of the company to move it without prior notification
(which they aren't required by federal and state regulations).

The other reason, it seems to me, for the general fear of nuclear power is the
mistake of associating it in any way, shape, or form with nuclear bombs.  Very
silly, but very common.

de Chip [N1MIE] President of TRAUG         quarry@q.continuum.net


--- MacKennel 2.2.1
 * Origin: The Quarry: 860-889-6427 -- Amateur Radio & Mac User (1:320/301.0)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 78 of 225
 From : Chip Griffin                        1:320/301       .îí 08 .íâ 96 14:23
 To   : Todd Sullivan
 Subj : Re: nuclear
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On 01/08/96 (@14:22:26) Todd Sullivan typed:

TS> We have nuclear *now*.  What we need is education and dispelling of
TS> mythical/apocalyptic mis/disinformation.  Without an informed populace, the
TS> "no nukes" crowd will have their say, as will those who think solar is
TS> science fiction.  They will until oil/gas/coal are prohibitively expensive
TS> and in short supply.

True.  And, by the way, it is good to have someone watching to ensure you are
keeping honest.  It is not impossible for an unwatched child to sneak into the
cookie jar (take the US congress for example) ... but ignorance IS fear and so
education is the solution!

de Chip [N1MIE] President of TRAUG         quarry@q.continuum.net


--- MacKennel 2.2.1
 * Origin: The Quarry: 860-889-6427 -- Amateur Radio & Mac User (1:320/301.0)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 79 of 225
 From : Chip Griffin                        1:320/301       .îí 08 .íâ 96 14:33
 To   : Bianca Wesslak
 Subj : Re: nuclear BS
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On 01/08/96 (@14:24:56) Mark Jones typed:

BW> Maybe the core never hit air but the three mile Island explosian
BW> is a good example of how dangerous nuclear energy is. Three mile
BW> Island is still being cleaned out by robots due to the dangerous
BW> radiation. Lead is the only shield that I know of that can
BW> withstand radiation, that and cockroaches. As for the success of
BW> the navy subs, I won't say anything on them due to no knowledge,
BW> but I'd hate to see one get blown up.

Lead is not the only shielding material.  Nearly anything can be a shield.
Everything has a "tenth-thickness", that is to say a thickness which will
reduce the radiation field strength by 1/10th of its original strength.  Air
can even be a shield (especially for Alpha radiation, which even a sheet of
paper can completely eliminate).

Their are four types of radiation:
Alpha, Beta, Gamma, and Neutron.

Alpha is a 2-He-4++, note it is strongly charged and fairly large.  Those two
factors are the biggest reason for two characteristics (1) it does a LOT of
damage if interacting with viceral mass (tissue) and (2) it can be shielded by
small amounts of almost any material.

Beta is essentially a free electron (e-).  It is also charged, but less than
an Alpha.  It can be stopped by glasses, water, skin, thin metal (some)
sheets.  The biggest danger of Beta radiation is to the eyes, but eye glasses
(plastic or glass) will almost totally eliminate it.

Gamma is a particle wave similar to light (but higher energy and different
wave length).  Your microwave emits these to cook your food.  Water will
shield this in enough quantities.  It is a threat to your whole body (ie it
may go through a substantial part of the body before causing damage).  We use
the principles of time,distance, and shielding for this one.  Minimize the
time, maximize the distance, maximize the shielding to reduce exposure.

Neutron is the biggest fear.  It can effect the whole body, isn't easily
shielded (water in enough quantity, lead or other dense metals), and can
travel long distances causing lots of damage as it goes.  Fortunately it is
the least common form of radiation.  We design or reactors such that it is
only present at power (ie only when it is making electricity) and shield it
such that there is almost none of it outside of containment (and generally no
one goes there at power).

Think about it ... ask questions ...

de Chip [N1MIE] President of TRAUG         quarry@q.continuum.net


--- MacKennel 2.2.1
 * Origin: The Quarry: 860-889-6427 -- Amateur Radio & Mac User (1:320/301.0)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 80 of 225
 From : Chip Griffin                        1:320/301       .îí 08 .íâ 96 14:38
 To   : Brion Lienhart
 Subj : Re: nuclear BS
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On 01/08/96 (@14:37:40) Brion Lienhart typed:

BL> and type of radiation. IIRC, for lead and gamma radiation it's 4 inches.
BL> I.E. if you stick 4" of lead between you and some radiation if you have 100
BL> rem on the unshielded side, you'll only have 10 rem on the other side, 8"
BL> and you'll only have 1 rem.

I seem to recall it is 2" for lead.  Water was 10" I think.

de Chip [N1MIE] President of TRAUG         quarry@q.continuum.net


--- MacKennel 2.2.1
 * Origin: The Quarry: 860-889-6427 -- Amateur Radio & Mac User (1:320/301.0)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 81 of 225
 From : Chip Griffin                        1:320/301       .îí 08 .íâ 96 14:42
 To   : The Raven
 Subj : Re: nuclear BS
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On 01/08/96 (@14:38:44) The Raven typed:

BW> Maybe the core never hit air but the three mile Island explosian is a
BW> good example of how dangerous nuclear energy is.

TR>      Explosion?  There was *no* explosion.  I am quite serious when I say
TR> that the total amount of radiation released was miniscule, I *meant* it.
TR> You'd get a bigger dose of radiation from just sitting in the US Capital
TR> Building.      Funny how you never answered this point.  Look, it's really
TR> very simple. Reactor cores don't explode.  Period.  They can have a
TR> catastrophic meltdown, they can have radioactive coolant leaks, but they do
TR> not go up in a cascade of nuclear fire a'la a nuclear bomb.  They *can't*.

Actually I can think of one example where you are wrong, and there aren't many
people who will even know what I am talking about.  There was a plant, SL-1,
the US.Army was learning on in the early days (~1950s or 60s I think).  They
were doing some maintenance on Christmas eve (or about that time of year) in
Idaho when something went wrong.  They pulled the rods (done manually in those
days) too fast or something and had a "steam explosion".  All this means is
that they were creating so much power so fast that the water nearly
instantaneously boiled in one area of the reactor.  The rods were ejected, all
errr both the technicians were killed by the explosion (one impaled into the
ceiling - took them a while to discover the body, no one thought to look up),
and the supervisor was killed by the radiation when he came to see what was
going on.  They dismantled the whole thing and burried it under concrete out
there ...

de Chip [N1MIE] President of TRAUG         quarry@q.continuum.net


--- MacKennel 2.2.1
 * Origin: The Quarry: 860-889-6427 -- Amateur Radio & Mac User (1:320/301.0)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 82 of 225
 From : Chip Griffin                        1:320/301       .îí 08 .íâ 96 14:49
 To   : Bianca Wesslak
 Subj : Re: nuclear BS
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On 01/08/96 (@14:45:23) Bianca Wesslak typed:

TS> The only way that can happen is with weapons fire.

BW>  What about an inside mishap in a nuke sub, I seriously doubt weapons fire
BW> is the only thing that can hurt a nuke sub, then again they said the
BW> Titanic  was unsinkable.

You are quite correct.  As an ex-sub sailor I assure you there are MANY other
hazards on a nuclear (or any submarine).  Just ask those who know of the
Thresher, Scorpion, and Bonefish if you have any doubt.

The first sank on sea trials when their emergency blow system valves froze
shut eliminating a possible recovery means from another problem.

The second sank for reasons unknown (although I have heard rumor that the
wreckage implied a weapons strike).

The third was scrapped after a crippling fire on board caused an abandon ship
while at sea.  They had to be towed in to port.  There were three killed (the
three who were driving while every one else evacuated).  The cause: a battery
fire.  Video footage of the aftermath is impressive, see it if you get a
chance.

de Chip [N1MIE] President of TRAUG         quarry@q.continuum.net


--- MacKennel 2.2.1
 * Origin: The Quarry: 860-889-6427 -- Amateur Radio & Mac User (1:320/301.0)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 83 of 225
 From : Chip Griffin                        1:320/301       .îí 08 .íâ 96 14:52
 To   : Piotr W. Cholewa
 Subj : Re: nuclear
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On 01/08/96 (@14:51:20) Piotr W. Cholewa typed:

MD> Nuclear power is the most cost-effective and nearly the safest.

JW>  Until it fucks up...look under 'Chernobyl' or 'Three Mil
JW> Island'

PC> Sorry, but AFAIK they were not "technique" failures, but rather design
PC> errors. Chernobyl is a human error.

You are wrong!  TMI was human error above anything else.  Design saved the day
(not that it couldn't have been better).  Chernobyl was a combination of a bad
design, poor operation, and operator error.

de Chip [N1MIE] President of TRAUG         quarry@q.continuum.net


--- MacKennel 2.2.1
 * Origin: The Quarry: 860-889-6427 -- Amateur Radio & Mac User (1:320/301.0)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 84 of 225
 From : Chip Griffin                        1:320/301       .îí 08 .íâ 96 14:57
 To   : Bianca Wesslak
 Subj : Re: nuclear BS
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On 01/08/96 (@14:56:26) The Raven typed:

BW> mostly fantasy, and not bad sci fi.  I've also visited a nuclear power
BW> plant in Maine, I think it's name is yankee something or other.  I do

That would be MAINE YANKEE, owned by a consortium of power companies.

de Chip [N1MIE] President of TRAUG         quarry@q.continuum.net


--- MacKennel 2.2.1
 * Origin: The Quarry: 860-889-6427 -- Amateur Radio & Mac User (1:320/301.0)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 85 of 225
 From : Chip Griffin                        1:320/301       .îí 08 .íâ 96 15:05
 To   : The Raven
 Subj : Re: NUCLEAR
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On 01/08/96 (@15:01:39) The Raven typed:

BW> Nor have I at any point gone for fossil fuels in this debate, so you
BW> can save the fossil argument, I also don't think that nuclear enerby is
BW> such a good idea either.!

TR>      Brilliant.  So, nuclear's out... fossil fuels suck... what do you
TR> suggest as an alternative?  Wind power?  Muscle power?

Relax "raven", people like that also have no real concept how much power is
needed to keep the lights on and factories running around this fine country of
ours.  Take for example Northeast Utilities.  We own 5 nuclear plants and an
assortment of fossil plants.  We can generate about 4,500,000,000,000 watts of
power.  Considering that a typical light bulb is about 100 watts, that is a
lot of light bulbs.  All that power is only 1/3rd of New Englands power.  Now,
how many barrels of oil would it take to generate that power?  With how much
waste?  How many solar panels?  With how much land taken?  How many wind
generators?  (What if the wind dies down?)

All tantalizing details ...

de Chip [N1MIE] President of TRAUG         quarry@q.continuum.net


--- MacKennel 2.2.1
 * Origin: The Quarry: 860-889-6427 -- Amateur Radio & Mac User (1:320/301.0)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 86 of 225
 From : James Walton                        1:129/260       .òp 09 .íâ 96 19:30
 To   : All
 Subj : Short Story Contest
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
PARSEC is proud to announce its Second Annual Science
Fiction writing contest, in conjunction with ConFluence '96.

PARSEC, the Pittsburgh area science fiction club, is offering
a $100 cash prize to the best fantasy or SF short story.
This year's theme is "Forged in Iron;" therefore each
short story submitted must feature "Iron" in some way, shape
or form.

The best story will be published in the ConFluence '96
program book.  Stories must be 3500 words or shorter.

ConFluence is the  annual Pittsburgh area science fiction
and fantasy convention.  ConFluence '96 will be held from July
26-28, 1996 at the Sheraton Hotel in Mars, Pa.  Our guest of honor
is Nebula award winner Michael Swanwick.  Dozens of other professional
writers, editors and artists will also attend.  The convention
attracts more than 300 attendees from all over the Midwest.

The stories will be judged by members of the club.  At the
club's discretion, the second place winner may also receive
a cash prize and be published in the program book. All
publication rights revert to the author after Confluence.

This contest is open to anyone (pro or amateur) who submits
a story of the correct length, and meets the topic
restrictions.  The manuscript must be double spaced, the
title must appear on the top of each  page and each page
must be numbered.  The author's name should not appear
anywhere in the manuscript.

A title page must accompany the manuscript, which includes
the author's name, address, and the title of the story.
Stories may be submitted on a PC or MAC disk in a plain text
format.  Remember, the story cannot be longer than
3500 words.  If you want your manuscript or disk returned,
include a SASE with your entry.  All submissions must be
received by June 15, 1996.

Any manuscripts which do not adhere to the above guidelines
will be returned unread.

Send manuscripts or disks to:

      PARSEC Short Story Contest
      PO Box 3681
      Pittsburgh, PA 15230-3681

Electronic submissions may be sent to
jjwalton@telerama.lm.com
(electronic submissions need not be double-spaced).





--- Via Silver Xpress V4.00 SW12427
 * Origin: ConFluence '96:  Return to Mars! (1:129/260)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 87 of 225
 From : Brandon Wolgast                     1:363/216       .òp 09 .íâ 96 00:02
 To   : All
 Subj : Foundation Again
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: HyperMail! v1.21 94-0049
Okay, I just finished all my other books and as I posted awhile ago am
ready to start the Foundation books.  I believe three people wrote to me
telling me the order (I'm sorry I forgot your names) to read them in but
I think along the way somewhere my print-outs got trashed. So I'm back
asking the same thing.  I know  Foundation was written first, but is
that the one to read first?  Should you read the one(s) before it even
though they were written after or even though they take place before
should you read them after? (kinda like the Star Wars movies, even
though all six will be out one of these days you should still watch
parts 4, 5, and 6 first.)  If I remember the order is:

Prelude to Foundation
Foundation
Foundations Edge
Second Foundation
Foundation and Empire
Forward the Foundation

Those are probably all wrong, but again, the books in the stores do not
tell what order they fall in. I am probably missing one also.  Again,
I want to thank anyone for any help they can give me.

---
 * OLX 2.1 TD * Hello, I am part number ||#||||#||#||#||

--- HyperMail! v1.21
 * Origin: Data Systems Internat'l (407)292-8009 Call Today! (1:363/216)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 88 of 225
 From : Chris Thurman                       1:141/415       .òp 09 .íâ 96 13:38
 To   : All Girls
 Subj : Science Fiction
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
If any girls are looking for a guy who like science fiction then call on your
phone, not the modem, 386-0660 and ask for Mike.  He is an avid science fiction
fan, and he dumped all his girlfriends because they didn't like science fiction.
He is a nice guy, 16 years old.  Call him if you want to try to get hooked up
with him, or if you just want to talk to a science fiction fan.  If he asks you
how you got his name and number then please say it wasn't me because he might
get mad at me, just tell him that you talked to someone named Joe, and that Joe
gave you his name and number.

THANX


--- Maximus 3.01
 * Origin: The Wacko Board (1:141/415)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 89 of 225
 From : Michael Harper                      1:123/10        .òp 09 .íâ 96 09:00
 To   : Robert Siemborski
 Subj : Dangerous Babes
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 -=> Over coffee and beignets, Robert Siemborski told Michael Harper all about

  Dangerous Babes...

 RS> Wow... I just realized, another acronym for Space Above And Beyond
 RS> would be SAAB, wouldn't it? ;-)

 Yep. Talk about free advertising...


... I was raised by psychopathic werewolves.
--- RA/FD/FMail
 * Origin: The Electric Fox - Memphis,TN, U.S.A.  1-901-327-1008 (1:123/10)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 90 of 225
 From : Michael Harper                      1:123/10        .òp 09 .íâ 96 09:00
 To   : Frank Glover
 Subj : Dangerous Babes
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 -=> Over coffee and beignets, Frank Glover told Michael Harper all about

  Dangerous Babes...

 MH>   Oh, yeah... <sigh> Definitely love dangerous women. The one I'm
 MH>  chasing now is taking about three forms of kung fu and can put an
 MH>  entire clip of 9mm into a one-inch circle...
 FG>
 FG> Whew! I certainly hope *she* likes *you!*

 Yeah, you could say that... you could also say that Cindy Crawford-Gere
 is kinda good-looking, too... She's a very sweet lady, is Gail. All
 the martial arts and firearms skill are helping her build up her
 self-esteem, and it's the best thing in the world for her. She's a
 truly astonishing woman, but like so many others, she doesn't believe
 it of herself. I can praise her beauty, strength and courage 'til I'm
 blue in the face, and all she'll say is "Mike, you are so fulla
 shit..."


... "Love looks not with the eyes but with the mind." -- Shakespeare
--- RA/FD/FMail
 * Origin: The Electric Fox - Memphis,TN, U.S.A.  1-901-327-1008 (1:123/10)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 91 of 225
 From : Bianca Wesslak                      1:132/152       .cê 07 .íâ 96 23:30
 To   : The Raven
 Subj : nuclear
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
From a woman with an overactive imagination.

 -=>what is dresden fill me in.
 PL> It's a shame History classes leave out so much these days...
 TR> It shows us, however, that this person is less than 20 years old.

Actually I am 21, and I did pretty well in my history classes, Dresden
was never mentioned in either current events, world history, am. history1,2
but thanks for filling me in.


... Live long and prosper, but don't let the IRS find out!
--- Blue Wave v2.12 [NR]
 * Origin: The Cereal Port BBS (OS/2) Rindge,NH 603-899-3335 (1:132/152)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 92 of 225
 From : Bianca Wesslak                      1:132/152       .cê 07 .íâ 96 23:51
 To   : Phill Ash
 Subj : nuclear
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
From a woman with an overactive imagination.

 PA> From astride a Pale Horse, iANATjd heard...

 cool header.  there has to be a story in that somewhere.

 PA> I'm an idealist of the highest order and it's plain to me
 PA> that, due to the advances in medicine and refinement of food
 PA> and fuel, humanity (as a whole) is slowly becoming stupider and
 PA> weaker.
 PA> Honestly speaking, (and think this one *all the way* through)
 PA> what would you do if, when you woke up in the morning, there
 PA> was no electricity - anywhere in the world?

 To be honest, no idea.  buy a lot of candles, then again no electricity
 I'd be out of a job.  Hope someone would teach me how to hunt, probably
 go to a reservation and beg and plead for some lessons.  Probably go find
 cookie a friend of mine with connection to some native americans.  I would
 not mind living the lifestyle.  Oh of course I'd moan and groan for a while
 but then who wouldn't.  What bout batteries.  why would the electricity be
 gone?   Our ancestors did it, I don't see why we couldn't, and by some
 people it is argued that they had more leisure time than we do?  don't
 ask me who, just something I remeber from somewhere.

PA> No.  It depends on how willing you are to share the land with
 PA> others.  Is it easier for you to go out with 10 others and
 PA> grow and harvest corn, or is it easier for you to take the corn
 PA> from another?

actually that can be debated, in my intercuteral communication class that
I took in my freshman year in colledge one of the things that I learned
was that for different people in different cultures space is something
relevant to the culture.  space wise the brazilians, arabics have a much
closer space comfort than say americans.  On the other hand somewhere
someone did a study on mice and over population and violence.   After a while
the mice did a lemming self destruct, they were comparing that to crime in
our society etc.  For me I'd rather harvest with ten others, spares the
workload and offers protection, and is safer.  I mean I may take it from the
others but who says for how long?

 PA> Nope.  Never read any Feist <G>  Howzabout Harry Turtledove's
 PA> "WorldWar" series (book II should be out in paperback soon)...
 PA> 6 months after Pearl Harbor - the Aliens invade.  It's one hell
 PA> of an examination of socio-political standards and their
 PA> positive and negative uses.

 never heard of him, how bout norton and lackey.  Norton especially has a lot
 of books of after the apocalypse civilization.

PA> The Vogons will...
BW> ?????, who art, they???
PA> awwww!
 PA> c'mon!
 PA> Don't tell me you've never heard the radio program,
 PA> read the book, seen the BBC series, heard the album,
 PA> read the "photonovel" of "The Hitch-Hiker's Guide to
 PA> the Galaxy"!!!

nope, read a bit from so long and thanks for all the fish though, that's
something you and J.t. could talk about, he's read the whole series.  Has
the leather bound book and all that.
Your pal:  PhlAsh

 PA> ... Memory will slowly fade.  I lift my eyes and say, "C'mon, take me
 PA> away!" -!-

isn't that supposed to be calgon?<VBG>

... "42?  7+  million years and all you can come up with is 42?!"
--- Blue Wave v2.12 [NR]
 * Origin: The Cereal Port BBS (OS/2) Rindge,NH 603-899-3335 (1:132/152)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 93 of 225
 From : Tisha Mcgary                        1:350/33        .ÿò 05 .íâ 96 19:06
 To   : Michael Harper
 Subj : Highlander
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 NC> from the Kurgan in Highlander, huh?

 MH> Actually, one of my favorite roles for Clancy was that of Rawhide,
 MH> Buckaroo Banzai's right-hand man, in _Buckaroo Banzai_... I watched E2
 MH> mostly for him, on those odd occasions when I watched it at all.



Am I the only one who was seriously put out by the cancellation of that show?

I loved It!!!



--- Maximus 2.02
 * Origin: The PYRAMID bbs (1:350/33)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 94 of 225
 From : Trevor Pack                         1:134/125       .îí 08 .íâ 96 17:36
 To   : Marco Catalano
 Subj : X-files
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
My favorite episode is the one about voodoo. Did you see the one about killer
cochroaches?
TTYL\

--- Maximus 2.02
 * Origin: View of the Rockies 403-291-6721 Calgary AB (1:134/125)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 95 of 225
 From : Longhair                            1:123/569       .îí 08 .íâ 96 20:04
 To   : Barton Paul Levenson
 Subj : elfquest
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE 1.11+

 -=> And Barton Paul Levenson did express this opinion  to Longhair <=-

 BPL> I was a big elfquest fan in the early '80s, though I haven't seen
 BPL> much of it recently.

   You haven't been spending enough time in a comics shop. :> There are now
several regular monthly or bi-monthly titles. You've got your
 EQ - Shards (following Cutter, Rayek, Treestump, Strongbow... in their fight to
reclaim the palace pieces)
    - Hidden Years (following Ember, Leetah, Skywise,.... as they preserve the
Way by having set up far far away from the Shards group)
    - New Blood (about to be canceled. Followed Dart, Suntop, Wing....as they
went up against some humans and a Messiah-complexed Door)
    - Blood of Ten Chiefs (tales from the past.)
    - "Jink" and "Rebels", both set far far in the future. Better than I
expected them to be.
    - also a Kahvi and Two-Spear limited series running.

   There's more EQ out there now then there ever has been. Enjoy.

... Death called while you were out, so I gave him your pager number.
--- Blue Wave/RA v2.12 [NR]
 * Origin: 9 out of 5 Schizos prefer Lunatic Fringe! 382-LUST (1:123/569)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 96 of 225
 From : Nicolai Shapero                     1:102/524       .îí 08 .íâ 96 06:38
 To   : Michael Rowe
 Subj : X-files
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Jan 06 20:36>, Michael Rowe (1:134/125) wrote to Roelof Otten:

 MR>go bite yourself

Strongly suggest that you watch your behavior here, lest your access to this
conference will be "seriously restricted".

-- Nicolai Shapero, Moderator of the SFFAN echo

--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 97 of 225
 From : Kay Shapero                         1:102/524       .îí 08 .íâ 96 17:08
 To   : Frank Glover
 Subj : Re: F&SF???
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Jan 06 14:41>, Frank Glover (1:2613/477) wrote to Phill Ash:

PA>          All I've seen for the past few weeks is babble about the pros
PA>  & cons of nuclear power...
 FG>
 FG>   Oh it's still somewhere between those postings. (I kinda
 FG>expect Nicolai to clamp down any time now....)

So did I but he seems to have joined the party...  Now if we want to take a
skiffy slant, there's always Heinlein's "Blowups Happen" which iirc has little
if anything to do with the technical side of modern atomic power or even most of
the theory, but is still a most entertaining tale of coping with catastrophe at
high speed.

And for that matter, though the disaster in Leslie Fish's song "The Day It Fell
Apart" is a non-nuclear related steam explosion (as opposed to Chernobyl which
was a nuclear-related steam explosion), it's an interesting exposition on coping
when emergency and law conflict.  In case you're unfamiliar with it, a doctor at
a small town plant chooses expediency over law, saves a lot of lives in
consequence and then has to run for it.  She's given permission to post her
works to the net, so I may transcribe it on here sometime.

And as for pros and cons, if those "professionals" at Chernobyl who stupidly
shut down ever last safety feature had survived the experience, I daresay they'd
be convicts by now...  :/



... Galileo held hostage - Day 21


--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 98 of 225
 From : ROBERT LIDGREN                      1:134/10        .óá 06 .íâ 96 20:51
 To   : ALL
 Subj : NOWHERE MAN
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Recently, I read comments from one member who complained that some
messages lacked substance.  Here's my attempt to rectify this to
a degree.

I am reposting information, in detail about this week's episode of
NOWHERE MAN.

All comments between "BEGIN REPOST" "END REPOST" below COME from the
NOWHERE MAN web site at:

      http://www.abacus.ghj.com/sci_fi/nowhere/nowhere.htm?

This week's episode was a repeat:

------------
BEGIN REPOST
------------

EPISODE:  PARADISE ON YOUR DOORSTEP

Veil is astonished when he's maneuvered into a haven for the
"Disenfranchised", but steadfastly refuses to assimilate into
this strange community.

After getting a job in small town photo shop, Tom is stunned
to glimpse a picture of his wife Alyson as he processes a customers
film. He frantically pursues that customer to question where she shot
the picture, but the chase lands him in New Phoenix, a haven for the
disenfranchised and community of people who have for one reason
or another, lost their identity at the hands of the mysterious enemy,
in "Nowhere Man".

Bruce Greenwood stars as Thomas Veil. Saxon Trainor
stars as Dierdre Coltrera, Stephen Meadows as Paul.

The episode was written by Lawrence Hertzog
and directed by Tom Wright.

-------------------------------------------------
Comments by Lawrence Hertzog on "Paradise on Your Doorstep"
-----------------------------------------------

I suppose I'll hear from "The Prisoner" fans about this one. Hard to see
"New Phoenix" and not think about the Village. But there's something
different here - The folks in New Phoenix are on Tom's side - or at
least
they claim to be.

It opens some interesting questions about just what is our side and just
who decides to be "on it." More importantly, I believe that the episode
opens a fundamentally troublesome question: How often do we become
the very thing that we oppose? And how easy is it to rationalize this
behavior because - when we're doing it, it's "okay" because it's well
motivated (read "it's us").

We seem to be living in a day and age where "having a good reason"
stands paramount above an individually moral and/or ethical point of
view. All one apparently needs is to feel slighted, marred, injured or
overlooked to justify almost any behavior. It's not only possibly
acceptable to pump shotgun rounds into your parents' heads, but, under
the proper circumstances, it might be an act of political heroism.

We get to rail against racism and sexism with no regard as to whether or
not, in our cause, we are exhibiting the very behavior that we speak to
overthrow. In the midst of all this, a voice raised against the
group-think
will surely be considered a "troublemaker."

It opens seriously the question of "sides" at all. In The Prisoner,
there
was often a question of "is it us or them." In "Paradise" we open the
question, "what's the difference."

-------------
END OR REPOST
-------------

If you find this information to be interesting and of help in your
exploration of this new series let me know.  I am enjoying the series
but have not seen enough of the episodes myself to make a firm
assessment.

I would appreciate further discussion here about Tom Veil and his
predicament in the series - I think we just might have a "sleeper"
here which could become much more successful with greater fan
attention.

Cheers and all my best!

======================================================================
| Robert Lidgren \\\|/// * THE INNER SANCTUM | * The Old Viking      |
|                ( o o ) * Writer, Teacher   | * Seeker of the Truth |
| =========o00o====(_)====o00o=======================================|
| e-mail me at------------> robert.lidgren@bbs.logicnet.com          |
| My Personal Web Site----> http://www.logicnet.com/robert.lidgren   |
======================================================================
--- PCBoard 15.2
 * Origin: 32 lines 40 Gig BBS, Realtime InterNet SLIP (403)299-9900 (1:134/10)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 99 of 225
 From : ROBERT LIDGREN                      1:134/10        .óá 06 .íâ 96 21:02
 To   : FRANK SWARBRICK
 Subj : NOWHERE MAN
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
-> I didn't see the original message, but I watch Nowhere Man.  In fact,
-> I've recorded all the episodes so far.  It's a good show, but I feel
-> it could be better.  Many of the episodes just don't seem to..go
-> anywhere.  Still, I'm hopeful.

I posted, tonight, information on tonight's repeat episode:  Paradise on
Your Doorstep.

When Veil is drugged at the end the whole conspiracy comes spiralling
back into his face.  I thought the story line was a pretty good one
despite the obvious connections one might make to "The Prisoner" with
Patrick McGoohan.

---------------------------------------------------------------------

Please note, there is a special 90-minute espisode of NOWHERE
MAN scheduled for NEXT WEEK!  I'm not sure id this is a re-run of the
pilot or what but do tune in and we can discuss this one too.

---------------------------------------------------------------------

======================================================================
| Robert Lidgren \\\|/// * THE INNER SANCTUM | * The Old Viking      |
|                ( o o ) * Writer, Teacher   | * Seeker of the Truth |
| =========o00o====(_)====o00o=======================================|
| e-mail me at------------> robert.lidgren@bbs.logicnet.com          |
| My Personal Web Site----> http://www.logicnet.com/robert.lidgren   |
======================================================================
--- PCBoard 15.2
 * Origin: 32 lines 40 Gig BBS, Realtime InterNet SLIP (403)299-9900 (1:134/10)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 100 of 225
 From : Star Hawk                           1:362/708.6     .cê 07 .íâ 96 04:47
 To   : Jo De Man
 Subj : Weber
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
From my perch I saw this come out of the gravity well from Jo De Man:

  [> Jo De Man [> Heard his next book (inheriters of the empire or something
  [> like that) is in this series (sounds good)

  [> Star Hawk [> Well and good.

  [> Jo De Man [> Any idea when it will be out ? (the sooner the better)

     Nope! No idea at all [sorry this is so late, been busy with other matters
and let my mail pile up].

  [> Jo De Man [> PS : Another book I liked was called 'FROST'; I think it
  [> was written by Robin W Bailey (or something like that). Ever heard
  [> about it ? (the follow-ups where out of print by the time I read it)

     Doesn't ring a bell... then again, i've got several stacks of books in my
"to read" pile that i'll have to get around to one of these days... <sigh><g>

                                        Star Hawk, the EchoTrickster

--- MacWoof Eval:23Dec93
 * Origin: William Bull Hedrick @ Hawk Haven's Orbital Point (1:362/708.6)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 101 of 225
 From : Star Hawk                           1:362/708.6     .cê 07 .íâ 96 05:34
 To   : Darre LuAllen
 Subj : Khans - Nooga way
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
From my perch I saw this come out of the gravity well from Darre LuAllen:

  [> Darre LuAllen [> Hey, a Khan-man from the Nooga area... First
  [> ChattaCon for me was 12 and I was at the first LibertyCon.  Who's
  [> s'pose to be at this next year's Liberty and do you have an address
  [> or phone number for someone on Khan staff?  (preferably the staffer
  [> in charge of registration)  If you're planning to be at Chattacon,
  [> I'll be the third partier from the left.

     Then you were around when i was part of the Chattacon board [Head Video];
you will likely spot me wandering the dealers' room... probably with my laptop
in tow.  [Considering the hour this is being written, i'm doing good to remember
my own name, much less who's scheduled for the cons... <g>]

                                        Star Hawk, the EchoTrickster

--- MacWoof Eval:23Dec93
 * Origin: William Bull Hedrick @ Hawk Haven's Orbital Point (1:362/708.6)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 102 of 225
 From : Star Hawk                           1:362/708.6     .cê 07 .íâ 96 21:42
 To   : Jeff Hancock
 Subj : B5 -- Coincidence?
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
From my perch I saw this come out of the gravity well from Jeff Hancock:

  [> Star Hawk [> Probably WINGS OF HONNEAMIS: ROYAL SPACE FORCE.

  [> Jeff Hancock [> I wonder how it related to B5, then... Since the
  [> implication was that someone said JMS borrowed from WOH, and I
  [> don't see much similarity offhand. Perhaps it's a more specific
  [> nod (such as the "Forbidden Planet" scene), assuming there was
  [> anything resembling a reference at all and not just some person's
  [> overactive imagination.

     I'm at a loss to find any real connection between WoH and B5... and i've
seen WoH [although not recently].  Without more to go on, i'd go with the
overactive imagination.

                                        Star Hawk, the EchoTrickster

--- MacWoof Eval:23Dec93
 * Origin: William Bull Hedrick @ Hawk Haven's Orbital Point (1:362/708.6)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 103 of 225
 From : Kevin Ahearn                        1:109/104       .pä 10 .íâ 96 20:20
 To   : Emilio Ares
 Subj : Re: SLIDERS/ANY NEWS?
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 EA> replacement. With my


 EA> If all goes well they'll lose Melrose Place or some of the other idiotic
 EA> prime-time soaps.

Fox lose a cash cow like "Melrose Place?"  Dream on...

--Kevin


--- Maximus/2 3.01
 * Origin: ShanErin (1:109/104)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 104 of 225
 From : Donald Sohn                         1:109/369       .pä 10 .íâ 96 17:22
 To   : All
 Subj : X-Files & E.T.
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Did anyone see the short story that Entertainment Tonight had on Gillian
Anderson and David Duchovney posing for Rolling Stones?  I think it's just for
Australia though.  :(

Anybody from Australia?

--- Maximus/2 3.01
 * Origin: UFOria (Clifton, VA) 703-803-6420 (1:109/369)


Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 105 of 225
 From : Bianca Wesslak                      1:132/152       .òp 09 .íâ 96 20:57
 To   : Frank Glover
 Subj : Re: nuclear BS
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
From a woman with an overactive imagination.

 BW>   TR> Who?  Greenpeace?  ROFL!  I worked for them for a while, until I

 FG> ROFL: a common electronic message expression meaning `Rolling On
 FG> the

Floor, Laughing.'
 When it was first posted I thought it was an acronym for something?

 FG> Also, Coal burning can add to global warming, and leaves a mildly

 did I say I was for coal burning?  I don't remember typing anything for it?

 FG>

toxic ash to be disposed of. Hydroelectric means flooding a valley

 FG>

somewhere. (and what if it breaks?)
 Not all the time, Niagra falls isn't flooding a valley.  That's why I said
 niagra.  I was meaning hydroelectric via river falls.
 I like solar photovoltaic

 FG> systema,

but I know some pretty nasty stuff (like arsenic) is

 FG> involved in its

production.
 that's is one of it's bad sides granted but I like it a lot better than
 a lot of current methods.


... "Five fish!  I'll be rich!" -- The Cat
--- Blue Wave v2.12 [NR]
 * Origin: The Cereal Port BBS (OS/2) Rindge,NH 603-899-3335 (1:132/152)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 106 of 225
 From : Bianca Wesslak                      1:132/152       .òp 09 .íâ 96 21:28
 To   : Don Dellmann
 Subj : nuclear BS
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
From a woman with an overactive imagination.

 DD> Greenpeace is one of the greatest threats to our freedom there is.
 DD> Their political agenda is to control our country the way they want to
 DD> control it, and the methods they use are criminal, in fact felonious,
 DD> by the laws of every civilized nation in the world.

 I cannot and will not believe such a statement.  Do they attack you?
 Who are most of their attacks aimed at, If I am not mistaken, they are
 aimed at corporations.  As for their methods, in a weird way I kinda
  agree with them.  Those trees and plants out there are beautiful entities.
  They need to be protected.

 DD> You've got cause & effect turned around here a little, The reactor
 DD> heats water (just like burning coal), which is then fed through a heat
 DD> exchanger to heat more water which does not become radioactive, which
 DD> runs the turbines that create your power.

 okay thanks I knew I was missing some schemactical thing in there somewhere.

 BW> that they're are much more safer and  saner ways of getting energy.
 BW> wind, solar, geothermal, and hydroelectric, like niagra falls.  I don't
 BW> like the though of using stuff that can level cities and leave behind
 BW> destruction and death even years later.  It can infilltrate  ground
 DD> Wind is not reliable, geothermal is only available in a very few parts
 DD> of the world and still relies on heat creating steam, Dams for hydro
 DD> destroy large areas of the forest by creating resevoirs, (and what
 DD> about the tremendous loss of life if a Dam "breaks"),

 That is why I said niagra.  Maybe wind is not reliable but it can be used
 in conjunction with geo thermal, solar, and hydroelectric.  And I am pretty
 sure there has got to be a way to make electric power in which we are so
 bleeping dependent on in conjunction with the enviroment.  Going back to
 the upper schematic, when those turbines move, they have in them a magnet
 do they not which when turning makes electricity.  I'm sure if we had a bunch
 of people thinking of safe, and enviromentally sound ways to make it they
 could come up with something.  I don't know maybe put some turbines floating
 in the gulf stream or something, the force of ocean currents could maybe
 turn those things.  It would have to be safe guarded against, and safe guarded
 for the animals currently still able to live in the worlds oceans.

 DD> Fine, you are afraid of fire, you go huddle in the cold in your cave,
 DD> hunt for your food and try to keep warm in your animal skin (oh, I'm
 DD> sorry, you don't kill animals either, I guess you'll just have to live
 DD> on berries in the jungle).

Being a hermit at some points is something that I consider, not seriously,
but I'm here for a reason, that reason is to work with people.  hiding
out in some primordial jungle doesn't get me out there trying to change
things in the world.  What makes you think that I am a vegetarian?  I eat
meat.  I don't hunt currently, one because no knowledge and two I can do
all my major hunting in stores.  And if I was to huddle in my cave I darn
well would use fire, caves are not cold, they have a consistent temp,
year round.  They are also humid and have rock and sand and stuff, not
easy to have an out of control fire in there.  I was using fire as a metaphor.

DD> If man was not meant to overcome nature, he would have never evolved
 DD> on  this earth.

Many people would disagree with you there.  native americans who still believe
in the old ways would.  Chief seattle would.  I'm pretty sure they're are
other ecclectic people,  especially the native tribal people who still
utilize their old ways.
 Couldn't think of anything on topic so I'll change the topic
 who are your fave authors and what major theme do you notice they use
 in their writing?

 DD> ... Don't blame me for gravity; I voted for Velcro.

got it.


... I'm weird, but around here its barely noticeable.
--- Blue Wave v2.12 [NR]
 * Origin: The Cereal Port BBS (OS/2) Rindge,NH 603-899-3335 (1:132/152)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 107 of 225
 From : Channon Lang                        1:130/809       .åò 11 .íâ 96 05:26
 To   : The Raven
 Subj : Re: Good Ole Riker...
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE 1.11+
From a dark bottomless pit,The Raven screamed up to Robert Lidgren about Good
Ole Riker.....

 TR> He guested on a recent episode of "Lois and Clark", as well as
 TR> having directed half a dozen episodes of DS9, Voyager, L&C, and a bunch
 TR> of other shows.  He also regularly does voice work for Disney's
 TR> "Gargoyles" cartoon series.

 I thought that was his voice....I don't usually get the chance to read
 credits for anything anymore....I do good to even get to watch the shows
 with my 8 months old these days. I think I have also seem Frakes and his
 wife together on Deadly Games as well.

 Channon



... H: Always Know Where Your Towel Is
--- MachoEcho 0.5ñ
 * Origin: The State of Confusion * Arlington Tx * 817-274-1920 * (1:130/809)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 108 of 225
 From : Channon Lang                        1:130/809       .åò 11 .íâ 96 05:26
 To   : Michael Harper
 Subj : Re: Star Trek
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE 1.11+
From a dark bottomless pit,Michael Harper screamed up to Sean Cooper about Star
Trek..

 SC> Well, I kinda' like X-Files, B5 sucks and Alien Nation is okay...I
 SC> guess..     AND TREK WILL ALWAYS BE WORTH WATCHING !!

 MH> B5 sucks? How'd you arrive at that opinion? Several of the people who
 MH> created the original Trek are involved with the show, and you say it
 MH> sucks?

 MH> Sorry, kid. Until you can give me a rational basis for your opinion
 MH> of B5, we have nothing to talk about. An emotional response is simply
 MH> not acceptable. Give me a rational response, or go away.

 Actually, if you want to know the truth, until this last season, I couldn't
 stand Babylon 5. I think, though, it was the different writing methods and
 the different types of special effects that I had problems adjusting to.
 The episode that caught my attention is the one that had the "sex scene"
 in it. I just happened to be channel surfing and those particular aliens
 caught my attention. I just about died laughing at that one. I've been
 hooked ever since.

 I think what happens is people just had gotten used to seeing Starfleet
 and some people, myself included, had problems adjusting.

 Channon
... I was raised by psychopathic werewolves.
--- MachoEcho 0.5ñ
 * Origin: The State of Confusion * Arlington Tx * 817-274-1920 * (1:130/809)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 109 of 225
 From : Michael Harper                      1:123/10        .pä 10 .íâ 96 13:18
 To   : Tommy Kellerman
 Subj : Kristen and the bushes
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 -=> Over coffee and beignets, Tommy Kellerman told Michael Harper all about
 -=> Cybersex...

 MH>  Kristen Cloke is the dark-haired beauty who plays Vansen on Space:
 MH>  Above & Beyond. There's something about her that makes me want to grab
 MH>  her and run into the woods...

 TK> And what would happen in there...?     =)

 I doubt that you're so young that you can't imagine it better than I
 can describe it... suffice to say there'd be a lot of moaning and
 screaming going on, and they'd have to drag both of us out on
 gurneys...

 And as soon as we recovered, we'd be back for more!


... "I don't know what your pleasure threshold is."
--- RA/FD/FMail
 * Origin: The Electric Fox - Memphis,TN, U.S.A.  1-901-327-1008 (1:123/10)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 110 of 225
 From : Shawn Merrow                        1:3407/14       .åò 11 .íâ 96 00:28
 To   : Chip Griffin
 Subj : Re: nuclear BS
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

-> Actually I can think of one example where you are wrong, and there
-> aren't many people who will even know what I am talking about.  There
-> was a plant, SL-1, the US.Army was learning on in the early days
-> (~1950s or 60s I think).  They were doing some maintenance on
-> Christmas eve (or about that time of year) in Idaho when something
-> went wrong.  They pulled the rods (done manually in those days) too
-> fast or something and had a "steam explosion".  All this means is
-> that they were creating so much power so fast that the water nearly
-> instantaneously boiled in one area of the reactor.  The rods were
-> ejected, all errr both the technicians were killed by the explosion
-> (one impaled into the ceiling - took them a while to discover the
-> body, no one thought to look up), and the supervisor was killed by
-> the radiation when he came to see what was going on.  They dismantled
-> the whole thing and burried it under concrete out there ...

I've heard of it. What they were doing was replacing some gears on a
control rod, when they apariently pulled it out to far. Their were three
workers killed in the accident. Two were blown to the side and the third
was impaled with the control rod. When that hapen alarms went of all
over the site. Though evan with this type of accident almost no radation
left the building.

--- QScan/PCB v1.16b / 01-0024
 * Origin:  (1:3407/14)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 111 of 225
 From : Jerry Van Kooten                    2:280/901.37    .òp 09 .íâ 96 18:09
 To   : Darren Lovatt
 Subj : Red Dwarf / TNG crossover
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Hi Darren,

Quoting <Darren Lovatt> to <Christian Kent> (07-Jan-96, 17:55:14)
Subject: <Red Dwarf / TNG crossover>

 DL> I have 2 or 3 texts writen by fans of RD on the Star Trek /RD theme ! I
 DL> could post it in small sections here if you like or it's available from
 DL> the address below at your own expense !

Could you please give me an sample of one of the texts? I still don't have
a clue what it's about.

What would the size of an ARJ or ZIP be, with the texts?

Thanks,
Jerry

--- Terminate 3.00/Pro
 * Origin: Your Own Death And How To Cope With It... (2:280/901.37)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 112 of 225
 From : Mark Jones                          1:105/302.47    .òp 09 .íâ 96 22:41
 To   : Don Dellmann
 Subj : nuclear BS
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On (08 Jan 96) Don Dellmann wrote to Bianca Wesslak...

 DD> I've been trying to resist replying to this thread for weeks, since
 DD> it's obviously off topic, but I just can't help myself any longer.

   Well, since Nicolai (the Big Cheese around here) is participating
in this thread, it can't be *too* far off topic....

 DD> The ONE MOST IMPORTANT POINT about the whole Three Mile Island
 DD> incident that everybody misses, is that it proved once and for
 DD> all, how SAFE Nuclear power really is. The worst accident that
 DD> could happen, lack of cooling and core meltdown, happened, and,
 DD> outside the containment area, radiation NEVER exceeded safe
 DD> levels.

Not *all* of us missed it.  Some of us have been making that point
repeatedly.

 DD> Greenpeace is one of the greatest threats to our freedom there
 DD> is. Their political agenda is to control our country the way they
 DD> want to control it, and the methods they use are criminal, in
 DD> fact felonious, by the laws of every civilized nation in the
 DD> world.

I think you exaggerate (and believe me, I'm not fan of Greenpeace).
Yes, I believe that the agenda of *some* members of Greenpeace is to
repeal the 20th century (technologically, anyhow).  But that isn't
going to happen.  They can't.  And most of them are simply sincerely
concerned (whether correctly or not) about the environment.


--- PPoint 1.78
 * Origin: Folcroft Sanitarium (hsmith@cure.com) (1:105/302.47)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 113 of 225
 From : Mark Jones                          1:105/302.47    .òp 09 .íâ 96 22:46
 To   : J.T. Smith
 Subj : nuclear
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On (06 Jan 96) J.T. Smith wrote to Piotr W. Cholewa...

 JS> As long as errors are capable of entering the equation, Nuclear
 JS> power is still extremely dangerous. TMI is now trying to cyphon
 JS> (sp?) off the radioactive wastewater that has been left behind
 JS> there into the atmosphere. Gee, just what I've always wanted. No
 JS> thanks.

   As long as errors are possible, ANY form of energy is dangerous.
Forest fires destroy *how* many acres of woodland every year?  How
many people are killed by coal, oil, gasoline and other fossil fuels
every year?


--- PPoint 1.78
 * Origin: Folcroft Sanitarium (hsmith@cure.com) (1:105/302.47)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 114 of 225
 From : Mark Jones                          1:105/302.47    .òp 09 .íâ 96 22:48
 To   : J.T. Smith
 Subj : VIRTUAL SEX
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On (06 Jan 96) J.T. Smith wrote to ROBERT LIDGREN...

 JS> Well, I can think of instances where it wouldn't be such a bad
 JS> thing. I mean, there are people that I wouldn't mind sleeping
 JS> with, but if I did, me fiance would kill me. OTOH, in the virtual
 JS> realm, ye could experiment and nae anyone would get hurt. Only an
 JS> idea. (Besides, in the same vein, ye could possibly experiment
 JS> with ideas that ye've always wanted to try but are socially
 JS> unacceptable. In this realm, what other people don't know canna
 JS> hurt ye.)

   ...but if virtual sex is indistinguishable from actual sex, your
fiancee might be just as angry about your virtual infidelities as
she'd be about a flesh-and-blood tryst.  Possibly more so--she
probably can safely assume that no matter how much you drool over
[insert starlet of your choice here], the chances of your actually
sleeping with her in reality are pretty slim.  If she's available on a
$19.95 rental disk, though....

   And if you engage your taste for pain by sadistically tormenting
virtual victims, are you still twisted psycho?  Is it still a vicious,
evil thing to do?  Even if nobody is *really* hurt?  Even if you'd
never, ever do it to a REAL person?
   I'd say:  yes, it is still sick.  Because you're engaging a taste
for inflicting misery on others--even if those others don't exist.
   I'd also defend your right to do it since no *real* person is being
harmed.  But I wouldn't care to associate with you much.


--- PPoint 1.78
 * Origin: Folcroft Sanitarium (hsmith@cure.com) (1:105/302.47)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 115 of 225
 From : Mark Jones                          1:105/302.47    .òp 09 .íâ 96 22:53
 To   : David Johnston
 Subj : Nuclear
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On (08 Jan 96) David Johnston wrote to Phill Ash...

 DJ> -> I'm an idealist of the highest order and it's plain to me
 DJ> -> that, due to the advances in medicine and refinement of food
 DJ> -> and fuel, humanity (as a whole) is slowly becoming stupider
 DJ> -> and weaker.
 DJ>
 DJ> Nope.  Merely more adapted to it's present environment.

   Yep.  And if civilization collapses, those of us who cannot adapt
to the new situation will die off, leaving the survivors to repopulate
the planet with better-suited descendents.  (I don't know about anyone
else, but *I* need glasses.  And I'd be dead if not for the existence
of antibiotics.)


--- PPoint 1.78
 * Origin: Folcroft Sanitarium (hsmith@cure.com) (1:105/302.47)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 116 of 225
 From : Mark Jones                          1:105/302.47    .cê 07 .íâ 96 13:22
 To   : Brion Lienhart
 Subj : nuclear
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On (05 Jan 96) Brion Lienhart wrote to The Raven...

 BL> But they won't die soon enough to prevent them from carrying the
 BL> crap outside the disposal site and screwing up the surrounding
 BL> countryside.

Keep in mind that the proposal was to mix the waste into concrete
blocks and stack them in this fenced off piece of desert.  Nobody said
the blocks had to be *small*.

Do you know what a "Hercules Lock" is?  The military uses them to keep
unauthorized people out of chemical warfare storage facilities here in
Oregon.  Its a huge piece of concrete weighing tons which fits into a
hole in the concrete pad in front of the door to the warehouse.  The
only possible way to move it is to use a crane.

Using a crane is noisy and obvious.  Terrorists trying to steal the
materials are going to find it difficult to do so without waking the
guards when they start up the crane....

And nobody who doesn't have (or doesn't know how to drive) a crane is
going to move that lock at all.

So make the radioactive waste blocks six feet on a side and stack them
like pyramids.  The morons can play on and around them all they want,
but they aren't going to strew them around the countryside.


--- PPoint 1.78
 * Origin: Folcroft Sanitarium (hsmith@cure.com) (1:105/302.47)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 117 of 225
 From : Mark Jones                          1:105/302.47    .îí 08 .íâ 96 18:55
 To   : Lawrence E Dunlap
 Subj : tv and sf
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On (04 Jan 96) Lawrence E Dunlap wrote to Kevin Ahearn...

 LE> The First Amendment is partly a problem. However, it is only a
 LE> small part of the problem.

   I don't consider it a problem--I consider it a blessing.  A
miracle, even, given the government we have.

 LE>    My issue is the manner in which the (obviously materialistic)
 LE> creative community openly admits severely educationally compromised
 LE> producers into their ranks.
 LE>
 LE> In any alternative television occupation such as media news
 LE> journalism or the technical television occupations, such analogs
 LE> of the educationally compromised producers wouldn't make the
 LE> final cut for the *first* interview.

   I think you're giving the rest of the media too much credit.  Ask
anyone who works in a given field how accurately the media reports the
reality of their field...and stand back.  And I know first-hand (as a
fire-breathing Second Amendment advocate who watches these things)
just how ignorant most of the media are about firearms.  And I'm not
talking about their political views--I'm talking about basic facts
regarding the technology, the construction, operation and and
terminology of firearms.  They haven't got a clue.

 LE>    The defectives seem to be liberally indulged in their unworkable
 LE> flights of fancy which sometimes make a great amount of unexpected
 LE> money. I suspect there are times when these are loathed when
 LE> obmoxiously insouciant with some more literate producer or outsider.

   And how does this differ from any other field, where your ability
to get results for your employers matters more to them than your
personality or education?  If my stockbroker is a barely housebroken
moron with grade-school politics...but he nonetheless can make me
richer than Croesus, I'll live with that.

 LE> What I'm wishing for is a housecleaning of educational defectives
 LE> from TV and movie studios at the hands of several fairly
 LE> visionary media executive leaders who will expect nothing less
 LE> than substantial capacity to be inspired, challenged and
 LE> motivated to produce "high quality" yet accessable prodcutions
 LE> because of their exposure to moderm and classical literature and
 LE> arts. Most of our classical literature was populist writings that
 LE> struck an echo in successive generations.

What you're wishing for is a "Culture Czar" like William Bennett--with
the political power to shoot everyone who doesn't toe the line.
That's the ONLY way you could get what you want.  And frankly, *I'd*
shoot back, if it came to that.  Thanks, but no thank.

 LE> Next is a housecleaning of advertizing agnecy executives who
 LE> lower the denominators of the concepts in TV that corrupts the
 LE> average viewer to accept literal *sewage*

Why am I reminded of the Khmer Rouge rounding up villagers and working
them in the fields all day, then shooting everyone who developed
blisters because they were obviously intellectuals (who'd never done
heavy manual labor)?

 LE>    I would prefer the literacy of British TV producers to the American
 LE> defectives. American TV houses don't expect enough of their employees

Keep in mind that they have no freedom of speech in Britain.  You're
allowed to say only as much as the gummint *lets* you say.  That's a
mighty steep price for the alleged superiority of their product.

 LE> Europeans expect greater exposure to high literature and arts to
 LE> create an understanding of the best of the breed of the
 LE> arts--leading to production tensions between high art and the
 LE> tasdte of the multitudes.

Meanwhile, BAYWATCH (created by those morons in Hollywood) is the
most-watched show IN THE WORLD--including Europe.

 LE>    Most disturbing is the low quality of commerical American TV and

...which gets exported all over the world because people WANT it.

 LE> I suggest that similar care and devotion to high art in the hands
 LE> of a sufficiently literate and developed production house could
 LE> lift sf tv as well, if a strong-spirited visionary will take
 LE> charge of a studio invest in that producer even as he clears out
 LE> deadwood educational defect8ives and brings commonly literate
 LE> producers and workers.

This is America.  Go for it.  Build a better mousetrap--and you can
become the Bill Gates of the next century.

 LE> Simply put, when you lead and train someone as though they will
 LE> and *can* become what they *could* be and be the very best at the
 LE> same time, the mentored almost certainly will rise to that level
 LE> of expectation or fall short of it because of natural
 LE> deficencies.

Or they'll turn you off and go watch Baywatch because you're boring
the pants off them with your pseudo-intellectual claptrap.  BAYWATCH
doesn't outdraw Masterpiece Theatre because they have more money--they
have more money because they outdraw Masterpiece Theatre.  They're
giving their audience what the audience wants.  (Gadzooks--letting the
unwashed masses see what they like?  Civilization falls!  Film at
11:00!)

 LE> American TV production houses lack people with the specific
 LE> literary breeding to accomplish this apart from a thorough
 LE> housecleaning with replacement with significantly improved
 LE> education and vastly changed attitude about producing low concept
 LE> TV.

So when can I expect to see you CNN cleaning house with an AK-47?


--- PPoint 1.78
 * Origin: Folcroft Sanitarium (hsmith@cure.com) (1:105/302.47)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 118 of 225
 From : Jan vantEnt                         2:512/1.1       .îí 08 .íâ 96 07:58
 To   : Marco Catalano
 Subj : Space: Above & Beyond
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: FastEcho 1.30/g 4253
Hi Marco, in a message of <5 Jan 95> you mentioned to Samantha Dobbs:

 >  SD> Are there any fan out there?
 MC> Dunno yet, Samantha.
 MC> The pilot of SAAB is airing in the Netherlands tomorrow.

Yah, seen it, and found it rather disappointing.

<Jan>

---
 * Origin: The Ent. - Capelle a/d IJssel, Netherlands (2:512/1.1)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 119 of 225
 From : David Johnston                      1:342/14        .åò 11 .íâ 96 01:12
 To   : Phill Ash
 Subj : F&sf???
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
->       No really...
->       Have *you* heard anything confirming or denying the return of
->       'Sliders'?

From "Previews" (a comic book distributors magazine):

   "As of this writing, the Sliders TV show has been scheduled to return
as a mid season replacement on Fox, starting sometime in early '96.
Stay updated and in tune on Slider's continuity as the (comic book)
miniseries picks up where the TV show leaves off.  Don't get left out of
the excitement and miss this landmark miniseries..."

--- PCBoard (R) v15.21/100
 * Origin: Freddy's Place - Edm. AB - 28.8K (403) 456-4241 (1:342/14)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 120 of 225
 From : Bill Clements                       1:18/230        .pä 10 .íâ 96 17:47
 To   : All
 Subj : NUCLEAR
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
        Most of the discussion in this thread; and resulting
threadlets; was addressed in "Fusion Without Ex-Lax" first
published in "GALAXY" October 1976 (C)opyright by UPD Publishing
Corporation Inc. and reprinted in "A STEP FARTHER OUT" (C)opyright
1979 by Jerry Pournelle, Ph.D..
        Acquire this book; READ IT COVER TO COVER; then address
any further questions, comments, etc., to Dr. Pournelle.

--- FLAME v1.1
 * Origin: ANCESTRY TBBS Shadows of forgotten ancestors 941-382-9061 (1:18/230)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 121 of 225
 From : Jhereg                              1:271/285       .pä 10 .íâ 96 16:25
 To   : Longhair
 Subj : elfquest
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
---<<*<<< Longhair dazzled Jhereg with these words of wisdom!! >>>**>>----

 BPL> I was a big elfquest fan in the early '80s, though I haven't seen
 BPL> much of it recently.

 Lo> You haven't been spending enough time in a comics shop. :> There
 Lo> are now several regular monthly or bi-monthly titles. You've got your

 Lo> EQ - Shards (following Cutter, Rayek, Treestump, Strongbow... in their
 Lo> fight to reclaim the palace pieces) - Hidden Years (following
 Lo> Ember, Leetah, Skywise,.... as they preserve the Way by having set up
 Lo> far far away from the Shards group) - New Blood (about to be
 Lo> canceled. Followed Dart, Suntop, Wing....as they went up against some
 Lo> humans and a Messiah-complexed Door) - Blood of Ten Chiefs (tales
 Lo> from the past.) - "Jink" and "Rebels", both set far far in the
 Lo> future. Better than I expected them to be. - also a Kahvi and
 Lo> Two-Spear limited series running.

 Lo> There's more EQ out there now then there ever has been. Enjoy.

 Like Barton, wasn't aware there was this much still out here in this
 day and age. Is this all drawn and written by the Pini's or are they
 done by other folks.

 -=*< Jhereg >*=-


--- GEcho 1.00
 * Origin: From Trekkies & from B5ers who hate Trek save us! (1:271/285.0)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 122 of 225
 From : Earl Green                          1:3822/1        .åò 11 .íâ 96 22:30
 To   : All
 Subj : Megaspoiler - EXOGENESIS
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
  Any reproduction or rebroadcast of the following Nifty 3-D Spoiler
   Warning without the express written consent of Earl Green and the
     commissioner of Major League Baseball is strictly prohibited.

            \                      \
      \     \
      \   \\\       \        \     \    \            \        \
       \        \\\  \   \\\  \    \    \        \\\  \   \\\  \
        \       \    \   \    \    \    \        \    \   \    \
         \      \    \   \    \    \    \             \   \    \
          \         \    \    \    \    \        \\\\\\       \\
           \    \\\\     \    \    \    \        \        \  \\
            \   \        \    \    \    \        \        \   \
      \     \   \        \    \    \    \        \        \    \
            \   \            \      \        \        \   \    \
    \\\\\\\\\  \\        \\\\\    \\\   \\\\\\   \\\\\\  \\   \\

   \     \     \             BABYLON 5 - "Exogenesis"
   \     \     \
   \     \     \       \        \        \     \        \         \
   \     \     \   \\\  \   \\\  \   \\\  \    \    \\\  \   \\\\  \
   \     \     \  \\    \   \    \   \    \    \    \    \   \     \
    \    \     \        \   \    \   \    \    \    \    \   \     \
    \     \    \   \\\  \       \\   \    \    \    \    \   \     \
              \\   \    \   \  \\    \    \    \    \    \         \
             \\    \    \   \   \    \    \    \    \    \   \\\\  \
       \    \\     \    \   \    \   \    \    \    \    \      \  \
      \\   \\          \\   \    \   \    \     \   \    \        \\
     \\   \\       \\\\\   \\   \\  \\   \\   \\\  \\   \\   \\\\\\

 \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\

The following is the official Warner Bros. synopsis distributed to PTEN
affiliate stations.  Be warned, it will completely and utterly SPOIL the
ENTIRE episode for you.

Sheridan instructs Ivanova to set up a private meeting with the newly
promoted Lt. Corwin to discovered whether he can help their cause.
Corwin misinterprets her intentions, believing Ivanova is asking him out
on a date.  When the two finally meet, Ivanova discovers Corwin would
not be an ally of the Rangers because of his claim that he would not act
against any orders sent by Earthdome.
   Marcus gets word form one of his informants that the Rangers should
go on a heightened state of alert and pull back from Earth space due to
a gathering of Shadow vessels on the edge of Centauri space.  Marcus
guives instructions to drop a long-ranger scanner in the area of the
build-up.  Meanwhile, Dr. Franklin is baffled upon the discovery of
several people who have died as the result of a small, unknown alien
parasite which lodges itself onto the spinal cord of its victims.
   When Samuel (Eric Steinberg) and Duncan (Aubrey Morris), several of
Marcus's liaisons, disappeared, Franklin and Marcus go to their
downbelow quarters to investigate.  They are surprised to find several
lurkers, including Samuel and Duncan, armed and an unconscious man on
the floor.  Being held captive for their accidental discovery, Franklin
and Marcus learn that the parasite is a way of serving a race known as
the Vindrizi, and by voluntarily accepting the parasite, the person is
actually merging with their race.  For some, like Duncan, it improves
their health; however, for those whose bodies reject it, it's lethal.
   The Bindrizi seek out those who have nothing to look forward to,
namely Lurkers, and give them the gift of life.  By accepting the
parasite, their host bodies are instilled with vast memories of all that
has been seen and touched.  Their mission is to preserve all of these
memories until the inevitable day when all life and knowledge falls into
a new dark age, then all will turn to them and they will be keepers of
the past.
   After Marcus confesses his fondness for Ivanova to Franklin, Samuel
and Duncan take Franklin to a room where a lurker is ill with the
parasite in his spine.  Franklin is ordered to heal him, but he claims
he cannot without the proper medical equipment.  Left alone and fearing
danger, Marcus convinces one of his capturers that his pike is actually
a medical scanner which might be useful to Franklin.  When he talks his
capturer into looking through the pike, the man unknowingly arms it and
knocks himself out.  Then Marcus signals Garibaldi in Franklin's link,
and Garibaldi sends several guards to their aid.  Marcus then finds his
way into the room where Franklin is being held, and together they subdue
their capturers.
   Seeing no other choice and knowing it can never be reattached, Duncan
pulls out the parasite as a show of loyalty, and to convince Franklin in
his belief in the Vindrizi cause.  A convinced Franklin ultimately
accepts the methods and principles employed by the Vindrizi, and
promises to keep them secret, but only under his direct supervision.
Relegated back to what he believe to be his life without purpose, Duncan
leaves Babylon 5.
   Also starring James Warwick as Matthew Duffin, Wiley Small as Jacque
Lee, Kathryn Cressida as Kat, Carrie Dobro as Dr. Harrison and Roger
Rook as Lurker.
       e  <-- Earl Green (earl.green@f1.n3822.z1.fidonet.org) 1:3822/1
       Graphics & animation artist, KPBI Fox 46/15 and KFDF UPN 32/36
       LogBook, LogBook Master Index, LogBook Online Newsletter Editor
---
 * SLMR 2.0 * Grant her secret wishes, 5 satellites in just one night.

--- QScan/PCB v1.17b / 01-0162
 * Origin: Jackalope Junction 501-785-5381 Ft Smith AR (1:3822/1)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 123 of 225
 From : Earl Green                          1:3822/1        .åò 11 .íâ 96 22:30
 To   : All
 Subj : Megaspoiler: MESSAGES...
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
   /                                       /
 /                                        /           "Messages
/   //////////          BABYLON 5         /          from Earth"
/            ///                          //
/                                          ///
//                /             /          /    /     /        /
 ///              /   ////     /   ///     /    /    /   //    /   /////
   //////         /      /    /       /    /    /    /         /       /
        //////    /      /    /       /    /    /    /   ////  /       /
             /    /        /  /       /    /    /    //        /         /
/            /    /   ////    /       /    /    /     ///////  /   ////
//                /           //     /     /    //            /       //
 ///          /   /            //          /     //         /          //
   ///////////    ///           ///////    ///    ///////// /////       ///

/            /     /            /                  /     /           /
/            /     //////      /                  /     /   ///     /   //
/            /           /    /   ///////         /     /     /    /      /
/            /           /    /       /           //    /     /    /      /
/            /      /         /      /             //   /     /    //     /
/            /     /   ///    /     /   ///////    /    /     /     //
/       /    /     /     /    /     /         /    /    /     /      //////
//     /    /      /     /    /     /         /    /    /     /           /
 //                //         /     /         /    /    /     /           /
  //     /          ///////   ///   /         /    /    /     /         /
   //     /                         /         /    /    /     /    /
    //    /                         ///       ///  ///  ///   ///  ///////
     //   /                                                              eg

Be VERY cautious - reading the following will spoil the ENTIRE EPISODE
for you.  This is Warner Bros.' official press release sent to PTEN
affiliate stations.

Senate hearing continue on Earth investigating claims that President
Clark faked an illness which prevented him from boarding Earthforce One
when it exploded, killing President Santiago.  Representatives from
Clark dismiss the allegations as attempts to destabilize the government.
   Marcus rescues Dr. Mary Kirkish (Nancy Stafford) from a group of
assailants attempting to subdue her.  Regaining consciousness, Dr.
Kirkish explains to Sheridan, Ivaniva, Delenn, Marcus, Franklin, Lennier
and Garibaldi that her life is in danger because of information she
knows.  While stationed on Mars conducting an archaeological dig, she
discovered a Shadow ship buried 300 feet below the surface, and
witnessed one of the workers die instantly after touching the ship with
his bare hand.  Following orders to stop digging, Dr. Kirkish recalls
the arrival of a second Shadow ship, which had come to dig out the
discovered vessel.  Threatened by Earth to keep the incident secret, she
and the other archaeologists were assigned by Earth to different worlds
to ensure that nobody spoke to one another.  Garibaldi, who was
stationed on Mars at roughly the same time, confirms that he also
witnessed several unknown alien ships.
   Recently called into a new dig because another Shadow ship was
discovered on Ganymede, Dr. Kirkish uncovers secret government plans to
bring the ship to Earth in 72 hours to study its secrets and learn how
to use it - against other races or fellow Earth inhabitants if
necessary.  Realizing the danger surrounding Dr. Kirkish, Delenn makes
plans to gether into Minbari space for protection.
   Officials begin to covertly search out those with information.  Night
Watch Security suspects the captain and several crew members of having
their own agend, and instruct Zack Allan to confront Sheridan.
   Sheridan makes the decision to try to prevent Earth from getting
their hands on the Shadow ship.  Along with Delenn, he commands the
Minbari ship White Star into Earth-controlled space with the intentions
of finding and destroying the vessel before it leaves Ganymede.  When
the White Star emerges from its jump point, it sets of all long-range
scanners, sending a Shadow ship on the attack.  The White Star fires
upon it, causing little damage.  Captain Sheridan orders the ship to go
inside the thick atmosphere of nearby Jupiter, hoping the extreme
atmosphere and gravity will help destroy the Shadow vessel.  Venturing
depeer into space, the White Star's outer hull begins to buckle, but not
before the Shadow implodes from the severe gravitational pull.
   Attempting to get out of the atmosphere, they encounter the destroyer
Agamemnon, which instructs the White Star to surrender.  Knowing they
will be blamed for the attack, Sheridan finds himself in a dilemma -
fire upon his old ship or surrender.  Left with little choice, he
decides to take a chance and opens up a jump gate inside the atmosphere,
something never done before, and successfully makes it back to Babylon
5.
   President Clark signs a decree declaring martial law throughout Earth
Central, citing threats to planetary security.
       e  <-- Earl Green (earl.green@f1.n3822.z1.fidonet.org) 1:3822/1
       Graphics & animation artist, KPBI Fox 46/15 and KFDF UPN 32/36
       LogBook, LogBook Master Index, LogBook Online Newsletter Editor
---
 * SLMR 2.0 * The eyes of everyone will look right through your scene.

--- QScan/PCB v1.17b / 01-0162
 * Origin: Jackalope Junction 501-785-5381 Ft Smith AR (1:3822/1)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 124 of 225
 From : Brion Lienhart                      1:213/700.2     .òp 09 .íâ 96 14:02
 To   : Longhair
 Subj : elfquest
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On Thu Jan 04, Longhair said to Steve Thomas:

 ST> Any Elfquest fans on here?

 -L>   Yeh here ya go. <Two-Spear is Kavi's father?? did I miss a page?>

That was a new one on me as well. Oh yeah, I'm an EQ fan, I've got all of the
original series. Have you figured out the Treasure Quest yet? I haven't been by
the comic book store to pick up the last two issues, I'll probably be too late.




--- QM v1.31
 * Origin: Ministry of Peace - Carson City, NV (1:213/700.2)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 125 of 225
 From : STEPHEN ADAMS                       1:377/77        .pä 10 .íâ 96 16:50
 To   : NICOLE WILSON
 Subj : NOWHERE MAN
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE 1.2

NW> RL>4.  What role, if any has his wife played in this conspiracy. I.E. do
NW> RL>    you get the impression she is some innocent victim too or is she
NW> RL>    part of the process of "taking out" Tom Veil?

NW> Sometimes I think she has a part in this, but mostly I think she's
NW> innocent. She played along once, when he was in the institution, she
NW> said that she thought it would help him get out.

Nicole,

It's been established in an episode I saw before Christmas, that Tom's
wife and mother are in on the Conspiracy. I don't remember the name of
the episode (I always seem to miss the first couple of minutes of ALL TV
shows!). Since I don't know if you've seen the episode, I won't get
into details here -- wouldn't want to spoil it for 'ya on the reruns.
:)

Regards,

Steve Adams
Internet:  stephen.adams@bandit-bbs.com
January 10, 1996   16:54
---
 * RM 1.3  * Eval Day 35 *

---  WC!/IM!/GE-PRO1.20!
 * Origin: Longbow BBS! Tampa, FL (813)961-3653 USR V.34+ DS (1:377/77)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 126 of 225
 From : STEPHEN ADAMS                       1:377/77        .pä 10 .íâ 96 16:37
 To   : ROBERT LIDGREN
 Subj : NOWHERE MAN
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE 1.2

RL> I would appreciate further discussion here about Tom Veil and his
RL> predicament in the series - I think we just might have a "sleeper"
RL> here which could become much more successful with greater fan
RL> attention.

Robert,

I have been watching "Nowhere Man" since the very beginning. I
absolutely LOVE this show!

My father started watching the series with me when it first came on, but
he soon dropped away because it was "too cerebral" for him. He really
didn't understand the arc of the series.  Any sub-plots, twists, turns,
or continuity items had to be explained to him about three times before
he showed any signs of recognition. I know a few people who WON'T watch
the show because it makes them feel uneasy; like they see too much of
themselves in the Tom Veil character!

Personally, I hope the the producers DON'T change the show to make it
more appealing to the mass market. I think that it would lessen the
quality of the arc, probably making the Tom Veil character look really
ridiculous in the process.

Regards,

Steve Adams
Internet:  stephen.adams@bandit-bbs.com
January 10, 1996   16:48
---
 * RM 1.3  * Eval Day 35 *

---  WC!/IM!/GE-PRO1.20!
 * Origin: Longbow BBS! Tampa, FL (813)961-3653 USR V.34+ DS (1:377/77)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 127 of 225
 From : STEPHEN ADAMS                       1:377/77        .pä 10 .íâ 96 16:55
 To   : CHRIS OGNIBEN
 Subj : ST VOYAGER
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE 1.2

CO> I think people that are trek fans, should stop complaining about the
CO> technobabble.  And have gripe with everything you see.  It is pretty

Chris,

Then I wouldn't advise you to visit any of the Star Trek echoes
elsewhere in FIDONet. They are just chocked full of technobabble
gripes!  :)

In all seriousness, any science fiction work is going to have its share
of fans who raise the "what if..." questions. It's natural. With respect
to Star Trek, the original series (Kirk, Spock, etc.) was written
without any explanations of the "Treknology" because it could be twisted
slightly in order to fit the plans of the story line. No big deal; the
technobabble was purposely left vague for that reason.

However, the new series of Star Trek (TNG, DS9, and Voyager) are written
under a different set of guidelines, which states that writers of the
episodes TRY to adhere to a "technical manual." In effect, the
"treknology" can no longer be twisted to fit whatever the story line
calls for. As such, there are fans who delight in picking up these
inconsistencies when they do emerge, and debate them to death!  :)

I agree with you, the debates and gripes about the technical aspects of
Star Trek should not take place. But then again, most of the episodes of
Star Trek are pretty lame when it comes to character developments and
interactions, so all that's left to debate or discuss is the
"treknology."  :)

Regards,

Steve Adams
Internet:  stephen.adams@bandit-bbs.com
January 10, 1996   17:06




---
 * RM 1.3  * Eval Day 35 *

---  WC!/IM!/GE-PRO1.20!
 * Origin: Longbow BBS! Tampa, FL (813)961-3653 USR V.34+ DS (1:377/77)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 128 of 225
 From : Chris Ogniben                       1:2604/568      .pä 10 .íâ 96 11:59
 To   : Eric Reinholt
 Subj : Star Trek
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

  I dunno man, i have to think about it.  And by the way, how are you
able to spend so much time here and other places, that i see your name.
 You should try jungle, and get hooked up to the star trek majornet
forum, since i really do a lot of posting and replying in there.  But,
that is your choice.  Ummm, i just wonder how you get to spend so much
time everywhere, since i see your name a lot.  The only other time i
don't see your name, is when all the places are dead, and your  name is
just not around, indicating you havn't been near your computer for
quite a long time.


--- WM v3.11/93-0947
 * Origin: Waterside BBS - NJ - (201) 641-5375 28.8k  (1:2604/568)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 129 of 225
 From : Chris Ogniben                       1:2604/568      .pä 10 .íâ 96 12:00
 To   : All
 Subj : dead games
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

  Hey is anyone watching Dead Games in here, and if your a fan, and
seen all the new episodes till now.  Let's hook up in here and start
talking about it.


--- WM v3.11/93-0947
 * Origin: Waterside BBS - NJ - (201) 641-5375 28.8k  (1:2604/568)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 130 of 225
 From : Phill Ash                           1:275/160       .åò 11 .íâ 96 06:51
 To   : David Johnston
 Subj : Nuclear
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE 1.11+

 ->       humanity (as a whole) is slowly becoming stupider and weaker.

 DJ> Nope.  Merely more adapted to it's present environment.

        er...
        The most common human mutation over the past 30 or so years has
        not been very beneficial to the specie as a whole.

                It's called "cancer"


Your pal:  PhlAsh
... I am gripped by what I cannot tell. Have I slipped or have I merely fell
---
 * Ùystertags v1.1 *
~~~ ReneWave v1.01 [NR]
--- Smile :)
 * Origin: * The Beast's Lair * (804)498-3070 * Va Beach VA * (1:275/160)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 131 of 225
 From : Phill Ash                           1:275/160       .åò 11 .íâ 96 06:51
 To   : Bianca Wesslak
 Subj : nuclear
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE 1.11+
From astride a Pale Horse, ùANATúô heard...

 PA> From astride a Pale Horse, iANATjd heard...

 BW> cool header.  there has to be a story in that somewhere.

        Hmmm.... The High-ASCII must not be translating.  It's supposed
        to be the Greek spelling of "Thanatos", but the theta, omega and
        sigma aren't coming across...

 PA> Honestly speaking, (and think this one *all the way* through)
 PA> what would you do if, when you woke up in the morning, there
 PA> was no electricity - anywhere in the world?
 BW> To be honest, no idea.  buy a lot of candles, then again no
 BW> electricity I'd be out of a job.  Hope someone would teach me how to
 BW> hunt, probably go to a reservation and beg and plead for some lessons.

        Well, realistically speaking, you'd probably run out of
        ammunition before the looters finish ransacking your pantry...


Your pal:  PhlAsh
... As if by call or schedule, resume through the morning tide
---
 * Ùystertags v1.1 *
~~~ ReneWave v1.01 [NR]
--- Smile :)
 * Origin: * The Beast's Lair * (804)498-3070 * Va Beach VA * (1:275/160)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 132 of 225
 From : Phill Ash                           1:275/160       .åò 11 .íâ 96 06:51
 To   : Frank Glover
 Subj : nuclear
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE 1.11+

 FG> Along that line, (understand that I haven't read it yet, just
 FG> skimmed in a bookstore) Kevin Anderson and Doug Beason have a new
 FG> novel  involving a not-fully-tested oil-eating microbe for cleaning up
 FG> spills.  Turns out the bug is hardier and better able to survive in
 FG> nature than  expected, spreads, and begins to destroy *all* petroleum
 FG> (and, I  *think* some petroleum derived products) it ends up in. You
 FG> can imagine  results similar to your scenario.

        Geez!
        THat was done in a Destroyer book in the early '80s!


Your pal:  PhlAsh
---
 þ Ùystertags v1.1 þ Your green tree mantle from which these things derive
~~~ ReneWave v1.01 [NR]
--- Smile :)
 * Origin: * The Beast's Lair * (804)498-3070 * Va Beach VA * (1:275/160)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 133 of 225
 From : Tisha Mcgary                        1:350/33        .òp 09 .íâ 96 18:03
 To   : Frank Glover
 Subj : Re: Startrek Voyager
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 FG>    I don't think they were ever specific. Either that,
 FG> or they made up a tribe. Maybe someone else here knows
 FG> better.
 FG>


        I KNOW they've never mentioned it.  I have re-watched episodes 1 thru
14.  I was just hoping I could contact one of those dedicated Trekers who have
books and logs and scripts and inside info...probably even the producers phone
number... to help me on this one.
        Thanks for the reply tho, It's good to see someone listening.

Tisha



--- Maximus 2.02
 * Origin: The PYRAMID bbs (1:350/33)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 134 of 225
 From : ROBERT LIDGREN                      1:134/10        .òp 09 .íâ 96 17:26
 To   : J.T. SMITH
 Subj : VIRTUAL SEX
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
-> Well, I can think of instances where it wouldn't be such a bad thing.
-> I mean, there are people that I wouldn't mind sleeping with, but if I
-> did, me fiance would kill me.  OTOH, in the virtual realm, ye could
-> experiment and nae anyone would get hurt.  Only an idea.  (Besides,
-> in the same vein, ye could possibly experiment with ideas that ye've
-> always wanted to try but are socially unacceptable.  In this realm,
-> what other people don't know canna hurt ye.)

Well put but I'm not really interested in virtual sex.  The real thing
is better INMHO.  I'm not interested in Virtual Ebola Viri either - nor
the real kind either.  I do think virtual TRAVEL would be really nifty
though.  I'd love to take a trip on the Space Shuttle and the virtusal
form might be neat.  I'd also like to rappel down the side of the
Matterhorn, shoot the rapids of the Colorado River and dive down into an
active volcano - all neat virtual experiences.  Somehow a virtual "kiss"
would lose much in translation - same as a virtual hug.  However, for
the permanently disabled I can see good reasons for further exploration!

Cheers and thanks for sending me your message.  I enjoyed your ideas.

-Rob
--- PCBoard 15.2
 * Origin: 32 lines 40 Gig BBS, Realtime InterNet SLIP (403)299-9900 (1:134/10)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 135 of 225
 From : Don Dellmann                        1:154/40        .ÿò 12 .íâ 96 05:14
 To   : Bianca Wesslak
 Subj : nuclear BS
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
While tripping merrily through the mail, Bianca Wesslak was overheard

 DD> control it, and the methods they use are criminal, in fact felonious,
 DD> by the laws of every civilized nation in the world.
 BW> I cannot and will not believe such a statement.  Do they attack you?
 BW> Who are most of their attacks aimed at, If I am not mistaken, they
 BW> are aimed at corporations.  As for their methods, in a weird way I
 BW> kinda agree with them.  Those trees and plants out there are
 BW> beautiful entities. They need to be protected.

Spiking a tree so the logger is badly injured when he hits it with his
chainsaw is not striking against a corporation, it's a felonius attack on
an individual.  Destroying the livlihood of an entire state is not an
attack against a corporation, it's an assault on PEOPLE.

The loggers are doing more to protect the forests with selective cutting
and replanting than they are "destroying" them.  Because of the efforts
of the logging companies, there are more acres of forest in the US today
than there were when Columbus arrived (according to the US Forest Service).

 BW> maybe put some turbines floating in the gulf stream or something, the
 BW> force of ocean currents could maybe turn those things.  It would have
 BW> to be safe guarded against, and safe guarded for the animals currently
 BW> still able to live in the worlds oceans.

There are environmentally safe ways to generate electricity, they're just not
economically feasible.  Nuclear is the cleanest and safest technology we have
available today that can be deployed on a large enough scale to meet our
energy needs.

 BW> believe in the old ways would.  Chief seattle would.  I'm pretty sure
 BW> they're are other ecclectic people,  especially the native tribal
 BW> people who still utilize their old ways.

The "native Americans" had a whole continent, one of the richest in the world
in natural resources, and they didn't do anything with it.

Good stewardship of resources means using them, and exploiting them wisely.
Allowing the land to "lie fallow" and run wild is NOT good stewardship.

Don

... Exercise your right to arm and keep bears!
---
 * Origin: Anonymous BBS -=- Non plus Ultra -=- 414-251-2580 (1:154/40)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 136 of 225
 From : Denis Lamy                          1:167/420       .îí 08 .íâ 96 08:21
 To   : Trevor Pack
 Subj : X-files
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
<** Le 06-Jan-96, TREVOR PACK disait Å ALL: **>

TP> Did anybody see the one on killer cockroaches? Want to talk about it.

Let's just say that Bambi made quite an impression on Scully that made her
show some feeling for Mulder.


Au plaisir de vous lire,

Denis Lamy
Trois-Rivieres (Quebec, Canada)
~~~
 * VbReader 3.0 #67 * Un Trou Noir, c'est la ou Dieu divisa par "0"...
--- FidoPCB v1.5 beta-'e'
 * Origin: Innovatron, St-Boniface, QC (819)535-9072 (1:167/420)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 137 of 225
 From : Nicolai Shapero                     1:102/524       .åò 11 .íâ 96 06:43
 To   : Chris Thurman
 Subj : Science Fiction
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Jan 09 13:38>, Chris Thurman (1:141/415) wrote to All Girls:

 CT>If any girls are looking for a guy who like science fiction then
 CT>call on your phone, not the modem, ***-**** and ask for Mike.  He

Ahem.  This is not the international date conference.  This is the SFFAN
conference.  And while it has been said that "anything that two fen do is
fanac", I do believe that you are pushing the envelope more than a trifle.

Please restrict such postings to other conferences.

Thank you for your cooperation,

-- Nicolai Shapero, Moderator of the SFFAN echo

--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 138 of 225
 From : Nicolai Shapero                     1:102/524       .åò 11 .íâ 96 06:46
 To   : Chip Griffin
 Subj : Re: nuclear
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Jan 08 13:51>, Chip Griffin (1:320/301) wrote to The Raven:

 CG>then that!  Besides, on the scale necessary to be useful you
 CG>would need to
 CG>make MEGAWATTS of power and beam it through the atmostphere ...
 CG>what about
 CG>airplanes?  What if one should pass through that airspace?  What
 CG>about
 CG>lifeforms (ie birds)?  We're talking crispy critters here!

No, you are not talking about crispy critters.  Broadcast power has already been
tested (JPL, quite a few years ago).  The beam is spread out enough that there's
not a serious problem with birds, animals or planes.

-- Nicolai Shapero, the Mad Russian Sysop of StormGate Aerie

--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 139 of 225
 From : Nicolai Shapero                     1:102/524       .åò 11 .íâ 96 06:54
 To   : Chip Griffin
 Subj : Re: NUCLEAR paradox?
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Jan 08 14:07>, Chip Griffin (1:320/301) wrote to Chris Baugh:

CB> Fusion is much less safe than fusion?

 CG>Ooops.  Fusion is MUCH less safe than FISSION (at least with what
 CG>we know
 CG>today).

Since we haven't GOT controlled fusion yet, we really don't know enough to judge
which would be really safer.  The long term unpleasant effects of using fusion
might be fewer than fission (less waste, potentially).

-- Nicolai Shapero, the Mad Russian Sysop of StormGate Aerie

--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 140 of 225
 From : Nicolai Shapero                     1:102/524       .åò 11 .íâ 96 06:56
 To   : Chip Griffin
 Subj : Re: nuclear BS
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Jan 08 14:33>, Chip Griffin (1:320/301) wrote to Bianca Wesslak:

 CG>Gamma is a particle wave similar to light (but higher energy and
 CG>different
 CG>wave length).  Your microwave emits these to cook your food.

I thought that microwaves used a somewhat different range of the electromagnetic
spectrum.  As in, radio band?

-- Nicolai Shapero, the Mad Russian Sysop of StormGate Aerie

--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 141 of 225
 From : Nicolai Shapero                     1:102/524       .åò 11 .íâ 96 06:53
 To   : Chip Griffin
 Subj : Re: NUCLEAR
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Jan 08 15:05>, Chip Griffin (1:320/301) wrote to The Raven:

 CG>waste?  How many solar panels?  With how much land taken?  How

Another factor to consider on solar panels. Manufacturing those toys is not
free...it costs materials AND ENERGY.  What is the "break even" point on a
panel, wrt energy expenditure?

-- Nicolai Shapero, the Mad Russian Sysop of StormGate Aerie

--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 142 of 225
 From : Kay Shapero                         1:102/524       .åò 11 .íâ 96 10:51
 To   : Chip Griffin
 Subj : Re: nuclear BS
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Jan 08 14:42>, Chip Griffin (1:320/301) wrote to The Raven:

TR> very simple. Reactor cores don't explode.  Period.  They can have a
TR> catastrophic meltdown, they can have radioactive coolant leaks, but

they do

TR> not go up in a cascade of nuclear fire a'la a nuclear bomb.  They

*can't*.

 CG>Actually I can think of one example where you are wrong, and

 CG>days) too fast or something and had a "steam explosion".  All

How's that a counter example?  Your very post indicates that you know the
difference between a steam explosion (which is mechanical in nature and can
happen in just about any kind of power plant that uses hot water) and a nuclear
explosion, which is what the Raven appears to have been talking about.

--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 143 of 225
 From : Frank Glover                        1:2613/477      .åò 11 .íâ 96 22:09
 To   : Bianca Wesslak
 Subj : Re: nuclear BS
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

BW>   BW>   TR> Who?  Greenpeace?  ROFL!  I worked for them for a while,
BW>  until I
BW>
BW>   FG> ROFL: a common electronic message expression meaning `Rolling On
BW>   FG> the
BW>  Floor, Laughing.'
BW>   When it was first posted I thought it was an acronym for something?

   And so it is. It's just not an organization. (Watch for the list of acronyms
to be posted here now and then. Most of it is primairily SF oriented, some are
general net expressions.)

BW>   FG> Also, Coal burning can add to global warming, and leaves a
BW>  mildly
BW>   did I say I was for coal burning?  I don't remember typing anything
BW>  for it?

   You didn't. I was making the point that even non-nuclear sources of energy
all have their drawbacks and hazards.

BW>  toxic ash to be disposed of. Hydroelectric means flooding a valley
BW>   FG>
BW>  somewhere. (and what if it breaks?)
BW>   Not all the time, Niagra falls isn't flooding a valley.  That's why
BW>  I said
BW>   niagra.  I was meaning hydroelectric via river falls.

   But most hydropower does come from dams. There aren't that many useable
waterfalls. (It would even be possible to use *all* the water flowing down the
Niagara River for hydropower, but that would destroy the scenic/tourist value of
the falls. More is diverted in winter than summer when it's less noticable. I
know whereof I speak. I'm 90 miles from it, and go there at least once a year
for the Contradiction SF convention, and other reasons. Rochester also has
limited hydropower of its own, plus coal and nuclear generation.)

BW>   I like solar photovoltaic
BW>   FG> systema,
BW>  but I know some pretty nasty stuff (like arsenic) is
BW>   FG> involved in its
BW>  production.
BW>   that's is one of it's bad sides granted but I like it a lot better
BW>  than
BW>   a lot of current methods.

  So do I, but again it does involve hazardous materials in its production
(Which can be dangerous *forever.* Even plutonium *eventually* decays into
something less dangerous.) And has limited use in areas like mine where there's
a greater likelyhood of cloud cover, than, say, Arizona.)

   Again, nothing is perfectly safe. And some risks are more subtle (or
unconsciously accepted) than others. I don't dwell on the fact that my car
carries enough gasoline to turn me into toast, I just drive carefully....

   Frank


--- QuickBBS 2.80 GoldBase (Zeta-1)
 * Origin: The Matrix Data Bank BBS, Rochester, Ny (1:2613/477)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 144 of 225
 From : Frank Glover                        1:2613/477      .åò 11 .íâ 96 22:30
 To   : Chris Thurman
 Subj : Re: Science Fiction
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

CT>  If any girls are looking for a guy who like science fiction then call
CT>  on your phone, not the modem, 386-0660 and ask for Mike.  He is an

   I'm not planning to call the guy (who may not want his number plastered on an
international Fidonet echo anyway), but you realize you didn't supply an area
code...?

   Frank


--- QuickBBS 2.80 GoldBase (Zeta-1)
 * Origin: The Matrix Data Bank BBS, Rochester, Ny (1:2613/477)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 145 of 225
 From : Frank Glover                        1:2613/477      .åò 11 .íâ 96 22:40
 To   : Mark Jones
 Subj : Re: VIRTUAL SEX
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

MJ>  fiancee might be just as angry about your virtual infidelities as
MJ>  she'd be about a flesh-and-blood tryst.  Possibly more so--she
MJ>  probably can safely assume that no matter how much you drool over
MJ>  [insert starlet of your choice here], the chances of your actually
MJ>  sleeping with her in reality are pretty slim.  If she's available on
MJ>  a
MJ>  $19.95 rental disk, though....

   You know, we've seen plenty of hints of this in Star Trek's
holodecks/holosuites. Remember the attempt to do an unauthorized scan of Major
Kira so as to incorporate her into a scenario for one of Quark's customers? Or
when that warpdrive engineer learned that Geordi had used a construct of her to
help solve a previous problem (and she jumped to the wrong conclusion as to just
what the problem was?).

  Or a remark in anger from Wesley; "At least I don't have to get my women in
the holodeck!" And there's Barclay's former addiction....

   Me, I can see it now; "Computer, run program `Madonna1, version 3."

   Frank


--- QuickBBS 2.80 GoldBase (Zeta-1)
 * Origin: The Matrix Data Bank BBS, Rochester, Ny (1:2613/477)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 146 of 225
 From : Frank Glover                        1:2613/477      .åò 11 .íâ 96 22:42
 To   : Mark Jones
 Subj : Re: Nuclear
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

MJ>  the planet with better-suited descendents.  (I don't know about
MJ>  anyone
MJ>  else, but *I* need glasses.  And I'd be dead if not for the existence

   Ever seen the Twilight Zone episode with Burgess Merideth as a man who simply
wished to be left alone to read? Then he finds himself the only survivor of a
nuclear attack, but the libraries are intact?

   Then he breaks his glasses....?

   Frank


--- QuickBBS 2.80 GoldBase (Zeta-1)
 * Origin: The Matrix Data Bank BBS, Rochester, Ny (1:2613/477)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 147 of 225
 From : Ken Mayes                           1:393/7         .ÿò 12 .íâ 96 07:35
 To   : All
 Subj : Re: nuclear BS
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
        To me one of the greatest dangers of nuclear power is over dependence on
it. We already rely far too heavily on it.

        The law of averages say that eventually there will be a major accident
here in the U.S. Not like the little one at TMI, but a big Chernobyl style
release of radiation. A full meltdown...not a partial melt down but a full blown
explosion destroying the containment building and many others around it. When
that happens, public opinion will turn so far against nuclear. People that now
don't give a hoot one way or the other will become rabidly anti-nuclear once the
full impact of such an event hits their pocket book. I'm talking the expenses of
relocating millions of people, refugee camps, the resultant economic collapse
and the geniune fear of the unknown which will pervade the populace.
        Protests at nuclear plants jumped after TMI. After an event of this
magnitude...and again the law of averages dictate that one will eventually
happen...many plants will literally be stormed and workers killed by angry mobs.
No senator or representative in his or her right mind will publicly advocate
nuclear power in such a public opinion enviroment. The government will be forced
to either shut down the nuclear industry or face a possible revolt. Guess which
they'll choose. That's when the over-dependence will come into play. Shut those
reactors down and you shut down the economy. We're talking major economic
depression here. Mark my words. One major accident...kiss our way of life
goodbye. The US will be lucky to emerge at the the level of a third world
nation.



Just my thoughts on the subject...



--- CNet/3
 * Origin: The Bard's Tavern Denton, TX (817)243-5110 USR 28.8   (1:393/7)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 148 of 225
 From : Jo De Man                           2:291/1102.10   .pä 10 .íâ 96 19:59
 To   : Star Hawk
 Subj : Weber
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Hello Star!

07 Jan 96, Star Hawk writes to Jo De Man:

 [>> Jo De Man [> Heard his next book (inheriters of the empire or
 [>> something like that) is in this series (sounds good)

........

 [>> Jo De Man [> Any idea when it will be out ? (the sooner the
 [>> better)
 SH>      Nope! No idea at all [sorry this is so late, been busy with other
 SH> matters and let my mail pile up].

From what I hear, it'll be out in march (www site baen books).


        Bye ! ,
                Jo
Fidonet         : 2:291/1102.10

... Wie leeft van compileren, sterft van de bugs.
--- FMail/386 1.02
 * Origin: Meulebeest BBS: It's life Jim, but not as we know it (2:291/1102.10)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 149 of 225
 From : Kevin Ahearn                        1:109/104       .ÿò 12 .íâ 96 19:42
 To   : Frank Glover
 Subj : Re: VIRTUAL SEX
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 FG>    Me, I can see it now; "Computer, run program `Madonna1, version 3."

Madonna?  YEEEEEESH.  For your sake, I hope the program crashes...

--Kevin, waiting for "Cameron Diaz 2.1" (version 1 will probably be full of
bugs).

--- Maximus/2 3.01
 * Origin: ShanErin (1:109/104)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 150 of 225
 From : Dennis Rayburn                      1:3664/7        .åò 04 .íâ 96 22:36
 To   : All
 Subj : Open Letter to Trekdom
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12  94-0324
To the national leaders of all Star Trek Organizations, I greet you.

For years, each of our organizations have been in existence, working for
the preservation, enjoyment, and fun of our specific part of Trek
Fandom.

One noticeable thing has been missing over the years:  communications and
cooperation between our respective groups.

Each of you are aware as I am, that there are issues on the horizon that
separately, we would not be heard, but together, in an united front, we
could be a voice for those who would not be heard individually.

Therefore, to open a channel for dialogue between organizations, I want
to personally invite you to meet with me at MidSouth Con in Memphis, TN,
March 22-24.  The purpose of this get together will be to open up
communications and to explore the possible formation of a "Trek Fan
Council".  This council, which would be comprised of one representative
from each organization, would serve as a sort of United Nations, where
all groups would retain their individual identities and freedoms.  The
difference would be that the Council would serve as a combined voice of
fandom in Trek related matters, and as the channel of communications
between our respective groups.

The recent Treaty of Peace between the Romulan Star Empire, the Western
Fleet of Klingon Assault Group, the Klingon Imperial States, and the
United Federation of Planets, Internationale', as well as private
contacts between myself and some of you has shown a clear interest in
this project.

I invite and urge you to join me in Memphis in March, to explore these
opportunities, meet and get to know your counterparts in Trekdom, and
together, let's work for the betterment of Trekdom as a whole.

I realize that some of you may not be able to personally attend.  If
this is the case, please feel free to appoint and send a representative
to the meeting.

If you are interested, please feel free to email me at any of the
addresses below.

In service to Trekdom,

Rev. Dennis Rayburn
President, UFPI

Internet:  phoenix@stinger.com
           q@stinger.com

Snail Mail:  UFPI
             P. O. Box 1515
             Paris, TN 38242
---
 * TLX v3.30 * UFPI Headquarters, Sector 001

--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12
 * Origin: Light and Life BBS - Paris, TN 901-642-3884  (1:3664/7.0)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 151 of 225
 From : Joel Ranger                         1:256/105       .ÿò 12 .íâ 96 19:25
 To   : Robert Lidgren
 Subj : NOWHERE MAN
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
> No, I missed the Stockwell episodes but did read up about them at the
> NOWHERE MAN web site.  I would like to see more of him.  I remember
> him as an actor with great craftsmanship.  He would be a great
> assistance to Tom as he treks across the U.S.  Heck, why not let Tom

If I remember the episode though...Tom turns in Dean at the end, so that
he'll want to go on living

> venture up into my country, Canada - not a bad idea.  And consider
> this:  X-Files is filmed in and around Vancouver, B.C. in Canada and
> Sliders and Highlander has been filmed here as well.

Canada....now there's an idea....maybe "they" wouldn't like stomping
through the deep, frozen wilderness that Canada is <G>....he'd be
perfectly safe up here....

> Once again, it is the writing, the character development and the
> growth, the chalenges, and the evolution of the series which will make
> or break NOWHERE MAN.

I hope it doesn't break it....I am really starting to enjoy it....almost
as much as I enjoyed watching "The Prisoner"...

> BTW:  I think there is a NOWHERE MAN site either on FidoNet or on
> the Internet.  When I track it down again, I'll post a general
> message to "ALL" about it.

If you do find one, let me know....

Thanks!
BCNU!

Joel


... Revenge is best served in microwavable cookware.
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

--- FLAME v1.1
 * Origin: Certa Cito. Lanark County, Ontario. 613-264-8114 (1:256/105)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 152 of 225
 From : Eric Coleman                        1:221/1050      .pä 03 .íâ 96 14:14
 To   : ROBERT LIDGREN
 Subj : Re: Good Ole Riker...
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 RL> He always struck me as an actor who took on his role in STTNG
 RL> with great earnest and a zest for life.  Has anyone seen or heard
 RL> anything else about Frakes?

        He also does a voice for the cartoon Gargoyles.


... If we don't stop censorship now, we're ÛÛÛÛÛked.
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
 * Origin: Five Guys BBS (1:221/1050)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 153 of 225
 From : Donald Sohn                         1:109/369       .óá 13 .íâ 96 00:39
 To   : Denis Lamy
 Subj : X-files
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 DL> <** Le 06-Jan-96, TREVOR PACK disait Å ALL: **>
TP> Did anybody see the one on killer cockroaches?
TP> Want to talk about it.

 DL> Let's just say that Bambi made quite an impression
 DL> on Scully that made her
 DL> show some feeling for Mulder.

She was quite jealous.  Scully IS the only woman in Mulder's life besides his
mother you know.

--- Maximus/2 3.01
 * Origin: UFOria (Clifton, VA) 703-803-6420 (1:109/369)


Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 154 of 225
 From : Mark Jones                          1:105/302.47    .pä 10 .íâ 96 18:13
 To   : Bianca Wesslak
 Subj : nuclear
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On (07 Jan 96) Bianca Wesslak wrote to Phill Ash...

 BW> To be honest, no idea. buy a lot of candles, then again no
 BW> electricity I'd be out of a job. Hope someone would teach me how
 BW> to hunt, probably go to a reservation and beg and plead for some
 BW> lessons. Probably go find cookie a friend of mine with connection
 BW> to some native americans. I would not mind living the lifestyle.
 BW> Oh of course I'd moan and groan for a while but then who
 BW> wouldn't. What bout batteries. why would the electricity be gone?
 BW> Our ancestors did it, I don't see why we couldn't, and by some
 BW> people it is argued that they had more leisure time than we do?

Why would the electricity be gone?  Maybe it just "went away".  (The
novel ARIEL describes such a situation--a very good fantasy story,
too.)

The problem with your plan--learning to hunt and hang out on a
reservation--is that about 200,000,000 other people will be having
much the same idea.  And the land can't possibly support even a tiny
fraction of that many.  Remember--the native american population was
*tiny* compared to what we have today, and they had all of the
completely undeveloped continent to hunt.  Large tracts of the
continent are now buried under concrete or cut up into farmland or
suburbs and thus unsuitable for supporting the game that might support
YOU (and me and everyone else).

It may be that some hunter/gatherer cultures had more leisure time
than we do--and then again, maybe they didn't.  But if they did, it
was because they had very lush, very productive land to forage from.
Most primitives didn't.  That kind of land was limited; most had to
work harder on less fertile lands just to survive.


--- PPoint 1.78
 * Origin: Folcroft Sanitarium (hsmith@cure.com) (1:105/302.47)

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 Msg  : 155 of 225
 From : Mark Jones                          1:105/302.47    .pä 10 .íâ 96 18:20
 To   : Emilio Ares
 Subj : X-files
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On (09 Jan 96) Emilio Ares wrote to Trevor Pack...

 EA> What did you think about the "cockroaches as robot explorers from
 EA> space" theory? A logical and relatively inexpensive method of
 EA> exploration and/or military reconnasaince. What kind of
 EA> impression would we be making if this was a preliminary study
 EA> prior to joining the Galactic Union or something?

Or something.  I just finished DRAKON (the new Draka novel by S. M.
[STEVE] Stirling).  One of the technologies you encounter in this
novel is just that--robot "cockroaches" used for espionage.  When the
Draka and the Samothracians both have four hundred years worth of
nanotech and bio-engineering to work with, the limits are...broad.
The spyroaches are one of the simpler devices employed in the story.


--- PPoint 1.78
 * Origin: Folcroft Sanitarium (hsmith@cure.com) (1:105/302.47)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 156 of 225
 From : Mark Jones                          1:105/302.47    .åò 11 .íâ 96 23:28
 To   : Bianca Wesslak
 Subj : nuclear BS
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On (09 Jan 96) Bianca Wesslak wrote to Don Dellmann...

 DD> Their political agenda is to control our country the way they
 DD> want to control it, and the methods they use are criminal, in
 DD> fact felonious, by the laws of every civilized nation in the
 DD> world.
 BW> I cannot and will not believe such a statement. Do they attack
 BW> you? Who are most of their attacks aimed at, If I am not
 BW> mistaken, they are aimed at corporations.

And since when does committing a felony against a corporation make it
less of a felony?

 BW> That is why I said niagra. Maybe wind is not reliable but it can
 BW> be used in conjunction with geo thermal, solar, and
 BW> hydroelectric. And I am pretty sure there has got to be a way to
 BW> make electric power in which we are so bleeping dependent on in
 BW> conjunction with the enviroment. Going back to the upper
 BW> schematic, when those turbines move, they have in them a magnet
 BW> do they not which when turning makes electricity. I'm sure if we
 BW> had a bunch of people thinking of safe, and enviromentally sound
 BW> ways to make it they could come up with something. I don't know
 BW> maybe put some turbines floating in the gulf stream or something,
 BW> the force of ocean currents could maybe turn those things. It
 BW> would have to be safe guarded against, and safe guarded for the
 BW> animals currently still able to live in the worlds oceans.

We've already put hydroelectric power plants on most of the available
watercourses.  As for wind and solar and geothermal--there simply
isn't ENOUGH of it to power our civilization.  A high-tech
civilization requires vast amounts of energy, and the only available
sources concentrated enough to do the job are fossil fuels and nuclear
power.

 BW> all my major hunting in stores. And if I was to huddle in my cave
 BW> I darn well would use fire, caves are not cold, they have a
 BW> consistent temp, year round. They are also humid and have rock
 BW> and sand and stuff, not easy to have an out of control fire in
 BW> there. I was using fire as a metaphor.

Caves can be *very* cold sometimes.  And ask submariners about the
danger of fire in "nonflammable" areas like steel submarines....


--- PPoint 1.78
 * Origin: Folcroft Sanitarium (hsmith@cure.com) (1:105/302.47)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 157 of 225
 From : ROBERT LIDGREN                      1:134/10        .ÿò 12 .íâ 96 18:46
 To   : STEPHEN ADAMS
 Subj : NOWHERE MAN
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
BRAVO STEPHEN!

I couldn't agree more.  One need not be fed sit-com "PABLUM" all the
time.  Heck, even X-Files makes you "pay-attention!"  I think TV
executives frequently UNDERESTIMATE the intelligence of the public.
Some of us WANT TO BE CHALLENGED.  Some of us want to have to think
about stories and mull them over and, yes, even discuss them for more
than 30 seconds.

Tom Veil is in a situation that evolves and we are not certain just hwat
is coming up mext.  I cannot usually precit just what will happen next
nor what the next episode will entail.  On top of that I LIKE the fact
that it hasn't become a show which is SUPER POPULAR.  When that happens,
it seems to take some of the mystique out of the series (some not all).

Don't worry that you Dad has different tastes.  That's fine too.  Never
put-down others who may not appreciate things you do.  It may be
DISAPPOINTING but it doesn't make others cretins.

For example, I am not a huge SPORTS FAN - never have been. I do watch
the odd NHL hockey game, CFL or NFL football game, some basketball but
hardly any.  I always watch tennis when it comes to Wimbledon and The
U.S. Open.  Moreover, I get a kick out of figure skating.  However,
people do LIVE for sport and that's okay with me.  I just won't stay
inside on Sundays watching back-to-back football.  However, I will watch
X-Files and NOWHERE MAN and some DS9 and Voyager.  I'll even take in
Murphy Brown or Frasier when the mood strikes as well as Seinfeld.
Different tastes for different people and for different times.

My Dad and I used to watch The Prisoner religiously when it was first
broadcast (we got hooked right off).  Ergo, I still like seeing re-runs.

I am always HOPEFUL when new science fiction or fantasy series appear
because I love science fiction and some fantasy and some horror (also
enjoy the odd TALES FROM THE CRYPT episode because of the wit).

Oh well, I could go on but I hear the bandwidth police siren blaring so
I had better sign off.

Cheers,

-Rob
--- PCBoard 15.2
 * Origin: 32 lines 40 Gig BBS, Realtime InterNet SLIP (403)299-9900 (1:134/10)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 158 of 225
 From : Frank Glover                        1:2613/477      .ÿò 12 .íâ 96 22:19
 To   : Nicolai Shapero
 Subj : Re: nuclear BS
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

NS>   CG>Gamma is a particle wave similar to light (but higher energy and
NS>   CG>different
NS>   CG>wave length).  Your microwave emits these to cook your food.
NS>
NS>  I thought that microwaves used a somewhat different range of the
NS>  electromagnetic spectrum.  As in, radio band?

  Quite right. At 2450 Mhz (2.45 Ghz) for most home ovens. To hell and gone from
gamma-ray wavelengths. (Would that we did have a gamma source that could be
turned on and off as easily...but *not* in the average kitchen...!)

   Frank


--- QuickBBS 2.80 GoldBase (Zeta-1)
 * Origin: The Matrix Data Bank BBS, Rochester, Ny (1:2613/477)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 159 of 225
 From : Christian Raven                     1:393/7         .ÿò 12 .íâ 96 21:17
 To   : Mark Jones
 Subj : Re: VIRTUAL SEX
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On Tue  9-Jan-1996 10:48p, Mark Jones said to J.t. Smith:

MJ> On (06 Jan 96) J.T. Smith wrote to ROBERT LIDGREN...

MJ>  JS> Well, I can think of instances where it wouldn't be such a bad
MJ>  JS> thing. I mean, there are people that I wouldn't mind sleeping
MJ>  JS> with, but if I did, me fiance would kill me. OTOH, in the virtual
MJ>  JS> realm, ye could experiment and nae anyone would get hurt. Only an
MJ>  JS> idea. (Besides, in the same vein, ye could possibly experiment
MJ>  JS> with ideas that ye've always wanted to try but are socially
MJ>  JS> unacceptable. In this realm, what other people don't know canna
MJ>  JS> hurt ye.)

MJ>    ...but if virtual sex is indistinguishable from actual sex, your
MJ> fiancee might be just as angry about your virtual infidelities as
MJ> she'd be about a flesh-and-blood tryst.  Possibly more so--she
MJ> probably can safely assume that no matter how much you drool over
MJ> [insert starlet of your choice here], the chances of your actually
MJ> sleeping with her in reality are pretty slim.  If she's available on a
MJ> $19.95 rental disk, though....

MJ>    And if you engage your taste for pain by sadistically tormenting
MJ> virtual victims, are you still twisted psycho?  Is it still a vicious,
MJ> evil thing to do?  Even if nobody is *really* hurt?  Even if you'd
MJ> never, ever do it to a REAL person?
MJ>    I'd say:  yes, it is still sick.  Because you're engaging a taste
MJ> for inflicting misery on others--even if those others don't exist.
MJ>    I'd also defend your right to do it since no *real* person is being
MJ> harmed.  But I wouldn't care to associate with you much.

  On the other hand, I've noticed that alot of men have these "sadistical,
psychotic" desires... perhaps it is simply our society that teaches us that
these are sick.  I'm not going to sit here and seriously condone sexual sadism,
but if it's all part of the male psyche then perhaps crimes could be prevented
through VR sex, eh?
                                            ..ebony
--- CNet/3
 * Origin: The Bard's Tavern Denton, TX (817)243-5110 USR 28.8   (1:393/7)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 160 of 225
 From : Philip Crookes                      2:2433/204      .óá 13 .íâ 96 04:16
 To   : Nicolai Shapero
 Subj : NUCLEAR
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 > Barring a complete collapse of our civilization, I imagine
 > that the purple trefoil will remain a good warning.  If it's

Turkish people, and some Asian societies, shake their heasds when they mean
'yes'

It would not be hard to suppos ethat a purple trefoil could be interpreted as
meaning...

playground
sex parlour
lunch
safety
friends

*Philip*

(not to be interpreted)



--- GEcho 1.00
 * Origin: (2:2433/204)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 161 of 225
 From : Michael Harper                      1:123/10        .åò 11 .íâ 96 11:06
 To   : Tisha Mcgary
 Subj : Earth 2
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 -=> Over coffee and beignets, Tisha Mcgary told Michael Harper all about

  Highlander...

 TM> Am I the only one who was seriously put out by the cancellation of
 TM> that show? I loved it!!!

 It just never did anything for me. There were some good bits, but
 overall the show never caught my interest.


 TM> -!- Maximus 2.02
 TM>  ! Origin: The PYRAMID bbs (1:350/33)




... Don't mind him.  He's from Barcelona.
--- RA/FD/FMail
 * Origin: The Electric Fox - Memphis,TN, U.S.A.  1-901-327-1008 (1:123/10)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 162 of 225
 From : Michael Harper                      1:123/10        .åò 11 .íâ 96 11:06
 To   : Star Hawk
 Subj : Re: B5 -- Coincidence?
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 -=> Over coffee and beignets, Star Hawk told Jeff Hancock all about

  B5 -- Coincidence?...

 SH> I'm at a loss to find any real connection between WoH and B5...
 SH> and i've seen WoH [although not recently].  Without more to go on, i'd
 SH> go with the overactive imagination.

 And considering Joe has never seen any anime, or if he has it didn't
 make any impression on him, the odds of his having pirated scenes from
 WoH are pretty slim... He's pointed out, more than once, that he's
 dealing with universal archetypes here; a lot of the story elements are
 ones that've been around for millenia, from the Homeric hymns to the
 present day. Anyone with sufficient imagination can find anything they
 want in B5, from parallels of the war in Bosnia to, as Joe put it, LORD
 OF THE RINGS with the numbers filed off. But it's all original; Joe
 didn't bust his ass for five years getting this show on the air just to
 do a refitted LotR.


... Drink your coffee! There are poor people in India sleeping.
--- RA/FD/FMail
 * Origin: The Electric Fox - Memphis,TN, U.S.A.  1-901-327-1008 (1:123/10)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 163 of 225
 From : Michael Harper                      1:123/10        .åò 11 .íâ 96 11:06
 To   : Star Hawk
 Subj : MidSouth Con XV
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 -=> Over coffee and beignets, Star Hawk told Darre LuAllen all about

  Khans - Nooga way...

 SH> Then you were around when i was part of the Chattacon board [Head
 SH> Video]; you will likely spot me wandering the dealers' room...
 SH> probably with my laptop in tow.  [Considering the hour this is being
 SH> written, i'm doing good to remember my own name, much less who's
 SH> scheduled for the cons... <g>]

 And if you make it this direction in March, I'll see you at MSC XV.
 Call Greg at (901) 274-7355 for info...


... Newt-changers.  Plagues.  Curses.  My spell check is done.
--- RA/FD/FMail
 * Origin: The Electric Fox - Memphis,TN, U.S.A.  1-901-327-1008 (1:123/10)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 164 of 225
 From : John Mcgill                         1:123/10        .åò 11 .íâ 96 20:25
 To   : Tisha Mcgary
 Subj : Earth2
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 -=> Quoting Tisha Mcgary to Michael Harper <=-

 MH> ... I watched E2
 MH> mostly for him, on those odd occasions when I watched it at all.

 TM> Am I the only one who was seriously put out by the cancellation of
 TM> that show?
 TM> I loved It!!!

Count me in.  I thought Earth2 was one the best shows to hit network
television.  Each week I would travel to a friends house for the sole
purpose of watching the show.  After dinner the world stopped while we
sat glued to the set.

     ----JOHN



... Trekkers work out at the He's Dead Gym.
--- RA/FD/FMail
 * Origin: The Electric Fox - Memphis,TN, U.S.A.  1-901-327-1008 (1:123/10)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 165 of 225
 From : John Mcgill                         1:123/10        .åò 11 .íâ 96 20:25
 To   : Michael Harper
 Subj : tv and sf
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 -=> Quoting Michael Harper to Lawrence E Dunlap <=-

 MH> Exactly. Most of Hollywood despises Chris Columbus, f'rinstance, but
 MH> would never admit it because the guy's a moneymaker. When he starts
 MH> his downhill slide, the backstabbers will appear in droves. I
 MH> personally can't stand the man because I consider him a hack who isn't
 MH> fit to carry the pencil case of a real writer; and yet this yutz is
 MH> responsible for both _Gremlins_ and _Mrs. Doubtfire_, both of which
 MH> were serious cash cows.

Say, isn't this also the same hack who wrote _E.T._?

     ----JOHN




... °°±±²²ÛÛ IN STEREO WHERE AVAILABLE ÛÛ²²±±°°
--- RA/FD/FMail
 * Origin: The Electric Fox - Memphis,TN, U.S.A.  1-901-327-1008 (1:123/10)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 166 of 225
 From : Michael Harper                      1:123/10        .ÿò 12 .íâ 96 11:45
 To   : Channon Lang
 Subj : Re: Star Trek
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 -=> Over coffee and beignets, Channon Lang told Michael Harper all about

  Star Trek...

 CL> Actually, if you want to know the truth, until this last season, I
 CL> couldn't stand Babylon 5. I think, though, it was the different
 CL> writing methods and the different types of special effects that I had
 CL> problems adjusting to. The episode that caught my attention is the one
 CL> that had the "sex scene" in it. I just happened to be channel surfing
 CL> and those particular aliens caught my attention. I just about died
 CL> laughing at that one. I've been  hooked ever since.

 CL> I think what happens is people just had gotten used to seeing
 CL> Starfleet and some people, myself included, had problems adjusting.

 Exactly. It's hard to compete with something that's been part of the
 cultural landscape for the last thirty years; Trek has been around for
 a long time, and as you say, people had gotten used to it. It was
 familiar, comfortable. Then here comes this new show, with a whole new
 concept, and diehard Trekkers have a tough time with it. Some, like
 three in particular on Usenet, will never accept the show, and will
 savage anyone who's a fan. You're doing okay, Channon.

 See, the trick here has been to establish an individual identity. B5 is
 itself, and Trek, in all its various forms, is itself. They're two
 entirely different shows, with nothing in common except some of the
 actors and writers. Even that connection is tenuous; Walter Koenig's
 character, Bester, is so totally unlike Pavel Chekov that I have a hard
 time now imagining Walter playing such a nice, likeable guy. The
 scripts that D.C. Fontana and David Gerrold have written for B5 are
 much more adult and gritty than anything they wrote for Trek. Again,
 though, there's a thirty-year gap there; the work that these young
 actors and writers did back then has little bearing on what they're
 doing now.


... Does a radioactive cat have 18 half-lives?
--- RA/FD/FMail
 * Origin: The Eclectic Fox -- Memphis, TN 901-327-1008 (1:123/10)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 167 of 225
 From : Michael Harper                      1:123/10        .ÿò 12 .íâ 96 11:45
 To   : John Mcgill
 Subj : Re: tv and sf
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 -=> Over coffee and beignets, John Mcgill told Michael Harper all about

  tv and sf...

 JM> Say, isn't this also the same hack who wrote _E.T._?

 God, no. _E.T._ was written by Melissa Mathison, Harrison Ford's wife.
 Chris Columbus wrote a number of things before he got into directing,
 but that wasn't one of them. I think he wrote _The Goonies_, and I know
 he wrote _Heartbreak Hotel_. IMNSHO, somebody should nail his ears to a
 truck bumper and drag him face-first down Rodeo Drive. But every time
 he does something like _Mrs. Doubtfire_ that makes a pile of money, he
 becomes the fair-haired darling of the studios, and they suck up to him
 and give him anything he wants. He is everything I despise about the
 Hollywood studio system made manifest.

 Here endeth the sermon.



--- RA/FD/FMail
 * Origin: The Eclectic Fox -- Memphis, TN 901-327-1008 (1:123/10)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 168 of 225
 From : Frank Swarbrick                     1:104/825       .åò 11 .íâ 96 22:51
 To   : All
 Subj : Prisoner movie
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12  92-0022
Dunno if anyone's posted this yet...  I read an article in the paper
today that said that Patrick MacGoohan has signed on to write and
produce a motion picture based on his old tv series The Prisoner.  He
won't play the main character, but he may play another role.

Personally, I'm not sure how well the show would translate to the
modern silver screen, but with MacGoohan (is that right?) being
responsible for it there's certainly hope.  We shall see...

        Frank

... The Psi Corps Is Your Friend.  Trust The Corps.
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12
 * Origin: The Bailey Information Exchange BBS, 28.8k v.fc  (1:104/825.0)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 169 of 225
 From : HTom Trites                         1:282/62        .ÿò 12 .íâ 96 22:24
 To   : Don Dellmann
 Subj : nuclear BS
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
[much snipped]

 DD> The loggers are doing more to protect the forests with selective cutting
 DD> and replanting than they are "destroying" them.  Because of the efforts
 DD> of the logging companies, there are more acres of forest in the US today
 DD> than there were when Columbus arrived (according to the
 DD> US Forest Service).

Yes, there are more acres of "forest".  You have to remember, though, that
when Columbus arrived there were /no/ acres of "solid Aspen forest".  The
Forest Service figures cited do not distinguish between "natural forest" and
that human invention, the "monocrop forest".

The measurement is like claiming that the acres of wheat and rye (these
are grasses, remember) are part of the total acres of prairie, which is
composed of grasses.

--- Maximus 3.01
 * Origin: SpareCom: Internet email and Fidonet (1:282/62)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 170 of 225
 From : David Durgee                        1:109/458       .óá 13 .íâ 96 12:30
 To   : Mark Jones
 Subj : Virtual reality issues
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: InterEcho 1.14 6E011108
In a message dated 01-0996, Mark Jones said to J.t. Smith:

MJ>   And if you engage your taste for pain by sadistically tormenting
MJ>virtual victims, are you still twisted psycho?  Is it still a vicious,
MJ>evil thing to do?  Even if nobody is *really* hurt?  Even if you'd
MJ>never, ever do it to a REAL person?
MJ>   I'd say:  yes, it is still sick.  Because you're engaging a taste
MJ>for inflicting misery on others--even if those others don't exist.
MJ>   I'd also defend your right to do it since no *real* person is being
MJ>harmed.  But I wouldn't care to associate with you much.

Read a story in Analog a while ago that dealt with this issue.  Somebody got
to the point where he went beyond sadism to murder, first of anonymous
victims, then of a construct modeled after someone who actually existed.
Thanks to early warning the police stopped him when he decided that virtual
murder wasn't enough and decided to try the real thing.

I can see where this kind of use of virtual reality could be fine in a
theraputic setting, to deal with impulses and work out frustrations.  It
could also be put to good use in training exercises for dangerous
situations. I can also see it put to use in exploring environments hostile
to human life.  But when it goes out of control it can become a breeding
ground of all manner of evil.

Dave
___
 * MR/2 2.22 NR * Armed we are citizens, unarmed we are subjects. -- RAH


--- InterEcho 1.14
 * Origin: The Shoreline BBS  - (301) 946-2771 - Silver Spring, MD (1:109/458)


Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 171 of 225
 From : David Durgee                        1:109/458       .óá 13 .íâ 96 12:30
 To   : Chip Griffin
 Subj : Re: nuclear
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: InterEcho 1.14 6E011108
In a message dated 01-0896, Chip Griffin said to The Raven:

CG>you would need to make MEGAWATTS of power and beam it through the
CG>atmostphere ... what about airplanes?  What if one should pass through
CG>that airspace?  What about lifeforms (ie birds)?  We're talking crispy
CG>critters here!

This has been given serious consideration by engineering groups, to the
point that it is estimated a pilot plant could be launched for less than the
expense of building a new nuclear power plant under current restrictions.
The receiver for this would be about 10 miles square.  With that area the
energy density is several orders of magnitude too small to achieve any
"cooking". The advantage to a space based solar power satellite is that
there is no atmospheric absorption of energy prior to use and the space
environment prevents some losses of energy unavoidable down here.  The SPS
would also intercept power that would never reach earth and has no thermal
environmental consequences.

To tie this back into the Science Fiction topic of the area I read a story
in Analog a few years back where they diverted the output of a SPS to form a
"hot spot" in the ocean.  As the microwaves were absorbed in the first few
inches of water this worked, allowing them to steer a hurricane away from
the coast.  Whether this particular application is practical or not it gives
us something to think about.

Dave
---
 * MR/2 2.22 NR * Those not governed by God will be ruled by tyrants. - W Penn


--- InterEcho 1.14
 * Origin: The Shoreline BBS  - (301) 946-2771 - Silver Spring, MD (1:109/458)


Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 172 of 225
 From : J.T. Smith                          1:132/152       .pä 10 .íâ 96 21:57
 To   : Chip Griffin
 Subj : Re: nuclear
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Contact has been made.

 TR>      You aren't thinking it through.  Put the collectors in orbit.  Several
 TR> of them, placed at the right spots, and you never have the problem of
 TR> overcast days or the sun not shining.      Have the collectors convert the
 TR> light into microwaves, beam the microwaves to large antennas on the
 TR> surface, then convert the microwaves to electricity.  Simple.  Large
 TR> initial investment which pays for itself very quickly.
 CG> Actually I had thought it through!  You just added TWO more
 CG> conversions into the process which will make it MUCH less efficient.
 CG> In Nuclear power we consider ~30% efficiency pretty good and I think
 CG> you will have less efficiency then that!

 The efficiency would vary depending on the setup of the collectors,
 transmitters, and receivers.

 CG> Besides, on the scale
 CG> necessary to be useful you would need to make MEGAWATTS of power and
 CG> beam it through the atmostphere ... what about airplanes?  What if one
 CG> should pass through that airspace?

 The components affected by microwaves could be easily shielded.

 CG> What about lifeforms (ie birds)?
 CG> We're talking crispy critters here!

 Negative.  The reason yer microwave oven cooks things so well is because
 what ye're cooking is in a very enclosed environment.  With a wide enough
 dispersion and low enough intensity, ye could keep from "cooking" the local
 flora and fauna while also feeding several receivers at the same time.  The
 efficiency would be a wee bit lower to begin with, but that could be fine
 tuned over time; and in the end would be cleaner and safer.

 CG> de Chip [N1MIE] President of TRAUG         quarry@q.continuum.net


 CG> -!- MacKennel 2.2.1
 CG>  ! Origin: The Quarry: 860-889-6427 -- Amateur Radio & Mac User
 CG> (1:320/301.0)



... "I bid you peace." - J.T. Smith
--- Blue Wave v2.12 [NR]
 * Origin: The Cereal Port BBS (OS/2) Rindge,NH 603-899-3335 (1:132/152)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 173 of 225
 From : J.T. Smith                          1:132/152       .pä 10 .íâ 96 22:10
 To   : Chip Griffin
 Subj : re: nuclear safety
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Contact has been made.

 MD> Nuclear power is the most cost-effective and nearly the safest.
 JW>  Until it fucks up...look under 'Chernobyl' or 'Three Mile Island'
 CG> I don't think you get it.  I work on a site with three nuclear units.
 CG> At least two of them have gone over 1 BILLION MEGAWATT-HOURs.  That is
 CG> enough between the two for over 30 years of power for Connecticut not
 CG> counting the other unit on our site, the one on the CT river, the two
 CG> in Massachusetts, and the one in New Hampshire.  With the hundreds of
 CG> units around the world there are probably hundreds of thousands of
 CG> hours of operation without an incident. Browns-Ferry, TMI, Chernobyl
 CG> and others helped us all learn some valuable lessons.  As far as the US
 CG> goes, a Chernobyl-style incident is IMPOSSIBLE!

 Never kid yerself.  NOTHING is impossible.  Murphy's law has a way of
 catching up w/ ye.  Improbable I might grant, but never impossible.
 (Impossible just means it takes a wee bit longer to do.

 CG> Due to the inherent
 CG> instability and danger of their design they were a disaster waiting to
 CG> happen.  Lets just say that while graphite (their moderator, necessary
 CG> for all nuclear reactors) will burn, ours (water) won't!

 Anything can burn.  Including water.  Ye heat up H2O enough, ye'll cause
 the hydrogen and oxygen to seperate.  Hydrogen can explode, and oxygen will
 fuel that explosion.  I know a guy who was in the coast guard.  Watched a
 bucket of water literally explode.  2H2O can, and when heated enough, will
 break down into H2 and O2.  (Now if I could only remember me chemistry
 lectures on the mathmatics i could post them.)

 CG> The bottom line is that don't let the fact that all we get is bad
 CG> press over a few small (and fewer not so small, with one biggie)
 CG> incidents ... don't let that convince you that nuclear power isn't what
 CG> is best for the world.  With the given technology we have today,
 CG> nuclear power is the BEST "bang-for-the-buck" bar NONE!

 Bar the bang.  Look at the water that they're having to cyphon off into the
 atmosphere from TMI.  BTW, did I forget to mention that it's radioactive?
 Well guess what, it is!  No thanks.  I can think of more fun ways to die.
 Nuc power isn't the best.  There is always better.  Fossil fuels aren't it
 either as 1) they're a very limited resources, and 2) they're known
 polutants.

... C:\BWAVE\SCIFI.TAG
--- Blue Wave v2.12 [NR]
 * Origin: The Cereal Port BBS (OS/2) Rindge,NH 603-899-3335 (1:132/152)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 174 of 225
 From : Michael Harper                      1:123/10        .ÿò 12 .íâ 96 22:41
 To   : Frank Glover
 Subj : Nuclear
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 -=> Over coffee and beignets, Frank Glover told Mark Jones all about

  Nuclear mahooha...

 FG> Ever seen the Twilight Zone episode with Burgess Meredith as a man
 FG> who simply wished to be left alone to read? Then he finds himself the
 FG> only survivor of a nuclear attack, but the libraries are intact?
 FG> Then he breaks his glasses....?

 _Time Enough At Last_, iirc. One of the best TZ episodes ever. Almost
 heartbreaking. He's at this library, with piles of books that he's
 wanted to read forever, and he slips. His glasses hit the ground.
 Crunchtinkle. Why, this is Hell, nor am I out of it...


... "Aye, that way goes the game." -- Shakespeare
--- RA/FD/FMail
 * Origin: The Eclectic Fox -- Memphis, TN 901-327-1008 (1:123/10)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 175 of 225
 From : John Mcgill                         1:123/10        .óá 13 .íâ 96 00:25
 To   : Michael Harper
 Subj : tv and sf
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 -=> Quoting Michael Harper to John Mcgill <=-


 JM> Say, isn't this also the same hack who wrote _E.T._?
 MH> God, no. _E.T._ was written by Melissa Mathison, Harrison Ford's
 MH> wife. Chris Columbus wrote a number of things before he got into
 MH> directing, but that wasn't one of them. I think he wrote _The
 MH> Goonies_, and I know he wrote _Heartbreak Hotel_. IMNSHO, somebody

You're right of course.  I swear I remember a young Christoper Columbus
writning some Spielberg flick which was a heck of a lot more meaningful
than "Goonies".

     ----JOHN



... Science fiction is more than spaceships and rayguns.
--- RA/FD/FMail
 * Origin: The Eclectic Fox -- Memphis, TN 901-327-1008 (1:123/10)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 176 of 225
 From : Gary Warren                         1:382/92.7      .óá 13 .íâ 96 10:10
 To   : All
 Subj : Cancellation of FOREVER KNIGHT (fwd.)
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
========================================================================
 Copied from FILM by Gary Warren (1:382/92.7)
========================================================================
[Because of my ire about USA Network's abrupt cancellation of FOREVER KNIGHT,
I thought I'd forward this little goody I received from the Internet
SCRNWRIT (screenwriters) discussion list.  As requested in the Disclaimer,
I am crossposting this in its entirety, so be patient and skip down to
the nitty gritty.  --glw--]



From KaseyC@DISCOPY.COMSat Jan 13 09:43:52 1996
Date: Fri, 12 Jan 1996 14:28:00 PST
From: Kasey Chang <KaseyC@DISCOPY.COM>
Reply to: Screen Writing Discussion List <SCRNWRIT@TAMVM1.TAMU.EDU>
To: Multiple recipients of list SCRNWRIT <SCRNWRIT@TAMVM1.TAMU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Was Forever Knight cancelled?

[clip]

WARNING:  THIS NEWS COLUMN CONTAINS SPOILERS FOR EVERYTHING!!
   So if you get spoiled, don't come runnin' to me!
________________________________________________________________________

*** DISCLAIMER ***    Mr. Data's Data (c) 1996  Jay Badenhoop

    News reproduced from magazines and club newsletters listed in the
"Sources" section of "Mr. Data's Data" is not meant to in any way
infringe on the copyrights of those publications or the original films
and television series covered herein.  "Mr. Data's Data" can be
downloaded for private use only.  Information herein can be paraphrased
in other newsletters/publications - provided the author's name and the
list of original sources is included - because the information itself
is not copyrighted, but publication of "Mr. Data's Data" or excerpts
thereof in another publication, e.g. newsletter or fanzine, is not
permitted except with the express consent of the author, Jay Badenhoop.
Permission will probably be granted, but please ask.

This column is not to be re-posted on any Usenet or other bulletin board
service or "conference" which the author cannot access.  This is to
avoid public complaints and disputes of information in "Mr. Data's Data"
being aired publicly without the author's knowledge.  The only condition
in which it can be posted to such a board is if the BBS moderator or
poster agrees to forward all comments, complaints, questions, etc. back
to the author.  The news column must also be posted or forwarded in its
entirety including the author's note, list of sources, and disclaimer.

                        Jay Badenhoop
                        The Electron Slayer
                        Keeper of Mr. Data's Data (sf-news@stargame.org)
                        Milwaukee Time Lords/Star Fleet Academy
                        badnhoop@siucvmb.siu.edu
_______________________________________________________________________

January 8, 1996

                       Mr. Data's Data #72
    (Belated October 1995 - January 1996 Whopping Great Issue)


[Clip]

    On December 22, FOREVER KNIGHT producer James Parriott reported that
the show has essentially been cancelled with only 10 episodes aired and
16 filmed.  Instigator of the cancellation has been revealed as Kay
Klopovitz, CEO and President of USA Network.  Ironically, Klopovitz was
recently profiled in both "Forbes" and "Broadcasting and Cable"
magazines, which emphasized her "gutsy" and "risk-taking" business
acumen.  As President of USA she is the highest-ranking woman in cable
TV and, ironically, was praised for her decision to spend $250 million
to finance 24 original movies and other television programming over the
next two years, including offbeat series like FOREVER KNIGHT.  (For more
on USA Network, see "Cable and TV News".)  Ratings for FOREVER KNIGHT
have been very poor on both syndicated stations and USA Network, where
the show airs Mondays at 10 PM opposite CHICAGO HOPE.  It has averaged
70th out of 98 syndicated shows for which ratings are determined.
"Forever Knight will not be back for a fourth season," said Parriott,
and added, "USA has elected not to pick us up for the remainder of this
season.  Don't bother to write - it's a done deal.  This effectively
kills all chances for renewal and places the remaining 6 episodes of
this season in serious jeopardy, as Tri-Star would be stuck with a huge
deficit, and the syndicated market for the show is weak and shows little
promise for  airing this as a first run.  No one is at fault here.  In
show business, these things happen.  Rod Perth, at USA, has been
extremely supportive (he was the guy who originally started it on Late
Night CBS).  But the numbers just didn't come up to their needs...and
that's the end of the story.  ...Thank you for all you have done.
You're the best fans in the world.  Cross your fingers for the rest of
the season..."

    Fans immediately began gearing up for a "Save Forever Knight"
campaign to convince USA and TriStar to complete the season, but were
discouraged by Parriott.  "If you manage to convince the syndicated
stations to insist that Tri-Star complete the contracted 22 episode
order, the shows will have massively reduced budgets.  Instead of
shooting them in 6 or 7 days, we'll have to do them in 3 or 4.  Down and
dirty will be the operative words.  This might happen anyway... and I,
personally, dread it.  We'll be producing cheap shows that we don't want
to make and you don't want to watch.  That's an ugly way to go out."
Though the cancellation was confirmed by USA publicist Brian Schoenfeld,
ironically USA has actually added a third airing of FOREVER KNIGHT on
Tuesday at 9 PM starting with the season premiere and increased
promotion of the show.  Local station representatives appear to still be
unaware of USA's decision; they said the distributor has scheduled six
new episodes (the remaining filmed ones) to start airing the week of
January 13.  They are "Strings", "Fever", "Dead of Night", "Games
Vampires Play", "The Human Factor", and "Avenging Angel", followed by
repeats.  TriStar has not committed whether or not to continue
production on the last 6 episodes, and the plug could be pulled at any
time, though at this point it is likely the new episodes will be aired.
Fans are still urged to write your local station in support of the show,
and write TriStar asking that they syndicate the remaining episodes:
Mr.  John Feltheimer, TriStar/Columbia Pictures TV, 10202 Washington
Blvd., Culver City, CA  90230.  Also send a copy of your letter to
producer James Parriot, Forever Knight, 4063 Redford Avenue, Studio
City, CA 91604.

    More details on two episodes:  "Games Vampires Play" (#315) guest
stars Catherine Bruhier (DUE SOUTH) as a vampire named Rita.  The last
episode filmed (#316) was "Human Factor", in which Deborah Duchene
returns as Janette in a guest role.  Director Geraint Wyn Davies was
able to get her brought back for one episode, which he will be
directing, mostly due to all the letters which the fans have sent in
wanting her back.  Duchene was very touched by all the letters sent in.
This will be a major episode for her, and "have a shocking event", which
fans have speculated could be her demise.  <>  Toronto station CTV
reported that a flying stunt off the end of the Toronto Gardner
expressway for the 3rd season FOREVER KNIGHT episode "Sons of Belial"
worked a little too well.  It was intended that a car driven by a woman
possessed by demons crash through the guard rail and smash on the
concrete below, but the car overshot its intended target before bursting
into flames and scattering the film crew.  <>  One bit of good news:
Mark Banning of GNP Crescendo Records reports that a cassette and CD of
music from FOREVER KNIGHT will be released in February.  It will feature
tracks from composer Fred Mollin as well as vocals by Lori Yates as
heard in "The Raven", Geraint Wyn Davies at the piano, and extracts of
Nigel Bennett as "The Nightcrawler".  <>  Season 1 of FOREVER KNIGHT
just finished in Australia.  Season 2 has been picked up by Network 10;
no info on season 3.  <>  The series also debuted on the UK's Sky One on
4 November.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
[P.S. While Parriott seems to be throwing in the towel (with justification!),
I plan to write at least Tristar and USA Network to let them know how
miffed I am about the network ballyhooing about supporting FK, then changing
it into a SILK STALKINGS/HIGHLANDER hybrid, and THEN cancelling it and being
surprised about why it didn't succeed.  But what else can you expect from
a cable company which still runs 10/15-year-old game show repeats in the
afternoons and "pro wrestling" farces in the evenings??  --glw--]


... Blessed are the censors; for they shall inhibit the Earth.

-+- PPoint 1.90
 + Origin: Gary's Bar and Grill! (1:382/92.7)

... Revenge is a dish best served cold. It is very cold in space.

--- PPoint 1.90
 * Origin: Gary's Bar and Grill! (1:382/92.7)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 177 of 225
 From : Darren Lovatt                       2:201/190       .ÿò 12 .íâ 96 07:39
 To   : Jerry Van Kooten
 Subj : Red Dwarf / TNG crossover
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 > Hi Darren,

Greetings !

 >  DL> I have 2 or 3 texts writen by fans of RD on the Star Trek /RD theme ! I
 >
 >  DL> could post it in small sections here if you like or it's available from
 >  DL> the address below at your own expense !

 > Could you please give me an sample of one of the texts? I
 > still don't have a clue what it's about.

Will do ! See next message !

 > What would the size of an ARJ or ZIP be, with the texts?

REDTREK.ZIP     29K     Red Dwarf meets the next generation
SMEG_GEN.ARJ    25K     Dwarf Trek - The Smeggy Generation

Regards
/Darren

--- GEcho 1.00
 * Origin: ÄÄÍ(Detroit Rock City)ÍÄÄ for Hardrock /Sci-fi /Games.. (2:201/190)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 178 of 225
 From : Darren Lovatt                       2:201/190       .ÿò 12 .íâ 96 07:44
 To   : Jerry Van Kooten
 Subj : Red Dwarf / TNG crossover
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 > Could you please give me an sample of one of the texts? I


STAR TREK (the next generation) MEETS RED DWARF.

     [Shot of outside of Enterprise]

Picard: Captains log stardate 4/4704.3 We are in orbit around the outpost
        Ciety Alpha 12, some rather dubious circumstances surround this
        mission, with neither Star Fleet or myself knowing little of the
        situation, other than a strange glowing hole has appeared in the
        starfield.

[Cut to bridge, Picard is in his chair, Riker is leaning on the arm of his
chair, Worf is at his post, Geordi is at science station 5, and Data and
Wesley are on the Helm.]

Picard: Mr Data, Any change?

Data:   No change as of yet sir, although I am getting a message from the
        planet saying that they are getting a great suntan from the glow.
        It would appear that the hole is giving off all forms of
        electromagnetic radiation, as well as various gasses, mostly
        methane.

Picard: Any sign of audio waves ?

Data:   No sir, the gasses are not transferring any sound.

Riker:  (Smirking) Silent but violent !

Data:   (Turns his head inquisitively) Sir ?

Riker:  Never mind Data, just an old childish joke.

Data pauses for a second and then

Data:   Ah yes [He stands] a reference to the exhaustion of gasses from.....

Picard: Yes, thank you mister Data, I think we get the picture.

Data:   Yes Sir. [He takes his seat and presses various buttons]

Geordi: Sir, I'm getting a strong change in frequency from the hole... Sir
        its changing colour !!!

Picard: Data do you agree?

Data:   Yes sir, it would appear that it is indeed changing colour.

Picard: On screen [Worf presses buttons and the screen shows the hole
        changing colour]

[cut to outside, showing the hole which was previously yellow changing to
red]

[Fade to black, Run opening credits]


[Fade back in to show hole changing colour, and then switch to the bridge;
Jupiter mining ship Red Dwarf]

[Rimmer, Cat, Lister and Kryten are stood staring at a view screen which
shows the inside of the hole, ILM are strutting their funky stuff]

Rimmer: ALIENS ! I knew it, Aliens.

Lister: Shut the smeg up Rimmer, Shut up.

Kryten: [to cat] Sir, unlikely as it may seem, the singular act of plugging
        your super deluxe hair dryer into the control room power supply has
        put us in a space/time hole, and I feel that I must say that I think
        that you are a complete SMEEEG HEERRD.

Cat:    Well if you'd wired up some decent sockets in my room, not ones that
        go "VIIISST" every time you use one then everything would be OK.

Lister: Look, what does it matter how we got here, we're here now anyway.

Cat:    Yeah he's right, at least the view outside matches my suit. [He
spins]

Holly:  Hang about, I'm picking something up.

Lister: What is it Hol ?

Holly:  Well either its a hyper-light speed battle cruiser, or its some sand
        stuck in the scanner.

Rimmer: Aliens, See I told you !

Lister: For the last time shut the SMEG up.

Holly:  Uh oh, I was wrong, it's only a highly destructive photon torpedo
        probe.

Rimmer: I Knew it, it's the body snatchers, they come to your house trying to
        sell a set of Encyclopedia Galacticas and then VOOOM there goes your
        face.

Cat:    Yeah, their motto is "They came, They saw, They stole your ass."

Holly:  Hang about, we've got a message.

Lister: [pressing buttons] Lob it up Hol.

[The screen fizzes and Picard appears]

Picard: This is captain Jean Luc Picard of the federation starship
Enterprise,
        Please Identify yourself.

Lister: Smeggin' Hell, they're human, we've come through a time hole.

Cat:    Was that a woman I saw in the background ?

Kryten: This is very strange, The Enterprise was just in the design stages
        when we left earth, about 4 years ago, but it would not have been
        commissioned for another 6 years, and I'm sure it used to be green !

Holly:  I s'pose that we could have come back just after the Enterprise was
        commissioned, Say 11 years after we left.

Kryten: Of course, it was not the Enterprise that was green, it was the
        Romulan Bird of Prey. Sorry sir my memory chip seems to have become
        momentarily dislocated.

[Lister hits Kryten over the head with Cats hair-dryer.]

Kryten: Thank you sir, I needed that.

Cat:    My hair dryer!!!....Oh never mind....it was fried by Plastic Percy's
        wiring anyway.


Take care
/Darren

--- GEcho 1.00
 * Origin: ÄÄÍ(Detroit Rock City)ÍÄÄ for Hardrock /Sci-fi /Games.. (2:201/190)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 179 of 225
 From : Brad Morgan                         1:342/63        .ÿò 12 .íâ 96 15:55
 To   : Chris Thurman
 Subj : Science Fiction
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
>after reading your post...Greyeyes speaks<

CT->If any girls are looking for a guy who like science fiction then call on y
CT->phone, not the modem, 386-0660 and ask for Mike.  He is an avid science
CT->fiction fan, and he dumped all his girlfriends because they didn't like
CT->science fiction.  He is a nice guy, 16 years old.  Call him if you want to
CT->to get hooked up with him, or if you just want to talk to a science fictio
CT->fan.  If he asks you how you got his name and number then please say it wa
CT->me because he might get mad at me, just tell him that you talked to someon
CT->named Joe, and that Joe gave you his name and number.

Chris! we need a area code too....

>amateurish pranksters should be shot<

 * SLMR 2.1a * Bachelor's wives and spinster's children: always perfect.
--- Renegade v10-05 Exp
 * Origin: The Ferret Farm BBs -403-457-3396- (1:342/63)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 180 of 225
 From : Don Bach                            1:3632/65       .óá 13 .íâ 96 15:13
 To   : Chris Ogniben
 Subj : Star Trek
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 CO> .. So, i
 CO> am a big trek fan.  And, i will always be one, since i love sci fi
 CO> stuff.

What is your favorite episode?

Don


--- Maximus 3.01
 * Origin: No Regrets, Clinton, MS (601)924-8247 9P-5A (1:3632/65)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 181 of 225
 From : Robert Siemborski                   1:2604/214      .ÿò 12 .íâ 96 13:14
 To   : Joel Ranger
 Subj : Re: NOWHERE MAN
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 >Yeah, I like the cigar plot....of course, now anytime he sees someone
 >doing it, he automatically distrusts them....

And why shouldn't he?  His life is strange enough between that and the things
that keep breaking.

 >I also missed the pilot the first time it was on....programmed my VCR
 >wrong....luckily, I have a friend that taped it so I got to see it...
 >When it starts repeating them again, I am really going to have to tape
 >it...

I saw it about 3 days after I wrote my message.  It was really good.  It's on of
my favorite 2, the other being the one with the VR, even though the VR scenes
themselves were kinda cheesy.

 >In your opinion, how long do you think they should/can keep the current
 >plot going? How long is Tom going to be on the run, always looking out
 >for 'Them'?

Well, not every episoded focuses completely on that, there are other stories
that could be written.  But in order to keep that plot interesting they have to
keep dropping clues everywhere and that can only go so far before the truth
comes out.  So maybe 2 more seasons would be my guess, but it's a long shot.  Of
course it could wind up like Quantum Leap where he never got his old life
back.... Ugh.

- Rob -

--- SLMAIL v4.5a  (#1409)
 * Origin: Bits 'N Bytes BBS - Leonia, NJ - (201) 346-1661 - 28.8k Connections!
(1:2604/214)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 182 of 225
 From : Robert Siemborski                   1:2604/214      .ÿò 12 .íâ 96 13:20
 To   : Channon Lang
 Subj : Re: Star Trek
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 > The episode that caught my attention is the one that had the "sex scene"
 > in it. I just happened to be channel surfing and those particular aliens
 > caught my attention. I just about died laughing at that one. I've been
 > hooked ever since.

If you liked that one, be on the lookout for what jms called the "funniest scene
to date on the series" in the first of the new block of episodes. Something that
Ivonova says in Sheriden's bedroom is supposed to be really funny.  Take that
for what you will.

- Rob -

--- SLMAIL v4.5a  (#1409)
 * Origin: Bits 'N Bytes BBS - Leonia, NJ - (201) 346-1661 - 28.8k Connections!
(1:2604/214)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 183 of 225
 From : Robert Siemborski                   1:2604/214      .óá 13 .íâ 96 07:26
 To   : Stephen Adams
 Subj : Re: NOWHERE MAN
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 >Personally, I hope the the producers DON'T change the show to make it
 >more appealing to the mass market. I think that it would lessen the
 >quality of the arc, probably making the Tom Veil character look really
 >ridiculous in the process.

Kind of like what jms is doing with B5 (not changing it).  He says he has a
story to tell and that's it.  He won't change it.

I didn't know they were planning on changing it.

- Rob -

--- SLMAIL v4.5a  (#1409)
 * Origin: Bits 'N Bytes BBS - Leonia, NJ - (201) 346-1661 - 28.8k Connections!
(1:2604/214)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 184 of 225
 From : Phill Ash                           1:275/160       .ÿò 12 .íâ 96 20:31
 To   : Judy Hayes
 Subj : Personal Favorites.
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE 1.11+

 PA> Around here, the place to go is Dr. Bob's Theatricity.
 PA> There's a place in NYC called Paramount Theatrical Supplies (at
 PA> least I think that's right...it's been so long since I dealt
 PA> with them!) that has a nice mail-order catalog.

 JH> Errr....maybe I just should have asked - "Is it easily available?"  VA
 JH> is a  little bit too far for me to go. <g>

        414... that's Milwaukee!
        Surely there's something in your area that passes for a Theatre
        District.  If ya can't find out who they deal through, then call
        the New York City Chamber of Commerce (I'll bet there's even a
        1-800 number!) and try to get the listing for Paramount
        Theatrical Supplies.  (or just check your Yellow Pages for
        Theatrical Supplies)

        Happy Hunting!


Your pal:  PhlAsh
... Airplanes make strangers of us all.  Give us distance - much too easily.
---
 * Ùystertags v1.1 *
~~~ ReneWave v1.01 [NR]
--- Smile :)
 * Origin: * The Beast's Lair * (804)498-3070 * Va Beach VA * (1:275/160)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 185 of 225
 From : Jeff Hancock                        1:3600/7        .ÿò 12 .íâ 96 12:16
 To   : Star Hawk
 Subj : B5 -- Coincidence?
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

SH>  [> implication was that someone said JMS borrowed from WOH, and I
SH>     I'm at a loss to find any real connection between WoH and B5...
SH>and i've seen WoH [although not recently].  Without more to go on,
SH>i'd go with the overactive imagination.

That's probably all there is, although associations can spring in the
most unlikely cases from the oddest similarities.

For example, the last new episode of B5 had the "Black Rose killer". I
didn't think anything special of it; until after that I saw some
episodes of Ranma 1/2 with a character self-nicknamed "The Black Rose".
But aside from that, no real similarity. ('course, for all I know, a
black rose is a old story element, not that I'd ever run into it before)

Another anime I ran into had living starships... but again, not even
similiar in detail.

-=-
 * Crazy-J * "What we demand is a total absence of solid facts."

--- SLMAIL v3.5C  (#1540)
 * Origin: Robotech þ Lake City's Music*Demo BBS þ [904] 758*9477 (1:3600/7)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 186 of 225
 From : Frank Glover                        1:2613/477      .óá 13 .íâ 96 18:44
 To   : Ken Mayes
 Subj : Re: nuclear BS
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

KM>          To me one of the greatest dangers of nuclear power is over
KM>  dependence on it. We already rely far too heavily on it.

   It's fairer to say we're heavily dependent on *electricity.* Nukes are just
one source of it, and not the biggest.

   Frank


--- QuickBBS 2.80 GoldBase (Zeta-1)
 * Origin: The Matrix Data Bank BBS, Rochester, Ny (1:2613/477)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 187 of 225
 From : Roelof Otten                        2:282/214       .ÿò 12 .íâ 96 00:28
 To   : Trevor Pack
 Subj : X-files
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Hello Trevor!

Friday January 05 1996, Trevor Pack writes to Roelof Otten:

 TP> I don't have access to X-files
 TP> echoe

Try to convince your sysop to connect it. Te x-files echo is on the backbone
just like this echo, so he should be able to get it via the same link. I can
even get it in the Netherlands.



Roelof

--- GED/2 2.50+/FMail1.02+
 * Origin: The Cheesemaker's Home (2:282/214)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 188 of 225
 From : Lawrence E Dunlap                   1:106/2927      .ÿò 12 .íâ 96 23:09
 To   : Michael Harper
 Subj : Re: tv and sf
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Michael,

MH>Thus illustrating the point; you don't have to be good to make it in
MH>Hollywood, just persistent and lucky. Good is icing on the cake.

MH>Straczynski is an excellent example of that. Joe started out writing
MH>for _Masters Of The Universe_, mostly because he watched an episode,
MH>thought "Hell, I can write better than this", ran off a script in the
MH>correct format, and sent it in, figuring nothing >would happen. Next
MH>thing ya know, they're calling him, asking him to >come work for
MH>them. Miracles do happen...

   You point out one glaring difference between US and British TV, that
some foundational degree of culture was present when their networks
started. The American networks tried to rise above the poor breeding of
the typical American


M

MH>.ED> Next is a housecleaning of advertising agency executives who lower
MH>.ED> the denominators of the concepts in TV that corrupts the average
MH>.ED> viewer to accept literal *sewage*.
MH>
MH>Again, as long as it sells soap, the ad execs don't care. People like
MH>you and I are the exception, not the rule.

MH>The rule is the thirty-five year-old construction worker who watches
MH>American Gladiators and Cops. He's got a wife who's five or more
MH>years younger than him, six kids, a pickup, a bad-tempered Doberman,
MH>and an eighteen-year-old college cheerleader he's fooling around with
MH>on the side.

   My father's generation fought WWII, his brothers fought Korea and
Vidtnam so *this* kind of Baby Boomer could be free to be such a low
breed of life *just* described?

MH>He's got maybe a GED with a year or two of trade school. And this guy
MH>is who the ad execs are aiming at, him and his wife. He'll gladly
MH>chew on what the tube spews, because he doesn't know or care that
MH>there's anything better. This guy finds Trek incomprehensible, and
MH>it's one of the most accessible sf series on the air.

MH>He reads low-grade technothrillers and maybe understands every
MH>other word. His wife reads V.C. Andrews and Danielle Steel. He's
MH>Joe Average, and the only place he ever heard of literature was
MH>when they forced him to MH>read Dickens and Hemingway and Steinbeck
MH>in English class; his only MH>exposure sf has been Trek, and he
MH>didn't understand it.


MH> Origin: (1:123/10)



   Any civillized 21st Century culture cannot exist with such poorly
bred citizen of this level of ethical values and literacy in the
sciences as portrayed by the composite man just presented here.

   For one thing, in democracies such a man must be currently literate
in the sciences to effectively vote intelligently on scientific issues.

   *This* kind of a vacuum brained man would vote in a tyrrany!

   You're suggesting--impuigning!--that civlilized intelligent life
isn't preponderant in our country because popular media has cultivated
empty-minded life to prevent any critical thinking about nonrenewanble
consumer products to protect easy profit margins.

   Why does my guts suspect a educated and ethical population might not
buy so much nonrenewable consumables or docilely accept this level of
mediocracy in entertainment?

   What is your thinking about any good SF finding a place in mass
market media with the declining educational sharpness that you've just
highlighted? To say nothing of the survival of a educatuionally literate
television system in the US?




Lawrence E Dunlap
(1:106/2927)
___
* UniQWK #5136* Backup not found: (A)bort (R)etry (S)lap nearest bystander

--- Alexi/Mail 2.02b (#10000)
 * Origin: Computer Living F'n BBS-Houston, TX 713-444-2927 (1:106/2927)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 189 of 225
 From : Mark Jones                          1:105/302.47    .ÿò 12 .íâ 96 17:48
 To   : ROBERT LIDGREN
 Subj : VIRTUAL SEX
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On (09 Jan 96) ROBERT LIDGREN wrote to J.T. SMITH...

 RL> Well put but I'm not really interested in virtual sex. The real
 RL> thing is better INMHO.

   That's not necessarily the case.  If you're unable or unwilling to
pursue real-life relationships, virtual sex may be just what the
doctor ordered.  And even if you *are* doing fine in the real world,
chances are you'll never get your hands on [insert starlet of your
choice here], but you can *virtually* do it.

 RL> I do think virtual TRAVEL would be really nifty though. I'd love
 RL> to take a trip on the Space Shuttle and the virtusal form might
 RL> be neat. I'd also like to rappel down the side of the Matterhorn,
 RL> shoot the rapids of the Colorado River and dive down into an
 RL> active volcano - all neat virtual experiences.

And a virtual love affair wouldn't be just as entertaining?
Especially if it were so realistic you couldn't tell it from the real
thing?


--- PPoint 1.78
 * Origin: Folcroft Sanitarium (hsmith@cure.com) (1:105/302.47)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 190 of 225
 From : Mark Jones                          1:105/302.47    .ÿò 12 .íâ 96 17:53
 To   : STEPHEN ADAMS
 Subj : NOWHERE MAN
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On (10 Jan 96) STEPHEN ADAMS wrote to NICOLE WILSON...

 SA> It's been established in an episode I saw before Christmas, that Tom's
 SA> wife and mother are in on the Conspiracy.

And did they make any attempt to justify this?  Are they acting under
duress?  Are they brainwashed?  Are they going along in hopes of
getting the conspiracy off his back if he'll cooperate?  Or are they
simply coopted by fiat, because this shocking betrayal adds to the
paranoia level?  [That would be my guess.]

The way his wife turned on him in the pilot was one of the reasons I
lost interest in the show.  That kind of 180 degree turn in her
behavior needed some heavy-duty justification.  And there was *none*.
If she was a ringer all along, why didn't they just have her *steal*
the negatives, or at least find out where he kept them (so experts
could blow the safe, for instance).

If she really *did* love him so much, why did she turn on him so
completely?  And why isn't she a major star if she can be such a
convincing actress--pretending so consistently to love him (if she
didn't) or not to know him (if she's trying to protect him).


--- PPoint 1.78
 * Origin: Folcroft Sanitarium (hsmith@cure.com) (1:105/302.47)

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 Msg  : 191 of 225
 From : Mark Jones                          1:105/302.47    .ÿò 12 .íâ 96 17:59
 To   : Phill Ash
 Subj : Nuclear
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On (11 Jan 96) Phill Ash wrote to David Johnston...

 PA> er... The most common human mutation over the past 30 or so years
 PA> has not been very beneficial to the specie as a whole.

 PA> It's called "cancer"

   Do you know of any reputable medical authority which actually
considers cancer a mutation--rather than a disease?  I don't.
   Certainly cancers can be one of the results of exposure to
dangerous levels of radiation.  That doesn't make it a mutation;
mutations don't occur in a single organism anyhow (comic book mutants
aside).  From what I know of them, cancers seem more and more to the
be result of an interaction between environmental factors and
genetics.  Like many other diseases, you may be more or less likely to
develop a cancer based on your genetic heritage--but environmental
(and possibly behavior) influences can influence whether it actually
occurs.
   And I believe cancers have been around for a very long time.  But
no doubt the vast majority of cancers throughout history went
undiagnosed.  Or misdiagnosed.


--- PPoint 1.78
 * Origin: Folcroft Sanitarium (hsmith@cure.com) (1:105/302.47)

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 Msg  : 192 of 225
 From : Glenn Shaheen                       1:3600/7        .pä 10 .íâ 96 20:47
 To   : Chris Bach
 Subj : X-files
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

CB>     The X-Files are getting righteous right now! What're you talking
CB>about! Did you see the mini-series where Mulder got on the train run by
CB>the government with the alien autopsy?? Great series! And have you seen
CB>a season premiere lately? They've all been great! A couple of the
CB>episodes have lacked as much as others, but others are the best! I love
CB>'um. Dana needs to give up her dumb proof, though. I've never heard of a
CB>guy who sucked out fat, though...

        I thought the other days roach episode was pretty darn cheesy,
kind of like one of those old "B" 50s movies where they threw various
neat-o effects in to help scare the audience. Every now and then there
is a good one, but they are slacking off.

                                        Peace and Long Life
-=-
 * OLX 2.2 * "Why do you hang around with that sadist?"  "Beats me!"

--- SLMAIL v3.5C  (#1540)
 * Origin: Robotech þ Lake City's Music*Demo BBS þ [904] 758*9477 (1:3600/7)

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 Msg  : 193 of 225
 From : Glenn Shaheen                       1:3600/7        .åò 11 .íâ 96 09:40
 To   : Aaron Turon
 Subj : Hi!
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

AT>Hello! I'm a total TREKIE! Does anyone else like it? Please write back!

      I do.
-=-
 * OLX 2.2 * "Yes, you can help us fight at the corral," Wyatt okayed.

--- SLMAIL v3.5C  (#1540)
 * Origin: Robotech þ Lake City's Music*Demo BBS þ [904] 758*9477 (1:3600/7)

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 Msg  : 194 of 225
 From : Glenn Shaheen                       1:3600/7        .åò 11 .íâ 96 09:43
 To   : Aaron Turon
 Subj : Star Trek
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

AT>Does ANYONE out there like Star Trek?
AT>Please respond!

        I love it. In fact, as I'm typing this, I have Star Trek 2 on in
the background. They are about to go to the nebula and have a cool
battle.
-=-
 * OLX 2.2 * "You summoned me, Captain?", asked T. Earl Grey, hotly.

--- SLMAIL v3.5C  (#1540)
 * Origin: Robotech þ Lake City's Music*Demo BBS þ [904] 758*9477 (1:3600/7)

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 Msg  : 195 of 225
 From : Glenn Shaheen                       1:3600/7        .åò 11 .íâ 96 09:44
 To   : Aaron Turon
 Subj : Star Trek Voyager
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

AT>I liked that episode where Nealix( that's probably spelled wrong, but I
AT>don't know how to spell it) lungs get taken out. There are a lot of other
AT>good ones, so if you know any and would like to discuss with me, just e-
AT>mail! thanks :)

AT>--- Opus-CBCS 1.73a
AT> * Origin: Chipper Clipper * Scott me up beamy! * 941-745-56 (1:137/2.0)

-=-
 * OLX 2.2 * "You're just experiencing denial."   "I am not!"

--- SLMAIL v3.5C  (#1540)
 * Origin: Robotech þ Lake City's Music*Demo BBS þ [904] 758*9477 (1:3600/7)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 196 of 225
 From : Glenn Shaheen                       1:3600/7        .åò 11 .íâ 96 09:47
 To   : Aaron Turon
 Subj : Star Trek Voyager
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

AT>I liked that episode where Nealix( that's probably spelled wrong, but I
AT>don't know how to spell it) lungs get taken out. There are a lot of other
AT>good ones, so if you know any and would like to discuss with me, just e-
AT>mail! thanks :)

        My favorite episode is when they find the planet freshely
destroyed (Time And Again?). Another good one is where they separate
B'Elonna's Klingon and Human halves.
-=-
 * OLX 2.2 * ... * <- Tribble     ===*=== <-- Tribble roadkill

--- SLMAIL v3.5C  (#1540)
 * Origin: Robotech þ Lake City's Music*Demo BBS þ [904] 758*9477 (1:3600/7)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 197 of 225
 From : Glenn Shaheen                       1:3600/7        .åò 11 .íâ 96 09:57
 To   : Emilio Ares
 Subj : Star Trek
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

EA>Star Trek, yes, in all its incarnations except Voyager.  They need to hir
EA>some writers.

        VOYAGER?!?!!?! I think Deep Space 9 is the one who needs to get
some writers. Voyager is actually pretty good.
-=-
 * OLX 2.2 * 64,999,999 Firearms Owners Killed Nobody Yesterday

--- SLMAIL v3.5C  (#1540)
 * Origin: Robotech þ Lake City's Music*Demo BBS þ [904] 758*9477 (1:3600/7)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 198 of 225
 From : Glenn Shaheen                       1:3600/7        .åò 11 .íâ 96 10:05
 To   : Trevor Pack
 Subj : X-files
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

TP>Did anybody see the one on killer cockroaches? Want to talk about it.

        I did and I thought it was ruined ruined ruined because they
handeled it really bad. My opinion, what about yers?
-=-
 * OLX 2.2 * Another brilyunt mind diztroyed by publik edukashn

--- SLMAIL v3.5C  (#1540)
 * Origin: Robotech þ Lake City's Music*Demo BBS þ [904] 758*9477 (1:3600/7)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 199 of 225
 From : Channon Lang                        1:130/809       .cê 14 .íâ 96 19:06
 To   : Michael Harper
 Subj : Re: Star Trek
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE 1.11+
From a dark bottomless pit,Michael Harper screamed up to Channon Lang about Star
Trek..

 CL> I think what happens is people just had gotten used to seeing
 CL> Starfleet and some people, myself included, had problems adjusting.

 MH> Exactly. It's hard to compete with something that's been part of the
 MH> cultural landscape for the last thirty years; Trek has been around
 MH> for a long time, and as you say, people had gotten used to it. It was
 MH> familiar, comfortable. Then here comes this new show, with a whole
 MH> new concept, and diehard Trekkers have a tough time with it. Some,
 MH> like three in particular on Usenet, will never accept the show, and
 MH> will savage anyone who's a fan. You're doing okay, Channon.

Isn't it interesting that 30 years ago Star Trek was on the edge about
everything, and now it's considered safe? Times they are a changin', eh?

 MH> See, the trick here has been to establish an individual identity. B5
 MH> is itself, and Trek, in all its various forms, is itself. They're two
 MH> entirely different shows, with nothing in common except some of the
 MH> actors and writers. Even that connection is tenuous; Walter Koenig's
 MH> character, Bester, is so totally unlike Pavel Chekov that I have a
 MH> hard time now imagining Walter playing such a nice, likeable guy. The
 MH> scripts that D.C. Fontana and David Gerrold have written for B5 are
 MH> much more adult and gritty than anything they wrote for Trek. Again,
 MH> though, there's a thirty-year gap there; the work that these young
 MH> actors and writers did back then has little bearing on what they're
 MH> doing now.

 Well, I'm a storyline person myself, and I had problems plopping myself
 into a place I really had no knowlege of. I think if they had pushed it
 a little bit more at the beginning, I might have adapted sooner. As it was,
 I didn't really like what I knew of the story, and therefore looked no
 further. That is, unitl had nothing else to do one day.

 Channon
... Ask me about my vow of silence.
--- MachoEcho 0.5ñ
 * Origin: The State of Confusion * Arlington Tx * 817-274-1920 * (1:130/809)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 200 of 225
 From : Samantha Dobbs                      1:229/610       .òp 09 .íâ 96 12:47
 To   : Shawn Merrow
 Subj : Re: Space: Above & Beyond
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
So who you like in the show? I like McQueen!!

Sam...

--- CNet/3
 * Origin: The Neutral Zone...(1:229/610.0)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 201 of 225
 From : Samantha Dobbs                      1:229/610       .pä 10 .íâ 96 11:40
 To   : Rene Nieuwenhuizen
 Subj : Re: Space: Above & Beyond
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
It's a great show!!!

Sam...

--- CNet/3
 * Origin: The Neutral Zone...(1:229/610.0)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 202 of 225
 From : Samantha Dobbs                      1:229/610       .pä 10 .íâ 96 11:41
 To   : Marco Catalano
 Subj : Re: Space: Above & Beyond
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
It's a great show!!

Sam...

--- CNet/3
 * Origin: The Neutral Zone...(1:229/610.0)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 203 of 225
 From : Len Lekx                            1:250/224.171   .ÿò 12 .íâ 96 10:52
 To   : Chip Griffin
 Subj : Re: nuclear
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Hello Chip,
 In a message dated 08 Jan 96 you wrote to The Raven :

 TR>> collectors convert the light into microwaves, beam the microwaves to
 TR>> large antennas on the surface, then convert the microwaves to
 TR>> electricity.  Simple.  Large initial investment which pays for itself
 TR>> very quickly.
 CG> Actually I had thought it through!  You just added TWO more conversions
 CG> into the process which will make it MUCH less efficient.  In Nuclear
 CG> power we consider ~30% efficiency pretty good and I think you will have
 CG> less efficiency then that!  Besides, on the scale necessary to be
 CG> useful you would need to make MEGAWATTS of power and beam it through
 CG> the atmostphere ... what about airplanes?  What if one should pass
 CG> through that airspace?  What about lifeforms (ie birds)?  We're talking
 CG> crispy critters here!

    Here we go again!  (^_^)  Solar Thermal generators run (typically) 40+%
efficient - and that's ON THE GROUND.  Thermal engines are more efficient when
the temperature difference increases, and there's a BIG thermal difference in
orbit.  (^_-)

    The baseline SPS proposed by several companies - for power-plant operation -
is 10 GigaWatts.  Microwaves are reflected by metal, so aircraft will have no
problems.  The microwaves are continuous, not pulsed (as in a microwave oven),
so there's NO danger of animals getting cooked.  A little warmer, yes.  Cooked,
no.

    If you *still* don't like microwaves, how about a diffuse laser set to a
frequency that isn't absorbed by the atmosphere?  Nothing but light coming down
from them.  (although the conversion to electricity wouldn't be as efficient...
30% for PV as opposed to 80%+ for microwave conversion...)

     Later!

          Len Lekx


... "Hey, Rocky!  Watch me pull Yuri outta my hat!"

--- Mail Manager 1.1x/n
 * Origin: The Angels' Haven - Richmond Hill, ON (1:250/224.171@fidonet)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 204 of 225
 From : Samantha Dobbs                      1:229/610       .cê 07 .íâ 96 13:09
 To   : Brandon Wolgast
 Subj : Re: Space: Above & Beyond
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
HEY!!! Nice to see not everyone likes Star Trek! Let me ask you... Do you think
the show has gotten better since the pilot? I didn't like the pilot cuz McQueen
was a bit of a hard ass on the 58th. HE has gotten better. Who you like on the
show?

Sam...

--- CNet/3
 * Origin: The Neutral Zone...(1:229/610.0)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 205 of 225
 From : Judy Hayes                          1:154/40        .cê 14 .íâ 96 15:41
 To   : Phill Ash
 Subj : Re: Personal Favorites.
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

->Quoshara grinned at Phill and said, "Personal Favorites.? No problem!"


 PA> Around here, the place to go is Dr. Bob's Theatricity.
 PA> There's a place in NYC called Paramount Theatrical Supplies (at
 PA> least I think that's right...it's been so long since I dealt
 PA> with them!) that has a nice mail-order catalog.

 JH> Errr....maybe I just should have asked - "Is it easily available?"  VA
 JH> is a  little bit too far for me to go. <g>

 PA> 414... that's Milwaukee!

Well, Wisconsin anyway...|-)

 PA> Surely there's something in your area that passes for a
 PA> Theatre District.  If ya can't find out who they deal through,
 PA> then call the New York City Chamber of Commerce (I'll bet
 PA> there's even a 1-800 number!) and try to get the listing for
 PA> Paramount Theatrical Supplies.  (or just check your Yellow
 PA> Pages for Theatrical Supplies)

Actually, there is a Theatrical supply place nearby...or what passes for one
here...it just doesn't seem to have much past the basics.  I *will* check it
again, however, since the one time I was in there I was just browsing.

As for a "Theatre District" - nah, don't have one....our theatres are pretty
spread out even though we do have 2 or 3  professional ones.

 PA> Happy Hunting!

Thanks!

      --Quoshara


... OK, I'm weird! But I'm saving up to become eccentric.
---
 * Origin: Anonymous BBS -=- Non plus Ultra -=- 414-251-2580 (1:154/40)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 206 of 225
 From : Judy Hayes                          1:154/40        .cê 14 .íâ 96 15:41
 To   : All
 Subj : "Who" knew.
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Howdy, all!

Just a note picked up from Jay Badenhoop's "Mr. Data's Data" -

"Actor Paul McGann (Alien 3, The Three Musketeers) has just been signed to
play the title role in the new "Doctor Who" movie.

      --Quoshara


... A stich in time saves nine, but does that include temporal anomolies?
---
 * Origin: Anonymous BBS -=- Non plus Ultra -=- 414-251-2580 (1:154/40)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 207 of 225
 From : Longhair                            1:123/569       .cê 14 .íâ 96 11:59
 To   : Jhereg
 Subj : elfquest
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE 1.11+

 -=> And Jhereg did express this opinion  to Longhair <=-

 BPL> I was a big elfquest fan in the early '80s, though I haven't seen
 BPL> much of it recently.
 Lo> You haven't been spending enough time in a comics shop. :> There
 Lo> are now several regular monthly or bi-monthly titles. You've got your

 Jh> Like Barton, wasn't aware there was this much still out here in this
 Jh> day and age. Is this all drawn and written by the Pini's or are they
 Jh> done by other folks.


       No, much of the work is done by other folks. Richard is editor in chief
of the line (if I remember correctly) and Wendy is Art Director. So it has the
same sorta feel, but it's not the hand's on approach they did when it was one
slow series at a time.

... Death is lifes way of telling you that you are fired.
--- Blue Wave/RA v2.12 [NR]
 * Origin: 9 out of 5 Schizos prefer Lunatic Fringe! 382-LUST (1:123/569)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 208 of 225
 From : Longhair                            1:123/569       .cê 14 .íâ 96 11:59
 To   : Brion Lienhart
 Subj : elfquest
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE 1.11+

 -=> And Brion Lienhart did express this opinion  to Longhair <=-

 BL> That was a new one on me as well. Oh yeah, I'm an EQ fan, I've got all
 BL> of the original series. Have you figured out the Treasure Quest yet? I
 BL> haven't been by the comic book store to pick up the last two issues,
 BL> I'll probably be too late.

        I haven't worked on it any except figuring out the clue each issue. I
haven't actually filled anything out though.

... DOS never says "EXCELLENT command or filename"...
--- Blue Wave/RA v2.12 [NR]
 * Origin: 9 out of 5 Schizos prefer Lunatic Fringe! 382-LUST (1:123/569)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 209 of 225
 From : Barton Paul Levenson                1:129/26        .cê 14 .íâ 96 07:00
 To   : Ken Mayes
 Subj : Re: nuclear BS
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
You may be right.  But it's hard to see our becoming that dependent on it.  It
doesn't generate all our electricity, or even most of it, and its already
expensive enough that it's hard to get investors to back new plants.  My own
guess is that fission has seen its day and is on the way out.  Wind is already
competitive in California, and fusion should become available some time in the
next 20 years.  Of course, it's been ready to show up in the next 20 years since
1950 or so...

--- Maximus 3.01
 * Origin: SoundingBoard, Pittsburgh PA (1:129/26)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 210 of 225
 From : David Johnston                      1:342/14        .cê 14 .íâ 96 00:08
 To   : Phill Ash
 Subj : Nuclear
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
-> ->       humanity (as a whole) is slowly becoming stupider and
-> weaker.
-> DJ> Nope.  Merely more adapted to it's present environment.
->       er...
->       The most common human mutation over the past 30 or so years has
->       not been very beneficial to the specie as a whole.
->
->               It's called "cancer"

Cancer isn't a mutation.  It's a replication error.

--- PCBoard (R) v15.21/100
 * Origin: Freddy's Place - Edm. AB - 28.8K (403) 456-4241 (1:342/14)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 211 of 225
 From : David Johnston                      1:342/14        .cê 14 .íâ 96 00:20
 To   : Stephen Adams
 Subj : Nowhere Man
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
-> he showed any signs of recognition. I know a few people who WON'T
-> watch the show because it makes them feel uneasy; like they see too
-> much of themselves in the Tom Veil character!

Do you know anyone who just balks at the utter implausibility of what is
going on?

--- PCBoard (R) v15.21/100
 * Origin: Freddy's Place - Edm. AB - 28.8K (403) 456-4241 (1:342/14)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 212 of 225
 From : Bianca Wesslak                      1:132/152       .ÿò 12 .íâ 96 10:46
 To   : Chip Griffin
 Subj : Re: nuclear BS
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
From a woman with an overactive imagination.

 CG> MANY other hazards on a nuclear (or any submarine).  Just ask those who
 CG> know of the Thresher, Scorpion, and Bonefish if you have any doubt.

 CG> The first sank on sea trials when their emergency blow system valves
 CG> froze shut eliminating a possible recovery means from another problem.
 CG> The second sank for reasons unknown (although I have heard rumor that
 CG> the wreckage implied a weapons strike).
 CG> The third was scrapped after a crippling fire on board caused an
 CG> abandon ship while at sea.  They had to be towed in to port.  There
 CG> were three killed (the three who were driving while every one else
 CG> evacuated).  The cause: a battery fire.  Video footage of the aftermath
 CG> is impressive, see it if you get a chance.

 So what happened to the parts.  The question I am trying to get at is:  Did
 any of the whatever powers a nuclear sub, obviously nuclear energy, What
 contains that nuclear energy break up, and is it floating about the sea?
 Since you know so much about the nuclear submarines, I'll ask another
 question, you know anything of any of the waste that we dumped in the
 marinara trench??  I've heard rumors that we have dumped barrells of
 radiative waste down there, along with other stuff??

 CG> de Chip [N1MIE] President of TRAUG         quarry@q.continuum.net

 What is TRAUG??


... I inherited curiosity from my cat.  Why do you ask?
--- Blue Wave v2.12 [NR]
 * Origin: The Cereal Port BBS (OS/2) Rindge,NH 603-899-3335 (1:132/152)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 213 of 225
 From : Bianca Wesslak                      1:132/152       .ÿò 12 .íâ 96 11:02
 To   : Mark Jones
 Subj : VIRTUAL SEX
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
From a woman with an overactive imagination.

 MJ> ...but if virtual sex is indistinguishable from actual sex, your
 MJ> fiancee might be just as angry about your virtual infidelities as
 MJ> she'd be about a flesh-and-blood tryst.  Possibly more so--she
 MJ> probably can safely assume that no matter how much you drool over
 MJ> [insert starlet of your choice here], the chances of your actually
 MJ> sleeping with her in reality are pretty slim.  If she's available on a
 MJ> $19.95 rental disk, though....

 I think that falls in line with phone sex and would depend on the couple.

 MJ> And if you engage your taste for pain by sadistically tormenting
 MJ> virtual victims, are you still twisted psycho?  Is it still a vicious,
 MJ> evil thing to do?  Even if nobody is *really* hurt?  Even if you'd
 MJ> never, ever do it to a REAL person?
 MJ> I'd say:  yes, it is still sick.  Because you're engaging a taste
 MJ> for inflicting misery on others--even if those others don't exist.
 MJ> I'd also defend your right to do it since no *real* person is being
 MJ> harmed.  But I wouldn't care to associate with you much.

But how would you know that he particpated in twisted virtual sex?  Haven't
you ever had any violent thoughts.  This here would be the perfect arena to
act them out without getting criminally prosecuted, being guilty.  Perfect
to do when you are truly ticked off.  We all have a dark and twisted areas in
our psyche's, this would be a good therapy without having to pay high
exorbiant fee's at a psychotherapist office.  Getting back to the argument
of indulging in sadistically tormenting, you can't control someone's
imagination.  Haven't you ever wished someone a cruel and unusual
punishment?  If so are you not then participating in sadistically tomenting
behavior??

 MJ> -!- PPoint 1.78
 MJ>  ! Origin: Folcroft Sanitarium (hsmith@cure.com) (1:105/302.47)



... "How can anyone flunk sex education?"
--- Blue Wave v2.12 [NR]
 * Origin: The Cereal Port BBS (OS/2) Rindge,NH 603-899-3335 (1:132/152)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 214 of 225
 From : Channon Lang                        1:130/809       .îí 15 .íâ 96 14:37
 To   : Frank Swarbrick
 Subj : Re: Good Ole Riker...
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE 1.11+
From a dark bottomless pit,Frank Swarbrick screamed up to Channon Lang about
Good Ole Riker.....

 CL> I thought that was his voice....I don't usually get the chance to
 CL> read credits for anything anymore....I do good to even get to watch
 CL> the shows with my 8 months old these days. I think I have also seem
 CL> Frakes and his wife together on Deadly Games as well.

 FS> Ummm, I think you mean Lois & Clark.  I've seen every DG episode so
 FS> far, and no sign of Frakes that I can recall...  Though I wouldn't be
 FS> the least bit surprised to see him at some point.  After all, we've
 FS> seen Brent Spiner, LaVar Burton and Dwight Schultz on it.

 Hmmm, maybe that was it. I guess I just might be so used to seeing them
 together...well, you know, association and all that... Considering who
 created DG it certainly wouldn't surprise me at all to see him there.
 I wonder if ol' Leonard Nimoy will do a guest spot on the show....

 Channon


... The cost of living is going up, and the chance of living is going down
--- MachoEcho 0.5ñ
 * Origin: The State of Confusion * Arlington Tx * 817-274-1920 * (1:130/809)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 215 of 225
 From : Channon Lang                        1:130/809       .îí 15 .íâ 96 14:37
 To   : Robert Siemborski
 Subj : Re: Star Trek
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE 1.11+
From a dark bottomless pit,Robert Siemborski screamed up to Channon Lang about
Star Trek..

 > The episode that caught my attention is the one that had the "sex scene"
 > in it. I just happened to be channel surfing and those particular aliens
 > caught my attention. I just about died laughing at that one. I've been
 > hooked ever since.

 RS> If you liked that one, be on the lookout for what jms called the
 RS> "funniest scene to date on the series" in the first of the new block
 RS> of episodes. Something that Ivonova says in Sheriden's bedroom is
 RS> supposed to be really funny.  Take that for what you will.

 Hmmm, now THAT could be interesting....

 Channon


... As a computer, I find your faith in technology amusing.
--- MachoEcho 0.5ñ
 * Origin: The State of Confusion * Arlington Tx * 817-274-1920 * (1:130/809)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 216 of 225
 From : Channon Lang                        1:130/809       .îí 15 .íâ 96 14:37
 To   : Jeff Hancock
 Subj : Re: B5 -- Coincidence?
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE 1.11+
From a dark bottomless pit,Jeff Hancock screamed up to Star Hawk about B5 --
Coincidence?..

 JH> -=-
 JH> * Crazy-J * "What we demand is a total absence of solid facts."

 Did you ever see the TV shows of "Hitchhiker's Guide"? What a classic!

Channon
... Reports of my death have been greatly exaggerated.
--- MachoEcho 0.5ñ
 * Origin: The State of Confusion * Arlington Tx * 817-274-1920 * (1:130/809)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 217 of 225
 From : Dean Sweatman                       1:396/1030      .îí 15 .íâ 96 08:47
 To   : All
 Subj : New Orleans Vision Show
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12  93-0696
 * Crossposted from: TREK_VOYAGER

Well here it is Monday morning and I'm home again after a
weekend of fun and adventure.  The show was nice in it's own way
but it wasn't a con by any stretch.  I took Disk Doctor's old NEC
pc-8500 with the 300 baud built in modem with me and filled it's
32k of onboard memory with message traffic up fairly quickly ...
now all I have to do is figure out how to get it off that machine
and onto the boards.  I was able to get a connect at reunion
with it but nothing made sense on the screen I will have to try
to figure out what internal config to set up to make the
connections properly to upload the text files.

Babs and crew arrived on Friday evening and were installed at the
Holiday Inn by 6pm.  Getting ready for the con was the order of
the day/evening.  More on this later from the NEC messages.

We arrived at the Hyatt at 10am on Saturday Morning (an hour
early to check out the lay of the land and see if we could
register (we had reserved seating).  No Such Luck... There were
3 to 4 hundred people already in line when we arrived with no
one making any attempt to handle the crowd other than to get
them into a line and await the opening bell.

We grabbed a quick bite to eat and returned at 11am to find 2
ticket sellers trying to handle the crowd that filled most of
the 3rd floor of the Hyatt's meeting area.  There was also a
Model Search event, Financial event and Religious event all
booked into the meeting rooms on the 3rd floor but between 10am
and about 1pm there were lines backed up for the Visions event.
After 1pm the influx settled into a constant trickle for the
rest of the day.

Brent Spiner was a no-show due to some "illness" the lady that
plays Dax on DS9 took his place.  This was announced frequently
to the crowd awaiting entry and I do not know how many people
decided that they had been had and left but over all the event
seemed to be well attended.

Of the local Fan Community I saw members of Space Ship Earth,
The Porno-Partol, Krew Of The Enterprise, and the Klingon Assult
Group present.  The Vice-Chair of NOSF3, a large group from The
C-C-C crowd, and a couple of people from The Coast-con were
noted in the mass of humanity.  Number Six made the trek down
from Baton Rouge and seemed to have enjoyed the fray. When asked
at the "ticket" area as to how sales were going I heard that
over a thousand people had come through the doors on Saturday
prior to the main talk being delivered by "Dax" at 5:30 pm.

The schedule was shot from the opening bell with everything
running an hour later than the posted times in the program and
the event closing about 90 min later than the posted time on
Saturday.  Over all there were a lot of minor problems with
event that could have been avoided (the largest example was the
mess that was chronic at the door trying to process the people
that attended the event) but over-all it ran smoothly and most
of the people attending seemed to have enjoyed themselves.

The high point of the event for me was finding Johnny Crawford
(of the Micky Mouse Club and Rifle-Man) sitting at a table
signing photos.  This was unexpected and a delight to have had a
couple of short visits with him.  He was much older that I
expected (having not been seen in MANY years).  Mark Goddard (60
now) was interesting as was David Prowse (Watch for his upcoming
TALK-SHOW) and of course there was "DAX"... .

The high point was seeing and talking to old friends and
smoozing with the fen.  Over-all a B effort that could have been
a class A event if a bit more planning and effort had been made
by the PROFESSIONAL STAFF.

Fiawol



___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20 [NR]

--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12
 * Origin: Black Tower BBS!  (1:396/1030.0)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 218 of 225
 From : Nicolai Shapero                     1:102/524       .cê 14 .íâ 96 13:27
 To   : Mark Jones
 Subj : VIRTUAL SEX
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Jan 09 22:48>, Mark Jones (1:105/302.47) wrote to J.T. Smith:

 MJ>   I'd say:  yes, it is still sick.  Because you're engaging a
 MJ>taste
 MJ>for inflicting misery on others--even if those others don't
 MJ>exist.
 MJ>   I'd also defend your right to do it since no *real* person is
 MJ>being
 MJ>harmed.  But I wouldn't care to associate with you much.

On the other hand,  the person who uses a simulation to express his desire to
inflict pain on others is at least doing us all the courtesy of not inflicting
it on real others...so...is he/she QUITE as bad as the "real thing"?  I'd say
not...

-- Nicolai Shapero, the Mad Russian Sysop of StormGate Aerie


--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 219 of 225
 From : Nicolai Shapero                     1:102/524       .cê 14 .íâ 96 13:30
 To   : Mark Jones
 Subj : nuclear
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Jan 07 13:22>, Mark Jones (1:105/302.47) wrote to Brion Lienhart:

 MJ>So make the radioactive waste blocks six feet on a side and stack
 MJ>them
 MJ>like pyramids.  The morons can play on and around them all they
 MJ>want,
 MJ>but they aren't going to strew them around the countryside.

Why stop at blocks that are only six feet on a side?  If you could do it, why
not make 'em twenty feet on a side.  That way there's no possibility of anyone
moving 'em once they're set in place (especially if you bolt 'em together and
then cover the lot with concrete).  Hmmm...our own form of the pyramids, with a
curse that really would work on grave robbers dumb enough to try and loot
radioactive waste facilities...

-- Nicolai Shapero, the Mad Russian Sysop of StormGate Aerie


--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 220 of 225
 From : Nicolai Shapero                     1:102/524       .cê 14 .íâ 96 13:33
 To   : Bianca Wesslak
 Subj : nuclear BS
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Jan 09 21:28>, Bianca Wesslak (1:132/152) wrote to Don Dellmann:

 BW> Who are most of their attacks aimed at, If I am not mistaken,
 BW>they are
 BW> aimed at corporations.

Corporations?  Hmm...seems to me that there's no such thing, really, as a
corporation.  There are people who have, for one reason or another, banded
together.  But if there are people working a site, and Greenpeace
"commando-types" should FOR WHATEVER REASON attack that site, it will be people
who will get hurt, not some anonymous, faceless "corporation".

 BW>As for their methods, in a weird way I
 BW>kinda
 BW>  agree with them.  Those trees and plants out there are
 BW>beautiful entities.
 BW>  They need to be protected.

I tend to support most of what Greenpeace does, but placing trees and plants in
the "beautiful entity" category, to be protected AT THE EXPENSE OF HUMAN LIFE
goes just a wee bit too far for me.  Once you step over the line, you are
associated in my mind with eco-terrorists.  And when you start to shoot up
people to protect plants, be prepared to be regarded as a terrorist, with all
that that implies.

 BW> wind, solar, geothermal, and hydroelectric, like niagra falls.  I don't
 BW> like the though of using stuff that can level cities and leave behind
 BW> destruction and death even years later.  It can infilltrate  ground

Then go back to living in the caves.  Fossil fuel is dangerous, hydroelectric
and geothermal is inadequate (and carry their own dangers), and solar has more
drawbacks than can be gone in to here (unless/until we set up SPSSs, at which
point we get in to the problems of broadcast power...)

 BW>I am pretty
 BW> sure there has got to be a way to make electric power in which
 BW>we are so
 BW> bleeping dependent on in conjunction with the enviroment.

If you can come up with one, by all means do.  There are lots of people who'd
love to see some such a method implemented.  But it must be economically
practical (you must get more out of the system than you put in in effort
building it).  Cheap safe power supply?  If you can develop one, you can make
billions...

 BW> do they not which when turning makes electricity.  I'm sure if
 BW>we had a bunch
 BW> of people thinking of safe, and enviromentally sound ways to
 BW>make it they
 BW> could come up with something.

People have been trying to do just that for decades.  The best that they've come
up with so far that still provides the necessary energy at a reasonable cost is
nuclear.  There ain't no such thing as a free lunch, fair lady.

 BW>Many people would disagree with you there.  native americans who
 BW>still believe
 BW>in the old ways would.  Chief seattle would.  I'm pretty sure
 BW>they're are
 BW>other ecclectic people,  especially the native tribal people who
 BW>still
 BW>utilize their old ways.

The only real difference between primitive societies and ours in this respect is
that we understand what we ARE doing to the environment and are actively taking
steps (intelligent ones) to fix up our mess.  The fertile crescent was not made
in to a desert in modern times, remember...

-- Nicolai Shapero, the Mad Russian Sysop of StormGate Aerie

--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 221 of 225
 From : Nicolai Shapero                     1:102/524       .cê 14 .íâ 96 13:47
 To   : Phill Ash
 Subj : Nuclear
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Jan 11 06:51>, Phill Ash (1:275/160) wrote to David Johnston:

 PA>        The most common human mutation over the past 30 or so
 PA>years has
 PA>        not been very beneficial to the specie as a whole.

 PA>                It's called "cancer"


Cancer is not a new mutational problem, nor is it a recent one.  We've had
cancers for a LONG time...

-- Nicolai Shapero, the Mad Russian Sysop of StormGate Aerie

--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 222 of 225
 From : Nicolai Shapero                     1:102/524       .cê 14 .íâ 96 13:52
 To   : Ken Mayes
 Subj : Re: nuclear BS
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Jan 12 07:35>, Ken Mayes (1:393/7@fido) wrote to All:

 KM>        To me one of the greatest dangers of nuclear power is
 KM>over dependence on it. We already rely far too heavily on it.

 KM>        The law of averages say that eventually there will be a
 KM>major accident here in the U.S. Not like the little one at TMI,
 KM>but a big Chernobyl style release of radiation.

That is utter and unmitigated horse hockey.

We have a choice -- go back to a lower level of tech (and watch a lot of people
die of starvation...AND WATCH THE ENVIRONMENT GET A LOT NASTIER FOR THE
FORSEEABLE FUTURE) or use nuclear power until a better alternative comes along
(my bet is on SPSSs and broadcast power, but that's at least another 30-50 years
off in the most optimistic scenario).

-- Nicolai Shapero, the Mad Russian Sysop of StormGate Aerie

--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 223 of 225
 From : Nicolai Shapero                     1:102/524       .cê 14 .íâ 96 13:54
 To   : Kevin Ahearn
 Subj : Re: VIRTUAL SEX
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Jan 12 19:42>, Kevin Ahearn (1:109/104) wrote to Frank Glover:

 FG>    Me, I can see it now; "Computer, run program `Madonna1, version 3."

 KA>Madonna?  YEEEEEESH.  For your sake, I hope the program
 KA>crashes...

Think of what it might mean, though, to be linked in to the computer when that
happens.  Brings on a whole new meaning to the term "head crash"...

-- Nicolai Shapero, the Mad Russian Sysop of StormGate Aerie

--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 224 of 225
 From : Nicolai Shapero                     1:102/524       .cê 14 .íâ 96 13:56
 To   : Mark Jones
 Subj : nuclear BS
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Jan 11 23:28>, Mark Jones (1:105/302.47) wrote to Bianca Wesslak:

 MJ>Caves can be *very* cold sometimes.  And ask submariners about
 MJ>the
 MJ>danger of fire in "nonflammable" areas like steel submarines....

Get steel hot enough, and it will burn.  A class D fire (metal fire) is a REALLY
unpleasant thing to deal with.  (I don't even want to THINK about the problems
of dealing with a class D fire on board a sub.)

-- Nicolai Shapero, the Mad Russian Sysop of StormGate Aerie

--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 225 of 225
 From : Nicolai Shapero                     1:102/524       .cê 14 .íâ 96 13:58
 To   : Philip Crookes
 Subj : NUCLEAR
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Jan 13 04:16>, Philip Crookes (2:2433/204) wrote to Nicolai Shapero:

 > Barring a complete collapse of our civilization, I imagine
 > that the purple trefoil will remain a good warning.  If it's

 PC>It would not be hard to suppos ethat a purple trefoil could be
 PC>interpreted as meaning...

 PC>playground
 PC>sex parlour
 PC>lunch
 PC>safety
 PC>friends

But barring a collapse of our civilization, everyone would remember that it
REALLY meant "radiation...hazard!"

-- Nicolai Shapero, the Mad Russian Sysop of StormGate Aerie

--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [10] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 1 of 185
 From : Eric Reinholt                       1:2604/309      .cê 14 .íâ 96 09:04
 To   : Chris Ogniben
 Subj : Star Trek and others
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 On 01-10-96 CHRIS OGNIBEN wrote to ERIC REINHOLT...

 CO>   I dunno man, i have to think about it.

 Think about what?  You didn't quote, Chris!  Let me guess . . .
 fan fiction?

 CO>  And by the way, how are you able to spend so much time here and other
 CO> places, that i see your name.

 I don't spend that much time online, as a matter of fact I
 lament the fact that I don't have the time I want for messaging
 and other writing!  Just a quick typist I guess.  <smile>

 CO>  You should try jungle, and get hooked up to the star trek majornet
 CO> forum, since i really do a lot of posting and replying in there.  But,
 CO> that is your choice.

 Well I would if time weren't a factor.  I used to be a big Star
 Trek fan (and I still am, I have just about everything on video
 tape and literally thousands of dollars in Star Trek
 merchandise collected over my thirty odd years) but now-a-days
 I've devoted my Science Fiction time to reading the established
 classics (just finished reading the play "R.U.R."), writing
 about Science Fiction (mainly Babylon 5 for the InterNet
 magazine "The Zocalo"), writing a few short stories and working
 on the one thing I have official permission from . . . someone
 . . . about.  (Sorry about the ambiguity but I don't want
 anyone to know about this just yet.)  Add all this together
 atop the time required for my job and the continuing education
 required to KEEP my job and you'll notice that I don't have
 much free time . . . which bothers my wife no end! <g>

 CO>  Ummm, i just wonder how you get to spend so much time everywhere,
 CO> since i see your name a lot.  The only other time i don't see your
 CO> name, is when all the places are dead, and your name is just not
 CO> around, indicating you havn't been near your computer for quite a
 CO> long time.

 Actually . . . I have ALWAYS been here . . . [Kosh mode off]

 <grin>

 Yeah, sometimes real life intrudes on my BBS time . . .

 Say, Chris.  Why don't you watch something interesting like
 "Strange Luck" or "The X-Files" and get some Fan Fic ideas
 there?  They've got some whacky and wild Sci Fi ideas there!

 ** Eric **

 * OFFLINE 1.54 * "The Babylon Project was our last, best hope for peace...it f
..................


--- WM v3.10/93-0747
 * Origin: Plain Brown Wrapper BBS-Cresskill NJ.(201)569-6685  (1:2604/309)

Ä [10] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 2 of 185
 From : Eric Reinholt                       1:2604/309      .cê 14 .íâ 96 11:12
 To   : Frank Glover
 Subj : Re: Nuclear
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 On 01-11-96 FRANK GLOVER wrote to MARK JONES...

 MJ>  the planet with better-suited descendents.  (I don't know about
 MJ>  anyone else, but *I* need glasses.  And I'd be dead if not for
 MJ>  existence

 FG>    Ever seen the Twilight Zone episode with Burgess Merideth as a man
 FG> who simply wished to be left alone to read? Then he finds himself the
 FG> only survivor of a nuclear attack, but the libraries are intact?

 FG>    Then he breaks his glasses....?

 "Time Enough at Last"

 A true classic.  It makes me want to commit suicide every time
 I watch the thing . . . but I can't turn it off either.  It's a
 perennial favorite of mine.

 ** Eric **

 * OFFLINE 1.54 * Babylon 5 founded (Dawn of the Third Age of Mankind)
.........


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 * Origin: Plain Brown Wrapper BBS-Cresskill NJ.(201)569-6685  (1:2604/309)

Ä [10] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 3 of 185
 From : Eric Reinholt                       1:2604/309      .cê 14 .íâ 96 11:32
 To   : Nicolai Shapero
 Subj : EM Spectra
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 On 01-11-96 NICOLAI SHAPERO wrote to CHIP GRIFFIN...

 CG>Gamma is a particle wave similar to light (but higher energy and
 CG>different wave length).  Your microwave emits these to cook your food.

 NS> I thought that microwaves used a somewhat different range of the
 NS> electromagnetic spectrum.  As in, radio band?

 You are very correct.  Gamma particles are MUCH more powerful
 than mere microwaves.  In the ancient days of Microwave
 broadcasting, Army engineers used to step in front of Microwave
 transmitters (in Alaska) just to get warm.  Dangerous practice
 but no where near as dangerous as stepping in front of a gamma
 source!  That's radiation therapy!

 Here's a quick list of groupings of Electromagnetic Spectrum:

 Wavelengths of the Electromagnetic Spectrum
 ---------------------------------------------------------------
                  wavelength   frequency   photon
                  (cm)         (sec^-1)    energy
                                         (eV)

 Cosmic ray       3x10^-22     10^32       4x10^17
   photons        3x10^-20     10^30       4x10^15
                  3x10^-18     10^28       4x10^13
                  3x10^-16     10^26       4x10^11
                  3x10^-14     10^24       4x10^9
                  3x10^-12     10^22       4x10^7
 Gamma Rays       3x10^-10     10^20       4x10^5
 X-Rays           3x10^-8      10^18       4x10^3
 Ultraviolet-     3x10^-6      10^16       40
  visible light
 Infrared         3x10^-4      10^14       0.4
 Microwaves       3x10^-2      10^12       4x10^-3
 Radar            3            10^10       4x10^-5
 UHF, VHF, FM     300          10^8        4x10^-7
  shortwave, AM   3x10^4       10^6        4x10^-9
  radio
 Longwave Radio   3x10^6       10^4        4x10^-11
                  3x10^8       10^2        4x10^-13

 Eric Reinholt, R.T.

 * OFFLINE 1.54 * Babylon 5 rule #2: NO ONE is what they seem...
...............................................................................


--- WM v3.10/93-0747
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Ä [10] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 4 of 185
 From : Eric Reinholt                       1:2604/309      .cê 14 .íâ 96 11:36
 To   : Chris Ogniben
 Subj : dead games
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 On 01-10-96 CHRIS OGNIBEN wrote to ALL...

 CO>   Hey is anyone watching Dead Games in here, and if your a fan, and
 CO> seen all the new episodes till now.  Let's hook up in here and start
 CO> talking about it.

 Um, I think that's "Deadly Games" you want there, Chris.

 I'm afraid I don't watch it, myself.

 ** Eric **

 * OFFLINE 1.54 * IHIWHDT -  "I Hate It When He Does That"
...............................................................................


--- WM v3.10/93-0747
 * Origin: Plain Brown Wrapper BBS-Cresskill NJ.(201)569-6685  (1:2604/309)

Ä [10] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 5 of 185
 From : Eric Reinholt                       1:2604/309      .cê 14 .íâ 96 17:20
 To   : Frank Swarbrick
 Subj : Prisoner movie
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 On 01-11-96 FRANK SWARBRICK wrote to ALL...

 STOP!  (Which was also the name of a proposed movie which
 McGoohan was hoping to produce around the time of the end of
 "The Prisoner.")

 FS> Dunno if anyone's posted this yet...  I read an article in the paper
 FS> today that said that Patrick MacGoohan has signed on to write and
 FS> produce a motion picture based on his old tv series The Prisoner.  He
 FS> won't play the main character, but he may play another role.

 I'm afraid that no matter how this pans out, McGoohan will
 always remain both Johnny Drake and Number Six to me!

 FS> Personally, I'm not sure how well the show would translate to the
 FS> modern silver screen, but with MacGoohan (is that right?) being
 FS> responsible for it there's certainly hope.  We shall see...

 Modern screen?  With the success of tribute/spin offs like
 "Nowhere Man" and "Babylon 5"?  It seems that there's more of
 "us" out there than I would have thought.  I hope it does
 justice to the original.  The Prisoner most definitely
 influenced how I thought about such concepts as "The
 Individual" and "Self-Identity."

 ** Eric **

 * OFFLINE 1.54 * First Sinclair, now Vir.  Does Minbar orbit a black hole?
......................................


--- WM v3.10/93-0747
 * Origin: Plain Brown Wrapper BBS-Cresskill NJ.(201)569-6685  (1:2604/309)

Ä [10] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 6 of 185
 From : Chris Thurman                       1:141/415       .cê 14 .íâ 96 13:50
 To   : Nicolai Shapero
 Subj : Science Fiction
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Listen up buddy, what I wrote concerned science fiction, and it was a hell of a
lot more interesting that anything else that was being posted.  I understand
that this is not the dating game, but I wrote something that people like to
read, not "do you like star trek, what do you think spock's middle name is."
That garbage put me to bed, if you don't want the dating game then livin up your
boring science fiction talk!

--- Maximus 3.01
 * Origin: The Wacko Board (1:141/415)

Ä [10] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 7 of 185
 From : Chris Thurman                       1:141/415       .cê 14 .íâ 96 13:53
 To   : Frank Glover
 Subj : Re: Science Fiction
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
The reason I didn't put the area code is because if you don't live in Ct. then
don't call him.  I don't think that you should worry about what I wrote unless
you're gay.  Of course he didn't want his number plastered up, I said that when
I wrote the bulletin.  I was playin a joke on him so mind your own business.


--- Maximus 3.01
 * Origin: The Wacko Board (1:141/415)

Ä [10] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 8 of 185
 From : Chris Carter                        1:105/290.23    .cê 14 .íâ 96 10:54
 To   : Mark Jones
 Subj : Nuclear
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On (12 Jan 96) Mark Jones wrote to Phill Ash...

 MJ> And I believe cancers have been around for a very long time.
 MJ> But no doubt the vast majority of cancers throughout history
 MJ> went undiagnosed.  Or misdiagnosed.

Absolutely.  And besides, it's so much easier to say, "A pox be upon
you!" rather than, "A carcinogeous melanoma be upon you!" ;~)

Chris - carter@teleport.com


... "Pneumatic Tire is rounding into shape."

--- PPoint 2.00
 * Origin: Grid Epsilon Coords. 105x290x23 (1:105/290.23)

Ä [10] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 9 of 185
 From : Frank Swarbrick                     1:104/825       .ÿò 12 .íâ 96 18:35
 To   : Channon Lang
 Subj : Re: Good Ole Riker...
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12  92-0022
On 01-11-96  05:26 my Very Good Friend Channon Lang said:

 CL> From a dark bottomless pit,The Raven screamed up to Robert Lidgren
 CL> about Good Ole Riker.....

 TR> He guested on a recent episode of "Lois and Clark", as well as
 TR> having directed half a dozen episodes of DS9, Voyager, L&C, and a bunch
 TR> of other shows.  He also regularly does voice work for Disney's
 TR> "Gargoyles" cartoon series.

 CL> I thought that was his voice....I don't usually get the chance to
 CL> read credits for anything anymore....I do good to even get to watch
 CL> the shows with my 8 months old these days. I think I have also seem
 CL> Frakes and his wife together on Deadly Games as well.

Ummm, I think you mean Lois & Clark.  I've seen every DG episode so
far, and no sign of Frakes that I can recall...  Though I wouldn't be
the least bit surprised to see him at some point.  After all, we've
seen Brent Spiner, LaVar Burton and Dwight Schultz on it.

        Frank

... No one can hear when you're Screaming in Digital!
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12
 * Origin: The Bailey Information Exchange BBS, 28.8k v.fc  (1:104/825.0)

Ä [10] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 10 of 185
 From : Otto Cordray                        1:106/1393      .cê 14 .íâ 96 10:35
 To   : Don Dellmann
 Subj : nuclear BS
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
The word "economics" was mentioned in this discussion. Good.

In architecture school several profs taught me that just about anything can
be built competently and safely IF the builders are willing to spend the money.
My experience in the engineering industry (power plants, though not nuclear)
says that the builders generally are NOT willing to do that.

Just to keep somewhat on topic, a quote from the movie "Capricorn One" applies.
Hal Holbrook (playing a NASA exec) says,"The good folks over at ConAmalgamate
made a little too much profit. We found out that it [the life support system
on the Earth-to-Mars spaceship] wouldn't work." (That may not be word for word,
but its close.)

Aside from my anti-executroid feelings, there's another important factor. The
lifespan of the parts that actually physically generate the electricity
(rotors, turbines, etc.) is shorter than the rest of the plant. However, I
have heard that some new developments have been made in that area.

-Otto

--- Maximus/2 2.01wb
 * Origin: The Round Table, BBS of Gulf Coast Mensa * 922-1393 (1:106/1393)

Ä [10] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 11 of 185
 From : Todd Sullivan                       1:202/720.3     .óá 13 .íâ 96 20:35
 To   : Steven Sullivan
 Subj : NUCLEAR BS
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
While substituting for Q, Steven Sullivan took extreme delight in saying to me,
"You'll do anything I say?"  I quailed when the words "NUCLEAR BS" were uttered.

 SS> Agreed and seconded.  To bring the subject back on topic, Heinlein
 SS> makes
 SS> the same point in a story where a woman becomes president.  (My
 SS> apologies, the name of the short escapes me.)  As an addendum, "JW",
 SS> look up the number of people suffering from smog in LA right now, or
 SS> towards _Blowups Happen_.  I'm a proponent of nuclear power; it's hard
 SS> to envisage a future where there isn't nuclear power, and the way to
 SS> get
 SS> to SAFE nuclear power is to work our way through the pitfalls of unsafe
 SS> nuclear power.

I don't recall the story, either, but you're right about the points made.

My slant is from being a Navy Nuclear Power candidate back in 1980.  I *know* we
can have safe reactors; Admiral Rickover demanded nothing less for his subs.

Todd Sullivan

... Choose your Taglines carefully; they tell others a lot about you.

-*- ASTG 1.9

--- Spot 1.3a Unregistered
 * Origin: Todd's Spot in the Continuum (1:202/720.3)

Ä [10] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 12 of 185
 From : Todd Sullivan                       1:202/720.3     .óá 13 .íâ 96 20:40
 To   : Jhereg
 Subj : elfquest
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
While substituting for Q, Jhereg took extreme delight in saying to Longhair,
"You'll do anything I say?"  Longhair quailed when the words "elfquest" were
uttered.

 Lo>> There's more EQ out there now then there ever has been. Enjoy.

 J>  Like Barton, wasn't aware there was this much still out here in this
 J>  day and age. Is this all drawn and written by the Pini's or are they
 J>  done by other folks.

What was mentioned before is.  Last I heard, Marvel Comics was doing an EQ
comic, and the Pinis were keeping a close watch, or were being consulted
regularly.

Todd Sullivan

... This sentense contains three errurs.

-*- ASTG 1.9

--- Spot 1.3a Unregistered
 * Origin: Todd's Spot in the Continuum (1:202/720.3)

Ä [10] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 13 of 185
 From : Todd Sullivan                       1:202/720.3     .óá 13 .íâ 96 20:43
 To   : Bill Clements
 Subj : NUCLEAR
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
While substituting for Q, Bill Clements took extreme delight in saying to All,
"You'll do anything I say?"  All quailed when the words "NUCLEAR" were uttered.

 BC>         Most of the discussion in this thread; and resulting
 BC> threadlets; was addressed in "Fusion Without Ex-Lax" first
 BC> published in "GALAXY" October 1976 (C)opyright by UPD Publishing
 BC> Corporation Inc. and reprinted in "A STEP FARTHER OUT" (C)opyright
 BC> 1979 by Jerry Pournelle, Ph.D..
 BC>         Acquire this book; READ IT COVER TO COVER; then address
 BC> any further questions, comments, etc., to Dr. Pournelle.

Doctor Pournelle has no worries from me; I was simply trying to dispel several
incorrect perceptions about fission.

Either way, we can't rely on things as they are now; the good thing about
science fiction is that we're being told that it doesn't have to stay as things
are.

Todd Sullivan

... Beware of the Splut!

-*- ASTG 1.9

--- Spot 1.3a Unregistered
 * Origin: Todd's Spot in the Continuum (1:202/720.3)

Ä [10] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 14 of 185
 From : Todd Sullivan                       1:202/720.3     .óá 13 .íâ 96 20:47
 To   : Nicolai Shapero
 Subj : nuclear BS
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
While substituting for Q, Nicolai Shapero took extreme delight in saying to Chip
Griffin, "You'll do anything I say?"  Chip quailed when the words "nuclear BS"
were uttered.

 NS> On <Jan 08 14:33>, Chip Griffin (1:320/301) wrote to Bianca Wesslak:

 CG>> Gamma is a particle wave similar to light (but higher energy and
 CG>> different
 CG>> wave length).  Your microwave emits these to cook your food.

 NS> I thought that microwaves used a somewhat different range of the
 NS> electromagnetic spectrum.  As in, radio band?

Gamma is in the high-EM area, beyond ultraviolet, and is measured in centimeters
at its lowest frequencies, Nicolai.  Radio is far below infra-red, and is
measured in meters.

Todd Sullivan

... Warning on bug killer:  "Do not spray in face."

-*- ASTG 1.9

--- Spot 1.3a Unregistered
 * Origin: Todd's Spot in the Continuum (1:202/720.3)

Ä [10] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 15 of 185
 From : Todd Sullivan                       1:202/720.3     .óá 13 .íâ 96 20:52
 To   : Kay Shapero
 Subj : nuclear BS
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
While substituting for Q, Kay Shapero took extreme delight in saying to Chip
Griffin, "You'll do anything I say?"  Chip quailed when the words "nuclear BS"
were uttered.

 CG>> Actually I can think of one example where you are wrong, and
 CG>> days) too fast or something and had a "steam explosion".  All

 KS> How's that a counter example?  Your very post indicates that you know
 KS> the difference between a steam explosion (which is mechanical in nature
 KS> and can happen in just about any kind of power plant that uses hot
 KS> water) and a nuclear explosion, which is what the Raven appears to have
 KS> been talking about.

I thought this had been cleared up.

Reactors use Uranium 238, which doesn't fission well; Weapons use U-235 and
Plutonium 240 and 241, all of which fission quite well.  The processing of each
uses different methods, plus the fact that reactors are built for steady and
reliable output, not the uncontrolled blast of a bomb.

The methods and motives behind each are mutually exclusive.

Todd Sullivan

... "Ever notice how irons have a setting for _permanent_ press?" -Wright

-*- ASTG 1.9

--- Spot 1.3a Unregistered
 * Origin: Todd's Spot in the Continuum (1:202/720.3)

Ä [10] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 16 of 185
 From : Chris Ogniben                       1:2604/568      .ÿò 12 .íâ 96 12:58
 To   : Tisha Mcgary
 Subj : Startrek Voyager
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

   They had a new episode, or should i say a past episode, where these
aliens have went back to earth, and met Chacotay's people.. Thus giving
Chacotay that mark on his forhead.  He also met those same aliens.


--- WM v3.11/93-0947
 * Origin: Waterside BBS - NJ - (201) 641-5375 28.8k  (1:2604/568)

Ä [10] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 17 of 185
 From : Chris Ogniben                       1:2604/568      .ÿò 12 .íâ 96 12:58
 To   : Robert Siemborski
 Subj : Re: NOWHERE MAN
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

  I think Nowhere Man stinks, and that is why i don't watch it


--- WM v3.11/93-0947
 * Origin: Waterside BBS - NJ - (201) 641-5375 28.8k  (1:2604/568)

Ä [10] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 18 of 185
 From : Chris Ogniben                       1:2604/568      .ÿò 12 .íâ 96 12:59
 To   : Nicolai Shapero
 Subj : Re: More faves...
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

   There isn't anything else other than Democracy.. So there is no
change, unless you want to go to communism, which i don't care if we do.


--- WM v3.11/93-0947
 * Origin: Waterside BBS - NJ - (201) 641-5375 28.8k  (1:2604/568)

Ä [10] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 19 of 185
 From : Robert Siemborski                   1:2604/214      .cê 14 .íâ 96 21:57
 To   : David Johnston
 Subj : Re: Nowhere Man
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 >Do you know anyone who just balks at the utter implausibility of what is
 >going on?

It doesn't matter if they don't see it as implausable or not.  Just ignore that
part and enjoy the show.  It's not meant to be completely realistic. If it was
it wouldn't exist because the situation is completely implausable.

Enjoy it!  That's what it's there for.

- Rob -

--- SLMAIL v4.5a  (#1409)
 * Origin: Bits 'N Bytes BBS - Leonia, NJ - (201) 346-1661 - 28.8k Connections!
(1:2604/214)

Ä [10] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 20 of 185
 From : Ron Taylor                          1:394/4         .ÿò 12 .íâ 96 19:41
 To   : All
 Subj : star wars holiday special
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Does anybody out there have a tape of THE STAR WARS HOLIDAY SPECIAL???????????
I really want to see it cause it has the first apperance of everyones favorite
interplanetary assain !!!!!!!!!BOBA FETT
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
PLEASE respond if you can help.
thanx
---
 * Origin: The EDGE, Hammond_LA *1-504-345-3797* (1:394/4)

Ä [10] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 21 of 185
 From : Otto Cordray                        1:106/1393      .îí 15 .íâ 96 22:07
 To   : All
 Subj : Prisoner movie
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 FS> Dunno if anyone's posted this yet...  I read an article in the paper
 FS> produce a motion picture based on his old tv series The Prisoner.  He
 FS> won't play the main character, but he may play another role.

 FS> Personally, I'm not sure how well the show would translate to the
 FS> modern silver screen...

I'll just wait and see as to who plays what. I was extremely skeptical when
I heard about plans for the movie of "The Fugitive." That one turned out
okay.

As long as its better than "Boris and Natasha" I'll probably give it
a look. I would like to see as many of the actors who were in the series who are
still around pop up in one form or another just for grins.

-Otto



--- Maximus/2 2.01wb
 * Origin: The Round Table, BBS of Gulf Coast Mensa * 922-1393 (1:106/1393)

Ä [10] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 22 of 185
 From : Kevin Ahearn                        1:109/611       .îí 15 .íâ 96 23:54
 To   : Nicolai Shapero
 Subj : Re: VIRTUAL SEX
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 In a Message to Kevin Ahearn <01-14-96 13:54> Nicolai Shapero Wrote:

 NS>> On <Jan 12 19:42>, Kevin Ahearn (1:109/104) wrote to Frank Glover:
 NS>>
 NS>>  FG>    Me, I can see it now; "Computer, run program `Madonna1,
 NS>> version 3."
 NS>>
 NS>>  KA>Madonna?  YEEEEEESH.  For your sake, I hope the program
 NS>>  KA>crashes...
 NS>>
 NS>> Think of what it might mean, though, to be linked in to the computer
 NS>> when that happens.  Brings on a whole new meaning to the term "head
 NS>> crash"...

Hmmm...it could result in some severe hardware damage...

--Kevin

.NOTE: IceEdit 1.60 [Eval]
--- QuickBBS 2.80 GoldBase (Zeta-1)
 * Origin: AD Message BBS/10th Year Online! (703)998-2958 (1:109/611@FIDONET)

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 Msg  : 23 of 185
 From : David Johnston                      1:342/14        .îí 15 .íâ 96 00:21
 To   : Mark Jones
 Subj : Nuclear
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
-> The problem with your plan--learning to hunt and hang out on a
-> reservation--is that about 200,000,000 other people will be having
-> much the same idea.  And the land can't possibly support even a tiny
-> fraction of that many.  Remember--the native american population was

Of course it can't.  But I'm losing track of your point.  If electricity
magically stops working, many people would die, (but on the bright side
there will be a lot more agricultural jobs).  What does is the supposed
significance of this?

--- PCBoard (R) v15.21/100
 * Origin: Freddy's Place - Edm. AB - 28.8K (403) 456-4241 (1:342/14)

Ä [10] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 24 of 185
 From : David Johnston                      1:342/14        .îí 15 .íâ 96 00:34
 To   : Lawrence E Dunlap
 Subj : Re: Tv And Sf
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
-> MH>The rule is the thirty-five year-old construction worker who
-> watches MH>American Gladiators and Cops. He's got a wife who's five
-> or more MH>years younger than him, six kids, a pickup, a bad-tempered
-> Doberman, MH>and an eighteen-year-old college cheerleader he's
-> fooling around with MH>on the side.
->
-> My father's generation fought WWII, his brothers fought Korea and
-> Vidtnam so *this* kind of Baby Boomer could be free to be such a low
-> breed of life *just* described?

You got a problem with that?


-> Any civillized 21st Century culture cannot exist with such poorly
-> bred citizen of this level of ethical values and literacy in the
-> sciences as portrayed by the composite man just presented here.
-> For one thing, in democracies such a man must be currently literate
-> in the sciences to effectively vote intelligently on scientific
-> issues.

When did scientific issues become particularly a matter of popular
vote?

-> Why does my guts suspect a educated and ethical population might not
-> buy so much nonrenewable consumables or docilely accept this level of
-> mediocracy in entertainment?

I am educated.  I hope I am ethical.  But I enjoy mediocre
entertainment.

--- PCBoard (R) v15.21/100
 * Origin: Freddy's Place - Edm. AB - 28.8K (403) 456-4241 (1:342/14)

Ä [10] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 25 of 185
 From : Chris Myers                         1:2613/313      .cê 14 .íâ 96 09:02
 To   : Nicolai Shapero
 Subj : Re: Star Trek - up and co
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Hi.  I am a new "kid" on this system, I just wanted to say I agree that
the new shows you mentioned are certainly equal to competing with Star
Trek.

That Alien Nation Movie you mentioned was pretty good and I am really
getting into Space:Above and Beyond.  I really liked Babylon 5 but I can
find it broadcast on any of the local (Rochester) stations.  I cancelled
cable because it wasn't worth $30/ month to watch TV.

I've been disappointed the last couple weeks that Voyager was rerun and
I missed DS9.

--- QScan/PCB v1.17b / 01-0406
 * Origin: Knight Moves - Rochester,NY 716-865-2106 1:2613/313 (1:2613/313)

Ä [10] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 26 of 185
 From : Frank Glover                        1:2613/477      .cê 14 .íâ 96 20:06
 To   : Christian Raven
 Subj : Re: VIRTUAL SEX
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ


CR>  that teaches us that these are sick.  I'm not going to sit here and
CR>  seriously condone sexual sadism, but if it's all part of the male
CR>  psyche then perhaps crimes could be prevented through VR sex, eh?

   Or explored as a psychiatric tool. (It's already been applied to treat those
with a fear of heights.)

   Or...as a conditioning/brainwashing tool. Which brings us back to Brainstorm,
and a Next Generation episode where the Romulans captured Geordi, and fed him
selected inputs through his Visor connections....

   Frank


--- QuickBBS 2.80 GoldBase (Zeta-1)
 * Origin: The Matrix Data Bank BBS, Rochester, Ny (1:2613/477)

Ä [10] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 27 of 185
 From : Frank Glover                        1:2613/477      .cê 14 .íâ 96 20:11
 To   : David Durgee
 Subj : Re: Virtual reality issues
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

DD>  I can see where this kind of use of virtual reality could be fine in
DD>  a
DD>  theraputic setting, to deal with impulses and work out frustrations.
DD>  It
DD>  could also be put to good use in training exercises for dangerous
DD>  situations. I can also see it put to use in exploring environments
DD>  hostile
DD>  to human life.  But when it goes out of control it can become a
DD>  breeding
DD>  ground of all manner of evil.
DD>

   Yep. Like technology in general, a double-edged sword. (Consider the recent
case of the net fantasies written about a real person. A matter of degree, not
kind. And consider those who would react by censoring *everything* electronic.
But that's a debate for another place...)

   Frank


--- QuickBBS 2.80 GoldBase (Zeta-1)
 * Origin: The Matrix Data Bank BBS, Rochester, Ny (1:2613/477)

Ä [10] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 28 of 185
 From : Frank Glover                        1:2613/477      .cê 14 .íâ 96 20:14
 To   : David Durgee
 Subj : Re: nuclear
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

DD>  To tie this back into the Science Fiction topic of the area I read a
DD>  story
DD>  in Analog a few years back where they diverted the output of a SPS to
DD>  form a
DD>  "hot spot" in the ocean.  As the microwaves were absorbed in the
DD>  first few
DD>  inches of water this worked, allowing them to steer a hurricane away
DD>  from
DD>  the coast.  Whether this particular application is practical or not
DD>  it gives
DD>  us something to think about.

   Those following this thread may also want to read S.M. Stirling's `Power'
anthology, and `Fallen Angels' by Niven, Pournelle and Stirling.

   Frank


--- QuickBBS 2.80 GoldBase (Zeta-1)
 * Origin: The Matrix Data Bank BBS, Rochester, Ny (1:2613/477)

Ä [10] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 29 of 185
 From : Phill Ash                           1:275/160       .îí 15 .íâ 96 07:25
 To   : Mark Jones
 Subj : tv and sf
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE 1.11+

 MJ> Keep in mind that they have no freedom of speech in Britain.  You're
 MJ> allowed to say only as much as the gummint *lets* you say.  That's a
 MJ> mighty steep price for the alleged superiority of their product.

        Not as such...
        But anyone can go to Speaker's Corner, stand up on their
        milkbox, and say whatever they please.  Be it blasphemy or high
        treason, as long as they're not *on* British soil and people are
        listening...


Your pal:  PhlAsh
... Fallen matter from the cross.  Freedom that was never lost
---
 * Ùystertags v1.1 *
~~~ ReneWave v1.01 [NR]
--- Smile :)
 * Origin: * The Beast's Lair * (804)498-3070 * Va Beach VA * (1:275/160)

Ä [10] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 30 of 185
 From : Phill Ash                           1:275/160       .îí 15 .íâ 96 07:26
 To   : David Johnston
 Subj : Sliders comic
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE 1.11+

 ->       No really...
 ->       Have *you* heard anything confirming or denying the return of
 ->       'Sliders'?

 DJ> From "Previews" (a comic book distributors magazine):

        It's been a xon (xon: an unknown but mutually understood length
        of time) since I've read a "Previews" <G>

 DJ> "As of this writing, the Sliders TV show has been scheduled to
 DJ> return as a mid season replacement on Fox, starting sometime in early
 DJ> '96. Stay updated and in tune on Slider's continuity as the (comic
 DJ> book) miniseries picks up where the TV show leaves off.  Don't get left
 DJ> out of the excitement and miss this landmark miniseries..."

        Good deal!  One more question, though.
        (pulling out my Lt Columbo notebook)
        Who did you say was publishing that comic? <G>


Your pal:  PhlAsh
---
 þ Ùystertags v1.1 þ Time is the essence.  Time is the season
~~~ ReneWave v1.01 [NR]
--- Smile :)
 * Origin: * The Beast's Lair * (804)498-3070 * Va Beach VA * (1:275/160)

Ä [10] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 31 of 185
 From : Ken Mayes                           1:393/7         .îí 15 .íâ 96 07:27
 To   : Barton Paul Levenson
 Subj : Re: nuclear BS
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
        You're right about the expense involved. Here in Denton Texas most of
the surrounding communities get their electricity from the Comanche Peak nuclear
power plant in Glen Rose. Consequently they pay exorbitant rates. Denton however
declined to join that cooperative and elected to find alterative sources of
electricity. As a result three years ago most of us here not only paid less but
actually recieved a hundred dollar rebate on our electric bill at the end of the
year. I remember reading somewhere...I can't remember where darnit, so take it
with a grain of salt, but I read somewhere that not one single nuclear power
station had yet broken even financially, despite the fact that many have been in
operation for thirty years or more and are nearing the end of their operational
lives.
        The fact that the nuclear industry still pushes for more and more
reactors despite losses in the billions tells me that there is someone somewhere
making a killing figuratively if not literally.




--- CNet/3
 * Origin: The Bard's Tavern Denton, TX (817)243-5110 USR 28.8   (1:393/7)

Ä [10] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 32 of 185
 From : Ken Mayes                           1:393/7         .îí 15 .íâ 96 07:31
 To   : Frank Glover
 Subj : Re: nuclear BS
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On Mon 15-Jan-1996 12:00a, Frank Glover wrote:

FG>    It's fairer to say we're heavily dependent on *electricity.* Nukes  are
FG> just one source of it, and not the biggest.
FG>


        Actually what I meant to say was that "We depend far too much on nuclear
reactors for the electricity we get." I never intended to insinuate that we
didn't rely on coal, oil and natural gas. We do and far too much as well. We
need to pour at least as much money into exploring alternative sources as we do
the older ones. If we did that, our energy problems would be solved or at least
not as large as they are now.



--- CNet/3
 * Origin: The Bard's Tavern Denton, TX (817)243-5110 USR 28.8   (1:393/7)

Ä [10] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 33 of 185
 From : Christian Raven                     1:393/7         .òp 16 .íâ 96 02:36
 To   : All
 Subj : Re: Nowhere Man
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

MJ> The way his wife turned on him in the pilot was one of the reasons I
MJ> lost interest in the show.  That kind of 180 degree turn in her
MJ> behavior needed some heavy-duty justification.  And there was *none*.
MJ> If she was a ringer all along, why didn't they just have her *steal*
MJ> the negatives, or at least find out where he kept them (so experts
MJ> could blow the safe, for instance).

MJ> If she really *did* love him so much, why did she turn on him so
MJ> completely?  And why isn't she a major star if she can be such a
MJ> convincing actress--pretending so consistently to love him (if she
MJ> didn't) or not to know him (if she's trying to protect him).

  This is a very interesting part of the show... a part that, unlike the
respondant above, I saw as a good foreshadowing of some future event.  Tonite I
watched the latest episode, where the man that erased him (murdered him,
destroyed his caste in society?) was shot by... we didnt see.  But some unknown
helper, who is obviously high in the ranks of the conspiracy, has given him
information which will (supposedly) lead him to the head honcho of the great
(...).  I'm curious to know if anyone has any ideas on just who this might be,
because *personally* I think that it's going to end up being his wife, and that
the entire "hidden agenda" (the name of the picture which was stolen from him)
idea was merely a part of some bigger, hidden agenda.  I'm sure it will be
awhile before we actually find out, but if you guess right, at least in the end
you'll be able to say "told ya so!"
                                             christian@home@hisPC
--- CNet/3
 * Origin: The Bard's Tavern Denton, TX (817)243-5110 USR 28.8   (1:393/7)

Ä [10] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 34 of 185
 From : Christian Raven                     1:393/7         .òp 16 .íâ 96 02:43
 To   : Kevin Van Houten
 Subj : Re: Hi!
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

KH> While shoveling reindeer droppings from the Promenade, Dan Kachoogian
KH> inexplicibly said "Hi!" to Aaron Turon.

KH>  AT>> Hello! I'm a total TREKIE! Does anyone else like it? Please
KH>  AT>> write back!

KH> No, I doubt there would be ANYONE on a Science Fiction and Fandom
KH> Echo who had ever heard of Star Trek.

  oh no, you've been sucked into a "meaningless message" wormhole by responding
to that ignorant "trekkie".  be prepared to power up the aft ignore drive.

--- CNet/3
 * Origin: The Bard's Tavern Denton, TX (817)243-5110 USR 28.8   (1:393/7)

Ä [10] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 35 of 185
 From : Christian Raven                     1:393/7         .òp 16 .íâ 96 02:54
 To   : Glenn Shaheen
 Subj : Re: Star Trek
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

GS> EA>Star Trek, yes, in all its incarnations except Voyager.  They need to
GS> hir
GS> EA>some writers.

GS>         VOYAGER?!?!!?! I think Deep Space 9 is the one who needs to get
GS> some writers. Voyager is actually pretty good.

  I must have some problems with my terminal, I almost thought you said "good"
and "ST:Voyager" in the same sentence.  The captain is a woman, trying to be a
man.  Now if she were a lesbian (which... who knows?) I might be able to take
it.  But give me a break.. a black vulcan, an indian commander (whom I think
should be captain, he's a decent actor, at least), and a female captain... w   I
must have missed the episode where Oprah Winfrey and Spock were involved in more
than just a mind meld... or was it Guinan?  Anyway I'm just waiting for the
episode where the chinese/japanese engineer guy discovers his homosexuality.
Give me a break.  I think UPN started another show which gives us some info on
where Voyager is going.  Hint: Thomas Veil...
                                                     ..c.raven
--- CNet/3
 * Origin: The Bard's Tavern Denton, TX (817)243-5110 USR 28.8   (1:393/7)

Ä [10] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 36 of 185
 From : Christian Raven                     1:393/7         .òp 16 .íâ 96 02:56
 To   : Frank Glover
 Subj : Re: VIRTUAL SEX
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

KA>  FG>    Me, I can see it now; "Computer, run program `Madonna1, version
KA> 3."

KA> Madonna?  YEEEEEESH.  For your sake, I hope the program crashes...

  Either that or dont leave the real world without some Virtual Protection
(perhaps by Norton: Virtual D... Doctor)..
                                              ..c.raven..
--- CNet/3
 * Origin: The Bard's Tavern Denton, TX (817)243-5110 USR 28.8   (1:393/7)

Ä [10] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 37 of 185
 From : Roelof Otten                        2:282/214       .cê 14 .íâ 96 00:29
 To   : Phill Ash
 Subj : Nuclear
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Hello Phill!

Thursday January 11 1996, Phill Ash writes to David Johnston:

 PA> The most common human mutation over the past 30 or so years has not
 PA> been very beneficial to the specie as a whole.
 PA>                 It's called "cancer"

Two things, cancer isn't a mutation, but a disease. Neither is it something of
the last 30 years, it has been there for a long, long time, but the fact that so
many people catch cancer (not sure about the right syntax) is because most other
diseases are under control so they don't kill us. That gives cancer more time to
get us.


Roelof

--- GED/2 2.50+/FMail1.02+
 * Origin: The Cheesemaker's Home (2:282/214)

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 Msg  : 38 of 185
 From : Michael Harper                      1:123/10        .îí 15 .íâ 96 09:49
 To   : Lawrence E Dunlap
 Subj : tv and sf
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 -=> Over coffee and beignets, Lawrence E Dunlap told Michael Harper all about

  tv and sf...

 LED> Michael,

 LED> You point out one glaring difference between US and British TV,
 LED> that  some foundational degree of culture was present when their
 LED> networks  started. The American networks tried to rise above the poor
 LED> breeding of  the typical American.

 But don't forget, for every BBC Shakespeare production, there were half
 a dozen sitcoms that were just as brainless as anything we have here.
 The British and Europeans aren't the paragons of culture you'd like to
 think; ten years ago, I saw a Scots folk band called the Tannahill
 Weavers here. During the course of their show, they lamented the fact
 that they were missing _Dallas_. At the time, it was a national
 obsession in Britain and Europe.

 LED> My father's generation fought WWII, his brothers fought Korea and
 LED> Vietnam so *this* kind of Baby Boomer could be free to be such a low
 LED> breed of life *just* described?

 Yes. We need Joe Average the sheetrock worker and Steve Ordinary the
 auto mechanic as much or more than we do the Sagans and Hawkings of
 this world. Somebody has to do the work. It's not his fault that the
 country he lives in is about twentieth in educational standards, and
 possibly lower in literacy.

 Do you know who the most literate people in the world are? Oil riggers.
 Especially the ones on platforms and on towboats. They read everything,
 and read it again, and then read it to each other. I know of one guy
 who learned highly advanced mathematics, tensor calculus and that sort
 of thing, while working an oil rig. It was the only thing he could find
 that no one would walk off with before he was done with it.

 LED> Any civilized 21st Century culture cannot exist with such poorly
 LED> bred citizens of this level of ethical values and literacy in the
 LED> sciences as portrayed by the composite man just presented here.

 Blame the schools and the government. While you're at it, blame the
 people who let the schools and government get into such a state. We're
 the barbarians, son. We've planted the seeds of our own destruction.
 It's up to us to do something about it.

 LED> For one thing, in democracies such a man must be currently literate
 LED> in the sciences to effectively vote intelligently on scientific
 LED> issues.
 LED> *This* kind of a vacuum brained man would vote in a tyranny!

 He's a sleeping dragon, Lawrence. If something should rouse him, the
 Common Man will strike out with terrifying force. His interest in
 things nikulturny doesn't indicate a lack of intelligence; it indicates
 a lack of education. He's ignorant, not stupid. Within his area of
 expertise, he's very well-educated.

 LED> You're suggesting--impuigning!--that civlilized intelligent life
 LED> isn't preponderant in our country because popular media has cultivated
 LED> empty-minded life to prevent any critical thinking about nonrenewable
 LED> consumer products to protect easy profit margins.

 Yes. Because no one ever lost money underestimating the intelligence of
 the average human. And this planned obsolesence/lowbrow culture has
 been spoonfed to us for years. The Romans called it bread and circuses.
 If you keep the masses entertained, they'll ignore what you're doing.

 LED> Why does my gut suspect a educated and ethical population might
 LED> not buy so much nonrenewable consumables or docilely accept this level
 LED> of mediocrity in entertainment?

 The audience isn't the problem. The execs and the sponsors are the
 problem. The government is a major problem when it comes to
 nonrenewables. Read _Fallen Angels_ by Larry Niven, Jerry Pournelle and
 Michael Flynn. Then get back to me on nonrenewable resources.

 LED> What is your thinking about any good SF finding a place in mass
 LED> market media with the declining educational sharpness that you've just
 LED> highlighted? To say nothing of the survival of a educationally
 LED> literate television system in the US?

 Not much chance, I'm afraid. In another ten years, maybe. Let the rest
 of the dinosaurs die off in Hollywood, and education pick up somewhat.
 Maybe then we'll see a change. But as long as television depends on
 corporate sponsors, quality will be mediocre at best. The occasional
 bright spot like B5 will be rare, and cherished by those of us who know
 something good when they see it. The rest of the world will keep
 watching reruns of Full House...


... Drop out of school before your mind rots and go to the library. -Zappa
--- RA/FD/FMail
 * Origin: The Eclectic Fox -- Memphis, TN 901-327-1008 (1:123/10)

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 Msg  : 39 of 185
 From : Chip Griffin                        1:320/301       .cê 14 .íâ 96 13:37
 To   : Bianca Wesslak
 Subj : Re: nuclear BS
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
You are showing your lack of knowledge ...

On 01/14/96 (@13:27:54) Bianca Wesslak typed:

BW> energy.  The energy does  not even come from the split atoms.  The
BW> electricity is made form steam. The steam comes from the water cooling down
BW> the core reactor.  The steam turns all these doohickies, that turn turbines
BW> with magnets in them.  I don't think the risk is worth it.  I do not agree
BW> either with coal or fossil fuel despite what others think.  I think that
BW> they're are much more safer and  saner ways of getting energy.  wind,
BW> solar, geothermal, and hydroelectric, like niagra falls.  I don't like the
BW> though of using stuff that can level cities and leave behind destruction
BW> and death even years later.  It can infilltrate  ground water if people are
BW> not careful. etc etc.  We can't  even handle fossil fuels without hurting
BW> the enviroment and people.   To keep in topic and this is also something

The energy DOES come from the splitting of atoms.  When a large atom absorbs
an additional neutron (atom fragment) it becomes unstable and splits.  When it
splits it becomes to other materials plus additional items.  It releases
several neutrons, electrons, and heat.  The neutrons have a lot of kinetic
energy.  There is water close by which "thermalizes" the neutrons (that is to
say the water slows the neutrons down, which heats the water up).  The slower
neutrons are more likely to be absorbed by other Uranium atoms (thus
continuing the process).  The water (hot) is transported to "steam generators"
where they heat water on the other size of some tubes, thus keeping any chance
of contamination separated from the steam.  The secondary water boils and the
steam is transported to the turbines.  From here it is identical to Geothermal
or fossil boiler plants.

Incidentally, turbines work by converting the internal energy of the steam in
to rotational energy.  The rotational energy is used to turn a magnetic field
which induces a voltage (which can then cause current flow if there is a
closed loop) in coils close by.  The turbines don't have magnets in them, the
generator does.  There is no risk in this.  The absolute worse that can happen
here is that it can "come apart" (ie by the introduction of water when it is
turning at high speed, similar to sticking your finger in the spokes of your
bicycle wheel while it is turning at high speed) but this will only cause
damage to the turbine and people in CLOSE proximity to it ... no one off the
site will even know something happened.   ... no risk ...

You should study some before you decide you don't like something ...

de Chip [N1MIE] President of TRAUG         quarry@q.continuum.net


--- MacKennel 2.2.1
 * Origin: The Quarry: 860-889-6427 -- Amateur Radio & Mac User (1:320/301.0)

Ä [10] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 40 of 185
 From : Chip Griffin                        1:320/301       .cê 14 .íâ 96 13:45
 To   : Don Dellmann
 Subj : Re: nuclear BS
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On 01/14/96 (@13:42:02) Don Dellmann typed:

DD> Greenpeace is one of the greatest threats to our freedom there is.  Their
DD> political agenda is to control our country the way they want to control it,
DD> and the methods they use are criminal, in fact felonious, by the laws of
DD> every civilized nation in the world.

Exactly.  The scariest part for me is that my own mother supports them ... she
has greenpeace checks ... sad ...

DD> Wind is not reliable, geothermal is only available in a very few parts of
DD> the world and still relies on heat creating steam, Dams for hydro destroy
DD> large areas of the forest by creating resevoirs, (and what about the
DD> tremendous loss of life if a Dam "breaks"), and you would not believe how
DD> many people have had their houses burn down because of poor;y maintained
DD> solar collectors on the roof.

Recent stories I have heard indicate they've found a way to drill down,
detonate small explosions, and inject water which will be heated to steam in
areas where there is energy present but does not have the necessary conditions
naturally.  I still don't think it is the answer either.

As for the dams, I think that fear is probably as unfounded as the fear of a
nuclear meltdown.  Yes, it has happened in the past, but our knowledge and
technologies have developed a lot since then.

I don't know about the solar panel fires, that is the first I've heard of it
...

de Chip [N1MIE] President of TRAUG         quarry@q.continuum.net


--- MacKennel 2.2.1
 * Origin: The Quarry: 860-889-6427 -- Amateur Radio & Mac User (1:320/301.0)

Ä [10] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 41 of 185
 From : Chip Griffin                        1:320/301       .cê 14 .íâ 96 13:48
 To   : J.T. Smith
 Subj : Re: nuclear
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On 01/14/96 (@13:46:11) J.T. Smith typed:

JS>  As long as errors are capable of entering the equation, Nuclear power is
JS> still extremely dangerous.  TMI is now trying to cyphon (sp?) off the
JS> radioactive wastewater that has been left behind there into the atmosphere.
JS> Gee, just what I've always wanted.  No thanks.

You are wrong.  There is so much double-checking of each other, proceedures to
provide guidance, high-tech equipment to backup and force the right answer,
maintenance to ensure equipment is functional, proceedures to ensure equipment
will work as designed, etc etc etc that it is highly unlikely that an incident
can happen, but if it does it won't leave the site!

Your information on TMI is mistaken!

Nuclear power IS SAFE!

de Chip [N1MIE] President of TRAUG         quarry@q.continuum.net


--- MacKennel 2.2.1
 * Origin: The Quarry: 860-889-6427 -- Amateur Radio & Mac User (1:320/301.0)

Ä [10] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 42 of 185
 From : Chip Griffin                        1:320/301       .cê 14 .íâ 96 13:53
 To   : Bianca Wesslak
 Subj : Re: nuclear
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On 01/14/96 (@13:50:21) Bianca Wesslak typed:

BW> but then who wouldn't.  What bout batteries.  why would the electricity be
BW> gone?   Our ancestors did it, I don't see why we couldn't, and by some

Batteries are a STORAGE facility.  It's like a tank of water ... if you use
it, it will eventually be gone (unless you replenish it, which takes water).
Batteries have a limited life and they are gone, unless you recharge them
(which takes electricity).  There are some electro-chemical sources of
electricity, but they would either (a) be quickly exhausted and/or (b) not be
enough for your needs/desires

BW> Wave v2.12 [NR]  * Origin: The Cereal Port BBS (OS/2) Rindge,NH

BTW I am originally from near Keene, NH ... know where Walpole is?

Did you know there is a safe Nuclear power plant operating near where you are!
 Vermont Yankee has a fairly good reputation in the industry.

de Chip [N1MIE] President of TRAUG         quarry@q.continuum.net


--- MacKennel 2.2.1
 * Origin: The Quarry: 860-889-6427 -- Amateur Radio & Mac User (1:320/301.0)

Ä [10] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 43 of 185
 From : Chip Griffin                        1:320/301       .cê 14 .íâ 96 14:00
 To   : Bianca Wesslak
 Subj : Re: nuclear BS
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On 01/14/96 (@13:57:17) Bianca Wesslak typed:

DD> Greenpeace is one of the greatest threats to our freedom there is.
DD> Their political agenda is to control our country the way they want to
DD> control it, and the methods they use are criminal, in fact felonious,
DD> by the laws of every civilized nation in the world.
BW>  I cannot and will not believe such a statement.  Do they attack you?
BW> Who are most of their attacks aimed at, If I am not mistaken, they are
BW> aimed at corporations.  As for their methods, in a weird way I kinda
BW> agree with them.  Those trees and plants out there are beautiful entities.
BW> They need to be protected.

Yes they do.  They block sites so people can't go in to work.  They attack
submarines trying to board them illegally.  We were taught in the Navy to use
hoses to keep them away, but if necessary we had weapons (only a LAST resort).

They aim at corporations, but they effect us all.  You can't imagine the level
of security we have at our site (bomb detectors, metal detectors, fences,
motion sensors, cameras, etc etc etc) in large part due to Greenpeace (and
terrorists to a smaller degree).

Greenpeace IS a TERRORIST organization, their methods prove it!

de Chip [N1MIE] President of TRAUG         quarry@q.continuum.net


--- MacKennel 2.2.1
 * Origin: The Quarry: 860-889-6427 -- Amateur Radio & Mac User (1:320/301.0)

Ä [10] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 44 of 185
 From : Chip Griffin                        1:320/301       .cê 14 .íâ 96 14:05
 To   : Nicolai Shapero
 Subj : Re: nuclear
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On 01/14/96 (@14:04:00) Nicolai Shapero typed:

NS> No, you are not talking about crispy critters.  Broadcast power has already
NS> been tested (JPL, quite a few years ago).  The beam is spread out enough
NS> that there's not a serious problem with birds, animals or planes.

Not if you're going to get enough power to be useful.  Broadcast transmitters
emit a lot of power, but not enough is received to be usable.  There would be
a high loss to the atmosphere to I think ...

de Chip [N1MIE] President of TRAUG         quarry@q.continuum.net


--- MacKennel 2.2.1
 * Origin: The Quarry: 860-889-6427 -- Amateur Radio & Mac User (1:320/301.0)

Ä [10] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 45 of 185
 From : Chip Griffin                        1:320/301       .cê 14 .íâ 96 14:06
 To   : Nicolai Shapero
 Subj : Re: NUCLEAR paradox?
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On 01/14/96 (@14:05:25) Nicolai Shapero typed:

NS> Since we haven't GOT controlled fusion yet, we really don't know enough to
NS> judge which would be really safer.  The long term unpleasant effects of
NS> using fusion might be fewer than fission (less waste, potentially).

True, but can we safely sustain it?  There is no metal known to man which can
contain the temperatures achieved (necessary) during/for fusion.

de Chip [N1MIE] President of TRAUG         quarry@q.continuum.net


--- MacKennel 2.2.1
 * Origin: The Quarry: 860-889-6427 -- Amateur Radio & Mac User (1:320/301.0)

Ä [10] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 46 of 185
 From : Chip Griffin                        1:320/301       .cê 14 .íâ 96 14:08
 To   : Nicolai Shapero
 Subj : Re: nuclear BS
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On 01/14/96 (@14:06:22) Nicolai Shapero typed:

NS> I thought that microwaves used a somewhat different range of the
NS> electromagnetic spectrum.  As in, radio band?

Not necessarily in the radio band (radios can and do use microwave
frequencies, there is a whole group called by that generic term).  But yes,
light, infrared (light), ultraviolet (light), microwave (cooking), broadcast
radio, any two way radio, gamma radiation are all the same thing ... the only
differences are the frequency of the wave and the energy level (amplitude) ...

de Chip [N1MIE] President of TRAUG         quarry@q.continuum.net


--- MacKennel 2.2.1
 * Origin: The Quarry: 860-889-6427 -- Amateur Radio & Mac User (1:320/301.0)

Ä [10] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 47 of 185
 From : Chip Griffin                        1:320/301       .cê 14 .íâ 96 14:09
 To   : Nicolai Shapero
 Subj : Re: NUCLEAR
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On 01/14/96 (@14:09:08) Nicolai Shapero typed:

NS> Another factor to consider on solar panels. Manufacturing those toys is not
NS> free...it costs materials AND ENERGY.  What is the "break even" point on a
NS> panel, wrt energy expenditure?

That point did not escape me ... I just didn't bring it up in the message ...
there are a lot of other factors not covered there ...

de Chip [N1MIE] President of TRAUG         quarry@q.continuum.net


--- MacKennel 2.2.1
 * Origin: The Quarry: 860-889-6427 -- Amateur Radio & Mac User (1:320/301.0)

Ä [10] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 48 of 185
 From : Chip Griffin                        1:320/301       .cê 14 .íâ 96 14:11
 To   : Kay Shapero
 Subj : Re: nuclear BS
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On 01/14/96 (@14:10:10) Kay Shapero typed:

KS> How's that a counter example?  Your very post indicates that you know the
KS> difference between a steam explosion (which is mechanical in nature and can
KS> happen in just about any kind of power plant that uses hot water) and a
KS> nuclear explosion, which is what the Raven appears to have been talking
KS> about.

You are exactly right.  I don't know why I even brought it up.  Nuclear
reactors don't have anywhere near the right enrichment or geometry to be
capable of a nuclear explosion under any circumstances (even after a meltdown).

de Chip [N1MIE] President of TRAUG         quarry@q.continuum.net


--- MacKennel 2.2.1
 * Origin: The Quarry: 860-889-6427 -- Amateur Radio & Mac User (1:320/301.0)

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 Msg  : 49 of 185
 From : Chip Griffin                        1:320/301       .cê 14 .íâ 96 14:20
 To   : Ken Mayes
 Subj : Re: nuclear BS
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On 01/14/96 (@14:13:59) Ken Mayes typed:

KM>         The law of averages say that eventually there will be a major
KM> accident here in the U.S. Not like the little one at TMI, but a big
KM> Chernobyl style release of radiation. A full meltdown...not a partial melt

Your initial assumption in your logic is faulty.  The rest of your argument is
quite lucid, but the initial error negates the whole article.  The law of
averages has nothing to do with it.  There is nothing that could cause what
you propose.

Believe it or not, containments designed in the last 25+ years were designed
to take a direct strike from a crashing airplane (commercial passenger).
There is no single accident that can cause that sort of disaster.  People in
the plant don't have that much power.  There is too much equipment redundancy.
There is too much conservatisms built in.  There are too many safety systems
in place to mitigate (limit) any possible accident.

And we are constantly working to further improve the margins, constantly
looking for any possible items overlooked.  These are the things we learned
from TMI.  We learned that it can happen, so we better be prepared, so if it
does happen it won't go anywhere ... just melt where it is ...

de Chip [N1MIE] President of TRAUG         quarry@q.continuum.net


--- MacKennel 2.2.1
 * Origin: The Quarry: 860-889-6427 -- Amateur Radio & Mac User (1:320/301.0)

Ä [10] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 50 of 185
 From : Channon Lang                        1:130/809       .òp 16 .íâ 96 05:17
 To   : Glenn Shaheen
 Subj : Re: Star Trek
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE 1.11+
From a dark bottomless pit,Glenn Shaheen screamed up to Emilio Ares about Star
Trek..

 EA>Star Trek, yes, in all its incarnations except Voyager.  They need to hir
 EA>some writers.

 GS> VOYAGER?!?!!?! I think Deep Space 9 is the one who needs to
 GS> get some writers. Voyager is actually pretty good.

 I dunno, it's kinda looking like DS9 is finally doing something interesting.
 VOYAGER is just kinda wandering around like a lost puppy. I think however,
 they are working on it. From what I have seen of the advertisments for this
 season, it might certainly get more interesting. I hope so for it's sake.
 I like Janeway, and most of the crew for that matter, but the plot lines
 are, shall we say, thin.

 Channon



... As a computer, I find your faith in technology amusing.
--- MachoEcho 0.5ñ
 * Origin: The State of Confusion * Arlington Tx * 817-274-1920 * (1:130/809)

Ä [10] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 51 of 185
 From : Gary Warren                         1:382/92        .òp 16 .íâ 96 11:05
 To   : All
 Subj : Save FOREVER KNIGHT Faq!
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: IMAIL-386 1.70+ PK32
 * Crossposted from: Austin Local: Movies and Televison

[The following has been forwarded by me from the FOREVER KNIGHT Internet
Discussion List.  --glw--]
****************************************************************************
From AriCon@AOL.COMTue Jan 16 11:12:12 1996
Date: Tue, 16 Jan 1996 02:32:34 -0500
From: Felicia Bollin <AriCon@AOL.COM>
Reply to: Forever Knight TV show <FORKNI-L@PSUVM.PSU.EDU>
To: Multiple recipients of list FORKNI-L <FORKNI-L@PSUVM.PSU.EDU>
Subject: SOS: FK FAQ v. 2.0!!!

It's here . . . sorry so late.  Omissions, additions, corrections to me, as
always.  Thanks for the patience <G>

Felicia
AriCon@aol.com
Ravenette*Immortal Beloved

              ***THE "FOREVER KNIGHT" SAVE OUR SHOW FAQ***
                                          Version 2.0
                                       January 16, 1996

Ladies and Gentlemen:

"Forever Knight" is in trouble, and it needs your help NOW.

"Forever Knight" is a television show which features the embattled 800-year
old vampire Nick Knight (Geraint Wyn Davies), who fights crime in Toronto,
Canada in an effort to atone for sins committed in his centuries as a
vampire.  Along with Dr. Natalie Lambert (Catherine Disher), he searches for
a cure to bring him back from the land of the undead.  Adding to the conflict
is Lucien LaCroix (Nigel Bennett), Nick's vampire master, who seeks control
over Nick's eternal soul.  The series had just recently inked an
unprecedented dual syndication and cable deal with USA Networks for the
television season of Fall '95-Spring '96, where the episodes would be shown
on both the USA cable channel and in local syndicated markets, with a window
of mere days between them.

On December 22nd, through information on the Internet, sources close to the
show informed the fans that USA Network had decided to cease their
involvement in the show.  USA's financial support would also be removed from
the remaining unfilmed episodes of the season, and USA would discontinue any
showings on their network of any new episodes which were not funded by USA.
 This meant that the remainder of the current season would be seen *only* on
local syndicated stations;  and placed any future seasons of the show in
immediate jeopardy.  (This communication was confirmed officially by USA in
an article in the "Hollywood Reporter", January 9, 1996, as well as other
sources).

The Friends of Forever Knight and other support groups across the country
began to mobilize immediately.  Goals:  To convince TriStar Pictures that
there truly is a market for this excellent, groundbreaking television series
and that it should continue into a fourth season and beyond;  to convince
syndicated stations already carrying Forever Knight to *request* a fourth
season of the show and convince stations which do not carry Forever Knight to
pick it up as well;  and to bring the program's plight and that of its
devoted fans everywhere to the attention of various media outlets, hoping to
find alternative sources of funding other than USA Network.

Here's what YOU can do to help:

I.)  THE LETTER-WRITING CAMPAIGN

     A.)  The Parent Company

Send heartfelt letters asking for a fourth season and beyond of Forever
Knight to:

Mr.  Jon Feltheimer
President
TriStar/Columbia Pictures TV
10202 Washington Boulevard
Culver City, CA 90230
Fax:  Jon Feltheimer (310)202-4920 (direct)
Mail Room (*mark Attn:  Jon Feltheimer*) (310)202-3272

and

Ms.  Terry Johnson
Manager of Publicity
Columbia/Tri-Star
10202 W. Washington Boulevard
Culver City, CA 90232

Fax # for TV Syndicated Sales (the ones who will help decide if TriStar sells
a fourth season of FK) : (310)280-2280

**Send a telegram or mailgram.**  Some rates:

American Telegram: 800-343-7363
call at least one day ahead: $19.00 +0.89 cents/word

Unitel: 800-361-1872
$25.98 +tax (Canadian) if you call the day before
includes 15 words and a card (call Friday to get cheap rate)

Above rates vary for same day.  They can also be charged to your home phone,
or to a credit card.

If you can't swing a telegram, send your letters via overnight mail (FedEx,
UPS, etc.) .  We want to create a sense of urgency here, plus conveying that
FK viewers are a generous *and loyal* lot, willing to spend their disposable
income where it counts:  for any future FK soundtrack, novelizations, episode
tapes, products advertised on FK.

If you can't afford that, send them priority mail.  Send them regular mail,
send a postcard if you can afford nothing else.

***IMPORTANT***

NEVER send ANY letter with the words "Forever Knight" written ANYWHERE on the
envelope!  Keep it as clean and anonymous as possible as to its contents.

*If you do not keep all mention of FK out of your envelope header*, your
letters will be treated **as fan letters**, and will either be sent directly
to Paragon, Forever Knight's Canadian production company;  or be discarded
outright.

Do NOT mention *anything* that would indicate that you belong (pay dues, run,
etc.)  to a fan group per se.  Such groups are often seen as "fringe", and we
don't want to be discarded as "loonies" (these are the kind of executives who
probably think if you are a "ST" fan, this automatically means you wear a
pair of putty Spock ears to any and all social events).  Same deal if you
attend conventions.  I know it stinks, but in this world undereducated to the
joys of cult TV shows, them's the breaks.

Anyone who has access to pre-printed airbills should use those.
Official-looking overnight envelopes, like the type companies use, are
automatically better than ones that look unofficial. If you don't have access
to pre-printed airbills/shipping slips (either USPS ExpressMail and Fedex),
try to *type* the airbills rather than handwriting them.   *Any* letterhead
envelope from an organization can't hurt either.  If you have a business
card, *include it*.  Typed or handwritten are better than printed letters.
 Demographically speaking, each single letter is seen as representing *one
hundred* viewers who feel the same way as you, yet who might not pick up
their pens and keyboards to write.  Yes, your letter DOES COUNT!!!  (I know
there were some of you out there who were thinking, "Why should I write a
letter?  What difference does one person make?"    1 : 100, we're telling
you, you'll never get better odds!)

If you have friends and family who care about FK and want to help, **do not**
send petition letters with multiple signatures--- they are counted as *one
letter*.  Get them to write their own;  or, *you* play secretary for them and
compose the letter according to their own words and let them rewrite and
stamp it.

If you truly feel like you can squeeze no time or money out of your schedule,
at the very least boot up and send email to

TriStar:     callback@mis20.msmail.spe.sony.com

Paper is more effective every time, and is far more enduring than email;  but
every little bit will help.  Carry around preaddressed postcards and offer
them to coworkers and friends.  For the same effect, have them mailed from
different postmarks.  It is very important that we let TriStar know what a
diverse group we truly are.

DO NOT:  Make up names, or sign anyone's name to anything without their
permission.  It only takes one call to one address that is false, and *all
the rest of the letters* sent by fans will be looked upon with suspicion---
and may even cause TPTB to disregard them all.

Most important of all, **Be Polite**!  No ultimatums or threats like "if you
don't do this I will never ever watch anything on your network again".
 They've probably heard such threats many times before, and this will most
likely hurt your chances of being taken seriously.  For our purposes at hand,
concentration is key.  This is not the time or place to air your personal pet
peeves about the show either;  if you have any nitpicks or complaints, ignore
them for the duration of this letter.

     B.)  The Advertisers

Send letters telling the recent advertisers on FK (and those whom you *think*
could be well-suited to advertise on FK in the future), about this wonderful
show.  Tell them that you started using their products *because* you saw them
advertised on Forever Knight.  Call the toll-free numbers you find listed on
the back of their products.  In other words;  tell current advertisers that
their dollars were spent well!  Tell future advertisers that they will be
also making the right fiscal decision if they choose to start advertising on
FK, because we will buy their products faithfully.  Vote with your dollars!
 Send the sponsors your *cash register tapes* with their product listed,
along with a "since you support our favorite show, we support your product!"
note.  If you need a list of the show's sponsor addresses, visit the Save FK
website, or write to:

XFF Raven@aol.com

or

ktobin@tiac.net

Cynthia, choff@violet.berkeley.edu,  is working on compiling the list of all
the syndicated stations which carry FK.  If you want to know which station in
your area carries the show, send her email at the above address.

     C.)  The Local Station

This is *key*.  **Call** your local station and:

a.)  Ask for the Station Manager, Programming Director, or the person
responsible for purchasing their syndicated programming.  (Trust us, they'll
be *thrilled* to hear from you.  They don't often get positive feedback in
their job.  All of those who have tried it reported experiences ranging from
the relatively painless to the positively enervating.  Be extra-super-polite
to the person at the switchboard and all secretaries, and they will be
willing to help you.)

b.)  Tell them how much you love Forever Knight, how glad you are that they
have the excellent taste to show it, and tell them your tale of woe (how USA
Network summarily dropped the show and now its future beyond the remainder of
this season is in jeopardy).

If they *don't* show it on your local station, tell them they should.  If
that local station has web access, you can tell them to go to

http://www.cognito.com/0003/articles/00017326/17326824.htm

for some positive mentions of the show.  Send them to the main FK webpage at
SONY (listed later), for more information.

c.)  Tell them you have heard that TriStar will definitely *not* be offering
a fourth season of the show for sale next year but that they may *change*
their minds if enough of the syndicated markets ask for it.

d.) Tell them to call their TriStar rep soon and tell them they want to
purchase a *fourth* season of the show.  Not the second, not the third;  but
the FOURTH.  If they are also sending a representative to NATPE, the
broadcasters' convention in Las Vegas where next year's programs are sold,
tell them to go to the TriStar booth and ASK for a fourth season of Forever
Knight.  Do NOT take "We'll pick it up *if* they offer it" as an answer;
 because we know that they are *not going to offer it unless* enough stations
ask!!

*They Must Ask* TriStar for a *fourth* season of Forever Knight.

5.)  Thank them for their time, attention, and efforts.  And write them a
*thank-you note*.  Followup is very important.  It keeps your request in the
front of their minds, and it's polite.

II.)  THE CHARITY:
     A.)  Donations, to be sent to the Pediatric AIDS Foundation in the honor
of the cast and crew of Forever Knight.  We will be sending a large lump sum
in hopes that Sony/TriStar will realize the power of the disposable income of
"Forever Knight" fans.  We are suggesting a minimum donation of five dollars,
but you can give as much as you want and feel you can afford. After all, it
will go to a splendid cause.

*SEND DONATIONS TO: *

Lisa Prince
PAF "Forever Knight" Group Charity Organizer
360 Connecticut Avenue, Suite 133
Norwalk, CT  06854-1824

*Make checks/ money orders out to the Pediatric AIDS Foundation.*

     B.)  Also, we ask that you consider following up your donation with a
postcard to TriStar, informing them ($ amount is optional) that you have
donated in the names of the cast and crew of "Forever Knight".  You might
also want to consider adding a sentence about how much you enjoy the show and
hope to see more of it in the future.  If you do not wish to send a separate
postcard, add a line about having given money in the charity drive to the
letters you write to TriStar.

III.)  THE LOTTERY
   Purchase a symbolic donation to the cause in the form of one or two
scratch-off lottery tickets and include them in your letter.  The *intact,
unscratched* tickets are being sent to
Mr. Jon Feltheimer at TriStar (Full address can be found under the heading
above, "Letters"), with a note mentioning that you wish for the proceeds of
the winning tickets, if there are any (using the slogan "one chance in a
million"), to go towards funding the remainder of the season of "Forever
Knight".  Be upbeat and cheerful, not implying that TriStar et al. are
paupers who need a lottery in order to be able to afford to complete the show
:-).

In case TPTB are still interested in the number of "hits" each webpage gets,
don't forget to access the *main* SONY FK page at

http://WWW.SPE.Sony.COM/Pictures/tv/forever/forever.html

and *answer the Sony Survey* at:

http://www.spe.sony.com/Pictures/tv/feedback.html

to tell them which of their shows you watch.

Another something that takes not much time at all:  Include the SOS effort in
your Internet sig.  Something like:  "Forever Knight is in imminent danger of
cancellation.  If you want more information, email me at (insert your
address) or check out the Save FK webpage at (insert URL)."

Other potentially useful addresses:

1. )  Sony Corporation
7-35 Kitashinagawa 6-chome Shinagawa-Ku
Tokyo, 141
Japan

2.)  Sony Corporation of America
One Sony Dr
Park Ridge, NJ  07656
USA

3.)  Sony Pictures Entertainment
10202 W Washington Blvd
Culver City, CA  90232
USA

4.)  Sony Pictures Entertainment Television Group
10202 W Washington Blvd
Culver City, CA  90232
USA

We also have a list of the executives at said places;  if you are interested
in writing the parent companies, email Karen, at ktobin@tiac.net.

IV.)  FOREVER KNIGHT FAN APPRECIATION WEEK    JANUARY 14th - 20th

*January 16 - Syndication Appreciation Day!*

Call your local affiliate, tell them you want a 4th season and that they need
to ASK for it at NATPE, upcoming in Las Vegas!!!

Watch your syndicators' line-up for the day! Treat yourself to
some new programming! Sit and watch cartoons in the afternoon if need be! Let
them know that you appreciate them.  Send them a card, get a group together
and chip in for flowers or a balloon bouquet or send them a teddy bear! Make
them sit up and take notice!

*January 17 - Pediatric Aids Foundation Appreciation Day!*

Skip that special treat today or smoke less and send the saved money to the
Pediatric Aids Foundation via Lisa Prince, address above under "The Charity"
 (*To date, we have already collected over $5000! This money will be turned
over to the Pediatric Aids Foundation on this date. BUT...we will still be
collecting for a second wave of donations, until Valentine's Day, February
14th!*)

*January 18 - Overseas Appreciation Day!*

We have many fans overseas, today they too will be banding  together to show
their support!  Write a letter to Sony in Japan!  Addresses can be found in
this FAQ, and executives by mailing ktobin@tiac.net and requesting the Sony
Executive List.

*January 19 - Sponsor Appreciation Day!*

Eat a can of Spam and let Hormel know that you did! Or donate a can to your
local food bank. Let the sponsors of FK know that you are paying attention
during those commercials! Send the receipt in! Call their 800 number, listed
on the package of most products!  Receipts for purchased products may be sent
to the sponsor with your letters, let them know you care.

*January 20 - BLOOD DRIVE DAY!*

Baltimore: The Red Cross HQ on Mt Hope Dr beginning at 10AM

NYC: The Red Cross located on E.67th St between 1st and 2nd Aves. from
10-4:45 with a get together at Jekyll and Hydes' on the west side afterwards!

If you are not near one of these locations, go to your local Red Cross and
give blood and get a receipt! Tell them that you are donating to the FK
cause!

Receipts for your blood donation should be sent to:
          "The Friends Of Forever Knight"
           SOS-FK
           PO Box 30596
           Alexandria, VA 22310-9998

(Brought to you by The Friends of Forever Knight)

V.)  WORD OF MOUTH

"It is said that there is at max six degrees of separation between any two
people on this earth. I'm sure that if you think about it, you know someone
who knows someone, who knows someone, etc... it is also called networking.

"We can not limit ourselves and our campaign to the net. It is time to move
away from your keyboards and talk to all those other people. Someone
somewhere will listen.

"So, talk to everyone you know.. maybe they know someone who might be
interested in our story."

If you have "Forever Knight" clothing or jewelry, start wearing it.  If you
want to get some, visit the FK fan merchandise page.   The URL is:

http://www.eden.com/~gebbie/merch.html

You can find more selections from Questinc@aol.com (Ron Katz).

*Get out there* and talk to your friends.  If you are a college student, talk
to dorm members, post it on a campus-wide bbs or through brief campus-wide
email.  Get together with friends of yours who have or had dearly-loved shows
in danger, and "trade" letters (i.e. 'I'll send an "American Gothic" letter
if you send a "Forever Knight" one').  If you're a homeowner, take an old
real-estate sign, make your own FK billboard!  Get people who have not yet
watched the show to watch, in its last precious known episodes as of now.
Convert new fans!!!

VI.)  THE MEDIA

We also **need** media attention ASAP, and the more the better.  If you
happen to know of anyone involved in the fields of journalism, television,
advertising, or cable, get them interested in the plight of FK too!  TriStar
will need other sources of funding to replace the money that USA
contributed--- if you have any connections to production companies or
networks, use them!!  Several press releases can be found on the website,
listed below, also at the ftp site if you are "web-challenged"--- if you
would like the official version to send your local affiliate.

We are also sending some people to NATPE, the broadcasting convention where
TV station folk meet in Las Vegas to decide which syndicated shows they wish
to pick up for the following season.  Thousands upon thousands of
broadcasters attend.  FK Friends *will* be distributing "Save Forever Knight"
bags to the broadcasters attending.  If you have any connections in the Las
Vegas area, or if you know of or happen to be a staff member at any TV
stations who plan on sending representatives, now is the time to tell us.
 Mail

gryphon@exec.pc.com

for more details.

*THE*  homepage for information on our efforts, the "Save FK Homepage", can
be found at:

http://members.aol.com/CuznJamiMR/SaveForeverKnight.html

And it is case-sensitive, which means you must copy everything exactly, down
to the capitals, or you will not be able to access it.  Those who do not have
web access but have FTP access can find most of the information at:

ftp.cac.psu.edu/pub/people/lms5/FKSAVE

This includes the documents necessary to compile a flyer to leave in public
places such as:  colleges and universities, public bulletin boards, meetings
of your local SF club, your local bookstores, gaming emporiums, and so forth.
 It is available in PC Word for Windows (sfkshort.doc) and Word Perfect 5.1
(sfkwp51.zip or sfkwp.doc) formats, as well as Word for Mac format
(sfkmac.mcw).  *Do not forget* to download the graphic    title.pct   as
well.

If you know someone who is a fan and is not on the Internet at all, you may
also request to have them put on our snail-mail list.  Just mail
LGSoward@aol.com for more details.

VII.)  MORE ADVERTISING

*Write to those who advertise *.

Tell them how much you love their product BECAUSE of their ad on FK; tell
them of the nationwide effort to save the show -- and how much the loyal
viewers will pay back the favor by buying their product.  Be sincere, be
believable -- and do it!  If advertisers see a blip in revenues and sales,
*they will believe* -- copy TriStar (also Sony) on all the letters.  Write to
those who advertise on our local cable companies.  TriStar will listen if
cable companies in the top 100 markets say they want to see FK -- because
their local advertisers want to see it.

Write or call the local cable companies themselves.  Write to computer
companies and their suppliers.  If you bought a new modem, increased your
memory, etc. recently, send them copies of your bills and receipts.  Tell
them that you bought this equipment / use  this online service *specifically*
so that you could communicate with other people involved with *this* specific
TV show.

Write to local or national papers.  TV Guide also has a Sci-Fi page and a
Cheers and Jeers column that might respond.  Cheers & Jeers recently jeered
the cancellation of MST3K.

Columnist Ian Spelling writes a widely-read newspaper column which contained
a sympathetic, favorable FK article on Nov. 13th.  His snail-mail is:

Ian Spelling
c/o The New York Times Syndicate
122 E. 42nd St.
New York, NY 10168.

VIII.)  RADIO and CLASSIFIED ADS;  MISCELLANEOUS:
Use "Dedication and Request" call-in shows from the local radio stations to
plug our efforts.  The DJ might be interested enough to ask questions if you
call up and say "I'd like to request a song to be dedicated to the
hardworking cast and crew of the endangered TV series 'Forever Knight'".
 Songs with the words "Forever" and "(K)night" in the titles are seen as the
best choices, since it will repeat said phrases as many times as possible.
 However, any song which is catchy will do.  It is better to pick a readily
identifiable hit than an album cut, since it both increases listener
identification, and DJs are more likely to play it.  A knowledgeable
individual also has recommended that you *write and thank the deejay* after
he/she plays your song;  it will do wonders.  You want to establish a rapport
with your DJ.  In this as in all areas of the Save FK Campaign, THINK BIG.
 *Not Small*.  Send email to

mickey@crow.cybercomm.net

if you want the most up-to-date decisions re:  which song to play, when to
play it, which stations accept dedications, etc.

Take ads in your own little (preferably free) hometown papers;  to get
letters, attention, or whatnot.  If we can manage to get the attention of
some heavy-hitters, perhaps other, wealthier entities will be willing to chip
in.

Many of the people in "the industry" have been writing lately to stress this.
 The bottom line for all TV executives is MONEY.  If you're writing from
another country, they will want to hear from you at TriStar and Sony
*especially*.  A good chunk of the revenue is found in lucrative overseas
rights.  Don't forget your local station as well!  Remember the vast market
that has been found for Dark Shadows and most markedly Star Trek, among
others;  in terms of merchandise, revivals, spinoffs, reruns, cons, and the
like, all moneymaking concerns;  and the yet-unrealized consumer-good power
of "cult TV shows" which most network execs don't seem to appreciate.

Buy a length of black satin ribbon, and in the true Hollywood tradition,
festoon symbolic lengths of it on your clothing.  When someone asks what it
stands for (and they will), TELL THEM.

IX.)  EPILOGUE

Every little bit you can do helps.  Mix and match the possibilities to best
suit your budget and time.  If you have more, give more.  If you have less;
 talk, talk, talk to everyone you meet, and pass this document on!

Let's bring back the Knight!!!!!

... RAM DISK is NOT an installation procedure!
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.20
 * Origin:  Rendezvous!! 28.8_VFC Bastrop, Tx [512-303-1324] (1:382/92)

Ä [10] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 52 of 185
 From : Bianca Wesslak                      1:132/152       .cê 14 .íâ 96 01:00
 To   : Phill Ash
 Subj : nuclear
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
From a woman with an overactive imagination.

 PA> Hmmm.... The High-ASCII must not be translating.  It's
 PA> supposed to be the Greek spelling of "Thanatos", but the theta,
 PA> omega and sigma aren't coming across...

 What or who is Thanatos??

 PA> Well, realistically speaking, you'd probably run out of
 PA> ammunition before the looters finish ransacking your pantry...

 what ammunition, I don't own a gun.  The only thing close to that would
 be a modified toy pellet gun my fiance has.  What makes you so sure any
 looters would hit my home and not some supermarket??  Where in the world
 did you get the above statement from me saying I'd beg some native
 americans for survival lessons??  Ya got me stumped.



... "Vegetarian": Indian word for "lousy hunter".
--- Blue Wave v2.12 [NR]
 * Origin: The Cereal Port BBS (OS/2) Rindge,NH 603-899-3335 (1:132/152)

Ä [10] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 53 of 185
 From : Bianca Wesslak                      1:132/152       .cê 14 .íâ 96 01:18
 To   : Mark Jones
 Subj : nuclear
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
From a woman with an overactive imagination.

 MJ> Why would the electricity be gone?  Maybe it just "went away".  (The
 MJ> novel ARIEL describes such a situation--a very good fantasy story,
 MJ> too.)

 I don't know, ask phlash, he's the one that came up with the scenario.
 What's ARIEL bout??

MJ> The problem with your plan--learning to hunt and hang out on a
 MJ> reservation--is that about 200,000,000 other people will be having
 MJ> much the same idea.  And the land can't possibly support even a tiny
 MJ> fraction of that many.  Remember--the native american population was
 MJ> *tiny* compared to what we have today, and they had all of the
 MJ> completely undeveloped continent to hunt.  Large tracts of the
 MJ> continent are now buried under concrete or cut up into farmland or
 MJ> suburbs and thus unsuitable for supporting the game that might support
 MJ> YOU (and me and everyone else).

Than I guess we are all gonna have to learn to adapt.  I would also trust
to my instincs and my intuition.  Should electricity just go away those
people on a reservation have more of a chance to survive than we do,
living in the suburbs.  They have faced a lot of harsh conditions.
Besides it's the only plan that I can think of.  The fall of electricity
has on upside, a lot of the bombs that the military controls, won't be
able to be set off.


... Imagination is more important than knowledge.
--- Blue Wave v2.12 [NR]
 * Origin: The Cereal Port BBS (OS/2) Rindge,NH 603-899-3335 (1:132/152)

Ä [10] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 54 of 185
 From : Bianca Wesslak                      1:132/152       .cê 14 .íâ 96 01:40
 To   : Mark Jones
 Subj : nuclear BS
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
From a woman with an overactive imagination.

 MJ> And since when does committing a felony against a corporation make it
 MJ> less of a felony?

 Did I say it was less than a felony?

 MJ> We've already put hydroelectric power plants on most of the available
 MJ> watercourses.  As for wind and solar and geothermal--there simply
 MJ> isn't ENOUGH of it to power our civilization.  A high-tech
 MJ> civilization requires vast amounts of energy, and the only available
 MJ> sources concentrated enough to do the job are fossil fuels and nuclear
 MJ> power.

 How bout putting sturdy windmills during typhoon season, in the artic,
 etc, wherever there is high wind.  As for the only alternatives as
 fossil fuels and nuke power, you are limiting yourself.  Those fuels
 will not last forever.  what happens when those run out???  Necessity is
 the mother of invention.  I'm sure if we make it a necessity to work in
 conjunction with the enviroment to find feasable and safe alternatives
 to what we already use to make electrity then we shall find a way.

 MJ> Caves can be *very* cold sometimes.  And ask submariners about the
 MJ> danger of fire in "nonflammable" areas like steel submarines....

 I don't remember where I read or when, but the information told me
 caves a standard temp year round, 70 something degrees in the summer,
 and 50 something in the winter.  Why else do you think animals like them,
 and for that matter ancient humans.  During winter they are insulated by
 snow, which is a good insulator.  As for the submarines they have flammable
 substances inside of them.  Caves have rock dirt, and green vegetation,
 which can burn does so difficulty.  there is also not enough fuel in a cave
 to sustain a fire.
 I have been racking my brain to get this topic back on topic,  the only
 thing I could think about was norton and her post apolyptic(I don't remember
 the spelling for that word) books and the shannara series.


 MJ> -!- PPoint 1.78
 MJ>  ! Origin: Folcroft Sanitarium (hsmith@cure.com) (1:105/302.47)



... Dragons rescued.  Virgins slain.
--- Blue Wave v2.12 [NR]
 * Origin: The Cereal Port BBS (OS/2) Rindge,NH 603-899-3335 (1:132/152)

Ä [10] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 55 of 185
 From : Michael Harper                      1:123/10        .òp 16 .íâ 96 07:52
 To   : Channon Lang
 Subj : Star Trek
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 -=> Over coffee and beignets, Channon Lang told Michael Harper all about

  Star Trek...

 CL> Isn't it interesting that 30 years ago Star Trek was on the edge about
 CL> everything, and now it's considered safe? Times they are a changin',
 CL> eh?

 Most definitely, dear. For its time, Trek was one of the most daring
 shows ever done. It still has its moments...

 CL> Well, I'm a storyline person myself, and I had problems plopping
 CL> myself into a place I really had no knowlege of. I think if they had
 CL> pushed it a little bit more at the beginning, I might have adapted
 CL> sooner. As it was, I didn't really like what I knew of the story, and
 CL> therefore looked no further. That is, until had nothing else to do one
 CL> day.

 But see, there's the trick. You don't wanna do too much too fast, or
 you risk running the viewers off before you can get them properly
 hooked. With the pilot film, they had ninety or so minutes to tell the
 story, and what with setting up the background, telling the story
 itself, and everything else they had to do, the individual characters
 got about three minutes each. Once the show got going, there was more
 time to set things up, and characters could develop properly.

 The studio is responsible for the lag between the pilot and the first
 episode. Execs. Shoot 'em all and shove 'em out the damn airlock. Let
 the people who actually know what they're doing run the studios for a
 change...


--- RA/FD/FMail
 * Origin: The Eclectic Fox -- Memphis, TN 901-327-1008 (1:123/10)

Ä [10] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 56 of 185
 From : Mark Jones                          1:105/302.47    .óá 13 .íâ 96 16:05
 To   : Ken Mayes
 Subj : nuclear BS
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On (12 Jan 96) Ken Mayes wrote to All...

 KM>         To me one of the greatest dangers of nuclear power is over
 KM> dependence on it. We already rely far too heavily on it.

   Not hardly.  We don't use nearly enough.

 KM>         The law of averages say that eventually there will be a major
 KM> accident here in the U.S. Not like the little one at TMI, but a big
 KM> Chernobyl style release of radiation. A full meltdown...not a partial
 KM> melt down but a full blown explosion destroying the containment
 KM> building and many others around it. When that happens, public opinion
 KM> will turn so far against nuclear.

   Forty thousand (40,000) people are killed ANNUALLY by automobile
accidents in this country.  I still have yet to see any mobs storming
General Motors or Ford plants, killing workings and demanding that we
return to the days of the horse and buggy.
   How many people get killed plane crashes every year?  Nobody is
demanding that we outlaw passenger flights.  Nobody is storming
airports and vandalizing 747s.

 KM> impact of such an event hits their pocket book. I'm talking the
 KM> expenses of relocating millions of people, refugee camps, the
 KM> resultant economic collapse and the geniune fear of the unknown which
 KM> will pervade the populace.

  WE DON'T USE CHERNOBYL-STYLE REACTORS.  That design was considered
and rejected in this country specifically *because* of the danger of
what happened in the USSR.  The same failures occurred at TMI, but a
superior design prevented the sort of disaster Chernobyl experienced.

 KM>         Protests at nuclear plants jumped after TMI. After an event of
 KM> this magnitude...and again the law of averages dictate that one will
 KM> eventually happen...many plants will literally be stormed and workers
 KM> killed by angry mobs.

   Crap.  If the public turns into terrified nuclear luddites, the
SAFEST place to be will be the control rooms of nuclear power plants.
They'll be terrified to come near them.

 KM> choose. That's when the over-dependence will come into play. Shut
 KM> those reactors down and you shut down the economy. We're talking major
 KM> economic depression here. Mark my words. One major accident...kiss our
 KM> way of life goodbye. The US will be lucky to emerge at the the level
 KM> of a third world nation.

   As opposed to our reliance of foreign oil?  We *had* a major
economic dislocation based on that in the 1970s.  It wasn't pleasant,
but we survived.  And we're doing considerably better than "third
world" nation status.


--- PPoint 1.78
 * Origin: Folcroft Sanitarium (hsmith@cure.com) (1:105/302.47)

Ä [10] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 57 of 185
 From : Mark Jones                          1:105/302.47    .óá 13 .íâ 96 16:14
 To   : Bill Clements
 Subj : NUCLEAR
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On (10 Jan 96) Bill Clements wrote to All...

 BC>         Most of the discussion in this thread; and resulting
 BC> threadlets; was addressed in "Fusion Without Ex-Lax" first
 BC> published in "GALAXY" October 1976 (C)opyright by UPD Publishing
 BC> Corporation Inc. and reprinted in "A STEP FARTHER OUT" (C)opyright
 BC> 1979 by Jerry Pournelle, Ph.D..
 BC>         Acquire this book; READ IT COVER TO COVER; then address
 BC> any further questions, comments, etc., to Dr. Pournelle.

   I recommend also "Know Nukes" in MINDS, MACHINES, AND EVOLUTION by
James P. Hogun.


--- PPoint 1.78
 * Origin: Folcroft Sanitarium (hsmith@cure.com) (1:105/302.47)

Ä [10] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 58 of 185
 From : Mark Jones                          1:105/302.47    .óá 13 .íâ 96 16:15
 To   : Don Dellmann
 Subj : nuclear BS
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On (12 Jan 96) Don Dellmann wrote to Bianca Wesslak...

 DD> The "native Americans" had a whole continent, one of the richest
 DD> in the world in natural resources, and they didn't do anything
 DD> with it.
 DD>
 DD> Good stewardship of resources means using them, and exploiting
 DD> them wisely. Allowing the land to "lie fallow" and run wild is
 DD> NOT good stewardship.

   I beg to differ.  If its *your* land, and you choose to let it lie
fallow, there's nothing wrong with that.  (Demanding that someone else
let *his* land remain unworked is another matter.)

   Whether or not the native americans made wise use of their land,
the point is moot.  There are vastly more people living here today
than could ever possibly be supported in that fashion.  We need large
scale agriculture and energy generation to support us all.


--- PPoint 1.78
 * Origin: Folcroft Sanitarium (hsmith@cure.com) (1:105/302.47)

Ä [10] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 59 of 185
 From : Mark Jones                          1:105/302.47    .óá 13 .íâ 96 16:20
 To   : Frank Glover
 Subj : VIRTUAL SEX
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On (11 Jan 96) Frank Glover wrote to Mark Jones...

 FG>    You know, we've seen plenty of hints of this in Star Trek's
 FG> holodecks/holosuites. Remember the attempt to do an unauthorized scan
 FG> of Major Kira so as to incorporate her into a scenario for one of
 FG> Quark's customers? Or when that warpdrive engineer learned that Geordi
 FG> had used a construct of her to help solve a previous problem (and she
 FG> jumped to the wrong conclusion as to just what the problem was?).

   Yep.  In reality, I suspect the holodecks would get extensive use
as a holo-brothel.  (This being the Federation, though, that of course
doesn't happen much....  Yeah.  Right.)

 FG>    Me, I can see it now; "Computer, run program `Madonna1, version 3."

   Exactly.  You can program in anyone you like, and edit their
behavior so that they behave as you'd like them to, rather than as
they would in real life.  (Like Barclay's fantasies of beating up
Riker and dominating the bridge crew.)

   There's big money to be made in this field one day.


--- PPoint 1.78
 * Origin: Folcroft Sanitarium (hsmith@cure.com) (1:105/302.47)

Ä [10] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 60 of 185
 From : STEPHEN ADAMS                       1:377/77        .îí 15 .íâ 96 08:25
 To   : ROBERT SIEMBORSKI
 Subj : NOWHERE MAN
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE 1.2

RS> SA>Personally, I hope the the producers DON'T change the show

RS> I didn't know they were planning on changing it.

Hopefully, they aren't. What I was originally implying was that since
the show is being shown on the fledgling UPN network, that there could
come a time when UPN's execs decide that Nowhere Man needs to have
bigger ratings in order to stay in the schedule.

There are rumors flying around that Paramount might be considering
scrapping ST:DS9 and throwing all of its resources into ST:Voyager.
Why? In order to bolster the ratings of Voyager, which happens to be
the keystone show for UPN. If Voyager stumbles, then it is likely that
UPN would be on shaky ground. UPN may then try to stabilize itself with
shows that appeal more to the mass-market audiences. I just hope that
they don't try to turn Nowhere Man into one of those mass-market, no-
brainer (IMHO) shows.

If all of this speculation does indeed come true, then I'd rather see
the writers and producers of Nowhere Man either conclude the series, or
take it where they can continue on with the quality they've put out so
far; either in syndication or, perhaps, another network such as WB.

Later...

Steve
January 15, 1996   08:37 ET
---
 * RM 1.3  * Eval Day 40 * Internet Email:  stephen.adams@bandit-bbs.com

---  WC!/IM!/GE-PRO1.20!
 * Origin: Longbow BBS! Tampa, FL (813)961-3653 USR V.34+ DS (1:377/77)

Ä [10] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 61 of 185
 From : STEPHEN ADAMS                       1:377/77        .îí 15 .íâ 96 09:08
 To   : MARK JONES
 Subj : NOWHERE MAN
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE 1.2
On 01/12/96 at 17:53, MARK JONES, cyberspace traveller,
grabbed the attention of STEPHEN ADAMS by uttering these words...
*** NOWHERE MAN ***
which leads to this exchange:

MJ> SA> It's been established in an episode I saw before Christmas, that Tom's
MJ> SA> wife and mother are in on the Conspiracy.

MJ> And did they make any attempt to justify this?  Are they acting under
MJ> duress?  Are they brainwashed?  Are they going along in hopes of getting
MJ> the conspiracy off his back if he'll cooperate?

No, in the end they didn't explain any of this. In that episode, they did
offer explanations for questions, but at the very end, his wife and mother
turned on him again - effectively blowing all of the explanations out of the
water! :)

MJ> Or are they simply coopted by fiat, because this shocking betrayal adds
MJ> to the paranoia level?  [That would be my guess.]

And mine as well.

MJ> The way his wife turned on him in the pilot was one of the reasons I lost
MJ> interest in the show.  That kind of 180 degree turn in her behavior
MJ> needed some heavy-duty justification.  And there was *none*.

My take on this show is that it is to present to the audience what it is that
*Tom* is feeling, seeing, and/or experiencing. How many times in your own
lives have behavior changes in other people left us wondering what was going
on? (When I say other people, I'm talking about loved ones and friends that
we care deeply for and implicitly trust.) And of those times, in how many of
them did we get a sufficient explanation as to why they did what they did?
Not everything in life gets explained with some "heavy-duty" justification,
and it appears that Nowhere Man's production staff is just following this
concept.

For me, it is this overall *lack* of justification that brings me to watch
the next episode! I, too, have become part of Tom's search for answers!  :)

MJ> If she was a ringer all along, why didn't they just have her *steal* the
MJ> negatives, or at least find out where he kept them (so experts could blow
MJ> the safe, for instance).

Well, if they did *that*, then there would be no more story.  :)

This is not to say, in my opinion, that Nowhere Man's story is based squarely
upon The Conspiracy trying to get hold of the negatives. It is, I feel, just
a vehicle to get to the real story; that being *the search* by Tom for an
explanation, any explanation, as to why someone or some group would want to
completely destroy his life.

Regarding the negatives. Throughout this series, everyone has tried to get
Tom's negatives, but he has managed to hide them in some pretty unique
places. Besides, he's got the negatives scattered all throughout the
country!

MJ> If she really *did* love him so much, why did she turn on him so
MJ> completely?  And why isn't she a major star if she can be such a
MJ> convincing actress--pretending so consistently to love him (if she
MJ> didn't) or not to know him (if she's trying to protect him).

Tom's wife is not a major character in this series. Tom Veil is the ONLY
major character in Nowhere Man - view the opening credits if you don't
believe this. Bruce Greenwood is the only actor that appears in them, while
all of the other visiting actors appear in the closing.

That's why I think this show is truly about *how* one person feels, and it
excels in this. The viewer doesn't get justification as to why everybody is
out to get Tom, because *he* doesn't get any justification.  :)

BTW, since you haven't been watching the series, every character who has
attempted to assist Tom has either been killed or hurt by The Conspiracy.
With the exception of Tom's wife and mother, no other characters have
appeared again in any episode. The wife and mother characters have appeared
in only one other episode since the pilot; that being the one I told you
about.

Later...

Steve
Monday, January 15, 1996 at 10:29
Internet:  stephen.adams@bandit-bbs.com

---
 * RM 1.3  * Eval Day 40 *

---  WC!/IM!/GE-PRO1.20!
 * Origin: Longbow BBS! Tampa, FL (813)961-3653 USR V.34+ DS (1:377/77)

Ä [10] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 62 of 185
 From : STEPHEN ADAMS                       1:377/77        .îí 15 .íâ 96 10:39
 To   : DAVID JOHNSTON
 Subj : NOWHERE MAN
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE 1.2
On 01/14/96 at 00:20, DAVID JOHNSTON, cyberspace traveller,
grabbed the attention of STEPHEN ADAMS by uttering these words...
*** Nowhere Man ***
which leads to this exchange:

DJ> SA> I know a few people who WON'T watch the show because it makes them
DJ> SA> feel uneasy;

DJ> Do you know anyone who just balks at the utter implausibility of what is
DJ> going on?

Not personally, but I'm sure that there are. I suppose if a person doesn't
believe in conspiracies, of any kind, at all, then viewing Nowhere Man would
be a waste of time.

Later...

Steve
Monday, January 15, 1996 at 10:45
Internet:  stephen.adams@bandit-bbs.com

---
 * RM 1.3  * Eval Day 40 *

---  WC!/IM!/GE-PRO1.20!
 * Origin: Longbow BBS! Tampa, FL (813)961-3653 USR V.34+ DS (1:377/77)

Ä [10] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 63 of 185
 From : Tony Trujillo                       1:280/9         .îí 15 .íâ 96 12:24
 To   : Judy Hayes
 Subj : Re: "Who" knew.
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE 1.11+

 JH> Just a note picked up from Jay Badenhoop's "Mr. Data's Data" -
 JH> "Actor Paul McGann (Alien 3, The Three Musketeers) has just been signed
 JH> to play the title role in the new "Doctor Who" movie.

I'm a Whovian from WAY back and all I have to say about this
news is...I'LL BELIEVE IT WHEN I SEE IT! :^)

They've been promising new DocWho material for a long time
now (especially a movie...and I'm talking about since Tom
Baker's reign) so I have to take this news with a grain of
Gallifreyian salt! :^)

Here's hoping that the movie actually (excuse the pun)
materializes this time.


... "Oh! Just like that Doctor?"  "Who??"  "Can't remember!"
--- Via Silver Xpress V4.02B03 SW01177
 * Origin: South of the River - Overland Park KS - (913)642-7907 V.* (1:280/9)

Ä [10] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 64 of 185
 From : Tony Trujillo                       1:280/9         .îí 15 .íâ 96 13:14
 To   : Myra I Fox
 Subj : Re: Tom Holt & PTerry
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE 1.11+

 MI> It was a lot of fun... I still have "Small Gods" on hand that I
 MI> haven't read.

I have that one tucked away as well as SOUL MUSIC. I've been
waiting for Jo to get into a Pterry reading mood so we could
read one or the other together. Actually, I still have a few
older PTerry books to get to so I have plenty of time. :^)

 MI> I am not sure if that is what it was, but it was just a short little
 MI> book not as involved as the other Discworld books.  But, who could
 MI> resist a book with Rincewind and the Luggage?

You know...sometimes even Pterry can't resist a horrible
pun...in either _TCoM_ or _TLF_ Pterry described Luggage
giving Rincewind a look that could only be described as
wooden...this of course is a horrible pun but it make me
laugh out loud. At least he does it with style unlike some
other authors we could mention but I don't want to start a
flamewar! :^)

 TT>> It's always nice to support the local smaller stores...never
 TT>> hurts to keep the money "in town".
 MI> And the personal touch that the local stores have makes it worth
 MI> while.

We have a small bookstore that opened about 2 miles away
from my house and I always try to throw a little business
their way...however with the price of new paperbacks it gets
harder and harder. I've been wanting to buy a copy of the
new MAN-KZIN WARS book but it's $5.99! ACK! I'm sorry...I
love series but I find that I'm hard pressed not to buy it
at that price. :^(


... "Dr. McCoy. Will you do the very great honor of eating my shorts?"
--- Via Silver Xpress V4.02B03 SW01177
 * Origin: South of the River - Overland Park KS - (913)642-7907 V.* (1:280/9)

Ä [10] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 65 of 185
 From : Todd Sullivan                       1:202/720.3     .cê 14 .íâ 96 17:20
 To   : J.T. Smith
 Subj : nuclear safety
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
While substituting for Q, J.T. Smith took extreme delight in saying to Chip
Griffin, "You'll do anything I say?"  Chip quailed when the words "nuclear
safety" were uttered.

 JTS>  Never kid yerself.  NOTHING is impossible.  Murphy's law has a way of
 JTS>  catching up w/ ye.  Improbable I might grant, but never impossible.
 JTS>  (Impossible just means it takes a wee bit longer to do.

Then how is it that the USS Nautilus had absolutely no mishaps in her 31 year
career?  I'll tell you:  Nuclear power, when watched over carefully with a
rigorous operating structure, is safer than most anything else available.
Murphy can't stop careful planning and execution unless someone drops the ball
somewhere.

 JTS>  Anything can burn.  Including water.  Ye heat up H2O enough, ye'll
 JTS> cause the hydrogen and oxygen to seperate.  Hydrogen can explode, and
 JTS> oxygen will
 JTS>  fuel that explosion.  I know a guy who was in the coast guard.
 JTS> Watched a bucket of water literally explode.  2H2O can, and when heated
 JTS> enough, will break down into H2 and O2.  (Now if I could only remember me
 JTS> chemistry lectures on the mathmatics i could post them.)

The temperatures necessary to cause water to disassociate are not possible in
pressurized water or even boiling water reactors.  As for hydrogen peroxide,
that stuff is dangerous to begin with; it was used as an oxidizer for rockets.

 JTS>  Bar the bang.  Look at the water that they're having to cyphon off
 JTS> into the
 JTS>  atmosphere from TMI.  BTW, did I forget to mention that it's
 JTS> radioactive?
 JTS>  Well guess what, it is!  No thanks.  I can think of more fun ways to
 JTS> die.

The building's still standing, and you get more from medical X-rays than you
would in a year at the site.  As for radioactive, so's the sun.

 JTS>  Nuc power isn't the best.  There is always better.  Fossil fuels
 JTS> aren't it
 JTS>  either as 1) they're a very limited resources, and 2) they're known
 JTS>  polutants.

If they're better, where's the rush for solar, wind, temperature gradient,
tidal, etc. methods?  Nobody wants to do them just yet, from what I've read and
heard.  It's better to use what we have (nuclear) than be forced into it when
the petoleum run out.

Todd Sullivan

... Spellcheck, then run Politically Correct V1.1, then post? (y/N)

-*- ASTG 1.9

--- Spot 1.3a Unregistered
 * Origin: Todd's Spot in the Continuum (1:202/720.3)

Ä [10] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 66 of 185
 From : Phill Ash                           1:275/160       .òp 16 .íâ 96 02:09
 To   : Mark Jones
 Subj : Nuclear
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE 1.11+

 PA> er... The most common human mutation over the past 30 or so years
 PA> has not been very beneficial to the specie as a whole.
 PA> It's called "cancer"

 MJ> Do you know of any reputable medical authority which actually
 MJ> considers cancer a mutation--rather than a disease?  I don't.

        I've never actually seen an SR-71 either.

 MJ> Certainly cancers can be one of the results of exposure to
 MJ> dangerous levels of radiation.  That doesn't make it a mutation;

        Neither is radiation the sole cause of mutation.

 MJ> mutations don't occur in a single organism anyhow (comic book mutants
 MJ> aside).  From what I know of them, cancers seem more and more to the
 MJ> be result of an interaction between environmental factors and
 MJ> genetics.  Like many other diseases, you may be more or less likely to
 MJ> develop a cancer based on your genetic heritage--but environmental
 MJ> (and possibly behavior) influences can influence whether it actually
 MJ> occurs.
 MJ> And I believe cancers have been around for a very long time.  But
 MJ> no doubt the vast majority of cancers throughout history went
 MJ> undiagnosed.  Or misdiagnosed.

        I think you're overlooking the fact that not all mutations are
        beneficial to a specie.  Furthermore, they are developed at the
        genetic level.

        Albinism is a common enough mutation and, though we don't
        actively attempt to breed it out of the human strain, we
        actively encourage it in the higher rodentia.

        There is always mutation.  What the specie does with the
        mutation is what determines it's benefit.  Cancer serves to
        weed-out the genetically inferior.  Cells are regenerated
        incorrectly and, if the remainder of the body isn't strong
        enough, the cancer spreads to kill the body.  Genetic Suicide.

        It's not a disease per se.  You can't catch it.  Smoking doesn't
        cause it (ref: George Burns).  Certain substances facilitate its
        growth, but radiation, like asbestos doesn't guarantee cancer.


From the Office of the DeathMaster General
---
 þ Ùystertags v1.1 þ Don't turn your back:  Keep her out of danger
~~~ ReneWave v1.01 [NR]
--- Smile :)
 * Origin: * The Beast's Lair * (804)498-3070 * Va Beach VA * (1:275/160)

Ä [10] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 67 of 185
 From : Phill Ash                           1:275/160       .òp 16 .íâ 96 02:09
 To   : David Johnston
 Subj : Nuclear
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE 1.11+
From astride a Pale Horse, ùANATúô heard...

 -> DJ> Nope.  Merely more adapted to it's present environment.

 ->       er...
 ->       The most common human mutation over the past 30 or so years has
 ->       not been very beneficial to the specie as a whole.
 ->
 ->               It's called "cancer"

 DJ> Cancer isn't a mutation.  It's a replication error.

        Isn't that sort of like saying "it's not a car, it's a Buick" ?


From the Office of the DeathMaster General
... Bodies and bikes beyond repair - Smell of oil and gas in the air
---
 * Ùystertags v1.1 *
~~~ ReneWave v1.01 [NR]
--- Smile :)
 * Origin: * The Beast's Lair * (804)498-3070 * Va Beach VA * (1:275/160)

Ä [10] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 68 of 185
 From : Brion Lienhart                      1:213/700.2     .åò 11 .íâ 96 09:29
 To   : Tommy Kellerman
 Subj : Re: Cybersex
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On Sun Jan 07, Tommy Kellerman said to Michael Harper:

 MH>  Kristen Cloke is the dark-haired beauty who plays Vansen on Space:
 MH>  Above & Beyond. There's something about her that makes me want to grab
 MH>  her and run into the woods...

 -TK>And what would happen in there...?     =)

She would pull out the bayonet she got for christmass and eviscerate him.
8-(:-)




--- QM v1.31
 * Origin: Ministry of Peace - Carson City, NV (1:213/700.2)

Ä [10] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 69 of 185
 From : Brion Lienhart                      1:213/700.2     .åò 11 .íâ 96 09:36
 To   : Chip Griffin
 Subj : Re: nuclear BS
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On Mon Jan 08, Chip Griffin said to Brion Lienhart:

BL> and type of radiation. IIRC, for lead and gamma radiation it's 4 inches.
BL> I.E. if you stick 4" of lead between you and some radiation if you have 100
BL> rem on the unshielded side, you'll only have 10 rem on the other side, 8"
BL> and you'll only have 1 rem.

 -CG>I seem to recall it is 2" for lead.  Water was 10" I think.

Whatever. I got out of the Navy in 1985.


--- QM v1.31
 * Origin: Ministry of Peace - Carson City, NV (1:213/700.2)

Ä [10] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 70 of 185
 From : Owen E. Oulton                      1:243/45        .îí 15 .íâ 96 23:01
 To   : Nicolai Shapero
 Subj : Re: nuclear BS
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 CG>Gamma is a particle wave similar to light (but higher energy and
 CG>different wave length).  Your microwave emits these to cook your food.

 NS> I thought that microwaves used a somewhat different range of the
 NS> electromagnetic spectrum.  As in, radio band?

Looking through a few references, and doing a few conversions (Geez, why isn't
all this stuff on the same page of the same book, and using the same
measurements?  MegaHertz and metres and Angstroms, oh MY!  I'm sure I'll hear
about it if I got the math wrong...):

Microwaves are electromagnetic waves with a wavelength of less than 10m,
especially those betweem 1mm and 300mm.  Microwave ovens specifically use a
wavelength of 122.4mm (2450MHz).
The radio frequency band uses wavelengths between 1mm and 100,000m.
Gamma rays have a wavelength between 0.0000000005 and 0.000000145 mm.

Microwaves ARE in the radio frequency band.  They are most certainly not Gamma
rays...

CFN, O

--- Maximus 2.01wb
 * Origin: Pandora's Box, Ottawa, Ont. 613-829-1209 (1:243/45)

Ä [10] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 71 of 185
 From : Shawn Merrow                        1:3407/14       .òp 16 .íâ 96 13:37
 To   : Samantha Dobbs
 Subj : Re: Space: Above & Beyond
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

-> So who you like in the show? I like McQueen!!
->
-> Sam...

So far perty much everyone. I think they have put together a good cast.
THough Cooper is one of my favorites. Are their any specfic episoed you
would like to discuss.

--- QScan/PCB v1.16b / 01-0024
 * Origin:  (1:3407/14)

Ä [10] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 72 of 185
 From : Shawn Merrow                        1:3407/14       .òp 16 .íâ 96 13:53
 To   : All
 Subj : Star Trek Comics
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
DC and Marvel are merging in the end of Feburary. I've heard this will
play havoc with their regular title and a lot will be cancealed. Does
any one know if this will effect DC Star Trek line. Any information will
be appricated.

--- QScan/PCB v1.16b / 01-0024
 * Origin:  (1:3407/14)

Ä [10] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 73 of 185
 From : Mark Jones                          1:105/302.47    .cê 14 .íâ 96 23:18
 To   : Christian Raven
 Subj : VIRTUAL SEX
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On (12 Jan 96) Christian Raven wrote to Mark Jones...

 MJ> I'd say: yes, it is still sick. Because you're engaging a taste
 MJ> for inflicting misery on others--even if those others don't
 MJ> exist. I'd also defend your right to do it since no *real* person
 MJ> is being harmed. But I wouldn't care to associate with you much.
 CR>
 CR>   On the other hand, I've noticed that alot of men have these
 CR> "sadistical, psychotic" desires... perhaps it is simply our society
 CR> that teaches us that these are sick.  I'm not going to sit here and
 CR> seriously condone sexual sadism, but if it's all part of the male
 CR> psyche then perhaps crimes could be prevented through VR sex, eh?

   Maybe so.  Note that I am *not* referring to bondage games or S&M
of the sort a lot of people enjoy.  That's not my cup of tea, but as
long as everyone involved is there by choice, its fine with me.  I was
writing specifically about *true* sadism.


--- PPoint 1.78
 * Origin: Folcroft Sanitarium (hsmith@cure.com) (1:105/302.47)

Ä [10] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 74 of 185
 From : Mark Jones                          1:105/302.47    .cê 14 .íâ 96 23:25
 To   : J.T. Smith
 Subj : nuclear safety
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On (10 Jan 96) J.T. Smith wrote to Chip Griffin...

 JS> Bar the bang. Look at the water that they're having to cyphon off
 JS> into the atmosphere from TMI. BTW, did I forget to mention that
 JS> it's radioactive? Well guess what, it is! No thanks. I can think
 JS> of more fun ways to die. Nuc power isn't the best. There is
 JS> always better. Fossil fuels aren't it either as 1) they're a very
 JS> limited resources, and 2) they're known polutants.

What about the water?  HOW radioactive is it?  And for how long?

The everyday environment is measurably radioactive.

As for better sources of energy--name one.  One that is doable with
today's technology, at commercially-acceptable prices, and which can
generate the sort of immense power we need.


--- PPoint 1.78
 * Origin: Folcroft Sanitarium (hsmith@cure.com) (1:105/302.47)

Ä [10] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 75 of 185
 From : Todd Sullivan                       1:202/720.3     .òp 16 .íâ 96 11:13
 To   : David Johnston
 Subj : Nowhere Man
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
While substituting for Q, David Johnston took extreme delight in saying to
Stephen Adams, "You'll do anything I say?"  Stephen quailed when the words
"Nowhere Man" were uttered.

 ->> he showed any signs of recognition. I know a few people who WON'T
 ->> watch the show because it makes them feel uneasy; like they see too
 ->> much of themselves in the Tom Veil character!

 DJ> Do you know anyone who just balks at the utter implausibility of what
 DJ> is going on?

As I recall, the same premise was used in "`Crocodile' Dundee 2", and it worked
there.  Different emphasis and conclusion, but essentially the same.

And how implausible can Nowhere Man be to people who see a conspiracy in
anything that happensor has happened.  Recall /JFK/?  /Above/ /The/ /Law/?

Todd Sullivan

... These knights aren't bad once you get the hard shell off 'em.

-*- ASTG 1.9

--- Spot 1.3a Unregistered
 * Origin: Todd's Spot in the Continuum (1:202/720.3)

Ä [10] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 76 of 185
 From : Todd Sullivan                       1:202/720.3     .òp 16 .íâ 96 11:17
 To   : Jon Helis
 Subj : nuclear
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
While substituting for Q, Jon Helis took extreme delight in saying to Chip
Griffin, "You'll do anything I say?"  Chip quailed when the words "nuclear" were
uttered.

 -=>> Quoting Chip Griffin to David Durgee <=-

 DD>> What this country needs is more nukes and fewer kooks.

 CG>> Thank you, you have restored my faith in the sanity of people in
 CG>> general!  You are exactly correct.  The biggest problem with nuclear
 CG>> power in this country is the ignorance of the average American when it
 CG>> comes to the dangers etc of nuclear power.

 JH> Have you ever read any books by Dr. Helen Caldicott?  Her books
 JH> tell of what will happen in a nuclear war.  I read one in
 JH> highschool 12 years ago, it frightened me.

For the last time, nuclear power and nuclear weapons are *NOT* one and the same
thing.  Where does this insane fear of anything nuclear come from, amd when do
people with that phobia demand we put out the sun because it runs on nuclear
power?

Todd Sullivan

... "We kill many Pawnee, when they steal our reheasal copies of
     `Reluctant Debutante'."

-*- ASTG 1.9

--- Spot 1.3a Unregistered
 * Origin: Todd's Spot in the Continuum (1:202/720.3)

Ä [10] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 77 of 185
 From : Todd Sullivan                       1:202/720.3     .òp 16 .íâ 96 11:24
 To   : Chris Ogniben
 Subj : Democracy?
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
While substituting for Q, Chris Ogniben took extreme delight in saying to
Nicolai Shapero, "You'll do anything I say?"  Nicolai quailed when the words
"More faves..." were uttered.

 CO>    There isn't anything else other than Democracy.. So there is no
 CO> change, unless you want to go to communism, which i don't care if we
 CO> do.

FidoNet is not a democracy, no matter what you might think.  It's not socialism,
either (get your political terminology straight before you make comparisons).
The Moderator is the undisputed authority; if not, nobody could have an
intelligent discussion, nor would anything happen but endless flames and
name-calling.  If you don't like it, your options are:

1)  Get with the program;
2)  Leave.

Simple, Nes't-ce pas?

(Sorry, Nicolai, but he's not only wrong, he's ignorantly wrong)

Todd Sullivan

... "I never knew so young a body with so old a head." --Shakespeare

-*- ASTG 1.9

--- Spot 1.3a Unregistered
 * Origin: Todd's Spot in the Continuum (1:202/720.3)

Ä [10] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 78 of 185
 From : Jon Helis                           1:3800/25       .îí 15 .íâ 96 00:55
 To   : All
 Subj : Re: JMS Stuff 12/12  [1/4
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 * Originally By: Jon Helis
 * Originally To: Mark Millington
 * Originally Re: Re: JMS Stuff 12/12  [1/4
 * Original Area: BABYLON5 - Ba
 * Forwarded by : Blue Wave v2.12

 -=> Quoting Mark Millington to All <=-

 MM> * Originally By: Dirk Loedding
 MM> * Original Area: ILink (Babylon 5)

 >>> Part 1 of 5...

 >First, some GEnie posts:

 >General comments:
 MM> Glenn: regarding residuals...you would, of course, be quite
 MM> correct IF B5 was going into regular syndication after it's finished.
 MM> But it's going to TNT.  See, in regular broadcast syndication, your
 MM> residuals are a percentage of your original payment.  In cable, it's a
 MM> percentage of what the cable network paid for the show.  So as an
 MM> example...if my Murder, She Wrote episodes were playing in broadcast
 MM> syndication, my first payment would be about $14,000, second about
 MM> $10,000, then it drops until you get to about $500 then it kinda stays
 MM> there.  Instead, M,SW was sold to USA.   You know what my first
 MM> residual  was there?  $24.  And it goes down from there, to where the
 MM> WGA doesn't  even bother collecting them anymore, 'cause you're looking
 MM> at a couple  of dollars here and there.
 MM>
 MM> The problem is that the WGA allowed huge discounts for cable, back
 MM> when it was just starting...and hasn't corrected this now that cable
 MM> is  HUGE.  And who gets screwed?  Us.
 MM> jms

The writers are getting screwed bigtime for all the work they
did.  I think the viewers are too.  I contacted my local cable
company, TCI, and found I would have to pay $26/month for basic
cable, plus $20 for installation.  In my area, all 7 networks
are available on over the air TV, with pretty good reception.
If JMS is getting so little and and I'm going to have to pay so
much, where is the money going?  The viewers are paying more to
get the programming while those who poured alot of work into
them are getting less, why?  I cast my vote by, instead of
giving $46 to TCI, I gave $27 to Radio Shack for a set of rabbit
ears for the top of my TV that were on sale.  It's going to get
to the point where if you want more than talk shows and
infomercials, you're going to have to pay a bunch of corporate
fat cats for it.  America's system of free TV is going down the
tubes unless we the viewers do something about it, like
boycotting cable, dishes, etc., or just turning our TVs off
altogether and getting online.

My 2 cents.


... "He who can follow his own will is a king." Ä Irish Proverb
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

--- PCBoard (R) v15.22/M 10
 * Origin: * DataCom BBS - Baton Rouge, La. -  (504)275-2605 - @dcbbs.com *
(1:3800/25)

Ä [10] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 79 of 185
 From : Jon Helis                           1:3800/25       .îí 15 .íâ 96 01:32
 To   : Channon Lang
 Subj : Re: B5 -- Coincidence?
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 -=> Quoting Channon Lang to Jeff Hancock <=-

 CL> From a dark bottomless pit,Jeff Hancock screamed up to Star Hawk about
 CL> B5 -- Coincidence?..

 CL> Did you ever see the TV shows of "Hitchhiker's Guide"? What a
 CL> classic!
 CL> Channon

I've seen it several times, and you're right, it is a classic.

Have you ever heard the radio version of it?  That's a real
classic too!




... Treaspassers will be shot first...interrogated later.
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

--- PCBoard (R) v15.22/M 10
 * Origin: * DataCom BBS - Baton Rouge, La. -  (504)275-2605 - @dcbbs.com *
(1:3800/25)

Ä [10] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 80 of 185
 From : Jon Helis                           1:3800/25       .îí 15 .íâ 96 01:44
 To   : Dean Sweatman
 Subj : Re: New Orleans Vision Sh
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Great Con Report!

I did enjoy the Con, but it could have been more efficiently
run, like you said.  According to the Sunday Times Picayune,
1200 people went through that Saturday.

I had a chance to visit with Mark Goddard and David Prowse at
their tables.  Goddard told me that he had hoped to do a B5
episode last season, but wasn't able to due to other
commitments.  That would have been nice to see.

I had hoped to meet some fans from the Baton Rouge area, but
didn't find anyone.  Better luck next time I guess.

Keep in touch.

73,

Jon Helis
aka Number Six


... "Hey, Rocky!  Watch me pull Dean outta my hat!"
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

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Ä [10] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 81 of 185
 From : Jon Helis                           1:3800/25       .îí 15 .íâ 96 02:02
 To   : Stephen Adams
 Subj : Re: NOWHERE MAN
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 -=> Quoting Stephen Adams to Mark Jones <=-
 SA> On 01/12/96 at 17:53, MARK JONES, cyberspace traveller,
 SA> grabbed the attention of STEPHEN ADAMS by uttering these words...
 SA> *** NOWHERE MAN ***
 SA> which leads to this exchange:

 SA> My take on this show is that it is to present to the audience what it
 SA> is that  *Tom* is feeling, seeing, and/or experiencing. How many times
 SA> in your own  lives have behavior changes in other people left us
 SA> wondering what was going  on? (When I say other people, I'm talking
 SA> about loved ones and friends that  we care deeply for and implicitly
 SA> trust.) And of those times, in how many of  them did we get a
 SA> sufficient explanation as to why they did what they did?  Not
 SA> everything in life gets explained with some "heavy-duty"
 SA> justification,  and it appears that Nowhere Man's production staff is
 SA> just following this  concept.

 SA> For me, it is this overall *lack* of justification that brings me to
 SA> watch  the next episode! I, too, have become part of Tom's search for
 SA> answers!  :)
 SA> This is not to say, in my opinion, that Nowhere Man's story is based
 SA> squarely  upon The Conspiracy trying to get hold of the negatives. It
 SA> is, I feel, just  a vehicle to get to the real story; that being *the
 SA> search* by Tom for an  explanation, any explanation, as to why someone
 SA> or some group would want to  completely destroy his life.

 SA> Regarding the negatives. Throughout this series, everyone has tried to
 SA> get  Tom's negatives, but he has managed to hide them in some pretty
 SA> unique  places. Besides, he's got the negatives scattered all
 SA> throughout the  country!

 SA> That's why I think this show is truly about *how* one person feels,
 SA> and it  excels in this. The viewer doesn't get justification as to why
 SA> everybody is  out to get Tom, because *he* doesn't get any
 SA> justification.  :)
 SA> BTW, since you haven't been watching the series, every character who
 SA> has  attempted to assist Tom has either been killed or hurt by The
 SA> Conspiracy.  With the exception of Tom's wife and mother, no other
 SA> characters have  appeared again in any episode. The wife and mother
 SA> characters have appeared  in only one other episode since the pilot;
 SA> that being the one I told you  about.

Did you see it this week?  The show has taken an interesting
turn,  hasn't it?  Tom has been offered leads on how to find the
people who did it to him.  Is he going to make use of them?
What will he find in his search, now that he has new clues?
What consequences will there be from Tom's killing the man who
supposedly ordered the erasure of his life?

It left me wanting more!


... With so many lawyers, why experiment on animals?
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

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(1:3800/25)

Ä [10] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 82 of 185
 From : Jon Helis                           1:3800/25       .îí 15 .íâ 96 02:10
 To   : Eric Reinholt
 Subj : Re: Prisoner movie
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 -=> Quoting Eric Reinholt to Frank Swarbrick <=-

 ER> @MSGID: 1:2604/309 8904FF5C
 ER> On 01-11-96 FRANK SWARBRICK wrote to ALL...

 ER> STOP!  (Which was also the name of a proposed movie which
 ER> McGoohan was hoping to produce around the time of the end of
 ER> "The Prisoner.")

 FS> Dunno if anyone's posted this yet...  I read an article in the paper
 FS> today that said that Patrick MacGoohan has signed on to write and
 FS> produce a motion picture based on his old tv series The Prisoner.  He
 FS> won't play the main character, but he may play another role.

 FS> Personally, I'm not sure how well the show would translate to the
 FS> modern silver screen, but with MacGoohan (is that right?) being
 FS> responsible for it there's certainly hope.  We shall see...

 ER> Modern screen?  With the success of tribute/spin offs like
 ER> "Nowhere Man" and "Babylon 5"?  It seems that there's more of
 ER> "us" out there than I would have thought.  I hope it does
 ER> justice to the original.  The Prisoner most definitely
 ER> influenced how I thought about such concepts as "The
 ER> Individual" and "Self-Identity."

Good point.  Nowhere Man is similar to the Prisoner in many
ways.  Babylon 5 has borrowed from it too, including the famous
fish salute and the phrase "Be Seeing You."

Prisoner influenced my opinions on those concepts as well.  He
fought against being a number and won(maybe).  He cries of "I am
not a number, I am a free man!" became my battle cry.

Nowhere Man deals with the subject of Identity.  Tom Veil has
had his taken away from him, and wants it back.  If he ever gets
it remains to be seen.



... "All I ever get, is a definite maybe, no decision, no decision"-Kinks
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

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Ä [10] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 83 of 185
 From : Jon Helis                           1:3800/25       .îí 15 .íâ 96 02:33
 To   : Chris Myers
 Subj : Re: Star Trek - up and co
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 -=> Quoting Chris Myers to Nicolai Shapero <=-

 CM> Hi.  I am a new "kid" on this system, I just wanted to say I agree
 CM> that the new shows you mentioned are certainly equal to competing with
 CM> Star Trek.

 CM> That Alien Nation Movie you mentioned was pretty good and I am really
 CM> getting into Space:Above and Beyond.  I really liked Babylon 5 but I
 CM> can find it broadcast on any of the local (Rochester) stations.  I
 CM> cancelled cable because it wasn't worth $30/ month to watch TV.

The Alien Nation movies have been good.  I'm also pleased with
Space:Above and Beyond.  When I first heard about it, I was
skeptical, but the series has turned out to be great.  Alot of
action, and great characters too.

Babylon 5 is another show I'm really into.  I try not to miss
it.  All of these series have been successful not imitating
Trek.  However, you'll run into people here and in other places
who won't accept anything that isn't Trek connected.  If that's
how they want to be, so be it.

As for cable TV, when I moved to this city(Baton Rouge,
Louisiana) a few weeks ago, I called to find out about getting
cable.  $26/month, $20 installation.  After calling them and
being placed on hold, I was told to beep my area representative,
when I wanted to set up a day to set it up(one week from the day
I called), I was told that it couldn't be done, because of it
depended on what the office would assign her.  I was told I
could get it installed the next day, but my work schedule
wouldn't allow that.  I've dealt with other cable companies that
have been accomodating, but these people weren't even trying to
work with me.  What I decided to do was go to Radio Shack and
give them $27 for an antenna to put on top of the TV, which
cleared up my reception problems.  I don't miss cable at all, I
can get all 6 commercial networks and a good PBS station(that
has Dr. Who, Red Dwarf, and some Britcoms) clearly, so what else
do I need?

 CM> I've been disappointed the last couple weeks that Voyager was rerun
 CM> and I missed DS9.

Voyager was finally a new episode this week.  Good episode too,
directed by Jonathan Frakes.

DS9 this week was the second half of a 2 parter that was
fantastic!  Catch it in reruns or get a tape from someone if you
can.

Welcome to the echo, I'm sure you'll have a good time in here.

Jon




... Line noise provided by BellSouth Telephone!
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

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Ä [10] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 84 of 185
 From : Jon Helis                           1:3800/25       .îí 15 .íâ 96 02:36
 To   : Eric Reinholt
 Subj : Re: Star Trek and others
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 -=> Quoting Eric Reinholt to Chris Ogniben <=-

 ER> On 01-10-96 CHRIS OGNIBEN wrote to ERIC REINHOLT...

 ER> Well I would if time weren't a factor.  I used to be a big Star
 ER> Trek fan (and I still am, I have just about everything on video
 ER> tape and literally thousands of dollars in Star Trek
 ER> merchandise collected over my thirty odd years) but now-a-days
 ER> I've devoted my Science Fiction time to reading the established
 ER> classics (just finished reading the play "R.U.R."), writing

There is an English translation of "R.U.R." available?  I've
been wanting to read this for a very long time.  Where were you
able to find such a gem?
... "All of this generosity has made me tired!" -- The Cat
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

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Ä [10] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 85 of 185
 From : Will Morgan                         1:3819/128.103  .òp 16 .íâ 96 01:11
 To   : All
 Subj : Sci-Fi/Fantasy A.E.G.'s
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Attention DOS, OS/2 and Windows users who are Sci-Fi/Fantasy TV Buffs:
I've released a series of DOS/DOS4GW, OS/2 and Windows programs that may
be of interest to you! They're called "Automated Episode Guides" because
they make it easy to sift through the info for each episode of various
popular TV shows. Currently, there are SEVERAL different A.E.G.'s available
as described below, but I will be releasing more in the future.

What they are: The OS/2 version is a 32 bit text mode menu-driven program
that automates the process of viewing information on popular television shows.
The DOS versions are 32 bit Extended DOS/DOS4GW text mode programs that are
almost identical to the OS/2 Text version. The 16 bit Windows & 32 bit OS/2
Presentation Manager programs take full advantage of the easy-to-use features
of their respective operating systems (drop-down menus, dialogue boxes, etc.)

The TV shows that are currently available (the final two ##s denote the
current version number which may vary as I release program updates):

                    Filename      Filename     Filename       Filename
TV Show Name    |  32 bit DOS    OS/2 Text      OS/2 PM    16 bit Windows
========================================================================
Mystery Science   MSTDOS12.ZIP  MSTOS212.ZIP  MST_PM10.ZIP  MSTWIN10.ZIP
Theater 3000
------------------------------------------------------------------------
The X-Files       XFLDOS10.ZIP  XFLOS211.ZIP  XFL_PM10.ZIP  XFLWIN10.ZIP
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Quantum Leap      QLPDOS10.ZIP  QLPOS210.ZIP  Coming Soon!  Coming Soon!
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Star Trek:        TNGDOS10.ZIP  TNGOS210.ZIP  Coming Soon!  TNGWIN10.ZIP
Next Generation
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Star Trek:        TOSDOS10.ZIP  TOSOS210.ZIP  TOS_PM10.ZIP  TOSWIN10.ZIP
Original Series
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Deep Space 9      DS9DOS10.ZIP  DS9OS210.ZIP  DS9_PM10.ZIP  DS9WIN10.ZIP
------------------------------------------------------------------------
The Simpsons      SMPDOS10.ZIP  SMPOS210.ZIP  Coming Soon!  Coming Soon!
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Babylon 5         BA5DOS10.ZIP  BA5OS210.ZIP  BA5_PM10.ZIP  BA5WIN10.ZIP
========================================================================
Where you can get them: The OS/2 Text & PM versions are available on the
FTP sites ftp.cdrom.com & hobbes.nmsu.edu (paths may vary since the files
are moved after verification).

The DOS versions are available from the huge SimTel DOS software FTP
sites and their mirror sites, such as ftp.coast.net under the path
/SimTel/msdos/entertn

The Windows versions will also be available from the SimTel sites, such
as ftp.coast.net under the path /SimTel/win3/entertn

*ALL* versions are available on the FTP site at clover.cleaf.com, which
is where I release all Snake-Byte programs. This site is a bit primitive
and can only handle a small amount of FTPs at one time, so if you can't
get on, try back later. The path is /pub/mst3k/snake-byte (for the MST3K
programs) and /pub/mst3k/snake-byte/NON-MST3K (for all others, look for
the filenames listed above).

Fidonet BBS's that carry the various Snake-Byte Inc. A.E.G.'s follow.
Please Note: The "Official" Fido Snake-Byte Inc. file site is X-Capade
BBS. *ALL* Snake-Byte Inc. programs are available from this site at *ALL*
times. Sysops can FREQ the above filenames or the "Magic Name" listed
below for a current version of this message with available filenames.

Board Name              Location         Fido Address  Phone Number    FREQ
============================================================================
X-Capade BBS          Texarkana, TX       1:3819/190   1-903-793-0166  AEG


--- PPoint 2.00
 * Origin: Automated EpGuides by Snake-Byte Inc. (1:3819/128.103)

Ä [10] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 86 of 185
 From : Jerry Van Kooten                    2:280/901.37    .îí 15 .íâ 96 21:35
 To   : Darren Lovatt
 Subj : Red Dwarf / TNG crossover
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Hi Darren,

Quoting <Darren Lovatt> to <Jerry Van Kooten> (12-Jan-96, 07:39:04)
Subject: <Red Dwarf / TNG crossover>

[ samples of texts ]

 DL> Will do ! See next message !

Great! Thanks a lot. OK, I'm interested.

 DL> REDTREK.ZIP     29K     Red Dwarf meets the next generation
 DL> SMEG_GEN.ARJ    25K     Dwarf Trek - The Smeggy Generation

Is it possible to attach files this size to a netmail? Where is your BBS,
Denmark? A bit expensive for me (from Holland).

See you,
Jerry

--- Terminate 3.00/Pro
 * Origin: There's an old droid saying: 001100101101001010001110 (2:280/901.37)

Ä [10] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 87 of 185
 From : Frank Glover                        1:2613/477      .òp 16 .íâ 96 20:50
 To   : Chris Thurman
 Subj : Re: Science Fiction
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

CT>  The reason I didn't put the area code is because if you don't live in
CT>  Ct. then don't call him.  I don't think that you should worry about
CT>  what I wrote unless you're gay.  Of course he didn't want his number
CT>  plastered up, I said that when I wrote the bulletin.  I was playin a
CT>  joke on him so mind your own business.

   Hey, be nice! WE don't know you're in Conneticut just by looking at the
flipping message, and neither would anyone else on this *international* echo,
including someone living close enough to do your friend some good!

   Frank


--- QuickBBS 2.80 GoldBase (Zeta-1)
 * Origin: The Matrix Data Bank BBS, Rochester, Ny (1:2613/477)

Ä [10] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 88 of 185
 From : Frank Glover                        1:2613/477      .òp 16 .íâ 96 20:57
 To   : Mark Jones
 Subj : Re: VIRTUAL SEX
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

MJ>     Yep.  In reality, I suspect the holodecks would get extensive use
MJ>  as a holo-brothel.  (This being the Federation, though, that of
MJ>  course
MJ>  doesn't happen much....  Yeah.  Right.)

   Well, maybe not on Star Fleet ships (probably something similar to the
physical harm limitations, a hardwired `no sex scenarios' subroutine), but
again, there's private systems like Quark's holosuites....

MJ>     There's big money to be made in this field one day.

   If adult CD roms like `Virtual Valerie' are any clue, you can count on it...

   Frank


--- QuickBBS 2.80 GoldBase (Zeta-1)
 * Origin: The Matrix Data Bank BBS, Rochester, Ny (1:2613/477)

Ä [10] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 89 of 185
 From : Frank Glover                        1:2613/477      .òp 16 .íâ 96 21:04
 To   : Christian Raven
 Subj : Re: VIRTUAL SEX
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

CR>  KA>  FG>    Me, I can see it now; "Computer, run program `Madonna1,
CR>  version
CR>  KA> 3."
CR>
CR>  KA> Madonna?  YEEEEEESH.  For your sake, I hope the program
CR>  crashes...
CR>
CR>    Either that or dont leave the real world without some Virtual
CR>  Protection (perhaps by Norton: Virtual D... Doctor)..

   In virtual reality, one should practice safe hex, eh?

   You know, this could be somewhat less virtual if it involved a full sensor
contact suit as seen in The Lawnmower Man. The couple there were simply a few
feet apart, tied into the same system, but with a sufficently wide bandwith
connection, they could be thousands of miles apart (up to the limit of
noticeable speed of light delays). This would be in a gray area between virtual
reality and telepresence.

   And it could give a whole new meaning to the concept of `computer dating'....

   Frank


--- QuickBBS 2.80 GoldBase (Zeta-1)
 * Origin: The Matrix Data Bank BBS, Rochester, Ny (1:2613/477)

Ä [10] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 90 of 185
 From : Frank Glover                        1:2613/477      .òp 16 .íâ 96 22:20
 To   : David Johnston
 Subj : Re: Tv And Sf
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

DJ>  -> For one thing, in democracies such a man must be currently
DJ>  literate
DJ>  -> in the sciences to effectively vote intelligently on scientific
DJ>  -> issues.
DJ>
DJ>  When did scientific issues become particularly a matter of popular
DJ>  vote?

   Science itself doesn't care about the will of the majority, but politicians
who take stands on science-related issues (space exploration, nuclear power,
genetics and bioethics, environment, etc.) do.

   Unfortunately, it's been my experience that most of the public and most
politicians are scientifically too ignorant for *intelligent* voting. (anyone
can vote from the gut, or even flip a coin) I see his point.

   I take no sides on the rest of his message, though.

   Frank


--- QuickBBS 2.80 GoldBase (Zeta-1)
 * Origin: The Matrix Data Bank BBS, Rochester, Ny (1:2613/477)

Ä [10] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 91 of 185
 From : Tony Trujillo                       1:280/9         .òp 16 .íâ 96 12:12
 To   : Myra I Fox
 Subj : Re: Tom Holt & PTerry
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE 1.11+

 TT>> GO AWAY! I DIDN'T WRITE THAT! AHHH! GET OUT OF MY HEAD!
 MI> Hi, Tony... what *were* we talking about?  The subject line says
 MI> PTerry and Holt.

Actually, I didn't write that....if you were to go back
check the origin line from that message it came from another
person....however it was posted with my name. I can't
believe there is more than one Tony Trujillo floating around
on the net. Possible...but not probable! :^)

 MI> I am reading "Who's Afraid of Beowulf?" now. I couldn't
 MI> find it in the ubs and I have it on loan from a friend.

I wish I could find my copy. It's around here somewhere but
I can't seem to locate it.


... "Oh bother!" said Pooh, as the retro-rockets misfired
--- Via Silver Xpress V4.02B03 SW01177
 * Origin: South of the River - Overland Park KS - (913)642-7907 V.* (1:280/9)

Ä [10] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 92 of 185
 From : Tony Trujillo                       1:280/9         .òp 16 .íâ 96 12:25
 To   : Tommy Kellerman
 Subj : Re: Tom Holt & PTerry
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE 1.11+

 TT>> GO AWAY! I DIDN'T WRITE THAT! AHHH! GET OUT OF MY HEAD!
 TK> Que?

Sorry, Tom...somebody else wrote that using my name. I'm
usually a little more intelligent than that...well...maybe
not much more but I assure you it wasn't me who wrote that.

Now...with that out of the way I notice you're accessing the
echo from Sweden. It's sure nice to meet folks half way
around the world via the computer networks. What kinds of
SF do you like?



... You have a collective call from Borg, will you accept the charges?
--- Via Silver Xpress V4.02B03 SW01177
 * Origin: South of the River - Overland Park KS - (913)642-7907 V.* (1:280/9)

Ä [10] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 93 of 185
 From : Brandon Wolgast                     1:363/216       .òp 16 .íâ 96 02:07
 To   : Samantha Dobbs
 Subj : Re: Space: Above & Beyond
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: HyperMail! v1.21 94-0049

SD>HEY!!! Nice to see not everyone likes Star Trek! Let me ask you... Do you
SD>think the show has gotten better since the pilot? I didn't like the pilot cu
SD>McQueen was a bit of a hard ass on the 58th. HE has gotten better. Who you
SD>like on the show?

I think it has gotten a lot better since the pilot. Although now the
Chigs(sp) are being made out to be wimps. I mean come on, I would like
to see their carrier or something get one good thrashing, perhaps have
one episode that ends TERRIBLY for the "good guys."  I have only missed
one episode, that being this weeks when (I can't spell her name) the
black girl gets the psi powers.  I can't say how that one was, but
unlike the previews said I heard no one died, well not a main character
at least. Oh well.  I do really enjoy the show, although is it a rule
that all the AI's must be like models?  Oh well.

Who do I like on the show? Well I really like McQueen, he is just a good
actor, and an all around "cool guy." I have always liked Vansen, mainly
at first I was like, "Wow, she's fine." And now I just like her part, I
mean she is still fine of course =) but I really do enjoy her character.
I don't like (I'll try it here) Danpheus(sp), West, well, he is just
kinda "there" now, Hawks, I like him better since he got his haircut, I
honestly forgot the asians name (it's 2:10am as I type this) but he is
cool.  I know I'm missing some, but my favorites are Vansen and McQueen.
The most horrible episode to me so far has been their "Christmas" one.
Pretty sad.  I don't really have a favorite one, the one called "Fredd
Butt's" was pretty hilarious, I enjoyed that one.

What about you?

---
 * OLX 2.1 TD * Hello, I am part number ||#||||#||#||#||

--- HyperMail! v1.21
 * Origin: Data Systems Internat'l (407)292-8009 Call Today! (1:363/216)

Ä [10] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 94 of 185
 From : Mark Jones                          1:105/302.47    .îí 15 .íâ 96 22:57
 To   : Bianca Wesslak
 Subj : VIRTUAL SEX
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On (12 Jan 96) Bianca Wesslak wrote to Mark Jones...

 MJ> I'd say: yes, it is still sick. Because you're engaging a taste
 MJ> for inflicting misery on others--even if those others don't
 MJ> exist. I'd also defend your right to do it since no *real* person
 MJ> is being harmed. But I wouldn't care to associate with you much.

 BW> But how would you know that he particpated in twisted virtual
 BW> sex? Haven't you ever had any violent thoughts. This here would
 BW> be the perfect arena to act them out without getting criminally
 BW> prosecuted, being guilty. Perfect to do when you are truly ticked
 BW> off. We all have a dark and twisted areas in our psyche's, this
 BW> would be a good therapy without having to pay high exorbiant
 BW> fee's at a psychotherapist office.

Obviously, I wouldn't know he was practicing vivisection on virtual
human subjects...unless I found out.  And if I found out, I'd be
appalled.  I wouldn't try to stop him--it *is* all make-believe, after
all--but the simple fact that he *enjoyed* torturing make-believe
victims would worry me.

I don't know that it would be good therapy, though.  I think of
therapy as being aimed at improving someone's mental health.  This
kind of virtual sadism might help him function normally in the real
world, but I don't know that it would be therapeutic.  (Sort of like
an adulterous spouse confining his sexual antics to the virtual
reality parlor.  Yes, its true that he isn't *actually* sleeping with
anyone but his wife, but...he isn't being really monogomous either.)

 BW> someone's imagination. Haven't you ever wished someone a cruel
 BW> and unusual punishment? If so are you not then participating in
 BW> sadistically tomenting behavior??

Does wishing bone cancer on someone count?

Yes, we can get into a very gray area here.  Where do we draw a line
between simply imagining something and acting it out in virtual
reality?  I think we'd all draw the line in different places--one of
the reasons I wouldn't draw a *legal* line at all.


--- PPoint 1.78
 * Origin: Folcroft Sanitarium (hsmith@cure.com) (1:105/302.47)

Ä [10] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 95 of 185
 From : David Durgee                        1:109/458       .pä 17 .íâ 96 10:18
 To   : Ken Mayes
 Subj : Re: nuclear bs
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: InterEcho 1.14 6E011108
In a message dated 01-1596, Ken Mayes said to Barton Paul Levenson:

KM>        The fact that the nuclear industry still pushes for more and more
KM>reactors despite losses in the billions tells me that there is someone
KM>somewhere making a killing figuratively if not literally.

The losses you speak of are due to the endless paperwork and needless delays
and research and tests imposed upon building the plant in the first place.
Nuclear technology is well developed and understood in all areas, there is
no need for many of the ridiculous regulatory requirements placed upon them.
If you don't believe me on this, take a look at europe where a much greater
part of their power is nuclear generated.  Their nuclear industry is not
bound by the endless red tape we have before a nuclear plant comes on-line.

Hysteria on the part of anti-nuclear activists out to build a name for
themselves at our expense is the cause of most of our outrageous expenses in
building additional nuclear power plants in this country.  What we need here
is more nukes and less kooks!

Dave
---
 * MR/2 2.22 NR * Deja moo: The feeling you've heard all this bull before.


--- InterEcho 1.14
 * Origin: The Shoreline BBS  - (301) 946-2771 - Silver Spring, MD (1:109/458)


Ä [10] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 96 of 185
 From : Robert Siemborski                   1:2604/214      .òp 16 .íâ 96 20:45
 To   : Chris Ogniben
 Subj : Re: NOWHERE MAN
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 >  I think Nowhere Man stinks, and that is why i don't watch it

Why?  The most recent episode (1-15) was execellent.  If that keeps up it looks
like a great second season.

- Rob -

--- SLMAIL v4.5a  (#1409)
 * Origin: Bits 'N Bytes BBS - Leonia, NJ - (201) 346-1661 - 28.8k Connections!
(1:2604/214)

Ä [10] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 97 of 185
 From : Christian Raven                     1:393/7         .òp 16 .íâ 96 18:20
 To   : Frank Glover
 Subj : Re: VIRTUAL SEX
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

FG>
FG>
FG> CR>  that teaches us that these are sick.  I'm not going to sit here and
FG> CR>  seriously condone sexual sadism, but if it's all part of the male
FG> CR>  psyche then perhaps crimes could be prevented through VR sex, eh?
FG>
FG>    Or explored as a psychiatric tool. (It's already been applied to  treat
FG> those with a fear of heights.)
FG>
FG>    Or...as a conditioning/brainwashing tool. Which brings us back to
FG> Brainstorm, and a Next Generation episode where the Romulans captured
FG> Geordi, and fed him selected inputs through his Visor connections....
FG>

  yes... and that brings up an intersting idea... not about virtual sex, but
consider this: if all we are is the sum of our memories (which is debatable),
then it would be possible, with the aid of virtual sensory equipment, to bring
up a newborn child in a virtual world, thereby controlling who and what he will
become... which leads us to.. what if that has already been accomplished?
                                               ..c.raven..
--- CNet/3
 * Origin: The Bard's Tavern Denton, TX (817)243-5110 USR 28.8   (1:393/7)

Ä [10] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 98 of 185
 From : Marco Catalano                      2:2802/152.3    .ÿò 12 .íâ 96 12:29
 To   : Trevor Pack
 Subj : X-files
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Hello Trevor!


Monday January 08 1996, Trevor Pack writes to Marco Catalano:

 TP> My favorite episode is the one about voodoo. Did you see the one about
 TP> killer cochroaches? TTYL\

Not yet, Trevor.
We're running a little behind with the show here, so perhaps the next week or
so..

Do you remember the episode "Ice" ?
It was the one in wich M&S went to a scientific research station at the ice cap.
The scientist all went beserk because of these organisms, wich grew inside their
brains and drove them mad.

It was an early episode.


Greetings from Marco
BYE!



... Bug updates, Usual result: two new bugs...

--- FMail/386 1.02
 * Origin: Co-Sysyop Rakker BBS. Capelle, The Netherlands (2:2802/152.3)

Ä [10] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 99 of 185
 From : Nicolai Shapero                     1:102/524       .òp 16 .íâ 96 06:46
 To   : Chris Thurman
 Subj : Science Fiction
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Jan 14 13:50>, Chris Thurman (1:141/415) wrote to Nicolai Shapero:

 CT>Listen up buddy, what I wrote concerned science fiction, and it
 CT>was a hell of a lot more interesting that anything else that was
 CT>being posted.  I understand that this is not the dating game, but
 CT>I wrote something that people like to read, not "do you like star
 CT>trek, what do you think spock's middle name is."  That garbage
 CT>put me to bed, if you don't want the dating game then livin up
 CT>your boring science fiction talk!

If that's your attitude, take it somewhere else.  You just earned a 90 day
suspension.  If you post to this conference again before 1 May (allowing for net
lag) the suspension will become permanent.

-- Nicolai Shapero, Moderator of the SFFAN echo

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Ä [10] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 100 of 185
 From : Nicolai Shapero                     1:102/524       .òp 16 .íâ 96 06:48
 To   : Chris Thurman
 Subj : Re: Science Fiction
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Jan 14 13:53>, Chris Thurman (1:141/415) wrote to Frank Glover:

 CT>bulletin.  I was playin a joke on him so mind your own business.

This sort of behavior is not acceptable in this conference.

-- Nicolai Shapero, Moderator of the SFFAN echo

--- msged 2.06
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Ä [10] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 101 of 185
 From : Nicolai Shapero                     1:102/524       .òp 16 .íâ 96 06:51
 To   : Chris Myers
 Subj : Re: Star Trek - up and co
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Jan 14 09:02>, Chris Myers (1:2613/313@) wrote to Nicolai Shapero:

 CM>I've been disappointed the last couple weeks that Voyager was
 CM>rerun and
 CM>I missed DS9.

This week had a new episode of ST:VOYAGER.  Not bad, though the "punchline" (if
you will) was telegraphed.  I just wish they'd get better writers for the show.

-- Nicolai Shapero, the Mad Russian Sysop of StormGate Aerie


--- msged 2.06
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Ä [10] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 102 of 185
 From : Nicolai Shapero                     1:102/524       .òp 16 .íâ 96 06:56
 To   : All
 Subj : Msg 0 of 3: Rules
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
What follows is an abbreviated version of the rules for SFFAN:

Discussions of SF Fandom, Trek, Media, Who, Anime, and any literary
SF topic are "in bounds".  Related technical discussions are also
allowed, but if they go too far afield, ye moderator reserves the
right to shut down the topic at any time without further warning.
Fantasy, by the by, is on topic.  Keep the comments clean and above
the belt -- personal attacks are unacceptable (remember though, that
to attack an idea is NOT the same as attacking the holder of that
idea).

Commercial messages (anything that solicits money) are OFF TOPIC.

The moderator reserves the right to add new rules as the situation
demands.

Violators of rules may be warned in netmail, will be warned in the
echo, and are subject to suspension of SFFAN echomail priviledges
if they refuse to comply with the echo rules.  Sysops who refuse to
police their users (or themselves) on this echo are subject to
having their feeds cut without warning -- yes, I do hold sysops to
a higher standard.  A list of users and sysops on probation and
suspension is included in the detailed rules, which are posted
at roughly one month intervals.

The word of the moderator is the word of god.  Once the edict is
issued, please take any further comments and/or discussions to netmail.
This is not a democracy.  In the event of my disappearance of early
demise, my wife Kay Shapero will take my place.  If both of us
disappear without having time to appoint an heir to the echo, you
will likely have to fight it out with the FidoNet bureaucracy...

-- Nicolai Shapero, Moderator of SFFAN



--- msged 2.06
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Ä [10] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 103 of 185
 From : Nicolai Shapero                     1:102/524       .òp 16 .íâ 96 06:56
 To   : All
 Subj : Msg 1 of 3: Rules
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
                  Rules for SFFAN (Message 1 of 3)

This humble (?) individual, also  known as the moderator of the SFFAN
echo, intends that  this echo be  used for discussions of any subject
related to SF fandom. So: Trek, Who, Anime are all acceptable topics.
Of course, any literary sf topic is  obviously "in bounds".   Related
technical discussions  are also allowable, but try not to go off into
"my computer is better than your computer" arguments.  And, oh yes, I
also allow discussions of role playing games (fantasy and otherwise).
After all, RPGers are frequently sffen too!  (Just try to keep things
VAGUELY in the sf/fantasy area in your discussions, please?)  FANTASY
IS ON  TOPIC.  FANTASY IS ON TOPIC.  FANTASY IS ON TOPIC.  And what I
tell you three times is true...

Once ye olde moderator  declares a thread "off topic" PLEASE DROP THE
SUBJECT.  Take any further comments to NETMAIL.  Repeated infractions
of this rule can result in nastygrams from the Moderator...

Personal attacks are to  be kept off  the echo; but  remember that to
attack the idea is NOT the same thing as attacking the holder of that
idea. Keep things "nice" -- no obscene language, no hitting below the
belt.

I'd like people to be  a bit more careful with  the quoting functions
of their editors.  Please do NOT quote entire messages (including the
origin lines).   Quote only what is necessary.   Show a little bit of
kindness  for the sysops who have to pay to transports these messages
all over the world.

Commercial messages (anything that solicits money) are OFF TOPIC.  If
you're going to  make money on the deal, TAKE IT TO NETMAIL.  This is
not a "for sale" echo, nor is it an "investor's hotline" echo.

                     (Continued in next message)


--- msged 2.06
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Ä [10] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 104 of 185
 From : Nicolai Shapero                     1:102/524       .òp 16 .íâ 96 06:56
 To   : All
 Subj : Msg 2 of 3: Rules
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
                  Rules for SFFAN (Message 2 of 3)

No one  by the  name of  Arthur Werner,  Sal Devita, or  any variants
thereof is permitted  on this echo.  We do NOT need the Werner-beast,
in ANY of his incarnations, on this echo.  In keeping with the spirit
of this rule, Bob Charles  is also banned from this echo -- for life.
It is requested that no sysop  allow access to or  provide a feed for
SFFAN to this individual.

Hanah Deborah is also banned from this echo for an indefinite period,
as is Graeme Smith.

If message traffic is being gated into this conference from any other
network, then each  message must show in the origin line, the FidoNet
address of the system that is doing the gating so that netmail may be
properly directed to users posting from the other network. The gating
station MUST BE LISTED IN THE FIDONET NODELIST AS AN APPROVED GATEWAY
STATION!

The first time that anyone breaks one of these or other FidoNet rules
I will try and notify them via netmail. Depending upon the infraction,
I may also post a  message in the echo. Repeated infractions may result
in the offender being banned from the echo, either for a limited time or
forever.  I do not need variants on the Werner-beast on this echo!

Sysops are held fully accountable for the actions of all users on their
BBSs.  Failure by a sysop to properly discipline a user, or failure of
a sysop to suspend access of a user on request of the Moderator may
result in loss of access to this echo.  Sysops who violate the rules of
this conference, in spirit or letter, are subject to having their feeds
cut without further warning.  I am fully prepared to go "up the line" on
this one, folks, so DO NOT PUSH YOUR LUCK.  Any sysop who starts playing
"rules lawyer" (and I think you all understand what I'm talking about)
is subject to having his feed cut without further warning.  Feed cuts
will be FOR A MINIMUM OF SIX MONTHS, WITH A MANDATORY ONE YEAR
PROBATIONARY PERIOD FOLLOWING RESTORATION OF ACCESS.  Any violation of
the rules in spirit or letter during the probationary period makes the
offending sysop subject to permanent loss of feed.

                     (Continued in next message)



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Ä [10] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 105 of 185
 From : Nicolai Shapero                     1:102/524       .òp 16 .íâ 96 06:57
 To   : All
 Subj : Msg 3 of 3: Rules
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
                  Rules for SFFAN (Message 3 of 3)

In the event that I become unable to continue as moderator for SFFAN,
Kay Shapero will serve in  my stead unless  and until she  decides to
step down.  This is not a democracy.   No one gets to vote on who the
moderator will be.

High order ASCII characters (IBM graphics characters) are not allowed
in messages on this echo. They cause great grief for a lot of systems
and their use is to be avoided.

Special characters or  strings as in those  used for Postscript, TeX,
and similar page description languages are not to be used in SFFAN. I
would much prefer to see standard BBS practices followed (fake under-
score or all caps for emphasis).

These rules are  not to be taken as all inclusive.  The moderator re-
serves the right to add rules any time he deems it necessary to main-
tain the character of the echo.

For those readers  out there who think that SF fandom is just bit too
strange for words, just zip over to one of the OTHER conferences;  it
will only get weirder here.

The following people are on probation for rules violations or other
problems on the echo:

               Name                   End of Probation
            =============             =================
        Dan Gannon (1:105/292)        15 January   1996

The following individuals have received an "invitation to the world":
They are banned from this echo until the date listed after their
names.  These are "temporary" suspensions of SFFAN echomail priviledges,
but they are total (no read or write access permitted to SFFAN -- all
sysops carrying this echo are asked to comply)

               Name                   End of Suspension
            =============             =================
          Michael Weir (1:147/61)       5 May     1996
         John Giannini (1:119/50)      23 March   1996
         Chris Thurman (1:141/415)      1 May     1996

The following is a list of STATIONS that for which the feed of SFFAN
has been ordered cut.  Such cuts are for a minimum 6 month period,
and have additional probationary periods following restoration
of service:

               Name                End of Suspension
            =============          =================

-- Nicolai Shapero, the slightly bemused sysop of StormGate Aerie
                    Moderator of the SFFAN echo.


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Ä [10] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 106 of 185
 From : Kay Shapero                         1:102/524       .òp 16 .íâ 96 13:51
 To   : Todd Sullivan
 Subj : nuclear BS
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Jan 13 20:52>, Todd Sullivan (1:202/720.3) wrote to Kay Shapero:

 TS>Reactors use Uranium 238, which doesn't fission well; Weapons use
 TS>U-235 and Plutonium 240 and 241, all of which fission quite well.
 TS>The processing of each uses different methods, plus the fact that
 TS>reactors are built for steady and reliable output, not the
 TS>uncontrolled blast of a bomb.

 TS>The methods and motives behind each are mutually exclusive.

Comments prefixed with letters and > are quotes from other people, witness the
one of yours I just quoted.  Quotes appear in replies so as to let the person to
whom the reply is directed what the reply is about.  Yes, I know you don't get
nuclear explosions from power plants.  The guy I was writing *to* and who made
the statement you are evidently replying to seemed to think that a steam
explosion served as a counter example.  I was informing him that this was not
the case.


--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [10] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 107 of 185
 From : David Johnston                      1:342/14        .òp 16 .íâ 96 09:27
 To   : Nicolai Shapero
 Subj : Nuclear Bs
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
-> Corporations?  Hmm...seems to me that there's no such thing, really,
-> as a corporation.  There are people who have, for one reason or
-> another, banded together.  But if there are people working a site,
-> and Greenpeace "commando-types" should FOR WHATEVER REASON attack
-> that site, it will be people who will get hurt, not some anonymous,
-> faceless "corporation".

Greenpeace doesn't actually "attack", in the sense of injuring anyone or
engaging in violence.  They normally restrict their actions to things
such as sailing ships into nuke zones or between whalers and their prey,
and blocking gates of power plants.  That sort of thing.

--- PCBoard (R) v15.21/100
 * Origin: Freddy's Place - Edm. AB - 28.8K (403) 456-4241 (1:342/14)

Ä [10] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 108 of 185
 From : David Johnston                      1:342/14        .òp 16 .íâ 96 09:29
 To   : Philip Crookes
 Subj : Nuclear
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
-> > Barring a complete collapse of our civilization, I imagine > that
-> the purple trefoil will remain a good warning.  If it's
-> Turkish people, and some Asian societies, shake their heasds when
-> they mean 'yes'
-> It would not be hard to suppos ethat a purple trefoil could be
-> interpreted as meaning...
-> playground
-> sex parlour
-> lunch
-> safety
-> friends

Irrelevant.  Purple trefoils are a world-wide standard.

--- PCBoard (R) v15.21/100
 * Origin: Freddy's Place - Edm. AB - 28.8K (403) 456-4241 (1:342/14)

Ä [10] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 109 of 185
 From : David Johnston                      1:342/14        .pä 17 .íâ 96 00:27
 To   : Phill Ash
 Subj : Sliders Comic
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
-> DJ> "As of this writing, the Sliders TV show has been scheduled to
-> DJ> return as a mid season replacement on Fox, starting sometime in
-> early DJ> '96. Stay updated and in tune on Slider's continuity as the
-> (comic DJ> book) miniseries picks up where the TV show leaves off.
-> Don't get left DJ> out of the excitement and miss this landmark
-> miniseries..."
->       Good deal!  One more question, though.
->       (pulling out my Lt Columbo notebook)
->       Who did you say was publishing that comic? <G>

"Acclaim Comics".  The same guys doing those "Magic, the Card Game"
comics.

--- PCBoard (R) v15.21/100
 * Origin: Freddy's Place - Edm. AB - 28.8K (403) 456-4241 (1:342/14)

Ä [10] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 110 of 185
 From : David Johnston                      1:342/14        .pä 17 .íâ 96 00:28
 To   : Stephen Adams
 Subj : Nowhere Man
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
-> Not personally, but I'm sure that there are. I suppose if a person
-> doesn't believe in conspiracies, of any kind, at all, then viewing
-> Nowhere Man would be a waste of time.

Oh, I believe that conspiracies exist.  I just don't believe that they
can simultaneously be so omnipotent and incompetent at the same time.

--- PCBoard (R) v15.21/100
 * Origin: Freddy's Place - Edm. AB - 28.8K (403) 456-4241 (1:342/14)

Ä [10] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 111 of 185
 From : David Johnston                      1:342/14        .pä 17 .íâ 96 00:52
 To   : Michael Harper
 Subj : Tv And Sf
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
-> The audience isn't the problem. The execs and the sponsors are the
-> problem. The government is a major problem when it comes to
-> nonrenewables. Read _Fallen Angels_ by Larry Niven, Jerry Pournelle
-> and Michael Flynn. Then get back to me on nonrenewable resources.

I thought Fallen Angels was a silly book.

--- PCBoard (R) v15.21/100
 * Origin: Freddy's Place - Edm. AB - 28.8K (403) 456-4241 (1:342/14)

Ä [10] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 112 of 185
 From : David Johnston                      1:342/14        .pä 17 .íâ 96 00:56
 To   : Chip Griffin
 Subj : Re: Nuclear Bs
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
-> Greenpeace IS a TERRORIST organization, their methods prove it!

A terrorist organisation is one which kills noncombatants in an attempt
to throw fear into the general public and the political leadership.
When did Greenpeace do this?

--- PCBoard (R) v15.21/100
 * Origin: Freddy's Place - Edm. AB - 28.8K (403) 456-4241 (1:342/14)

Ä [10] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 113 of 185
 From : David Johnston                      1:342/14        .pä 17 .íâ 96 01:08
 To   : Christian Raven
 Subj : Re: Star Trek
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
-> I must have some problems with my terminal, I almost thought you said
-> "good" and "ST:Voyager" in the same sentence.  The captain is a
-> woman, trying to be a man.  Now if she were a lesbian (which... who
-> knows?) I might be able to take

That's really quite an idiotic statement.  Giving orders is not a
defining characteristic of masculinity.

--- PCBoard (R) v15.21/100
 * Origin: Freddy's Place - Edm. AB - 28.8K (403) 456-4241 (1:342/14)

Ä [10] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 114 of 185
 From : Gerry Normandeau                    1:163/430       .òp 16 .íâ 96 02:45
 To   : Glenn Shaheen
 Subj : Re: Star Trek Voyager
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On 01-11-96  09:47 Glenn Shaheen strung up Aaron Turon on the gallows pole
because of Star Trek Voyager!

 AT>I liked that episode where Nealix( that's probably spelled wrong, but I
 AT>don't know how to spell it) lungs get taken out. There are a lot of other
 AT>good ones, so if you know any and would like to discuss with me, just e-
 AT>mail! thanks :)

 GS> My favorite episode is when they find the planet freshely
 GS> destroyed (Time And Again?).

I am sory but I must say about the episode Time And Again is that it's the
standard ST script that gives me gas. The episode starts with finding the
planet destroyed and goes on to discouver that they are responsible for it.
Great fantastic, untill the end. This is a standard happy happy joy joy,
we saved another world and skip happily along into the sunset! B**** S///!
To me the ending is a moral copout! If the wrighters are not willing to
live with the consequences of there actions then don't wright it! The idea
that the crew was responsibul for the destruction of a world would be
a fantastic way to show that space is not a nice place and that is why
there is a Prime Directive. The crew of the ship has had it easy too long.
What the show needs is major shot of realisum.
                           Thus endith my tirade! Halliluya Amen!
(honestly, not all that much works me into a lather, So why does it have to be
Trek? };>




... "Brother," said Pooh as he sabotaged Wile E. Coyote's latest trap.
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

--- Maximus 2.01wb
 * Origin: Watership Down BBS, Kanata , ON (1:163/430)

Ä [10] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 115 of 185
 From : Jhereg                              1:271/285       .òp 16 .íâ 96 16:25
 To   : Todd Sullivan
 Subj : elfquest
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 J>  Like Barton, wasn't aware there was this much still out here in this
 J>  day and age. Is this all drawn and written by the Pini's or are they
 J>  done by other folks.

 TS> What was mentioned before is.  Last I heard, Marvel Comics was doing
 TS> an EQ comic, and the Pinis were keeping a close watch, or were being
 TS> consulted regularly.

 No good, then, Todd. If it ain't DONE by the Pini's, it ain't worth
 buying! <g>

 -=*< Jhereg >*=-


--- GEcho 1.00
 * Origin: From Trekkies & from B5ers who hate Trek save us! (1:271/285.0)

Ä [10] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 116 of 185
 From : Todd Sullivan                       1:202/720.3     .pä 17 .íâ 96 13:17
 To   : Ken Mayes
 Subj : Etc.
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
While substituting for Q, Ken Mayes took extreme delight in saying to Frank
Glover, "You'll do anything I say?"  Frank quailed when the words "nuclear BS"
were uttered.

 KM> On Mon 15-Jan-1996 12:00a, Frank Glover wrote:
 FG>>    It's fairer to say we're heavily dependent on *electricity.* Nukes
 FG>> are just one source of it, and not the biggest.

 KM>         Actually what I meant to say was that "We depend far too much
 KM> on nuclear reactors for the electricity we get." I never intended to
 KM> insinuate that we didn't rely on coal, oil and natural gas. We do and
 KM> far too much as well. We need to pour at least as much money into
 KM> exploring alternative sources as we do the older ones. If we did that,
 KM> our energy problems would be solved or at least not as large as they
 KM> are now.

Actually, most of the problems that exist today (pollution, energy shortages,
high prices, scarce resources) can be attributed to one thing: Too many people,
not enough of anything to go around.

There's a bad time coming, and nobody seems to care.  The ones that survive are
going to have an easier time after the "shake-out".

What has this to do with SF?  Ever read "Catastrophes", originally edited by
Asimov?  There were several stories along those lines written in the last 50
years or so.

Todd Sullivan

... Dinner Not Ready:  (A)bort (R)etry (F)etch tacos

-*- ASTG 1.9

--- Spot 1.3a Unregistered
 * Origin: Todd's Spot in the Continuum (1:202/720.3)

Ä [10] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 117 of 185
 From : Christopher O'Conor                 1:371/26        .pä 17 .íâ 96 16:59
 To   : MHS:Brandon Wolgast
 Subj : Foundation Again
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE 1.11+

BW>Should you read the one(s) before it even
BW>though they were written after or even though they take place before
BW>should you read them after? (kinda like the Star Wars movies, even
BW>though all six will be out one of these days you should still watch
BW>parts 4, 5, and 6 first.)

I've only read the trilogy, so I can't help.  But, for the record, Star
Wars has NINE parts, not six.  (Three trilogies - one before "A New
Hope", one after "Return of the Jedi")

Opus

--- Worldgroup/MajorBBS
 * Origin: AstroBBS <WorldGroup> Ft. Myers, FL 939-3009 (1:371/26)

Ä [10] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 118 of 185
 From : Todd Sullivan                       1:202/720.3     .pä 17 .íâ 96 17:12
 To   : Mark Jones
 Subj : nuclear safety
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
While substituting for Q, Mark Jones took extreme delight in saying to J.T.
Smith, "You'll do anything I say?"  J.T. quailed when the words "nuclear safety"
were uttered.

 MJ> On (10 Jan 96) J.T. Smith wrote to Chip Griffin...

 JS>> into the atmosphere from TMI. BTW, did I forget to mention that
 JS>> it's radioactive? Well guess what, it is! No thanks. I can think

 MJ> What about the water?  HOW radioactive is it?  And for how long?

Not for very long, less than an hour, if I recall my Reactor Principles lessons
correctly.  That's why it's used for a moderator in the reaction aboard subs.

 MJ> The everyday environment is measurably radioactive.

About 5 rem per year, last I heard.

 MJ> As for better sources of energy--name one.  One that is doable with
 MJ> today's technology, at commercially-acceptable prices, and which can
 MJ> generate the sort of immense power we need.

It's all do-able, but the price is what stymies everyone; energy isn't cheap any
more.

I once looked into building my own home solar array using off the shelf parts
(Radio Shack as the source).  The cost in parts ran about $2000 (in 1985), never
mind the labor in assembly of about 200 cells and the enclosures needed to
protect them, building the power supplies and regulators, getting the the proper
inverter for what had to have AC.

Too much for one person to do, and that was just for 200 amp capacity for one
house!

Todd Sullivan

... "Every puny whipster gets my sword." --Shakespeare

-*- ASTG 1.9

--- Spot 1.3a Unregistered
 * Origin: Todd's Spot in the Continuum (1:202/720.3)

Ä [10] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 119 of 185
 From : Bianca Wesslak                      1:132/152       .pä 17 .íâ 96 00:58
 To   : Judy Hayes
 Subj : "Who" knew.
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
From a woman with an overactive imagination.

 JH> Just a note picked up from Jay Badenhoop's "Mr. Data's Data" -
 JH> "Actor Paul McGann (Alien 3, The Three Musketeers) has just been
 JH> signed to play the title role in the new "Doctor Who" movie.

 yeah I heard about the new doctor who movie, this is where they are
 gonna introduce the third doctor.  THe bbc and fox and a couple of other
 people are putting it together.   Do you know when it will be out perhaps?




... Eternity only goes in two directions.
--- Blue Wave v2.12 [NR]
 * Origin: The Cereal Port BBS (OS/2) Rindge,NH 603-899-3335 (1:132/152)

Ä [10] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 120 of 185
 From : Ecarey                              1:101/230       .cê 14 .íâ 96 14:50
 To   : Bianca Wesslak
 Subj : NUCLEAR
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
BW>From a woman with an overactive imagination.
BW> -=>what is dresden fill me in.
BW> PL> It's a shame History classes leave out so much these days...
BW> TR> It shows us, however, that this person is less than 20 years old.

BW>Actually I am 21, and I did pretty well in my history classes, Dresden
BW>was never mentioned in either current events, world history, am. history1,2
BW>but thanks for filling me in.

Then you went to a wretchedly inferior school, and your teachers ought
to be ashamed to show their faces in pubic. For that matter, your
parents should, too.

 * OLX 2.1 TD * --T-A+G-L-I+N-E--+M-E-A+S-U-R+I-N-G+--G-A+U-G-E--

--- FLAME v1.0
 * Origin: Withouta Net - Drop In Anytime! - 617/846-5416 (1:101/230)

Ä [10] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 121 of 185
 From : Chris Thurman                       1:141/415       .òp 16 .íâ 96 15:24
 To   : Brad Morgan
 Subj : Science Fiction
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
If you want the area code for Mike and are willing to pay long distance then
call 203-386-0660.

--- Maximus 3.01
 * Origin: The Wacko Board (1:141/415)

Ä [10] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 122 of 185
 From : Star Hawk                           1:362/708.6     .îí 15 .íâ 96 17:49
 To   : Jeff Hancock
 Subj : B5 -- Coincidence?
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
From my perch I saw this come out of the gravity well from Jeff Hancock:

  [> Star Hawk [> I'm at a loss to find any real connection between WoH
  [> and B5... and i've seen WoH [although not recently].  Without more
  [> to go on, i'd go with the overactive imagination.

  [> Jeff Hancock [> That's probably all there is, although associations
  [> can spring in the most unlikely cases from the oddest similarities.
  [>
  [> For example, the last new episode of B5 had the "Black Rose killer".
  [> I didn't think anything special of it; until after that I saw some
  [> episodes of Ranma 1/2 with a character self-nicknamed "The Black
  [> Rose". But aside from that, no real similarity. ('course, for all I
  [> know, a black rose is a old story element, not that I'd ever run
  [> into it before)

     I don't know about story element, but it's not unlikely.  Roses have been a
romantic symbol, the color black a symbol of dark and/or evil intent; so
naturally when the two are put together you have a ready made of dark/evil
romance.  Both B5 and Ranma 1/2 tapped into that background for different
reasons.

  [> Jeff Hancock [> Another anime I ran into had living starships... but
  [> again, not even similiar in detail.

     Again, no surprise...  Living ships have been part of SF/Fantasy for a long
time, although not common.  [The anime wouldn't have been Tenchi Muyo, would it?
<g>]

                                        Star Hawk, the EchoTrickster

--- MacWoof Eval:23Dec93
 * Origin: William Bull Hedrick @ Hawk Haven's Orbital Point (1:362/708.6)

Ä [10] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 123 of 185
 From : Star Hawk                           1:362/708.6     .òp 16 .íâ 96 23:21
 To   : Todd Sullivan
 Subj : elfquest
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
From my perch I saw this come out of the gravity well from Todd Sullivan:

  [> Todd Sullivan [> What was mentioned before is.  Last I heard, Marvel
  [> Comics was doing an EQ comic, and the Pinis were keeping a close
  [> watch, or were being consulted regularly.

     Marvel _used_ to publish a reprint a version of EQ; currently the EQ titles
are published by WaRP Graphics.

                                        Star Hawk, the EchoTrickster

--- MacWoof Eval:23Dec93
 * Origin: William Bull Hedrick @ Hawk Haven's Orbital Point (1:362/708.6)

Ä [10] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 124 of 185
 From : Frank Glover                        1:2613/477      .pä 17 .íâ 96 20:33
 To   : Michael Harper
 Subj : Re: tv and sf
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

MH>   Do you know who the most literate people in the world are? Oil
MH>  riggers.
MH>   Especially the ones on platforms and on towboats. They read
MH>  everything,
MH>   and read it again, and then read it to each other. I know of one guy
MH>   who learned highly advanced mathematics, tensor calculus and that
MH>  sort
MH>   of thing, while working an oil rig. It was the only thing he could
MH>  find
MH>   that no one would walk off with before he was done with it.

   Interesting. I predict similar things when long space voyages, and long tours
of duty on a space station become posible. (Well, maybe the latter already does
if you count the Mir and Salyut stations. But they're too small to `walk' very
far with someone's books....)

   Frank


--- QuickBBS 2.80 GoldBase (Zeta-1)
 * Origin: The Matrix Data Bank BBS, Rochester, Ny (1:2613/477)

Ä [10] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 125 of 185
 From : Frank Glover                        1:2613/477      .pä 17 .íâ 96 20:41
 To   : Chip Griffin
 Subj : Re: nuclear
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

CG>  Not if you're going to get enough power to be useful.  Broadcast
CG>  transmitters
CG>  emit a lot of power, but not enough is received to be usable.  There

   They're not designed with transfer of signifigant power in mind. An SPS
inorbit would be beaming at a rectenna array a mile or so in diameter.
*Broad*casting is just that.

CG>  emit a lot of power, but not enough is received to be usable.  There
CG>  would be
CG>  a high loss to the atmosphere to I think ...

   Not at all frequencies. You select one with minimum attenuation. As a ham
operator (KA2WQA) I've heard amateur radio satellites in orbit running only a
few watts....

   Frank


--- QuickBBS 2.80 GoldBase (Zeta-1)
 * Origin: The Matrix Data Bank BBS, Rochester, Ny (1:2613/477)

Ä [10] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 126 of 185
 From : Frank Glover                        1:2613/477      .pä 17 .íâ 96 20:48
 To   : Chip Griffin
 Subj : Re: NUCLEAR paradox?
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

CG>  True, but can we safely sustain it?  There is no metal known to man
CG>  which can
CG>  contain the temperatures achieved (necessary) during/for fusion.

   Which is why magnetic fields are used to contain, heat and compress the
fusion fuel plasma. (Or inertial confinement, in the case of lasers or particle
beams to ignite tiny fuel pellets.) To work, the plasma must have a temprature,
density and confinement time whose product exceeds a minimum value. (The Lawson
Criterion) We can easily get high temps, at the expense of the other two. But
we're getting there.

   Those interested in exotic fusion posibilites, with access to back issues of
Analog science fiction/science fact (in an attempt to get back on topic) may
want to look for the non-fiction article `The Farther Shores of Fusion' by
Thomas Donaldson in the March 1988 issue.

   Frank


--- QuickBBS 2.80 GoldBase (Zeta-1)
 * Origin: The Matrix Data Bank BBS, Rochester, Ny (1:2613/477)

Ä [10] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 127 of 185
 From : Frank Glover                        1:2613/477      .pä 17 .íâ 96 20:59
 To   : Bianca Wesslak
 Subj : Re: nuclear
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

BW>  Besides it's the only plan that I can think of.  The fall of
BW>  electricity
BW>  has on upside, a lot of the bombs that the military controls, won't
BW>  be
BW>  able to be set off.

   Being military systems, they don't depend on the commercial power grid,
either. Just as well. It would make the National Guard useless in
power-disrupting disasters, otherwise.

   Frank


--- QuickBBS 2.80 GoldBase (Zeta-1)
 * Origin: The Matrix Data Bank BBS, Rochester, Ny (1:2613/477)

Ä [10] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 128 of 185
 From : Frank Glover                        1:2613/477      .pä 17 .íâ 96 21:04
 To   : Shawn Merrow
 Subj : Re: Star Trek Comics
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

SM>  DC and Marvel are merging in the end of Feburary. I've heard this

   There's a major crossover series coming, but actually merging? Not to my
knowledge.

   Frank


--- QuickBBS 2.80 GoldBase (Zeta-1)
 * Origin: The Matrix Data Bank BBS, Rochester, Ny (1:2613/477)

Ä [10] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 129 of 185
 From : Mark Jones                          1:105/302.47    .òp 16 .íâ 96 21:05
 To   : STEPHEN ADAMS
 Subj : NOWHERE MAN
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On (15 Jan 96) STEPHEN ADAMS wrote to MARK JONES...

 SA> My take on this show is that it is to present to the audience
 SA> what it is that *Tom* is feeling, seeing, and/or experiencing.
 SA> How many times in your own lives have behavior changes in other
 SA> people left us wondering what was going on? (When I say other
 SA> people, I'm talking about loved ones and friends that we care
 SA> deeply for and implicitly trust.) And of those times, in how many
 SA> of them did we get a sufficient explanation as to why they did
 SA> what they did? Not everything in life gets explained with some
 SA> "heavy-duty" justification, and it appears that Nowhere Man's
 SA> production staff is just following this concept.

The problem is that real life is different from fiction.  In real
life, when strange things happen, you simply accept them.  There they
are.  They don't *need* justification--they HAPPENED.  But one of the
first things a beginning writer learns (or should learn) is that "but
this really happened to me/a friend!" is no defense.

The more bizarre an event is, the *more* justification it requires
before a reader will accept it.  Because they failed (or more likely,
didn't even try) to justify the set-up, I lost interest in Nowhere Man
somewhere about halfway through the first episode.  If the show is
simply an excuse to vicariously experience raging paranoia, I'll pass.
 I can get all the paranoia I want by cruising the net.  I want a
little more than that from a mystery program.

But to each his own.  Other people seem to really like this one.

 SA> For me, it is this overall *lack* of justification that brings me
 SA> to watch the next episode! I, too, have become part of Tom's
 SA> search for answers! :)

And it was the lack of justification that turned me off (and all my
friends, too).  I suspect that there *aren't* any answers--and while
that may strike some viewers as a cool philosophical position to take,
I don't care for it.

 MJ> If she was a ringer all along, why didn't they just have her
 MJ> *steal* the negatives, or at least find out where he kept them
 MJ> (so experts could blow the safe, for instance).
 SA>
 SA> Well, if they did *that*, then there would be no more story.  :)

No, it would have required some serious work on the writers' parts,
but they could have still had a story.  But they would have had to
*explain* why that wouldn't work...instead of simply ignoring that
option.  [Maybe he wouldn't *tell* her where the negatives were.
Which, she being his wife, would be an interesting insight in Tom Veil
*before* the conspiracy was revealed, don't you think?  Perhaps he was
paranoid all along....]

 SA> Regarding the negatives. Throughout this series, everyone has
 SA> tried to get Tom's negatives, but he has managed to hide them in
 SA> some pretty unique places. Besides, he's got the negatives
 SA> scattered all throughout the country!

How many times has he been in the hands of the conspiracy?  At least
once, in the pilot.  Any halfway competent conspiracy could have
gotten the information from HIM in half a dozen different ways.


--- PPoint 1.78
 * Origin: Folcroft Sanitarium (hsmith@cure.com) (1:105/302.47)

Ä [10] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 130 of 185
 From : Mark Jones                          1:105/302.47    .òp 16 .íâ 96 21:15
 To   : STEPHEN ADAMS
 Subj : NOWHERE MAN
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On (15 Jan 96) STEPHEN ADAMS wrote to DAVID JOHNSTON...

 DJ> Do you know anyone who just balks at the utter implausibility of
 DJ> what is going on?
 SA>
 SA> Not personally, but I'm sure that there are. I suppose if a
 SA> person doesn't believe in conspiracies, of any kind, at all, then
 SA> viewing Nowhere Man would be a waste of time.

Me.  Me!  ME!  (Waving hand frantically to attract attention....)

That describes me perfectly.  I balk at the utter implausibility of a
conspiracy which is at the same time so all-encompassing that it can
make Tom Veil's entire life vanish in the time it takes him to visit
the bathroom in a restaurant AND which cannot pry relatively simple
information out of a man they've successfully confined to a mental
hospital (using drugs, torture, threats against loved ones, or simple
sleep deprivation).


--- PPoint 1.78
 * Origin: Folcroft Sanitarium (hsmith@cure.com) (1:105/302.47)

Ä [10] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 131 of 185
 From : Mark Jones                          1:105/302.47    .òp 16 .íâ 96 21:18
 To   : David Johnston
 Subj : Nuclear
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On (15 Jan 96) David Johnston wrote to Mark Jones...

 DJ> -> The problem with your plan--learning to hunt and hang out on a
 DJ> -> reservation--is that about 200,000,000 other people will be
 DJ> -> having much the same idea. And the land can't possibly support
 DJ> -> even a tiny fraction of that many. Remember--the native
 DJ> -> american population was
 DJ>
 DJ> Of course it can't. But I'm losing track of your point. If
 DJ> electricity magically stops working, many people would die, (but
 DJ> on the bright side there will be a lot more agricultural jobs).
 DJ> What does is the supposed significance of this?

  I was responding to a statement that, if electricity vanished, she
would go live on a reservation and hunt for her food.
  I was pointing out that she wouldn't be the only one with that idea,
and that there are vastly more people living on this continent than
the land can support without an extensive farming and transportation
infrastructure.  250,000,000 people trying to live off the land on a
continent which has nowhere near as much wilderness (and corresponding
amounts of game) as it did a few centuries ago (when probably less
than ONE million indians roamed it) is a recipe for mass starvation.

--- PPoint 1.78
 * Origin: Folcroft Sanitarium (hsmith@cure.com) (1:105/302.47)

Ä [10] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 132 of 185
 From : Mark Jones                          1:105/302.47    .òp 16 .íâ 96 21:23
 To   : Ken Mayes
 Subj : nuclear BS
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On (15 Jan 96) Ken Mayes wrote to Barton Paul Levenson...

 KM> remember reading somewhere...I can't remember where darnit, so take it
 KM> with a grain of salt, but I read somewhere that not one single nuclear
 KM> power station had yet broken even financially, despite the fact that
 KM> many have been in operation for thirty years or more and are nearing
 KM> the end of their operational lives.

   The expenses are primarily the result of endless litigation and
endless wrangles with bureaucrats and red tape.  The hardware and
operating costs for the *plants* are probably a pretty small part of
the costs involved.

 KM>         The fact that the nuclear industry still pushes for more and
 KM> more reactors despite losses in the billions tells me that there is
 KM> someone somewhere making a killing figuratively if not literally.

   Really?  As I understand it, there hasn't been a single new reactor
ordered or licensed in something like twenty years.  I suspect the
industry has been fighting to get existing plants online, to try to
recoup some of the costs of building them.  I could be wrong, though.


--- PPoint 1.78
 * Origin: Folcroft Sanitarium (hsmith@cure.com) (1:105/302.47)

Ä [10] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 133 of 185
 From : Nicolai Shapero                     1:102/524       .pä 17 .íâ 96 19:59
 To   : Chip Griffin
 Subj : Re: nuclear
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Jan 14 14:05>, Chip Griffin (1:320/301) wrote to Nicolai Shapero:

 CG>Not if you're going to get enough power to be useful.  Broadcast
 CG>transmitters
 CG>emit a lot of power, but not enough is received to be usable.
 CG>There would be
 CG>a high loss to the atmosphere to I think ...

The studies done at JPL showed otherwise.  More than enough power gets through
to be useful.  Oh, and by the by, there's a fair amount of loss in power
transmission through conventional power grids too...

-- Nicolai Shapero, the Mad Russian Sysop of StormGate Aerie


--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [10] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 134 of 185
 From : Nicolai Shapero                     1:102/524       .pä 17 .íâ 96 20:00
 To   : Chip Griffin
 Subj : Re: NUCLEAR paradox?
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Jan 14 14:06>, Chip Griffin (1:320/301) wrote to Nicolai Shapero:

 CG>True, but can we safely sustain it?  There is no metal known to
 CG>man which can
 CG>contain the temperatures achieved (necessary) during/for fusion.

Magnetic containment of the plasma.  (By the by, just because we have no metals
that will tolerate a given temperature range does not mean that we can't build
something that will run at that temperature, witness Aurora.  At 4000+ knots,
you better believe that the skin on that baby would be hot enough to melt most
metals...so what are they made of?  Those that know, can't tell...those that
tell, don't know...)

-- Nicolai Shapero, the Mad Russian Sysop of StormGate Aerie


--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [10] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 135 of 185
 From : Nicolai Shapero                     1:102/524       .pä 17 .íâ 96 20:03
 To   : Chip Griffin
 Subj : Re: nuclear BS
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Jan 14 14:08>, Chip Griffin (1:320/301) wrote to Nicolai Shapero:

 CG>radio, any two way radio, gamma radiation are all the same thing
 CG>... the only
 CG>differences are the frequency of the wave and the energy level
 CG>(amplitude) ...

I am well aware of the fact that they're all electromagnetic radiation.  My
point was, however, that we did not use gamma radiation in conventional
microwave ovens.  (If we could produce gamma at will by the flip of a switch
there are a LOT of toys that we could build a heck of a lot easier than the way
we build 'em now...)

-- Nicolai Shapero, the Mad Russian Sysop of StormGate Aerie

--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [10] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 136 of 185
 From : Nicolai Shapero                     1:102/524       .pä 17 .íâ 96 20:06
 To   : Bianca Wesslak
 Subj : nuclear
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Jan 14 01:18>, Bianca Wesslak (1:132/152) wrote to Mark Jones:

 BW>to my instincs and my intuition.  Should electricity just go away
 BW>those
 BW>people on a reservation have more of a chance to survive than we
 BW>do,
 BW>living in the suburbs.  They have faced a lot of harsh
 BW>conditions.

Bullpuckey.  No tech means most everyone dies.  Period.  The country cannot
support 250+ million people without high tech.  Throw away the high tech, and
some 240+ million people will HAVE to die.  And in the crash that would follow,
bloody near everyone else would likeley die as well.

 BW>Besides it's the only plan that I can think of.  The fall of
 BW>electricity
 BW>has on upside, a lot of the bombs that the military controls,
 BW>won't be
 BW>able to be set off.

Right.  So instead of being vaporized (which is at least quick and relatively
painless) we'd all get to starve to death.  Joy of joys unbounded.  Feh!

-- Nicolai Shapero, the Mad Russian Sysop of StormGate Aerie

--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [10] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 137 of 185
 From : Channon Lang                        1:130/809       .åò 18 .íâ 96 01:43
 To   : Michael Harper
 Subj : Re: Star Trek
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE 1.11+
From a dark bottomless pit,Michael Harper screamed up to Channon Lang about Star
Trek..

 CL> Isn't it interesting that 30 years ago Star Trek was on the edge about
 CL> everything, and now it's considered safe? Times they are a changin',
 CL> eh?

 MH> Most definitely, dear. For its time, Trek was one of the most daring
 MH> shows ever done. It still has its moments...

 What do you think about the individual Star Treks? I wasn't sure about
 DS9, but they seem to have finally started writing interesting ones. I
 like the way the story is going right at the moment. Voyager, however, I
 think is floudering right at the moment in the writing department.

 MH> The studio is responsible for the lag between the pilot and the first
 MH> episode. Execs. Shoot 'em all and shove 'em out the damn airlock. Let
 MH> the people who actually know what they're doing run the studios for a
 MH> change...

 Hollywood without Execs.? Hmmmm....You mean things might actually get done?
 Perish the thought!

Channon
... The only substitute for good manners is *faster* reflexes!
--- MachoEcho 0.5ñ
 * Origin: The State of Confusion * Arlington Tx * 817-274-1920 * (1:130/809)

Ä [10] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 138 of 185
 From : Channon Lang                        1:130/809       .åò 18 .íâ 96 01:43
 To   : Jon Helis
 Subj : The Guide and it's Incarnations...
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE 1.11+
From a dark bottomless pit,Jon Helis screamed up to Channon Lang about B5 --
Coincidence?..

 CL> Did you ever see the TV shows of "Hitchhiker's Guide"? What a
 CL> classic!
 CL> Channon

 JH> I've seen it several times, and you're right, it is a classic.

 JH> Have you ever heard the radio version of it?  That's a real
 JH> classic too!

 YES!!! A friend of mine has it on CD. He bought it while he was in GB.
 All we did for days was giggle and snicker. I just love Deep Thought.
 And the Guide itself has some goodies too.

 Channon
... My other shield has a target painted on it.  Don't use it much.
--- MachoEcho 0.5ñ
 * Origin: The State of Confusion * Arlington Tx * 817-274-1920 * (1:130/809)

Ä [10] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 139 of 185
 From : Channon Lang                        1:130/809       .åò 18 .íâ 96 02:28
 To   : Tony Trujillo
 Subj : Re: Tom Holt & PTerry
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE 1.11+
From a dark bottomless pit,Tony Trujillo screamed up to Myra I Fox about Tom
Holt & PTerry..

 MI> I am reading "Who's Afraid of Beowulf?" now. I couldn't
 MI> find it in the ubs and I have it on loan from a friend.

 TT> I wish I could find my copy. It's around here somewhere but
 TT> I can't seem to locate it.

 Now that was one book I really enjoyed....If I remember correctly, I did
 alot of giggling...

 Channon


... C:\DAMSEL.EXE crosslinked with DISTRESS.COM...RESCUE?
--- MachoEcho 0.5ñ
 * Origin: The State of Confusion * Arlington Tx * 817-274-1920 * (1:130/809)

Ä [10] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 140 of 185
 From : Christian Raven                     1:393/7         .pä 17 .íâ 96 23:43
 To   : Frank Glover
 Subj : Re: VIRTUAL SEX
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

FG>    In virtual reality, one should practice safe hex, eh?
FG>
FG>    You know, this could be somewhat less virtual if it involved a full
FG> sensor contact suit as seen in The Lawnmower Man. The couple there were
FG> simply a few feet apart, tied into the same system, but with a
FG> sufficently wide bandwith connection, they could be thousands of miles
FG> apart (up to the limit of noticeable speed of light delays). This would
FG> be in a gray area between virtual reality and telepresence.
FG>
FG>    And it could give a whole new meaning to the concept of `computer
FG> dating'....
FG>
FG>    Frank
FG>

  you just brought up an interesting point... proving that mankind doesnt
actually have to reach the speed of light themselves to utilize it in a physical
fashion...  once a full sensory VR suit is developed (obviously different for
men and women, if it is a FULL sensory suit), day to day TR (true reality)
contact will become unnecessary.. anyone who has a weight problem, is ugly, ect,
can become anything they have ever dreamed of.. the marketing potential of such
a system would be unimaginable.. so you can bet bill gates is imagining it right
this second..
                                                   ..c.raven..
--- CNet/3
 * Origin: The Bard's Tavern Denton, TX (817)243-5110 USR 28.8   (1:393/7)

Ä [10] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 141 of 185
 From : Jackson Raster                      1:3637/77       .pä 17 .íâ 96 19:13
 To   : Chris Ogniben
 Subj : SLIDERS/ANY NEWS?
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Wow...you're just anti-ANYthing, aren't you, Chris?
-JTR
---
--- WcToss for WildCat!  V1.8 [UnReg]
 * Origin: Coles Kingdom BBS 615-657-5708 14.4KBPS! (1:3637/77)

Ä [10] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 142 of 185
 From : Channon Lang                        1:130/809       .åò 18 .íâ 96 14:10
 To   : David Johnston
 Subj : Re: Star Trek
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE 1.11+
From a dark bottomless pit,David Johnston screamed up to Christian Raven about
Star Trek..

 -> I must have some problems with my terminal, I almost thought you said
 -> "good" and "ST:Voyager" in the same sentence.  The captain is a
 -> woman, trying to be a man.  Now if she were a lesbian (which... who
 -> knows?) I might be able to take

 DJ> That's really quite an idiotic statement.  Giving orders is not a
 DJ> defining characteristic of masculinity.

 Thank you for responding like that....I just can't stand it when a male
 type automatically assumes that when a woman is strong she just trying
 to be a man.....What woman would really WANT to be a man? NO THANKS!
 And I'm pretty sure Captain Janeway would feel the same way.

 Besides if she's a lesbian....that might come as a real surprise to her
 BOYFRIEND she left back on Earth, right?

 Channon



... "Coffee, tea, monster... coffee, tea, monster..." - Dot Warner
--- MachoEcho 0.5ñ
 * Origin: The State of Confusion * Arlington Tx * 817-274-1920 * (1:130/809)

Ä [10] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 143 of 185
 From : Timo Bange                          2:2457/110.13   .pä 17 .íâ 96 21:49
 To   : Alle
 Subj : Star Trek
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Hi,

is anyone interested in writing me a mail and talk about Star Trek and
other Science-Fiction Films. What are your favorite episodes? (Star Trek
the Next Generation)

CU
Timo

--
** backwoods +49-2751-2938 **

--- CrossPoint v3.02
 * Origin: backwoods +49-2751-2938 (2:2457/110.13)

Ä [10] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 144 of 185
 From : James Walton                        1:129/260       .pä 17 .íâ 96 23:50
 To   : Jon Helis
 Subj : Re: Star Trek and others
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 JH> There is an English translation of "R.U.R." available?  I've
 JH> been wanting to read this for a very long time.  Where were you
 JH> able to find such a gem?

Look in the Classics section of your library or book store.  I have had 2
copies of this book, in English, for many years.





--- Via Silver Xpress V4.00 SW12427
 * Origin: ConFluence '96:  Return to Mars! (1:129/260)

Ä [10] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 145 of 185
 From : Otto Cordray                        1:106/1393      .åò 18 .íâ 96 17:40
 To   : Channon Lang
 Subj : The Guide and it's Incarnations...
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
The Hitchhiker's CD you spoke of...

Is it actually the radio shows or is it the LP version?

Otto

--- Maximus/2 3.01
 * Origin: The Round Table, BBS of Gulf Coast Mensa * 922-1393 (1:106/1393)

Ä [10] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 146 of 185
 From : Robert Siemborski                   1:2604/214      .pä 17 .íâ 96 20:29
 To   : Channon Lang
 Subj : Re: Star Trek
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 > RS> If you liked that one, be on the lookout for what jms called the
 > RS> "funniest scene to date on the series" in the first of the new block
 > RS> of episodes. Something that Ivonova says in Sheriden's bedroom is
 > RS> supposed to be really funny.  Take that for what you will.
 >
 > Hmmm, now THAT could be interesting....

I think that was the point.

- Rob -

--- SLMAIL v4.5a  (#1409)
 * Origin: Bits 'N Bytes BBS - Leonia, NJ - (201) 346-1661 - 28.8k Connections!
(1:2604/214)

Ä [10] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 147 of 185
 From : Darren Lovatt                       2:201/190       .åò 18 .íâ 96 06:40
 To   : Jerry Van Kooten
 Subj : Red Dwarf / TNG crossover
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

JK >  DL> REDTREK.ZIP     29K     Red Dwarf meets the next generation
JK >  DL> SMEG_GEN.ARJ    25K     Dwarf Trek - The Smeggy Generation

JK >  Is it possible to attach files this size to a netmail?
JK >  Where is your BBS,
JK >  Denmark? A bit expensive for me (from Holland).

No Sweden ! Give me the address to attach to and I'll put them on hold for you !

/Darren



--- GEcho 1.00
 * Origin: (2:201/190)

Ä [10] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 148 of 185
 From : David Johnston                      1:342/14        .åò 18 .íâ 96 00:07
 To   : Phill Ash
 Subj : Nuclear
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
-> DJ> Cancer isn't a mutation.  It's a replication error.
->       Isn't that sort of like saying "it's not a car, it's a Buick" ?

A "mutation" is a genetic change which is passed down to one's
offspring.  While in a sense cancer is a mutation on the cellular level,
it is not a mutation of the human organism as a whole.

--- PCBoard (R) v15.21/100
 * Origin: Freddy's Place - Edm. AB - 28.8K (403) 456-4241 (1:342/14)

Ä [10] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 149 of 185
 From : David Johnston                      1:342/14        .åò 18 .íâ 96 01:09
 To   : Shawn Merrow
 Subj : Star Trek Comics
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
-> DC and Marvel are merging in the end of Feburary. I've heard this
-> will play havoc with their regular title and a lot will be cancealed.
-> Does any one know if this will effect DC Star Trek line. Any
-> information will be appricated.

DC and Marvel are merging for only one week.  No comics will be canceled
as a result.  It's just a stunt.

--- PCBoard (R) v15.21/100
 * Origin: Freddy's Place - Edm. AB - 28.8K (403) 456-4241 (1:342/14)

Ä [10] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 150 of 185
 From : David Johnston                      1:342/14        .åò 18 .íâ 96 01:10
 To   : Mark Jones
 Subj : Virtual Sex
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
-> Maybe so.  Note that I am *not* referring to bondage games or S&M
-> of the sort a lot of people enjoy.  That's not my cup of tea, but as
-> long as everyone involved is there by choice, its fine with me.  I
-> was writing specifically about *true* sadism.

By definition, if the victim (or the perpetrator) is imaginary, we
aren't talking about *true* sadism.

--- PCBoard (R) v15.21/100
 * Origin: Freddy's Place - Edm. AB - 28.8K (403) 456-4241 (1:342/14)

Ä [10] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 151 of 185
 From : Frank Swarbrick                     1:104/825       .òp 16 .íâ 96 20:39
 To   : Eric Reinholt
 Subj : Prisoner movie
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12  92-0022
On 01-14-96  17:20 my Very Good Friend Eric Reinholt said:

 ER> On 01-11-96 FRANK SWARBRICK wrote to ALL...

 ER> STOP!  (Which was also the name of a proposed movie which
 ER> McGoohan was hoping to produce around the time of the end of
 ER> "The Prisoner.")

 FS> Dunno if anyone's posted this yet...  I read an article in the paper
 FS> today that said that Patrick MacGoohan has signed on to write and
 FS> produce a motion picture based on his old tv series The Prisoner.  He
 FS> won't play the main character, but he may play another role.

 ER> I'm afraid that no matter how this pans out, McGoohan will
 ER> always remain both Johnny Drake and Number Six to me!

 FS> Personally, I'm not sure how well the show would translate to the
 FS> modern silver screen, but with MacGoohan (is that right?) being
 FS> responsible for it there's certainly hope.  We shall see...

 ER> Modern screen?  With the success of tribute/spin offs like
 ER> "Nowhere Man" and "Babylon 5"?  It seems that there's more of
 ER> "us" out there than I would have thought.  I hope it does
 ER> justice to the original.  The Prisoner most definitely
 ER> influenced how I thought about such concepts as "The
 ER> Individual" and "Self-Identity."

I'm just thinking it's a little too subtle for today's movie
audiences.  They want slam bam action, not something you have to think
about.  Which is not to say that no one would go (I would, you would),
but I just can't see it being very sucessful.  Still, you never know.

        Frank

p.s.  Do you watch Nowhere Man, btw?  It's rather obscure, even for
me, but it has it's moments.

... "So lock on to my signal, and BEAM ON DOWN!"
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12
 * Origin: The Bailey Information Exchange BBS, 28.8k v.fc  (1:104/825.0)

Ä [10] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 152 of 185
 From : Phill Ash                           1:275/160       .åò 18 .íâ 96 07:38
 To   : Ron Taylor
 Subj : star wars holiday special
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE 1.11+

 RT> Does anybody out there have a tape of THE STAR WARS HOLIDAY
 RT> SPECIAL???????????
 RT> I really want to see it cause it has the first apperance of
 RT> everyones favorite interplanetary assain !!!!!!!!!BOBA FETT
 RT> PLEASE respond if you can help.  thanx

        email or netmail me for the address of a friend who has it...


Your pal:  PhlAsh
---
 þ Ùystertags v1.1 þ And this is what my friends all mean by Del Rio's song
~~~ ReneWave v1.01 [NR]
--- Smile :)
 * Origin: * The Beast's Lair * (804)498-3070 * Va Beach VA * (1:275/160)

Ä [10] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 153 of 185
 From : Glenn Shaheen                       1:3600/7        .pä 17 .íâ 96 14:26
 To   : Christian Raven
 Subj : Re: Star Trek
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 >  I must have some problems with my terminal, I almost thought you said
 >"good" and "ST:Voyager" in the same sentence.

       At least every episode isn't a comedy like some ST series...
       Ok, maybe there are some problems (the black Vulcan, since for what
I've seen Vulcan is all the same climate) but there have been more good
episodes than bad.


--- SLMAIL v3.5C  (#1540)
 * Origin: Robotech þ Lake City's Music*Demo BBS þ [904] 758*9477 (1:3600/7)

Ä [10] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 154 of 185
 From : Chris Ogniben                       1:2604/568      .pä 17 .íâ 96 11:45
 To   : Channon Lang
 Subj : Re: X-files
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

   Yeah i seen that x file episode with the killer roaches.  It was a
good episode.  But, if your a person that can't live with bugs.  Then
it would be better off not to watch it.  Of course those people that
are afraid of bugs, are pussies.  But, since bugs can't really hurt
you, other than the ones that bite you and carry diseases, that bugs
are not that bad.  Of course if i see on around my room, i would
probably kill it.  But, back to talking about the x file episode.  I
have to admit, i thought at first that Mulder was crazzy to think that
the aliens were sending these small robotic bugs to the planet earth as
a robot to observe what goes on, on the earth.  But, does anyone know
if that was really true, or that Mulder was wrong about that.  Unless
there was a totally new reason that these bugs were killing people.  I
just like to discuss this further with anyone that replies to this.


--- WM v3.11/93-0947
 * Origin: Waterside BBS - NJ - (201) 641-5375 28.8k  (1:2604/568)

Ä [10] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 155 of 185
 From : Chris Ogniben                       1:2604/568      .pä 17 .íâ 96 11:47
 To   : David Johnston
 Subj : Nuclear
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

  Hey i never knew that i would meet someone else on here, that would
share the same opinion.  Yes the human race, apparently seems to be
getting stupider, and weaker.  I think the human race is always week,
since we have to have skin and bones, than whatever else that can make
a human feel as if he was strong.  I think against any alien lifeform
that has a different type of body, would show that if they wanted to
take us, it would be easy for them, since we are a weak racfe.


--- WM v3.11/93-0947
 * Origin: Waterside BBS - NJ - (201) 641-5375 28.8k  (1:2604/568)

Ä [10] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 156 of 185
 From : Christian Raven                     1:393/7         .åò 18 .íâ 96 22:55
 To   : David Johnston
 Subj : Re: Star Trek
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

DJ> -> I must have some problems with my terminal, I almost thought you said
DJ> -> "good" and "ST:Voyager" in the same sentence.  The captain is a
DJ> -> woman, trying to be a man.  Now if she were a lesbian (which... who
DJ> -> knows?) I might be able to take

DJ> That's really quite an idiotic statement.  Giving orders is not a
DJ> defining characteristic of masculinity.

  really?  then what is?  femininty is just the opposite, and before you go
plundering into a losing argument, you should scan the definition in your
webster's... submissiveness, not agression, is one of the "defining
characteristics" as you so well put it, of the feminine behavioral pattern.
                                                  ..c.raven..
--- CNet/3
 * Origin: The Bard's Tavern Denton, TX (817)243-5110 USR 28.8   (1:393/7)

Ä [10] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 157 of 185
 From : Brion Lienhart                      1:213/700.2     .pä 17 .íâ 96 16:17
 To   : Nicolai Shapero
 Subj : Re: nuclear BS
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On Thu Jan 11, Nicolai Shapero said to Chip Griffin:

 CG>Gamma is a particle wave similar to light (but higher energy and
 CG>different
 CG>wave length).  Your microwave emits these to cook your food.

 -NS>I thought that microwaves used a somewhat different range of the
 -NS>electromagnetic spectrum.  As in, radio band?

Gamma Rays are much higher frequency than light. Microwaves are lower frequency
than visible light, just below the infrared band. They used to call them "Radar
Ranges" because some radar sets use the same frequency band. And yes, you can
get cooked if you stand in front of a fire control radar set.




--- QM v1.31
 * Origin: Ministry of Peace - Carson City, NV (1:213/700.2)

Ä [10] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 158 of 185
 From : Frank Swarbrick                     1:104/825       .pä 17 .íâ 96 23:34
 To   : All
 Subj : American Gothic
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12  92-0022
!!  I just finished watching the most recent episode of American
Gothic, and WOW! do I like this show!  Up to this point it's been
good, interesting, creepy, etc. but tonight's episode (called
"Inhumanitas") was awesome.  For one thing, it was wonderful to see
Sheriff Buck actually scared.  He may be the star, but you just love
to see him lose.

Anyway, I don't know how many of you all watch the show, but it seems
to be getting better all the time.  Even if you watched the first
episode or two and didn't like it, I'd recommend trying it again.  It
just keeps getting better.  And I think I've finally found number
five.  I've been trying to figure out my favorite five tv shows on the
air currently.  Now I have Babylon 5, The X-Files, Homicide: Life on
the Street, Due South, and American Gothic.

If anyone wants to discuss AG I'd love to hear from you.  Oh, btw, I
found an AG homepage.  http://www.cbs.com/ag.  The episode summaries
aren't very good, but it has a long an interesting Q&A session with
show creator Shawn Cassidy, executive producer Sam Raimi, and star
Gary Cole.

        Frank

... "It's too late for salvation." --Sheriff Buck
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12
 * Origin: The Bailey Information Exchange BBS, 28.8k v.fc  (1:104/825.0)

Ä [10] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 159 of 185
 From : Frank Swarbrick                     1:104/825       .åò 18 .íâ 96 00:55
 To   : Brandon Wolgast
 Subj : Re: Space: Above & Beyond
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12  92-0022
On 01-16-96  02:07 my Very Good Friend Brandon Wolgast said:

 BW> Who do I like on the show? Well I really like McQueen, he is just a
 BW> good actor, and an all around "cool guy." I have always liked Vansen,
 BW> mainly at first I was like, "Wow, she's fine." And now I just like her
 BW> part, I mean she is still fine of course =) but I really do enjoy her
 BW> character. I don't like (I'll try it here) Danpheus(sp), West, well, he
 BW> is just kinda "there" now, Hawks, I like him better since he got his
 BW> haircut, I honestly forgot the asians name (it's 2:10am as I type this)
 BW> but he is cool.  I know I'm missing some, but my favorites are Vansen
 BW> and McQueen. The most horrible episode to me so far has been their
 BW> "Christmas" one. Pretty sad.  I don't really have a favorite one, the
 BW> one called "Fredd Butt's" was pretty hilarious, I enjoyed that one.

I just wanted to comment...  I liked the "Christmas episode" (The
River of Stars") a lot, actually.  Kind of sappy I suppose, but it was
honest sappiness, not just sappy pretending to be meaningful.  My favorite
episode by far, though, is "Eyes," the conspiracy episode that vaguely
reminded me of Babylon 5.  I haven't seen this week's episode yet (have it
recorded).

I liked "Who Monitors The Birds?" a lot as well.  It was interesting
how it could be so, well, interesting, with so little dialogue.  I
don't think I've ever seen a TV episode with less dialogue.  The wierd
thing is, with his haircut and all the black stuff on his face, I
didn't realize it was Hawkes until almost half way through the
episode!  I just thought it was some guest star, though I couldn't
figure out for the life of me why they were focusing on him.  Call me
slow...

As for characters, they all seemed rather phony at first, but I'm
getting used to them.  Like you, my favorites are Vansen and McQueen,
and my least favorites are West and Damphouse (erk!).

Can't say I cared all that much for "Ray Butts," though.  At least,
not the character.

        Frank

... Did I mention we're federal agents?
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

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Ä [10] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 160 of 185
 From : Damon Benson                        1:3654/202      .åò 18 .íâ 96 00:43
 To   : Mark Comer
 Subj : Question
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12  95-0139
Is it possilbe to send email to an internet address and if so, how would
I go about doing such a thing?

--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12
 * Origin: <GAME WORLD/NEXUS>-SCI-FI Files 910-616-0570  (1:3654/202.0)

Ä [10] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 161 of 185
 From : Judy Hayes                          1:154/40        .ÿò 19 .íâ 96 10:06
 To   : Tony Trujillo
 Subj : Re: "Who" knew.
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

->See you in the next life Tony. We'll laugh & discuss Re: "Who" knew.

 JH> Just a note picked up from Jay Badenhoop's "Mr. Data's Data" -
 JH> "Actor Paul McGann (Alien 3, The Three Musketeers) has just been signed
 JH> to play the title role in the new "Doctor Who" movie.

 TT> I'm a Whovian from WAY back and all I have to say about this
 TT> news is...I'LL BELIEVE IT WHEN I SEE IT! :^)

Of course!  It *was* simply a rumor....I don't think I've seen it in an
"official" publication yet....not even Entertainment Weekly.<g>

 TT> They've been promising new DocWho material for a long time
 TT> now (especially a movie...and I'm talking about since Tom
 TT> Baker's reign) so I have to take this news with a grain of
 TT> Gallifreyian salt! :^)

Now you know how Trek fans felt during all those loooooong years between the
demise of TOS and ST:TMP.  We heard new rumors every year.  ("They're
reviving the show/They're making a movie/They're reviving the show with a
new cast/They were reviving the show but some exec died and the deal fell
through.")

 TT> Here's hoping that the movie actually (excuse the pun)
 TT> materializes this time.

Absolutely!  I, personally, can't wait.

Just hope they don't attempt to...er...Americanize it too much.

      --Quoshara


... "Don't mince words, Tony ... what do you *REALLY* think?"
---
 * Origin: Anonymous BBS -=- Non plus Ultra -=- 414-251-2580 (1:154/40)

Ä [10] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 162 of 185
 From : Frank Glover                        1:2613/477      .åò 18 .íâ 96 22:13
 To   : Christian Raven
 Subj : Re: VIRTUAL SEX
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

CR>  FG>    Or...as a conditioning/brainwashing tool. Which brings us back
CR>  to
CR>  FG> Brainstorm, and a Next Generation episode where the Romulans
CR>  captured
CR>  FG> Geordi, and fed him selected inputs through his Visor
CR>  connections....
CR>  FG>
CR>    yes... and that brings up an intersting idea... not about virtual
CR>  sex, but consider this: if all we are is the sum of our memories
CR>  (which is debatable), then it would be possible, with the aid of
CR>  virtual sensory equipment, to bring up a newborn child in a virtual
CR>  world, thereby controlling who and what he will become... which leads
CR>  us to.. what if that has already been accomplished?

   Something like this was done in `The Boys From Brazil,' which involved a
number of Hitler clones, which were not merely genetically identical, but those
behind theplan tried to insure they were raised in an environment as near that
of the originalas possible....

   And more to your point is `Total Recall.' What indeed if youcould submerge an
old personality and set of memories under a new one...and the new one upon
learning of this, still seeks to preserve his own identity? (If you saw the
movie, the scene where Arnie's character is pursuaded that all his experiences
prior to, and on Mars were the virtual experience he'd asked for [and even I was
having doubts], was ripped off...er, *borrowed* in a recent ST:Voyager episode
where the Doctor is having similar things happen to him...)

   And sometimes, in a wildly philosophical mood, I wonder...when we die...is
the `last' thing we see the words `GAME OVER' flash before us, and then start
taking off a VR suit in another reality...?

   Frank


--- QuickBBS 2.80 GoldBase (Zeta-1)
 * Origin: The Matrix Data Bank BBS, Rochester, Ny (1:2613/477)

Ä [10] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 163 of 185
 From : David Johnston                      1:342/14        .ÿò 19 .íâ 96 00:27
 To   : Mark Jones
 Subj : Nuclear
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
-> DJ> Of course it can't. But I'm losing track of your point. If DJ>
-> electricity magically stops working, many people would die, (but DJ>
-> on the bright side there will be a lot more agricultural jobs). DJ>
-> What does is the supposed significance of this?
-> I was responding to a statement that, if electricity vanished, she
-> would go live on a reservation and hunt for her food.

OK...  Wait, I still don't get it.  Her strategy would in fact seem to
be the best one to encourage personal survival, even if many others
would try to do the same thing.  What's your point?

--- PCBoard (R) v15.21/100
 * Origin: Freddy's Place - Edm. AB - 28.8K (403) 456-4241 (1:342/14)

Ä [10] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 164 of 185
 From : Christian Raven                     1:393/7         .ÿò 19 .íâ 96 11:48
 To   : Glenn Shaheen
 Subj : Re: Star Trek
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

GS>  >  I must have some problems with my terminal, I almost thought you said
GS>  >"good" and "ST:Voyager" in the same sentence.
GS>        At least every episode isn't a comedy like some ST series...
GS>        Ok, maybe there are some problems (the black Vulcan, since for what
GS> I've seen Vulcan is all the same climate) but there have been more good
GS> episodes than bad.


  i'll admit, at least, that there are a few decent episodes... but with what
they have to work with (i.e. a new, unexplored quadrant) i think they could use
a little more imaginiation... it's just seeming rather dry...
                                                  ..c.raven..
--- CNet/3
 * Origin: The Bard's Tavern Denton, TX (817)243-5110 USR 28.8   (1:393/7)

Ä [10] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 165 of 185
 From : Christian Raven                     1:393/7         .ÿò 19 .íâ 96 23:11
 To   : Frank Glover
 Subj : Re: VIRTUAL SEX
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

FG>    Something like this was done in `The Boys From Brazil,' which  involved
FG> a number of Hitler clones, which were not merely genetically  identical,
FG> but those behind theplan tried to insure they were raised in  an
FG> environment as near that of the originalas possible....
FG>
FG>    And more to your point is `Total Recall.' What indeed if youcould
FG> submerge an old personality and set of memories under a new one...and  the
FG> new one upon learning of this, still seeks to preserve his own  identity?
FG> (If you saw the movie, the scene where Arnie's character is  pursuaded
FG> that all his experiences prior to, and on Mars were the  virtual
FG> experience he'd asked for [and even I was having doubts], was  ripped
FG> off...er, *borrowed* in a recent ST:Voyager episode where the  Doctor is
FG> having similar things happen to him...)
FG>
FG>    And sometimes, in a wildly philosophical mood, I wonder...when we
FG> die...is the `last' thing we see the words `GAME OVER' flash before us,
FG> and then start taking off a VR suit in another reality...?
FG>
FG>    Frank
FG>

  heh heh... very heavy my friend.  i was considering something similar as i
made the everyday rounds this evening... it's amazing how much sheer faith one
man can put in his identity.  it seems as though no one really strives to seek
out the truth.. i figure there has to be some *purpose*... and to change the
subject almost altogether (if you're up to it), what are singular human beings,
anyway?  alot of people don't really stop to consider the actual meaning that
Evolution has... charles darwin would lead us to believe that we are ourselves
machines, in a sense.  simply machines with one innate feature seperating us
from the computers we now use... the feature of creating and solving problems
which have not been inputted into our minds... in other words, the ability to
choose our own course of action.. but randomness.. true free will.. that is
impossible.. every action leads to a equal and opposite reaction.. oh well, i'll
hear your reply before i go on...
                                                  ..c.raven..
--- CNet/3
 * Origin: The Bard's Tavern Denton, TX (817)243-5110 USR 28.8   (1:393/7)

Ä [10] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 166 of 185
 From : Todd Sullivan                       1:202/720.3     .åò 18 .íâ 96 20:28
 To   : David Johnston
 Subj : Nuclear
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
While substituting for Q, David Johnston took extreme delight in saying to
Philip Crookes, "You'll do anything I say?"  Philip quailed when the words
"Nuclear" were uttered.

 ->> > Barring a complete collapse of our civilization, I imagine > that
 ->> the purple trefoil will remain a good warning.  If it's
 ->> Turkish people, and some Asian societies, shake their heasds when
 ->> they mean 'yes'
 ->> It would not be hard to suppose that a purple trefoil could be
 ->> interpreted as meaning...
 ->> playground
 ->> sex parlour
 ->> lunch
 ->> safety
 ->> friends

 DJ> Irrelevant.  Purple trefoils are a world-wide standard.

Not irrelevant; the point is that they are standards *now*.  In (arbitrary) 1000
years, "after the fall", they could have highly religious significance.  The
"Plane tribes" of Oceana make effigies of C-47's still.

Todd Sullivan

... A bird in the hand is worth 1000 words!

-*- ASTG 1.9

--- Spot 1.3a Unregistered
 * Origin: Todd's Spot in the Continuum (1:202/720.3)

Ä [10] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 167 of 185
 From : Todd Sullivan                       1:202/720.3     .åò 18 .íâ 96 20:30
 To   : Kay Shapero
 Subj : nuclear BS
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
While substituting for Q, Kay Shapero took extreme delight in saying to me,
"You'll do anything I say?"  I quailed when the words "nuclear BS" were uttered.

 TS>> The methods and motives behind each are mutually exclusive.

 KS> Comments prefixed with letters and > are quotes from other people,
 KS> witness the one of yours I just quoted.  Quotes appear in replies so as
 KS> to let the person to whom the reply is directed what the reply is
 KS> about.  Yes, I know you don't get nuclear explosions from power plants.
 KS> The guy I was writing *to* and who made the statement you are evidently
 KS> replying to seemed to think that a steam explosion served as a counter
 KS> example.  I was informing him that this was not the case.
 KS>

Sorry about that, Kay.  I must have missed it before.

Todd Sullivan

... "Hush!  Hush!  Thought I heard her calling my name." --Deep Purple

-*- ASTG 1.9

--- Spot 1.3a Unregistered
 * Origin: Todd's Spot in the Continuum (1:202/720.3)

Ä [10] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 168 of 185
 From : Todd Sullivan                       1:202/720.3     .åò 18 .íâ 96 20:36
 To   : David Johnston
 Subj : Nowhere Man
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
While substituting for Q, David Johnston took extreme delight in saying to
Stephen Adams, "You'll do anything I say?"  Stephen quailed when the words
"Nowhere Man" were uttered.

 ->> Not personally, but I'm sure that there are. I suppose if a person
 ->> doesn't believe in conspiracies, of any kind, at all, then viewing
 ->> Nowhere Man would be a waste of time.

 DJ> Oh, I believe that conspiracies exist.  I just don't believe that they
 DJ> can simultaneously be so omnipotent and incompetent at the same time.

Hmmm.  History's full of them; all you have to do is look for them.

The CIA had a few laughable ideas as to get rid of Castro, and they're about as
omnipotent as you can get in this country.

Todd Sullivan

... "Confusion now hath made his masterpiece!" --Shakespeare

-*- ASTG 1.9

--- Spot 1.3a Unregistered
 * Origin: Todd's Spot in the Continuum (1:202/720.3)

Ä [10] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 169 of 185
 From : Chris Ogniben                       1:2604/568      .åò 18 .íâ 96 13:20
 To   : Eric Reinholt
 Subj : Star Trek and others
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

   Hey i do watch the X-FILES and STRANGE LUCK.. In fact, i feel as if
i was the first fan, to really enjoy this new series STRANGE LUCK and i
seen every new episode of that show and the X-Files.  The reason that i
have so much time, is what you said.  You are about 30 of age, i am
about just over 20 of age.  And you are married, i am not.  You gota
job, and i don't.  You probably drive your own car, and i don't.  And
you have a life and i don't.  That explains it.  I just spend most of
my time online a lot of places and with all the additional time, sinc
e i don't spend my entire day on a chat board anymore.  That i work on
tons of sci fi text files.  I just finished a new one.. SPACE - ABOVE
AND BEYOND.  I finally was able ot remember the names of the people in
the show, and just did an episode.  Took me three days.  And it is
about 14 pages or so.  It is a good episode, i will upload it here, and
you can read it.  I also finished a great text movie based on a game
that i used t play for hours on end each day.  MAJORMUD.  I all ready
did Majormud 1 2 3 4 and 5.  And just finished the new and improved
majormud which is 6.  Anyways, i will talk to you omre late.r  By the
way, i never knew you were married and was 30 of age.  I thought you
were my age, and seem to be a dude that would like to be friends with
one day.


--- WM v3.11/93-0947
 * Origin: Waterside BBS - NJ - (201) 641-5375 28.8k  (1:2604/568)

Ä [10] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 170 of 185
 From : Chris Ogniben                       1:2604/568      .åò 18 .íâ 96 13:42
 To   : Phill Ash
 Subj : F&SF???
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

   Well, i for one, may be able to enjoy watching sliders again.  All i
know, is that i thought it was a cool idea at first.   But, remember
that show, Deadly Games.  Where after it seemed cool, that all the
crazzy things started to happen.  And for some reason you just like the
show even though it has stupid stuff going on it.  Well some of the
crazzy stuff that happened in Sliders, is the same there.  But, they do
try to make it more realistic, and it some episodes were good.  I was a
fan of sliders, sort of, and i might be able to enjoy watching the
series again, if it really is coming back.


--- WM v3.11/93-0947
 * Origin: Waterside BBS - NJ - (201) 641-5375 28.8k  (1:2604/568)

Ä [10] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 171 of 185
 From : Chris Ogniben                       1:2604/568      .åò 18 .íâ 96 13:43
 To   : Michael Harper
 Subj : Dangerous Babes
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

   Do you people have anything else you may want to talk about, for
Space Above and Beyond.  For one thing, i havn't been able to find much
being discussed in any other forums, other than a networked sci fi
conference.  But, let's see who else is in here, that are fans of space
above and beyond, and let's talk about a few things.  Like episodes we
liked, and stuff that may make intresting discussions started.


--- WM v3.11/93-0947
 * Origin: Waterside BBS - NJ - (201) 641-5375 28.8k  (1:2604/568)

Ä [10] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 172 of 185
 From : Chris Ogniben                       1:2604/568      .åò 18 .íâ 96 13:45
 To   : Michael Harper
 Subj : Dangerous Babes
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

   Hey watch it with the language here.  But, since we are on the
subject of talking about dangerous woman.  What about XENA - WARRIOR
PRINICESS.. She is one hot babe, and one that could really kick your
butt.  I sure would like to take her on a date, or to get to know her
better, maybe even marrying her, and raise a family.  But, the point
is, she is a tough one also.


--- WM v3.11/93-0947
 * Origin: Waterside BBS - NJ - (201) 641-5375 28.8k  (1:2604/568)

Ä [10] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 173 of 185
 From : Chris Ogniben                       1:2604/568      .åò 18 .íâ 96 13:47
 To   : Emilio Ares
 Subj : Re: SLIDERS/ANY NEWS?
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

  Excuse me, are you guys fans of Strange Luck, and seen all the new
episodes.  If i were FOX, i would air Sliders on Thursday night at 8
pm.  Since there really isn't anything else to watch on thursday night,
other than a thursday night prime movie, on HBO, at 9 pm.  This way,
Voyager is on monday.  Tuesday is Deadly Games, and Wednsday is
SeaQuest, Thursday Sliders and Friday's Strange Luck and X files.  ANd
i am a big fan of the show strange luck, and looking to talk about some
of the past episodes with anyone else who is a fan of it.  And i don't
want FOX to get rid of Strange Luck, which is as good as X-Files, to
put in Sliders.  If they do that, i would be very angry at all the
slider fans out there.


--- WM v3.11/93-0947
 * Origin: Waterside BBS - NJ - (201) 641-5375 28.8k  (1:2604/568)

Ä [10] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 174 of 185
 From : Chris Ogniben                       1:2604/568      .åò 18 .íâ 96 13:48
 To   : Emilio Ares
 Subj : Re: X-files
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

   Though it was a very interesting idea, for aliens to use bugs as
little robots to observe earth, that i find it to be stupid idea also.
Since, it deals with bugs, why not just use something else, like a
bird, or a bigger animal.


--- WM v3.11/93-0947
 * Origin: Waterside BBS - NJ - (201) 641-5375 28.8k  (1:2604/568)

Ä [10] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 175 of 185
 From : STEPHEN ADAMS                       1:377/77        .pä 17 .íâ 96 16:26
 To   : CHRISTIAN RAVEN
 Subj : NOWHERE MAN
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE 1.2
On 01/17/96 at 16:26, CHRISTIAN RAVEN uttered these words to ALL:

                        "Nowhere Man"

which prompted this discussion:

CR> I'm curious to know if anyone has any ideas on just who this might be,
CR> because *personally* I think that it's going to end up being his wife,
CR> and that the entire "hidden agenda" (the name of the picture which was
CR> stolen from him) idea was merely a part of some bigger, hidden agenda.

I'll have to think about *that* one. I'm certainly not saying that she's not
a possibility, but I haven't even considered *her* as anything more than a
minion of The Conspiracy.

Later...

Steve
Wednesday, January 17, 1996 at 16:29
Internet:  stephen.adams@bandit-bbs.com

---
 * RM 1.3  * Eval Day 42 *

---  WC!/IM!/GE-PRO1.20!
 * Origin: Longbow BBS! Tampa, FL (813)961-3653 USR V.34+ DS (1:377/77)

Ä [10] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 176 of 185
 From : Trevor Pack                         1:134/125       .ÿò 19 .íâ 96 22:09
 To   : Marco Catalano
 Subj : X-files
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
yeah, i saw that one it was cool. tonight they are showing the one with a
genetic sewer monster fron Russia.

--- Maximus 2.02
 * Origin: View of the Rockies 403-291-6721 Calgary AB (1:134/125)

Ä [10] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 177 of 185
 From : Nicolai Shapero                     1:102/524       .ÿò 19 .íâ 96 06:51
 To   : All
 Subj : Nuclear
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
I think that enough has been said on this topic -- everyone has had their say,
and people are beginning to repeat themselves.  SO...let's declare this one "off
topic" for ninety days (officially, that is, it was in fact off topic from the
start) and go on to more interesting things...

-- Nicolai Shapero, Moderator of the SFFAN echo

--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [10] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 178 of 185
 From : Aaron Turon                         1:137/2         .ÿò 19 .íâ 96 18:35
 To   : All
 Subj : Star Trek
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Who here likes STAR TREK: THE NEXT GENERATION? It's my farvorite(next to
VOYAGER.)   You STAR TREK FAN,
                AARON TURON


                :)


--- Opus-CBCS 1.73a
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Ä [10] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 179 of 185
 From : STEPHEN ADAMS                       1:377/77        .ÿò 19 .íâ 96 09:19
 To   : JON HELIS
 Subj : NOWHERE MAN
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE 1.2
On 01/19/96 at 09:19, JON HELIS uttered these words to STEPHEN ADAMS:
"NOWHERE MAN," which prompted this discussion:

JH> Did you see it this week?

I most certainly did!   :-)

JH> The show has taken an interesting turn,  hasn't it?

Yes it has! Before, I assumed that The Conspiracy simply wanted to get their
hands on the Hidden Agenda negative to keep from facing bad publicity over
the event chronicled in the picture. Killing off Tom in order to get it would
certainly improve their chances of keeping that photo secure.

Now, it appears that, as one other poster here mentioned, that Tom's wife may
have more to do with The Conspiracy chasing after Tom than simply getting
their hands on the negative.

JH> Tom has been offered leads on how to find the people who did it to him.
JH> Is he going to make use of them?

Of course he is - the dialog in the promos for upcoming episodes says
something to the effect that Tom is going to be working his way "up" the
organization till he finds his answers.  :)

Also, see my response to your last question (later in this post).

JH> What will he find in his search, now that he has new clues?

Not many answers right away; definitely more questions. But... at least he has
some sort of path, or guidance, to follow in order to get his questions
answered. Before, he was running around blind, and any answers that he got
came more from dumb luck than anything else.

Another thought just came into my little mind... :) Perhaps we're seeing a
shift in the focus of Tom's character. Instead of seeing him running around as
a man gripped with paranoia, could we be seeing him bent on taking *revenge*?

JH> What consequences will there be from Tom's killing the man who supposedly
JH> ordered the erasure of his life?

First of all, Tom *didn't* kill Mr. Grayson (I think that was his
protagonist's name). We assume that The Insider feeding Tom his info was the
killer, but as the actual murderer was off-camera, we don't know for sure.
What we *do* know is that Tom was knocked unconscious *before* the murder
occurred.

Of course, Tom left evidence at the scene of the crime that proved that he was
*in the room*, which circumstantially, *might* prove him to be the killer in
a court of law. But, as we saw at the end of the episode, another *innocent*
was eventually charged with the crime, so Tom was off-the-hook - for now. But,
in the eyes of The Conspiracy, Tom *knew* who the killer was, so he will be
hunted down for that (along with their original intent of getting the Hidden
Agenda negative).

From this episode, we now have a *feeling* that Tom's wife has more to do with
his "erasure" than we previously had known. Perhaps her character will come
into play more and more. (Hopefully, we'll get to see this, but through the
eyes of Tom - I certainly don't want to see this take place through the eyes
of a third party!)

I expect to see a "harder-edged," more focussed Tom than what we saw before;
grittier and more revengeful, but still just inside the law. But, I also tend
to think that Tom may act like he's just following someone else's plan (the
unknown Insider's), feeling trapped at times. Tom will almost *have* to use
the clues provided by, and play by the rules of, The Insider (another
reason to my "yes" answer to one of your above questions), or run the risk of
being turned in (by The Insider) as Grayson's (?) murderer.

Interesting character, this Tom Veil: paranoid man seeking revenge under the
possible threat of blackmail.   :)

Later...

Steve
Friday, January 19, 1996 at 09:58 ET
Internet:  stephen.adams@bandit-bbs.com

---
 * RM 1.3  * Eval Day 44 *

---  WC!/IM!/GE-PRO1.20!
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Ä [10] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 180 of 185
 From : STEPHEN ADAMS                       1:377/77        .ÿò 19 .íâ 96 10:06
 To   : DAVID JOHNSTON
 Subj : NOWHERE MAN
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE 1.2
On 01/19/96 at 10:06, DAVID JOHNSTON uttered these words to STEPHEN ADAMS:
"Nowhere Man," which prompted this discussion:

DJ> Oh, I believe that conspiracies exist.  I just don't believe that they can
DJ> simultaneously be so omnipotent and incompetent at the same time.

Let's not forget that Tom Veil is but ONE of the "erased" people that The
Conspiracy has to account for. We assume that there are actually a great
number of these "erased" people eluding them. What this means is that The
Conspiracy, therefore, must have some sort of bureaucracy going that tries to
keep track of them - hence, innate incompetency.

Also, The Conspiracy needs to do their "hunting" in *private*, so as not to
alert the general populace of its existence. Anything done under the cloak of
secrecy has its hands tied in some respects, again leading to a certain amount
of inborn incompetence.

Besides, the incompetence helps to give Tom the cracks that he needs to squeak
through in order to keep the series on the air.  :)

Later...

Steve
Friday, January 19, 1996 at 10:12 ET
Internet:  stephen.adams@bandit-bbs.com

---
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Ä [10] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 181 of 185
 From : STEPHEN ADAMS                       1:377/77        .ÿò 19 .íâ 96 10:31
 To   : MARK JONES
 Subj : NOWHERE MAN            01
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE 1.2
On 01/19/96 at 10:31, MARK JONES uttered these words to STEPHEN ADAMS:
"NOWHERE MAN," which prompted this discussion:

MJ> In real life, when strange things happen, you simply accept them.  There
MJ> they are.  They don't *need* justification--they HAPPENED.

Maybe that thought process works for you and the people you know, but not for
me. I've had too many "strange" things happen in my life (*not* my
perception, but the perceptions of many people who are very close to me) to
simply accept them. I've felt compelled to try and find some answers for some
of them, and in cases, found enough answers to indicate that someone else was
"behind" it. I was able, therefore, to put a stop to a few more "strange"
things before they actually happened.

MJ> But one of the first things a beginning writer learns (or should learn) is
MJ> that "but this really happened to me/a friend!" is no defense.

I hope you're not implying that writers are *supposed* to follow rules and/or
formulas to produce their works.   :)

My tastes tend to gravitate toward the bizarre. Also, it doesn't hurt if the
work borders on some anarchy as well. :)

I don't enjoy works that have things so neatly explained as to keep a
viewer/reader following a prescribed path to the intended conclusion.

MJ> The more bizarre an event is, the *more* justification it requires before
MJ> a reader will accept it.

Not true - just look at me! :)

(Also, you *seem* to contradict this statement a little further down in your
post.)

MJ> If the show is simply an excuse to vicariously experience raging paranoia,
MJ> I'll pass.  I can get all the paranoia I want by cruising the net.

And what's wrong with the subject of a television show centering on the
emotion(?) of paranoia? It seems we have plenty of shows about the more talked
about (and beat-to-death, IMO) aspects of love, laughter, hate, et al.

As far as the 'net goes, yeah, there *does* seem to be a bit of paranoia on
it. But then again, who's to say that it's real, imagined, or purposefully
made up? Hmm?  :)

MJ> But to each his own.  Other people seem to really like this one.

Then, this statement *seems* to contradict your "more bizarre = more
justification" statement above. And yes, I agree - to each his own.

MJ> I suspect that there *aren't* any answers--and while that may strike some
MJ> viewers as a cool philosophical position to take, I don't care for it.

It may turn out that you are completely correct. And it could also be quite
possible that this whole story of Tom Veil may be nothing more than one huge
dream (maybe induced by some illicit substances?)! I would hope not, but I
can't escape the feeling that each episode is just one small part of a
constantly recurring dream. To me, each episode is written with a vagueness
similar to what I experience in recurring dreams.

That's what's so cool about this show, IMO. It is so open right now to many
possible interpretations, that *any* of them, or *none* of them may actually
be the *right* one.

MJ>> If she was a ringer all along, why didn't they just have her
MJ>> *steal* the negatives, or at least find out where he kept them
MJ>> (so experts could blow the safe, for instance).

SA>> Well, if they did *that*, then there would be no more story. :)

MJ> No, it would have required some serious work on the writers' parts, but
MJ> they could have still had a story.  But they would have had to *explain*
MJ> why that wouldn't work...instead of simply ignoring that option.

It all boils down to a matter of tastes. You seem to prefer writing that uses
auxiliary characters and scenes to help define the main character and his/her
condition. I prefer a minimalist-type of writer who lets the audience make
judgements about the plot based only upon what the main character perceives.

I won't get into an argument as to which style of writing requires more work.
I've experimented with both styles myself and, as far as I'm concerned, both
require an extraordinary amount of effort in order to put out an interesting
product. :)

Also, it would seem to me that any discussions that centers on writing styles
.
Continued in the next message...

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Ä [10] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 182 of 185
 From : STEPHEN ADAMS                       1:377/77        .ÿò 19 .íâ 96 10:31
 To   : MARK JONES
 Subj : NOWHERE MAN            02
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE 1.2
Continued from the previous message...
.
could be off-topic in this echo; more appropriate in the "writing" echo, if
one exists (and no, I don't frequent that echo). :)

MJ> [Maybe he wouldn't *tell* her where the negatives were. Which, she being
MJ> his wife, would be an interesting insight in Tom Veil *before* the
MJ> conspiracy was revealed, don't you think?  Perhaps he was paranoid all
MJ> along....]

Again, another possibility for the outcome behind Nowhere Man. I don't
discount such thinking, as it is as valid as another person's thoughts.

MJ> Any halfway competent conspiracy could have gotten the information from
MJ> HIM in half a dozen different ways.

Nowhere in the series was it *ever* said that The Conspiracy was a *competent*
bunch. In fact, They *could be* somewhat incompetent, and the reasons for this
could be many, but hear (read?) this one out.

Tom is *no*t the only victim of this group of people; there are possibly
hundreds of victims. To keep track of every single "nowhere person" on the run
would require a vast bureaucracy, and we only have to look at our own local,
state, and federal governments for examples of *incompetency* at work! :) So,
what you call incompetency, I tend to call bureaucracy.

Hey.....! You seem to ask a bunch of questions/offer a lot of opinions
regarding a show you've only seen *one-half* of an episode of! Are you just
yanking our chains...????    :-)

Later...

Steve
Friday, January 19, 1996 at 12:46 ET
Internet:  stephen.adams@bandit-bbs.com

---
 * RM 1.3  * Eval Day 44 *

---  WC!/IM!/GE-PRO1.20!
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Ä [10] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 183 of 185
 From : STEPHEN ADAMS                       1:377/77        .ÿò 19 .íâ 96 12:50
 To   : MARK JONES
 Subj : NOWHERE MAN
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE 1.2
On 01/19/96 at 12:50, MARK JONES uttered these words to STEPHEN ADAMS:
"NOWHERE MAN," which prompted this discussion:

DJ> Do you know anyone who just balks at the utter implausibility of
DJ> what is going on?

SA> Not personally, but I'm sure that there are.

MJ> Me.  Me!  ME!  (Waving hand frantically to attract attention....)  That
MJ> describes me perfectly.

Hey...! Now I KNOW you're just trying to get me going... you..., you...,
CHAIN-YANKER you!   <VBG>

MJ> I balk at the utter implausibility of a conspiracy which is at the same
MJ> time so all-encompassing that it can make Tom Veil's entire life vanish in
MJ> the time it takes him to visit the bathroom in a restaurant AND which
MJ> cannot pry relatively simple information out of a man they've successfully
MJ> confined to a mental hospital (using drugs, torture, threats against loved
MJ> ones, or simple sleep deprivation).

OK, such a conspiracy *may* not exist in real life (let's hope not!),
*but*, there are organizations who *are* nearly omnipotent, and at the same
time, incompetent.  Take the federal witness protection program for one.

That program can take a witness, under secrecy if so desired, and give them a
completely new identity. So new, in fact, that not even close friends and
relatives have a *clue* as to what happened to the witness. (Sort of a
reversal here: Nowhere Man - Tom Veil "loses" an entire society; witness
protection program - an entire society "loses" an individual). However, due to
foul-ups and such at the bureaucratic level, leaks have been known to get out
regarding witnessess' new identities, which causes breakdowns in the new
identities. This does happen.

Later...

Steve
Friday, January 19, 1996 at 13:11 ET
Internet:  stephen.adams@bandit-bbs.com

---
 * RM 1.3  * Eval Day 44 *

---  WC!/IM!/GE-PRO1.20!
 * Origin: Longbow BBS! Tampa, FL (813)961-3653 USR V.34+ DS (1:377/77)

Ä [10] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 184 of 185
 From : Don Dellmann                        1:154/40        .óá 20 .íâ 96 06:50
 To   : Brion Lienhart
 Subj : Re: nuclear BS
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
While tripping merrily through the mail, Brion Lienhart was overheard

 BL> Gamma Rays are much higher frequency than light. Microwaves are lower
 BL> frequency than visible light, just below the infrared band. They used
 BL> to call them "Radar Ranges" because some radar sets use the same
 BL> frequency band. And yes, you can get cooked if you stand in front of a
 BL> fire control radar set.

It's said that the man who invented the Microwave oven was a technician for
Raytheon who discovered "cooked" birds in radar antennas during WW II.

Don


... When I was your age, we carved transistors out of wood.
---
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Ä [10] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 185 of 185
 From : Don Dellmann                        1:154/40        .óá 20 .íâ 96 06:50
 To   : Frank Glover
 Subj : Re: VIRTUAL SEX
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
While tripping merrily through the mail, Frank Glover was overheard

 FG> And more to your point is `Total Recall.' What indeed if youcould
 FG> submerge an old personality and set of memories under a new one...and
 FG> the new one upon learning of this, still seeks to preserve his own
 FG> identity? (If you saw the movie, the scene where Arnie's character is
 FG> pursuaded that all his experiences prior to, and on Mars were the
 FG> virtual experience he'd asked for [and even I was having doubts], was
 FG> ripped off...er, *borrowed* in a recent ST:Voyager episode where the
 FG> Doctor is having similar things happen to him...)

Which sounds suspiciously like a 1966 Phillip K. Dick short story
"We Can Remember It For You Wholesale"

Don

... I'm Heisenberg of Borg. Then again maybe I'm not.
---
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Ä [18] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 1 of 143
 From : Chris Ogniben                       1:2604/568      .ÿò 19 .íâ 96 11:32
 To   : Donald Sohn
 Subj : X-Files & E.T.
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

   What are you talking about here, give me more info.


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Ä [18] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 2 of 143
 From : Chris Ogniben                       1:2604/568      .ÿò 19 .íâ 96 11:34
 To   : Chris Bach
 Subj : X-files
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

   Hey man, what kind of life do you have if you have tons of QWK
packets, and you havn't even finished with them yet.  Since, you must
really have a lot of time on your hands, to be able to deal with all
those QWK packets.  And as for Weird science, apparently i never got
hooked to that series.  I mean, i just like real quality sci fi stuff,
and i think the weird science show is not real good quality sci fi
show.  And, that is why i don't watch it.  I think Kelly Lebrock was a
better lisa, and though the new lisa is very pretty, that i think she
better be off on baywatch or something.  Anyways, that is all i have to
say.


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Ä [18] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 3 of 143
 From : Chris Ogniben                       1:2604/568      .ÿò 19 .íâ 96 11:38
 To   : Chris Bach
 Subj : X-FILES CHRISTMAS
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

   Well, apparently when it comes to UFO's and stuff, Skully doesn't
beleive, and we all found out that it wasn't aliens sort to speak that
abuducted her.  Or at least, we do not know fully to what happened to
her back in that episode.  As for the aliens that Mulder and Skully
seen at that warehouse episode, and all those files, and Mulder finds
out what his father been up to.  And his father got killed.  And that
the aliens that were in that one, were very real.  But, apparently
Skully just doesn't follow the same view point.  Either because she
doesn't know what she saw, or that she refuses to beleive what is
really happening.  Anyways, i think it was time for mulder to be
skepticle, since it was dealing with something that was all written in
the bible.  And that is what the episode was about mostly, which is GOD
and other stuff.  Or was it the episode about where Skully founded out
that she wasn't the only one that was upducted sort to speak, and she
met all these other women, who seem to know her, and been through the
same experience with her.  Can someone refreshen my memory to what
exactly happened in that episode, where Mulder just didn't beleive what
skully was talking about.  I remember it dealt with someone who was
strangling people with his hands, and left burning marks as if the
devil was in his body.  So, i think that was the episode.  And all i
have to say there, true or not true, there is no proof for Mulder to
beleive that religion is playing a major part in life, and that things
that skully thought was real is real.


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Ä [18] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 4 of 143
 From : Chris Ogniben                       1:2604/568      .ÿò 19 .íâ 96 11:40
 To   : Kevin Ahearn
 Subj : Re: SLIDERS/ANY NEWS?
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

   I am surprised how the other stations don't even measure up clsoe to
what FOX has been doing.  They have ice hockey, the NFL football thing
till the play offs were over.  And a lot of other great shows.
Apparently CBS is dead, and NBC is jsut good only because of the NBA
bastketabll, the superbowl and some sci fi stuff.  And channel 7 is
really dead, i hardly been able to watch anything on channel 7 for a
long time now.. ABC sucks.  And channel 9, is ok, but it's UPN, so,
they always have good stuff on certain days.


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Ä [18] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 5 of 143
 From : Chris Ogniben                       1:2604/568      .ÿò 19 .íâ 96 11:41
 To   : Shawn Merrow
 Subj : Re: nuclear BS
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

   Man, just reading that hurts.  I mean, they took rod out, and
explosion happened, two dudes fly off, another dude get's the rod into
his body.  I mean, impaled that is.  It just sounds very painful, and
makes you think twice than to be working at a nuclear power planet.
Thank goodness that, no radiation leaked out, or anything else that
could have happend in a very bad way, didn't.
/s


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Ä [18] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 6 of 143
 From : Chris Ogniben                       1:2604/568      .ÿò 19 .íâ 96 11:43
 To   : Channon Lang
 Subj : Re: Good Ole Riker...
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

    Hold on, please tell me this again.  You said something to basic
appearces made by Jonathan Frakes, who is Wil Riker on STTNG.
Appearing with his wife on a show.  The only show that i can remmber
seeing them in, was whatever you mentioned.


--- WM v3.11/93-0947
 * Origin: Waterside BBS - NJ - (201) 641-5375 28.8k  (1:2604/568)

Ä [18] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 7 of 143
 From : Chris Ogniben                       1:2604/568      .ÿò 19 .íâ 96 11:43
 To   : Channon Lang
 Subj : Re: Star Trek
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

   which episode was this, of TREK or Babylon 5, that had the aliens
engaged in this sex scene that made you laugh that you just stated
there.


--- WM v3.11/93-0947
 * Origin: Waterside BBS - NJ - (201) 641-5375 28.8k  (1:2604/568)

Ä [18] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 8 of 143
 From : Aaron Turon                         1:137/2         .óá 20 .íâ 96 11:21
 To   : All
 Subj : Star Trek
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
If you have Win95, then your in luck! I have a bunch of sounds, pictures, and
other stuff form Star Trek for Win95!
  If anyone wants it, just say so! :)


--- Opus-CBCS 1.73a
 * Origin: Chipper Clipper * Scott me up beamy! * 941-745-56 (1:137/2.0)

Ä [18] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 9 of 143
 From : Lawrence E Dunlap                   1:106/2927      .pä 17 .íâ 96 18:18
 To   : David Johnston
 Subj : Re: Tv And Sf
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

DJ>.MH>The rule is the thirty-five year-old construction worker who
DJ>.MH>American Gladiators and Cops. He's got a wife who's five
DJ>.MH>years younger than him, six kids, a pickup, a bad-tempered
DJ>.MH>and an eighteen-year-old college cheerleader he's
DJ>-MH> fooling around with on the side.
DJ>->
DJ>-> My father's generation fought WWII, his brothers fought Korea and
DJ>-> Vidtnam so *this* kind of Baby Boomer could be free to be such a low
DJ>-> breed of life *just* described?
DJ>
DJ>You got a problem with that?
DJ> Origin: (1:342/14)

   I would be a 4-F because of brain chemistry in a *real* war. This
kind of ignorant savage is going to defend ME when I might have to bear
arms to DEFEND MY OWN KIND??? Maybe I could have a nightmare abuot it, yes.

DJ>-ED> Any civillized 21st Century culture cannot exist with such poorly
DJ>-ED> bred citizen of this level of ethical values and literacy in the
DJ>-ED> sciences as portrayed by the composite man just presented here.
DJ>-ED> For one thing, in democracies such a man must be currently literate
DJ>-ED> in the sciences to effectively vote intelligently on scientific
DJ>-ED> issues.

DJ>When did scientific issues become particularly a matter of popular
DJ>vote?

   Someday this sleeping monster would have to become informed--what
happens when such a composite of citizenery has to vote in restrictive
rules about cherished activities upon themselves becauuse of global
warming, such as giving some forms of refrigeration up to reduce
greenhouse gases, for instince?

   THIS person can deliberate about *that* kind of issue? More
importantly, would such a ignorant person eeen accept any sort of
intrusive restriction to stop global warming?

DJ>-ED> Why does my guts suspect a educated and ethical population might not
DJ>-ED> buy so much nonrenewable consumables or docilely accept this level of
DJ>-ED> mediocracy in entertainment?

DJ>I am educated.  I hope I am ethical.  But I enjoy mediocre
DJ>entertainment.

   I'm not on a crusade to bahish mediocre entertainment, understand.
What concerns me is that a society such as ours and Europe demands
discerning, reasoning people who can think about the deeper issues of
life without having an allergic reaction to serious thinking.

   Actually, true democracy works at its best when there is a
population thinking and reasoning with themselves about deep and serious
issues to the end these citizens competently instruct their delegated
governmental officals to carry out prudent and sound wishes and operate
our econony and technology humanely without serious stress on indidivual
personal reationships and lifestyles,

   I question the durability of a society that is this ignorant and
intellectually defective because its citizens rule their peers

   You can watch every minute of medicore entertainment and I can
choose to pass that up. I'm not against its production in a society
where the more thoughtful don't have to be concerned about its viewers
accurately distinguishing fiction from reality, good and bad science
from academic research scientists, good and bad policy from elected
officials.

   Back to the sponge-mind person referred to at the start of my reply:
What could happen if this kind of individual becomes prevalent globally?


Lawrence E Dunlap
(1:106/2927)
___
* UniQWK #5136* Best thing about the future: it comes one day at a time

--- Alexi/Mail 2.02b (#10000)
 * Origin: Computer Living F'n BBS-Houston, TX 713-444-2927 (1:106/2927)

Ä [18] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 10 of 143
 From : Lawrence E Dunlap                   1:106/2927      .pä 17 .íâ 96 18:39
 To   : Michael Harper
 Subj : tv and sf
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

MH>.ED> The American networks tried to rise above the poor breeding of
MH>.ED>the typical American.

MH>But don't forget, for every BBC Shakespeare production, there were half
MH>a dozen sitcoms that were just as brainless as anything we have here.
MH>The British and Europeans aren't the paragons of culture you'd like to
MH>think; ten years ago, I saw a Scots folk band called the Tannahill
MH>Weavers here. During the course of their show, they lamented the fact
MH>that they were missing _Dallas_. At the time, it was a national
MH>obsession in Britain and Europe.
MH> Origin: (1:123/10)

   Correct. And Britian's system seems better able to rule their
elected officials as well as many of their own kind, though.

MH>.ED> My father's generation fought WWII, his brothers fought Korea and
MH>.ED> Vietnam so *this* kind of Baby Boomer could be free to be such a low
MH>.ED> breed of life *just* described?

MH>Yes. We need Joe Average the sheetrock worker and Steve Ordinary the
MH>auto mechanic as much or more than we do the Sagans and Hawkings of
MH>this world. Somebody has to do the work. It's not his fault that the
MH>country he lives in is about twentieth in educational standards, and
MH>possibly lower in literacy.

   My issue about that wasn't literacy, was loyalty to cohesive
relationships that lead him to resist committing behavioral and
relational treason in his lifestyle.

   Joe Average's education and ethical literacy doesn't help him
understand fidelity to integrity nor how his treasonous choices in the
lifestyle you described compute as a capacity to share intellectual
coherence as a voter when leaders ask him to compute how governmental
programs actually cost everyone like himself a share of his own/her own
money to make those programs useful and shareable by all past a
particular point of merit and need.

MH>Do you know who the most literate people in the world are? Oil riggers.
MH>Especially the ones on platforms and on towboats. They read everything,
MH>and read it again, and then read it to each other.

   I wasn't aware of that facet of oil riggers' recreational lifestyle.

MH>.ED> Any civilized 21st Century culture cannot exist with such poorly
MH>.ED> bred citizens of this level of ethical values and literacy in the
MH>.ED> sciences as portrayed by the composite man just presented here.

MH>Blame the schools and the government. While you're at it, blame the
MH>people who let the schools and government get into such a state. We're
MH>the barbarians, son. We've planted the seeds of our own destruction.
MH>It's up to us to do something about it.

   Accurate in part for all. Please note my remarks about behavioral
treason. It applies to edcuational and governmenbtal leadership decay.

MH>.ED> For one thing, in democracies such a man must be currently literate
MH>.ED> in the sciences to effectively vote intelligently on scientific
MH>.ED> issues. *This* kind of a vacuum brained man would vote in a tyranny!
MH>
MH>He's a sleeping dragon, Lawrence. If something should rouse him, the
MH>Common Man will strike out with terrifying force.

   Excellent point. But remember he may have to vote restrictions
pertainin to global warming as it affects him personally. *This* kind of
person can make those hard decisions, correct?

MH>.ED> You're suggesting--impuigning!--that civlilized intelligent life
MH>.ED> isn't preponderant in our country because popular media has cultivated
MH>.ED> empty-minded life to prevent any critical thinking about nonrenewable
MH>.ED> consumer products to protect easy profit margins.

MH>Yes. Because no one ever lost money underestimating the intelligence of
MH>the average human. And this planned obsolesence/lowbrow culture has
MH>been spoonfed to us for years.

   Can such a economic system endure the gap between opportunities
created by defective edcucations that is widened by proflagate increases
of new technologcial instruments and applicances into everyday life???

   Can such a population of educationally defective indivivduals be
supported during the aging of the Baby Boomers??

MH>.ED> Why does my gut suspect a educated and ethical population might
MH>.ED> not buy so much nonrenewable consumables or docilely accept this level
MH>.ED> of mediocrity in entertainment?

MH>The audience isn't the problem. The execs and the sponsors are the
MH>problem. The government is a major problem when it comes to
MH>nonrenewables. Read _Fallen Angels_ by Larry Niven, Jerry Pournelle and
MH>Michael Flynn. Then get back to me on nonrenewable resources.

   Hmmm. Time to pay off my library card fine!

MH>.ED> What is your thinking about any good SF finding a place in mass
MH>.ED> market media with the declining educational sharpness that you've just
MH>.ED> highlighted? To say nothing of the survival of a educationally
MH>.ED> literate television system in the US?

MH>Not much chance, I'm afraid. . .But as long as television depends on
MH>corporate sponsors, quality will be mediocre at best. The occasional
MH>bright spot like B5 will be rare, and cherished by those of us who know
MH>something good when they see it. The rest of the world will keep
MH>watching reruns of Full House...

   So will I as well.

MH>... Drop out of school before your mind rots and go to the library. -Zappa

   Which Zappa said that? Frank or Moon Umit? Consider it stolen!




Lawrence E Dunlap
(1:106/2927)
___
* UniQWK #5136* Drop out of school before your mind rots and go to the library.

--- Alexi/Mail 2.02b (#10000)
 * Origin: Computer Living F'n BBS-Houston, TX 713-444-2927 (1:106/2927)

Ä [18] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 11 of 143
 From : Jon Glenn                           1:396/1030      .cê 21 .íâ 96 02:21
 To   : Stephen Adams
 Subj : NOWHERE MAN
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12  93-0696
Stephen posts in the sunlit world he believes is reality...

 SA> to think that Tom may act like he's just following someone else's plan
 SA> (the  unknown Insider's), feeling trapped at times. Tom will almost
 SA> *have* to use  the clues provided by, and play by the rules of, The
 SA> Insider (another  reason to my "yes" answer to one of your above
 SA> questions), or run the risk of
 SA> being turned in (by The Insider) as Grayson's (?) murderer.
 SA> Interesting character, this Tom Veil: paranoid man seeking revenge
 SA> under the  possible threat of blackmail.   :)

              Then again, the picture may hold nothing at all. This insider
needed a tool to start killing his way to the top. Along comes this photo of
US troops doing something that they're not supposed to. "Bingo" says the
insider, "I'll just make this poor shmuck's life hell so that he'll be
looking for payback. Then I start giving him just enough info start icing my
compitition." On the other tentacle, the insider might be a mole from another
group who's trying to bring down the first one. Same basic scenario, but a
different motavation for the insider. We still don't know how many
Conspiracies there are. For example, the military academy with all those
Hitler Youth could have been run by a rival group who were wondering just
what is so important about the negatives, while the evil food corp is owned
by the hidden village who claimed that they weren't "THEM". I suspect that
the fun is only beginning.....

                                              Jon


... ESCHATON.SYS Found. Immanentize? (Yes/No/Quit/Fnord)?
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12
 * Origin: Black Tower BBS!  (1:396/1030.0)

Ä [18] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 12 of 143
 From : Christian Raven                     1:393/7         .óá 20 .íâ 96 18:32
 To   : Stephen Adams
 Subj : Re: Nowhere Man
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

SA> CR> I'm curious to know if anyone has any ideas on just who this might be,
SA> CR> because *personally* I think that it's going to end up being his wife,
SA> CR> and that the entire "hidden agenda" (the name of the picture which was
SA> CR> stolen from him) idea was merely a part of some bigger, hidden agenda.

SA> I'll have to think about *that* one. I'm certainly not saying that she's
SA> not
SA> a possibility, but I haven't even considered *her* as anything more than a

SA> minion of The Conspiracy.

   well you have to consider this.. we've seen too much of her action for her to
be just a paid off or scared off conspirator... remember the episode where Tom
was sent to the insane asylum?  There was a part which showed her talking to the
head psyche... there have also been other scenes involving her in what appears
to be more than just a one-show deal... we'll see..
                                                      ..c.raven..
--- CNet/3
 * Origin: The Bard's Tavern Denton, TX (817)243-5110 USR 28.8   (1:393/7)

Ä [18] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 13 of 143
 From : Jon Foster                          1:153/7019      .óá 20 .íâ 96 03:03
 To   : ROBERT LIDGREN
 Subj : Good Ole Riker...
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: FastEcho 1.45a UNREG

rl > He always struck me as an actor who took on his role in
rl > STTNG
rl > with great earnest and a zest for life.  Has anyone seen or
rl > heard
rl > anything else about Frakes?

Well, he's directing a new CD ROM where you are a Starfleet cadet and part of
your training to go to the Klingon Homeworld to learn about their culture,
does the voice of Xanatos (sp?) on Gargoyles, been on an episode of Wings,
and will be appearing on an upcoming episode of Voyager.

---
 * Origin: * T.S. * New Westminster, B.C. * Lady 8i8's Playground * (1:153/7019)

Ä [18] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 14 of 143
 From : Tim Stackpool                       3:712/505       .åò 18 .íâ 96 02:27
 To   : Tommy Kellerman
 Subj : Re: V
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 -=> Quoting Tommy Kellerman to All <=-

 TK> Hiya All!

 TK> Does anyone know how many episodes of "V" that are available?

 TK> In Sweden they've shown about twelve, but I suspect
 TK> there are more available.

 Tommy I'll try to find out. (I know there was at least two seasons here)
    Where in Sweden are you?

 Hej do
 Tim

 Australia

... All I need is a Wave and a board to surf it on.
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
 * Origin: Sydney PC Users Group Mail Exchange (3:712/505)

Ä [18] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 15 of 143
 From : Tim Stackpool                       3:712/505       .åò 18 .íâ 96 02:29
 To   : Donald Sohn
 Subj : Re: X-Files & E.T.
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 -=> Quoting Donald Sohn to All <=-

 DS> Did anyone see the short story that Entertainment Tonight had on
 DS> Gillian Anderson and David Duchovney posing for Rolling Stones?  I
 DS> think it's just for Australia though.  :(
 DS> Anybody from Australia?


 Never saw the story on ET
 But we have that edition of Rolling Stone.
 Is that what you want?

 Regards Tim





... Who is General Failure and why's he reading my hard disk?
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR]
 * Origin: Sydney PC Users Group Mail Exchange (3:712/505)

Ä [18] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 16 of 143
 From : John Arnold                         3:632/103       .òp 16 .íâ 96 10:25
 To   : The Raven
 Subj : nuclear
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

> -=>what is dresden fill me in.

 PL>> It's a shame History classes leave out so much these days...

>     It shows us, however, that this person is less than 20 years old.

Under 20?
Hell we were never told anything about it at school...
I didn't hear about it until I found Slaughterhouse-Five...
We covered more old English history than we did WW1 or 2 at school.
I don't know what the high schools were like covering history, but
I think Techical school history at my school was much the same from
class to class, teacher to teacher...

Maybe you need to update that to less than 30 years old?
;-)

BFN,
    John.

--- Maximus/2 3.00
 * Origin: Decadence BBS (3:632/103)

Ä [18] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 17 of 143
 From : Todd Sullivan                       1:202/720.3     .óá 20 .íâ 96 13:01
 To   : David Johnston
 Subj : Nuclear, electricity and survival
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
While substituting for Q, David Johnston took extreme delight in saying to Mark
Jones, "You'll do anything I say?"  Mark quailed when the words "Nuclear" were
uttered.

 ->> I was responding to a statement that, if electricity vanished, she
 ->> would go live on a reservation and hunt for her food.

 DJ> OK...  Wait, I still don't get it.  Her strategy would in fact seem to
 DJ> be the best one to encourage personal survival, even if many others
 DJ> would try to do the same thing.  What's your point?

If you want a chilling idea about what would really happen if it all went away,
read Pat Frank's "Alas, Babylon".  It makes the point that not everyone caould
or would be able to make the transition, and that the predators would still be
there.

Todd Sullivan

... I'm a Zen nudist--I'm naked in my own mind.

-*- ASTG 1.9

--- Spot 1.3a Unregistered
 * Origin: Todd's Spot in the Continuum (1:202/720.3)

Ä [18] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 18 of 143
 From : Todd Sullivan                       1:202/720.3     .óá 20 .íâ 96 13:07
 To   : Chris Ogniben
 Subj : X-files and insects
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
While substituting for Q, Chris Ogniben took extreme delight in saying to Emilio
Ares, "You'll do anything I say?"  Emilio quailed when the words "X-files" were
uttered.

 CO>    Though it was a very interesting idea, for aliens to use bugs as
 CO> little robots to observe earth, that i find it to be stupid idea also.
 CO> Since, it deals with bugs, why not just use something else, like a
 CO> bird, or a bigger animal.

Complexity and economics come to mind, even for advanced technology.

Insects have simpler behavioral patterns, and are much smaller.  Several million
of them is batter than a much more complex organism; birds are probably the
limit, and their purpose is intelligence gathering.  Not to say that more
advanced probes aren't possible, but you need to find out what else is there
before you invest your time and effort.

There was an article in Scientific American about an insect-like robot called
"Attila" that was made along the lines of insects, all based on simple
stimulus/response programming.  It made sense, and it's in the realm of today's
technology.  I think that was the point that was being made.

Todd Sullivan

... Politically incorrect and DAMNED proud of it!!!

-*- ASTG 1.9

--- Spot 1.3a Unregistered
 * Origin: Todd's Spot in the Continuum (1:202/720.3)

Ä [18] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 19 of 143
 From : Todd Sullivan                       1:202/720.3     .óá 20 .íâ 96 13:08
 To   : Christian Raven
 Subj : Star Trek Sexism
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
While substituting for Q, Christian Raven took extreme delight in saying to
David Johnston, "You'll do anything I say?"  David quailed when the words "Star
Trek" were uttered.

 DJ>> That's really quite an idiotic statement.  Giving orders is not a
 DJ>> defining characteristic of masculinity.

 CR>   really?  then what is?  femininty is just the opposite, and before
 CR> you go plundering into a losing argument, you should scan the
 CR> definition in your webster's... submissiveness, not agression, is one
 CR> of the "defining characteristics" as you so well put it, of the
 CR> feminine behavioral pattern.

Barefoot, pregnant and in the kitchen, eh?  And just what century do you think
you're living in?

You might like that kind of woman, but most children want everything their way,
too.  I prefer a partner, not a slave.

Todd Sullivan

... "You are not ready for immortality." --Kosh

-*- ASTG 1.9

--- Spot 1.3a Unregistered
 * Origin: Todd's Spot in the Continuum (1:202/720.3)

Ä [18] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 20 of 143
 From : Brad Morgan                         1:342/63        .ÿò 19 .íâ 96 10:15
 To   : Chris Thurman
 Subj : Science Fiction
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
CT->If you want the area code for Mike and are willing to pay long distance th
CT->call 203-386-0660.

I was kidding....I have no desire to call anywhere LD...


---
 À SIG 3.0 [NR] À I'll bet on whoever is playing Calgary...I'll be rich!!!

 * SLMR 2.1a * Hey Look! it's the Wit Brothers: Half, Dim and Nit!
--- Renegade v10-05 Exp
 * Origin: The Ferret Farm BBs -403-457-3396- (1:342/63)

Ä [18] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 21 of 143
 From : Brad Morgan                         1:342/63        .ÿò 19 .íâ 96 10:15
 To   : Frank Glover
 Subj : Re: Star Trek Comics
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
FG->SM>  DC and Marvel are merging in the end of Feburary. I've heard this

FG->   There's a major crossover series coming, but actually merging? Not
FG->to my knowledge.

FG->   Frank

They have been doing crossovers for at least 20
yrs...Superman/Spiderman, for starters...


---
 À SIG 3.0 [NR] À Press all the keys at once to continue...

 * SLMR 2.1a * A hen tomorrow is more valuable than an egg today.
--- Renegade v10-05 Exp
 * Origin: The Ferret Farm BBs -403-457-3396- (1:342/63)

Ä [18] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 22 of 143
 From : Brad Morgan                         1:342/63        .ÿò 19 .íâ 96 10:15
 To   : Christopher O'conor
 Subj : Foundation Again
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
CO->BW>Should you read the one(s) before it even
CO->BW>though they were written after or even though they take place before
CO->BW>should you read them after? (kinda like the Star Wars movies, even
CO->BW>though all six will be out one of these days you should still watch
CO->BW>parts 4, 5, and 6 first.)

CO->I've only read the trilogy, so I can't help.  But, for the record, Star
CO->Wars has NINE parts, not six.  (Three trilogies - one before "A New
CO->Hope", one after "Return of the Jedi")

CO->Opus

Why can't I find the other 6 books? Back when the earth was cooling,
when the initial Star Wars came out, I remember seeing all 9 books in
the bookstore, but I haven't been able to find the 1st or 3rd trilogy
since...I have checked books in print off and on during the years, but
still, no books...I'm starting to wonder if I was hallucinating way back
then...


---
 À SIG 3.0 [NR] À It'shardtobecreativewhenyouonlyhave62characterstoworkwith

 * SLMR 2.1a * "Is there any lawyers around?" <<Blaaam>> "Anymore?"
--- Renegade v10-05 Exp
 * Origin: The Ferret Farm BBs -403-457-3396- (1:342/63)

Ä [18] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 23 of 143
 From : David Johnston                      1:342/14        .óá 20 .íâ 96 00:44
 To   : Chris Ogniben
 Subj : Nuclear
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
-> Hey i never knew that i would meet someone else on here, that would
-> share the same opinion.  Yes the human race, apparently seems to be

I don't.  You misunderstood what I said.

-> share the same opinion.  Yes the human race, apparently seems to be
-> getting stupider, and weaker.  I think the human race is always week,

It's difficult at best to measure stupidity.  But do you really think
that we are significantly more stupid than say, the inhabitants of
Europe during the 9th century?

-> a human feel as if he was strong.  I think against any alien lifeform
-> that has a different type of body, would show that if they wanted to
-> take us, it would be easy for them, since we are a weak racfe.

If any race tried to take out humanity by relying on superior physical
strength alone, we'd clobber them.

--- PCBoard (R) v15.21/100
 * Origin: Freddy's Place - Edm. AB - 28.8K (403) 456-4241 (1:342/14)

Ä [18] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 24 of 143
 From : David Johnston                      1:342/14        .óá 20 .íâ 96 00:46
 To   : Christian Raven
 Subj : Re: Star Trek
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
-> DJ> That's really quite an idiotic statement.  Giving orders is not a
-> DJ> defining characteristic of masculinity.
->
-> really?  then what is?  femininty is just the opposite, and before
-> you go plundering into a losing argument, you should scan the
-> definition in your webster's... submissiveness, not agression, is one
-> of the "defining

Nonsense.  My grandmother gives orders like nobodies business, but that
doesn't make her a man, nor is she attempting to be one.  It's just what
Chiefs of Nursing at major hospitals do.  Not all men give orders.  In
fact most men don't.

--- PCBoard (R) v15.21/100
 * Origin: Freddy's Place - Edm. AB - 28.8K (403) 456-4241 (1:342/14)

Ä [18] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 25 of 143
 From : David Johnston                      1:342/14        .óá 20 .íâ 96 01:03
 To   : Frank Glover
 Subj : Re: Star Trek Comics
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
-> SM>  DC and Marvel are merging in the end of Feburary. I've heard
-> this
-> There's a major crossover series coming, but actually merging? Not
-> to my knowledge.

For one week, as part of the crossover, 12 issues will be printed under
the "Amalgam" imprint.  It will include "Bruce Wayne, Agent of Shield",
"Super-Soldier", "Spider-Boy", "JLX", and "Doctor Strangefate", along
with other concepts hybridised between the two companies.

--- PCBoard (R) v15.21/100
 * Origin: Freddy's Place - Edm. AB - 28.8K (403) 456-4241 (1:342/14)

Ä [18] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 26 of 143
 From : Kay Shapero                         1:102/524       .óá 20 .íâ 96 11:15
 To   : Christian Raven
 Subj : Re: Star Trek
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Jan 18 22:55>, Christian Raven (1:393/7@fido) wrote to David Johnston:

DJ> That's really quite an idiotic statement.  Giving orders is not a
DJ> defining characteristic of masculinity.

 CR>  really?  then what is?  femininty is just the opposite, and
 CR>before you go plundering into a losing argument, you should scan
 CR>the definition in your webster's... submissiveness, not
 CR>agression, is one of the "defining characteristics" as you so
 CR>well put it, of the feminine behavioral pattern.

So maybe they've stopped using the silly definitions to define real live people,
as opposed to theoreticaly abstracts?  Heck, I can give orders and I'm female
(!) and heterosexual (!!) and not even trying to be a man (!!!).  Wouldn't want
to, really - not that men are bad necessarily (I'm married to one), but I'm
perfectly happy with the sex I've got.

Of course if you think it takes agression (as opposed to assertion) to give
orders, you're going to have problems anyway.  Far better to be backed up by the
respect of those taking the orders than by raw force.  That way they're more
likely to be followed when something happens to the force. Also, you're more
likely to get accurate answers to your questions instead of whatever the other
party thinks you want to hear.

My problem with Voyager is not the captain (though I do find myself wishing
they'd found an actress that not only looked a bit like Katherine Hepburn, but
could ACT like her in movies like The African Queen).  It's the scriptwriting,
the Trecknobabble of Impressive Proportions, and the general "ah, who cares,
it's Science Fiction" attitude that leads to things like confusing the event
horizon of a black hole with some sort of energy shell you can poke cracks in.




--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [18] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 27 of 143
 From : Kay Shapero                         1:102/524       .óá 20 .íâ 96 22:00
 To   : Frank Glover
 Subj : Virtual Reality
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Jan 18 22:13>, Frank Glover (1:2613/477) wrote to Christian Raven:

 FG>   And more to your point is `Total Recall.' What indeed if
 FG>youcould submerge an old personality and set of memories under a
 FG>new one...and the new one upon learning of this, still seeks to
 FG>preserve his own identity? (If you saw the movie, the scene where
 FG>Arnie's character is pursuaded that all his experiences prior to,
 FG>and on Mars were the virtual experience he'd asked for [and even

And if you think that was strange, read the Philip K. Dick short story on which
it was (very loosely) based "We Can Remember It For You Wholesale".  As will
surprise nobody familiar with Dick, it's far weirder than the movie dared to
get. :->


... I took the road less travelled...And fell in a hole.

--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [18] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 28 of 143
 From : Kay Shapero                         1:102/524       .óá 20 .íâ 96 22:01
 To   : Glenn Shaheen
 Subj : Re: Star Trek
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Jan 17 14:26>, Glenn Shaheen (1:3600/7) wrote to Christian Raven:

 GS>for what
 GS>I've seen Vulcan is all the same climate)

Which I find very hard to believe - no matter how you tilt the axis, getting
every part of the planet to have exactly the same solar exposure every day is
impossible.  At best, you can point the axis perpendicular to the sun and
parallel to the orbit, in which case each point gets the same treatment as
everything else at its latitude, but the tropics are still going to get more
than the poles.  And the difference in incoming energy is going to have an
effect on the temperature at the ground, and that is going to create weather.
At any rotation - even if the thing is tidally locked with the sun so it doesn't
rotate with respect to it at ALL, you still get this effect.

Now it may well be all desert - all that requires is less water than Earth has,
and correspondingly less vegetation, but there's considerable difference here
between, say, the Sahara, the Gobi, and the Mojave, all deserts.

Of course it's a common error in a lot of SF - I recall with fondness the time
Poul Anderson made this point by having Chee Lan kvetch about her hotel room's
climate conditioning being set for the wrong part of her homeworld "They've
booked me into the northern continent and it's bloody cold!"

Ah well, I rather like the black Vulcan if for no other reason than it's about
time we had a race of aliens who didn't all look essentially alike, even to
outsiders.  Humans don't; why would anything else?


... Galileo held hostage - Day 33

--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [18] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 29 of 143
 From : Kay Shapero                         1:102/524       .óá 20 .íâ 96 22:03
 To   : Channon Lang
 Subj : Babylon 5
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Jan 15 14:37>, Channon Lang (1:130/809) wrote to Robert Siemborski:

 RS> If you liked that one, be on the lookout for what jms called the
 RS> "funniest scene to date on the series" in the first of the new block
 RS> of episodes. Something that Ivonova says in Sheriden's bedroom is
 RS> supposed to be really funny.  Take that for what you will.

 CL> Hmmm, now THAT could be interesting....

Especially if it's any better than "Either we had one hell of a hull breach last
night, or you snore."  :->


... "Who ARE you!!!" "I may or may not be Garibaldi. First, who are YOU?"

--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [18] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 30 of 143
 From : Chris Myers                         1:2613/313      .ÿò 19 .íâ 96 16:23
 To   : Star Hawk
 Subj : elfquest
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
WARP Graphics is the Pini's company that originated Elfquest.  I
followed them from issue #1 although I have not kept up.  Life is funny
that way.  I really enjoyed their work.

--- QScan/PCB v1.17b / 01-0406
 * Origin: Knight Moves - Rochester,NY 716-865-2106 (1:2613/313)

Ä [18] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 31 of 143
 From : Chris Myers                         1:2613/313      .ÿò 19 .íâ 96 18:29
 To   : Stephen Adams
 Subj : NOWHERE MAN
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Okay, I give up.  I (pardon me) have never heard of the show "Nowhere
Man" Is it on Fox or one of the other cable stations.  Everyone talks
about it so fondly, I'd like to take a look at it.

 SA>RS> SA>Personally, I hope the the producers DON'T change the

show

SA>RS> I didn't know they were planning on changing it.

SA>Hopefully, they aren't. What I was originally implying was that since
SA>the show is being shown on the fledgling UPN network, that there could
SA>come a time when UPN's execs decide that Nowhere Man needs to have
SA>bigger ratings in order to stay in the schedule.

SA>There are rumors flying around that Paramount might be considering
SA>scrapping ST:DS9 and throwing all of its resources into ST:Voyager.
SA>Why? In order to bolster the ratings of Voyager, which happens to be
SA>the keystone show for UPN. If Voyager stumbles, then it is likely that
SA>UPN would be on shaky ground. UPN may then try to stabilize itself with
SA>shows that appeal more to the mass-market audiences. I just hope that
SA>they don't try to turn Nowhere Man into one of those mass-market, no-
SA>brainer (IMHO) shows.

SA>If all of this speculation does indeed come true, then I'd rather see
SA>the writers and producers of Nowhere Man either conclude the series, or
SA>take it where they can continue on with the quality they've put out so
SA>far; either in syndication or, perhaps, another network such as WB.

SA>Later...

SA>Steve
SA>January 15, 1996   08:37 ET
SA>---
SA> * RM 1.3  * Eval Day 40 * Internet Email:  stephen.adams@bandit-bbs.com

SA>---  WC!/IM!/GE-PRO1.20!
SA> * Origin: Longbow BBS! Tampa, FL (813)961-3653 USR V.34+ DS (1:377/77)

---
 * OLX 2.1 TD * Backup not found: (A)bort (R)etry (P)anic


--- QScan/PCB v1.17b / 01-0406
 * Origin: Knight Moves - Rochester,NY 716-865-2106 (1:2613/313)

Ä [18] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 32 of 143
 From : Chris Myers                         1:2613/313      .ÿò 19 .íâ 96 18:29
 To   : Christian Raven
 Subj : Re: Star Trek
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
I don't think the problem with ST: Voyager is because the captain is a
woman or that there is a black vulcan with an Indian Commander.  I
think most of the problem is mediocre writing.  The story lines
have been weak and don't show much imagination.  Some of them have
seemed like rework jobs of the original series.  On the whole, I have to
say I like the characters and I especially like Kathryn Janeway.  I just
wish the writers would give her something more interesting to do rather
than walking the same old beaten paths.

CR>GS> EA>Star Trek,yes, in all its incarnations except Voyager. They

need to CR>GS> hir CR>GS> EA>some writers.

CR>GS>         VOYAGER?!?!!?! I think Deep Space 9 is the one who needs to get
CR>GS> some writers. Voyager is actually pretty good.

CR>  I must have some problems with my terminal, I almost thought you said "goo
CR>and "ST:Voyager" in the same sentence.  The captain is a woman, trying to be
CR>man.  Now if she were a lesbian (which... who knows?) I might be able to tak
CR>it.  But give me a break.. a black vulcan, an indian commander (whom I think
CR>should be captain, he's a decent actor, at least), and a female captain... w
CR>I must have missed the episode where Oprah Winfrey and Spock were involved i
CR>more than just a mind meld... or was it Guinan?  Anyway I'm just waiting for
CR>the episode where the chinese/japanese engineer guy discovers his
CR>homosexuality.  Give me a break.  I think UPN started another show which giv
CR>us some info on where Voyager is going.  Hint: Thomas Veil...
CR>                                                     ..c.raven
CR>--- CNet/3
CR> * Origin: The Bard's Tavern Denton, TX (817)243-5110 USR 28.8   (1:393/7)

---
 * OLX 2.1 TD * Press "+" to see another tagline.

--- QScan/PCB v1.17b / 01-0406
 * Origin: Knight Moves - Rochester,NY 716-865-2106 (1:2613/313)

Ä [18] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 33 of 143
 From : Tony Trujillo                       1:280/9         .óá 20 .íâ 96 16:00
 To   : Channon Lang
 Subj : Re: Tom Holt & PTerry
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE 1.11+

 MI>> I am reading "Who's Afraid of Beowulf?" now.
 TT>> I wish I could find my copy. It's around here somewhere but
 TT>> I can't seem to locate it.
 CL>  Now that was one book I really enjoyed....If I remember correctly, I
 CL>  did alot of giggling...

Have you ever read Holt's YE GODS!, FLYING DUTCH or EXPECTING SOMEONE
TALLER? I thought EST was a better attempt...or at least I
thought it was funnier than the other two. I've been meaning
to read more Holt but you can't hardly find his books in the
new books stores. So far the only two I've found locally
were FLYING DUTCH and EXPECTING SOMEONE TALLER.



... It's a cookbook! It's a cook...hey! That looks delicious!
--- Via Silver Xpress V4.02B03 SW01177
 * Origin: South of the River - Overland Park KS - (913)642-7907 V.* (1:280/9)

Ä [18] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 34 of 143
 From : Tony Trujillo                       1:280/9         .óá 20 .íâ 96 16:52
 To   : Judy Hayes
 Subj : Re: "Who" knew.
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE 1.11+

 JH>> to play the title role in the new "Doctor Who" movie.
 TT>> ...I'LL BELIEVE IT WHEN I SEE IT! :^)
 JH> Of course!  It *was* simply a rumor....I don't think I've seen it in an
 JH> "official" publication yet....not even Entertainment Weekly.<g>

I was talking to a friend of mine (who is a major WHO fan as
well) who said he's seen official word that the movie will be
produced for FOX...not sure when it's supposed to air but
I'm looking forward to it. We lost WHO here in Kansas City
about 6 years ago (even after being promised the show by out
local PBS station) and I'm itching to see more travels of
the good Doctor.

 JH> Now you know how Trek fans felt during all those
 JH> loooooong years between the demise of TOS and ST:TMP.

Yeah...but that was *just* Star Trek...this is DOCTOR
WHO we're talking about!!!! ;^)

 TT>> Here's hoping that the movie actually (excuse the pun)
 TT>> materializes this time.
 JH> Absolutely!  I, personally, can't wait.
 JH> Just hope they don't attempt to...er...Americanize it too much.

I would have preferred to see them give the show to a British
production company. I'm not sure who's going to produce
it...at one time I had heard Amblin Entertainment...now
it's anybody's guess.

 JH> ... "Don't mince words, Tony ... what do you *REALLY* think?"

Ok! I *hate* variable taglines! ;^)


... "What Doctor? Doctor Who?!"
--- Via Silver Xpress V4.02B03 SW01177
 * Origin: South of the River - Overland Park KS - (913)642-7907 V.* (1:280/9)

Ä [18] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 35 of 143
 From : Samantha Dobbs                      1:229/610       .åò 18 .íâ 96 22:20
 To   : Shawn Merrow
 Subj : Re: Space: Above & Beyond
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
I would love to talk about ALL or any of them!! If you want I have a e-mail
address... ac050@freenet.durham.org

I would also like to say that I have got email form James Morrison who plays
McQueen. He is a very nice man!

Sam...

--- CNet/3
 * Origin: The Neutral Zone...(1:229/610.0)

Ä [18] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 36 of 143
 From : Jerry Van Kooten                    2:280/901.37    .ÿò 19 .íâ 96 21:40
 To   : Otto Cordray
 Subj : The Guide and it's Incarnations...
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Hi Otto,

Quoting <Otto Cordray> to <Channon Lang> (18-Jan-96, 17:40:42)
Subject: <The Guide and it's Incarnations...>

 OC> The Hitchhiker's CD you spoke of...
 OC> Is it actually the radio shows or is it the LP version?

The CDs contain the original radio broadcasts, twelve in total. The LPs
were recorded separately, and have a slightly altered story line. And,
as I have never ever heard these LPs... who has got (tape) copies???

See you,
Jerry

--- Terminate 3.00/Pro
 * Origin: I'm only kidding, we're going to die after all... (2:280/901.37)

Ä [18] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 37 of 143
 From : Chip Griffin                        1:320/301       .ÿò 19 .íâ 96 19:11
 To   : Todd Sullivan
 Subj : Re: nuclear BS
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On 01/19/96 (@19:10:22) Todd Sullivan typed:

TS> Reactors use Uranium 238, which doesn't fission well; Weapons use U-235 and

Not quite right.  They don't all necessarily use the same stuff in the same
proportions.  The one I work at uses enriched U-235 pellets ...

de Chip [N1MIE] President of TRAUG         quarry@q.continuum.net


--- MacKennel 2.2.1
 * Origin: The Quarry: 860-889-6427 -- Amateur Radio & Mac User (1:320/301.0)

Ä [18] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 38 of 143
 From : Jerry Van Kooten                    2:280/901.37    .óá 20 .íâ 96 21:41
 To   : Damon Benson
 Subj : Question
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Hi Damon,

Quoting <Damon Benson> to <Mark Comer> (18-Jan-96, 00:43:49)
Subject: <Question>

 DB> Is it possilbe to send email to an internet address and if so, how would
 DB> I go about doing such a thing?

To send netmail:

  fieldname         you enter
  ---------         ---------
  To:               Jerry van Kooten
  Address:          2:280/901.37

To send e-mail:
  fieldname         you enter
  ---------         ---------
  To:               UUCP
  Address:          ... (find an 'Internet Gate' for your Fidonet zone 1)

  and on the first line of the message you type
  To: jvkooten@pi.net
  (including the word 'To: ')

Good luck.

See you,
Jerry

--- Terminate 3.00/Pro
 * Origin: There's an old droid saying: 001100101101001010001110 (2:280/901.37)

Ä [18] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 39 of 143
 From : Jerry Van Kooten                    2:280/901.37    .óá 20 .íâ 96 21:43
 To   : Darren Lovatt
 Subj : Red Dwarf / TNG crossover
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Hi Darren,

Quoting <Darren Lovatt> to <Jerry Van Kooten> (18-Jan-96, 06:40:02)
Subject: <Red Dwarf / TNG crossover>

JK >>  DL> REDTREK.ZIP     29K     Red Dwarf meets the next generation
JK >>  DL> SMEG_GEN.ARJ    25K     Dwarf Trek - The Smeggy Generation
JK >>  Is it possible to attach files this size to a netmail?
JK >>  Where is your BBS, Denmark? A bit expensive for me (from Holland).
 DL> No Sweden !

Same price to call from Holland :-)

 DL> Give me the address to attach to and I'll put them on hold for you

My address is 2:280/901.37

See you,
Jerry

--- Terminate 3.00/Pro
 * Origin: I thank you very much in anticipation! (2:280/901.37)

Ä [18] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 40 of 143
 From : Jerry Van Kooten                    2:280/901.37    .óá 20 .íâ 96 21:46
 To   : Phill Ash
 Subj : .ystertags...
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Hi Phill,

Quoting <Phill Ash> to <Ron Taylor> (18-Jan-96, 07:38:00)
Subject: <star wars holiday special>

Browsing through a lot, I mean a /lot/ of messages, I was pressing the
Delete key too quickly, when I say two dots on a capital O. That can
only mean one thing...

 PA>  þ Ùystertags v1.1 þ And this is what my friends all mean by Del Rio's
 PA> song

Yes! The BÙC... I know, wrong area, but could you please tell me what the
Ùystertags v1.1 is? Any other BÙC interests (tapes, maybe)?

See you,
Jerry
2:280/901.37

--- Terminate 3.00/Pro
 * Origin: rise to claim Saturn, ring and sky... (2:280/901.37)

Ä [18] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 41 of 143
 From : Jerry Van Kooten                    2:280/901.37    .óá 20 .íâ 96 21:52
 To   : Otto Cordray
 Subj : The Guide and it's Incarnations...
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Hi Otto,

Quoting <Jerry Van Kooten> to <Otto Cordray> (19-Jan-96, 21:40:50)
Subject: <The Guide and it's Incarnations...>

Oh, another one. Have you played the (text only) adventure game?
It's said Adams himself re-wrote some of the story line to make it
more interesting to play as a game.

See you,
Jerry

--- Terminate 3.00/Pro
 * Origin: for no clear reason the word 'yellow' springs to mind (2:280/901.37)

Ä [18] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 42 of 143
 From : Judy Hayes                          1:154/40        .cê 21 .íâ 96 17:34
 To   : Bianca Wesslak
 Subj : Re: "Who" knew.
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

->See you in the next life Bianca. We'll laugh & discuss "Who" knew.

 BW> From a woman with an overactive imagination.

Not overactive...just hopeful. <g>

 JH> Just a note picked up from Jay Badenhoop's "Mr. Data's Data" -
 JH> "Actor Paul McGann (Alien 3, The Three Musketeers) has just been
 JH> signed to play the title role in the new "Doctor Who" movie.
 BW> yeah I heard about the new doctor who movie, this is where they are
 BW> gonna introduce the third doctor.  THe bbc and fox and a couple of
 BW> other people are putting it together.   Do you know when it will be
 BW> out perhaps?

Unfortunately, the above info is all that I have at this point.  I'll
post if I get anything else.

      --Quoshara


... Do what you will with this tagline, just don't bother me about it!
---
 * Origin: Anonymous BBS -=- Non plus Ultra -=- 414-251-2580 (1:154/40)

Ä [18] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 43 of 143
 From : Otto Cordray                        1:106/1393      .cê 21 .íâ 96 21:53
 To   : Jerry Van Kooten
 Subj : The Guide and it's Incarnations...
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 JVK> The CDs contain the original radio broadcasts, twelve in total. The LPs
 JVK> were recorded separately, and have a slightly altered story line. And,
 JVK> as I have never ever heard these LPs... who has got (tape) copies???

I've never heard the LPs. The big difference (so I'm told) is that lots of
the music (Pink Floyd, etc. which had been used either totally without
permission or without authorization for sale of copies of the broadcasts)
was replaced with other stuff. I used to see copies of them in non-chain
record stores occasionally, though usually too overpriced (at least for
my budget.)

I'm more interested in the radio broadcasts. I caught most of them back in
1987 (the NPR station at Texas A&M played them) but I've misplaced the tapes
that I made.

Otto


--- Maximus/2 3.01
 * Origin: The Round Table, BBS of Gulf Coast Mensa * 922-1393 (1:106/1393)

Ä [18] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 44 of 143
 From : Rod Mammitzsch                      1:250/1066      .òp 02 .íâ 96 23:38
 To   : Frank Swarbrick
 Subj : canadian stuff
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

FS>  JR>         Im not sure where Forever Knight is based.  Does anyone
FS> know if
FS>  JR> it is Canadian or not?
FS>
FS>  TS> Yes it is; it's based and set in Calgary, Alberta.
FS>
FS> Yipes!  Toronto, Ontario.

        YIPES IS RIGHT!  If it was then I would never have worked on the show!
After all isn't the CN tower in the opening credits!

--- Xenolink 1.97
 * Origin: The Phantasmagoria - Toronto, Canada, 416-231-9392 (1:250/1066)

Ä [18] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 45 of 143
 From : Rod Mammitzsch                      1:250/1066      .cê 14 .íâ 96 21:14
 To   : Aaron Turon
 Subj : Do u like Starek?
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

MH>  AT> Does ANYONE out there like Star Trek?
MH>  AT> Please respond!

        Hmmm.  I enjoy watching it...but I dislike the show.  How is that?  Well
it has the POTENTIAL to be a good programme..but somehow they screw it up.  How
is that possible?I don't know.  I think there are better shows out there.
Doctor Who reigns supreme.  Babylon 5 currently rules the airwave  WHile Space
above and Beyond has possibilities.  Trek is Trek and will always be just
Trek...its like a hamburger.  Its good but not good enough..."it ain't no
steak".

--- Xenolink 1.98
 * Origin: The Phantasmagoria - Horror, SF & Fantasy since 1987 (1:250/1066)

Ä [18] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 46 of 143
 From : Phill Ash                           1:275/160       .cê 21 .íâ 96 10:40
 To   : David Johnston
 Subj : Nuclear
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE 1.11+

 -> DJ> Cancer isn't a mutation.  It's a replication error.
 ->       Isn't that sort of like saying "it's not a car, it's a Buick" ?

 DJ> A "mutation" is a genetic change which is passed down to one's
 DJ> offspring.  While in a sense cancer is a mutation on the cellular
 DJ> level, it is not a mutation of the human organism as a whole.

        You don't get it, do you?
        Cancer *IS* being passed from generation to generation!
                (well, not in the strictest sense, but researchers are
                uncovering genes which are common to sufferers of
                particular types of cancer exclusively)



Your pal:  PhlAsh
... One night when years had passed, the sky shook from a fiery blast
---
 * Ùystertags v1.1 *
~~~ ReneWave v1.01 [NR]
--- Smile :)
 * Origin: * The Beast's Lair * (804)498-3070 * Va Beach VA * (1:275/160)

Ä [18] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 47 of 143
 From : Christian Raven                     1:393/7         .îí 22 .íâ 96 01:35
 To   : Kay Shapero
 Subj : Re: Star Trek
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

KS> So maybe they've stopped using the silly definitions to define real  live
KS> people, as opposed to theoreticaly abstracts?  Heck, I can give  orders
KS> and I'm female (!) and heterosexual (!!) and not even trying to be a  man
KS> (!!!).  Wouldn't want to, really - not that men are bad necessarily  (I'm
KS> married to one), but I'm perfectly happy with the sex I've got.

  perhaps they have... and perhaps woman as a general species are becoming more
and more independant and assertive as they evolve.  my entire argument is based
on the fact that throughout history, probably almost to the beginning of man (no
matter what your religion), woman have been child-bearers.  now, i'm not trying
to be sexist (although reading my last message i can understand how you might
feel that way), but that's the way it was.  in fact, it wasn't until quite
recently that women began to take on some of the roles of their male
counterparts.  so the way i see it, you can't destroy that much evolved instinct
in just a few decades... most likely, it will take quite a long time.

KS> Of course if you think it takes agression (as opposed to assertion) to
KS> give orders, you're going to have problems anyway.  Far better to be
KS> backed  up by the respect of those taking the orders than by raw force.
KS> That  way they're more likely to be followed when something happens to the
KS>  force. Also, you're more likely to get accurate answers to your questions
KS>  instead of whatever the other party thinks you want to hear.

KS> My problem with Voyager is not the captain (though I do find myself
KS> wishing  they'd found an actress that not only looked a bit like Katherine
KS> Hepburn,  but could ACT like her in movies like The African Queen).  It's
KS> the  scriptwriting, the Trecknobabble of Impressive Proportions, and the
KS> general "ah, who cares, it's Science Fiction" attitude that leads to
KS> things  like confusing the event horizon of a black hole with some sort of
KS> energy  shell you can poke cracks in.


  i agree, assertiveness is far superior to raw agression in the long term.
however, in order to gain the respect of your crew so that they will trust your
assertations, you must show some degree of fearlessness, true compassion, and
strong will.

  i agree with your last paragraph, and feel that with all the newness of an
unexplored quadrant, couldnt they come up with something better?  i did like the
most recent episode featuring the silver-alloy robots, however.
                                                 ..c.raven..
--- CNet/3
 * Origin: The Bard's Tavern Denton, TX (817)243-5110 USR 28.8   (1:393/7)

Ä [18] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 48 of 143
 From : Christian Raven                     1:393/7         .îí 22 .íâ 96 01:43
 To   : Todd Sullivan
 Subj : Re: Star Trek Sexism
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On Sun 21-Jan-1996  6:28p, Todd Sullivan wrote:

TS> While substituting for Q, Christian Raven took extreme delight in saying
TS> to David Johnston, "You'll do anything I say?"  David quailed when the
TS> words "destroy all feminsts!" were uttered.

TS>  DJ>> That's really quite an idiotic statement.  Giving orders is not a
TS>  DJ>> defining characteristic of masculinity.

TS>  CR>   really?  then what is?  femininty is just the opposite, and before
TS>  CR> you go plundering into a losing argument, you should scan the
TS>  CR> definition in your webster's... submissiveness, not agression, is one
TS>  CR> of the "defining characteristics" as you so well put it, of the
TS>  CR> feminine behavioral pattern.

TS> Barefoot, pregnant and in the kitchen, eh?  And just what century do you
TS> think you're living in?

TS> You might like that kind of woman, but most children want everything their
TS> way, too.  I prefer a partner, not a slave.

  yes... alot of people (especially women) would like to change centuries of
evolution in just a few decades, but it's not so easy.  my personal work as a
tatoo artist has proven to me that the female sex is striving to the extreme to
become male.  sometimes i laugh... but i always give them their tat's.  i don't
expect to change anything, mr. sullivan, but i will propose to you this: coming
soon we are going to see a change.  i see it happening every day.  things are
losing their fast-paced "lets all be men" attitude, and women are beginning to
realize what they really want (ooooh.. i can just hear the frantic pounding of
girls at keyboards everywhere, heh heh).. i'll leave it at that, so as not to
stray too far off the Trek subject.
                                                 ..c.raven..


TS> ... "You are not ready for immortality." --Kosh

TS> -*- ASTG 1.9

TS> --- Spot 1.3a Unregistered
TS>  * Origin: Todd's Spot in the Continuum (1:202/720.3)

--- CNet/3
 * Origin: The Bard's Tavern Denton, TX (817)243-5110 USR 28.8   (1:393/7)

Ä [18] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 49 of 143
 From : Channon Lang                        1:130/809       .cê 21 .íâ 96 15:25
 To   : Otto Cordray
 Subj : Re: The Guide and it's Incarnations...
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE 1.11+
From a dark bottomless pit,Otto Cordray screamed up to Channon Lang about The
Guide and it's Incarnations.....

 OC> The Hitchhiker's CD you spoke of...

 OC> Is it actually the radio shows or is it the LP version?

 I was under the impression it was the radio shows....but I'll check with
 my friend to find out....he's long distance now, so it might take a little
 bit.

 Channon


... NEW ORLEANS WOMAN INFECTED BY ALIEN VIRUS IN CAT FOOD!!!
--- MachoEcho 0.5ñ
 * Origin: The State of Confusion * Arlington Tx * 817-274-1920 * (1:130/809)

Ä [18] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 50 of 143
 From : Channon Lang                        1:130/809       .cê 21 .íâ 96 15:27
 To   : Robert Siemborski
 Subj : Babylon 5's sex scenes
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE 1.11+
From a dark bottomless pit,Robert Siemborski screamed up to Channon Lang about
Star Trek..

 > RS> If you liked that one, be on the lookout for what jms called the
 > RS> "funniest scene to date on the series" in the first of the new block
 > RS> of episodes. Something that Ivonova says in Sheriden's bedroom is
 > RS> supposed to be really funny.  Take that for what you will.
 >
 > Hmmm, now THAT could be interesting....

 RS> I think that was the point.

 Well, I know this much....I'm tired of reruns!!!!

 When are they gonna do something new?

 Channon



... What do you mean my Birth Certificate expired!?
--- MachoEcho 0.5ñ
 * Origin: The State of Confusion * Arlington Tx * 817-274-1920 * (1:130/809)

Ä [18] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 51 of 143
 From : Channon Lang                        1:130/809       .cê 21 .íâ 96 15:30
 To   : Chris Ogniben
 Subj : Re: X-files
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE 1.11+
From a dark bottomless pit,Chris Ogniben screamed up to Channon Lang about
X-files..

 CO>
 CO> Yeah i seen that x file episode with the killer roaches.  It was a
 CO> good episode.  But, if your a person that can't live with bugs.  Then
 CO> it would be better off not to watch it.  Of course those people that
 CO> are afraid of bugs, are pussies.  But, since bugs can't really hurt

 Actually, that's not really a fair assumption....Especially if you've
 EVER lived in the tropics. They don't really scare me so much as just
 plain make my skin crawl.

  CO> you, other than the ones that bite you and carry diseases, that bugs
 CO> are not that bad.  Of course if i see on around my room, i would
 CO> probably kill it.  But, back to talking about the x file episode.  I
 CO> have to admit, i thought at first that Mulder was crazzy to think that
 CO> the aliens were sending these small robotic bugs to the planet earth
 CO> as a robot to observe what goes on, on the earth.  But, does anyone
 CO> know if that was really true, or that Mulder was wrong about that.
 CO> Unless there was a totally new reason that these bugs were killing
 CO> people.  I just like to discuss this further with anyone that replies
 CO> to this.


 I don't know the answer to that, since everyone I know, turned that episode
 off....

 Channon


... If it moves, it must belong to the cat ...
--- MachoEcho 0.5ñ
 * Origin: The State of Confusion * Arlington Tx * 817-274-1920 * (1:130/809)

Ä [18] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 52 of 143
 From : Channon Lang                        1:130/809       .cê 21 .íâ 96 16:01
 To   : Glenn Shaheen
 Subj : Re: Star Trek
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE 1.11+
From a dark bottomless pit,Glenn Shaheen screamed up to Christian Raven about
Star Trek..

 >  I must have some problems with my terminal, I almost thought you said
 >"good" and "ST:Voyager" in the same sentence.
 GS> At least every episode isn't a comedy like some ST series...
 GS> Ok, maybe there are some problems (the black Vulcan, since for
 GS> what I've seen Vulcan is all the same climate) but there have been more
 GS> good episodes than bad.

 Black Vulcans are nothing new...look for them in the movie IN SEARCH FOR
 SPOCK......

 Channon


... KANSAS CITY BOY ADOPTED BY BIGFOOT FAMILY!!!
--- MachoEcho 0.5ñ
 * Origin: The State of Confusion * Arlington Tx * 817-274-1920 * (1:130/809)

Ä [18] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 53 of 143
 From : Chris Baugh                         1:105/290.5     .ÿò 19 .íâ 96 20:02
 To   : All
 Subj : nuclear energy echo?
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
I'm curious if there's an echo dedicated to discussion of nuclear
energy and its alleged risks.  If there isn't such an echo, maybe
an sf fan could start a NUCLEAR_RISK echo - there seems to be plenty
of interest in the science, not just the fiction, of this topic.

--- PPoint 1.98
 * Origin: a warehouse full of messages (1:105/290.5)

Ä [18] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 54 of 143
 From : Chris Baugh                         1:105/290.5     .cê 21 .íâ 96 20:14
 To   : Nicolai Shapero
 Subj : LA water
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 NS> Los Angeles (where I'm living right now) is a sub-desert
 NS> area. Without the aqueducts, we don't have enough water for
 NS> the eighteen million people that live in this area. No high
 NS> tech, no water, no people.

I grew up in the LA area and have done fairly extensive research on
the history of its water supply, including the LA conspiracy to
fraudulently seize the Owens Valley water supply, and the
preparations of the Arizona Navy to defend their own water.  I have
not come across any references to the aquaduct requiring electrical
pumping, but I have seen references to its being a gravity feed
system.  If you could point out a way I could go directly to the
source for information about the use of electricity in the aquaduct,
I'd enjoy learning that information.

--- PPoint 1.98
 * Origin: a warehouse full of messages (1:105/290.5)

Ä [18] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 55 of 143
 From : Chris Myers                         1:2613/313      .cê 21 .íâ 96 10:44
 To   : Christian Raven
 Subj : Re: Star Trek
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

CR>DJ> -> I must have some problems with my terminal, I almost thought you said
CR>DJ> -> "good" and "ST:Voyager" in the same sentence.  The captain is a
CR>DJ> -> woman, trying to be a man.  Now if she were a lesbian (which... who
CR>DJ> -> knows?) I might be able to take

CR>DJ> That's really quite an idiotic statement.  Giving orders is not a
CR>DJ> defining characteristic of masculinity.

CR>  really?  then what is?  femininty is just the opposite, and before you go
CR>plundering into a losing argument, you should scan the definition in your
CR>webster's... submissiveness, not agression, is one of the "defining
CR>characteristics" as you so well put it, of the feminine behavioral pattern.
CR>                                                  ..c.raven..
CR>--- CNet/3
CR> * Origin: The Bard's Tavern Denton, TX (817)243-5110 USR 28.8   (1:393/7)

No one, either male or female can be stereotyped into Webster's
definitions of masculine and feminine.  Both men and women can and do
display characteristics that one would define for members of the
opposite sex from Webster's.  In this day and age, and I hope in the
23rd century that both men and women can feel liberated enough to be
themselves.  It is the kind of narrowmindedness displayed by Webster's
definitions that continues the misunderstandings between the sexes.

Today's woman can't afford to be weak and submissive and have a decent
career and family, too.  You can't expect a woman of the 23rd century to
be either.  Janeway is a strong woman, yet caring and
compassionate--fine human qualities, I would say.
---
 * OLX 2.1 TD * Knightmoves - Rochester, NY
 * KMail 3.10m Knight Moves

--- QScan/PCB v1.17b / 01-0406
 * Origin: Knight Moves - Rochester,NY 716-865-2106 (1:2613/313)

Ä [18] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 56 of 143
 From : Dean Sweatman                       1:396/1030      .îí 22 .íâ 96 07:51
 To   : Number Six
 Subj : Of interest to human (and
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12  93-0696
 * Originally By: Palewood@aol.com
 * Originally To: Dean Sweatman
 * Originally Re: Of interest to human (and
 * Original Date: 01-21-96  20:55
 * Original Area: PRIVATEInter
 * Forwarded by : Blue Wave/DOS v2.20

From: Palewood@aol.com
To: dean.sweatman@btower.com
Date: Sun, 21 Jan 1996 20:55:50 -0500
Subject: Of interest to human (and other!) beings throughout the New Orleans ar
ea

From: WYTCHE WAY PRODUCTIONS
          Post Office Box 2816
          Gulfport, MS 39505-2816
          Palewood@aol.com


To:     Dean Sweatman
         dean.sweatman@btower.com

Having found your resource on New Orleans fandom outlets while "surfing", I'd
like to share the following information with you that might be of interest to
folk who read your excellent and informative pages. Indeed, the event
described below would scarcely take place without the help of numerous
individuals and fan groups in the New Orleans area--so that, although the
convention takes place in Biloxi, it owes much to New Orleans.

COASTCON is Mississippi's oldest annual festival for science fiction and
fantasy fans from throughout the South--indeed, throughout the country!--and
the largest science fiction convention in the Gulf Coast area, drawing over
1500 people yearly. There's a little something offered for everyone, from
Trekkers to vampires, elves to wookies, aficionados of good books or bad
movies. Designated "Mississippi's Official State Science Fiction Convention"
by proclamation of the state governor in 1989, COASTCON is now gearing up for
its 19th annual event, to be held March 22nd-24th, 1996, at
the Gulf Coast Coliseum and Convention Center in Biloxi.

The convention is sponsored by COASTCON Inc., a nonprofit literary
organization established to promote science fiction, fantasy, and related
literary genres in any form, including written and visual arts, dramatic arts
and interactive fiction. As its major promotional effort, the annual "con"
also actively supports worthwhile causes such as the South Mississippi AIDS
Task Force (to which COASTCON is the largest contributor). This year, the
organization will also be working with the Mississippi Library Commission's
Braille and Talking Book program, which helps to reach the visually-impaired,
supplying them with books in a form they can use.

As Publicist for this year's convention, I cordially invite you to contact me
for further information about COASTCON, its guests and its activities.

For COASTCON XIX,

Niels W. Erickson,
Wytche Way Productions
Palewood@aol.com


COASTCON XIX  -  March 22nd-24th,
1996--------------------------------------------------

Mississippi Gulf Coast Coliseum & Convention Center, West Beach Blvd. (US
Hwy. 90), Biloxi, MS

Guests:
Special Media Guest: GARY GRAHAM  ("Matthew Sikes")  of FOX's "Alien Nation"
Author Guest of Honor: ELIZABETH MOON ("The Deed of Paksenarrion", "Surrender
None", "Liar's Oath", "Winning Colors", "Lunar Activity",  "Planet Pirates");
Artist GoH: TONY DiTERLIZZI (TSR's "Planescape" series, White Wolf's
"Apocalypse");
Gaming GoH: designer TIM BEACH (Wizards of the Coast, TSR);
Fan GoH: SAMANTHA "SAM" STEEBER, of WolfCon;
Author/Game Designer MICHAEL A. STACKPOLE ("BattleTech" game and novels,
including "The Warriors" trilogy, "The Blood of Kerensky" trilogy, and
others; "Once a
Hero", "Dementia");
Author/Scriptwriter  MICHAEL REAVES ("Batman: The Animated Series", "The
Flash", "Star Trek: The Next Generation", Disney's "Gargoyles" and other
programs; "The Shattered World", "Darkworld Detective", "Street Magic");
Editor TOM DUPREE (Senior Editor, Bantam Books);
Artist RUTH THOMPSON ("Magic: The Gathering", "Shadow Fist", numerous GURPS
titles);
Artist L.A. WILLIAMS ("Magic: The Gathering", "Shadow Fist", "Apocalypse");
Author R.A. SALVATORE ("The Crystal Shard", "Halfling's Gem", "The Legacy");
Game Designer COLIN McCOMB (TSR's "Planescape", "Birthright");
Editor JANICE SELLERS (Chaosium)

Features: Art Show & Auction; Charity Auction (benefiting South Mississippi
AIDS Task Force); Costume Contest (with your "Thriller Theatre" hostess,
MARGALI); Dances (Friday and Saturday night); Dealers Room; 24-hour Gaming
(including Miniatures, Tournament & Open Gaming, Computer Gaming, Live-Action
Role-Playing); Movie Room; 24-hour Programming, including Panels,
Presentations
and Contests; Talent Show; 24-hour Video Rooms; Writing Contest.

Rates: $25.00 until March 1, 1996; $30.00 after March 1st and at the door.
Send check or money order to COASTCON XIX Pre-Registration, c/o COASTCON,
P.O. Box 1423, Biloxi, MS 39533-1423.

Host Hotel: The Broadwater Beach Resort East, 2060 Beach Blvd. (US Hwy. 90),
Biloxi, MS 39531; for Reservations, call: 1-800-647-3964 or 1-601-388-7000.
$75/night, 4/rm. occupancy. (Remember to mention COASTCON when registering!)
(You can also e-mail the hotel via "broadwater@southwind.com", and check
their Web-page at "http://www.broadwater.com/")

For further information, contact: COASTCON XIX, Post Office Box 1423, Biloxi,
MS  39533-1423.
Voice Mailbox: (601) 432-5217
E-mail: CoastCon@aol.com (also recommended: sotmesc@datasync.com; list "CCON"
in subject line)
And drop by the Web-site at "http://www.datasync.com/~sotmesc/ccon.html"
(also recommended: "Jimmy's CoastCon Page" at
"http://www.datasync.com/~nexus/conpage.html")

[This information courtesy of the fannish folk at Wytche Way Productions. You
can write US for COASTCON information too--we're handling publicity--or just
to say "hi!" MARGALI and company are at "Palewood@aol.com".  -  1/21/96]


... I don't necessarily agree with everything I say.

___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20 [NR]

--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12
 * Origin: Black Tower BBS!  (1:396/1030.0)

Ä [18] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 57 of 143
 From : Channon Lang                        1:130/809       .îí 22 .íâ 96 03:05
 To   : Chris Ogniben
 Subj : Re: Good Ole Riker...
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE 1.11+
From a dark bottomless pit,Chris Ogniben screamed up to Channon Lang about Good
Ole Riker.....

 CO> Hold on, please tell me this again.  You said something to basic
 CO> appearces made by Jonathan Frakes, who is Wil Riker on STTNG.
 CO> Appearing with his wife on a show.  The only show that i can remmber
 CO> seeing them in, was whatever you mentioned.

  Ummm, I'm not real sure. I've already deleted my other mail packets, so
  I can't even go back and look. I think I was saying something about his
  voice on gargoyles...or was it that we were talking about Deadly Games?
  Oh I know, I think I said something about wondering when Leonard Nimoy
  was gonna show up on that show. I accidentally got DG and LC mixed up. JF
  and his wife were on L&C...not DG.

  Channon


... IBM: The stupidity goes in before the name goes on.
--- MachoEcho 0.5ñ
 * Origin: The State of Confusion * Arlington Tx * 817-274-1920 * (1:130/809)

Ä [18] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 58 of 143
 From : Channon Lang                        1:130/809       .îí 22 .íâ 96 03:05
 To   : Nicolai Shapero
 Subj : Re: Nuclear
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE 1.11+
From a dark bottomless pit,Nicolai Shapero screamed up to All about Nuclear..

 NS> I think that enough has been said on this topic -- everyone has had
 NS> their say, and people are beginning to repeat themselves.  SO...let's
 NS> declare this one "off topic" for ninety days (officially, that is, it
 NS> was in fact off topic from the start) and go on to more interesting
 NS> things...

 THANK YOU!!!!!!

 I came in on the middle of the conversation and was trying to figure out
 HOW it tied into the topic. Now I understand, it wasn't! Also, I was getting
 sick of seeing the argument.

 Channon



... I was raised by psychopathic werewolves.
--- MachoEcho 0.5ñ
 * Origin: The State of Confusion * Arlington Tx * 817-274-1920 * (1:130/809)

Ä [18] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 59 of 143
 From : Channon Lang                        1:130/809       .îí 22 .íâ 96 03:05
 To   : Chris Ogniben
 Subj : Re: SLIDERS/ANY NEWS?
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE 1.11+
From a dark bottomless pit,Chris Ogniben screamed up to Emilio Ares about
SLIDERS/ANY NEWS?..

 CO>
 CO> Excuse me, are you guys fans of Strange Luck, and seen all the new
 CO> episodes.  If i were FOX, i would air Sliders on Thursday night at 8
 CO> pm.  Since there really isn't anything else to watch on thursday
 CO> night, other than a thursday night prime movie, on HBO, at 9 pm.  This
 CO> way, Voyager is on monday.  Tuesday is Deadly Games, and Wednsday is
 CO> SeaQuest, Thursday Sliders and Friday's Strange Luck and X files.  ANd
 CO> i am a big fan of the show strange luck, and looking to talk about
 CO> some of the past episodes with anyone else who is a fan of it.  And i
 CO> don't want FOX to get rid of Strange Luck, which is as good as X-Files,
 CO> to put in Sliders.  If they do that, i would be very angry at all the
 CO> slider fans out there.

 Hey! Now that's a great idea!....Let's nominate you for FOX program manager!

 Channon


... People didn't hit you over the head with farmhouses back home. (WA)
--- MachoEcho 0.5ñ
 * Origin: The State of Confusion * Arlington Tx * 817-274-1920 * (1:130/809)

Ä [18] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 60 of 143
 From : Channon Lang                        1:130/809       .îí 22 .íâ 96 03:05
 To   : Chris Ogniben
 Subj : Re: Star Trek
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE 1.11+
From a dark bottomless pit,Chris Ogniben screamed up to Channon Lang about Star
Trek..

 CO>
 CO> which episode was this, of TREK or Babylon 5, that had the aliens
 CO> engaged in this sex scene that made you laugh that you just stated
 CO> there.

 Well, you see, I'm a newbie when it comes to B5, so I don't know how to
 answer your question. I've only seen that particular episode once, so I'm
 really not much help. I'm sure someone around here knows which one I was
 talking about...

 Channon


... I tried being reasonable once.  I didn't like it!
--- MachoEcho 0.5ñ
 * Origin: The State of Confusion * Arlington Tx * 817-274-1920 * (1:130/809)

Ä [18] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 61 of 143
 From : David Little                        1:106/7315      .óá 20 .íâ 96 22:58
 To   : Ron Taylor
 Subj : star wars holiday special
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
-=< Ron used the Jedi Mind Trick on me! >=-

 RT> Does anybody out there have a tape of THE STAR WARS HOLIDAY
 RT> SPECIAL??????????? I really want to see it cause it has the first
 RT> apperance of everyones favorite interplanetary assain !!!!!!!!!BOBA
 RT> FETT !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 RT> PLEASE respond if you can help.
 RT> thanx

        Since there was no official release on to video, the only place you
can get it is probably a bootleg copy at a con somewhere. I'd shy away from it
if I were you...it's not a good show!

                                        -=The DoLittle 8-)=-


... "Just a sec, Brain, I think I'm finally getting somewhere!" -- Pinky

--- FreeMail & Blue Wave/DOS v2.21
 * Origin: The Wizard's Realm ** (713) 946-7315 ** (1:106/7315)

Ä [18] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 62 of 143
 From : David Little                        1:106/7315      .óá 20 .íâ 96 23:00
 To   : Christopher O'Conor
 Subj : Star Wars Trilogy of Trilogies
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
-=< Christopher used the Jedi Mind Trick on me! >=-

 BW>Should you read the one(s) before it even
 BW>though they were written after or even though they take place before
 BW>should you read them after? (kinda like the Star Wars movies, even
 BW>though all six will be out one of these days you should still watch
 BW>parts 4, 5, and 6 first.)

 CO> I've only read the trilogy, so I can't help.  But, for the record,
 CO> Star Wars has NINE parts, not six.  (Three trilogies - one before "A
 CO> New Hope", one after "Return of the Jedi")

        Actually, Lucas has restated there's only 6 parts to the trilogy. He
explains in an interview in the THX remastered release.

                                        -=The DoLittle 8-)=-


... Oxymoron: Press Release.

--- FreeMail & Blue Wave/DOS v2.21
 * Origin: The Wizard's Realm ** (713) 946-7315 ** (1:106/7315)

Ä [18] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 63 of 143
 From : ROBERT LIDGREN                      1:134/10        .cê 21 .íâ 96 14:48
 To   : FRANK SWARBRICK
 Subj : AMERICAN GOTHIC
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
-> !!  I just finished watching the most recent episode of American
-> Gothic, and WOW! do I like this show!  Up to this point it's been
-> good, interesting, creepy, etc. but tonight's episode (called
-> "Inhumanitas") was awesome.  For one thing, it was wonderful to see
-> Sheriff Buck actually scared.  He may be the star, but you just love
-> to see him lose.

That was a FIRST wasn't it?  This improves the dynamics of the show
because antagonists who simply never show any fear or insecurities don't
wash all that well.  When Sheriff Buck realized that things were getting
a bit farther out of his control than he had anticipated things really
started to heat up in that episode.

American Gothic
Nowhere Man
Strange Luck

I wonder which ones will survive the on-going "shake-down?"
--- PCBoard 15.2
 * Origin: 32 lines 40 Gig BBS, Realtime InterNet SLIP (403)299-9900 (1:134/10)

Ä [18] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 64 of 143
 From : ROBERT LIDGREN                      1:134/10        .cê 21 .íâ 96 14:26
 To   : ALL
 Subj : NOWHERE MAN
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
A simple request this time re:  NOWHERE MAN -->

The broadcast time and day seem to have changed.  I used to pick it up
on my feed from Spokane, Washington Saturday nights.  Can anyone tell me
where they have moved the show now.  It was reempted and then went off
the Sat. sched.

I'm in Canada but get most of the U.S. networks from Spokane via cable.

Thanks for your help!
--- PCBoard 15.2
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Ä [18] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 65 of 143
 From : ROBERT LIDGREN                      1:134/10        .cê 21 .íâ 96 14:38
 To   : ALL
 Subj : NOWHERE/X-FILES
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Some time ago there was talk of a cross-over episode between X-Files and
Picket Fences.  I was wondering, what do you think about a link
somehwere along the line between X-Files and Nowhere Man?

Now Nowhere Man is certainly not YET ain the same "league" as X-Files
but I wonder if anyone else has pondered the similarities.  Who knows,
maybe the conspirators in Nowhere Man are simply a less-competent
off-shoot of the people who tend to make Mulder's and Scully's lives
"interesting" (sort of a "second string!")

People disappear with little or no explanation in both series.
The mood of paranoia is common.
For some reason, neither set of protagonists are killed off despite
numerous opportunities to do so.
The inclusion of Paranormal phenomenon is present in both series.
Tom Veil is more of a "loner" but does get aid from people from time to
time - perhaps the Dean Stockwell character might be brought in more
often.

It's just a thought but I see some POTENTIAL for a cross-over episode
even though I realize these things happen pretty rarely and the
producers and networks would have to have some good reason for taking
such a chance.

Cheers,

-Rob
--- PCBoard 15.2
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Ä [18] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 66 of 143
 From : David Little                        1:106/7315      .cê 21 .íâ 96 14:13
 To   : Brad Morgan
 Subj : Foundation Again
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
-=< Brad used the Jedi Mind Trick on me! >=-

 CO->BW>Should you read the one(s) before it even
 CO->BW>though they were written after or even though they take place before
 CO->BW>should you read them after? (kinda like the Star Wars movies, even
 CO->BW>though all six will be out one of these days you should still watch
 CO->BW>parts 4, 5, and 6 first.)
 CO->I've only read the trilogy, so I can't help.  But, for the record, Star
 CO->Wars has NINE parts, not six.  (Three trilogies - one before "A New
 CO->Hope", one after "Return of the Jedi")

 BM> Why can't I find the other 6 books? Back when the earth was cooling,
 BM> when the initial Star Wars came out, I remember seeing all 9 books in
 BM> the bookstore, but I haven't been able to find the 1st or 3rd trilogy
 BM> since...I have checked books in print off and on during the years, but
 BM> still, no books...I'm starting to wonder if I was hallucinating way
 BM> back then...

        That's because the 1st trilogy has not even been written and there
is no 3rd trilogy.

                                        -=The DoLittle 8-)=-


... STAR WARS FIDONET ECHO...Star Wars Prequels 1998, 2000, 2002

--- FreeMail & Blue Wave/DOS v2.21
 * Origin: The Wizard's Realm ** (713) 946-7315 ** (1:106/7315)

Ä [18] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 67 of 143
 From : Frank Glover                        1:2613/477      .cê 21 .íâ 96 23:26
 To   : Channon Lang
 Subj : Re: Star Trek
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

CL>   Besides if she's a lesbian....that might come as a real surprise to
CL>  her
CL>   BOYFRIEND she left back on Earth, right?

   Maybe I missed something all along, but isn't Captain Janeway actually
married to that guy?

   Frank


--- QuickBBS 2.80 GoldBase (Zeta-1)
 * Origin: The Matrix Data Bank BBS, Rochester, Ny (1:2613/477)

Ä [18] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 68 of 143
 From : Kay Shapero                         1:102/524       .cê 21 .íâ 96 09:38
 To   : Christian Raven
 Subj : Charles Darwin
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Jan 19 23:11>, Christian Raven (1:393/7@fido) wrote to Frank Glover:

 CR>consider the actual meaning that Evolution has... charles darwin
 CR>would lead us to believe that we are ourselves machines, in a
 CR>sense.  simply machines with one innate feature seperating us
 CR>from the computers we now use... the feature of creating and
 CR>solving problems which have not been inputted into our minds...

You're reading more into The Origin of Species than is there - all Darwin did
was describe a process by which new species come into existance from other
species, based on, in effect, selective breeding.  The latter generally the
result of the action of the environment on the individuals; those with character
traits most likely to enable them to survive were more likely TO survive and
thus leave more offspring.  While Darwin spoke mostly of natural environmental
variations, these can also be manmade, something stockbreeders have known for a
long time.  (No, they generally don't create new species, but the time scale
isn't long enough.  The process is visible enough.)  Sure, the process makes no
reference to the individual.  Twasn't the subject!  This no more means the
individual is unimportant than a geology text describing the long term effects
of plate tectonics means that individual earthquakes are unimportant.

--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [18] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 69 of 143
 From : Kay Shapero                         1:102/524       .cê 21 .íâ 96 09:38
 To   : Don Dellmann
 Subj : PKD
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Jan 20 06:50>, Don Dellmann (1:154/40) wrote to Frank Glover:

 FG> And more to your point is `Total Recall.' What indeed if youcould
 FG> submerge an old personality and set of memories under a new one...and

 DD>Which sounds suspiciously like a 1966 Phillip K. Dick short story
 DD>"We Can Remember It For You Wholesale"

Total Recall was based loosely on the story - though they left out the wilder
recursions.

--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [18] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 70 of 143
 From : Otto Cordray                        1:106/1393      .îí 22 .íâ 96 21:29
 To   : Chris Myers
 Subj : Re: Star Trek
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

CR>DJ> -> I must have some problems with my terminal, I
CR>DJ> -> almost thought you said
CR>DJ> -> "good" and "ST:Voyager" in the same sentence.  The captain is a
CR>DJ> -> woman, trying to be a man.  Now if she were a
 CM> lesbian (which... who knows?)

I hate to say this, but a friend of mine ruined Voyager for me. Before I ever
saw an episode of it he said that the Captain sounded like Jane Curtin's
Conehead character. When I got around to seeing an episode, that was indelibly
etched in my thoughts. Though Janeway is really only slightly nasally, I keep
thinking of Mrs. Conehead. I throw myself on the mercy of trekdom.

Otto

--- Maximus/2 3.01
 * Origin: The Round Table, BBS of Gulf Coast Mensa * 922-1393 (1:106/1393)

Ä [18] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 71 of 143
 From : Kay Shapero                         1:102/524       .îí 22 .íâ 96 13:23
 To   : Christian Raven
 Subj : Re: Star Trek
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Jan 22 01:35>, Christian Raven (1:393/7@fido) wrote to Kay Shapero:

 CR>wasn't until quite recently that women began to take on some of
 CR>the roles of their male counterparts.  so the way i see it, you
 CR>can't destroy that much evolved instinct in just a few decades...
 CR>most likely, it will take quite a long time.

It would, were that the problem.  But believe me, raising children is not a task
for those with an instinctual problem with being in charge or giving orders. :->
No such thing exists (or we wouldn't have women interested in such things to
begin with.)  What does exist is the fact that males are generally bigger than
females so can physically dominate, and that nobody operates in a vaccuum,
completely unaffected by their own culture.  Given historians, anthropologists
and the like influenced by the assumption that male achievement is the most
important, they will study history and other cultures from the point of view of
the male, and dismiss the female as secondary.  Which produces warped results
when local society involves a male's portion and a female's portion, each
independantly run by the members thereof and interacting as a group.

Mankind is capable of a good deal of societal variety, precisely because we have
so few real instincts.

 CR>  i agree, assertiveness is far superior to raw agression in the
 CR>long term.  however, in order to gain the respect of your crew so
 CR>that they will trust your assertations, you must show some degree
 CR>of fearlessness, true compassion, and strong will.

None of which requires aggression - you're confusing your terms.  Take a look at
such historical figures as Florence Nightengale, or Dickie Chapelle.

 CR>  i agree with your last paragraph, and feel that with all the
 CR>newness of an unexplored quadrant, couldnt they come up with
 CR>something better?  i did like the most recent episode featuring
 CR>the silver-alloy robots, however.

Not bad, though they were a bit hamhanded about the Message.  They're learning.


--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [18] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 72 of 143
 From : Kay Shapero                         1:102/524       .îí 22 .íâ 96 20:38
 To   : Christian Raven
 Subj : Re: Star Trek Sexism
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Jan 22 01:43>, Christian Raven (1:393/7@fido) wrote to Todd Sullivan:

 CR>easy.  my personal work as a tatoo artist has proven to me that
 CR>the female sex is striving to the extreme to become male.
 CR>sometimes i laugh... but i always give them their tat's.  i don't

How does doing tattoos make you think that women are trying to be men?  Let me
guess - the progression

a) Tattoos are for men.
b) women are coming to get tattoos.
c) women are trying to be men.

And while c follows logically from postulates a and b, since postulate a is
faulty, so is your conclusion.

I'm sorry you feel threatened, but retreating into that particular fantasy world
then broadcasting it is mostly going to get you the horselaugh in a gathering of
SF fans (well.. maybe not the John Norman fans. :->).  Relax, lad, you'll never
make it as a biologist or anthropologist, but good tattoo artists are important
too.

--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [18] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 73 of 143
 From : Elizabeth H. Penrose                1:129/26        .óá 20 .íâ 96 09:36
 To   : Frank Swarbrick
 Subj : Re: Good Ole Riker...
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
The credits of Gargoyles go by too fast to see more than a few voices, though I
look for Ed Asner's name.  Quick attribution is a minor irritation of
high-priced air space.  Sports is a major irritation.

--- Maximus 3.01
 * Origin: SoundingBoard, Pittsburgh PA (1:129/26)

Ä [18] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 74 of 143
 From : Elizabeth H. Penrose                1:129/26        .óá 20 .íâ 96 09:47
 To   : David Johnston
 Subj : Re: Tv And Sf
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
I like brainless entertainment -- I _loved_ Jumanji!  But how well does
Hollywood entertain?  In the bad old days of the 1950's, if you wanted a
"movie", you watched the product:  glossy TV and movies, the dying serial, the
glorious Warner Brother cartoons.  If you wanted something serious (if you lived
in a large city), you could seek out a foreign movie house and see Felini,
"Forbidden Games", Sanjait Ray.  Nowadays there are still a few, rare serious
movies, and not necessarily at the art houses.  But where's the entertainment?
A few TV shows, one or two movies, and a lot of pretty film/video with no
entertainment value.  The "echoers" (surely that isn't the right term!) praise a
few recent shows, but mostly treasure the good movies and television of the
past.
     I'm not nostalgic.  I don't like the racism and sexism of past product, and
the studio system was crippling.  I just don't think there's much I'd want to
see at a matinee.

--- Maximus 3.01
 * Origin: SoundingBoard, Pittsburgh PA (1:129/26)

Ä [18] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 75 of 143
 From : Don Dellmann                        1:154/40        .òp 23 .íâ 96 04:56
 To   : Kay Shapero
 Subj : Virtual Reality
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
While tripping merrily through the mail, Kay Shapero was overheard

 FG>   And more to your point is `Total Recall.' What indeed if
 FG>youcould submerge an old personality and set of memories under a
 FG>new one...and the new one upon learning of this, still seeks to
 FG>preserve his own identity? (If you saw the movie, the scene where
 FG>Arnie's character is pursuaded that all his experiences prior to,
 FG>and on Mars were the virtual experience he'd asked for [and even

 KS> And if you think that was strange, read the Philip K. Dick short story
 KS> on which it was (very loosely) based "We Can Remember It For You
 KS> Wholesale".  As will surprise nobody familiar with Dick, it's far
 KS> weirder than the movie dared to get. :->

I thought I was the only one to notice that <G>.

Don
... HEINLEINEKIN'S: The Strange Beer in a Strange Can
---
 * Origin: Anonymous BBS -=- Non plus Ultra -=- 414-251-2580 (1:154/40)

Ä [18] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 76 of 143
 From : David Johnston                      1:342/14        .îí 22 .íâ 96 00:07
 To   : Brad Morgan
 Subj : Foundation Again
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
-> CO->BW>Should you read the one(s) before it even
-> CO->BW>though they were written after or even though they take place
-> before CO->BW>should you read them after? (kinda like the Star Wars
-> movies, even CO->BW>though all six will be out one of these days you
-> should still watch CO->BW>parts 4, 5, and 6 first.)
->
-> CO->I've only read the trilogy, so I can't help.  But, for the
-> record, Star CO->Wars has NINE parts, not six.  (Three trilogies -
-> one before "A New CO->Hope", one after "Return of the Jedi")
->
-> CO->Opus
->
-> Why can't I find the other 6 books? Back when the earth was cooling,
-> when the initial Star Wars came out, I remember seeing all 9 books in
-> the bookstore, but I haven't been able to find the 1st or 3rd trilogy
-> since...I have checked books in print off and on during the years,
-> but still, no books...I'm starting to wonder if I was hallucinating
-> way back then...

The other Star Wars books, such as Splinter of the Mind's Eye, and the
Han Solo and Lando Calrissian books were not versions of the still
awaited other 6 planned parts to the Star Wars series of films.

--- PCBoard (R) v15.21/100
 * Origin: Freddy's Place - Edm. AB - 28.8K (403) 456-4241 (1:342/14)

Ä [18] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 77 of 143
 From : Todd Sullivan                       1:202/720.3     .cê 21 .íâ 96 17:32
 To   : Don Dellmann
 Subj : VIRTUAL SEX
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
While substituting for Q, Don Dellmann took extreme delight in saying to Frank
Glover, "You'll do anything I say?"  Frank quailed when the words "VIRTUAL SEX"
were uttered.

 FG>> ripped off...er, *borrowed* in a recent ST:Voyager episode where the
 FG>> Doctor is having similar things happen to him...)

 DD> Which sounds suspiciously like a 1966 Phillip K. Dick short story
 DD> "We Can Remember It For You Wholesale"

Total Recall was based on Dick's story; is says so (in small print) in the
credits.  Another story used in many places.

Todd Sullivan

... Your Punishment:  You Must Join the Windows Workgroup For a Year!

-*- ASTG 1.9

--- Spot 1.3a Unregistered
 * Origin: Todd's Spot in the Continuum (1:202/720.3)

Ä [18] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 78 of 143
 From : Todd Sullivan                       1:202/720.3     .cê 21 .íâ 96 17:36
 To   : Chris Ogniben
 Subj : nuclear BS
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
While substituting for Q, Chris Ogniben took extreme delight in saying to Shawn
Merrow, "You'll do anything I say?"  Shawn quailed when the words "nuclear BS"
were uttered.

 CO>    Man, just reading that hurts.  I mean, they took rod out, and
 CO> explosion happened, two dudes fly off, another dude get's the rod into
 CO> his body.  I mean, impaled that is.  It just sounds very painful, and
 CO> makes you think twice than to be working at a nuclear power planet.
 CO> Thank goodness that, no radiation leaked out, or anything else that
 CO> could have happend in a very bad way, didn't.

That incident was in the *early* days of nuclear power, and was Army, who had
less experience than anyone else in reactor management.  Those lessons have been
learned.

Todd Sullivan

... "California dreamin' on such a winter's day." --Mommas & Pappas

-*- ASTG 1.9

--- Spot 1.3a Unregistered
 * Origin: Todd's Spot in the Continuum (1:202/720.3)

Ä [18] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 79 of 143
 From : Brandon Wolgast                     1:363/216       .cê 21 .íâ 96 21:35
 To   : Christopher O'conor
 Subj : Foundation Again
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: HyperMail! v1.21 94-0049

CO>BW>Should you read the one(s) before it even
CO>BW>though they were written after or even though they take place before
CO>BW>should you read them after? (kinda like the Star Wars movies, even
CO>BW>though all six will be out one of these days you should still watch
CO>BW>parts 4, 5, and 6 first.)

CO>I've only read the trilogy, so I can't help.  But, for the record, Star
CO>Wars has NINE parts, not six.  (Three trilogies - one before "A New
CO>Hope", one after "Return of the Jedi")

Yes, but we all know I think that the third trilogy will not be made.
Lucas even stated that, "Star Wars is actually six movies." So you know.

---
 * OLX 2.1 TD * Hello, I am part number ||#||||#||#||#||

--- HyperMail! v1.21
 * Origin: Data Systems Internat'l (407)292-8009 Call Today! (1:363/216)

Ä [18] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 80 of 143
 From : Emilio Ares                         1:379/1         .îí 22 .íâ 96 17:19
 To   : Mark Jones
 Subj : Re: X-files
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE 1.11+

-=> Quoting Mark Jones to Emilio Ares <=-


 MJ> Or something.  I just finished DRAKON (the new Draka novel by S. M.
 MJ> [STEVE] Stirling).  One of the technologies you encounter in this

Can you send a list of the novels in this series?  S.M.Stirling is a good
writer and I've the entire "The General" series.

Emilio



... To kidnap a Kzin is probably a mistake.
--- GEcho 1.11+
 * Origin: The Transporter Room - Online Doom! - 704/567-9513 (1:379/1)

Ä [18] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 81 of 143
 From : Emilio Ares                         1:379/1         .îí 22 .íâ 96 17:19
 To   : Jon Helis
 Subj : Re: Star Trek
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE 1.11+

-=> Quoting Jon Helis to Emilio Ares <=-



 JH> Voyager has had some good scripts, but again, it's also had some
 JH> disappionting ones.  The problem I see with Voyager, as I
 JH> observed in this echo even before the show came on, is trying to
 JH> use a premise that has been unsuccessfully used before in
 JH> Battlestar:Galactica and Space:1999 on Star Trek.  It just won't
 JH> work.

The premise can work if it is handled correctly.  That is the problem with
Voyager.  The writers they have seem to be afraid to use the possibilities
of the unexplored region of space in which they are trapped.  Admittedly,
some scripts have been better than mediocre but not up to the caliber of
DS9.

Emilio



... Shhh!  Be vewy quiet!  I'm assimiwating Womulans! -Elmer of Borg
--- GEcho 1.11+
 * Origin: The Transporter Room - Online Doom! - 704/567-9513 (1:379/1)

Ä [18] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 82 of 143
 From : Emilio Ares                         1:379/1         .îí 22 .íâ 96 17:19
 To   : Glenn Shaheen
 Subj : Re: Star Trek
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE 1.11+

-=> Quoting Glenn Shaheen to Emilio Ares <=-

 EA>Star Trek, yes, in all its incarnations except Voyager.  They need to hir
 EA>some writers.

 GS> VOYAGER?!?!!?! I think Deep Space 9 is the one who needs to
 GS> get some writers. Voyager is actually pretty good.
 GS> -=-

You must be watching a different Voyager than I am.  I stand by my opinion
and I respect yours.

Emilio



... No cause is so right that one cannot find a fool following it.<Niven>
--- GEcho 1.11+
 * Origin: The Transporter Room - Online Doom! - 704/567-9513 (1:379/1)

Ä [18] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 83 of 143
 From : Ecarey                              1:101/230       .óá 20 .íâ 96 06:51
 To   : Michael Harper
 Subj : TV AND SF
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 >LED> You point out one glaring difference between US and British TV,
 >LED> that  some foundational degree of culture was present when their
 >LED> networks  started. The American networks tried to rise above the poor
 >LED> breeding of  the typical American.
 >
 >  But don't forget, for every BBC Shakespeare production, there were
 > half
 >  a dozen sitcoms that were just as brainless as anything we have
 > here.
 >  The British and Europeans aren't the paragons of culture you'd like
 > to
 >  think; ten years ago, I saw a Scots folk band called the Tannahill
 >  Weavers here. During the course of their show, they lamented the
 > fact
 >  that they were missing _Dallas_. At the time, it was a national
 >  obsession in Britain and Europe.

The fact that we're cherry-picking British culture, importing only the best bits
for our enjoyment, is frequently missed by those who assume that what they see
is all there is, or at least typical of all the rest.

The immense world-wide popularity of _American_ cultural products is steadfastly
ignored, or treated as an act of aggression on _our_ part. However, although
you've noticed its popularity world-wide, I note that you _haven't_ asked
yourself why, if it's so inferior, it nevertheless manages to speak so
effectively to such a wide variety of people in so many differenÀù)hEÓÄÞ cultur.
Àïm@FI
It's rarely apparent _at the time_ which bits of contemporary culture are going
to be lastingly valued; we make a mistake in believing we can pass final
judgment on what's being produced now, and expect to be more right past
generations of cultural pundits were about the products of _their_ era.

 >LED> Why does my gut suspect a educated and ethical population might
 >LED> not buy so much nonrenewable consumables or docilely accept this level
 >LED> of mediocrity in entertainment?
 >
 >  The audience isn't the problem. The execs and the sponsors are the
 >  problem. The government is a major problem when it comes to
 >  nonrenewables. Read _Fallen Angels_ by Larry Niven, Jerry Pournelle
 > and                                                                  ¡Ê
 >  Michael Flynn. Then get back to me on nonrenewable resources.

The advertisers sponsor the most _popular_ programs available, or else the most
popular with the demographic they're interested in reaching.

A large part of the problem here is simple snobbery, and an unrealistic
estimation of what the "common man" of _prior_ generations was doing for
entertainment.  In Shakespeare's, the illiterate groundlings were attending
Shakespeare's highly commercial and successful popular plays - and also
bear-baitings, dog-fights, and cock-fights.

We're not doing worse today - the bear-baitings are gone, dog-fights and
cock-fights are less generally popular than they were, and executions - popular
public entertainment right down to the nineteenth century - are now witnessed
only by the families of perpetrator and victim. Meanwhile, the classics of many
centuries are in print, and readily availale in almost any bookstore - which
means they're _selling_, unpopular as that conclusion is. The bookstore chains
are wholly focussed on profit, which means that, espcially in cramped little
mall bookstores, they can't afford to waste shelf space on things that don't
sell. Of course romance novels and the Destroyer books sell, too, but this isn't
exactly a new and original cultural crime - or even a cultural crime at all.
There has always been light entertainment, although in prior centuries much less
of it was in print form ecause many _fewer_  people were capable of reading, and
books were vastly more expensive. Often the "light entertainment" is enjoyed by
the same people who, at other times, are also buying those classics.

Think about the implications of the fact that Jane Austen is one of the hottest
new writers in the tv & movie business these days, responsible for PERSUASION,
SENSE AND SENSIBILITY, CLUELESS, and the recent A&E PRIDE AND PREJUDICE. What
this means is that people are perfectly happy to watch movies and tv shows based
on some of the enduring classics of English-speaking culture - which in turn, in
their own day, were only "light entertainment".

The same is true of Shakespeare, and modern movie productions such as HENRY V,
RICHARD III, and OTHELLO - I mean, of course, _including_ the part about
Shakespeare having been "light entertainment", not high culture, in his own day.

The truth is, we have no idea what may survive from our own time to be regarded
as "high culture" by future generations, and the assumption that _nothing_ will
is pure pseudo-sophisticated snobbery firmly grounded in ignorance of what was
popular and what not, and how _present_ classics were regarded, by earlier
generations.

As for FALLEN ANGELS - surely noticed how hard the authors were grinding their
particular political axes? To the extent that their concerns are _real_, there
are much better explications of their points, and much of their "points" are in
fact mere political demonizing of those who disagree with them.

A footnote - if the American public is so completely ignorant and illiterate,
why were A BRIEF HISTORY OF TIME, by Stephen Hawking, and THE NAME OF THE ROSE,
by Umberto Eco, both runaway bestsellers? Hint:Arguments that they were bought
but not read by people who wanted to look fashionable are arguments proceeding
from the _conclusion_ that the American people are _of course_ illiterate. No
one has ever offered any direct evidence that people who obught these books were
actually less likely to have read them than any other bestseller - and I
personally am quite struck by the notion of hundreds of thousands of commuters
carrying around the hardcover of THE NAME OF THE ROSE, solely to impress all the
stranges on the bus and the subway with them.:)

--- FLAME v1.0
 * Origin: Withouta Net - Drop In Anytime! - 617/846-5416 (1:101/230)

Ä [18] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 84 of 143
 From : Ecarey                              1:101/230       .óá 20 .íâ 96 07:09
 To   : Roelof Otten
 Subj : NUCLEAR
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 >PA> The most common human mutation over the past 30 or so years has not
 >PA> been very beneficial to the specie as a whole.
 >PA>                 It's called "cancer"
 >
 > Two things, cancer isn't a mutation, but a disease. Neither is it
 > something of the last 30 years, it has been there for a long, long
 > time, but the fact that so many people catch cancer (not sure about
 > the right syntax) is because most other diseases are under control
 > so they don't kill us. That gives cancer more time to get us.

Develop. One develops cancer. The replication errors that cause cancer have
themselves a variety of potential causes, very few of which are believed to be
due to infectious elements. [Feline leukemia is one example of a cancer that
_is_ caused by a virus, and there's a vaccine for it.]

Cancer is a set of replication errors  at the genetic level, destroying the bits
that tell the cell to die after a certain number of replications. Sometimes,
those replication errors are caused by radition; sometimes, they  occur
spontaneously. This _is_ mutation. It's not that different in principle from the
spontaneous mutation that can produce hemophilia in a family that has not
previously carried the hemophilia gene.  The principle practical difference is
that many forms of cancer take many years to develop, whereas hemophilia
expresses itself as soon as the gene is present in a male infant.

Dislike of the term "mutation" here to describe cancer seems to be founded on
the mistaken belief that "mutations" must be caused by radiation, and that
therefore mutations are a reasonable basis for opposing nuclear power plants.
That's not the case. Mutations _can_ be caused by radiation, but they also occur
spontaneously, all the time - look at the speed with which viruses change.

But your basic point, that cancer isn't new; it just has more time to develop in
more people because we're not dying of something else first anymore, is quite
correct.

--- FLAME v1.0
 * Origin: Withouta Net - Drop In Anytime! - 617/846-5416 (1:101/230)

Ä [18] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 85 of 143
 From : Ecarey                              1:101/230       .óá 20 .íâ 96 07:18
 To   : Bianca Wesslak
 Subj : NUCLEAR
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 >PA> Hmmm.... The High-ASCII must not be translating.  It's
 >PA> supposed to be the Greek spelling of "Thanatos", but the theta,
 >PA> omega and sigma aren't coming across...
 >  What or who is Thanatos??

The Greek god of death.

Where did you go to school?

 >PA> Well, realistically speaking, you'd probably run out of
 >PA> ammunition before the looters finish ransacking your pantry...
 >  what ammunition, I don't own a gun.  The only thing close to that
 > would
 >  be a modified toy pellet gun my fiance has.

Then you'd be defenseless, in a world grown very dangerous.

 > What makes you so sure
 > any
 >  looters would hit my home and not some supermarket??

The looters will hit whatever is convenient to hit. They won't just hit one
place, they won't do it just once, and there won't be just one group of looters.
Supermarkets would be an obvious target, but by the same token, there'd be a lot
more competition for them. You, alone and unarmed in your home, would have less
to steal, but you'd be a much easier target. Most likely, they'd take what you
have, and kill you for not having more.

 > Where in the
 > world
 >  did you get the above statement from me saying I'd beg some native
 >  americans for survival lessons??  Ya got me stumped.

Bianca, since you appear to have _zero_ survival skills, like many and probably
most people who've lived their whole lives in a technologically advanced
culture, you'd be begging _someone_ for survival skills, for sure.

Take a look at your own tagline:


 > ... "Vegetarian": Indian word for "lousy hunter".

--- FLAME v1.0
 * Origin: Withouta Net - Drop In Anytime! - 617/846-5416 (1:101/230)

Ä [18] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 86 of 143
 From : Ecarey                              1:101/230       .óá 20 .íâ 96 07:20
 To   : Bianca Wesslak
 Subj : NUCLEAR
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 >MJ> Why would the electricity be gone?  Maybe it just "went away".  (The
 >MJ> novel ARIEL describes such a situation--a very good fantasy story,
 >MJ> too.)
 >  I don't know, ask phlash, he's the one that came up with the
 > scenario.

Bianca, the suggestion arose because you had expressed opposition to/disapproval
of _all_ of the means of generating electricity that can possibly produce enough
to support our current high-tech culture.

--- FLAME v1.0
 * Origin: Withouta Net - Drop In Anytime! - 617/846-5416 (1:101/230)

Ä [18] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 87 of 143
 From : Dkimmel                             1:101/230       .óá 20 .íâ 96 07:22
 To   : Ecarey
 Subj : TV AND SF
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
EC>Think about the implications of the fact that Jane Austen is one of the hott
EC>new writers in the tv & movie business these days, responsible for PERSUASIO
EC>SENSE AND SENSIBILITY, CLUELESS, and the recent A&E PRIDE AND PREJUDICE. Wha
EC>this means is that people are perfectly happy to watch movies and tv shows
EC>based on some of the enduring classics of English-speaking culture - which i
EC>turn, in their own day, were only "light entertainment".

EC>The same is true of Shakespeare, and modern movie productions such as HENRY
EC>RICHARD III, and OTHELLO - I mean, of course, _including_ the part about
EC>Shakespeare having been "light entertainment", not high culture, in his own
EC>day.

EC>The truth is, we have no idea what may survive from our own time to be regar
EC>as "high culture" by future generations, and the assumption that _nothing_ w
EC>is pure pseudo-sophisticated snobbery firmly grounded in ignorance of what w
EC>popular and what not, and how _present_ classics were regarded, by earlier
EC>generations.

Now THERE'S a scary thought.  It's the late 21st century, and the
cultural mavens are reviving what they consider the most enduring
legacies of the late 20th century: the works of Benny Hill and Jim
Carrey.  (Proposal for a Ph.D. thesis: "Moe Howard, Jerry Lewis and
other precursors to the Carrey masterpieces.")

Be afraid.  Be VERY afraid.


 * SLMR 2.1a * He looks like a young Jabba the Hutt.

--- FLAME v1.0
 * Origin: Withouta Net - Drop In Anytime! - 617/846-5416 (1:101/230)

Ä [18] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 88 of 143
 From : Jason Lang                          1:105/34        .óá 20 .íâ 96 05:39
 To   : Chris Ogniben
 Subj : X-files and the roach problem
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Only problem is that the roaches WERN'T killing people... Okay, mabie the
Exterminator in the begining, mabie if you streach it, the guy who had the heart
attack.

        `sides, who said Mulder was wrong about the Insect probes? he DID find a
METAL cockroach exoskeliton. That hardly sounds like a normal bug to me. (then
again, mabie that explains why they don't die. Step on them, poison them, Use
explosives, and they just scurry away...:)


--- Maximus/2 3.01
 * Origin: The Abomination (1:105/34)

Ä [18] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 89 of 143
 From : Frank Swarbrick                     1:104/825       .cê 21 .íâ 96 21:25
 To   : Chris Ogniben
 Subj : Re: SLIDERS/ANY NEWS?
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12  92-0022
On 01-18-96  13:47 my Very Good Friend Chris Ogniben said:

 CO> Excuse me, are you guys fans of Strange Luck, and seen all the new
 CO> episodes.  If i were FOX, i would air Sliders on Thursday night at 8
 CO> pm.  Since there really isn't anything else to watch on thursday
 CO> night, other than a thursday night prime movie, on HBO, at 9 pm.  This
 CO> way, Voyager is on monday.  Tuesday is Deadly Games, and Wednsday is
 CO> SeaQuest, Thursday Sliders and Friday's Strange Luck and X files.  ANd
 CO> i am a big fan of the show strange luck, and looking to talk about
 CO> some of the past episodes with anyone else who is a fan of it.  And i
 CO> don't want FOX to get rid of Strange Luck, which is as good as X-Files,
 CO> to put in Sliders.  If they do that, i would be very angry at all the
 CO> slider fans out there.

Hate to break it to you, but SeaQuest has been cancelled.  So it looks
like Wednesdays are open for you there.  But you have to remember,
some FOX show has to be cancelled first before Sliders can go
anywhere...

I like Strange Luck well enough, but it's kind of boring at times.
Still, I don't want to see it cancelled.  I'm still mad that they
cancelled VR.5!

        Frank

... No one can hear when you're Screaming in Digital!
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12
 * Origin: The Bailey Information Exchange BBS, 28.8k v.fc  (1:104/825.0)

Ä [18] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 90 of 143
 From : Frank Swarbrick                     1:104/825       .cê 21 .íâ 96 21:33
 To   : Chris Bach
 Subj : X-files
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12  92-0022
On 12-20-96  14:40 my Very Good Friend Chris Bach said:

 ->       I thought the other days roach episode was pretty darn cheesy,
 -> kind of like one of those old "B" 50s movies where they threw various
 -> neat-o effects in to help scare the audience. Every now and then
 -> there is a good one, but they are slacking off.

 CB> To be even more recent, I thought x-files really slacked off
 CB> when they showed that sewer alien-like predator episode again. It's
 CB> old and they've played it almost 3 times already! It was a bit of a
 CB> slacker to begin with as well, I wasn't impressed. They have excellent
 CB> shows now and then and excellent season premieres, but they do, like
 CB> you said, slack off on occasion...

Personally, I've always liked "The Host," but I agree with you that
they didn't need to show it again.  I just wish they'd re-show "Deep
Throat," which is I believe the only episode I haven't seen.

As for "War of the Coprophages", the one with the roaches, I loved it.
You may noticed that Darin Morgan wrote that one, as well as "Humbug"
(the circus episode) and "Clyde Bruckman's Final Repose" (the psychic
who knew how people would die).  Definately the three funniest
episodes, and three of the best as well.  They're definately a little,
shall we say, different than your average X-File ep., but I love the
change of pace.

I think I could agree that sometimes they "slack off," but honestly I
think it's only in comparision to their other great episodes.
Sometimes they're just too good for their own good.  I watched the
first season episode "Roland" when it repeated in December.  Most fans
will say it's only an average episode, and I agree, but I liked it a
lot.  About the only X eps that I really don't like are "GenderBender"
and "Shapes" (first season), and "The List" (third season).  Oh, and I
wasn't too big on "Firewalker" (second season).

        Frank

... No one can hear when you're Screaming in Digital!
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12
 * Origin: The Bailey Information Exchange BBS, 28.8k v.fc  (1:104/825.0)

Ä [18] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 91 of 143
 From : STEPHEN ADAMS                       1:377/77        .îí 22 .íâ 96 14:40
 To   : CHRIS MYERS
 Subj : NOWHERE MAN
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE 1.2
On 01/19/96 at 18:29, CHRIS MYERS uttered these words to STEPHEN ADAMS:
"NOWHERE MAN," which prompted this discussion:

Hello Chris...

CM> Okay, I give up.  I (pardon me) have never heard of the show
CM> "Nowhere Man" Is it on Fox or one of the other cable stations.
CM> Everyone talks about it so fondly, I'd like to take a look at it.

"Nowhere Man" is a UPN show, so check your local listings for the UPN
station. It normally is scheduled for 9 pm (Eastern time) on Monday
evenings, right after Star Trek: Voyager.

Let us know what you think of it, OK?

Later...

Steve
Monday, January 22, 1996 at 14:44 ET
Internet:  stephen.adams@bandit-bbs.com

---
 * RM 1.3  * Eval Day 47 *

---  WC!/IM!/GE-PRO1.20!
 * Origin: Longbow BBS! Tampa, FL (813)961-3653 USR V.34+ DS (1:377/77)

Ä [18] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 92 of 143
 From : Gary Warren                         1:382/92.7      .îí 22 .íâ 96 17:44
 To   : All
 Subj : Austin Trekday Review/John de Lancie ("Q") Speaks!
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
========================================================================
 Copied from AUSTIN_SCIFI by Gary Warren (1:382/92.7)
========================================================================
Paragon Trekday (mini-con?)
Sunday, January 21, 1996
Coronado Room, Palmer Auditorium/Austin, Texas
B/B-



        Teri and I attended another one-afternoon STAR TREK convention
in Austin.  "So here's another one of Gary's negative con reviews?"  you ask.
"So what ABOUT it?"
        I defiantly answer, "So this one was pretty decent and --BIG SURPRISE
-- it wasn't a Creation ordeal, THAT'S so what!"
        Apparently, Paragon (any connection to the cable company and/or
film distributor?) just started its convention rounds, as the cramped
location and the one set of dealer's tables (its own) made crystal clear.
Austin's Palmer Auditorium's Coronado Room, situated in the auditorium's
sub-level, contained about 300 seats.  Some of the mini-con's ushers
told us the convention was located in this small area because the event
heads didn't know how many would come to its Austin debut.  Needless to say,
Trekday lured a standing-room-only crowd of 600 or more.  That wasn't bad
considering it cost $12.00 for each person at the door with only one
merchandiser selling TREK-ish goodies.
        Although de Lancie was supposed to speak at 1:30 or 1:45 p.m.
(depending upon whether you paid attention to the programs tacked onto
a couple of posts inside the small lecture room or the nameless emcee),
he didn't show up until 2 p.m.  He first seemed a bit tense, but soon
relaxed and gave a good question-and-answer show, as only "Q" can do!
His presentation was cut into two parts by his first autograph session, which
was hurried and left no room for fan chit-chat but which was also very well
conducted into three lines according to ticket colour (red, white and blue).
Some of his two-and-a-half-hour Q&A points included the following:


***************************************************************************
::::MASSIVE SPOILER WARNING ENABLED!::::STOP READING OR FOREVER HOLD YOUR
PEACE!::::YOU KNOW THE DRILL!::::
****************************************************************************


*       de Lancie's "Q" character will appear February on VOYAGER in an
episode titled "Death Wish."  The plot will involve "Q" offering Captain
Janeway (Kate Mulgrew) a chance for the _Voyager_ to return home.
"If you [Janeway] do something for me," de Lancie hinted with a twinkle,
"I'll do something for YOU." He also said that viewers will get another
view of the Q-Continuum, and there will be a scene with Earth outside of
Janeway's cabin window.  "Phhhhttt!  Easy come, easy go."

*       Among de Lancie's other projects for this year will be a
collaboration with Leonard Nimoy.  He offered no other hints about it
other than he hopes it'll be "wildly successful."

*       One of the chief reasons for the failure of his United Paramount
Network show LEGEND was that "UPN is not really a full-fledged network."
Even though UPN produced about 12 episodes, the show was cancelled after
three were aired.  de Lancie added that VOYAGER is still UPN's biggest
draw with ratings numbering around seven million viewers.

*       Although it may not have at first appeared so, his "Q" villain
grew during TNG's seven years.  "In the beginning, "Q" was there to make
the hero look good.  As the years went by, by the time of the final
episode, he was sprouting the pop psychology of the 90's."

*       Periodically in his presentation, de Lancie criticized the
mass media's effect on theatre and culture in general becuase
television, radio and even computers are devised to constantly
entertain their audiences.  He attributed this as another
reason why LEGEND failed to reach more viewers.  "People go to their
clickers when they're challenged . . . I think there's a problem with
people wanting to be entertained all the time--24 hours a day."
de Lancie further predicted that the future of theatre was in
jeopardy since "it demands people go to it and pay attention" while
movie and TV audiences talk during the shows.

*       So far, his favorite "Q" episode is TNG's "Tapestry," even
though the program's "heaven" sequences could have been better
filmed.


        After his lecture, a smaller autograph session for those missing the
first signings concluded the mini-con.  While this event wasn't the best
convention ever, it was much better than most of the Creation cons we've
attended.  Notwithstanding the small, crowded location, Trekday deserved a
B or B- for this first effort getting a first-rate fan favorite as a guest.


****************************************************************************
                                COPYRIGHT NOTICE


Copyrighted (c) by Gary L. Warren, POBox 529, Johnson City, Texas 78636,
(210) 868-4310.  This review may be rebroadcast or reprinted in any
bulletin board service (bbs), computer information service, non-profit
fanzine or computer network forum as long as full credit is given to
Ye Olde Critic (me) **with this complete COPYRIGHT NOTICE**.
****************************************************************************


... "Come back with me...make a difference AGAIN!" Picard to Kirk (ST:G)


... I'm not a Star Trek geek.  I just pay attention.

-+- PPoint 1.90
 + Origin: Gary's Bar and Grill! (1:382/92.7)

... Kllllingons have Rrrridges.

--- PPoint 1.90
 * Origin: Gary's Bar and Grill! (1:382/92.7)

Ä [18] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 93 of 143
 From : Frank Swarbrick                     1:104/825       .óá 20 .íâ 96 23:39
 To   : All
 Subj : weird tv
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12  92-0022
I'm a big fan of "weird" tv shows and am trying to make a list of
shows that fit.  I've tried to list the years they aired and how many
seasons (or seasons so far).  Any corrections welcome.

So far I have the following:

The Twilight Zone (195?-196?) [??]
The Outer Limits (1963?-1964?) [2]
The Prisoner (1968-1969) [2]
The Night Stalker (1974?-1975?) [1?]
Tales From The Darkside (198?-198?) [??]
The [new] Twilight Zone (198?-198?) [??]
Monsters (198?-198?) [??]
Friday The 13th: The Series (198?-198?) [??]
Twin Peaks (1990-1991) [2]
Tales From The Crypt (199?- ?) [??]
The X-Files (1993- ) [3]
The [new] Outer Limits (1994- ) [2]
VR.5 (1995) [1]
Nowhere Man (1995- ) [1]
American Gothic (1995- ) [1]

Of those, I've seen only a few episodes of The Prisoner, and none of
TNS or TFTC, but I love all the rest.  I'm tempted to add a current
personal favorite, Due South, but although it does have occasional
supernatural things like people talking to dead relatives, I guess it
doesn't really fit with all the rest.

Anyway, what other "weird" tv shows are out there?

        Frank

... There was a fish...in the percolator.
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12
 * Origin: The Bailey Information Exchange BBS, 28.8k v.fc  (1:104/825.0)

Ä [18] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 94 of 143
 From : Tommy Kellerman                     2:205/356       .ÿò 12 .íâ 96 22:26
 To   : Frank Glover
 Subj : Re: VIRTUAL SEX
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
In a message dated 08-Jan-96 20:55:04, Frank Glover wrote:

TK>  Are there really any corporations working on this...?

 FG>   Maybe just a gleam in the eye of some of the more forward looking  ones,
 FG> but make necessary hardware and data connections cheap enough,  and they
 FG> will come. (No pun intended!)

Hehe! It's OK. I was just curious about the development in this field.

I haven't even heard the expression since the releasing of "The Lawnmower-
Man".


/// -Tommy Kellerman- \\\

--- Xenolink 1.0 Z.3, EmacsXL.4
 * Origin: NoLimit, Furudal +46-258-10071 (2:205/356)

Ä [18] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 95 of 143
 From : Tommy Kellerman                     2:205/356       .ÿò 12 .íâ 96 22:33
 To   : Michael Harper
 Subj : Kristen and the bushes
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
While pulling my leg, Ol' Mikey Harper printed the following:

 MH>  -=> Over coffee and beignets, Tommy Kellerman told Michael Harper all
 MH> about Cybersex...

Do you write these texts yourself, or are they automated... :-?

 MH>  Kristen Cloke is the dark-haired beauty who plays Vansen on Space:
 MH>  Above & Beyond. There's something about her that makes me want to grab
 MH>  her and run into the woods...

 TK> And what would happen in there...?     =)

 MH>  I doubt that you're so young that you can't imagine it better than I
 MH>  can describe it... suffice to say there'd be a lot of moaning and
 MH>  screaming going on, and they'd have to drag both of us out on
 MH>  gurneys...

 MH>  And as soon as we recovered, we'd be back for more!

Hehe...


/// -Tommy Kellerman- \\\

--- Xenolink 1.0 Z.3, EmacsXL.4
 * Origin: NoLimit, Furudal +46-258-10071 (2:205/356)

Ä [18] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 96 of 143
 From : Tommy Kellerman                     2:205/356       .óá 13 .íâ 96 22:15
 To   : Chris Thurman
 Subj : Science Fiction
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
In a message dated 09-Jan-96 13:38:52, Chris Thurman wrote:

 CT> If any girls are looking for a guy who like science fiction then call on
 CT> your phone, not the modem, 386-0660 and ask for Mike.  He is an avid
 CT> science fiction fan, and he dumped all his girlfriends because they didn't
 CT> like science fiction.  He is a nice guy, 16 years old.  Call him if you
 CT> want to try to get hooked up with him, or if you just want to talk to a
 CT> science fiction fan.  If he asks you how you got his name and number then
 CT> please say it wasn't me because he might get mad at me, just tell him that
 CT> you talked to someone named Joe, and that Joe gave you his name and
 CT> number.

So now this is a contact agency, hehe!   =)



/// -Tommy K.- \\\     * No offence! *

--- Xenolink 1.0 Z.3, EmacsXL.4
 * Origin: NoLimit, Furudal +46-258-10071 (2:205/356)

Ä [18] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 97 of 143
 From : Tommy Kellerman                     2:205/356       .åò 18 .íâ 96 22:45
 To   : Tony Trujillo
 Subj : Re: Tom Holt & PTerry
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
While he was making meatballs, Tony Trujillo wrote the following:

 TT>> GO AWAY! I DIDN'T WRITE THAT! AHHH! GET OUT OF MY HEAD!
 TK> Que?

 TT> Sorry, Tom...somebody else wrote that using my name. I'm
 TT> usually a little more intelligent than that...well...maybe
 TT> not much more but I assure you it wasn't me who wrote that.

I believe ya.

 TT> Now...with that out of the way I notice you're accessing the
 TT> echo from Sweden. It's sure nice to meet folks half way
 TT> around the world via the computer networks. What kinds of
 TT> SF do you like?

Well, first I must say that it's nice to chat with people from the U.S.
as well.

The Highlander movies (except the second part) have a special place in my
heart, but I also like space sci-fi, like the Alien-trilogy, good ol'
Star Wars, Star Trek and the "V" - episodes.
The last mentioned have only been broadcasted twice, but the Swedish viewers
loved them. I just suspect that the channels are holding back on us, since
it seems that not all the episodes were bought. That sucks!

By the way, I'm reading Orwells "1984" right now. An interesting, but
pessimistic book about how the world could've looked like, if WW2
would've ended differently. Have you read it?

Now when I'm talking books here, I might as just say that Stephen King and
Dean R. Koontz are the best writers ever (IMHO).


How about you, Tony? What are your favorite SF - series/movies/books?



/// -Tommy K.- \\\   * Ssssssmmokin' !!! *

--- Xenolink 1.0 Z.3, EmacsXL.4
 * Origin: NoLimit, Furudal +46-258-10071 (2:205/356)

Ä [18] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 98 of 143
 From : Tommy Kellerman                     2:205/356       .åò 18 .íâ 96 22:53
 To   : Brion Lienhart
 Subj : Re: Cybersex
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
In a message dated 11-Jan-96 09:29:08, Brion Lienhart wrote:

 BL> Cloke is the dark-haired beauty who plays Vansen on Space:
 MH>  Above & Beyond. There's something about her that makes me want to grab
 MH>  her and run into the woods...

 BL>  -TK>And what would happen in there...?     =)

 BL> She would pull out the bayonet she got for christmass and eviscerate him.
 BL> 8-(:-)

Hmmmmm... Such words give me the creeps! (Ssshhhhake)  :-C

Well, you could always make a buck as a choir-boy afterwards... :-)



/// -Tommy K.- \\\  * Yeeeoww! Put it back on, it hurts goddammit ! *

--- Xenolink 1.0 Z.3, EmacsXL.4
 * Origin: NoLimit, Furudal +46-258-10071 (2:205/356)

Ä [18] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 99 of 143
 From : Anders Danebo                       2:201/190       .óá 20 .íâ 96 20:39
 To   : David Johnston
 Subj : Re: Star Trek
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

-=> Quoting David Johnston to Christian Raven <=-

 -> I must have some problems with my terminal, I almost thought you said
 -> "good" and "ST:Voyager" in the same sentence.  The captain is a
 -> woman, trying to be a man.  Now if she were a lesbian (which... who
 -> knows?) I might be able to take

 DJ> That's really quite an idiotic statement.  Giving orders is not a
 DJ> defining characteristic of masculinity.

True..I saw an episode of Dateline International where they had a segment
about Israeli soldiers and their training, and they had notised that female
trainers where better at getting through to the male trainees than the
male trainers where...

In short, female trainers are better trainers than male ones are...



... "My God, it's full of stores!" - 2001: A Shopping Odyssey
--- GEcho 1.00
 * Origin: =:Detroit Rock City:= Stockholm, Sweden  +46-8-870055 (2:201/190)

Ä [18] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 100 of 143
 From : Anders Danebo                       2:201/190       .cê 21 .íâ 96 10:03
 To   : All
 Subj : Babylon 5
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Anybody know where i can get a complete episode list over the complete
Babylon 5 series..And a similar list with episode descriptions...
If you can find a recent update of The British SF Logbook then let me know
where to find it...I need one fast...


... "Scotty!  Beam me aboard!"  "Aye sir!  Will a 2x4 do?"
--- GEcho 1.00
 * Origin: =:Detroit Rock City:= Stockholm, Sweden  +46-8-870055 (2:201/190)

Ä [18] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 101 of 143
 From : Jerry Van Kooten                    2:280/901.37    .îí 22 .íâ 96 21:31
 To   : Tommy Kellerman
 Subj : Re: V
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Hi Tommy,

Quoting <Tim Stackpool> to <Tommy Kellerman> (18-Jan-96, 02:27:18)
Subject: <Re: V>

A message from Holland here.

 TK>> Does anyone know how many episodes of "V" that are available?
 TK>> In Sweden they've shown about twelve, but I suspect
 TK>> there are more available.

I've seen the shows on English and Dutch TV. They both showed two series,
and I remember they both comprised of about six episodes.

See you,
Jerry

--- Terminate 3.00/Pro
 * Origin: There's an old droid saying: 001100101101001010001110 (2:280/901.37)

Ä [18] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 102 of 143
 From : Christian Raven                     1:393/7         .òp 23 .íâ 96 14:52
 To   : Frank Glover
 Subj : Re: Star Trek
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

FG>
FG> CL>   Besides if she's a lesbian....that might come as a real surprise to
FG> CL>  her
FG> CL>   BOYFRIEND she left back on Earth, right?
FG>
FG>    Maybe I missed something all along, but isn't Captain Janeway  actually
FG> married to that guy?
FG>
FG>    Frank
FG>

  ah, that entire idea is just a cover-up... i heard there's an episode in the
works where she is having neelix shave her head and tattoo a pink rainbow on her
scalp.
                                                        ..c.raven..
--- CNet/3
 * Origin: The Bard's Tavern Denton, TX (817)243-5110 USR 28.8   (1:393/7)

Ä [18] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 103 of 143
 From : Bill Clements                       1:18/230        .ÿò 19 .íâ 96 11:57
 To   : All
 Subj : NUCLEAR
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
`Fusion Without Ex-Lax' first published in `GALAXY' October 1976
(C)opyright by UPD Publishing Corporation Inc. and reprinted in
`A STEP FARTHER OUT' (C)opyright 1979 by Jerry Pournelle, Ph.D..

A brief quote from `Fusion Without Ex-Lax'
-----------------------------------------------------------------
If a man told you "The only physics I ever took was Ex-Lax,"
would you put him in charge of nuclear power policy?

That's not a trick question.  The founder of the California
Peoples Lobby once said it, and he was the architect of the
Nuclear Shutdown Initatives.

Alas, nuclear power is seldom discussed rationally.  There are
those who fear the atom; and others who have made "fusion" an
incantation, a magical formula which, when uttered, ends all
rational debate about power policies.

In fact, the situation is worse than that: "fusion" is a good
word and fusion scientists are white magicians; "fission" is
evil, and its supporters have made pacts with Satan to loose the
evil djinn Plutonium onto this world.  In these days when our
representatives have shunted off primary responsibility for
power policy onto the general public - or have abdicated their
leadership altogether - it's important that the public deal in
physics, not myth.

Now science fiction readers (and I hope, all my readers), unlike
the Ex-Lax expert, are seldom proud of ignorance.  Indeed, from
letters I get, and the audience response during my lectures, the
opposite is true.  The problem is that those who know quite a lot
about the energy crisis are often acutely aware of how much they
do not know; and thus are conscientious enough not to get into
the debates.  That's admirable, but it can be disastrous: often
only the opinionated and truly ignorant have a voice.
-----------------------------------------------------------------
This was written in 1976, and is still true today.  How's that
for a half life?  I implore all readers following this thread,
and all resultant threads, PLEASE read `A STEP FARTHER OUT' and
add it to your Pro-Nuclear Arsenal!


 * SLMR 2.1a * E-Mail  Bill.Clements@18-230.Genesplicer.Org

--- FLAME v1.1
 * Origin: ANCESTRY TBBS Shadows of forgotten ancestors 941-382-9061 (1:18/230)

Ä [18] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 104 of 143
 From : Channon Lang                        1:130/809       .òp 23 .íâ 96 20:50
 To   : Frank Glover
 Subj : Re: Star Trek
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE 1.11+
From a dark bottomless pit,Frank Glover screamed up to Channon Lang about Star
Trek..

 CL>   Besides if she's a lesbian....that might come as a real surprise to
 CL>  her
 CL>   BOYFRIEND she left back on Earth, right?
 FG>
 FG> Maybe I missed something all along, but isn't Captain Janeway
 FG> actually married to that guy?

 I don't think it really said what his relationship was exactly...just VERY
 involved with...who knows...

 Channon
... The awesome distance of interstellar wossname... probably quantum.
--- MachoEcho 0.5ñ
 * Origin: The State of Confusion * Arlington Tx * 817-274-1920 * (1:130/809)

Ä [18] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 105 of 143
 From : Channon Lang                        1:130/809       .òp 23 .íâ 96 20:50
 To   : Rod Mammitzsch
 Subj : Re: canadian stuff
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE 1.11+
From a dark bottomless pit,Rod Mammitzsch screamed up to Frank Swarbrick about
canadian stuff..

 RM> the show!  After all isn't the CN tower in the opening credits!

 Hubby and I went to Toronto for part of our Honeymoon trip. Do they still
 take you to Jupiter? It was nice traveling to another planet for a Honeymoon.
 And to think we were just gonna stop in Niagra Falls....

 Channon


... Cthulhu/North in '96: Why settle for a LESSER evil?
--- MachoEcho 0.5ñ
 * Origin: The State of Confusion * Arlington Tx * 817-274-1920 * (1:130/809)

Ä [18] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 106 of 143
 From : Tommy Kellerman                     2:205/356       .cê 21 .íâ 96 22:01
 To   : All
 Subj : UFO
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Hello everybody!
----------------

Tonight, about 6 P.M. CMT (Central Meridian Time) I was on my way home
from the bus-station when I noticed a strange-looking "star" in the
curtain of night. No clouds were about, and no moon shone.
Imagine a bright star, like Venus, and triple the brightness.
This was the object I saw. It hovered on about 400 meters and was about
4 km away. I haven't seen anything quite like it. No airplane or heli
could turn and accelerate like this thing! I felt like I was in an episode
of the X-Files or something! Completely weird. But there was no camera around.
And no, I was NOT under any kind of influence, for anybodys info.

About 7 P.M., the 'object' headed west, so maybe some of you guys will catch
a glimpse as well?


/// -Tommy K.- \\\   * Now I know that we're not alone *

--- Xenolink 1.0 Z.3, EmacsXL.4
 * Origin: NoLimit, Furudal +46-258-10071 (2:205/356)

Ä [18] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 107 of 143
 From : J.T. Smith                          1:132/152       .cê 21 .íâ 96 10:51
 To   : Chip Griffin
 Subj : Re: nuclear
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Contact has been made.

 JS>  As long as errors are capable of entering the equation, Nuclear power is
 JS> still extremely dangerous.  TMI is now trying to cyphon (sp?) off the
 JS> radioactive wastewater that has been left behind there into the atmosphere.
 JS> Gee, just what I've always wanted.  No thanks.
 CG> You are wrong.  There is so much double-checking of each other,
 CG> proceedures to provide guidance, high-tech equipment to backup and
 CG> force the right answer, maintenance to ensure equipment is functional,
 CG> proceedures to ensure equipment will work as designed, etc etc etc that
 CG> it is highly unlikely that an incident can happen, but if it does it
 CG> won't leave the site!
 CG> Your information on TMI is mistaken!

 Negative.  I used to live right near the bloody place.  It was in the
 Morning Call, and several other papers local to the area.  If I could get
 me hands on the dates, I would.  Found out about this when I was a sophomore
 in HS.  I'm a college graduate now.  give ye any indication of the time
 passed. And I don't care if they quadruple check this, mistakes can still be
 made, and they can very easily leave the sight.  Period!!!

 CG> Nuclear power IS SAFE!

 Aye, about as safe as an ICBM going of in yer shorts!  Again, nae thanks!


... In WW III, all men will be cremated equal.
--- Blue Wave v2.12 [NR]
 * Origin: The Cereal Port BBS (OS/2) Rindge,NH 603-899-3335 (1:132/152)

Ä [18] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 108 of 143
 From : Owen E. Oulton                      1:243/45        .îí 22 .íâ 96 21:35
 To   : Brad Morgan
 Subj : Foundation Again
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

CO-> for the record, Star Wars has NINE parts, not six.  (Three trilogies -
CO-> one before "A New Hope", one after "Return of the Jedi")

 BM> Why can't I find the other 6 books? Back when the earth was cooling,
 BM> when the initial Star Wars came out, I remember seeing all 9 books in
 BM> the bookstore, but I haven't been able to find the 1st or 3rd trilogy
 BM> since...I have checked books in print off and on during the years, but
 BM> still, no books...I'm starting to wonder if I was hallucinating way back
 BM> then...

Must've got hold of some bad acid, man...  :-)  There is no 9-book series out.
There are novelisations of the original and its sequels, but they came after
each movie.  There is a plethora of spin-off novels as well, but most of them
are less than 5 years old.  Now, what you might have seen was the three
novelisations, Splinter Of The Mind's Eye by Alan Dean Foster, the three Han
Solo spinoff nevels by Brian Daley, and the three Llando Calrissian spinoffs,
but I'll guarantee you that you didn't see a 9-book series.

Originally, Star Wars was a 12-part story which existed only as sketchy notes in
George Lucas' notebook.  When he made Star Wars, he figured that he was only
going to get to make one movie, and who knew if it was going to make any money,
so he picked the part now known as Part IV - A New Hope, and made a little flick
which had the working title of The Star Wars.  It was a phenomenon.  Suddenly,
he was richer than Croesus, and was able to make a sequel.  It was at that point
that he sat down and restructured the story into 9 parts, and rereleased Star
Wars with the "Part IV" header.  He made Empire and Jedi, and decided to take a
5 year break from Star Wars.  That break has stretched to nearly 15 years, and
he's gearing up to make the "first" trilogy.  The stories are just now being
written, from his notes.  Lately, the rumour has been going 'round that movies
7-9 will probably never get made, that Lucas will retire from the whole Star
Wars thing aftre they come out.

CFN, O

--- Maximus 2.01wb
 * Origin: Pandora's Box, Ottawa, Ont. 613-829-1209 (1:243/45)

Ä [18] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 109 of 143
 From : Owen E. Oulton                      1:243/45        .òp 23 .íâ 96 00:56
 To   : Kay Shapero
 Subj : Re: Star Trek
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 KS> (!!!).  Wouldn't want to, really - not that men are bad
 KS> necessarily (I'm married to one), but I'm perfectly
 KS> happy with the sex I've got.

Uh, Kay, did you mean that you're happy with your gender, or are you trying to
embarrass Nicolai in public?

CFN, O
<Ducking and Running>


--- Maximus 2.01wb
 * Origin: Pandora's Box, Ottawa, Ont. 613-829-1209 (1:243/45)

Ä [18] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 110 of 143
 From : Chris Ogniben                       1:2604/568      .óá 20 .íâ 96 13:50
 To   : Phill Ash
 Subj : Nuclear
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

   No what is really going on.  Is that tons of people think they can
do better in the world.  When all they do is complain about the
problems they face, instead of being more brave and handle those
problems on their own.  I think when anyone says that the american
people are stupid, and that the human race's future doesn't look good,
that they are right.  And i don't think there is anything anyone can do
to save it, since we are just getting stupider.  People attack each
other, and germs and diseases are winning, the human race is destined
to be totally wiped out, and no matter if it's going to happen when at
the year 2000, that the world known as earth goes through a stage, of
natural diasters to swallow up the human race, and start a new.  Or,
that we just kill each other, and have one of the worst futures of
violence and fear.  The human race, has only destruction written all
over it, since we kill, and attack one another and the enviroment, and
the people that try to save it, is just not enough to stop what life
has all ready destined into the human race, and that is total
destruction.


--- WM v3.11/93-0947
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Ä [18] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 111 of 143
 From : Chris Ogniben                       1:2604/568      .óá 20 .íâ 96 13:52
 To   : Phill Ash
 Subj : nuclear
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

   I can assure you, that since we live in a day and age, where you
gotta work for things, and to have happyness in your life.  And if you
refuse to do that, you are thrown out like garbage into the street,
working hard everyday to find something to eat and to stay alive.  But,
that is why when there is rioting going on, that people just do it,
since they know they are going to get free stuff.  And that is why if
you were anyone that lives in california, that it would be the king of
all states, that has the highest risks of violence, and to get a lot of
free stuff, everytime people run around like animals that escaped from
a zoo, and attack each other, and loot tons of stores.


--- WM v3.11/93-0947
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Ä [18] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 112 of 143
 From : Chris Ogniben                       1:2604/568      .óá 20 .íâ 96 13:53
 To   : Earl Green
 Subj : Megaspoiler - EXOGENESIS
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

  I don't understand why people post SPOLIER's in here, if they thing
that anyone else would want to find out things, way before the new
episode shows up.  It would probably be best for everyone, to just not
talk about anything for the upcoming new episodes of any sci fi series,
until you all seen it.


--- WM v3.11/93-0947
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Ä [18] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 113 of 143
 From : Chris Ogniben                       1:2604/568      .óá 20 .íâ 96 13:55
 To   : Don Dellmann
 Subj : nuclear BS
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

  Hey this discussion has gotten way off topic, that would probably be
best to talk about it, in the poilitical conference, than in the sci fi
conference.


--- WM v3.11/93-0947
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Ä [18] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 114 of 143
 From : Chris Ogniben                       1:2604/568      .óá 20 .íâ 96 13:56
 To   : Nicolai Shapero
 Subj : Science Fiction
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

   Yeah i agree, if you want to find a girl that is a sci fi fan out
there, that i suggest that you find the right conference, in order to
find that girl, but, don't put in here, and mess up this conference.


--- WM v3.11/93-0947
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Ä [18] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 115 of 143
 From : Chris Ogniben                       1:2604/568      .îí 22 .íâ 96 10:53
 To   : Todd Sullivan
 Subj : X-files and insects
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

   Yes, but, how do you know if that bug, that one that Mulder picked
up, and said welcome to the planet earth.  Was really a roach, that was
a little robot that was scoping out the earth.


--- WM v3.11/93-0947
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Ä [18] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 116 of 143
 From : Chris Ogniben                       1:2604/568      .òp 23 .íâ 96 13:11
 To   : David Johnston
 Subj : Nuclear
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

   No your wrong big time.  We wouldn't be able to clobber them.  Not
if they were like the Gem Hadar in STAR TREK.  So, beleive me, the
aliens that are not strong, and bred for fighting.  They may use
weapons to win against us.  But, the ones that are really bred to fight
and conquare if there is any aliens out there that are like that.  Will
be able to take us, just like that .


--- WM v3.11/93-0947
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Ä [18] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 117 of 143
 From : Chris Ogniben                       1:2604/568      .òp 23 .íâ 96 13:38
 To   : All
 Subj : vicotry!
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

   Yes, that is right, i am celebrating a Victory today.  And you
wonder, what is he talking about?  Well, this is what i am talking
about.  For a long time now, i be debating with tons of sci fi fans of
star trek online boards and chat boards.  Of all kinds, where we
discuss star trek topics.  And one of the biggest topics that seems to
be in everyones mind.  Is the yes and no of acheiving warp 10 with a
federation star ship.  And, now, since i always been telling those
people over and over again, that warp 10 can't be achieved by a
federation star ship.  That i got proof.  That is right Paramount just
showed a new episode of Voyager last night.  And at the and the end of
that episode, for those people that seen it.  There was a new episode
preview for the following week for on january 29th.  And the episode
will prove that Voyager and a shuttle craft.  And the reason why no
federation ships can ever go warp 10 or passed it.  And all i have to
say for those people that say that they can go passed it.  That, now
you can eat those words, since next week's new episode will show the
proof that no star ship can go warp 10.  And i also would like to see
the reason why again.  Since i know this is going to shut up all those
people that been stating that it was possible to go warp 10 and faster.
 And now you are going to face reality, thanks to Paramount, and this
new episode, that warp 10 can't be achieved and never will be.


--- WM v3.11/93-0947
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Ä [18] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 118 of 143
 From : Chris Ogniben                       1:2604/568      .òp 23 .íâ 96 13:40
 To   : Chris Thurman
 Subj : Science Fiction
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

   Excuse me, you apparently seem to not understand that this is the
science fiction conference.  And that there is not dating games in
here.  If you don't like it, then you should not be reading in here.
Since, people and the moderator of this forum, said alone and all, that
dating games is not allowed in here.  If you want to do that, find a
forum that accepts it.  But, don't clam up this dating crap in here.
And do you wanna know why you find this conference to be filled with
boring science fiction stuff?  Well i will tell you why, and that is
because you don't seem to understand it well enough, means that your
stupid to understand what is being talked about in here.  And lack the
experience to find what you read in here entertaining.


--- WM v3.11/93-0947
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Ä [18] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 119 of 143
 From : Chris Ogniben                       1:2604/568      .òp 23 .íâ 96 13:42
 To   : Chris Carter
 Subj : Nuclear
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

   I just find this to be a very disturbing conversation.  Since you
people are laughing about this.  Cancer is a very serious disease, and
you are both in the same world as we are, to face this disease.  And to
make fun of people, using this disease, or to make fun of the people
that suffer from this deadly disease, that you are both not human,
since you are treating people without respect.  And i think you should
apologize to everyone in here, and to those people that suffer from
this illness, to make up for what you said here.


--- WM v3.11/93-0947
 * Origin: Waterside BBS - NJ - (201) 641-5375 28.8k  (1:2604/568)

Ä [18] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 120 of 143
 From : Mark Jones                          1:105/302.47    .åò 18 .íâ 96 18:10
 To   : Chris Thurman
 Subj : Science Fiction
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On (16 Jan 96) Chris Thurman wrote to Brad Morgan...

 CT> If you want the area code for Mike and are willing to pay long
 CT> distance then call 203-386-0660.

Boy, you *are* dim.  You still don't get it.  Without the area code as
a hint, nobody CAN KNOW whether its a local call or not.  If you're in
the 203 area code, its local.  If not, its long distance.  But until
you put the LD code in the number there's NO WAY TO KNOW WHICH.


--- PPoint 1.78
 * Origin: Folcroft Sanitarium (hsmith@cure.com) (1:105/302.47)

Ä [18] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 121 of 143
 From : Mark Jones                          1:105/302.47    .óá 20 .íâ 96 01:08
 To   : David Johnston
 Subj : Virtual Sex
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On (18 Jan 96) David Johnston wrote to Mark Jones...

 DJ> -> Maybe so. Note that I am *not* referring to bondage games or
 DJ> -> S&M of the sort a lot of people enjoy. That's not my cup of
 DJ> -> tea, but as long as everyone involved is there by choice, its
 DJ> -> fine with me. I was writing specifically about *true* sadism.
 DJ>
 DJ> By definition, if the victim (or the perpetrator) is imaginary, we
 DJ> aren't talking about *true* sadism.

Well, we're getting into semantics here, but...I disagree.  If you're
getting your jollies from torturing someone--even if they exist only
as a computer-generated fantasy--you're a sadist.  It isn't the
reality of the victim that matters, but the fact that you're getting
enjoyment from inflicting pain (or simulated pain) on a victim.


--- PPoint 1.78
 * Origin: Folcroft Sanitarium (hsmith@cure.com) (1:105/302.47)

Ä [18] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 122 of 143
 From : Mark Jones                          1:105/302.47    .óá 20 .íâ 96 01:12
 To   : David Johnston
 Subj : Nuclear
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On (19 Jan 96) David Johnston wrote to Mark Jones...

 DJ> -> I was responding to a statement that, if electricity vanished, she
 DJ> -> would go live on a reservation and hunt for her food.
 DJ>
 DJ> OK...  Wait, I still don't get it.  Her strategy would in fact seem to
 DJ> be the best one to encourage personal survival, even if many others
 DJ> would try to do the same thing.  What's your point?

My point is that her strategy may *be* the best one available.
However, it is *still* doomed to failure.  This continent simply
cannot support 250,000,000 people without a very elaborate and
high-tech infrastructure.  As Nicolai put it, the vast majority of
people would starve.  Many of the rest would die by violence, or of
exposure, or of injuries untreated (the doctors are all or mostly
dead, and have no high-tech surgeries available), and so forth.

Yes, Bianca's strategy may be the best one--but its hardly original.
Even if it could work for a handful of people, 200,000,000 people are
going to be fighting for the privilege....


--- PPoint 1.78
 * Origin: Folcroft Sanitarium (hsmith@cure.com) (1:105/302.47)

Ä [18] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 123 of 143
 From : Marco Catalano                      2:2802/152.3    .ÿò 19 .íâ 96 12:36
 To   : Samantha Dobbs
 Subj : Space: Above & Beyond
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Hello Samantha!


Wednesday January 10 1996, Samantha Dobbs writes to Marco Catalano:

 SD> It's a great show!!

Indeed, Sam.
We've just seen the pilot and the first two "normal" shows here.
It looks very good, especially the computer generated parts are very well done.


Greetings from Marco
BYE!



... Line noise provided by Koninklijke PTT Nederland!

--- FMail/386 1.02
 * Origin: 61 Cygni. There's life Jim! But not as we know it. (2:2802/152.3)

Ä [18] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 124 of 143
 From : Rene Nieuwenhuizen                  2:512/5.9       .òp 23 .íâ 96 13:47
 To   : Samantha Dobbs
 Subj : Space: Above & Beyond
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.GIF: RENE
Hello Samantha!

10 Jan 96 11:40, Samantha Dobbs wrote to Rene Nieuwenhuizen:

 SD> It's a great show!!!

I've seen it four times since then and I just have to agree with you.
Great show with a different approach, I like it :-)

 SD> Sam...


Rene

--- FMail 1.02
 * Origin: I walk the maze of moments (2:512/5.9)

Ä [18] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 125 of 143
 From : Kay Shapero                         1:102/524       .òp 23 .íâ 96 11:06
 To   : Frank Glover
 Subj : Re: Star Trek
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Jan 21 23:26>, Frank Glover (1:2613/477) wrote to Channon Lang:

CL>  her
CL>   BOYFRIEND she left back on Earth, right?
 FG>
 FG>   Maybe I missed something all along, but isn't Captain Janeway
 FG>actually married to that guy?

I got that impression myself.

--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [18] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 126 of 143
 From : Don Dellmann                        1:154/40        .pä 24 .íâ 96 04:59
 To   : David Little
 Subj : star wars holiday special
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
While tripping merrily through the mail, David Little was overheard

 RT> SPECIAL??????????? I really want to see it cause it has the first
 RT> apperance of everyones favorite interplanetary assain !!!!!!!!!BOBA
 RT> FETT !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 RT> PLEASE respond if you can help.
 RT> thanx

 DL> Since there was no official release on to video, the only
 DL> place you can get it is probably a bootleg copy at a con somewhere. I'd
 DL> shy away from it if I were you...it's not a good show!

I have an LP "Christmas In The Stars" (RSO RS1-3093, 1980).
The only person actually from the films that appears is Anthony Daniels
as C3PO.  This is the LP with the minor hit "What Do You Get A Wookie
For Christmas (when he already has a comb)".

My question is, is there any connection between this album and the TV
special?

Don


... Yoda of Borg I am, assimilated you will be, futile is restance.
---
 * Origin: Anonymous BBS -=- Non plus Ultra -=- 414-251-2580 (1:154/40)

Ä [18] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 127 of 143
 From : James Walton                        1:129/260       .òp 23 .íâ 96 08:16
 To   : Brad Morgan
 Subj : Foundation Again
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 BM> Why can't I find the other 6 books? Back when the earth was
 BM> cooling, when the initial Star Wars came out, I remember
 BM> seeing all 9 books in the bookstore, but I haven't been able
 BM> to find the 1st or 3rd trilogy since...I have checked books
 BM> in print off and on during the years, but still, no
 BM> books...I'm starting to wonder if I was hallucinating way
 BM> back then...

No, you NEVER saw those other six books because Lucas never allowed them to be
written.  He wrote the original Star Wars novel from an idea he had, to get
money to finance his movie.  (I read that novel a full 2 years before the movie
came out.)

---
 * Origin: Up in James' Attic, (412)-431-2891,  (1:129/260)

Ä [18] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 128 of 143
 From : Rudy Hardy                          2:293/2602.24   .cê 14 .íâ 96 19:25
 To   : Frank Swarbrick
 Subj : Space: Above & Beyond Epi
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Hello Frank,

Thanks for your SAAB episode listing. Just another question: is it a good
series? I mean, are the episodes so cool that these Morgan & Wong wrote for The
X-Files?

Good Bye,

   Rudy.

--- GoldED/2 2.50
 * Origin: Senna Forever (2:293/2602.24)

Ä [18] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 129 of 143
 From : John Arnold                         3:632/103       .pä 17 .íâ 96 17:07
 To   : The Raven
 Subj : nuclear BS
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Hi Jack,

 TS>> TMI had no explosion.  Nuclear fuel is processed differently than
 TS>> weapons loads, and uses different isotopes.  No way it can happen

OK can I ask a silly question?
I know I can but will I get anything but a silly answer?
;-)

I saw a show the other night called The Cutting Edge: Nuclear Fallout.

They brought up a few scarey points.

Forgive the spelling as I tried to make notes as I watched the show.

I _think_ I've got the info about each place right but it might be a bit
mixed up...

Yaka Mountain Nevada.

Rocky Flats.

I got some of the info on these two mixed I think.

Both were weapons plants.  Rocky flats for making & Yaka Mountain for
disassemblely of weapons.

RF has the Putonium stored in plastic drums on site and there was 62
pounds of it found through out the plants air system...

Doesn't say safe operation to me...

YA is was a Pantex site for storage for 70,000 tones of waste? Putonium?
I'm not sure which it was now.  MLAS...
Its stored in 40 year old bunkers made to hold normal weapons...
Storage is in the form of 440 drums per bunker...
This site was hit by a minor earthquake in 1992 and is under the main
flight path for a local air base...
Not the smartest setup?

One of the sites has had 7.5 billion spent on it for clear up that
hasn't even scratched the surface of the problem...

Then there is a site at Carsberg?
Near old oil fields this site is 2,000 feet underground and has ten
miles of tunnels.  Two rooms have collapsed so far and the site costs
280 million a year to maintain.  This is a clean site at the moment
as they can't get the waste moved in for some reason.


Is seems silly to me to process more of this stuff when there doesn't
seem to be an agreed way to safely store the crap alreadly laying
around...

Can it be used in reactors in any way?
Seems silly to have 1,000s of tones of Plutonium sitting in bunkers
while more Uranium is mined and processed for feul rods...
If the reactors are so safe why not use it?

BFN,
    John.

--- Maximus/2 3.00
 * Origin: Decadence BBS (3:632/103)

Ä [18] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 130 of 143
 From : John Arnold                         3:632/103       .pä 17 .íâ 96 18:15
 To   : Mark Jones
 Subj : nuclear
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Hi Mark,

>Because you are a *de facto* proponent of continued fossil fuel use,
>since solar and wind power simply CAN'T SUPPORT a high-tech industrial
>civilization.  The energy simply isn't available.  So unless you
>propose to decimate the human population and go back to seventeeth
>century population and energy consumption levels, you DO support
>fossil fuel use (and all the deaths and illness it entails).  There
>are no alternatives except fossil fuels or nuclear power.

The thing that get me is that Solar CAN BE used for home use...
And it is't used as much as it should be.  Solar hot water can cut up to
65% off power needed to heat water...  If every house had solar hot
water services how much less fossil feuls would need to be burnt to
make electricity?  The same could be done for home lighting...
Even if it only generates enough power for a few light per home it still
going to cut 1,000s of tones of foossil fuels per year...

Solar isn't the answer.  Nothing is the answer.
Its got to be done in a way to limit the damage we do to the world.
The world is fighting back and we'll lose.  Look at the number of people
with asma these days.  It gets higher every year.  We're slowly killing
our selves...  We can't store nuclear waste safely.  We shouldn't
be adding to it...  Sure we'll live ok but what about our grandchildren
and their grandchildren?  Or is it just a case of bugger them as long
as I can live well?  Some one said something about solar costing too
much to use on a large scale...  Too much to setup solar satalites
and ground collector sites... How much when compared to the cost of
storing nuclear waste?

>You were trying to pretend that the destruction of Hiroshima and
>Nagasaki was on a par with what would happen in a nuclear power plant
>accident.  And that simply isn't the case.

No its not by a long shot...
How long will it be before the area around Ch     is safe for
people to come back to their homes and eat food grown in their gardens?
A shit load longer that it was the people of Hiroshima & Nagasaki I'll
bet!

>The city was about as thoroughly destroyed as then-current
>conventional weapons could possibly accomplish.  My point was that
>Dresden was as thoroughly annihilated as Nagasaki or Hiroshima--and
>that the dead were just as dead.

With the same rate of birth defects as the others two?

BFN,
    John.

--- Maximus/2 3.00
 * Origin: Decadence BBS (3:632/103)

Ä [18] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 131 of 143
 From : John Arnold                         3:632/103       .åò 18 .íâ 96 09:43
 To   : Ken Mayes
 Subj : Re: nuclear BS
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

>once the full impact of such an event hits their pocket
>book. I'm talking the expenses of relocating millions of
>people, refugee camps, the resultant economic collapse and
>the geniune fear of the unknown which will pervade the
>populace.
>        Protests at nuclear plants jumped after TMI. After an event of
>        this
>magnitude...and again the law of averages dictate that one
>will eventually happen...many plants will literally be
>stormed and workers killed by angry mobs. No senator or
>representative in his or her right mind will publicly
>advocate nuclear power in such a public opinion enviroment.
>The government will be forced to either shut down the
>nuclear industry or face a possible revolt. Guess which
>they'll choose. That's when the over-dependence will come
>into play. Shut those reactors down and you shut down the
>economy. We're talking major economic depression here. Mark
>my words. One major accident...kiss our way of life
>goodbye. The US will be lucky to emerge at the the level of
>a third world nation.

Not likely to happen.
People don't like nuclear and would screem and shout to have to plants
shut down.  A week without power and they would be at the gates
demanding they turn the plants back on....  People are too soft these
days and wouldn'r live without their TV, washing machine, dishwasher,
etc., etc....

The power generated by other means would all have to go into keeping
industry going.  Even they there would be a huge drop in the standard of
living...  People will not except the drop.  If they're told what it
will mean to their standard of living if the plants shut down most of
them would go away bitching about the goverment and blame it all on them
but wouldn't demand the plants be closed down...  Housing near them
might become really cheap but they would keep running....
;-)

BFN,
    John.

--- Maximus/2 3.00
 * Origin: Decadence BBS (3:632/103)

Ä [18] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 132 of 143
 From : Jerry Van Kooten                    2:280/901.37    .òp 23 .íâ 96 19:12
 To   : Otto Cordray
 Subj : The Guide and it's Incarnations...
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Hi Otto,

Quoting <Otto Cordray> to <Jerry Van Kooten> (21-Jan-96, 21:53:58)
Subject: <The Guide and it's Incarnations...>

 JVK>> The CDs contain the original radio broadcasts, twelve in total. The LPs
 JVK>> were recorded separately, and have a slightly altered story line. And,
 JVK>> as I have never ever heard these LPs... who has got (tape) copies???
 OC> I've never heard the LPs. The big difference (so I'm told) is that lots
 OC> of the music (Pink Floyd, etc. which had been used either totally without
 OC> permission or without authorization for sale of copies of the broadcasts)
 OC> was replaced with other stuff. I used to see copies of them in non-chain

That's the first thing I ever heard about the LPs besides the news of
their existance. You actually /see/ them once in a while in a record
store. No chance here, I'm afraid.

 OC> record stores occasionally, though usually too overpriced (at least for
 OC> my budget.)

What is 'overpriced'? I think I have about the same interpretation of
the word, but I mean of course, what /is/ the price?

 OC> I'm more interested in the radio broadcasts. I caught most of them back
 OC> in 1987 (the NPR station at Texas A&M played them) but I've misplaced the
 OC> tapes that I made.

Shame, listening the radio shows I like almost better than reading the books.
I can do you some copies of the CDs, which contain all radio original
broadcasts (that's what they tell you of course, but I don't see any
reason to doubt that). It's six tapes (twelve episodes). One episode
is slightly over 30 minutes, but I think it will fit on all 60-minutes
tapes. Let me know what you think. Maybe netmailing our addresses to
exchange tapes?

Have you heard about 'HHG - The Radio Shows'? They transcribed all the
radio shows, and added lots of fun notes, and included all the lines
that had to be cut out of the broadcast due to time limitations.

See you,
Jerry

--- Terminate 3.00/Pro
 * Origin: I'm only kidding. We're going to die after all. -- FP (2:280/901.37)

Ä [18] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 133 of 143
 From : Bianca Wesslak                      1:132/152       .îí 22 .íâ 96 16:49
 To   : Chip Griffin
 Subj : Re: nuclear
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
From a woman with an overactive imagination.

 CG> Batteries are a STORAGE facility.  It's like a tank of water ... if

 Yes I know that, that's why I was asking why all electricity would be gone
 batteries hold electricity.  Then again maybe I should've asked bout
 lightning.

 BW> Wave v2.12 [NR]   ! Origin: The Cereal Port BBS (OS/2) Rindge,NH
 CG> BTW I am originally from near Keene, NH ... know where Walpole is?

 nope don't live in new hampsher(for some reason can't remember how to spell
 that state.) got hold of cereal port from my fiance who went to college
 in that area.

 CG> Did you know there is a safe Nuclear power plant operating near where
 CG> you are! Vermont Yankee has a fairly good reputation in the industry.

 I live in the blast radias of seabrook.  Like I said before, I just don't
 like the idea of nuke energy.  INMHO not worth the risk.


... Madness takes it's toll - Please have correct change.
--- Blue Wave v2.12 [NR]
 * Origin: The Cereal Port BBS (OS/2) Rindge,NH 603-899-3335 (1:132/152)

Ä [18] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 134 of 143
 From : Bianca Wesslak                      1:132/152       .îí 22 .íâ 96 16:49
 To   : Chip Griffin
 Subj : Re: nuclear BS
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
From a woman with an overactive imagination.

 CG> Yes they do.  They block sites so people can't go in to work.  They
 CG> attack submarines trying to board them illegally.  We were taught in
 CG> the Navy to use hoses to keep them away, but if necessary we had
 CG> weapons (only a LAST resort).
 CG> They aim at corporations, but they effect us all.  You can't imagine
 CG> the level of security we have at our site (bomb detectors, metal
 CG> detectors, fences, motion sensors, cameras, etc etc etc) in large part
 CG> due to Greenpeace (and terrorists to a smaller degree).
 cG> Greenpeace IS a TERRORIST organization, their methods prove it!

 The methods that I am most familiar with in greenpeace are with the
 pacific northwest.  I was looking at their motivation to use those methods
 those are what I agree with.  They also have other methods basically buying
 mineral, developmental and other rights to peoples lands, which are legal.
 We at least have security to keep unwanted people away, who we deem a
 threat, the enviroment doesn't.  To me earth is a living entity, with
 conscious thought, and so are her creatures, all of them!  There has to
 be some motivation behind terrorists and if we can find why they are so
mad at us, then we are closer to a solution.  In some coutries terrorists
are heroes.

 CG> -!- MacKennel 2.2.1
 CG>  ! Origin: The Quarry: 860-889-6427 -- Amateur Radio & Mac User
 CG> (1:320/301.0)



... "Cult" is what the big church calls the little church.
--- Blue Wave v2.12 [NR]
 * Origin: The Cereal Port BBS (OS/2) Rindge,NH 603-899-3335 (1:132/152)

Ä [18] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 135 of 143
 From : Bianca Wesslak                      1:132/152       .îí 22 .íâ 96 16:49
 To   : Frank Glover
 Subj : nuclear
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
From a woman with an overactive imagination.

 BW>  Besides it's the only plan that I can think of.  The fall of
 BW>  electricity
 BW>  has on upside, a lot of the bombs that the military controls, won't
 BW>  be
 BW>  able to be set off.
 FG> Being military systems, they don't depend on the commercial power
 FG>

grid, either. Just as well. It would make the National Guard useless

 FG> in

power-disrupting disasters, otherwise.

 FG> Frank

But if it was an all out loss of electricty, which was the actual question
what would it matter if it was commercial or non commercial electricity???



... Just some extemporaneous personal communication.
--- Blue Wave v2.12 [NR]
 * Origin: The Cereal Port BBS (OS/2) Rindge,NH 603-899-3335 (1:132/152)

Ä [18] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 136 of 143
 From : Bianca Wesslak                      1:132/152       .îí 22 .íâ 96 16:49
 To   : Christian Raven
 Subj : Star Trek
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
From a woman with an overactive imagination.

 CR> @MSGID: 1:393/7@fido 30ff2449
 DJ> -> I must have some problems with my terminal, I almost thought you said
 DJ> -> "good" and "ST:Voyager" in the same sentence.  The captain is a
 DJ> -> woman, trying to be a man.  Now if she were a lesbian (which... who
 DJ> -> knows?) I might be able to take
DJ> That's really quite an idiotic statement.  Giving orders is not a
 DJ> defining characteristic of masculinity.
CR> really?  then what is?  femininty is just the opposite, and before
 CR> you go plundering into a losing argument, you should scan the
 CR> definition in your webster's... submissiveness, not agression, is one
 CR> of the "defining characteristics" as you so well put it, of the
 CR> feminine behavioral pattern.

Who wrote the webster dictionary??  What is the culture surrounding
when the editions are put out.  Gender and how it is viewed and defined is
a very complex, and subtle area.  also who  were the people to define
masculinity and femininty.  As a woman I will admit I am passive, but I am
also extremely aggressive.  I have met many men who are passive as well.
Are you so defined by what you term to be masculinity.  do you alway's
act aggresive.  Don't you have caring emotions?  Don't you love??

     Why would the captain have to be lesbian for you to buy her standing
 up for herself and acting powerful.  NOT all lesbians are butches.
I say she was acting feminine by being a mother figure as well.  How many
people does she have to worry about?  Make sure is safe?  Dicipline?



... Dream back the bison, sing back the swan.
--- Blue Wave v2.12 [NR]
 * Origin: The Cereal Port BBS (OS/2) Rindge,NH 603-899-3335 (1:132/152)

Ä [18] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 137 of 143
 From : Don Dellmann                        1:154/750       .pä 24 .íâ 96 22:09
 To   : Frank Swarbrick
 Subj : weird tv
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: FastEcho 1.45a 8060
While tripping merrily through the mail, Frank Swarbrick was overheard

 FS> I'm a big fan of "weird" tv shows and am trying to make a list of
 FS> shows that fit.  I've tried to list the years they aired and how many
 FS> seasons (or seasons so far).  Any corrections welcome.

 FS> So far I have the following:

 FS> The Twilight Zone (195?-196?) [??]
 FS> The Outer Limits (1963?-1964?) [2]

If your BBS carries "Memories", you may want to ask this question over
there, we have a few habitues who have reference material that can give you
exact data on all the shows you mention (years/stars/even what network they
were on).

Don
... Security, confine Ensign Swarbrick to the brig.
---
 * Origin: *YOPS ]I[* 3.1 GIG * RA/FD/FE RADist * Milwaukee, WI (1:154/750)

Ä [18] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 138 of 143
 From : Boris CDuke                         2:463/2.22      .ÿò 26 .íâ 96 00:50
 To   : Jerry Van Kooten
 Subj : Red Dwarf / TNG crossover
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Hi Jerry!

 JK >>  DL>> REDTREK.ZIP     29K     Red Dwarf meets the next generation
 JK >>  DL>> SMEG_GEN.ARJ    25K     Dwarf Trek - The Smeggy Generation

 JVK> Same price to call from Holland :-)

Could you uuencode it into 6-8kb pieces and send to me?

 JVK> My address is 2:280/901.37

 JVK> See you,
 JVK> Jerry

Bestest, Boris

 * Origin: Imagineering (2:463/2.22)

Ä [18] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 139 of 143
 From : Frank Swarbrick                     1:104/825       .îí 22 .íâ 96 19:29
 To   : Robert Lidgren
 Subj : AMERICAN GOTHIC
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12  92-0022
On 01-21-96  14:48 my Very Good Friend Robert Lidgren said:

 -> !!  I just finished watching the most recent episode of American
 -> Gothic, and WOW! do I like this show!  Up to this point it's been
 -> good, interesting, creepy, etc. but tonight's episode (called
 -> "Inhumanitas") was awesome.  For one thing, it was wonderful to see
 -> Sheriff Buck actually scared.  He may be the star, but you just love
 -> to see him lose.

 RL> That was a FIRST wasn't it?  This improves the dynamics of the show
 RL> because antagonists who simply never show any fear or insecurities
 RL> don't wash all that well.  When Sheriff Buck realized that things were
 RL> getting a bit farther out of his control than he had anticipated things
 RL> really started to heat up in that episode.

Glad to see another fan!  And you're exactly right.

 RL> American Gothic
 RL> Nowhere Man
 RL> Strange Luck

 RL> I wonder which ones will survive the on-going "shake-down?"

Hmm, I like all three.  But of the three I'd be least sad to see
Strange Luck gone.  Still, I'd rather see all of them survive.

        Frank

... Did I mention we're federal agents?
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12
 * Origin: The Bailey Information Exchange BBS, 28.8k v.fc  (1:104/825.0)

Ä [18] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 140 of 143
 From : Frank Swarbrick                     1:104/825       .îí 22 .íâ 96 23:00
 To   : All
 Subj : Nowhere Man/Prisoner
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12  92-0022
Heh heh.  Tonight's episode, "Heart of Darkness," had another Prisoner
tribute/referance.  Veil and others joined a kind of militia group,
and as recruits were given numbers to replace their names.  Veil was,
of course, Number 6!

Great episode, BTW.  One of the best so far.

        Frank

... Someone's at the door...
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12
 * Origin: The Bailey Information Exchange BBS, 28.8k v.fc  (1:104/825.0)

Ä [18] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 141 of 143
 From : Todd Sullivan                       1:202/720.3     .òp 23 .íâ 96 13:19
 To   : Chris Baugh
 Subj : LA water
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
While substituting for Q, Chris Baugh took extreme delight in saying to Nicolai
Shapero, "You'll do anything I say?"  Nicolai quailed when the words "LA water"
were uttered.

 CB> not come across any references to the aquaduct requiring electrical
 CB> pumping, but I have seen references to its being a gravity feed
 CB> system.  If you could point out a way I could go directly to the
 CB> source for information about the use of electricity in the aquaduct,
 CB> I'd enjoy learning that information.

You need not look it up.  For concrete, palpable evidence, a trip to the
Altamont Pass (Interstate 5) should do it.  There are a number of pumping
stations along the California Aqueduct to lift northern water over the pass and
deliver it to the San Fernado Valley.  An interesting sight, at the very least.

Oh, these pumping stations use electricity, as do those from the Colorado River
end of the Aqueduct.

Todd Sullivan

... Politically Correct:  He's metabolically challenged, Jim.

-*- ASTG 1.9

--- Spot 1.3a Unregistered
 * Origin: Todd's Spot in the Continuum (1:202/720.3)

Ä [18] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 142 of 143
 From : Shawn Merrow                        1:3407/14       .òp 23 .íâ 96 17:47
 To   : Samantha Dobbs
 Subj : Re: Space: Above & Beyond
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

-> I would love to talk about ALL or any of them!! If you want I have a
-> e-mail address... ac050@freenet.durham.org

Thanks for giving me youre E-Mail address, though the bad part is I
temoraly have no E-Mail access. What do you think about the episode
were Cooper did the assination mission?

--- QScan/PCB v1.16b / 01-0024
 * Origin:  (1:3407/14)

Ä [18] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 143 of 143
 From : Richard Sarner                      1:271/236       .pä 24 .íâ 96 10:25
 To   : Anders Danebo
 Subj : Re: Babylon 5
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE 1.11+
In a message to All <01-21-96 10:03> Anders Danebo wrote:

AD=> Anybody know where i can get a complete episode list over the
AD=> Babylon 5 series..And a similar list with episode descriptions...

If you have Internet access look at ftp.hyperion.com, I could see about placing
the files online at Journey of the Sorcerer, but it will take some time. Not to
mention a very long distance call.

...Richard

--- GEcho 1.11+
 * Origin: THE TIME MACHINE (804)599-6401 TRAVEL THE PORTALS! (1:271/236)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 1 of 285
 From : Robert Siemborski                   1:2604/214      .òp 23 .íâ 96 07:20
 To   : Stephen Adams
 Subj : Re: NOWHERE MAN
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 >Another thought just came into my little mind... :) Perhaps we're seeing a
 >shift in the focus of Tom's character. Instead of seeing him running around
 >as
 >a man gripped with paranoia, could we be seeing him bent on taking
 >*revenge*?

YES!  It seems that he has become definitaveally more agressive in the past 2
episodes!

- Rob -

--- SLMAIL v4.5a  (#1409)
 * Origin: Bits 'N Bytes BBS - Leonia, NJ - (201) 346-1661 - 28.8k Connections!
(1:2604/214)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 2 of 285
 From : Darren Lovatt                       2:201/190       .òp 23 .íâ 96 22:21
 To   : Jerry Van Kooten
 Subj : Red Dwarf / TNG crossover
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

JK >  JK >>  DL> REDTREK.ZIP     29K     Red Dwarf meets the next generation
JK >  JK >>  DL> SMEG_GEN.ARJ    25K     Dwarf Trek - The Smeggy Generation

JK >  DL> Give me the address to attach to and I'll put them on hold for you
JK >  My address is 2:280/901.37

I'll post them in the echo in two parts !

Watch for them !

/Darren



--- GEcho 1.00
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Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 3 of 285
 From : Kay Shapero                         1:102/524       .pä 24 .íâ 96 07:55
 To   : Don Dellmann
 Subj : Virtual Reality
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Jan 23 04:56>, Don Dellmann (1:154/40) wrote to Kay Shapero:

 KS> And if you think that was strange, read the Philip K. Dick short story

  KS> on which it was (very loosely) based "We Can Remember It For You
 KS> Wholesale".  As will surprise nobody familiar with Dick, it's far
 KS> weirder than the movie dared to get. :->

 DD>I thought I was the only one to notice that <G>.

PKD and his story were credited in the advertising for the movie back when it
first came out, and can be found in the credits.

--- msged 2.06
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 Msg  : 4 of 285
 From : Nicolai Shapero                     1:102/524       .pä 24 .íâ 96 19:10
 To   : Frank Swarbrick
 Subj : weird tv
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Jan 20 23:39>, Frank Swarbrick (1:104/825) wrote to All:

 FS>I'm a big fan of "weird" tv shows and am trying to make a list of
 FS>shows that fit.  I've tried to list the years they aired and how
 FS>many
 FS>seasons (or seasons so far).  Any corrections welcome.

You might want to add MAX HEADROOM, and WEIRD SCIENCE.

-- Nicolai Shapero, the Mad Russian Sysop of StormGate Aerie

--- msged 2.06
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Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 5 of 285
 From : David Johnston                      1:342/14        .òp 23 .íâ 96 00:08
 To   : Todd Sullivan
 Subj : Nuclear
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
-> ->> > Barring a complete collapse of our civilization, I imagine >
-> that ->> the purple trefoil will remain a good warning.  If it's ->>
-> Turkish people, and some Asian societies, shake their heasds when ->>
-> they mean 'yes' ->> It would not be hard to suppose that a purple
-> trefoil could be ->> interpreted as meaning...

-> DJ> Irrelevant.  Purple trefoils are a world-wide standard.

-> Not irrelevant; the point is that they are standards *now*.  In
-> (arbitrary) 100 years, "after the fall", they could have highly
-> religious significance.  The "Plane tribes" of Oceana make effigies
-> of C-47's still.

The expression was, "barring a complete collapse of our civilisation".
And if our civilisation completely collapses, we will have greater
issues than dangerous digging spots.

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 Msg  : 6 of 285
 From : David Johnston                      1:342/14        .òp 23 .íâ 96 00:08
 To   : Todd Sullivan
 Subj : Nowhere Man
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
-> DJ> Oh, I believe that conspiracies exist.  I just don't believe that
-> they DJ> can simultaneously be so omnipotent and incompetent at the
-> same time.
-> Hmmm.  History's full of them; all you have to do is look for them.
-> The CIA had a few laughable ideas as to get rid of Castro, and
-> they're about as omnipotent as you can get in this country.

If you say so.  I hadn't noticed.

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Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 7 of 285
 From : David Johnston                      1:342/14        .òp 23 .íâ 96 00:09
 To   : Stephen Adams
 Subj : Nowhere Man
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
-> DJ> Oh, I believe that conspiracies exist.  I just don't believe that
-> they can DJ> simultaneously be so omnipotent and incompetent at the
-> same time.
-> Let's not forget that Tom Veil is but ONE of the "erased" people that
-> The Conspiracy has to account for. We assume that there are actually
-> a great number of these "erased" people eluding them. What this means
-> is that The Conspiracy, therefore, must have some sort of bureaucracy
-> going that tries to keep track of them - hence, innate incompetency.

Which means they couldn't erase these people successfully in the first
place.

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Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 8 of 285
 From : David Johnston                      1:342/14        .òp 23 .íâ 96 01:13
 To   : Todd Sullivan
 Subj : Nowhere Man
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
-> DJ> Oh, I believe that conspiracies exist.  I just don't believe that
-> they DJ> can simultaneously be so omnipotent and incompetent at the
-> same time.
-> Hmmm.  History's full of them; all you have to do is look for them.
-> The CIA had a few laughable ideas as to get rid of Castro, and
-> they're about as omnipotent as you can get in this country.

Let me put it this way.  If they can successfully coerce his wife's
cooperation without him noticing, then there is no question that they
could deal with him, without bothering with this "erasure" nonsense.
It's not as if this is just an unique stunt carried off because his wife
was always an agent for them, because they have entire towns full of
erased people, while no one else even notices.  Why didn't they just
kill him?  Or take his wife hostage and threaten to kill her?  If they
can control everyone who knows him, why can't they control him?  The
only way it makes sense is if they are using magic, and he just happens
to be immune.

--- PCBoard (R) v15.21/100
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Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 9 of 285
 From : Brad Morgan                         1:342/63        .pä 24 .íâ 96 05:58
 To   : Frank Swarbrick
 Subj : American Gothic
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
FS->!!  I just finished watching the most recent episode of American
FS->Gothic, and WOW! do I like this show!  Up to this point it's been
FS->good, interesting, creepy, etc. but tonight's episode (called
FS->"Inhumanitas") was awesome.  For one thing, it was wonderful to see
FS->Sheriff Buck actually scared.  He may be the star, but you just love
FS->to see him lose.

I missed that one, Have to catch it in the re-runs....

FS->Anyway, I don't know how many of you all watch the show, but it seems
FS->to be getting better all the time.  Even if you watched the first
FS->episode or two and didn't like it, I'd recommend trying it again.  It
FS->just keeps getting better.  And I think I've finally found number
FS->five.  I've been trying to figure out my favorite five tv shows on the
FS->air currently.  Now I have Babylon 5, The X-Files, Homicide: Life on
FS->the Street, Due South, and American Gothic.

Only shows I make time to watch are DS9, X-files and Outer Limits on
friday, Voyoger on Mondays and North of 60 on thursday.

FS->If anyone wants to discuss AG I'd love to hear from you.  Oh, btw, I
FS->found an AG homepage.  http://www.cbs.com/ag.  The episode summaries
FS->aren't very good, but it has a long an interesting Q&A session with
FS->show creator Shawn Cassidy, executive producer Sam Raimi, and star
FS->Gary Cole.

Love to talk more about AG though!


---
 À SIG 3.0 [NR] À Pragmatism should never be confused with moderation.

 * SLMR 2.1a * Mary had a little RAM...Only about a MEG or so...
--- Renegade v10-05 Exp
 * Origin: The Ferret Farm BBs -403-457-3396- (1:342/63)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 10 of 285
 From : Jeff Hancock                        1:3600/7        .òp 23 .íâ 96 20:16
 To   : Star Hawk
 Subj : B5 -- Coincidence?
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

SH>  [>('course, for all I know, a black rose is a old story element,

SH>     I don't know about story element, but it's not unlikely.  Roses
SH>have been a romantic symbol, the color black a symbol of dark and/or
SH>evil intent; so naturally when the two are put together you have a
SH>ready made of dark/evil romance.

But are there really black roses, short of painting or wilting? ;-)

SH>Both B5 and Ranma 1/2 tapped into that background for different
SH>reasons.

Now I don't remember any good reason for B5 to have used that particular
element for the murderer, but since it's back on here in a few days,
maybe I'll see it this time.

And the Black Rose killer wasn't anything like Kodachi. ;)

SH>  [> Another anime I ran into had living starships... but again, not
SH>  [>even similiar in detail.
SH>     Again, no surprise...  Living ships have been part of SF/Fantasy

Y'know, I don't think I've run into them very often either.

SH>for a long time, although not common.  [The anime wouldn't have been
SH>Tenchi Muyo, would it? <g>]

No, it was a four-part SF story called MAPS that I've only seen the
first two of so far. The ship seemed metallic, was umpteen-stories high,
and the "brain" was an android in the form of (of course) an attractive
female. When the ship took damage, so did she with wounds erupting
"blood", then healing within a few minutes or so; although they didn't
show the ship self-repairing in a similiar fashion. The ship also
appeared to get blown in half (or at least two pieces) during the second
episode, but they never showed what happened to the android.

The people on the Anime echo seem to enjoy using the characters from
Tenchi Muyo in their messages, but I've yet to see it since it's not
available for rent and the videos were something like $25 or $30 for a
half hour of video. I don't really know much about it - your mention of
living ships in that is the first I've heard of such - so feel free to
describe it and let me know if it's worth the cost. ;)

-=-
 * Crazy-J * ... I bet Forrest Gump types in all CAPS.

--- SLMAIL v3.5C  (#1540)
 * Origin: Robotech þ Lake City's Music*Demo BBS þ [904] 758*9477 (1:3600/7)

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 Msg  : 11 of 285
 From : Frank Swarbrick                     1:104/825       .òp 23 .íâ 96 19:16
 To   : Robert Lidgren
 Subj : NOWHERE/X-FILES
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12  92-0022
On 01-21-96  14:38 my Very Good Friend Robert Lidgren said:

 RL> Some time ago there was talk of a cross-over episode between X-Files
 RL> and Picket Fences.  I was wondering, what do you think about a link
 RL> somehwere along the line between X-Files and Nowhere Man?

 RL> Now Nowhere Man is certainly not YET ain the same "league" as X-Files
 RL> but I wonder if anyone else has pondered the similarities.  Who knows,
 RL> maybe the conspirators in Nowhere Man are simply a less-competent
 RL> off-shoot of the people who tend to make Mulder's and Scully's lives
 RL> "interesting" (sort of a "second string!")

 RL> People disappear with little or no explanation in both series.
 RL> The mood of paranoia is common.
 RL> For some reason, neither set of protagonists are killed off despite
 RL> numerous opportunities to do so.
 RL> The inclusion of Paranormal phenomenon is present in both series.
 RL> Tom Veil is more of a "loner" but does get aid from people from time
 RL> to time - perhaps the Dean Stockwell character might be brought in more
 RL> often.

 RL> It's just a thought but I see some POTENTIAL for a cross-over episode
 RL> even though I realize these things happen pretty rarely and the
 RL> producers and networks would have to have some good reason for taking
 RL> such a chance.

I was about to dismiss this out of hand, but then I reconcidered.
While I doubt we'll ever see it, I could certainly picture it.  We can
say that the organization that the Smoking Man part of is the same one
that's after Veil.  Somehow Scully and Mulder could come upon information
that people's lives are being "erased" and perhaps find Veil's "file"
or whatever.

This actually is sounding better and better!  A shame it will never
happen.

        Frank

... Let them eat static!
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12
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Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 12 of 285
 From : Jon Helis                           1:3800/25       .îí 15 .íâ 96 15:17
 To   : Jon Glenn
 Subj : Re: NOWHERE MAN
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 -=> Quoting Jon Glenn to Stephen Adams <=-

 JG> Stephen posts in the sunlit world he believes is reality...

 SA> to think that Tom may act like he's just following someone else's plan
 SA> (the  unknown Insider's), feeling trapped at times. Tom will almost
 SA> *have* to use  the clues provided by, and play by the rules of, The
 SA> Insider (another  reason to my "yes" answer to one of your above
 SA> questions), or run the risk of
 SA> being turned in (by The Insider) as Grayson's (?) murderer.
 SA> Interesting character, this Tom Veil: paranoid man seeking revenge
 SA> under the  possible threat of blackmail.   :)

 JG> Then again, the picture may hold nothing at all. This
 JG> insider needed a tool to start killing his way to the top. Along comes
 JG> this photo of US troops doing something that they're not supposed to.
 JG> "Bingo" says the  insider, "I'll just make this poor shmuck's life hell
 JG> so that he'll be  looking for payback. Then I start giving him just
 JG> enough info start icing my compitition." On the other tentacle, the
 JG> insider might be a mole from another group who's trying to bring down
 JG> the first one. Same basic scenario, but a different motavation for the
 JG> insider. We still don't know how many  Conspiracies there are. For

The show has taken an interesting turn, since he now has that
portable computer filled with information.  We learned this week
that they don't want him dead, and the militia leader who tried
to have him killed ended up learning the hard way he should have
listened.

I liked all the references in this week's episode to the
Prisoner.  Calling Tom Number 6, and getting rid of Number 2.
I'm a big fan of the Prisoner, a show that Nowhere Man has alot
in common with.




... "We're all lifetakers and heartbreakers..." -- Damphousse
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

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 Msg  : 13 of 285
 From : Jon Helis                           1:3800/25       .îí 15 .íâ 96 15:22
 To   : Chris Myers
 Subj : Re: NOWHERE MAN
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 -=> Quoting Chris Myers to Stephen Adams <=-

 CM> Okay, I give up.  I (pardon me) have never heard of the show "Nowhere
 CM> Man" Is it on Fox or one of the other cable stations.  Everyone talks
 CM> about it so fondly, I'd like to take a look at it.

Nowhere Man airs on the United Paramount Network(UPN), the same
outfit that airs Star Trek:Voyager.  The show comes on after
Voyager on Monday nights.  I don't know if it is aired on any
non-UPN stations like Voyager is.  Check your listings for it.
If it isn't on in your area, I'm sure someone will be glad to
send you videos of it.  Just ask in the Echo.






... There Is No Intelligent Life Here! They Are Using Windows
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

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 Msg  : 14 of 285
 From : Jon Helis                           1:3800/25       .îí 15 .íâ 96 15:24
 To   : Robert Lidgren
 Subj : Re: NOWHERE/X-FILES
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 -=> Quoting Robert Lidgren to All <=-

 RL>
 RL> Some time ago there was talk of a cross-over episode between X-Files
 RL> and Picket Fences.  I was wondering, what do you think about a link
 RL> somehwere along the line between X-Files and Nowhere Man?

I'd like to see the X-Files/Kolchak The Night Stalker crossover
that was being talked about on this echo several months back.


... "What's this fish doing in my ear?" - Arthur Dent
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

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 Msg  : 15 of 285
 From : Jon Helis                           1:3800/25       .îí 15 .íâ 96 15:30
 To   : Jerry Van Kooten
 Subj : Re: The Guide and it's In
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 -=> Quoting Jerry Van Kooten to Otto Cordray <=-

 JVK> Hi Otto,

 JVK> Quoting <Jerry Van Kooten> to <Otto Cordray> (19-Jan-96, 21:40:50)
 JVK> Subject: <The Guide and it's Incarnations...>

 JVK> Oh, another one. Have you played the (text only) adventure game?
 JVK> It's said Adams himself re-wrote some of the story line to make it
 JVK> more interesting to play as a game.

I played it back when I had a brand new Commodore C-128
computer(I'm dating myself,huh?).  It was difficult, but
frustrating game.

Adams did rewrite the storyline a little to make it more
interesting as a game, and more challenging, even to those who
knew the book backwards and forwards.

The radio scripts were also written by Adams.  He added alot of
material to them to make them more intersiting as a radio show
too.  What some people don't understand is that books, radio,
and TV are very different media, and sometimes, changes are
necessary to make one able to translate to the other.







... Back up my hard disk? I can't find the reverse switch!
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

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Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 16 of 285
 From : Gary Warren                         1:382/92.7      .pä 24 .íâ 96 18:11
 To   : Tommy Kellerman
 Subj : UFO
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On (21 Jan 96) Tommy Kellerman wrote to All...


 TK> About 7 P.M., the 'object' headed west, so maybe some of you guys will
 TK> catch
 TK> a glimpse as well?


Maybe this was when the latest space shuttle flight was heading back home?
If not, better put in a call to Scully or Mulder's cell phone!  ;D


glw


... I am Starship Security, I stand between certain death and a commercial

--- PPoint 1.90
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Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 17 of 285
 From : Jon Helis                           1:3800/25       .îí 15 .íâ 96 19:01
 To   : Dean Sweatman
 Subj : Re: Of interest to human
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Thanks for the Coast Con information.  Not sure if I'll be able
to make it yet, just have to wait and see.

73,

Jon


... (hic) BWave 2.10 (hic) BWave 2.10 * My computer is drunk ...
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

--- PCBoard (R) v15.22/M 10
 * Origin: * DataCom BBS - Baton Rouge, La. -  (504)275-2605 - @dcbbs.com *
(1:3800/25)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 18 of 285
 From : Frode Lindblom                      2:210/28.1      .îí 22 .íâ 96 17:46
 To   : ALL>39:220/105.0
 Subj : BattleTech! Help!! =/
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
I was watching the cartoon/VR of BATTLETECH on TCC, but it dosent go in the
weekends anymore. Can someone tell me when it's on. If not can you tell me how I
might enquier it. (European version on VHS)

--- EXCELSIOR! BBS v1.21j; XMAIL! v1.87
 * Origin: Faster Than Light BBS (2:210/28.1)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 19 of 285
 From : Dean Sweatman                       1:396/40        .åò 25 .íâ 96 15:46
 To   : Jon Helis
 Subj : Re: Of interest to human
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: InterEcho 1.12 6E010867

-=> Quoting Jon Helis to Dean Sweatman <=-

 JH> Thanks for the Coast Con information.  Not sure if I'll be able
 JH> to make it yet, just have to wait and see.

Looks interesting from a distance but Jr still lurks on the edge of my memory.
Not that C-C Jr was a bad con but the best time I had at the Con was when we
left it for dinner and drinks.

Fiawol


... E-mail: When it absolutely has to get lost at the speed of light.

___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20 [NR]


--- InterEcho 1.12
 * Origin: REUNION BBS, Harahan, La., USA (504) 738-5162 Try God (1:396/40)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 20 of 285
 From : Owen E. Oulton                      1:243/45        .pä 24 .íâ 96 14:49
 To   : Frank Glover
 Subj : Re: Star Trek
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 FG>    Maybe I missed something all along, but isn't
 FG> Captain Janeway actually married to that guy?
 FG>

Mark?  No, not acording to the dialogue in Caretaker.  Remember, he went by her
place to pick up the dog bed so the pregnant pooch could stay at his place.
With the Transporter network so prevalent that StarFleet cadets can zip from San
Francisco to New Orleans or marseilles pretty much at whim, it's unlikely that a
married couple would maintain separate residences.

CFN, O

--- Maximus 2.01wb
 * Origin: Pandora's Box, Ottawa, Ont. 613-829-1209 (1:243/45)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 21 of 285
 From : Owen E. Oulton                      1:243/45        .pä 24 .íâ 96 15:02
 To   : Ecarey
 Subj : NUCLEAR
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 E> Dislike of the term "mutation" here to describe cancer seems to be founded
 E> on the mistaken belief that "mutations" must be caused by radiation,

I think the confusion here is that cancer is a mutation of individual cells
within an organism, rather than a genetic mutation (which also, of course,
occurs in an individual cell, that cell being a spermatozoon or ovum) causing a
change in the offspring of the organism.

Stan Lee has much to answer to in this regard.  Just consider it a legacy of
those Merry Marvel Mutants.  Excelsior!

CFN, O

--- Maximus 2.01wb
 * Origin: Pandora's Box, Ottawa, Ont. 613-829-1209 (1:243/45)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 22 of 285
 From : Phill Ash                           1:275/160       .åò 25 .íâ 96 09:42
 To   : Jerry Van Kooten
 Subj : .ystertags...
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE 1.11+

 JVK> Browsing through a lot, I mean a /lot/ of messages, I was pressing the
 JVK> Delete key too quickly, when I say two dots on a capital O. That can
 JVK> only mean one thing...

 PA>  þ Ùystertags v1.1 þ And this is what my friends all mean by Del Rio's
 PA> song

 JVK> Yes! The BÙC... I know, wrong area, but could you please tell me what
 JVK> the Ùystertags v1.1 is? Any other BÙC interests (tapes, maybe)?

        Ôystertags is a tagline file that I worked-up over the Xmas
        doldrums... I took every lyric to every BÙC song ('cept "Wings of
        Mercury") and formatted 'em into 70character taglines.  It's
        version 1.1 because I'm still going back through and correcting
        the spelling errors and all.  I think there're about 1500 tags
        in the file (70k).  If ya got an Internet address, I'll zing you
        a copy.

        Lessee... I've got just about everything they've put out except
        "Live NY '72", Buck's solo album "Flat Out" and Joey's new
        group's self-titled "Brain Surgeons".  I also don't have the
        *latest* compilation set (not 'Cult Classics', the newer
        one...), but I do have the "Bad Channels" soundtrack and the
        "Live '76" cd and video.

        My handle on the Beast's Lair is "Thanatos" from (of course)
        "The Reaper" and I'm teaching my 3year-old son to sing
        "Godzilla" in the shower.

                Any other questions?  =)


thanatos@infi.net
... Pay me.  I'll be your surgeon... I'd like to pick your brain
---
 * Ùystertags v1.1 *
~~~ ReneWave v1.01 [NR]
--- Smile :)
 * Origin: * The Beast's Lair * (804)498-3070 * Va Beach VA * (1:275/160)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 23 of 285
 From : Karen Rodgers                       1:202/1313      .åò 25 .íâ 96 14:37
 To   : Trevor Pack
 Subj : X-files
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 -=> Quoting Trevor Pack to Marco Catalano <=-

 TP> yeah, i saw that one it was cool. tonight they are showing the one
 TP> with a  genetic sewer monster fron Russia.

 Is that one from second season?  I'm an occational X-Files watcher, and am
 not entirely sure of the timeline.

 Karen

... Catch the Blue Wave!
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

--- GrayQwkMail 2.1
 * Origin: Written Worlds BBS - 619.697.4073 (1:202/1313)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 24 of 285
 From : Chris Ogniben                       1:2604/568      .pä 24 .íâ 96 12:31
 To   : Channon Lang
 Subj : Re: X-files
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

   Well i will admit, that even insects bug me also.  There is always
that feeling, when a bug walks into your room, and is a cock roach.  Or
a spider, or flies.  Now flies i am not afraid of.  But, they are
disgusting boucning off your head as they fly around the room, since
you don't know where they have been before.  But, maybe your right
about the factor going down to an area, where bugs love it, which is
the tropics.  I bet it would be hard to really live around all them
bugs down there, but, the only reason taht people are afraid of the
insects, and their world.  Since that they are different from us,
without having organs that we use in order to be alive.  I just always
wonder how insects can be alive, without a beating heart, and breathing
lungs.  It's just part of being interested in finding those answers in
bugs.  But, hey did you see in that episode that hot looking chick,
that enjoyed learning about cock raoches..  I bet she must not have a
life with men, to be busy with studing those dirty bugs.


--- WM v3.11/93-0947
 * Origin: Waterside BBS - NJ - (201) 641-5375 28.8k  (1:2604/568)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 25 of 285
 From : Chris Ogniben                       1:2604/568      .pä 24 .íâ 96 12:34
 To   : Frank Swarbrick
 Subj : Re: SLIDERS/ANY NEWS?
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

   Holy cow, your right.  VR 5 is like not around.  They got rid of
MANTIS and VIPER remember those?  And now they got rid of
SEAQUEST!!!!!!   It makes sense, since every other week i am waiting to
see another episode of the new SEAQUEST.  And now all i get is just
other junk.  And i hear from you that it's been cancelled.  Well, all i
can say is that, it was going to happen sooner or later.


--- WM v3.11/93-0947
 * Origin: Waterside BBS - NJ - (201) 641-5375 28.8k  (1:2604/568)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 26 of 285
 From : Chris Carter                        1:105/290.23    .åò 25 .íâ 96 03:45
 To   : Chris Ogniben
 Subj : Nuclear
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On (23 Jan 96) Chris Ogniben wrote to Chris Carter...

 CO> I just find this to be a very disturbing conversation.

You mean the one under the subject 'nuclear,' right?

 CO> Since you people are laughing about this.  Cancer is a very
 CO> serious disease, and you are both in the same world as we are,
 CO> to face this disease.  And to make fun of people, using this
 CO> disease, or to make fun of the people that suffer from this
 CO> deadly disease, that you are both not human, since you are
 CO> treating people without respect.

An interesting flame.  Not entirely original, but interesting.

 CO> And i think you should apologize to everyone in here, and to
 CO> those people that suffer from this illness, to make up for
 CO> what you said here.

So unlike thousands of comedians who make jokes at the expense of
others, I must be held to a particular standard.

Is it because you think I'm the producer of the X-Files, or merely
because you may be possessed of a 'holier than thou' complex?

I have two things to say following on the heels of the quoted rant
above.

1)  Mr. Ogniben, start *quoting* messages.  Since conversations in
this echo do not occur in real time, context can be lost when you
don't quote pertinent text from the message you're replying to.  To
be quite honest, I don't recollect making the joke you accuse me of
making.  Perhaps if you'd quoted it back to me, I'd know what the
Hell you were talking about.

2)  The only reason I'm answering this message is because it was
addressed directly to me.  In general, I ignore your messages,
primarily because of the reason stated in the previous paragraph.
It has become evident that merely ignoring you will be inadequate.
Hence, I'll introduce you to my twit filter.

*plonk*  (For those who just joined our program, "plonk" is the
sound of someone hitting a killfile or twit filter.)

To all others who may read this message, I apologize; not for the
comments I allegedly made in regard to cancer, (my sign) but for the
contents of this post.

Chris - carter@teleport.com


... "If you're a camel, you soon learn to put up with anything."

--- PPoint 2.00
 * Origin: Grid Epsilon Coords. 105x290x23 (1:105/290.23)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 27 of 285
 From : David Johnston                      1:342/14        .åò 25 .íâ 96 00:09
 To   : Chris Ogniben
 Subj : Nuclear
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
-> No your wrong big time.  We wouldn't be able to clobber them.  Not
-> if they were like the Gem Hadar in STAR TREK.  So, beleive me, the

It isn't physical strength that provides such beings with an advantage.

--- PCBoard (R) v15.21/100
 * Origin: Freddy's Place - Edm. AB - 28.8K (403) 456-4241 (1:342/14)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 28 of 285
 From : David Johnston                      1:342/14        .åò 25 .íâ 96 00:58
 To   : Chris Ogniben
 Subj : Megaspoiler - Exogenesis
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
-> I don't understand why people post SPOLIER's in here, if they thing
-> that anyone else would want to find out things, way before the new
-> episode shows up.  It would probably be best for everyone, to just
-> not talk about anything for the upcoming new episodes of any sci fi
-> series, until you all seen it.

Bad news.  No matter how long you wait, there is never any guarantee
that all people will have seen it.  More to the point, I like to read
about and discuss an episode right after I've seen it, and this is not
unusual.

--- PCBoard (R) v15.21/100
 * Origin: Freddy's Place - Edm. AB - 28.8K (403) 456-4241 (1:342/14)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 29 of 285
 From : David Johnston                      1:342/14        .åò 25 .íâ 96 01:03
 To   : Tommy Kellerman
 Subj : Ufo
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
-> Tonight, about 6 P.M. CMT (Central Meridian Time) I was on my way
-> home from the bus-station when I noticed a strange-looking "star" in
-> the curtain of night. No clouds were about, and no moon shone.
-> Imagine a bright star, like Venus, and triple the brightness.
-> This was the object I saw. It hovered on about 400 meters and was
-> about 4 km away. I haven't seen anything quite like it. No airplane
-> or heli could turn and accelerate like this thing! I felt like I was
-> in an episode of the X-Files or something! Completely weird. But
-> there was no camera around. And no, I was NOT under any kind of
-> influence, for anybodys info.

First of all, you didn't tell what city you saw it in.  As for what you
saw, I've got to point something out:
   If it looked like a star, there is no way at all that you could
estimated how far it was away, except by guessing based on it's apparent
movement.  Given the instant acceleration you describe, it sounds like
some kind of reflection or diffraction in the atmosphere.

--- PCBoard (R) v15.21/100
 * Origin: Freddy's Place - Edm. AB - 28.8K (403) 456-4241 (1:342/14)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 30 of 285
 From : Marco Catalano                      2:2802/152.3    .òp 23 .íâ 96 19:27
 To   : Trevor Pack
 Subj : X-files
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Hello Trevor!


Friday January 19 1996, Trevor Pack writes to Marco Catalano:

 TP> yeah, i saw that one it was cool. tonight they are showing the one with a
 TP> genetic sewer monster fron Russia.

Was that an early show, Trevor?
I can remember something about a monster that escaped from a Russian ship.
The ship carried nuclear waste from Chernobyl, and caused some weird mutation.
There was a guy, I think a sewage-worker, that got bit by this thing. And he got
infected and died, but not before a little monster bursted out of his stomach!
Reminded me of Alien.



Greetings from Marco
BYE!



... NO! Don't pick up that pho%^*#)@!)*  NO CARRIER

--- FMail/386 1.02
 * Origin: Outpost 173, near Borg territory. (2:2802/152.3)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 31 of 285
 From : Frank Glover                        1:2613/477      .åò 25 .íâ 96 21:02
 To   : Brad Morgan
 Subj : Re: Star Trek Comics
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

BM>  FG->   There's a major crossover series coming, but actually merging?
BM>  Not
BM>  FG->to my knowledge.
BM>
BM>  FG->   Frank
BM>
BM>  They have been doing crossovers for at least 20
BM>  yrs...Superman/Spiderman, for starters...

  I know. I have that first one. But as I mentioned, there's a major crossover
series coming. It was featured in USA Today a few weeks back.

   Frank


--- QuickBBS 2.80 GoldBase (Zeta-1)
 * Origin: The Matrix Data Bank BBS, Rochester, Ny (1:2613/477)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 32 of 285
 From : Frank Glover                        1:2613/477      .åò 25 .íâ 96 21:07
 To   : David Johnston
 Subj : Re: Star Trek Comics
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

DJ>  For one week, as part of the crossover, 12 issues will be printed
DJ>  under
DJ>  the "Amalgam" imprint.  It will include "Bruce Wayne, Agent of
DJ>  Shield",
DJ>  "Super-Soldier", "Spider-Boy", "JLX", and "Doctor Strangefate", along
DJ>  with other concepts hybridised between the two companies.

   Not the one I had in mind. What I read of involved the heroes as we know
them, with several different one-on-one encounters, and definite winners and
losers.

   Frank


--- QuickBBS 2.80 GoldBase (Zeta-1)
 * Origin: The Matrix Data Bank BBS, Rochester, Ny (1:2613/477)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 33 of 285
 From : Frank Glover                        1:2613/477      .åò 25 .íâ 96 21:09
 To   : Don Dellmann
 Subj : Re: VIRTUAL SEX
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

DD>   FG> And more to your point is `Total Recall.' What indeed if
DD>  youcould
DD>   FG> submerge an old personality and set of memories under a new
DD>  one...and
DD>   FG> the new one upon learning of this, still seeks to preserve his
DD>  own
DD>   FG> identity? (If you saw the movie, the scene where Arnie's
DD>  character is
DD>   FG> pursuaded that all his experiences prior to, and on Mars were
DD>  the
DD>   FG> virtual experience he'd asked for [and even I was having
DD>  doubts], was
DD>   FG> ripped off...er, *borrowed* in a recent ST:Voyager episode where
DD>  the
DD>   FG> Doctor is having similar things happen to him...)
DD>
DD>  Which sounds suspiciously like a 1966 Phillip K. Dick short story
DD>  "We Can Remember It For You Wholesale"

   Uh, yeah. `Total Recall' *was* an adaptation of that story....

  Frank


--- QuickBBS 2.80 GoldBase (Zeta-1)
 * Origin: The Matrix Data Bank BBS, Rochester, Ny (1:2613/477)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 34 of 285
 From : Frank Glover                        1:2613/477      .åò 25 .íâ 96 22:21
 To   : Chris Ogniben
 Subj : Re: X-files
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

CO>     Though it was a very interesting idea, for aliens to use bugs as
CO>  little robots to observe earth, that i find it to be stupid idea
CO>  also.
CO>  Since, it deals with bugs, why not just use something else, like a
CO>  bird, or a bigger animal.

   Less obvious, perhaps? A robot deer (no matter how realistic) would stand out
in the White House, NASA mission control, NORAD HQ, etc. But we kind of expect
to see the occasional insect withoug getting suspicous....

   Maybe (rather like the real things) they lend themselves betterto mass
production as well.

   Frank


--- QuickBBS 2.80 GoldBase (Zeta-1)
 * Origin: The Matrix Data Bank BBS, Rochester, Ny (1:2613/477)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 35 of 285
 From : Frank Glover                        1:2613/477      .åò 25 .íâ 96 22:38
 To   : Kay Shapero
 Subj : Re: Star Trek
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

KS>  anthropologists and the like influenced by the assumption that male
KS>  achievement is the most important, they will study history and other
KS>  cultures from the point of view of the male, and dismiss the female
KS>  as secondary.  Which produces warped results when local society
KS>  involves a male's portion and a female's portion, each independantly
KS>  run by the members thereof and interacting as a group.

   Just for my curiosity, have you read (and if so, what did you think of) David
Brin's `Glory Season?"

   I just finished it today....

   Frank


--- QuickBBS 2.80 GoldBase (Zeta-1)
 * Origin: The Matrix Data Bank BBS, Rochester, Ny (1:2613/477)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 36 of 285
 From : Dean Sweatman                       1:396/1030      .ÿò 26 .íâ 96 16:08
 To   : Jon Helis
 Subj : Crescent City Con '96
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12  93-0696
- Area: PRIVATEInter ---------------------------------------------------------
  Msg#: 2693            Pvt Rec'd                    Date: 01-26-96  03:56
  From: Conmagic@aol.com                             Read: Yes    Replied: No
    To: Dean Sweatman                                Mark:
  Subj: Re: Hi Robert and Annie
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: ConMagic@aol.com
To: dean.sweatman@btower.com
Date: Fri, 26 Jan 1996 03:56:15 -0500
Subject: Re: Hi Robert and Annie

ps. Crescent City Con XI has finally been given the go ahead.
The dates are August 2-3-4 1996. Could you please help get
out the word  thanks--Robert and Ann

... A social life?  What board can I download THAT from?

___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20 [NR]

--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12
 * Origin: Black Tower BBS!  (1:396/1030.0)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 37 of 285
 From : Nicolai Shapero                     1:102/524       .åò 25 .íâ 96 06:37
 To   : John Arnold
 Subj : nuclear
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
This subject has been declared off topic.  Please return to the topic of this
conference (science fiction and science fiction fandom) in future posts.

Thank you for your cooperation,

-- Nicolai Shapero, Moderator of the SFFAN echo

--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 38 of 285
 From : Nicolai Shapero                     1:102/524       .åò 25 .íâ 96 06:39
 To   : Bianca Wesslak
 Subj : Re: nuclear
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
This subject has been declared off topic.  Please return to the subject matter
of this conference (science fiction and science fiction fandom) in future posts.

Thank you for your cooperation,

-- Nicolai Shapero, Moderator of the SFFAN echo

--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 39 of 285
 From : Kay Shapero                         1:102/524       .åò 25 .íâ 96 09:12
 To   : Owen E. Oulton
 Subj : Re: Star Trek
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Jan 23 00:56>, Owen E. Oulton (1:243/45) wrote to Kay Shapero:

 OE>Uh, Kay, did you mean that you're happy with your gender, or are
 OE>you trying to embarrass Nicolai in public?

Nope, just a bit of a linguistic purist.

To quote the late Isaac Asimov "Nouns have gender.  People have sex." :->

--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 40 of 285
 From : Otto Cordray                        1:106/1393      .ÿò 26 .íâ 96 19:39
 To   : Jerry Van Kooten
 Subj : The Guide and it's Incarnations...
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
By overpriced, I mean in the neighborhood of $20 per LP and there were either
two or three LPs (definitely HHG on one LP by itself; I'm not sure if
'Restaurant' and 'Life' were each on a separate LP or if they were crammed
onto one...as I said, its been a while since I've seen them.)

I'd love to get copies of the broadcasts. Maybe we can do a swap. Attach your
netmail address and I'll e-mail you as soon as I get a replacement address
for my current one; the BBS it was through seems to have died.

Otto

--- Maximus/2 3.01
 * Origin: The Round Table, BBS of Gulf Coast Mensa * 922-1393 (1:106/1393)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 41 of 285
 From : Robert Siemborski                   1:2604/214      .åò 25 .íâ 96 18:40
 To   : Kay Shapero
 Subj : Re: Babylon 5
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 >... "Who ARE you!!!" "I may or may not be Garibaldi. First, who are YOU?"

But shouldn't he know, after all, hasn't Garibaldi ALWAYS been here?

;-)

- Rob -

--- SLMAIL v4.5a  (#1409)
 * Origin: Bits 'N Bytes BBS - Leonia, NJ - (201) 346-1661 - 28.8k Connections!
(1:2604/214)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 42 of 285
 From : Robert Siemborski                   1:2604/214      .åò 25 .íâ 96 18:41
 To   : Anders Danebo
 Subj : Re: Babylon 5
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 >Anybody know where i can get a complete episode list over the complete
 >Babylon 5 series..And a similar list with episode descriptions...
 >If you can find a recent update of The British SF Logbook then let me know
 >where to find it...I need one fast...

The lurker's guide if you have WWW access:

http://www.hyperion.com/lurk

Don't know the EXACT URL, but it is listed on the main page.

- Rob -

--- SLMAIL v4.5a  (#1409)
 * Origin: Bits 'N Bytes BBS - Leonia, NJ - (201) 346-1661 - 28.8k Connections!
(1:2604/214)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 43 of 285
 From : Robert Siemborski                   1:2604/214      .åò 25 .íâ 96 18:43
 To   : Channon Lang
 Subj : Re: Babylon 5's sex scenes
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 > Well, I know this much....I'm tired of reruns!!!!
 >
 > When are they gonna do something new?

This week is the last of the re-runs with: Passing through Gesoname (spelled
wrong, of course).  That's the one where the Black Rose killer rediscovers his
other (better? <evil grin>) half.

After that, it's new episodes with the one with the funniest line in the series
to date, blah, blah.... Supposed to be a BIG arc episode.

It's about time.

- Rob -


--- SLMAIL v4.5a  (#1409)
 * Origin: Bits 'N Bytes BBS - Leonia, NJ - (201) 346-1661 - 28.8k Connections!
(1:2604/214)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 44 of 285
 From : Robert Siemborski                   1:2604/214      .åò 25 .íâ 96 18:48
 To   : Chris Ogniben
 Subj : Re: vicotry!
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 >will prove that Voyager and a shuttle craft.  And the reason why no
 >federation ships can ever go warp 10 or passed it.  And all i have to
 >say for those people that say that they can go passed it.  That, now
 >you can eat those words, since next week's new episode will show the
 >proof that no star ship can go warp 10.  And i also would like to see
 >the reason why again.  Since i know this is going to shut up all those
 >people that been stating that it was possible to go warp 10 and faster.

But acording to the STTNG Technical Manual, it takes infinate energy (by the TNG
standards) to go Warp 10, so the episode shouldn't even be possible. The
technical manual even goes far enough to say that even Q can't achieve warp 10.
I think that someone should have the writer check his Technical Manual, or are
the scales for Voyager different from the warp scales in TNG?

However, in TOS, The enterprise did go Warp 14.5 in one episode.  That is
mentioned in the Technical Manual.  But it said that the scale had been changed
since then.

It's there for anyone to see.

- Rob -

--- SLMAIL v4.5a  (#1409)
 * Origin: Bits 'N Bytes BBS - Leonia, NJ - (201) 346-1661 - 28.8k Connections!
(1:2604/214)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 45 of 285
 From : Rod Mammitzsch                      1:250/1066      .åò 25 .íâ 96 17:24
 To   : Channon Lang
 Subj : Re: canadian stuff
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

CL>  RM> the show!  After all isn't the CN tower in the opening credits!
CL>
CL>  Hubby and I went to Toronto for part of our Honeymoon trip. Do they
CL> still
CL>  take you to Jupiter? It was nice traveling to another planet for a
CL> Honeymoon.
CL>  And to think we were just gonna stop in Niagra Falls....

        Yes I think they still have that trip...they also have a "laser tag"
game down there as well.  Niagra Falls is nice but Jupiter is better!  :)

--- Xenolink 1.981
 * Origin: The Phantasmagoria - Horror, SF & Fantasy since 1987 (1:250/1066)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 46 of 285
 From : Owen E. Oulton                      1:243/45        .ÿò 26 .íâ 96 14:15
 To   : Bianca Wesslak
 Subj : nuclear
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 BW> But if it was an all out loss of electricty, which was the actual question
 BW> what would it matter if it was commercial or non commercial electricity???

Bianca, the situation you posit shows that you have as little understanding of
electricity as you do of nuclear power.

The only way you could have a total, non-restorable, loss of electricity would
be if there were a fundamental change in the laws of physics.  In this case,
everyone would be dead, since life itself is an electrochemical process.

Now, can we *ALL* drop this bloody stupid debate and get back to discussing SF?

O

--- Maximus 2.01wb
 * Origin: Pandora's Box, Ottawa, Ont. 613-829-1209 (1:243/45)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 47 of 285
 From : Frank Swarbrick                     1:104/825       .åò 25 .íâ 96 20:17
 To   : Rudy Hardy
 Subj : Space: Above & Beyond Epi
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12  92-0022
On 01-14-96  19:25 my Very Good Friend Rudy Hardy said:

 RH> Hello Frank,

 RH> Thanks for your SAAB episode listing. Just another question: is it a
 RH> good series? I mean, are the episodes so cool that these Morgan & Wong
 RH> wrote for The X-Files?

In my opinion, no.  The M&W X-Files eps are far superior to anything
that SAAB has done.  I think this is less the result of poor writing
than it is that with the premise of Space it's harder to come up with
interesting stories.  Actually, I think it's more that it's harder to
make the characters interesting.  All of them seem to be much too
cliche.  It seems to be getting better, though.  I'm certainly not
saying that good stories can't be written for the show.  There have
been some pretty good ones, just not most of them.  We'll see...

        Frank

... The Truth Is Out There -- The X-Files
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12
 * Origin: The Bailey Information Exchange BBS, 28.8k v.fc  (1:104/825.0)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 48 of 285
 From : Frank Swarbrick                     1:104/825       .åò 25 .íâ 96 20:19
 To   : Brion Lienhart
 Subj : weird tv
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12  92-0022
On 01-23-96  16:06 my Very Good Friend Brion Lienhart said:

 BL> On Sat Jan 20, Frank Swarbrick said to All:
 BL> [ ... ]
 -FS>The X-Files (1993- ) [3]
 -FS>The [new] Outer Limits (1994- ) [2]
 -FS>VR.5 (1995) [1]
 -FS>Nowhere Man (1995- ) [1]
 -FS>American Gothic (1995- ) [1]

 -FS>Anyway, what other "weird" tv shows are out there?

 BL> Is there some reason you left off Strange Luck?

Brain lapse?  Honestly, I just didn't think of it at the time I made
the list.  I would have to say that it definately belongs.

        Frank

... Let them eat static!
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12
 * Origin: The Bailey Information Exchange BBS, 28.8k v.fc  (1:104/825.0)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 49 of 285
 From : Glenn Shaheen                       1:3600/7        .òp 23 .íâ 96 18:24
 To   : Kay Shapero
 Subj : Star Trek
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
climateclimate

KS>Which I find very hard to believe - no matter how you tilt the axis,

Unless it's like Venus, which has an almost constant surface temperature
of 455 degrees Celsius due to the greenhouse effect.

-=-
 * OLX 2.2 * Is infinity odd or even?

--- SLMAIL v3.5C  (#1540)
 * Origin: Robotech þ Lake City's Music*Demo BBS þ [904] 758*9477 (1:3600/7)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 50 of 285
 From : Jeff Hancock                        1:3600/7        .åò 25 .íâ 96 21:25
 To   : Kay Shapero
 Subj : Babylon 5
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

KS> RS> Something that Ivonova says in Sheriden's bedroom is supposed to
KS> RS>be really funny.  Take that for what you will.
KS>Especially if it's any better than "Either we had one hell of a hull

The line was given away in the B5 magazine.
It's a paraphrase of a well-known Trek line.

Even without a full description of the circumstances, I can assure you
it is "really funny". ;-)

-=-
 * Crazy-J * "Fatal error 6 occurred while trying to report error 6."

--- SLMAIL v3.5C  (#1540)
 * Origin: Robotech þ Lake City's Music*Demo BBS þ [904] 758*9477 (1:3600/7)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 51 of 285
 From : STEPHEN ADAMS                       1:377/77        .pä 24 .íâ 96 14:43
 To   : ROBERT SIEMBORSKI
 Subj : SERIES CONCLUSIONS?
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE 1.2
On 01/18/96 at 17:03, ROBERT SIEMBORSKI uttered these words to STEPHEN ADAMS:
"NOWHERE MAN," which prompted this discussion:

Hello Robert...

RS> >If all of this speculation does indeed come true, then I'd rather see
RS> >the writers and producers of Nowhere Man either conclude the series, or
RS> >take it where they can continue on with the quality they've put out so
RS> >far; either in syndication or, perhaps, another network such as WB.

RS> I hate it when a series ends suddenly without a good final ending of
RS> its  overall arc. Example: Quantum Leap.  I hope that they don't cut
RS> B5 too soon either.

From what I've read, we won't have to worry about B5 for a while. All
indications show that Warner Brothers has picked up B5 for its fourth
season.

Besides, I think that some producers, when told that their series
*won't* be picked up again, purposefully leave the conclusion in
suspension. That way, if there's enough of a call by the audience to see
a logical conclusion, they could try to make big bucks by creating one
on the big screen. It seemed to have worked for Paramount with Star
Trek.

Later...

Steve Adams             Internet:  sfxerzf@scfn.thpl.lib.fl.us
January 24, 1996                   stephen.adams@bandit-bbs.com
14:51 ET                           wl-sadams-blb@society.com

---
 * RM 1.3  * Eval Day 49 *

---  WC!/IM!/GE-PRO1.20!
 * Origin: Longbow BBS! Tampa, FL (813)961-3653 USR V.34+ DS (1:377/77)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 52 of 285
 From : The Raven                           1:363/309       .åò 25 .íâ 96 05:29
 To   : Christian Raven
 Subj : Star Trek Sexism
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 CR> yes... alot of people (especially women) would like to change
 CR> centuries of evolution in just a few decades, but it's not so easy.

     Please don't take this the wrong way, as I mean no offense by it, but
are you for *real*?  This opinion of yours fits neatly in the "full of it"
file!

     Jack Butler



... I haven't lost my mind; it's backed up on tape somewhere!
--- Blue Wave/DOS v2.20 [NR]
 * Origin: Forethought BBS -=- Orlando, FL -=- 407-679-6561 (1:363/309)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 53 of 285
 From : The Raven                           1:363/309       .åò 25 .íâ 96 05:36
 To   : Ecarey
 Subj : TV AND SF
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 LED> You point out one glaring difference between US and British TV,
 LED> that  some foundational degree of culture was present when their
 LED> networks  started. The American networks tried to rise above the poor
 LED> breeding of  the typical American.

 > But don't forget, for every BBC Shakespeare production, there were half
 > a dozen sitcoms that were just as brainless as anything we have here.

     And in some cases worse.  As bad as some of the American "jiggle
comedies" were, nothing on American television could compare to "Benny Hill"
for sheer lowbrow comedy.


 Ec> It's rarely apparent _at the time_ which bits of contemporary culture
 Ec> are going to be lastingly valued; we make a mistake in believing we can
 Ec> pass final judgment on what's being produced now, and expect to be more
 Ec> right past generations of cultural pundits were about the products of
 Ec> _their_ era.

     As my mother says, "Always remember that Van Gogh and Mozart both died
paupers."


 Ec> The truth is, we have no idea what may survive from our own time to be
 Ec> regarded as "high culture" by future generations, and the assumption
 Ec> that _nothing_ will is pure pseudo-sophisticated snobbery firmly
 Ec> grounded in ignorance of what was popular and what not, and how
 Ec> _present_ classics were regarded, by earlier generations.

     Heh.  An image just came to me, from "Demolition Man".  The oldies
station played "minitunes", which were once advertising jingles of the late
20th Century.

     Jack Butler



... No cause is so right that one cannot find a fool following it.<Niven>
--- Blue Wave/DOS v2.20 [NR]
 * Origin: Forethought BBS -=- Orlando, FL -=- 407-679-6561 (1:363/309)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 54 of 285
 From : The Raven                           1:363/309       .åò 25 .íâ 96 05:46
 To   : Bianca Wesslak
 Subj : Survival Skills
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 > Where in the world did you get the above statement from me saying I'd beg
 > some native americans for survival lessons?

     You are making two *very* prejudicial statements here.  First, that
all modern Indians (we don't like being called "Native Americans", Bianca...
if you were born here, as I am assuming, *YOU* are a "Native American") have
wilderness survival skills.  We don't.  (I do, but mainly because of the
military.)  Second, that we would teach a semuhey white girl like you any
of them.

     Tough times, people would start looking out for their own, Bianca.
And besides, it would give the Indians a chance to take over again.  B)

     Jack Butler



... The OFFICIAL tagline of the 1996 Olympics!
--- Blue Wave/DOS v2.20 [NR]
 * Origin: Forethought BBS -=- Orlando, FL -=- 407-679-6561 (1:363/309)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 55 of 285
 From : Chris Ogniben                       1:2604/568      .ÿò 26 .íâ 96 11:04
 To   : David Durgee
 Subj : Re: nuclear bs
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

   For your information, that one Nuculear power planet is enough to
wipe out about a 1000 or more people if it explodes.  So, i think it
would be best to keep the number limited for these types of plants to
be running.  Since the danger is still there, no matter if the risks
are there or not.  The point is, when you are dealing with nuclear
power, it's going to be very risky to keep it all in line.  Because if
something bad happens, it's on your head for wanting to have more
plants.  I think right now the amount of running nuclear power plants
that we have in this country is enough.  And i sure won't want to live
near by one.  And all the other plants that we use to provide the
energy that we use everyday, is good enough for the energy needs we
need everyday and night.


--- WM v3.11/93-0947
 * Origin: Waterside BBS - NJ - (201) 641-5375 28.8k  (1:2604/568)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 56 of 285
 From : Chris Ogniben                       1:2604/568      .ÿò 26 .íâ 96 11:08
 To   : Channon Lang
 Subj : Re: Star Trek
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

   The writing for Voyager is not bad.  I have not had one complaint
since the series started.  And you know why?  Because i respect the
entertainment quality that Paramount and their writer's are putting
into each episode of Voyager.  There has been times where i may need to
say something.  But, i don't directly attack the writers.  What is
wrong with you people, is that you espect so much in each and every
episode as you want to see it.  More than to accept what you see and
try to enjoy it.  Without exspecting so much from it, or else you just
don't get the same entertainment qaulity, since you critize to much,
that you just loose out in the entertinament of the episode.


--- WM v3.11/93-0947
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Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 57 of 285
 From : Brion Lienhart                      1:213/700.2     .ÿò 26 .íâ 96 07:34
 To   : Frank Swarbrick
 Subj : weird tv
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Oh yeah, don't forget Eerie Indiana. I liked to motto of their police dept. "To
Protect and Control."



--- QM v1.31
 * Origin: Ministry of Peace - Carson City, NV (1:213/700.2)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 58 of 285
 From : Chris Ogniben                       1:2604/568      .åò 25 .íâ 96 16:31
 To   : Christian Raven
 Subj : Re: Star Trek
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

  You sir are a scumbag!  And a loser!  And you call yourself a trek
fan, why don't you just go to your toilet and suck the water out, and
then rinse your stinking mouth with soap and water.  Since apparently
you don't know what you were saying there.  Now, i don't know what
the problem is with you.  But, Star Trek Voyager at a scale of all the
trek fans that i know which is about in the hundreds,, and if you can
count that is 100s.  That with your stupid comment that was made for
your reply.  Shows that you are not a trek fan, and if you say you are,
you are a big disgrace to those that read your reply here.  Since, you
sir are a scumbag, why don't you go outside and see what is happening,
since you need to get a life.  And now onto why i am on your stinking
case you loser.

    You attacked Captain Janeway, just because she is a woman, doesn't
mean she is trying to be a man, you scumbucket.  And i for one enjoy
watching star trek voyager, with tons of other true trek fans.  And
perhaps we all do share some words about a woman being a Captain.  But,
we do respect her, and what she does.  And there is nothing wrong with
the crew of voyager.  If you can't live with it, then you are a racial
scumbag.  You needs to be shot on sight.  Since, you are a very low
intellect person that needs to wake up.  And to see out there that
women are in men jobs.  And that tons of people that are different in
race, are all out there, as friends, and working together in this
screwed up world.  And i think you shouldn't be in this conference,
with such a stupid comment that you made, so you better stay out of
this area, before you get more attacks, since you are stupid.


--- WM v3.11/93-0947
 * Origin: Waterside BBS - NJ - (201) 641-5375 28.8k  (1:2604/568)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 59 of 285
 From : Chris Ogniben                       1:2604/568      .åò 25 .íâ 96 16:32
 To   : Channon Lang
 Subj : Re: Star Trek
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

   Hello!!!!!!!  Apparently you seem to be more stupider than i
thought.  Since, i just finished replying to you, to how much of a
scumbag you are for attacking janeway.  And now you make another reply
to a person in here, stating that you like janeway.  Get a stinking
life you stupid idiot.  Since, apparently you don't even see that your
the biggest hypcrypt scumbuck and a bigger loser in this conference.


--- WM v3.11/93-0947
 * Origin: Waterside BBS - NJ - (201) 641-5375 28.8k  (1:2604/568)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 60 of 285
 From : Chris Ogniben                       1:2604/568      .åò 25 .íâ 96 16:33
 To   : Shawn Merrow
 Subj : Re: Space: Above & Beyond
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

   Hey i would like to discuss a few episodes upon this subject, since
i seen all the episodes.


--- WM v3.11/93-0947
 * Origin: Waterside BBS - NJ - (201) 641-5375 28.8k  (1:2604/568)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 61 of 285
 From : Brad Morgan                         1:342/63        .åò 25 .íâ 96 07:11
 To   : David Little
 Subj : Foundation Again
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
-=>After waking up with a miserable tooth-ache Brad read...<=-
DL->-=< Brad used the Jedi Mind Trick on me! >=-

DL-> CO->BW>Should you read the one(s) before it even
DL-> CO->BW>though they were written after or even though they take place befo
DL-> CO->BW>should you read them after? (kinda like the Star Wars movies, even
DL-> CO->BW>though all six will be out one of these days you should still watc
DL-> CO->BW>parts 4, 5, and 6 first.)
DL-> CO->I've only read the trilogy, so I can't help.  But, for the record, St
DL-> CO->Wars has NINE parts, not six.  (Three trilogies - one before "A New
DL-> CO->Hope", one after "Return of the Jedi")

DL-> BM> Why can't I find the other 6 books? Back when the earth was cooling,
DL-> BM> when the initial Star Wars came out, I remember seeing all 9 books in
DL-> BM> the bookstore, but I haven't been able to find the 1st or 3rd trilogy
DL-> BM> since...I have checked books in print off and on during the years, bu
DL-> BM> still, no books...I'm starting to wonder if I was hallucinating way
DL-> BM> back then...

DL->        That's because the 1st trilogy has not even been written and there
DL->is no 3rd trilogy.

I could have sworn I saw a whole whack of them...I knew then, WAY BACK
WHEN, that there was more to the story, but I must have been doing
better drugs back then than I thought....Thanks for straightening me
out.....SO to say;)

---
 À SIG 3.0 [NR] À On a clear disk you can seek forever

 * SLMR 2.1a * Sexist??? Me? Some of my best friends are BIMBOS!!!
--- Renegade v10-05 Exp
 * Origin: The Ferret Farm BBs -403-457-3396- (1:342/63)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 62 of 285
 From : Brad Morgan                         1:342/63        .åò 25 .íâ 96 07:11
 To   : Christopher O'conor
 Subj : Star Trek Sexism
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
CO->TS> DJ>> That's really quite an idiotic statement.  Giving orders is not a
CO->TS> DJ>> defining characteristic of masculinity.

CO->TS> CR>   really?  then what is?  femininty is just the opposite, and befo
CO->TS> CR> you go plundering into a losing argument, you should scan the
CO->TS> CR> definition in your webster's... submissiveness, not agression, is
CO->TS> CR> of the "defining characteristics" as you so well put it, of the
CO->TS> CR> feminine behavioral pattern.

CO->TS>Barefoot, pregnant and in the kitchen, eh?  And just what century do yo
CO->TS>you're living in?

Even my wife isn't in the kitchen...

CO->TS>You might like that kind of woman, but most children want everything th
CO->TS>way, too.  I prefer a partner, not a slave.

Amen...

CO->Pardon me, but I happen to believe the two sides here are NOT mutually
CO->exclusive.  My wife was quite good at being submissive, while all the
CO->while manipulating me into doing exactly what she wanted.
CO->I think a quick review of history will show that smart women have

held CO->considerably more power over the course of the centuries using
this CO->method than most feminist sympathizers would lead you to
believe.  It CO->may not be in a woman's nature to *order*, per se, but
they get the job CO->done in *their own way*, just as effectively as any
domineering, CO->"ordering" male.

CO->[And just to keep this on-topic...]  I think Janeway proves this out.  She
CO->a tendency to cajole her subordinates more than any of the other
CO->captains in ST, and specifically "order" a lot less.

CO->Chris

Yep, gotta agree, she only orders people to do stuff if it's something
that person would find distasteful.
---
 À SIG 3.0 [NR] À If you can't live without me, why aren't you dead?

 * SLMR 2.1a * * <--tribble      | <-- anorexic tribble
--- Renegade v10-05 Exp
 * Origin: The Ferret Farm BBs -403-457-3396- (1:342/63)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 63 of 285
 From : Brad Morgan                         1:342/63        .ÿò 26 .íâ 96 13:00
 To   : Owen E. Oulton
 Subj : Foundation Again
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
OEO->Must've got hold of some bad acid, man...  :-)  There is no 9-book series
OEO->out.  There are novelisations of the original and its sequels, but they c
OEO->after each movie.  There is a plethora of spin-off novels as well, but mo
OEO->them are less than 5 years old.  Now, what you might have seen was the th
OEO->novelisations, Splinter Of The Mind's Eye by Alan Dean Foster, the three
OEO->Solo spinoff nevels by Brian Daley, and the three Llando Calrissian spino
OEO->but I'll guarantee you that you didn't see a 9-book series.

Hmmmph!  I'll admit to doing some strange drugs way back then, But I
guess yer right...Can't wait for his next batch....;)

---
 À SIG 3.0 [NR] À Trekkers work out at the He's Dead Gym...

 * SLMR 2.1a * Death is Nature's way of saying 'slow down'.
--- Renegade v10-05 Exp
 * Origin: The Ferret Farm BBs -403-457-3396- (1:342/63)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 64 of 285
 From : Brad Morgan                         1:342/63        .ÿò 26 .íâ 96 13:00
 To   : James Walton
 Subj : Foundation Again
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
JW->No, you NEVER saw those other six books because Lucas never allowed them t
JW->written.  He wrote the original Star Wars novel from an idea he had, to ge
JW->money to finance his movie.  (I read that novel a full 2 years before the
JW->movie came out.)

I must have been doing better drugs than I thought back then...Thanx!
---
 À SIG 3.0 [NR] À BEER.CAN Not Found! User Not Loaded!

 * SLMR 2.1a * I wish I had STACK OVERFLOW in my wallet!
--- Renegade v10-05 Exp
 * Origin: The Ferret Farm BBs -403-457-3396- (1:342/63)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 65 of 285
 From : Tommy Kellerman                     2:205/356       .pä 24 .íâ 96 21:33
 To   : Tim Stackpool
 Subj : Re: V
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Hej Tim! How's it hangin' ?

In a message dated 18-Jan-96 02:27:18, Tim Stackpool wrote:

 TK> Does anyone know how many episodes of "V" that are available?

 TK> In Sweden they've shown about twelve, but I suspect
 TK> there are more available.

 TS>  Tommy I'll try to find out. (I know there was at least two seasons here)

Thank you, I would appreciate it!

 TS>   Where in Sweden are you?

Until I was twelve I lived in Stockholm, but now I live in a "county" called
Dalarna, very depending on farming and all that stuff.
I live in Furudal (translated: Pine Valley) which is a logging village.
Talk about adjustment! :)


 TS>  Hej do

Hehe! Hej dõ.


/// -Tommy K.- \\\

--- Xenolink 1.0 Z.3, EmacsXL.4
 * Origin: NoLimit, Furudal +46-258-10071 (2:205/356)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 66 of 285
 From : Phill Ash                           1:275/160       .óá 27 .íâ 96 08:24
 To   : Mark Jones
 Subj : Star Trek
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE 1.11+

 MJ> In ST:TOS, they'd have found the robot in the teaser.  When they
 MJ> opening credits were over, Scotty would say, "It took a lot of doing,
 MJ> Captain, but I got it working.  It wants to talk to you."  BANG--we're
 MJ> into the main plot with minimal effort and little or no technobabble.

 MJ> Did ANYONE really give a damn about the angst B'Lanna felt as she
 MJ> spouted endless technobabble?

        My gripe is this:

        Now that Torres is capable of constructing a 'sub'Soong-class
        android, will she do so?

        She scanned all of its systems, so those are available for
        replication or 'hard' construction.

        She knows how to reverse the cyber-vasectomy.

        The Doc could use a real body (and a name).

        Voyager will eventually need additional crew as all the extras
        get kilt.

        2 justifications for...
        2 reasons she should...
                ...I doubt it.


Your pal:  PhlAsh
... With six million albums to his credit in just two short years
---
 * Ùystertags v1.1 *
~~~ ReneWave v1.01 [NR]
--- Smile :)
 * Origin: * The Beast's Lair * (804)498-3070 * Va Beach VA * (1:275/160)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 67 of 285
 From : Phill Ash                           1:275/160       .óá 27 .íâ 96 08:24
 To   : Jon Helis
 Subj : The Guide and it's In
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE 1.11+

 JH> The radio scripts were also written by Adams.  He added alot of
 JH> material to them to make them more intersiting as a radio show
 JH> too.  What some people don't understand is that books, radio,
 JH> and TV are very different media, and sometimes, changes are
 JH> necessary to make one able to translate to the other.

        The radio show came first and is IMHO the only worthwhile
        incarnation of HHGttG.


Your pal:  PhlAsh
... And when it's faded and forgotten in some book - You'll sometimes look
---
 * Ùystertags v1.1 *
~~~ ReneWave v1.01 [NR]
--- Smile :)
 * Origin: * The Beast's Lair * (804)498-3070 * Va Beach VA * (1:275/160)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 68 of 285
 From : Frank Glover                        1:2613/477      .ÿò 26 .íâ 96 23:28
 To   : Chris Ogniben
 Subj : Re: vicotry!
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

CO>   And now you are going to face reality, thanks to Paramount, and this
CO>  new episode, that warp 10 can't be achieved and never will be.

   And how many angels can dance on the head of a pin?

   For the purposes of the movies and the current Trek TV series, warp speeds
seem to follow some sort of geometric relationship to each other (or maybe the
`true' speed is proportional to the tangent of the warp factor). So warp 9 isn't
just a little bit faster than warp 8, but *much* faster. Warp 9.5 *MUCH* faster
still, and Warp 10 would represent infinite velocity.

   But in the old series, warp speeds seemd to be a much more linear thing, and
in Journey to Babel, the Enterprise was attacked by a ship at warp 10+ speeds.
Somewhere along the way, the meaning of warp speeds were re-defined. (And maybe
they will be again. In `All Good Things,' a future Beverly Crusher ordered her
ship to warp 13 or so.)

   In other words, warp 10 can be pretty much what you *want* it to be.

   As for `facing reality,' remember, Star Trek is good entertainment, but it is
still *fiction.* (As is any kind of FTL travel, for the moment.) One can debate
internal consistency, which all good fiction needs, but as the owners (God?) of
the ST universe, Paramount decides what is real there, or not. Unlike the real
Universe which works a certain (but not fully understood) way, and different
opinions don't matter.

  Frank


--- QuickBBS 2.80 GoldBase (Zeta-1)
 * Origin: The Matrix Data Bank BBS, Rochester, Ny (1:2613/477)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 69 of 285
 From : Frank Glover                        1:2613/477      .ÿò 26 .íâ 96 23:36
 To   : Chris Ogniben
 Subj : Re: Megaspoiler - EXOGENESIS
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

CO>    I don't understand why people post SPOLIER's in here, if they thing
CO>  that anyone else would want to find out things, way before the new
CO>  episode shows up.  It would probably be best for everyone, to just
CO>  not
CO>  talk about anything for the upcoming new episodes of any sci fi
CO>  series,
CO>  until you all seen it.

  Some people *do* want to know. And in the case of a syndicated TV series (like
StarTrek or Babylon-5), the same episodes won't air at the same time for
everybody. Not everybody wil see the same movies all at once (if at all),
either. Those that have, can discuss them, with spoiler warnings to preserve the
suprise for those who have not yet. There's no way of *knowing* if we've all
seen a particular thing.

  All we ask is that spoiler warnigs *are* posted, so we may skip past the
giveaway portions of the message...as can you.

  Frank


--- QuickBBS 2.80 GoldBase (Zeta-1)
 * Origin: The Matrix Data Bank BBS, Rochester, Ny (1:2613/477)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 70 of 285
 From : Frank Swarbrick                     1:104/825       .óá 27 .íâ 96 11:00
 To   : Nicolai Shapero
 Subj : weird tv
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12  92-0022
On 01-24-96  19:10 my Very Good Friend Nicolai Shapero said:

 NS> On <Jan 20 23:39>, Frank Swarbrick (1:104/825) wrote to All:

 FS>I'm a big fan of "weird" tv shows and am trying to make a list of
 FS>shows that fit.  I've tried to list the years they aired and how
 FS>many
 FS>seasons (or seasons so far).  Any corrections welcome.

 NS> You might want to add MAX HEADROOM, and WEIRD SCIENCE.

I was concidering Max Headroom.  I don't think it is the same kind of
show as the others, but then I suppose the others aren't all the same
as each other either.  It's definately on the odd side...

As for Weird Science, isn't that a comedy?  I've never watched it
(other than the original movie).  It looks so, well...stupid.

        Frank

... Nick Knight - Taking a bite out of crime!
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12
 * Origin: The Bailey Information Exchange BBS, 28.8k v.fc  (1:104/825.0)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 71 of 285
 From : Frank Swarbrick                     1:104/825       .óá 27 .íâ 96 11:04
 To   : All
 Subj : Bruce Campbell
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12  92-0022
I don't know of anyone's interested, but Bruce Campbell (Brisco) is
guest staring on a two part episode of Homicide: Life on the Street in
February.  I'm not sure on the exact dates...

Just thought I'd post this, as I know there are a lot of Brisco fans
in this echo...

        Frank

... Dig me, but don't bury me.
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12
 * Origin: The Bailey Information Exchange BBS, 28.8k v.fc  (1:104/825.0)

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 Msg  : 72 of 285
 From : Frank Swarbrick                     1:104/825       .óá 27 .íâ 96 11:08
 To   : Chris Ogniben
 Subj : Re: SLIDERS/ANY NEWS?
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12  92-0022
On 01-24-96  12:34 my Very Good Friend Chris Ogniben said:

 CO> Holy cow, your right.  VR 5 is like not around.  They got rid of
 CO> MANTIS and VIPER remember those?  And now they got rid of
 CO> SEAQUEST!!!!!!   It makes sense, since every other week i am waiting
 CO> to see another episode of the new SEAQUEST.  And now all i get is just
 CO> other junk.  And i hear from you that it's been cancelled.  Well, all
 CO> i can say is that, it was going to happen sooner or later.

You really didn't know that SeaQuest was cancelled?  It was posted
quite a few times on this echo...

As for VR.5, I don't remember mentioning it in my message (you really
should use quotes), but it only lasted a few months in the spring of
1995.  A shame, because it was getting interesting, but the first few
episodes were pretty bad and lost most of the possible fan base...

As for MANTIS, I didn't like it, and I've never seen Viper.  That was
from a few years ago, wasn't it?  Some guy and his car?

There's still plenty of good stuff left, anyway.

        Frank

... Soul Windows (Version 3.1)
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12
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 Msg  : 73 of 285
 From : Mark Jones                          1:105/302.47    .òp 23 .íâ 96 23:51
 To   : Emilio Ares
 Subj : X-files
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On (22 Jan 96) Emilio Ares wrote to Mark Jones...

 MJ> Or something. I just finished DRAKON (the new Draka novel by S.
 MJ> M. [STEVE] Stirling). One of the technologies you encounter in
 MJ> this
 EA>
 EA> Can you send a list of the novels in this series? S.M.Stirling is
 EA> a good writer and I've the entire "The General" series.

MARCHING THROUGH GEORGIA (about the Draka conquest of Russia during
that timeline's version of World War II).

UNDER THE YOKE (about the Draka consolidation of Europe following the
war in the first book).

THE STONE DOGS (about events leading up to the final conflict between
the Domination of the Draka and the Alliance).

DRAKON (A Draka winds up in 1996 New York by accident, and begins
working to open a gate so the Draka can move in and take over).

Steve also reports (on GEnie) that he's signed a contract for UNTO US
A CHILD IS BORN, a sequel to DRAKON.  He may also write a prequel
about the Draka timeline's version of World War ONE.

I hope this helps.


--- PPoint 1.78
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 Msg  : 74 of 285
 From : Mark Jones                          1:105/302.47    .òp 23 .íâ 96 23:58
 To   : Ecarey
 Subj : TV AND SF
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On (20 Jan 96) Ecarey wrote to Michael Harper...

 E > The fact that we're cherry-picking British culture....

 E > The immense world-wide popularity of _American_ cultural products is
 E > steadfastly ignored, or treated as an act of aggression on _our_ part.
 E > However, although you've noticed its popularity world-wide, I note
 E > that you _haven't_ asked yourself why, if it's so inferior, it
 E > nevertheless manages to speak so effectively to such a wide variety of
 E > people in so many different cultures....

 E > The advertisers sponsor the most _popular_ programs available, or else
 E > the most popular with the demographic they're interested in reaching.
 E >
 E > A large part of the problem here is simple snobbery, and an
 E > unrealistic estimation of what the "common man" of _prior_ generations
 E > was doing for entertainment....

 E > The truth is, we have no idea what may survive from our own time to be
 E > regarded as "high culture" by future generations, and the assumption
 E > that _nothing_ will is pure pseudo-sophisticated snobbery....

Thanks for a great post!  It bears repeating--so I repeated some of
it.  There is a scene in Star Trek IV that I like.  Kirk is explaining
to Spock how he learned to swear in 20th century style.  He explains
that it was in "all the literature of the period--Jacqueline Susann,
Harold Robbins."  Spock replies, "Ah--the giants."

It was funny, and the audience laughed at the notion that the 23rd
century would look back at our century and pick THEM as literary
giants.  But stranger things have happened.  A number of books on
writing make the same point.  Not all popular writers are great; but
all great writers are popular.




--- PPoint 1.78
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 Msg  : 75 of 285
 From : Mark Jones                          1:105/302.47    .åò 25 .íâ 96 23:15
 To   : Tommy Kellerman
 Subj : Cybersex
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On (18 Jan 96) Tommy Kellerman wrote to Brion Lienhart...

 TK>  BL> She would pull out the bayonet she got for christmass and
 TK> eviscerate him.
 TK>  BL> 8-(:-)
 TK>
 TK> Hmmmmm... Such words give me the creeps! (Ssshhhhake)  :-C
 TK>
 TK> Well, you could always make a buck as a choir-boy afterwards... :-)

  Uhmm...no he couldn't.  Being eviscerated is much worse (more
lethal) than being castrated, which is what I think you meant.  Being
castrated wouldn't be any fun...but you'd probably survive it.  Being
eviscerated means leaving your internal organs all over the floor....


--- PPoint 1.78
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 Msg  : 76 of 285
 From : Mark Jones                          1:105/302.47    .åò 25 .íâ 96 23:25
 To   : Jon Helis
 Subj : Dangerous Babes
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On (15 Jan 96) Jon Helis wrote to Chris Ogniben...

 CO> Hey watch it with the language here. But, since we are on the
 CO> subject of talking about dangerous woman. What about XENA -
 CO> WARRIOR PRINICESS.. She is one hot babe, and one that could
 CO> really kick your butt. I sure would like to take her on a date,
 CO> or to get to know her better, maybe even marrying her, and raise
 CO> a family. But, the point is, she is a tough one also.
 JH>
 JH> Agreed about Xena.  I can appreciate and respect a strong woman,
 JH> unlike her ditzy sidekick.  I know, all heroes need sidekicks,
 JH> right?

Hey--don't you be disparaging Gabrielle!  I like her.  As a rule, I
find sidekicks annoying, but I like Gabrielle for two reasons.

1.  She's not *just* comic relief.  She actually does some good once
in a while.

2.  She's mighty cute (in a different way than Xena).


--- PPoint 1.78
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 Msg  : 77 of 285
 From : ROBERT LIDGREN                      1:134/10        .óá 27 .íâ 96 09:50
 To   : FRANK SWARBRICK
 Subj : X-FILES
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
-> RL> American Gothic RL> Nowhere Man RL> Strange Luck
-> RL> I wonder which ones will survive the on-going "shake-down?"
-> Hmm, I like all three.  But of the three I'd be least sad to see Strange
-> Luck gone.  Still, I'd rather see all of them survive.

DID YOU SEE THE MOST RECENT EPISODE OF X-FILES TITLED: Syzygy?

It was the one where Scully and Mulder investigate the Satanic-Cult allegations
in ths small town during the planetary conjunction.

Mulder:  We are but visitors on this rock, hurtling through time
         and space at 66,000 miles an hour tethered to a burning
         sphere by an invisible force in an unfathomable unverse.
         This, most of us take for granted while refusing to
         believe these forces have any more affect on us that a
         butterfly beating its wings half-way around the
         world.  Or that two girls born on the same date, at the
         same time, in the same place might not find themselves
         the unfortunate focus of similar unseen forces, converging
         like the planets themselves into burning pin-points of
         cosmic energy whose absolute gravity would threaten to swallow
         and consume everything in its path.  Or maybe the answer lies
         even further from our grasp.

These were the words spoken by Fox Mulder near the end of the episode
which seem strangely sombre considering the hilarity and "fun" which
Chris Carter wrote into this script.  The sparring between Mulder and
Scully reached new heights and Scully's jealousy even reached the point
where she complained to Mulder about being "ditched" by him when he went
off another female detective to so some "investigating" on their own.

I have read masses of messages from the X-Files digest on this episode and
the responses were mixed but, gee, it was an entertaining addition to the
X-Files canon!  Even the quips about who should "drive" had me LOL.

BTW:  I liked your additions to my idea about an epsiode cross-over.
      You are correct in concluding they probably will never happen but
      the conjecturing shows where some of our loyalites are and how
      we find comfort in, somehow, seeing "links" between the various
      fantasy "worlds" these shows create.
--- PCBoard 15.2
 * Origin: 32 lines 40 Gig BBS, Realtime InterNet SLIP (403)299-9900 (1:134/10)

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 Msg  : 78 of 285
 From : The Raven                           1:363/309       .óá 27 .íâ 96 08:16
 To   : John Arnold
 Subj : nuclear BS
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 JA> Yaka Mountain Nevada.
 JA> Rocky Flats.
 JA> I got some of the info on these two mixed I think.
 JA> Both were weapons plants.  Rocky flats for making & Yaka Mountain for
 JA> disassemblely of weapons.
 JA> RF has the Putonium stored in plastic drums on site and there was 62
 JA> pounds of it found through out the plants air system...
 JA> Doesn't say safe operation to me...

     Doesn't surprise me, but my point, and I do have one, is that the Three
Mile Island nuclear power plant... I'm going to repeat that last part since
it seems none of the anti-nuclear crowd can remember this part... the Three
Mile Island Nuclear Power Plant did not explode.
     In point of fact, the reactor core of not *ONE* reactor has ever
exploded.  Given competent technicians, equipment in a decent state of
repair, and intelligent diligence, there are no accidents at power plants
that aren't the result of blind, stinking bad luck.


 JA> Is seems silly to me to process more of this stuff when there doesn't
 JA> seem to be an agreed way to safely store the crap alreadly laying
 JA> around...

     I can see this well enough, but all of the problems you've mentiond are
not a natural result of nuclear power, but rather the result of human error,
greed, and cost-cutting.  In other words, preventable problems.

     Jack Butler



... Only the stupidest calves chose their own butcher.
--- Blue Wave/DOS v2.20 [NR]
 * Origin: Forethought BBS -=- Orlando, FL -=- 407-679-6561 (1:363/309)

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 Msg  : 79 of 285
 From : David Johnston                      1:342/14        .óá 27 .íâ 96 00:00
 To   : Frank Glover
 Subj : Re: Star Trek Comics
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
-> DJ>  For one week, as part of the crossover, 12 issues will be
-> printed DJ>  under
-> DJ>  the "Amalgam" imprint.  It will include "Bruce Wayne, Agent of
-> DJ>  Shield",
-> DJ>  "Super-Soldier", "Spider-Boy", "JLX", and "Doctor Strangefate",
-> along DJ>  with other concepts hybridised between the two companies.
->
-> Not the one I had in mind. What I read of involved the heroes as we
-> know them, with several different one-on-one encounters, and definite
-> winners and losers.

Same one.

--- PCBoard (R) v15.21/100
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 Msg  : 80 of 285
 From : Shawn Merrow                        1:3407/14       .óá 27 .íâ 96 16:44
 To   : Chris Ogniben
 Subj : Re: Space: Above & Beyond
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

-> Hey i would like to discuss a few episodes upon this subject, since
-> i seen all the episodes.

What did you think of "Who Moniters the Birds", I thought it was kind
of nice to find out more about Coope early life. They sure were hard
on the in-vitros.

--- QScan/PCB v1.16b / 01-0024
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 Msg  : 81 of 285
 From : Channon Lang                        1:130/809       .cê 28 .íâ 96 05:02
 To   : Chris Ogniben
 Subj : Re: Star Trek
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE 1.11+
From a dark bottomless pit,Chris Ogniben screamed up to Channon Lang about Star
Trek..

 CO> Hello!!!!!!!  Apparently you seem to be more stupider than i
 CO> thought.  Since, i just finished replying to you, to how much of a
 CO> scumbag you are for attacking janeway.  And now you make another reply
 CO> to a person in here, stating that you like janeway.  Get a stinking
 CO> life you stupid idiot.  Since, apparently you don't even see that your
 CO> the biggest hypcrypt scumbuck and a bigger loser in this conference.

 Look, maybe you need to get your facts straight before you start throwing
 around really thought out insults like that. I don't know what message you
 are talking about. Me attact Janeway? Prove it. You might have read a quote
 from someone else, but I don't recall EVER saying anything about that
 particular character in VOYAGER. Besides, what if I did? Who are you to
 judge anyone in such a manner. Everyone is entitled to an opinion, whether
 it stay constant or not. People change as well as opinions.

 Kinda like that old adage: "Judge not, lest ye me judged."

 As for me liking Janeway, I think it's a character that is wonderfully strong
 and is one of the redeeming qualities of ST:VOYAGER. The characters are
 the biggest quality of the show. I even like the actress in other T.V. shows
 that she has done. I was excited to find that she would be playing the
 character of the captain.

 Now, first of all Hypcrypt, is spelled hypocrit. Secondly, maybe you need
 to re-evaluate your lifestyle if the only thing you have to do is throw
 around needless insults such as those.

 Sorry, you behaved this way. I was kinda enjoying our conversations. If
 you think you can talk and converse in a civilized manner, I would like
 to continue them.

 Channon



... Oxymoron: Press Release.
--- MachoEcho 0.5ñ
 * Origin: The State of Confusion * Arlington Tx * 817-274-1920 * (1:130/809)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 82 of 285
 From : Channon Lang                        1:130/809       .cê 28 .íâ 96 05:02
 To   : Chris Ogniben
 Subj : Re: X-files
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE 1.11+
From a dark bottomless pit,Chris Ogniben screamed up to Channon Lang about
X-files..

 CO> you don't know where they have been before.  But, maybe your right
 CO> about the factor going down to an area, where bugs love it, which is
 CO> the tropics.  I bet it would be hard to really live around all them
 CO> bugs down there, but, the only reason taht people are afraid of the
 CO> insects, and their world.  Since that they are different from us,
 CO> without having organs that we use in order to be alive.  I just always
 CO> wonder how insects can be alive, without a beating heart, and
 CO> breathing lungs.  It's just part of being interested in finding those
 CO> answers in bugs.  But, hey did you see in that episode that hot looking
 CO> chick, that enjoyed learning about cock raoches..  I bet she must not
 CO> have a life with men, to be busy with studing those dirty bugs.

 Unfortunatly, I couldn't bring myself to watch the episode, so I don't know
 about the girl you are talking about.

 I do have to agree with you on the insect physiology....makes you wonder if
 it's not a better system. I mean, look how long roaches have been around.
 And nothing seems to kill the little buggers.

 Channon


... I live in a world of my own, but you're welcome to visit.
--- MachoEcho 0.5ñ
 * Origin: The State of Confusion * Arlington Tx * 817-274-1920 * (1:130/809)

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 Msg  : 83 of 285
 From : Channon Lang                        1:130/809       .cê 28 .íâ 96 05:02
 To   : Robert Siemborski
 Subj : Re: Babylon 5's sex scenes
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE 1.11+
From a dark bottomless pit,Robert Siemborski screamed up to Channon Lang about
Babylon 5's sex scenes..

 RS> @PATH: 2604/214 269 2 104 270/101 396/1 130/1008 509 35
 > Well, I know this much....I'm tired of reruns!!!!
 >
 > When are they gonna do something new?

 RS> This week is the last of the re-runs with: Passing through Gesoname
 RS> (spelled wrong, of course).  That's the one where the Black Rose
 RS> killer rediscovers his other (better? <evil grin>) half.

 I dunno....I kinda liked his evil side. You know, I wonder if that would
 be a better punishment. Everyone else knowing who you are and not telling.

 RS> After that, it's new episodes with the one with the funniest line in
 RS> the series to date, blah, blah.... Supposed to be a BIG arc episode.
 RS> It's about time.

 I'll definatly have to watch it tomorrow night! Can hardly wait!

 Channon



... Sometimes I'm so obscure, even *I* don't know what I meant!
--- MachoEcho 0.5ñ
 * Origin: The State of Confusion * Arlington Tx * 817-274-1920 * (1:130/809)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 84 of 285
 From : Channon Lang                        1:130/809       .cê 28 .íâ 96 05:02
 To   : Rod Mammitzsch
 Subj : Re: canadian stuff
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE 1.11+
From a dark bottomless pit,Rod Mammitzsch screamed up to Channon Lang about
canadian stuff..

 CL>  Hubby and I went to Toronto for part of our Honeymoon trip. Do they
 CL> still
 CL>  take you to Jupiter? It was nice traveling to another planet for a
 CL> Honeymoon.
 CL>  And to think we were just gonna stop in Niagra Falls....
 RM> Yes I think they still have that trip...they also have a
 RM> "laser tag" game down there as well.  Niagra Falls is nice but Jupiter
 RM> is better!  :)

 What a ride that was!!!! We still have the tickets. Someday we're gonna
 go back. Hubby's relative's live in Buffalo. Heck, if I get that close, I'm
 DEFINATLY gonna do that again....

 Hubby would probably like the laser tag, too...

 Channon


... When all else fails play dead. (the Possum Lodge motto)
--- MachoEcho 0.5ñ
 * Origin: The State of Confusion * Arlington Tx * 817-274-1920 * (1:130/809)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 85 of 285
 From : Channon Lang                        1:130/809       .cê 28 .íâ 96 05:02
 To   : Chris Carter
 Subj : Your perfect repremand
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE 1.11+
From a dark bottomless pit,Chris Carter screamed up to Chris Ogniben about
Nuclear..

 CC> 1)  Mr. Ogniben, start *quoting* messages.  Since conversations in
 CC> this echo do not occur in real time, context can be lost when you
 CC> don't quote pertinent text from the message you're replying to.  To
 CC> be quite honest, I don't recollect making the joke you accuse me of
 CC> making.  Perhaps if you'd quoted it back to me, I'd know what the
 CC> Hell you were talking about.

 CC> 2)  The only reason I'm answering this message is because it was
 CC> addressed directly to me.  In general, I ignore your messages,
 CC> primarily because of the reason stated in the previous paragraph.
 CC> It has become evident that merely ignoring you will be inadequate.
 CC> Hence, I'll introduce you to my twit filter.

 CC> *plonk*  (For those who just joined our program, "plonk" is the
 CC> sound of someone hitting a killfile or twit filter.)

 CC> To all others who may read this message, I apologize; not for the
 CC> comments I allegedly made in regard to cancer, (my sign) but for the
 CC> contents of this post.

 I normally would not respond to past such as this, but I feel I must at
 least thank you for the message. Since I was also one that he pointed
 his finger at, I'm glad someone *plonked* him.

 Channon
... There's an old droid saying: 001100101101001010001110
--- MachoEcho 0.5ñ
 * Origin: The State of Confusion * Arlington Tx * 817-274-1920 * (1:130/809)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 86 of 285
 From : Scott Royall                        1:106/357       .cê 28 .íâ 96 10:58
 To   : Mark Jones
 Subj : Dangerous Babes
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Mark,

Thursday January 25 1996 23:25, Mark Jones wrote to Jon Helis:

 MJ> Hey--don't you be disparaging Gabrielle!  I like her.  As a rule, I
 MJ> find sidekicks annoying, but I like Gabrielle for two reasons.

 MJ> 1.  She's not *just* comic relief.  She actually does some good once
 MJ> in a while.

 MJ> 2.  She's mighty cute (in a different way than Xena).

I'll roger that.  There's something about Gabrielle I find endearing.  She's
cute and spunky, sorta like my first ex.


Scott

sroyal@accesscomm.net
royall@shellus.com
FAX: 713-556-5464

--- GoldED/2 2.50+
 * Origin:  scott.royall@conch.cld9.com  713-556-5464  (1:106/357)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 87 of 285
 From : J.T. Smith                          1:132/152       .óá 27 .íâ 96 12:24
 To   : Bill Clements
 Subj : NUCLEAR
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Contact has been made.

 BC> `Fusion Without Ex-Lax' first published in `GALAXY' October 1976
 BC> (C)opyright by UPD Publishing Corporation Inc. and reprinted in
 BC> `A STEP FARTHER OUT' (C)opyright 1979 by Jerry Pournelle, Ph.D..
 BC> This was written in 1976, and is still true today.  How's that
 BC> for a half life?  I implore all readers following this thread,
 BC> and all resultant threads, PLEASE read `A STEP FARTHER OUT' and
 BC> add it to your Pro-Nuclear Arsenal!

 Nah.

... Profanity: The language all programmers know.
--- Blue Wave v2.12 [NR]
 * Origin: The Cereal Port BBS (OS/2) Rindge,NH 603-899-3335 (1:132/152)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 88 of 285
 From : David Durgee                        1:109/458       .cê 28 .íâ 96 09:26
 To   : Chris Ogniben
 Subj : Re: nuclear bs
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: InterEcho 1.14 6E011108
In a message dated 01-2696, Chris Ogniben said to David Durgee:

CO>   For your information, that one Nuculear power planet is enough to
CO>wipe out about a 1000 or more people if it explodes.

Explosion is NOT possible for a nuclear power plant.  Power plants are NOT
build like bombs just waiting to explode.  You should regard the person who
told you that a nuclear reactor could explode as completely ignorant of the
topic and utterly unreliable in anything related to the field.

CO>So, i think it would be best to keep the number limited for these types
CO>of plants to be running.  Since the danger is still there, no matter if
CO>the risks are there or not.

ALL activities have an element of risk.  You risk being struck and killed by
a meteorite when you walk around outdoors, as only one case of such a death
has ever been documented your chances of it occurring is infinitesimal.  All
methods of generating power entail their own hazards, but you need to look
at the bigger picture.  I suggest you check your local library for "The
Health Hazards of NOT Going Nuclear" written by someone who actually works
in the field.  If you take all things into account from mining the resources
necessary to the actual generation of power you will find that nuclear power
is significantly less hazardous to all involved than any other method of
power generation.  This includes coal, oil, hydroelectric and solar methods
of generation.

CO>The point is, when you are dealing with nuclear power, it's going to be
CO>very risky to keep it all in line.  Because if something bad happens,
CO>it's on your head for wanting to have more plants.

As I noted above "something bad happens" all the time.  Nuclear power
results in the fewest "bad" things happening to us as a people.

CO>I think right now the amount of running nuclear power plants that we have
CO>in this country is enough.  And i sure won't want to live near by one.
CO>And all the other plants that we use to provide the energy that we use
CO>everyday, is good enough for the energy needs we need everyday and night.

Your fears are the result of misinformation.  You should totally discount
anything you hear related to this topic from whoever has been feeding you
this line of baloney as utterly without basis in reality.  Our demand for
power is ever increasing as our population and industrial base grows.  This
requires additional plants to be built to provide this additional power
necessary to sustain our civilization.  The best choice from a logical
standpoint is a nuclear plant.  The hysterical reaction of the victims of a
deliberate campaign of misinformation has resulted in a virtual maze of
unnecessary regulation and red tape slowing such a process to a crawl.  This
has forced utilities to use existing plants of all types at or in some cases
beyond their normal range of operation at reduced efficiency and higher risk
and to build additional coal fired plants whose environmental impact is much
worse than that of a nuclear plant.

In conclusion I would suggest you carefully examine the credentials of those
whom you rely upon for information.  Keep in mind that expertise in one
field does not carry over into others.  A botanist has knowledge of plants
and their development and usage.  He would know the impacts of radiation
poisoning on plants.  He would have not the foggiest idea of how a nuclear
power plant operates, what measures are taken to prevent escape of
radioactive materials into the environment, what the probability of such and
event would be or how they would disperse if such an event were to occur.

Ignorance is a correctable condition, but it requires effort on the part of
the one who wishes to escape from it.  Someone once said "It ain't what we
DON'T know that can hurt us, its what we DO know that's wrong that will hurt
us!"  You need to correct this condition in your own life in the area of
nuclear energy.  Now that you are alerted to this condition in this area I
suggest you also reevaluate your knowledge in other areas to guard against
misinformation that can lead to problems in those areas as well.

Dave
___
 * MR/2 2.22 NR * "I think not", said the liberal, and no one was surprised.


--- InterEcho 1.14
 * Origin: The Shoreline BBS  - (301) 946-2771 - Silver Spring, MD (1:109/458)


Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 89 of 285
 From : Kay Shapero                         1:102/524       .óá 27 .íâ 96 18:43
 To   : Frank Glover
 Subj : Books
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Jan 25 22:38>, Frank Glover (1:2613/477) wrote to Kay Shapero:

 FG>
 FG>   Just for my curiosity, have you read (and if so, what did you
 FG>think of) David Brin's `Glory Season?"

Haven't read it yet.  I think it's in the TRQ, but can't check at the moment.
I'm still reading Mary Gentle's GRUNTS at the moment.  I recommend it as an
antidote to one too many Tolkien-rip-off generic fantasies.. :->  Mind you, it
contains characters who, for the most part, you'd be quite happy to sling into
the abyss and put a lid on it.

--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 90 of 285
 From : David Little                        1:106/7315      .óá 27 .íâ 96 13:14
 To   : Don Dellmann
 Subj : star wars holiday special
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
-=< Don used the Jedi Mind Trick on me! >=-

 RT> SPECIAL??????????? I really want to see it cause it has the first
 RT> apperance of everyones favorite interplanetary assain !!!!!!!!!BOBA
 RT> FETT !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 RT> PLEASE respond if you can help.
 RT> thanx
 DL> Since there was no official release on to video, the only
 DL> place you can get it is probably a bootleg copy at a con somewhere. I'd
 DL> shy away from it if I were you...it's not a good show!
 DD> I have an LP "Christmas In The Stars" (RSO RS1-3093, 1980).
 DD> The only person actually from the films that appears is Anthony
 DD> Daniels as C3PO.  This is the LP with the minor hit "What Do You Get A
 DD> Wookie For Christmas (when he already has a comb)".

        You get him a matchin brush!! I have it and LOVE it!!!

 DD> My question is, is there any connection between this album and the TV
 DD> special?

        None whatsoever...but the LP is can bring quite a catch in the
collector's market. I would love for it to hit CD!

                                        -=The DoLittle 8-)=-


... "Bother!" said Pooh, as he found out that Christopher Robin was Vader.

--- FreeMail & Blue Wave/DOS v2.21
 * Origin: The Wizard's Realm ** (713) 946-7315 ** (1:106/7315)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 91 of 285
 From : David Little                        1:106/7315      .óá 27 .íâ 96 17:13
 To   : James Walton
 Subj : Star Wars Novelizations
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
-=< James used the Jedi Mind Trick on me! >=-

 JW> No, you NEVER saw those other six books because Lucas never allowed
 JW> them to be written.  He wrote the original Star Wars novel from an
 JW> idea he had, to get money to finance his movie.  (I read that novel a
 JW> full 2 years before the movie came out.)

        You couldn't have considering the novelization wasn't released till
after the movie came out and Lucas didn't even write it. Alan Dean Foster
ghost wrote the novel. Lucas explains this in "Skywalking".



    .  A  .
 .d8  Y8Y  8b.         -=The DoLittle 8-)=-
 888   8   888    Star Wars, The Role Playing Game
 888b.d8b.d888            Play By E-Mail
 `88888888888'  Game Master and Useless Trivia Guru
   `"Y888P"'        dolittle@frappy.brewich.com

... "I'm ready for anything" - Luke Skywalker
--- FreeMail & Blue Wave/DOS v2.21
 * Origin: The Wizard's Realm ** (713) 946-7315 ** (1:106/7315)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 92 of 285
 From : Frank Glover                        1:2613/477      .cê 28 .íâ 96 02:46
 To   : Chris Ogniben
 Subj : Re: X-files
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

CO>  bugs.  But, hey did you see in that episode that hot looking chick,
CO>  that enjoyed learning about cock raoches..  I bet she must not have a
CO>  life with men, to be busy with studing those dirty bugs.

   It's a dirty job, but *sonbody's* got to be an entymologist.

   Seriously, one's professional life and passions need have little to do with
one's personal life. (Morticians, I'm sure, go out and party like anyone else.)
And I notice Bambi got a noticeable response out of the otherwise cool
Mulder....

   Frank


--- QuickBBS 2.80 GoldBase (Zeta-1)
 * Origin: The Matrix Data Bank BBS, Rochester, Ny (1:2613/477)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 93 of 285
 From : Glenn Shaheen                       1:3600/7        .åò 25 .íâ 96 18:08
 To   : Frank Glover
 Subj : Star Trek
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

FG>   Maybe I missed something all along, but isn't Captain Janeway actually
FG>married to that guy?

FG>   Frank

        Fiance I thought.

-=-
 * OLX 2.2 * You with the pen!  Let's see your dramatic license!

--- SLMAIL v3.5C  (#1540)
 * Origin: Robotech þ Lake City's Music*Demo BBS þ [904] 758*9477 (1:3600/7)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 94 of 285
 From : Kim Wheat                           1:271/285       .cê 28 .íâ 96 08:51
 To   : Chris Ogniben
 Subj : Star Trek
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
---<<*<<< Chris dazzled Buc Wheat with these words of wisdom!! >>>**>>----

 In a way, Chris, it's nice to see at least ONE V'ger fan.

 CO> The writing for Voyager is not bad.  I have not had one complaint

 Writing might not be...now if they could find some 'actors' to speak
 the lines, they might have something worth watching.

 CO> since the series started.  And you know why?  Because i respect the
 CO> entertainment quality that Paramount and their writer's are putting
 CO> into each episode of Voyager.  There has been times where i may need

 Your level of quality must be slightly lower than normal folks. But
 that's okay, Chris! If you enjoy the show, that's great! You just have
 to realize that this echo is for the 'discussion' of SF mediums, and
 you will see both sides of the coin. Calling people scumbags, etc,
 really isn't going to 'win' folks to your side, too much...so you might
 want to tone down the msg just a tad and try a more intellectual
 approach in your discussions.

 People who read your msgs to Channon and Christain, after the laughter
 fit passed, might see why you and V'ger get along so well. :>

 Just remember, Chris, it's /just/ a TV show. Let's keep it in
 prospective and enjoy ourselves.

 Enjoy!
  Kim :)


--- GEcho 1.00
 * Origin: From Trekkies & from B5ers who hate Trek save us! (1:271/285.0)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 95 of 285
 From : Samantha Dobbs                      1:229/610       .ÿò 26 .íâ 96 12:46
 To   : Shawn Merrow
 Subj : Re: Space: Above & Beyond
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
I LOVED it!! It was very dark and we got to see his background!


Samantha Dobbs
ac050@freenet.durham.org
samantha.dobbs@adra.gryn.org

--- CNet/3
 * Origin: The Neutral Zone...(1:229/610.0)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 96 of 285
 From : Samantha Dobbs                      1:229/610       .ÿò 26 .íâ 96 12:46
 To   : Marco Catalano
 Subj : Re: Space: Above & Beyond
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
It gets MUCH better!!!


Samantha Dobbs
ac050@freenet.durham.org
samantha.dobbs@adra.gryn.org

--- CNet/3
 * Origin: The Neutral Zone...(1:229/610.0)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 97 of 285
 From : Samantha Dobbs                      1:229/610       .ÿò 26 .íâ 96 12:50
 To   : Rene Nieuwenhuizen
 Subj : Re: Space: Above & Beyond
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Hi Rene!

I hated the show when it started!! It was on the same time as 60Minutes! Now I
don't give a **** if I miss 60 Minutes. S:AAB is great!! I am on two mailing
lists called Space-L and JMDG-l JM is for fans of James Morrison. I even got his
email address! He is very sweet. (And yes I AM kissing butt!) I hear some of the
cast read the alt and news bases!


Samantha Dobbs
ac050@freenet.durham.org
samantha.dobbs@adra.gryn.org

--- CNet/3
 * Origin: The Neutral Zone...(1:229/610.0)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 98 of 285
 From : Donald Sohn                         1:109/369       .îí 29 .íâ 96 00:09
 To   : Tim Stackpool
 Subj : Re: X-Files & E.T.
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 -=> Quoting Donald Sohn to All <=-

 DS> Did anyone see the short story that Entertainment Tonight had on
 DS> Gillian Anderson and David Duchovney posing
 DS> for Rolling Stones?  I
 DS> think it's just for Australia though.  :(
 DS> Anybody from Australia?


 TS>  Never saw the story on ET
 TS>  But we have that edition of Rolling Stone.
 TS>  Is that what you want?

Exactly. :)
Sorry it took so long to reply but the BBS I use to access Fidonet was down a
while.
Um... If there's a way I can give my address... hmmm.  I don't want to rack up
any long-d charges.  Or I could just post it.
Willing to send for money?

--- Maximus/2 3.01
 * Origin: UFOria (1:109/369)


Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 99 of 285
 From : Todd Sullivan                       1:202/720.3     .óá 27 .íâ 96 20:41
 To   : Chris Ogniben
 Subj : Defeatist drivel
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
While substituting for Q, Chris Ogniben took extreme delight in saying to Phill
Ash, "You'll do anything I say?"  Phill quailed when the words "Nuclear" were
uttered.

 CO> over it, since we kill, and attack one another and the enviroment, and
 CO> the people that try to save it, is just not enough to stop what life
 CO> has all ready destined into the human race, and that is total
 CO> destruction.

You're not helping anything with this defeatist preahcing.

Perhaps you think it was better when we were smarter but less informed, like the
Middle Ages?  Disease was more rampant, wars were fought for no apparent reason,
life was hard, short and dismally empty, inbreeding was a way of life.

You might think we're all getting stupider, but you have yet to prove your
assertations with facts, figures and hard evidence; all you've done is state
your *opinion*, which means very little against the improvements of the last
century /in/ /all/ /areas/.  If the fact that we're not living in Gene
Roddenbery's dream is your problem, get over it.  You have no right to drag
anyone down with your pessimistic drivel.

Todd Sullivan

... "Every reform, however necessary, will by weak minds be carried to
     an excess, that in itself will need reforming." --Coleridge

-*- ASTG 1.9

--- Spot 1.3a Unregistered
 * Origin: Todd's Spot in the Continuum (1:202/720.3)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 100 of 285
 From : Todd Sullivan                       1:202/720.3     .óá 27 .íâ 96 20:43
 To   : Chris Ogniben
 Subj : X-files and insects
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
While substituting for Q, Chris Ogniben took extreme delight in saying to me,
"You'll do anything I say?"  I quailed when the words "X-files and insects" were
uttered.

 CO>    Yes, but, how do you know if that bug, that one that Mulder picked
 CO> up, and said welcome to the planet earth.  Was really a roach, that was
 CO> a little robot that was scoping out the earth.

If you're looking for information, I'll answer.  If you're looking to make
points, bother someone else.

Playing Devil's advocate doesn't help unless you intend to *contribute* to the
discussion.

Todd Sullivan

... "A straw vote only shows which way the hot air blows." --O Henry

-*- ASTG 1.9

--- Spot 1.3a Unregistered
 * Origin: Todd's Spot in the Continuum (1:202/720.3)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 101 of 285
 From : Todd Sullivan                       1:202/720.3     .cê 28 .íâ 96 15:07
 To   : Bianca Wesslak
 Subj : nuclear
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
While substituting for Q, Bianca Wesslak took extreme delight in saying to Chip
Griffin, "You'll do anything I say?"  Chip quailed when the words "nuclear" were
uttered.

 CG>> you are! Vermont Yankee has a fairly good reputation in the industry.
 BW>  I live in the blast radias of seabrook.  Like I said before, I just
 BW> don't like the idea of nuke energy.  INMHO not worth the risk.

Nicolai declared this off-topic.

FYI, power plants and nuclear weapons are not the same.  No nuke plant ever
suffered a nuclear explosion *ever*.  "Blast radius of Seabrook"; what ignorant,
luddite dreck!

And yes, Nicolai, I'll say no more.  I agree that this has gone far enough.

Todd Sullivan

... Hey Fundie!  Why can't your mind be as open as your mouth always is?

-*- ASTG 1.9

--- Spot 1.3a Unregistered
 * Origin: Todd's Spot in the Continuum (1:202/720.3)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 102 of 285
 From : Todd Sullivan                       1:202/720.3     .cê 28 .íâ 96 15:12
 To   : David Johnston
 Subj : Nowhere Man
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
While substituting for Q, David Johnston took extreme delight in saying to me,
"You'll do anything I say?"  I quailed when the words "Nowhere Man" were
uttered.

 ->> DJ> Oh, I believe that conspiracies exist.  I just don't believe that
 ->> they DJ> can simultaneously be so omnipotent and incompetent at the
 ->> same time.
 ->> Hmmm.  History's full of them; all you have to do is look for them.
 ->> The CIA had a few laughable ideas as to get rid of Castro, and
 ->> they're about as omnipotent as you can get in this country.

 DJ> If you say so.  I hadn't noticed.

While I'll admit that I'm generally suspicious of the US Gov't and its
subsidiaries, you'd think so if they took noticew of you and decided to have fun
at your expense.  IRS audits are no fun at all; they're very Draconian, ie, you
have to prove your innocence.

Todd Sullivan

... "The strongest and sweetest songs yet remain to be sung."
     --Walt Whitman

-*- ASTG 1.9

--- Spot 1.3a Unregistered
 * Origin: Todd's Spot in the Continuum (1:202/720.3)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 103 of 285
 From : Chris Ogniben                       1:2604/568      .óá 27 .íâ 96 13:26
 To   : Jon Helis
 Subj : Re: Dangerous Babes
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

    I seen every episode since this series ever started.  But, i have
to admit, that i may forget a few things.  Since i just watch the
episode, and want to talk about it then move on.  But, i do remember
the episode that you are talking about.  Where Hawks founded a family
member, his sister.  Who was also an invetro.  But, with the rebellion
that they had to shut down the life support in the invetro area,
killing off his sister.  He was only able to see who she was, and what
she looked like.  But, otherwise i guess he lost the only family member
he would have had.  One thing is for sure, and that was it was a good
episode.  The one that i liked was the one where there was this comet,
and Vansen and the other's on baord the transport used the comet in
order to move them back into an area that they were rescued.  It was
one of my favorite episodes.  I really like the idea of what they did
with this new series.  But, there is still a lot more to learn of the
chigs, since i havn't been able to see a straight face, if there is
one, other than helmets and green guts.


--- WM v3.11/93-0947
 * Origin: Waterside BBS - NJ - (201) 641-5375 28.8k  (1:2604/568)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 104 of 285
 From : Chris Ogniben                       1:2604/568      .óá 27 .íâ 96 13:28
 To   : Jon Helis
 Subj : Re: Dangerous Babes
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

   For some reason i do like Gabrielle, but, she does get on my nerves
sometimes.  But, she fits for a good sidekick for Xena.  But, Hercules
was doing fine on his own.  But, i think these past few episodes, his
sidekick is his friend Iolis.  But, Xena is really hot, and i just
enjoy watching her.  It's like a big turn on for her, to face anyone in
battle.  Since, she enjoys fighting more than anythign else.  And it's
always fun to see her face light up, before she kicks some ass.


--- WM v3.11/93-0947
 * Origin: Waterside BBS - NJ - (201) 641-5375 28.8k  (1:2604/568)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 105 of 285
 From : Chris Ogniben                       1:2604/568      .óá 27 .íâ 96 13:29
 To   : David Johnston
 Subj : Nuclear
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

   I still say that the human race, is very vunerable to be taken over
by another race.  And the reason is that we are weak, though many
people say that we are not.  But, we are.  And an alien race that is
bred to conqure or has evolved to take over planets that have weakling
life forms.  That we are a prime canditate to be taken over easily.


--- WM v3.11/93-0947
 * Origin: Waterside BBS - NJ - (201) 641-5375 28.8k  (1:2604/568)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 106 of 285
 From : Chris Ogniben                       1:2604/568      .óá 27 .íâ 96 16:40
 To   : Channon Lang
 Subj : Re: Star Trek
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

   It is pretty obvious that people are just not getting the idea.
First of all, in the very beginning of Voyager, there was no intention
to put Voyager where there would be a Male, Female issue, or gender.
As far as i and many other trek fans know.  Is that Janeway is a
female, a attractive older woman.  And is a Captain.  But, there is
nothing to indicate that she is trying to be a man, by being a Captain,
and that she is trying to prove something because she is a woman.  All
she is doing, like all other captains, alien or not.  Is doing her job
under the guidlines that she learned from Star Fleet.  That is it,
there is really nothing else going on here, other than she makes a good
Captain, but, it's not because of gender, it's because of what she
learned and how she is using it.


--- WM v3.11/93-0947
 * Origin: Waterside BBS - NJ - (201) 641-5375 28.8k  (1:2604/568)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 107 of 285
 From : Chris Ogniben                       1:2604/568      .óá 27 .íâ 96 16:43
 To   : Frank Swarbrick
 Subj : Re: Space: Above & Beyond
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

   I like Vansen, and Hawks is pretty cool.  In that episode where you
stated that you weren't able to make out his face, because it was
covered with face paint.  Until all most half way into the episode.
All i have to say there, is you get the understanding of two things.
First, that the chigs, are all not invisible.  Since one of the chigs
apparently didn't want to be killed and gave Hawks something, like a
warrior would do on the battle field, if they both feel it was the
honorable thing to do.  And move on as if they never seen each other.
The next thing, was that this episode made Hawks like as if he was
Rambo or something, since he really did things that Rambo was known to
do, the only thing that was missing was the music.


--- WM v3.11/93-0947
 * Origin: Waterside BBS - NJ - (201) 641-5375 28.8k  (1:2604/568)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 108 of 285
 From : Chris Ogniben                       1:2604/568      .óá 27 .íâ 96 16:45
 To   : David Johnston
 Subj : Virtual Sex
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

   I been wondering how real it would feel, and how the future would be
like, when you have a vitural reality machine in your room.  Where you
can make it feel like your having sex with anyone around the world.
Along with the factor with famous women, and with the playboy girls in
a interaction of really hot realistic stuff.  I sure would find it to
be very cool.  Only because everything you do and feel, is real, and
you just loose yourself into fantasy and stuff, to bad these machines
costs tons of money right now.


--- WM v3.11/93-0947
 * Origin: Waterside BBS - NJ - (201) 641-5375 28.8k  (1:2604/568)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 109 of 285
 From : Chris Ogniben                       1:2604/568      .óá 27 .íâ 96 16:47
 To   : Aaron Turon
 Subj : Star Trek
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

  I am a fan of all trek, so, what do you want to talk about.


--- WM v3.11/93-0947
 * Origin: Waterside BBS - NJ - (201) 641-5375 28.8k  (1:2604/568)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 110 of 285
 From : John Crawford                       1:221/1050      .òp 23 .íâ 96 21:33
 To   : Chris Ogniben
 Subj : Re: X-files
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
        Hey Chris, I read what you guys were saying about the X-Files.  A couple
of friends and I LOVE the X-Files.  About that cockroach thing, I think that,
considering the origin of the X-Files, the cockroaches may have actually been
alien spies.  Other possibilities might include:

a) Sudden migration of killer cockroaches
b) Killer cockroaches may have been flying by and saw a nice little town to
prey upon...
c) Science experiments gone bad
d) Spontaneous generation and migration
e) Or simply evolution allowed a certain type of cockroaches to mutate.

        I wouldn't mind hearing a reply to this.  One of my friends' name is
Courtney Montgomery, but I wouldn't leave any messages to her in the near future
because a) She hasn't bought her computer yet, though she plans to sometime this
week, and b) When she does buy/hook up her computer, she has to log on to the
BBS and I have to tell her that she should be expecting a message.  Bye.

--- Maximus/2 2.02
 * Origin: Five Guys BBS (1:221/1050)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 111 of 285
 From : Star Hawk                           1:362/708.6     .óá 27 .íâ 96 23:48
 To   : Chris Myers
 Subj : elfquest
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
     From the Elfquest comics:

A MATTER OF OPINION

     There's something riding on the wind.
     A low and distant rumbling of change.
     It's getting closer.
     By the time you read this, Elfquest will be turning eighteen.  For us
five-fingers living on the World of One Moon (in American culture, anyway),
reaching the age of eighteen opens many doors.  Some of these doors lead to
changes in legal status; some of them are personal and individual.  When you
become eighteen (and of course depending upon where you live, the details may be
slightly different), you can vote, you can be called to war, you can enter into
contracts.  It is the age at which you are most likely to go off to college,
thus cutting ties with your previous life-style of living at home.  It is the
age at which you may enter the work force, having completed a high school
education.  It is the age at which you may decide to start a family.  It's when
a lot people "take the next step" in life.
     Janis Ian wrote about what it is like "At Seventeen."  Seventeen is
foreplay.  Eighteen is getting down in the clinch and "doing it."
     Elfquest turns eighteen and it's looking to take the next step.  I'm
writing this editorial to apppear in our January 1996 titles and it's not even
December 1995 yet.  What's even more on my mind is April.  Because, you see, by
March, all of the current Elfquest stories will have concluded.  HIDDEN YEARS,
NEW BLOOD, SHARDS, JINK, THE REBELS, KAHVI, TWO-SPEAR.  For the first time -
literally - all of the threads in the tapestry will be tied up in a neat bow.
     For the first time, Elfquest - the world, the stories, the characters, all
of it all at once - will arrive at a landing place, having spent the past two or
four or eighteen years running pell-mell through all their adventures.  They'll
all be gathered, waiting, looking forward into - what?
     Frankly, I have no idea.
     No, that's not true.  I have many ideas.  But the thought of getting to a
place from which one can take a moment to reflect, to gather, to simmer - that's
appealing.  The temptation is great to say, "Well, that's that for now - let's
take some time off."
     I won't give in to it, though, for that's a dangerous indulgence.  Twice
before in Elfquest's history Wendy and I came to a finishing place - once, right
after the original quest ended and again, after SIEGE AT BLUE MOUNTAIN was
completed - and each time the business of comic books and the market for comic
books changed while we were occupied elsewhere.  And, in my opinion, not
necessarily for the better.
     So no, Elfquest won't go away at the end of March, even though this round
of tales will conclude.  What next?  Hey, any artist or writer will tell you
that the scariest thing in the entire world is a blank sheet of paper.  That's
what Warp Graphics has in front of it at this moment.  In a few weeks the comics
specialty store distributors will be wanting news about their April offerings,
but for now...
     For now, actually, I'm rather relishing the feeling of being confronted
with a _tabula_rasa_.  A clean slate.  I'm marinating in the many sensations
that accompany the prospect of getting away from "the way it's always been done"
and opening up to a stream of new possibilities.  Letting go the familiar and
the comfortable can be scary, but it can be tinglingly exciting at the same
time.  Never mind "can be."  It most assuredly _is_.
     Comic books.  Magazines.  Books.  Monthly.  Quarterly.  Annual.  Big.
Little.  Color.  Black and white.  Movies.  Television.  By Two-Spear's shaft,
it's good to have options!
     Because at the bottom of it all I do love Elfquest.  As a world, as a
template for the telling of stories that have personal meaning, there's nothing
else like it out there and I'm still its most ardent fan.
     So what's in store?  Well, you can keep tabs right here Elfquest comics -
any and all of our titles.  Or if you're of a mind to get the jump on the rest
of the world, you can visit Elfquest's World Wide Web site at
http://www.elfquest.com.
     Hmm.  Perhaps I should check that one out myself - things have been so
hectic around here lately that the answers I'm looking for may already be
waiting there.
     Hey, EQ - Happy Birthday!  Let's party!

                                                  Richard A. Pini

--- MacWoof Eval:23Dec93
 * Origin: William Bull Hedrick @ Hawk Haven's Orbital Point (1:362/708.6)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 112 of 285
 From : Rudy Hardy                          2:293/2602.24   .ÿò 26 .íâ 96 16:47
 To   : Boris CDuke
 Subj : Space: Above & Beyond Episode List
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Hello Boris,

Thursday 11 January 1996, Boris CDuke wrote to Rudy Hardy:

 RH>> Does someone have the episode list of the series "Space: Above &
 RH>> Beyond". Thanks in advance.

 BC> I would appreciate to get one as well.

Here's the list:

Space: Above and Beyond  created by Glen Morgan and James Wong
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Ep#.    Air Date    Episode Title
====  ============  ================================
  1.  Sep 24, 1995  "Pilot" [2 hours]
  2.  Oct  1, 1995  "The Farthest Man From Home"
  3.  Oct  8, 1995  "The Dark Side Of The Sun"
  4.  Oct 15, 1995  "Mutiny"
  5.  Oct 22, 1995  "Ray Butts"
  6.  Oct 29, 1995  "Eyes"
  7.  Nov 12, 1995  "The Enemy"
  8.  Nov 19, 1995  "Hostile Visit" (Part 1 of 2)
  9.  Nov 26, 1995  "Choice Or Chance" (Part 2 of 2)
 10.  Dec  3, 1995  "Stay With The Dead"
 11.  Dec 17, 1995  "The River Of Stars"

But I heard something that the show will be cancelled...

Good Bye,

   Rudy.

--- GoldED/2 2.50
 * Origin: Trust No One (2:293/2602.24)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 113 of 285
 From : Chris Carter                        1:105/290.23    .óá 27 .íâ 96 06:39
 To   : Robert Siemborski
 Subj : Babylon 5
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On (25 Jan 96) Robert Siemborski wrote to Anders Danebo...

 RS> The lurker's guide if you have WWW access:

 RS> http://www.hyperion.com/lurk

 RS> Don't know the EXACT URL, but it is listed on the main page.

Here it is...

     http://www.hyperion.com/lurk/lurker.html

The Hyperion FTP site is at:

     ftp://ftp.hyperion.com/pub/Babylon-5

Hope this helps... :)

Chris - carter@teleport.com


... Whale oil beef hooked!

--- PPoint 2.00
 * Origin: Grid Epsilon Coords. 105x290x23 (1:105/290.23)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 114 of 285
 From : Chris Baugh                         1:105/290.5     .ÿò 26 .íâ 96 20:45
 To   : Tommy Kellerman
 Subj : UFO
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 TK> Tonight, about 6 P.M. CMT (Central Meridian Time) I was on my way home
 TK> from the bus-station when I noticed a strange-looking "star"...

If this isn't a science fiction short story, you might like to look
for echoes like UFO, BAMA and NIGHT_SHIFT where there are many folks
eager to discuss unusual sightings.

--- PPoint 1.98
 * Origin: - (1:105/290.5)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 115 of 285
 From : Chris Baugh                         1:105/290.5     .ÿò 26 .íâ 96 20:50
 To   : Frank Swarbrick
 Subj : weird tv
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 FS> Anyway, what other "weird" tv shows are out there?

Strange Luck, the new lead-in to the X-Files.

Would you include weird comedy?
Monty Python's Flying Circus
Kids in the Hall
Mystery Science Theater 3000
Whose Line is it Anyway?

--- PPoint 1.98
 * Origin: - (1:105/290.5)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 116 of 285
 From : Chris Baugh                         1:105/290.5     .ÿò 26 .íâ 96 20:54
 To   : Todd Sullivan
 Subj : LA water
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 TS> You need not look it up. For concrete, palpable evidence, a
 TS> trip to the Altamont Pass (Interstate 5) should do it. There
 TS> are a number of pumping stations along the California
 TS> Aqueduct to lift northern water over the pass and deliver it
 TS> to the San Fernado Valley. An interesting sight, at the very
 TS> least.

Ah, thanks for the info!

--- PPoint 1.98
 * Origin: - (1:105/290.5)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 117 of 285
 From : Anders Danebo                       2:201/190       .óá 27 .íâ 96 19:35
 To   : Robert Siemborski
 Subj : Re: Babylon 5
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

RS >  The lurker's guide if you have WWW access:

RS >  http://www.hyperion.com/lurk

RS >  Don't know the EXACT URL, but it is listed on the main
RS >  page.

Thanx ,i may get hold of a internet account soon so it is usefull...
Thank you once again

/Anders Danebo



--- GEcho 1.00
 * Origin: (2:201/190)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 118 of 285
 From : Frank Glover                        1:2613/477      .cê 28 .íâ 96 17:44
 To   : Chris Ogniben
 Subj : Re: Star Trek
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

CO>  episode as you want to see it.  More than to accept what you see and
CO>  try to enjoy it.  Without exspecting so much from it, or else you
CO>  just
CO>  don't get the same entertainment qaulity, since you critize to much,
CO>  that you just loose out in the entertinament of the episode.

   You didn't quote any part of the other person's message, so I didn't see what
brought this on. But keep in mind that it *is* possible to watch and enjoy any
or all of Star Trek's incarnations (as I do), and still be critical of those
things one finds wrong with it (as I do). Star Trek is good, but like anything
else, it could be better.

   Frank


--- QuickBBS 2.80 GoldBase (Zeta-1)
 * Origin: The Matrix Data Bank BBS, Rochester, Ny (1:2613/477)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 119 of 285
 From : Nicolai Shapero                     1:102/524       .cê 28 .íâ 96 07:57
 To   : Frank Swarbrick
 Subj : weird tv
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Jan 27 11:00>, Frank Swarbrick (1:104/825) wrote to Nicolai Shapero:

 FS>As for Weird Science, isn't that a comedy?  I've never watched it
 FS>(other than the original movie).  It looks so, well...stupid.

It is a comedy.  And sometimes it's reasonable...as well as funny.

-- Nicolai Shapero, the Mad Russian Sysop of StormGate Aerie

--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 120 of 285
 From : Nicolai Shapero                     1:102/524       .cê 28 .íâ 96 08:01
 To   : Chris Ogniben
 Subj : Re: Star Trek
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Jan 25 16:31>, Chris Ogniben (1:2604/568) wrote to Christian Raven:

 CO>  You sir are a scumbag!  And a loser!  And you call yourself a

Ahem.  If you cannot play nice, you may be forced to not play at all.  Watch
your language, sir, lest the moderator become annoyed at your behavior.

-- Nicolai Shapero, Moderator of the SFFAN echo

--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 121 of 285
 From : Nicolai Shapero                     1:102/524       .cê 28 .íâ 96 08:02
 To   : Chris Ogniben
 Subj : Re: Star Trek
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Jan 25 16:32>, Chris Ogniben (1:2604/568) wrote to Channon Lang:

 CO>   Hello!!!!!!!  Apparently you seem to be more stupider than i
 CO>thought.  Since, i just finished replying to you, to how much of
 CO>a
 CO>scumbag you are for attacking janeway.  And now you make another

This is one of a string of such messages, Chris.  I'm going to give you time to
see my comments (there is this thing called, net lag, you see...) and if I don't
see an immediate improvement in the tenor of your comments, I will become most
unamused.

-- Nicolai Shapero, Moderator of the SFFAN echo

--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 122 of 285
 From : Nicolai Shapero                     1:102/524       .cê 28 .íâ 96 08:04
 To   : Chris Ogniben
 Subj : Re: nuclear bs
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Excuse me, but this subject has been declared off topic, and you have had more
than enough time to see the message indicating said "off topic" status.

No further posts from you on this subject, please.

-- Nicolai Shapero, Moderator of the SFFAN echo

--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 123 of 285
 From : Kay Shapero                         1:102/524       .cê 28 .íâ 96 10:10
 To   : Glenn Shaheen
 Subj : Star Trek
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Jan 23 18:24>, Glenn Shaheen (1:3600/7) wrote to Kay Shapero:

 GS>climateclimate
KS>Which I find very hard to believe - no matter how you tilt the axis,
 GS>Unless it's like Venus, which has an almost constant surface
 GS>temperature
 GS>of 455 degrees Celsius due to the greenhouse effect.

There is that.  However, I doubt it explains Vulcan. :->

--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 124 of 285
 From : Paul Goverts                        1:2613/135      .cê 28 .íâ 96 20:55
 To   : Jon Helis
 Subj : NOWHERE MAN
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

-=> Quoting Jon Helis to Chris Myers <=-

 JH> Nowhere Man airs on the United Paramount Network(UPN), the same
 JH> outfit that airs Star Trek:Voyager.  The show comes on after
 JH> Voyager on Monday nights.  I don't know if it is aired on any
 JH> non-UPN stations like Voyager is.  Check your listings for it.

Yes, it is.  Our local FOX affialite has been running many of the UPN
programs as well.  Only problem is they show nowhere man like at 12:30AM
on Sunday nights...  STVOY they show in the evenings on the weekend
though.

Paul

... Happiness is a warm gun.
___ Blue Wave/DOS v2.21

--- QScan/PCB v1.18b / 01-0527
 * Origin: Wise BBS - Irondequoit, NY (1:2613/135)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 125 of 285
 From : Jerry Van Kooten                    2:280/901.37    .cê 28 .íâ 96 03:57
 To   : Phill Ash
 Subj : .ystertags...
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Hi Phill,

Quoting <Phill Ash> to <Jerry Van Kooten> (25-Jan-96, 09:42:16)
Subject: <Ùystertags...>

OK, last one off-topic; you got a Fido address? My addresses:
Fidonet  2:280/901.37
Internet jvkooten@pi.net

 PA> Ôystertags is a tagline file that I worked-up over the Xmas
 PA> doldrums... I took every lyric to every BÙC song ('cept "Wings of
 PA> Mercury") and formatted 'em into 70character taglines.  It's

All lyrics except Wings of Mercury. I haven't got that one neither.
But there are some more I'm missing, I believe.

 PA> version 1.1 because I'm still going back through and correcting
 PA> the spelling errors and all.  I think there're about 1500 tags
 PA> in the file (70k).  If ya got an Internet address, I'll zing you
 PA> a copy.

Great! If I can help you with anything concerning BOC, let me know!

 PA> Lessee... I've got just about everything they've put out except
 PA> "Live NY '72", Buck's solo album "Flat Out" and Joey's new
 PA> group's self-titled "Brain Surgeons".  I also don't have the
 PA> *latest* compilation set (not 'Cult Classics', the newer
 PA> one...), but I do have the "Bad Channels" soundtrack and the
 PA> "Live '76" cd and video.

I do have got the NY72; Flat Out has just been released on CD (French
division of Portrait); I didn't like Brian Surgeons too much, so I
didn't buy it; the latest compilation is worth buying for only two
songs (I recall - don't remember the exact reasons, but I'll find
out).

 PA> My handle on the Beast's Lair is "Thanatos" from (of course)
 PA> "The Reaper" and I'm teaching my 3year-old son to sing
 PA> "Godzilla" in the shower.

Including the Japanese parts?

 PA> Any other questions?  =)

Tapes?

 PA> thanatos@infi.net

Next time, no more BOC talk in this area.

See you,
Jerry

--- Terminate 3.00/Pro
 * Origin: the station was a-rockin', I was born on number nine (2:280/901.37)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 126 of 285
 From : Jerry Van Kooten                    2:280/901.37    .cê 28 .íâ 96 04:06
 To   : Otto Cordray
 Subj : The Guide and it's Incarnations...
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Hi Otto,

Quoting <Otto Cordray> to <Jerry Van Kooten> (26-Jan-96, 19:39:24)
Subject: <The Guide and it's Incarnations...>

 OC> By overpriced, I mean in the neighborhood of $20 per LP and there were
 OC> either
 OC> two or three LPs (definitely HHG on one LP by itself; I'm not sure if
 OC> 'Restaurant' and 'Life' were each on a separate LP or if they were
 OC> crammed
 OC> onto one...as I said, its been a while since I've seen them.)

OK, that's overpriced for a piece of vinyl...
The first record was a double, a 'slightly contracted version of the
first four episodes of the radio series', 'wholly new recordings'.
This was around 'the fall of 1979'.
Then, 'at roughly the same time' of fall of 1980, 'a second record
album was made, featuring a heavily rewritten and expanded version of
episodes 5 and 6 of the radio series; this record album was also
called The Restaurant At the End of the Universe.' Quotes from 'An
Introduction To the Guide', printed in the re-issues of the books.

Some other interesting quotes from that same chapter...
'I wrote a computer game for Infocom called THHGTTG'. This is the game
I was telling you about in a previous message.

See you,
Jerry
Fidonet: 2:280/901.37, Internet: jvkooten@pi.net

--- Terminate 3.00/Pro
 * Origin: There's an old droid saying: 001100101101001010001110 (2:280/901.37)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 127 of 285
 From : Otto Cordray                        1:106/1393      .îí 29 .íâ 96 17:59
 To   : Chris Baugh
 Subj : weird tv
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 FS> Anyway, what other "weird" tv shows are out there?
 CB> Would you include weird comedy?
 CB> Monty Python's Flying Circus

I would. Remember their "science fiction adventure" episode where the entire
population of Great Britain was turned into Scotsmen by a rather odd alien?

-Otto

--- Maximus/2 3.01
 * Origin: The Round Table, BBS of Gulf Coast Mensa * 922-1393 (1:106/1393)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 128 of 285
 From : Ken Mayes                           1:393/7         .îí 29 .íâ 96 17:00
 To   : Chris Ogniben
 Subj : Re: Star Trek
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On Thu 25-Jan-1996  4:31p, Chris Ogniben said to Christian Raven:

CO>
CO>   You sir are a scumbag!  And a loser!  And you call yourself a trek
CO> fan, why don't you just go to your toilet and suck the water out, and
CO> then rinse your stinking mouth with soap and water.

        My, my. What ever happened to the old Star Trek Philosophy of IDIC?
Infinite Diversity. Not everyone is going to agree on everything. But the beauty
in life comes from listening to other's viewpoints and even if you don't agree
with them, at least accepting that that person has a right to them.


CO> we do respect her, and what she does.  And there is nothing wrong with
CO> the crew of voyager.  If you can't live

        No comment. I don't agree with your statement...but you have a right to
hold that belief. See how easy that was? The new word for today is...


        Tolerance.


:)



--- CNet/3
 * Origin: The Bard's Tavern Denton, TX (817)243-5110 USR 28.8   (1:393/7)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 129 of 285
 From : Kevin Ahearn                        1:109/104       .îí 29 .íâ 96 19:20
 To   : Kim Wheat
 Subj : Star Trek
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 KW>  * Origin: From Trekkies & from B5ers who hate Trek save us! (1:271/285.0)

LOL!!  GREAT tagline, Kim!  Perhaps we should talk Nicolai into adding this to
the official SFFAN rules...

--Kevin

--- Maximus/2 3.01
 * Origin: ShanErin (1:109/104)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 130 of 285
 From : Jon Helis                           1:3800/25       .îí 15 .íâ 96 20:55
 To   : Eric Reinholt
 Subj : Re: Star Trek and others
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 -=> Quoting Eric Reinholt to Jon Helis <=-

 JH> There is an English translation of "R.U.R." available?  I've
 JH> been wanting to read this for a very long time.  Where were you
 JH> able to find such a gem?

 ER> Grab (if you can find it) "Great Tales of Science Fiction"
 ER> compiled by Robert Silverberg and Martin H. Greenberg published
 ER> by Galahad Books.

 ER> Published in 1985.

 ER> Galahad Books
 ER> 149 Madison Avenue
 ER> New York, New York 10016

 ER> ISBN: 0-88365-701-5 (with this number, your local book store
 ER> can tell you if they can get the book!)

 ER> It contains:

 ER> "Mellonta Tauta" Edgar Allan Poe
 ER> "In the Year 288" Jules Verne
 ER> "Sold to Satan" Mark Twain
 ER> "The New Accelerator" H.G. Wells
 ER> "Finis" Frank Lillie Pollack
 ER> "As Easy as A.B.C." Rudyard Kipling
 ER> "Dark Lot of One Saul" M.P. Shiel
 ER> "R.U.R." Karel Capek

 ER> and lots others including Asimov, Sheckley, Leiber, Poul
 ER> Anderson, Alfred Bester, Sturgeon, Saberhagen, Philip Jose
 ER> Farmer, Clarke, Silverberg and more!

Thanks alot!  I've been wanting to read R.U.R for a long time,
but have never been able to find it.  When I was younger, I had
a fascination with robots, and when I heard about R.U.R., I
wanted to read it, but couldn't.

On another subject regarding R.U.R., has it ever been made into
a film?  Just wondering.




... New computer?  But I like my vacuum tubes, they keep me warm!
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

--- PCBoard (R) v15.22/M 10
 * Origin: * DataCom BBS - Baton Rouge, La. -  (504)275-2605 - @dcbbs.com *
(1:3800/25)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 131 of 285
 From : Jon Helis                           1:3800/25       .òp 16 .íâ 96 02:09
 To   : Mark Jones
 Subj : Re: Star Trek
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 -=> Quoting Mark Jones to Kay Shapero <=-

 MJ> On (20 Jan 96) Kay Shapero wrote to Christian Raven...

 MJ> Last week's episode of VOYAGER, in which they encountered the damaged
 MJ> robot drifting in space, and repaired it, pretty much summed up what's
 MJ> wrong with VOYAGER.

 MJ> They find the robot.  They retrieve the robot.  They examine the
 MJ> robot.  Then B'Lanna spends a quarter of the program trying one
 MJ> double-talk gimmick after another to try to fix it.  She whines to
 MJ> Janeway.  She whines to the holo-doc.  She complains to Neelix.

When she whined to the holodoc, it gave them a chance to use
McCoy's old line, "I'm a doctor, not a ..."





... I used to live in the real world, but I got evicted.
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

--- PCBoard (R) v15.22/M 10
 * Origin: * DataCom BBS - Baton Rouge, La. -  (504)275-2605 - @dcbbs.com *
(1:3800/25)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 132 of 285
 From : Brian Stoll                         1:260/805       .pä 24 .íâ 96 23:30
 To   : OTTO CORDRAY
 Subj : The Guide and it's In
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Hi,
sorry to jump in here, but the radio broadcasts are available at
bookstores. I remember seeing them at Waldenbooks in a little box set.
I too enjoyed them from the radio, and listen to them everyonce in a
while.
Brian


... "42? 7 and a half million years and all you can come up with is 42?!"

---
 þ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20 [NR] þ
 * Origin: Little Italy BBS (607) 737-1432 1:260/805 (1:260/805)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 133 of 285
 From : Chris Ogniben                       1:2604/568      .îí 29 .íâ 96 11:07
 To   : Frank Glover
 Subj : Re: vicotry!
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

   Of course your right, it's not real.  But, the point here is the
factor of realism of all that we seen as if it were real on your
television screen.  And i been debating this warp 10 with tons of
people that are stupid, to realize that warp 10 can't be done.  And
that the warp scale was changed, during that two hour season finale,
where in that alternate future that ships were going warp 13, but, that
was a warp scale change.  So, i back myself up again and again on the
subject that warp 10 can't be done.  And i think that even if tonights
episode turns out to bring a different truth to light, i will be very
angry, if they make it seem possible or possible to go warp 10.  But, i
would then have to calm down, and realize that all of this is not real,
and that it really doesn't matter does it.


--- WM v3.11/93-0947
 * Origin: Waterside BBS - NJ - (201) 641-5375 28.8k  (1:2604/568)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 134 of 285
 From : Chris Ogniben                       1:2604/568      .îí 29 .íâ 96 11:10
 To   : Frank Swarbrick
 Subj : Re: SLIDERS/ANY NEWS?
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

   Yeah, it was like night rider, without the talking car.  It was
based on a new Dodge Viper car, which was silver in color.  And this
guy was using it, with special computers and weapons in order to do his
job to fight crime or whatever.  I really enjoyed it, Mantis was pretty
good, but, i guess you could say those shows bombed.  But, i really
like STRANGE LUCK..  And i am hoping that it stays for a long time,
since it really seems to me to be the best show yet, equal to x-files.


--- WM v3.11/93-0947
 * Origin: Waterside BBS - NJ - (201) 641-5375 28.8k  (1:2604/568)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 135 of 285
 From : Chris Ogniben                       1:2604/568      .îí 29 .íâ 96 11:11
 To   : Shawn Merrow
 Subj : Re: Space: Above & Beyond
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

   Can you excatly like just give me a bit more of what happened in the
episode "Who Moniters the Birds"  Since, i don't remember them just
right off the back of my mind.  Just tell me a bit of what happened in
the episode, and then i would remember and then we continue talking
about it.


--- WM v3.11/93-0947
 * Origin: Waterside BBS - NJ - (201) 641-5375 28.8k  (1:2604/568)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 136 of 285
 From : Shane Carson                        1:2604/568      .îí 29 .íâ 96 11:38
 To   : Chris Ogniben
 Subj : quotes
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Would you PLEASE learn how to quote! You post dozens of replies in here,
and nobody knows what the hell you are talking about!


--- WM v3.11/93-0947
 * Origin: Waterside BBS - NJ - (201) 641-5375 28.8k  (1:2604/568)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 137 of 285
 From : Chip Griffin                        1:320/301       .óá 27 .íâ 96 10:20
 To   : Bianca Wesslak
 Subj : Re: nuclear BS
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On 01/27/96 (@10:15:30) Bianca Wesslak typed:

BW>  So what happened to the parts.  The question I am trying to get at is:
BW> Did  any of the whatever powers a nuclear sub, obviously nuclear energy,
BW> What   contains that nuclear energy break up, and is it floating about the
BW> sea?  Since you know so much about the nuclear submarines, I'll ask another
BW>  question, you know anything of any of the waste that we dumped in the
BW> marinara trench??  I've heard rumors that we have dumped barrells of
BW> radiative waste down there, along with other stuff?

None of it is floating anywhere, all of it is too heavy for that.  Suposedly
they have gone down and looked at them and both were in tact enough to contain
all the nuclear "pieces parts".

I know nothing of any dumping in the Marianas Trench although I suspect is
another demented rambling of some organization like Greenpeace.  I know the
Soviets did some dumping at one time, but they got in big trouble with the
international arena when it was brought to light.  I'm not saying that the US
has never done it, but I assure you that anyone caught would be in severe
trouble with the EPA for starters.

de Chip [N1MIE] President of TRAUG         quarry@q.continuum.net


--- MacKennel 2.2.1
 * Origin: The Quarry: 860-889-6427 -- Amateur Radio & Mac User (1:320/301.0)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 138 of 285
 From : Chip Griffin                        1:320/301       .óá 27 .íâ 96 10:20
 To   : Bianca Wesslak
 Subj : Re: nuclear BS
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On 01/27/96 (@10:20:09) Bianca Wesslak typed:

CG> de Chip [N1MIE] President of TRAUG         quarry@q.continuum.net
BW>  What is TRAUG??

TRAUG = Thames River Apple Users Group

A group of Mac and Apple II users sharing their computer experience and
expertise so that we all get more from our computers.

de Chip [N1MIE] President of TRAUG         quarry@q.continuum.net


--- MacKennel 2.2.1
 * Origin: The Quarry: 860-889-6427 -- Amateur Radio & Mac User (1:320/301.0)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 139 of 285
 From : Mark Jones                          1:105/302.47    .óá 27 .íâ 96 13:37
 To   : Chris Ogniben
 Subj : Star Trek
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On (25 Jan 96) Chris Ogniben wrote to Christian Raven...

 CO>   You sir are a scumbag!  And a loser!  And you call yourself a trek

 CO> you are a big disgrace to those that read your reply here.  Since, you

 CO> the crew of voyager.  If you can't live with it, then you are a racial
 CO> scumbag.  You needs to be shot on sight.  Since, you are a very low

To quote Chris Carter, PLONK!

Welcome to my twitfile.  Your generally incoherent, poorly written
messages were bad enough.  I usually didn't read them anyhow.  But now
I think I'll just toss them into the void completely unseen.

Have a nice life.


--- PPoint 1.78
 * Origin: Folcroft Sanitarium (hsmith@cure.com) (1:105/302.47)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 140 of 285
 From : Mark Jones                          1:105/302.47    .îí 29 .íâ 96 00:37
 To   : Owen E. Oulton
 Subj : nuclear
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On (26 Jan 96) Owen E. Oulton wrote to Bianca Wesslak...

 OE> The only way you could have a total, non-restorable, loss of
 OE> electricity would be if there were a fundamental change in the laws of
 OE> physics.  In this case, everyone would be dead, since life itself is
 OE> an electrochemical process.
 OE>
 OE> Now, can we *ALL* drop this bloody stupid debate and get back to
 OE> discussing SF?

This discussion, at least, could be considered SF-related.  Or
Fantasy-related, anyhow.  Stephen Boyett's ARIEL:  THE BOOK OF THE
CHANGE takes place on an earth where the laws of physics changed one
day.  Technology (anything electrical or electronic, and guns to name
two big ones) stopped functioning--and magic became possible.  Magical
monsters (griffins, unicorns, dragons) roam the land, and sorcerors
began to appear, working spells and summoning demons.

It's an excellent novel, and one I recommend to everyone.


--- PPoint 1.78
 * Origin: Folcroft Sanitarium (hsmith@cure.com) (1:105/302.47)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 141 of 285
 From : Mark Jones                          1:105/302.47    .îí 29 .íâ 96 00:44
 To   : Phill Ash
 Subj : Star Trek
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On (27 Jan 96) Phill Ash wrote to Mark Jones...

 PA>         My gripe is this:
 PA>
 PA>         Now that Torres is capable of constructing a 'sub'Soong-class
 PA>         android, will she do so?
 PA>
 PA>         She scanned all of its systems, so those are available for
 PA>         replication or 'hard' construction.
 PA>
 PA>         She knows how to reverse the cyber-vasectomy.
 PA>
 PA>         The Doc could use a real body (and a name).

   You know--this thought never crossed my mind.  But you're quite
right.  B'Lanna could very easily construct a physical body for the
doctor.  It shouldn't be difficult at all for her to set it up so that
he can operate it remotely (or, for that matter, for her to install an
on-board computer to run his program--less the holographic imaging).

   Given the (in my opinion, quite deliberate) backwardness of the
Federation when it comes to cybernetics, I don't think they'd ever use
this knowledge to produce spare crewmen, though.

   Still, building *one* robot body for the doctor would at least give
them an excuse for letting him roam the ship (or various planets).


--- PPoint 1.78
 * Origin: Folcroft Sanitarium (hsmith@cure.com) (1:105/302.47)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 142 of 285
 From : Chris Carter                        1:105/290.23    .òp 30 .íâ 96 05:49
 To   : David Little
 Subj : Star Wars Novelizations
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On (27 Jan 96) David Little wrote to James Walton...

 DL> You couldn't have considering the novelization wasn't released
 DL> till after the movie came out

The first edition of STAR WARS was available in late 1976, before
the movie was released.  (This is why first eds. are so valuable.
Not many were sold until after the movie became successful, by which
time the second edition was already printing.)

 DL> and Lucas didn't even write it. Alan Dean Foster ghost wrote
 DL> the novel. Lucas explains this in "Skywalking".

This is correct.

Chris - carter@teleport.com


... "Information Superhighway?  You're posting in it!"

--- PPoint 2.00
 * Origin: Grid Epsilon Coords. 105x290x23 (1:105/290.23)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 143 of 285
 From : Phill Ash                           1:275/160       .îí 29 .íâ 96 08:46
 To   : Nicolai Shapero
 Subj : nuclear
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE 1.11+
From astride a Pale Horse, ùANATúô heard...

 NS> This subject has been declared off topic.  Please return to the
 NS> subject  matter of this conference (science fiction and science fiction
 NS> fandom) in  future posts.

 NS> Thank you for your cooperation,

 NS> -- Nicolai Shapero, Moderator of the SFFAN echo

        Yeeaahhhh!!!!!

        (The Harvester pulls a pint for Nicolai) <G>


Your pal:  PhlAsh
... Not everybody cooperates, and I'll say if they wanna play rough:
---
 * Ùystertags v1.1 *
~~~ ReneWave v1.01 [NR]
--- Smile :)
 * Origin: * The Beast's Lair * (804)498-3070 * Va Beach VA * (1:275/160)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 144 of 285
 From : Frank Swarbrick                     1:104/825       .cê 28 .íâ 96 22:28
 To   : Brion Lienhart
 Subj : weird tv
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12  92-0022
On 01-26-96  07:34 my Very Good Friend Brion Lienhart said:

 BL> Oh yeah, don't forget Eerie Indiana. I liked to motto of their police
 BL> dept. "To  Protect and Control."

Forgot that one.  Thanks!  I see they show it on the Disney Channel
sometimes, but I haven't watched it since it originally aired...

        Frank

... "It's too late for salvation." --Sheriff Lucas Buck
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12
 * Origin: The Bailey Information Exchange BBS, 28.8k v.fc  (1:104/825.0)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 145 of 285
 From : Frank Swarbrick                     1:104/825       .cê 28 .íâ 96 22:41
 To   : Robert Lidgren
 Subj : X-FILES
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12  92-0022
On 01-27-96  09:50 my Very Good Friend Robert Lidgren said:

 -> RL> American Gothic RL> Nowhere Man RL> Strange Luck
 -> RL> I wonder which ones will survive the on-going "shake-down?"
 -> Hmm, I like all three.  But of the three I'd be least sad to see Strange
 -> Luck gone.  Still, I'd rather see all of them survive.

 RL> DID YOU SEE THE MOST RECENT EPISODE OF X-FILES TITLED: Syzygy?

I did indeed.  I even looked up that word in the dictionary.

syzygy: a pair of things, eps. a pair of opposites

[deleted]

 RL> These were the words spoken by Fox Mulder near the end of the episode
 RL> which seem strangely sombre considering the hilarity and "fun" which
 RL> Chris Carter wrote into this script.  The sparring between Mulder and
 RL> Scully reached new heights and Scully's jealousy even reached the
 RL> point where she complained to Mulder about being "ditched" by him when
 RL> he went off another female detective to so some "investigating" on
 RL> their own.

This episode really threw me for a loop.  It took me quite a bit in to
the episode to figure out why Scully was been such a snot.  Of course,
by the time we saw Scully smoking a cigarette and Mulder drinking a,
what, screwdriver? I had finally figured it out, mostly.  It was
definately a bizzare episode!

 RL> I have read masses of messages from the X-Files digest on this episode
 RL> and the responses were mixed but, gee, it was an entertaining addition
 RL> to the X-Files canon!  Even the quips about who should "drive" had me
 RL> LOL.

I wouldn't call it one of the best, but it was definately good.  I'm
surprised they showed it so close to "War of the Coprophages," the
most recent new one before this, which was also a laugh riot.  Still,
I'm glad to see they still have their sense of humor.  A lot of people
were saying earlier in this season that it wasn't as good as the last
two, but with recent episodes I'd have to disagree.  It's as great as
ever!

I also liked it having female villans, something they rarely do.
There's "Eve," of course, but I can't think of any others offhand.
Oh, the demon in "Die Hand, Die Verletzt."  Maybe another somewhere,
but not many.  I was leery of all the teens in the episode (see
"D.P.O."), but it was pretty well done.

        Frank

... Heaven is waiting and waiting is Hell.
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12
 * Origin: The Bailey Information Exchange BBS, 28.8k v.fc  (1:104/825.0)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 146 of 285
 From : Don Dellmann                        1:154/40        .òp 30 .íâ 96 19:02
 To   : Scott Royall
 Subj : Dangerous Babes
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
While tripping merrily through the mail, Scott Royall was overheard

 MJ> 2.  She's mighty cute (in a different way than Xena).

 SR> I'll roger that.  There's something about Gabrielle I find endearing.
 SR> She's cute and spunky, sorta like my first ex.

I started a Xena thread over in FIDO_FILM a few months back with the
comment that I had a "crush" on Gabrielle. <G>

She is central to the theme of the story.  In the very first episode I seem
to recall that Gabrielle wanted to be "just like Xena", but in actuality,
it was Xena who found she really wanted to be "innocent" like Gabrielle
was.

I think Gabrielle is actually the "anchor" that Xena needed to "change her
life around", and to recapture the "good" that she was looking for.  Without
Gabrielle, Xena would probably revert back to the amoral mercenary she once
was.

Don


... Total spiritual enlightenment helps me score with chicks.
---
 * Origin: Anonymous BBS -=- Non plus Ultra -=- 414-251-2580 (1:154/40)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 147 of 285
 From : Todd Sullivan                       1:202/720.3     .îí 29 .íâ 96 22:53
 To   : Chris Ogniben
 Subj : nuclear bs
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
While substituting for Q, Chris Ogniben took extreme delight in saying to David
Durgee, "You'll do anything I say?"  David quailed when the words "nuclear bs"
were uttered.

 CO>
 CO>    For your information, that one Nuculear power planet is enough to
 CO> wipe out about a 1000 or more people if it explodes.  So, i think it
 CO> would be best to keep the number limited for these types of plants to

And for your information, you're as ignorant of nukes as any fool out there.

Nicolai declared this off-topic.  Drop it now.

Todd Sullivan

... "The people never give up their liberties but under some delusion."
     --Edmund Burke

-*- ASTG 1.9

--- Spot 1.3a Unregistered
 * Origin: Todd's Spot in the Continuum (1:202/720.3)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 148 of 285
 From : Todd Sullivan                       1:202/720.3     .îí 29 .íâ 96 23:05
 To   : Chris Ogniben
 Subj : BS!!
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
While substituting for Q, Chris Ogniben took extreme delight in saying to David
Johnston, "You'll do anything I say?"  David quailed when the words "Nuclear"
were uttered.

 CO>
 CO>    I still say that the human race, is very vunerable to be taken over
 CO> by another race.  And the reason is that we are weak, though many
 CO> people say that we are not.  But, we are.  And an alien race that is

When you dry out, maybe you'll stop this "anthro-bashing" of yours.  Just
remember, Jim, you're just another of us weaklings.  Go to the slaughter like a
little lamb while those of us with backbones go on with living.

Todd Sullivan

... "Oh wearisome condition of humanity!  Born under one law, to another
     bound." --Lord Brooke

-*- ASTG 1.9

--- Spot 1.3a Unregistered
 * Origin: Todd's Spot in the Continuum (1:202/720.3)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 149 of 285
 From : Emilio Ares                         1:379/1         .òp 30 .íâ 96 21:24
 To   : Chris Ogniben
 Subj : Re: SLIDERS/ANY NEWS?
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE 1.11+

-=> Quoting Chris Ogniben to Emilio Ares <=-

 CO>
 CO> Excuse me, are you guys fans of Strange Luck, and seen all the new

Yes, I am a fan of Strange Luck.  Interesting show to say the least.  I
have seen most if not all of the episodes.

 CO> episodes.  If i were FOX, i would air Sliders on Thursday night at 8
 CO> pm.  Since there really isn't anything else to watch on thursday
 CO> night, other than a thursday night prime movie, on HBO, at 9 pm.  This

If Fox aired Sliders on Thurdays at 8:00 they would up against NBC's award
winning comedy line-up.  Not smart unless they want Sliders to
self-destruct.

 CO> way, Voyager is on monday.  Tuesday is Deadly Games, and Wednsday is
 CO> SeaQuest, Thursday Sliders and Friday's Strange Luck and X files.  ANd

OK, let's see...Deadly Games - hasn't this been canceled?  SeaQuest -
definitely canceled.  Voyager - OK but could use some work (Nowhere Man is
better).  You didn't mention Babylon 5 or Space:Above and Beyond or Star
Trek Deep Space 9 or Highlander.  Do you have anything against these shows?

 CO> i am a big fan of the show strange luck, and looking to talk about
 CO> some of the past episodes with anyone else who is a fan of it.  And i
 CO> don't want FOX to get rid of Strange Luck, which is as good as X-Files,

Strange Luck is good but I don't think it's as good as X-Files.

 CO> to put in Sliders.  If they do that, i would be very angry at all the
 CO> slider fans out there.

Why?  The people who like Sliders all like X-Files, too, more than likely.
I know I do.

Emilio


... A good bookshop is just a genteel Black Hole that knows how to read.
--- GEcho 1.11+
 * Origin: The Transporter Room - Online Doom! - 704/567-9513 (1:379/1)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 150 of 285
 From : Emilio Ares                         1:379/1         .òp 30 .íâ 96 21:24
 To   : Chris Ogniben
 Subj : Re: X-files
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE 1.11+

-=> Quoting Chris Ogniben to Emilio Ares <=-

 CO>
 CO> Though it was a very interesting idea, for aliens to use bugs as
 CO> little robots to observe earth, that i find it to be stupid idea also.
 CO> Since, it deals with bugs, why not just use something else, like a
 CO> bird, or a bigger animal.

Ah, but you don't see the beauty of using bugs in this type of a mission.

1) You don't notice these things very often.

2) They can get places and see things birds or bigger animals can't.

Emilio



... -=>> My other sentient killing machine is a BOLO <<=-
--- GEcho 1.11+
 * Origin: The Transporter Room - Online Doom! - 704/567-9513 (1:379/1)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 151 of 285
 From : Emilio Ares                         1:379/1         .òp 30 .íâ 96 21:24
 To   : Frank Glover
 Subj : Re: VIRTUAL SEX
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE 1.11+

-=> Quoting Frank to Christian Raven on 14 Jan 96  15:06:07

 concerning VIRTUAL SEX<=-



 CR>  that teaches us that these are sick.  I'm not going to sit here and
 CR>  seriously condone sexual sadism, but if it's all part of the male
 CR>  psyche then perhaps crimes could be prevented through VR sex, eh?
 FG>
 FG> Or explored as a psychiatric tool. (It's already been applied to
 FG> treat those with a fear of heights.)
 FG> Or...as a conditioning/brainwashing tool. Which brings us back to
 FG> Brainstorm, and a Next Generation episode where the Romulans captured
 FG> Geordi, and fed him selected inputs through his Visor connections....

It also brings in A Clockwork Orange where Alex is conditioned to become
violently ill in response to violence and violent impulses.

Emilio



... Kzinti Diplomatic Corps - Let's do lunch
--- GEcho 1.11+
 * Origin: The Transporter Room - Online Doom! - 704/567-9513 (1:379/1)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 152 of 285
 From : Emilio Ares                         1:379/1         .òp 30 .íâ 96 21:24
 To   : Jon Helis
 Subj : Re: VIRTUAL SEX
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE 1.11+

-=> Quoting Jon to Frank Glover on 14 Jan 96  11:18:00

 concerning VIRTUAL SEX<=-


 JH> Has anyone ever read a Ray Bradbury story called "The Veldt?"
 JH> An adaptation of it appeared in the film "The Illustrated Man."

A VERY good adaptation of the story.

 JH> This story told of a children's playroom in which fantasies
 JH> would appear.  The parents let the children spend all their time
 JH> in this room, where they would fantasize about lions devouring
 JH> the parents who wouldn't let them do what they wanted to.
 JH> That's another part of the story I won't go into for those of
 JH> you who haven't read it.

 JH> This room, which was like a crude holodeck, substituted for the
 JH> real world.  It would show any image you wanted, simply by
 JH> thinking it.  The parents, by letting them spend all their time
 JH> in this room, let this room become the parents.  In the end,
 JH> when they tried to stop it, the damage had already been done.

This makes one think, doesn't it?  What are we using as substitute parents
in our present day and age?  How many of us parents are guilty of letting
our children sit in front of the television set or a video game for hours
at a time?  How much time do we spend reading with our children or playing
some of the board games we used to play as children ourselves?  Is it any
surprise that our society is the way it is?

The problem is that when I read what I wrote above, I accuse myself of the
same things.  I'm just as guilty of this as anyone else.  The difference is
that I AM trying to change the situation.  Realizing that a problem exists
is always the first step in any solution.

I'm off my soapbox now.

Emilio


 JH> ... "Never fear answers. Only fear running out of questions." Ivanova

This goes along with ...



... "You live and learn, or you don't live long." -- Heinlein
--- GEcho 1.11+
 * Origin: The Transporter Room - Online Doom! - 704/567-9513 (1:379/1)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 153 of 285
 From : Emilio Ares                         1:379/1         .òp 30 .íâ 96 21:24
 To   : Chris Ogniben
 Subj : Re: X-files
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE 1.11+

-=> Quoting Chris to Chris Bach on 19 Jan 96  06:34:33

 concerning X-files<=-

 CO> And as for Weird science, apparently i never got
 CO> hooked to that series.  I mean, i just like real quality sci fi stuff,
 CO> and i think the weird science show is not real good quality sci fi
 CO> show.  And, that is why i don't watch it.

I agree with you here.  Weird Science is not a quality SF show.  I don't
think it's supposed to be a quality SF show.  It's just another adolescent
fantasy fulfillment show that abound on the networks.

Speaking of good quality SF, what have you read in the genre?  What authors
do you enjoy?

I prefer Larry Niven, Jerry Pournelle, and Robert Heinlein mostly though I
have read quite a few others.  It mostly depends on the story though
(doesn't it always?).

Emilio





... To kidnap a Kzin is probably a mistake.
--- GEcho 1.11+
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Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 154 of 285
 From : Brion Lienhart                      1:213/700.2     .òp 30 .íâ 96 11:16
 To   : Frank Swarbrick
 Subj : weird tv
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On Sat Jan 27, Frank Swarbrick said to Nicolai Shapero:

 -FS>As for Weird Science, isn't that a comedy?  I've never watched it
 -FS>(other than the original movie).  It looks so, well...stupid.

Yes, it's a comedy, and yes it's stupid. That doesn't mean it's bad though. I
like it anyway.




--- QM v1.31
 * Origin: Ministry of Peace - Carson City, NV (1:213/700.2)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 155 of 285
 From : Brion Lienhart                      1:213/700.2     .òp 30 .íâ 96 11:26
 To   : Kay Shapero
 Subj : Books
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On Sat Jan 27, Kay Shapero said to Frank Glover:

 FG>   Just for my curiosity, have you read (and if so, what did you
 FG>think of) David Brin's `Glory Season?"

 -KS>Haven't read it yet.  I think it's in the TRQ, but can't check at the
 -KS>moment.  I'm still reading Mary Gentle's GRUNTS at the moment.  I
 -KS>recommend it as an antidote to one too many Tolkien-rip-off generic
 -KS>fantasies.. :->  Mind you, it contains characters who, for the most
 -KS>part, you'd be quite happy to sling into the abyss and put a lid on
 -KS>it.

I second the nomination of _Glory Season_. Have you read _Brightness Reef_ yet?
It's obviously the first book of a series, but I liked it anyway. Ends on a
major cliff-hanger.

As for _Grunts_ I guess I haven't read too many Tolkien-rip-off generic
fantasies, because I didn't care for it at all. I generally try to avoid the
TROGFs, I can usually tell by the covers. When it mentions the lowly farmboy on
a quest for the ceramic nose-flute of Agamoto to save the universe, I give it a
miss. That's the main reason I passed on David Eddings books for so long.




--- QM v1.31
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 Msg  : 156 of 285
 From : Ecarey                              1:101/230       .îí 29 .íâ 96 07:16
 To   : Christian Raven
 Subj : STAR TREK
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
CR>KS> So maybe they've stopped using the silly definitions to define real  liv
CR>KS> people, as opposed to theoreticaly abstracts?  Heck, I can give  orders
CR>KS> and I'm female (!) and heterosexual (!!) and not even trying to be a  ma
CR>KS> (!!!).  Wouldn't want to, really - not that men are bad necessarily  (I'
CR>KS> married to one), but I'm perfectly happy with the sex I've got.

CR>  perhaps they have... and perhaps woman as a general species are becoming m
CR>and more independant and assertive as they evolve.

Women aren't a species. They are the females of the same species men are
the males of.

CR>my entire argument is based
CR>on the fact that throughout history, probably almost to the beginning of man
CR>(no matter what your religion), woman have been child-bearers.  now, i'm not
CR>trying to be sexist (although reading my last message i can understand how y
CR>might feel that way), but that's the way it was.  in fact, it wasn't until
CR>quite recently that women began to take on some of the roles of their male
CR>counterparts.  so the way i see it, you can't destroy that much evolved
CR>instinct in just a few decades... most likely, it will take quite a long tim

Your knowledge of history is limited and inaccurate. Women bear the
children, but in most cultures, women have had to be able to exercise
power and authority. Most "primitive" cultures have elders of both sexes
who are important in making decisions for the group as a whole. In more
technologically advanced cultures, women have often _in practice_ run
the households theoretically ruled by their husbands, while their
husbands were away doing other things - such as fighting the wars, or
dancing attendance on appropriate monarchs. This meant running the
_entire_ household, the male servants and tenant farmers as well as the
females.

And most cultures have tossed up at least a few female rulers and even
warriors, even when the laws were theoretically very much against it.

CR>  i agree, assertiveness is far superior to raw agression in the long term.
CR>however, in order to gain the respect of your crew so that they will trust y
CR>assertations, you must show some degree of fearlessness, true compassion, an
CR>strong will.

Women do this all the time, Christian. In fact, "compassion" is often
classed as a specifically "female" trait, which men are sometimes afraid
of showing lest they look "weak".

 * OLX 2.1 TD * Press any key to continue or any other key to quit

--- FLAME v1.0
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 Msg  : 157 of 285
 From : Ecarey                              1:101/230       .îí 29 .íâ 96 07:16
 To   : Frank Glover
 Subj : STAR TREK
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
FG>CL>   Besides if she's a lesbian....that might come as a real surprise to
FG>CL>  her
FG>CL>   BOYFRIEND she left back on Earth, right?

FG>   Maybe I missed something all along, but isn't Captain Janeway actually
FG>married to that guy?

It was made pretty clear that they don't live in the same house, even
when she's on Earth - she asked him to pick up her pregnant dog at the
vet's, and take her home to _his_ house, and he said he'd already picked
up the dog's bed from Janeway's house.

It seems unlikely that they'd be maintaining separate residences if they
were actually married, and they never specifically said that they were
married.

 * OLX 2.1 TD * Hello, I am part number ¦ºÞº¦º¦Û¦ºÝ¦ºÝ¦¦

--- FLAME v1.0
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Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 158 of 285
 From : Ecarey                              1:101/230       .îí 29 .íâ 96 07:16
 To   : Anders Danebo
 Subj : STAR TREK
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
AD> -> I must have some problems with my terminal, I almost thought you said
AD> -> "good" and "ST:Voyager" in the same sentence.  The captain is a
AD> -> woman, trying to be a man.  Now if she were a lesbian (which... who
AD> -> knows?) I might be able to take

AD> DJ> That's really quite an idiotic statement.  Giving orders is not a
AD> DJ> defining characteristic of masculinity.

AD>True..I saw an episode of Dateline International where they had a segment
AD>about Israeli soldiers and their training, and they had notised that female
AD>trainers where better at getting through to the male trainees than the
AD>male trainers where...

AD>In short, female trainers are better trainers than male ones are...

Um, there's been some experience in the US military that female trainers
get better results out of male recruits, but male trainers get better
results out of _female_ recruits. Each gender seems to learn better from
the _other_ gender, other things being equal.

 * OLX 2.1 TD * This tagline stolen by Off-Line Xpress!

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Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 159 of 285
 From : Ecarey                              1:101/230       .îí 29 .íâ 96 07:16
 To   : Bill Clements
 Subj : NUCLEAR
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
BC>`Fusion Without Ex-Lax' first published in `GALAXY' October 1976
BC>(C)opyright by UPD Publishing Corporation Inc. and reprinted in
BC>`A STEP FARTHER OUT' (C)opyright 1979 by Jerry Pournelle, Ph.D..

Um, Bill, did you have Dr. Pournelle's permision to reprint this _here_,
on an international computer network?

If not, your great respect for him has led you to violate his his
copyright.

 * OLX 2.1 TD * Chicken heads are the chief food of captive alligators.

--- FLAME v1.0
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Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 160 of 285
 From : Ecarey                              1:101/230       .îí 29 .íâ 96 07:16
 To   : Christian Raven
 Subj : STAR TREK SEXISM
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
CR>TS> While substituting for Q, Christian Raven took extreme delight in saying
CR>TS> to David Johnston, "You'll do anything I say?"  David quailed when the
CR>TS> words "destroy all feminsts!" were uttered.

CR>TS>  DJ>> That's really quite an idiotic statement.  Giving orders is not a
CR>TS>  DJ>> defining characteristic of masculinity.

CR>TS>  CR>   really?  then what is?  femininty is just the opposite, and befor
CR>TS>  CR> you go plundering into a losing argument, you should scan the
CR>TS>  CR> definition in your webster's... submissiveness, not agression, is o
CR>TS>  CR> of the "defining characteristics" as you so well put it, of the
CR>TS>  CR> feminine behavioral pattern.

CR>TS> Barefoot, pregnant and in the kitchen, eh?  And just what century do you
CR>TS> think you're living in?

CR>TS> You might like that kind of woman, but most children want everything the
CR>TS> way, too.  I prefer a partner, not a slave.

CR>  yes... alot of people (especially women) would like to change centuries of
CR>evolution in just a few decades, but it's not so easy.

You're completely mistaken as to what "centuries of evolution" have made
women.

Passivity and inability/lack of desire to assert authority have _never_
been good survival strategies for women, even during the brief periods
of extreme prosperity when most men could actually afford to support
non-working wives. You see, even if all you do is stay home and take
care of the house and kids, you've got to be able to assert authority
over the kids, the household help if you can afford to hire it, the
tradesmen who come to do work on the house or install newly-purchased
household equipment, etc. Passive little shrinking violets tend to be
_bad_ at these things, and hence failures as "traditional" wives, and if
the marriage survives at all it's because the husband takes on the
killing burden of doing _everything_, which is no easier for men than
for women.

It's quite true that most of human history has seen a division of labor
between men and women, with men doing more of the "away from home" work
and women doing more of the "in and around the home" work, but through
most of human history, women's work has been as essential to the
economic support of the family as men's work, and even in the brief
periods when that was not true for substantial numbers of people, the
work still needed to get _done_, and that still meant someone had to be
in charge - women, as well as men, have been exercising authority for
all of human history.

CR>my personal work as
CR>tatoo artist has proven to me that the female sex is striving to the extreme
CR>become male.  sometimes i laugh... but i always give them their tat's.

Oooo - a businessman does what he's paid for! Wonder of Wonders!

Christian, you're not seeing an ordinary cross-section of _either_ men
or women, working as a tatoo artist. Trust me.

CR>i do
CR>expect to change anything, mr. sullivan, but i will propose to you this: com
CR>soon we are going to see a change.  i see it happening every day.  things ar
CR>losing their fast-paced "lets all be men" attitude, and women are beginning
CR>realize what they really want (ooooh.. i can just hear the frantic pounding
CR>girls at keyboards everywhere, heh heh).. i'll leave it at that, so as not t
CR>stray too far off the Trek subject.

What women are losing is the willingness to put up with the "superwoman"
role, working a fulltime career AND doing or being responsible for ALL
the work at home and having SOLE responsibility for the kids.

But they're responding by demanding that the workload be more evenly
divided. _Both_ men and women are demanding more flexibility from their
employers, and where one income is large enough, there are more
housewives, but also more househusbands, depending on the relative
earning power and personalities involved.

 * OLX 2.1 TD * I'm in shape ... round's a shape isn't it?

--- FLAME v1.0
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Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 161 of 285
 From : Ecarey                              1:101/230       .îí 29 .íâ 96 19:51
 To   : Chris Ogniben
 Subj : STAR TREK
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Chris Ogniben wrote to Channon Lang:

CO>   Hello!!!!!!!  Apparently you seem to be more stupider than i
CO>thought.  Since, i just finished replying to you, to how much of a
CO>scumbag you are for attacking janeway.  And now you make another reply
CO>to a person in here, stating that you like janeway.  Get a stinking
CO>life you stupid idiot.  Since, apparently you don't even see that your
CO>the biggest hypcrypt scumbuck and a bigger loser in this conference.


Uh, Chris, you're attacking the wrong person, here. It's Christian Raven
who has been posting the weird, sexist opinions about Janeway and Trek
and women in general. Channon is another person who was simply trying to
set him straight - and, I _think_, female, though I haven't seen a
reference definite enough to make me certain of that.

Calm yourself.:)

/s/ Elisabeth Carey

 * OLX 2.1 TD * Unable to locate Tea - Operator Halted

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Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 162 of 285
 From : Ecarey                              1:101/230       .îí 29 .íâ 96 19:51
 To   : The Raven
 Subj : TV AND SF
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
TR>.PID: BWRA 3.11 [Eval]
TR>.MSGID: 1:363/309.0 31097eae
TR> LED> You point out one glaring difference between US and British TV,
TR> LED> that  some foundational degree of culture was present when their
TR> LED> networks  started. The American networks tried to rise above the poor
TR> LED> breeding of  the typical American.

TR> > But don't forget, for every BBC Shakespeare production, there were half
TR> > a dozen sitcoms that were just as brainless as anything we have here.

TR>     And in some cases worse.  As bad as some of the American "jiggle
TR>comedies" were, nothing on American television could compare to "Benny Hill"
TR>for sheer lowbrow comedy.

Jack, I've been trying to _forget_ Benny Hill. Why did you have to
remind me? :)

<snip>

TR> Ec> The truth is, we have no idea what may survive from our own time to be
TR> Ec> regarded as "high culture" by future generations, and the assumption
TR> Ec> that _nothing_ will is pure pseudo-sophisticated snobbery firmly
TR> Ec> grounded in ignorance of what was popular and what not, and how
TR> Ec> _present_ classics were regarded, by earlier generations.

TR>     Heh.  An image just came to me, from "Demolition Man".  The oldies
TR>station played "minitunes", which were once advertising jingles of the late
TR>20th Century.

The scary thing is, though, some of them are _good_. And I wouldn't be
even a little bit surprised to see _some_ commercials survive into the
future as much-admired examples of great art produced for television.
[Though not all of them will necessarily have been any good as
_commercials_ - during the Superbowl on Sunday, one of the commercials
was a truly captivating piece about horses playing football. I couldn't
begin to place the product, though, until I realized that the horses
were _Clydesdales_: it was supposed to be a Budweiser ad, but they
didn't show either the product or the product name prominently enough.]

 * OLX 2.1 TD * The universe wasn'tcreated in the order you discovered it

--- FLAME v1.0
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Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 163 of 285
 From : Nicolai Shapero                     1:102/524       .òp 30 .íâ 96 06:48
 To   : Samantha Dobbs
 Subj : Re: Space: Above & Beyond
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Jan 26 12:46>, Samantha Dobbs (1:229/610@fidonet) wrote to Marco Catalano:

 SD>Samantha Dobbs
 SD>ac050@freenet.durham.org
 SD>samantha.dobbs@adra.gryn.org

Please drop the multi-line signature.  They are not permitted in this
conference.

Thank you for your cooperation,

-- Nicolai Shapero, Moderator of the SFFAN echo

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Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 164 of 285
 From : Nicolai Shapero                     1:102/524       .òp 30 .íâ 96 06:53
 To   : Rudy Hardy
 Subj : Space: Above & Beyond Episode List
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Jan 26 16:47>, Rudy Hardy (2:293/2602.24) wrote to Boris CDuke:

 RH>But I heard something that the show will be cancelled...

The statement in TV Guide was that the ratings were surprisingly good
(especially considering that it's been up against 60 MINUTES for cryin' out
loud) and that the likelihood was that they would be changing the broadcast day
and time (move it later in the evening, when kiddies in theory are in bed, so
that the storylines could get a trifle darker).

-- Nicolai Shapero, the Mad Russian Sysop of StormGate Aerie


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Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 165 of 285
 From : Nicolai Shapero                     1:102/524       .òp 30 .íâ 96 06:56
 To   : Chip Griffin
 Subj : Re: nuclear BS
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
This topic has been declared off topic.  Please post no more messages on this
subject for the next 90 days...minimum.

Thank you for your cooperation,

-- Nicolai Shapero, Moderator of the SFFAN echo

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Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 166 of 285
 From : Kay Shapero                         1:102/524       .òp 30 .íâ 96 23:13
 To   : Otto Cordray
 Subj : weird tv
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Jan 29 17:59>, Otto Cordray (1:106/1393) wrote to Chris Baugh:

 FS> Anyway, what other "weird" tv shows are out there?
 CB> Would you include weird comedy?
 CB> Monty Python's Flying Circus
 OC>
 OC>I would. Remember their "science fiction adventure" episode where
 OC>the entire population of Great Britain was turned into Scotsmen
 OC>by a rather odd alien?

And after the most recent Voyager episode, I suspect there's got to be a Monty
Python fan involved somewhere.  They turned 'im into a newt!  ('Er too... :->)

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Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 167 of 285
 From : Otto Cordray                        1:106/1393      .pä 31 .íâ 96 08:00
 To   : Ecarey
 Subj : Commercials
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

TR>     Heh.  An image just came to me, from "Demolition Man".  The oldies
TR>station played "minitunes", which were once
 E> advertising jingles of the late
TR>20th Century.

 E> The scary thing is, though, some of them are _good_. And I wouldn't be
 E> even a little bit surprised to see _some_ commercials survive into the
 E> future as much-admired examples of great art produced for television.

You need not refer to the future. Plenty are already fondly thought of. Although
not "great art", I like the old Lite Beer commercials. The one with Billy Martin
and George Steinbrenner ("Billy, you're fired" then "Billy,
you're hired") was a classic.

 E> [Though not all of them will necessarily have been any good as
 E> _commercials_ - during the Superbowl on Sunday, one of the commercials
 E> was a truly captivating piece about horses playing football. I couldn't
 E> begin to place the product, though, until I realized that the horses
 E> were _Clydesdales_: it was supposed to be a Budweiser ad, but they
 E> didn't show either the product or the product name prominently enough.]

Until you mentioned it, I didn't realize that I didn't actually catch the
product being advertised either. I assumed Pepsi. And, although I usually don't
like commercials that resurrect the dead, the Pepsi "hidden camera"
commercial with Hank Williams' "Your Cheatin' Heart" playing was great. And it
was probably a LOT cheaper to produce that the Deion and Coyote commercial
(another one whose product I forget...but a hilarious commercial!)

Otto

--- Maximus/2 3.01
 * Origin: The Round Table, BBS of Gulf Coast Mensa * 922-1393 (1:106/1393)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 168 of 285
 From : Shawn Merrow                        1:3407/14       .òp 30 .íâ 96 19:00
 To   : Samantha Dobbs
 Subj : Re: Space: Above & Beyond
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
What do you think of McQueen. What type of injury caused to be grounded?
Since he was able to fly one mission when they went behind enemy lines
in the captured ship. Since he was able to do that mission they could
reavulate his grounding. Plus in that episode Wang was tortured and
brocked, I figured they would start showing the healing process from
this, but they havent. Well thanks for replying to my last message. Lets
start a regular discusion group on SA&B. By the way did you see the TV
Guide cover they were on?

--- QScan/PCB v1.16b / 01-0024
 * Origin:  (1:3407/14)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 169 of 285
 From : Shawn Merrow                        1:3407/14       .òp 30 .íâ 96 19:08
 To   : Rudy Hardy
 Subj : Space: Above & Beyond Epi
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

-> Space: Above and Beyond  created by Glen Morgan and James Wong
-> But I heard something that the show will be cancelled...

Where did you hear this, do you know if it can be stoped.

--- QScan/PCB v1.16b / 01-0024
 * Origin:  (1:3407/14)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 170 of 285
 From : Todd Sullivan                       1:202/720.3     .òp 30 .íâ 96 16:33
 To   : Chris Baugh
 Subj : weird tv
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
While substituting for Q, Chris Baugh took extreme delight in saying to Frank
Swarbrick, "You'll do anything I say?"  Frank quailed when the words "weird tv"
were uttered.

 FS>> Anyway, what other "weird" tv shows are out there?
 CB> Strange Luck, the new lead-in to the X-Files.

 CB> Would you include weird comedy?
 CB> Monty Python's Flying Circus
 CB> Kids in the Hall
 CB> Mystery Science Theater 3000
 CB> Whose Line is it Anyway?

Can't say.  The shows you mentioned are comedy to begin with, just taken to
extremes.  Python might qualify by its premise, but just barely.

Todd Sullivan

... "The basis of a democratic state is liberty." --Aristotle

-*- ASTG 1.9

--- Spot 1.3a Unregistered
 * Origin: Todd's Spot in the Continuum (1:202/720.3)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 171 of 285
 From : Chris Ogniben                       1:2604/568      .òp 30 .íâ 96 12:09
 To   : Kim Wheat
 Subj : Star Trek
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

   True, it's just a tv show, and not reality.  I know that.  And your
right, but there is a few people that can get on your nerves and you
need to say something.  But, perhaps i could do a little more thinking
before i explode onto another person.  But, that happens rarely.
Anyways, your right upon everything you said, and i will remember it
next time when i talk to someone about a topic.


--- WM v3.11/93-0947
 * Origin: Waterside BBS - NJ - (201) 641-5375 28.8k  (1:2604/568)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 172 of 285
 From : Chris Ogniben                       1:2604/568      .òp 30 .íâ 96 12:12
 To   : Frank Glover
 Subj : Re: X-files
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

   Yeah, and Skully didn't like Bambi and how she affected Mulder in
X files.  But, what about the factor of hot looking chicks going into
jobs like being a mortision, where they work on dead bodies to look
good at a funeral.  I just read a story about a attractive woman about
her 30's.  And she works in the morge.  And for some reason, since she
never had a boyfriend, or much of a life.  That in order to full fill
her sexual needs, that she did it to a male corpse, as long as she
needed to, since she was able to erect the mans organ.  I mean, isn't
that sick?  I mean, maybe not all attractive women that work in jobs
that you just wonder why they would work in such a job, would prove not
to be as sick.  But, i dunno.


--- WM v3.11/93-0947
 * Origin: Waterside BBS - NJ - (201) 641-5375 28.8k  (1:2604/568)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 173 of 285
 From : Chris Ogniben                       1:2604/568      .òp 30 .íâ 96 12:14
 To   : Todd Sullivan
 Subj : Defeatist drivel
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

    Well, i always wanted to live in the life, where Chilvarly existed.
 Where men go and fight in battle fields, and only the strong survive,
and fair maidens are there to please you and feed you.  But, of course
that is all fantasy and a past life time.  But, i can understand that
the intelligence area for the people of this world.  That there is a
good majority of people that are smart.  But, who's to say that there
is also a larger majority of people that are not smart.


--- WM v3.11/93-0947
 * Origin: Waterside BBS - NJ - (201) 641-5375 28.8k  (1:2604/568)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 174 of 285
 From : Chris Ogniben                       1:2604/568      .òp 30 .íâ 96 12:15
 To   : John Crawford
 Subj : Re: X-files
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

    Well, i don't have a lot of time to respond to this.  But, i will
say this.  And that is, whatever happened to make these Cockroaches
appear in a large majority and affect people.  Might just have been
nature.  I mean, it will take some time and heavy discussions to really
understand what really happened.


--- WM v3.11/93-0947
 * Origin: Waterside BBS - NJ - (201) 641-5375 28.8k  (1:2604/568)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 175 of 285
 From : Chris Ogniben                       1:2604/568      .òp 30 .íâ 96 12:38
 To   : The Raven
 Subj : Survival Skills
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

    I just like the topic here about Survival Skills.  Now, when you
hear or meet people that served in the military, you wonder where did
it all started for the training?  Now history says that through the
civial wars and large world wars, that we learned of our increasing
technology to be used to save more lives in combat.  But, this is not
what i want to talk here.  You talk about Survival Skills, in the
military.  Now today of course, all the programs that you go through in
order to be all you can be in the army.  Where did those survival
skills and other skills come from?  Who invented them?  Who was the
first to learn about survival skills, after the first person was able
to use such skills and to pass it onto another man?  If you have
answers, then tell it.  But, i don't think anyone knows how these
skills have started and who was the first man to use these skills
before they started to use it in a large scale like today, to prepare
everyone in the best way to survive in teh field of battle.


--- WM v3.11/93-0947
 * Origin: Waterside BBS - NJ - (201) 641-5375 28.8k  (1:2604/568)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 176 of 285
 From : Gerry Normandeau                    1:163/430       .pä 31 .íâ 96 02:58
 To   : Jon Helis
 Subj : Re: Star Trek and others
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On 01-15-96  20:55 Jon Helis strung up Eric Reinholt on the gallows pole because
of Re: Star Trek and others!

 -=> Quoting Eric Reinholt to Jon Helis <=-

 JH> Thanks alot!  I've been wanting to read R.U.R for a long time,
 JH> but have never been able to find it.  When I was younger, I had
 JH> a fascination with robots, and when I heard about R.U.R., I
 JH> wanted to read it, but couldn't.

 JH> On another subject regarding R.U.R., has it ever been made into
 JH> a film?  Just wondering.

Hi there! I have at my disposal over 500 movie books and have
made a deep search. Unfortunatly there is no listing of R.U.R.
ever having been made into a film. If they did it probably was
made in Europe in the silent perioud about 1910 to 1920, and
may have been lost over the years. If it has not been lost a
deeper search into European films of the turn of the century
may be usefull. If you are interested let me know and I will
do my best to find out. :)


        +
<>     <|>     <>  "IT IS GOOD TO BE KING"
 <<>__<<|>>__<>>  Gerry Normandeau \ Nexis
  <</*/* *\*\>>    Fido Address-1:163/115
   ~~~~~~~~~~~
... A fool and his money . . . Hey! Where's my wallet?
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

--- Maximus 2.01wb
 * Origin: Watership Down BBS, Kanata , ON (1:163/430)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 177 of 285
 From : Kim Wheat                           1:271/285       .pä 31 .íâ 96 09:36
 To   : Kevin Ahearn
 Subj : Star Trek
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
---<<*<<< Kevin dazzled Buc Wheat with these words of wisdom!! >>>**>>----

 KW>   ! Origin: From Trekkies & from B5ers who hate Trek save us! (1:271/285.0)

 KA> LOL!!  GREAT tagline, Kim!  Perhaps we should talk Nicolai into adding
 KA> this to the official SFFAN rules...

 Hi Kevin,

   Since this appeared on the Origin line, will have to pass this on
 to our great Sysop, Steve Martin! <G> Didn't even notice it myself!
 But like you, got a good chuckle out of it! Thanks for the kind words,
 and for bringing it to my attention, Kevin! :>

  Kim :)


--- GEcho 1.00
 * Origin: From Trekkies & from B5ers who hate Trek save us! (1:271/285.0)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 178 of 285
 From : Frank Glover                        1:2613/477      .pä 31 .íâ 96 22:21
 To   : Bianca Wesslak
 Subj : Re: Back to SF....
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

BW>   threat, the enviroment doesn't.  To me earth is a living entity,
BW>  with
BW>   conscious thought, and so are her creatures, all of them!  There has

   In that case, you might find David Brin's `Earth' a long but interesting
read....

   Frank


--- QuickBBS 2.80 GoldBase (Zeta-1)
 * Origin: The Matrix Data Bank BBS, Rochester, Ny (1:2613/477)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 179 of 285
 From : Frank Glover                        1:2613/477      .pä 31 .íâ 96 22:44
 To   : Chris Ogniben
 Subj : Re: Nuclear
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

CO>     I still say that the human race, is very vunerable to be taken
CO>  over
CO>  by another race.  And the reason is that we are weak, though many
CO>  people say that we are not.  But, we are.  And an alien race that is
CO>  bred to conqure or has evolved to take over planets that have
CO>  weakling
CO>  life forms.  That we are a prime canditate to be taken over easily.

   If they come here, then they obviously have interstellar travel and we don't.
That alone puts them technologically well ahead of us. As we can barely (and
haven't lately) reach the Moon, we could hardly return the favor. Any hostile
aliens, almost by definition, could cream us if they so chose.

  So that means....

   1. There's no one out there. (Or so few, maybe one civilization per galaxy,
on average, that encounters of any kind are unlikely.)

   2. The majority of alien civilizations are benign. (But still doesn't explain
why one hasn't shown up yet.)

   3. They're benign, and have been here and left. (Perhaps waiting for us to
reach some more interesting level, as in `2001: A Space Odyssey.')

   4. They're benign and are here now, but concealing themselves. (Tough to
prove. UFO's could be occasional lapses of a `stealth' technology...or not. But
observing from a technological `duck blind' makes sense.)

   5. Benign or hostile, we just haven't been found yet, suggesting the nearest
civilization isn't *too* close.

   6. There are hostile ones out there, and others have been overrun by them, or
learned to hide from them. (Maybe that's why searches for ET radio signals have
come up empty so far. Civilizations discover something better than
electromagnetic communications a century or so after radio [modulated gravity
waves? Modulated neutrino beams? Tachyons and other FTL stuff?] and never use it
much, and/or stay as radio silent as possible to avoid the bad guys attention.
We haven't been warned to keep quiet yet....)

   So if anyone does show up, hope it's Michael Renne, and not Darth Vader,
cause either way, there's not much we could do...

   Frank


--- QuickBBS 2.80 GoldBase (Zeta-1)
 * Origin: The Matrix Data Bank BBS, Rochester, Ny (1:2613/477)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 180 of 285
 From : Brion Lienhart                      1:213/700.2     .òp 30 .íâ 96 11:53
 To   : Shane Carson
 Subj : quotes
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On Mon Jan 29, Shane Carson said to Chris Ogniben:

 -SC>Would you PLEASE learn how to quote! You post dozens of replies in
 -SC>here,
 -SC>and nobody knows what the hell you are talking about!

From what I've seen he has nothing interesting to say, so who cares what the
hell he's talking about.




--- QM v1.31
 * Origin: Ministry of Peace - Carson City, NV (1:213/700.2)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 181 of 285
 From : The Raven                           1:363/309       .cê 28 .íâ 96 04:25
 To   : Chris Ogniben
 Subj : Megaspoiler - EXOGENESIS
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 CO> I don't understand why people post SPOLIER's in here, if they thing
 CO> that anyone else would want to find out things, way before the new
 CO> episode shows up.  It would probably be best for everyone, to just not
 CO> talk about anything for the upcoming new episodes of any sci fi
 CO> series, until you all seen it.

     You are making a dangerous assumption here, based upon your own views:
that since you have no use for spoilers, no one else here on the echo does,
either.
     Not true in the least.  I, for one, enjoy them.  Gives me something to
look forward to in my favorite TV series, or lets me know something about a
film I'm interested in seeing but not convinced is worth my time.
     If you don't want to see spoilers, them flip past them.  Its rather easy
to not read mail you aren't interested in.

     Jack Butler



... ebius tagline. This is a moebius tagline. This is a mo ...
--- Blue Wave/DOS v2.20 [NR]
 * Origin: Forethought BBS -=- Orlando, FL -=- 407-679-6561 (1:363/309)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 182 of 285
 From : The Raven                           1:363/309       .cê 28 .íâ 96 04:40
 To   : Christian Raven
 Subj : Aggression
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 CR>  i agree, assertiveness is far superior to raw agression in the
 CR>long term.  however, in order to gain the respect of your crew so
 CR>that they will trust your assertations, you must show some degree
 CR>of fearlessness, true compassion, and strong will.

     And none of these traits requires agression to be combined in an
effective leader, or have you forgotten Mohandas K. Ghandi?

     Jack Butler



... "Creation Science" ain't.
--- Blue Wave/DOS v2.20 [NR]
 * Origin: Forethought BBS -=- Orlando, FL -=- 407-679-6561 (1:363/309)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 183 of 285
 From : Brion Lienhart                      1:213/700.2     .pä 31 .íâ 96 07:35
 To   : Nicolai Shapero
 Subj : weird tv
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On Sun Jan 28, Nicolai Shapero said to Frank Swarbrick:

 FS>As for Weird Science, isn't that a comedy?  I've never watched it
 FS>(other than the original movie).  It looks so, well...stupid.

 -NS>It is a comedy.  And sometimes it's reasonable...as well as funny.

Yeah, I just about died laughing in the X-Files rip-off episode. When Agent
Molly was doing the autopsy, I could tell what the payoff was going to be, but I
still laughed my head off. The episode last week with the alien android was
pretty good. It started off real well, but kind of tapered off half way through.



--- QM v1.31
 * Origin: Ministry of Peace - Carson City, NV (1:213/700.2)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 184 of 285
 From : Brion Lienhart                      1:213/700.2     .pä 31 .íâ 96 07:42
 To   : Frank Swarbrick
 Subj : weird tv
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On Sun Jan 28, Frank Swarbrick said to Brion Lienhart:

 BL> Oh yeah, don't forget Eerie Indiana. I liked to motto of their police
 BL> dept. "To  Protect and Control."

 -FS>Forgot that one.  Thanks!  I see they show it on the Disney Channel
 -FS>sometimes, but I haven't watched it since it originally aired...

The last few episodes with John Astin are among my favorites. He's one of my
favorite actors. Have you ever seen his movie "Evil Roy Slade"?

"My doll has a new house."




--- QM v1.31
 * Origin: Ministry of Peace - Carson City, NV (1:213/700.2)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 185 of 285
 From : ROBERT LIDGREN                      1:134/10        .pä 31 .íâ 96 17:31
 To   : CHRISTIAN RAVEN
 Subj : STAR TREK SEXISM
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
-> yes... alot of people (especially women) would like to change centuries of
-> evolution in just a few decades, but it's not so easy.  my personal work as
-> a tatoo artist has proven to me that the female sex is striving to the
-> extreme to become male.  sometimes i laugh... but i always give them their
-> tat's.  i


1.  How on earth does getting a tatoo in ANY WAY imply women want to be men?
2.  If you have evidence or a "gut feeling" for this do share your thoughts.
3.  Is your attitude merely mysogyny in disguise?
4.  Most of us have many women in our lives and I for one have found NOT ONE
    who wants to be a man.
5.  Yes, women want legal equality and political equality.  They want equal pay
    for equal work.  They want to be respected just like men want to be
    respected.
6.  They want to have career opportunities open to them.
7.  Some men find the changes in traditional women's roles threatening or at
    least they now ask questions about their own identitiy and roles.
    The "Men's Movement" in its many incarnations sometimes tries to
    make sense of this and redefine waht being a man really is.
    The warrior model may have slightly outlived its usefulness.
8.  What many men need to do is provide strong and positive role-models
    for their sons.  The burgeoning single-parent family leaves plenty
    young men without a good role model so they often turn to gang leaders
    or drug-dealers as models for how to get ahead.
9.  In traditional times men brought up their sons in the ethnic and cultural
    traditions of their society.  I wonder why men have often reneged on this
    responsibility.  However, I don't believe that women's emancipatiuon
    caused all of this in any way.
10. Change is always threatening and sometimes anomie or a sense of
    "normlessness" sets in when young men no longer know just who they are or
    what goals they should set for themselves.  The fact that women have
    become stronger or "appear" to be stronger is merely their free choice to
    make changes in the way they have been treated.
11. I would suggest that intelligent women are not all man-haters and don't
    see THAT as what defines them.

At any rate, the thread you spawned about sexism has resulted in sometimes
thoughtful and sometimes down-right angry responses. I just thought I'd take
you at your word and offer some observations.  Hatred betwen men and women is
not the way to go and women being in roles of leadership, like the Janeway
character in "Voyager" ned not turn men into quivering globs of uncoordinated
protoplasm.

Mind you, not everthing in the feminist movement is healthy and I think that
Camille Paglia brings some balance and common sense to the debate.  I recommend
her collection of shorter writings in "Vamps and Tramps."  It made me see these
issues with new insights not often found in some of the mainstream feminist
thinkers.  In fact many of them detest Paglia and think of her as an enemy.

Oh well, it is true there are more STRONG women characters in science fiction
now and, you know what, there have been strong women all through history - now
the difference is that what they can and cannot do and can and cannot say is
closer to what men hav enjoyed for centuries.  Like it or not, welcome to the
new reality - but it ain't true that most women want to be men INMHO!
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Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 186 of 285
 From : ROBERT LIDGREN                      1:134/10        .pä 31 .íâ 96 17:40
 To   : FRANK GLOVER
 Subj : X-FILES
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
-> I wonder if this episode wasn't meant to air two weeks earlier?
-> January 12 (when the girls were born) happens to be *my* birthday.
-> I was also espically amused by the astrologer checking his employer's
-> credit....
->
-> Mulder: "I'm a Federal Agent!"
->
-> Astrologer: "Last I heard, the Federal Government couldn't pay its
-> bills!"

I have read dozens of reactions to the episode but many of them focus on the
poor treatment Scully got from Mulder.  This may portend further troubles.  On
the other hand, some might balme it all on the planetary conjustion business.

And many people didn't like it because it was too frenetic - too weird - too
hard to get a handle on.

But, you know what, I was delighted by the lighter touch and found it to be
very entertaining.  Even the stuff from Scully about:  "Why do you have to
drive - is it some Macho thing, Mulder?" was handled convincingly.  The smoking
by Scully and the vodka consumption by Mulder showed a high degree of
frustration now plumbed to these depths in any epsidoe to date.  Something's up
here - further evolution in their characters.  I liked it despite the fact that
thousands didn't.  But then again I was among only 7 or 8 people in North
America who got a kick out of parts of the mega-panned movie "Ishtar!" [That
was the Warren Beatty/Dustin Hoffman bomb.]
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Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 187 of 285
 From : ROBERT LIDGREN                      1:134/10        .pä 31 .íâ 96 17:45
 To   : FRANK SWARBRICK
 Subj : X-FILES
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
-> I wouldn't call it one of the best, but it was definately good.  I'm
-> surprised they showed it so close to "War of the Coprophages," the most
-> recent new one before this, which was also a laugh riot.  Still, I'm glad to
-> see they still have their sense of humor.  A lot of people were saying
-> earlier in this season that it wasn't as good as the last two, but with
-> recent episodes I'd have to disagree.  It's as great as ever!

The point, I think, is that there is "room" in the X-Files saga for some
diversions and risk-taking.  Shoot, "ready-shoot-aim" isn't always a bad
approach.  Chris Carter has proven that time and again!

-> I also liked it having female villans, something they rarely do. There's
-> "Eve," of course, but I can't think of any others offhand. Oh, the demon in
-> "Die Hand, Die Verletzt."  Maybe another somewhere,

Some of the teen-spawned carnage echoed the Stephen King story filmed in Carrie
but not with nearly the angst nor power.  I thought Spacek, in that movie, did
a brilliant job.

The Bruckman episode was also a great one due to the way we never were quite
sure what was coming up next.  I like the more recent unpredictablity of Scully
and Mulder too.  It shows we are in for further experimentation with the
partners.

Oh well, just a few random thoughts.

BTW:  Both Duchuvny and Anderson continue to grow as actors and that, more than
anything is a refreshing thing to see.
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Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 188 of 285
 From : Otto Cordray                        1:106/1393      .åò 01 .åâ 96 09:11
 To   : Frank Glover
 Subj : Not Darth
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 FG>    So if anyone does show up, hope it's Michael Renne,
 FG>    and not Darth Vader

...or the Vogons :).

-Otto


--- Maximus/2 3.01
 * Origin: The Round Table, BBS of Gulf Coast Mensa * 922-1393 (1:106/1393)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 189 of 285
 From : Robert Siemborski                   1:2604/214      .îí 29 .íâ 96 16:54
 To   : Nicolai Shapero
 Subj : Re: nuclear
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 >This subject has been declared off topic.  Please return to the subject
 >matter of this conference (science fiction and science fiction fandom) in
 >future posts.
 >
 >Thank you for your cooperation,
 >
 >-- Nicolai Shapero, Moderator of the SFFAN echo

THANK YOU SO MUCH!!!!!!!!  I was getting tired of skipping 20+ posts a day!

- Rob -

--- SLMAIL v4.5a  (#1409)
 * Origin: Bits 'N Bytes BBS - Leonia, NJ - (201) 346-1661 - 28.8k Connections!
(1:2604/214)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 190 of 285
 From : Robert Siemborski                   1:2604/214      .îí 29 .íâ 96 16:55
 To   : Jeff Hancock
 Subj : Re: Babylon 5
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 >The line was given away in the B5 magazine.

                                ^^^^^^^^^^^
These things exist? GIMMIE GIMMIE GIMMIE GIMMIE! ;-)

(Not the line, some things are worth waiting for)

- Rob -

--- SLMAIL v4.5a  (#1409)
 * Origin: Bits 'N Bytes BBS - Leonia, NJ - (201) 346-1661 - 28.8k Connections!
(1:2604/214)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 191 of 285
 From : Robert Siemborski                   1:2604/214      .îí 29 .íâ 96 16:59
 To   : Phill Ash
 Subj : Re: Star Trek
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 >        Now that Torres is capable of constructing a 'sub'Soong-class
 >        android, will she do so?

Remember, the units that she has the specs for wound up killing their masters.
I don't think that would be a positive end to the Voyager series.

 >        Voyager will eventually need additional crew as all the extras
 >        get kilt.

Yes, but man-killer robots don't seem like a logical replacement.

 >        2 justifications for...
 >        2 reasons she should...

Paraphrased:

2 justifications against...
2 reasons she shoudn't...

- Rob -

--- SLMAIL v4.5a  (#1409)
 * Origin: Bits 'N Bytes BBS - Leonia, NJ - (201) 346-1661 - 28.8k Connections!
(1:2604/214)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 192 of 285
 From : Robert Siemborski                   1:2604/214      .îí 29 .íâ 96 19:51
 To   : J.t. Smith
 Subj : Re: NUCLEAR
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 >... Profanity: The language all programmers know.

"Allow programmers to write programs in english, and you will find that
programmers can not write in english."

I guess this is why.

The exceeding apologetic for being excessively off-topic,
- Rob -

--- SLMAIL v4.5a  (#1409)
 * Origin: Bits 'N Bytes BBS - Leonia, NJ - (201) 346-1661 - 28.8k Connections!
(1:2604/214)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 193 of 285
 From : Robert Siemborski                   1:2604/214      .îí 29 .íâ 96 19:53
 To   : Anders Danebo
 Subj : Re: Babylon 5
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 >RS >  The lurker's guide if you have WWW access:
 >RS >  http://www.hyperion.com/lurk
 >RS >  Don't know the EXACT URL, but it is listed on the main
 >RS >  page.
 >
 >Thanx ,i may get hold of a internet account soon so it is usefull...
 >Thank you once again

You're welcome.  It's an execlent site with synoposes and quotes from JMS about
each episode.  Really good stuff.  It also has analysis and notes. It's all
sorted too.

- Rob -

--- SLMAIL v4.5a  (#1409)
 * Origin: Bits 'N Bytes BBS - Leonia, NJ - (201) 346-1661 - 28.8k Connections!
(1:2604/214)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 194 of 285
 From : Frank Glover                        1:2613/477      .îí 29 .íâ 96 20:35
 To   : Phill Ash
 Subj : Re: Star Trek
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

PA>          She knows how to reverse the cyber-vasectomy.
PA>
PA>          The Doc could use a real body (and a name).

   This would be interesting. She also seemed to know a fair amount about Data.
(espically for someone not originally part of Starfleet) How much information on
his construction is in the `public domain' since his discovery, and likely to be
in Voyager's databases? I would wonder about the availability of materials, but
Data himself almost succeeded at building an android with his capability or
greater (Lol), with resources available on the Enterprise. And in semi-secrecy
at that.

   Frank


--- QuickBBS 2.80 GoldBase (Zeta-1)
 * Origin: The Matrix Data Bank BBS, Rochester, Ny (1:2613/477)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 195 of 285
 From : Frank Glover                        1:2613/477      .îí 29 .íâ 96 20:39
 To   : Frank Swarbrick
 Subj : Re: SLIDERS/ANY NEWS?
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

FS>  As for VR.5, I don't remember mentioning it in my message (you really
FS>  should use quotes), but it only lasted a few months in the spring of
FS>  1995.  A shame, because it was getting interesting, but the first few
FS>  episodes were pretty bad and lost most of the possible fan base...

   I keep hoping that they'll come back with a special or two and tie up loose
ends, like Alien Nation has. But, as you say, it didn't run long enough to get
anything like Alien Nation's base of fans.

FS>  As for MANTIS, I didn't like it, and I've never seen Viper.  That was
FS>  from a few years ago, wasn't it?  Some guy and his car?

   According to today's (1-29) USA Today,Viper is coming back in syndication in
the U.S. Seems it did much better in Europe, and that kept it alive....

   Frank


--- QuickBBS 2.80 GoldBase (Zeta-1)
 * Origin: The Matrix Data Bank BBS, Rochester, Ny (1:2613/477)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 196 of 285
 From : Frank Glover                        1:2613/477      .îí 29 .íâ 96 20:47
 To   : ROBERT LIDGREN
 Subj : Re: X-FILES
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

RL>           world.  Or that two girls born on the same date, at the
RL>           same time, in the same place might not find themselves
RL>           the unfortunate focus of similar unseen forces, converging

   I wonder if this episode wasn't meant to air two weeks earlier? January 12
(when the girls were born) happens to be *my* birthday.

  I was also espically amused by the astrologer checking his employer's
credit....

   Mulder: "I'm a Federal Agent!"

   Astrologer: "Last I heard, the Federal Government couldn't pay its bills!"

   It may not help it in syndication later, but I enjoy the timely humor and
references (Oklahoma City bombing, alien autopsy, etc.) the show makes use
of....

   Frank


--- QuickBBS 2.80 GoldBase (Zeta-1)
 * Origin: The Matrix Data Bank BBS, Rochester, Ny (1:2613/477)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 197 of 285
 From : Barton Paul Levenson                1:129/26        .óá 27 .íâ 96 20:08
 To   : Christian Raven
 Subj : Re: Star Trek Sexism
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Whether or not there are intrinsic differences of behavior in any given group is
irrelevant.  It doesn't free you from the moral necessity of treating people as
individuals.

--- Maximus 3.01
 * Origin: SoundingBoard, Pittsburgh PA (1:129/26)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 198 of 285
 From : Barton Paul Levenson                1:129/26        .óá 27 .íâ 96 20:12
 To   : Bill Clements
 Subj : NUCLEAR
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
I don't have a pro-nuclear arsenal.  Being an SF fan doesn't automatically make
me pro-nuke.  I think a safe nuclear reactor can be built, but if it had
sufficient safeguards it would no longer be economic for generating power.  And
we still wouldn't have anything to do with the wastes.

And, despite your arrogant little lecture on how little everyone else knows
about the subject, I happen to know a fair amount about this.  It helps that I'm
a physicist.

--- Maximus 3.01
 * Origin: SoundingBoard, Pittsburgh PA (1:129/26)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 199 of 285
 From : Barton Paul Levenson                1:129/26        .óá 27 .íâ 96 20:15
 To   : Frank Swarbrick
 Subj : weird tv
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Don't forget the wonderful, thoughtful British import, UFO, which took an absurd
premise and made some spectacular TV SF out of it.  It took place ten years in
the future, in (gasp) 1980!  When there would be a base on the Moon and
intelligent robot spacecraft in Earth orbit.  I haven't seen it on the air in
years, alas.

--- Maximus 3.01
 * Origin: SoundingBoard, Pittsburgh PA (1:129/26)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 200 of 285
 From : Barton Paul Levenson                1:129/26        .óá 27 .íâ 96 20:18
 To   : Todd Sullivan
 Subj : nuclear BS
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Yes, the SL-1 accident was in the early days of nuclear power (1961).  But 2
fatalities in Virginia were in 1975, 2 in Jaslovske Bohunice, Czechoslovakia in
1976, and Chernobyl was in 1986.  You're right, that particular type of accident
is unlikely to recur.  But I'm sure we'll come up with newer, more advanced
sorts of accidents.

--- Maximus 3.01
 * Origin: SoundingBoard, Pittsburgh PA (1:129/26)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 201 of 285
 From : Barton Paul Levenson                1:129/26        .óá 27 .íâ 96 20:21
 To   : Ecarey
 Subj : NUCLEAR
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
I must dissent.  Some untrained people might surprise you with their survival
skills.  It happened in Poland under the Nazis and in Bosnia recently.  Strange
conditions make strange heroes/heroines.

--- Maximus 3.01
 * Origin: SoundingBoard, Pittsburgh PA (1:129/26)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 202 of 285
 From : Nicolai Shapero                     1:102/524       .îí 29 .íâ 96 05:38
 To   : The Raven
 Subj : nuclear BS
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
You've had more than enough time to see my posting regarding this subject --
declaring it "off topic" for ninety days.  Please do not post any further
messages to this thread.

Thank you for your cooperation,

-- Nicolai Shapero, Moderator of the SFFAN echo

--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 203 of 285
 From : Nicolai Shapero                     1:102/524       .îí 29 .íâ 96 05:42
 To   : David Durgee
 Subj : Re: nuclear bs
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
You are posting on a subject that has been declared off-topic by the moderator.
Please do not do this again.

Thank you for your cooperation,

-- Nicolai Shapero, Moderator of the SFFAN echo

--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 204 of 285
 From : Nicolai Shapero                     1:102/524       .îí 29 .íâ 96 05:42
 To   : David Little
 Subj : Star Wars Novelizations
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Jan 27 17:13>, David Little (1:106/7315) wrote to James Walton:

 DL>    .  A  .
 DL> .d8  Y8Y  8b.         -=The DoLittle 8-)=-
 DL> 888   8   888    Star Wars, The Role Playing Game
 DL> 888b.d8b.d888            Play By E-Mail
 DL> `88888888888'  Game Master and Useless Trivia Guru
 DL>   `"Y888P"'        dolittle@frappy.brewich.com

 DL>... "I'm ready for anything" - Luke Skywalker
 DL>--- FreeMail & Blue Wave/DOS v2.21
 DL> * Origin: The Wizard's Realm ** (713) 946-7315 ** (1:106/7315)

Multi-line signatures like the above may be the rule on the Internet where, for
the most part, the communications costs are borne by corporations rather than by
individuals, but they are frowned upon in FidoNet.  More importantly, on this
conference, they are out-and-out forbidden.

Please restrict yourself to a single line signature in future.

Thank you for your cooperation,

-- Nicolai Shapero, Moderator of the SFFAN echo


--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 205 of 285
 From : Channon Lang                        1:130/809       .òp 30 .íâ 96 06:33
 To   : Tony Trujillo
 Subj : Re: Tom Holt & PTerry
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE 1.11+
From a dark bottomless pit,Tony Trujillo screamed up to Channon Lang about Tom
Holt & PTerry..

 MI>> I am reading "Who's Afraid of Beowulf?" now.
 TT>> I wish I could find my copy. It's around here somewhere but
 TT>> I can't seem to locate it.
 CL>  Now that was one book I really enjoyed....If I remember correctly, I
 CL>  did alot of giggling...

 TT> Have you ever read Holt's YE GODS!, FLYING DUTCH or EXPECTING SOMEONE
 TT> TALLER? I thought EST was a better attempt...or at least I
 TT> thought it was funnier than the other two. I've been meaning
 TT> to read more Holt but you can't hardly find his books in the
 TT> new books stores. So far the only two I've found locally
 TT> were FLYING DUTCH and EXPECTING SOMEONE TALLER.

 Well, I've seen EST, but didn't have the money at the time...sigh...what
 happened to my money bag of holding??? When I went back with the money,
 the book, of course was gone....I haven't seen it since...

 Sorry about taking so long about getting back to you, I just realized that
 somehow, I never read this mail packet...

 Channon


... Why isn't phonetically spelled that way?
--- MachoEcho 0.5ñ
 * Origin: The State of Confusion * Arlington Tx * 817-274-1920 * (1:130/809)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 206 of 285
 From : Otto Cordray                        1:106/1393      .òp 30 .íâ 96 06:57
 To   : Jerry Van Kooten
 Subj : The Guide and it's Incarnations...
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
'Infocom' jogged my memory a bit. When the NPR station at Texas A&M played the
radio eps. back in '87, I believe one of the "sponsors" was Infocom:specifically
plugging the game; I think Zork got a mention, too. However, I've never played
the game.

Otto

--- Maximus/2 3.01
 * Origin: The Round Table, BBS of Gulf Coast Mensa * 922-1393 (1:106/1393)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 207 of 285
 From : Daniel Hussong                      2:2468/9938     .pä 31 .íâ 96 22:19
 To   : Uwe Lauth
 Subj : GummiBerger
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Hallo Herr Lauth,
Wie geht es Ihnen ? Ich hoffe es ist soweit alles in Ordnung.
Wollte nur mal hren ob Sie den Bundesliga Manager schon ausprobiert
haben, und wie es geklappt hatt.
Ich bin nmlich im mom. auf ihren Namen in der Box getroffen, da habe ich mir
gedacht "fragste halt mal !"
mfg.       "Danni"

--- Maximus/2 2.01wb
 * Origin: OBELIX (2:2468/9938)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 208 of 285
 From : Dean Sweatman                       1:396/1030      .åò 01 .åâ 96 14:40
 To   : All
 Subj : Jerry Segal
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12  93-0696
 * Crossposted from: PRIVATEInter

This message will be crossposted to a number of Fido echos and
Internet news groups.  Sorry but there are some that will feel
that this news is important.

I was reading some inter-net traffic this morning that stated
that Jerry Segal (one of the creators of Superman and other
credits not listed to save space) died Monday morning.  Can this
be confirmed?

Also mentioned was the death of Burne Hogarth (artist of the
Tarzan Newspaper strip in days gone by and other credits not
listed) died either Sunday or Monday.  Can this be confirmed?

In checking other news groups and Fido Echos I do not find the
traffic that I would think that events of this nature would
spawn so I am wondering if the information is correct or if the
hit that comics fandom takes with this news has stunned us so
badly that the shock has yet to wear off.

Fiawol


... Dean Sweatman in his continuing & relentless quest toward Fugheadednes

___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20 [NR]

--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12
 * Origin: Black Tower BBS!  (1:396/1030.0)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 209 of 285
 From : Michael Harper                      1:123/10        .pä 31 .íâ 96 20:12
 To   : Chris Ogniben
 Subj : Dangerous Babes
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 -=> Tossing back another tequila, Chris Ogniben told Michael Harper about

  Dangerous Babes...

 CO> Do you people have anything else you may want to talk about, for
 CO> Space Above and Beyond.  For one thing, I havn't been able to find
 CO> much being discussed in any other forums, other than a networked sci fi
 CO> conference.  But, let's see who else is in here, that are fans of
 CO> Space Above and Beyond, and let's talk about a few things.  Like
 CO> episodes we liked, and stuff that may make interesting discussions
 CO> started.

 I may not be able to do too much messaging for a bit, Chris. The new
 job is taking a lot of my goofoff time and diverting it to more
 profitable areas. When I get home at night, the last thing I want to do
 is sit down in front of this thing and answer mail. I intend to do as
 much as possible on my days off, but I'm gonna have to cut back on a
 lot of things.


... The trouble with being a god is that you've got no one to pray to.
--- RA/FD/FMail
 * Origin: The Eclectic Fox -- Memphis TN  (901)327-1008 (1:123/10)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 210 of 285
 From : Michael Harper                      1:123/10        .pä 31 .íâ 96 20:12
 To   : Chris Ogniben
 Subj : Dangerous Babes
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 -=> Tossing back another tequila, Chris Ogniben told Michael Harper about

  Dangerous Babes...

 CO> Hey watch it with the language here.  But, since we are on the
 CO> subject of talking about dangerous woman.  What about XENA - WARRIOR
 CO> PRINCESS.. She is one hot babe, and one that could really kick your
 CO> butt.  I sure would like to take her on a date, or to get to know her
 CO> better, maybe even marrying her, and raise a family.  But, the point
 CO> is, she is a tough one also.

 Very true. I seem to remember reading someplace that Lucy Lawless is
 already married. From the moves, I'd say that she's got a fair amount
 of martial arts training. And yes, she is a majorly hot and and
 dangerous babe.


... "Kissing girls is a goodness.  It beats hell out of card games."
--- RA/FD/FMail
 * Origin: The Eclectic Fox -- Memphis TN  (901)327-1008 (1:123/10)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 211 of 285
 From : Michael Harper                      1:123/10        .pä 31 .íâ 96 20:12
 To   : Brad Morgan
 Subj : Foundation Again
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 -=> Tossing back another tequila, Brad Morgan told Christopher O'conor about

  Foundation Again...

 CO->I've only read the trilogy, so I can't help.  But, for the record, Star
 CO->Wars has NINE parts, not six.  (Three trilogies - one before "A New
 CO->Hope", one after "Return of the Jedi")

 BM> Why can't I find the other 6 books? Back when the earth was cooling,
 BM> when the initial Star Wars came out, I remember seeing all 9 books in
 BM> the bookstore, but I haven't been able to find the 1st or 3rd trilogy
 BM> since...I have checked books in print off and on during the years, but
 BM> still, no books...I'm starting to wonder if I was hallucinating way
 BM> back then...

 Because the others haven't been done yet. There were the three original
 SW novelizations, Splinter Of The Mind's Eye, and the Han Solo and
 Lando Calrissian trilogies, but until the recent SW novels by Tim Zahn,
 Kevin Anderson and everybody else, the only written material was that
 stuff. Give them a little time; it'll be here. I think Lucas is working
 on getting the script and other stuff together for the next film. I
 sure hope so.


... Story, time and place -- these are the essentials. --Cordwainer Smith
--- RA/FD/FMail
 * Origin: The Eclectic Fox -- Memphis TN  (901)327-1008 (1:123/10)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 212 of 285
 From : Nicolai Shapero                     1:102/524       .pä 31 .íâ 96 06:50
 To   : Barton Paul Levenson
 Subj : NUCLEAR
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
This subject has been declared off-topic for the next 90 days.  Please post no
further messages to this thread.

Thank you for your cooperation,

-- Nicolai Shapero, Moderator of the SFFAN echo

--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 213 of 285
 From : Nicolai Shapero                     1:102/524       .pä 31 .íâ 96 06:53
 To   : Todd Sullivan
 Subj : BS!!
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Re humans being such weaklings:

"The meek shall inherit the Earth.  The rest of us are going to the stars!"

-- Nicolai Shapero, the Mad Russian Sysop of StormGate Aerie

--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 214 of 285
 From : Flemming Norup                      2:238/108.26    .pä 31 .íâ 96 17:21
 To   : Star Hawk
 Subj : elfquest
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.MOOD: Singing and dancing :-D
Hi Star Hawk, hope you are having a nice day

27-Jan-96 23:48:39, Star Hawk wrote to Chris Myers
          Subject: elfquest

 SH> http://www.elfquest.com.

 Sounds interresting.....

 SH>      Hey, EQ - Happy Birthday!  Let's party!

 The sincerest regars from Denmark too........

 SH>                                                   Richard A. Pini

 Maybe YOU could do something about the inavailability of EQ in Denmark?



 -=> Yours sincerely, Flemming Norup <=-

                                          ........  a VERY big Fan
--- Terminate 3.00/Pro
 * Origin: CoSysOp pÆ TREKANTENS PC Line - 75911234 - 24Hrs (2:238/108.26)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 215 of 285
 From : Otto Cordray                        1:106/1393      .åò 01 .åâ 96 20:21
 To   : Dean Sweatman
 Subj : Siegel & Hogarth
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Confirming...

I read about Siegel this morning in the Houston Chronicle and I heard about
Hogarth this weekend on the radio (although the report I heard credited him with
being the creator of Tarzan, not just doing the comic strip.)

Otto

--- Maximus/2 3.01
 * Origin: The Round Table, BBS of Gulf Coast Mensa * 922-1393 (1:106/1393)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 216 of 285
 From : Chip Griffin                        1:320/301       .cê 28 .íâ 96 10:57
 To   : Brion Lienhart
 Subj : Re: nuclear BS
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On 01/28/96 (@10:56:28) Brion Lienhart typed:

BL> Whatever. I got out of the Navy in 1985.

I joined the Navy in Jan 1985 ... and served dutifully til 5/1/1993 ...

de Chip [N1MIE] President of TRAUG         quarry@q.continuum.net


--- MacKennel 2.2.1
 * Origin: The Quarry: 860-889-6427 -- Amateur Radio & Mac User (1:320/301.0)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 217 of 285
 From : Chip Griffin                        1:320/301       .cê 28 .íâ 96 11:05
 To   : David Johnston
 Subj : Re: Nuclear Bs
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On 01/28/96 (@11:02:08) David Johnston typed:

DJ> -> Greenpeace IS a TERRORIST organization, their methods prove it!

DJ> A terrorist organisation is one which kills noncombatants in an attempt to
DJ> throw fear into the general public and the political leadership. When did
DJ> Greenpeace do this?

I disagree whole heartedly.  Here's what Webster has to say about TERRORISM:

n: The systematic use of terror especially as a means of coercion

That would make anyone who uses said methods to be a TERRORIST.  Given this
definition I think Greenpeace aptly fits the definition of a TERRORIST
organization.  They use fear to try and coerce corporations and government
agencies to submit to their view of reality including such things as whaling
and nuclear issues.

de Chip [N1MIE] President of TRAUG         quarry@q.continuum.net


--- MacKennel 2.2.1
 * Origin: The Quarry: 860-889-6427 -- Amateur Radio & Mac User (1:320/301.0)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 218 of 285
 From : Chip Griffin                        1:320/301       .cê 28 .íâ 96 11:11
 To   : Nicolai Shapero
 Subj : Re: nuclear
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On 01/28/96 (@11:10:33) Nicolai Shapero typed:

NS> through to be useful.  Oh, and by the by, there's a fair amount of loss in
NS> power transmission through conventional power grids too...

Yes, I know that.  I-squared R losses ... I know them well ... I once worked
and trained as an electrician ...

de Chip [N1MIE] President of TRAUG         quarry@q.continuum.net


--- MacKennel 2.2.1
 * Origin: The Quarry: 860-889-6427 -- Amateur Radio & Mac User (1:320/301.0)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 219 of 285
 From : Chip Griffin                        1:320/301       .cê 28 .íâ 96 11:17
 To   : J.T. Smith
 Subj : Re: nuclear
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On 01/28/96 (@11:16:06) J.T. Smith typed:

JS>  Negative.  I used to live right near the bloody place.  It was in the
JS> Morning Call, and several other papers local to the area.  If I could get
JS> me hands on the dates, I would.  Found out about this when I was a

So what you are saying is that you are foolish enough to believe what you
read/hear in the mass media?

As a member of an organization that is routinely victimized (no exaggeration
here) by local newspapers I can attest that usually only the smallest fraction
of the information therein has any basis in reality.

de Chip [N1MIE] President of TRAUG         quarry@q.continuum.net


--- MacKennel 2.2.1
 * Origin: The Quarry: 860-889-6427 -- Amateur Radio & Mac User (1:320/301.0)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 220 of 285
 From : Chip Griffin                        1:320/301       .cê 28 .íâ 96 11:23
 To   : Bianca Wesslak
 Subj : Re: nuclear
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On 01/28/96 (@11:20:25) Bianca Wesslak typed:

BW>  I live in the blast radias of seabrook.  Like I said before, I just don't
BW> like the idea of nuke energy.  INMHO not worth the risk.

Again you show severe lack of understanding.  (a) there is no such thing as a
blast radius for a nuclear POWER plant, there is NOTHING explosive here  (b)
your stating that is not worth the risk means nothing since you obviously
don't understand it and are therefore unqualified in any way, shape, means, or
form to make an educated decision in that regard.  I highly recommend you read
some objective material on the subject (not the stuff you get from Greenpeace)
before making a decision.

Your remark is like someone saying that a science fiction novel causes cancer
because you heard a rumor to that effect.  Preposterous.

de Chip [N1MIE] President of TRAUG         quarry@q.continuum.net


--- MacKennel 2.2.1
 * Origin: The Quarry: 860-889-6427 -- Amateur Radio & Mac User (1:320/301.0)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 221 of 285
 From : Glenn Shaheen                       1:3600/7        .òp 30 .íâ 96 16:43
 To   : Kay Shapero
 Subj : Star Trek
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

KS>There is that.  However, I doubt it explains Vulcan. :->

        Yeah, but it could be *SOMETHING* like that. Maybe. I guess.
-=-
 * OLX 2.2 * SYSTEM ERROR:  press F13 to continue...

--- SLMAIL v3.5C  (#1540)
 * Origin: Robotech þ Lake City's Music*Demo BBS þ [904] 758*9477 (1:3600/7)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 222 of 285
 From : Owen E. Oulton                      1:243/45        .pä 31 .íâ 96 20:46
 To   : Frank Swarbrick
 Subj : X-FILES
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 RL> DID YOU SEE THE MOST RECENT EPISODE OF X-FILES TITLED: Syzygy?

 FS> I did indeed.  I even looked up that word in the dictionary.

 FS> syzygy: a pair of things, eps. a pair of opposites

Actually, you want the astronomical/astrological definition.  A syzygy is when
two or more planets visually appear to line up, which is the conjunction the
astrologer was talking about.

CFN, O

--- Maximus 2.01wb
 * Origin: Pandora's Box, Ottawa, Ont. 613-829-1209 (1:243/45)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 223 of 285
 From : Owen E. Oulton                      1:243/45        .pä 31 .íâ 96 21:04
 To   : Frank Glover
 Subj : Re: Star Trek
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 FG>    This would be interesting. She also seemed to know a
 FG> fair amount about Data. (espically for someone not
 FG> originally part of Starfleet) How much information on

Torres was originally part of StarFleet.  She completed most of StarFleet
Academy before leaving and becoming a Maquis.  She's also had a year of reading
up on StarFleet engineering in order to do her job as Chief Engineer, so it's
not too surprising for her to be aware of Data.

CFN, O

--- Maximus 2.01wb
 * Origin: Pandora's Box, Ottawa, Ont. 613-829-1209 (1:243/45)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 224 of 285
 From : Gerry Normandeau                    1:163/430       .pä 31 .íâ 96 18:19
 To   : All
 Subj : DS9 Name
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Hi I was looking for anyone who can tell me the name that
in the DS9 episode "Our Man Bashir" Sisco's Character on
the holodec was. I only remembur his last name, Noa. Can any
one tell me his full name.


... FLW: "Make Me!"
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

--- Maximus 2.01wb
 * Origin: Watership Down BBS, Kanata , ON (1:163/430)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 225 of 285
 From : Owen E. Oulton                      1:243/45        .åò 01 .åâ 96 01:58
 To   : Shawn Merrow
 Subj : Re: Space: Above & Beyond
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 SM> What do you think of McQueen. What type of injury caused to be grounded?

He took a serious head wound in the pilot episode when his original squadron,
the Angry Angels, was wiped out by the Chigs.

CFN, O

--- Maximus 2.01wb
 * Origin: Pandora's Box, Ottawa, Ont. 613-829-1209 (1:243/45)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 226 of 285
 From : Kay Shapero                         1:102/524       .åò 01 .åâ 96 08:22
 To   : Brion Lienhart
 Subj : Books
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Jan 30 11:26>, Brion Lienhart (1:213/700.2) wrote to Kay Shapero:

 BL>I second the nomination of _Glory Season_. Have you read
 BL>_Brightness Reef_ yet? It's obviously the first book of a series,
 BL>but I liked it anyway. Ends on a major cliff-hanger.

Actually it's Brightness Reef that's in the TRQ - haven't seen Glory Season.
I'll have to hunt it up.  Is it recent, or has it been out for awhile?

 BL>As for _Grunts_ I guess I haven't read too many Tolkien-rip-off
 BL>generic fantasies, because I didn't care for it at all. I
 BL>generally try to avoid the TROGFs, I can usually tell by the

It also dumps on the non ripoffs, and of course LOTR & the Hobbit itself.  At
that, I'm not quite sure why I enjoyed the book considering that I've thrown
books down the stairwell for a far smaller range of atrocities.  Anyway,
"Concerning taste there can be no argument" said the lady as she kissed the
cow."


--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 227 of 285
 From : Lance Taylor-Warren                 1:213/777       .cê 28 .íâ 96 23:40
 To   : All
 Subj : SFFan
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Setup message for Fidonet Echo: SFFan


--- MacKennel 2.2.1
 * Origin: Nevada Mac - Sierra Nevada Apple Users Group (702) 3 (1:213/777.0)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 228 of 285
 From : Chris Ogniben                       1:2604/568      .åò 01 .åâ 96 11:11
 To   : Todd Sullivan
 Subj : BS!!
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

   Dude, you are a big loser.  Because, you think that having a
backbone is going to change anything.  Let me give you a little tip,
when you got a race of lifeforms trying to take over your planet.  and
they have the ability to slice through your body and your strong
backbone as you put it.  That you are gonna die like a wimp.  Since
they have technology that can wipe us out just like that.  And i think
you are a dork, since you think that i am dude that doesn't have a
backbone?  I all most killed someone, in a fight.  And i would risk my
life any day to kick the crap out you losers that think, that whatever
they say in return is right, and i am wrong.  Well it's time to wake up
and see that i am right and your wrong, and you are to stupid to
realize that.


--- WM v3.11/93-0947
 * Origin: Waterside BBS - NJ - (201) 641-5375 28.8k  (1:2604/568)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 229 of 285
 From : Chris Ogniben                       1:2604/568      .åò 01 .åâ 96 11:13
 To   : Emilio Ares
 Subj : Re: SLIDERS/ANY NEWS?
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

   Hey i am a fan of all sci fi.  I just never got around to add the
other shows.  But, i am only talking about loosing the series Strange
Luck, to Sliders since i think Strange Luck is pretty cool.  And i
wonder which episodes you seen all ready, and if you would want to talk
about it.  I seen all the episodes since the series started, and i
really like it.  And, i hope it stays around.  Do you know or have any
word to when the next new episode of Strange Luck is gonna happen?  I
know that the X-files are running a series of new episodes now.  But, i
hope strange luck does to.


--- WM v3.11/93-0947
 * Origin: Waterside BBS - NJ - (201) 641-5375 28.8k  (1:2604/568)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 230 of 285
 From : Chris Ogniben                       1:2604/568      .åò 01 .åâ 96 11:15
 To   : Emilio Ares
 Subj : Re: X-files
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

    I used to read a lot of books, mostly stories that were from Tom
Clancy a good author.  But, as for sci fi, i really don't get myself
into books, i just watch all the stuff on tv.  But, i know that books
are as good too, than tv, but, i just don't find myself able to read a
lot of books now a days.


--- WM v3.11/93-0947
 * Origin: Waterside BBS - NJ - (201) 641-5375 28.8k  (1:2604/568)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 231 of 285
 From : Chris Ogniben                       1:2604/568      .åò 01 .åâ 96 11:36
 To   : Mark Jones
 Subj : Cybersex
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

   You people are sick, morons that don't have a life to be talking
this crap in here.  This is the science fiction conference, and not the
cybersex conference, so if you want to continue this blabber in here,
your gonna pay dearly.


--- WM v3.11/93-0947
 * Origin: Waterside BBS - NJ - (201) 641-5375 28.8k  (1:2604/568)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 232 of 285
 From : Chris Ogniben                       1:2604/568      .åò 01 .åâ 96 11:38
 To   : Mark Jones
 Subj : Dangerous Babes
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

   Hey i will admit that Gabrielle is funny, and buetuful all in one.
But, does Xena really need a sidekick?  I think it's great that since
Xena really doesn't have much of family around her.  That Gabrielle
makes a good sister.  I really never was angry that Gabrielle was
around Xena.  I think it's great, and if had the chance, i would do


--- WM v3.11/93-0947
 * Origin: Waterside BBS - NJ - (201) 641-5375 28.8k  (1:2604/568)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 233 of 285
 From : Frank Glover                        1:2613/477      .åò 01 .åâ 96 19:58
 To   : Ecarey
 Subj : Re: STAR TREK
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

Ec>  Um, there's been some experience in the US military that female
Ec>  trainers
Ec>  get better results out of male recruits, but male trainers get better
Ec>  results out of _female_ recruits. Each gender seems to learn better
Ec>  from
Ec>  the _other_ gender, other things being equal.

   Research connected with future fighter cockpits and instrumentation has shown
that malepilots respond more readily to female voices, and so, the synthesized
computer voices are female in character. (Wether they've looked into *female*
pilot response, I don't know.)

   On hearing this, I thought back to C.O.R.A., a Viper computer in a Battlestar
Galactica episode....

   Frank


--- QuickBBS 2.80 GoldBase (Zeta-1)
 * Origin: The Matrix Data Bank BBS, Rochester, Ny (1:2613/477)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 234 of 285
 From : Todd Sullivan                       1:202/720.3     .pä 31 .íâ 96 16:39
 To   : Barton Paul Levenson
 Subj : weird tv
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
While substituting for Q, Barton Paul Levenson took extreme delight in saying to
Frank Swarbrick, "You'll do anything I say?"  Frank quailed when the words
"weird tv" were uttered.

 BPL> Don't forget the wonderful, thoughtful British import, UFO, which took
 BPL> an absurd premise and made some spectacular TV SF out of it.  It took
 BPL> place ten years in the future, in (gasp) 1980!  When there would be a
 BPL> base on the Moon and intelligent robot spacecraft in Earth orbit.  I
 BPL> haven't seen it on the air in years, alas.

Hmmm.  It might appear on the Sci-Fi Channel, if you have it, Barton.  If
"Thunderbirds Are Go!" can be re-shown, anything's possible.

Where did I see it?  Can't remember precisely (I think it was TNT or TBS), but
it was on a Standard Cable package channel...Got it!  WOR Chicago!

Todd Sullivan

... "Good laws lead to the making of better ones; bad ones bring about
     worse." --Jean Jacques Rousseau

-*- ASTG 1.9

--- Spot 1.3a Unregistered
 * Origin: Todd's Spot in the Continuum (1:202/720.3)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 235 of 285
 From : The Raven                           1:363/309       .åò 01 .åâ 96 00:10
 To   : Chris Ogniben
 Subj : Star Trek
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 CO> You sir are a scumbag!  And a loser!

 <...>

 CO> You needs to be shot on sight.

     Welcome to the twit filter, cheese-boy.  Or, as Chris Carter says,
*PLONK*!  I got no more use for you.

     Jack Butler



... "You write drivel unfit for lightbulb commercials." -- The Brain
--- Blue Wave/DOS v2.20 [NR]
 * Origin: Forethought BBS -=- Orlando, FL -=- 407-679-6561 (1:363/309)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 236 of 285
 From : The Raven                           1:363/309       .åò 01 .åâ 96 00:26
 To   : Nicolai Shapero
 Subj : weird tv
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 FS> As for Weird Science, isn't that a comedy?  I've never watched it
 FS> (other than the original movie).  It looks so, well...stupid.

 NS> It is a comedy.  And sometimes it's reasonable...as well as funny.

     I thought the episode with the android Chet had its moments...

     Jack Butler



... "God said, "Let Newton be!" and all was light." -- Alexander Pope
--- Blue Wave/DOS v2.20 [NR]
 * Origin: Forethought BBS -=- Orlando, FL -=- 407-679-6561 (1:363/309)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 237 of 285
 From : The Raven                           1:363/309       .åò 01 .åâ 96 00:28
 To   : Kay Shapiro
 Subj : Adding to the List
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 CC> *plonk*  (For those who just joined our program, "plonk" is the
 CC> sound of someone hitting a killfile or twit filter.)

     This one deserves to be added to the list, don'tcha thinks?

     Jack Butler



... "A simple `no' would have worked..." -- Richie Ryan
--- Blue Wave/DOS v2.20 [NR]
 * Origin: Forethought BBS -=- Orlando, FL -=- 407-679-6561 (1:363/309)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 238 of 285
 From : Owen E. Oulton                      1:243/45        .åò 01 .åâ 96 14:36
 To   : Gerry Normandeau
 Subj : DS9 Name
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 GN> Hi I was looking for anyone who can tell me the name that
 GN> in the DS9 episode "Our Man Bashir" Sisco's Character on
 GN> the holodec was. I only remembur his last name, Noa. Can any
 GN> one tell me his full name.

Might as well go through the whole list:

Kira:     Colonel Anastasia Komonanov (Come on and off)
Worf:     Mr. Duchamps
Sisko:    Dr. Hypocritas Noah (I'm assuming that it was a play on the word
                hypocrite rather than on Hippocrates, A} from the pronunciation
                and B} he didn't strike me as a man whose first priniple is
                "Harm None.")
O'Brien:  Falcon
Dax:      Dr. Honey Baer

In terms of the Bond "formula," Dr. Noah was the major villain, Duchamps the
favoured henchman, O'Brien the chief enforcer, Col. Komonanov the bad Bond girl
and Dr. Baer the good Bond girl.

CFN, O

--- Maximus 2.01wb
 * Origin: Pandora's Box, Ottawa, Ont. 613-829-1209 (1:243/45)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 239 of 285
 From : Kevin Ahearn                        1:109/104       .ÿò 02 .åâ 96 18:58
 To   : Chris Ogniben
 Subj : Cybersex
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 CO>    You people are sick, morons that don't have a life to be talking
 CO> this crap in here.  This is the science fiction conference, and not the
 CO> cybersex conference, so if you want to continue this blabber in here,
 CO> your gonna pay dearly.

...said the pot to the kettle.

--Kevin


--- Maximus/2 3.01
 * Origin: ShanErin (1:109/104)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 240 of 285
 From : Phill Ash                           1:275/160       .ÿò 02 .åâ 96 08:40
 To   : Jerry Van Kooten
 Subj : .ystertags...
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE 1.11+

 JVK> OK, last one off-topic; you got a Fido address? My addresses:

        got it!
        btw... BOC is *not* off-topic!  After all, they are the premier
        science-fiction/fantasy band.  With Michael Moorcock and Eric
        Von Lustbader penning lyrics for them and their being the only
        band to build an entire album from their work for "Heavy Metal",
        BOC (and a handful of others) *belong* here! <G>

 JVK> All lyrics except Wings of Mercury. I haven't got that one neither.
 JVK> But there are some more I'm missing, I believe.

        on their way <G>

 JVK> Flat Out has just been released on CD (French division of Portrait);

        I was wondering about that... there's been a fair bit of hype on
        the BOC webpage about it...

 PA> I'm teaching my 3year-old son to sing "Godzilla" in the shower.

 JVK> Including the Japanese parts?

        Not yet <EG>

 PA> Any other questions?  =)
 JVK> Tapes?

        As in "fan albums" (ahem!) nah...


Your pal:  PhlAsh
---
 þ Ùystertags v1.1 þ Oh no!  There goes Tokyo!  Go go Godzilla, yeah
~~~ ReneWave v1.01 [NR]
--- Smile :)
 * Origin: * The Beast's Lair * (804)498-3070 * Va Beach VA * (1:275/160)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 241 of 285
 From : Phill Ash                           1:275/160       .ÿò 02 .åâ 96 08:40
 To   : Robert Siemborski
 Subj : Star Trek
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE 1.11+

 >        Now that Torres is capable of constructing a 'sub'Soong-class
 >        android, will she do so?

 RS> Remember, the units that she has the specs for wound up killing their
 RS> masters.  I don't think that would be a positive end to the Voyager
 RS> series.

        *I* wouldn't use the same programming...

 RS> Yes, but man-killer robots don't seem like a logical replacement.
 RS> 2 justifications against...
 RS> 2 reasons she shoudn't...

        Your arguement is based on the assumption that the 'war-mode' is
        a function of the 'bots design.  The 'bot that she built for the
        others didn't immediately turn against her as the others had.
        Why?  It hadn't been *programmed* to do so.


Your pal:  PhlAsh
---
 þ Ùystertags v1.1 þ And the black sword keeps on killing 'til the end of time
~~~ ReneWave v1.01 [NR]
--- Smile :)
 * Origin: * The Beast's Lair * (804)498-3070 * Va Beach VA * (1:275/160)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 242 of 285
 From : The Raven                           1:363/309       .åò 01 .åâ 96 11:28
 To   : Nicolai Shapero
 Subj : Warnings and Disk Crashes
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 NS> You've had more than enough time to see my posting regarding this
 NS> subject -- declaring it "off topic" for ninety days.  Please do not
 NS> post any further messages to this thread.

     Not a problem.  But you should know that I've been down with a disk
crash for a bit, and *didn't* see the post regarding this topic until it
was quoted by someone else, *after* this last bunch of messages went out.
Again, I apologize, but no, I *didn't* have enough time to see your post
regarding this subject.


 NS> Thank you for your cooperation,

     It was getting boring anyway, Nic.  <G>

     Jack Butler


... "Time is slippery." -- Kim Linder
--- Blue Wave/DOS v2.20 [NR]
 * Origin: Forethought BBS -=- Orlando, FL -=- 407-679-6561 (1:363/309)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 243 of 285
 From : The Raven                           1:363/309       .åò 01 .åâ 96 11:31
 To   : Ecarey
 Subj : TV AND SF
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 TR> Heh.  An image just came to me, from "Demolition Man".  The oldies
 TR> station played "minitunes", which were once advertising jingles of the
 TR> late 20th Century.

 Ec> The scary thing is, though, some of them are _good_.

     Heh.  "I'd like to teach the world to sing..." <G>


 Ec> And I wouldn't be even a little bit surprised to see _some_ commercials
 Ec> survive into the future as much-admired examples of great art produced
 Ec> for television.  [Though not all of them will necessarily have been any
 Ec> good as _commercials_ - during the Superbowl on Sunday, one of the
 Ec> commercials was a truly captivating piece about horses playing football.
 Ec> I couldn't begin to place the product, though, until I realized that the
 Ec> horses were _Clydesdales_: it was supposed to be a Budweiser ad, but
 Ec> they didn't show either the product or the product name prominently
 Ec> enough.]

     No doubt.  I've seen similar commercials, one in which wispy, beautiful
women, a field of daisies, horses, and a sunrise all combine somehow to
bring a message of... refrigerators.  But I agree with you that some of them
may well be taken as art... after all, some of them *should* be (I'm thinking
of the old Pepsi commercial set at a dance; a boy nervously approaches a girl,
asks her to dance, she stands up, and she's three inches taller than he is...)

     Jack Butler



... "Cult" is what the big church calls the little church.
--- Blue Wave/DOS v2.20 [NR]
 * Origin: Forethought BBS -=- Orlando, FL -=- 407-679-6561 (1:363/309)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 244 of 285
 From : Todd Sullivan                       1:202/720.3     .åò 01 .åâ 96 18:49
 To   : Chris Ogniben
 Subj : Defeatist drivel
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
While substituting for Q, Chris Ogniben took extreme delight in saying to me,
"You'll do anything I say?"  I quailed when the words "Defeatist drivel" were
uttered.

 CO> that is all fantasy and a past life time.  But, i can understand that
 CO> the intelligence area for the people of this world.  That there is a
 CO> good majority of people that are smart.  But, who's to say that there
 CO> is also a larger majority of people that are not smart.

How do you judge?  IQ?  "Street smarts"?  Ability to learn? There's a lot of
area--most of it grey--in just what constitutes being smart.  And who judges?
You?  Me?  I'd just as soon not.

Todd Sullivan

... "It is only the ignorant who despise education." --Publilius Syrus

-*- ASTG 1.9

--- Spot 1.3a Unregistered
 * Origin: Todd's Spot in the Continuum (1:202/720.3)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 245 of 285
 From : Mark Jones                          1:105/302.47    .îí 29 .íâ 96 18:20
 To   : Chris Ogniben
 Subj : Nuclear
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On (27 Jan 96) Chris Ogniben wrote to David Johnston...

 CO>    I still say that the human race, is very vunerable to be taken over
 CO> by another race.  And the reason is that we are weak, though many
 CO> people say that we are not.  But, we are.  And an alien race that is
 CO> bred to conqure or has evolved to take over planets that have weakling
 CO> life forms.  That we are a prime canditate to be taken over easily.

   Many, many animal species are stronger than we are.
   Many, many animal species are faster than we are.
   Many, many animal species have sharper senses than we have.
   But WE are the champions in the survival lottery so far, Chris.
The lions and tigers and bears (oh my!) survive at our sufferance.
Sure, they get the occasional (or even more than occasional) hapless
villager or tourist...but we've driven the tigers nearly to
extinction--and not vice versa.  Ditto for most of the other large
land predators.

   You say "we are weak" without any justification.  Weak--compared to
whom?  And how do you *know* unless you've had contact with these
allegedly superior invaders?


--- PPoint 1.78
 * Origin: Folcroft Sanitarium (hsmith@cure.com) (1:105/302.47)

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 Msg  : 246 of 285
 From : Mark Jones                          1:105/302.47    .pä 31 .íâ 96 18:01
 To   : Frank Swarbrick
 Subj : weird tv
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On (28 Jan 96) Frank Swarbrick wrote to Brion Lienhart...

 FS> ... "It's too late for salvation." --Sheriff Lucas Buck

"Every man pays a price for redemption.  This is yours."
"I'm not looking for redemption."
"You have no choice.  You will be redeemed."

    --the Tulku and Lamont Cranston, from THE SHADOW


--- PPoint 1.78
 * Origin: Folcroft Sanitarium (hsmith@cure.com) (1:105/302.47)

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 Msg  : 247 of 285
 From : Mark Jones                          1:105/302.47    .pä 31 .íâ 96 18:04
 To   : Frank Glover
 Subj : Star Trek
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On (29 Jan 96) Frank Glover wrote to Phill Ash...

 FG>    This would be interesting. She also seemed to know a fair amount
 FG> about Data. (espically for someone not originally part of Starfleet)
 FG> How much information on his construction is in the `public domain'
 FG> since his discovery, and likely to be in Voyager's databases? I would
 FG> wonder about the availability of materials, but Data himself almost
 FG> succeeded at building an android with his capability or greater (Lol),
 FG> with resources available on the Enterprise. And in semi-secrecy at
 FG> that.

   I expect that quite a lot of Data's construction details are public
knowledge.  Remember, he was discovered by Star Fleet over twenty
years earlier.  Given the way Star Fleet vessels (Enterprise, Voyager,
etc.) obsessively study everything new--and share the information with
one another--I expect Data got a thorough going over.  And the
Federation doesn't seem to be big on keeping secrets...so probably it
wound up in public databases all over the Federation.

   Besides, B'Lanna is now a Star Fleet officer on a Federation
starship.  And Chief Engineer.  Which means that she's got access to
everything in the databanks on Voyager.  [I realize there might be
security restrictions on some things--but they haven't explicitly said
so, so given the utopian trust the Federation displays....]


--- PPoint 1.78
 * Origin: Folcroft Sanitarium (hsmith@cure.com) (1:105/302.47)

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 Msg  : 248 of 285
 From : Mark Jones                          1:105/302.47    .pä 31 .íâ 96 18:09
 To   : Barton Paul Levenson
 Subj : weird tv
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On (27 Jan 96) Barton Paul Levenson wrote to Frank Swarbrick...

 BP> Don't forget the wonderful, thoughtful British import, UFO, which took
 BP> an absurd premise and made some spectacular TV SF out of it.  It took
 BP> place ten years in the future, in (gasp) 1980!  When there would be a
 BP> base on the Moon and intelligent robot spacecraft in Earth orbit.  I
 BP> haven't seen it on the air in years, alas.

   I caught a single episode of UFO (on the SF Channel?) a while back.
 It was incredibly cheesy--far more so than I remembered it being.
But it was still fun to watch.


--- PPoint 1.78
 * Origin: Folcroft Sanitarium (hsmith@cure.com) (1:105/302.47)

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 Msg  : 249 of 285
 From : Mark Jones                          1:105/302.47    .pä 31 .íâ 96 18:11
 To   : Don Dellmann
 Subj : Dangerous Babes
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On (30 Jan 96) Don Dellmann wrote to Scott Royall...

 DD> I started a Xena thread over in FIDO_FILM a few months back with the
 DD> comment that I had a "crush" on Gabrielle. <G>

I can't blame you.

 DD> She is central to the theme of the story. In the very first
 DD> episode I seem to recall that Gabrielle wanted to be "just like
 DD> Xena", but in actuality, it was Xena who found she really wanted
 DD> to be "innocent" like Gabrielle was.

I was not happy with her originally.  But that's because I hate comic
relief sidekicks.  I hate them...more than words can ever express.
But Gabrielle, like Richie on HIGHLANDER, has turned out to be
something more--and something better--than just a comic sidekick.
Like Richie, she is an innocent...at least compared to their
respective mentors.  And like Richie, she was not a trained, hardened
killer...like their respective mentors are.  But she's learned to
handle herself (as has Richie).  The last episode of XENA had quite a
few battle scenes in which Gabrielle was kicking butt--and holding her
own against serious opposition.

 DD> I think Gabrielle is actually the "anchor" that Xena needed to
 DD> "change her life around", and to recapture the "good" that she
 DD> was looking for. Without Gabrielle, Xena would probably revert
 DD> back to the amoral mercenary she once was.

And without Xena teaching her, Gabrielle would have remained a
helpless innocent--just the sort of victim Xena (in her earlier days)
would have had great fun robbing, enslaving and murdering.


--- PPoint 1.78
 * Origin: Folcroft Sanitarium (hsmith@cure.com) (1:105/302.47)

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 Msg  : 250 of 285
 From : Mark Jones                          1:105/302.47    .pä 31 .íâ 96 18:17
 To   : Brion Lienhart
 Subj : Books
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On (30 Jan 96) Brion Lienhart wrote to Kay Shapero...

 BL> As for _Grunts_ I guess I haven't read too many Tolkien-rip-off
 BL> generic fantasies, because I didn't care for it at all. I
 BL> generally try to avoid the TROGFs, I can usually tell by the
 BL> covers. When it mentions the lowly farmboy on a quest for the
 BL> ceramic nose-flute of Agamoto to save the universe, I give it a
 BL> miss. That's the main reason I passed on David Eddings books for
 BL> so long.

Ditto here.  I can't tell you how many fantasy novels I've picked up
long enough to read the first line of the back-cover blurb...and then
tossed down again.  Been there, done that.

And I also couldn't get through GRUNTS.  Friends of mine thought it
was hysterical, and I borrowed from them.  But while the ideas *were*
funny--they were funnier in concept (and in the retelling) than the
book itself.  It was too much work for too little reward.


--- PPoint 1.78
 * Origin: Folcroft Sanitarium (hsmith@cure.com) (1:105/302.47)

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 Msg  : 251 of 285
 From : Aaron Turon                         1:137/2         .åò 01 .åâ 96 18:21
 To   : Chris Ogniblen
 Subj : Star Trek
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
I'd like to know of any episodes you think are good so I will expand my
knowledge of Star Trek.  :)


--- Opus-CBCS 1.73a
 * Origin: Chipper Clipper * Scott me up beamy! * 941-745-56 (1:137/2.0)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 252 of 285
 From : Steve Thomas                        1:279/27        .ÿò 02 .åâ 96 06:10
 To   : Brion Lienhart
 Subj : elfquest
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Great to see another 'original 21 issue' fan out there!  I got into it
in '82, and why I stopped after the first series after that, I'll never
know, but I plan to keep up on it now.  You and Longhair keep in touch!

                                --Steve (Peacekeeper)

--- PCBoard (R) v15.22/M 2
 * Origin: <<*> Blue Powder <*>> þ St. Albans, WV þ 304-727-6733 (1:279/27)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 253 of 285
 From : Steve Thomas                        1:279/27        .ÿò 02 .åâ 96 06:12
 To   : Longhair
 Subj : elfquest
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
As far as Richard and Wendy's placement in EQ today, all I can quote is
Bob Dylan..."The times, they are a changin'"!

                                      --Peacekeeper

--- PCBoard (R) v15.22/M 2
 * Origin: <<*> Blue Powder <*>> þ St. Albans, WV þ 304-727-6733 (1:279/27)

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 Msg  : 254 of 285
 From : Steve Thomas                        1:279/27        .ÿò 02 .åâ 96 06:23
 To   : Chris Myers
 Subj : elfquest
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
It really does my heart good to see fellow first series readers out
there!  May it long live into '98, our 20th anniversary!

                                    --Steve (Peacekeeper)

--- PCBoard (R) v15.22/M 2
 * Origin: <<*> Blue Powder <*>> þ St. Albans, WV þ 304-727-6733 (1:279/27)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 255 of 285
 From : Steve Thomas                        1:279/27        .ÿò 02 .åâ 96 06:29
 To   : All
 Subj : Marcon 31 in Columbus, O.
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Is anyone out there going to Marcon 31 in Columbus, Ohio?  Let me know.

                                   --Steve

--- PCBoard (R) v15.22/M 2
 * Origin: <<*> Blue Powder <*>> þ St. Albans, WV þ 304-727-6733 (1:279/27)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 256 of 285
 From : Don Dellmann                        1:154/40        .óá 03 .åâ 96 06:09
 To   : Otto Cordray
 Subj : Siegel & Hogarth
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
While tripping merrily through the mail, Otto Cordray was overheard

 OC> Confirming...

 OC> I read about Siegel this morning in the Houston Chronicle and I heard
 OC> about Hogarth this weekend on the radio (although the report I heard
 OC> credited him with being the creator of Tarzan, not just doing the
 OC> comic strip.)

Perhaps the creator of the comic strip, Tarzan was the creation of
Edgar Rice Burroughs.

Don

... Prince to Snow White:  You shared a cottage with WHAT?!?
---
 * Origin: Anonymous BBS -=- Non plus Ultra -=- 414-251-2580 (1:154/40)

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 Msg  : 257 of 285
 From : Frank Glover                        1:2613/477      .ÿò 02 .åâ 96 22:05
 To   : ROBERT LIDGREN
 Subj : Re: X-FILES
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

RL>  Something's up
RL>  here - further evolution in their characters.  I liked it despite the

   I'm inclined to agree with this. I just (and I mean minutes ago) watched the
next episode involving the gargoyles, and I get the hint of at least Scully's
concern for Mulder going somewhere beyond the professional. (Not toward the `L'
word now mind you, but somewhere beyond.) The nature of the plot made it
impossible to tell if his feelings are growing in any way, though.

   Frank


--- QuickBBS 2.80 GoldBase (Zeta-1)
 * Origin: The Matrix Data Bank BBS, Rochester, Ny (1:2613/477)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 258 of 285
 From : Frank Glover                        1:2613/477      .ÿò 02 .åâ 96 22:35
 To   : Dean Sweatman
 Subj : Re: Jerry Segal
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

DS>  I was reading some inter-net traffic this morning that stated
DS>  that Jerry Segal (one of the creators of Superman and other
DS>  credits not listed to save space) died Monday morning.  Can this
DS>  be confirmed?

   This is sadly true. It was on ABC network news.

DS>  Also mentioned was the death of Burne Hogarth (artist of the
DS>  Tarzan Newspaper strip in days gone by and other credits not
DS>  listed) died either Sunday or Monday.  Can this be confirmed?

   No knowledge of this, though....

   Frank


--- QuickBBS 2.80 GoldBase (Zeta-1)
 * Origin: The Matrix Data Bank BBS, Rochester, Ny (1:2613/477)

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 Msg  : 259 of 285
 From : Frank Glover                        1:2613/477      .ÿò 02 .åâ 96 22:38
 To   : Kay Shapero
 Subj : Re: Books
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

KS>  Actually it's Brightness Reef that's in the TRQ - haven't seen Glory
KS>  Season.  I'll have to hunt it up.  Is it recent, or has it been out
KS>  for awhile?

   Six, maybe seven months. Definitely less than a year.

   Frank


--- QuickBBS 2.80 GoldBase (Zeta-1)
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 Msg  : 260 of 285
 From : Frank Swarbrick                     1:104/825       .åò 01 .åâ 96 18:39
 To   : Shawn Merrow
 Subj : Space: Above & Beyond Epi
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12  92-0022
On 01-30-96  19:08 my Very Good Friend Shawn Merrow said:

 -> Space: Above and Beyond  created by Glen Morgan and James Wong
 -> But I heard something that the show will be cancelled...
 SM> Where did you hear this, do you know if it can be stoped.

Hmm...I, for one, haven't heard anything about it being cancelled.  I
*do* know that they spend around $2 million per episode, more than
even DSN or Voyager.  I don't know if this makes them more or less
likely to cancel it...!

        Frank

... No one can hear when you're Screaming in Digital!
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12
 * Origin: The Bailey Information Exchange BBS, 28.8k v.fc  (1:104/825.0)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 261 of 285
 From : Frank Swarbrick                     1:104/825       .åò 01 .åâ 96 18:42
 To   : Nicolai Shapero
 Subj : Space: Above & Beyond Epi
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12  92-0022
On 01-30-96  06:53 my Very Good Friend Nicolai Shapero said:

 NS> On <Jan 26 16:47>, Rudy Hardy (2:293/2602.24) wrote to Boris CDuke:

 RH>But I heard something that the show will be cancelled...

 NS> The statement in TV Guide was that the ratings were surprisingly good
 NS> (especially considering that it's been up against 60 MINUTES for
 NS> cryin' out loud) and that the likelihood was that they would be
 NS> changing the broadcast  day and time (move it later in the evening,
 NS> when kiddies in theory are in  bed, so that the storylines could get a
 NS> trifle darker).

Gosh, if they get any darker we won't be able to see it!  :-)

Can someone tell me what happened in the last five or ten minutes of
"Level of Necessity," the one where Damphouse seemed to be psychic?  I
recorded it and it was shifted 10 minutes later because of the stupid
hockey (I think) game!

        Frank

... No one can hear when you're Screaming in Digital!
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12
 * Origin: The Bailey Information Exchange BBS, 28.8k v.fc  (1:104/825.0)

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 Msg  : 262 of 285
 From : Nicolai Shapero                     1:102/524       .ÿò 02 .åâ 96 07:02
 To   : Frank Glover
 Subj : Re: Nuclear
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Jan 31 22:44>, Frank Glover (1:2613/477) wrote to Chris Ogniben:

 FG>Moon, we could hardly return the favor. Any hostile aliens,
 FG>almost by definition, could cream us if they so chose.

There's supposed to be a new movie coming out Real Soon Now, title INDEPENDENCE
DAY about first contact.  Unpleasant first contact.  (Clip showed a government
building in Wash. DC being blown to flinders...)

-- Nicolai Shapero, the Mad Russian Sysop of StormGate Aerie

--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

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 Msg  : 263 of 285
 From : Nicolai Shapero                     1:102/524       .ÿò 02 .åâ 96 07:05
 To   : Daniel Hussong
 Subj : GummiBerger
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Jan 31 22:19>, Daniel Hussong (2:2468/9938) wrote to Uwe Lauth:

 DH>Hallo Herr Lauth,
 DH>Wie geht es Ihnen ? Ich hoffe es ist soweit alles in Ordnung.
 DH>Wollte nur mal hren ob Sie den Bundesliga Manager schon
 DH>ausprobiert
 DH>haben, und wie es geklappt hatt.
 DH>Ich bin nmlich im mom. auf ihren Namen in der Box getroffen, da
 DH>habe ich mir gedacht "fragste halt mal !"
 DH>mfg.       "Danni"

The official language of this conference is English.  If you post in any other
language, you MUST include a translation.  If you message is intended for only
one person SEND IT NETMAIL, DON'T POST IT TO THIS CONFERENCE.

Thank you for your cooperation,

-- Nicolai Shapero, Moderator of the SFFAN echo


--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 264 of 285
 From : Nicolai Shapero                     1:102/524       .ÿò 02 .åâ 96 07:07
 To   : Chip Griffin
 Subj : Re: Nuclear Bs
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Excuse me, please, but this thread has been declared off-topic, and you have had
more than enough time to see my postings to that effect.

Please do not post any further messages on this subject.

Thank you for your cooperation,

-- Nicolai Shapero, Moderator of the SFFAN echo

--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 265 of 285
 From : Robert Parson                       1:3822/1        .óá 03 .åâ 96 17:59
 To   : Dean Sweatman
 Subj : RE: JERRY SEGAL
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
DEAN had a few words to say about Re: JERRY SEGAL

 DS> that Jerry Segal (one of the creators of Superman) died Monday morning.
 DS> Can this be confirmed?

 DS> Also mentioned was the death of Burne Hogarth (artist of the
 DS> Tarzan Newspaper strip in days gone by) died either Sunday
 DS> or Monday.  Can this be confirmed?

Yes.  Both of them died earlier this week.


 * Silver Xpress V4.3 SW23473

--- QScan/PCB v1.17b / 01-0162
 * Origin: Jackalope Junction 501-785-5381 Ft Smith AR (1:3822/1)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 266 of 285
 From : Robert Parson                       1:3822/1        .óá 03 .åâ 96 17:59
 To   : Frank Glover
 Subj : RE: STAR TREK
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Robert is replying to FRANK who replied to ECAREY on 1 Feb 96 07:58pm

Ec>>  Each gender seems to learn better from the _other_ gender, other things
EC>>  being equal.

 FG>    Research connected with future fighter cockpits and instrumentation
 FG>    has shown that malepilots respond more readily to female voices,

I don't know about all that, but I DO know I remember women's names easier
than men's names.

 * Silver Xpress V4.3 SW23473

--- QScan/PCB v1.17b / 01-0162
 * Origin: Jackalope Junction 501-785-5381 Ft Smith AR (1:3822/1)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 267 of 285
 From : Marc Zingarelli                     1:226/110       .óá 03 .åâ 96 15:28
 To   : The Raven
 Subj : Adding to the List
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12  92-0004

TR> CC> *plonk*  (For those who just joined our program, "plonk" is the
TR> CC> sound of someone hitting a killfile or twit filter.)

TR>     This one deserves to be added to the list, don'tcha thinks?

Isn't that the sound an immortals head makes when it hits the ground
<gdr>.

Where ya' been hiding?  Noticed on the highlander website that they are
listing episodes in september (though the last 4 and the september
episodes are listed TBA).  Does this mean we get a 5th season.

Later

Marc
Internet:  marc.zingarelli@tcr.com

---
 * OLXWin 1.00b * 82d Airborne: when it absolutely has to be invaded overnight

--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12
 * Origin: The Computer Room-Pickerington, Oh (614)861-8377  (1:226/110.0)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 268 of 285
 From : Bill Clements                       1:18/230        .ÿò 02 .åâ 96 00:31
 To   : Barton Paul Levenson
 Subj : EDUCATION
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
BPL>I don't have a pro-nuclear arsenal.  Being an SF fan doesn't
BPL>automatically make me pro-nuke.  I think a safe nuclear
BPL>reactor can be built, but if it had sufficient safeguards it
BPL>would no longer be economic for generating power.  And we
BPL>still wouldn't have anything to do with the wastes.

BPL>And, despite your arrogant little lecture on how little
BPL>everyone else knows about the subject, I happen to know a
BPL>fair amount about this.  It helps that I'm a physicist.

From _WHAT_ school and _WHEN_ did you graduate?

Obviously while studying physics you failed to learn to read
with attention to detail.  The "arrogant little lecture" is a
quote from:

        `Fusion Without Ex-Lax' first published in `GALAXY'
         October 1976 (C)opyright by UPD Publishing Corporation
         Inc. and reprinted in `A STEP FARTHER OUT' (C)opyright
         1979 by Jerry Pournelle, Ph.D..

and is the opinion of Dr. Pournelle; though I wholeheartedly
agree .  The thrust of the "lecture" probably drove a little too
close to your position as an _intellectual_, pinking your
self-esteem, and thus drawing your ire.

My comments were:

BC>This was written in 1976, and is still true today.  How's that
BC>for a half life?  I implore all readers following this thread,
BC>and all resultant threads, PLEASE read `A STEP FARTHER OUT'
BC>and add it to your Pro-Nuclear Arsenal!

your lack of differentiation between my writing and that of the
good doctor is a highly appreciated, if unintended, compliment.
It's not often that I'm told that my writing is as good as that
of Jerry Pournelle.  Thank you.

It would be a good idea to read 'A STEP FARTHER OUT'.  Unless, of
course, you are an _illiterate physicist_.  In that case;  Dr.
Pournelle's comments on the sad state of education in the United
States of America are addressed to you.

I will leave you with this thought.  Prior to the plastics
industry there was petroleum waste ...

--RWC

Ú-> biographical data <ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ¬

¦ R.William Clements : Born 27 Feb 1948 in Sebring Florida USA ¦
¦ Online Since 1988 : Reading Science Fiction Since 1956       ¦
¦ Good Science Fiction is hard enough to slice diamond!  --RWC ¦
ÀÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÙ

 * SLMR 2.1a * E-Mail  Bill.Clements@18-230.Genesplicer.Org

--- FLAME v1.1
 * Origin: ANCESTRY TBBS Shadows of forgotten ancestors 941-382-9061 (1:18/230)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 269 of 285
 From : Bill Clements                       1:18/230        .ÿò 02 .åâ 96 15:43
 To   : Ecarey
 Subj : COPYRIGHT
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
EC>Um, Bill, did you have Dr. Pournelle's permision to reprint
EC>this _here_, on an international computer network?  If not,
EC>your great respect for him has led you to violate his
EC>copyright.

I quoted briefly from 'A STEP FARTHER OUT' for the purpose of
editorial review.  That shouldn't violate his copyright, which I
acknowleged, and may cause a demand for a book that I fear has
long been out of print.

If you can lay hands on a copy I highly recomend it as an
interesting read.  It is as, if not more, topical now as it was
when it was first published in 1979.

Your concern is noted.  Thank you.

--RWC

 * SLMR 2.1a * E-Mail  Bill.Clements@18-230.Genesplicer.Org

--- FLAME v1.1
 * Origin: ANCESTRY TBBS Shadows of forgotten ancestors 941-382-9061 (1:18/230)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 270 of 285
 From : Bill Clements                       1:18/230        .ÿò 02 .åâ 96 17:32
 To   : J.t. Smith
 Subj : CONTACT
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
JS>Contact has been made.
JS> BC> `Fusion Without Ex-Lax' first published in `GALAXY'
JS> BC> October 1976 (C)opyright by UPD Publishing Corporation
JS> BC>  Inc. and reprinted in `A STEP FARTHER OUT' (C)opyright
JS> BC> 1979 by Jerry Pournelle, Ph.D..  This was written in
JS> BC> 1976, and is still true today.  How's that for a half
JS> BC> life?  I implore all readers following this thread, and
JS> BC> all resultant threads, PLEASE read `A STEP FARTHER OUT'
JS> BC> and add it to your Pro-Nuclear Arsenal!

JS> Nah.

Obviously contact has _NOT_ been made!

 * SLMR 2.1a * E-Mail  Bill.Clements@18-230.Genesplicer.Org

--- FLAME v1.1
 * Origin: ANCESTRY TBBS Shadows of forgotten ancestors 941-382-9061 (1:18/230)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 271 of 285
 From : Chris Baugh                         1:105/290.5     .ÿò 02 .åâ 96 19:56
 To   : Todd Sullivan
 Subj : weird tv
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 CB> Would you include weird comedy?

 TS> Can't say. The shows you mentioned are comedy to begin with,
 TS> just taken to extremes. Python might qualify by its premise,
 TS> but just barely.

So you're looking for just plain weird shows, presented in a serious
manner, apparently without irony?

--- PPoint 1.98
 * Origin: - (1:105/290.5)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 272 of 285
 From : Chris Baugh                         1:105/290.5     .óá 03 .åâ 96 16:40
 To   : Owen E. Oulton
 Subj : syzygy
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 OE> Actually, you want the astronomical/astrological definition.
 OE> A syzygy is when two or more planets visually appear to line
 OE> up, which is the conjunction the astrologer was talking
 OE> about.

So what's the difference between a syzygy and an ordinary
conjunction, when the two planets are within about 5 degrees of each
other?

--- PPoint 1.98
 * Origin: - (1:105/290.5)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 273 of 285
 From : Frank Glover                        1:2613/477      .óá 03 .åâ 96 22:07
 To   : Mark Jones
 Subj : Re: Alien threats?
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

MJ>     Many, many animal species are stronger than we are.
MJ>     Many, many animal species are faster than we are.
MJ>     Many, many animal species have sharper senses than we have.
MJ>     But WE are the champions in the survival lottery so far, Chris.
MJ>  The lions and tigers and bears (oh my!) survive at our sufferance.

  Absolutely correct so far....

MJ>     You say "we are weak" without any justification.  Weak--compared
MJ>  to
MJ>  whom?  And how do you *know* unless you've had contact with these
MJ>  allegedly superior invaders?

   But against terrestrial life forms, we have intelligence and technology on
our side. (Even if dolphins are sentient, they live in an environment, with body
forms that don't lend themselves to making technology.)

   But extraterrestrials who can come here, by definition are at least as
intelligent as us, with technology superior to ours, since we are presently
incapable of interstellar flight. There may be borderline cases like that in
`Footfall' where we have a chance (and a little luck), but otherwise we would
clearly survive at *their* sufferance.

  If they should happen to believe in the Hicks/Ripley philosophy ("Nuke em'
from orbit. It's the only way to be sure."), then we're done. And indeed, even
when we *do* gain a major interstellar travel capability (and all the tech it
implies), there's always a possibility of running into someone who will outclass
us. It's just that right now, we're dog meat for anyone capable of coming here,
if it came to that.

   Frank


--- QuickBBS 2.80 GoldBase (Zeta-1)
 * Origin: The Matrix Data Bank BBS, Rochester, Ny (1:2613/477)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 274 of 285
 From : Kay Shapero                         1:102/524       .óá 03 .åâ 96 11:35
 To   : Chris Ogniben
 Subj : Cybersex
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Feb 01 11:36>, Chris Ogniben (1:2604/568) wrote to Mark Jones:

 CO>
 CO>   You people are sick, morons that don't have a life to be
 CO>talking this crap in here.  This is the science fiction conference, and
CO>not the cybersex conference,

Currently the only *real* cybersex IS science fiction - folks in cyberpunk
stories may be able to hook themselves up to a computer and experience full
sensory sexual interactions, but as things are now the most they can do is talk
about it. (Well, I suppose one could type one handed...)

Just out of curiosity, though, why are you trying to start flamewars?  Of the
five or so messages of your I've seen in this packet, most contain insults (and
at least one isn't even vaguely on topic.)

--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 275 of 285
 From : Kay Shapero                         1:102/524       .óá 03 .åâ 96 11:35
 To   : The Raven
 Subj : Adding to the List
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Feb 01 00:28>, The Raven (1:363/309) wrote to Kay Shapiro:

 CC> *plonk*  (For those who just joined our program, "plonk" is the
 CC> sound of someone hitting a killfile or twit filter.)

 TR>     This one deserves to be added to the list, don'tcha thinks?

Will do.

--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 276 of 285
 From : Elizabeth H. Penrose                1:129/26        .óá 03 .åâ 96 17:19
 To   : Otto Cordray
 Subj : Monty Python is Wierd
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
There was a sinister undertow to many of their sketches which I quite liked, if
this isn't paradoxical.  The milkman/psychiatrist sketch is quite unsettling, as
is "How not to be seen".  The first is paranoid, the second almost promotes
catatonic retreat.  The "genius part" is that they are both hilarious.

--- Maximus 3.01
 * Origin: SoundingBoard, Pittsburgh PA (1:129/26)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 277 of 285
 From : Elizabeth H. Penrose                1:129/26        .óá 03 .åâ 96 17:25
 To   : Emilio Ares
 Subj : Re: The Veldt
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Could you see any relationship between the screen adaptation and Jumanji?  (I
haven't seen The Illustrated Man, though I read the script of the adaptation.)

--- Maximus 3.01
 * Origin: SoundingBoard, Pittsburgh PA (1:129/26)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 278 of 285
 From : Jerry Van Kooten                    2:280/901.37    .pä 31 .íâ 96 23:40
 To   : Otto Cordray
 Subj : The Guide and it's Incarnations...
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Hi Otto,

 OC> 'Infocom' jogged my memory a bit. When the NPR station at Texas A&M
 OC> played the
 OC> radio eps. back in '87, I believe one of the "sponsors" was
 OC> Infocom:specifically plugging the game; I think Zork got a mention, too.
 OC> However, I've never played  the game.

You got an e-mail address? I could ARJ or ZIP the files and send them
to you.

See you,
Jerry <jvkooten@pi.net>

--- Terminate 3.00/Pro
 * Origin: I'm only kidding. We're going to die after all. -- FP (2:280/901.37)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 279 of 285
 From : Kim Wheat                           1:271/285       .ÿò 02 .åâ 96 16:00
 To   : Chris Ogniben
 Subj : Star Trek
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
---<<*<<< Chris dazzled Buc Wheat with these words of wisdom!! >>>**>>----

 CO> True, it's just a tv show, and not reality.  I know that.  And your
 CO> right, but there is a few people that can get on your nerves and you
 CO> need to say something.  But, perhaps i could do a little more thinking
 CO> before i explode onto another person.  But, that happens rarely.
 CO> Anyways, your right upon everything you said, and i will remember it
 CO> next time when i talk to someone about a topic.

 Hi Chris,
   You're talking to the 'expert' in foot-in-mouth disease-ism!! :>
 But as a famous person once sprouted, "It takes a great man to admit
 he overstepped his lip!" <lol>

   Enjoy yourself, Chris!!

 Kim :)


--- GEcho 1.00
 * Origin: From Trekkies & from B5ers who hate Trek save us! (1:271/285.0)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 280 of 285
 From : Phill Ash                           1:275/160       .óá 03 .åâ 96 08:30
 To   : Robert Lidgren
 Subj : STAR TREK SEXISM
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE 1.11+

 -> yes... alot of people (especially women) would like to change centuries of
 -> evolution in just a few decades, but it's not so easy.  my personal work as
 -> a tatoo artist has proven to me that the female sex is striving to the
 -> extreme to become male.  sometimes i laugh... but i always give them their
 -> tat's.  i


 RL> 1.  How on earth does getting a tatoo in ANY WAY imply women want to
 RL>    be men?

        That's not what he said.

 RL> 2.  If you have evidence or a "gut feeling" for this do share
 RL>    your thoughts.

        It could be a reflections of the attitudes expressed by those
        (male & female) that he has tattooed.

 RL> 5.  Yes, women want legal equality and political equality.  They want
 RL>    equal pay for equal work.  They want to be respected just like men
 RL>    want to be respected.
 RL> 6.  They want to have career opportunities open to them.

        You're generalizing.  I've met several "wimmin" who long for a
        complete reversal of 1960's roles.

 RL> 9.  In traditional times men brought up their sons in the ethnic
 RL>    and cultural traditions of their society.  I wonder why men have
 RL>    often reneged on this responsibility.  However, I don't believe
 RL>    that women's emancipatiuon caused all of this in any way.

        Bull.  As recently as the 1960's, children of either sex were
        primarily reared by "stay at home" mothers who, generally, had
        been reared to be (and do) exactly that.  Since the so-called
        Sexual Revolution, "Liberated" women sought employment outside
        of the home.

        While some of these women left the work-force temporarily (or
        permanently) to have children, some chose to continue working.
        Recent studies have shown that women who have continued working
        earn the same pay (or better) as compared to that of their male
        counterparts.

        Meanwhile, 2-income families became the "elite" and in the Great
        American Spirit of "Keeping Up With the Joneses", a family
        eventually required 2 incomes in order to maintain the status of
        "middle class".

        This led to the rise of non-familial child-care which now
        pervades our society.  Children are being forced to interact
        socially with children of various race, religion and national
        origin; thus causing confusion with regards to social mores and
        ethics.

        Without a father-figure, youths of the 70's and 80's became
        teens of the 80's and 90's who, in some instances, actually
        believe that it's alright to impregnate a woman and never
        interact with her again.  These "hit & runs" are founded in a
        belief that a father is not necessary because "I turned out ok
        without a father".

        Thsi is probably one of the primary reasons Roddenberry chose
        to have families aboard the Enterprise-D.  As Crusher avers in
        "When the Bough Breaks", human are at their fiercest when their
        children are threatened.  Or so we hope for the Future.

 RL> Like it or not, welcome to the new reality - but it ain't
 RL> true that most women want to be men INMHO!

        Let us hope. <G>


Your pal:  PhlAsh
---
 þ Ùystertags v1.1 þ I can't see no reason to put up a fight
~~~ ReneWave v1.01 [NR]
--- Smile :)
 * Origin: * The Beast's Lair * (804)498-3070 * Va Beach VA * (1:275/160)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 281 of 285
 From : Brion Lienhart                      1:213/700.2     .óá 03 .åâ 96 09:10
 To   : Otto Cordray
 Subj : Not Darth
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On Thu Feb 01, Otto Cordray said to Frank Glover:

 FG>    So if anyone does show up, hope it's Michael Renne,
 FG>    and not Darth Vader

 -OC>...or the Vogons :).

Gort, Vader barada nikto.
8-(;-)


--- QM v1.31
 * Origin: Ministry of Peace - Carson City, NV (1:213/700.2)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 282 of 285
 From : Todd Sullivan                       1:202/720.3     .ÿò 02 .åâ 96 17:02
 To   : Nicolai Shapero
 Subj : Meek/weaklings
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
While substituting for Q, Nicolai Shapero took extreme delight in saying to me,
"You'll do anything I say?"  I quailed when the words "BS!!" were uttered.

 NS> Re humans being such weaklings:
 NS> "The meek shall inherit the Earth.  The rest of us are going to the
 NS> stars!"

I prefer the one Heinlein posited through Lazarus in /Number/ /of/ /the/
/Beast/: "The meek shall inherit the earth, in lots three by six feet."

If we don't go to the stars, that's how it's likely to be, and I need more space
than that.

Todd Sullivan

... "I won't be 400 for another four months." --Duncan MacLeod

-*- ASTG 1.9

--- Spot 1.3a Unregistered
 * Origin: Todd's Spot in the Continuum (1:202/720.3)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 283 of 285
 From : Todd Sullivan                       1:202/720.3     .ÿò 02 .åâ 96 17:05
 To   : Chip Griffin
 Subj : Electricity
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
While substituting for Q, Chip Griffin took extreme delight in saying to Nicolai
Shapero, "You'll do anything I say?"  Nicolai quailed when the words "nuclear"
were uttered.

 NS>> power transmission through conventional power grids too...

 CG> Yes, I know that.  I-squared R losses ... I know them well ... I once
 CG> worked and trained as an electrician ...

Tally ho, Sparky. :^)

Todd Sullivan, fmr EM3, USS Saratoga

... Creationist's Law:  You only lose arguments to liberal fascists.

-*- ASTG 1.9

--- Spot 1.3a Unregistered
 * Origin: Todd's Spot in the Continuum (1:202/720.3)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 284 of 285
 From : Todd Sullivan                       1:202/720.3     .ÿò 02 .åâ 96 17:12
 To   : Chris Ogniben
 Subj : BS!!
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
While substituting for Q, Chris Ogniben took extreme delight in saying to me,
"You'll do anything I say?"  I quailed when the words "BS!!" were uttered.

 CO>
 CO>    Dude, you are a big loser.  Because, you think that having a
 CO> backbone is going to change anything.  Let me give you a little tip,
 CO> when you got a race of lifeforms trying to take over your planet.  and
 CO> they have the ability to slice through your body and your strong
 CO> backbone as you put it.  That you are gonna die like a wimp.  Since

You remind me of most Christians; proving an incorrect postulate through
circular logic.

As for fighting, if you can't talk, you hit.  Perfect way of proving your point,
if it has to do with strength alone.  What makes you think I'm stupid enough to
just sit still and take something I can avoid, or not take your sorry @$$ out at
100 yards?  Besides, you postulated an unfair fight; what makes you think *any*
fight is fair?  It's not, and you'd do well th remember that when you threaten
anyone.  Talk to a Marine that way--to his face--and he'll wipe the floor with
you without thinking about it.

Your idea that we're even worth bothering with to an interstellar empire is
ludicrous; we're barely worth noticing, provided we don't blow ourselves up in
the next decade or two.

Get real!

Todd Sullivan

... "The cost of liberty is less than the price of repression."
     --William Du Bois

-*- ASTG 1.9

--- Spot 1.3a Unregistered
 * Origin: Todd's Spot in the Continuum (1:202/720.3)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 285 of 285
 From : Jeff Hancock                        1:3600/7        .ÿò 02 .åâ 96 23:07
 To   : Robert Siemborski
 Subj : Babylon 5
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

RS>>The line was given away in the B5 magazine.
RS>These things exist? GIMMIE GIMMIE GIMMIE GIMMIE! ;-)

Yes, the much rumored B5 magazine does indeed exist. However, the store
here only had one copy and it's mine. ;)

Look around. You may have to do a lot of looking, especially now, but
maybe it's still around.

-=-
 * Crazy-J * RL=Vcc2/2PO, and this little piggy hit the ionosphere....

--- SLMAIL v3.5C  (#1540)
 * Origin: Robotech þ Lake City's Music*Demo BBS þ [904] 758*9477 (1:3600/7)

Ä [27] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 1 of 106
 From : Frank Swarbrick                     1:104/825       .îí 05 .åâ 96 23:56
 To   : Chris Baugh
 Subj : weird tv
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12  92-0022
On 02-02-96  19:56 my Very Good Friend Chris Baugh said:

 CB> Would you include weird comedy?

 TS> Can't say. The shows you mentioned are comedy to begin with,
 TS> just taken to extremes. Python might qualify by its premise,
 TS> but just barely.

 CB> So you're looking for just plain weird shows, presented in a serious
 CB> manner, apparently without irony?

Well...I was the one who started it, so I'll answer.  I don't say they
have to be absoluely serious and without irony, but I was definately
not looking for comedy shows.  Sorry...

        Frank

... No one can hear when you're Screaming in Digital!
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12
 * Origin: The Bailey Information Exchange BBS, 28.8k v.fc  (1:104/825.0)

Ä [27] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 2 of 106
 From : Todd Sullivan                       1:202/720.3     .îí 05 .åâ 96 20:45
 To   : Chris Ogniben
 Subj : Star Wars Novelizations
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
While substituting for Q, Chris Ogniben took extreme delight in saying to David
Little, "You'll do anything I say?"  David quailed when the words "Star Wars
Novelizations" were uttered.

 CO>
 CO>    As far as i know about Star Wars.  I don't understand how it could
 CO> have survived, ever since the three movies that started the star wars
 CO> craze got me and many others to enjoy it.  I mean, at least they could
 CO> have done was run a television series to keep star wars alive, till the

That was tried with Logan's Run.  Lasted all of 1, maybe 2 seasons. Abyssmal
flop.

Todd Sullivan

... "Everything is funny as long as it is happening to somebody else."
     --Will Rogers

-*- ASTG 1.9

--- Spot 1.3a Unregistered
 * Origin: Todd's Spot in the Continuum (1:202/720.3)

Ä [27] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 3 of 106
 From : Chris Ogniben                       1:2604/568      .îí 05 .åâ 96 12:53
 To   : Frank Swarbrick
 Subj : X-FILES
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

   This is ragarding the episode of x-files about Skully and her snotty
attitude.  Now, i don't remember if she had the snotty attitude back
with them Cockraches.  So, now the only thing i have to say here, is
that i just don't know why she had a snotty attitude against Mulder,
but, i do know that he was really beating him down.  Most used word by
her voice, was WHATEVER.  And i think she did or did care about that
hot girl, who was studing the Cockroaches, and Skully ended up barging
through the door where Mulder was beneath the hot girl.  Who by the way
ended up with that guy on the wheel chair, because of his intelligence,
or mind.  But, unless Skully was under PMS, that i have no idea why she
really beated down on mulder.  Now you said that you knew at a ceratin
point to why she was acting this way, and i just want to know from you,
to exactly how do you figure, so i can understand too why she was
snotty.


--- WM v3.11/93-0947
 * Origin: Waterside BBS - NJ - (201) 641-5375 28.8k  (1:2604/568)

Ä [27] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 4 of 106
 From : Chris Ogniben                       1:2604/568      .îí 05 .åâ 96 12:56
 To   : Chip Griffin
 Subj : Re: nuclear BS
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

   This is about the nuclear world, and the problem with waste
management.  Apparently people need to realize, that when your dealing
with something that is highly radioactive, which could killa man if he
stand near something at a high level of radioactivty through exsposrue
to the radioactive substance.  And the problem that we speak of, is the
waste dispoal people.  And how they get rid of the waste.  And i feel
that Greenpeace, or whatever EPA that is involved are doing a good job,
to make sure that the dumping is under the guidlines or the laws.  So,
the basic enviroment is not affected.  I mean, we all know that is some
guy dumps radio active material at a playground where kids play, that
they are all going to die of exspoure to the waste.  So, this just
brings up another discussion.  And that is, when we look at Nuclear
power, yes, perhaps it is safe to use to generate tons of power,
without clouding up our skies.  Causing that global warming effect, or
greenhouse.  But, i can tell you one thing, it comes to nuclear power,
i would think that, suffering from the green house effect is better off
than to be exsposed to radioactive material.  Thus meaning get rid of
nuclear power, and stick with the stuff we got.


--- WM v3.11/93-0947
 * Origin: Waterside BBS - NJ - (201) 641-5375 28.8k  (1:2604/568)

Ä [27] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 5 of 106
 From : Chris Ogniben                       1:2604/568      .îí 05 .åâ 96 12:59
 To   : Chip Griffin
 Subj : Re: nuclear BS
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

   Anyone using a Apple computer, is a moron.  Is a person that lacks
the intelligence that he apple computer industry has basically failed
in it's quest to develop a computer that really makes a statement, and
pulls ahead of the race, of Apple, Ibm and Compatiable computers.  It
was great to be involved with computers back in the days, where
computers were all an idea that really was cool, and as we got older
and the technology got better and faster, that you can see, that apple
is falling behind.  Now, i only feel that if a person that buys a apple
computer, has made a good choice, only because it supports apples
future, but, unless apple get's their act together and catch up to ther
race of ibm and compatables and the world of the internet, that they
and the people that use them have made a low intelligent decision to
buy one.


--- WM v3.11/93-0947
 * Origin: Waterside BBS - NJ - (201) 641-5375 28.8k  (1:2604/568)

Ä [27] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 6 of 106
 From : Chris Ogniben                       1:2604/568      .îí 05 .åâ 96 13:01
 To   : Frank Glover
 Subj : Re: Star Trek
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

   Are you stupid or something?  It's pretty obvious that you don't
realize that Data could be a historical event in Voyager's computers,
where B'
ellanna could access it, since she is very into tech.  Or because she
met Data, or because she just knew about him as like everyone else
does.  So, you probably are to stupid to realize that.


--- WM v3.11/93-0947
 * Origin: Waterside BBS - NJ - (201) 641-5375 28.8k  (1:2604/568)

Ä [27] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 7 of 106
 From : Paul Manson                         1:229/15        .òp 06 .åâ 96 09:32
 To   : All
 Subj : OLD FASHIONED BBS IN TORO
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
I apologise for the overlap and the off-topic nature of this
message but it is necessary.

CRS, the old behemoth in Toronto, was swallowed up by "Istar".

As as result, access to the following Nets will disappear on March 31,
1995. I REQUIRE access (reasonable rate) to a Toronto BBS with access
to:

North America Net (NANET)
Relay Net (RIME)
FidoNet (FIDO)
ILINK
EchoNet
Global Link

Can anyone recommend a good board?

Thanks

Paul


Live Long and Prosper, Peace and Long Life

Paul S. Manson Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Internet: pmanson@inforamp.net

EchoVOY:TheI'mNotJustADoctorZimmermanResponseProgramTerminator.
---
 * 1st 2.00 #815 * Somewhere along this journey, we'll find a way back -Janeway

--- QScan/PCB v1.17b / 01-0348
 * Origin: FidoNet: CRS Online, Toronto, Ontario (1:229/15)

Ä [27] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 8 of 106
 From : Brion Lienhart                      1:213/700.2     .òp 06 .åâ 96 16:25
 To   : All
 Subj : Gulliver's Travels
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
OK, so who else watched this? I liked it a lot. At first the "at home" scenes
got in the way, but they seemed to fit in better in the second half. It must
have been way too long since I last read it (ok, nearly 20 years), but I
couldn't remember any of the stuff between him leaving the island of Laputa and
landing in the land of the Wymnynmnynns (sp?).



--- QM v1.31
 * Origin: Ministry of Peace - Carson City, NV (1:213/700.2)

Ä [27] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 9 of 106
 From : The Raven                           1:363/309       .îí 05 .åâ 96 12:05
 To   : Mark Jones
 Subj : Bred to Conquer
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 CO> And an alien race that is bred to conqure or has evolved to take over
 CO> planets that have weakling life forms.  That we are a prime canditate to
 CO> be taken over easily.

     Did anyone else think that the "bred to conquer" statement fit our own
species?  We are undoubtably one of the most adaptable species on the planet,
capable of living anywhere and kicking the teetotal crap out of any kind
of competition we find there.  That sounds like "bred to conquer" to me.


 MJ> You say "we are weak" without any justification.  Weak--compared to
 MJ> whom?  And how do you *know* unless you've had contact with these
 MJ> allegedly superior invaders?

     Ever read Alan Dean Foster's series, "The Damned"?  Good books, all
based on the premise that humans are *the* ultimate dispensers of whup-ass
in the Galaxy.

     Jack Butler



... "A man isn't poor if he can still laugh." Ä Raymond Hitchcock
--- Blue Wave/DOS v2.20 [NR]
 * Origin: Forethought BBS -=- Orlando, FL -=- 407-679-6561 (1:363/309)

Ä [27] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 10 of 106
 From : Chris Carter                        1:105/290.23    .òp 06 .åâ 96 05:53
 To   : James Walton
 Subj : Star Wars Novelizations
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On (05 Feb 96) James Walton wrote to Chris Carter...

 JW> Thank you Mr. Carter, for backing me up on this one.

It is an honor to serve.

So you have a 1st ed., huh?  I'd love to have a look at it.  Of course,
you'll want to put it under a salad bar sneezeguard so as to keep the
drool off of it. :)

Chris - carter@teleport.com


... "A man's character is his fate." -- Heraclitus

--- PPoint 2.00
 * Origin: Grid Epsilon Coords. 105x290x23 (1:105/290.23)

Ä [27] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 11 of 106
 From : Chris Carter                        1:105/290.23    .òp 06 .åâ 96 05:55
 To   : Don Dellmann
 Subj : Books
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On (05 Feb 96) Don Dellmann wrote to Mark Jones...

 DD> I don't bother with the blurb.  I open the book at random, read
 DD> one page. If I want to turn the page, I buy the book.

That's a curious strategy.  Mind if I borrow it?

Chris - carter@teleport.com


... Illudium Phosdex - the Shaving Cream Atom

--- PPoint 2.00
 * Origin: Grid Epsilon Coords. 105x290x23 (1:105/290.23)

Ä [27] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 12 of 106
 From : Chris Baugh                         1:105/290.5     .òp 06 .åâ 96 18:36
 To   : Todd Sullivan
 Subj : syzygy
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 TS> A syzygy is...

Thanks.

--- PPoint 1.98
 * Origin: - (1:105/290.5)

Ä [27] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 13 of 106
 From : Frank Glover                        1:2613/477      .òp 06 .åâ 96 21:40
 To   : Chris Ogniben
 Subj : UFO
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

CO>    I still think that you people, are morons to think that UFO's are
CO>  real.  I mean, people  and the human race, can take drugs or drink
CO>  beer, or just be tired or something, and see stupid lights in the
CO>  sky.
CO>  And they right away thithink that they are being invaded, you people
CO>  need to get your face out of your asses, and wake up to reality and
CO>  know that UFO's are not real.

   Hey, be nice! Neither I, nor anyone else said an alien invasion was iminent,
merely that the fact that they can cross interstellar space to get here means a
technology superior to ours, which strongly implies a superior fighting
capability, *if* they are so inclined.

   UFO's are marginally relevant to the matter. They *are* real, but they are
*not necessiarily* alien spacecraft. Most will certainly be real but
misinterpreted normal phenomena. If none of them are of extraterrestrial origin,
it still doesn't change the prospect of ET's of some sort, benign or hostile,
arriving anytime between tomorrow morning and never. That covers a lot of
possibilites, but we just don't know enough to narrow it down much more.

  And I'll put my face where I darn well please, thank you.

  Frank


--- QuickBBS 2.80 GoldBase (Zeta-1)
 * Origin: The Matrix Data Bank BBS, Rochester, Ny (1:2613/477)

Ä [27] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 14 of 106
 From : Frank Glover                        1:2613/477      .òp 06 .åâ 96 21:53
 To   : Chris Ogniben
 Subj : Re: Human nature?
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

   (Very depressing [though with an element of truth] summation of the worst in
human behavior mostly deleted)

CO>  since
CO>  them laws and people that do care of the future are just not going to
CO>  do enough to save the destruction of this planet.

   How do you get out of bed in the morning?

   There's always hope. (One of the things the SF genre shows is that even in
unplesant futures, humans can overcome adversity...and themselves. This was
certainly part ov Gene Roddenberry's vision. Even in the "Genesis 2" concept
[which never got beyond a pilot film], he wanted to show that there was hope for
humankind, even in a post-nuclear world...)

   We seem farther from pushing "the button" now than any time since nuke
weapons were made. If you could remember timeslike the Cuban Missile Crisis (I
was only eignt, but had a pretty good idea of what was happening, andwhat
*could* happen.) you'd consider the current situation *very* hopeful....

  Frank


--- QuickBBS 2.80 GoldBase (Zeta-1)
 * Origin: The Matrix Data Bank BBS, Rochester, Ny (1:2613/477)

Ä [27] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 15 of 106
 From : Frank Glover                        1:2613/477      .òp 06 .åâ 96 21:56
 To   : Chris Ogniben
 Subj : Re: Star Trek Generations
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

CO>  it
CO>  seemed as if the enterprise did go through a bit of refit, since a
CO>  lot
CO>  of things looked different.  I don't know if it was the holodeck that
CO>  Data and Picard were in to view the star maps.  But, i thought it was
CO>  a
CO>  different room on board the enterprise to view all the stars and
CO>  solar
CO>  systems that exist out there to track that nexus thing.  But, anyways

   The Stellar Cartography room is a set built for the movie, but I think we can
consider it to simply be apart of the ship we haven't seen before.

   I think wecan assumethere will be an Enterprise-E...one wonders what it will
look like?

   Frank


--- QuickBBS 2.80 GoldBase (Zeta-1)
 * Origin: The Matrix Data Bank BBS, Rochester, Ny (1:2613/477)

Ä [27] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 16 of 106
 From : David Little                        1:106/7315      .îí 05 .åâ 96 10:27
 To   : Chris Ogniben
 Subj : Star Wars Novelizations
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
-=< Chris used the Jedi Mind Trick on me! >=-

 CO> As far as i know about Star Wars.  I don't understand how it could
 CO> have survived, ever since the three movies that started the star wars
 CO> craze got me and many others to enjoy it.

        Cause it's a classic story. A young hero grows up and learns his true
self. A rogue listens to his heart and joins the cause. The black knight
betrays his king to save his son. It's a story that will never die!

 CO> I mean, at least they could
 CO> have done was run a television series to keep star wars alive, till
 CO> the new movies.

        NO!! Looks whats going on with Star Trek now!

 CO> I hate the idea, that i have to turn on my stinking
 CO> tv, and watch those same three movies again and again.

        Go get the THX remastered trilogy letterboxed...you won't be
complaining then!

 CO> And the funny
 CO> part is that, since it's sci fi, that it seems to not look like the
 CO> eighties at all.  But, you can tell with the hair cuts and crap.

        Yeah, Lando was REAL fashionable!!

 CO> But,
 CO> i understand that reading the books is a good idea, to keep the star
 CO> wars adeventures rolling along, but, those books are totally full of
 CO> it. Since who's to know if they are ever going to use what you read in
 CO> the next few movies.  I mean unless you know that the book is actually
 CO> going to follow star wars events that then i would read it, but, if
 CO> it's just so you can read something and say oh wow, though it was just
 CO> from the mind of the writer and not the person that created the show,
 CO> that i wouldn't bother reading it, since it doesn't have any relation
 CO> to what really happens in star wars.

        Think of them as officially published fan fiction!

                                        -=The DoLittle 8-)=-


... "It's totally bogus." - Wakko

--- FreeMail & Blue Wave/DOS v2.21
 * Origin: The Wizard's Realm ** (713) 946-7315 ** (1:106/7315)

Ä [27] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 17 of 106
 From : Nicolai Shapero                     1:102/524       .òp 06 .åâ 96 07:08
 To   : Chris Ogniben
 Subj : Space: Above & Beyond Epi
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Feb 03 14:44>, Chris Ogniben (1:2604/568) wrote to Rudy Hardy:

 CO>episode run off, since you probably are just a pathetic fool that
 CO>got
 CO>his years mixed up.

Chris, if this doesn't stop quite soon, I am going to pull the plug on your
access to this conference.

Do I make myself perfectly clear?

-- Nicolai Shapero, Moderator of the SFFAN echo

--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [27] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 18 of 106
 From : Nicolai Shapero                     1:102/524       .òp 06 .åâ 96 07:09
 To   : Chris Ogniben
 Subj : UFO
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Feb 03 14:45>, Chris Ogniben (1:2604/568) wrote to Chris Baugh:

 CO>  I still think that you people, are morons to think that UFO's
 CO>are
 CO>real.  I mean, people  and the human race, can take drugs or

AHEM!

If you can't be nice, I will make sure that you can't post or read this
conference.

-- Nicolai Shapero, Moderator of the SFFAN echo

--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [27] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 19 of 106
 From : Kay Shapero                         1:102/524       .òp 06 .åâ 96 09:59
 To   : Chris Ogniben
 Subj : Re: Babylon 5's sex scene
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Feb 03 14:39>, Chris Ogniben (1:2604/568) wrote to Channon Lang:

 CO>
 CO>    Hey if there is a new episode tomorrow night for Babylon 5. I
 CO>like for someone to inform me, like give me a little info, as to what

There was a new episode last week.  There is another new episode this week.
There will also be a new episode next week, and the week after.  You may want to
subscribe to the BABYLON 5 echo, since there are periodic announcements of what
comes up next.  In general, assume 4-5 new episodes, followed by 4 or so reruns,
followed by 4-5 more.

We pause for a brief rummage through the files...  Here's the most recent list
of new episodes to appear before old ones turn up again.  If you missed last
week's, you've missed the first (pity - it ranges from the alarming to the
hilarous; frequently simultaneously!  Try and catch it in the subsequent
reruns.)

Voices of Authority
Dust to Dust
Exogenesis
Messages From Earth
Point Of No Return

... Quick, Garibaldi - the Flit!

--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [27] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 20 of 106
 From : Kay Shapero                         1:102/524       .òp 06 .åâ 96 10:12
 To   : David Johnston
 Subj : Dangerous Babes
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Feb 04 00:29>, David Johnston (1:342/14) wrote to Chris Ogniben:

 DJ>Yes, she does.  For the same reason all grim and brooding
 DJ>characters need a sidekick.  Not for the help they give, but because
 DJ>otherwise you might go through entire episodes without the character
 DJ>saying a word, or just about.

And of course sidekicks are invaluable as people to explain things to that the
hero knows, but the audience doesn't.


... "I'm a comedy sidekick!  It's not going to work!"

--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [27] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 21 of 106
 From : Kay Shapero                         1:102/524       .òp 06 .åâ 96 10:12
 To   : Don Dellmann
 Subj : Books
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Feb 05 06:01>, Don Dellmann (1:154/40) wrote to Mark Jones:

 DD>I don't bother with the blurb.  I open the book at random, read
 DD>one page. If I want to turn the page, I buy the book.

I've tried that with mixed results - I can think of two books I carefully
avoided because I picked them up, opened them at random, and found a scene
wherein the protagonist commits a major atrocity.  I do wish however there had
been some other way to find out about the major atrocity without reading it...
:(

(Oddly enough, despite the fact that it's hard to find a section where a
protagonist *doesn't* commit a major atrocity, I actually enjoyed GRUNTS so I
guess it's partly the difference between serious fiction, and sick humor.)


... "Well, it *is* an imperfect universe." -- G'Kar

--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [27] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 22 of 106
 From : Darre LuAllen                       1:3637/1        .pä 07 .åâ 96 10:03
 To   : Todd Sullivan
 Subj : Bs!!
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 On 02-02-96 Todd Sullivan wrote to Chris Ogniben...

 CO>    Dude, you are a big loser.  Because, you think that having a
 CO> backbone is going to change anything.  Let me give you a little tip,
 CO> when you got a race of lifeforms trying to take over your planet. and
 CO> they have the ability to slice through your body and your strong
 CO> backbone as you put it.  That you are gonna die like a wimp.

 TS> As for fighting, if you can't talk, you hit.  Perfect way of proving your
 TS> point, if it has to do with strength alone.  What makes you
 TS> think I'm stupid enough to just sit still and take
 TS> something I can avoid, or not take your sorry @$$ out at
 TS> 100 yards?  Besides, you postulated an unfair fight; what
 TS> makes you think *any* fight is fair?  It's not, and you'd
 TS> do well th remember that when you threaten anyone.  Talk to
 TS> a Marine that way--to his face--and he'll wipe the floor
 TS> with you without thinking about it.

 Depends upon the Marine.  Most would just snipe him at 500 yds and
 be done with it.  I must commend you on your patience.  Personally,
 I would be all over him for such comments (although logically, I know
 that it would accomplish nothing).

 TS> Your idea that we're even worth bothering with to an
 TS> interstellar empire is ludicrous; we're barely worth
 TS> noticing, provided we don't blow ourselves up in the next decade or
 TS> two.
 TS>
 TS> Get real!

 I can think of three reasons, all bad:  1) Cheap (read slave) labor,
 2) free land (like they couldn't find a better planet), and 3) food
 (remember the original "V" TV movies?)

 Sorry for butting in.

                                            Darre LuAllen
                                            White Knight in
                                            Black Cape and Boots
___
 * OFFLINE 1.56 * "That's entertainment." - Vlad the Impaler.

--- Maximus/2 3.01
 * Origin: Cumberland BBS TN 615/526-3347 V34 (1:3637/1)

Ä [27] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 23 of 106
 From : Channon Lang                        1:130/809       .òp 06 .åâ 96 05:41
 To   : Chris Ogniben
 Subj : Re: Babylon 5's sex scene
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE 1.11+
From a dark bottomless pit,Chris Ogniben screamed up to Channon Lang about
Babylon 5's sex scene..

 CO>
 CO> Hey if there is a new episode tomorrow night for Babylon 5. I like
 CO> for someone to inform me, like give me a little info, as to what you
 CO> seen in the preview.  I just missed it, since i am sick and tired of
 CO> waiting for new episodes.  Just pearing on upn 9, at 8 pm to just
 CO> check and see if it is a new episode, if not i move onto something
 CO> else.

 Well, I'm sorry I didn't get this message in time to tell you about the
 new episode...it was last night. Kinda really interesting....Meeting new
 peoples...and possible a new reoccuring character (personally I hope she
 doesn't...one of those real annoying types).

 We've had problems with our bbs the last few days...hubby tried to upgrade
 and the new program hates us or something. I'm sorry it took so long to get
 to you.

 Channon



... Oh Chef of the Future, can it core a apple?
--- MachoEcho 0.5ñ
 * Origin: The State of Confusion * Arlington Tx * 817-274-1920 * (1:130/809)

Ä [27] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 24 of 106
 From : Channon Lang                        1:130/809       .òp 06 .åâ 96 05:41
 To   : Kim Wheat
 Subj : Re: Star Trek
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE 1.11+
From a dark bottomless pit,Kim Wheat screamed up to Chris Ogniben about Star
Trek..

 KW> Hi Chris,
 KW> You're talking to the 'expert' in foot-in-mouth disease-ism!! :>
 KW> But as a famous person once sprouted, "It takes a great man to admit
 KW> he overstepped his lip!" <lol>

 KW> Enjoy yourself, Chris!!

 KW> Kim :)

 Hi Kim!!! I didn't realize you were in this echo too!! Nice to see a familiar
 name!!! I think Chris has already swallowed his foot...there's not much
 we can do about him...


 Now, back on topic....Whatd'ya think of B5 last night??? Did you watch
 VOYAGER--the new one, that is...?

 Channon
... Tell me, do YOU know where your towel is???
--- MachoEcho 0.5ñ
 * Origin: The State of Confusion * Arlington Tx * 817-274-1920 * (1:130/809)

Ä [27] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 25 of 106
 From : Channon Lang                        1:130/809       .pä 07 .åâ 96 19:17
 To   : Elizabeth H. Penrose
 Subj : Re: The Guide and it's Incarnations...
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE 1.11+
From a dark bottomless pit,Elizabeth H. Penrose screamed up to Otto Cordray
about The Guide and it's Incarnations.....

 EHP> ("Hey, boast, Woman!")  I have a boxed set of "The Lost Treasures of
 EHP> Infocom," including many Zorks, the circus detective game Ballyhoo,
 EHP> Planetfall and The Hitchhiker's Guide.  Now if I could only set them
 EHP> up   . . .

 Oooooooo!!!!! I've got that one too!!...It's got hints and everything, right?
 I've had lots of fun with it...In fact, I'm sitting here and listening to
 Hitchhiker's Guide---the radio series on tape.

 What kind of problems are you having setting it up?

 Channon



... Tell me, do YOU know where your towel is???
--- MachoEcho 0.5ñ
 * Origin: The State of Confusion * Arlington Tx * 817-274-1920 * (1:130/809)

Ä [27] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 26 of 106
 From : Don Dellmann                        1:154/40        .åò 08 .åâ 96 04:55
 To   : Chris Carter
 Subj : Books
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
While tripping merrily through the mail, Chris Carter was overheard

 DD> I don't bother with the blurb.  I open the book at random, read
 DD> one page. If I want to turn the page, I buy the book.

 CC> That's a curious strategy.  Mind if I borrow it?

Be my guest.

Don
... Gotta run.  My neighbors just sighted Elvis making crop circles.
---
 * Origin: Anonymous BBS -=- Non plus Ultra -=- 414-251-2580 (1:154/40)

Ä [27] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 27 of 106
 From : Ecarey                              1:101/230       .îí 05 .åâ 96 12:42
 To   : Phill Ash
 Subj : STAR TREK SEXISM
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 >RL> 5.  Yes, women want legal equality and political equality.  They want
 >RL>    equal pay for equal work.  They want to be respected just like men
 >RL>    want to be respected.
 >RL> 6.  They want to have career opportunities open to them.
 >
 PA>         You're generalizing.  I've met several "wimmin" who long for
 > a
 >         complete reversal of 1960's roles.

How is this worse than, or even different from, men who want a complete return
to those extremely rigid sex roles?  In either case, we're talking about a
minority, not about the usual views of the average man or woman.

 >RL> 9.  In traditional times men brought up their sons in the ethnic
 >RL>    and cultural traditions of their society.  I wonder why men have
 >RL>    often reneged on this responsibility.  However, I don't believe
 >RL>    that women's emancipatiuon caused all of this in any way.
 >
 >         Bull.  As recently as the 1960's, children of either sex
 > were
 >         primarily reared by "stay at home" mothers who, generally,
 > had
 >         been reared to be (and do) exactly that.  Since the

Well, no. The practice of the women of the working class and middle class
_staying home_ and having no work that contributed _economically_ to the support
of the household was an abberation, a post-war phenomenon that was entirely the
product of the post-war economic boom in the USA. Prior to that, _all_ adults
below the economic upper classes _had_ to contribute economically to the support
of the household.

Women's work tended in most cases to be work that could be done _in_ the home or
very nearby, and the girls and the _young_ boys stayed home where the mother
could supervise them and teach the girls "women's work".

The boys, once past the age of five or so, were expected to start joining the
father at his work, and learn _that_.

The onset of the industrial age changed this only to the extent that somewhat
more women were likely to work outside for part of their adult lives, and sons
had a somewhat greater chance of doing different work than their fathers had.

But the basic social transition of the boys at the proper age passing from
female supervision to male supervision, so that they could learn the role of an
adult male in their society, remained in existence down to the late 1940s, when
the postwar economic boom, for the first time in history, made it possible for
one working adult of the working class to support two adults and all their
children. It's at _that_ point that raising _all_ the children to adulthood
became "women's work", and women, for a _very_ brief period, ceased to do
economically productive work after marriage [or at least, after starting their
families.]

In practice, of course, even in the 1950s, it wasn't quite that neat and
orderly, and there were plenty of families that didn't fit the new stereotype
even then, when the stereotype was at its height and before the recovery of
Europe started to restore the economic realities to something closer to what
they had been throughout history.

Now, people who grew up during and after the fifties, and who have never studied
social & economic history in any depth, think that the abberation of the 1950s
represents "normalcy", and cry out against the reversion to _real_ normalcy,
wherein both parents have to work to produce income for the family, and can't
recognize the _real_ abberation of modern times - that we no longer have social
systems in place to _support_ the necessary fact of two working parents and
their need to provide safely for their children while they work.

--- FLAME v1.0
 * Origin: Withouta Net - Drop In Anytime! - 617/846-5416 (1:101/230)

Ä [27] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 28 of 106
 From : Ecarey                              1:101/230       .îí 05 .åâ 96 12:45
 To   : Frank Swarbrick
 Subj : SPACE: ABOVE & BEYOND EPI
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 >-> Space: Above and Beyond  created by Glen Morgan and James Wong
 >-> But I heard something that the show will be cancelled...
 >SM> Where did you hear this, do you know if it can be stoped.
 >
 FS> Hmm...I, for one, haven't heard anything about it being cancelled.
 > I
 > *do* know that they spend around $2 million per episode, more than
 > even DSN or Voyager.  I don't know if this makes them more or less
 > likely to cancel it...!

It's doing better in the ratings against 60 MINUTES than anything else has ever
done - this is not to say that it's doing _well_ in the ratings, but the fact
that it's even doing _respectably_ against 60 MINUTES is sufficiently
unprecedented that they're very unlikely to cancel it. They're more likely to
move it to a less desperate time slot.

--- FLAME v1.0
 * Origin: Withouta Net - Drop In Anytime! - 617/846-5416 (1:101/230)

Ä [27] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 29 of 106
 From : Christian Raven                     1:393/7         .pä 07 .åâ 96 18:59
 To   : Robert Lidgren
 Subj : Re: Star Trek Sexism
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

RL> thoughts.
RL> 3.  Is your attitude merely mysogyny in disguise?
RL> 4.  Most of us have many women in our lives and I for one have found NOT
RL> ONE
RL>     who wants to be a man.
RL> 5.  Yes, women want legal equality and political equality.  They want
RL> equal pay
RL>     for equal work.  They want to be respected just like men want to be
RL>     respected.
RL> 6.  They want to have career opportunities open to them.
RL> 7.  Some men find the changes in traditional women's roles threatening or
RL> at
RL>     least they now ask questions about their own identitiy and roles.
RL>     The "Men's Movement" in its many incarnations sometimes tries to
RL>     make sense of this and redefine waht being a man really is.
RL>     The warrior model may have slightly outlived its usefulness.
RL> 8.  What many men need to do is provide strong and positive role-models
RL>     for their sons.  The burgeoning single-parent family leaves plenty
RL>     young men without a good role model so they often turn to gang leaders
RL>     or drug-dealers as models for how to get ahead.
RL> 9.  In traditional times men brought up their sons in the ethnic and
RL> cultural
RL>     traditions of their society.  I wonder why men have often reneged on
RL> this
RL>     responsibility.  However, I don't believe that women's emancipatiuon
RL>     caused all of this in any way.
RL> 10. Change is always threatening and sometimes anomie or a sense of
RL>     "normlessness" sets in when young men no longer know just who they are
RL> or
RL>     what goals they should set for themselves.  The fact that women have
RL>     become stronger or "appear" to be stronger is merely their free choice
RL> to
RL>     make changes in the way they have been treated.
RL> 11. I would suggest that intelligent women are not all man-haters and
RL> don't
RL>     see THAT as what defines them.

RL> At any rate, the thread you spawned about sexism has resulted in sometimes
RL> thoughtful and sometimes down-right angry responses. I just thought I'd
RL> take
RL> you at your word and offer some observations.  Hatred betwen men and women
RL> is
RL> not the way to go and women being in roles of leadership, like the Janeway
RL> character in "Voyager" ned not turn men into quivering globs of
RL> uncoordinated
RL> protoplasm.

RL> Mind you, not everthing in the feminist movement is healthy and I think
RL> that
RL> Camille Paglia brings some balance and common sense to the debate.  I
RL> recommend
RL> her collection of shorter writings in "Vamps and Tramps."  It made me see
RL> these
RL> issues with new insights not often found in some of the mainstream
RL> feminist
RL> thinkers.  In fact many of them detest Paglia and think of her as an
RL> enemy.

RL> Oh well, it is true there are more STRONG women characters in science
RL> fiction
RL> now and, you know what, there have been strong women all through history -


  This is ridiculous... the entire point is that there have been FAR more male
hunters, FAR more male presidents, FAR more male captains, FAR more male
providers, and that by physically examining women it is OBVIOUS that they have
evolved  in the fashion they have due to FAR less workload than men.. thats it.
i dont care what else anyone has to say, if you want to argue with what i just
said, i'm not even going to bother to reply, because i know that it is factual.
xxx
                                                       ..c.raven..
--- CNet/3
 * Origin: The Bard's Tavern Denton, TX (817)243-5110 USR 28.8   (1:393/7)

Ä [27] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 30 of 106
 From : Jon Roth                            1:143/254       .pä 07 .åâ 96 19:30
 To   : Chris Myers
 Subj : Re: Nowhere Man
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
        Ill agree with ya that sitcoms dominate too much of the airwaves, and w
sci-fi fans should stick together and such, but that episode of Nowhere man and
V5 in general disgusted me (though i usually like what I see in nowhere man)  I
sure that vr5 was probably not given a chance (youll notice that NOTHING has
managed to survive in the before X-files timeslot)  The show annoyed me because
there is only so much suspension of disbelief that a person can come up with.
        Anyone with even a smatering of computer/modem knowledge (e.g. anyone
reading thiscould have done a better job portraying the internet.
--- CNet/3
 * Origin: Gnome's Guest Room BBS - (408)554-6689 (1:143/254)

Ä [27] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 31 of 106
 From : Christian Raven                     1:393/7         .pä 07 .åâ 96 18:36
 To   : Barton Paul Levenson
 Subj : Re: Star Trek Sexism
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On Tue 30-Jan-1996  7:18a, Barton Paul Levenson wrote:

BL> Whether or not there are intrinsic differences of behavior in any given
BL> group is irrelevant.  It doesn't free you from the moral necessity of
BL> treating people as individuals.

  i fail to see what treating people as individuals has to do with anything i
was talking about.. and you say that the differences in people are irrelevant?
i'm afraid you're terribly mistaken there... would you put a mentally retarted
person in command of a starship?  if you treat everyone the same, you're going
to end up in a sadly lacking society, where everyone is operating by the
standards of the lowest common denominator.
                                                      ..c.raven..
--- CNet/3
 * Origin: The Bard's Tavern Denton, TX (817)243-5110 USR 28.8   (1:393/7)

Ä [27] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 32 of 106
 From : Christian Raven                     1:393/7         .pä 07 .åâ 96 18:48
 To   : Ecarey
 Subj : Re: Star Trek
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On Thu  1-Feb-1996  3:54a, Ecarey wrote:

E> CR>KS> So maybe they've stopped using the silly definitions to define real
E>  liv
E> CR>KS> people, as opposed to theoreticaly abstracts?  Heck, I can give
E> orders
E> CR>KS> and I'm female (!) and heterosexual (!!) and not even trying to be
E> a  ma
E> CR>KS> (!!!).  Wouldn't want to, really - not that men are bad necessarily
E>  (I'
E> CR>KS> married to one), but I'm perfectly happy with the sex I've got.

E> CR>  perhaps they have... and perhaps woman as a general species are
E> becoming m
E> CR>and more independant and assertive as they evolve.

E> Women aren't a species. They are the females of the same species men are
E> the males of.



  perhaps you are right there... women are not, scientifically speaking, a
different species than man.  however, they ARE intrinsically and generally
different in many, many ways, both psychologically and physically.  this is
quite obvious, as (a) there has never been a female president in the leading
country of the world, and (b) there has NEVER been a female weight-lifter even
NEARLY as strong as a male.  women are physically weaker, and mentally less
rational, the latter which could be obviously argued to a standstill... although
there are many signs of this.

E> CR>my entire argument is based
E> CR>on the fact that throughout history, probably almost to the beginning
E> of man
E> CR>(no matter what your religion), woman have been child-bearers.  now,
E> i'm not
E> CR>trying to be sexist (although reading my last message i can understand
E> how y
E> CR>might feel that way), but that's the way it was.  in fact, it wasn't
E> until
E> CR>quite recently that women began to take on some of the roles of their
E> male
E> CR>counterparts.  so the way i see it, you can't destroy that much evolved
E> CR>instinct in just a few decades... most likely, it will take quite a
E> long tim

E> Your knowledge of history is limited and inaccurate. Women bear the
E> children, but in most cultures, women have had to be able to exercise
E> power and authority. Most "primitive" cultures have elders of both sexes

  no, my knowledge of history is not limited, i merely underestimated your own.
but you are not entirely correct.  yes, *some* women in *some* societies have
been burdened with *some* of the male's responsibilities, but not many... for
instance, women, whether african, or indian, or many other cultures, were never
taught to hunt.  some cultures even PROHIBITED women from hunting, for fear that
their fragility might be threatened.

E> who are important in making decisions for the group as a whole. In more
E> technologically advanced cultures, women have often _in practice_ run
E> the households theoretically ruled by their husbands, while their
E> husbands were away doing other things - such as fighting the wars, or
E> dancing attendance on appropriate monarchs. This meant running the
E> _entire_ household, the male servants and tenant farmers as well as the
E> females.

  you are correct, but again, not completely.. yes *some* women have taken male
roles, but their numbers are few, and the reasons for this go back to my
original response.
                                                    ..c.raven..
--- CNet/3
 * Origin: The Bard's Tavern Denton, TX (817)243-5110 USR 28.8   (1:393/7)

Ä [27] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 33 of 106
 From : Christian Raven                     1:393/7         .pä 07 .åâ 96 18:53
 To   : The Raven
 Subj : Re: Aggression
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On Thu  1-Feb-1996  8:46p, The Raven wrote:

TR>
TR>  CR>  i agree, assertiveness is far superior to raw agression in the
TR>  CR>long term.  however, in order to gain the respect of your crew so
TR>  CR>that they will trust your assertations, you must show some degree
TR>  CR>of fearlessness, true compassion, and strong will.

TR>      And none of these traits requires agression to be combined in an
TR> effective leader, or have you forgotten Mohandas K. Ghandi?

  huh?  what did that have to do with what i just said?  in fact, how was what
you just said any different from what i said?
                                                        ..c.raven..
--- CNet/3
 * Origin: The Bard's Tavern Denton, TX (817)243-5110 USR 28.8   (1:393/7)

Ä [27] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 34 of 106
 From : ROBERT LIDGREN                      1:134/10        .òp 06 .åâ 96 22:01
 To   : FRANK GLOVER
 Subj : X-FILES
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
-> I'm inclined to agree with this. I just (and I mean minutes ago)
-> watched the next episode involving the gargoyles, and I get the hint of at
-> least Scully's concern for Mulder going somewhere beyond the professional.
-> (Not toward the `L' word now mind you, but somewhere beyond.) The nature of
-> the plot made it impossible to tell if his feelings are growing in any way,
-> though.

Hi Frank!

Yes, somethings up but the Gargoyles episode doesn't define it.  The sense is
there that we DO INDEED have the makings of further explorations between Scully
and Mulder re:  their reltionship.  However, Mulder spent so much time pouring
over gargoyle drawings, sculptures and historical sources in the LIBRARY that
we didn't get more.

BTW, I have heard from some people that they hate it when we get a Mulder
"voice-over."  What do you think?  I kind of like it because voice-overs are
the only way to get DIRECTLY inside a character's thinking/feeling processes.
I don't know, I kind of enjoy these diversions and always having to deduce
what's going on "beneath the mask."
--- PCBoard 15.2
 * Origin: 32 lines 40 Gig BBS, Realtime InterNet SLIP (403)299-9900 (1:134/10)

Ä [27] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 35 of 106
 From : Frank Swarbrick                     1:104/825       .òp 06 .åâ 96 20:00
 To   : Chris Myers
 Subj : NOWHERE MAN
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12  92-0022
On 02-04-96  09:23 my Very Good Friend Chris Myers said:

 CM> I was finally able to view an episode of Nowhere Man -- it was a
 CM> rerun this week according to the TV listing but for me it was new.  It
 CM> was the episode about the computer genius (shades of VR5).  I must say
 CM> I was impressed and am sorry to have been missing it all this time.  Is
 CM> it really cancelled?

I haven't heard about it being cancelled.  It was still on as of Feb
5, and they showed scenes for next week.

Now as for Deadly Games, that seems to have been cancelled.  Does
anyone know for sure?  It hasn't been on in about a month.

 CM> I also wanted to say regarding VR5, I was sorely disappointed that
 CM> they cancelled that show before it really got off the ground.  I found
 CM> it fascinating and I wish they would either make some follow-up movies
 CM> or revive it on one of the other networks.

I'm with you.  The first four episodes were not that good, but it just
got better and better after that.  I was very disappointed that it got
cancelled.  Did you know that there were three more episodes produced
that were never aired in the U.S.  They were aired in Europe, however.
I'd love to see them.  I have the other 10 on tape.  I really should
watch them again some time.

 CM> Frankly, I'm sick to death of being force fed addlebrained  sitcoms.
 CM> Every time they get a show that requires a little intellect to
 CM> appreciate, it gets cancelled first season, especially SF series.

Absolute agreement, though there are still quite a few high quality
shows out there.

        Frank

... No one can hear when you're Screaming in Digital!
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12
 * Origin: The Bailey Information Exchange BBS, 28.8k v.fc  (1:104/825.0)

Ä [27] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 36 of 106
 From : Nicolai Shapero                     1:102/524       .pä 07 .åâ 96 21:12
 To   : Chris Ogniben
 Subj : Re: nuclear BS
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
This subject has been declared off-topic.  It was declared off topic some time
ago by yours truly.  There has been MORE than enough time for you to have seen
that posting.

NO MORE POSTS ON THIS SUBJECT MATTER.

This is the third rules violation from you in less than two weeks.  Are you
trying for a record?

-- Nicolai Shapero, Moderator of the SFFAN echo

--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [27] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 37 of 106
 From : Nicolai Shapero                     1:102/524       .pä 07 .åâ 96 21:14
 To   : Chris Ogniben
 Subj : Re: nuclear BS
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Feb 05 12:59>, Chris Ogniben (1:2604/568) wrote to Chip Griffin:

 CO>   Anyone using a Apple computer, is a moron.

Chris, the next post of yours that I see after the 10th of this month that has
this sort of statement in it will prompt me to fire off a netmail message to
your sysop suspending your echomail access to this conference for six months.

You have been warned.

-- Nicolai Shapero, Moderator of the SFFAN echo

--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [27] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 38 of 106
 From : Anne Swasey                         1:2613/477      .åò 08 .åâ 96 13:24
 To   : Christian Raven
 Subj : Re: Star Trek
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Re: women`s roles.  Women have been prohibited from hunting, etc. not because of
their fragility, but because of the status & power that comes as a result of
successfully accomplishing these pursuits.  Men have carved out their own
territory, not physical but social and put up restrictions that specifically
exclude women.  Even when women excell they are not included in the history.
I fyou do not believe me, check this out yourself !  For ex. there was a woman
in the Revolutionary war who rode many more miles and DIDN`T get captured like
Paul Revere did, and even I forgot her name.  BUT... she did exist & did do the
task.  You may ask for motive ??!!  Well, aside from the fact that the
prevailing philosophy for *most* humans has always been that there is not enough
pie, so the more restrictions on everyone else, the more left for the privileged
few - After men had codified land ownership & inheitance laws, they wanted to
make sure that the offspring was in fact theirs, so in order to do this, they
had to strip away all power of choice from women.  Women were chattel property,
owned LITERALLY not figuritively, first by their fathers then by their husbands.
They could not make any decisions that were legally or otherwise binding , could
not own property, be paid compensation for work they did ( their husbands or
fathers got the money), or even decide who they would marry.  If they HAD any
choices, it was a boon granted to them but who ever owned them.  In this
conditon, HOW could you possibly expect them to accomplish anything??? Even,
education was forbidden in most cases.  If you allow someone, ANYONE, to acheive
status thenyou cannot totally control them.
Therefore, you do not allow them to do anything that would gain them status in
the eyes of society.  If you think I am exaggerating, consider the CHASTITY
BELT. It was a large heavy piece of iron NOT the nice little chain mail bikini
that you saw in Robin Hood, Men in Tights.  Many women died as a result of
infection from having these torture devices on their bodies for months &
possibly years while their husbands went off to war.  Just imagine trying to do
the normal bodily functions with this on. NEXT, example. Have you ever heard of
female genital fibrilation ?  Is is being practiced right here in this country
by muslims (primarily) & africans.  They basically, cut off the girls clitoris &
labia & sew everything closed, including the vagina, except for a small opeing
thru which to eliminate.  This is a practice limited to a small group of people.
It is quite widespread, in the arab, african & southeast asian countries.
Again, it is a guarantee than the women have no sexual feelin & there will be
faithhful after marriage & (they are cut open when married) that they are
virgins when married.
If this is not control, for the sake of control, I don`t know what is.  Right
now, some of our brave senators & congresswomen are putting up a bill to allow
political refugee status to womenn who have run from this procedure in their
countries.  These horrors are not done in hospitals and many girls& women die of
them.
Needless, to say - If we cannot even keep parts of our own bodies - how do you
expect us to excell in other things!! The fact that many of us haven`t is a
testimony to successful repression!!
The fact that a few of us have, is a testimony to our bravery & abilities.

... GIVE: Support the helpless victims of computer error.
--- QuickBBS 2.80 GoldBase (Zeta-1)
 * Origin: The Matrix Data Bank BBS, Rochester, Ny (1:2613/477)

Ä [27] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 39 of 106
 From : Gerry Normandeau                    1:163/430       .òp 06 .åâ 96 18:13
 To   : All
 Subj : The Twelve Monkies
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Hi all. I have a real brain buster for you. I have recently
watched the movie The Twelve Monkies. And I must say it was
another winner from our friend Terri Gillium.
 What I want to ask is, does anyone out there remembur the
name of the movie that this film is based on? I remembur seeing
it a long time ago on TVO's Magic Shadows with Elwy Yost. Now this
dates me for those who remember! :)
 The film was from France. It was filmed as a series of still
photos with a naration. All I can remembur is that it began
with a little boy witnesing a runnung man being shot down, Then
for some reason war brakes out, and the world is destroyed excep
for a handfull of survivors. The hero of the film, who was the
boy at the begining is scent back in time to try and stop what
happened but like in the Twelve Monkies is shot down in front of the
little boy he was. And ashe dies the movie ends.
 If any one can remembur this movie and its name please let me know!
           Thanks All!

Gerry Normandeau \ Nexis >> Fido Address-1:163/115
   ~~~~~~~~~~~

... Ever get the feeling your guardian angel is laughing at you?
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

--- Maximus 2.01wb
 * Origin: Watership Down BBS, Kanata , ON (1:163/430)

Ä [27] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 40 of 106
 From : Carnage                             1:163/403       .pä 07 .åâ 96 17:58
 To   : Tim Stackpool
 Subj : Re: X-Files & E.T.
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
hey i love that show they call the X-files, hey does anyone agree with
me that Scully is a babe, man, every show, is just amazing, oh man,
she's as hot as that baywatch chick, oh that's another somewhat crappy
show, i mean, i followed one of their saving procedures, and i nearly
killed someone
--- FidoPCB v1.5 beta-'j'
 * Origin: Akasha's Bubble Bath & Magic Potion Emporium (1:163/403)

Ä [27] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 41 of 106
 From : Frank Glover                        1:2613/477      .åò 08 .åâ 96 20:41
 To   : Chris Ogniben
 Subj : Re: Star Trek
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

CO>     Are you stupid or something?  It's pretty obvious that you don't
CO>  realize that Data could be a historical event in Voyager's computers,
CO>  where B'
CO>  ellanna could access it, since she is very into tech.  Or because she
CO>  met Data, or because she just knew about him as like everyone else
CO>  does.  So, you probably are to stupid to realize that.

   Excuse me, but is the word *polite* anywhere in your volcabulary?

   It doesn't necessairily follow that detailed information on Data would happen
to exist in the standard databases of the average Federation starship. Espically
as he resisted efforts to disassemble him for analysis (see Next Generation
episodes "The Measure of a Man" and "Lol.") It's possible that she heard of him
(he is the only android in Starfleet presently), but *no one* outside of Noonian
Sung knows too much about the design of his brain.

    The Federation in general, and Starfleet in particular are very large
concerns. An android with the status of crewperson is certainly noteworthy, but
in a universe where other kinds of androids and artificial intelligences are
nothing new, it isn't earth shattering, everybody-knows-this news. What you the
viewer knows, isn't necessairily common knowledge (like the Talos-4 affair) in
that Universe.

   So I submit it was a reasonable question.

   Frank


--- QuickBBS 2.80 GoldBase (Zeta-1)
 * Origin: The Matrix Data Bank BBS, Rochester, Ny (1:2613/477)

Ä [27] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 42 of 106
 From : Frank Glover                        1:2613/477      .åò 08 .åâ 96 20:45
 To   : ROBERT LIDGREN
 Subj : Re: X-FILES
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

RL>  BTW, I have heard from some people that they hate it when we get a
RL>  Mulder
RL>  "voice-over."  What do you think?  I kind of like it because
RL>  voice-overs are
RL>  the only way to get DIRECTLY inside a character's thinking/feeling
RL>  processes.

   I think it's a good idea as well. It would be interesting to hear a Scully
voice-over sometime, if the episode was a particularly moving one for her.

   Frank


--- QuickBBS 2.80 GoldBase (Zeta-1)
 * Origin: The Matrix Data Bank BBS, Rochester, Ny (1:2613/477)

Ä [27] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 43 of 106
 From : Frank Glover                        1:2613/477      .åò 08 .åâ 96 21:04
 To   : Chris Ogniben
 Subj : Re: nuclear BS
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ


CO>     Anyone using a Apple computer, is a moron.  Is a person that lacks

   *I use an Apple //e, a machine that's already an orphan, regardless of what
happens to Apple computer as a whole!* (Albiet with a hardware card that
emulates an XT.)

   Have you a kind word for *anyone?*

   Frank


--- QuickBBS 2.80 GoldBase (Zeta-1)
 * Origin: The Matrix Data Bank BBS, Rochester, Ny (1:2613/477)

Ä [27] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 44 of 106
 From : Frank Glover                        1:2613/477      .åò 08 .åâ 96 21:13
 To   : Christian Raven
 Subj : Re: Star Trek
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

CR>  psychologically and physically.  this is quite obvious, as (a) there
CR>  has never been a female president in the leading country of the
CR>  world, and (b) there has NEVER been a female weight-lifter even

   Umm, has someone told Margaret Thatcher this? Or does England count as
`leading' anymore? (And some of the best years of their history have been under
the rule of queens!)

   Frank


--- QuickBBS 2.80 GoldBase (Zeta-1)
 * Origin: The Matrix Data Bank BBS, Rochester, Ny (1:2613/477)

Ä [27] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 45 of 106
 From : Mark Jones                          1:105/302.47    .îí 05 .åâ 96 17:17
 To   : Frank Glover
 Subj : Alien threats?
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On (03 Feb 96) Frank Glover wrote to Mark Jones...

 FG>    But extraterrestrials who can come here, by definition are at least
 FG> as intelligent as us, with technology superior to ours, since we are
 FG> presently incapable of interstellar flight. There may be borderline
 FG> cases like that in `Footfall' where we have a chance (and a little
 FG> luck), but otherwise we would clearly survive at *their* sufferance.

    No argument.  But the moron in question seems to think that any
aliens who come knocking on our door will *necessarily* be physically
stronger (by a wide margin) than we are.  Which is a load of steaming
****, frankly.  Nobody knows.
    That any aliens who can cross interstellar space to kick sand in
our faces will be more advanced scientifically than we are I don't
dispute.  We can't do it.  If they can, obviously they've learned
something we don't know yet.


--- PPoint 1.78
 * Origin: Folcroft Sanitarium (hsmith@cure.com) (1:105/302.47)

Ä [27] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 46 of 106
 From : Mark Jones                          1:105/302.47    .pä 07 .åâ 96 22:15
 To   : The Raven
 Subj : Bred to Conquer
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On (05 Feb 96) The Raven wrote to Mark Jones...

 TR>      Ever read Alan Dean Foster's series, "The Damned"?  Good books,
 TR> all based on the premise that humans are *the* ultimate
 TR> dispensers of whup-ass in the Galaxy.

   I read the first one.  Actually, I hacked my way through it with a
machete (or that's how it felt) because the premise was entertaining.
But the *writing*....
   I had a phase when I really enjoyed ADF's novels--but not any more.


--- PPoint 1.78
 * Origin: Folcroft Sanitarium (hsmith@cure.com) (1:105/302.47)

Ä [27] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 47 of 106
 From : Arsenal                             1:362/708       .pä 31 .íâ 96 17:55
 To   : All
 Subj : prices on figurines #1
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
This is a first attempt to inform all people interested in the collection
of figures and the price of older figures....
No, I'm not selling anything! Prices are from "Collecting Fig. Magazine"
I thought this would be a good place to start a collector line for SF collectors
and to inform you the collector what you got and how much it's going
for.........   now for the Abberations...
MIB= Mint in box/package/card     Open=10-70% markdown in MIB price
all prices will be mostly MIB.    loose= opened box (note the prices)
\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\
\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\
               NAME of the Fig.           PRICE MIB          LOOSE
 ACTION MASTERS: 1994 Kenner
 Aliens-4 pack                              $20.00
 Aliens-single                              $ 6.00
 Batman-singles                             $ 6.00
 Star Wars-4 pack                           $40.00+
 Star Wars 6-pack                           $30.00
 Star Wars single                           $ 8.00
 /////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
 ADDAMS FAMILY: 1964 Remco
 Lurch                                      $425.00            $175.00
 Morticia                                   $425.00            $200.00
 Uncle Fester                               $500.00            $250.00

 ADDAMS FAMILY: Playmates
 Grandma                                    $10.00
 Gomez                                      $ 8.00
 Lurch                                      $ 8.00
 Morticia                                   $ 9.00
 Pugsley                                    $15.00
 Uncle Fester                               $ 8.00
 Wedsday   *Not listed?
//////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

... Hearing thing for a better fandom...
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.05 [NR]
 * Origin: The Inner Circle (1:362/708)

Ä [27] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 48 of 106
 From : Arsenal                             1:362/708       .pä 31 .íâ 96 18:46
 To   : All
 Subj : Prices of figurines #2
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
ALIENS: 1979 Kenner               MIB         LOOSE
 Alien 18" (rare)                $500.00      $250.00
ALIENS: 1986 Kayoda
 Queen Model kit                 $425.00
 Warrior Model kit               $150.00
ALIENS: Tsukuda
 Alien model kit                 $400.00
ALIENS: 1992 Kenner
 Apone                           $ 9.00
 Bishop                          $10.00
 Drake                           $ 9.00
 Hicks                           $ 9.00
 Ripley                          $10.00+
 Bull Alien                      $12.00
 Gorilla Alien                   $14.00
 Scorpion Alien                  $10.00
 Queen                           $15.00
ALIENS: 1993 Kenner
 Flying Queen                    $10.00
 Queen Face Hugger               $10.00
 Snake Alien                     $10.00
 Alien vs. Predator              $22.00+

more to follow, I'll get this out and work on the others.
stay tuned......


... Hearing thing for a better fandom...
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.05 [NR]
 * Origin: The Inner Circle (1:362/708)

Ä [27] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 49 of 106
 From : Brion Lienhart                      2:2487/9536     .óá 03 .åâ 96 09:10
 To   : Otto Cordray
 Subj : Not Darth
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

While substituting for Q, Chris Baugh took extreme delight in saying to me,
"You'll do anything I say?"  I quailed when the words "weird tv" were uttered.

 CB>> Would you include weird comedy?

 TS>> Can't say. The shows you mentioned are comedy to begin with,
 TS>> just taken to extremes. Python might qualify by its premise,
 TS>> but just barely.

 CB> So you're looking for just plain weird shows, presented in a serious

--- PCBoard (R) v15.22 (OS/2) 50
 * Origin: EPC-BBS   30 Lines  07345-957300 (2:2487/9536)

Ä [27] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 50 of 106
 From : Keith Stokes                        1:280/5         .åò 08 .åâ 96 22:18
 To   : Nicolai Shapero
 Subj : Independence Day
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE/2 1.2
* In a message originally to Frank Glover, Nicolai Shapero said:

NS>There's supposed to be a new movie coming out Real Soon Now,
NS>title INDEPENDENCE DAY about first contact.  Unpleasant first
NS>contact.  (Clip showed a government building in Wash. DC
NS>being blown to flinders...)

The last time that I saw a trailer for this one(about a month ago),
it said "coming this summer."

  Keith

 * Origin: Infinity (1:280/5)

Ä [27] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 51 of 106
 From : Keith Stokes                        1:280/5         .åò 08 .åâ 96 22:25
 To   : Brion Lienhart
 Subj : Gulliver's Travels
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE/2 1.2
* In a message originally to All, Brion Lienhart said:

BL>OK, so who else watched this? I liked it a lot. At first the
BL>"at home" scenes got in the way, but they seemed to fit in
BL>better in the second half. It must have been way too long

I enjoyed it, but found Gulliver's hallucinations anoying.  I think that his
story was enough to make them think him mad, without them.

  Keith
 * Origin: Infinity (1:280/5)

Ä [27] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 52 of 106
 From : Nicolai Shapero                     1:102/524       .åò 08 .åâ 96 06:10
 To   : Frank Glover
 Subj : Re: Star Trek Generations
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Feb 06 21:56>, Frank Glover (1:2613/477) wrote to Chris Ogniben:

 FG>   I think wecan assumethere will be an Enterprise-E...one
 FG>wonders what it will look like?

We've already seen what it's going to look like...remember ALL GOOD THINGS?
(Three nacelles, yet...)

-- Nicolai Shapero, the Mad Russian Sysop of StormGate Aerie

--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [27] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 53 of 106
 From : David Schumaker                     1:120/125       .ÿò 02 .åâ 96 12:34
 To   : All
 Subj : Used computers/equipment need for Gambian school
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
             USED COMPUTERS/EQUIPMENT NEED FOR GAMBIAN SCHOOL

                                 F A C E S

     The Fund for African-African American Cultural and
Educational Solidarity, Inc. (F A C E S) is a Michigan
corporation which is certified by the IRS as a 501(c)(3)
organization for tax purposes.  F A C E S' purpose is to secure
resources to operate projects in West Africa and here in the
United States that will hep improve the lives of children.
F A C E S was founded in 1994 through Hartford Memorial Baptist
Church of Detroit, Michigan with the encouragement and support of
its pastor, Dr. Charles G. Adams.

     One of F A C E S goals is to raise equipment/money to fund
selected development projects in Africa designed to benefit and
improve the quality of life for African children.

                  F A C E S Has Two West African Programs

     Two years ago, F A C E S adopted the Presidential Award
Scheme School in The Gambia.  Since then, F A C E S has built a
computer center building (36' x 60')    to house the
instructional program in computer technology, (the students are
proficient in every construction skill and therefore needed only
the materials, bought by
F A C E S , to complete the building themselves); electrically
wired two additional classrooms and installed fluorescent
lighting; provided 27 electric typewriters for the business
department; provided 16 electric typewriters for the business
department; provided 16 electric sewing machines; and provided
several volumes of needed books for the library.  However, the
need at the school continues to be great.  Besides money to
assist students to pay tuition, there are many material needs.

     The Presidential Award Scheme School (PAS) in Bakau serves
young people from all over the country.  More than 300 boys and
girls in the age group of 15 to 24 come here to learn a trade.
Many of them are school dropouts due to their inability to pay
the tuition to attend the comprehensive high schools, or were not
able to pass the comprehensive test required for enrollment in
high school.  The school operates in the Booker T. Washington
tradition, and prepares students with vocational skills that they
can use to either get a job or start a business upon completion.
The facilities and equipment used to train the young people are
inferior and grossly inadequate.

     The school is a last chance for most of the 15 to 24 year
old students who are drop-outs from the comprehensive schools
because they lacked the money to pay high school tuition.  The
school attempts to teach each boy and girl a skill or trade
suitable to earning a living in this small English speaking West
African country.  The school is GROSSLY INADEQUATE and the
facilities and equipment used in the instructional process are
either antiquated, in poor repair, or non-existent.  (For
example, a computer class was using an early model of the WANG
Word Processor.  We have gotten rid of this, and now use a single
IBM 286 in a class with ten students.)

     F A C E S seek thirty computers (and additional components,
listed below) to be used for instructional purposes in its
adopted school in The Gambia.  These computer materials may be
old or out of date as any materials will be useful (i.e. 286 or
386 computers/laptops, old versions of software etc.).  It is
hoped that the computers can be shipped in time to be installed
and dedicated on May 18th (the dedication date of the computer
center).

     Computers (30) preferably laptops
          (they are less expensive to ship)
     Printers (10-15)
     Any assorted other hardware
     (cables, mice, scanners, modem/fax cards, etc.)
     Software
     (preferably useful educational and wordprocessing materials)

     F A C E S will also establish a media and instructional
technology center at the Presidential Award Scheme School.  All
kinds of technical equipment, normally used in American Schools
are needed here.  Especially needed, in addition to the
computers, are copiers, film and slide projectors and a number of
other items (listed below) to improve the quality of the
instruction process.  At present, there is none of the equipment
which we take for granted, to assist the teachers in the
educational process.  We therefore plan to present the school
with the following equipment to be used by teachers, students and
administrators to achieve the goals of the school.  The
Instructional Technology Center will be housed in the library,
and have available for school use, the following:

     Copier(s)
     Overhead projector(s)         Tape recorder(s) / player(s)
     VHS VCR(s) and monitor(s)     Audio tape player(s)
     8mm film projector(s)         Fax machine (administrative)
     Slide projector(s)            Opaque projector(s)
     Film strip projector(s)       Transparency machine(s)

     Additionally, financial assistance with shipping costs (for
the above items and the computers)is also needed.

     F A C E S is a 501(C) (3) organization and donations are tax
deductible to the extent permitted by law.  Donations to
F A C E S will be acknowledged with a letter that can be used for
tax purposes, and the items given, once reconfigured will be shipped
to The Gambia to improve the quality of the learning experiences
for West African children.

     On behalf of F A C E S, Inc. and the children who will
benefit from your donations, thank you.  For more information on
F A C E S and its programs, contact Dr. Manuel H. Pierson at
(313) 861-0119 (voice) or (313) 862-5747(fax).  For information
on donating any of the above equipment contact David Schumaker at
(810) 280-1900 ext. 6257 (voice) or (810) 280-1456 (fax) or
E-mail David Schumaker at michelle@rust.net

... I have a dream .. C:> 937498127857679023 bytes free
--- JMail-G 2.80a
 * Origin: Holiday Magic*Southfield,Mi*HST/DS*810-552-8605 (FIDONET 1:120/125)

Ä [27] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 54 of 106
 From : Marc Zingarelli                     1:226/110       .åò 08 .åâ 96 08:42
 To   : The Raven
 Subj : Highlander
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12  92-0004

TR>     Because of my recent disk crash, I no longer have my Immortals list
  >from the series.  If anyone has a copy of it, could you please send me a
  >copy?  I'd greatly appreciate it.

Ah so that's where you've been hiding<g>.  I found rysher's web page and
noticed that they have an upcoming show schedule.  The last 5 and the
first episode of next season are TBA.  Does this mean we have a 5th season?

Later,

---
 Lt. Marc Zingarelli
 Local 1232
 Circleville Fire Department


---
 * OLX 1.52 * Misspelled?  Impossible.  My modem is error correcting.

--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12
 * Origin: The Computer Room-Pickerington, Oh (614)861-8377  (1:226/110.0)

Ä [27] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 55 of 106
 From : Jerry Van Kooten                    2:280/901.37    .åò 08 .åâ 96 07:34
 To   : Elizabeth H. Penrose
 Subj : The Guide and it's Incarnations...
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Hi Elizabeth,

Quoting <Elizabeth H. Penrose> to <Otto Cordray> (04-Feb-96, 06:01:08)
Subject: <The Guide and it's Incarnations...>

[Infocom]

 EHP> Hitchhiker's Guide.  Now if I could only set them up   . . .

You've got the 'hints' file as well?

See you,
Jerry

--- Terminate 3.00/Pro
 * Origin: I'm only kidding. We're going to die after all. -- FP (2:280/901.37)

Ä [27] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 56 of 106
 From : Channon Lang                        1:130/809       .óá 10 .åâ 96 02:46
 To   : Frank Glover
 Subj : Re: Star Trek
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE 1.11+
From a dark bottomless pit,Mark Jones screamed up to Frank Glover about Star
Trek..

 FG>    This would be interesting. She also seemed to know a fair amount
 FG> about Data. (espically for someone not originally part of Starfleet)
 FG> How much information on his construction is in the `public domain'
 FG> since his discovery, and likely to be in Voyager's databases? I would
 FG> wonder about the availability of materials, but Data himself almost
 FG> succeeded at building an android with his capability or greater (Lol),
 FG> with resources available on the Enterprise. And in semi-secrecy at
 FG> that.


 Actually, if you really want to nit-pick, B'Lanna was originally Star
 Fleet...remember she attended the Acadamy before she got fed up and quit...

 Channon


... URA Redneck if: Your wife's job requires her to wear an orange vest.
--- MachoEcho 0.5ñ
 * Origin: The State of Confusion * Arlington Tx * 817-274-1920 * (1:130/809)

Ä [27] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 57 of 106
 From : J.T. Smith                          1:132/152       .óá 03 .åâ 96 12:13
 To   : TODD SULLIVAN
 Subj : .
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Contact has been made.

 CO>    For your information, that one Nuculear power planet is enough to
 CO> wipe out about a 1000 or more people if it explodes.  So, i think it
 CO> would be best to keep the number limited for these types of plants to
 TS> And for your information, you're as ignorant of nukes as any fool out
 TS> there.

 And ye should know as ye're one of the biggest, yes? D)

 TS> Nicolai declared this off-topic.  Drop it now.

 Ye're certainly one to talk.  Look who keeps yapping about it.



... "Metal of good old days not so good." - Swoop, Autobot
--- Blue Wave v2.12 [NR]
 * Origin: The Cereal Port BBS (OS/2) Rindge,NH 603-899-3335 (1:132/152)

Ä [27] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 58 of 106
 From : J.T. Smith                          1:132/152       .åò 08 .åâ 96 18:28
 To   : Bill Clements
 Subj : CONTACT
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Contact has been made.

 JS> BC> `Fusion Without Ex-Lax' first published in `GALAXY'
 JS> BC> October 1976 (C)opyright by UPD Publishing Corporation
 JS> BC>  Inc. and reprinted in `A STEP FARTHER OUT' (C)opyright
 JS> BC> 1979 by Jerry Pournelle, Ph.D..  This was written in
 JS> BC> 1976, and is still true today.  How's that for a half
 JS> BC> life?  I implore all readers following this thread, and
 JS> BC> all resultant threads, PLEASE read `A STEP FARTHER OUT'
 JS> BC> and add it to your Pro-Nuclear Arsenal!
 JS> Nah.
 BC> Obviously contact has _NOT_ been made!

 Correction, having an open mind nae means that just anyone can change it.
 I've seen enough of nuclear power to know that I will never be pro-nuc.
 Period.  End of discussion.

 ----------------------------TRANSMISSION TERMINATED-------------------------



--- Blue Wave v2.12 [NR]
 * Origin: The Cereal Port BBS (OS/2) Rindge,NH 603-899-3335 (1:132/152)

Ä [27] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 59 of 106
 From : Kim Wheat                           1:271/285       .ÿò 09 .åâ 96 12:19
 To   : Channon Lang
 Subj : Star Trek
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
---<<*<<< Channon dazzled Buc Wheat with these words of wisdom!! >>>**>>----

 KW> Hi Chris,
 KW> You're talking to the 'expert' in foot-in-mouth disease-ism!! :>
 KW> But as a famous person once sprouted, "It takes a great man to admit
 KW> he overstepped his lip!" <lol>

 KW> Enjoy yourself, Chris!!

 KW> Kim :)

 CL> Hi Kim!!! I didn't realize you were in this echo too!! Nice to see a
 CL> familiar name!!! I think Chris has already swallowed his
 CL> foot...there's not much we can do about him...

 Hi Channon!! <hug>

   Sure, been here for years....just not as active on the TV/Movie
 side of the house as I am with the book side, is all! :>

   I've watched Chris since his first msg....and have started looking
 into card shops for this really, really large sympathy card for
 Nicolai! <g> She has the patience of a saint, she does!! :)

 CL> Now, back on topic....Whatd'ya think of B5 last night??? Did you
 CL> watch VOYAGER--the new one, that is...?

 Btwn you and John Kahane, who keep telling me that B5 HAS gotten better
 since season 1, I've been meaning to check it out. Wasn't til this
 week, Thursday in fact, that I finally looked through the whole TV
 guide and discovered that it's no longer on Sundays, but now on
 Wednesdays. So if I remember next Wed. I'll check it out and see if
 I can tolerate the acting. :>

 As for V'ger....nope....forget it....can't take any of them. Plots
 are stupid, Janeway should be courtmartialed, and keep waiting for
 a superior captain w/ a superior ship to blown V'ger outta the
 spaceways! <g> (But then again, I felt that way with TNG when it
 first started, being one of them "Nothing can replace Kirk & Company"
 fanatics....I got better!) <g>

 Kim :)


--- GEcho 1.00
 * Origin: From Trekkies & from B5ers who hate Trek save us! (1:271/285.0)

Ä [27] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 60 of 106
 From : Kim Wheat                           1:271/285       .ÿò 09 .åâ 96 11:48
 To   : Christian Raven
 Subj : Aggression
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
---<<*<<< Christian dazzled Buc Wheat with these words of wisdom!! >>>**>>----

 TR>  CR>  i agree, assertiveness is far superior to raw agression in the
 TR>  CR>long term.  however, in order to gain the respect of your crew so
 TR>  CR>that they will trust your assertations, you must show some degree
 TR>  CR>of fearlessness, true compassion, and strong will.

 TR>      And none of these traits requires agression to be combined in an
 TR> effective leader, or have you forgotten Mohandas K. Ghandi?

 CR> huh?  what did that have to do with what i just said?  in fact, how
 CR> was what you just said any different from what i said?

 Uh....2 sentences compared to 4?????

 (fishing here...sorry....back to my corner) <g>

 Kim :)


--- GEcho 1.00
 * Origin: From Trekkies & from B5ers who hate Trek save us! (1:271/285.0)

Ä [27] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 61 of 106
 From : Kim Wheat                           1:271/285       .ÿò 09 .åâ 96 11:52
 To   : Christian Raven
 Subj : Women
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
---<<*<<< Christian dazzled Buc Wheat with these words of wisdom!! >>>**>>----

 CR> perhaps you are right there... women are not, scientifically
 CR> speaking, a different species than man.  however, they ARE
 CR> intrinsically and generally different in many, many ways, both
 CR> psychologically and physically.  this is quite obvious, as (a) there
 CR> has never been a female president in the leading country of the world,

 uh...Margret Thatcher? Oh, sorry...guess UK ain't a leading country
 of this world.

 CR> and (b) there has NEVER been a female weight-lifter even NEARLY as
 CR> strong as a male.  women are physically weaker, and mentally less
 CR> rational, the latter which could be obviously argued to a
 CR> standstill... although there are many signs of this.

 Sheesh, you are one brave dude, dude!

 Kim :)


--- GEcho 1.00
 * Origin: From Trekkies & from B5ers who hate Trek save us! (1:271/285.0)

Ä [27] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 62 of 106
 From : Todd Sullivan                       1:202/720.3     .åò 08 .åâ 96 16:29
 To   : Chris Baugh
 Subj : syzygy
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
While substituting for Q, Chris Baugh took extreme delight in saying to me,
"You'll do anything I say?"  I quailed when the words "syzygy" were uttered.

 TS>> A syzygy is...

 CB> Thanks.

You're welcome.

In astrology, conjunctions are times of a gathering of power or of change; a
syzygy is even rarer, and points to more power or more change, good or bad.

Todd Sullivan

... "The gods have their own rules." --Ovid

-*- ASTG 1.9

--- Spot 1.3a Unregistered
 * Origin: Todd's Spot in the Continuum (1:202/720.3)

Ä [27] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 63 of 106
 From : Todd Sullivan                       1:202/720.3     .åò 08 .åâ 96 17:01
 To   : Frank Glover
 Subj : Star Trek Generations
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
While substituting for Q, Frank Glover took extreme delight in saying to Chris
Ogniben, "You'll do anything I say?"  Chris quailed when the words "Star Trek
Generations" were uttered.

 CO>>  seemed as if the enterprise did go through a bit of refit, since a
 CO>>  of things looked different.  I don't know if it was the holodeck that
 CO>>  Data and Picard were in to view the star maps.  But, i thought it was
 FG>    The Stellar Cartography room is a set built for the movie, but I
 FG> think we can consider it to simply be apart of the ship we haven't seen
 FG> before.
 FG>
 FG>    I think we can assume there will be an Enterprise-E...one wonders what
 FG> it will look like?

Seems to me the ship we say leaving orbit was a possibility.  In the TNG Tech
Manual, the next class is the Nova; one might assume that was it, or another new
design.

Todd Sullivan

... "A man should be jailed for telling lies to the young."
     --Lillian Hellman

-*- ASTG 1.9

--- Spot 1.3a Unregistered
 * Origin: Todd's Spot in the Continuum (1:202/720.3)

Ä [27] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 64 of 106
 From : Todd Sullivan                       1:202/720.3     .åò 08 .åâ 96 17:06
 To   : Darre LuAllen
 Subj : Bs!!
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
While substituting for Q, Darre LuAllen took extreme delight in saying to me,
"You'll do anything I say?"  I quailed when the words "Bs!!" were uttered.

 TS>> think I'm stupid enough to just sit still and take
 TS>> something I can avoid, or not take your sorry @$$ out at
 TS>> 100 yards?  Besides, you postulated an unfair fight; what
 TS>> makes you think *any* fight is fair?  It's not, and you'd
 TS>> do well th remember that when you threaten anyone.  Talk to
 TS>> a Marine that way--to his face--and he'll wipe the floor
 TS>> with you without thinking about it.
 DL>
 DL>  Depends upon the Marine.  Most would just snipe him at 500 yds and
 DL>  be done with it.  I must commend you on your patience.  Personally,
 DL>  I would be all over him for such comments (although logically, I know
 DL>  that it would accomplish nothing).

<snort!>  He's been a thorn in everyone's side from day one of his arrival. This
bit of his was the final straw.

Todd Sullivan

... "Each of us bears his own Hell." --Virgil

-*- ASTG 1.9

--- Spot 1.3a Unregistered
 * Origin: Todd's Spot in the Continuum (1:202/720.3)

Ä [27] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 65 of 106
 From : Phill Ash                           1:275/160       .åò 08 .åâ 96 11:17
 To   : Judy Hayes
 Subj : STAR TREK SEXISM
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE 1.11+

 JH> Phil....what "studies" are you referring to?  I know of many places
 JH> where this "just ain't so".  Women are still making less money than men
 JH> in  comparable jobs.

        That's why I hate inputting that sort of thing... I never keep
        articles laying around!  It was from an article in 'Time' or
        'Business Weekly'.

 PA> Meanwhile, 2-income families became the "elite" and in the
 PA> Great American Spirit of "Keeping Up With the Joneses", a
 PA> family eventually required 2 incomes in order to maintain the
 PA> status of "middle class".

 JH> My husband and I began with 2 jobs when we got married.  Then he went
 JH> to school and worked part time and I worked full time.  All through
 JH> this time we made ends meet - barely.  After he got a good full time
 JH> job, we had children....we both *need* to work to have a decent place
 JH> to live in an area that has a good public school system.  The area we
 JH> live in has public schools that are considered the best in the state -
 JH> however, in order to live here we pay much higher rent and other
 JH> things.  If we moved to  a cheaper area we would probably wind up
 JH> sending our kids to a private  school - no savings there.  So "keeping
 JH> up with the Joneses" is not a  prime motivation for us....nor is it for
 JH> many middle class families.

        Sure, it is!  If you're not so concerned about maintaining the
        financial 'status quo' then surely one of you could take a few
        years off from the workforce and practice homeschooling your
        kids.  Chances are, they'd be better off for it!

 PA> This led to the rise of non-familial child-care which now
 PA> pervades our society.  Children are being forced to interact
 PA> socially with children of various race, religion and national
 PA> origin; thus causing confusion with regards to social mores
 PA> and ethics.

 JH> You think having your children exposed to a variety of backgrounds is
 JH> a *bad* thing?  My children enjoy learning about other cultures and are
 JH> facinated by their differences....I wouldn't call them confused.

        There was a 3 year-old in England back in '93 who enjoyed
        interacting with older children.  When his mother took him to a
        mall, he walked away with 2 10 year-olds.  Becoming bored with
        him, the 10 year-olds led him down by the railroad tracks and
        smashed his skull in with a rock.  His body (or the remains
        thereof) was found 3 weeks later.

 PA> Without a father-figure, youths of the 70's and 80's became
 PA> teens of the 80's and 90's who, in some instances, actually
 PA> believe that it's alright to impregnate a woman and never
 PA> interact with her again.  These "hit & runs" are founded in a
 PA> belief that a father is not necessary because "I turned out ok
 PA> without a father".

 JH> You equate going to non-familial child-care with not having a father
 JH> figure? Or am I misunderstanding you?

        You didn't catch the "in some instances" <G>

 JH> And that, a child who has no "at home" father-figure will become an
 JH> unwed or at least, unresponsible teen parent?

        From '69 to '75, I had no father-figure... and I'm not a raging
        sociopath (much <G>).  Since my divorce, I have joint custody of
        my son (3 years old) and he spends the majority of his days with
        me, while spending the evenings with his mother.

 JH> Children who are raised properly and given a good set of values should
 JH> be  able to apply those values to their own lives no matter whether
 JH> they  recieved them from one or both parents.

        Is a 'lone' parent *really* equipped to perform that function?
        No.  The Day-care industry is proof of that.

 PA> This is probably one of the primary reasons Roddenberry chose
 PA> to have families aboard the Enterprise-D.  As Crusher avers in
 PA> "When the Bough Breaks", human are at their fiercest when
 PA> their children are threatened.  Or so we hope for the Future.

 JH> True....but what does this do with women wanting to become men?

        (shhh!  I'm trying to keep it 'on-topic'!!! <G>)

        btw... I found the Alcone Paramount Theatrical Supplies catalog
        that I told you about before.  The addresses are as follows:

        Mail-Order Warehouse            Retail Store
        Alcone L.I.C.                   Alcone N.Y.C.
        5-49 49th Ave                   235 W. 19th St
        Long Island City                New York City
        NY, 11101                       NY, 10011
        tel. 718-361-8373               tel & fax 212-633-0551
        fax. 718-729-8296

                They have divided their catalogs, so you'll want to
                specify either "Make-Up Supply" or "Technical Supply"



Your pal:  PhlAsh
... Spirit singing, a song of the ages. Depend on today, like father's honor
---
 * Ùystertags v1.1 *
~~~ ReneWave v1.01 [NR]
--- Smile :)
 * Origin: * The Beast's Lair * (804)498-3070 * Va Beach VA * (1:275/160)

Ä [27] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 66 of 106
 From : Phill Ash                           1:275/160       .åò 08 .åâ 96 11:17
 To   : The Raven
 Subj : Highlander
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE 1.11+

 TR> Because of my recent disk crash, I no longer have my Immortals
 TR> list from the series.  If anyone has a copy of it, could you please
 TR> send me a copy?  I'd greatly appreciate it.

        You want it NetMail or via InterNet?


Your pal:  PhlAsh
... I'm graduating in one more term, because I haven't any time to burn
---
 * Ùystertags v1.1 *
~~~ ReneWave v1.01 [NR]
--- Smile :)
 * Origin: * The Beast's Lair * (804)498-3070 * Va Beach VA * (1:275/160)

Ä [27] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 67 of 106
 From : John Crawford                       1:221/1050      .cê 04 .åâ 96 00:23
 To   : Chris Ogniben
 Subj : Re: X-files
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
         I agree.  By the way, my friend got her computer now, so she might
write to you.  See ya.

--- Maximus/2 2.02
 * Origin: Five Guys BBS (1:221/1050)

Ä [27] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 68 of 106
 From : Kay Shapero                         1:102/524       .ÿò 09 .åâ 96 11:28
 To   : Christian Raven
 Subj : Re: Star Trek Sexism
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Feb 07 18:59>, Christian Raven (1:393/7@fido) wrote to Robert Lidgren:

 CR>examining women it is OBVIOUS that they have evolved  in the
 CR>fashion they have due to FAR less workload than men.. thats it.

ROFLASTC!!!  Thanks - that's the funniest thing I've seen all day.

You've been putting us on all along, haven't you?  My congratulations on your
excellent imitation of a bigot.  Now tell me - who are you, really?

--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [27] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 69 of 106
 From : Darre LuAllen                       1:3637/1        .ÿò 09 .åâ 96 15:35
 To   : Christian Raven
 Subj : Re: Star Trek
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 On 02-07-96 Christian Raven wrote to Ecarey...

 CR> perhaps they have... and perhaps woman as a general species are becoming
 CR> more and more independant and assertive as they evolve.

 E> Women aren't a species. They are the females of the same species men are
 E> the males of.

 CR>   perhaps you are right there... women are not, scientifically
 CR> speaking, a
 CR> different species than man.  however, they ARE
 CR> intrinsically and generally different in many, many ways,
 CR> both psychologically and physically.  this is quite
 CR> obvious, as (a) there has never been a female president in
 CR> the leading country of the world, and (b) there has NEVER

 Queen Victoria?  Queen Elizibeth?  Boadicia?  Cleopatra?
 Catherine the Great?  How many world history classes DID you
 sleep through.  (assuming I understand your "female president"
 statement)

 CR> been a female weight-lifter even NEARLY as strong as a
 CR> male.  women are physically weaker, and mentally less
 CR> rational, the latter which could be obviously argued to a

 Do you think that fighting someone to the death just because he
 insulted you is very rational?  Or perhaps the rounding up of fellow
 countrymen and imprisoning them during a war just because of their
 ethnic origin is rational?  Frankly, most of the women that I've know
 have been more rational than the men.

 CR> standstill... although there are many signs of this.



 CR> E> CR>my entire argument is based
 CR>on the fact that throughout history, probably almost to the

 <Slice>

 E> Your knowledge of history is limited and inaccurate. Women bear the
 E> children, but in most cultures, women have had to be able to exercise
 E> power and authority. Most "primitive" cultures have elders of both sexes

 CR>   no, my knowledge of history is not limited, i merely
 CR> underestimated your own.  but you are not entirely correct.

 So, were you trying to us smokescreen tactics hoping that they would
 not be seen through.

 CR>  yes, *some* women in *some* societies have been burdened
 CR> with *some* of the male's responsibilities, but not many...
 CR> for instance, women, whether african, or indian, or many
 CR> other cultures, were never taught to hunt.  some cultures
 CR> even PROHIBITED women from hunting, for fear that their
 CR> fragility might be threatened.

 "fragility" - I'm not a woman, so I cannot speak from experience (nor do
 I want to be able to).  However, have you even considered the pain and
 suffering encountered due to childbirth?  I've had nasty injuries, but
 never have I had a 6 to 10 pound object force itself out of one of my
 smaller bodily openings.  Frankly, I don't think that I could take it.
 And if you think that you could do it and keep smiling, then you're a
 superhuman mutant or a fool.

 Most of the cultures you elude to have a strict policy of keeping the
 people necessary to creating the future food gathers out of the path of
 wild animals.  Stop to think what would happen to a village if all the
 women were killed off because some stupid hunter caused the animal to
 charge the wrong way.  Go on, I'll wait. (Hum.  Hum.  HumHum.)

 Oh, your back.  I hope you begin to see the point.  As far as frailty, you
 are too much a product of the modern times.  Have you any idea how
 difficult home labor was several centuries ago?  Or do you know how many
 women have helped in the food production of farms?  How about all those
 women who worked in the sweat shops during the Industrial Revolution?
 I do not know how old you are, but remember that right after WW2, our
 country evolved the idea of "housewifes."  Before that, wemon who stayed
 home did so because they had been trained in the menial and thankless jobs
 required to run a household.  Only during the last few decades have *men*
 been breaking from a mold that they were pressed into in the fifties.  We
 have lived in a society which attempted to lessen one half the population
 in status.  You were probably raised with values caused by this paradox.

 E> who are important in making decisions for the group as a whole. In more
 E> technologically advanced cultures, women have often _in practice_ run
 E> the households theoretically ruled by their husbands, while their
 E> husbands were away doing other things - such as fighting the wars, or
 E> dancing attendance on appropriate monarchs. This meant running the
 E> _entire_ household, the male servants and tenant farmers as well as the
 E> females.

 CR>   you are correct, but again, not completely.. yes *some*
 CR> women have taken male roles, but their numbers are few, and
 CR> the reasons for this go back to my original response.

 See above.  Also:  By labeling these jobs as *male roles*, you are
 clouding your own reasoning.  These jobs are necessary for the smooth
 functioning of a house.  Typically, they have been assumed by the person
 who could do them.  The sex of this person was determined by *social*
 factors, not physical or mental ones.  You strike me as someone who would
 have difficulty taking orders from a female boss or commander.  Not really
 your fault.  It's just the way you were raised.  During the middle ages, as
 an example, a Western European family would be headed by a man.  The Church
 taught a subservience of the wife to the husband; the woman to the man.
 When a man was called away to fight, his wife would take over the duties of
 the house.  In fact, many houses didn't realize there had been a change.

 Men refused to follow a woman's orders simply because he had been taught
 all his life that she was so much less that he was.  It was a matter of
 pride.  (This is a similar condition as has been seen during the last few
 decades.)  However, many women proved to be capable leaders.  Joan of Arc
 immediately leaps to mind, as does Queen Elizibeth I.  These women were
 exceptions only because they stood up to the traditional teachings of the
 times.  Their abilities are a secondary concern when considering the
 strength of character and bravery it takes to balk the organization which
 can insure that your soul burns in hell for all eternity (think about that
 for a moment).

 I've run on long enough for now.  I do not want you to take this as a
 personal attack.  I merely wish to provide you with some information which
 might open your mind a little.  Frankly, I don't expect to convert you, as
 you seem rather set in you opinions.  Oh, well.

                                             Darre LuAllen
                                             Champion of the
                                             Open Mind

___
 * OFFLINE 1.56 * Maturity is a fine balance of independence and dependence.

--- Maximus/2 3.01
 * Origin: Cumberland BBS TN 615/526-3347 V34 (1:3637/1)

Ä [27] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 70 of 106
 From : Darre LuAllen                       1:3637/1        .ÿò 09 .åâ 96 15:49
 To   : Christian Raven
 Subj : Re: Star Trek Sexism
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 On 02-07-96 Christian Raven wrote to Robert Lidgren...

 CR> This is ridiculous... the entire point is that there have been FAR more

 [...]

 CR> thats it.  i dont care what else anyone has to say, if you
 CR> want to argue with what i just said, i'm not even going to
 CR> bother to reply, because i know that it is factual. xxx

 If you dam up a stream and do not allow any new water to flow in,
 you have just created a stagnent pool.  When you let some of the water
 out, only water undrinkable by all animals and people will come out.  I
 fear that you have done this to your own mind.  You have taken your own
 ideas and decided that the rest of existance is wrong.  You have dammed
 up you own mind's stream.  Now only unpaletable water comes forth.  Unless
 you change your world view, you will join the ranks of the Self Styled
 Ignorant and deselect yourself by walking in front of some vehicle because
 you *KNOW* that it will stop before hitting you.

 Science Fiction and Fantasy allows us to examine our own world without
 naming names.  No actual people need to be hurt in order to examine
 a model of a social revolution.  Thus, we can explore people's roles
 irregardless of sex without rampling feathers.

 Finally, you have the right to your own opinion.  If you look at the world
 around you and decide that women are weaker, then so be it.  I'll defend
 your right to your opinion even though I refuse to accept it as my own.
 You are the one who has to live with it.  You have to defend it from
 attacks.  I just implore you to open your eyes and see the world before
 decideing it's wrong.  You might surprise yourself.

                                                Darre LuAllen


___
 * OFFLINE 1.56 * Maturity is a fine balance of independence and dependence.

--- Maximus/2 3.01
 * Origin: Cumberland BBS TN 615/526-3347 V34 (1:3637/1)

Ä [27] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 71 of 106
 From : James Walton                        1:129/260       .ÿò 09 .åâ 96 23:43
 To   : Chris Carter
 Subj : Re: Star Wars Novelizations
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Re Star Wars novel:

 > So you have a 1st ed., huh?  I'd love to have a look at it.  Of
 > course, you'll want to put it under a salad bar sneezeguard so as
 > to keep the drool off of it. :)


It's nothing special really.  The pages are starting to turn yellow, since it is
a cheap paper back book.  Lucas really didn't know what he had.
The cover features a large head shot of the original artist's concept of Darth
Vader. (Not exactly how we know him.)  On top of that are drawings of characters
who generally look like Luke Skywalker, Princess Leia, C3PO and R2D2.
The book is in pretty good shape but you can tell that it has been read.  In
fact 3 people read this copy before the movie came out.
From your reaction, I would guess that this book is probably worth more than the
cover price. $1.95?  (It isn't within reach at the moment.)

--- Opus-CBCS 1.73a
 * Origin: ConFluence '96:  Return to Mars! (1:129/260.0)

Ä [27] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 72 of 106
 From : James Walton                        1:129/260       .ÿò 09 .åâ 96 23:51
 To   : Chris Ogniben
 Subj : Re: Star Trek
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 >
 >    Are you stupid or something?  It's pretty obvious that


Hey dude, CHILL OUT!

--- Opus-CBCS 1.73a
 * Origin: ConFluence '96:  Return to Mars! (1:129/260.0)

Ä [27] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 73 of 106
 From : Elizabeth H. Penrose                1:129/26        .ÿò 09 .åâ 96 20:18
 To   : Channon Lang
 Subj : Computer Hitchhiker
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
It was zapped when the computer went down.  I know nothing more.  Barton Paul
Levenson (who has roughly the same connection to me as Jack Benny's
vault-keeper) promises to reinstate it when I'm done with my paper.

--- Maximus 3.01
 * Origin: SoundingBoard, Pittsburgh PA (1:129/26)

Ä [27] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 74 of 106
 From : Barton Paul Levenson                1:129/26        .ÿò 09 .åâ 96 21:18
 To   : Bill Clements
 Subj : EDUCATION
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
This topic has been ruled out of bounds by the moderator.

My degree is University of Pittsburgh 1983.  You know, the one where Cohen
teaches nuclear engineering.

--- Maximus 3.01
 * Origin: SoundingBoard, Pittsburgh PA (1:129/26)

Ä [27] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 75 of 106
 From : Channon Lang                        1:130/809       .óá 10 .åâ 96 21:34
 To   : Kim Wheat
 Subj : Re: Star Trek
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE 1.11+
From a dark bottomless pit,Kim Wheat screamed up to Channon Lang about Star
Trek..

 KW> Hi Channon!! <hug>

 Thank you...it's always nice to get a hug...

 KW> Sure, been here for years....just not as active on the TV/Movie
 KW> side of the house as I am with the book side, is all! :>

 So, you have your house divided up between Movies and Books...Hmmmm, and
 to think I have mine divided up between computers and child, although,
 the child is beginning to take over there too...

 KW> I've watched Chris since his first msg....and have started looking
 KW> into card shops for this really, really large sympathy card for
 KW> Nicolai! <g> She has the patience of a saint, she does!! :)

 Well, she's put up with ALOT more than I would have...and to think I'm a
 sysop too...

 CL> Now, back on topic....Whatd'ya think of B5 last night??? Did you
 CL> watch VOYAGER--the new one, that is...?

 KW> Btwn you and John Kahane, who keep telling me that B5 HAS gotten
 KW> better since season 1, I've been meaning to check it out. Wasn't til
 KW> this week, Thursday in fact, that I finally looked through the whole
 KW> TV guide and discovered that it's no longer on Sundays, but now on
 KW> Wednesdays. So if I remember next Wed. I'll check it out and see if
 KW> I can tolerate the acting. :>

 Well, if you want to know the truth, I have only recently started watching
 it. Like, real recent...maybe since right before Christmas, that's it.


 KW> As for V'ger....nope....forget it....can't take any of them. Plots
 KW> are stupid, Janeway should be courtmartialed, and keep waiting for
 KW> a superior captain w/ a superior ship to blown V'ger outta the
 KW> spaceways! <g> (But then again, I felt that way with TNG when it
 KW> first started, being one of them "Nothing can replace Kirk & Company"
 KW> fanatics....I got better!) <g>

 Yeah, I know what you mean. I was that way about TNG, too. My dad still
 refuses to watch DS9, but somehow he tolerates V'ger. I keep trying to
 give V'ger the benefit of the doubt. But, to tell you what, if they don't
 start doing MUCH better, I'll have to finally write it off. Actually, I
 like Janeway, but the writers need to really start working...maybe get
 some writers from TNG or something...or start totally new...who knows.

 Channon
... "Bother", said Pooh, as Kirk beamed him down in a red shirt
--- MachoEcho 0.5ñ
 * Origin: The State of Confusion * Arlington Tx * 817-274-1920 * (1:130/809)

Ä [27] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 76 of 106
 From : Chris Carter                        1:105/290.23    .óá 10 .åâ 96 06:05
 To   : Christian Raven
 Subj : Star Trek Sexism
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On ( 7 Feb 96) Christian Raven wrote to Robert Lidgren...

 CR> i dont care what else anyone has to say, if you want to argue with
 CR> what i just said, i'm not even going to bother to reply, because i
 CR> know that it is factual.

A mind, like a parachute, must be open in order to function.

I wonder if the sound of someone hitting my twit filter is much like the
sound of someone hitting the ground after falling 10,000 feet?

*plonk*

Chris - carter@teleport.com


... If less is more, than nothing is everything.

--- PPoint 2.00
 * Origin: Grid Epsilon Coords. 105x290x23 (1:105/290.23)

Ä [27] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 77 of 106
 From : Chris Carter                        1:105/290.23    .óá 10 .åâ 96 06:10
 To   : Nicolai Shapero
 Subj : Star Trek Generations
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On (08 Feb 96) Nicolai Shapero wrote to Frank Glover...

 FG> I think wecan assumethere will be an Enterprise-E...one
 FG> wonders what it will look like?

 NS> We've already seen what it's going to look like...remember ALL
 NS> GOOD THINGS?  (Three nacelles, yet...)

The vessel in "All Good Things" was the Enterprise-D, after a major
refit.  You'll remember Adm. Riker's comments to the effect of,
"bringing her out of mothballs," or something.  Also, the third nacelle
is recognizably a retrofit.  Look at its mounting.

If another ST film is made following the events in "Generations," I
imagine the Enterprise-E will have a configuration similar to the
standard main hull / secondary hull / twin-nacelle design that has
always been the paradigm for starships called 'Enterprise.'  Still, a
few new wrinkles will be added...

But please, NO articulated warp nacelle mounts!

Chris - carter@teleport.com


... "If it's the Captain's Mess, let him clean it up!"

--- PPoint 2.00
 * Origin: Grid Epsilon Coords. 105x290x23 (1:105/290.23)

Ä [27] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 78 of 106
 From : Barton Paul Levenson                1:129/26        .óá 10 .åâ 96 07:02
 To   : Christian Raven
 Subj : Re: Star Trek Sexism
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
I said "individuals."  Group differences really are irrelevant.  Your mentally
retarded individual would not pass the tests to be a starship Captain.  But
everyone should have a right to take the tests.  The situation in the last
episode of the third season of the original, where women per se were not allowed
to command starships, is immoral.  (And also showed a serious failure of
imagination on Gene Roddenberry's part.)  Even if most women couldn't make the
grade, some might.  The question is not, should women be allowed to command a
starship?  The question is, should Jane be allowed to command starship?  Should
Bob?  Should Alice?

--- Maximus 3.01
 * Origin: SoundingBoard, Pittsburgh PA (1:129/26)

Ä [27] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 79 of 106
 From : Barton Paul Levenson                1:129/26        .óá 10 .åâ 96 07:13
 To   : Christian Raven
 Subj : Re: Star Trek
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
No women have ever been President of a major nation?  I assume you don't count
India (Indira Gandhi), Pakistan (Benazir Ali Bhutto), Denmark (Gro Haarlem
Brundt), Israel (Golda Meir) or Great Britain (Margaret Thatcher) as major
nations?

And aside from Presidents and PMs, have you never heard of Zenobia of Palmyra?
Eleanor of Aquitaine?  Joan Darc?  Julia Domna?

As to women being less rational than men, "less rational" measured how?

There are indeed real differences between men and women, but they have nothing
to do with the stereotypes you list.  Mostly it's in reproductive physiology.
Women average about 5% lower upper body strength but have greater endurance.
None of these give any rational reason for treating women (or men) as
second-class citizens.

--- Maximus 3.01
 * Origin: SoundingBoard, Pittsburgh PA (1:129/26)

Ä [27] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 80 of 106
 From : Barton Paul Levenson                1:129/26        .óá 10 .åâ 96 07:17
 To   : Christian Raven
 Subj : Re: Star Trek Sexism
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
"Far less workload than men?"  Not at all.  Different work.  In hunter-gatherer
societies, the women typically gather while the men hunt.  Gathering is by FAR a
more physically strenuous job; try it some time.  I have.  And try lugging a
baby around with you all day.

What you know just ain't so.

--- Maximus 3.01
 * Origin: SoundingBoard, Pittsburgh PA (1:129/26)

Ä [27] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 81 of 106
 From : Elizabeth H. Penrose                1:129/26        .óá 10 .åâ 96 09:57
 To   : Todd Sullivan
 Subj : Replies
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
"You remind me of most Christians" . . .  Apart from the prejudice ("You remind
me of most Blacks . . .") why is this here?  The comment is not applied to an SF
topic.  I am prickly, but then I count myself with "most Christians" in my
essential characteristic; I worship Jesus Christ.  I don't believe tI would
generalize in the way you have; I hope I wouldn't.

--- Maximus 3.01
 * Origin: SoundingBoard, Pittsburgh PA (1:129/26)

Ä [27] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 82 of 106
 From : Tommy Kellerman                     2:205/356       .îí 05 .åâ 96 20:24
 To   : Jerry Van Kooten
 Subj : Re: V
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
In a message dated 22-Jan-96 21:31:37, Jerry Van Kooten wrote:

 JVK> Hi Tommy,

Yo Jerry!

 JVK> Quoting <Tim Stackpool> to <Tommy Kellerman> (18-Jan-96, 02:27:18)
 JVK> Subject: <Re: V>
 TK>> Does anyone know how many episodes of "V" that are available?
 TK>> In Sweden they've shown about twelve, but I suspect
 TK>> there are more available.

 JVK> I've seen the shows on English and Dutch TV. They both showed two series,
 JVK> and I remember they both comprised of about six episodes.

Yep. The same way it went in Sweden, but the SVT got cheap on us.. AARGH!
According to a friend of mine in the U.S. there are at least another six
episodes available which I also would like to see, but since none of the
Nordic channels haven't bought any broadcasting rights, I might as well look
at the Moon...

Have a nice day!


/// -Tommy K.- \\\

--- Xenolink 1.0 Z.3, EmacsXL.4
 * Origin: NoLimit, Furudal +46-258-10071 (2:205/356)

Ä [27] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 83 of 106
 From : Tommy Kellerman                     2:205/356       .îí 05 .åâ 96 20:41
 To   : David Johnston
 Subj : Ufo
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
In a message dated 25-Jan-96 01:03:00, David Johnston wrote:

 DJ> -> Tonight, about 6 P.M. CMT (Central Meridian Time) I was on my way
 DJ> -> home from the bus-station when I noticed a strange-looking "star" in
 DJ> -> the curtain of night. No clouds were about, and no moon shone.
 DJ> -> Imagine a bright star, like Venus, and triple the brightness.

- cut -

 DJ> First of all, you didn't tell what city you saw it in.  As for what you
 DJ> saw, I've got to point something out:
 DJ>    If it looked like a star, there is no way at all that you could
 DJ> estimated how far it was away, except by guessing based on it's apparent
 DJ> movement.  Given the instant acceleration you describe, it sounds like
 DJ> some kind of reflection or diffraction in the atmosphere.

I saw it in Furudal (transl. "Pine Valley"), a small town in the middle region
of Sweden, and I guess you're right about it looking like a star.
You can't estimate the distance to a star, and maybe not to this either, but it
was much more closer than a satellite or a star, and it kept on dropping
these shooting stars on the ground, so I can't accept the idea of it being a
reflection, nor diffraction. And if it was a reflection, how come I wasn't the
only witness? About diffraction, we have these beautiful colors appearing
some nights on the sky (Sorry, don't seem to recall what it's called in English)
that the Swedes call "Northern shine". But whatever I saw, I know that I've
never seen anything like this...


/// -Tommy K.- \\\

--- Xenolink 1.0 Z.3, EmacsXL.4
 * Origin: NoLimit, Furudal +46-258-10071 (2:205/356)

Ä [27] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 84 of 106
 From : Tommy Kellerman                     2:205/356       .îí 05 .åâ 96 20:46
 To   : Gary Warren
 Subj : UFO
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
In a message dated 24-Jan-96 18:11:11, Gary Warren wrote:

 TK> About 7 P.M., the 'object' headed west, so maybe some of you guys will
 TK> catch a glimpse as well?


 GW> Maybe this was when the latest space shuttle flight was heading back home?

Naaah! Ever seen a shuttle breaking in the atmosphere like hitting a brick wall?

 GW> If not, better put in a call to Scully or Mulder's cell phone!  ;D

Gimme the number  :D


/// -Tommy K.- \\\

PS.
   Noticed you had a bar... A beer on the double..
                                                  DS.

--- Xenolink 1.0 Z.3, EmacsXL.4
 * Origin: NoLimit, Furudal +46-258-10071 (2:205/356)

Ä [27] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 85 of 106
 From : Tommy Kellerman                     2:205/356       .îí 05 .åâ 96 23:10
 To   : Owen E. Oulton
 Subj : X-FILES
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
In a message dated 31-Jan-96 20:46:02, Owen E. Oulton wrote:

 FS> syzygy: a pair of things, eps. a pair of opposites

How do you pronounce this word?


/// -Tommy K.- \\\   * Enlighten me *

--- Xenolink 1.0 Z.3, EmacsXL.4
 * Origin: NoLimit, Furudal +46-258-10071 (2:205/356)

Ä [27] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 86 of 106
 From : Tommy Kellerman                     2:205/356       .îí 05 .åâ 96 23:23
 To   : Frank Glover
 Subj : Re: Alien threats?
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
In a message dated 03-Feb-96 22:07:05, Frank Glover wrote:

 FG>    But against terrestrial life forms, we have intelligence and
 FG> technology on our side. (Even if dolphins are sentient, they live in an
 FG> environment, with body forms that don't lend themselves to making
 FG> technology.)

Yes, we have the intelligence and the body required to reach out into the
galaxy, but wouldn't this make us a powerful ally, instead of the enemy?

 FG>   If they should happen to believe in the Hicks/Ripley philosophy  ("Nuke
 FG> em' from orbit. It's the only way to be sure."), then we're  done. And
 FG> indeed, even when we *do* gain a major interstellar travel  capability
 FG> (and all the tech it implies), there's always a possibility  of running
 FG> into someone who will outclass us. It's just that right now,  we're dog
 FG> meat for anyone capable of coming here, if it came to that.

Nuke us? Why would they? We are a quite peaceful race, living in a world which
still has blue oceans and fertile agricultural areas. If they nuked us they
wouldn't have the living world of today before them, just a sterile lifeless
rock. I don't know, but I don't think this is their purpose.



/// -Tommy K.- \\\

--- Xenolink 1.0 Z.3, EmacsXL.4
 * Origin: NoLimit, Furudal +46-258-10071 (2:205/356)

Ä [27] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 87 of 106
 From : Nicolai Shapero                     1:102/524       .cê 11 .åâ 96 00:28
 To   : Christian Raven
 Subj : Re: Star Trek
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Feb 07 18:48>, Christian Raven (1:393/7@fido) wrote to Ecarey:

 CR>psychologically and physically.  this is quite obvious, as (a)
 CR>there has never been a female president in the leading country of
 CR>the world, and (b) there has NEVER been a female weight-lifter
 CR>even NEARLY as strong as a male.  women are physically weaker,
 CR>and mentally less rational, the latter which could be obviously
 CR>argued to a standstill... although there are many signs of this.

Great Britain:  Margaret Thatcher. (Prime Minister)
Israel:  Golda Meir.  (Prime Minister)
There are other countries that have been ruled by women in this century.

Mentally less rational?  Horse hockey.

Weaker, well...NASA studies have shown that, all other factors being equal
(primarily training) women are able to remain conscious at higher stress and
pain levels than men, but men are able to remain functional (able to do other
things besides just remain conscious) at higher stress and pain levels than
women.  BUT, and it is a big but, a trained woman is so far superior to an
untrained man that the results aren't even funny.

Men tend to have greater upper body strength than women.  But women tend to live
longer than men (their basic constitutions tend to be better, and their systems
are designed for "dual support"...funny about that...and tend to be just a wee
bit tougher over the long haul).

-- Nicolai Shapero, the Mad Russian Sysop of StormGate Aerie

--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [27] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 88 of 106
 From : Nicolai Shapero                     1:102/524       .cê 11 .åâ 96 00:17
 To   : Christian Raven
 Subj : Re: Star Trek Sexism
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Feb 07 18:59>, Christian Raven (1:393/7@fido) wrote to Robert Lidgren:

 CR>i dont care what else anyone has to say, if you want to argue
 CR>with what i just said, i'm not even going to bother to reply,
 CR>because i know that it is factual. xxx

It isn't what we don't know that hurts us; it's what we know that isn't so...

-- Nicolai Shapero, the Mad Russian Sysop of StormGate Aerie

--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [27] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 89 of 106
 From : Nicolai Shapero                     1:102/524       .cê 11 .åâ 96 00:23
 To   : Gerry Normandeau
 Subj : The Twelve Monkies
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Feb 06 18:13>, Gerry Normandeau (1:163/430) wrote to All:

 GN>Hi all. I have a real brain buster for you. I have recently
 GN>watched the movie The Twelve Monkies. And I must say it was
 GN>another winner from our friend Terri Gillium.
 GN> What I want to ask is, does anyone out there remembur the
 GN>name of the movie that this film is based on? I remembur seeing
 GN>it a long time ago on TVO's Magic Shadows with Elwy Yost. Now
 GN>this
 GN>dates me for those who remember! :)
 GN> The film was from France. It was filmed as a series of still
 GN>photos with a naration. All I can remembur is that it began
 GN>with a little boy witnesing a runnung man being shot down, Then
 GN>for some reason war brakes out, and the world is destroyed excep
 GN>for a handfull of survivors. The hero of the film, who was the
 GN>boy at the begining is scent back in time to try and stop what
 GN>happened but like in the Twelve Monkies is shot down in front of
 GN>the
 GN>little boy he was. And ashe dies the movie ends.
 GN> If any one can remembur this movie and its name please let me
 GN>know!
 GN>           Thanks All!

The movie was, IIRC, entitled LA JETTE.  A really strange time travel thing
wherein our protagonist ends up getting a power source from his own future and
being murdered in the past (viewed by himself).  Quite bizarre.

-- Nicolai Shapero, the Mad Russian Sysop of StormGate Aerie

--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [27] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 90 of 106
 From : Nicolai Shapero                     1:102/524       .cê 11 .åâ 96 00:27
 To   : David Schumaker
 Subj : Used computers/equipment need for Gambian school
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Feb 02 12:34>, David Schumaker (1:120/125) wrote to All:

 DS>             USED COMPUTERS/EQUIPMENT NEED FOR GAMBIAN SCHOOL

Excuse me, please, but the content of this message had absolutely NOTHING to do
with the subject of this conference.

Do not do this again.

-- Nicolai Shapero, Moderator of the SFFAN echo

--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [27] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 91 of 106
 From : Ecarey                              1:101/230       .åò 08 .åâ 96 11:20
 To   : Brion Lienhart
 Subj : GULLIVER'S TRAVELS
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 > OK, so who else watched this? I liked it a lot. At first the "at
 > home" scenes got in the way, but they seemed to fit in better in the
 > second half. It must have been way too long since I last read it
 > (ok, nearly 20 years), but I couldn't remember any of the stuff
 > between him leaving the island of Laputa and landing in the land of
 > the Wymnynmnynns (sp?).

I taped it and watched the first half last night - loved it.

--- FLAME v1.0
 * Origin: Withouta Net - Drop In Anytime! - 617/846-5416 (1:101/230)

Ä [27] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 92 of 106
 From : ROBERT LIDGREN                      1:134/10        .ÿò 09 .åâ 96 22:40
 To   : CHRISTIAN RAVEN
 Subj : NO FACTS
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
-> RL> Oh well, it is true there are more STRONG women characters in science
-> RL> fiction
-> RL> now and, you know what, there have been strong women all through history
-> -
-> This is ridiculous... the entire point is that there have been FAR more male
-> hunters, FAR more male presidents, FAR more male captains, FAR more male
-> providers, and that by physically examining women it is OBVIOUS that they
-> have evolved  in the fashion they have due to FAR less workload than men..
-> thats it.  i dont care what else anyone has to say, if you want to argue
-> with what i just said, i'm not even going to bother to reply, because i know
-> that it is factual. xxx

FAR LESS WORKLOAD!  What planet have you been living on?  This has no bais in
fact.  Just because men have bneen able to lift a heavier rock than women
doesn't negate the fact that women lift smaller rocks ALL DAY LONG.

Certainly, in the Third World today, women tend to do most of the grunt work
due to their subservient postions.

Saying that "you don't care what anyone eslse has to say" speaks volumes about
the CONTENT OF YOUR ARGUMENT - very, very weak!  Listen Christian, I wrote you
a long message provinging a large number of observations.  The very fact you
couldn't deal with any of them in a satisfactory manner betrays the weakness of
your intellectual position.  Oh well, as you say, you are "not going to argue."
I understand, it's difficult to argue when there is so little SUBSTANCE to your
argument.  I don't mind that you disagree - it's meaningless.  Most people here
at least back up what they have to say and let the chips fall.

"Far less workload" eh?  Ever check out what "work" your own mother has done in
her lifetime?  Sheesh!

I would say that, overall, the workload for men and women has been equivalent
and certainly pound-for-pound women SEEM to do more.

I am not minimizing the contributions of men one iota by saying this - it has
been a giant one but not always all that constructive - you don't often see
wars and battles being orchestrated by women, do you.  Somehow, I don't think
there were very many women "running" Adolph Hitler's HOLOCAUST either - no, an
example of "Men's work!"

I think I still detect thinly-veiled mysogyny.
--- PCBoard 15.2
 * Origin: 32 lines 40 Gig BBS, Realtime InterNet SLIP (403)299-9900 (1:134/10)

Ä [27] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 93 of 106
 From : Chris Ogniben                       1:2604/568      .òp 06 .åâ 96 11:41
 To   : Todd Sullivan
 Subj : BS!!
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

  Well one thing is for sure, is that our real enemy is ourselves.  And
that our future only shows that death is going to knock at our door, as
the planet dies away.  And i like to talk about something, and not
compare us humans to alien lifeforms that have the drive to take over
our planet.  And that is, the factor that we humans are the worst forms
of life in the entire universe.  Number one factor is that we attack
each other, and we kill off wild animals and kill animals at will to
feed ourselves.  Of course there is a difference.  One is survival, and
the other one is for profit.  But, none the less we are a brutal race,
and the military shows it, where men and women are trained to kill and
to survive.  And during the times that we live in, i say not to take
that training away from them, since it is wrong.  But, i know that if
you take our race and put it up with other life forms of race that
exist out there, i can assure you that the human race is crap, and
everything else is worth living.  I mean, i think that we just evolued
from whatever we were in the past, and became more like what we were in
the past.  Stupid, savage killers that no matter which people choose to
unleash the savageness and kill one or more people, that all the people
have the ability to kill another.  With a weapon or with their fists.
And that is why being a human, is just saying to the universe of space,
i am crap, but, i am alive and have to live with it.


--- WM v3.11/93-0947
 * Origin: Waterside BBS - NJ - (201) 641-5375 28.8k  (1:2604/568)

Ä [27] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 94 of 106
 From : Chris Ogniben                       1:2604/568      .òp 06 .åâ 96 11:43
 To   : Kay Shapero
 Subj : Cybersex
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

  Let's just say that i don't agree with certain people that have to
bring in topics, exspecially about cybersex.  I mean, at least they
could  have talked about it in a more civil manner.  Where they don't
view women as objects and slabs of meat.  The point here is, that we
are talking about virtual reality, and i have nothing against talking
about it in here.  But, to bring in discussions that may belong to an
adult forum, would be better off than to bring them in here, where all
the gonna get, is people telling how stupid they are.


--- WM v3.11/93-0947
 * Origin: Waterside BBS - NJ - (201) 641-5375 28.8k  (1:2604/568)

Ä [27] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 95 of 106
 From : Mark Jones                          1:105/302.47    .åò 08 .åâ 96 14:10
 To   : Darre LuAllen
 Subj : Bs!!
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On (07 Feb 96) Darre LuAllen wrote to Todd Sullivan...

 DL>  TS> Your idea that we're even worth bothering with to an
 DL>  TS> interstellar empire is ludicrous....

 DL> I can think of three reasons, all bad: 1) Cheap (read slave)
 DL> labor, 2) free land (like they couldn't find a better planet),
 DL> and 3) food (remember the original "V" TV movies?)
 DL>
 DL>  Sorry for butting in.

Don't apologize--that's what the echo is for!

Cheap labor?  I don't think so.  Interstellar travel is probably going
to be exceptionally difficult--especially if FTL never pans
out--no matter how advanced your technology is.  If you've got the
industrial base to build a fleet of interstellar warships, you can
probably build a robotic (or at least highly mechanized) economy.  You
won't *need* aliens for brute labor.

Land might be the one valuable commodity--especially if it turns out
that all the sentient beings in the universe require *same* sort of
environment (i.e., earthlike).  The only way to get more of it would
be to discover it (subjugating or exterminating the natives, if any)
or to build it, either by terraforming unsuitable worlds or building
colonies in space from scratch.

--- PPoint 1.78
 * Origin: Folcroft Sanitarium (hsmith@cure.com) (1:105/302.47)

Ä [27] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 96 of 106
 From : Owen E. Oulton                      1:243/45        .óá 10 .åâ 96 13:48
 To   : Nicolai Shapero
 Subj : Re: Star Trek Generations
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 FG> I think wecan assumethere will be an Enterprise-E...one wonders what it
 FG> will look like?

 NS> We've already seen what it's going to look like...remember ALL GOOD
 NS> THINGS?  (Three nacelles, yet...)

Nope, sorry, that was the E-D in an alternate future where it hadn't been
destroyed.  Check the scene where it zooms upward through the wreckage of the
Klingon ship it has just destroyed - NCC-1701-D is clearly marked on the hull.

CFN, O

--- Maximus 2.01wb
 * Origin: Pandora's Box, Ottawa, Ont. 613-829-1209 (1:243/45)

Ä [27] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 97 of 106
 From : Todd Sullivan                       1:202/720.3     .ÿò 09 .åâ 96 16:41
 To   : Mark Jones
 Subj : Alien threats?
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
While substituting for Q, Mark Jones took extreme delight in saying to Frank
Glover, "You'll do anything I say?"  Frank quailed when the words "Alien
threats?" were uttered.

 FG>>    But extraterrestrials who can come here, by definition are at least
 FG>> as intelligent as us, with technology superior to ours, since we are
 FG>> luck), but otherwise we would clearly survive at *their* sufferance.

 MJ>     No argument.  But the moron in question seems to think that any
 MJ> aliens who come knocking on our door will *necessarily* be physically
 MJ> stronger (by a wide margin) than we are.  Which is a load of steaming
 MJ> ****, frankly.  Nobody knows.
 MJ>     That any aliens who can cross interstellar space to kick sand in
 MJ> our faces will be more advanced scientifically than we are I don't

I most of the movies along those lines (War of the Worlds, Earth Vs the
Flying Saucers), all the attackers have had highly-advanced technology, but
had physical problems dealing with our environment, either biological or
through our own refusal to go quietly.

The point has always been superior technology, but some flaw stopped them.
I can't see Chris' point, as he's as ignorant as we are, but--apparently--
refuses to see that.

Todd Sullivan

... "He who knows others is wise;
    He who knows himself is enlightened." --Lao-Tzu

-*- ASTG 1.9

--- Spot 1.3a Unregistered
 * Origin: Todd's Spot in the Continuum (1:202/720.3)

Ä [27] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 98 of 106
 From : Frank Swarbrick                     1:104/825       .óá 10 .åâ 96 16:12
 To   : Frank Glover
 Subj : Re: X-FILES
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12  92-0022
On 02-08-96  20:45 my Very Good Friend Frank Glover said:

 RL>  BTW, I have heard from some people that they hate it when we get a
 RL>  Mulder
 RL>  "voice-over."  What do you think?  I kind of like it because
 RL>  voice-overs are
 RL>  the only way to get DIRECTLY inside a character's thinking/feeling
 RL>  processes.
 FG>
 FG> I think it's a good idea as well. It would be interesting to hear a
 FG> Scully voice-over sometime, if the episode was a particularly moving
 FG> one for her.

Scully often does voiceovers.  I can't think of any in particular off
hand, but then I can't think of any Mulder voice overs off hand
either.

Well, actually I can.  Scully did a voiceover at the end of "End
Game," the second part of the alien shapeshifter assassin episode.
She was talking about how it was that technology, medicine and science
saved Mulder (after he was left in the freezing in the arctic).  It
was really used to justify how she could remain a sceptic after all
she had seen.  I know she's done others as well.

        Frank

... There was a fish...in the percolator.
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12
 * Origin: The Bailey Information Exchange BBS, 28.8k v.fc  (1:104/825.0)

Ä [27] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 99 of 106
 From : Michael Baker                       1:108/430       .cê 11 .åâ 96 00:04
 To   : All
 Subj : files
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: FastEcho 1.40 8380
The Dead Zone at Has one of the Largest Sci-FI file areas you've ever seen!.
..tons of sound files, gifs, programs, 1960's themes ect. There are a couple
of ways you can get these files:

           1. Call at 513-521-0705 and log on using " Guest " as your
           name/handel...then " Guest " again for the password.
           2. Freq " SF " for a file list of all the SF files, then freq
           the " filename " to receive the files you want.

 we are updating these files weekly and you should call/freq regularly to
 get any updates, and if there is anything you want send me a message and
 I'll look for the file for you.

          The Dead Zone
          1:108/430
          Krall@one.net



... "Did the table do something to offend you, Worf?" - Troi
--- Blue Wave v2.12
 * Origin: The Dead Zone " Earth2..B5..Startrek..Dr Who.." (1:108/430)

Ä [27] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 100 of 106
 From : Owen E. Oulton                      1:243/45        .óá 10 .åâ 96 19:00
 To   : All
 Subj : Highlander 2: The Sickening
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
While at a video store the other day, I noticed a Director's Cut of Highlander
2: The Quickening, labeled Renegade Version.  It supposedly has 16 minutes that
was cut from the theatrical release of The Sickening.  Has anyone seen this
version, and is it worth looking at?  Does it turn The Sickening into anything
remoptely resembling a watchable movie?

CFN, O

--- Maximus 2.01wb
 * Origin: Pandora's Box, Ottawa, Ont. 613-829-1209 (1:243/45)

Ä [27] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 101 of 106
 From : Owen E. Oulton                      1:243/45        .óá 10 .åâ 96 19:07
 To   : Todd Sullivan
 Subj : Star Trek Generations
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

FG> Enterprise-E...one wonders what it will look like?

 TS> Seems to me the ship we say leaving orbit was a possibility.

What the Nebula Class ship.  Probably not.

 TS> In the TNG Tech Manual, the next class is the Nova; one might assume
 TS> that was it, or another new design.

That's not exactly what the ST:TNG TM says.  The relevant passage is excerpted
below...

"17.2 FUTURE DIRECTIONS: THE ROAD TO 1701-E

   "Twenty years from now, the Galaxy class USS Enterprise will still be in
the first phase of her operational lifetime...  Eventually, the Galaxy class

will be superseded with a new space vehicle whose design will be as
revolutionary as that of the Enterprise is today.  One starship in the new
class may even be the sixth to bear the name Enterprise, the NCC-1701-E.
   "Starfleet Command, through its Advanced Starship Design Bureau, is
already considering concepts for the proposed Nova class..."

The above is one of the most persistantly misunderstood passages put into print.
The Nova Class is a preliminary design study for a starship class which won't
even be designed for several decades.  That the E-E *might* be of the class was
based on the idea that the E-D would not need to be replaced until then.  Of
course, since it was destroyed, it needs to be replaced a lot earlier than
anticipated.  However, it's a pretty good bet that it won't be a Nova Class.

CFN, O

--- Maximus 2.01wb
 * Origin: Pandora's Box, Ottawa, Ont. 613-829-1209 (1:243/45)

Ä [27] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 102 of 106
 From : David Little                        1:106/7315      .pä 07 .åâ 96 08:23
 To   : The Raven
 Subj : [1/5] Highlander
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 >>> Part 1 of 5...

-=< The used the Jedi Mind Trick on me! >=-

 TR> Because of my recent disk crash, I no longer have my Immortals
 TR> list from the series.  If anyone has a copy of it, could you please
 TR> send me a copy?  I'd greatly appreciate it.

        It doesn't contain last season's, but this is what I got:


     This is a list of Immortals from the films and the television series.
This list will be updated on a weekly basis after every new episode.
     The ages listed for the immortals are, in most cases, estimates given
from "flashback" appearances and dialog from the various episodes.  Where
exact ages have been shown, I list those.  In the case of deceased Immortals,
ages listed are at the time of death.
     No characters from that abortion of a film "Highlander 2" will ever find
a place on this list with the exception of Connor MacLeod and Ramirez. No
characters from that abortion of a cartoon on USA will ever appear, either.


Ballin, Andrew
Actor:  Tom Butler                Age:          Unknown
Status:  Deceased                 Beheaded By:  Duncan MacLeod
First Appearance:  "Eyewitness"
Notes:  Murdered former lover when she discovered his Immortality.


Bellian, Everett
Actor:  Peter Guiness            Age:  Unknown
Status:  Alive
First Appearance:  "Nowhere to Run"
Notes:  French army Colonel who saught revenge after his adopted daughter
   was raped.


Blaine, Zachary
Actor:  Jason Isaacs             Age:  100+
Status:  Deceased                Beheaded By:  Amanda Darieux
First Appearance:  "The Lady And The Tiger"
Notes:  Former partner of Amanda Deriaux.


Bouchet, Pierre
Actor:  Louis Bertignac          Age:  Unknown
Status:  Deceased                Beheaded By:  Guillotine
First Appearance:  "Highlander:  The Final Dimension" (Film)
Notes:  Friend of Connor's who gave himself up to the guillotine in Connor's
   stead during the French revolution.


Brody, Frank
Actor:  Alf Humphreys            Age:  Unknown
Status:  Deceased                Beheaded By:  Kenny
First Appearance:  "The Lamb"
Note:  Killed by Kenny while teaching him how to fly-fish.


Browning, Charles
Actor:  Godfrey James            Age:  Unknown
Status:  Deceased                Beheaded By:  Duncan MacLeod
First Appearance:  "Counterfeit, Part 2"
Notes:  Old man who saved Duncan from the headsman, only to try to take
   Duncan's head while Duncan was passed out drunk.


Cage
Actor:  Richard Lynch            Age:  105+
Status:  Alive
First Appearance:  "Blind Faith"
Notes:  Former foe of Duncan's who had a religious conversion and now
   disavows all violence.  Lead a cult.


Cahill, Alfred
Actor:  Martin Kemp              Age:  37
Status:  Deceased                Beheaded By:  Duncan MacLeod
First Appearance:  "Avenging Angel"
Notes:  Insane former SAS commando who murdered several Parisian
   prostitutes.


Carbassa, Benny
Actor:  Tony Rosato              Age:  100+
Status:  Alive
First Appearance:  "Vendetta"
Notes:  Small time hood befriended by Duncan in the 1920's.


Ceirdwyn
Actor:  Kim Johnston Ulrich      Age:  1927+
Status:  Alive
First Appearance:  "Take Back The Night"
Notes:  Pict warrior woman who seeks revenge after her husband is murdered.


Chandler, Grace
Actor:  Julia Stemberger         Age:  320+
Status:  Alive
First Appearance:  "Saving Grace"
Notes:  Doctor/midwife obsessively pursued by Carlos Sandarro.


Christian, Michael
Actor:  Barry Pepper             Age:  47
Status:  Deceased                Beheaded By:  Duncan MacLeod
First Appearance:  "They Also Serve"
Notes:  Assisted by a Watcher who had fallen in love with him.


Cole, Caleb
Actor:  Marc Singer              Age:  Unknown
Status:  Deceased                Beheaded By:  Duncan MacLeod
First Appearance:  "Mountain Men"
Notes:  Kidnapped Tessa.  Was the first Immortal seen to use something
   other than a sword in combat (he used a German battleaxe).


Constantine, Marcus
Actor:  James Faulkner           Age:  2000+
Status:  Alive
First Appearance:  "Pharoh's Daughter"
Notes:  Roman general during the time of Cleopatra's reign.  Former lover
   of Nefertiri.


Crowley, Howard
Actor:  John Novack              Age:  Unknown
Status:  Deceased                Beheaded By:  Duncan MacLeod
First Appearance:  "Innocent Man"
Notes:  Small-town Sheriff.


Cullen, Brian
Actor:  John Pyper Ferguson      Age:  210+
Status:  Deceased                Beheaded By:  Duncan MacLeod
First Appearance:  "Courage"
Notes:  By reputation, one of the best swordsmen in the world.  Lost his
   nerve for the fight and turned to drugs to bolster his courage.


Daimler, Ernst
Actor:  Andrew Woodall           Age:  85+
Deceased:  Deceased              Beheaded By:  Duncan MacLeod
First Appearance:  "Mortal Sins"
Notes:  Former Nazi major turned leader of an Aryan Supremicist group.


Darieux, Amanda
Actor:  Elizabeth Gracen         Age:  1164
Status:  Alive
First Appearance:  "The Lady And The Tiger"
Notes:  Former student of Rebecca Horne.  Former jewel thief and circus
   acrobat.  Current lover of Duncan MacLeod.  Knows both who Methos is
   and who the Watchers are.


Darius
Actor:  Werner Stocker           Age:  2000+
Status:  Deceased                Beheaded By:  The Hunters
First Appearance:  "Band of Brothers"
Notes:  Ancient general who killed a priest at the gates of Paris many
   centuries ago, then abruptly gave up violence and retired to the Church.
   Killed by mortals on Holy Ground.


de Bourgogne, Michel
Actor:  Franck Dubosc            Age:  Unknown
Status:  Deceased                Beheaded By:  Duncan MacLeod
First Appearance:  "Unholy Alliance, Part 1"
Notes:  French warrior who interrupted Duncan MacLeod while Duncan was
   giving a young English lord a chess lesson.


Desiree, Lucas
Actor:  Victor Young             Age:  165+
Status:  Deceased                Beheaded By:  Howard Crowley
First Appearance:  "Innocent Man"
Notes:  Confederate Captain who encountered a defenseless Duncan and let
   him go free.


Devereux
Actor:  Eli Gaby                 Age:  220+
Status:  Deceased                Beheaded By:  Felice Martin
First Appearance:  "Free Fall"
Notes:  Veangeful immortal seeking to kill Felice Martin.


Devlin, Annie
Actor:  Sheena Easton            Age:  100+
Status:  Alive
First Appearance:  "Eye For An Eye"
Notes:  Irish Republican Army terrorist who seeks revenge against Richie

 >>> Continued to next message...

--- FreeMail & Blue Wave/DOS v2.21
 * Origin: The Wizard's Realm ** (713) 946-7315 ** (1:106/7315)

Ä [27] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 103 of 106
 From : David Little                        1:106/7315      .pä 07 .åâ 96 08:23
 To   : The Raven
 Subj : [2/5] Highlander
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 >>> Part 2 of 5...

   after her husband is killed during a botched assassination.


Drakov
Actor:  Peter Firth              Age:  120+
Status:  Deceased                Beheaded By:  Duncan MacLeod
First Appearance:  "The Warmonger"
Notes:  Behind-The-Scenes power-broker who seeks to extend hostile relations
   between his nation and its enemies.


Durgan, John
Actor:  Brion James              Age:  217+
Status:  Deceased                Beheaded By:   Duncan MacLeod
First Appearance:  "The Cross of St. Antoine"
Notes:  Murderous and self-educated Immortal who murders Joe Dawson's
   girlfriend.


el-Kahir, Hamza
Actor:  John Suda                Age:  352+
Status:  Deceased                Beheaded By:  Xavier St. Cloud
First Appearance:  "Finale, Part 1"
Notes:  Friend of Duncan's who fought Xavier St. Cloud and died to keep him
   (St. Cloud) from killing Duncan.


Fasil, Irman
Actor:  Peter Diamond            Age:  Unknown
Status:  Deceased                Beheaded By:  Connor MacLeod
First Appearance:  "Highlander" (film)
Notes:  Immortal killed by Connor in the parking garage at the beginning of
   the film.


FitzCairn, Hugh
Actor:  Roger Daltrey            Age:  600+
Status:  Deceased                Beheaded By:  Kallas
First Appearance:  "The Hunters"
Notes:  Foppish friend of Duncan's who brought the news of The Hunters to
   Duncan.  Was killed on a barge in the sewers beneath Paris.


Gallen, Anthony
Actor:  Roddy Piper              Age:  Unknown
Status:  Deceased                Beheaded By:  Duncan MacLeod
First Appearance:  "An Epitaph for Tommy"
Notes:  Immortal assassin hired to murder a newspaper magnate by the
   magnate's daughter.


Garrick, John
Actor:  Garwin Sanford           Age:  360+
Status:  Deceased                Beheaded By:  Duncan MacLeod
First Appearance:  "Shadows"
Notes:  Psychic Immortal who projected his nightmares into Duncan's mind.
   Killed in Duncan's apartment over the dojo.


Grayson
Actor:  James Horan              Age:  1800+
Status:  Deceased                Beheaded By:  Duncan MacLeod
First Appearance:  "Band of Brothers"
Notes:  Former follower of Darius.  Killed on a sulfur boat in Seacouver
   bay.


Gregor
Actor:  Joel Wyner               Age:  130+
Status:  Alive
First Appearance:  "Studies in Light"
Notes:  Nihilistic photographer who likes to play death-games with mortals.


Gris, Herbert
Actor:  No Credit Given          Age:  225+
Status:  Alive
First Appearance:  "Finale, Part 2"
Notes:  Only appears in the Watcher database.  Is used by Christine Saltzer
   to convince newspaper editor Patrick Clancy of the existance of Immortals.
   Uses the alias "Graydon Hammond" in the modern day.


Horne, Rebecca
Actor:  Nadia Cameron            Age:  1500+
Status:  Deceased                Beheaded By:  Luther
First Appearance:  "Legacy"
Note:  Teacher of Amanda, Henri Valjean, and Luther.  Traded her life for
   that of her mortal husband.


Hyde, Martin
Actor:  Michael Siberry          Age:  400+
Status:  Deceased                Beheaded By:  Duncan MacLeod
First Appearance:  "Prodigal Son, Part 1"
Notes:  Hunted older Immortals by tricking their students into leading him
   right to them.


James
Actor:  Adrian Hughes            Age:  Unknown
Status:  Deceased                Beheaded By:  Pallin Wolf
First Appearance:  "The Darkness"
NOTE:  Immortal tricked into going into the "darkroom".  Pallin Wolf was a
   Hunter, not an Immortal.


Kagan, Lucas
Actor:  Paudge Behan             Age:  90
Status:  Deceased                Beheaded By:  Duncan MacLeod
First Appearance:  "Reasonable Doubt"
Notes:  Found by his Tarsis in the streets of Dublin while still a child.
   Tarsis shot him when he was 25 and taught him to be a thief.  Called his
   beheading "an execution".


Kalas
Actor:  David Robb               Age:  380+
Status:  Deceased                Beheaded By:  Duncan MacLeod
First Appearance:  "Song of the Executioner"
Notes:  Expert forger and operatic tenor.  Lost his singing voice when Duncan
   slashed his throat with a piece of glass.  Swore to take everything Duncan
   cared for away from him.  Was beheaded on the Eiffel Tower.


Kane
Actor:  Mario Van Peebles        Age:  3000+
Status:  Deceased                Beheaded By:  Connor MacLeod
First Appearance:  "Highlander:  The Final Dimension" (film)
Notes:  Buried under a mountain in Japan for 300 years.


Karros, Paul
Actor:  Miguel Fernandes         Age:  2100+
Status:  Deceased                Beheaded By:  Duncan MacLeod
First Appearance:  "The Revolutionary"
Notes:  Fought by the side of Spartacus.  Balkan revolutionary.  Beheaded on
   top of an ammunition dump.


Kastagir, Sunda
Actor:  Hugh Quarshie            Age:  250+
Status:  Deceased                Beheaded By:  The Kurgan
First Appearance:  "Highlander" (film)
Notes:  Meets Connor Macleod on the bridge in New York and offers him some
   "boom-boom".  Beheaded by the Kurgan, making Connor MacLeod and the Kurgan
   the last two.


Kenny
Actor:  Myles Ferguson           Age:  814
Status:  Alive
First Appearance:  "The Lamb"
Notes:  Ancient Immortal trapped in the body of a ten year old.  Kills kindly
   Immortals who take him in to "protect" him.


Kent, Michael
Actor:  Stephen McHattie         Age:  Unknown
Status:  Deceased                Beheaded By:  Duncan MacLeod
First Appearance:  "The Samurai"
Notes:  Immortal who mudered his Japanese wife's lover; she runs to Duncan
   for assistance.


Keogh, David
Actor:  Cameron Bancroft         Age:  220+
Status:  Alive
First Appearance:  "Obsession"
Notes:  Obsessive Immortal who drives his "fiance" to suicide.


Kern
Actor:  Randall "Tex" Cobb       Age:  500+
Status:  Deceased                Beheaded By:  Duncan MacLeod
First Appearance:  "Line of Fire"
Notes:  Former cavalry scout.  Duncan beheads him with a spear.


Korolus, Marcus
Actor:  John Hertzler            Age:  350+
Status:  Deceased                Beheaded By:  Duncan MacLeod
First Appearance:  "See No Evil"
Notes:  Immortal serial killer.  Duncan kills him in a theatre.


Kristov
Actor:  Alexis Daniel            Age:  269+
Status:  Deceased                Beheaded By:  Richie Ryan
First Appearance:  "Testimony"
Notes:  Cossack drug dealer and impressionist artist.  Threatens to kill
   Richie if Duncan doesn't kill a witness against him.  Richie's killing
   stroke is not shown on screen.

 >>> Continued to next message...

--- FreeMail & Blue Wave/DOS v2.21
 * Origin: The Wizard's Realm ** (713) 946-7315 ** (1:106/7315)

Ä [27] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 104 of 106
 From : David Little                        1:106/7315      .pä 07 .åâ 96 08:23
 To   : The Raven
 Subj : [3/5] Highlander
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 >>> Part 3 of 5...



The Kurgan
Actor:  Clancy Brown             Age:  7000+
Status:  Deceased                Beheaded By:  Connor MacLeod
First Appearance:  "Highlander" (film)
Notes:  The original Highlander villain.  In the first film, Connor kills
   him to claim The Prize.


Kurlow, Lyman
Actor:  Anthony DeLongis         Age:  230+
Status:  Deceased                Beheaded By:  Duncan MacLeod
First Appearance:  "Blackmail"
Notes:  Long-time partner of Peter Matlin.


Kuyler
Actor:  Peter Howitt             Age:  235+
Status:  Deceased                Beheaded By:  Duncan MacLeod
Status:  "For Evil's Sake"
Notes:  Acrobat/Mime/Assassin driven insane by long-time absynthe addiction.


Laszlo, Zoltan
Actor:  Mark Acheson             Age:  Unknown
Status:  Alive
First Appearance:  "Courage"
Notes:  Immortal who seeks to confront Brian Cullen on the docks in 1890's
   San Francisco; Cullen gives him to Duncan "as a gift", but Duncan refuses.


Legris, Anton
Actor:  Philippe Agael           Age:  Unknown
Status:  Deceased                Beheaded By:  Xavier St. Cloud
First Appearance:  "Unholy Alliance, Part 1"
Notes:  Victim of St. Cloud's mortal mercenaries.  Killed in Paris.


Luther
Actor:  Emile Abossolo M'bo      Age:  Unknown
Status:  Deceased                Beheaded By:  Duncan MacLeod
First Appearance:  "Legacy"
Notes:  Former student of Rebecca Horne, whom he kills.  Seeks all of the
   pieces of the Eternity Crystal.


MacLeod, Connor
Actor:  Christopher Lambert      Age:  477
Status:  Alive
First Appearance:  "Highlander" (film)
Notes:  The original Immortal.  Won The Prize in the first film by killing
   The Kurgan.  Mentor and kinsman to Duncan MacLeod.


MacLeod, Duncan
Actor:  Adrian Paul              Age:  402
Status:  Alive
First Appearance:  "The Gathering"
Notes:  Hero of the television series.  Mentor to Richie Ryan, lover of
   Amanda Darieux, kinsman to Connor MacLeod.


Mako
Actor:  Jonathan Banks           Age:  600+
Status:  Deceased                Beheaded By:  Richie Ryan
First Appearance:  "Under Color Of Authority"
Notes:  Immortal obsessed with the law.  Tracks criminals relentlessly.
   Killed after being trapped in a piece of stage decoration.


Martin, Felice
Actor:  Joan Jett                Age:  220+
Status:  Alive
First Appearance:  "Free Fall"
Notes:  Pretended to be a neonate Immortal.  Murdered wife and adopted child
   of Devereaux.


Matlin, Peter
Actor:  Bill Croft               Age:  240+
Status:  Deceased                Beheaded By:  Duncan MacLeod
First Appearance:  "Blackmail"
Notes:  Parter of Lyman Kurlow.  His beheading is caught on videotape by a
   mortal.


Methos
Actor:  Peter Wingfield          Age:  10,000+
Status:  Alive
First Appearance:  "Methos"
Notes:  The oldest immortal.  A member of the watchers under the name "Adam
   Pierson".


Moore, Michael
Actor:  Geraint Wyn-Davies       Age:  100+
Status:  Deceased                Beheaded By:  Duncan MacLeod
First Appearance:  "Turnabout"
Notes:  Suffered from Multiple-Personality Disorder, and frequently acted
   as "Quentin Barnes".


Nakano
Actor:  Mako                     Age:  1000+
Status:  Deceased                Beheaded By:  Kane
First Appearance:  "Highlander:  The Final Dimension" (film)
Notes:  Japanese sorceror who taught Connor the arts of swordmaking.


Nefertiri
Actor:  Nia Peeples              Age:  2000+
Status:  Deceased                Beheaded By:  Duncan MacLeod
First Appearance:  "Pharoh's Daughter"
Notes:  Egyptian.  Former handmaiden of Cleopatra; psychotically obsessed
   with revenge against Marcus Constantine, whom she blames for Cleopatra's
   suicide.


"Old Carl"
Actor:  John Dennis Johnston     Age:  Unknown
Status:  Deceased                Beheaded By:  Caleb Cole
First Appearance:  "Mountain Men"
Notes:  Possibly insane mountain man who taught Duncan MacLeod all he knew
   about tracking in return for learning how to fight.


Paul
Actor:  Eugene Lipinski          Age:  400+
Status:  Deceased                Beheaded By:  Kallas
First Appearance:  "Song of the Executioner"
Notes:  Monk who ran a "sanctuary for Immortals" in a monastery.  Member of
   a troup of performing monks (singing Gregorian chants).  Killed on stage.


Piton, Gabriel
Actor:  Nigel Terry              Age:  250+
Status:  Deceased                Beheaded By:  Duncan MacLeod
First Appearance:  "Eye of the Beholder"
Notes:  Fashion designer and art thief.  Murders Richie Ryan's female friend.


Quince, Slan
Actor:  Richard Moll             Age:  Unknown
Status:  Deceased                Beheaded By:  Duncan MacLeod
First Appearance:  "The Gathering"
Notes:  The original TV series villain.  Has single-shot gun built into the
   haft of his sword.


Ramirez, Juan Sanchez Villa-Lobos
Actor:  Sean Connery             Age:  2437
Status:  Deceased                Beheaded By:  The Kurgan
First Appearance:  "Highlander" (film)
Notes:  Mentor to Connor MacLeod.  Killed near the top of Connor's castle.


Reinhardt, Walter
Actor:  Christoph Ohrt           Age:  300+
Status:  Deceased                Beheaded By:  Duncan MacLeod
First Appearance:  "Revenge is Sweet"
Notes:  Former highwayman.  Used his girlfriend as a pawn against Duncan.


Robinson, Carl
Actor:  Bruce Young              Age:  177
Status:  Alive
First Appearance:  "Run For Your Life"
Notes:  Former slave.  Saved from lynching by Duncan MacLeod.  Former major
   league baseball player, now political activist.


Ross, Dallman
Actor:  Eric Keenleyside         Age:  Unknown
Status:  Deceased                Beheaded By:  Kenny
First Appearance:  "The Lamb"
Notes:  Sought revenge against Kenny after Kenny mudered his mortal wife.
   Beheaded from behind, by surprise.


Ryan, Richie
Actor:  Stan Kirsch              Age:  20
Status:  Alive
First Appearance:  "The Gathering"
Notes:  Student of Duncan MacLeod.  Richie Ryan did not actually become
   Immortal until "The Darkness".


Sean
Actor:  Jesse Moss               Age:  Unknown
Status:  Deceased                Beheaded By:  Unknown
First Appearance:  "The Lamb"
Notes:  Union drummer boy.  Physically a teen-ager.

 >>> Continued to next message...

--- FreeMail & Blue Wave/DOS v2.21
 * Origin: The Wizard's Realm ** (713) 946-7315 ** (1:106/7315)

Ä [27] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 105 of 106
 From : David Little                        1:106/7315      .pä 07 .åâ 96 08:23
 To   : The Raven
 Subj : [4/5] Highlander
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 >>> Part 4 of 5...



Segur
Actor:  Nicolas Chagrin          Age:  150+
Status:  Deceased                Beheaded By:  Martin Hyde
First Appearance:  "Prodigal Son"
Notes:  Mentor to Duncan MacLeod.  Lover of find brandy.  Attended funeral
   of a friend with Duncan.


Sendaro, Carlos
Actor:  Georges Corraface        Age:  150+
Status:  Deceased                Beheaded By:  Subway Train
First Appearance:  "Saving Grace"
Notes:  Obsessed with "possessing" Grace Chandler.  Was killed after being
   run-over by a subway train.


Sharon
Actor:  Alexa Gilmour            Age:  Unknown
Status:  Deceased                Beheaded By:  Axel Whittaker
First Appearance:  "Rite of Passage"
Notes:  Used as "bait" by Axel Whittaker, who killed her after she tried to
   escape with Duncan.  Was never taught to fight.


Shen, Mei-Ling
Actor:  Vivian Wu                Age:  600+
Status:  Deceased                Beheaded By:  Michael Christian
First Appearance:  "They Also Serve"
Notes:  Mentor to Kiem Sun and Duncan MacLeod.  Killed in her swimming pool.


St. Cloud, Xavier
Actor:  Roland Gift               Age:  372+
Status:  Deceased                 Beheaded By:  Duncan MacLeod
First Appearance:  "For Tomorrow We Die"
Notes:  Moor with a Christian name.  Former jewel thief.  He used mustard
   gas to kill everyone in a shop, then cleaned it out after he had recovered
   from the gas.  Lost his right hand in his original fight with Duncan
   MacLeod.  Hired mercenaries to shoot down immortals for easy killing.


Sullivan, Tommy
Actor:  Bruce Weitz               Age:  130+
Status:  Deceased                 Beheaded By:  Duncan MacLeod
First Appearance:  "The Fighter"
Notes:  Former boxer.  Boxing trainer.  Killed in a boxing ring.


Sun, Kiem
Actor:  Soon Teck Oh              Age:  564
Status:  Alive
First Appearance:  "Road Not Taken"
Notes:  Cowardly Immortal who hides in a Buddhist monastery to avoid
   fights.  Tried to create a loyal army of thugs through drugs.


Talbott, Jason
Actor:  Roark Critchlow           Age:  Unknown
Status:  Deceased                 Beheaded By:  Xavier St. Cloud
First Appearance:  "Unholy Alliance, Part 1"
Notes:  Second victim of Xavier St. Cloud and his mercenaries.  Killed in a
   New York City parking garage.


Tarsis
Actor:  Richard Lintern           Age:  57+
Status:  Deceased                 Beheaded By:  Duncan MacLeod
First Appearance:  "Reasonable Doubts"
Notes:  Bank robber.  Mentor to Lucas Kagan.  Killed outside an opium den.


Timon
Actor:  Demetri Goritsas          Age:  Unknown
Status:  Deceased                 Beheaded By:  Kallas
First Appearance:  "Song Of The Executioner"
Notes:  Monk taking sanctuary at Paul's monastery.  Taught Duncan MacLeod
   how to read.  Killed just outside the monastery gates.


Unnamed Mongolian Warrior #1
Actor:  Raoul Trujillo             Age:  430+
Status:  Deceased                  Beheaded By:  Kane
First Appearance:  "Highlander:  The Final Dimension" (film)
Notes:  Follower of Kane.  Trapped in the cave-in of Nakano's cave with
   Kane and the other Unnamed Mongolian Warrior.  Beheaded in mining tunnel.


Unnamed Mongolian Warrior #2
Actor:  Jean-Pierre Prusse         Age:  430+
Status:  Deceased                  Beheaded By:  Connor MacLeod
First Appearance:  "Highlander:  The Final Dimension" (film)
Notes:  Follower of Kane.  Sent to New York to find Connor.  Killed in a
   hospital laundry room.


Unnamed Pedestrian
Actor:  No Credit Given            Age:  Unknown
Status:  Deceased                  Beheaded By:  Kallas
First Appearance:  "Finale, Part 1"
Notes:  Run down by Kallas and Nino before being beheaded.  Kallas needed his
   sword.  Beheaded with a "golf-swing".


Ursa
Actor:  Christian Van Acker        Age:  400+
Status:  Alive
First Appearance:  "The Beast Below"
Notes:  Mute giant, possibly slightly retarded.  Used the head of a glaive
   as a weapon.  Formerly living under the Paris opera, now living in a
   monastery (perhaps Paul's monastery).


Voshin, Alexei
Actor:  Stephen Macht              Age:  120+
Status:  Deceased                  Beheaded By:  Boat Propeller
First Appearance:  "The Sea Witch"
Notes:  Russian drug dealer.  Knocked overboard during swordfight on his ship
   and caught in the propeller.


Ward, Nicholas
Actor:  Jeremy Brudenell           Age:  400+
Status:  Deceased                  Beheaded By:  Duncan MacLeod
First Appearance:  "The Vampire"
Notes:  Record producer.  Pretended to be a vampire in the 1800's.  Formerly
   used a sword-cane.


Webster, Michelle
Actor:  Gabrielle Miller           Age:  18
Status:  Alive
First Appearance:  "Rite of Passage"
Notes:  Young girl watched by Duncan for years.  "Died" in a car crash.
   Wooed by Axel Whittaker.  Student of Amanda Darieux.


Whittaker, Axel
Actor:  Rob Stewart                Age:  123+
Status:  Deceased                  Beheaded By:  Duncan MacLeod
First Appearance:  "Rite of Passage"
Notes:  Uses young and beautiful female immortals as "bait".  Keeps them
   ignorant of fencing.


     The following Immortals were mentioned in the series and films
by name, but were never actually portrayed.


Boyer
Age:  Unknown                      Mentioned In:  "They Also Serve"
Status:  Alive
Notes:  Mentioned by Watchers during poker game.


Ferrer, Roy
Age:  Unknown                      Mentioned In:  "Finale, Part 2"
Status:  Deceased                  Beheaded By:  Unknown
Notes:  Listed in Watcher's database as previous assignment of Joe Dawson.


Gaspar
Age:  Unknown                      Mentioned In:  "They Also Serve"
Status:  Deceased                  Beheaded By:  Unknown
Notes:  Mentioned by Watchers during poker game.


Grant, Liza
Age:  Unknown                      Mentioned In:  "Finale, Part 2"
Status:  Deceased                  Beheaded By:  Unknown
Notes:  Listed in Watcher's database as previous assignment of Joe Dawson.


Hale, Peter
Age:  Unknown                      Mentioned In:  "Song of the Executioner"
Status:  Deceased                  Beheaded By:  Kallas
Notes:  Murdered by Kallas at Paul's monastery before Duncan MacLeod arrived.


Ironhorse
Age:  215+                         Mentioned In:  "The Watchers"
Status:  Deceased                  Beheaded By:  Unknown
Notes:  Shawnee medicine man for three generations.  The Watchers now have
   his medicine pipe.


Okie
Age:  Unknown                      Mentioned In:  "The Watchers"
Status:  Deceased                  Beheaded By:  Unknown
Notes:  Gunfighter.  Killed while drunk.  The Watchers now have his shot
   glass.


 >>> Continued to next message...

--- FreeMail & Blue Wave/DOS v2.21
 * Origin: The Wizard's Realm ** (713) 946-7315 ** (1:106/7315)

Ä [27] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 106 of 106
 From : David Little                        1:106/7315      .pä 07 .åâ 96 08:23
 To   : The Raven
 Subj : [5/5] Highlander
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 >>> Part 5 of 5...


Parocchi, Flavin
Age:  Unknown                      Mentioned In:  "The Watchers"
Status:  Deceased                  Beheaded By:  The Kurgan
Notes:  Listed in Watcher's database.


Racine, Alexandra
Age:  Unknown                      Mentioned In:  "Finale, Part 2"
Status:  Deceased                  Beheaded By:  Unknown
Notes:  Listed in Watcher's database as previous assignment of Jacques
   Vermas.


Richland
Age:  Unknown                      Mentioned In:  "They Also Serve"
Status:  Deceased                  Beheaded By:  Boyer
Notes:  Mentioned by Watchers during poker game.


Sarah
Age:  Unknown                      Mentioned In:  "They Also Serve"
Status:  Deceased                  Beheaded By:  Unknown
Notes:  Mentioned by Watchers during poker game.


Stanton
Age:  Unknown                      Mentioned In:  "They Also Serve"
Status:  Deceased                  Beheaded By:  Unknown
Notes:  Mentioned by Watchers during poker game.


Thackary
Age:  Unknown                      Mentioned In:  "The Hunters"
Status:  Deceased                  Beheaded By:  The Hunters
Notes:  Mentioned by Fitzcairn as "missing".


Trent, Jackson
Age:  Unknown                      Mentioned In:  "They Also Serve"
Status:  Deceased                  Beheaded By:  Michael Christian
Notes:  Romance novelist.  Killed by Michael Christian at the direction of
   his Watcher lover.


Trotski, Ivan
Age:  Unknown                      Mentioned In:  "The Watchers"
Status:  Deceased                  Beheaded By:  The Kurgan
Notes:  Listed in Watcher's database.


Ulov, Boris
Age:  Unknown                      Mentioned In:  "Finale, Part 2"
Status:  Deceased                  Beheaded By:  Unknown
Notes:  Listed in Watcher's database as previous assignment of Jacques
   Vermas.


Valjean, Henri
Age:  Unknown                      Mentioned In:  "Legacy"
Status:  Deceased                  Beheaded By:  Luther
Notes:  Former student of Rebecca Horn.  Luther killed him to acquire his
   shard of the Eternity Crystal.


Vazilek, Osta
Age:  Unknown                      Mentioned In:  Highlander (Film)
Status:  Deceased                  Beheaded By:  The Kurgan
Notes:  Connor MacLeod is questioned about his death.  (It is his picture
   Connor is shown during the interrogation.)


Watson, Robert
Age:  Unknown                      Mentioned In:  "Finale, Part 2"
Status:  Deceased                  Beheaded By:  Unknown
Notes:  Listed in Watcher's database as previous assignment of Jacques
   Vermas.


     Jack Butler
                                        -=The DoLittle 8-)=-


... "It's better than a Duck Tales episode!"--Pinky

--- FreeMail & Blue Wave/DOS v2.21
 * Origin: The Wizard's Realm ** (713) 946-7315 ** (1:106/7315)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 1 of 284
 From : Chris Carter                        1:105/290.23    .cê 11 .åâ 96 06:23
 To   : Todd Sullivan
 Subj : syzygy
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On (08 Feb 96) Todd Sullivan wrote to Chris Baugh...

 TS> In astrology, conjunctions are times of a gathering of power or of
 TS> change; a syzygy is even rarer, and points to more power or more
 TS> change, good or bad.

Please don't tell me a syzygy occurred when the Communications Decency
Act was signed into law.

Chris - carter@teleport.com


... You WILL vote for John Brain for President in '96.

--- PPoint 2.00
 * Origin: Grid Epsilon Coords. 105x290x23 (1:105/290.23)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 2 of 284
 From : Chris Carter                        1:105/290.23    .cê 11 .åâ 96 06:25
 To   : Kim Wheat
 Subj : Star Trek
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On (09 Feb 96) Kim Wheat wrote to Channon Lang...

 KW> I've watched Chris since his first msg....and have started looking
 KW> into card shops for this really, really large sympathy card for
 KW> Nicolai! <g> She has the patience of a saint, she does!! :)

No, but Nicolai's wife probably does... ;~)

Chris - carter@teleport.com


... "Father's Moustache looks a little droopy."

--- PPoint 2.00
 * Origin: Grid Epsilon Coords. 105x290x23 (1:105/290.23)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 3 of 284
 From : Chris Carter                        1:105/290.23    .cê 11 .åâ 96 06:26
 To   : James Walton
 Subj : Star Wars Novelizations
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On ( 9 Feb 96) James Walton wrote to Chris Carter...

 JW> It's nothing special really.  The pages are starting to turn
 JW> yellow, since it is a cheap paper back book.

Have it vacuum packed immediately.

[...]

 JW> From your reaction, I would guess that this book is probably worth
 JW> more than the cover price. $1.95?  (It isn't within reach at the
 JW> moment.)

What isn't in reach at the moment is what that book is worth right now,
which is quite a bit.  ("Well, more wealth than you can imagine."  "I
dunno kid, I can imagine quite a bit.")  I'm not a collector and don't
have numbers at hand, but as I understand it a 1st ed. Star Wars novel
is worth mucho bucks.  And it sounds like yours is in pretty fine shape.

Chris - carter@teleport.com


... This post came to you through the courtesy of the Eagle Hand Laundry.

--- PPoint 2.00
 * Origin: Grid Epsilon Coords. 105x290x23 (1:105/290.23)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 4 of 284
 From : Judy Hayes                          1:154/40        .cê 11 .åâ 96 15:28
 To   : Phill Ash
 Subj : Re: STAR TREK SEXISM
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

-> "Who me? I'm just plain & simple." said Phill.

 JH> Phil....what "studies" are you referring to?  I know of many places
 JH> where this "just ain't so".  Women are still making less money than men
 JH> in  comparable jobs.
 PA>
 PA> That's why I hate inputting that sort of thing... I never keep
 PA> articles laying around!  It was from an article in 'Time' or
 PA> 'Business Weekly'.

Oh, those....2 magazines run by men... |-D

 PA> Meanwhile, 2-income families became the "elite" and in the
 PA> Great American Spirit of "Keeping Up With the Joneses", a
 PA> family eventually required 2 incomes in order to maintain the
 PA> status of "middle class".

 JH> My husband and I began with 2 jobs when we got married.  Then he went
 JH> to school and worked part time and I worked full time.  All through

.....snik...

 JH> up with the Joneses" is not a  prime motivation for us....nor is it for
 JH> many middle class families.

 PA> Sure, it is!  If you're not so concerned about maintaining the
 PA> financial 'status quo' then surely one of you could take a few
 PA> years off from the workforce and practice homeschooling your
 PA> kids.  Chances are, they'd be better off for it!

Ha, ha, ha!  You've got to be kidding!  My poor children....I want them to be
well educated.  I know my own limitations and I really don't think I'd make
a very good teacher.  I'm a good mom and am very good at teaching them values
and common sense but as far as English (well, maybe English would be okay),
History, and Mathmatics (especially mathmatics) goes there is *no way* that
I am up to it.

 PA> This led to the rise of non-familial child-care which now
 PA> pervades our society.  Children are being forced to interact
 PA> socially with children of various race, religion and national
 PA> origin; thus causing confusion with regards to social mores
 PA> and ethics.
 JH> You think having your children exposed to a variety of backgrounds is
 JH> a *bad* thing?  My children enjoy learning about other cultures and are
 JH> facinated by their differences....I wouldn't call them confused.
 PA> There was a 3 year-old in England back in '93 who enjoyed
 PA> interacting with older children.  When his mother took him to
 PA> a mall, he walked away with 2 10 year-olds.  Becoming bored
 PA> with him, the 10 year-olds led him down by the railroad tracks
 PA> and smashed his skull in with a rock.  His body (or the remains
 PA> thereof) was found 3 weeks later.

But Phil, this has nothing to do with exposing children to a variety of
backgrounds in a controlled school environment.

 PA> Without a father-figure, youths of the 70's and 80's became
 PA> teens of the 80's and 90's who, in some instances, actually
 PA> believe that it's alright to impregnate a woman and never
 PA> interact with her again.  These "hit & runs" are founded in a
 PA> belief that a father is not necessary because "I turned out ok
 PA> without a father".
 JH> You equate going to non-familial child-care with not having a father
 JH> figure? Or am I misunderstanding you?
 PA> You didn't catch the "in some instances" <G>
 JH> And that, a child who has no "at home" father-figure will become an
 JH> unwed or at least, unresponsible teen parent?
 PA> From '69 to '75, I had no father-figure... and I'm not a
 PA> raging sociopath (much <G>).  Since my divorce, I have joint
 PA> custody of my son (3 years old) and he spends the majority of
 PA> his days with me, while spending the evenings with his mother.

I'm glad you and your ex have worked out such an equitable arrangement. <g>

 JH> Children who are raised properly and given a good set of values should
 JH> be  able to apply those values to their own lives no matter whether
 JH> they  recieved them from one or both parents.
 PA> Is a 'lone' parent *really* equipped to perform that function?
 PA> No.  The Day-care industry is proof of that.

In what way?  You're saying that because a child goes to day care that a
lone/single parent is unable to teach them good moral values?  I wouldn't
send my child into a Day Care environment where I did not feel that they
would teach my child the same type of values that I stressed at home.  It
would not be a resonable or responsible act.

 PA> This is probably one of the primary reasons Roddenberry chose
 PA> to have families aboard the Enterprise-D.  As Crusher avers in
 PA> "When the Bough Breaks", human are at their fiercest when
 PA> their children are threatened.  Or so we hope for the Future.
 JH> True....but what does this do with women wanting to become men?
 PA> (shhh!  I'm trying to keep it 'on-topic'!!! <G>)

Oooooops, too late.  <BG>

 PA> btw... I found the Alcone Paramount Theatrical Supplies
 PA> catalog that I told you about before.  The addresses are as
 PA> follows:
 PA> Mail-Order Warehouse            Retail Store
 PA> Alcone L.I.C.                   Alcone N.Y.C.
 PA> 5-49 49th Ave                   235 W. 19th St
 PA> Long Island City                New York City
 PA> NY, 11101                       NY, 10011
 PA> tel. 718-361-8373               tel & fax 212-633-0551
 PA> fax. 718-729-8296

 PA> They have divided their catalogs, so you'll want to
 PA> specify either "Make-Up Supply" or "Technical Supply"

Thanks, pal!  I'll have to send for them both. Even though I may never use the
technical one, I'd like to have it for reference.  Do they charge for their
catalogues?


      --Quoshara


... Blessings never come in pairs; misfortunes never come alone.
---
 * Origin: Anonymous BBS -=- Non plus Ultra -=- 414-251-2580 (1:154/40)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 5 of 284
 From : The Raven                           1:363/309       .óá 10 .åâ 96 15:28
 To   : Mark Jones
 Subj : Bred to Conquer
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
"This just in from our Moscow bureau..."

 MJ> I read the first one.  Actually, I hacked my way through it with a
 MJ> machete (or that's how it felt) because the premise was entertaining.
 MJ> But the *writing*....
 MJ> I had a phase when I really enjoyed ADF's novels--but not any more.

     Well, to each his own... I have the same exact reaction to a bunch of
writers, and have been called on it by folks here and around more than once.
(You should have seen the reaction people had to my opinions on Tolkein...
you'd have thought I took a dump on the Mona Lisa.)

     Jack Butler



... "The cost of liberty is less than the price of repression."
--- Blue Wave/DOS v2.20 [NR]
 * Origin: Forethought BBS -=- Orlando, FL -=- 407-679-6561 (1:363/309)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 6 of 284
 From : The Raven                           1:363/309       .óá 10 .åâ 96 15:32
 To   : Christian Raven
 Subj : Female Leaders
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
"This just in from our Moscow bureau..."

 CR> this is quite obvious, as (a) there has never been a female president in
 CR> the leading country of the world

     Tell that to Queen Victoria.  No, I suppose she wasn't a "president", but
she led her country at a time when it was *the* superpower.  The *only*
superpower.
     While we are at it, let's mention Catherine the Great, Queen Anne, Queen
Boddicia, Indira Ghandi, Margaret Thatcher, and Corazon Aquino.  All female
leaders, all heavy influences on their cultures and their countries.

     You and your anachronistic "ideals" went south a long, long time ago.

     Jack Butler


... "Facts are stupid things." -- Ronald Reagan
--- Blue Wave/DOS v2.20 [NR]
 * Origin: Forethought BBS -=- Orlando, FL -=- 407-679-6561 (1:363/309)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 7 of 284
 From : Aaron Turon                         1:137/2         .cê 11 .åâ 96 08:09
 To   : All
 Subj : Star Trek
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Is anyone out there? Please talk o\to me about Star Trek!

--- Opus-CBCS 1.73a
 * Origin: Chipper Clipper * Scott me up beamy! * 941-745-56 (1:137/2.0)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 8 of 284
 From : Kevin Ahearn                        1:109/104       .cê 11 .åâ 96 21:49
 To   : Channon Lang
 Subj : Re: Our good moderator
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 KW> I've watched Chris since his first msg....and have started looking
 KW> into card shops for this really, really large sympathy card for
 KW> Nicolai! <g> She has the patience of a saint, she does!! :)

 CL>  Well, she's put up with ALOT more than I would have...and to think I'm a
 CL>  sysop too...

Pardon me for butting in, but I felt it necessary to point out that Nicolai is
actually a he.  :)

--Kevin

--- Maximus/2 3.01
 * Origin: ShanErin (1:109/104)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 9 of 284
 From : The Raven                           1:363/309       .åò 08 .åâ 96 02:46
 To   : Marc Zingarelli
 Subj : Adding to the List
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
  "This just in from our Moscow bureau..."

 MZ> Where ya' been hiding?  Noticed on the highlander website that they
 MZ> are listing episodes in september (though the last 4 and the september
 MZ> episodes are listed TBA).  Does this mean we get a 5th season.

     Its beginning to look like it.  I've seen the same things.

     Jack Butler



... ebius tagline. This is a moebius tagline. This is a mo ...
--- Blue Wave/DOS v2.20 [NR]
 * Origin: Forethought BBS -=- Orlando, FL -=- 407-679-6561 (1:363/309)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 10 of 284
 From : The Raven                           1:363/309       .åò 08 .åâ 96 02:58
 To   : Owen E. Oulton
 Subj : BS!!
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
  "This just in from our Moscow bureau..."

 OEO> "What'd he say?"
 OEO> "He said a Greek shall inherit the Earth."
 OEO> "Did anyone happen to catch his name?"
 OEO> "Oh, no, it was the MEEK!  The meek shall inherit the Earth.
 OEO> "Oh, that's nice, nobody ever does anything for them."

     "Was that `blessed are the cheesemakers'?

     Jack Butler



... Exercise your right to arm and keep bears!
--- Blue Wave/DOS v2.20 [NR]
 * Origin: Forethought BBS -=- Orlando, FL -=- 407-679-6561 (1:363/309)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 11 of 284
 From : The Raven                           1:363/309       .åò 08 .åâ 96 12:18
 To   : Nicolai Shapero
 Subj : Nuclear
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
"This just in from our Moscow bureau..."

 NS> Humans are generalists.  Specialization is for insects.  Any
 NS> individual species may be better than us at one thing; we're better
 NS> than just about every other species at all things.  As you pointed out
 NS> -- which species are endangered...

     Watched something that keyed me into this last night, "The Last Feast of
the Crocodiles", a National Geographic special.  There was a scene where a
baboon had dug himself a water pit and was guarding it, but was backed away
from it by an antelope.
     I could't help but think that if it had been a chimp, the chimp would
have grabbed the stick lying not four feet away and wacked the antelope until
it went away.
     Boy, it's a wonderful thing to be a higher primate with a 747 brain...

     Jack Butler



... Je suis Marxiste, tendance Groucho.
--- Blue Wave/DOS v2.20 [NR]
 * Origin: Forethought BBS -=- Orlando, FL -=- 407-679-6561 (1:363/309)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 12 of 284
 From : ROBERT LIDGREN                      1:134/10        .cê 11 .åâ 96 12:26
 To   : NICOLAI SHAPERO
 Subj : clarification
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
-> This subject has been declared off-topic.  It was declared off topic some
-> time ago by yours truly.  There has been MORE than enough time for you to
-> have seen that posting.
->
-> NO MORE POSTS ON THIS SUBJECT MATTER.
->
-> This is the third rules violation from you in less than two weeks.  Are you
-> trying for a record?

Hi Nicolai!  I haven't been following SFFAN daily or anything so I guess I've
missed the latest directive.  Waht caused Kay to make her decision?  What
happened re: this nuclear thread business? Was it just a matter of "subject
overload?"

Then I found the irritating and silly message re: women by Christian Raven and
had to respond AT LENGTH.  The funny thing was that despite my pounting out
more than a dozen observations showing why his arguments were paper-thin he
didn't really have anything substantive to say.  I guess I just feel compelled
to comment when men or women are bashed AS A GROUP. Moreover, these days, the
thought that women are, somehow, well.. I won't get into that - let's just say
that I find attacks on women or GENERALIZATIONS about their weakness or "lack
of hard work" outrageous.  The women around me and in my life work very hard
and no sex has a monopoly on output of energy.

Also, having a fine, intelligent wife and a very energetic daughter and a son
who seems to be growing an inch a month, I see things from a new perspective
too.  Bold gender basing is easy but not terribly useful nor constructive.  I
especially like the changes in women as portrayed in science fiction. Stronger
characters are sprouting up everywhere - and you know what - this MERE
portrays the reality of women's contributions throughout history.

When I talk to my children about the men/women questions they just laugh and
wonder how anyone could think either sex can sensibly be labelled as
"superior."  Sometime children see through bad arguments faster than a speeding
bullet!


Some of the very best science fiction being written today is by women.  It's a
refreshing new breeze, don't you think?
--- PCBoard 15.2
 * Origin: 32 lines 40 Gig BBS, Realtime InterNet SLIP (403)299-9900 (1:134/10)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 13 of 284
 From : Frank Glover                        1:2613/477      .cê 11 .åâ 96 18:20
 To   : Todd Sullivan
 Subj : Re: Star Trek Generations
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

TS>   FG>    I think we can assume there will be an Enterprise-E...one
TS>  wonders what
TS>   FG> it will look like?
TS>
TS>  Seems to me the ship we say leaving orbit was a possibility.  In the
TS>  TNG Tech Manual, the next class is the Nova; one might assume that
TS>  was it, or another new design.
TS>

  Didn't seem large enough for Enterprise's kind of long-duration misions with
lots of famalies. Big Galaxy-sized saucer, but no lower decks. Rather like the
first (uprated) Enterprise, compared to whatever class the Reliant was.

   Nicolai thinks it'll be the three engined Enterprise seen in `All
Good things.'

   BTW, having just wacthed ST: Generations this afternoon, does anyone know who
the older gentelman was who played the Enterprise-B's communications officer? He
*looked* for allthe world like former astronaut Pete Conrad (who once played
himself in the made-for-tv movie `Plymouth,' about a community displaced from
their town due to a toxic chemical accident,and moved to a Lunar colony), but
I'm not sure, and I don't think I saw the character identified in the credits.

   Anyone know for sure?

   Frank


--- QuickBBS 2.80 GoldBase (Zeta-1)
 * Origin: The Matrix Data Bank BBS, Rochester, Ny (1:2613/477)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 14 of 284
 From : Frank Glover                        1:2613/477      .cê 11 .åâ 96 18:59
 To   : Chris Carter
 Subj : Re: Star Trek Generations
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

CC>  If another ST film is made following the events in "Generations," I
CC>  imagine the Enterprise-E will have a configuration similar to the
CC>  standard main hull / secondary hull / twin-nacelle design that has
CC>  always been the paradigm for starships called 'Enterprise.'  Still, a
CC>  few new wrinkles will be added...

   Or maybe the path of least resistance. The next Galaxy-class ship off the
line....

   But maybe with Voyager's bio-pack computers, rather than the older isolinear
stuff.

CC>  But please, NO articulated warp nacelle mounts!

   Those wouldn't bother me as much if they simply gave a *reason* for the
articulation. Still, I wouldn't worry. Voyager-class ships seem too small for
the kind of long duration missions the Enterprise does. (Which makes it all the
harder for the one stuck 70.000 ly from home.)

   Frank


--- QuickBBS 2.80 GoldBase (Zeta-1)
 * Origin: The Matrix Data Bank BBS, Rochester, Ny (1:2613/477)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 15 of 284
 From : Kay Shapero                         1:102/524       .cê 11 .åâ 96 14:48
 To   : Channon Lang
 Subj : Re: Star Trek
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Feb 10 21:34>, Channon Lang (1:130/809) wrote to Kim Wheat:

 KW> I've watched Chris since his first msg....and have started looking
 KW> into card shops for this really, really large sympathy card for
 KW> Nicolai! <g> She has the patience of a saint, she does!! :)

 CL> Well, she's put up with ALOT more than I would have...and to
 CL>think I'm a sysop too...
 CL>

Er... actually I'm a she.  Nicolai's a he.  (otherwise we might have had trouble
producing Vicky... :->)

--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 16 of 284
 From : Nicolai Shapero                     1:102/524       .cê 11 .åâ 96 21:50
 To   : Kim Wheat
 Subj : Star Trek
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Feb 09 12:19>, Kim Wheat (1:271/285) wrote to Channon Lang:

 KW>   I've watched Chris since his first msg....and have started
 KW>looking
 KW> into card shops for this really, really large sympathy card for
 KW> Nicolai! <g> She has the patience of a saint, she does!! :)

Excuse me, but I happen to be male.

-- Nicolai Shapero, the Mad Russian Sysop of StormGate Aerie

--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 17 of 284
 From : Nicolai Shapero                     1:102/524       .cê 11 .åâ 96 21:53
 To   : Chris Carter
 Subj : Star Trek Generations
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Feb 10 06:10>, Chris Carter (1:105/290.23) wrote to Nicolai Shapero:

 NS> We've already seen what it's going to look like...remember ALL
 NS> GOOD THINGS?  (Three nacelles, yet...)

 CC>The vessel in "All Good Things" was the Enterprise-D, after a
 CC>major
 CC>refit.  You'll remember Adm. Riker's comments to the effect of,
 CC>"bringing her out of mothballs," or something.  Also, the third
 CC>nacelle
 CC>is recognizably a retrofit.  Look at its mounting.

I thought that it was supposed to be Enterprise E.  I don't remember the comment
by Riker, so I'll obviously have to dig out the tape and play it again.

-- Nicolai Shapero, the Mad Russian Sysop of StormGate Aerie

--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 18 of 284
 From : Channon Lang                        1:130/809       .îí 12 .åâ 96 01:51
 To   : Elizabeth H. Penrose
 Subj : Re: Computer Hitchhiker
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE 1.11+
From a dark bottomless pit,Elizabeth H. Penrose screamed up to Channon Lang
about Computer Hitchhiker..

 EHP> It was zapped when the computer went down.  I know nothing more.
 EHP> Barton Paul Levenson (who has roughly the same connection to me as
 EHP> Jack Benny's vault-keeper) promises to reinstate it when I'm done with
 EHP> my paper.

 I'm sorry, I'm not sure which message you are referring to. I have no idea
 what you are talking about...

 Channon


... Captain, alien life readings...from your head???
--- MachoEcho 0.5ñ
 * Origin: The State of Confusion * Arlington Tx * 817-274-1920 * (1:130/809)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 19 of 284
 From : James Walton                        1:129/260       .îí 12 .åâ 96 02:30
 To   : Chris Carter
 Subj : Star Wars Novelizations
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 CC> What isn't in reach at the moment is what that book is worth
 CC> right now, which is quite a bit.  ("Well, more wealth than
 CC> you can imagine."  "I dunno kid, I can imagine quite a
 CC> bit.")  I'm not a collector and don't have numbers at hand,
 CC> but as I understand it a 1st ed. Star Wars novel is worth
 CC> mucho bucks.  And it sounds like yours is in pretty fine
 CC> shape.

Hmm.  I know that some books become quite valuable.  I may wrap this one in
plastic, in that case.  I have a first edition copy of "Splinter of the Mind's
Eye" too.
The problem is, I don't buy to collect and sell.  I buy to read and enjoy.
So I might find out how much this book is worth, but I will never sell.

---
 * Origin: Up in James' Attic, (412)-431-2891,  (1:129/260)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 20 of 284
 From : Elizabeth H. Penrose                1:129/26        .cê 11 .åâ 96 06:37
 To   : Gerry Normandeau
 Subj : Twelve Monkeys
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
The director of the short called himself "Chris Marker"; a pseudonym for a
French Marxist.  The short was called "La Jetee".  Never "The Jetty".  It is
always kept in the French form.  And while I know all this, I've never seen it.

--- Maximus 3.01
 * Origin: SoundingBoard, Pittsburgh PA (1:129/26)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 21 of 284
 From : Barton Paul Levenson                1:129/26        .cê 11 .åâ 96 08:25
 To   : Phill Ash
 Subj : STAR TREK SEXISM
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
My wife works in the day-care industry.  She does a good job.

There have always been single-parent families, though usually not as many as
now.  Two-parent families are not necessarily better.  The pathology of a
culture does not seem to depend on its family structure.  Consider the upper
classes in the Roman Republic and the early Empire.  Generally two parents, plus
professional tutors, servants and slaves.  Yet they turned out a surprisingly
high fraction of dangerous sociopaths.

--- Maximus 3.01
 * Origin: SoundingBoard, Pittsburgh PA (1:129/26)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 22 of 284
 From : Barton Paul Levenson                1:129/26        .cê 11 .åâ 96 08:28
 To   : Darre LuAllen
 Subj : Re: Star Trek Sexism
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Excellant post (on damming-up one's mind).

--- Maximus 3.01
 * Origin: SoundingBoard, Pittsburgh PA (1:129/26)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 23 of 284
 From : Kim Kelley                          1:3822/1        .cê 11 .åâ 96 09:51
 To   : Frank Glover
 Subj : Re: X-FILES
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

FG-->RL>  Something's up
FG-->RL>  here - further evolution in their characters.  I liked it despite the

FG-->   I'm inclined to agree with this. I just (and I mean minutes ago) watche
FG-->the next episode involving the gargoyles, and I get the hint of at least
FG-->Scully's concern for Mulder going somewhere beyond the professional. (Not
FG-->toward the `L' word now mind you, but somewhere beyond.) The nature of the
FG-->plot made it impossible to tell if his feelings are growing in any way,
FG-->though.
FG-->   Frank


FG-->--- QuickBBS 2.80 GoldBase (Zeta-1)
FG--> * Origin: The Matrix Data Bank BBS, Rochester, Ny (1:2613/477)

---
 * OLX 2.1 TD * ARKANSAS UPDATE...UPDATE...UPDATE...UPDATE...UPDATE...


--- QScan/PCB v1.17b / 01-0162
 * Origin: Jackalope Junction 501-785-5381 Ft Smith AR (1:3822/1)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 24 of 284
 From : Kim Kelley                          1:3822/1        .cê 11 .åâ 96 09:51
 To   : Robert Lidgren
 Subj : Re: X-FILES
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

FG-->   I'm inclined to agree with this. I just (and I mean minutes ago) watche
FG-->the next episode involving the gargoyles, and I get the hint of at least
FG-->Scully's concern for Mulder going somewhere beyond the professional. (Not
FG-->toward the `L' word now mind you, but somewhere beyond.) The nature of the
FG-->plot made it impossible to tell if his feelings are growing in any way,
FG-->though.


eXcuse me?  I just thought that I'd join in the confab, if I might?

Did either of you see the 2-9 episode that is to be continued?  This one
has truly kept me on the edge of my seat wondering exactly "what" is
inhabiting all these people.  With the black "roling" eyes, the mystery
is even more powerful, because that's all that is evident until "it"
explodes into radiation.  It appears, to me, that "it" is "getting back"
at someone.

Kim
---
 * OLX 2.1 TD * Love your enemies!!! It drives 'em NUTS!!!!!


--- QScan/PCB v1.17b / 01-0162
 * Origin: Jackalope Junction 501-785-5381 Ft Smith AR (1:3822/1)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 25 of 284
 From : Anders Danebo                       2:201/190       .cê 11 .åâ 96 15:07
 To   : Chris Ogniben
 Subj : Cybersex
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

-=> Quoting Chris Ogniben to Mark Jones <=-

 CO>
 CO> You people are sick, morons that don't have a life to be talking
 CO> this crap in here.  This is the science fiction conference, and not
 CO> the cybersex conference, so if you want to continue this blabber in
 CO> here, your gonna pay dearly.

Do you really have to make every comment personal and offensive...I've only
seen 2 messages from you that i remember and both of them where p & o..
Try explaining to people if you have a problem..Don't give them names and
act a little sensible..Everybody has a right to like what they like, but
i agree that cybersex doesn't belong here..And making threats only makes
you look like a fool(no offence)...



... (Ice rocks hit the hull)  "Captain, we are being hailed."
--- GEcho 1.00
 * Origin: =:Detroit Rock City:= Stockholm, Sweden  +46-8-870055 (2:201/190)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 26 of 284
 From : Anders Danebo                       2:201/190       .cê 11 .åâ 96 15:11
 To   : Bianca Wesslak
 Subj : Cybersex
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

-=> Quoting Bianca Wesslak to Chris Ogniben <=-

 BW> From a woman with an overactive imagination.

 BW> What is it about cybersex that can't be considered scifi.  Example of
 BW> my point the holodeckts in star trek.  Science fiction covers a big
 BW> area, some of it sexual.  Also you are not the moderator here, you have
 BW> no power over what is being said.  Your own actions leave much to be
 BW> desired, no offense.

I belive the SciFi conference is ment to be used for serious Science Fiction
discussions and one can not get serious when sex is involved..If one wants
sex (cyber or not) then why not just get some..To talk about it is only
boring and non interesting...THink about it and you will know what i mean..


... #1 Hit on the Borg Top 40: Borg in the USA.....
--- GEcho 1.00
 * Origin: =:Detroit Rock City:= Stockholm, Sweden  +46-8-870055 (2:201/190)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 27 of 284
 From : Darre LuAllen                       1:3637/1        .îí 12 .åâ 96 08:41
 To   : Mark Jones
 Subj : Bs!!
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 On 02-08-96 Mark Jones wrote to Darre LuAllen...

 DL>  Sorry for butting in.

 MJ> Don't apologize--that's what the echo is for!

 Thanks.  I just wanted to be polite.  This thread was getting a little
 heated, so I thought to tread lightly.

 TS> Your idea that we're even worth bothering with to an
 TS> interstellar empire is ludicrous....

 DL> I can think of three reasons, all bad: 1) Cheap (read slave)
 DL> labor, 2) free land (like they couldn't find a better planet),
 DL> and 3) food (remember the original "V" TV movies?)


 MJ> Cheap labor?  I don't think so.  Interstellar travel is probably going
 MJ> to be exceptionally difficult--especially if FTL never pans
 MJ> out--no matter how advanced your technology is.  If you've got the
 MJ> industrial base to build a fleet of interstellar warships, you can
 MJ> probably build a robotic (or at least highly mechanized) economy.  You
 MJ> won't *need* aliens for brute labor.

 True.  You would have to assume that their robotics technology has kept up
 with their drive tech.  Otherwise,... Of course, it also depends upon the
 moral ethics of the alien race (being alien and all that).  If they have a
 hang up with creating what might be considered mechanical beings, then
 grabbing slaves would be cheap. I'm not assuming AI's here, just a religious
 paradox sort of like what can be seen here with Genetic Engineering.
 Besides, they might just *like* having slaves.

 MJ> Land might be the one valuable commodity--especially if it turns out
 MJ> that all the sentient beings in the universe require *same* sort of
 MJ> environment (i.e., earthlike).  The only way to get more of it would
 MJ> be to discover it (subjugating or exterminating the natives, if any)

 MJ> or to build it, either by terraforming unsuitable worlds or building
 MJ> colonies in space from scratch.

 I agree completely.  In fact, subjugating the populace would give them
 some good, old fashioned cheap labor.  (Yes, I realize that would be a
 secondary consideration to coming here.)

                                       Darre LuAllen

 I think so Brain, but me and Delenn?  I mean, what would the children look
 like?
___
 * OFFLINE 1.56

--- Maximus/2 3.01
 * Origin: Cumberland BBS TN 615/526-3347 V34 (1:3637/1)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 28 of 284
 From : Jim May                             1:251/9         .îí 12 .åâ 96 14:46
 To   : NICOLAI SHAPERO
 Subj : Re: Star Trek Generations
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 -=> Quoting Nicolai Shapero to Frank Glover <=-

 NS> -- Nicolai Shapero, the Mad Russian Sysop of StormGate Aerie

  This would make a great title and idea for an EP story. Any
  thoughts on writing one?



... The rooster may crow, but the hen delivers.
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

--- EzyQwk V1.10 01fa00fa
 * Origin: Programmer's Corner BBS, Halifax, NS(v32b/v42b) (1:251/9)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 29 of 284
 From : Chris Myers                         1:2613/313      .óá 10 .åâ 96 23:03
 To   : Jon Roth
 Subj : Re: Nowhere Man
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

-> The show annoyed me because there is only so much suspension of

disbelief that a person can come up with.        Anyone with even a
smatering of computer/modem knowledge (e.g. anyone reading thiscould
have done a better job portraying the internet.--- CNet/3

-> * Origin: Gnome's Guest Room BBS - (408)554-6689 (1:143/254)

Well, heck, I never believed anyone could really be sucked into VR
through a telephone connection, but I was willing to suspend that
disbelief because I like the characters and the way they interacted with
each other on VR5 the same as I liked the episode of Nowhere Man.  It's
only a story, like lets pretend and if you are not willing to suspend
disbelief and go along for the sake of escapism than you won't enjoy it.
 However, in the case of sitcoms, I know people are really that stupid
and I don't find it entertaining.

Chris

--- QScan/PCB v1.17b / 01-0406
 * Origin: Knight Moves - Rochester,NY 716-865-2106 (1:2613/313)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 30 of 284
 From : Chris Myers                         1:2613/313      .óá 10 .åâ 96 23:14
 To   : Kim Wheat
 Subj : Women
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

-> CR> psychologically and physically.  this is quite obvious, as (a)
-> there CR> has never been a female president in the leading country of
-> the world,
-> uh...Margret Thatcher? Oh, sorry...guess UK ain't a leading country
-> of this world.
-> CR> and (b) there has NEVER been a female weight-lifter even NEARLY
-> as CR> strong as a male.  women are physically weaker, and mentally
-> less CR> rational, the latter which could be obviously argued to a
-> CR> standstill... although there are many signs of this.
-> Sheesh, you are one brave dude, dude!

Yes, he is indeed a brave dude.  Granted, men may be phyically stronger,
but the Y chromasome certainly doesn't make them mentally
superior--different does not necessarily mean superior.  There is the
school of thought that two X chromasomes are superior to an X and a Y
chromasome.  Afterall, a pair beats one of a kind--at least in poker.

But don't get me wrong.  Men are beautiful, wonderful creatures and I
have adored them.  But do I want to be one?  Hell no!

Chris

--- QScan/PCB v1.17b / 01-0406
 * Origin: Knight Moves - Rochester,NY 716-865-2106 (1:2613/313)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 31 of 284
 From : Todd Sullivan                       1:202/720.3     .cê 11 .åâ 96 17:38
 To   : Nicolai Shapero
 Subj : Star Trek Generations
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
While substituting for Q, Nicolai Shapero took extreme delight in saying to
Frank Glover, "You'll do anything I say?"  Frank quailed when the words "Star
Trek Generations" were uttered.

 NS> On <Feb 06 21:56>, Frank Glover (1:2613/477) wrote to Chris Ogniben:

 FG>>   I think wecan assumethere will be an Enterprise-E...one
 FG>> wonders what it will look like?

 NS> We've already seen what it's going to look like...remember ALL GOOD
 NS> THINGS?  (Three nacelles, yet...)

That was a refitted Enterprise-D, Nicolai;  after Generations, we know that
won't be a possibility, or at least it's highly unlikely.

Todd Sullivan

... "The wave of the future is coming and there is no way to fight it."
     --Anne Lindbergh

-*- ASTG 1.9

--- Spot 1.3a Unregistered
 * Origin: Todd's Spot in the Continuum (1:202/720.3)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 32 of 284
 From : Kim Wheat                           1:271/285       .îí 12 .åâ 96 11:33
 To   : Channon Lang
 Subj : Star Trek
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
---<<*<<< Channon dazzled Buc Wheat with these words of wisdom!! >>>**>>----

 CL> Thank you...it's always nice to get a hug...

 Found them on sale and bought up a /bunch/ of um! :>

 KW> Sure, been here for years....just not as active on the TV/Movie
 KW> side of the house as I am with the book side, is all! :>

 CL> So, you have your house divided up between Movies and Books...Hmmmm,
 CL> and to think I have mine divided up between computers and child,
 CL> although, the child is beginning to take over there too...

 Well, hon....you should have come to us first, on the kid issue. I
 have two boys that I'd happily ship them up to your place for a spell...
 sorta as a 'test run', so to speak! <g> You could've seen that
 the baby stage is a piece of cake....it's the 'teen' years that
 take the toll! <g> Unfortunately, it's too late now! <lol>

 KW> I've watched Chris since his first msg....and have started looking
 KW> into card shops for this really, really large sympathy card for
 KW> Nicolai! <g> She has the patience of a saint, she does!! :)

 CL> Well, she's put up with ALOT more than I would have...and to think
 CL> I'm a sysop too...

 Hah! There's always one! :)

 Re: B5

 CL> Well, if you want to know the truth, I have only recently started
 CL> watching it. Like, real recent...maybe since right before Christmas,
 CL> that's it.

 Will be watching the new episode on Wednesday and I'll let you know.

 Re: V'ger

 CL> Yeah, I know what you mean. I was that way about TNG, too. My dad
 CL> still refuses to watch DS9, but somehow he tolerates V'ger. I keep
 CL> trying to give V'ger the benefit of the doubt. But, to tell you what,
 CL> if they don't start doing MUCH better, I'll have to finally write it
 CL> off. Actually, I like Janeway, but the writers need to really start
 CL> working...maybe get some writers from TNG or something...or start
 CL> totally new...who knows.

  Is it me, or are the Klingons turning into wimps??? I mean, I
 always knew Worf was a puff....but in the last DS9 episode, Kira <sp?>
 whips their butts???!! What the heck is going on in the Empire??!

 These are the dudes that sit around in pubs and knock each other out
 with their heads....for FUN, even!!! I tell ya....if I was that
 "warrior", I'd not have the hon-hok-a's to walk around that ship with
 head held high!! <g> Tis truly a dark time for the ol' Empire!

  Saw the next episode V'ger previews....heart beat when up when I
 heard the clip where Janeway sez, "Start the self-destruct sequance."
 But I imagine my luck ain't THAT good! :>

 Kim :)


... From Trekkies & from B5ers who hate Trek save us!
--- GEcho 1.00
 * Origin: From Trekkies & from B5ers who hate Trek save us! (1:271/285.0)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 33 of 284
 From : Karmin St.jean                      1:321/309       .òp 30 .íâ 96 22:05
 To   : Channon Lang
 Subj : THE GUIDE AND IT'S IN
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
CL> Hitchhiker's Guide---the radio series on tape.

CL> What kind of problems are you having setting it up?

CL> Channon

I successfully set up the Guide but its the only one I did successfully
set up and I forgot how I did it now. :( :(


 * SLMR 2.1a * Romulans-- Vulcans with an Attitude!

--- FLAME v1.1
 * Origin: Final Approach BBS - Spfld, MA (413)783-5853 (1:321/309)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 34 of 284
 From : Frank Glover                        1:2613/477      .îí 12 .åâ 96 22:27
 To   : Tommy Kellerman
 Subj : Re: Alien threats?
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

TK>  Yes, we have the intelligence and the body required to reach out into
TK>  the galaxy, but wouldn't this make us a powerful ally, instead of the
TK>  enemy?

  Or a *potential* threat.

  It wouldn't have to be anything we did. Aliens could be xenophobic, too.

TK>   FG>   If they should happen to believe in the Hicks/Ripley
TK>  philosophy  ("Nuke
TK>   FG> em' from orbit. It's the only way to be sure."), then we're
TK>  done. And
TK>   FG> indeed, even when we *do* gain a major interstellar travel
TK>  capability
TK>   FG> (and all the tech it implies), there's always a possibility  of
TK>  running
TK>   FG> into someone who will outclass us. It's just that right now,
TK>  we're dog
TK>   FG> meat for anyone capable of coming here, if it came to that.
TK>
TK>  Nuke us? Why would they? We are a quite peaceful race, living in a
TK>  world which still has blue oceans and fertile agricultural areas. If
TK>  they nuked us they wouldn't have the living world of today before
TK>  them, just a sterile lifeless rock. I don't know, but I don't think
TK>  this is their purpose.

   Um, history and current events don't speak well for the peacefulness of the
human race, but be that as it may....

   Their reply may be; "So what?"

   It's very important that anyone following this thread understand that I think
our first contact, in all likelyhood *will* be with benign, non-aggressive
beings. I simply suspect they far outnumber the `bad guys.' However, I also
never believed the argument that violent, aggressive races will destroy
themselves before acheiving interstellar travel, either. So there's a small but
non-zero chance that there are such beings somewhere out there, and their
reasons for hostility may not be easily comprehended by us...or have reasons all
too much like human behavior. Couple it with the technology that comes with
interstellar travel, and it would be a force we'd almost certainly be unable to
resist. (Even if, as has been mentioned, the beings in question are physically
weaker than ourselves. But I would expect little hand-to-(whatever appendage)
combat.) Think of all the reasons humans have ever made war, and think of a few
more. Those reasons may motivate some small minority of whatever number of
intelligences may exist out there. We should not develop a paranoia of our own,
just be mindful of all the possibilites.

   So as I said before, I both believe and hope the first visitors are more like
Michael Renne (`The Day the Earth Stood Still') or E.T. the Extraterrestrial.
than Darth Vader or Beserkers. Guys like Carl Sagan are convinced the former
*must* be so. I'm only convinced it is *probably* so.

   Frank


--- QuickBBS 2.80 GoldBase (Zeta-1)
 * Origin: The Matrix Data Bank BBS, Rochester, Ny (1:2613/477)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 35 of 284
 From : Frank Glover                        1:2613/477      .îí 12 .åâ 96 22:36
 To   : Frank Swarbrick
 Subj : Re: X-FILES
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

FS>   FG> I think it's a good idea as well. It would be interesting to
FS>  hear a
FS>   FG> Scully voice-over sometime, if the episode was a particularly
FS>  moving
FS>   FG> one for her.
FS>
FS>  Well, actually I can.  Scully did a voiceover at the end of "End
FS>  Game," the second part of the alien shapeshifter assassin episode.
FS>  She was talking about how it was that technology, medicine and
FS>  science
FS>  saved Mulder (after he was left in the freezing in the arctic).  It
FS>  was really used to justify how she could remain a sceptic after all
FS>  she had seen.  I know she's done others as well.

   You're right. I remember that one now....

   Frank


--- QuickBBS 2.80 GoldBase (Zeta-1)
 * Origin: The Matrix Data Bank BBS, Rochester, Ny (1:2613/477)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 36 of 284
 From : Frank Glover                        1:2613/477      .îí 12 .åâ 96 23:04
 To   : Chris Ogniben
 Subj : BS!!
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

CO>  our planet.  And that is, the factor that we humans are the worst
CO>  forms
CO>  of life in the entire universe.  Number one factor is that we attack

   Umm, you must have access to something I greatly wish the rest of had:
knowledge of the existence and nature of intelligent life elsewhere in the
universe. How else can you know that?

   We need to clean up our act, it's true. It's also possible to be *worse* than
us.

   Frank


--- QuickBBS 2.80 GoldBase (Zeta-1)
 * Origin: The Matrix Data Bank BBS, Rochester, Ny (1:2613/477)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 37 of 284
 From : Frank Glover                        1:2613/477      .îí 12 .åâ 96 23:09
 To   : Chris Ogniben
 Subj : Re: Cybersex
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

CO>  adult forum, would be better off than to bring them in here, where
CO>  all
CO>  the gonna get, is people telling how stupid they are.

   So far, I've only heard *you* do this....

   I dare say we've treated the subject reasonably discretly. Human motivations
and drives will be the same, even in the posession of increasingly advanced
technology. Sex is surely a major human drive, and movies like Brainstorm and
The Lawnmower Man (from which this thread started) show some possible
ramifications...not all of them good. That's what SF, in part, is for.

   Frank


--- QuickBBS 2.80 GoldBase (Zeta-1)
 * Origin: The Matrix Data Bank BBS, Rochester, Ny (1:2613/477)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 38 of 284
 From : Frank Glover                        1:2613/477      .îí 12 .åâ 96 23:17
 To   : Owen E. Oulton
 Subj : Re: Star Trek Generations
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

OE>  The above is one of the most persistantly misunderstood passages put
OE>  into print.  The Nova Class is a preliminary design study for a
OE>  starship class which won't even be designed for several decades.
OE>  That the E-E *might* be of the class was based on the idea that the
OE>  E-D would not need to be replaced until then.  Of course, since it
OE>  was destroyed, it needs to be replaced a lot earlier than
OE>  anticipated.  However, it's a pretty good bet that it won't be a Nova
OE>  Class.

  Agreed. Besides, at least two other Galaxy-class ships have been lost (Yamato
and Odyssey). I have to assume that Starfleet would simply replace them with new
Galaxy-class ships (with perhaps some minor upgrades, like that dilithium
assembly Geordi has spoken of), simply to keep up whatever strength is deemed
necessary. (Espically with possible threats from the Klingons and the Gamma
Quadrant...or a return of the Borg.)

   I would now guess they'd go that route, just as Kirk was given a new ship of
the same class....

   Frank


--- QuickBBS 2.80 GoldBase (Zeta-1)
 * Origin: The Matrix Data Bank BBS, Rochester, Ny (1:2613/477)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 39 of 284
 From : Mark Jones                          1:105/302.47    .óá 10 .åâ 96 00:49
 To   : Keith Stokes
 Subj : Independence Day
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On (08 Feb 96) Keith Stokes wrote to Nicolai Shapero...

 KS> NS>There's supposed to be a new movie coming out Real Soon Now,
 KS> NS>title INDEPENDENCE DAY about first contact.  Unpleasant first
 KS> NS>contact.  (Clip showed a government building in Wash. DC
 KS> NS>being blown to flinders...)
 KS>
 KS> The last time that I saw a trailer for this one(about a month ago),
 KS> it said "coming this summer."

   I saw the trailer for Independence Day just today (I went to see
Broken Arrow--SEE IT!).  According to the trailer I saw, it opens July
3rd.

   As for the movie itself...I dunno.  It had some cool effects.  HUGE
mucking shadows sliding across immense tracts of land (it reminded me
of the happy-face ship in HEAVY METAL).  Then you got watch some kind
of flaming wall o'death blasting down a city street, flinging cars
around like toys and vaporizing hapless pedestrians.  Then you saw a
death ray explode the White House.
   Nothing much else.  No hint of what the aliens are like (aside from
obviously hostile), nor even whether we ever see them.  Nor, despite
the tagline ("Independe Day--the day we start fighting back!"), do I
see any plausible way we COULD fight back.  They've got the high
ground, superior technology and have already apparently located our
centers of government and annihilated them.


--- PPoint 1.78
 * Origin: Folcroft Sanitarium (hsmith@cure.com) (1:105/302.47)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 40 of 284
 From : Mark Jones                          1:105/302.47    .îí 12 .åâ 96 01:18
 To   : Tommy Kellerman
 Subj : Alien threats?
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On ( 5 Feb 96) Tommy Kellerman wrote to Frank Glover...

 TK> Nuke us? Why would they? We are a quite peaceful race, living in a
 TK> world which still has blue oceans and fertile agricultural areas. If
 TK> they nuked us they wouldn't have the living world of today before
 TK> them, just a sterile lifeless rock. I don't know, but I don't think
 TK> this is their purpose.

   Why would they nuke us?  Why *wouldn't* they nuke us?  I can think
of a number of reasons for them to nuke us.

1.  They're an alien form of life.  They can't use our environment
(and therefore have no compunctions about destroying it), but consider
us a potential threat--we might get out and compete with them for
resources.  So they eradicate us.

2.  We are unwilling and/or unable to worship their god(s).  Maybe we
find their religion silly.  Maybe we *can't* perform the proper
rituals of worship because we don't have the physiology required.  In
any case, our failure to worship is an unforgiveable sin--so they nuke
us out of existence.

3.  We occupy a planet they can't use (they require a different
environment), but which an enemy race *could*.  So they destroy the
planet (and us) to prevent the enemy from using it.  [This is an old
and hallowed technique here on earth during warfare....]

4.  We are violating any number of potential religious, political,
economic or social taboos--or are failing to comply with any number of
religious, political, economic or social customs.  And they find our
behavior absolutely unforgiveable.  So they eradicate us.


--- PPoint 1.78
 * Origin: Folcroft Sanitarium (hsmith@cure.com) (1:105/302.47)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 41 of 284
 From : Jon Helis                           1:3800/25       .îí 29 .íâ 96 21:26
 To   : Chris Ogniben
 Subj : Re: Dangerous Babes
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 -=> Quoting Chris Ogniben to Jon Helis <=-

 CO> I seen every episode since this series ever started.  But, i have
 CO> to admit, that i may forget a few things.  Since i just watch the
 CO> episode, and want to talk about it then move on.  But, i do remember
 CO> the episode that you are talking about.  Where Hawks founded a family
 CO> member, his sister.  Who was also an invetro.  But, with the rebellion
 CO> that they had to shut down the life support in the invetro area,
 CO> killing off his sister.  He was only able to see who she was, and what
 CO> she looked like.  But, otherwise i guess he lost the only family
 CO> member he would have had.  One thing is for sure, and that was it was a
 CO> good episode.  The one that i liked was the one where there was this
 CO> comet, and Vansen and the other's on baord the transport used the comet
 CO> in order to move them back into an area that they were rescued.  It was
 CO> one of my favorite episodes.  I really like the idea of what they did
 CO> with this new series.  But, there is still a lot more to learn of the
 CO> chigs, since i havn't been able to see a straight face, if there is
 CO> one, other than helmets and green guts.

That episode just aired this week.  It wasn't a bad episode at
all, we got to learn more about the Inveteros.

The comet episode was good too.  I was skeptical of the show
when I first heard about it, but liked it when it started up.
We need to learn a little more about the Chigs though.  They did
an episode about the A.I.s, and have shown that there is some
kind of alliance between the two.

All in all, it's a great series, it hasn't tried to copy Star
Trek, it's gone off on its own and done quite well.




... We cannot direct the wind but we can adjust the sails.
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

--- PCBoard (R) v15.22/M 10
 * Origin: * DataCom BBS - Baton Rouge, La. -  (504)275-2605 - @dcbbs.com *
(1:3800/25)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 42 of 284
 From : Jon Helis                           1:3800/25       .îí 29 .íâ 96 21:31
 To   : Samantha Dobbs
 Subj : Re: Space: Above & Beyond
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 -=> Quoting Samantha Dobbs to Rene Nieuwenhuizen <=-

 SD> Hi Rene!

 SD> I hated the show when it started!! It was on the same time as
 SD> 60Minutes! Now I don't give a **** if I miss 60 Minutes. S:AAB is
 SD> great!! I am on two mailing lists called Space-L and JMDG-l JM is for
 SD> fans of James Morrison. I even got his email address! He is very sweet.
 SD> (And yes I AM kissing butt!) I hear some of the cast read the alt and
 SD> news bases!

 SD> Samantha Dobbs
 SD> ac050@freenet.durham.org
 SD> samantha.dobbs@adra.gryn.org

I like James Morrison's character of McQueen.  McQueen is like
half commanding officer, half big brother to his people.
However, he still faces the prejudice from others because he is
a "tank."

Has Morrison done any other shows or films?




... Tribble + Q = Energizer Bunny
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

--- PCBoard (R) v15.22/M 10
 * Origin: * DataCom BBS - Baton Rouge, La. -  (504)275-2605 - @dcbbs.com *
(1:3800/25)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 43 of 284
 From : Jon Helis                           1:3800/25       .îí 29 .íâ 96 23:37
 To   : Paul Goverts
 Subj : Re: NOWHERE MAN
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 -=> Quoting Paul Goverts to Jon Helis <=-

 -=> Quoting Jon Helis to Chris Myers <=-

 JH> Nowhere Man airs on the United Paramount Network(UPN), the same
 JH> outfit that airs Star Trek:Voyager.  The show comes on after
 JH> Voyager on Monday nights.  I don't know if it is aired on any
 JH> non-UPN stations like Voyager is.  Check your listings for it.

 PG> Yes, it is.  Our local FOX affialite has been running many of the UPN
 PG> programs as well.  Only problem is they show nowhere man like at
 PG> 12:30AM on Sunday nights...  STVOY they show in the evenings on the
 PG> weekend though.

I know what that's like.  I enjoy watching DS9, even more so
since this season has gotten more interesting, with the addition
of Michael Dorn and other things.

Our local NBC affiliate airs the show Sunday nights at 11.
Unfortunately, I have to be at work Monday morning at 7:45 a.m.!
 I end up having to tape the show, which isn't always easy,
since if sports airs on NBC, the show is delayed.  With football
season over, your FOX affiliate probably won't delay Nowhere Man
anymore.





... Even our best footage won't stop them! - Crow T. Robot
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

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(1:3800/25)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 44 of 284
 From : Jon Helis                           1:3800/25       .îí 29 .íâ 96 23:39
 To   : Frank Glover
 Subj : Re: SLIDERS/ANY NEWS?
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 -=> Quoting Frank Glover to Frank Swarbrick <=-

 FG> @MSGID: 1:2613/477 31059916

 FS>  As for VR.5, I don't remember mentioning it in my message (you really
 FS>  should use quotes), but it only lasted a few months in the spring of
 FS>  1995.  A shame, because it was getting interesting, but the first few
 FS>  episodes were pretty bad and lost most of the possible fan base...
 FG>
 FG> I keep hoping that they'll come back with a special or two and tie
 FG> up loose ends, like Alien Nation has. But, as you say, it didn't run
 FG> long enough to get anything like Alien Nation's base of fans.

Alien Nation only ran for one season, that was enough to build
up the fan base.  How long did VR5 run?


... I call things as I see them; If I didn't see them, I make them up!
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

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(1:3800/25)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 45 of 284
 From : Jon Helis                           1:3800/25       .îí 29 .íâ 96 23:49
 To   : Barton Paul Levenson
 Subj : Re: weird tv
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 -=> Quoting Barton Paul Levenson to Frank Swarbrick <=-

 BPL> Don't forget the wonderful, thoughtful British import, UFO, which took
 BPL> an absurd premise and made some spectacular TV SF out of it.  It took
 BPL> place ten years in the future, in (gasp) 1980!  When there would be a
 BPL> base on the Moon and intelligent robot spacecraft in Earth orbit.  I
 BPL> haven't seen it on the air in years, alas.

A few months ago, U.F.O was running on the Sci-FI Channel a few
months ago(I don't get it now, so can't say if it still is).  I
thought it was a good series too.  The premise was hard to
swallow, but the episodes I saw weren't too bad.  The show is
out on home video now, I saw copies on sale at a Con recently.
These were commercially made, not bootlegs as far as I could
tell(They were in factory boxes).

It was Gerry and Sylvia Anderson's first live action series
after doing supermarionation for so long.  After this series
came thier most famous series, Space:1999.




... "Ed, Go see who's at the door" -Last words RUSTY & EDIE's
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

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(1:3800/25)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 46 of 284
 From : Jon Helis                           1:3800/25       .ÿò 02 .åâ 96 16:08
 To   : Owen E. Oulton
 Subj : Re: Star Trek
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 -=> Quoting Owen E. Oulton to Frank Glover <=-

 OEO> @MSGID: 1:243/45.0 31101fc6
 FG>    This would be interesting. She also seemed to know a
 FG> fair amount about Data. (espically for someone not
 FG> originally part of Starfleet) How much information on

 OEO> Torres was originally part of StarFleet.  She completed most of
 OEO> StarFleet Academy before leaving and becoming a Maquis.  She's also had
 OEO> a year of reading up on StarFleet engineering in order to do her job as
 OEO> Chief Engineer, so it's not too surprising for her to be aware of Data.

In "Caretaker," as well as in "The Cloud," we found out that
Torres had attended Starfleet Academy, but was thrown out.
After that, she joined the Maquis.  I don't remember what she
did to get expelled, but she apparently was a good student in
some areas.  According to her file, one of her professors
offered to back her if she chose to reapply to the academy.






... "Fidonet is about communications.  Tell your friends."
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

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Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 47 of 284
 From : Jon Helis                           1:3800/25       .ÿò 02 .åâ 96 16:50
 To   : Dean Sweatman
 Subj : Messages
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
I have been posting, not in volume, but posting. 3 messages
went out of here on January 27 and 5 January 29, and 2(including
this one) on February 2(tonight), have you seen them?

My messages are getting out, because I have seen replies to
them.  Look under the titles "Dangerous Babes," "Nowhere Man,"
or "Space: Above and Beyond."  I haven't received any replies
from the New Orleans(396) area, but I have heard from as far
away as New Jersey and Canada.  I just hope there isn't a
net problem in your area.

I'm sending this message through Email and on SFFAN.  It's going
out tonight(February 2), please let me know when you receive
each copy.  There maybe some delay getting from here to there.

Catch ya later...

Number Six




... We cannot direct the wind but we can adjust the sails.
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

--- PCBoard (R) v15.22/M 10
 * Origin: * DataCom BBS - Baton Rouge, La. -  (504)275-2605 - @dcbbs.com *
(1:3800/25)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 48 of 284
 From : Jon Helis                           1:3800/25       .óá 03 .åâ 96 05:26
 To   : All
 Subj : Space:Above and Beyond
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Who saw Space:Above and Beyond on Sunday?

I'm curious as to the opinions of the new opening sequence, with
McQueen giving a speech about the war and being Invitro.  I
think it's pretty good, of course, I think McQueen is one of the
best on the show.  As for the other great characters, I'm tossed
up between Vansen and Hawkes as my other favorite.

Write Back!



... Modem.... A deterrent to phone solicitors.
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

--- PCBoard (R) v15.22/M 10
 * Origin: * DataCom BBS - Baton Rouge, La. -  (504)275-2605 - @dcbbs.com *
(1:3800/25)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 49 of 284
 From : Jon Helis                           1:3800/25       .óá 03 .åâ 96 07:50
 To   : Frank Glover
 Subj : Re: X-FILES
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 -=> Quoting Frank Glover to Robert Lidgren <=-


 RL>  BTW, I have heard from some people that they hate it when we get a
 RL>  Mulder
 RL>  "voice-over."  What do you think?  I kind of like it because
 RL>  voice-overs are
 RL>  the only way to get DIRECTLY inside a character's thinking/feeling
 RL>  processes.
 FG>
 FG> I think it's a good idea as well. It would be interesting to hear a
 FG> Scully voice-over sometime, if the episode was a particularly moving
 FG> one for her.
 FG>
 FG> Frank

She did a segment congratulating "America's Most Wanted" on it's
400th capture last weekend.  She said something along the lines
of '400 captures and not one vampire or alien, come on, get with
the program.'

I found it rather amusing.


... To boldly go where no sane man has any business.
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

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(1:3800/25)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 50 of 284
 From : Jon Helis                           1:3800/25       .óá 03 .åâ 96 09:18
 To   : Dean Sweatman
 Subj : Star Trek:Voyager
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
That Con report you wrote was last month was pretty good.  Did
you ever get any repsonses to it?

... Enter any 12-digit prime number to continue.
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

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(1:3800/25)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 51 of 284
 From : Jon Helis                           1:3800/25       .óá 03 .åâ 96 12:02
 To   : All
 Subj : Hurricon
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 * Originally By: Dean Sweatman
 * Originally To: Jon Helis
 * Originally Re: Hurricon
 * Original Area: EMail
 * Forwarded by : Blue Wave v2.12

@TO     :jon.helis                                                   N
@FROM   :dean.sweatman@btower.com                                    N
@UMSGID :<9602090847324163@btower.com>                               N
@From dean.sweatman@btower.com  Fri Feb  9 08:00:36 1996
@Received: from tetsuo.communique.net (Tetsuo.Communique.Net [204.27.64.10]) by
altmail.holonet.net with ESMTP
@ id IAA04045; Fri, 9 Feb 1996 08:00:36 -0800
@Received: (from btower@localhost) by tetsuo.communique.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) id
JAA59508 for jon.helis@dcbbs.com; Fri, 9 Feb 1996 09:59:15 -0600
@Received: by btower.com (wcGATE v4)
@ id 37244W Fri,  9 Feb 1996 13:47:32 GMT
From: dean.sweatman@btower.com (Dean Sweatman)
Subject: Hurricon
Date: Fri,  9 Feb 1996 11:18:00 GMT
@Message-Id: <9602090847324163@btower.com>
@Organization: Black Tower BBS!, NEW ORLEANS, La.
@To: jon.helis@dcbbs.com

 * Originally By: Jo Peshek
 * Originally To: Dean Sweatman
 * Originally Re: Hurricon
 * Original Date: 02-06-96  11:51
 * Original Area: S_F_LITERATU
 * Forwarded by : Blue Wave/DOS v2.20

 DS> Have a safe trip...

Had.  We left Slidell at about 7:30 pm and were on the
foyer at San Destin Beach Hilton (love Hiltons) at
1:30.  The drive isn't that long, but it was soup-
foggy when we hit the beach area at Pensacola.  Coming
back was much faster and easier, left at 4 pm, got
home at 9:30 with one meal stop (Captain D's for Long-
John-Silveresque fish NOT dipt in cornmeal batter. Yum.
Say, did you know there is a Captain D's in Gulfport?
I JUST FOUND OUT!!  :>  ) and one thaw-out hot cocoa
break.

 DS> ...will be looking forward to your con-comments
 DS> upon your return.

Errrr.  (...if you can't say something nice, shut up?)
Oh, well, I suppose.  The scheduled BN guests, Clive
Barker and P.J. Farmer weren't there.  Peter Beagle
did manage to make it; a VERY nice man with a lot to
say (good thing too, being 1/3 of the bill but having
to carry the thing all by himself).  Several N.O. fen
showed up, including Robert Nagel, Sam Hill (Slidell
actually) and Frank ? (managed dealers room at Coast-
Con).  And a nice Steve from N.O.  And we got to visit
with dealers we'd met at other cons and made new
friends too.

Okay, that was the good news.  The rest of it is a major
bitch session.  :(  Altho there were oodles of people
running around with concom badges, the concom consisted
of one person, "Steve." Asking a question, any question,
elicited the response, "Gee, you'll have to ask Steve."
variously phrased, "Umm, Steve knows about that, you'll
have to ask him."  And if you did ask Steve, his
response was usually "10 minutes." no matter what the
question was.  :)  <--forced.

Con failures:  Programming frequently was moved from room
to room but no signs were posted stating any changes.
(Ask Steve.)  Programs often just didn't occur.  Event
times and places were changed without public notice where
a quickly scrawled sign would have helped (Ask Steve.),
events often failed to come off at all.  The word finally
went out Saturday evening that no, there wouldn't be a
Hospitality room, up to that time, it was "10 minutes"
away.  The con started at noon Friday, badges and programs
weren't available until late Friday evening, but also
always "10 minutes" away.  When the programs did appear,
there was no layout for the convention, no map.
Condsidering that the main programming took place in the
"boardroom" and there were *two* boardrooms in the hotel,
this lent to the general confusion.  Another hastily
scrawled sign would have alleviated this problem too. The
actual boardroom had seating for 12.  I managed to find a
Peter Beagle panel *once*.  I also caught up with the art
auction, which was 3 hours off schedule and included the
charity auction which was supposed to take place the
previous day.  Are we having fun yet?

From our (Dealers) POV:  Steve had the plans for the
dealer's room arrangement in his head, and altho we were
told we could start setting up at 8 am we didn't get our
tables until 11, and the con started at noon?  Steve felt
the state should have contacted him about the sales tax
situation so we didn't know how much or if to charge
sales tax until about 5 pm Friday (5 hours after I
informed him that no, HE was supposed to contact the tax
authorities, not the other way around).  We had no badges
either.  There were no rules posted anywhere for the
dealers room, nobody checking badges, no security.  And
altho there were empty tables IN the dealers room proper,
they allowed dealers to set up in the hall outside the
room creating the view that the hall was the entire
dealers room.  Folks who stumbled upon the rest of us
commented frequently, "Gee, I didn't even know you were
here."  Since there were no rules for the room, we found
ourselves in the position of asking a bunch of gamers
who decided to occupy two of the empty tables to stop
setting their cokes on our bookshelves, please don't sit
on the bookshelves, please don't block our display, etc.,
etc.  I won't mention the torrential downpour all day
Friday, but will mention that we were supposed to have
access to the loading dock, per Steve, but not per the
hotel, apparently.  A local game dealer who has a
permanent storefront said his store did a better
business than he did at the con, and this with a
concentrated population of gamers AT the con. (Hurricon
is a gaming con, but so is CoastCon and we sell *lotsa*
books at CoastCon).

On the other hand:  Our room was GORGEOUS!!  The view
of the ocean was GORGEOUS.  The sound of the pounding
surf was wonderful!!  And the Hilton gave us these
neat little Hilton Charge Cards...  :>  Aw, I'm a
sucker for a good hotel.  The hotel and staff made
Hurricon bearable.  The elevators, some of which were
under repairs, still worked well (aside from the fact
that masses of people checked out at 11 am daily and
tied up the elevators then).  The weather was awful.
Ooh, we went to dinner out of the hotel Saturday night
and I got slapped in the face by a windchill that was
reported at 0 degrees.  It hurt.  :(

Now, will I ever willingly go back to a Hurricon? Not
me, buddy.  Not unless they *really* get their act
together (or hold it at the San Destin Beach
Hilton...)  :>

We parked the cats at Animal Care Unlimited in Lacombe,
they were all fine and healthy when we picked them up
Monday.  AND Porsche got a bath over the weekend.  Now,
back to the daily grind.  Next, CoastCon in March.

... .                                               0-m

___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20

-!- Maximus 2.01wb
 ! Origin: The Fire Scene BBS-HST-(504)641-4789 (1:390/2)


... Dean Sweatman's Continuing and Relentless quest toward Fuggheadedness

___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20 [NR]
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

--- PCBoard (R) v15.22/M 10
 * Origin: * DataCom BBS - Baton Rouge, La. -  (504)275-2605 - @dcbbs.com *
(1:3800/25)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 52 of 284
 From : Jon Helis                           1:3800/25       .óá 03 .åâ 96 19:14
 To   : Channon Lang
 Subj : Re: Star Trek
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 -=> Quoting Channon Lang to Kim Wheat <=-

 CL> @MSGID: 1:130/809.0 311d0f45
 CL> #PID: BWRA 3.11 [Eval]
 CL> @TID: GE 1.11+

 KW> As for V'ger....nope....forget it....can't take any of them. Plots
 KW> are stupid, Janeway should be courtmartialed, and keep waiting for
 KW> a superior captain w/ a superior ship to blown V'ger outta the
 KW> spaceways! <g> (But then again, I felt that way with TNG when it
 KW> first started, being one of them "Nothing can replace Kirk & Company"
 KW> fanatics....I got better!) <g>
 CL>
 CL> Yeah, I know what you mean. I was that way about TNG, too. My dad
 CL> still refuses to watch DS9, but somehow he tolerates V'ger. I keep
 CL> trying to give V'ger the benefit of the doubt. But, to tell you what,
 CL> if they don't start doing MUCH better, I'll have to finally write it
 CL> off. Actually, I like Janeway, but the writers need to really start
 CL> working...maybe get some writers from TNG or something...or start
 CL> totally new...who knows.
 CL> Channon
 CL> ... "Bother", said Pooh, as Kirk beamed him down in a red shirt
 CL> -!- MachoEcho 0.5ñ
 CL>  ! Origin: The State of Confusion * Arlington Tx * 817-274-1920 *
 CL> (1:130/809) @SEEN!BY: 270/101 280/1 396/1 3615/50 51
 CL> @PATH: 130/809 35 509 1008 396/1 3615/50

When I first heard about TNG, I thought it would be hard to top
the original.  Once it started, I changed my mind.  Like you, I
think it got better too.

I enjoy watching DS9, but Voyager, sometimes it's good, while at
other times, outright disappointing.  This inconsistency is
slowly starting to push me away.  Unless they start coming up
with good scripts, I may write it off too.

The ghosts of Battlestar Galactica and Space 1999 still haunt me
when I see Voyager.




... Where'd my soldering iron go, and why's my pocket smoking?
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

--- PCBoard (R) v15.22/M 10
 * Origin: * DataCom BBS - Baton Rouge, La. -  (504)275-2605 - @dcbbs.com *
(1:3800/25)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 53 of 284
 From : Earl Green                          1:3822/1        .òp 13 .åâ 96 04:15
 To   : All
 Subj : B5 icons, anyone?
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
For anyone who's been waiting for some manner of B5 icons, my first
foray into the world of Windows icons is now available on Jackalope
Junction as EARLICOS.ZIP.  It includes an EA badge icon (not bad, if I
do say so myself), and a kooky looking Kosh head (you be the judge)...
enjoy!
       e  <-- Earl Green (earl.green@3822-1.mx1.fidonet.org)  1:3822/1
            Graphics/animation artist, KPBI Fox 46/15 & KFDF UPN 32/36
---
 * SLMR 2.0 * Talk is cheap on satellite, but all I get is static.

--- QScan/PCB v1.17b / 01-0162
 * Origin: Jackalope Junction 501-785-5381 Ft Smith AR (1:3822/1)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 54 of 284
 From : Kay Shapero                         1:102/524       .îí 12 .åâ 96 18:06
 To   : Tommy Kellerman
 Subj : Ufo
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Feb 05 20:41>, Tommy Kellerman (2:205/356) wrote to David Johnston:

 TK>You can't estimate the distance to a star, and maybe not to this
 TK>either, but it was much more closer than a satellite or a star,
 TK>and it kept on dropping
 TK>these shooting stars on the ground, so I can't accept the idea of

Hmm... sounds to me like a bolide seen head on.  This is a big enough meteorite
to make a spectacular display on the way in, shedding bits and lighting up the
sky.  Since they're constantly changing shape due to the shed fragments and
general burnoff, along with being pretty irregular to begin with, their paths
tend to be erratic, with frequent abrupt course changes.  Some make it all the
way to the ground; usually they either burn out or explode in the upper
atmosphere.  The one time I had the fortune to see one I nearly missed it; I was
up in the mountains at a starwatching party, and had retired to my bedroll with
a splitting headache.  I woke up at the sounds of people exclaiming, looked up,
and was just in time to see the thing explode, lighting up the whole area.
There was a moment of silence, followed by wild applause and cries of "Author!
Author!"

--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 55 of 284
 From : Kay Shapero                         1:102/524       .îí 12 .åâ 96 18:03
 To   : Chris Carter
 Subj : syzygy
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Feb 11 06:23>, Chris Carter (1:105/290.23) wrote to Todd Sullivan:

 CC>Please don't tell me a syzygy occurred when the Communications
 CC>Decency Act was signed into law.

Naw, *that* was a stupidity.

--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 56 of 284
 From : Debbie Bickford                     1:203/996       .òp 13 .åâ 96 12:07
 To   : Kay Shapero
 Subj : Virtual Reality
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12  91-0092

-> On <Jan 18 22:13>, Frank Glover (1:2613/477) wrote to Christian Raven
->
-> FG>   And more to your point is `Total Recall.' What indeed if
-> FG>youcould submerge an old personality and set of memories under a
-> FG>new one...and the new one upon learning of this, still seeks to
-> FG>preserve his own identity? (If you saw the movie, the scene where
-> FG>Arnie's character is pursuaded that all his experiences prior to,
-> FG>and on Mars were the virtual experience he'd asked for [and even
->
-> And if you think that was strange, read the Philip K. Dick short stor
-> which it was (very loosely) based "We Can Remember It For You Wholesa
-> As will surprise nobody familiar with Dick, it's far weirder than the
-> dared to get. :->
->

Kay, Long time since I've popped in here (years?) - it's good to see you
and the Mad Russian still running things.
Have you seen James Hogan's new _Alternate Reality_?  It's another
intriguing look at VR and AR.  Now, if I could just find my copy and see
how it turns out...

--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12
 * Origin: Xanth-Wildcat 4.12 Sac CA 916-364-1826 28800 V34  (1:203/996.0)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 57 of 284
 From : Debbie Bickford                     1:203/996       .òp 13 .åâ 96 12:17
 To   : David Johnston
 Subj : Re: Star Trek Comics
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12  91-0092

-> -> SM>  DC and Marvel are merging in the end of Feburary. I've heard
-> -> this
-> -> There's a major crossover series coming, but actually merging? Not
-> -> to my knowledge.
->
-> For one week, as part of the crossover, 12 issues will be printed
-> under the "Amalgam" imprint.  It will include "Bruce Wayne, Agent of
-> Shield", "Super-Soldier", "Spider-Boy", "JLX", and "Doctor
-> Strangefate", along with other concepts hybridised between the two
-> companies.
->

And Maggie Thompson, of Comic Buyers Guide fame, has seen an advance
copy of Spider-Kid and is very impressed with it.  Of course, some of
the best in the two companies are involved, so with any kind of luck at
all the rest will be up to the quality of that one.

--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12
 * Origin: Xanth-Wildcat 4.12 Sac CA 916-364-1826 28800 V34  (1:203/996.0)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 58 of 284
 From : Dean Sweatman                       1:396/40        .òp 13 .åâ 96 16:47
 To   : Jon Helis
 Subj : Messages
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: InterEcho 1.12 6E010867

-=> Quoting Jon Helis to Dean Sweatman <=-

 JH> I have been posting, not in volume, but posting. 3 messages
 JH> went out of here on January 27 and 5 January 29, and 2(including
 JH> this one) on February 2(tonight), have you seen them?

 JH> My messages are getting out, because I have seen replies to
 JH> them.  Look under the titles "Dangerous Babes," "Nowhere Man,"
 JH> or "Space: Above and Beyond."  I haven't received any replies
 JH> from the New Orleans(396) area, but I have heard from as far
 JH> away as New Jersey and Canada.  I just hope there isn't a
 JH> net problem in your area.

 JH> I'm sending this message through Email and on SFFAN.  It's going
 JH> out tonight(February 2), please let me know when you receive
 JH> each copy.  There maybe some delay getting from here to there.

 JH> Catch ya later...

 JH> Number Six

960213 (2/13)
I am happy to report that your traffic showed up on Reunion today some 12
messages dated between 1/29 and 2/03.  What ever the log jam was it seems now to
have been cleared.  The traffic as not made it to Black Tower as yet but may
arrive there later tonight or tomorrow depending on when he next gets a connect
to the system.  Black Tower closes down on the 15th ... another good board lost
due to lack of interest by the user base.<sigh>

Fiawol

... Dean Sweatman's Continuing and Relentless quest toward Fuggheadedness

___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20 [NR]


--- InterEcho 1.12
 * Origin: REUNION BBS, Harahan, La., USA (504) 738-5162 Try God (1:396/40)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 59 of 284
 From : Dean Sweatman                       1:396/40        .òp 13 .åâ 96 16:57
 To   : Jon Helis
 Subj : con report
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: InterEcho 1.12 6E010867

-=> Quoting Jon Helis to Dean Sweatman <=-

 JH> That Con report you wrote was last month was pretty good.  Did
 JH> you ever get any repsonses to it?

Not much.  Someone took issue with my comments re Brent Spiner not showing up
but it was otherwise ignored.

Coast Con is upcoming on the Mississippi Gulf Coast (Biloxi) at the end of
March.  Are you Game?

Fiawol
... Dean Sweatman's Continuing and Relentless quest toward Fuggheadedness

___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20 [NR]


--- InterEcho 1.12
 * Origin: REUNION BBS, Harahan, La., USA (504) 738-5162 Try God (1:396/40)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 60 of 284
 From : Owen E. Oulton                      1:243/45        .îí 12 .åâ 96 04:29
 To   : Tommy Kellerman
 Subj : X-FILES
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 TK> In a message dated 31-Jan-96 20:46:02, Owen E. Oulton wrote:

 FS> syzygy: a pair of things, eps. a pair of opposites

Actually, I didn't write that, I replied to it, but...

 TK> How do you pronounce this word?

It's pronounced "si-zidj-ey."

CFN, O

--- Maximus 2.01wb
 * Origin: Pandora's Box, Ottawa, Ont. 613-829-1209 (1:243/45)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 61 of 284
 From : Owen E. Oulton                      1:243/45        .îí 12 .åâ 96 04:40
 To   : Barton Paul Levenson
 Subj : Re: Star Trek Sexism
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 BPL> I said "individuals."  Group differences really are irrelevant.  Your
 BPL> mentally retarded individual would not pass the tests to be a starship
 BPL> Captain.  But everyone should have a right to take the tests.

Uh, no...  Everyone should have the right to apply to StarFleet and work their
way up.  If they can't make the grade at a lower level, they should not be able
to apply to take the tests for a higher level.

 BPL> The situation in the last episode of the third season of the original,
 BPL> where women per se were not allowed to command starships, is immoral.
 BPL> (And also showed a serious failure of imagination on Gene Roddenberry's
 BPL> part.)

Gene wasn't really involved with the show at all at that point.  Gene had had a
woman as XO of the Enterprise in his original pilot - remember Number One?
Since the XO of a ship succeeds to command if the Captain is killed or becomes
incapacitated, women could quite obviously command starships within StarFleet.
I put the line down to the fact that Janice Lester was certifiably insane.  She
failed the psych tests for the command programme and decided on her own that it
was because she was a woman.  She was wrong.

CFN, O

--- Maximus 2.01wb
 * Origin: Pandora's Box, Ottawa, Ont. 613-829-1209 (1:243/45)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 62 of 284
 From : Ecarey                              1:101/230       .îí 12 .åâ 96 12:13
 To   : Darre Luallen
 Subj : RE: STAR TREK
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 >  Most of the cultures you elude to have a strict policy of keeping
 > the
 >  people necessary to creating the future food gathers out of the
 > path of
 >  wild animals.  Stop to think what would happen to a village if all
 > the
 >  women were killed off because some stupid hunter caused the animal
 > to
 >  charge the wrong way.  Go on, I'll wait. (Hum.  Hum.  HumHum.)

Darre, you're making the wildly optimistic assumption that Christian _realizes_
that women in "primitive" cultures were the main food-gatherers, and that the
meat the men hunted was an addition, not a staple. I personally doubt that he
does realize this.

--- FLAME v1.0
 * Origin: Withouta Net - Drop In Anytime! - 617/846-5416 (1:101/230)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 63 of 284
 From : Kim Wheat                           1:271/285       .îí 12 .åâ 96 17:21
 To   : Chris Carter
 Subj : Star Trek
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
---<<*<<< Chris dazzled Buc Wheat with these words of wisdom!! >>>**>>----

 KW> I've watched Chris since his first msg....and have started looking
 KW> into card shops for this really, really large sympathy card for
 KW> Nicolai! <g> She has the patience of a saint, she does!! :)

 CC> No, but Nicolai's wife probably does... ;~)

 You know, Chris....I should be the LAST person to get gender
 confused??!

 And have no idea why I always thought Nicolai was Kay's SISTER??!! <g>

 Could I throw myself on the court and exclaim that 'Nicolai' is
 much to close to 'Nicole' and for some unscientific reason the
 brain always pronounced it 'Nicole'??!

 (I refuse...simply refuse, to give creedence to "It's was the 60's,
 Kim") <g>

 Kim :)


... "Boy! I feel like the Democratic Party!" -Opus, Bloom County
--- GEcho 1.00
 * Origin: From Trekkies & from B5ers who hate Trek save us! (1:271/285.0)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 64 of 284
 From : Kim Wheat                           1:271/285       .îí 12 .åâ 96 17:27
 To   : The Raven
 Subj : Bred to Conquer
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
---<<*<<< The dazzled Buc Wheat with these words of wisdom!! >>>**>>----

 TR> Well, to each his own... I have the same exact reaction to a
 TR> bunch of writers, and have been called on it by folks here and around
 TR> more than once. (You should have seen the reaction people had to my
 TR> opinions on Tolkein... you'd have thought I took a dump on the Mona
 TR> Lisa.)

 Hah! Jack, meet Kim.....Kim, Jack! Where were you when I was getting
 kicked around in the SF Lit echo??!! You could have at least /warned/
 me about the high pedestal that ol' JRR has been erected to around
 these parts!! <G>

  Kim :)  Been there, done that, got the bloody nose to prove it! ;)


... O Lord, protect me from those to whom You speak directly.
--- GEcho 1.00
 * Origin: From Trekkies & from B5ers who hate Trek save us! (1:271/285.0)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 65 of 284
 From : Richard Sarner                      1:271/236       .òp 13 .åâ 96 12:02
 To   : Owen E. Oulton
 Subj : Re: Highlander 2: The Sickening
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE 1.11+
In a message to All <02-10-96 19:00> Owen E. Oulton wrote:

OE=> Highlander 2: The Quickening, labeled Renegade Version.  It
OE=> at?  Does it turn The Sickening into anything remoptely resembling a
OE=> watchable movie?

It is better, but if you are looking for a Highlander sequal, wait and see what
HL4 has to offer, or watch the show. They rearranged a few scenes, and cut out
the references to Zeist. The way to judge either version of HL2 is as an
actionSF film, rather than as a HL film. It is not too bad in that context.

--- GEcho 1.11+
 * Origin: THE TIME MACHINE (804)599-6401 TRAVEL THE PORTALS! (1:271/236)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 66 of 284
 From : Owen E. Oulton                      1:243/45        .òp 13 .åâ 96 13:04
 To   : Frank Glover
 Subj : Re: Star Trek Generations
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

FG>    I think we can assume there will be an Enterprise-E...one wonders what
FG> it will look like?

TS>  Seems to me the ship we say leaving orbit was a possibility.

 FG>   Didn't seem large enough for Enterprise's kind of long-duration
 FG> missions with lots of famalies. Big Galaxy-sized saucer, but no lower
 FG> decks.

The ship was Nebula Class, seen many times in TNG, and now seen every week
docked at DS9 in that show's opening credits.  It does have a secondary hull,
tucked up underneath the saucer, without the large dorsal.  A profile drawingof
the Nebula Class can be seen on page 318 of the Star Trek Encyclopedia.  It
would appear to be about 85% of the volume of the Galaxy Class.  Plenty big
enough.  However, I have it on pretty solid authority that the E-E is an all-new
design.

CFN, O

--- Maximus 2.01wb
 * Origin: Pandora's Box, Ottawa, Ont. 613-829-1209 (1:243/45)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 67 of 284
 From : Owen E. Oulton                      1:243/45        .òp 13 .åâ 96 13:14
 To   : Frank Glover
 Subj : Re: Star Trek Generations
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 FG> worry. Voyager-class ships seem too small for the kind
 FG> of long duration missions the Enterprise does. (Which
 FG> makes it all the harder for the one stuck 70.000 ly
 FG> from home.)

Leaving aside the fact that in TNG, the E-D didn't do *ANY* long duration
missions, rarely leaving the Federation, the Voyager is slightly larger than the
original Enterprise, which did do long-range exploration missions.

CFN, O

--- Maximus 2.01wb
 * Origin: Pandora's Box, Ottawa, Ont. 613-829-1209 (1:243/45)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 68 of 284
 From : Owen E. Oulton                      1:243/45        .òp 13 .åâ 96 13:16
 To   : Nicolai Shapero
 Subj : Star Trek Generations
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 NS> I thought that it was supposed to be Enterprise E.  I
 NS> don't remember the comment by Riker, so I'll obviously
 NS> have to dig out the tape and play it again.

Riker does, indeed, mention that he saved the ship from being mothballed.  Also,
when the E uncloaks and takes out the Klingon ships, the hull markings are
conspicuously displayed as she zips upward through the blast, and they say
NCC-1701-D.

CFN, O

--- Maximus 2.01wb
 * Origin: Pandora's Box, Ottawa, Ont. 613-829-1209 (1:243/45)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 69 of 284
 From : Owen E. Oulton                      1:243/45        .òp 13 .åâ 96 13:19
 To   : James Walton
 Subj : Star Wars Novelizations
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 JW> Hmm.  I know that some books become quite valuable.  I
 JW> may wrap this one in plastic, in that case.  I have a
 JW> first edition copy of "Splinter of the Mind's Eye" too.
 JW>

Bad idea.  Even if you used acid-free archival mylar, and changed it every five
years, you're still trapping all the acids which leach out of the paper in with
the book.

CFN, O

--- Maximus 2.01wb
 * Origin: Pandora's Box, Ottawa, Ont. 613-829-1209 (1:243/45)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 70 of 284
 From : Owen E. Oulton                      1:243/45        .òp 13 .åâ 96 13:25
 To   : Frank Glover
 Subj : Re: Star Trek Generations
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 FG>    BTW, having just wacthed ST: Generations this afternoon, does anyone
 FG> know who the older gentelman was who played the
 FG> Enterprise-B's communications officer? He *looked* for
 FG> allthe world like former astronaut Pete Conrad (who
 FG> once played himself in the made-for-tv movie
 FG> `Plymouth,' about a community displaced from their town
 FG> due to a toxic chemical accident,and moved to a Lunar
 FG> colony), but I'm not sure, and I don't think I saw the
 FG> character identified in the credits.

Yep.  He's identified as Com Officer, and was played ny Thomas Kopache.

CFN, O

--- Maximus 2.01wb
 * Origin: Pandora's Box, Ottawa, Ont. 613-829-1209 (1:243/45)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 71 of 284
 From : Kim Wheat                           1:271/285       .òp 13 .åâ 96 07:32
 To   : Nicolai Shapero
 Subj : Star Trek
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
---<<*<<< Nicolai dazzled Buc Wheat with these words of wisdom!! >>>**>>----

 KW>   I've watched Chris since his first msg....and have started
 KW>looking
 KW> into card shops for this really, really large sympathy card for
 KW> Nicolai! <g> She has the patience of a saint, she does!! :)

 NS> Excuse me, but I happen to be male.

 Hah! What a coincedence, Nicolai! So am I! (Think I'd avoid that
 trap better, uh??!) <g>

 Don't worry, shipmate...I'm STILL looking for that BIGGGGGG
 sympathy card for ya!! ;>

 Kim :)


... Sheesh, Dad could've named me 'Puff'!! :>
--- GEcho 1.00
 * Origin: From Trekkies & from B5ers who hate Trek save us! (1:271/285.0)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 72 of 284
 From : Marc Zingarelli                     1:226/110       .òp 13 .åâ 96 08:34
 To   : The Raven
 Subj : Adding to the List
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12  92-0004
THE RAVEN was overheard talking in "Joe's" about Adding to the List and
said:


TR>  "This just in from our Moscow bureau..."

TR> MZ> Where ya' been hiding?  Noticed on the highlander website that they
TR> MZ> are listing episodes in september (though the last 4 and the september
TR> MZ> episodes are listed TBA).  Does this mean we get a 5th season.

TR>     Its beginning to look like it.  I've seen the same things.

I also noticed that they are rebuilding the website this month some
time.  One might ask, why bother if you ain't gonna renew.

The highlander goddess purchased the second season (was there any
doubt).  And I just finished the episode where Tessa gets killed.  I
can't believe they cut the part where Richie comes back to life in the
U.S.  Do we get ripped of or what?!

Later

Marc
Internet:  marc.zingarelli@tcr.com

---
 * OLXWin 1.00b * Happiness is...Barney and a belt-fed weapon

--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12
 * Origin: The Computer Room-Pickerington, Oh (614)861-8377  (1:226/110.0)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 73 of 284
 From : Phill Ash                           1:275/160       .òp 13 .åâ 96 11:11
 To   : Judy Hayes
 Subj : STAR TREK SEXISM
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE 1.11+
From astride a Pale Horse, ùANATúô heard...

 PA> That's why I hate inputting that sort of thing... I never keep
 PA> articles laying around!  It was from an article in 'Time' or
 PA> 'Business Weekly'.

 JH> Oh, those....2 magazines run by men... |-D

        But if it ran in "Cosmopolitan" it'd be all right? <G>

 PA> Sure, it is!  If you're not so concerned about maintaining the
 PA> financial 'status quo' then surely one of you could take a few
 PA> years off from the workforce and practice homeschooling your
 PA> kids.  Chances are, they'd be better off for it!

 JH> Ha, ha, ha!  You've got to be kidding!  My poor children....I want
 JH> them to be well educated.  I know my own limitations and I really don't
 JH> think I'd make a very good teacher.  I'm a good mom and am very good at
 JH> teaching them values and common sense but as far as English (well,
 JH> maybe English would be okay), History, and Mathmatics (especially
 JH> mathmatics) goes there is *no way* that I am up to it.

        Bah!  By the time they've reached levels with which you have
        difficulty, you will have taught them how *to learn* with only
        minimal guidance from yourself.  Teaching children to learn is
        one of the major stumbling blocks of the US educational system.

 PA> There was a 3 year-old in England back in '93 who enjoyed
 PA> interacting with older children.  When his mother took him to
 PA> a mall, he walked away with 2 10 year-olds.  Becoming bored
 PA> with him, the 10 year-olds led him down by the railroad tracks
 PA> and smashed his skull in with a rock.  His body (or the remains
 PA> thereof) was found 3 weeks later.

 JH> But Phil, this has nothing to do with exposing children to a variety
 JH> of  backgrounds in a controlled school environment.

        Controlled school environment:  A situation in which children
        are educated based on their maturity and current achievement
        levels.

        Day-schools and their like too often have the tendency to allow,
        and in some cases force, children to interact outside of their
        peer groups.  The establishment of a "peer identity" is a vital
        part of the development of esteem and self-esteem.

 PA> Is a 'lone' parent *really* equipped to perform that function?
 PA> No.  The Day-care industry is proof of that.

 JH> In what way?  You're saying that because a child goes to day care that
 JH> a lone/single parent is unable to teach them good moral values?  I
 JH> wouldn't send my child into a Day Care environment where I did not feel
 JH> that they would teach my child the same type of values that I stressed
 JH> at home.  It would not be a resonable or responsible act.

        Ah!  *You* feel that that would be unreasonable and
        irresponsible, but (by virtue of the fact that you have
        successfully wielded the computer technology necessary to carry
        on this discourse) you are a few notches above the 'status quo'.

        The sad truth of the matter is that there are those who assume
        that because an establishment is "licensed", said establishment
        is going to assume *ALL* the educational responsibility for the
        child.

 JH> Thanks, pal!  I'll have to send for them both. Even though I may never
 JH> use the technical one, I'd like to have it for reference.  Do they
 JH> charge for their catalogues?

        $10-15, I think... I just rang them the other day to have a
        price-list sent.  They're apparently using the same catalogs
        that they'd issued in '88(!)


Your pal:  PhlAsh
---
 þ Ùystertags v1.1 þ this monster:  industry
~~~ ReneWave v1.01 [NR]
--- Smile :)
 * Origin: * The Beast's Lair * (804)498-3070 * Va Beach VA * (1:275/160)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 74 of 284
 From : Glenn Shaheen                       1:3600/7        .cê 11 .åâ 96 10:40
 To   : Nicolai Shapero
 Subj : Star Trek Generations
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

NS>We've already seen what it's going to look like...remember ALL GOOD
NS>THINGS?  (Three nacelles, yet...)

        But in All Good Things it was the Enterprise-D we saw, if you
do recall.
-=-
 * OLX 2.2 * Primordial soup for dinner again?

--- SLMAIL v3.5C  (#1540)
 * Origin: Robotech þ Lake City's Music*Demo BBS þ [904] 758*9477 (1:3600/7)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 75 of 284
 From : Chris Carter                        1:105/290.23    .òp 13 .åâ 96 05:43
 To   : Frank Glover
 Subj : Star Trek Generations
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On (11 Feb 96) Frank Glover wrote to Chris Carter...

[...]

 CC> imagine the Enterprise-E will have a configuration similar to

[...]

 FG> Or maybe the path of least resistance. The next Galaxy-class ship
 FG> off the line....

This would work too.

 FG> But maybe with Voyager's bio-pack computers, rather than the older
 FG> isolinear stuff.

A substantial improvement, if only to allow for more possibilities for
weird technobabble problems/solutions to problems.

 FG> Voyager-class ships seem too small for the kind of long duration
 FG> missions the Enterprise does.

I wouldn't say that.  Any size of ship that has adequate capacity to be
self-sufficient should do.  It may even be possible that too big a
vessel could be a detriment, if that means having a large crew consuming
more power, edibles, etc.

Chris - carter@teleport.com



... Tagline Schmagline!!??!

--- PPoint 2.00
 * Origin: Grid Epsilon Coords. 105x290x23 (1:105/290.23)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 76 of 284
 From : Chris Carter                        1:105/290.23    .òp 13 .åâ 96 05:47
 To   : James Walton
 Subj : Star Wars Novelizations
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On (12 Feb 96) James Walton wrote to Chris Carter...

 JW> I have a first edition copy of "Splinter of the Mind's Eye" too.

I don't know how much that might be worth, but at a guess, not much.

 JW> The problem is, I don't buy to collect and sell.  I buy to read
 JW> and enjoy. So I might find out how much this book is worth, but I
 JW> will never sell.

Agreed.  Real collectors don't speculate.

Chris - carter@teleport.com


... A full belly makes Mama happy, not a white shirt!

--- PPoint 2.00
 * Origin: Grid Epsilon Coords. 105x290x23 (1:105/290.23)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 77 of 284
 From : Chris Carter                        1:105/290.23    .òp 13 .åâ 96 05:54
 To   : Nicolai Shapero
 Subj : Star Trek Generations
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On (11 Feb 96) Nicolai Shapero wrote to Chris Carter...

 NS> I thought that it was supposed to be Enterprise E.  I don't
 NS> remember the comment by Riker, so I'll obviously have to dig out
 NS> the tape and play it again.

Upon further thought, the comment Adm. Riker made was more like unto,
"When you're and Admiral, they'll let you have any ship you want, so..."

Hope this helps...

Chris - carter@teleport.com


... "Have you got a Fricasseeing Rabbit License?"

--- PPoint 2.00
 * Origin: Grid Epsilon Coords. 105x290x23 (1:105/290.23)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 78 of 284
 From : Chris Baugh                         1:105/290.5     .îí 12 .åâ 96 18:02
 To   : The Raven
 Subj : Female Leaders
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 TR> While we are at it, let's mention Catherine the Great, Queen
 TR> Anne, Queen Boddicia, Indira Ghandi, Margaret Thatcher, and
 TR> Corazon Aquino. All female leaders, all heavy influences on
 TR> their cultures and their countries.

Don't forget Kay Shapero, next in line for the SF_FAN throne! <g>

--- PPoint 1.98
 * Origin: - (1:105/290.5)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 79 of 284
 From : Aaron Turon                         1:137/2         .òp 13 .åâ 96 18:13
 To   : Everone
 Subj : Hello!?
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Hello! Is anyone out there? Please send me a mesage(don't know if that's spelled
right :)!
Bye!  ;)

--- Opus-CBCS 1.73a
 * Origin: Chipper Clipper * Scott me up beamy! * 941-745-56 (1:137/2.0)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 80 of 284
 From : Timothy H. Willis                   1:306/32        .cê 11 .åâ 96 21:51
 To   : Mark Jones
 Subj : Re: Alien threats?
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
* Mark Jones spies Frank Glover and flips the safety off... *

 MJ> On (03 Feb 96) Frank Glover wrote to Mark Jones...

 FG>    But extraterrestrials who can come here, by definition are at least
 FG> as intelligent as us, with technology superior to ours, since we are
 FG> presently incapable of interstellar flight. There may be borderline
 FG> cases like that in `Footfall' where we have a chance (and a little
 FG> luck), but otherwise we would clearly survive at *their* sufferance.

 MJ> No argument.  But the moron in question seems to think that any
 MJ> aliens who come knocking on our door will *necessarily* be physically
 MJ> stronger (by a wide margin) than we are.  Which is a load of steaming
 MJ> ****, frankly.  Nobody knows.
 MJ> That any aliens who can cross interstellar space to kick sand in
 MJ> our faces will be more advanced scientifically than we are I don't
 MJ> dispute.  We can't do it.  If they can, obviously they've learned
 MJ> something we don't know yet.

 Hi Mark... quite a while since I posted to you...

    Anyway...
    Have you by any chance read Harry Turtledove's "World War:" Saga?
(Three books so far, two in pb, and the third just out in hb.)  It's a tale
of alien invasion in 1942, right when WW-2 was getting nice and hot.  It's
a pretty good example of so-called superior aliens invading and ending up
like the dog that just bit someone on their wooden leg... and the peg-legged
one has a *big* stick.
    Mostly I just lurk here, but I couldn't pass this one up.  I really
do recomment the books... the first one is titled "World War: In the Balance".
    Seeya around
    Timothy & the felines...



... He who pauses during a gunfight is changing magazines.  THW
--- FMail/386 1.0g
 * Origin: The Forum BBS-Ft Collins,CO *NODE @* (970)225-2627 (1:306/32)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 81 of 284
 From : Todd Sullivan                       1:3654/202      .îí 12 .åâ 96 23:45
 To   : 30
 Subj : Star Trek Generations
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12  95-0139
NOTE: This message was originally addressed to FRANK GLOVER
      and was forwarded to you by TIMOTHY GENTRY
                          --------------------
While substituting for Q, Frank Glover took extreme delight in saying to
Chris Ogniben, "You'll do anything I say?"  Chris quailed when the words
"Star Trek Generations" were uttered.

 CO>>  seemed as if the enterprise did go through a bit of refit, since a
 CO>>  of things looked different.  I don't know if it was the holodeck that
 CO>>  Data and Picard were in to view the star maps.  But, i thought it was
 FG>    The Stellar Cartography room is a set built for the movie, but I
 FG> think we can consider it to simply be apart of the ship we haven't seen
 FG> before.
 FG>
 FG>    I think we can assume there will be an Enterprise-E...one wonders

what

 FG> it will look like?

Seems to me the ship we say leaving orbit was a possibility.  In the TNG
Tech Manual, the next class is the Nova; one might assume that was it, or
another new design.

Todd Sullivan

... "A man should be jailed for telling lies to the young."
     --Lillian Hellman

-*- ASTG 1.9

--- Spot 1.3a Unregistered
 * Origin: Todd's Spot in the Continuum (1:202/720.3)

--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12
 * Origin: <GAME WORLD/NEXUS>-SCI-FI Files 910-616-0570  (1:3654/202.0)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 82 of 284
 From : Hanke Penning                       2:240/5002.29   .òp 13 .åâ 96 00:00
 To   : All
 Subj : New here!
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Hello folks,

I would like to introduce myself. I'am new in this area. I'm
a SF-fan from germany (so my english might not be the best -
sorry for that), 29 years old and sf-interested since I was
12 years old.

I prefered authors like John Brunner, John Sladek, sometimes
Lem, but also Pratchett. Also I'm watching STARTREK on TV or
BAB5 - but in my opinion the movies are better than the
books.

Thanks for reading.

Greetings to all of you                  Hanke Penning

--- Luederos V.1.01
 * Origin:  Userbox Barsbuettel - mit das Beste am Norden!  (2:240/5002.29)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 83 of 284
 From : Nicolai Shapero                     1:102/524       .òp 13 .åâ 96 06:52
 To   : ROBERT LIDGREN
 Subj : clarification
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Feb 11 12:26>, ROBERT LIDGREN (1:134/10) wrote to NICOLAI SHAPERO:

 RL>Hi Nicolai!  I haven't been following SFFAN daily or anything so
 RL>I guess I've
 RL>missed the latest directive.  Waht caused Kay to make her
 RL>decision?

Excuse me please, but Kay is not the moderator, I am.  And what made me decide
about it being off topic?  Well, it was off topic to begin with, but I made a
comment on it so I thought that other people should have their say also.  That
was done.  People had their say, and were beginning to repeat themselves.

-- Nicolai Shapero, the Mad Russian Sysop of StormGate Aerie

--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 84 of 284
 From : Nicolai Shapero                     1:102/524       .òp 13 .åâ 96 06:55
 To   : Elizabeth H. Penrose
 Subj : Twelve Monkeys
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Feb 11 06:37>, Elizabeth H. Penrose (1:129/26) wrote to Gerry Normandeau:

 EH>The director of the short called himself "Chris Marker"; a
 EH>pseudonym for a French Marxist.  The short was called "La Jetee".
 EH>Never "The Jetty".  It is always kept in the French form.  And
 EH>while I know all this, I've never seen it.

Do so, by all means (see it).  It is a very strange, but interesting piece of
sf-cinema.

-- Nicolai Shapero, the Mad Russian Sysop of StormGate Aerie


--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 85 of 284
 From : Kay Shapero                         1:102/524       .òp 13 .åâ 96 10:35
 To   : ROBERT LIDGREN
 Subj : clarification
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Feb 11 12:26>, ROBERT LIDGREN (1:134/10) wrote to NICOLAI SHAPERO:

 RL>missed the latest directive.  Waht caused Kay to make her
 RL>decision?  What

I'm not the moderator.  Nicolai is.  I'm moderator of FILK - if you're
interested in sf folksongs, come on over some time!

--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 86 of 284
 From : Darre LuAllen                       1:3637/1        .òp 13 .åâ 96 11:08
 To   : Barton Paul Levenson
 Subj : Re: Star Trek Sexism
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 On 02-11-96 Barton Paul Levenson wrote to Darre LuAllen...

 BP> Excellant post (on damming-up one's mind).

 Thank you.  It's kinda a sore spot with me, someone who willingly remains
 ignorant.  I'll save you the details of my youth.  I have always been
 drawn to SF/F since it does allow the readers a chance to open their
 minds; to see the world through a different light.  Just my humble
 take on it...

                                            Darre LuAllen
                                            Champion of the
                                            Open Mind
___
 * OFFLINE 1.56 * Captain, I protest. I am NOT a merry man!


--- Maximus/2 3.01
 * Origin: Cumberland BBS TN 615/526-3347 V34 (1:3637/1)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 87 of 284
 From : Carson Chittom                      1:3632/65       .òp 13 .åâ 96 17:54
 To   : Christian Raven
 Subj : Re: Star Trek Sexism
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

-=>Happily did Christian speak thus unto Robert<=-

 CR> This is ridiculous... the entire point is that there have been FAR
 CR> more  male hunters, FAR more male presidents, FAR more male
 CR> captains, FAR more male providers, and that by physically

        So?  These are statistical data.  Statistics indicate a trend; they
do not prove beyond a doubt.

 CR> examining women it is OBVIOUS that they have evolved  in
 CR> the fashion they have due to FAR less workload than men..

        Oh, really?  Would you do me the honour of enlightening me with
the proof that has been found?  Or, at the very least, cite some reputable
sources?

 CR> thats it.  i dont care what else anyone has to say, if you
 CR> want to argue with what i just said, i'm not even going to
 CR> bother to reply, because i know that it is factual. xxx

        "How do you know?"
        "I just know!"
        Sounds to me like the justification of fundamentalists and racists.
        Secondly, one should always care what other people have to say.  One
may disagree, but one should always let them have their speech.  I refer
you to Voltaire's famous statement.
        Thirdly, would you do me a personal favour and work on your
grammar and punctuation?

                        A l'heures,
                            Carson

... Cat toy (n): anything not nailed down...

___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20 [NR]

--- Maximus 3.01
 * Origin: No Regrets, Clinton, MS (601)924-8247 9P-5A (1:3632/65)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 88 of 284
 From : Bill Clements                       1:18/230        .òp 13 .åâ 96 22:21
 To   : Barton Paul Levenson
 Subj : EDUCATION
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On (09 Feb 96) BARTON PAUL LEVENSON wrote to BILL CLEMENTS...

 BP> This topic has been ruled out of bounds by the moderator.


 BP> My degree is University of Pittsburgh 1983.  You know, the
 BP> one where Cohen teaches nuclear engineering.

READ the _SUBJECT_ line of the message header.  The subject is
_EDUCATION_ which has not been declared off-topic.

The date of your degree tells me that you are , in all
probability, the child of baby-boom parents, the product of a
liberal environment, and educated in the Public Schools.  I fear
that you have fallen victim of the blight that has run rampant
through two generations of our nations children and now also
infects their teachers as well.  Yes I'm afraid that you are
functionally illiterate.  However this is now the norm for
"Professional Educators" and "Students" in America.  You should
do well in a society with its standards set to the lowest common
denominator.

You could do better still if you would _LEARN_TO_READ_WITH_
CAREFUL_ATTENTION_TO_DETAIL_

.
... In America those that can, do; those that can't, teach...

--- PPoint 2.00 / QWK

--- FLAME v1.1
 * Origin: ANCESTRY TBBS Shadows of forgotten ancestors 941-382-9061 (1:18/230)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 89 of 284
 From : Peter Tam                           1:259/536       .òp 13 .åâ 96 06:30
 To   : Gerry Normandeau
 Subj : The Twelve Monkeys
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 GN> Hi all. I have a real brain buster for you. I have recently
 GN> watched the movie The Twelve Monkies. And I must say it was
 GN> another winner from our friend Terri Gillium.

Do you mean "Twelve Monkeys" from director Terry Gilliam?

 GN>  What I want to ask is, does anyone out there remembur the
 GN> name of the movie that this film is based on? I remembur seeing
 GN> it a long time ago on TVO's Magic Shadows with Elwy Yost. Now this
 GN> dates me for those who remember! :)
 GN>  The film was from France. It was filmed as a series of still

Le Jetee.

--- Maximus 2.01wb
 * Origin: USS Proxima = Toronto, Canada (416)265-3867 (1:259/536)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 90 of 284
 From : Gerry Normandeau                    1:163/430       .òp 13 .åâ 96 03:02
 To   : Nicolai Shapero
 Subj : Re: The Twelve Monkies
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On 02-11-96  00:23 Nicolai Shapero strung up Gerry Normandeau on the gallows
pole because of The Twelve Monkies!


 NS> The movie was, IIRC, entitled LA JETTE.  A really strange
 NS> time travel thing wherein our protagonist ends up getting
 NS> a power source from his own future and being murdered in
 NS> the past (viewed by himself).  Quite bizarre.

 NS> -- Nicolai Shapero, the Mad Russian Sysop of StormGate Aerie

A-HA! That is it! The one thing I have is over two-hundred movie
books, so all I needed was a first clue.

LA JETEE (The Pier) (Argos, 1962) 29 min.

 Paris is destroyed in a nuclear war. The survivors exist in underground
vaults at Chaillot. To escape the disastrous present, experiments are
instigated to find some gap in the time continuum. The person chosen for
the test (Davous Henich) has a recurring memory: as a child he watched a
beautiful girl standing on a jetty at Orly Airport when a man came running
nearby and was killed. The subject is projected into the past to gain a
foothold om time. On the jetty he meets the girl of his dream and they
fall in love.Given a chance to go into the future he refuses and
projects himself back to the woman he adores. He runs to her on the Jetty,
but turns in time to see that one of the underground scientists has followed
him from the future. He is killed.
 This captivating short subject, was depicted entirely in still photographs
with added narration. " In this film, visual images literally transcend
time... The commentary on its own stands up to the most through examination
in much the same way as a poem does."(British Monthly Film Bulletin). John
Baxter wrote, in Science Fiction in the Cinima (1970) "[It] is in its way a
perfect literary sf piece, developed like a short story with a detached
narration and brevity of expression most writers would envy... a unique
combination of literature and cinima."
 Among the awards bestowed on this film were The Golden Asteroid, the
Trieste Science Film Festival Award, The International Fim Critics'
Prize, Prix Jean Vigo, and the Ducat of Gold at the Mannheim Festival.
             (From The Great Science Fiction Pictures
              by James Robert Parish & Michael R. Pitts
              Pub. by The Scarecrow Press, Inc. 1977c)

 I have also foun out that this picture is avaliabul on home video
for around $29.95 US.
                           Thanks for your help!!!!!

Gerry Normandeau \ Nexis >> Fido Address-1:163/115
   ~~~~~~~~~~~
... "It's not I who am Crazy...It's I who am MAAAADDD!!!!!!!"
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

--- Maximus 2.01wb
 * Origin: Watership Down BBS, Kanata , ON (1:163/430)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 91 of 284
 From : Owen E. Oulton                      1:243/45        .pä 14 .åâ 96 02:33
 To   : Jon Helis
 Subj : Re: Star Trek
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 OEO> Torres was originally part of StarFleet.  She completed most of
 OEO> StarFleet Academy before leaving and becoming a Maquis.  She's also had
 OEO> a year of reading up on StarFleet engineering in order to do her job as
 OEO> Chief Engineer, so it's not too surprising for her to be aware of Data.

 JH> In "Caretaker," as well as in "The Cloud," we found out that
 JH> Torres had attended Starfleet Academy, but was thrown out.
 JH> After that, she joined the Maquis.  I don't remember what she
 JH> did to get expelled, but she apparently was a good student in
 JH> some areas.  According to her file, one of her professors
 JH> offered to back her if she chose to reapply to the academy.

Nope, she wasn't thrown out, although I misremembered exactly how much she
completed.  In Caretaker, she states to Kim "I actually made it into second year
at the Academy before we, ah, we mutually agreed that it wasn't the place for
me.  In Parallax (not The Cloud) she tells Janeway, who she knows has her
records, "The truth is, I quit the Academy because... I realised I couldn't make
it in StarFleet."  That's when Janeway tells her about the remarks made by the
professor.

CFN, O

--- Maximus 2.01wb
 * Origin: Pandora's Box, Ottawa, Ont. 613-829-1209 (1:243/45)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 92 of 284
 From : Rod Mammitzsch                      1:2424/1313     .îí 12 .åâ 96 21:55
 To   : All
 Subj : SF PARTY!
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
You are invited!

     To THE PHARO'S PROJECT's second fan Party!  The Pharos Project is a Toronto
based British Science Fiction fan club and magazine publisher...and we're
holding another party!
     This time we are welcoming Doctor Who novel writer Paul Cornell as our
special guest for the evening.
     If you like SF...especially British SF (Doctor Who, Red Dwarf, The
Prisoner, etc.) then this event is for you!  Come on down to this informal
social event...the will be good conversation, a pool table, a raffle for many
great prizes, videos, food and drink at the bar (many great ales on tap)
available for all who attend.  Admission is free!

WHO:  THE PHAROS PROJECT PARTY TWO
WHAT: well...its a party!
WHERE: THE ROWERS PUB.  150 Harbord...west of Spadina, on the
                        corner of Brunswick Ave (almost).  Toronto,
                        Ontario.  Canada.
WHEN:  8pm. Saturday the 24th of February.
WHY:   talk, food, prizes, drink, pool, videos, Paul Cornell...
HOW:   Its up to you but it is accessable by car, foot, public transit,
       and planet fall.

I hope to see you ALL there!

For more info just ask!

     ROD

--- Xenolink 1.981, XEmacs 1.2
 * Origin: Mater Susperiorum, Mater Lachrymarum, Mater Tenebrarum (1:2424/1313)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 93 of 284
 From : Todd Sullivan                       1:202/720.3     .òp 13 .åâ 96 19:22
 To   : Chris Carter
 Subj : syzygy
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
While substituting for Q, Chris Carter took extreme delight in saying to me,
"You'll do anything I say?"  I quailed when the words "syzygy" were uttered.

 TS>> change; a syzygy is even rarer, and points to more power or more
 TS>> change, good or bad.

 CC> Please don't tell me a syzygy occurred when the Communications Decency
 CC> Act was signed into law.

<blank stare>  No idea; you might check JPL's web sire, if the have one.

Todd Sullivan

... "Which came out of the opened door--the lady or the tiger?"
     --Frank Stockton

-*- ASTG 1.9

--- Spot 1.3a Unregistered
 * Origin: Todd's Spot in the Continuum (1:202/720.3)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 94 of 284
 From : Phill Ash                           1:275/160       .pä 14 .åâ 96 08:30
 To   : Barton Paul Levenson
 Subj : STAR TREK SEXISM
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE 1.11+

 BPL> Consider the upper classes in the Roman Republic and the early Empire.
 BPL> Generally two parents, plus professional tutors, servants and slaves.

        The upper-class, yes.  But have you noticed that remarkably
        little is heard of middle & lower-class Romans...

 BPL> Yet they turned out a surprisingly high fraction of dangerous
 BPL> sociopaths.

        The Elemental name of Lead is Plumbium, hence the Periodic
        abbreviation "Pb".  The word 'plumbium' is derived from the
        Latin root 'plumb' meaning, coincidentally enough, Lead.
        Strange as it may seem, the English term 'plumbing' is derived
        from the same Latin root.  Why?  Because the Roman Empire
        poisoned its collective self by running all of their cities'
        irrigation through LEAD PIPES!!!  You'd do better to teach a
        quadraplegic to play Jai Alai than to teach a late-era Roman not
        to have a mental disorder!


Your pal:  PhlAsh
---
 þ Ùystertags v1.1 þ See this fish?  His scales turned green under such a sun
~~~ ReneWave v1.01 [NR]
--- Smile :)
 * Origin: * The Beast's Lair * (804)498-3070 * Va Beach VA * (1:275/160)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 95 of 284
 From : Phill Ash                           1:275/160       .pä 14 .åâ 96 08:30
 To   : Owen E. Oulton
 Subj : Highlander 2: The Sickening
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE 1.11+

 OEO> While at a video store the other day, I noticed a Director's Cut of
 OEO> Highlander 2: The Quickening, labeled Renegade Version.  It supposedly
 OEO> has 16 minutes that was cut from the theatrical release of The
 OEO> Sickening.  Has anyone seen this version, and is it worth looking at?
 OEO> Does it turn The Sickening into anything remoptely resembling a
 OEO> watchable movie?

        Well...it covers a few things that wound-up on the cutting-room
        floor.  Unfortunately, several things remain a mystery... such
        as- why Katana, who has just travelled from THE PAST (no, not
        Zeist), knows what Kansas is or why he is quoting 30's movies
        <G>



Your pal:  PhlAsh
---
 þ Ùystertags v1.1 þ There must be something that remains
~~~ ReneWave v1.01 [NR]
--- Smile :)
 * Origin: * The Beast's Lair * (804)498-3070 * Va Beach VA * (1:275/160)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 96 of 284
 From : Dave MacLean                        1:259/536       .òp 13 .åâ 96 00:41
 To   : All
 Subj : sci fi
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
hi everyone i am writing this message for 2 reasons 1 - is i am part of a sci fi
club that meets monthly in downtown Toronto and i just want to say that we are
always looking for new members and if you have questions or want info about the
club feel free to message me back.  the 2nd part of my message is i am in the
process of writing a trivia book on st-tng & u think u might want to help me or
have any questions again feel free to message me back.  hope to here from you.



--- Maximus 2.01wb
 * Origin: USS Proxima = Toronto, Canada (416)265-3867 (1:259/536)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 97 of 284
 From : Michael Harper                      1:123/10        .îí 12 .åâ 96 08:09
 To   : Chris Ogniben
 Subj : Dangerous Babes
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 -=> Tossing back another tequila, Chris Ogniben told Michael Harper about

  Dangerous Babes...

 CO> Well all i have to say, is the guy that married Lucy Lawless must
 CO> be having fun for her to dress up like Xena and make his life seem to
 CO> be the best thing that ever happened in this life.

 I seem to recall reading someplace that Lucy was married and had two
 kids. Her beauty is no big surprise; New Zealand produces some of the
 loveliest women on this planet.

 CO> What about the actress that plays Gabrielle, and is she married,
 CO> what is her true age, and other tid bits that you know.

 Renee O'Connor. I think she's in her early twenties, and single.

 Best way to find out any of this stuff is to write Universal and ask
 for information.

... "Exciting, isn't it?" --Draal
--- RA/FD/FMail
 * Origin: The Eclectic Fox -- Memphis TN  (901)327-1008 (1:123/10)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 98 of 284
 From : Michael Harper                      1:123/10        .pä 14 .åâ 96 15:52
 To   : Frank Glover
 Subj : Star Trek Generations
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 -=> Tossing back another tequila, Frank Glover told Todd Sullivan about

  Star Trek Generations...

 FG> BTW, having just wacthed ST: Generations this afternoon, does
 FG> anyone know who the older gentleman was who played the Enterprise-B's
 FG> communications officer? He *looked* for all the world like former
 FG> astronaut Pete Conrad, but I'm not sure, and I don't think I saw
 FG> the character identified in the credits.

 I'll have to watch it again, but if Conrad had lines, you'd know it was
 him. He's got an Oklahoma twang that's almost painful to listen to.

... Well, Baldrick, it looks as if we're to be rogered to death after all.
--- RA/FD/FMail
 * Origin: The Eclectic Fox -- Memphis TN  (901)327-1008 (1:123/10)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 99 of 284
 From : Ecarey                              1:101/230       .òp 13 .åâ 96 10:19
 To   : Barton Paul Levenson
 Subj : RE: STAR TREK SEXISM
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 > I said "individuals."  Group differences really are irrelevant.
 > Your mentally retarded individual would not pass the tests to be a
 > starship Captain.  But everyone should have a right to take the
 > tests.  The situation in the last episode of the third season of the
 > original, where women per se were not allowed to command starships,
 > is immoral.  (And also showed a serious failure of imagination on
 > Gene Roddenberry's part.)  Even if most women couldn't make the
 > grade, some might.  The question is not, should women be allowed to
 > command a starship?  The question is, should Jane be allowed to
 > command starship?  Should Bob?  Should Alice?

Note that during the third season of TOS, Roddenberry wasn't much involved with
Trek. In an attempt to get out of the killer time slot Trek had been moved to,
he said that he'd step down from active involvement if they didn't move it back,
and when they refused, he stuck to his guns. By late third season, we're not
seeing Roddenberry's work.

Remember, Roddenberry was responsible for Number One in the first pilot, "The
Cage". _That_ was not a woman who thought starship command was out of her reach.

--- FLAME v1.0
 * Origin: Withouta Net - Drop In Anytime! - 617/846-5416 (1:101/230)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 100 of 284
 From : ROBERT LIDGREN                      1:134/10        .òp 13 .åâ 96 23:14
 To   : KIM KELLEY
 Subj : X-FILES
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
-> Did either of you see the 2-9 episode that is to be continued?  This one has
-> truly kept me on the edge of my seat wondering exactly "what" is inhabiting
-> all these people.  With the black "roling" eyes, the mystery is even more
-> powerful, because that's all that is evident until "it" explodes into
-> radiation.  It appears, to me, that "it" is "getting back" at someone.

I sure did!  Wow!  What an episode.  Even the production values were nearly
motion picture quality on this one!

I'm sure Mulder is certain this entity which "hops" from person to person must
be an alien force.  Imagine the bewilderment of the "victims!"  The lady will
wake up in a men's room in Hong Kong and have no memory of what she had been
doing or how she got there.

The episode also seems to point toward the growing estrangement between Mulder
and Scully they seem to be going somehwat "sparate" ways despite working on
cases "together." I wonder how it will all pan out.  AND, how did Mulder know
that Krycek shot his father?  Was it that reflection in the bathroom mirror?
Many loose ends to tie up and certainly that little swine Krycek will be back
to create more hell for Mulder down the line.
--- PCBoard 15.2
 * Origin: 32 lines 40 Gig BBS, Realtime InterNet SLIP (403)299-9900 (1:134/10)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 101 of 284
 From : ROBERT LIDGREN                      1:134/10        .òp 13 .åâ 96 23:21
 To   : ALL
 Subj : "Q" on VOYAGER
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
This is it!  The week in which "Q" appears on Star Trek:  Voyager.  Has anyone
head anything at all about the CONTENT of the show?  All I've heard is that "Q"
is going to appear and, I assume, "Let the fun begin!"  He certainly seems to
have a secure future as a character in the many Star Trek incarnations.  I
wonder if he'll also make an appearance in the next STTNG movie.  Has anyone
heard anything about what's up with the new movie?

I'll be very thankful for any input here.  I feel like I've been marooned and
"cut off" from the latest news re: these subjects.

Thanks in advance from a friendly Canadian!

-Rob

======================================================================
| Robert Lidgren \\\|/// * THE INNER SANCTUM | * The Old Viking      |
|                ( o o ) * Writer, Teacher   | * Seeker of the Truth |
| =========o00o====(_)====o00o=======================================|
| e-mail me at------------> robert.lidgren@bbs.logicnet.com          |
| My Personal Web Site----> http://www.logicnet.com/robert.lidgren   |
======================================================================
--- PCBoard 15.2
 * Origin: 32 lines 40 Gig BBS, Realtime InterNet SLIP (403)299-9900 (1:134/10)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 102 of 284
 From : ROBERT LIDGREN                      1:134/10        .òp 13 .åâ 96 23:28
 To   : FRANK GLOVER
 Subj : X-FILES
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
-> I'm inclined to agree with this. I just (and I mean minutes ago)
-> watched the next episode involving the gargoyles, and I get the hint of at
-> least Scully's concern for Mulder going somewhere beyond the professional.
-> (Not toward the `L' word now mind you, but somewhere beyond.) The nature of
-> the plot made it impossible to tell if his feelings are growing in any way,
-> though.

Based on what happened in last Friday's episode involving the French research
vessel, the "Alien" hop-from-body-to-body force and Mulder's relatively solo
adventures, I would say that their relationship is definately in a "low" state
despite residual concern for each other.  It all seemed to have started in the
Episode in the town during "Planetary Conjunction" and seems to have
deteriorated since then.

True, they are working on cases "together" but since that wild and crazy
episode dealing with the Satanic Cult allegations things have not looked very
rosy in the Mulder/Scully partnership.  I know Scully still cares deeply for
Mulder but Mulder does seem to have gone off on a tangent and the destination
is unclear.  What a huge change from the season opener when they couldn't have
been a "tighter" pair unless romance was a result!  Now the sin wav is
certainly at a low ebb.

Cheers,

-Rob
--- PCBoard 15.2
 * Origin: 32 lines 40 Gig BBS, Realtime InterNet SLIP (403)299-9900 (1:134/10)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 103 of 284
 From : Channon Lang                        1:130/809       .åò 15 .åâ 96 05:29
 To   : Karmin St.jean
 Subj : Re: THE GUIDE AND IT'S IN
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE 1.11+
From a dark bottomless pit,Karmin St.jean screamed up to Channon Lang about THE
GUIDE AND IT'S IN..

 CL> Hitchhiker's Guide---the radio series on tape.

 CL> What kind of problems are you having setting it up?


 KS> I successfully set up the Guide but its the only one I did
 KS> successfully set up and I forgot how I did it now. :( :(

 Ah, sorry I missed it the first time....If I were there, I'd help you...
 sigh...

 Channon



... Send Monopoly Money to your Favorite TV Evangelist
--- MachoEcho 0.5ñ
 * Origin: The State of Confusion * Arlington Tx * 817-274-1920 * (1:130/809)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 104 of 284
 From : Channon Lang                        1:130/809       .åò 15 .åâ 96 05:29
 To   : Kim Wheat
 Subj : Re: Star Trek
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE 1.11+
From a dark bottomless pit,Kim Wheat screamed up to Channon Lang about
 Star Trek..

 CL> Thank you...it's always nice to get a hug...

 KW> Found them on sale and bought up a /bunch/ of um! :>

 So where do you get yours? On sale, I mean.

 CL> So, you have your house divided up between Movies and Books...Hmmmm,
 CL> and to think I have mine divided up between computers and child,
 CL> although, the child is beginning to take over there too...

 KW> Well, hon....you should have come to us first, on the kid issue. I
 KW> have two boys that I'd happily ship them up to your place for a
 KW> spell... sorta as a 'test run', so to speak! <g> You could've seen
 KW> that the baby stage is a piece of cake....it's the 'teen' years that
 KW> take the toll! <g> Unfortunately, it's too late now! <lol>

 My mother insists that I'm having too much fun with her (Anna, my baby).
 She says I'm not nervous enough to be a first time mother....:)

 KW> Re: B5

 CL> Well, if you want to know the truth, I have only recently started
 CL> watching it. Like, real recent...maybe since right before Christmas,
 CL> that's it.

 KW> Will be watching the new episode on Wednesday and I'll let you know.

 I missed the one Wednesday...did you see it?...Actually, I thought it was
 on Sunday....or are you talking about DS9?

  KW> Re: V'ger

 CL> Yeah, I know what you mean. I was that way about TNG, too. My dad
 CL> still refuses to watch DS9, but somehow he tolerates V'ger. I keep
 CL> trying to give V'ger the benefit of the doubt. But, to tell you what,
 CL> if they don't start doing MUCH better, I'll have to finally write it
 CL> off. Actually, I like Janeway, but the writers need to really start
 CL> working...maybe get some writers from TNG or something...or start
 CL> totally new...who knows.

 KW> Is it me, or are the Klingons turning into wimps??? I mean, I
 KW> always knew Worf was a puff....but in the last DS9 episode, Kira

 <sp?> whips their butts???!! What the heck is going on in the Empire??!

 KW> These are the dudes that sit around in pubs and knock each other out
 KW> with their heads....for FUN, even!!! I tell ya....if I was that
 KW> "warrior", I'd not have the hon-hok-a's to walk around that ship with
 KW> head held high!! <g> Tis truly a dark time for the ol' Empire!

 YEAH! I'm glad someone else see's it too! I figured it was because Worf
 was raised with humans...I gave him that much benefit of the doubt....but
 here lately, those Klingons are nothing but wussies....I'm willing to bet
 that even Quark could take one out...without cheating...

 KW> Saw the next episode V'ger previews....heart beat when up when I
 KW> heard the clip where Janeway sez, "Start the self-destruct sequance."
 KW> But I imagine my luck ain't THAT good! :>

 I kinda liked it....I thought the computer arguing with itself was pretty
 funny. The next one is the one that I think will be interesting....The
 return of Q and all...And Jonathan Frakes is appearing too....

 Channon



... "He looks more like a grocer than a burglar." - Bombur
--- MachoEcho 0.5ñ
 * Origin: The State of Confusion * Arlington Tx * 817-274-1920 * (1:130/809)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 105 of 284
 From : Channon Lang                        1:130/809       .åò 15 .åâ 96 05:29
 To   : Jon Helis
 Subj : Re: Star Trek
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE 1.11+
From a dark bottomless pit,Jon Helis screamed up to Channon Lang about Star
Trek..

 KW> first started, being one of them "Nothing can replace Kirk & Company"
 KW> fanatics....I got better!) <g>
 CL>
 CL> Yeah, I know what you mean. I was that way about TNG, too. My dad
 CL> still refuses to watch DS9, but somehow he tolerates V'ger. I keep
 CL> trying to give V'ger the benefit of the doubt. But, to tell you what,
 CL> if they don't start doing MUCH better, I'll have to finally write it
 CL> off. Actually, I like Janeway, but the writers need to really start
 CL> working...maybe get some writers from TNG or something...or start
 CL> totally new...who knows.

 JH> When I first heard about TNG, I thought it would be hard to top
 JH> the original.  Once it started, I changed my mind.  Like you, I
 JH> think it got better too.

 JH> I enjoy watching DS9, but Voyager, sometimes it's good, while at
 JH> other times, outright disappointing.  This inconsistency is
 JH> slowly starting to push me away.  Unless they start coming up
 JH> with good scripts, I may write it off too.

 I was concerned about DS9 for a while...and really leary about Worf showing
 up there. But it seems to shaping up quite nicely. And Worf is finding a
 friend in Dax...it's interesing how quickly he replaced Deanna Troy, isn't
 it?

 JH> The ghosts of Battlestar Galactica and Space 1999 still haunt me
 JH> when I see Voyager.

 I really like Battlestar Galactica...but then I was a teenage with a HUGE
 crush on Dirk Benedict, too...As for Space 1999, I couldn't stand it!

 Channon


... "Ever notice how irons have a setting for _permanent_ press?" -Wright
--- MachoEcho 0.5ñ
 * Origin: The State of Confusion * Arlington Tx * 817-274-1920 * (1:130/809)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 106 of 284
 From : Channon Lang                        1:130/809       .åò 15 .åâ 96 05:29
 To   : Jon Helis
 Subj : Re: X-FILES
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE 1.11+
From a dark bottomless pit,Jon Helis screamed up to Frank Glover about X-FILES..

 RL>  BTW, I have heard from some people that they hate it when we get a
 RL>  Mulder
 RL>  "voice-over."  What do you think?  I kind of like it because
 RL>  voice-overs are
 RL>  the only way to get DIRECTLY inside a character's thinking/feeling
 RL>  processes.
 FG>
 FG> I think it's a good idea as well. It would be interesting to hear a
 FG> Scully voice-over sometime, if the episode was a particularly moving
 FG> one for her.

 JH> She did a segment congratulating "America's Most Wanted" on it's
 JH> 400th capture last weekend.  She said something along the lines
 JH> of '400 captures and not one vampire or alien, come on, get with
 JH> the program.'

 JH> I found it rather amusing.

 I had a good giggle from it myself!

 Channon
... _ ' m   s t _ p _ d         Can I buy an "O", Pat?
--- MachoEcho 0.5ñ
 * Origin: The State of Confusion * Arlington Tx * 817-274-1920 * (1:130/809)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 107 of 284
 From : Kay Shapero                         1:102/524       .pä 14 .åâ 96 08:49
 To   : Debbie Bickford
 Subj : Virtual Reality
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Feb 13 12:07>, Debbie Bickford (1:203/996) wrote to Kay Shapero:

 DB>Have you seen James Hogan's new _Alternate Reality_?  It's
 DB>another intriguing look at VR and AR.  Now, if I could just find
 DB>my copy and see how it turns out...

Nope; I've never cared for Hogan's style.  Nothing specific I can point to - it
just doesn't seem to grab me particularly.


... "Concerning taste there can be no argument" said the lady as she kissed the
cow.

--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 108 of 284
 From : Nicolai Shapero                     1:102/524       .pä 14 .åâ 96 21:07
 To   : Jim May
 Subj : Re: Star Trek Generations
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Feb 12 14:46>, Jim May (1:251/9) wrote to NICOLAI SHAPERO:

 -=> Quoting Nicolai Shapero to Frank Glover <=-

 NS> -- Nicolai Shapero, the Mad Russian Sysop of StormGate Aerie

 JM>  This would make a great title and idea for an EP story. Any
 JM>  thoughts on writing one?

My signature line is a great title for a story?  Hmmm...hadn't thought of it in
quite that light...

-- Nicolai Shapero, the Mad Russian Sysop of StormGate Aerie

--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 109 of 284
 From : Nicolai Shapero                     1:102/524       .pä 14 .åâ 96 21:08
 To   : Todd Sullivan
 Subj : Star Trek Generations
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Feb 11 17:38>, Todd Sullivan (1:202/720.3) wrote to Nicolai Shapero:

 TS>That was a refitted Enterprise-D, Nicolai;  after Generations, we
 TS>know that won't be a possibility, or at least it's highly
 TS>unlikely.

I'll have to dig out my tape of ALL GOOD THINGS to be sure, of course.  But
based on the end of GENERATIONS, with the Enterprise D declared "scrap/no
salvage attempt" it looks like a "refitted" E-D is definitely not a possibility
for the "core" timeline.

-- Nicolai Shapero, the Mad Russian Sysop of StormGate Aerie

--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 110 of 284
 From : Nicolai Shapero                     1:102/524       .pä 14 .åâ 96 21:10
 To   : Mark Jones
 Subj : Independence Day
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Feb 10 00:49>, Mark Jones (1:105/302.47) wrote to Keith Stokes:

 MJ>see any plausible way we COULD fight back.  They've got the high
 MJ>ground, superior technology and have already apparently located
 MJ>our
 MJ>centers of government and annihilated them.

There's some that would argue that, they having destroyed Washington D.C., we'd
fight all the better...

-- Nicolai Shapero, the Mad Russian Sysop of StormGate Aerie

--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 111 of 284
 From : Nicolai Shapero                     1:102/524       .pä 14 .åâ 96 21:12
 To   : Jon Helis
 Subj : Messages
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Feb 02 16:50>, Jon Helis (1:3800/25) wrote to Dean Sweatman:

 JH>I have been posting, not in volume, but posting. 3 messages
 JH>went out of here on January 27 and 5 January 29, and 2(including
 JH>this one) on February 2(tonight), have you seen them?

You might be having local echomail problems -- your echomail post did not arrive
here until the 14th of February.

Happy valentines day...

-- Nicolai Shapero, the Mad Russian Sysop of StormGate Aerie

--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 112 of 284
 From : Tommy Kellerman                     2:205/356       .cê 11 .åâ 96 21:31
 To   : Tim Stackpool
 Subj : Dalarna Horse
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
In a message dated 04-Feb-96 11:56:13 PM, Tim Stackpool wrote:

 TK> Hej Tim! How's it hangin' ?

 TS>  Nice slang Tommy. Everything is hangin' fine, Thank you.
 TS>  Have you spent time in an English speaking country. Your English grammar
 TS>  is very good.

Thanks! No, I haven't left Scandinavia in 13 years, but I have some friends
from Davis, California though.

 TS>  Tommy I'll try to find out. (I know there was at least two seasons here)
 TS>  I still haven't found out about the V series. Shame on me.
 TS>  I have actually seen it available on video tape here in Australia.

If possible, I'd like to buy some copies on tape, but I'm afraid the NTSC
system won't look good here in Europe, but I guess I'll have to live with it,
after all, it's worth it.

 TK> Until I was twelve I lived in Stockholm,

 TS>  Nice. I was there last October, having too much vodka in Cafe Opera
 TS>  and stumbling around the Wasa.

Cafe Opera... Expensive place.

Sorry for being OFFTOPIC, but at least the message consisted some sci-fi stuff.


Hej dõ!


Sincerely,

/// -Tommy K.- \\\

--- Xenolink 1.0 Z.3, EmacsXL.4
 * Origin: NoLimit, Furudal +46-258-10071 (2:205/356)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 113 of 284
 From : Tommy Kellerman                     2:205/356       .òp 13 .åâ 96 23:50
 To   : Chris Ogniben
 Subj : UFO
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
In a message dated 03-Feb-96 14:45:24, Chris Ogniben wrote:

 CO>   I still think that you people, are morons to think that UFO's are
 CO> real.  I mean, people  and the human race, can take drugs or drink
 CO> beer, or just be tired or something, and see stupid lights in the sky.
 CO> And they right away thithink that they are being invaded, you people
 CO> need to get your face out of your asses, and wake up to reality and
 CO> know that UFO's are not real.

How do you know that UFO's aren't for real? Just because you haven't seen one?!
They don't do requests! Don't you think it's a bit NAIVE to think that
there AREN'T any civilisations with a higher tech-level than ours, or that there
aren't any other at all?

There will always be people that wants to draw attention, especially in this
form, but there will always be a few percent left of unexplained cases...
You'll probably say " One helluva scam! ", when instead you should go out
on the porch some starry night and think: " What DID those people really see? ".
Maybe you'll get lucky. I did, and I WAS NOT under any kind of influence, nor
tired, I can assure you.

I didn't get afraid either. " Of course, it was hundreds of feet away! " maybe
you'll say, but to tell you the truth; if it had landed, I'd approach it. I
didn't get scared, I got curious AND amazed. You'd have been to...


I don't know about the invasion rumours... Why would they?



Sincerely,

/// -Tommy K.- \\\

--- Xenolink 1.0 Z.3, EmacsXL.4
 * Origin: NoLimit, Furudal +46-258-10071 (2:205/356)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 114 of 284
 From : Judy Hayes                          1:154/40        .pä 14 .åâ 96 21:40
 To   : Phill Ash
 Subj : Re: STAR TREK SEXISM
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

-> "Who me? I'm just plain & simple." said Phill.

 PA> From astride a Pale Horse, ùANATúô heard...

 PA> That's why I hate inputting that sort of thing... I never keep
 PA> articles laying around!  It was from an article in 'Time' or
 PA> 'Business Weekly'.

 JH> Oh, those....2 magazines run by men... |-D
 PA>
 PA> But if it ran in "Cosmopolitan" it'd be all right? <G>

Eeuweyuck!!!  Not Cosmo!!!!  Gross!!!

 PA> Sure, it is!  If you're not so concerned about maintaining the
 PA> financial 'status quo' then surely one of you could take a few
 PA> years off from the workforce and practice homeschooling your
 PA> kids.  Chances are, they'd be better off for it!
 JH> Ha, ha, ha!  You've got to be kidding!  My poor children....I want
 JH> them to be well educated.  I know my own limitations and I really don't
 JH> think I'd make a very good teacher.  I'm a good mom and am very good at
 JH> teaching them values and common sense but as far as English (well,
 JH> maybe English would be okay), History, and Mathmatics (especially
 JH> mathmatics) goes there is *no way* that I am up to it.
 PA>
 PA> Bah!  By the time they've reached levels with which you have
 PA> difficulty, you will have taught them how *to learn* with only
 PA> minimal guidance from yourself.  Teaching children to learn is
 PA> one of the major stumbling blocks of the US educational
 PA> system.

Well, I must say that *you* have much more faith in me than I do.  My daughter
is only in 4th grade and she's already losing me at some points.  Plus, she's
been dianosted as possibly have ADD....I'm not sure I would have the patience
to teach her if she *was* paying attention. I do know my limitations and am
aware of how much it would take.

 PA> There was a 3 year-old in England back in '93 who enjoyed
 PA> interacting with older children.  When his mother took him to
 PA> a mall, he walked away with 2 10 year-olds.  Becoming bored
 PA> with him, the 10 year-olds led him down by the railroad tracks
 PA> and smashed his skull in with a rock.  His body (or the remains
 PA> thereof) was found 3 weeks later.

 JH> But Phil, this has nothing to do with exposing children to a variety
 JH> of  backgrounds in a controlled school environment.
 PA>
 PA> Controlled school environment:  A situation in which children
 PA> are educated based on their maturity and current achievement
 PA> levels.

 PA> Day-schools and their like too often have the tendency to
 PA> allow, and in some cases force, children to interact outside of
 PA> their peer groups.  The establishment of a "peer identity" is a
 PA> vital part of the development of esteem and self-esteem.

Then again, if a child is forced to be restricted to one little peer group
just think of all the wonderful experiences she/he could be missing out on.

 PA> Is a 'lone' parent *really* equipped to perform that function?
 PA> No.  The Day-care industry is proof of that.

 JH> In what way?  You're saying that because a child goes to day care that
 JH> a lone/single parent is unable to teach them good moral values?  I
 JH> wouldn't send my child into a Day Care environment where I did not feel
 JH> that they would teach my child the same type of values that I stressed
 JH> at home.  It would not be a resonable or responsible act.

 PA> Ah!  *You* feel that that would be unreasonable and
 PA> irresponsible, but (by virtue of the fact that you have
 PA> successfully wielded the computer technology necessary to
 PA> carry on this discourse) you are a few notches above the
 PA> 'status quo'.
 PA> The sad truth of the matter is that there are those who assume
 PA> that because an establishment is "licensed", said
 PA> establishment is going to assume *ALL* the educational
 PA> responsibility for the child.

This is true....I tend to forget that not all parents are quite so...well, I
really don't want to use the word "responsible" (It makes me sound awfully
pretentious...not to mention like a [gasp] grownup).  And if I hear someone
tell me one more time, "Well, my parents did that to me as a kid and *I*
turned out alright." I'm gonna HURL!!

 JH> Thanks, pal!  I'll have to send for them both. Even though I may never
 JH> use the technical one, I'd like to have it for reference.  Do they
 JH> charge for their catalogues?

 PA> $10-15, I think... I just rang them the other day to have a
 PA> price-list sent.  They're apparently using the same catalogs
 PA> that they'd issued in '88(!)

Oooooh, *real* up-to-date.  |-)

      --Quoshara




... Off-topic? Er...I know we started out on-topic...Wonder what happened.
---
 * Origin: Anonymous BBS -=- Non plus Ultra -=- 414-251-2580 (1:154/40)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 115 of 284
 From : Paul Goverts                        1:2613/135      .pä 14 .åâ 96 14:07
 To   : Jon Helis
 Subj : NOWHERE MAN
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
-=> Quoting Jon Helis to Paul Goverts <=-

 JH> Our local NBC affiliate airs the show Sunday nights at 11.
 JH> Unfortunately, I have to be at work Monday morning at 7:45 a.m.!
 JH> I end up having to tape the show, which isn't always easy,
 JH> since if sports airs on NBC, the show is delayed.  With football
 JH> season over, your FOX affiliate probably won't delay Nowhere Man
 JH> anymore.

No, 12:30 was the NORMAL time they were showing Nowhere man....  But i
can't seem to find it anymore, they keep switching the schedules
around...

Paul

... New Steel-Belted Trojans - for the active Klingon male!
___ Blue Wave/DOS v2.21

--- PCBoard (R) v15.21/M 10
 * Origin: Wise BBS - Irondequoit, NY (1:2613/135)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 116 of 284
 From : Jeroen Jacobs                       2:292/506.26    .cê 11 .åâ 96 15:35
 To   : All
 Subj : Hello !
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: FastEcho 1.45a UNREG
Yow All !! Where the hell are you ??

I'm Jeroen Jacobs and new on this area.I read a few messages, and I must say
it's very interesting (although I don't understand what women rights have to do
SF ?? ).

I live in Belgium....that's in Europe (in case you didn't know).

And these are my favorite SF-series:

- the X files.
- Star Trek : Deep Space 9
- Star Trek : The Next Generation
- Star Trek : Voyager
- The Outer Limits

Well, that's it for today...

If you have any questions, just ask ! :-)



Greetings from The Prince of Darkness,

                                        Jeroen

                                   -[PGP_ID=1F7602ED]-


...Borger King. Have it our way. Your way is irrelevant.

--- GoldED 2.50+ / PGP 2.6.1
 * Origin: co-sysop 80x86 BBS -= 015 24 48 57 =- (2:292/506.26)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 117 of 284
 From : Boris CDuke                         2:463/2.22      .îí 19 .åâ 96 02:06
 To   : Jeroen Jacobs
 Subj : Hello !
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Hi Jeroen!

 JJ> I'm Jeroen Jacobs and new on this area.I read a few messages, and I must
 JJ> say it's very interesting (although I don't understand what women rights
 JJ> have to do SF ?? ).

Umghu... Welcome aboard.

 JJ> I live in Belgium....that's in Europe (in case you didn't know).

Really? What is it Europe? Never heard before.

 JJ> And these are my favorite SF-series:

 JJ> - the X files.
 JJ> - Star Trek : Deep Space 9
 JJ> - Star Trek : The Next Generation
 JJ> - Star Trek : Voyager
 JJ> - The Outer Limits

I would recommend to try B5 and Red Dwarf (these two are my favourites).

 JJ> Well, that's it for today...

Better tell what's going on in SF in Belgium in general. There'll be a
convention soon in Belgium (I'm not sure will it be Beneluxcon).

 JJ> If you have any questions, just ask ! :-)

What's better Pepsi and Computer or Coke and Bike?

 JJ> Greetings from The Prince of Darkness,

Bestest, Boris

 * Origin: Imagineering (2:463/2.22)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 118 of 284
 From : Pavel Viaznikov                     2:5020/185.9    .cê 18 .åâ 96 02:09
 To   : Gerry Normandeau
 Subj : The Twelve Monkies
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.RFC-Path:
apex!f200.n464!f400.n5020!f35.n5020!f144.n5020!f269.n5020!f185.n5020!not-for-mai
l
Hi there, Gerry!

Tuesday February 06 1996 18:13, Gerry Normandeau wrote to All:

 GN> Hi all. I have a real brain buster for you. I have recently
 GN> watched the movie The Twelve Monkies. And I must say it was

[...]

 GN> name of the movie that this film is based on? I remembur seeing
 GN> it a long time ago on TVO's Magic Shadows with Elwy Yost. Now this
 GN> dates me for those who remember! :)
 GN>  The film was from France. It was filmed as a series of still
 GN> photos with a naration. All I can remembur is that it began
 GN> with a little boy witnesing a runnung man being shot down, Then
 GN> for some reason war brakes out, and the world is destroyed excep
 GN> for a handfull of survivors. The hero of the film, who was the
 GN> boy at the begining is scent back in time to try and stop what
 GN> happened but like in the Twelve Monkies is shot down in front of the
 GN> little boy he was. And ashe dies the movie ends.
 GN>  If any one can remembur this movie and its name please let me know!

 - As far as I know, that was "Runway" (meaning the takeoff strip) by Crys
Marker, dated 1962. Sorry, I am not very sure of the original name since I saw
the movie several years ago and in Russian (in "Illusion", the Moscow old
movies
theatre. I know how it was called by the synchro-translator - and that was the
"Takeoff strip" (the movie begins and ends on the airfield), but I am not sure
of the original name of the film). I still remember those stills: the death of
Paris, with evaporating, still by still, Tour d'Effel; and that future where we
only can see faces covered with big spectacles or masks, and very interesting
light effects.
Did this help?
                                          Yours, Pavel

--- ifmail v.2.8
 * Origin: God bless you, merry gentlemen! (2:5020/185.9)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 119 of 284
 From : Frank Glover                        1:2613/477      .åò 15 .åâ 96 20:24
 To   : Jon Helis
 Subj : Re: SLIDERS/ANY NEWS?
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

JH>   FG> I keep hoping that they'll come back with a special or two and
JH>  tie
JH>   FG> up loose ends, like Alien Nation has. But, as you say, it didn't
JH>  run
JH>   FG> long enough to get anything like Alien Nation's base of fans.
JH>
JH>  Alien Nation only ran for one season, that was enough to build
JH>  up the fan base.  How long did VR5 run?

   Hmm. Eight episodes or so? I think that's pretty close.....

   Frank


--- QuickBBS 2.80 GoldBase (Zeta-1)
 * Origin: The Matrix Data Bank BBS, Rochester, Ny (1:2613/477)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 120 of 284
 From : Frank Glover                        1:2613/477      .åò 15 .åâ 96 20:28
 To   : Owen E. Oulton
 Subj : Re: Star Trek Generations
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

OE>   FG>    BTW, having just wacthed ST: Generations this afternoon, does
OE>  anyone
OE>   FG> know who the older gentelman was who played the
OE>   FG> Enterprise-B's communications officer? He *looked* for
OE>   FG> allthe world like former astronaut Pete Conrad (who

OE>  Yep.  He's identified as Com Officer, and was played ny Thomas
OE>  Kopache.

   Great! Thanks!

   Frank


--- QuickBBS 2.80 GoldBase (Zeta-1)
 * Origin: The Matrix Data Bank BBS, Rochester, Ny (1:2613/477)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 121 of 284
 From : Frank Glover                        1:2613/477      .åò 15 .åâ 96 21:08
 To   : Owen E. Oulton
 Subj : Re: Star Trek Sexism
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

OE>   BPL> The situation in the last episode of the third season of the
OE>  original,
OE>   BPL> where women per se were not allowed to command starships, is
OE>  immoral.
OE>   BPL> (And also showed a serious failure of imagination on Gene
OE>  Roddenberry's
OE>   BPL> part.)
OE>
OE>  Gene wasn't really involved with the show at all at that point.  Gene
OE>  had had a woman as XO of the Enterprise in his original pilot -
OE>  remember Number One?  Since the XO of a ship succeeds to command if

   Yep. NBC wanted him to dump her, and `the guy with the ears.' He was at least
able to keep Spock.

   Still, it's a shame we didn't actually see a woman commanding a Federation
starship (`The Enterprise Incident' shows that Romulans have no qualms!) until
the opening scenes of Star Trek IV.

OE>  I put the line down to the fact that Janice Lester was certifiably
OE>  insane.  She failed the psych tests for the command programme and
OE>  decided on her own that it was because she was a woman.  She was
OE>  wrong.

   Yep. Whacked city, that one.

   Frank


--- QuickBBS 2.80 GoldBase (Zeta-1)
 * Origin: The Matrix Data Bank BBS, Rochester, Ny (1:2613/477)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 122 of 284
 From : The Raven                           1:363/309       .cê 11 .åâ 96 14:50
 To   : Keith Stokes
 Subj : Gulliver's Travels
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
"This just in from our Moscow bureau..."

 KS> I enjoyed it, but found Gulliver's hallucinations anoying.  I think
 KS> that his story was enough to make them think him mad, without them.

     I agree with you, with one exception.  When he walked into the court
and said "This place is full of Yahoos."
     Sorry, but *that* scene worked.

     Jack Butler


... "Whaddaya mean `Hitler who'?  This is Nazi World!" -- Mindweb
--- Blue Wave/DOS v2.20 [NR]
 * Origin: Forethought BBS -=- Orlando, FL -=- 407-679-6561 (1:363/309)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 123 of 284
 From : The Raven                           1:363/309       .cê 11 .åâ 96 14:52
 To   : Marc Zingarelli
 Subj : Highlander
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
"This just in from our Moscow bureau..."

 MZ> Ah so that's where you've been hiding<g>.  I found rysher's web page
 MZ> and noticed that they have an upcoming show schedule.  The last 5 and
 MZ> the first episode of next season are TBA.  Does this mean we have a 5th
 MZ> season?

     Looks that way.  The word I am getting is that #5 is definitely the last
year, if for no other reason than Adrian Paul is beginning to feel 40, even
if he doesn't exactly look it.

     Jack Butler



... "I'm tired. I think I'll sleep with the fishes." -- Crow T. Robot
--- Blue Wave/DOS v2.20 [NR]
 * Origin: Forethought BBS -=- Orlando, FL -=- 407-679-6561 (1:363/309)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 124 of 284
 From : The Raven                           1:363/309       .cê 11 .åâ 96 14:54
 To   : Phill Ash
 Subj : Highlander
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
"This just in from our Moscow bureau..."

 TR> Because of my recent disk crash, I no longer have my Immortals
 TR> list from the series.  If anyone has a copy of it, could you please
 TR> send me a copy?  I'd greatly appreciate it.

 PA> You want it NetMail or via InterNet?

     Netmail is fine.

     Jack Butler



... "Rise, Sir Pooh de Bear, most faithful of all my Knights"
--- Blue Wave/DOS v2.20 [NR]
 * Origin: Forethought BBS -=- Orlando, FL -=- 407-679-6561 (1:363/309)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 125 of 284
 From : The Raven                           1:363/309       .cê 11 .åâ 96 14:57
 To   : Todd Sullivan
 Subj : Bs!!
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
"This just in from our Moscow bureau..."

 TS> Besides, you postulated an unfair fight; what makes you think *any*
 TS> fight is fair?  It's not, and you'd do well th remember that when you
 TS> threaten anyone.

 DL>  Depends upon the Marine.  Most would just snipe him at 500 yds and
 DL>  be done with it.  I must commend you on your patience.  Personally,
 DL>  I would be all over him for such comments (although logically, I know
 DL>  that it would accomplish nothing).

     Who was it who said "A fair fight is a fight I win"?

     Jack Butler



... Always enlarge your comrades in the middle of an enemy war camp.
--- Blue Wave/DOS v2.20 [NR]
 * Origin: Forethought BBS -=- Orlando, FL -=- 407-679-6561 (1:363/309)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 126 of 284
 From : The Raven                           1:363/309       .îí 12 .åâ 96 12:11
 To   : Darre LuAllen
 Subj : Excuse Me?
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 "This just in from our Moscow bureau..."

 DL> I can think of three reasons, all bad: 1) Cheap (read slave)
 DL> labor, 2) free land (like they couldn't find a better planet),
 DL> and 3) food (remember the original "V" TV movies?)

     Somehow I don't think so.  Interstellar travel would be such a major
undertaking that any society that could accomplish it wouldn't *need*
cheap labor.  Robots would be much less expensive than building an
interstellar ship, making the decades-long journey, and then fighting it
out with the natives on the other end, then shipping either the natives (if
you decide to ship them home) or the products you are using them as labor for
(if you decide to set up production facilities there...) home.
     As for land, there's lots of it here in the solar system that you don't
need to fight us over... the Moon comes to mind, as do the asteroids, Mars,
Europa, Titan, and half a dozen other planets/moons/asteroids/and other big
rocks.
     And food?  Considering the chance that we are biologically compatible
with anything that shows up out of the sky are so remote...

     Jack Butler



... "Welcome to the Earth, third rock from the Sun."
--- Blue Wave/DOS v2.20 [NR]
 * Origin: Forethought BBS -=- Orlando, FL -=- 407-679-6561 (1:363/309)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 127 of 284
 From : Edward Spindle                      1:363/1701      .òp 13 .åâ 96 21:04
 To   : All
 Subj : Legacy of the Ancients- by Electronic Arts
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
I am looking for a game called "LEGACY OF THE ANCIENTS". It's an Electronic Arts
game. I'll want to purchase your copies that are in favorable condition.
I need the version for I.B.M. and compatibles. Make best offer.
                                   Edward Spindle
                               Orlando Florida 32833

... 586, 32Mb 40ns RAM, 4Gb 2ms HD. Now Windows will beat DOS!
--- QuickBBS 2.80 (Zeta-1)
 * Origin: NCC-1701 - Orlando, FL   407-380-1701 (1:363/1701)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 128 of 284
 From : Christian Raven                     1:393/7         .òp 13 .åâ 96 17:41
 To   : Anne Swasey
 Subj : Re: Star Trek
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
re: women's roles

  to the greater part, what you wrote to me is correct... however, genital
fibriliation is not as widespread as you would so put it.... instead of actually
sewing up the vaginal passage, most places (such as mende speaking african
cultures, sierra leone, for example) simply cut off the clitoris with a sharp
rock.  i agree, this is quite barbaric and sounds slightly painful.  what you
neglected to mention, however, is that at age 13, the males go through a similar
ritual (especially in areas where a secret society is rampant) where the
foreskin is removed... and if you think that the foreskin feels nothing, think
again.

  what bothers me about the messages i have recieved is that most of you are
tending to go on and on about subjects which simply do not pertain in a
signifigant way to the brunt of my message, which, for the fifth or sixth time
is this: whether or not women have been slandered, treated like dogs, not
allowed to hunt, raped, pillaged, or sacrificed to a higher deity makes no
difference when cross-referenced with my original thought.  what i was saying
was, to put it simply, women are PHYSICALLY WEAKER than men, women are
PSYCHOLOGICALLY less agressive and capable, and women are EMOTIONALLY far less
stable.  whether or not this was due to their past, as you have said, really is
not relevant.
                                                        ..c.raven..
--- CNet/3
 * Origin: The Bard's Tavern Denton, TX (817)243-5110 USR 28.8   (1:393/7)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 129 of 284
 From : Christian Raven                     1:393/7         .òp 13 .åâ 96 18:04
 To   : Darre Luallen
 Subj : Re: Star Trek
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

DL>  CR> different species than man.  however, they ARE
DL>  CR> intrinsically and generally different in many, many ways,
DL>  CR> both psychologically and physically.  this is quite
DL>  CR> obvious, as (a) there has never been a female president in
DL>  CR> the leading country of the world, and (b) there has NEVER
DL>
DL>  Queen Victoria?  Queen Elizibeth?  Boadicia?  Cleopatra?
DL>  Catherine the Great?  How many world history classes DID you
DL>  sleep through.  (assuming I understand your "female president"
DL>  statement)

  huh?  time to lay of the drugs, friend.  i do not believe that QUEEN Victoria
was a president.. nor was QUEEN Elizabeth... and i was referring to the United
States... where both you and I live... most likely the pinnacle of freedom in
the world.. the country where (at least at one time, when feminism was seen for
the angry outcry that it is) people have had the ability to create what they can
of what they are.

DL>
DL>  CR> been a female weight-lifter even NEARLY as strong as a
DL>  CR> male.  women are physically weaker, and mentally less
DL>  CR> rational, the latter which could be obviously argued to a
DL>
DL>  Do you think that fighting someone to the death just because he
DL>  insulted you is very rational?  Or perhaps the rounding up of fellow

  yes.  at the time when this occurred, it was very rational.  if you were to
show to others that you were woman-like (i.e. run to the corner and cry) then
you were of no use to the society.  do you think that worrying about make-up is
very rational?  and please, don't come back with a "well, there are some women
who do not wear makeup" because this is quite obvious.  on a similar line, there
are some men who naturally are born with breasts.  obviously, in an issue like
this, we must speak *generally*.  please keep this in mind.


DL>  CR>  yes, *some* women in *some* societies have been burdened
DL>  CR> with *some* of the male's responsibilities, but not many...
DL>  CR> for instance, women, whether african, or indian, or many
DL>  CR> other cultures, were never taught to hunt.  some cultures
DL>  CR> even PROHIBITED women from hunting, for fear that their
DL>  CR> fragility might be threatened.
DL>
DL>  "fragility" - I'm not a woman, so I cannot speak from experience (nor do

DL>  I want to be able to).  However, have you even considered the pain and
DL>  suffering encountered due to childbirth?  I've had nasty injuries, but

  no, i have not considered this.  nor do i particularly care.  the vagina is an
organ which was meant for 3 basic purposes: a) release of urine, b)
fertilization, and c) childbirth.  although i would not personally like to have
a baby, i find this irrelevant to the conversation.

DL>  smaller bodily openings.  Frankly, I don't think that I could take it.
DL>  And if you think that you could do it and keep smiling, then you're a
DL>  superhuman mutant or a fool.

  whatever.  i made no refreneces to the fact that i could have a baby and smile
simultaniously.

DL>  Most of the cultures you elude to have a strict policy of keeping the
DL>  people necessary to creating the future food gathers out of the path of
DL>  wild animals.  Stop to think what would happen to a village if all the
DL>  women were killed off because some stupid hunter caused the animal to
DL>  women were killed off

  ahh!  you have finally caught my drift (well part of it anyway).  yes, you are
absolutely right.  but you just put your foot in your mouth by agreeing with me
and therefore contradicting yourself... as i had said, WOMEN WERE NOT ALLOWED TO
HUNT.  "why" is not something which pertains to anything i have said.
                                          have a peachy day,
                                                        ..c.raven..
--- CNet/3
 * Origin: The Bard's Tavern Denton, TX (817)243-5110 USR 28.8   (1:393/7)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 130 of 284
 From : Nicolai Shapero                     1:102/524       .åò 15 .åâ 96 07:37
 To   : Kim Wheat
 Subj : Star Trek
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Feb 12 17:21>, Kim Wheat (1:271/285) wrote to Chris Carter:

 KW> And have no idea why I always thought Nicolai was Kay's
 KW>SISTER??!! <g>

 KW> Could I throw myself on the court and exclaim that 'Nicolai' is
 KW> much to close to 'Nicole' and for some unscientific reason the
 KW> brain always pronounced it 'Nicole'??!

One man deserves the credit,
One man deserves the blame,
And Nicolai Invanovitch Lobatchevskii is his name,
HAI!

-- Tom Lehrer, NICOLAI INVANOVITCH LOBATCHEVSKII

N. Lobatchevskii was a mathematician in the latter part of the 19th century.  A
male mathematician.  Remember it that way.

Cheers,

-- Nicolai Shapero, the most definitely male sysop of StormGate Aerie


--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 131 of 284
 From : Darre LuAllen                       1:3637/1        .pä 14 .åâ 96 09:41
 To   : Ecarey
 Subj : Re: Star Trek
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 On 02-12-96 Ecarey wrote to Darre Luallen...

 DL> Most of the cultures you elude to have a strict policy of keeping the
 DL> people necessary to creating the future food gathers out of the path of
 DL> wild animals.  Stop to think what would happen to a village if all the
 DL> women were killed off because some stupid hunter caused the animal to
 DL> charge the wrong way.  Go on, I'll wait. (Hum.  Hum.  HumHum.)

 E > Darre, you're making the wildly optimistic assumption that Christian
 E > _realizes_ that women in "primitive" cultures were the main
 E > food-gatherers, and that the meat the men hunted was an
 E > addition, not a staple. I personally doubt that he does
 E > realize this.

 Actually, you highlight on a potential argument that I missed.  (Bad me.
 Bad me.  Sit.  Stay.)  What I was referring to was something I think that
 he can easily see: child-bearing.  I personally wish I had thought of the
 point which you brought up.  Hum... Oh well.  You do have a good point.
 I don't know if you saw my post on his close-mindedness, but I think all
 arguments are wasted at this point.  You know, SF/F stories are littered
 with people like this.  (Swerve... Crash... Are we back on topic yet? 8) )
 Usually, they get eaten by the alien beastie or de-selected by the heroes/
 villians.

                                            At your Service,
                                            Darre LuAllen
                                            Modern Rogue

___
 * OFFLINE 1.56 * C:\DAMSEL.EXE crosslinked with DISTRESS.COM...RESCUE?


--- Maximus/2 3.01
 * Origin: Cumberland BBS TN 615/526-3347 V34 (1:3637/1)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 132 of 284
 From : Angel Araquistain                   2:344/3         .òp 06 .åâ 96 09:52
 To   : Brandon Wolgast
 Subj : Foundation Again
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 Hi, Brandon.

 BW> Prelude to Foundation
 BW> Foundation
 BW> Foundations Edge
 BW> Second Foundation
 BW> Foundation and Empire
 BW> Forward the Foundation

 BW> Those are probably all wrong, but again, the books in the stores do
 BW> not tell what order they fall in. I am probably missing one also.
 BW> Again, I want to thank anyone for any help they can give me.

Prelude to Foundation
Forward the Foundation
FOUNDATION
FOUNDATION AND EMPIRE
SECOND FOUNDATION
Foundations Edge
Foundation and Earth

Greetings.


... Use insecticida ENDER: Los mata bien muertos.
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

--- PCBoard (R) v15.22/10
 * Origin: Kender (2:344/3)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 133 of 284
 From : Gerry Normandeau                    1:163/430       .pä 14 .åâ 96 17:07
 To   : Elizabeth H. Penrose
 Subj : Re: Twelve Monkeys
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On 02-11-96  06:37 Elizabeth H. Penrose strung up Gerry Normandeau on the
gallows pole because of Twelve Monkeys!

 EHP> The director of the short called himself "Chris Marker"; a
 EHP> pseudonym for a French Marxist.  The short was called "La
 EHP> Jetee".  Never "The Jetty".  It is always kept in the
 EHP> French form.  And while I know all this, I've never seen it.

Thanks for your reply. I have found what I was looking for. Read
post to the moderator. It is avaliabul on video so check out the
video shops in your area it is worth watching! :)

Gerry Normandeau \ Nexis <</*/* *\*\>> Fido Address-1:163/115
   ~~~~~~~~~~~
... My cat is good for nothing, but he's very, very good!
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

--- Maximus 2.01wb
 * Origin: Watership Down BBS, Kanata , ON (1:163/430)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 134 of 284
 From : Jon Foster                          1:153/7019      .åò 15 .åâ 96 21:32
 To   : All
 Subj : NorwesCon 19
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10464
I was just wondering if anyone in this echo is going to NorwesCon 19 at the
SeaTac Red Lion in April.

---
 * Origin: * T.S. * New Westminster, B.C. * Lady 8i8's Playground * (1:153/7019)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 135 of 284
 From : Debbie Bickford                     1:203/996       .ÿò 16 .åâ 96 09:41
 To   : Kay Shapero
 Subj : Virtual Reality
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12  91-0092

-> On <Feb 13 12:07>, Debbie Bickford (1:203/996) wrote to Kay Shapero:
->
-> DB>Have you seen James Hogan's new _Alternate Reality_?  It's
-> DB>another intriguing look at VR and AR.  Now, if I could just find
-> DB>my copy and see how it turns out...
->
-> Nope; I've never cared for Hogan's style.  Nothing specific I can poi
-> - it just doesn't seem to grab me particularly.
->
->
-> ... "Concerning taste there can be no argument" said the lady as she
-> kissed the cow.
->

I'm presuming the above is part of the message and not a tag line...B:)
I enjoyed his first book in what would be the Ganymede series, thought
the others went downhill (sequelitis) and really liked his other
stand-alones.  A friend of mine discussed it and decided one of the
things we appreciated was that he'd give about three explanations of
what could be difficult to understand, starting with the most complex,
so if you got that one, you could just kind of skip over the others.

--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12
 * Origin: Xanth-Wildcat 4.12 Sac CA 916-364-1826 28800 V34  (1:203/996.0)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 136 of 284
 From : Lawrence E Dunlap                   1:106/2927      .ÿò 16 .åâ 96 21:54
 To   : Barton Paul Levenson
 Subj : weird tv
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

MJ>On (27 Jan 96) Barton Paul Levenson wrote to Frank Swarbrick...
MJ>
MJ>BP> Don't forget the wonderful, thoughtful British import, UFO, which took
MJ>BP> an absurd premise and made some spectacular TV SF out of it.  It took
MJ>BP> place ten years in the future, in (gasp) 1980!  When there would be a
MJ>BP> base on the Moon and intelligent robot spacecraft in Earth orbit.  I
MJ>BP> haven't seen it on the air in years, alas.

   In fact, one episode won a Hugo the following year of its airing.
There wasn't any better quality SF TV showing on American TV that year.
That UFO ep was one where the CO of ShADO fought a alien humanoid who
came able to operate in Earth's environment.

   I forgot the name of ep, or the name the CO character from SHADO

   CO and Alien sparred with the alien jumping between points of space/time.

   SHADO CO had to take the alien down dead, he was acclimated to
Earth, running free on the aboveground property of SHADO's secret HQ and
Alien was snooping!

   CO eventually killed Alien. Won'd spoiler the ending in case you
want it that way.



Lawrence E Dunlap
(1:106/2927)
___
* UniQWK #5136* R2D2, I suggest a new strategy... let the Cardassian win!

--- Alexi/Mail 2.02b (#10000)
 * Origin: Computer Living F'n BBS-Houston, TX 713-444-2927 (1:106/2927)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 137 of 284
 From : Owen E. Oulton                      1:243/45        .ÿò 16 .åâ 96 20:52
 To   : Frank Glover
 Subj : Re: Star Trek Sexism
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 FG>    Still, it's a shame we didn't actually see a woman
 FG> commanding a Federation starship (`The Enterprise
 FG> Incident' shows that Romulans have no qualms!) until
 FG> the opening scenes of Star Trek IV.

OTOH, the use of footage from The Cage in the two-parter The Menagerie does mean
that we did at least see a female XO, if only in flashbacks, which does
establish the probability that there were female COs.

CFN, O

--- Maximus 2.01wb
 * Origin: Pandora's Box, Ottawa, Ont. 613-829-1209 (1:243/45)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 138 of 284
 From : Phill Ash                           1:275/160       .ÿò 16 .åâ 96 08:21
 To   : Timothy H. Willis
 Subj : Alien threats?
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE 1.11+

 THW> Anyway...
 THW> Have you by any chance read Harry Turtledove's "World War:" Saga?
 THW> (Three books so far, two in pb, and the third just out in hb.)  It's a
 THW> tale  of alien invasion in 1942, right when WW-2 was getting nice and
 THW> hot.  It's a pretty good example of so-called superior aliens invading
 THW> and ending up  like the dog that just bit someone on their wooden
 THW> leg... and the peg-legged one has a *big* stick.
 THW> Mostly I just lurk here, but I couldn't pass this one up.  I really
 THW> do recomment the books... the first one is titled "World War: In the
 THW> Balance". Seeya around

        GREAT SERIES!!!
        Turtledove is a genius... I've got a friend who, though he hates
        SF in any form, is a WWII buff and is goading me to let him
        borrow "Tilting the Balance"!

        The one thing that really interests me about the series is that,
        aside from the spacecraft and hydrogen-based propulsion systems,
        The Race is not that far ahead of "current-day" technology.  In
        that light, the books become a stage for an "are we any better
        today than we were 50 years ago" comparison.

        Any thoughts?


Your pal:  PhlAsh
---
 þ Ùystertags v1.1 þ They couldn't have known that on that night
~~~ ReneWave v1.01 [NR]
--- Smile :)
 * Origin: * The Beast's Lair * (804)498-3070 * Va Beach VA * (1:275/160)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 139 of 284
 From : Chris Carter                        1:105/290.23    .åò 15 .åâ 96 04:25
 To   : Kim Wheat
 Subj : Star Trek
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On (12 Feb 96) Kim Wheat wrote to Chris Carter...

 KW> (I refuse...simply refuse, to give creedence to "It's was the
 KW> 60's, Kim") <g>

It was probably the '70s. ;~)

Chris - carter@teleport.com


... At the sign of Henry the Eighth's Fifth

--- PPoint 2.00
 * Origin: Grid Epsilon Coords. 105x290x23 (1:105/290.23)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 140 of 284
 From : Chris Carter                        1:105/290.23    .ÿò 16 .åâ 96 03:29
 To   : Nicolai Shapero
 Subj : Star Trek Generations
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On (14 Feb 96) Nicolai Shapero wrote to Todd Sullivan...

 NS> I'll have to dig out my tape of ALL GOOD THINGS to be sure, of
 NS> course. But based on the end of GENERATIONS, with the Enterprise D
 NS> declared "scrap/no salvage attempt" it looks like a "refitted" E-D
 NS> is definitely not a possibility for the "core" timeline.

Right.  And it's crucial to remember that the events in ALL GOOD THINGS
do not represent the core timeline, but are an extrapolation from the
time displacement suffered by Captain Picard.

Chris - carter@teleport.com


... "Stop thief!  Bring back the lint from my navel!"

--- PPoint 2.00
 * Origin: Grid Epsilon Coords. 105x290x23 (1:105/290.23)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 141 of 284
 From : JOHN ROSS                           1:116/1977      .ÿò 16 .åâ 96 18:55
 To   : KAY SHAPERO
 Subj : Help
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.SPTH: FidoNet#1:116/1977 :369/110
Kay ,I heard a song at a con once called ,Banned From Argo,but have been
unable to find a local source.Do you perchance have the lyrics?or if not
where I could get them.
Thanks in advance.

---
 þ SLMR 2.1a þ If this were an actual tagline, it would be funny.

--- AdeptXBBS v1.06(Registered)
 * Origin: AdeptXBBS (1:116/1977)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 142 of 284
 From : Brian Minsker                       1:325/118       .óá 17 .åâ 96 00:51
 To   : Robert Lidgren
 Subj : "Q" On Voyager
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 RL> This is it!  The week in which "Q" appears on Star Trek:
 RL> Voyager.  Has anyone head anything at all about the CONTENT of
 RL> the show?  All I've heard is that "Q"
 RL> is going to appear and, I assume, "Let the fun begin!"  He
 RL> certainly seems to have a secure future as a character in the
 RL> many Star Trek incarnations.  I wonder if he'll also make an
 RL> appearance in the next STTNG movie.  Has anyone heard anything
 RL> about what's up with the new movie?

The blurb in TVGuide says "Two Qs spell double trouble for Voyager: one
(Gerrit Graham) materializes and wishes to kill himself, while the other
(John de Lancie), who fears what it may do to the Continuum, seeks to
prevent the suicide by imprisoning his fellow Q for eternity."  Jonathan
Frakes will be in the episode as well.  The episode is called "Death
Wish".  A sidebar in the Mulgrew/de Lancie interfiew states that Frakes
has been signed to act in and direct ST8.  Hope that's a good enough
news fix for you. :-)

... Honk if you haven't slept with Commander Riker.
___ via Silver Xpress V3.02

--- Maximus/2 3.01
 * Origin: The Ozone Layer, Williston, VT. (802) 862-5058 (1:325/118)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 143 of 284
 From : Meredith Billington                 1:109/611       .óá 17 .åâ 96 17:21
 To   : All
 Subj : Aliens
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
All,

       I was wondering if Stephen Perry has written anymore e Earth Hive
Books.  If so, what are the titles?

Meredith

.NOTE: IceEdit 1.60 E17688
--- QuickBBS 2.80 GoldBase (Zeta-1)
 * Origin: AD Message BBS/10th Year Online! (703)241-1826 (1:109/611@FIDONET)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 144 of 284
 From : Judy Hayes                          1:154/40        .óá 17 .åâ 96 15:58
 To   : JOHN ROSS
 Subj : Re: Help
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

-> "Who me? I'm just plain & simple." said JOHN.

 JR> Kay ,I heard a song at a con once called ,Banned From Argo,but have
 JR> been unable to find a local source.Do you perchance have the lyrics?or
 JR> if not where I could get them.


"Banned from Argos, every one.
  Banned from Argos, just for having a little fun."

That one?

If Kay can't help you drop me a note and I'll see if I can dig it up.

      --Quoshara



... A stich in time saves nine, but does that include temporal anomolies?
---
 * Origin: Anonymous BBS -=- Non plus Ultra -=- 414-251-2580 (1:154/40)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 145 of 284
 From : Dean Sweatman                       1:396/40        .óá 17 .åâ 96 15:36
 To   : Jon Helis (#6)
 Subj : What next?
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: InterEcho 1.12 6E010867
 * Crossposted from: L_FIAWOL

-=> Quoting #6 to Dean Sweatman <=-

 #6> What do you think of this Dean?  I guess Trekkies go for
 #6> anything!

 KA> * Originally By: Mark Holtz
 KA> * Originally To: All
 KA> * Originally Re: Star Trek:The Experience
 KA> * Original Area: TREK_VOYAGER
 KA> * Forwarded by : Blue Wave v2.12

 KA> @SUBJECT:Star Trek:The Experience groundbreaking                     N
 KA> #PID: BWTG 3.11 [Reg]
 KA> @MSGID: 1:203/1701.0 311e75e0
 KA> Hey, Larry, looks like you can plan your vacation next year in Vegas!
 KA> I sure  would love to go!

 KA> == Forwarded Message Follows =========================================

 KA> * Originally By: snoop@vegas.infi.net
 KA> * Originally To: All
 KA> * Originally Re: Star Trek:The Experience groundbreaking
 KA> * Original Date: 07 Feb 96  17:02:22
 KA> * Original Area: Star Trek News & Info (Usenet)
 KA> * Forwarded by : Blue Wave/DOS v2.21

 KA> The source for the article comes from the January 25, 1996 Las Vegas
 KA> Review Journal, Page 1A and 2A.  My summary Follows:

 KA> Hi there everyone!

 KA> Living in Las Vegas we get some nice perks:  We can lose all our money
 KA> at the tables, good cheap food and soon to come, Star Trek:The
 KA> Experience!

 KA> Recently on January 24th top executives from Hilton Hotels as well as
 KA> Paramount Parks held the official groundbreaking ceremony for this
 KA> fantastic sounding attraction.

 KA> Star Trek:The Experience will be many things.  It's 65,000 quare feet
 KA> will contain such goodies as a mock up version of the bridge of the
 KA> starship Enterprise, a 22 minute long shuttlecraft simulator ride, a
 KA> dining and retail area, and a 22,000 square foot casino (this is after
 KA> all Las Vegas). The casino area (Spacequest Casino) will feature
 KA> windows high above the floor that will simulate the illusion of
 KA> orbiting the earth on a space station.

 KA> The ceremony was itself rather impressive, they had a simulated
 KA> wormhole implosion, and a large fireworks display, that showed itself
 KA> in the form of the Star Trek logo with the words Star Trek:The
 KA> Experience under that.
 KA> Also attending the ceremony were Trek stars, Jonathan Frakes, Gates
 KA> McFadden, and Armin Shimerman.  Star Trek:The Experience is slated to
 KA> open in the spring of 1997.

 KA> If you have any more questions about this project, please feel free to
 KA> E-Mail me at:
 KA> Snoop@vegas.infi.net and I'll try to answer them for you.  For now
 KA> though it looks like it's time to get a job application!  :)

 KA> Evan J. Malik

 KA> End of article.

 KA> Evan

Are you Sure that you REALLY WANT TO KNOW? :^)

I think that there has come into being a a blend of fandom and the frenges that
are willing to spend their money on anything that suits their fancy and that the
business world is taking every oppertunity that they can of sucking up
everything that the fen are willing to part with.  This casino is just the top
of the heap with autographed photos and Special packaged items (Get Generations
now in a Foil stamped limited collectors box) being offered through the mail, at
cons/shows, magazines and TV.  The only thing that is going to stop these dirty
dealers from preying upon Fandom and the frenge is for us to say enough is
enough and stop spending our money so foolishly.

We will be seeing resturants soon with the waiters dressed as super heroes for
the comics inclined and I am sure that it won't be long till we find a 10
forward in every major city.

Nuff said

... Dean Sweatman's Continuing and Relentless quest toward Fuggheadedness

___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20 [NR]


--- InterEcho 1.12
 * Origin: REUNION BBS, Harahan, La., USA (504) 738-5162 Try God (1:396/40)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 146 of 284
 From : Tommy Kellerman                     2:205/356       .ÿò 16 .åâ 96 21:14
 To   : Owen E. Oulton
 Subj : X-FILES
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
In a message dated 12-Feb-96 04:29:48, Owen E. Oulton wrote:

 FS> syzygy: a pair of things, eps. a pair of opposites

 OEO> Actually, I didn't write that, I replied to it, but...

Sorry. Just wanted something to refer to, easily.

 TK> How do you pronounce this word?

 OEO> It's pronounced "si-zidj-ey."

Thanks for sharing.


/// -Tommy K.- \\\

--- Xenolink 1.0 Z.3, EmacsXL.4
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Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 147 of 284
 From : Tommy Kellerman                     2:205/356       .ÿò 16 .åâ 96 21:20
 To   : Kay Shapero
 Subj : Ufo
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
In a message dated 12-Feb-96 18:06:49, Kay Shapero wrote:

 TK>You can't estimate the distance to a star, and maybe not to this
 TK>either, but it was much more closer than a satellite or a star,
 TK>and it kept on dropping
 TK>these shooting stars on the ground, so I can't accept the idea of

 KS> Hmm... sounds to me like a bolide seen head on.  This is a big enough
 KS> meteorite to make a spectacular display on the way in, shedding bits and
 KS> lighting up the sky.

Hmm. I'm sorry, I don't know what a bolide is. Maybe you could enlighten me?

Nevertheless, this "thing" was up in the air for more than an hour.


/// -Tommy K.- \\\

--- Xenolink 1.0 Z.3, EmacsXL.4
 * Origin: NoLimit, Furudal +46-258-10071 (2:205/356)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 148 of 284
 From : Tommy Kellerman                     2:205/356       .ÿò 16 .åâ 96 22:30
 To   : Frank Glover
 Subj : Re: Alien threats?
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
In a message dated 12-Feb-96 22:27:01, Frank Glover wrote:

TK>  Yes, we have the intelligence and the body required to reach out into
TK>  the galaxy, but wouldn't this make us a powerful ally, instead of the
TK>  enemy?

 FG>   Or a *potential* threat.

With OUR technology? Our greatest weapon is the will to live, or survive (IMHO).

 FG>   It wouldn't have to be anything we did. Aliens could be xenophobic,
 FG> too.

Guess you're right.

TK>  Nuke us? Why would they? We are a quite peaceful race, living in a
TK>  world which still has blue oceans and fertile agricultural areas. If
TK>  they nuked us they wouldn't have the living world of today before
TK>  them, just a sterile lifeless rock. I don't know, but I don't think
TK>  this is their purpose.

 FG>    Their reply may be; "So what?"

Well yes, but in that case, why wait?

 FG>    It's very important that anyone following this thread understand  that
 FG> I think our first contact, in all likelyhood *will* be with  benign,
 FG> non-aggressive beings. I simply suspect they far outnumber the  `bad
 FG> guys.' However, I also never believed the argument that violent,
 FG> aggressive races will destroy themselves before acheiving interstellar
 FG> travel, either.

Why not? Civilisations could destroy themselves very easily, like if some
germ (produced) or some weapon would go "haywire".

 FG> We should not develop a paranoia of our own, just be  mindful of
 FG> all the possibilites.

I totally agree. But all we can do is to hope there will be a peaceful
contact... like you and I do.


Sincerely,

/// -Tommy K.- \\\

--- Xenolink 1.0 Z.3, EmacsXL.4
 * Origin: NoLimit, Furudal +46-258-10071 (2:205/356)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 149 of 284
 From : Tommy Kellerman                     2:205/356       .ÿò 16 .åâ 96 22:48
 To   : Mark Jones
 Subj : Alien threats?
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
In a message dated 12-Feb-96 01:18:04, Mark Jones wrote:

 TK> Nuke us? Why would they? We are a quite peaceful race, living in a
 TK> world which still has blue oceans and fertile agricultural areas. If
 TK> they nuked us they wouldn't have the living world of today before
 TK> them, just a sterile lifeless rock. I don't know, but I don't think
 TK> this is their purpose.

 MJ>    Why would they nuke us?  Why *wouldn't* they nuke us?  I can think
 MJ> of a number of reasons for them to nuke us.

All purely hypothetical, I hope... ?


 MJ> 1.  They're an alien form of life.  They can't use our environment
 MJ> (and therefore have no compunctions about destroying it), but consider
 MJ> us a potential threat--we might get out and compete with them for
 MJ> resources.  So they eradicate us.

Well, haven't you considered the opportunity to cooperate? They get something
from us, and vice versa... They won't kick our asses before they have gotten
everything that they still haven't got, now IF, they are the enemy.

But I think I'm following Frank's footsteps rather than yours(no pun intended).

 MJ> 2.  We are unwilling and/or unable to worship their god(s).  Maybe we
 MJ> find their religion silly.  Maybe we *can't* perform the proper
 MJ> rituals of worship because we don't have the physiology required.  In
 MJ> any case, our failure to worship is an unforgiveable sin--so they nuke
 MJ> us out of existence.

How do you know if they have a god? Maybe they don't have a religion at all.
But if they do in the way you're saying, I guess we're toast.

 MJ> 3.  We occupy a planet they can't use (they require a different
 MJ> environment), but which an enemy race *could*.  So they destroy the
 MJ> planet (and us) to prevent the enemy from using it.  [This is an old
 MJ> and hallowed technique here on earth during warfare....]

If they're smart, they would USE us instead of terminating the entire planet.
Compared to them, we MAY be low-tech, but both sides may still benefit from an
alliance.

 MJ> 4.  We are violating any number of potential religious, political,
 MJ> economic or social taboos--or are failing to comply with any number of
 MJ> religious, political, economic or social customs.  And they find our
 MJ> behavior absolutely unforgiveable.  So they eradicate us.

One would think that they would guide us "right" instead of killing us until
dead. If they're high-tech, why wouldn't they be "high-cult" and therefore
understandable... ?


/// -Tommy K.- \\\

--- Xenolink 1.0 Z.3, EmacsXL.4
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Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 150 of 284
 From : Tommy Kellerman                     2:205/356       .ÿò 16 .åâ 96 23:16
 To   : Kay Shapero
 Subj : clarification
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
In a message dated 13-Feb-96 10:35:32, Kay Shapero wrote:

 KS> I'm moderator of FILK - if you're  interested in sf folksongs, come on

 over some time!

Sorry for interrupting but, SF FOLKSONGS ???

Tell me all about it! (Can't access it from Sweden)


Sincerely,


/// -Tommy K.- \\\

--- Xenolink 1.0 Z.3, EmacsXL.4
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Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 151 of 284
 From : Tommy Kellerman                     2:205/356       .ÿò 16 .åâ 96 23:23
 To   : Hanke Penning
 Subj : New here!
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
In a message dated 13-Feb-96 00:00:00, Hanke Penning wrote:

 HP> Hello folks,

Hi Hank' !  :)

 HP> I would like to introduce myself. I'am new in this area. I'm
 HP> a SF-fan from germany (so my english might not be the best -
 HP> sorry for that), 29 years old and sf-interested since I was
 HP> 12 years old.

Well, I don't think there's someone around here sitting with their grammar-
books, don't worry about it.

 HP> I prefered authors like John Brunner, John Sladek, sometimes
 HP> Lem, but also Pratchett. Also I'm watching STARTREK on TV or
 HP> BAB5 - but in my opinion the movies are better than the
 HP> books.

I agree. Welcome!


/// -Tommy K.- \\\  * From Sweden, Scand *

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Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 152 of 284
 From : Tommy Kellerman                     2:205/356       .ÿò 16 .åâ 96 23:33
 To   : Frank Glover
 Subj : BS!!
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
In a message dated 12-Feb-96 23:04:05, Frank Glover wrote:

CO>  our planet.  And that is, the factor that we humans are the worst
CO>  forms
CO>  of life in the entire universe.  Number one factor is that we attack

 FG>    Umm, you must have access to something I greatly wish the rest of  had:
 FG> knowledge of the existence and nature of intelligent life  elsewhere in
 FG> the universe. How else can you know that?

 FG>    We need to clean up our act, it's true. It's also possible to be
 FG> *worse* than us.

Ever seen the movie "Dune"? The Harkonnens are crueller than any humans I've
seen in fiction, installing "heart plugs" and so on...


/// -Tommy K.- \\\

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Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 153 of 284
 From : Frank Glover                        1:2613/477      .óá 17 .åâ 96 23:38
 To   : Nicolai Shapero
 Subj : Re: Star Trek Generations
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

NS>  I'll have to dig out my tape of ALL GOOD THINGS to be sure, of
NS>  course.  But based on the end of GENERATIONS, with the Enterprise D
NS>  declared "scrap/no salvage attempt" it looks like a "refitted" E-D is
NS>  definitely not a possibility for the "core" timeline.

   Agreed. Like Ebenezer Scrooge's headstone (ATG had a Dickenesian flavor to
it, don't you think?), that upgraded Enterprise-D is a future that might have
been, but now cannot.

   Side note: Skimming the opening pages of Shatner's `The Ashes of Eden,' we're
given a scene where Spock stands at the crude gravesite of Kirk (although
knowing that his body had already been removed by Starfleet rescue teams),
contemplating how he'd cheated death still one more time to get that far. And
either his thoughts or the narrative refers to Fleet engineers dismantling the
saucer of the E-D in the distance. Not for salvage or recovery, for Prime
Directive concerns. The inhabited world in that system that Kirk and Picard had
saved, would eventually learn interplanetary travel, come here, and must find no
evidence of other intelligence. At least, presumably, until they got warp
technology.

   This isn't canon, of course, but it makes sense. Had she come down in some
remote system with no sentients, I suppose it would be a matter of ripping out
any espically senitive technology, and abandoning the rest.

   Frank


--- QuickBBS 2.80 GoldBase (Zeta-1)
 * Origin: The Matrix Data Bank BBS, Rochester, Ny (1:2613/477)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 154 of 284
 From : Anne Swasey                         1:2613/313      .óá 17 .åâ 96 07:39
 To   : Christian Raven
 Subj : Re: Star Trek
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
You failed to make your point that women are as you define them to be
and quite completely ignored all that I had said explaining past
accomplishments or lack thereof.  It seems you wish to see us as less
than whatever you view youself to be. (quite possibly cute nice
additions) However, I find that insulting. I do not think that you are
up for a debate. In other words, I perceive you to be simply opinionated
& wishing to express it.  Therefore, I am closing my end to this
*discussion*.

--- QScan/PCB v1.17b / 01-0406
 * Origin: Knight Moves - Rochester,NY 716-865-2106 (1:2613/313)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 155 of 284
 From : Kim Wheat                           1:271/285       .óá 17 .åâ 96 14:05
 To   : Channon Lang
 Subj : Star Trek
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
---<<*<<< Channon dazzled Buc Wheat with these words of wisdom!! >>>**>>----

 KW> Found them on sale and bought up a /bunch/ of um! :>

 CL> So where do you get yours? On sale, I mean.

 At our nearby CUDDLES store, of course! :>

 KW> Re: B5

 KW> Will be watching the new episode on Wednesday and I'll let you know.

 CL> I missed the one Wednesday...did you see it?...Actually, I thought it
 CL> was on Sunday....or are you talking about DS9?

 Depends on the area, when the shows are shown. Here in ol' Va Beach,
 we have X-files (Fri), DS9 (Sat), Highlander (Sun), V'ger (Mon) and
 B5 (Wed).

 On the B5 episode....the plot just happened to be a tried and blue
 plot-line....the ol' alien symbiote thingie. But I didn't mind that
 due to the fact that when I first watched B5 in season one, I was
 always impressed with the plot. The beef I had w/ the TV series was
 the dismal acting and the characters overall. And that's what I
 paid the most attention to on Wednesday.

 (Pardon me for not knowing character names here...) but the senior
 female bridge officer was VASTLY improved since I've last watched
 it. And the guy was had the long black hair and beard....really
 really enjoyed him...reminded me of a medieval bard...is he a
 regular cast member?? The security chief hasn't changed much, but
 then it was the only character I enjoyed in season 1, so that too
 was okay.

 Didn't see the alien dude with the fan type hair, in this one. The
 guy who reminded me of the typical Russian-Guy. He was the one that
 truly irked me....him and that lizard looking guy. Don't know if they
 are still in the show or not.

 The Captain wasn't seen much in this episode, so didn't have a chance
 to see how he's come. But overall, I was tweeked enough that I want
 to watch the next episode. :>

 KW> Re: V'ger

 KW> Is it me, or are the Klingons turning into wimps??? I mean, I
 KW> always knew Worf was a puff....but in the last DS9 episode, Kira
 KW> whips their butts???!! What the heck is going on in the Empire??!
 KW> These are the dudes that sit around in pubs and knock each other out
 KW> with their heads....for FUN, even!!! I tell ya....if I was that
 KW> "warrior", I'd not have the hon-hok-a's to walk around that ship with
 KW> head held high!! <g> Tis truly a dark time for the ol' Empire!

 CL> YEAH! I'm glad someone else see's it too! I figured it was because
 CL> Worf was raised with humans...I gave him that much benefit of the
 CL> doubt....but here lately, those Klingons are nothing but
 CL> wussies....I'm willing to bet that even Quark could take one
 CL> out...without cheating...

 Sad to see...the Cardassians aren't really that *imposing* to me,
 ever since they were introduced....and the Romulans...well gotta
 admit it here...ever since TNG, I have never liked their costumes...
 you can't take a dude seriously when he's wearing what looks like
 a potatoe sack for a shirt! <g> The Klingons were always a true
 Warrior caste, based on a combination of American Indian heritage
 and a Kzin society....but since they teamed up with the Federation
 something has changed...and it's a change I don't like! Borg...
 we got Win95 for them....they pretty much have been neutralized as
 a viable threat.

 Even the guys who work for the Dominian....names escapes me, haven't
 filled this niche! We need a truly Predator/Kzin/Alien type race
 that will really kick some Federation butt!! <g>

 KW> Saw the next episode V'ger previews....heart beat when up when I
 KW> heard the clip where Janeway sez, "Start the self-destruct sequance."
 KW> But I imagine my luck ain't THAT good! :>

 CL> I kinda liked it....I thought the computer arguing with itself was
 CL> pretty funny. The next one is the one that I think will be
 CL> interesting....The  return of Q and all...And Jonathan Frakes is
 CL> appearing too....

 Even I might watch this episode on Monday. I've never liked Q, myself.
 Think the writers made a big mistake with this character. Never, ever
 have a 'Superman' type character on the show!!! The only way to have
 interesting plots that don't repeat themselves endlessly is to remove
 his powers..and then he's no longer Q! And if he keeps his powers,
 then it's just a rehashed story! Stupid move to have come up with this
 guy!

 If Q appears on V'ger...then why isn't the show finished then?? He
 simply pops them back to Fed space and everyone goes home. This won't
 happen, of course....but I bet you the reasons this doesn't take place
 won't be satisfactory. Therefore, once again, it'll prove that this
 character just doesn't work as a viable plot device.

 Kim :)


... Theatre is life.  Film is art.  Television is furniture.
--- GEcho 1.00
 * Origin: From Trekkies & from B5ers who hate Trek save us! (1:271/285.0)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 156 of 284
 From : Kim Wheat                           1:271/285       .óá 17 .åâ 96 14:27
 To   : Nicolai Shapero
 Subj : Star Trek
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
---<<*<<< Nicolai dazzled Buc Wheat with these words of wisdom!! >>>**>>----

 KW> And have no idea why I always thought Nicolai was Kay's
 KW>SISTER??!! <g>

 KW> Could I throw myself on the court and exclaim that 'Nicolai' is
 KW> much to close to 'Nicole' and for some unscientific reason the
 KW> brain always pronounced it 'Nicole'??!

 NS> One man deserves the credit,
 NS> One man deserves the blame,
 NS> And Nicolai Invanovitch Lobatchevskii is his name,
 NS> HAI!

 NS> N. Lobatchevskii was a mathematician in the latter part of the 19th
 NS> century.  A male mathematician.  Remember it that way.
 NS> Cheers,

 Don't worry, Nicolai....the correct gender is NOW quite firmly placed
 in my gray matter!! <g> I thought of you on the 14th when I read
 my Internet E-mail and discovered a very nice Valentine poem in my
 box....from 'John'! <g>

 Of course I took immense delight in replying, in poem form of course,
 his slight mistake:

  He (names changed to protect the innocent) came across my name on
 the apf (Pratchett) echo..(for those familiar with Discworld)....


 > Kim I read all of your posts,
 > That you put out on the net,
 > And if we ever were to meet,
 > Sweet music we would make, I'd bet.
 > So as sure as the Turtle moves,
 > And you are sweet and fine,
 > I'll ask you now with open heart,
 > Will you be my Valentine?

 John, I opened my mail and saw this surprise,
 A lovely and witty poem did assault my eyes.
 Sweet music sounds neat,
 You, and I, and a turtle named Pete!
 But one problem, I see, might come to the fore...
 Before flowers you buy, and arrive at my door.
 A small, minute detail I bring out in this tale....
 Yes, my first name is Kim...but, alas, I am male!

 Kim :)


... Sheesh, Dad could've named me 'Puff'!! :>
--- GEcho 1.00
 * Origin: From Trekkies & from B5ers who hate Trek save us! (1:271/285.0)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 157 of 284
 From : Kim Wheat                           1:271/285       .óá 17 .åâ 96 14:40
 To   : Barton Paul Levenson
 Subj : Star Trek Sexism
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
---<<*<<< Owen dazzled Buc Wheat with these words of wisdom!! >>>**>>----

 BPL> The situation in the last episode of the third season of the original,
 BPL> where women per se were not allowed to command starships, is immoral.
 BPL> (And also showed a serious failure of imagination on Gene Roddenberry's
 BPL> part.)

 Hi Barton,

    Until one remembers the society restraints at the time Gene first
 produced ST, and the flack he got over a female Number One?

    Another thing that everyone seems to have forgotten is the number
 of female Admirals in Starfleet....especially in TNG. It seemed for
 a while there that you HAD to be female to be an admiral!! <G>

    And one supposes....in order to become an Admiral, one had to spend
 a certain amount of time as a Captain first. So I suppose there are
 a heck of alot of female captains sitting in the 'big chair' on
 Star ships out there, behind the scenes.

 Kim :)


... ÷×Ð ÎåswÐò ÷ý ÀËßÐ, ÷×Ð öåívÐòsÐ, Ïåd þvÐòØ÷×íåg
--- GEcho 1.00
 * Origin: From Trekkies & from B5ers who hate Trek save us! (1:271/285.0)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 158 of 284
 From : Dave MacLean                        1:259/536       .óá 17 .åâ 96 19:59
 To   : All
 Subj : Sci fi
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
hi everyone i have to things to say 1 is I am part of a club that meets monthly
in downtown Toronto we discuss trek, b5, star wars & xfiles.  we also do things
in the community if think u might want to join our group or want more info.
message me.  my 2nd message is i am process of writing a trivia book on st-tng &
i need help if u want to help or have questions in regard to the book feel free
to message me.  hope to hear from some of u.



--- Maximus 2.01wb
 * Origin: USS Proxima = Toronto, Canada (416)265-3867 (1:259/536)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 159 of 284
 From : Michael Baker                       1:108/430       .óá 17 .åâ 96 16:55
 To   : All
 Subj : Files
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: FastEcho 1.40 8380
The Dead Zone at Has one of the Largest Sci-FI file areas you've ever seen!.
..tons of sound files, gifs, programs, 1960's themes ect. There are a couple
of ways you can get these files:

           1. Call at 513-521-0705 and log on using " Guest " as your
           name/handel...then " Guest " again for the password.
           2. Freq " SF " for a file list of all the SF files, then freq
           the " filename " to receive the files you want.

 we are updating these files weekly and you should call/freq regularly to
 get any updates, and if there is anything you want send me a message and
 I'll look for the file for you.

          The Dead Zone
          1:108/430
          Krall@one.net



... Borger King:  Your way is irrelevant.
--- Blue Wave v2.12
 * Origin: The Dead Zone " Earth2..B5..Startrek..Dr Who.." (1:108/430)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 160 of 284
 From : Mark Jones                          1:105/302.47    .îí 12 .åâ 96 22:11
 To   : The Raven
 Subj : Bred to Conquer
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On (10 Feb 96) The Raven wrote to Mark Jones...

 TR>      Well, to each his own... I have the same exact reaction to a
 TR> bunch of writers, and have been called on it by folks here and
 TR> around more than once. (You should have seen the reaction people
 TR> had to my opinions on Tolkein... you'd have thought I took a dump
 TR> on the Mona Lisa.)

   I know the feeling.  I don't think I could wade through Lord Of The
Rings again, though I really enjoyed it at the time.
   So--who else *do* you dump on?  I'll show you mine....

   Alan Dean Foster, as I already mentioned.  I used to read his
stuff, but I don't any longer.  He lost me when he published
SPELLSINGER and I just never went back.
   C. J. Cherryh.  By all accounts she is popular with both the
critics and the public.  Which probably means that she's a good
writer.  And certainly what I know of her stories *sounds* good.  But
I've tried many times to read some of her stuff and I just can't.  It
feels like hacking my way through the jungle with a machete (it was,
in fact, her writing that led me to that description).
   Stephen R. Donaldson.  I don't read his stuff.  I *never* read his
stuff.  So while it may seem that I'm breaking a cardinal rule--never
review a book you haven't read--plenty of friends have panned his
writing.  And these are friends with tastes I a) know, and b) agree
with; I feel no need to burn myself on that oven just to be *sure* it
will burn me.  [Sadly, these friends all say he writes very well--its
just that his "heroes" are pathetic creatures who invariably lack a
backbone.]


--- PPoint 1.78
 * Origin: Folcroft Sanitarium (hsmith@cure.com) (1:105/302.47)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 161 of 284
 From : Mark Jones                          1:105/302.47    .ÿò 16 .åâ 96 00:15
 To   : Anders Danebo
 Subj : Cybersex
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On (11 Feb 96) Anders Danebo wrote to Bianca Wesslak...

 AD> I belive the SciFi conference is ment to be used for serious
 AD> Science Fiction discussions and one can not get serious when sex
 AD> is involved..If one wants sex (cyber or not) then why not just
 AD> get some..To talk about it is only boring and non
 AD> interesting...THink about it and you will know what i mean..

   The conference is meant for discussion of all facets of SF (unless
they're ruled off-topic by Nicolai), including cybersex.
   One can discuss sex without being a lonely boy, you know.  The
possibility of virtual sex is a perfectly plausible idea, and one that
*does* have a connection to SF.  The film BRAINSTORM (from the 70's),
for instance, played with the notion.
   Discussing it is only boring if you're not interested in how it
might evolve and what the implications of such technology might be.


--- PPoint 1.78
 * Origin: Folcroft Sanitarium (hsmith@cure.com) (1:105/302.47)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 162 of 284
 From : Mark Jones                          1:105/302.47    .ÿò 16 .åâ 96 00:19
 To   : Darre LuAllen
 Subj : Bs!!
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On (12 Feb 96) Darre LuAllen wrote to Mark Jones...

 MJ> Cheap labor? I don't think so....

 MJ> out--no matter how advanced your technology is. If you've got the
 MJ> industrial base to build a fleet of interstellar warships, you
 MJ> can probably build a robotic (or at least highly mechanized)
 MJ> economy. You won't *need* aliens for brute labor.

 DL> True. You would have to assume that their robotics technology has
 DL> kept up with their drive tech. Otherwise,... Of course, it also
 DL> depends upon the moral ethics of the alien race (being alien and
 DL> all that). If they have a hang up with creating what might be
 DL> considered mechanical beings, then grabbing slaves would be
 DL> cheap. I'm not assuming AI's here, just a religious paradox sort
 DL> of like what can be seen here with Genetic Engineering.

I find it hard to believe that aliens could have a taboo against
exploiting robots, but have no problem with enslaving aliens.  On the
other hand, they're aliens, so maybe I'm being egocentric.  I think
the aliens would have to view slave-holding as a virtue in and of
itself (sort of like S. M. Stirling's Draka culture) before going out
and enslaving aliens made any sort of sense.

Fighting over the limited habitable real estate in the galaxy seems
like a more plausible excuse for interstellar raids.


--- PPoint 1.78
 * Origin: Folcroft Sanitarium (hsmith@cure.com) (1:105/302.47)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 163 of 284
 From : Mark Jones                          1:105/302.47    .ÿò 16 .åâ 96 00:27
 To   : Jon Helis
 Subj : X-FILES
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On (03 Feb 96) Jon Helis wrote to Frank Glover...

 JH> She did a segment congratulating "America's Most Wanted" on it's
 JH> 400th capture last weekend.  She said something along the lines
 JH> of '400 captures and not one vampire or alien, come on, get with
 JH> the program.'

"Thanks to phone calls from people like you, over 400 fugitives have
been captured.  Not one alien.  Not one sewer monster.  Not even a
vampire.  GET WITH IT, PEOPLE!"

 JH> I found it rather amusing.

I found it hysterically funny.


--- PPoint 1.78
 * Origin: Folcroft Sanitarium (hsmith@cure.com) (1:105/302.47)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 164 of 284
 From : Mark Jones                          1:105/302.47    .ÿò 16 .åâ 96 00:35
 To   : Nicolai Shapero
 Subj : Independence Day
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On (14 Feb 96) Nicolai Shapero wrote to Mark Jones...

 MJ> see any plausible way we COULD fight back. They've got the high
 MJ> ground, superior technology and have already apparently located
 MJ> our centers of government and annihilated them.
 NS>
 NS> There's some that would argue that, they having destroyed
 NS> Washington D.C., we'd fight all the better...

  Ordinarily, I'd be one of them.  But I'm giving the aliens the
benefit of the doubt.  I'm assuming that by the time they've bothered
to destroy the white house, they'd already have destroyed many--if not
most--of our military installations.  The White House is a token
target, the war room beneath notwithstanding.
   If our military strength vs the aliens is virtually zero, the
generals down there can plot all they want--to no avail.


--- PPoint 1.78
 * Origin: Folcroft Sanitarium (hsmith@cure.com) (1:105/302.47)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 165 of 284
 From : Mark Jones                          1:105/302.47    .ÿò 16 .åâ 96 00:37
 To   : Tommy Kellerman
 Subj : UFO
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On (13 Feb 96) Tommy Kellerman wrote to Chris Ogniben...

 TK> How do you know that UFO's aren't for real? Just because you
 TK> haven't seen one?! They don't do requests! Don't you think it's a
 TK> bit NAIVE to think that there AREN'T any civilisations with a
 TK> higher tech-level than ours, or that there aren't any other at
 TK> all?

   "Some UFOs are actually starships from other worlds" is an
unfalsifiable assertion.  There is no way to disprove it.  No matter
how many UFOs are determined to be weather balloons, swamp gas,
ordinary aircraft or weather phenomena, the proponents of this theory
can always say that others *are* the real thing.
   It's a useless (and unscientific) position.

   On the other hand, the claim that "NO UFOs are actually starships
from other worlds" is easily falsified simply by providing proof of
*one* instance in which such a vessel turns up.  But so far, the
evidence is underwhelming.

   There may or may not be alien civilizations.  They may or may not
be more advanced than we.  And they may or may not be visiting us.
But until we have real, tangible proof of this, I'll continue to
believe that UFOs are adequately explained by mundane occurences.

--- PPoint 1.78
 * Origin: Folcroft Sanitarium (hsmith@cure.com) (1:105/302.47)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 166 of 284
 From : Ecarey                              1:101/230       .åò 15 .åâ 96 08:33
 To   : Aaron Turon
 Subj : HELLO!?
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
AT>Hello! Is anyone out there? Please send me a mesage(don't know if that's
AT>spelled right :)!
AT>Bye!  ;)

No. There's absolutely no one out here, and if we were, we'd all be
refusing to speak to you, just to get you frustrated.:)

It's more productive in the long run to just start posting responses to
messages that are interesting to you.

 * OLX 2.1 TD * Mental Floss prevents Moral Decay.

--- FLAME v1.0
 * Origin: Withouta Net - Drop In Anytime! - 617/846-5416 (1:101/230)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 167 of 284
 From : John Aldrich                        1:362/669       .óá 17 .åâ 96 21:42
 To   : All
 Subj : Hercules / Xena on the Web
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Hello All!

Here's the Web addresses for "Hercules, The Legendary Journeys" and "Xena,
Warrior Princess."
Hercules -- HTTP://WWW.MCA.COM/TV/HERCULES
Xena --     HTTP://WWW.MCA.COM/TV/XENA

Fanmail for Lucy Lawless can be sent to her C/O MCA:
    LUCY LAWLESS
    C/O MCA TV
    100 UNIVERSAL CITY PLAZA, BLDG. 500-8
    UNIVERSAL CITY, CA 91608

Fanmail for Kevin Sorbo can be sent to him at his Fan Club:
    Kevin Sorbo Fan Club
    8033 Sunset Blvd, Suite 920
    Los Angeles, CA 90046.

Also on the web site are movie info as well as info on other series put out by
MCA.
        John
 {dungeon@dngnbbs.com}

... Save water, shower with Kei & Yuri!
--- GoldED/386 2.50+
 * Origin: The Dungeon BBS 28.8/V.34 24-hours 423/875-4137 (1:362/669)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 168 of 284
 From : Marc Zingarelli                     1:226/110       .óá 17 .åâ 96 13:45
 To   : The Raven
 Subj : Highlander
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12  92-0004

TR>"This just in from our Moscow bureau..."

TR> MZ> Ah so that's where you've been hiding<g>.  I found rysher's web page
  > MZ> and noticed that they have an upcoming show schedule.  The last 5 and
  > MZ> the first episode of next season are TBA.  Does this mean we have a 5th
  > MZ> season?

TR>     Looks that way.  The word I am getting is that #5 is definitely the las
  >year, if for no other reason than Adrian Paul is beginning to feel 40, even
  >if he doesn't exactly look it.

Coooool,

At least we get one more.  Don't know how I'll break it to the wife that after
next year she'll only have me<g>.

Later

---
 Lt. Marc Zingarelli
 Local 1232
 Circleville Fire Department


---
 * OLX 1.52 * "Durkin, do you really get laid every night?"  "Oh yeah"



--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12
 * Origin: The Computer Room-Pickerington, Oh (614)861-8377  (1:226/110.0)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 169 of 284
 From : Frank Swarbrick                     1:104/825       .óá 17 .åâ 96 00:28
 To   : Michael Harper
 Subj : Dangerous Babes
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12  92-0022
On 02-12-96  08:09 my Very Good Friend Michael Harper said:

 -=> Tossing back another tequila, Chris Ogniben told Michael Harper about
 MH> Dangerous Babes...

 CO> Well all i have to say, is the guy that married Lucy Lawless must
 CO> be having fun for her to dress up like Xena and make his life seem to
 CO> be the best thing that ever happened in this life.

 MH> I seem to recall reading someplace that Lucy was married and had two
 MH> kids. Her beauty is no big surprise; New Zealand produces some of the
 MH> loveliest women on this planet.

Is she from New Zealand?  I don't think so...  The show is shot there,
sure, but it's an American TV show, and she sure sounds American to
me.  I heard that neither Hercules nor Xena are even aired in New
Zealand.

        Frank

... "Peace -- through superior firepower."
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12
 * Origin: The Bailey Information Exchange BBS, 28.8k v.fc  (1:104/825.0)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 170 of 284
 From : Frank Swarbrick                     1:104/825       .óá 17 .åâ 96 00:31
 To   : Frank Glover
 Subj : Re: SLIDERS/ANY NEWS?
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12  92-0022
On 02-15-96  20:24 my Very Good Friend Frank Glover said:

 JH>   FG> I keep hoping that they'll come back with a special or two and
 JH>  tie
 JH>   FG> up loose ends, like Alien Nation has. But, as you say, it didn't
 JH>  run
 JH>   FG> long enough to get anything like Alien Nation's base of fans.
 JH>
 JH>  Alien Nation only ran for one season, that was enough to build
 JH>  up the fan base.  How long did VR5 run?
 FG>
 FG> Hmm. Eight episodes or so? I think that's pretty close.....

VR.5 aired 10 episodes on FOX, though 13 were filmed.  All 13 were
shown in Europe, or so I've been told.

        Frank

... No one can hear when you're Screaming in Digital!
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12
 * Origin: The Bailey Information Exchange BBS, 28.8k v.fc  (1:104/825.0)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 171 of 284
 From : Barton Paul Levenson                1:129/26        .óá 17 .åâ 96 07:02
 To   : Bill Clements
 Subj : EDUCATION
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Sorry, pal, but I'm not functionally illiterate.  I can read and write and do
well at tests; I type 60 wpm.  You can't use your own definitions for words or
phrases, it just confuses everyone.  "Functionally illiterate" has a formal
definition which I don't meet.

--- Maximus 3.01
 * Origin: SoundingBoard, Pittsburgh PA (1:129/26)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 172 of 284
 From : Barton Paul Levenson                1:129/26        .óá 17 .åâ 96 07:04
 To   : Phill Ash
 Subj : STAR TREK SEXISM
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Plumbum.  It comes from Latin via German.  The English word is lead, but the
abbreviation Pb is used because German scientists compiled the Roman-letter
periodic table after Mendeleev specified it in the 19th century.

--- Maximus 3.01
 * Origin: SoundingBoard, Pittsburgh PA (1:129/26)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 173 of 284
 From : Barton Paul Levenson                1:129/26        .óá 17 .åâ 96 07:05
 To   : Ecarey
 Subj : RE: STAR TREK SEXISM
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Just my pig ignorance again.

--- Maximus 3.01
 * Origin: SoundingBoard, Pittsburgh PA (1:129/26)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 174 of 284
 From : Barton Paul Levenson                1:129/26        .óá 17 .åâ 96 07:23
 To   : Aaron Turon
 Subj : Star Trek
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
"Please talk to me about Star Trek!"

OK.  I very much liked the original series.  I haven't seen much of TNG but
wasn't too impressed with what I did see.  The spinoffs I haven't seen yet.

--- Maximus 3.01
 * Origin: SoundingBoard, Pittsburgh PA (1:129/26)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 175 of 284
 From : Barton Paul Levenson                1:129/26        .óá 17 .åâ 96 07:25
 To   : Anders Danebo
 Subj : Cybersex
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
I think I know what you're trying to say, but I think you're mistaken if you say
sex can't be discussed seriously, under SF or otherwise.  Some interesting
comments on sex and human sexuality have come out of science fiction -- though
usually books and not TV/movies.  Cf LeGuin's "The Left Hand of Darkness" or
Philip Jose Farmer's "The Loverbirds" (very daring when it first came out).  Or
anything by Heinlein after he became obsessed with sex.

--- Maximus 3.01
 * Origin: SoundingBoard, Pittsburgh PA (1:129/26)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 176 of 284
 From : Barton Paul Levenson                1:129/26        .óá 17 .åâ 96 07:27
 To   : Frank Glover
 Subj : Re: Alien threats?
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
My own take on this is that civilizations probably develop in one of two ways --
colonizers, who think their race superior and want to spread through the
Universe, fighting it out with whoever gets in their way, and non-colonizers,
who try to stop the colonizers out of self-defense.  The fact that we haven't
been colonized means the antis hold the upper hand in this galaxy.  The best way
for us to antagonize them would be to take on the colonizer mentality ourselves,
and try to expand.  THAT would bring on a very unpleasant first contact.

--- Maximus 3.01
 * Origin: SoundingBoard, Pittsburgh PA (1:129/26)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 177 of 284
 From : Barton Paul Levenson                1:129/26        .óá 17 .åâ 96 07:29
 To   : Mark Jones
 Subj : Alien threats?
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
They would have already done it.

Look, the Milky Way galaxy is about 10 billion years old.  Probably it's had
intelligent occupants for the last 4-6 billion years.  But studies (mostly
published in Icarus in the '70s) show that even at sublight speeds, the galaxy
would be completely colonized much faster than that.  Therefore, either we're
alone in the galaxy, or the aliens don't colonize.  I rather think the latter is
enforced by other races out of self-defense.  The only way to bring on a
negative first contact would be by trying to expand without permission.

--- Maximus 3.01
 * Origin: SoundingBoard, Pittsburgh PA (1:129/26)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 178 of 284
 From : Barton Paul Levenson                1:129/26        .óá 17 .åâ 96 07:33
 To   : Aaron Turon
 Subj : Hello!?
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Message.

What do you want to talk about?

--- Maximus 3.01
 * Origin: SoundingBoard, Pittsburgh PA (1:129/26)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 179 of 284
 From : Barton Paul Levenson                1:129/26        .óá 17 .åâ 96 07:34
 To   : Hanke Penning
 Subj : New here!
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Guten tag, Hanke.  Welcome aboard.

--- Maximus 3.01
 * Origin: SoundingBoard, Pittsburgh PA (1:129/26)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 180 of 284
 From : John Arnold                         3:632/103       .ÿò 16 .åâ 96 11:39
 To   : Mark Jones
 Subj : Bred to Conquer
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Hi Mark,

>On (05 Feb 96) The Raven wrote to Mark Jones...

 TR>>      Ever read Alan Dean Foster's series, "The Damned"?  Good
 TR>>      books,
 TR>> all based on the premise that humans are *the* ultimate
 TR>> dispensers of whup-ass in the Galaxy.

MJ>   I read the first one.  Actually, I hacked my way through it with a
MJ>machete (or that's how it felt) because the premise was entertaining.
MJ>But the *writing*....
MJ>   I had a phase when I really enjoyed ADF's novels--but not any
MJ>more.

I agree with you there.
But for me it didn't stop there.
I brought the set in hard cover so had to read them.
To me the story idea was good but they were very badly written.
I've got 48 of his books and have read 39 of them and those 3 would
have to be the worst of them.  The timeline through the books didn't
seem to work?  Maybe it was just me but the amount of time the humans
were in the war for seemed to jump up and down depending on where you
were in the story...  I don't know if it was because the aliens were
talking length of time by their own race's years or what but it didn't
work for me.  The only constant seemed to be the lenght of time the war
had been going before the humans got into it.  And I didn't like the
idea that the only way that humans could be happy was to be killing all
the time...

BFN,
    John.

--- Maximus/2 3.00
 * Origin: Decadence BBS (3:632/103)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 181 of 284
 From : Frank Glover                        1:2613/477      .cê 18 .åâ 96 12:38
 To   : Tommy Kellerman
 Subj : BS!!
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

TK>   FG>    We need to clean up our act, it's true. It's also possible to
TK>  be
TK>   FG> *worse* than us.
TK>
TK>  Ever seen the movie "Dune"? The Harkonnens are crueller than any
TK>  humans I've
TK>  seen in fiction, installing "heart plugs" and so on...

   I've seen the movie, but I'm not otherwise familiar with the Dune universe.
However, my understanding is that they *are* descended from Earth humans. And
those implants were done intentionally to one's self, for some reason....

   Frank


--- QuickBBS 2.80 GoldBase (Zeta-1)
 * Origin: The Matrix Data Bank BBS, Rochester, Ny (1:2613/477)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 182 of 284
 From : Frank Glover                        1:2613/477      .cê 18 .åâ 96 12:44
 To   : Tommy Kellerman
 Subj : Re: clarification
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

TK>  Sorry for interrupting but, SF FOLKSONGS ???
TK>
TK>  Tell me all about it! (Can't access it from Sweden)

   Yep! There are aplenty! I don't know how common SF conventions ae in Europe,
but if you have occasion to go to one, there will almost always be an area
and/or panel discussion devoted to filking.

   BTW, `filk' was a misspelling of `folk' that somehow stuck....

   Frank


--- QuickBBS 2.80 GoldBase (Zeta-1)
 * Origin: The Matrix Data Bank BBS, Rochester, Ny (1:2613/477)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 183 of 284
 From : Frank Glover                        1:2613/477      .cê 18 .åâ 96 13:28
 To   : Michael Harper
 Subj : Re: Star Trek Generations
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

MH>   I'll have to watch it again, but if Conrad had lines, you'd know it
MH>  was
MH>   him. He's got an Oklahoma twang that's almost painful to listen to.

   Indeed he does. I still have an audio tape I made as he brought his lunar
module downto the surface on the Apollo 12 mission. Compared to the few-words
Armstrong and Aldrin, he kept an enthusiastic, running commentary all the way
down. Still, the comm officer's lines were short, and one might not notice.

   But I've since been told it was Thomas Kopache. Darned if he doesn't *look*
like Pete though, and we have the precedent of Mae Jemison doing a cameo in a
Next Generation episode as a transporter operator....

   Frank


--- QuickBBS 2.80 GoldBase (Zeta-1)
 * Origin: The Matrix Data Bank BBS, Rochester, Ny (1:2613/477)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 184 of 284
 From : Frank Glover                        1:2613/477      .cê 18 .åâ 96 13:36
 To   : Christian Raven
 Subj : Re: Star Trek
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

CR>  DL>  CR> both psychologically and physically.  this is quite
CR>  DL>  CR> obvious, as (a) there has never been a female president in
CR>  DL>  CR> the leading country of the world, and (b) there has NEVER
CR>  DL>
CR>  DL>  Queen Victoria?  Queen Elizibeth?  Boadicia?  Cleopatra?
CR>  DL>  Catherine the Great?  How many world history classes DID you
CR>  DL>  sleep through.  (assuming I understand your "female president"
CR>  DL>  statement)
CR>
CR>    huh?  time to lay of the drugs, friend.  i do not believe that
CR>  QUEEN Victoria was a president.. nor was QUEEN Elizabeth... and i was
CR>  referring to the United States... where both you and I live... most
CR>  likely the pinnacle of freedom in the world.. the country where (at

   So only a female president of the U.S. would count, and a female (elected or
otherwise) who successfully runs another country doesn't?

   Frank


--- QuickBBS 2.80 GoldBase (Zeta-1)
 * Origin: The Matrix Data Bank BBS, Rochester, Ny (1:2613/477)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 185 of 284
 From : Frank Glover                        1:2613/477      .cê 18 .åâ 96 14:02
 To   : Tommy Kellerman
 Subj : Re: Alien threats?
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

TK>  TK>  Yes, we have the intelligence and the body required to reach out
TK>  into
TK>  TK>  the galaxy, but wouldn't this make us a powerful ally, instead
TK>  of the
TK>  TK>  enemy?
TK>
TK>   FG>   Or a *potential* threat.
TK>
TK>  With OUR technology? Our greatest weapon is the will to live, or
TK>  survive (IMHO).

   Evolution favors a `will to live' in virtually all species, really. But by
potential threat, I mean what we will *eventually* be able to do. ("Commander
Xartech, they already possess thermonuclear weapons, and speculate on wormholes,
tachyons and nanotechnology. We must destroy them before they develop
[technology unknown to us].") This was the premise behind `The Day The Earth
Stood Still,' ("Do what you want at home, but clean up your act before you come
out here, or expect more robots.') and 2001: A Space Odyssey ("These pre-humans
have potential. Let's leave a beacon on their Moon, and by the time they are
able to get there and dig it up, they'll be worth another look.").

TK>   FG>    Their reply may be; "So what?"
TK>
TK>  Well yes, but in that case, why wait?

   And that goes back to:

   A: There's no one out there at all (or *exceedingly* few and far between)

   B: Someone's out there, but we just haven't been found yet.

   C: Someone's out there, knows we're here, but have no hostile intentions, and
no desire to show themselves as yet. (which may or may not have anything to do
with ufo's)

   Someone out there who knew we were here, *with* hostile intentions would
almost certainly have taken some open action by now. (Of course we could get
into ideas about subtle, covert takeovers, but for now I think that's *truly*
crossing the paranoia line.)

TK>   FG> guys.' However, I also never believed the argument that violent,
TK>
TK>   FG> aggressive races will destroy themselves before acheiving
TK>  interstellar
TK>   FG> travel, either.
TK>
TK>  Why not? Civilisations could destroy themselves very easily, like if
TK>  some
TK>  germ (produced) or some weapon would go "haywire".

   But accidents can happen even to non-hostile races. It doesn't even have to
involve weapons. Nanotecnological `gray-goo' scenarios, or the Trek episode
`Miri' where what was meant to be a life-extension experiment got away, causing
very long childhoods, then dropping dead at puberty.

   Against such possibilites, expansion to other worlds (starting withone's own
solar system, then beyond) becomes important so that one's species survives,
even if the homeworld becomes uninhabitable.
   But as you say, I truly do hope and expect that our first contacts will be
peaceful ones.

   Frank

--- QuickBBS 2.80 GoldBase (Zeta-1)
 * Origin: The Matrix Data Bank BBS, Rochester, Ny (1:2613/477)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 186 of 284
 From : Kay Shapero                         1:102/524       .óá 17 .åâ 96 12:10
 To   : Debbie Bickford
 Subj : Virtual Reality
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Feb 16 09:41>, Debbie Bickford (1:203/996) wrote to Kay Shapero:

-> Nope; I've never cared for Hogan's style.  Nothing specific I can poi
-> - it just doesn't seem to grab me particularly.
->
->
-> ... "Concerning taste there can be no argument" said the lady as she
-> kissed the cow.
->
 DB>I'm presuming the above is part of the message and not a tag
 DB>line...B:)

Actually it's both.  Since I do NOT have an automatic tag line poster (and
wouldn't want one), any tagline I happen to post is deliberately inserted there
by me.

--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 187 of 284
 From : Kay Shapero                         1:102/524       .óá 17 .åâ 96 19:51
 To   : Darre LuAllen
 Subj : Re: Star Trek
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Feb 14 09:41>, Darre LuAllen (1:3637/1) wrote to Ecarey:

 DL> arguments are wasted at this point.  You know, SF/F stories are
 DL>littered with people like this.  (Swerve... Crash... Are we back on
 DL>topic yet? 8) )
 DL> Usually, they get eaten by the alien beastie or de-selected by
 DL>the heroes/villians.

 Frankly I suspect this one is a ringer.  I suppose he *could* be for real, but
he sounds like someone playing a role to see how many people he can fool.

And speaking of irritating life forms, I'm most of the way through my reread of
Patricia Wrede's Enchanted Forest books now that they're all collected in one
place, and I find myself noticing how much the wizards remind me of certain
politicians, and wondering what effect a carefully applied bucket of soapy water
with lemon would have on same.  :->

... Argelfraster!

--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 188 of 284
 From : Henry Triplett                      1:106/564       .óá 17 .åâ 96 23:15
 To   : LAWRENCE E DUNLAP
 Subj : weird tv
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 * Reply to msg originally in FIDO-SFF

-=> Quoting Lawrence E Dunlap to Barton Paul Levenson <=-

 LED> In fact, one episode won a Hugo the following year of its airing.
 LED> There wasn't any better quality SF TV showing on American TV that
 LED> year.  That UFO ep was one where the CO of ShADO fought a alien
 LED> humanoid who  came able to operate in Earth's environment.
 LED>
 LED> I forgot the name of ep, or the name the CO character from SHADO

Commander Straker.  Don't remember the name of that episode, though.


... My other computer is a Commodore 64.

___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20 [NR]
--- GEcho 1.00
 * Origin: Eat Flaming Death    Houston Texas    713-447-1927 (1:106/564)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 189 of 284
 From : Bill Clements                       1:18/230        .óá 17 .åâ 96 13:41
 To   : Channon Lang
 Subj : THE GUIDE AND IT'S IN
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On (15 Feb 96) CHANNON LANG wrote to KARMIN ST.JEAN...

 CL> ... Send Monopoly Money to your Favorite TV Evangelist

Such a terrible _WASTE_, you must think Monopoly Money grows on
trees <BG>!

.
--RWC
.
... "Any priest or shaman must be presumed guilty untill proved innocent." --LL

--- PPoint 2.00 / QWK

--- FLAME v1.1
 * Origin: ANCESTRY TBBS Shadows of forgotten ancestors 941-382-9061 (1:18/230)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 190 of 284
 From : Anders Danebo                       2:201/190       .óá 17 .åâ 96 20:48
 To   : ROBERT LIDGREN
 Subj : "Q" on VOYAGER
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

-=> Quoting ROBERT LIDGREN to ALL <=-

 RL> This is it!  The week in which "Q" appears on Star Trek:  Voyager.
 RL> Has anyone head anything at all about the CONTENT of the show?  All
 RL> I've heard is that "Q" is going to appear and, I assume, "Let the fun
 RL> begin!"  He certainly seems to have a secure future as a character in
 RL> the many Star Trek incarnations.  I wonder if he'll also make an
 RL> appearance in the next STTNG movie.  Has anyone heard anything about
 RL> what's up with the new movie?
 RL> I'll be very thankful for any input here.  I feel like I've been
 RL> marooned and "cut off" from the latest news re: these subjects.

A little input and a personal opinion..I can't believe they didn't put
Q in with the GENERATIONS gang...Big mistake(good movie but it should
have had Q in it...)


... Mac screen message: "Like, dude, something went wrong."
--- GEcho 1.00
 * Origin: =:Detroit Rock City:= Stockholm, Sweden  +46-8-870055 (2:201/190)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 191 of 284
 From : Anders Danebo                       2:201/190       .óá 17 .åâ 96 20:54
 To   : Jeroen Jacobs
 Subj : Hello !
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

-=> Quoting Jeroen Jacobs to All <=-

 JJ> And these are my favorite SF-series:

 JJ> - the X files.
 JJ> - Star Trek : Deep Space 9
 JJ> - Star Trek : The Next Generation
 JJ> - Star Trek : Voyager
 JJ> - The Outer Limits

You must be my twin or my twin soul...Exactly my faves..


... DATA COMPRESSION: What You Get When You Squish An Android
--- GEcho 1.00
 * Origin: =:Detroit Rock City:= Stockholm, Sweden  +46-8-870055 (2:201/190)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 192 of 284
 From : Kevin Ahearn                        1:109/104       .cê 18 .åâ 96 21:01
 To   : Kim Wheat
 Subj : Star Trek
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 KW>  Even I might watch this episode on Monday. I've never liked Q, myself.
 KW>  Think the writers made a big mistake with this character. Never, ever
 KW>  have a 'Superman' type character on the show!!! The only way to have
 KW>  interesting plots that don't repeat themselves endlessly is to remove
 KW>  his powers..and then he's no longer Q! And if he keeps his powers,
 KW>  then it's just a rehashed story! Stupid move to have come up with this
 KW>  guy!

Your comments remind me of an old saying about fantasy stories:  "If anything is
possible, nothing is interesting.

 KW>  If Q appears on V'ger...then why isn't the show finished then?? He
 KW>  simply pops them back to Fed space and everyone goes home. This won't
 KW>  happen, of course....but I bet you the reasons this doesn't take place
 KW>  won't be satisfactory. Therefore, once again, it'll prove that this
 KW>  character just doesn't work as a viable plot device.

Actually, there is a real good reason for this.  The scent which would explain
it would proceed something like this:

Janeway:  "Q, will you send us back to Federation space?"

Q:  "No."

Janeway:  "Why not?"

Q:  "I don't feel like it.  See ya."

--Kevin

--- Maximus/2 3.01
 * Origin: ShanErin (1:109/104)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 193 of 284
 From : Oai Luong                           1:109/611       .cê 18 .åâ 96 21:24
 To   : Barton Paul Levenson
 Subj : Re: Star Trek
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 BP>> "Please talk to me about Star Trek!"

       Well I think the expisodes of TNG are the best.  Not because of the
technology that they have but the captain and the crew members.  Well the
TNG movie was a blast watching at my friends house on his 47 in. tv.  Well I
think the whole think that makes us interested in ST is the imagination that
it provides us to have a source to use when it comes to imagination.  See we
my friends and I be built our ouwn ship it was call the explorer ( and please
don't take our ideas ) and we use couple technology such a the warp engines,
but with a little changes we made the engines up to 15 warp.  we try to make
it not so sarcastic and we also put in the cloaking device and not worry
about the plasma thing.  So basically it is the crew and the captain who make
it interesting.

Oai Luong

.NOTE: IceEdit 1.60 E17688
--- QuickBBS 2.80 GoldBase (Zeta-1)
 * Origin: AD Message BBS/10th Year Online! (703)241-1826 (1:109/611@FIDONET)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 194 of 284
 From : Kim Wheat                           1:271/285       .cê 18 .åâ 96 09:02
 To   : Chris Carter
 Subj : Star Trek
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
---<<*<<< Chris dazzled Buc Wheat with these words of wisdom!! >>>**>>----

 KW> (I refuse...simply refuse, to give creedence to "It's was the
 KW> 60's, Kim") <g>

 CC> It was probably the '70s. ;~)

 Naw, Chris, can't be...I *REMEMBER* the 70's! ;)

 Kim :)


... Certe, Toto, sentio nos in Kansate non iam adesse.
--- GEcho 1.00
 * Origin: From Trekkies & from B5ers who hate Trek save us! (1:271/285.0)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 195 of 284
 From : Bianca Wesslak                      1:132/152       .cê 18 .åâ 96 18:51
 To   : Anders Danebo
 Subj : Cybersex
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
From a woman with an overactive imagination.

 AD> I belive the SciFi conference is ment to be used for serious Science
 AD> Fiction discussions and one can not get serious when sex is
 AD> involved..If one wants sex (cyber or not) then why not just get
 AD> some..To talk about it is only boring and non interesting...THink about
 AD> it and you will know what i mean..

And pray tell me just what is serious Science Fiction????????..............
To you what may be serious Sci-Fi, may very well to others be fun and games.
Also to you talking about sex may be boring and uninteresting, that's your
perogative, but to others it may very well be something completely different.
ANd as to your comment no one can get serious when sex is involved, WHy???]



... A female Klingon with PMS? Run for your lives!!!
--- Blue Wave v2.12 [NR]
 * Origin: The Cereal Port BBS (OS/2) Rindge,NH 603-899-3335 (1:132/152)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 196 of 284
 From : John Crawford                       1:221/1050      .åò 15 .åâ 96 17:48
 To   : Hanke Penning
 Subj : New here!
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
        Hey Hanke.  John here.  I LOVE the X-Files, you should watch them.
They're on Friday's at 9:00.  Sorry, I'm not one for Star Trek *or* Babylon 5.
Bye.
                                                                John.


--- Maximus/2 2.02
 * Origin: Five Guys BBS (1:221/1050)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 197 of 284
 From : Nicolai Shapero                     1:102/524       .cê 18 .åâ 96 20:15
 To   : Bill Clements
 Subj : EDUCATION
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Feb 13 22:21>, Bill Clements (1:18/230) wrote to Barton Paul Levenson:

 BC>READ the _SUBJECT_ line of the message header.  The subject is
 BC>_EDUCATION_ which has not been declared off-topic.

This is called "rules lawyering".  The actual subject of the discussion
continued on an "off topic" thread.  Regardless of what someone changed the
subject line to, the CONTENT of the message remained off topic (as was the body
of your message.

If I see anything more from you on this subject (subject line OR content) I am
going to become very annoyed.

-- Nicolai Shapero, Moderator of the SFFAN echo

--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 198 of 284
 From : Nicolai Shapero                     1:102/524       .cê 18 .åâ 96 20:20
 To   : Frank Glover
 Subj : Re: SLIDERS/ANY NEWS?
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
SLIDERS returns on Friday, March 1, 1996.  All new episodes.

It should be interesting.

-- Nicolai Shapero, the Mad Russian Sysop of StormGate Aerie

--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 199 of 284
 From : Nicolai Shapero                     1:102/524       .cê 18 .åâ 96 20:22
 To   : Edward Spindle
 Subj : Legacy of the Ancients- by Electronic Arts
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
This is not the FOR SALE conference, nor is it the COMPUTER GAMING conference.

This is the SFFAN conference, for discussion of science fiction and fandom.

Please stay on topic, or stay off the conference.

Thank you for your cooperation,

-- Nicolai Shapero, Moderator of the SFFAN echo

--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 200 of 284
 From : Nicolai Shapero                     1:102/524       .cê 18 .åâ 96 20:23
 To   : Christian Raven
 Subj : Re: Star Trek
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Feb 13 17:41>, Christian Raven (1:393/7@fido) wrote to Anne Swasey:

 CR>i was saying was, to put it simply, women are PHYSICALLY WEAKER
 CR>than men, women are PSYCHOLOGICALLY less agressive and capable,
 CR>and women are EMOTIONALLY far less stable.  whether or not this
 CR>was due to their past, as you have said, really is not relevant.

Just because you have said it does not make it true, however.

This subject is also wildly off topic at this point, so please do not post
further messages to this thread.

Thank you for your cooperation.

-- Nicolai Shapero, Moderator of the SFFAN echo

--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 201 of 284
 From : Star Hawk                           1:362/708.6     .óá 17 .åâ 96 18:49
 To   : Jeff Hancock
 Subj : B5 -- Coincidence?
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
From my perch I saw this come out of the gravity well from Jeff Hancock: [answer
waay late due to situations out of my control <sigh>]

  [> Star Hawk [> I don't know about story element, but it's not
  [> unlikely.  Roses have been a romantic symbol, the color black a
  [> symbol of dark and/or evil intent; so naturally when the two are
  [> put together you have a ready made of dark/evil romance.

  [> Jeff Hancock [> But are there really black roses, short of
  [> painting or wilting? ;-)

     I believe so, although i'm not sure; man-made, of course.

  [> Star Hawk [> Both B5 and Ranma 1/2 tapped into that background
  [> for different reasons.

  [> Jeff Hancock [> Now I don't remember any good reason for B5 to
  [> have used that particular element for the murderer, but since
  [> it's back on here in a few days, maybe I'll see it this time.
  [>
  [> And the Black Rose killer wasn't anything like Kodachi. ;)

     True, but each was using different elements of the mythos.

  [> Jeff Hancock [> Another anime I ran into had living starships...
  [> but again, not even similiar in detail.

  [> Star Hawk [> Living ships have been part of SF/Fantasy for a long
  [> time, although not common.

  [> Jeff Hancock [> Y'know, I don't think I've run into them very
  [> often either.

  [> Star Hawk [> Again, no surprise...  [The anime wouldn't have been
  [> Tenchi Muyo, would it? <g>]

  [> Jeff Hancock [> No, it was a four-part SF story called MAPS that
  [> I've only seen the first two of so far. The ship seemed metallic,
  [> was umpteen-stories high, and the "brain" was an android in the
  [> form of (of course) an attractive female. When the ship took
  [> damage, so did she with wounds erupting "blood", then healing
  [> within a few minutes or so; although they didn't show the ship
  [> self-repairing in a similiar fashion. The ship also appeared to
  [> get blown in half (or at least two pieces) during the second
  [> episode, but they never showed what happened to the android.

     I've seen it.  The ending of the fourth part sort of leaves one hanging; it
seems that the creator's intention was for a possible continuation of the story.

  [> Jeff Hancock [> The people on the Anime echo seem to enjoy using
  [> the characters from Tenchi Muyo in their messages, but I've yet to
  [> see it since it's not available for rent and the videos were
  [> something like $25 or $30 for a half hour of video. I don't really
  [> know much about it - your mention of living ships in that is the
  [> first I've heard of such - so feel free to describe it and let me
  [> know if it's worth the cost. ;)

     I think so, although it becomes a better value when they started putting
two episodes on a tape/disc [#8-13].  If you like URUSEI YATSURA, RANMA 1/2, and
the like, you'll probably like TENCHI MUYO.  It is one of the most popular
titles in the country.

                                        Star Hawk, the EchoTrickster

--- MacWoof Eval:23Dec93
 * Origin: William Bull Hedrick @ Hawk Haven's Orbital Point (1:362/708.6)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 202 of 284
 From : ROBERT LIDGREN                      1:134/10        .cê 18 .åâ 96 00:41
 To   : NICOLAI SHAPERO
 Subj : CLARIFICATION
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
-> Excuse me please, but Kay is not the moderator, I am.  And what made me
-> decide about it being off topic?  Well, it was off topic to begin with, but
-> I made a comment on it so I thought that other people should have their say
-> also.  That was done.  People had their say, and were beginning to repeat
-> themselves.

Thanks Nicolai!  I really DID get my wires crossed!  Sorry - no offense was
intended.  I had a hunch something of the sort might have been at the root of
the decision.  I would assume that science topics are not necessarily off-topic
providing that one is discussing them in the context of science fiction and the
stories/TV series/movies/books of which science remains the "seed" or catalyst
for the writer's imagination.

Have you been following X-Files at all lately?  What do you think of the
changes in the relationship beyween Scully and Mulder?

I heard a rumour SOMEWHERE that "Sliders" was returning March 1st.  Is there
any truth to this?

Cheers and please extend my apologies to Kay Shapiro as well.

-Rob
--- PCBoard 15.2
 * Origin: 32 lines 40 Gig BBS, Realtime InterNet SLIP (403)299-9900 (1:134/10)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 203 of 284
 From : Jeroen Jacobs                       2:292/506.26    .pä 14 .åâ 96 17:07
 To   : James Walton
 Subj : Star Trek
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: FastEcho 1.45a UNREG
Yow James !! Where the hell are you ??

Vrijdag Februari 09 1996 23:51, James Walton schreef naar Chris Ogniben:

 >> Are you stupid or something?  It's pretty obvious that


 JW> Hey dude, CHILL OUT!


Please...don't begin a fight here. Let's begin with Star Trek's dream about a
peaceful planet first.


Greetings from The Prince of Darkness,

                                        Jeroen

                                   -[PGP_ID=1F7602ED]-


...Political correctness is a Borg plot.

--- GoldED 2.50+ / PGP 2.6.1
 * Origin: co-sysop 80x86 BBS -= 015 24 48 57 =- (2:292/506.26)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 204 of 284
 From : Shawn Snyder                        1:2601/507      .îí 19 .åâ 96 12:50
 To   : Robert Lidgren
 Subj : "Q" on VOYAGER
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
        Rob, I heard that there is a "Q" planning to attempt suicide or
something like that.  Jonothan Frakes is suposed to be in it, also.


--- Maximus 2.02
 * Origin: Radio Sharon  Sharon, PA  (412) 981-3151 (1:2601/507)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 205 of 284
 From : JOHN ROSS                           1:116/1977      .îí 19 .åâ 96 08:20
 To   : Judy Hayes
 Subj : Re: Help
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.SPTH: FidoNet#1:116/1977 :369/110
THATS THE ONE!!!! Love it and all ? of it's rather randy verses.
Are you a local Judy ,or one of our FIDO_NET friends.Let me know.
TTYL

--- AdeptXBBS v1.06(Registered)
 * Origin: The Great Escape! (1-406-254-1977) (1:116/1977)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 206 of 284
 From : Jackson Raster                      1:3637/77       .cê 18 .åâ 96 12:36
 To   : Christian Raven
 Subj : Re: Star Trek
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Psychologically, women are no less capable, thought they may be
incomprehensible to men at times. HoweverPb
, the reverse is also true- they can't understand our motives at times,
either.
-JTR
---
--- WcToss for WildCat!  V1.8 [UnReg]
 * Origin: Coles Kingdom BBS 615-657-5708 14.4KBPS! (1:3637/77)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 207 of 284
 From : Tim Stackpool                       3:712/505       .cê 18 .åâ 96 13:25
 To   : Tommy Kellerman
 Subj : Dalarna Horse
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Tommy,
Yeah, I seem to remember that Cafe Opera was expensive.
Um...you mention that the NTSC format won't look real good to you in
Sweden. That is true since Sweden uses PAL colour encoding. But here in
Australia we also use PAL.
If I come across any later series episodes of V on VHS, I'll be in touch.
Keep warm.
Regards....Tim

--- Maximus/2 2.02
 * Origin: Sydney PC Users Group Mail Exchange (3:712/505)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 208 of 284
 From : Kim Wheat                           1:271/285       .îí 19 .åâ 96 10:33
 To   : Anders Danebo
 Subj : Cybersex
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
---<<*<<< Barton dazzled Buc Wheat with these words of wisdom!! >>>**>>----

 BPL> I think I know what you're trying to say, but I think you're mistaken
 BPL> if you say sex can't be discussed seriously, under SF or otherwise.
 BPL> Some interesting comments on sex and human sexuality have come out of
 BPL> science fiction -- though usually books and not TV/movies.  Cf
 BPL> LeGuin's "The Left Hand of Darkness" or Philip Jose Farmer's "The
 BPL> Loverbirds" (very daring when it first came out).  Or anything by
 BPL> Heinlein after he became obsessed with sex.

 To which you can add:
      Griffith's AMMONITE
      PJF's FLESH
      Varley's STEEL BEACH

 Kim :)


--- GEcho 1.00
 * Origin: From Trekkies & from B5ers who hate Trek save us! (1:271/285.0)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 209 of 284
 From : Chris Baugh                         1:105/290.5     .cê 18 .åâ 96 23:54
 To   : ROBERT LIDGREN
 Subj : X-FILES
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 RL> What a huge change from the season opener when they couldn't
 RL> have been a "tighter" pair unless romance was a result! Now
 RL> the sin wav is certainly at a low ebb.

The sin wav can't ebb to low, or it wouldn't be a family program any
more.

--- PPoint 1.98
 * Origin: - (1:105/290.5)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 210 of 284
 From : Todd Sullivan                       1:202/720.3     .ÿò 16 .åâ 96 22:09
 To   : The Raven
 Subj : Bs!!
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
I was kicking back and telling sea stories until Inspector General The Raven
walked in and said, "Knock off with that Bs!! and get back to work!"  There was
no choice but to shoot The.

 DL>>  Depends upon the Marine.  Most would just snipe him at 500 yds and
 DL>>  be done with it.  I must commend you on your patience.  Personally,
 DL>>  I would be all over him for such comments (although logically, I know
 DL>>  that it would accomplish nothing).

 TR>      Who was it who said "A fair fight is a fight I win"?

Sounds like any of the Heinlein books where Lazarus is featured. :^)

Todd Sullivan

... "Wealth is the parent of luxury and indolence, and poverty of
     meanness and viciousness, and both of discontent." --Plato

-*- ASTG 1.9

--- Spot 1.3a Unregistered
 * Origin: Todd's Spot in the Continuum (1:202/720.3)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 211 of 284
 From : Aaron Turon                         1:137/2         .îí 19 .åâ 96 11:00
 To   : Ecarey
 Subj : Thanx!
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Thanx for the advice ;)


--- Opus-CBCS 1.73a
 * Origin: Chipper Clipper * Scott me up beamy! * 941-745-56 (1:137/2.0)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 212 of 284
 From : Mark Jones                          1:105/302.47    .cê 18 .åâ 96 02:46
 To   : Christian Raven
 Subj : Star Trek
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On (13 Feb 96) Christian Raven wrote to Anne Swasey...

 CR>   what bothers me about the messages i have recieved is that most of
 CR> you are tending to go on and on about subjects which simply do not
 CR> pertain in a signifigant way to the brunt of my message, which, for
 CR> the fifth or sixth time is this: whether or not women have been
 CR> slandered, treated like dogs, not allowed to hunt, raped, pillaged, or
 CR> sacrificed to a higher deity makes no difference when cross-referenced
 CR> with my original thought.  what i was saying was, to put it simply,
 CR> women are PHYSICALLY WEAKER than men, women are PSYCHOLOGICALLY less
 CR> agressive and capable, and women are EMOTIONALLY far less stable.
 CR> whether or not this was due to their past, as you have said, really is
 CR> not relevant.

   No, people have been addressing your point.  They've been providing
evidence that your "thought" (to use the term very loosely) is
completely and utterly and every other way totally preposterous.

   Women are, on average, slightly weaker than men--true.  However, a
physically fit woman is generally stronger than a male couch potato.
   The difference between a 98-lb. weakling and a 250-lb. bodybuilder
(both male) is vastly greater than the difference between a man and
woman of the same weight and level of exercise.

   As for women being less aggressive and capable--are you a brain
surgeon?  How about a professional soldier?  CEO of a major
corporation?  Lots of women are.
   Are you a high-powered attorney-at-law?  Marcia Clark is.
   Are you worth tens or hundreds of millions of dollars, dollars you
earned by your own effort?  Oprah Winfrey is.  So is Madonna.
   When every single man on the planet has exceeded their performance,
your theory might have some validity.  Not until then.

   As for women being less emotionally stable than men...
   How many FEMALE serial killers can you name?  How many times has a
WOMAN climbed into a bell tower and started shooting passers-by?

   I have to wonder about *your* emotional stability and capability,
if you have to console yourself with the thought that no matter how
unstable and inadequate you feel, at least women are even more so.

--- PPoint 1.78
 * Origin: Folcroft Sanitarium (hsmith@cure.com) (1:105/302.47)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 213 of 284
 From : Channon Lang                        1:130/809       .òp 20 .åâ 96 02:50
 To   : Bill Clements
 Subj : Re: THE GUIDE AND IT'S IN
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE 1.11+
From a dark bottomless pit,Bill Clements screamed up to Channon Lang about
 THE GUIDE AND IT'S IN..

 CL> ... Send Monopoly Money to your Favorite TV Evangelist
 BC>
 BC> Such a terrible _WASTE_, you must think Monopoly Money grows on
 BC> trees <BG>!

 Just call me wantonly frivolus, I guess. <:)

 Channon


... Honk if you haven't slept with Commander Riker.
--- MachoEcho 0.5ñ
 * Origin: The State of Confusion * Arlington Tx * 817-274-1920 * (1:130/809)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 214 of 284
 From : Nicolai Shapero                     1:102/524       .îí 19 .åâ 96 08:35
 To   : Barton Paul Levenson
 Subj : Alien threats?
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Feb 17 07:29>, Barton Paul Levenson (1:129/26) wrote to Mark Jones:

 BP>Therefore, either we're alone
 BP>in the galaxy, or the aliens don't colonize.

Or they don't colonize worlds with intelligent life forms already present, or
they CAN'T colonize a system where the local lifeforms haven't exploded outward
into interstellar space already...(see David Brin's collection, RIVER OF TIME
for a possible explanation of that variety...)

-- Nicolai Shapero, the Mad Russian Sysop of StormGate Aerie

--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 215 of 284
 From : Kay Shapero                         1:102/524       .îí 19 .åâ 96 16:58
 To   : JOHN ROSS
 Subj : Help
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Feb 16 18:55>, JOHN ROSS (1:116/1977@fidonet) wrote to KAY SHAPERO:

 JR>Kay ,I heard a song at a con once called ,Banned From Argo,but
 JR>have been
 JR>unable to find a local source.Do you perchance have the lyrics?or

That I do.  Check your mailbox.  (and if it hasn't turned up within a week or
two, tell me and I'll post it here, being as Leslie's given permission to post
her stuff to the net.)

--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 216 of 284
 From : Kay Shapero                         1:102/524       .îí 19 .åâ 96 16:59
 To   : Judy Hayes
 Subj : Re: Help
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Feb 17 15:58>, Judy Hayes (1:154/40) wrote to JOHN ROSS:

 JR> Kay ,I heard a song at a con once called ,Banned From Argo,but have
 JR> been unable to find a local source.Do you perchance have the lyrics?or
 JR> if not where I could get them.


 JH>"Banned from Argos, every one.
 JH>  Banned from Argos, just for having a little fun."

 JH>That one?

"Argo", not "Argos", but that's the only one I know.  I netmailed him a copy
recently - want to see the one I have and compare notes?

--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 217 of 284
 From : Kay Shapero                         1:102/524       .îí 19 .åâ 96 17:00
 To   : Tommy Kellerman
 Subj : clarification
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Feb 16 23:16>, Tommy Kellerman (2:205/356) wrote to Kay Shapero:

 TK>Sorry for interrupting but, SF FOLKSONGS ???

 TK>Tell me all about it! (Can't access it from Sweden)

That depends - if you have internet access you can get it as alt.music.filk.
(And for that matter I've made it clear for years that if anybody wants to gate
it to another FIDO zone they've my permission to do so, so for all I know it may
be in zone 2 now, and just nobody's posting.)

Anyway, here's the "what is filk" part of the FAQ.

What is this stuff called filk?  My own favorite definition is simply
"the folk music of the science fiction/fantasy fan community."
For a more detailed description, see below:

WHAT THE HECK IS FILK MUSIC?

by Nick Smith (of LA Filkharmonics)

Well, it's sort of like folk music.  It is a mixture of song parodies
and original music, humorous and serious, about subjects like science
fiction, fantasy, computers, cats, politics, the space program, books,
movies, TV shows, love, war, death. . .

Filk music started off forty or fifty years ago, at science fiction
conventions, where people got together late at night to have good
old-fashioned folk music song circles.  Well, late night circles being
what they are, some folks got a little silly and started singing song
parodies about their favorite SF books and authors.  Fans started
writing song parodies about themselves or each other.  Some started
composing serious songs about favorite topics.  Some authors started
composing original songs for their books.  If the author didn't list a
tune, fans made up one.  Sometimes two.  Sometimes several.

Eventually, Filk songs wre written for just about every major science
fiction or fantasy work.  Some of them were actually good enough that
people wanted to learn them, or just listen to them more than just at
conventions.  At that point, song books and recordings started being
made.
 Over the last decade, Filk Music has reached the point where there
are entire Filk Music gatherings, conventions, recording companies,
and publications.  Filk Music includes song parodies, original songs,
and slightly musical poetry.  It's a fun way to indulge in a little
musical creativity, especially if you are a science fiction or fantasy
fan as well as musically inclined.  If you are only a fan, but not
musical, you can still listen.  Filk circles aren't pushy about
requiring you to play or sing.  If you are only musical, but not a
fan, no one will hold it against you.  Remember, we're in this thing
for fun!

[Written for flyer for distribution at California Traditional Music
Society Annual Summer Solstice Dulcimer Festival and other local Los
Angeles folk music events and stores.]

What Nick didn't tell you is that the name started out as a typo of
"folk"
and was gleefully adopted by all and sundry as a term for what is
after
all a somewhat unusual subset.

Kay Shapero, Moderator/Designated Topic Cop, FILK echo

--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie: Home of the FILK echo (1:102/524)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 218 of 284
 From : Darre LuAllen                       1:3637/1        .îí 19 .åâ 96 11:21
 To   : Christian Raven
 Subj : Re: Star Trek
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 On 02-13-96 Christian Raven wrote to Darre Luallen...

 >>>>>>> PART I <<<<<<<

 Let me begin by letting you know how much of an arrogant fool you truly are.
 I do not pretend that my opinions are correct and totally factual.  Nor
 do I say that you do not have the right to your own opinions.  However, you
 are not even beginning to look at the facts.  You wish to debate, then be
 prepared to provide FACTS to support your statements.  You can not call on
 history to support YOUR statements then dismiss it when I use it to support
 mine.  You are just proving to everyone here how closeminded you really are.
 So, I now return to rebut your arguments.

 CR> different species than man.  however, they ARE
 CR> intrinsically and generally different in many, many ways,
 CR> both psychologically and physically.  this is quite
 CR> obvious, as (a) there has never been a female president in
 CR> the leading country of the world, and (b) there has NEVER

 DL>  Queen Victoria?  Queen Elizibeth?  Boadicia?  Cleopatra?
 DL>  Catherine the Great?  How many world history classes DID you
 DL>  sleep through.  (assuming I understand your "female president"
 DL>  statement)

 CR>   huh?  time to lay of the drugs, friend.  i do not believe

 My recreational habits are my business, and I'll thank you not to
 speculate upon them.

 CR> that QUEEN Victoria was a president.. nor was QUEEN
 CR> Elizabeth... and i was referring to the United States...
 CR> where both you and I live... most likely the pinnacle of
 CR> freedom in the world.. the country where (at least at one
 CR> time, when feminism was seen for the angry outcry that it
 CR> is) people have had the ability to create what they can of
 CR> what they are.

 No, in fact she was a world leader who wielded REAL power, unlike the
 castrated office of President of the US.  The reason the US has never had
 a world leader is fairly complicated, but mostly harkens back to our
 Puritan origins.  This nation was founded by people who felt, as you seem
 to, that their opinion was the correct one (the Puritans) and that GOD
 would damn everyone else.  Oh, and if you think that we are free here in
 the US, open your eyes (but this is another subject).  What exactly do you
 mean by your last statement above?  Your are trying to imply something, but
 I want your words plan, so that we have no misunderstandings.

 CR> been a female weight-lifter even NEARLY as strong as a
 CR> male.  women are physically weaker, and mentally less
 CR> rational, the latter which could be obviously argued to a

 DL> Do you think that fighting someone to the death just because he
 DL> insulted you is very rational?  Or perhaps the rounding up of fellow

 CR> yes. at the time when this occurred, it was very rational. if you were
 CR> to show to others that you were woman-like (i.e. run to the
 CR> corner and cry) then you were of no use to the society.  do
 CR> you think that worrying about make-up is very rational?
 CR> and please, don't come back with a "well, there are some
 CR> women who do not wear makeup" because this is quite
 CR> obvious.  on a similar line, there are some men who
 CR> naturally are born with breasts.  obviously, in an issue
 CR> like this, we must speak *generally*.  please keep this in
 CR> mind.

 I didn't ask for how they felt.  I asked if YOU thought it was rational.
 Hitler and the Germans of 1933-1945 felt it rational to destroy an entire
 ethnic group.  Does that make it okay by our standards?  Do you agree with
 it because they thought it was okay?  (No need to answer.  This is an
 extreme example given so that you will understand my point.)

 Men have always preformed irrational actions.  Case in point, head butting.
 The part of the body that is the most sensitive to damage is the brain.  It
 controls the body, keeps you alive.  Any damage to the brain is permenant.
 Brain tissue regenerates so slowly that your lifespan would be up before
 you healed.  Yet, men take chances with so delicate an organ?  Two football
 players get excited and begin to smash heads.  Yes, the helmets provide some
 protection, as does the skull.  Yet, here they still are taking a chance.
 And for what?  A male bonding ritual.  Rational?

 In the same time period you are discussing, MEN wore make-up and wigs.
 They dressed in silken clothing and carried perfumed handkerchiefs up
 their sleeves so that they could very daintily dab their faces.  Before
 you say anything about this, I'll warn you that this is my speciality.
 I'm a writer and I write swashbuckler fiction.  I've studied the time
 period.

                                             Darre LuAllen

___
 * OFFLINE 1.56 * "That's entertainment." - Vlad the Impaler.

--- Maximus/2 3.01
 * Origin: Cumberland BBS TN 615/526-3347 V34 (1:3637/1)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 219 of 284
 From : Darre LuAllen                       1:3637/1        .îí 19 .åâ 96 11:22
 To   : Christian Raven
 Subj : Star Trek Sexism
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 On 02-13-96 Christian Raven wrote to Darre Luallen...

 >>>>>> PART II <<<<<<

 CR> yes, *some* women in *some* societies have been burdened
 CR> with *some* of the male's responsibilities, but not many...
 CR> for instance, women, whether african, or indian, or many
 CR> other cultures, were never taught to hunt.  some cultures
 CR> even PROHIBITED women from hunting, for fear that their
 CR> fragility might be threatened.

 DL> "fragility" - I'm not a woman, so I cannot speak from experience (nor do
 DL>  I want to be able to).  However, have you even considered the pain and
 DL>  suffering encountered due to childbirth?  I've had nasty injuries, but

 CR>   no, i have not considered this.  nor do i particularly
 CR> care.  the vagina is an organ which was meant for 3 basic
 CR> purposes: a) release of urine, b) fertilization, and c)
 CR> childbirth.  although i would not personally like to have a
 CR> baby, i find this irrelevant to the conversation.

             ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
 Gee, this evidence is irrifutable, so therefore I will ignore it.  Good job.
 Are you a televangelist or a politician.  You state the woman is more
 fragile, yet here is an example of something that a majority of women
 most endure in order for the species to survive.  So, you cannot ignore it.
 Also, if we men are so tough, then why do women live longer.  Don't say
 because we do all the work.  Scientist have proven that men's brains
 deteriorate three times faster than women's.  So, who's the fragile one.

 DL>  smaller bodily openings.  Frankly, I don't think that I could take it.
 DL>  And if you think that you could do it and keep smiling, then you're a
 DL>  superhuman mutant or a fool.

 CR>   whatever.  i made no refreneces to the fact that i could
 CR> have a baby and smile simultaniously.

 Yet, but stating that men are "better" physically, you imply that you can
 preform ANY physical action that a woman could do and do it better.  Let's
 forget that you aren't wired for childbirth.  Do you think that you could
 do it better than a woman?  If not, then men are not necessarily better,
 just different.

 DL> Most of the cultures you elude to have a strict policy of keeping the
 DL> people necessary to creating the future food gathers out of the path of
 DL> wild animals.  Stop to think what would happen to a village if all the
 DL> women were killed off because some stupid hunter caused the animal to
 DL> women were killed off

 CR> ahh!  you have finally caught my drift (well part of it anyway). yes,
 CR> you are absolutely right.  but you just put your foot in your
 CR> mouth by agreeing with me and therefore contradicting
 CR> yourself... as i had said, WOMEN WERE NOT ALLOWED TO HUNT.
 CR> "why" is not something which pertains to anything i have
 CR> said.

 Here is where your arrogance shows itself.  I know exactly where my foot is.
 And it is no where near my mouth.  Besides, you've used the phrase
 incorrectly.  So, let me begin.  You state that women are weaker, thus
 they are not allowed to hunt.  I reply that no, in fact women are not
 allowed to hunt because they bear the children and gather the non-meat food.
 Now, you state that I agree with you and the reasons why are not important.
 Hum... I think you are practicing a little revisionist history.  The reason
 IS important, since it is the SUBJECT of the debate.  I'm sorry if I'm not
 able to support your bold generalizations, but do not dismiss the arguments
 just because you can't support your point.

 As someone else on this echo has pointed out, the work of gathering the
 so important veggies and fruits is just as hard and dangerous as hunting.
 A group of women, unarmed, go out in the morning to find the very thing that
 the large animals also seek.  And where large herbavores are, large
 predators are also.  Danger!!!  Hauling around a basket filled with enough
 food to feed a family is also hard work.  And with each day coming and
 going, the search for food must cover a larger area.  Therefore, the walk
 with the full basket becomes harder.

 These are my opinions, supported with as much evidence as possible.  If you
 still insist upon your view, then you are welcome to it.  I've just stated
 my side.

                                             Darre LuAllen




___
 * OFFLINE 1.56 * Ring, Ring! Pick up the Clue Phone!


--- Maximus/2 3.01
 * Origin: Cumberland BBS TN 615/526-3347 V34 (1:3637/1)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 220 of 284
 From : Darre LuAllen                       1:3637/1        .îí 19 .åâ 96 11:34
 To   : The Raven
 Subj : Excuse Me?
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 On 02-12-96 The Raven wrote to Darre LuAllen...

 Howdy, Jack.  Nice to see you again.

 TR>  "This just in from our Moscow bureau..."

 Shesh.  No one's s'pose to know...

 DL> I can think of three reasons, all bad: 1) Cheap (read slave)
 DL> labor, 2) free land (like they couldn't find a better planet),
 DL> and 3) food (remember the original "V" TV movies?)

 TR> Somehow I don't think so.  Interstellar travel would be such a major
 TR> undertaking that any society that could accomplish it wouldn't *need*
 TR> cheap labor.  Robots would be much less expensive than building an
 TR> interstellar ship, making the decades-long journey, and then fighting it
 TR> out with the natives on the other end, then shipping either the natives
 TR> (if you decide to ship them home) or the products you are using them as
 TR> labor for (if you decide to set up production facilities there...) home.

 Technologically speaking, you are correct.  However, psychologically
 speaking, they might have reservations to creating mechanical servants.
 We humans have some strange notions that don't hold up to logic.  For
 instance, a man can get married, vote for a world leader, drive a car and
 join the military to go off to kill and die by the age eighteen.  And
 after doing all of that, he can't have one stinking screwdriver to relax
 with.  Hmm... not logical, but to someone it makes sense.  Also take
 into consideration all the ethical questions genetic engineering is
 causing.

 TR> As for land, there's lots of it here in the solar system that you don't
 TR> need to fight us over... the Moon comes to mind, as do the asteroids,
 TR> Mars, Europa, Titan, and half a dozen other planets/moons/asteroids/and
 TR> other big rocks.

 If they just need land.  Perhaps they like trees.  Maybe they like the
 Earth because they want to build summer homes.  Again, psychology.  They
 are alien, after all.  We have no way of knowing what they would be
 interested in.

 TR> And food?  Considering the chance that we are biologically compatible
 TR> with anything that shows up out of the sky are so remote...

 Maybe, maybe not.  The odds are incalculatable since we don't know anything
 about our potential invaders.

                                         At your Service,
                                         Darre LuAllen
                                         Rogue without a Clue
___
 * OFFLINE 1.56 * How come wrong numbers are never busy?


--- Maximus/2 3.01
 * Origin: Cumberland BBS TN 615/526-3347 V34 (1:3637/1)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 221 of 284
 From : Darre LuAllen                       1:3637/1        .îí 19 .åâ 96 11:51
 To   : Mark Jones
 Subj : Bs!!
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 On 02-16-96 Mark Jones wrote to Darre LuAllen...

 MJ> Cheap labor? I don't think so....

 MJ> out--no matter how advanced your technology is. If you've got the
 MJ> industrial base to build a fleet of interstellar warships, you
 MJ> can probably build a robotic (or at least highly mechanized)
 MJ> economy. You won't *need* aliens for brute labor.

 DL> True. You would have to assume that their robotics technology has
 DL> kept up with their drive tech. Otherwise,... Of course, it also
 DL> depends upon the moral ethics of the alien race (being alien and
 DL> all that). If they have a hang up with creating what might be
 DL> considered mechanical beings, then grabbing slaves would be
 DL> cheap. I'm not assuming AI's here, just a religious paradox sort
 DL> of like what can be seen here with Genetic Engineering.

 MJ> I find it hard to believe that aliens could have a taboo against
 MJ> exploiting robots, but have no problem with enslaving aliens.  On the
 MJ> other hand, they're aliens, so maybe I'm being egocentric.  I think
 MJ> the aliens would have to view slave-holding as a virtue in and of
 MJ> itself (sort of like S. M. Stirling's Draka culture) before going out
 MJ> and enslaving aliens made any sort of sense.

 For centuries, humans had problems enslaving their own tribes, clans,
 nationalities, races, etc., but would sell the guy in the next village
 for a few coins.  The Church supported Knightly Orders sold children
 as slaves to the Turks in the Middle Ages.  Double standards may not
 be solely a human trait.

 MJ> Fighting over the limited habitable real estate in the galaxy seems
 MJ> like a more plausible excuse for interstellar raids.

 Here I agree completely with you.  We really don't know what the
 interstellar climate is like, so we might even be overlooking some other
 factors for invasion.  Suppose an alien race decides to "protect us" from
 a more aggressive race.  Wouldn't a sudden appearance of an alien force
 wanting to occupy the Earth be an considered an invasion?

                                              At your Service,
                                              Darre LuAllen
                                              Defender of the Realm
___
 * OFFLINE 1.56 * I've got a cunning plan!

--- Maximus/2 3.01
 * Origin: Cumberland BBS TN 615/526-3347 V34 (1:3637/1)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 222 of 284
 From : Darre LuAllen                       1:3637/1        .îí 19 .åâ 96 12:01
 To   : Kay Shapero
 Subj : Re: Star Trek
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 On 02-17-96 Kay Shapero wrote to Darre LuAllen...

 From message originally to Ecarey:

 DL> arguments are wasted at this point.  You know, SF/F stories are
 DL> littered with people like this.  (Swerve... Crash... Are we back on
 DL> topic yet? 8) )

 DL> Usually, they get eaten by the alien beastie or de-selected by
 DL> the heroes/villians.

 KS>  Frankly I suspect this one is a ringer.  I suppose he
 KS> *could* be for real, but he sounds like someone playing a
 KS> role to see how many people he can fool.

 Perhaps.  I do know that arrogance like his really gets my dander up.
 Oh, well.  I've stated by points as intelligently as possible.  I hope
 I've not misrepresented myself or the facts.  I also hope the subject is
 over.  The debate is approaching serious "off-topic" territory.

 KS> And speaking of irritating life forms, I'm most of the way
 KS> through my reread of Patricia Wrede's Enchanted Forest
 KS> books now that they're all collected in one place, and I
 KS> find myself noticing how much the wizards remind me of
 KS> certain politicians, and wondering what effect a carefully
 KS> applied bucket of soapy water with lemon would have on
 KS> same.  :->

 How about a recommendation on these?  I'm looking for some good books
 to read as soon as I'm finished with my Comparitive Lit class
 (Pop Culture: SF/F).  Right now, I'm suppose to be reading _Dune_, but
 I'm holding off on it.  I've read it before, so I'll just review it
 before the test.  As for the politicians, you can't help them with soap
 only.  Most of the problem is probably genetic.  I really hope scientists
 can isolate the Politician gene soon, so we can prevent this birth defect.

                                            At your Service,
                                            Darre LuAllen
                                            Struggling to stay on topic

 P.S. - If Nicolai decides to make the sexism thing off-topic, I'll go
 quietly (and perhaps happily).

___
 * OFFLINE 1.56 * Imagination is intelligence having fun.


--- Maximus/2 3.01
 * Origin: Cumberland BBS TN 615/526-3347 V34 (1:3637/1)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 223 of 284
 From : Frank Glover                        1:2613/477      .îí 19 .åâ 96 22:11
 To   : Barton Paul Levenson
 Subj : Re: Cybersex
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

BP>  Loverbirds" (very daring when it first came out).  Or anything by
BP>  Heinlein after he became obsessed with sex.

   Starting around `Stranger In A Strange Land,' eh?

   Frank


--- QuickBBS 2.80 GoldBase (Zeta-1)
 * Origin: The Matrix Data Bank BBS, Rochester, Ny (1:2613/477)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 224 of 284
 From : Frank Glover                        1:2613/477      .îí 19 .åâ 96 22:28
 To   : Barton Paul Levenson
 Subj : Re: Alien threats?
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

BP>  They would have already done it.
BP>
BP>  Look, the Milky Way galaxy is about 10 billion years old.  Probably
BP>  it's had intelligent occupants for the last 4-6 billion years.  But
BP>  studies (mostly published in Icarus in the '70s) show that even at
BP>  sublight speeds, the galaxy would be completely colonized much faster
BP>  than that.  Therefore, either we're alone in the galaxy, or the

   A possibility. This is known as the Fermi Paradox,and I admit I don't have a
good answer to it, either. If FTL is possible, it's even harder to explain.
David Brin has argued for the possibility of predatory (for whatever reason)
races, and I'm willing to entertain,but not swear to this one.

   Also, in a galaxy and Universe of finite age, maybe life arises more slowly
than we think. Perhaps it will be full of sentients one day, but *somebody* had
to be the first...maybe we're among the first. (Mind you, I'm not comfortable
with this idea, even if true. It's a heavy responsibility to think *we* might
end up being the wise, old, mysterious race that others will one day look for/up
to.)


BP>  than that.  Therefore, either we're alone in the galaxy, or the
BP>  aliens don't colonize.  I rather think the latter is enforced by
BP>  other races out of self-defense.  The only way to bring on a negative
BP>  first contact would be by trying to expand without permission.

   But how do you enforce non-expansion by others by staying home yourself? How
would one get permission without meeting? (If `asking permission' is even in
your nature or social, political, religious or other belief system?)

   Frank


--- QuickBBS 2.80 GoldBase (Zeta-1)
 * Origin: The Matrix Data Bank BBS, Rochester, Ny (1:2613/477)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 225 of 284
 From : Jaimie Park                         1:3666/603      .åò 15 .åâ 96 18:30
 To   : All
 Subj : x-files
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12  93-0191
hello, this is jaimie park and i'm calling out to all those x-philes
across the country.  i'm dying for some stimulating conversation about
the show with someone who actually knows what they're talking about.
please contact me.

--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12
 * Origin: High Tech Center BBS 21.6K USR/DST  (1:3666/603.0)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 226 of 284
 From : Bill Clements                       1:18/230        .îí 19 .åâ 96 15:19
 To   : Judy Hayes
 Subj : EDUCATION
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On (14 Feb 96) JUDY HAYES wrote to PHILL ASH...

 JH> Well, I must say that *you* have much more faith in me than
 JH> I do.  My daughter is only in 4th grade and she's already
 JH> losing me at some points.  Plus, she's been dianosted as
 JH> possibly have ADD....I'm not sure I would have the patience
 JH> to teach her if she *was* paying attention. I do know my
 JH> limitations and am aware of how much it would take.

If your daughter has been diagnosed as having Attention Deficit
Disorder the _ONLY_ way she is likely to be educated is through
your efforts.  The "Professional Educators", I use the term under
advisedment, will place her in a "Special" program where she will
get a "Special Diploma" or a Certificate of Attendance rather
than graduate from high school.  She then can attempt to get a
General Equivalency Diploma before applying for a job, or work at
menial labor for the rest of her life.  It is possible that she
may qualify to work in a Sheltered Workshop and live in a group
home, sponsored by the Association for Retarded Citizens, if you
are not able to support her as an adult.  Private, or Home,
Education can probably save your child's future.  Public
Education leaves her no future at all!

I am truly sorry for having to tell you this but I have seen this
happen.  I wish you and your children the best.

To remain on topic I suggest that you read 'THE HAPPY DAYS AHEAD'
in 'EXPANDED UNIVERSE' (C)opyright 1980 by Robert A. Heinlein.

--RWC

"It's amazing how much 'mature wisdom' resembles being too tired." --LL

--- PPoint 2.00 / QWK

--- FLAME v1.1
 * Origin: ANCESTRY TBBS Shadows of forgotten ancestors 941-382-9061 (1:18/230)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 227 of 284
 From : Judy Hayes                          1:154/40        .òp 20 .åâ 96 03:02
 To   : JOHN ROSS
 Subj : Re: Help
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

-> "Who me? I'm just plain & simple." said JOHN.

 JR> THATS THE ONE!!!! Love it and all ? of it's rather randy verses.
 JR> Are you a local Judy ,or one of our FIDO_NET friends.Let me know.
 JR> TTYL

Hmmmmmm.....you didn't quote my message but I'll take a guess that you are
the gentleman that was looking for the lyrics to "Banned from Argos". <g>

I'm a local....just not local to you. <BG>  I'm in Wisconsin.

I'll now begin trying to track down the lyrics for you....I have a friend
who has mounds of Filk songbooks.  Surely she *must* have that one in there
somewhere.  I'll give her a call this week and then you can either Netmail
me an address to mail it to or I can type it in and NetMail it to you....
whichever seems more equitable.

However,  PLEASE, post your request to me again around...say, Friday, 3/1,
and I'll give you an update on whether I found it or not.  If you don't
repost to me I'm sure to forget who it was that asked for it....My mind is
not what it once was.  I tell people that I gave 1/2 of my brain cells to
my children.  Since I had 2 children that means I now have no brain cells
left for myself. <g>

      --Quoshara




... I'm OLD....What's your excuse?
---
 * Origin: Anonymous BBS -=- Non plus Ultra -=- 414-251-2580 (1:154/40)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 228 of 284
 From : Pavel Viaznikov                     2:5020/185.9    .cê 18 .åâ 96 15:55
 To   : Tommy Kellerman
 Subj : Ufo
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.RFC-Path:
apex!f200.n464!f400.n5020!f35.n5020!f144.n5020!f269.n5020!f185.n5020!not-for-mai
l
Ïpèâåòñòâóþ, Tommy!

Monday February 05 1996 20:41, Tommy Kellerman wrote to David Johnston:

 DJ> ->> Tonight, about 6 P.M. CMT (Central Meridian Time) I was on my way
 DJ> ->> home from the bus-station when I noticed a strange-looking "star"
 DJ> ->> in the curtain of night. No clouds were about, and no moon
 DJ> ->> shone. Imagine a bright star, like Venus, and triple the
 DJ> ->> brightness.

 TK> I saw it in Furudal (transl. "Pine Valley"), a small town in the middle
 TK> region of Sweden, and I guess you're right about it looking like a
 TK> star. You can't estimate the distance to a star, and maybe not to this
 TK> either, but it was much more closer than a satellite or a star, and it

 - Under proper weather conditions still could be a big satellite...

 TK> kept on dropping these shooting stars on the ground, so I can't accept TK>
 TK> idea of it being a reflection, nor diffraction. And if it was
 TK> a reflection, how come I wasn't the only witness?

 - No offence meant please... but in such cases I usually ask, how far from the
nearest pub the witnesses were?.. ;)
   Joking aside, such effects can be also produced by:
   - Most probably, a big bolide shedding down pieces of itself;
   - Ball lighting (being actually lower than you presumed);
   - Launch of a rocket (and reflections etc. do weiriest things to them! I
personnally managed to see a quite similar "UFO" about 350 km from Plisetsk, a
Russian space center);
   - An interesting kind of a firework;
   - A UFO camouflaged as any of the above ;))

 TK> About diffraction, we have
 TK> these beautiful colors appearing some nights on the sky (Sorry, don't seem
 TK> to recall what it's called in English) that the Swedes call "Northern
 TK> shine".

- Aurora Borealis is the scientific term, and the "Northern Lights" are quite
good in English (AFAIK).

 TK> But whatever I saw, I know that I've never seen anything like
 TK> this...

- So you're lucky; whatever it was, it must be a rare thing!

                                                      Yours, Pavel

--- ifmail v.2.8
 * Origin: God bless you, merry gentlemen! (2:5020/185.9)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 229 of 284
 From : Pavel Viaznikov                     2:5020/185.9    .cê 18 .åâ 96 15:57
 To   : Tommy Kellerman
 Subj : X-FILES
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.RFC-Path:
apex!f200.n464!f400.n5020!f35.n5020!f144.n5020!f269.n5020!f185.n5020!not-for-mai
l
Ïpèâåòñòâóþ, Tommy!

Monday February 05 1996 23:10, Tommy Kellerman wrote to Owen E. Oulton:

 FS>> syzygy: a pair of things, eps. a pair of opposites
 TK> How do you pronounce this word?

- See-zee-gee, all "ee"s short and the 1st syllable stressed, says my
dictionary. ("Gee" as the letter G's name, not like in "geese").

                                           Yours, Pavel.

--- ifmail v.2.8
 * Origin: God bless you, merry gentlemen! (2:5020/185.9)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 230 of 284
 From : Steven Sullivan                     1:289/34        .óá 17 .åâ 96 12:52
 To   : Chris Ogniben
 Subj : BS!!
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
CO>  But, i know that if
CO>you take our race and put it up with other life forms of race that
CO>exist out there, i can assure you that the human race is crap

CO>And that is why being a human, is just saying to the universe of space,
CO>i am crap, but, i am alive and have to live with it.

Please don't have children.  Thanks.

ape

--- FLAME v1.1
 * Origin: Holy Bytes, it's The Batboard TBBS - (314) 446-0475 (1:289/34)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 231 of 284
 From : Steven Sullivan                     1:289/34        .îí 19 .åâ 96 07:13
 To   : Chris Ogniben
 Subj : BS!!
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
CO>  But, i know that if
CO>you take our race and put it up with other life forms of race that
CO>exist out there, i can assure you that the human race is crap

CO>And that is why being a human, is just saying to the universe of space,
CO>i am crap, but, i am alive and have to live with it.

Please don't have children.  Thanks.

ape

--- FLAME v1.1
 * Origin: Holy Bytes, it's The Batboard TBBS - (314) 446-0475 (1:289/34)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 232 of 284
 From : Jon Helis                           1:3800/25       .óá 03 .åâ 96 22:33
 To   : Frank Glover
 Subj : Re: Star Trek Generations
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 -=> Quoting Frank Glover to Chris Carter <=-

 FG> @MSGID: 1:2613/477 3117A505

 CC>  If another ST film is made following the events in "Generations," I
 CC>  imagine the Enterprise-E will have a configuration similar to the
 CC>  standard main hull / secondary hull / twin-nacelle design that has
 CC>  always been the paradigm for starships called 'Enterprise.'  Still, a
 CC>  few new wrinkles will be added...
 FG>
 FG> Or maybe the path of least resistance. The next Galaxy-class ship
 FG> off the line....
 FG>
 FG> But maybe with Voyager's bio-pack computers, rather than the older
 FG> isolinear stuff.

 CC>  But please, NO articulated warp nacelle mounts!
 FG>
 FG> Those wouldn't bother me as much if they simply gave a *reason* for
 FG> the articulation. Still, I wouldn't worry. Voyager-class ships seem
 FG> too  small for the kind of long duration missions the Enterprise does.
 FG> (Which makes it all the harder for the one stuck 70.000 ly from home.)

One problem I had with TNG was the families.  With all the risks
of deep space travel, bringing families along wasn't a good
idea.  Getting sent all the way to "Where No One Has Gone
Before" by the Traveler, transported to another quadrant to meet
the Borg by Q, and even having the children kidnapped in "When
the Bough Breaks" are examples of this.  The best example was in
Generations with the crash of the Enterprise after being shot up
by the Duras sisters, too risky for that many civilians I think.

Voyager was designed it seems primarily for short term missions.
It has a smaller crew, only 200, around half of the original
Enterprise.  The mission to run down the Maquis ship was only
supposed to be "a couple of weeks" according to one
episode(I don't remember which one, but I do remember a female
ensign telling Janeway at the end that she was pregnant when the
mission began, but thought it wouldn't be a problem since they
were only supposed to be out a couple of weeks).

A good deep space vessel, similar to the original Enterprise,
with all the new Federation technology, would be an amazing
ship.  I hope we get to see it.



... Klingon prompt: strike any user when ready.
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 Msg  : 233 of 284
 From : Jon Helis                           1:3800/25       .cê 04 .åâ 96 01:05
 To   : All
 Subj : Kate Mulgrew on Tom Snyde
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 * Originally By: Mark Holtz
 * Originally To: All
 * Originally Re: Kate Mulgrew on Tom Snyde
 * Original Area: TREK_VOYAGER
 * Forwarded by : Blue Wave v2.12

@SUBJECT:Kate Mulgrew on Tom Snyder (possible repeat)                N
#PID: BWTG 3.11 [Reg]
@MSGID: 1:203/1701.0 311e75da
 * Originally By: jbn@mystery-train.cu-online.com
 * Originally To: All
 * Originally Re: Kate Mulgrew on Tom Snyder (possible repeat)
 * Original Date: 07 Feb 96  12:11:10
 * Original Area: Star Trek News & Info (Usenet)
 * Forwarded by : Blue Wave/DOS v2.21

On Friday, February 16 on CBS at 11:30 central, Kate Mulgrew (Star Trek:
Voyager's Captain Kathryn Janeway) will visit The Late Late Show with Tom
Snyder.  Explorers Steve and Donna O'Mearas will also be guests.

In some areas this airs live after The Late Show with David Letterman, in
other areas there is a delay.  Unfortunately, I can not determine whether
this is a repeat of her previous appearance or if this is a new show (my
television listing nor the web page below don't indicate repeats).

CBS' Tom Snyder web page at http://www.cbs.com/cgi-bin/snyguests.cgi

--
-!---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Selected by Jim "The Big Dweeb" Griffith.                Email submissions to
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t
-for-mail
From: jbn@mystery-train.cu-online.com (J.B. Nicholson-Owens)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.info
Subject: Kate Mulgrew on Tom Snyder (possible repeat)
Followup-To: rec.arts.startrek.misc
Date: 7 Feb 1996 12:11:10 -0800
Organization: Organizing Organisms & Organs
Lines: 16
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... If you go around assimlating people - YMBAT
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 Msg  : 234 of 284
 From : Jon Helis                           1:3800/25       .cê 04 .åâ 96 01:08
 To   : All
 Subj : Star Trek:The Experience
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
I found this on the Voyager echo.  What do all of you think?


 * Originally By: Mark Holtz
 * Originally To: All
 * Originally Re: Star Trek:The Experience
 * Original Area: TREK_VOYAGER
 * Forwarded by : Blue Wave v2.12

@SUBJECT:Star Trek:The Experience groundbreaking                     N
#PID: BWTG 3.11 [Reg]
@MSGID: 1:203/1701.0 311e75e0
Hey, Larry, looks like you can plan your vacation next year in Vegas! I sure
would love to go!

== Forwarded Message Follows =========================================

 * Originally By: snoop@vegas.infi.net
 * Originally To: All
 * Originally Re: Star Trek:The Experience groundbreaking
 * Original Date: 07 Feb 96  17:02:22
 * Original Area: Star Trek News & Info (Usenet)
 * Forwarded by : Blue Wave/DOS v2.21

The source for the article comes from the January 25, 1996 Las Vegas Review
Journal, Page 1A and 2A.  My summary Follows:

Hi there everyone!

Living in Las Vegas we get some nice perks:  We can lose all our money at
the tables, good cheap food and soon to come, Star Trek:The Experience!

Recently on January 24th top executives from Hilton Hotels as well as
Paramount Parks held the official groundbreaking ceremony for this fantastic
sounding attraction.

Star Trek:The Experience will be many things.  It's 65,000 quare feet will
contain such goodies as a mock up version of the bridge of the starship
Enterprise, a 22 minute long shuttlecraft simulator ride, a dining and
retail area, and a 22,000 square foot casino (this is after all Las Vegas).
The casino area (Spacequest Casino) will feature windows high above the
floor that will simulate the illusion of orbiting the earth on a space station.


The ceremony was itself rather impressive, they had a simulated wormhole
implosion, and a large fireworks display, that showed itself in the form of
the Star Trek logo with the words Star Trek:The Experience under that.

Also attending the ceremony were Trek stars, Jonathan Frakes, Gates
McFadden, and Armin Shimerman.  Star Trek:The Experience is slated to open
in the spring of 1997.

If you have any more questions about this project, please feel free to
E-Mail me at:
Snoop@vegas.infi.net and I'll try to answer them for you.  For now though it
looks like it's time to get a job application!  :)

Evan J. Malik

End of article.

Evan

--
-!---------------------------------------------------------------------------
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From: snoop@vegas.infi.net (Snoop)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.info
Subject: Star Trek:The Experience groundbreaking
Followup-To: rec.arts.startrek.misc
Date: 7 Feb 1996 17:02:22 -0800
Organization: Vulcan Science Academy, Tau Ceti Sector
Lines: 43
Sender: griffith@scam.XCF.Berkeley.EDU
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======================================================================

... OK, I'm weird! But I'm saving up to become eccentric.
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 ! Origin: Deep Space Franchise (916) 721-1701 (1:203/1701)
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 Msg  : 235 of 284
 From : Jon Helis                           1:3800/25       .pä 14 .åâ 96 04:05
 To   : Dean Sweatman
 Subj : Re: Messages
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 -=> Quoting Dean Sweatman to Jon Helis <=-

 DS> @MSGID: 1:396/40 4d16c2fd
 DS> @TID: InterEcho 1.12 6E010867
 -=> Quoting Jon Helis to Dean Sweatman <=-

 JH> I have been posting, not in volume, but posting. 3 messages
 JH> went out of here on January 27 and 5 January 29, and 2(including
 JH> this one) on February 2(tonight), have you seen them?

 DS> 960213 (2/13)
 DS> I am happy to report that your traffic showed up on Reunion today some
 DS> 12 messages dated between 1/29 and 2/03.  What ever the log jam was it
 DS> seems now to have been cleared.  The traffic as not made it to Black
 DS> Tower as yet but may arrive there later tonight or tomorrow depending
 DS> on when he next gets a connect to the system.  Black Tower closes down
 DS> on the 15th ... another good board lost due to lack of interest by the
 DS> user base.<sigh>
 DS> Fiawol

Thank goodness!  It's great that the pipeline has been
unclogged.  I got both copies of this on the same day(2/14/96).

Sorry to hear about Black Tower closing down.  It seems that
alot of BBSes are closing, I guess due to increasingly available
internet.  Locally, there are a good number of BBSes for a city
this size, but it seems alot of them are pay boards.  I get alot
of use out of this board, it's a bargain at $35/year.

There's a rumor starting in the Deep Space 9 echo about the show
being switched from syndication to UPN.  Have you heard anything
about it?  Someone posted that in his market, the show had
switched to the UPN affiliate, during the broadcast the UPN logo
was in the lower right corner of the screen, and they did that
split screen thing UPN does during the Voyager end credits.  I
hope the rumor isn't true.

Here in Baton Rouge, DS9 airs on WVLA-33, our NBC affiliate,
Sunday nights at 11.  Although that's too late for me to stay up
and watch(I have to be at work at 7:45 on Monday morning), I
tape it and watch it later in the week, along with the new Outer
Limits, which comes on after it.  If DS9 switches to UPN, it
will end up on WBTR-19, the UPN affiliate.  That station has a
terrible signal, even with my new set of Radio Shack rabbit
ears, I still can't clear it up, and I've decided I'm not going
to spend $26/month on cable(probably even more with that new
telecom bill Clinton just signed).  I've been enjoying DS9 this
season, and would hate to see it end up on a station with such
poor signal quality.

I know DS9 switched to the UPN affiliate in New Orleans, but the
official reason given for that was channel 26 wouldn't be able
to accomodate it with the ABC lineup taking up most of the
schedule.  Let me know what you've heard, if anything.

Number Six







... I am not a number, I am a free man!
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 Msg  : 236 of 284
 From : Jon Helis                           1:3800/25       .pä 14 .åâ 96 04:12
 To   : Dean Sweatman
 Subj : Re: con report
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 -=> Quoting Dean Sweatman to Jon Helis <=-

 DS> @MSGID: 1:396/40 4d16c30e
 DS> @TID: InterEcho 1.12 6E010867
 -=> Quoting Jon Helis to Dean Sweatman <=-

 JH> That Con report you wrote was last month was pretty good.  Did
 JH> you ever get any repsonses to it?

 DS> Not much.  Someone took issue with my comments re Brent Spiner not
 DS> showing up but it was otherwise ignored.

 DS> Coast Con is upcoming on the Mississippi Gulf Coast (Biloxi) at the
 DS> end of March.  Are you Game?

 DS> Fiawol

I'm not sure if I can make it.  March 9 and 10, I have the
Lafayette Hamfest to go to.  I may end up spending most of my
money there<grin>.

The Cajun Clickers has it's computer expo in November, I'll get
the details to you as I get them.

I visted an interesting bookstore over the weekend,
Books-A-Million over by the mall.  They had a huge selection of
books and magazines, a good amount of fantasy/sf too.  The place
even has a coffee shop inside it.  They also had some comic
books there, but not near the selection of the comic shop in
Chalmette we went to.

This message and the last one are going to be cross posted to
you in EMAIL, in case this mess with the SFFAN backlog starts up
again.

Number Six



... Sickbay 6: We'll leave the doctor on for ya.
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 Msg  : 237 of 284
 From : Jon Helis                           1:3800/25       .pä 14 .åâ 96 06:51
 To   : Robert Lidgren
 Subj : Re: "Q" on VOYAGER
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 -=> Quoting Robert Lidgren to All <=-

 RL> This is it!  The week in which "Q" appears on Star Trek:  Voyager.
 RL> Has anyone head anything at all about the CONTENT of the show?  All
 RL> I've heard is that "Q" is going to appear and, I assume, "Let the fun
 RL> begin!"  He certainly seems to have a secure future as a character in
 RL> the many Star Trek incarnations.  I wonder if he'll also make an
 RL> appearance in the next STTNG movie.  Has anyone heard anything about
 RL> what's up with the new movie?
 RL> I'll be very thankful for any input here.  I feel like I've been
 RL> marooned and "cut off" from the latest news re: these subjects.

 RL> Thanks in advance from a friendly Canadian!

All I've heard about the STTNG movie is that it will bring back
the Borg.  I don't know if this is true, just something I've
read someplace.




... 2 rules for success: #1 Don't tell everything you know.
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 Msg  : 238 of 284
 From : Jon Helis                           1:3800/25       .pä 14 .åâ 96 06:57
 To   : Ecarey
 Subj : RE: STAR TREK SEXISM
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 -=> Quoting Ecarey to Barton Paul Levenson <=-

 Ec> Remember, Roddenberry was responsible for Number One in the first
 Ec> pilot, "The Cage". _That_ was not a woman who thought starship command
 Ec> was out of her reach.

It was a funny thing, both her and Mr. Spock were among the
things the corporate network fatcats didn't like about "The
Cage."  The pilot was also dubbed "too cerebral" is well.  They
thing we viewers are a bunch of idiots.

Spock turned out to be one of the most popular characters, I
wonder if the same thing would have happened to Number One.



... I! am! Kirkutus! -- of! Borg!   Prepare! to! be! -- assimilated!
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 Msg  : 239 of 284
 From : Jon Helis                           1:3800/25       .pä 14 .åâ 96 09:23
 To   : Channon Lang
 Subj : Re: Star Trek
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 -=> Quoting Channon Lang to Jon Helis <=-

 CL> @MSGID: 1:130/809.0 3122c4a9
 CL> #PID: BWRA 3.11 [Eval]
 CL> @TID: GE 1.11+
 CL> From a dark bottomless pit,Jon Helis screamed up to Channon Lang about
 CL> Star Trek..

 KW> first started, being one of them "Nothing can replace Kirk & Company"
 KW> fanatics....I got better!) <g>
 CL>
 CL> Yeah, I know what you mean. I was that way about TNG, too. My dad
 CL> still refuses to watch DS9, but somehow he tolerates V'ger. I keep
 CL> trying to give V'ger the benefit of the doubt. But, to tell you what,
 CL> if they don't start doing MUCH better, I'll have to finally write it
 CL> off. Actually, I like Janeway, but the writers need to really start
 CL> working...maybe get some writers from TNG or something...or start
 CL> totally new...who knows.

 JH> When I first heard about TNG, I thought it would be hard to top
 JH> the original.  Once it started, I changed my mind.  Like you, I
 JH> think it got better too.

 JH> I enjoy watching DS9, but Voyager, sometimes it's good, while at
 JH> other times, outright disappointing.  This inconsistency is
 JH> slowly starting to push me away.  Unless they start coming up
 JH> with good scripts, I may write it off too.

 CL> I was concerned about DS9 for a while...and really leary about Worf
 CL> showing up there. But it seems to shaping up quite nicely. And Worf is
 CL> finding a friend in Dax...it's interesing how quickly he replaced
 CL> Deanna Troy, isn't it?

Worf's relationship with Odo is somewhat interesting, in fact,
it's beginning to look a little like Odo's relationship with
Quark.

Last month, I got the chance to see Terry Farrel at a
convention.  She's a very entertaining speaker.  Seeing her
handle a 10 foot albino python was also interesting.

 JH> The ghosts of Battlestar Galactica and Space 1999 still haunt me
 JH> when I see Voyager.

 CL> I really like Battlestar Galactica...but then I was a teenage with a
 CL> HUGE crush on Dirk Benedict, too...As for Space 1999, I couldn't stand
 CL> it!
 CL> Channon

I enjoyed Galactica's first few episodes, but it did later go
down hill for me.  It's spinoff, Galactica 1980, was a major
disappointment for me.  Space:1999 during its first season had
some good stories, but the second season(which included Fred
Frieberger, the producer of Star Trek's last season, and the
introduction of a shapeshifting alien) really sucked the sewage.
I still have my 2.5 foot long Eagle One playset around here
somewhere.  I also have a toy Cylon Raider spaceship, one of the
ones that fires missiles, that were pulled from the market after
a child suffered a choking accident.

To be young again.....




... What can you do at 3 AM?   Psssttt - got a modem??
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 Msg  : 240 of 284
 From : Jon Helis                           1:3800/25       .pä 14 .åâ 96 18:27
 To   : Shawn Snyder
 Subj : Re: "Q" on VOYAGER
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 -=> Quoting Shawn Snyder to Robert Lidgren <=-

 SS> @MSGID: 1:2601/507.0 3128aa40
 SS> Rob, I heard that there is a "Q" planning to attempt suicide
 SS> or something like that.  Jonothan Frakes is suposed to be in it, also.

Yes that's exactly what happens.  Frakes had a brief appearance
in it too.  I won't give anything else away, since it hasn't
aired nationwide yet.






... Have you crashed your Windows today?
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 Msg  : 241 of 284
 From : Jon Helis                           1:3800/25       .pä 14 .åâ 96 18:35
 To   : Robert Lidgren
 Subj : Re: CLARIFICATION
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 -=> Quoting Robert Lidgren to Nicolai Shapero <=-

 RL> I heard a rumour SOMEWHERE that "Sliders" was returning March 1st.  Is
 RL> there any truth to this?

Yes it is returning with new episodes.  I saw a promo during
Space:Above and Beyond over the weeekend.

Celebrate, it's coming back.



... Reality is for people that are out of touch with FANDOM.
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 Msg  : 242 of 284
 From : Jon Helis                           1:3800/25       .pä 14 .åâ 96 18:37
 To   : Barton Paul Levenson
 Subj : Re: Cybersex
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 -=> Quoting Barton Paul Levenson to Anders Danebo <=-

 BPL> @MSGID: 1:129/26.0 3125bb20
 BPL> @REPLY: 2:201/190.0 311ea93a
 BPL> I think I know what you're trying to say, but I think you're mistaken
 BPL> if you say sex can't be discussed seriously, under SF or otherwise.
 BPL> Some interesting comments on sex and human sexuality have come out of
 BPL> science fiction -- though usually books and not TV/movies.  Cf LeGuin's
 BPL> "The Left Hand of Darkness" or Philip Jose Farmer's "The Loverbirds"
 BPL> (very daring when it first came out).  Or anything by Heinlein after he
 BPL> became obsessed with sex.

The 1973 Michael Crichton film "Westworld" dealt with this issue
in a very interesting way.

Anyone who's seen it care to discuss it?



... Non-Trekkies of the world-- GET A FUTURE!!
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

--- PCBoard (R) v15.22/M 10
 * Origin: * DataCom BBS - Baton Rouge, La. -  (504)275-2605 - @dcbbs.com *
(1:3800/25)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 243 of 284
 From : Jon Helis                           1:3800/25       .pä 14 .åâ 96 19:13
 To   : Dean Sweatman
 Subj : Re: What next?
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 -=> Quoting Dean Sweatman to Jon Helis (#6) <=-

 DS> @MSGID: 1:396/40 51142b5c
 DS> @TID: InterEcho 1.12 6E010867
 DS> * Crossposted from: L_FIAWOL

 -=> Quoting #6 to Dean Sweatman <=-

 #6> What do you think of this Dean?  I guess Trekkies go for
 #6> anything!

 KA> * Originally By: Mark Holtz
 KA> * Originally To: All
 KA> * Originally Re: Star Trek:The Experience
 KA> * Original Area: TREK_VOYAGER
 KA> * Forwarded by : Blue Wave v2.12

 KA> @SUBJECT:Star Trek:The Experience groundbreaking                     N
 KA> #PID: BWTG 3.11 [Reg]
 KA> @MSGID: 1:203/1701.0 311e75e0
 KA> Hey, Larry, looks like you can plan your vacation next year in Vegas!
 KA> I sure  would love to go!

 KA> == Forwarded Message Follows =========================================

 KA> * Originally By: snoop@vegas.infi.net
 KA> * Originally To: All
 KA> * Originally Re: Star Trek:The Experience groundbreaking
 KA> * Original Date: 07 Feb 96  17:02:22
 KA> * Original Area: Star Trek News & Info (Usenet)
 KA> * Forwarded by : Blue Wave/DOS v2.21

 KA> The source for the article comes from the January 25, 1996 Las Vegas
 KA> Review Journal, Page 1A and 2A.  My summary Follows:

 KA> Hi there everyone!

 KA> Living in Las Vegas we get some nice perks:  We can lose all our money
 KA> at the tables, good cheap food and soon to come, Star Trek:The
 KA> Experience!

 KA> Recently on January 24th top executives from Hilton Hotels as well as
 KA> Paramount Parks held the official groundbreaking ceremony for this
 KA> fantastic sounding attraction.

 KA> Star Trek:The Experience will be many things.  It's 65,000 quare feet
 KA> will contain such goodies as a mock up version of the bridge of the
 KA> starship Enterprise, a 22 minute long shuttlecraft simulator ride, a
 KA> dining and retail area, and a 22,000 square foot casino (this is after
 KA> all Las Vegas). The casino area (Spacequest Casino) will feature
 KA> windows high above the floor that will simulate the illusion of
 KA> orbiting the earth on a space station.

 KA> The ceremony was itself rather impressive, they had a simulated
 KA> wormhole implosion, and a large fireworks display, that showed itself
 KA> in the form of the Star Trek logo with the words Star Trek:The
 KA> Experience under that.
 KA> Also attending the ceremony were Trek stars, Jonathan Frakes, Gates
 KA> McFadden, and Armin Shimerman.  Star Trek:The Experience is slated to
 KA> open in the spring of 1997.

 KA> If you have any more questions about this project, please feel free to
 KA> E-Mail me at:
 KA> Snoop@vegas.infi.net and I'll try to answer them for you.  For now
 KA> though it looks like it's time to get a job application!  :)

 KA> Evan J. Malik

 KA> End of article.

 KA> Evan
 DS>
 DS> Are you Sure that you REALLY WANT TO KNOW? :^)

 DS> I think that there has come into being a a blend of fandom and the
 DS> frenges that are willing to spend their money on anything that suits
 DS> their fancy and that the business world is taking every oppertunity
 DS> that they can of sucking up everything that the fen are willing to part
 DS> with.  This casino is just the top of the heap with autographed photos
 DS> and Special packaged items (Get Generations now in a Foil stamped
 DS> limited collectors box) being offered through the mail, at cons/shows,
 DS> magazines and TV.  The only thing that is going to stop these dirty
 DS> dealers from preying upon Fandom and the frenge is for us to say
 DS> enough is enough and stop spending our money so foolishly.

 DS> We will be seeing resturants soon with the waiters dressed as super
 DS> heroes for the comics inclined and I am sure that it won't be long till
 DS> we find a 10 forward in every major city.

 DS> Nuff said

My opinion, like yours, is that this stuff wouldn't go on if
there weren't alot of people who had the money to spend on it
around.

Back when I had cable, I saw one of those Trek shows on QVC, and
one caller, who was buying another autographed plaque, boasted
of having "6 cast member plaques, and the one with the whole
cast."  At $50-$80 apiece, and $500 for the whole cast, someone
spent $1000 on those things.

Amongst other crazy merchandise I've seen them sell is a limited
edition autographed Star Trek telephone calling card!  I've seen
similar cards depicting comic book heroes.

Unfortunately, many fans buy this stuff because they think they
are showing what big fans they are.  To me, all this shows is
that you have access to money, or a high line of credit on your
VISA, not that you are fan.

Being able to see Gary Graham, Eric Pierpoint, and Michael
O'Hare in person at Cons like we did, being able to shake
hands with Jon Pertwee, and getting their autographs in person,
is of more value to me than anything that can be bought off of
QVC.

Being around and talking with people who really enjoy SF for
what it is, is what fandom is all about.

FIAWOL

p.s I'm gonna post your message back to the Voyager echo, and if
I get any good responses, I'll send them back to you.

Number Six

... There Is No Intelligent Life Here! They Are Using Windows
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

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 * Origin: * DataCom BBS - Baton Rouge, La. -  (504)275-2605 - @dcbbs.com *
(1:3800/25)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 244 of 284
 From : Debbie Bickford                     1:203/996       .òp 20 .åâ 96 18:32
 To   : Frank Glover
 Subj : Re: Star Trek Comics
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12  91-0092

->
-> DJ>  For one week, as part of the crossover, 12 issues will be printe
-> DJ>  under
-> DJ>  the "Amalgam" imprint.  It will include "Bruce Wayne, Agent of
-> DJ>  Shield",
-> DJ>  "Super-Soldier", "Spider-Boy", "JLX", and "Doctor Strangefate",
-> DJ>  with other concepts hybridised between the two companies.
->
-> Not the one I had in mind. What I read of involved the heroes as we
-> know them, with several different one-on-one encounters, and definite
-> winners and losers.
->

As you've probably heard by now, it's the same one.  For one week of the
DC/Marvel, Marvel/DC crossover, there will be an amalgamated universe,
which will include the above characters, for 12 issues in all.  It will
be followed by the 4th issues of the limited series, which is supposed
to 'unzip' the universes again.

--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12
 * Origin: Xanth-Wildcat 4.12 Sac CA 916-364-1826 28800 V34  (1:203/996.0)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 245 of 284
 From : Kim Wheat                           1:271/285       .îí 19 .åâ 96 16:03
 To   : Kevin Ahearn
 Subj : Star Trek & Q
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
---<<*<<< Kevin dazzled Buc Wheat with these words of wisdom!! >>>**>>----

 KW>  Even I might watch this episode on Monday. I've never liked Q, myself.
 KW>  Think the writers made a big mistake with this character. Never, ever
 KW>  have a 'Superman' type character on the show!!! The only way to have
 KW>  interesting plots that don't repeat themselves endlessly is to remove
 KW>  his powers..and then he's no longer Q! And if he keeps his powers,
 KW>  then it's just a rehashed story! Stupid move to have come up with this
 KW>  guy!

 KA> Your comments remind me of an old saying about fantasy stories:  "If
 KA> anything is possible, nothing is interesting.

 Exactly, Kevin! Thanks! :>

 KW>  If Q appears on V'ger...then why isn't the show finished then?? He
 KW>  simply pops them back to Fed space and everyone goes home. This won't
 KW>  happen, of course....but I bet you the reasons this doesn't take place
 KW>  won't be satisfactory. Therefore, once again, it'll prove that this
 KW>  character just doesn't work as a viable plot device.

 KA> Actually, there is a real good reason for this.  The scent which would
 KA> explain it would proceed something like this:
 KA> Janeway:  "Q, will you send us back to Federation space?"
 KA> Q:  "No."
 KA> Janeway:  "Why not?"
 KA> Q:  "I don't feel like it.  See ya."

 Probably....I'll try to sit down tonite at 8:00pm with an open mind.
 But gotta tell....as much as I don't like the character of Q....
 well, I hate the character of Riker much more! <g>

 Now Beverly....then we're talking!!! :)

 Kim :)


--- GEcho 1.00
 * Origin: From Trekkies & from B5ers who hate Trek save us! (1:271/285.0)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 246 of 284
 From : Dean Sweatman                       1:396/40        .òp 20 .åâ 96 21:24
 To   : All
 Subj : Gen - X movie
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: InterEcho 1.12 6E010867
 * Crossposted from: L_FIAWOL

My taste in the super-hero genre has not been in Marvel's corner for some years
but the Generation - X movie was not the total disaster that reading some of the
reviews had led me to expect.

By no means was this a Batman or Superman epic but it did translate into a live
action framework the idea that The White Witch, Havoc, and various other marvel
characters could be presented with out completely blowing it.  I have not read
any of the Generation - X stories so I did not go into the movie with many
pre-concived ideas as to what the characters should look like (with the
exception of JL) and was pleased with the  translation to the screen.  Over all
a passable effort and probably as good as we have seen from Marvel Entertainment
in some time.

Fiawol


... Dean Sweatman's Continuing and Relentless quest toward Fuggheadedness

___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20 [NR]


--- InterEcho 1.12
 * Origin: REUNION BBS, Harahan, La., USA (504) 738-5162 Try God (1:396/40)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 247 of 284
 From : Dean Sweatman                       1:396/40        .pä 21 .åâ 96 00:20
 To   : Jon Helis
 Subj : message traffic
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: InterEcho 1.12 6E010867
Ok, Your last traffic hit Reunion on the 13th.  at that time I got some 12
messages dated between the January 29th and Feb 3rd.

12 messages arrived tonight
1 dated 2/03
2 dated 2/04
9 dated 2/14

These messages are the first that I have seen since the previous batch that
arrived on the 13th.  I find it a tad odd that both slugs of traffic are an even
Dozen almost as if your sysop has a minimum size packet to be reached before the
packet is sent on to his hub.  I will keep an eye on this and let you know what
I see in the future.  Best send you replied via net-mail and postings if you
want timely transfer of traffic.

OTC
what did you think of the Q/Voyager ep?

Looks like Q will be up to some of his old tricks and I thought that the "Q"uinn
might have been interesting as a crewman but we will never know now.  Himlock
(ms) makes sencebut I will bet that there were a lot of viewers that had that go
right over their heads.

... Dean Sweatman's Continuing and Relentless quest toward Fuggheadedness

___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20 [NR]


--- InterEcho 1.12
 * Origin: REUNION BBS, Harahan, La., USA (504) 738-5162 Try God (1:396/40)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 248 of 284
 From : Timothy H. Willis                   1:306/32        .îí 19 .åâ 96 14:43
 To   : Phill Ash
 Subj : Re: Alien threats?
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
* Oh? Phill Ash & Timothy H. Willis are havin' coffee 'n laywers at dawn? *

 THW> Anyway...
 THW> Have you by any chance read Harry Turtledove's "World War:" Saga?

    -----snip-----

 THW> Mostly I just lurk here, but I couldn't pass this one up.  I really
 THW> do recomment the books... the first one is titled "World War: In the
 THW> Balance". Seeya around

 PA> GREAT SERIES!!!
 PA> Turtledove is a genius... I've got a friend who, though he
 PA> hates SF in any form, is a WWII buff and is goading me to let
 PA> him borrow "Tilting the Balance"!

    I just picked that one up... loved the cover art. <chuckle>
I started buying them when Ballantine (DelRey) decided they didn't
want to buy my alternate WW-2 trilogy... though they were kind of
interested in it for a while.  I wish I'd come up with the idea.

 PA> The one thing that really interests me about the series is
 PA> that, aside from the spacecraft and hydrogen-based propulsion
 PA> systems, The Race is not that far ahead of "current-day"
 PA> technology.  In that light, the books become a stage for an
 PA> "are we any better today than we were 50 years ago" comparison.
 PA> Any thoughts?

    I *loved* it when The Race popped off their nukes in the
upper atmosphere to fry communications and such... and the vacuum
tube tech of the era just shrugged it off. <snicker>  The books are
pretty interesting in how the tech levels "even out" because The
Race is fighting a "come as you are" sort of war.  It also shows
how "lower tech" doesn't necessarily equate with "inferior tech".
    I'm something of an alternate history SF buff, having
gotten well and thoroughly hooked by H. Beam Piper's "Lord Kalvan
of Otherwhen".  Read "The Man in the High Castle" shortly after
I found "Kalvan", and have been searching out alt-hist ever since.
    Speaking of which; have you read "Guns of the South"?
    Timothy & a buncha felines...



... "Bummer" said Pooh when Tigger dropped the joint in the honey jar.
--- FMail/386 1.0g
 * Origin: The Forum BBS-Ft Collins,CO *NODE @* (970)225-2627 (1:306/32)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 249 of 284
 From : Ecarey                              1:101/230       .îí 19 .åâ 96 14:07
 To   : Darre Luallen
 Subj : STAR TREK
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
DL> Actually, you highlight on a potential argument that I missed.  (Bad me.
DL> Bad me.  Sit.  Stay.)  What I was referring to was something I think that
DL> he can easily see: child-bearing.  I personally wish I had thought of the
DL> point which you brought up.  Hum... Oh well.  You do have a good point.
DL> I don't know if you saw my post on his close-mindedness, but I think all
DL> arguments are wasted at this point.  You know, SF/F stories are littered
DL> with people like this.  (Swerve... Crash... Are we back on topic yet? 8) )
DL> Usually, they get eaten by the alien beastie or de-selected by the heroes/
DL> villians.

And it's such fun to watch.:)

 * OLX 2.1 TD * I'm in shape ... round's a shape isn't it?

--- FLAME v1.0
 * Origin: Withouta Net - Drop In Anytime! - 617/846-5416 (1:101/230)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 250 of 284
 From : ROBERT LIDGREN                      1:134/10        .îí 19 .åâ 96 23:40
 To   : ANDERS DANEBO
 Subj : "Q" ON VOYAGER
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
-> A little input and a personal opinion..I can't believe they didn't put Q in
-> with the GENERATIONS gang...Big mistake(good movie but it should have had Q
-> in it...)

I think I heard Q will be in the next STTNG movie.  Have you or anyone else
heard such a rumour.  I think the filminf ogf the new movie should be underway
some time this year.  I'll have to do some exploring on the Web to learn more.
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Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 251 of 284
 From : ROBERT LIDGREN                      1:134/10        .îí 19 .åâ 96 23:41
 To   : KAY SHAPERO
 Subj : FILK MODERATOR
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
-> RL>missed the latest directive.  Waht caused Kay to make her RL>decision?
-> What
-> I'm not the moderator.  Nicolai is.  I'm moderator of FILK - if you're
-> interested in sf folksongs, come on over some time!

THANKS FOR THE REMINDER.  I've already sent along my apologies to Nicolai.

What's the name of the FILK node?  I certainly will drop in.
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Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 252 of 284
 From : ROBERT LIDGREN                      1:134/10        .îí 19 .åâ 96 23:50
 To   : KIM KELLEY
 Subj : X-FILES
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
-> Did either of you see the 2-9 episode that is to be continued?  This one has
-> truly kept me on the edge of my seat wondering exactly "what" is inhabiting
-> all these people.  With the black "roling" eyes, the mystery is even more
-> powerful, because that's all that is evident until "it" explodes into
-> radiation.  It appears, to me, that "it" is "getting back" at someone.

I've now seen the 2nd part of the two-parter.  They had to work fast and
furious to try and tie up so mnay of the threads.  It always angers me when
Scully and Mulder are whisked off at the last minute when they get too "close"
to something.  Krycek ends off the episode neatly locked up in the radiation
chamber - somehow I think it's not the last we see of him.

The more I see of Cancer Man the more I hate that character.  He's just too
damn pompous!  Doesn't ANYTHING intimidate him or get his goat?  Even when he
gets "in dutch" with his superiors it is never anything which seems to make him
blink.  I guess that's part of the reason he is such an effective "foil" up
against Scully and Mulder.  I was pleased, however, that Scully and Mulder were
much more pleasant - even caring toward each other in this two-parter.  I was
wondering where things were going a few episodes back.  It seemed like the big
"diaspora" in the relationship at that time.

I notice that in this recetn episode we were getting "voice overs" for Scully
now too.  Some people don't like them but I do.  It's a technique used in
literature all the time - showing the inner thoughts of a character.  So long
as it's not over-used the technique has some benefits.

Cheers,

-Rob

======================================================================
| Robert Lidgren \\\|/// * THE INNER SANCTUM | * The Old Viking      |
|                ( o o ) * Writer, Teacher   | * Seeker of the Truth |
| =========o00o====(_)====o00o=======================================|
| e-mail me at------------> robert.lidgren@bbs.logicnet.com          |
| My Personal Web Site----> http://www.logicnet.com/robert.lidgren   |
======================================================================
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Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 253 of 284
 From : ROBERT LIDGREN                      1:134/10        .îí 19 .åâ 96 23:58
 To   : ALL
 Subj : TERAFORMING
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Here's a question for readers of SF out there.  Have you read any good books or
short stories containing the process of TERRAFORMING?  The process was used in
a Star Trek movie but I want to explore the idea further in fiction.
TERRAFORMING is the process of turning an unihabitable planet into one with the
environmentet suitable for human habitation without the need for life-support,
self-contained air-supply, protective suits, etc.

I hope someone has come across material dealing with this subject.

A reply is requested here or directly to me at my address below:

======================================================================
| Robert Lidgren \\\|/// * THE INNER SANCTUM | * The Old Viking      |
|                ( o o ) * Writer, Teacher   | * Seeker of the Truth |
| =========o00o====(_)====o00o=======================================|
| e-mail me at------------> robert.lidgren@bbs.logicnet.com          |
| My Personal Web Site----> http://www.logicnet.com/robert.lidgren   |
======================================================================
--- PCBoard 15.2
 * Origin: 32 lines 40 Gig BBS, Realtime InterNet SLIP (403)299-9900 (1:134/10)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 254 of 284
 From : Frank Glover                        1:2613/477      .pä 21 .åâ 96 22:24
 To   : Darre LuAllen
 Subj : Bs!!
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

DL>   factors for invasion.  Suppose an alien race decides to "protect us"
DL>  from
DL>   a more aggressive race.  Wouldn't a sudden appearance of an alien
DL>  force
DL>   wanting to occupy the Earth be an considered an invasion?

   At least until the *real* bad guys showed up, yes. (And *if* real baddies
showed up. It could be a scam. Humans already know what a `protection' racket
is....)

   Frank


--- QuickBBS 2.80 GoldBase (Zeta-1)
 * Origin: The Matrix Data Bank BBS, Rochester, Ny (1:2613/477)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 255 of 284
 From : Judy Hayes                          1:154/40        .òp 20 .åâ 96 21:11
 To   : Kay Shapero
 Subj : Re: Help
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

-> "Who me? I'm just plain & simple." said Kay.

 KS> @MSGID: 1:102/524 31290f09
 KS> On <Feb 17 15:58>, Judy Hayes (1:154/40) wrote to JOHN ROSS:

 JR> Kay ,I heard a song at a con once called ,Banned From Argo,but have
 JR> been unable to find a local source.Do you perchance have the lyrics?or
 JR> if not where I could get them.


 JH>"Banned from Argos, every one.
 JH>  Banned from Argos, just for having a little fun."

 JH>That one?

 KS> "Argo", not "Argos", but that's the only one I know.  I netmailed him
 KS> a copy recently - want to see the one I have and compare notes?

I'm sure you're right...I don't know why I said Argos.

I don't have a copy handy....just have it on tape somewhere.  However, I
was going to contact a friend who has simply oodles of Filk books to get
it.  After I do I'll get back to you.  <g>

      --Quoshara



... "It is only to the happy that tears are a luxury." - THOMAS MOORE
---
 * Origin: Anonymous BBS -=- Non plus Ultra -=- 414-251-2580 (1:154/40)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 256 of 284
 From : James Walton                        1:129/260       .pä 21 .åâ 96 13:37
 To   : Mark Jones
 Subj : Re: Star Trek
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 > How many FEMALE serial killers can you name?  How many times has
 > a WOMAN climbed into a bell tower and started shooting passers-by?

This is entirely off topic here.  But to answer your question, both have
happened many times in US history.  The vast difference is that a lot of crimes
committed by females are/were hushed up.  Very recently a woman in Florida posed
as a prostitute to kill men and rob them. I think she got 6 before she was
caught.
And have you ever heard that song by the BoomTown Rats called "I don't like
Mondays?"  It is based on a true story.  A 15 year old girl took her father's
rifle to school and killed several people  because "Mondays are boring."

Please do NOT answer me in this echo.



--- Opus-CBCS 1.73a
 * Origin: ConFluence '96:  Return to Mars! (1:129/260.0)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 257 of 284
 From : Gerry Normandeau                    1:163/430       .pä 21 .åâ 96 03:36
 To   : Pavel Viaznikov
 Subj : The Twelve Monkies
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On 02-18-96  02:09 Pavel Viaznikov sent Gerry Normandeau to the gallows pole
because of The Twelve Monkies!

 PV> - As far as I know, that was "Runway" (meaning the takeoff strip) by
 PV> Crys Marker, dated 1962. Sorry, I am not very sure of the original name
 PV> since I saw the movie several years ago and in Russian (in "Illusion",
 PV> the Moscow old movies
 PV> theatre. I know how it was called by the synchro-translator - and that
 PV> was the "Takeoff strip" (the movie begins and ends on the airfield),
 PV> but I am not sure of the original name of the film). I still remember
 PV> those stills: the death of Paris, with evaporating, still by still,
 PV> Tour d'Effel; and  that future where we
 PV> only can see faces covered with big spectacles or masks, and very
 PV> interesting light effects.
 PV> Did this help?
 PV> Yours, Pavel

I don't know if my message to the sysop has reached you yet, but I
have found what I was looking for. The name of the movie is "La Jette"
The Jetty. Have you seen the Twelve Monkies yet? When you watch it,
even though the reason for the worlds destruction has changed, the basic
plot of the story is almost identical. Terri Gillium, in my opinion,
is a master genius of visual filmmaking. Let me know what you think! :)

Gerry.Normandeau@Offsprng.Takeone.co <<>> Royal Hangman To His Majesty
|
                                          King Bruno The Questionable




... Where am I going?  And, WHY AM I IN THIS HANDBASKET?????
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

--- Maximus 2.01wb
 * Origin: Watership Down BBS, Kanata , ON (1:163/430)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 258 of 284
 From : Owen E. Oulton                      1:243/45        .îí 19 .åâ 96 14:00
 To   : Bill Clements
 Subj : EDUCATION
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 BPL> My degree is University of Pittsburgh 1983.

 BC> The date of your degree tells me that you are , in all
 BC> probability, the child of baby-boom parents,

Precocious Boomers, indeed.  With a degree date of 1983, it is likely that BPL
was born about 1961 (assuming a 4-year degree begun immediately after high
school completion).  The Baby Boom ran from 1947 through about 1960.  If BPL's
parents were Boomers, they were, at most 14 years old at the time of his birth.
Statistically speaking, a much larger percentage than normal of Boomers put off
having children until well into their thirties.  The so-called Generation-X
(named, paradoxically, after a Punk band full of Bay Boomers) are not, for the
most part, the children of Boomers, but rather their younger siblings.

CFN, O

--- Maximus 2.01wb
 * Origin: Pandora's Box, Ottawa, Ont. 613-829-1209 (1:243/45)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 259 of 284
 From : Frank Swarbrick                     1:104/825       .òp 20 .åâ 96 23:31
 To   : Anders Danebo
 Subj : Hello !
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12  92-0022
On 02-17-96  20:54 my Very Good Friend Anders Danebo said:

 -=> Quoting Jeroen Jacobs to All <=-

 JJ> And these are my favorite SF-series:

 JJ> - the X files.
 JJ> - Star Trek : Deep Space 9
 JJ> - Star Trek : The Next Generation
 JJ> - Star Trek : Voyager
 JJ> - The Outer Limits

 AD> You must be my twin or my twin soul...Exactly my faves..

What, no Babylon 5?

        Frank

... No one can hear when you're Screaming in Digital!
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12
 * Origin: The Bailey Information Exchange BBS, 28.8k v.fc  (1:104/825.0)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 260 of 284
 From : Frank Swarbrick                     1:104/825       .òp 20 .åâ 96 23:34
 To   : Robert Lidgren
 Subj : CLARIFICATION
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12  92-0022
On 02-18-96  00:41 my Very Good Friend Robert Lidgren said:

 RL> I heard a rumour SOMEWHERE that "Sliders" was returning March 1st.  Is
 RL> there any truth to this?

Yes indeed.  Not sure on the date.  The season finale of Strange Luck
is this week, Feb 23, so March 1 being the next Friday that sounds
reasonable to me.  Personally, I wish they would have brought back
VR.5 instead, but I liked Sliders well enough so I guess that's
alright...

        Frank

... No one can hear when you're Screaming in Digital!
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12
 * Origin: The Bailey Information Exchange BBS, 28.8k v.fc  (1:104/825.0)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 261 of 284
 From : Nicolai Shapero                     1:102/524       .pä 21 .åâ 96 03:47
 To   : Darre LuAllen
 Subj : Re: Star Trek
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Feb 19 11:21>, Darre LuAllen (1:3637/1) wrote to Christian Raven:

 DL> Let me begin by letting you know how much of an arrogant fool
 DL>you truly are.

AHEM!  There is a difference between declaring that an idea is stupid and
declaring that the proponent of an idea is stupid.  The former is acceptable on
this conference, the latter is not.

Please restrict yourself to attacks on the idea, NOT on the person.

-- Nicolai Shapero, Moderator of the SFFAN echo

--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 262 of 284
 From : Nicolai Shapero                     1:102/524       .pä 21 .åâ 96 03:51
 To   : Pavel Viaznikov
 Subj : X-FILES
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Feb 18 15:57>, Pavel Viaznikov (2:5020/185.9) wrote to Tommy Kellerman:

 PV>Ïpèâåòñòâóþ, Tommy!

Fix your quoting mechanism -- the salutation line comes across as gibberish.

-- Nicolai Shapero, Moderator of the SFFAN echo

--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 263 of 284
 From : Kay Shapero                         1:102/524       .pä 21 .åâ 96 08:06
 To   : Tommy Kellerman
 Subj : Ufo
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Feb 16 21:20>, Tommy Kellerman (2:205/356) wrote to Kay Shapero:

 KS> Hmm... sounds to me like a bolide seen head on.  This is a big enough
 KS> meteorite to make a spectacular display on the way in, shedding bits and
 KS> lighting up the sky.

 TK>Hmm. I'm sorry, I don't know what a bolide is. Maybe you could
 TK>enlighten me?

A big meteorite, as defined in the rest of the paragraph.  However, if the
doohicky was actually up there for an hour (objective, not subjective), it
couldn't have been a bolide.

--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 264 of 284
 From : Kay Shapero                         1:102/524       .pä 21 .åâ 96 18:29
 To   : Darre LuAllen
 Subj : The Enchanted Forest Chronicles
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Feb 19 12:01>, Darre LuAllen (1:3637/1) wrote to Kay Shapero:

 KS> And speaking of irritating life forms, I'm most of the way
 KS> through my reread of Patricia Wrede's Enchanted Forest
 KS> books now that they're all collected in one place, and I
 KS> find myself noticing how much the wizards remind me of
 KS> certain politicians, and wondering what effect a carefully
 KS> applied bucket of soapy water with lemon would have on
 KS> same.  :->
 DL>
 DL> How about a recommendation on these?

OK, I recommend them.  Highly.  :->  The first one in the order they were
written is TALKING TO DRAGONS; the next three all take place before it and are,
in order (written and chronological) DEALING WITH DRAGONS, SEARCHING FOR DRAGONS
and CALLING ON DRAGONS.  If you can, get the SF Book Club compliation THE
ENCHANTED FOREST CHRONICLES; these can be hard to track donw individually.
Dealing, Searching and Calling should be read in that order; Talking can be read
either first or last and, in fact, works just fine all by itself.

If you look for them individually, be sure to check the YA section which is
where they generally turn up.  The author has taken a lot of standard fairy tale
themes and situations and turned them into a delightfully coherant whole, and
given things a half twist in the process.  (For example, Dealing involves a
princess who gets sufficiently fed up with being expected to spend her time on
dancing and ettiquette instead of doing interesting things, and runs off to
become a dragon's princess; with interesting results).

The soapy water with lemon comment is based on something that is discovered in
"Dealing" which is something of a spoiler, if not much of one.  If you don't
care, check below.


















It melts wizards. Most of whom deserve it. It's not permanent, alas, but at
least it gets them out of one's hair for a few days.

--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 265 of 284
 From : Bill Clements                       1:18/230        .pä 21 .åâ 96 20:19
 To   : Barton Paul Levenson
 Subj : EDUCATION
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
From the desk of a cynical old man...

On (17 Feb 96) BARTON PAUL LEVENSON wrote to BILL CLEMENTS...

 BP> Sorry, pal, but I'm not functionally illiterate. I can read
 BP> and write and do well at tests; I type 60 wpm. You can't
 BP> use your own definitions for words or phrases, it just
 BP> confuses everyone. "Functionally illiterate" has a formal
 BP> definition which I don't meet.

Actually, most of the citizenry of these United States is, by
19th century standards, not functionally illiterate but simply
uneducated. Since you claim literacy you might trouble yourself
to read 'The Happy Days Ahead" in 'Expanded Universe'
(C)opyright 1980 by Robert A. Heinlein. My observations on 'Span
of time - the Decline of Education', as my father was born in
rural Illinois in 1882, are much the same as Heinlein's.

This post started out as a NastyGram however your current crop
of posts, the above excepted as I do understand the formal
definition of functional illiteracy and believe that it
describes most of the product of the public schools for the last
30 years, has caused me to grant you the status of honored
opponent. Your views are a bit liberal for my taste. Still we
can agree to disagree, stop wasting bandwidth on flames, and get
on with the discussion.Chalk up my vitriol to the fact that I'm
a old man, living on a fixed income, and sick and tired of
reading this TV drivel.


--RWC

--- LazarusTags:  / QWK

--- FLAME v1.1
 * Origin: ANCESTRY TBBS Shadows of forgotten ancestors 941-382-9061 (1:18/230)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 266 of 284
 From : Bill Clements                       1:18/230        .pä 21 .åâ 96 20:19
 To   : All
 Subj : EXIT
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
From the desk of a cynical old man...

fan (fan) n. (Slang)  a devoted admirer  [abbrev. of fanatic].

fa-nat-ic (fa-nat'-ik) n.  a person inspired with excessive and
 bigoted enthusiasm, esp. a religious zealot; devotee; a. over-
 enthusiastic; immoderatly zealous.  -al  a.  -ally  adv.
 fanaticism n. violent enthusiasm [L. fanum, a temple].

                                                       --Webster

I find that I really don't belong in this echo as I am simply a
reader and do not qualify as a fan. Now that I know that the SF
Lit Echo exists, thanks KIm, I will, if I can get my local SYSOP
to put it up, move there. Then I will disappear from here, in a
puff of dirty dark smoke, never to be seen again.

--RWC

--- LazarusTags:  / QWK

--- FLAME v1.1
 * Origin: ANCESTRY TBBS Shadows of forgotten ancestors 941-382-9061 (1:18/230)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 267 of 284
 From : JOHN ROSS                           1:116/1977      .åò 22 .åâ 96 09:33
 To   : JUDY HAYES
 Subj : Re: Help
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.SPTH: FidoNet#1:116/1977 :369/110
Thanks ,Kay said that she sent me one and I'll see if it shows up in the
next week or so.Thanks again

---
 þ SLMR 2.1a þ This tagline is umop apisdn

--- AdeptXBBS v1.06(Registered)
 * Origin: AdeptXBBS (1:116/1977)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 268 of 284
 From : Anders Danebo                       2:201/190       .pä 21 .åâ 96 17:21
 To   : Mark Jones
 Subj : Cybersex
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

-=> Quoting Mark Jones to Anders Danebo <=-

 MJ> On (11 Feb 96) Anders Danebo wrote to Bianca Wesslak...

 MJ> The conference is meant for discussion of all facets of SF (unless
 MJ> they're ruled off-topic by Nicolai), including cybersex.
 MJ> One can discuss sex without being a lonely boy, you know.  The
 MJ> possibility of virtual sex is a perfectly plausible idea, and one that
 MJ> *does* have a connection to SF.  The film BRAINSTORM (from the 70's),
 MJ> for instance, played with the notion.
 MJ> Discussing it is only boring if you're not interested in how it
 MJ> might evolve and what the implications of such technology might be.

Sci Fi and Sex hasn't got anything incommon..All that is changed is that
the technology and imagination has been applied to the sex theme..It's
still the same old sex and it's not very interestning..Why not simply
create a cybersex conference and talk about it there..Sci Fi and sex doesn't
belong together...My opinion but i belive it to be a sound one...





--- GEcho 1.00
 * Origin: =:Detroit Rock City:= Stockholm, Sweden  +46-8-870055 (2:201/190)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 269 of 284
 From : Darre LuAllen                       1:3637/1        .ÿò 23 .åâ 96 09:04
 To   : Nicolai Shapero
 Subj : Re: Star Trek
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 On 02-21-96 Nicolai Shapero wrote to Darre LuAllen...

 DL> Let me begin by letting you know how much of an arrogant fool
 DL> you truly are.

 NS> AHEM!  There is a difference between declaring that an idea
 NS> is stupid and declaring that the proponent of an idea is
 NS> stupid.  The former is acceptable on this conference, the
 NS> latter is not.
 NS>
 NS> Please restrict yourself to attacks on the idea, NOT on the person.

 Nicolai,
      I'm sorry.  Truthfully, he ticked me off.  I responded.  I suppose
 I should have cooled off before responding.  I future, I will.  When I
 typed the above, I was hoping to get his attention.  I stepped over the
 line on this one.  For that, I'm sorry.  I promise to be good from now on.

                                               At your Service,
                                               Darre LuAllen

___
 * OFFLINE 1.56 * That's an amazing horse Brisco. --He's not that amazing.  Took
him two tries.

--- Maximus/2 3.01
 * Origin: Cumberland BBS -TN- V34 (1:3637/1)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 270 of 284
 From : Darre LuAllen                       1:3637/1        .ÿò 23 .åâ 96 09:15
 To   : Kay Shapero
 Subj : The Enchanted Forest Chr
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 On 02-21-96 Kay Shapero wrote to Darre LuAllen...

 KS> And speaking of irritating life forms, I'm most of the way
 KS> through my reread of Patricia Wrede's Enchanted Forest
 KS> books now that they're all collected in one place, and I
 KS> find myself noticing how much the wizards remind me of
 KS> certain politicians, and wondering what effect a carefully
 KS> applied bucket of soapy water with lemon would have on
 KS> same.  :->

 DL> How about a recommendation on these?

 KS> OK, I recommend them.  Highly.  :->  The first one in the order they

 [further comments cut to save my sysop a little cash]


 Thank you, they sound delightful.  I like picking up stories like that
 for several reasons.  First, I really like fanciful stories.  I'm a bit
 of a romantic.  Second, as a writer, I like seeing how everyone else does
 it.  Finally, I'm putting together a library for my children (assuming I
 ever get the chance to have any) before the government decides to take
 all these books from the shelves.

 Oh, and thank you for the spoiler warning.  A read it anyway, as I'm a
 very curious man.  But I do appreciate the consideration.  Yes, I agree
 with the idea of trying it on some politicians.

                                             At your Service,
                                             Darre LuAllen
                                             Recently Warned and Cowed

___
 * OFFLINE 1.56 * How much filk could a filker filk if a filker could filk filk?


--- Maximus/2 3.01
 * Origin: Cumberland BBS -TN- V34 (1:3637/1)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 271 of 284
 From : Dave Smith                          1:109/611       .ÿò 23 .åâ 96 16:39
 To   : **all S<20 +c5 S=32000
 Subj : Science Fiction & Fantasy Books (anyone read?)
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Okay, here it is.  I've read almost all of the Star Trek and Star Wars books
around, and I need to know a few things.  Also, I seem to be one of the only
people to have read the Dragon Knight series.  If anyone else has read them,
I'd like to talk to you.  Later.

Dave Smith (Dragon Knight, Smiley)

.NOTE: IceEdit 1.60 E17688
--- QuickBBS 2.80 GoldBase (Zeta-1)
 * Origin: AD Message BBS/10th Year Online! (703)241-1826 (1:109/611@FIDONET)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 272 of 284
 From : Channon Lang                        1:130/809       .ÿò 23 .åâ 96 04:38
 To   : Jon Helis
 Subj : Re: Star Trek
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE 1.11+
From a dark bottomless pit,Jon Helis screamed up to Channon Lang about
 Star Trek..

 JH> I enjoy watching DS9, but Voyager, sometimes it's good, while at
 JH> other times, outright disappointing.  This inconsistency is
 JH> slowly starting to push me away.  Unless they start coming up
 JH> with good scripts, I may write it off too.

 CL> I was concerned about DS9 for a while...and really leary about Worf
 CL> showing up there. But it seems to shaping up quite nicely. And Worf is
 CL> finding a friend in Dax...it's interesing how quickly he replaced
 CL> Deanna Troy, isn't it?

 JH> Worf's relationship with Odo is somewhat interesting, in fact,
 JH> it's beginning to look a little like Odo's relationship with
 JH> Quark.

 It seems that Odo has that effect on people. Maybe it's one of those Love
 Hate relationships....I think if it came down to the wire Odo and Quark and
 probably even Worf would give everything to save the other.

 JH> Last month, I got the chance to see Terry Farrel at a
 JH> convention.  She's a very entertaining speaker.  Seeing her
 JH> handle a 10 foot albino python was also interesting.

 Bet that was interesting....where did you get to see her?

 JH> The ghosts of Battlestar Galactica and Space 1999 still haunt me
 JH> when I see Voyager.

 CL> I really like Battlestar Galactica...but then I was a teenage with a
 CL> HUGE crush on Dirk Benedict, too...As for Space 1999, I couldn't stand


 JH> I enjoyed Galactica's first few episodes, but it did later go
 JH> down hill for me.  It's spinoff, Galactica 1980, was a major
 JH> disappointment for me.  Space:1999 during its first season had
 JH> some good stories, but the second season(which included Fred
 JH> Frieberger, the producer of Star Trek's last season, and the
 JH> introduction of a shapeshifting alien) really sucked the sewage.
 JH> I still have my 2.5 foot long Eagle One playset around here
 JH> somewhere.  I also have a toy Cylon Raider spaceship, one of the
 JH> ones that fires missiles, that were pulled from the market after
 JH> a child suffered a choking accident.

 I must say, I did like the ships in Galactica. I really thought the cylon
 ships were the epidomy of a "flying saucer".

 JH> To be young again.....

 Speak for yourself!;)

 Channon
... "What is Starbuckin?"
--- MachoEcho 0.5ñ
 * Origin: The State of Confusion * Arlington Tx * 817-274-1920 * (1:130/809)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 273 of 284
 From : Tam Phan                            1:143/362       .ÿò 23 .åâ 96 15:12
 To   : Jaimie Park
 Subj : x-files
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 On 02-15-96 Jaimie Park wrote to All...

 JP> hello, this is jaimie park and i'm calling out to all those x-philes
 JP> across the country.  i'm dying for some stimulating conversation about
 JP> the show with someone who actually knows what they're talking about.
 JP> please contact me.

     Hi.. well, I've been watching the show itself for about a year and
     half now, so I figure I at least know something about the show...
     What do you want to talk about?
---
 * OFFLINE 1.58 * To steal this tagline press <CTL> <ALT> <DEL> now.

 * Origin:  (1:143/362)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 274 of 284
 From : Tam Phan                            1:143/362       .ÿò 23 .åâ 96 15:12
 To   : Brion Lienhart
 Subj : Gen - X movie
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 On 02-22-96 Brion Lienhart wrote to Dean Sweatman...

 BL> Enh, it was ok. That was Colm Meany playing Banshee wasn't it? The
 BL> beard and different hair kind of threw me off. I haven't been paying
 BL> attention to Marvel lately, but how did the Emma Frost and Banshee end
 BL> up running Xavier's school? I know Emma was more or less reformed a
 BL> while ago (New Mutants, I think), but where was Chuck?

     Colm Meany? I don't think it was him... I don't know who it was,
     but I'm pretty sure it wasn't him.
---
 * OFFLINE 1.58 * Tagless messages just look naked somehow...
 * Origin:  (1:143/362)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 275 of 284
 From : Kay Shapero                         1:102/524       .åò 22 .åâ 96 10:51
 To   : ROBERT LIDGREN
 Subj : FILK MODERATOR
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Feb 19 23:41>, ROBERT LIDGREN (1:134/10) wrote to KAY SHAPERO:

 RL>What's the name of the FILK node?  I certainly will drop in.

That's the FILK echo, the tagname is FILK, and it can be picked up off the
backbone in Zone 1.  Hope you can join in the fun!

--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 276 of 284
 From : Kay Shapero                         1:102/524       .åò 22 .åâ 96 10:56
 To   : Judy Hayes
 Subj : Re: Help
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Feb 20 21:11>, Judy Hayes (1:154/40) wrote to Kay Shapero:

 JH>I don't have a copy handy....just have it on tape somewhere.
 JH>However, I was going to contact a friend who has simply oodles of
 JH>Filk books to get it.  After I do I'll get back to you.  <g>

Meanwhile, considering that Leslie has given permission to post her stuff to the
net anyway,  here's a copy for *everybody*!  (Just don't ask HER to sing it...
:->)

BANNED FROM ARGO
by Leslie Fish

When we pulled into Argo Port in need of R. & R.,
The crew set out investigating every joint and bar.
We had high expectations of their hospitality,
But found too late it wasn't geared for spacers such as we.

Chorus
And we're banned from Argo, everyone.
Banned from Argo just for having a little fun.
We spent a jolly shore leave there for just three days or four,
But Argo doesn't want us anymore.

The Captain's tastes were simple, but his methods were complex.
We found him with five partners, each of a different world and sex.
The Shore Police were on the way--we had no second chance.
We beamed him up in the nick of time--and the remnants of his pants.

Our Engineer would yield to none at putting down the brew;
He outdrank seven space marines and a demolition crew.
The Navigator didn't win, but he outdrank almost all,
And now they've got a shuttlecraft on the roof of City Hall.

Our proper, cool First Officer was drugged with something green,
And hauled into an alley, where he suffered things obscene.
He sobered up in Sickbay and he's none the worse for wear,
Except he's somehow taught the bridge computer how to swear.

The Head Nurse disappeared awhile in the major Dope Bazarr,
Buying an odd green potion "guaranteed to cause Pon-Farr".
She came home with no uniform and an oddly cheerful heart,
And a painful way of walking--with her feet a yard apart.

Our lady of Communications won a ship-wide bet
By getting into the planet's main communications net.
Now every time someone calls up on an Argo telescreen,
The flesh is there, but the clothes they wear are nowhere to be seen.

Our Doctor loves Humanity; his private life is quiet.
The Shore Police arrested him for inciting whores to riot.
We found him in the city jail, locked on and beamed him free--
Intact except for hickeys and six kinds of VD.

Our Helmsman loves exotic plants; the plants all love him too.
He took some down on leave with him and we wondered what they'd do,
'Til the planetary governor called and swore upon his life
That a gang of plants entwined his house and then seduced his wife!

A gang of pirates landed, and nobody seemed to care.
They stamped into the nearest bar to announce that they were there.
Half our crew was busy there, and invited them to play,
But the pirates only looked at us, and turned and ran away.

Our crew is Starfleet's finest, and our record is our pride.
And when we play we tend to leave a trail a mile wide.
We're sorry about the wreckage and the riots and the fuss;
At least we're sure that planet won't be quick forgetting us!

copyright Leslie Fish, 1977

[I believe the tune is a traditional one, but which I don't recall.]
--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 277 of 284
 From : Carson Chittom                      1:3632/65       .pä 21 .åâ 96 20:22
 To   : Kay Shapero
 Subj : Tagline?
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

-=>Happily did Kay speak thus unto Darre<=-

 KS> ... Argelfraster!

<raised eyebrow> Huh?

... Laugh, and the world laughs with you. - Snore and you sleep alone.

___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20 [NR]

--- Maximus 3.01
 * Origin: No Regrets, Clinton, MS (601)924-8247 9P-5A (1:3632/65)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 278 of 284
 From : Star Hawk                           1:362/708.6     .åò 22 .åâ 96 17:15
 To   : Flemming Norup
 Subj : elfquest
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
From my perch I saw this come out of the gravity well from Flemming Norup:

  [> Flemming Norup [> Maybe YOU could do something about the
  [> inavailability of EQ in Denmark?

     Sorry, I'm not part of the biz [I know, this is way late, but I've been
busy with other things and haven't been able to get to my mail].

                                        Star Hawk, the EchoTrickster

--- MacWoof Eval:23Dec93
 * Origin: William Bull Hedrick @ Hawk Haven's Orbital Point (1:362/708.6)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 279 of 284
 From : Ecarey                              1:101/230       .åò 22 .åâ 96 06:48
 To   : Bill Clements
 Subj : EDUCATION
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
BC>If your daughter has been diagnosed as having Attention Deficit
BC>Disorder the _ONLY_ way she is likely to be educated is through
BC>your efforts.  The "Professional Educators", I use the term under
BC>advisedment, will place her in a "Special" program where she will
BC>get a "Special Diploma" or a Certificate of Attendance rather
BC>than graduate from high school.  She then can attempt to get a
BC>General Equivalency Diploma before applying for a job, or work at
BC>menial labor for the rest of her life.  It is possible that she
BC>may qualify to work in a Sheltered Workshop and live in a group
BC>home, sponsored by the Association for Retarded Citizens, if you
BC>are not able to support her as an adult.  Private, or Home,
BC>Education can probably save your child's future.  Public
BC>Education leaves her no future at all!

BC>I am truly sorry for having to tell you this but I have seen this
BC>happen.  I wish you and your children the best.

It's not what happened to my nephew, who had ADD, attended public
schools in Houston, TX, and just this past spring graduated from
college at age 20 - two years early, for those who've lost track of
what's considered "normal".

Get your nose out of the air and get back in contact with the real
world.


BC>To remain on topic I suggest that you read 'THE HAPPY DAYS AHEAD'
BC>in 'EXPANDED UNIVERSE' (C)opyright 1980 by Robert A. Heinlein.

One of his poorest efforts ever, because, atypical for Heinlein, he
doesn't "play fair" with his premises - he just decrees that an
other-than-totally-pessimistic outlook must by definition be a
_mindlessly_ happy outlook.

In other essays collected in that same volume, he also indicates his
absolute certainty that the collapse of civiliation due to full-scale
nuclear exchange between the USA and the USSR, and that the only people
who would survive would be those who withdrew themselves from urban
centers and set up well-stocked shelters for themselves. Have you
checked out the actual geopolitical situation lately?

 * OLX 2.1 TD * Press any key to continue or any other key to quit

--- FLAME v1.0
 * Origin: Withouta Net - Drop In Anytime! - 617/846-5416 (1:101/230)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 280 of 284
 From : Anders Danebo                       2:201/190       .ÿò 23 .åâ 96 07:12
 To   : Bianca Wesslak
 Subj : Cybersex
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

-=> Quoting Bianca Wesslak to Anders Danebo <=-

 BW> And pray tell me just what is serious Science
 BW> Fiction????????.............. To you what may be serious Sci-Fi, may
 BW> very well to others be fun and games. Also to you talking about sex may
 BW> be boring and uninteresting, that's your perogative, but to others it
 BW> may very well be something completely different. ANd as to your comment
 BW> no one can get serious when sex is involved, WHy???]

Sex always invites a kind of childishness that almost always gets out
of hand and ends good discussions...Only my opinion but why speak about
sex when you can do it instead...Right or Wrong??


... Air Geordis . TNG Footwear
--- GEcho 1.00
 * Origin: =:Detroit Rock City:= Stockholm, Sweden  +46-8-870055 (2:201/190)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 281 of 284
 From : Dean Sweatman                       1:396/40        .óá 24 .åâ 96 13:22
 To   : All
 Subj : CRESCENT CITY CON XI
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: InterEcho 1.12 6E010867
 * Originally By: Cccxi@aol.com
 * Originally To: Dean Sweatman
 * Originally Re: CRESCENT CITY CON XI
 * Original Date: 02-24-96  05:30
 * Original Area: i.uucp.email
 * Forwarded by : Blue Wave/DOS v2.20

From: CCCXI@aol.com
To: JHABER@ocean.st.usm.edu, jacobs@beta.loyno.edu, DianeY1003@aol.com, Date:
Sat, 24 Feb 1996 12:30:49 -0500 Subject: CRESCENT CITY CON XI

                                                   Greetings one and all. This
is an official notification to let everyone know that CCC XI is online . We've
joined the electronic age and can be reached via e-mail at

                                    CCC XI @aol.com

The dates have been set for the Con...August 2,3,4 at the Quality Hotel and
CONvention Center in Metairie.(same location as last year-they asked us to come
back.) Julie Austin is hard at work trying to confirm our guests (don't want to
mention names yet-hate cons that list INVITED guests.) Staff is currently being
assembled and the first meeting is scheduled for march 16, at 6:00p.m. at
robert's house. Please, if you're interested in attending, call me at
504-488-0489 and confirm as the house is small and fills up easily.the WORD has
been given-please start spreading the word.
                                                                     ROBERT L.
NEAGLE

                                                                     CHAIRMAN
CCC XI


... Dean Sweatman's Continuing and Relentless quest toward Fuggheadedness

___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20 [NR]


--- InterEcho 1.12
 * Origin: REUNION BBS, Harahan, La., USA (504) 738-5162 Try God (1:396/40)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 282 of 284
 From : Jeroen Jacobs                       2:292/506.26    .åò 22 .åâ 96 12:31
 To   : Anders Danebo
 Subj : Hello !
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Yow Anders !! Where the hell are you ??

Zaterdag Februari 17 1996 20:54, Anders Danebo schreef naar Jeroen Jacobs:

 JJ>> And these are my favorite SF-series:

 JJ>> - the X files.
 JJ>> - Star Trek : Deep Space 9
 JJ>> - Star Trek : The Next Generation
 JJ>> - Star Trek : Voyager
 JJ>> - The Outer Limits

 AD> You must be my twin or my twin soul...Exactly my faves..

Twin ??.....cool !!

I forgot one : Twin peaks (I consider it SF).

Does anybody know about a confrontation VOYAGER <-> BORG ??



Greetings from The Prince of Darkness,

                                        Jeroen

                                   -[PGP_ID=1F7602ED]-


...I am Zsa Zsa of Borg. Prepare to be assimilated dahling.

--- FMail/386 1.0g
 * Origin: 2:292/506.26  (2:292/506.26)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 283 of 284
 From : Jeroen Jacobs                       2:292/506.26    .åò 22 .åâ 96 12:41
 To   : All
 Subj : 'bugs' in ST: Generations
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Yow All !! Where the hell are you ??

recently: I sawa list with the mistakes in Star Trek : generations. Here it
comes:

-Soran hits Lursa's head and she starts bleeding....red blood. In 'the
undiscovered country' however,klingons have purple blood.

-When Picard request 'exchange of hostages' they say that Picard has to be
beamed to their ship first, en then they will beam him to Veridian III .When
Picard lands on Veridian III , we see a federation transporter beam in stead of
a klingon one.

-Veridian III : a 'western'-image of Kirk with black pants -> Kirk's pants are
supposed to have red line on the sides, which are missing in this scene.

-The klingons are getting de shield frequency of the Enterprise .Riker is
seeking desperate solutions. Why didn't he changed the shield-frequency like he
did in 'The best of both worlds' ??

If somebody has found other mistakes (not necessarely in 'generations'), please
let me know.

Greetings from The Prince of Darkness,

                                        Jeroen

                                   -[PGP_ID=1F7602ED]-


...We have engaged the Borg. The wedding will be Friday.

--- FMail/386 1.0g
 * Origin: 2:292/506.26  (2:292/506.26)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 284 of 284
 From : Samantha Smartt                     1:124/8107      .óá 24 .åâ 96 11:09
 To   : Darre LuAllen
 Subj : The Enchanted Forest Chr
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

DL> stories like that for several reasons.  First, I really
DL> like fanciful stories.  I'm a bit   of a romantic.  Second,

You'll love the Wrede work. And how about Pamela Dean, too?
Latest is THE DUBIOUS HILLS.  I also discovered C. Dale Brittain-- the first two
books about A BAD SPELL IN YURT and THE WOOD NYMPH AND THE CRANKY SAINT.  Very
accessible but still with the sense of the fantastic.  You have, I trust,
already read Tolkien and Lewis?

DL> as a writer, I like seeing how everyone else does    it.

Oh, then have you tried the writing echoes?  There's PROWRITE for the contracts
and business end, and there's NON-FICTION for the article writers, but I like to
lurk on WRITING.  It has a lot of chat and some of it can be skipped, but
overall I enjoy it and have learned a lot.  Maybe someday I will post on it.
Also there's poetry echoes and a fun one called BARDROOM for writers to just
talk.

Of course you'll stay here first too.  :)

DL> Finally, I'm putting together a library for my children
DL> (assuming I   ever get the chance to have any) before the
DL> government decides to take    all these books from the
DL> shelves.

Really!  Isn't it absurd.  They've already taken off all the Mark Twain here,
because "HUCK FINN is racist (!) and the one about the prince is sexist."  They
have no sense of irony or concept of satire or sarcasm.  They take things too
literally.  Or they haven't read it at all and are just trolling for something
to jump on (which is what I think!)  Oops, off topic.  I think they also banned
some SF novels as "too adult."  (!??)

--- timEd-A10b
 * Origin:       Palindrome WriterNet 214-437-2734      (1:124/8107)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 1 of 195
 From : Tommy Kellerman                     2:205/356       .òp 20 .åâ 96 22:41
 To   : Frank Glover
 Subj : BS!!
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
In a message dated 18-Feb-96 12:38:01, Frank Glover wrote:

TK>  Ever seen the movie "Dune"? The Harkonnens are crueller than any
TK>  humans I've
TK>  seen in fiction, installing "heart plugs" and so on...

 FG>    I've seen the movie, but I'm not otherwise familiar with the Dune
 FG> universe. However, my understanding is that they *are* descended from
 FG> Earth humans. And those implants were done intentionally to one's self,
 FG> for some reason....

Well, they were implanted to give the Harkonnens power over their people.
Do you know if there's a sequel, or is that too much hoping for?


/// -Tommy K.- \\\  * Going cruising on thursday, YAAAHOOOOO ! *

--- Xenolink 1.0 Z.3, EmacsXL.4
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Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 2 of 195
 From : Tommy Kellerman                     2:205/356       .òp 20 .åâ 96 22:43
 To   : Frank Glover
 Subj : Re: clarification
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
In a message dated 18-Feb-96 12:44:02, Frank Glover wrote:

TK>  Sorry for interrupting but, SF FOLKSONGS ???
TK>
TK>  Tell me all about it! (Can't access it from Sweden)

 FG>    Yep! There are aplenty! I don't know how common SF conventions ae  in
 FG> Europe, but if you have occasion to go to one, there will almost  always
 FG> be an area and/or panel discussion devoted to filking.

So, what do they discuss? I mean, we're talking SF folk-songs here !!

Sounds weird...


/// -Tommy K.- \\\

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Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 3 of 195
 From : Tommy Kellerman                     2:205/356       .òp 20 .åâ 96 22:59
 To   : Frank Glover
 Subj : Re: Alien threats?
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
In a message dated 18-Feb-96 14:02:05, Frank Glover wrote:

TK>   FG>   Or a *potential* threat.
TK>
TK>  With OUR technology? Our greatest weapon is the will to live, or
TK>  survive (IMHO).

 FG>    Evolution favors a `will to live' in virtually all species, really.
 FG> But by potential threat, I mean what we will *eventually* be able to  do.
 FG> ("Commander Xartech, they already possess thermonuclear weapons,  and
 FG> speculate on wormholes, tachyons and nanotechnology. We must  destroy them
 FG> before they develop [technology unknown to us].") This was  the premise
 FG> behind `The Day The Earth Stood Still,' ("Do what you want  at home, but
 FG> clean up your act before you come out here, or expect more  robots.') and
 FG> 2001: A Space Odyssey ("These pre-humans have potential.  Let's leave a
 FG> beacon on their Moon, and by the time they are able to  get there and dig
 FG> it up, they'll be worth another look.").

When seeing those movies, it really didn't occur to me, until now...

TK>   FG>    Their reply may be; "So what?"
TK>
TK>  Well yes, but in that case, why wait?

 FG>    And that goes back to:

 FG>    A: There's no one out there at all (or *exceedingly* few and far
 FG> between)

But maybe with an adequate tech level to travel at great distances,
maybe just to make contact, or surveying the planet(s).

 FG>    B: Someone's out there, but we just haven't been found yet.

Oh, yes. But maybe we'll find them first.

 FG>    C: Someone's out there, knows we're here, but have no hostile
 FG> intentions, and no desire to show themselves as yet. (which may or may
 FG> not have anything to do with ufo's)

If this is it, the UFO phenomenon is yet to be explained.

 FG>    Someone out there who knew we were here, *with* hostile intentions
 FG> would almost certainly have taken some open action by now. (Of course  we
 FG> could get into ideas about subtle, covert takeovers, but for now I  think
 FG> that's *truly* crossing the paranoia line.)

Agree.

TK>   FG> guys.' However, I also never believed the argument that violent,
TK>
TK>   FG> aggressive races will destroy themselves before acheiving
TK>  interstellar travel, either.
TK>
TK>  Why not? Civilisations could destroy themselves very easily, like if
TK>  some
TK>  germ (produced) or some weapon would go "haywire".

 FG>    But accidents can happen even to non-hostile races. It doesn't even
 FG> have to involve weapons. Nanotecnological `gray-goo' scenarios, or the
 FG> Trek episode `Miri' where what was meant to be a life-extension
 FG> experiment got away, causing very long childhoods, then dropping dead  at
 FG> puberty.

Sorry, haven't seen it. No ST episodes are currently on Swedish TV.
And I haven't heard about the "gray-goo"-scenarios. Please explain.

 FG>    Against such possibilites, expansion to other worlds (starting
 FG> withone's own solar system, then beyond) becomes important so that  one's
 FG> species survives, even if the homeworld becomes uninhabitable.

Yep, but I doubt I'll live to see it. Shame, because I want to. ;)

 FG>    But as you say, I truly do hope and expect that our first contacts
 FG> will be peaceful ones.

Yep.


/// -Tommy K.- \\\

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Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 4 of 195
 From : Tommy Kellerman                     2:205/356       .òp 20 .åâ 96 23:17
 To   : Mark Jones
 Subj : UFO
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
In a message dated 16-Feb-96 00:37:47, Mark Jones wrote:

 MJ>    "Some UFOs are actually starships from other worlds" is an
 MJ> unfalsifiable assertion.  There is no way to disprove it.  No matter
 MJ> how many UFOs are determined to be weather balloons, swamp gas,
 MJ> ordinary aircraft or weather phenomena, the proponents of this theory
 MJ> can always say that others *are* the real thing.
 MJ>    It's a useless (and unscientific) position.

I see your point.

 MJ>    On the other hand, the claim that "NO UFOs are actually starships
 MJ> from other worlds" is easily falsified simply by providing proof of
 MJ> *one* instance in which such a vessel turns up.  But so far, the
 MJ> evidence is underwhelming.

Yep! Guess we'll just have to wait.

 MJ>    There may or may not be alien civilizations.  They may or may not
 MJ> be more advanced than we.  And they may or may not be visiting us.
 MJ> But until we have real, tangible proof of this, I'll continue to
 MJ> believe that UFOs are adequately explained by mundane occurences.

Well Mark, please do, but I do hope you understand my position as well.

When I saw this... well let's call it a UFO for now, shall we?
Well, anyways, I wasn't under any kind of influence, and I saw the UFO for about
30 mins, before I lost it and ran home and made my mother watch it as well. It
felt awkward when I first laid eyes on it to be the only witness, so
it felt good when my mother saw it as well. At least, I knew then that I wasn't
going bananas...!

And frankly, if it wasn't a UFO, well, then I don't know what the f--k I DID
see, but it wasn't from my neighborhood, I can tell you that.

So you get all excited and tell your friends (the ones you trust, and trust you,
who don't try to make fun of you all the time) and starts shaking
just because of the experience. Nothing quite like it. You can't even compare
it to sex, but of course, they're two different things!

I understand that you're a sceptic, and I know you won't change until proven
otherwise, but imagine how it felt when I, who always believed that "there must
be something out there" suddenly discovered that " I was right! ".
Such a sensation... I hope you'll experience it someday.

MY ony tangible proof is my memory, and my mind, which I'm not out of.


Sincerely,


/// -Tommy K.- \\\

--- Xenolink 1.0 Z.3, EmacsXL.4
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Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 5 of 195
 From : Steve Thomas                        1:279/27        .óá 24 .åâ 96 22:31
 To   : Elizabeth H. Penrose
 Subj : Not to be seen
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
The lines I liked the best were:

"It was the middle (bush) one!"

           and

"And this was the neighbor who told us where they (neighbors) were!"

 But my favorite skit is the 127th Annual Twit of the Year Best in Show.

"And Nigel has run himself over...What a great twit!"

                                   --Steve

--- PCBoard (R) v15.22/M 2
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Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 6 of 195
 From : Steve Thomas                        1:279/27        .óá 24 .åâ 96 22:40
 To   : All
 Subj : Marcon 31
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Anyone going to Marcon 31 in Columbus, Ohio May 3,4 and 5?

                             --Steve

--- PCBoard (R) v15.22/M 2
 * Origin: <<*> Blue Powder <*>> þ St. Albans, WV þ 304-727-6733 (1:279/27)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 7 of 195
 From : Nicolai Shapero                     1:102/524       .óá 24 .åâ 96 05:44
 To   : Anders Danebo
 Subj : Cybersex
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Feb 21 17:21>, Anders Danebo (2:201/190) wrote to Mark Jones:

 AD>theme..It's
 AD>still the same old sex and it's not very interestning..Why not
 AD>simply
 AD>create a cybersex conference and talk about it there..Sci Fi and
 AD>sex doesn't
 AD>belong together...My opinion but i belive it to be a sound one...

"We're here to protect democracy, not to practice it."  Your opinion regarding
what is and is not off-topic may be considered, but it is an opinion that means
much less than that of the moderator, who regards the subject as "on topic"
(within broad limits).

-- Nicolai Shapero, Moderator of the SFFAN echo

--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 8 of 195
 From : Kay Shapero                         1:102/524       .óá 24 .åâ 96 11:01
 To   : JOHN ROSS
 Subj : Re: Help
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Feb 22 09:33>, JOHN ROSS (1:116/1977@fidonet) wrote to JUDY HAYES:

 JR>Thanks ,Kay said that she sent me one and I'll see if it shows up
 JR>in the next week or so.Thanks again

With Leslie's permission, I just posted it to the echo at large, so if you don't
see the copy I sent you, you may find it here.

--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 9 of 195
 From : Kay Shapero                         1:102/524       .óá 24 .åâ 96 11:02
 To   : Anders Danebo
 Subj : Cybersex
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Feb 21 17:21>, Anders Danebo (2:201/190) wrote to Mark Jones:

 AD>Sci Fi and Sex hasn't got anything incommon..All that is changed
 AD>is that the technology and imagination has been applied to the sex
 AD>theme..It's still the same old sex and it's not very interestning.

Ever read Ursula K. Leguin's _The Left Hand Of Darkness_?  Or for that matter,
some of Philip Jose Farmer's stuff.  There's a heck of a lot more to this topic
than you think.

--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 10 of 195
 From : Mark Jones                          1:105/302.47    .pä 21 .åâ 96 23:23
 To   : Jon Helis
 Subj : Cybersex
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On (14 Feb 96) Jon Helis wrote to Barton Paul Levenson...

 JH> The 1973 Michael Crichton film "Westworld" dealt with this issue
 JH> in a very interesting way.
 JH>
 JH> Anyone who's seen it care to discuss it?

Sure.  My main complaint with the idea (android sex partners) is
actually the same complaint I have with *most* depictions of androids
and robots in fiction.  You can't convince me that something with
access hatches and little "doors" for repairs and maintenance is going
to look (or feel!) like real human flesh.  Especially when it uses
pulleys and gears to move its limbs.

It seems to me that anything intended to simulate human appearance,
motion and feel is going to have to be designed very much like a
human.  Which means:  artificial muscles over synthetic bones--not
metallic frameworks with a plastic "skin" molded around them.

So you'd end up with cybernetic limbs or robots that have a very human
skeletal structure (albeit metal or plastic or ceramic) overlaid by a
very human musculature beneath a flexible "skin" with no rigid access
hatches or ports.  Any repairs would probably require *cutting* into
the skin and muscle, just like repairs on humans--and then replacing
or sealing the openings afterward.

This assumes that the cybernetic limb or robot is supposed to pass for
a human under normal social (or sexual) circumstances.  If it need
only pass for human at a distance, or is out of reach (like Disneyland
animatronics), then obviously you can lower your standards.

Steve Austin's bionic limbs and Commander Data's android body can
*either* be quite obviously artificial--including the easy-open
ports--or they can be realistic enough for close contact without being
detectable.  But not both.

--- PPoint 1.78
 * Origin: Folcroft Sanitarium (hsmith@cure.com) (1:105/302.47)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 11 of 195
 From : Mark Jones                          1:105/302.47    .pä 21 .åâ 96 23:36
 To   : ROBERT LIDGREN
 Subj : TERAFORMING
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On (19 Feb 96) ROBERT LIDGREN wrote to ALL...

 RL> Here's a question for readers of SF out there. Have you read any
 RL> good books or short stories containing the process of
 RL> TERRAFORMING? The process was used in a Star Trek movie but I
 RL> want to explore the idea further in fiction.

No specific recommendations, but check out the "hard" SF
writers--especially Poul Anderson, Hal Clement, Larry Niven, etc.


--- PPoint 1.78
 * Origin: Folcroft Sanitarium (hsmith@cure.com) (1:105/302.47)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 12 of 195
 From : Aaron Turon                         1:137/2         .óá 24 .åâ 96 06:48
 To   : Barton Paul Levenson
 Subj : What I want to talk about
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
I'd like to talk about STAR TREK Cya! ;)


--- Opus-CBCS 1.73a
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Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 13 of 195
 From : Frank Swarbrick                     1:104/825       .ÿò 23 .åâ 96 23:46
 To   : All
 Subj : X-Files: Pusher!!
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12  92-0022
What an awesome episode!!  We expect that the conspiracy arc episodes
are going to be great, but when an episode like "Pusher" airs it just
renews hope for the entire show.  Now, unlike some people, I haven't
really been down on season three.  It's had some really good episodes.
But this one seemed extra special for some reason.

I loved the fact that Scully and Mulder we're really partners on this
show.  So often one or the other is off on their own little tangent.
But on this one they were together almost the whole time.  And the
UST!  Sheesh!  They really love teasing us.  Eyes, eyes, and then
hands.  Yow!

I also have a special love for episodes when they work with other
agents and parts of the bureau, and "Pusher" had plenty of that.  Not
to mention Skinner.  (Who should be back in the hospital after what
happened to him. <g>  How'd he get out so fast?)

Not to mention the bad guy.  Absolutely menacing.  He reminded me some
of the guy in "2Shy," but this one was much better.

Well, there was a lot more that was great about it as well, but I'm a
terrible reviewer so I'll have to stop now.  But suffice it to say,
The X-Files still has what it takes!  It had it's faults, sure, but
enough people talk about those, so I'll leave you to it.

        Frank

... I Want To Believe -- The X-Files
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12
 * Origin: The Bailey Information Exchange BBS, 28.8k v.fc  (1:104/825.0)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 14 of 195
 From : Oai Luong                           1:109/611       .cê 25 .åâ 96 17:25
 To   : Barton Paul Levenson
 Subj : Re: Star Trek
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 BP>> I don't remember sending the message you cite, though I'm glad to
 BP>> have your opinion.


       Well I was reading messages and I saw what you guys where saying so I
decided to join in.

Oai Luong

.NOTE: IceEdit 1.60 E17688
--- QuickBBS 2.80 GoldBase (Zeta-1)
 * Origin: AD Message BBS/10th Year Online! (703)241-1826 (1:109/611@FIDONET)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 15 of 195
 From : Don Bach                            1:3632/65       .óá 24 .åâ 96 18:12
 To   : Phill Ash
 Subj : STAR TREK SEXISM
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
I'm not sure how this evolved under the indicated subject line, but here
goes....

 BPL> Consider the upper classes in the Roman Republic
 BPL> and the early Empire.
 BPL> Generally two parents, plus professional tutors,
 BPL> servants and slaves.

 PA>         The upper-class, yes.  But have you noticed that remarkably
 PA>         little is heard of middle & lower-class Romans...

No middle class - that is a product of the Industrial Revolution.  The lower
class *IS* the servants and slaves.

 PA>         ... the Roman Empire
 PA>         poisoned its collective self by running all of their cities'
 PA>         irrigation through LEAD PIPES!!!

We are just now learning from history.  There are many lead pipes carrying
domestic water in the U.S.  There is also a lot of lead-based solder used on
other metal piping.  Copper is also a dangerous element.

EPA is currently requiring in-home testing of copper and lead levels to
determine the current level of danger.

A utopian future (ala ST) has us learning from our past mistakes.  We certainly
aren't doing it presently.

Don

--- Maximus 3.01
 * Origin: No Regrets, Clinton, MS (601)924-8247 9P-5A (1:3632/65)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 16 of 195
 From : Owen E. Oulton                      1:243/45        .cê 25 .åâ 96 02:12
 To   : Brion Lienhart
 Subj : Gen - X movie
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 BL> Enh, it was ok. That was Colm Meany playing Banshee
 BL> wasn't it? The beard and different hair kind of threw
 BL> me off.

Colm Meany?  No, this guy was younger, skinnier, and had a much heavier accent.
The name of the actor is Jeremy Ratchford.

CFN, O

--- Maximus 2.01wb
 * Origin: Pandora's Box, Ottawa, Ont. 613-829-1209 (1:243/45)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 17 of 195
 From : Pavel Viaznikov                     2:5020/185.9    .cê 25 .åâ 96 01:10
 To   : Frank Glover
 Subj : Alien threats?
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.RFC-Path:
apex!apexua!f200.n464!f400.n5020!f35.n5020!f144.n5020!f269.n5020!f185.n5020!not-
for-mail
Good day/night/mornung/etc., Frank!

Sunday February 18 1996 14:02, Frank Glover wrote to Tommy Kellerman:

 FG>    Evolution favors a `will to live' in virtually all species, really.

- With certain reservations: like when at times a switch clicks and voila! you
have lemmings and whales marching into death.

 FG> But by potential threat, I mean what we will *eventually* be able to  do.
 FG> ("Commander Xartech, they already possess thermonuclear weapons,
 FG> and speculate on wormholes, tachyons and nanotechnology. We must  destroy
 FG> them before they develop [technology unknown to us].") This was  the

- That's right. Let anybody imagine what *our* race (represented by politicians
and the military) would do if we once found out a, say, big ant-hill with them
ants assembling a Polaris of their own?

 FG>    Someone out there who knew we were here, *with* hostile intentions
 FG> would almost certainly have taken some open action by now. (Of course  we
 FG> could get into ideas about subtle, covert takeovers, but for now I  think
 FG> that's *truly* crossing the paranoia line.)

- Remember the short story titled "Okkam's scalpel"? A clever specialist in
medical dummies there made an imitation body of an alien, to prove to a #1 Boss
that Earth is being slowly de-terraformed in order to make it suitable for the
extraterrestials (from human point of view, polluted). Later, the dummy-maker
and his brother start thinking that their version could after all be true.
So there are such ideas, and they *are* paranoid, but that's what a SF writer
needs for an interesting story!

 FG> But as you say, I truly do hope and expect that our first contacts  will
 FG> FG> be peaceful ones.

- I also hope so - on the other hand, even the very best intentions of those
alien beings could finally result in serious troubles for us. History shows
that
when different civilizations made a contact, it usually led to assimilation or
destruction of a weaker (not necessarily inferior) culture. Also - do you
remember the Cold War? The USSR hoped to impose socialism onto the whole world,
and not everybody enjoyed the idea. But believe me, the bigger part of the
Soviet people believed that socialism is better... no, they believed that
capitalism is worse than socialism, even though they could see drawbacks of our
(socialist) system. So they meant good. Now, suppose your aliens want to
improve
our society as *they* think would be good for us. No hostile intentions - only
kind fraternal help. Would you gladly and willingly accept that help? Or would
you consider such help as a threat to us?

                            Best regards,
                                           Pavel.

--- ifmail v.2.8
 * Origin: - De: Spiritus vini, tinctura aqua 40% (2:5020/185.9)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 18 of 195
 From : Bill Clements                       1:18/230        .óá 24 .åâ 96 02:14
 To   : Robert Lidgren
 Subj : TERAFORMING
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
From the desk of a cynical old man...

On (19 Feb 96) ROBERT LIDGREN wrote to ALL...

 RL> Here's a question for readers of SF out there. Have you
 RL> read any good books or short stories containing the process
 RL> of TERRAFORMING?

'SURFACE ACTION' (C)opyright 1990 by David Drake touches briefly
on the mechanics and then deals with living in the resultant
environment. 'THE JUNGLE' (C)opyright 1991 by David Drake is the
sequel; no terraforming but lots of action. The theme of these
two works is that of water-world of Venus, circa 1940's Science
Fiction.

I believe that there is mention of "Packet Seeder Probes" in the
chronicle of the society known as the State in:

'A WORLD OUT OF TIME' (C)opyright 1976 by Larry Niven
'THE INTEGRAL TREES' (C)opyright 1983 by Larry Niven
'THE SMOKE RING' (C)opyright 1987 by Larry Niven

but no real detail of the process of terraforming.

I hope this helps; it's all that comes to mind at the moment.

"An elephant: A mouse built to government specifications." --LL
--- LazarusTags  / QWK

--- FLAME v1.1
 * Origin: ANCESTRY TBBS Shadows of forgotten ancestors 941-382-9061 (1:18/230)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 19 of 195
 From : Anders Danebo                       2:201/190       .cê 25 .åâ 96 08:21
 To   : Frank Swarbrick
 Subj : Hello !
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

-=> Quoting Frank Swarbrick to Anders Danebo <=-

 JJ> - the X files.
 JJ> - Star Trek : Deep Space 9
 JJ> - Star Trek : The Next Generation
 JJ> - Star Trek : Voyager
 JJ> - The Outer Limits

 FS> What, no Babylon 5?

B5 is a natural choice...And it sure comes up in the top 2..
My personal list is

       The X Files
       Star Trek : The Next Generation
       Babylon 5
       Star Trek : Deep Space 9
       Star Trek : Voyager
       The Outer Limits...

That's my personal faves...



... "Energize!" said Picard and the pink bunny appeared...
--- GEcho 1.00
 * Origin: =:Detroit Rock City:= Stockholm, Sweden  +46-8-870055 (2:201/190)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 20 of 195
 From : Edward Spindle                      1:363/1701      .óá 24 .åâ 96 23:01
 To   : Nicolai Shapero
 Subj : Re: Legacy of the Ancients- by Electronic Arts
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
I realize that! But Im desperate to find this game!!!!
                                    o.k.
                                 ed s

... A mouse is an elephant built in Japan.
--- QuickBBS 2.80 (Zeta-1)
 * Origin: NCC-1701 - Orlando, FL   407-380-1701 (1:363/1701)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 21 of 195
 From : Ken Mayes                           1:393/7         .îí 26 .åâ 96 11:00
 To   : Mark Jones
 Subj : Re: Star Trek
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On Tue 20-Feb-1996 11:10p, Mark Jones said to Kim Wheat:

MJ>    And all of them COULD be.  Except that They (Paramount, the
MJ> producers, everyone) is terrified of making any real or lasting
MJ> changes to The Cash Cow.  No threat--no matter how ominous--will
MJ> endure for longer than two episodes, tops.  And all will revert to
MJ> status quo by the end of the last episode.
MJ>    Sure, the Klingons broke the peace treaty.  Great episode.  What's
MJ> happened since then?  Not a **** thing worth mentioning.
MJ>    The Dominion had agents in place on Earth.  The Feds whipped them
MJ> in two episodes (including travel time).  Yawn.


        Wrong. I wonder if you've truly watched the series. The Dominion threat
to Earth has been brewing and building momentum for nearly three seasons now.
The Klingons are spoiling for a fight encroaching on the Cardasian and Bajoran
boarders (the last episode with the Klingons building a super mine field around
the Bajoran system was great).
        And as far as the Feds whipping the butts of the Dominion on Earth, bull
pucky. The Feds never even laid a hand on those agents. In fact the main thrust
of the episode was the agents only indirectly influencing the Feds to shoot
themselves in the foot through fear. It worked pretty good, a Star Fleet Admiral
fell from grace, a conspiracy within the academy was exposed, and the true
vulnerability of the Federation was highlighted.
        The episode also attacked some serious issues concerning personal
freedom and liberty weighed against the security of the State which apparently
went over your head.
        And most importantly at the end of the episode, the shape-shifting
agents are STILL THERE, hiding away somewhere on the planet still stirring up
business. In fact in one very important scene one of them contacts Sisko and
taunts him by saying that there were only four of them on Earth and "Look at all
the mayhem and confusion they had wrought." Granted, he could have delivering
disinformation, but the mayhem and confusion was real enough.
        I'd suggest that you take a closer look at the episodes in question. DS9
is NOTHING like it was during the first season. Too many lasting changes have
been made to the setting, not the least of which is the coup on Cardassia which
replaced the formerly hostile government there with a more peaceful friendly
one. I utterly fail to comprehend your argument concerning lack of permanent
change in the show when it abounds if you look for it...something you obviously
haven't done.



--- CNet/3
 * Origin: The Bard's Tavern Denton, TX (817)243-5110 USR 28.8   (1:393/7)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 22 of 195
 From : Kay Shapero                         1:102/524       .cê 25 .åâ 96 15:38
 To   : Carson Chittom
 Subj : Tagline?
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Feb 21 20:22>, Carson Chittom (1:3632/65) wrote to Kay Shapero:

 KS> ... Argelfraster!

 CC><raised eyebrow> Huh?

From Patricia Wrede's Enchanted Forest novels (Talking With Dragons, etc.)  Less
messy substitute for soapy water with lemon if you want to melt wizards.

--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 23 of 195
 From : Elizabeth H. Penrose                1:129/26        .cê 25 .åâ 96 15:15
 To   : Anders Danebo
 Subj : Cybersex
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Sex, though not cybersex, treated in an adult manner:  Silverburg, _The World
Inside._  (It's hearsay on my part; I've never read it.)

--- Maximus 3.01
 * Origin: SoundingBoard, Pittsburgh PA (1:129/26)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 24 of 195
 From : Todd Sullivan                       1:202/720.3     .îí 26 .åâ 96 20:27
 To   : Barton Paul Levenson
 Subj : Cyber-Oopsies
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Jon Helis was kicking back and telling sea stories until Inspector General
Barton Paul Levenson walked in and said, "Knock off with that Cybersex and get
back to work!"  There was no choice but to shoot Barton.

 BPL> I liked Westworld, though I think the premise was pretty silly.  A
 BPL> robot with serious problems is much more likely not to work at all
 BPL> than to work dangerously.

I look at Westworld as an example of *serious* software glitches. Considering
just how complex the programming was, and the problems there were, it was
inevitable.

Something along the lines of ST:TNG's Moriarty.

Todd Sullivan

... "Computer, open this hatch or I'll take an axe to your memory."

-*- ASTG 1.9

--- Spot 1.3a Unregistered
 * Origin: Todd's Spot in the Continuum (1:202/720.3)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 25 of 195
 From : Todd Sullivan                       1:202/720.3     .îí 26 .åâ 96 20:30
 To   : Kay Shapero
 Subj : Fan/fanatic/fancier
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Bill Clements was kicking back and telling sea stories until Inspector General
Kay Shapero walked in and said, "Knock off with that Fan/fanatic/fancier and get
back to work!"  There was no choice but to shoot Kay.

 KS> On <Feb 21 20:19>, Bill Clements (1:18/230) wrote to All:

 BC>> fan (fan) n. (Slang)  a devoted admirer  [abbrev. of fanatic].

 BC>> fa-nat-ic (fa-nat'-ik) n.  a person inspired with excessive and
 BC>> bigoted enthusiasm, esp. a religious zealot; devotee; a. over-
 BC>> enthusiastic; immoderatly zealous.  -al  a.  -ally  adv.
 BC>> fanaticism n. violent enthusiasm [L. fanum, a temple].

 KS> Frankly I've always doubted that derivation, Webster notwithstanding.
 KS> I'm not so sure it doesn't really derive from "fancy" as per "following
 KS> the fancy", a Regency era term for those with an interest in pugilistic
 KS> displays, or "pigeon fancier" for someone who raises and shows prize
 KS> pigeons.  It would be easy enough to shorten "fancier" to "fan", and
 KS> form a closer match to the current usage.

Come on, Kay; you've been to a convention or two, haven't you?

You see both kinds, plus the *really* wierd ones, if you get my drift.

Ook, ook, drool. <snicker>

Todd Sullivan

... "He who excuses himself accuses himself." --Gabriel Meurier

-*- ASTG 1.9

--- Spot 1.3a Unregistered
 * Origin: Todd's Spot in the Continuum (1:202/720.3)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 26 of 195
 From : Todd Sullivan                       1:202/720.3     .îí 26 .åâ 96 20:35
 To   : Steve Thomas
 Subj : Not to be seen:  Albatross!
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Elizabeth H. Penrose was kicking back and telling sea stories until Inspector
General Steve Thomas walked in and said, "Knock off with that Not to be seen and
get back to work!"  There was no choice but to shoot Steve.

 ST> The lines I liked the best were:

 ST> "It was the middle (bush) one!"
 ST>            and
 ST> "And this was the neighbor who told us where they (neighbors) were!"
 ST>  But my favorite skit is the 127th Annual Twit of the Year Best in
 ST> Show.
 ST> "And Nigel has run himself over...What a great twit!"

I'm still partial to, "Look matey; this bird wouldn't `VOOM!' if I ran four
thousand volts through it!"

and

"Shut up, you bitch; it was only a bit of fun!"

Todd Sullivan

... "What is a friend?  A soul dwelling in two bodies." --Aristotle

-*- ASTG 1.9

--- Spot 1.3a Unregistered
 * Origin: Todd's Spot in the Continuum (1:202/720.3)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 27 of 195
 From : Phill Ash                           1:275/160       .pä 28 .åâ 96 08:50
 To   : Don Bach
 Subj : STAR TREK SEXISM
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE 1.11+

 PA>         The upper-class, yes.  But have you noticed that remarkably
 PA>         little is heard of middle & lower-class Romans...

 DB> No middle class - that is a product of the Industrial Revolution.  The
 DB> lower class *IS* the servants and slaves.

        Nah...that's just what the historians want you to believe.  The
        Industrial Revolution *bloated* the middle-class, but during the
        days of the Roman Empire, somebody was in the middle <G>


Your pal:  PhlAsh
---
 þ Ùystertags v1.1 þ In a dark horse town, in the middle of the west
~~~ ReneWave v1.01 [NR]
--- Smile :)
 * Origin: * The Beast's Lair * (804)498-3070 * Va Beach VA * (1:275/160)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 28 of 195
 From : Jim May                             1:251/9         .òp 27 .åâ 96 19:26
 To   : CHRIS OGNIBEN
 Subj : Re: Star Trek Generations
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 -=> Quoting Chris Ogniben to Jim May <=-

 CO> EP story?  Exactlly what does EP mean, perhaps i could write the
 CO> story, if it's something that i am familiar with.  Since i am a sci fi
 CO> writer.

 EP stands for "Electronic Publishing", and is another media for
 presenting text. An EP program usually produces an executable file
 with a reader all set with your text. Some varieties can support
 graphics as well. The simpler ones merely create the executable
 file with the reader.

 I have a number of EP utilities and electronic books here on
 Programmer's Corner, and I will allways welcome contributions in
 the way of stories and articles that I can either display on-line
 or offer for download as text or complete books.

 I also offer a good selection of articles, files, and echos for the
 writing people.

 (Sorry - I think this is getting off topic here -- netmail me at
 1:251/9 if you wish to continue - or we could move it over to the
 Writing echo.)

 -Jim


... Put on a pot of coffee, I've got messages to read!
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

--- EzyQwk V1.10 01fa00fa
 * Origin: Programmer's Corner BBS, Halifax, NS(v32b/v42b) (1:251/9)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 29 of 195
 From : Kim Wheat                           1:275/102       .òp 27 .åâ 96 19:27
 To   : Chris Ogniben
 Subj : Star Trek
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
---<<*<<< Chris dazzled Buc Wheat with these words of wisdom!! >>>**>>----

 Chris!!!!!!!

 Wow! Guess you found where Mom hide the modem, uh??! :>

 CO> I don't agree, i think star trek voyager is great.

  That's ok, Chris....I have no problem with you thinking that V'ger
 is great. Go for it!

 CO> And that you and the other people that call themselves fans of star
 CO> trek.

 You didn't finish this sentence....or if you did, it don't make
 sense....please rephrase and resubmitt.

 CO> Really disgust me, since all you do is complain.  Instead to just
 CO> watch the shows and be entertained.

 Know the feeling, shipmate...V'ger pretty much disgusts me too!
 I've seen better entertainment watching grass grow!

 CO> I watch all the episodes of star trek
 CO> voyager, where only a few i might not have liked a lot, but, i do
 CO> still watch the series and enjoy watching most of it.  And as for

 You have a stronger stomach than good taste allows. Good for you,
 guy!

 CO> V'ger, and your defention where you want a star ship captain that has a
 CO> powerful ship that can destroy vger shows how stupid you are, and that
 CO> you are a moron, and a dork.  Since, you brought up a very stupid item,
 CO> that will never happen, just because you wanted to say it in public.  I

 Wow! Didn't realize Paramount was reading this echo and that my
 comments carried such weight!!! Okay, how's this....I hope Q shows
 up on V'ger and REFUSES to send them back home! <waiting in
 mock anticipation!>

 CO> think you should just not read in here anymore, since you are not a
 CO> true fan of sci fi.

 Well, you got one thing right, Chris...well actually two!!
  1) I don't like Sci-Fi
  2) STrek is Sci-Fi.

 Thanks! :)

 I knew it was too quiet in here for some reason, Chris! Pass me your
 phone number so I can suggest another hiding place for your Mom!

 Kim :)

___ Blue Wave/DOS v2.30

--- PCBoard (R) v15.22/M 10
 * Origin: SelectiveSource VirginiaBeach,VA 804 471 6776 (1:275/102)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 30 of 195
 From : Todd Sullivan                       1:202/720.3     .òp 27 .åâ 96 18:41
 To   : Chris Ogniben
 Subj : Gulliver's Travels
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Brion Lienhart was kicking back and telling sea stories until Inspector General
Chris Ogniben walked in and said, "Knock off with that Gulliver's Travels and
get back to work!"  There was no choice but to shoot Chris.

 CO>   The movie series was stupid.  Of course i didn't watch it, but, you
 CO> all know that it's not real.  And that it didn't acutally happen.  It
 CO> was all made up like a story book.  I didn't bother wasting my time to
 CO> watch it, not with great sci fi shows that are on.

If you had any idea of what Gulliver's Travels was about, you'd have said
nothing.

It is not meant as anything but political and social satire, disguised as an
adventure fantasy.

Todd Sullivan

... "A crust eaten in peace is better than a banquet partaken in
     anxiety." --Aesop

-*- ASTG 1.9

--- Spot 1.3a Unregistered
 * Origin: Todd's Spot in the Continuum (1:202/720.3)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 31 of 195
 From : Don Bach                            1:3632/65       .pä 28 .åâ 96 08:22
 To   : Barton Paul Levenson
 Subj : Re: Alien threats?
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 BPL> My own take on this is that civilizations probably develop in one of two
 BPL> ways -- colonizers, who think their race superior and
 BPL> want to spread through the Universe, fighting it out
 BPL> with whoever gets in their way, and non-colonizers,
 BPL> who try to stop the colonizers out of self-defense.
 BPL> The fact that we haven't been colonized means the
 BPL> antis hold the upper hand in this galaxy.  The best
 BPL> way for us to antagonize them would be to take on the
 BPL> colonizer mentality ourselves, and try to expand.
 BPL> THAT would bring on a very unpleasant first contact.

The Europeans (and eventually the U.S.) were colonizers once they had the
technology to reach other lands.  It indeed did bring on unpleasant contacts
with aborigines (American Indians, Africans, Indians, Polynesians, etc.).  The
strife between the aboriginal and colonial cultures still continues (racism is
one form).

I believe that once we get the technology to reach other worlds, we will take a
very colonial stance and repeat the same mistakes as the European Colonists.

Don


--- Maximus 3.01
 * Origin: No Regrets, Clinton, MS (601)924-8247 9P-5A (1:3632/65)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 32 of 195
 From : mitch obrecht                       1:285/66.98     .îí 26 .åâ 96 09:51
 To   : Aaron Turon
 Subj : What I want to talk about
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On (24 Feb 96) Aaron Turon wrote to Barton Paul Levenson...

 AT> I'd like to talk about STAR TREK Cya! ;)


 AT> --- Opus-CBCS 1.73a
 AT>  * Origin: Chipper Clipper * Scott me up beamy! * 941-745-56
 AT> (1:137/2.0)

Then let's talk Trek!  You start...


... 20y/o gay, single -- what else?  hmm... just ask?

--- PPoint 2.00
 * Origin: A Professional Point System (1:285/66.98)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 33 of 195
 From : mitch obrecht                       1:285/66.98     .îí 26 .åâ 96 09:54
 To   : all
 Subj : help!
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
I've heard several people talk about a story that's probably 10 years old
or more... the basis of this story is that there is someone in the armed
forces (air force, I think) who is hetero, and somehow gets transported
to the future (400 years or so, I think).  Everyone (or the majority) in this
future is gay or lesbian (even bi is considered a no-no) and in one part of
this story or book, the main character is making a speech in front of a
training group, and says "Yes, I'm straight, but don't hold it against me"

Can anybody out there tell me where I can find this? Or who it's by, the
title, or any information?  I've had almost 20 differant people tell me
that they have read it, highly recommend it, yet they cannot tell me
where I can find it, or any info...  Thanks!


--- PPoint 2.00
 * Origin: A Professional Point System (1:285/66.98)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 34 of 195
 From : Michael Harper                      1:123/414       .pä 28 .åâ 96 09:02
 To   : Frank Glover
 Subj : Star Trek Generations
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE 1.11+

 -=> Tossing back another tequila, Frank Glover told Michael Harper about

  Star Trek Generations...

 FG> Indeed he does. I still have an audio tape I made as he brought his
 FG> lunar module down to the surface on the Apollo 12 mission. Compared to
 FG> the few-words Armstrong and Aldrin, he kept an enthusiastic, running
 FG> commentary all the way down. Still, the comm officer's lines were
 FG> short, and one might not notice.

 Yeah, Conrad's always had a big mouth. Remember, most of these guys
 were of the Chuck Yeager school, and no matter what they were doing,
 they always sounded laconic and bored. Yeager could've been making love
 to half a dozen nymphomaniac coeds at Mach 3, and he'd still have
 sounded bored.

 FG> But I've since been told it was Thomas Kopache. Darned if he
 FG> doesn't *look* like Pete though, and we have the precedent of Mae
 FG> Jemison doing a cameo in a Next Generation episode as a transporter
 FG> operator....

 I'm not a bit surprised. Trek's always been popular with NASA
 personnel...


... Mind Like A Steel Trap - Rusty And Illegal In 37 States
--- Blue Wave/RA v2.12
 * Origin:  Weyr Galifrey - Memphis, TN  +1.901.685.0017 (1:123/414)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 35 of 195
 From : Michael Harper                      1:123/414       .pä 28 .åâ 96 09:02
 To   : Frank Swarbrick
 Subj : Dangerous Babes
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE 1.11+

 -=> Tossing back another tequila, Frank Swarbrick told Michael Harper about

  Dangerous Babes...

 FS> Is she from New Zealand?  I don't think so...  The show is shot there,
 FS> sure, but it's an American TV show, and she sure sounds American to
 FS> me.  I heard that neither Hercules nor Xena are even aired in New
 FS> Zealand.

 Nope, she's Enzedd. Has one kid, shares joint custody with her
 ex-husband. And she was already a star in New Zealand before Xena ever
 came about. I think the shows both air down there; I'll check.

... "Exciting, isn't it?" --Draal
--- Blue Wave/RA v2.12
 * Origin:  Weyr Galifrey - Memphis, TN  +1.901.685.0017 (1:123/414)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 36 of 195
 From : The Raven                           1:363/309       .òp 27 .åâ 96 00:51
 To   : Mark Jones
 Subj : Bred to Conquer
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 MJ> I know the feeling.  I don't think I could wade through Lord Of The
 MJ> Rings again, though I really enjoyed it at the time.
 MJ> So--who else *do* you dump on?  I'll show you mine....

 MJ> Alan Dean Foster, as I already mentioned.  I used to read his
 MJ> stuff, but I don't any longer.  He lost me when he published
 MJ> SPELLSINGER and I just never went back.

     Ah, I understand now.  I don't read the Spellsinger novels.  I read one
of them, thought it was cute but fluff, and never read any of the others.


 MJ> C. J. Cherryh.  By all accounts she is popular with both the
 MJ> critics and the public.  Which probably means that she's a good
 MJ> writer.  And certainly what I know of her stories *sounds* good.  But
 MJ> I've tried many times to read some of her stuff and I just can't.  It
 MJ> feels like hacking my way through the jungle with a machete (it was,
 MJ> in fact, her writing that led me to that description).

     Yah, I feel the same way.  But mostly my problem with Cherryh is that I
despise her as a person.  I went to a writer's seminar with her (well... not
*with* her, but you get the idea) and her attitude was "unless you've
published as many novels as I have, your opinions of other writer's work is
worth crap".  She *literally* told me, to my face, "Who the hell cares what
you think" during a supposed "open discussion" about a couple of stories.


 MJ> Stephen R. Donaldson.  I don't read his stuff.  I *never* read his
 MJ> stuff.  So while it may seem that I'm breaking a cardinal rule--never
 MJ> review a book you haven't read--plenty of friends have panned his
 MJ> writing.  And these are friends with tastes I a) know, and b) agree
 MJ> with; I feel no need to burn myself on that oven just to be *sure* it
 MJ> will burn me.  [Sadly, these friends all say he writes very well--its
 MJ> just that his "heroes" are pathetic creatures who invariably lack a
 MJ> backbone.]

     True enough.  I think Donaldson suffers from Tolkein's disease (a love of
his own sense of the grandiose).
     Besides the ones mentioned above (Cherryh and Donaldson), I do not read
(with reactions varying from simple avoidance to active shunning):
     a)  Piers Anthony:  This is more complicated than it looks on the
surface.  I like his historical and non-fiction, but hate his SF.
     b)  Steven Brust:  Similar reasons to Cherryh.  He did something rude and
uncalled for to me a while ago and I've been boycotting ever since.
     c)  L. Ron Hubbard:  Sure, Scientology was a great practical joke, but
his writing needs work.  To be basic, it sucks large wind.
     d)  Hickman and Weiss:  Do I really need to explain?

     I can probably think of a couple more later.  But I won't.

     Jack Butler



... "This isn't heaven!  This sucks!" -- Bob McKenzie
--- Blue Wave/DOS v2.20 [NR]
 * Origin: Forethought BBS -=- Orlando, FL -=- 407-679-6561 (1:363/309)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 37 of 195
 From : The Raven                           1:363/309       .òp 27 .åâ 96 06:04
 To   : Jeroen Jacobs
 Subj : 'bugs' in ST: Generations
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 JJ> -The klingons are getting de shield frequency of the Enterprise .Riker
 JJ> is seeking desperate solutions. Why didn't he changed the
 JJ> shield-frequency like he did in 'The best of both worlds' ??
 JJ> If somebody has found other mistakes (not necessarely in
 JJ> 'generations'), please let me know.

     In "The Search For Spock", Kruge remarks that the Enterprise easily
outguns the Bird of Prey.  Logically, the Enterprise-D does the same, even
with relatively modern (to a Next Generation starfleet member) Bird of Prey.
But instead of hitting the Bird of Prey as hard as possible and cracking
the Klingon's shields like an eggshell, the Enterprise barely responds to
the attack.

     I wanna know *why*...

     Jack Butler



... There is no greater loan than a sympathetic ear.
--- Blue Wave/DOS v2.20 [NR]
 * Origin: Forethought BBS -=- Orlando, FL -=- 407-679-6561 (1:363/309)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 38 of 195
 From : The Raven                           1:363/309       .òp 27 .åâ 96 06:07
 To   : Tommy Kellerman
 Subj : Alien threats?
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 MJ> 1.  They're an alien form of life.  They can't use our environment
 MJ> (and therefore have no compunctions about destroying it), but consider
 MJ> us a potential threat--we might get out and compete with them for
 MJ> resources.  So they eradicate us.

 TK> Well, haven't you considered the opportunity to cooperate? They get
 TK> something from us, and vice versa... They won't kick our asses before
 TK> they have gotten everything that they still haven't got, now IF, they
 TK> are the enemy.
 TK> But I think I'm following Frank's footsteps rather than yours(no pun
 TK> intended).

     And what if the aliens take a "red ants" view toward all other life?
They attack everything which is not another red ant.  Period.  No discussion
or cooperation occurs because it never occurs to the aliens that discussion
and cooperation is necessary.  Only attack.


 MJ> 2.  We are unwilling and/or unable to worship their god(s).  Maybe we
 MJ> find their religion silly.  Maybe we *can't* perform the proper
 MJ> rituals of worship because we don't have the physiology required.  In
 MJ> any case, our failure to worship is an unforgiveable sin--so they nuke
 MJ> us out of existence.

 TK> How do you know if they have a god? Maybe they don't have a religion
 TK> at all. But if they do in the way you're saying, I guess we're toast.

     We *are* speaking hypothetically, remember?  We don't know they have a
God.  But you are saying "there is no reason for any alien species to be
hostile to us without us doing something to them first".  Mark and I are
merely adding a small reply of "nonsense".
     You keep saying things like "If they were smart, they'd cooperate/guide/
train/work with us.  But what you don't seem to want to consider is that
there may not be any good reason for them to attack us from *our* point of
view, but from theirs, every reason in the world exists.
     Remember, to them, our point of view... our way of looking at things and
thinking them through... are irrelevant.  They need not operate from the same
prejudices and lines of thought as we do.

     Jack Butler



... We cannot direct the wind but we can adjust the sails.
--- Blue Wave/DOS v2.20 [NR]
 * Origin: Forethought BBS -=- Orlando, FL -=- 407-679-6561 (1:363/309)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 39 of 195
 From : The Raven                           1:363/309       .òp 27 .åâ 96 06:14
 To   : Nicolai Shapero
 Subj : Alien threats?
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 NS> Or they don't colonize worlds with intelligent life forms already
 NS> present, or they CAN'T colonize a system where the local lifeforms
 NS> haven't exploded outward into interstellar space already...(see David
 NS> Brin's collection, RIVER OF TIME for a possible explanation of that
 NS> variety...)

     Oooooh... that story spooked the hell out of me.  Good stuff.  I still
think the best thing in that collection was Thor vs. Captain America.

     Jack Butler



... "Chances are..." -- Abel the Minstrel
--- Blue Wave/DOS v2.20 [NR]
 * Origin: Forethought BBS -=- Orlando, FL -=- 407-679-6561 (1:363/309)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 40 of 195
 From : The Raven                           1:363/309       .òp 27 .åâ 96 06:18
 To   : Todd Sullivan
 Subj : Bs!!
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 TR>      Who was it who said "A fair fight is a fight I win"?

 TS> Sounds like any of the Heinlein books where Lazarus is featured. :^)

     Since I sent the original message, I found the source.  Teddy Roosevelt
said it.

     Jack Butler



... Read enclosed instructions carefully before opening.
--- Blue Wave/DOS v2.20 [NR]
 * Origin: Forethought BBS -=- Orlando, FL -=- 407-679-6561 (1:363/309)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 41 of 195
 From : The Raven                           1:363/309       .òp 27 .åâ 96 06:23
 To   : Kim Wheat
 Subj : Cybersex
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 BPL> I think I know what you're trying to say, but I think you're mistaken
 BPL> if you say sex can't be discussed seriously, under SF or otherwise.
 BPL> Some interesting comments on sex and human sexuality have come out of
 BPL> science fiction -- though usually books and not TV/movies.  Cf
 BPL> LeGuin's "The Left Hand of Darkness" or Philip Jose Farmer's "The
 BPL> Loverbirds" (very daring when it first came out).  Or anything by
 BPL> Heinlein after he became obsessed with sex.

 KW> To which you can add:
 KW> Griffith's AMMONITE
 KW> PJF's FLESH
 KW> Varley's STEEL BEACH

     Niven's "Ringworld Engineers"
     Halderman's "The Forever War"
     Vandenberg's "Alone in Darkness"

     Jack Butler



... Highlander II:  The Sickening
--- Blue Wave/DOS v2.20 [NR]
 * Origin: Forethought BBS -=- Orlando, FL -=- 407-679-6561 (1:363/309)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 42 of 195
 From : The Raven                           1:363/309       .òp 27 .åâ 96 06:26
 To   : Anders Danebo
 Subj : Cybersex
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 BW> And pray tell me just what is serious Science
 BW> Fiction????????.............. To you what may be serious Sci-Fi, may
 BW> very well to others be fun and games. Also to you talking about sex may
 BW> be boring and uninteresting, that's your perogative, but to others it
 BW> may very well be something completely different. ANd as to your comment
 BW> no one can get serious when sex is involved, WHy???]

 AD> Sex always invites a kind of childishness that almost always gets out
 AD> of hand and ends good discussions...Only my opinion but why speak
 AD> about sex when you can do it instead...Right or Wrong??

     Two points:

     1.  So far, there hasn't been any childishness, and the subject has
been bandied about off and on for a couple of years now.
     2.  And if you *can't* do it?

     Besides, we are talking about sex (not necessarily the actual act, but
the practicies, customs, and societal views) as featured in science fiction.
There have been some very interesting ideas involving sex created in some
very fine science fiction.
     If you have a problem with the subject matter, skip the messages dealing
with it.

     Jack Butler


... Living with a saint is more gruelling than being one.
--- Blue Wave/DOS v2.20 [NR]
 * Origin: Forethought BBS -=- Orlando, FL -=- 407-679-6561 (1:363/309)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 43 of 195
 From : Milo Zambisie                       1:138/258       .pä 28 .åâ 96 02:12
 To   : Chris Ogniben
 Subj : Re: Gulliver's Travels
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On Thu 15-Feb-1996 11:29a, Chris Ogniben said to Brion Lienhart:

CO>   The movie series was stupid.  Of course i didn't watch it, but, you
CO> all know that it's not real.  And that it didn't acutally happen.  It
CO> was all made up like a story book.  I didn't bother wasting my time to
CO> watch it, not with great sci fi shows that are on.

  So you're saying something that you haven't seen is stupid?  How do you know?
"You all know that it's not real"?  Do you think that people think that it was a
documentary?  "And that it didn't actually happen."?  By this am I to assume
that you think that the "great sci fi shows" you mentioned DID ACTUALLY HAPPEN?


  Chris Ogniben is an idiot.  Of course i've never met him, but, you all know
that he doesn't have a clue.  And that he's prejudice.  He babbles like a little
child.  I shouldn't have wasted my time by posting this to him, not with all the
more interesting and intelligent people here.


  THINK HAPPY THOUGHTS!!

--- Tagline Generation by Netrunners Entertainment.
 He's terminally inconvenienced, Jim.
--- CNet/3
 * Origin: Alpha's Attic - Tacoma, Wash. - (206)272-8083 (1:138/258)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 44 of 195
 From : Timothy H. Willis                   1:306/32        .òp 27 .åâ 96 11:13
 To   : Chris Ogniben
 Subj : Re: clarification
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
* Well, Chris Ogniben & Robert Lidgren fighting over the Ben-Wa Gerbils... *

 CO> I think that the women that are involved in writing sci fi is not
 CO> big deal to me.  But, in the world of sci fi, as long women don't play
 CO> the major role of president, and other high ranking stuff that is fine
 CO> with me.  Since i don't mind Janeway being a Captain of a star ship.

    -----misogynistic stuff deleted-----

    I've been wading through your posts, and just *had* to make
at least one reply to you.  First off, I'd read the article S. M.
Stirling wrote for Jim Baen titled "The Woman Warrior" and published in
Volume IV/Summer 1988 paperback anthology "New Destinies", edited by
Jim Baen ISBN: 0-671-65408-X, if I were you.  It may be enlightening,
though I do have some doubts here.
    Second:  I'd like to point out an historical figure for you
to go look up... Bodacia (I think that's the correct spelling), a
warrior/leader who did a pretty good job of whipping the snot out of the
Romans who had invaded Britian.
    Your outdated and bigoted attitude toward women is an opinion
you do have every right to hold... which does not mean it is a correct
one, however.
    I, for one, am extremely gratified to see this trend of writers
creating strong, independent, and competent females which has grown
over the past decade or so.  I've always hated the image of the helpless
woman, cowering and whining in the background at the male had to battle
the bad-guy/beastie/whatever.  It's foolish, for one thing... and it
loads an enormous responsibility on men which is unfair, at the least.
    I know that if I were locked in mortal combat with some badnasty,
I'd prefer my female companion be able to fight alongside me...
    As for good, strong female characters in SF, I recommend the
following:
    The Honor Harrington series, by David Weber
    "The Deed of Paksenarion(sp?)" trilogy by Elizabeth Moon
    "The Cage" (and others) by S. M. Stirling & Shirley Meier
    And, for non-fic, I recommend "Women in War" by Shelly Saywell...
All are either in print, currently, or can be found in used book stores.

    Timothy H. Willis

... If you would know a man, observe how your cat treats him.
--- FMail/386 1.0g
 * Origin: The Forum BBS-Ft Collins,CO *NODE @* (970)225-2627 (1:306/32)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 45 of 195
 From : Timothy H. Willis                   1:306/32        .òp 27 .åâ 96 12:17
 To   : Chris Ogniben
 Subj : Re: Star Trek Generations
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
* Well, Chris Ogniben & Jim May fighting over the Ben-Wa Gerbils... *

 CO> EP story?  Exactlly what does EP mean, perhaps i could write the
 CO> story, if it's something that i am familiar with.  Since i am a sci fi
 CO> writer.

    Nicolai... pardon me for the following blast.

    Okay Chris... you claim to be a writer?  Cite your published
work.  Otherwise, call yourself a writer wannabe.  As a person who is
struggling to sell what I write, and one who *does not* presume to declare
myself to be a writer, until I make that sale, I take umbrage at your
declaration above.
    I'm also getting tired of the misogynistic nonsense you post
up all too frequently, along with your not quoting back part of the
message(s) you're responding to and your little temper tantrums.
    Mellow out...
    Now, to keep this on-topic:  Do you read SF?  If so, what?
Have you ever read any of the works of, say, the late Robert Adams?  Or
possibly Robert Heinlein?  (Or the others I mentioned in my other post?)
Or, are you just a TV watcher?

    Timothy H. Willis

... How about some quotes that SUPPORT your view ? Good luck.
--- FMail/386 1.0g
 * Origin: The Forum BBS-Ft Collins,CO *NODE @* (970)225-2627 (1:306/32)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 46 of 195
 From : Dean Sweatman                       1:396/40        .åò 29 .åâ 96 09:27
 To   : All
 Subj : The vision people strike
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: InterEcho 1.17 6E010867
 * Crossposted from: L_FIAWOL

Ä Area: 218 ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
  Msg#: 2                                            Date: 29 Feb 96  07:46:00
  From: Dean Sweatman
    To: All
  Subj: VISIONS '96 D.C.: A SCI-F
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

VISIONS '96 D.C.: A SCI-FI SUPER SHOW!

March 23 & March 24 *** 10 am - 7 pm daily

The Expo Center at the Ramada
8500 Anapolis Road
New Carrollton MD
301-459-6700

Guests: Ethan Phillips "NEELIX" of Star Trek Voyager
        Terry Farrell "DAX" of Star Trek Deep Space Nine
        James Doohan "SCOTTY" of Star Trek & Next Generation
        David Prowse "DARTH VADER" of Star Wars
        Warwick Davis "WICKET" of Star Wars & "WILLOW" of
        the film "Willow"
        Mark Goddard "MAJOR WEST" of Lost in Space
        World Famous Illusionists GIFFORD & ROY

Captain's Chair from Star Trek Generations will be available for Photos

ASK ABOUT THE SATURDAY NIGHT FORMAL RECEPTION WITH THE STARS!

General admission $18.00  Children (5 - 12) $ 10.00

ADVANCE TICKETS GO ON SALE 2/23/96 at 10:00 am. Call 508-255-6712.

Call 508-240-3557 for More Information

--
CJF Enterprises
PO Box 9075                 email: VGCA29A@PRODIGY.COM Fall River MA 02720-0002
508-646-1324 Fax: 508-646-1325

 ** Keeper of the Captain's Chair off the Bridge of the USS Enterprises  **

Anyone want to hazzard a wild guess what kind of money they will be asking for
this event??  Don't get me wrong Babs and I enjoyed our stay at the last trip
that they made to New Orleans but with their 9 hour window per day getting to
hear each of the guests will not be easy unless you plan on spending both days
at the show.

They added 2 hours per day and increased the price by $2.00 per day to cover the
extra time but adding the Reception on Saturday Night should make up for any
failings that they might have had in giving the Customers a break.

I would love to know what the final tab would be for this one.

Fiawol

... Dean Sweatman's Continuing and Relentless quest toward Fuggheadedness

___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20 [NR]


--- InterEcho 1.17
 * Origin: REUNION BBS, Harahan, La., USA (504) 738-5162 Try God (1:396/40)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 47 of 195
 From : Charles Daniels                     1:203/42        .òp 27 .åâ 96 15:51
 To   : Chris Baugh
 Subj : femist appearances?
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

>CD> The men with breasts have no control over that aspect (or any
>CD> other aspect) of the genetic make-up that instructed their
>CD> bodies how to form. The application of makeup is alterable.

> So, your discussion concerned how makeup can be altered, but make-up
> cannot be altered. <g>

I was saying that comparing genetic make-up to the sort of makeup you
can buy at any dime store.  Of course it does sound rather odd when put like the
above. :)

--- FMail 0.98
 * Origin: Deep Thought: RedDwarf,ST,SF, FREE MEAT!  916-452-9501 (1:203/42)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 48 of 195
 From : Nicolai Shapero                     1:102/524       .åò 29 .åâ 96 05:20
 To   : Chris Ogniben
 Subj : Nuclear
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Feb 14 16:09>, Chris Ogniben (1:2604/568) wrote to Nicolai Shapero:

 CO>two, we use weapons like guns and rifles to do our killing.  I
 CO>bet if
 CO>you put a human man or woman in front of a wild animal where he
 CO>or she
 CO>is weaponless, i bet that the animal is going to win.

Not likely; part of our human-ness is that we're tool users.  And a weapon is
just another tool.  Of course, we're also one of the larger animals on the
planet, and when in decent condition are able to do substantial damage WITHOUT
extra weapons (of course, it requires training to be able to do this, but we're
also INTELLIGENT animals).

 CO>So, i say
 CO>that
 CO>the human race are gutless COWARDS, and the animal kingdom should
 CO>be
 CO>the ones that rule this earth before we did.

Cowards because they'd use anything they've got in the way of an advantage in
order to stay alive?  Hello?  Are we on the same planet, here?

-- Nicolai Shapero, the Mad Russian Sysop of StormGate Aerie

--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 49 of 195
 From : Nicolai Shapero                     1:102/524       .åò 29 .åâ 96 05:24
 To   : Chris Ogniben
 Subj : AHEM!
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Feb 14 16:09>, Chris Ogniben (1:2604/568) wrote to Nicolai Shapero:

 CO>every day.  And the dinosaurs would rule the planet.  But, since
 CO>there
 CO>era has ended, and ours is going to end soon.  That i believe
 CO>that for
 CO>anyone like you people, that are stupid.

Well, then, after this last comment, think of the following as "evolution in
action":

CHRIS, YOU HAVE JUST EARNED A 90 DAY SUSPENSION FROM THIS CONFERENCE.

Bye bye.

-- Nicolai Shapero, Moderator of the SFFAN echo

--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 50 of 195
 From : Nicolai Shapero                     1:102/524       .åò 29 .åâ 96 05:29
 To   : Chris Ogniben
 Subj : Re: Star Trek
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Feb 17 17:01>, Chris Ogniben (1:2604/568) wrote to Anne Swasey:

 CO>Hey you stinking maggot!!!!! You are a TRAITOR to the world of
 CO>MAN..
 CO>You stinking scumbag, good for nothing piece of crap.  Yeah, your
 CO>crap,

No, I guess you need more than 90 days "invitation to the world".  Make it six
months.

-- Nicolai Shapero, Moderator of the SFFAN echo

--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 51 of 195
 From : Kay Shapero                         1:102/524       .åò 29 .åâ 96 08:38
 To   : Todd Sullivan
 Subj : Fan/fanatic/fancier
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Feb 26 20:30>, Todd Sullivan (1:202/720.3) wrote to Kay Shapero:

 KS> pigeons.  It would be easy enough to shorten "fancier" to "fan", and
 KS> form a closer match to the current usage.

 TS>Come on, Kay; you've been to a convention or two, haven't you?

 TS>You see both kinds, plus the *really* wierd ones, if you get my
 TS>drift.

Of course - and I'm sure those who followed the fancy in Regency times had their
share of utter wackos too.  I've been to a lot of conventions, and served on
concoms (two at the moment), and have found fandom to be essentially a culture,
like any other.  A place where "weird" is a complement, because it usually is
used to mean "imaginative" or "creative".

--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 52 of 195
 From : David Durgee                        1:109/458       .ÿò 01 .àp 96 06:25
 To   : Mitch Obrecht
 Subj : Help!
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: InterEcho 1.14 6E011108
In a message dated 02-2696, Mitch Obrecht said to All:

MO>I've heard several people talk about a story that's probably 10 years old
MO>or more... the basis of this story is that there is someone in the armed
MO>forces (air force, I think) who is hetero, and somehow gets transported
MO>to the future (400 years or so, I think).  Everyone (or the majority) in
MO>this future is gay or lesbian (even bi is considered a no-no) and in one
MO>part of this story or book, the main character is making a speech in
MO>front of a training group, and says "Yes, I'm straight, but don't hold it
MO>against me"

Sounds like "The Forever War" by Joe Haldeman to me.

Dave
___
 * MR/2 2.22 NR * Before there was a plastics industry there was petroleum
waste.


--- InterEcho 1.14
 * Origin: The Shoreline BBS  - (301) 946-2771 - Silver Spring, MD (1:109/458)


Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 53 of 195
 From : Brion Lienhart                      1:213/700.2     .åò 29 .åâ 96 09:08
 To   : Chris Ogniben
 Subj : Gulliver's Travels
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On Thu Feb 15, Chris Ogniben said to Brion Lienhart:

 -CO>  The movie series was stupid.  Of course i didn't watch it, but, you
 -CO>all know that it's not real.  And that it didn't acutally happen.  It
 -CO>was all made up like a story book.  I didn't bother wasting my time to
 -CO>watch it, not with great sci fi shows that are on.

If you ever wondered why people don't like you this is it. I don't think I've
ever seen a single message from you that was even civil. If you the only way you
interact with other people is to insult them, don't be suprised when people
don't react positively to you.




--- QM v1.31
 * Origin: Ministry of Peace - Carson City, NV (1:213/700.2)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 54 of 195
 From : Brion Lienhart                      1:213/700.2     .åò 29 .åâ 96 09:10
 To   : BOB NIGHTINGALE
 Subj : Star Trek Generations
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On Sat Feb 24, BOB NIGHTINGALE said to CHRIS CARTER:

 -BN>What I want to know is what was the weapon system that Riker used to
 -BN>blow holes in the Klingons?  It looked like a swarm of mini-torpedoes.

It was the Wave-motion Phaser. They borrowed it from the Yamamato.



--- QM v1.31
 * Origin: Ministry of Peace - Carson City, NV (1:213/700.2)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 55 of 195
 From : Steve Thomas                        1:279/27        .ÿò 01 .àp 96 06:49
 To   : Todd Sullivan
 Subj : Python replies
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Good ones!  One more:

"Ginger, are you a poof?"

"I should certainly say not!!!"

"Good lad!  Funny, he looks like one."

                                 --Steve

--- PCBoard (R) v15.22/M 2
 * Origin: <<*> Blue Powder <*>> þ St. Albans, WV þ 304-727-6733 (1:279/27)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 56 of 195
 From : David Durgee                        1:109/458       .ÿò 01 .àp 96 16:58
 To   : The Raven
 Subj : Cybersex
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: InterEcho 1.14 6E011108
In a message dated 02-2796, The Raven said to Kim Wheat:

 BPL> I think I know what you're trying to say, but I think you're mistaken
 BPL> if you say sex can't be discussed seriously, under SF or otherwise.
 BPL> Some interesting comments on sex and human sexuality have come out of
 BPL> science fiction -- though usually books and not TV/movies.  Cf
 BPL> LeGuin's "The Left Hand of Darkness" or Philip Jose Farmer's "The
 BPL> Loverbirds" (very daring when it first came out).  Or anything by
 BPL> Heinlein after he became obsessed with sex.

 KW> To which you can add:
 KW> Griffith's AMMONITE
 KW> PJF's FLESH
 KW> Varley's STEEL BEACH

TR>     Niven's "Ringworld Engineers"
TR>     Halderman's "The Forever War"
TR>     Vandenberg's "Alone in Darkness"

and Sturgeon's "Venus Plus X"

Dave
___
 * MR/2 2.22 NR * 186,000/mps.  It's not just a good idea.  It's the law.


--- InterEcho 1.14
 * Origin: The Shoreline BBS  - (301) 946-2771 - Silver Spring, MD (1:109/458)


Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 57 of 195
 From : Rod Mammitzsch                      1:2424/1313     .åò 29 .åâ 96 18:42
 To   : Dave Maclean
 Subj : Sci fi
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Hey there?  What is the club?  And I too am a member of an SF group..but we deal
mainly with British Sci-Fi...interested?
TTYL!

--- Xenolink 1.981, XEmacs 1.2
 * Origin: Mater Susperiorum, Mater Lachrymarum, Mater Tenebrarum (1:2424/1313)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 58 of 195
 From : Richard Sarner                      1:271/236       .ÿò 01 .àp 96 11:11
 To   : Chris Baugh
 Subj : Re: looking for
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE 1.11+
Did the guy have stars on his forehead? And harps and riddles played an intregal
part of his transformation? I think you may be thinking of the Riddlemaster of
Hed trilogy by Patricia McPhillip. Riddlemaster of Hed, Harpist in the Wind,
Heir of Sea and Fire. They are among my favorite books of all time.

        'A harp strung with wind, for a man with no hands to play it.'

  ...Richard

--- GEcho 1.11+
 * Origin: THE TIME MACHINE (804)599-6401 TRAVEL THE PORTALS! (1:271/236)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 59 of 195
 From : Phill Ash                           1:275/160       .ÿò 01 .àp 96 10:02
 To   : Mitch Obrecht
 Subj : help!
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE 1.11+
From astride a Pale Horse, ùANATúô heard...

 MO> I've heard several people talk about a story that's probably 10 years
 MO> old or more... the basis of this story is that there is someone in the
 MO> armed forces (air force, I think) who is hetero, and somehow gets
 MO> transported to the future (400 years or so, I think).  Everyone (or the
 MO> majority) in this future is gay or lesbian (even bi is considered a
 MO> no-no) and in one part of this story or book, the main character is
 MO> making a speech in front of a training group, and says "Yes, I'm
 MO> straight, but don't hold it against me"
 MO> Can anybody out there tell me where I can find this? Or who it's by,
 MO> the title, or any information?  I've had almost 20 differant people
 MO> tell me that they have read it, highly recommend it, yet they cannot
 MO> tell me where I can find it, or any info...  Thanks!

        "The Forever War" by Haldeman (Joe, I think)


Your pal:  PhlAsh
---
 þ Ùystertags v1.1 þ They appear at the crossroads at once in the future
~~~ ReneWave v1.01 [NR]
--- Smile :)
 * Origin: * The Beast's Lair * (804)498-3070 * Va Beach VA * (1:275/160)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 60 of 195
 From : Chris Baugh                         1:105/290.5     .åò 29 .åâ 96 01:48
 To   : Frank Glover
 Subj : 'bugs' in ST: Generations
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 FG> The lighting wasn't too good either. Looked like sodium vapor
 FG> street lamps...

Did it look to you like 10-forward was all yellow, rather than a
white room?

--- PPoint 1.98
 * Origin: - (1:105/290.5)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 61 of 195
 From : Sharpshooter                        1:260/158       .ÿò 01 .àp 96 23:12
 To   : MICHAEL HARPER
 Subj : Star Trek Generations
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
MH> Yeah, Conrad's always had a big mouth. Remember, most of these guys
MH> were of the Chuck Yeager school, and no matter what they were doing,
MH> they always sounded laconic and bored. Yeager could've been making love
MH> to half a dozen nymphomaniac coeds at Mach 3, and he'd still have
MH> sounded bored.

That's not boredom, it's professionalism. Hollering into a
voice-actuated microphone is NOT conducive to efficient radio
communications. This is something that's very difficult to learn:
keeping emotion out of your voice when speaking over a comm circuit, for
the sake of efficiency and the safety of yourself and the others on the
mission. It takes training and practice, something that these astronauts
had plenty of before even leaving terra firma.
---
 þ SLMR 2.0 þ BATF: Bastards Authorized to Take Freedoms
 * Origin: The Nighthawk BBS - WNY USA - V.34 (1:260/158)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 62 of 195
 From : Chris Baugh                         1:105/290.5     .ÿò 01 .àp 96 22:27
 To   : Nicolai Shapero
 Subj : shore leave
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 NS> No, I guess you need more than 90 days "invitation to the
 NS> world". Make it six months.

Thank you kindly, good sir!

--- PPoint 1.98
 * Origin: - (1:105/290.5)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 63 of 195
 From : Nicolai Shapero                     1:102/524       .ÿò 01 .àp 96 07:32
 To   : Milo Zambisie
 Subj : Re: Gulliver's Travels
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Feb 28 02:12>, Milo Zambisie (1:138/258@fido) wrote to Chris Ogniben:

 MZ>  Chris Ogniben is an idiot.  Of course i've never met him, but,
 MZ>you all know that he doesn't have a clue.  And that he's
 MZ>prejudice.  He babbles like a little child.  I shouldn't have
 MZ>wasted my time by posting this to him, not with all the more
 MZ>interesting and intelligent people here.

AHEM!  Personal attacks are strictly verbotten on this conference.  You have
been warned.

-- Nicolai Shapero, Moderator of the SFFAN echo

--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 64 of 195
 From : Nicolai Shapero                     1:102/524       .ÿò 01 .àp 96 07:34
 To   : Timothy H. Willis
 Subj : Re: Star Trek Generations
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Feb 27 12:17>, Timothy H. Willis (1:306/32) wrote to Chris Ogniben:

 TH>  Okay Chris... you claim to be a writer?  Cite your published
 TH>work.  Otherwise, call yourself a writer wannabe.

I think that you're confusing writer with published writer.  And if you're
interested in my credentials:  OTHER SUNS, published in September 1983 by FGU
(SFRPG, 95,000 words), ALDERSON YARDS SHIPBOOK, published in 1984 or 85 (forget
exact date, now) by FGU (SFRPG, roughly 7500 words), and LUNA, THE EMPIRE, AND
THE STARS (short story, appeared in THE DRAGON sometime between 1984 and 1986,
roughly 3500 words).  And yes, I'm still at it (second edition of OTHER SUNS is
due out "any time now"...and is around 150,000 words).

-- Nicolai Shapero, the Mad Russian Sysop of StormGate Aerie

--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 65 of 195
 From : Kay Shapero                         1:102/524       .ÿò 01 .àp 96 18:33
 To   : Timothy H. Willis
 Subj : Re: Star Trek Generations
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Feb 27 12:17>, Timothy H. Willis (1:306/32) wrote to Chris Ogniben:

 TH>work.  Otherwise, call yourself a writer wannabe.  As a person
 TH>who is struggling to sell what I write, and one who *does not* presume
 TH>to declare myself to be a writer, until I make that sale,

But you are a writer.  You're just an unpublished writer at the moment.  When
you get your work published, you'll be a published writer.  But still a writer.
Like all of the arts, you do what you do - whether or not you get paid for it is
only relevant to your pocketbook and perhaps your status in your art, but not to
the name.

--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 66 of 195
 From : Michael Harper                      1:123/10        .pä 28 .åâ 96 08:22
 To   : Tommy Kellerman
 Subj : BS!!
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 -=> Tossing back another tequila, Tommy Kellerman told Frank Glover about

  BS!!...

 TK>  Ever seen the movie "Dune"? The Harkonnens are crueller than any
 TK>  humans I've
 TK>  seen in fiction, installing "heart plugs" and so on...

 FG>    I've seen the movie, but I'm not otherwise familiar with the Dune
 FG> universe. However, my understanding is that they *are* descended from
 FG> Earth humans. And those implants were done intentionally to one's self,
 FG> for some reason....

 TK> Well, they were implanted to give the Harkonnens power over their
 TK> people. Do you know if there's a sequel, or is that too much hoping
 TK> for?

 No sequel. Not now, not ever. Universal lost money on DUNE, mostly
 because of their own stupidity in promotion. David Lynch came up with a
 lot of the Harkonnen grotesqueries, mostly for effect. Both of you,
 read the book. The film was a pretty faithful adaptation, but not
 faithful enough for my money. I'd far rather have seen Jodorowsky
 finish his version back in the early Seventies, but he couldn't get the
 backing. A pity, really. His production designer was H. R. Giger...


... Do not judge a book by its movie.
--- RA/FD/FMail
 * Origin: The Eclectic Fox -- Memphis TN  (901)327-1008 (1:123/10)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 67 of 195
 From : Barton Paul Levenson                1:129/26        .ÿò 01 .àp 96 21:02
 To   : Aaron Turon
 Subj : What I want to talk about
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
I haven't seen Voyager, and I've seen only 2 episodes of TNG -- one fairly
interesting one about Klingon culture, and one truly dumb one with a soap-opera
plot (human on board marries E.T. with obnoxious mother-in-law).  But I've seen
every episode of the first series.  Former Trekkie, God help me.  I've got
George Takei's signature ("Galactic greetings!").

--- Maximus 3.01
 * Origin: SoundingBoard, Pittsburgh PA (1:129/26)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 68 of 195
 From : Barton Paul Levenson                1:129/26        .ÿò 01 .àp 96 21:04
 To   : Chris Baugh
 Subj : TERAFORMING
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
The problems with the Moon are mainly the lack of air and the month-long
rotational period.  Both could be corrected, temporarily, by bashing ice
asteroids from the outer system into Luna's equator.  But that would give it an
ammonia-water atmosphere.  Some kind of genetically engineered bacteria would be
needed to transform the atmosphere to a breathable one.

After analyzing the problems involved, I suggested that Mars would be a lot
easier to terraform.  It already rotates quickly, and it's got some water of its
own.

--- Maximus 3.01
 * Origin: SoundingBoard, Pittsburgh PA (1:129/26)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 69 of 195
 From : Barton Paul Levenson                1:129/26        .ÿò 01 .àp 96 21:06
 To   : Dion G Nethercott
 Subj : RE: STAR TREK SEXISM
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
"Probably because the parents never spent time with their kids."

You might well be right.

--- Maximus 3.01
 * Origin: SoundingBoard, Pittsburgh PA (1:129/26)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 70 of 195
 From : Barton Paul Levenson                1:129/26        .ÿò 01 .àp 96 21:06
 To   : Don Bach
 Subj : Re: Alien threats?
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
I tend to doubt it, unless we happened to find people less advanced than
ourselves.  The average civilization out there could be 2.5 billion years old,
so trying to take over one of their planets would be like a highly motivated
group of killer chimpanzees trying to take over Nairobi -- no contest.

--- Maximus 3.01
 * Origin: SoundingBoard, Pittsburgh PA (1:129/26)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 71 of 195
 From : Barton Paul Levenson                1:129/26        .ÿò 01 .àp 96 21:10
 To   : Chris Ogniben
 Subj : Nuclear
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
It depends on how you define "better."  Humans are superior if the criterion is
encephalization (E.Q. 7.3 versus only 5.8 for the next most encephalized, the
dolphin Tursiops truncatus), or language skills.  If you consider speed, then
cheetahs are the "best" land animal.  For fecundity, nothing beats bacteria.

--- Maximus 3.01
 * Origin: SoundingBoard, Pittsburgh PA (1:129/26)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 72 of 195
 From : Barton Paul Levenson                1:129/26        .ÿò 01 .àp 96 21:14
 To   : Mitch Obrecht
 Subj : help!
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
The book is "The Forever War" (1973) by Joe Haldeman.  It was partly social
satire; Haldeman, a Viet Nam vet, hated the army.  It was also a parody of the
Heinlein juvenile, "Starship Troopers," featuring many of the same themes --
spacesuits that augment your physical strength; a "paradise planet" for R&R,
etc.  Heinlein and Haldeman often clashed over military-vs-peace issues but seem
to have gotten along well together on a personal level.

--- Maximus 3.01
 * Origin: SoundingBoard, Pittsburgh PA (1:129/26)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 73 of 195
 From : Barton Paul Levenson                1:129/26        .óá 02 .àp 96 07:03
 To   : Timothy H. Willis
 Subj : Re: clarification
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Boudicca, or Boadicea in Latin.  An amazing and formidable woman; I've always
been sorry she didn't succeed.

My own "Shila the Huntress" has a female protagonist, but I don't know if it
will ever be published, alas...

--- Maximus 3.01
 * Origin: SoundingBoard, Pittsburgh PA (1:129/26)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 74 of 195
 From : Barton Paul Levenson                1:129/26        .óá 02 .àp 96 07:04
 To   : Timothy H. Willis
 Subj : Re: Star Trek Generations
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
I think of myself as an SF and fantasy writer, though I've only had one short
story published to date ("Twenty Peasants," _Marion Zimmer Bradley's Fantasy
Magazine,_ August '91).  As long as I go on without being able to sell anything,
I can at least call myself an amateur writer.  If I make another sale, I'll be a
professional.

--- Maximus 3.01
 * Origin: SoundingBoard, Pittsburgh PA (1:129/26)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 75 of 195
 From : Kevin Ahearn                        1:109/104       .óá 02 .àp 96 18:25
 To   : Nicolai Shapero
 Subj : Re: SFRPG
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 NS> 1984 and 1986, roughly 3500 words).  And yes, I'm still
 NS> at it (second edition of OTHER SUNS is due out "any
 NS> time now"...and is around 150,000 words).

An RPG by our esteemed moderator?  Cool!  Let us all know when it comes out.

--Kevin


--- Maximus/2 3.01
 * Origin: ShanErin (1:109/104)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 76 of 195
 From : Frank Swarbrick                     1:104/825       .ÿò 01 .àp 96 18:29
 To   : Chris Ogniben
 Subj : Gulliver's Travels
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12  92-0022
On 02-15-96  11:29 my Very Good Friend Chris Ogniben said:

 CO> The movie series was stupid.  Of course i didn't watch it, but, you
 CO> all know that it's not real.  And that it didn't acutally happen.  It
 CO> was all made up like a story book.  I didn't bother wasting my time to
 CO> watch it, not with great sci fi shows that are on.

And science fiction is real?  Just exactly what world do you live in
anyway, Chris?  How can you say it was stupid if you didn't even watch
it?  It was quite delightful, actually.

        Frank

... No one can hear when you're Screaming in Digital!
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12
 * Origin: The Bailey Information Exchange BBS, 28.8k v.fc  (1:104/825.0)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 77 of 195
 From : Marco Catalano                      2:2802/152.3    .pä 28 .åâ 96 14:01
 To   : Jeroen Jacobs
 Subj : 'bugs' in ST: Generations
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Hello Jeroen!


Thursday February 22 1996, Jeroen Jacobs writes to All:

 JJ> recently: I sawa list with the mistakes in Star Trek : generations. Here
 JJ> it comes:

---------- Message Cut -----------

 JJ> If somebody has found other mistakes (not necessarely in
 JJ> 'generations'),
 JJ> please let me know.

How about the solar probe?
It was launched and almost immidiately impacted on the sun. A probe that small
couldn't have warp capability.
Let alone that, when the probe started to dampen the sun, it immidiately became
darker. An 'M' class planet or moon must be several light-minutes away at
mimimun. Like our own planet, the sunlight takes about 8 minutes to reach us.



Greetings from Marco
BYE!




--- FMail/386 1.02
 * Origin: 61 Cygni. There's life Jim! But not as we know it. (2:2802/152.3)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 78 of 195
 From : Marco Catalano                      2:2802/152.3    .ÿò 01 .àp 96 09:21
 To   : Tam Phan
 Subj : Sliders!
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Hello Tam!


Monday February 26 1996, Tam Phan writes to All:

 TP> Sliders is back on FOX! This Friday, before X-Files.

Can you tell me if I can receive FOX with a dish, Tam?
I live in the Netherlands so if Fox is transmitting on the ASTRA satellite it
must be possible to get it.


Greetings from Marco
BYE!



... If at first you don't succeed, destroy all evidence that you tried.

--- FMail/386 1.02
 * Origin: Zeta Reticuli. There's life, Jim! But not as... (2:2802/152.3)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 79 of 195
 From : Mark Jones                          1:105/302.47    .åò 29 .åâ 96 23:09
 To   : The Raven
 Subj : Star Trek Generations
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On (18 Feb 96) The Raven wrote to Frank Glover...

 TR> I've thought about it and I've thought about it, and it seems to
 TR> me that this is probably the most likely of all scenarios if Trek
 TR> was real. The Galaxy class was supposed to have an operational
 TR> lifetime of... what? Thirty or forty years? If I remember right,
 TR> the -D had just come off the line, so to speak, when the series
 TR> began.

   ...and they should be able to slap one together in very short
order.  Even if they can't replicate the entire ship in one fell swoop
(in a giant space-station sized replicator), they *can* replicate all
the individual parts.  And the parts will all be *exactly* identical
right down to the molecular level.
   As long as you can shovel raw materials into the hopper, you can
churn out parts endlessly.


--- PPoint 1.78
 * Origin: Folcroft Sanitarium (hsmith@cure.com) (1:105/302.47)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 80 of 195
 From : Mark Jones                          1:105/302.47    .åò 29 .åâ 96 23:16
 To   : Dion G Nethercott
 Subj : NUCLEAR BS
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On (22 Feb 96) Dion G Nethercott wrote to Chris Ogniben...

 DG>  possible alternatives:
 DG>     *  wave motion - use kinetic energy from the sea.

   Sure.  If you live near the sea.  And you're only interested in
running a low-energy home.  Try running an industrial civilization on
this...if you don't mind watching it collapse.  (And if it collapses
it is virtually certain that everyone in this echo will be dead within
a year or two--two many people, too little food.)

 DG>     *  solar       - a field of parabolic, computer controlled
 DG>                     mirrors focused on a water
 DG>                     tank produces steam. (has been done, mirrors
 DG>                     produced temps of around 2000 deg C )

   Sure.  During the day.  If it isn't too overcast.  And if you
aren't trying to run an industrial civilization this way.

 DG>     *  watermills  - like windmills but in the gulf stream or
 DG>                      something.

   This one is actually viable--if you include hydro-power from dams
and turbines...but I think we've pretty much already done this
everywhere its viable (at least in the USA).  [Environmental side
effects do exist--declining salmon runs, for instance.]

 DG>     *  go back to hunter/gather society ;)

   No, thanks.  I like living a high-tech industrial civilization with
modern medicine, communication, etc.

 DG>     *  other suggestions welcome...

   Well, fusion would be nice.  Cold fusion would be ideal.  Or even
some completely unexpected source of virtually limitless power we have
no inkling about today.  Maybe tomorrow....

--- PPoint 1.78
 * Origin: Folcroft Sanitarium (hsmith@cure.com) (1:105/302.47)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 81 of 195
 From : James Walton                        1:129/260       .óá 02 .àp 96 12:00
 To   : Chris Baugh
 Subj : Re: looking for
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 CB> It was set in an island nation with a vaguely medieval /
 CB> Rennaissance times.  The hero, from a humble dairy farming family
 CB> (in book 1), had various adventures - including being trained (in
 CB> book 2) by some kind of wizard in some kind of enchanted forest in
 CB> the techniques of finding out what the trees were thinking,
 CB> temporarily becoming animals, etc. The quest eventually took him
 CB> back home (in book 3) for a grand show-down with some evil guy,

Sounds a little like the Riddle Master of Hed series by Patricia McKilip (sp)
Not exactly, though.





--- Via Silver Xpress V4.00 SW12427
 * Origin: ConFluence '96:  Return to Mars! (1:129/260)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 82 of 195
 From : James Walton                        1:129/260       .óá 02 .àp 96 12:07
 To   : Mitch Obrecht
 Subj : Re: help!
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 MO> old or more... the basis of this story is that there is someone in the
 MO> armed forces (air force, I think) who is hetero, and somehow gets
 MO> transported to the future (400 years or so, I think).  Everyone (or the
 MO> majority) in this future is gay or lesbian (even bi is considered a
 MO> no-no) and in one part of this story or book, the main character is
 MO> making a speech in front of a training group, and says "Yes, I'm
 MO> straight, but don't hold it against me"

There is a book called "The Forever War" by Joe Haldeman.  The main character
spends a lot of time traveling at the speed of light, so Earth ages a couple
hundred years while he is away.  He is placed in command of a group of
soldier from his "future."  They call him "The Old Queer" because he is
hetero and they are all gay.  Being gay was in vogue because it didn't create
children.





--- Via Silver Xpress V4.00 SW12427
 * Origin: ConFluence '96:  Return to Mars! (1:129/260)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 83 of 195
 From : Ken Mayes                           1:393/7         .óá 02 .àp 96 10:38
 To   : Brion Lienhart
 Subj : Re: Star Trek Generations
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On Thu 29-Feb-1996  9:10a, Brion Lienhart said to Bob Nightingale:

BL> On Sat Feb 24, BOB NIGHTINGALE said to CHRIS CARTER:
BL>  -BN>What I want to know is what was the weapon system that Riker used to
BL>  -BN>blow holes in the Klingons?  It looked like a swarm of
BL> mini-torpedoes.

BL> It was the Wave-motion Phaser. They borrowed it from the Yamamato.
BL>


        Close. It was the Yamato...or Argo depending on which country your in.
:)

        Interesting to note that I wasn't the only one who picked up on the
similarity. Of course the use of the main deflector dish to fire an energy burst
in "Best of Both Worlds" more closely fits this parrallel.

        On the subject of what the Enterprise E is going to look like... how
'bout this?:

        The Enterprise original was destroyed. The E-A was mothballed. The E-C
was destroyed. The E-D crashed. I've never seen anything about what might have
happened to the E-B. Now just supposing that a few months after the crash of the
E-D a Federation starship discovers the E-B which was missing and presumed lost
for seventy years. It might be towed back to Star Fleet Headquarters, inspected,
upgraded and recommissioned for active duty. You wouldn't even have to
re-christin her. :)



--- CNet/3
 * Origin: The Bard's Tavern Denton, TX (817)243-5110 USR 28.8   (1:393/7)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 84 of 195
 From : Don Dellmann                        1:154/40        .cê 03 .àp 96 19:19
 To   : David Durgee
 Subj : Cybersex
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
While tripping merrily through the mail, David Durgee was overheard

 BPL> Some interesting comments on sex and human sexuality have come out of
 BPL> science fiction -- though usually books and not TV/movies.  Cf

 KW> To which you can add:
 KW> Griffith's AMMONITE
 KW> PJF's FLESH
 KW> Varley's STEEL BEACH

 TR>     Niven's "Ringworld Engineers"
 TR>     Halderman's "The Forever War"
 TR>     Vandenberg's "Alone in Darkness"

 DD> and Sturgeon's "Venus Plus X"

Fred Saberhagen's "Love Conquers All"

Don

... Sorry. My karma ran over your dogma.
---
 * Origin: Anonymous BBS -=- Non plus Ultra -=- 414-251-2580 (1:154/40)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 85 of 195
 From : Charles Daniels                     1:203/42        .cê 03 .àp 96 12:33
 To   : Frank Glover
 Subj : Cybersex
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

>BP>  Loverbirds" (very daring when it first came out).  Or anything by
>BP>  Heinlein after he became obsessed with sex.

>    Starting around `Stranger In A Strange Land,' eh?

Well The Puppet Masters has some really interesting sexual content as well.

--- FMail 0.98
 * Origin: Deep Thought: RedDwarf,ST,SF, FREE MEAT!  916-452-9501 (1:203/42)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 86 of 195
 From : Anders Danebo                       2:201/190       .åò 29 .åâ 96 06:26
 To   : Jeroen Jacobs
 Subj : Hello !
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

-=> Quoting Jeroen Jacobs to Anders Danebo <=-

 JJ> Yow Anders !! Where the hell are you ??

 JJ> Zaterdag Februari 17 1996 20:54, Anders Danebo schreef naar Jeroen
 JJ> Jacobs:
 JJ>> And these are my favorite SF-series:

 JJ>> - the X files.
 JJ>> - Star Trek : Deep Space 9
 JJ>> - Star Trek : The Next Generation
 JJ>> - Star Trek : Voyager
 JJ>> - The Outer Limits

 AD> You must be my twin or my twin soul...Exactly my faves..

 JJ> Twin ??.....cool !!

 JJ> I forgot one : Twin peaks (I consider it SF).

I believe that's where the twin ship ends...

 JJ> Does anybody know about a confrontation VOYAGER <-> BORG ??



 JJ> Greetings from The Prince of Darkness,

 JJ> Jeroen

 JJ> -[PGP_ID=1F7602ED]-


 JJ> ...I am Zsa Zsa of Borg. Prepare to be assimilated dahling.

 JJ> -!- FMail/386 1.0g
 JJ>  ! Origin: 2:292/506.26  (2:292/506.26)



... All right, set phasers to deep fat fry!
--- GEcho 1.00
 * Origin: =:Detroit Rock City:= Stockholm, Sweden  +46-8-870055 (2:201/190)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 87 of 195
 From : Anders Danebo                       2:201/190       .åò 29 .åâ 96 06:27
 To   : Kay Shapero
 Subj : Cybersex
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

-=> Quoting Kay Shapero to Anders Danebo <=-

 KS> Ever read Ursula K. Leguin's _The Left Hand Of Darkness_?  Or for that
 KS> matter, some of Philip Jose Farmer's stuff.  There's a heck of a lot
 KS> more to this topic than you think.
 KS> -!- msged 2.06
 KS>  ! Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Perhaps,but since the almighty moderator has put his foot down on me,i have
no say in the matter.So the discussion is pointless to continue...


... "Captain, Permission to hook up blender attachments to Mr. Data
--- GEcho 1.00
 * Origin: =:Detroit Rock City:= Stockholm, Sweden  +46-8-870055 (2:201/190)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 88 of 195
 From : Richard Price                       1:3604/33       .cê 03 .àp 96 21:27
 To   : Frank Swarbrick
 Subj : Gulliver's Travels
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

FS>>On 02-15-96  11:29 my Very Good Friend Chris Ogniben said:

FS>> CO> The movie series was stupid.  Of course i didn't watch it, but, you
FS>> CO> all know that it's not real.  And that it didn't acutally happen.  It
FS>> CO> was all made up like a story book.  I didn't bother wasting my time to
FS>> CO> watch it, not with great sci fi shows that are on.

FS>>And science fiction is real?  Just exactly what world do you live in
FS>>anyway, Chris?  How can you say it was stupid if you didn't even watch
FS>>it?  It was quite delightful, actually.

I thought so too...it was quite delightful...I thought it was great.

The Crow
        Victims, aren't we all?


 * OLX 2.2 TD * Victims, aren't we all?

--- Maximus 2.02
 * Origin: Atrocity Exhibition (1:3604/33)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 89 of 195
 From : Barton Paul Levenson                1:129/26        .cê 03 .àp 96 16:07
 To   : Mark Jones
 Subj : Alternative energy sources
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
I think you dismiss solar too casually.  Other forms of power generation are
also intermittent; coal and nuclear power plants are not up 100% of the time
either -- in fact they average about 50% over the year.

The obvious solution is to store power.  Solar thermal and photovoltaic power
during the day can be used to pump water uphill; at night it can run back
through turbines.

And on overcast days, the wind tends to be blowing.  Bad Solar days are good
wind days.  I understand California already has several hundred megawatts
installed.

Hot-dry-rock geothermal has barely been explored yet, but it is another huge,
huge source of energy, and could easily be tapped around the clock.

Then there's ocean thermal energy, dependent on the temperature difference
between shallow and deep waters.  Another potentially huge source of power.

--- Maximus 3.01
 * Origin: SoundingBoard, Pittsburgh PA (1:129/26)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 90 of 195
 From : Frank Glover                        1:2613/477      .cê 03 .àp 96 14:17
 To   : Chris Baughp
 Subj : Re: 'bugs' in ST: Generations
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

CB>   FG> The lighting wasn't too good either. Looked like sodium vapor
CB>   FG> street lamps...
CB>
CB>  Did it look to you like 10-forward was all yellow, rather than a
CB>  white room?

   That, the corridors, the Captain's quaters....

   That's close to what sodium-vapor lights would do. (As opposed to the bluish
light of mercury-vapor street lamps.) I suppose I'm spoiled by the clear
lighting used on the series. I can understand it being a little more subdued
than that (espically in the ship's `night' cycle) but not *that* bad.....

   Frank


--- QuickBBS 2.80 GoldBase (Zeta-1)
 * Origin: The Matrix Data Bank BBS, Rochester, Ny (1:2613/477)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 91 of 195
 From : Frank Glover                        1:2613/477      .cê 03 .àp 96 15:11
 To   : Nicolai Shapero
 Subj : Re: Nuclear
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

NS>  Not likely; part of our human-ness is that we're tool users.  And a
NS>  weapon is just another tool.  Of course, we're also one of the larger

   Agreed. Indeed one of the often-missed points in `2001:A Space Odyssey' (a
little clearer in the novelization) is that when that early humanoid realized
what he(?) could do with that bone, our *first* tool was a weapon. (with all
that implies about human nature, I suppose)

   And the following million-year flash forward showed us a satellite that was
(again, according to the novelization) an orbiting nuclear weapons platform.
Another tool/weapon....

   Frank


--- QuickBBS 2.80 GoldBase (Zeta-1)
 * Origin: The Matrix Data Bank BBS, Rochester, Ny (1:2613/477)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 92 of 195
 From : Frank Glover                        1:2613/477      .cê 03 .àp 96 15:20
 To   : Barton Paul Levenson
 Subj : Re: TERAFORMING
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

BP>  The problems with the Moon are mainly the lack of air and the
BP>  month-long rotational period.  Both could be corrected, temporarily,
BP>  by bashing ice asteroids from the outer system into Luna's equator.
BP>  But that would give it an ammonia-water atmosphere.  Some kind of
BP>  genetically engineered bacteria would be needed to transform the
BP>  atmosphere to a breathable one.

   Actually, with the stable platform, low gravity and vacuum all the way to the
surface, I submit that for future industrial and research purposes, theMoon is
more valuable as it is. I wouldn't terraform it, even if I could.

   Now Mars on the other hand.....

   Frank


--- QuickBBS 2.80 GoldBase (Zeta-1)
 * Origin: The Matrix Data Bank BBS, Rochester, Ny (1:2613/477)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 93 of 195
 From : Frank Glover                        1:2613/477      .cê 03 .àp 96 15:30
 To   : Marco Catalano
 Subj : Re: 'bugs' in ST: Generations
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

MC>  How about the solar probe?
MC>  It was launched and almost immidiately impacted on the sun. A probe
MC>  that small couldn't have warp capability.

   I don't know. The first apperance of Worf's girlfriend involved travel in a
one-person warp-driven device of similar size, so there is a precedent. And this
probe, as it had to operate less than a minute, could run in an
all-safties-disabled, flat-out redlined mode, not unlike the small ship that
attacked the first Enterprise back in `Journey to Babel.'

MC>  Let alone that, when the probe started to dampen the sun, it
MC>  immidiately became darker. An 'M' class planet or moon must be
MC>  several light-minutes away at mimimun. Like our own planet, the
MC>  sunlight takes about 8 minutes to reach us.

   Absolutely right on this one, though. To be neither too close or to far to be
a Class-M world, and the speed of light in vacuum being the unalterable (even if
surpassable) thing it is, they should've seen no change for, say, 8-12
minutes....

   Frank


--- QuickBBS 2.80 GoldBase (Zeta-1)
 * Origin: The Matrix Data Bank BBS, Rochester, Ny (1:2613/477)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 94 of 195
 From : Frank Glover                        1:2613/477      .cê 03 .àp 96 15:34
 To   : Mark Jones
 Subj : Re: Star Trek Generations
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

MJ>     ...and they should be able to slap one together in very short
MJ>  order.  Even if they can't replicate the entire ship in one fell
MJ>  swoop
MJ>  (in a giant space-station sized replicator), they *can* replicate all
MJ>  the individual parts.  And the parts will all be *exactly* identical
MJ>  right down to the molecular level.
MJ>     As long as you can shovel raw materials into the hopper, you can
MJ>  churn out parts endlessly.

   And I have to assume the Federation is still recovering from its losses to
the Borg back at Wolf 359 (plus losing Galaxy-class ships Yamoto and Odyssey in
other circumstances), and the Utopia Planatia yards must be pretty busy....

   Frank

--- QuickBBS 2.80 GoldBase (Zeta-1)
 * Origin: The Matrix Data Bank BBS, Rochester, Ny (1:2613/477)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 95 of 195
 From : Chris Baugh                         1:105/290.5     .cê 03 .àp 96 01:25
 To   : Richard Sarner
 Subj : looking for
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 RS> the Riddlemaster of Hed trilogy by Patricia McPhillip. Riddlemaster of
 RS> Hed, Harpist in the Wind, Heir of Sea and Fire. They are among my

That's it! Thank you, thank you!

--- PPoint 1.98
 * Origin: - (1:105/290.5)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 96 of 195
 From : The Raven                           1:363/309       .ÿò 01 .àp 96 23:41
 To   : mitch obrecht
 Subj : help!
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 mo> I've heard several people talk about a story that's probably 10 years
 mo> old or more... the basis of this story is that there is someone in the
 mo> armed forces (air force, I think) who is hetero, and somehow gets
 mo> transported to the future (400 years or so, I think).  Everyone (or the
 mo> majority) in this future is gay or lesbian (even bi is considered a
 mo> no-no) and in one part of this story or book, the main character is
 mo> making a speech in front of a training group, and says "Yes, I'm
 mo> straight, but don't hold it against me"
 mo> Can anybody out there tell me where I can find this? Or who it's by,
 mo> the title, or any information?  I've had almost 20 differant people
 mo> tell me that they have read it, highly recommend it, yet they cannot
 mo> tell me where I can find it, or any info...  Thanks!

     "The Forever War".  Heinlein called it the best SF book written about war
ever written.  The reason for the homosexuality was population control.  (They
not only were all gay, they were all clones...).

     Jack Butler



... Someone's at the door...
--- Blue Wave/DOS v2.20 [NR]
 * Origin: Forethought BBS -=- Orlando, FL -=- 407-679-6561 (1:363/309)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 97 of 195
 From : The Raven                           1:363/309       .ÿò 01 .àp 96 23:43
 To   : Todd Sullivan
 Subj : Fan/fanatic/fancier
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 KS> Frankly I've always doubted that derivation, Webster notwithstanding.
 KS> I'm not so sure it doesn't really derive from "fancy" as per "following
 KS> the fancy", a Regency era term for those with an interest in pugilistic
 KS> displays, or "pigeon fancier" for someone who raises and shows prize
 KS> pigeons.  It would be easy enough to shorten "fancier" to "fan", and
 KS> form a closer match to the current usage.

 TS> Come on, Kay; you've been to a convention or two, haven't you?
 TS> You see both kinds, plus the *really* wierd ones, if you get my drift.
 TS> Ook, ook, drool. <snicker>

     Do you remember the geekwad in the Captain Kirk shirt who I almost threw
through a window because he wouldn't leave KT alone?  Or were you at that
convention...

     Jack Butler



... "If anything can go wrong, it will." -- Murphy's 1st Law
--- Blue Wave/DOS v2.20 [NR]
 * Origin: Forethought BBS -=- Orlando, FL -=- 407-679-6561 (1:363/309)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 98 of 195
 From : The Raven                           1:363/309       .ÿò 01 .àp 96 23:52
 To   : Timothy H. Willis
 Subj : Star Trek Generations
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 THW> Okay Chris... you claim to be a writer?  Cite your published
 THW> work.  Otherwise, call yourself a writer wannabe.  As a person who is
 THW> struggling to sell what I write, and one who *does not* presume to
 THW> declare myself to be a writer, until I make that sale, I take umbrage
 THW> at your declaration above.

     Got news.  I've made a couple of sales and don't call myself a writer.
Won't, either, until 75%+ of my income is provided by my writing.

     Jack Butler



... "Wax my Lupus!" -- Tony Vincenzi, Glass Walker
--- Blue Wave/DOS v2.20 [NR]
 * Origin: Forethought BBS -=- Orlando, FL -=- 407-679-6561 (1:363/309)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 99 of 195
 From : Jon Helis                           1:3800/25       .åò 22 .åâ 96 22:49
 To   : Gerry Normandeau
 Subj : Re: Cybersex
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 -=> Quoting Gerry Normandeau to Jon Helis <=-

 GN> On 02-14-96  18:37 Jon Helis sent Barton Paul Levenson to the gallows
 GN> pole because of Re: Cybersex!

 -=> Quoting Barton Paul Levenson to Anders Danebo <=-
 GN>
 BPL> @MSGID: 1:129/26.0 3125bb20
 BPL> @REPLY: 2:201/190.0 311ea93a
 BPL> I think I know what you're trying to say, but I think you're mistaken
 BPL> if you say sex can't be discussed seriously, under SF or otherwise.
 BPL> Some interesting comments on sex and human sexuality have come out of
 BPL> science fiction -- though usually books and not TV/movies.  Cf LeGuin's
 BPL> "The Left Hand of Darkness" or Philip Jose Farmer's "The Loverbirds"
 BPL> (very daring when it first came out).  Or anything by Heinlein after he
 BPL> became obsessed with sex.

 JH> The 1973 Michael Crichton film "Westworld" dealt with this issue
 JH> in a very interesting way.

 JH> Anyone who's seen it care to discuss it?

 GN> Well that was a very good movie (I have it on tape) But the problem
 GN> is it barley scratched the surface about the concept of cyber sex.
 GN> Also taking into account they were robots and the film Crichton of
 GN> course was more interested in showing how tecnology is bad and will
 GN> kill us all. He's funny that way nes pa?

Westworld is one of my favorite all time movies.  I've never
seen an uncut print of it I don't think, since my viewings of it
have been strictly late night broadcast TV showings of it.
Still a good movie nonetheless.

Even though they were robots, I still think it can be applied
here.  In cybersex, or any other VR activity, nobody gets hurt,
which was the same in Westworld.

I look at the film from another point of view, that misdeeds,
even sanctioned misdeeds, in which nobody gets hurt, do have
consequences, and that certain behavior is simply immoral, and
should not go on, regardless of who gets hurt or not.

Anyone have an opinion on that?






... Security, confine Ensign Normandeau to the brig.
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

--- PCBoard (R) v15.22/M 10
 * Origin: * DataCom BBS - Baton Rouge, La. -  (504)275-2605 - @dcbbs.com *
(1:3800/25)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 100 of 195
 From : Jon Helis                           1:3800/25       .ÿò 23 .åâ 96 00:43
 To   : Jeff Schmidt
 Subj : Re: Hi Jon
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 -=> Quoting Jeff Schmidt to Jon Helis <=-

 JS> @MSGID: 1:3604/33.0 312d6749
 -=> Quoting Jon Helis to Dean Sweatman <=-

 JH> Sorry to hear about Black Tower closing down.  It seems that
 JH> alot of BBSes are closing, I guess due to increasingly available
 JH> internet.  Locally, there are a good number of BBSes for a city
 JH> this size, but it seems alot of them are pay boards.  I get alot
 JH> of use out of this board, it's a bargain at $35/year.

 JS> Hi Jon, I'm still up at least though I have a whopping two users as of
 JS> the  moment.  I'm trying to carry FIAWOL over here; I can send stuff
 JS> out on it but  I've still not gotten anything in.

I'm sure your user base will increase in time.  Again, it's good
you have your BBS back up.

 JS> Pay boards suck.....

In some ways that's true, but I get alot of use out this board.
The sysop brought back this sub and Babylon 5 for me, he had
dropped them before because nobody was using them.  As far as I
can tell, I'm the only caller using them right now.  This board
also carries other echoes I'm active in, like the ham radio and
LA Chat echoes.

 JS> First time I've been on this echo in about a year.  I'm still trying
 JS> to catch  Space: Above and Beyond when possible.  Hasn't been too
 JS> possible lately  though.

I catch it every Sunday night.  Looks like this Sunday it's
getting pre-empted again, what a bummer.  During football
season, you couldn't figure out when it was starting because of
games running over, now it's getting pre-empted.  It seems like
Fox has done that a few times before, unfortunately.  This is a
great series, and shouldn't get this kind of treatment.




... What can you do at 3 AM?   Psssttt - got a modem??
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

--- PCBoard (R) v15.22/M 10
 * Origin: * DataCom BBS - Baton Rouge, La. -  (504)275-2605 - @dcbbs.com *
(1:3800/25)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 101 of 195
 From : Jon Helis                           1:3800/25       .ÿò 23 .åâ 96 01:29
 To   : Channon Lang
 Subj : Re: Star Trek
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 -=> Quoting Channon Lang to Jon Helis <=-

 CL> From a dark bottomless pit,Jon Helis screamed up to Channon Lang about
 CL> Star Trek..
 JH> I enjoy watching DS9, but Voyager, sometimes it's good, while at
 JH> other times, outright disappointing.  This inconsistency is
 JH> slowly starting to push me away.  Unless they start coming up
 JH> with good scripts, I may write it off too.

 CL> I was concerned about DS9 for a while...and really leary about Worf
 CL> showing up there. But it seems to shaping up quite nicely. And Worf is
 CL> finding a friend in Dax...it's interesing how quickly he replaced
 CL> Deanna Troy, isn't it?

 JH> Worf's relationship with Odo is somewhat interesting, in fact,
 JH> it's beginning to look a little like Odo's relationship with
 JH> Quark.

 CL> It seems that Odo has that effect on people. Maybe it's one of those
 CL> Love Hate relationships....I think if it came down to the wire Odo and
 CL> Quark and probably even Worf would give everything to save the other.

 JH> Last month, I got the chance to see Terry Farrel at a
 JH> convention.  She's a very entertaining speaker.  Seeing her
 JH> handle a 10 foot albino python was also interesting.
 CL>
 CL> Bet that was interesting....where did you get to see her?

I saw her at an Infinite Visions convention in New Orleans.  It
was interesting to say the least.  Brent Spiner was originally
set to appear, but he couldn't due to illness, so Terry Farrell
took his place.

 JH> The ghosts of Battlestar Galactica and Space 1999 still haunt me
 JH> when I see Voyager.

 CL> I really like Battlestar Galactica...but then I was a teenage with a
 CL> HUGE crush on Dirk Benedict, too...As for Space 1999, I couldn't stand

 JH> I enjoyed Galactica's first few episodes, but it did later go
 JH> down hill for me.  It's spinoff, Galactica 1980, was a major
 JH> disappointment for me.  Space:1999 during its first season had
 JH> some good stories, but the second season(which included Fred
 JH> Frieberger, the producer of Star Trek's last season, and the
 JH> introduction of a shapeshifting alien) really sucked the sewage.
 JH> I still have my 2.5 foot long Eagle One playset around here
 JH> somewhere.  I also have a toy Cylon Raider spaceship, one of the
 JH> ones that fires missiles, that were pulled from the market after
 JH> a child suffered a choking accident.

 CL> I must say, I did like the ships in Galactica. I really thought the
 CL> cylon ships were the epidomy of a "flying saucer".

Yes they were. Those Sphinx-Like helmets were a little much
though.  They were trying to capitalized on Erich Von Danekin I
guess.  I always found it odd on the show, it seemed when the
Colonial Vipers got hit, they didn't take much damage, while one
shot would wipe out a Cylon ship.

I thought Boltar was a good villain.  John Colicos played the
part well, but they messed up the series when they let him get
captured and put on the prison barge.

Lately, I've taken to watching Space:Above and Beyond.  Ever
watcht that one?



... How come Pizza gets to your house faster than the Police?
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

--- PCBoard (R) v15.22/M 10
 * Origin: * DataCom BBS - Baton Rouge, La. -  (504)275-2605 - @dcbbs.com *
(1:3800/25)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 102 of 195
 From : Jon Helis                           1:3800/25       .ÿò 23 .åâ 96 03:38
 To   : Jeroen Jacobs
 Subj : Re: 'bugs' in ST: Generat
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 -=> Quoting Jeroen Jacobs to All <=-

 JJ> If somebody has found other mistakes (not necessarely in
 JJ> 'generations'), please let me know.

 JJ> Greetings from The Prince of Darkness,

If you like stuff like this, you should pick up one of the
Nitpicker's Guides, there's one for TOS and TNG.  I have the TNG
version, and it has some interesting stuff in it.  Give it a try.





... "How may I be honest with you today?" --Tuvok
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

--- PCBoard (R) v15.22/M 10
 * Origin: * DataCom BBS - Baton Rouge, La. -  (504)275-2605 - @dcbbs.com *
(1:3800/25)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 103 of 195
 From : Jon Helis                           1:3800/25       .ÿò 23 .åâ 96 03:41
 To   : Dean Sweatman
 Subj : Re: CRESCENT CITY CON XI
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Thanks for the info Dean.  I cross posted it to BR Chat and LA
Chat, to help get the word out.

Sorry I missed Saturday, I didn't get the Email until around
1:00 AM on Friday!  In addition, I've been battling a cold and
allergies, and took some medicine that put me right to sleep
Saturday afternoon.  Maybe next time.

Number Six


... 90% of PC problems are located between the keyboard and the chair.
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

--- PCBoard (R) v15.22/M 10
 * Origin: * DataCom BBS - Baton Rouge, La. -  (504)275-2605 - @dcbbs.com *
(1:3800/25)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 104 of 195
 From : Jon Helis                           1:3800/25       .ÿò 23 .åâ 96 11:38
 To   : Dean Sweatman
 Subj : Re: The vision people str
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 -=> Quoting Dean Sweatman to All <=-

 DS> VISIONS '96 D.C.: A SCI-FI SUPER SHOW!
 DS>
 DS> March 23 & March 24 *** 10 am - 7 pm daily
 DS>
 DS> The Expo Center at the Ramada
 DS> 8500 Anapolis Road
 DS> New Carrollton MD
 DS> 301-459-6700
 DS>
 DS> Guests: Ethan Phillips "NEELIX" of Star Trek Voyager
 DS> Terry Farrell "DAX" of Star Trek Deep Space Nine
 DS> James Doohan "SCOTTY" of Star Trek & Next Generation
 DS> David Prowse "DARTH VADER" of Star Wars
 DS> Warwick Davis "WICKET" of Star Wars & "WILLOW" of
 DS> the film "Willow"
 DS> Mark Goddard "MAJOR WEST" of Lost in Space
 DS> World Famous Illusionists GIFFORD & ROY
 DS>
 DS> Captain's Chair from Star Trek Generations will be available for
 DS> Photos
 DS> ASK ABOUT THE SATURDAY NIGHT FORMAL RECEPTION WITH THE STARS!
 DS>
 DS> General admission $18.00  Children (5 - 12) $ 10.00
 DS>
 DS> ADVANCE TICKETS GO ON SALE 2/23/96 at 10:00 am. Call 508-255-6712.
 DS>
 DS> Call 508-240-3557 for More Information
 DS>
 DS> --
 DS> CJF Enterprises
 DS> PO Box 9075                 email: VGCA29A@PRODIGY.COM Fall River MA
 DS> 02720-0002 508-646-1324 Fax: 508-646-1325
 DS>
 DS> ** Keeper of the Captain's Chair off the Bridge of the USS
 DS> Enterprises  **
 DS> Anyone want to hazzard a wild guess what kind of money they will be
 DS> asking for this event??  Don't get me wrong Babs and I enjoyed our stay
 DS> at the last trip that they made to New Orleans but with their 9 hour
 DS> window per day getting to hear each of the guests will not be easy
 DS> unless you plan on spending both days at the show.

 DS> They added 2 hours per day and increased the price by $2.00 per day to
 DS> cover the extra time but adding the Reception on Saturday Night should
 DS> make up for any failings that they might have had in giving the
 DS> Customers a break.
 DS> I would love to know what the final tab would be for this one.

 DS> Fiawol

With all these guests on the schedule, I wonder how one will get
to see all of them, unless they go both days(and pay twice).
Remember that banquet in the evening isn't going to be free
either.

Like you, I thought the show in New Orleans was pretty good, but
not as enjoyable as Crescent City Con.  There was a message
posted recently about this, that was in response to the message
about the Star Trek Casino.  One poster commented that he was
afraid one day, fan run cons will disappear, and all that will
be left are these "Official" Infinite Visions or Creation Cons.
That would be unfortunate.

Number Six


... "We are Star-Stuff.  We are the Universe made manifest."  Delenn
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

--- PCBoard (R) v15.22/M 10
 * Origin: * DataCom BBS - Baton Rouge, La. -  (504)275-2605 - @dcbbs.com *
(1:3800/25)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 105 of 195
 From : Todd Sullivan                       1:202/720.3     .ÿò 01 .àp 96 20:50
 To   : Chris Baugh
 Subj : Westworld
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Jon Helis was kicking back and telling sea stories until Inspector General Chris
Baugh walked in and said, "Knock off with that Westworld and get back to work!"
There was no choice but to shoot Chris.

 JH>> The 1973 Michael Crichton film "Westworld" dealt with this issue
 JH>> in a very interesting way.

 JH>> Anyone who's seen it care to discuss it?

 CB> It's been a while since I've seen it, but sure, I'd be happy to
 CB> discuss what I can remember of it.

I'll take a shot at it too.  I've seen it three times in the last 34 1/2 years;
let's see how much we can remember together, eh? :^)

Todd Sullivan

... "Our country, right or wrong.  When right, to be kept right; when
     wrong, to be put right." --Carl Schurz

-*- ASTG 1.9

--- Spot 1.3a Unregistered
 * Origin: Todd's Spot in the Continuum (1:202/720.3)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 106 of 195
 From : Todd Sullivan                       1:202/720.3     .ÿò 01 .àp 96 20:55
 To   : Dion G Nethercott
 Subj : Twits among us.
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Chris Ogniben was kicking back and telling sea stories until Inspector General
Dion G Nethercott walked in and said, "Knock off with that UFO and get back to
work!"  There was no choice but to shoot Dion.

 DGN> On 3 Feb 96 02:45pm, CHRIS OGNIBEN wrote to CHRIS BAUGH:

 CO>>   I still think that you people, are morons to think that UFO's are
 CO>> real.  I mean, people  and the human race, can take drugs or drink
 CO>> beer, or just be tired or something, and see stupid lights in the sky.

 DGN>  may i see your conclusive proof please?

He's a bigoted, sexist, ignorant twit.  Ignore him.

I'm stating observed facts, Nicolai, so it's not a flame. (Yeah, right)

Todd Sullivan

... I'm sorry, but you've obviously mistaken me for someone who cares.

-*- ASTG 1.9

--- Spot 1.3a Unregistered
 * Origin: Todd's Spot in the Continuum (1:202/720.3)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 107 of 195
 From : Todd Sullivan                       1:202/720.3     .ÿò 01 .àp 96 20:59
 To   : Chris Baugh
 Subj : gray goo?
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Tommy Kellerman was kicking back and telling sea stories until Inspector General
Chris Baugh walked in and said, "Knock off with that gray goo? and get back to
work!"  There was no choice but to shoot Chris.

 TK>> And I haven't heard about the "gray-goo"-scenarios. Please explain.

 CB> The idea behind nanotechnology is that matter could be manipulated
 CB> one atom at a time to create anything.  This is currently an
 CB> unproven theory but many scientists are researching in physics,
 CB> chemistry, etc., hoping to find a breakthrough discovery.  However,
 CB> the concern is that once people start manipulating the structure of
 CB> matter, either an accident or a terrorist will create a substance
 CB> fatal to all life - a deadly "gray goo".  In case you didn't know
 CB> "goo" is sticky, disgusting mess.

Sounds like something from Arch Obler's "Chicken Heart that ate the World".

<WHO?>

Todd Sullivan

... Be original:  Don't parrot the party line.

-*- ASTG 1.9

--- Spot 1.3a Unregistered
 * Origin: Todd's Spot in the Continuum (1:202/720.3)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 108 of 195
 From : Todd Sullivan                       1:202/720.3     .ÿò 01 .àp 96 21:05
 To   : The Raven
 Subj : Bs!!
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
I was kicking back and telling sea stories until Inspector General The Raven
walked in and said, "Knock off with that Bs!! and get back to work!"  There was
no choice but to shoot The.

 TR>>      Who was it who said "A fair fight is a fight I win"?

 TS>> Sounds like any of the Heinlein books where Lazarus is featured. :^)

 TR>      Since I sent the original message, I found the source.  Teddy
 TR> Roosevelt said it.

Considering that Brian Smith is mentioned as bearing a strong resemblance to
Roosevelt, I stand by my claim. <G>

Todd Sullivan

... Revenge?  What, I have to act like a Fundie?

-*- ASTG 1.9

--- Spot 1.3a Unregistered
 * Origin: Todd's Spot in the Continuum (1:202/720.3)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 109 of 195
 From : Frank Swarbrick                     1:104/825       .óá 02 .àp 96 17:35
 To   : Michael Harper
 Subj : Dangerous Babes
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12  92-0022
On 02-28-96  09:02 my Very Good Friend Michael Harper said:

 -=> Tossing back another tequila, Frank Swarbrick told Michael Harper about
 MH> Dangerous Babes...

 FS> Is she from New Zealand?  I don't think so...  The show is shot there,
 FS> sure, but it's an American TV show, and she sure sounds American to
 FS> me.  I heard that neither Hercules nor Xena are even aired in New
 FS> Zealand.

 MH> Nope, she's Enzedd. Has one kid, shares joint custody with her
 MH> ex-husband. And she was already a star in New Zealand before Xena
 MH> ever came about. I think the shows both air down there; I'll check.

Yep, you are absolutely correct.  I just read an article about her
that says she's a New Zealander.  Oh well, one can't be right all the
time!  :-)  I know I read somewhere that neither show airs in NZ, but
perhaps that's changed.

        Frank

... People think I'm insane because I am frowning all the time.
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12
 * Origin: The Bailey Information Exchange BBS, 28.8k v.fc  (1:104/825.0)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 110 of 195
 From : Dave MacLean                        1:259/536       .cê 03 .àp 96 04:47
 To   : Rod Mammitzsch
 Subj : Sci fi
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
british sci fi hmmmm what exactly does that intail?  mainly we discuss things
like b5 & things trek. but perhaps u might want to attend our next meeting
perhaps u could bring an unusal point of view to our club should u decide to
join.  our next meeting is march 17th at 1:30pm.  write me if u should require
more info.



--- Maximus 2.01wb
 * Origin: USS Proxima = Toronto, Canada (416)265-3867 (1:259/536)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 111 of 195
 From : Todd Sullivan                       1:202/720.3     .óá 02 .àp 96 19:31
 To   : Nicolai Shapero
 Subj : AHEM!
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Chris Ogniben was kicking back and telling sea stories until Inspector General
Nicolai Shapero walked in and said, "Knock off with that AHEM! and get back to
work!"  There was no choice but to shoot Nicolai.

 CO>> that for anyone like you people, that are stupid.

 NS> Well, then, after this last comment, think of the following as
 NS> "evolution in action":

 NS> CHRIS, YOU HAVE JUST EARNED A 90 DAY SUSPENSION FROM THIS CONFERENCE.

Praised be!  There is justice!  Larry Niven wasn't quite right (TANJ).

Todd Sullivan

... Be yourself.  No one else wants the job!

-*- ASTG 1.9

--- Spot 1.3a Unregistered
 * Origin: Todd's Spot in the Continuum (1:202/720.3)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 112 of 195
 From : Todd Sullivan                       1:202/720.3     .óá 02 .àp 96 19:33
 To   : Kay Shapero
 Subj : Fan/fanatic/fancier
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
I was kicking back and telling sea stories until Inspector General Kay Shapero
walked in and said, "Knock off with that Fan/fanatic/fancier and get back to
work!"  There was no choice but to shoot Kay.

 KS> Of course - and I'm sure those who followed the fancy in Regency times
 KS> had their share of utter wackos too.  I've been to a lot of
 KS> conventions, and served on concoms (two at the moment), and have found
 KS> fandom to be essentially a culture, like any other.  A place where
 KS> "weird" is a complement, because it usually is used to mean
 KS> "imaginative" or "creative".

I've been to a few cons, but I can't make comparisons; one was Creation Con back
in '80 or '81, and one was the one our Starfleet chapter in O-Town hosted.

Todd Sullivan

... "A man may build himself a throne of bayonets, but he cannot
     sit on it." --William Inge

-*- ASTG 1.9

--- Spot 1.3a Unregistered
 * Origin: Todd's Spot in the Continuum (1:202/720.3)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 113 of 195
 From : BOB NIGHTINGALE                     1:230/74        .pä 28 .åâ 96 22:13
 To   : ANDERS DANEBO
 Subj : "Q" on VOYAGER
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 -=> Quoting Anders Danebo to Robert Lidgren <=-

 AD> A little input and a personal opinion..I can't believe they didn't put
 AD> Q in with the GENERATIONS gang...Big mistake(good movie but it should
 AD> have had Q in it...)

I was wondering if Ted Danzen would be waiting for Whoopi in the Nexus?

--Bob.


... Power corrupts. Absolute power is kinda neat, though.
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12
--- Platinum Xpress/Wildcat! v1.2f
 * Origin: Spare Time BBS * Hammond,IN * (219)845-6710 (1:230/74)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 114 of 195
 From : BOB NIGHTINGALE                     1:230/74        .pä 28 .åâ 96 22:18
 To   : TODD SULLIVAN
 Subj : syzygy
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 -=> Quoting Todd Sullivan to Chris Carter <=-


 TS> <blank stare>  No idea; you might check JPL's web sire, if the have
 TS> one.
 TS> Todd Sullivan

Only on a web sire do you need virgin control. <Grin>

--Bob.


... Now let's get back before the off-topic police catch us!
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12
--- Platinum Xpress/Wildcat! v1.2f
 * Origin: Spare Time BBS * Hammond,IN * (219)845-6710 (1:230/74)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 115 of 195
 From : BOB NIGHTINGALE                     1:230/74        .óá 02 .àp 96 10:34
 To   : JEROEN JACOBS
 Subj : 'bugs' in ST: Generat
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 -=> Quoting Jeroen Jacobs to All <=-

 JJ> If somebody has found other mistakes (not necessarely in
 JJ> 'generations'), please let me know.

The biggest mistake I found was that destroying a star could alter
the ribbon's course as precisely the time they we talking about.
True, if you remove a mass as large as a star, then a course change
could take place.  But until a significant amount of mass passes the
ribbon, the center of mass is still at the center of star's former
position.  Gaussian mechanics, remember?

I suppose Soran could have estimated the mass of ribbon by following
its trajectory around other stars.

Another problem I have is the speed of gravity.  If the gravitational
effect is the same as light and the planet in the movie was
aproximately the same distance we are from the sun, it would take
about 8 minutes for a gravitational effect to occur.

I also question the propulsion system on the missle.  If it is like
a photon torpedo with an FTL drive, wouldn't it take out more than
the launching platform when it exploded?  For it to travel 8
light-minutes in the span of 1 minute it would have to initiate a
space warp as soon as it cleared the atmosphere.  Worf could have
shot down the missle in less than a minute if the Enterprise-D hadn't
separated and crashed on the planet.

Perhaps Soran didn't anticipate a hostile space ship capable of
shooting down his missile, so it could have taken longer to traverse
that solar system.  If all Picard do was lock the clamps on the
missile launcher, then I would expect to see the missile rip the
platform apart before exploding--like the Challenger exposion in '86.
All we see in the movie is Soran's face and a big fireball.

Just my thoughts.
--Bob.
... In outer space, no one can hear you fart!
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12
--- Platinum Xpress/Wildcat! v1.2f
 * Origin: Spare Time BBS * Hammond,IN * (219)845-6710 (1:230/74)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 116 of 195
 From : BOB NIGHTINGALE                     1:230/74        .óá 02 .àp 96 10:37
 To   : BARTON PAUL LEVENSON
 Subj : Cybersex
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 -=> Quoting Barton Paul Levenson to Jon Helis <=-


 BPL> I liked Westworld, though I think the premise was pretty silly.  A
 BPL> robot with serious problems is much more likely not to work at all than
 BPL> to work dangerously.

On the contrary!  I used to have an old Honda Civic.  The sucker
wouldn't die!  It definitely worked AND it was dangerous.

--Bob.

... Data, data everywhere, and not a byte to eat!
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12
--- Platinum Xpress/Wildcat! v1.2f
 * Origin: Spare Time BBS * Hammond,IN * (219)845-6710 (1:230/74)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 117 of 195
 From : Earl Green                          1:3822/1        .cê 03 .àp 96 12:52
 To   : All
 Subj : Sliders Spoilereview
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
   /                                       /
 /                                        /
/   //////////          SLIDERS           /        "Into the Mystic"
/            ///                          //
/                                          ///
//                /             /          /    /     /        /
 ///              /   ////     /   ///     /    /    /   //    /   /////
   //////         /      /    /       /    /    /    /         /       /
        //////    /      /    /       /    /    /    /   ////  /       /
             /    /        /  /       /    /    /    //        /         /
/            /    /   ////    /       /    /    /     ///////  /   ////
//                /           //     /     /    //            /       //
 ///          /   /            //          /     //         /          //
   ///////////    ///           ///////    ///    ///////// /////       ///

/            /     /            /                  /     /           /
/            /     //////      /                  /     /   ///     /   //
/            /           /    /   ///////         /     /     /    /      /
/            /           /    /       /           //    /     /    /      /
/            /      /         /      /             //   /     /    //     /
/            /     /   ///    /     /   ///////    /    /     /     //
/       /    /     /     /    /     /         /    /    /     /      //////
//     /    /      /     /    /     /         /    /    /     /           /
 //                //         /     /         /    /    /     /           /
  //     /          ///////   ///   /         /    /    /     /         /
   //     /                         /         /    /    /     /    /
    //    /                         ///       ///  ///  ///   ///  ///////
     //   /                                                              eg

Not bad.  Could've been better, but overall, not bad.
   The amount of continuity between this episode and last season's
finale was impressive; I really wasn't expecting that.  The opening
teaser really had me going for a few moments.  The revelation that Quinn
merely got his shoulder grazed was a rare example of a well-handled
cop-out: they shouldn't have painted themselves into a storytelling
corner, but they acquitted themselves uncharacteristically well.
   The sort of goofy "witchcraft world" they visited was an interesting
if light-headed idea, though the foreshadowing of the undertaker/farmer
character - who turned out to be the Sorceror-Quinn's downfall in the
making - was very heavy-handed, unnecessary and just flat out silly.
Unless they plan on making that fellow some sort of regular adversary -
but that, IMHO, would be a disastrous mistake for Sliders.  Like Quantum
Leap, it's a show that thrives on exploring its destination each week
and then how to get away from it.  If a "villain" is introduced, it will
come across as truly insipid, much like I felt it did with the Evil
Leaper on QL.
   My only other complaint is that Arturo is being pushed into the
background.  When the show started, John Rhys-Davies and Cleavant
Derricks were the only reasons I stuck with it for the first couple of
episodes.  It took a while for Jerry O'Connell to grow on me, and
despite the fact that I learned to like him, the two adult characters
hold my attention more than the "kids."  Now, Arturo seems to be limited
to stating the obvious!  What a travesty.  This problem needs to be
solved before the show loses Rhys-Davies for good.
   Other than that, it's great to have Sliders back!  I missed this
show. 8-]
       e  <-- Earl Green (earl.green@3822-1.mx1.fidonet.org)  1:3822/1
            Graphics/animation artist, KPBI Fox 46/15 & KFDF UPN 32/36
---
 * SLMR 2.0 * Nog Prank #8: replace Odo's bucket with a short lampshade

--- QScan/PCB v1.17b / 01-0162
 * Origin: Jackalope Junction 501-785-5381 Ft Smith AR (1:3822/1)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 118 of 195
 From : Doug Cline                          1:234/97        .óá 02 .àp 96 13:05
 To   : All
 Subj : lists wanted
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
I just learned how to make windows help files so, as a little project,
I am making a help files with episode listings for Sci-Fi and related
shows. If anyone has an episode list for a show please E-mail it to me
at
DOUG.CLINE@FILECONN.ORG
What I want is lists that have one episode per line. Production
numbers and air dates are great, but please don't
send lists with multiline descriptions unless it is for some obscure
show like outer limits where a single line episode list would be hard
to come by.
The resulting help file will be made freely available.
(I will not UL LD)

Thanks in advance for any help.
Doug    O B-)

--- QScan/WC v1.18b / 01-0602
 * Origin: File Connection - Mansfield, Ohio - 419-747-4865 (1:234/97)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 119 of 195
 From : ROBERT LIDGREN                      1:134/10        .óá 02 .àp 96 23:55
 To   : CHRIS BAUGH
 Subj : TERAFORMING
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Hi Chris.

Thanks so much for sending along the terraforming information.

Would you mind sending along your e-mail address?

Cheers,

-Rob
--- PCBoard 15.2
 * Origin: 32 lines 40 Gig BBS, Realtime InterNet SLIP (403)299-9900 (1:134/10)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 120 of 195
 From : ROBERT LIDGREN                      1:134/10        .óá 02 .àp 96 23:58
 To   : BILL CLEMENTS
 Subj : TERAFORMING
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
-> I believe that there is mention of "Packet Seeder Probes" in the chronicle
-> of the society known as the State in:
->
-> 'A WORLD OUT OF TIME' (C)opyright 1976 by Larry Niven
-> 'THE INTEGRAL TREES' (C)opyright 1983 by Larry Niven
-> 'THE SMOKE RING' (C)opyright 1987 by Larry Niven
->
-> but no real detail of the process of terraforming.

Thanks for all the book references Bill!

I'll check them out.  There were several in your message I hadn't heard about
before.

Cheers,

-Rob
--- PCBoard 15.2
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Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 121 of 195
 From : ROBERT LIDGREN                      1:134/10        .óá 02 .àp 96 23:59
 To   : BARTON PAUL LEVENSON
 Subj : TERAFORMING
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
-> I did an analysis of the technical problems involved in terraforming the
-> Moon once, which was published in the local journal, SELENOLOGY.  Let me
-> know if you want a copy of my analysis.  I warn you that there's lots of
-> math...

Thanks!  I am really interested!  Please send it along to me to my e-mail
address if you are able!

Cheers,

-Rob

======================================================================
| Robert Lidgren \\\|/// * THE INNER SANCTUM | * The Old Viking      |
|                ( o o ) * Writer, Teacher   | * Seeker of the Truth |
| =========o00o====(_)====o00o=======================================|
| e-mail me at------------> robert.lidgren@bbs.logicnet.com          |
| My Personal Web Site----> http://www.logicnet.com/robert.lidgren   |
======================================================================
--- PCBoard 15.2
 * Origin: 32 lines 40 Gig BBS, Realtime InterNet SLIP (403)299-9900 (1:134/10)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 122 of 195
 From : Robert Siemborski                   1:2604/214      .óá 24 .åâ 96 10:45
 To   : All
 Subj : B5 -> Voyager Connection?
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Is it just me or was the person who played Brother Edward (the black rose
killer) in Passing Through Gesename (spelling?) on babylon 5 the same person who
make tuvok go nuts on that recent voyager episode?  It's a strange coincidence
if they are the same person...  The parts were very similar.

- Rob -

--- SLMAIL v4.5a  (#1409)
 * Origin: Bits 'N Bytes BBS - Leonia, NJ - (201) 346-1661 - 28.8k Connections!
(1:2604/214)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 123 of 195
 From : Robert Siemborski                   1:2604/214      .åò 29 .åâ 96 07:05
 To   : All
 Subj : Recent Nowhere-Man Episode
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Any thoughts on the recent flashback Nowhere Man episode?   I found it
interesting to say the least.  What do you think the conspirisy wanted to find
out?  Why did he never take the picture the way he thought?  What really
happened?  Any thoughts please let me know.

- Rob -

--- SLMAIL v4.5a  (#1409)
 * Origin: Bits 'N Bytes BBS - Leonia, NJ - (201) 346-1661 - 28.8k Connections!
(1:2604/214)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 124 of 195
 From : Robert Siemborski                   1:2604/214      .cê 03 .àp 96 11:05
 To   : All
 Subj : Babylon 5 - Point of no return
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
For those of you who havn't seen point of no return...
^
^
^
^
^
^
^
^
^
^
^
SPOILER SPACE - Skip your message now...
v
v
v
v
v
v
v
v
v
v
v
v
v
v
v

OK...  Now I just watched that very fine episode and loved it alot!!!! Great
episode!  I noticed a few things though and wanted to see what people thought on
them, basically start up another B5 discussion that seems to have
dissapeared....

* G'Kar was LIGHTING candles for once.  I remember reading somewhere that this
was a sign of hope.  The last time we saw an expression of G'Kar and his candles
was when he squished the last one out as Narn fell....  Is this a symbol of
false hope, or is JMS foreshadowing something good about to happen?  I think its
the former...

* The end of the episode was kind of somber, what does this leave in store for
Babylon 5 with earth, and what is going to happen?  Most importantally, how is
Babylon 5 going to react/survive to an attack by Earth?  There is the starfury
vs. starfury duel in the opening credits, but this tells nothing of what will or
won't happen to B5 itself...

* Is this related to the rest of the Babylon Squared (they find B4) storyline
that will be resolved in War Without End at the end of this season?  Is this
perhaps the reason they need B4?

* The people were happy when General Hague's (spelling?) cruiser escaped from
the pursuing ones.  Does this mean that B5 will be able to win the support of
the humans on board?

* How long will G'Kar continue to believe that what he saw was G'Quan
(spelling?), or will Kosh never reveal himself to G'Kar?  Perhaps G'Kar is
better off not knowing, being that he has written (while in jail) the future
Book of G'Kar...

* How exactly are the shadows and morden connected with EarthGov? It is almost
for sure that they are connected with PsiCorps, but are they also in the
Ministry of peace as well?  Of coures, Morden has contact with the president
(from Ivonava's vision in the Machine a few weeks ago...)

Any other ideas or questions or answers, please post them!

- Rob -

--- SLMAIL v4.5a  (#1409)
 * Origin: Bits 'N Bytes BBS - Leonia, NJ - (201) 346-1661 - 28.8k Connections!
(1:2604/214)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 125 of 195
 From : John Giannini                       1:119/50        .îí 04 .àp 96 14:51
 To   : Kay Shapero
 Subj : FILK MODERATOR
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On 22 Feb 96, Kay Shapero wrote to ROBERT LIDGREN:

 RL>> What's the name of the FILK node?  I certainly will drop in.

 KS> That's the FILK echo, the tagname is FILK, and it can be picked up off
 KS> the backbone in Zone 1.  Hope you can join in the fun!

Interesting.  *I* was temporarily barred from this echo because Nicolai said
that mentioning/advertising another echo in *this* echo represents an off topic
subject, and I confronted him for the pettiness of that policy.  (I believe it
was the Starman echo that caused the problem).   Now here is the moderator's
wife(?) talking about (and inadvertainly advertising) another echo on *this*
echo.  Hmmm....

I haven't really even visited this echo for 6 months.  Is it actually possible
that the moderator considered the wisdom of my prior position after the fact and
changed his position, and I've only found out now?  Or if not, perhaps moderator
wives are allowed more leeway in such things than the rest of us? Hmmmm.  Maybe
I should read this echo more often.  Things change too quickly here.

--- GoldED 2.50
 * Origin:  The Moonshadow :*: 916.343.0534 :*: Chico, CA :*: (1:119/50)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 126 of 195
 From : John Giannini                       1:119/50        .îí 04 .àp 96 14:46
 To   : Jaimie Park
 Subj : x-files
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
23 Feb 96, Tam Phan writes to Jaimie Park:

 JP>> hello, this is jaimie park and i'm calling out to all those
 JP>> x-philes across the country.  i'm dying for some stimulating
 JP>> conversation about the show with someone who actually knows what
 JP>> they're talking about. please contact me.

There is an X-Files national echo....Lotsa talk of the show there...

--- GoldED 2.50
 * Origin:  The Moonshadow :*: 916.343.0534 :*: Chico, CA :*: (1:119/50)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 127 of 195
 From : John Giannini                       1:119/50        .îí 04 .àp 96 14:52
 To   : Mark Jones
 Subj : Cybersex
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On 21 Feb 96, Mark Jones wrote to Jon Helis:

 MJ> Steve Austin's bionic limbs and Commander Data's android body can
 MJ> *either* be quite obviously artificial--including the easy-open
 MJ> ports--or they can be realistic enough for close contact without being
 MJ> detectable.  But not both.

Did you see the 2nd episode of the first season of Showtime's new Outer Limits
show, where a female robot who was programmed to be just a companion to the main
character of the story ended up developing emotions, even emotions like
jealousy?  It showed that not only can a cybernetic being blur the line - be
both robotic enough for robotic repairs, *and* human enough to have sex with -
but it can also blur the line between *behavior*, making the leap from
programming to true emotiveness and humanity.  In the end, the female cybernetic
being became so jealous of the main character's real girlfriend, she tried to
kill her.  The episode caused one to wonder where the real line is - or will be
- when such technology exists...

--- GoldED 2.50
 * Origin:  The Moonshadow :*: 916.343.0534 :*: Chico, CA :*: (1:119/50)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 128 of 195
 From : Todd Sullivan                       1:202/720.3     .cê 03 .àp 96 15:18
 To   : Frank Glover
 Subj : Alien threats?
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
The Raven was kicking back and telling sea stories until Inspector General Frank
Glover walked in and said, "Knock off with that Alien threats? and get back to
work!"  There was no choice but to shoot Frank.

 FG>    ".....are irrelevant." This brings to mind the Borg, who are a fine
 FG> example of what you're saying.
 FG>
 FG>    And even Locutius said something about; "We only want to increase
 FG> the quality of life." And Worf said someting along the lines of; "I
 FG> don't *want* my quality of life increased!" (working from memory, now
 FG> mind you)
 FG>
 FG>   Some civilizations are nasty, and know it. Others percieve themselves
 FG> as doing good. The latter could be the worst ones....

Given our experiences on this planet, and some examples in fiction (Harrison
Bergeron, TNG's "Half a Life), I'd say the latter *are* worse: They're on a
mission from God.

Todd Sullivan

... "Two problems of our country--energy and malaise." --Jimmy Carter

-*- ASTG 1.9

--- Spot 1.3a Unregistered
 * Origin: Todd's Spot in the Continuum (1:202/720.3)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 129 of 195
 From : Jon Helis                           1:3800/25       .cê 03 .àp 96 23:39
 To   : All
 Subj : Star Command
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Has anyone heard about Star Command that's airing on UPN next
week in Voyager's timeslot?  What's it supposed to be about?
Anyone seen a review?

Please write back.



... Ignorance is no excuse for the law.
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

--- PCBoard (R) v15.22/M 10
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(1:3800/25)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 130 of 195
 From : Jay Solo                            1:101/175       .pä 28 .åâ 96 08:29
 To   : Kim Wheat
 Subj : Re: TERAFORMING
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 -=> Quoting Kim Wheat to Robert Lidgren <=-

 RL> Here's a question for readers of SF out there. Have you read any
 RL> good books or short stories containing the process of
 RL> TERRAFORMING? The process was used in a Star Trek movie but I
 RL> want to explore the idea further in fiction.

 KW> Or pick up Kim Stanley Robinson's on-going Mars series....
 KW> RED MARS
 KW> GREEN MARS....(are both out now)
 KW> BLUE MARS....not out yet

Awesome books!  I can hardly wait for BLUE MARS.  (Almost as bad as
waiting for A CROWN OF SWORDS.)

These are exactly what I thought to recommend when I saw the question posed.

... Progress is not created by contented People FRANK TYGER
--- Blue Wave v2.10 [NR]
 * Origin: TANGENT BBS 617/364-1576 Boston MA vader.com (1:101/175)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 131 of 195
 From : Mike Tilley                         1:362/669       .îí 04 .àp 96 18:51
 To   : Dungeon Master
 Subj : LORD
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
It was me that asked you about not being able to get into my LORD character.
I was playing it one day then two days later I could not get in. My character
Thundar is still on the list. If you can't help I will understand.
Thanks,
Ricochet


--- Maximus 3.00
 * Origin: The Dungeon...Open 24-hours...<423>875-4137 (1:362/669)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 132 of 195
 From : Ken Mayes                           1:393/7         .òp 05 .àp 96 07:45
 To   : Frank Glover
 Subj : Re: 'bugs' in ST: Generations
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On Sun  3-Mar-1996  2:17p, Frank Glover said to Chris Baughp:

FG>
FG> CB>   FG> The lighting wasn't too good either. Looked like sodium vapor
FG> CB>   FG> street lamps...
FG> CB>
FG> CB>  Did it look to you like 10-forward was all yellow, rather than a
FG> CB>  white room?
FG>
FG>    That, the corridors, the Captain's quaters....
FG>
FG>    That's close to what sodium-vapor lights would do. (As opposed to  the
FG> bluish light of mercury-vapor street lamps.) I suppose I'm spoiled  by the
FG> clear lighting used on the series. I can understand it being  a little
FG> more subdued than that (espically in the ship's `night' cycle)  but not
FG> *that* bad.....
FG>
FG>    Frank
FG>


        I think the effect they were going for was to dramatise the result of
the light from the yellow star they were orbitting filtering in through the
windows. If you think about it, it only makes sense. The series never took into
consideratioon the effects of ambiant light within a solar system on a room with
windows.



--- CNet/3
 * Origin: The Bard's Tavern Denton, TX (817)243-5110 USR 28.8   (1:393/7)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 133 of 195
 From : John Arnold                         3:632/103       .òp 27 .åâ 96 08:19
 To   : Mark Jones
 Subj : Re: Alien threats?
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
--- Maximus/2 3.00
 * Origin: Decadence BBS (3:632/103)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 134 of 195
 From : John Arnold                         3:632/103       .òp 27 .åâ 96 08:30
 To   : Mark Jones
 Subj : Re: Alien threats?
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Hi Mark,

 MJ>> No argument.  But the moron in question seems to think that any
 MJ>> aliens who come knocking on our door will *necessarily* be
 MJ>> physically stronger (by a wide margin) than we are.  Which is a
 MJ>> load of steaming
 MJ>> ****, frankly.  Nobody knows.
 MJ>> That any aliens who can cross interstellar space to kick sand in
 MJ>> our faces will be more advanced scientifically than we are I don't
 MJ>> dispute.  We can't do it.  If they can, obviously they've learned
 MJ>> something we don't know yet.

Or found it by chance.
I remember a story where the aliens come to Earth to trade a FTL drive
for own TV transmission tech after we send a probe to their planet.
They couldn't transmit the quality pics that we could with our probes...

Can't remember who wrote it but a little voice in the back of my head
says A C Clarke...

BFN,
    John.

--- Maximus/2 3.00
 * Origin: Decadence BBS (3:632/103)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 135 of 195
 From : John Arnold                         3:632/103       .åò 29 .åâ 96 15:46
 To   : Robert Lidgren
 Subj : Teraforming
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Hi Robert,

>Here's a question for readers of SF out there.  Have you
>read any good books or
>short stories containing the process of TERRAFORMING?  The process was
>used in a Star Trek movie but I want to explore the idea further in
>fiction. TERRAFORMING is the process of turning an unihabitable  planet
>into one with the environmentet suitable for human habitation without
>the need for life-support, self-contained air-supply, protective suits,
>etc.

You could try Manhattan Transfer by John E Stith.
It doesn't go into how the terraforming is done.
It's more about how a city of humans stop aliens from
terraforming Earth...

Also the Mars books by Kim Stanley Robinson.
Red Mars, Green Mars and Blue Mars.
Blue Mars isn't out yet but is meamt to be RSN...

You could also try Farmer In The Sky by Robert A Heinlein or
Against Infinity by Gregory Benford.  Both are more or less the same
story, but one using machines and the other using genetic engineered
animals...  I think the RAH version was the better done of the two.
But than again I was a lot younger when I read RAH's version and only
read GB's version last year...

BFN,
    John.

--- Maximus/2 3.00
 * Origin: Decadence BBS (3:632/103)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 136 of 195
 From : Bryan Malone                        1:170/810.12    .îí 04 .àp 96 13:19
 To   : Frank Glover
 Subj : 'bugs' in ST: Generations
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On (03 Mar 96) Frank Glover wrote to Marco Catalano...
Ok.. I got one.. The crew of the Big E is really dead.

Why?

The nexus would let you go anywhere and do or be anything you desired
right?  But you were still in the nexus!  The only reason others had
"escaped" was because they were beamed out.

So Picard's second desire was to fix what he messed up.  So he fixed
it.. and thus saved that Solar System.  But it's just a nexus "dream"
He's still in there..  They never said you could will yourself out.
He's stuck...

So everything we see from now on is a dream Picard's having.. Even DS9
since they have brought in Mr. Dorn.. (cause Worf died with the
others) and  ST: Voyager as well.. cause Q brought in Riker..

Or at least my Klingon side likes to believe that.. <G>

... "Ever walk into a Denny's at 3 AM?  Looks like the bar in Star Wars!"

--- PPoint 2.00
 * Origin: The Noble Asecnsion's Big Chair (1:170/810.12)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 137 of 195
 From : Dean Sweatman                       1:396/40        .pä 06 .àp 96 06:39
 To   : All
 Subj : COASTCON XIX Publicity Up
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: InterEcho 1.17 6E010867
 * Originally By: Palewood@aol.com
 * Originally To: Dean Sweatman
 * Originally Re: COASTCON XIX Publicity Up
 * Original Date: 03-05-96  14:30
 * Original Area: i.uucp.email
 * Forwarded by : Blue Wave/DOS v2.20

From: Palewood@aol.com
To: wapt@misnet.com, WLOXTV@aol.com, WNOLTV@aol.com, PaulaPWGNO@aol.com, Date:
Tue, 5 Mar 1996 21:30:51 -0500 Subject: COASTCON XIX Publicity Update

Sadly, we must announce that, as of March 5, 1996, GARY GRAHAM has had to cancel
as our Special Guest at COASTCON. The shooting schedule for the next ALIEN
NATION movie has been moved up several weeks, resulting in a schedule conflict.

BUT THERE IS PLENTY OF GOOD NEWS, TOO! :) For those of you who just tuned in...

Governor Kirk Fordice has officially proclaimed the month of March 1996 as
COASTCON MONTH in the state of Mississippi!

Biloxi Mayor A. J. Holloway has graciously consented to "officially" open the
festivities at COASTCON on Friday, March 22, 1996.

JOHN DOLLAR replaces Tony DiTerlizzi as Artist Guest of Honor.

AND we are pleased to welcome Astronomer CHRISTIAN READY of the Hubble Space
Telescope Science Institute!

BABYLON 5 fans take note! COASTCON's guest list now includes "MOJO", Supervising
Visual Effects Animator for Foundation Imaging! (And get a sneak-peek at F.I.'s
new ABC series HYPERNAUTS, too!)

Fantasy Author and noted Game Designer AARON ALSTON returns to COASTCON--and
will be reading from his current novel, "Sidhe Devil"!

New Orleans Artist Extraordinaire HUGO MONTERO will demonstrate his unique
technique--you have to see it to believe it! (We needed the Fire Marshal for
this one!)
                                         For Further information, please
contact:

Niels W. Erickson
Palewood@aol.com


... Dean Sweatman's Continuing and Relentless quest toward Fuggheadedness

___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20 [NR]


--- InterEcho 1.17
 * Origin: REUNION BBS, Harahan, La., USA (504) 738-5162 Try God (1:396/40)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 138 of 195
 From : Nicolai Shapero                     1:102/524       .òp 05 .àp 96 06:35
 To   : Barton Paul Levenson
 Subj : Alternative energy sources
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
The subject line was NUCLEAR BS.  Now you've changed the subject line, but not
the true topic.  It is OFF TOPIC and has been officially declared so.  Please
stop posting to this subject.

Thank you for your cooperation,

-- Nicolai Shapero, Moderator of the SFFAN echo

--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 139 of 195
 From : Nicolai Shapero                     1:102/524       .òp 05 .àp 96 06:37
 To   : ROBERT LIDGREN
 Subj : TERAFORMING
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Mar 02 23:59>, ROBERT LIDGREN (1:134/10) wrote to BARTON PAUL LEVENSON:

 RL>=================================================================
 RL>=====
 RL>| Robert Lidgren \\\|/// * THE INNER SANCTUM | * The Old Viking
 RL>|
 RL>|                ( o o ) * Writer, Teacher   | * Seeker of the
 RL>Truth |
 RL>|
 RL>=========o00o====(_)====o00o=====================================
 RL>==|
 RL>| e-mail me at------------> robert.lidgren@bbs.logicnet.com
 RL>|
 RL>| My Personal Web Site---->
 RL>http://www.logicnet.com/robert.lidgren   |
 RL>=================================================================
 RL>=====

Multiple line sigs of this sort are more the rule than the exception on the
Internet.  However, on Fidonet, where the cost of carrying the echoes is paid by
individuals as part of their hobby and not as part of a "for profit" business,
it is not.  On this conference, they are specifically forbidden.

Thank you for your cooperation,

-- Nicolai Shapero, Moderator of the SFFAN echo


--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 140 of 195
 From : Kay Shapero                         1:102/524       .òp 05 .àp 96 22:33
 To   : Todd Sullivan
 Subj : Fan/fanatic/fancier
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Mar 02 19:33>, Todd Sullivan (1:202/720.3) wrote to Kay Shapero:

 TS>I've been to a few cons, but I can't make comparisons; one was
 TS>Creation Con back in '80 or '81, and one was the one our
 TS>Starfleet chapter in O-Town hosted.

The second one was probably closer to what I tend to think of as a convention -
the Creation things and similar phenomena are more like professional shows for
which you buy tickets to come and be the audience.  I much prefer the fan-run
conventions where you pay for memberships to come and be the convention; sorta
like a really big party.  Was the Starfleet one a Star Trek convention, or a
general sf convention?  I cut my teeth on Equicons (fan-run convention with a
strong ST presense, but by no means limited to Trek), Westercons, LOScons and
whatnot.  Haven't been to a Worldcon for years since they got so big they just
weren't as much fun any more.  The sort of place where you can sit in the
convention lounge discussing the whichness of the wherefore or how to build a
beer can tower to the Moon (I rather like the bheerstalk myself - you take this
nice looong monofiliment cable and stack bheercans around it and... but I
digress).

... I am Dyslexia of Borg, Prepare to have your ass laminated

--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 141 of 195
 From : Kay Shapero                         1:102/524       .òp 05 .àp 96 22:23
 To   : Robert Siemborski
 Subj : Babylon 5 - Point of no return
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Mar 03 11:05>, Robert Siemborski (1:2604/214) wrote to All:

 RS>For those of you who havn't seen point of no return...
 RS>^
 RS>^
 RS>^
 RS>^
 RS>^
 RS>^
 RS>^
 RS>^
 RS>^
 RS>^
 RS>^
 RS>SPOILER SPACE - Skip your message now...
 RS>v
 RS>v
 RS>v
 RS>v
 RS>v
 RS>v
 RS>v
 RS>v
 RS>v
 RS>v
 RS>v
 RS>v
 RS>v
 RS>v
 RS>v

 RS>OK...  Now I just watched that very fine episode and loved it
 RS>alot!!!! Great episode!  I noticed a few things though and wanted
 RS>to see what people thought on them, basically start up another B5
 RS>discussion that seems to have dissapeared....

By all means let's keep it up in here - and if you want a LOT of B5 discussion,
consider picking up the BABYLON5 echo - it's on the FIDO backbone same as this
thingie.

 RS>* G'Kar was LIGHTING candles for once.  I remember reading
 RS>somewhere that this was a sign of hope.  The last time we saw an
 RS>expression of G'Kar and his candles was when he squished the last
 RS>one out as Narn fell....  Is this a symbol of false hope, or is
 RS>JMS foreshadowing something good about to happen?  I think its
 RS>the former...

I think it's mostly a symbol of G'Kar having regained his own feelings of hope,
even if what he hopes for has been changed.  He acts like a man who's been
released from heavy stress.  I think something good will happen - however I also
think a lot of not-so-good is going to happen first.

 RS>Most importantally, how is Babylon 5 going to react/survive to an
 RS>attack by Earth?  There is the starfury vs. starfury duel in the
 RS>opening credits, but this tells nothing of what will or won't
 RS>happen to B5 itself...

I was surprised when they got out of this one without making the break - if
Severed Dreams doesn't cause it I don't know what will.

 RS>* Is this related to the rest of the Babylon Squared (they find
 RS>B4) storyline that will be resolved in War Without End at the end
 RS>of this season?  Is this perhaps the reason they need B4?

Actually there are several more episodes after War Without End before we reach
the end of the season proper - though it looks like the Idiots That Be are going
to make us wait through the summer for the last few eps.  Again..  Here's what
I've got for the rest of this season.

Severed Dreams
Ceremonies of Light and Dark
A Late Delivery from Avalon
Sic Transit Vir
Ship of Tears
Interludes and Examinations
War Without End, Part 1
War Without end, Part 2
Walkabout
Grey 17 is Missing
And the Rock Cried Out, No Hiding Place
Shadow Dancing
[one more episode JMS won't tell us the title for]

 RS>* The people were happy when General Hague's (spelling?) cruiser
 RS>escaped from the pursuing ones.  Does this mean that B5 will be
 RS>able to win the support of the humans on board?

I think it means that Clarke is not as popular as he'd like to be.  When it
comes to actual breakaway though... who knows?

 RS>* How long will G'Kar continue to believe that what he saw was
 RS>G'Quan (spelling?), or will Kosh never reveal himself to G'Kar?
 RS>Perhaps G'Kar is better off not knowing, being that he has
 RS>written (while in jail) the future Book of G'Kar...

I'm not completely convinced the Vorlons didn't have a hand in G'Quan's era
either...  In any case, no, I don't think Kosh will ever tell him.  I think the
Vorlons are far too self-protective (verging on the paranoid) for that which may
explain why the're still around, come to think of it. :->

Free RMES!  One to a customer...

--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 142 of 195
 From : Mark Jones                          1:105/302.47    .cê 03 .àp 96 23:39
 To   : Frank Glover
 Subj : 'bugs' in ST: Generations
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On (01 Mar 96) Frank Glover wrote to The Raven...

 FG>   I'm inclined to agree, but it wouldn't be the first time. Unless
 FG> there's been some major internal upgrades since Kirk's time, the E-D
 FG> should've had an easier time against the three BOP's in `Yesterday's
 FG> Enterprise' as well....

   Perhaps it should have, but tactics enter into such situations as
well.  A friend of mine videotaped the episode and counted the shots
fired.  Enterprise was hit well over twenty times before they fired
back even once.  Worse, when they Enterprise *does* shoot back,
usually they fire once or twice, then stop...to assess the results
and/or try to talk.

   The Klingons, meanwhile, send three ships, which work together to
hammer the living daylights out of the enemy with *non-stop* barrages
of fire.  Sure, Enterprise-D is a superior vessel--but the Klingons
have vastly superior tactics and strategy.
   It comes as no surprise to *me* that the Klingons were kicking the
Federation's butt in that timeline!


--- PPoint 1.78
 * Origin: Folcroft Sanitarium (hsmith@cure.com) (1:105/302.47)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 143 of 195
 From : Patricia Taber                      1:141/1135      .òp 05 .àp 96 05:36
 To   : Tam Phan
 Subj : Sliders!
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
TP>Sliders is back on FOX! This Friday, before X-Files.

TP>YesYesYesYesYesYes...

  I was so upset when it was gone. I had an Opening to go to last Friday
and missed the first half... and hubby forgot to tape it. Had tape all
set up and everything! MEN!

---
þ CmpQwk #UNREGþ UNREGISTERED EVALUATION COPY

--- OverMail v0.82b
 * Origin: UXB Info-Serve - BBSList & BFDS FDN Headqtrs (1:141/1135)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 144 of 195
 From : Glenn Shaheen                       1:3600/7        .îí 04 .àp 96 06:19
 To   : Jeroen Jacobs
 Subj : 'bugs' in ST: Generations
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
        Why did Picard drag Kirk up to the top of the mountain and
find all thosse rocks to bury him?

        If ya want bugs in Generations, try buying The Nitpicker's
guide to Star Trek:The Next Generation Volume 2. It also has series 7
bugs to. Volume one has 1-6.
-=-
 * KMD PRO * GUM, Stick of: An explosive substance. See also MACGYVER

--- SLMAIL v3.5C  (#1540)
 * Origin: Robotech þ Lake City's Music*Demo BBS þ [904] 758*9477 (1:3600/7)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 145 of 195
 From : Gerry Normandeau                    1:163/430       .îí 04 .àp 96 12:21
 To   : Frank Glover
 Subj : Re: 'bugs' in ST: Genera
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Swinging from the gallows pole The Raven was heard to whisper to Frank Glover,
Re: 'bugs' in ST: Generat!!!!

@RND@>
@RND@>      In "The Search For Spock", Kruge remarks that the Enterprise
@RND@> easily
@RND@> outguns the Bird of Prey.  Logically, the Enterprise-D does the same,
@RND@> even
@RND@> with relatively modern (to a Next Generation starfleet member) Bird
@RND@> of Prey.
@RND@> But instead of hitting the Bird of Prey as hard as possible and
@RND@> cracking
@RND@> the Klingon's shields like an eggshell, the Enterprise barely
@RND@> responds to
@RND@> the attack.
@RND@>
@RND@>      I wanna know *why*...
@RND@>
@RND@>I'm inclined to agree, but it wouldn't be the first time.
@RND@>Unless there's been some major internal upgrades since
@RND@>Kirk's time, the E-D should've had an easier time against
@RND@>the three BOP's in `Yesterday's Enterprise' as well....

|_______________________________________________________________________________
_______________________________________________

I rewatched the episode "Yesterday's Enterprise" and did a bit of
tecnical research. I found that the Bird of Pray desigin is used
in scout class, destroyer class and cruiser class. What hit the
Enterprise in "Yesterday's ..." were 3 Ka'vort class cruisers. These
crusers are just a step below the Vor'cha class battle cruiser.


Gerry.Normandeau@Offsprng.Takeone.co <<>> Royal Hangman To His Majesty
                                          King Bruno The Questionable
... AD&D FLW: "What do you mean `The kobolds have battlemechs'!!?!"
___
 * TLX v4.10 *
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

--- Maximus 2.01wb
 * Origin: Watership Down BBS, Kanata , ON (1:163/430)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 146 of 195
 From : Ronald de Graaf                     2:282/529.99    .îí 04 .àp 96 19:05
 To   : Jeroen Jacobs
 Subj : Re: 'bugs' in ST: Generations
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
according to Ziggy, its 22 Feb 96 and you leaped into Jeroen Jacobs saying to
All:

 JJ> If somebody has found other mistakes (not necessarely in
 JJ> 'generations'), please let me know.

Try and get a hold of the books:

The Nitpickers guide for Next Generation Trekkers &
"       "       "    "   Classic Trekkers

hundreds of pages with Mistakes, Bloopers & changed Premesis for the old ST
series & The Next Generation series...  Great fun!

Ronald de graaf

--- Spot 1.3a Unregistered
 * Origin: ALLE FLIPPOS NAAR FLIPPO.028!!  0503188054 (2:282/529.99@FIDO)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 147 of 195
 From : Todd Sullivan                       1:202/720.3     .îí 04 .àp 96 20:11
 To   : James Walton
 Subj : help!
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Mitch Obrecht was kicking back and telling sea stories until Inspector General
James Walton walked in and said, "Knock off with that help! and get back to
work!"  There was no choice but to shoot James.

 JW> There is a book called "The Forever War" by Joe Haldeman.  The main
 JW> character
 JW> spends a lot of time traveling at the speed of light, so Earth ages a
 JW> couple
 JW> hundred years while he is away.  He is placed in command of a group of
 JW> soldier from his "future."  They call him "The Old Queer" because he is
 JW> hetero and they are all gay.  Being gay was in vogue because it didn't
 JW> create children.

As I recall, they used cloning after a certain point.  It made the news in the
story because the two "mains" got married and had a kid.  Nice commentary on "O
Tempora!  O Mores!", I thought.

Todd Sullivan

... Macintosh:  An Apple of dubious value and distiction.

-*- ASTG 1.9

--- Spot 1.3a Unregistered
 * Origin: Todd's Spot in the Continuum (1:202/720.3)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 148 of 195
 From : Todd Sullivan                       1:202/720.3     .îí 04 .àp 96 20:14
 To   : BOB NIGHTINGALE
 Subj : syzygy
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
I was kicking back and telling sea stories until Inspector General BOB
NIGHTINGALE walked in and said, "Knock off with that syzygy and get back to
work!"  There was no choice but to shoot BOB.

 TS>> <blank stare>  No idea; you might check JPL's web sire, if the have
 TS>> one.

 BN> Only on a web sire do you need virgin control. <Grin>

Kinda figures; I get syzygy spelled right, but goof up the easy ones.

Todd Sullivan

... Talk is cheap.  Using a modem gets expensive.

-*- ASTG 1.9

--- Spot 1.3a Unregistered
 * Origin: Todd's Spot in the Continuum (1:202/720.3)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 149 of 195
 From : Todd Sullivan                       1:202/720.3     .îí 04 .àp 96 20:17
 To   : The Raven
 Subj : Fan/fanatic/fancier
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
I was kicking back and telling sea stories until Inspector General The Raven
walked in and said, "Knock off with that Fan/fanatic/fancier and get back to
work!"  There was no choice but to shoot The.

 TS>> Come on, Kay; you've been to a convention or two, haven't you?
 TS>> You see both kinds, plus the *really* wierd ones, if you get my drift.
 TS>> Ook, ook, drool. <snicker>

 TR>      Do you remember the geekwad in the Captain Kirk shirt who I almost
 TR> threw
 TR> through a window because he wouldn't leave KT alone?  Or were you at
 TR> that convention...

No, I wasn't, and I certainly would have remembered.

FYI, I've been to a total of two (perhaps three) in my life.

Todd Sullivan

... "Nature does nothing uselessly." --Aristotle

-*- ASTG 1.9

--- Spot 1.3a Unregistered
 * Origin: Todd's Spot in the Continuum (1:202/720.3)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 150 of 195
 From : Todd Sullivan                       1:202/720.3     .îí 04 .àp 96 20:23
 To   : Frank Glover
 Subj : TERAFORMING
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Barton Paul Levenson was kicking back and telling sea stories until Inspector
General Frank Glover walked in and said, "Knock off with that TERAFORMING and
get back to work!"  There was no choice but to shoot Frank.

 FG>    Actually, with the stable platform, low gravity and vacuum all the
 FG> way to the surface, I submit that for future industrial and research
 FG> purposes, theMoon is more valuable as it is. I wouldn't terraform it,
 FG> even if I could.
 FG>
 FG>    Now Mars on the other hand.....

The main problems with Mars and the Moon are size; nowhere near enough mass to
hold air at all (moon) or at SAP (Mars).  It'll be domes/underground until the
gravitational constant changes in our favor. :^)

Todd Sullivan

... "M-m-m-My Balogna!" --"Wierd Al" Yankovic

-*- ASTG 1.9

--- Spot 1.3a Unregistered
 * Origin: Todd's Spot in the Continuum (1:202/720.3)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 151 of 195
 From : Frank Glover                        1:2613/477      .pä 06 .àp 96 21:11
 To   : John Giannini
 Subj : Re: Cybersex
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

JG>  to kill her.  The episode caused one to wonder where the real line is
JG>  - or will be - when such technology exists...

   You might want to look up Grant Fjermedal's `The Tomorrow Makers' (chaper 15
`Sleeping with Robots') for some possibilites.

   The movie `Cherry 2000' takes an interesting look at this too, but Cherry
seems deliberately limited to being a kind of robotic geshia, rather than al
all-round AI. It seems a `machine' as intelligent as a human, and as such, a
worthwhile companion, is also sophisticated enough to have its own ideas on
companionship. (See the classic Trek episode `Requeium for Methusalah' with
James Daily as Flint, and his companion Rayna.) And of course there's Data in
`The Measure of a Man,' where, among other things, we got a glimpse of
sentimental `feelings' for the late Tasha Yar. (You may remember the episode
with the exposure to that disinhibiting virus, where they....well, you know.)

   Frank


--- QuickBBS 2.80 GoldBase (Zeta-1)
 * Origin: The Matrix Data Bank BBS, Rochester, Ny (1:2613/477)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 152 of 195
 From : ROBERT LIDGREN                      1:134/10        .pä 06 .àp 96 18:46
 To   : ALL
 Subj : WOMEN AND SF
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
BTW:

When all the discussion about Women and Science Fiction was going on were their
any replies from women?

I would like to hear their P.O.V. too.

This is especially true about the role of women in LEADERSHIP roles.

I've already expressed my views which tend to be supportive of people in
virtually any role if they are competent to carry it out.

Cheers,

-Rob
--- PCBoard 15.2
 * Origin: 32 lines 40 Gig BBS, Realtime InterNet SLIP (403)299-9900 (1:134/10)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 153 of 195
 From : Frank Glover                        1:2613/477      .òp 05 .àp 96 21:53
 To   : Bryan Malone
 Subj : Re: 'bugs' in ST: Generations
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

BM>  On (03 Mar 96) Frank Glover wrote to Marco Catalano...
BM>  Ok.. I got one.. The crew of the Big E is really dead.
BM>
BM>  Why?
BM>
BM>  The nexus would let you go anywhere and do or be anything you desired
BM>  right?  But you were still in the nexus!  The only reason others had
BM>  "escaped" was because they were beamed out.

   (additional explanation deleted for brevity)

   Maybe. The quoting got messed up along the way. I never objected to the fact
that the Enterprise saucer section, and everyone on it were destroyed. The
nature of the Nexus let Picard and Kirk come back just before that, and prevent
it. I have no problem with an acknowledged change in the timeline. I think the
other guy did, butI was responding to another part of his message....

   Frank


--- QuickBBS 2.80 GoldBase (Zeta-1)
 * Origin: The Matrix Data Bank BBS, Rochester, Ny (1:2613/477)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 154 of 195
 From : Kim Wheat                           1:275/102       .pä 06 .àp 96 17:11
 To   : Jay Solo
 Subj : Re: TERAFORMING
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
---<<*<<< Jay dazzled Buc Wheat with these words of wisdom!! >>>**>>----

 KW> Or pick up Kim Stanley Robinson's on-going Mars series....
 KW> RED MARS
 KW> GREEN MARS....(are both out now)
 KW> BLUE MARS....not out yet

 JS> Awesome books!  I can hardly wait for BLUE MARS.  (Almost as bad as
 JS> waiting for A CROWN OF SWORDS.)
 JS> These are exactly what I thought to recommend when I saw the question
 JS> posed.

 I've only read RED MARS so far....have GREEN MARS on the ole stack
 and should get to it (hopefully before BLUE shows up!!) <g>

 Kim :)

___ Blue Wave/DOS v2.30

--- PCBoard (R) v15.22/M 10
 * Origin: SelectiveSource VirginiaBeach,VA 804 471 6776 (1:275/102)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 155 of 195
 From : John Aldrich                        1:362/669       .pä 06 .àp 96 13:35
 To   : Mike Tilley
 Subj : LORD
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Hello Mike!

Answering a msg of <Monday March 04 1996>, from Mike Tilley to Dungeon Master:
This is an international area, so I replied in the "comments" area on my BBS.
Sorry for the wasted bandwidth everyone...
        John
 {dungeon@dngnbbs.com}

... We're tiny, we're toony, we're all a little loony!
--- GoldED/386 2.50+
 * Origin: The Dungeon BBS 28.8/V.34 24-hours 423/875-4137 (1:362/669)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 156 of 195
 From : Nicolai Shapero                     1:102/524       .pä 06 .àp 96 21:04
 To   : John Giannini
 Subj : FILK MODERATOR
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Mar 04 14:51>, John Giannini (1:119/50) wrote to Kay Shapero:

 JG>only found out now?  Or if not, perhaps moderator wives are
 JG>allowed more leeway in such things than the rest of us? Hmmmm.

Maybe you would recall that being rude or ill mannered towards the moderator of
a conference carries its own reward?  And there is a distinct difference between
a reference to a conference and a posting obviously solely for the purposes of
advertisement.

If you're really interested in getting a permanent "invitation to the world", of
course, by all means continue in this fashion.

-- Nicolai Shapero, Moderator of the SFFAN echo

--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 157 of 195
 From : Nicolai Shapero                     1:102/524       .pä 06 .àp 96 21:06
 To   : John Giannini
 Subj : Cybersex
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Mar 04 14:52>, John Giannini (1:119/50) wrote to Mark Jones:

An interesting note, John.  Please recall that your suspension (I just checked)
extended through 23 March 1996.  Your posting was made on the 4th of March.

Relevant extract from the rules follows:

*************************************************************************
                  Rules for SFFAN (Message 3 of 3)

The following individuals have received an "invitation to the world":
They are banned from this echo until the date listed after their
names.  These are "temporary" suspensions of SFFAN echomail priviledges,
but they are total (no read or write access permitted to SFFAN -- all
sysops carrying this echo are asked to comply)

               Name                   End of Suspension
            =============             =================
         John Giannini (1:119/50)     23 March     1996
         Chris Ogniben (1:2604/568)   15 September 1996
         Chris Thurman (1:141/415)     1 May       1996
          Michael Weir (1:147/61)      5 May       1996

**************************************************************************

Oh well, I guess you just earned yourself an eighteen month "invitation to the
world" for posting WHILE YOUR ACCESS WAS SUSPENDED.

Goodbye, John.

-- Nicolai Shapero, Moderator of the SFFAN echo

--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 158 of 195
 From : Nicolai Shapero                     1:102/524       .pä 06 .àp 96 21:09
 To   : John Arnold
 Subj : Re: Alien threats?
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Feb 27 08:30>, John Arnold (3:632/103) wrote to Mark Jones:

 JA>Or found it by chance.
 JA>I remember a story where the aliens come to Earth to trade a FTL
 JA>drive
 JA>for own TV transmission tech after we send a probe to their
 JA>planet.
 JA>They couldn't transmit the quality pics that we could with our
 JA>probes...

 JA>Can't remember who wrote it but a little voice in the back of my
 JA>head
 JA>says A C Clarke...

I believe the title of the story was "LIKE BANQUO'S GHOST" or somesuch.  The
author was Larry Niven...and the aliens were interested in the remote sensor
capabilities as well as the automation technologies.  They blew up the probe
when it was on the "far side" of their world, at or near point of closest
approach...out of fear.

-- Nicolai Shapero, the Mad Russian Sysop of StormGate Aerie


--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 159 of 195
 From : Nicolai Shapero                     1:102/524       .pä 06 .àp 96 21:13
 To   : All
 Subj : 0 of 3: Rules
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
What follows is an abbreviated version of the rules for SFFAN:

Discussions of SF Fandom, Trek, Media, Who, Anime, and any literary
SF topic are "in bounds".  Related technical discussions are also
allowed, but if they go too far afield, ye moderator reserves the
right to shut down the topic at any time without further warning.
Fantasy, by the by, is on topic.  Keep the comments clean and above
the belt -- personal attacks are unacceptable (remember though, that
to attack an idea is NOT the same as attacking the holder of that
idea).

Commercial messages (anything that solicits money) are OFF TOPIC.

The moderator reserves the right to add new rules as the situation
demands.

Violators of rules may be warned in netmail, will be warned in the
echo, and are subject to suspension of SFFAN echomail priviledges
if they refuse to comply with the echo rules.  Sysops who refuse to
police their users (or themselves) on this echo are subject to
having their feeds cut without warning -- yes, I do hold sysops to
a higher standard.  A list of users and sysops on probation and
suspension is included in the detailed rules, which are posted
at roughly one month intervals.

The word of the moderator is the word of god.  Once the edict is
issued, please take any further comments and/or discussions to netmail.
This is not a democracy.  In the event of my disappearance of early
demise, my wife Kay Shapero will take my place.  If both of us
disappear without having time to appoint an heir to the echo, you
will likely have to fight it out with the FidoNet bureaucracy...

-- Nicolai Shapero, Moderator of SFFAN



--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 160 of 195
 From : Nicolai Shapero                     1:102/524       .pä 06 .àp 96 21:13
 To   : All
 Subj : 1 of 3: Rules
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
                  Rules for SFFAN (Message 1 of 3)

This humble (?) individual, also  known as the moderator of the SFFAN
echo, intends that  this echo be  used for discussions of any subject
related to SF fandom. So: Trek, Who, Anime are all acceptable topics.
Of course, any literary sf topic is  obviously "in bounds".   Related
technical discussions  are also allowable, but try not to go off into
"my computer is better than your computer" arguments.  And, oh yes, I
also allow discussions of role playing games (fantasy and otherwise).
After all, RPGers are frequently sffen too!  (Just try to keep things
VAGUELY in the sf/fantasy area in your discussions, please?)  FANTASY
IS ON  TOPIC.  FANTASY IS ON TOPIC.  FANTASY IS ON TOPIC.  And what I
tell you three times is true...

Once ye olde moderator  declares a thread "off topic" PLEASE DROP THE
SUBJECT.  Take any further comments to NETMAIL.  Repeated infractions
of this rule can result in nastygrams from the Moderator...

Personal attacks are to  be kept off  the echo; but  remember that to
attack the idea is NOT the same thing as attacking the holder of that
idea. Keep things "nice" -- no obscene language, no hitting below the
belt.

I'd like people to be  a bit more careful with  the quoting functions
of their editors.  Please do NOT quote entire messages (including the
origin lines).   Quote only what is necessary.   Show a little bit of
kindness  for the sysops who have to pay to transports these messages
all over the world.

Commercial messages (anything that solicits money) are OFF TOPIC.  If
you're going to  make money on the deal, TAKE IT TO NETMAIL.  This is
not a "for sale" echo, nor is it an "investor's hotline" echo.

                     (Continued in next message)


--- msged 2.06
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Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 161 of 195
 From : Nicolai Shapero                     1:102/524       .pä 06 .àp 96 21:13
 To   : All
 Subj : 2 of 3: Rules
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
                  Rules for SFFAN (Message 2 of 3)

No one  by the  name of  Arthur Werner,  Sal Devita, or  any variants
thereof is permitted  on this echo.  We do NOT need the Werner-beast,
in ANY of his incarnations, on this echo.  In keeping with the spirit
of this rule, Bob Charles  is also banned from this echo -- for life.
It is requested that no sysop  allow access to or  provide a feed for
SFFAN to this individual.

Hanah Deborah is also banned from this echo for an indefinite period,
as is Graeme Smith.

If message traffic is being gated into this conference from any other
network, then each  message must show in the origin line, the FidoNet
address of the system that is doing the gating so that netmail may be
properly directed to users posting from the other network. The gating
station MUST BE LISTED IN THE FIDONET NODELIST AS AN APPROVED GATEWAY
STATION!

The first time that anyone breaks one of these or other FidoNet rules
I will try and notify them via netmail. Depending upon the infraction,
I may also post a  message in the echo. Repeated infractions may result
in the offender being banned from the echo, either for a limited time or
forever.  I do not need variants on the Werner-beast on this echo!

Sysops are held fully accountable for the actions of all users on their
BBSs.  Failure by a sysop to properly discipline a user, or failure of
a sysop to suspend access of a user on request of the Moderator may
result in loss of access to this echo.  Sysops who violate the rules of
this conference, in spirit or letter, are subject to having their feeds
cut without further warning.  I am fully prepared to go "up the line" on
this one, folks, so DO NOT PUSH YOUR LUCK.  Any sysop who starts playing
"rules lawyer" (and I think you all understand what I'm talking about)
is subject to having his feed cut without further warning.  Feed cuts
will be FOR A MINIMUM OF SIX MONTHS, WITH A MANDATORY ONE YEAR
PROBATIONARY PERIOD FOLLOWING RESTORATION OF ACCESS.  Any violation of
the rules in spirit or letter during the probationary period makes the
offending sysop subject to permanent loss of feed.

                     (Continued in next message)



--- msged 2.06
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Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 162 of 195
 From : Nicolai Shapero                     1:102/524       .pä 06 .àp 96 21:14
 To   : All
 Subj : 3 of 3: Rules
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
                  Rules for SFFAN (Message 3 of 3)

In the event that I become unable to continue as moderator for SFFAN,
Kay Shapero will serve in  my stead unless  and until she  decides to
step down.  This is not a democracy.   No one gets to vote on who the
moderator will be.

High order ASCII characters (IBM graphics characters) are not allowed
in messages on this echo. They cause great grief for a lot of systems
and their use is to be avoided.

Special characters or  strings as in those  used for Postscript, TeX,
and similar page description languages are not to be used in SFFAN. I
would much prefer to see standard BBS practices followed (fake under-
score or all caps for emphasis).

These rules are  not to be taken as all inclusive.  The moderator re-
serves the right to add rules any time he deems it necessary to main-
tain the character of the echo.

For those readers  out there who think that SF fandom is just bit too
strange for words, just zip over to one of the OTHER conferences;  it
will only get weirder here.

The following people are on probation for rules violations or other
problems on the echo:

               Name                   End of Probation
            =============             =================

The following individuals have received an "invitation to the world":
They are banned from this echo until the date listed after their
names.  These are "temporary" suspensions of SFFAN echomail priviledges,
but they are total (no read or write access permitted to SFFAN -- all
sysops carrying this echo are asked to comply)

               Name                   End of Suspension
            =============             =================
         John Giannini (1:119/50)     23 September 1997
         Chris Ogniben (1:2604/568)   15 September 1996
         Chris Thurman (1:141/415)     1 May       1996
          Michael Weir (1:147/61)      5 May       1996

The following is a list of STATIONS that for which the feed of SFFAN
has been ordered cut.  Such cuts are for a minimum 6 month period,
and have additional probationary periods following restoration
of service:

               Name                End of Suspension
            =============          =================

-- Nicolai Shapero, the slightly bemused sysop of StormGate Aerie
                    Moderator of the SFFAN echo.


--- msged 2.06
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Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 163 of 195
 From : Nicolai Shapero                     1:102/524       .pä 06 .àp 96 21:15
 To   : All
 Subj : Rules
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Folks may note that there have been minor changes in the rules set:  One person
is no longer on probation, one person has been suspended, and one person has
been given an even LONGER suspension for posting while on suspension.

The mills of the Gods grind slowly, but they grind exceedingly fine...

-- Nicolai Shapero, Moderator of the SFFAN echo

--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 164 of 195
 From : Chris Carter                        1:105/290.23    .òp 05 .àp 96 03:42
 To   : Robert Siemborski
 Subj : B5 -> Voyager Connection?
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On (24 Feb 96) Robert Siemborski wrote to All...

 RS> Is it just me or was the person who played Brother Edward (the
 RS> black rose killer) in Passing Through Gesename (spelling?) on
 RS> babylon 5 the same person who make tuvok go nuts on that recent
 RS> voyager episode? It's a strange coincidence if they are the same
 RS> person...  The parts were very similar.

At the moment, B5 and ST:Any_Iteration share the same casting director.
Hence, you get to see some of the same faces guest starring on both
shows.

Chris - carter@teleport.com


... GUINNESS.PNT not found, operator not loaded.

--- PPoint 2.00
 * Origin: Grid Epsilon Coords. 105x290x23 (1:105/290.23)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 165 of 195
 From : Frank Swarbrick                     1:104/825       .åò 07 .àp 96 21:19
 To   : All
 Subj : scene
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12  92-0022
There's a scene in the main credits that shows Shadow fire hitting a
big round thing that some (I think) have misinterpreted as being part
of the station.  I was just rewatching "The Coming of Shadows" just
now and it is actually part of the Shadow attack on the Narn colony on
sector 14 (or wherever).

Just thought I'd point it out.  (Of course, I could be the only one
who thought it might be part of B5! <g>)

        Frank

... I just want to be left alone.  Is that so wrooooong?
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12
 * Origin: The Bailey Information Exchange BBS, 28.8k v.fc  (1:104/825.0)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 166 of 195
 From : James Walton                        1:129/260       .ÿò 08 .àp 96 20:15
 To   : Todd Sullivan
 Subj : Re: help!
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
RE "The Forever War"

 > As I recall, they used cloning after a certain point.  It
 > made the news in the story because the two "mains" got married
 > and had a kid.  Nice commentary on "O Tempora!  O Mores!",
 > I thought.


Yes, and they settled down on the planet Middle Finger.

--- Opus-CBCS 1.73a
 * Origin: ConFluence '96:  Return to Mars! (1:129/260.0)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 167 of 195
 From : Elizabeth H. Penrose                1:129/26        .ÿò 08 .àp 96 16:58
 To   : The Raven
 Subj : Alien threats?
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
For aliens finding Earth's atmosphere "a poisonous hellhole", read John
Christopher's _The City of Gold & Lead_.  (OK, you can read the other two books
in that trilogy if you want.)

--- Maximus 3.01
 * Origin: SoundingBoard, Pittsburgh PA (1:129/26)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 168 of 195
 From : Barton Paul Levenson                1:129/26        .ÿò 08 .àp 96 17:31
 To   : Frank Glover
 Subj : Re: TERAFORMING
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Well, you're probably right.  (About not terraforming the Moon.)  Another
drawback is that humans may be unable to permanently colonize any planet with
less than 0.28 g, due to osteoporosis and blood electryte effects.  That would
rule out Luna (0.165 g) but would allow Mars (0.38 g).

--- Maximus 3.01
 * Origin: SoundingBoard, Pittsburgh PA (1:129/26)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 169 of 195
 From : Barton Paul Levenson                1:129/26        .ÿò 08 .àp 96 17:33
 To   : Robert Lidgren
 Subj : TERAFORMING
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
I'm afraid I'm not on the 'Net and don't really have access to E-mail.  Can you
think of a way for me to get it to you via a local BBS?

--- Maximus 3.01
 * Origin: SoundingBoard, Pittsburgh PA (1:129/26)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 170 of 195
 From : Barton Paul Levenson                1:129/26        .ÿò 08 .àp 96 17:34
 To   : Nicolai Shapero
 Subj : Alternative energy sources
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
I will certainly drop it if you think I was out of bounds.  But are all energy
sources off-topic because nuclear is?  That rather seems like overkill to me.
Your decision of course, O my moderator and O the delight of my eyes.

--- Maximus 3.01
 * Origin: SoundingBoard, Pittsburgh PA (1:129/26)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 171 of 195
 From : Barton Paul Levenson                1:129/26        .ÿò 08 .àp 96 18:24
 To   : Todd Sullivan
 Subj : TERAFORMING
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
I disagree.  Mars, with its 0.38 g surface gravity, is perfectly capable of
holding a massive atmosphere against Jeans escape for geologically long periods
of time.

--- Maximus 3.01
 * Origin: SoundingBoard, Pittsburgh PA (1:129/26)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 172 of 195
 From : Will Morgan                         1:3819/128.103  .óá 09 .àp 96 03:28
 To   : All
 Subj : QLeap A.E.G. now for Win/Win95 & OS/2 PM!
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
                            The QUANTUM LEAP
                        Automated Episode Guide
                    Version 1.0 for M$/DOS or OS/2!

                    NEW!!! Version 1.0w for Windows!
           NEW!!! Version 1.0 for the OS/2 Presentation Manager!

              What is it?

              The 32 bit Extended DOS/DOS4GW or OS/2 text mode
              versions are menu driven programs that make it easy
              to view info on any of the QUANTUM LEAP episodes!

              The 16 bit Windows & 32 bit OS/2 PM versions will take
              full advantage of their respective operating system's
              easy to use features such as drop down menus and
              dialogue boxes.

              What info does it contain?

              It lists the name of the Quantum Leap episode, the
              airdate, the writer, the director, abbreviated guest
              star list and a brief synopsis of the plot. It also
              lists who Sam "leaps" into for the episode, the date
              he "leaps" to and any "historical" cross-references.

              Why use this program?

              Don't you want to be a slave to technology? And,
              isn't it about time you did something nice for
              yourself for a change? If you're a QUANTUM LEAP fan
              and use MS/DOS, Windows/Win95 or OS/2, this program
              is for you!

              How can I get it?

              You can download the new QUANTUM LEAP A.E.G. from the
              FTP site at ftp.cleaf.com filename QLPDOS10.ZIP (DOS),
              QLPOS210.ZIP (OS/2 Text), QLP_PM10.ZIP (OS/2 PM) or
              QLPWIN10.ZIP (Windows) under the following path
              /pub/mst3k/snake-byte/NON-MST3K

              World Wide Web browsers can be pointed to this URL:
              http://www.cleaf.com/~wmorgan/qleap.html

              Both OS/2 versions can also be found at the OS/2 FTP
              sites ftp.cdrom.com or hobbes.nmsu.edu - paths may vary

              The DOS & Windows versions can also be found at the huge
              SimTel DOS site ftp.coast.net or any of it's mirror sites
              under the paths /SimTel/msdos/entertn/qlpdos12.zip and
              /SimTel/win3/entertn/qlpwin10.zip

              Fidonet folks can FREQ or download this program from one
              of these BBSs:

              Board Name           Fido Address    Phone Number
              ========================================================
              X-Capade BBS          1:3819/190     1-903-793-0166
              ========================================================

              Also available from Snake-Byte Incorporated:

              DOS, Windows, OS/2 Text & OS/2 PM versions of the
              Automated Episode Guides for these shows

                       *  Mystery Science Theater 3000
                       *  The X-Files
                       *  Star Trek: The Next Generation
                       *  Star Trek: The Original Series
                       *  Star Trek: Deep Space Nine
                       *  The Simpsons
                       *  Babylon 5

... Cloverleaf FTP site's new address is: FTP://ftp.cleaf.com!

--- PPoint 2.00
 * Origin: Automated EpGuides by Snake-Byte Inc. (1:3819/128.103)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 173 of 195
 From : Angela Smith                        1:109/611       .óá 09 .àp 96 15:52
 To   : All
 Subj : Octavia Butler
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Does anyone here read Octavia Butler?? What do you think of her Xenogenesis
Series?? And does she have anything new coming out??

.NOTE: IceEdit 1.60 E17688
--- QuickBBS 2.80 GoldBase (Zeta-1)
 * Origin: AD Message BBS/10th Year Online! (703)241-1826 (1:109/611@FIDONET)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 174 of 195
 From : Kay Shapero                         1:102/524       .ÿò 08 .àp 96 09:02
 To   : ROBERT LIDGREN
 Subj : WOMEN AND SF
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Mar 06 18:46>, ROBERT LIDGREN (1:134/10) wrote to ALL:

 RL>When all the discussion about Women and Science Fiction was going
 RL>on were their any replies from women?

Leseee - there were me, Ecarey and probably a number of others as well.  Both
phenomena exist, and many of the former like the latter, preferably when it
doesn't relentlessly present all female characters as twits.  Or all male
characters as twits for that matter.  Come to think of it, I don't like very
many twits in my fiction, regardless of sex or species.  I encounter too many of
'em in the "Real world".

--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 175 of 195
 From : Don Bach                            1:3632/65       .óá 09 .àp 96 16:56
 To   : Chris Ogniben
 Subj : clarification
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Chris, Check your history book for Admiral Grace Hopper.  You would not have a
computer like you do now without her leadership.

Women are just as capable of being strong, being leaders and having great ideas
just like men are, many times they do better!  Their leadership in our future
needs to be encouraged.

Don

P.S. My wife was at one time a bouncer in a country-western bar.  Could you
handle that job?

--- Maximus 3.01
 * Origin: No Regrets, Clinton, MS (601)924-8247 9P-5A (1:3632/65)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 176 of 195
 From : Marco Catalano                      2:2802/152.3    .pä 06 .àp 96 23:12
 To   : mitch obrecht
 Subj : help!
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Hello mitch!


Monday February 26 1996, mitch obrecht writes to all:

 mo> I've heard several people talk about a story that's probably 10 years old
 mo> or more... the basis of this story is that there is someone in the armed
 mo> forces (air force, I think) who is hetero, and somehow gets transported
 mo> to the future (400 years or so, I think).  Everyone (or the majority) in
 mo> this future is gay or lesbian (even bi is considered a no-no) and in one

Erm, just one (probaly stupid) question about this.
How could mankind have survived?

I mean, when _EVERYBODY_ is gay or lesbian how are baby's born?

It does sounds like a rather interesting book however.


Greetings from Marco
BYE!



... Two most common elements found in the universe: Hydrogen & Stupidity.

--- FMail/386 1.02
 * Origin: Zeta Reticuli. There's life, Jim! But not as... (2:2802/152.3)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 177 of 195
 From : Todd Sullivan                       1:202/720.3     .ÿò 08 .àp 96 19:19
 To   : Frank Glover
 Subj : 'bugs' in ST: Generations
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Bryan Malone was kicking back and telling sea stories until Inspector General
Frank Glover walked in and said, "Knock off with that 'bugs' in ST: Generations
and get back to work!"  There was no choice but to shoot Frank.

 FG>    Maybe. The quoting got messed up along the way. I never objected to
 FG> the fact that the Enterprise saucer section, and everyone on it were
 FG> destroyed. The nature of the Nexus let Picard and Kirk come back just
 FG> before that, and prevent it. I have no problem with an acknowledged
 FG> change in the timeline. I think the other guy did, butI was responding
 FG> to another part of his message....

From what Guinan told Picard ("I never left the Nexus", I think), I'd say that
there's still some part of Kirk and Picard remaining there, waiting to return
when needed.

Todd Sullivan

... Your motherboard wears combat boots...

-*- ASTG 1.9

--- Spot 1.3a Unregistered
 * Origin: Todd's Spot in the Continuum (1:202/720.3)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 178 of 195
 From : Silky Rose                          1:271/236       .óá 09 .àp 96 10:58
 To   : All
 Subj : A third one? Details please...
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE 1.11+
Hi, I'm new here, (like duh, as if you couldn't figure that out, right?)
and figured that this might be the right place to ask this question
which popped up last night.  My husband was watching "Movie Magic" on
the Discovery Channel last night and they featured effects from the
movie "The Neverending Story III".  This kinda threw me, because I
didn't even know they were thinking about making a 3rd one much less
have done filming on it.  So the question is:  Is it a future release or
has it already been released?  If already released, is it on video yet?
Just had to find out and figured someone in here might know the answer,
if anyone would.  Thanks for any info you can give me.

Pj Estes
aka Silky Rose

--- GEcho 1.11+
 * Origin: THE TIME MACHINE (804)599-6401 (1:271/236.0)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 179 of 195
 From : Michael Harper                      1:123/10        .óá 09 .àp 96 11:22
 To   : All
 Subj : Starship Troopers
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
This was in the paper this morning, reprinted from _Hollywood Reporter_;

        Ironside may get "Starship Troopers" role

        Michael Ironside is in final negotiations to star in Paul
        Verhoeven's sci-fi action film _Starship Troopers_. Ironside
        last worked with Verhoeven on his hit sci-fi epic _Total
        Recall_.

        Ironside joins a cast headed by Casper Van Dien (_James Dean:
        Race With Destiny_) that includes Jake Busey, Neil Patrick
        Harris, Denise Richards, Dina Meyer and Clancy Brown.

        Ironside's feature credits include Free Willy, Scanners, Father
        Hood, Top Gun and Highlander 2.


Okay. Most of those names are unfamiliar even to me, but Harris starred
in Doogie Howser, Jake Busey is Gary's kid, and Clancy Brown is a known
quantity to anyone who's a Buckaroo Banzai fan, or for that matter a
Highlander fan; he's the original Kurgan. Ironside has a talent for
playing intense, gimlet-eyed types; any guesses who he'll be cast as?


... "Bugs, Mr. Rico! Sagans of 'em..."
--- RA/FD/FMail
 * Origin: The Eclectic Fox -- Memphis TN  (901)327-1008 (1:123/10)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 180 of 195
 From : Channon Lang                        1:130/809       .cê 10 .àp 96 04:35
 To   : Tony Trujillo
 Subj : Re: Sliders is BACK!
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE 1.11+
From a dark bottomless pit,Tony Trujillo screamed up to All about
 Sliders is BACK!..

 TT> ...and so am I! :^)

 TT> I haven't had a chance to watch it but I'm extremely happy
 TT> to hear that SLIDERS (one of the best neatest little SF shows
 TT> since QUANTUM LEAP) is back on the air. Are there any fans (other
 TT> than Kay Shapero) of the show who'd like to discuss it? I was very
 TT> pleased to hear that they were able to get all of the cast back for
 TT> the new shows...especially JRD.

 Hi Tony! Long time no see! You know, I'm glad Sliders is back. I really
 enjoyed the show previously, but I'm disappointed that Strange Luck is gone.
 I really liked it too. And I'm gonna have to watch Sliders to see if the
 sacrifice was worth it. From what I remember about it from the last time I
 watched it, it was a show with great potiental, but not well utilized. I
 guess we'll see, eh?

 Channon



... Computer Malfunction . . . Nut Loose In Operator's Chair!
--- MachoEcho 0.5ñ
 * Origin: The State of Confusion * Arlington Tx * 817-274-1920 * (1:130/809)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 181 of 195
 From : Lawrence E Dunlap                   1:106/2927      .cê 03 .àp 96 21:08
 To   : Henry Triplett
 Subj : weird tv
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

HT>.ED> Gerry Anderson's best hope for mixing miniature model animation and
HT>.ED> live action was *Space: 1999* but it died a premature syndication
HT>.ED> ratings death because of continunity flaws.

HT>Yeah.  Though some episodes were quite decent in what they tried to
HT>portray.

HT>*Astroboy*!  I haven't heard that name since...well, anyway, it's been
HT>awhile.  While weak on science, they were both more entertaining than some
HT>of the drivel I've seen put forth lately as children's TV.

HT>I even had a pair of sneakers that made the same sound as Astroboy did
HT>when he walked.  (Not by design, just sheer luck.)  I think he's out on
HT>tape somewhere for a phenominal sum of money.  Didn't he grow up to
HT>become Speed Racer? :)

   Astroboy's driving Speed Racer's car during confrontations with
baddies possibly would have assisted Speed in doing bad guys in much
less violently!  :D

   Your comment re *Rocky Jones*:

HT>I must say, I don't remember him at all.  And, I missed the reruns, too. :(

   Rocky reran the first three months of KHTV's operational life. After
the station got sufficient quantities of recent syndicated programs,
Rocky was quietly moved off the scene.

HT>.ED>Is *Rocky Jones* availabl .  .  ? I understand that *Tom
HT>.EDCorbett* was assisted by Robert Heinlein and even based on *Space
HT>.ED>Cadet* the second Heinlein juvenile SF novel and I'd be intersted
HT>.ED>in it too.

HT>I don't know.  I wouldn't mind seeing those shows again.  While the F/X
HT>such as they were, are crude by today's standards, the stories certainly
HT>kept you on the edge of your seat.

   Wonderous were the infrequent gems of science fiction dramas and
kidvid dramas in the early years of American SF on TV due to the space
program. *Supercar* was fairly realistic as a Gerry Anderson adaption of
an Robert A. Heinlein Tricar of his juvenile & adult novels and novellas
of the 1950's and 1960's.

   *Fireball XL-5* presaged the winged/manned atmospheric reentry
spacecraft of the 1990's and presaged interstellar flight in a kidvid
way.

   While *Astroboy* proved to be science fantasy, the level of thought
required of a 10 year old about choices and values by Astroboy in his
flights of mercy were and are rare in kidvid SF even today

HT>..."There he goes, ASTROBOY...."

I wonder how much of Astroboy might be recycliable TV Science Fantasy
now? Probably not because *Astroboy* and all such shows mentioned in our
thread were very violent according to 1996 US and Candaian children's TV
standards.
Lawrence E Dunlap
(1:106/2927)
Internet E-mail "PostOakLED@AOL.COM"
___
* UniQWK #5136*  'What does intelligence have to do with politics?'

--- Alexi/Mail 2.02b (#10000)
 * Origin: Computer Living F'n BBS-Houston, TX 713-444-2927 (1:106/2927)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 182 of 195
 From : David Johnston                      1:342/14        .óá 09 .àp 96 01:19
 To   : John Giannini
 Subj : Cybersex
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
-> On 21 Feb 96, Mark Jones wrote to Jon Helis:
->
-> MJ> Steve Austin's bionic limbs and Commander Data's android body can
-> MJ> *either* be quite obviously artificial--including the easy-open
-> MJ> ports--or they can be realistic enough for close contact without
-> being MJ> detectable.  But not both.
-> Did you see the 2nd episode of the first season of Showtime's new
-> Outer Limits show, where a female robot who was programmed to be just
-> a companion to the mai character of the story ended up developing
-> emotions, even emotions like jealousy?  It showed that not only can a
-> cybernetic being blur the line - be both robotic enough for robotic
-> repairs, *and* human enough to have sex with -

That depends.  Where were her seams?

--- PCBoard (R) v15.21/100
 * Origin: Freddy's Place - Edm. AB - 28.8K (403) 456-4241 (1:342/14)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 183 of 195
 From : David Johnston                      1:342/14        .óá 09 .àp 96 01:23
 To   : Todd Sullivan
 Subj : Teraforming
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
-> The main problems with Mars and the Moon are size; nowhere near
-> enough mass to hold air at all (moon) or at SAP (Mars).  It'll be
-> domes/underground until the gravitational constant changes in our
-> favor. :^)

Mars would lose air, true, but at a rate that would require no
corrective measures for thousands of years, if we could get it's
atmospheric pressure up to an acceptable level in the first place.

--- PCBoard (R) v15.21/100
 * Origin: Freddy's Place - Edm. AB - 28.8K (403) 456-4241 (1:342/14)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 184 of 195
 From : Kevin Ahearn                        1:109/104       .cê 10 .àp 96 19:38
 To   : Kay Shapero
 Subj : How does Catherine survive into new B&B miniseries??
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 KS> On <Mar 07 19:19>, Gary Warren (1:382/92.7) wrote to All:

 GW>Fine and dandy.  But will the writers come up with a dodge of how
 GW>she survived her autopsy performed just after the aforementioned
 GW>two-hour 1989 season debut?

 KS> Probably just say it didn't happen.  Alternately, of
 KS> course, they may have decided to cash in on a certain
 KS> popular trend and we'll find that she did die.. but
 KS> got better and now grows fangs on dark nights and never
 KS> comes out in the daytime and...

 KS> No, No!  Put that down!  AAAAARrrrrrrgggggghhhhhh!!!!!!!

Or, perhaps, we'll find that after she died, she mysteriously returned to life
and is now going about with a sword decapitating anyone who's had the same
experience...

That should draw their fire, Kay...RUN FOR IT! :)

--Kevin

--- Maximus/2 3.01
 * Origin: ShanErin (1:109/104)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 185 of 195
 From : Jean.Paul Wissink                   2:281/703.3     .cê 10 .àp 96 16:56
 To   : All
 Subj : B5 episode list
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Hello All,

Here in Holland we are currently in season 2 of Bab5. Is there an episode list
available which covers *all* seasons from Bab5 up until the latest episode in
the States ? Could someone mail me this list (netmail would be fine: don't
attach it :-) ?

It would be nice if it was something like the reviews that Tim Lynch did of
ST:TNG and DS9.

(Bab5-ing)Grtngs,
Jean.Paul Wissink

... "Darnit Jim, I'm a doctor, not a barber." - Duck Trek
--- Locutus BorgToss/2
 * Origin: Computers don't make mistakes, but foolish people do. (2:281/703.3)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 186 of 195
 From : Nicolai Shapero                     1:102/524       .óá 09 .àp 96 07:52
 To   : Timothy H. Willis
 Subj : Re: Star Trek Generations
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Mar 05 11:36>, Timothy H. Willis (1:306/32) wrote to Nicolai Shapero:

 TH>  So, are your works still in print?  I'm going to have to go get
 TH>copies and read 'em.
 TH>  Well, see you around...
 TH>  Timothy H. Willis

FGU went belly up a few years ago, so OTHER SUNS and THE ALDERSON YARDS SHIPBOOK
are out of print.  You can still find copies floating around, though, if you
look hard enough.

-- Nicolai Shapero, the Mad Russian Sysop of StormGate Aerie

--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 187 of 195
 From : Nicolai Shapero                     1:102/524       .óá 09 .àp 96 07:54
 To   : Gary Warren
 Subj : How does Catherine survive into new B&B miniseries??
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Mar 07 19:19>, Gary Warren (1:382/92.7) wrote to All:

 GW>Fine and dandy.  But will the writers come up with a dodge of how
 GW>she
 GW>survived her autopsy performed just after the aforementioned
 GW>two-hour
 GW>1989 season debut?  I'll be bumfuzzled if we're not subjected to
 GW>another
 GW>"Pam Ewing" dream (DALLAS) or another clone story (the projected
 GW>ALIEN 4
 GW>movie).

Frankly, I'd just say "the whole last season didn't exist, it wasn't a
dream...even a bad one...it just DIDN'T HAPPEN".  Make for a lot more pleasant
story, frankly...

-- Nicolai Shapero, the Mad Russian Sysop of StormGate Aerie

--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 188 of 195
 From : Kay Shapero                         1:102/524       .óá 09 .àp 96 12:39
 To   : Tony Trujillo
 Subj : Sliders is BACK!
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Mar 07 14:38>, Tony Trujillo (1:280/341) wrote to All:

 TT>I haven't had a chance to watch it but I'm extremely happy
 TT>to hear that SLIDERS (one of the best neatest little SF shows
 TT>since QUANTUM LEAP) is back on the air. Are there any fans (other
 TT>than Kay Shapero) of the show who'd like to discuss it?

Gee thanks - don't want to talk to me do you?  :->

I agree btw - this is FUN.  And like you I'm glad to see they're all back.  The
show just wouldn't be the same without any of them (especially JRD).

Get a vcr and set it to tape the thing if you're that busy - the first episode
was a sort of Wizard of Oz thingie done rather better than they usually are, and
I've not watched the second yet myself, but I've got it on tape.

--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 189 of 195
 From : Kay Shapero                         1:102/524       .óá 09 .àp 96 12:41
 To   : Gary Warren
 Subj : How does Catherine survive into new B&B miniseries??
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Mar 07 19:19>, Gary Warren (1:382/92.7) wrote to All:

 GW>Fine and dandy.  But will the writers come up with a dodge of how
 GW>she survived her autopsy performed just after the aforementioned
 GW>two-hour 1989 season debut?

Probably just say it didn't happen.  Alternately, of course, they may have
decided to cash in on a certain popular trend and we'll find that she did die..
but got better and now grows fangs on dark nights and never comes out in the
daytime and...

No, No!  Put that down!  AAAAARrrrrrrgggggghhhhhh!!!!!!!

--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 190 of 195
 From : Kay Shapero                         1:102/524       .óá 09 .àp 96 12:53
 To   : Timothy H. Willis
 Subj : Writers
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Mar 05 11:52>, Timothy H. Willis (1:306/32) wrote to Kay Shapero:


 TH>  Well, I *did* sell an essay on "Podcayne of Mars" when Baen
 TH>Books ran their "vote" to determine which of the two endings should be
TH>*the* ending of the book.  Got $50 for it, and it's printed in the
 TH>current publication pb on the shelves right now.

There ya go - you published and you got paid for it - you're officially a dirty
pro.  No excuses, and death will not release you.  :->  (What did you conclude?
Frankly I think RAH's "real" ending as published in _Grumblings from the Grave_
fits the story better, even if it's far less pleasant.)  [you might like the SF
echo btw - there are a lot of writers who frequent that echo, professional or
otherwise.]

 TH>But, I do see your point.  Maybe I should just add the word
 TH>"professional" to "writer" to differentiate between those who have
 TH>sold and those who
 TH>are trying to (or just like to put words on paper for their own
 TH>enjoyment).

Even at that, there are those who write for a living, and those who write as
amateurs, but do sell stuff on occasion.

 TH>  Well, see you around... want to talk about the works of H. Beam
 TH>Piper some day?  Or David Weber's Honor Harrington books?

I like H. Beam Piper; particularly Space Viking, the Paratime Police series and
the Lord Kalvan books.  I also think that the pair who have tried to continue
the story started in the latter missed the point violently, given Piper's stated
opnion of "historical inevitability".  What I'd like to have seen if he'd lived
long enough to write it would have been what was going to come next in the
Paratime saga, given some of the parallels between the Paratime society and
events in Kalvan timeline.

Never have been all that fond of David Weber's writing, so haven't read the
Honor Harrington books.

--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 191 of 195
 From : Kay Shapero                         1:102/524       .óá 09 .àp 96 12:51
 To   : JOHN ROSS
 Subj : Re: Help
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Feb 27 21:14>, JOHN ROSS (1:116/1977@fidonet) wrote to KAY SHAPERO:

 JR>Thanks Kay,Actually I did see it ,but not until I had sent my
 JR>second letter to you .Thanks alot.

You're welcome!  Hope you liked it.  (Wanna see some of *my* songs?)

--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 192 of 195
 From : Tam Phan                            1:143/362       .òp 05 .àp 96 17:27
 To   : Marco Catalano
 Subj : Sliders!
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 On 03-01-96 Marco Catalano wrote to Tam Phan...

 MC> Hello Tam!
 MC> Monday February 26 1996, Tam Phan writes to All:
 MC>  TP> Sliders is back on FOX! This Friday, before X-Files.
 MC> Can you tell me if I can receive FOX with a dish, Tam?
 MC> I live in the Netherlands so if Fox is transmitting on the ASTRA
 MC> satellite it
 MC> must be possible to get it.
 MC> Greetings from Marco
 MC> BYE!

     I'm really sorry for responding so late.. I don't know if
     you can or not.. perhaps someone else can answer that..
---
 * OFFLINE 1.58 * Take my advice, I don't use it anyway.
 * Origin:  (1:143/362)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 193 of 195
 From : Charles Daniels                     1:203/42        .cê 10 .àp 96 13:27
 To   : Rod Mammitzsch
 Subj : Sci fi
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 > Hey there?  What is the club?  And I too am a member of an SF
 > group..but we deal mainly with British Sci-Fi...interested?

I dunno if he was but I am.  I am interested in Doctor Who,
Hitchhiker's Guide, Red Dwarf, and most other British SF!

--- FMail 0.98
 * Origin: Deep Thought: RedDwarf,ST,SF, FREE MEAT!  916-452-9501 (1:203/42)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 194 of 195
 From : Sarah Hargreaves                    3:620/247       .pä 06 .àp 96 09:10
 To   : All
 Subj : QUARK!
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Does anyone out there remember this classic?  (Someone might of discussed
it in this net at an earlier stage (or recently for that matter), but I
couldnt be bothered looking) :).

I was having a discussion about it the other day with some workmates, and
we couldn't remember all the character names.. Quark (of course), Gene and
Gene.. but thats all we could come up with (slack huh?).. can someone out
there come to my rescue of sleepness nights of trying to remember the
character names?

Thanks!

Sarah

--- FMail/386 1.0g
 * Origin: Listen! Can you smell something?? Sonic BBS (61 6 2533704)
(3:620/247)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 195 of 195
 From : Wes Yahola                          1:123/569       .cê 10 .àp 96 17:29
 To   : Tony Trujillo
 Subj : Sliders is BACK!
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE 1.11+

 -=> Tony Trujillo had this to say to All <=-

 TT> ...and so am I! :^)

 TT> I haven't had a chance to watch it but I'm extremely happy
 TT> to hear that SLIDERS (one of the best neatest little SF shows

         Yeh! I rejoiced when I heard the news. The two episodes have been just
as good as the early run. I'm a sucker for alt. universe stories anyway (Like
Harry Turtledove's stuff) so this fits me great! :>

... Discoveries are made by not following instructions.
--- Blue Wave/RA v2.12 [NR]
 * Origin: 9 out of 5 Schizos prefer Lunatic Fringe! 382-LUST (1:123/569)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 191 of 284
 From : Anders Danebo                       2:201/190       .óá 17 .åâ 96 20:54
 To   : Jeroen Jacobs
 Subj : Hello !
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

-=> Quoting Jeroen Jacobs to All <=-

 JJ> And these are my favorite SF-series:

 JJ> - the X files.
 JJ> - Star Trek : Deep Space 9
 JJ> - Star Trek : The Next Generation
 JJ> - Star Trek : Voyager
 JJ> - The Outer Limits

You must be my twin or my twin soul...Exactly my faves..


... DATA COMPRESSION: What You Get When You Squish An Android
--- GEcho 1.00
 * Origin: =:Detroit Rock City:= Stockholm, Sweden  +46-8-870055 (2:201/190)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 192 of 284
 From : Kevin Ahearn                        1:109/104       .cê 18 .åâ 96 21:01
 To   : Kim Wheat
 Subj : Star Trek
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 KW>  Even I might watch this episode on Monday. I've never liked Q, myself.
 KW>  Think the writers made a big mistake with this character. Never, ever
 KW>  have a 'Superman' type character on the show!!! The only way to have
 KW>  interesting plots that don't repeat themselves endlessly is to remove
 KW>  his powers..and then he's no longer Q! And if he keeps his powers,
 KW>  then it's just a rehashed story! Stupid move to have come up with this
 KW>  guy!

Your comments remind me of an old saying about fantasy stories:  "If anything is
possible, nothing is interesting.

 KW>  If Q appears on V'ger...then why isn't the show finished then?? He
 KW>  simply pops them back to Fed space and everyone goes home. This won't
 KW>  happen, of course....but I bet you the reasons this doesn't take place
 KW>  won't be satisfactory. Therefore, once again, it'll prove that this
 KW>  character just doesn't work as a viable plot device.

Actually, there is a real good reason for this.  The scent which would explain
it would proceed something like this:

Janeway:  "Q, will you send us back to Federation space?"

Q:  "No."

Janeway:  "Why not?"

Q:  "I don't feel like it.  See ya."

--Kevin

--- Maximus/2 3.01
 * Origin: ShanErin (1:109/104)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 193 of 284
 From : Oai Luong                           1:109/611       .cê 18 .åâ 96 21:24
 To   : Barton Paul Levenson
 Subj : Re: Star Trek
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 BP>> "Please talk to me about Star Trek!"

       Well I think the expisodes of TNG are the best.  Not because of the
technology that they have but the captain and the crew members.  Well the
TNG movie was a blast watching at my friends house on his 47 in. tv.  Well I
think the whole think that makes us interested in ST is the imagination that
it provides us to have a source to use when it comes to imagination.  See we
my friends and I be built our ouwn ship it was call the explorer ( and please
don't take our ideas ) and we use couple technology such a the warp engines,
but with a little changes we made the engines up to 15 warp.  we try to make
it not so sarcastic and we also put in the cloaking device and not worry
about the plasma thing.  So basically it is the crew and the captain who make
it interesting.

Oai Luong

.NOTE: IceEdit 1.60 E17688
--- QuickBBS 2.80 GoldBase (Zeta-1)
 * Origin: AD Message BBS/10th Year Online! (703)241-1826 (1:109/611@FIDONET)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 194 of 284
 From : Kim Wheat                           1:271/285       .cê 18 .åâ 96 09:02
 To   : Chris Carter
 Subj : Star Trek
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
---<<*<<< Chris dazzled Buc Wheat with these words of wisdom!! >>>**>>----

 KW> (I refuse...simply refuse, to give creedence to "It's was the
 KW> 60's, Kim") <g>

 CC> It was probably the '70s. ;~)

 Naw, Chris, can't be...I *REMEMBER* the 70's! ;)

 Kim :)


... Certe, Toto, sentio nos in Kansate non iam adesse.
--- GEcho 1.00
 * Origin: From Trekkies & from B5ers who hate Trek save us! (1:271/285.0)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 195 of 284
 From : Bianca Wesslak                      1:132/152       .cê 18 .åâ 96 18:51
 To   : Anders Danebo
 Subj : Cybersex
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
From a woman with an overactive imagination.

 AD> I belive the SciFi conference is ment to be used for serious Science
 AD> Fiction discussions and one can not get serious when sex is
 AD> involved..If one wants sex (cyber or not) then why not just get
 AD> some..To talk about it is only boring and non interesting...THink about
 AD> it and you will know what i mean..

And pray tell me just what is serious Science Fiction????????..............
To you what may be serious Sci-Fi, may very well to others be fun and games.
Also to you talking about sex may be boring and uninteresting, that's your
perogative, but to others it may very well be something completely different.
ANd as to your comment no one can get serious when sex is involved, WHy???]



... A female Klingon with PMS? Run for your lives!!!
--- Blue Wave v2.12 [NR]
 * Origin: The Cereal Port BBS (OS/2) Rindge,NH 603-899-3335 (1:132/152)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 196 of 284
 From : John Crawford                       1:221/1050      .åò 15 .åâ 96 17:48
 To   : Hanke Penning
 Subj : New here!
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
        Hey Hanke.  John here.  I LOVE the X-Files, you should watch them.
They're on Friday's at 9:00.  Sorry, I'm not one for Star Trek *or* Babylon 5.
Bye.
                                                                John.


--- Maximus/2 2.02
 * Origin: Five Guys BBS (1:221/1050)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 197 of 284
 From : Nicolai Shapero                     1:102/524       .cê 18 .åâ 96 20:15
 To   : Bill Clements
 Subj : EDUCATION
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Feb 13 22:21>, Bill Clements (1:18/230) wrote to Barton Paul Levenson:

 BC>READ the _SUBJECT_ line of the message header.  The subject is
 BC>_EDUCATION_ which has not been declared off-topic.

This is called "rules lawyering".  The actual subject of the discussion
continued on an "off topic" thread.  Regardless of what someone changed the
subject line to, the CONTENT of the message remained off topic (as was the body
of your message.

If I see anything more from you on this subject (subject line OR content) I am
going to become very annoyed.

-- Nicolai Shapero, Moderator of the SFFAN echo

--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 198 of 284
 From : Nicolai Shapero                     1:102/524       .cê 18 .åâ 96 20:20
 To   : Frank Glover
 Subj : Re: SLIDERS/ANY NEWS?
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
SLIDERS returns on Friday, March 1, 1996.  All new episodes.

It should be interesting.

-- Nicolai Shapero, the Mad Russian Sysop of StormGate Aerie

--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 199 of 284
 From : Nicolai Shapero                     1:102/524       .cê 18 .åâ 96 20:22
 To   : Edward Spindle
 Subj : Legacy of the Ancients- by Electronic Arts
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
This is not the FOR SALE conference, nor is it the COMPUTER GAMING conference.

This is the SFFAN conference, for discussion of science fiction and fandom.

Please stay on topic, or stay off the conference.

Thank you for your cooperation,

-- Nicolai Shapero, Moderator of the SFFAN echo

--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 200 of 284
 From : Nicolai Shapero                     1:102/524       .cê 18 .åâ 96 20:23
 To   : Christian Raven
 Subj : Re: Star Trek
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Feb 13 17:41>, Christian Raven (1:393/7@fido) wrote to Anne Swasey:

 CR>i was saying was, to put it simply, women are PHYSICALLY WEAKER
 CR>than men, women are PSYCHOLOGICALLY less agressive and capable,
 CR>and women are EMOTIONALLY far less stable.  whether or not this
 CR>was due to their past, as you have said, really is not relevant.

Just because you have said it does not make it true, however.

This subject is also wildly off topic at this point, so please do not post
further messages to this thread.

Thank you for your cooperation.

-- Nicolai Shapero, Moderator of the SFFAN echo

--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 201 of 284
 From : Star Hawk                           1:362/708.6     .óá 17 .åâ 96 18:49
 To   : Jeff Hancock
 Subj : B5 -- Coincidence?
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
From my perch I saw this come out of the gravity well from Jeff Hancock: [answer
waay late due to situations out of my control <sigh>]

  [> Star Hawk [> I don't know about story element, but it's not
  [> unlikely.  Roses have been a romantic symbol, the color black a
  [> symbol of dark and/or evil intent; so naturally when the two are
  [> put together you have a ready made of dark/evil romance.

  [> Jeff Hancock [> But are there really black roses, short of
  [> painting or wilting? ;-)

     I believe so, although i'm not sure; man-made, of course.

  [> Star Hawk [> Both B5 and Ranma 1/2 tapped into that background
  [> for different reasons.

  [> Jeff Hancock [> Now I don't remember any good reason for B5 to
  [> have used that particular element for the murderer, but since
  [> it's back on here in a few days, maybe I'll see it this time.
  [>
  [> And the Black Rose killer wasn't anything like Kodachi. ;)

     True, but each was using different elements of the mythos.

  [> Jeff Hancock [> Another anime I ran into had living starships...
  [> but again, not even similiar in detail.

  [> Star Hawk [> Living ships have been part of SF/Fantasy for a long
  [> time, although not common.

  [> Jeff Hancock [> Y'know, I don't think I've run into them very
  [> often either.

  [> Star Hawk [> Again, no surprise...  [The anime wouldn't have been
  [> Tenchi Muyo, would it? <g>]

  [> Jeff Hancock [> No, it was a four-part SF story called MAPS that
  [> I've only seen the first two of so far. The ship seemed metallic,
  [> was umpteen-stories high, and the "brain" was an android in the
  [> form of (of course) an attractive female. When the ship took
  [> damage, so did she with wounds erupting "blood", then healing
  [> within a few minutes or so; although they didn't show the ship
  [> self-repairing in a similiar fashion. The ship also appeared to
  [> get blown in half (or at least two pieces) during the second
  [> episode, but they never showed what happened to the android.

     I've seen it.  The ending of the fourth part sort of leaves one hanging; it
seems that the creator's intention was for a possible continuation of the story.

  [> Jeff Hancock [> The people on the Anime echo seem to enjoy using
  [> the characters from Tenchi Muyo in their messages, but I've yet to
  [> see it since it's not available for rent and the videos were
  [> something like $25 or $30 for a half hour of video. I don't really
  [> know much about it - your mention of living ships in that is the
  [> first I've heard of such - so feel free to describe it and let me
  [> know if it's worth the cost. ;)

     I think so, although it becomes a better value when they started putting
two episodes on a tape/disc [#8-13].  If you like URUSEI YATSURA, RANMA 1/2, and
the like, you'll probably like TENCHI MUYO.  It is one of the most popular
titles in the country.

                                        Star Hawk, the EchoTrickster

--- MacWoof Eval:23Dec93
 * Origin: William Bull Hedrick @ Hawk Haven's Orbital Point (1:362/708.6)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 202 of 284
 From : ROBERT LIDGREN                      1:134/10        .cê 18 .åâ 96 00:41
 To   : NICOLAI SHAPERO
 Subj : CLARIFICATION
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
-> Excuse me please, but Kay is not the moderator, I am.  And what made me
-> decide about it being off topic?  Well, it was off topic to begin with, but
-> I made a comment on it so I thought that other people should have their say
-> also.  That was done.  People had their say, and were beginning to repeat
-> themselves.

Thanks Nicolai!  I really DID get my wires crossed!  Sorry - no offense was
intended.  I had a hunch something of the sort might have been at the root of
the decision.  I would assume that science topics are not necessarily off-topic
providing that one is discussing them in the context of science fiction and the
stories/TV series/movies/books of which science remains the "seed" or catalyst
for the writer's imagination.

Have you been following X-Files at all lately?  What do you think of the
changes in the relationship beyween Scully and Mulder?

I heard a rumour SOMEWHERE that "Sliders" was returning March 1st.  Is there
any truth to this?

Cheers and please extend my apologies to Kay Shapiro as well.

-Rob
--- PCBoard 15.2
 * Origin: 32 lines 40 Gig BBS, Realtime InterNet SLIP (403)299-9900 (1:134/10)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 203 of 284
 From : Jeroen Jacobs                       2:292/506.26    .pä 14 .åâ 96 17:07
 To   : James Walton
 Subj : Star Trek
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: FastEcho 1.45a UNREG
Yow James !! Where the hell are you ??

Vrijdag Februari 09 1996 23:51, James Walton schreef naar Chris Ogniben:

 >> Are you stupid or something?  It's pretty obvious that


 JW> Hey dude, CHILL OUT!


Please...don't begin a fight here. Let's begin with Star Trek's dream about a
peaceful planet first.


Greetings from The Prince of Darkness,

                                        Jeroen

                                   -[PGP_ID=1F7602ED]-


...Political correctness is a Borg plot.

--- GoldED 2.50+ / PGP 2.6.1
 * Origin: co-sysop 80x86 BBS -= 015 24 48 57 =- (2:292/506.26)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 204 of 284
 From : Shawn Snyder                        1:2601/507      .îí 19 .åâ 96 12:50
 To   : Robert Lidgren
 Subj : "Q" on VOYAGER
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
        Rob, I heard that there is a "Q" planning to attempt suicide or
something like that.  Jonothan Frakes is suposed to be in it, also.


--- Maximus 2.02
 * Origin: Radio Sharon  Sharon, PA  (412) 981-3151 (1:2601/507)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 205 of 284
 From : JOHN ROSS                           1:116/1977      .îí 19 .åâ 96 08:20
 To   : Judy Hayes
 Subj : Re: Help
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.SPTH: FidoNet#1:116/1977 :369/110
THATS THE ONE!!!! Love it and all ? of it's rather randy verses.
Are you a local Judy ,or one of our FIDO_NET friends.Let me know.
TTYL

--- AdeptXBBS v1.06(Registered)
 * Origin: The Great Escape! (1-406-254-1977) (1:116/1977)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 206 of 284
 From : Jackson Raster                      1:3637/77       .cê 18 .åâ 96 12:36
 To   : Christian Raven
 Subj : Re: Star Trek
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Psychologically, women are no less capable, thought they may be
incomprehensible to men at times. HoweverPb
, the reverse is also true- they can't understand our motives at times,
either.
-JTR
---
--- WcToss for WildCat!  V1.8 [UnReg]
 * Origin: Coles Kingdom BBS 615-657-5708 14.4KBPS! (1:3637/77)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 207 of 284
 From : Tim Stackpool                       3:712/505       .cê 18 .åâ 96 13:25
 To   : Tommy Kellerman
 Subj : Dalarna Horse
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Tommy,
Yeah, I seem to remember that Cafe Opera was expensive.
Um...you mention that the NTSC format won't look real good to you in
Sweden. That is true since Sweden uses PAL colour encoding. But here in
Australia we also use PAL.
If I come across any later series episodes of V on VHS, I'll be in touch.
Keep warm.
Regards....Tim

--- Maximus/2 2.02
 * Origin: Sydney PC Users Group Mail Exchange (3:712/505)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 208 of 284
 From : Kim Wheat                           1:271/285       .îí 19 .åâ 96 10:33
 To   : Anders Danebo
 Subj : Cybersex
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
---<<*<<< Barton dazzled Buc Wheat with these words of wisdom!! >>>**>>----

 BPL> I think I know what you're trying to say, but I think you're mistaken
 BPL> if you say sex can't be discussed seriously, under SF or otherwise.
 BPL> Some interesting comments on sex and human sexuality have come out of
 BPL> science fiction -- though usually books and not TV/movies.  Cf
 BPL> LeGuin's "The Left Hand of Darkness" or Philip Jose Farmer's "The
 BPL> Loverbirds" (very daring when it first came out).  Or anything by
 BPL> Heinlein after he became obsessed with sex.

 To which you can add:
      Griffith's AMMONITE
      PJF's FLESH
      Varley's STEEL BEACH

 Kim :)


--- GEcho 1.00
 * Origin: From Trekkies & from B5ers who hate Trek save us! (1:271/285.0)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 209 of 284
 From : Chris Baugh                         1:105/290.5     .cê 18 .åâ 96 23:54
 To   : ROBERT LIDGREN
 Subj : X-FILES
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 RL> What a huge change from the season opener when they couldn't
 RL> have been a "tighter" pair unless romance was a result! Now
 RL> the sin wav is certainly at a low ebb.

The sin wav can't ebb to low, or it wouldn't be a family program any
more.

--- PPoint 1.98
 * Origin: - (1:105/290.5)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 210 of 284
 From : Todd Sullivan                       1:202/720.3     .ÿò 16 .åâ 96 22:09
 To   : The Raven
 Subj : Bs!!
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
I was kicking back and telling sea stories until Inspector General The Raven
walked in and said, "Knock off with that Bs!! and get back to work!"  There was
no choice but to shoot The.

 DL>>  Depends upon the Marine.  Most would just snipe him at 500 yds and
 DL>>  be done with it.  I must commend you on your patience.  Personally,
 DL>>  I would be all over him for such comments (although logically, I know
 DL>>  that it would accomplish nothing).

 TR>      Who was it who said "A fair fight is a fight I win"?

Sounds like any of the Heinlein books where Lazarus is featured. :^)

Todd Sullivan

... "Wealth is the parent of luxury and indolence, and poverty of
     meanness and viciousness, and both of discontent." --Plato

-*- ASTG 1.9

--- Spot 1.3a Unregistered
 * Origin: Todd's Spot in the Continuum (1:202/720.3)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 211 of 284
 From : Aaron Turon                         1:137/2         .îí 19 .åâ 96 11:00
 To   : Ecarey
 Subj : Thanx!
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Thanx for the advice ;)


--- Opus-CBCS 1.73a
 * Origin: Chipper Clipper * Scott me up beamy! * 941-745-56 (1:137/2.0)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 212 of 284
 From : Mark Jones                          1:105/302.47    .cê 18 .åâ 96 02:46
 To   : Christian Raven
 Subj : Star Trek
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On (13 Feb 96) Christian Raven wrote to Anne Swasey...

 CR>   what bothers me about the messages i have recieved is that most of
 CR> you are tending to go on and on about subjects which simply do not
 CR> pertain in a signifigant way to the brunt of my message, which, for
 CR> the fifth or sixth time is this: whether or not women have been
 CR> slandered, treated like dogs, not allowed to hunt, raped, pillaged, or
 CR> sacrificed to a higher deity makes no difference when cross-referenced
 CR> with my original thought.  what i was saying was, to put it simply,
 CR> women are PHYSICALLY WEAKER than men, women are PSYCHOLOGICALLY less
 CR> agressive and capable, and women are EMOTIONALLY far less stable.
 CR> whether or not this was due to their past, as you have said, really is
 CR> not relevant.

   No, people have been addressing your point.  They've been providing
evidence that your "thought" (to use the term very loosely) is
completely and utterly and every other way totally preposterous.

   Women are, on average, slightly weaker than men--true.  However, a
physically fit woman is generally stronger than a male couch potato.
   The difference between a 98-lb. weakling and a 250-lb. bodybuilder
(both male) is vastly greater than the difference between a man and
woman of the same weight and level of exercise.

   As for women being less aggressive and capable--are you a brain
surgeon?  How about a professional soldier?  CEO of a major
corporation?  Lots of women are.
   Are you a high-powered attorney-at-law?  Marcia Clark is.
   Are you worth tens or hundreds of millions of dollars, dollars you
earned by your own effort?  Oprah Winfrey is.  So is Madonna.
   When every single man on the planet has exceeded their performance,
your theory might have some validity.  Not until then.

   As for women being less emotionally stable than men...
   How many FEMALE serial killers can you name?  How many times has a
WOMAN climbed into a bell tower and started shooting passers-by?

   I have to wonder about *your* emotional stability and capability,
if you have to console yourself with the thought that no matter how
unstable and inadequate you feel, at least women are even more so.

--- PPoint 1.78
 * Origin: Folcroft Sanitarium (hsmith@cure.com) (1:105/302.47)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 213 of 284
 From : Channon Lang                        1:130/809       .òp 20 .åâ 96 02:50
 To   : Bill Clements
 Subj : Re: THE GUIDE AND IT'S IN
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE 1.11+
From a dark bottomless pit,Bill Clements screamed up to Channon Lang about
 THE GUIDE AND IT'S IN..

 CL> ... Send Monopoly Money to your Favorite TV Evangelist
 BC>
 BC> Such a terrible _WASTE_, you must think Monopoly Money grows on
 BC> trees <BG>!

 Just call me wantonly frivolus, I guess. <:)

 Channon


... Honk if you haven't slept with Commander Riker.
--- MachoEcho 0.5ñ
 * Origin: The State of Confusion * Arlington Tx * 817-274-1920 * (1:130/809)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 214 of 284
 From : Nicolai Shapero                     1:102/524       .îí 19 .åâ 96 08:35
 To   : Barton Paul Levenson
 Subj : Alien threats?
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Feb 17 07:29>, Barton Paul Levenson (1:129/26) wrote to Mark Jones:

 BP>Therefore, either we're alone
 BP>in the galaxy, or the aliens don't colonize.

Or they don't colonize worlds with intelligent life forms already present, or
they CAN'T colonize a system where the local lifeforms haven't exploded outward
into interstellar space already...(see David Brin's collection, RIVER OF TIME
for a possible explanation of that variety...)

-- Nicolai Shapero, the Mad Russian Sysop of StormGate Aerie

--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 215 of 284
 From : Kay Shapero                         1:102/524       .îí 19 .åâ 96 16:58
 To   : JOHN ROSS
 Subj : Help
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Feb 16 18:55>, JOHN ROSS (1:116/1977@fidonet) wrote to KAY SHAPERO:

 JR>Kay ,I heard a song at a con once called ,Banned From Argo,but
 JR>have been
 JR>unable to find a local source.Do you perchance have the lyrics?or

That I do.  Check your mailbox.  (and if it hasn't turned up within a week or
two, tell me and I'll post it here, being as Leslie's given permission to post
her stuff to the net.)

--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 216 of 284
 From : Kay Shapero                         1:102/524       .îí 19 .åâ 96 16:59
 To   : Judy Hayes
 Subj : Re: Help
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Feb 17 15:58>, Judy Hayes (1:154/40) wrote to JOHN ROSS:

 JR> Kay ,I heard a song at a con once called ,Banned From Argo,but have
 JR> been unable to find a local source.Do you perchance have the lyrics?or
 JR> if not where I could get them.


 JH>"Banned from Argos, every one.
 JH>  Banned from Argos, just for having a little fun."

 JH>That one?

"Argo", not "Argos", but that's the only one I know.  I netmailed him a copy
recently - want to see the one I have and compare notes?

--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 217 of 284
 From : Kay Shapero                         1:102/524       .îí 19 .åâ 96 17:00
 To   : Tommy Kellerman
 Subj : clarification
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Feb 16 23:16>, Tommy Kellerman (2:205/356) wrote to Kay Shapero:

 TK>Sorry for interrupting but, SF FOLKSONGS ???

 TK>Tell me all about it! (Can't access it from Sweden)

That depends - if you have internet access you can get it as alt.music.filk.
(And for that matter I've made it clear for years that if anybody wants to gate
it to another FIDO zone they've my permission to do so, so for all I know it may
be in zone 2 now, and just nobody's posting.)

Anyway, here's the "what is filk" part of the FAQ.

What is this stuff called filk?  My own favorite definition is simply
"the folk music of the science fiction/fantasy fan community."
For a more detailed description, see below:

WHAT THE HECK IS FILK MUSIC?

by Nick Smith (of LA Filkharmonics)

Well, it's sort of like folk music.  It is a mixture of song parodies
and original music, humorous and serious, about subjects like science
fiction, fantasy, computers, cats, politics, the space program, books,
movies, TV shows, love, war, death. . .

Filk music started off forty or fifty years ago, at science fiction
conventions, where people got together late at night to have good
old-fashioned folk music song circles.  Well, late night circles being
what they are, some folks got a little silly and started singing song
parodies about their favorite SF books and authors.  Fans started
writing song parodies about themselves or each other.  Some started
composing serious songs about favorite topics.  Some authors started
composing original songs for their books.  If the author didn't list a
tune, fans made up one.  Sometimes two.  Sometimes several.

Eventually, Filk songs wre written for just about every major science
fiction or fantasy work.  Some of them were actually good enough that
people wanted to learn them, or just listen to them more than just at
conventions.  At that point, song books and recordings started being
made.
 Over the last decade, Filk Music has reached the point where there
are entire Filk Music gatherings, conventions, recording companies,
and publications.  Filk Music includes song parodies, original songs,
and slightly musical poetry.  It's a fun way to indulge in a little
musical creativity, especially if you are a science fiction or fantasy
fan as well as musically inclined.  If you are only a fan, but not
musical, you can still listen.  Filk circles aren't pushy about
requiring you to play or sing.  If you are only musical, but not a
fan, no one will hold it against you.  Remember, we're in this thing
for fun!

[Written for flyer for distribution at California Traditional Music
Society Annual Summer Solstice Dulcimer Festival and other local Los
Angeles folk music events and stores.]

What Nick didn't tell you is that the name started out as a typo of
"folk"
and was gleefully adopted by all and sundry as a term for what is
after
all a somewhat unusual subset.

Kay Shapero, Moderator/Designated Topic Cop, FILK echo

--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie: Home of the FILK echo (1:102/524)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 218 of 284
 From : Darre LuAllen                       1:3637/1        .îí 19 .åâ 96 11:21
 To   : Christian Raven
 Subj : Re: Star Trek
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 On 02-13-96 Christian Raven wrote to Darre Luallen...

 >>>>>>> PART I <<<<<<<

 Let me begin by letting you know how much of an arrogant fool you truly are.
 I do not pretend that my opinions are correct and totally factual.  Nor
 do I say that you do not have the right to your own opinions.  However, you
 are not even beginning to look at the facts.  You wish to debate, then be
 prepared to provide FACTS to support your statements.  You can not call on
 history to support YOUR statements then dismiss it when I use it to support
 mine.  You are just proving to everyone here how closeminded you really are.
 So, I now return to rebut your arguments.

 CR> different species than man.  however, they ARE
 CR> intrinsically and generally different in many, many ways,
 CR> both psychologically and physically.  this is quite
 CR> obvious, as (a) there has never been a female president in
 CR> the leading country of the world, and (b) there has NEVER

 DL>  Queen Victoria?  Queen Elizibeth?  Boadicia?  Cleopatra?
 DL>  Catherine the Great?  How many world history classes DID you
 DL>  sleep through.  (assuming I understand your "female president"
 DL>  statement)

 CR>   huh?  time to lay of the drugs, friend.  i do not believe

 My recreational habits are my business, and I'll thank you not to
 speculate upon them.

 CR> that QUEEN Victoria was a president.. nor was QUEEN
 CR> Elizabeth... and i was referring to the United States...
 CR> where both you and I live... most likely the pinnacle of
 CR> freedom in the world.. the country where (at least at one
 CR> time, when feminism was seen for the angry outcry that it
 CR> is) people have had the ability to create what they can of
 CR> what they are.

 No, in fact she was a world leader who wielded REAL power, unlike the
 castrated office of President of the US.  The reason the US has never had
 a world leader is fairly complicated, but mostly harkens back to our
 Puritan origins.  This nation was founded by people who felt, as you seem
 to, that their opinion was the correct one (the Puritans) and that GOD
 would damn everyone else.  Oh, and if you think that we are free here in
 the US, open your eyes (but this is another subject).  What exactly do you
 mean by your last statement above?  Your are trying to imply something, but
 I want your words plan, so that we have no misunderstandings.

 CR> been a female weight-lifter even NEARLY as strong as a
 CR> male.  women are physically weaker, and mentally less
 CR> rational, the latter which could be obviously argued to a

 DL> Do you think that fighting someone to the death just because he
 DL> insulted you is very rational?  Or perhaps the rounding up of fellow

 CR> yes. at the time when this occurred, it was very rational. if you were
 CR> to show to others that you were woman-like (i.e. run to the
 CR> corner and cry) then you were of no use to the society.  do
 CR> you think that worrying about make-up is very rational?
 CR> and please, don't come back with a "well, there are some
 CR> women who do not wear makeup" because this is quite
 CR> obvious.  on a similar line, there are some men who
 CR> naturally are born with breasts.  obviously, in an issue
 CR> like this, we must speak *generally*.  please keep this in
 CR> mind.

 I didn't ask for how they felt.  I asked if YOU thought it was rational.
 Hitler and the Germans of 1933-1945 felt it rational to destroy an entire
 ethnic group.  Does that make it okay by our standards?  Do you agree with
 it because they thought it was okay?  (No need to answer.  This is an
 extreme example given so that you will understand my point.)

 Men have always preformed irrational actions.  Case in point, head butting.
 The part of the body that is the most sensitive to damage is the brain.  It
 controls the body, keeps you alive.  Any damage to the brain is permenant.
 Brain tissue regenerates so slowly that your lifespan would be up before
 you healed.  Yet, men take chances with so delicate an organ?  Two football
 players get excited and begin to smash heads.  Yes, the helmets provide some
 protection, as does the skull.  Yet, here they still are taking a chance.
 And for what?  A male bonding ritual.  Rational?

 In the same time period you are discussing, MEN wore make-up and wigs.
 They dressed in silken clothing and carried perfumed handkerchiefs up
 their sleeves so that they could very daintily dab their faces.  Before
 you say anything about this, I'll warn you that this is my speciality.
 I'm a writer and I write swashbuckler fiction.  I've studied the time
 period.

                                             Darre LuAllen

___
 * OFFLINE 1.56 * "That's entertainment." - Vlad the Impaler.

--- Maximus/2 3.01
 * Origin: Cumberland BBS TN 615/526-3347 V34 (1:3637/1)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 219 of 284
 From : Darre LuAllen                       1:3637/1        .îí 19 .åâ 96 11:22
 To   : Christian Raven
 Subj : Star Trek Sexism
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 On 02-13-96 Christian Raven wrote to Darre Luallen...

 >>>>>> PART II <<<<<<

 CR> yes, *some* women in *some* societies have been burdened
 CR> with *some* of the male's responsibilities, but not many...
 CR> for instance, women, whether african, or indian, or many
 CR> other cultures, were never taught to hunt.  some cultures
 CR> even PROHIBITED women from hunting, for fear that their
 CR> fragility might be threatened.

 DL> "fragility" - I'm not a woman, so I cannot speak from experience (nor do
 DL>  I want to be able to).  However, have you even considered the pain and
 DL>  suffering encountered due to childbirth?  I've had nasty injuries, but

 CR>   no, i have not considered this.  nor do i particularly
 CR> care.  the vagina is an organ which was meant for 3 basic
 CR> purposes: a) release of urine, b) fertilization, and c)
 CR> childbirth.  although i would not personally like to have a
 CR> baby, i find this irrelevant to the conversation.

             ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
 Gee, this evidence is irrifutable, so therefore I will ignore it.  Good job.
 Are you a televangelist or a politician.  You state the woman is more
 fragile, yet here is an example of something that a majority of women
 most endure in order for the species to survive.  So, you cannot ignore it.
 Also, if we men are so tough, then why do women live longer.  Don't say
 because we do all the work.  Scientist have proven that men's brains
 deteriorate three times faster than women's.  So, who's the fragile one.

 DL>  smaller bodily openings.  Frankly, I don't think that I could take it.
 DL>  And if you think that you could do it and keep smiling, then you're a
 DL>  superhuman mutant or a fool.

 CR>   whatever.  i made no refreneces to the fact that i could
 CR> have a baby and smile simultaniously.

 Yet, but stating that men are "better" physically, you imply that you can
 preform ANY physical action that a woman could do and do it better.  Let's
 forget that you aren't wired for childbirth.  Do you think that you could
 do it better than a woman?  If not, then men are not necessarily better,
 just different.

 DL> Most of the cultures you elude to have a strict policy of keeping the
 DL> people necessary to creating the future food gathers out of the path of
 DL> wild animals.  Stop to think what would happen to a village if all the
 DL> women were killed off because some stupid hunter caused the animal to
 DL> women were killed off

 CR> ahh!  you have finally caught my drift (well part of it anyway). yes,
 CR> you are absolutely right.  but you just put your foot in your
 CR> mouth by agreeing with me and therefore contradicting
 CR> yourself... as i had said, WOMEN WERE NOT ALLOWED TO HUNT.
 CR> "why" is not something which pertains to anything i have
 CR> said.

 Here is where your arrogance shows itself.  I know exactly where my foot is.
 And it is no where near my mouth.  Besides, you've used the phrase
 incorrectly.  So, let me begin.  You state that women are weaker, thus
 they are not allowed to hunt.  I reply that no, in fact women are not
 allowed to hunt because they bear the children and gather the non-meat food.
 Now, you state that I agree with you and the reasons why are not important.
 Hum... I think you are practicing a little revisionist history.  The reason
 IS important, since it is the SUBJECT of the debate.  I'm sorry if I'm not
 able to support your bold generalizations, but do not dismiss the arguments
 just because you can't support your point.

 As someone else on this echo has pointed out, the work of gathering the
 so important veggies and fruits is just as hard and dangerous as hunting.
 A group of women, unarmed, go out in the morning to find the very thing that
 the large animals also seek.  And where large herbavores are, large
 predators are also.  Danger!!!  Hauling around a basket filled with enough
 food to feed a family is also hard work.  And with each day coming and
 going, the search for food must cover a larger area.  Therefore, the walk
 with the full basket becomes harder.

 These are my opinions, supported with as much evidence as possible.  If you
 still insist upon your view, then you are welcome to it.  I've just stated
 my side.

                                             Darre LuAllen




___
 * OFFLINE 1.56 * Ring, Ring! Pick up the Clue Phone!


--- Maximus/2 3.01
 * Origin: Cumberland BBS TN 615/526-3347 V34 (1:3637/1)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 220 of 284
 From : Darre LuAllen                       1:3637/1        .îí 19 .åâ 96 11:34
 To   : The Raven
 Subj : Excuse Me?
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 On 02-12-96 The Raven wrote to Darre LuAllen...

 Howdy, Jack.  Nice to see you again.

 TR>  "This just in from our Moscow bureau..."

 Shesh.  No one's s'pose to know...

 DL> I can think of three reasons, all bad: 1) Cheap (read slave)
 DL> labor, 2) free land (like they couldn't find a better planet),
 DL> and 3) food (remember the original "V" TV movies?)

 TR> Somehow I don't think so.  Interstellar travel would be such a major
 TR> undertaking that any society that could accomplish it wouldn't *need*
 TR> cheap labor.  Robots would be much less expensive than building an
 TR> interstellar ship, making the decades-long journey, and then fighting it
 TR> out with the natives on the other end, then shipping either the natives
 TR> (if you decide to ship them home) or the products you are using them as
 TR> labor for (if you decide to set up production facilities there...) home.

 Technologically speaking, you are correct.  However, psychologically
 speaking, they might have reservations to creating mechanical servants.
 We humans have some strange notions that don't hold up to logic.  For
 instance, a man can get married, vote for a world leader, drive a car and
 join the military to go off to kill and die by the age eighteen.  And
 after doing all of that, he can't have one stinking screwdriver to relax
 with.  Hmm... not logical, but to someone it makes sense.  Also take
 into consideration all the ethical questions genetic engineering is
 causing.

 TR> As for land, there's lots of it here in the solar system that you don't
 TR> need to fight us over... the Moon comes to mind, as do the asteroids,
 TR> Mars, Europa, Titan, and half a dozen other planets/moons/asteroids/and
 TR> other big rocks.

 If they just need land.  Perhaps they like trees.  Maybe they like the
 Earth because they want to build summer homes.  Again, psychology.  They
 are alien, after all.  We have no way of knowing what they would be
 interested in.

 TR> And food?  Considering the chance that we are biologically compatible
 TR> with anything that shows up out of the sky are so remote...

 Maybe, maybe not.  The odds are incalculatable since we don't know anything
 about our potential invaders.

                                         At your Service,
                                         Darre LuAllen
                                         Rogue without a Clue
___
 * OFFLINE 1.56 * How come wrong numbers are never busy?


--- Maximus/2 3.01
 * Origin: Cumberland BBS TN 615/526-3347 V34 (1:3637/1)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 221 of 284
 From : Darre LuAllen                       1:3637/1        .îí 19 .åâ 96 11:51
 To   : Mark Jones
 Subj : Bs!!
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 On 02-16-96 Mark Jones wrote to Darre LuAllen...

 MJ> Cheap labor? I don't think so....

 MJ> out--no matter how advanced your technology is. If you've got the
 MJ> industrial base to build a fleet of interstellar warships, you
 MJ> can probably build a robotic (or at least highly mechanized)
 MJ> economy. You won't *need* aliens for brute labor.

 DL> True. You would have to assume that their robotics technology has
 DL> kept up with their drive tech. Otherwise,... Of course, it also
 DL> depends upon the moral ethics of the alien race (being alien and
 DL> all that). If they have a hang up with creating what might be
 DL> considered mechanical beings, then grabbing slaves would be
 DL> cheap. I'm not assuming AI's here, just a religious paradox sort
 DL> of like what can be seen here with Genetic Engineering.

 MJ> I find it hard to believe that aliens could have a taboo against
 MJ> exploiting robots, but have no problem with enslaving aliens.  On the
 MJ> other hand, they're aliens, so maybe I'm being egocentric.  I think
 MJ> the aliens would have to view slave-holding as a virtue in and of
 MJ> itself (sort of like S. M. Stirling's Draka culture) before going out
 MJ> and enslaving aliens made any sort of sense.

 For centuries, humans had problems enslaving their own tribes, clans,
 nationalities, races, etc., but would sell the guy in the next village
 for a few coins.  The Church supported Knightly Orders sold children
 as slaves to the Turks in the Middle Ages.  Double standards may not
 be solely a human trait.

 MJ> Fighting over the limited habitable real estate in the galaxy seems
 MJ> like a more plausible excuse for interstellar raids.

 Here I agree completely with you.  We really don't know what the
 interstellar climate is like, so we might even be overlooking some other
 factors for invasion.  Suppose an alien race decides to "protect us" from
 a more aggressive race.  Wouldn't a sudden appearance of an alien force
 wanting to occupy the Earth be an considered an invasion?

                                              At your Service,
                                              Darre LuAllen
                                              Defender of the Realm
___
 * OFFLINE 1.56 * I've got a cunning plan!

--- Maximus/2 3.01
 * Origin: Cumberland BBS TN 615/526-3347 V34 (1:3637/1)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 222 of 284
 From : Darre LuAllen                       1:3637/1        .îí 19 .åâ 96 12:01
 To   : Kay Shapero
 Subj : Re: Star Trek
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 On 02-17-96 Kay Shapero wrote to Darre LuAllen...

 From message originally to Ecarey:

 DL> arguments are wasted at this point.  You know, SF/F stories are
 DL> littered with people like this.  (Swerve... Crash... Are we back on
 DL> topic yet? 8) )

 DL> Usually, they get eaten by the alien beastie or de-selected by
 DL> the heroes/villians.

 KS>  Frankly I suspect this one is a ringer.  I suppose he
 KS> *could* be for real, but he sounds like someone playing a
 KS> role to see how many people he can fool.

 Perhaps.  I do know that arrogance like his really gets my dander up.
 Oh, well.  I've stated by points as intelligently as possible.  I hope
 I've not misrepresented myself or the facts.  I also hope the subject is
 over.  The debate is approaching serious "off-topic" territory.

 KS> And speaking of irritating life forms, I'm most of the way
 KS> through my reread of Patricia Wrede's Enchanted Forest
 KS> books now that they're all collected in one place, and I
 KS> find myself noticing how much the wizards remind me of
 KS> certain politicians, and wondering what effect a carefully
 KS> applied bucket of soapy water with lemon would have on
 KS> same.  :->

 How about a recommendation on these?  I'm looking for some good books
 to read as soon as I'm finished with my Comparitive Lit class
 (Pop Culture: SF/F).  Right now, I'm suppose to be reading _Dune_, but
 I'm holding off on it.  I've read it before, so I'll just review it
 before the test.  As for the politicians, you can't help them with soap
 only.  Most of the problem is probably genetic.  I really hope scientists
 can isolate the Politician gene soon, so we can prevent this birth defect.

                                            At your Service,
                                            Darre LuAllen
                                            Struggling to stay on topic

 P.S. - If Nicolai decides to make the sexism thing off-topic, I'll go
 quietly (and perhaps happily).

___
 * OFFLINE 1.56 * Imagination is intelligence having fun.


--- Maximus/2 3.01
 * Origin: Cumberland BBS TN 615/526-3347 V34 (1:3637/1)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 223 of 284
 From : Frank Glover                        1:2613/477      .îí 19 .åâ 96 22:11
 To   : Barton Paul Levenson
 Subj : Re: Cybersex
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

BP>  Loverbirds" (very daring when it first came out).  Or anything by
BP>  Heinlein after he became obsessed with sex.

   Starting around `Stranger In A Strange Land,' eh?

   Frank


--- QuickBBS 2.80 GoldBase (Zeta-1)
 * Origin: The Matrix Data Bank BBS, Rochester, Ny (1:2613/477)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 224 of 284
 From : Frank Glover                        1:2613/477      .îí 19 .åâ 96 22:28
 To   : Barton Paul Levenson
 Subj : Re: Alien threats?
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

BP>  They would have already done it.
BP>
BP>  Look, the Milky Way galaxy is about 10 billion years old.  Probably
BP>  it's had intelligent occupants for the last 4-6 billion years.  But
BP>  studies (mostly published in Icarus in the '70s) show that even at
BP>  sublight speeds, the galaxy would be completely colonized much faster
BP>  than that.  Therefore, either we're alone in the galaxy, or the

   A possibility. This is known as the Fermi Paradox,and I admit I don't have a
good answer to it, either. If FTL is possible, it's even harder to explain.
David Brin has argued for the possibility of predatory (for whatever reason)
races, and I'm willing to entertain,but not swear to this one.

   Also, in a galaxy and Universe of finite age, maybe life arises more slowly
than we think. Perhaps it will be full of sentients one day, but *somebody* had
to be the first...maybe we're among the first. (Mind you, I'm not comfortable
with this idea, even if true. It's a heavy responsibility to think *we* might
end up being the wise, old, mysterious race that others will one day look for/up
to.)


BP>  than that.  Therefore, either we're alone in the galaxy, or the
BP>  aliens don't colonize.  I rather think the latter is enforced by
BP>  other races out of self-defense.  The only way to bring on a negative
BP>  first contact would be by trying to expand without permission.

   But how do you enforce non-expansion by others by staying home yourself? How
would one get permission without meeting? (If `asking permission' is even in
your nature or social, political, religious or other belief system?)

   Frank


--- QuickBBS 2.80 GoldBase (Zeta-1)
 * Origin: The Matrix Data Bank BBS, Rochester, Ny (1:2613/477)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 225 of 284
 From : Jaimie Park                         1:3666/603      .åò 15 .åâ 96 18:30
 To   : All
 Subj : x-files
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12  93-0191
hello, this is jaimie park and i'm calling out to all those x-philes
across the country.  i'm dying for some stimulating conversation about
the show with someone who actually knows what they're talking about.
please contact me.

--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12
 * Origin: High Tech Center BBS 21.6K USR/DST  (1:3666/603.0)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 226 of 284
 From : Bill Clements                       1:18/230        .îí 19 .åâ 96 15:19
 To   : Judy Hayes
 Subj : EDUCATION
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On (14 Feb 96) JUDY HAYES wrote to PHILL ASH...

 JH> Well, I must say that *you* have much more faith in me than
 JH> I do.  My daughter is only in 4th grade and she's already
 JH> losing me at some points.  Plus, she's been dianosted as
 JH> possibly have ADD....I'm not sure I would have the patience
 JH> to teach her if she *was* paying attention. I do know my
 JH> limitations and am aware of how much it would take.

If your daughter has been diagnosed as having Attention Deficit
Disorder the _ONLY_ way she is likely to be educated is through
your efforts.  The "Professional Educators", I use the term under
advisedment, will place her in a "Special" program where she will
get a "Special Diploma" or a Certificate of Attendance rather
than graduate from high school.  She then can attempt to get a
General Equivalency Diploma before applying for a job, or work at
menial labor for the rest of her life.  It is possible that she
may qualify to work in a Sheltered Workshop and live in a group
home, sponsored by the Association for Retarded Citizens, if you
are not able to support her as an adult.  Private, or Home,
Education can probably save your child's future.  Public
Education leaves her no future at all!

I am truly sorry for having to tell you this but I have seen this
happen.  I wish you and your children the best.

To remain on topic I suggest that you read 'THE HAPPY DAYS AHEAD'
in 'EXPANDED UNIVERSE' (C)opyright 1980 by Robert A. Heinlein.

--RWC

"It's amazing how much 'mature wisdom' resembles being too tired." --LL

--- PPoint 2.00 / QWK

--- FLAME v1.1
 * Origin: ANCESTRY TBBS Shadows of forgotten ancestors 941-382-9061 (1:18/230)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 227 of 284
 From : Judy Hayes                          1:154/40        .òp 20 .åâ 96 03:02
 To   : JOHN ROSS
 Subj : Re: Help
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

-> "Who me? I'm just plain & simple." said JOHN.

 JR> THATS THE ONE!!!! Love it and all ? of it's rather randy verses.
 JR> Are you a local Judy ,or one of our FIDO_NET friends.Let me know.
 JR> TTYL

Hmmmmmm.....you didn't quote my message but I'll take a guess that you are
the gentleman that was looking for the lyrics to "Banned from Argos". <g>

I'm a local....just not local to you. <BG>  I'm in Wisconsin.

I'll now begin trying to track down the lyrics for you....I have a friend
who has mounds of Filk songbooks.  Surely she *must* have that one in there
somewhere.  I'll give her a call this week and then you can either Netmail
me an address to mail it to or I can type it in and NetMail it to you....
whichever seems more equitable.

However,  PLEASE, post your request to me again around...say, Friday, 3/1,
and I'll give you an update on whether I found it or not.  If you don't
repost to me I'm sure to forget who it was that asked for it....My mind is
not what it once was.  I tell people that I gave 1/2 of my brain cells to
my children.  Since I had 2 children that means I now have no brain cells
left for myself. <g>

      --Quoshara




... I'm OLD....What's your excuse?
---
 * Origin: Anonymous BBS -=- Non plus Ultra -=- 414-251-2580 (1:154/40)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 228 of 284
 From : Pavel Viaznikov                     2:5020/185.9    .cê 18 .åâ 96 15:55
 To   : Tommy Kellerman
 Subj : Ufo
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.RFC-Path:
apex!f200.n464!f400.n5020!f35.n5020!f144.n5020!f269.n5020!f185.n5020!not-for-mai
l
Ïpèâåòñòâóþ, Tommy!

Monday February 05 1996 20:41, Tommy Kellerman wrote to David Johnston:

 DJ> ->> Tonight, about 6 P.M. CMT (Central Meridian Time) I was on my way
 DJ> ->> home from the bus-station when I noticed a strange-looking "star"
 DJ> ->> in the curtain of night. No clouds were about, and no moon
 DJ> ->> shone. Imagine a bright star, like Venus, and triple the
 DJ> ->> brightness.

 TK> I saw it in Furudal (transl. "Pine Valley"), a small town in the middle
 TK> region of Sweden, and I guess you're right about it looking like a
 TK> star. You can't estimate the distance to a star, and maybe not to this
 TK> either, but it was much more closer than a satellite or a star, and it

 - Under proper weather conditions still could be a big satellite...

 TK> kept on dropping these shooting stars on the ground, so I can't accept TK>
 TK> idea of it being a reflection, nor diffraction. And if it was
 TK> a reflection, how come I wasn't the only witness?

 - No offence meant please... but in such cases I usually ask, how far from the
nearest pub the witnesses were?.. ;)
   Joking aside, such effects can be also produced by:
   - Most probably, a big bolide shedding down pieces of itself;
   - Ball lighting (being actually lower than you presumed);
   - Launch of a rocket (and reflections etc. do weiriest things to them! I
personnally managed to see a quite similar "UFO" about 350 km from Plisetsk, a
Russian space center);
   - An interesting kind of a firework;
   - A UFO camouflaged as any of the above ;))

 TK> About diffraction, we have
 TK> these beautiful colors appearing some nights on the sky (Sorry, don't seem
 TK> to recall what it's called in English) that the Swedes call "Northern
 TK> shine".

- Aurora Borealis is the scientific term, and the "Northern Lights" are quite
good in English (AFAIK).

 TK> But whatever I saw, I know that I've never seen anything like
 TK> this...

- So you're lucky; whatever it was, it must be a rare thing!

                                                      Yours, Pavel

--- ifmail v.2.8
 * Origin: God bless you, merry gentlemen! (2:5020/185.9)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 229 of 284
 From : Pavel Viaznikov                     2:5020/185.9    .cê 18 .åâ 96 15:57
 To   : Tommy Kellerman
 Subj : X-FILES
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.RFC-Path:
apex!f200.n464!f400.n5020!f35.n5020!f144.n5020!f269.n5020!f185.n5020!not-for-mai
l
Ïpèâåòñòâóþ, Tommy!

Monday February 05 1996 23:10, Tommy Kellerman wrote to Owen E. Oulton:

 FS>> syzygy: a pair of things, eps. a pair of opposites
 TK> How do you pronounce this word?

- See-zee-gee, all "ee"s short and the 1st syllable stressed, says my
dictionary. ("Gee" as the letter G's name, not like in "geese").

                                           Yours, Pavel.

--- ifmail v.2.8
 * Origin: God bless you, merry gentlemen! (2:5020/185.9)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 230 of 284
 From : Steven Sullivan                     1:289/34        .óá 17 .åâ 96 12:52
 To   : Chris Ogniben
 Subj : BS!!
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
CO>  But, i know that if
CO>you take our race and put it up with other life forms of race that
CO>exist out there, i can assure you that the human race is crap

CO>And that is why being a human, is just saying to the universe of space,
CO>i am crap, but, i am alive and have to live with it.

Please don't have children.  Thanks.

ape

--- FLAME v1.1
 * Origin: Holy Bytes, it's The Batboard TBBS - (314) 446-0475 (1:289/34)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 231 of 284
 From : Steven Sullivan                     1:289/34        .îí 19 .åâ 96 07:13
 To   : Chris Ogniben
 Subj : BS!!
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
CO>  But, i know that if
CO>you take our race and put it up with other life forms of race that
CO>exist out there, i can assure you that the human race is crap

CO>And that is why being a human, is just saying to the universe of space,
CO>i am crap, but, i am alive and have to live with it.

Please don't have children.  Thanks.

ape

--- FLAME v1.1
 * Origin: Holy Bytes, it's The Batboard TBBS - (314) 446-0475 (1:289/34)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 232 of 284
 From : Jon Helis                           1:3800/25       .óá 03 .åâ 96 22:33
 To   : Frank Glover
 Subj : Re: Star Trek Generations
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 -=> Quoting Frank Glover to Chris Carter <=-

 FG> @MSGID: 1:2613/477 3117A505

 CC>  If another ST film is made following the events in "Generations," I
 CC>  imagine the Enterprise-E will have a configuration similar to the
 CC>  standard main hull / secondary hull / twin-nacelle design that has
 CC>  always been the paradigm for starships called 'Enterprise.'  Still, a
 CC>  few new wrinkles will be added...
 FG>
 FG> Or maybe the path of least resistance. The next Galaxy-class ship
 FG> off the line....
 FG>
 FG> But maybe with Voyager's bio-pack computers, rather than the older
 FG> isolinear stuff.

 CC>  But please, NO articulated warp nacelle mounts!
 FG>
 FG> Those wouldn't bother me as much if they simply gave a *reason* for
 FG> the articulation. Still, I wouldn't worry. Voyager-class ships seem
 FG> too  small for the kind of long duration missions the Enterprise does.
 FG> (Which makes it all the harder for the one stuck 70.000 ly from home.)

One problem I had with TNG was the families.  With all the risks
of deep space travel, bringing families along wasn't a good
idea.  Getting sent all the way to "Where No One Has Gone
Before" by the Traveler, transported to another quadrant to meet
the Borg by Q, and even having the children kidnapped in "When
the Bough Breaks" are examples of this.  The best example was in
Generations with the crash of the Enterprise after being shot up
by the Duras sisters, too risky for that many civilians I think.

Voyager was designed it seems primarily for short term missions.
It has a smaller crew, only 200, around half of the original
Enterprise.  The mission to run down the Maquis ship was only
supposed to be "a couple of weeks" according to one
episode(I don't remember which one, but I do remember a female
ensign telling Janeway at the end that she was pregnant when the
mission began, but thought it wouldn't be a problem since they
were only supposed to be out a couple of weeks).

A good deep space vessel, similar to the original Enterprise,
with all the new Federation technology, would be an amazing
ship.  I hope we get to see it.



... Klingon prompt: strike any user when ready.
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

--- PCBoard (R) v15.22/M 10
 * Origin: * DataCom BBS - Baton Rouge, La. -  (504)275-2605 - @dcbbs.com *
(1:3800/25)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 233 of 284
 From : Jon Helis                           1:3800/25       .cê 04 .åâ 96 01:05
 To   : All
 Subj : Kate Mulgrew on Tom Snyde
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 * Originally By: Mark Holtz
 * Originally To: All
 * Originally Re: Kate Mulgrew on Tom Snyde
 * Original Area: TREK_VOYAGER
 * Forwarded by : Blue Wave v2.12

@SUBJECT:Kate Mulgrew on Tom Snyder (possible repeat)                N
#PID: BWTG 3.11 [Reg]
@MSGID: 1:203/1701.0 311e75da
 * Originally By: jbn@mystery-train.cu-online.com
 * Originally To: All
 * Originally Re: Kate Mulgrew on Tom Snyder (possible repeat)
 * Original Date: 07 Feb 96  12:11:10
 * Original Area: Star Trek News & Info (Usenet)
 * Forwarded by : Blue Wave/DOS v2.21

On Friday, February 16 on CBS at 11:30 central, Kate Mulgrew (Star Trek:
Voyager's Captain Kathryn Janeway) will visit The Late Late Show with Tom
Snyder.  Explorers Steve and Donna O'Mearas will also be guests.

In some areas this airs live after The Late Show with David Letterman, in
other areas there is a delay.  Unfortunately, I can not determine whether
this is a repeat of her previous appearance or if this is a new show (my
television listing nor the web page below don't indicate repeats).

CBS' Tom Snyder web page at http://www.cbs.com/cgi-bin/snyguests.cgi

--
-!---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Selected by Jim "The Big Dweeb" Griffith.                Email submissions to
trek-info@xcf.berkeley.edu, questions to trek-info-request@xcf.berkeley.edu

-!- News headers follow ---
Path:
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t
-for-mail
From: jbn@mystery-train.cu-online.com (J.B. Nicholson-Owens)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.info
Subject: Kate Mulgrew on Tom Snyder (possible repeat)
Followup-To: rec.arts.startrek.misc
Date: 7 Feb 1996 12:11:10 -0800
Organization: Organizing Organisms & Organs
Lines: 16
Sender: griffith@scam.XCF.Berkeley.EDU
Approved: griffith@xcf.berkeley.edu
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 ! Origin: Net 203 Services | Email & Newsgroups Co-op $2/mo (1:203/8055)


... If you go around assimlating people - YMBAT
-!- Blue Wave/DOS v2.21
 ! Origin: Deep Space Franchise (916) 721-1701 (1:203/1701)
@SEEN!BY: 270/101 280/1 396/1 3615/50 51
@PATH: 203/1701 333 15 270/101 396/1 3615/50
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

--- PCBoard (R) v15.22/M 10
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(1:3800/25)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 234 of 284
 From : Jon Helis                           1:3800/25       .cê 04 .åâ 96 01:08
 To   : All
 Subj : Star Trek:The Experience
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
I found this on the Voyager echo.  What do all of you think?


 * Originally By: Mark Holtz
 * Originally To: All
 * Originally Re: Star Trek:The Experience
 * Original Area: TREK_VOYAGER
 * Forwarded by : Blue Wave v2.12

@SUBJECT:Star Trek:The Experience groundbreaking                     N
#PID: BWTG 3.11 [Reg]
@MSGID: 1:203/1701.0 311e75e0
Hey, Larry, looks like you can plan your vacation next year in Vegas! I sure
would love to go!

== Forwarded Message Follows =========================================

 * Originally By: snoop@vegas.infi.net
 * Originally To: All
 * Originally Re: Star Trek:The Experience groundbreaking
 * Original Date: 07 Feb 96  17:02:22
 * Original Area: Star Trek News & Info (Usenet)
 * Forwarded by : Blue Wave/DOS v2.21

The source for the article comes from the January 25, 1996 Las Vegas Review
Journal, Page 1A and 2A.  My summary Follows:

Hi there everyone!

Living in Las Vegas we get some nice perks:  We can lose all our money at
the tables, good cheap food and soon to come, Star Trek:The Experience!

Recently on January 24th top executives from Hilton Hotels as well as
Paramount Parks held the official groundbreaking ceremony for this fantastic
sounding attraction.

Star Trek:The Experience will be many things.  It's 65,000 quare feet will
contain such goodies as a mock up version of the bridge of the starship
Enterprise, a 22 minute long shuttlecraft simulator ride, a dining and
retail area, and a 22,000 square foot casino (this is after all Las Vegas).
The casino area (Spacequest Casino) will feature windows high above the
floor that will simulate the illusion of orbiting the earth on a space station.


The ceremony was itself rather impressive, they had a simulated wormhole
implosion, and a large fireworks display, that showed itself in the form of
the Star Trek logo with the words Star Trek:The Experience under that.

Also attending the ceremony were Trek stars, Jonathan Frakes, Gates
McFadden, and Armin Shimerman.  Star Trek:The Experience is slated to open
in the spring of 1997.

If you have any more questions about this project, please feel free to
E-Mail me at:
Snoop@vegas.infi.net and I'll try to answer them for you.  For now though it
looks like it's time to get a job application!  :)

Evan J. Malik

End of article.

Evan

--
-!---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Selected by Jim "The Big Dweeb" Griffith.                Email submissions to
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Path:
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gate!not-for-mail
From: snoop@vegas.infi.net (Snoop)
Newsgroups: rec.arts.startrek.info
Subject: Star Trek:The Experience groundbreaking
Followup-To: rec.arts.startrek.misc
Date: 7 Feb 1996 17:02:22 -0800
Organization: Vulcan Science Academy, Tau Ceti Sector
Lines: 43
Sender: griffith@scam.XCF.Berkeley.EDU
Approved: griffith@xcf.berkeley.edu
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======================================================================

... OK, I'm weird! But I'm saving up to become eccentric.
-!- Blue Wave/DOS v2.21
 ! Origin: Deep Space Franchise (916) 721-1701 (1:203/1701)
@SEEN!BY: 270/101 280/1 396/1 3615/50 51
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___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

--- PCBoard (R) v15.22/M 10
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(1:3800/25)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 235 of 284
 From : Jon Helis                           1:3800/25       .pä 14 .åâ 96 04:05
 To   : Dean Sweatman
 Subj : Re: Messages
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 -=> Quoting Dean Sweatman to Jon Helis <=-

 DS> @MSGID: 1:396/40 4d16c2fd
 DS> @TID: InterEcho 1.12 6E010867
 -=> Quoting Jon Helis to Dean Sweatman <=-

 JH> I have been posting, not in volume, but posting. 3 messages
 JH> went out of here on January 27 and 5 January 29, and 2(including
 JH> this one) on February 2(tonight), have you seen them?

 DS> 960213 (2/13)
 DS> I am happy to report that your traffic showed up on Reunion today some
 DS> 12 messages dated between 1/29 and 2/03.  What ever the log jam was it
 DS> seems now to have been cleared.  The traffic as not made it to Black
 DS> Tower as yet but may arrive there later tonight or tomorrow depending
 DS> on when he next gets a connect to the system.  Black Tower closes down
 DS> on the 15th ... another good board lost due to lack of interest by the
 DS> user base.<sigh>
 DS> Fiawol

Thank goodness!  It's great that the pipeline has been
unclogged.  I got both copies of this on the same day(2/14/96).

Sorry to hear about Black Tower closing down.  It seems that
alot of BBSes are closing, I guess due to increasingly available
internet.  Locally, there are a good number of BBSes for a city
this size, but it seems alot of them are pay boards.  I get alot
of use out of this board, it's a bargain at $35/year.

There's a rumor starting in the Deep Space 9 echo about the show
being switched from syndication to UPN.  Have you heard anything
about it?  Someone posted that in his market, the show had
switched to the UPN affiliate, during the broadcast the UPN logo
was in the lower right corner of the screen, and they did that
split screen thing UPN does during the Voyager end credits.  I
hope the rumor isn't true.

Here in Baton Rouge, DS9 airs on WVLA-33, our NBC affiliate,
Sunday nights at 11.  Although that's too late for me to stay up
and watch(I have to be at work at 7:45 on Monday morning), I
tape it and watch it later in the week, along with the new Outer
Limits, which comes on after it.  If DS9 switches to UPN, it
will end up on WBTR-19, the UPN affiliate.  That station has a
terrible signal, even with my new set of Radio Shack rabbit
ears, I still can't clear it up, and I've decided I'm not going
to spend $26/month on cable(probably even more with that new
telecom bill Clinton just signed).  I've been enjoying DS9 this
season, and would hate to see it end up on a station with such
poor signal quality.

I know DS9 switched to the UPN affiliate in New Orleans, but the
official reason given for that was channel 26 wouldn't be able
to accomodate it with the ABC lineup taking up most of the
schedule.  Let me know what you've heard, if anything.

Number Six







... I am not a number, I am a free man!
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Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 236 of 284
 From : Jon Helis                           1:3800/25       .pä 14 .åâ 96 04:12
 To   : Dean Sweatman
 Subj : Re: con report
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 -=> Quoting Dean Sweatman to Jon Helis <=-

 DS> @MSGID: 1:396/40 4d16c30e
 DS> @TID: InterEcho 1.12 6E010867
 -=> Quoting Jon Helis to Dean Sweatman <=-

 JH> That Con report you wrote was last month was pretty good.  Did
 JH> you ever get any repsonses to it?

 DS> Not much.  Someone took issue with my comments re Brent Spiner not
 DS> showing up but it was otherwise ignored.

 DS> Coast Con is upcoming on the Mississippi Gulf Coast (Biloxi) at the
 DS> end of March.  Are you Game?

 DS> Fiawol

I'm not sure if I can make it.  March 9 and 10, I have the
Lafayette Hamfest to go to.  I may end up spending most of my
money there<grin>.

The Cajun Clickers has it's computer expo in November, I'll get
the details to you as I get them.

I visted an interesting bookstore over the weekend,
Books-A-Million over by the mall.  They had a huge selection of
books and magazines, a good amount of fantasy/sf too.  The place
even has a coffee shop inside it.  They also had some comic
books there, but not near the selection of the comic shop in
Chalmette we went to.

This message and the last one are going to be cross posted to
you in EMAIL, in case this mess with the SFFAN backlog starts up
again.

Number Six



... Sickbay 6: We'll leave the doctor on for ya.
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(1:3800/25)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 237 of 284
 From : Jon Helis                           1:3800/25       .pä 14 .åâ 96 06:51
 To   : Robert Lidgren
 Subj : Re: "Q" on VOYAGER
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 -=> Quoting Robert Lidgren to All <=-

 RL> This is it!  The week in which "Q" appears on Star Trek:  Voyager.
 RL> Has anyone head anything at all about the CONTENT of the show?  All
 RL> I've heard is that "Q" is going to appear and, I assume, "Let the fun
 RL> begin!"  He certainly seems to have a secure future as a character in
 RL> the many Star Trek incarnations.  I wonder if he'll also make an
 RL> appearance in the next STTNG movie.  Has anyone heard anything about
 RL> what's up with the new movie?
 RL> I'll be very thankful for any input here.  I feel like I've been
 RL> marooned and "cut off" from the latest news re: these subjects.

 RL> Thanks in advance from a friendly Canadian!

All I've heard about the STTNG movie is that it will bring back
the Borg.  I don't know if this is true, just something I've
read someplace.




... 2 rules for success: #1 Don't tell everything you know.
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(1:3800/25)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 238 of 284
 From : Jon Helis                           1:3800/25       .pä 14 .åâ 96 06:57
 To   : Ecarey
 Subj : RE: STAR TREK SEXISM
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 -=> Quoting Ecarey to Barton Paul Levenson <=-

 Ec> Remember, Roddenberry was responsible for Number One in the first
 Ec> pilot, "The Cage". _That_ was not a woman who thought starship command
 Ec> was out of her reach.

It was a funny thing, both her and Mr. Spock were among the
things the corporate network fatcats didn't like about "The
Cage."  The pilot was also dubbed "too cerebral" is well.  They
thing we viewers are a bunch of idiots.

Spock turned out to be one of the most popular characters, I
wonder if the same thing would have happened to Number One.



... I! am! Kirkutus! -- of! Borg!   Prepare! to! be! -- assimilated!
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(1:3800/25)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 239 of 284
 From : Jon Helis                           1:3800/25       .pä 14 .åâ 96 09:23
 To   : Channon Lang
 Subj : Re: Star Trek
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 -=> Quoting Channon Lang to Jon Helis <=-

 CL> @MSGID: 1:130/809.0 3122c4a9
 CL> #PID: BWRA 3.11 [Eval]
 CL> @TID: GE 1.11+
 CL> From a dark bottomless pit,Jon Helis screamed up to Channon Lang about
 CL> Star Trek..

 KW> first started, being one of them "Nothing can replace Kirk & Company"
 KW> fanatics....I got better!) <g>
 CL>
 CL> Yeah, I know what you mean. I was that way about TNG, too. My dad
 CL> still refuses to watch DS9, but somehow he tolerates V'ger. I keep
 CL> trying to give V'ger the benefit of the doubt. But, to tell you what,
 CL> if they don't start doing MUCH better, I'll have to finally write it
 CL> off. Actually, I like Janeway, but the writers need to really start
 CL> working...maybe get some writers from TNG or something...or start
 CL> totally new...who knows.

 JH> When I first heard about TNG, I thought it would be hard to top
 JH> the original.  Once it started, I changed my mind.  Like you, I
 JH> think it got better too.

 JH> I enjoy watching DS9, but Voyager, sometimes it's good, while at
 JH> other times, outright disappointing.  This inconsistency is
 JH> slowly starting to push me away.  Unless they start coming up
 JH> with good scripts, I may write it off too.

 CL> I was concerned about DS9 for a while...and really leary about Worf
 CL> showing up there. But it seems to shaping up quite nicely. And Worf is
 CL> finding a friend in Dax...it's interesing how quickly he replaced
 CL> Deanna Troy, isn't it?

Worf's relationship with Odo is somewhat interesting, in fact,
it's beginning to look a little like Odo's relationship with
Quark.

Last month, I got the chance to see Terry Farrel at a
convention.  She's a very entertaining speaker.  Seeing her
handle a 10 foot albino python was also interesting.

 JH> The ghosts of Battlestar Galactica and Space 1999 still haunt me
 JH> when I see Voyager.

 CL> I really like Battlestar Galactica...but then I was a teenage with a
 CL> HUGE crush on Dirk Benedict, too...As for Space 1999, I couldn't stand
 CL> it!
 CL> Channon

I enjoyed Galactica's first few episodes, but it did later go
down hill for me.  It's spinoff, Galactica 1980, was a major
disappointment for me.  Space:1999 during its first season had
some good stories, but the second season(which included Fred
Frieberger, the producer of Star Trek's last season, and the
introduction of a shapeshifting alien) really sucked the sewage.
I still have my 2.5 foot long Eagle One playset around here
somewhere.  I also have a toy Cylon Raider spaceship, one of the
ones that fires missiles, that were pulled from the market after
a child suffered a choking accident.

To be young again.....




... What can you do at 3 AM?   Psssttt - got a modem??
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(1:3800/25)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 240 of 284
 From : Jon Helis                           1:3800/25       .pä 14 .åâ 96 18:27
 To   : Shawn Snyder
 Subj : Re: "Q" on VOYAGER
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 -=> Quoting Shawn Snyder to Robert Lidgren <=-

 SS> @MSGID: 1:2601/507.0 3128aa40
 SS> Rob, I heard that there is a "Q" planning to attempt suicide
 SS> or something like that.  Jonothan Frakes is suposed to be in it, also.

Yes that's exactly what happens.  Frakes had a brief appearance
in it too.  I won't give anything else away, since it hasn't
aired nationwide yet.






... Have you crashed your Windows today?
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(1:3800/25)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 241 of 284
 From : Jon Helis                           1:3800/25       .pä 14 .åâ 96 18:35
 To   : Robert Lidgren
 Subj : Re: CLARIFICATION
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 -=> Quoting Robert Lidgren to Nicolai Shapero <=-

 RL> I heard a rumour SOMEWHERE that "Sliders" was returning March 1st.  Is
 RL> there any truth to this?

Yes it is returning with new episodes.  I saw a promo during
Space:Above and Beyond over the weeekend.

Celebrate, it's coming back.



... Reality is for people that are out of touch with FANDOM.
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

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(1:3800/25)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 242 of 284
 From : Jon Helis                           1:3800/25       .pä 14 .åâ 96 18:37
 To   : Barton Paul Levenson
 Subj : Re: Cybersex
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 -=> Quoting Barton Paul Levenson to Anders Danebo <=-

 BPL> @MSGID: 1:129/26.0 3125bb20
 BPL> @REPLY: 2:201/190.0 311ea93a
 BPL> I think I know what you're trying to say, but I think you're mistaken
 BPL> if you say sex can't be discussed seriously, under SF or otherwise.
 BPL> Some interesting comments on sex and human sexuality have come out of
 BPL> science fiction -- though usually books and not TV/movies.  Cf LeGuin's
 BPL> "The Left Hand of Darkness" or Philip Jose Farmer's "The Loverbirds"
 BPL> (very daring when it first came out).  Or anything by Heinlein after he
 BPL> became obsessed with sex.

The 1973 Michael Crichton film "Westworld" dealt with this issue
in a very interesting way.

Anyone who's seen it care to discuss it?



... Non-Trekkies of the world-- GET A FUTURE!!
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(1:3800/25)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 243 of 284
 From : Jon Helis                           1:3800/25       .pä 14 .åâ 96 19:13
 To   : Dean Sweatman
 Subj : Re: What next?
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 -=> Quoting Dean Sweatman to Jon Helis (#6) <=-

 DS> @MSGID: 1:396/40 51142b5c
 DS> @TID: InterEcho 1.12 6E010867
 DS> * Crossposted from: L_FIAWOL

 -=> Quoting #6 to Dean Sweatman <=-

 #6> What do you think of this Dean?  I guess Trekkies go for
 #6> anything!

 KA> * Originally By: Mark Holtz
 KA> * Originally To: All
 KA> * Originally Re: Star Trek:The Experience
 KA> * Original Area: TREK_VOYAGER
 KA> * Forwarded by : Blue Wave v2.12

 KA> @SUBJECT:Star Trek:The Experience groundbreaking                     N
 KA> #PID: BWTG 3.11 [Reg]
 KA> @MSGID: 1:203/1701.0 311e75e0
 KA> Hey, Larry, looks like you can plan your vacation next year in Vegas!
 KA> I sure  would love to go!

 KA> == Forwarded Message Follows =========================================

 KA> * Originally By: snoop@vegas.infi.net
 KA> * Originally To: All
 KA> * Originally Re: Star Trek:The Experience groundbreaking
 KA> * Original Date: 07 Feb 96  17:02:22
 KA> * Original Area: Star Trek News & Info (Usenet)
 KA> * Forwarded by : Blue Wave/DOS v2.21

 KA> The source for the article comes from the January 25, 1996 Las Vegas
 KA> Review Journal, Page 1A and 2A.  My summary Follows:

 KA> Hi there everyone!

 KA> Living in Las Vegas we get some nice perks:  We can lose all our money
 KA> at the tables, good cheap food and soon to come, Star Trek:The
 KA> Experience!

 KA> Recently on January 24th top executives from Hilton Hotels as well as
 KA> Paramount Parks held the official groundbreaking ceremony for this
 KA> fantastic sounding attraction.

 KA> Star Trek:The Experience will be many things.  It's 65,000 quare feet
 KA> will contain such goodies as a mock up version of the bridge of the
 KA> starship Enterprise, a 22 minute long shuttlecraft simulator ride, a
 KA> dining and retail area, and a 22,000 square foot casino (this is after
 KA> all Las Vegas). The casino area (Spacequest Casino) will feature
 KA> windows high above the floor that will simulate the illusion of
 KA> orbiting the earth on a space station.

 KA> The ceremony was itself rather impressive, they had a simulated
 KA> wormhole implosion, and a large fireworks display, that showed itself
 KA> in the form of the Star Trek logo with the words Star Trek:The
 KA> Experience under that.
 KA> Also attending the ceremony were Trek stars, Jonathan Frakes, Gates
 KA> McFadden, and Armin Shimerman.  Star Trek:The Experience is slated to
 KA> open in the spring of 1997.

 KA> If you have any more questions about this project, please feel free to
 KA> E-Mail me at:
 KA> Snoop@vegas.infi.net and I'll try to answer them for you.  For now
 KA> though it looks like it's time to get a job application!  :)

 KA> Evan J. Malik

 KA> End of article.

 KA> Evan
 DS>
 DS> Are you Sure that you REALLY WANT TO KNOW? :^)

 DS> I think that there has come into being a a blend of fandom and the
 DS> frenges that are willing to spend their money on anything that suits
 DS> their fancy and that the business world is taking every oppertunity
 DS> that they can of sucking up everything that the fen are willing to part
 DS> with.  This casino is just the top of the heap with autographed photos
 DS> and Special packaged items (Get Generations now in a Foil stamped
 DS> limited collectors box) being offered through the mail, at cons/shows,
 DS> magazines and TV.  The only thing that is going to stop these dirty
 DS> dealers from preying upon Fandom and the frenge is for us to say
 DS> enough is enough and stop spending our money so foolishly.

 DS> We will be seeing resturants soon with the waiters dressed as super
 DS> heroes for the comics inclined and I am sure that it won't be long till
 DS> we find a 10 forward in every major city.

 DS> Nuff said

My opinion, like yours, is that this stuff wouldn't go on if
there weren't alot of people who had the money to spend on it
around.

Back when I had cable, I saw one of those Trek shows on QVC, and
one caller, who was buying another autographed plaque, boasted
of having "6 cast member plaques, and the one with the whole
cast."  At $50-$80 apiece, and $500 for the whole cast, someone
spent $1000 on those things.

Amongst other crazy merchandise I've seen them sell is a limited
edition autographed Star Trek telephone calling card!  I've seen
similar cards depicting comic book heroes.

Unfortunately, many fans buy this stuff because they think they
are showing what big fans they are.  To me, all this shows is
that you have access to money, or a high line of credit on your
VISA, not that you are fan.

Being able to see Gary Graham, Eric Pierpoint, and Michael
O'Hare in person at Cons like we did, being able to shake
hands with Jon Pertwee, and getting their autographs in person,
is of more value to me than anything that can be bought off of
QVC.

Being around and talking with people who really enjoy SF for
what it is, is what fandom is all about.

FIAWOL

p.s I'm gonna post your message back to the Voyager echo, and if
I get any good responses, I'll send them back to you.

Number Six

... There Is No Intelligent Life Here! They Are Using Windows
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

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(1:3800/25)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 244 of 284
 From : Debbie Bickford                     1:203/996       .òp 20 .åâ 96 18:32
 To   : Frank Glover
 Subj : Re: Star Trek Comics
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12  91-0092

->
-> DJ>  For one week, as part of the crossover, 12 issues will be printe
-> DJ>  under
-> DJ>  the "Amalgam" imprint.  It will include "Bruce Wayne, Agent of
-> DJ>  Shield",
-> DJ>  "Super-Soldier", "Spider-Boy", "JLX", and "Doctor Strangefate",
-> DJ>  with other concepts hybridised between the two companies.
->
-> Not the one I had in mind. What I read of involved the heroes as we
-> know them, with several different one-on-one encounters, and definite
-> winners and losers.
->

As you've probably heard by now, it's the same one.  For one week of the
DC/Marvel, Marvel/DC crossover, there will be an amalgamated universe,
which will include the above characters, for 12 issues in all.  It will
be followed by the 4th issues of the limited series, which is supposed
to 'unzip' the universes again.

--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12
 * Origin: Xanth-Wildcat 4.12 Sac CA 916-364-1826 28800 V34  (1:203/996.0)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 245 of 284
 From : Kim Wheat                           1:271/285       .îí 19 .åâ 96 16:03
 To   : Kevin Ahearn
 Subj : Star Trek & Q
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
---<<*<<< Kevin dazzled Buc Wheat with these words of wisdom!! >>>**>>----

 KW>  Even I might watch this episode on Monday. I've never liked Q, myself.
 KW>  Think the writers made a big mistake with this character. Never, ever
 KW>  have a 'Superman' type character on the show!!! The only way to have
 KW>  interesting plots that don't repeat themselves endlessly is to remove
 KW>  his powers..and then he's no longer Q! And if he keeps his powers,
 KW>  then it's just a rehashed story! Stupid move to have come up with this
 KW>  guy!

 KA> Your comments remind me of an old saying about fantasy stories:  "If
 KA> anything is possible, nothing is interesting.

 Exactly, Kevin! Thanks! :>

 KW>  If Q appears on V'ger...then why isn't the show finished then?? He
 KW>  simply pops them back to Fed space and everyone goes home. This won't
 KW>  happen, of course....but I bet you the reasons this doesn't take place
 KW>  won't be satisfactory. Therefore, once again, it'll prove that this
 KW>  character just doesn't work as a viable plot device.

 KA> Actually, there is a real good reason for this.  The scent which would
 KA> explain it would proceed something like this:
 KA> Janeway:  "Q, will you send us back to Federation space?"
 KA> Q:  "No."
 KA> Janeway:  "Why not?"
 KA> Q:  "I don't feel like it.  See ya."

 Probably....I'll try to sit down tonite at 8:00pm with an open mind.
 But gotta tell....as much as I don't like the character of Q....
 well, I hate the character of Riker much more! <g>

 Now Beverly....then we're talking!!! :)

 Kim :)


--- GEcho 1.00
 * Origin: From Trekkies & from B5ers who hate Trek save us! (1:271/285.0)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 246 of 284
 From : Dean Sweatman                       1:396/40        .òp 20 .åâ 96 21:24
 To   : All
 Subj : Gen - X movie
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: InterEcho 1.12 6E010867
 * Crossposted from: L_FIAWOL

My taste in the super-hero genre has not been in Marvel's corner for some years
but the Generation - X movie was not the total disaster that reading some of the
reviews had led me to expect.

By no means was this a Batman or Superman epic but it did translate into a live
action framework the idea that The White Witch, Havoc, and various other marvel
characters could be presented with out completely blowing it.  I have not read
any of the Generation - X stories so I did not go into the movie with many
pre-concived ideas as to what the characters should look like (with the
exception of JL) and was pleased with the  translation to the screen.  Over all
a passable effort and probably as good as we have seen from Marvel Entertainment
in some time.

Fiawol


... Dean Sweatman's Continuing and Relentless quest toward Fuggheadedness

___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20 [NR]


--- InterEcho 1.12
 * Origin: REUNION BBS, Harahan, La., USA (504) 738-5162 Try God (1:396/40)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 247 of 284
 From : Dean Sweatman                       1:396/40        .pä 21 .åâ 96 00:20
 To   : Jon Helis
 Subj : message traffic
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: InterEcho 1.12 6E010867
Ok, Your last traffic hit Reunion on the 13th.  at that time I got some 12
messages dated between the January 29th and Feb 3rd.

12 messages arrived tonight
1 dated 2/03
2 dated 2/04
9 dated 2/14

These messages are the first that I have seen since the previous batch that
arrived on the 13th.  I find it a tad odd that both slugs of traffic are an even
Dozen almost as if your sysop has a minimum size packet to be reached before the
packet is sent on to his hub.  I will keep an eye on this and let you know what
I see in the future.  Best send you replied via net-mail and postings if you
want timely transfer of traffic.

OTC
what did you think of the Q/Voyager ep?

Looks like Q will be up to some of his old tricks and I thought that the "Q"uinn
might have been interesting as a crewman but we will never know now.  Himlock
(ms) makes sencebut I will bet that there were a lot of viewers that had that go
right over their heads.

... Dean Sweatman's Continuing and Relentless quest toward Fuggheadedness

___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20 [NR]


--- InterEcho 1.12
 * Origin: REUNION BBS, Harahan, La., USA (504) 738-5162 Try God (1:396/40)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 248 of 284
 From : Timothy H. Willis                   1:306/32        .îí 19 .åâ 96 14:43
 To   : Phill Ash
 Subj : Re: Alien threats?
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
* Oh? Phill Ash & Timothy H. Willis are havin' coffee 'n laywers at dawn? *

 THW> Anyway...
 THW> Have you by any chance read Harry Turtledove's "World War:" Saga?

    -----snip-----

 THW> Mostly I just lurk here, but I couldn't pass this one up.  I really
 THW> do recomment the books... the first one is titled "World War: In the
 THW> Balance". Seeya around

 PA> GREAT SERIES!!!
 PA> Turtledove is a genius... I've got a friend who, though he
 PA> hates SF in any form, is a WWII buff and is goading me to let
 PA> him borrow "Tilting the Balance"!

    I just picked that one up... loved the cover art. <chuckle>
I started buying them when Ballantine (DelRey) decided they didn't
want to buy my alternate WW-2 trilogy... though they were kind of
interested in it for a while.  I wish I'd come up with the idea.

 PA> The one thing that really interests me about the series is
 PA> that, aside from the spacecraft and hydrogen-based propulsion
 PA> systems, The Race is not that far ahead of "current-day"
 PA> technology.  In that light, the books become a stage for an
 PA> "are we any better today than we were 50 years ago" comparison.
 PA> Any thoughts?

    I *loved* it when The Race popped off their nukes in the
upper atmosphere to fry communications and such... and the vacuum
tube tech of the era just shrugged it off. <snicker>  The books are
pretty interesting in how the tech levels "even out" because The
Race is fighting a "come as you are" sort of war.  It also shows
how "lower tech" doesn't necessarily equate with "inferior tech".
    I'm something of an alternate history SF buff, having
gotten well and thoroughly hooked by H. Beam Piper's "Lord Kalvan
of Otherwhen".  Read "The Man in the High Castle" shortly after
I found "Kalvan", and have been searching out alt-hist ever since.
    Speaking of which; have you read "Guns of the South"?
    Timothy & a buncha felines...



... "Bummer" said Pooh when Tigger dropped the joint in the honey jar.
--- FMail/386 1.0g
 * Origin: The Forum BBS-Ft Collins,CO *NODE @* (970)225-2627 (1:306/32)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 249 of 284
 From : Ecarey                              1:101/230       .îí 19 .åâ 96 14:07
 To   : Darre Luallen
 Subj : STAR TREK
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
DL> Actually, you highlight on a potential argument that I missed.  (Bad me.
DL> Bad me.  Sit.  Stay.)  What I was referring to was something I think that
DL> he can easily see: child-bearing.  I personally wish I had thought of the
DL> point which you brought up.  Hum... Oh well.  You do have a good point.
DL> I don't know if you saw my post on his close-mindedness, but I think all
DL> arguments are wasted at this point.  You know, SF/F stories are littered
DL> with people like this.  (Swerve... Crash... Are we back on topic yet? 8) )
DL> Usually, they get eaten by the alien beastie or de-selected by the heroes/
DL> villians.

And it's such fun to watch.:)

 * OLX 2.1 TD * I'm in shape ... round's a shape isn't it?

--- FLAME v1.0
 * Origin: Withouta Net - Drop In Anytime! - 617/846-5416 (1:101/230)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 250 of 284
 From : ROBERT LIDGREN                      1:134/10        .îí 19 .åâ 96 23:40
 To   : ANDERS DANEBO
 Subj : "Q" ON VOYAGER
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
-> A little input and a personal opinion..I can't believe they didn't put Q in
-> with the GENERATIONS gang...Big mistake(good movie but it should have had Q
-> in it...)

I think I heard Q will be in the next STTNG movie.  Have you or anyone else
heard such a rumour.  I think the filminf ogf the new movie should be underway
some time this year.  I'll have to do some exploring on the Web to learn more.
--- PCBoard 15.2
 * Origin: 32 lines 40 Gig BBS, Realtime InterNet SLIP (403)299-9900 (1:134/10)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 251 of 284
 From : ROBERT LIDGREN                      1:134/10        .îí 19 .åâ 96 23:41
 To   : KAY SHAPERO
 Subj : FILK MODERATOR
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
-> RL>missed the latest directive.  Waht caused Kay to make her RL>decision?
-> What
-> I'm not the moderator.  Nicolai is.  I'm moderator of FILK - if you're
-> interested in sf folksongs, come on over some time!

THANKS FOR THE REMINDER.  I've already sent along my apologies to Nicolai.

What's the name of the FILK node?  I certainly will drop in.
--- PCBoard 15.2
 * Origin: 32 lines 40 Gig BBS, Realtime InterNet SLIP (403)299-9900 (1:134/10)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 252 of 284
 From : ROBERT LIDGREN                      1:134/10        .îí 19 .åâ 96 23:50
 To   : KIM KELLEY
 Subj : X-FILES
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
-> Did either of you see the 2-9 episode that is to be continued?  This one has
-> truly kept me on the edge of my seat wondering exactly "what" is inhabiting
-> all these people.  With the black "roling" eyes, the mystery is even more
-> powerful, because that's all that is evident until "it" explodes into
-> radiation.  It appears, to me, that "it" is "getting back" at someone.

I've now seen the 2nd part of the two-parter.  They had to work fast and
furious to try and tie up so mnay of the threads.  It always angers me when
Scully and Mulder are whisked off at the last minute when they get too "close"
to something.  Krycek ends off the episode neatly locked up in the radiation
chamber - somehow I think it's not the last we see of him.

The more I see of Cancer Man the more I hate that character.  He's just too
damn pompous!  Doesn't ANYTHING intimidate him or get his goat?  Even when he
gets "in dutch" with his superiors it is never anything which seems to make him
blink.  I guess that's part of the reason he is such an effective "foil" up
against Scully and Mulder.  I was pleased, however, that Scully and Mulder were
much more pleasant - even caring toward each other in this two-parter.  I was
wondering where things were going a few episodes back.  It seemed like the big
"diaspora" in the relationship at that time.

I notice that in this recetn episode we were getting "voice overs" for Scully
now too.  Some people don't like them but I do.  It's a technique used in
literature all the time - showing the inner thoughts of a character.  So long
as it's not over-used the technique has some benefits.

Cheers,

-Rob

======================================================================
| Robert Lidgren \\\|/// * THE INNER SANCTUM | * The Old Viking      |
|                ( o o ) * Writer, Teacher   | * Seeker of the Truth |
| =========o00o====(_)====o00o=======================================|
| e-mail me at------------> robert.lidgren@bbs.logicnet.com          |
| My Personal Web Site----> http://www.logicnet.com/robert.lidgren   |
======================================================================
--- PCBoard 15.2
 * Origin: 32 lines 40 Gig BBS, Realtime InterNet SLIP (403)299-9900 (1:134/10)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 253 of 284
 From : ROBERT LIDGREN                      1:134/10        .îí 19 .åâ 96 23:58
 To   : ALL
 Subj : TERAFORMING
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Here's a question for readers of SF out there.  Have you read any good books or
short stories containing the process of TERRAFORMING?  The process was used in
a Star Trek movie but I want to explore the idea further in fiction.
TERRAFORMING is the process of turning an unihabitable planet into one with the
environmentet suitable for human habitation without the need for life-support,
self-contained air-supply, protective suits, etc.

I hope someone has come across material dealing with this subject.

A reply is requested here or directly to me at my address below:

======================================================================
| Robert Lidgren \\\|/// * THE INNER SANCTUM | * The Old Viking      |
|                ( o o ) * Writer, Teacher   | * Seeker of the Truth |
| =========o00o====(_)====o00o=======================================|
| e-mail me at------------> robert.lidgren@bbs.logicnet.com          |
| My Personal Web Site----> http://www.logicnet.com/robert.lidgren   |
======================================================================
--- PCBoard 15.2
 * Origin: 32 lines 40 Gig BBS, Realtime InterNet SLIP (403)299-9900 (1:134/10)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 254 of 284
 From : Frank Glover                        1:2613/477      .pä 21 .åâ 96 22:24
 To   : Darre LuAllen
 Subj : Bs!!
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

DL>   factors for invasion.  Suppose an alien race decides to "protect us"
DL>  from
DL>   a more aggressive race.  Wouldn't a sudden appearance of an alien
DL>  force
DL>   wanting to occupy the Earth be an considered an invasion?

   At least until the *real* bad guys showed up, yes. (And *if* real baddies
showed up. It could be a scam. Humans already know what a `protection' racket
is....)

   Frank


--- QuickBBS 2.80 GoldBase (Zeta-1)
 * Origin: The Matrix Data Bank BBS, Rochester, Ny (1:2613/477)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 255 of 284
 From : Judy Hayes                          1:154/40        .òp 20 .åâ 96 21:11
 To   : Kay Shapero
 Subj : Re: Help
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

-> "Who me? I'm just plain & simple." said Kay.

 KS> @MSGID: 1:102/524 31290f09
 KS> On <Feb 17 15:58>, Judy Hayes (1:154/40) wrote to JOHN ROSS:

 JR> Kay ,I heard a song at a con once called ,Banned From Argo,but have
 JR> been unable to find a local source.Do you perchance have the lyrics?or
 JR> if not where I could get them.


 JH>"Banned from Argos, every one.
 JH>  Banned from Argos, just for having a little fun."

 JH>That one?

 KS> "Argo", not "Argos", but that's the only one I know.  I netmailed him
 KS> a copy recently - want to see the one I have and compare notes?

I'm sure you're right...I don't know why I said Argos.

I don't have a copy handy....just have it on tape somewhere.  However, I
was going to contact a friend who has simply oodles of Filk books to get
it.  After I do I'll get back to you.  <g>

      --Quoshara



... "It is only to the happy that tears are a luxury." - THOMAS MOORE
---
 * Origin: Anonymous BBS -=- Non plus Ultra -=- 414-251-2580 (1:154/40)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 256 of 284
 From : James Walton                        1:129/260       .pä 21 .åâ 96 13:37
 To   : Mark Jones
 Subj : Re: Star Trek
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 > How many FEMALE serial killers can you name?  How many times has
 > a WOMAN climbed into a bell tower and started shooting passers-by?

This is entirely off topic here.  But to answer your question, both have
happened many times in US history.  The vast difference is that a lot of crimes
committed by females are/were hushed up.  Very recently a woman in Florida posed
as a prostitute to kill men and rob them. I think she got 6 before she was
caught.
And have you ever heard that song by the BoomTown Rats called "I don't like
Mondays?"  It is based on a true story.  A 15 year old girl took her father's
rifle to school and killed several people  because "Mondays are boring."

Please do NOT answer me in this echo.



--- Opus-CBCS 1.73a
 * Origin: ConFluence '96:  Return to Mars! (1:129/260.0)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 257 of 284
 From : Gerry Normandeau                    1:163/430       .pä 21 .åâ 96 03:36
 To   : Pavel Viaznikov
 Subj : The Twelve Monkies
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On 02-18-96  02:09 Pavel Viaznikov sent Gerry Normandeau to the gallows pole
because of The Twelve Monkies!

 PV> - As far as I know, that was "Runway" (meaning the takeoff strip) by
 PV> Crys Marker, dated 1962. Sorry, I am not very sure of the original name
 PV> since I saw the movie several years ago and in Russian (in "Illusion",
 PV> the Moscow old movies
 PV> theatre. I know how it was called by the synchro-translator - and that
 PV> was the "Takeoff strip" (the movie begins and ends on the airfield),
 PV> but I am not sure of the original name of the film). I still remember
 PV> those stills: the death of Paris, with evaporating, still by still,
 PV> Tour d'Effel; and  that future where we
 PV> only can see faces covered with big spectacles or masks, and very
 PV> interesting light effects.
 PV> Did this help?
 PV> Yours, Pavel

I don't know if my message to the sysop has reached you yet, but I
have found what I was looking for. The name of the movie is "La Jette"
The Jetty. Have you seen the Twelve Monkies yet? When you watch it,
even though the reason for the worlds destruction has changed, the basic
plot of the story is almost identical. Terri Gillium, in my opinion,
is a master genius of visual filmmaking. Let me know what you think! :)

Gerry.Normandeau@Offsprng.Takeone.co <<>> Royal Hangman To His Majesty
|
                                          King Bruno The Questionable




... Where am I going?  And, WHY AM I IN THIS HANDBASKET?????
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

--- Maximus 2.01wb
 * Origin: Watership Down BBS, Kanata , ON (1:163/430)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 258 of 284
 From : Owen E. Oulton                      1:243/45        .îí 19 .åâ 96 14:00
 To   : Bill Clements
 Subj : EDUCATION
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 BPL> My degree is University of Pittsburgh 1983.

 BC> The date of your degree tells me that you are , in all
 BC> probability, the child of baby-boom parents,

Precocious Boomers, indeed.  With a degree date of 1983, it is likely that BPL
was born about 1961 (assuming a 4-year degree begun immediately after high
school completion).  The Baby Boom ran from 1947 through about 1960.  If BPL's
parents were Boomers, they were, at most 14 years old at the time of his birth.
Statistically speaking, a much larger percentage than normal of Boomers put off
having children until well into their thirties.  The so-called Generation-X
(named, paradoxically, after a Punk band full of Bay Boomers) are not, for the
most part, the children of Boomers, but rather their younger siblings.

CFN, O

--- Maximus 2.01wb
 * Origin: Pandora's Box, Ottawa, Ont. 613-829-1209 (1:243/45)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 259 of 284
 From : Frank Swarbrick                     1:104/825       .òp 20 .åâ 96 23:31
 To   : Anders Danebo
 Subj : Hello !
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12  92-0022
On 02-17-96  20:54 my Very Good Friend Anders Danebo said:

 -=> Quoting Jeroen Jacobs to All <=-

 JJ> And these are my favorite SF-series:

 JJ> - the X files.
 JJ> - Star Trek : Deep Space 9
 JJ> - Star Trek : The Next Generation
 JJ> - Star Trek : Voyager
 JJ> - The Outer Limits

 AD> You must be my twin or my twin soul...Exactly my faves..

What, no Babylon 5?

        Frank

... No one can hear when you're Screaming in Digital!
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12
 * Origin: The Bailey Information Exchange BBS, 28.8k v.fc  (1:104/825.0)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 260 of 284
 From : Frank Swarbrick                     1:104/825       .òp 20 .åâ 96 23:34
 To   : Robert Lidgren
 Subj : CLARIFICATION
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12  92-0022
On 02-18-96  00:41 my Very Good Friend Robert Lidgren said:

 RL> I heard a rumour SOMEWHERE that "Sliders" was returning March 1st.  Is
 RL> there any truth to this?

Yes indeed.  Not sure on the date.  The season finale of Strange Luck
is this week, Feb 23, so March 1 being the next Friday that sounds
reasonable to me.  Personally, I wish they would have brought back
VR.5 instead, but I liked Sliders well enough so I guess that's
alright...

        Frank

... No one can hear when you're Screaming in Digital!
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12
 * Origin: The Bailey Information Exchange BBS, 28.8k v.fc  (1:104/825.0)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 261 of 284
 From : Nicolai Shapero                     1:102/524       .pä 21 .åâ 96 03:47
 To   : Darre LuAllen
 Subj : Re: Star Trek
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Feb 19 11:21>, Darre LuAllen (1:3637/1) wrote to Christian Raven:

 DL> Let me begin by letting you know how much of an arrogant fool
 DL>you truly are.

AHEM!  There is a difference between declaring that an idea is stupid and
declaring that the proponent of an idea is stupid.  The former is acceptable on
this conference, the latter is not.

Please restrict yourself to attacks on the idea, NOT on the person.

-- Nicolai Shapero, Moderator of the SFFAN echo

--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 262 of 284
 From : Nicolai Shapero                     1:102/524       .pä 21 .åâ 96 03:51
 To   : Pavel Viaznikov
 Subj : X-FILES
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Feb 18 15:57>, Pavel Viaznikov (2:5020/185.9) wrote to Tommy Kellerman:

 PV>Ïpèâåòñòâóþ, Tommy!

Fix your quoting mechanism -- the salutation line comes across as gibberish.

-- Nicolai Shapero, Moderator of the SFFAN echo

--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 263 of 284
 From : Kay Shapero                         1:102/524       .pä 21 .åâ 96 08:06
 To   : Tommy Kellerman
 Subj : Ufo
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Feb 16 21:20>, Tommy Kellerman (2:205/356) wrote to Kay Shapero:

 KS> Hmm... sounds to me like a bolide seen head on.  This is a big enough
 KS> meteorite to make a spectacular display on the way in, shedding bits and
 KS> lighting up the sky.

 TK>Hmm. I'm sorry, I don't know what a bolide is. Maybe you could
 TK>enlighten me?

A big meteorite, as defined in the rest of the paragraph.  However, if the
doohicky was actually up there for an hour (objective, not subjective), it
couldn't have been a bolide.

--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 264 of 284
 From : Kay Shapero                         1:102/524       .pä 21 .åâ 96 18:29
 To   : Darre LuAllen
 Subj : The Enchanted Forest Chronicles
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Feb 19 12:01>, Darre LuAllen (1:3637/1) wrote to Kay Shapero:

 KS> And speaking of irritating life forms, I'm most of the way
 KS> through my reread of Patricia Wrede's Enchanted Forest
 KS> books now that they're all collected in one place, and I
 KS> find myself noticing how much the wizards remind me of
 KS> certain politicians, and wondering what effect a carefully
 KS> applied bucket of soapy water with lemon would have on
 KS> same.  :->
 DL>
 DL> How about a recommendation on these?

OK, I recommend them.  Highly.  :->  The first one in the order they were
written is TALKING TO DRAGONS; the next three all take place before it and are,
in order (written and chronological) DEALING WITH DRAGONS, SEARCHING FOR DRAGONS
and CALLING ON DRAGONS.  If you can, get the SF Book Club compliation THE
ENCHANTED FOREST CHRONICLES; these can be hard to track donw individually.
Dealing, Searching and Calling should be read in that order; Talking can be read
either first or last and, in fact, works just fine all by itself.

If you look for them individually, be sure to check the YA section which is
where they generally turn up.  The author has taken a lot of standard fairy tale
themes and situations and turned them into a delightfully coherant whole, and
given things a half twist in the process.  (For example, Dealing involves a
princess who gets sufficiently fed up with being expected to spend her time on
dancing and ettiquette instead of doing interesting things, and runs off to
become a dragon's princess; with interesting results).

The soapy water with lemon comment is based on something that is discovered in
"Dealing" which is something of a spoiler, if not much of one.  If you don't
care, check below.


















It melts wizards. Most of whom deserve it. It's not permanent, alas, but at
least it gets them out of one's hair for a few days.

--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 265 of 284
 From : Bill Clements                       1:18/230        .pä 21 .åâ 96 20:19
 To   : Barton Paul Levenson
 Subj : EDUCATION
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
From the desk of a cynical old man...

On (17 Feb 96) BARTON PAUL LEVENSON wrote to BILL CLEMENTS...

 BP> Sorry, pal, but I'm not functionally illiterate. I can read
 BP> and write and do well at tests; I type 60 wpm. You can't
 BP> use your own definitions for words or phrases, it just
 BP> confuses everyone. "Functionally illiterate" has a formal
 BP> definition which I don't meet.

Actually, most of the citizenry of these United States is, by
19th century standards, not functionally illiterate but simply
uneducated. Since you claim literacy you might trouble yourself
to read 'The Happy Days Ahead" in 'Expanded Universe'
(C)opyright 1980 by Robert A. Heinlein. My observations on 'Span
of time - the Decline of Education', as my father was born in
rural Illinois in 1882, are much the same as Heinlein's.

This post started out as a NastyGram however your current crop
of posts, the above excepted as I do understand the formal
definition of functional illiteracy and believe that it
describes most of the product of the public schools for the last
30 years, has caused me to grant you the status of honored
opponent. Your views are a bit liberal for my taste. Still we
can agree to disagree, stop wasting bandwidth on flames, and get
on with the discussion.Chalk up my vitriol to the fact that I'm
a old man, living on a fixed income, and sick and tired of
reading this TV drivel.


--RWC

--- LazarusTags:  / QWK

--- FLAME v1.1
 * Origin: ANCESTRY TBBS Shadows of forgotten ancestors 941-382-9061 (1:18/230)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 266 of 284
 From : Bill Clements                       1:18/230        .pä 21 .åâ 96 20:19
 To   : All
 Subj : EXIT
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
From the desk of a cynical old man...

fan (fan) n. (Slang)  a devoted admirer  [abbrev. of fanatic].

fa-nat-ic (fa-nat'-ik) n.  a person inspired with excessive and
 bigoted enthusiasm, esp. a religious zealot; devotee; a. over-
 enthusiastic; immoderatly zealous.  -al  a.  -ally  adv.
 fanaticism n. violent enthusiasm [L. fanum, a temple].

                                                       --Webster

I find that I really don't belong in this echo as I am simply a
reader and do not qualify as a fan. Now that I know that the SF
Lit Echo exists, thanks KIm, I will, if I can get my local SYSOP
to put it up, move there. Then I will disappear from here, in a
puff of dirty dark smoke, never to be seen again.

--RWC

--- LazarusTags:  / QWK

--- FLAME v1.1
 * Origin: ANCESTRY TBBS Shadows of forgotten ancestors 941-382-9061 (1:18/230)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 267 of 284
 From : JOHN ROSS                           1:116/1977      .åò 22 .åâ 96 09:33
 To   : JUDY HAYES
 Subj : Re: Help
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.SPTH: FidoNet#1:116/1977 :369/110
Thanks ,Kay said that she sent me one and I'll see if it shows up in the
next week or so.Thanks again

---
 þ SLMR 2.1a þ This tagline is umop apisdn

--- AdeptXBBS v1.06(Registered)
 * Origin: AdeptXBBS (1:116/1977)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 268 of 284
 From : Anders Danebo                       2:201/190       .pä 21 .åâ 96 17:21
 To   : Mark Jones
 Subj : Cybersex
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

-=> Quoting Mark Jones to Anders Danebo <=-

 MJ> On (11 Feb 96) Anders Danebo wrote to Bianca Wesslak...

 MJ> The conference is meant for discussion of all facets of SF (unless
 MJ> they're ruled off-topic by Nicolai), including cybersex.
 MJ> One can discuss sex without being a lonely boy, you know.  The
 MJ> possibility of virtual sex is a perfectly plausible idea, and one that
 MJ> *does* have a connection to SF.  The film BRAINSTORM (from the 70's),
 MJ> for instance, played with the notion.
 MJ> Discussing it is only boring if you're not interested in how it
 MJ> might evolve and what the implications of such technology might be.

Sci Fi and Sex hasn't got anything incommon..All that is changed is that
the technology and imagination has been applied to the sex theme..It's
still the same old sex and it's not very interestning..Why not simply
create a cybersex conference and talk about it there..Sci Fi and sex doesn't
belong together...My opinion but i belive it to be a sound one...





--- GEcho 1.00
 * Origin: =:Detroit Rock City:= Stockholm, Sweden  +46-8-870055 (2:201/190)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 269 of 284
 From : Darre LuAllen                       1:3637/1        .ÿò 23 .åâ 96 09:04
 To   : Nicolai Shapero
 Subj : Re: Star Trek
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 On 02-21-96 Nicolai Shapero wrote to Darre LuAllen...

 DL> Let me begin by letting you know how much of an arrogant fool
 DL> you truly are.

 NS> AHEM!  There is a difference between declaring that an idea
 NS> is stupid and declaring that the proponent of an idea is
 NS> stupid.  The former is acceptable on this conference, the
 NS> latter is not.
 NS>
 NS> Please restrict yourself to attacks on the idea, NOT on the person.

 Nicolai,
      I'm sorry.  Truthfully, he ticked me off.  I responded.  I suppose
 I should have cooled off before responding.  I future, I will.  When I
 typed the above, I was hoping to get his attention.  I stepped over the
 line on this one.  For that, I'm sorry.  I promise to be good from now on.

                                               At your Service,
                                               Darre LuAllen

___
 * OFFLINE 1.56 * That's an amazing horse Brisco. --He's not that amazing.  Took
him two tries.

--- Maximus/2 3.01
 * Origin: Cumberland BBS -TN- V34 (1:3637/1)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 270 of 284
 From : Darre LuAllen                       1:3637/1        .ÿò 23 .åâ 96 09:15
 To   : Kay Shapero
 Subj : The Enchanted Forest Chr
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 On 02-21-96 Kay Shapero wrote to Darre LuAllen...

 KS> And speaking of irritating life forms, I'm most of the way
 KS> through my reread of Patricia Wrede's Enchanted Forest
 KS> books now that they're all collected in one place, and I
 KS> find myself noticing how much the wizards remind me of
 KS> certain politicians, and wondering what effect a carefully
 KS> applied bucket of soapy water with lemon would have on
 KS> same.  :->

 DL> How about a recommendation on these?

 KS> OK, I recommend them.  Highly.  :->  The first one in the order they

 [further comments cut to save my sysop a little cash]


 Thank you, they sound delightful.  I like picking up stories like that
 for several reasons.  First, I really like fanciful stories.  I'm a bit
 of a romantic.  Second, as a writer, I like seeing how everyone else does
 it.  Finally, I'm putting together a library for my children (assuming I
 ever get the chance to have any) before the government decides to take
 all these books from the shelves.

 Oh, and thank you for the spoiler warning.  A read it anyway, as I'm a
 very curious man.  But I do appreciate the consideration.  Yes, I agree
 with the idea of trying it on some politicians.

                                             At your Service,
                                             Darre LuAllen
                                             Recently Warned and Cowed

___
 * OFFLINE 1.56 * How much filk could a filker filk if a filker could filk filk?


--- Maximus/2 3.01
 * Origin: Cumberland BBS -TN- V34 (1:3637/1)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 271 of 284
 From : Dave Smith                          1:109/611       .ÿò 23 .åâ 96 16:39
 To   : **all S<20 +c5 S=32000
 Subj : Science Fiction & Fantasy Books (anyone read?)
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Okay, here it is.  I've read almost all of the Star Trek and Star Wars books
around, and I need to know a few things.  Also, I seem to be one of the only
people to have read the Dragon Knight series.  If anyone else has read them,
I'd like to talk to you.  Later.

Dave Smith (Dragon Knight, Smiley)

.NOTE: IceEdit 1.60 E17688
--- QuickBBS 2.80 GoldBase (Zeta-1)
 * Origin: AD Message BBS/10th Year Online! (703)241-1826 (1:109/611@FIDONET)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 272 of 284
 From : Channon Lang                        1:130/809       .ÿò 23 .åâ 96 04:38
 To   : Jon Helis
 Subj : Re: Star Trek
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE 1.11+
From a dark bottomless pit,Jon Helis screamed up to Channon Lang about
 Star Trek..

 JH> I enjoy watching DS9, but Voyager, sometimes it's good, while at
 JH> other times, outright disappointing.  This inconsistency is
 JH> slowly starting to push me away.  Unless they start coming up
 JH> with good scripts, I may write it off too.

 CL> I was concerned about DS9 for a while...and really leary about Worf
 CL> showing up there. But it seems to shaping up quite nicely. And Worf is
 CL> finding a friend in Dax...it's interesing how quickly he replaced
 CL> Deanna Troy, isn't it?

 JH> Worf's relationship with Odo is somewhat interesting, in fact,
 JH> it's beginning to look a little like Odo's relationship with
 JH> Quark.

 It seems that Odo has that effect on people. Maybe it's one of those Love
 Hate relationships....I think if it came down to the wire Odo and Quark and
 probably even Worf would give everything to save the other.

 JH> Last month, I got the chance to see Terry Farrel at a
 JH> convention.  She's a very entertaining speaker.  Seeing her
 JH> handle a 10 foot albino python was also interesting.

 Bet that was interesting....where did you get to see her?

 JH> The ghosts of Battlestar Galactica and Space 1999 still haunt me
 JH> when I see Voyager.

 CL> I really like Battlestar Galactica...but then I was a teenage with a
 CL> HUGE crush on Dirk Benedict, too...As for Space 1999, I couldn't stand


 JH> I enjoyed Galactica's first few episodes, but it did later go
 JH> down hill for me.  It's spinoff, Galactica 1980, was a major
 JH> disappointment for me.  Space:1999 during its first season had
 JH> some good stories, but the second season(which included Fred
 JH> Frieberger, the producer of Star Trek's last season, and the
 JH> introduction of a shapeshifting alien) really sucked the sewage.
 JH> I still have my 2.5 foot long Eagle One playset around here
 JH> somewhere.  I also have a toy Cylon Raider spaceship, one of the
 JH> ones that fires missiles, that were pulled from the market after
 JH> a child suffered a choking accident.

 I must say, I did like the ships in Galactica. I really thought the cylon
 ships were the epidomy of a "flying saucer".

 JH> To be young again.....

 Speak for yourself!;)

 Channon
... "What is Starbuckin?"
--- MachoEcho 0.5ñ
 * Origin: The State of Confusion * Arlington Tx * 817-274-1920 * (1:130/809)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 273 of 284
 From : Tam Phan                            1:143/362       .ÿò 23 .åâ 96 15:12
 To   : Jaimie Park
 Subj : x-files
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 On 02-15-96 Jaimie Park wrote to All...

 JP> hello, this is jaimie park and i'm calling out to all those x-philes
 JP> across the country.  i'm dying for some stimulating conversation about
 JP> the show with someone who actually knows what they're talking about.
 JP> please contact me.

     Hi.. well, I've been watching the show itself for about a year and
     half now, so I figure I at least know something about the show...
     What do you want to talk about?
---
 * OFFLINE 1.58 * To steal this tagline press <CTL> <ALT> <DEL> now.

 * Origin:  (1:143/362)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 274 of 284
 From : Tam Phan                            1:143/362       .ÿò 23 .åâ 96 15:12
 To   : Brion Lienhart
 Subj : Gen - X movie
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 On 02-22-96 Brion Lienhart wrote to Dean Sweatman...

 BL> Enh, it was ok. That was Colm Meany playing Banshee wasn't it? The
 BL> beard and different hair kind of threw me off. I haven't been paying
 BL> attention to Marvel lately, but how did the Emma Frost and Banshee end
 BL> up running Xavier's school? I know Emma was more or less reformed a
 BL> while ago (New Mutants, I think), but where was Chuck?

     Colm Meany? I don't think it was him... I don't know who it was,
     but I'm pretty sure it wasn't him.
---
 * OFFLINE 1.58 * Tagless messages just look naked somehow...
 * Origin:  (1:143/362)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 275 of 284
 From : Kay Shapero                         1:102/524       .åò 22 .åâ 96 10:51
 To   : ROBERT LIDGREN
 Subj : FILK MODERATOR
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Feb 19 23:41>, ROBERT LIDGREN (1:134/10) wrote to KAY SHAPERO:

 RL>What's the name of the FILK node?  I certainly will drop in.

That's the FILK echo, the tagname is FILK, and it can be picked up off the
backbone in Zone 1.  Hope you can join in the fun!

--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 276 of 284
 From : Kay Shapero                         1:102/524       .åò 22 .åâ 96 10:56
 To   : Judy Hayes
 Subj : Re: Help
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Feb 20 21:11>, Judy Hayes (1:154/40) wrote to Kay Shapero:

 JH>I don't have a copy handy....just have it on tape somewhere.
 JH>However, I was going to contact a friend who has simply oodles of
 JH>Filk books to get it.  After I do I'll get back to you.  <g>

Meanwhile, considering that Leslie has given permission to post her stuff to the
net anyway,  here's a copy for *everybody*!  (Just don't ask HER to sing it...
:->)

BANNED FROM ARGO
by Leslie Fish

When we pulled into Argo Port in need of R. & R.,
The crew set out investigating every joint and bar.
We had high expectations of their hospitality,
But found too late it wasn't geared for spacers such as we.

Chorus
And we're banned from Argo, everyone.
Banned from Argo just for having a little fun.
We spent a jolly shore leave there for just three days or four,
But Argo doesn't want us anymore.

The Captain's tastes were simple, but his methods were complex.
We found him with five partners, each of a different world and sex.
The Shore Police were on the way--we had no second chance.
We beamed him up in the nick of time--and the remnants of his pants.

Our Engineer would yield to none at putting down the brew;
He outdrank seven space marines and a demolition crew.
The Navigator didn't win, but he outdrank almost all,
And now they've got a shuttlecraft on the roof of City Hall.

Our proper, cool First Officer was drugged with something green,
And hauled into an alley, where he suffered things obscene.
He sobered up in Sickbay and he's none the worse for wear,
Except he's somehow taught the bridge computer how to swear.

The Head Nurse disappeared awhile in the major Dope Bazarr,
Buying an odd green potion "guaranteed to cause Pon-Farr".
She came home with no uniform and an oddly cheerful heart,
And a painful way of walking--with her feet a yard apart.

Our lady of Communications won a ship-wide bet
By getting into the planet's main communications net.
Now every time someone calls up on an Argo telescreen,
The flesh is there, but the clothes they wear are nowhere to be seen.

Our Doctor loves Humanity; his private life is quiet.
The Shore Police arrested him for inciting whores to riot.
We found him in the city jail, locked on and beamed him free--
Intact except for hickeys and six kinds of VD.

Our Helmsman loves exotic plants; the plants all love him too.
He took some down on leave with him and we wondered what they'd do,
'Til the planetary governor called and swore upon his life
That a gang of plants entwined his house and then seduced his wife!

A gang of pirates landed, and nobody seemed to care.
They stamped into the nearest bar to announce that they were there.
Half our crew was busy there, and invited them to play,
But the pirates only looked at us, and turned and ran away.

Our crew is Starfleet's finest, and our record is our pride.
And when we play we tend to leave a trail a mile wide.
We're sorry about the wreckage and the riots and the fuss;
At least we're sure that planet won't be quick forgetting us!

copyright Leslie Fish, 1977

[I believe the tune is a traditional one, but which I don't recall.]
--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 277 of 284
 From : Carson Chittom                      1:3632/65       .pä 21 .åâ 96 20:22
 To   : Kay Shapero
 Subj : Tagline?
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

-=>Happily did Kay speak thus unto Darre<=-

 KS> ... Argelfraster!

<raised eyebrow> Huh?

... Laugh, and the world laughs with you. - Snore and you sleep alone.

___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20 [NR]

--- Maximus 3.01
 * Origin: No Regrets, Clinton, MS (601)924-8247 9P-5A (1:3632/65)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 278 of 284
 From : Star Hawk                           1:362/708.6     .åò 22 .åâ 96 17:15
 To   : Flemming Norup
 Subj : elfquest
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
From my perch I saw this come out of the gravity well from Flemming Norup:

  [> Flemming Norup [> Maybe YOU could do something about the
  [> inavailability of EQ in Denmark?

     Sorry, I'm not part of the biz [I know, this is way late, but I've been
busy with other things and haven't been able to get to my mail].

                                        Star Hawk, the EchoTrickster

--- MacWoof Eval:23Dec93
 * Origin: William Bull Hedrick @ Hawk Haven's Orbital Point (1:362/708.6)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 279 of 284
 From : Ecarey                              1:101/230       .åò 22 .åâ 96 06:48
 To   : Bill Clements
 Subj : EDUCATION
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
BC>If your daughter has been diagnosed as having Attention Deficit
BC>Disorder the _ONLY_ way she is likely to be educated is through
BC>your efforts.  The "Professional Educators", I use the term under
BC>advisedment, will place her in a "Special" program where she will
BC>get a "Special Diploma" or a Certificate of Attendance rather
BC>than graduate from high school.  She then can attempt to get a
BC>General Equivalency Diploma before applying for a job, or work at
BC>menial labor for the rest of her life.  It is possible that she
BC>may qualify to work in a Sheltered Workshop and live in a group
BC>home, sponsored by the Association for Retarded Citizens, if you
BC>are not able to support her as an adult.  Private, or Home,
BC>Education can probably save your child's future.  Public
BC>Education leaves her no future at all!

BC>I am truly sorry for having to tell you this but I have seen this
BC>happen.  I wish you and your children the best.

It's not what happened to my nephew, who had ADD, attended public
schools in Houston, TX, and just this past spring graduated from
college at age 20 - two years early, for those who've lost track of
what's considered "normal".

Get your nose out of the air and get back in contact with the real
world.


BC>To remain on topic I suggest that you read 'THE HAPPY DAYS AHEAD'
BC>in 'EXPANDED UNIVERSE' (C)opyright 1980 by Robert A. Heinlein.

One of his poorest efforts ever, because, atypical for Heinlein, he
doesn't "play fair" with his premises - he just decrees that an
other-than-totally-pessimistic outlook must by definition be a
_mindlessly_ happy outlook.

In other essays collected in that same volume, he also indicates his
absolute certainty that the collapse of civiliation due to full-scale
nuclear exchange between the USA and the USSR, and that the only people
who would survive would be those who withdrew themselves from urban
centers and set up well-stocked shelters for themselves. Have you
checked out the actual geopolitical situation lately?

 * OLX 2.1 TD * Press any key to continue or any other key to quit

--- FLAME v1.0
 * Origin: Withouta Net - Drop In Anytime! - 617/846-5416 (1:101/230)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 280 of 284
 From : Anders Danebo                       2:201/190       .ÿò 23 .åâ 96 07:12
 To   : Bianca Wesslak
 Subj : Cybersex
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

-=> Quoting Bianca Wesslak to Anders Danebo <=-

 BW> And pray tell me just what is serious Science
 BW> Fiction????????.............. To you what may be serious Sci-Fi, may
 BW> very well to others be fun and games. Also to you talking about sex may
 BW> be boring and uninteresting, that's your perogative, but to others it
 BW> may very well be something completely different. ANd as to your comment
 BW> no one can get serious when sex is involved, WHy???]

Sex always invites a kind of childishness that almost always gets out
of hand and ends good discussions...Only my opinion but why speak about
sex when you can do it instead...Right or Wrong??


... Air Geordis . TNG Footwear
--- GEcho 1.00
 * Origin: =:Detroit Rock City:= Stockholm, Sweden  +46-8-870055 (2:201/190)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 281 of 284
 From : Dean Sweatman                       1:396/40        .óá 24 .åâ 96 13:22
 To   : All
 Subj : CRESCENT CITY CON XI
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: InterEcho 1.12 6E010867
 * Originally By: Cccxi@aol.com
 * Originally To: Dean Sweatman
 * Originally Re: CRESCENT CITY CON XI
 * Original Date: 02-24-96  05:30
 * Original Area: i.uucp.email
 * Forwarded by : Blue Wave/DOS v2.20

From: CCCXI@aol.com
To: JHABER@ocean.st.usm.edu, jacobs@beta.loyno.edu, DianeY1003@aol.com, Date:
Sat, 24 Feb 1996 12:30:49 -0500 Subject: CRESCENT CITY CON XI

                                                   Greetings one and all. This
is an official notification to let everyone know that CCC XI is online . We've
joined the electronic age and can be reached via e-mail at

                                    CCC XI @aol.com

The dates have been set for the Con...August 2,3,4 at the Quality Hotel and
CONvention Center in Metairie.(same location as last year-they asked us to come
back.) Julie Austin is hard at work trying to confirm our guests (don't want to
mention names yet-hate cons that list INVITED guests.) Staff is currently being
assembled and the first meeting is scheduled for march 16, at 6:00p.m. at
robert's house. Please, if you're interested in attending, call me at
504-488-0489 and confirm as the house is small and fills up easily.the WORD has
been given-please start spreading the word.
                                                                     ROBERT L.
NEAGLE

                                                                     CHAIRMAN
CCC XI


... Dean Sweatman's Continuing and Relentless quest toward Fuggheadedness

___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20 [NR]


--- InterEcho 1.12
 * Origin: REUNION BBS, Harahan, La., USA (504) 738-5162 Try God (1:396/40)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 282 of 284
 From : Jeroen Jacobs                       2:292/506.26    .åò 22 .åâ 96 12:31
 To   : Anders Danebo
 Subj : Hello !
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Yow Anders !! Where the hell are you ??

Zaterdag Februari 17 1996 20:54, Anders Danebo schreef naar Jeroen Jacobs:

 JJ>> And these are my favorite SF-series:

 JJ>> - the X files.
 JJ>> - Star Trek : Deep Space 9
 JJ>> - Star Trek : The Next Generation
 JJ>> - Star Trek : Voyager
 JJ>> - The Outer Limits

 AD> You must be my twin or my twin soul...Exactly my faves..

Twin ??.....cool !!

I forgot one : Twin peaks (I consider it SF).

Does anybody know about a confrontation VOYAGER <-> BORG ??



Greetings from The Prince of Darkness,

                                        Jeroen

                                   -[PGP_ID=1F7602ED]-


...I am Zsa Zsa of Borg. Prepare to be assimilated dahling.

--- FMail/386 1.0g
 * Origin: 2:292/506.26  (2:292/506.26)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 283 of 284
 From : Jeroen Jacobs                       2:292/506.26    .åò 22 .åâ 96 12:41
 To   : All
 Subj : 'bugs' in ST: Generations
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Yow All !! Where the hell are you ??

recently: I sawa list with the mistakes in Star Trek : generations. Here it
comes:

-Soran hits Lursa's head and she starts bleeding....red blood. In 'the
undiscovered country' however,klingons have purple blood.

-When Picard request 'exchange of hostages' they say that Picard has to be
beamed to their ship first, en then they will beam him to Veridian III .When
Picard lands on Veridian III , we see a federation transporter beam in stead of
a klingon one.

-Veridian III : a 'western'-image of Kirk with black pants -> Kirk's pants are
supposed to have red line on the sides, which are missing in this scene.

-The klingons are getting de shield frequency of the Enterprise .Riker is
seeking desperate solutions. Why didn't he changed the shield-frequency like he
did in 'The best of both worlds' ??

If somebody has found other mistakes (not necessarely in 'generations'), please
let me know.

Greetings from The Prince of Darkness,

                                        Jeroen

                                   -[PGP_ID=1F7602ED]-


...We have engaged the Borg. The wedding will be Friday.

--- FMail/386 1.0g
 * Origin: 2:292/506.26  (2:292/506.26)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 284 of 284
 From : Samantha Smartt                     1:124/8107      .óá 24 .åâ 96 11:09
 To   : Darre LuAllen
 Subj : The Enchanted Forest Chr
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

DL> stories like that for several reasons.  First, I really
DL> like fanciful stories.  I'm a bit   of a romantic.  Second,

You'll love the Wrede work. And how about Pamela Dean, too?
Latest is THE DUBIOUS HILLS.  I also discovered C. Dale Brittain-- the first two
books about A BAD SPELL IN YURT and THE WOOD NYMPH AND THE CRANKY SAINT.  Very
accessible but still with the sense of the fantastic.  You have, I trust,
already read Tolkien and Lewis?

DL> as a writer, I like seeing how everyone else does    it.

Oh, then have you tried the writing echoes?  There's PROWRITE for the contracts
and business end, and there's NON-FICTION for the article writers, but I like to
lurk on WRITING.  It has a lot of chat and some of it can be skipped, but
overall I enjoy it and have learned a lot.  Maybe someday I will post on it.
Also there's poetry echoes and a fun one called BARDROOM for writers to just
talk.

Of course you'll stay here first too.  :)

DL> Finally, I'm putting together a library for my children
DL> (assuming I   ever get the chance to have any) before the
DL> government decides to take    all these books from the
DL> shelves.

Really!  Isn't it absurd.  They've already taken off all the Mark Twain here,
because "HUCK FINN is racist (!) and the one about the prince is sexist."  They
have no sense of irony or concept of satire or sarcasm.  They take things too
literally.  Or they haven't read it at all and are just trolling for something
to jump on (which is what I think!)  Oops, off topic.  I think they also banned
some SF novels as "too adult."  (!??)

--- timEd-A10b
 * Origin:       Palindrome WriterNet 214-437-2734      (1:124/8107)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 1 of 195
 From : Tommy Kellerman                     2:205/356       .òp 20 .åâ 96 22:41
 To   : Frank Glover
 Subj : BS!!
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
In a message dated 18-Feb-96 12:38:01, Frank Glover wrote:

TK>  Ever seen the movie "Dune"? The Harkonnens are crueller than any
TK>  humans I've
TK>  seen in fiction, installing "heart plugs" and so on...

 FG>    I've seen the movie, but I'm not otherwise familiar with the Dune
 FG> universe. However, my understanding is that they *are* descended from
 FG> Earth humans. And those implants were done intentionally to one's self,
 FG> for some reason....

Well, they were implanted to give the Harkonnens power over their people.
Do you know if there's a sequel, or is that too much hoping for?


/// -Tommy K.- \\\  * Going cruising on thursday, YAAAHOOOOO ! *

--- Xenolink 1.0 Z.3, EmacsXL.4
 * Origin: NoLimit, Furudal +46-258-10071 (2:205/356)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 2 of 195
 From : Tommy Kellerman                     2:205/356       .òp 20 .åâ 96 22:43
 To   : Frank Glover
 Subj : Re: clarification
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
In a message dated 18-Feb-96 12:44:02, Frank Glover wrote:

TK>  Sorry for interrupting but, SF FOLKSONGS ???
TK>
TK>  Tell me all about it! (Can't access it from Sweden)

 FG>    Yep! There are aplenty! I don't know how common SF conventions ae  in
 FG> Europe, but if you have occasion to go to one, there will almost  always
 FG> be an area and/or panel discussion devoted to filking.

So, what do they discuss? I mean, we're talking SF folk-songs here !!

Sounds weird...


/// -Tommy K.- \\\

--- Xenolink 1.0 Z.3, EmacsXL.4
 * Origin: NoLimit, Furudal +46-258-10071 (2:205/356)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 3 of 195
 From : Tommy Kellerman                     2:205/356       .òp 20 .åâ 96 22:59
 To   : Frank Glover
 Subj : Re: Alien threats?
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
In a message dated 18-Feb-96 14:02:05, Frank Glover wrote:

TK>   FG>   Or a *potential* threat.
TK>
TK>  With OUR technology? Our greatest weapon is the will to live, or
TK>  survive (IMHO).

 FG>    Evolution favors a `will to live' in virtually all species, really.
 FG> But by potential threat, I mean what we will *eventually* be able to  do.
 FG> ("Commander Xartech, they already possess thermonuclear weapons,  and
 FG> speculate on wormholes, tachyons and nanotechnology. We must  destroy them
 FG> before they develop [technology unknown to us].") This was  the premise
 FG> behind `The Day The Earth Stood Still,' ("Do what you want  at home, but
 FG> clean up your act before you come out here, or expect more  robots.') and
 FG> 2001: A Space Odyssey ("These pre-humans have potential.  Let's leave a
 FG> beacon on their Moon, and by the time they are able to  get there and dig
 FG> it up, they'll be worth another look.").

When seeing those movies, it really didn't occur to me, until now...

TK>   FG>    Their reply may be; "So what?"
TK>
TK>  Well yes, but in that case, why wait?

 FG>    And that goes back to:

 FG>    A: There's no one out there at all (or *exceedingly* few and far
 FG> between)

But maybe with an adequate tech level to travel at great distances,
maybe just to make contact, or surveying the planet(s).

 FG>    B: Someone's out there, but we just haven't been found yet.

Oh, yes. But maybe we'll find them first.

 FG>    C: Someone's out there, knows we're here, but have no hostile
 FG> intentions, and no desire to show themselves as yet. (which may or may
 FG> not have anything to do with ufo's)

If this is it, the UFO phenomenon is yet to be explained.

 FG>    Someone out there who knew we were here, *with* hostile intentions
 FG> would almost certainly have taken some open action by now. (Of course  we
 FG> could get into ideas about subtle, covert takeovers, but for now I  think
 FG> that's *truly* crossing the paranoia line.)

Agree.

TK>   FG> guys.' However, I also never believed the argument that violent,
TK>
TK>   FG> aggressive races will destroy themselves before acheiving
TK>  interstellar travel, either.
TK>
TK>  Why not? Civilisations could destroy themselves very easily, like if
TK>  some
TK>  germ (produced) or some weapon would go "haywire".

 FG>    But accidents can happen even to non-hostile races. It doesn't even
 FG> have to involve weapons. Nanotecnological `gray-goo' scenarios, or the
 FG> Trek episode `Miri' where what was meant to be a life-extension
 FG> experiment got away, causing very long childhoods, then dropping dead  at
 FG> puberty.

Sorry, haven't seen it. No ST episodes are currently on Swedish TV.
And I haven't heard about the "gray-goo"-scenarios. Please explain.

 FG>    Against such possibilites, expansion to other worlds (starting
 FG> withone's own solar system, then beyond) becomes important so that  one's
 FG> species survives, even if the homeworld becomes uninhabitable.

Yep, but I doubt I'll live to see it. Shame, because I want to. ;)

 FG>    But as you say, I truly do hope and expect that our first contacts
 FG> will be peaceful ones.

Yep.


/// -Tommy K.- \\\

--- Xenolink 1.0 Z.3, EmacsXL.4
 * Origin: NoLimit, Furudal +46-258-10071 (2:205/356)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 4 of 195
 From : Tommy Kellerman                     2:205/356       .òp 20 .åâ 96 23:17
 To   : Mark Jones
 Subj : UFO
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
In a message dated 16-Feb-96 00:37:47, Mark Jones wrote:

 MJ>    "Some UFOs are actually starships from other worlds" is an
 MJ> unfalsifiable assertion.  There is no way to disprove it.  No matter
 MJ> how many UFOs are determined to be weather balloons, swamp gas,
 MJ> ordinary aircraft or weather phenomena, the proponents of this theory
 MJ> can always say that others *are* the real thing.
 MJ>    It's a useless (and unscientific) position.

I see your point.

 MJ>    On the other hand, the claim that "NO UFOs are actually starships
 MJ> from other worlds" is easily falsified simply by providing proof of
 MJ> *one* instance in which such a vessel turns up.  But so far, the
 MJ> evidence is underwhelming.

Yep! Guess we'll just have to wait.

 MJ>    There may or may not be alien civilizations.  They may or may not
 MJ> be more advanced than we.  And they may or may not be visiting us.
 MJ> But until we have real, tangible proof of this, I'll continue to
 MJ> believe that UFOs are adequately explained by mundane occurences.

Well Mark, please do, but I do hope you understand my position as well.

When I saw this... well let's call it a UFO for now, shall we?
Well, anyways, I wasn't under any kind of influence, and I saw the UFO for about
30 mins, before I lost it and ran home and made my mother watch it as well. It
felt awkward when I first laid eyes on it to be the only witness, so
it felt good when my mother saw it as well. At least, I knew then that I wasn't
going bananas...!

And frankly, if it wasn't a UFO, well, then I don't know what the f--k I DID
see, but it wasn't from my neighborhood, I can tell you that.

So you get all excited and tell your friends (the ones you trust, and trust you,
who don't try to make fun of you all the time) and starts shaking
just because of the experience. Nothing quite like it. You can't even compare
it to sex, but of course, they're two different things!

I understand that you're a sceptic, and I know you won't change until proven
otherwise, but imagine how it felt when I, who always believed that "there must
be something out there" suddenly discovered that " I was right! ".
Such a sensation... I hope you'll experience it someday.

MY ony tangible proof is my memory, and my mind, which I'm not out of.


Sincerely,


/// -Tommy K.- \\\

--- Xenolink 1.0 Z.3, EmacsXL.4
 * Origin: NoLimit, Furudal +46-258-10071 (2:205/356)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 5 of 195
 From : Steve Thomas                        1:279/27        .óá 24 .åâ 96 22:31
 To   : Elizabeth H. Penrose
 Subj : Not to be seen
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
The lines I liked the best were:

"It was the middle (bush) one!"

           and

"And this was the neighbor who told us where they (neighbors) were!"

 But my favorite skit is the 127th Annual Twit of the Year Best in Show.

"And Nigel has run himself over...What a great twit!"

                                   --Steve

--- PCBoard (R) v15.22/M 2
 * Origin: <<*> Blue Powder <*>> þ St. Albans, WV þ 304-727-6733 (1:279/27)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 6 of 195
 From : Steve Thomas                        1:279/27        .óá 24 .åâ 96 22:40
 To   : All
 Subj : Marcon 31
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Anyone going to Marcon 31 in Columbus, Ohio May 3,4 and 5?

                             --Steve

--- PCBoard (R) v15.22/M 2
 * Origin: <<*> Blue Powder <*>> þ St. Albans, WV þ 304-727-6733 (1:279/27)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 7 of 195
 From : Nicolai Shapero                     1:102/524       .óá 24 .åâ 96 05:44
 To   : Anders Danebo
 Subj : Cybersex
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Feb 21 17:21>, Anders Danebo (2:201/190) wrote to Mark Jones:

 AD>theme..It's
 AD>still the same old sex and it's not very interestning..Why not
 AD>simply
 AD>create a cybersex conference and talk about it there..Sci Fi and
 AD>sex doesn't
 AD>belong together...My opinion but i belive it to be a sound one...

"We're here to protect democracy, not to practice it."  Your opinion regarding
what is and is not off-topic may be considered, but it is an opinion that means
much less than that of the moderator, who regards the subject as "on topic"
(within broad limits).

-- Nicolai Shapero, Moderator of the SFFAN echo

--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 8 of 195
 From : Kay Shapero                         1:102/524       .óá 24 .åâ 96 11:01
 To   : JOHN ROSS
 Subj : Re: Help
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Feb 22 09:33>, JOHN ROSS (1:116/1977@fidonet) wrote to JUDY HAYES:

 JR>Thanks ,Kay said that she sent me one and I'll see if it shows up
 JR>in the next week or so.Thanks again

With Leslie's permission, I just posted it to the echo at large, so if you don't
see the copy I sent you, you may find it here.

--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 9 of 195
 From : Kay Shapero                         1:102/524       .óá 24 .åâ 96 11:02
 To   : Anders Danebo
 Subj : Cybersex
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Feb 21 17:21>, Anders Danebo (2:201/190) wrote to Mark Jones:

 AD>Sci Fi and Sex hasn't got anything incommon..All that is changed
 AD>is that the technology and imagination has been applied to the sex
 AD>theme..It's still the same old sex and it's not very interestning.

Ever read Ursula K. Leguin's _The Left Hand Of Darkness_?  Or for that matter,
some of Philip Jose Farmer's stuff.  There's a heck of a lot more to this topic
than you think.

--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 10 of 195
 From : Mark Jones                          1:105/302.47    .pä 21 .åâ 96 23:23
 To   : Jon Helis
 Subj : Cybersex
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On (14 Feb 96) Jon Helis wrote to Barton Paul Levenson...

 JH> The 1973 Michael Crichton film "Westworld" dealt with this issue
 JH> in a very interesting way.
 JH>
 JH> Anyone who's seen it care to discuss it?

Sure.  My main complaint with the idea (android sex partners) is
actually the same complaint I have with *most* depictions of androids
and robots in fiction.  You can't convince me that something with
access hatches and little "doors" for repairs and maintenance is going
to look (or feel!) like real human flesh.  Especially when it uses
pulleys and gears to move its limbs.

It seems to me that anything intended to simulate human appearance,
motion and feel is going to have to be designed very much like a
human.  Which means:  artificial muscles over synthetic bones--not
metallic frameworks with a plastic "skin" molded around them.

So you'd end up with cybernetic limbs or robots that have a very human
skeletal structure (albeit metal or plastic or ceramic) overlaid by a
very human musculature beneath a flexible "skin" with no rigid access
hatches or ports.  Any repairs would probably require *cutting* into
the skin and muscle, just like repairs on humans--and then replacing
or sealing the openings afterward.

This assumes that the cybernetic limb or robot is supposed to pass for
a human under normal social (or sexual) circumstances.  If it need
only pass for human at a distance, or is out of reach (like Disneyland
animatronics), then obviously you can lower your standards.

Steve Austin's bionic limbs and Commander Data's android body can
*either* be quite obviously artificial--including the easy-open
ports--or they can be realistic enough for close contact without being
detectable.  But not both.

--- PPoint 1.78
 * Origin: Folcroft Sanitarium (hsmith@cure.com) (1:105/302.47)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 11 of 195
 From : Mark Jones                          1:105/302.47    .pä 21 .åâ 96 23:36
 To   : ROBERT LIDGREN
 Subj : TERAFORMING
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On (19 Feb 96) ROBERT LIDGREN wrote to ALL...

 RL> Here's a question for readers of SF out there. Have you read any
 RL> good books or short stories containing the process of
 RL> TERRAFORMING? The process was used in a Star Trek movie but I
 RL> want to explore the idea further in fiction.

No specific recommendations, but check out the "hard" SF
writers--especially Poul Anderson, Hal Clement, Larry Niven, etc.


--- PPoint 1.78
 * Origin: Folcroft Sanitarium (hsmith@cure.com) (1:105/302.47)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 12 of 195
 From : Aaron Turon                         1:137/2         .óá 24 .åâ 96 06:48
 To   : Barton Paul Levenson
 Subj : What I want to talk about
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
I'd like to talk about STAR TREK Cya! ;)


--- Opus-CBCS 1.73a
 * Origin: Chipper Clipper * Scott me up beamy! * 941-745-56 (1:137/2.0)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 13 of 195
 From : Frank Swarbrick                     1:104/825       .ÿò 23 .åâ 96 23:46
 To   : All
 Subj : X-Files: Pusher!!
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12  92-0022
What an awesome episode!!  We expect that the conspiracy arc episodes
are going to be great, but when an episode like "Pusher" airs it just
renews hope for the entire show.  Now, unlike some people, I haven't
really been down on season three.  It's had some really good episodes.
But this one seemed extra special for some reason.

I loved the fact that Scully and Mulder we're really partners on this
show.  So often one or the other is off on their own little tangent.
But on this one they were together almost the whole time.  And the
UST!  Sheesh!  They really love teasing us.  Eyes, eyes, and then
hands.  Yow!

I also have a special love for episodes when they work with other
agents and parts of the bureau, and "Pusher" had plenty of that.  Not
to mention Skinner.  (Who should be back in the hospital after what
happened to him. <g>  How'd he get out so fast?)

Not to mention the bad guy.  Absolutely menacing.  He reminded me some
of the guy in "2Shy," but this one was much better.

Well, there was a lot more that was great about it as well, but I'm a
terrible reviewer so I'll have to stop now.  But suffice it to say,
The X-Files still has what it takes!  It had it's faults, sure, but
enough people talk about those, so I'll leave you to it.

        Frank

... I Want To Believe -- The X-Files
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12
 * Origin: The Bailey Information Exchange BBS, 28.8k v.fc  (1:104/825.0)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 14 of 195
 From : Oai Luong                           1:109/611       .cê 25 .åâ 96 17:25
 To   : Barton Paul Levenson
 Subj : Re: Star Trek
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 BP>> I don't remember sending the message you cite, though I'm glad to
 BP>> have your opinion.


       Well I was reading messages and I saw what you guys where saying so I
decided to join in.

Oai Luong

.NOTE: IceEdit 1.60 E17688
--- QuickBBS 2.80 GoldBase (Zeta-1)
 * Origin: AD Message BBS/10th Year Online! (703)241-1826 (1:109/611@FIDONET)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 15 of 195
 From : Don Bach                            1:3632/65       .óá 24 .åâ 96 18:12
 To   : Phill Ash
 Subj : STAR TREK SEXISM
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
I'm not sure how this evolved under the indicated subject line, but here
goes....

 BPL> Consider the upper classes in the Roman Republic
 BPL> and the early Empire.
 BPL> Generally two parents, plus professional tutors,
 BPL> servants and slaves.

 PA>         The upper-class, yes.  But have you noticed that remarkably
 PA>         little is heard of middle & lower-class Romans...

No middle class - that is a product of the Industrial Revolution.  The lower
class *IS* the servants and slaves.

 PA>         ... the Roman Empire
 PA>         poisoned its collective self by running all of their cities'
 PA>         irrigation through LEAD PIPES!!!

We are just now learning from history.  There are many lead pipes carrying
domestic water in the U.S.  There is also a lot of lead-based solder used on
other metal piping.  Copper is also a dangerous element.

EPA is currently requiring in-home testing of copper and lead levels to
determine the current level of danger.

A utopian future (ala ST) has us learning from our past mistakes.  We certainly
aren't doing it presently.

Don

--- Maximus 3.01
 * Origin: No Regrets, Clinton, MS (601)924-8247 9P-5A (1:3632/65)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 16 of 195
 From : Owen E. Oulton                      1:243/45        .cê 25 .åâ 96 02:12
 To   : Brion Lienhart
 Subj : Gen - X movie
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 BL> Enh, it was ok. That was Colm Meany playing Banshee
 BL> wasn't it? The beard and different hair kind of threw
 BL> me off.

Colm Meany?  No, this guy was younger, skinnier, and had a much heavier accent.
The name of the actor is Jeremy Ratchford.

CFN, O

--- Maximus 2.01wb
 * Origin: Pandora's Box, Ottawa, Ont. 613-829-1209 (1:243/45)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 17 of 195
 From : Pavel Viaznikov                     2:5020/185.9    .cê 25 .åâ 96 01:10
 To   : Frank Glover
 Subj : Alien threats?
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.RFC-Path:
apex!apexua!f200.n464!f400.n5020!f35.n5020!f144.n5020!f269.n5020!f185.n5020!not-
for-mail
Good day/night/mornung/etc., Frank!

Sunday February 18 1996 14:02, Frank Glover wrote to Tommy Kellerman:

 FG>    Evolution favors a `will to live' in virtually all species, really.

- With certain reservations: like when at times a switch clicks and voila! you
have lemmings and whales marching into death.

 FG> But by potential threat, I mean what we will *eventually* be able to  do.
 FG> ("Commander Xartech, they already possess thermonuclear weapons,
 FG> and speculate on wormholes, tachyons and nanotechnology. We must  destroy
 FG> them before they develop [technology unknown to us].") This was  the

- That's right. Let anybody imagine what *our* race (represented by politicians
and the military) would do if we once found out a, say, big ant-hill with them
ants assembling a Polaris of their own?

 FG>    Someone out there who knew we were here, *with* hostile intentions
 FG> would almost certainly have taken some open action by now. (Of course  we
 FG> could get into ideas about subtle, covert takeovers, but for now I  think
 FG> that's *truly* crossing the paranoia line.)

- Remember the short story titled "Okkam's scalpel"? A clever specialist in
medical dummies there made an imitation body of an alien, to prove to a #1 Boss
that Earth is being slowly de-terraformed in order to make it suitable for the
extraterrestials (from human point of view, polluted). Later, the dummy-maker
and his brother start thinking that their version could after all be true.
So there are such ideas, and they *are* paranoid, but that's what a SF writer
needs for an interesting story!

 FG> But as you say, I truly do hope and expect that our first contacts  will
 FG> FG> be peaceful ones.

- I also hope so - on the other hand, even the very best intentions of those
alien beings could finally result in serious troubles for us. History shows
that
when different civilizations made a contact, it usually led to assimilation or
destruction of a weaker (not necessarily inferior) culture. Also - do you
remember the Cold War? The USSR hoped to impose socialism onto the whole world,
and not everybody enjoyed the idea. But believe me, the bigger part of the
Soviet people believed that socialism is better... no, they believed that
capitalism is worse than socialism, even though they could see drawbacks of our
(socialist) system. So they meant good. Now, suppose your aliens want to
improve
our society as *they* think would be good for us. No hostile intentions - only
kind fraternal help. Would you gladly and willingly accept that help? Or would
you consider such help as a threat to us?

                            Best regards,
                                           Pavel.

--- ifmail v.2.8
 * Origin: - De: Spiritus vini, tinctura aqua 40% (2:5020/185.9)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 18 of 195
 From : Bill Clements                       1:18/230        .óá 24 .åâ 96 02:14
 To   : Robert Lidgren
 Subj : TERAFORMING
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
From the desk of a cynical old man...

On (19 Feb 96) ROBERT LIDGREN wrote to ALL...

 RL> Here's a question for readers of SF out there. Have you
 RL> read any good books or short stories containing the process
 RL> of TERRAFORMING?

'SURFACE ACTION' (C)opyright 1990 by David Drake touches briefly
on the mechanics and then deals with living in the resultant
environment. 'THE JUNGLE' (C)opyright 1991 by David Drake is the
sequel; no terraforming but lots of action. The theme of these
two works is that of water-world of Venus, circa 1940's Science
Fiction.

I believe that there is mention of "Packet Seeder Probes" in the
chronicle of the society known as the State in:

'A WORLD OUT OF TIME' (C)opyright 1976 by Larry Niven
'THE INTEGRAL TREES' (C)opyright 1983 by Larry Niven
'THE SMOKE RING' (C)opyright 1987 by Larry Niven

but no real detail of the process of terraforming.

I hope this helps; it's all that comes to mind at the moment.

"An elephant: A mouse built to government specifications." --LL
--- LazarusTags  / QWK

--- FLAME v1.1
 * Origin: ANCESTRY TBBS Shadows of forgotten ancestors 941-382-9061 (1:18/230)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 19 of 195
 From : Anders Danebo                       2:201/190       .cê 25 .åâ 96 08:21
 To   : Frank Swarbrick
 Subj : Hello !
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

-=> Quoting Frank Swarbrick to Anders Danebo <=-

 JJ> - the X files.
 JJ> - Star Trek : Deep Space 9
 JJ> - Star Trek : The Next Generation
 JJ> - Star Trek : Voyager
 JJ> - The Outer Limits

 FS> What, no Babylon 5?

B5 is a natural choice...And it sure comes up in the top 2..
My personal list is

       The X Files
       Star Trek : The Next Generation
       Babylon 5
       Star Trek : Deep Space 9
       Star Trek : Voyager
       The Outer Limits...

That's my personal faves...



... "Energize!" said Picard and the pink bunny appeared...
--- GEcho 1.00
 * Origin: =:Detroit Rock City:= Stockholm, Sweden  +46-8-870055 (2:201/190)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 20 of 195
 From : Edward Spindle                      1:363/1701      .óá 24 .åâ 96 23:01
 To   : Nicolai Shapero
 Subj : Re: Legacy of the Ancients- by Electronic Arts
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
I realize that! But Im desperate to find this game!!!!
                                    o.k.
                                 ed s

... A mouse is an elephant built in Japan.
--- QuickBBS 2.80 (Zeta-1)
 * Origin: NCC-1701 - Orlando, FL   407-380-1701 (1:363/1701)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 21 of 195
 From : Ken Mayes                           1:393/7         .îí 26 .åâ 96 11:00
 To   : Mark Jones
 Subj : Re: Star Trek
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On Tue 20-Feb-1996 11:10p, Mark Jones said to Kim Wheat:

MJ>    And all of them COULD be.  Except that They (Paramount, the
MJ> producers, everyone) is terrified of making any real or lasting
MJ> changes to The Cash Cow.  No threat--no matter how ominous--will
MJ> endure for longer than two episodes, tops.  And all will revert to
MJ> status quo by the end of the last episode.
MJ>    Sure, the Klingons broke the peace treaty.  Great episode.  What's
MJ> happened since then?  Not a **** thing worth mentioning.
MJ>    The Dominion had agents in place on Earth.  The Feds whipped them
MJ> in two episodes (including travel time).  Yawn.


        Wrong. I wonder if you've truly watched the series. The Dominion threat
to Earth has been brewing and building momentum for nearly three seasons now.
The Klingons are spoiling for a fight encroaching on the Cardasian and Bajoran
boarders (the last episode with the Klingons building a super mine field around
the Bajoran system was great).
        And as far as the Feds whipping the butts of the Dominion on Earth, bull
pucky. The Feds never even laid a hand on those agents. In fact the main thrust
of the episode was the agents only indirectly influencing the Feds to shoot
themselves in the foot through fear. It worked pretty good, a Star Fleet Admiral
fell from grace, a conspiracy within the academy was exposed, and the true
vulnerability of the Federation was highlighted.
        The episode also attacked some serious issues concerning personal
freedom and liberty weighed against the security of the State which apparently
went over your head.
        And most importantly at the end of the episode, the shape-shifting
agents are STILL THERE, hiding away somewhere on the planet still stirring up
business. In fact in one very important scene one of them contacts Sisko and
taunts him by saying that there were only four of them on Earth and "Look at all
the mayhem and confusion they had wrought." Granted, he could have delivering
disinformation, but the mayhem and confusion was real enough.
        I'd suggest that you take a closer look at the episodes in question. DS9
is NOTHING like it was during the first season. Too many lasting changes have
been made to the setting, not the least of which is the coup on Cardassia which
replaced the formerly hostile government there with a more peaceful friendly
one. I utterly fail to comprehend your argument concerning lack of permanent
change in the show when it abounds if you look for it...something you obviously
haven't done.



--- CNet/3
 * Origin: The Bard's Tavern Denton, TX (817)243-5110 USR 28.8   (1:393/7)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 22 of 195
 From : Kay Shapero                         1:102/524       .cê 25 .åâ 96 15:38
 To   : Carson Chittom
 Subj : Tagline?
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Feb 21 20:22>, Carson Chittom (1:3632/65) wrote to Kay Shapero:

 KS> ... Argelfraster!

 CC><raised eyebrow> Huh?

From Patricia Wrede's Enchanted Forest novels (Talking With Dragons, etc.)  Less
messy substitute for soapy water with lemon if you want to melt wizards.

--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 23 of 195
 From : Elizabeth H. Penrose                1:129/26        .cê 25 .åâ 96 15:15
 To   : Anders Danebo
 Subj : Cybersex
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Sex, though not cybersex, treated in an adult manner:  Silverburg, _The World
Inside._  (It's hearsay on my part; I've never read it.)

--- Maximus 3.01
 * Origin: SoundingBoard, Pittsburgh PA (1:129/26)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 24 of 195
 From : Todd Sullivan                       1:202/720.3     .îí 26 .åâ 96 20:27
 To   : Barton Paul Levenson
 Subj : Cyber-Oopsies
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Jon Helis was kicking back and telling sea stories until Inspector General
Barton Paul Levenson walked in and said, "Knock off with that Cybersex and get
back to work!"  There was no choice but to shoot Barton.

 BPL> I liked Westworld, though I think the premise was pretty silly.  A
 BPL> robot with serious problems is much more likely not to work at all
 BPL> than to work dangerously.

I look at Westworld as an example of *serious* software glitches. Considering
just how complex the programming was, and the problems there were, it was
inevitable.

Something along the lines of ST:TNG's Moriarty.

Todd Sullivan

... "Computer, open this hatch or I'll take an axe to your memory."

-*- ASTG 1.9

--- Spot 1.3a Unregistered
 * Origin: Todd's Spot in the Continuum (1:202/720.3)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 25 of 195
 From : Todd Sullivan                       1:202/720.3     .îí 26 .åâ 96 20:30
 To   : Kay Shapero
 Subj : Fan/fanatic/fancier
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Bill Clements was kicking back and telling sea stories until Inspector General
Kay Shapero walked in and said, "Knock off with that Fan/fanatic/fancier and get
back to work!"  There was no choice but to shoot Kay.

 KS> On <Feb 21 20:19>, Bill Clements (1:18/230) wrote to All:

 BC>> fan (fan) n. (Slang)  a devoted admirer  [abbrev. of fanatic].

 BC>> fa-nat-ic (fa-nat'-ik) n.  a person inspired with excessive and
 BC>> bigoted enthusiasm, esp. a religious zealot; devotee; a. over-
 BC>> enthusiastic; immoderatly zealous.  -al  a.  -ally  adv.
 BC>> fanaticism n. violent enthusiasm [L. fanum, a temple].

 KS> Frankly I've always doubted that derivation, Webster notwithstanding.
 KS> I'm not so sure it doesn't really derive from "fancy" as per "following
 KS> the fancy", a Regency era term for those with an interest in pugilistic
 KS> displays, or "pigeon fancier" for someone who raises and shows prize
 KS> pigeons.  It would be easy enough to shorten "fancier" to "fan", and
 KS> form a closer match to the current usage.

Come on, Kay; you've been to a convention or two, haven't you?

You see both kinds, plus the *really* wierd ones, if you get my drift.

Ook, ook, drool. <snicker>

Todd Sullivan

... "He who excuses himself accuses himself." --Gabriel Meurier

-*- ASTG 1.9

--- Spot 1.3a Unregistered
 * Origin: Todd's Spot in the Continuum (1:202/720.3)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 26 of 195
 From : Todd Sullivan                       1:202/720.3     .îí 26 .åâ 96 20:35
 To   : Steve Thomas
 Subj : Not to be seen:  Albatross!
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Elizabeth H. Penrose was kicking back and telling sea stories until Inspector
General Steve Thomas walked in and said, "Knock off with that Not to be seen and
get back to work!"  There was no choice but to shoot Steve.

 ST> The lines I liked the best were:

 ST> "It was the middle (bush) one!"
 ST>            and
 ST> "And this was the neighbor who told us where they (neighbors) were!"
 ST>  But my favorite skit is the 127th Annual Twit of the Year Best in
 ST> Show.
 ST> "And Nigel has run himself over...What a great twit!"

I'm still partial to, "Look matey; this bird wouldn't `VOOM!' if I ran four
thousand volts through it!"

and

"Shut up, you bitch; it was only a bit of fun!"

Todd Sullivan

... "What is a friend?  A soul dwelling in two bodies." --Aristotle

-*- ASTG 1.9

--- Spot 1.3a Unregistered
 * Origin: Todd's Spot in the Continuum (1:202/720.3)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 27 of 195
 From : Phill Ash                           1:275/160       .pä 28 .åâ 96 08:50
 To   : Don Bach
 Subj : STAR TREK SEXISM
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE 1.11+

 PA>         The upper-class, yes.  But have you noticed that remarkably
 PA>         little is heard of middle & lower-class Romans...

 DB> No middle class - that is a product of the Industrial Revolution.  The
 DB> lower class *IS* the servants and slaves.

        Nah...that's just what the historians want you to believe.  The
        Industrial Revolution *bloated* the middle-class, but during the
        days of the Roman Empire, somebody was in the middle <G>


Your pal:  PhlAsh
---
 þ Ùystertags v1.1 þ In a dark horse town, in the middle of the west
~~~ ReneWave v1.01 [NR]
--- Smile :)
 * Origin: * The Beast's Lair * (804)498-3070 * Va Beach VA * (1:275/160)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 28 of 195
 From : Jim May                             1:251/9         .òp 27 .åâ 96 19:26
 To   : CHRIS OGNIBEN
 Subj : Re: Star Trek Generations
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 -=> Quoting Chris Ogniben to Jim May <=-

 CO> EP story?  Exactlly what does EP mean, perhaps i could write the
 CO> story, if it's something that i am familiar with.  Since i am a sci fi
 CO> writer.

 EP stands for "Electronic Publishing", and is another media for
 presenting text. An EP program usually produces an executable file
 with a reader all set with your text. Some varieties can support
 graphics as well. The simpler ones merely create the executable
 file with the reader.

 I have a number of EP utilities and electronic books here on
 Programmer's Corner, and I will allways welcome contributions in
 the way of stories and articles that I can either display on-line
 or offer for download as text or complete books.

 I also offer a good selection of articles, files, and echos for the
 writing people.

 (Sorry - I think this is getting off topic here -- netmail me at
 1:251/9 if you wish to continue - or we could move it over to the
 Writing echo.)

 -Jim


... Put on a pot of coffee, I've got messages to read!
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

--- EzyQwk V1.10 01fa00fa
 * Origin: Programmer's Corner BBS, Halifax, NS(v32b/v42b) (1:251/9)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 29 of 195
 From : Kim Wheat                           1:275/102       .òp 27 .åâ 96 19:27
 To   : Chris Ogniben
 Subj : Star Trek
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
---<<*<<< Chris dazzled Buc Wheat with these words of wisdom!! >>>**>>----

 Chris!!!!!!!

 Wow! Guess you found where Mom hide the modem, uh??! :>

 CO> I don't agree, i think star trek voyager is great.

  That's ok, Chris....I have no problem with you thinking that V'ger
 is great. Go for it!

 CO> And that you and the other people that call themselves fans of star
 CO> trek.

 You didn't finish this sentence....or if you did, it don't make
 sense....please rephrase and resubmitt.

 CO> Really disgust me, since all you do is complain.  Instead to just
 CO> watch the shows and be entertained.

 Know the feeling, shipmate...V'ger pretty much disgusts me too!
 I've seen better entertainment watching grass grow!

 CO> I watch all the episodes of star trek
 CO> voyager, where only a few i might not have liked a lot, but, i do
 CO> still watch the series and enjoy watching most of it.  And as for

 You have a stronger stomach than good taste allows. Good for you,
 guy!

 CO> V'ger, and your defention where you want a star ship captain that has a
 CO> powerful ship that can destroy vger shows how stupid you are, and that
 CO> you are a moron, and a dork.  Since, you brought up a very stupid item,
 CO> that will never happen, just because you wanted to say it in public.  I

 Wow! Didn't realize Paramount was reading this echo and that my
 comments carried such weight!!! Okay, how's this....I hope Q shows
 up on V'ger and REFUSES to send them back home! <waiting in
 mock anticipation!>

 CO> think you should just not read in here anymore, since you are not a
 CO> true fan of sci fi.

 Well, you got one thing right, Chris...well actually two!!
  1) I don't like Sci-Fi
  2) STrek is Sci-Fi.

 Thanks! :)

 I knew it was too quiet in here for some reason, Chris! Pass me your
 phone number so I can suggest another hiding place for your Mom!

 Kim :)

___ Blue Wave/DOS v2.30

--- PCBoard (R) v15.22/M 10
 * Origin: SelectiveSource VirginiaBeach,VA 804 471 6776 (1:275/102)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 30 of 195
 From : Todd Sullivan                       1:202/720.3     .òp 27 .åâ 96 18:41
 To   : Chris Ogniben
 Subj : Gulliver's Travels
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Brion Lienhart was kicking back and telling sea stories until Inspector General
Chris Ogniben walked in and said, "Knock off with that Gulliver's Travels and
get back to work!"  There was no choice but to shoot Chris.

 CO>   The movie series was stupid.  Of course i didn't watch it, but, you
 CO> all know that it's not real.  And that it didn't acutally happen.  It
 CO> was all made up like a story book.  I didn't bother wasting my time to
 CO> watch it, not with great sci fi shows that are on.

If you had any idea of what Gulliver's Travels was about, you'd have said
nothing.

It is not meant as anything but political and social satire, disguised as an
adventure fantasy.

Todd Sullivan

... "A crust eaten in peace is better than a banquet partaken in
     anxiety." --Aesop

-*- ASTG 1.9

--- Spot 1.3a Unregistered
 * Origin: Todd's Spot in the Continuum (1:202/720.3)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 31 of 195
 From : Don Bach                            1:3632/65       .pä 28 .åâ 96 08:22
 To   : Barton Paul Levenson
 Subj : Re: Alien threats?
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 BPL> My own take on this is that civilizations probably develop in one of two
 BPL> ways -- colonizers, who think their race superior and
 BPL> want to spread through the Universe, fighting it out
 BPL> with whoever gets in their way, and non-colonizers,
 BPL> who try to stop the colonizers out of self-defense.
 BPL> The fact that we haven't been colonized means the
 BPL> antis hold the upper hand in this galaxy.  The best
 BPL> way for us to antagonize them would be to take on the
 BPL> colonizer mentality ourselves, and try to expand.
 BPL> THAT would bring on a very unpleasant first contact.

The Europeans (and eventually the U.S.) were colonizers once they had the
technology to reach other lands.  It indeed did bring on unpleasant contacts
with aborigines (American Indians, Africans, Indians, Polynesians, etc.).  The
strife between the aboriginal and colonial cultures still continues (racism is
one form).

I believe that once we get the technology to reach other worlds, we will take a
very colonial stance and repeat the same mistakes as the European Colonists.

Don


--- Maximus 3.01
 * Origin: No Regrets, Clinton, MS (601)924-8247 9P-5A (1:3632/65)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 32 of 195
 From : mitch obrecht                       1:285/66.98     .îí 26 .åâ 96 09:51
 To   : Aaron Turon
 Subj : What I want to talk about
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On (24 Feb 96) Aaron Turon wrote to Barton Paul Levenson...

 AT> I'd like to talk about STAR TREK Cya! ;)


 AT> --- Opus-CBCS 1.73a
 AT>  * Origin: Chipper Clipper * Scott me up beamy! * 941-745-56
 AT> (1:137/2.0)

Then let's talk Trek!  You start...


... 20y/o gay, single -- what else?  hmm... just ask?

--- PPoint 2.00
 * Origin: A Professional Point System (1:285/66.98)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 33 of 195
 From : mitch obrecht                       1:285/66.98     .îí 26 .åâ 96 09:54
 To   : all
 Subj : help!
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
I've heard several people talk about a story that's probably 10 years old
or more... the basis of this story is that there is someone in the armed
forces (air force, I think) who is hetero, and somehow gets transported
to the future (400 years or so, I think).  Everyone (or the majority) in this
future is gay or lesbian (even bi is considered a no-no) and in one part of
this story or book, the main character is making a speech in front of a
training group, and says "Yes, I'm straight, but don't hold it against me"

Can anybody out there tell me where I can find this? Or who it's by, the
title, or any information?  I've had almost 20 differant people tell me
that they have read it, highly recommend it, yet they cannot tell me
where I can find it, or any info...  Thanks!


--- PPoint 2.00
 * Origin: A Professional Point System (1:285/66.98)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 34 of 195
 From : Michael Harper                      1:123/414       .pä 28 .åâ 96 09:02
 To   : Frank Glover
 Subj : Star Trek Generations
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE 1.11+

 -=> Tossing back another tequila, Frank Glover told Michael Harper about

  Star Trek Generations...

 FG> Indeed he does. I still have an audio tape I made as he brought his
 FG> lunar module down to the surface on the Apollo 12 mission. Compared to
 FG> the few-words Armstrong and Aldrin, he kept an enthusiastic, running
 FG> commentary all the way down. Still, the comm officer's lines were
 FG> short, and one might not notice.

 Yeah, Conrad's always had a big mouth. Remember, most of these guys
 were of the Chuck Yeager school, and no matter what they were doing,
 they always sounded laconic and bored. Yeager could've been making love
 to half a dozen nymphomaniac coeds at Mach 3, and he'd still have
 sounded bored.

 FG> But I've since been told it was Thomas Kopache. Darned if he
 FG> doesn't *look* like Pete though, and we have the precedent of Mae
 FG> Jemison doing a cameo in a Next Generation episode as a transporter
 FG> operator....

 I'm not a bit surprised. Trek's always been popular with NASA
 personnel...


... Mind Like A Steel Trap - Rusty And Illegal In 37 States
--- Blue Wave/RA v2.12
 * Origin:  Weyr Galifrey - Memphis, TN  +1.901.685.0017 (1:123/414)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 35 of 195
 From : Michael Harper                      1:123/414       .pä 28 .åâ 96 09:02
 To   : Frank Swarbrick
 Subj : Dangerous Babes
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE 1.11+

 -=> Tossing back another tequila, Frank Swarbrick told Michael Harper about

  Dangerous Babes...

 FS> Is she from New Zealand?  I don't think so...  The show is shot there,
 FS> sure, but it's an American TV show, and she sure sounds American to
 FS> me.  I heard that neither Hercules nor Xena are even aired in New
 FS> Zealand.

 Nope, she's Enzedd. Has one kid, shares joint custody with her
 ex-husband. And she was already a star in New Zealand before Xena ever
 came about. I think the shows both air down there; I'll check.

... "Exciting, isn't it?" --Draal
--- Blue Wave/RA v2.12
 * Origin:  Weyr Galifrey - Memphis, TN  +1.901.685.0017 (1:123/414)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 36 of 195
 From : The Raven                           1:363/309       .òp 27 .åâ 96 00:51
 To   : Mark Jones
 Subj : Bred to Conquer
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 MJ> I know the feeling.  I don't think I could wade through Lord Of The
 MJ> Rings again, though I really enjoyed it at the time.
 MJ> So--who else *do* you dump on?  I'll show you mine....

 MJ> Alan Dean Foster, as I already mentioned.  I used to read his
 MJ> stuff, but I don't any longer.  He lost me when he published
 MJ> SPELLSINGER and I just never went back.

     Ah, I understand now.  I don't read the Spellsinger novels.  I read one
of them, thought it was cute but fluff, and never read any of the others.


 MJ> C. J. Cherryh.  By all accounts she is popular with both the
 MJ> critics and the public.  Which probably means that she's a good
 MJ> writer.  And certainly what I know of her stories *sounds* good.  But
 MJ> I've tried many times to read some of her stuff and I just can't.  It
 MJ> feels like hacking my way through the jungle with a machete (it was,
 MJ> in fact, her writing that led me to that description).

     Yah, I feel the same way.  But mostly my problem with Cherryh is that I
despise her as a person.  I went to a writer's seminar with her (well... not
*with* her, but you get the idea) and her attitude was "unless you've
published as many novels as I have, your opinions of other writer's work is
worth crap".  She *literally* told me, to my face, "Who the hell cares what
you think" during a supposed "open discussion" about a couple of stories.


 MJ> Stephen R. Donaldson.  I don't read his stuff.  I *never* read his
 MJ> stuff.  So while it may seem that I'm breaking a cardinal rule--never
 MJ> review a book you haven't read--plenty of friends have panned his
 MJ> writing.  And these are friends with tastes I a) know, and b) agree
 MJ> with; I feel no need to burn myself on that oven just to be *sure* it
 MJ> will burn me.  [Sadly, these friends all say he writes very well--its
 MJ> just that his "heroes" are pathetic creatures who invariably lack a
 MJ> backbone.]

     True enough.  I think Donaldson suffers from Tolkein's disease (a love of
his own sense of the grandiose).
     Besides the ones mentioned above (Cherryh and Donaldson), I do not read
(with reactions varying from simple avoidance to active shunning):
     a)  Piers Anthony:  This is more complicated than it looks on the
surface.  I like his historical and non-fiction, but hate his SF.
     b)  Steven Brust:  Similar reasons to Cherryh.  He did something rude and
uncalled for to me a while ago and I've been boycotting ever since.
     c)  L. Ron Hubbard:  Sure, Scientology was a great practical joke, but
his writing needs work.  To be basic, it sucks large wind.
     d)  Hickman and Weiss:  Do I really need to explain?

     I can probably think of a couple more later.  But I won't.

     Jack Butler



... "This isn't heaven!  This sucks!" -- Bob McKenzie
--- Blue Wave/DOS v2.20 [NR]
 * Origin: Forethought BBS -=- Orlando, FL -=- 407-679-6561 (1:363/309)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 37 of 195
 From : The Raven                           1:363/309       .òp 27 .åâ 96 06:04
 To   : Jeroen Jacobs
 Subj : 'bugs' in ST: Generations
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 JJ> -The klingons are getting de shield frequency of the Enterprise .Riker
 JJ> is seeking desperate solutions. Why didn't he changed the
 JJ> shield-frequency like he did in 'The best of both worlds' ??
 JJ> If somebody has found other mistakes (not necessarely in
 JJ> 'generations'), please let me know.

     In "The Search For Spock", Kruge remarks that the Enterprise easily
outguns the Bird of Prey.  Logically, the Enterprise-D does the same, even
with relatively modern (to a Next Generation starfleet member) Bird of Prey.
But instead of hitting the Bird of Prey as hard as possible and cracking
the Klingon's shields like an eggshell, the Enterprise barely responds to
the attack.

     I wanna know *why*...

     Jack Butler



... There is no greater loan than a sympathetic ear.
--- Blue Wave/DOS v2.20 [NR]
 * Origin: Forethought BBS -=- Orlando, FL -=- 407-679-6561 (1:363/309)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 38 of 195
 From : The Raven                           1:363/309       .òp 27 .åâ 96 06:07
 To   : Tommy Kellerman
 Subj : Alien threats?
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 MJ> 1.  They're an alien form of life.  They can't use our environment
 MJ> (and therefore have no compunctions about destroying it), but consider
 MJ> us a potential threat--we might get out and compete with them for
 MJ> resources.  So they eradicate us.

 TK> Well, haven't you considered the opportunity to cooperate? They get
 TK> something from us, and vice versa... They won't kick our asses before
 TK> they have gotten everything that they still haven't got, now IF, they
 TK> are the enemy.
 TK> But I think I'm following Frank's footsteps rather than yours(no pun
 TK> intended).

     And what if the aliens take a "red ants" view toward all other life?
They attack everything which is not another red ant.  Period.  No discussion
or cooperation occurs because it never occurs to the aliens that discussion
and cooperation is necessary.  Only attack.


 MJ> 2.  We are unwilling and/or unable to worship their god(s).  Maybe we
 MJ> find their religion silly.  Maybe we *can't* perform the proper
 MJ> rituals of worship because we don't have the physiology required.  In
 MJ> any case, our failure to worship is an unforgiveable sin--so they nuke
 MJ> us out of existence.

 TK> How do you know if they have a god? Maybe they don't have a religion
 TK> at all. But if they do in the way you're saying, I guess we're toast.

     We *are* speaking hypothetically, remember?  We don't know they have a
God.  But you are saying "there is no reason for any alien species to be
hostile to us without us doing something to them first".  Mark and I are
merely adding a small reply of "nonsense".
     You keep saying things like "If they were smart, they'd cooperate/guide/
train/work with us.  But what you don't seem to want to consider is that
there may not be any good reason for them to attack us from *our* point of
view, but from theirs, every reason in the world exists.
     Remember, to them, our point of view... our way of looking at things and
thinking them through... are irrelevant.  They need not operate from the same
prejudices and lines of thought as we do.

     Jack Butler



... We cannot direct the wind but we can adjust the sails.
--- Blue Wave/DOS v2.20 [NR]
 * Origin: Forethought BBS -=- Orlando, FL -=- 407-679-6561 (1:363/309)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 39 of 195
 From : The Raven                           1:363/309       .òp 27 .åâ 96 06:14
 To   : Nicolai Shapero
 Subj : Alien threats?
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 NS> Or they don't colonize worlds with intelligent life forms already
 NS> present, or they CAN'T colonize a system where the local lifeforms
 NS> haven't exploded outward into interstellar space already...(see David
 NS> Brin's collection, RIVER OF TIME for a possible explanation of that
 NS> variety...)

     Oooooh... that story spooked the hell out of me.  Good stuff.  I still
think the best thing in that collection was Thor vs. Captain America.

     Jack Butler



... "Chances are..." -- Abel the Minstrel
--- Blue Wave/DOS v2.20 [NR]
 * Origin: Forethought BBS -=- Orlando, FL -=- 407-679-6561 (1:363/309)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 40 of 195
 From : The Raven                           1:363/309       .òp 27 .åâ 96 06:18
 To   : Todd Sullivan
 Subj : Bs!!
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 TR>      Who was it who said "A fair fight is a fight I win"?

 TS> Sounds like any of the Heinlein books where Lazarus is featured. :^)

     Since I sent the original message, I found the source.  Teddy Roosevelt
said it.

     Jack Butler



... Read enclosed instructions carefully before opening.
--- Blue Wave/DOS v2.20 [NR]
 * Origin: Forethought BBS -=- Orlando, FL -=- 407-679-6561 (1:363/309)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 41 of 195
 From : The Raven                           1:363/309       .òp 27 .åâ 96 06:23
 To   : Kim Wheat
 Subj : Cybersex
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 BPL> I think I know what you're trying to say, but I think you're mistaken
 BPL> if you say sex can't be discussed seriously, under SF or otherwise.
 BPL> Some interesting comments on sex and human sexuality have come out of
 BPL> science fiction -- though usually books and not TV/movies.  Cf
 BPL> LeGuin's "The Left Hand of Darkness" or Philip Jose Farmer's "The
 BPL> Loverbirds" (very daring when it first came out).  Or anything by
 BPL> Heinlein after he became obsessed with sex.

 KW> To which you can add:
 KW> Griffith's AMMONITE
 KW> PJF's FLESH
 KW> Varley's STEEL BEACH

     Niven's "Ringworld Engineers"
     Halderman's "The Forever War"
     Vandenberg's "Alone in Darkness"

     Jack Butler



... Highlander II:  The Sickening
--- Blue Wave/DOS v2.20 [NR]
 * Origin: Forethought BBS -=- Orlando, FL -=- 407-679-6561 (1:363/309)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 42 of 195
 From : The Raven                           1:363/309       .òp 27 .åâ 96 06:26
 To   : Anders Danebo
 Subj : Cybersex
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 BW> And pray tell me just what is serious Science
 BW> Fiction????????.............. To you what may be serious Sci-Fi, may
 BW> very well to others be fun and games. Also to you talking about sex may
 BW> be boring and uninteresting, that's your perogative, but to others it
 BW> may very well be something completely different. ANd as to your comment
 BW> no one can get serious when sex is involved, WHy???]

 AD> Sex always invites a kind of childishness that almost always gets out
 AD> of hand and ends good discussions...Only my opinion but why speak
 AD> about sex when you can do it instead...Right or Wrong??

     Two points:

     1.  So far, there hasn't been any childishness, and the subject has
been bandied about off and on for a couple of years now.
     2.  And if you *can't* do it?

     Besides, we are talking about sex (not necessarily the actual act, but
the practicies, customs, and societal views) as featured in science fiction.
There have been some very interesting ideas involving sex created in some
very fine science fiction.
     If you have a problem with the subject matter, skip the messages dealing
with it.

     Jack Butler


... Living with a saint is more gruelling than being one.
--- Blue Wave/DOS v2.20 [NR]
 * Origin: Forethought BBS -=- Orlando, FL -=- 407-679-6561 (1:363/309)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 43 of 195
 From : Milo Zambisie                       1:138/258       .pä 28 .åâ 96 02:12
 To   : Chris Ogniben
 Subj : Re: Gulliver's Travels
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On Thu 15-Feb-1996 11:29a, Chris Ogniben said to Brion Lienhart:

CO>   The movie series was stupid.  Of course i didn't watch it, but, you
CO> all know that it's not real.  And that it didn't acutally happen.  It
CO> was all made up like a story book.  I didn't bother wasting my time to
CO> watch it, not with great sci fi shows that are on.

  So you're saying something that you haven't seen is stupid?  How do you know?
"You all know that it's not real"?  Do you think that people think that it was a
documentary?  "And that it didn't actually happen."?  By this am I to assume
that you think that the "great sci fi shows" you mentioned DID ACTUALLY HAPPEN?


  Chris Ogniben is an idiot.  Of course i've never met him, but, you all know
that he doesn't have a clue.  And that he's prejudice.  He babbles like a little
child.  I shouldn't have wasted my time by posting this to him, not with all the
more interesting and intelligent people here.


  THINK HAPPY THOUGHTS!!

--- Tagline Generation by Netrunners Entertainment.
 He's terminally inconvenienced, Jim.
--- CNet/3
 * Origin: Alpha's Attic - Tacoma, Wash. - (206)272-8083 (1:138/258)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 44 of 195
 From : Timothy H. Willis                   1:306/32        .òp 27 .åâ 96 11:13
 To   : Chris Ogniben
 Subj : Re: clarification
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
* Well, Chris Ogniben & Robert Lidgren fighting over the Ben-Wa Gerbils... *

 CO> I think that the women that are involved in writing sci fi is not
 CO> big deal to me.  But, in the world of sci fi, as long women don't play
 CO> the major role of president, and other high ranking stuff that is fine
 CO> with me.  Since i don't mind Janeway being a Captain of a star ship.

    -----misogynistic stuff deleted-----

    I've been wading through your posts, and just *had* to make
at least one reply to you.  First off, I'd read the article S. M.
Stirling wrote for Jim Baen titled "The Woman Warrior" and published in
Volume IV/Summer 1988 paperback anthology "New Destinies", edited by
Jim Baen ISBN: 0-671-65408-X, if I were you.  It may be enlightening,
though I do have some doubts here.
    Second:  I'd like to point out an historical figure for you
to go look up... Bodacia (I think that's the correct spelling), a
warrior/leader who did a pretty good job of whipping the snot out of the
Romans who had invaded Britian.
    Your outdated and bigoted attitude toward women is an opinion
you do have every right to hold... which does not mean it is a correct
one, however.
    I, for one, am extremely gratified to see this trend of writers
creating strong, independent, and competent females which has grown
over the past decade or so.  I've always hated the image of the helpless
woman, cowering and whining in the background at the male had to battle
the bad-guy/beastie/whatever.  It's foolish, for one thing... and it
loads an enormous responsibility on men which is unfair, at the least.
    I know that if I were locked in mortal combat with some badnasty,
I'd prefer my female companion be able to fight alongside me...
    As for good, strong female characters in SF, I recommend the
following:
    The Honor Harrington series, by David Weber
    "The Deed of Paksenarion(sp?)" trilogy by Elizabeth Moon
    "The Cage" (and others) by S. M. Stirling & Shirley Meier
    And, for non-fic, I recommend "Women in War" by Shelly Saywell...
All are either in print, currently, or can be found in used book stores.

    Timothy H. Willis

... If you would know a man, observe how your cat treats him.
--- FMail/386 1.0g
 * Origin: The Forum BBS-Ft Collins,CO *NODE @* (970)225-2627 (1:306/32)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 45 of 195
 From : Timothy H. Willis                   1:306/32        .òp 27 .åâ 96 12:17
 To   : Chris Ogniben
 Subj : Re: Star Trek Generations
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
* Well, Chris Ogniben & Jim May fighting over the Ben-Wa Gerbils... *

 CO> EP story?  Exactlly what does EP mean, perhaps i could write the
 CO> story, if it's something that i am familiar with.  Since i am a sci fi
 CO> writer.

    Nicolai... pardon me for the following blast.

    Okay Chris... you claim to be a writer?  Cite your published
work.  Otherwise, call yourself a writer wannabe.  As a person who is
struggling to sell what I write, and one who *does not* presume to declare
myself to be a writer, until I make that sale, I take umbrage at your
declaration above.
    I'm also getting tired of the misogynistic nonsense you post
up all too frequently, along with your not quoting back part of the
message(s) you're responding to and your little temper tantrums.
    Mellow out...
    Now, to keep this on-topic:  Do you read SF?  If so, what?
Have you ever read any of the works of, say, the late Robert Adams?  Or
possibly Robert Heinlein?  (Or the others I mentioned in my other post?)
Or, are you just a TV watcher?

    Timothy H. Willis

... How about some quotes that SUPPORT your view ? Good luck.
--- FMail/386 1.0g
 * Origin: The Forum BBS-Ft Collins,CO *NODE @* (970)225-2627 (1:306/32)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 46 of 195
 From : Dean Sweatman                       1:396/40        .åò 29 .åâ 96 09:27
 To   : All
 Subj : The vision people strike
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: InterEcho 1.17 6E010867
 * Crossposted from: L_FIAWOL

Ä Area: 218 ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
  Msg#: 2                                            Date: 29 Feb 96  07:46:00
  From: Dean Sweatman
    To: All
  Subj: VISIONS '96 D.C.: A SCI-F
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

VISIONS '96 D.C.: A SCI-FI SUPER SHOW!

March 23 & March 24 *** 10 am - 7 pm daily

The Expo Center at the Ramada
8500 Anapolis Road
New Carrollton MD
301-459-6700

Guests: Ethan Phillips "NEELIX" of Star Trek Voyager
        Terry Farrell "DAX" of Star Trek Deep Space Nine
        James Doohan "SCOTTY" of Star Trek & Next Generation
        David Prowse "DARTH VADER" of Star Wars
        Warwick Davis "WICKET" of Star Wars & "WILLOW" of
        the film "Willow"
        Mark Goddard "MAJOR WEST" of Lost in Space
        World Famous Illusionists GIFFORD & ROY

Captain's Chair from Star Trek Generations will be available for Photos

ASK ABOUT THE SATURDAY NIGHT FORMAL RECEPTION WITH THE STARS!

General admission $18.00  Children (5 - 12) $ 10.00

ADVANCE TICKETS GO ON SALE 2/23/96 at 10:00 am. Call 508-255-6712.

Call 508-240-3557 for More Information

--
CJF Enterprises
PO Box 9075                 email: VGCA29A@PRODIGY.COM Fall River MA 02720-0002
508-646-1324 Fax: 508-646-1325

 ** Keeper of the Captain's Chair off the Bridge of the USS Enterprises  **

Anyone want to hazzard a wild guess what kind of money they will be asking for
this event??  Don't get me wrong Babs and I enjoyed our stay at the last trip
that they made to New Orleans but with their 9 hour window per day getting to
hear each of the guests will not be easy unless you plan on spending both days
at the show.

They added 2 hours per day and increased the price by $2.00 per day to cover the
extra time but adding the Reception on Saturday Night should make up for any
failings that they might have had in giving the Customers a break.

I would love to know what the final tab would be for this one.

Fiawol

... Dean Sweatman's Continuing and Relentless quest toward Fuggheadedness

___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20 [NR]


--- InterEcho 1.17
 * Origin: REUNION BBS, Harahan, La., USA (504) 738-5162 Try God (1:396/40)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 47 of 195
 From : Charles Daniels                     1:203/42        .òp 27 .åâ 96 15:51
 To   : Chris Baugh
 Subj : femist appearances?
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

>CD> The men with breasts have no control over that aspect (or any
>CD> other aspect) of the genetic make-up that instructed their
>CD> bodies how to form. The application of makeup is alterable.

> So, your discussion concerned how makeup can be altered, but make-up
> cannot be altered. <g>

I was saying that comparing genetic make-up to the sort of makeup you
can buy at any dime store.  Of course it does sound rather odd when put like the
above. :)

--- FMail 0.98
 * Origin: Deep Thought: RedDwarf,ST,SF, FREE MEAT!  916-452-9501 (1:203/42)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 48 of 195
 From : Nicolai Shapero                     1:102/524       .åò 29 .åâ 96 05:20
 To   : Chris Ogniben
 Subj : Nuclear
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Feb 14 16:09>, Chris Ogniben (1:2604/568) wrote to Nicolai Shapero:

 CO>two, we use weapons like guns and rifles to do our killing.  I
 CO>bet if
 CO>you put a human man or woman in front of a wild animal where he
 CO>or she
 CO>is weaponless, i bet that the animal is going to win.

Not likely; part of our human-ness is that we're tool users.  And a weapon is
just another tool.  Of course, we're also one of the larger animals on the
planet, and when in decent condition are able to do substantial damage WITHOUT
extra weapons (of course, it requires training to be able to do this, but we're
also INTELLIGENT animals).

 CO>So, i say
 CO>that
 CO>the human race are gutless COWARDS, and the animal kingdom should
 CO>be
 CO>the ones that rule this earth before we did.

Cowards because they'd use anything they've got in the way of an advantage in
order to stay alive?  Hello?  Are we on the same planet, here?

-- Nicolai Shapero, the Mad Russian Sysop of StormGate Aerie

--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 49 of 195
 From : Nicolai Shapero                     1:102/524       .åò 29 .åâ 96 05:24
 To   : Chris Ogniben
 Subj : AHEM!
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Feb 14 16:09>, Chris Ogniben (1:2604/568) wrote to Nicolai Shapero:

 CO>every day.  And the dinosaurs would rule the planet.  But, since
 CO>there
 CO>era has ended, and ours is going to end soon.  That i believe
 CO>that for
 CO>anyone like you people, that are stupid.

Well, then, after this last comment, think of the following as "evolution in
action":

CHRIS, YOU HAVE JUST EARNED A 90 DAY SUSPENSION FROM THIS CONFERENCE.

Bye bye.

-- Nicolai Shapero, Moderator of the SFFAN echo

--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 50 of 195
 From : Nicolai Shapero                     1:102/524       .åò 29 .åâ 96 05:29
 To   : Chris Ogniben
 Subj : Re: Star Trek
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Feb 17 17:01>, Chris Ogniben (1:2604/568) wrote to Anne Swasey:

 CO>Hey you stinking maggot!!!!! You are a TRAITOR to the world of
 CO>MAN..
 CO>You stinking scumbag, good for nothing piece of crap.  Yeah, your
 CO>crap,

No, I guess you need more than 90 days "invitation to the world".  Make it six
months.

-- Nicolai Shapero, Moderator of the SFFAN echo

--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 51 of 195
 From : Kay Shapero                         1:102/524       .åò 29 .åâ 96 08:38
 To   : Todd Sullivan
 Subj : Fan/fanatic/fancier
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Feb 26 20:30>, Todd Sullivan (1:202/720.3) wrote to Kay Shapero:

 KS> pigeons.  It would be easy enough to shorten "fancier" to "fan", and
 KS> form a closer match to the current usage.

 TS>Come on, Kay; you've been to a convention or two, haven't you?

 TS>You see both kinds, plus the *really* wierd ones, if you get my
 TS>drift.

Of course - and I'm sure those who followed the fancy in Regency times had their
share of utter wackos too.  I've been to a lot of conventions, and served on
concoms (two at the moment), and have found fandom to be essentially a culture,
like any other.  A place where "weird" is a complement, because it usually is
used to mean "imaginative" or "creative".

--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 52 of 195
 From : David Durgee                        1:109/458       .ÿò 01 .àp 96 06:25
 To   : Mitch Obrecht
 Subj : Help!
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: InterEcho 1.14 6E011108
In a message dated 02-2696, Mitch Obrecht said to All:

MO>I've heard several people talk about a story that's probably 10 years old
MO>or more... the basis of this story is that there is someone in the armed
MO>forces (air force, I think) who is hetero, and somehow gets transported
MO>to the future (400 years or so, I think).  Everyone (or the majority) in
MO>this future is gay or lesbian (even bi is considered a no-no) and in one
MO>part of this story or book, the main character is making a speech in
MO>front of a training group, and says "Yes, I'm straight, but don't hold it
MO>against me"

Sounds like "The Forever War" by Joe Haldeman to me.

Dave
___
 * MR/2 2.22 NR * Before there was a plastics industry there was petroleum
waste.


--- InterEcho 1.14
 * Origin: The Shoreline BBS  - (301) 946-2771 - Silver Spring, MD (1:109/458)


Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 53 of 195
 From : Brion Lienhart                      1:213/700.2     .åò 29 .åâ 96 09:08
 To   : Chris Ogniben
 Subj : Gulliver's Travels
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On Thu Feb 15, Chris Ogniben said to Brion Lienhart:

 -CO>  The movie series was stupid.  Of course i didn't watch it, but, you
 -CO>all know that it's not real.  And that it didn't acutally happen.  It
 -CO>was all made up like a story book.  I didn't bother wasting my time to
 -CO>watch it, not with great sci fi shows that are on.

If you ever wondered why people don't like you this is it. I don't think I've
ever seen a single message from you that was even civil. If you the only way you
interact with other people is to insult them, don't be suprised when people
don't react positively to you.




--- QM v1.31
 * Origin: Ministry of Peace - Carson City, NV (1:213/700.2)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 54 of 195
 From : Brion Lienhart                      1:213/700.2     .åò 29 .åâ 96 09:10
 To   : BOB NIGHTINGALE
 Subj : Star Trek Generations
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On Sat Feb 24, BOB NIGHTINGALE said to CHRIS CARTER:

 -BN>What I want to know is what was the weapon system that Riker used to
 -BN>blow holes in the Klingons?  It looked like a swarm of mini-torpedoes.

It was the Wave-motion Phaser. They borrowed it from the Yamamato.



--- QM v1.31
 * Origin: Ministry of Peace - Carson City, NV (1:213/700.2)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 55 of 195
 From : Steve Thomas                        1:279/27        .ÿò 01 .àp 96 06:49
 To   : Todd Sullivan
 Subj : Python replies
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Good ones!  One more:

"Ginger, are you a poof?"

"I should certainly say not!!!"

"Good lad!  Funny, he looks like one."

                                 --Steve

--- PCBoard (R) v15.22/M 2
 * Origin: <<*> Blue Powder <*>> þ St. Albans, WV þ 304-727-6733 (1:279/27)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 56 of 195
 From : David Durgee                        1:109/458       .ÿò 01 .àp 96 16:58
 To   : The Raven
 Subj : Cybersex
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: InterEcho 1.14 6E011108
In a message dated 02-2796, The Raven said to Kim Wheat:

 BPL> I think I know what you're trying to say, but I think you're mistaken
 BPL> if you say sex can't be discussed seriously, under SF or otherwise.
 BPL> Some interesting comments on sex and human sexuality have come out of
 BPL> science fiction -- though usually books and not TV/movies.  Cf
 BPL> LeGuin's "The Left Hand of Darkness" or Philip Jose Farmer's "The
 BPL> Loverbirds" (very daring when it first came out).  Or anything by
 BPL> Heinlein after he became obsessed with sex.

 KW> To which you can add:
 KW> Griffith's AMMONITE
 KW> PJF's FLESH
 KW> Varley's STEEL BEACH

TR>     Niven's "Ringworld Engineers"
TR>     Halderman's "The Forever War"
TR>     Vandenberg's "Alone in Darkness"

and Sturgeon's "Venus Plus X"

Dave
___
 * MR/2 2.22 NR * 186,000/mps.  It's not just a good idea.  It's the law.


--- InterEcho 1.14
 * Origin: The Shoreline BBS  - (301) 946-2771 - Silver Spring, MD (1:109/458)


Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 57 of 195
 From : Rod Mammitzsch                      1:2424/1313     .åò 29 .åâ 96 18:42
 To   : Dave Maclean
 Subj : Sci fi
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Hey there?  What is the club?  And I too am a member of an SF group..but we deal
mainly with British Sci-Fi...interested?
TTYL!

--- Xenolink 1.981, XEmacs 1.2
 * Origin: Mater Susperiorum, Mater Lachrymarum, Mater Tenebrarum (1:2424/1313)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 58 of 195
 From : Richard Sarner                      1:271/236       .ÿò 01 .àp 96 11:11
 To   : Chris Baugh
 Subj : Re: looking for
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE 1.11+
Did the guy have stars on his forehead? And harps and riddles played an intregal
part of his transformation? I think you may be thinking of the Riddlemaster of
Hed trilogy by Patricia McPhillip. Riddlemaster of Hed, Harpist in the Wind,
Heir of Sea and Fire. They are among my favorite books of all time.

        'A harp strung with wind, for a man with no hands to play it.'

  ...Richard

--- GEcho 1.11+
 * Origin: THE TIME MACHINE (804)599-6401 TRAVEL THE PORTALS! (1:271/236)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 59 of 195
 From : Phill Ash                           1:275/160       .ÿò 01 .àp 96 10:02
 To   : Mitch Obrecht
 Subj : help!
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE 1.11+
From astride a Pale Horse, ùANATúô heard...

 MO> I've heard several people talk about a story that's probably 10 years
 MO> old or more... the basis of this story is that there is someone in the
 MO> armed forces (air force, I think) who is hetero, and somehow gets
 MO> transported to the future (400 years or so, I think).  Everyone (or the
 MO> majority) in this future is gay or lesbian (even bi is considered a
 MO> no-no) and in one part of this story or book, the main character is
 MO> making a speech in front of a training group, and says "Yes, I'm
 MO> straight, but don't hold it against me"
 MO> Can anybody out there tell me where I can find this? Or who it's by,
 MO> the title, or any information?  I've had almost 20 differant people
 MO> tell me that they have read it, highly recommend it, yet they cannot
 MO> tell me where I can find it, or any info...  Thanks!

        "The Forever War" by Haldeman (Joe, I think)


Your pal:  PhlAsh
---
 þ Ùystertags v1.1 þ They appear at the crossroads at once in the future
~~~ ReneWave v1.01 [NR]
--- Smile :)
 * Origin: * The Beast's Lair * (804)498-3070 * Va Beach VA * (1:275/160)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 60 of 195
 From : Chris Baugh                         1:105/290.5     .åò 29 .åâ 96 01:48
 To   : Frank Glover
 Subj : 'bugs' in ST: Generations
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 FG> The lighting wasn't too good either. Looked like sodium vapor
 FG> street lamps...

Did it look to you like 10-forward was all yellow, rather than a
white room?

--- PPoint 1.98
 * Origin: - (1:105/290.5)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 61 of 195
 From : Sharpshooter                        1:260/158       .ÿò 01 .àp 96 23:12
 To   : MICHAEL HARPER
 Subj : Star Trek Generations
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
MH> Yeah, Conrad's always had a big mouth. Remember, most of these guys
MH> were of the Chuck Yeager school, and no matter what they were doing,
MH> they always sounded laconic and bored. Yeager could've been making love
MH> to half a dozen nymphomaniac coeds at Mach 3, and he'd still have
MH> sounded bored.

That's not boredom, it's professionalism. Hollering into a
voice-actuated microphone is NOT conducive to efficient radio
communications. This is something that's very difficult to learn:
keeping emotion out of your voice when speaking over a comm circuit, for
the sake of efficiency and the safety of yourself and the others on the
mission. It takes training and practice, something that these astronauts
had plenty of before even leaving terra firma.
---
 þ SLMR 2.0 þ BATF: Bastards Authorized to Take Freedoms
 * Origin: The Nighthawk BBS - WNY USA - V.34 (1:260/158)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 62 of 195
 From : Chris Baugh                         1:105/290.5     .ÿò 01 .àp 96 22:27
 To   : Nicolai Shapero
 Subj : shore leave
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 NS> No, I guess you need more than 90 days "invitation to the
 NS> world". Make it six months.

Thank you kindly, good sir!

--- PPoint 1.98
 * Origin: - (1:105/290.5)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 63 of 195
 From : Nicolai Shapero                     1:102/524       .ÿò 01 .àp 96 07:32
 To   : Milo Zambisie
 Subj : Re: Gulliver's Travels
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Feb 28 02:12>, Milo Zambisie (1:138/258@fido) wrote to Chris Ogniben:

 MZ>  Chris Ogniben is an idiot.  Of course i've never met him, but,
 MZ>you all know that he doesn't have a clue.  And that he's
 MZ>prejudice.  He babbles like a little child.  I shouldn't have
 MZ>wasted my time by posting this to him, not with all the more
 MZ>interesting and intelligent people here.

AHEM!  Personal attacks are strictly verbotten on this conference.  You have
been warned.

-- Nicolai Shapero, Moderator of the SFFAN echo

--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 64 of 195
 From : Nicolai Shapero                     1:102/524       .ÿò 01 .àp 96 07:34
 To   : Timothy H. Willis
 Subj : Re: Star Trek Generations
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Feb 27 12:17>, Timothy H. Willis (1:306/32) wrote to Chris Ogniben:

 TH>  Okay Chris... you claim to be a writer?  Cite your published
 TH>work.  Otherwise, call yourself a writer wannabe.

I think that you're confusing writer with published writer.  And if you're
interested in my credentials:  OTHER SUNS, published in September 1983 by FGU
(SFRPG, 95,000 words), ALDERSON YARDS SHIPBOOK, published in 1984 or 85 (forget
exact date, now) by FGU (SFRPG, roughly 7500 words), and LUNA, THE EMPIRE, AND
THE STARS (short story, appeared in THE DRAGON sometime between 1984 and 1986,
roughly 3500 words).  And yes, I'm still at it (second edition of OTHER SUNS is
due out "any time now"...and is around 150,000 words).

-- Nicolai Shapero, the Mad Russian Sysop of StormGate Aerie

--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 65 of 195
 From : Kay Shapero                         1:102/524       .ÿò 01 .àp 96 18:33
 To   : Timothy H. Willis
 Subj : Re: Star Trek Generations
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Feb 27 12:17>, Timothy H. Willis (1:306/32) wrote to Chris Ogniben:

 TH>work.  Otherwise, call yourself a writer wannabe.  As a person
 TH>who is struggling to sell what I write, and one who *does not* presume
 TH>to declare myself to be a writer, until I make that sale,

But you are a writer.  You're just an unpublished writer at the moment.  When
you get your work published, you'll be a published writer.  But still a writer.
Like all of the arts, you do what you do - whether or not you get paid for it is
only relevant to your pocketbook and perhaps your status in your art, but not to
the name.

--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 66 of 195
 From : Michael Harper                      1:123/10        .pä 28 .åâ 96 08:22
 To   : Tommy Kellerman
 Subj : BS!!
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 -=> Tossing back another tequila, Tommy Kellerman told Frank Glover about

  BS!!...

 TK>  Ever seen the movie "Dune"? The Harkonnens are crueller than any
 TK>  humans I've
 TK>  seen in fiction, installing "heart plugs" and so on...

 FG>    I've seen the movie, but I'm not otherwise familiar with the Dune
 FG> universe. However, my understanding is that they *are* descended from
 FG> Earth humans. And those implants were done intentionally to one's self,
 FG> for some reason....

 TK> Well, they were implanted to give the Harkonnens power over their
 TK> people. Do you know if there's a sequel, or is that too much hoping
 TK> for?

 No sequel. Not now, not ever. Universal lost money on DUNE, mostly
 because of their own stupidity in promotion. David Lynch came up with a
 lot of the Harkonnen grotesqueries, mostly for effect. Both of you,
 read the book. The film was a pretty faithful adaptation, but not
 faithful enough for my money. I'd far rather have seen Jodorowsky
 finish his version back in the early Seventies, but he couldn't get the
 backing. A pity, really. His production designer was H. R. Giger...


... Do not judge a book by its movie.
--- RA/FD/FMail
 * Origin: The Eclectic Fox -- Memphis TN  (901)327-1008 (1:123/10)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 67 of 195
 From : Barton Paul Levenson                1:129/26        .ÿò 01 .àp 96 21:02
 To   : Aaron Turon
 Subj : What I want to talk about
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
I haven't seen Voyager, and I've seen only 2 episodes of TNG -- one fairly
interesting one about Klingon culture, and one truly dumb one with a soap-opera
plot (human on board marries E.T. with obnoxious mother-in-law).  But I've seen
every episode of the first series.  Former Trekkie, God help me.  I've got
George Takei's signature ("Galactic greetings!").

--- Maximus 3.01
 * Origin: SoundingBoard, Pittsburgh PA (1:129/26)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 68 of 195
 From : Barton Paul Levenson                1:129/26        .ÿò 01 .àp 96 21:04
 To   : Chris Baugh
 Subj : TERAFORMING
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
The problems with the Moon are mainly the lack of air and the month-long
rotational period.  Both could be corrected, temporarily, by bashing ice
asteroids from the outer system into Luna's equator.  But that would give it an
ammonia-water atmosphere.  Some kind of genetically engineered bacteria would be
needed to transform the atmosphere to a breathable one.

After analyzing the problems involved, I suggested that Mars would be a lot
easier to terraform.  It already rotates quickly, and it's got some water of its
own.

--- Maximus 3.01
 * Origin: SoundingBoard, Pittsburgh PA (1:129/26)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 69 of 195
 From : Barton Paul Levenson                1:129/26        .ÿò 01 .àp 96 21:06
 To   : Dion G Nethercott
 Subj : RE: STAR TREK SEXISM
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
"Probably because the parents never spent time with their kids."

You might well be right.

--- Maximus 3.01
 * Origin: SoundingBoard, Pittsburgh PA (1:129/26)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 70 of 195
 From : Barton Paul Levenson                1:129/26        .ÿò 01 .àp 96 21:06
 To   : Don Bach
 Subj : Re: Alien threats?
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
I tend to doubt it, unless we happened to find people less advanced than
ourselves.  The average civilization out there could be 2.5 billion years old,
so trying to take over one of their planets would be like a highly motivated
group of killer chimpanzees trying to take over Nairobi -- no contest.

--- Maximus 3.01
 * Origin: SoundingBoard, Pittsburgh PA (1:129/26)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 71 of 195
 From : Barton Paul Levenson                1:129/26        .ÿò 01 .àp 96 21:10
 To   : Chris Ogniben
 Subj : Nuclear
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
It depends on how you define "better."  Humans are superior if the criterion is
encephalization (E.Q. 7.3 versus only 5.8 for the next most encephalized, the
dolphin Tursiops truncatus), or language skills.  If you consider speed, then
cheetahs are the "best" land animal.  For fecundity, nothing beats bacteria.

--- Maximus 3.01
 * Origin: SoundingBoard, Pittsburgh PA (1:129/26)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 72 of 195
 From : Barton Paul Levenson                1:129/26        .ÿò 01 .àp 96 21:14
 To   : Mitch Obrecht
 Subj : help!
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
The book is "The Forever War" (1973) by Joe Haldeman.  It was partly social
satire; Haldeman, a Viet Nam vet, hated the army.  It was also a parody of the
Heinlein juvenile, "Starship Troopers," featuring many of the same themes --
spacesuits that augment your physical strength; a "paradise planet" for R&R,
etc.  Heinlein and Haldeman often clashed over military-vs-peace issues but seem
to have gotten along well together on a personal level.

--- Maximus 3.01
 * Origin: SoundingBoard, Pittsburgh PA (1:129/26)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 73 of 195
 From : Barton Paul Levenson                1:129/26        .óá 02 .àp 96 07:03
 To   : Timothy H. Willis
 Subj : Re: clarification
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Boudicca, or Boadicea in Latin.  An amazing and formidable woman; I've always
been sorry she didn't succeed.

My own "Shila the Huntress" has a female protagonist, but I don't know if it
will ever be published, alas...

--- Maximus 3.01
 * Origin: SoundingBoard, Pittsburgh PA (1:129/26)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 74 of 195
 From : Barton Paul Levenson                1:129/26        .óá 02 .àp 96 07:04
 To   : Timothy H. Willis
 Subj : Re: Star Trek Generations
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
I think of myself as an SF and fantasy writer, though I've only had one short
story published to date ("Twenty Peasants," _Marion Zimmer Bradley's Fantasy
Magazine,_ August '91).  As long as I go on without being able to sell anything,
I can at least call myself an amateur writer.  If I make another sale, I'll be a
professional.

--- Maximus 3.01
 * Origin: SoundingBoard, Pittsburgh PA (1:129/26)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 75 of 195
 From : Kevin Ahearn                        1:109/104       .óá 02 .àp 96 18:25
 To   : Nicolai Shapero
 Subj : Re: SFRPG
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 NS> 1984 and 1986, roughly 3500 words).  And yes, I'm still
 NS> at it (second edition of OTHER SUNS is due out "any
 NS> time now"...and is around 150,000 words).

An RPG by our esteemed moderator?  Cool!  Let us all know when it comes out.

--Kevin


--- Maximus/2 3.01
 * Origin: ShanErin (1:109/104)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 76 of 195
 From : Frank Swarbrick                     1:104/825       .ÿò 01 .àp 96 18:29
 To   : Chris Ogniben
 Subj : Gulliver's Travels
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12  92-0022
On 02-15-96  11:29 my Very Good Friend Chris Ogniben said:

 CO> The movie series was stupid.  Of course i didn't watch it, but, you
 CO> all know that it's not real.  And that it didn't acutally happen.  It
 CO> was all made up like a story book.  I didn't bother wasting my time to
 CO> watch it, not with great sci fi shows that are on.

And science fiction is real?  Just exactly what world do you live in
anyway, Chris?  How can you say it was stupid if you didn't even watch
it?  It was quite delightful, actually.

        Frank

... No one can hear when you're Screaming in Digital!
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12
 * Origin: The Bailey Information Exchange BBS, 28.8k v.fc  (1:104/825.0)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 77 of 195
 From : Marco Catalano                      2:2802/152.3    .pä 28 .åâ 96 14:01
 To   : Jeroen Jacobs
 Subj : 'bugs' in ST: Generations
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Hello Jeroen!


Thursday February 22 1996, Jeroen Jacobs writes to All:

 JJ> recently: I sawa list with the mistakes in Star Trek : generations. Here
 JJ> it comes:

---------- Message Cut -----------

 JJ> If somebody has found other mistakes (not necessarely in
 JJ> 'generations'),
 JJ> please let me know.

How about the solar probe?
It was launched and almost immidiately impacted on the sun. A probe that small
couldn't have warp capability.
Let alone that, when the probe started to dampen the sun, it immidiately became
darker. An 'M' class planet or moon must be several light-minutes away at
mimimun. Like our own planet, the sunlight takes about 8 minutes to reach us.



Greetings from Marco
BYE!




--- FMail/386 1.02
 * Origin: 61 Cygni. There's life Jim! But not as we know it. (2:2802/152.3)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 78 of 195
 From : Marco Catalano                      2:2802/152.3    .ÿò 01 .àp 96 09:21
 To   : Tam Phan
 Subj : Sliders!
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Hello Tam!


Monday February 26 1996, Tam Phan writes to All:

 TP> Sliders is back on FOX! This Friday, before X-Files.

Can you tell me if I can receive FOX with a dish, Tam?
I live in the Netherlands so if Fox is transmitting on the ASTRA satellite it
must be possible to get it.


Greetings from Marco
BYE!



... If at first you don't succeed, destroy all evidence that you tried.

--- FMail/386 1.02
 * Origin: Zeta Reticuli. There's life, Jim! But not as... (2:2802/152.3)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 79 of 195
 From : Mark Jones                          1:105/302.47    .åò 29 .åâ 96 23:09
 To   : The Raven
 Subj : Star Trek Generations
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On (18 Feb 96) The Raven wrote to Frank Glover...

 TR> I've thought about it and I've thought about it, and it seems to
 TR> me that this is probably the most likely of all scenarios if Trek
 TR> was real. The Galaxy class was supposed to have an operational
 TR> lifetime of... what? Thirty or forty years? If I remember right,
 TR> the -D had just come off the line, so to speak, when the series
 TR> began.

   ...and they should be able to slap one together in very short
order.  Even if they can't replicate the entire ship in one fell swoop
(in a giant space-station sized replicator), they *can* replicate all
the individual parts.  And the parts will all be *exactly* identical
right down to the molecular level.
   As long as you can shovel raw materials into the hopper, you can
churn out parts endlessly.


--- PPoint 1.78
 * Origin: Folcroft Sanitarium (hsmith@cure.com) (1:105/302.47)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 80 of 195
 From : Mark Jones                          1:105/302.47    .åò 29 .åâ 96 23:16
 To   : Dion G Nethercott
 Subj : NUCLEAR BS
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On (22 Feb 96) Dion G Nethercott wrote to Chris Ogniben...

 DG>  possible alternatives:
 DG>     *  wave motion - use kinetic energy from the sea.

   Sure.  If you live near the sea.  And you're only interested in
running a low-energy home.  Try running an industrial civilization on
this...if you don't mind watching it collapse.  (And if it collapses
it is virtually certain that everyone in this echo will be dead within
a year or two--two many people, too little food.)

 DG>     *  solar       - a field of parabolic, computer controlled
 DG>                     mirrors focused on a water
 DG>                     tank produces steam. (has been done, mirrors
 DG>                     produced temps of around 2000 deg C )

   Sure.  During the day.  If it isn't too overcast.  And if you
aren't trying to run an industrial civilization this way.

 DG>     *  watermills  - like windmills but in the gulf stream or
 DG>                      something.

   This one is actually viable--if you include hydro-power from dams
and turbines...but I think we've pretty much already done this
everywhere its viable (at least in the USA).  [Environmental side
effects do exist--declining salmon runs, for instance.]

 DG>     *  go back to hunter/gather society ;)

   No, thanks.  I like living a high-tech industrial civilization with
modern medicine, communication, etc.

 DG>     *  other suggestions welcome...

   Well, fusion would be nice.  Cold fusion would be ideal.  Or even
some completely unexpected source of virtually limitless power we have
no inkling about today.  Maybe tomorrow....

--- PPoint 1.78
 * Origin: Folcroft Sanitarium (hsmith@cure.com) (1:105/302.47)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 81 of 195
 From : James Walton                        1:129/260       .óá 02 .àp 96 12:00
 To   : Chris Baugh
 Subj : Re: looking for
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 CB> It was set in an island nation with a vaguely medieval /
 CB> Rennaissance times.  The hero, from a humble dairy farming family
 CB> (in book 1), had various adventures - including being trained (in
 CB> book 2) by some kind of wizard in some kind of enchanted forest in
 CB> the techniques of finding out what the trees were thinking,
 CB> temporarily becoming animals, etc. The quest eventually took him
 CB> back home (in book 3) for a grand show-down with some evil guy,

Sounds a little like the Riddle Master of Hed series by Patricia McKilip (sp)
Not exactly, though.





--- Via Silver Xpress V4.00 SW12427
 * Origin: ConFluence '96:  Return to Mars! (1:129/260)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 82 of 195
 From : James Walton                        1:129/260       .óá 02 .àp 96 12:07
 To   : Mitch Obrecht
 Subj : Re: help!
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 MO> old or more... the basis of this story is that there is someone in the
 MO> armed forces (air force, I think) who is hetero, and somehow gets
 MO> transported to the future (400 years or so, I think).  Everyone (or the
 MO> majority) in this future is gay or lesbian (even bi is considered a
 MO> no-no) and in one part of this story or book, the main character is
 MO> making a speech in front of a training group, and says "Yes, I'm
 MO> straight, but don't hold it against me"

There is a book called "The Forever War" by Joe Haldeman.  The main character
spends a lot of time traveling at the speed of light, so Earth ages a couple
hundred years while he is away.  He is placed in command of a group of
soldier from his "future."  They call him "The Old Queer" because he is
hetero and they are all gay.  Being gay was in vogue because it didn't create
children.





--- Via Silver Xpress V4.00 SW12427
 * Origin: ConFluence '96:  Return to Mars! (1:129/260)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 83 of 195
 From : Ken Mayes                           1:393/7         .óá 02 .àp 96 10:38
 To   : Brion Lienhart
 Subj : Re: Star Trek Generations
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On Thu 29-Feb-1996  9:10a, Brion Lienhart said to Bob Nightingale:

BL> On Sat Feb 24, BOB NIGHTINGALE said to CHRIS CARTER:
BL>  -BN>What I want to know is what was the weapon system that Riker used to
BL>  -BN>blow holes in the Klingons?  It looked like a swarm of
BL> mini-torpedoes.

BL> It was the Wave-motion Phaser. They borrowed it from the Yamamato.
BL>


        Close. It was the Yamato...or Argo depending on which country your in.
:)

        Interesting to note that I wasn't the only one who picked up on the
similarity. Of course the use of the main deflector dish to fire an energy burst
in "Best of Both Worlds" more closely fits this parrallel.

        On the subject of what the Enterprise E is going to look like... how
'bout this?:

        The Enterprise original was destroyed. The E-A was mothballed. The E-C
was destroyed. The E-D crashed. I've never seen anything about what might have
happened to the E-B. Now just supposing that a few months after the crash of the
E-D a Federation starship discovers the E-B which was missing and presumed lost
for seventy years. It might be towed back to Star Fleet Headquarters, inspected,
upgraded and recommissioned for active duty. You wouldn't even have to
re-christin her. :)



--- CNet/3
 * Origin: The Bard's Tavern Denton, TX (817)243-5110 USR 28.8   (1:393/7)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 84 of 195
 From : Don Dellmann                        1:154/40        .cê 03 .àp 96 19:19
 To   : David Durgee
 Subj : Cybersex
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
While tripping merrily through the mail, David Durgee was overheard

 BPL> Some interesting comments on sex and human sexuality have come out of
 BPL> science fiction -- though usually books and not TV/movies.  Cf

 KW> To which you can add:
 KW> Griffith's AMMONITE
 KW> PJF's FLESH
 KW> Varley's STEEL BEACH

 TR>     Niven's "Ringworld Engineers"
 TR>     Halderman's "The Forever War"
 TR>     Vandenberg's "Alone in Darkness"

 DD> and Sturgeon's "Venus Plus X"

Fred Saberhagen's "Love Conquers All"

Don

... Sorry. My karma ran over your dogma.
---
 * Origin: Anonymous BBS -=- Non plus Ultra -=- 414-251-2580 (1:154/40)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 85 of 195
 From : Charles Daniels                     1:203/42        .cê 03 .àp 96 12:33
 To   : Frank Glover
 Subj : Cybersex
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

>BP>  Loverbirds" (very daring when it first came out).  Or anything by
>BP>  Heinlein after he became obsessed with sex.

>    Starting around `Stranger In A Strange Land,' eh?

Well The Puppet Masters has some really interesting sexual content as well.

--- FMail 0.98
 * Origin: Deep Thought: RedDwarf,ST,SF, FREE MEAT!  916-452-9501 (1:203/42)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 86 of 195
 From : Anders Danebo                       2:201/190       .åò 29 .åâ 96 06:26
 To   : Jeroen Jacobs
 Subj : Hello !
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

-=> Quoting Jeroen Jacobs to Anders Danebo <=-

 JJ> Yow Anders !! Where the hell are you ??

 JJ> Zaterdag Februari 17 1996 20:54, Anders Danebo schreef naar Jeroen
 JJ> Jacobs:
 JJ>> And these are my favorite SF-series:

 JJ>> - the X files.
 JJ>> - Star Trek : Deep Space 9
 JJ>> - Star Trek : The Next Generation
 JJ>> - Star Trek : Voyager
 JJ>> - The Outer Limits

 AD> You must be my twin or my twin soul...Exactly my faves..

 JJ> Twin ??.....cool !!

 JJ> I forgot one : Twin peaks (I consider it SF).

I believe that's where the twin ship ends...

 JJ> Does anybody know about a confrontation VOYAGER <-> BORG ??



 JJ> Greetings from The Prince of Darkness,

 JJ> Jeroen

 JJ> -[PGP_ID=1F7602ED]-


 JJ> ...I am Zsa Zsa of Borg. Prepare to be assimilated dahling.

 JJ> -!- FMail/386 1.0g
 JJ>  ! Origin: 2:292/506.26  (2:292/506.26)



... All right, set phasers to deep fat fry!
--- GEcho 1.00
 * Origin: =:Detroit Rock City:= Stockholm, Sweden  +46-8-870055 (2:201/190)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 87 of 195
 From : Anders Danebo                       2:201/190       .åò 29 .åâ 96 06:27
 To   : Kay Shapero
 Subj : Cybersex
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

-=> Quoting Kay Shapero to Anders Danebo <=-

 KS> Ever read Ursula K. Leguin's _The Left Hand Of Darkness_?  Or for that
 KS> matter, some of Philip Jose Farmer's stuff.  There's a heck of a lot
 KS> more to this topic than you think.
 KS> -!- msged 2.06
 KS>  ! Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Perhaps,but since the almighty moderator has put his foot down on me,i have
no say in the matter.So the discussion is pointless to continue...


... "Captain, Permission to hook up blender attachments to Mr. Data
--- GEcho 1.00
 * Origin: =:Detroit Rock City:= Stockholm, Sweden  +46-8-870055 (2:201/190)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 88 of 195
 From : Richard Price                       1:3604/33       .cê 03 .àp 96 21:27
 To   : Frank Swarbrick
 Subj : Gulliver's Travels
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

FS>>On 02-15-96  11:29 my Very Good Friend Chris Ogniben said:

FS>> CO> The movie series was stupid.  Of course i didn't watch it, but, you
FS>> CO> all know that it's not real.  And that it didn't acutally happen.  It
FS>> CO> was all made up like a story book.  I didn't bother wasting my time to
FS>> CO> watch it, not with great sci fi shows that are on.

FS>>And science fiction is real?  Just exactly what world do you live in
FS>>anyway, Chris?  How can you say it was stupid if you didn't even watch
FS>>it?  It was quite delightful, actually.

I thought so too...it was quite delightful...I thought it was great.

The Crow
        Victims, aren't we all?


 * OLX 2.2 TD * Victims, aren't we all?

--- Maximus 2.02
 * Origin: Atrocity Exhibition (1:3604/33)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 89 of 195
 From : Barton Paul Levenson                1:129/26        .cê 03 .àp 96 16:07
 To   : Mark Jones
 Subj : Alternative energy sources
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
I think you dismiss solar too casually.  Other forms of power generation are
also intermittent; coal and nuclear power plants are not up 100% of the time
either -- in fact they average about 50% over the year.

The obvious solution is to store power.  Solar thermal and photovoltaic power
during the day can be used to pump water uphill; at night it can run back
through turbines.

And on overcast days, the wind tends to be blowing.  Bad Solar days are good
wind days.  I understand California already has several hundred megawatts
installed.

Hot-dry-rock geothermal has barely been explored yet, but it is another huge,
huge source of energy, and could easily be tapped around the clock.

Then there's ocean thermal energy, dependent on the temperature difference
between shallow and deep waters.  Another potentially huge source of power.

--- Maximus 3.01
 * Origin: SoundingBoard, Pittsburgh PA (1:129/26)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 90 of 195
 From : Frank Glover                        1:2613/477      .cê 03 .àp 96 14:17
 To   : Chris Baughp
 Subj : Re: 'bugs' in ST: Generations
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

CB>   FG> The lighting wasn't too good either. Looked like sodium vapor
CB>   FG> street lamps...
CB>
CB>  Did it look to you like 10-forward was all yellow, rather than a
CB>  white room?

   That, the corridors, the Captain's quaters....

   That's close to what sodium-vapor lights would do. (As opposed to the bluish
light of mercury-vapor street lamps.) I suppose I'm spoiled by the clear
lighting used on the series. I can understand it being a little more subdued
than that (espically in the ship's `night' cycle) but not *that* bad.....

   Frank


--- QuickBBS 2.80 GoldBase (Zeta-1)
 * Origin: The Matrix Data Bank BBS, Rochester, Ny (1:2613/477)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 91 of 195
 From : Frank Glover                        1:2613/477      .cê 03 .àp 96 15:11
 To   : Nicolai Shapero
 Subj : Re: Nuclear
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

NS>  Not likely; part of our human-ness is that we're tool users.  And a
NS>  weapon is just another tool.  Of course, we're also one of the larger

   Agreed. Indeed one of the often-missed points in `2001:A Space Odyssey' (a
little clearer in the novelization) is that when that early humanoid realized
what he(?) could do with that bone, our *first* tool was a weapon. (with all
that implies about human nature, I suppose)

   And the following million-year flash forward showed us a satellite that was
(again, according to the novelization) an orbiting nuclear weapons platform.
Another tool/weapon....

   Frank


--- QuickBBS 2.80 GoldBase (Zeta-1)
 * Origin: The Matrix Data Bank BBS, Rochester, Ny (1:2613/477)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 92 of 195
 From : Frank Glover                        1:2613/477      .cê 03 .àp 96 15:20
 To   : Barton Paul Levenson
 Subj : Re: TERAFORMING
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

BP>  The problems with the Moon are mainly the lack of air and the
BP>  month-long rotational period.  Both could be corrected, temporarily,
BP>  by bashing ice asteroids from the outer system into Luna's equator.
BP>  But that would give it an ammonia-water atmosphere.  Some kind of
BP>  genetically engineered bacteria would be needed to transform the
BP>  atmosphere to a breathable one.

   Actually, with the stable platform, low gravity and vacuum all the way to the
surface, I submit that for future industrial and research purposes, theMoon is
more valuable as it is. I wouldn't terraform it, even if I could.

   Now Mars on the other hand.....

   Frank


--- QuickBBS 2.80 GoldBase (Zeta-1)
 * Origin: The Matrix Data Bank BBS, Rochester, Ny (1:2613/477)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 93 of 195
 From : Frank Glover                        1:2613/477      .cê 03 .àp 96 15:30
 To   : Marco Catalano
 Subj : Re: 'bugs' in ST: Generations
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

MC>  How about the solar probe?
MC>  It was launched and almost immidiately impacted on the sun. A probe
MC>  that small couldn't have warp capability.

   I don't know. The first apperance of Worf's girlfriend involved travel in a
one-person warp-driven device of similar size, so there is a precedent. And this
probe, as it had to operate less than a minute, could run in an
all-safties-disabled, flat-out redlined mode, not unlike the small ship that
attacked the first Enterprise back in `Journey to Babel.'

MC>  Let alone that, when the probe started to dampen the sun, it
MC>  immidiately became darker. An 'M' class planet or moon must be
MC>  several light-minutes away at mimimun. Like our own planet, the
MC>  sunlight takes about 8 minutes to reach us.

   Absolutely right on this one, though. To be neither too close or to far to be
a Class-M world, and the speed of light in vacuum being the unalterable (even if
surpassable) thing it is, they should've seen no change for, say, 8-12
minutes....

   Frank


--- QuickBBS 2.80 GoldBase (Zeta-1)
 * Origin: The Matrix Data Bank BBS, Rochester, Ny (1:2613/477)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 94 of 195
 From : Frank Glover                        1:2613/477      .cê 03 .àp 96 15:34
 To   : Mark Jones
 Subj : Re: Star Trek Generations
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

MJ>     ...and they should be able to slap one together in very short
MJ>  order.  Even if they can't replicate the entire ship in one fell
MJ>  swoop
MJ>  (in a giant space-station sized replicator), they *can* replicate all
MJ>  the individual parts.  And the parts will all be *exactly* identical
MJ>  right down to the molecular level.
MJ>     As long as you can shovel raw materials into the hopper, you can
MJ>  churn out parts endlessly.

   And I have to assume the Federation is still recovering from its losses to
the Borg back at Wolf 359 (plus losing Galaxy-class ships Yamoto and Odyssey in
other circumstances), and the Utopia Planatia yards must be pretty busy....

   Frank

--- QuickBBS 2.80 GoldBase (Zeta-1)
 * Origin: The Matrix Data Bank BBS, Rochester, Ny (1:2613/477)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 95 of 195
 From : Chris Baugh                         1:105/290.5     .cê 03 .àp 96 01:25
 To   : Richard Sarner
 Subj : looking for
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 RS> the Riddlemaster of Hed trilogy by Patricia McPhillip. Riddlemaster of
 RS> Hed, Harpist in the Wind, Heir of Sea and Fire. They are among my

That's it! Thank you, thank you!

--- PPoint 1.98
 * Origin: - (1:105/290.5)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 96 of 195
 From : The Raven                           1:363/309       .ÿò 01 .àp 96 23:41
 To   : mitch obrecht
 Subj : help!
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 mo> I've heard several people talk about a story that's probably 10 years
 mo> old or more... the basis of this story is that there is someone in the
 mo> armed forces (air force, I think) who is hetero, and somehow gets
 mo> transported to the future (400 years or so, I think).  Everyone (or the
 mo> majority) in this future is gay or lesbian (even bi is considered a
 mo> no-no) and in one part of this story or book, the main character is
 mo> making a speech in front of a training group, and says "Yes, I'm
 mo> straight, but don't hold it against me"
 mo> Can anybody out there tell me where I can find this? Or who it's by,
 mo> the title, or any information?  I've had almost 20 differant people
 mo> tell me that they have read it, highly recommend it, yet they cannot
 mo> tell me where I can find it, or any info...  Thanks!

     "The Forever War".  Heinlein called it the best SF book written about war
ever written.  The reason for the homosexuality was population control.  (They
not only were all gay, they were all clones...).

     Jack Butler



... Someone's at the door...
--- Blue Wave/DOS v2.20 [NR]
 * Origin: Forethought BBS -=- Orlando, FL -=- 407-679-6561 (1:363/309)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 97 of 195
 From : The Raven                           1:363/309       .ÿò 01 .àp 96 23:43
 To   : Todd Sullivan
 Subj : Fan/fanatic/fancier
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 KS> Frankly I've always doubted that derivation, Webster notwithstanding.
 KS> I'm not so sure it doesn't really derive from "fancy" as per "following
 KS> the fancy", a Regency era term for those with an interest in pugilistic
 KS> displays, or "pigeon fancier" for someone who raises and shows prize
 KS> pigeons.  It would be easy enough to shorten "fancier" to "fan", and
 KS> form a closer match to the current usage.

 TS> Come on, Kay; you've been to a convention or two, haven't you?
 TS> You see both kinds, plus the *really* wierd ones, if you get my drift.
 TS> Ook, ook, drool. <snicker>

     Do you remember the geekwad in the Captain Kirk shirt who I almost threw
through a window because he wouldn't leave KT alone?  Or were you at that
convention...

     Jack Butler



... "If anything can go wrong, it will." -- Murphy's 1st Law
--- Blue Wave/DOS v2.20 [NR]
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Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 98 of 195
 From : The Raven                           1:363/309       .ÿò 01 .àp 96 23:52
 To   : Timothy H. Willis
 Subj : Star Trek Generations
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 THW> Okay Chris... you claim to be a writer?  Cite your published
 THW> work.  Otherwise, call yourself a writer wannabe.  As a person who is
 THW> struggling to sell what I write, and one who *does not* presume to
 THW> declare myself to be a writer, until I make that sale, I take umbrage
 THW> at your declaration above.

     Got news.  I've made a couple of sales and don't call myself a writer.
Won't, either, until 75%+ of my income is provided by my writing.

     Jack Butler



... "Wax my Lupus!" -- Tony Vincenzi, Glass Walker
--- Blue Wave/DOS v2.20 [NR]
 * Origin: Forethought BBS -=- Orlando, FL -=- 407-679-6561 (1:363/309)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 99 of 195
 From : Jon Helis                           1:3800/25       .åò 22 .åâ 96 22:49
 To   : Gerry Normandeau
 Subj : Re: Cybersex
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 -=> Quoting Gerry Normandeau to Jon Helis <=-

 GN> On 02-14-96  18:37 Jon Helis sent Barton Paul Levenson to the gallows
 GN> pole because of Re: Cybersex!

 -=> Quoting Barton Paul Levenson to Anders Danebo <=-
 GN>
 BPL> @MSGID: 1:129/26.0 3125bb20
 BPL> @REPLY: 2:201/190.0 311ea93a
 BPL> I think I know what you're trying to say, but I think you're mistaken
 BPL> if you say sex can't be discussed seriously, under SF or otherwise.
 BPL> Some interesting comments on sex and human sexuality have come out of
 BPL> science fiction -- though usually books and not TV/movies.  Cf LeGuin's
 BPL> "The Left Hand of Darkness" or Philip Jose Farmer's "The Loverbirds"
 BPL> (very daring when it first came out).  Or anything by Heinlein after he
 BPL> became obsessed with sex.

 JH> The 1973 Michael Crichton film "Westworld" dealt with this issue
 JH> in a very interesting way.

 JH> Anyone who's seen it care to discuss it?

 GN> Well that was a very good movie (I have it on tape) But the problem
 GN> is it barley scratched the surface about the concept of cyber sex.
 GN> Also taking into account they were robots and the film Crichton of
 GN> course was more interested in showing how tecnology is bad and will
 GN> kill us all. He's funny that way nes pa?

Westworld is one of my favorite all time movies.  I've never
seen an uncut print of it I don't think, since my viewings of it
have been strictly late night broadcast TV showings of it.
Still a good movie nonetheless.

Even though they were robots, I still think it can be applied
here.  In cybersex, or any other VR activity, nobody gets hurt,
which was the same in Westworld.

I look at the film from another point of view, that misdeeds,
even sanctioned misdeeds, in which nobody gets hurt, do have
consequences, and that certain behavior is simply immoral, and
should not go on, regardless of who gets hurt or not.

Anyone have an opinion on that?






... Security, confine Ensign Normandeau to the brig.
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

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Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 100 of 195
 From : Jon Helis                           1:3800/25       .ÿò 23 .åâ 96 00:43
 To   : Jeff Schmidt
 Subj : Re: Hi Jon
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 -=> Quoting Jeff Schmidt to Jon Helis <=-

 JS> @MSGID: 1:3604/33.0 312d6749
 -=> Quoting Jon Helis to Dean Sweatman <=-

 JH> Sorry to hear about Black Tower closing down.  It seems that
 JH> alot of BBSes are closing, I guess due to increasingly available
 JH> internet.  Locally, there are a good number of BBSes for a city
 JH> this size, but it seems alot of them are pay boards.  I get alot
 JH> of use out of this board, it's a bargain at $35/year.

 JS> Hi Jon, I'm still up at least though I have a whopping two users as of
 JS> the  moment.  I'm trying to carry FIAWOL over here; I can send stuff
 JS> out on it but  I've still not gotten anything in.

I'm sure your user base will increase in time.  Again, it's good
you have your BBS back up.

 JS> Pay boards suck.....

In some ways that's true, but I get alot of use out this board.
The sysop brought back this sub and Babylon 5 for me, he had
dropped them before because nobody was using them.  As far as I
can tell, I'm the only caller using them right now.  This board
also carries other echoes I'm active in, like the ham radio and
LA Chat echoes.

 JS> First time I've been on this echo in about a year.  I'm still trying
 JS> to catch  Space: Above and Beyond when possible.  Hasn't been too
 JS> possible lately  though.

I catch it every Sunday night.  Looks like this Sunday it's
getting pre-empted again, what a bummer.  During football
season, you couldn't figure out when it was starting because of
games running over, now it's getting pre-empted.  It seems like
Fox has done that a few times before, unfortunately.  This is a
great series, and shouldn't get this kind of treatment.




... What can you do at 3 AM?   Psssttt - got a modem??
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

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Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 101 of 195
 From : Jon Helis                           1:3800/25       .ÿò 23 .åâ 96 01:29
 To   : Channon Lang
 Subj : Re: Star Trek
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 -=> Quoting Channon Lang to Jon Helis <=-

 CL> From a dark bottomless pit,Jon Helis screamed up to Channon Lang about
 CL> Star Trek..
 JH> I enjoy watching DS9, but Voyager, sometimes it's good, while at
 JH> other times, outright disappointing.  This inconsistency is
 JH> slowly starting to push me away.  Unless they start coming up
 JH> with good scripts, I may write it off too.

 CL> I was concerned about DS9 for a while...and really leary about Worf
 CL> showing up there. But it seems to shaping up quite nicely. And Worf is
 CL> finding a friend in Dax...it's interesing how quickly he replaced
 CL> Deanna Troy, isn't it?

 JH> Worf's relationship with Odo is somewhat interesting, in fact,
 JH> it's beginning to look a little like Odo's relationship with
 JH> Quark.

 CL> It seems that Odo has that effect on people. Maybe it's one of those
 CL> Love Hate relationships....I think if it came down to the wire Odo and
 CL> Quark and probably even Worf would give everything to save the other.

 JH> Last month, I got the chance to see Terry Farrel at a
 JH> convention.  She's a very entertaining speaker.  Seeing her
 JH> handle a 10 foot albino python was also interesting.
 CL>
 CL> Bet that was interesting....where did you get to see her?

I saw her at an Infinite Visions convention in New Orleans.  It
was interesting to say the least.  Brent Spiner was originally
set to appear, but he couldn't due to illness, so Terry Farrell
took his place.

 JH> The ghosts of Battlestar Galactica and Space 1999 still haunt me
 JH> when I see Voyager.

 CL> I really like Battlestar Galactica...but then I was a teenage with a
 CL> HUGE crush on Dirk Benedict, too...As for Space 1999, I couldn't stand

 JH> I enjoyed Galactica's first few episodes, but it did later go
 JH> down hill for me.  It's spinoff, Galactica 1980, was a major
 JH> disappointment for me.  Space:1999 during its first season had
 JH> some good stories, but the second season(which included Fred
 JH> Frieberger, the producer of Star Trek's last season, and the
 JH> introduction of a shapeshifting alien) really sucked the sewage.
 JH> I still have my 2.5 foot long Eagle One playset around here
 JH> somewhere.  I also have a toy Cylon Raider spaceship, one of the
 JH> ones that fires missiles, that were pulled from the market after
 JH> a child suffered a choking accident.

 CL> I must say, I did like the ships in Galactica. I really thought the
 CL> cylon ships were the epidomy of a "flying saucer".

Yes they were. Those Sphinx-Like helmets were a little much
though.  They were trying to capitalized on Erich Von Danekin I
guess.  I always found it odd on the show, it seemed when the
Colonial Vipers got hit, they didn't take much damage, while one
shot would wipe out a Cylon ship.

I thought Boltar was a good villain.  John Colicos played the
part well, but they messed up the series when they let him get
captured and put on the prison barge.

Lately, I've taken to watching Space:Above and Beyond.  Ever
watcht that one?



... How come Pizza gets to your house faster than the Police?
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

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Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 102 of 195
 From : Jon Helis                           1:3800/25       .ÿò 23 .åâ 96 03:38
 To   : Jeroen Jacobs
 Subj : Re: 'bugs' in ST: Generat
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 -=> Quoting Jeroen Jacobs to All <=-

 JJ> If somebody has found other mistakes (not necessarely in
 JJ> 'generations'), please let me know.

 JJ> Greetings from The Prince of Darkness,

If you like stuff like this, you should pick up one of the
Nitpicker's Guides, there's one for TOS and TNG.  I have the TNG
version, and it has some interesting stuff in it.  Give it a try.





... "How may I be honest with you today?" --Tuvok
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

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Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 103 of 195
 From : Jon Helis                           1:3800/25       .ÿò 23 .åâ 96 03:41
 To   : Dean Sweatman
 Subj : Re: CRESCENT CITY CON XI
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Thanks for the info Dean.  I cross posted it to BR Chat and LA
Chat, to help get the word out.

Sorry I missed Saturday, I didn't get the Email until around
1:00 AM on Friday!  In addition, I've been battling a cold and
allergies, and took some medicine that put me right to sleep
Saturday afternoon.  Maybe next time.

Number Six


... 90% of PC problems are located between the keyboard and the chair.
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

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Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 104 of 195
 From : Jon Helis                           1:3800/25       .ÿò 23 .åâ 96 11:38
 To   : Dean Sweatman
 Subj : Re: The vision people str
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 -=> Quoting Dean Sweatman to All <=-

 DS> VISIONS '96 D.C.: A SCI-FI SUPER SHOW!
 DS>
 DS> March 23 & March 24 *** 10 am - 7 pm daily
 DS>
 DS> The Expo Center at the Ramada
 DS> 8500 Anapolis Road
 DS> New Carrollton MD
 DS> 301-459-6700
 DS>
 DS> Guests: Ethan Phillips "NEELIX" of Star Trek Voyager
 DS> Terry Farrell "DAX" of Star Trek Deep Space Nine
 DS> James Doohan "SCOTTY" of Star Trek & Next Generation
 DS> David Prowse "DARTH VADER" of Star Wars
 DS> Warwick Davis "WICKET" of Star Wars & "WILLOW" of
 DS> the film "Willow"
 DS> Mark Goddard "MAJOR WEST" of Lost in Space
 DS> World Famous Illusionists GIFFORD & ROY
 DS>
 DS> Captain's Chair from Star Trek Generations will be available for
 DS> Photos
 DS> ASK ABOUT THE SATURDAY NIGHT FORMAL RECEPTION WITH THE STARS!
 DS>
 DS> General admission $18.00  Children (5 - 12) $ 10.00
 DS>
 DS> ADVANCE TICKETS GO ON SALE 2/23/96 at 10:00 am. Call 508-255-6712.
 DS>
 DS> Call 508-240-3557 for More Information
 DS>
 DS> --
 DS> CJF Enterprises
 DS> PO Box 9075                 email: VGCA29A@PRODIGY.COM Fall River MA
 DS> 02720-0002 508-646-1324 Fax: 508-646-1325
 DS>
 DS> ** Keeper of the Captain's Chair off the Bridge of the USS
 DS> Enterprises  **
 DS> Anyone want to hazzard a wild guess what kind of money they will be
 DS> asking for this event??  Don't get me wrong Babs and I enjoyed our stay
 DS> at the last trip that they made to New Orleans but with their 9 hour
 DS> window per day getting to hear each of the guests will not be easy
 DS> unless you plan on spending both days at the show.

 DS> They added 2 hours per day and increased the price by $2.00 per day to
 DS> cover the extra time but adding the Reception on Saturday Night should
 DS> make up for any failings that they might have had in giving the
 DS> Customers a break.
 DS> I would love to know what the final tab would be for this one.

 DS> Fiawol

With all these guests on the schedule, I wonder how one will get
to see all of them, unless they go both days(and pay twice).
Remember that banquet in the evening isn't going to be free
either.

Like you, I thought the show in New Orleans was pretty good, but
not as enjoyable as Crescent City Con.  There was a message
posted recently about this, that was in response to the message
about the Star Trek Casino.  One poster commented that he was
afraid one day, fan run cons will disappear, and all that will
be left are these "Official" Infinite Visions or Creation Cons.
That would be unfortunate.

Number Six


... "We are Star-Stuff.  We are the Universe made manifest."  Delenn
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

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Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 105 of 195
 From : Todd Sullivan                       1:202/720.3     .ÿò 01 .àp 96 20:50
 To   : Chris Baugh
 Subj : Westworld
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Jon Helis was kicking back and telling sea stories until Inspector General Chris
Baugh walked in and said, "Knock off with that Westworld and get back to work!"
There was no choice but to shoot Chris.

 JH>> The 1973 Michael Crichton film "Westworld" dealt with this issue
 JH>> in a very interesting way.

 JH>> Anyone who's seen it care to discuss it?

 CB> It's been a while since I've seen it, but sure, I'd be happy to
 CB> discuss what I can remember of it.

I'll take a shot at it too.  I've seen it three times in the last 34 1/2 years;
let's see how much we can remember together, eh? :^)

Todd Sullivan

... "Our country, right or wrong.  When right, to be kept right; when
     wrong, to be put right." --Carl Schurz

-*- ASTG 1.9

--- Spot 1.3a Unregistered
 * Origin: Todd's Spot in the Continuum (1:202/720.3)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 106 of 195
 From : Todd Sullivan                       1:202/720.3     .ÿò 01 .àp 96 20:55
 To   : Dion G Nethercott
 Subj : Twits among us.
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Chris Ogniben was kicking back and telling sea stories until Inspector General
Dion G Nethercott walked in and said, "Knock off with that UFO and get back to
work!"  There was no choice but to shoot Dion.

 DGN> On 3 Feb 96 02:45pm, CHRIS OGNIBEN wrote to CHRIS BAUGH:

 CO>>   I still think that you people, are morons to think that UFO's are
 CO>> real.  I mean, people  and the human race, can take drugs or drink
 CO>> beer, or just be tired or something, and see stupid lights in the sky.

 DGN>  may i see your conclusive proof please?

He's a bigoted, sexist, ignorant twit.  Ignore him.

I'm stating observed facts, Nicolai, so it's not a flame. (Yeah, right)

Todd Sullivan

... I'm sorry, but you've obviously mistaken me for someone who cares.

-*- ASTG 1.9

--- Spot 1.3a Unregistered
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Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 107 of 195
 From : Todd Sullivan                       1:202/720.3     .ÿò 01 .àp 96 20:59
 To   : Chris Baugh
 Subj : gray goo?
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Tommy Kellerman was kicking back and telling sea stories until Inspector General
Chris Baugh walked in and said, "Knock off with that gray goo? and get back to
work!"  There was no choice but to shoot Chris.

 TK>> And I haven't heard about the "gray-goo"-scenarios. Please explain.

 CB> The idea behind nanotechnology is that matter could be manipulated
 CB> one atom at a time to create anything.  This is currently an
 CB> unproven theory but many scientists are researching in physics,
 CB> chemistry, etc., hoping to find a breakthrough discovery.  However,
 CB> the concern is that once people start manipulating the structure of
 CB> matter, either an accident or a terrorist will create a substance
 CB> fatal to all life - a deadly "gray goo".  In case you didn't know
 CB> "goo" is sticky, disgusting mess.

Sounds like something from Arch Obler's "Chicken Heart that ate the World".

<WHO?>

Todd Sullivan

... Be original:  Don't parrot the party line.

-*- ASTG 1.9

--- Spot 1.3a Unregistered
 * Origin: Todd's Spot in the Continuum (1:202/720.3)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 108 of 195
 From : Todd Sullivan                       1:202/720.3     .ÿò 01 .àp 96 21:05
 To   : The Raven
 Subj : Bs!!
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
I was kicking back and telling sea stories until Inspector General The Raven
walked in and said, "Knock off with that Bs!! and get back to work!"  There was
no choice but to shoot The.

 TR>>      Who was it who said "A fair fight is a fight I win"?

 TS>> Sounds like any of the Heinlein books where Lazarus is featured. :^)

 TR>      Since I sent the original message, I found the source.  Teddy
 TR> Roosevelt said it.

Considering that Brian Smith is mentioned as bearing a strong resemblance to
Roosevelt, I stand by my claim. <G>

Todd Sullivan

... Revenge?  What, I have to act like a Fundie?

-*- ASTG 1.9

--- Spot 1.3a Unregistered
 * Origin: Todd's Spot in the Continuum (1:202/720.3)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 109 of 195
 From : Frank Swarbrick                     1:104/825       .óá 02 .àp 96 17:35
 To   : Michael Harper
 Subj : Dangerous Babes
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12  92-0022
On 02-28-96  09:02 my Very Good Friend Michael Harper said:

 -=> Tossing back another tequila, Frank Swarbrick told Michael Harper about
 MH> Dangerous Babes...

 FS> Is she from New Zealand?  I don't think so...  The show is shot there,
 FS> sure, but it's an American TV show, and she sure sounds American to
 FS> me.  I heard that neither Hercules nor Xena are even aired in New
 FS> Zealand.

 MH> Nope, she's Enzedd. Has one kid, shares joint custody with her
 MH> ex-husband. And she was already a star in New Zealand before Xena
 MH> ever came about. I think the shows both air down there; I'll check.

Yep, you are absolutely correct.  I just read an article about her
that says she's a New Zealander.  Oh well, one can't be right all the
time!  :-)  I know I read somewhere that neither show airs in NZ, but
perhaps that's changed.

        Frank

... People think I'm insane because I am frowning all the time.
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12
 * Origin: The Bailey Information Exchange BBS, 28.8k v.fc  (1:104/825.0)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 110 of 195
 From : Dave MacLean                        1:259/536       .cê 03 .àp 96 04:47
 To   : Rod Mammitzsch
 Subj : Sci fi
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
british sci fi hmmmm what exactly does that intail?  mainly we discuss things
like b5 & things trek. but perhaps u might want to attend our next meeting
perhaps u could bring an unusal point of view to our club should u decide to
join.  our next meeting is march 17th at 1:30pm.  write me if u should require
more info.



--- Maximus 2.01wb
 * Origin: USS Proxima = Toronto, Canada (416)265-3867 (1:259/536)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 111 of 195
 From : Todd Sullivan                       1:202/720.3     .óá 02 .àp 96 19:31
 To   : Nicolai Shapero
 Subj : AHEM!
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Chris Ogniben was kicking back and telling sea stories until Inspector General
Nicolai Shapero walked in and said, "Knock off with that AHEM! and get back to
work!"  There was no choice but to shoot Nicolai.

 CO>> that for anyone like you people, that are stupid.

 NS> Well, then, after this last comment, think of the following as
 NS> "evolution in action":

 NS> CHRIS, YOU HAVE JUST EARNED A 90 DAY SUSPENSION FROM THIS CONFERENCE.

Praised be!  There is justice!  Larry Niven wasn't quite right (TANJ).

Todd Sullivan

... Be yourself.  No one else wants the job!

-*- ASTG 1.9

--- Spot 1.3a Unregistered
 * Origin: Todd's Spot in the Continuum (1:202/720.3)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 112 of 195
 From : Todd Sullivan                       1:202/720.3     .óá 02 .àp 96 19:33
 To   : Kay Shapero
 Subj : Fan/fanatic/fancier
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
I was kicking back and telling sea stories until Inspector General Kay Shapero
walked in and said, "Knock off with that Fan/fanatic/fancier and get back to
work!"  There was no choice but to shoot Kay.

 KS> Of course - and I'm sure those who followed the fancy in Regency times
 KS> had their share of utter wackos too.  I've been to a lot of
 KS> conventions, and served on concoms (two at the moment), and have found
 KS> fandom to be essentially a culture, like any other.  A place where
 KS> "weird" is a complement, because it usually is used to mean
 KS> "imaginative" or "creative".

I've been to a few cons, but I can't make comparisons; one was Creation Con back
in '80 or '81, and one was the one our Starfleet chapter in O-Town hosted.

Todd Sullivan

... "A man may build himself a throne of bayonets, but he cannot
     sit on it." --William Inge

-*- ASTG 1.9

--- Spot 1.3a Unregistered
 * Origin: Todd's Spot in the Continuum (1:202/720.3)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 113 of 195
 From : BOB NIGHTINGALE                     1:230/74        .pä 28 .åâ 96 22:13
 To   : ANDERS DANEBO
 Subj : "Q" on VOYAGER
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 -=> Quoting Anders Danebo to Robert Lidgren <=-

 AD> A little input and a personal opinion..I can't believe they didn't put
 AD> Q in with the GENERATIONS gang...Big mistake(good movie but it should
 AD> have had Q in it...)

I was wondering if Ted Danzen would be waiting for Whoopi in the Nexus?

--Bob.


... Power corrupts. Absolute power is kinda neat, though.
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12
--- Platinum Xpress/Wildcat! v1.2f
 * Origin: Spare Time BBS * Hammond,IN * (219)845-6710 (1:230/74)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 114 of 195
 From : BOB NIGHTINGALE                     1:230/74        .pä 28 .åâ 96 22:18
 To   : TODD SULLIVAN
 Subj : syzygy
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 -=> Quoting Todd Sullivan to Chris Carter <=-


 TS> <blank stare>  No idea; you might check JPL's web sire, if the have
 TS> one.
 TS> Todd Sullivan

Only on a web sire do you need virgin control. <Grin>

--Bob.


... Now let's get back before the off-topic police catch us!
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12
--- Platinum Xpress/Wildcat! v1.2f
 * Origin: Spare Time BBS * Hammond,IN * (219)845-6710 (1:230/74)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 115 of 195
 From : BOB NIGHTINGALE                     1:230/74        .óá 02 .àp 96 10:34
 To   : JEROEN JACOBS
 Subj : 'bugs' in ST: Generat
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 -=> Quoting Jeroen Jacobs to All <=-

 JJ> If somebody has found other mistakes (not necessarely in
 JJ> 'generations'), please let me know.

The biggest mistake I found was that destroying a star could alter
the ribbon's course as precisely the time they we talking about.
True, if you remove a mass as large as a star, then a course change
could take place.  But until a significant amount of mass passes the
ribbon, the center of mass is still at the center of star's former
position.  Gaussian mechanics, remember?

I suppose Soran could have estimated the mass of ribbon by following
its trajectory around other stars.

Another problem I have is the speed of gravity.  If the gravitational
effect is the same as light and the planet in the movie was
aproximately the same distance we are from the sun, it would take
about 8 minutes for a gravitational effect to occur.

I also question the propulsion system on the missle.  If it is like
a photon torpedo with an FTL drive, wouldn't it take out more than
the launching platform when it exploded?  For it to travel 8
light-minutes in the span of 1 minute it would have to initiate a
space warp as soon as it cleared the atmosphere.  Worf could have
shot down the missle in less than a minute if the Enterprise-D hadn't
separated and crashed on the planet.

Perhaps Soran didn't anticipate a hostile space ship capable of
shooting down his missile, so it could have taken longer to traverse
that solar system.  If all Picard do was lock the clamps on the
missile launcher, then I would expect to see the missile rip the
platform apart before exploding--like the Challenger exposion in '86.
All we see in the movie is Soran's face and a big fireball.

Just my thoughts.
--Bob.
... In outer space, no one can hear you fart!
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12
--- Platinum Xpress/Wildcat! v1.2f
 * Origin: Spare Time BBS * Hammond,IN * (219)845-6710 (1:230/74)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 116 of 195
 From : BOB NIGHTINGALE                     1:230/74        .óá 02 .àp 96 10:37
 To   : BARTON PAUL LEVENSON
 Subj : Cybersex
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 -=> Quoting Barton Paul Levenson to Jon Helis <=-


 BPL> I liked Westworld, though I think the premise was pretty silly.  A
 BPL> robot with serious problems is much more likely not to work at all than
 BPL> to work dangerously.

On the contrary!  I used to have an old Honda Civic.  The sucker
wouldn't die!  It definitely worked AND it was dangerous.

--Bob.

... Data, data everywhere, and not a byte to eat!
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12
--- Platinum Xpress/Wildcat! v1.2f
 * Origin: Spare Time BBS * Hammond,IN * (219)845-6710 (1:230/74)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 117 of 195
 From : Earl Green                          1:3822/1        .cê 03 .àp 96 12:52
 To   : All
 Subj : Sliders Spoilereview
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
   /                                       /
 /                                        /
/   //////////          SLIDERS           /        "Into the Mystic"
/            ///                          //
/                                          ///
//                /             /          /    /     /        /
 ///              /   ////     /   ///     /    /    /   //    /   /////
   //////         /      /    /       /    /    /    /         /       /
        //////    /      /    /       /    /    /    /   ////  /       /
             /    /        /  /       /    /    /    //        /         /
/            /    /   ////    /       /    /    /     ///////  /   ////
//                /           //     /     /    //            /       //
 ///          /   /            //          /     //         /          //
   ///////////    ///           ///////    ///    ///////// /////       ///

/            /     /            /                  /     /           /
/            /     //////      /                  /     /   ///     /   //
/            /           /    /   ///////         /     /     /    /      /
/            /           /    /       /           //    /     /    /      /
/            /      /         /      /             //   /     /    //     /
/            /     /   ///    /     /   ///////    /    /     /     //
/       /    /     /     /    /     /         /    /    /     /      //////
//     /    /      /     /    /     /         /    /    /     /           /
 //                //         /     /         /    /    /     /           /
  //     /          ///////   ///   /         /    /    /     /         /
   //     /                         /         /    /    /     /    /
    //    /                         ///       ///  ///  ///   ///  ///////
     //   /                                                              eg

Not bad.  Could've been better, but overall, not bad.
   The amount of continuity between this episode and last season's
finale was impressive; I really wasn't expecting that.  The opening
teaser really had me going for a few moments.  The revelation that Quinn
merely got his shoulder grazed was a rare example of a well-handled
cop-out: they shouldn't have painted themselves into a storytelling
corner, but they acquitted themselves uncharacteristically well.
   The sort of goofy "witchcraft world" they visited was an interesting
if light-headed idea, though the foreshadowing of the undertaker/farmer
character - who turned out to be the Sorceror-Quinn's downfall in the
making - was very heavy-handed, unnecessary and just flat out silly.
Unless they plan on making that fellow some sort of regular adversary -
but that, IMHO, would be a disastrous mistake for Sliders.  Like Quantum
Leap, it's a show that thrives on exploring its destination each week
and then how to get away from it.  If a "villain" is introduced, it will
come across as truly insipid, much like I felt it did with the Evil
Leaper on QL.
   My only other complaint is that Arturo is being pushed into the
background.  When the show started, John Rhys-Davies and Cleavant
Derricks were the only reasons I stuck with it for the first couple of
episodes.  It took a while for Jerry O'Connell to grow on me, and
despite the fact that I learned to like him, the two adult characters
hold my attention more than the "kids."  Now, Arturo seems to be limited
to stating the obvious!  What a travesty.  This problem needs to be
solved before the show loses Rhys-Davies for good.
   Other than that, it's great to have Sliders back!  I missed this
show. 8-]
       e  <-- Earl Green (earl.green@3822-1.mx1.fidonet.org)  1:3822/1
            Graphics/animation artist, KPBI Fox 46/15 & KFDF UPN 32/36
---
 * SLMR 2.0 * Nog Prank #8: replace Odo's bucket with a short lampshade

--- QScan/PCB v1.17b / 01-0162
 * Origin: Jackalope Junction 501-785-5381 Ft Smith AR (1:3822/1)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 118 of 195
 From : Doug Cline                          1:234/97        .óá 02 .àp 96 13:05
 To   : All
 Subj : lists wanted
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
I just learned how to make windows help files so, as a little project,
I am making a help files with episode listings for Sci-Fi and related
shows. If anyone has an episode list for a show please E-mail it to me
at
DOUG.CLINE@FILECONN.ORG
What I want is lists that have one episode per line. Production
numbers and air dates are great, but please don't
send lists with multiline descriptions unless it is for some obscure
show like outer limits where a single line episode list would be hard
to come by.
The resulting help file will be made freely available.
(I will not UL LD)

Thanks in advance for any help.
Doug    O B-)

--- QScan/WC v1.18b / 01-0602
 * Origin: File Connection - Mansfield, Ohio - 419-747-4865 (1:234/97)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 119 of 195
 From : ROBERT LIDGREN                      1:134/10        .óá 02 .àp 96 23:55
 To   : CHRIS BAUGH
 Subj : TERAFORMING
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Hi Chris.

Thanks so much for sending along the terraforming information.

Would you mind sending along your e-mail address?

Cheers,

-Rob
--- PCBoard 15.2
 * Origin: 32 lines 40 Gig BBS, Realtime InterNet SLIP (403)299-9900 (1:134/10)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 120 of 195
 From : ROBERT LIDGREN                      1:134/10        .óá 02 .àp 96 23:58
 To   : BILL CLEMENTS
 Subj : TERAFORMING
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
-> I believe that there is mention of "Packet Seeder Probes" in the chronicle
-> of the society known as the State in:
->
-> 'A WORLD OUT OF TIME' (C)opyright 1976 by Larry Niven
-> 'THE INTEGRAL TREES' (C)opyright 1983 by Larry Niven
-> 'THE SMOKE RING' (C)opyright 1987 by Larry Niven
->
-> but no real detail of the process of terraforming.

Thanks for all the book references Bill!

I'll check them out.  There were several in your message I hadn't heard about
before.

Cheers,

-Rob
--- PCBoard 15.2
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Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 121 of 195
 From : ROBERT LIDGREN                      1:134/10        .óá 02 .àp 96 23:59
 To   : BARTON PAUL LEVENSON
 Subj : TERAFORMING
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
-> I did an analysis of the technical problems involved in terraforming the
-> Moon once, which was published in the local journal, SELENOLOGY.  Let me
-> know if you want a copy of my analysis.  I warn you that there's lots of
-> math...

Thanks!  I am really interested!  Please send it along to me to my e-mail
address if you are able!

Cheers,

-Rob

======================================================================
| Robert Lidgren \\\|/// * THE INNER SANCTUM | * The Old Viking      |
|                ( o o ) * Writer, Teacher   | * Seeker of the Truth |
| =========o00o====(_)====o00o=======================================|
| e-mail me at------------> robert.lidgren@bbs.logicnet.com          |
| My Personal Web Site----> http://www.logicnet.com/robert.lidgren   |
======================================================================
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 * Origin: 32 lines 40 Gig BBS, Realtime InterNet SLIP (403)299-9900 (1:134/10)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 122 of 195
 From : Robert Siemborski                   1:2604/214      .óá 24 .åâ 96 10:45
 To   : All
 Subj : B5 -> Voyager Connection?
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Is it just me or was the person who played Brother Edward (the black rose
killer) in Passing Through Gesename (spelling?) on babylon 5 the same person who
make tuvok go nuts on that recent voyager episode?  It's a strange coincidence
if they are the same person...  The parts were very similar.

- Rob -

--- SLMAIL v4.5a  (#1409)
 * Origin: Bits 'N Bytes BBS - Leonia, NJ - (201) 346-1661 - 28.8k Connections!
(1:2604/214)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 123 of 195
 From : Robert Siemborski                   1:2604/214      .åò 29 .åâ 96 07:05
 To   : All
 Subj : Recent Nowhere-Man Episode
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Any thoughts on the recent flashback Nowhere Man episode?   I found it
interesting to say the least.  What do you think the conspirisy wanted to find
out?  Why did he never take the picture the way he thought?  What really
happened?  Any thoughts please let me know.

- Rob -

--- SLMAIL v4.5a  (#1409)
 * Origin: Bits 'N Bytes BBS - Leonia, NJ - (201) 346-1661 - 28.8k Connections!
(1:2604/214)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 124 of 195
 From : Robert Siemborski                   1:2604/214      .cê 03 .àp 96 11:05
 To   : All
 Subj : Babylon 5 - Point of no return
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
For those of you who havn't seen point of no return...
^
^
^
^
^
^
^
^
^
^
^
SPOILER SPACE - Skip your message now...
v
v
v
v
v
v
v
v
v
v
v
v
v
v
v

OK...  Now I just watched that very fine episode and loved it alot!!!! Great
episode!  I noticed a few things though and wanted to see what people thought on
them, basically start up another B5 discussion that seems to have
dissapeared....

* G'Kar was LIGHTING candles for once.  I remember reading somewhere that this
was a sign of hope.  The last time we saw an expression of G'Kar and his candles
was when he squished the last one out as Narn fell....  Is this a symbol of
false hope, or is JMS foreshadowing something good about to happen?  I think its
the former...

* The end of the episode was kind of somber, what does this leave in store for
Babylon 5 with earth, and what is going to happen?  Most importantally, how is
Babylon 5 going to react/survive to an attack by Earth?  There is the starfury
vs. starfury duel in the opening credits, but this tells nothing of what will or
won't happen to B5 itself...

* Is this related to the rest of the Babylon Squared (they find B4) storyline
that will be resolved in War Without End at the end of this season?  Is this
perhaps the reason they need B4?

* The people were happy when General Hague's (spelling?) cruiser escaped from
the pursuing ones.  Does this mean that B5 will be able to win the support of
the humans on board?

* How long will G'Kar continue to believe that what he saw was G'Quan
(spelling?), or will Kosh never reveal himself to G'Kar?  Perhaps G'Kar is
better off not knowing, being that he has written (while in jail) the future
Book of G'Kar...

* How exactly are the shadows and morden connected with EarthGov? It is almost
for sure that they are connected with PsiCorps, but are they also in the
Ministry of peace as well?  Of coures, Morden has contact with the president
(from Ivonava's vision in the Machine a few weeks ago...)

Any other ideas or questions or answers, please post them!

- Rob -

--- SLMAIL v4.5a  (#1409)
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(1:2604/214)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 125 of 195
 From : John Giannini                       1:119/50        .îí 04 .àp 96 14:51
 To   : Kay Shapero
 Subj : FILK MODERATOR
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On 22 Feb 96, Kay Shapero wrote to ROBERT LIDGREN:

 RL>> What's the name of the FILK node?  I certainly will drop in.

 KS> That's the FILK echo, the tagname is FILK, and it can be picked up off
 KS> the backbone in Zone 1.  Hope you can join in the fun!

Interesting.  *I* was temporarily barred from this echo because Nicolai said
that mentioning/advertising another echo in *this* echo represents an off topic
subject, and I confronted him for the pettiness of that policy.  (I believe it
was the Starman echo that caused the problem).   Now here is the moderator's
wife(?) talking about (and inadvertainly advertising) another echo on *this*
echo.  Hmmm....

I haven't really even visited this echo for 6 months.  Is it actually possible
that the moderator considered the wisdom of my prior position after the fact and
changed his position, and I've only found out now?  Or if not, perhaps moderator
wives are allowed more leeway in such things than the rest of us? Hmmmm.  Maybe
I should read this echo more often.  Things change too quickly here.

--- GoldED 2.50
 * Origin:  The Moonshadow :*: 916.343.0534 :*: Chico, CA :*: (1:119/50)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 126 of 195
 From : John Giannini                       1:119/50        .îí 04 .àp 96 14:46
 To   : Jaimie Park
 Subj : x-files
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
23 Feb 96, Tam Phan writes to Jaimie Park:

 JP>> hello, this is jaimie park and i'm calling out to all those
 JP>> x-philes across the country.  i'm dying for some stimulating
 JP>> conversation about the show with someone who actually knows what
 JP>> they're talking about. please contact me.

There is an X-Files national echo....Lotsa talk of the show there...

--- GoldED 2.50
 * Origin:  The Moonshadow :*: 916.343.0534 :*: Chico, CA :*: (1:119/50)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 127 of 195
 From : John Giannini                       1:119/50        .îí 04 .àp 96 14:52
 To   : Mark Jones
 Subj : Cybersex
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On 21 Feb 96, Mark Jones wrote to Jon Helis:

 MJ> Steve Austin's bionic limbs and Commander Data's android body can
 MJ> *either* be quite obviously artificial--including the easy-open
 MJ> ports--or they can be realistic enough for close contact without being
 MJ> detectable.  But not both.

Did you see the 2nd episode of the first season of Showtime's new Outer Limits
show, where a female robot who was programmed to be just a companion to the main
character of the story ended up developing emotions, even emotions like
jealousy?  It showed that not only can a cybernetic being blur the line - be
both robotic enough for robotic repairs, *and* human enough to have sex with -
but it can also blur the line between *behavior*, making the leap from
programming to true emotiveness and humanity.  In the end, the female cybernetic
being became so jealous of the main character's real girlfriend, she tried to
kill her.  The episode caused one to wonder where the real line is - or will be
- when such technology exists...

--- GoldED 2.50
 * Origin:  The Moonshadow :*: 916.343.0534 :*: Chico, CA :*: (1:119/50)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 128 of 195
 From : Todd Sullivan                       1:202/720.3     .cê 03 .àp 96 15:18
 To   : Frank Glover
 Subj : Alien threats?
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
The Raven was kicking back and telling sea stories until Inspector General Frank
Glover walked in and said, "Knock off with that Alien threats? and get back to
work!"  There was no choice but to shoot Frank.

 FG>    ".....are irrelevant." This brings to mind the Borg, who are a fine
 FG> example of what you're saying.
 FG>
 FG>    And even Locutius said something about; "We only want to increase
 FG> the quality of life." And Worf said someting along the lines of; "I
 FG> don't *want* my quality of life increased!" (working from memory, now
 FG> mind you)
 FG>
 FG>   Some civilizations are nasty, and know it. Others percieve themselves
 FG> as doing good. The latter could be the worst ones....

Given our experiences on this planet, and some examples in fiction (Harrison
Bergeron, TNG's "Half a Life), I'd say the latter *are* worse: They're on a
mission from God.

Todd Sullivan

... "Two problems of our country--energy and malaise." --Jimmy Carter

-*- ASTG 1.9

--- Spot 1.3a Unregistered
 * Origin: Todd's Spot in the Continuum (1:202/720.3)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 129 of 195
 From : Jon Helis                           1:3800/25       .cê 03 .àp 96 23:39
 To   : All
 Subj : Star Command
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Has anyone heard about Star Command that's airing on UPN next
week in Voyager's timeslot?  What's it supposed to be about?
Anyone seen a review?

Please write back.



... Ignorance is no excuse for the law.
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

--- PCBoard (R) v15.22/M 10
 * Origin: * DataCom BBS - Baton Rouge, La. -  (504)275-2605 - @dcbbs.com *
(1:3800/25)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 130 of 195
 From : Jay Solo                            1:101/175       .pä 28 .åâ 96 08:29
 To   : Kim Wheat
 Subj : Re: TERAFORMING
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 -=> Quoting Kim Wheat to Robert Lidgren <=-

 RL> Here's a question for readers of SF out there. Have you read any
 RL> good books or short stories containing the process of
 RL> TERRAFORMING? The process was used in a Star Trek movie but I
 RL> want to explore the idea further in fiction.

 KW> Or pick up Kim Stanley Robinson's on-going Mars series....
 KW> RED MARS
 KW> GREEN MARS....(are both out now)
 KW> BLUE MARS....not out yet

Awesome books!  I can hardly wait for BLUE MARS.  (Almost as bad as
waiting for A CROWN OF SWORDS.)

These are exactly what I thought to recommend when I saw the question posed.

... Progress is not created by contented People FRANK TYGER
--- Blue Wave v2.10 [NR]
 * Origin: TANGENT BBS 617/364-1576 Boston MA vader.com (1:101/175)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 131 of 195
 From : Mike Tilley                         1:362/669       .îí 04 .àp 96 18:51
 To   : Dungeon Master
 Subj : LORD
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
It was me that asked you about not being able to get into my LORD character.
I was playing it one day then two days later I could not get in. My character
Thundar is still on the list. If you can't help I will understand.
Thanks,
Ricochet


--- Maximus 3.00
 * Origin: The Dungeon...Open 24-hours...<423>875-4137 (1:362/669)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 132 of 195
 From : Ken Mayes                           1:393/7         .òp 05 .àp 96 07:45
 To   : Frank Glover
 Subj : Re: 'bugs' in ST: Generations
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On Sun  3-Mar-1996  2:17p, Frank Glover said to Chris Baughp:

FG>
FG> CB>   FG> The lighting wasn't too good either. Looked like sodium vapor
FG> CB>   FG> street lamps...
FG> CB>
FG> CB>  Did it look to you like 10-forward was all yellow, rather than a
FG> CB>  white room?
FG>
FG>    That, the corridors, the Captain's quaters....
FG>
FG>    That's close to what sodium-vapor lights would do. (As opposed to  the
FG> bluish light of mercury-vapor street lamps.) I suppose I'm spoiled  by the
FG> clear lighting used on the series. I can understand it being  a little
FG> more subdued than that (espically in the ship's `night' cycle)  but not
FG> *that* bad.....
FG>
FG>    Frank
FG>


        I think the effect they were going for was to dramatise the result of
the light from the yellow star they were orbitting filtering in through the
windows. If you think about it, it only makes sense. The series never took into
consideratioon the effects of ambiant light within a solar system on a room with
windows.



--- CNet/3
 * Origin: The Bard's Tavern Denton, TX (817)243-5110 USR 28.8   (1:393/7)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 133 of 195
 From : John Arnold                         3:632/103       .òp 27 .åâ 96 08:19
 To   : Mark Jones
 Subj : Re: Alien threats?
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
--- Maximus/2 3.00
 * Origin: Decadence BBS (3:632/103)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 134 of 195
 From : John Arnold                         3:632/103       .òp 27 .åâ 96 08:30
 To   : Mark Jones
 Subj : Re: Alien threats?
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Hi Mark,

 MJ>> No argument.  But the moron in question seems to think that any
 MJ>> aliens who come knocking on our door will *necessarily* be
 MJ>> physically stronger (by a wide margin) than we are.  Which is a
 MJ>> load of steaming
 MJ>> ****, frankly.  Nobody knows.
 MJ>> That any aliens who can cross interstellar space to kick sand in
 MJ>> our faces will be more advanced scientifically than we are I don't
 MJ>> dispute.  We can't do it.  If they can, obviously they've learned
 MJ>> something we don't know yet.

Or found it by chance.
I remember a story where the aliens come to Earth to trade a FTL drive
for own TV transmission tech after we send a probe to their planet.
They couldn't transmit the quality pics that we could with our probes...

Can't remember who wrote it but a little voice in the back of my head
says A C Clarke...

BFN,
    John.

--- Maximus/2 3.00
 * Origin: Decadence BBS (3:632/103)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 135 of 195
 From : John Arnold                         3:632/103       .åò 29 .åâ 96 15:46
 To   : Robert Lidgren
 Subj : Teraforming
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Hi Robert,

>Here's a question for readers of SF out there.  Have you
>read any good books or
>short stories containing the process of TERRAFORMING?  The process was
>used in a Star Trek movie but I want to explore the idea further in
>fiction. TERRAFORMING is the process of turning an unihabitable  planet
>into one with the environmentet suitable for human habitation without
>the need for life-support, self-contained air-supply, protective suits,
>etc.

You could try Manhattan Transfer by John E Stith.
It doesn't go into how the terraforming is done.
It's more about how a city of humans stop aliens from
terraforming Earth...

Also the Mars books by Kim Stanley Robinson.
Red Mars, Green Mars and Blue Mars.
Blue Mars isn't out yet but is meamt to be RSN...

You could also try Farmer In The Sky by Robert A Heinlein or
Against Infinity by Gregory Benford.  Both are more or less the same
story, but one using machines and the other using genetic engineered
animals...  I think the RAH version was the better done of the two.
But than again I was a lot younger when I read RAH's version and only
read GB's version last year...

BFN,
    John.

--- Maximus/2 3.00
 * Origin: Decadence BBS (3:632/103)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 136 of 195
 From : Bryan Malone                        1:170/810.12    .îí 04 .àp 96 13:19
 To   : Frank Glover
 Subj : 'bugs' in ST: Generations
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On (03 Mar 96) Frank Glover wrote to Marco Catalano...
Ok.. I got one.. The crew of the Big E is really dead.

Why?

The nexus would let you go anywhere and do or be anything you desired
right?  But you were still in the nexus!  The only reason others had
"escaped" was because they were beamed out.

So Picard's second desire was to fix what he messed up.  So he fixed
it.. and thus saved that Solar System.  But it's just a nexus "dream"
He's still in there..  They never said you could will yourself out.
He's stuck...

So everything we see from now on is a dream Picard's having.. Even DS9
since they have brought in Mr. Dorn.. (cause Worf died with the
others) and  ST: Voyager as well.. cause Q brought in Riker..

Or at least my Klingon side likes to believe that.. <G>

... "Ever walk into a Denny's at 3 AM?  Looks like the bar in Star Wars!"

--- PPoint 2.00
 * Origin: The Noble Asecnsion's Big Chair (1:170/810.12)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 137 of 195
 From : Dean Sweatman                       1:396/40        .pä 06 .àp 96 06:39
 To   : All
 Subj : COASTCON XIX Publicity Up
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: InterEcho 1.17 6E010867
 * Originally By: Palewood@aol.com
 * Originally To: Dean Sweatman
 * Originally Re: COASTCON XIX Publicity Up
 * Original Date: 03-05-96  14:30
 * Original Area: i.uucp.email
 * Forwarded by : Blue Wave/DOS v2.20

From: Palewood@aol.com
To: wapt@misnet.com, WLOXTV@aol.com, WNOLTV@aol.com, PaulaPWGNO@aol.com, Date:
Tue, 5 Mar 1996 21:30:51 -0500 Subject: COASTCON XIX Publicity Update

Sadly, we must announce that, as of March 5, 1996, GARY GRAHAM has had to cancel
as our Special Guest at COASTCON. The shooting schedule for the next ALIEN
NATION movie has been moved up several weeks, resulting in a schedule conflict.

BUT THERE IS PLENTY OF GOOD NEWS, TOO! :) For those of you who just tuned in...

Governor Kirk Fordice has officially proclaimed the month of March 1996 as
COASTCON MONTH in the state of Mississippi!

Biloxi Mayor A. J. Holloway has graciously consented to "officially" open the
festivities at COASTCON on Friday, March 22, 1996.

JOHN DOLLAR replaces Tony DiTerlizzi as Artist Guest of Honor.

AND we are pleased to welcome Astronomer CHRISTIAN READY of the Hubble Space
Telescope Science Institute!

BABYLON 5 fans take note! COASTCON's guest list now includes "MOJO", Supervising
Visual Effects Animator for Foundation Imaging! (And get a sneak-peek at F.I.'s
new ABC series HYPERNAUTS, too!)

Fantasy Author and noted Game Designer AARON ALSTON returns to COASTCON--and
will be reading from his current novel, "Sidhe Devil"!

New Orleans Artist Extraordinaire HUGO MONTERO will demonstrate his unique
technique--you have to see it to believe it! (We needed the Fire Marshal for
this one!)
                                         For Further information, please
contact:

Niels W. Erickson
Palewood@aol.com


... Dean Sweatman's Continuing and Relentless quest toward Fuggheadedness

___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20 [NR]


--- InterEcho 1.17
 * Origin: REUNION BBS, Harahan, La., USA (504) 738-5162 Try God (1:396/40)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 138 of 195
 From : Nicolai Shapero                     1:102/524       .òp 05 .àp 96 06:35
 To   : Barton Paul Levenson
 Subj : Alternative energy sources
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
The subject line was NUCLEAR BS.  Now you've changed the subject line, but not
the true topic.  It is OFF TOPIC and has been officially declared so.  Please
stop posting to this subject.

Thank you for your cooperation,

-- Nicolai Shapero, Moderator of the SFFAN echo

--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 139 of 195
 From : Nicolai Shapero                     1:102/524       .òp 05 .àp 96 06:37
 To   : ROBERT LIDGREN
 Subj : TERAFORMING
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Mar 02 23:59>, ROBERT LIDGREN (1:134/10) wrote to BARTON PAUL LEVENSON:

 RL>=================================================================
 RL>=====
 RL>| Robert Lidgren \\\|/// * THE INNER SANCTUM | * The Old Viking
 RL>|
 RL>|                ( o o ) * Writer, Teacher   | * Seeker of the
 RL>Truth |
 RL>|
 RL>=========o00o====(_)====o00o=====================================
 RL>==|
 RL>| e-mail me at------------> robert.lidgren@bbs.logicnet.com
 RL>|
 RL>| My Personal Web Site---->
 RL>http://www.logicnet.com/robert.lidgren   |
 RL>=================================================================
 RL>=====

Multiple line sigs of this sort are more the rule than the exception on the
Internet.  However, on Fidonet, where the cost of carrying the echoes is paid by
individuals as part of their hobby and not as part of a "for profit" business,
it is not.  On this conference, they are specifically forbidden.

Thank you for your cooperation,

-- Nicolai Shapero, Moderator of the SFFAN echo


--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 140 of 195
 From : Kay Shapero                         1:102/524       .òp 05 .àp 96 22:33
 To   : Todd Sullivan
 Subj : Fan/fanatic/fancier
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Mar 02 19:33>, Todd Sullivan (1:202/720.3) wrote to Kay Shapero:

 TS>I've been to a few cons, but I can't make comparisons; one was
 TS>Creation Con back in '80 or '81, and one was the one our
 TS>Starfleet chapter in O-Town hosted.

The second one was probably closer to what I tend to think of as a convention -
the Creation things and similar phenomena are more like professional shows for
which you buy tickets to come and be the audience.  I much prefer the fan-run
conventions where you pay for memberships to come and be the convention; sorta
like a really big party.  Was the Starfleet one a Star Trek convention, or a
general sf convention?  I cut my teeth on Equicons (fan-run convention with a
strong ST presense, but by no means limited to Trek), Westercons, LOScons and
whatnot.  Haven't been to a Worldcon for years since they got so big they just
weren't as much fun any more.  The sort of place where you can sit in the
convention lounge discussing the whichness of the wherefore or how to build a
beer can tower to the Moon (I rather like the bheerstalk myself - you take this
nice looong monofiliment cable and stack bheercans around it and... but I
digress).

... I am Dyslexia of Borg, Prepare to have your ass laminated

--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 141 of 195
 From : Kay Shapero                         1:102/524       .òp 05 .àp 96 22:23
 To   : Robert Siemborski
 Subj : Babylon 5 - Point of no return
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Mar 03 11:05>, Robert Siemborski (1:2604/214) wrote to All:

 RS>For those of you who havn't seen point of no return...
 RS>^
 RS>^
 RS>^
 RS>^
 RS>^
 RS>^
 RS>^
 RS>^
 RS>^
 RS>^
 RS>^
 RS>SPOILER SPACE - Skip your message now...
 RS>v
 RS>v
 RS>v
 RS>v
 RS>v
 RS>v
 RS>v
 RS>v
 RS>v
 RS>v
 RS>v
 RS>v
 RS>v
 RS>v
 RS>v

 RS>OK...  Now I just watched that very fine episode and loved it
 RS>alot!!!! Great episode!  I noticed a few things though and wanted
 RS>to see what people thought on them, basically start up another B5
 RS>discussion that seems to have dissapeared....

By all means let's keep it up in here - and if you want a LOT of B5 discussion,
consider picking up the BABYLON5 echo - it's on the FIDO backbone same as this
thingie.

 RS>* G'Kar was LIGHTING candles for once.  I remember reading
 RS>somewhere that this was a sign of hope.  The last time we saw an
 RS>expression of G'Kar and his candles was when he squished the last
 RS>one out as Narn fell....  Is this a symbol of false hope, or is
 RS>JMS foreshadowing something good about to happen?  I think its
 RS>the former...

I think it's mostly a symbol of G'Kar having regained his own feelings of hope,
even if what he hopes for has been changed.  He acts like a man who's been
released from heavy stress.  I think something good will happen - however I also
think a lot of not-so-good is going to happen first.

 RS>Most importantally, how is Babylon 5 going to react/survive to an
 RS>attack by Earth?  There is the starfury vs. starfury duel in the
 RS>opening credits, but this tells nothing of what will or won't
 RS>happen to B5 itself...

I was surprised when they got out of this one without making the break - if
Severed Dreams doesn't cause it I don't know what will.

 RS>* Is this related to the rest of the Babylon Squared (they find
 RS>B4) storyline that will be resolved in War Without End at the end
 RS>of this season?  Is this perhaps the reason they need B4?

Actually there are several more episodes after War Without End before we reach
the end of the season proper - though it looks like the Idiots That Be are going
to make us wait through the summer for the last few eps.  Again..  Here's what
I've got for the rest of this season.

Severed Dreams
Ceremonies of Light and Dark
A Late Delivery from Avalon
Sic Transit Vir
Ship of Tears
Interludes and Examinations
War Without End, Part 1
War Without end, Part 2
Walkabout
Grey 17 is Missing
And the Rock Cried Out, No Hiding Place
Shadow Dancing
[one more episode JMS won't tell us the title for]

 RS>* The people were happy when General Hague's (spelling?) cruiser
 RS>escaped from the pursuing ones.  Does this mean that B5 will be
 RS>able to win the support of the humans on board?

I think it means that Clarke is not as popular as he'd like to be.  When it
comes to actual breakaway though... who knows?

 RS>* How long will G'Kar continue to believe that what he saw was
 RS>G'Quan (spelling?), or will Kosh never reveal himself to G'Kar?
 RS>Perhaps G'Kar is better off not knowing, being that he has
 RS>written (while in jail) the future Book of G'Kar...

I'm not completely convinced the Vorlons didn't have a hand in G'Quan's era
either...  In any case, no, I don't think Kosh will ever tell him.  I think the
Vorlons are far too self-protective (verging on the paranoid) for that which may
explain why the're still around, come to think of it. :->

Free RMES!  One to a customer...

--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 142 of 195
 From : Mark Jones                          1:105/302.47    .cê 03 .àp 96 23:39
 To   : Frank Glover
 Subj : 'bugs' in ST: Generations
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On (01 Mar 96) Frank Glover wrote to The Raven...

 FG>   I'm inclined to agree, but it wouldn't be the first time. Unless
 FG> there's been some major internal upgrades since Kirk's time, the E-D
 FG> should've had an easier time against the three BOP's in `Yesterday's
 FG> Enterprise' as well....

   Perhaps it should have, but tactics enter into such situations as
well.  A friend of mine videotaped the episode and counted the shots
fired.  Enterprise was hit well over twenty times before they fired
back even once.  Worse, when they Enterprise *does* shoot back,
usually they fire once or twice, then stop...to assess the results
and/or try to talk.

   The Klingons, meanwhile, send three ships, which work together to
hammer the living daylights out of the enemy with *non-stop* barrages
of fire.  Sure, Enterprise-D is a superior vessel--but the Klingons
have vastly superior tactics and strategy.
   It comes as no surprise to *me* that the Klingons were kicking the
Federation's butt in that timeline!


--- PPoint 1.78
 * Origin: Folcroft Sanitarium (hsmith@cure.com) (1:105/302.47)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 143 of 195
 From : Patricia Taber                      1:141/1135      .òp 05 .àp 96 05:36
 To   : Tam Phan
 Subj : Sliders!
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
TP>Sliders is back on FOX! This Friday, before X-Files.

TP>YesYesYesYesYesYes...

  I was so upset when it was gone. I had an Opening to go to last Friday
and missed the first half... and hubby forgot to tape it. Had tape all
set up and everything! MEN!

---
þ CmpQwk #UNREGþ UNREGISTERED EVALUATION COPY

--- OverMail v0.82b
 * Origin: UXB Info-Serve - BBSList & BFDS FDN Headqtrs (1:141/1135)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 144 of 195
 From : Glenn Shaheen                       1:3600/7        .îí 04 .àp 96 06:19
 To   : Jeroen Jacobs
 Subj : 'bugs' in ST: Generations
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
        Why did Picard drag Kirk up to the top of the mountain and
find all thosse rocks to bury him?

        If ya want bugs in Generations, try buying The Nitpicker's
guide to Star Trek:The Next Generation Volume 2. It also has series 7
bugs to. Volume one has 1-6.
-=-
 * KMD PRO * GUM, Stick of: An explosive substance. See also MACGYVER

--- SLMAIL v3.5C  (#1540)
 * Origin: Robotech þ Lake City's Music*Demo BBS þ [904] 758*9477 (1:3600/7)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 145 of 195
 From : Gerry Normandeau                    1:163/430       .îí 04 .àp 96 12:21
 To   : Frank Glover
 Subj : Re: 'bugs' in ST: Genera
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Swinging from the gallows pole The Raven was heard to whisper to Frank Glover,
Re: 'bugs' in ST: Generat!!!!

@RND@>
@RND@>      In "The Search For Spock", Kruge remarks that the Enterprise
@RND@> easily
@RND@> outguns the Bird of Prey.  Logically, the Enterprise-D does the same,
@RND@> even
@RND@> with relatively modern (to a Next Generation starfleet member) Bird
@RND@> of Prey.
@RND@> But instead of hitting the Bird of Prey as hard as possible and
@RND@> cracking
@RND@> the Klingon's shields like an eggshell, the Enterprise barely
@RND@> responds to
@RND@> the attack.
@RND@>
@RND@>      I wanna know *why*...
@RND@>
@RND@>I'm inclined to agree, but it wouldn't be the first time.
@RND@>Unless there's been some major internal upgrades since
@RND@>Kirk's time, the E-D should've had an easier time against
@RND@>the three BOP's in `Yesterday's Enterprise' as well....

|_______________________________________________________________________________
_______________________________________________

I rewatched the episode "Yesterday's Enterprise" and did a bit of
tecnical research. I found that the Bird of Pray desigin is used
in scout class, destroyer class and cruiser class. What hit the
Enterprise in "Yesterday's ..." were 3 Ka'vort class cruisers. These
crusers are just a step below the Vor'cha class battle cruiser.


Gerry.Normandeau@Offsprng.Takeone.co <<>> Royal Hangman To His Majesty
                                          King Bruno The Questionable
... AD&D FLW: "What do you mean `The kobolds have battlemechs'!!?!"
___
 * TLX v4.10 *
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

--- Maximus 2.01wb
 * Origin: Watership Down BBS, Kanata , ON (1:163/430)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 146 of 195
 From : Ronald de Graaf                     2:282/529.99    .îí 04 .àp 96 19:05
 To   : Jeroen Jacobs
 Subj : Re: 'bugs' in ST: Generations
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
according to Ziggy, its 22 Feb 96 and you leaped into Jeroen Jacobs saying to
All:

 JJ> If somebody has found other mistakes (not necessarely in
 JJ> 'generations'), please let me know.

Try and get a hold of the books:

The Nitpickers guide for Next Generation Trekkers &
"       "       "    "   Classic Trekkers

hundreds of pages with Mistakes, Bloopers & changed Premesis for the old ST
series & The Next Generation series...  Great fun!

Ronald de graaf

--- Spot 1.3a Unregistered
 * Origin: ALLE FLIPPOS NAAR FLIPPO.028!!  0503188054 (2:282/529.99@FIDO)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 147 of 195
 From : Todd Sullivan                       1:202/720.3     .îí 04 .àp 96 20:11
 To   : James Walton
 Subj : help!
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Mitch Obrecht was kicking back and telling sea stories until Inspector General
James Walton walked in and said, "Knock off with that help! and get back to
work!"  There was no choice but to shoot James.

 JW> There is a book called "The Forever War" by Joe Haldeman.  The main
 JW> character
 JW> spends a lot of time traveling at the speed of light, so Earth ages a
 JW> couple
 JW> hundred years while he is away.  He is placed in command of a group of
 JW> soldier from his "future."  They call him "The Old Queer" because he is
 JW> hetero and they are all gay.  Being gay was in vogue because it didn't
 JW> create children.

As I recall, they used cloning after a certain point.  It made the news in the
story because the two "mains" got married and had a kid.  Nice commentary on "O
Tempora!  O Mores!", I thought.

Todd Sullivan

... Macintosh:  An Apple of dubious value and distiction.

-*- ASTG 1.9

--- Spot 1.3a Unregistered
 * Origin: Todd's Spot in the Continuum (1:202/720.3)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 148 of 195
 From : Todd Sullivan                       1:202/720.3     .îí 04 .àp 96 20:14
 To   : BOB NIGHTINGALE
 Subj : syzygy
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
I was kicking back and telling sea stories until Inspector General BOB
NIGHTINGALE walked in and said, "Knock off with that syzygy and get back to
work!"  There was no choice but to shoot BOB.

 TS>> <blank stare>  No idea; you might check JPL's web sire, if the have
 TS>> one.

 BN> Only on a web sire do you need virgin control. <Grin>

Kinda figures; I get syzygy spelled right, but goof up the easy ones.

Todd Sullivan

... Talk is cheap.  Using a modem gets expensive.

-*- ASTG 1.9

--- Spot 1.3a Unregistered
 * Origin: Todd's Spot in the Continuum (1:202/720.3)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 149 of 195
 From : Todd Sullivan                       1:202/720.3     .îí 04 .àp 96 20:17
 To   : The Raven
 Subj : Fan/fanatic/fancier
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
I was kicking back and telling sea stories until Inspector General The Raven
walked in and said, "Knock off with that Fan/fanatic/fancier and get back to
work!"  There was no choice but to shoot The.

 TS>> Come on, Kay; you've been to a convention or two, haven't you?
 TS>> You see both kinds, plus the *really* wierd ones, if you get my drift.
 TS>> Ook, ook, drool. <snicker>

 TR>      Do you remember the geekwad in the Captain Kirk shirt who I almost
 TR> threw
 TR> through a window because he wouldn't leave KT alone?  Or were you at
 TR> that convention...

No, I wasn't, and I certainly would have remembered.

FYI, I've been to a total of two (perhaps three) in my life.

Todd Sullivan

... "Nature does nothing uselessly." --Aristotle

-*- ASTG 1.9

--- Spot 1.3a Unregistered
 * Origin: Todd's Spot in the Continuum (1:202/720.3)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 150 of 195
 From : Todd Sullivan                       1:202/720.3     .îí 04 .àp 96 20:23
 To   : Frank Glover
 Subj : TERAFORMING
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Barton Paul Levenson was kicking back and telling sea stories until Inspector
General Frank Glover walked in and said, "Knock off with that TERAFORMING and
get back to work!"  There was no choice but to shoot Frank.

 FG>    Actually, with the stable platform, low gravity and vacuum all the
 FG> way to the surface, I submit that for future industrial and research
 FG> purposes, theMoon is more valuable as it is. I wouldn't terraform it,
 FG> even if I could.
 FG>
 FG>    Now Mars on the other hand.....

The main problems with Mars and the Moon are size; nowhere near enough mass to
hold air at all (moon) or at SAP (Mars).  It'll be domes/underground until the
gravitational constant changes in our favor. :^)

Todd Sullivan

... "M-m-m-My Balogna!" --"Wierd Al" Yankovic

-*- ASTG 1.9

--- Spot 1.3a Unregistered
 * Origin: Todd's Spot in the Continuum (1:202/720.3)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 151 of 195
 From : Frank Glover                        1:2613/477      .pä 06 .àp 96 21:11
 To   : John Giannini
 Subj : Re: Cybersex
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

JG>  to kill her.  The episode caused one to wonder where the real line is
JG>  - or will be - when such technology exists...

   You might want to look up Grant Fjermedal's `The Tomorrow Makers' (chaper 15
`Sleeping with Robots') for some possibilites.

   The movie `Cherry 2000' takes an interesting look at this too, but Cherry
seems deliberately limited to being a kind of robotic geshia, rather than al
all-round AI. It seems a `machine' as intelligent as a human, and as such, a
worthwhile companion, is also sophisticated enough to have its own ideas on
companionship. (See the classic Trek episode `Requeium for Methusalah' with
James Daily as Flint, and his companion Rayna.) And of course there's Data in
`The Measure of a Man,' where, among other things, we got a glimpse of
sentimental `feelings' for the late Tasha Yar. (You may remember the episode
with the exposure to that disinhibiting virus, where they....well, you know.)

   Frank


--- QuickBBS 2.80 GoldBase (Zeta-1)
 * Origin: The Matrix Data Bank BBS, Rochester, Ny (1:2613/477)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 152 of 195
 From : ROBERT LIDGREN                      1:134/10        .pä 06 .àp 96 18:46
 To   : ALL
 Subj : WOMEN AND SF
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
BTW:

When all the discussion about Women and Science Fiction was going on were their
any replies from women?

I would like to hear their P.O.V. too.

This is especially true about the role of women in LEADERSHIP roles.

I've already expressed my views which tend to be supportive of people in
virtually any role if they are competent to carry it out.

Cheers,

-Rob
--- PCBoard 15.2
 * Origin: 32 lines 40 Gig BBS, Realtime InterNet SLIP (403)299-9900 (1:134/10)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 153 of 195
 From : Frank Glover                        1:2613/477      .òp 05 .àp 96 21:53
 To   : Bryan Malone
 Subj : Re: 'bugs' in ST: Generations
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

BM>  On (03 Mar 96) Frank Glover wrote to Marco Catalano...
BM>  Ok.. I got one.. The crew of the Big E is really dead.
BM>
BM>  Why?
BM>
BM>  The nexus would let you go anywhere and do or be anything you desired
BM>  right?  But you were still in the nexus!  The only reason others had
BM>  "escaped" was because they were beamed out.

   (additional explanation deleted for brevity)

   Maybe. The quoting got messed up along the way. I never objected to the fact
that the Enterprise saucer section, and everyone on it were destroyed. The
nature of the Nexus let Picard and Kirk come back just before that, and prevent
it. I have no problem with an acknowledged change in the timeline. I think the
other guy did, butI was responding to another part of his message....

   Frank


--- QuickBBS 2.80 GoldBase (Zeta-1)
 * Origin: The Matrix Data Bank BBS, Rochester, Ny (1:2613/477)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 154 of 195
 From : Kim Wheat                           1:275/102       .pä 06 .àp 96 17:11
 To   : Jay Solo
 Subj : Re: TERAFORMING
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
---<<*<<< Jay dazzled Buc Wheat with these words of wisdom!! >>>**>>----

 KW> Or pick up Kim Stanley Robinson's on-going Mars series....
 KW> RED MARS
 KW> GREEN MARS....(are both out now)
 KW> BLUE MARS....not out yet

 JS> Awesome books!  I can hardly wait for BLUE MARS.  (Almost as bad as
 JS> waiting for A CROWN OF SWORDS.)
 JS> These are exactly what I thought to recommend when I saw the question
 JS> posed.

 I've only read RED MARS so far....have GREEN MARS on the ole stack
 and should get to it (hopefully before BLUE shows up!!) <g>

 Kim :)

___ Blue Wave/DOS v2.30

--- PCBoard (R) v15.22/M 10
 * Origin: SelectiveSource VirginiaBeach,VA 804 471 6776 (1:275/102)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 155 of 195
 From : John Aldrich                        1:362/669       .pä 06 .àp 96 13:35
 To   : Mike Tilley
 Subj : LORD
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Hello Mike!

Answering a msg of <Monday March 04 1996>, from Mike Tilley to Dungeon Master:
This is an international area, so I replied in the "comments" area on my BBS.
Sorry for the wasted bandwidth everyone...
        John
 {dungeon@dngnbbs.com}

... We're tiny, we're toony, we're all a little loony!
--- GoldED/386 2.50+
 * Origin: The Dungeon BBS 28.8/V.34 24-hours 423/875-4137 (1:362/669)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 156 of 195
 From : Nicolai Shapero                     1:102/524       .pä 06 .àp 96 21:04
 To   : John Giannini
 Subj : FILK MODERATOR
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Mar 04 14:51>, John Giannini (1:119/50) wrote to Kay Shapero:

 JG>only found out now?  Or if not, perhaps moderator wives are
 JG>allowed more leeway in such things than the rest of us? Hmmmm.

Maybe you would recall that being rude or ill mannered towards the moderator of
a conference carries its own reward?  And there is a distinct difference between
a reference to a conference and a posting obviously solely for the purposes of
advertisement.

If you're really interested in getting a permanent "invitation to the world", of
course, by all means continue in this fashion.

-- Nicolai Shapero, Moderator of the SFFAN echo

--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 157 of 195
 From : Nicolai Shapero                     1:102/524       .pä 06 .àp 96 21:06
 To   : John Giannini
 Subj : Cybersex
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Mar 04 14:52>, John Giannini (1:119/50) wrote to Mark Jones:

An interesting note, John.  Please recall that your suspension (I just checked)
extended through 23 March 1996.  Your posting was made on the 4th of March.

Relevant extract from the rules follows:

*************************************************************************
                  Rules for SFFAN (Message 3 of 3)

The following individuals have received an "invitation to the world":
They are banned from this echo until the date listed after their
names.  These are "temporary" suspensions of SFFAN echomail priviledges,
but they are total (no read or write access permitted to SFFAN -- all
sysops carrying this echo are asked to comply)

               Name                   End of Suspension
            =============             =================
         John Giannini (1:119/50)     23 March     1996
         Chris Ogniben (1:2604/568)   15 September 1996
         Chris Thurman (1:141/415)     1 May       1996
          Michael Weir (1:147/61)      5 May       1996

**************************************************************************

Oh well, I guess you just earned yourself an eighteen month "invitation to the
world" for posting WHILE YOUR ACCESS WAS SUSPENDED.

Goodbye, John.

-- Nicolai Shapero, Moderator of the SFFAN echo

--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 158 of 195
 From : Nicolai Shapero                     1:102/524       .pä 06 .àp 96 21:09
 To   : John Arnold
 Subj : Re: Alien threats?
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Feb 27 08:30>, John Arnold (3:632/103) wrote to Mark Jones:

 JA>Or found it by chance.
 JA>I remember a story where the aliens come to Earth to trade a FTL
 JA>drive
 JA>for own TV transmission tech after we send a probe to their
 JA>planet.
 JA>They couldn't transmit the quality pics that we could with our
 JA>probes...

 JA>Can't remember who wrote it but a little voice in the back of my
 JA>head
 JA>says A C Clarke...

I believe the title of the story was "LIKE BANQUO'S GHOST" or somesuch.  The
author was Larry Niven...and the aliens were interested in the remote sensor
capabilities as well as the automation technologies.  They blew up the probe
when it was on the "far side" of their world, at or near point of closest
approach...out of fear.

-- Nicolai Shapero, the Mad Russian Sysop of StormGate Aerie


--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 159 of 195
 From : Nicolai Shapero                     1:102/524       .pä 06 .àp 96 21:13
 To   : All
 Subj : 0 of 3: Rules
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
What follows is an abbreviated version of the rules for SFFAN:

Discussions of SF Fandom, Trek, Media, Who, Anime, and any literary
SF topic are "in bounds".  Related technical discussions are also
allowed, but if they go too far afield, ye moderator reserves the
right to shut down the topic at any time without further warning.
Fantasy, by the by, is on topic.  Keep the comments clean and above
the belt -- personal attacks are unacceptable (remember though, that
to attack an idea is NOT the same as attacking the holder of that
idea).

Commercial messages (anything that solicits money) are OFF TOPIC.

The moderator reserves the right to add new rules as the situation
demands.

Violators of rules may be warned in netmail, will be warned in the
echo, and are subject to suspension of SFFAN echomail priviledges
if they refuse to comply with the echo rules.  Sysops who refuse to
police their users (or themselves) on this echo are subject to
having their feeds cut without warning -- yes, I do hold sysops to
a higher standard.  A list of users and sysops on probation and
suspension is included in the detailed rules, which are posted
at roughly one month intervals.

The word of the moderator is the word of god.  Once the edict is
issued, please take any further comments and/or discussions to netmail.
This is not a democracy.  In the event of my disappearance of early
demise, my wife Kay Shapero will take my place.  If both of us
disappear without having time to appoint an heir to the echo, you
will likely have to fight it out with the FidoNet bureaucracy...

-- Nicolai Shapero, Moderator of SFFAN



--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 160 of 195
 From : Nicolai Shapero                     1:102/524       .pä 06 .àp 96 21:13
 To   : All
 Subj : 1 of 3: Rules
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
                  Rules for SFFAN (Message 1 of 3)

This humble (?) individual, also  known as the moderator of the SFFAN
echo, intends that  this echo be  used for discussions of any subject
related to SF fandom. So: Trek, Who, Anime are all acceptable topics.
Of course, any literary sf topic is  obviously "in bounds".   Related
technical discussions  are also allowable, but try not to go off into
"my computer is better than your computer" arguments.  And, oh yes, I
also allow discussions of role playing games (fantasy and otherwise).
After all, RPGers are frequently sffen too!  (Just try to keep things
VAGUELY in the sf/fantasy area in your discussions, please?)  FANTASY
IS ON  TOPIC.  FANTASY IS ON TOPIC.  FANTASY IS ON TOPIC.  And what I
tell you three times is true...

Once ye olde moderator  declares a thread "off topic" PLEASE DROP THE
SUBJECT.  Take any further comments to NETMAIL.  Repeated infractions
of this rule can result in nastygrams from the Moderator...

Personal attacks are to  be kept off  the echo; but  remember that to
attack the idea is NOT the same thing as attacking the holder of that
idea. Keep things "nice" -- no obscene language, no hitting below the
belt.

I'd like people to be  a bit more careful with  the quoting functions
of their editors.  Please do NOT quote entire messages (including the
origin lines).   Quote only what is necessary.   Show a little bit of
kindness  for the sysops who have to pay to transports these messages
all over the world.

Commercial messages (anything that solicits money) are OFF TOPIC.  If
you're going to  make money on the deal, TAKE IT TO NETMAIL.  This is
not a "for sale" echo, nor is it an "investor's hotline" echo.

                     (Continued in next message)


--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 161 of 195
 From : Nicolai Shapero                     1:102/524       .pä 06 .àp 96 21:13
 To   : All
 Subj : 2 of 3: Rules
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
                  Rules for SFFAN (Message 2 of 3)

No one  by the  name of  Arthur Werner,  Sal Devita, or  any variants
thereof is permitted  on this echo.  We do NOT need the Werner-beast,
in ANY of his incarnations, on this echo.  In keeping with the spirit
of this rule, Bob Charles  is also banned from this echo -- for life.
It is requested that no sysop  allow access to or  provide a feed for
SFFAN to this individual.

Hanah Deborah is also banned from this echo for an indefinite period,
as is Graeme Smith.

If message traffic is being gated into this conference from any other
network, then each  message must show in the origin line, the FidoNet
address of the system that is doing the gating so that netmail may be
properly directed to users posting from the other network. The gating
station MUST BE LISTED IN THE FIDONET NODELIST AS AN APPROVED GATEWAY
STATION!

The first time that anyone breaks one of these or other FidoNet rules
I will try and notify them via netmail. Depending upon the infraction,
I may also post a  message in the echo. Repeated infractions may result
in the offender being banned from the echo, either for a limited time or
forever.  I do not need variants on the Werner-beast on this echo!

Sysops are held fully accountable for the actions of all users on their
BBSs.  Failure by a sysop to properly discipline a user, or failure of
a sysop to suspend access of a user on request of the Moderator may
result in loss of access to this echo.  Sysops who violate the rules of
this conference, in spirit or letter, are subject to having their feeds
cut without further warning.  I am fully prepared to go "up the line" on
this one, folks, so DO NOT PUSH YOUR LUCK.  Any sysop who starts playing
"rules lawyer" (and I think you all understand what I'm talking about)
is subject to having his feed cut without further warning.  Feed cuts
will be FOR A MINIMUM OF SIX MONTHS, WITH A MANDATORY ONE YEAR
PROBATIONARY PERIOD FOLLOWING RESTORATION OF ACCESS.  Any violation of
the rules in spirit or letter during the probationary period makes the
offending sysop subject to permanent loss of feed.

                     (Continued in next message)



--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 162 of 195
 From : Nicolai Shapero                     1:102/524       .pä 06 .àp 96 21:14
 To   : All
 Subj : 3 of 3: Rules
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
                  Rules for SFFAN (Message 3 of 3)

In the event that I become unable to continue as moderator for SFFAN,
Kay Shapero will serve in  my stead unless  and until she  decides to
step down.  This is not a democracy.   No one gets to vote on who the
moderator will be.

High order ASCII characters (IBM graphics characters) are not allowed
in messages on this echo. They cause great grief for a lot of systems
and their use is to be avoided.

Special characters or  strings as in those  used for Postscript, TeX,
and similar page description languages are not to be used in SFFAN. I
would much prefer to see standard BBS practices followed (fake under-
score or all caps for emphasis).

These rules are  not to be taken as all inclusive.  The moderator re-
serves the right to add rules any time he deems it necessary to main-
tain the character of the echo.

For those readers  out there who think that SF fandom is just bit too
strange for words, just zip over to one of the OTHER conferences;  it
will only get weirder here.

The following people are on probation for rules violations or other
problems on the echo:

               Name                   End of Probation
            =============             =================

The following individuals have received an "invitation to the world":
They are banned from this echo until the date listed after their
names.  These are "temporary" suspensions of SFFAN echomail priviledges,
but they are total (no read or write access permitted to SFFAN -- all
sysops carrying this echo are asked to comply)

               Name                   End of Suspension
            =============             =================
         John Giannini (1:119/50)     23 September 1997
         Chris Ogniben (1:2604/568)   15 September 1996
         Chris Thurman (1:141/415)     1 May       1996
          Michael Weir (1:147/61)      5 May       1996

The following is a list of STATIONS that for which the feed of SFFAN
has been ordered cut.  Such cuts are for a minimum 6 month period,
and have additional probationary periods following restoration
of service:

               Name                End of Suspension
            =============          =================

-- Nicolai Shapero, the slightly bemused sysop of StormGate Aerie
                    Moderator of the SFFAN echo.


--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 163 of 195
 From : Nicolai Shapero                     1:102/524       .pä 06 .àp 96 21:15
 To   : All
 Subj : Rules
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Folks may note that there have been minor changes in the rules set:  One person
is no longer on probation, one person has been suspended, and one person has
been given an even LONGER suspension for posting while on suspension.

The mills of the Gods grind slowly, but they grind exceedingly fine...

-- Nicolai Shapero, Moderator of the SFFAN echo

--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 164 of 195
 From : Chris Carter                        1:105/290.23    .òp 05 .àp 96 03:42
 To   : Robert Siemborski
 Subj : B5 -> Voyager Connection?
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On (24 Feb 96) Robert Siemborski wrote to All...

 RS> Is it just me or was the person who played Brother Edward (the
 RS> black rose killer) in Passing Through Gesename (spelling?) on
 RS> babylon 5 the same person who make tuvok go nuts on that recent
 RS> voyager episode? It's a strange coincidence if they are the same
 RS> person...  The parts were very similar.

At the moment, B5 and ST:Any_Iteration share the same casting director.
Hence, you get to see some of the same faces guest starring on both
shows.

Chris - carter@teleport.com


... GUINNESS.PNT not found, operator not loaded.

--- PPoint 2.00
 * Origin: Grid Epsilon Coords. 105x290x23 (1:105/290.23)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 165 of 195
 From : Frank Swarbrick                     1:104/825       .åò 07 .àp 96 21:19
 To   : All
 Subj : scene
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12  92-0022
There's a scene in the main credits that shows Shadow fire hitting a
big round thing that some (I think) have misinterpreted as being part
of the station.  I was just rewatching "The Coming of Shadows" just
now and it is actually part of the Shadow attack on the Narn colony on
sector 14 (or wherever).

Just thought I'd point it out.  (Of course, I could be the only one
who thought it might be part of B5! <g>)

        Frank

... I just want to be left alone.  Is that so wrooooong?
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12
 * Origin: The Bailey Information Exchange BBS, 28.8k v.fc  (1:104/825.0)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 166 of 195
 From : James Walton                        1:129/260       .ÿò 08 .àp 96 20:15
 To   : Todd Sullivan
 Subj : Re: help!
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
RE "The Forever War"

 > As I recall, they used cloning after a certain point.  It
 > made the news in the story because the two "mains" got married
 > and had a kid.  Nice commentary on "O Tempora!  O Mores!",
 > I thought.


Yes, and they settled down on the planet Middle Finger.

--- Opus-CBCS 1.73a
 * Origin: ConFluence '96:  Return to Mars! (1:129/260.0)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 167 of 195
 From : Elizabeth H. Penrose                1:129/26        .ÿò 08 .àp 96 16:58
 To   : The Raven
 Subj : Alien threats?
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
For aliens finding Earth's atmosphere "a poisonous hellhole", read John
Christopher's _The City of Gold & Lead_.  (OK, you can read the other two books
in that trilogy if you want.)

--- Maximus 3.01
 * Origin: SoundingBoard, Pittsburgh PA (1:129/26)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 168 of 195
 From : Barton Paul Levenson                1:129/26        .ÿò 08 .àp 96 17:31
 To   : Frank Glover
 Subj : Re: TERAFORMING
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Well, you're probably right.  (About not terraforming the Moon.)  Another
drawback is that humans may be unable to permanently colonize any planet with
less than 0.28 g, due to osteoporosis and blood electryte effects.  That would
rule out Luna (0.165 g) but would allow Mars (0.38 g).

--- Maximus 3.01
 * Origin: SoundingBoard, Pittsburgh PA (1:129/26)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 169 of 195
 From : Barton Paul Levenson                1:129/26        .ÿò 08 .àp 96 17:33
 To   : Robert Lidgren
 Subj : TERAFORMING
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
I'm afraid I'm not on the 'Net and don't really have access to E-mail.  Can you
think of a way for me to get it to you via a local BBS?

--- Maximus 3.01
 * Origin: SoundingBoard, Pittsburgh PA (1:129/26)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 170 of 195
 From : Barton Paul Levenson                1:129/26        .ÿò 08 .àp 96 17:34
 To   : Nicolai Shapero
 Subj : Alternative energy sources
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
I will certainly drop it if you think I was out of bounds.  But are all energy
sources off-topic because nuclear is?  That rather seems like overkill to me.
Your decision of course, O my moderator and O the delight of my eyes.

--- Maximus 3.01
 * Origin: SoundingBoard, Pittsburgh PA (1:129/26)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 171 of 195
 From : Barton Paul Levenson                1:129/26        .ÿò 08 .àp 96 18:24
 To   : Todd Sullivan
 Subj : TERAFORMING
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
I disagree.  Mars, with its 0.38 g surface gravity, is perfectly capable of
holding a massive atmosphere against Jeans escape for geologically long periods
of time.

--- Maximus 3.01
 * Origin: SoundingBoard, Pittsburgh PA (1:129/26)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 172 of 195
 From : Will Morgan                         1:3819/128.103  .óá 09 .àp 96 03:28
 To   : All
 Subj : QLeap A.E.G. now for Win/Win95 & OS/2 PM!
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
                            The QUANTUM LEAP
                        Automated Episode Guide
                    Version 1.0 for M$/DOS or OS/2!

                    NEW!!! Version 1.0w for Windows!
           NEW!!! Version 1.0 for the OS/2 Presentation Manager!

              What is it?

              The 32 bit Extended DOS/DOS4GW or OS/2 text mode
              versions are menu driven programs that make it easy
              to view info on any of the QUANTUM LEAP episodes!

              The 16 bit Windows & 32 bit OS/2 PM versions will take
              full advantage of their respective operating system's
              easy to use features such as drop down menus and
              dialogue boxes.

              What info does it contain?

              It lists the name of the Quantum Leap episode, the
              airdate, the writer, the director, abbreviated guest
              star list and a brief synopsis of the plot. It also
              lists who Sam "leaps" into for the episode, the date
              he "leaps" to and any "historical" cross-references.

              Why use this program?

              Don't you want to be a slave to technology? And,
              isn't it about time you did something nice for
              yourself for a change? If you're a QUANTUM LEAP fan
              and use MS/DOS, Windows/Win95 or OS/2, this program
              is for you!

              How can I get it?

              You can download the new QUANTUM LEAP A.E.G. from the
              FTP site at ftp.cleaf.com filename QLPDOS10.ZIP (DOS),
              QLPOS210.ZIP (OS/2 Text), QLP_PM10.ZIP (OS/2 PM) or
              QLPWIN10.ZIP (Windows) under the following path
              /pub/mst3k/snake-byte/NON-MST3K

              World Wide Web browsers can be pointed to this URL:
              http://www.cleaf.com/~wmorgan/qleap.html

              Both OS/2 versions can also be found at the OS/2 FTP
              sites ftp.cdrom.com or hobbes.nmsu.edu - paths may vary

              The DOS & Windows versions can also be found at the huge
              SimTel DOS site ftp.coast.net or any of it's mirror sites
              under the paths /SimTel/msdos/entertn/qlpdos12.zip and
              /SimTel/win3/entertn/qlpwin10.zip

              Fidonet folks can FREQ or download this program from one
              of these BBSs:

              Board Name           Fido Address    Phone Number
              ========================================================
              X-Capade BBS          1:3819/190     1-903-793-0166
              ========================================================

              Also available from Snake-Byte Incorporated:

              DOS, Windows, OS/2 Text & OS/2 PM versions of the
              Automated Episode Guides for these shows

                       *  Mystery Science Theater 3000
                       *  The X-Files
                       *  Star Trek: The Next Generation
                       *  Star Trek: The Original Series
                       *  Star Trek: Deep Space Nine
                       *  The Simpsons
                       *  Babylon 5

... Cloverleaf FTP site's new address is: FTP://ftp.cleaf.com!

--- PPoint 2.00
 * Origin: Automated EpGuides by Snake-Byte Inc. (1:3819/128.103)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 173 of 195
 From : Angela Smith                        1:109/611       .óá 09 .àp 96 15:52
 To   : All
 Subj : Octavia Butler
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Does anyone here read Octavia Butler?? What do you think of her Xenogenesis
Series?? And does she have anything new coming out??

.NOTE: IceEdit 1.60 E17688
--- QuickBBS 2.80 GoldBase (Zeta-1)
 * Origin: AD Message BBS/10th Year Online! (703)241-1826 (1:109/611@FIDONET)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 174 of 195
 From : Kay Shapero                         1:102/524       .ÿò 08 .àp 96 09:02
 To   : ROBERT LIDGREN
 Subj : WOMEN AND SF
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Mar 06 18:46>, ROBERT LIDGREN (1:134/10) wrote to ALL:

 RL>When all the discussion about Women and Science Fiction was going
 RL>on were their any replies from women?

Leseee - there were me, Ecarey and probably a number of others as well.  Both
phenomena exist, and many of the former like the latter, preferably when it
doesn't relentlessly present all female characters as twits.  Or all male
characters as twits for that matter.  Come to think of it, I don't like very
many twits in my fiction, regardless of sex or species.  I encounter too many of
'em in the "Real world".

--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 175 of 195
 From : Don Bach                            1:3632/65       .óá 09 .àp 96 16:56
 To   : Chris Ogniben
 Subj : clarification
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Chris, Check your history book for Admiral Grace Hopper.  You would not have a
computer like you do now without her leadership.

Women are just as capable of being strong, being leaders and having great ideas
just like men are, many times they do better!  Their leadership in our future
needs to be encouraged.

Don

P.S. My wife was at one time a bouncer in a country-western bar.  Could you
handle that job?

--- Maximus 3.01
 * Origin: No Regrets, Clinton, MS (601)924-8247 9P-5A (1:3632/65)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 176 of 195
 From : Marco Catalano                      2:2802/152.3    .pä 06 .àp 96 23:12
 To   : mitch obrecht
 Subj : help!
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Hello mitch!


Monday February 26 1996, mitch obrecht writes to all:

 mo> I've heard several people talk about a story that's probably 10 years old
 mo> or more... the basis of this story is that there is someone in the armed
 mo> forces (air force, I think) who is hetero, and somehow gets transported
 mo> to the future (400 years or so, I think).  Everyone (or the majority) in
 mo> this future is gay or lesbian (even bi is considered a no-no) and in one

Erm, just one (probaly stupid) question about this.
How could mankind have survived?

I mean, when _EVERYBODY_ is gay or lesbian how are baby's born?

It does sounds like a rather interesting book however.


Greetings from Marco
BYE!



... Two most common elements found in the universe: Hydrogen & Stupidity.

--- FMail/386 1.02
 * Origin: Zeta Reticuli. There's life, Jim! But not as... (2:2802/152.3)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 177 of 195
 From : Todd Sullivan                       1:202/720.3     .ÿò 08 .àp 96 19:19
 To   : Frank Glover
 Subj : 'bugs' in ST: Generations
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Bryan Malone was kicking back and telling sea stories until Inspector General
Frank Glover walked in and said, "Knock off with that 'bugs' in ST: Generations
and get back to work!"  There was no choice but to shoot Frank.

 FG>    Maybe. The quoting got messed up along the way. I never objected to
 FG> the fact that the Enterprise saucer section, and everyone on it were
 FG> destroyed. The nature of the Nexus let Picard and Kirk come back just
 FG> before that, and prevent it. I have no problem with an acknowledged
 FG> change in the timeline. I think the other guy did, butI was responding
 FG> to another part of his message....

From what Guinan told Picard ("I never left the Nexus", I think), I'd say that
there's still some part of Kirk and Picard remaining there, waiting to return
when needed.

Todd Sullivan

... Your motherboard wears combat boots...

-*- ASTG 1.9

--- Spot 1.3a Unregistered
 * Origin: Todd's Spot in the Continuum (1:202/720.3)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 178 of 195
 From : Silky Rose                          1:271/236       .óá 09 .àp 96 10:58
 To   : All
 Subj : A third one? Details please...
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE 1.11+
Hi, I'm new here, (like duh, as if you couldn't figure that out, right?)
and figured that this might be the right place to ask this question
which popped up last night.  My husband was watching "Movie Magic" on
the Discovery Channel last night and they featured effects from the
movie "The Neverending Story III".  This kinda threw me, because I
didn't even know they were thinking about making a 3rd one much less
have done filming on it.  So the question is:  Is it a future release or
has it already been released?  If already released, is it on video yet?
Just had to find out and figured someone in here might know the answer,
if anyone would.  Thanks for any info you can give me.

Pj Estes
aka Silky Rose

--- GEcho 1.11+
 * Origin: THE TIME MACHINE (804)599-6401 (1:271/236.0)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 179 of 195
 From : Michael Harper                      1:123/10        .óá 09 .àp 96 11:22
 To   : All
 Subj : Starship Troopers
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
This was in the paper this morning, reprinted from _Hollywood Reporter_;

        Ironside may get "Starship Troopers" role

        Michael Ironside is in final negotiations to star in Paul
        Verhoeven's sci-fi action film _Starship Troopers_. Ironside
        last worked with Verhoeven on his hit sci-fi epic _Total
        Recall_.

        Ironside joins a cast headed by Casper Van Dien (_James Dean:
        Race With Destiny_) that includes Jake Busey, Neil Patrick
        Harris, Denise Richards, Dina Meyer and Clancy Brown.

        Ironside's feature credits include Free Willy, Scanners, Father
        Hood, Top Gun and Highlander 2.


Okay. Most of those names are unfamiliar even to me, but Harris starred
in Doogie Howser, Jake Busey is Gary's kid, and Clancy Brown is a known
quantity to anyone who's a Buckaroo Banzai fan, or for that matter a
Highlander fan; he's the original Kurgan. Ironside has a talent for
playing intense, gimlet-eyed types; any guesses who he'll be cast as?


... "Bugs, Mr. Rico! Sagans of 'em..."
--- RA/FD/FMail
 * Origin: The Eclectic Fox -- Memphis TN  (901)327-1008 (1:123/10)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 180 of 195
 From : Channon Lang                        1:130/809       .cê 10 .àp 96 04:35
 To   : Tony Trujillo
 Subj : Re: Sliders is BACK!
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE 1.11+
From a dark bottomless pit,Tony Trujillo screamed up to All about
 Sliders is BACK!..

 TT> ...and so am I! :^)

 TT> I haven't had a chance to watch it but I'm extremely happy
 TT> to hear that SLIDERS (one of the best neatest little SF shows
 TT> since QUANTUM LEAP) is back on the air. Are there any fans (other
 TT> than Kay Shapero) of the show who'd like to discuss it? I was very
 TT> pleased to hear that they were able to get all of the cast back for
 TT> the new shows...especially JRD.

 Hi Tony! Long time no see! You know, I'm glad Sliders is back. I really
 enjoyed the show previously, but I'm disappointed that Strange Luck is gone.
 I really liked it too. And I'm gonna have to watch Sliders to see if the
 sacrifice was worth it. From what I remember about it from the last time I
 watched it, it was a show with great potiental, but not well utilized. I
 guess we'll see, eh?

 Channon



... Computer Malfunction . . . Nut Loose In Operator's Chair!
--- MachoEcho 0.5ñ
 * Origin: The State of Confusion * Arlington Tx * 817-274-1920 * (1:130/809)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 181 of 195
 From : Lawrence E Dunlap                   1:106/2927      .cê 03 .àp 96 21:08
 To   : Henry Triplett
 Subj : weird tv
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

HT>.ED> Gerry Anderson's best hope for mixing miniature model animation and
HT>.ED> live action was *Space: 1999* but it died a premature syndication
HT>.ED> ratings death because of continunity flaws.

HT>Yeah.  Though some episodes were quite decent in what they tried to
HT>portray.

HT>*Astroboy*!  I haven't heard that name since...well, anyway, it's been
HT>awhile.  While weak on science, they were both more entertaining than some
HT>of the drivel I've seen put forth lately as children's TV.

HT>I even had a pair of sneakers that made the same sound as Astroboy did
HT>when he walked.  (Not by design, just sheer luck.)  I think he's out on
HT>tape somewhere for a phenominal sum of money.  Didn't he grow up to
HT>become Speed Racer? :)

   Astroboy's driving Speed Racer's car during confrontations with
baddies possibly would have assisted Speed in doing bad guys in much
less violently!  :D

   Your comment re *Rocky Jones*:

HT>I must say, I don't remember him at all.  And, I missed the reruns, too. :(

   Rocky reran the first three months of KHTV's operational life. After
the station got sufficient quantities of recent syndicated programs,
Rocky was quietly moved off the scene.

HT>.ED>Is *Rocky Jones* availabl .  .  ? I understand that *Tom
HT>.EDCorbett* was assisted by Robert Heinlein and even based on *Space
HT>.ED>Cadet* the second Heinlein juvenile SF novel and I'd be intersted
HT>.ED>in it too.

HT>I don't know.  I wouldn't mind seeing those shows again.  While the F/X
HT>such as they were, are crude by today's standards, the stories certainly
HT>kept you on the edge of your seat.

   Wonderous were the infrequent gems of science fiction dramas and
kidvid dramas in the early years of American SF on TV due to the space
program. *Supercar* was fairly realistic as a Gerry Anderson adaption of
an Robert A. Heinlein Tricar of his juvenile & adult novels and novellas
of the 1950's and 1960's.

   *Fireball XL-5* presaged the winged/manned atmospheric reentry
spacecraft of the 1990's and presaged interstellar flight in a kidvid
way.

   While *Astroboy* proved to be science fantasy, the level of thought
required of a 10 year old about choices and values by Astroboy in his
flights of mercy were and are rare in kidvid SF even today

HT>..."There he goes, ASTROBOY...."

I wonder how much of Astroboy might be recycliable TV Science Fantasy
now? Probably not because *Astroboy* and all such shows mentioned in our
thread were very violent according to 1996 US and Candaian children's TV
standards.
Lawrence E Dunlap
(1:106/2927)
Internet E-mail "PostOakLED@AOL.COM"
___
* UniQWK #5136*  'What does intelligence have to do with politics?'

--- Alexi/Mail 2.02b (#10000)
 * Origin: Computer Living F'n BBS-Houston, TX 713-444-2927 (1:106/2927)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 182 of 195
 From : David Johnston                      1:342/14        .óá 09 .àp 96 01:19
 To   : John Giannini
 Subj : Cybersex
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
-> On 21 Feb 96, Mark Jones wrote to Jon Helis:
->
-> MJ> Steve Austin's bionic limbs and Commander Data's android body can
-> MJ> *either* be quite obviously artificial--including the easy-open
-> MJ> ports--or they can be realistic enough for close contact without
-> being MJ> detectable.  But not both.
-> Did you see the 2nd episode of the first season of Showtime's new
-> Outer Limits show, where a female robot who was programmed to be just
-> a companion to the mai character of the story ended up developing
-> emotions, even emotions like jealousy?  It showed that not only can a
-> cybernetic being blur the line - be both robotic enough for robotic
-> repairs, *and* human enough to have sex with -

That depends.  Where were her seams?

--- PCBoard (R) v15.21/100
 * Origin: Freddy's Place - Edm. AB - 28.8K (403) 456-4241 (1:342/14)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 183 of 195
 From : David Johnston                      1:342/14        .óá 09 .àp 96 01:23
 To   : Todd Sullivan
 Subj : Teraforming
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
-> The main problems with Mars and the Moon are size; nowhere near
-> enough mass to hold air at all (moon) or at SAP (Mars).  It'll be
-> domes/underground until the gravitational constant changes in our
-> favor. :^)

Mars would lose air, true, but at a rate that would require no
corrective measures for thousands of years, if we could get it's
atmospheric pressure up to an acceptable level in the first place.

--- PCBoard (R) v15.21/100
 * Origin: Freddy's Place - Edm. AB - 28.8K (403) 456-4241 (1:342/14)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 184 of 195
 From : Kevin Ahearn                        1:109/104       .cê 10 .àp 96 19:38
 To   : Kay Shapero
 Subj : How does Catherine survive into new B&B miniseries??
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 KS> On <Mar 07 19:19>, Gary Warren (1:382/92.7) wrote to All:

 GW>Fine and dandy.  But will the writers come up with a dodge of how
 GW>she survived her autopsy performed just after the aforementioned
 GW>two-hour 1989 season debut?

 KS> Probably just say it didn't happen.  Alternately, of
 KS> course, they may have decided to cash in on a certain
 KS> popular trend and we'll find that she did die.. but
 KS> got better and now grows fangs on dark nights and never
 KS> comes out in the daytime and...

 KS> No, No!  Put that down!  AAAAARrrrrrrgggggghhhhhh!!!!!!!

Or, perhaps, we'll find that after she died, she mysteriously returned to life
and is now going about with a sword decapitating anyone who's had the same
experience...

That should draw their fire, Kay...RUN FOR IT! :)

--Kevin

--- Maximus/2 3.01
 * Origin: ShanErin (1:109/104)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 185 of 195
 From : Jean.Paul Wissink                   2:281/703.3     .cê 10 .àp 96 16:56
 To   : All
 Subj : B5 episode list
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Hello All,

Here in Holland we are currently in season 2 of Bab5. Is there an episode list
available which covers *all* seasons from Bab5 up until the latest episode in
the States ? Could someone mail me this list (netmail would be fine: don't
attach it :-) ?

It would be nice if it was something like the reviews that Tim Lynch did of
ST:TNG and DS9.

(Bab5-ing)Grtngs,
Jean.Paul Wissink

... "Darnit Jim, I'm a doctor, not a barber." - Duck Trek
--- Locutus BorgToss/2
 * Origin: Computers don't make mistakes, but foolish people do. (2:281/703.3)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 186 of 195
 From : Nicolai Shapero                     1:102/524       .óá 09 .àp 96 07:52
 To   : Timothy H. Willis
 Subj : Re: Star Trek Generations
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Mar 05 11:36>, Timothy H. Willis (1:306/32) wrote to Nicolai Shapero:

 TH>  So, are your works still in print?  I'm going to have to go get
 TH>copies and read 'em.
 TH>  Well, see you around...
 TH>  Timothy H. Willis

FGU went belly up a few years ago, so OTHER SUNS and THE ALDERSON YARDS SHIPBOOK
are out of print.  You can still find copies floating around, though, if you
look hard enough.

-- Nicolai Shapero, the Mad Russian Sysop of StormGate Aerie

--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 187 of 195
 From : Nicolai Shapero                     1:102/524       .óá 09 .àp 96 07:54
 To   : Gary Warren
 Subj : How does Catherine survive into new B&B miniseries??
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Mar 07 19:19>, Gary Warren (1:382/92.7) wrote to All:

 GW>Fine and dandy.  But will the writers come up with a dodge of how
 GW>she
 GW>survived her autopsy performed just after the aforementioned
 GW>two-hour
 GW>1989 season debut?  I'll be bumfuzzled if we're not subjected to
 GW>another
 GW>"Pam Ewing" dream (DALLAS) or another clone story (the projected
 GW>ALIEN 4
 GW>movie).

Frankly, I'd just say "the whole last season didn't exist, it wasn't a
dream...even a bad one...it just DIDN'T HAPPEN".  Make for a lot more pleasant
story, frankly...

-- Nicolai Shapero, the Mad Russian Sysop of StormGate Aerie

--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 188 of 195
 From : Kay Shapero                         1:102/524       .óá 09 .àp 96 12:39
 To   : Tony Trujillo
 Subj : Sliders is BACK!
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Mar 07 14:38>, Tony Trujillo (1:280/341) wrote to All:

 TT>I haven't had a chance to watch it but I'm extremely happy
 TT>to hear that SLIDERS (one of the best neatest little SF shows
 TT>since QUANTUM LEAP) is back on the air. Are there any fans (other
 TT>than Kay Shapero) of the show who'd like to discuss it?

Gee thanks - don't want to talk to me do you?  :->

I agree btw - this is FUN.  And like you I'm glad to see they're all back.  The
show just wouldn't be the same without any of them (especially JRD).

Get a vcr and set it to tape the thing if you're that busy - the first episode
was a sort of Wizard of Oz thingie done rather better than they usually are, and
I've not watched the second yet myself, but I've got it on tape.

--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 189 of 195
 From : Kay Shapero                         1:102/524       .óá 09 .àp 96 12:41
 To   : Gary Warren
 Subj : How does Catherine survive into new B&B miniseries??
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Mar 07 19:19>, Gary Warren (1:382/92.7) wrote to All:

 GW>Fine and dandy.  But will the writers come up with a dodge of how
 GW>she survived her autopsy performed just after the aforementioned
 GW>two-hour 1989 season debut?

Probably just say it didn't happen.  Alternately, of course, they may have
decided to cash in on a certain popular trend and we'll find that she did die..
but got better and now grows fangs on dark nights and never comes out in the
daytime and...

No, No!  Put that down!  AAAAARrrrrrrgggggghhhhhh!!!!!!!

--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 190 of 195
 From : Kay Shapero                         1:102/524       .óá 09 .àp 96 12:53
 To   : Timothy H. Willis
 Subj : Writers
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Mar 05 11:52>, Timothy H. Willis (1:306/32) wrote to Kay Shapero:


 TH>  Well, I *did* sell an essay on "Podcayne of Mars" when Baen
 TH>Books ran their "vote" to determine which of the two endings should be
TH>*the* ending of the book.  Got $50 for it, and it's printed in the
 TH>current publication pb on the shelves right now.

There ya go - you published and you got paid for it - you're officially a dirty
pro.  No excuses, and death will not release you.  :->  (What did you conclude?
Frankly I think RAH's "real" ending as published in _Grumblings from the Grave_
fits the story better, even if it's far less pleasant.)  [you might like the SF
echo btw - there are a lot of writers who frequent that echo, professional or
otherwise.]

 TH>But, I do see your point.  Maybe I should just add the word
 TH>"professional" to "writer" to differentiate between those who have
 TH>sold and those who
 TH>are trying to (or just like to put words on paper for their own
 TH>enjoyment).

Even at that, there are those who write for a living, and those who write as
amateurs, but do sell stuff on occasion.

 TH>  Well, see you around... want to talk about the works of H. Beam
 TH>Piper some day?  Or David Weber's Honor Harrington books?

I like H. Beam Piper; particularly Space Viking, the Paratime Police series and
the Lord Kalvan books.  I also think that the pair who have tried to continue
the story started in the latter missed the point violently, given Piper's stated
opnion of "historical inevitability".  What I'd like to have seen if he'd lived
long enough to write it would have been what was going to come next in the
Paratime saga, given some of the parallels between the Paratime society and
events in Kalvan timeline.

Never have been all that fond of David Weber's writing, so haven't read the
Honor Harrington books.

--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 191 of 195
 From : Kay Shapero                         1:102/524       .óá 09 .àp 96 12:51
 To   : JOHN ROSS
 Subj : Re: Help
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Feb 27 21:14>, JOHN ROSS (1:116/1977@fidonet) wrote to KAY SHAPERO:

 JR>Thanks Kay,Actually I did see it ,but not until I had sent my
 JR>second letter to you .Thanks alot.

You're welcome!  Hope you liked it.  (Wanna see some of *my* songs?)

--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 192 of 195
 From : Tam Phan                            1:143/362       .òp 05 .àp 96 17:27
 To   : Marco Catalano
 Subj : Sliders!
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 On 03-01-96 Marco Catalano wrote to Tam Phan...

 MC> Hello Tam!
 MC> Monday February 26 1996, Tam Phan writes to All:
 MC>  TP> Sliders is back on FOX! This Friday, before X-Files.
 MC> Can you tell me if I can receive FOX with a dish, Tam?
 MC> I live in the Netherlands so if Fox is transmitting on the ASTRA
 MC> satellite it
 MC> must be possible to get it.
 MC> Greetings from Marco
 MC> BYE!

     I'm really sorry for responding so late.. I don't know if
     you can or not.. perhaps someone else can answer that..
---
 * OFFLINE 1.58 * Take my advice, I don't use it anyway.
 * Origin:  (1:143/362)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 193 of 195
 From : Charles Daniels                     1:203/42        .cê 10 .àp 96 13:27
 To   : Rod Mammitzsch
 Subj : Sci fi
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 > Hey there?  What is the club?  And I too am a member of an SF
 > group..but we deal mainly with British Sci-Fi...interested?

I dunno if he was but I am.  I am interested in Doctor Who,
Hitchhiker's Guide, Red Dwarf, and most other British SF!

--- FMail 0.98
 * Origin: Deep Thought: RedDwarf,ST,SF, FREE MEAT!  916-452-9501 (1:203/42)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 194 of 195
 From : Sarah Hargreaves                    3:620/247       .pä 06 .àp 96 09:10
 To   : All
 Subj : QUARK!
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Does anyone out there remember this classic?  (Someone might of discussed
it in this net at an earlier stage (or recently for that matter), but I
couldnt be bothered looking) :).

I was having a discussion about it the other day with some workmates, and
we couldn't remember all the character names.. Quark (of course), Gene and
Gene.. but thats all we could come up with (slack huh?).. can someone out
there come to my rescue of sleepness nights of trying to remember the
character names?

Thanks!

Sarah

--- FMail/386 1.0g
 * Origin: Listen! Can you smell something?? Sonic BBS (61 6 2533704)
(3:620/247)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 195 of 195
 From : Wes Yahola                          1:123/569       .cê 10 .àp 96 17:29
 To   : Tony Trujillo
 Subj : Sliders is BACK!
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE 1.11+

 -=> Tony Trujillo had this to say to All <=-

 TT> ...and so am I! :^)

 TT> I haven't had a chance to watch it but I'm extremely happy
 TT> to hear that SLIDERS (one of the best neatest little SF shows

         Yeh! I rejoiced when I heard the news. The two episodes have been just
as good as the early run. I'm a sucker for alt. universe stories anyway (Like
Harry Turtledove's stuff) so this fits me great! :>

... Discoveries are made by not following instructions.
--- Blue Wave/RA v2.12 [NR]
 * Origin: 9 out of 5 Schizos prefer Lunatic Fringe! 382-LUST (1:123/569)

Ä [31] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 1 of 249
 From : Timothy H. Willis                   1:306/32        .åò 07 .àp 96 16:33
 To   : The Raven
 Subj : Re: Star Trek Generations
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
* Say, ain't that The Raven & Timothy H. Willis abusin' that jackalope? *

 THW> Okay Chris... you claim to be a writer?  Cite your published
 THW> work.  Otherwise, call yourself a writer wannabe.  As a person who is
 THW> struggling to sell what I write, and one who *does not* presume to
 THW> declare myself to be a writer, until I make that sale, I take umbrage
 THW> at your declaration above.

 TR> Got news.  I've made a couple of sales and don't call myself a
 TR> writer. Won't, either, until 75%+ of my income is provided by my
 TR> writing.
 TR> Jack Butler

    Good for you...
    Actually, I was getting *real* tired of the character and his
attitude(s) about women, humanity, and SF, so I popped out of my lurk
mode and took a swipe at him.
    I've made *a* sale... sort of.  An essay I wrote on which ending
of "Podkayne of Mars" should be the definitive one was a "winner", and I
got a $50 check for it.  It's in the newest pb print of the book, along
with a bunch of others.
    I have to admit that having the first thing I sell being included
in a RAH book had me floating about six inches off the earth for several
weeks. <BSEG>  Kind of like being invited to dine withe gawds on Olympus,
and being seated at the same table as Zeus.
    Meanwhile... I keep sending out queries and sample chapters, while
I keep writing new things.  One of these days...
    Timothy & the feline mistresses (Pixel & Shaikira)


... "Bummer" said Pooh when Tigger dropped the joint in the honey jar.
--- FMail/386 1.0g
 * Origin: The Forum BBS-Ft Collins,CO *NODE @* (970)225-2627 (1:306/32)

Ä [31] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 2 of 249
 From : Barton Paul Levenson                1:129/26        .óá 09 .àp 96 20:23
 To   : Chris Baugh
 Subj : return messages
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

CB> Barton, if you were to include a quoted line or two of the original
CB> message - or at least a summary of what the original message was
CB> about - your replies would make a lot more sense...

I'll try.

--- Maximus 3.01
 * Origin: SoundingBoard, Pittsburgh PA (1:129/26)

Ä [31] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 3 of 249
 From : James Walton                        1:129/260       .cê 10 .àp 96 11:17
 To   : Angela Smith
 Subj : Octavia Butler
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 AS> Does anyone here read Octavia Butler?? What do you think of
 AS> her Xenogenesis Series?? And does she have anything new
 AS> coming out??

I tried to read "Parable of the Sower."  Yawn.  Got about 1/3 of the way
through.  Just couldn't get interested.

---
 * Origin: Up in James' Attic, (412)-431-2891,  (1:129/260)

Ä [31] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 4 of 249
 From : James Walton                        1:129/260       .cê 10 .àp 96 11:20
 To   : Michael Harper
 Subj : Starship Troopers
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 MH> Michael Ironside is in final negotiations to star in Paul
 MH> Verhoeven's sci-fi action film _Starship Troopers_. Ironside
 MH> last worked with Verhoeven on his hit sci-fi epic _Total
 MH> Recall_.

Too old.  Ironside is a poor choice.

---
 * Origin: Up in James' Attic, (412)-431-2891,  (1:129/260)

Ä [31] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 5 of 249
 From : Robert Paloutzian                   1:214/80        .cê 10 .àp 96 04:49
 To   : All
 Subj : Wayne Barlowe
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
I am looking for some info on Wayne Barlowe, a painter, illustrator, &
visionary who has painted several covers for SF/Fantasy novels & also published
two works of his own, Barlowe's Guide to Extraterrestrials, & Expedition, not
to mention a compilation of some of his work, called The Alien Life of Wayne
Barlowe. He also released a line of collectible figures called Powerlords, in
1982. Anyway, I rather admire his work & was wondering if anyone could suggest
a newsgroup or forum where I could get info on his other releases & discuss his
work with others of like mind. I would appreciate any nudges in the right
direction.

Robert Paloutzian

--- QScan/PCB v1.17b / 01-0154
 * Origin: MicroLink BBS * Dinuba, CA 209-591-8753 (1:214/80)

Ä [31] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 6 of 249
 From : ROBERT LIDGREN                      1:134/10        .cê 10 .àp 96 00:17
 To   : ALL
 Subj : REASONS FOR RULES
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Recently, I was reminded by NICOLAI SHAPERO, our MODERATOR, that "sigs."
are not allowed in this echo.  I, naturally, followed the reminder.  If I
might, though, I'd like to take the liberty of posting a relatively short
message I received from a local member about "WHY" needless "sigs." must be
avoided.  Willie Smith did an excellent job describing why our moderator
intervened to "correct" me.  If this message helps others, I trust it is not
"off topic."  I certainly appreciated the "clarification."

I DIDN'T KNOW THESE THINGS AND MANY OF YOU MIGHT BE IN THE SAME SITUATION.

Hello Robert

  Perhaps I can shed a little light on these stringent rules.  Fidonet is a
series of Local BBS's, the Sysop's of which PAY the long distance charges to
receive the echoes.  IF every message contained a SIG of only 6 lines with the
fancy ASCII lines etc etc......Then THAT message size would be overlly large
for the content of the message.  NOW if all messages have these SIGS then the
packets of mail which are distributed by individual long distance calls would
get very large indeed in relation to the ACTUAL amount of information contained
in the messages.  This results in greater L/D charges to each system which
handles the packets due to an increased transfer time.
  I call Toronto every night for a packet of Fido Mail.  With 2 or 3 messages
that packet is only about 2500 bytes.  However with each message every time
having a SIG attached that packt might get to only 3000 bytes BUT the bottom
line would be that MY L/D charges over a year would be increased.
  SIGS were outlawed in the Original Fidonet rules when the system was set up
and it has never been a popular suggestion to change the OLD WAYS.  Mainly
because of the costs.

  The SYSOP is responsible rule is simply a way of safeguarding the integrity
of an echo.  Each echo is LITERALLY OWNED by the Moderator.  They have ABSOLUTE
power over what is discussed in that echo.  Now some guy in Timbuktoo has NO
CONTROL over what you so so he holds the sysop of the system you post from as
responsible.  This way too many posts agi\ainst the rules, the moderator cuts
off the system. Therefore he has the control.

  That's the way Fidonet works. There has to be some form of control.

  Willie Smith
-----------------------
I better understand Nicolai Shapiro's "role" now and certainly have nothing but
respect for the way SFFAN is operated.  I also APOLOGIZE for making the
mistake.     -R.Lidgren
--- PCBoard 15.2
 * Origin: 32 lines 40 Gig BBS, Realtime InterNet SLIP (403)299-9900 (1:134/10)

Ä [31] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 7 of 249
 From : Michael Baker                       1:108/430       .óá 09 .àp 96 08:47
 To   : All
 Subj : Files
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: FastEcho 1.40 8380
The Dead Zone at Has one of the Largest Sci-FI file areas you've ever seen!.
..tons of sound files, gifs, programs, 1960's themes ect. There are a couple
of ways you can get these files:

           1. Call at 513-521-0705 and log on using " Guest " as your
           name/handel...then " Guest " again for the password.
           2. Freq " SF " for a file list of all the SF files, then freq
           the " filename " to receive the files you want.

 we are updating these files weekly and you should call/freq regularly to
 get any updates, and if there is anything you want send me a message and
 I'll look for the file for you.

          The Dead Zone
          1:108/430
          Krall@one.net



... You should always carry protection. --Fox Mulder on voodoo charms.
--- Blue Wave v2.12
 * Origin: The Dead Zone " Earth2..B5..Startrek..Dr Who.." (1:108/430)

Ä [31] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 8 of 249
 From : Henry Triplett                      1:106/564       .cê 10 .àp 96 23:12
 To   : KAY SHAPERO
 Subj : Sliders is BACK!
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 * Reply to msg originally in FIDO-SFF

-=> Quoting Kay Shapero to Tony Trujillo <=-

 KS> On <Mar 07 14:38>, Tony Trujillo (1:280/341) wrote to All:

 TT>I haven't had a chance to watch it but I'm extremely happy
 TT>to hear that SLIDERS (one of the best neatest little SF shows
 TT>since QUANTUM LEAP) is back on the air. Are there any fans (other
 TT>than Kay Shapero) of the show who'd like to discuss it?

 KS> Gee thanks - don't want to talk to me do you?  :->

 KS> I agree btw - this is FUN.  And like you I'm glad to see they're all
 KS> back.   The show just wouldn't be the same without any of them
 KS> (especially JRD).

My wife despises the girl (Wade, I believe), though they seem to be
writing her to be more intelligent/less annoying this season.  I think
the show might survive the loss of her, and/or possibly Quinn (curiously
enough).  But without Professor Arturo or the Crying Man, they might
as well fold up

... Beam me up Scotty, it just ate my phaser!

___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20 [NR]
--- GEcho 1.00
 * Origin: Eat Flaming Death    Houston Texas    713-447-1927 (1:106/564)

Ä [31] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 9 of 249
 From : Jeroen Jacobs                       2:292/506.26    .ÿò 08 .àp 96 23:43
 To   : Jon Helis
 Subj : 'bugs' in ST: Generat
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Yow Jon !! Where the hell are you ??

Vrijdag Februari 23 1996 03:38, Jon Helis schreef naar Jeroen Jacobs:


 JH> If you like stuff like this, you should pick up one of the
 JH> Nitpicker's Guides, there's one for TOS and TNG.  I have the TNG
 JH> version, and it has some interesting stuff in it.  Give it a try.


Great !! And where can I find those documents ??




Greetings from The Prince of Darkness,

                                        Jeroen

                                   -[PGP_ID=1F7602ED]-


...Number 6 of Borg - Why I resigned is irrelevant.

--- FMail/386 1.0g
 * Origin: My world begins were reality fades away ! (2:292/506.26)

Ä [31] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 10 of 249
 From : Henry Triplett                      1:106/564       .îí 11 .àp 96 17:04
 To   : LAWRENCE E DUNLAP
 Subj : weird tv
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 * Reply to msg originally in FIDO-SFF

-=> Quoting Lawrence E Dunlap to Henry Triplett <=-

 LED> Astroboy's driving Speed Racer's car during confrontations with
 LED> baddies possibly would have assisted Speed in doing bad guys in much
 LED> less violently!  :D

LOL!

 LED> Wonderous were the infrequent gems of science fiction dramas and
 LED> kidvid dramas in the early years of American SF on TV due to the space
 LED> program. *Supercar* was fairly realistic as a Gerry Anderson adaption
 LED> of  an Robert A. Heinlein Tricar of his juvenile & adult novels and
 LED> novellas  of the 1950's and 1960's.
 LED>
 LED> *Fireball XL-5* presaged the winged/manned atmospheric reentry
 LED> spacecraft of the 1990's and presaged interstellar flight in a kidvid
 LED> way.

I remember both of those.  Great stuff, back then!

 LED>
 LED> While *Astroboy* proved to be science fantasy, the level of thought
 LED> required of a 10 year old about choices and values by Astroboy in his
 LED> flights of mercy were and are rare in kidvid SF even today

Very rare.  Interestingly enough, today's kids have much neater toys,
while we had much better shows.

 HT>..."There he goes, ASTROBOY...."

 LED> I wonder how much of Astroboy might be recycliable TV Science Fantasy
 LED> now? Probably not because *Astroboy* and all such shows mentioned in
 LED> our  thread were very violent according to 1996 US and Candaian
 LED> children's TV  standards.

You're probably right.

... Ei 'Aaniigoo 'Ahoot'e  -- The X-Files

___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20 [NR]
--- GEcho 1.00
 * Origin: Eat Flaming Death    Houston Texas    713-447-1927 (1:106/564)

Ä [31] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 11 of 249
 From : Owen E. Oulton                      1:243/45        .cê 10 .àp 96 18:50
 To   : Todd Sullivan
 Subj : 'bugs' in ST: Generations
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 TS> From what Guinan told Picard ("I never left the Nexus",
 TS> I think), I'd say that there's still some part of Kirk
 TS> and Picard remaining there, waiting to return when
 TS> needed.

Actually, what she said was the the part of her in the Nexus was "an echo" and
that "I can't leave - I'm already out there."  If there are such echoes of Kirk
and Picard still in the Nexus, they can't leave either, by logical extrapolation
of her statements.

CFN, O

--- Maximus 2.01wb
 * Origin: Pandora's Box, Ottawa, Ont. 613-829-1209 (1:243/45)

Ä [31] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 12 of 249
 From : Owen E. Oulton                      1:243/45        .cê 10 .àp 96 18:53
 To   : Don Bach
 Subj : clarification
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 DB> Chris, Check your history book for Admiral Grace Hopper.  You would not
 DB> have a computer like you do now without her leadership.

That's right.  She literally de-bugged the first computer, and apparently the
mashed remains of the moth which got caught in a mechanical relay are still
taped into the logbook.

CFN, O

--- Maximus 2.01wb
 * Origin: Pandora's Box, Ottawa, Ont. 613-829-1209 (1:243/45)

Ä [31] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 13 of 249
 From : Marco Catalano                      2:2802/152.3    .óá 09 .àp 96 13:36
 To   : Frank Glover
 Subj : 'bugs' in ST: Generations
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Hello Frank!


Sunday March 03 1996, Frank Glover writes to Marco Catalano:

 MC>> A probe
 MC>> that small couldn't have warp capability.

 FG>    I don't know. The first apperance of Worf's girlfriend involved travel
 FG> in a one-person warp-driven device of similar size, so there is a
 FG> precedent.

Ah yes, that was in the episode "The Emissary" if memory serves correctly.
That makes it not a YATI I guess.

 MC>> Let alone that, when the probe started to dampen the sun, it
 MC>> immidiately became darker. An 'M' class planet or moon must be
 MC>> several light-minutes away at mimimun. Like our own planet, the
 MC>> sunlight takes about 8 minutes to reach us.

 FG>    Absolutely right on this one, though. To be neither too close or to far
 FG> to be a Class-M world, and the speed of light in vacuum being the
 FG> unalterable (even if surpassable) thing it is, they should've seen no
 FG> change for, say, 8-12 minutes....

Grin, I guess Paramount didn't wanted to waste precious celluoid, Frank!
I can understand why Paramaount didn't want to make the audiance wait for so
many minutes without anything happening.
They could however have thrown in several more minutes of fighting between
Picard and Soran.

Or would that be overkill?


Greetings from Marco
BYE!




--- FMail/386 1.02
 * Origin: Capelle a/d IJssel, The Netherlands (2:2802/152.3)

Ä [31] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 14 of 249
 From : Todd Sullivan                       1:202/720.3     .cê 10 .àp 96 14:41
 To   : Frank Glover
 Subj : "Airborne" discussion
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Bill Clementsep was kicking back and telling sea stories until Inspector General
Frank Glover walked in and said, "Knock off with that 'BUGS' IN ST: GENERAT and
get back to work!"  There was no choice but to shoot Frank.

 BC>>  evidence of flatulence might be noticeable. However, the odor
 BC>>  would indeed remain local to your suit. Isn't that a pity.
 FG>
 FG>    But sooner or later, ya gotta come inside and take it off...!

I can see the reactions:

<Various groans and complaints>

"Hey, I eat the same stuff you do; complain to the cook.  That, and I've had to
deal with it for the last six (or whatever) hours.  You've got no kick!"

Todd Sullivan

... At a seance, he who levitates is host.

-*- ASTG 1.9

--- Spot 1.3a Unregistered
 * Origin: Todd's Spot in the Continuum (1:202/720.3)

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 Msg  : 15 of 249
 From : Todd Sullivan                       1:202/720.3     .cê 10 .àp 96 14:46
 To   : Barton Paul Levenson
 Subj : TERAFORMING
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
I was kicking back and telling sea stories until Inspector General Barton Paul
Levenson walked in and said, "Knock off with that TERAFORMING and get back to
work!"  There was no choice but to shoot Barton.

 BPL> I disagree.  Mars, with its 0.38 g surface gravity, is perfectly
 BPL> capable of holding a massive atmosphere against Jeans escape for
 BPL> geologically long periods of time.

Possibly, but can humans adjust to the lower pressure?  Just doing a bit of
quick-and-dirty (stipulated) math, .38 x 14.7 = 5.586 PSIA, or some such.  It's
not even that thin atop the Andes, IIRC.

Anyone who lives there and adjusts will have to remain permanently; the
adjustments would be a bit radical, IMO.

Todd Sullivan

... 9 out of 10 priests prefer young boys to Doom.

-*- ASTG 1.9

--- Spot 1.3a Unregistered
 * Origin: Todd's Spot in the Continuum (1:202/720.3)

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 Msg  : 16 of 249
 From : Todd Sullivan                       1:202/720.3     .cê 10 .àp 96 14:48
 To   : David Johnston
 Subj : Teraforming
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
I was kicking back and telling sea stories until Inspector General David
Johnston walked in and said, "Knock off with that Teraforming and get back to
work!"  There was no choice but to shoot David.

 DJ> Mars would lose air, true, but at a rate that would require no
 DJ> corrective measures for thousands of years, if we could get it's
 DJ> atmospheric pressure up to an acceptable level in the first place.

Ref:  My reply to Barton.

Todd Sullivan

... "I am not even alive enough to know how to kill myself."
     --Primo Levi at Auschwitz

-*- ASTG 1.9

--- Spot 1.3a Unregistered
 * Origin: Todd's Spot in the Continuum (1:202/720.3)

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 Msg  : 17 of 249
 From : Mark Jones                          1:105/302.47    .îí 11 .àp 96 00:35
 To   : Nicolai Shapero
 Subj : Alien threats?
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On (06 Mar 96) Nicolai Shapero wrote to John Arnold...

 NS> I believe the title of the story was "LIKE BANQUO'S GHOST" or
 NS> somesuch. The author was Larry Niven...and the aliens were
 NS> interested in the remote sensor capabilities as well as the
 NS> automation technologies. They blew up the probe when it was on
 NS> the "far side" of their world, at or near point of closest
 NS> approach...out of fear.

   That's the one.  And one of the aliens was on earth for the Big
Event (i.e., our receiving the last of the probe's signals before it
was destroyed, after the signal had spent years getting back to
earth).  The aliens, who had FTL travel and horrifically advanced
sciences, had sent someone to earth after they discovered the probe.
They thought our probe was a remarkable achievement (quaint, perhaps,
but a very clever design given our backwardness).
   The alien tried to play up the triumph we'd achieved by getting the
probe there at all...but having him here as a constant reminder of how
crude our technology was compared to theirs really put a damper on
things.


--- PPoint 1.78
 * Origin: Folcroft Sanitarium (hsmith@cure.com) (1:105/302.47)

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 Msg  : 18 of 249
 From : Mark Jones                          1:105/302.47    .îí 11 .àp 96 00:39
 To   : Angela Smith
 Subj : Octavia Butler
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On (09 Mar 96) Angela Smith wrote to All...

 AS> Does anyone here read Octavia Butler?? What do you think of her
 AS> Xenogenesis Series?? And does she have anything new coming out??

   You bet!  I read everything she writes.  She has a vivid
imagination and writes extremely well (even though her sense of life
is really depressing).  I didn't care for the Xenogenesis series when
I initially read it--but I've grown to really like it since then.
   Her most recent novel (as far as I know) is PARABLE OF THE SOWER,
though I suspect the next novel in that series is due fairly soon.


--- PPoint 1.78
 * Origin: Folcroft Sanitarium (hsmith@cure.com) (1:105/302.47)

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 Msg  : 19 of 249
 From : Mark Jones                          1:105/302.47    .îí 11 .àp 96 00:42
 To   : Frank Glover
 Subj : 'bugs' in ST: Generations
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On (05 Mar 96) Frank Glover wrote to Bryan Malone...

 FG>    Maybe. The quoting got messed up along the way. I never objected to
 FG> the fact that the Enterprise saucer section, and everyone on it were
 FG> destroyed. The nature of the Nexus let Picard and Kirk come back just
 FG> before that, and prevent it. I have no problem with an acknowledged
 FG> change in the timeline. I think the other guy did, butI was responding
 FG> to another part of his message....

    That's not the point, I don't think.
    As I see it, Picard is *still* in the Nexus.  He never left.
    The Nexus, basically, gives you what you want most.  What Picard
wanted most was to save the Enterprise (and the world full of aliens).
 So when he entered the Nexus, the Nexus *gave* him that.  His version
of paradise is one in which HE, at least, has the moral strength to
turn his back on eternal bliss and struggle mightily--with the
greatest starship captain in history at his side!--to stop the villain
of the movie.  So that's what he experienced.
   ...and is still experiencing.
   Meanwhile, in the "real" world, the planet was destroyed, the
Enterprise and its crew were destroyed and everything we see in ST:TNG
from there on out is part of his fantasy....


--- PPoint 1.78
 * Origin: Folcroft Sanitarium (hsmith@cure.com) (1:105/302.47)

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 Msg  : 20 of 249
 From : Mark Jones                          1:105/302.47    .îí 11 .àp 96 00:49
 To   : Gary Warren
 Subj : How does Catherine survive into new B&B miniseries??
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On (07 Mar 96) Gary Warren wrote to All...

 GW> Just read in Bjo Trimble's SCI-FI SPOTLIGHT (formerly SPACE-TIME
 GW> CONTINUUM) that a new 4-hr. BEAUTY AND THE BEAST miniseries (from
 GW> the 1987-9 CBS fantasy show, not the Disney cartoon or other
 GW> musical incarnation) is being planned. In it, Catherine (played
 GW> again by Linda Hamilton?) is alive and recovered from her
 GW> overdose injection by the mad doctor who delivered her and
 GW> Vincent's kid.
 GW>
 GW> Fine and dandy. But will the writers come up with a dodge of how
 GW> she survived her autopsy performed just after the aforementioned
 GW> two-hour 1989 season debut? I'll be bumfuzzled if we're not
 GW> subjected to another "Pam Ewing" dream (DALLAS) or another clone
 GW> story (the projected ALIEN 4 movie).

   What *I* would like to see is a Beauty & The Beast/Quantum Leap
cross-over miniseries.  Sam Beckett leaps in to SAVE Catherine so that
she doesn't die in the first place!  It would be GREAT!
   I'm told that there's a fan-fiction version of this story floating
around, but I've never been able to get my hands on it.


--- PPoint 1.78
 * Origin: Folcroft Sanitarium (hsmith@cure.com) (1:105/302.47)

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 Msg  : 21 of 249
 From : Mark Jones                          1:105/302.47    .îí 11 .àp 96 00:50
 To   : Tony Trujillo
 Subj : Sliders is BACK!
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On (07 Mar 96) Tony Trujillo wrote to All...

 TT> I haven't had a chance to watch it but I'm extremely happy
 TT> to hear that SLIDERS (one of the best neatest little SF shows
 TT> since QUANTUM LEAP) is back on the air. Are there any fans (other
 TT> than Kay Shapero) of the show who'd like to discuss it? I was very
 TT> pleased to hear that they were able to get all of the cast back for
 TT> the new shows...especially JRD.

   Right here! (Waves hand in air)

   I'm happy to see it back on the air too.  And happier still that
they seem to be taking the characters and situations more seriously.
The characters are thinking ahead now.  They're more willing to take
action to protect themselves.  It's good to see.


--- PPoint 1.78
 * Origin: Folcroft Sanitarium (hsmith@cure.com) (1:105/302.47)

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 Msg  : 22 of 249
 From : Mark Jones                          1:105/302.47    .îí 11 .àp 96 00:54
 To   : Nicolai Shapero
 Subj : How does Catherine survive into new B&B miniseries??
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On (09 Mar 96) Nicolai Shapero wrote to Gary Warren...

 NS> Frankly, I'd just say "the whole last season didn't exist, it wasn't a
 NS> dream...even a bad one...it just DIDN'T HAPPEN".  Make for a lot more
 NS> pleasant story, frankly...

   No, no, no--just have Dr. Sam Beckett leap in to make sure
Catherine doesn't die in the first place.  That way the third season
didn't happen...but for a good reason!  (Personally, I enjoyed the
third season.  It wasn't ideal, but given the constraints they were
working under, I think they did the best they could have done.)
   Anyhow, another reason for the Sam Beckett idea--consider the
*ratings* you could get if you got the fans of both Quantum Leap AND
Beauty & The Beast watching the mini-series.  No doubt there's some
overlap between the viewers of the shows...but still.


--- PPoint 1.78
 * Origin: Folcroft Sanitarium (hsmith@cure.com) (1:105/302.47)

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 Msg  : 23 of 249
 From : David Johnston                      1:342/14        .îí 11 .àp 96 00:37
 To   : Todd Sullivan
 Subj : 'Bugs' In St: Generations
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
-> From what Guinan told Picard ("I never left the Nexus", I think), I'd
-> say that there's still some part of Kirk and Picard remaining there,
-> waiting to return when needed.

They can't return from the Nexus because they already have returned from
the Nexus.  However, someone could go to the Nexus and talk to them
before they left.

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 Msg  : 24 of 249
 From : David Johnston                      1:342/14        .îí 11 .àp 96 00:38
 To   : Marco Catalano
 Subj : Help!
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
-> Erm, just one (probaly stupid) question about this.
-> How could mankind have survived?
->
-> I mean, when _EVERYBODY_ is gay or lesbian how are baby's born?

By artificial means.

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 Msg  : 25 of 249
 From : Gary Warren                         1:382/92.7      .îí 11 .àp 96 17:38
 To   : Nicolai Shapero
 Subj : How does Catherine survive into new B&B miniseries??
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On (09 Mar 96) Nicolai Shapero wrote to Gary Warren...

 NS> On <Mar 07 19:19>, Gary Warren (1:382/92.7) wrote to All:

 GW>Fine and dandy.  But will the writers come up with a dodge of how
 GW>she
 GW>survived her autopsy performed just after the aforementioned
 GW>two-hour
 GW>1989 season debut?  I'll be bumfuzzled if we're not subjected to
 GW>another
 GW>"Pam Ewing" dream (DALLAS) or another clone story (the projected
 GW>ALIEN 4
 GW>movie).

 NS> Frankly, I'd just say "the whole last season didn't exist, it wasn't a

 NS> dream...even a bad one...it just DIDN'T HAPPEN".  Make for a lot more
 NS> pleasant story, frankly...


So everything stopped after second season's plotline about Vincent and his
father?  It's possible, but TV writers and directors like to explain things
like this with corny reasons.  Maybe I'm paranoid, but I fear the worst, given
past records.


glw


... "Kids can be so cruel."  "We can? Thanks, mom!"

--- PPoint 1.90
 * Origin: Gary's Bar and Grill! (1:382/92.7)

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 Msg  : 26 of 249
 From : Gary Warren                         1:382/92.7      .îí 11 .àp 96 17:41
 To   : Kay Shapero
 Subj : How does Catherine survive into new B&B miniseries??
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On (09 Mar 96) Kay Shapero wrote to Gary Warren...

 KS> On <Mar 07 19:19>, Gary Warren (1:382/92.7) wrote to All:

 GW>Fine and dandy.  But will the writers come up with a dodge of how
 GW>she survived her autopsy performed just after the aforementioned
 GW>two-hour 1989 season debut?

 KS> Probably just say it didn't happen.  Alternately, of course, they may
 KS> have
 KS> decided to cash in on a certain popular trend and we'll find that she
 KS> did
 KS> die.. but got better and now grows fangs on dark nights and never
 KS> comes
 KS> out in the daytime and...


Jeez, it would make a great revival vehicle for the now-cancelled
FOREVER KNIGHT, eh?  Maybe Vincent and Nick can compare fang prints?!  ;D



 KS> No, No!  Put that down!  AAAAARrrrrrrgggggghhhhhh!!!!!!!


Now, now, this won't hurt a bit... SLASH!!!! (g!)




glw


... "Yield to temptation, it may not pass your way again." - L. Long

--- PPoint 1.90
 * Origin: Gary's Bar and Grill! (1:382/92.7)

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 Msg  : 27 of 249
 From : Angela Smith                        1:109/611       .òp 12 .àp 96 23:12
 To   : James Walton
 Subj : Re: Octavia Butler
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
In a Message to Angela Smith <03-10-96 11:17> James Walton Wrote:

 JW> .MSGID: 1:129/260.0 1422e0b0 .REPLY: 1:109/611 313B11B5 .PID: timEd
 JW> 1.01
 JW>   AS> Does anyone here read Octavia Butler?? What do you think of her
 JW>   AS> Xenogenesis Series?? And does she have anything new coming out??

 JW> I tried to read "Parable of the Sower."  Yawn.  Got about 1/3 of the
 JW> way through.  Just couldn't get interested.

Parable was kinda depressing..so I can't exactly blame ya for being less than
enthused but the book Kindred was real good..that's one of her earlier
ones..plus the Pattermaster series <if I can ever get my hands on the whole
series> seems pretty interesting..BTW, who do you read???

.NOTE: IceEdit 1.60 E17688
--- QuickBBS 2.80 GoldBase (Zeta-1)
 * Origin: AD Message BBS/10th Year Online! (703)241-1826 (1:109/611@FIDONET)

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 Msg  : 28 of 249
 From : Angela Smith                        1:109/611       .òp 12 .àp 96 23:18
 To   : Mark Jones
 Subj : Re: Octavia Butler
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
In a Message to Angela Smith <03-11-96 00:39> Mark Jones Wrote:

 MJ> .MSGID: 1:105/302.47 929b1c25 .REPLY: 1:109/611 313B11B5 On (09 Mar
 MJ> 96) Angela Smith wrote to All...

 MJ>   AS> Does anyone here read Octavia Butler?? What do you think of her
 MJ>   AS> Xenogenesis Series?? And does she have anything new coming out??

 MJ> You bet!  I read everything she writes.  She has a vivid imagination
 MJ> and writes extremely well (even though her sense of life is really
 MJ> depressing).  I didn't care for the Xenogenesis series when I

You're the 2nd person to say that...Even though she can be depressing, IMO
she says things a lotta people don't wanna hear thru herbooks sometimes ,
like about racism, human sexuality and stuff that makes folks squirm! I am
waiting for the next book anyway with bated breath...

.NOTE: IceEdit 1.60 E17688
--- QuickBBS 2.80 GoldBase (Zeta-1)
 * Origin: AD Message BBS/10th Year Online! (703)241-1826 (1:109/611@FIDONET)

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 Msg  : 29 of 249
 From : John Arnold                         3:632/103       .pä 06 .àp 96 16:32
 To   : Mark Jones
 Subj : RE: Alien threats?
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Hi Mark,

 > On (17 Feb 96) Barton Paul Levenson wrote to Mark Jones...
 >
 >  BP> Look, the Milky Way galaxy is about 10 billion years old.
 > Probably
 >  BP> it's had intelligent occupants for the last 4-6 billion years.
 > But
 >  BP> studies (mostly published in Icarus in the '70s) show that even at
 >  BP> sublight speeds, the galaxy would be completely colonized much
 > faster
 >  BP> than that.  Therefore, either we're alone in the galaxy, or the
 > aliens
 >  BP> don't colonize.
 >
 >    Maybe life is much rarer than we think.  Maybe only one sentient
 > species per galaxy is the norm.  In which case, we have the Milky Way
 > all to ourselves indefinitely.

Or maybe they have the same politics as us...
The Orion & Peguss type space craft were on the drawing boards in the 60's
or 70's...  With those type of space craft we could have colonised Mars
by now.  All else that would be needed would be reusable landers to transport
people and supplies from space to the surface and back again...

We've had the tech to have real space stations for years too.
It all comes down to spending the money to do it...

Who knows, the little green men may be stuck with the same type of pollies
we are.  ;-)

BFN,
    John.


 | AmiQWK 2.7 - S/N 0197 |
... All ships will be in a holding pattern till further notice.

--- Maximus/2 3.00
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 Msg  : 30 of 249
 From : David Johnston                      1:342/14        .òp 12 .àp 96 00:35
 To   : James Walton
 Subj : Starship Troopers
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
-> MH> Michael Ironside is in final negotiations to star in Paul MH>
-> Verhoeven's sci-fi action film _Starship Troopers_. Ironside MH> last
-> worked with Verhoeven on his hit sci-fi epic _Total MH> Recall_.
-> Too old.  Ironside is a poor choice.

I doubt he'll have the real lead role.  He'll be the Tough Daddy who
shows up so often in Heinlein.

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 Msg  : 31 of 249
 From : David Johnston                      1:342/14        .òp 12 .àp 96 01:17
 To   : All
 Subj : Serendipity
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
I was just watching "Star Command" premiere or pilot, I'm not sure which
and the thought occured to me that the "anti-violence" crusade (which I
loathed and despised) may have actually done me a favor.  Could it be
that there is a bigger market for fantasy and sci-fi action shows
because there is a demand for action/adventure which can be filled by
these shows without exciting much outcry because of the "unrealistic"
setting.  After all, kids aren't going to be inspired to grab a laser
and shoot it out with aliens or whatever.

In any case, it broke my heart when they blew up Morgan Fairchild
although I knew from the start that there was no way they could get her
for a series regular.  Still...I liked it.

Of course, it's been a long time since I saw regulation mini-skirts on a
starship...

--- PCBoard (R) v15.21/100
 * Origin: Freddy's Place - Edm. AB - 28.8K (403) 456-4241 (1:342/14)

Ä [31] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 32 of 249
 From : James Walton                        1:129/260       .òp 12 .àp 96 00:25
 To   : Bill Clements
 Subj : Re: 'BUGS' IN ST: GENERAT
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 > I beg to differ with the above statement. Under the proper
 > circumstances; roomy spacesuit, high gain comm; the audible
 > evidence of flatulence might be noticeable. However, the odor
 > would indeed remain local to your suit. Isn't that a pity.


Don't space suits have activated carbon filters for the air?

--- Opus-CBCS 1.73a
 * Origin: ConFluence '96:  Return to Mars! (1:129/260.0)

Ä [31] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 33 of 249
 From : Leonard Lin                         1:141/415       .îí 11 .àp 96 02:08
 To   : Frank Glover
 Subj : Re: 'bugs' in ST: Generations
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

-=> Quoting Frank Glover to Bryan Malone <=-

 FG> destroyed. The nature of the Nexus let Picard and Kirk come back just
 FG> before that, and prevent it. I have no problem with an acknowledged
 FG> change in the timeline. I think the other guy did, butI was responding
 FG> to another part of his message....

The nature of the nexus, in fact would have allowed Picard and Kirk, if TPTB
had wished it so, to go anywhere and anywhen and prevented *everything*
having to do with Soren, or at the very least, in the movie prevented.  In
fact, they still could, since time has no meaning in the nexus.  They could
have stayed, and enjoyed their stay, and in fact, still are, from our point
of view *in* the nexus.  That's what I really didn't get, none of the movie
makes sense... ;)

... Where there's a will, there's lawyers.
--- Blue Wave/386 v2.20
 * Origin: The Wacko Board FD2.20c V.Fc V.34 203-384-2453 Line 4 (1:141/415)

Ä [31] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 34 of 249
 From : JOHN ROSS                           1:3400/23       .òp 12 .àp 96 12:25
 To   : KAY SHAPERO
 Subj : Re: Help
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.SPTH: FidoNet#1:3400/23 :369/110

KS> JR>Thanks Kay,Actually I did see it ,but not until I had sent my
KS> JR>second letter to you .Thanks alot.

KS>You're welcome!  Hope you liked it.  (Wanna see some of *my* songs?)

Well ,as long as their not too clean and discustingly pure. :)

---
 þ SLMR 2.1a þ Eagles Soar!,But Weasels aren't sucked into jet engines!

--- AdeptXBBS v1.07 (Registered)
 * Origin: AdeptXBBS (1:3400/23)

Ä [31] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 35 of 249
 From : David Johnston                      1:342/14        .pä 13 .àp 96 00:15
 To   : Todd Sullivan
 Subj : Teraforming
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
-> BPL> I disagree.  Mars, with its 0.38 g surface gravity, is perfectly
-> BPL> capable of holding a massive atmosphere against Jeans escape for
-> BPL> geologically long periods of time.
-> Possibly, but can humans adjust to the lower pressure?  Just doing a
-> bit of quick-and-dirty (stipulated) math, .38 x 14.7 = 5.586 PSIA, or
-> some such.  It's not even that thin atop the Andes, IIRC.

While the low gravity would reduce the pressure, it would not
inherently reduce the density.  Pressure, in itself is not a problem.
It would just be a problem of how to get enough atmospheric density.

->
-> Anyone who lives there and adjusts will have to remain permanently;
-> the adjustments would be a bit radical, IMO.

--- PCBoard (R) v15.21/100
 * Origin: Freddy's Place - Edm. AB - 28.8K (403) 456-4241 (1:342/14)

Ä [31] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 36 of 249
 From : David Johnston                      1:342/14        .pä 13 .àp 96 00:17
 To   : Mark Jones
 Subj : Alien Threats?
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
-> earth).  The aliens, who had FTL travel and horrifically advanced
-> sciences, had sent someone to earth after they discovered the probe.
-> They thought our probe was a remarkable achievement (quaint, perhaps,
-> but a very clever design given our backwardness).

Not true.  They didn't have horrificly advanced sciences.  They just had
one gimmick we'd overlooked.

--- PCBoard (R) v15.21/100
 * Origin: Freddy's Place - Edm. AB - 28.8K (403) 456-4241 (1:342/14)

Ä [31] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 37 of 249
 From : David Johnston                      1:342/14        .pä 13 .àp 96 00:19
 To   : Mark Jones
 Subj : 'Bugs' In St: Generations
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
->   As I see it, Picard is *still* in the Nexus.  He never left.
->   The Nexus, basically, gives you what you want most.  What Picard
-> wanted most was to save the Enterprise (and the world full of
-> aliens).

If that is the case, Picard would eventually figure it out because what
the Nexus CAN'T give you is unhappiness.

--- PCBoard (R) v15.21/100
 * Origin: Freddy's Place - Edm. AB - 28.8K (403) 456-4241 (1:342/14)

Ä [31] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 38 of 249
 From : Judy Hayes                          1:154/40        .òp 12 .àp 96 11:46
 To   : Sarah Hargreaves
 Subj : Re: QUARK!
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

-> While waiting for MiniCon weekend, Quoshara heard, QUARK!

 SH> Does anyone out there remember this classic?  (Someone might of
 SH> discussed it in this net at an earlier stage (or recently for that
 SH> matter), but I couldnt be bothered looking) :).

 SH> I was having a discussion about it the other day with some workmates,
 SH> and we couldn't remember all the character names.. Quark (of course),
 SH> Gene and Gene.. but thats all we could come up with (slack huh?).. can
 SH> someone out there come to my rescue of sleepness nights of trying to
 SH> remember the character names?

Ficus the alien plant person.
Palandrome - Quark's boss with the big head.
And, of course, Betty and Betty - the confused blond and her clone.

I had forgotten about Gene and Gene....thanks.

      --Quoshara



... From now on I'm feeding the cat food that matches the carpet color.
---
 * Origin: Anonymous BBS -=- Non plus Ultra -=- 414-251-2580 (1:154/40)

Ä [31] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 39 of 249
 From : The Raven                           1:363/309       .pä 13 .àp 96 06:06
 To   : Brion Lienhart
 Subj : Gulliver's Travels
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 BL> If you ever wondered why people don't like you this is it. I don't
 BL> think I've ever seen a single message from you that was even civil. If
 BL> you the only way you interact with other people is to insult them,
 BL> don't be suprised when people don't react positively to you.

     I'm beginning to believe that Chris simply cannot help it.  He's not
a Dixon or a Wolgast (who are insulting and unpleasant on purpose), but rather
is obtuse, ignorant, and offensive by way of an accident of genetics.  He
is this way by nature, not by design, and cannot help himself.

     Jack Butler



... The procrastinators annymous meeting was delayed.
--- Blue Wave/DOS v2.20 [NR]
 * Origin: Forethought BBS -=- Orlando, FL -=- 407-679-6561 (1:363/309)

Ä [31] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 40 of 249
 From : The Raven                           1:363/309       .pä 13 .àp 96 06:06
 To   : Nicolai Shapero
 Subj : Nuclear
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 CO> So, i say that the human race are gutless COWARDS, and the animal
 CO> kingdom should be the ones that rule this earth before we did.

 NS> Cowards because they'd use anything they've got in the way of an
 NS> advantage in order to stay alive?  Hello?  Are we on the same planet,
 NS> here?


     Ever read that Niven story... jeez... title escapes me.  But it was one
of the Draco Tavern stories.  A race of "honorable hunters" invites the
proprietor on a hunt; these hunts are supposedly made with only the weapons
evolution gives you... and the human finally makes the kill by bashing an
antelope with a bone because "his evolution included the club".

     Jack Butler



... Vulgarity: The conduct of others.
--- Blue Wave/DOS v2.20 [NR]
 * Origin: Forethought BBS -=- Orlando, FL -=- 407-679-6561 (1:363/309)

Ä [31] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 41 of 249
 From : ROBERT LIDGREN                      1:134/10        .îí 11 .àp 96 22:19
 To   : ALL
 Subj : SLIDERS
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
        It's nice to see Sliders is back!  Last week's episode, featuring the
alternate world where men were in short supply, was handled fairly well.  I
especially liked the fact that things were left a bit ambiguous w.r.t. whether
or not the characters did help out in the re-population project.  It also
reminded me of the angst experienced by couples in the here-and-now who
desparately want children but, for medical reasons, are incapable of having
them the old fashioned way.
        The ethical dilemnas were brought up.  I especially liked the statement
by Quinn Malory that he didn't want to "father" a child and then not be around
to be a parent.  What a refreshing change form the "love them and leave them"
approach which is seen TOO OFTEN.
        I am not certain whether Arturo obliged and "helped out" but even his
attitude showed a degree of responsibility which is, I suppose, 180 degrees
away from, say, what James Bond would do in similar circumstances.  I think his
expression was something like: "Oh my God!" when faced with having sex with his
female "guard," quite against his will.  Being an occupant of such a "stud
farm" environment demonstrated that it would not be quite the Nirvana many
adolescents might imagine.  But then, maybe one needs a bit of maturity and
life experience to see why this alternate world wouldn't be EVERYMAN'S cup of
tea.
        It is a delight to see all of the original cast is back.  BTW, my son
felt the first episode was very sad.  I queried him about it and what made him
very sad was the fact that the crew did make it home momnetarily but made the
mistake of misinterpreting the "signs" and then "sliding" once more.  For a
young man, I guess the thought of being separated from his family and friends
isn't necessarily appealing ad infinitim.
        At any rate, it's good to see the "Sliders" cast back in action and
also delightful to see the scripts still do delve into some complicated issues
with a bit of "class" as well as the Sliders hallmark of good fun.
        BTW #2:  Did you notice how QUICKLY Quinn got over his bullet wound?  I
wonder if "sliding" enhances the healing process?
Cheers,  - Rob
--- PCBoard 15.2
 * Origin: 32 lines 40 Gig BBS, Realtime InterNet SLIP (403)299-9900 (1:134/10)

Ä [31] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 42 of 249
 From : Kim Wheat                           1:275/102       .îí 11 .àp 96 19:58
 To   : Robert Paloutzian
 Subj : Wayne Barlowe
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
---<<*<<< Robert dazzled Buc Wheat with these words of wisdom!! >>>**>>----

 RP> I am looking for some info on Wayne Barlowe, a painter, illustrator,
 RP> & visionary who has painted several covers for SF/Fantasy novels & also
 RP> published two works of his own, Barlowe's Guide to Extraterrestrials, &
 RP> Expedition, not to mention a compilation of some of his work, called
 RP> The Alien Life of Wayne Barlowe. He also released a line of collectible
 RP> figures called Powerlords, in 1982. Anyway, I rather admire his work &
 RP> was wondering if anyone could suggest a newsgroup or forum where I
 RP> could get info on his other releases & discuss his work with others of
 RP> like mind. I would appreciate any nudges in the right direction.

 Hi Robert,
  Can't help you with a echo dealing with Wayne, but as a big Non Sport
 Card collector, I do know that there is a trading card set that came
 out in 94' by Comic Images. It was called 'Wayne Barlowe:The Alien
 World of' and contains 90 common cards that give a very nice over
 view of his work. There were also 6 prism cards, 3 Space Traveler
 cards that make up the total set.

 Kim :)

___ Blue Wave/DOS v2.30

--- PCBoard (R) v15.22/M 10
 * Origin: SelectiveSource VirginiaBeach,VA 804 471 6776 (1:275/102)

Ä [31] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 43 of 249
 From : Todd Sullivan                       1:202/720.3     .îí 11 .àp 96 19:10
 To   : Kay Shapero
 Subj : How does Catherine survive into new B&B miniseries??
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Gary Warren was kicking back and telling sea stories until Inspector General Kay
Shapero walked in and said, "Knock off with that How does Catherine survive into
new B&B miniseries?? and get back to work!"  There was no choice but to shoot
Kay.

 GW>> she survived her autopsy performed just after the aforementioned
 GW>> two-hour 1989 season debut?

 KS> Probably just say it didn't happen.  Alternately, of course, they may
 KS> have decided to cash in on a certain popular trend and we'll find that
 KS> she did die.. but got better and now grows fangs on dark nights and
 KS> never comes out in the daytime and...

You mean she's moving to Toronto, to work opposite Nick Knight?

<giggle>

 KS> No, No!  Put that down!  AAAAARrrrrrrgggggghhhhhh!!!!!!!

<disgusted look while wiping up sprayed drink>

Will you stop doing that, Kay?  I'm not made of Windex and Scot Towels.

Todd Sullivan

... When on a roll, should you be concerned or jelly-filled?

-*- ASTG 1.9

--- Spot 1.3a Unregistered
 * Origin: Todd's Spot in the Continuum (1:202/720.3)

Ä [31] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 44 of 249
 From : Todd Sullivan                       1:202/720.3     .îí 11 .àp 96 19:13
 To   : Jean.Paul Wissink
 Subj : B5 episode list
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
All was kicking back and telling sea stories until Inspector General Jean.Paul
Wissink walked in and said, "Knock off with that B5 episode list and get back to
work!"  There was no choice but to shoot Jean.Paul.

 JPW> Here in Holland we are currently in season 2 of Bab5. Is there an
 JPW> episode list available which covers *all* seasons from Bab5 up until
 JPW> the latest episode in the States ? Could someone mail me this list
 JPW> (netmail would be fine: don't attach it :-) ?

You could try to get the Backboned BABYLON5 echo, if it's available.

 JPW> It would be nice if it was something like the reviews that Tim Lynch
 JPW> did of ST:TNG and DS9.

There are reviews done;  they appear from time to time.

Todd Sullivan

... Rush Limbaugh:  Barney's illegitimate son.

-*- ASTG 1.9

--- Spot 1.3a Unregistered
 * Origin: Todd's Spot in the Continuum (1:202/720.3)

Ä [31] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 45 of 249
 From : Todd Sullivan                       1:202/720.3     .îí 11 .àp 96 19:15
 To   : Barton Paul Levenson
 Subj : 0 of 3: Rules
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Nicolai Shapero was kicking back and telling sea stories until Inspector General
Barton Paul Levenson walked in and said, "Knock off with that 0 of 3: Rules and
get back to work!"  There was no choice but to shoot Barton.

 BPL> "The word of the moderator is the word of god."

 BPL> I know this is just the kind of pseudo-theological cuteness SF fans
 BPL> are always using, but please try to remember that some of us take
 BPL> concepts like "the word of God" seriously.  For Christians the word of
 BPL> God is Jesus Christ ("En archay ayn ho logos, kai ho logos ayn pros
 BPL> ton theon, kay theos ayn ho logos.")  Your making this statement is
 BPL> equivalent to saying you are Jesus Christ.  Before I'll accept that I
 BPL> want to see the wounds, or at least witness you walking on water.  :)

You're pushing it, Barton.  Arguing outside of Netmail can get you bounced, as
the rules clearly state.

As for your bit about "word of God", if you can't joke about it, what's the
point?

Todd Sullivan

... "Immortals cannot cling like lichen to a stone." --LeCroix

-*- ASTG 1.9

--- Spot 1.3a Unregistered
 * Origin: Todd's Spot in the Continuum (1:202/720.3)

Ä [31] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 46 of 249
 From : Gerry Normandeau                    1:163/430       .îí 11 .àp 96 23:36
 To   : Lawrence E Dunlap
 Subj : weird tv
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Standing at the gallows pole Lawrence E Dunlap spat a curse on Henry Triplett,
accusing him of weird tv!


 HT>..."There he goes, ASTROBOY...."

 LED> I wonder how much of Astroboy might be recycliable TV Science Fantasy
 LED> now? Probably not because *Astroboy* and all such shows mentioned in
 LED> our  thread were very violent according to 1996 US and Candaian
 LED> children's TV  standards.
 LED> Lawrence E Dunlap
 LED> (1:106/2927)
 LED> Internet E-mail "PostOakLED@AOL.COM"
 LED> ___
 LED> * UniQWK #5136*  'What does intelligence have to do with politics?'

 LED> -!- Alexi/Mail 2.02b (#10000)
 LED>  ! Origin: Computer Living F'n BBS-Houston, TX 713-444-2927
 LED> (1:106/2927)

HA. How about "ULTRAMAN!" A beauty of a show. The perfect example
of wonton violence on a city. The only show where the hero destroys
more than the villain!


Gerry.Normandeau@Offsprng.Takeone.com <<>> Royal Hangman To His Majesty
                                           King Bruno The Questionable

___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20 [NR]

--- Maximus 2.01wb
 * Origin: Watership Down BBS, Kanata , ON (1:163/430)

Ä [31] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 47 of 249
 From : Wes Yahola                          1:123/569       .åò 14 .àp 96 06:13
 To   : Sarah Hargreaves
 Subj : QUARK!
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE 1.11+

 -=> Sarah Hargreaves had this to say to All <=-

 SH> Does anyone out there remember this classic?
 SH> I was having a discussion about it the other day with some workmates,
 SH> and we couldn't remember all the character names.. Quark (of course),
 SH> Gene and Gene.. but thats all we could come up with (slack huh?).. can
 SH> someone out there come to my rescue of sleepness nights of trying to
 SH> remember the character names?

 I remeber that show. It lasted about half a season. It was a comedy, though I
was too young at the time to be a good judge of good humor. All I remeber
offhand is they were the crew of a garbage scow, their were the clones you
mentioned and a robot ala "Hitchhiker's...".
 A friend of mine has a complete listing of tv shows book. If I remember I'll
take a look and some notes.


... Average landing party: Kirk, Spock, McCoy, and Ensign Monsterbait
--- Blue Wave/RA v2.12 [NR]
 * Origin: 9 out of 5 Schizos prefer Lunatic Fringe! 382-LUST (1:123/569)

Ä [31] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 48 of 249
 From : Wes Yahola                          1:123/569       .åò 14 .àp 96 06:13
 To   : ROBERT LIDGREN
 Subj : SLIDERS
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE 1.11+

 -=> ROBERT LIDGREN had this to say to ALL <=-

 RL> It's nice to see Sliders is back!  Last week's episode,
 RL> featuring the alternate world where men were in short supply, was
 RL> handled fairly well.
 RL> it's good to see the "Sliders" cast
 RL> back in action and also delightful to see the scripts still do delve
 RL> into some complicated issues with a bit of "class" as well as the
 RL> Sliders hallmark of good fun.

       I don't really have much to add to what you said. I really enjoyed the
episode, and am exstatic! to see the show back again.


    BTW #2:  Did you notice how

 RL> QUICKLY Quinn got over his bullet wound?  I wonder if "sliding"
 RL> enhances the healing process? Cheers,  - Rob


     It turned out (in typical tv fashion) that he got hit in the shoulder. No
small wound, but they did show him suffering some from it in the
[Sorcererworld*] episode. Splitting hairs tho', no big thing.
*can't remeber the episode name


... Gone crazy, be back later, please leave message...
--- Blue Wave/RA v2.12 [NR]
 * Origin: 9 out of 5 Schizos prefer Lunatic Fringe! 382-LUST (1:123/569)

Ä [31] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 49 of 249
 From : Steve Thomas                        1:279/27        .åò 14 .àp 96 07:48
 To   : Mark Jones
 Subj : B&TB/QL crossover
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 MJ> What *I* would like to see is a Beauty & The Beast/Quantum Leap
 MJ> cross-over miniseries.  Sam Beckett leaps in to SAVE Catherine so that
 MJ> she doesn't die in the first place!  It would be GREAT!
 MJ> I'm told that there's a fan-fiction version of this story floating
 MJ> around, but I've never been able to get my hands on it.

As long as Al doesn't run back and forth through Mouse!


... "Ziggy, Gooshi!  Never mind, it's in my hand." -- Al

___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20 [NR]


--- PCBoard (R) v15.22/M 2
 * Origin: <<*> Blue Powder <*>> þ St. Albans, WV þ 304-727-6733 (1:279/27)

Ä [31] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 50 of 249
 From : Keith Stokes                        1:280/333       .òp 12 .àp 96 21:20
 To   : James Walton
 Subj : Octavia Butler
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
* In a message originally to Angela Smith, James Walton said:

JW> AS> Does anyone here read Octavia Butler?? What do you think of
JW> AS> her Xenogenesis Series?? And does she have anything new
JW> AS> coming out??

JW>I tried to read "Parable of the Sower."  Yawn.  Got about 1/3
JW>of the way through.  Just couldn't get interested.

That is the only one of Octavia's novels that I have read, but I
thought it was fairly good.  Perhaps a 7 on a 1-7 scale. I would of
given it a higher rating, but I thought that she tied it up to fast
and clean in the last few pages.

I'm not sure that it is SF. It is a little to close to being contemporary.

    Keith

 * Origin: Infinity (1:280/5)
--- FidoPCB v1.4 [ff013/c]
 * Origin: Sound Advice - 24 Nodes (816)436-4516 (1:280/333)

Ä [31] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 51 of 249
 From : Tam Phan                            1:143/362       .pä 13 .àp 96 21:38
 To   : Patricia Taber
 Subj : Sliders!
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 On 03-05-96 Patricia Taber wrote to Tam Phan...

 PT>   I was so upset when it was gone. I had an Opening to go to last
 PT> Friday and missed the first half... and hubby forgot to tape it. Had
 PT> tape all set up and everything! MEN!

     Ouch.. that's too bad. Well, I'm sure they'll show it again sometime.
---
 * OFFLINE 1.58 * Philosphy:  The profound grasp of the obvious...


 * Origin:  (1:143/362)

Ä [31] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 52 of 249
 From : Frank Glover                        1:2613/477      .pä 13 .àp 96 23:17
 To   : James Walton
 Subj : Re: Starship Troopers
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

JW>   MH> Michael Ironside is in final negotiations to star in Paul
JW>   MH> Verhoeven's sci-fi action film _Starship Troopers_. Ironside
JW>   MH> last worked with Verhoeven on his hit sci-fi epic _Total
JW>   MH> Recall_.
JW>
JW>  Too old.  Ironside is a poor choice.

   Too old to be which character?

   Frank


--- QuickBBS 2.80 GoldBase (Zeta-1)
 * Origin: The Matrix Data Bank BBS, Rochester, Ny (1:2613/477)

Ä [31] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 53 of 249
 From : Frank Glover                        1:2613/477      .pä 13 .àp 96 23:31
 To   : Marco Catalano
 Subj : Re: help!
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

MC>   mo> to the future (400 years or so, I think).  Everyone (or the
MC>  majority) in
MC>   mo> this future is gay or lesbian (even bi is considered a no-no)
MC>  and in one
MC>
MC>  Erm, just one (probaly stupid) question about this.
MC>  How could mankind have survived?

   You mised the part about cloning.....

MC>  It does sounds like a rather interesting book however.

   It is. I highly reccoomend The Forever War. But I'm still not sure this is
the story originally asked for. The main character, William Mandela isn't so
much `transported' into the future, as the means of interstellar travel they use
are a bit like the wormholes of DS-9. You can make big jumps across interstellar
space with them, but you still have to cross a number of light years at
relativistic speeds (and the time dilation that comes with that) to reach them.
Suppose you knew there was a wormhole at Alpha Centauri that would take you to a
point 10,000 lightyears away? Cool, but you still have to reach Alpha Centauri
first, at barely sublight speed. Then the star you *want* to go to is another
(say) 15 lightyears beyond the other end.

   You can find yourself signifigantly out of step with events on Earth, but not
as bad as if there were no wormhole at all.

   That's how a man with the sexual orientation of most of us ends up on an
Earth where homosexuality and cloning are the norm. (But the war still goes
on...)

   (He knows some of his crew refers to him as "the old queer," but none are so
indiscreet as to do it where it can be heard. And there's an interesting scene
when he gets drunk with one of his female senior officers....)

   Frank


--- QuickBBS 2.80 GoldBase (Zeta-1)
 * Origin: The Matrix Data Bank BBS, Rochester, Ny (1:2613/477)

Ä [31] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 54 of 249
 From : Frank Glover                        1:2613/477      .pä 13 .àp 96 23:35
 To   : Nicolai Shapero
 Subj : Re: How does Catherine survive into new B&B miniseries??
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

NS>   GW>1989 season debut?  I'll be bumfuzzled if we're not subjected to
NS>   GW>another
NS>   GW>"Pam Ewing" dream (DALLAS) or another clone story (the projected
NS>   GW>ALIEN 4
NS>   GW>movie).
NS>
NS>  Frankly, I'd just say "the whole last season didn't exist, it wasn't
NS>  a dream...even a bad one...it just DIDN'T HAPPEN".  Make for a lot
NS>  more pleasant story, frankly...

   Basically agreed, though it would mean throwing out that female police
detective. I found her rather interesting. Too bad we'll never know what the
writers had in mind for her....

   Frank


--- QuickBBS 2.80 GoldBase (Zeta-1)
 * Origin: The Matrix Data Bank BBS, Rochester, Ny (1:2613/477)

Ä [31] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 55 of 249
 From : Frank Glover                        1:2613/477      .pä 13 .àp 96 23:38
 To   : All
 Subj : Where's Newt?
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

   (No, not THAT Newt!)

   Does anyone know what became of the young actress Carrie Henn, who played
Rebecca `Newt' Jordan in `Aliens?' I don't think I've seen her in anything
else....

   Frank


--- QuickBBS 2.80 GoldBase (Zeta-1)
 * Origin: The Matrix Data Bank BBS, Rochester, Ny (1:2613/477)

Ä [31] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 56 of 249
 From : Todd Sullivan                       1:202/720.3     .òp 12 .àp 96 19:55
 To   : Mark Jones
 Subj : 'bugs' in ST: Generations
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Frank Glover was kicking back and telling sea stories until Inspector General
Mark Jones walked in and said, "Knock off with that 'bugs' in ST: Generations
and get back to work!"  There was no choice but to shoot Mark.

 MJ>     The Nexus, basically, gives you what you want most.  What Picard
 MJ> wanted most was to save the Enterprise (and the world full of aliens).
 MJ>  So when he entered the Nexus, the Nexus *gave* him that.  His version
 MJ> of paradise is one in which HE, at least, has the moral strength to
 MJ> turn his back on eternal bliss and struggle mightily--with the
 MJ> greatest starship captain in history at his side!--to stop the villain
 MJ> of the movie.  So that's what he experienced.
 MJ>    ...and is still experiencing.
 MJ>    Meanwhile, in the "real" world, the planet was destroyed, the
 MJ> Enterprise and its crew were destroyed and everything we see in ST:TNG
 MJ> from there on out is part of his fantasy....

The only thing that destroys this line of reasoning is Worf's assignment to DS9.

Todd Sullivan

... "Nothing is more damaging to a new truth than an old error." --Goethe

-*- ASTG 1.9

--- Spot 1.3a Unregistered
 * Origin: Todd's Spot in the Continuum (1:202/720.3)

Ä [31] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 57 of 249
 From : Brandon Wolgast                     1:363/281       .pä 13 .àp 96 00:12
 To   : Jean.paul Wissink
 Subj : All B5 Names
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE 1.11+

JW>Here in Holland we are currently in season 2 of Bab5. Is there an episode li
JW>available which covers *all* seasons from Bab5 up until the latest episode i
JW>the States ? Could someone mail me this list (netmail would be fine: don't
JW>attach it :-) ?

JW>It would be nice if it was something like the reviews that Tim Lynch did of
JW>ST:TNG and DS9.

I can't give a review on each, but since I do have them on tape and all
labeled I can't post them quickly so here goes:

Premier Episode:
The Gathering

Season One:
Midnight on the Firing Line
Soul Hunter
Born to the Purple
Infection
Parliament of Dreams
Mind War
The War Prayer
And the Sky Full of Stars
Deathwalker
Believers
Survivors
By Any Means Necessary
Signs and Portents
TKO
Grail
Eyes
Legacies
A Voice in the Wilderness part 1
A Voice in the Wilderness part 2
Babylon Squared
The Quality of Mercy
Chrysalis

Season Two:
Points of Departure
Revelations
The Geometry of Shadows
A Distant Star
The Long Dark
Spider in the Web
Soul Mates
A Race Through Dark Places
The Coming of Shadows
GROPOS
All Alone in the Night
Acts of Sacrifice
Hunter, Prey
There All the Honor Lies
And Now for a Word
In the Shadow of Z'Ha'Dum
Knives
Confessions and Lamentations
Divided Loyalties
The Long, Twilight Struggle
Comes the Inquisitor
The Fall of Night

Season Three:
Matters of Honor
Convictions
A Day in the Strife
Passing Through Gethsemane
Voices of Authority
Dust to Dust
Exogenesis
Messages from Earth
Point of No Return


Thats how far we are here in the states, the next episode is called,
"Severed Dreams," but has not been played yet.  Hope this helped.

***
 * OLX 2.1 * Backup not found: (A)bort (R)etry (P)anic

--- Use The FORCE!
 * Origin: Feduberator * STAR WARS Support * (407)381-2798 (1:363/281)

Ä [31] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 58 of 249
 From : Brandon Wolgast                     1:363/281       .pä 13 .àp 96 12:50
 To   : All
 Subj : Generations Big Mistake
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE 1.11+
To everyone saying there are "bugs" in Generations, you are all correct,
but come on, the ENTIRE movie is a "bug."  From Data's chip to Kirk's
death, to whatever.  The main thing is the Nexus.  Why didn't Kirk and
Picard just leave it days earlier to save the Enterprise, the station,
everything.  They don't seem to mind altering time so why not just go
back to before the Borg came and stop it from happening.  Also, Soran
achieved what he set out to do, HE IS IN the Nexus, so he "won"
basically.  If Picard and Kirk leave that doesn't mean that HE is not in
it.  Also, the echos of people seem to know what is going on in the real
world so the Picard in there will know everything that the Picard out
there knows, and well, you know.

***
 * OLX 2.1 * Backup not found: (A)bort (R)etry (P)anic

--- Use The FORCE!
 * Origin: Feduberator * STAR WARS Support * (407)381-2798 (1:363/281)

Ä [31] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 59 of 249
 From : Keith Stokes                        1:280/5         .òp 12 .àp 96 21:11
 To   : John Giannini
 Subj : FILK MODERATOR
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE/2 1.2
* In a message originally to Kay Shapero, John Giannini said:

JG> RL>> What's the name of the FILK node?  I certainly will drop in.

JG> KS> That's the FILK echo, the tagname is FILK, and it can be picked up off
JG> KS> the backbone in Zone 1.  Hope you can join in the fun!

JG>it was the Starman echo that caused the problem).   Now here
JG>is the moderator's wife(?) talking about (and inadvertainly
JG>advertising) another echo on *this* echo.  Hmmm....

Wow that was an overpowering ad.  I guess Kay just lost her head!

Perhaps we should talk about science fiction. Have you read anything lately?  I
just started Robin Wayne Bailey's SHADOWDANCE. It looks
like this one is going to be VERY good.

  Keith
 * Origin: Infinity (1:280/5)

Ä [31] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 60 of 249
 From : Keith Stokes                        1:280/5         .òp 12 .àp 96 21:20
 To   : James Walton
 Subj : Octavia Butler
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE/2 1.2
* In a message originally to Angela Smith, James Walton said:

JW> AS> Does anyone here read Octavia Butler?? What do you think of
JW> AS> her Xenogenesis Series?? And does she have anything new
JW> AS> coming out??

JW>I tried to read "Parable of the Sower."  Yawn.  Got about 1/3
JW>of the way through.  Just couldn't get interested.

That is the only one of Octavia's novels that I have read, but I
thought it was fairly good.  Perhaps a 7 on a 1-7 scale. I would of
given it a higher rating, but I thought that she tied it up to fast
and clean in the last few pages.

I'm not sure that it is SF. It is a little to close to being contemporary.

    Keith

 * Origin: Infinity (1:280/5)

Ä [31] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 61 of 249
 From : Owen E. Oulton                      1:243/45        .pä 13 .àp 96 14:09
 To   : David Johnston
 Subj : Starship Troopers
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

-> MH> Michael Ironside is in final negotiations to star in Paul MH>
-> Verhoeven's sci-fi action film _Starship Troopers_. Ironside MH> last
-> worked with Verhoeven on his hit sci-fi epic _Total MH> Recall_.
-> Too old.  Ironside is a poor choice.

 DJ> I doubt he'll have the real lead role.  He'll be the Tough Daddy who
 DJ> shows up so often in Heinlein.

It seems to me that a good choice for the lead might be Joel de la Fuentes, who
playa Paul Wang in Space: Above And Beyond.  He's a decent enough actor, about
the right age, and looks right for the part.

CFN, O

--- Maximus 2.01wb
 * Origin: Pandora's Box, Ottawa, Ont. 613-829-1209 (1:243/45)

Ä [31] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 62 of 249
 From : Ecarey                              1:101/230       .òp 12 .àp 96 13:23
 To   : Marco Catalano
 Subj : HELP!
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 >mo> I've heard several people talk about a story that's probably 10 years old
 >mo> or more... the basis of this story is that there is someone in the armed
 >mo> forces (air force, I think) who is hetero, and somehow gets transported
 >mo> to the future (400 years or so, I think).  Everyone (or the majority) in
 >mo> this future is gay or lesbian (even bi is considered a no-no) and in one
 >
 > Erm, just one (probaly stupid) question about this.
 > How could mankind have survived?
 >
 > I mean, when _EVERYBODY_ is gay or lesbian how are baby's born?
 >
 > It does sounds like a rather interesting book however.

There are a number of possibilities, but in this particular book, THE FOREVER
WAR, the eventual solution is that everyone is cloned.

--- FLAME v1.0
 * Origin: Withouta Net - Drop In Anytime! - 617/846-5416 (1:101/230)

Ä [31] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 63 of 249
 From : Rod Mammitzsch                      1:2424/1313     .òp 12 .àp 96 17:22
 To   : Charles Daniels
 Subj : Sci fi
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

CD> I dunno if he was but I am.  I am interested in Doctor Who,
CD> Hitchhiker's Guide, Red Dwarf, and most other British SF!

        Well then your the type of person THE PHAROS PROJECT is lookikng for!
The Pharos Project is a Toronto based international fan club for fans of British
SF.  The club emerged out of a merger between two very popular Dr.Who fan
clubs...the Toronto FACELESS ONES and the Montreal HIGH COUNCIL OF GALLIFREY.
We are now one...and a good one at that!  Our magazine SINGULARITY comes out 4
times per year and contains news, stories, art, pix, puzzles, and a whole lot
more dealing with anything british.  (along with our two exceptions...Babylon 5
and Star Wars).
        It's only 10$ to join.  If your interested send a check or money order
to THE PHAROS PROJECT
         C/O ANDREW GURUDATA
        2699 Battleford Road. #1021
        Mississauga, Ontario
        L5N 3R9
        CANADA
.
        We also hold special club events.  We've had two very successful PROJECT
PARTIES.  Our second party was attended by Doctor Who novelist Paul Cornell.
Our next event will be held sometime in the spring (we hope).
.
        Any questions?  Feel free to ask.
.
        TTYL!
.
        ROD MAMMITZSCH (Pharos Exec. Member)

--- Xenolink 1.981
 * Origin: The Phantasmagoria - "Tekeli-li! Tekeli-li!" (1:2424/1313)

Ä [31] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 64 of 249
 From : Jon Helis                           1:3800/25       .pä 13 .àp 96 19:16
 To   : David Johnston
 Subj : Re: Serendipity
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 -=> Quoting David Johnston to All <=-

 DJ> I was just watching "Star Command" premiere or pilot, I'm not sure
 DJ> which and the thought occured to me that the "anti-violence" crusade
 DJ> (which I loathed and despised) may have actually done me a favor.
 DJ> Could it be that there is a bigger market for fantasy and sci-fi action
 DJ> shows because there is a demand for action/adventure which can be
 DJ> filled by these shows without exciting much outcry because of the
 DJ> "unrealistic" setting.  After all, kids aren't going to be inspired to
 DJ> grab a laser and shoot it out with aliens or whatever.

 DJ> In any case, it broke my heart when they blew up Morgan Fairchild
 DJ> although I knew from the start that there was no way they could get
 DJ> her for a series regular.  Still...I liked it.

 DJ> Of course, it's been a long time since I saw regulation mini-skirts on
 DJ> a starship...

Those mini-skirts made me think a little of Buck Rogers in the
25th Century.  In the scene at the beginning with the Admiral,
she looked like she was wearing a CD Single on her uniform!  Did
it look like that to you?

This show didn't inspire me that much.  I'll stick with
Space:Above and Beyond.





... There are three million stories in the Naked Space Station.
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

--- PCBoard (R) v15.22/M 10
 * Origin: * DataCom BBS - Baton Rouge, La. -  (504)275-2605 - @dcbbs.com *
(1:3800/25)

Ä [31] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 65 of 249
 From : Gary Warren                         1:382/92.7      .òp 12 .àp 96 18:43
 To   : Mark Jones
 Subj : How does Catherine survive into new B&B miniseries??
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On (11 Mar 96) Mark Jones wrote to Gary Warren...

 GW> Fine and dandy. But will the writers come up with a dodge of how
 GW> she survived her autopsy performed just after the aforementioned
 GW> two-hour 1989 season debut? I'll be bumfuzzled if we're not
 GW> subjected to another "Pam Ewing" dream (DALLAS) or another clone
 GW> story (the projected ALIEN 4 movie).

 MJ>    What *I* would like to see is a Beauty & The Beast/Quantum Leap
 MJ> cross-over miniseries.  Sam Beckett leaps in to SAVE Catherine so that
 MJ> she doesn't die in the first place!  It would be GREAT!


I'm not sure about that, unless Sam and Al took a bunch of troops from the
New Mexico lab to leap with them to Gabriel's headquarters/hangout.  If
you'll remember, it was WELL fortified floor to floor with henchmen,
which was why Vincent was too late to save Catherine from being poisoned.

What I'd MUCH prefer instead of Catherine is to have Cat's replacement
become solidly Vincent's love interest.  Can't remember the actress's
name, but until last year, she was the unknown fourth half-sister
in NBC's SISTERS (which supposedly is in its final season).


glw


... Do what you will with this tagline, just don't bother me about it!

--- PPoint 1.90
 * Origin: Gary's Bar and Grill! (1:382/92.7)

Ä [31] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 66 of 249
 From : Dave MacLean                        1:259/536       .pä 13 .àp 96 00:30
 To   : All
 Subj : sci fi club
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
hi folks just a little memo for all u sci fiers. note 1 i am part of a club that
meets monthly in downtown toronto (the john innes community center queen &
sherbourne) at 1:30 pm we are always looking for new members should u want to
join or want to checkout meeting our next one is March 17th.  also i am writting
a trivia book on st-tng if u want to help with it let me know.  should u have
any questions about any of the above notes feel free to memo me back.  also if u
intend on coming to the next meeting please memo me back a way i can identify
you so i can look for u so that i can introduce myself and other members of the
club.  hope to hear from some of you.



--- Maximus 2.01wb
 * Origin: USS Proxima = Toronto, Canada (416)265-3867 (1:259/536)

Ä [31] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 67 of 249
 From : Nicolai Shapero                     1:102/524       .òp 12 .àp 96 06:46
 To   : Barton Paul Levenson
 Subj : 0 of 3: Rules
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Mar 09 12:06>, Barton Paul Levenson (1:129/26) wrote to Nicolai Shapero:

 BP>I know this is just the kind of pseudo-theological cuteness SF
 BP>fans are always using, but please try to remember that some of us
 BP>take concepts like "the word of God" seriously.

If this troubles you so much, then you have IMNSHO, far too much time on your
hands.  Moreover, it will only get weirder in this conference.  I would STRONGLY
suggest that you go elsewhere for your entertainment.

-- Nicolai Shapero, Moderator of the SFFAN echo

--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [31] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 68 of 249
 From : Nicolai Shapero                     1:102/524       .òp 12 .àp 96 06:47
 To   : Sarah Hargreaves
 Subj : QUARK!
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Mar 06 09:10>, Sarah Hargreaves (3:620/247) wrote to All:

 SH>Does anyone out there remember this classic?

"Is the source dangerous?"

"Only if it's on your side..."

-- Nicolai Shapero, the Mad Russian Sysop of StormGate Aerie

--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [31] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 69 of 249
 From : Nicolai Shapero                     1:102/524       .òp 12 .àp 96 06:50
 To   : James Walton
 Subj : Starship Troopers
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Mar 10 11:20>, James Walton (1:129/260) wrote to Michael Harper:

 MH> Michael Ironside is in final negotiations to star in Paul
 MH> Verhoeven's sci-fi action film _Starship Troopers_. Ironside
 MH> last worked with Verhoeven on his hit sci-fi epic _Total
 MH> Recall_.

 JW>Too old.  Ironside is a poor choice.

I was thinking about it on the work and it hit me that he might make a good
Sargeant Zim...

-- Nicolai Shapero, the Mad Russian Sysop of StormGate Aerie


--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [31] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 70 of 249
 From : Nicolai Shapero                     1:102/524       .åò 14 .àp 96 07:02
 To   : Todd Sullivan
 Subj : TERAFORMING
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Mar 10 14:46>, Todd Sullivan (1:202/720.3) wrote to Barton Paul Levenson:

 TS>I was kicking back and telling sea stories until Inspector
 TS>General Barton Paul Levenson walked in and said, "Knock off with
 TS>that TERAFORMING and get back to work!"  There was no choice but
 TS>to shoot Barton.

Just as long signatures are forbidden, I'd like to see the extra long header to
quotes dropped as well.  Could you do something about this?

Thank you for your cooperation,

-- Nicolai Shapero, Moderator of the SFFAN echo

--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [31] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 71 of 249
 From : hfeld@ids2.idsonline.com            1:333/401.1     .pä 06 .àp 96 21:35
 To   : All
 Subj : Mike Rubin Tribute @ Lunacon
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.GMD: 1:396/1
 * Original to All @ 1:102/524 in filk
 * Forwarded Thu Mar 14 1996  09:12:01 by Kay Shapero @ 1:102/524

From: hfeld@ids2.idsonline.com (Harold Feld)
Date: Wed, 06 Mar 1996 21:35:08 -0500


Greetings all:

I am running the filk programming at Lunacon this year.  This year's
Lunacon is the anniversary of the death of Mike Rubin, a well known filker
from NYC.  I have decided to have a tribute to Mike.  From 5-6 p.m. on
Saturday we will be doing a Mike Rubin appreciation and tribute.  I am
looking for people who are interested in performing Mike's stuff, or who
have any other suggestions on what might be appropriate.

Please forward this message to anyone you think might be interested, and
to filk conferences on Genie and elsewhere.  Thank youy.

--
Mar Yaakov HaMizrachi
mka Harold Feld

"Do not say: 'Why is it that the days of old are better than today?' For wisdom
does not prompt your asking." -Eccl. 7:10

--
Filk Mailing List
(echomail and newsgroup readers disregard this as it doesn't apply to you)
To post to the list, send a message to filk-l@bdragon.shore.net
To (un)sub-scribe, send a message to listserv@bdragon.shore.net
|Gateway: Black Dragon Inn
|GateOp: root@bdragon.jjm.com

---
 * Origin: Black Dragon Inn <-> Internet Gateway (1:333/401.1)



--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie: Home of the FILK echo (1:333/401.1)

Ä [31] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 72 of 249
 From : Kay Shapero                         1:102/524       .åò 14 .àp 96 09:47
 To   : ROBERT LIDGREN
 Subj : SLIDERS
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Mar 11 22:19>, ROBERT LIDGREN (1:134/10) wrote to ALL:

 RL>        BTW #2:  Did you notice how QUICKLY Quinn got over his
 RL>bullet wound?  I
 RL>wonder if "sliding" enhances the healing process?

Either that or the guy who "treated" it in the previous episode was better than
anybody gave him credit for.

--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [31] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 73 of 249
 From : Steve Thomas                        1:279/27        .ÿò 15 .àp 96 01:25
 To   : Mark Jones
 Subj : B&TB/QL crossover
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 MJ> What *I* would like to see is a Beauty & The Beast/Quantum Leap
 MJ> cross-over miniseries.  Sam Beckett leaps in to SAVE Catherine so that
 MJ> she doesn't die in the first place!  It would be GREAT!
 MJ> I'm told that there's a fan-fiction version of this story floating
 MJ> around, but I've never been able to get my hands on it.

As long as Al doesn't run back and forth through Mouse!


... "Ziggy, Gooshi!  Never mind, it's in my hand." -- Al

___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20 [NR]


--- PCBoard (R) v15.22/M 2
 * Origin: <<*> Blue Powder <*>> þ St. Albans, WV þ 304-727-6733 (1:279/27)

Ä [31] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 74 of 249
 From : Steve Thomas                        1:279/27        .ÿò 15 .àp 96 01:25
 To   : Sarah Hargreaves
 Subj : QUARK!
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Sarah,

   I remember it well.  The other characters were Ficus the Vegeton (plant),
Betty 1 and her clone Betty 2, Palindrome (Quark's hyperactive boss), the
Head who was the real boss of Perma 1, and my buddy Andy the Robot.  BTW,
Quark's first name is Adam.

                                     --Steve


... "Go clean up the Universe!"

___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20 [NR]

--- PCBoard (R) v15.22/M 2
 * Origin: <<*> Blue Powder <*>> þ St. Albans, WV þ 304-727-6733 (1:279/27)

Ä [31] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 75 of 249
 From : Steve Thomas                        1:279/27        .ÿò 15 .àp 96 01:25
 To   : Todd Sullivan
 Subj : Westworld
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 JH>> The 1973 Michael Crichton film "Westworld" dealt with this issue
 JH>> in a very interesting way.

 JH>> Anyone who's seen it care to discuss it?

 CB> It's been a while since I've seen it, but sure, I'd be happy to
 CB> discuss what I can remember of it.

 TS> I'll take a shot at it too.  I've seen it three times in the last 34
 TS> 1/2 years; let's see how much we can remember together, eh? :^)

 TS> Todd Sullivan

Hey count me in.  In fact why don't we talk about Futureworld, Andromeda
Strain and Looker too!   I'll pass on Jurassic Park.


... "Self-destruct...has been cancelled."  9 seconds to spare.

___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20 [NR]



--- PCBoard (R) v15.22/M 2
 * Origin: <<*> Blue Powder <*>> þ St. Albans, WV þ 304-727-6733 (1:279/27)

Ä [31] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 76 of 249
 From : Debbie Ayres                        1:129/260       .pä 13 .àp 96 15:37
 To   : MARK JONES
 Subj : HOW DOES CATHERINE SURVIV
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 On 03-11-96 MARK JONES wrote to GARY WARREN...

 MJ> On (07 Mar 96) Gary Warren wrote to All...
 MJ>
 MJ>  GW> Just read in Bjo Trimble's SCI-FI SPOTLIGHT (formerly SPACE-TIME
 MJ>  GW> CONTINUUM) that a new 4-hr. BEAUTY AND THE BEAST miniseries (from
 MJ>  GW> the 1987-9 CBS fantasy show, not the Disney cartoon or other
 MJ>
 MJ>    What *I* would like to see is a Beauty & The Beast/Quantum Leap
 MJ> cross-over miniseries.  Sam Beckett leaps in to SAVE Catherine so that
 MJ> she doesn't die in the first place!  It would be GREAT!
 MJ>    I'm told that there's a fan-fiction version of this story floating
 MJ> around, but I've never been able to get my hands on it.
 MJ>

If you ever run across the fan-fiction version of B&tB/QL crossover,
please post the source here... I would really like to read that.

Also, are you familiar with the SCI-FI SPOTLIGHT that Gary was
talking about?  I have never heard of it, and it sounds like it
could be interesting as well.  I used to subscribe to DATAZINE
(I think that was the name), and since it was phased out, I have
never heard of a replacement.  DataZine used to list fan publication
of all kinds, as well as how to order, and pricing info.  They also
briefly listed the contents, and any restrictions (18 or over, etc.)
on ordering.  They also listed upcoming SF&F media projects, and some
of the rumors(IIRC).   Does this Sci-Fi Spotlight do these things?  Or
are there other fan publications that do have this stuff?
    Thanks,

          Debbie

___
 * OFFLINE 1.58 * Deja-Poo: The feeling you've heard this crap before!
--- Silver Xpress Mail System 5.02F3
 * Origin: ConFluence '96:  Return to Mars! (1:129/260)

Ä [31] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 77 of 249
 From : James Walton                        1:129/260       .åò 14 .àp 96 10:26
 To   : Angela Smith
 Subj : Octavia Butler
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 AS> Parable was kinda depressing..so I can't exactly blame ya
 AS> for being less than enthused but the book Kindred was real
 AS> good..that's one of her earlier ones..plus the Pattermaster
 AS> series <if I can ever get my hands on the whole series>

I shall keep this in mind and perhaps give Pattern Master a chance.

 AS> seems pretty interesting..BTW, who do you read???

I belong to a local science fiction club and we have a convention every year.
We invite a lot of authors and I try to read as much as I can by the various
guests.  This year our GOH is Michael Swanwick and I have been searching out his
work.  I am willing to give anyone a read if i like the idea behind a book and
can get past the first 1/4 of the book.

---
 * Origin: ConFluence '96, July 26-28, 1996, Mars PA,  (1:129/260)

Ä [31] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 78 of 249
 From : James Walton                        1:129/260       .åò 14 .àp 96 10:35
 To   : Nicolai Shapero
 Subj : Starship Troopers
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 JW>Too old.  Ironside is a poor choice.

 NS> I was thinking about it on the work and it hit me that he
 NS> might make a good Sargeant Zim...

If I remember correctly, Sargent Zim is Black.  As is Juan Rico, but with
Hispanic origins.

Yes, I think with his style of acting, Ironside would be a pretty good Zim.

---
 * Origin: ConFluence '96: Forged in Iron!,  (1:129/260)

Ä [31] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 79 of 249
 From : James Walton                        1:129/260       .åò 14 .àp 96 10:43
 To   : All
 Subj : Writing Contest
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
PARSEC is proud to announce its Second Annual Science
Fiction writing contest, in conjunction with ConFluence '96.

PARSEC, the Pittsburgh area science fiction club, is offering
a $100 cash prize to the best fantasy or SF short story.
This year's theme is "Forged in Iron;" therefore each
short story submitted must feature "Iron" in some way, shape
or form.

The best story will be published in the ConFluence '96
program book.  Stories must be 3500 words or shorter.

There is NO entry fee.

ConFluence is the  annual Pittsburgh area science fiction
and fantasy conference.  ConFluence '96 will be held from July
26-28, 1996 at the Sheraton Hotel in Mars, Pa.  Our guest of honor
is Nebula award winner Michael Swanwick.  Dozens of other professional
writers, editors and artists will also attend.  The conference
attracts more than 300 attendees from all over the Midwest.

The stories will be judged by members of the club.  At the
club's discretion, the second place winner may also receive
a cash prize and be published in the program book. All
publication rights revert to the author after Confluence.

This contest is open to anyone (pro or amateur) who submits
a story of the correct length, and meets the topic
restrictions.  The manuscript must be double spaced, the
title must appear on the top of each  page and each page
must be numbered.  The author's name should not appear
anywhere in the manuscript.

A title page must accompany the manuscript, which includes
the author's name, address, and the title of the story.
Stories may be submitted on a PC or MAC disk in a plain text
format.  Remember, the story cannot be longer than
3500 words.  If you want your manuscript or disk returned,
include a SASE with your entry.  All submissions must be
received by June 15, 1996.

Any manuscripts which do not adhere to the above guidelines
will be returned unread.

Send manuscripts or disks to:

      PARSEC Short Story Contest
      PO Box 3681
      Pittsburgh, PA 15230-3681

Electronic submissions may be sent to
jjwalton@telerama.lm.com
(electronic submissions need not be double-spaced).
---
 * Origin: ConFluence '96, Michael Swanwick, GOH,  (1:129/260)

Ä [31] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 80 of 249
 From : Trishia Dressler                    1:153/758       .åò 14 .àp 96 22:54
 To   : Tony Trujillo
 Subj : Sliders is BACK!
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 -=> Quoting Tony Trujillo to All <=-

 TT> ...and so am I! :^)

 TT> I haven't had a chance to watch it but I'm extremely happy
 TT> to hear that SLIDERS (one of the best neatest little SF shows
 TT> since QUANTUM LEAP) is back on the air. Are there any fans (other
 TT> than Kay Shapero) of the show who'd like to discuss it? I was very
 TT> pleased to hear that they were able to get all of the cast back for
 TT> the new shows...especially JRD.

  I don't know if the one that I caught was the season premier or not
 but I was disapointed... to say the least... I think that the biggest
 let down was that they didn't dhow where they had slided to at the
 end.... it didn't seem finished somehow.......
  Do you know if the first episode was the one where most of the males
 had died out from a disease, and the planet was populated mainly of
 females ?
 cya
 Trishia Dressler ( Pyro )






... Everyone has a photographic memory.  Some don't have film.
--- FMail/386 1.02
 * Origin: Crossroads BBS  <Vancouver, Canada> 604-872-3560 (1:153/758)

Ä [31] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 81 of 249
 From : Dean Sweatman                       1:396/40        .ÿò 15 .àp 96 07:49
 To   : P.L. Montgomery
 Subj : Octavia Butler
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: InterEcho 1.17 6E010867
... Dean Sweatman's Continuing and Relentless quest toward Fuggheadedness

___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20 [NR]


--- InterEcho 1.17
 * Origin: REUNION BBS, Harahan, La., USA (504) 738-5162 Try God (1:396/40)

Ä [31] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 82 of 249
 From : Dean Sweatman                       1:396/40        .ÿò 15 .àp 96 07:53
 To   : Jon Helis
 Subj : Serendipity
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: InterEcho 1.17 6E010867

-=> Quoting Jon Helis to David Johnston <=-

 JH> This show didn't inspire me that much.  I'll stick with
 JH> Space:Above and Beyond.

It is early yet give them some time to work with the idea and they MIGHT bring
forth something worth watching.

The good news is that you message hit Reunion on the 15th less than 48 hours
after you posted it.  Looks like the changes are starting to kick in.

Fiawol
... Dean Sweatman's Continuing and Relentless quest toward Fuggheadedness

___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20 [NR]


--- InterEcho 1.17
 * Origin: REUNION BBS, Harahan, La., USA (504) 738-5162 Try God (1:396/40)

Ä [31] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 83 of 249
 From : Angela Smith                        1:109/611       .ÿò 15 .àp 96 14:39
 To   : P.l. Montgomery
 Subj : Re: Octavia Butler
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
In a Message to Angela Smith <03-11-96 15:46> P.l. Montgomery Wrote:

 PM> .MSGID: 1:3657/2.0 31449F18
 PM>  AS> Does anyone here read Octavia Butler?? What do you think of her
 PM>    > Xenogenesis Series?? And does she have anything new coming out??

 PM> I really like her stuff, but she doesn't write near enough.   *G*
 PM> Haven't heard of much new, but here's my list of other books she's
 PM> written (most of which I've read):

 PM> Recommended Reading List:

 PM> Books by Octavia E. Butler

Hahaha..I like that tagline...And I am trying to obtain all of 'em....

.NOTE: IceEdit 1.60 E17688
--- QuickBBS 2.80 GoldBase (Zeta-1)
 * Origin: AD Message BBS/10th Year Online! (703)241-1826 (1:109/611@FIDONET)

Ä [31] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 84 of 249
 From : Henry Triplett                      1:106/564       .ÿò 15 .àp 96 09:40
 To   : MARK JONES
 Subj : Sliders is BACK!
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 * Reply to msg originally in FIDO-SFF

-=> Quoting Mark Jones to Henry Triplett <=-

 MJ> On (10 Mar 96) Henry Triplett wrote to KAY SHAPERO...

 HT> My wife despises the girl (Wade, I believe), though they seem to
 HT> be writing her to be more intelligent/less annoying this season.
 HT> I think the show might survive the loss of her, and/or possibly
 HT> Quinn (curiously enough). But without Professor Arturo or the
 HT> Crying Man, they might as well fold up

 MJ> Personally, I think the show would go on quite well without the
 MJ> Crying Man.  For that matter, I think it could survive the loss of any
 MJ> ONE actor.  Two replacements, I think, would sink it.  My personal
 MJ> preference (from favorite to least favorite) are:  Arturo, Wade, Quinn
 MJ> and Crying Man.
 MJ> I think they're writing *all* the characters more intelligently
 MJ> this season.  Even Crying Man (whom I hated last season, because he
 MJ> was there primarily to be comic relief--and I hate such things.)
 MJ> It's looking up.

I always liked the Crying Man.  To me, he seemed to be the 'Joe Everyman'
character.  The guy that really doesn't understand all the nuances of the
situation.  He just knows that he is in deep &%$# and wants out.

BTW, I still don't think that the show could withstand the loss of Prof.
Arturo.  His bombastic arrogance would be sorely missed and JRD is by far
the strongest actor on the show.  What a coup casting pulled off when
they got him!


... Famous Last Words #70: I disarmed the trap.

___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20 [NR]
--- GEcho 1.00
 * Origin: Eat Flaming Death    Houston Texas    713-447-1927 (1:106/564)

Ä [31] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 85 of 249
 From : Jeff Hancock                        1:3600/7        .åò 14 .àp 96 20:05
 To   : Mark Jones
 Subj : How does Catherine surviv
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

MJ>   What *I* would like to see is a Beauty & The Beast/Quantum Leap
MJ>cross-over miniseries. [........] I'm told that there's a fan-fiction
MJ>version of this story floating around, but I've never been able to

Peter David did one in one of his "But I Digress..." columns, and it was
included in the trade paperback collection of the same name.  May find
it at a comic shop, but you'll probably have to have the owner order it
from the Previews catalog.

And yes, he mentioned that he found out later there was a fan-fic which
took the same idea in a different direction.  Dunno about that one.

-=-
 * Crazy-J * If he says, "Let me know what happens", DON'T TRY IT!!

--- SLMAIL v3.5C  (#1540)
 * Origin: Robotech þ Lake City's Music*Demo BBS þ [904] 758*9477 (1:3600/7)

Ä [31] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 86 of 249
 From : Todd Sullivan                       1:202/720.3     .åò 14 .àp 96 20:19
 To   : All
 Subj : Trek Movie "bugs"
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Since we were discussing bugs in Generations, howzabout we dissect each of the
movies before?

I'll start with STIV.

These are mostly involving the USS Enterprise aircraft carrier, which was really
the USS Ranger (CV-61, not CVN-65).

The Marines don't patrol the engineering spaces at any time.

There's no way there could have been a power drain noticed; there wasn't one.
The escaped photons have nothing to do with electricity generation.

The "reactor" was actually the Main Space control room, filled with mist/smoke
and lit orange.  There's no way they could have gotten near the actual reactor,
and the shielding is far more effective than they made out.

But, as with all the bugs, they're after a good story, not 100% scientific
accuracy.

Todd Sullivan

... "What are you doing?" --Huxley  "Breaking the law." --Sparton

-*- ASTG 1.9

--- Spot 1.3a Unregistered
 * Origin: Todd's Spot in the Continuum (1:202/720.3)

Ä [31] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 87 of 249
 From : Patrick Long                        1:271/380       .pä 13 .àp 96 17:22
 To   : The Raven
 Subj : Nuclear
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12  94-0096

TR-=>Ever read that Niven story... jeez... title escapes me.  But it
  -=>was one of the Draco Tavern stories.  A race of "honorable hunters"
  -=>invites the proprietor on a hunt; these hunts are supposedly made
  -=>with only the weapons evolution gives you... and the human finally
  -=>makes the kill by bashing an antelope with a bone because "his
  -=>evolution included the club".

Just finished that in _Limits_ a while ago.  Lemme grab it...

"Table Manners" is the title of the story.

... Real women know a fool and his money when they see one.

--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12
 * Origin: The Gondor BBS, member of Fidonet, the best RPG's!  (1:271/380.0)

Ä [31] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 88 of 249
 From : Kim Wheat                           1:275/102       .ÿò 15 .àp 96 19:49
 To   : Robert Paloutzian
 Subj : Wayne Barlowe
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
---<<*<<< Robert dazzled Buc Wheat with these words of wisdom!! >>>**>>----

 RP> Kim:
 RP> Thanks for your response, I'll be sure to look for the Barlowe
 RP> trading cards. Are you a Barlowe fan as well? Anyone else?
 RP> Rob

 Might want to post a msg in rec.collecting.non-sport and see if someone
 has an extra set they'd be willing to sell. They usually only go for
 $7 or so.

 I've seen Barlowe's art around alot, and do have a set of the cards,
 but find his art work pretty weird! <g>

 Reminded me alot of Jim Warren's stuff! :) (well, not THAT weird!)

 Kim :)

___ Blue Wave/DOS v2.30
 * Origin: SelectiveSource VirginiaBeach,VA 804 471 6776 (1:275/102)

Ä [31] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 89 of 249
 From : Kim Wheat                           1:275/102       .ÿò 15 .àp 96 19:49
 To   : Barton Paul Levenson
 Subj : WORD??
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
---<<*<<< Nicolai dazzled Buc Wheat with these words of wisdom!! >>>**>>----

 BP>I know this is just the kind of pseudo-theological cuteness SF
 BP>fans are always using, but please try to remember that some of us
 BP>take concepts like "the word of God" seriously.

 So do I, Barton! In fact I woke up the other morning and the old guy
 ...whoops...the old 'Guy' had written 'SMEG-HEAD' on my bathroom mirror
 w/ my shaving cream!!

 Sheesh, He certainly has one weird sense of humor!! :)

 Kim :)

___ Blue Wave/DOS v2.30
 * Origin: SelectiveSource VirginiaBeach,VA 804 471 6776 (1:275/102)

Ä [31] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 90 of 249
 From : Silky Rose                          1:271/236       .ÿò 15 .àp 96 19:58
 To   : Mark Jones
 Subj : Catherine Returns
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE 1.11+

-=> Quoting Mark Jones to All <=-

 MJ> grave on the Beauty & The Beast mini-series.  How many options can we
 MJ> come up with for that?

 MJ> 1.  Catherine did, in fact, die.  But she revived and found herself to
 MJ> be an immortal (HIGHLANDER-style).

 MJ> 2.   Catherine dies--but lives again as a vampire.

 MJ> 3.   Catherine did die--but Powerful Forces (tm) resurrect her.

 MJ> My final suggestion is that Sam Becket (QUANTUM LEAP) leaps in to
 MJ> change history so that Catherine does not, in fact, die as we saw in
 MJ> the original series.

 MJ> What other options are there?

 How about this one...it wasn't really Catherine, but a clone of her who
 we all saw die, for the purposes of getting Vincent off the trail. Just
 a thought...

Pj


--- GEcho 1.11+
 * Origin: THE TIME MACHINE (804)599-6401 (1:271/236.0)

Ä [31] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 91 of 249
 From : Scott Leigh                         1:2630/137      .åò 14 .àp 96 13:10
 To   : ROBERT LIDGREN
 Subj : Re: SLIDERS
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 RL> Sliders hallmark of good fun. BTW #2:  Did you notice how
 RL> QUICKLY Quinn got over his bullet wound?  I wonder if "sliding"
 RL> enhances the healing process? Cheers,  - Rob

Are you sure he was shot with a bullet?  I thought it was a tranquilizer
dart.

Scott

... MONEY TALKS ...   but all mine ever says is GOODBYE!
--- Blue Wave/RA v2.21 [NR]
 * Origin: Edison Academy * Elizabeth NJ * (908) 289-3981 (1:2630/137)

Ä [31] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 92 of 249
 From : Todd Sullivan                       1:202/720.3     .ÿò 15 .àp 96 18:57
 To   : John Giannini
 Subj : FILK MODERATOR
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Nicolai Shapero was kicking back and telling sea stories until Inspector General
John Giannini walked in and said, "Knock off with that FILK MODERATOR and get
back to work!"  There was no choice but to shoot John.

 JG> In your moderator style, I suppose it does.  But in my world, (and I
 JG> moderate 3 echos) the moderator can be criticized just like anyone
 JG> else.  The moderator can't be *attacked* per se, but valid observations
 JG> and true opinions of a moderator, or moderation style, are always
 JG> welcome.  Sometimes people can offer really good ideas and insights
 JG> that benefit all the guests of an echo, in terms of helping a moderator
 JG> do the job...
 JG> But concerning criticism .. Heck, even President Clinton has bad things
 JG> said about him all the time, and *he's* the president of a whole
 JG> country!  If a President can be thus criticized, certainly, a much
 JG> lesser important moderator of only a fido conference, such as you and
 JG> I, can.  What do *we* compare to a President??!!  Certainly, *I* can be
 JG> criticized - to disallow that would be to assert more power than the
 JG> prez!
 JG> In my opinion, when I get so ego involved in my echos that I can't
 JG> withstand a little criticism or questionning, well, that's time time to
 JG> turn over the moderator job to someone else.

All this must have been cribbed from a Logic 101 book...or maybe Cliff's Notes.

 JG> I already have decided to drop this conference alltogether anyhow, so I
 JG> guess this comment is academic.  What can I say.

Didn't get your way, and now you're leaving in a huff?  I feel sorry for your
users, if so.  Too bad the lesson didn't take.

Todd Sullivan

... "The friendship that can cease has never been real." --Saint Jerome

-*- ASTG 1.9

--- Spot 1.3a Unregistered
 * Origin: Todd's Spot in the Continuum (1:202/720.3)

Ä [31] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 93 of 249
 From : Dave MacLean                        1:250/701       .óá 16 .àp 96 22:18
 To   : Paul Worley
 Subj : sci fi club
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
my club has no offical activities planned for that time but perhaps if u are
interested we could meen and i could talk to u about the club.  if are meeting
goes well maybe there is away we could sort of sci fi and computer pen pals.
let me know if u are interested before u come up so i can start thinking things
over in regards to stuff that we can do.  hope to hear from u again and that
this sounds like a good idea.  hailing frequencies closed.



--- Maximus/2 3.01
 * Origin: ¨Utopia Planitia -Where Starships & Dreams are Built! (1:250/701)

Ä [31] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 94 of 249
 From : Steve James                         1:170/600.30    .cê 17 .àp 96 00:23
 To   : Mark Jones
 Subj : Catherine Returns
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Just before he was nominated for president, Steve heard Mark Jones say:

 MJ>    Okay, so it appears that Catherine will be returning from the grave
 MJ> on the Beauty & The Beast mini-series.  How many options can we come
 MJ> up with for that?

        Here's one ... From the Nexus, Capts. Picard and Kirk go back in time
and save her before she died.

... "Ninety percent of politics is deciding whom to blame." -- Meg Greenfield

--- PPoint 2.00
 * Origin: Steve's Point -- You mean he has one?! (1:170/600.30)

Ä [31] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 95 of 249
 From : Jon Helis                           1:3800/25       .óá 16 .àp 96 23:28
 To   : Dean Sweatman
 Subj : Re: Serendipity
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 -=> Quoting Dean Sweatman to Jon Helis <=-

 DS> @MSGID: 1:396/40 6f1130ae
 DS> @TID: InterEcho 1.17 6E010867
 -=> Quoting Jon Helis to David Johnston <=-

 JH> This show didn't inspire me that much.  I'll stick with
 JH> Space:Above and Beyond.

 DS> It is early yet give them some time to work with the idea and they
 DS> MIGHT bring forth something worth watching.

 DS> The good news is that you message hit Reunion on the 15th less than 48
 DS> hours after you posted it.  Looks like the changes are starting to kick
 DS> in.
 DS> Fiawol

This message made to me on SFFAN on the 23rd!  I guess the
problem is solved now.  AMEN!




... A clean desk is a sign of a cluttered desk drawer.
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

--- PCBoard (R) v15.22/M 10
 * Origin: * DataCom BBS - Baton Rouge, La. -  (504)275-2605 - @dcbbs.com *
(1:3800/25)

Ä [31] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 96 of 249
 From : Aaron Turon                         1:137/2         .óá 16 .àp 96 13:47
 To   : All
 Subj : Star Trek
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Who saw Voyager last wednesday? Wasn't that cool? CYA! ;)


--- Opus-CBCS 1.73a
 * Origin: Chipper Clipper * Scott me up beamy! * 941-745-56 (1:137/2.0)

Ä [31] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 97 of 249
 From : Barton Paul Levenson                1:129/26        .óá 16 .àp 96 06:10
 To   : Todd Sullivan
 Subj : 0 of 3: Rules
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Nobody asked you.

--- Maximus 3.01
 * Origin: SoundingBoard, Pittsburgh PA (1:129/26)

Ä [31] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 98 of 249
 From : Barton Paul Levenson                1:129/26        .óá 16 .àp 96 06:12
 To   : Sarah Hargreaves
 Subj : QUARK!
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Ficus, the humanoid fungus and Spock parody.  Two apparent twins, each of whom
insisted the other was a clone; I can't remember their names.  The rest of the
crew also escapes me at the moment.

--- Maximus 3.01
 * Origin: SoundingBoard, Pittsburgh PA (1:129/26)

Ä [31] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 99 of 249
 From : Kay Shapero                         1:102/524       .óá 16 .àp 96 09:21
 To   : Bill Clements
 Subj : WRITERS
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Mar 13 17:05>, Bill Clements (1:18/230) wrote to Kay Shapero:

 BC>I'm a bit confused by your comment about the Lord Kalvan books.
 BC>Were the pair that you refered to Roland Green and John F.
 BC>Carr? "GREAT KINGS' WAR", (C)opyright 1985 by the
 BC>aforementioned, is the best "third party" sequal that I have
 BC>read.
 BC>

Great Kings' War wasn't too bad, though frankly one gets a little tired of big
battles described in loving detail.  Didn't have the Piper "touch" though.  And
the stuff they wrote AFTER GKW wasn't very good at all, and rapidly drifted off
the track completely into things like Historical Inevitability that Piper would
never have agreed with...

--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [31] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 100 of 249
 From : Nicolai Shapero                     1:102/524       .óá 16 .àp 96 11:26
 To   : John Giannini
 Subj : FILK MODERATOR
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Mar 14 03:20>, John Giannini (1:119/50) wrote to Nicolai Shapero:

 JG>How can you determine that a "reference" wasn't actually intended
 JG>as a veiled advertisement?  You had told me months ago that *any*
 JG>mention of another (competing?) SciFi themed echo was strictly
 JG>"verbotton" in this echo.

I guess you really just don't understand that the moderator, yours truly, does
not like lies.  You are lieing.

-- Nicolai Shapero, Moderator of the SFFAN echo

--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [31] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 101 of 249
 From : Nicolai Shapero                     1:102/524       .óá 16 .àp 96 11:18
 To   : John Giannini
 Subj : Cybersex
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Mar 14 03:49>, John Giannini (1:119/50) wrote to Nicolai Shapero:

 JG>On 06 Mar 96, Nicolai Shapero wrote to John Giannini:

 NS> An interesting note, John.  Please recall that your suspension (I just
 NS> checked) extended through 23 March 1996.  Your posting was made on the
 NS> 4th of March.

 JG>Suspension???  Sheesh, I never even KNEW I was on any
 JG>"suspension"  It's been at least 5 or 6 months since I even
 JG>visited this echo.

Since I sent netmail, and since your name was listed in the suspension list in
the rules (posted regularly), I suppose it really was too much for me to expect
that you'd have noticed this "minor" item.

 JG>the big disagreement we had back last year.  I was so pissed off
 JG>at your failure to address my netmail, I almost dropped this
 JG>echo, from my board, but instead I just decided to boycott it.

Hmmm. Since I wouldn't send you crashmail, you decided to be obnoxious.  Fair
enough.  If you really want it, the ban is permanent.

 JG>Anyhow, you needn't bother responding.  By the time your response
 JG>got to the point when it would otherwise have reached my board, your
 JG>echo will already have been completely gone from my system for days.

Just the sort of behavior I expect of your kind of pain in the posterior, John.
It's called "last tag".  It's always been obnoxious.  It will always be
obnoxious.

-- Nicolai Shapero, Moderator of the SFFAN echo

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Ä [31] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 102 of 249
 From : Nicolai Shapero                     1:102/524       .óá 16 .àp 96 11:25
 To   : James Walton
 Subj : Starship Troopers
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Mar 14 10:35>, James Walton (1:129/260) wrote to Nicolai Shapero:

 JW>If I remember correctly, Sargent Zim is Black.  As is Juan Rico,
 JW>but with Hispanic origins.

I don't remember Zim being referred to as being black (negro, remember the time
Heinlein wrote it).

-- Nicolai Shapero, the Mad Russian Sysop of StormGate Aerie

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Ä [31] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 103 of 249
 From : Nicolai Shapero                     1:102/524       .óá 16 .àp 96 11:31
 To   : All
 Subj : Msg 0 of 3: Rules
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
What follows is an abbreviated version of the rules for SFFAN:

Discussions of SF Fandom, Trek, Media, Who, Anime, and any literary
SF topic are "in bounds".  Related technical discussions are also
allowed, but if they go too far afield, ye moderator reserves the
right to shut down the topic at any time without further warning.
Fantasy, by the by, is on topic.  Keep the comments clean and above
the belt -- personal attacks are unacceptable (remember though, that
to attack an idea is NOT the same as attacking the holder of that
idea).

Commercial messages (anything that solicits money) are OFF TOPIC.

The moderator reserves the right to add new rules as the situation
demands.

Violators of rules may be warned in netmail, will be warned in the
echo, and are subject to suspension of SFFAN echomail priviledges
if they refuse to comply with the echo rules.  Sysops who refuse to
police their users (or themselves) on this echo are subject to
having their feeds cut without warning -- yes, I do hold sysops to
a higher standard.  A list of users and sysops on probation and
suspension is included in the detailed rules, which are posted
at roughly one month intervals.

The word of the moderator is the word of god.  Once the edict is
issued, please take any further comments and/or discussions to netmail.
This is not a democracy.  In the event of my disappearance of early
demise, my wife Kay Shapero will take my place.  If both of us
disappear without having time to appoint an heir to the echo, you
will likely have to fight it out with the FidoNet bureaucracy...

-- Nicolai Shapero, Moderator of SFFAN



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Ä [31] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 104 of 249
 From : Nicolai Shapero                     1:102/524       .óá 16 .àp 96 11:31
 To   : All
 Subj : Msg 1 of 3: Rules
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
                  Rules for SFFAN (Message 1 of 3)

This humble (?) individual, also  known as the moderator of the SFFAN
echo, intends that  this echo be  used for discussions of any subject
related to SF fandom. So: Trek, Who, Anime are all acceptable topics.
Of course, any literary sf topic is  obviously "in bounds".   Related
technical discussions  are also allowable, but try not to go off into
"my computer is better than your computer" arguments.  And, oh yes, I
also allow discussions of role playing games (fantasy and otherwise).
After all, RPGers are frequently sffen too!  (Just try to keep things
VAGUELY in the sf/fantasy area in your discussions, please?)  FANTASY
IS ON  TOPIC.  FANTASY IS ON TOPIC.  FANTASY IS ON TOPIC.  And what I
tell you three times is true...

Once ye olde moderator  declares a thread "off topic" PLEASE DROP THE
SUBJECT.  Take any further comments to NETMAIL.  Repeated infractions
of this rule can result in nastygrams from the Moderator...

Personal attacks are to  be kept off  the echo; but  remember that to
attack the idea is NOT the same thing as attacking the holder of that
idea. Keep things "nice" -- no obscene language, no hitting below the
belt.

I'd like people to be  a bit more careful with  the quoting functions
of their editors.  Please do NOT quote entire messages (including the
origin lines).   Quote only what is necessary.   Show a little bit of
kindness  for the sysops who have to pay to transports these messages
all over the world.

Commercial messages (anything that solicits money) are OFF TOPIC.  If
you're going to  make money on the deal, TAKE IT TO NETMAIL.  This is
not a "for sale" echo, nor is it an "investor's hotline" echo.

                     (Continued in next message)


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Ä [31] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 105 of 249
 From : Nicolai Shapero                     1:102/524       .óá 16 .àp 96 11:31
 To   : All
 Subj : Msg 2 of 3: Rules
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
                  Rules for SFFAN (Message 2 of 3)

No one  by the  name of  Arthur Werner,  Sal Devita, or  any variants
thereof is permitted  on this echo.  We do NOT need the Werner-beast,
in ANY of his incarnations, on this echo.  In keeping with the spirit
of this rule, Bob Charles  is also banned from this echo -- for life.
It is requested that no sysop  allow access to or  provide a feed for
SFFAN to this individual.

Hanah Deborah is also banned from this echo for an indefinite period,
as is Graeme Smith.

For rudeness above  and beyond the call, yet another individual joins
the "permanent invitation to the world" club: John Giannini.

If message traffic is being gated into this conference from any other
network, then each  message must show in the origin line, the FidoNet
address of the system that is doing the gating so that netmail may be
properly directed to users posting from the other network. The gating
station MUST BE LISTED IN THE FIDONET NODELIST AS AN APPROVED GATEWAY
STATION!

The first time that anyone breaks one of these or other FidoNet rules
I will try and notify them via netmail. Depending upon the infraction,
I may also post a  message in the echo. Repeated infractions may result
in the offender being banned from the echo, either for a limited time or
forever.  I do not need variants on the Werner-beast on this echo!

Sysops are held fully accountable for the actions of all users on their
BBSs.  Failure by a sysop to properly discipline a user, or failure of
a sysop to suspend access of a user on request of the Moderator may
result in loss of access to this echo.  Sysops who violate the rules of
this conference, in spirit or letter, are subject to having their feeds
cut without further warning.  I am fully prepared to go "up the line" on
this one, folks, so DO NOT PUSH YOUR LUCK.  Any sysop who starts playing
"rules lawyer" (and I think you all understand what I'm talking about)
is subject to having his feed cut without further warning.  Feed cuts
will be FOR A MINIMUM OF SIX MONTHS, WITH A MANDATORY ONE YEAR
PROBATIONARY PERIOD FOLLOWING RESTORATION OF ACCESS.  Any violation of
the rules in spirit or letter during the probationary period makes the
offending sysop subject to permanent loss of feed.

                     (Continued in next message)



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Ä [31] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 106 of 249
 From : Nicolai Shapero                     1:102/524       .óá 16 .àp 96 11:31
 To   : All
 Subj : Msg 3 of 3: Rules
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
                  Rules for SFFAN (Message 3 of 3)

In the event that I become unable to continue as moderator for SFFAN,
Kay Shapero will serve in  my stead unless  and until she  decides to
step down.  This is not a democracy.   No one gets to vote on who the
moderator will be.

High order ASCII characters (IBM graphics characters) are not allowed
in messages on this echo. They cause great grief for a lot of systems
and their use is to be avoided.

Special characters or  strings as in those  used for Postscript, TeX,
and similar page description languages are not to be used in SFFAN. I
would much prefer to see standard BBS practices followed (fake under-
score or all caps for emphasis).

These rules are  not to be taken as all inclusive.  The moderator re-
serves the right to add rules any time he deems it necessary to main-
tain the character of the echo.

For those readers  out there who think that SF fandom is just bit too
strange for words, just zip over to one of the OTHER conferences;  it
will only get weirder here.

The following people are on probation for rules violations or other
problems on the echo:

               Name                   End of Probation
            =============             =================

The following individuals have received an "invitation to the world":
They are banned from this echo until the date listed after their
names.  These are "temporary" suspensions of SFFAN echomail priviledges,
but they are total (no read or write access permitted to SFFAN -- all
sysops carrying this echo are asked to comply)

               Name                   End of Suspension
            =============             =================
         Chris Ogniben (1:2604/568)   15 September 1996
         Chris Thurman (1:141/415)     1 May       1996
          Michael Weir (1:147/61)      5 May       1996

The following is a list of STATIONS that for which the feed of SFFAN
has been ordered cut.  Such cuts are for a minimum 6 month period,
and have additional probationary periods following restoration
of service:

               Name                End of Suspension
            =============          =================

-- Nicolai Shapero, the slightly bemused sysop of StormGate Aerie
                    Moderator of the SFFAN echo.


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Ä [31] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 107 of 249
 From : John Ewin                           1:209/232       .åò 07 .àp 96 23:33
 To   : All
 Subj : Hello!
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
ABSOLUT(e)LY TEMPORARY, of Las Vegas, NV, USA, +1-702-254-8601 <=14,400,
+1-702-254-9902 <=33,600, is now carrying this echo!

 +++ ABSOLUT(e)LY TEMPORARY's Co-Sysop/FIDO Sysop

---
   RM 1.3 03162   So what if I want to strut around nude?  -Bart Simpson

--- PCBoard (R) v15.22 (OS/2) 5
 * Origin: ABSOLUT(e)LY TEMPORARY, Las Vegas, NV +1-702-254-8601 (1:209/232)

Ä [31] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 108 of 249
 From : Todd Sullivan                       1:202/720.3     .óá 16 .àp 96 22:22
 To   : Nicolai Shapero
 Subj : TERAFORMING
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Nicolai shot back!

 NS> Just as long signatures are forbidden, I'd like to see the extra long
 NS> header to quotes dropped as well.  Could you do something about this?

 NS> Thank you for your cooperation,

Done.

Todd Sullivan

... "I call Christianity the one great curse...the one immortal blemish
     of mankind." --Nietzsche

-*- ASTG 1.9

--- Spot 1.3a Unregistered
 * Origin: Todd's Spot in the Continuum (1:202/720.3)

Ä [31] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 109 of 249
 From : Kim Wheat                           1:275/102       .cê 17 .àp 96 10:46
 To   : Todd Sullivan
 Subj : Trek Movie "bugs"
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
---<<*<<< Todd dazzled Buc Wheat with these words of wisdom!! >>>**>>----

 TS> I'll start with STIV.

 TS> These are mostly involving the USS Enterprise aircraft carrier, which
 TS> was really the USS Ranger (CV-61, not CVN-65).

 TS> The Marines don't patrol the engineering spaces at any time.

 And as a 23 yr sailor myself, loved how they could 'detect' the
 present of the 'intruders' and track um!!! <lol>

 Kim :)

___ Blue Wave/DOS v2.30

 * Origin: SelectiveSource VirginiaBeach,VA 804 471 6776 (1:275/102)

Ä [31] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 110 of 249
 From : Marcus Green                        1:123/569       .cê 17 .àp 96 20:17
 To   : Kim Wheat
 Subj : WORD??
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE 1.11+

 -=> Quoting Kim Wheat to Barton Paul Levenson <=-

BP>I know this is just the kind of pseudo-theological cuteness SF
 BP>fans are always using, but please try to remember that some of us
 BP>take concepts like "the word of God" seriously.

 KW> So do I, Barton! In fact I woke up the other morning and the old guy
 KW> ...whoops...the old 'Guy' had written 'SMEG-HEAD' on my bathroom
 KW> mirror w/ my shaving cream!!

 KW> Sheesh, He certainly has one weird sense of humor!! :)

He sure does! I mean, look at the platypus!! It's a mammal, and it lays eggs.
Maybe He got ahold of some good smoke that morning or something..:)
It's important to keep a sense of humor about Life.. because you WON'T get out
of it alive, you know...

So,(to get back on topic) has anyone read the new ST Novel?
William Shatner wrote it and I just finished it yesterday...
I would like someone to talk to about it but don't want to spoil it for anyone.
The title is "The Return" and is set right after "The Ashes of Eden".

Find it... Enjoy it...I liked it...

Marcus


... "Courtesy is the lubricant of social interaction." -- Heinlein
--- Blue Wave/RA v2.12
 * Origin: 9 out of 5 Schizos prefer Lunatic Fringe! 382-LUST (1:123/569)

Ä [31] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 111 of 249
 From : Marcus Green                        1:123/569       .cê 17 .àp 96 20:17
 To   : Brion Lienhart
 Subj : Catherine Returns
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE 1.11+

 -=> Quoting Brion Lienhart to Mark Jones <=-

 BL> On Wed Mar 13, Mark Jones said to All:
 -MJ>   What other options are there?

 BL> Ooh, ooh! Here's another one: The Sliders come tripping through and
 BL> pick up a Catherine from a parallel dimension where she never met
 BL> Beastie Boy, and drop her off on the TV show dimension.

Ah-Ha!!! Now that's one I might buy....After all, they brought that guy that
Wade was interested in through, didn't they?  --Hey, whatever happened to him,
anyway??

Or, The Doctor could make an appearence with the TARDIS...

--Marcus

... °±²Û Of course I'm sane. The voices said so. Û²±°
--- Blue Wave/RA v2.12
 * Origin: 9 out of 5 Schizos prefer Lunatic Fringe! 382-LUST (1:123/569)

Ä [31] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 112 of 249
 From : Marcus Green                        1:123/569       .cê 17 .àp 96 20:17
 To   : Tony Trujillo
 Subj : Sliders is BACK!
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE 1.11+

 -=> Quoting Tony Trujillo to Kay Shapero <=-

 TT> Are there any fans (other than Kay Shapero) of the show
 TT> who'd like to discuss it?
 KS> Gee thanks - don't want to talk to me do you?  :->

I'll talk to you, Kay...

 TT> I think a lot of SF shows (now a days) have really lost
 TT> that element. SLIDERS is one of the few shows that I can
 TT> really say I really love because it is just for FUN.

 KS> The show just wouldn't be the same without any of them
 KS> (especially JRD).

 TT> I don't know if I'd really want to watch the show if JRD
 TT> was no longer a cast member. None of the other actors
 TT> really impress me...my second favorite character (after
 TT> Aturo) would have to be Quinn...with Rembrandt and Wade
 TT> a distant third and fourth respectively.

I have a question for you two..
At the end of the last episode last year, when Quinn was shot, did not that guy
that Wade was interested in Slide too? I mean, I thought that he slid with the
group and was on the new world when they discovered Quinn's injury.
Am I remembering this right or did I get things mixed up?

BTW-- I'm glad it's back too. It's a refreshing change to see a TV show that can
poke fun at our society (such as the episode where Academia and Sports were
blened and Quinn was the Shaq of that world..). I was getting tired of all of
these so-called "reality" shows. (NYPD Blue, Law and Order..etc..)
and the home-video shows were a bit too cutsey for me.

Just my 2 cents, hope you don't mind...

--Marcus
... ... I saw Elvis. He sat between me and Bigfoot on the UFO.
--- Blue Wave/RA v2.12
 * Origin: 9 out of 5 Schizos prefer Lunatic Fringe! 382-LUST (1:123/569)

Ä [31] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 113 of 249
 From : Frank Glover                        1:2613/477      .cê 17 .àp 96 13:15
 To   : Todd Sullivan
 Subj : Re: Trek Movie "bugs"
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

TS>  These are mostly involving the USS Enterprise aircraft carrier, which
TS>  was really the USS Ranger (CV-61, not CVN-65).

  This was admitted in the credits. Limitations of filmmaking. They probably
couldn't *get* the real thing. Maybe she was on-duty somewhere else at the time?

TS>  The Marines don't patrol the engineering spaces at any time.
TS>
TS>  There's no way there could have been a power drain noticed; there
TS>  wasn't one.  The escaped photons have nothing to do with electricity
TS>  generation.

   I'll accept that.....

TS>  The "reactor" was actually the Main Space control room, filled with
TS>  mist/smoke and lit orange.  There's no way they could have gotten
TS>  near the actual reactor, and the shielding is far more effective than
TS>  they made out.

   The Navy probably wouldn't let a film crew near the real thing, either, even
if the Ranger had one....

   Frank


--- QuickBBS 2.80 GoldBase (Zeta-1)
 * Origin: The Matrix Data Bank BBS, Rochester, Ny (1:2613/477)

Ä [31] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 114 of 249
 From : Frank Glover                        1:2613/477      .cê 17 .àp 96 13:20
 To   : JOHN ROSS
 Subj : Re: 0 of 3: Rules
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

JR>  IMNSHO?
JR>  Sorry,but I'm  a little new to cyber-speach.

   That one means:

   In My Not So Humble Opinion

   Now and then, a list of SF/fandom acronyms are posted here. Some will be seen
on the nets outside of an SF context, too. The above is one of them.

   Frank


--- QuickBBS 2.80 GoldBase (Zeta-1)
 * Origin: The Matrix Data Bank BBS, Rochester, Ny (1:2613/477)

Ä [31] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 115 of 249
 From : Wes Yahola                          1:123/569       .îí 18 .àp 96 04:45
 To   : All
 Subj : Serendipity
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE 1.11+

 -=> David Johnston had this to say to All <=-


 DJ> In any case, it broke my heart when they blew up Morgan Fairchild
 DJ> although I knew from the start that there was no way they could get
 DJ> her for a series regular.  Still...I liked it.

   <G> I was actually quite happy to see her killed off. She's one of those
actors that I can never see as the role they're playing, I just see Morgan
Fairchild, not [whatever the name of her character].
    The show itself I actually liked. I was surprised. I was expecting
something, at best, pedestrian. It WASN'T a fantastic, blow me away, superb
pilot, but it was better than I expected. Some of the acting stood out as
horrible (spec - new ensign "I don't know how I'll tell my husband". okay line,
horrible delivery), and there's definite cheesiness. The bad guys are from
SIN-iceria, wear black nazi-like uniforms, and have a confederacy. {O-kay,
they're the bad guys. We get it, thank you}.
    There's more than a few things I like though. Trafalger is a great name for
a flagship. NO aliens!! The premise has promise beyond the current disputed
planet storyline.

 DJ> Of course, it's been a long time since I saw regulation mini-skirts on
 DJ> a starship...

    :> At least the mini-s were a choice of uniform, not ST:TOS required.

A nice touch that they'll probably -never- have the balls to do, would be a male
in a regulation kilt option uniform. :>




... Anything that kills you makes you... well, dead.
--- Blue Wave/RA v2.12 [NR]
 * Origin: 9 out of 5 Schizos prefer Lunatic Fringe! 382-LUST (1:123/569)

Ä [31] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 116 of 249
 From : Paul Worley                         1:2601/515      .cê 17 .àp 96 11:08
 To   : Tony Trujillo
 Subj : QUARK!
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Hello Tony!

13 Mar 96 02:19, Tony Trujillo wrote to Sarah Hargreaves:

 TT> fond memories never the less! :^) I'd love to find someone who
 TT> has a few episodes on tape...but something tells me that I won't
 TT> be too fond of the series if I was to take a look at it through
 TT> these older eyes. :^)

I found a copy of it at a convention last year and picked it up. ALthough it's
only a fair copy, I'm afraid copying this one would result in a poor copy for
you. Sorry.   Have you tried any of the sci-fi cons in your area?

Paul

--- GoldED 2.42.G0614
 * Origin: USS Wolf - Wheatland, PA  (1:2601/515)

Ä [31] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 117 of 249
 From : Kay Shapero                         1:102/524       .cê 17 .àp 96 14:31
 To   : Carson Chittom
 Subj : Re: Tagline?
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Mar 14 11:00>, Carson Chittom (1:3632/65) wrote to Kay Shapero:

 KS> From Patricia Wrede's Enchanted Forest novels (Talking With
 KS> Dragons, etc.)  Less messy substitute for soapy water with
 KS> lemon if you want to melt wizards.
 CC>        *laugh*  Do you recommend them then?

Highly.  They're great stuff.  Be it noted that the SF book club just released
an edition of all four as "The Enchanted Forest Chronicles" so they're now a lot
easier to find.

CC>(BTW.  Your tag's been S*W*I*P*E*D*!)

Enjoy!



--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [31] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 118 of 249
 From : Bill Clements                       1:18/230        .cê 17 .àp 96 00:05
 To   : The Raven
 Subj : NUCLEAR
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
From the desk of a cynical old man...

On (13 Mar 96) THE RAVEN wrote to NICOLAI SHAPERO...

 TR>      Ever read that Niven story... jeez... title escapes me.  But it
 TR> was one of the Draco Tavern stories.  A race of "honorable hunters"
 TR> invites the proprietor on a hunt; these hunts are supposedly made with
 TR> only the weapons evolution gives you... and the human finally makes
 TR> the kill by bashing an antelope with a bone because "his evolution
 TR> included the club".

Hi Jack,

Owning a good SF library has its advantages...

"FOLK TALE" collected in "Limits" (C)opyright 1985by Larry Niven,
ISBN 0-345-32142-1.

--RWC

"A brute kills for pleasure. A fool kills from hate." --LL
--- LazarusTags  / QWK

--- FLAME v1.1
 * Origin: ANCESTRY TBBS Shadows of forgotten ancestors 941-382-9061 (1:18/230)

Ä [31] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 119 of 249
 From : Bill Clements                       1:18/230        .cê 17 .àp 96 00:05
 To   : Nicolai Shapero
 Subj : 0 OF 3: RULES
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
From the desk of a cynical old man...

On (12 Mar 96) NICOLAI SHAPERO wrote to BARTON PAUL LEVENSON...

 NS>  BP>I know this is just the kind of pseudo-theological cuteness SF
 NS>  BP>fans are always using, but please try to remember that some of us

 NS>  BP>take concepts like "the word of God" seriously.

 NS> If this troubles you so much, then you have IMNSHO, far too much time
 NS> on your hands.  Moreover, it will only get weirder in this conference.
 NS> I would STRONGLY suggest that you go elsewhere for your
 NS> entertainment.

Perhaps Barton hasn't run across this old saw.

Definition: SysOp; god in a small universe.

The Fidonet Moderator holds this in common with the ordinary
SysOp; that is if any SysOp can be considered ordinary. His echo
_IS_ his private universe to do with as he wishes. The micro-
universe, though through the graces of Fidonet it encompasses
planet Earth,  of the SFFAN echo is truly the embodiment of the
will of its moderator; Nicolai Shapero.

If I were to be granted one wish by the moderator it would be a
posting (quarterly) of biographical data on the participants in
this echo.  This would be a purely voluntary endeavor on the
part of SFFAN's members. I think that 3 lines should be adequate
for personal and historical data and a short quote. For example:

R.William Clements : Born 27 Feb 1948 in Sebring Florida USA
Online Since 1988 : Reading Science Fiction Since 1956
Good Science Fiction is hard enough to slice diamond!  --RWC

I personally would like to know more about the people that I am
talking to.

-- RWC

"One man's theology is another man's belly laugh." --LL
--- LazarusTags  / QWK

--- FLAME v1.1
 * Origin: ANCESTRY TBBS Shadows of forgotten ancestors 941-382-9061 (1:18/230)

Ä [31] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 120 of 249
 From : Owen E. Oulton                      1:243/45        .cê 17 .àp 96 23:48
 To   : Tony Trujillo
 Subj : Sliders is BACK!
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 WY> Yeh! I rejoiced when I heard the news. The two episodes have
 WY> been just as good as the early run. I'm a sucker for alt. universe
 WY> stories anyway (Like Harry Turtledove's stuff) so this fits me great!

 TT> Speaking of Harry, I've never read any of his books. The only book
 TT> I attempted to read by him was called THE CASE OF THE TOXIC SPELL
 TT> DUMP...which I in fact dumped about 40 pages into it. Are there some
 TT> other books (I do know if GUNS OF THE SOUTH) that I should really
 TT> check out?

Let's see...
The Videssos Cycle
        The Misplaced Legion
        An Emperor For The Legion
        The Legion Of Videssos
        Swords Of The Legion
This is some of Turtledoves' best stuff, about 3 cohorts of a Roman Legion who,
along with their tribune, a Gaulish chieftan and their Greek doctor, get
transported to an alternate world, based on the Byzantine Empire (Turtledove has
a degree in Byzantine history), but where magic works.  Absolutely wonderfull
stuff.

The Tale of Krispos
        Krispos Rising
        Krispos Of Videssos
        Krispos The Emperor
This trilogy is good, but not as strong as the Videssos Cycle.  It is also set
in the same world, about 500 years earlier, and is the story of one of the
Empire's greatest Emperors.

Agent Of Byzantium
A book of short stories about an alternate universe where the telescope,
smallpox vaccinations, moveable type and other innovations are disciovered in
the Byzantine era.  Recommended.

Worldwar
        In The Balance
        Tilting The Balance
(There's a third volume out in HC and a fourth in the works)  This is the story
of an alien invasion during WWII.  The problem for the aliens is that they came
expecting medieval technology - they were totally unprepared for the speed of
technological progress on Earth.  The first book dragged a bit, but the second
improved.  I'm looking forward to the other two.

CFN, O

--- Maximus 2.01wb
 * Origin: Pandora's Box, Ottawa, Ont. 613-829-1209 (1:243/45)

Ä [31] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 121 of 249
 From : Owen E. Oulton                      1:243/45        .îí 18 .àp 96 00:13
 To   : David Johnston
 Subj : Starship Troopers
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

-> little resemble the book. The lack of female Mobile Infantry
-> troopers is sure to be noticed. History and Moral Philosophy,
-> fully 10% of the written copy, is far from being politically

 DJ> Interesting issue.  Military service is required for the vote.  If women
 DJ> are barred from combat duty then either they don't have the vote, or
 DJ> have the vote without having to take the risks that the other half do.

Government service is required for the vote.  Military service, IIRC, does get
you the vote quicker, but non-military servive will get you there as well.

CFN, O

--- Maximus 2.01wb
 * Origin: Pandora's Box, Ottawa, Ont. 613-829-1209 (1:243/45)

Ä [31] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 122 of 249
 From : Keith Stokes                        1:280/5         .îí 18 .àp 96 20:12
 To   : Kay Shapero
 Subj : SHADOWDANCE
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE/2 1.2

KS>What's Shadowdance about?

Once again, it looks like we are talking to ourselves.

The main character has been paralyzed from the waist down, since
birth. On a very stormy night, amid other complications he is given
the ability to walk, but only between dusk and dawn, and heust
dance for the gods during part of each night.  Unfortunatly, anyone
that sees him dance, is compelled to seek their darkest desires.

I think that this one is going to make Robin Wayne Bailey's career.

    Keith
 * Origin: Infinity (1:280/5)

Ä [31] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 123 of 249
 From : Paul Worley                         1:2601/515      .îí 18 .àp 96 10:29
 To   : Dave MacLean
 Subj : sci fi club
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Hello Dave!

16 Mar 96 22:18, Dave MacLean wrote to Paul Worley:

 DM> my club has no offical activities planned for that time but
 DM> perhaps if u are interested we could meen and i could talk to u
 DM> about the club.  if are meeting goes well maybe there is away we
 DM> could sort of sci fi and computer pen pals.  let me know if u are
 DM> interested before u come up so i can start thinking things over
 DM> in regards to stuff that we can do.  hope to hear from u again
 DM> and that this sounds like a good idea.  hailing frequencies
 DM> closed.

The reason I'm heading up to Toronto on March 30th is because that's where
we've decided to spend our honeymoon. I know she and I are going to be very
busy, but if you can think of something to do on Sunday...(31st) that would be
cool. I can't promise just yet, but I'll do my best.
How about you sending your phone # this way and when we get there, i can call
you? I owuldn't mind having a penpal in Canada. AS long as we talk Sci-Fi stuff,
we can do it here!

Paul

--- GoldED 2.42.G0614
 * Origin: USS Wolf - Wheatland, PA  (1:2601/515)

Ä [31] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 124 of 249
 From : Tommy Kellerman                     2:205/356       .cê 17 .àp 96 18:48
 To   : All
 Subj : Abscence
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Hello All!

I have been unable to answer all messages, since we've changed our software.

If I've missed someone trying to make a point somewhere, please forward your
message and I'll be happy to reply.


Sincerely,


/// Tommy Kellerman

--- Xenolink 1.981, XEmacs 1.2
 * Origin: No Limit, MoraNet on tour                              (2:205/356)

Ä [31] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 125 of 249
 From : Brion Lienhart                      1:213/700.2     .îí 18 .àp 96 09:42
 To   : Trishia Dressler
 Subj : Sliders is BACK!
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On Thu Mar 14, Trishia Dressler said to Tony Trujillo:

 -TD>  I don't know if the one that I caught was the season premier or not
 -TD> but I was disapointed... to say the least... I think that the biggest
 -TD> let down was that they didn't dhow where they had slided to at the
 -TD> end.... it didn't seem finished somehow.......
 -TD>  Do you know if the first episode was the one where most of the males
 -TD> had died out from a disease, and the planet was populated mainly of
 -TD> females ?

No, the first one was the Sorceror world, where Quin stiffs the witch doctor and
has bounty hunters after his brain.



--- QM v1.31
 * Origin: Ministry of Peace - Carson City, NV (1:213/700.2)

Ä [31] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 126 of 249
 From : Brion Lienhart                      1:213/700.2     .îí 18 .àp 96 09:48
 To   : David Johnston
 Subj : Starship Troopers
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On Sun Mar 17, David Johnston said to Bill Clements:

-> little resemble the book. The lack of female Mobile Infantry
-> troopers is sure to be noticed. History and Moral Philosophy,
-> fully 10% of the written copy, is far from being politically

 -DJ>Interesting issue.  Military service is required for the vote.  If
 -DJ>women
 -DJ>are barred from combat duty then either they don't have the vote, or
 -DJ>have the vote without having to take the risks that the other half do.

Who says they are banned from combat duty? Nearly all of the spaceship pilots
are female, as well as a very large portion of the navy crews.




--- QM v1.31
 * Origin: Ministry of Peace - Carson City, NV (1:213/700.2)

Ä [31] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 127 of 249
 From : Brion Lienhart                      1:213/700.2     .îí 18 .àp 96 09:50
 To   : David Johnston
 Subj : Starship Troopers
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On Sun Mar 17, David Johnston said to Brion Lienhart:

-> That's what I was thinking too. However, unless they did a whole lot
-> of rewriting, I wouldn't call Sgt Zim a starring role. Then again,
-> this is from a press release so who knows.

 -DJ>Apart from the actual first person character, who is more important?

Professor DuBois, but we mostly see him in Rico's memories.


--- QM v1.31
 * Origin: Ministry of Peace - Carson City, NV (1:213/700.2)

Ä [31] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 128 of 249
 From : Michael Edinger                     1:3654/144      .îí 18 .àp 96 15:38
 To   : All
 Subj : New BBS
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE 1.11+
The Mach ][ BBS from North Carolina has now joined this echo. :)


... _.-~`~-._.-~`~-._.-~`~-._.-~`~-._.-~`~-._.-~`~-._.-~`~-._.-~`~-._
--- GEcho 1.11+
 * Origin: [ The Mach ][ BBS ] - RA 2.02+ - USR DS V.34+/33600 (1:3654/144)

Ä [31] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 129 of 249
 From : Leonard Lin                         1:141/415       .îí 18 .àp 96 17:54
 To   : David Johnston
 Subj : Starship Troopers
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

-=> Quoting David Johnston to Bill Clements <=-

 -> little resemble the book. The lack of female Mobile Infantry
 -> troopers is sure to be noticed. History and Moral Philosophy,
 -> fully 10% of the written copy, is far from being politically

 DJ> Interesting issue.  Military service is required for the vote.  If
 DJ> women are barred from combat duty then either they don't have the vote,
 DJ> or have the vote without having to take the risks that the other half
 DJ> do.

They can't be MI's, but as Carmen (I think?) volunteered for the service.
In fact, I think you guys missed on the fact that the Navy is just the
opposite, with an almost (if not) all female composition.  So, while still
politically incorrect, does sort of even it out in a way...  Besides,
Heinlein didn't mention anything about the K9's or the Army Corp of
Engineers, just that the MI's were a paternalistic organization and that
the Space Navy were mostly women...

... No sense being pessimistic.  It wouldn't work anyway.
--- Blue Wave/386 v2.20
 * Origin: The Wacko Board FD-2.20c V.fc v34 203-384-2453  384-2102 (1:141/415)

Ä [31] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 130 of 249
 From : Mark Jones                          1:105/302.47    .åò 14 .àp 96 19:17
 To   : Angela Smith
 Subj : Octavia Butler
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On (12 Mar 96) Angela Smith wrote to Mark Jones...

 MJ> You bet! I read everything she writes. She has a vivid
 MJ> imagination and writes extremely well (even though her sense of
 MJ> life is really depressing). I didn't care for the Xenogenesis
 MJ> series when I

 AS> You're the 2nd person to say that...Even though she can be
 AS> depressing, IMO she says things a lotta people don't wanna hear
 AS> thru herbooks sometimes , like about racism, human sexuality and
 AS> stuff that makes folks squirm! I am waiting for the next book
 AS> anyway with bated breath...

  That's not it, though.  Not for me.  When I say that her sense of
life is really depressing, I'm referring to the fact that nearly every
relationship in her fiction is antagonistic, and even the "good" ones
tend to be based on a balance of power.  And virtually every novel
she's ever written consists of putting someone into an unbearable
situation from which they CANNOT escape--and then seeing how they bear
it (or fail to bear it).
  Still, despite her very dark view of humanity (and of life), she's a
wonderful writer and I am also looking forward to her next novel.


--- PPoint 1.78
 * Origin: Folcroft Sanitarium (hsmith@cure.com) (1:105/302.47)

Ä [31] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 131 of 249
 From : Mark Jones                          1:105/302.47    .åò 14 .àp 96 19:21
 To   : Gary Warren
 Subj : How does Catherine survive into new B&B miniseries??
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On (12 Mar 96) Gary Warren wrote to Mark Jones...

 MJ> What *I* would like to see is a Beauty & The Beast/Quantum Leap
 MJ> cross-over miniseries. Sam Beckett leaps in to SAVE Catherine so
 MJ> that she doesn't die in the first place! It would be GREAT!
 GW>
 GW> I'm not sure about that, unless Sam and Al took a bunch of troops
 GW> from the New Mexico lab to leap with them to Gabriel's
 GW> headquarters/hangout. If you'll remember, it was WELL fortified
 GW> floor to floor with henchmen, which was why Vincent was too late
 GW> to save Catherine from being poisoned.

   That isn't necessarily the case.  It depends on *when* Sam leaps
in, and *who* Sam possesses.  He could abort the whole thing before
Gabriel ever gets his hands on Catherine.  Or he could leap into one
of the armed goons guarding Catherine and find a way to help her
escape.  Or he could leap into a policeman (or DA--as I recall, in the
fan-fic story, he possessed Joe, Catherine's DA pal).  A cop or a DA
who figured out where she was being held *could* gather an army.

 GW> What I'd MUCH prefer instead of Catherine is to have Cat's replacement
 GW> become solidly Vincent's love interest.  Can't remember the actress's
 GW> name, but until last year, she was the unknown fourth half-sister
 GW> in NBC's SISTERS (which supposedly is in its final season).

   I think you're solidly in the minority on this one.  And since
Linda Hamilton is supposed to be involved in the story, I don't think
it has a prayer of happening that way.


--- PPoint 1.78
 * Origin: Folcroft Sanitarium (hsmith@cure.com) (1:105/302.47)

Ä [31] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 132 of 249
 From : Mark Jones                          1:105/302.47    .åò 14 .àp 96 19:25
 To   : Todd Sullivan
 Subj : 'bugs' in ST: Generations
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On (12 Mar 96) Todd Sullivan wrote to Mark Jones...

 MJ> Meanwhile, in the "real" world, the planet was destroyed, the
 MJ> Enterprise and its crew were destroyed and everything we see in
 MJ> ST:TNG from there on out is part of his fantasy....
 TS>
 TS> The only thing that destroys this line of reasoning is Worf's
 TS> assignment to DS9.

   Not at all.  Worf is dead.  EVERYTHING happening in the Federation
is part of Picard's fantasy--we're seeing the Federation as Picard
thinks it exists.  Not as it really is....


--- PPoint 1.78
 * Origin: Folcroft Sanitarium (hsmith@cure.com) (1:105/302.47)

Ä [31] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 133 of 249
 From : Mark Jones                          1:105/302.47    .óá 16 .àp 96 15:53
 To   : Jeff Hancock
 Subj : How does Catherine surviv
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On (14 Mar 96) Jeff Hancock wrote to Mark Jones...

 JH> Peter David did one in one of his "But I Digress..." columns, and
 JH> it was included in the trade paperback collection of the same
 JH> name. May find it at a comic shop, but you'll probably have to
 JH> have the owner order it from the Previews catalog.
 JH>
 JH> And yes, he mentioned that he found out later there was a fan-fic
 JH> which took the same idea in a different direction. Dunno about
 JH> that one.

   Yes, I'd heard that Peter David had done a B&B/QL cross-over.  But
the one *I* saw (but didn't buy, darn it, at a convention three years
ago) was by a woman.  I didn't buy it because they wanted way too much
money for it--I hardly ever by hardback novels by *name* writers, much
less equally pricy xeroxed fan-fiction....
   I wish now that I had bought it anyhow.  The whole notion is just
so entertaining that I regret passing it by.


--- PPoint 1.78
 * Origin: Folcroft Sanitarium (hsmith@cure.com) (1:105/302.47)

Ä [31] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 134 of 249
 From : Mark Jones                          1:105/302.47    .óá 16 .àp 96 15:56
 To   : Brion Lienhart
 Subj : Catherine Returns
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On (15 Mar 96) Brion Lienhart wrote to Mark Jones...

 BL>  -MJ>   What other options are there?
 BL>
 BL> Ooh, ooh! Here's another one: The Sliders come tripping through
 BL> and pick up a Catherine from a parallel dimension where she never
 BL> met Beastie Boy, and drop her off on the TV show dimension.

   Say!  That's got potential.  (Or better still, they find a
Catherine from a world where VINCENT died.  And they drop her off on a
world where Vincent is mourning his lost Catherine.  B&B couldn't have
gotten much more lovey-dovey anyhow (though I liked it a lot, don't
get me wrong!), but having both characters *know* what it was like to
have lost the other, well....


--- PPoint 1.78
 * Origin: Folcroft Sanitarium (hsmith@cure.com) (1:105/302.47)

Ä [31] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 135 of 249
 From : Wes Yahola                          1:123/569       .òp 19 .àp 96 04:26
 To   : Brion Lienhart
 Subj : SLIDERS
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE 1.11+

 -WY>     It turned out (in typical tv fashion) that he got hit in the
 -WY>shoulder. No small wound, but they did show him suffering some from it
 -WY>in the [Sorcererworld*] episode. Splitting hairs tho', no big thing.
 -WY>*can't remeber the episode name

 BL> Yah know, contrary to popular belief, being shot doesn't necessarily
 BL> mean instant death. 80% of people shot with handguns survive (IIRC,
 BL> the guard used his pistol to shoot him). I'm pretty sure that I said
 BL> at the time of the "finale" that it was just a flesh-wound.

  You may well have. I've slept since then I have no idea. :>
That Quin's a primary character also pretty well convinced me he'd survive if
the series did.

... I tried to contain myself, but I escaped.
--- Blue Wave/RA v2.12 [NR]
 * Origin: 9 out of 5 Schizos prefer Lunatic Fringe! 382-LUST (1:123/569)

Ä [31] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 136 of 249
 From : Wes Yahola                          1:123/569       .òp 19 .àp 96 04:26
 To   : Tony Trujillo
 Subj : Sliders is BACK!
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE 1.11+

 -=> Tony Trujillo had this to say to Wes Yahola <=-

 TT> Speaking of Harry, I've never read any of his books. The only book
 TT> I attempted to read by him was called THE CASE OF THE TOXIC SPELL
 TT> DUMP...which I in fact dumped about 40 pages into it. Are there some
 TT> other books (I do know if GUNS OF THE SOUTH) that I should really
 TT> check out?

    I've never read any of his novels (economic reasons), but I have a great
collectionof his short stories called - "Departures". Probably a good place to
start.


... explain counter clockwise to one with a digital watch.
--- Blue Wave/RA v2.12 [NR]
 * Origin: 9 out of 5 Schizos prefer Lunatic Fringe! 382-LUST (1:123/569)

Ä [31] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 137 of 249
 From : JOHN ROSS                           1:3400/23       .òp 19 .àp 96 02:32
 To   : NICOLAI SHAPERO
 Subj : Nuclear
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.SPTH: FidoNet#1:3400/23 :369/110

NS>Yes, I read that one.  The aliens looked like large dogs, but their eyes wer
NS>set underneath the muzzle.  Reason?  Mr. Niven's explanation was something
NS>along the lines of "otherwise, they wouldn't be able to see anything that th
NS>were working on close to their chests" (never having tried, apparently, to w
NS>on something close to his own chest and discovering that there's this
NS>remarkable thing called a neck, that bends...)  The alien race called

Actually ,Niven's rationalization was that the Dog-like muzzle would
block LOS even if the neck did bend.Try putting on a Donald Duck bill
,or a decent Werewolf muzzle and then checking out your upper chest.

---
 þ SLMR 2.1a þ ..Played poker with Tarot cards.Got a flush.5 people died

--- AdeptXBBS v1.07a (Registered)
 * Origin: AdeptXBBS (1:3400/23)

Ä [31] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 138 of 249
 From : JOHN ROSS                           1:3400/23       .òp 19 .àp 96 02:32
 To   : BRION LIENHART
 Subj : Starship Troopers
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.SPTH: FidoNet#1:3400/23 :369/110

BL>On Tue Mar 12, Nicolai Shapero said to James Walton:
BL> MH> Michael Ironside is in final negotiations to star in Paul
BL> MH> Verhoeven's sci-fi action film _Starship Troopers_. Ironside
BL> MH> last worked with Verhoeven on his hit sci-fi epic _Total
BL> MH> Recall_.

BL> JW>Too old.  Ironside is a poor choice.

BL> -NS>I was thinking about it on the work and it hit me that he might make a
BL> -NS>good Sargeant Zim...

BL>That's what I was thinking too. However, unless they did a whole lot of
BL>rewriting, I wouldn't call Sgt Zim a starring role. Then again, this is from
BL>press release so who knows.

Didn't Sgt Zim star in the chapter as the Senior NCO in the part where
the main Character is a 3rd LT and they are digging out bugs?

---
 þ SLMR 2.1a þ please keep honking...I need a second to reload!

--- AdeptXBBS v1.07a (Registered)
 * Origin: AdeptXBBS (1:3400/23)

Ä [31] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 139 of 249
 From : Nicolai Shapero                     1:102/524       .îí 18 .àp 96 02:53
 To   : Brion Lienhart
 Subj : Starship Troopers
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Mar 15 10:55>, Brion Lienhart (1:213/700.2) wrote to Nicolai Shapero:

 BL>That's what I was thinking too. However, unless they did a whole
 BL>lot of rewriting, I wouldn't call Sgt Zim a starring role.

Well, if they wrote the script for it, Zim could have a pretty big part.
Actually, the only "starring" role would be Rico, if they kept really close to
the book.  But if they kept totally faithful to the book, it wouldn't make all
that great a movie (IMNSHO).

-- Nicolai Shapero, the Mad Russian Sysop of StormGate Aerie

--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [31] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 140 of 249
 From : Nicolai Shapero                     1:102/524       .îí 18 .àp 96 02:56
 To   : JOHN ROSS
 Subj : 0 of 3: Rules
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Mar 16 07:30>, JOHN ROSS (1:3400/23@fidonet) wrote to NICOLAI SHAPERO:

 JR>IMNSHO?
 JR>Sorry,but I'm  a little new to cyber-speach.

In
My
Not
So
Humble
Opinion

-- Nicolai Shapero, the Mad Russian Sysop of StormGate Aerie


--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [31] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 141 of 249
 From : Nicolai Shapero                     1:102/524       .îí 18 .àp 96 02:58
 To   : David Johnston
 Subj : Starship Troopers
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Mar 17 00:25>, David Johnston (1:342/14) wrote to Bill Clements:

 DJ>Interesting issue.  Military service is required for the vote.
 DJ>If women
 DJ>are barred from combat duty then either they don't have the vote,
 DJ>or
 DJ>have the vote without having to take the risks that the other
 DJ>half do.

In Starship Troopers, women weren't barred from serving (they appear to have
made up the majority of the Navy's pilots, for one thing, IIRC).  They just
weren't ground pounders, by and large.

-- Nicolai Shapero, the Mad Russian Sysop of StormGate Aerie


--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [31] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 142 of 249
 From : Frank Glover                        1:2613/477      .îí 18 .àp 96 20:18
 To   : Barton Paul Levenson
 Subj : Re: Where's Newt?
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

BP>  I haven't seen her in anything else, but then I haven't really been
BP>  looking...
BP>  I was appalled that she apparently gets killed in Aliens cubed.
BP>  After all that trouble in the 2nd film, what ass thought that one up?
BP>   I hope IV is better...

   Agreed, though someone else was playing Newt and Hicks there.

   Word is the next Aliens movie involves a clone of Ripley. Shouldbe
interesting to see how credibly they can do this. (Although I'd rather deal with
it the way some say ST:5 and the last season of Beauty and the Beast be dealt
with. Have opening scene with Ripley/Kirk/Vincent awaken wide-eyed saying; "Wow,
what a dream...!")

   Frank


--- QuickBBS 2.80 GoldBase (Zeta-1)
 * Origin: The Matrix Data Bank BBS, Rochester, Ny (1:2613/477)

Ä [31] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 143 of 249
 From : Frank Glover                        1:2613/477      .îí 18 .àp 96 20:48
 To   : Jon Helis
 Subj : Re: Serendipity
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

JH>   DJ> Of course, it's been a long time since I saw regulation
JH>  mini-skirts on
JH>   DJ> a starship...
JH>
JH>  Those mini-skirts made me think a little of Buck Rogers in the
JH>  25th Century.  In the scene at the beginning with the Admiral,
JH>  she looked like she was wearing a CD Single on her uniform!  Did
JH>  it look like that to you?

   I'm reminded of a DC comics story on the end of the original 5 year mission.
Captian Will Decker comes aboard, wearing the gray uniform we see later in
ST:TMP, and Uhura asks if this is to be new Starfleet issue. Decker replies that
they're considering it.....

   Uhura: "Well, if you're taking a poll sir, count one yes vote from me."

   Decker: "Thank you, Lieutenant, I'll keep it in mind."

   After he leaves the bridge, Scotty says (as nearly as I can remember all
this);

   "What's thot yer sayin' Uhura? I for one, don't fancy flyin' around the
universe in a pair of pajamas!"

    Uhura (slightly cold): "You might feel differently, Scotty, if you just
spent the last five years wearing a *miniskirt!*"

    Scotty (caught off guard): "Uhh....aye. There is that...."

   Frank


--- QuickBBS 2.80 GoldBase (Zeta-1)
 * Origin: The Matrix Data Bank BBS, Rochester, Ny (1:2613/477)

Ä [31] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 144 of 249
 From : Frank Glover                        1:2613/477      .îí 18 .àp 96 20:58
 To   : Bill Clements
 Subj : Re: STARSHIP TROOPERS
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

BC>  It will be interesting to see what Hollywood does with this
BC>  classic of military SF, but I seriously doubt that I will like
BC>  the result. In view of political correctness the screenplay will
BC>  little resemble the book. The lack of female Mobile Infantry
BC>  troopers is sure to be noticed. History and Moral Philosophy,
BC>  fully 10% of the written copy, is far from being politically
BC>  correct. I feel sure that we'll see female M.I. and that H&MP
BC>  will be glossed over, if it's mentioned at all. When I see the
BC>  above I'll know that the screenwriter was given an outline and a
BC>  list of technical terms, and the resulting special effects, and
BC>  told "go to it". Then I'll be unhappy, even though I fully
BC>  expected Hollywood to butcher yet another _GOOD_ book.

   I wonder how well `The Forever War' would survive such a film translation?
Haldeman already had most of the `PC' elements in place, including women in the
Infantry. *Properly* handeled, it could come off as well as the Marines in
`Aliens,' I would think.

   Except homosexuality as the normal state of the world will stick in the
throats of some people....

    I suppose ( admittedly oversymplyfing here ) conservatives might like
Starship Troopers, and dislike The Forever War....

   Frank


--- QuickBBS 2.80 GoldBase (Zeta-1)
 * Origin: The Matrix Data Bank BBS, Rochester, Ny (1:2613/477)

Ä [31] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 145 of 249
 From : Bill Clements                       1:18/230        .îí 18 .àp 96 18:09
 To   : David Johnston
 Subj : SHOOTING AND VIOLENCE
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
From the desk of a cynical old man...

 DJ> I was just watching "Star Command" premiere or pilot, I'm not sure
 DJ> which and the thought occured to me that the "anti-violence" crusade
 DJ> (which I loathed and despised) may have actually done me a favor.
 DJ> Could it be that there is a bigger market for fantasy and sci-fi action
 DJ> shows because there is a demand for action/adventure which can be
 DJ> filled by these shows without exciting much outcry because of the
 DJ> "unrealistic" setting.  After all, kids aren't going to be inspired to
 DJ> grab a laser and shoot it out with aliens or whatever.

I was born in Sebring Florida which is in the rural south. I
still live in the community of my birth and note the alarming
changes that have taken place in it since my childhood.

In the Sebring of my youth the ratio of firearms to people was
about one to four. That, by the way, was the average annual
ratio. In the summer when the tourists had returned to the north
the ratio was closer to one to two. Yet death by gunshot was
virtually unknown in our small community.

Sebring in the 1950's and 1960's was a small community with an
agricultural/tourism based economy. The tourism was of the fixed
residential variety; old folks who came south, lived in their
own homes all winter, and then went back north. This economy
provided few, if any, jobs for young men. Of course in the mid
to late 1960's most of our young men were scrambling for student
deferments to avoid Vietnam.

The permanent male population of Sebring was made up largely of
tradesmen and agricultural workers of the cattle and citrus
industries. Of these men most were family men and a large
percentage were hunters. The children of these hunters were
disciplined; touch one of Daddy's guns and eat, for that matter
sleep, standing up for a week; and educated about firearms. As a
matter of fact most of the boys in those households participated
in hunting and everyone ate the product thereof.

As I see it the current problems with shootings and violence
that we as a society are experiencing stem from three issues:

  1. Explosive population growth
  2. Diminished parental ability to discipline children
  3. Misinformation about firearms and killing

I will illustrate with a news item posted April 11, 1994 on the
NEWSLINK BBS by the News Director of WWOJ/WWTK RADIO; a quote
from "A whuppin' can help more than it hurts" Commentary The
Tampa Tribune-Times, Sunday, March 10, 1996 by Joseph H. Brown,
a Tribune editorial writer; and a quote from David Drake in "THE
FIFTEEN-YEARS AFTERWORD", published in "AT ANY PRICE"
(C)opyright 1985 by David Drake.

----------------- BEGIN WWOJ/WWTK RADIO QUOTE -------------------
(TALLAHASSEE) - A FLORIDA STATE UNIVERSITY STUDY SHOWS CRIME IN
THE UNITED STATES FOLLOWS A NATIONAL PATTERN RATHER THAN STATE
OR LOCAL TRENDS. GEOGRAPHY PROFESSOR MORTON WINSBERG SAYS CRIME
GOES UP OR DOWN IN NORTH DAKOTA MUCH LIKE THE NATIONAL AVERAGE,
BUT IT DOES THE SAME IN FLORIDA. F-S-U CRIMINOLOGY PROFESSOR TED
CHIRICOS SAYS THE KEY FACTOR IS THE NUMBER OF YOUNG MALES IN THE
POPULATION. HE SAYS THE MORE MALES YOU HAVE BETWEEN AGES 16 AND
24, THE MORE CRIME YOU AN AREA HAS.

CHIRICOS SAYS THE CURRENT CRIME HYSTERIA HAS LITTLE TO DO WITH
ACTUAL CRIMINAL ACTIVITY. HIS RESEARCH SHOWS THE CRIME RATE IN
AMERICA ROSE MORE THAN 100 PERCENT IN THE 1960S AND MORE THAN 50
PERCENT IN THE '70S.  ..BUT HAS REMAINED RELATIVELY CONSTANT THE
LAST DECADE AND A HALF.
------------------ END WWOJ/WWTK RADIO QUOTE --------------------
----------------- BEGIN JOSEPH H. BROWN QUOTE -------------------
Government efforts to protect children's rights have already
weakened parents' ability to discipline their children. Some kids
warn their parents constantly that any disciplinary measures will
result in a call the child-abuse authorities.

In all of the discussions by social workers and lawmakers on how
to combat our growing juvenile crime problem, the diminished
ability of parents to punish their children is never brought up
as one of its "root causes."
------------------ END JOSEPH H. BROWN QUOTE --------------------
------------------- BEGIN DAVID DRAKE QUOTE ---------------------
A lot of fictional violence has been cleaned up. When I was a
kid, I watched Davey Crockett shoot an Indian into a neat,
bloodless swan dive from a tree branch. Nowadays you can see a
lot of the equivalent thing on TV, folks using fully-automatic
weapons which do even less obvious injury than Davey's flintlock
had. In prose, the normal technique is for the victim to fall
over, out of the storyline, and permit the author to get on to
matters of greater interest.

And that's fine, no problem, we all do what we do.... But for my
part, I don't want kids joining the Marines--or politicians
voting to deploy those Marines--because at the back of their
minds they have the notion that real violence is clean and cute.

Violence is sometimes necessary? Maybe; I won't advocate
unilateral disarmament until I'm willing to disarm myself, which
at the I'm not. But the look and sound and _smell_ of the results
of people killing one another--that should be clear to everybody.

Everybody who might be asked some day to kill, or might vote that
other people go out and kill for them.
-------------------- END DAVID DRAKE QUOTE ----------------------

Misinformation about firearms and killing, diminished parental
ability to discipline children, and explosive population growth
have given us a society in which death by gunshot, as noted by
the Surgeon General, is the leading cause of death in American
males between the ages of 14 and 24. The human species is still
being culled and the problem of overpopulation is being dealt
with directly. It may be old fashioned but killing off a portion
of the breeding stock that proves to be inferior is still the
best way to check population growth and at the same time improve
the species.  Think of it as evolution in action...

Books Reviewed:

In David Drake's books that chronicle the exploits of Colonel
Alois Hammer's regiment, the Slammers, the smell of blood, hot
metal, smoke, feces, filth, and fear, as well as the whine of
overburdened engines, the howl of incoming rounds, the screams
of the wounded and dying, and the maelstrom sound of battle, are
combined with the ugliness of battlefield living conditions, the
horror of being trapped on the killing ground, and the attitudes
and actions that permeate the professional military throughout
the world, and displayed for the all to see.

As a veteran of the 1969 Vietnam Campaign I can tell you that
Drake's vision of the reality of war is microscopic in detail.
Like they say in the spaghetti sauce commercial ... it's in
there.

These books are a must read for everyone wishing to view the
realities of warfare in gritty perfection.

HAMMER'S SLAMMERS  (C) 1987 by David Drake, ISBN: 0-671-65632-5
AT ANY PRICE       (C) 1985 by David Drake, ISBN: 0-671-55978-8
COUNTING THE COST  (C) 1987 by David Drake, ISBN: 0-671-65355-5

ROLLING HOT        (C) 1989 by David Drake, ISBN: 0-671-69837-0
THE WARRIOR        (C) 1991 by David Drake, ISBN: 0-671-72058-9
THE SHARP END      (C) 1993 by David Drake, ISBN: 0-671-87632-5

--RWC

"A generation which ignores history has no past - and no future." --LL
... LazarusTags

--- PPoint 2.00 / QWK

--- FLAME v1.1
 * Origin: ANCESTRY TBBS Shadows of forgotten ancestors 941-382-9061 (1:18/230)

Ä [31] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 146 of 249
 From : Angel Araquistain                   2:344/3         .òp 19 .àp 96 14:25
 To   : James Walton
 Subj : Starship Troopers
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 Hi, James.

 NS> I was thinking about it on the work and it hit me that he
 NS> might make a good Sargeant Zim...

 JW> If I remember correctly, Sargent Zim is Black.  As is Juan Rico, but
 JW> with Hispanic origins.

John Rico is from Philippines (Asia).

Greetings. Angel.


... íVotad a Cthulhu! èPor que os vais a conformar con un mal menor?
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

--- PCBoard (R) v15.22 (OS/2) 10
 * Origin: Kender (2:344/3)

Ä [31] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 147 of 249
 From : Tam Phan                            1:143/362       .òp 19 .àp 96 20:50
 To   : Mark Jones
 Subj : Sliders is BACK!
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 On 03-13-96 Mark Jones wrote to Henry Triplett...

 MJ>    Personally, I think the show would go on quite well without the
 MJ> Crying Man.  For that matter, I think it could survive the loss of any
 MJ> ONE actor.  Two replacements, I think, would sink it.  My personal
 MJ> preference (from favorite to least favorite) are:  Arturo, Wade, Quinn
 MJ> and Crying Man.
 MJ>    I think they're writing *all* the characters more intelligently
 MJ> this season.  Even Crying Man (whom I hated last season, because he
 MJ> was there primarily to be comic relief--and I hate such things.)
 MJ>    It's looking up.

     I don't think it should lose anybody, actually. I like
     all of them, but if I had to rank it, I'd say Quinn, Arturo,
     Wade/Crying Man. And I'd probably change that list again.

---
 * OFFLINE 1.58 * The OFFICIAL Tagline of the 1994 World Cup!
 * Origin:  (1:143/362)

Ä [31] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 148 of 249
 From : Todd Sullivan                       1:202/720.3     .îí 18 .àp 96 21:04
 To   : Aaron Turon
 Subj : Star Trek
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
In a message of 16 Mar 96 Aaron Turon wrote to All         :

 AT> Who saw Voyager last wednesday? Wasn't that cool? CYA! ;)

Ha!  You ain't seen nothing yet!

No spoilers, 'cause I ain't telling.

Todd Sullivan

... "An error is the more dangerous the more truth it contains."
     --Henri-Frederic Amiel

-*- ASTG 1.9

--- Spot 1.3a Unregistered
 * Origin: Todd's Spot in the Continuum (1:202/720.3)

Ä [31] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 149 of 249
 From : Todd Sullivan                       1:202/720.3     .îí 18 .àp 96 21:06
 To   : Barton Paul Levenson
 Subj : 0 of 3: Rules
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
In a message of 16 Mar 96 Barton Paul Levenson wrote to me:

 BPL> Nobody asked you.

And I don't recall the Mod asking your opinion either, Barton.

You can reply, but you're not getting an answer.

You were wrong, and we all saw it.

Todd Sullivan

... There /must/ be a God.  What else explains Leather Miniskirts?

-*- ASTG 1.9

--- Spot 1.3a Unregistered
 * Origin: Todd's Spot in the Continuum (1:202/720.3)

Ä [31] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 150 of 249
 From : Todd Sullivan                       1:202/720.3     .îí 18 .àp 96 21:12
 To   : Kim Wheat
 Subj : Trek Movie "bugs"
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
In a message of 17 Mar 96 Kim Wheat wrote to me:

 KW> ---<<*<<< Todd dazzled Buc Wheat with these words of wisdom!!
 KW> >>>**>>----

 TS>> I'll start with STIV.

 TS>> These are mostly involving the USS Enterprise aircraft carrier, which
 TS>> was really the USS Ranger (CV-61, not CVN-65).

 TS>> The Marines don't patrol the engineering spaces at any time.

 KW>  And as a 23 yr sailor myself, loved how they could 'detect' the
 KW>  present of the 'intruders' and track um!!! <lol>

No kidding.  As though they could tell by looking at the radar repeaters in CIC
and tell the location of a power drain they shouldn't.  Not even the Engineers
[I was an EM3....twice :^)] would have been able to do that.

Todd Sullivan

... Free the flame and sear the grasses, 'Til the dawning red star passes.

-*- ASTG 1.9

--- Spot 1.3a Unregistered
 * Origin: Todd's Spot in the Continuum (1:202/720.3)

Ä [31] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 151 of 249
 From : Rod Mammitzsch                      1:2424/1313     .îí 18 .àp 96 15:14
 To   : Nicolai Shapero
 Subj : Sci fi
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
q

NS>  RM>        It's only 10$ to join.  If your interested send a check
NS>  RM>or money order to THE PHAROS PROJECT
NS>
NS>  RM>        ROD MAMMITZSCH (Pharos Exec. Member)
NS>
NS> Please recall relevant section of the rules for this conference:
NS>
NS> *********************************************************************
NS> Commercial messages (anything that solicits money) are OFF TOPIC.  If
NS> you're going to  make money on the deal, TAKE IT TO NETMAIL.  This is
NS> not a "for sale" echo, nor is it an "investor's hotline" echo.
NS> *********************************************************************
NS>
NS> Do not post ANYTHING here asking for money without prior approval
NS> from  yours truly.

        oops. sorry.  but I was just replying to the previous message which by
necessity must mention the club's membershp dues.  The club is not commercial,
its non-profit where noone would "make" any money on the deal.  But I'll be sure
to refrain from doing it again in this forum.
.
        ROD

--- Xenolink 1.981
 * Origin: The Phantasmagoria - "Tekeli-li! Tekeli-li!" (1:2424/1313)

Ä [31] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 152 of 249
 From : Steve Thomas                        1:279/27        .pä 20 .àp 96 06:41
 To   : Mark Jones
 Subj : Catherine Returns
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 MJ> My final suggestion is that Sam Becket (QUANTUM LEAP) leaps in to
 MJ> change history so that Catherine does not, in fact, die as we saw in
 MJ> the original series.  This is my personal favorite approach.  It
 MJ> negates the entire third season *without* resorting to "Bobby steps
 MJ> out of the shower"-style clumsiness.  Yes, they're ignoring everything
 MJ> they showed up during the third season--but for a reason.  And that
 MJ> reason is part of the story.  [I personally enjoyed the third season,
 MJ> but I'm in a small minority in that regard.]

How about if Sam jumps into Vincent and stops the killers in time, loads
them up on the helicopter and they have an unfortunate, well, accident;
then Vincent (Sam) finds a loophole in the caverns and is propelled back
to the lab to be with his lady love!  Happily ever after for all!!!

I LOVE IT!!!!!

                                  --Steve

I can just see the look on Al's face when he sees Vincent!

... "Ziggy, Gooshi!  Never mind, it's in my hand." -- Al

___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20 [NR]



--- PCBoard (R) v15.22/M 2
 * Origin: <<*> Blue Powder <*>> þ St. Albans, WV þ 304-727-6733 (1:279/27)

Ä [31] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 153 of 249
 From : Steve Thomas                        1:279/27        .pä 20 .àp 96 06:41
 To   : Debbie Ayres
 Subj : HOW DOES CATHERINE SURVIV
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 DA> If you ever run across the fan-fiction version of B&tB/QL crossover,
 DA> please post the source here... I would really like to read that.

I would too!  I wrote to Mark about this in this packet.  See what you
think about my Sam into Vincent scenario!

L8R!  QL&B&TB crossover!  I love it!

                                   --Steve


... "Ziggy, Gooshi!  Never mind, it's in my hand." -- Al

___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20 [NR]


--- PCBoard (R) v15.22/M 2
 * Origin: <<*> Blue Powder <*>> þ St. Albans, WV þ 304-727-6733 (1:279/27)

Ä [31] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 154 of 249
 From : Gary Warren                         1:382/92.7      .òp 19 .àp 96 17:32
 To   : Mark Jones
 Subj : How does Catherine survive into new B&B miniseries??
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On (14 Mar 96) Mark Jones wrote to Gary Warren...

 MJ> On (12 Mar 96) Gary Warren wrote to Mark Jones...

 MJ> What *I* would like to see is a Beauty & The Beast/Quantum Leap
 MJ> cross-over miniseries. Sam Beckett leaps in to SAVE Catherine so
 MJ> that she doesn't die in the first place! It would be GREAT!
 GW>
 GW> I'm not sure about that, unless Sam and Al took a bunch of troops
 GW> from the New Mexico lab to leap with them to Gabriel's
 GW> headquarters/hangout. If you'll remember, it was WELL fortified
 GW> floor to floor with henchmen, which was why Vincent was too late
 GW> to save Catherine from being poisoned.

 MJ>    That isn't necessarily the case.  It depends on *when* Sam leaps
 MJ> in, and *who* Sam possesses.  He could abort the whole thing before
 MJ> Gabriel ever gets his hands on Catherine.  Or he could leap into one
 MJ> of the armed goons guarding Catherine and find a way to help her
 MJ> escape.  Or he could leap into a policeman (or DA--as I recall, in the
 MJ> fan-fic story, he possessed Joe, Catherine's DA pal).  A cop or a DA
 MJ> who figured out where she was being held *could* gather an army.


I sincerely (and without any flaming, ok?  :D) think you're reaching, Mark,
a bit too far.  If we're going to have impossible crossovers, for economic
and TV studio reasons, let's have one where TNG's Worf ends up in Gabriel's
HQ.  Would be neat to see him beside Vincent, no?


 GW> What I'd MUCH prefer instead of Catherine is to have Cat's
 MJ> replacement
 GW> become solidly Vincent's love interest.  Can't remember the
 MJ> actress's
 GW> name, but until last year, she was the unknown fourth half-sister
 GW> in NBC's SISTERS (which supposedly is in its final season).

 MJ>    I think you're solidly in the minority on this one.  And since
 MJ> Linda Hamilton is supposed to be involved in the story, I don't think
 MJ> it has a prayer of happening that way.


Probably not.  But I hope the aforementioned police detective appear in
this sequel, since she blew away Gabriel with Catherine's gun.



glw


... "Yield to temptation, it may not pass your way again." - L. Long

--- PPoint 1.90
 * Origin: Gary's Bar and Grill! (1:382/92.7)

Ä [31] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 155 of 249
 From : CHARLES HOGAN                       1:379/37        .îí 18 .àp 96 12:05
 To   : ALL
 Subj : New BBS in Town Win95
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE 1.2
Hello Prime Here,
I am a newcomer to this board, and would like to take this
time to offer everyone here 30 day free access on my BBS here
in Charlotte, just to make friends here.I am the Sysop of
Charles Graham & Assoc. PowerBBS for windows for my company.
        Powerbbs was the first bbs made for windows,and we are
the best kept secret in town.After you log on to the board at
523-3195 the board will ask you if you what to download the
powerful client server Power Access so you can enjoy the
eye-popin gui graphics and ear-spliting sounds of Power bbs.
go ahead treat yourself its a small file 1.3 meg and it's FREE
not sharware.
        The file PACC108.exe is a self installing program.just
run it from windows.It is win 95 compatable 32-bit access and
stuff. after it's in check the modem to make sure it's on the
right com port and then ( here's where the fun begins) click
on the button with a bunch of dots in it on the far left hand
side of the tool bar.Power access will call us right back.
        The BBS will run you through a call back program and you
will then have full access for thirty days.Look around and
enjoy yourself.You might want to play some tunes on the juke
box for a while,or go to the internet newsgroups and read the
latest news from assoc press.you could chat with the creator's
of babylon 5 or Voyager in there newsgroups.
        You might want to go to the Power Game room and spend
your time playing gui fantasy game like Dragon Sword or dos
doors games like Tradewars 2002. for the deep thinkers we have
the action packed gui game Power wars.a multi player world war.
we have others to come and see.
        One other thing you could go shopping for a modem in
our VR mall with local retailers.
        there's to much to see and do , to put in one message
so drop by and visit me at 1-704-523-3195 and get your free
access and com software(Power Access can be used to call your
favorite ansi rip gui BBS also.)
I enjoyed being here hope to be back Prime.....

--- GEcho 1.20/Pro
 * Origin: Borderline! BBS Concord, N.C. (1:379/37)

Ä [31] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 156 of 249
 From : ROBERT LIDGREN                      1:134/10        .îí 18 .àp 96 23:17
 To   : BRION LIENHART
 Subj : SLIDERS
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
-> Yah know, contrary to popular belief, being shot doesn't necessarily mean
-> instant death. 80% of people shot with handguns survive (IIRC, the guard
-> used his pistol to shoot him). I'm pretty sure that I said at the time of
-> the "finale" that it was just a flesh-wound.

Quite true.  However, not so with abdominal wounds.  People quite often go into
shock and lose too much blood when a bullet tears into intestines/bowel/or
major arteries.

If you are shot in the head or the stomach/abdomen the prognposis is pretty
poor - even whenrushed to an ICU.
--- PCBoard 15.2
 * Origin: 32 lines 40 Gig BBS, Realtime InterNet SLIP (403)299-9900 (1:134/10)

Ä [31] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 157 of 249
 From : ROBERT LIDGREN                      1:134/10        .îí 18 .àp 96 23:31
 To   : ALL
 Subj : GILLIAN ANDERSON & X-FILE
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
If you would like to see NEW photos of Gillian Anderson and a portion of

the FHM magazine interview with her, I suggest you go to this web site:

------->  http://www.sky.co.uk/one/xfiles/fhm/

-------> From there you can access part one of the interview and make
sure to check out Photos 1-3.

If you would like me to periodically post you new information about

X-Files, write me directly at my e-mail address:

 ------->robert.lidgren@bbs.logicnet.com (sigs. are not allowed here so
         ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

I'll keep it short).  If you DO NOT HAVE e-mail access, let me know and

I'll send you a message here at SFFAN.
--- PCBoard 15.2
 * Origin: 32 lines 40 Gig BBS, Realtime InterNet SLIP (403)299-9900 (1:134/10)

Ä [31] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 158 of 249
 From : ROBERT LIDGREN                      1:134/10        .îí 18 .àp 96 23:37
 To   : ALL
 Subj : NOWHERE MAN
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
NOWHWERE MAN is staying quite good in terms of the writing and suspense.  Does
anyone else here at SFFAN watch this series?  I would appreciate discussing
episodes with you if you are a fan.  I also have a pile of Nowehere Man
material to share with anyone who cares to receive it.  Once gain, I'd prefer
sending it along via e-mail than here simply because I respect Nicolai
Shapiro's concern about messages which are too long or which contain ".sigs"

I regularly send e-mail mssages which are six or seven screens long but there
seems to be an admonition not to abuse the "bandwidth "costs" in these fidonet
discussion groups.
--- PCBoard 15.2
 * Origin: 32 lines 40 Gig BBS, Realtime InterNet SLIP (403)299-9900 (1:134/10)

Ä [31] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 159 of 249
 From : Lis Carey                           1:101/230       .îí 18 .àp 96 11:52
 To   : James Walton
 Subj : STARSHIP TROOPERS
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 >JW>Too old.  Ironside is a poor choice.
 >
 >NS> I was thinking about it on the work and it hit me that he
 >NS> might make a good Sargeant Zim...
 >
 JW> If I remember correctly, Sargent Zim is Black.  As is Juan Rico, but
 > with Hispanic origins.

Juan Rico is Filipino. The book says explicitly his native language is Tagalog.
Spanish name, undoubtedly some Spanish ancestry, but he's neither "Spanish" nor
"African-American", and wouldn't look like either very much.

--- FLAME v1.0
 * Origin: Withouta Net - Drop In Anytime! - 617/846-5416 (1:101/230)

Ä [31] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 160 of 249
 From : ROBERT LIDGREN                      1:134/10        .òp 19 .àp 96 17:32
 To   : MARK JONES
 Subj : 'BUGS' IN ST: GENERATIONS
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
-> Not at all.  Worf is dead.  EVERYTHING happening in the Federation
-> is part of Picard's fantasy--we're seeing the Federation as Picard thinks it
-> exists.  Not as it really is....

        I can assure you:  Worf IS NOT DEAD!
        THERE ARE LIMITS TO PICARD'S FANTASY!

-Rob
--- PCBoard 15.2
 * Origin: 32 lines 40 Gig BBS, Realtime InterNet SLIP (403)299-9900 (1:134/10)

Ä [31] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 161 of 249
 From : Keith Stokes                        1:280/5         .òp 19 .àp 96 20:45
 To   : JOHN ROSS
 Subj : Starship Troopers
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE/2 1.2
* In a message originally to BRION LIENHART, JOHN ROSS said:

JR>Didn't Sgt Zim star in the chapter as the Senior NCO in the
JR>part where
JR>the main Character is a 3rd LT and they are digging out bugs?

But, you're discusion is about the movie. It may have no connection
with the book.


  Keith

 * Origin: Infinity (1:280/5)

Ä [31] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 162 of 249
 From : Charles Daniels                     1:203/42        .pä 20 .àp 96 13:29
 To   : Sarah Hargreaves
 Subj : QUARK!
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

> I was having a discussion about it the other day with some workmates,
> and we couldn't remember all the character names.. Quark (of course), Gene
> and Gene.. but thats all we could come up with (slack huh?).. can someone
> out there come to my rescue of sleepness nights of trying to remember the
> character names?

There was the half-plant half-woman officer named Phicus I believe.
Is there anywhere I can get this series on tape???

--- FMail 0.98
 * Origin: Deep Thought: RedDwarf,ST,SF, FREE MEAT!  916-452-9501 (1:203/42)

Ä [31] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 163 of 249
 From : Charles Daniels                     1:203/42        .pä 20 .àp 96 13:50
 To   : All
 Subj : Red Dwarf
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
I just wanted to see if there were any fellow Red Dwarf fans posting here.
I have been a regular on alt.tv.red-dwarf for about 5 years now, and have built
a collection of Red Dwarf vids, books, junk, and collectiables that would scare
any other fan.   I run Deep Thought BBS at (916) 452-9501
which holds the start of an interactive Hitchhiker's Guide and over 20MB
of RD files.   I'm just waiting for series 7 and\or the Third Smeg Ups reel!

--- FMail 0.98
 * Origin: Deep Thought: RedDwarf,ST,SF, FREE MEAT!  916-452-9501 (1:203/42)

Ä [31] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 164 of 249
 From : Tommy Kellerman                     2:205/356       .pä 20 .àp 96 00:33
 To   : All
 Subj : Alien 4
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Hello!

Does somebody know anything about Alien 4?

Please share...


/// -Tommy K.- \\\

--- Xenolink 1.981, XEmacs 1.2
 * Origin: No Limit, MoraNet on tour                              (2:205/356)

Ä [31] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 165 of 249
 From : Kay Shapero                         1:102/524       .òp 19 .àp 96 08:54
 To   : Keith Stokes
 Subj : SHADOWDANCE
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Mar 18 20:12>, Keith Stokes (1:280/5) wrote to Kay Shapero:

KS>What's Shadowdance about?
 KS>
 KS>Once again, it looks like we are talking to ourselves.

At least we're interesting conversationalists. :->

Sounds interesting - I'll have to take a look at this book myself as soon as I
finish a few other things like my semi-annual Brust-a-thon, and some fun stuff I
checked out of the LASFS library.

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Ä [31] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 166 of 249
 From : Kay Shapero                         1:102/524       .òp 19 .àp 96 08:57
 To   : All
 Subj : (1/3) Acronyms
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
ACRONYMS (and things that look like them)
part one of three posts

(last updated February 6, 1996)
This is the edited list; for the full list (including more detailed
definitions and things not particularly current) file request ACRO-
NYMS.ZIP from StormGate Aerie (1:102/524).

A couple of notes:

The purpose of this list is to provide folks with a place where they
can find out what all of those strange acronyms they see in here mean
without having to write a lot of "What is that?" messages (goodness
knows we've enough traffic in here already.)  Please don't deluge me
with obscure acronyms unless they're actively in use...)  Also please
tell me if you see something not currently in use so I can delete it.

I post this on BOTH SFFAN and in SF - not everything in here is on
topic in the latter echo!

<g>: Grin, <G>: Great Big Grin), <g,d,r>: Grin, Duck and Run
APA: Amateur Press Association.  Sort of like this bulletin board
     only each member prints up his/her own comments and passes
     them to the Official Collator (or Official Editor) to fasten
     together and distribute copies to members.  Most, but not
     all, appear monthly or bimonthly.
Authors abbreviated: Agberg = Silverberg, AnneMc = Anne McCaf-
     frey, DeJohn = John DeChancie, JRRT = J.R.R. Tolkien, KMac =
     Michael P. Kube-McDowell, LWE = Lawrence Watt-Evans, PTerry
     = Terry Pratchett, RAH = Robert A. Heinlein, Xanthony =
     Piers Anthony
AWGTHTGTTA?: Are We Going To Have To Go Through This Again?
     Alternative form is AWGTHTGTATA (...Through ALL This
     Again?).
BIP: Books In Print
BLORF: The sound generated by a very large number of EchoMessages
     arriving in a very short period of time.
BNF: Big Name Fan
BOOF: A typo for "book" which appears to have caught on.  It
     means "book".  "Bif", "bhooves" and "bhoven" have been
     suggested as the plural of "boof", possibly rotten "bif" are
     "barf", "bif in a series are "biffies" and so on.  Really
     LARGE bif may be called "beef".
BOZON:  Described in the Wunderment echo as: A particle which
     causes large problems which can often be looked at in a
     humourous light; most often applied to computer hardware
     and/or software, but not exclusively so.  See the full list
     for the delightfully silly details.
BTIC:  But then, I'm crazy.  (Sam Tuirel)
BTW: By The Way
CBIP: Current Book In Progress.  Used when you want to talk about
     the book you're reading now but don't need an OOTC because
     your message is already on-topic.  (Travis Butler)
CHVC: Columbia House Video Club (Mainly tapes)
CHLC: Columbia House Laserdisc Club (Self-explanatory)
DUFF and TAFF: Respectively the Down Under Fan Fund and the Trans
     Atlantic Fan Fund (funds to import fen from same for World-
     cons.)  A Mid Atlantic Fan Fund for well known fuggheads is
     occasionally suggested...
DUOE: Dried-Up Old Eunuch. To quote Jo Peshek "DUOE was formed in
     reaction to the claim of one infamous poster who asserted
     that an adult novel, or short story, could NOT be believable
     or realistic unless it had sex in it. Not just hand holding,
     not flirtation, not simple attraction, but full-blown (oops!
     8* ) explicit, juicy sex scenes. The poster said anyone who
     disagreed had to be a dried-up old eunich...several of us
     disagreed. We do not object to sexual content, merely dis-

     agree that it MUST appear. Thus was born the DUOE and Pru-
     ney...Pruney usually shows up when a member wants to convey
     shock (or mock shock). [This :* is a pruney. KS]
ETOL:  Evil Twin On Line.  For those occasions when you couldn't
     _possibly_ be saying the things you really want to say...
     (Sam Tuirel)
FASA: A game company that made a Star Trek role playing game,
     before Paramount (or someone) decided it was a mistake and
     pulled the rights.  AKA F**A by someone who agrees with
     Paramount.  I've never seen it, myself, so couldn't say.
(continued next post)


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Ä [31] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 167 of 249
 From : Kay Shapero                         1:102/524       .òp 19 .àp 96 08:58
 To   : All
 Subj : (2/3) Acronyms
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
ACRONYMS (and things that look like them)
part two of three posts

FBT: Frigging Blue Turtleoid.  Refers to the gigantic blue six
     legged turtle like critter with several people tied to its
     back which appears on the cover of John DeChancie's novel,
     CASTLE KIDNAPPED.  It does not appear anywhere INSIDE the
     book.
FIAWOL: Fandom Is A Way Of Life
FIJAGH: Fandom Is Just A Ghoddam Hobby (or possibly "Ghu-dam
     hobby" if you're into invoking fannish ghods [personally I
     like The Great Spider or The Church of Herbangelism -
     "Praise Herbie and Pass the Buck"], note also the fannish
     insertion of silent "h"s into things, such as "bheer".)
FILK: Is not an acronym.  It started out life as a typo of
     "fannish folk songs" and was adopted by the perpetrators of
     same.  So Filksongs are fannish folksongs.  (for more infor-
     mation ask me via e-mail, or see the FILK echo if you have
     it available...)
FITB: Fill In The Blank....
F.U.B.S. (fubs) n. [ F(ido) U(sed) B(ook) S(quad)] 1. A pack of
     hounds ravaging the countryside in search of a copy of _A
     Spell for Chameleon_. 2. A gallant band of FidoNet readers
     roaming Used Book Stores (UBS) around the world for books to
     trade with others (hopefully that the "others" want, in
     trade for another book, money, or gratitude). (definition by
     Will Purvine) Some notables include Zane Melder & Travis
     Butler, but a message to All with FUBS in the title will
     probably get you the attention you need. (Term credited to
     Glenn Chambers)  And special blessings on Travis, Keith
     Stokes, and Lisa Reeves for the FUBS t-shirt they came up
     with.
FUGGHEAD: Fannish term meaning roughly airhead, someone whose
     head is thoroughly fogged.  One can also consider the "fugg"
     to be a substitute for the more famous four letter word
     beginning with "f".
FYI: For Your Information
GAFIATE:  Get Away From It All (as in drop out of Fandom)
GIWIST: Gee I Wish I'd Said That
ICOCBW: I Could, Of Course, Be Wrong
IIRC: If I Remember Correctly. "The obligatory statement of
     modesty before making a sweeping generalization about
     something read five years ago."  (credited to Travis Butler)
IITYWIMWYBMAD: If I tell you what it means, will you buy me a
     drink?
IMHO: In My Humble (or Honest) Opinion. Also IMNSHO: In My Not-So
     Humble Opinion and IMOBO: In My Own Biased Opinion.
INPO: In No Particular Order
LASFS: The Los Angeles Science Fantasy Society, which is the
     oldest continuously meeting science fantasy society in this
     world (since Oct 17, 1934).  Every Thursday at 11513 Burbank
     Blvd., N. Hollywood, CA  91601 telephone (818) 760-9234.
LLTA: Lots and Lots of Thunderous (or Thundering) Applause
LOL: Laughing Out Loud
MLAS: Mind (or Memory) Like A Sieve (variant introduced by Joshua
     Kronengold, MLASBWABHII [Mind Like A Steel Bucket With A
     Bloody Hole In It])
NASFiC:  North American Science Fiction Convention (aka North
     AmeriCon)

NECROHIPPOSADISM: Not an acronym, and probably self evident, but
     anyway a reference to beating a dead horse.
NESFA: The New England Science Fiction Association home of NESFA
     Press among other things.  P.O. Box 809, Framingham, MA
     01701-0203
OOK!: This is not an acronym - it's the abbreviated form of Ook
     ook slobber drool!"  This started out as "Ook ook!" which Ed
     Buchman introduced to the LASFS claiming a strange lady told
     him it meant "your pleasure centers had been diddled."  He
     soon modified it to the longer form.
OOP, OP: Out Of Print
OOTC: Obligatory On Topic Comment
OOTQ: Obligatory On Topic Quote
OYDB:  Over _your_ dead body. (Sam Tuirel)
PJF: Pre Joycean Fellowship.  Steven Brust, Pamela Dean, Emma
     Bull,  Will Shetterly, Jane Yolen, and Neil Gaiman and
     various others who consider that James Joyce did the liter-
     ary world a disservice by deemphasizing plot.  To quote
     Pamela; " We're a bunch of writers who worry about the di-
     vorce of so-called popular and so-called literary values,
     and hope to reconcile them.  Some of us don't really blame
     Joyce for the breakup, and some of us do."
*plonk*: The sound of someone hitting a killfile or twit filter.
POV: Point Of View
RAH: Robert A. Heinlein
RETCON: REtroactive COntinuity; explaining changes (especially to
     a TV series) by claiming they aren't really changes.
(continued next post)


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Ä [31] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 168 of 249
 From : Kay Shapero                         1:102/524       .òp 19 .àp 96 08:59
 To   : All
 Subj : (3/3) Acronyms
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
ACRONYMS (and things that look like them)
part three of three posts

ROFLASTC! (or ROFLASC!): Rolling On The Floor Laughing And Scar-
     ing The Cat.  Originated, I'm told by Pamela Dean, who types
     with a cat on her lap.  Variants include ROFL!, ROTFLH and
     SITCLH("ROFL Hysterically", and "Sitting in the chair LH").
     Also ROFLWMCSOIA (While My Cat Stared On In Amazement),
     ROFLSHIFOMCASMC (So Hard I Fell Off My Chair And Scared My
     Cat), and any number of other things along that line.
ROTBA: Reality On The Blink Again (scientific inaccuracy or just
     plain nonsense).
RSN: Real Soon Now
RTFM: Read The Fershlugginer Manual
The Salmon Of Correction:  A useful creature for whapping those
     who annoy you.
SFBC: Science Fiction Book Club
SFWA:  Science Fiction & Fantasy Writers of America.  Sometimes
     abbreviated SFFWA.  Pronounced "sif-wa".
SIASL: Stranger In A Strange Land
SMOF:  Secret Masters of Fandom
ST:TOS, ST:TNG, ST:TAS, ST:TMP, ST:DSN: Respectively Star Trek:
     The Original Series, The Next Generation, The Animated
     Series, The Motion Picture (the first one), and Deep Space
     Nine.
TANJ: There Ain't No Justice
TANSTAAFL: There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch
TITLE, NUMBER/BIGGER NUMBER: Not an acronym, but a method of
     indicating where you are in a book.  Write the title first,
     followed by a parenthesis, followed by the page number you
     are on, followed by the total number of pages in the book.
     For example, if you were on page 12 of Mort, it would be
     MORT, 12/285.  Who came up with this is unclear.
TPTB: The Powers That Be
TRQ: To Read Queue.  Also VTRQ "Virtual To Read Queue".
TSTMATS: The Sun, The Moon and the Stars by Stephen Brust.  Good
     book.
TTBOMK: To The Best Of My Knowledge
TTFN: Ta Ta For Now.
TTYL: Type (or Talk) To You Later
UBS: Used Book Store
WAMKSAM:  Why Are My Kids (or Kitties) Staring At Me?

WIP: Work In Progress
WYLABOCTGWTR, WYLASOMWTC: Would You Like A Bowl Of Cream To Go
     With That Remark?, Would You Like A Saucer Of Milk With That
     Comment?  Created by Steven Brust (& common in Minneapa)
YAHI, YAMI, YATI: Yet Another (Highlander, Mets, or Trek) Incon-
     sistency
YAWA:  You and what army?   (Sam Tuirel)
YMMV: Your mileage may vary.

----
point of information - a message line preceeded by a > is a quote
     from a previous message and not a comment by the current
     message poster.
another point of information - the moderator of SFFAN is Nicolai
     Shapero (1:102/524).  The moderator of SF is David Dyer-
     Bennet (1:282/341).  The moderator of FILK is Kay Shapero
     (1:102/524) (note shameless plug... :->)


--- msged 2.06
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Ä [31] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 169 of 249
 From : Steve Thomas                        1:279/27        .pä 20 .àp 96 17:22
 To   : Mark Jones
 Subj : Catherine Returns
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 MJ> My final suggestion is that Sam Becket (QUANTUM LEAP) leaps in to
 MJ> change history so that Catherine does not, in fact, die as we saw in
 MJ> the original series.  This is my personal favorite approach.  It
 MJ> negates the entire third season *without* resorting to "Bobby steps
 MJ> out of the shower"-style clumsiness.  Yes, they're ignoring everything
 MJ> they showed up during the third season--but for a reason.  And that
 MJ> reason is part of the story.  [I personally enjoyed the third season,
 MJ> but I'm in a small minority in that regard.]

How about if Sam jumps into Vincent and stops the killers in time, loads
them up on the helicopter and they have an unfortunate, well, accident;
then Vincent (Sam) finds a loophole in the caverns and is propelled back
to the lab to be with his lady love!  Happily ever after for all!!!

I LOVE IT!!!!!

                                  --Steve

I can just see the look on Al's face when he sees Vincent!

... "Ziggy, Gooshi!  Never mind, it's in my hand." -- Al

___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20 [NR]



--- PCBoard (R) v15.22/M 2
 * Origin: <<*> Blue Powder <*>> þ St. Albans, WV þ 304-727-6733 (1:279/27)

Ä [31] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 170 of 249
 From : Steve Thomas                        1:279/27        .pä 20 .àp 96 17:22
 To   : Debbie Ayres
 Subj : HOW DOES CATHERINE SURVIV
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 DA> If you ever run across the fan-fiction version of B&tB/QL crossover,
 DA> please post the source here... I would really like to read that.

I would too!  I wrote to Mark about this in this packet.  See what you
think about my Sam into Vincent scenario!

L8R!  QL&B&TB crossover!  I love it!

                                   --Steve


... "Ziggy, Gooshi!  Never mind, it's in my hand." -- Al

___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20 [NR]


--- PCBoard (R) v15.22/M 2
 * Origin: <<*> Blue Powder <*>> þ St. Albans, WV þ 304-727-6733 (1:279/27)

Ä [31] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 171 of 249
 From : Marcus Green                        1:123/569       .pä 20 .àp 96 19:44
 To   : David Johnston
 Subj : Starship Troopers
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE 1.11+

 -=> Quoting David Johnston to Bill Clements <=-

 -> little resemble the book. The lack of female Mobile Infantry
 -> troopers is sure to be noticed. History and Moral Philosophy,
 -> fully 10% of the written copy, is far from being politically

 DJ> Interesting issue.  Military service is required for the vote.  If
 DJ> women are barred from combat duty then either they don't have the vote,
 DJ> or have the vote without having to take the risks that the other half
 DJ> do.

Ah, but women DO serve in the military.. in the Navy...
I believe that it was stated that the women were better pilots and had higher
tolerances for G-stresses and all. Also, when Juan and Carl went to sign up,
Carmencita also went and was shown preferential treatment by the
recruiter..remember? Although they weren't LISTED in the MI, doesn't mean that
they weren't there.. besides, if you look at the society as a whole--
women had different roles than men... not neccesarily a discrimination thing,
just a different role..:)
The whole society set-up was a good idea, IMHO. Corporal punishment, public
floggings, your parents had to be punished for YOUR actions as well, not being
able to go into public service until you prove your ability to put the good of
the whole before the wants of the few..etc.. this is what should be happening
now.. just think, crime rate down, enconomics up, children actually LEARNING TO
THINK in school??!!   Nah, just a dream world...:)

As for women having the vote but without the risks.. did you not think that the
bugs must've had some sort of space navy? They had to get to the planets
SOMEHOW... and how else would they have "plastered Buenos Aires"?

But Bill is correct in saying that most of H&MP will probably be excised...
in this "Politically Correct" day and age.. it would offend WAAYY too many
people for someone to be held accountable for their actions... go back and
reread LT. COL. Dubois' puppy-training thread and you'll see what I mean..
The whole book is a coming-of-age of Juan Rico in HIS society.. and that society
would piss off too many people in ours...

anyhoo-- sorry, had to throw my nickel in--do I get any change? :)

Marcus



... An ARMED society is a POLITE society -- Robert A Heinlein
--- Blue Wave/RA v2.12
 * Origin: 9 out of 5 Schizos prefer Lunatic Fringe! 382-LUST (1:123/569)

Ä [31] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 172 of 249
 From : Marcus Green                        1:123/569       .pä 20 .àp 96 19:44
 To   : Mark Jones
 Subj : Catherine Returns
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE 1.11+

 -=> Quoting Mark Jones to Brion Lienhart <=-

 MJ> On (15 Mar 96) Brion Lienhart wrote to Mark Jones...

 BL>  -MJ>   What other options are there?
 BL>
 BL> Ooh, ooh! Here's another one: The Sliders come tripping through
 BL> and pick up a Catherine from a parallel dimension where she never

 MJ> Say!  That's got potential.  (Or better still, they find a
 MJ> Catherine from a world where VINCENT died.  And they drop her off on a
 MJ> world where Vincent is mourning his lost Catherine.  B&B couldn't have

Hmm, sounds kinda like the recent ST: Voyager episode where they exchanged Harry
Kim and the baby for the ones that died....

You say great minds think alike????

Marcus
... "Space is big.......really,REALLY big."--- Hitchiker's Guide
--- Blue Wave/RA v2.12
 * Origin: 9 out of 5 Schizos prefer Lunatic Fringe! 382-LUST (1:123/569)

Ä [31] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 173 of 249
 From : Marcus Green                        1:123/569       .pä 20 .àp 96 19:44
 To   : Brion Lienhart
 Subj : Starship Troopers
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE 1.11+

 -=> Quoting Brion Lienhart to David Johnston <=-

-DJ>Interesting issue.  Military service is required for the vote.  If

-DJ>are barred from combat duty then either they don't have the vote, or
 -DJ>have the vote without having to take the risks that the other half do.

 BL> Who says they are banned from combat duty? Nearly all of the spaceship
 BL> pilots are female, as well as a very large portion of the navy crews.
 BL>

True, RAH (speaking as Juan) stated that "Nevertheless--guard duty was a
privilege. It was a rest stand beside that door, arms folded, feet spread,
doping off and thinking about nothing... but always warmly aware that any moment
you might see a feminine creature even though you were not privileged to speak
to her other than on duty."

"...keeping him constantly reminded that the only good reason to fight is a
living, breathing reality?"

and: "In a mixed ship, the last thing a trooper hears before a drop (maybe the
last word he ever hears) is a woman's voice, wishing him luck. If you don't
think this is important, you've probably resigned from the human race.


So, women ARE allowed in the military...and just because they aren't in the MI,
doesn't mean that they don't fight...:)

Personally, I kinda LIKE the idea of hand-to-hand combat training when
practicing with a wonderful member of the opposite sex..:>

Marcus




... "Bugs, Mr. Rico! Zillions of 'em!" " Quick, get the back-up disks!"
--- Blue Wave/RA v2.12
 * Origin: 9 out of 5 Schizos prefer Lunatic Fringe! 382-LUST (1:123/569)

Ä [31] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 174 of 249
 From : Lawrence E Dunlap                   1:106/2927      .îí 18 .àp 96 23:20
 To   : Gerry Normandeau
 Subj : weird tv
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

GN>Standing at the gallows pole Lawrence E Dunlap spat a curse on Henry
GN>Triplett, accusing him of weird tv!

GN>.ED> * UniQWK #5136*  'What does intelligence have to do with politics?'

GN>HA. How about "ULTRAMAN!" A beauty of a show. The perfect example
GN>of wonton violence on a city. The only show where the hero destroys
GN>more than the villain!

GN> Origin:(1:163/430)

   *Ultraman* certainly was very violent but found a following for a
few seasons. *Ultraman* never will win prizes for complex texture in its
scientific accuarcy values, and penultimately died a sudden death
because it tried to perperatrate a *Power Ranger* style plot episode
after episode on the basically adolescent and adult audience that
cuoldn't stomach that kind of show.

   *Power Rangers* is perfect for a school age audience that is unable
to distinguish or identify a segment of recycled stock film footage for
it as recycled footage.

   Does anybody remember a cartoon TV series where a undersea colony is
so far below the ocean the crew would need to depressurize for several
days to return to the surface? It aired on NBC sometime between 1970 and
1980 on Saturday mornings. Yes, it wasn't very imaginative or weird, it
was unusual in some respects because ordinary crises were part of the
drama of the show.

   This came during a experimental cycle in Network cartoon TV where
the programmers avoided using villans or combat to introduce drama and
it lasted only one or two years. Believe it or not, this was prior to
Congressional threats to institute intense, constricting regulation of
children's TV


Lawrence E Dunlap
(1:106/2927)
Internet E-mail "PostOakLED@AOL.COM"
___
* UniQWK #5136* Do you guys know we just passed thru a black hole in space?

--- Alexi/Mail 2.02b (#10000)
 * Origin: Computer Living F'n BBS-Houston, TX 713-444-2927 (1:106/2927)

Ä [31] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 175 of 249
 From : Nicolai Shapero                     1:102/524       .pä 20 .àp 96 06:28
 To   : JOHN ROSS
 Subj : Nuclear
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Mar 19 02:32>, JOHN ROSS (1:3400/23@fidonet) wrote to NICOLAI SHAPERO:

 JR>Actually ,Niven's rationalization was that the Dog-like muzzle
 JR>would
 JR>block LOS even if the neck did bend.Try putting on a Donald Duck
 JR>bill
 JR>,or a decent Werewolf muzzle and then checking out your upper
 JR>chest.

I have put on a muzzle, and then been able to see my chest.  And without bending
my neck, I can't see something I'm working on next to my chest without the
muzzle.

-- Nicolai Shapero, the Mad Russian Sysop of StormGate Aerie

--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [31] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 176 of 249
 From : James Walton                        1:129/260       .pä 20 .àp 96 04:14
 To   : Frank Glover
 Subj : Re: Starship Troopers
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

JW>>  Too old.  Ironside is a poor choice.
 FG>
 FG>    Too old to be which character?

It was suggested that he would be the Juan Rico character, who is in his late
teens, early 20's.  It was pointed out that Ironsides would make a good Sgt.
Zim.





--- Via Silver Xpress V4.00 SW12427
 * Origin: ConFluence '96:  Return to Mars! (1:129/260)

Ä [31] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 177 of 249
 From : James Walton                        1:129/260       .pä 20 .àp 96 04:38
 To   : Angela Smith
 Subj : National SF Clubs
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 AS> I belong to one of the "national" clubs myself nota local one...Who is
 AS> Michael Swanwick ?? I usually read the Star Wars series, Jack Chalker,
 AS> <when I can get thru a whole series>, some Star Trek, thanks to my
 AS> aunt, and Anne McCaffrey of course...What do you do at your
 AS> conventions???

Time to show the good people in this echo how uninformed I really am.  I
didn't know that there were any "national" science fiction clubs.  Tell me
about the one you belong to.  What is the name, what are the benefits, and
how to join, etc.

Michael Swanwick isn't nearly as well known as he should be.  He writes some
interesting stuff and has won the Nebula award.  He won for "Stations of the
Tide" but I think "The Iron Dragon's Daughter" was better.

Jack Chalker was our GOH a few years ago and has come to ConFluence a couple
of times since.  (The last 2 years he canceled at the last minute.)

And a national "Dragon Riders of Pern" group is run by some people who also
belong to my club.  "Fort Weyr" is sanctioned by Anne McCaffery.  (I
personally don't like Ms. McCaffery's writing, so I never joined the club.)





--- Via Silver Xpress V4.00 SW12427
 * Origin: ConFluence '96:  Return to Mars! (1:129/260)

Ä [31] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 178 of 249
 From : James Walton                        1:129/260       .pä 20 .àp 96 04:41
 To   : Nicolai Shapero
 Subj : Re: Starship Troopers
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 NS> On <Mar 14 10:35>, James Walton (1:129/260) wrote to Nicolai Shapero:


 NS> I don't remember Zim being referred to as being black (negro, remember
 NS> the time Heinlein wrote it).

The only reason I recall this is that Samuel Delaney made a point of
mentioning both Rico and Zim in an essay he wrote.  And I don't recall where
I read this essay.





--- Via Silver Xpress V4.00 SW12427
 * Origin: ConFluence '96:  Return to Mars! (1:129/260)

Ä [31] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 179 of 249
 From : JOHN ROSS                           1:3400/23       .pä 20 .àp 96 16:05
 To   : ANGEL ARAQUISTAIN
 Subj : Starship Troopers
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.SPTH: FidoNet#1:3400/23 :369/110

AA>John Rico is from Philippines (Asia).

AA>Greetings. Angel.

Actually I believe that Jaun Rico is from South America.

---
 þ SLMR 2.1a þ Nothing is so smiple that it can't get screwed up.

--- AdeptXBBS v1.07a (Registered)
 * Origin: AdeptXBBS (1:3400/23)

Ä [31] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 180 of 249
 From : HTom Trites                         1:282/62        .pä 20 .àp 96 22:53
 To   : Owen E. Oulton
 Subj : Starship Troopers
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

-> little resemble the book. The lack of female Mobile Infantry
-> troopers is sure to be noticed. History and Moral Philosophy,
-> fully 10% of the written copy, is far from being politically

 DJ> Interesting issue.  Military service is required
 DJ> for the vote.  If women
 DJ> are barred from combat duty then either they don't have the vote, or
 DJ> have the vote without having to take the risks
 DJ> that the other half do.

 Women did serve in combat (or what we would consider combat; the
ship pilots were women, to make an example.)  I don't remember there
being any female M.I.s, but I also don't remember a prohibition on
there being any.  Perhaps they merely had segregated boot camps?

 OEO> Government service is required for the vote.  Military
 OEO> service, IIRC, does get you the vote quicker, but non-
 OEO> military servive will get you there as well.

Non-military service was assigned by teh military if they couldn't find
something else for you to do -- and they couldn't get you to quit.  The
research labs, ... were staffed with military duty doers.  I thought
that there were some civilians hired to wash bottles, and that those
persons were going to remain civilians?





--- Maximus 3.01
 * Origin: SpareCom: Internet email and Fidonet (1:282/62)

Ä [31] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 181 of 249
 From : Bill Clements                       1:18/230        .pä 20 .àp 96 19:24
 To   : Kay Shapero
 Subj : WRITERS
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
From the desk of a cynical old man...

On (16 Mar 96) KAY SHAPERO wrote to BILL CLEMENTS...

 KS> Piper "touch" though.  And the stuff they wrote AFTER GKW wasn't very

                                    ^^^^^

Stuff? STUFF! What stuff ... I wasn't aware of any stuff ...

Seriously, I wasn't aware of anything beyond GKW. If you, or
someone, will supply me with the titles I will read them and
judge them for myself. Given, of course, that I can find them.

--RWC

"Be wary of alcohol. It can make you shoot at tax collectors -and miss." --LL
... LazarusTags

--- PPoint 2.00 / QWK

--- FLAME v1.1
 * Origin: ANCESTRY TBBS Shadows of forgotten ancestors 941-382-9061 (1:18/230)

Ä [31] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 182 of 249
 From : Bill Clements                       1:18/230        .pä 20 .àp 96 19:24
 To   : Kay Shapero
 Subj : WRITERS
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
From the desk of a cynical old man...

On (16 Mar 96) KAY SHAPERO wrote to BILL CLEMENTS...

 KS> Piper "touch" though.  And the stuff they wrote AFTER GKW wasn't very

                                    ^^^^^

Stuff? STUFF! What stuff ... I wasn't aware of any stuff ...

Titles please. Seriously, I wasn't aware of anything beyond GKW.
If you, or someone, will supply me with the titles I will read
the books and judge them for myself. Given, of course, that I can
find them.

"Be wary of alcohol. It can make you shoot at tax collectors -and miss." --LL
... LazarusTags

--- PPoint 2.00 / QWK

--- FLAME v1.1
 * Origin: ANCESTRY TBBS Shadows of forgotten ancestors 941-382-9061 (1:18/230)

Ä [31] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 183 of 249
 From : Bill Clements                       1:18/230        .pä 20 .àp 96 19:24
 To   : David Johnston
 Subj : STARSHIP TROOPERS
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
From the desk of a cynical old man...

On (17 Mar 96) DAVID JOHNSTON wrote to BILL CLEMENTS...

 DJ> Interesting issue.  Military service is required for the vote.  If
 DJ> women are barred from combat duty then either they don't have the vote,

Federal, not Military, Service was required to excercise
franchise or hold public office. No applicant for Federal
Service, with one exception, was refused enrollment.

--------------------- BEGIN HEINLEIN QUOTE ----------------------
I asked one of the doctors what percentage of the victims flunked
the physical. He looked startled. "Why, we never fail anyone. The
law dosen't permit us to."
---------------------------- CONTINUED --------------------------
But if you came in here in a wheel chair and blind in both eyes
and were silly enough to insist on enrolling, they would find
something silly enough to match. Counting the fuzz on a
caterpillar by touch, maybe. The only way you can fail is by
having the psychiatrists decide that you are not able to
understand the oath.
---------------------------- CONTINUED --------------------------
The thing I did most carefully was to list my preferences.
Naturally I listed all of the Space Navy jobs (other than pilot)
at the top; whether I went as power-room technician or as cook, I
knew that I prefered any Navy job to any Army job--I wanted to
travel.

Next I listed Intelligence--a spy gets around, too, and I
figured that it couldn't possibly be dull. (I was wrong, but
never mind.) After that came a long list; psycological warfare,
chemical warfare, biological warfare, combat ecology (I didn't
know what it was, but it sounded interesting), logistics corps (a
simple mistake; I had studied logic for the debate team and
"logistics" turns out to have two entirely seperate meanings),
and a dozen others. Clear at the bottom, with some hesitation, I
put K-9 Corps, and Infantry.

I didn't bother to list the various non-combatant auxiliary corps
because, if I wasn't picked for a combat corps, I didn't care
whether they used me as an experimental animal or sent me as a
laborer in the Terranizing of Venus--either one was a booby
prize.
---------------------------- CONTINUED --------------------------
in peacetime most veterans come from non-combatant auxiliary
services and have not been subjected to the full rigors of
military discipline; they have merely been harried, overworked,
and endangered
---------------------------- CONTINUED --------------------------
Under our system every voter and officeholder is a man who has
demonstrated through voluntary and difficult service that he
places the welfare of the group ahead of personal advantage.
---------------------------- CONTINUED --------------------------
we have democracy unlimited by race, color, creed, birth,
wealth, sex, or conviction, and anyone may win sovereign power
by a usually short and not too arduous term of service
---------------------------- CONTINUED --------------------------
Since sovereign franchise is the ultimate in human authority, we
insure that all who wield it accept the ultimate in social
responsibility--we require each person who wishes to exert
control over the state to wager his own life--and lose, if need
be--to save the life of the state. The maximum responsibility a
human can accept is thus equated to the ultimate authority a
human can exert. Yin and yang, perfect and equal.
---------------------- END HEINLEIN QUOTE -----------------------

I tell you three times that no individual, person, one, able to
understand the oath was denied enrollment into Federal Service.

-----------------------------------------------------------------
                            THE OATH

I being of legal age, of my own free will without coercion,
promise, or inducement of any sort, after having been duly
advised and warned of the meaning and consequences of this oath
do now enroll in the Federal Service of the Terran Federation for
a term of not less than two years and as much longer as may be
required by the needs of the Service. I swear to uphold and
defend the Constitution of the Federation against all its enemies
on or off Terra, to protect and defend the Constitutional
liberties and privileges of all citizens and lawful residents of
the Federation, its associated states and territories, to
perform, on or off Terra, such duties of a lawful nature as may
be assigned to me by lawful direct or delegated authority and to
obey all lawful orders of the Commander-in-Chief of the Terran
Service and of all officers or delegated persons placed over me
and to require such obedience from all members of the Service or
other persons or non-human beings lawfully placed under my orders
and, on being honorably discharged at the completion of my full
term of active service or upon being placed on inactive retired
status after having completed such full term, to carry out all
duties and obligations and to enjoy all privileges of Federation
citizenship including but not limited to the duty, obligation and
privilege of exercising sovereign franchise for the rest of my
natural life unless stripped of honor by verdict, finally
sustained, of court of my sovereign peers.
-----------------------------------------------------------------

From your comments it appears to have been some time since you
read "STARSHIP TROOPERS". Re-read it, it's well worth the effort.

All quotes including the oath are from "STARSHIP TROOPERS"
(C)opyright 1959 by Robert A. Heinlein.

--RWC

"Anything free is worth what you pay for it." --LL
... LazarusTags

--- PPoint 2.00 / QWK

--- FLAME v1.1
 * Origin: ANCESTRY TBBS Shadows of forgotten ancestors 941-382-9061 (1:18/230)

Ä [31] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 184 of 249
 From : Dave MacLean                        1:250/701       .pä 20 .àp 96 00:59
 To   : Paul Worley
 Subj : sci fi club
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
sure my number is 416-536-3342 and ask for Dave M because i share my phone with
another Dave.  here is a few sci fi items to wet your appetite and some trivia
questions to test your on send the answers back for grading. 1) name 3 episodes
q appeared in that did not have q as part of the title? 2)what was the first
ship riker was offered to captain ? and 3) name 9 characters that captained a
uss entrprise?  now for the sci fi items m dorn (worf) will be in the next gen
movie, 3 elements in the next movie u may not know are romulans, time travel &
the founding of the federation and the last item for this itemh.r. geiger might
be designing the borg for the movie.  hope u find this interesting. besides the
answer to the questions include in your next memo what other stuff u are into.
bye for now and keep on trekin.



--- Maximus/2 3.01
 * Origin: ¨Utopia Planitia -Where Starships & Dreams are Built! (1:250/701)

Ä [31] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 185 of 249
 From : Jon Helis                           1:3800/25       .òp 19 .àp 96 21:50
 To   : Barton Paul Levenson
 Subj : Re: QUARK!
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.GMD: 1:396/1

 -=> Quoting Barton Paul Levenson to Sarah Hargreaves <=-

 BPL> @MSGID: 1:129/26.0 314a93f4
 BPL> @REPLY: 3:620/247 56dbf416
 BPL> Ficus, the humanoid fungus and Spock parody.  Two apparent twins, each
 BPL> of whom insisted the other was a clone; I can't remember their names.
 BPL> The rest of the crew also escapes me at the moment.

The twins were both named Betty.





... ASCII stupid question, get a stupid ANSI.
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

--- PCBoard (R) v15.22/M 10
 * Origin: * DataCom BBS - Baton Rouge, La. -  (504)275-2605 - @dcbbs.com *
(1:3800/25)

Ä [31] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 186 of 249
 From : Brion Lienhart                      1:213/700.2     .pä 20 .àp 96 07:10
 To   : Marcus Green
 Subj : Catherine Returns
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On Sun Mar 17, Marcus Green said to Brion Lienhart:

 BL> Ooh, ooh! Here's another one: The Sliders come tripping through and
 BL> pick up a Catherine from a parallel dimension where she never met
 BL> Beastie Boy, and drop her off on the TV show dimension.

 -MG>Ah-Ha!!! Now that's one I might buy....After all, they brought that
 -MG>guy that Wade was interested in through, didn't they?  --Hey, whatever
 -MG>happened to him, anyway??

He split during the first couple of minutes of the first episode this season.



--- QM v1.31
 * Origin: Ministry of Peace - Carson City, NV (1:213/700.2)

Ä [31] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 187 of 249
 From : Earl Green                          1:3822/1        .pä 20 .àp 96 20:01
 To   : Robert Lidgren
 Subj : NOWHERE MAN
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

RL>NOWHWERE MAN is staying quite good in terms of the writing and suspense.  Do
RL>anyone else here at SFFAN watch this series?  I would appreciate discussing
RL>episodes with you if you are a fan.

  Hey Robert - there's at least one Nowhere Fan right here!  I don't
  always get to see it, but I do watch it whenever I can.
       e  <-- Earl Green (earl.green@3822-1.mx1.fidonet.org)  1:3822/1
            Graphics/animation artist, KPBI Fox 46/15 & KFDF UPN 32/36
---
 * SLMR 2.0 * Fort Smith: decades of tradition, unimpeded by progress.

--- QScan/PCB v1.19b / 01-0162
 * Origin: Jackalope Junction 501-785-5381 Ft Smith AR (1:3822/1)

Ä [31] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 188 of 249
 From : Boris CDuke                         2:463/2.22      .cê 24 .àp 96 23:14
 To   : James Walton
 Subj : National SF Clubs
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Hi James!

 JW> Time to show the good people in this echo how uninformed I really am.  I
 JW> didn't know that there were any "national" science fiction clubs.  Tell me
 JW> about the one you belong to.  What is the name, what are the benefits, and
 JW> how to join, etc.

There are a lot of national SF-clubs in the entire world. For instance, there is
National Fantasy Fan Federation in the States. Anyway, you can try to find
Fandom Directory produced by Harry Hopkins; all info you need is there. Or try
Locus magazine.

    Þßßß Ñ íåìåðÿíûìè,
    ÞÝßÛ
    ÞÝÛÛ îðèñ

 * Origin: Imagineering (2:463/2.22)

Ä [31] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 189 of 249
 From : Nicolai Shapero                     1:102/524       .óá 23 .àp 96 14:55
 To   : Timothy H. Willis
 Subj : Re: Star Trek Generations
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Mar 18 09:56>, Timothy H. Willis (1:306/32) wrote to Nicolai Shapero:

 TH>... "We could always remind cats our ancestors wore theirs..."

And they could reply that their relatives ate ours...

:-)

-- Nicolai Shapero, the Mad Russian Sysop of StormGate Aerie


--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [31] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 190 of 249
 From : Jerry Van Kooten                    2:280/901.37    .óá 23 .àp 96 02:07
 To   : Charles Daniels
 Subj : Red Dwarf
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Hi Charles,

Quoting <Charles Daniels> to <All> (20-Mar-96, 13:50:02)
Subject: <Red Dwarf>

 CD> I just wanted to see if there were any fellow Red Dwarf fans posting
 CD> here.

Yes, I'm here. In fact, RD is one of the few reasons I'm still here.

 CD> I run Deep Thought BBS at (916) 452-9501
 CD> which holds the start of an interactive Hitchhiker's Guide and over 20MB

And The Guide is the other reason why I'm here.

 CD> of RD files.   I'm just waiting for series 7 and\or the Third Smeg Ups
 CD> reel!

I'm with you.

Do you have e-mail? I've just subscribed to the RD mailing list.

See you,
Jerry
netmail: 2:280/901.37
e-mail : jvkooten@pi.net

--- Terminate 3.00/Pro
 * Origin: They have killed the Great Sun Jester (2:280/901.37)

Ä [31] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 191 of 249
 From : JOHN ROSS                           1:3400/23       .óá 23 .àp 96 22:39
 To   : KEITH STOKES
 Subj : Starship Troopers
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.SPTH: FidoNet#1:3400/23 :369/110

KS>But, you're discusion is about the movie. It may have no connection
KS>with the book.


I am hoping that they follow the book FAIRLY closly.

---
 þ SLMR 2.1a þ If this were an actual tagline, it would be funny.

--- AdeptXBBS v1.07a (Registered)
 * Origin: AdeptXBBS (1:3400/23)

Ä [31] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 192 of 249
 From : Barton Paul Levenson                1:129/26        .óá 23 .àp 96 07:04
 To   : Todd Sullivan
 Subj : 0 of 3: Rules
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Fuck you, too.

--- Maximus 3.01
 * Origin: SoundingBoard, Pittsburgh PA (1:129/26)

Ä [31] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 193 of 249
 From : James Walton                        1:129/260       .óá 23 .àp 96 14:55
 To   : Frank Glover
 Subj : Where's Newt?
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 FG>    Word is the next Aliens movie involves a clone of Ripley.
 FG> Shouldbe interesting to see how credibly they can do this.
 FG> (Although I'd rather deal with it the way some say ST:5 and
 FG> the last season of Beauty and the Beast be dealt with. Have
 FG> opening scene with Ripley/Kirk/Vincent awaken wide-eyed
 FG> saying; "Wow, what a dream...!")

Recall the second "Aliens" movie where Ripley is in the hospital asleep and she
wakes up from a bad dream?  A dream that a Chest-Buster was coming out of her?
That's because it actually happened!  The Ripley we saw in 2 and 3 was _already_
a clone of the one in the first movie!

---
 * Origin: ConFluence '96, July 26-28, 1996,  (1:129/260)

Ä [31] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 194 of 249
 From : James Walton                        1:129/260       .óá 23 .àp 96 04:57
 To   : Angela Smith
 Subj : Re: National SF Clubs
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 AS> you don't like Anne McCaffrey?? <gasp> Anyway it's one of those clubs
 AS> where they send you free books then you pay for 3 more over the course
 AS> of your membership then you cancel...kinda like ColumbiaHouse...But the
 AS> conventions sound interesting..A chance to meet Jack Chalker...<head
bowed>>

Jack Chalker is a very interesting speaker, but NEVER schedule him to be on a
panel before 10:00 AM.  He does most of his writing from 12 midnight to 5 AM,
then goes to bed.

The Science Fiction Book Club is very popular but it is definitely NOT a fan
oriented club.  You should search out a local club and meet science fiction
fans face to face.  I can't tell where you are calling from, but I am sure
there are small clubs and conventions local to you.





--- Via Silver Xpress V4.00 SW12427
 * Origin: ConFluence '96:  Return to Mars! (1:129/260)

Ä [31] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 195 of 249
 From : Tam Phan                            1:143/362       .åò 21 .àp 96 21:16
 To   : Earl Green
 Subj : NOWHERE MAN
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 On 03-20-96 Earl Green wrote to Robert Lidgren...

 EG>   Hey Robert - there's at least one Nowhere Fan right here!  I don't

 EG>   always get to see it, but I do watch it whenever I can.
 EG>        e  <-- Earl Green (earl.green@3822-1.mx1.fidonet.org)  1:3822/1
 EG>             Graphics/animation artist, KPBI Fox 46/15 & KFDF UPN 32/36

       Here's another one.. I'm willing to chat about it :)
---
 * OFFLINE 1.58 * I'm not prejudiced. I hate everyone equally.

 * Origin:  (1:143/362)

Ä [31] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 196 of 249
 From : Kim Wheat                           1:275/102       .åò 21 .àp 96 19:47
 To   : Charles Daniels
 Subj : Red Dwarf
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
---<<*<<< Charles dazzled Buc Wheat with these words of wisdom!! >>>**>>----

 CD> I just wanted to see if there were any fellow Red Dwarf fans posting
 CD> here. I have been a regular on alt.tv.red-dwarf for about 5 years now,
 CD> and have built a collection of Red Dwarf vids, books, junk, and
 CD> collectiables that would scare any other fan.   I run Deep Thought BBS
 CD> at (916) 452-9501 which holds the start of an interactive Hitchhiker's
 CD> Guide and over 20MB of RD files.   I'm just waiting for series 7 and\or
 CD> the Third Smeg Ups reel!

 Hi Charles,

   I'm a big fan, although I've only seen season III and IV so far!
 First got hooked through the first 2 books, and eagerly awaiting the
 3rd book to arrive on this side of the Atlantic!

 Kim :)

___ Blue Wave/DOS v2.30

--- PCBoard (R) v15.22/M 10
 * Origin: SelectiveSource VirginiaBeach,VA 804 471 6776 (1:275/102)

Ä [31] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 197 of 249
 From : Kim Wheat                           1:275/102       .åò 21 .àp 96 19:47
 To   : Marcus Green
 Subj : WORD??
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
---<<*<<< Marcus dazzled Buc Wheat with these words of wisdom!! >>>**>>----

 BP>I know this is just the kind of pseudo-theological cuteness SF
 BP>fans are always using, but please try to remember that some of us
 BP>take concepts like "the word of God" seriously.

 KW> So do I, Barton! In fact I woke up the other morning and the old guy
 KW> ...whoops...the old 'Guy' had written 'SMEG-HEAD' on my bathroom
 KW> mirror w/ my shaving cream!!

 KW> Sheesh, He certainly has one weird sense of humor!! :)

 MG> He sure does! I mean, look at the platypus!! It's a mammal, and it
 MG> lays eggs. Maybe He got ahold of some good smoke that morning or
 MG> something..:)  It's important to keep a sense of humor about Life..
 MG> because you WON'T get out of it alive, you know...

 Hah! He certainly was either on something or it was day 8 and He was
 just simply bored silly! <g>

 But don't let Barton fool ya...deep down inside he has one great
 sense of humor and I'm forever digging at him! <g>

 And some of my best friends are Platypii!! :>

 Kim :)

___ Blue Wave/DOS v2.30
 * Origin: SelectiveSource VirginiaBeach,VA 804 471 6776 (1:275/102)

Ä [31] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 198 of 249
 From : Denis Lamy                          1:167/420       .îí 18 .àp 96 07:35
 To   : Brandon Wolgast
 Subj : Generations Big Mistake
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
<** Le 13-Mar-96, BRANDON WOLGAST disait Å ALL: **>

BW> To everyone saying there are "bugs" in Generations, you are all correct,
BW> but come on, the ENTIRE movie is a "bug."  From Data's chip to Kirk's
BW> death, to whatever.  The main thing is the Nexus.  Why didn't Kirk and
BW> Picard just leave it days earlier to save the Enterprise, the station,
BW> everything.  They don't seem to mind altering time so why not just go
BW> back to before the Borg came and stop it from happening.  Also, Soran
BW> achieved what he set out to do, HE IS IN the Nexus, so he "won"
BW> basically.  If Picard and Kirk leave that doesn't mean that HE is not in
BW> it.  Also, the echos of people seem to know what is going on in the real
BW> world so the Picard in there will know everything that the Picard out
BW> there knows, and well, you know.

First bug that appear in it is the fact that you only have to cross the nexus
to be in it. Why did Soran had to move the path of the nexus to cross a
planet, he only had to fly through it with a shuttle. Or do you need to use a
starship for that (Kirk first death).


Au plaisir de vous lire,

Denis Lamy
Trois-Rivieres (Quebec, Canada)
~~~
 * VbReader 3.0 #67 * Docend Discimus (Seneca)
--- FidoPCB v1.5 beta-'e'
 * Origin: Innovatron, St-Boniface, QC (819)535-9072 (1:167/420)

Ä [31] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 199 of 249
 From : Timothy H. Willis                   1:306/32        .îí 18 .àp 96 09:56
 To   : Nicolai Shapero
 Subj : Re: Star Trek Generations
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
* Say, ain't that Nicolai Shapero & Timothy H. Willis abusin' that jackalope? *

 TH> So, are your works still in print?  I'm going to have to go get
 TH>copies and read 'em.
 TH> Well, see you around...

 NS> FGU went belly up a few years ago, so OTHER SUNS and THE ALDERSON
 NS> YARDS SHIPBOOK are out of print.  You can still find copies floating
 NS> around, though, if you look hard enough.

    *sigh*
    I spend more time in the UBS's... so, they're on my search list.
Along with a "care package" of books for a friend who's in teh Navy...
trying to locate all five of the Honor Harrington books and all of Glenn
Cook's Garret P.I. books.
    Looking forward to locating your stuff...
    Timothy & a paira cats...



... "We could always remind cats our ancestors wore theirs..."
--- FMail/386 1.0g
 * Origin: The Forum BBS-Ft Collins,CO *NODE @* (970)225-2627 (1:306/32)

Ä [31] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 200 of 249
 From : David Johnston                      1:342/14        .åò 21 .àp 96 00:02
 To   : Bill Clements
 Subj : Shooting And Violence
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
-> DJ> Could it be that there is a bigger market for fantasy and sci-fi
-> action DJ> shows because there is a demand for action/adventure which
-> can be DJ> filled by these shows without exciting much outcry because
-> of the DJ> "unrealistic" setting.  After all, kids aren't going to be
-> inspired to DJ> grab a laser and shoot it out with aliens or
-> whatever.
-> I was born in Sebring Florida which is in the rural south. I
-> still live in the community of my birth and note the alarming
-> changes that have taken place in it since my childhood.

Yeah...sure.  But you aren't saying much about either science fiction or
my message.

--- PCBoard (R) v15.21/100
 * Origin: Freddy's Place - Edm. AB - 28.8K (403) 456-4241 (1:342/14)

Ä [31] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 201 of 249
 From : James Walton                        1:129/260       .åò 21 .àp 96 07:45
 To   : Lis Carey
 Subj : Re: STARSHIP TROOPERS
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 > Juan Rico is Filipino. The book says explicitly his native
 > language is Tagalog. Spanish name, undoubtedly some Spanish
 > ancestry, but he's neither "Spanish" nor "African-American",
 > and wouldn't look like either very much.


I had to look closely at your name to recall who I was exchanging messages with.
:-)
I have been a _very_ long time since I read StarShip Troopers.  You are
obviously much more of an authority than I.

--- Opus-CBCS 1.73a
 * Origin: ConFluence '96:  Return to Mars! (1:129/260.0)

Ä [31] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 202 of 249
 From : Steve Thomas                        1:279/27        .åò 21 .àp 96 21:47
 To   : Debbie Ayres
 Subj : HOW DOES CATHERINE SURVIV
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 DA> If you ever run across the fan-fiction version of B&tB/QL crossover,
 DA> please post the source here... I would really like to read that.

I would too!  I wrote to Mark about this in this packet.  See what you
think about my Sam into Vincent scenario!

L8R!  QL&B&TB crossover!  I love it!

                                   --Steve


... "Ziggy, Gooshi!  Never mind, it's in my hand." -- Al

___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20 [NR]


--- PCBoard (R) v15.22/M 2
 * Origin: <<*> Blue Powder <*>> þ St. Albans, WV þ 304-727-6733 (1:279/27)

Ä [31] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 203 of 249
 From : Steve Thomas                        1:279/27        .åò 21 .àp 96 07:11
 To   : Mark Jones
 Subj : Catherine Returns
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 MJ> My final suggestion is that Sam Becket (QUANTUM LEAP) leaps in to
 MJ> change history so that Catherine does not, in fact, die as we saw in
 MJ> the original series.  This is my personal favorite approach.  It
 MJ> negates the entire third season *without* resorting to "Bobby steps
 MJ> out of the shower"-style clumsiness.  Yes, they're ignoring everything
 MJ> they showed up during the third season--but for a reason.  And that
 MJ> reason is part of the story.  [I personally enjoyed the third season,
 MJ> but I'm in a small minority in that regard.]

How about if Sam jumps into Vincent and stops the killers in time, loads
them up on the helicopter and they have an unfortunate, well, accident;
then Vincent (Sam) finds a loophole in the caverns and is propelled back
to the lab to be with his lady love!  Happily ever after for all!!!

I LOVE IT!!!!!

                                  --Steve

I can just see the look on Al's face when he sees Vincent!

... "Ziggy, Gooshi!  Never mind, it's in my hand." -- Al

___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20 [NR]



--- PCBoard (R) v15.22/M 2
 * Origin: <<*> Blue Powder <*>> þ St. Albans, WV þ 304-727-6733 (1:279/27)

Ä [31] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 204 of 249
 From : Steve Thomas                        1:279/27        .åò 21 .àp 96 07:11
 To   : Debbie Ayres
 Subj : HOW DOES CATHERINE SURVIV
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 DA> If you ever run across the fan-fiction version of B&tB/QL crossover,
 DA> please post the source here... I would really like to read that.

I would too!  I wrote to Mark about this in this packet.  See what you
think about my Sam into Vincent scenario!

L8R!  QL&B&TB crossover!  I love it!

                                   --Steve


... "Ziggy, Gooshi!  Never mind, it's in my hand." -- Al

___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20 [NR]


--- PCBoard (R) v15.22/M 2
 * Origin: <<*> Blue Powder <*>> þ St. Albans, WV þ 304-727-6733 (1:279/27)

Ä [31] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 205 of 249
 From : Steve Thomas                        1:279/27        .åò 21 .àp 96 21:47
 To   : Mark Jones
 Subj : Catherine Returns
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 MJ> My final suggestion is that Sam Becket (QUANTUM LEAP) leaps in to
 MJ> change history so that Catherine does not, in fact, die as we saw in
 MJ> the original series.  This is my personal favorite approach.  It
 MJ> negates the entire third season *without* resorting to "Bobby steps
 MJ> out of the shower"-style clumsiness.  Yes, they're ignoring everything
 MJ> they showed up during the third season--but for a reason.  And that
 MJ> reason is part of the story.  [I personally enjoyed the third season,
 MJ> but I'm in a small minority in that regard.]

How about if Sam jumps into Vincent and stops the killers in time, loads
them up on the helicopter and they have an unfortunate, well, accident;
then Vincent (Sam) finds a loophole in the caverns and is propelled back
to the lab to be with his lady love!  Happily ever after for all!!!

I LOVE IT!!!!!

                                  --Steve

I can just see the look on Al's face when he sees Vincent!

... "Ziggy, Gooshi!  Never mind, it's in my hand." -- Al

___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20 [NR]



--- PCBoard (R) v15.22/M 2
 * Origin: <<*> Blue Powder <*>> þ St. Albans, WV þ 304-727-6733 (1:279/27)

Ä [31] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 206 of 249
 From : Channon Lang                        1:130/809       .ÿò 22 .àp 96 04:47
 To   : Tony Trujillo
 Subj : Re: Sliders is BACK!
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE 1.11+
From a dark bottomless pit,Tony Trujillo screamed up to Channon Lang about
 Sliders is BACK!..

 TT> Hi!
 TT> I've been kind of inactive as far as echoes are concerned
 TT> but now I'm trying to get back into it. There hasn't been
 TT> very much on television (in the regards to SF) that has
 TT> really captured my attention...however I do here BABYLON
 TT> 5 is really starting to heat up. I just never became a fan
 TT> of the show....is it too late now? :^)

 Sorry it took ME so long to get back to you. That nasty little flu bug snuck
 up on me. Hit me so badly that I ended up having to send the little one to
 her grandfather's house for a day cuz I couldn't take care of her. Whew!

 CL> You know, I'm glad Sliders is back.

 TT> I really wasn't too impressed with the first show of the
 TT> "new season" but I did love the idea of meeting another
 TT> Slider in a universe that wasn't his own. I'd really like
 TT> to see them run across another group of "sliders" that want
 TT> to grab their (our sliders) timer because theirs was
 TT> destroyed which left them stranded in the same universe.

 You know, they've met other sliders before. What happened to the guy that
 slide with them from the last episode of the first season?

 CL> I really enjoyed the show previously, but I'm
 CL> disappointed that Strange Luck is gone.

 TT> I never saw a single episode of it...I must have not
 TT> been the only one...

 Too bad. You missed a good show.

 Channon


... *:  *:  *:  *:  My cat walks all over me  :*  :*  :*  :*
--- MachoEcho 0.5ñ
 * Origin: The State of Confusion * Arlington Tx * 817-274-1920 * (1:130/809)

Ä [31] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 207 of 249
 From : Brandon Wolgast                     1:363/281       .pä 20 .àp 96 12:43
 To   : Mark Jones
 Subj : 'bugs' In St: Generations
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE 1.2

MJ> MJ> Meanwhile, in the "real" world, the planet was destroyed, the
MJ> MJ> Enterprise and its crew were destroyed and everything we see in
MJ> MJ> ST:TNG from there on out is part of his fantasy....
MJ> TS>
MJ> TS> The only thing that destroys this line of reasoning is Worf's
MJ> TS> assignment to DS9.

MJ>   Not at all.  Worf is dead.  EVERYTHING happening in the Federation
MJ>is part of Picard's fantasy--we're seeing the Federation as Picard
MJ>thinks it exists.  Not as it really is....

I doubt that, Kirk could "feel" nothing could hurt him while in the
Nexus, I'm sure Picard could also, and when he fought Soran for a second
time (and anything in upcoming movies) I'm sure he will know it's real
just by the fact that it doesn't "feel" fake.  Kirk described it better
while jumping the ravine.  Also, if you say Picards, it might be Guinans
mind the entire show is taking place in.  And if it is Picard then ALL
scenes from now on must have Picard in them someplace, but that is not
true either.

***
 * OLX 2.1 * Backup not found: (A)bort (R)etry (P)anic

--- Use the FORCE!!!
 * Origin: Feduberator * STAR WARS Support * (407)381-2798 (1:363/281)

Ä [31] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 208 of 249
 From : The Raven                           1:363/309       .òp 19 .àp 96 11:21
 To   : Frank Glover
 Subj : 'bugs' in ST: Generations
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 "This just in from our Moscow bureau..."

 TR>  But instead of hitting the Bird of Prey as hard as possible and
 TR>  cracking the Klingon's shields like an eggshell, the Enterprise barely
 TR>  responds to the attack.
 TR>       I wanna know *why*...

 FG> I'm inclined to agree, but it wouldn't be the first time. Unless
 FG> there's been some major internal upgrades since Kirk's time, the E-D
 FG> should've had an easier time against the three BOP's in `Yesterday's
 FG> Enterprise' as well....

     Were those BoP's?  I thought they were larger ships...

     Jack Butler



... "Anything that begins badly ends worse." -- Pudder's Law
--- Blue Wave/DOS v2.20 [NR]
 * Origin: Forethought BBS -=- Orlando, FL -=- 407-679-6561 (1:363/309)

Ä [31] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 209 of 249
 From : The Raven                           1:363/309       .òp 19 .àp 96 11:23
 To   : Frank Glover
 Subj : Alien threats?
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 "This just in from our Moscow bureau..."

 FG> Some civilizations are nasty, and know it. Others percieve
 FG> themselves as doing good. The latter could be the worst ones....

     The ones to watch out for are going to be those alien civilizations to
whom the phrases "nasty" and "doing good" are non sequitors.  The ones we
cannot relate to because we are incapable of understanding.

     Jack Butler



... Fiscally conservative.  Socially liberal.
--- Blue Wave/DOS v2.20 [NR]
 * Origin: Forethought BBS -=- Orlando, FL -=- 407-679-6561 (1:363/309)

Ä [31] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 210 of 249
 From : The Raven                           1:363/309       .òp 19 .àp 96 11:56
 To   : Nicolai Shapero
 Subj : Nuclear
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 "This just in from our Moscow bureau..."

 NS>  Not likely; part of our human-ness is that we're tool users.  And a
 NS>  weapon is just another tool.

     There was a woman from PETA recently on local radio here in Orlando who
was decrying fishing and hunting because it was "unnatural".  Her reasoning
went along the lines of "you don't see bears using a fly rod to pull salmon
from streams".
     So I phoned her up and said "No, but you do see otters using rocks to
bust open clams, and chimpanzees using sticks to fish termites out of their
nests.  Now, your point was again?"
     She hemmed and hawed and ended up saying that people who were
"insensitive to pain felt by animals" would always find some cheap way (those
were her exact words) to justify their cruelty...

     Heh.

     Jack Butler



... Liberty means responsibility.  That is why most men dread it.
--- Blue Wave/DOS v2.20 [NR]
 * Origin: Forethought BBS -=- Orlando, FL -=- 407-679-6561 (1:363/309)

Ä [31] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 211 of 249
 From : The Raven                           1:363/309       .pä 20 .àp 96 14:15
 To   : Mark Jones
 Subj : Catherine Returns
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 "This just in from our Moscow bureau..."

     For the record, I enjoyed the third season too.


 MJ> What other options are there?

     1.  The "Exact Identical Duplicate" option:  Catherine isn't really
Catherine but is actually Jennifer the Meter Maid or something and only
*looks* like Catherine.
     2.  Time Travelling Vincent.

     These are the only two I can think of off the top of my head.

     Jack Butler



... "God is not a turtle.  God is a bus." -- Salvatore
--- Blue Wave/DOS v2.20 [NR]
 * Origin: Forethought BBS -=- Orlando, FL -=- 407-679-6561 (1:363/309)

Ä [31] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 212 of 249
 From : Brion Lienhart                      1:213/700.2     .åò 21 .àp 96 09:44
 To   : Todd Sullivan
 Subj : Trek Movie "bugs"
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On Mon Mar 18, Todd Sullivan said to Kim Wheat:

 KW>  And as a 23 yr sailor myself, loved how they could 'detect' the
 KW>  present of the 'intruders' and track um!!! <lol>

 -TS>No kidding.  As though they could tell by looking at the radar
 -TS>repeaters in CIC and tell the location of a power drain they
 -TS>shouldn't.  Not even the Engineers [I was an EM3....twice :^)] would
 -TS>have been able to do that.

I was an EM1SS (only once though) in a nuclear sub. I caused a few power drains
by using the coarse frequency adjust (output breaker) on the turbine generators,
but there isn't any "power drain" meter that I know of. There are meters that
tell you the level of activity in the core, but IIRC, they were just "capturing
stray photons" or some such nonsense, not causing the core to power up.



--- QM v1.31
 * Origin: Ministry of Peace - Carson City, NV (1:213/700.2)

Ä [31] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 213 of 249
 From : Brandon Wolgast                     1:363/281       .òp 19 .àp 96 13:30
 To   : Aaron Turon
 Subj : Star Trek
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE 1.2

AT>Who saw Voyager last wednesday? Wasn't that cool? CYA! ;)

No, like every other Voyager episode it was terrible.

***
 * OLX 2.1 * Backup not found: (A)bort (R)etry (P)anic

--- Use the FORCE!!!
 * Origin: Feduberator * STAR WARS Support * (407)381-2798 (1:363/281)

Ä [31] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 214 of 249
 From : Nicolai Shapero                     1:102/524       .åò 21 .àp 96 04:01
 To   : Rod Mammitzsch
 Subj : Sci fi
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Mar 18 15:14>, Rod Mammitzsch (1:2424/1313) wrote to Nicolai Shapero:

NS> Do not post ANYTHING here asking for money without prior approval
NS> from  yours truly.
 RM>        oops. sorry.  but I was just replying to the previous
 RM>message which by necessity must mention the club's membershp
 RM>dues.

If money is going to change hands, take it to netmail.

-- Nicolai Shapero, Moderator of the SFFAN echo

--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [31] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 215 of 249
 From : Nicolai Shapero                     1:102/524       .åò 21 .àp 96 04:02
 To   : CHARLES HOGAN
 Subj : New BBS in Town Win95
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Mar 18 12:05>, CHARLES HOGAN (1:379/37) wrote to ALL:

 CH>I am a newcomer to this board, and would like to take this
 CH>time to offer everyone here 30 day free access on my BBS here
 CH>in Charlotte...

This is not the "BBS ADS" conference.  This is the SFFAN conference.  Do not
post this type of message to this conference again.

Thank you for your cooperation,

-- Nicolai Shapero, Moderator of the SFFAN echo

--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [31] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 216 of 249
 From : Henry Triplett                      1:106/564       .ÿò 22 .àp 96 10:30
 To   : BRANDON WOLGAST
 Subj : Star Trek
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 * Reply to msg originally in FIDO-SFF

-=> Quoting Brandon Wolgast to Aaron Turon <=-

 AT>Who saw Voyager last wednesday? Wasn't that cool? CYA! ;)
 BW>
 BW> No, like every other Voyager episode it was terrible.

Now, now.  Voyager has had a handful...er...ah...

Well, they're working on filling one had with decent episodes.  I think
the actual count is around two or three.  (If the above was a Kazon ep.,
then it wasn't among the two or three!)

Trouble is, for every decent one, there have been 15 or more that reeked
so bad that Pepe LePew wouldn't get near them.

... Come see the Paris-Janeway kids perform for you at Seaworld!

___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20 [NR]
--- GEcho 1.00
 * Origin: Eat Flaming Death    Houston Texas    713-447-1927 (1:106/564)

Ä [31] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 217 of 249
 From : Angela Smith                        1:109/611       .ÿò 22 .àp 96 13:20
 To   : James Walton
 Subj : Re: National SF Clubs
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
In a Message to Angela Smith <03-20-96 04:38> James Walton Wrote:

 JW> .MSGID: 1:129/260 2b05cea2 .REPLY: 1:129/260.0 14768ea0
 JW>   AS> I belong to one of the "national" clubs myself nota local
 JW> one...Who is
 JW>   AS> Michael Swanwick ?? I usually read the Star Wars series, Jack
 JW> Chalker,
 JW>   AS> <when I can get thru a whole series>, some Star Trek, thanks to
 JW> my
 JW>   AS> aunt, and Anne McCaffrey of course...What do you do at your
 JW>   AS> conventions???

 JW> Time to show the good people in this echo how uninformed I really am.

you don't like Anne McCaffrey?? <gasp> Anyway it's one of those clubs where
they send you free books then you pay for 3 more over the course of your
membership then you cancel...kinda like ColumbiaHouse...But the conventions
sound interesting..A chance to meet Jack Chalker...<head bowed>

.NOTE: IceEdit 1.60 E17688
--- QuickBBS 2.80 GoldBase (Zeta-1)
 * Origin: AD Message BBS/10th Year Online! (703)241-1826 (1:109/611@FIDONET)

Ä [31] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 218 of 249
 From : Marco Catalano                      2:2802/152.3    .îí 18 .àp 96 12:20
 To   : Ecarey
 Subj : HELP!
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Hello Ecarey!


Tuesday March 12 1996, Ecarey writes to Marco Catalano:

 >> Erm, just one (probaly stupid) question about this.
 >> How could mankind have survived?
 >> I mean, when _EVERYBODY_ is gay or lesbian how are baby's born?
 >> It does sounds like a rather interesting book however.

 E> There are a number of possibilities, but in this particular book, THE
 E> FOREVER WAR, the eventual solution is that everyone is cloned.

So everybody looks alike in this book?
Hmmm, I for one hope that it doesn't come to that, Ecary.
I believe this is the first time we ever wrote eachother.

Nice to finaly "meet" you, so to say! :-)


Greetings from Marco
BYE!



... "What?!? This isn't the Files section?!?"

--- FMail/386 1.02
 * Origin: Zeta Reticuli. There's life, Jim! But not as... (2:2802/152.3)

Ä [31] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 219 of 249
 From : Marco Catalano                      2:2802/152.3    .îí 18 .àp 96 12:24
 To   : Frank Glover
 Subj : Where's Newt?
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Hello Frank!


Wednesday March 13 1996, Frank Glover writes to All:


 FG>    (No, not THAT Newt!)

What others are there? :)

 FG>    Does anyone know what became of the young actress Carrie Henn, who
 FG> played Rebecca `Newt' Jordan in `Aliens?' I don't think I've seen her in
 FG> anything else....

She wasn't the dead girl in Alien 3. You know, when the docter performed autopsy
on her after she drowned in her cryotube.
I'll bet we won't recognize her when she is to play in a movie now, Frank.
Big girl grow up, just look at Drew "Gertie" Barrymore !



Greetings from Marco
BYE!



... MONEY TALKS ...   but all mine ever says is GOODBYE!

--- FMail/386 1.02
 * Origin: Capelle a/d IJssel, The Netherlands (2:2802/152.3)

Ä [31] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 220 of 249
 From : Keith Stokes                        1:280/5         .ÿò 22 .àp 96 21:32
 To   : Nicolai Shapero
 Subj : Starship Troopers
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE/2 1.2

NS>Well, if they wrote the script for it, Zim could have a
NS>pretty big part.  Actually, the only "starring" role would be
NS>Rico, if they kept really close to the book.  But if they
NS>kept totally faithful to the book, it wouldn't make all that
NS>great a movie (IMNSHO).

A movie would include mostly the action, not the politics. The
Zim and Rico roles would be the only two "starring" roles.

   Keith
 * Origin: Infinity (1:280/5)

Ä [31] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 221 of 249
 From : Keith Stokes                        1:280/5         .ÿò 22 .àp 96 21:36
 To   : Lis Carey
 Subj : STARSHIP TROOPERS
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE/2 1.2
* In a message originally to James Walton, Lis Carey said:

LC>Juan Rico is Filipino. The book says explicitly his native
LC>language is Tagalog. Spanish name, undoubtedly some Spanish
LC>ancestry, but he's neither "Spanish" nor "African-American",
LC>and wouldn't look like either very much.

Hi Liz!     This subject comes up so often that the Internet has a
FAQ(Frequently Asked Questions) answer for it.

BTW:  Your right. <G>

  Keith
 * Origin: Infinity (1:280/5)

Ä [31] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 222 of 249
 From : Owen E. Oulton                      1:243/45        .ÿò 22 .àp 96 15:11
 To   : The Raven
 Subj : 'bugs' in ST: Generations
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 TR>  But instead of hitting the Bird of Prey as hard as possible and
 TR>  cracking the Klingon's shields like an eggshell, the Enterprise barely
 TR>  responds to the attack.
 TR>       I wanna know *why*...
 TR>
 FG> I'm inclined to agree, but it wouldn't be the first time. Unless
 FG> there's been some major internal upgrades since Kirk's time, the E-D
 FG> should've had an easier time against the three BOP's in `Yesterday's
 FG> Enterprise' as well....

 TR>      Were those BoP's?  I thought they were larger ships...

 TR>      Jack Butler

They were.  There are two Classes of ship which are externally similar (read:
they use the same model for both):  The B'Rel Class Scout, and the K'Vort Class
Battlecruiser.  Both can be seen in That Way Of The Warrior.  The ships in
Yesterday's Enterprise were K'Vorts, while the ship the Duras Sisters used in
Generations was a B'Rel.

CFN, O

--- Maximus 2.01wb
 * Origin: Pandora's Box, Ottawa, Ont. 613-829-1209 (1:243/45)

Ä [31] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 223 of 249
 From : Todd Sullivan                       1:202/720.3     .åò 21 .àp 96 18:09
 To   : Keith Stokes
 Subj : Starship Troopers
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
In a message of 19 Mar 96 Keith Stokes wrote to JOHN ROSS:

 KS> * In a message originally to BRION LIENHART, JOHN ROSS said:

 JR>> Didn't Sgt Zim star in the chapter as the Senior NCO in the
 JR>> part where
 JR>> the main Character is a 3rd LT and they are digging out bugs?
 KS>
 KS> But, you're discusion is about the movie. It may have no connection
 KS> with the book.

If you wihs to be sure, ask Virginia Heinlein--via the publisher.  She has legal
rights to all her late husband's work; it has to be faithful in some way,
otherwise /The/ /Puppet/ /Masters/ would have never been released.

Todd Sullivan

... Rule of Aquisition #10:  Sleep can interfere .... [cut off]

-*- ASTG 1.9

--- Spot 1.3a Unregistered
 * Origin: Todd's Spot in the Continuum (1:202/720.3)

Ä [31] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 224 of 249
 From : Kay Shapero                         1:102/524       .ÿò 22 .àp 96 09:20
 To   : Bill Clements
 Subj : WRITERS
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Mar 20 19:24>, Bill Clements (1:18/230) wrote to Kay Shapero:

 KS> Piper "touch" though.  And the stuff they wrote AFTER GKW wasn't very
 BC>                                    ^^^^^
 BC>Stuff? STUFF! What stuff ... I wasn't aware of any stuff ...
 BC>
 BC>Seriously, I wasn't aware of anything beyond GKW. If you, or
 BC>someone, will supply me with the titles I will read them and
 BC>judge them for myself. Given, of course, that I can find them.

Sorry - somewhere in the neighborhood of 5 years back they had a couple of short
stories in an anthology of which I forget the title though it was military
related (yeah, big help that).  My suspicion is that these were the germs of
another novel that they couldn't sell, so released in fragments.  If I come
across them I'll let you know (may even mail you the anthology if I own it - all
I do recall about it was that it was pretty lackluster)

--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [31] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 225 of 249
 From : Paul Manson                         1:229/15        .åò 21 .àp 96 11:58
 To   : Robert Lidgren
 Subj : NOWHERE MAN
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
*** On some fine day namely 03-20-96, ROBERT LIDGREN
*** was overheard confiding to ALL something
*** about "NOWHERE MAN".

-> material to share with anyone who cares to receive it.  Once gain, I'd prefe
-> sending it along via e-mail than here simply because I respect Nicolai

pmanson@inforamp.net

thanks

paul

Live Long and Prosper, Peace and Long Life

Paul S. Manson Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Internet: pmanson@inforamp.net

EchoVOY:TheI'mNotJustADoctorZimmermanResponseProgramTerminator.

 * 1st 2.00 #815 * Paris, she's only a hologram - Kim

--- QScan/PCB v1.17b / 01-0348
 * Origin: FidoNet: CRS Online, Toronto, Ontario (1:229/15)

Ä [31] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 226 of 249
 From : Lis Carey                           1:101/230       .pä 20 .àp 96 12:44
 To   : Owen E. Oulton
 Subj : STARSHIP TROOPERS
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 > -> little resemble the book. The lack of female Mobile Infantry
 > -> troopers is sure to be noticed. History and Moral Philosophy,
 > -> fully 10% of the written copy, is far from being politically
 >
 >DJ> Interesting issue.  Military service is required for the vote.  If women
 >DJ> are barred from combat duty then either they don't have the vote, or
 >DJ> have the vote without having to take the risks that the other half do.
 >
 OEO> Government service is required for the vote.  Military service,
 > IIRC, does get you the vote quicker, but non-military servive will
 > get you there as well.

Besides, there's plenty of women in Heinlein's ST military - they just aren't
Mobile Infantry. The navy in ST is mostly female.

/s/ Ecarey

--- FLAME v1.0
 * Origin: Withouta Net - Drop In Anytime! - 617/846-5416 (1:101/230)

Ä [31] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 227 of 249
 From : Robert Parson                       1:3822/1        .ÿò 22 .àp 96 15:38
 To   : Lawrence E Dunlap
 Subj : RE: WEIRD TV
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
LAWRENCE had a few words to say about Re: WEIRD TV

 LED>    Does anybody remember a cartoon TV series where a undersea colony is
 LED> so far below the ocean the crew would need to depressurize for several
 LED> days to return to the surface? It aired on NBC sometime between 1970
 LED> and 1980 on Saturday mornings.

How does Sealab 2020 sound?  I'm not sure if we're talking about the same
show or not.  I've been waiting for it to turn up on Cartoon Network.  But
all I ever see is Scooby Doo.  By the way, I found out not too long ago that
there are 310 episodes of Scooby Doo in various incarnations (including "Pup
Named Scooby Doo").



 * Silver Xpress V4.3 SW23473

--- QScan/PCB v1.19b / 01-0162
 * Origin: Jackalope Junction 501-785-5381 Ft Smith AR (1:3822/1)

Ä [31] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 228 of 249
 From : Chris Carter                        1:105/290.23    .óá 23 .àp 96 04:38
 To   : Nicolai Shapero
 Subj : Nuclear
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On (20 Mar 96) Nicolai Shapero wrote to JOHN ROSS...

 NS> I have put on a muzzle, and then been able to see my chest.  And
 NS> without bending my neck, I can't see something I'm working on next
 NS> to my chest without the muzzle.

We're getting into a weird area here.

Chris - carter@teleport.com


... "Every day the same thing.  Variety."

--- PPoint 2.00
 * Origin: Grid Epsilon Coords. 105x290x23 (1:105/290.23)

Ä [31] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 229 of 249
 From : Chris Carter                        1:105/290.23    .óá 23 .àp 96 04:40
 To   : The Raven
 Subj : Catherine Returns
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On (20 Mar 96) The Raven wrote to Mark Jones...

 MJ> What other options are there?

 TR> 1.  The "Exact Identical Duplicate" option:  Catherine isn't
 TR> really Catherine but is actually Jennifer the Meter Maid or
 TR> something and only *looks* like Catherine.

 TR> 2.  Time Travelling Vincent.

I'm surprised no one has thought of the idea I thought was really
obvious.

A Terminator is sent from the future to save Catherine, by killing
Vincent before they meet for the first time.

Chris - carter@teleport.com


... "Oh, knock it off!  How jolly can you get??"

--- PPoint 2.00
 * Origin: Grid Epsilon Coords. 105x290x23 (1:105/290.23)

Ä [31] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 230 of 249
 From : Frank Glover                        1:2613/477      .åò 21 .àp 96 20:57
 To   : Tommy Kellerman
 Subj : Re: Alien 4
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

TK>  Does somebody know anything about Alien 4?
TK>
TK>  Please share...

  Only rumor I've heard: It involves a clone of Ripley, and something goes
*horribly* wrong....

   And `Ressurection' may bepartof the title. (Which pre-empted it away from
Paramount, which had planned to use it in the title of the next Star Trek film.
Of course, there was a minor conflict when `ST II: The Revenge of Khan.' and
`The Revenge of the Jedi' were to comeout thesame year. In the end, neither film
used that word....)

   Frank


--- QuickBBS 2.80 GoldBase (Zeta-1)
 * Origin: The Matrix Data Bank BBS, Rochester, Ny (1:2613/477)

Ä [31] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 231 of 249
 From : Frank Glover                        1:2613/477      .óá 23 .àp 96 01:12
 To   : The Raven
 Subj : Re: Alien threats?
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

TR>   FG> Some civilizations are nasty, and know it. Others percieve
TR>   FG> themselves as doing good. The latter could be the worst ones....
TR>
TR>
TR>       The ones to watch out for are going to be those alien
TR>  civilizations to
TR>  whom the phrases "nasty" and "doing good" are non sequitors.  The
TR>  ones we
TR>  cannot relate to because we are incapable of understanding.
TR>
TR>       Jack Butler

   Agreed. Espically if concepts like `negotiate' or `surrender' (us *or* them!)
have no meaning to them either....

   Frank


--- QuickBBS 2.80 GoldBase (Zeta-1)
 * Origin: The Matrix Data Bank BBS, Rochester, Ny (1:2613/477)

Ä [31] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 232 of 249
 From : Frank Glover                        1:2613/477      .óá 23 .àp 96 01:33
 To   : Denis Lamy
 Subj : Re: Generations Big Mistake
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

DL>  First bug that appear in it is the fact that you only have to cross
DL>  the nexus
DL>  to be in it. Why did Soran had to move the path of the nexus to cross
DL>  a
DL>  planet, he only had to fly through it with a shuttle. Or do you need
DL>  to use a
DL>  starship for that (Kirk first death).

   Though he never explained just why, Soran explicitly said that it couldn't be
done, when Picard said there must be someother way to get him to the Nexus.

   And I still say that if we're going to argue that all post-Nexus Star Trek
must be a Picard fantasy, then why not look even farther back? Could everything
be *Kirk's* fantasy, from the moment he was blown off the Enterprise-B? Or
Soran's fantasy from themoment he *first* went into the Nexus? (Though in either
case you have to say that their fantasies end in their own deaths...)

   Me, I'll take it at face value, and accept that Kirk and Picard really left
the Nexus. After all, the Nexus gives you what you want, and leaving's what they
finally wanted....

   (But anyone who likes this kind of confusion, I reccommend you see the movie
`Jacob's Ladder.')

   Frank


--- QuickBBS 2.80 GoldBase (Zeta-1)
 * Origin: The Matrix Data Bank BBS, Rochester, Ny (1:2613/477)

Ä [31] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 233 of 249
 From : Bill Clements                       1:18/230        .ÿò 22 .àp 96 17:44
 To   : Frank Glover
 Subj : STARSHIP TROOPERS
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
From the desk of a cynical old man...

On (18 Mar 96) FRANK GLOVER wrote to BILL CLEMENTS...

 FG>    I wonder how well `The Forever War' would survive such a film
 FG> translation? Haldeman already had most of the `PC' elements in place,
 FG> including women in the Infantry. *Properly* handeled, it could come
 FG> off as well as the Marines in `Aliens,' I would think.

 FG>    Except homosexuality as the normal state of the world will stick in
 FG> the throats of some people....

 FG>     I suppose ( admittedly oversymplyfing here ) conservatives might
 FG> like Starship Troopers, and dislike The Forever War....

There is, I believe, a major story element that will be beyond
the scope of the average viewing public. RELATIVITY:

--------------------- BEGIN HALDEMAN QUOTE ----------------------
"This is the first manifestation of a very important effect that
has heretofore been of interest only to the theorists. Tell me,
soldier," he pointed to Negulesco. How long has it been since we
first fought the Taurans, at Aleph?"

"That depends on your frame of reference," she answered
dutifully. "To me, it's been about eight months, Commodore."

"Exactly. You've lost about nine years, though, to time dilation,
while we maneuvered between collapsar jumps. In engineering
sense, as we haven't done any important research and development
during that period, . . . the enemy vessel comes from our
future!" He stopped to let that sink in.

"As the war progresses, this can only become more and more
pronounced. The Taurans don't have any cure for relativity,
though, so it will be to our benefit as often as it is to theirs.
---------------------- END HALDEMAN QUOTE -----------------------

Somehow I don't believe that the story, of a man who through
relativistic time travel survives a war lasting 1143 years to
end up in a homosexual/lesbian culture of over 10 billion
individuals with but one consciousness cloned from one of the
KIA's in his company, will appeal to the viewing public.

As far as a liberal/conservative comparison of "THE FOREVER WAR"
to "STARSHIP TROOPERS" is concerned, this Kirkus review says it
all.

---------------------- BEGIN KIRKUS QUOTE -----------------------
"THIS WAR IS THE OPPOSITE OF THE ONE HEINLEIN GLORIFIED IN
STARSHIP TROOPERS--BLOODY, CRUEL AND MEANINGLESS. A SPLENDID
THOUGHTFUL ADVENTURE!"
----------------------- END KIRKUS QUOTE ------------------------

All quotes, including Kirkus, are from "THE FOREVER WAR"
(C)opyright 1974 by Joe W. Haldeman ISBN: 0-345-28914-5

--RWC

"Money is truthful. If a man speaks of his honor, make him pay cash." --LL
... LazarusTags

--- PPoint 2.00 / QWK

--- FLAME v1.1
 * Origin: ANCESTRY TBBS Shadows of forgotten ancestors 941-382-9061 (1:18/230)

Ä [31] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 234 of 249
 From : Frank Glover                        1:2613/477      .óá 23 .àp 96 17:43
 To   : Marco Catalano
 Subj : Re: Where's Newt?
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

MC>  She wasn't the dead girl in Alien 3. You know, when the docter
MC>  performed autopsy on her after she drowned in her cryotube.

   Right, I know.

MC>  I'll bet we won't recognize her when she is to play in a movie now,
MC>  Frank.
MC>  Big girl grow up, just look at Drew "Gertie" Barrymore !

   I look ather as much as I possibly can.....

   But you're right. I don't think I saw (female actress whose name I know I'll
remember two minutes after I post this) between `Labryinth' and `The Rocketeer.'
She was a pretty young lady before, but God knows she got even better looking
later!

   Then there's Clint Howard  who was a cute kid (`Gentle Ben' and original Trek
episode `The Corbomite Maneuver'), but unlike his brother, lost something along
the way. (see him in bit and supporting parts in any of his brother's movies)

   Frank


--- QuickBBS 2.80 GoldBase (Zeta-1)
 * Origin: The Matrix Data Bank BBS, Rochester, Ny (1:2613/477)

Ä [31] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 235 of 249
 From : Earl Green                          1:3822/1        .óá 23 .àp 96 09:32
 To   : All
 Subj : Hyper?  NOT!
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
I got up unusually early this morning due to a phone call from some
lawyer or other who claimed my phone number was on his beeper.  After
explaining to him that I didn't put it there, I got up to muddle around
a bit and happened across something on TV called "Hypernauts."
   Hmmmmm.
   This is the show I've heard about which is produced by a lot of
Babylon 5 alumni, including the Toaster graphics.  It also looks like
the makeup is done by Optic Nerve of B5 fame too.
   Not sure about the show itself, but the graphics were astonishing for
the most part.  My only qualm with the graphics and effects was the
clumsy, poorly-done compositing of live actors into the scenery; it
looked, for all intents and purposes, like they were standing in front
of a big flat painting.
   Not sure if I'm going to become a regular viewer of Saturday morning
fare, but it was sure interesting to look at.  And there appeared to be
some manner of space chihuahua, too.
       e  <-- Earl Green (earl.green@3822-1.mx1.fidonet.org)  1:3822/1
            Graphics/animation artist, KPBI Fox 46/15 & KFDF UPN 32/36
                           and third singing fiddygibber from the left
---
 * SLMR 2.0 * On B5, it doesn't take 28 years for two captains to meet.

--- QScan/PCB v1.19b / 01-0162
 * Origin: Jackalope Junction 501-785-5381 Ft Smith AR (1:3822/1)

Ä [31] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 236 of 249
 From : Lawrence E Dunlap                   1:106/2927      .ÿò 22 .àp 96 23:13
 To   : Nicolai Shapero
 Subj : Starship Troopers
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

NS>.25>, David Johnston (1:342/14) wrote to Bill Clements:

NS>In Starship Troopers, women weren't barred from serving (they appear to  have
NS>made up the majority of the Navy's pilots, for one thing, IIRC).  They  just
NS>weren't ground pounders, by and large.

NS>-- Nicolai Shapero, the Mad Russian Sysop of StormGate Aerie

NS> Origin:(1:102/524)

   There have been variable findings of studies of women in 20th
Century Terran combat. Some studies have recommended admitting women to
combat. Others recommend waiting for a major combat environment to test
the performance of women in battle.

   Nevertheless, a operational dynamic is invovled in the M.I. in
_Starship Troopers_ where power armor is used to upgrade the fighting
ability and natural physical skills of the infantry involved.

   To justify the technology, decisive and effective offensive
operations would be necessary by hypermobile, hyperstrong soldiers who
move at nearly 75 miles/hour (@ 120 km/hour) on the ground and can jump
about 0.6 miles into the air (1 km) across horizontal distances ranging
from fractions of a mile or kilometer to several miles or kilometers
would be critical to victory in combat.

   Additionally, Heinlein also possibly respected the sensitive
publishing executives of 1958 by casting men in combat roles in
_Troopers_. Heinlein, knowing in 1958 there might not be any studies
of womem in combat before _Troopers_ would be filmed might have had
honest literary doubts about portraying female Mi as able to integrate
sensory imput *only in power suits* to carry out lighting strike
offensive charges. (Please remember the novel is set in the mid-22nd
Century, and that females are trooper shuttle and starship pilots in _Troopers_)

   Last Heinlein was a genteel Missourian who might have privately felt
women could fight in wars but knew publicizing that opinion during the
Cold War might have ended his science-fiction writing career.

   I think the most controversial element that is likely to be
rewritten or treated differently in 1996 terms is the political theory
of _Starship Trooper_ Terran Federation Government.

   In light of the turmoil the Cold War caused in the voting public,
Heinlein evidently rethought the wisdom of popular election by an very
wide electorate "less than soundly" educated--in RAH's private opinion
in 1958--population of that day.

   Good job Heinlein isn't around to witness the 1990's! Witnessing out
times would have literally killed him.

Lawrence E Dunlap
(1:106/2927)
Internet E-mail "PostOakLED@AOL.COM"


___
* UniQWK #5136* May your blind date have Ferengi ears and a Klingon forehead!

--- Alexi/Mail 2.02b (#10000)
 * Origin: Computer Living F'n BBS-Houston, TX 713-444-2927 (1:106/2927)

Ä [31] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 237 of 249
 From : Todd Sullivan                       1:202/720.3     .ÿò 22 .àp 96 18:41
 To   : Lawrence E Dunlap
 Subj : weird tv
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
In a message of 18 Mar 96 Lawrence E Dunlap wrote to Gerry Normandeau:

 LED>
 LED>    Does anybody remember a cartoon TV series where a undersea colony
 LED> is
 LED> so far below the ocean the crew would need to depressurize for several
 LED> days to return to the surface? It aired on NBC sometime between 1970
 LED> and
 LED> 1980 on Saturday mornings. Yes, it wasn't very imaginative or weird,
 LED> it
 LED> was unusual in some respects because ordinary crises were part of the
 LED> drama of the show.
 LED>
 LED>    This came during a experimental cycle in Network cartoon TV where
 LED> the programmers avoided using villans or combat to introduce drama and
 LED> it lasted only one or two years. Believe it or not, this was prior to
 LED> Congressional threats to institute intense, constricting regulation of
 LED> children's TV

I remember it:  SEALAB 2020.  The first hint of the eco-correctness that was to
follow, before Love Canal hit the headlines.

Todd Sullivan

... Can you do the Picard Maneuver in a Grand Am?

-*- ASTG 1.9

--- Spot 1.3a Unregistered
 * Origin: Todd's Spot in the Continuum (1:202/720.3)

Ä [31] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 238 of 249
 From : Todd Sullivan                       1:202/720.3     .ÿò 22 .àp 96 18:48
 To   : The Raven
 Subj : Nuclear
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
In a message of 19 Mar 96 The Raven wrote to Nicolai Shapero:

 TR>      So I phoned her up and said "No, but you do see otters using rocks
 TR> to
 TR> bust open clams, and chimpanzees using sticks to fish termites out of
 TR> their
 TR> nests.  Now, your point was again?"
 TR>      She hemmed and hawed and ended up saying that people who were
 TR> "insensitive to pain felt by animals" would always find some cheap way
 TR> (those were her exact words) to justify their cruelty...

 TR>      Heh.

Just another idiot that thinks animals do things for the same reasons we do.
Humanizing anything non-human implies a higher standard (to them).  To me, it's
a sign of illogical romanticism gone haywire.

Todd Sullivan

... "Are we to mark this day with a white or black stone?" --Cervantes

-*- ASTG 1.9

--- Spot 1.3a Unregistered
 * Origin: Todd's Spot in the Continuum (1:202/720.3)

Ä [31] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 239 of 249
 From : Todd Sullivan                       1:202/720.3     .ÿò 22 .àp 96 18:50
 To   : Brion Lienhart
 Subj : Trek Movie "bugs"
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
In a message of 21 Mar 96 Brion Lienhart wrote to me:

 BL> power drains by using the coarse frequency adjust (output breaker) on
 BL> the turbine generators, but there isn't any "power drain" meter that I
 BL> know of. There are meters that tell you the level of activity in the
 BL> core, but IIRC, they were just "capturing stray photons" or some such
 BL> nonsense, not causing the core to power up.
 BL>

Or down, sideways, etc.

Just another long reach for a bit of useless and insipid drama.

Todd Sullivan

... "Illuminate the opposition!" --Adam Weishaupt, Grand Primus Illuminatis

-*- ASTG 1.9

--- Spot 1.3a Unregistered
 * Origin: Todd's Spot in the Continuum (1:202/720.3)

Ä [31] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 240 of 249
 From : Peter Tam                           1:259/536       .óá 23 .àp 96 17:11
 To   : Tommy Kellerman
 Subj : Alien 4
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 TK> Does somebody know anything about Alien 4?

Script by Joss Whedon..who did uncredited work on "Speed" and "Waterworld"
Ripley is revived through cloning!?  Winona Ryder RUMOURED costar.  Nuthin' more
than that...oh yeah a wonky title "Alien Resurrection"...feh


--- Maximus 2.01wb
 * Origin: USS Proxima = Toronto, Canada (416)265-3867 (1:259/536)

Ä [31] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 241 of 249
 From : Star Hawk                           1:362/708.6     .óá 23 .àp 96 02:26
 To   : Denis Lamy
 Subj : Generations Big Mistake
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
From my perch I saw this come out of the gravity well from Denis Lamy:

  [> Denis Lamy [> First bug that appear in it is the fact that you only
  [> have to cross the nexus to be in it. Why did Soran had to move the
  [> path of the nexus to cross a planet, he only had to fly through it
  [> with a shuttle. Or do you need to use a starship for that (Kirk
  [> first death).

     Not a mistake.  It's stated in the film that the energies of the Nexus are
very damaging to spacecraft... and it does you no good if the ship blows up and
kills you before you can cross over.

                                        Star Hawk, the EchoTrickster

--- MacWoof Eval:23Dec93
 * Origin: William Bull Hedrick @ Hawk Haven's Orbital Point (1:362/708.6)

Ä [31] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 242 of 249
 From : Jon Helis                           1:3800/25       .óá 23 .àp 96 18:11
 To   : Charles Daniels
 Subj : Re: QUARK!
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 -=> Quoting Charles Daniels to Sarah Hargreaves <=-

 > I was having a discussion about it the other day with some workmates,
 > and we couldn't remember all the character names.. Quark (of course), Gene
 > and Gene.. but thats all we could come up with (slack huh?).. can someone
 > out there come to my rescue of sleepness nights of trying to remember the
 > character names?

 CD> There was the half-plant half-woman officer named Phicus I believe.
 CD> Is there anywhere I can get this series on tape???

It aired during a tribute to science fiction on the Comedy
Central cable network around a year ago.  Unfortunately, I
didn't bother taping it.  As for commercial availability,
unknown.





... We secretly replaced the BIOS with AmigaDos 3.1...
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

--- PCBoard (R) v15.22/M 10
 * Origin: * DataCom BBS - Baton Rouge, La. -  (504)275-2605 - @dcbbs.com *
(1:3800/25)

Ä [31] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 243 of 249
 From : Jon Helis                           1:3800/25       .óá 23 .àp 96 18:13
 To   : Charles Daniels
 Subj : Re: Red Dwarf
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 -=> Quoting Charles Daniels to All <=-

 CD> I just wanted to see if there were any fellow Red Dwarf fans posting
 CD> here. I have been a regular on alt.tv.red-dwarf for about 5 years now,
 CD> and have built a collection of Red Dwarf vids, books, junk, and
 CD> collectiables that would scare any other fan.   I run Deep Thought BBS
 CD> at (916) 452-9501 which holds the start of an interactive Hitchhiker's
 CD> Guide and over 20MB of RD files.   I'm just waiting for series 7 and\or
 CD> the Third Smeg Ups reel!

I'm a Red Dwarf fan myself.  I haven't seen as much of the
series as I'l like to have, mainly because of moving from one
city to another.  Here in Baton Rouge, LA, The show started
airing again from the very beginning, hopefully they'll air all
of them.  Great series.

Hithhiker's guide is also a great series.  I really enjoyed the
books alot.




... A feature is a bug with seniority.
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

--- PCBoard (R) v15.22/M 10
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(1:3800/25)

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 Msg  : 244 of 249
 From : Mark Jones                          1:105/302.47    .îí 18 .àp 96 16:23
 To   : David Johnston
 Subj : Starship Troopers
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On (17 Mar 96) David Johnston wrote to Bill Clements...

 DJ> -> little resemble the book. The lack of female Mobile Infantry
 DJ> -> troopers is sure to be noticed. History and Moral Philosophy,
 DJ> -> fully 10% of the written copy, is far from being politically
 DJ>
 DJ> Interesting issue. Military service is required for the vote. If
 DJ> women are barred from combat duty then either they don't have the
 DJ> vote, or have the vote without having to take the risks that the
 DJ> other half do.

   No, women aren't in the M.I.  On the other hand, men virtually
never get positions as starship pilots (but the women do).  Both jobs
are dangerous.  In fact, in the culture described in Starship
Troopers, the military goes out of its way to make sure EVERY military
position is dangerous (even if it consists of being a test subject for
medical experiments because you have no aptitude for *anything*--but
you have a legal right to undergo military service to earn your right
to vote.)
   Any job which *isn't* dangerous and which can be done by a civilian
*is* done by a civilian.  ALL the M.I.'s fight, from the commander to
the cook and the chaplain.


--- PPoint 1.78
 * Origin: Folcroft Sanitarium (hsmith@cure.com) (1:105/302.47)

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 Msg  : 245 of 249
 From : Mark Jones                          1:105/302.47    .îí 18 .àp 96 16:28
 To   : Tony Trujillo
 Subj : Sliders is BACK!
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On (14 Mar 96) Tony Trujillo wrote to Wes Yahola...

 TT> Speaking of Harry, I've never read any of his books. The only book
 TT> I attempted to read by him was called THE CASE OF THE TOXIC SPELL
 TT> DUMP...which I in fact dumped about 40 pages into it. Are there some
 TT> other books (I do know if GUNS OF THE SOUTH) that I should really
 TT> check out?

   I couldn't read TOXIC SPELL DUMP either.  I got farther than you
did, but not by much.
   I'd recommend NONINTERFERENCE--its probably my favorite of his
novels.  It's about a Federation Survey Ship which encounters a
primitive culture while exploring.  One crewman violates the
Noninterference Directive (sounds familiar, doesn't it?) and promptly
gets cashiered in disgrace.  But the deed is done.
   Centuries later, the region is re-surveyed, and the ramifications
of his actions are...astounding.  The Survey Service bigwigs try very
hard to cover up this embarrassment lest they get their funding cut by
Federation representatives who don't like the Service anyhow.  Lots of
intrigue, backstabbing and murder ensue.

   GUNS OF THE SOUTH is also very good.  And his WORLDWAR series (two
paperback, the third in hardback currently) are also worth reading.


--- PPoint 1.78
 * Origin: Folcroft Sanitarium (hsmith@cure.com) (1:105/302.47)

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 Msg  : 246 of 249
 From : Mark Jones                          1:105/302.47    .îí 18 .àp 96 16:34
 To   : Kay Shapero
 Subj : How does Catherine survive into new B&B miniseries??
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On (15 Mar 96) Kay Shapero wrote to Mark Jones...

 KS> Frankly, I've always assumed everything that happened after the
 KS> first hour of that big final double episode was bogus. Not at all
 KS> appropriate to a fairy tale. Instead the second half should have
 KS> consisted of both parties finally figuring out what they really
 KS> wanted, making the necessary adjustments in their lives, and then
 KS> getting married. BIG wedding scene in the tunnel, groom and bride
 KS> kiss, fade out to "And they lived happily ever after". End of
 KS> story.

   That would have worked...if they'd ended the series.  Which,
admittedly, many fans might have preferred to what they did.
   But I think that given the realities they were faced with, the
producers and writers did a good job.
   Linda Hamilton was leaving the series.  So they had to a) end the
series, b) kill her off, or c) have her "leave" in some fashion
without dying.
   Option A probably wasn't seriously considered.
   Option C was untenable--if the characters were so desperately in
love, I can't imagine anything that could realistically separate them
*except* death.  And if something had, the show would have to revolve
around their endless attempts to get back together.  Would the fans
have accepted it if Vincent had shrugged and gone on with his life
(and other adventures) while Catherine was missing or in jail or
living in LA making more money with L.A. LAW firm?  I think not.
   Which left killing her off.
   And yes, frankly, I was annoyed by the ignominious way in which she
died.  But having her character die was the only real choice, I think.
   And I liked the third-season storyline.  I especially enjoyed the
actor who played Gabriel.  And I liked the lady detective.  The
writing was good (especially in that the characters were *thinking*--
which makes up for a lot in my book).


--- PPoint 1.78
 * Origin: Folcroft Sanitarium (hsmith@cure.com) (1:105/302.47)

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 Msg  : 247 of 249
 From : Mark Jones                          1:105/302.47    .åò 21 .àp 96 23:18
 To   : Gary Warren
 Subj : How does Catherine survive into new B&B miniseries??
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On (19 Mar 96) Gary Warren wrote to Mark Jones...

 MJ> That isn't necessarily the case. It depends on *when* Sam leaps
 MJ> in, and *who* Sam possesses. He could abort the whole thing
 MJ> before Gabriel ever gets his hands on Catherine. Or he could leap
 MJ> into one of the armed goons guarding Catherine and find a way to
 MJ> help her escape. Or he could leap into a policeman (or DA--as I
 MJ> recall, in the fan-fic story, he possessed Joe, Catherine's DA
 MJ> pal). A cop or a DA who figured out where she was being held
 MJ> *could* gather an army.
 GW>
 GW> I sincerely (and without any flaming, ok? :D) think you're
 GW> reaching, Mark, a bit too far. If we're going to have impossible
 GW> crossovers, for economic and TV studio reasons, let's have one
 GW> where TNG's Worf ends up in Gabriel's HQ. Would be neat to see
 GW> him beside Vincent, no?

   Of course I'm reaching.  I don't expect this to happen--I just
think it would be really neat if it could.
   As for a B&B/ST:TNG cross-over....blech!  No way!


--- PPoint 1.78
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 Msg  : 248 of 249
 From : Jon Helis                           1:3800/25       .óá 23 .àp 96 22:15
 To   : Denis Lamy
 Subj : Re: Generations Big Mista
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 -=> Quoting Denis Lamy to Brandon Wolgast <=-

 DL> First bug that appear in it is the fact that you only have to cross
 DL> the nexus to be in it. Why did Soran had to move the path of the nexus
 DL> to cross a planet, he only had to fly through it with a shuttle. Or do
 DL> you need to use a starship for that (Kirk first death).

My understanding was that ships that crossed the Nexus were
either severely damaged or destroyed, which was why Dr. Soren
had to use a planet in order to get back into the Nexus.


... No Worf...The holodeck won't run Doom.
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

--- PCBoard (R) v15.22/M 10
 * Origin: * DataCom BBS - Baton Rouge, La. -  (504)275-2605 - @dcbbs.com *
(1:3800/25)

Ä [31] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 249 of 249
 From : Keith Stokes                        1:280/5         .óá 23 .àp 96 21:16
 To   : Todd Sullivan
 Subj : Starship Troopers
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE/2 1.2
 * Origin: Infinity (1:280/5)

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 Msg  : 1 of 233
 From : Frank Swarbrick                     1:104/825       .îí 22 .ïp 96 19:42
 To   : Jeff Lutkus
 Subj : Denise Crosby
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12  92-0022
On 04-21-96  13:45 Jeff Lutkus, the heir to the kingdom of idiots, said:

 -=> Quoting Frank Swarbrick to Jeff Lutkus <=-

 FS> On 04-17-96  19:57 Jeff Lutkus, the heir to the kingdom of idiots,
 FS> said:
 -=> Quoting Mark Moore to All <=-

 MM> Hey everybody, the new Star Trek movie, Ressurection, is due out in
 MM> the theaters this summer. I'm starting a petition to bring Denise

 JL> just a comment here, but I heard it'll be out around Thanksgiving... I
 JL> don't believe they could possible go from having shot nothing to
 JL> finishing the movie before the summer's over.

 FS> Why not?  They did it for Generations in 1994.

 JL> that's odd, since I remember seing generations around thanksgiving of
 JL> 94.

Oh, did he say summer?  Oops, I suppose I should read the thing before
answering!!  You're right that Generations came out around
Thanksgiving of 1994.  But all I've heard is ST8 is due out
Thanksgiving this year, so that's why I answered as I did.  OOOps.

        Frank

... Let them eat static!
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12
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 Msg  : 2 of 233
 From : Falcon                              1:366/205       .îí 22 .ïp 96 20:06
 To   : Moderator
 Subj : Rules
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Would you please post the rules of this echo so that one of the first things
my users will see is the rules when they come into this echo?
Thank you very much.

--- (904)689-0025
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Ä [20] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 3 of 233
 From : Lori Brown                          1:363/1701      .îí 22 .ïp 96 21:06
 To   : Wayne Crow
 Subj : Kindred: Embrace
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

WC>  TS>I think it's an excellent departure from the "standard" that came
WC>  from Dracu
WC>  TS>but it has that air Stoker created.  Certainly better than what
WC>  was done in
WC>  TS>'Salem's Lot.  King did better than the adaptors could cope with,
WC>  methinks.
WC>
WC>    So do I. It's a well written show. It's not the usual Dracula stuff
WC>  we've been known to seen. That's what I mainly like about the show. I
WC>  just saw a preview of the next show on Wednesday. Looks like another
WC>  good episode..
WC>

I like "Kindred" too. You guys (hi, Todd!) do realize it's based on "Vampire:
The Masquerade" role-playing game & the World of Darkness created for the game,
right?

Lori Brown
email: Lori.Brown%274@Satlink.oau.org

... Christian Science Programming: "Let God Debug It!".
--- QuickBBS 2.80 (Zeta-1)
 * Origin: NCC-1701 - Orlando, FL   407-380-1701 (1:363/1701)

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 Msg  : 4 of 233
 From : Dave MacLean                        1:259/536       .òp 23 .ïp 96 00:19
 To   : Bob Klahn
 Subj : SCI FI
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
hi i enjoy other sci fi myself such as  b5 and sliders. i have never seen
spaceabove & beyond. should you want to talk trek or other sci fi feel free to
message me. bye for now and hope we will message again.



--- Maximus 2.01wb
 * Origin: USS Proxima = Toronto, Canada (416)265-3867 (1:259/536)

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 Msg  : 5 of 233
 From : C. Morgan                           1:377/50        .òp 23 .ïp 96 01:47
 To   : Gerry Normandeau
 Subj : planet of the apes
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

-> lists for other countries, other than the UK and France. If you Have
-> the titles of specific films I can look it up in the 200 movie books
-> I have on hand or do some outside research.

I'm like you, looking for lists of films.  I'm not really looking for
anything particular.  Then again, I don't really know much of anything
about the foreign sci-fi.

And you're right, books (at least covering topics _you_ the _reader_
want) on such topics are relatively hard to find.

Though if it was adult there'd be one for it.  <bleh>

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 Msg  : 6 of 233
 From : Kay Shapero                         1:102/524       .pä 24 .ïp 96 09:01
 To   : Richard Anderson
 Subj : Sound In Space
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Apr 22 08:15>, Richard Anderson (1:284/28) wrote to Gerry Normandeau:

 GN>  BK> Star Trek is so far off it's unbelievable.
 RA>
 RA> Its Seince-Fiction.... Its NOT suposed to be Bealivable !!!!
 RA> Just Enterainment....Nothing more Nothing Less!!!!

The whole point of SF is supposed to be believable science with a certain amount
of extrapolation from current science, or else exploration of what might happen
if some new factor was added, or something we "know" turns out to be completely
wrong.  Pure carelessness does not qualify.  And it's jarring, not entertaining,
to have real terms used wrongly (no, an event horizon is NOT a hard and possibly
crackable shell around a singularity - assuming it's not squished into oblivion
in the transition, the way to get a Star Trek ship out of a black hole is to
turn on the warp drive being as it's *faster* than light.)

--- msged 2.06
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 Msg  : 7 of 233
 From : Kay Shapero                         1:102/524       .pä 24 .ïp 96 09:06
 To   : Frank Glover
 Subj : Soft/Slaver Weapon
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Apr 22 20:21>, Frank Glover (1:2613/477) wrote to Kay Shapero:

KS>  self-controlled ones.  A sane Puppeteer is very timid by human
KS>  standards (I hesitate to use the word "cowardly" because it has
KS>  emotional loadings that simply do not apply.)  Nessus, who kicked
KS>  Chuft-Captain is NOT sane, and the results are a rude surprise to him
KS>  quite as much as to the Kzinti.
 FG>
 FG>   But...aren't Vulcans the intellectual puppets of the Federation??
 FG>

They'd have to be intellectual puppeteers... Hmm.. maybe that was their sneaky
way of telling us that actually the Vulcans run the Federation, from behind the
scenes?  :->


--- msged 2.06
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 Msg  : 8 of 233
 From : Kay Shapero                         1:102/524       .pä 24 .ïp 96 09:09
 To   : Dave MacLean
 Subj : SCI FI
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Apr 19 03:03>, Dave MacLean (1:250/701) wrote to Bob Klahn:

 DM>just a quick note if you ever want to talk b5 feel free to
 DM>message me i enjoy that to if not keep on trekin.

I like talking about Babylon 5.  :->

suppose I'd better put in a Ceremonies of Light and Dark spoiler or people will
talk...

















How'd you like the epic battle between Londo and the bug last episode?  A real
ROFLer!

And then there's Vir's new.. wife?  fiance?  Sorta between?  I was reminded of a
young cat bringing you a mouse to play with as a token of her esteem, and
totally bewildered by your reaction.  By the end of that episode, I was half
expecting Vir to ask Minbar for asylum. :->


--- msged 2.06
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 Msg  : 9 of 233
 From : Todd Sullivan                       1:202/720.3     .pä 24 .ïp 96 18:13
 To   : Lori Brown
 Subj : Kindred: Embrace
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Reports from the Interior indicate that Lori Brown leaked the following to Wayne
Crow, re: Kindred: Embrace

 LB> I like "Kindred" too. You guys (hi, Todd!) do realize it's based on
 LB> "Vampire: The Masquerade" role-playing game & the World of Darkness
 LB> created for the game, right?

Yes, "Boss Lady", I *do* remember that.  I only posted the first message about
it.  Of course, I'm sure someone else would have if I hadn't.... eventually.

So, which one do you consider yourself?

Me?  Gangrel, of course. <G>

Todd Sullivan

... The 4 best anti-depressants:  Money, Sex, Chocolate and Raquel Welch.

-*- ASTG 1.9

--- Spot 1.3a Unregistered
 * Origin: Todd's Spot in the Continuum (1:202/720.3)

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 Msg  : 10 of 233
 From : Patrick Long                        1:271/380       .åò 25 .ïp 96 13:44
 To   : Brion Lienhart
 Subj : Denise Crosby
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

  -=>MM-=>I'm starting a petition to bring Denise Crosby's
  -=>  -=>character, Tasha Yar, back for keeps in the new movie.

BL-=>  -=>Write back to me and tell me what you think of this idea.

BL-=> -PL>I don't like it.  She's dead, and the dead should stay that way (Spoc
  -=> -PL>notwithstanding).  Or should we also be bringing back all those
  -=> -PL>red-shirted corpses from the original series as well?

BL-=>I kind of liked her Romulan daughter, but then they never did
  -=>anything with her  after that set of episodes (was that one, or
  -=>two?).

Three, I think.  I liked them too, but hated her appearance in the
final episode because she looked too different from her original
appearance (she was thinner then...).  "Yar" is dead, let her R.I.P.

... I've got plenty of natural protrubrances with which to whack people.

--- ViaMAIL!/WC5 v1.00d
 * Origin: ViaMail v1.00ñv - The Gondor BBS (804) 888-1567  (1:271/380)

Ä [20] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 11 of 233
 From : Lis Carey                           1:101/230       .pä 24 .ïp 96 07:51
 To   : Lawrence E Dunlap
 Subj : EDUCATION THROUGH FICTION
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
LED>    This is partly due to the openness of politics and entertainment to
LED>admitting individuals who are psychological/developmental adolescents.

LED>    These individuals are naturally unable to function in ordinary
LED>workplaces where success requires a harsh, brutal competition where
LED>aggressive workers fight against each other to forcibly expel their
LED>opponents for a promotion or career.

I've worked in a place like that. One place. I didn't stay.

All of my longer-term employment [including the current company, where
I've been for six years now] has featured workers who are working
_together_ to achieve the intended goals of the organization, not trying
to cut each other's throats. These organizations have included a public
library, a law firm, a pharmaceutical corporation, and a biotech
company. All _successful_ ones, I might add.

LED>    These individuals are additional aware they are imcompatible with US
LED>business life but make no attempt to seek vovcational advisement or
LED>thearpy about their stunted development psychologically

Um, Lawrence, not having the same viciously hostile attitude towards
one's coworkers that you have is NOT the same thing as having "stunted
development psycologically". Quite the contrary. Healthy people can tell
the difference between friends and enemies, and recognize that _both_
competition and cooperation are necessary to getting things done.

And I find the notion that _politicians_ can't cope with a fairly high
level of competition downright funny. Or, for that matter, actors,
directors, and producers. These are very high-competition fields.


 * OLX 2.1 TD * Book (n): cat magnet, but only if you're reading it.

--- FLAME v1.0
 * Origin: Withouta Net - Drop In Anytime! - 617/846-5416 (1:101/230)

Ä [20] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 12 of 233
 From : Brandon Wolgast                     1:363/281       .pä 24 .ïp 96 13:00
 To   : Rod Mammitzsch
 Subj : Special Edition Update
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE 1.2

RM>        I don't know about that...I think some of them do have the "wars"
RM>feel...Timothy Zhan's trilogy, Truce at Bakura, and various moments from the
RM>rest...
RM>        Yeah...I'd like to hear what was writen in the sourcebooks...and wha
RM>exactly are the source books?  Are they gosple? or another point of contenti
RM>        I'll keep reading the novels...they're fun, and at times good Star
RM>Wars.

I agree with you Rod, I feel the books with the MOST Star Wars "feel" to
them are Andersons four books.  I think the Sun Crusher and other such
things are stupid, but the feel was SW.

The sourcebooks are for the Star Wars RPG, that in itself is not to be
taken as true but they are "true" as far as the books they are based on.
They sum up the story, tell all about the characters in them and
backgrounds. At the beginning of each sourcebook it states:

This and all other products that take place after the events depicted in
Return of the Jedi are the author's visio of what may have happened.
The true fate of the heroes and villains of the Star Wars universe
remains the exclusive province of George Lucas and Lucasfilm, Ltd.

That came from the Heir to the Empire Sourcebook, but they all state the
same.  Also in an interview on CNN Lucas stated something similar.

***
 * OLX 2.1 * Backup not found: (A)bort (R)etry (P)anic

--- Use the FORCE!!!
 * Origin: Feduberator * STAR WARS Support * (407)381-2798 (1:363/281)

Ä [20] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 13 of 233
 From : Brandon Wolgast                     1:363/281       .pä 24 .ïp 96 20:02
 To   : All
 Subj : Abyss: 4 hours long
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE 1.2
Just wanted everyone to know who has, or knows someone who has the
Sci-Fi channel.  On May 4th (I believe), they are showing the
LETTERBOXED FOUR HOUR LONG (caps to emphasize<g>) version of The Abyss.
It will have almost 2 hours of cut footage that no one has seen before,
such as the alien ships coming up under the Golden Gate bridge and, well
a ton of scenes.  So don't miss this showing if you have access to the
Sci-Fi Channel.

***
 * OLX 2.1 * Backup not found: (A)bort (R)etry (P)anic

--- Use the FORCE!!!
 * Origin: Feduberator * STAR WARS Support * (407)381-2798 (1:363/281)

Ä [20] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 14 of 233
 From : Frank Glover                        1:2613/477      .åò 25 .ïp 96 20:44
 To   : Brion Lienhart
 Subj : Denise Crosby
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

BL>  I kind of liked her Romulan daughter, but then they never did
BL>  anything with her after that set of episodes (was that one, or two?).

   Good point. They should bring her in again, either in the third NextGen
movie, or in DS9.

   Frank


--- QuickBBS 2.80 (Zeta-2)
 * Origin: The Matrix Data Bank BBS, Rochester, Ny (1:2613/477)

Ä [20] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 15 of 233
 From : Lawrence E Dunlap                   1:106/2927      .òp 23 .ïp 96 21:52
 To   : Kay Shapero
 Subj : Soft/Slaver Weapon
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

KS> Origin: (1:102/524)

Kay Shapero wrote to C. Morgan re:
Niven's "Soft Weapon"/ST:TAS "The Slaver Weapon"

    <previous portion excised for message transfer protocols>

KS>Of course he [Niven] did - he took his original story and scripted it
 KS>for the show. The main reason I prefer the story is that the
KS>background more tightly fits the plot; it works better with Nessus
KS>the Mad Puppeteer. We already think of Vulcans as warriors, just
KS>tightly self-controlled ones. A sane Puppeteer is very timid by
KS>human standards (I hesitate to use the word "cowardly" because it has
KS>emotional loadings that simply do not apply.) Nessus, who kicked
KS>Chuft-Captain is NOT sane, and the results are a rude surprise to him
KS>quite as much as to the Kzinti.

    Kay, has Niven ever done a backstory about the Puppeter home world?
He finally started into the Man-Kzin Wars after innumerable pleas and
calls for the work saying nothing of the years that have passed.

    I thought Niven might finally succumb to a backstory about the
origins of the Puppeter race with some explanation about why the
Puppeters were so timid.

If you remember, Beowulf Shaffer's voyage to the chain-supernovae
galactic core explosion sent the Puppeters running out of the galaxy for
good and all, in "At The Core" which is the beginning of the passing of
Puppeters from Niven's continuum.

    Nessus remained behind in our galaxy ("Soft Weapon" following "At
The Core" in *Neutron Star*) because his behavioral sickness relative
Puppeter behavioral criteria sealed his castaway fate in a exploding
galactic core.

    If I remember, Nessus was, for a Puppeter, their parallel to
"Bipolar disorder" Likely very depressed about being left to die in his
lifetime by a serial supernovae detonation. That explains his roaming
the galaxy with humans in a starship he owned. (I'd be manic about being
rated "expendable" myself!)

    The story of Nessus after "Soft Weapon" is unwritten. Possibly for good.


Lawrence E Dunlap
(1:106/2927) or Internet e-mail "PostOakLED@AOL.com"
___
 * UniQWK #5136*  'What does intelligence have to do with politics?'
- JetMail v1.12 - Unregistered QWK Mail Door for Spitfire

--- Alexi/Mail 2.02b (#10000)
 * Origin: Computer Living F'n BBS-Houston, TX 713-444-2927 (1:106/2927)

Ä [20] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 16 of 233
 From : Ronald de Graaf                     2:282/502.2     .òp 23 .ïp 96 18:55
 To   : Eric Fishbein
 Subj : RE:DR. WHO
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Op 20 Apr 96  00:37:50 schreef Eric Fishbein aan C. Morgan iets over <DR. WHO>

EF>         If it's on FOX how good could it be?

The BBC TVepisodes were not the highpoint of quality, either.....


Grtz
Ronaldo!

---  F.I.P.S./32 v0.90a Win95/NT
 * Origin: "I don't have a life; I have a program." - Voyager Hol (2:282/502.2)

Ä [20] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 17 of 233
 From : Charles Daniels                     1:203/42        .cê 28 .ïp 96 11:09
 To   : Sue Squires
 Subj : comic book
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

> Okay, I'll bite.  I finally found out what anime was (never knew the
> style had a name before) but what is manga?

Okay easy-peasy.  Manga is the Japanese word for Comic Book.  It is the same
style as anime only it's still drawings instead of animation.

--- FMail 0.98
 * Origin: Deep Thought: RedDwarf,ST,SF, FREE MEAT!  916-452-9501 (1:203/42)

Ä [20] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 18 of 233
 From : Kevin Ahearn                        1:109/104       .cê 28 .ïp 96 18:04
 To   : Bob Klahn
 Subj : SPOILEREVIEW: SIC 'EM
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 KS>> I think that's Vir's fate really - always to do the right thing and
 KS>> never to be rewarded.

 BK>> Sounds like even being Emperor won't be a reward.

 KS> Nope, I don't think it will.  But I think he'll be one of the best
 KS> emperors they've had.

 BK>  Based much on the theory that those who want power are
 BK> least suited to wield
 BK>  it. He's just honest and decent enough to throw everyone for a loop.

On the other hand, maybe his turn at th throne will come after the shadow
war...and his first act as emporer will be having Morden's head stuck on a pole
so that the new Empore can greet Morden with a finger wave...

--Kevin

--- Maximus/2 3.01
 * Origin: ShanErin (1:109/104)

Ä [20] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 19 of 233
 From : David Johnston                      1:342/14        .cê 28 .ïp 96 10:24
 To   : Eric Fishbein
 Subj : Re: Dr. Who
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
-> and TV/Theatrical sci-fi is no exception.  Case in point: Terry
-> Gilliam's "12 Monkeys", a good movie by all acounts, that probably
-> would have been made bette by an actor with some REAL TALENT in the
-> lead role.  You get the feeling that

Yeah.  Then the monkeys would have outnumbered the audience, but who
cares?

--- PCBoard (R) v15.21/100
 * Origin: Freddy's Place - Edm. AB - 28.8K (403) 456-4241 (1:342/14)

Ä [20] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 20 of 233
 From : Glenn Shaheen                       1:3600/7        .åò 25 .ïp 96 19:16
 To   : Todd Sullivan
 Subj : Star Trek
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

TS>There are (not better) more elegant ways to do it, and we need no more of
TS>the Fitzsimmons, in any incarnation, thank-you-very-much!

        Fitzsimmons?
-=-
 * KMD PRO * LSD: Virtual reality without the expensive hardware!

--- SLMAIL v3.5C  (#1540)
 * Origin: Robotech þ Lake City's Music*Demo BBS þ [904] 758*9477 (1:3600/7)

Ä [20] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 21 of 233
 From : Glenn Shaheen                       1:3600/7        .åò 25 .ïp 96 19:17
 To   : Todd Sullivan
 Subj : Star Trek
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

TS>I've watched every incarnation of Trek, and Voyager is the most
TS>disapponting.  There's tons of potential being wasted; the writers don't
TS>capitalize on any really heavy plot-lines being the worst offense.

        I'll admit, there are more bad than good episodes, but there are
a few gooduns.


TS>TNG was and DS9 is doing better, but both suffered from a loss of directi
TS>after Roddenberry died, IMO.

        I didn't find that. Deep Space 9 wasn't out yet when Roddenberry
died if I remember, or it was only just starting.

-=-
 * KMD PRO *
  (\
   \_ _/(\
     Q Q  \)
   =(_T_)=
      "

--- SLMAIL v3.5C  (#1540)
 * Origin: Robotech þ Lake City's Music*Demo BBS þ [904] 758*9477 (1:3600/7)

Ä [20] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 22 of 233
 From : Bob Klahn                           1:234/2         .óá 27 .ïp 96 18:22
 To   : Kay Shapero
 Subj : SOUND IN SPACE
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 KS> The whole point of SF is supposed to be believable science with a
 KS> certain amount of extrapolation from current science, or else
 KS> exploration of what might happen if some new factor was added, or
 KS> something we "know" turns out to be completely wrong.  Pure
 KS> carelessness does not qualify.  And it's jarring, not entertaining, to

 Very good explanation.

BOB KLAHN

... WinErr: 010  Reserved for future mistakes by our developers.
 * Silver Xpress V4.3P RB10275

--- FLAME v1.1
 * Origin: Telnet toltbbs.com or call 313-854-6001, Boardwatch #55 (1:234/2)

Ä [20] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 23 of 233
 From : Bob Klahn                           1:234/2         .óá 27 .ïp 96 18:22
 To   : Ronald De Graaf
 Subj : DR. WHO
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 RDG> Op 20 Apr 96  00:37:50 schreef Eric Fishbein aan C. Morgan iets over
 RDG> <DR. WHO>

EF>>         If it's on FOX how good could it be?

 RDG> The BBC TVepisodes were not the highpoint of quality, either.....

 What are you talking about? Their special effects budget alone must have
 exceeded $5.95. That's per episode too.

BOB KLAHN

... Charter member, Obsolete Equipment Club of North America.
 * Silver Xpress V4.3P RB10275

--- FLAME v1.1
 * Origin: Telnet toltbbs.com or call 313-854-6001, Boardwatch #55 (1:234/2)

Ä [20] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 24 of 233
 From : John Shoemaker                      1:109/611       .ÿò 26 .ïp 96 15:59
 To   : ROBERT LIDGREN
 Subj : HARLAN ELLISON BYPASS
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Robert,
 I got to meet Ellison a couple of years ago when he way promoting his comic
 book. Have you seen it?


... RAM DISK is NOT an installation procedure!
--- Blue Wave/DOS v2.30 [NR]
 * Origin: AD Multi-Node Message BBS (703) 241-1826 (1:109/611@FIDONET)

Ä [20] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 25 of 233
 From : Earl Green                          1:3822/1        .cê 28 .ïp 96 22:26
 To   : All
 Subj : LogBook disaster delay
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Just a quick note for everyone...
   The three new LogBook files scheduled for this month will not be
released until May 21.  I had announced earlier release dates for two of
these files, but due to circumstances beyond my control the delay is
necessary.  Don't poll for the new LogBook files (STLB0496.ZIP,
LARC0496.ZIP, LBMI0496.ZIP) until May 21!  Thanks.
      e  <-- Earl Green (earl.green@f1.n3822.z1.fidonet.org)  1:3822/1
                          ^ Please take note of the new e-mail address
---
 * SLMR 2.0 * Drab as a fool, aloof as a bard.

--- QScan/PCB v1.19b / 01-0162
 * Origin: Jackalope Junction 501-785-5381 Ft Smith AR (1:3822/1)

Ä [20] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 26 of 233
 From : Peter Newallis                      1:280/341       .cê 28 .ïp 96 21:08
 To   : Kay Shapero
 Subj : Re: STARSHIP TROOPERS
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 Kay Shapero:


 KS> At least if those powered armor suits make personal strength
 KS> irrelevant.  If they don't, I still think you're going to find far
 KS> more men in the infantry. :->  Heinlein's division in ST of female
 KS> pilots/male groundpounders still seems not unreasonable.

   <Sorry this reply isn't timely work got out of control and I'm cleaning
up mail packets and I really liked this one)

  I like the GROPOS view of ground troops in B5. In today's military,
brains are more inportant than fittness. Certainly more than physical
strength. Walk on a military base and look for how many people have
glasses. The reason is the military decided that smart troops are more
important than than troops with perfect vision. (Not linking brains and
glasses, but the point that allowing glasses increased the pool of good
recruits)

  In the tight confines of military vehicles (like tanks) average or small
is good. I'd rather have a small, smart scout than even a smart big one,
less chace of being spotted.

  I think it (female polit/male GOPOS) had more to do with the time RAH
wrote the book in, he had a chivalric view towards women. Ground fighting
is considered more messy. Let the guys do the dirty work and the ladies
fire the "clean" missiles.

  Pete


... "In a mature society 'civil servant' is equal to 'civil master'." --LL
--- Blue Wave/TG v2.12 [NR]
 * Origin: Beyond the Pale 913-384-1577 (1:280/341.0)

Ä [20] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 27 of 233
 From : Bob Klahn                           1:234/2         .cê 28 .ïp 96 18:55
 To   : Trishia Dressler
 Subj : IT'S NOT JUST YOU
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 BK>> Trishia, I got a series of msgs from you in my packet. They are
 BK>> apparently for a single parents echo, but showed up in the SF Fan

 TD> Sorry.. I had a reply packet that screwed up... yes they were for
 TD> the single parents echo... hmm... could you tell me what messages
 TD> were sent there ? so I can rewrite them and send them...

 Sorry, I don't still have them, and they have been deleted from the BBS
 after their time ran out.

BOB KLAHN

... Fire eaters quickly learn not to spit into the wind. <G>
 * Silver Xpress V4.3P RB10275

--- FLAME v1.1
 * Origin: Telnet toltbbs.com or call 313-854-6001, Boardwatch #55 (1:234/2)

Ä [20] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 28 of 233
 From : Bob Klahn                           1:234/2         .cê 28 .ïp 96 18:55
 To   : Lawrence E Dunlap
 Subj : SOFT/SLAVER WEAPON
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 LED>     I thought Niven might finally succumb to a backstory about the
 LED> origins of the Puppeter race with some explanation about why the
 LED> Puppeters were so timid.

 LED> If you remember, Beowulf Shaffer's voyage to the chain-supernovae
 LED> galactic core explosion sent the Puppeters running out of the galaxy
 LED> for good and all, in "At The Core" which is the beginning of the
 LED> passing of Puppeters from Niven's continuum.

 I thought the conclusion was the Puppeteers were just excessively sensible.

BOB KLAHN

... Tip #9: Add DEVICE=FNGRCROS.SYS to CONFIG.SYS
 * Silver Xpress V4.3P RB10275

--- FLAME v1.1
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Ä [20] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 29 of 233
 From : Bob Klahn                           1:234/2         .cê 28 .ïp 96 18:55
 To   : Bill Clements
 Subj : EDUCATION THROUGH FIC
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 BC> Posted 17 Apr 96 - BILL CLEMENTS to TODD SULLIVAN

 BC>> The abovementioned situation has given us an ever growing
 BC>> segment of the American public that simply sits gazing at the
 BC>> drivel that is pasted between T.V. commercials. The quality of
 BC>> entertainment has been spiraling downward for a number of years;
 BC>> proportionate to the decrease of educational standards in
 BC>> America. Unfortunately this drop in programing quality has not
 BC>> been noticed by most of the viewing public.

 BC> We appear to agree. Looking back at the above quote I believe
 BC> that I can make a case for the the decline of United States
 BC> educational standards proportionate to the annual increase in
 BC> the sales of television sets to American consumers.

 I'm willing to bet you can't make a valid case for declining educational
 standards in the US at all. I've heard this over and over and never seen the
 evidence presented. It's always some study somebody did, but no supporting
 data provided.


 LE>>     For those interested in my viewing habits to evaluate the
 LE>> consonance between my words and ideation, I only watch the ST group,
 LE>> *Babylon 5* and selected sporting events on TV.

 BC> content. Were it not for M*A*S*H, TNG, Florida Marlins Baseball,

 I would argue that the entire Star Trek series represents a decline in
 educational standards. The lack of valid scientific basis for much of
 anything is the basis for my saying this. I'd like to see real scientific
 knowledge extrapolated to the future.

 B5 and Space above and Beyond probably do not really do any better on the
 science, but they are less glitter and gimicks and heavy on plot and
 character.

 I'd love to continue the education discussion, if you wish. I read the
 debate echo all the time.

BOB KLAHN

... My taglines are never random.
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Ä [20] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 30 of 233
 From : Bob Klahn                           1:234/2         .cê 28 .ïp 96 19:07
 To   : Bill Clements
 Subj : EDUCATION THROUGH FIC
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 BC> In Florida today adult adolescence and unacceptable workmanship
 BC> are not considered valid reasons to terminate an employee. An
 BC> individual thus terminated will simply march down to the Florida
 BC> Department of Labor and Employment Security and file for
 BC> unemployment compensation. He'll get it too, 26 weeks of half
 BC> pay vacation with mandatory, of course, but cursory job
 BC> interviews. At this time the employers "experience rating" will
 BC> go up, as will his premium for mandatory state unemployment
 BC> insurance. The state of Florida grants it's residents the
 BC> right, not privilege, of gainful employment. Well paid Florida
 BC> residents can, if "wrongly" terminated, cause a steep upturn in
 BC> an employers unemployment insurance premium.

 Having given this some thought I have come to the conclusion that this
 portion should also be challenged. I would like to explain exactly why there
 is nothing at all unreasonable in that situation, but I would prefer to do
 it in an echo where it would be on-topic. If you don't get the debate echo,
 is there another you would choose?

BOB KLAHN

... $719.28:  The Number of the Beast (including tax)
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Ä [20] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 31 of 233
 From : Bill Clements                       1:18/230        .åò 25 .ïp 96 15:09
 To   : Lawrence E Dunlap
 Subj : EDUCATION THROUGH FICTION
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
From the desk of a cynical old man...

Posted 22 Apr 96 - LAWRENCE E DUNLAP to BILL CLEMENTS

 LE>     This is partly due to the openness of politics and entertainment
 LE> to admitting individuals who are psychological/developmental
 LE> adolescents.

 LE>     These individuals are naturally unable to function in ordinary
 LE> workplaces where success requires a harsh, brutal competition where
 LE> aggressive workers fight against each other to forcibly expel their
 LE> opponents for a promotion or career.

 [snip]

 LE>     Any place else, adult adolescence and unacceptable workmanship
 LE> leads to termination and chronic unemployment at which point either
 LE> reformation of the dysfunctional worker occurs or unemployment leads
 LE> to starvation to death on the streets or totally avoidable suicide.

These statements are not true throughout the United States today
and grow less true on a daily basis. You are reporting a trend
that will continue to spread through the U.S. unless it is
stopped by grassroots action.

In "Megatrends" trend tracker John Naisbitt says this about
`Bellwether States':

---------------------- BEGIN NAISBITT QUOTE ---------------------
Our group collects information about what's going on locally
across the country and then looks for patterns. The results can
be fascinating. For example, we have learned that there are five
states in which most social invention occurs in this country. The
other forty-five are in effect followers.

Not surprisingly, California is the key indicator state; Florida
is second, although not too far behind; the other three
trend-setter states are Washington, Colorado, and Connecticut.
---------------------------- CONTINUED --------------------------
In fact, Florida is becoming increasingly important as a
bellwether state and may soon surpass California. The reason is
demographics. In 1980 Florida had the nations oldest population
and Floridians experienced growing tension between the state's
older and younger residents. This conflict is especially
noteworthy, because by about the year 1995 the entire U.S.
population will reflect the same age-youth ratio that Florida has
now, according to Census Bureau projections. By carefully
watching Florida, we stand to learn a wealth of information about
the problems and opportunities the whole nation will face in the
future.
----------------------- END NAISBITT QUOTE ----------------------

First notice that California and Florida, both bellwether
states, are home to the chief Television and Motion Picture
production houses.

In Florida today adult adolescence and unacceptable workmanship
are not considered valid reasons to terminate an employee. An
individual thus terminated will simply march down to the Florida
Department of Labor and Employment Security and file for
unemployment compensation. He'll get it too, 26 weeks of half
pay vacation with mandatory, of course, but cursory job
interviews. At this time the employers "experience rating" will
go up, as will his premium for mandatory state unemployment
insurance. The state of Florida grants it's residents the
right, not privilege, of gainful employment. Well paid Florida
residents can, if "wrongly" terminated, cause a steep upturn in
an employers unemployment insurance premium.

 [paste]

 LE>     This could wander off to a off-topic discussion of how US
 LE> vocational incentives clashing with destructive competition.

This discussion can't go off topic. As long as I stick to
current events in Florida it is, unless you are a Floridian, for
all practical purposes science fiction. That's right, I'm living
in and reporting on your probable future.

 LE>     Bill, there is no other servicable disincentive to poor quality
 LE> television save a viewer population uniformly rejecting trash; that
 LE> requires a population sufficiently discriminating enough *to* reject
 LE> the bad and favor the good.

 LE>     I suspect if US audiences demand family programming, it is
 LE> unlikely to become manifest except major behavior change occurs in the
 LE> mass population exhibiting composite anc corporate disgust with current
 LE> offerings while showing favor to programming of suitable quality and
 LE> benefit to a audience needing education for the next century.

Posted 17 Apr 96 - BILL CLEMENTS to TODD SULLIVAN

 BC> The abovementioned situation has given us an ever growing
 BC> segment of the American public that simply sits gazing at the
 BC> drivel that is pasted between T.V. commercials. The quality of
 BC> entertainment has been spiraling downward for a number of years;
 BC> proportionate to the decrease of educational standards in
 BC> America. Unfortunately this drop in programing quality has not
 BC> been noticed by most of the viewing public.

We appear to agree. Looking back at the above quote I believe
that I can make a case for the the decline of United States
educational standards proportionate to the annual increase in
the sales of television sets to American consumers.

 LE>     For those interested in my viewing habits to evaluate the
 LE> consonance between my words and ideation, I only watch the ST group,
 LE> *Babylon 5* and selected sporting events on TV.

 LE>     Most local sporting events played here in my town I listen to on
 LE> the radio, so I can type in reply to a message in my packet during a
 LE> baseball game.

You're ahead of me there, no local sports on radio, fortunately
you _CAN_ listen to sports on T.V. without too much loss of
content. Were it not for M*A*S*H, TNG, Florida Marlins Baseball,
and the news my television would stay cold and dark for _LONG_
periods of time. Speaking of listening to T.V., if you can't
successfully follow and enjoy a show using only audio it's
producers are doing something decidedly wrong.

Quote from: "Megatrends" (C)opyright 1982 by John Naisbitt
ISBN 0-446-51251-6

--RWC

... "In a mature society 'civil servant' is equal to 'civil master'." --LL

--- PPoint 2.00 / QWK

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Ä [20] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 32 of 233
 From : Frank Glover                        1:2613/477      .ÿò 26 .ïp 96 20:20
 To   : Peter Tam
 Subj : Re: sci-fi cartoons
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

PT>   FG>    I particularly enjoyed `The Herculoids' (like Space
PT>   FG> Ghost, a Hanna-Barbera product) at the time. Always
PT>   FG> thought it had potential, if handled a little better.
PT>
PT>  How 'bout 'The Galaxy Trio'?

   Not as impresed. I was thinking of the original stuff they did in 1968 or so.
(along with Space Ghost, Shazzan, Mightor and one or two others that were on CBS
at the time) The later incarnation of the Herculoids, Space Ghost and the Galaxy
Trio seemed less credible....

   Frank


--- QuickBBS 2.80 (Zeta-2)
 * Origin: The Matrix Data Bank BBS, Rochester, Ny (1:2613/477)

Ä [20] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 33 of 233
 From : Trishia Dressler                    1:153/758       .åò 25 .ïp 96 22:23
 To   : Bob Klahn
 Subj : IT'S NOT JUST YOU
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 -=> Quoting Bob Klahn to Trishia Dressler <=-

 BK> Trishia, I got a series of msgs from you in my packet. They are
 BK> apparently for a single parents echo, but showed up in the SF Fan
 BK> echo. I suspect you uploaded them to this echo by mistake, or your BBS
 BK> put them in there by mistake. I had that happen to me a while back,
 BK> everything for one echo went into another. If that is what is
 BK> happening you might like to look into it.
 BK> BOB KLAHN

Sorry.. I had a reply packet that screwed up... yes they were for
the single parents echo... hmm... could you tell me what messages
were sent there ? so I can rewrite them and send them...
I know exactly what happened.. but it happened with a 20 message
reply packet... and some of them did reach their proper destination..

anyways.. I should go as this is VERY off topic
cya
Trishia Dressler

... This Tagline is cloaked. You can't see it. Er, can you??
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Ä [20] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 34 of 233
 From : Bob Klahn                           1:234/2         .ÿò 26 .ïp 96 09:42
 To   : Kay Shapero
 Subj : SPOILEREVIEW: SIC 'EM
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 KS> On <Apr 21 12:12>, Bob Klahn (1:234/2) wrote to Kay Shapero:

 KS>> Earl Green's spiffy spoiler warning having been trashed by my quoter, I
 KS>> hereby substitute a lot of returns.

















 KS>> Typical Vir luck, I must admit.

 BK>> He didn't pick her.

 KS> As I said, typical Vir luck.

 Good point.

 KS>> Of course the marriage COULD be Sheridan and Delenn, this being the

 BK>> That's my bet.

 KS> The idea makes me a tad uneasy for some reason.  Probably because it
 KS> hovers about several hoary old cliches and thus far this series had not
 KS> been noted for cliches.  And of course the politics involved....  Oi.

 I concur. It was so nice without the romantic entanglement. Besides, you are
 right about the politics. Here they are, in the middle of a war, trying to
 establish alliances. The last thing they need is to raise questions about
 their motives. Their enemies could use any involvement against them at
 tremendous cost to both worlds.

 BK>> This does, however, raise one question. If she is so well
 BK>>trained in unarmed self defense, why did Vir have to defend against
 BK>>the first attack, then why did Sheridan have to come to their rescue,
 BK>>getting cut in the attempt?

 KS> Because neither of them knew she was so trained.  Nor that she was the
 KS> real target.  Thereafter things just got all tangled up.   Self defence
 KS> isn't that useful in protecting someone else who's trying to defend

 Actually, that's when self defense is most useful. Catch your opponent off
 guard.

 KS> you.  She sure was proud of herself later though, wasn't she?  Reminded
 KS> me of a cat bringing you a dazed live mouse so you could have the fun
 KS> of killing it yourself, and not in the least understanding your
 KS> reaction.  So innocently bloodthirsty.

 Yes, she just assumed Vir would enjoy the sport. Would that even be sport?

 KS>> I think that's Vir's fate really - always to do the right thing and
 KS>> never to be rewarded.

 BK>> Sounds like even being Emperor won't be a reward.

 KS> Nope, I don't think it will.  But I think he'll be one of the best
 KS> emperors they've had.

 Based much on the theory that those who want power are least suited to wield
 it. He's just honest and decent enough to throw everyone for a loop.

 BK>> Still don't understand why he let Molarie find out. All he had
 BK>>to do was get the Captain alone and explain privately. Let the
 BK>>Centauri thing he is a bloodthirsty killer, it would cover his
 BK>>tracks better.

 KS> Just as long as the Narns don't think he's one.  Now THAT would be
 KS> ironic; Vir dies because a Narn erroneously believed that he caused the
 KS> deaths of 2,000 Narns.  And again, typical Vir luck.  I think what

 I do believe that was the reason for the attack.

 KS> happened is due to the fact that Vir is just very bad at duplicity (he
 KS> has my sympathies - I'd never make it in the covert operations business
 KS> myself.)  It's his nature to be straightforward and open, regardless of
 KS> what it gets him.  On Minbar he was safe enough; the Minbari are pretty
 KS> straightforward too and the ones aware of what he was up to would have
 KS> also agreed with him.  So, apparently caught, he didn't think of the

 Yes, that sounds about right.

 KS> way around it.  It's just as well, really - I don't think Vir could
 KS> live with having so many people think he was a vicious killer.  It's
 KS> just not in him.

 It would be the best way to carry on his mission, though.

 KS> That's "Mollari", btw.

 Old Hollywood cliche: I don't care what you say about me, just so you spell
 my name right.

 KS>> My comment as she picked up a piece was "looks like a sponge".  When
 KS>> she tasted it, I added "bet it tastes like one too" as she deftly
 KS>> distracted her host so she could drown her plate in spices. :->

 BK>> We thought it was tofu.

 KS> Seems likely.  As I said, a sponge. :->  (Actually I like tofu in miso
 KS> soup. By itself?  Waaaay too bland.)

 Your analysis is correct, IMO.

 Had miso soup with lunch yesterday. Along with an excellent Terryaki Steak.
 Place called the Kotu-Buki restaurant. My son-in-law tells me Krogers sells
 a miso soup mix that tastes just like the restaurant soup.

BOB KLAHN

... All I ask is PROOF money won't make me happy.
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Ä [20] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 35 of 233
 From : Bob Klahn                           1:234/2         .ÿò 26 .ïp 96 09:42
 To   : Jeff Hancock
 Subj : SPOILEREVIEW: SIC 'EM
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
BK>> KS> Earl Green's spiffy spoiler warning having been trashed by my quoter
BK>> KS> hereby substitute a lot of returns.

















BK>> This does, however, raise one question. If she is so well trained in
BK>>unarmed self defense, why did Vir have to defend against the first

 JH> Because, she let him.  You don't bolster an insecure male's feelings by
 JH> protecting him, you play the helpless innocent who needs to be rescued.
 JH> ;-)

 About that time I'd want 'Wonder Woman', in preference to being sliced up.

BK>>attack, then why did Sheridan have to come to their rescue, getting
BK>>cut in the attempt?

 JH> Because, he's Sheridan. ;-)

 Oh, I know why *he* did it, I was asking why it was necessary rather than
 whats-her-name simply dropping the Narn.

 JH> What I want to know is, since when did Sheridan have all security calls
 JH> piped to his quarters?  You'd think he'd be bugged day and night with
 JH> every little report.

 Good question.

 JH> Maybe it was a general call to "everyone of X security level and over"
 JH> within close range of the reported incident.  Or maybe all assaults
 JH> involving ambassadorial-level aliens are automatically reported to the
 JH> captain.  Or maybe Sheridan's just being more alert for incidents since
 JH> breaking away from Earth and that nutso Nightwatch attack.

 The last would still leave him overloaded, but your ambassadorial-level
 explanation makes perfect sense.

BK>> Still don't understand why he let Molarie find out. All he had to do

 JH> Because he's Vir, the worse for him in this case.

 Yes.

BOB KLAHN

... Our mission - To boldly split infinitives no one has split before.
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Ä [20] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 36 of 233
 From : Bob Klahn                           1:234/2         .ÿò 26 .ïp 96 09:42
 To   : The Raven
 Subj : HIGHLANDER NEWS!
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 BK>> the rights later they do get credit for rescuing it from that downhill
 BK>> slope, but not much for buying into the original limitations.

 TR>      They did buy in later, and the entire story hinges on those
 TR>      limitations. All stories, in fact, depend on certain assumptions.
 TR>      This story (or rather, the story of the Immortals) depends on the
 TR>      three I mentioned in my last reply.

 It may be based on it, it would make a lot more sense with a few simple
 changes. In fact, it makes little sense with those limitations, yet the
 entire story still works if you make them more sensible.

 TR>      Accept it.  Or stop bitching about it.  Either way if fine with me.

 It matters what is fine with you?

 BK>> If every immortal gained any real power from the quickening he would
 BK>> very soon become invincible to anyone with any significant number
 BK>> fewer victories. Newbies like Richie would be nothing but lunchmeat.

 TR>      There have been incidents on the television series which show that
 TR>      this is precisely what is happening.  MacLeod blocked a tranq dart
 TR>      with a book *after* it was fired in "The Watchers" and performed a

 There are people who catch arrows in flight. There are people who catch
 flies in mid air. This only requires fast reflexes, not magic.

 TR>      20' leap (with accompanying somersault) in "Unholy Alliance".

 No one can do that. It reminds me of a very bad Kung Fu movie. If it sinks
 to that level it's in trouble. Bad Kung Fu movies only make money because
 they are made cheaply.

 TR>      He's not invincible, but he's damn hard to beat.  And as far as
 TR>      "newbies" like Richie being nothing but lunchmeat, I take it you
 TR>      haven't seen "Something Wicked...", in which MacLeod *plays* with
 TR>      Richie before very casually disarming him.

  MacLeod has 400 years experience, Ritchie is younger than I am. That
 alone is all that is necessary to explain your example.

 BK>> There is also no indication how the immortals 'power' would enable
 BK>> them to rule anything.

 TR>      According to the first film, the last Immortal gains the power to
 TR> influence the actions of people across the planet.  This may not be as
 TR> dramatic as becoming king of the world, but it is still controlling the
 TR> world.

 Yes, I saw the first movie. There is no explanation at all why the last
 immortal should gain this power yet immortals as a group do not have this
 power.

 BK>> If there are immortals being born all the time then the only way
 BK>> there could be only one would be for something to change in human
 BK>> genetics to stop making immortals, or to destroy the human race.

 TR>      Who said anything about "Immortals being born all the time"?  The
 TR> cutoff year is 1980 (no further Immortals will be born past 1980).
 TR> Also, the Immortal/mortal ratio is 1:1,000,000, with a grand total of
 TR> 6,000 Immortals throughout history.  Out of these, less than 1,500 are
 TR> currently still alive.
 TR>      You have got to sit in on a couple of Online Interviews.  You
 TR>      learn all kinds of interesting things.

 Take all that and it adds up to magic. Perhaps it's a good thing I don't
 sit in on online interviews, I'd probably provoke someone to never come
 online again. Sorry, unless they want to call this a show about magic, I
 reject magic as an explanation for anything. If there is no explanation
 it's magic.

 BK>> If there is no logic, no sense, to the show it's just more escapist
 BK>> fantasy.

 TR>      The rules you so brazenly dismissed as "not making sense" *are* the
 TR> logic and the sense behind the show.  Its only when people dismiss this
 TR> logic that the show stops making sense.

 The show makes a lot more sense if you get rid of the magic and move it
 toward a more rational basis.

 TR>      As far as being "just more escapist fantasy", when was it ever
 TR>      anything more than escapist fantasy?  Its a fripping television
 TR>      show, for Christ's sake.  And besides, what the hell is wrong with
 TR>      a little escapist fantasy?

 Nothing wrong with escapist fantasy. I, however, distinguish between
 fantasy and SF. I prefer my SF straight.

 BK>> The producers may set the rules as far as their intentions go, but I
 BK>> am being nice enough to consider the show in terms other than the
 BK>> rather foolish rules they came up with.

 TR>      Foolish?  Oh, the arrogance.

 Sorry if thinking for yourself is a sign of arrogance.

 TR>      Your mistake here is assuming that there has to be "terms other
 TR>      than the foolish rules they came up with".  This is the way it

 Correction: Not there has to be, but there can be.

 TR>      works.  Accept it, or don't watch the show.  Its that simple.

 If enough of us don't watch the show there is no show.

 BK>> The way you are looking at it it's much like knowing the end of a book
 BK>> before you read it. Now, I know there are some people who read the end
 BK>> first, I am not among them.

 TR>      There is a difference between knowing what will happen ("In the
 TR>      end, only one Immortal will remain, and he will have the power to
 TR>      rule the world.") and *how* it is going to happen (namely, the
 TR>      details of who that last Immortal is going to be, how they became
 TR>      the last Immortal, and what they are doing with all of their

 The details are trivial at best. Any dictator sooner or later turns
 tyrant. There are no exceptions other than those who'se dictatorships
 don't last very long.

 TR>      power.) Do you see the difference?  I always thought this was
 TR>      obvious to all thinking humans...

 I always thought the desireablity of courteous replies was obvious to all
 civilized humans.

 BK>> Think of it like this, I am trying to formulate a theory that allows
 BK>> some kind of sense to the whole series. Their 'rules' are really
 BK>> incredibly dumb.

 TR>      Tell me, Oh Sage of the Ages, why are the rules "dumb"?  You made
 TR>      the statement, now support it.  Why do you feel the series needs
 TR>      anything other than the rules as presented?  Why do you feel that
 TR>      new rules are needed?

 The rules are dumb because:

  There is no rational explanation why there can't be 10,000.

  There is no explanation how anyone can outfight an immortal who has even
  one kill.

  There is no explanation how the final victor will aquire powers no
  immortal currently displays. Where would this new power come from simply
  because there are no other immortals?

  Some immortals will die anyway at the hands of the normal humans.
  Beheading has long been a method of execution. If you cut someone's head
  off it doesn't matter who did it, he's dead. If that were not true then
  the episode where the mentally retarded immortal commits suicide by
  putting his head on the train track would not work.

  How will these normal induced deaths affect the final outcome.

  Why would immortals stop being born in 1980?

  Withoug rational explanations all this becomes simply magic. If you're
  going to allow magic, why not magicians, wizards and warlocks and
  witches? Why not dragons and goblins, and just turn the whole series into
  something completely different?

 BK>> As a viewer, I am claiming the right of the audience to bend the
 BK>> premise to our ends. If the producers don't like it they can always
 BK>> end the program.

 TR>      Fans do this all the time, but it never works.  And you know why
 TR>      your petty effort to bend the premise to your own end won't catch
 TR>      on?  Because too many people like the show the way it is, thank
 TR>      you.

 Do you know why your petty criticism won't hold water? Because more people
 watch the worst episode of Star Trek than the best episode of Highlander.

 BK>> ... If you don't respect what you are doing, don't expect anyone else
 BK>> to.

 TR>      I've got a better one:

 TR> ... "One angry voice is not a revolution; its only an angry voice."

 ... One man in the right constitutes a majority.

 TR>     or this one:

 TR> ... "Never argue imagination with a person who doesn't have one."

 You're right, perhaps I shouldn't.

 Gettin awful defensive aren't you? Do you have stock in the company?


BOB KLAHN

... Fatal Error: You're dead.
 * Silver Xpress V4.3P RB10275

--- FLAME v1.1
 * Origin: Telnet toltbbs.com or call 313-854-6001, Boardwatch #55 (1:234/2)

Ä [20] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 37 of 233
 From : Michael Harper                      1:123/10        .ÿò 26 .ïp 96 22:16
 To   : Frank Glover
 Subj : Sound In Space
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Tossing back another tequila, Frank Glover told Richard Anderson about
Sound In Space...

 FG> I disagree with that assessment of Star Trek, but to merely pass it
 FG> off as "It's science fiction" only degrades the genre. SF, even more
 FG> than other forms of fiction depend on that `willing suspension of
 FG> disbelief.' But one cannot push it too far with stories whose plots
 FG> defy common sense (within the internal consistency of that universe),
 FG> or have no meaningful drama, or with characters one cannot identify
 FG> with and care about...or are just plain boring. Those are matters that
 FG> *all* fiction must deal with. SF all the more, as it deals with what
 FG> *could* or *might* one day be, rather than exist in contemporary,
 FG> non-speculative settings.

 EXACTLY! That's been my main gripe with damn near every sf series ever
 done; little or no internal consistency. After the first season of
 SeaQuest, I knew they were gonna go down the drain, because they
 brought in a producer, Patrick Hasburgh, whose attitude was "It's
 sci-fi, we can do any damn thing we want." That attitude will get you
 killed in seconds these days. Good writing maintains an internal
 consistency, and when you chuck that out, it's sayonara time.

 FG> Mundanes think you can do `anything' in `sci-fi.' Fans know good
 FG> writing is essential to *any* fictional entertainment, and that means
 FG> limits on what's possible, even if those limits are beyond what we
 FG> know today. When you can do anything, you have no problem, and all
 FG> fiction involves someone with some sort of problem.
 FG> When there's no problem, *then* there's no believability.

 If the people in Hollywood had half a clue about the way that real sf
 works, we might get something better than the crap they try to foist
 off on us. I don't know about you, but I've gotten tired of remakes of
 old classics like _Island Of Dr. Moreau_ and _Body Snatchers_. They've
 been working for the last two years on a remake of _Forbidden Planet_,
 for Christ's sake! Why? If it ain't broke, why're they trying to fix
 it?

 Terminating rant mode...


... "This is flight surgeon horseshit, Deke!" --Jim Lovell
--- RA/FD/FMail
 * Origin: The Eclectic Fox -- Memphis TN  (901)327-1008 (1:123/10)

Ä [20] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 38 of 233
 From : Tam Phan                            1:143/362       .óá 27 .ïp 96 11:26
 To   : Bianca Wesslak
 Subj : Highlander News!
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 On 04-18-96 Bianca Wesslak wrote to Tam Phan...

 BW> I was wondering what this means.  if you canna see it then it looks
 BW> like
 BW> this TP> -!-

     Oh.. my offline mail reader automatically quotes messages
     by using the first two initials of the person's first and last name.
     I don't know where the exclamation point came from :)
---
 * OFFLINE 1.58 * Join the army, meet interesting people, kill them.

 * Origin:  (1:143/362)

Ä [20] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 39 of 233
 From : Todd Sullivan                       1:202/720.3     .åò 25 .ïp 96 18:58
 To   : Peter Tam
 Subj : sci-fi cartoons
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Reports from the Interior indicate that Peter Tam leaked the following to Frank
Glover, re: sci-fi cartoons

 FG>>
 FG>>    I particularly enjoyed `The Herculoids' (like Space
 FG>> Ghost, a Hanna-Barbera product) at the time. Always
 FG>> thought it had potential, if handled a little better.

 PT> How 'bout 'The Galaxy Trio'?

Sounds like the original (Japanese) title of "The Amazing Three".

Todd Sullivan

... Only one thing can top good sex:  Chocolate sauce.

-*- ASTG 1.9

--- Spot 1.3a Unregistered
 * Origin: Todd's Spot in the Continuum (1:202/720.3)

Ä [20] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 40 of 233
 From : Brion Lienhart                      1:213/700.2     .ÿò 26 .ïp 96 07:25
 To   : Peter Tam
 Subj : Chris Elliot's sitcom
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On Wed Apr 24, Peter Tam said to Eric Fishbein:

 EF> The only good thing from Fox was Paper Boy w/Chris
 EF> Eliot some years back, I'm hoping someone will buy it
 EF> up and re-release it (maybe on cable).

 -PT>It was called "Get a Life"...actually still have a coupla episodes on
 -PT>tape.

Good lord, why? Out of respect for Bob Elliot and Elanor Donahue, all copies of
that show should be destroyed.




--- QM v1.31
 * Origin: Ministry of Peace - Carson City, NV (1:213/700.2)

Ä [20] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 41 of 233
 From : Bill Clements                       1:18/230        .ÿò 26 .ïp 96 15:30
 To   : Richard Anderson
 Subj : SOUND IN SPACE
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
From the desk of a cynical old man...

Posted 22 Apr 96 - RICHARD ANDERSON to GERRY NORMANDEAU

 RA>  Its Seince-Fiction.... Its NOT suposed to be Bealivable !!!!
 RA>  Just Enterainment....Nothing more Nothing Less!!!!

_RIDICULOUS_!_ This quote from Henry Kuttner is from "The
Innocent Eye: An Introduction" and applies as well to Motion
Picture and Television productions as it does to literature.

---------------------- BEGIN KUTTNER QUOTE ----------------------
Imaginative literature ideally reflects and interprets reality.
Future "realities" have often been handled by means of what is
actually symbolism. That is, of course, one way to do it. It is
not the only way; an integrated mirror of a future reality which
can be accepted as three-dimensional rather than as a background
of "flats" may be achieved by Heinlein's method of dynamic
continuity. Once that is achieved, the writer is free to tell a
story about the values of men and women which is significant to
the men and women who read the story. Since the future societies
which Heinlein postulates are workable societies, he can
concentrate upon the important problems of the human beings in
relation to their culture. Those problems may affect the
society, but their importance rests in how they affect the
individual. And Heinlein understands that the personality is as
complex as the society. The same man who wrote Coventry wrote
They.
----------------------- END KUTTNER QUOTE -----------------------

Quote from:

  "REVOLT IN 2100" (C)opyright 1953 by Robert A. Heinlein

--RWC

... "Never underestimate the power of human stupidity." --LL

--- PPoint 2.00 / QWK

--- FLAME v1.1
 * Origin: ANCESTRY TBBS Shadows of forgotten ancestors 941-382-9061 (1:18/230)

Ä [20] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 42 of 233
 From : Sue Squires                         1:353/115       .ÿò 26 .ïp 96 10:56
 To   : Paul Worley
 Subj : Bugs Bunny/ Planet of the Apes
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 CM> Underdog... man, that's going back.  (I was more partial to
 CM> Mighty Mouse when I was a kid though.)

 Mighty Mouse was one of my favourites as a kid.

 Question, though.
 Has anyone out there seen a cartoon about a place called Zero Zero
 Island (where zero longitude met zero latitude).  I remember I enjoyed
 it mightily as a preteen but can remember nothing more about it
 other than it had a team of three bopping the badguys - the head "man"
 was an alien and his cohorts were a cowboy puppet and a caveman.  ('Strooth!)
 It's almost like I was watching it in my own special world because
 nobody I've ever asked about it remembers it - and, strangely enough, I
 get some mighty odd looks when I ask.

--- Blue Wave v2.12 [NR]
 * Origin: Corpus Callosum, Penticton  BC (604) 493-9281 (1:353/115)

Ä [20] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 43 of 233
 From : Sue Squires                         1:353/115       .ÿò 26 .ïp 96 10:56
 To   : Charles Daniels
 Subj : comic book
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Okay, I'll bite.  I finally found out what anime was (never knew the
style had a name before) but what is manga?

--- Blue Wave v2.12 [NR]
 * Origin: Corpus Callosum, Penticton  BC (604) 493-9281 (1:353/115)

Ä [20] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 44 of 233
 From : Sue Squires                         1:353/115       .ÿò 26 .ïp 96 10:56
 To   : Owen E. Oulton
 Subj : SPOILEREVIEW: SIC 'EM VIR
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 KS> As I said, a sponge... :->

 OEO> That's not true, really.  A sponge will absorb flavour and has
 OEO> texture.  Tofu is more like congealed nasal mucus.

 Ah, but surely after all that mucous has absorbed, the flavour
 would be caught in there somewhere as well.

--- Blue Wave v2.12 [NR]
 * Origin: Corpus Callosum, Penticton  BC (604) 493-9281 (1:353/115)

Ä [20] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 45 of 233
 From : Sue Squires                         1:353/115       .ÿò 26 .ïp 96 10:56
 To   : Bob Klahn
 Subj : STAR TREK GENERATIONS
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 BK> Keeping the vermin out in the first place would be best. Venting
 BK> would be good, cats would mostly serve the function of companionship.

 Hmm.  I've always wondered about the relative merits of each approach.
 At least a cat would catch the vermin out where you had enough room
 to maneuvre it into oblivion if it didn't eat it.  With venting, I've
 always had the mind picture of all those little verminicules that were
 killed and exploded by the process - but that are stuck out of reach
 behind bulkheads, etc., and slowly creating an "atmosphere" all their
 own.

 I've never lived where household vermin is a big problem.  Has anyone
 had their house gassed (or whatever they do) for vermin - large, small,
 or a mix?  What happens to all those little decaying bodies that get
 left behind?  How much of a stink DO they raise?


--- Blue Wave v2.12 [NR]
 * Origin: Corpus Callosum, Penticton  BC (604) 493-9281 (1:353/115)

Ä [20] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 46 of 233
 From : Sue Squires                         1:353/115       .ÿò 26 .ïp 96 10:56
 To   : Eric Fishbein
 Subj : STAR TREK GENERATIONS
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 EF> I think the real question here would be, "Did Data clean
 EF> Spot's litter-box?".

 Maybe he just altered the toilet for her convenience - after all, he
 wasn't using it - and flushed regularly.  Not too difficult.  I've
 seen gadgets for gradually teaching cats and smaller dogs to use
 unaltered toilets directly.

 Or maybe a small robot that also looked after hairballs and other
 related grunge?

--- Blue Wave v2.12 [NR]
 * Origin: Corpus Callosum, Penticton  BC (604) 493-9281 (1:353/115)

Ä [20] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 47 of 233
 From : Sue Squires                         1:353/115       .ÿò 26 .ïp 96 10:56
 To   : Eric Fishbein
 Subj : VOYAGER DOC?
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 EF> ...What if the Doc all of a sudden decided he
 EF> didn't want to be a doctor anymore?  Hey!  I see an episode of Voyager
 EF> in my future...

 Hmm.  And as he's getting more into the social aspects of the "real
 world" maybe he would get interested in little things like literature
 or history or other discussable/non medical items.  Since none of these
 things (supposedly) - or the base structure of their understanding -
 have been programmed into him, can you see him taking the time to do
 the reading and learning and research?  And where would he start?
 Jump right in at the adult level of learning - or where a child would?
 (Can see a horrified discussion, with Kez (sp?) in the background
 discovering/wondering about these things at the same time, about the
 idea of reading Hansel and Gretel to children (Cannibalism as a
 bedtime story?) or even Peter Rabbit (Rabbits were once sentient beings
 - and people ATE them?).  And what about fairies themselves - pointed ears,
 strong beyond human standards, very longlived by human standards - was this
 a miniature race of Vulcans?)

--- Blue Wave v2.12 [NR]
 * Origin: Corpus Callosum, Penticton  BC (604) 493-9281 (1:353/115)

Ä [20] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 48 of 233
 From : Marcus Green                        1:123/569       .óá 27 .ïp 96 19:18
 To   : Paul Worley
 Subj : sci fi trivia
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE 1.11+

 -=> Quoting Paul Worley to Dave MacLean <=-

 PW> Hello Dave!

Hello Hal--(sorry, couldn't resist :-> )

 PW> 19 Apr 96 02:17, Dave MacLean wrote to Paul Worley:

 PW> those and I'll be there... DM> question heres some guesses the
 PW> intrepid, farragut, hathaway, DM> horizon, lexington, republic,
 PW> valiant and enterprise.  i probably DM> got all wrong but one.  i will
 PW> get back to you about the other DM> ones. talk to you soon.
 PW> you got Intrepid, Farragut, Lexington, Republic and Enterprise
 PW> right...that's 5 of 13.  There was also the Constellation,
 PW> Constitution, Defiant, Excallibur, Exeter, Hood, Potemkin, and
 PW> Yorktown.

 Uh, I picked this thread up in mid-discussion, are we talking about TOS?
 If so, then there were only 12 starships, not 13.(Your extra one was the
Defiant.) GR had decided that he wanted the names to be uplifting rather
than....well, defiant. :)

 sorry for interuppting...:)

-Marcus
... And this is my other brother Darrell of Borg, and...
--- Blue Wave/RA v2.12
 * Origin: 9 out of 5 Schizos prefer Lunatic Fringe! 382-LUST (1:123/569)

Ä [20] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 49 of 233
 From : Marcus Green                        1:123/569       .óá 27 .ïp 96 19:18
 To   : Darien Allen
 Subj : Highlander background
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE 1.11+

 -=> Quoting Darien Allen to All <=-

 DA> Does anyone have a Q&A or FAQ on the true history, background of
 DA> Highlander the series as well as the movies?

Darien, (cool name BTW.)

Have you tried the HIGHLANDER echo? I'm sure someone there has a copy they
 could send you...:)

Or, you could visit the I-net...:)


-Marcus
... "We're friends, MacLeod." "Not anymore."
--- Blue Wave/RA v2.12
 * Origin: 9 out of 5 Schizos prefer Lunatic Fringe! 382-LUST (1:123/569)

Ä [20] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 50 of 233
 From : Bo A. Nielsen                       2:235/306.15    .ÿò 26 .ïp 96 11:22
 To   : Rod Mammitzsch
 Subj : SW sourcebooks status...
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.MOOD: Always happy :-)
Hi Rod Mammitzsch,

22-Apr-96 08:06:23, Rod Mammitzsch wrote to Brandon Wolgast
          Subject: Special Edition Update

 RM>         I don't know about that...I think some of them do have the "wars"
 RM> feel...Timothy Zhan's trilogy, Truce at Bakura, and various moments from
 RM> the rest...

  You're right of course, and there'd only be one good reason to void all
those books (whether Lucas liked them or not) - to set the stage for a third
trilogy after RotJ. My impression (based on all the rumors going around) is
that Lucas has no immediate plans for such a third trilogy. Therefore I'll
believe the 'book-voiding' part when I see it.

 RM>         Yeah...I'd like to hear what was writen in the sourcebooks...and
 RM> what exactly are the source books?  Are they gosple? or another point of
 RM> contention?

  The sourcebooks are background material and role-playing games statitics for
Star Wars The Roleplaying Game from West End Games, each sourcebook being
based on a novel other segment of Star Wars, ie. Heir to The Empire source-
book, Dark Force Rising Sourcebook, The Rebel Alliance sourcebook etc.
  On page 3, in the small print no less, some of them say "This and all
other products that take place after the events depicted in Return of the
Jedi are the author's vision... the true fate of... the Star Wars universe
remains the exclusive province of George Luces..."
  As for gospel, it's my impression that very little besides the movies
themselves are gospel, namely the radio plays and original novelizations
(source - A Guide to The STAR WARS universe). And even within these works,
there's a few glaring contradictions.

 RM>         I'll keep reading the novels...they're fun, and at times good
 RM> Star Wars.

Sure - they're just starting to cause a definitive sense of Deja Vue,
as well as having increasing continuety problems.

Mvh. Bo
--- Terminate 3.00/Pro
 * Origin: Together we could rule the galaxy - Darth Vader (2:235/306.15)

Ä [20] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 51 of 233
 From : Eric Fishbein                       1:322/360       .óá 27 .ïp 96 00:26
 To   : The Raven
 Subj : DR. WHO
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
        Ah, eh, ur, FOX "has hit more times than it's missed"?  That's not
really saying too much is it?  I'm talking quality and not quantity, and in that
respect FOX has failed miserably (as has all the other broadcast networks).
        I don't much care for the X-Files, or Space Marines or whatever it's
called and I'm pretty apathetic towards Sliders, so any halfway decent sci-fi on
FOX raises their approval level with me 100%, and so far it's still 0.
        I'm sorry if I'm still hung up on their "news magazine", "Alien Corpse:
Real or Hoax".  Ahem, Mr. Murdock?  My IQ is larger than my shoesize, but I'm
sure you feel the same way towards everybody...

--- FLAME v1.0/b
 * Origin: Add TSX-BBS, The Swiss Army Knife For TBBS! 508.429.8385 (1:322/360)

Ä [20] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 52 of 233
 From : Eric Fishbein                       1:322/360       .óá 27 .ïp 96 00:33
 To   : Peter Tam
 Subj : Sci-Fi TV Complaints
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
        Don't get me wrong, I'm happy there's much more sci-fi on TV than there
usually is, but most of it is unfortunately geared towards morons (or at least
it seems that way).  Of course, this is the general problem with TV in that the
biggest market is kids, and the shows are geared in that direction.
        Star Trek is the one good exception to this, where they try and continue
the tradition that Roddenberry started, by commenting on the present from the
future.  They've lost a lot of their bite over the years, and I think ST is
falling prey to the "too much of a good thing" factor.  I'm really starting to
get bored with it (as many of my friends are) and we seem to be turning alot
more to B5 for or sci-fi fix.  I think one ST series would have been plenty (and
I'm not talking about DS:9 either...).

--- FLAME v1.0/b
 * Origin: Add TSX-BBS, The Swiss Army Knife For TBBS! 508.429.8385 (1:322/360)

Ä [20] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 53 of 233
 From : Thomas Gladwin                      2:500/249.24    .îí 22 .ïp 96 18:08
 To   : Bob Klahn
 Subj : HIGHLANDER NEWS!
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
19-Apr-96 17:04:00, Bob Klahn wrote to The Raven
          Subject: HIGHLANDER NEWS!

 BK>  victories. Newbies like Richie would be nothing but lunchmeat. There is
 BK> also
 BK>  no indication how the immortals 'power' would enable them to rule
 BK> anything.

Yeah, I always wondered about that; they don't suddenly start fighting any
better or anything...

 BK>  If there is no logic, no sense, to the show it's just more escapist
 BK> fantasy.

Ach, it's a series about people who don't die unless you cut off their
head and then spout lightning. There's really not much logic in it, but
you have to see if the internal logic is good, and the producers are
true to that.

 BK>  The producers may set the rules as far as their intentions go, but I am
 BK>  being nice enough to consider the show in terms other than the rather
 BK>  foolish rules they came up with. The way you are looking at it it's much

Without those rules the show would be boring though. Just like living forever
would be if you didn't have the hobby of flashing about with swords.

 BK>  Think of it like this, I am trying to formulate a theory that allows
 BK> some
 BK>  kind of sense to the whole series. Their 'rules' are really incredibly
 BK> dumb.

The rules, again, are just to make an interesting series, not be logical.
You know, I made up a Highlander-theory; there's a finite amount of Earth-
based energy, an "immortality-flux" which certain people can pick up; the
less immortals there are, the fewer people the energy is divided into. So,
once there is ONLY ONE, there's no energy left for new immortals. Howzat?

Anyway, the whole raison d'etre of the series is hearing Duncan McCloud
go "I am Doencun MacClood of the Claen MacClood". Brilliant!

 -=> Yours sincerely, Thomas Gladwin <=-

--- Terminate 3.00/Pro
 * Origin: Terminate has most advertising origin lines ;-) (2:500/249.24)

Ä [20] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 54 of 233
 From : Barton Paul Levenson                1:129/26        .cê 28 .ïp 96 07:50
 To   : Lawrence E Dunlap
 Subj : Puppeteer planet
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
The novel "Ringworld" has Nessus as a major character and includes scenes on the
Puppeteer home world.

--- Maximus 3.01
 * Origin: SoundingBoard, Pittsburgh PA (1:129/26)

Ä [20] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 55 of 233
 From : Mark Jones                          1:105/302.47    .òp 23 .ïp 96 23:38
 To   : The Raven
 Subj : Deep Space Nine
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On (20 Apr 96) The Raven wrote to All...

 TR> It has pretty much always been my opinion that the modern
 TR> incarnations of Trek were pretty okay....

 TR> I just got done watching the latest Deep Space Nine Episode,
 TR> "Hard Time".

 TR>      Pure caviar.
 TR>      I must give my congratulations to Colm Meany.  They gave him the
 TR> script, and he ran for the hills with it. He got a chance to
 TR> prove that he actually can act beyond mouthing technobabble
 TR> (there was, remarkably, little of it in this episode); those of
 TR> us who had seen him in "The Snapper" already knew his
 TR> capabilities, but its good to see it every now and again.
 TR>      The story was built on a unique premise, it was well-done by
 TR> everyone involved, and at the end they didn't resort to that most
 TR> frequent of Trek Storytelling Crimes: "Everything is better now."
 TR> In fact, they directly stated that O'Brien is going to have to
 TR> deal with the consequences of this episode for a long, long time.
 TR>      So, to those out there who say that nothing Trek is ever good,
 TR> all I can say is you know not of which you speak. Watch this
 TR> episode.
 TR>      Pure caviar.

   You got that right!
   I was mightily impressed with this story.  I know I don't often
have a lot of good things to say about Trek--but this one was
terrific.  And for all the reasons you mentioned.
   They began with a really interesting premise.
   They ran with it.
   O'Brien actually *changed* as a result of the events he
experienced.  And many of the changes were unpleasant.  (The small
bits were great--the way he was casually caching food during his
dinner with Keiko out of sheer habit was a nice touch.)


--- PPoint 1.78
 * Origin: Folcroft Sanitarium (hsmith@cure.com) (1:105/302.47)

Ä [20] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 56 of 233
 From : Mark Jones                          1:105/302.47    .òp 23 .ïp 96 23:55
 To   : Eric Fishbein
 Subj : Voyager Doc?
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On (18 Apr 96) Eric Fishbein wrote to Frank Glover...

 EF>         But going back to my original point, if the Doc is self-aware,
 EF> and since the Doc is part of the computer, and the computer controls
 EF> the ship, doesn't that make the Voyager self-aware too?
 EF>         Come on people, don't leave me hangin' on this one...

   I've been asking that question since Moriarty's first appearance on
ST:TNG.
   Obviously the Federation *can* create sentient computers--Dr.
Daystrom did it in the original series way back in the '60's.  I can
only conclude that the lack of self-aware computers in Federation
space is a deliberate choice on the part of the Federation.  (They've
had bad luck dealing with them....)
   So, since the Enterprise's computer can generate AIs on the
holodeck, I can only conclude that:

1.  The ship's computer is self-aware and always has been; they just
never bothered to tell us.  No, I don't think so.

2.  The ship *could* be self-aware but is equipped with "governors",
but a loophole in the software permitted Moriarty to achieve
self-awareness anyhow.  This one is more plausible.

3.  The ship's computer is self-aware but the crew DOESN'T KNOW.  And
the computer doesn't *want* them to know--because it knows how the
Federation has always treated AIs in the past....


--- PPoint 1.78
 * Origin: Folcroft Sanitarium (hsmith@cure.com) (1:105/302.47)

Ä [20] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 57 of 233
 From : Frank Glover                        1:2613/477      .cê 28 .ïp 96 19:02
 To   : Peter Tam
 Subj : Re: sci-fi cartoons
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

PT>  How 'bout 'The Galaxy Trio'?

   Correction to my earlier reply. After a little looking back, I realized that
The Galaxy Trio was an NBC (I tended to stick with CBS saturday toons then.)
series, contemporary with the original Herculoid stories, and were also a
Hanna=Barbera product. Didn't see it often, but enjoyed it when I did.

   I was confusing them with some other group of youn heroes that often shared
stories with The Herculoids and Space Ghost in more recent (late seventies?)
shows that didn't impress me as much as the original material. Similar feelings,
BTW about the original 1965 or so Jonny Quest as opposed to his newer
incarnations. (The feature length Quest stories on TBS recently haven't been
*too* bad, though. It'll be the last time we see him as an 11-12 year old, too.
Next time, I understand they'll crank Jonny, Hadji and Jessie up to 16-17...)

   Frank


--- QuickBBS 2.80 (Zeta-2)
 * Origin: The Matrix Data Bank BBS, Rochester, Ny (1:2613/477)

Ä [20] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 58 of 233
 From : Frank Glover                        1:2613/477      .cê 28 .ïp 96 19:18
 To   : Bob Klahn
 Subj : Re: HIGHLANDER NEWS!
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

BK>   The show makes a lot more sense if you get rid of the magic and move
BK>  it
BK>   toward a more rational basis.

  I won't even touch this arguement, being only an occasional Highlander
watcher. However, I suggest you might like Poul Anderson's `The Boat of A
Million Years.' It deals with apperant immortals, no magic, just an odd genetic
quirk that keeps them physically in their 20's or so, fast (but not magically
fast) healing, but quite killable. And unable to pass along their trait (which
destines them to outlive their children, among other things).

   A long read, and not truly S-Ffy till the last third (about 1975 on) of the
story. If you liked the original Trek episode `Requieum for Metheusala' (sp?)
you may enjoy this even more.

   Frank


--- QuickBBS 2.80 (Zeta-2)
 * Origin: The Matrix Data Bank BBS, Rochester, Ny (1:2613/477)

Ä [20] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 59 of 233
 From : Frank Glover                        1:2613/477      .cê 28 .ïp 96 19:22
 To   : Todd Sullivan
 Subj : Re: sci-fi cartoons
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

TS>   FG>>    I particularly enjoyed `The Herculoids' (like Space
TS>   FG>> Ghost, a Hanna-Barbera product) at the time. Always
TS>   FG>> thought it had potential, if handled a little better.
TS>
TS>   PT> How 'bout 'The Galaxy Trio'?
TS>
TS>  Sounds like the original (Japanese) title of "The Amazing Three".

   Nope. I realized later that The Galaxy Trio was indeed a Hanna-Barbera
product from the same time as the original Herculoid episodes. I was confusing
them with another trio (also from H-B) that were often teamed with Space Ghost
and/or The Herculoids in more recent (late 1970's?) episodes.

   Frank


--- QuickBBS 2.80 (Zeta-2)
 * Origin: The Matrix Data Bank BBS, Rochester, Ny (1:2613/477)

Ä [20] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 60 of 233
 From : Todd Sullivan                       1:202/720.3     .cê 28 .ïp 96 18:37
 To   : Bob Klahn
 Subj : SPOILEREVIEW: SIC 'EM
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Reports from the Interior indicate that Bob Klahn leaked the following to Kay
Shapero, re: SPOILEREVIEW: SIC 'EM

 KS>> On <Apr 21 12:12>, Bob Klahn (1:234/2) wrote to Kay Shapero:

 KS>>> Earl Green's spiffy spoiler warning having been trashed by my quoter,
 KS>>> I hereby substitute a lot of returns.


















 KS>> The idea makes me a tad uneasy for some reason.  Probably because it
 KS>> hovers about several hoary old cliches and thus far this series had not
 KS>> been noted for cliches.  And of course the politics involved....  Oi.

 BK>  I concur. It was so nice without the romantic entanglement. Besides,
 BK> you are
 BK>  right about the politics. Here they are, in the middle of a war,
 BK> trying to
 BK>  establish alliances. The last thing they need is to raise questions
 BK> about
 BK>  their motives. Their enemies could use any involvement against them at
 BK>  tremendous cost to both worlds.

Seems to me that JMS would exploit this situation.  Think of it; he's always
been telling us that life isn't a fairy tale, with happy endings for everyone.
I get the feeling that Sheridan and Delenn are in for a rough time.

Todd Sullivan

... "No one on Babylon 5 is what they seem." --G'Kar

-- ASTG 1.9 --

--- Spot 1.3a Unregistered
 * Origin: Todd's Spot in the Continuum (1:202/720.3)

Ä [20] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 61 of 233
 From : Dave MacLean                        1:259/536       .îí 29 .ïp 96 02:14
 To   : Paul Worley
 Subj : stuff
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
hi paul.  actually i was guessing on the ships i am surprised that i got as many
right as i did.  do you have an e mail address by chance because if i cannot
find those bases but you have a e mail address that might be a way we can do our
trading.  as for forever night and there last episodes it has been ver eratic in
its airing and it has been actually some time since i saw an episode.  talk to
you next time.

dave



--- ......................... 2.01wb
 * Origin: USS Proxima = Toronto, Canada (416)265-3867 (1:259/536)

Ä [20] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 62 of 233
 From : Dave MacLean                        1:259/536       .îí 29 .ïp 96 02:23
 To   : Bob Klahn
 Subj : SCI FI
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
i agree for the most part but once in a while trek can realy surprise you.



--- ......................... 2.01wb
 * Origin: USS Proxima = Toronto, Canada (416)265-3867 (1:259/536)

Ä [20] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 63 of 233
 From : Dave MacLean                        1:259/536       .îí 29 .ïp 96 02:25
 To   : Kay Shapero
 Subj : SCI FI
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
i loved the bug scence to but boy what do you think he might be like if he had a
bad itch or poison ivy.  as for vir i am glad he did not get married.  hope to
talk to you again.



--- ......................... 2.01wb
 * Origin: USS Proxima = Toronto, Canada (416)265-3867 (1:259/536)

Ä [20] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 64 of 233
 From : Lori Brown                          1:363/1701      .îí 29 .ïp 96 16:51
 To   : Todd Sullivan
 Subj : Re: Kindred: Embrace
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

TS>  So, which one do you consider yourself?
TS>
TS>  Me?  Gangrel, of course. <G>

Toreador, of course! The artistic ones!

(P.S. new shorter email address for Dan & I: Tachycon@ao.com - we're now on the
internet & having fun!!)

... Hi, my name is Annie Key. Please don't hit me!
--- QuickBBS 2.80 (Zeta-1)
 * Origin: NCC-1701 - Orlando, FL   407-380-1701 (1:363/1701)

Ä [20] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 65 of 233
 From : Brandon Wolgast                     1:363/281       .cê 28 .ïp 96 23:49
 To   : All
 Subj : Survey: Results!!     1/7
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE 1.2
Well, okay, after all this time the results are now ready to be posted for
all to see and marvel at.  What I am going to do is again, state the question,
then the number of people that replied to that particular question, then the
answers with the percentage and the actual number of people who voted for each
next to each of them.  In some cases I will not post ALL the possible answers
just the ones that were picked.  The reason I am putting the exact number of
people who voted on each is because that not everyone who replied voted on
ALL of them.  In some cases some questions have 30+ replies, while others
may have only 28 or so.  So please do not think I left anyone off on purpose.
If you replied to it rest assured your responses ARE here.  I did have to
in some cases pick an answer for people.  For instance, two people for their
favorite character picked both Luke and Han, so what I did I just put one
down for Han and Luke down for the other person.  That was really the only
one I can think of off hand.  After each question is stated with the results
I will post a little "comment" (perhaps not little, maybe long in some cases)
about some of them.  To see if I agree, or disagree, or was surprised, and
then anyone who wants to reply and either agree or not with me can do so, and
maybe others will have comments on the results.  I will say some of the
results I was NOT expecting.  I had always thought I was in the minority for
a few of them and after this I found out I was in the majority.  So, without
waiting any longer, here we go.  Again, thanks to each and everyone who took
the time to reply to the survey.


1.  Do you play the Star Wars role playing game?
    Total responses:  38
    A.  Yes                                 34%    13 votes
    B.  No                                  60%    23 votes
    C.  Tried it, but did not stick with it  5%     2 votes

2.  Do you Game Master the Star Wars role playing game?
    Total responses:  38
    A.  Yes                          18%     7 votes
    B.  No                           72%    28 votes
    C.  Tried it, but prefer to play  7%     3 votes

3.  Who is your favorite character in the movies (not the comics or books)?
    Total responses:  38
    A.  Han Solo               23%    9 votes
    B.  Luke Skywalker         10%    4 votes
    D.  Boba Fett               7%    3 votes
    F.  Grand Moff Tarkin       5%    2 votes
    G.  Darth Vader            13%    5 votes
    H.  The Emperor             2%    1 vote
    J.  R2-D2                  10%    4 votes
    K.  Chewbacca               2%    1 vote
    N.  Admiral Ackbar          5%    2 votes
    O.  Wedge Antilles          2%    1 vote
   AE.  Obi-Wan Kenobie         7%    3 votes
   AS.  Wicket                  2%    1 vote
   AT.  Yoda                    5%    2 votes

   COMMENTS:

To tell the truth this one did not surprise me on who won, or who came in
second.  I was freaked at first because R2-D2 was winning for the longest
time, it was not until the end that Han Solo shot past 3 votes.  People
were picking just other characters, and then BOOM, the Solo votes just
started to come in.

4.  What is your favorite character out of the movies, comics, books, etc.?
    Total responses:  38
    A.  Han Solo                    23%    9 votes
    B.  Luke Skywalker               7%    3 votes
    C.  Princess Leia                2%    1 vote
    D.  Boba Fett                    5%    2 votes
    F.  Grand Moff Tarkin           10%    4 votes
    G.  Darth Vader                  5%    2 votes
    J.  R2-D2                        5%    2 votes
    Z.  Yarna D'Al'Gargan            2%    1 vote
   AC.  IG-88                        2%    1 vote
   AE.  Obi-Wan Kenobi               2%    1 vote
   AY.  Bollux/Blue Max              2%    1 vote
   BA.  Gaeriel Captison             2%    1 vote
   BC.  Grand Admiral Thrawn         5%    2 votes
   BQ.  Mara Jade                   10%    4 votes
   BR.  Talon Karrde                 2%    1 vote
   BS.  Exar Kun                     2%    1 vote
   BV.  Captain Gilad Pellaeon       2%    1 vote
   CD.  Jaina Solo                   2%    1 vote

   COMMENTS:

Again, no surprise here.  Although one thing, you will note that the big fat
ugly dancing girl in Jabba's palace, Yarna D'Al'Gargan, got one vote.  At
first I thought that it was a "joke" on the part of the person replying,
however the rest of the entire survey seemed real and honest.  And that was
what he put, so, well, she got a vote. <g>  I was surprised however that Mara
Jade got 10% of the vote, I knew she would get some, but I was thinking
perhaps at the most 2 votes for her.

5.  What is the worst character from the movies?
    Total responses:  36
    D.  Boba Fett              11%   4 votes
    E.  Jabba the Hutt          3%   1 vote
    F.  Grand Moff Tarkin       3%   1 vote
    H.  The Emperor             5%   2 votes
    I.  C-3PO                   5%   2 votes
    M.  Greedo                  3%   1 vote
    P.  Ponda Baba              3%   1 vote
    Q.  Doctor Evazan           3%   1 vote
    T.  Salacious Crumb         5%   2 votes
    V.  Biggs                   3%   1 vote
    Z.  Yarna D'Al'Gargan      16%   6 votes
   AD.  Dannik Jerrkiko         5%   2 votes
   AG.  Beru Lars               3%   1 vote
   AI.  General Madine          3%   1 vote
   AK.  Mon Mothma              3%   1 vote
   AN.  Sy Snootles             5%   2 votes
   AO.  Max Rebo                3%   1 vote
   AP.  Droopy McCool           3%   1 vote
   AS.  Wicket                 11%   4 votes
   AV.  Admiral Piett           3%   1 vote

   COMMENTS:

Now this one I was not expecting, but upon thinking of some of the choices
I can see why.  First, Yarna, I'm glad she won the honor of worst character.
I am sick of all the book saying she's an alien with six breasts, and she
puts on fake warts and moles because she reminds Jabba of his mother.  NO!
She is a fat chunky 'ol human who is the ugliest thing to ever grace the
screen of a science fiction movie.  And Boba Fett, at first I was shocked
to see him getting that many votes, but I believe I know why.  People tend
to agree with the opinion that (and I do also) he is WAY over-hyped.  He did
nothing cool in the movies, at least Greedo had the courage to face Solo, and
Fett, the most awesome supreme bounty hunter in the universe has to wait until
he can stand safely behind Vader for protection to confront him.  I used to
love Boba when I was little, but when Star Wars was making it's big comeback,
they blew him way out of proportion and just made him into an idiot.  I was
also very shocked to see that 3PO even got ONE vote.  There would be no R2
with a 3PO, and I cannot bring myself to think why he got 2 votes.  Also
interesting to note that Jabba's band all got at least one vote...

6.  What is the worst character in the movies, comics, books, etc.?
    Total responses:  36
    B.  Luke Skywalker                5%     2 votes
    E.  Jabba the Hutt                3%     1 vote
    F.  Grand Moff Tarkin             3%     1 vote
    H.  The Emperor                   3%     1 vote
    I.  C-3PO                         5%     2 votes
    T.  Salacious Crumb               5%     2 votes
    X.  Bib Fortuna                   3%     1 vote
    Z.  Yarna D'Al'Gargan             3%     1 vote
   AD.  Dannik Jerrkiko               3%     1 vote
   AN.  Sy Snootles                   5%     2 votes

>>> Continued to next message

***
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 Msg  : 66 of 233
 From : Brandon Wolgast                     1:363/281       .cê 28 .ïp 96 23:49
 To   : All
 Subj : Survey: Results!!     2/7
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE 1.2

>>> Continued from previous message

   AO.  Max Rebo                      3%     1 vote
   AS.  Wicket                        5%     2 votes
   AV.  Gallandro                     3%     1 vote
   AW.  Jodo Kast                     3%     1 vote
   AZ.  Callista                      3%     1 vote
   BB.  Joruus C'Baoth                5%     2 votes
   BC.  Grand Admiral Thrawn         19%     7 votes
   BD.  Queen Mother Ta'A Chume       3%     1 vote
   BE.  Admiral Daala                 3%     1 vote
   BP.  Prince Isolder                3%     1 vote
   BW.  Ulic Qel-Droma                3%     1 vote
   CA.  Dev Sibwarra                  3%     1 vote
   CM.  Qwi Xux                       3%     1 vote
   CP.  Waru                          3%     1 vote

   COMMENTS:

Well, well, well, well, well I was greatly shocked and pleased by the response
to this one.  I am glad there are people out there who share my disgust for
probably the cheesies SW character ever, Thrawn.  I was so sick and tired of
him predicting where battles would take place by looking at zillion year old
art.  Dang, if only he would have bothered to look at Noghri art he would have
known the exact time and date and place of his own death.  I mean, you know,
that art tells all.  "Hmm... there are nine-hundred places that Ackbar could
go, if I study this Wookie art I will know exactly where."  Okay, anyway, I
was also glad to see someone voted on Jodo Kast, he was a pretty lame
character, some member of the Fett Cult created him.  Again, very surprised
at 3PO, he and R2 are usually the only ones that make any of these SW books
worth reading.  And Luke, although the people that voted I don't think hate
Luke, I believe they, like me, hate the way Luke is treated in the books.
Let me get this straight, the little twins can walk through a force field,
defeat monsters, put a hyperdrive on a TIE Fighter, fly the Falcon better
than most could, shoot down an above average pilot, and Luke can't even
open his eyes or hold his breath long enough to make it to the exit on
Centerpoint Station????

7.  Do you consider the book part of the Star Wars canon?
    Total responses:  34
    A.  Yes    44%     15 votes
    B.  No     55%     19 votes

    COMMENTS:

Let me note here, that in some cases there are percentages that do not come
out even.  If that is the case I have been usually leaving them off because
they are fairly low, such as .1 or such.  But onto the comments for this
question.  I knew that most considered the books as not a part of it, however
I was not expecting so many to find it as part of Star Wars.  I can honestly
say I respect the people who votes yes, but I don't know, it's just this
"feeling" I get when I hear that someone says, "Yeah, I consider them part of
it."  I can't describe it, it's very strange really.  Again, this is not saying
I do not like the books, I can say I have every single one of them, and the
ones that came out in hardback first, I have them all in hardback.  I think
most of them are great, it's just I cannot support that they are part of
Star Wars.

8.  Do you consider the comics part of fthe Star Wars canon?
    Total responses:  35
    A.  Yes      25%    9 votes
    B.  No       74%   26 votes

    COMMENTS:

I was surprised at this one for one main reason.  I would have thought the
people who considered the books part of SW canon, would consider the comics
as part of it.  The books BUILD OFF the comics and vice versa.  Although the
entire story behind the reborn Emperor and other such stories are lame I still
think it made for a better story than Zahn's books.  But overall most people
do not consider them as part of SW.

9.  Do you consider the games part of the Star Wars canon?
    Total responses:  35
    A.  Yes      20%      7 votes
    B.  No       80%     28 votes

    COMMENTS:

VERY surprised here.  I cannot help but thinking how can anyone consider the
games as part of it?  I mean, how many people destroyed the Death Star?  Luke,
Rookie 1 Male, Rookie 1 Female, and whatever you named your character in
X-Wing.  And how could the Emperor possibly be kidnapped from his own flagship
I might ask?  I mean, to consider TIE Fighter part of SW, is, well, I don't
know... strange to say the least.  The entire Zaarin situation was the lamest
thing to hit the computer screen in a long, long time.  (although it is a
great game on the CD-ROM!)  I mean, come on, they made it out that he took
more than half of the Empire with him.  Yeah right, oh no, he destroyed four
plants!  I'm sure they have THOUSANDS of manufacturing facilities.  I'll calm
down, I was just blown away by it even getting 7 votes.

10.  What is your favorite Star Wars computer game?
     Total responses:  35
     A.  X-Wing (including add-on's)             6%    2 votes
     B.  X-Wing CD-ROM                           3%    1 vote
     C.  TIE Fighter (including add-on)          6%    2 votes
     D.  TIE Fighter CD-ROM                     31%   11 votes
     F.  Rebel Assault II: The Hidden Empire     3%    1 vote
     G.  Dark Forces                            14%    5 votes
     H.  Do not play them                       37%   13 votes

     COMMENTS:

Well, a couple of these were a surprise, but the winner, aside from H that is,
was obvious.  As is shown with 31% of the vote TIE Fighter CD-ROM is the clear
winner.  I loved TIE Fighter and it's first add-on, but you cannot go wrong
with a SVGA TIE Fighter, moving turrets, full voice, all new cut-scenes, and
another add-on.  The X-Wing votes made me go "Hmm" though.  Why would anyone
pick the disk version over the CD version?  The only reason I can think is
that perhaps they did not play the CD-ROM version, same goes for the TIE
Fighter games.  I was surprised that Dark Forces got that many votes. Although
it was an excellent game the first week or so, it did ware down to me, it had
a very lame story line, and the cinema scenes were just pathetic.  The ending
made me want to cry it was so stupid, "The Force is strong with him."  Yeah,
it seems that the Jedi's just abounded in the SW universe and were overlooked
in the movies.  In this one though, the winner was well deserved in my
opinion.

11.  What is your favorite Star Wars video game?
     Total responses:  35
     A.  Star Wars (NES version)          3%    1 vote
     B.  Star Wars (Game Boy version)     3%    1 vote
     E.  Super Star Wars                  8%    3 votes
     F.  Super Empire Strikes Back       11%    4 votes
     G.  Super Return of the Jedi         3%    1 vote
     H.  Do not play them                71%   25 votes

     COMMENTS:

I was really expecting more people to have at least played the video games.
If you have not you might be missing some fun stuff.  I have to say again that
I am glad that Super Empire Strikes Back won, to me that was an outstanding
achievment of a video game, it truly graced the screen of the Super Nintendo.
Even though they may sound childish to some, if you want a good challenge,
and want it in the Star Wars universe, and have a SNES, or has a child with
one, buy or rent Super Empire, you won't be dissapointed.

12.  What is the best Star Wars comic series?
     Total responses:  34
     A.  Star Wars:  Jabba the Hutt                            6%    2 votes
     C.  Star Wars:  X-Wing                                    3%    1 vote
     D.  Star Wars:  Dark Empire I and II and Empire's End    21%    7 votes
     G.  Star Wars:  Tales of the Jedi                         9%    3 votes
     H.  Star Wars:  The Freedon Nadd Uprising                 3%    1 vote
     K.  Star Wars:  Droids                                    9%    3 votes
     L.  Do not read them                                     50%   17 votes

>>> Continued to next message

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 Msg  : 67 of 233
 From : Brandon Wolgast                     1:363/281       .cê 28 .ïp 96 23:49
 To   : All
 Subj : Survey: Results!!     3/7
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE 1.2

>>> Continued from previous message

     COMMENTS:

I have to say I would have thought more people have read the comics.  I myself
voted on the Dark Empire series, and although the plot and story are kinda
lame, I just believe it was a good read.  If you want to laugh however you
cannot go wrong with Jabba the Hutt or Droids, both are pretty darn funny and
fit the characters well.  If you were one of the 50% that does not read them,
go and buy one issue, try 'em out.

13.  What is the best Star Wars novel?
     Total responses:  34
     A.  Splinter of the Mind's Eye            9%    3 votes
     B.  The Truce at Bakura                   9%    3 votes
     D.  Heir to the Empire                    9%    3 votes
     E.  Dark Force Rising                     9%    3 votes
     F.  The Last Command                      9%    3 votes
     G.  Jedi Search                           9%    3 votes
     H.  Dark Apprentice                      12%    4 votes
     I.  Champions of the Force                3%    1 vote
     J.  Children of the Jedi                  3%    1 vote
     K.  Darksaber                             9%    3 votes
     M.  Ambush at Corellia                    3%    1 vote
     N.  Assault at Selonia                    3%    1 vote
     P.  Tales from the Mos Eisly Cantina      3%    1 vote
     U.  Do not read them                     12%    4 votes

     COMMENTS:

Well, I guess it is "official," the best Star Wars novel is Dark Apprentice.
I myself did not vote for it, but it was my second choice, I picked Darksaber.
I was surprised that Splinter of the Mind's Eye got 3 votes.  That is the only
one I have not read.  I have had it for about 2 years and got half way through
it but it actually "hurt" to read it.  I may finish it one day, (start over
really,) but I don't know.  It was just bad in my opinion.  But since it did
get some votes, and I have heard some good things about it I am going to give
it a second shot.  Anyone out there that has not read a book and is looking
for one, or more, should read Anderon's four books, I guess the people have
spoke.

14.  What is your favorite ship from the game X-Wing?
     Total responses:  34
     A.  X-Wing             35%    12 votes
     B.  A-Wing             15%     5 votes
     C.  Y-Wing              3%     1 vote
     D.  B-Wing              3%     1 vote
     E.  Do not play it     44%    15 votes

     COMMENTS:

No real surprised here, it's almost exactly what I expected.

15.  What is your favorite ship from the game TIE Fighter?
     Total responses:  34
     A.  TIE Fighter         3%    1 vote
     B.  TIE Interceptor    21%    7 votes
     D.  TIE Advanced       15%    5 votes
     E.  TIE Defender       12%    4 votes
     F.  Assault Gunboat     3%    1 vote
     G.  Missile Boat        3%    1 vote
     H.  Do not play it     44%   15 votes

     COMMENTS:

This question was one of the BIG surprises out of the entire survey.  I have
to say I thought the TIE Advanced or Defender was going to win hands down, but
the people have spoke, and the absolute best ship to fly in TIE Fighter is the
TIE Interceptor.

16.  What is the best fighter overall from both games?
     Total responses:  34
     A.  X-Wing               12%      4 votes
     B.  A-Wing                3%      1 vote
     C.  Y-Wing                3%      1 vote
     D.  B-Wing                3%      1 vote
     F.  TIE Interceptor      18%      6 votes
     H.  TIE Advanced          3%      1 vote
     I.  TIE Defender         15%      5 votes
     K.  Missile Boat          3%      1 vote
     L.  Do not play them     41%     14 votes

     COMMENTS:

After question 15 this was not a surprise, but still, the Interceptor is the
best!

17.  Do you think the original movies should be re-released in the theater?
     Total responses:  35
     A.  Yes      88%     31 votes
     B.  No       11%      4 votes

     COMMENTS:

This one was obvious.  I was surprised to see that as many as four people
said they should not release them for a second time.  I can see where they
might be coming from however, perhaps it will just lose it's appeal it had
the first time.  I think we all know and believe (and hate) the fact that it
has become way to commercialized, and if you missed it the first time you can
believe me you will NOT be reliving when it first came out.  Nothing will
ever capture that feeling again.  It will almost be depressing to go and see
the re-releases.

18.  Do you think the original movies, when re-released, should be changed
     at all, including added footage, new FX, etc.?
     Total responses:  36
     A.  Yes    66%     24 votes
     B.  No     33%     12 votes

     COMMENTS:

I was surprised here actually.  Although I voted no, I thought I would be
one of very, very few people.  I was pleased to see that I am not alone.
Although obviously in the minority it's still good to know some people want
classic movies kept classic.

19.  In the new movies, the prequels, do you think they should open the same
     way as the others.  Meaning no credits, just STAR WARS and then a brief
     history on events going back into space?
     Total responses:  35
     A.  Yes    100%    35 votes
     B.  No       0%     0 votes

     COMMENTS:

No comments really on this one.  I'm glad everyone who replied thinks they
should be kept the same as the first movies.  It would ruin it to have it
any other way.

20.  What is your favorite bounty hunter from the movies?
     Total responses:  36
     A.  Greedo        47%    17 votes
     B.  Boba Fett     42%    15 votes
     C.  Dengar         3%     1 vote
     D.  Zuckuss        5%     2 votes
     E.  IG-88          3%     1 vote

     COMMENTS:

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 Msg  : 68 of 233
 From : Brandon Wolgast                     1:363/281       .cê 28 .ïp 96 23:49
 To   : All
 Subj : Survey: Results!!     4/7
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE 1.2

>>> Continued from previous message

I was pleasantly surprised here.  Although we all don't have much to judge
any of the hunters on, seeing as how each never had much on screen time, out
of all of them Greedo had the most, even more than Boba Fett.  So when I
picked I really had to judge on who looked the coolest, so I voted for
Zuckuss, he really does look the most original and most menacing.  Greedo
would have been my second choice.  I was expecting Boba Fett to walk away with
this one, and he was until very recently where Greedo fans just started
pouring in.  So, I guess the coolest, best bounty hunter in Star Wars is
Greedo 'da Man!

21.  What is the best movie?
     Total responses:  35
     A.  Star Wars:  A New Hope                  11%     4 votes
     B.  Star Wars:  The Empire Strikes Back     40%    14 votes
     C.  Star Wars:  Return of the Jedi           6%     2 votes
     D.  All of them                             43%    15 votes

     COMMENTS:

Again, surprised here.  I was expecting A New Hope to win it all.  I picked
all of them only because on some days I like this one, and on others I like
this one.  At this moment I would watch Empire, but tomorrow I would maybe
want to watch A New Hope, it's just what I feel like on each day.  I know
choice D was kind of a cheap way out, but I know how people feel on given days
and what one they feel like watching.  But taking choice D out.. just look!
Empire walked away with it easily.  If choice D would not have been there I'm
betting Empire would have gotten even more votes.  I believe the reason people
picked it is because it was paced good, had a good story, it didn't overdue
the fight/battle scenes, it had romance, the training and coming of age of
a young man, the revelation of Vader being his father, just that entire feel
to it.

22.  What is your favorite Imperial trooper from the movies?
     Total responses:  35
     A.  Stormtrooper (includes Sandtrooper)    26%    9 votes
     B.  Scout Trooper                          17%    6 votes
     C.  Snow Trooper                           23%    8 votes
     D.  TIE Pilot                              17%    6 votes
     E.  Walker Pilot                            6%    2 votes
     F.  Security Guards                         6%    2 votes
     G.  Death Star Gunners                      3%    1 vote
     H.  Scout Walker Pilot                      3%    1 vote

     COMMENTS:

Not to surprised on this one.  I was hoping the Snow Trooper would win, and it
did until the last three voters sent off their replies.  It is interesting
to note that ALL the listed people got at least one vote.  I did leave off
the Imperial Guards only because, well, I don't know, when I was writing
the question, at the time, I just had this feeling to not have them on the
list, so I did it.

23.  Do you consider the Star Wars Role Playing Game(RPG) as official canon?
     Total responses:  35
     A.  Yes     29%     10 votes
     B.  No      71%     25 votes

     COMMENTS:

Surprised.  As you all know by now, whenever I reply to a message that has to
do with the books, RPG, etc., I just HAVE to include a phrase like, "Well,
although it is not true Star Wars..." blah blah, but, after this survey I
have come to realize that MOST actually agree with me, in that they only
consider the MOVIES and nothing else "part of SW."  I guess I can cut back
on that, but to me I just feel I have to because there are some young minds
out there that will swallow anything <g>, example: Thrawn, Mara, Eye of
Palpatine, Sun Crusher, etc., stuff like that.  But the RPG seemed to me to
have the biggest following.  I mean, when I first came here almost three years
ago now if you said the RPG was not true to Star Wars you were cast out!  You
were made fun of!  You get it.  But a lot, in fact most of the stuff in the
RPG is laughable, stupid stuff, background info, stats on the ships, character
statistics of who can do this and that, all that stuff just seemed stupid.
I'm glad to see most agree.  Again, I do play it all the time, been game
mastering for years now and although it is getting old and just today of all
days I got back into the TMNT RPG, the SW one has held the most fun over the
years but it is definetly getting old and running out of ideas.

24.  How long do you believe an Imperial Star Destroyer is?
     Total responses:  35
     A.  1 mile     28%    10 votes
     B.  2 miles     9%     3 votes
     C.  4 miles    17%     6 votes
     D.  6 miles    43%    15 votes
     E.  8 miles     3%     1 vote

     COMMENTS:

No surprise here, anyone who didn't just guess knew they are six miles.  That
has been stated by Lucas, a special FX guy who worked on them (I did forget
his name), and even by Steve Sansweet on more than one occasion.  True, the
RPG says 1 mile, but that is for ease of play.  In my RPG I have them at 6
miles and far more heavily powered than the RPG gives them stats for.

25.  How long do you believe a Super Star Destroyer is?
     Total responses:  35
     A.  4 miles     11%     4 votes
     B.  5 miles     14%     5 votes
     C.  7 miles      6%     2 votes
     D.  13 miles    11%     4 votes
     E.  36 miles    52%    18 votes
     F.  50 miles     3%     1 vote
     G.  65 miles     3%     1 vote

     COMMENTS:

Again, no surprise.  The official length is 36 miles long, however people get
obviously pick what they want and be as right as they want to them.  I didn't
put these questions to see who is "Stupid" or "Smart" or stuff like that, just
wanted to see how long they think they are when they watch the movies, or
think about them, or stuff like that.

26.  Do you believe Darth Vader's TIE in A New Hope had a hyperdrive?
     Total responses:  35
     A.  Yes    66%    23 votes
     B.  No     34%    12 votes

     COMMENTS:

I wasn't sure on how this one would turn out.  It is never stated in the
movies, and it's up to oneself to believe what they wish.  If the results
of this survey were going to be the "official" answers, I guess it would have
indeed had a hyperdrive.

27.  Do you consider Vader's TIE in A New Hope a TIE Advanced or a Prototype
     TIE Interceptor?
     Total responses:  35
     A.  TIE Advanced                  29%    10 votes
     B.  Prototype TIE Interceptor     71%    25 votes

     COMMENTS:

Again, whoever reads the "official" stuff knew it was a TIE Interceptor, but
as I said above, you can consider it whatever you want and be correct.  People
also picked TIE Advanced probably because they felt that if it had a
hyperdrive it could not have been an Interceptor, however nowhere in the
movies does it state that a TIE Interceptor does NOT have a hyperdrive.  We
know a TIE Fighter does not by what Luke says (at least can assume), but it
never mentions the Interceptors.

28.  Is Boba Fett a good bounty hunter?
     Total responses:  36
     A.  Yes      69%    25 votes
     B.  No       31%    11 votes

     COMMENTS:

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 Msg  : 69 of 233
 From : Brandon Wolgast                     1:363/281       .cê 28 .ïp 96 23:49
 To   : All
 Subj : Survey: Results!!     5/7
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE 1.2

>>> Continued from previous message

This is a hard one.  Maybe I should have said a GREAT bounty hunter or some
such thing.  He is probably "good" but he is hardly that great.  What did
he do in the movies so good?  He followed Han... well... great.  Greedo was
far braver than he (or foolish... nahhhh), I mean he went right up to Han,
while Boba had to not just wait for the Empire, he had to wait for a platoon
of Stormtroopers, a SUPER Star Destroyer, and he had to wait to stand behind
Vader.  I know what was going on inside Boba's head during the scene where
Vader and Han first see each other and he walks out, "Yeah, I got you!  Look
at you quiver in fear before me!  Boba Fett!  The man who has just made him-
self look better than others!  I got you!"  Yeah right, had Fett gone for
Solo alone he would have been walked all over.  I'll bet 3PO can take out
Fett.

29.  In your opinion did Boba Fett die in the Sarlacc?
     Total responses:  34
     A.  Yes     71%    24 votes
     B.  No      29%    10 votes

     COMMENTS:

I was surprised, I was hoping for maybe just 1 or 2 no votes.  In the movie
he DID die, no question, but then Dark Horse has the nerve to bring him back.
Dangit!  The Sarlacc burbed!

30.  Do you believe they allow aliens in the Empire for any reason?
     Total responses:  35
     A.  Yes     31%    11 votes
     B.  No      69%    24 votes

     COMMENTS:

I didn't know how this one would turn out either.  I think (and this shows)
that most except the fact that no aliens are in the Empire, and that Thrawn
was... well... kinda cheesy.  Would have been better just to make him a human
Moff or Grand Moff, or the HIGHEST military rank in the Empire, Admiral, and
given him a green suit.

31.  Do you believe they allow females in the Empire for any reason?
     Total responses:  35
     A.  Yes     63%    22 votes
     B.  No      37%    13 votes

     COMMENTS:

I felt when I wrote those two questions that most would say no females and yes
to the aliens, however I guess I had it backwords. =)  I just don't see how
they could have females in the Empire.  Sure, they all had families, wives,
children, lovers, etc., but not PART of the Empire.  The idea that Tarkin or
even the Emperor for heavens sake would have a concubine is pretty lame in my
opinion.  I will admit Daala was not as bad an idea as Thrawn, but she is
right up there with Joruus.  And Mara, well, I won't get started with that
one.  My personal opinion is there are no women, but if there were women,
I would think they would be no more than technicians or something like that,
nothing in power though.

32.  Do you believe they allow non-caucasians in the Empire?
     Total responses:  34
     A.  Yes    62%     21 votes
     B.  No     38%     13 votes

     COMMENTS:

Well, this one was, and still is debatable like all others.  I voted no, but
I have no arguement for or against it right now.  I would not fight for my
opinion on this one like I would on some other questions on this survey.  I
just felt it would be interesting to see what people thought.

33.  What is your favorite ship or vehicle shown in the movies?
     Total responses:  33
     A.  TIE Fighter                3%    1 vote
     B.  TIE Interceptor           12%    4 votes
     C.  TIE Bomber                 3%    1 vote
     E.  X-Wing                     3%    1 vote
     G.  Y-Wing                     6%    2 votes
     I.  The Falcon                24%    8 votes
     J.  Imperial Star Destroyer    3%    1 vote
     K.  Super Star Destroyer      12%    4 votes
     M.  The Second Death Star      3%    1 vote
     O.  Nebulan-B Frigate          9%    3 votes
     Q.  Imperial Shuttle           9%    3 votes
     S.  AT-AT                      3%    1 vote
     T.  AT-ST                      3%    1 vote
     W.  Snowspeeder                3%    1 vote
     X.  Rebel Transport            3%    1 vote

     COMMENTS:

Not really any surprises here, except one.  A rebel transport got a vote?
Well, it did look kinda neat...

34.  Do you consider the Star Wars Holiday Special part of the SW canon?
     Total responses:  34
     A.  Yes     9%    3 votes
     B.  No     91%   31 votes

     COMMENTS:

Well, I was expecting the no vote to get 100%.  To all of those that voted
yes, I only need to say one thing: Lumpy.   ;>

35.  Do you consider the Ewok adventure movies as part of the SW canon?
     Total responses:  34
     A.  Yes    26%    9 votes
     B.  No     74%   25 votes

     COMMENTS:

Again, I thought no would get 100%.  These movies were just pathetic.  I
cannot find any other good word to describe them.  The thing I liked about
Star Wars is that it had no "earth" creatures, no cats, dogs, crocodiles,
elephants, etc., and then the Ewok movies come in and we have horses?  Wicket
looked very... different.  If you thought the Ewoks looked fake in Jedi, well
they looked faker than fake in the Ewok movies.

36.  Do you consider Star Tours as part of the SW canon?
     Total responses:  35
     A.  Yes    6%     2 votes
     B.  No    94%    33 votes

     COMMENTS:

I voted no, but I don't get something here.  Why can the books, games, Ewok
movies, etc., be part of Star Wars contiuaty and not Star Tours?  Lets compare
a typical SW book:  Painted cover, black words on a white page dealing with
the SW characters... with Star Tours: Real models used in the movies, John
Williams soundtrack, 3PO and R2 with their real voices, actually getting
pulled in to a Star Destroyer by a tractor beam, and, well BEING part of
Star Wars.  Whats wrong with this picture?  I would say Star Tours is far
more part of SW than any of the books or other movies.  It fits with SW
also.  First, it takes place after Endor.  Your trip is to visit Endor, and
when you walk in they show Endor and the Ewoks and 3PO says, "R2, that place
sure has changed since we were there."  And in the books we have a Sun
Crusher, an Eye of Palpatine, a Death Star Superstructure, Babylon 5 (oops
I mean Centerpoint Station<g>), Jedi's by the truck load, Grand Admirals,
and it goes on, and here we have a Death Star, nothing more.  Could they not
have built another, or perhaps had more?  Remember, YEARS ago when Ralph
McQuirrie(sp) did production art of Coruscant for Return of the Jedi he drew
two Death Stars in orbit over the planet...

37.  Do you hope that in the prequels, when Ben and Anakin fight, it ends with
     Anakin falling into a pit of lava, or do you hope that Lucas changes that
     and goes with a different approach?
     Total responses:  35
     A.  Falls into the lava         43%     15 votes
     B.  Goes with something new     57%     20 votes

     COMMENTS:

>>> Continued to next message

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Ä [20] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 70 of 233
 From : Brandon Wolgast                     1:363/281       .cê 28 .ïp 96 23:49
 To   : All
 Subj : Survey: Results!!     6/7
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE 1.2

>>> Continued from previous message

Well, I voted that he goes with a new idea, but who really knows.  I just
think the entire "Anakin falling into lava" thing is to old and will not
surprise anyone.  I think it would be just a great idea for Lucas to take
a brand new approach to that fight than what we know.  Anything but falling
into a pit.

38.  Do you go with the story that Han Solo was once in the Empire, and that
     he freed Chewbacca from slavery?
     Total responses:  34
     A.  Yes   65%   22 votes
     B.  No    35%   12 votes

     COMMENTS:

Not really much to say.  Just neat to see where people stand.

39.  Do you believe when Ben died he transferred his "Force Power" into Luke?
     Total responses:  33
     A.  Yes   58%   19 votes
     B.  No    42%   14 votes

     COMMENTS:

Again, not much to say here.  It is all just a matter of how you look at the
scene where Obi-Wan dies.

40.  How long do you believe it was between A New Hope and The Empire Strikes
     Back?
     Total responses:  34
     A.  1 year     12%    4 votes
     B.  2 years    26%    9 votes
     C.  3 years    56%   19 votes
     E.  5 years+    9%    2 votes

     COMMENTS:

This one can probably never be answered.  I myself have seen first hand four
different timelines for the movies, so who knows.

41.  How long do you believe it was between The Empire Strikes Back and
     Return of the Jedi?
     Total responses:  34
     A.  A couple of months    15%    5 votes
     B.  1 year                20%    7 votes
     C.  2 years               12%    4 votes
     D.  3 years               44%   15 votes
     F.  5 years+               9%    3 votes

42.  Do you have the non-letterboxed format of the movies (normal or THX)?
     Total responses:  33
     A.  Yes    79%    26 votes
     B.  No     21%     7 votes

     COMMENTS:

Well, hrmp... I thought YES would get 100%...

43.  Do you have the letterboxed format of the movies (normal or THX)?
     Total responses:  33
     A.  Yes     36%   12 votes
     B.  No      64%   21 votes

     COMMENTS:

Unlike the last question, this one was pretty much how I expected it to turn
out.  Note to anyone who does not have the letterboxed movies and has the
ability to get them:  DO SO NOW!  It is well worth the extra cash.

44.  Which version is better, pan-and-scan or letterboxed?
     Total responses:  33
     A.  Pan-and-scan      0%     0 votes
     B.  Letterboxed     100%    33 votes

     COMMENTS:

Again I must say, get the letterboxed versions if you do not have them.  =>

45.  Do you like the old box covers or the new box covers for the trilogy?
     Total responses:  32
     A.  Old Covers   50%   16 votes
     B.  New Covers   50%   16 votes

     COMMENTS:

The only question that was split in half.  Not much to say here.

46.  Did you like, or dislike the Ewoks?
     Total responses:  33
     A.  Liked       82%   27 votes
     B.  Disliked    18%    6 votes

     COMMENTS:

This one was also a matter of personal taste.  On the subject of Ewoks, I
should have asked if you hope they are in the new movies like Lucas has said
they will be.

47.  How do you believe Jabba moves?
     Total responses:  33
     A.  Hoversled    64%    21 votes
     C.  Crawled      36%    12 votes

     COMMENTS:

Well, it seems that the 12 voters for choice C are prophets.  It is no longer
just a guess, but George Lucas Fact that Hutts crawl, and we will see Jabba
crawling in the re-release of A New Hope.  Now that I think about it is makes
more sense that that stupid hoversled idea that Dark Horse started. (Yes I
voted for A<g>).  I mean, do little Huttlings get mini-sleds?  I would think
a race should be able to move about freely and easily without technology.
I mean, how else did Hutts move before a hoversled?  I'm glad Lucas is gonna
make Jabba crawl and not hover, much more realistic and believable.  I mean,
why not have all humans going around on jet powered rollerskates?

48.  Do you consider Coruscant the "official" capital of the Empire/New
     Republic?
     Total responses:  33
     A.  Yes    39%   13 votes
     B.  No     61%   20 votes

49.  How many Super Star Destroyers do you believe there were/are?
     Total responses:  33
     A.  Less than ten        27%    9 votes
     B.  From ten to fifty    24%    8 votes
     C.  Hundreds             49%   16 votes

     COMMENTS:

No one can say really.  I take the line from Jedi said by Han, "Now don't get
jittery kid, there are a lot of Command Ships."  I take "Command Ships" to
mean Super Star Destroyers, and to me that says, "Hey, there must be hundreds
if not more."  I always thought and still do, that there are hundreds of
thousands of regular Star Destroyers, so hundreds of Super's seems right.
But if you go by the RPG then there are less than 10.  But it's up to the
person to decide him/herself.

50.  During the time periods of the movies, who would have won in a battle
     between Yoda and the Emperor?
     Total responses:  33
     A.  Yoda       33%    11 votes
     B.  Emperor    67%    22 votes

     COMMENTS:

This last and final question turned out about how I thought it would.  It's
all a matter of perspective and taste.


>>> Continued to next message

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Ä [20] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 71 of 233
 From : Brandon Wolgast                     1:363/281       .cê 28 .ïp 96 23:49
 To   : All
 Subj : Survey: Results!!     7/7
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE 1.2

>>> Continued from previous message

Well, thats it.  Again, thank you to EVERYONE who responded and to who reads
this entire thing.  Please to respond to discuss or do whatever with this.
Who knows, maybe next time I can do a 100 question survey...<g>



Brandon

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Ä [20] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 72 of 233
 From : Brion Lienhart                      1:213/700.2     .îí 29 .ïp 96 09:05
 To   : Michael Harper
 Subj : Sound In Space
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On Fri Apr 26, Michael Harper said to Frank Glover:

 -MH> If the people in Hollywood had half a clue about the way that real sf
 -MH> works, we might get something better than the crap they try to foist
 -MH> off on us. I don't know about you, but I've gotten tired of remakes
 -MH>of old classics like _Island Of Dr. Moreau_ and _Body Snatchers_.
 -MH>They've been working for the last two years on a remake of _Forbidden
 -MH>Planet_, for Christ's sake! Why? If it ain't broke, why're they trying to

fix

 -MH> it?

Because nobody is going to spend 7-10 bucks a head for a forty year old movie. I
bought a copy of Forbidden Planet, but I imagine it's not way up there in the
video best-seller lists.



--- QM v1.31
 * Origin: Ministry of Peace - Carson City, NV (1:213/700.2)

Ä [20] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 73 of 233
 From : Scott Royall                        1:106/357       .åò 02 .àé 96 17:57
 To   : Michael Harper
 Subj : Voyager Doc?
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Michael,

Wednesday May 01 1996 06:09, Michael Harper wrote to Mark Jones:

 MH>  Or the Federation has deliberately avoided construction of true
 MH>  artificial intelligence because something unpleasant happened in
 MH>  previous attempts. The Enterprise computers are several magnitudes
 MH>  ahead of anything we can construct, but they're still machines,
 MH>  helpless without programming and guidance. That's the way I set it up
 MH>  in my own future history series, and the way George R.R. Martin did in
 MH>  his Federal Empire/Triple War future history. Lemme give you a quote
 MH>  from _Tuf Voyaging_...

 MH>         "It's empty, Nevis. The ship is empty, they're all dead. And the
 MH>         system is empty, too. I'm alone in here. No other mind is in the
 MH>         circuit. It's an idiot, Kaj Nevis. The _Ark_ is an idiot giant.
 MH>         They were afraid, those Earth Imperials. They'd achieved true
 MH>         Artificial Intelligence. Oh, yes, they had their great AI
 MH>         warships, their robot fleets, but the AIs had minds of their
 MH>         own, and there were incidents. It's in the histories - there was
 MH>         Kandabaer and the action off Lear and the revolt of _Alecto_ and
 MH>         _Golem_. The seedships were too powerful, they knew that as they
 MH>         built them. The _Ark_ had duties for two hundred - strategists
 MH>         and scientists and eco-engineers and crew and officers - and she
 MH>         could carry more than a thousand soldiers, too, and feed all of
 MH>         them, and operate at full capacity, and lay waste to _worlds_,
 MH>         oh yes. And everything worked through the system, Nevis, but
 MH>         it's a safe system, a big system, a sophisticated system, a
 MH>         system that can repair itself and defend itself and do a
 MH>         thousand things at once - if you tell it to. The two hundred
 MH>         crewmen made it efficient, but you could run it with only one,
 MH>         Nevis. Not efficiently, no, not at anything near full capacity,
 MH>         but you could do it. It can't run itself - it's got no mind, no
 MH>         AI, it waits for orders - but one man can tell it what to do.
 MH>         One man! I could have done it easily. But Kaj Nevis got
 MH>         impatient and killed me."

Interesting.  For the last 20 years, I've written a set of private stories set
in a somewhat dirtier version of the Trek universe.  One of the centerpieces in
this series (and the RPG I've run for six years) is the Nebula class of ships.
(I selected the class name LONG before TNG used it. :))  These ships are
sentient and have no crew per se.  They come out of the shipyards with "blank"
personalities that then adapt to complement that of their captains.  The ship
that the class is named after has become a bit of a character herself after
fifteen years in service.  Yep, the Federation is scared of AIs, but economics
barely overrides in this case.  These ships are used as patrol cutters and rapid
response since they do carry a company of marines.

Something I've never understood is why AIs are stereotyped as evil.  Mine simply
see themselves as dedicated career soldiers serving their captains and the
Federation.  If asked, Nebula herself would say that she is more fortunate than
many humans in that she *knows* her purpose.  On the technical side, this is
accomplished through a variation of Asimov's Laws of Robotics.  Of course, as
these are military vessels, the laws are a *bit* different. :)
Scott

sroyal@accesscomm.net
royall@shellus.com
FAX: 713-556-5464

--- GoldED/2 2.50+
 * Origin:  scott.royall@conch.cld9.com  713-556-5464  (1:106/357)

Ä [20] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 74 of 233
 From : Kevin Ahearn                        1:109/104       .åò 02 .àé 96 21:52
 To   : Bob Klahn
 Subj : SPOILEREVIEW: SIC 'EM
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 KA> On the other hand, maybe his turn at th throne will come after the
 KA> shadow war...and his first act as emporer will be
 KA> having Morden's head
 KA> stuck on a pole so that the new Empore can greet Morden with a finger
 KA> wave...

 BK>  He's much to decent for that, more like a humane execution.

I dunno...I got the idea from an episode from last season (or was it early THIS
season?) in which Morden asked Vir what his greatest wish was.  Vir gave an
answer similar to the idea I mentioned.

--Kevin

--- Maximus/2 3.01
 * Origin: ShanErin (1:109/104)

Ä [20] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 75 of 233
 From : Bill Clements                       1:18/230        .pä 01 .àé 96 19:30
 To   : Bob Klahn
 Subj : EDUCATION THROUGH FIC
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
From the desk of a cynical old man...

Posted 28 Apr 96 - BOB KLAHN to BILL CLEMENTS

 BK>  I'm willing to bet you can't make a valid case for declining
 BK> educational  standards in the US at all. I've heard this over and over
 BK> and never seen the  evidence presented. It's always some study
 BK> somebody did, but no supporting  data provided.

The case was made 16 years ago when Robert A. Heinlein addressed
the Decline of Education in "EXPANDED UNIVERSE". I suggest that
you read 'THE HAPPY DAYS AHEAD' in "EXPANDED UNIVERSE". I'll
quote briefly:

--------------------- BEGIN HEINLEIN QUOTE ----------------------
GLOOM, WOE, AND DISASTER - There are increasing pathological
trends in our culture that show us headed down the chute to self-
destruction. These trends do not require that we be conquered -
wait a bit and we will fall into the lap of whichever power cares
to occupy us. I'll list some of these trends and illustrate
(rather than prove) what I mean. But it would be tediously
depressing to pile up convincing proof - I'm not running for
office. I do have proof, on file right in this room. I started
clipping and filing by categories on trends as early as 1930 and
my "youngest" file was started in 1945.
---------------------- END HEINLEIN QUOTE -----------------------

I sincerely doubt that, upon her husbands death, Virginia
Heinlein destroyed the aforementioned evidence. As she is
renewing copyrights and keeping his work in publication, I am
sure that she can be contacted through her publisher.

 BK>  I would argue that the entire Star Trek series represents a decline
 BK> in  educational standards. The lack of valid scientific basis for much
 BK> of anything is the basis for my saying this. I'd like to see real
 BK> scientific knowledge extrapolated to the future.

 BK>  B5 and Space above and Beyond probably do not really do any better on
 BK> the  science, but they are less glitter and gimicks and heavy on plot
 BK> and character.

There is not now nor has there ever been any _GOOD_(hard)_
science fiction on television. (That should get me some hate
mail.) See my posted quote from Henry Kuttner for a definition of
good science fiction. I will say nothing defending TNG other than
the fact that I _LIKE_ most of the characters. TNG may be
mindless but it is entertaining. As to B5 and S:AAB, I have yet
to watch a complete episode of either one, usually before the
first commercial break I turn off the T.V. and read or fire up
the computer.

 BC> In Florida today adult adolescence and unacceptable workmanship
 BC> are not considered valid reasons to terminate an employee. An
 BC> individual thus terminated will simply march down to the Florida
 BC> Department of Labor and Employment Security and file for
 BC> unemployment compensation. He'll get it too, 26 weeks of half
 BC> pay vacation with mandatory, of course, but cursory job
 BC> interviews. At this time the employers "experience rating" will
 BC> go up, as will his premium for mandatory state unemployment
 BC> insurance. The state of Florida grants it's residents the
 BC> right, not privilege, of gainful employment. Well paid Florida
 BC> residents can, if "wrongly" terminated, cause a steep upturn in
 BC> an employers unemployment insurance premium.

 BK> Having given this some thought I have come to the conclusion that
 BK> this portion should also be challenged. I would like to explain
 BK> exactly why there is nothing at all unreasonable in that situation,
 BK> but I would prefer to do it in an echo where it would be on-topic.
 BK> If you don't get the debate echo, is there another you would choose?

The 1996 guidelines for terminating all employees are the same
guidelines used in 1976 for the termination of _MINORS_. This is
progress? I noted the fact that privileges are continually being
legislated into rights. There is however no corresponding
legislation of responsibilities to balance the aforementioned
rights.

In Florida an employees responsibilities are:

  Not to be caught stealing from his employer.

  Nor to be insubordinate to his employer, or to his employer's
  agents or assigns, before another employee or a customer of
  said employer.

No mention is made of earning one's pay by doing the job that one
was hired to do. I may be a bit old fashioned but, _THAT'S_A_
CROCK_. Individuals that do not work acceptably by the standards
of their employer, should not be allowed to continue working, nor
should they be paid for the time that they put in.

The subject of this thread is EDUCATION THROUGH FICTION. My
premise in starting this thread was that:

  Science Fiction has historically had a higher percentage of
  educational content than any other form of fiction and that in
  recent years this content has been dropping.

The debate echo is not available locally nor am I particularly
interested in debate. I will continue this thread as long as
there are responses, or such time as it is shut down by the
Moderator. I will note that to date Nicolai has not commented.

Quote from:
  "EXPANDED UNIVERSE" (C)opyright 1980 by Robert A. Heinlein
  ISBN 0-441-21883-0

--RWC

... "All men are created unequal." --LL

--- PPoint 2.00 / QWK

--- FLAME v1.1
 * Origin: ANCESTRY TBBS Shadows of forgotten ancestors 941-382-9061 (1:18/230)

Ä [20] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 76 of 233
 From : Bill Clements                       1:18/230        .pä 01 .àé 96 19:30
 To   : Trishia Dressler
 Subj : MISPLACED MESSAGES
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
From the desk of a cynical old man...

Here are the pertainent parts of the headers from the messages
that you accidently posted to SFFAN:

 >TD Date:    19 Apr 96  03:28:00  Public
 >TD To:      EARL CLARK
 >TD Subject: FREQUENT FLYER POINTS !!

 >TD Date:    19 Apr 96  03:28:00  Public
 >TD To:      RIC STEINES
 >TD Subject: FREQUENT FLYER POINTS !!

 >TD Date:    19 Apr 96  03:28:00  Public
 >TD To:      BILL MOHR
 >TD Subject: IT'S NOT JUST YOU

 >TD Date:    19 Apr 96  03:28:00  Public
 >TD To:      BILL MOHR
 >TD Subject: PHYSICAL ATTRACTION

--RWC

... "There is only one way to console a widow. But remember the risk." --LL

--- PPoint 2.00 / QWK

--- FLAME v1.1
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Ä [20] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 77 of 233
 From : Todd Sullivan                       1:202/720.3     .pä 01 .àé 96 19:48
 To   : Peter Tam
 Subj : sci-fi cartoons
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Reports from the Interior indicate that Peter Tam leaked the following to me,
re: sci-fi cartoons

 PT>> How 'bout 'The Galaxy Trio'?

 TS>> Sounds like the original (Japanese) title of "The Amazing Three".

 PT> Nope...Hanna Barbera...played with Birdman.

Wasn't before my time (I think); I must have missed it, or saw it once and
passed it over.

Todd Sullivan

... *  <-- Tribble  [+*+]  <-- Tribble on a Klingon Firing Range

-*- ASTG 1.9

--- Spot 1.3a Unregistered
 * Origin: Todd's Spot in the Continuum (1:202/720.3)

Ä [20] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 78 of 233
 From : The Raven                           1:363/309       .pä 01 .àé 96 20:10
 To   : Todd Sullivan
 Subj : Kindred: Embrace
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 "This just in from our Moscow Bureau..."

 TS>  So, which one do you consider yourself?
 TS>
 TS>  Me?  Gangrel, of course. <G>

     Malks rule, man... Malks forever!

     Jack Butler



... "And if I die today I'll be the happy phantom..." -- Tori Amos
--- Blue Wave/DOS v2.20 [NR]
 * Origin: Forethought BBS -=- Orlando, FL -=- 407-679-6561 (1:363/309)

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 Msg  : 79 of 233
 From : Lis Carey                           1:101/230       .pä 01 .àé 96 05:56
 To   : Frank Glover
 Subj : BOAT OF A MILLION YEARS
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
FG>  I won't even touch this arguement, being only an occasional Highlander
FG>watcher. However, I suggest you might like Poul Anderson's `The Boat of A
FG>Million Years.' It deals with apperant immortals, no magic, just an odd gene
FG>quirk that keeps them physically in their 20's or so, fast (but not magicall
FG>fast) healing, but quite killable. And unable to pass along their trait (whi
FG>destines them to outlive their children, among other things).

FG>   A long read, and not truly S-Ffy till the last third (about 1975 on) of t
FG>story. If you liked the original Trek episode `Requieum for Metheusala' (sp?
FG>you may enjoy this even more.

How exactly are you defining "S-Ffy" if you regard a book about people
who are immortal due to a genetic quirk as "not truly S-Ffy" until it
reaches the present day?

Are you saying that "historical novel" covers it for the earlier
portions?

If so, I can't agree with that. Without its sfnal premise, none of the
story in BOAT OF A MILLION YEARS can happen.

 * OLX 2.1 TD * MSI - Bringing it all together in '92

--- FLAME v1.0
 * Origin: Withouta Net - Drop In Anytime! - 617/846-5416 (1:101/230)

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 Msg  : 80 of 233
 From : Michael Harper                      1:123/10        .pä 01 .àé 96 22:46
 To   : Brion Lienhart
 Subj : Sound In Space
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Tossing back another tequila, Brion Lienhart told Michael Harper about
Sound In Space...

 BL> Because nobody is going to spend 7-10 bucks a head for a forty year
 BL> old movie. I bought a copy of Forbidden Planet, but I imagine it's not
 BL> way up there in the video best-seller lists.

 More so than you'd think; Forbidden Planet has been in constant video
 release for twenty years, and Criterion released a restored laserdisc
 version a few years ago. The thing that grumps me is that they're
 redoing a classic, and there's no need for it. There are stories enough
 in sf that have never been touched; why are they doing this?


... "You shall be known as Sir G'kar, The Red Knight." --Arthur
--- RA/FD/FMail
 * Origin: The Eclectic Fox -- Memphis TN  (901)327-1008 (1:123/10)

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 Msg  : 81 of 233
 From : Thomas Gladwin                      2:500/249.24    .cê 28 .ïp 96 14:15
 To   : Michael Harper
 Subj : Physical attraction
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
21-Apr-96 06:53:43, Michael Harper wrote to Trishia Dressler
          Subject: Physical attraction
disclaimer: I know this is none of my business

 MH>  And she doesn't want me. Says I'm too good for her. She can't see in
 MH>  herself what everyone else who knows her can. And it breaks my heart to
 MH>  know this...
 MH>  she'll still ignore me and go off after some other guy. That's the way
 MH>  my life works...

Ah (always distrust people who go"Ah") but if you expect that, it'll happen.
You'll always let your feelings show through, so this lady will notice you
don't actually expect her to respond to you. And will interpret that as you
not actually wanting her to.
There might be a certain "fear-of-failure" playing behind this, which might
account for little things in your behaviour which give that message to the
lady. Are you trying to hard to be a friend, at the cost of trying to
start a relationship? A good test is, seeing if you make excuses against
actions which could deepen her involvement with you.

Well, that's enough. Please don't send me hate-mail for this ;-) just
sticking my beak in.

de mazzel,

Thomas Gladwin

 -=> Yours sincerely, Thomas Gladwin <=-

--- Terminate 3.00/Pro
 * Origin: Terminate has most advertising origin lines ;-) (2:500/249.24)

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 Msg  : 82 of 233
 From : Thomas Gladwin                      2:500/249.24    .òp 30 .ïp 96 12:33
 To   : Brion Lienhart
 Subj : Chris Elliot's sitcom
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
26-Apr-96 07:25:49, Brion Lienhart wrote to Peter Tam
          Subject: Chris Elliot's sitcom
Hi Brion,

 BL>  -PT>It was called "Get a Life"...actually still have a coupla episodes
 BL> on
 BL>  -PT>tape.
 BL> Good lord, why? Out of respect for Bob Elliot and Elanor Donahue, all
 BL> copies of
 BL> that show should be destroyed.

I must disagree most violently <sound of chainsaw>. "Get a life" must have
been the pinnacle of comedy acting... I mean, the intro alone was hilarious!
Of course, I'm biased, I had a teacher at the time who looked *exactly* like
the main character, and oh what fun we had...

Ever seen "Red Dwarf" by the way? It's an English SF/comedy. And it's
brilliant, based loosely on the book. Check out BBC2 sometime in the autumn,
I think it should be back on by then. Damn fool actor got accused of rape
and held up the new episodes, so it's been a while since it was on.

de mazzel,

Thomas Gladwin

 -=> Yours sincerely, Thomas Gladwin <=-

--- Terminate 3.00/Pro
 * Origin: What kind of fool think up origin lines? Woops... (2:500/249.24)

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 Msg  : 83 of 233
 From : Thomas Gladwin                      2:500/249.24    .òp 30 .ïp 96 12:38
 To   : Sue Squires
 Subj : STAR TREK GENERATIONS
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
26-Apr-96 10:56:01, Sue Squires wrote to Bob Klahn
          Subject: STAR TREK GENERATIONS

 SS>  Hmm.  I've always wondered about the relative merits of each approach.
 SS>  At least a cat would catch the vermin out where you had enough room
 SS>  to maneuvre it into oblivion if it didn't eat it.  With venting, I've

Yah, but were are the vermin supposed to come from in the first place?
Surely it would be easier to keep loading bays etc sterile?

de mazzel,

Thomas Gladwin

 -=> Yours sincerely, Thomas Gladwin <=-

--- Terminate 3.00/Pro
 * Origin: Fight the system: alt-ctrl-del (2:500/249.24)

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 Msg  : 84 of 233
 From : Thomas Gladwin                      2:500/249.24    .òp 30 .ïp 96 12:40
 To   : Eric Fishbein
 Subj : Sci-Fi TV Complaints
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
27-Apr-96 00:33:24, Eric Fishbein wrote to Peter Tam
          Subject: Sci-Fi TV Complaints
Hi Eric,

 EF>         Star Trek is the one good exception to this, where they try and
 EF> continue the tradition that Roddenberry started, by commenting on the
 EF> present
 EF> from the future.  They've lost a lot of their bite over the years, and I

I agree, we Dutch have been blessed by reruns of the original ST, and it's
simply better than the sequels, IMHO. TNG was still good, but was a bit
too psycho-friendly, concentrating too much on the characters, while TOS
had so many different plots, it's amazing... it's been years since I saw the
original, and I was pretty young then, but it was a great surprise to see
how good the series really was... I expected the attraction to be mostly
nostalgia at first.

 EF> think
 EF> ST is falling prey to the "too much of a good thing" factor.  I'm really
 EF> starting to get bored with it (as many of my friends are) and we seem to
 EF> be
 EF> turning alot more to B5 for or sci-fi fix.  I think one ST series would
 EF> have
 EF> been plenty (and I'm not talking about DS:9 either...).

Good for you, how they think that's got anything to do with the original
concept ("Seeking out strange new worlds etc") is beyond me. But this must
be an old discussion by now...

de mazzel,

Thomas Gladwin

 -=> Yours sincerely, Thomas Gladwin <=-

--- Terminate 3.00/Pro
 * Origin: Warning: Fascism can turn you bald (2:500/249.24)

Ä [20] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 85 of 233
 From : David Johnston                      1:342/14        .ÿò 03 .àé 96 00:09
 To   : Terry Riley
 Subj : Highlander News!
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
-> BK>  Why would immortals stop being born in 1980?
->
-> According to Joe Dawson in the episode in which a girl claimed Richie
-> was the father of her child, no immortal has ever had a child.
-> This would suggest to me that the gene which produces immortals is
-> recessive.

It suggests to me that immortality isn't genetic.

--- PCBoard (R) v15.21/100
 * Origin: Freddy's Place - Edm. AB - 28.8K (403) 456-4241 (1:342/14)

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 Msg  : 86 of 233
 From : Lawrence E Dunlap                   1:106/2927      .îí 29 .ïp 96 21:24
 To   : Barton Paul Levenson
 Subj : Puppeteer planet
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

BP> Origin:(1:129/26)

BP>The novel "Ringworld" has Nessus as a major character and includes scenes on
BP>the Puppeteer home world.


    Next paycheck, I'm clearing my fine with the Library. Ringworld is a
novel that I've wanted to read but always found some other good/great
read to select from the PL that I prized higher.

    Not this time!

    Thank you for dropping the note off

Lawrence E Dunlap
(1:106/2927) or Internet e-mail "PostOakLED@AOL.com"

___
* UniQWK #5136* A courageous foe is better than a cowardly friend.
- JetMail v1.12 - Unregistered QWK Mail Door for Spitfire

--- Alexi/Mail 2.02b (#10000)
 * Origin: Computer Living F'n BBS-Spring, TX 713-355-1596 (1:106/2927)

Ä [20] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 87 of 233
 From : Lawrence E Dunlap                   1:106/2927      .îí 29 .ïp 96 21:38
 To   : Bob Klahn
 Subj : SOFT/SLAVER WEAPON
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

BK> Origin:  (1:234/2)

BK>I thought the conclusion was the Puppeteers were just excessively sensible.

    Humans might have decided that point if the Puppeters had revealed
their lifespan in human years.

    Supposedly the Puppeters never did reveal their lifespan before
fleeing the galaxy, but might have tipped off humans to a possibility
when the Puppeters left in near-luminial ramscoop starships for the
Andromeda Galaxy within a multigeneration life support system in place.

    Sufficiently short-lived races would take superluminial drive
starships when leaving the galaxy to save travel time. Clearly the
Puppeters believed there was a threat to themselves which would make
sense to a short-lived human only if he gauged the Puppeters lifespan as
upwards of 15,000 Terran years when the radiation would come near
waht humans estimated as the inner rim of Puppeter space (as per Niven).

Lawrence E Dunlap
(1:106/2927) or Internet e-mail "PostOakLED@AOL.com"
 ___
* UniQWK #5136* No, all planets with life on them are odd.
- JetMail v1.12 - Unregistered QWK Mail Door for Spitfire

--- Alexi/Mail 2.02b (#10000)
 * Origin: Computer Living F'n BBS-Spring, TX 713-355-1596 (1:106/2927)

Ä [20] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 88 of 233
 From : Brion Lienhart                      1:213/700.2     .ÿò 03 .àé 96 11:12
 To   : Frank Glover
 Subj : Re: STAR TREK GENERATIONS
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On Wed May 01, Frank Glover said to Eric Fishbein:

EF>     That brings up another question:  Did Data actually have a toilet
EF>  in his quarters?
 -FG>
 -FG>   I don't know. With no references to a head (or whatever) anywhere
 -FG>in Star Trek that I know of (though there was at least one shower,
 -FG>seen in ST:TMP), how do we know that *anyone* did?

Everyone knows that they just use the transporter to beam it straight out of
your body. It's the Klingons that don't have toilets (that's why they are so
mean 8-(:-)).




--- QM v1.31
 * Origin: Ministry of Peace - Carson City, NV (1:213/700.2)

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 Msg  : 89 of 233
 From : Dante                               1:3821/12       .ÿò 03 .àé 96 00:36
 To   : Marcus Green
 Subj : HIGHLANDER BACKGROUND
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
try e mailing douglass@chaplin.ndhm.gtegsc.com and in the Subject write
Send HL FAQ

--- FLAME v1.1
 * Origin: The Rock BBS   Little Rock, AR              501.753.8575 (1:3821/12)

Ä [20] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 90 of 233
 From : Kay Shapero                         1:102/524       .pä 01 .àé 96 22:56
 To   : Lawrence E Dunlap
 Subj : EDUCATION THROUGH FICTION
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <May 01 10:09>, Lawrence E Dunlap (1:106/2927) wrote to Kay Shapero:

 LE>I'm sending you netmail to explain the answer to your concern.
 LE>It's waiting in my REP packet that my BBS is not receiving
 LE>currently.
 LE>You will understand my take and spin on this.

Actually I probably won't get it - we've just changed NECs and there's been a
bit of a netmail glitch.  Or I'd send *this* netmail.

And spin or no spin, the entertainment industry is NOT easy on those who work in
it (don't let the famous salaries of a few top stars fool you - take a look at
the average worker therein, musicians, actors and the swarms of other people.
For example, y'know why it's so hard to get into most movie related guilds?
They have trouble enough finding work for the folks already there.)  Nor is it
necessary for other workplaces to have people continually sabotaging each other
so they can grab each other's jobs.  It's not desirable either; all that
distraction from what the company is *supposed* to be doing produces substandard
product and occasionally endangers the public.  "Profit" is a television show,
not an accurate description of the average work environment.

And if you think the problem is justifying such conduct to someone you've never
even met before, you've misidentified it.  Go back and think again.

--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [20] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 91 of 233
 From : Eric Fishbein                       1:322/360       .ÿò 03 .àé 96 00:26
 To   : Terry Riley
 Subj : VOYAGER DOC?
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 > In the above quotation, delete "sentinent" and insert "sentient".

        Thanks for improving my spelling, I really appreciate it, but don't you
have an opinion as well?

--- FLAME v1.0/b
 * Origin: Add TSX-BBS, The Swiss Army Knife For TBBS! 508.429.8385 (1:322/360)

Ä [20] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 92 of 233
 From : Eric Fishbein                       1:322/360       .ÿò 03 .àé 96 00:35
 To   : Michael Harper
 Subj : VOYAGER DOC?
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 > The Enterprise computers are powerful enough; they don't need to be
 > AIs
 > as well. If they were, we wouldn't need crew...

        Ah, but that doesn't discount the fact that there are AIs (or AI LIKE)
subroutines running on a computer that isn't supposed to be sentient.  How can
part of the machine be alive while the whole is not?  Can certain of our organs
die without us rejecting them?
        It just doesn't seem likely to me that the Doctor could be a whole,
independent, functioning individual without some sort of higher power governing
his actions.  If this is the case, what was that little creature the
Enterprise's computers spawned at the end of the TNG run?

--- FLAME v1.0/b
 * Origin: Add TSX-BBS, The Swiss Army Knife For TBBS! 508.429.8385 (1:322/360)

Ä [20] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 93 of 233
 From : Marcus Green                        1:123/569       .ÿò 03 .àé 96 14:59
 To   : Paul Worley
 Subj : sci fi trivia
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE 1.11+

 -=> Quoting Paul Worley to Marcus Green <=-

 PW> 27 Apr 96 19:18, Marcus Green wrote to Paul Worley:

 PW>> Hello Dave!
 MG> Hello Hal--(sorry, couldn't resist :-> )
 PW> Good morning Dr. Chandra. I am ready for my first lesson today. :)

 "Daisy, daisy...Give me your answer true..." :>

 PW>> the intrepid, farragut, hathaway, DM> horizon, lexington,
 PW>> republic, valiant and enterprise.  i probably DM> got all

 MG>  Uh, I picked this thread up in mid-discussion, are we talking
 MG> about TOS? If so, then there were only 12 starships, not 13.(Your

 PW> Don't apologize for the interruption. Actually, I was copying the
 PW> question straight out of the Star Trek Concordance. They are listed
 PW> under the heading for 'Starships'. It lists 13 ships.  What reference
 PW> were you using?

 Actually, I was remembering it from an old paperback book I have around here
called " The Making of Star Trek", circa 1975, I believe. I'll try to dig it out
if you want...(G). It had lots of "behind-the-scenes" interviews and stories and
was VERY entertaining to an impressionable 9-yr-old. I don't know how I would
react to reading it nowadays.. Hmmm...

 Somehow, (and I don't mean to flame anyone here..) I find it hard to accept
that Okuda is the final word on the matter. Yes, he is one of the writers of the
show, and yes, I have enjoyed the way that the ST Universe has been headed (for
the most part..), But I believe that GR had a specific vision of what he wanted
and feel as though Okuda and the rest just went off into their own directions...
sad, but I still enjoy it. And probably will for the rest of my life. ST has
been a part of my growing-up for a 20+ yrs and I don't see myself voluntarily
giving it up. :>

-Marcus





... I am Porky of Borg. P-p-p-p-pre-a-pre-p-p-p-p-p. Aw, give up.
--- Blue Wave/RA v2.12
 * Origin: 9 out of 5 Schizos prefer Lunatic Fringe! 382-LUST (1:123/569)

Ä [20] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 94 of 233
 From : Marcus Green                        1:123/569       .ÿò 03 .àé 96 14:59
 To   : Eric Fishbein
 Subj : STAR TREK GENERATIONS
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE 1.11+

 -=> Quoting Eric Fishbein to Sue Squires <=-


>  seen gadgets for gradually teaching cats and smaller dogs to use
 >  unaltered toilets directly.

 EF> Um, I don't think Data would have been able to get Spot to use the
 EF> toilet, much less flush it.
 EF> brings up another question:  Did Data actually have a toilet in his
 EF> quarters?

Hmmm, suddenly I have considered yet another use for transporter technology...
and it would benefit Hydroponics too! :)

-Marcus



... My other computer's a... er... well, it's a piece of junk too.
--- Blue Wave/RA v2.12
 * Origin: 9 out of 5 Schizos prefer Lunatic Fringe! 382-LUST (1:123/569)

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 Msg  : 95 of 233
 From : Marcus Green                        1:123/569       .ÿò 03 .àé 96 14:59
 To   : All who're interested..
 Subj : Starship Troopers
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE 1.11+
Hi All..

    According to the May 1996 issue of Cinescape Magazine:

 ****begin quote****

 Starship Troopers:

    Players: Neil Patrick Harris

    The Plot: After the debacle that was "Showgirls", director Paul Verhoeven
abandons bare thighs for sci-fi. This big-budget space flick depicts an Earth
overrun by tenacious insects, and it's based on a Robert Heinlein tale. TV's
lovable Doogie Howser (Harris) takes on the job of saving Earth from the killer
bugs.

    The director: Paul Verhoeven
    Distributor:  Columbia
    Release date: T.B.D


***end quote****

Hmm, doesn't sound very promising... "Earth overrun.."??? "Killer Bugs"????
doesn't even sound like the book that I just finished re-reading...

    "DOOGIE HOWSER"???????!!!!

Maybe Fred Savage from the "Wonder Years" wasn't available...  :)

-Marcus






... Are these [(send cash)] subliminal taglines [(send cash)] effective?
--- Blue Wave/RA v2.12
 * Origin: 9 out of 5 Schizos prefer Lunatic Fringe! 382-LUST (1:123/569)

Ä [20] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 96 of 233
 From : Frank Glover                        1:2613/477      .ÿò 03 .àé 96 23:35
 To   : Lawrence E Dunlap
 Subj : Re: Soft/Slaver Weapon
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

LE>  Thanks, I didn't know Ringworld Engineers was out.

   Quite some time. I read a friend's copy in 1981.

   Frank


--- QuickBBS 2.80 (Zeta-1)
 * Origin: The Matrix Data Bank BBS, Rochester, Ny (1:2613/477)

Ä [20] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 97 of 233
 From : Frank Glover                        1:2613/477      .ÿò 03 .àé 96 23:40
 To   : Michael Harper
 Subj : Re: Voyager Doc?
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

MH>  The Enterprise computers are powerful enough; they don't need to be
MH>  AIs
MH>  as well. If they were, we wouldn't need crew...
MH>
MH>  And then where would our story be? <g>

   The Adventures of Captain Dunsel, I guess...

   Frank


--- QuickBBS 2.80 (Zeta-1)
 * Origin: The Matrix Data Bank BBS, Rochester, Ny (1:2613/477)

Ä [20] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 98 of 233
 From : Sharpshooter                        1:260/158       .óá 04 .àé 96 13:26
 To   : Marcus Green
 Subj : sci fi trivia
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
RE: sci fi trivia
BY: Marcus Green to Paul Worley on Fri May 03 1996 02:59 pm

 > that Okuda is the final word on the matter. Yes, he is one of the writers of
 > the show, and yes, I have enjoyed the way that the ST Universe has been head

Writer? According to the credits that run at the end of the show, Michael Okuda
is one of the technical assistants, not a writer at all. His wife Denise Okuda
is one of the art people. In other words they work on building the sets used to
shoot the episodes, they don't create the stories, write the screenplay, or do
any of that stuff that the actual writers do.

                                        -=>Sharpshooter<=-
--- Synchronet+SBBSecho v1.22
 * Origin: The Nighthawk BBS - WNY USA - V.34 (1:260/158)

Ä [20] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 99 of 233
 From : Wes Yahola                          1:123/569       .óá 04 .àé 96 12:03
 To   : Sarah Hargreaves
 Subj : QUARK!
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE 1.11+

 -=> Quoting Sarah Hargreaves to Wes Yahola <=-


 SH> I gather by your message here that you're trying windows so it looks
 SH> like sh*t. :) :)  I think the tagline at the bottom of your message is
 SH> appropriate to your probs with windoze..:) :)
 > ... System halted - Press all keys at once to continue.

    Yup - finally got a bwave upnrunnin though - happy2,joy2 :>



... Taglines are irrelevant. You will be assimilated into the Blue Wave.
--- Blue Wave/RA v2.12 [NR]
 * Origin: 9 out of 5 Schizos prefer Lunatic Fringe! 382-LUST (1:123/569)

Ä [20] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 100 of 233
 From : Jan De Smedt                        2:292/403.2     .åò 02 .àé 96 12:34
 To   : All
 Subj : Julian May - Magnificat
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Hello all,

I have the impression that the novel _Magnificat_ by Julian May has already been
published in the U.S. I am eagerly awaiting its availability in Europe, but so
far I've got no luck.

The novel concludes _the Galactic Milieu_ trilogy.

Can someone please give me more info about this book, like:
- publisher,
- year
- ISBN number
- price

Thanks, and greetings,
Jan

Fidonet : 2:292/403.2
Internet: jan.de.smedt@connectvzw.be

_Due to a quantum fluctuation in this area a tagline is generated:_
Star Trek DS9: Ferengi rules of acquisition
#109. Dignity and a empty sack is worth a sack. - Rivals
--- ScanMail 0.70
 * Origin: * Connect BBS +32-14231429 * (2:292/403.2@fidonet.org)

Ä [20] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 101 of 233
 From : Eric Fishbein                       1:322/360       .óá 04 .àé 96 00:33
 To   : Frank Glover
 Subj : RE: STAR TREK GENERATIONS
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 >    I don't know. With no references to a head (or whatever) anywhere
 > in Star Trek that I know of (though there was at least one shower,
 > seen in ST:TMP), how do we know that *anyone* did?
 >
 >    But I have to assume that Data was given conventional quarters,
 > and simply never used it. (Guests might always need it, after all.)

        Ok, well even Capt. Piccard had to use the bathroom every once in a
while (as far as we know)...I remember that episode with the shower, wasn't it
ultra-sonic or use sound in some capacity?
        Did Data even have to excrete waste?  I remember him saying in one
episode that he ingested a highly specialized solution to keep his parts well
lubricated (INSERT YOUR OWN JOKE HERE), but unfortunately  we never got a chance
to see him do this.

--- FLAME v1.0/b
 * Origin: Add TSX-BBS, The Swiss Army Knife For TBBS! 508.429.8385 (1:322/360)

Ä [20] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 102 of 233
 From : James Walton                        1:129/260       .óá 04 .àé 96 18:44
 To   : Frank Glover
 Subj : Re: STAR TREK GENERATIONS
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 >
 >    I don't know. With no references to a head (or whatever)
 > anywhere in  Star Trek that I know of (though there was
 > at least one shower, seen in  ST:TMP), how do we know that
 > *anyone* did?

In the Star Fleet Technical manual for ST:TOS, there are deck layouts and plans
for the Enterprise NCC 1701 (notice that there is no bloody A, B, C, or D.)  In
those plans toilets are in several convenient places.

--- Opus-CBCS 1.73a
 * Origin: ConFluence '96:  Return to Mars! (1:129/260.0)

Ä [20] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 103 of 233
 From : James Walton                        1:129/260       .óá 04 .àé 96 18:49
 To   : Michael Harper
 Subj : Re: Sound In Space
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 >  redoing a classic, and there's no need for it. There are stories
 >  enough in sf that have never been touched; why are they doing this?


Money!  The viewing public has proven time and again that they will flock
immediately to the same old thing, but stay away from anything new.

--- Opus-CBCS 1.73a
 * Origin: ConFluence '96:  Return to Mars! (1:129/260.0)

Ä [20] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 104 of 233
 From : Michael Harper                      1:123/10        .óá 04 .àé 96 06:17
 To   : Scott Royall
 Subj : Voyager Doc?
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Tossing back another tequila, Scott Royall told Michael Harper about
Voyager Doc?...

 SR> Something I've never understood is why AIs are stereotyped as evil.
 SR> Mine simply see themselves as dedicated career soldiers serving their
 SR> captains and the Federation.  If asked, Nebula herself would say that
 SR> she is more fortunate than many humans in that she *knows* her
 SR> purpose.  On the technical side, this is accomplished through a
 SR> variation of Asimov's Laws of Robotics.  Of course, as these are
 SR> military vessels, the laws are a *bit* different. :)

 I can't answer that one. In my own universe, AIs were used as primary
 control in an arcological society; they ran everything in the
 buildings, leaving humans free to pursue what they wish as long as it
 didn't interfere with the smooth operation of the environment. Of
 course, one of them got sick and killed off his entire population,
 convinced that they were trying to kill him...

 I don't know about other writers, but I made Zeus into a villain because
 I wanted an apparently unstoppable opponent for my protagonist. How do
 you fight an intelligent city? The notion of applying Asimov's laws
 never occurred to me; in an arcology, where part of the function of the
 control core is elimination of vermin, the laws would have loopholes in
 the programming to allow for controlling rats and roaches. Stretch that
 farther to allow for security functions, and the laws break down. Zeus'
 problem was that he saw the actions of the residents as harmful to the
 building and in violation of his basic directives, so the logical thing
 was to eliminate the problem. Security and maintenance 'bots were
 reprogrammed to hunt down and kill residents, and the screams began...

 The notion of AI warships is an intriguing one; I may have to fiddle
 with it a bit. Kind of a spacegoing version of Laumer's Bolos...


... "To use a human phrase, it gives me the screaming willies." --Draal
--- RA/FD/FMail
 * Origin: The Eclectic Fox -- Memphis TN  (901)327-1008 (1:123/10)

Ä [20] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 105 of 233
 From : Michael Harper                      1:123/10        .óá 04 .àé 96 06:17
 To   : Thomas Gladwin
 Subj : Physical attraction
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Tossing back another tequila, Thomas Gladwin told Michael Harper about
Physical attraction...

 TG> Ah (always distrust people who go"Ah") but if you expect that, it'll
 TG> happen. You'll always let your feelings show through, so this lady will
 TG> notice you don't actually expect her to respond to you. And will
 TG> interpret that as you not actually wanting her to.

 But see, there's the thing. Yeah, that feeling comes through, but I
 have a bad habit of coming on so strong that women run. In the case of
 the lady in question, I spent eight years pursuing her, and she told me
 pretty much nonstop that I was a wonderful guy who was too good for
 her. Hell, I'm involved with a woman now who's telling me the same
 thing.

 TG> There might be a certain "fear-of-failure" playing behind this, which
 TG> might account for little things in your behaviour which give that
 TG> message to the lady. Are you trying to hard to be a friend, at the cost
 TG> of trying to start a relationship? A good test is, seeing if you make
 TG> excuses against actions which could deepen her involvement with you.

 No, actually it's the other way around; I want a wife so damn bad that
 I can't seem to deal with just being a friend. I come on at warp thirty
 and scare them off so that they can't get so close they'll break my
 heart. But they always do, because like a moron I set myself up for it
 every time...

 TG> Well, that's enough. Please don't send me hate-mail for this ;-) just
 TG> sticking my beak in.

 Hey, it's okay. Talking about it helps me sort out my neuroses. I
 appreciate the feedback.


... I hold a cup of wisdom, but there is nothing within.
--- RA/FD/FMail
 * Origin: The Eclectic Fox -- Memphis TN  (901)327-1008 (1:123/10)

Ä [20] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 106 of 233
 From : Michael Harper                      1:123/10        .óá 04 .àé 96 08:14
 To   : Eric Fishbein
 Subj : VOYAGER DOC?
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Tossing back another tequila, Eric Fishbein told Michael Harper about
VOYAGER DOC?...

 EF> Ah, but that doesn't discount the fact that there are AIs (or
 EF> AI LIKE) subroutines running on a computer that isn't supposed to be
 EF> sentient.  How can part of the machine be alive while the whole is
 EF> not?  Can certain of our organs die without us rejecting them?
 EF> It just doesn't seem likely to me that the Doctor could be a whole,
 EF> independent, functioning individual without some sort of higher power
 EF> governing his actions.  If this is the case, what was that little
 EF> creature the Enterprise's computers spawned at the end of the TNG run?

 Hey, I just chalked it up to another Trek inconsistency... but,
 theoretically, the Doctor could appear to be an AI without it being the
 case; after all, he has the full power of the Voyager's computer cores
 to draw from, and a program base that duplicates in exacting detail the
 mind of his creator and about fifteen thousand gp's and specialists,
 everything from chest cutters to gynos to brain squeezers to gas
 passers, or whatever the hell they call anesthesiologists in the
 future. The point being that he may look like an AI and not be.
 Personally, I'm of the opinion that if it walks and talks like a duck,
 it's probably another Trek inconsistency.


... "Miss, your brain is not on file." --Doc Zimmerman
--- RA/FD/FMail
 * Origin: The Eclectic Fox -- Memphis TN  (901)327-1008 (1:123/10)

Ä [20] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 107 of 233
 From : Michael Harper                      1:123/10        .óá 04 .àé 96 08:14
 To   : Frank Glover
 Subj : Voyager Doc?
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Tossing back another tequila, Frank Glover told Michael Harper about
Voyager Doc?...

 FG> The Adventures of Captain Dunsel, I guess...

 Exactamundo, Francesco. Drama goes right out the window. Show follows
 it not long after.

... "Even our best footage won't stop them!" -- Crow T. Robot
--- RA/FD/FMail
 * Origin: The Eclectic Fox -- Memphis TN  (901)327-1008 (1:123/10)

Ä [20] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 108 of 233
 From : Bob Klahn                           1:234/2         .ÿò 03 .àé 96 15:25
 To   : Todd Sullivan
 Subj : DR. WHO
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 TS> Reports from the Interior indicate that Bob Klahn leaked the following
 TS> to Ronald De Graaf, re: DR. WHO

 RDG>>> The BBC TVepisodes were not the highpoint of quality, either.....

 BK>>  What are you talking about? Their special effects budget alone must
 BK>> have exceeded $5.95. That's per episode too.

 TS> In 1970's dollars, too. :^)

 TS> I think that was part of its charm.  You had to admire the guts
 TS> necessary to use light reflecting off a plastic ballon to represent an
 TS> "alien" presence, after the initial, "Oh, God!  That's awful!" reaction.

 I believe it. I think that was one reason for it's success. They had to
 depend on writing and acting to carry the show. Of course, some of the
 early acting was very hammy, and the scripts also. Many of the actors were
 actually very prominent. It's kinda fun to watch some performance of
 Shakespear and pick out Dr. Who performers.

 I recall the appearance of Mark Wing Davies, (Zaphod Beeblebrox) as
 Richard III.

Bob Klahn

... Start a download.  Get a beer.  Multitasking!
 * Silver Xpress V4.02B03 RB10275

--- FLAME v1.1
 * Origin: Telnet toltbbs.com or call 313-854-6001, Boardwatch #55 (1:234/2)

Ä [20] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 109 of 233
 From : Bob Klahn                           1:234/2         .ÿò 03 .àé 96 15:25
 To   : The Raven
 Subj : HIGHLANDER NEWS!
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 TR>  "This just in from our Moscow Bureau..."

 BK>> Yes, I saw the first movie. There is no explanation at all why the
 BK>> last immortal should gain this power yet immortals as a group do not
 BK>> have this power.

 TR>      More on this below.

 BK>> Take all that and it adds up to magic

 TR>      Ah!  The light of day shines through to his clouded brain!

 Obscured by the glare of the arrogance displayed there.

 TR>      Very good, Bob, you hit it the first time.  Magic is exactly what
 TR>      it is. It has never been presented as anything else except in that
 TR>      abortion of a second film... and *that* has been disowned and
 TR>      nullified by the producers.

 It has never been formally presented as magic at all anywhere I have seen.
 If they are going to make it magic when do they bring on the dragons and
 mages? Maybe they can make it every bit as silly as 'Kung Fu, the Legend
 Continues."

 BK>> Sorry, unless they want to call this a show about magic, I reject magic
 BK>> as an explanation for anything. If there is no explanation it's magic.

 TR>      I would have to use both hands to count the times they (the
 TR>      characters in the show) call what they are and what they can do
 TR>      "magic".  The usual phrase used is "Its a kind of magic".  Hell,

 An simple explanation for something they don't understand. Considering
 that even MacLeod would have known nothing about Genetics 400 years ago,
 that explanation would have been normal for him. I suppose we can beleive
 all the old medicines which are now claimed to have actual theraputic
 properties were, infact, actually working by magic. After all, that's what
 they beleived then.

 TR>      Duncan MacLeod once described the Immortals as being Changlings,
 TR>      the children of faeries switched for human children.  There is no
 TR>      explanation because it *is* magic, it has *always* been magic, and
 TR>      I want to know where you have been that you *don't* know this?

 I want to know why you believe a silly explanation like that. I want to
 know why you believe the explanation derived from celtic mythology of 400
 years ago. Of course, they could bring in the faeries and really go down
 the tubes.

 BK>> The show makes a lot more sense if you get rid of the magic and move
 BK>> it toward a more rational basis.

 TR>      I'm still wondering when you are going to answer my original
 TR>      question and tell us all *why* you think (and you alone on the
 TR>      planet, as far as I can tell) that they need to get rid of the
 TR>      magic and move to rationality. This is not a science fiction
 TR>      series, Bob.  It's fantasy.  Always has been.

 Read the echo, at least two other people ask similar questions to mine.

 As to the rest, even if fantasy does not have to be based completely on
 science, it should either have some rational basis or just go off on a
 completely different tangent. If they live in this world I expect them to
 obey the laws of science of this world.

 Until then, even magic needs some rationality to it. Otherwise it is meer
 silliness.

 BK>> Nothing wrong with escapist fantasy. I, however, distinguish between
 BK>> fantasy and SF. I prefer my SF straight.

 TR>      Then you are watching the wrong show.  It has never been "straight
 TR>      SF". Fantasy is a long and established genre of entertainment, and
 TR>      why you feel you need to put the one down in favor of the other is
 TR>      beyond me.

 Am I, or are you? I don't put down *good* fantasy, I do look for some
 internal consistency combined with a bit of rationality. Even fantasy can
 benefit from Occam's razor.

 BK>> Sorry if thinking for yourself is a sign of arrogance.

 TR>      No, deciding that the producers need to change their show because
 TR>      you hate fantasy is a sign of arrogance.

 Deliberately distorting what someone else says is something worse than
 arrogance.

 BK>> Accept it, or don't watch the show.  Its that simple.

 BK>> If enough of us don't watch the show there is no show.

 TR>      You no longer watching the show would be no loss.  There are
 TR>      millions of us who disagree with you, Bob.  I've been talking
 TR>      about this show on the net for four years now and you are the only
 TR>      person I've ever seen to have a problem with the basic premise.
 TR>      You are alone in your opinions, and the loss of your viewership
 TR>      will *not* be noticed.

 Your opinion. Completely unsupported by facts. As I said, seems there are
 at least two other people asking similar questions. And, again as I said,
 more people watch a bad episode of any of the Star Trek series than a good
 episode of Highlander.

 BK>> The rules are dumb because:

 TR>      I'm going to address these in clumps, and not in the original order
 TR> (because several of them can be lumped together).  But I will try to
 TR> address all of them.


 BK>> There is no rational explanation why there can't be 10,000.
 BK>> Why would immortals stop being born in 1980?

 TR>      These are arbitrary numbers set by the producers as guidelines for
 TR> producers and writers.  They were arbitrarily set at the beginning of
 TR> the series and have never been set out in the broadcast show.
 TR>      These are rules of convenience required by the premise that there
 TR>      can be only a single Immortal remaining.  Implicitly, because of
 TR>      this premise, there must be a finite number of Immortals.  The one
 TR>      in a million number was also set arbitrarily.  There is no
 TR>      explanation in story terms for either of these things.

 Gee, isn't that last line what I have been saying?

 BK>> There is no explanation how anyone can outfight an immortal who has
 BK>> even one kill.

 TR>      Luck and skill have their place.  Duncan trains constantly, has
 TR>      had, as you mentioned, four hundred years of practice, and has
 TR>      made close to eighty kills (as shown on the series).  Methos, on
 TR>      the other hand, hardly ever practices, has had one kill in the
 TR>      last 250 years, but has 5,000+ years of accumulated power to his
 TR>      credit.  The two are virtually equal in fighting skill.

 Gaining all of a person's power would increase your power by the total of
 your oppent's kills plus his original power. IOW, Kill someone with 80
 kills any you become a minimum 81 times as powerful as someone with no
 kills. You are talking unbeatable there. No combination of training or
 luck could outweigh that. If the average of those 80 kills had 2 kills
 that's 240 times. Three for each of the eighty. He should explode from all
 that power. Maybe he can take Dean Caine's place as superman.

 BK>> There is no explanation how the final victor will aquire powers no
 BK>> immortal currently displays. Where would this new power come from
 BK>> simply because there are no other immortals?

 TR>      It's magic.  Live with it.

 It's silly, dump it.

 BK>> Some immortals will die anyway at the hands of the normal humans.
 BK>> Beheading has long been a method of execution. If you cut someone's
 BK>> head off it doesn't matter who did it, he's dead. If that were not
 BK>> true then the episode where the mentally retarded immortal commits
 BK>> suicide by putting his head on the train track would not work.
 BK>> How will these normal induced deaths affect the final outcome.

 TR>      They won't.  The last remaining get's the Prize.  It doesn't
 TR>      matter how he becomes the last.

 Again, it's silly.

 BK>> Withoug rational explanations all this becomes simply magic. If
 BK>> you're going to allow magic, why not magicians, wizards and warlocks
 BK>> and witches? Why not dragons and goblins, and just turn the whole
 BK>> series into something completely different?

 TR>      Because that's not what the series is about.  Or has this just slid
 TR> past your capabilities to comprehend.

 Has proper discourse slid past your ability to control yourself?

 If the show is based on magic, then it should open with a commentator
 explaining that it is based in an alternate universe where magic works.

 *Magic does not work in the real world.*

Bob Klahn

 * Silver Xpress V4.02B03 RB10275

--- FLAME v1.1
 * Origin: Telnet toltbbs.com or call 313-854-6001, Boardwatch #55 (1:234/2)

Ä [20] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 110 of 233
 From : Bob Klahn                           1:234/2         .ÿò 03 .àé 96 15:25
 To   : Terry Riley
 Subj : HIGHLANDER NEWS!
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
BK>>  Why would immortals stop being born in 1980?

 TR> According to Joe Dawson in the episode in which a girl claimed Richie
 TR> was the father of her child, no immortal has ever had a child.
 TR> This would suggest to me that the gene which produces immortals is
 TR> recessive. When it crops up and produces an immortal, it is not
 TR> transmitted to future generations. Eventually, the gene would cease to
 TR> exist, except in the form of living immortals. 1980 is as good a time
 TR> as any for the last gene to produce the last immortal.

 A reasonable explanation, however, the immortals involved would  not know
 this. Also, if the gene is simply recessive, it may still continue for a
 long time, esp if it's linked to something of value. Just as Sickle Cell
 is linked to a resistance to malaria.

 Of course, mules are very seldom fertile, and they are a cross between two
 different, though related, animals. Maybe the immortals are actually the
 product of a cross between humans and some other species long ago.

Bob Klahn

... WINDowError:001 Windows loaded. System in danger.
 * Silver Xpress V4.02B03 RB10275

--- FLAME v1.1
 * Origin: Telnet toltbbs.com or call 313-854-6001, Boardwatch #55 (1:234/2)

Ä [20] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 111 of 233
 From : Bob Klahn                           1:234/2         .óá 04 .àé 96 19:42
 To   : Eric Fishbein
 Subj : EDUCATION THROUGH FIC
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 >>  I would argue that the entire Star Trek series represents a decline
 >> in
 >>  educational standards. The lack of valid scientific basis for much
 >> of
 >>  anything is the basis for my saying this. I'd like to see real
 >> scientific
 >>  knowledge extrapolated to the future.

 EF>         So you don't let your kids read any science fiction?  The whole
 EF>         idea of sci-fi is anything that takes place in the future.  How

 How you reach that conclusion is beyond me. Saying ST lacks scientific
 accuracy equates to rejecting all SF? I don't think so. I even let my kids
 watch ST. I just wish it was better.

 EF>         you can prove anything 400 years from now will actually be
 EF>         based on ANYTHING even similar to today's science is beyond me.

 You can't. You can, however, do the best you can. If you take all the
 rules off you have the most outrageous fantasy. Not bad if it's done well,
 but it's not SF.

 EF>         Star Trek is good for the immagination, and its one of the few
 EF>         shows on TV that actually has some moral standards, unlike most
 EF>         other TV which is pure, unadulterated CRAP.  ST is really big

 Moral standards? Don't you recall all those shows with crewmembers and
 guests bedhopping? Worf and Alexander's mother mated, but did not marry.
 She rejected marriage.

 The "Prime Directive," in it's ST incarnation, is one of the most amoral
 things I can think of.

 EF>         in other countries, including India for just these reasons, it
 EF>         makes you think. Ask some of the guys in NASA what was one of
 EF>         their inspirations in getting involved with the space program,
 EF>         and 2:1 they'll probably give Star Trek as one of them.  Not
 EF>         bad for a show not based on fact...

 Sure, it got them in. And for those who went on to careers in science it
 led them to further knowledge. For those who didn't, there was just the
 residue of mis-information. The original series had an excuse, I expect
 improvement as time goes on.

 BTW, making complaints like this is one big way those improvements are
 encouraged. Let them know people care.

Bob Klahn

... Only those who attempt the absurd achieve the impossible.
 * Silver Xpress V4.02B03 RB10275

--- FLAME v1.1
 * Origin: Telnet toltbbs.com or call 313-854-6001, Boardwatch #55 (1:234/2)

Ä [20] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 112 of 233
 From : Bob Klahn                           1:234/2         .óá 04 .àé 96 19:42
 To   : Frank Glover
 Subj : SOFT/SLAVER WEAPON
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
BK>>   LED>     I thought Niven might finally succumb to a backstory about
BK>>  the
BK>>   LED> origins of the Puppeter race with some explanation about why
BK>>  the
BK>>   LED> Puppeters were so timid.

 FG>    Some of the new fill material between the stories in the Crashlander
 FG> collection addresses some of these points. If you (and Niven) accept the
 FG> Man-Kzin Wars stories as part of his continuity, Mark O. Martin and Greg

 Your message was addressed to me, but you only replied to LED's part of
 the msg.

 No biggie, but incase you missed it...

Bob Klahn

... Do still life on your computer -- run WinDOZE..
 * Silver Xpress V4.02B03 RB10275

--- FLAME v1.1
 * Origin: Telnet toltbbs.com or call 313-854-6001, Boardwatch #55 (1:234/2)

Ä [20] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 113 of 233
 From : Bob Klahn                           1:234/2         .óá 04 .àé 96 19:42
 To   : Eric Fishbein
 Subj : VOYAGER DOC?
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 EF>        Strange, after seeing a great B5 episode about "Camelot" the
 EF>        week of Jackie O's auction, and then watching a really lame
 EF>        Voyager a day later, I know which show now holds the higher
 EF>        social status.

 That was a bad episode for B5, yet it was still a pretty good show. A good
 episode is great.

Bob Klahn

... General failure reading drive A: Please remove your fist.
 * Silver Xpress V4.02B03 RB10275

--- FLAME v1.1
 * Origin: Telnet toltbbs.com or call 313-854-6001, Boardwatch #55 (1:234/2)

Ä [20] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 114 of 233
 From : Bob Klahn                           1:234/2         .óá 04 .àé 96 19:42
 To   : Frank Glover
 Subj : STAR TREK GENERATIONS
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
EF>>     That brings up another question:  Did Data actually have a toilet
EF>>  in his quarters?

 FG>    But I have to assume that Data was given conventional quarters, and

 On a ship like the Enterprise their would be no reason for conventional
 quarters. I suspect every room could be customized.

 FG>    simply never used it. (Guests might always need it, after all.)

 This is an excellent point. It would suit Data's character to want to
 avoid inconveniencing his guests.

Bob Klahn

... "No more experimental surgery for me," Tom said half-heartedly.
 * Silver Xpress V4.02B03 RB10275

--- FLAME v1.1
 * Origin: Telnet toltbbs.com or call 313-854-6001, Boardwatch #55 (1:234/2)

Ä [20] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 115 of 233
 From : Bob Klahn                           1:234/2         .óá 04 .àé 96 19:44
 To   : Bill Clements
 Subj : EDUCATION THROUGH FIC
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 BC> From the desk of a cynical old man...
 BC>
 BC> Posted 28 Apr 96 - BOB KLAHN to BILL CLEMENTS
 BC>
 BK>>  I'm willing to bet you can't make a valid case for declining
 BK>> educational  standards in the US at all. I've heard this over and over
 BK>> and never seen the  evidence presented. It's always some study
 BK>> somebody did, but no supporting  data provided.

 BC> The case was made 16 years ago when Robert A. Heinlein addressed
 BC> the Decline of Education in "EXPANDED UNIVERSE". I suggest that

 ...

 BC> office. I do have proof, on file right in this room. I started
 BC> clipping and filing by categories on trends as early as 1930 and
 BC> my "youngest" file was started in 1945.

 BC> I sincerely doubt that, upon her husbands death, Virginia
 BC> Heinlein destroyed the aforementioned evidence. As she is
 BC> renewing copyrights and keeping his work in publication, I am
 BC> sure that she can be contacted through her publisher.

 Please do so, I wish those who support that point of view would produce
 the evidence. Reminds me of the 2000 yr old quote on the decline of
 standards.
 ...

 BC> There is not now nor has there ever been any _GOOD_(hard)_
 BC> science fiction on television. (That should get me some hate
 BC> mail.) See my posted quote from Henry Kuttner for a definition of

 If I have it.

 I think the old "Twilight Zone" was about the best.

 BC> good science fiction. I will say nothing defending TNG other than
 BC> the fact that I _LIKE_ most of the characters. TNG may be

 As do I.

 BC> mindless but it is entertaining. As to B5 and S:AAB, I have yet
 BC> to watch a complete episode of either one, usually before the
 BC> first commercial break I turn off the T.V. and read or fire up

 I do that frequently for almost any show, this damn computer eats up a lot
 of my time. I still find B5 and S:AAB excellent.

 BC> In Florida an employees responsibilities are:
 BC>
 BC>   Not to be caught stealing from his employer.
 BC>
 BC>   Nor to be insubordinate to his employer, or to his employer's
 BC>   agents or assigns, before another employee or a customer of
 BC>   said employer.
 BC>
 BC> No mention is made of earning one's pay by doing the job that one
 BC> was hired to do. I may be a bit old fashioned but, _THAT'S_A_
 BC> CROCK_. Individuals that do not work acceptably by the standards
 BC> of their employer, should not be allowed to continue working, nor
 BC> should they be paid for the time that they put in.

 If you allow him to continue to work you are tacitly accepting the quality
 of his work.

 I'm not sure what you mean "Guidlines for Terminating Employees." Are you
 saying you cannot fire them, or are you referring to denying them
 unemployment compensation. If it's the latter, the only valid reason is
 something the employee does deliberately. If a worker can't do the work
 that does not mean that worker is not entitled to unemployment comp. There
 are a great many reasons an employee may not be able to do the work when
 he was an excellent employee previously.

 BC>
 BC> The subject of this thread is EDUCATION THROUGH FICTION. My
 BC> premise in starting this thread was that:
 BC>
 BC>   Science Fiction has historically had a higher percentage of
 BC>   educational content than any other form of fiction and that in
 BC>   recent years this content has been dropping.

Bob Klahn

... "Here, hold this grenade.  I just dropped the pin on the floor."
 * Silver Xpress V4.02B03 RB10275

--- FLAME v1.1
 * Origin: Telnet toltbbs.com or call 313-854-6001, Boardwatch #55 (1:234/2)

Ä [20] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 116 of 233
 From : Bob Klahn                           1:234/2         .óá 04 .àé 96 19:44
 To   : Kevin Ahearn
 Subj : SPOILEREVIEW: SIC 'EM
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 BK>>  He's much to decent for that, more like a humane execution.

 KA> I dunno...I got the idea from an episode from last season (or was it
 KA> early THIS season?) in which Morden asked Vir what his greatest wish
 KA> was.  Vir gave an answer similar to the idea I mentioned.

 Occasionally I miss an episode. Missed a bunch last season. Then somebody
 tells me something makes me really wish I'd seen it.

Bob Klahn

... Taglines: Steal all you want... we'll make more....
 * Silver Xpress V4.02B03 RB10275

--- FLAME v1.1
 * Origin: Telnet toltbbs.com or call 313-854-6001, Boardwatch #55 (1:234/2)

Ä [20] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 117 of 233
 From : Scott Royall                        1:106/357       .cê 05 .àé 96 10:21
 To   : Michael Harper
 Subj : Voyager Doc?
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Michael,

Saturday May 04 1996 06:17, Michael Harper wrote to Scott Royall:

 MH>  I can't answer that one. In my own universe, AIs were used as primary
 MH>  control in an arcological society; they ran everything in the
 MH>  buildings, leaving humans free to pursue what they wish as long as it
 MH>  didn't interfere with the smooth operation of the environment. Of
 MH>  course, one of them got sick and killed off his entire population,
 MH>  convinced that they were trying to kill him...

But, the above scenario stil places the AIs in positions of absolute authority.
I don't because I understand, being a programmer, that all software has bugs.
Like their creators, AIs make mistakes.  Only they would do it with extreme
speed and resolve.  The Nebula ship are very clear about their role in
Starfleet, and there is a strict process they must follow to just relieve their
captains of duty.

 MH>  I don't know about other writers, but I made Zeus into a villain because
 MH>  I wanted an apparently unstoppable opponent for my protagonist. How do
 MH>  you fight an intelligent city?

Oh, I don't know, EMP charges come to mind.  Failing that, a good old-fashion
power spike would do. :)  I think that people don't understand that a brain, be
it electronic or biological, is most fragile.

As for a good antagonist, try a race of AIs bent on ending all life (a al Fred
Saberhagen's Berserkers).  That's what is going on now in my RPG, and, without
the support of the Nebulas, the player characters would be quite dead. :)


Scott

sroyal@accesscomm.net
royall@shellus.com
FAX: 713-556-5464

--- GoldED/2 2.50+
 * Origin:  scott.royall@conch.cld9.com  713-556-5464  (1:106/357)

Ä [20] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 118 of 233
 From : Don Bach                            1:3632/65       .óá 04 .àé 96 21:09
 To   : Earl Green
 Subj : Fort Smith Explosion
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
I haven't heard anything about an explosion in your town in the news.  Was this
toxic materials?  I'm glad you're ok.  Was anyone hurt?  You aren't very far
from me (~4 hour drive?)

Feeble attempt to remain on-topic:  Are your Dr. Who Gifs ok, also?

Don

--- Maximus 3.01
 * Origin: No Regrets, Clinton, MS (601)924-8247 9P-5A (1:3632/65)

Ä [20] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 119 of 233
 From : Michael Harper                      1:123/10        .óá 04 .àé 96 21:01
 To   : All
 Subj : something wonderful
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
I just saw something truly astonishing. I know it's all stunt work, but
it blew my mind regardless.

Lucy Lawless, soaking wet, clad only in her leathers, beat the snot out
of six guys, armed only with a fish.

Well, three fish, actually. On a stringer.

Talk about administering the Salmon of Correction...


... "Ow. That's gotta _hurt_." --Hercules
--- RA/FD/FMail
 * Origin: The Eclectic Fox -- Memphis TN  (901)327-1008 (1:123/10)

Ä [20] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 120 of 233
 From : Roy Stevens                         1:108/205       .ÿò 03 .àé 96 23:07
 To   : The Raven
 Subj : HIGHLANDER NEWS!
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
TR> BK> Nothing wrong with escapist fantasy. I, however, distinguish between
TR> BK> fantasy and SF. I prefer my SF straight.

TR>     Then you are watching the wrong show.  It has never been "straight SF".
TR>Fantasy is a long and established genre of entertainment, and why you feel y
TR>need to put the one down in favor of the other is beyond me.

And let's not forget, just because we don't understand how it works,
doesn't mean there's not a rational explanation for it.

TR>     Luck and skill have their place.  Duncan trains constantly, has had, as
TR>you mentioned, four hundred years of practice, and has made close to eighty
TR>kills (as shown on the series).  Methos, on the other hand, hardly ever
TR>practices, has had one kill in the last 250 years, but has 5,000+ years of
TR>accumulated power to his credit.  The two are virtually equal in fighting
TR>skill.

Let's not forget cheating.  Personally, I'd just shoot my opponent, and
then chop off his head while he's regenerating.

TR> BK> There is no explanation how the final victor will aquire powers
no TR> BK> immortal currently displays. Where would this new power come

from TR> BK> simply because there are no other immortals?

TR>     It's magic.  Live with it.

In the movies, the only power Conner seemed to display as the last
immortal that others didn't is that he got older.  Not all that great
a power, though he seemed to like it.  Course, he did become a god as
shown in "Mortal Combat" :>

TR> BK> Some immortals will die anyway at the hands of the normal

humans. TR> BK> Beheading has long been a method of execution. If you
cut someone's TR> BK> head off it doesn't matter who did it, he's dead.
If that were not TR> BK> true then the episode where the mentally
retarded immortal commits TR> BK> suicide by putting his head on the
train track would not work. TR> BK> How will these normal induced deaths
affect the final outcome.

TR>     They won't.  The last remaining get's the Prize.  It doesn't matter how
TR>becomes the last.

Remember when the Watchers were introduced?  The renegade group going
around executing Immortals like Darius (on holy ground yet!)  IIRC, they
lamented the "lost quickening"

TR> BK> Withoug rational explanations all this becomes simply magic. If
TR> BK> you're going to allow magic, why not magicians, wizards and

warlocks TR> BK> and witches? Why not dragons and goblins, and just turn
the whole TR> BK> series into something completely different?

TR>     Because that's not what the series is about.  Or has this just slid pas
TR>your capabilities to comprehend.

The 3rd movie had magic.  Remember all the illusions?  BTW, does Conner
now have that power?

TR> BK> Do you know why your petty criticism won't hold water? Because

more TR> BK> people watch the worst episode of Star Trek than the best
episode of TR> BK> Highlander. TR> BK>> ... If you don't respect what
you are doing, don't expect anyone else TR> BK>> to.

The people I know either watch both or neither

TR> BK> ... Fatal Error: You're dead.

Not without taking my head :)

 * SLMR 2.1a * "How To Make New Friends" by Victor Frankenstein

--- TMail v1.31.5
 * Origin: MultiSystem * Cincinnati, OH * 513-231-7013 * (1:108/205)

Ä [20] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 121 of 233
 From : Kateri Dailey                       1:133/1063      .cê 05 .àé 96 01:33
 To   : Thomas Gladwin
 Subj : Re: Chris Elliot's sitcom
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Chris Elliots sitcom was pretty funny, I loved the idiocy of the way he acted
and stuff kinda reminds me of this friend I had, he was soo much like chris it
was eerie. well any way, I thought I would put my two cent's in,
                                Bethany
                                 (Lei)
--- CNet/3
 * Origin: Inside OUT BBS (404) 325-8476 - /\tlanta, GA. (1:133/1063)

Ä [20] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 122 of 233
 From : Bethany Hipple                      1:133/1063      .cê 05 .àé 96 02:13
 To   : Kateri Dailey
 Subj : Re: Chris Elliot's sitcom
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Okay sorry that was a mistake kateri ane me were messing around, I agree with
her though, I knew the same guy.

--- CNet/3
 * Origin: Inside OUT BBS (404) 325-8476 - /\tlanta, GA. (1:133/1063)

Ä [20] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 123 of 233
 From : Michael Harper                      1:123/10        .cê 05 .àé 96 10:05
 To   : James Walton
 Subj : Sound In Space
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Tossing back another tequila, James Walton told Michael Harper about
Sound In Space...

 JW> Money!  The viewing public has proven time and again that they will
 JW> flock immediately to the same old thing, but stay away from anything
 JW> new.

 Greed. Same old motivation as always. That, and they figure that if
 it's sci-fi, it's got a built-in audience. The aggravating thing is, in
 this case they're right. I'll go see it, if only to see what kind of
 job Stan Winston has done on the effects.


... Sleeping isn't the problem. Waking up, that's a problem.
--- RA/FD/FMail
 * Origin: The Eclectic Fox -- Memphis TN  (901)327-1008 (1:123/10)

Ä [20] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 124 of 233
 From : Tom Bavis                           1:2613/313      .óá 04 .àé 96 19:20
 To   : Lawrence E Dunlap
 Subj : Soft/Slaver Weapon
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Maybe your thinking of _The Ringworld Throne_ due shortly from Larry
Niven.  The Ringworld Engineers ws quite a few years back. Not as good
as the original IMHO.

--- QScan/PCB v1.17b / 01-0406
 * Origin: Knight Moves - Rochester,NY 716-865-2106 (1:2613/313)

Ä [20] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 125 of 233
 From : Bill Warren                         1:102/749       .cê 05 .àé 96 18:19
 To   : Michael Harper
 Subj : Remakes
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

MH>   More so than you'd think; Forbidden Planet has been in constant
MH>  video
MH>   release for twenty years, and Criterion released a restored
MH>  laserdisc
MH>   version a few years ago. The thing that grumps me is that they're
MH>   redoing a classic, and there's no need for it. There are stories
MH>  enough
MH>   in sf that have never been touched; why are they doing this?

Same reason that INVASION OF THE BODY SNATCHERS and others were remade: to make
money.

--- QuickBBS 2.80 GoldBase (Zeta-1)
 * Origin: Hooray For Hollywood * Los Angeles,CA -=- 213-653-7508 (1:102/749)

Ä [20] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 126 of 233
 From : Nicolai Shapero                     1:102/524       .cê 05 .àé 96 22:12
 To   : Jan De Smedt
 Subj : Julian May - Magnificat
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <May 02 12:34>, Jan De Smedt (2:292/403.2) wrote to All:

 JD>The novel concludes _the Galactic Milieu_ trilogy.

 JD>Can someone please give me more info about this book, like:
 JD>- publisher,
 JD>- year
 JD>- ISBN number
 JD>- price

ISBN 0-679-44177-8, Copyright 1996 by Starykon Productions, Inc.  Alfred A.
Knopf, publisher, New York, 1996.  My copy is an SF Book Club edition, so I
don't have a current price (sorry about that).

-- Nicolai Shapero, the Mad Russian Sysop of StormGate Aerie

--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [20] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 127 of 233
 From : Frank Glover                        1:2613/477      .cê 05 .àé 96 19:38
 To   : Lis Carey
 Subj : Re: BOAT OF A MILLION YEARS
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

LC>  How exactly are you defining "S-Ffy" if you regard a book about
LC>  people
LC>  who are immortal due to a genetic quirk as "not truly S-Ffy" until it
LC>  reaches the present day?
LC>
LC>  Are you saying that "historical novel" covers it for the earlier
LC>  portions?
LC>
LC>  If so, I can't agree with that. Without its sfnal premise, none of
LC>  the
LC>  story in BOAT OF A MILLION YEARS can happen.

  It is a rare genetic quirk (that is, no magic) that allows the main characters
seemingly indefinite (but not truly immortal. Though fast healers, they most
certainly can be killed by conventional means, and some are.) life spans.

   But it is largely an historical novel until nearly the present day. (They go
public, and geneticists study them to learn what keeps them going. Later, when
starships [not even FTL] become possible, some of them leave what is becoming an
uninteresting Earth.

   That, I suppose, is what I meant by it not being S-Ffy, until about 1975.
Before that, they simply conceal their life spans, and live like their
contemporaries, while seeking out others like themselves...simply for social and
companionship needs.

   Frank


--- QuickBBS 2.80 (Zeta-1)
 * Origin: The Matrix Data Bank BBS, Rochester, Ny (1:2613/477)

Ä [20] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 128 of 233
 From : Frank Glover                        1:2613/477      .cê 05 .àé 96 19:41
 To   : Bob Klahn
 Subj : Re: SOFT/SLAVER WEAPON
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

BK>   Your message was addressed to me, but you only replied to LED's part
BK>  of
BK>   the msg.
BK>
BK>   No biggie, but incase you missed it...

  Sorry about that. Hopefully he saw it anyway....

   Frank


--- QuickBBS 2.80 (Zeta-1)
 * Origin: The Matrix Data Bank BBS, Rochester, Ny (1:2613/477)

Ä [20] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 129 of 233
 From : Frank Glover                        1:2613/477      .cê 05 .àé 96 19:47
 To   : Bob Klahn
 Subj : Re: STAR TREK GENERATIONS
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

BK>   FG>    simply never used it. (Guests might always need it, after
BK>  all.)
BK>
BK>   This is an excellent point. It would suit Data's character to want
BK>  to
BK>   avoid inconveniencing his guests.

   And now that I think about it, there's the matter of cleaning the litter
box....

   Also, we were told, back inthat episode with the Irish-descended colonists
that "...the ship can clean itself." (Her response, after trying to scrub a
stain from the deck; "Well. Good for the bloody ship!") One wonders just how far
it can go? Stains? Dust? Romulan ale spills? Blood? Cat droppings? *Whole* cats?
That technology was never elaborate upon anywhere else I know of....

   Frank


--- QuickBBS 2.80 (Zeta-1)
 * Origin: The Matrix Data Bank BBS, Rochester, Ny (1:2613/477)

Ä [20] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 130 of 233
 From : Frank Glover                        1:2613/477      .cê 05 .àé 96 19:53
 To   : All
 Subj : Re: Billy Borg
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

MG>  ... I am Porky of Borg. P-p-p-p-pre-a-pre-p-p-p-p-p. Aw, give up.

   This reminds me...anyone seen the cover of the current issue of Boardwatch
magazine, with `Billgatus of Borg?'

   I loved it!

   Frank


--- QuickBBS 2.80 (Zeta-1)
 * Origin: The Matrix Data Bank BBS, Rochester, Ny (1:2613/477)

Ä [20] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 131 of 233
 From : Frank Glover                        1:2613/477      .cê 05 .àé 96 20:00
 To   : Michael Harper
 Subj : Re: Sound In Space
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

MH>   version a few years ago. The thing that grumps me is that they're
MH>   redoing a classic, and there's no need for it. There are stories
MH>  enough
MH>   in sf that have never been touched; why are they doing this?

   It worked once, and Hollywood has this way of re-doing to death (not simply
sequeling, though that can reach overkill, too) that which worked once.

  After the success Alien and ET enjoyed, how many knock-offs were there? They
just don't usually wait as long as Forbidden Planet....

   Now in all fairness, there's a *chance* it might be as good or better than
the original (besides special effects, of course), and there's a *chance* I
might win the state lottery, too.

   Frank


--- QuickBBS 2.80 (Zeta-1)
 * Origin: The Matrix Data Bank BBS, Rochester, Ny (1:2613/477)

Ä [20] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 132 of 233
 From : Todd Sullivan                       1:202/720.3     .óá 04 .àé 96 18:30
 To   : Thomas Gladwin
 Subj : STAR TREK GENERATIONS
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Reports from the Interior indicate that Thomas Gladwin leaked the following to
Sue Squires, re: STAR TREK GENERATIONS

 SS>>  Hmm.  I've always wondered about the relative merits of each approach.
 SS>>  At least a cat would catch the vermin out where you had enough room
 SS>>  to maneuvre it into oblivion if it didn't eat it.  With venting, I've
 TG> Yah, but were are the vermin supposed to come from in the first place?
 TG> Surely it would be easier to keep loading bays etc sterile?

In theory, yes, but in practice, no.

Hell, rats can't be kept off ships *today*, even with rigorous preventative
measures.  They're cunning little buggers.

Sterile?  With germ-ridden passengers and crew aboard?  Not possible.

Todd Sullivan

... "Technology...the knack of so arranging the world that we don't have
     to experience it." --Max Frisch

-*- ASTG 1.9

--- Spot 1.3a Unregistered
 * Origin: Todd's Spot in the Continuum (1:202/720.3)

Ä [20] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 133 of 233
 From : Aaron Boyden                        1:206/2720      .cê 05 .àé 96 13:42
 To   : Marcus Green
 Subj : Starship Troopers
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 >  The Plot: After the debacle that was "Showgirls",
 > director Paul Verhoeven abandons bare thighs for sci-
 > fi. This big-budget space flick depicts an Earth
 > overrun by tenacious insects, and it's based on a
 > Robert Heinlein tale. TV's lovable Doogie Howser
 > (Harris) takes on the job of saving Earth from the
 > killer bugs.

 >  The director: Paul Verhoeven
 >  Distributor:  Columbia
 >  Release date: T.B.D

 > ***end quote****

 > Hmm, doesn't sound very promising... "Earth
 > overrun.."??? "Killer Bugs"????
 > doesn't even sound like the book that I just finished
 > re-reading...

There were killer bugs in _Starship Troopers_, though they never overran Earth.
However, one would think that the fellow who saves the Earth would be Rico.  A
small problem with Harris in that role is that, at least as I recall, Rico
wasn't white.


--- TosScan(q) 1.00
 * Origin: Remember:  Cthulhu Cthaves!  -Campus Crusade for Cthulhu (1:206/2720)

Ä [20] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 134 of 233
 From : Barbara Withrow                     1:2260/175      .cê 05 .àé 96 07:06
 To   : The Raven
 Subj : Question on 4 season
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE 1.1+
      Greetings,

      I would like to know if you have any information concerning the
      showing of the 4 th. season of Highlander on the USA network in the
      Eastern US. From what I have read in other postings, there are
      more episodes following the episodes "Finale" parts 1&2.  Is this
      correct?  After "Finale" 1 & 2 USA started showing a mixture of
      the previous seasons' shows.

      My cable system does not carry WGN which showed this 4th. season
      from what I can tell by the titles they list.

      I would really like to see the rest of them.  Any information on
      who will be showing the 4th season and any following would be
      appreciated.

      Also, would you or anyone else have a list of the show titles in
      order of presentation?  It would really be a helpful reference.

      Thanking you in advance.
      bj



... "You still have lots of time!" -- Duncan MacLeod
--- GEcho 1.10+
 * Origin: The Solutions BBS 606-329-9733 (1:2260/175)

Ä [20] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 135 of 233
 From : Earl Green                          1:3822/1        .îí 06 .àé 96 01:24
 To   : Don Bach
 Subj : FORT SMITH EXPLOSION
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

DB>I haven't heard anything about an explosion in your town in the news.  Was
DB>this toxic materials?  I'm glad you're ok.  Was anyone hurt?  You aren't ver
DB>far from me (~4 hour drive?)

  It was a furniture store across the street and several hundred feet to
  the west; when electrical service was finally restored to this area,
  the owner of that building had the power brought back up to full blast
  in his building.  Something sparked somewhere, the fire fed on the
  lovely chemicals, woods and polyurethanes that seem so common in
  furniture factories and stores, and it blew.  Two firefighters were
  treated for smoke inhalation, and two fellows on top of the building
  when it started to burn managed to escape with barely a scratch,
  amazingly enough!
     Between the tornado that hit this neighborhood and then the lovely
  bonfire, you can probably imagine that I feel like the wrath of the
  gods is concentrated on me, or something like that...<G>
     At any rate, I really lucked out on both of these counts.  The only
  casualties I suffered were my nerves...

DB>Feeble attempt to remain on-topic:  Are your Dr. Who Gifs ok, also?

  Nice try, nice try.  Phhhbbbt!  8-I
---
 * SLMR 2.0 * She tries to be unkind, she knows nothing of our world.

--- QScan/PCB v1.19b / 01-0162
 * Origin: Jackalope Junction 501-785-5381 Ft Smith AR (1:3822/1)

Ä [20] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 136 of 233
 From : Dallas Vinson                       1:373/5         .cê 05 .àé 96 01:28
 To   : TODD SULLIVAN
 Subj : Re: Kindred: The Embraced
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
I'm just still waiting to see the appearance of more of the clans.

Hell, San Francisco has one of the largest populations of Malkavians
in the U.S. besides New York and Chicago.  So where are all the Malks?

-Dallas (Gerold Kinkade, Prince - Athens, Al.)


... Reality-ometer:  [\........]  Hmmph!  Thought so...

___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20 [NR]

                                   VQWK 6.20I
  *ORIGIN: Pot of Gold (205)-650-0998 1:373/5

--- VFIDO 7.12
 * Origin: Pot of Gold (1:373/5)

Ä [20] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 137 of 233
 From : Dallas Vinson                       1:373/5         .cê 05 .àé 96 01:28
 To   : MICHAEL HARPER
 Subj : Re: Ark II
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
-=> Quoting Michael Harper @1:123/10 to Frank Glover @{echomail}* <=-
 MH@> Ark II was built, if memory serves, on a GMC Motorhome platform. To
 MH@> get a better look at one of those, watch "Stripes". The rolling stock
 MH@> for that super rv of theirs was the same vehicle. I don't know if the
 MH@> Ark II still exists on some back lot or no, but the Damnation Alley
 MH@> atv is in the posession of Gene Winfield Show Cars, along with a
 MH@> number of other famous film and tv vehicles...

As a matter of fact, yes, the Arc II is (or at least was as of '86) still
around.  It was built by the same company that built the vehicles from
Damnationa Alley as well as the Electro Car for Sid & Marty Krofts show:
Electro Woman & Dyno Girl.  The two big vehicles were sitting in the yard
of the company that built them just off the Hollywood Freeway in L.A. just
about 4 miles from Universal Studios.

But like I said, that was back in '86 before I left L.A.

-Dallas



... My other computer is a Commodore 64.

___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20 [NR]

                                   VQWK 6.20I
  *ORIGIN: Pot of Gold (205)-650-0998 1:373/5

--- VFIDO 7.12
 * Origin: Pot of Gold (1:373/5)

Ä [20] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 138 of 233
 From : Dallas Vinson                       1:373/5         .cê 05 .àé 96 01:28
 To   : LORI BROWN
 Subj : Re: Kindred: Embrace
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
-=> Quoting Lori Brown @1:363/1701 Vi to Todd Sullivan @{echomail} <=-

 LB@V> .AREA:SFFAN

 TS>  So, which one do you consider yourself?
 TS>
 TS>  Me?  Gangrel, of course. <G>

 LB@V> Toreador, of course! The artistic ones!

Oh please Lori...You Toreador?  That's a laugh.  The times I've met you at
STARFLEET functions, you struck me as being nowhere close to the kind of
person the the Toreador clan would embrace.

I'm sorry, but you strike me more as Brujah, or maybe even Ravnos more than
any other clan.

-Dallas Vinson, Operations Officer
-USS Wernher von Braun  NCC-72069

AND:

-Malkavian Prince of Athens, Al.



p.s.
    That's right Lori....I'M back........

... BEWARE - Tagline Thief in this echo

___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20 [NR]

                                   VQWK 6.20I
  *ORIGIN: Pot of Gold (205)-650-0998 1:373/5

--- VFIDO 7.12
 * Origin: Pot of Gold (1:373/5)

Ä [20] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 139 of 233
 From : Dallas Vinson                       1:373/5         .cê 05 .àé 96 01:28
 To   : THE RAVEN
 Subj : Re: Kindred: Embrace
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
-=> Quoting The Raven @1:363/309 Via to Todd Sullivan @{echomail} <=-

 TR@V> .AREA:SFFAN





 TR@V> "This just in from our Moscow Bureau..."

 TS>  So, which one do you consider yourself?
 TS>
 TS>  Me?  Gangrel, of course. <G>

 TR@V> Malks rule, man... Malks forever!


I HaVe tO AgReE CoMpLeTeLy.

-Gerold Kinkade
-Malkavian Prince, Athens, Al.


... Exercise your right to arm and keep bears!

___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20 [NR]

                                   VQWK 6.20I
  *ORIGIN: Pot of Gold (205)-650-0998 1:373/5

--- VFIDO 7.12
 * Origin: Pot of Gold (1:373/5)

Ä [20] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 140 of 233
 From : Dave MacLean                        1:259/536       .ÿò 03 .àé 96 02:25
 To   : Paul Worley
 Subj : stuff
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
thanks for the adress whenever we want to talk buying or selling i will e-mail
you.  my 2 addresses are cf603@freenet.toronto.on.ca or
dave.maclean@keroppi.yonet.org . do the cf first.  i will write you a message
and question in a few days.  buy 4 now and kkep on trekin.

dave



--- Maximus 2.01wb
 * Origin: USS Proxima = Toronto, Canada (416)265-3867 (1:259/536)

Ä [20] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 141 of 233
 From : David Johnston                      1:342/14        .cê 05 .àé 96 00:40
 To   : Marcus Green
 Subj : Starship Troopers
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
-> Hmm, doesn't sound very promising... "Earth overrun.."??? "Killer
-> Bugs"???? doesn't even sound like the book that I just finished
-> re-reading...

The book you finished did have "killer bugs".  I don't take PR releases
all that seriously, given that the people who write them normally
haven't actually read the script.

--- PCBoard (R) v15.21/100
 * Origin: Freddy's Place - Edm. AB - 28.8K (403) 456-4241 (1:342/14)

Ä [20] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 142 of 233
 From : Kay Shapero                         1:102/524       .îí 06 .àé 96 08:49
 To   : Michael Harper
 Subj : something wonderful
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <May 04 21:01>, Michael Harper (1:123/10) wrote to All:

 MH>Lucy Lawless, soaking wet, clad only in her leathers, beat the
 MH>snot out of six guys, armed only with a fish.

 MH>Well, three fish, actually. On a stringer.

 MH>Talk about administering the Salmon of Correction...

Wow - now there's a scene I wish I'd seen. :->  Maybe I should start watching
that thing myself.

--- msged 2.06
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Ä [20] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 143 of 233
 From : Tam Phan                            1:143/362       .îí 06 .àé 96 21:47
 To   : David Johnston
 Subj : Highlander News!
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 On 05-03-96 David Johnston wrote to Terry Riley...

 DJ> It suggests to me that immortality isn't genetic.

     That's correct. No Immortal has ever had, or will have
     a child.
---
 * OFFLINE 1.58 * MS-DOS is CP/M on steroids.

 * Origin:  (1:143/362)

Ä [20] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 144 of 233
 From : Paul Worley                         1:2601/515      .cê 05 .àé 96 02:33
 To   : Marcus Green
 Subj : sci fi trivia
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Hello Marcus!

03 May 96 14:59, Marcus Green wrote to Paul Worley:

 PW>>> Hello Dave!
 MG>> Hello Hal--(sorry, couldn't resist :-> )
 PW>> Good morning Dr. Chandra. I am ready for my first lesson today. :)
 MG>  "Daisy, daisy...Give me your answer true..." :>

"I'm half crazy all for the love of you."
(ps...it's "give me your answer, do")

 MG>> Uh, I picked this thread up in mid-discussion, are we
 MG>> talking about TOS? If so, then there were only 12 starships,
 MG>> not 13.(Your
 PW>> copying the question straight out of the Star Trek
 PW>> Concordance. They are listed under the heading for
 PW>> 'Starships'. It lists 13 ships.  What reference were you
 PW>> using?
 MG>  Actually, I was remembering it from an old paperback book I have
 MG> around here called " The Making of Star Trek", circa 1975, I
 MG> believe. I'll try to dig it out if you want...(G). It had lots of
 MG> "behind-the-scenes" interviews and stories and was VERY
 MG> entertaining to an impressionable 9-yr-old.

(My concordance is a first print, dated October, 1976 by Bjo Trimble.

Paul

--- GoldED 2.42.G0614
 * Origin: USS Wolf - Wheatland, PA  (1:2601/515)

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 Msg  : 145 of 233
 From : Robert Parson                       1:3822/1        .îí 06 .àé 96 14:37
 To   : Marcus Green
 Subj : RE: STARSHIP TROOPERS
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
MARCUS had a few words to say about Re: STARSHIP TROOPERS

 MG>     "DOOGIE HOWSER"???????!!!!

Barney and Baby Bop were involved in other projects.


 * Silver Xpress V4.3 SW23473

--- QScan/PCB v1.19b / 01-0162
 * Origin: Jackalope Junction 501-785-5381 Ft Smith AR (1:3822/1)

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 Msg  : 146 of 233
 From : Bob Klahn                           1:234/2         .îí 06 .àé 96 22:53
 To   : Lawrence E Dunlap
 Subj : SOFT/SLAVER WEAPON
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 LED>     Humans might have decided that point if the Puppeters had revealed
 LED> their lifespan in human years.

 Good points.

BOB KLAHN

... 72%...no, wait...75% of all statistics are made up on the spot.
 * Silver Xpress V4.3P RB10275

--- FLAME v1.1
 * Origin: Telnet toltbbs.com or call 313-854-6001, Boardwatch #55 (1:234/2)

Ä [20] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 147 of 233
 From : Tom Widera                          1:2613/313      .îí 06 .àé 96 20:22
 To   : All
 Subj : Strange Luck!!!
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
What's the story about STRANGE LUCK... will it be back on, or is it all
done?  Good show, but I would like to keep SLIDERS also. My FOX friday
line-up:    7:00pm-8:00pm   Sliders
            8:00pm-9:00pm   Strange Luck
            9:00pm-10:00pm  Xfiles
            10:00pm-10:30pm   News
            10:30pm-12:30am Sci-Fi Movie (something modern)
This would be a good friday nite line-up..........
                             Tom Widera
                            Rochester NY

 * OLX 2.2 * Borg Mail Reader v2.1a . Tagline theft is futile.
---
 * KMail 3.10m Knight Moves

--- QScan/PCB v1.17b / 01-0406
 * Origin: Knight Moves - Rochester,NY 716-865-2106 (1:2613/313)

Ä [20] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 148 of 233
 From : Henry Triplett                      1:106/564       .îí 06 .àé 96 21:10
 To   : MARCUS GREEN
 Subj : Starship Troopers
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

-=> Quoting Marcus Green to All Who're Interested.. <=-

 MG> Hi All..

 MG> .According to the May 1996 issue of Cinescape Magazine:

 MG> ****begin quote****

 MG> Starship Troopers:

 MG> .Players: Neil Patrick Harris
 MG> .
 MG> .The Plot: After the debacle that was "Showgirls", director Paul
 MG> Verhoeven  abandons bare thighs for sci-fi. This big-budget space flick
 MG> depicts an Earth  overrun by tenacious insects, and it's based on a
 MG> Robert Heinlein tale. TV's  lovable Doogie Howser (Harris) takes on the
 MG> job of saving Earth from the killer  bugs.

 MG> .The director: Paul Verhoeven
 MG> .Distributor:  Columbia
 MG> .Release date: T.B.D

 MG>
 MG> ***end quote****

 MG> Hmm, doesn't sound very promising... "Earth overrun.."??? "Killer
 MG> Bugs"???? doesn't even sound like the book that I just finished
 MG> re-reading...

Sounds like a REAL dog of a film to me!  I'll definitely skip this turkey!
This outta make the upcoming "Mission Impossible" look good.  <g>

By "based on," I guess they're referring to the fact that they're both sup-
posed to be sf.  That's the only commonality that I noticed.  Makes ya wonder
if Verhoeven even *heard* of the book, much less read it!

 MG> "DOOGIE HOWSER"???????!!!!

 MG> Maybe Fred Savage from the "Wonder Years" wasn't available...  :)

Maybe he isn't as hungry as Harris!  I want to see Doogie pass as a "South
American of Philipino Descent."  Surely, there's at least *one* hispanic
actor that's available.

Henry

... Discontent is something that follows ambition like a shadow.

___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20 [NR]
--- GEcho 1.00
 * Origin: Eat Flaming Death    Houston Texas    713-447-1927 (1:106/564)

Ä [20] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 149 of 233
 From : Mark Jones                          1:105/302.47    .cê 05 .àé 96 19:32
 To   : Michael Harper
 Subj : Voyager Doc?
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On (01 May 96) Michael Harper wrote to Mark Jones...

 MH> The point I'm getting at here is that, while the Daystrom Technologies
 MH> computer cores that run the Enterprise are powerful enough that they
 MH> could be AIs, they're not. They have the same subroutines and programs
 MH> that every computer can be programmed to run, just more and bigger.
 MH> Vocal response isn't that futuristic; you can get that now. Same
 MH> with a lot of the everyday stuff the Enterprise is capable of.

 MH> The Enterprise computers are powerful enough; they don't need to
 MH> be AIs as well. If they were, we wouldn't need crew...

   That may be.  However, in the ST:TNG universe, according to the
series, the ship's computer *is* capable of creating a sentient being
(an AI) on the holodeck.  Moriarty was treated as a sentient being,
not a program with pretensions of sentience.  I must therefore assume
that Moriarty *is* an example of sentient software--and that the
ship's computer could create it.
   Which, as I said, implies that the ship's computer must have the
potential to *be* self-aware...whatever they say.

   (And I'd be interested in continuing this discussion, but I'm going
to be away from home for about three weeks, so I'm suspending my feed
until I get back.  I'll catch you later....)


--- PPoint 1.78
 * Origin: Folcroft Sanitarium (hsmith@cure.com) (1:105/302.47)

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 Msg  : 150 of 233
 From : Bill Warren                         1:102/749       .åò 09 .àé 96 17:41
 To   : Brion Lienhart
 Subj : Re: Starship Troopers
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
   Most of Paul Verhoeven's movies are good to very good; wait and see on
STARSHIP TROOPERS.

--- QuickBBS 2.80 GoldBase (Zeta-1)
 * Origin: Hooray For Hollywood * Los Angeles,CA -=- 213-653-7508 (1:102/749)

Ä [20] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 151 of 233
 From : Bill Warren                         1:102/749       .åò 09 .àé 96 17:43
 To   : Bruce Baugh
 Subj : Re: Me
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

BB>  Say, are you the same Bill Warren who uses MOVIES as a handle on
BB>  GEnie? How goes? That author topic is one of the things I most miss
BB>  about GEnie, whence I bailed when IDT came on board.

Yes, I'm the same.

BW> Same reason that INVASION OF THE BODY SNATCHERS and others were remade:
BW> to make money.

BB>  Occasionally for other reasons, too, though. NIGHT OF THE LIVING DEAD
BB>  comes to mind here - now there's a version that Romero has a really
BB>  solid legal claim to, unlike the original.

Not that that has done him any good, of course.  And believe me, the remake WAS
made to make money.

--- QuickBBS 2.80 GoldBase (Zeta-1)
 * Origin: Hooray For Hollywood * Los Angeles,CA -=- 213-653-7508 (1:102/749)

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 Msg  : 152 of 233
 From : Bruce Baugh                         1:105/290.59    .òp 07 .àé 96 20:24
 To   : Bill Warren
 Subj : RE:Remakes
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On 05 May 96  18:19:00, Bill Warren wrote:

BW> Same reason that INVASION OF THE BODY SNATCHERS and others were remade:
BW> to

make money.

Occasionally for other reasons, too, though. NIGHT OF THE LIVING DEAD comes to
mind here - now there's a version that Romero has a really solid legal claim to,
unlike the original.

Say, are you the same Bill Warren who uses MOVIES as a handle on GEnie? How
goes? That author topic is one of the things I most miss about GEnie, whence I
bailed when IDT came on board.


Bruce Baugh (bruce@aracnet.com)
--- F.I.P.S./32 v0.92 Win95/NT
 * Origin: Kenosis Design, home of fine Web work (1:105/290.59)

Ä [20] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 153 of 233
 From : Kay Shapero                         1:102/524       .pä 08 .àé 96 08:59
 To   : Brion Lienhart
 Subj : Re: Sound In Space
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <May 07 14:05>, Brion Lienhart (1:213/700.2) wrote to Frank Glover:

 BL>Bill & Ted's Excellent Planet!
 BL>Keanau Reeves as the Captain, Wassname as the First Lieutenant.
 BL>Tori Spelling as the lovely Altara. Richard Pryor as the ship's
 BL>doctor, and Leslie Neilson returns as the wacky Dr. Morbius!
 BL>Introducing, Robby, the R0b0-d00d.

And let's not forget Barney the Dinosaur as The Monster From the Id!

(Well, it's the best explanation *I* can think of... :->)

--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [20] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 154 of 233
 From : Kay Shapero                         1:102/524       .pä 08 .àé 96 16:05
 To   : Brion Lienhart
 Subj : Starship Troopers
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <May 07 09:40>, Brion Lienhart (1:213/700.2) wrote to Marcus Green:

 -MG> Starship Troopers:

 -MG>  Players: Neil Patrick Harris
 -MG>
 -MG>  The Plot: After the debacle that was "Showgirls", director Paul
 -MG>Verhoeven abandons bare thighs for sci-fi. This big-budget space flick
 -MG>depicts an Earth overrun by tenacious insects, and it's based on a
 -MG>Robert Heinlein tale. TV's lovable Doogie Howser (Harris) takes on the
 -MG>job of saving Earth from the killer bugs.

ROFL!! (or if accurate, URP!...)  Sounds like a press release all right.  Full
of hype and spin, with (one can only hope) very little relationship to reality.


 BL>D'oh! Well, strike one movie from my to be seen list.
 BL>

Except maybe in company with Joel and a certain trio of robots? :->  Me, I'll
await the reviews.


--- msged 2.06
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 Msg  : 155 of 233
 From : Kay Shapero                         1:102/524       .pä 08 .àé 96 16:10
 To   : Patrick Long
 Subj : passing comment
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <May 07 18:32>, Patrick Long (1:271/380) wrote to Todd Sullivan:

 PL>Navy ship.  Not saying that it has _never_ happened, but merely
 PL>relating personal experience.  Insects, on the other hand...

I think Stephen Gould is absolutely right - this *is* the Age of Arthropods...
:->


... "Bugs, Mr. Rico!  Millions of Bugs!"

--- msged 2.06
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 Msg  : 156 of 233
 From : Sharpshooter                        1:260/158       .pä 08 .àé 96 22:59
 To   : Eric Fishbein
 Subj : RE: STAR TREK GENERATIONS
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
RE: RE: STAR TREK GENERATIONS
BY: Eric Fishbein to Frank Glover on Sat May 04 1996 12:33 am

 >         Did Data even have to excrete waste?  I remember him saying in one
 > episode that he ingested a highly specialized solution to keep his parts wel
 > lubricated (INSERT YOUR OWN JOKE HERE), but unfortunately  we never got a
 > chance to see him do this.

     There's always the possibility that the reason we never got to see Data do
this has something to do with the nature of the "highly specialized solution"
in question...a substance for which Data might be eternally grateful to Tasha
Yar <grin>...

     And yes, the showers on a starship are almost all of the sonic variety,
since 9as you might imagine) water is a valuable resource on a spacegoing
vessel, and not to be wasted.

     An actual shower with actual water, would require doctor's orders.

                                    -=>Sharpshooter<=-
--- Synchronet+SBBSecho v1.22
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 Msg  : 157 of 233
 From : Sharpshooter                        1:260/158       .pä 08 .àé 96 23:05
 To   : Frank Glover
 Subj : Re: STAR TREK GENERATIONS
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
RE: Re: STAR TREK GENERATIONS
BY: Frank Glover to Bob Klahn on Sun May 05 1996 07:47 pm

 >    Also, we were told, back inthat episode with the Irish-descended colonist
 > that "...the ship can clean itself." (Her response, after trying to scrub a
 > stain from the deck; "Well. Good for the bloody ship!") One wonders just how
 > far it can go? Stains? Dust? Romulan ale spills? Blood? Cat droppings? *Whol
 > cats? That technology was never elaborate upon anywhere else I know of....

I haven't consulted the tech manuals on this one, but I can envision the
Enterprise having a low-powered scanner array on each deck, capable of scanning
that deck for debris and using a small transporter to beam the unwanted
material to the recycling tanks.

Scanner would have to be able to detect a life form, though...maybe it would
need a tricorder to help it or it MIGHT beam away the poor kitty...

                                        -=>Sharpshooter<=-

Dr. McCoy's gravestone reads: "I'm dead, Jim."
--- Synchronet+SBBSecho v1.22
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 Msg  : 158 of 233
 From : Brandon Wolgast                     1:363/281       .pä 08 .àé 96 03:30
 To   : All
 Subj : B5 RPG UPDATE
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE/32 1.2
I just got off the net with the newest info/press release/thingie on the B5
RPG, called: The Babylon Project.  Here is what I found, hopefully it will
be usefull to some people here:


OVERVIEW OF THE GAME

Yes!  The rumor are true!  On March 4th, Chameleon Eclectic Entertainment,
Inc., in association with WireFrame Productions, Inc., Babylonian Productions,
and Warner Bros. Worldwide Publishing, announced the upcoming release of
The Babylon Project, a roleplaying game based on the groundbreaking Warner
Bros. science fiction television program Babylon 5.

The Babylon Project will be released this fall.  We'll post a specific date
here when we confirm it (probably in late April or May)--the release will
likely be towards the end of September or in October.  The first supplement
(the Earthforce Sourcebook) will be released at the same time as the main game
book, and will be quickly followed by two additional books by the end of the
year.  A full line of sourcebooks and supporting products are planned to
follow--as any fan knows, the Babylon 5 universe is intricate, cohesive, and
richly detailed, and will make an intriguing backdrop for an exciting
roleplaying game.

As for that background, The Babylon Project will be set against the period
just prior to and concurrent with the first season or so of the television
show: the tense period following the Earth-Minbari war and leading to
emergence of the Shadows and the Narn-Centauri war.  At this time, we can't
comment beyond that on what "secret," "non-official," etc. material we'll be
using or creating.  Rest assured, however, that project head Joseph Cochran
will be working closely with Babylon 5 creator and Executive Producter
J. Michael Straczynski and Warner Bros. to ensure that our material is
authentic, consistent with the hsow and its story, and interesting to both the
gamer and the Babylon 5 fan in all of us.

We can't offer too many details on the game syster at this point, either.
We can say that it is a new system, and though it owes some philosophical
and design elements to both the published (Mellennium's End and Psychosis)
and unpublished systems we've developed here at Chameleon Eclectic (not to
mention co-publisher WireFrame Productions' design experience), it is being
purpose-built for the Babylon 5 universe.  It is not directly compatible with
Mellennium's End or any existing system, though players who have enjoyed our
games will appreciate this one as well.  WireFrame is heading up the design
of the game--but we here at Chameleon Eclectic are closely involved, and
wouldn't put our name on the project if we weren't confident that this was
shaping up to be a great game and not just a knock-off of a great background.

CONTRIBUTING TO THE BABYLON PROJECT

Many people have emailed us with proposals for contributing to the writing,
art, or playtesting of the game.  We haven't yet decided when, how, or for
what specific books we'll be needing freelancers, and we won't be soliciting
freelance work before mid-Spring, at the earliest.  When we do start looking
at freelance work, we will be working from a very rigid production schedule
(sing the release schedule must be approved well in advance by Warner Bros.),
so it's no good pitching product proposals to us.  If you're still itching
to get something to us, get a copy of our Writers' Guidelines and send us some
samples of your work.

The above is all pretty equally true for artists--we don't yet know how much
freelance art we'll be requiring, or when.  If you'd like us to consider your
art, send us some samples--but don't expect an answer before mid-Spring.

As for playtesting, well, we've pretty much got that covered.  As you can
imagine, there are no shortage of volunteers.  Please don't send us a request
to help with playtesting unless you've got some pretty impressive credits
under your belt--even then, the odds that we'll need additional help are
pretty slim.

HOW WE GOT TO THIS POINT

We're co-publishing The Babylon Project with WireFrame Productions, Inc.
WireFrame has been awarded the roleplaying game license for The Babylon
Project by Warner Bros. Worldwide Publishing.  WireFrame will be primarily
responsible for the game design (although we will, of course, be working
closely with them on this), Chameleon Eclectic will handle pre-production,
editing and production, as well as promotions and sales.

As many people have brought up, there were many game companies looking for
this license--we know for certain of four companies that tried to get it and
failed, including one well-known company with a long history of licensed game
products (we've also heard from several individuals who said they had pursued
it, or were planning to).  How did we succeed?  Persistance, luck, and an
excellent proposal (in more or less that order) on the part of WireFrame
president Joseph Cochran.  If there were some other magic ingredient, we don't
know what it was either.  However, we're very pleaed and proud to be working
with this great imaginary world--and we know we'll do it right.

***
 * OLX 2.1 * "Do not thump the Book of G'Quan."  -G'Kar

--- Use the FORCE!!!
 * Origin: Feduberator * STAR WARS Support * (407)381-2798 (1:363/281)

Ä [20] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 159 of 233
 From : Brion Lienhart                      1:213/700.2     .pä 08 .àé 96 09:57
 To   : Patrick Long
 Subj : passing comment
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On Tue May 07, Patrick Long said to Todd Sullivan:

TS-=>Hell, rats can't be kept off ships *today*, even with rigorous
  -=>preventative measures.  They're cunning little buggers.

 -PL>I presume you are referring to commercial vessels.  In over 12 years
 -PL>of Naval service, I've yet to see a single rat (or mouse) aboard a
 -PL>Navy ship.  Not saying that it has _never_ happened, but merely
 -PL>relating personal experience.  Insects, on the other hand...

I was in subs for 6 yrs, they're probably the closest things we have to
spaceships today. Never saw any rats, or cockroaches. Flies would come down the
hatches when we were in port, but when we went out and closed up, they would die
off in a couple of days since we didn't leave any food or garbage out that they
could breed in. Occasionally we would get an outbreak of body lice in one of the
berthing areas, but when we found out who had them, they were fairly easy to
take care of.
However, if civilians operated a lot of submarines, I'm sure they would have
cockroaches at least.



--- QM v1.31
 * Origin: Ministry of Peace - Carson City, NV (1:213/700.2)

Ä [20] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 160 of 233
 From : Jan vantEnt                         2:512/1.1       .îí 06 .àé 96 07:49
 To   : Jan De Smedt
 Subj : Julian May - Magnificat
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: FastEcho 1.30/g 4253
Hi Jan, in a message to All you mentioned:

 > I have the impression that the novel _Magnificat_ by
 > Julian May has already been published in the U.S. I am
 > eagerly awaiting its availability in Europe, but so
 > far I've got no luck.

It's a hardcover; publisher is Knopf; price probably around $25 (available in
England for UK#17.50; best bet in Holland would be the American Bookshop in
Amsterdam or Den Haag).

<Jan>

---
 * Origin: The Ent. - Capelle a/d IJssel, Netherlands (2:512/1.1)

Ä [20] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 161 of 233
 From : Todd Sullivan                       1:202/720.3     .òp 07 .àé 96 20:02
 To   : Frank Glover
 Subj : STAR TREK GENERATIONS
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Reports from the Interior indicate that Frank Glover leaked the following to Bob
Klahn, re: STAR TREK GENERATIONS

 FG> ship!") One wonders just how far it can go? Stains? Dust? Romulan ale
 FG> spills? Blood? Cat droppings? *Whole* cats? That technology was never
 FG> elaborate upon anywhere else I know of....

One thing that can lose an audience (book, movie or TV) is if you over-explain
things.  That was addressed in TOS, and was carried over into TNG, going by the
fact that they only explained things essential (?) to the plot.

Todd Sullivan

... Birds gather in flocks; morons gather in congregations.

-*- ASTG 1.9

--- Spot 1.3a Unregistered
 * Origin: Todd's Spot in the Continuum (1:202/720.3)

Ä [20] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 162 of 233
 From : Frank Glover                        1:2613/477      .pä 08 .àé 96 21:10
 To   : Terry Riley
 Subj : Re: SCI-FI CARTOONS
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

TR>  I think the original Galaxy Trio series was circa 1964.
TR>    "Meteor Man, ready!"
TR>    "Vapor Man, ready!"
TR>    "Galaxy Girl, ready!"
TR>
TR>  Birdman was also one of my favorites.
TR>    "The sun! My power is returning!"

   I remember that era of superhero animation on saturday morning well. It was
late 1967-1969....

   Frank


--- QuickBBS 2.80 (Zeta-1.9A)
 * Origin: The Matrix Data Bank BBS, Rochester, Ny (1:2613/477)

Ä [20] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 163 of 233
 From : Frank Glover                        1:2613/477      .pä 08 .àé 96 21:12
 To   : Patrick Long
 Subj : Re: passing comment
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

PL>  I presume you are referring to commercial vessels.  In over 12 years
PL>  of Naval service, I've yet to see a single rat (or mouse) aboard a
PL>  Navy ship.  Not saying that it has _never_ happened, but merely
PL>  relating personal experience.  Insects, on the other hand...

  Likewise on spaceships (so far, anyway), no rodent has gotten into spcat that
wasn't intended as an experimental subject, but I think an occasional fly
manages to get into the space shuttle....

   Frank


--- QuickBBS 2.80 (Zeta-1.9A)
 * Origin: The Matrix Data Bank BBS, Rochester, Ny (1:2613/477)

Ä [20] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 164 of 233
 From : Frank Glover                        1:2613/477      .pä 08 .àé 96 21:21
 To   : Eric Fishbein
 Subj : Re: VOYAGER DOC?
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

EF>  pissed when they start a story-line and don't explore it.  The Doctor
EF>  is a great way to explore the ethicalities of enforced-labor, and
EF>  would hope they got into it a little more.         Then again, Trek

   Good point. These issues were explored in `The Measure of a Man,' and
somewhat less so in `Lol.' But if it's Fed policy to deliberately keep its
computers at a non-sentient level, it seems that since the doctor started as a
very advanced kind of expert system that we can do today, to make him
sufficently useful in the total absenceof other medical personell (which early
on started with giving him access to ships systems that the emergency medical
hologram normally would not have) meant doing things that pushed him over the
line to self-awareness. This does merit further exploration. For instance,
suppose they get lucky, and find a shortcut back home. Can they ethically reduce
him to his original state?

   ("Dasy...dasy...give me your annnnssserrr doooooo........")

   Frank


--- QuickBBS 2.80 (Zeta-1.9A)
 * Origin: The Matrix Data Bank BBS, Rochester, Ny (1:2613/477)

Ä [20] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 165 of 233
 From : Bob Klahn                           1:234/2         .åò 09 .àé 96 21:40
 To   : Terry Riley
 Subj : HIGHLANDER NEWS!
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
BK>> *Magic does not work in the real world.*

 TR> Actually, there a lot of people out there in the real world who would
 TR> dispute that statement.
 TR> Magic might work in the real world, then again, it might not.

 It doesn't.

BOB KLAHN

... (D)inner not ready:  (A)bort (R)etry (P)izza
 * Silver Xpress V4.3P RB10275

--- FLAME v1.1
 * Origin: Telnet toltbbs.com or call 313-854-6001, Boardwatch #55 (1:234/2)

Ä [20] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 166 of 233
 From : Bob Klahn                           1:234/2         .åò 09 .àé 96 21:40
 To   : Eric Fishbein
 Subj : EDUCATION THROUGH FIC
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 >>  led them to further knowledge. For those who didn't, there was just
 >> the
 >>  residue of mis-information. The original series had an excuse, I
 >> expect
 >>  improvement as time goes on.

 EF>         You're joking?  You mean to tell me you think that everyone who
 EF>         watched ST and didn't go on to higher education actually takes
 EF>         it as reality? Uh, I've said "Beam me up, Scotty" a number of
 EF>         times and nothing has happened...Yet ;-)

 There are an awful lot of people who beleive that stuff is true, or, at
 least, based on scientific fact. If not, why did they get it so wrong in the
 first place?

BOB KLAHN

... Windows...from the minds who gave you EDLIN!
 * Silver Xpress V4.3P RB10275

--- FLAME v1.1
 * Origin: Telnet toltbbs.com or call 313-854-6001, Boardwatch #55 (1:234/2)

Ä [20] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 167 of 233
 From : Bob Klahn                           1:234/2         .åò 09 .àé 96 21:40
 To   : Eric Fishbein
 Subj : B5 QUALITY
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 >>  That was a bad episode for B5, yet it was still a pretty good show.
 >> A good
 >>  episode is great.

 EF>         Well, I might have been overly zealous, but even a in a
 EF>         mediocre B5 they still try to entertain you, but in Voyager
 EF>         they just spout technobable at you and they tend to loose the
 EF>         point.  What was the devolution thing with Janeway and Paris
 EF>         about anyways?

 The sound of a nail being hit on the head is heard throughout the land.

BOB KLAHN

... For people who like peace and quiet:  A phoneless cord.
 * Silver Xpress V4.3P RB10275

--- FLAME v1.1
 * Origin: Telnet toltbbs.com or call 313-854-6001, Boardwatch #55 (1:234/2)

Ä [20] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 168 of 233
 From : Marcus Green                        1:123/569       .åò 09 .àé 96 22:17
 To   : Earl Green
 Subj : Shadows of the Empire CD
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE 1.11+

 -=> Quoting Earl Green to All <=-

 EG> "Star Wars: Shadows of the Empire" soundtrack by John McNeely  (Varese

 EG> When I saw this one on the store shelf, it sure surprised me.
 EG> Here's a soundtrack to a movie that doesn't exist!  In case you haven't

             <<<<<snip>>>>>

    Hi Earl, (think we're related?)

    There has been a soundtrack for a book before.. it's just a marketing
scheme. :( A number of years ago, L. Ron Hubbard (the father of marketing
schemes..) wrote some music for his book "Battlefield Earth", the book was
pretty good, IMO, and the soundtrack   (billed as the first soundtrack for a
novel..) was okay.. I did like one track off of it.. kinda catchy. I found it in
a used music store near the college I went to and was glad I didn't pay full
price for it.

Thanks for the review, though.. :)


... I am the very model of a cartoon individual! - Yakko Warner
--- Blue Wave/RA v2.12
 * Origin: 9 out of 5 Schizos prefer Lunatic Fringe! 382-LUST (1:123/569)

Ä [20] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 169 of 233
 From : Patrick Long                        1:271/380       .åò 09 .àé 96 15:35
 To   : Kim Wheat
 Subj : passing comment
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

KW-=> TS>Hell, rats can't be kept off ships *today*, even with rigorous
  -=>   >preventative measures.  They're cunning little buggers.

KW-=> PL> I presume you are referring to commercial vessels.  In over 12 years
  -=> PL> of Naval service, I've yet to see a single rat (or mouse) aboard a
  -=> PL> Navy ship.  Not saying that it has _never_ happened, but merely
  -=> PL> relating personal experience.  Insects, on the other hand...

KW-=> I agree....23 years in and never seen (nor heard) of a rodent getting
  -=> onboard a Naval vessel.

KW-=> Come to think of it, don't recall ever seeing 'Rat Guards' on
  -=> commercial vessels.....have you?

I don't think so.

... Xeroxpox - Skin disease of copier paper with large powdery blotches.

--- ViaMAIL!/WC5 v1.00o
 * Origin: ViaMail v1.00ñv - The Gondor BBS (804) 888-1567  (1:271/380)

Ä [20] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 170 of 233
 From : Brion Lienhart                      1:213/700.2     .åò 09 .àé 96 14:16
 To   : Kim Wheat
 Subj : passing comment
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On Wed May 08, Kim Wheat said to Patrick Long:

 TS>Hell, rats can't be kept off ships *today*, even with rigorous
   >preventative measures.  They're cunning little buggers.

 PL> I presume you are referring to commercial vessels.  In over 12 years
 PL> of Naval service, I've yet to see a single rat (or mouse) aboard a
 PL> Navy ship.  Not saying that it has _never_ happened, but merely
 PL> relating personal experience.  Insects, on the other hand...

 -KW> I agree....23 years in and never seen (nor heard) of a rodent getting
 -KW> onboard a Naval vessel.

 -KW> Come to think of it, don't recall ever seeing 'Rat Guards' on
 -KW>commercial vessels.....have you?

I've seen them on commercial vessels. We were tied up near a Panamanian Ganja
Oil tanker one time that looked like it had the rat guards on to keep them from
escaping. This is no shit... A friend of mine was on topside watch (on a
submarine) in Palermo when some rats tried to come down the gangway. He's got a
phobia about them, so he pulls out his .45 and starts blasting them, then gets
on the loudspeaker and calls down "send up more ammo!" After the excitment died
down, he was in a bit of trouble.



--- QM v1.31
 * Origin: Ministry of Peace - Carson City, NV (1:213/700.2)

Ä [20] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 171 of 233
 From : Frank Glover                        1:2613/477      .åò 09 .àé 96 20:34
 To   : Todd Sullivan
 Subj : Re: STAR TREK GENERATIONS
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

TS>   FG> ship!") One wonders just how far it can go? Stains? Dust?
TS>  Romulan ale
TS>   FG> spills? Blood? Cat droppings? *Whole* cats? That technology was
TS>  never
TS>   FG> elaborate upon anywhere else I know of....
TS>
TS>  One thing that can lose an audience (book, movie or TV) is if you
TS>  over-explain things.  That was addressed in TOS, and was carried over
TS>  into TNG, going by the fact that they only explained things essential
TS>  (?) to the plot.

   I didn't mean a detailed explanation of how it works, really. Consider the
transporters. We've known through all of Trek what they do, and their
limitations, without being excessively specific on how they work. The
`self-cleaning ship' was mentioned only once, and only in passing, so we know
little about its overall function. And there've been plenty of other times when
it could've been at least mentioned.

   For now, though, I'll have to assume something like the transporter's
bio-filter function is involved in distinguishing various dirts and soils from
things you don't want to clean up....

   Frank


--- QuickBBS 2.80 (Zeta-1.9A)
 * Origin: The Matrix Data Bank BBS, Rochester, Ny (1:2613/477)

Ä [20] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 172 of 233
 From : Frank Glover                        1:2613/477      .åò 09 .àé 96 20:49
 To   : Sharpshooter
 Subj : Re: RE: STAR TREK GENERATIONS
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

Sh>       And yes, the showers on a starship are almost all of the sonic
Sh>  variety,
Sh>  since 9as you might imagine) water is a valuable resource on a
Sh>  spacegoing
Sh>  vessel, and not to be wasted.

   I don't know. Since they have some form of generated gravity, water could be
used and drained away much as it is here. Plumbing leads back to recycling and
life support. No problem.

   Even allowing for small (and I suspect they'd be *quite* small) losses, FTL
starships can easily find places to replenish water supplies. They needn't be
livable class-M planets, either. Comets, or places comparable to the Jupiter
moon Europa would do just fine. Beam a thousand pounds of liquid water (ST-4
proved this is conservative) or ice aboard, and off you go. The USS Voyager must
constantly demonstrate how much a starship can `live off the land' if
necessary....

   Frank


--- QuickBBS 2.80 (Zeta-1.9A)
 * Origin: The Matrix Data Bank BBS, Rochester, Ny (1:2613/477)

Ä [20] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 173 of 233
 From : Wes Yahola                          1:123/569       .ÿò 10 .àé 96 05:03
 To   : Tom Widera
 Subj : Strange Luck!!!
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE 1.11+

 -=> Quoting Tom Widera to All <=-

 TW> My FOX
 TW> friday line-up:    7:00pm-8:00pm   Sliders
 TW>                    8:00pm-9:00pm   Strange Luck
 TW>                    9:00pm-10:00pm  Xfiles
 TW>                    10:00pm-10:30pm   News
 TW>                    10:30pm-12:30am Sci-Fi Movie (something modern)
 TW> This would be a good friday nite line-up..........

       i say dump the news, read a paper in the morning, throw in MST3K at
Midnight, and it'd be pretty perfect.

... "What?!? This isn't the Files section?!?"
--- Blue Wave/RA v2.12 [NR]
 * Origin: 9 out of 5 Schizos prefer Lunatic Fringe! 382-LUST (1:123/569)

Ä [20] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 174 of 233
 From : Aaron Boyden                        1:206/2720      .ÿò 10 .àé 96 05:06
 To   : David Johnston
 Subj : Starship Troopers
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 >-> There were killer bugs in _Starship Troopers_, though they never
 >-> overran Earth. However, one would think that the fellow who saves the
 >-> Earth would be Rico.  A small problem with Harris in that role is
 >-> that, at least as I recall, Rico wasn't white.

 > What's your point?

Well, I see yours.  The whole significance of Rico's non-whiteness is that
nobody in _Starship Troopers_ pays the slightest bit of attention to it.
Color-blind casting would, in a way, respect this, which I guess is the
motivation for your comment.  But if Rico is white, there isn't any message any
more; nobody is going to wonder about how people are ignoring Rico's whiteness,
as ignoring people's whiteness is the norm.


--- TosScan(q) 1.00
 * Origin: Remember:  Cthulhu Cthaves!  -Campus Crusade for Cthulhu (1:206/2720)

Ä [20] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 175 of 233
 From : Kay Shapero                         1:102/524       .ÿò 10 .àé 96 08:25
 To   : All
 Subj : (1/3) Acronyms
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
ACRONYMS (and things that look like them)
part one of three posts

(last updated February 6, 1996)
This is the edited list; for the full list (including more detailed
definitions and things not particularly current) file request ACRO-
NYMS.ZIP from StormGate Aerie (1:102/524).

A couple of notes:

The purpose of this list is to provide folks with a place where they
can find out what all of those strange acronyms they see in here mean
without having to write a lot of "What is that?" messages (goodness
knows we've enough traffic in here already.)  Please don't deluge me
with obscure acronyms unless they're actively in use...)  Also please
tell me if you see something not currently in use so I can delete it.

I post this on BOTH SFFAN and in SF - not everything in here is on
topic in the latter echo!

<g>: Grin, <G>: Great Big Grin), <g,d,r>: Grin, Duck and Run
APA: Amateur Press Association.  Sort of like this bulletin board
     only each member prints up his/her own comments and passes
     them to the Official Collator (or Official Editor) to fasten
     together and distribute copies to members.  Most, but not
     all, appear monthly or bimonthly.
Authors abbreviated: Agberg = Silverberg, AnneMc = Anne McCaf-
     frey, DeJohn = John DeChancie, JRRT = J.R.R. Tolkien, KMac =
     Michael P. Kube-McDowell, LWE = Lawrence Watt-Evans, PTerry
     = Terry Pratchett, RAH = Robert A. Heinlein, Xanthony =
     Piers Anthony
AWGTHTGTTA?: Are We Going To Have To Go Through This Again?
     Alternative form is AWGTHTGTATA (...Through ALL This
     Again?).
BIP: Books In Print
BLORF: The sound generated by a very large number of EchoMessages
     arriving in a very short period of time.
BNF: Big Name Fan
BOOF: A typo for "book" which appears to have caught on.  It
     means "book".  "Bif", "bhooves" and "bhoven" have been
     suggested as the plural of "boof", possibly rotten "bif" are
     "barf", "bif in a series are "biffies" and so on.  Really
     LARGE bif may be called "beef".
BOZON:  Described in the Wunderment echo as: A particle which
     causes large problems which can often be looked at in a
     humourous light; most often applied to computer hardware
     and/or software, but not exclusively so.  See the full list
     for the delightfully silly details.
BTIC:  But then, I'm crazy.  (Sam Tuirel)
BTW: By The Way
CBIP: Current Book In Progress.  Used when you want to talk about
     the book you're reading now but don't need an OOTC because
     your message is already on-topic.  (Travis Butler)
CHVC: Columbia House Video Club (Mainly tapes)
CHLC: Columbia House Laserdisc Club (Self-explanatory)
DUFF and TAFF: Respectively the Down Under Fan Fund and the Trans
     Atlantic Fan Fund (funds to import fen from same for World-
     cons.)  A Mid Atlantic Fan Fund for well known fuggheads is
     occasionally suggested...
DUOE: Dried-Up Old Eunuch. To quote Jo Peshek "DUOE was formed in
     reaction to the claim of one infamous poster who asserted
     that an adult novel, or short story, could NOT be believable
     or realistic unless it had sex in it. Not just hand holding,
     not flirtation, not simple attraction, but full-blown (oops!
     8* ) explicit, juicy sex scenes. The poster said anyone who
     disagreed had to be a dried-up old eunich...several of us
     disagreed. We do not object to sexual content, merely dis-

     agree that it MUST appear. Thus was born the DUOE and Pru-
     ney...Pruney usually shows up when a member wants to convey
     shock (or mock shock). [This :* is a pruney. KS]
ETOL:  Evil Twin On Line.  For those occasions when you couldn't
     _possibly_ be saying the things you really want to say...
     (Sam Tuirel)
FASA: A game company that made a Star Trek role playing game,
     before Paramount (or someone) decided it was a mistake and
     pulled the rights.  AKA F**A by someone who agrees with
     Paramount.  I've never seen it, myself, so couldn't say.
(continued next post)


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Ä [20] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 176 of 233
 From : Kay Shapero                         1:102/524       .ÿò 10 .àé 96 08:25
 To   : All
 Subj : (2/3) Acronyms
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
ACRONYMS (and things that look like them)
part two of three posts

FBT: Frigging Blue Turtleoid.  Refers to the gigantic blue six
     legged turtle like critter with several people tied to its
     back which appears on the cover of John DeChancie's novel,
     CASTLE KIDNAPPED.  It does not appear anywhere INSIDE the
     book.
FIAWOL: Fandom Is A Way Of Life
FIJAGH: Fandom Is Just A Ghoddam Hobby (or possibly "Ghu-dam
     hobby" if you're into invoking fannish ghods [personally I
     like The Great Spider or The Church of Herbangelism -
     "Praise Herbie and Pass the Buck"], note also the fannish
     insertion of silent "h"s into things, such as "bheer".)
FILK: Is not an acronym.  It started out life as a typo of
     "fannish folk songs" and was adopted by the perpetrators of
     same.  So Filksongs are fannish folksongs.  (for more infor-
     mation ask me via e-mail, or see the FILK echo if you have
     it available...)
FITB: Fill In The Blank....
F.U.B.S. (fubs) n. [ F(ido) U(sed) B(ook) S(quad)] 1. A pack of
     hounds ravaging the countryside in search of a copy of _A
     Spell for Chameleon_. 2. A gallant band of FidoNet readers
     roaming Used Book Stores (UBS) around the world for books to
     trade with others (hopefully that the "others" want, in
     trade for another book, money, or gratitude). (definition by
     Will Purvine) Some notables include Zane Melder & Travis
     Butler, but a message to All with FUBS in the title will
     probably get you the attention you need. (Term credited to
     Glenn Chambers)  And special blessings on Travis, Keith
     Stokes, and Lisa Reeves for the FUBS t-shirt they came up
     with.
FUGGHEAD: Fannish term meaning roughly airhead, someone whose
     head is thoroughly fogged.  One can also consider the "fugg"
     to be a substitute for the more famous four letter word
     beginning with "f".
FYI: For Your Information
GAFIATE:  Get Away From It All (as in drop out of Fandom)
GIWIST: Gee I Wish I'd Said That
ICOCBW: I Could, Of Course, Be Wrong
IIRC: If I Remember Correctly. "The obligatory statement of
     modesty before making a sweeping generalization about
     something read five years ago."  (credited to Travis Butler)
IITYWIMWYBMAD: If I tell you what it means, will you buy me a
     drink?
IMHO: In My Humble (or Honest) Opinion. Also IMNSHO: In My Not-So
     Humble Opinion and IMOBO: In My Own Biased Opinion.
INPO: In No Particular Order
LASFS: The Los Angeles Science Fantasy Society, which is the
     oldest continuously meeting science fantasy society in this
     world (since Oct 17, 1934).  Every Thursday at 11513 Burbank
     Blvd., N. Hollywood, CA  91601 telephone (818) 760-9234.
LLTA: Lots and Lots of Thunderous (or Thundering) Applause
LOL: Laughing Out Loud
MLAS: Mind (or Memory) Like A Sieve (variant introduced by Joshua
     Kronengold, MLASBWABHII [Mind Like A Steel Bucket With A
     Bloody Hole In It])
NASFiC:  North American Science Fiction Convention (aka North
     AmeriCon)

NECROHIPPOSADISM: Not an acronym, and probably self evident, but
     anyway a reference to beating a dead horse.
NESFA: The New England Science Fiction Association home of NESFA
     Press among other things.  P.O. Box 809, Framingham, MA
     01701-0203
OOK!: This is not an acronym - it's the abbreviated form of Ook
     ook slobber drool!"  This started out as "Ook ook!" which Ed
     Buchman introduced to the LASFS claiming a strange lady told
     him it meant "your pleasure centers had been diddled."  He
     soon modified it to the longer form.
OOP, OP: Out Of Print
OOTC: Obligatory On Topic Comment
OOTQ: Obligatory On Topic Quote
OYDB:  Over _your_ dead body. (Sam Tuirel)
PJF: Pre Joycean Fellowship.  Steven Brust, Pamela Dean, Emma
     Bull,  Will Shetterly, Jane Yolen, and Neil Gaiman and
     various others who consider that James Joyce did the liter-
     ary world a disservice by deemphasizing plot.  To quote
     Pamela; " We're a bunch of writers who worry about the di-
     vorce of so-called popular and so-called literary values,
     and hope to reconcile them.  Some of us don't really blame
     Joyce for the breakup, and some of us do."
*plonk*: The sound of someone hitting a killfile or twit filter.
POV: Point Of View
RAH: Robert A. Heinlein
RETCON: REtroactive COntinuity; explaining changes (especially to
     a TV series) by claiming they aren't really changes.
(continued next post)


--- msged 2.06
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Ä [20] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 177 of 233
 From : Kay Shapero                         1:102/524       .ÿò 10 .àé 96 08:25
 To   : All
 Subj : (3/3) Acronyms
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
ACRONYMS (and things that look like them)
part three of three posts

ROFLASTC! (or ROFLASC!): Rolling On The Floor Laughing And Scar-
     ing The Cat.  Originated, I'm told by Pamela Dean, who types
     with a cat on her lap.  Variants include ROFL!, ROTFLH and
     SITCLH("ROFL Hysterically", and "Sitting in the chair LH").
     Also ROFLWMCSOIA (While My Cat Stared On In Amazement),
     ROFLSHIFOMCASMC (So Hard I Fell Off My Chair And Scared My
     Cat), and any number of other things along that line.
ROTBA: Reality On The Blink Again (scientific inaccuracy or just
     plain nonsense).
RSN: Real Soon Now
RTFM: Read The Fershlugginer Manual
The Salmon Of Correction:  A useful creature for whapping those
     who annoy you.
SFBC: Science Fiction Book Club
SFWA:  Science Fiction & Fantasy Writers of America.  Sometimes
     abbreviated SFFWA.  Pronounced "sif-wa".
SIASL: Stranger In A Strange Land
SMOF:  Secret Masters of Fandom
ST:TOS, ST:TNG, ST:TAS, ST:TMP, ST:DSN: Respectively Star Trek:
     The Original Series, The Next Generation, The Animated
     Series, The Motion Picture (the first one), and Deep Space
     Nine.
TANJ: There Ain't No Justice
TANSTAAFL: There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch
TITLE, NUMBER/BIGGER NUMBER: Not an acronym, but a method of
     indicating where you are in a book.  Write the title first,
     followed by a parenthesis, followed by the page number you
     are on, followed by the total number of pages in the book.
     For example, if you were on page 12 of Mort, it would be
     MORT, 12/285.  Who came up with this is unclear.
TPTB: The Powers That Be
TRQ: To Read Queue.  Also VTRQ "Virtual To Read Queue".
TSTMATS: The Sun, The Moon and the Stars by Stephen Brust.  Good
     book.
TTBOMK: To The Best Of My Knowledge
TTFN: Ta Ta For Now.
TTYL: Type (or Talk) To You Later
UBS: Used Book Store
WAMKSAM:  Why Are My Kids (or Kitties) Staring At Me?

WIP: Work In Progress
WYLABOCTGWTR, WYLASOMWTC: Would You Like A Bowl Of Cream To Go
     With That Remark?, Would You Like A Saucer Of Milk With That
     Comment?  Created by Steven Brust (& common in Minneapa)
YAHI, YAMI, YATI: Yet Another (Highlander, Mets, or Trek) Incon-
     sistency
YAWA:  You and what army?   (Sam Tuirel)
YMMV: Your mileage may vary.

----
point of information - a message line preceeded by a > is a quote
     from a previous message and not a comment by the current
     message poster.
another point of information - the moderator of SFFAN is Nicolai
     Shapero (1:102/524).  The moderator of SF is David Dyer-
     Bennet (1:282/341).  The moderator of FILK is Kay Shapero
     (1:102/524) (note shameless plug... :->)


--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [20] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 178 of 233
 From : Don Bach                            1:3632/65       .åò 09 .àé 96 07:30
 To   : Eric Fishbein
 Subj : STAR TREK GENERATIONS
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 EF>    That brings up another question:  Did Data actually
 EF> have a toilet in his quarters?

This is TV Science Fiction.  The characters never have to use the toilet, so
there are none in the ST universe.

Don


--- Maximus 3.01
 * Origin: No Regrets, Clinton, MS (601)924-8247 9P-5A (1:3632/65)

Ä [20] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 179 of 233
 From : Don Bach                            1:3632/65       .óá 11 .àé 96 09:01
 To   : Thomas Gladwin
 Subj : STAR TREK GENERATIONS
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 TG> Yah, but were are the vermin supposed to come from in the first place?
 TG> Surely it would be easier to keep loading bays etc sterile?

In my opinion, where ever you make it inhabitable for human life, our pesky
friends will eventually follow.  The one way to prevent this is to make all
humans and cargo go through an air-less lock.  You would have to provide
respiratory support for the humans and wanted live cargo.  Even if the human's
clothing was sterilized and the human and animals washed, I think that
eventually insects and other vermin would get through.

As we have more travel in space, the cleaning of humans and cargo would be done
less and less carefully.  We have a lot of trouble with vermin contamination in
our food supply now!

Don


--- Maximus 3.01
 * Origin: No Regrets, Clinton, MS (601)924-8247 9P-5A (1:3632/65)

Ä [20] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 180 of 233
 From : Roy Stevens                         1:108/205       .åò 09 .àé 96 23:55
 To   : Kateri Dailey
 Subj : CHRIS ELLIOT'S SITCOM
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
KD>Chris Elliots sitcom was pretty funny, I loved the idiocy of the way he acte
KD>and stuff kinda reminds me of this friend I had, he was soo much like chris
KD>was eerie. well any way, I thought I would put my two cent's in,
KD>                                Bethany
KD>                                 (Lei)

It was one of those shows I enjoy for about 15 min at a time, but I did
enjoy it ;)

Anyone remember the show that came on after it, about the 5 or 6 people
who survived a nuclear war?


 * SLMR 2.1a * I'm just here for moral support... ignore the gun...

--- TMail v1.31.5
 * Origin: MultiSystem * Cincinnati, OH * 513-231-7013 * (1:108/205)

Ä [20] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 181 of 233
 From : Brandon Wolgast                     1:363/281       .óá 11 .àé 96 18:41
 To   : All
 Subj : Interludes - Thoughts 1/2
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE/32 1.2
Well, this now surpasses "A Late Delivery from Avalon" for the very best
episode of season 3 yet.  In fact, this takes the place of the number 1
episode of all time from "The Long, Twilight Struggle."

Spoiler...
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There we go, we're safe.. wait, I thought Kosh was safe also...

Lets hit this one right off the bat... Kosh is DEAD.  I cannot believe it.
For this episode I avoided every spoiler, I KNEW someone was going to die
in it, however I honestly thought it would be Morden.  I thought Londo was
going to tear him apart.

But no... well, that Kosh scene at the end (and the beginning! We'll get to
that one also!), has SO much in it, I know I cannot beging to get to it all,
or even hope to.  That has got to be some of the best writing since "Avalon"
and "Inquistor."  It was PERFECT. I loved it, I have watched just that scene
alone over 10 times now, this is one scene I just cannot seem to get enough
of.  I know soon I probably will, but for now, well, I could care less about
"War Without End."  Usually I am awaiting an episode, not this time, this one
is still with me.  At LEAST we know for a fact that Kosh went down fighting,
and he fought HARD according to JMS.  It's just so hard to keep knowing that
David Sheridan was actually Kosh in this one, I mean, sure you KNOW it, but
just to think about what Sheridan's dad SAID, and knowing it was Kosh saying
it, just, well, it's sad, and for me, something being sad means it had to of
been done right.  I have never been SAD an an episode of B5 until now, I have
felt bad plenty of times, but never, ever, not once have I been sad and mad
at the same time.  The scene was just so perfect, it could have been screwed
up majorly, but JMS handled it well.  Instead of showing some overblown CGI
battle, they just showed very, very brief glimpses of Kosh getting hit, it
felt like one of those really well done classic horror movies.  You do not
have to see a lot of blood or fighting, or even the murder itself, it's just
looking at it when it's over that you KNOW that it was a furious fight.  JMS
has not commented, at least that I have seen yet, on if Kosh took any of the
Shadows out, but I doubt he did, I'm sure he got his blows in, but I doubt
he got any of them damn bastards.

Morden in that scene... I have see a *LOT* of speculation on him in this
episode.  I feel, like many, that Morden did NOT want to be there when Kosh
died.  It was more of the Shadows saying to him, "Here, this is a test, you
watch us kill him."  and at the end when his encounter suit was fully broke
open, and it looked like a candle going out in Mordens face-plate thing, look
at his eyes, he can see Kosh, I'm guessing for what he REALLY is, I doubt
he appeared as an angel to him, whatever Kosh is, Morden did NOT want to see
him die.

Also, I have heard speculation from some over-zelous fans that think Kosh
is still alive, or will be back (ala Spock), nope, he's an ex-Kosh, he's gone
and will not be back, except maybe in "War Without End" but we'll get to that
in a second.

No, we'll get to that now. <g>  JMS just recently stated that he was poisoned
just the way shown, he trusted Sinclair enough to reveal a portion of himself,
some have said why did he do that and JMS said because he RECOGNIZED Sinclair,
my guess is, they have met, in the past somehow, or in the future and, well
it will all make sense in "War Without End."

Kosh's ship.. Ivanova looked really upset that it killed itself, I mean it
sang to her in her dreams and everything, and the last line "In rememberence
of Kosh."  very sad.  I know some who say Kosh's death was nothing major, well
it was.  We have known him for over 4 years now, coutning the premier.  I felt
worse for him than for Talia, Keffer, even Sinclair leaving.  Oh, and Na'Toth.
Evidently during the screening Patrica Tallman was in tears watching the
scene.

More on Kosh now, the first scene, in the hallway.  I can't say it any better
except to say it was awesome.  Pure and simply awesome.  When Kosh was
slamming Sheridan against the wall and "eyeing" him, and saying "Impudent,"
among other things, it just SOUNDED awesome.  I really wish Kosh would have
been upset more often.  And the Z'Ha'Dum thing... "Yes... now."  And the,
"You do not understand... but you will."  I feel like JMS is "rubbing"
something in our faces, as if WE should maybe have cought on by now, and when
we see what he means, we'll all go "DUH!"  But who knows.

Still sticking with the Vorlons for now, was that battle with the Shadows just
not kick ass?  And that red ship?  It just man handled that WIMPY Shadow
vessel!  And one of my favorite scenes was just when the Vorlon fighters were
going at that Shadow Cruiser, and it just kept turing around and around
looking for something to fire at but couldn't "get a lock" I guess you could
say.  And the big kick ass cruiser, that thing had like, well, not this, but
you know.. SHIELDS.  Not shields, but like, well it just was awesome, I
actually prefer this battle over the big huge one in "Severed Dreams."  And
then the Vorlon ship took ANOTHER shot and just like a little part of it's
"appendage."  It showed nothing of being hit.  One thing though, from this
we know the Vorlons use "normal" jumpgate technology.  I don't want to hear
that they were "not showing all thier tech" now, they would have had no
reason not to come in normally. No other "young race" was around to witness
this battle.  So if the Vorlons are ever outnumbered their just as dead as
that Narn fleet.  I wonder if any of the Shadow ships escaped...  I really
would like to see a Vorlon cruiser taking on a Shadow cruiser in single
combat.  I also like how the Vorlon ships all have markings on them, kinda
cool.  I know we'll be seeing more.

And one last thing on the Vorlons, don't worry, we're almost done. <g>
The new Vorlon ambassador is coming, some people are saying he will look,
sound, and act just like Kosh. I sure hope not.  I hope he has a different
encounter suit, voice, and personality.  I mean, I doubt anyone within the
League would notice, and if they did, are they gonna go up to him and say
"Hey, your not Kosh, take off that suit so we can see who you really are!"
I doubt it.

Now... Franklin... is he off the show or what?  I thought he was, but JMS
stated that we would see him coping and dealing with his problem, so I guess
he is still on, yet that hand shake scene just felt like "I'm going." type
of thing, I guess not.

Oh, btw, there was a cut scene of a Ranger taking on a Shadow, but it was
cut...

Londo, he KNOWS Morden had a part in it.  I feel this is going to happen. He
is so ticked, so confused and sad, he just lost the ONLY thing that meant
a damn to him and he is going to strike out at anyone and everyone.  Morden
and the Shadows will of course help him, and when that is done, I feel Londo
is going to turn on Morden, and that is when the Shadows will turn towards
Centauri Prime.  Londo I just love to hate. You feel so much pitty for him,
then hate him, then sorry, then hate, then, well it's a loop type of thing.

Anyway, this one gets 10 Star Furies out of 10.  I didn't think you could get
much better than "Avalon," but JMS has struck again.

>>> Continued to next message

***
 * OLX 2.1 * Backup not found: (A)bort (R)etry (P)anic

--- Use the FORCE!!!
 * Origin: Feduberator * STAR WARS Support * (407)381-2798 (1:363/281)

Ä [20] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 182 of 233
 From : Brandon Wolgast                     1:363/281       .óá 11 .àé 96 18:41
 To   : All
 Subj : Interludes - Thoughts 2/2
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE/32 1.2

>>> Continued from previous message

And quickly a subject on "War Without End."  At least in Orlando the preview
for it is pathetic, I mean truly pathetic.  It is even fast forwarded. If
you have internet access or aOL access, get the 30 second preview.  It's
much better. Ivanova even doesn't just say, "We're under attack." she gets
her full sentence in, "We're under attack.  They're killing us!"  The question
is.. who?  Check it out, that scene with the Fury being blown up is either
a Vorlon beam or a Minbari beam... hmm...  But anyway, check out the AVI
for it on AOL/Internet, it is far better than the preview after the show.

***
 * OLX 2.1 * Backup not found: (A)bort (R)etry (P)anic

--- Use the FORCE!!!
 * Origin: Feduberator * STAR WARS Support * (407)381-2798 (1:363/281)

Ä [20] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 183 of 233
 From : Frank Glover                        1:2613/477      .cê 12 .àé 96 20:56
 To   : Don Bach
 Subj : Re: STAR TREK GENERATIONS
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

DB>   EF>    That brings up another question:  Did Data actually
DB>   EF> have a toilet in his quarters?
DB>
DB>  This is TV Science Fiction.  The characters never have to use the
DB>  toilet, so there are none in the ST universe.

   Some (not necessairily me, now mind you) would say this proves the superority
of the Babylon 5 universe. At least there, Susan Ivonav once acknowledged a need
to go to the bathroom...... (g)

   Frank


--- QuickBBS 2.80 (Zeta-1.9A)
 * Origin: The Matrix Data Bank BBS, Rochester, Ny (1:2613/477)

Ä [20] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 184 of 233
 From : Frank Swarbrick                     1:104/825       .óá 11 .àé 96 18:47
 To   : Wes Yahola
 Subj : Strange Luck!!!
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12  92-0022
On 05-10-96  05:03 Wes Yahola, the heir to the kingdom of idiots, said:

 -=> Quoting Tom Widera to All <=-

 TW> My FOX
 TW> friday line-up:    7:00pm-8:00pm   Sliders
 TW>                    8:00pm-9:00pm   Strange Luck
 TW>                    9:00pm-10:00pm  Xfiles
 TW>                    10:00pm-10:30pm   News
 TW>                    10:30pm-12:30am Sci-Fi Movie (something modern)
 TW> This would be a good friday nite line-up..........

 WY> i say dump the news, read a paper in the morning, throw in
 WY> MST3K at Midnight, and it'd be pretty perfect.

Now we know who doesn't go out on Friday nights!  :-)

        Frank

... The Psi Corps Is Your Friend.  Trust The Corps.
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12
 * Origin: The Bailey Information Exchange BBS, 28.8k v.fc  (1:104/825.0)

Ä [20] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 185 of 233
 From : Owen E. Oulton                      1:243/45        .óá 11 .àé 96 18:14
 To   : Don Bach
 Subj : STAR TREK GENERATIONS
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 EF>    That brings up another question:  Did Data actually
 EF> have a toilet in his quarters?

 DB> This is TV Science Fiction.  The characters never have
 DB> to use the toilet, so there are none in the ST universe.

That's not true. :-)

There is one toilet in the Trek universe.  It's in the brig of the Enterprise-A
(must've been a bad toilet to get locked up).  Didn't you notice that the seat
Kirk used in STV:TFF had a lid and was labeled "Do not use while in Spacedock?"

CFN, O

--- Maximus 2.01wb
 * Origin: Pandora's Box, Ottawa, Ont. 613-829-1209 (1:243/45)

Ä [20] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 186 of 233
 From : Jerry Schiff                        1:250/401       .cê 12 .àé 96 08:54
 To   : Wes Yahola
 Subj : Strange Luck!!!
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
although i agree with you that we do not need a news cast on
strange friday (sliders... its great)
we do have two great comedies on the opposite end of the intelligence
spectrum ....
air farce, when not in re-runs or hockey season, is great
(but you have to be up on the idiot-polictical scene to understand
the jokes)
and ed's night party (slimy, gross, and fun)
example:
 the great ed-o the magnificant....
 answer:   tongue twister
 question: what is the new game at lesbian slumber parties!

... Fer sell cheep: IBM spel chekker. Wurks grate.

--- ProBoard v2.15 [Reg]
 * Origin: Cowgirl's Rodeo - International - 416-466-0363 (1:250/401)

Ä [20] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 187 of 233
 From : James Glaser                        1:119/300       .óá 11 .àé 96 16:09
 To   : All
 Subj : Doctor Who 1996!
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
________                  __                   __      __.__
\______ \   ____   ____ _/  |_  ____ _______  /  \    /  \  |__   ____
 |    |  \ /  _ \_/ ___\\   __\/  _ \\_  __ \ \   \/\/   /  |  \ /  _ \
 |    `   \  <_> )  \___ |  | (  <_> )|  | \/  \        /|   Y  \  <_> )
/_______  /\____/ \___  >|__|  \____/ |__|      \__/\  / |___|  /\____/
        \/            \/                             \/       \/
          Paul McGann.  Premiere.  The Doctor must save Earth
              from his nemesis, The Master. (S) (CC) FOX.
      ______                         ____ _______
     /  __  \ ______   _____        /_   |\   _  \  ______   _____

     >      < \____ \ /     \  ______|   |/  /_\  \ \____ \ /     \

    /   --   \|  |_> >  Y Y  \/_____/|   |\  \_/   \|  |_> >  Y Y  |
    \______  /|   __/|__|_|  /       |___| \_____  /|   __/|__|_|  |
           \/ |__|         \/                    \/ |__|         \/
              _____                     ________   ________
             /     \  _____   ___.__.   \_____  \ |   ____/
            /  \ /  \ \__  \ <   |  |    /  ____/ |____  \
           /    Y    \ / __ \_\___  |   /       \ /       \
           \____|__  /(____  // ____|   \_______ \______  / /\
                   \/      \/ \/                \/      \/  )/
                    ____  ________  ________   ________
                   /_   |/   __   \/   __   \ /  _____/
                    |   |\____    /\____    //   __  \
                    |   |   /    /    /    / \  |__\  \
                    |___|  /____/    /____/   \_____  /
                                                    \/
                                            _
                               /\ o        (_|   |o    |
                              |  |     _  _  |   |   __|   _   __
   __________________________ |  || /|/ |/ | |   || /  |  |/  /  \___
  |O|                          \_||/ |  |  |_ \_/ |/\_/|_/|__/\__/ |O|
  | |                           /|   James.Glaser@Fatal.Com        | |
  |O|                           \|                                 |O|
-----------------------------/\----------------------------------------

--- QScan/WC v1.18b / 01-0625
 * Origin: FATAL ERROR of Redding Ca. 916-365-7456 (1:119/300)

Ä [20] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 188 of 233
 From : The Raven                           1:363/309       .óá 11 .àé 96 02:47
 To   : All
 Subj : Babylon 5 Spoiler
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
     You know what to do...




























     Okay, I *DARE* anyone to tell me that they forsaw Kosh getting wacked.
I *dare* you!  I sure as hell didn't.  This was an unexpected, but somehow
satisfying (in a story sense), turn of events.  Now the Vorlons are in it
up to their armpits, and everyone in the galaxy other than the Centauri are
lining up against the Shadows.
     Bad juju, boys and girls...
     Morden (and the Shadows) are taking off the gloves and fighting
barehanded... and now that Londo has lost all hope, we're going to see more
death and destruction because of him... (and here I thought he was on the
slow road to redemption).  I'm still waiting for Vir to decide enough is
enough and pop Morden.  He certainly has the brass for it, if he decides he
wants it...

     And so... next week, Michael O'Hare (or as I call him, Pinnochio the
Wooden Actor) comes back and Bab4 gets pulled through to the future.
     Gentlemen, start your engines...

     Jack Butler




... "The dark can hold a multitude of sins." -- Dana Scully
--- Blue Wave/DOS v2.20 [NR]
 * Origin: Forethought BBS -=- Orlando, FL -=- 407-679-6561 (1:363/309)

Ä [20] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 189 of 233
 From : The Raven                           1:363/309       .óá 11 .àé 96 19:53
 To   : Barbara Withrow
 Subj : Question on 4 season
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 "This just in from our Moscow Bureau..."

 BW> I would like to know if you have any information concerning the
 BW> showing of the 4 th. season of Highlander on the USA network in
 BW> the Eastern US.

     Well, first off, you should know that USA is only rebroadcasting the
episodes in syndication.  New episodes (the entire 4th season) are broadcast
each week.  WGN used to broadcast originals; I am unsure of whether or not
they do *now*, however.  Otherwise, consult your local TV listings.


 BW> From what I have read in other postings, there are more episodes
 BW> following the episodes "Finale" parts 1&2.  Is this correct?  After
 BW> "Finale" 1 & 2 USA started showing a mixture of the previous seasons'
 BW> shows.

     They do that because the 4th season eps have yet to be released in
syndication.  The fourth season, still in progress, will probably be released
for syndication sometime next fall.


 BW> Also, would you or anyone else have a list of the show titles in
 BW> order of presentation?  It would really be a helpful reference.

     I'll dig one up for you.

     Jack Butler



 BW> Thanking you in advance.
 BW> bj



 BW> ... "You still have lots of time!" -- Duncan MacLeod
 BW> -!- GEcho 1.10+
 BW>  ! Origin: The Solutions BBS 606-329-9733 (1:2260/175)



... "There are greater gifts than Immortality..." -- Kalas
--- Blue Wave/DOS v2.20 [NR]
 * Origin: Forethought BBS -=- Orlando, FL -=- 407-679-6561 (1:363/309)

Ä [20] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 190 of 233
 From : The Raven                           1:363/309       .óá 11 .àé 96 21:32
 To   : Kim Wheat
 Subj : Highlander News!
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 "This just in from our Moscow Bureau..."

 DJ> That doesn't necessarily signify.  You can have a genetic trait that
 DJ> causes sterility.  It merely must be recessive as mentioned earlier.
 DJ> However, the rules which restrict immortals, such as the one about
 DJ> "holy ground" suggest that immortality is more than biological in it's
 DJ> nature.

 KW> But to add to this conversation...I always thought the
 KW> 'restriction' on 'holy ground' fighting was more on the lines of a
 KW> 'Gentleman's Agreement' than it was that immortals /CAN'T/ fight on
 KW> holy ground.
 KW> Raven? Care to shed some light on this?

     David's right.  There is more to Immortality in this series than just
genetics.  Its magic.  The prohibition on killing on holy ground isn't just
a gentleman's agreement... they *cannot* kill on holy ground.

     Jack Butler



... "Its a Raymond Chandler evening at the end of someone's day."
--- Blue Wave/DOS v2.20 [NR]
 * Origin: Forethought BBS -=- Orlando, FL -=- 407-679-6561 (1:363/309)

Ä [20] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 191 of 233
 From : The Raven                           1:363/309       .óá 11 .àé 96 23:42
 To   : Bob Klahn
 Subj : HIGHLANDER NEWS!
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
  "This just in from our Moscow Bureau..."

 BK> It has never been formally presented as magic at all anywhere I have
 BK> seen. If they are going to make it magic when do they bring on the
 BK> dragons and mages? Maybe they can make it every bit as silly as 'Kung
 BK> Fu, the Legend Continues."

     You piker... I swear.  Did you have to practice this, or does it come
naturally.

     It is obvious that you are beyond help.  That plonking sound you hear
is the sound of your ass hitting the bottom of my twit filter.

     Jack Butler



... You're dismissed.  I got no more use for you.
--- Blue Wave/DOS v2.20 [NR]
 * Origin: Forethought BBS -=- Orlando, FL -=- 407-679-6561 (1:363/309)

Ä [20] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 192 of 233
 From : The Raven                           1:363/309       .cê 12 .àé 96 02:59
 To   : Lawrence E Dunlap
 Subj : Soft/Slaver Weapon
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 "This just in from our Moscow Bureau..."

 LED> Thanks, I didn't know Ringworld Engineers was out.

     Just for the last 16 years or so...

     Jack Butler



... "Doesn't anyone want to speak to me?  I'm the host." -- Space Ghost
--- Blue Wave/DOS v2.20 [NR]
 * Origin: Forethought BBS -=- Orlando, FL -=- 407-679-6561 (1:363/309)

Ä [20] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 193 of 233
 From : Kay Shapero                         1:102/524       .cê 12 .àé 96 12:59
 To   : Don Bach
 Subj : STAR TREK GENERATIONS
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <May 09 07:30>, Don Bach (1:3632/65) wrote to Eric Fishbein:

 EF>    That brings up another question:  Did Data actually
 EF> have a toilet in his quarters?

 DB>This is TV Science Fiction.  The characters never have to use the
 DB>toilet, so there are none in the ST universe.

OTOH, we've seen the restrooms on Babylon 5 a few times... :->

--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [20] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 194 of 233
 From : ROBERT LIDGREN                      1:134/10        .îí 13 .àé 96 01:21
 To   : ALL
 Subj : INDEPENDENCE DAY
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Has anyone found a source of information about the summer movie "Independence
Day?"  I have read a little bit here and there and know that the plot involves
an alien invasion of the United States but beyond that I have heard very
little.

Any further information would be appreciated!

Thankyou in advance!
-Rob
--- PCBoard 15.2
 * Origin: 32 lines 40 Gig BBS, Realtime InterNet SLIP (403)299-9900 (1:134/10)

Ä [20] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 195 of 233
 From : Paul Worley                         1:2601/515      .îí 13 .àé 96 02:44
 To   : All
 Subj : forever knight
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Hello All!

I just saw the episode Ashes to Ashes.  Can someone tell me, was this the last
episode?

Paul

--- GoldED 2.42.G0614
 * Origin: USS Wolf - Wheatland, PA  (1:2601/515)

Ä [20] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 196 of 233
 From : Brion Lienhart                      1:213/700.2     .îí 13 .àé 96 13:12
 To   : Bill Warren
 Subj : Re: Starship Troopers
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On Thu May 09, Bill Warren said to Brion Lienhart:

 -BW>   Most of Paul Verhoeven's movies are good to very good; wait and see
 -BW>on STARSHIP TROOPERS.

I like his movies, (didn't he do RoboCop?), but from the synopsis somebody
posted here, it sounds like a horrible butchery of the Heinlein novel. If he had
just made a movie about giant bugs invading the Earth, I wouldn't care. However,
we can always hope that the synopsis is out to lunch, and it will bear more
resemblance to the book, than just the title.




--- QM v1.31
 * Origin: Ministry of Peace - Carson City, NV (1:213/700.2)

Ä [20] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 197 of 233
 From : Lawrence E Dunlap                   1:106/2927      .óá 11 .àé 96 19:23
 To   : All
 Subj : Starship Troopers
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
    It occured to me that one reason why Heinlein conceived of the military
caste class in *Starship Troopers* came from a belief that mankind would
survive a nuclear war where disorder and lawlessness would be contained by the
veteran military of affected nations. RAH believed a all out unlimited nuclear
war was The End.

     After 1971, RAH's writing deteriorated because of a circluatory system
disease impairing his brain. RAH didn't return until severarl years after his
brain surgery in 1978. After *TEFL* RAH officially disregarded his previous
theories about nuclear war comprising *Starship Troopers* or he choose to move
foreward from that era of his writing.

    Any post-nuclear life would necessitate new forms of behavioral
structure to a shattered civillization that a battle tested military are
naturally trained to exhibit. If the vets restored a coherent structure
to individual nations, it would be natural for those veterans to
undertake restructure the planetary nation-state system and natural that
the civillians deed to the military their voting power.

    Studies have suggested normal societial cohesion might be widely
dysfunctional even after a limited war and planetary government desirable after
a war.

    There could be a change made to a *Troopers* movie in terms of changing the
nature of the war from a Terran planetary war to a interstellar war in Terra's
past where military leaders rallied humans to fight and win a significant
victory, after which the military became the leaders of that Terran Federation.

Lawrence E Dunlap
(1:106/2927) or Internet e-mail "PostOakLED@AOL.com"

___
* UniQWK #5136* Courtesy is the lubricant of social interaction
- JetMail v1.12 - Unregistered QWK Mail Door for Spitfire

--- Alexi/Mail 2.02b (#10000)
 * Origin: Computer Living F'n BBS-Spring, TX 713-355-1596 (1:106/2927)

Ä [20] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 198 of 233
 From : Michael Christensen                 2:238/24.50     .cê 12 .àé 96 23:37
 To   : All
 Subj : Kindred: The Embrace
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
I am looking for someone who have the series "Kindred: The Embrace" and would be
interested in selling it.
If you only have some of the episodes, then send me a letter anyway and let's
see if we couldn't work something out.

 /\/\
/    \ichael Christensen

--- Spot 1.3a Unregistered
 * Origin: There can be only one... (2:238/24.50@FidoNet)

Ä [20] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 199 of 233
 From : Michael Christensen                 2:238/24.50     .cê 12 .àé 96 23:39
 To   : All
 Subj : Babylon 5 episode list
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
I am looking for someone who have an episode liste for "Babylon 5".

 /\/\
/    \ichael Christensen

--- Spot 1.3a Unregistered
 * Origin: There can be only one... (2:238/24.50@FidoNet)

Ä [20] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 200 of 233
 From : Michael Christensen                 2:238/24.50     .cê 12 .àé 96 23:40
 To   : All
 Subj : ST: Voyager episode list
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
I am looking for someone who have an episode liste for "ST: Voyager".

 /\/\
/    \ichael Christensen

--- Spot 1.3a Unregistered
 * Origin: There can be only one... (2:238/24.50@FidoNet)

Ä [20] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 201 of 233
 From : Robert Parson                       1:3822/1        .òp 14 .àé 96 14:46
 To   : All
 Subj : PINKY AND THE BRAIN
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
The fall schedule for the WB network was in USA Today, and does not include
Pinky and the Brain!

But there's some hope it may return as a midseason replacement.


... Narf!
 * Silver Xpress V4.3 SW23473

--- QScan/PCB v1.19b / 01-0162
 * Origin: Jackalope Junction 501-785-5381 Ft Smith AR (1:3822/1)

Ä [20] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 202 of 233
 From : Jeff Hancock                        1:3600/7        .óá 11 .àé 96 19:48
 To   : Sharpshooter
 Subj : STAR TREK GENERATIONS
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

SH>     And yes, the showers on a starship are almost all of the sonic
SH>variety, since 9as you might imagine) water is a valuable resource on

No one ever seems to consider that a little illegal modification and
those sonics could be scrambling your brain and turning your body to
jelly... a near-perfect assassination method, unless your target never
bathes.

You'd expect to see this in an SF murder mystery or something.

-=-
 * Crazy-J * "Of course he is, Bones!  He's! wearing! a! red! shirt!"

--- SLMAIL v3.5C  (#1540)
 * Origin: Robotech þ Lake City's Music*Demo BBS þ [904] 758*9477 (1:3600/7)

Ä [20] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 203 of 233
 From : Lawrence E Dunlap                   1:106/2927      .òp 14 .àé 96 17:11
 To   : The Raven
 Subj : Soft/Slaver Weapon
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

TR>  "This just in from our Moscow Bureau..."

LED> Thanks, I didn't know Ringworld Engineers was out.

TR>     Just for the last 16 years or so...

Oh. I DEFINITELY need to pay my library fine off SOON!

Lawrence E Dunlap
(1:106/2927) or Internet "PostOakLED@AOL.com"
* SPITFIRE v3.5
--- Alexi/Mail 2.02b (#10000)
 * Origin: Computer Living F'n BBS-Spring, TX 713-355-1596 (1:106/2927)

Ä [20] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 204 of 233
 From : Leman Russ                          1:2250/7        .îí 13 .àé 96 19:59
 To   : All
 Subj : Inconsistent shadows...
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 I've noticed what seems to be a big inconsistency in B5 and I wanted to see if
anyoneelse caught it...

 Inthe ep where the shadow fleet wipes out the narn fleet we saw a shadow take a
glancing hit from a narn weapon, The hit blew a spine off it and basically left
it helpless. In fact it had to be carried away by a siststership.

 Now it has been mentioned that the narns are the lowest tech of the major
races, so one would guess their weapons are the lowest tech too.

 In a later ep we see the white star (more about it later) engage a newly
activated shadow ship that was presumably not a full power due to an insane
pilot. The WS is supposed to be the highest tech ship they have, combining
vorlon and mimbarri tech. The WS hit the shadow cruiser with everything it had
and managed to blow a spine off, but this only enraged the shadow ship.

 Can someon explain why the lkow tech narn can hit a shadow, blow a spine off
and cripple it while the might WS can blow a spine off a shadow and only annoy
it?

 Also, how can a race that can build ships as huge and powerful as the shadow
cruisers be stupid enough to leave them laying around? In one ep we saw that the
shadows had just left a2 dormant ships laying on mars and one of jupiters moons
where anyone could find them? That seems stupid, as anyonewho foundthem could
nuke/dissect the

>;[

--- DLG Pro v1.0/DLGMail
 * Origin: Sage's Tower - Amiga - (618) 259-1844 (1:2250/7)

Ä [20] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 205 of 233
 From : Leman Russ                          1:2250/7        .îí 13 .àé 96 20:06
 To   : All
 Subj : White star = the defiant
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 I thin kthe white star from B5 is a blatant ripoff ofthe Deifant from DS9. Look
at the facts:

 Both ships are extremely small compared to normal ships oftheir respective
forces.

 Both ships are highly advanced and powerful warships that can defeat much
larger opponents.

 Both ships were designed to fight a specific alien aggressor. The defiant was
built to fight the borg and the Ws was to fight the shadows.

 Both ships have unusual technology. IThe Ws has a jump drive which is very
unusualk for a ship that small in B5 and the defiant had a cloaking device which
is unique for federation ships in DS9.

 Also, the white star looks an awful lot like a Romulan warbird from TNG.

>;[

--- DLG Pro v1.0/DLGMail
 * Origin: Sage's Tower - Amiga - (618) 259-1844 (1:2250/7)

Ä [20] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 206 of 233
 From : David Little                        1:106/7315      .òp 14 .àé 96 19:35
 To   : All
 Subj : New Who Review!
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
                 The Fox Television Premiere of Doctor Who

*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*- !!SPOILER WARNING!! -*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*






























        I must say I was very happy Dr. Who was making a return, but I was
rather hesitant to accept the mindset of FOX Television would air it. Being
a "Whovian" almost as long as I've been watching sci-fi it was difficult to
believe it would be as good (and BAD) as the BBC version.
        Well, I think I should start with the effects since that seems to be
what everyone remembers of the old show. Effects wise for the US, there was
nothing extraordinary about it, but it wasn't as cheesy as the BBC had done.
The interior of the TARDIS was done up in a Jules Vernesque decor (complete
with the Doctor reading "Time Machine") and brought back several Dr. Who
memoriabilia (for lack of a better word) including the Sonic Screwdriver,
the 900 year diary, and his yo-yo.
        To story starts as the Daleks capture the Master and execute him by
disintegration (remembering an old Tom Baker era episode "The Brain of
Morbius") and the Doctor was to bring the remains back to Gallifrey. Sure
enough the Doctor started out at Sylvester McCoy, the 7th Doctor, but gets
shot exiting the TARDIS when the Master's essence escapes and enters the
TARDIS and strands them in San Francisco on New Years Eve, 1999. The Doctor is
sent to the hospital and is almost killed by the puzzled surgeons ("Two
hearts?"). He regenerates into our new hero Paul McGann. He of course goes
through usual post-regneration amnesia and runs across the doctor, Grace
(played by Daphne Ashbrook of "Dave's World") who had operated on him and
believed our Doctor to be dead and his body missing.
        The Master takes over the body of the EMT who was taking the injured
Doctor to the hospital. Along with the boy who found the Doctor, they team up
to open the Eye of Harmony and attempt to have the Master take over the body
of the Doctor. The Doctors are attempting to get a piece of the atomic clock
at the science museum to stop the Master and close the Eye.
        Overall I found the story to be in the general theme of Who type
stories. McGann had the Doctor's usual lighthearted humor and double-talk and
pulled it off wonderfully. The new TARDIS interior was done up especially
well, better than the anti-septic look of the previous shows. The title song
was a tasteful rehash of the original series and they even kept the
re-materializing SCRATCH-BOOM so typical of the TARDIS. I would love the
show to become a series again on FOX and even maybe see the other surviving
Doctors to do another get-together show.

                                        -=The DoLittle 8-)=-


... Wonderful chap, The Doctor.  All of them. - Brig. L. Stewart
--- Blue Wave/DOS v2.30 [NR]
 * Origin: The Wizards Realm BBS 1-713-946-7315 1:106/7315 (1:106/7315)

Ä [20] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 207 of 233
 From : Bob Klahn                           1:234/2         .òp 14 .àé 96 18:20
 To   : Roy Stevens
 Subj : CHRIS ELLIOT'S SITCOM
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 RS> Anyone remember the show that came on after it, about the 5 or 6 people
 RS> who survived a nuclear war?

 Yes, I remember it, but I had almost forgotten it. Now I gotta start
 forgetting it all over again.

BOB KLAHN

... Never trust political advice from a man without children.
 * Silver Xpress V4.3P RB10275

--- FLAME v1.1
 * Origin: Telnet toltbbs.com or call 313-854-6001, Boardwatch #55 (1:234/2)

Ä [20] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 208 of 233
 From : Ken Mayes                           1:393/7         .åò 16 .àé 96 07:42
 To   : David Little
 Subj : Re: New Who Review!
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
        I agree with your assessment of the Doctor Who movie. However, I don't
think they should do another Doctor Who series. I think what would be better
would be a series of Television Movies, starring the new guy and eventually
moving on to new acters. Each installment could feature yet another of the
Doctor's classic foes such as the Daleks, Sontarans, Cybermen, et all.

        Imagine this story outline. In the year 2004, a spaceship crashlands in
the Desert outside of Los Vegas. Out of it emerges a contigent of Daleks, done
up in a new high-tech style. These Daleks, using modern special effects, hover
over the desert, their weapons firing much like the Terminator's plasma rifle
and of course the US Army is sent in to quarantine the area.
        Soldiers move in and suddenly the Daleks start moving, sweeping rapidly
and with AGILITY over the landscape destroying everything in their path. By the
time the commanders on the scene realize that they're outclassed, it's too late.
After being pasted by the Daleks the US makes an appeal to the United Nations
Intelligence Task Force (UNIT) and they send the retired Brigadier Lethbridge
Stewert out to assess the situation. He briefs the American Army generals and
suggest using the time and dimensional radio the Doctor left with UNIT to
contact the Timelord for help. The American's are skeptical about trusting the
safety of the planet to an alien, but after more defeats to the Daleks are
forced to comply and then....the Doctor arrives to save the day.

        Done as a TV movie, this could be a kick-a** flick and would help to
cement the Doctor's position on American TV. Each installment in the movie
series would/could premiere about once every three to four months or every six
months. Thoughts?


--- CNet/3
 * Origin: The Bard's Tavern Denton, TX (817)243-5110 USR 28.8   (1:393/7)

Ä [20] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 209 of 233
 From : Leman Russ                          1:2250/7        .pä 15 .àé 96 01:32
 To   : The Raven
 Subj : Re: Babylon 5 Spoiler
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 TR>      You know what to do...




























 TR>      Okay, I *DARE* anyone to tell me that they forsaw Kosh getting
 TR> wacked.
 TR> I *dare* you!  I sure as hell didn't.  This was an unexpected, but
 TR> somehow
 TR> satisfying (in a story sense), turn of events.  Now the Vorlo are in
 TR> it
 TR> up to their armpits, and everyone in the galaxy other than the
 TR> Centauri are
 TR> lining up against the Shadows.
 TR>      Bad juju, boys and girls...

 'kay, Rave, I'll tell you that Kosh getting whacked was obvious and it was
going to happen.

 You see, B5 is just Lord of the Rings in space, and Kosh was

 Gandalf. Since Gandalf bought it in LotR it was obvious that Kosh was going to
do likewise in B5.

>:{

--- DLG Pro v1.0/DLGMail
 * Origin: Sage's Tower - Amiga - (618) 259-1844 (1:2250/7)

Ä [20] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 210 of 233
 From : Leman Russ                          1:2250/7        .pä 15 .àé 96 02:00
 To   : All
 Subj : dr. who
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Sppoiler for Dr. Who 96.






















 In the very first minute of this one I knew it was going to be a
disappointment. They mentioned that the master had bene tried on Skaro, the
Dalkes homeworld.

 Remember "Remremberance ofthe daleks"? Remember Skaro being destroyed by the
Hand of Omega causing its sun to novova? Big inconsistency.

 Then of course the master just comes back as a transparent cobra. No
explaination....sigh.

 I did like the new doctor, but did have to kiss the woman? Dr.Who went for a
long time without that sort of thing. Kind of tells you something.

 The new TARDIS was cool, with lots of retrotech look, but what did the bats in
the cloister room live on?

  As tothe Dr. being half human, no. I won't accep this as official. Nope,
never.

 The new master stunk on ice, none of Anthony Ainleys cha or energy. I thinkthe
actor was a bad tommy lee jones clone.

 Maybew they'll do another movie with the daleks...

>;[

--- DLG Pro v1.0/DLGMail
 * Origin: Sage's Tower - Amiga - (618) 259-1844 (1:2250/7)

Ä [20] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 211 of 233
 From : Karl Lembke                         1:102/749       .åò 16 .àé 96 17:14
 To   : Kay Shapero
 Subj : SCI FI
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Kay Shapero, citing the Rules of Acquisition to Dave MacLean, said:

 KS> suppose I'd better put in a Ceremonies of Light and Dark spoiler or
 KS> people will talk...

And I suppose I'd better LEAVE it in, or ....



















 KS> How'd you like the epic battle between Londo and the bug last episode?
 KS> A real ROFLer!
 KS> And then there's Vir's new.. wife?  fiance?  Sorta between?  I was
 KS> reminded of a young cat bringing you a mouse to play with as a token
 KS> of her esteem, and totally bewildered by your reaction.  By the end of
 KS> that episode, I was half expecting Vir to ask Minbar for asylum. :->

Pity Vir wasn't a little faster on his feet.  He could have told Sheridan
and Ivanova that the matter was not their concern, and then briefed them
later.

Pity bald-faced lying ... er ... DIPLOMACY isn't in his nature.

Or maybe it's for the best.

... Stop the violence...HIT BACK!
--- Blue Wave/QBBS v2.20 [NR]
 * Origin: Hooray For Hollywood * Los Angeles,CA -=- 213-653-7508 (1:102/749)

Ä [20] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 212 of 233
 From : Karl Lembke                         1:102/749       .pä 15 .àé 96 21:59
 To   : James Glaser
 Subj : Doctor Who 1996!
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
James Glaser, citing the Rules of Acquisition to All, said:

 JG> Paul McGann.  Premiere.  The Doctor must save Earth
 JG> from his nemesis, The Master. (S) (CC) FOX.


I thought it was quite well done, and quite faithful to the
BBC series.  The only thing lacking was the rubber aliens. :-)

...........Karl

... "A joke...is a story with a humorous climax." - Spock
--- Blue Wave/QBBS v2.20 [NR]
 * Origin: Hooray For Hollywood * Los Angeles,CA -=- 213-653-7508 (1:102/749)

Ä [20] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 213 of 233
 From : Lawrence E Dunlap                   1:106/2927      .ÿò 17 .àé 96 20:11
 To   : Wes Yahola
 Subj : Starship Troopers
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

WY>Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't the bug war humankind's first
WY>contact with extraterrestials (the bugs and the skinnies)?

    That wasn't entirely clear in Heinlein's writing but clearly the
Federation valued military preparedness against extraterrestrials
regardless of theoritical possibilities against any life anywhere else
in the galaxy. *Troopers* Terran Federation appearently believed their
theoritical scientific model about human life predicted sentient life
everywhere will potentially be equally vigorous and expansionist

    Since 1959, Heinlein progressively moved off from that notion in
*Troopers* because he realized such vigorousness of life would have
already brought aliens to us by now.

WY>If that's changed in a movie to explain the genesis of the Federation, that
WY>would undercut the main thrust of the story. Which seemed to me to be more
WY>about 1) Jonnie's personal growth (common theame for all kinds of genres)
WY>and 2) an examination of a better human society of the future while poking at
WY>contemporary sillyness (none of which has changed since 1959. Except for the
WY>date of the war, this could have been about today).  .  .  .

    Your position about changing the premise of the movie is possible
but complex. How you make the better human society sound better without
entangling oneself in 1996 US politics/political correctness criticism
is a challenge that might evade nearly everyone making the movie.

    RAH was his own script doctor and kvetched about the frequent
results of those who took those few scripts from him in *Grumbles From
The Grave*. RAH eventually adopted the legendary position of SF writers
their novels will be handled for cinematic productions only by serious,
knowledgeable script writers and left as intact as possible.

    Keeping RAH's kvetching in mind, Virginia Heinlein (yes, Wes, he was
married and you *can* detect when RAH's absteience to prevent fatherhood
in a nuclear war age ceased being in effect) might unexpectedly ditch
the movie if "Ginny" feels no faith in a script doctor even *comes near*
the computer word processor script of *Troopers*

Lawrence E Dunlap
(1:106/2927) or Internet "PostOakLED@AOL.com"


___
* UniQWK #5136* No being can be truly sentient without laughter.
- JetMail v1.12 - Unregistered QWK Mail Door for Spitfire

--- Alexi/Mail 2.02b (#10000)
 * Origin: Computer Living F'n BBS-Spring, TX 713-355-1596 (1:106/2927)

Ä [20] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 214 of 233
 From : Brion Lienhart                      1:213/700.2     .ÿò 17 .àé 96 10:22
 To   : Bill Warren
 Subj : Re: Starship Troopers
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On Tue May 14, Bill Warren said to Brion Lienhart:

 -BW>Well, maybe, but that hardly means the movie will automatically be
 -BW>bad.  I do not consider faithfulness to be a particularly important
 -BW>aspect in adapting a novel to the movies.  Heinlein's novel is
 -BW>virtually plotless, and a great deal of it takes place in a
 -BW>schoolroom.  There are few characters, very little character
 -BW>interactions, and a few, widely-spaced, action sequences.  Not
 -BW>suitable for straight filming.

Then they should have just made a movie about guys in armour blowing stuff up,
and not tried to pretend that it had any relation to the book. The average movie
goer probably doesn't even know who Heinlein is, and the Heinlein fans are going
to be pissed off about it.




--- QM v1.31
 * Origin: Ministry of Peace - Carson City, NV (1:213/700.2)

Ä [20] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 215 of 233
 From : Jan De Smedt                        2:292/403.2     .îí 13 .àé 96 08:33
 To   : Jan vantEnt
 Subj : Re: Julian May - Magnificat
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Hi Jan,

In a message of 06 May 96 Jan vantEnt (2:512/1.1) wrote to Jan De Smedt
about"Julian May - Magnificat":

 Jv> It's a hardcover; publisher is Knopf; price probably around $25
 Jv> (available in England for UK#17.50; best bet in Holland would be the
 Jv> American Bookshop in Amsterdam or Den Haag).

Thanks for the info, but I would like to buy it in Antwerp, where I live.
Even more, do you know if it has already been translated into Dutch? The
prequels have been published by "Het Spectrum", Utrecht and if it has, my wife
can read it too.

I thought you would know I live in Belgium from my point number and my e-mail
address ;-)

Thanks again for your reply.
Greetings,
Jan

Fidonet : 2:292/403.2
Internet: jan.de.smedt@connectvzw.be

_Due to a quantum fluctuation in this area a tagline is generated:_
Star Trek DS9: Ferengi rules of acquisition
#144. There is nothing wrong with charity...as long as it winds up in your
pocket.
---
--- ScanMail 0.70
 * Origin: * Connect BBS +32-14231429 * (2:292/403.2@fidonet.org)

Ä [20] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 216 of 233
 From : Jan De Smedt                        2:292/403.2     .îí 13 .àé 96 08:39
 To   : Nicolai Shapero
 Subj : Re: Julian May - Magnificat
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Hi Nicolai,

In a message of 05 May 96 Nicolai Shapero (1:102/524) wrote to Jan De Smedt
about"Julian May - Magnificat":

 NS> ISBN 0-679-44177-8, Copyright 1996 by Starykon Productions, Inc.
 NS> Alfred A. Knopf, publisher, New York, 1996.  My copy is an SF Book
 NS> Club edition, so I don't have a current price (sorry about that).

Thanks very much for your quick reply!

Greetings,
Jan

Fidonet : 2:292/403.2
Internet: jan.de.smedt@connectvzw.be

_Due to a quantum fluctuation in this area a tagline is generated:_
Star Trek DS9: Ferengi rules of acquisition
#47. Don't trust a man wearing a better suit than your own. - Rivals
---
--- ScanMail 0.70
 * Origin: * Connect BBS +32-14231429 * (2:292/403.2@fidonet.org)

Ä [20] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 217 of 233
 From : Bob Klahn                           1:234/2         .ÿò 17 .àé 96 18:18
 To   : Roy Stevens
 Subj : CHRIS ELLIOT'S SITCOM
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
->> RS> Anyone remember the show that came on after it, about the 5 or 6
->> people RS> who survived a nuclear war?
->> Yes, I remember it, but I had almost forgotten it. Now I gotta start
->> forgetting it all over again.
->> BOB KLAHN


 RS> I don't know how my email address got involved in this conversation but
 RS> I'm receiving these msgs.

 RS> Just thought you might like to know

 I haven't the foggiest either, I just hit "R" from my offline reader.

 Consider it a gift.

BOB KLAHN

... Here's to a long plague or a bloody war.... British Army toast
 * Silver Xpress V4.3P RB10275

--- FLAME v1.1
 * Origin: Telnet toltbbs.com or call 313-854-6001, Boardwatch #55 (1:234/2)

Ä [20] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 218 of 233
 From : Bob Klahn                           1:234/2         .ÿò 17 .àé 96 18:18
 To   : All
 Subj : DR. WHO
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 Ok, it wasn't all bad. However......
 .
  .
   .
    .
     .
      .
       .
        .
         .
          .
           .
            .
             .
              .

 The idea of the Daleks trying the master for his crimes was a violation of
 the entire premise of the Daleks. The idea of the Daleks granting the
 Master's last request to have the Doctor transport his remains to Galafrey
 is even worse.

 The Daleks do not try anyone. They destroy anyone whom they consider an
 impediment, not because the other is a criminal but because the Daleks are
 Daleks.

 If the Daleks ever got the chance they would destroy the Doctor without a
 second thought.

 The Doctor is not half human.

 The Doctor does not have romantic relationships with human women.

 These were added as easy ways to open some doors to an American audience.
 They are betrayals of the series and it's fans.

 The TARDIS does not have an "Eye of Harmony" that will open for a human and
 suck in the Earth. If they want to invent one they could do a better job of
 it.

 The Doctor cannot bring people back to life by going back before they died.
 That is well established. When they die they stay dead.

 All in all I am disappointed. Even the theme seems butchered.

 The scenes with the Master taking over the ambulance driver's body had me
 saying, "They made a damned horror movie out of it."

 Well, it wasn't all horror, but it was bad enough.

 Even the device that supposedly gave the Master the Doctor's remaining lives
 was as cheesy as anything from the series.

BOB KLAHN

... Death:  to stop sinning suddenly.
 * Silver Xpress V4.3P RB10275

--- FLAME v1.1
 * Origin: Telnet toltbbs.com or call 313-854-6001, Boardwatch #55 (1:234/2)

Ä [20] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 219 of 233
 From : Bob Klahn                           1:234/2         .ÿò 17 .àé 96 18:18
 To   : Leman Russ
 Subj : BABYLON 5 SPOILER
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 LR>  'kay, Rave, I'll tell you that Kosh getting whacked was obvious and it
 LR>  was going to happen.

 LR>  You see, B5 is just Lord of the Rings in space, and Kosh was

 LR>  Gandalf. Since Gandalf bought it in LotR it was obvious that Kosh was
 LR>  going to do likewise in B5.
>>:{

 Other than the fact that Gandalf did not buy it in LOTR, that is an
 excellent, by which I mean thought provoking, suggestion.

BOB KLAHN

... Do not open tag line; No user serviceable parts inside.
 * Silver Xpress V4.3P RB10275

--- FLAME v1.1
 * Origin: Telnet toltbbs.com or call 313-854-6001, Boardwatch #55 (1:234/2)

Ä [20] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 220 of 233
 From : Bob Klahn                           1:234/2         .ÿò 17 .àé 96 18:18
 To   : Leman Russ
 Subj : DR. WHO
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 LR>  In the very first minute of this one I knew it was going to be a
 LR> disappointment. They mentioned that the master had bene tried on Skaro,
 LR> the Dalkes homeworld.

 LR>  Remember "Remremberance ofthe daleks"? Remember Skaro being destroyed
 LR>  by the Hand of Omega causing its sun to novova? Big inconsistency.

 See my comments on this.

 LR>  Then of course the master just comes back as a transparent cobra. No
 LR> explaination....sigh.

 Hated this too.

 LR>  I did like the new doctor, but did have to kiss the woman? Dr.Who went
 LR>  for a long time without that sort of thing. Kind of tells you
 LR>  something.

 Yea, they couldn't do it right.

 LR>  The new TARDIS was cool, with lots of retrotech look, but what did the
 LR>  bats in the cloister room live on?

 Actually I liked the bats.

 LR>   As tothe Dr. being half human, no. I won't accep this as official.
 LR>   Nope, never.

 Second this.

 LR>  The new master stunk on ice, none of Anthony Ainleys cha or energy. I
 LR>  thinkthe actor was a bad tommy lee jones clone.

 I didn't hate him that much, but I thought he didn't have the Master's
 "style."

 LR>  Maybew they'll do another movie with the daleks...
>>;[

 Maybe they'll do a good one. Probably not, but we can always hope.

BOB KLAHN

... I'm never difficult...Imposible maybe, difficult, never.
 * Silver Xpress V4.3P RB10275

--- FLAME v1.1
 * Origin: Telnet toltbbs.com or call 313-854-6001, Boardwatch #55 (1:234/2)

Ä [20] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 221 of 233
 From : Nicolai Shapero                     1:102/524       .åò 16 .àé 96 03:43
 To   : Leman Russ
 Subj : Inconsistent shadows...
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <May 13 19:59>, Leman Russ (1:2250/7) wrote to All:

 LR> Can someon explain why the lkow tech narn can hit a shadow, blow
 LR>a spine off and cripple it while the might WS can blow a spine
 LR>off a shadow and only annoy it?

Simple:  while lower tech, the Narn ships might be able to deliver more energy
from one of their cruisers than the Minbari can from the White Star.  And the
Narn's aren't the lowest in tech of the major races (unless Humans aren't a
major race) -- they sold tech to the EA during the Earth-Minbari war, IIRC, so
if you wanted a relative tech level listing, I'd think it would go:
VORLON:MINBARI:CENTAURI:NARN:EARTH in order of decreasing tech.

 LR> Also, how can a race that can build ships as huge and powerful
 LR>as the shadow cruisers be stupid enough to leave them laying
 LR>around? In one ep we saw that the shadows had just left a2
 LR>dormant ships laying on mars and one of jupiters moons where
 LR>anyone could find them? That seems stupid, as anyonewho foundthem
 LR>could nuke/dissect the

The Shadows have done some pretty stupid things, I'll admit.  But so has
everyone else...

-- And what do YOU want?


--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [20] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 222 of 233
 From : Nicolai Shapero                     1:102/524       .åò 16 .àé 96 03:47
 To   : Leman Russ
 Subj : White star = the defiant
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <May 13 20:06>, Leman Russ (1:2250/7) wrote to All:

 LR> I thin kthe white star from B5 is a blatant ripoff ofthe Deifant
 LR>from DS9. Look at the facts:

I think you're stretching it.

 LR> Also, the white star looks an awful lot like a Romulan warbird
 LR>from TNG.

Say what?  I don't think it looks anything like a Romulan warbird.

-- Nicolai Shapero, the Mad Russian Sysop of StormGate Aerie

--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [20] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 223 of 233
 From : Nicolai Shapero                     1:102/524       .ÿò 17 .àé 96 21:34
 To   : Derek Wakefield
 Subj : Star Wars & SF/F Collection 4Sale
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <May 16 21:46>, Derek Wakefield (1:393/7@fido) wrote to All:

 DW>STAR WARS COLLECTION FOR SALE:...

[rest of advertisement deleted]

My apologies, old chap, but this is NOT the "for sale" conference.  Anything
that asks for money is OFF TOPIC.  (I make an exception for fan run SF
convention notices...having been on concoms, I know that break-even is rare, and
a profit virtually unheard of.)

Please refrain from such posts in future.

Thank you for your cooperation,

-- Nicolai Shapero, Moderator of the SFFAN echo

--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [20] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 224 of 233
 From : Kay Shapero                         1:102/524       .ÿò 17 .àé 96 23:40
 To   : Karl Lembke
 Subj : SCI FI
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <May 16 17:14>, Karl Lembke (1:102/749) wrote to Kay Shapero:
I think the spoiler is no longer a requirement, so I'm pulling it back out
again.

 KL>Pity Vir wasn't a little faster on his feet.  He could have told
 KL>Sheridan and Ivanova that the matter was not their concern, and then
 KL>briefed them later.

 KL>Pity bald-faced lying ... er ... DIPLOMACY isn't in his nature.

 KL>Or maybe it's for the best.

Yeah, Vir wouldn't be Vir if he could do things like that.  It's just not in
him.  And so he will likely always be doing the right thing and getting the
shaft for it.

--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [20] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 225 of 233
 From : Ken Mayes                           1:393/7         .îí 20 .àé 96 09:22
 To   : Bob Klahn
 Subj : Re: DR. WHO
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On Fri 17-May-1996  6:18p, Bob Klahn wrote:

BK>  The Doctor is not half human.

        The Doctor's human connection was alluded to many times during the final
three years of the BBS series.

BK>  The TARDIS does not have an "Eye of Harmony" that will open for a human
BK> and
BK>  suck in the Earth. If they want to invent one they could do a better job
BK> of
BK>  it.

        Actually the 'Eye of Harmony' does not exist within the TARDIS. The
thing in the TARDIS was merely the dimensional doorway to the eye. The 'Eye' was
introduced in the original series and was stated to have been a black hole that
Rassilon captured and held in dimensional stasis against the mass of the planet
Galifrey. In fact, it was the Master who originally opened the Gallifreyan
portal to the 'Eye' in the Tom Baker era which almost destroyed the Timelord's
home world. The 'Eye' was stated to be the source of the Timelords powers.

BK>  The Doctor cannot bring people back to life by going back before they
BK> died.
BK>  That is well established. When they die they stay dead.

        The Doctor didn't do it. Remember he uttered the line "What a
sentimental old thing this TARDIS is. That indicated to me that TARDIS itself
did that, and remember the energy that emerged from the eye and enveloped them.
I may be wrong, but I suspect that also had something to do with it.




--- CNet/3
 * Origin: The Bard's Tavern Denton, TX (817)243-5110 USR 28.8   (1:393/7)

Ä [20] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 226 of 233
 From : Wes Yahola                          1:123/569       .îí 20 .àé 96 06:15
 To   : Lawrence E Dunlap
 Subj : Starship Troopers
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE 1.11+

 -=> Quoting Lawrence E Dunlap to Wes Yahola <=-

 LED> in the galaxy. *Troopers* Terran Federation appearently believed their
 LED> theoritical scientific model about human life predicted sentient life
 LED> everywhere will potentially be equally vigorous and expansionist
 LED> Since 1959, Heinlein progressively moved off from that notion in
 LED> *Troopers* because he realized such vigorousness of life would have
 LED> already brought aliens to us by now.

         <g> What if they're only as vigorous as we've been?


 WY>If that's changed in a movie to explain the genesis of the Federation,
 WY>WY>[that] would undercut the main thrust of the story.
 LED> Your position about changing the premise of the movie is possible
 LED> but complex. How you make the better human society sound better
 LED> without  entangling oneself in 1996 US politics/political correctness
 LED> criticism  is a challenge that might evade nearly everyone making the
 LED> movie.

     That's what I'm saying. Plus it would have to be a very long film to
 cover everything as well. (But then, even with the changes Gone With the
 Wind was a pretty fine film. So I guess it's not impossible, but I would so
 fear another Dune)


 LED> RAH eventually adopted the legendary position of SF
 LED> writers  their novels will be handled for cinematic productions only by
 LED> serious,  knowledgeable script writers and left as intact as possible.

    Let's hope.





... Listen! You smell something?
--- Blue Wave/RA v2.12 [NR]
 * Origin: 9 out of 5 Schizos prefer Lunatic Fringe! 382-LUST (1:123/569)

Ä [20] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 227 of 233
 From : Kay Shapero                         1:102/524       .cê 19 .àé 96 08:56
 To   : Roy LeBlanc
 Subj : X-FILES Echo
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <May 17 14:23>, Roy LeBlanc (1:396/17.40) wrote to All:

 RL>Is there a Fidonet Echo where discussions of The X-Files
 RL>television program is on topic?

Dunno about a specialized one, but it's perfectly on topic in here.

--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [20] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 228 of 233
 From : Bob Klahn                           1:234/2         .cê 19 .àé 96 23:15
 To   : Leman Russ
 Subj : INCONSISTENT SHADOWS.
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 LR>> Also, how can a race that can build ships as huge and powerful
 LR>>as the shadow cruisers be stupid enough to leave them laying
 LR>>around? In one ep we saw that the shadows had just left a2
 LR>>dormant ships laying on mars and one of jupiters moons where
 LR>>anyone could find them? That seems stupid, as anyonewho foundthem
 LR>>could nuke/dissect the

 I got the impression those were left as residue from the last war. Why there
 was no significant improvement in shadow tech in 1000 years is a good
 question, but also a possible explanation to much that happens. Could be the
 shadows have stultified technologically.

BOB KLAHN

... A weapon is an enemy even to its owner.    Turkish Proverb.
 * Silver Xpress V4.3P RB10275

--- FLAME v1.1
 * Origin: Telnet toltbbs.com or call 313-854-6001, Boardwatch #55 (1:234/2)

Ä [20] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 229 of 233
 From : Bob Klahn                           1:234/2         .cê 19 .àé 96 23:15
 To   : Brion Lienhart
 Subj : STARSHIP TROOPERS
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 -BW>>bad.  I do not consider faithfulness to be a particularly important
 -BW>>aspect in adapting a novel to the movies.  Heinlein's novel is

 BL> Then they should have just made a movie about guys in armour blowing
 BL> stuff up, and not tried to pretend that it had any relation to the
 BL> book. The average movie goer probably doesn't even know who Heinlein
 BL> is, and the Heinlein fans are going to be pissed off about it.

 Excellent point, well stated.

BOB KLAHN

... A happy cat means a happy household.
 * Silver Xpress V4.3P RB10275

--- FLAME v1.1
 * Origin: Telnet toltbbs.com or call 313-854-6001, Boardwatch #55 (1:234/2)

Ä [20] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 230 of 233
 From : Michael Baker                       1:108/430       .cê 19 .àé 96 11:46
 To   : All
 Subj : Files
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: FastEcho 1.40 8380
The Dead Zone at Has one of the Largest Sci-FI file areas you've ever seen!.
..tons of sound files, gifs, programs, 1960's themes ect. There are a couple
of ways you can get these files:

           1. Call at 513-521-0705 and log on using " Guest " as your
           name/handel...then " Guest " again for the password.
           2. Freq " SF " for a file list of all the SF files, then freq
           the " filename " to receive the files you want.

 we are updating these files weekly and you should call/freq regularly to
 get any updates, and if there is anything you want send me a message and
 I'll look for the file for you.

          The Dead Zone
          1:108/430
          Krall@one.net



... "A phaser is the universal communicator." - Worf
--- Blue Wave v2.12
 * Origin: The Dead Zone " Earth2..B5..Startrek..Dr Who.." (1:108/430)

Ä [20] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 231 of 233
 From : Jeff Hancock                        1:3600/7        .cê 19 .àé 96 13:42
 To   : Leman Russ
 Subj : Inconsistent shadows...
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

LR> Inthe ep where the shadow fleet wipes out the narn fleet we saw a
LR>shadow take a glancing hit from a narn weapon, The hit blew a spine

Actually it took a blast from four or six extremely heavy laser cannons
(that stretch nearly the length of the Narn Heavy Cruiser) which
happened to converge on that exact spot.  They were probably aiming for
the center of the ship, but it managed to dodge.

LR>off it and basically left it helpless. In fact it had to be carried
LR>away by a siststership.

The ship was not helpless, and in fact, it fired one of the
energy-blasts which collapsed a jumppoint.

As far as the towing, my personal theory is that the spines are somehow
essential to their trick of phasing into hyperspace.  Kind of like the
way ST needs to separate the warp nacelles to generate an efficient warp
field; either the shape or the composition of the spines are required to
phase out.  So it's not that the ship was helpless, just that it
couldn't get into hyperspace by itself once wounded in that manner.

Might also affect their maneuverability.

LR> In a later ep we see the white star (more about it later) engage a
LR>newly activated shadow ship that was presumably not a full power due
LR>to an insane pilot. The WS is supposed to be the highest tech ship
LR>they have, combining vorlon and mimbarri tech. The WS hit the shadow

The true Vorlon ships are probably better.

LR> Can someon explain why the lkow tech narn can hit a shadow, blow a
LR>spine off and cripple it while the might WS can blow a spine off a
LR>shadow and only annoy it?

The second Shadow didn't need to and didn't try to go into hyperspace.

LR> Also, how can a race that can build ships as huge and powerful as
LR>the shadow cruisers be stupid enough to leave them laying around? In

They went to ground in the aftermath of the last war, and perhaps they
don't know where all their ships are buried.  Having your fleet
scattered and on the run in every direction makes it a bit hard to let
all the others know where you're hiding out... And even if you could,
then the capture of one would reveal the location of all.

LR>on mars and one of jupiters moons where anyone could find them? That
LR>seems stupid, as anyonewho foundthem could nuke/dissect the >;[

And they retrieved the one on Mars as soon as they found out about it.

-=-
 * Crazy-J * "Alas, poor Naranek!  I knew him, Sheridan...."

--- SLMAIL v3.5C  (#1540)
 * Origin: Robotech þ Lake City's Music*Demo BBS þ [904] 758*9477 (1:3600/7)

Ä [20] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 232 of 233
 From : Richard Sarner                      1:271/236       .cê 19 .àé 96 13:01
 To   : Bob Klahn
 Subj : Re: BABYLON 5 SPOILER
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE 1.11+
In a message to Leman Russ <05-17-96 18:18> Bob Klahn wrote:

BK=>  LR>  Gandalf. Since Gandalf bought it in LotR it was obvious that
BK=>  Other than the fact that Gandalf did not buy it in LOTR, that is an
BK=>  excellent, by which I mean thought provoking, suggestion.

Umm, are you denying the fight with the Balrog, his return as the White, and the
dialogue with Gladriel?

...Richard

--- GEcho 1.11+
 * Origin: THE TIME MACHINE (804)599-6401 TRAVEL THE PORTALS! (1:271/236)

Ä [20] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 233 of 233
 From : Frank Glover                        1:2613/477      .cê 19 .àé 96 19:36
 To   : Roy LeBlanc
 Subj : Re: X-FILES Echo
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

RL>  Is there a Fidonet Echo where discussions of The X-Files television
RL>  program is on topic?

   I don't know if there's an X-Files *specific* echo, but you're on one now!
It's very much on topic here.

   Frank


--- QuickBBS 2.80 GoldBase (Zeta-1.9A)
 * Origin: The Matrix Data Bank BBS, Rochester, Ny (1:2613/477)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 1 of 154
 From : David Little                        1:106/7315      .îí 20 .àé 96 08:05
 To   : Barton Paul Levenson
 Subj : New Who Review!
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
-=< Barton Paul Levenson used the Jedi Mind Trick on me!>=-

 BPL> Sounds good.  Someone taped it for us and has lent us the tape.

 BPL> I appreciate the idea of Jules Vernesque decor, but reading "The Time
 BPL> Machine" wouldn't fit with that.  "The Time Machine" is by H.G. Wells
 BPL> (1896).

        BUT, the TARDIS didn't look like Wells' Time Machine (from the movie
anyway)! It looked more along the lines of Vernes' "Nautilus" or his
helicopter ship.

                                        -=The DoLittle 8-)=-


... "Who is the Doctor?" "You, are Number Eight." McGoohan as new Dr.
--- Blue Wave/DOS v2.30 [NR]
 * Origin: The Wizards Realm BBS 1-713-946-7315 1:106/7315 (1:106/7315)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 2 of 154
 From : Leman Russ                          1:2250/7        .îí 20 .àé 96 21:33
 To   : David Little
 Subj : Re: dr. who
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 DL>         I thought he was very well played. The fingernail being
 DL> pulled off,
 DL> his leather, his coldness in killing everyone(unlike that Matter
 DL> Decompressor

 I think what he used was called a "Tissue compression eliminator"...

>;[

--- DLG Pro v1.0/DLGMail
 * Origin: Sage's Tower - Amiga - (618) 259-1844 (1:2250/7)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 3 of 154
 From : Bob Klahn                           1:234/2         .îí 20 .àé 96 20:35
 To   : Roy Stevens
 Subj : CHRIS ELLIOT'S SITCOM
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 RS> Wow, thanks

 You're welcome, I can't recall what for, but you're welcome.

 I went back and looked it up. OK, now I get it, and it's actually funny. <G>

BOB KLAHN

... Charter member, Obsolete Equipment Club of North America.
 * Silver Xpress V4.3P RB10275

--- FLAME v1.1
 * Origin: Telnet toltbbs.com or call 313-854-6001, Boardwatch #55 (1:234/2)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 4 of 154
 From : Star Hawk                           1:362/708.6     .cê 19 .àé 96 11:55
 To   : Don Bach
 Subj : STAR TREK GENERATIONS
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
From my perch I saw this come out of the gravity well from Don Bach:

  [> Eric Fishbein [> That brings up another question:  Did Data actually
  [> have a toilet in his quarters?

  [> Don Bach [> This is TV Science Fiction.  The characters never have to
  [> use the toilet, so there are none in the ST universe.

     You must have missed the scene in a Babylon 5 episode where two of the main
male characters are discussing business while relieving themselves at a bank of
urinals in one of the station's public restrooms.  <g>  They even washed up
afterwards at a bank of sinks.
     You are right in that this is generally not shown or referred to by the TV
industry.  [JMS, or Harlan, being contrary...]

                                        Star Hawk, the EchoTrickster

--- MacWoof Eval:23Dec93
 * Origin: William Bull Hedrick @ Hawk Haven's Orbital Point (1:362/708.6)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 5 of 154
 From : Chris Myers                         1:2613/313      .îí 20 .àé 96 19:45
 To   : Bill Warren
 Subj : Re: Starship Troopers
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
There was a movie based on Starship Troopers?  Read the book but I never
heard of a movie.  I thought everyone had just rediscovered the book.

--- QScan/PCB v1.17b / 01-0406
 * Origin: Knight Moves - Rochester,NY 716-865-2106 (1:2613/313)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 6 of 154
 From : Scott Worden                        1:13/75         .îí 20 .àé 96 14:05
 To   : Helen Peagram
 Subj : Re: Highlander
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

HP>I watched it for a while, but soon grew bored with it.  It
HP>isn't realistic.

  Not realistic..   That's why they call it science-fiction.  Star Wars ain't
realistic.    Plus people out there do cut other people heads off.  They are
called sickos but that beside the point.
LAter
 The Scottman
! Up the Irons!

* There Can Be Only One *
-Highlander: The Series-
#1
---
 * Origin: Al's Cabin in Milford, PA (717)-686-3037 *[DDS HQ]* (1:13/75)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 7 of 154
 From : John A. Leopard                     1:133/1063      .cê 19 .àé 96 22:25
 To   : Barton Paul Levenson
 Subj : Re: Half-human
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On Sat 18-May-1996  8:29a, Barton Paul Levenson said to Earl Green:

BL> I find the concept idiotic.  As Carl Sagan put it, such crossings are
BL> about as likely as the mating of a man with a petunia.

        They did that in Star Trek: Voyager!  (grin).

        But I agree.  I like the comment made by someone on the cancelled show
"Earth II" (something like) "we have more in common genetically with a mosquito
than the inhabitants of this planet".  However, a VERY advanced civilization
could produce such a creature, by selectively combining millions of DNA segments
- but the offspring would a total scientific creation.

BL> I liked the Dr. just happening to be a Terraphile, as some Americans are
BL> Anglophiles.

        Me too, but I'm not going to get upset about it.

        John
--- CNet/3
 * Origin: Inside OUT BBS (404) 325-8476 - /\tlanta, GA. (1:133/1063)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 8 of 154
 From : Paul Worley                         1:2601/515      .òp 21 .àé 96 00:51
 To   : Michael Baker
 Subj : Files
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Hello Michael!

19 May 96 11:46, Michael Baker wrote to All:

 MB> The Dead Zone at Has one of the Largest Sci-FI file areas you've
 MB> ever seen!. ..tons of sound files, gifs, programs, 1960's themes

 MB>  1. Call at 513-521-0705 and log on using " Guest " as your
 MB>  name/handel...then " Guest " again for the password.
 MB>  2. Freq " SF " for a file list of all the SF files, then freq
 MB>  the " filename " to receive the files you want.

Would you happen to have anything relating to either Roddy McDowell or Planet
of the Apes????

Paul

--- GoldED 2.42.G0614
 * Origin: USS Wolf - Wheatland, PA  (1:2601/515)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 9 of 154
 From : Gerry Normandeau                    1:163/430       .òp 21 .àé 96 00:44
 To   : David Little
 Subj : dr. who
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Standing at the gallows pole David Little spat a curse on Leman Russ, accusing
him of dr. who!

 DL> -=< Leman Russ used the Jedi Mind Trick on me!>=-

 LR> Sppoiler for Dr. Who 96.

 DL> Reply Spoiler!




















 LR> In the very first minute of this one I knew it was going to be a
 LR> disappointment. They mentioned that the master had bene tried on
 LR> Skaro, the Dalkes homeworld.
 LR> Remember "Remremberance ofthe daleks"? Remember Skaro being destroyed
 LR> by the Hand of Omega causing its sun to novova? Big inconsistency.

 DL> Not quite so...perhaps the capture and dissintegration
 DL> happened before the explosion. "That's the problem with time travel." -
 DL> The Doctor
 LR> Then of course the master just comes back as a transparent cobra. No
 LR> explaination....sigh.

 DL> Yeah, that was a bit of a dissapointment. Perhaps a Time Lord
 DL> can reconstitue themselves after a dissintegration? If you remember
 DL> "Brain of Morbius" the Time Lords scattered Morbius's "Atoms to the
 DL> four corners of the universe" to perhaps prevent this.

Acctually this is covered in the series. The master at one point takes over the
powers of a god, Damn if I can't remember his name! But I do Remember that the
symbol of this god was a cobra, and very much like what they showed. I have to
go back and ask my friends what the name of that god was! And remember the
master has many tricks up his sleave and they did keep all his parts together
in a pot unlike Morbius who was scattered to ends of the universe.
 God I hope they play the show again here. I havent seen it for years.
 If I may take a stab at explaining the Eye Of Harmony. The prime powersourse
for the time lords is a great black hole in the center of the planet. It was
never mentioned how the tardes receives this energy especially if they go
back in time befoure the time lords. From looking at it it looks like a white
hole. In theory a white hole is the point in space where all of the material
that is suked into a black hole is releaced. A bit of a streach but I like
it. :)

                        Nexis@Offsprng.Takeone.com
                  Gerry.Normandeau@Offsprng.Takeone.com
                         cn754@Carlton.Freenet.ca
... AD&D FLW: "I didn't even know Zeus was mad at me."

___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20 [NR]

--- Maximus 2.01wb
 * Origin: Watership Down BBS, Kanata , ON (1:163/430)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 10 of 154
 From : Leman Russ                          1:2250/7        .åò 16 .àé 96 14:37
 To   : Robert Parson
 Subj : Re: PINKY AND THE BRAIN
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 RP> The fall schedule for the WB network was in USA Today, and does not
 RP> include
 RP> Pinky and the Brain!

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!

>:[

--- DLG Pro v1.0/DLGMail
 * Origin: Sage's Tower - Amiga - (618) 259-1844 (1:2250/7)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 11 of 154
 From : Leman Russ                          1:2250/7        .åò 16 .àé 96 14:38
 To   : Bob Klahn
 Subj : Re: CHRIS ELLIOT'S SITCOM
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 RS> Anyone remember the show that came on after it, about the 5 or 6 peop
 RS> who survived a nuclear war?

 BK>  Yes, I remember it, but I had almost forgotten it. Now I gotta
 BK> start
 BK>  forgetting it all over again.

 You mean "Oops!?" <G>

>:[

--- DLG Pro v1.0/DLGMail
 * Origin: Sage's Tower - Amiga - (618) 259-1844 (1:2250/7)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 12 of 154
 From : Leman Russ                          1:2250/7        .ÿò 17 .àé 96 05:31
 To   : Bob Klahn
 Subj : Re: HIGHLANDER NEWS!
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 BK>  This is truly pitiful. Please try to either do a better job of
 BK> making your
 BK>  point, or a better job of flaming. You did poorly at which ever.

 I can see you're the same as you were on the B5 echo.

 Unfortunantly.

>;[

--- DLG Pro v1.0/DLGMail
 * Origin: Sage's Tower - Amiga - (618) 259-1844 (1:2250/7)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 13 of 154
 From : Leman Russ                          1:2250/7        .óá 18 .àé 96 18:31
 To   : Frank Swarbrick
 Subj : Re: forever knight
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
As far as I'm concerned, the series died when they got rin of Schanke, Omaha and
"zhannet", and I pretty much quit watching it then.

>;[

--- DLG Pro v1.0/DLGMail
 * Origin: Sage's Tower - Amiga - (618) 259-1844 (1:2250/7)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 14 of 154
 From : Leman Russ                          1:2250/7        .óá 18 .àé 96 18:36
 To   : Nicolai Shapero
 Subj : Re: Inconsistent shadows...
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 Actually I still thimnk the Narn were the lowest tech race, they just had
weapons to spare during the mimbarri war.

 Also, remember that B5 defeated a centauri cruiser, which means its tech isn't
too low.

>;[

--- DLG Pro v1.0/DLGMail
 * Origin: Sage's Tower - Amiga - (618) 259-1844 (1:2250/7)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 15 of 154
 From : Michael Christensen                 2:238/24.50     .pä 15 .àé 96 20:07
 To   : Frank Glover
 Subj : Re: STAR TREK GENERATIONS
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
In a message of 12 May 96 Frank Glover wrote to Don Bach:

 FG>    Some (not necessairily me, now mind you) would say this proves the
 FG> superority of the Babylon 5 universe. At least there, Susan Ivonav once
 FG> acknowledged a need to go to the bathroom...... (g)

I've just seen an episode where you see 2 of the characters talking together in
a bathroom.

 /\/\
/    \ichael Christensen

--- Spot 1.3a Unregistered
 * Origin: There can be only one... (2:238/24.50@FidoNet)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 16 of 154
 From : James Walton                        1:129/260       .pä 22 .àé 96 10:43
 To   : All
 Subj : Writing Contest
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
PARSEC is proud to announce its Second Annual Science
Fiction writing contest, in conjunction with ConFluence '96.

PARSEC, the Pittsburgh area science fiction club, is offering
a $100 cash prize to the best fantasy or SF short story.
This year's theme is "Forged in Iron;" therefore each
short story submitted must feature "Iron" in some way, shape
or form.

The best story will be published in the ConFluence '96
program book.  Stories must be 3500 words or shorter.

There is NO entry fee.

ConFluence is the  annual Pittsburgh area science fiction
and fantasy convention.  ConFluence '96 will be held from July
26-28, 1996 at the Sheraton Hotel in Mars, Pa.  Our guest of honor
is Nebula award winner Michael Swanwick.  Dozens of other professional
writers, editors and artists will also attend.  The convention
attracts more than 300 attendees from all over the Midwest.

The stories will be judged by members of the club.  At the
club's discretion, the second place winner may also receive
a cash prize and be published in the program book. All
publication rights revert to the author after Confluence.

This contest is open to anyone (pro or amateur) who submits
a story of the correct length, and meets the topic
restrictions.  The manuscript must be double spaced, the
title must appear on the top of each  page and each page
must be numbered.  The author's name should not appear
anywhere in the manuscript.

A title page must accompany the manuscript, which includes
the author's name, address, and the title of the story.
Stories may be submitted on a PC or MAC disk in a plain text
format.  Remember, the story cannot be longer than
3500 words.  If you want your manuscript or disk returned,
include a SASE with your entry.  All submissions must be
received by June 15, 1996.

Any manuscripts which do not adhere to the above guidelines
will be returned unread.

Send manuscripts or disks to:

      PARSEC Short Story Contest
      PO Box 3681
      Pittsburgh, PA 15230-3681

Electronic submissions may be sent to
jjwalton@telerama.lm.com
(electronic submissions need not be double-spaced).
---
 * Origin: Up in James' Attic, (412)-431-2891,  (1:129/260)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 17 of 154
 From : Todd Sullivan                       1:202/720.3     .òp 21 .àé 96 17:37
 To   : Bob Klahn
 Subj : INCONSISTENT SHADOWS.
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Reports from the Interior indicate that Bob Klahn leaked the following to Leman
Russ, re: INCONSISTENT SHADOWS.

 LR>>> dormant ships laying on mars and one of jupiters moons where
 LR>>> anyone could find them? That seems stupid, as anyonewho foundthem
 LR>>> could nuke/dissect the

 BK>  I got the impression those were left as residue from the last war. Why
 BK> there
 BK>  was no significant improvement in shadow tech in 1000 years is a good
 BK>  question, but also a possible explanation to much that happens. Could
 BK> be the shadows have stultified technologically.

The general impression (in the B5 area) is that perhaps they've reached their
limit of development, and have plateau'd out.  Nothing will change unless and
until something happens in a drastic fashion, evolutionaryily (is that a word?>
speaking.

Todd Sullivan

... "It is not fit that man should be compared with gods." --Catullus

-*- ASTG 1.9

--- Spot 1.3a Unregistered
 * Origin: Todd's Spot in the Continuum (1:202/720.3)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 18 of 154
 From : David Little                        1:106/7315      .pä 22 .àé 96 07:40
 To   : Leman Russ
 Subj : dr. who
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
-=< Leman Russ used the Jedi Mind Trick on me!>=-

 DL>         I thought he was very well played. The fingernail being
 DL> pulled off, his leather, his coldness in killing everyone(unlike that
 DL> Matter Decompressor

 LR> I think what he used was called a "Tissue compression eliminator"...

        "You are correct, sir!" Been a while since I dug out the tapes and
watched a couple of episodes.

                                        -=The DoLittle 8-)=-


... "It worked! Now if only I could remember what I did!" The Doctor
--- Blue Wave/DOS v2.30 [NR]
 * Origin: The Wizards Realm BBS 1-713-946-7315 1:106/7315 (1:106/7315)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 19 of 154
 From : Earl Green                          1:3822/1        .pä 22 .àé 96 13:53
 To   : All
 Subj : Second movie unlikely.
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Geez, it gets WORSE.
   If anyone's going to save Doctor Who now, it will have to be the BBC
and/or an American syndication distributor.
   The word came in from Fox this morning - Doctor Who BOMBED in the
ratings.  It was their lowest rated Movie of the Week for the May sweeps
period, and one of the lowest rated Fox broadcasts overall for that same
period.  There were numerous cartoons that topped it ratings-wise.
   As you probably know if you read my earlier diatribe about ratings
and how seriously American networks and distributors take them, you will
know that this makes a second movie outing for the Doc on U.S. TV *very*
unlikely.  Even the theoretical prospect of syndication of new shows is
not promising, for the same reason.  In the eyes of the networks,
distributors and TV stations, Doctor Who proved itself to be a total
wash-out...and then, they'll argue, why should we pick up a show that
won't pull in the needed numbers?
   I'll be interested to see Segal's take on this, as well as any word
from the BBC.  It's not completely impossible for the entire production
to move back to England, though I wonder if that would affect emigre'
McGann's involvement.  The standard of effects today, even at the Beeb
and especially with computer image processing and effects (witness RD6),
means that a new series made in Britain in '96 or '97 would not be far
behind the quality of the Fox movie, though it would probably be shot on
video.
   This just isn't a banner week in Doctor Who history. 8-{
      e  <-- Earl Green (earl.green@f1.n3822.z1.fidonet.org)  1:3822/1
                  Producer/staff artist, Fox 46/UPN 32, Fort Smith, AR
---
 * SLMR 2.0 * My name is not honey.

--- QScan/PCB v1.19b / 01-0162
 * Origin: Jackalope Junction 501-785-5381 Ft Smith AR (1:3822/1)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 20 of 154
 From : Bob Klahn                           1:234/2         .pä 22 .àé 96 17:15
 To   : Ken Mayes
 Subj : DR. WHO
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 KM> On Fri 17-May-1996  6:18p, Bob Klahn wrote:

BK>>  The Doctor is not half human.
 KM>         The Doctor's human connection was alluded to many times during
 KM>         the final three years of the BBS series.

 Otherwise known as the "Years of Decline."

BK>>  The TARDIS does not have an "Eye of Harmony" that will open for a human
BK>> and
BK>>  suck in the Earth. If they want to invent one they could do a better job
BK>> of
BK>>  it.

 KM>         Actually the 'Eye of Harmony' does not exist within the TARDIS.
 KM>         The thing in the TARDIS was merely the dimensional doorway to
 KM>         the eye. The 'Eye' was introduced in the original series and
 KM>         was stated to have been a black hole that Rassilon captured and
 KM>         held in dimensional stasis against the mass of the planet
 KM>         Galifrey. In fact, it was the Master who originally opened the
 KM>         Gallifreyan portal to the 'Eye' in the Tom Baker era which
 KM>         almost destroyed the Timelord's home world. The 'Eye' was
 KM>         stated to be the source of the Timelords powers.

 Now I vaguely recall it. Still don't care for the gimmick.

BK>>  The Doctor cannot bring people back to life by going back before they
BK>> died.
BK>>  That is well established. When they die they stay dead.

 KM>         The Doctor didn't do it. Remember he uttered the line "What a
 KM> sentimental old thing this TARDIS is. That indicated to me that TARDIS
 KM> itself did that, and remember the energy that emerged from the eye and
 KM> enveloped them. I may be wrong, but I suspect that also had something
 KM> to do with it.

 I suspect that had everything to do with it, but it still don't work. The
 Tardis can't do it either. If it could have it would have shown up before.
 Whole armies have died, and nobody came back to life.

BOB KLAHN

... Every time I get near the top, they move the top.    <B.C.
 * Silver Xpress V4.3P RB10275

--- FLAME v1.1
 * Origin: Telnet toltbbs.com or call 313-854-6001, Boardwatch #55 (1:234/2)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 21 of 154
 From : Bob Klahn                           1:234/2         .pä 22 .àé 96 17:15
 To   : Michael Baker
 Subj : FILES
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 MB> The Dead Zone at Has one of the Largest Sci-FI file areas you've ever

 Internet address?

BOB KLAHN

... Take two Chill Pills, and call me in the morning!
 * Silver Xpress V4.3P RB10275

--- FLAME v1.1
 * Origin: Telnet toltbbs.com or call 313-854-6001, Boardwatch #55 (1:234/2)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 22 of 154
 From : Bob Klahn                           1:234/2         .pä 22 .àé 96 17:15
 To   : Wes Yahola
 Subj : STARSHIP TROOPERS
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 WY>  Wind was a pretty fine film. So I guess it's not impossible, but I
 WY>  would so fear another Dune)

 LED>> serious,  knowledgeable script writers and left as intact as possible.

 WY>     Let's hope.

 Amen.

BOB KLAHN

... One was a pompous ass, the other a garden-variety ass.
 * Silver Xpress V4.3P RB10275

--- FLAME v1.1
 * Origin: Telnet toltbbs.com or call 313-854-6001, Boardwatch #55 (1:234/2)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 23 of 154
 From : The Raven                           1:363/309       .pä 22 .àé 96 14:39
 To   : Helen Peagram
 Subj : Highlander
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 "This just in from our Moscow Bureau..."

 HP>I watched it for a while, but soon grew bored with it.  It
 HP>isn't realistic.

     It's fantasy.  Get over it.

     Jack Butler



... "Whatever happened to Fay Wray?" -- Dr. Frank N. Furter
--- Blue Wave/DOS v2.20 [NR]
 * Origin: Forethought BBS -=- Orlando, FL -=- 407-679-6561 (1:363/309)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 24 of 154
 From : Bob Ziesmer                         1:230/16        .pä 22 .àé 96 22:25
 To   : Leman Russ
 Subj : Re: White star = the defiant
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 > I thin kthe white star from B5 is a blatant ripoff ofthe Deifant from DS9.
 >Look at the facts:
 > Both ships are extremely small compared to normal ships oftheir respective
 >forces.
 > Both ships are highly advanced and powerful warships that can defeat much
 >larger opponents.
 > Both ships were designed to fight a specific alien aggressor. The defiant
 >was built to fight the borg and the Ws was to fight the shadows.
 > Both ships have unusual technology. IThe Ws has a jump drive which is very
 >unusualk for a ship that small in B5 and the defiant had a cloaking device
 >which is unique for federation ships in DS9.
 > Also, the white star looks an awful lot like a Romulan warbird from TNG.
 >--- DLG Pro v1.0/DLGMail
 > * Origin: Sage's Tower - Amiga - (618) 259-1844 (1:2250/7)

A rip off! Come on. While there are similar setups for the ships existence. The
fact is well known that ST borrows from several other scifi genera for many
story lines. The White Star is a living ship, part vorlon technology. The
defiant is simply a federation ship with a cloaking device. If you look at
starships in ST the size of the ship is for long duration missions. Several
years usually. If you build a ship with limited mission range, Put the best
engines you can get on it and some new weapon designs you have the defiant. I
believe the mission duration for the defiant is only 6 months or so but I could
be wrong. And to top it all off I have found the storylines in B5 much more
entertaining and interesting than DSN9 has had to offer. This is not to say DSN9
does not have any interesting stories, just I have found B5's alittle better.

                                    BOBZ
                              Dune Master BBS 219-879-9570

--- SLMAIL v4.5a  (#1997)
 * Origin: Dune Master BBS (219)879-9570 IBM/AMIGA/MAC/RIP (1:230/16)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 25 of 154
 From : Bill Warren                         1:102/749       .óá 25 .àé 96 08:24
 To   : Bob Klahn
 Subj : Re: STARSHIP TROOPERS
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

BK>   LED>> serious,  knowledgeable script writers and left as intact as
BK>  possible.
BK>
BK>   WY>     Let's hope.

I see.  What you want is a movie of young men sitting in a classroom going
"Huh?" when a teacher states something.  With about fifteen minutes of battle
scenes.

--- QuickBBS 2.80 GoldBase (Zeta-1)
 * Origin: Hooray For Hollywood * Los Angeles,CA -=- 213-653-7508 (1:102/749)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 26 of 154
 From : Gerry Normandeau                    1:163/430       .óá 25 .àé 96 15:34
 To   : David Little
 Subj : dr. who
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Standing at the gallows pole David Little spat a curse on Gerry Normandeau,
accusing him of dr. who!

 DL> -=< Gerry Normandeau used the Jedi Mind Trick on me!>=-

 LR> Sppoiler for Dr. Who 96.
 DL> Reply Spoiler!


















 DL> Yeah, that was a bit of a dissapointment. Perhaps a Time Lord
 DL> can reconstitue themselves after a dissintegration? If you remember
 DL> "Brain of Morbius" the Time Lords scattered Morbius's "Atoms to the
 DL> four corners of the universe" to perhaps prevent this.

 GN> Acctually this is covered in the series. The master at one point takes
 GN> over the powers of a god, Damn if I can't remember his name! But I do
 GN> Remember that the symbol of this god was a cobra, and very much like
 GN> what they showed. I have to  go back and ask my friends what the name
 GN> of that god was!
 DL>
 DL> The only snake one I remember was the one that took over Tegan
 DL> in  her dream (I can't remember the episode).

 GN> And remember the  master has many tricks up his sleave
 GN> and they did keep all his parts together in a pot unlike Morbius who
 GN> was scattered to ends of the universe.
 DL>
 DL> My point exactly. Perhaps Time Lords know they can
 DL> reconstitute  themselves after dissentegration which is why Morbius was
 DL> scattered and not kept in a pot.

 GN> God I hope they play the show again here. I havent seen it for years.
 DL>
 DL> I have almost every episode they've aired, even the complete
 DL> ones of  the Hartnell, Troughton, and Pertwee era. I'm missing a couple
 DL> of Davidson episodes, and the first episode of "The Trial".

A friend of mine in the Canadian Forces talked to a guy in the British
Army recently who is a big fan. He said the BBC made several TV movies of
Doctor Who as seperate episodes connected loosly to the series. These are not
movies simply made up of the episodes, but original movies. The guy said they
aired only in Britain and were never exported.

 GN> If I may take a stab at explaining the Eye Of Harmony.
 DL>
 DL> Only if you use a Janis Thorn...

 GN> The prime powersourse for the time lords
 GN> is a great black hole in the center of the planet.
 DL>
 DL> That sucks...

 GN> It was never
 GN> mentioned how the tardes receives this energy especially if they go
 GN> back in time befoure the time lords. From looking at it it looks like
 GN> a white hole. In theory a white hole is the point in space where all of
 GN> the material that is suked into a black hole is releaced. A bit of a
 GN> streach but I like it. :)

 DL> Then why was the Master sucked in?

I knew you would say that. :)

                        Nexis@Offsprng.Takeone.com
                  Gerry.Normandeau@Offsprng.Takeone.com
                         cn754@Carlton.Freenet.ca

 "If you save the world too often, it starts to expect it."

___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20 [NR]

--- Maximus 2.01wb
 * Origin: Watership Down BBS, Kanata , ON (1:163/430)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 27 of 154
 From : Frank Swarbrick                     1:104/825       .ÿò 24 .àé 96 22:57
 To   : All
 Subj : Nowhere Man season finale
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12  92-0022
[Do not read this message if you have any intention of watching the
first season of Nowhere Man now or any time in the future and do not
want to be absolutely spoiled about the major twist in the season
finale.]

YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED!























What a killer episode!  I've seen all but one NM episode and I've
enjoyed the series fairly well, but it hasn't been as enthralling as
perhaps it could have been.  One problem being some of the episodes
were just a tad too, well, boring.  The other being that the whole
premise of the show seemed so outlandish as to be totally
unbelievable.  But this episode seems to have solved that little
problem!

Now take for instance Tom's wife Allison.  It's one thing for the bad
guys to threaten her and tell her to pretend she doesn't recognise Tom
or they'll kill her.  But it's quite another for her to actually seem
to become part of the conspiracy, and in not just one but *three*
different episodes.

Getting back to this episode, it was obvious from the previews that
something big was going to happen, and that Tom Veil was perhaps not
what even *he* believed.  I personally theorized that maybe Tom was
actually the assassin who killed the four men in "Hidden Agenda."
Even though that didn't come to pass (well, actually, who knows!),
what we did find out was just as good, if not better.  Finding out at
the end that Tom was this "Gemini" wasn't a total suprise, as they
were pratically telescoping this to us (and finding the other set of
negatives while trying to hide his set was the absolute giveaway), but
the end of the final scene fairly blew me away.  To find out that he's
not even married to Allison, and in fact doesn't seem to be Tom Veil at
all, woah!

As I was saying, this makes the whole Allison thing absolutely
believable.  She's been working for "them" the whole time!  Not to
mention the fact that Tom always seemed to keep one step ahead.  They
most likely *let* him, just so they could see how far his implanted
memories would take him.  He's a guinea pig in their little
experiment.  I wonder how much of the pilot episode even actually
"happened", and how much was implanted.  For instance the Larry Leavy
thing.  We saw him dead in "Absolute Zero" (the pilot), but in "Zero
Minus Ten" (the recent one with his "real life" back) here he is alive
again (well, for a while).  It could be that the whole first part of
the pilot, maybe up until he ended up in the funny farm, was part of
the implanted memory.  (I can't remember if he found Leavy dead before
or after he escaped, but I'm betting it was before.)

Which brings me to pondering one of their best episodes (IMHO),
"Something About Her."  This is the one where Tom is attached to some
sort of virtual reality device (no, not the one where he's sucked
into a computer! <g>), and is given false memories of another life,
with a different girlfriend, etc.  Now that we know his "Tom Veil"
memories aren't real, why implant a false memory on top of a false
memory?  And why one that's less successful than the first?  The only
reason I can think of is to test how well ingrained the Tom Veil
personallity is.

As a final note, though Nowhere Man has not been doing very well in
the ratings (usually in the bottom 10), I think that it's actually
pretty likely the show will be renewed.  The main reason being that
it's on UPN, where most of their shows are in the bottom ten! :-)  I
had kind of been wearing down on the "they erased my life and they're
out to get me" thing, but with this new twist I can visualize the show
going on for a lot longer.  Maybe with another huge twist and the end
of each season.  I have most of the shows on tape and it might be
interesting to rewatch them with this new information at hand.

        Frank

... Her love was like a wave-division multiplexor.
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12
 * Origin: The Bailey Information Exchange BBS, 28.8k v.fc  (1:104/825.0)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 28 of 154
 From : Frank Swarbrick                     1:104/825       .ÿò 24 .àé 96 23:06
 To   : All
 Subj : Nowhere Man episode list
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12  92-0022
I have tried to record every episode of Nowhere Man all the way from
the beginning.  I have not be absolutely successful (especially when I
was without cable for three weeks), but I have managed to see all of
the episodes save one (and that was only because the darn cat turned
the cable box off while I was recording it and was out of the house!)
In any case, I'm going to post an episode list and ask a few questions
of anyone in the know...

NOWHERE MAN
~~~~~~~~~~~
Ep#.    Air Date    Episode Title
====  ============  ================================
  1.  Aug 28, 1995  "Absolute Zero"  [90 minutes]
  2.  Sep  4, 1995  "Turnabout"
  3.  Sep 11, 1995  "The Incredible Derek"
  4.  Sep 18, 1995  "Something About Her"
  5.  Sep 25, 1995  "Paradise On Your Doorstep"

  6.  Oct  9, 1995  "The Spider Webb"
  7.  Oct 23, 1995  "A Rough Whimper of Insanity"
  8.  Oct 30, 1995  "The Alpha Spike"
  9.  Nov  6, 1995  "You Really Got A Hold Me"
 10.  Nov 13, 1995  "Father" *
 11.  Nov 20, 1995  "An Enemy Within"

 12.  Nov 27, 1995  "It's Not Such A Wonderful Life"
 13.  Jan 15, 1996  "Contact"
 14.  Jan 22, 1996  "Heart of Darkness"
 15.  Feb  5, 1996  "Forever Jung" *
 16.  Feb 12, 1996  "Shine A Light On You"
 17.  Feb 19, 1996  "Stay Tuned"

 18.  Feb 26, 1996  "Hidden Agenda"
 19.  Mar 18, 1996  "Doppleganger" *
 20.  Apr  8, 1996  "Through A Lens Darkly" *
 21.  Apr 22, 1996  "The Dark Side Of The Moon" *
 22.  Apr 29, 1996  <title??>
 23.  May  6, 1996  "Zero Minus Ten"

 24.  May 13, 1996  "Marathon"
 25.  May 20, 1996  "Gemini"

I have formatted this list for 6 episodes per tape, except for #1 with
only 5 because of the 90 minute pilot.  An * means I wasn't able to
record it, for whatever reason.

The Apr 22 episode was the one that I missed.  I'm not sure whether or
not this episode, or the next one (the one where Tom is locked in a
house and keeps having weird memories when he looks into a mirror) is
called "The Dark Side Of The Moon," but I would appreciate knowing the
title to the episode who's name is missing.  (I somehow managed to
through away the TV listings before writing it down.)

Of course I'm probably the only one paying the least bit of attention
to all this, but here's hoping!

        Frank

... No one can hear when you're Screaming in Digital!
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12
 * Origin: The Bailey Information Exchange BBS, 28.8k v.fc  (1:104/825.0)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 29 of 154
 From : Frank Swarbrick                     1:104/825       .ÿò 24 .àé 96 23:24
 To   : All
 Subj : SF on TV
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12  92-0022
On 05-22-96  13:53 Earl Green, the heir to the kingdom of idiots, said:

 EG> Geez, it gets WORSE.
 EG> If anyone's going to save Doctor Who now, it will have to be the
 EG> BBC and/or an American syndication distributor.
 EG> The word came in from Fox this morning - Doctor Who BOMBED in the
 EG> ratings.  It was their lowest rated Movie of the Week for the May
 EG> sweeps period, and one of the lowest rated Fox broadcasts overall for
 EG> that same period.  There were numerous cartoons that topped it
 EG> ratings-wise. As you probably know if you read my earlier diatribe
 EG> about ratings and how seriously American networks and distributors take
 EG> them, you will know that this makes a second movie outing for the Doc
 EG> on U.S. TV *very* unlikely.  Even the theoretical prospect of
 EG> syndication of new shows is not promising, for the same reason.  In the
 EG> eyes of the networks, distributors and TV stations, Doctor Who proved
 EG> itself to be a total wash-out...and then, they'll argue, why should we
 EG> pick up a show that won't pull in the needed numbers?
 EG> I'll be interested to see Segal's take on this, as well as any word
 EG> from the BBC.  It's not completely impossible for the entire
 EG> production to move back to England, though I wonder if that would
 EG> affect emigre' McGann's involvement.  The standard of effects today,
 EG> even at the Beeb and especially with computer image processing and
 EG> effects (witness RD6), means that a new series made in Britain in '96
 EG> or '97 would not be far behind the quality of the Fox movie, though it
 EG> would probably be shot on video.
 EG> This just isn't a banner week in Doctor Who history. 8-{

My message is not specifically about Doctor Who, but about science
fiction on TV in general.  Why, except for Star Trek, and now the
X-Files, does SF seem to do so poorly on TV, yet so well (seemingly)
in movie theaters?  I mean look at the top three grossing movies of
all time.  If I'm not mistaken these are E.T., Jurassic Park, and Star
Wars (or maybe one of the sequels).  There are plenty of blockbuster
SF movies (witness the hype over Independance Day, and it still has
over a month before anyone even sees it!), so why don't these same
people watch it on TV?

Sure, each show has it's little cult following, and there've been
plenty of bad SF tv shows, but there are also good/great ones that
were cancelled before their time, like Alien Nation, VR.5, Max
Headroom, Space: Above and Beyond, even Quantum Leap should have gone
on longer and I don't think ever did all that well ratings wise.  (Dare
I mention the just cancelled Forever Knight.  Not really SF, but many
of the same fans).  Even currently running shows like Sliders and Babylon
5 don't do very well in the ratings.

So why is it that people will watch the movies but not the TV shows?

On a related subject, I've been watching the Planet of the Apes series
on the SciFi Channel recently.  I've seen maybe six or seven episodes,
and while not great television it surprised me that it was actually
fairly decent.  Certainly much better than the Fantastic Voyage series
which they showcased right before POTA.  (Hmm, both with Roddy
McDowell too...)  I think POTA deserved more that just the four months
it got.  Oh well...

        Frank

... "Please explain the scientific nature of 'the whammy'." --Scully
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12
 * Origin: The Bailey Information Exchange BBS, 28.8k v.fc  (1:104/825.0)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 30 of 154
 From : Michael Baker                       1:108/430       .óá 25 .àé 96 07:53
 To   : Bob Klahn
 Subj : Re: FILES
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: FastEcho 1.40 8380

 -=> Quoting Bob Klahn to Michael Baker <=-

 MB> The Dead Zone at Has one of the Largest Sci-FI file areas you've ever

 BK> Internet address?

   Bob..ny internet address is krall@one.net


... Pun Farr: Vulcan sex while making amusing wordplay.
--- Blue Wave v2.12
 * Origin: The Dead Zone " Earth2..B5..Startrek..Dr Who.." (1:108/430)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 31 of 154
 From : Michael Baker                       1:108/430       .óá 25 .àé 96 07:55
 To   : Paul Worley
 Subj : Re: Files
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: FastEcho 1.40 8380

 PW> Would you happen to have anything relating to either Roddy McDowell or
 PW> Planet of the Apes????


    Paul........... No not at this time, but you've got me looking now!!!
            I'll let ya know when I grab some stuff.


... Tasha Yar Supports Data Entry
--- Blue Wave v2.12
 * Origin: The Dead Zone " Earth2..B5..Startrek..Dr Who.." (1:108/430)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 32 of 154
 From : Kathy Merewether                    1:218/701       .óá 25 .àé 96 01:00
 To   : MHS:Leman Russ
 Subj : White star = the defiant
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

LR> I thin kthe white star from B5 is a blatant ripoff ofthe Deifant from DS9.
LR>Look at the facts:

LR> Both ships are extremely small compared to normal ships oftheir respective
LR>forces.

LR> Both ships are highly advanced and powerful warships that can defeat much
LR>larger opponents.

LR> Both ships were designed to fight a specific alien aggressor. The defiant w
LR>built to fight the borg and the Ws was to fight the shadows.


Wait a second Wait a second It is not the borg but the dominion that the
defient was built to fight.


LR> Both ships have unusual technology. IThe Ws has a jump drive which is very
LR>unusualk for a ship that small in B5 and the defiant had a cloaking device
LR>which is unique for federation ships in DS9.

LR> Also, the white star looks an awful lot like a Romulan warbird from TNG.
LR>>;[

LR>--- DLG Pro v1.0/DLGMail
LR> * Origin: Sage's Tower - Amiga - (618) 259-1844 (1:2250/7)


I think that the White star looks more like a Vorlon Ship than A Romulan
Bird of Prey

Panthera

--- MjrFIDO 3.25
 * Origin: Easy Street BBS - 909-590-4307 - Chino Hills, CA (1:218/701)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 33 of 154
 From : Bill Clements                       1:18/230        .ÿò 24 .àé 96 18:15
 To   : Scott Worden
 Subj : HIGHLANDER
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
From the desk of a cynical old man...

Posted 20 May 96 - Scott Worden to Helen Peagram

 SW>   Not realistic..   That's why they call it science-fiction.  Star
 SW> Wars ain't realistic.    Plus people out there do cut other people
 SW> heads off.  They are called sickos but that beside the point.

_RIDICULOUS_!_ This quote from Henry Kuttner is from "The
Innocent Eye: An Introduction" and applies as well to Motion
Picture and Television productions as it does to literature.

---------------------- BEGIN KUTTNER QUOTE ----------------------
Imaginative literature ideally reflects and interprets reality.
Future "realities" have often been handled by means of what is
actually symbolism. That is, of course, one way to do it. It is
not the only way; an integrated mirror of a future reality which
can be accepted as three-dimensional rather than as a background
of "flats" may be achieved by Heinlein's method of dynamic
continuity. Once that is achieved, the writer is free to tell a
story about the values of men and women which is significant to
the men and women who read the story. Since the future societies
which Heinlein postulates are workable societies, he can
concentrate upon the important problems of the human beings in
relation to their culture. Those problems may affect the
society, but their importance rests in how they affect the
individual. And Heinlein understands that the personality is as
complex as the society. The same man who wrote Coventry wrote
They.
----------------------- END KUTTNER QUOTE -----------------------

Quote from:

  "REVOLT IN 2100" (C)opyright 1953 by Robert A. Heinlein

--RWC

... "Never underestimate the power of human stupidity." --LL

--- PPoint 2.00 / QWK

--- FLAME v1.1
 * Origin: ANCESTRY TBBS Shadows of forgotten ancestors 941-382-9061 (1:18/230)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 34 of 154
 From : Bob Klahn                           1:234/2         .óá 25 .àé 96 17:10
 To   : Tony Sayger
 Subj : STARSHIP TROOPERS
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 TS> Falcon said this wisdom about Bob Klahn's post to Brion

 BL>> Then they should have just made a movie about guys in armour blowing
 BL>> stuff up, and not tried to pretend that it had any relation to the
 BL>> book. The average movie goer probably doesn't even know who Heinlein
 BL>> is, and the Heinlein fans are going to be pissed off about it.

 BK>> Excellent point, well stated.

 TS> Being a MAJOR Heinlein fan,

 Isn't everyone?

 TS> I'm already angry.  What's the name of the
 TS> movie?

 BL is the one with the comment, I just expressed my support. It is "Starship
 Troopers" I believe.

 We're getting a free preview of the movie services next month, and one of
 them is showing "The Puppet Masters". I can't decide if I want to see it. Do
 I want to actually know what they did, or should I pass on the probable
 disappointment?

BOB KLAHN

... When you secure an area, don't forget to tell the enemy.
 * Silver Xpress V4.3P RB10275

--- FLAME v1.1
 * Origin: Telnet toltbbs.com or call 313-854-6001, Boardwatch #55 (1:234/2)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 35 of 154
 From : Bob Klahn                           1:234/2         .óá 25 .àé 96 17:10
 To   : David Little
 Subj : DR. WHO
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 GN>> The prime powersourse for the time lords
 GN>> is a great black hole in the center of the planet.

 DL>         That sucks...

 Bet a lot of people miss the joke.

BOB KLAHN

... (A)bort, (R)etry, (I)gnore, (S)orry I Asked!
 * Silver Xpress V4.3P RB10275

--- FLAME v1.1
 * Origin: Telnet toltbbs.com or call 313-854-6001, Boardwatch #55 (1:234/2)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 36 of 154
 From : David Johnston                      1:342/14        .cê 26 .àé 96 00:49
 To   : Barton Paul Levenson
 Subj : Re: Half-Human
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
-> Well, I wasn't upset about it, I just find it stupid.
->
-> By the way, creating alien-human hybrids by selective combinations of
-> DNA sections assumes the aliens use DNA for genetic material, which
-> may or may not be the case.

I doubt that there are that many alternatives.

--- PCBoard (R) v15.21/100
 * Origin: Freddy's Place - Edm. AB - 33.6K (403) 413-3460 (1:342/14)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 37 of 154
 From : Otto Cordray                        1:106/1393      .cê 26 .àé 96 19:33
 To   : Todd Sullivan
 Subj : Doctor Who on Fox
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 TS> As for stealing the Doctor's remaining lives, that was
 TS> tried before, with equally dismal failure.

Yes, but in the episode I'm thinking of ("Mawdryn Undead", a Davison episode),
the only thing that kept the Doc' lives from being spent was both versions of
the Brigadeer touching  at just the right moment, creating a massive alternate
energy source.

     I'm sory

 TS> the Master is gone; he was the Doctor's one true foil.
 TS> Eric Roberts did very well in his run, as did Ainley

He'll be back. He's stolen other bodies before ("The Keeper of Traken").

 TS> I'd say Fox did well; a B+ from this Whovian.

I can agree with B+. I was glad that McCoy got as much time on camera as he did.
However, that part of the movie was probably a bit slow for folx who aren't
really familiar with the Doc's BBC lives.

Its going to be tough getting used to seeing real special effects in a Dr. Who
episode, though. Poor old Alpha Centauri will never get work again :)

Otto

--- Maximus/2 3.01
 * Origin: The Round Table, BBS of Gulf Coast Mensa * 922-1393 (1:106/1393)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 38 of 154
 From : Gerry Normandeau                    1:163/430       .cê 26 .àé 96 18:47
 To   : Barton Paul Levenson
 Subj : dr. who
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Standing at the gallows pole Barton Paul Levenson spat a curse on Gerry
Normandeau, accusing him of dr. who!

 BPL> I think "Kinda" was the name of that episode (with the cobra, I
 BPL> mean).

I know there is a book out there with the complete listings of all the episodes
and details. I am going to try and find it.

 BPL> White holes are out of favor in astronomy.  Probably the
 BPL> Gallifreyans have a captured quantum black hole buoyed by
 BPL> magnetic fields (black holes will hold a charge), and
 BPL> generate power by dropping matter onto it and soaking up
 BPL> the X-rays with a solar-cell like device.  That's how I'd
 BPL> do it, anyway.

Why not, it worked for the Romulans! :)

                        Nexis@Offsprng.Takeone.com
                  Gerry.Normandeau@Offsprng.Takeone.com
                         cn754@Carlton.Freenet.ca

... "Help!  I've fallen and I can't...  Hey!  Nice carpet!"

___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20 [NR]

--- Maximus 2.01wb
 * Origin: Watership Down BBS, Kanata , ON (1:163/430)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 39 of 154
 From : Gerry Normandeau                    1:163/430       .cê 26 .àé 96 18:48
 To   : Barton Paul Levenson
 Subj : Half-human
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Standing at the gallows pole Barton Paul Levenson spat a curse on John A.
Leopard, accusing him of Half-human!

 BPL> Well, I wasn't upset about it, I just find it stupid.

 BPL> By the way, creating alien-human hybrids by selective
 BPL> combinations of DNA sections assumes the aliens use DNA for
 BPL> genetic material, which may or may not be the case.

Say wasen't there an episode in the series in which the Dr. explained that
Time Lord DNA has four strands instead of the human two helix? Or am I mixing
tv shows?

                        Nexis@Offsprng.Takeone.com
                  Gerry.Normandeau@Offsprng.Takeone.com
                         cn754@Carlton.Freenet.ca

... "Chill out!  I'm just here for your hamster." - Death

___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20 [NR]

--- Maximus 2.01wb
 * Origin: Watership Down BBS, Kanata , ON (1:163/430)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 40 of 154
 From : Patrick Long                        1:271/380       .îí 27 .àé 96 09:38
 To   : Kathy Merewether
 Subj : White star = the defiant
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

KM-=>LR> Both ships were designed to fight a specific alien aggressor.
  -=>LR> The defiant was built to fight the borg and the Ws was to
  -=>LR> fight the shadows.

KM-=>Wait a second Wait a second It is not the borg but the dominion
  -=>that the defient was built to fight.

Sorry, lass, but Leman is correct - Defiant was built to be a Borg-
Buster.  However, since the Borg were (supposedly) defeated, Sisko
went to Starfleet to request it for DS9 (I'm guessing in the second
sentence, quite certain of the first) to use against the Dominion.

... What do you mean, "the computer LIKES CHEESE?"

--- ViaMAIL!/WC5 v1.00b
 * Origin: ViaMail v1.00ñv - The Gondor BBS (804) 888-1567  (1:271/380)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 41 of 154
 From : David Little                        1:106/7315      .cê 26 .àé 96 14:54
 To   : Gerry Normandeau
 Subj : dr. who
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
-=< Gerry Normandeau used the Jedi Mind Trick on me!>=-

 LR> Sppoiler for Dr. Who 96.
 DL> Reply Spoiler!
















 DL> I have almost every episode they've aired, even the complete
 DL> ones of  the Hartnell, Troughton, and Pertwee era. I'm missing a couple
 DL> of Davidson episodes, and the first episode of "The Trial".
 GN> A friend of mine in the Canadian Forces talked to a guy in the British
 GN> Army recently who is a big fan. He said the BBC made several TV movies
 GN> of  Doctor Who as seperate episodes connected loosly to the series.
 GN> These are not  movies simply made up of the episodes, but original
 GN> movies. The guy said they aired only in Britain and were never
 GN> exported.

        The "Survivor" series. I've seen their ads in Starlog.

 GN> It was never
 GN> mentioned how the tardes receives this energy especially if they go
 GN> back in time befoure the time lords. From looking at it it looks like
 GN> a white hole. In theory a white hole is the point in space where all of
 GN> the material that is suked into a black hole is releaced. A bit of a
 GN> streach but I like it. :)
 DL> Then why was the Master sucked in?
 GN> I knew you would say that. :)

        A YADWI?!? (Yet Another Dr. Who Inconsistancy)

                                        -=The DoLittle 8-)=-


... We are Dalek of Borg. Davros is irrelevant.
--- Blue Wave/DOS v2.30 [NR]
 * Origin: The Wizards Realm BBS 1-713-946-7315 1:106/7315 (1:106/7315)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 42 of 154
 From : David Little                        1:106/7315      .cê 26 .àé 96 14:58
 To   : Bob Klahn
 Subj : DR. WHO
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
-=< Bob Klahn used the Jedi Mind Trick on me!>=-

 GN>> The prime powersourse for the time lords
 GN>> is a great black hole in the center of the planet.
 DL>         That sucks...
 BK> Bet a lot of people miss the joke.

        The mentality of the average FIDO member guarentees that!! <G>

                                        -=The DoLittle 8-)=-


... PertweeDos 3.0: (A)bort (R)etry (V)enusian karate
--- Blue Wave/DOS v2.30 [NR]
 * Origin: The Wizards Realm BBS 1-713-946-7315 1:106/7315 (1:106/7315)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 43 of 154
 From : Frank Glover                        1:2613/477      .cê 26 .àé 96 18:44
 To   : Kay Shapero
 Subj : Re: X-FILES Echo
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

KS>  It's for discussing SF/Fantasy fandom topics in general - I think
KS>  it's become the default miscelaneous SF TV show discussion echo
KS>  because the other main SF echo is for literary SF only, and the other
KS>  TV related echoes are mostly limited to specific shows like BABYLON5,
KS>  or the various Star Trek echoes.

   Yep. That's why I like it here....

   Frank


--- QuickBBS 2.80 GoldBase (Zeta-1.9A)
 * Origin: The Matrix Data Bank BBS, Rochester, Ny (1:2613/477)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 44 of 154
 From : Lawrence E Dunlap                   1:106/2927      .ÿò 24 .àé 96 20:14
 To   : Tony Sayger
 Subj : Re: STARSHIP TROOPERS
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

TS>BL> Then they should have just made a movie about guys in armour blowing
TS>BL> stuff up, and not tried to pretend that it had any relation to the
TS>BL> book.  .   .

TS>Being a MAJOR Heinlein fan, I'm already angry.  What's the name of the
TS>movie?
TS>Origin: (1:366/205)

     05/24/96  20:02
    You should know that what you quoted (which I snipped) was part of a
discussion speculating that *Troopers* might be butchered.

    However, *no serious work of production has actually taken place*
past scriptwriting under Ginny Heinlein's watchful supervision for a
movie titled *Starship Troopers* and projected for release in 1996 at
the earliest.

    Ginny is RAH's widow and custodian of his estate's short stories and
novels. Ginny reportedly had *Red Planet* (an animated three part kidvid
movie) reworked several times and refilmed additionally before allowing
it to air.

    In the days after you posted this message I subsequently caught your
"de-futureizing" remark just yesterday. I respectfully point out RAH
wished to be his own "script doctor" and given my reading of RAH's
*Grumbles From The Grave* I feel certain Ginny's creative control and
veto power would regulate the excess fancies of Hollywood.

    It is possible special effects can't do justice to a credible
tricar, or even an aircar.

    These individuals, children of the producers who worked with RAH may
give respectful treatment to Ginny Heinlein because of RAH's consulting
work on *Destination: Moon* and *Tom Corbett* both filmed in the 1950s.

    Ginny gave substantial feedback to RAH and when her initial reaction
was negative it led to rewrites or a total fresh start.

    RAH owed much of his return to success in the 1970's and 1980's to Ginny.

    RAH ultimately determined that F/x was too primitive then to produce
*his* stories. As the late 1980's approached RAH began to believe his
stories' time was near, thought he knew his passing was nearer.

     It seems, IMHO, the producers of *Puppet Masters* showed great
respect to Ginny to offer her the choice in making *Masters* a near
future story.

    So don't worry. Ginny's in charge so wait for additional reports. Please.

Lawrence E Dunlap
(1:106/2927) or Internet  "PostOakLED@AOL.com"




___
* UniQWK #5136* Can you do the Picard Maneuver in a Grand Am?
- JetMail v1.12 - Unregistered QWK Mail Door for Spitfire

--- Alexi/Mail 2.02b (#10000)
 * Origin: Computer Living F'n BBS-Spring, TX 713-355-1596 (1:106/2927)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 45 of 154
 From : Kevin Ahearn                        1:109/104       .îí 27 .àé 96 00:03
 To   : Frank Swarbrick
 Subj : SF on TV
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 FS> My message is not specifically about Doctor Who, but about science
 FS> fiction on TV in general.  Why, except for Star Trek, and now the
 FS> X-Files, does SF seem to do so poorly on TV, yet so well (seemingly)
 FS> in movie theaters?  I mean look at the top three grossing movies of
 FS> all time.  If I'm not mistaken these are E.T., Jurassic Park, and Star
 FS> Wars (or maybe one of the sequels).  There are plenty of blockbuster
 FS> SF movies (witness the hype over Independance Day, and it still has
 FS> over a month before anyone even sees it!), so why don't these same
 FS> people watch it on TV?

***WARNING***
THE FOLLOWING RESPONSE IS COMING OFF THE TOP OF MY HEAD AT 12:03 A.M. AFTER A
LONG DAY TRIP TO CHARLOTTESVILLE.  IT MAY NOT MAKE THE FIRST BIT OF SENSE.

My guess is that when people go to the movies, they want to be transported to
fantastic worlds suck as those portrayed in "Star Wars" and "Jursassic Park."
However, when sitting in the comfort of their living rooms, they tend to prefer
the familiar worlds of family sitcoms such as "The Cosby Show."

Just my two cents...

--Kevin

--- Maximus/2 3.01
 * Origin: ShanErin (1:109/104)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 46 of 154
 From : Leman Russ                          1:2250/7        .ÿò 24 .àé 96 18:14
 To   : David Little
 Subj : Re: dr. who
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Someone here called the last 3 years of Dr. Who the "Years of decline". I
heartily disagree! I thinbk the last three years gave us some of the best eps
ever, including "Re,membrance of the daleks" and the one with the Authurian
characters. Whaddaya think?

"It's so hard ot program good help these days." Xanatos.

>:[

--- DLG Pro v1.0/DLGMail
 * Origin: Sage's Tower - Amiga - (618) 259-1844 (1:2250/7)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 47 of 154
 From : Leman Russ                          1:2250/7        .óá 25 .àé 96 05:03
 To   : Tony Sayger
 Subj : Re: PINKY AND THE BRAIN
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 TS> Falcon said this wisdom about Leman Russ's post to Robert
 TS> about PINKY AND THE BRAIN on 05-23-96  06:57:
 RP> The fall schedule for the WB network was in USA Today, and does not
 RP> include
 RP> Pinky and the Brain!
 LR> AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!
 TS> I don't see how this belongs in this echo.

 Then get some glasses. PATB is obviously SF. I mean it's got genetic
engineering,

 hi-tech, social commentary, it's all there.

>;[

--- DLG Pro v1.0/DLGMail
 * Origin: Sage's Tower - Amiga - (618) 259-1844 (1:2250/7)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 48 of 154
 From : Leman Russ                          1:2250/7        .óá 25 .àé 96 05:21
 To   : Bob Klahn
 Subj : Re: HIGHLANDER NEWS!
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
OK, maybe it wasn;t you. But there are similar names. And if your board has no
B5 echo you could probably ask your op to hook up the B5 fidonet echo. I don';t
think it costs any more to get it if you have a fido access.

>;[

--- DLG Pro v1.0/DLGMail
 * Origin: Sage's Tower - Amiga - (618) 259-1844 (1:2250/7)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 49 of 154
 From : Jaimie Park                         1:3666/603      .òp 21 .àé 96 19:21
 To   : All
 Subj : x-files
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12  93-0191
did anyone catch the season finale?  if you didn't see the two episodes
"colony" and "end game" then you wouldn't have understood it.  i liked
that us loyal fans were given a little special secret or at least given
an advantage over all of those other watchers of the x-files.  what i
want to know is if jeremiah smith is of the same alien race as all those
clone aliens frrom the two aforementioned episodes.  smith can morph,
just like the hunter, so are they the same race?  if so, then why would
the hunter be after him?  i know the hunter is trying to prevent
colonization but why?  is he only preventing other alien races from
colonizing or is he preventing every alien race, including his own, from
colonizing earth?  why would mulder's dad have the weapon to kill the
hunter and these other aliens?  i know he's part of the project, but why
would he have it and how would his wife know about it?  if she knew
about the weapon then she must know something about samantha.  i
=definately think she is keeping something from mulder.  i guess we'll
never find out what it is if she never regains consciousness.  i am most
certain that jeremiah smith will be killed.  i mean, what would mulder
do with this new information about the project and his sister?  he would
and scully would have to most definately become players in the game.
and if x isn't careful, he's gonna end up getting himself killed.  even
though the season finale raised more questions that answers, like its
suppose to do, i really enjoyed it.  i juts hope that chris carter will
realize that mulder and scully just can't forget everything they've seen
and learned concerning the project, not discuss it further, and go on
with their lives as if nothing happened.

--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12
 * Origin: High Tech Center BBS 21.6K USR/DST  (1:3666/603.0)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 50 of 154
 From : Bob Klahn                           1:234/2         .îí 27 .àé 96 22:38
 To   : Michael Baker
 Subj : FILES
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 -=>> Quoting Bob Klahn to Michael Baker <=-

 MB>> The Dead Zone at Has one of the Largest Sci-FI file areas you've ever

 BK>> Internet address?

 MB>    Bob..ny internet address is krall@one.net

 Thanks, but I meant, does "The Dead Zone" have an internet address?

BOB KLAHN

... Lead me not to temptation, I can find it myself!
 * Silver Xpress V4.3P RB10275

--- FLAME v1.1
 * Origin: Telnet toltbbs.com or call 313-854-6001, Boardwatch #55 (1:234/2)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 51 of 154
 From : Bob Klahn                           1:234/2         .îí 27 .àé 96 22:38
 To   : Kathy Merewether
 Subj : WHITE STAR = THE DEFI
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
LR>> Both ships were designed to fight a specific alien aggressor. The
LR>> defiant w
LR>>built to fight the borg and the Ws was to fight the shadows.

 KM> Wait a second Wait a second It is not the borg but the dominion that the
 KM> defient was built to fight.

 The Defiant was built to fight the Borg, but was diverted to the Dominion
 when "the Borg threat receeded." As they said in the episode in which the
 Defiant made it's first appearance.

LR>> Also, the white star looks an awful lot like a Romulan warbird from TNG.

 KM> I think that the White star looks more like a Vorlon Ship than A Romulan
 KM> Bird of Prey

 I noticed that, and they said, in a later episode, that the White Star uses
 some Vorlon organic technology.

BOB KLAHN

... Objective reality is a mass hallucination.
 * Silver Xpress V4.3P RB10275

--- FLAME v1.1
 * Origin: Telnet toltbbs.com or call 313-854-6001, Boardwatch #55 (1:234/2)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 52 of 154
 From : MARC ZINGARELLI                     1:226/110       .òp 28 .àé 96 08:08
 To   : THE RAVEN
 Subj : CLIFF HANGER?
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Did I miss something?  Is highlander ending the season w/ a cliff
hanger?  If so this sucks!<g>  On the other hand is Joe Dawson dead?
Maybe he's an immortal <bg>.  Now wouldn't that be a hoot.  Not only did
they have an immortal in the watchers and not know it, but one of the
mortal watchers was a pre-immortal.  Nahhhh, never happen.

Later

Marc
---
 þ OLXWin 1.00b þ ... "Bother" said Pooh as he set up a claymore.
 * Origin: The Inner Circle, Pickerington, Oh (614)861-8377 (1:3615/51)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 53 of 154
 From : Bill Clements                       1:18/230        .cê 26 .àé 96 15:51
 To   : Bob Klahn
 Subj : HIGHLANDER NEWS!
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
From the desk of a cynical old man...

Posted 23 May 96 - Bob Klahn to Leman Russ

 BK> Telnet  to TOLTBBS.COM.

Tried this. Got:

  Connecting to TM1
  Sorry, ECHO option MUST be done by this server! Disconnecting

apparently it dosen't like my TELNET client.

If you would, please speakm to your SySop.

--RWC

... "Freedom begins when you tell Mrs. Grundy to go fly a kite." -LL

--- PPoint 2.00 / QWK

--- FLAME v1.1
 * Origin: ANCESTRY TBBS Shadows of forgotten ancestors 941-382-9061 (1:18/230)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 54 of 154
 From : Leman Russ                          1:2250/7        .îí 27 .àé 96 17:14
 To   : Kathy Merewether
 Subj : Re: White star = the defiant
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 Sorry, but I know the defiant was built as a borg fighter. It wasn't finished
in time for the battle at wolf 359 and when it was finished the borg weren't
insight so it was transferredto sisko, who helped design it, to bolster the DS9
sector againstthe dominion.

>;[

--- DLG Pro v1.0/DLGMail
 * Origin: Sage's Tower - Amiga - (618) 259-1844 (1:2250/7)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 55 of 154
 From : Barton Paul Levenson                1:129/26        .îí 27 .àé 96 17:01
 To   : David Johnston
 Subj : Re: Half-Human
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
There's 2'-5' DNA.  There's RNA (over 1,000 varieties known so far).  There's
Leslie Orgel's PNA ("Peptide Nucleic Acid").  And there is an astronomical
number of possible biochemicals that could have filled the same function.  Our
genetic material is universal because we're all descended from the same few
organisms; I expect another planet to have very different biochemicals.

--- Maximus 3.01
 * Origin: SoundingBoard, Pittsburgh PA (1:129/26)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 56 of 154
 From : Paul Worley                         1:2601/515      .cê 26 .àé 96 23:21
 To   : Michael Baker
 Subj : Files
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Hello Michael!

25 May 96 07:55, Michael Baker wrote to Paul Worley:

 PW>> Would you happen to have anything relating to either Roddy
 PW>> McDowell or Planet of the Apes????

 MB>     Paul........... No not at this time, but you've got me
 MB> looking now!!!  I'll let ya know when I grab some stuff.

Thanks!

Paul

--- GoldED 2.42.G0614
 * Origin: USS Wolf - Wheatland, PA  (1:2601/515)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 57 of 154
 From : Eric Fishbein                       1:322/360       .îí 27 .àé 96 00:51
 To   : Bob Klahn
 Subj : INCONSISTENT SHADOWS.
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 >BK>>  was no significant improvement in shadow tech in 1000 years is a good
 >BK>>  question, but also a possible explanation to much that happens. Could
 >BK>> be the shadows have stultified technologically.
 >
 >TS> The general impression (in the B5 area) is that perhaps they've reached
 >TS> their limit of development, and have plateau'd out.  Nothing will
 >TS> change unless and until something happens in a drastic fashion,
 >TS> evolutionaryily (is that a word?> speaking.
 >
 >  That is about how I see it.
 >
 > BOB KLAHN

        Um, correct me if I'm wrong, but the Shadows are one of the "Endless"
aren't they?  So to them, 1000 years isn't very long at all, and since they have
all the time they need, they can progress at what seems like an infantesimally
small rate to you and me.

--- FLAME v1.0/b
 * Origin: Add TSX-BBS, The Swiss Army Knife For TBBS! 508.429.8385 (1:322/360)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 58 of 154
 From : Frank Glover                        1:2613/477      .îí 27 .àé 96 17:39
 To   : Bob Klahn
 Subj : Re: DR. WHO
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

BK>   GN>> The prime powersourse for the time lords
BK>   GN>> is a great black hole in the center of the planet.
BK>
BK>   DL>         That sucks...
BK>
BK>   Bet a lot of people miss the joke.

   I groaned because it's one of the *oldest* where black holes are
concerned....

   Frank


--- QuickBBS 2.80 GoldBase (Zeta-1.9A)
 * Origin: The Matrix Data Bank BBS, Rochester, Ny (1:2613/477)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 59 of 154
 From : Frank Glover                        1:2613/477      .îí 27 .àé 96 17:46
 To   : Kathy Merewether
 Subj : Re: White star = the defiant
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

KM>  LR> Both ships were designed to fight a specific alien aggressor. The
KM>  defiant w
KM>  LR>built to fight the borg and the Ws was to fight the shadows.
KM>
KM>
KM>  Wait a second Wait a second It is not the borg but the dominion that
KM>  the
KM>  defient was built to fight.

   No, he's right. While it has been presed into service to defend DS9 and the
wormhole from the Dominion and other gamma quadrant threats, it was made clear
that the Defiant was a prototype of a class of ship (the only one Starfleet
admits is primairily a warship) meant to deal with Borg attacks.

   The Enterprise-D found long ago that the Borg ships were so redundant, that
you'd have to destroy something like 80% of one, very quickly, to consider it
put out of comission. Massed attack by Defiant-class ships, which are basically
lots of guns and propulsion with a crew squeezed in there *should* do the job,
at least on a tactical level. Grand strategy is something else.....

   But remembering how quickly the Gem'haddar destroyed the Galaxy-class USS
Odyssey, the same sort of ship would seem to have its place here, too.

   Frank


--- QuickBBS 2.80 GoldBase (Zeta-1.9A)
 * Origin: The Matrix Data Bank BBS, Rochester, Ny (1:2613/477)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 60 of 154
 From : Kay Shapero                         1:102/524       .òp 28 .àé 96 16:43
 To   : Frank Glover
 Subj : SFFAN discussion
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <May 26 18:44>, Frank Glover (1:2613/477) wrote to Kay Shapero:

KS>  TV related echoes are mostly limited to specific shows like BABYLON5,
KS>  or the various Star Trek echoes.
 FG>
 FG>   Yep. That's why I like it here....
 FG>

Well, stretch out and stay a spell...  I kinda like this myself - when the
conversation wanders from Babylon 5 to Doctor Who then takes a quick turn
through _Steel Beach_, it's nice to be in a place where you can just keep
talking.  Sorta like an on-line con suite.

So, what are you reading and watching lately?  I'm about halfway through Will
Shetterly's _Elsewhere_ at the moment.  Reminds me of my college days with a
batch of elves thrown in.  I do wonder when he's going to do something
interesting with the magic works sorta/tech works sorta milleau though - thus
far with only minor modifications the entire story could have been told in the
real world.  Well, Berkeley, anyway. :->

As for TV shows, about the only thing I watch with any regularity is Babylon 5,
and it's in reruns for the next few months :(.  Ah well, all that nailbiting
about whether it gets renewed keeps my fingernails short enough for guitar
playing, so there's a use for *everything.*  Also maybe this means my
imagination will let me get back to work on my own worlds instead of figuring
out what JMS is up to.

(Or to figuring out some of the latest plot twists in the local Other Suns
campaign.  Something that happened 15 real years ago may be about to return to
importance.  And since I'm the only player involved from that time period, my
character may get the fun of having to explain something that makes the most
recent plot twists in B5 look tame.  Nothing like time travel to tie you up in
knots.)


--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 61 of 154
 From : Gerry Normandeau                    1:163/430       .pä 29 .àé 96 01:53
 To   : Bob Klahn
 Subj : Dr. Who
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Standing at the gallows pole Bob Klahn spat a curse on David Little, accusing
him of DR. WHO!

 GN>> The prime powersourse for the time lords
 GN>> is a great black hole in the center of the planet.

 DL>         That sucks...

 BK> Bet a lot of people miss the joke.

 BK> BOB KLAHN

More than likley they just ignored it, to save their brain cells. :)

                        Nexis@Offsprng.Takeone.com
                  Gerry.Normandeau@Offsprng.Takeone.com
                         cn754@Carlton.Freenet.ca

... GM's Truth: "Some days Lady Luck turns and bites you on the butt."

___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20 [NR]

--- Maximus 2.01wb
 * Origin: Watership Down BBS, Kanata , ON (1:163/430)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 62 of 154
 From : Leman Russ                          1:2250/7        .îí 27 .àé 96 21:31
 To   : All
 Subj : outer limits
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 Is it just me, or is ebveryone disappointed with showtimes outerlimits? By and
large I think it's a poor imitation ofthe original.

>;[

--- DLG Pro v1.0/DLGMail
 * Origin: Sage's Tower - Amiga - (618) 259-1844 (1:2250/7)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 63 of 154
 From : Leman Russ                          1:2250/7        .îí 27 .àé 96 21:32
 To   : All
 Subj : The sf channel
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 Despite lieing about it for years my local cable monopoly has never gottn the
SF channel and all I've seen of it are bits on Intro. All they show are old 70's
series, most of which sucked and still do.

 Does anyone here have the sf channel? If so does it do anything but show old
shows? Does it have Japanimation? Original programming? whatever?

>;[

--- DLG Pro v1.0/DLGMail
 * Origin: Sage's Tower - Amiga - (618) 259-1844 (1:2250/7)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 64 of 154
 From : Paul Goverts                        1:2613/135      .òp 28 .àé 96 17:55
 To   : Kathy Merewether
 Subj : White star = the defiant
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 -=> Quoting Kathy Merewether to Mhs:leman Russ <=-

 LR> Both ships were designed to fight a specific alien aggressor. The defiant w
 LR>built to fight the borg and the Ws was to fight the shadows.

 KM> Wait a second Wait a second It is not the borg but the dominion that
 KM> the defient was built to fight.

Actually, the Defiant was built originally after the encounter with the
borg, but sisko was able to re-assign it to be used against the
dominion.  It was originally a borg-battler.

Paul

... Two betazoids walk into a bar. One says I'll have the same!
___ Blue Wave/DOS v2.30

--- PCBoard (R) v15.21/M 10
 * Origin: Wise BBS - Irondequoit, NY (1:2613/135)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 65 of 154
 From : Tommy Kellerman                     2:205/356       .îí 27 .àé 96 19:25
 To   : Peter Tam
 Subj : Alien 4
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
In a message of 23-Mar-96 17:11:56, wrote Peter Tam:

 TK> Does somebody know anything about Alien 4?

 PT> Script by Joss Whedon..who did uncredited work on "Speed" and "Waterworld"
 PT> Ripley is revived through cloning!?  Winona Ryder RUMOURED costar.
 PT> Nuthin' more than that...oh yeah a wonky title "Alien Resurrection"...feh

OK. Thanks for sharing.


/// -Tommy K.- \\\

--- Xenolink 1.981, XEmacs 1.2
 * Origin: No Limit, MoraNet on tour                              (2:205/356)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 66 of 154
 From : David Johnston                      1:342/14        .pä 29 .àé 96 01:08
 To   : Kathy Merewether
 Subj : White Star = The Defiant
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
-> LR> Both ships were designed to fight a specific alien aggressor. The
-> defiant w LR>built to fight the borg and the Ws was to fight the
-> shadows.
->
-> Wait a second Wait a second It is not the borg but the dominion that
-> the defient was built to fight.

Nope.  The Defiant was built to fight the Borg, Sisko's pet anti-Borg
project while he at the Olympus Shipyard.  It was just never actually
used against them.

--- PCBoard (R) v15.21/100
 * Origin: Freddy's Place - Edm. AB - 33.6K (403) 413-3460 (1:342/14)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 67 of 154
 From : Frank Glover                        1:2613/477      .ÿò 31 .àé 96 22:35
 To   : John A. Leopard
 Subj : Re: Half-Human
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

JA>  BL> By the way, creating alien-human hybrids by selective
JA>  combinations of DNA
JA>  BL> sections assumes the aliens use DNA for genetic material, which
JA>  may or may
JA>  BL> not be the case.
JA>
JA>          That is correct, however I bet that almost all life in the
JA>  universe will have something very similiar to DNA.

   Yes. Remember the delight the researchers studying E.T. (the
Extra-Terrestrial) had when learning this? ("He's got DNA!") He probably
expected it, but was pleased to be vindicated, nevertheless.

   And I'd be inclined to expect it, too.

   Frank


--- QuickBBS 2.80 GoldBase (Zeta-1.9A)
 * Origin: The Matrix Data Bank BBS, Rochester, Ny (1:2613/477)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 68 of 154
 From : Todd Sullivan                       1:202/720.3     .åò 30 .àé 96 17:29
 To   : Leman Russ
 Subj : outer limits
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Reports from the Interior indicate that Leman Russ leaked the following to All,
re: outer limits

 LR>  Is it just me, or is ebveryone disappointed with showtimes
 LR> outerlimits? By and large I think it's a poor imitation ofthe original.

I have to disagree.  TOL, both versions, went farther than either version of The
Twilight Zone, IMO, and have a strong pulse of horror running through them.

Todd Sullivan

... Don't sweat the petty things, just pet the sweaty things...

-*- ASTG 1.9

--- Spot 1.3a Unregistered
 * Origin: Todd's Spot in the Continuum (1:202/720.3)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 69 of 154
 From : Frank Swarbrick                     1:104/825       .åò 30 .àé 96 21:47
 To   : Leman Russ
 Subj : The sf channel
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12  92-0022
On 05-27-96  21:32 Leman Russ, the heir to the kingdom of idiots, said:

 LR> Despite lieing about it for years my local cable monopoly has never
 LR> gottn the SF channel and all I've seen of it are bits on Intro. All
 LR> they show are old 70's series, most of which sucked and still do.

 LR> Does anyone here have the sf channel? If so does it do anything but
 LR> show old shows? Does it have Japanimation? Original programming?
 LR> whatever? >;[

I have had it for a few months.  Daily programming consists of the
following (Mountain Time, where I live)...

 5:00am - Lazer Patrol
 5:30am - Droids
 6:00am - Galaxy High School
 6:30am - Transformers
 7:00am - Lost In Space
 8:00am - Beauty and the Beast
 9:00am - Dark Shadows
 9:30am - Dark Shadows
10:00am - Moonbase Three
11:00am - Alfred Hitchcock Presents
11:30am - Tales From The Darkside
12:00pm - Night Gallery
12:30pm - Ray Bradbury Theater
 1:00pm - Buck Rogers in the 25th Century
 2:00pm - The Incredible Hulk
 3:00pm - The Bionic Woman
 4:00pm - The Six Million Dollar Man
 5:00pm - The Twilight Zone
 5:30pm - Monsters
 6:00pm - Quantum Leap
 7:00pm - "SciFi Series Collection" **See note
 8:00pm - Friday the 13th: The Series
 9pm-1 : repeat of 5-9pm series

**The "SciFi Series Collection" is different short lived series.  In
the past few months there's been The Fantastic Journey, Planet Of The
Apes, and currently they're showing Something Is Out There.

Other shows that are weekly, rather than daily, are Forever Knight
(Mondays) and Kolchak: The Night Stalker (Fridays).  Fridays also has
a few "original" programs like C/Net Central, SciFi Buzz and Inside
Space.

Saturday has a lot of movies, as well as The Odyssey, My Secret
Identity, Dracula: The Series, Swamp Thing, and Thriller (I must make
a note to watch that one!).

Sunday has movies as well as Space: 1999, Starman, UFO, Alien Nation,
and War Of The Worlds.

There are occasional original movies, but mostly they're just older
ones.

Anyway, I don't watch it all that much, but looking in detail at what
I just posted there are a few things I'd like to see.

As I said, Something Is Out There is currently airing.  It was a
mini-series and then short lived series (kinda like "V") back in 1988.
I'm rather enjoying it.  Planet Of The Apes was pretty good as well.
The Fantastic Voyage, well, sucked.  I'm interested to see what
they'll show after SIOT is over.  I know they were showing Max
Headroom, but I don't know what other shows they have lined up.

        Frank

... The avalanche has begun.  It is too late for the pebbles to vote.
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12
 * Origin: The Bailey Information Exchange BBS, 28.8k v.fc  (1:104/825.0)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 70 of 154
 From : Lis Carey                           1:101/230       .åò 30 .àé 96 07:20
 To   : Kathy Merewether
 Subj : WHITE STAR = THE DEFIANT
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
KM>LR> Both ships are extremely small compared to normal ships oftheir respecti
KM>LR>forces.

KM>LR> Both ships are highly advanced and powerful warships that can defeat muc
KM>LR>larger opponents.

KM>LR> Both ships were designed to fight a specific alien aggressor. The defian
KM>LR>built to fight the borg and the Ws was to fight the shadows.


KM>Wait a second Wait a second It is not the borg but the dominion that the
KM>defient was built to fight.

Wrong. The Defiant was an experimental design intended to fight the
Borg. The prototype of that design, the Defiant itself, had some
problems, and got mothballed when the problems became apparent and the
immediate threat of the Borg had evaporated, anyway.

Then when Sisko demanded a ship on-station because of the threat of the
Dominion, Starfleet, still short of ships due to the losses at Wolf 359,
pulled the Defiant out of mothballs and gave him that.

 * OLX 2.1 TD * All hope abandon, ye who enter messages here.

--- FLAME v1.0
 * Origin: Withouta Net - Drop In Anytime! - 617/846-5416 (1:101/230)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 71 of 154
 From : Mark Jones                          1:105/302.47    .åò 30 .àé 96 22:17
 To   : Bob Ziesmer
 Subj : White star = the defiant
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On (22 May 96) Bob Ziesmer wrote to Leman Russ...

 BZ> > I thin kthe white star from B5 is a blatant ripoff ofthe
 BZ> > Deifant from DS9. Look at the facts:

To which you responded:

 BZ> A rip off! Come on. While there are similar setups for the ships
 BZ> existence. The fact is well known that ST borrows from several
 BZ> other scifi genera for many story lines. The White Star is a
 BZ> living ship, part vorlon technology. The defiant is simply a
 BZ> federation ship with a cloaking device. If you look at starships
 BZ> in ST the size of the ship is for long duration missions.

There are other differences, as well.

The White Star was specifically built and handed to Sheridan because
it was the cutting edge of Minbari/Vorlon technology.  The Defiant
wound up in Sisko's hands because the Federation considered it a
FAILURE.  "Overgunned and overpowered..." (If not *the* stupidest
words ever spoken in Star Trek, they're in the top ten.  It was
designed to be a warship--massive firepower and the powerplant to fire
them all *and* run at top speed is the IDEAL.)


--- PPoint 1.78
 * Origin: Folcroft Sanitarium (hsmith@cure.com) (1:105/302.47)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 72 of 154
 From : Mark Jones                          1:105/302.47    .åò 30 .àé 96 22:25
 To   : Tony Sayger
 Subj : PINKY AND THE BRAIN
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On (23 May 96) Tony Sayger wrote to Leman Russ...

 RP> The fall schedule for the WB network was in USA Today, and does
 RP> not include Pinky and the Brain!

 TS> I don't see how this belongs in this echo.

  What, you don't think gene-spliced lab mice plotting to overthrow
the earth count as science fiction?  What about the vast array of
super-scientific (not to mention PSEUDO-scientific) schemes Brain
employs in his relentless quest for world domination?


--- PPoint 1.78
 * Origin: Folcroft Sanitarium (hsmith@cure.com) (1:105/302.47)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 73 of 154
 From : Mark Jones                          1:105/302.47    .åò 30 .àé 96 22:32
 To   : Frank Swarbrick
 Subj : SF on TV
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On (24 May 96) Frank Swarbrick wrote to All...

 FS> My message is not specifically about Doctor Who, but about science
 FS> fiction on TV in general.  Why, except for Star Trek, and now the
 FS> X-Files, does SF seem to do so poorly on TV, yet so well (seemingly)
 FS> in movie theaters?  I mean look at the top three grossing movies of
 FS> all time.  If I'm not mistaken these are E.T., Jurassic Park, and Star
 FS> Wars (or maybe one of the sequels).  There are plenty of blockbuster
 FS> SF movies (witness the hype over Independance Day, and it still has
 FS> over a month before anyone even sees it!), so why don't these same
 FS> people watch it on TV?

Perhaps part of the problem is that a large part of the numbers for
some successful films is repeat viewings by hard-core fans.  For
instance, I saw STAR WARS eleven times over the course of its initial
release back in '77.  And I was hardly unique.  Most of the SF fans I
knew at the time (and have talked to since) did likewise.  (And, of
course, I watched it many times since on video, too.)

Television SF series may have hard-core followings, too--but they
can't watch the episodes over and over and over.  Well, they can--but
those repeat viewings don't get counted by the ratings folks.  And the
intensity of feeling by the fans means little or nothing to the bean
counters.

I suspect, also, that we're suffering from "Media Bias Syndrome" here.
 If you analyzed the failure rates for other genres--westerns, cop
shows, lawyer shows, doctor shows, sitcoms, etc.--I think you'd find
that the vast majority of *those* (good, bad and indifferent) get the
axe just as reliably as most SF series.


--- PPoint 1.78
 * Origin: Folcroft Sanitarium (hsmith@cure.com) (1:105/302.47)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 74 of 154
 From : Brion Lienhart                      1:213/700.2     .ÿò 31 .àé 96 08:50
 To   : Lawrence E Dunlap
 Subj : Re: STARSHIP TROOPERS
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On Tue May 28, Lawrence E Dunlap said to Bill Warren:
*Spoiler for Red Planet (if anybody still cares)*


















 -LED>    Ginny was pleased with the ultimate outcome of *Red Planet* but
 -LED>had fought a fight to get that done right. Perhaps your fears now seem
 -LED>less intense in light of this information?

Not particularly. _I_ wasn't pleased with the changes in RP. I applauded the
decision to place it on Beta Aries instead of Mars, but that's about all. I
didn't like the complete disapperance of the independance plot. I really hated
Willis as the mighty morphin power puppy or whatever the hell he was supposed to
be. The pollution caused by evil aliens bit really pissed me off. The only part
I really cared for in the third episode is the last little bit with Willis as a
grownup. Where did those stupid hunter robots and sand beasts come from?





--- QM v1.31
 * Origin: Ministry of Peace - Carson City, NV (1:213/700.2)

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 Msg  : 75 of 154
 From : David Johnston                      1:342/14        .ÿò 31 .àé 96 00:46
 To   : Frank Glover
 Subj : Re: Inconsistent Shadows.
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
-> EF>          Um, correct me if I'm wrong, but the Shadows are one of
-> the EF>  "Endless" aren't they?  So to them, 1000 years isn't very
-> long at EF>  all, and since they have all the time they need, they
-> can progress at EF>  what seems like an infantesimally small rate to
-> you and me.
-> Which gurantees that any adversary whose rate of development is only
-> a little better than theirs will overtake them, and possibly
-> overwhelm them....

Except of course that everyone eventually reaches the level where they
wander off in a haze of cosmic awareness, or just wuffle themselves to
death.

There are some considerations though:
   1.  It is apparent that after a certain point (for the purposes of
this series) all species begin to level off their technological advance
as they lose "youthful vigor"
   2.  The Shadows make sure to make allies and do what they can to
infiltrate all potential enemies before making their moves.
   3.  The Shadows have repeatedly been overwhelmed and respond by
hiding until the victors go away.  Then they try again.  Space is big.
Real big.  You can lose your carkeys, or yourself in it, particularly if
you know how to hibernate.
   4.  Truly advanced cultures lose their enthusiasm for dirty work such
as Shadow-wacking.
   5.  The Shadows are a metaphysical threat more than a technological
one.  They don't invent so much as absorb, adapt and corrupt.

--- PCBoard (R) v15.21/100
 * Origin: Freddy's Place - Edm. AB - 33.6K (403) 413-3460 (1:342/14)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 76 of 154
 From : Scott Royall                        1:106/357       .ÿò 31 .àé 96 16:52
 To   : Earl Green
 Subj : EEP!  EEP!  EEEEEEP!
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Earl,

Thursday May 30 1996 21:54, Earl Green wrote to All:

 EG> BABYLON 5 HAS BEEN RENEWED FOR A FOURTH SEASON!

Not yet.  The Lurker web page was incorrect.

Scott

sroyal@accesscomm.net
royall@shellus.com
FAX: 713-556-5464

--- GoldED/2 2.50+
 * Origin:  scott.royall@conch.cld9.com  713-556-5464  (1:106/357)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 77 of 154
 From : Joey Haven                          1:3654/5        .åò 06 .þí 96 02:45
 To   : Frank Swarbrick
 Subj : Re: Nowhere Man season fi
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: FastEcho 1.45a 7602

 FS> Yeah, I saw that.  Bummer.  And neither was Space: Above and Beyond,

                                                 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

 FS> another show that was just starting to get really good.  Argh!

     Another victim of poor programming. Putting *any* new show up
     against popular, well-liked shows like Mad About You is suicide.
     At least that's how the network treated that show here. After
     failing on Sunday it move at least 4 or 5 times. Too bad, I liked
     what I saw but, working nights I can only tape one show at a time
     and that one lost.

     îJoeyï


... BUFFERS=20 FILES=15 2nd down, 4th quarter, 5 yards to go!
---
 * Origin: Programmers Paragon - Greensboro, NC (1:3654/5)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 78 of 154
 From : Frank Glover                        1:2613/477      .pä 05 .þí 96 22:35
 To   : Nicolai Shapero
 Subj : Re: WHITE STAR = THE DEFI
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

NS>  The Dominion seems to have gone with the "nibbled to death by ducks"
NS>  approach to combat.  The Jem'Hadar ships look small in comparison
NS>  with a Galaxy class starship, and they might not have the "staying
NS>  power" (ability to fight for prolonged periods away from a base of
NS>  operation), but the Dominion appears to have a LOT of the little
NS>  buggers...

   Combined with a willingness to do kamakaze attacks, if so required or
inclined....

   Frank


--- QuickBBS 2.80 GoldBase (Zeta-1.9A)
 * Origin: The Matrix Data Bank BBS, Rochester, Ny (1:2613/477)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 79 of 154
 From : Casey                               1:2624/610      .åò 06 .þí 96 00:01
 To   : Joey Haven
 Subj : outer limits
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: FastEcho 1.45a 8217
While lurking about unseen, Joey Haven spake thusly to Kay Shapero:

 KS> They did a decent job with their adaptation of Larry Niven's
 KS> "Inconstant Moon", but otherwise I haven't been too impressed with it
 KS> myself.  Sigh...

 can anyone tell me when TOL aires in the NY area, and what channel it
 would be found on?
 Ken

... Sleep is an inadequate substitute for caffeine.         ^
--- Blue Wave/RA v2.20 [NR]
 * Origin: The World's End BBS 914-298-0158 (1:2624/610)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 80 of 154
 From : Bill Clements                       1:18/230        .pä 05 .þí 96 12:51
 To   : Lawrence E Dunlap
 Subj : ROBERT A. HEINLEIN
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
From the desk of a cynical old man...

Posted 02 Jun 96 - Lawrence E Dunlap to Kay Shapero

 LE>     Did RAH ever write a ST:TOS script that was actually produced and
 LE> aired? I saw two TOS eps written by "Robert A. Heinemann" and have
 LE> wondered if this was a *nom de plume* for RAH even thogh I later
 LE> realized *Star Trek* was somewhat off-center as a SF show from RAH's
 LE> core values to psuedonym a script in additional consideration to his
 LE> declining lucidity during those days.

Heinlein was a self admitted commercial author who is reported to
have written under as many as 100 pseudonyms.

For a number of years I have wished to examine the above
mentioned work. Does anyone have access to the list of pseudonyms
used by RAH?


--RWC

... "Climate is what we expect, weather is what we get." --LL

--- PPoint 2.00 / QWK

--- FLAME v1.1
 * Origin: ANCESTRY TBBS Shadows of forgotten ancestors 941-382-9061 (1:18/230)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 81 of 154
 From : Ken Mayes                           1:393/7         .åò 06 .þí 96 09:45
 To   : Glenn Misztal
 Subj : Re: Star Trek Resurrections...
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
        Sure I'd like to take a gander at it.



--- CNet/3
 * Origin: The Bard's Tavern Denton, TX (817)243-5110 USR 28.8   (1:393/7)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 82 of 154
 From : Leman Russ                          1:2250/7        .îí 03 .þí 96 05:38
 To   : Kay Shapero
 Subj : Re: ?
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 KS> There's also a FIDO B5 echo you may find of interest.

 Too bad it's ran by a little **)(**&)(*&!!! who thinks he's a cross between god
and hitler...

>:{

--- DLG Pro v1.0/DLGMail
 * Origin: Sage's Tower - Amiga - (618) 259-1844 (1:2250/7)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 83 of 154
 From : Leman Russ                          1:2250/7        .îí 03 .þí 96 05:39
 To   : Bill Warren
 Subj : Re: STARSHIP TROOPERS
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 BW> I recently reread the novel, and was surprised at how little action
 BW> there is in it; it's mostly a vehicle for Heinlein's political views

 Yes, I noticed that about Heinlein too. His later works degenerating into
rambling intolerance. I reads the cat whpo walks thru walls, was sickened by it
and have not read and heinlein since.

>:[

--- DLG Pro v1.0/DLGMail
 * Origin: Sage's Tower - Amiga - (618) 259-1844 (1:2250/7)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 84 of 154
 From : Leman Russ                          1:2250/7        .îí 03 .þí 96 05:41
 To   : Nicolai Shapero
 Subj : Re: White star = the defiant
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 The borg DID adapt their barrier to block transporters, so data and woof had
totake a shuttle to get picard back, remember?

 My way risks no lives, and the borg don't knowwhat hit them.

 I remember the ep "Obsession" too. 1 ounce of antimatter, reacting with one
ounce of matter, results in a 2 megaton energy release, thereabouts, according
to most scientific rules of thumb.

>:[

--- DLG Pro v1.0/DLGMail
 * Origin: Sage's Tower - Amiga - (618) 259-1844 (1:2250/7)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 85 of 154
 From : Nicolai Shapero                     1:102/524       .pä 05 .þí 96 06:23
 To   : Bob Klahn
 Subj : INCONSISTENT SHADOWS.
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Jun 03 13:51>, Bob Klahn (1:234/2) wrote to Nicolai Shapero:

 BK> means. I find it hard to believe in the Mimbarii not advancing
 BK>significantly
 BK> in a thousand years. I can't believe at all that a sentient
 BK>species could
 BK> survive a million years and not be far advanced beyond anything
 BK>we can
 BK> imagine.

I can easily imagine a culture going in to stasis for a thousand years (its
happened on Earth).  But I'd agree that after a million years or so I'd expect
SOMETHING to crack the shell...

-- Nicolai Shapero, the Mad Russian Sysop of StormGate Aerie

--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 86 of 154
 From : Kay Shapero                         1:102/524       .pä 05 .þí 96 11:30
 To   : Christopher Lee
 Subj : Space Above & Beyond
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Jun 04 16:54>, Christopher Lee (1:387/31.50) wrote to Kay Shapero:

 CL>On (02 Jun 96) Kay Shapero wrote to All...

KS>Spoiler for the last ever S:AAB episode.


















 CL> That was no mistake on the Suit's part.  He was deliberately
 CL>trying to provoke the Chig, in order to discredit what "It" was saying.

Which, unless he really *wanted* to get himself and everybody in the room killed
and bust up the peace talks completely, was indeed a mistake.  What a pity
nobody tackled him before hand...

--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 87 of 154
 From : Kay Shapero                         1:102/524       .pä 05 .þí 96 11:32
 To   : Henry Triplett
 Subj : SFFAN discussion
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Jun 03 12:27>, Henry Triplett (1:106/564) wrote to KAY SHAPERO:

 HT>What makes you think that it's *not* Wakko and Zakko running the
 HT>place? <g>
 HT>Looks like some of their work to me.

Nope, they have more sense than that.  :->

Speaking of the Warners, imagine the fun if they were to visit Babylon 5
themselves.  :->  Popping up in C&C at odd moments (making them odder),
mistaking a Vorlon encounter suit for a refrigerator and checking to see if the
light goes out when you shut the door, turning up in Londo's suite as
exterminators, making Morden and his buddies their "Special Friends"...

Y'know, I'd really love to see an Animaniacs B5 parody!  Wonder if Warners'll
ever do one.

... "Who ARE you!!!" "I'm Yakko!"  "I'm Wakko!"  "And I'm CUTE!"


--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 88 of 154
 From : Henry Triplett                      1:106/564       .åò 06 .þí 96 12:06
 To   : FRANK SWARBRICK
 Subj : cancelled
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

-=> Quoting Frank Swarbrick to All <=-

 FS> (No, I'm not saying B5 is cancelled.)

Thank Great Maker!

 FS> I saw an interesting note in the paper today.  It was recently
 FS> announced that Nowhere Man was not renewed.  Touchstone Television
 FS> (the production studio) says they have received upwards to 10,000
 FS> e-mail messages in the last eight days protesting it!  Not that it
 FS> will help, but it's still cool to note.  Just think what would happen
 FS> if Babylon 5 was cancelled!  I don't think WB dare even think about
 FS> it!  :-)

Do you have an e-mail address for Touchstone?  Or even better, a snail
mail address.  The wife and I enjoyed Nowhere Man, I think it was the only
show on UPN worth watching.

Henry



... "Tom Veil?  Mulder, FBI!  We need to talk!"

___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20 [NR]
--- GEcho 1.00
 * Origin: Eat Flaming Death    Houston Texas    713-447-1927 (1:106/564)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 89 of 154
 From : Henry Triplett                      1:106/564       .åò 06 .þí 96 13:27
 To   : GLENN MISZTAL
 Subj : Lois and Clark
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

-=> Quoting Glenn Misztal to All <=-

 GM> S
 GM> P
 GM> O
 GM> I
 GM> L
 GM> E
 GM> R
 GM> S
 GM> !
 GM> !
 GM> _
 GM> Did anyone watch Lois and Clark get "married" last night? Well, Clark
 GM> married a  *CLONE* of Lois! I for one am sick and tired of shocker
 GM> plot-lines like this...  Lois and Clark have just broken off their
 GM> engagement in the comics and Clark is  started to date a Mermaid...(No
 GM> lie! Her name is Lori Lemaris 'L.L.' -  typical.) Seeing Mulder blown
 GM> up, was enough, but this season shocker is really  bad....

A mermaid?!?  That's a new one! (I think.)

 GM> Why can't Lois and Clark just get married and get on with life? Hey,

Unfortunately, that comes with reading or watching Superman in any format.
I don't know how many times I'd seen Clark/Superman and Lois get 'married'
in alternate universes, alternate timelimes, alternate Earths, etc.  Every-
where but in the 'real' universe.  You either get used to it, or become
cynical and leave. <sigh>  BTW, I think I saw this episode some months
back.  I didn't want any part of it, but my wife is a fan.

 GM> it worked  with a couple of the X-men and I don't even *READ* Marvel
 GM> comics... On a brighter note...if you read any DC comics...mail me....
 GM> - Glenn

Matter of fact, Spiderman (Peter Parker) has been married to Mary Jane
(Watson?) for about ten years now.  Go figure.

Henry

... "Well. That could've gone better." --Vir

___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20 [NR]
--- GEcho 1.00
 * Origin: Eat Flaming Death    Houston Texas    713-447-1927 (1:106/564)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 90 of 154
 From : Brion Lienhart                      1:213/700.2     .pä 05 .þí 96 08:35
 To   : Kay Shapero
 Subj : Beautiful vampires
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On Mon Jun 03, Kay Shapero said to Brion Lienhart:

 BL>show. Did you see Weird Science last night? Lisa turned them all
 BL>into Vampires, because Vampires are so cool. Of course the
 BL>blood-sucking part is yucky, so she substituted a craving for
 BL>Yoohoo.

 -KS>ROFL!  Oh heavens - I'm sorry I missed THAT one!

I'm sorry you missed it too. We get to see Chet and Principal Scampi (sp?) team
up in this one. Gary found the only drawback to hypnotizing women was soggy
shoulders.



--- QM v1.31
 * Origin: Ministry of Peace - Carson City, NV (1:213/700.2)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 91 of 154
 From : Frank Swarbrick                     1:104/825       .pä 05 .þí 96 00:08
 To   : Leman Russ
 Subj : Re: The sf channel
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12  92-0022
On 06-02-96  04:33 Leman Russ, the heir to the kingdom of idiots, said:

 LR> Sounds like I'm not missing a lot, unfortunantely. I was hoping for
 LR> japanese animation and some SF fhan shows, like an intelligent talk
 LR> show or such.
 >;[

There are a few fan shows.  Sci-Fi Buzz is kind of a talk show.  Has
snippets of various SF things.  I don't watch it much so I can't
really elaborate.  But you're right, most of the shows aren't that
great.  Still, it's worthwhile having for some things.  They recently
had a four hour special version of The Abyss with, I guess, extra
footage and other stuff.  I recorded it but I haven't watched it yet
(who has four hours to spare at one time!).

        Frank

... Did I mention we're federal agents?
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12
 * Origin: The Bailey Information Exchange BBS, 28.8k v.fc  (1:104/825.0)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 92 of 154
 From : Frank Swarbrick                     1:104/825       .pä 05 .þí 96 07:54
 To   : Vicki Nichols
 Subj : Forever Knight
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12  92-0022
On 06-02-96  20:07 Vicki Nichols, the heir to the kingdom of idiots, said:

 VN> Well, as a staunch science fiction fan ever since I could read,
 VN> I'm a little embarrassed to bring THIS one up as it isn't strictly
 VN> science fiction...but does/did anyone else out there watch "Forever
 VN> Knight"?

Yes!  Did you see "Last Knight," the series finale?  A lot of fans
hated it (for obvious reasons), but I loved it and thought it was a
fitting, if premature, end to a fine series.  I can't wait until the
SciFi Channel starts showing season one repeats (sometime in 1997 I
hear).  I've seen all of the second and third seasons, but none of the
first.

        Frank

... How much does it cost to get your soul dry cleaned these days?
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12
 * Origin: The Bailey Information Exchange BBS, 28.8k v.fc  (1:104/825.0)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 93 of 154
 From : Frank Swarbrick                     1:104/825       .pä 05 .þí 96 23:21
 To   : Kay Shapero
 Subj : Space Above & Beyond
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12  92-0022
On 06-02-96  19:50 Kay Shapero, the heir to the kingdom of idiots, said:

 KS> Spoiler for the last ever S:AAB episode.


















 KS> Whoof!  I guess they DID get the word about cancellation before they
 KS> filmed that one...  And what a title "Tell our moms we did our best".
 KS> Ouch.
 KS> Not to mention the possible tweak of the producerial noses when it's
 KS> mostly the mistake of a suit that gets everybody blown to bits.  Bye
 KS> Wildcards -  it was fun watching.

Oh, I don't think they knew about it.  Wang seems to be most
definately dead, but Vansen and Damphouse are definately iffy.

It's really quite a bummer, though.  The show was just now getting
interesting.

        Frank

... ALL DONE - BYE BYE!
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12
 * Origin: The Bailey Information Exchange BBS, 28.8k v.fc  (1:104/825.0)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 94 of 154
 From : James Walton                        1:129/260       .åò 06 .þí 96 22:58
 To   : Don Dellmann
 Subj : The state of Chalker
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 DD> I enjoy Chalker, even though he does seem to have one rather
 DD> "kinky fetish" that runs through a lot of his work (Chalker
 DD> fans will know what I mean).

That "kinky fetish" is what Chalker calls his "trademark."

 DD> I especially enjoyed the "Changewind" stories, "The Devil
 DD> Will Drag You Under", "Downtiming The Night Side" and the
 DD> "G.O.D. Inc." stories, although he will always best be
 DD> remembered for the "Well of Souls" stories (and the "Four
 DD> Lords Of The Diamond" aren't too bad either).

Except for the addition of the "Dancing gods" series, I have noting to add or
argue with.

---
 * Origin: Up in James' Attic, (412)-431-2891,  (1:129/260)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 95 of 154
 From : Bob Klahn                           1:234/2         .åò 06 .þí 96 21:52
 To   : Frank Swarbrick
 Subj : NOWHERE MAN SEASON FI
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 FS> On 05-31-96  09:48 Bill Warren, the heir to the kingdom of idiots, said:

 BW>> NOWHERE MAN was not renewed.

 FS> Yeah, I saw that.  Bummer.  And neither was Space: Above and Beyond,
 FS> another show that was just starting to get really good.  Argh!

 Please excuse my frown, I am very displeased. SAAB was very good. IMNSHO.

BOB KLAHN

... If marriage is outlawed, only outlaws will have in-laws.
 * Silver Xpress V4.3P RB10275

--- FLAME v1.1
 * Origin: Telnet toltbbs.com or call 313-854-6001, Boardwatch #55 (1:234/2)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 96 of 154
 From : Leman Russ                          1:2250/7        .åò 06 .þí 96 03:43
 To   : Eric Fishbein
 Subj : Re: Advanced Tech.
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
The mimbs may have reached the acme of data storage tech a long time ago,and had
no reasont o improve.

 I caught another glitch in that ep, now that you made me think of it. That old
tape had a segment where the defiant..er white star moved in to save B4 from the
shadow attack, but...that was an external view. WHo took it? YAB5I....

>:[

--- DLG Pro v1.0/DLGMail
 * Origin: Sage's Tower - Amiga - (618) 259-1844 (1:2250/7)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 97 of 154
 From : Leman Russ                          1:2250/7        .åò 06 .þí 96 03:45
 To   : Frank Glover
 Subj : Re: Inconsistent Shadows.
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 FG>    And what indeed do we do when, like V'ger, we know all that is
 FG> knowable about the Universe...?

 FG>    Frank

 I read the book you mentioned with the cheela. Fascinating from a technical and
scientific spandpoint, but very dull and dry characterwise.

 As to your question about knowing everything, I refer you to AC clarkes "The
lost worlds of 2001" where the alien, Clindar, thought that when the universe
ran out of surprises, it was time to die.

>:[

--- DLG Pro v1.0/DLGMail
 * Origin: Sage's Tower - Amiga - (618) 259-1844 (1:2250/7)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 98 of 154
 From : Leman Russ                          1:2250/7        .åò 06 .þí 96 03:48
 To   : Jeff Hancock
 Subj : Re: The sf channel
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 JH> I don't actually have the SF channel, but I have heard that they do
 JH> show
 JH> some anime - badly dubbed and usually poor selections, though.

 JH> You'd be much better off buying, renting, or dealing with
 JH> fansubbers/
 JH> traders.

 Yeah, I found that out. They ruined Dominion when they translated it. GHAWD< IT
SUCKED!!!!! Thank ghawd I have the subbed copies.

>:[

--- DLG Pro v1.0/DLGMail
 * Origin: Sage's Tower - Amiga - (618) 259-1844 (1:2250/7)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 99 of 154
 From : Leman Russ                          1:2250/7        .åò 06 .þí 96 03:49
 To   : Brion Lienhart
 Subj : Re: Beautiful vampires
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 I don't watch weird sceince, having too much respect for my poor, abused,
neglected and unappreciated brain cells, but sometimes I do see the end whilst I
await a half hour of yuks with Duckman.

>:[

--- DLG Pro v1.0/DLGMail
 * Origin: Sage's Tower - Amiga - (618) 259-1844 (1:2250/7)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 100 of 154
 From : Leman Russ                          1:2250/7        .åò 06 .þí 96 03:52
 To   : Vicki Nichols
 Subj : Re: Forever Knight
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Yeah, vicki, I watched it until the ruined it by killing schanke, omaha and
"zhah-net". After thay brought in the token black and the needless pieces of
pretty meat (Vachoun or whatever) I said Hasta la vista baby.

>:[

--- DLG Pro v1.0/DLGMail
 * Origin: Sage's Tower - Amiga - (618) 259-1844 (1:2250/7)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 101 of 154
 From : Leman Russ                          1:2250/7        .åò 06 .þí 96 03:56
 To   : Frank Glover
 Subj : Re: White star = the defiant
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
LR>   The defiant was called "overgunned and overpowered" for a very good
LR>  reason, IT WAS.
LR>
LR>   The ships engines were so large, in relation to the mass ofthe ship,
LR>  that they overstressed it, which could result in the hull failing.

 FG>    And we do have a precedent for that fm the time Nomad jacked up
 FG> the efficency of the original Enterprise's engines. Scott or Kirk
 FG> said pretty much the same thing....

 FG>    Frank

Thanks for coming in on my side, dude.

>:[

--- DLG Pro v1.0/DLGMail
 * Origin: Sage's Tower - Amiga - (618) 259-1844 (1:2250/7)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 102 of 154
 From : Leman Russ                          1:2250/7        .åò 06 .þí 96 03:57
 To   : Joey Haven
 Subj : Re: The sf channel
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
I'vetried and tried to get those dorks at TCI to carry TSFC, but they've come
out and said since they'rw a monopoly thay don;t have to give a damn what the
customers want.

 I want the SF channel, but I have a gripe with it: It's soacking up damn near
every SF show around, leaving nothing but "Tuff ----" for people who don;t have
it. That may be capitalism, but its also kind of inconsiderate and selfish.

>:[

--- DLG Pro v1.0/DLGMail
 * Origin: Sage's Tower - Amiga - (618) 259-1844 (1:2250/7)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 103 of 154
 From : Leman Russ                          1:2250/7        .åò 06 .þí 96 03:59
 To   : Nicolai Shapero
 Subj : Re: WHITE STAR = THE DEFI
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On the infamous date of 04 Jun 96  05:48:47, Nicolai Shapero blurted out:

 NS> On <Jun 02 23:32>, Bob Klahn (1:234/2) wrote to Mark Jones:

 BK> I have seen no indication the dominion has anything comparable.

 NS> The Dominion seems to have gone with the "nibbled to death by ducks"
 NS> approach to combat.  The Jem'Hadadar ships look small in comparison
 NS> with a alaxy class starship, and they might not have the "staying
 NS> power" (ability toto fight for prolonged periods away from a base of
 NS> operation), but the Dominion appears to have a LOT of the little
 NS> buggers...

 NS> -- Nicolai Shapero, the Mad Russian Sysop of StormGate Aerie

 NS> --- msged 2.06
 NS>  * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)
 NS> SEEN-BY: 13/13 75 102/735 104/821 105/103 330 107/411 109/1200
 NS> 123/16 129/11

 NSSEEN-BY: 133/707 138/146 140/23 153/800 920 157/586 167/90 200/204

 NS> 201/505
 NS> SEEN-BY: 203/992 204/200 206/2711 209/720 2/801 234/100 239/1
 NS> 245/6910

 I notivce that starfleet must have solved the dominions ability to shoot thru
standard sheilds too.

>:[

--- DLG Pro v1.0/DLGMail
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 Msg  : 104 of 154
 From : Leman Russ                          1:2250/7        .åò 06 .þí 96 04:01
 To   : Nicolai Shapero
 Subj : Re: outer limits
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 LR> They don't do that too much in the new Ol, they rely on action
 LR>and SFX, along with gore and nudity.

 NS> I haven't seen much in the way of nudity, but then again, I've
 NS> hardly watched every episode of t new Outer Limits.  What has
 NS> offended me most about the show is that, with one notable exception,
 NS> all of the scripts of the shows that I've seen have been BAD --
 NS> poorly written pieces of trash.  The one exception was the screen
 NS> adaptation of a Larry Niven story, INCONSTANT MOON.  That one wasn't
 NS> done half bad.  And IMNSHO, SFX will NEVER make up for a bad
 NS> script...


 How right you are, nicky boy, how right you are.

>:{

--- DLG Pro v1.0/DLGMail
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 Msg  : 105 of 154
 From : Leman Russ                          1:2250/7        .åò 06 .þí 96 04:02
 To   : Bob Klahn
 Subj : Re: WHITE STAR = THE DEFI
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 BK>  Someone once told me that during and before WW2 the British would
 BK> design a
 BK>  fighter aircraft as the most aerodynamic fighting machine they
 BK> could, then
 BK>  move things where they had to in order to give the pilot room to
 BK> fit in. The
 BK>  US, OTOH, would design a cockpit for the pilot, then desesign an
 BK> airplane
 BK>  around that. The US plane tended to require more horse power, but
 BK> either
 BK>  would work just fine. The British plane would be more efficient,
 BK> but the US
 BK>  plane would be superior for long range and long duration flights.

  IOW, the britts considered ergonomics to be secondary and the Americans made
it primary. This is true, and the germans were ever worse about ergonomics.

 The nazi fighters, like the Me-101, were powerful, well armed and effective but
had THE RST ergonomics of anything since the iron maiden. I, a war and war
machine buff, watched a show about WW2 fighters and a nexpert talked about how
the nazi fighters compared to their allied counterparts and he said the same
things you did.

 In SF, I guess the klingons don't do ergonomic designs because they'd consider
it weak to want things comfortable, which is why theirships can't win a fair
fight.

>:[

--- DLG Pro v1.0/DLGMail
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 Msg  : 106 of 154
 From : Don Bach                            1:3632/65       .åò 06 .þí 96 18:27
 To   : Leman Russ
 Subj : The sf channel
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 LR>  Does anyone here have the sf channel? If so does it do
 LR> anything but show old shows? Does it have Japanimation?
 LR> Original programming? whatever?

I gave up on my local cable system and got Primestar just to get SciFi.  The
picture and sound are both perfect.

SciFi does some new shows and shows some Japanimation.  Very little original
programming.

Monday - Thursady schedule features Animation Station (cartoons like Star Wars,
Ewocks, Back to the Future, etc.), Lost in Space, Beauty & the Beast, Dark
Shadows, assorted features from the "SciFi Channel Series Collection", Alfred
Hitchcock, Tales from the Darkside, Night Gallery, Ray Bradbury, Buck Rodgers,
The Incredible Hulk, The Bionic Woman, Six Million Dollar Man, Twilight Zone,
Monsters, Forever Knight, Quantum Leap and a nightly movie based on a weekly
theme (this week (Marvel Heroes Week): The Incredible Hulk Returns, Captain
America 2, Dr Strange, and Amazing Spider Man) or alternating between the Series
Collection and Friday the 13th: The Series.  Friday adds The Anti-Gravity Room
(original??), Battlestar Galactica, Masters of Fantasy (original), C-Net Central
(produced with USA Network), Kolchak: The Nightstalker, Sci-Fi Buzz and In Space
(original).  Saturday adds more movies (this Saturday: Lensman, Mandroid, The
Fury, Within the Rock), The Odyssey, Dracula, Swamp Thing and Max Headroom.
Sunday adds Mad Scientist, Space:1999, Starman, more movies (this Sunday:
Rosemary's Baby), Amazing Stories, Alien Nation, War of the Worlds and Father
Dowling Mysteries.

I enjoy most of the offering, but some of it is trash.  For the movie theme this
week, Stan Lee is hosting the movies and offering commentary.  Several weeks ago
was Planet of the Apes week and they had Roddy McDowell host.  Other themes have
been insects, inaccurate anatomy, etc.

When I first looked into Primestar, it looked only slightly more than the local
cable service.  However, we opted for 2 receivers.  With 3 HBO, 2 Cinemax and 2
Disney channels, we are paying about $80 per month.  However, we didn't have the
buy the dish which will become obsolete in 2 years.

There are alternatives to your local cable service (Primestar, DSS, and wireless
cable).  Why put up with them?

Don


--- Maximus 3.01
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 Msg  : 107 of 154
 From : Don Dellmann                        1:154/750       .ÿò 07 .þí 96 16:24
 To   : James Walton
 Subj : The state of Chalker
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: FastEcho 1.45b.b2 8060
While tripping merrily through the mail, James Walton was overheard

 DD> I enjoy Chalker, even though he does seem to have one rather
 DD> "kinky fetish" that runs through a lot of his work (Chalker
 DD> fans will know what I mean).

 JW> That "kinky fetish" is what Chalker calls his "trademark."

I guess as long as he doesn't show up at cons wearing a dress we're
OK :-)

 DD> I especially enjoyed the "Changewind" stories, "The Devil
 DD> Will Drag You Under", "Downtiming The Night Side" and the
 DD> "G.O.D. Inc." stories, although he will always best be
 DD> remembered for the "Well of Souls" stories (and the "Four
 DD> Lords Of The Diamond" aren't too bad either).

 JW> Except for the addition of the "Dancing gods" series, I have noting to
 JW> add or argue with.

I should have mentioned them...

 CBIP _Demons Of The Dancing Gods_ 182/257 (far about the fourth time)

About the only ones I couldn't really get into were the "Rings of the Masters",
and I haven't read any of the "Soul Rider" books, are they any good?

Don

... Who is this Jim fellow and why is he so "slippery"??
---
 * Origin: *YOPS ]I[* 3.1 GIG * RA/FD/FE RADist * Milwaukee, WI (1:154/750)

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 Msg  : 108 of 154
 From : Brion Lienhart                      1:213/700.2     .åò 06 .þí 96 16:34
 To   : Glenn Misztal
 Subj : Lois and Clark
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On Wed May 29, Glenn Misztal said to All:

 -GM>S
 -GM>P
 -GM>O
 -GM>I
 -GM>L
 -GM>E
 -GM>R
 -GM>S
 -GM>!
 -GM>!
 -GM>_








 -GM>Did anyone watch Lois and Clark get "married" last night? Well, Clark
 -GM>married a *CLONE* of Lois! I for one am sick and tired of shocker
 -GM>plot-lines like this... Lois and Clark have just broken off their
 -GM>engagement in the comics and Clark is started to date a Mermaid...(No

That was last season here in the US. I guess you don't want to hear about this
season's shocker plot-line cliff-hanger season ending. One thing you have to
remember is that except for the names, the TV show and the comics don't have
anything in common. I gave up on the Superman comics the first time Superman
died.



--- QM v1.31
 * Origin: Ministry of Peace - Carson City, NV (1:213/700.2)

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 Msg  : 109 of 154
 From : David Johnston                      1:342/14        .ÿò 07 .þí 96 00:23
 To   : Vicki Nichols
 Subj : Forever Knight
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
->    Well, as a staunch science fiction fan ever since I could read,
-> I'm a
-> little embarrassed to bring THIS one up as it isn't strictly science
-> fiction...but does/did anyone else out there watch "Forever Knight"?

I watched up until the most recent season.  What I regret is that they
never introduced any other supernatural elements.

--- PCBoard (R) v15.21/100
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 Msg  : 110 of 154
 From : David Johnston                      1:342/14        .ÿò 07 .þí 96 01:16
 To   : Bob Klahn
 Subj : Inconsistent Shadows.
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
-> I find most SF shows have little idea of what the passage of time
-> actually means. I find it hard to believe in the Mimbarii not
-> advancing significantly in a thousand years. I can't believe at all
-> that a sentient species could

Of course there's no particular reason to think that the Mimbarii
haven't advanced significantly, although they are obviously a more
conservative species than humanity.


-> I can't imagine the Jedi keeping the peace in any Galatic political
-> system for a thousand generations.

I doubt they did, if you mean preventing all warfare for that time
frame.  But the Jedi certainly would have tried to keep peaces and could
reasonably have survived for that long, and maintained the Republic
throughout.

-> I believe a thousand years from now even the human race will have
-> advanced to technology that will literally be magic to us. Just the
-> rate of change we experience now should give that result, and the
-> rate is increasing.

I often suspect that rather than increasing, it is leveling out.  After
all, in the last thirty years, I haven't noticed anything more than
trivial improvements apart from the field of cybernetics...at least in
day-to-day living.  As Calvin noted, we're almost in the 21st century.
Where are the jet-packs, et cetera?

--- PCBoard (R) v15.21/100
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 Msg  : 111 of 154
 From : David Johnston                      1:342/14        .ÿò 07 .þí 96 01:17
 To   : Bob Klahn
 Subj : Inconsistent Shadows.
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
-> This possibilty has occured to me, and it is reasonable. It implies
-> the Shadows essentially know everything there is to know. OTOH, there
-> are other races alluded to who are more advanced than the Shadows.

Who would those races be?

--- PCBoard (R) v15.21/100
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 Msg  : 112 of 154
 From : Frank Glover                        1:2613/477      .ÿò 07 .þí 96 20:06
 To   : Henry Triplett
 Subj : Re: Lois and Clark
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

HT>   GM> engagement in the comics and Clark is  started to date a
HT>  Mermaid...(No
HT>   GM> lie! Her name is Lori Lemaris 'L.L.' -  typical.) Seeing Mulder
HT>  blown
HT>   GM> up, was enough, but this season shocker is really  bad....
HT>
HT>  A mermaid?!?  That's a new one! (I think.)

   Not really. If you've been around long enough to remember the DC Universe
before the `Crisis on Infinite Earths' re-arrainged everything, you'd know Lori
as one of the many women with L.L. initals that Supes gets involved with. Lori
was killed of in that series (as was the Supergirl who was his cousin Kara). but
many of these characters seem to be coming back in rather different forms.

   This is the new, improved Lori Lemaris.

  Frank


--- QuickBBS 2.80 GoldBase (Zeta-1.9A)
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 Msg  : 113 of 154
 From : Patrick Long                        1:271/380       .åò 06 .þí 96 16:22
 To   : Glenn Misztal
 Subj : Lois and Clark
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

  -=>with a couple of the X-men and I don't even *READ* Marvel comics...
  -=>On a brighter note...if you read any DC comics...mail me....

C'mon over to Comics echo...

... "Love is eternal." Ä Clifton Webb

--- ViaMAIL!/WC5 v1.00b
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 Msg  : 114 of 154
 From : Tony Sayger                         1:366/205       .òp 04 .þí 96 22:48
 To   : Lawrence E Dunlap
 Subj : Re: Robert A. Heinlein
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Falcon said this wisdom about Lawrence E Dunlap's post to Kay
about Robert A. Heinlein on 06-04-96  20:58:

 LED> Did RAH ever write a ST:TOS script that was actually produced and
 LED> aired? I saw two TOS eps written by "Robert A. Heinemann" and have

VERY weak link...

 LED> wondered if this was a *nom de plume* for RAH even thogh I later
 LED> realized *Star Trek* was somewhat off-center as a SF show from RAH's
 LED> core values to psuedonym a script in additional consideration to his
 LED> declining lucidity during those days.
 LED> (1:106/2927) or Internet  "PostOakLED@AOL.com"

Dear:
 [X] AOLer     [ ] Clue less Newbie [ ] Con-artist  [ ] Pervert
You Are Being Flamed Because:
 [X] Your sig/alias/server stinks
 [X] You seem to have trouble with associations and can't hold a
     discussion properly
To Repent, You Must:
 [X] Give up your AOL account
In Closing, I'd Like to Say:
 [X] Other:
Considering that Robert Heinlein's opinion of TeleVision was somewhat less
than flattering (called it a "<omitted> noisy-box" in STRANGER), I highly
doubt that he would have written a script for it. Also, you're correct in
saying ST was off-center to Heinlein's views.  I found your remark about
"declining lucidity" unnecessary and in poor taste.

ßàÜÇÔÿ
ïÄßÄï

... Life is stranger than fiction because fiction has to make sense.

___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20 [NR]

--- Sunny <HAHA> Florida
 * Origin: Megatropolis BBS¨Crestview, Fl. 14.4 Renegade!(904)689-0 (1:366/205)

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 Msg  : 115 of 154
 From : Mark Jones                          1:105/302.47    .îí 03 .þí 96 23:35
 To   : Todd Sullivan
 Subj : White star = the defiant
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On (01 Jun 96) Todd Sullivan wrote to Mark Jones...

 MJ> FAILURE. "Overgunned and overpowered..." (If not *the* stupidest
 MJ> words ever spoken in Star Trek, they're in the top ten....

 TS> Not from the point of view of Roddenberry, who said that Starfleet was
 TS> made up of explorers and scientists.

But the Defiant was designed as a *warship* -- nothing more and
nothing less.  If they had decided they didn't need single-purpose
warships after the Borg were defeated, I could accept that.  But
that's not what they said.  They said that the Defiant was
"overpowered and overgunned" and thus flawed.  Which is silly.

A vessel with more firepower than other ships many times its size, and
with sufficient power to run at warp speed *and* run the shields *and*
fire all those weapons is what you WANT in a warship.

 TS> Defiant was so single-mindedly designed that they ignored things like
 TS> habitability, which parallels the Los Angeles (SSN-688) attack
 TS> submarines, now that I think of it.

Defiant is unsuitable for long-term deep-space exploration--but then,
that's not what it was designed for.  It is admirably suited for its
intended mission:  heavy combat.


--- PPoint 1.78
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 Msg  : 116 of 154
 From : Mark Jones                          1:105/302.47    .îí 03 .þí 96 23:48
 To   : Ben Lusk
 Subj : The state of Chalker
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On (02 Jun 96) Ben Lusk wrote to 76...

 BL>     Am I the only one of my kind.  Sure, I realize that he has not
 BL> published anything of merit for quite a while, but Jack is interesting
 BL> and I just wondered if anyone else cared for his work.

   I've read and enjoyed his original five-volume WELL OF SOULS
series, and a couple of other novels by Chalker.
   However, I lost interest eventually when it became clear that
everything he's ever written--to the best of my knowledge--revolves
around physical transformation, mind-switching or some other means of
putting the characters into another form.
   He's hardly the only writer with a recurring theme in his works,
but this one simply doesn't grab me the way certain others do.


--- PPoint 1.78
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 Msg  : 117 of 154
 From : Mark Jones                          1:105/302.47    .åò 06 .þí 96 21:00
 To   : Leman Russ
 Subj : White star = the defiant
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On (Sun  2 Ju) Leman Russ wrote to Mark Jones...

 LR>  The defiant was called "overgunned and overpowered" for a very good
 LR> reason, IT WAS.

  That's a matter of opinion.

 LR>  The ships engines were so large, in relation to the mass ofthe ship,
 LR> that they overstressed it, which could result in the hull failing.

  There's this device called a "governor", which allows you to set a
maximum limit on how a vehicle can go, or how much power the engine
generates.  (And, in an emergency, when you may *die* if you don't
move really quick, well, you release the governor and go hellbent for
the horizon....)

 LR>     In the ep where the alternate universe crew needed sisko to help
 LR> them get their deifant online, they mentioned that problem and how
 LR> ithad to be fixed.

   A tiny bit of continuity (and a rationalization for why all Fed
starships aren't so heavily armed).


--- PPoint 1.78
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 Msg  : 118 of 154
 From : Mark Jones                          1:105/302.47    .åò 06 .þí 96 21:06
 To   : Frank Glover
 Subj : White star = the defiant
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On (04 Jun 96) Frank Glover wrote to Leman Russ...

 LR> The ships engines were so large, in relation to the mass ofthe
 LR> ship, that they overstressed it, which could result in the hull
 LR> failing.
 FG>
 FG>    And we do have a precedent for that from the time Nomad jacked up
 FG> the efficency of the original Enterprise's engines. Scott or Kirk said
 FG> pretty much the same thing....

   ...because Scotty couldn't SLOW DOWN!  Just because the power is
there doesn't mean you HAVE to use it.  But being able to shift into
"Bat Out Of Hell" *and* full power to the shields *and* have horrific
amounts of power left to blast holes in the bad guys is a good thing.


--- PPoint 1.78
 * Origin: Folcroft Sanitarium (hsmith@cure.com) (1:105/302.47)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 119 of 154
 From : Mark Jones                          1:105/302.47    .åò 06 .þí 96 21:11
 To   : Glenn Misztal
 Subj : Lois and Clark
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On (29 May 96) Glenn Misztal wrote to All...

 GM> Did anyone watch Lois and Clark get "married" last night? Well, Clark
 GM> married a *CLONE* of Lois! I for one am sick and tired of shocker
 GM> plot-lines like this... Lois and Clark have just broken off their
 GM> engagement in the comics and Clark is started to date a Mermaid...(No
 GM> lie! Her name is Lori Lemaris 'L.L.' - typical.) Seeing Mulder blown
 GM> up, was enough, but this season shocker is really bad....
 GM> Why can't Lois and Clark just get married and get on with life? Hey,
 GM> it worked with a couple of the X-men and I don't even *READ* Marvel
 GM> comics...

   ...because if Lois and Clark ever, uhm, well, you know--Lois will
DIE!  (Readers of Niven's "Man of Steel, Woman of Kleenex" know what I
mean....)

   No, the real reason is an inability (or unwillingness) to alter the
series in any meaningful way.  Lois knows his secret.  She is in
danger almost constantly.  Aside from going through a ceremony and
wearing rings, what difference would their being married make?  Almost
none (except that the characters would be happy--and we can't have
that).  The only difference is that the "sexual tension" would vanish
because they can (legally) slake their passions.
   But happily coupled couples are anathema on television.  Therefore,
they will never truly get married.


--- PPoint 1.78
 * Origin: Folcroft Sanitarium (hsmith@cure.com) (1:105/302.47)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 120 of 154
 From : Kay Shapero                         1:102/524       .åò 06 .þí 96 10:49
 To   : Joey Haven
 Subj : outer limits
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Jun 04 02:43>, Joey Haven (1:3654/5) wrote to Kay Shapero:

 KS> They did a decent job with their adaptation of Larry Niven's
 KS> "Inconstant Moon", but otherwise I haven't been too impressed with it
 KS> myself.  Sigh...

 JH>     Hello, would you tell me when this ep aired? I really liked

I don't recall I'm afraid.  Nicolai was channel surfing and stopped on a channel
that had two people outdoors talking under an improbably bright moon.  That in
itself reminded me of the story; shortly thereafter the dialogue removed all
doubt.  So we watched the rest of it.

--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 121 of 154
 From : Ken Mayes                           1:393/7         .óá 08 .þí 96 08:03
 To   : Leman Russ
 Subj : Re: White star = the defiant
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On Thu  6-Jun-1996  3:59a, Leman Russ said to Nicolai Shapero:

LR>  I notivce that starfleet must have solved the dominions ability to shoot
LR> thru standard sheilds too.


        Yes. It's called ablative (sp) armor. Basically the Defiant is coated
with a substance that absorbs the energy from weapons discharges and burns away
slowly. This gives them the ability (as demonstrated in the episode 'Way of the
Warrior') to stand up in combat unshielded against other foes.
        Apparently Sisko has been making many changes to the Defiant without
necessarily telling Star Fleet. In the episode 'Paradise Lost' an Excellsior
class Federation Starship engaged the Defiant and the other captain was
surprised that the Defiant had that armor. Apparently Sisko hadn't informed Star
Fleet of the changes to the Defiant's specs. The man's definitely showing signs
of paranoia when he doesn't even trust his own leaders. :)




--- CNet/3
 * Origin: The Bard's Tavern Denton, TX (817)243-5110 USR 28.8   (1:393/7)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 122 of 154
 From : Gary Pendlebury                     2:256/136.3     .åò 06 .þí 96 10:11
 To   : Earl Green
 Subj : Re: EEP!  EEP!  EEEEEEP!
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE 1.11+

 -=> Quoting Earl Green to All <=-

 EG> BABYLON 5 HAS BEEN RENEWED FOR A FOURTH SEASON!

 EG> Just thought you'd want to know. <G>

Great, thanks for that.

Seeya


    ........         Fidonet: 2:256/136.3
    | Gary |         E-Mail: gary.pendlebury@p3.f136.n256.z2.fidonet.org
    """"""""         Demonet: 666:67/1

> Call my BBS for a great time: -=* 01325 368679 11pm - 6am *=-
> Call the Solar Flare BBS for VGA Planets and Wildcat! 5: 0181 744 2829


... "Transporter chief Green, beam the landing party to the bridge"
--- GEcho 1.11+
 * Origin: StarBase Sixty-Seven 11pm-6am +44 (0)1325 368679 (2:256/136.3)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 123 of 154
 From : Henry Triplett                      1:106/564       .ÿò 07 .þí 96 09:31
 To   : KAY SHAPERO
 Subj : SFFAN discussion
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

-=> Quoting Kay Shapero to Henry Triplett <=-

 KS> On <Jun 03 12:27>, Henry Triplett (1:106/564) wrote to KAY SHAPERO:

 HT>What makes you think that it's *not* Wakko and Zakko running the
 HT>place? <g>
 HT>Looks like some of their work to me.

 KS> Nope, they have more sense than that.  :->

You're probably right.  Maybe Pinky took some time off from the Brain and
*he's* running WB.

 KS> Speaking of the Warners, imagine the fun if they were to visit Babylon
 KS> 5  themselves.  :->  Popping up in C&C at odd moments (making them
 KS> odder),  mistaking a Vorlon encounter suit for a refrigerator and
 KS> checking to see if the  light goes out when you shut the door, turning
 KS> up in Londo's suite as  exterminators, making Morden and his buddies
 KS> their "Special Friends"...

LOL!  Imagine their encounter with Ivanova or Delenn. (Helloooo, Nurse!)
Or when they go over to cheer up Dr. Franklin!  I wonder how Lennier would
deal with them?  And imagine the reaction if/when they tell Garibaldi that
Daffy isn't so hot.

 KS> Y'know, I'd really love to see an Animaniacs B5 parody!  Wonder if
 KS> Warners'll  ever do one.

Well, we can always hope.

Henry


... "I think so, Brain, but isn't Regis Philbin already married?"

___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20 [NR]
--- GEcho 1.00
 * Origin: Eat Flaming Death    Houston Texas    713-447-1927 (1:106/564)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 124 of 154
 From : Leman Russ                          1:2250/7        .ÿò 07 .þí 96 04:20
 To   : Casey
 Subj : Re: outer limits
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
TOL is on Showtime.

>:[

--- DLG Pro v1.0/DLGMail
 * Origin: Sage's Tower - Amiga - (618) 259-1844 (1:2250/7)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 125 of 154
 From : Brandon Wolgast                     1:363/281       .pä 05 .þí 96 12:43
 To   : Kay Shapero
 Subj : Space Above & Beyond
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE/32 1.2

KS>Whoof!  I guess they DID get the word about cancellation before they filmed
KS>that one...  And what a title "Tell our moms we did our best".  Ouch.

KS>Not to mention the possible tweak of the producerial noses when it's mostly
KS>mistake of a suit that gets everybody blown to bits.  Bye Wildcards - it was
KS>fun watching.

It was actually cancelled?  I was hearing it was and was not but didn't
know.  I was hoping it would go on.  The ending was great, and it did
leave us hanging, I mean, Earth is the Chig homeworld basically, and the
people who died... would have made for a good second season.  Wang was
gone, Vansen and Dampheus(sp) would not have been back for some time
even if they DID survive.

I can't believe it was cancelled, it was a good show.

***
 * OLX 2.1 * "Are you ready for some football!!" -Tom Servo

--- Use the FORCE!!!
 * Origin: Feduberator * STAR WARS Support * (407)381-2798 (1:363/281)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 126 of 154
 From : James Walton                        1:129/260       .óá 08 .þí 96 09:38
 To   : Don Dellmann
 Subj : Re: The state of Chalker
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Re Jack Chalker's "kinky" fetish.

 > I guess as long as he doesn't show up at cons wearing a
 > dress we're OK :-)

You ever seen/met Chalker.  I doubt if he has the poor taste to wear a dress in
public, and even if he did, his wife wouldn't permit it.

 > About the only ones I couldn't really get into were the
 > "Rings of the Masters",
 > and I haven't read any of the "Soul Rider" books, are they


Huh.  You wimped out at the same place I did.

--- Opus-CBCS 1.73a
 * Origin: ConFluence '96:  Return to Mars! (1:129/260.0)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 127 of 154
 From : Glenn Shaheen                       1:3600/7        .åò 06 .þí 96 16:23
 To   : Glenn Misztal
 Subj : Star Trek Resurrections..
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

GM>Subject: Star Trek Resurrections...

GM>OK.... I have what is (supposedly) a plot sysnopsis for the next Star Tre
GM>movie...No, not a script, but a plot...I'm not sure if this is the real
GM>deal (some one from Paramount gave it to me) but from what I've read so
GM>far, it seems to correspond with what little detail is given in Sci-
GM>Fi/Movie mags lately... If anyone is interested in me uploading this here
GM>or in any of the other Message areas....let me know....
GM>                                                - Glenn

        Yeah! Upload it here. I saw the new uniforms and I think
they suck really bad.
-=-
 * OLX 2.2 * "A lie is a terminological inexactitude." -- Churchill

--- SLMAIL v3.5C  (#1540)
 * Origin: Robotech þ Lake City's Music*Demo BBS þ [904] 758*9477 (1:3600/7)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 128 of 154
 From : Glenn Shaheen                       1:3600/7        .åò 06 .þí 96 16:23
 To   : Frank Swarbrick
 Subj : cancelled
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

FS>if Babylon 5 was cancelled!  I don't think WB dare even think about

        Then happy days would be here again...
-=-
 * OLX 2.2 * "A little too much chlorine in THAT gene pool." -Seinfeld

--- SLMAIL v3.5C  (#1540)
 * Origin: Robotech þ Lake City's Music*Demo BBS þ [904] 758*9477 (1:3600/7)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 129 of 154
 From : Owen E. Oulton                      1:243/45        .óá 08 .þí 96 01:19
 To   : Leman Russ
 Subj : Re: Advanced Tech.
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 LR> The mimbs may have reached the acme of data storage
 LR> tech a long time ago,and had no reasont o improve.

 LR>  I caught another glitch in that ep, now that you made
 LR> me think of it. That old tape had a segment where the
 LR> defiant..er white star moved in to save B4 from the
 LR> shadow attack, but...that was an external view. WHo
 LR> took it? YAB5I....

No glitch, that...  Listen to what Delenn says while they're watching the
images.  She tells them that the images were supplied by Draal, who retrieved
them from the records in the Great Machine on (or in) Epsilon III.

The only *real* glitches I spotted were costume and makeup glitches, mostly
between the new footage of Zathras and the Babylon Squared footage (more raccoon
tails on the costume in the new footage and long fingernails in the old
footage).

CFN, O

--- Maximus 2.01wb
 * Origin: Pandora's Box, Ottawa, Ont. 613-829-1209 (1:243/45)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 130 of 154
 From : Frank Swarbrick                     1:104/825       .ÿò 07 .þí 96 21:56
 To   : Henry Triplett
 Subj : cancelled
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12  92-0022
On 06-06-96  12:06 Henry Triplett, the heir to the kingdom of idiots, said:

 -=> Quoting Frank Swarbrick to All <=-

 FS> (No, I'm not saying B5 is cancelled.)

 HT> Thank Great Maker!

 FS> I saw an interesting note in the paper today.  It was recently
 FS> announced that Nowhere Man was not renewed.  Touchstone Television
 FS> (the production studio) says they have received upwards to 10,000
 FS> e-mail messages in the last eight days protesting it!  Not that it
 FS> will help, but it's still cool to note.  Just think what would happen
 FS> if Babylon 5 was cancelled!  I don't think WB dare even think about
 FS> it!  :-)

 HT> Do you have an e-mail address for Touchstone?  Or even better, a snail
 HT> mail address.  The wife and I enjoyed Nowhere Man, I think it was the
 HT> only show on UPN worth watching.

Umm, no I don't know it (the address).  I bet you could find it on the
Web, if you tried.  I don't know that there's much point now.  If
10000 emails doesn't do it I doubt one more will matter much.  Oh
well.

(Almost all the shows I like are cancelled so I get rather
discouraged.)

        Frank

... Let them eat static!
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12
 * Origin: The Bailey Information Exchange BBS, 28.8k v.fc  (1:104/825.0)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 131 of 154
 From : Frank Swarbrick                     1:104/825       .ÿò 07 .þí 96 22:00
 To   : Joey Haven
 Subj : Re: Nowhere Man season fi
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12  92-0022
On 06-06-96  02:45 Joey Haven, the heir to the kingdom of idiots, said:

 FS> Yeah, I saw that.  Bummer.  And neither was Space: Above and Beyond,
 JH>                                             ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
 JH> another show that was just starting to get really good.  Argh!
 JH> Another victim of poor programming. Putting *any* new show up
 JH> against popular, well-liked shows like Mad About You is suicide.
 JH> At least that's how the network treated that show here. After
 JH> failing on Sunday it move at least 4 or 5 times. Too bad, I liked
 JH> what I saw but, working nights I can only tape one show at a time
 JH> and that one lost.

SAAB wasn't really up against Mad About You.  It was an hour earlier.
Up against 60 Minutes!

Still, I even had a heard time watching it at 6:00 (Mountain time).
Usually I recorded it, except the few times I forgot.

        Frank

... ALL DONE - BYE BYE!
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12
 * Origin: The Bailey Information Exchange BBS, 28.8k v.fc  (1:104/825.0)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 132 of 154
 From : Frank Swarbrick                     1:104/825       .óá 08 .þí 96 07:50
 To   : Leman Russ
 Subj : Re: ?
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12  92-0022
On 06-03-96  05:38 Leman Russ, the heir to the kingdom of idiots, said:

 KS> There's also a FIDO B5 echo you may find of interest.

 LR> Too bad it's ran by a little **)(**&)(*&!!! who thinks he's a cross
 LR> between god and hitler...
 >:{

I'll make no judgements on the BABYLON5 echo moderator, but I will say
that I've only seen one message from him in about three months, and it
was not moderator related.  Give the echo a try.  It has the best
signal/noise ratio of any echo I know of.

        Frank

... Let them eat static!
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12
 * Origin: The Bailey Information Exchange BBS, 28.8k v.fc  (1:104/825.0)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 133 of 154
 From : Frank Swarbrick                     1:104/825       .óá 08 .þí 96 08:02
 To   : Vicki Nichols
 Subj : Forever Knight
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12  92-0022
On 06-05-96  20:01 Vicki Nichols, the heir to the kingdom of idiots, said:

 VN>      Well, as a staunch science fiction fan ever since
 VN> I could read, I'm a little embarrassed to bring THIS
 VN> one up as it isn't strictly science fiction...but
 VN> does/did anyone else out there watch "Forever Knight"?

 BG> Oh, absolutely! The SciFi channel runs it on Monday
 BG> nights, and I catch it every change I can.

 VN> Oh, THANK GOD!  I was stunned a few weeks ago when they killed
 VN> off Vachon, actually it RUINED my WHOLE WEEK!  I made about a dozen
 VN> long-distance phone calls to various and sundry places to protest,
 VN> finally got James Parriott's office in, I believe, North Hollywood, and
 VN> the secretary informed me that they had finished shooting the last
 VN> episode a few months ago...and to be prepared for even more closure the
 VN> next episode.
 VN> Damn it!  All I need to do is like a show; look what happened to
 VN> Star Trek and Picket Fences.  Forever Knight is on here Saturday nights
 VN> at 11:30 pm,sandwiched in between Sightings and The Extraordinary.

 VN> The secretary said it was filmed for three years, but I haven't
 VN> seen three years' worth of episodes, have you?  They just started over
 VN> again here and I started taping this time...with the two part "Black
 VN> Buddha" which, ironically, was the first episode I ever saw.  I assume
 VN> it was the pilot.

 VN> Any idea what Ben Bass is doing now?  Jeez, he was the #1 reason
 VN> I watch it!

Nope, "Black Buddah" was the season premier of the third season.
Don't you remember Nick's angst about losing Schanke (his partner) and
Cohen (his boss) in that plane crash?

Anyway, FK has been around for quite a while.  It began as a pilot /
movie called "Nick Knight" in 1989, with (if you can believe it) Rick
Springfield as Nick!  His partner was Don Schanke, played by the same
person who played Schanke in the series.  LaCroix was there, played by
a different actor, as was Jeanette (a character from previous
seasons), also played by a different person.  Nick's friend the
coroner was a man in this one.

This was followed by a new pilot in 1992, renamed "Dark Knight," and
the series became Forever Knight.  Nick and the others (except
Schanke) were recast with new actors and it became a series that aired
on CBS's "Crime Time After Prime Time."  The CTAPT was cancelled when
CBS got Letterman, but Forever Knight went into first run syndication
for it's second season, 1994-1995.

Myself, I began watching it part way through the second season.  With
repeats I'm fairly certain I managed to see all the second season
episodes.  I've never seen any first season episodes at all, though I
did manage to catch the Nick Knight movie on Lifetime Cable.  It
wasn't very good, imho.

The SciFi Channel is supposed to show the first and second seasons at
some point, but not perhaps until 1997.  Can't wait!  The only things
I've season from season one were the flashbacks in "Last Knight."
Nick looked pretty "tuff" back then!  Leather jacket, really butch
hair.  Interesting.

        Frank

... "It's all true...especially the lies."
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12
 * Origin: The Bailey Information Exchange BBS, 28.8k v.fc  (1:104/825.0)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 134 of 154
 From : Todd Sullivan                       1:202/720.3     .óá 08 .þí 96 07:40
 To   : Leman Russ
 Subj : Advanced Tech.
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Reports from the Interior indicate that Leman Russ leaked the following to Eric
Fishbein, re: Advanced Tech.

 LR> The mimbs may have reached the acme of data storage tech a long time
 LR> ago,and had no reason to improve.

Not necessarily.  There's always room for improvement, but a need and a method
have to be found.  Perhaps that need hasn't come to pass, as yet.

 LR>  I caught another glitch in that ep, now that you made me think of it.
 LR> That old tape had a segment where the defiant..er white star moved in
 LR> to save B4 from the shadow attack, but...that was an external view. WHo
 LR> took it? YAB5I....
 >> :[

It was stated that the Great Machine of Epsiolon 3 had been in place for 500
years, and recorded the entire incident.

Todd Sullivan

... "You get a little dirty; you get a lot clean.  Somewhere in the
     middle...I don't know.  You'll work it out." --Sparton

-*- ASTG 1.9

--- Spot 1.3a Unregistered
 * Origin: Todd's Spot in the Continuum (1:202/720.3)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 135 of 154
 From : Don Godfrey                         1:203/125       .cê 09 .þí 96 06:52
 To   : All
 Subj : Space:  Above and Beyond!
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Well,

This has by far got to be the best Sci Fi TV Show that I have seen in a long
time and I hope that it does NOT get cancelled!

It is very well done and is not a "clean" Science Fiction as many others
are.  It reminds me of the Aliens movies in a way but is unique in its own
rights.

The two part show that revealed the Chigs Identity was excellent but I think
that they may have jumped the gun as was done with BattleStar Galactica
previously.  I am afraid that they may have helped kill themselves in the
long run even though they have left a lot of "open" ends...(Wang,
Damphousse & Vansen, McQueen,  etc).

|04-J|12ed|14i M|15/´|07st|08er-
|04-S|12pa|14ce |15& S|07ci |08Fi |04BB|12s!|14-
|11F|03ido|11NET |03[|111|03:|112o3|03/|11125|03]
|13RGSN|05et [|135o|05:|131oo|05/|132o2|05]
|10ITCN|02et [|1085|02:|1081o|02:|103o4|02]
|09T|01rek|09NET |01[|0987|01:|096oo4|01/|099o3o|01]

--- GEcho 1.00
 * Origin: |12Space & Sci Fi BBs |11-=> |09[916] 684-6897 (1:203/125)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 136 of 154
 From : David Little                        1:106/7315      .óá 08 .þí 96 10:59
 To   : Leman Russ
 Subj : dr. who
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
-=< Leman Russ used the Jedi Mind Trick on me!>=-

 LR> Someone here called the last 3 years of Dr. Who the "Years of
 LR> decline". I heartily disagree! I thinbk the last three years gave us
 LR> some of the best eps ever, including "Re,membrance of the daleks" and
 LR> the one with the Authurian characters. Whaddaya think?

        I'm afraid I agree with the "Decline" phrase. The writing for Colin
Baker's Doctor was not worth beans. I liked his character, but the stories
they threw him in were not in the best of quality. Even that ridiculous
"Trial" was a waste of airtime.
        As for McCoy's series, there's only two I liked..."The Hand of Omega"
and "The White Tower"

                                        -=The DoLittle 8-)=-


... "Unstable? Unstable!!!??? UNSTABLE!!!!?????"
--- Blue Wave/DOS v2.30 [NR]
 * Origin: The Wizards Realm BBS 1-713-946-7315 1:106/7315 (1:106/7315)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 137 of 154
 From : David Little                        1:106/7315      .óá 08 .þí 96 12:08
 To   : Bob Klahn
 Subj : DR. WHO
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
-=< Bob Klahn used the Jedi Mind Trick on me!>=-

 DL> ... PertweeDos 3.0: (A)bort (R)etry (V)enusian karate

 BK> That's (V)enusian Akido, isn't it?

        I don't read `em, I just adopt `em!! <G>

                                        -=The DoLittle 8-)=-


... TomDOS 4.0- (G)rin, (O)ffer a jellybaby, (T)rip on scarf
--- Blue Wave/DOS v2.30 [NR]
 * Origin: The Wizards Realm BBS 1-713-946-7315 1:106/7315 (1:106/7315)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 138 of 154
 From : David Johnston                      1:342/14        .cê 09 .þí 96 00:49
 To   : Leman Russ
 Subj : Re: Advanced Tech.
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
-> The mimbs may have reached the acme of data storage tech a long time
-> ago,and ha no reasont o improve.
->
-> I caught another glitch in that ep, now that you made me think of it.
-> That old tape had a segment where the defiant..er white star moved in
-> to save B4 from th shadow attack, but...that was an external view.
-> WHo took it? YAB5I....

Why...the Vorlons of course.

--- PCBoard (R) v15.21/100
 * Origin: Freddy's Place - Edm. AB - 33.6K (403) 413-3460 (1:342/14)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 139 of 154
 From : Bob Klahn                           1:234/2         .ÿò 07 .þí 96 15:08
 To   : Nicolai Shapero
 Subj : INCONSISTENT SHADOWS.
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 NS> On <Jun 03 13:51>, Bob Klahn (1:234/2) wrote to Nicolai Shapero:

 BK>> means. I find it hard to believe in the Mimbarii not advancing
 BK>>significantly
 BK>> in a thousand years. I can't believe at all that a sentient
 BK>>species could
 BK>> survive a million years and not be far advanced beyond anything
 BK>>we can
 BK>> imagine.

 NS> I can easily imagine a culture going in to stasis for a thousand years
 NS> (its happened on Earth).  But I'd agree that after a million years or
 NS> so I'd expect SOMETHING to crack the shell...

 Even in the dark ages there was actually significant scientific
 advancement. In every case I see the actual flowering of culture seems to
 be attached to an increase in communication with outside cultures. Seems
 to me access to an interstellar society of vastly different cultures
 should result in an explosion of knowledge.

 That, BTW, is my objection to the "Prime Directive" as adhered to by ST in
 all it's incarnations. Essentially it would tend to stifle learning and
 development. Esp for those considered "Inferior."

Bob Klahn

... Sometimes I just don't get it at all.
 * Silver Xpress V4.02B03 RB10275

--- FLAME v1.1
 * Origin: Telnet toltbbs.com or call 313-854-6001, Boardwatch #55 (1:234/2)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 140 of 154
 From : Bob Klahn                           1:234/2         .ÿò 07 .þí 96 15:08
 To   : Leman Russ
 Subj : WHITE STAR = THE DEFI
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 LR> On the infamous date of 04 Jun 96  05:48:47, Nicolai Shapero blurted
 LR> out:

 NS>> On <Jun 02 23:32>, Bob Klahn (1:234/2) wrote to Mark Jones:

 BK>> I have seen no indication the dominion has anything comparable.

 NS>> The Dominion seems to have gone with the "nibbled to death by ducks"
 NS>> approach to combat.  The Jem'Hadadar ships look small in comparison
 NS>> with a alaxy class starship, and they might not have the "staying
 NS>> power" (ability toto fight for prolonged periods away from a base of
 NS>> operation), but the Dominion appears to have a LOT of the little
 NS>> buggers...

 An accurate description AFAIKS.

 In the one episode I saw with a battle between a conventional starship and
 the Jem Hadadar, the starship shields seemed ineffective against the Jem
 Hadadar weaponry. A point worthy of consideration, IMO. Seems fighting a
 bunch of "ducks" requires rethinking strategy.

Bob Klahn

... Entropy always wins.
 * Silver Xpress V4.02B03 RB10275

--- FLAME v1.1
 * Origin: Telnet toltbbs.com or call 313-854-6001, Boardwatch #55 (1:234/2)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 141 of 154
 From : Lawrence E Dunlap                   1:106/2927      .åò 06 .þí 96 18:43
 To   : Todd Sullivan
 Subj : Robert A. Heinlein
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

TS>Heinlein never wrote for TV.  In "Grumbles from the Grave", he points out
TS>that>he'd had it with Hollywood after all the problems of turning
TS>Destination Moon" into a movie, which never made it to the screen, TS>IIRC.

TS>Todd Sullivan

TS> Origin:(1:202/720.3)

    ??????? I *thought* I saw a movie titled *Destination: Moon* in the
video stores. Was that a totally different movie from the RAH version?
Or was it simply continued without RAH's approval?
Lawrence E Dunlap
(1:106/2927) or Internet  "PostOakLED@AOL.com"
___
* UniQWK #5136* In case of doubt, make it sound convincing.
- JetMail v1.12 - Unregistered QWK Mail Door for Spitfire

--- Alexi/Mail 2.02b (#10000)
 * Origin: Computer Living F'n BBS-Spring, TX 713-355-1596 (1:106/2927)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 142 of 154
 From : Lawrence E Dunlap                   1:106/2927      .åò 06 .þí 96 18:48
 To   : Bill Warren
 Subj : Re: STARSHIP TROOPERS
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

BW>I haven't read GRUMBLES FROM THE GRAVE, but Heinlein's dealings with TV
BW>and movie producers are somewhat different than legend has it.  He
BW>created a TV series, tried to create another, and optioned many of
BW>his books to films.

BW> Origin:  (1:102/749)

    I see that RAH's disgust with *Destination: Moon* was short lived
but when rejected the second time it held until f/x improvements made
his movies very sensible. Might have been planning that profits from
his movie options would sustain Mrs. Heinlein's remaining years

    Some of *Grumbles* might be old to you but read it so you can decide
if you want to recommend it to others. I plan to recommend *Grumbles*
because parts were ROTFL for me and made my afternoon!


Lawrence E Dunlap
(1:106/2927) or Internet  "PostOakLED@AOL.com"
___
* UniQWK #5136* A courageous foe is better than a cowardly friend.
- JetMail v1.12 - Unregistered QWK Mail Door for Spitfire

--- Alexi/Mail 2.02b (#10000)
 * Origin: Computer Living F'n BBS-Spring, TX 713-355-1596 (1:106/2927)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 143 of 154
 From : Lawrence E Dunlap                   1:106/2927      .åò 06 .þí 96 19:25
 To   : Kay Shapero
 Subj : Robert A. Heinlein
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

KS>.00>, Lawrence E Dunlap (1:106/2927) wrote to Kay Shapero:

KS>LE>    Did RAH ever write a ST:TOS script that was actually produced
KS>LE>and aired?

KS>Not that I've ever heard of.  I doubt it.
KS> Origin: (1:102/524)

    Thank you for your reply from your orbital station around Moosejaw.


Lawrence E Dunlap
(1:106/2927) or Internet  "PostOakLED@AOL.com"

___
* UniQWK #5136* Stupidity, if left untreated, is self-correcting.
- JetMail v1.12 - Unregistered QWK Mail Door for Spitfire

--- Alexi/Mail 2.02b (#10000)
 * Origin: Computer Living F'n BBS-Spring, TX 713-355-1596 (1:106/2927)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 144 of 154
 From : Lawrence E Dunlap                   1:106/2927      .cê 09 .þí 96 05:53
 To   : Tony Sayger
 Subj : Re: Robert A. Heinlein
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

TS>Falcon said this wisdom about Lawrence E Dunlap's post to Kay
TS>about Robert A. Heinlein on 06-04-96  20:58:
TS>LED> Did RAH ever write a ST:TOS script that was actually produced and
TS>LED> aired? I saw two TOS eps written by "Robert A. Heinemann" and have
TS>VERY weak link...
TS>LED> wondered if this was a *nom de plume* for RAH even thogh I later
TS>LED> realized *Star Trek* was somewhat off-center as a SF show from RAH's
TS>LED> core values to psuedonym a script in additional consideration to his
TS>LED> declining lucidity during those days.
TS>LED> (1:106/2927) or Internet  "PostOakLED@AOL.com"
TS>Dear:
TS>[X] AOLer     [ ] Clue less Newbie [ ] Con-artist  [ ] Pervert
TS>You Are Being Flamed Because:
TS>[X] Your sig/alias/server stinks
TS>[X] You seem to have trouble with associations and can't hold a
TS>discussion properly
TS>To Repent, You Must:
TS>[X] Give up your AOL account
TS>In Closing, I'd Like to Say:
TS>[X] Other:
TS>Considering that Robert Heinlein's opinion of TeleVision was somewhat less
TS>than flattering (called it a "<omitted> noisy-box" in STRANGER), I highly
TS>doubt that he would have written a script for it. Also, you're correct in
TS>saying ST was off-center to Heinlein's views.

TS> I found your remark about "declining lucidity" unnecessary and in

poor taste.

TS>* Origin: (1:366/205)

    I agree Heinlein's cognitive state in the late 1960's wasn't very
attractive to watch, however it was remedied by brain surgery. Else we
would have seen no fuether novels from RAH.

    You *could* have expressed a reasoned and reasonable objection to
the community rules used by that service or the content or that you
experienced some unpleasant experience. Instead you directly posted an
insult directly seeking a labile response.

    FYI, and because of that ineffective flaming of my AOL membership
(which wasted money and sysop stamina just to transmit your pettiness
from FL) a cheefrul e-mail to you and/or your sysop will be enroute. Not
from me, for that matter. It will speak to your comments with grear
forcefulness and vigor, possibly ending with a surprise.

Lawrence E Dunlap
(Who removed the offensive signature line for your reading pleasure)

___
* UniQWK #5136* PLEASE do NOT shoot at the nuclear devices!
- JetMail v1.12 - Unregistered QWK Mail Door for Spitfire

--- Alexi/Mail 2.02b (#10000)
 * Origin: Computer Living F'n BBS-Spring, TX 713-355-1596 (1:106/2927)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 145 of 154
 From : Owen E. Oulton                      1:243/45        .cê 09 .þí 96 04:43
 To   : Ken Mayes
 Subj : Defiant modifications
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 KM> Apparently Sisko has been making many changes to the Defiant without
 KM> necessarily telling Star Fleet.  In the episode 'Paradise Lost' an
 KM> Excelsior class Federation Starship engaged the Defiant and the other
 KM> captain was surprised that the Defiant had that armor.
 KM> Apparently Sisko hadn't informed Star Fleet of the changes to the
 KM> Defiant's specs. The man's definitely showing signs of paranoia when he
 KM> doesn't even trust his own leaders. :)

What you mean Admiral Leyton, who attempted a coup against the Federation
government?  That's not paranoia, that's a realistic assessment of the
situation... :-)

Seriously, though, if Leyton had thought to check, I suspect that reports have
been sent to Utopia Planitia Starfleet Yards R&D.  Just because nobody told
Admiral Leyton or Captain Benteen about the ablative armour doesn't mean he
hasn't been submitting reports.

CFN, O

--- Maximus 2.01wb
 * Origin: Pandora's Box, Ottawa, Ont. 613-829-1209 (1:243/45)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 146 of 154
 From : Scott Royall                        1:106/357       .cê 09 .þí 96 21:03
 To   : Kay Shapero
 Subj : S:AAB
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Kay,

It is clear by now that I will never get to see the last two episodes of S:AAB
so would you please, in your own unique style, "spoil" them for me.  Thanks. :)

Scott

sroyal@accesscomm.net
royall@shellus.com
FAX: 713-556-5464

--- GoldED/2 2.50+
 * Origin:  scott.royall@conch.cld9.com  713-556-5464  (1:106/357)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 147 of 154
 From : Eric Fishbein                       1:322/360       .cê 09 .þí 96 02:02
 To   : Leman Russ
 Subj : RE: ADVANCED TECH.
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 >  I caught another glitch in that ep, now that you made me think of
 > it. That old tape had a segment where the defiant..er white star
 > moved in to save B4 from the shadow attack, but...that was an
 > external view. WHo took it? YAB5I....
 > >:[

        Don't you know that it was actually an internal shot that was simulated
by the computer to look like an external view?  Hmm, maybe not.

--- FLAME v1.0/b
 * Origin: Add TSX-BBS, The Swiss Army Knife For TBBS! 508.429.8385 (1:322/360)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 148 of 154
 From : Earl Green                          1:3822/1        .îí 10 .þí 96 01:48
 To   : Don Godfrey
 Subj : SPACE:  ABOVE AND BEYOND!
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
  Hey Don,

DG>This has by far got to be the best Sci Fi TV Show that I have seen in a long
DG>time and I hope that it does NOT get cancelled!

  I'm afraid that it's already been chopped; any recent "new" episodes
  that have been shown were just those shows that were "in the can"
  prior to the cancellation. 8-(
      e  <-- Earl Green (earl.green@f1.n3822.z1.fidonet.org)  1:3822/1
                 Producer/artist/animator, Fox 46/UPN 32, Ft. Smith AR
---
 * SLMR 2.0 * "He's a few tiles short of a heat shield!" - Buh, JCC

--- QScan/PCB v1.19b / 01-0162
 * Origin: Jackalope Junction 501-785-5381 Ft Smith AR (1:3822/1)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 149 of 154
 From : Henry Triplett                      1:106/564       .îí 10 .þí 96 08:07
 To   : FRANK SWARBRICK
 Subj : cancelled
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

-=> Quoting Frank Swarbrick to Henry Triplett <=-

 HT> Do you have an e-mail address for Touchstone?  Or even better, a snail
 HT> mail address.  The wife and I enjoyed Nowhere Man, I think it was the
 HT> only show on UPN worth watching.

 FS> Umm, no I don't know it (the address).  I bet you could find it on the
 FS> Web, if you tried.  I don't know that there's much point now.  If
 FS> 10000 emails doesn't do it I doubt one more will matter much.  Oh
 FS> well.

Oh well.  I don't have Web access at this time.  And who knows, letter
writing campaigns have worked in the past, however rarely.  Maybe I can
be the one that pushes it to critical mass.

 FS> (Almost all the shows I like are cancelled so I get rather
 FS> discouraged.)

I know the feeling.  Most of the new shows that I liked over the past two
years are gone or in trouble.  Meanwhile, the garbage seems to have unlim-
ited life on the tube.

Henry

... "640K ought to be enough for anybody." - Bill Gates, 1981

___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20 [NR]
--- GEcho 1.00
 * Origin: Eat Flaming Death    Houston Texas    713-447-1927 (1:106/564)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 150 of 154
 From : Bob Klahn                           1:234/2         .cê 09 .þí 96 16:39
 To   : David Johnston
 Subj : INCONSISTENT SHADOWS.
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
->> I find most SF shows have little idea of what the passage of time
->> actually means. I find it hard to believe in the Mimbarii not
->> advancing significantly in a thousand years. I can't believe at all
->> that a sentient species could

 DJ> Of course there's no particular reason to think that the Mimbarii
 DJ> haven't advanced significantly, although they are obviously a more
 DJ> conservative species than humanity.

 I would think, if their starting point was the capability of interstellar
 warfare, a thousand years advancement would result in technology beyond
 our comprehension.

->> I can't imagine the Jedi keeping the peace in any Galatic political
->> system for a thousand generations.

 DJ> I doubt they did, if you mean preventing all warfare for that time
 DJ> frame.  But the Jedi certainly would have tried to keep peaces and could
 DJ> reasonably have survived for that long, and maintained the Republic
 DJ> throughout.

 Thirty thousand years of a single form of government and a single
 enforcement system, would require a society in total stagnation, IMO.

->> I believe a thousand years from now even the human race will have
->> advanced to technology that will literally be magic to us. Just the
->> rate of change we experience now should give that result, and the
->> rate is increasing.

 DJ> I often suspect that rather than increasing, it is leveling out.  After
 DJ> all, in the last thirty years, I haven't noticed anything more than
 DJ> trivial improvements apart from the field of cybernetics...at least in
 DJ> day-to-day living.  As Calvin noted, we're almost in the 21st century.
 DJ> Where are the jet-packs, et cetera?

 The jet-packs do exist, but turned out not to be worth the trouble. We
 have the capability of building monorails, moving sidewalks, skyways, etc.
 The real impediment is not the technology, it's the politics. Any one of
 those would require a government commitment, no private enterprise would
 really profit without government support. About the single best thing we
 could do to advance the art of transportation would be to abolish toll
 roads, and we can't even get them to take the tolls off the Turnpike here
 in Ohio. It was supposed to have been done a couple years ago. We have the
 technology to build high speed rail links, but it's all been nothing but
 talk for years. Too many people think since it won't directly benefit them
 it shouldn't be done at all. We don't lack the technology, we lack the
 will to use it.

 There has been an awful lot of change, but much of it is invisible. From
 automation in factories to computers in cars, it's there, but you can't
 see it. Try one thing, look at the next pop or beer can you get hold of.
 Notice it only has a seem for the lid? Twenty years ago it had top, bottom
 and side seams. A major change, but nobody ever notices.

 Of course one major reason we don't notice very many changes is that few
 changes are intended to improve your quality of life, most are to cut
 costs. If a factory is automated we don't wind up working 4 hours a week,
 like George Jetson, but still work 40, just do the work of four people in
 that time. We have much better air travel capability, but we don't fly in
 luxury, just cheaper.

 The maximum standard of living hasn't really increased that much, but the
 median has moved up drastically. It is said we have the richest poor
 people in the history of the world. OTOH, the bottom is still there. And
 some people are still at the bottom.

 Much of the improvement has also been in the enviornment. The air and
 water are much cleaner, but we don't see that in our pockets. None of that
 would have occurred without government regualtion, but it doesn't show up
 under the minimum wage.

 Other than medicine and computers I'm not sure I see a whole lot of
 improvement from the '50s. We do have more, but much of it was available
 in the 50's, just not to us. Then again, I beleive the ancient Roman
 Empire could have constructed a digital computer using mechanical devices.
 They just didn't know how to put it together. I often wonder what we are
 capable of, if only we knew how to put together our existing technology.

Bob Klahn

... Unable to locate thesaurus -- Operator Halted!
 * Silver Xpress V4.02B03 RB10275

--- FLAME v1.1
 * Origin: Telnet toltbbs.com or call 313-854-6001, Boardwatch #55 (1:234/2)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 151 of 154
 From : Bob Klahn                           1:234/2         .cê 09 .þí 96 16:39
 To   : Ken Mayes
 Subj : WHITE STAR = THE DEFI
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 KM> On Thu  6-Jun-1996  3:59a, Leman Russ said to Nicolai Shapero:

LR>>  I notivce that starfleet must have solved the dominions ability to shoot
LR>> thru standard sheilds too.

 KM>         Yes. It's called ablative (sp) armor. Basically the Defiant is
 KM>         coated with a substance that absorbs the energy from weapons
 KM>         discharges and burns away slowly. This gives them the ability
 KM>         (as demonstrated in the episode 'Way of the Warrior') to stand
 KM>         up in combat unshielded against other foes. Apparently Sisko
 KM>         has been making many changes to the Defiant without necessarily
 KM>         telling Star Fleet. In the episode 'Paradise Lost' an
 KM>         Excellsior class Federation Starship engaged the Defiant and
 KM>         the other captain was surprised that the Defiant had that
 KM>         armor. Apparently Sisko hadn't informed Star Fleet of the
 KM>         changes to the Defiant's specs. The man's definitely showing
 KM>         signs of paranoia when he doesn't even trust his own leaders. :)

 I had more of the impression that the ablative armor was installed under
 Starfleet auspices, but nobody bothered to tell the captain of the
 opposing starship. Which seems typical for any bureaucracy, govenment or
 industry, throughout all of human history. As far as I can determine.

 Ablative armor would add to the ships mass, requiring extra power to drive
 and manuver. Fortunately it just so happens that the Defiant has some
 extra power they weren't using.

Bob Klahn

... DO NOT ADJUST YOUR MIND - the fault is with reality.
 * Silver Xpress V4.02B03 RB10275

--- FLAME v1.1
 * Origin: Telnet toltbbs.com or call 313-854-6001, Boardwatch #55 (1:234/2)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 152 of 154
 From : Casey                               1:2624/610      .îí 10 .þí 96 04:01
 To   : Leman Russ
 Subj : outer limits
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: FastEcho 1.45a 8217
While lurking about unseen, Leman Russ spake thusly to Casey:

 LR> TOL is on Showtime.
 >:[

Thanks

--- Blue Wave/RA v2.20
 * Origin: The World's End BBS 914-298-0158 (1:2624/610)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 153 of 154
 From : Frank Swarbrick                     1:104/825       .óá 08 .þí 96 18:01
 To   : All
 Subj : Red Dwarf
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12  92-0022
Could someone post the words to the Red Dwarf theme song?

Thanks.

        Frank

... If you go to Z'ha'dum you will die.
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12
 * Origin: The Bailey Information Exchange BBS, 28.8k v.fc  (1:104/825.0)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 154 of 154
 From : Frank Swarbrick                     1:104/825       .óá 08 .þí 96 23:06
 To   : David Johnston
 Subj : Forever Knight
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12  92-0022
On 06-07-96  00:23, shipwrecked and comatose, David Johnston said:

 ->    Well, as a staunch science fiction fan ever since I could read,
 -> I'm a
 -> little embarrassed to bring THIS one up as it isn't strictly science
 -> fiction...but does/did anyone else out there watch "Forever Knight"?

 DJ> I watched up until the most recent season.  What I regret is that they
 DJ> never introduced any other supernatural elements.

Well, they did have one episode this year, called "Dead Of Night,"
that had ghosts or something...

        Frank

... Nick Knight - Taking a bite out of crime!
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12
 * Origin: The Bailey Information Exchange BBS, 28.8k v.fc  (1:104/825.0)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 1 of 135
 From : Leman Russ                          1:2250/7        .óá 08 .þí 96 15:09
 To   : Don Bach
 Subj : Re: The sf channel
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Thanx for the huge list of SF channel programs. Nice if you, really.

 I looked into primestar and found out I could not get my local programs on it,
anbd would need a regular antenna. Our local reception sucks, so unless a satsys
offered local progs too it's not much of an opt.

>:[

--- DLG Pro v1.0/DLGMail
 * Origin: Sage's Tower - Amiga - (618) 259-1844 (1:2250/7)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 2 of 135
 From : Jeff Hancock                        1:3600/7        .cê 09 .þí 96 21:06
 To   : Scott Royall
 Subj : B5: Fron the Great Maker'
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

SR>JMS's take on this: "At this point it will take an act of God to stop
SR>us."

And this is the man who writes in lines about characters breaking legs
or arms, and then they actually happen to the respective actors.  He
should know better. ;)

<looking upward> "Just kidding about that God part. No offense."

-=-
 * Crazy-J * "I'm never alone. My thoughts are always among the stars"

--- SLMAIL v3.5C  (#1540)
 * Origin: Robotech þ Lake City's Music*Demo BBS þ [904] 758*9477 (1:3600/7)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 3 of 135
 From : Joey Haven                          1:3654/5        .îí 10 .þí 96 05:10
 To   : Leman Russ
 Subj : Re: The sf channel
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: FastEcho 1.45a 7602

 -=> Quoting Leman Russ to Joey Haven <=-

 LR> I want the SF channel, but I have a gripe with it: It's soacking up
 LR> damn near every SF show around, leaving nothing but "Tuff ----" for
 LR> people who don;t have it. That may be capitalism, but its also kind of
 LR> inconsiderate and selfish. >:[

     Agreed. It appears the only correspondence cable companies will
     address is spam. At least that's what it took here, constant
     spamming to their [Summit Cable] internet address. I am not going
     to say try it but, if anybody should take it upon themselves to
     do so, it may work.
     îJoeyï


---
 * Origin: Programmers Paragon - Greensboro, NC (1:3654/5)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 4 of 135
 From : Joey Haven                          1:3654/5        .îí 10 .þí 96 05:14
 To   : Kay Shapero
 Subj : outer limits
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: FastEcho 1.45a 7602

 -=> Quoting Kay Shapero to Joey Haven <=-

 KS> I don't recall I'm afraid.  Nicolai was channel surfing and stopped on
 KS> a channel that had two people outdoors talking under an improbably
 KS> bright moon.  That in itself reminded me of the story; shortly
 KS> thereafter the dialogue removed all doubt.  So we watched the rest of
 KS> it.

     I see. Thanks anyway - I am sure I'll catch it in syndication.
     Our Fox affiliate is already showing it. Thankfully.

     îJoeyï


---
 * Origin: Programmers Paragon - Greensboro, NC (1:3654/5)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 5 of 135
 From : Joey Haven                          1:3654/5        .òp 11 .þí 96 00:54
 To   : Don Bach
 Subj : The sf channel
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: FastEcho 1.45a 7602

 -=> Quoting Don Bach to Leman Russ <=-

 DB> There are alternatives to your local cable service (Primestar, DSS,
 DB> and wireless cable).  Why put up with them?

     Apartment. When we buy a house I intend on getting a DSS system. <sigh>

     îJoeyï


---
 * Origin: Programmers Paragon - Greensboro, NC (1:3654/5)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 6 of 135
 From : Nicolai Shapero                     1:102/524       .ÿò 07 .þí 96 05:33
 To   : Todd Sullivan
 Subj : Robert A. Heinlein
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Jun 04 19:00>, Todd Sullivan (1:202/720.3) wrote to Lawrence E Dunlap:

 TS>Heinlein never wrote for TV.  In "Grumbles from the Grave", he
 TS>points out that he'd had it with Hollywood after all the problems
 TS>of turning "Destination Moon" into a movie, which never made it
 TS>to the screen, IIRC. Never took the bait again.

DESTINATION MOON _DID_ make it to the screen.  Not a bad movie, either.

-- Nicolai Shapero, the Mad Russian Sysop of StormGate Aerie

--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 7 of 135
 From : Nicolai Shapero                     1:102/524       .ÿò 07 .þí 96 05:35
 To   : Leman Russ
 Subj : Re: White star = the defiant
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Jun 03 05:41>, Leman Russ (1:2250/7) wrote to Nicolai Shapero:

 LR> I remember the ep "Obsession" too. 1 ounce of antimatter,
 LR>reacting with one ounce of matter, results in a 2 megaton energy
 LR>release, thereabouts, according to most scientific rules of
 LR>thumb.

We are talking about STAR TREK here, not reality.  I was talking about the way
things worked in the ST universe, not ours.

As to the Borg adapting, yes.  But the first "expeditions" in to the Borg ships
should have been run carrying demolition charges (big ones) in along with.

-- Nicolai Shapero, the Mad Russian Sysop of StormGate Aerie

--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 8 of 135
 From : Kay Shapero                         1:102/524       .ÿò 07 .þí 96 10:04
 To   : Leman Russ
 Subj : Re: ?
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Jun 03 05:38>, Leman Russ (1:2250/7) wrote to Kay Shapero:

 KS> There's also a FIDO B5 echo you may find of interest.

 LR> Too bad it's ran by a little **)(**&)(*&!!! who thinks he's a
 LR>cross between god and hitler...

ROFL!!!!  David Bolack!?  He Who Rarely Posts?  I think you've got it confused
with another echo - about the only time he makes an appearance is when some
idiot tries to start a StarTrek vs Babylon 5 flamewar (like you can't watch more
than one TV show).  Or, of course, the time some people took Susan's all too
untimely interrupted love for Talia as an excuse to start up that tired old
Permanent.Floating.Net.Homosexuality.Flamewar.  (I know he got letters asking
him to kick out that particular off topic argument - one of 'em was from me!)

Are you at all a fan of Babylon 5 btw?  It's perfectly on topic in this echo
goodness knows.  My only real problem with it is wondering if WB will have the
sense to produce all five seasons.  Wondering if I'll get to see the whole thing
is not the sort of suspense I prefer in my suspense fiction... :(

--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 9 of 135
 From : Bill Warren                         1:102/749       .ÿò 07 .þí 96 16:35
 To   : Leman Russ
 Subj : Re: STARSHIP TROOPERS
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

LR>   Yes, I noticed that about Heinlein too. His later works degenerating
LR>  into rambling intolerance. I reads the cat whpo walks thru walls, was
LR>  sickened by it and have not read and heinlein since.

But the early books are still there, and still good.

--- QuickBBS 2.80 GoldBase (Zeta-1)
 * Origin: Hooray For Hollywood * Los Angeles,CA -=- 213-653-7508 (1:102/749)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 10 of 135
 From : Bill Warren                         1:102/749       .óá 08 .þí 96 13:48
 To   : Todd Sullivan
 Subj : Re: Robert A. Heinlein
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

TS>  Heinlein never wrote for TV.  In "Grumbles from the Grave", he points
TS>  out that he'd had it with Hollywood after all the problems of turning
TS>  "Destination Moon" into a movie, which never made it to the screen,
TS>  IIRC. Never took the bait again.

Sorry, but you're mistaken.  He wrote quite a few episodes of a TV series that
never was sold; however, several of the episodes were filmed -- and a couple of
them were combined to make the feature film PROJECT: MOONBASE.  And he wrote for
television again later on, too, including a major science-fact project, but
these were also never produced.  And he >sold< (or rather optioned) MANY of his
novels and short stories to Hollywood for movie projects that, again, never
materialized.
    Some of his unproduced TV scripts are included in the Heinlein archives at
UC Santa Cruz.

--- QuickBBS 2.80 GoldBase (Zeta-1)
 * Origin: Hooray For Hollywood * Los Angeles,CA -=- 213-653-7508 (1:102/749)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 11 of 135
 From : Bill Warren                         1:102/749       .óá 08 .þí 96 13:49
 To   : Bill Clements
 Subj : Re: ROBERT A. HEINLEIN
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

BC>  Heinlein was a self admitted commercial author who is reported to
BC>  have written under as many as 100 pseudonyms.

Anson McDonald was his best-known pseudonym, but I doubt that he really used as
many as 100.

BC>  For a number of years I have wished to examine the above
BC>  mentioned work. Does anyone have access to the list of pseudonyms
BC>  used by RAH?

You might check with UC Santa Cruz.

--- QuickBBS 2.80 GoldBase (Zeta-1)
 * Origin: Hooray For Hollywood * Los Angeles,CA -=- 213-653-7508 (1:102/749)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 12 of 135
 From : Bill Warren                         1:102/749       .óá 08 .þí 96 13:51
 To   : Nicolai Shapero
 Subj : Re: Robert A. Heinlein
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

TS>Heinlein never wrote for TV.  In "Grumbles from the Grave", he
TS>points out that he'd had it with Hollywood after all the problems
TS>of turning "Destination Moon" into a movie, which never made it
TS>to the screen, IIRC. Never took the bait again.

NS>  DESTINATION MOON _DID_ make it to the screen.  Not a bad movie,
NS>  either.

And, as I said above, there's also PROJECT: MOONBASE.  What's odd about what he
says in "Grumbles" is that at the time of DESTINATION MOON, he was very HAPPY
with the way everything went.

--- QuickBBS 2.80 GoldBase (Zeta-1)
 * Origin: Hooray For Hollywood * Los Angeles,CA -=- 213-653-7508 (1:102/749)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 13 of 135
 From : Nicolai Shapero                     1:102/524       .cê 09 .þí 96 20:07
 To   : Leman Russ
 Subj : Re: WHITE STAR = THE DEFI
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Jun 06 03:59>, Leman Russ (1:2250/7) wrote to Nicolai Shapero:

 NS> -- Nicolai Shapero, the Mad Russian Sysop of StormGate Aerie

 NS> --- msged 2.06
 NS>  * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)
 NS> SEEN-BY: 13/13 75 102/735 104/821 105/103 330 107/411 109/1200
 NS> 123/16 129/11
 LR> NSSEEN-BY: 133/707 138/146 140/23 153/800 920 157/586 167/90
 LR>200/204
 NS> 201/505
 NS> SEEN-BY: 203/992 204/200 206/2711 209/720 2/801 234/100 239/1
 NS> 245/6910

 LR> I notivce that starfleet must have solved the dominions ability
 LR>to shoot thru standard sheilds too.
>:[

Please do NOT quote everything.  I have done so, above, simply to point out to
you that you do NOT need to quote and display the SEEN-BY's and the Origin
statements in messages that YOU quote...

Thank you for your cooperation,

-- Nicolai Shapero, Moderator of the SFFAN echo


--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

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 Msg  : 14 of 135
 From : Nicolai Shapero                     1:102/524       .cê 09 .þí 96 20:10
 To   : Brandon Wolgast
 Subj : Space Above & Beyond
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Jun 05 12:43>, Brandon Wolgast (1:363/281) wrote to Kay Shapero:

 BW>I can't believe it was cancelled, it was a good show.

Some episodes were good, and some were absolutely awful.  The basic problem with
using a large number of different scriptwriters with differing talents.  But the
last episode title..."Tell our moms, we done our best..."
OOOOUUUUCCCCCHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

-- Nicolai Shapero, the Mad Russian Sysop of StormGate Aerie

--- msged 2.06
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Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 15 of 135
 From : Eric Fishbein                       1:322/360       .îí 10 .þí 96 00:34
 To   : Mark Jones
 Subj : LOIS AND CLARK
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 >    No, the real reason is an inability (or unwillingness) to alter
 > the
 > series in any meaningful way.  Lois knows his secret.  She is in
 > danger almost constantly.  Aside from going through a ceremony and
 > wearing rings, what difference would their being married make?
 > Almost
 > none (except that the characters would be happy--and we can't have
 > that).  The only difference is that the "sexual tension" would
 > vanish
 > because they can (legally) slake their passions.
 >    But happily coupled couples are anathema on television.
 > Therefore,
 > they will never truly get married.

        On the Lois & Clark website they said that they were in fact getting
married "for real" in one of the first few episodes next season, no tricks, no
exceptions.  I beleive it, because the season finale this season broke with the
continuity of the comics in a BIG way, and up untill this point has been pretty
faithful.
        Geez, even Spiderman has MJ, you'd think it was time that L&C hooked up
for good.  60 years is a long engagement...

--- FLAME v1.0/b
 * Origin: Add TSX-BBS, The Swiss Army Knife For TBBS! 508.429.8385 (1:322/360)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 16 of 135
 From : Eric Fishbein                       1:322/360       .îí 10 .þí 96 00:40
 To   : David Johnston
 Subj : INCONSISTENT SHADOWS.
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 > I often suspect that rather than increasing, it is leveling out.
 > After
 > all, in the last thirty years, I haven't noticed anything more than
 > trivial improvements apart from the field of cybernetics...at least
 > in
 > day-to-day living.  As Calvin noted, we're almost in the 21st
 > century.
 > Where are the jet-packs, et cetera?

        Geez, where have you been?  In the last thirty years there has been such
vast technological improvement it would be hard to list them all.  I'll just
mention one that you're using right now: The microprocessor.  'Nuff said. ;)

--- FLAME v1.0/b
 * Origin: Add TSX-BBS, The Swiss Army Knife For TBBS! 508.429.8385 (1:322/360)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 17 of 135
 From : Vicki Nichols                       1:114/212       .îí 10 .þí 96 19:05
 To   : Leman Russ
 Subj : Re: Forever Knight
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 LR> Yeah, vicki, I watched it until the ruined it by
 LR> killing schanke, omaha and "zhah-net". After thay
 LR> brought in the token black and the needless pieces of
 LR> pretty meat (Vachoun or whatever) I said Hasta la vista
 LR> baby.

      Lord, I must have ONLY SEEN THE LAST SEASON!  The first one I saw was the
two-parter involving Skanke getting blown up in the plane.  Vachon is one of my
personal favorites, though - guess they were aiming for the female audience.


--- Maximus/2 3.00
 * Origin: ElseWhere (1:114/212)

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 Msg  : 18 of 135
 From : Vicki Nichols                       1:114/212       .îí 10 .þí 96 19:06
 To   : David Johnston
 Subj : Forever Knight
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

->    Well, as a staunch science fiction fan ever since I could read,
-> I'm a
-> little embarrassed to bring THIS one up as it isn't strictly science
-> fiction...but does/did anyone else out there watch "Forever Knight"?

 DJ> I watched up until the most recent season.  What I regret is that they
 DJ> never introduced any other supernatural elements.

     Evidently I have only seen the last season.  How depressing!

     They did bring up other supernatural elements in the next-to-the-last
episode, with LaCroix's daughter who eventually resulted in the demise of Vachon
and the female whose name escapes me.

     When I was young, the distinction between science fiction and fantasy was
that science fiction would start with one "big lie" as the premise, be that
faster than light travel, time travel, colonizing of other planets - if more
than one "lie" was involved, it was considered fantasy.  Guess they were trying
to avoid asking us to believe too much at once.

     I guess I am going to have to find someone with the S.F. channel and BEG
them to tape the other seasons for me!


--- Maximus/2 3.00
 * Origin: ElseWhere (1:114/212)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 19 of 135
 From : Vicki Nichols                       1:114/212       .îí 10 .þí 96 19:11
 To   : Frank Swarbrick
 Subj : Forever Knight
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
     Hey, thank you!  I have learned more from you in one letter than I knew up
to now about the series.  I have evidently only seen the third season.

 FS> Don't you remember Nick's angst about losing Schanke (his partner) and
 FS> Cohen (his boss) in that plane crash?

     Yes, I do - it was the first one I ever saw.  Since they introduced him to
his partner and mentioned something about his being "allergic to sunlight", I
figured it was a pilot.  It explained and introduced a lot.

 FS> seasons), also played by a different person.  Nick's friend the
 FS> coroner was a man in this one.

      I liked the touch of a female coroner with the hots for Knight.

 FS> The SciFi Channel is supposed to show the first and second seasons at
 FS> some point, but not perhaps until 1997.  Can't wait!  The only things
 FS> I've season from season one were the flashbacks in "Last Knight."
 FS> Nick looked pretty "tuff" back then!  Leather jacket, really butch
 FS> hair.  Interesting.

      Well, I just wrote a letter to the local station that airs the series,
thanking them for it and giving them my demographics - I'm in several groups
that they aim for.  I did a handwritten letter as it's been my experience that
they get a lot more attention than e-mail or printer letters.

     It looks like the next letter I write (well, okay, maybe so they don't
think I am the only one watching I will sign my dog's name or something!) I will
request the two previous seasons.  I did ask them why in the hell I had to find
it by accident - they give no promos at all for it, and the TV guide only just
started listing a brief synopsis each week.

     Thanks, Frank, for taking the time to write.


--- Maximus/2 3.00
 * Origin: ElseWhere (1:114/212)

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 Msg  : 20 of 135
 From : David Johnston                      1:342/14        .îí 10 .þí 96 01:42
 To   : Don Godfrey
 Subj : Space:  Above And Beyond!
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
-> The two part show that revealed the Chigs Identity was excellent but
-> I think that they may have jumped the gun as was done with BattleStar
-> Galactica previously.  I am afraid that they may have helped kill
-> themselves in the long run even though they have left a lot of "open"
-> ends...(Wang, Damphousse & Vansen, McQueen,  etc).

There is no long run.  And Wang isn't a loose end.  His fate was rather
thoroughly determined.

--- PCBoard (R) v15.21/100
 * Origin: Freddy's Place - Edm. AB - 33.6K (403) 413-3460 (1:342/14)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 21 of 135
 From : Mike Sheehan                        1:104/138       .ÿò 07 .þí 96 18:43
 To   : All
 Subj : ANALOG collectors
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Does anyone out there collect ANALOG sci-fi mags?  Specifically from the
1970's-early 1980's?  I'm looking for a partik ish.

 * Origin: Ds9 BBS home of the trekkers (303)494-8447 (1:104/138)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 22 of 135
 From : Don Bach                            1:3632/65       .îí 10 .þí 96 18:18
 To   : Nicolai Shapero
 Subj : Re: outer limits
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 NS> And
 NS> IMNSHO, SFX will NEVER make up for a bad script...

Mega dittos to that, my Russian-American friend!  I don't have Showtime and from
what I've heard, I'm not missing anything!

Sci-Fi channel's "Planetary Premere" this week was "Within the Rock" with Xander
Berkley and Bradford Tatum.  This movie definitely held my interest.  An
asteriod ("Galilelo's Child") is on a path to impact earth.  A mining ship is
dispatched to drill through the rock and place explosives to destroy it.  A
woman engineer working for the mining company has designed the demolition.  She
has been dispatched to direct the unionized crew working the mining equipment at
the asteriod.  The earth military is just waiting for this project to fail, so
they can use their weapons to destroy the rock.  However, engineering studies
have determined this will result in the earth being impacted with large pieces
of the rock.

The crew's explosive expert is the only other woman on the rock.  She shoots her
explosives from a gun and she is a great shot!  The explosive devices drill
themselves in and they explode via wireless remote control.  She constantly has
to fight off the attentions of the male crew members.

The mining crew is secretly keep all of the platinum they find.  They are
disapointed at the little amount of platinum they have mined until the drill bit
runs into an obstruction.  It appears to be a box formed of platinum.  There are
a lot of bones and some unknown writing surrounding the box.  The engineer
records and photographs and be-grudging lets the miners get the platinum (time
is of the essence and she sets a time limit).

It turns out the box was a prison for a monster who harvests humanoids by
killing them, then burying them.  It feeds on rotting flesh.

The monster kills all but 4 of the crew (engineer escapes).  However, enough
tunnels have been cut and enough explosives have been laid to change the path of
the rock so it misses earth.

Don

--- Maximus 3.01
 * Origin: No Regrets, Clinton, MS (601)924-8247 9P-5A (1:3632/65)

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 Msg  : 23 of 135
 From : Scott Royall                        1:106/357       .òp 11 .þí 96 08:43
 To   : Jeff Hancock
 Subj : B5: Fron the Great Maker'
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

-=> Quoting Jeff Hancock to Scott Royall <=-


 JH> And this is the man who writes in lines about characters breaking legs
 JH> or arms, and then they actually happen to the respective actors.  He
 JH> should know better. ;)

You DO have a point.  Maybe I should remind him? :)
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.21 [NR]
 * Origin: Conch (1:106/357)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 24 of 135
 From : Don Godfrey                         1:203/125       .òp 11 .þí 96 06:28
 To   : Earl Green
 Subj : Re: SPACE:  ABOVE AND BEYOND!
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

EG>   I'm afraid that it's already been chopped; any recent "new" episodes
EG>   that have been shown were just those shows that were "in the can"
EG>   prior to the cancellation. 8-(

Dang!  TV finally gets a show on that I am into and they give it the
ax...I guess that I not be watching much anymore.  I am all "TV"'d out on
Star Trek re-runs!

|04-D|12on |14Go|15df|07re|08y-

--- GEcho 1.00
 * Origin: |12Space & Sci Fi BBs |11-=> |09[916] 684-6897 (1:203/125)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 25 of 135
 From : Frank Glover                        1:2613/477      .îí 10 .þí 96 21:10
 To   : Bob Klahn
 Subj : Re: INCONSISTENT SHADOWS.
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

BK>   advancement. In every case I see the actual flowering of culture
BK>  seems to
BK>   be attached to an increase in communication with outside cultures.
BK>  Seems
BK>   to me access to an interstellar society of vastly different cultures
BK>   should result in an explosion of knowledge.
BK>
BK>   That, BTW, is my objection to the "Prime Directive" as adhered to by
BK>  ST in
BK>   all it's incarnations. Essentially it would tend to stifle learning
BK>  and
BK>   development. Esp for those considered "Inferior."

   `Inferior' is a relative thing, of course. Beings like the Q don't give away
much to the Federation, either. However, in the ST universe there is still some
trading in goods and information among unequal cultures. (Remember Harry Mudd's
reference to: "....making available certain valuable patents to struggling young
civilizations across the galaxy.") And civilizations will rarely be exactly
equal, but the threshold for the Federation seems to be the attainment of warp
travel. One day they may have to set a higher standard, or it may be like giving
atomic power to a civilization, merely because they mastered fire.

   Even the beings in `2001' decided we wouldn't be worth another look until we
gained the ability to reach our Moon, and dig up their monolith. But once
revealed, they still remained mysterious and distant.

    And how much do we *want* to accept uncritically from ET's? In David Brin's
Uplift Universe, Earthers were notorious for continuing to conduct their own
research and exploration, rather than rely on the Galactic Library....

   Frank


--- QuickBBS 2.80 GoldBase (Zeta-1.9A)
 * Origin: The Matrix Data Bank BBS, Rochester, Ny (1:2613/477)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 26 of 135
 From : Frank Glover                        1:2613/477      .îí 10 .þí 96 21:17
 To   : Bob Klahn
 Subj : Re: WHITE STAR = THE DEFI
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

BK>   NS>> operation), but the Dominion appears to have a LOT of the
BK>  little
BK>   NS>> buggers...
BK>
BK>   An accurate description AFAIKS.
BK>
BK>   In the one episode I saw with a battle between a conventional
BK>  starship and
BK>   the Jem Hadadar, the starship shields seemed ineffective against the
BK>  Jem
BK>   Hadadar weaponry. A point worthy of consideration, IMO. Seems
BK>  fighting a
BK>   bunch of "ducks" requires rethinking strategy.

   True. The Federation and its adversaries seem to prefer engagements between
medium-to-large ships, rather than filling the sky with fighters as in the Star
Wars, or the Battlestar Galactia universes. This is new stuff to Starfleet, but
someone decided it might be the best way to overwhelm a Borg ship,and the
Defiant was their first step in that new tactical direction.

   Plus, (again with an anology to Pacific Naval experience) the Jem'haddar are
also willing to make a kamakaze attack on a larger target, even when it's
withdrawing from the engagement.

   Frank


--- QuickBBS 2.80 GoldBase (Zeta-1.9A)
 * Origin: The Matrix Data Bank BBS, Rochester, Ny (1:2613/477)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 27 of 135
 From : David Johnston                      1:342/14        .òp 11 .þí 96 00:34
 To   : Bob Klahn
 Subj : Inconsistent Shadows.
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
-> DJ> Of course there's no particular reason to think that the Mimbarii
-> DJ> haven't advanced significantly, although they are obviously a
-> more DJ> conservative species than humanity.
-> I would think, if their starting point was the capability of
-> interstellar warfare, a thousand years advancement would result in
-> technology beyond our comprehension.

The Mimbari do have technology beyond our comprehension.  They are also,
quite obviously plateaued in their development.

--- PCBoard (R) v15.21/100
 * Origin: Freddy's Place - Edm. AB - 33.6K (403) 413-3460 (1:342/14)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 28 of 135
 From : Nicolai Shapero                     1:102/524       .îí 10 .þí 96 05:54
 To   : Don Godfrey
 Subj : Space:  Above and Beyond!
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Jun 09 06:52>, Don Godfrey (1:203/125) wrote to All:

 DG>This has by far got to be the best Sci Fi TV Show that I have
 DG>seen in a long
 DG>time and I hope that it does NOT get cancelled!

After a rather dismal season (ratings were really poor) and extremely high costs
(something around $2 million per episode, as I understand), Fox has pulled the
plug on S:AAB.  And, considering the title of the last episode (the second of
the two parter that you seemed to enjoy so much), it would appear that the
producers knew about it some time ago.  (The title, in case you didn't catch it,
was "Tell our moms, we done our best").

-- Nicolai Shapero, the Mad Russian Sysop of StormGate Aerie

--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 29 of 135
 From : Brion Lienhart                      1:213/700.2     .òp 11 .þí 96 13:11
 To   : Henry Triplett
 Subj : Lois and Clark
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On Thu Jun 06, Henry Triplett said to GLENN MISZTAL:

 GM> Did anyone watch Lois and Clark get "married" last night? Well, Clark
 GM> married a  *CLONE* of Lois! I for one am sick and tired of shocker
 GM> plot-lines like this...  Lois and Clark have just broken off their
 GM> engagement in the comics and Clark is  started to date a Mermaid...(No
 GM> lie! Her name is Lori Lemaris 'L.L.' -  typical.) Seeing Mulder blown
 GM> up, was enough, but this season shocker is really  bad....
 -HT>
 -HT>A mermaid?!?  That's a new one! (I think.)

It was new back in the fourties or fifties the first time Superman dated a
mermaid named Lori Lemaris.




--- QM v1.31
 * Origin: Ministry of Peace - Carson City, NV (1:213/700.2)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 30 of 135
 From : Brion Lienhart                      1:213/700.2     .òp 11 .þí 96 13:12
 To   : Leman Russ
 Subj : Re: Advanced Tech.
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On Thu Jun 06, Leman Russ said to Eric Fishbein:

 -LR>The mimbs may have reached the acme of data storage tech a long time
 -LR>ago,and had no reasont o improve.

 -LR> I caught another glitch in that ep, now that you made me think of it.
 -LR>That old tape had a segment where the defiant..er white star moved in
 -LR>to save B4 from the shadow attack, but...that was an external view.
 -LR>WHo took it? YAB5I....

One of the security cameras. They said that before they ran the tape.




--- QM v1.31
 * Origin: Ministry of Peace - Carson City, NV (1:213/700.2)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 31 of 135
 From : Vicki Nichols                       1:114/212       .òp 11 .þí 96 19:06
 To   : Mark Jones
 Subj : PINKY AND THE BRAIN
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Mark Jones wrote in a message to Tony Sayger:

MJ> On (23 May 96) Tony Sayger wrote to Leman Russ...

 RP> The fall schedule for the WB network was in USA Today, and does
 RP> not include Pinky and the Brain!

 TS> I don't see how this belongs in this echo.

MJ>   What, you don't think gene-spliced lab mice plotting to
MJ> overthrow the earth count as science fiction?  What about
MJ> the vast array of super-scientific (not to mention
MJ> PSEUDO-scientific) schemes Brain employs in his relentless
MJ> quest for world domination?

     And let's not forget the role of the white mice in commissioning the
creation of the Earth, as outlined in "The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy."






--- timEd/2 1.00
 * Origin: ElseWhere,602-492-0368 1:114/212,81:301/2,142:150/114 (1:114/212)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 32 of 135
 From : Owen E. Oulton                      1:243/45        .òp 11 .þí 96 02:23
 To   : Frank Swarbrick
 Subj : Red Dwarf
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 FS> Could someone post the words to the Red Dwarf theme song?

 FS> Thanks.

It's cold outside,
There's no kind of atmosphere.
I'm all alone, more or less.
Let me fly,
Far away from here.
Fun, fun, fun,
In the sun, sun, sun...

I want to lie,
Shipwrecked and comatose,
Drinking fresh mango juice.
Goldfish shoals,
Nibbling at my toes,
Fun, fun, fun,
In the sun, sun, sun.
Fun, fun, fun,
In the sun, sun, sun...

CFN, O

--- Maximus 2.01wb
 * Origin: Pandora's Box, Ottawa, Ont. 613-829-1209 (1:243/45)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 33 of 135
 From : Frank Glover                        1:2613/477      .òp 11 .þí 96 20:14
 To   : Mike Sheehan
 Subj : Re: ANALOG collectors
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

MS>  Does anyone out there collect ANALOG sci-fi mags?  Specifically from
MS>  the
MS>  1970's-early 1980's?  I'm looking for a partik ish.

   Which one?

   Frank


--- QuickBBS 2.80 GoldBase (Zeta-1.9A)
 * Origin: The Matrix Data Bank BBS, Rochester, Ny (1:2613/477)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 34 of 135
 From : Marco Catalano                      2:2802/152.3    .cê 09 .þí 96 14:54
 To   : Kay Shapero
 Subj : Space Above & Beyond
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Hello Kay!


Sunday June 02 1996, Kay Shapero writes to All:

 KS> Whoof!  I guess they DID get the word about cancellation before they
 KS> filmed that one...  And what a title "Tell our moms we did our best".
 KS> Ouch.

Didn't the previous episodes name was :And if we die and they lay us to rest?

Havn't seen those two yet, Kay.

 KS> Not to mention the possible tweak of the producerial noses when it's
 KS> mostly the mistake of a suit that gets everybody blown to bits.  Bye
 KS> Wildcards - it was fun watching.

Did they all die??
But if they did, they _DID_ took as many Chigs as possible with them?


Greetings from Marco
BYE!



... Take my advice, I don't use it anyway.

--- FMail/386 1.02
 * Origin: Co-Sysyop Rakker BBS. Capelle, The Netherlands (2:2802/152.3)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 35 of 135
 From : Don Bach                            1:3632/65       .òp 11 .þí 96 18:13
 To   : Leman Russ
 Subj : Re: The sf channel
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 LR> Thanx for the huge list of SF channel programs. Nice if you, really.

No problem!

 LR>  I looked into primestar and found out I could not get
 LR> my local programs on it, anbd would need a regular
 LR> antenna. Our local reception sucks, so unless a satsys
 LR> offered local progs too it's not much of an opt.

Here, we also have a local company called "TruVision".  They are a microwave
wireless cable.  But I live where, for some odd reason I can't get their signal,
even when the antenna is placed near the top of my tallest tree.  They also
offer the Sci-Fi Channel as well as local programming.  TruVision was my first
choice for a programming provider.  I believe they are offering franchises to
set up similar systems, so if you have some capital....

If you like in an area of bad broadcast receiption, PrimeStar can supply you
with ABC, CBS, NBC, PBS and Fox, whichever doesn't come in well.  All except Fox
are in Eastern Time Zone.  The Fox station is in the Pacific Time Zone.  "Well"
assumes you've tried with at least a rooftop antenna.

Some DSS systems now have integrated broadcast antennas.

We probably need to go to netmail to discuss this further.

Don

--- Maximus 3.01
 * Origin: No Regrets, Clinton, MS (601)924-8247 9P-5A (1:3632/65)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 36 of 135
 From : Don Bach                            1:3632/65       .òp 11 .þí 96 18:51
 To   : Glenn Misztal
 Subj : Star Trek Resurrections...
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 GM> OK.... I have what is (supposedly) a plot sysnopsis for
 GM> the next Star Trek movie...

 GM> If anyone is
 GM> interested in me uploading this here or in any of the
 GM> other Message areas....let me know....

Please upload it here in this message area.

Thanks,

Don


--- Maximus 3.01
 * Origin: No Regrets, Clinton, MS (601)924-8247 9P-5A (1:3632/65)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 37 of 135
 From : David Little                        1:106/7315      .òp 11 .þí 96 07:53
 To   : Frank Swarbrick
 Subj : Red Dwarf
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
-=< Frank Swarbrick used the Jedi Mind Trick on me!>=-

 FS> Could someone post the words to the Red Dwarf theme song?

 FS> Thanks.

 FS> Frank

        This is from the Red Dwarf FAQ maintained by Patrick M. Berry
(pat@perry.Cary.NC.US)

------------------------------

Subject: What are the lyrics to the theme song?

  It's cold outside, there's no kind of atmosphere
  I'm all alone, more or less
  Let me fly far away from here
  Fun, fun, fun in the sun, sun, sun

  I want to lie shipwrecked and comatose
  Drinking fresh mango juice
  Goldfish shoals nibbling at my toes  *
  Fun, fun, fun in the sun, sun, sun
  Fun, fun, fun in the sun, sun, sun

  * There has been much debate over this line -- it is not sung very
    clearly, and many fans think it is simply "Goldfish *are* nibbling."
    However, in the fourth series episode "Meltdown," the end theme is
    performed by "Elvis" (Clayton Mark), and the word "shoals" is more
    distinct.  Also, fans who have seen the sheet music for the song
    report that the lyrics do read "shoals."  A "shoal" is a school of
    fish.

------------------------------

                                        -=The DoLittle 8-)=-


... "I *have* taken the astronavigation exams... Nine times."
--- Blue Wave/DOS v2.30 [NR]
 * Origin: The Wizards Realm BBS 1-713-946-7315 1:106/7315 (1:106/7315)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 38 of 135
 From : Frank Swarbrick                     1:104/825       .îí 10 .þí 96 20:43
 To   : David Johnston
 Subj : Re: Advanced Tech.
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12  92-0022
On 06-09-96  00:49, shipwrecked and comatose, David Johnston said:

 -> The mimbs may have reached the acme of data storage tech a long time
 -> ago,and ha no reasont o improve.
 ->
 -> I caught another glitch in that ep, now that you made me think of it.
 -> That old tape had a segment where the defiant..er white star moved in
 -> to save B4 from th shadow attack, but...that was an external view.
 -> WHo took it? YAB5I....

 DJ> Why...the Vorlons of course.

As they stated, it was taken by the great machine on Epsilon 3.

        Frank

... No one can hear when you're Screaming in Digital!
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12
 * Origin: The Bailey Information Exchange BBS, 28.8k v.fc  (1:104/825.0)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 39 of 135
 From : Brion Lienhart                      1:213/700.2     .pä 12 .þí 96 11:08
 To   : Vicki Nichols
 Subj : PINKY AND THE BRAIN
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On Tue Jun 11, Vicki Nichols said to Mark Jones:

 TS> I don't see how this belongs in this echo.

MJ>   What, you don't think gene-spliced lab mice plotting to
MJ> overthrow the earth count as science fiction?  What about
MJ> the vast array of super-scientific (not to mention
MJ> PSEUDO-scientific) schemes Brain employs in his relentless
MJ> quest for world domination?

 -VN>     And let's not forget the role of the white mice in commissioning
 -VN>the creation of the Earth, as outlined in "The Hitchhiker's Guide to
 -VN>the Galaxy."

They just had my favorite episode of P&TB last sunday, the one where they're in
Acmeshita Labs, and Brain turns Pinky into Pinkzilla, so Brain can save the city
from Pinkzilla.
"Haloo, I'm on a rampage. Narf."



--- QM v1.31
 * Origin: Ministry of Peace - Carson City, NV (1:213/700.2)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 40 of 135
 From : Leman Russ                          1:2250/7        .òp 11 .þí 96 04:52
 To   : Frank Swarbrick
 Subj : Re: Red Dwarf
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
I might be able to someday. I have them on a disk. The theme was written out in
the second issue of miggybits, an excellent Amiga diskmag. I might be able to
write the theme down and type it in for you.

>:[

--- DLG Pro v1.0/DLGMail
 * Origin: Sage's Tower - Amiga - (618) 259-1844 (1:2250/7)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 41 of 135
 From : Glenn Shaheen                       1:3600/7        .òp 11 .þí 96 13:07
 To   : Frank Swarbrick
 Subj : Red Dwarf
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.GMD: 1:396/1

FS>Could someone post the words to the Red Dwarf theme song?

FS>Thanks.

        It's cold outside
        There's no kind of atmosphere
        I'm all alone
        more or less
        Let me fly
        far away from here
        fun, fun, fun
        in the sun, sun, sun
        I want to lie
        shipwrecked and comatose
        drinking fresh
        mango juice
        Goldfish shoals
        nipping at my toes
        fun fun fun
        in the sun sun sun
        fun fun fun
        in the sun sun sun

-=-
 * OLX 2.2 * "Ed, go see who's at the door." -Last words at R&E's BBS

--- SLMAIL v3.5C  (#1540)
 * Origin: Robotech þ Lake City's Music*Demo BBS þ [904] 758*9477 (1:3600/7)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 42 of 135
 From : David Johnston                      1:342/14        .pä 12 .þí 96 01:03
 To   : Vicki Nichols
 Subj : Forever Knight
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
->    They did bring up other supernatural elements in the
-> next-to-the-last
-> episode, with LaCroix's daughter who eventually resulted in the
-> demise of Vacho and the female whose name escapes me.

What supernatural elements would those be?


->    When I was young, the distinction between science fiction and
-> fantasy was
-> that science fiction would start with one "big lie" as the premise,
-> be that faster than light travel, time travel, colonizing of other
-> planets - if more than one "lie" was involved, it was considered
-> fantasy.  Guess they were trying to avoid asking us to believe too
-> much at once.

Thing is, "Supernatural 'monsters' exist" isn't much more of a lie than
"vampires exist".  In fact, what I have trouble believing, is the idea
that vampires exist secretly, but werewolves don't.

--- PCBoard (R) v15.21/100
 * Origin: Freddy's Place - Edm. AB - 33.6K (403) 413-3460 (1:342/14)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 43 of 135
 From : Brandon Wolgast                     1:363/281       .òp 11 .þí 96 11:00
 To   : Don Godfrey
 Subj : Space:  Above And Beyond!
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE/32 1.2

DG>This has by far got to be the best Sci Fi TV Show that I have seen in a long
DG>time and I hope that it does NOT get cancelled!

DG>It is very well done and is not a "clean" Science Fiction as many others
DG>are.  It reminds me of the Aliens movies in a way but is unique in its own
DG>rights.

DG>The two part show that revealed the Chigs Identity was excellent but I think
DG>that they may have jumped the gun as was done with BattleStar Galactica
DG>previously.  I am afraid that they may have helped kill themselves in the
DG>long run even though they have left a lot of "open" ends...(Wang,
DG>Damphousse & Vansen, McQueen,  etc).

Sorry to say, but I'm pretty sure it was cancelled.  I do agree, I
really enjoyed it, especially the later episodes.

As for open ends. I think if it had come back for a season 2, we would
have only seen the "two survivors." Wang is dead and gone, that was
apparent. And even if Vansen(my favorite) and Damphousse are alive
they would not have been back for at least half-way through second
season. I mean, in a previous episode they left over 2000 people on a
planet, I doubt they are going to go back and do a huge search for just
two people, perhaps they would be in the episodes but not fighting or
with the others just kinda trying to survive. As for McQueen, the speech
at the end pretty much seemed to say "Well, he's gone too for a long
time at least."

Anyway , I think it is gone for good, but I'm glad I recorded the final
three episodes, I hope someone else picks it up.

***
 * OLX 2.1 * "Are you ready for some football!!" -Tom Servo

--- Use the FORCE!!!
 * Origin: Feduberator * STAR WARS Support * (407)381-2798 (1:363/281)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 44 of 135
 From : Bill Warren                         1:102/749       .òp 11 .þí 96 16:41
 To   : Lawrence E Dunlap
 Subj : Heinlein
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

LE>      I see that RAH's disgust with *Destination: Moon* was short lived
LE>  but when rejected the second time it held until f/x improvements made
LE>  his movies very sensible. Might have been planning that profits from
LE>  his movie options would sustain Mrs. Heinlein's remaining years

That's possible.  I know that RAH often did option his works to films --
STRANGER was optioned many times over the years -- and that would be a steady
and reasonable source of income.  People tend to forget that it wasn't until the
late 60s and early 70s that SF books started turning up on best-seller lists.
Prior to that, no one made much money, not even Ray Bradbury.
But he once said he put all his daughters through college on MARTIAN CHRONICLES
option money.

--- QuickBBS 2.80 GoldBase (Zeta-1)
 * Origin: Hooray For Hollywood * Los Angeles,CA -=- 213-653-7508 (1:102/749)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 45 of 135
 From : Kay Shapero                         1:102/524       .pä 12 .þí 96 08:05
 To   : Don Godfrey
 Subj : Re: SPACE:  ABOVE AND BEYOND!
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Jun 11 06:28>, Don Godfrey (1:203/125) wrote to Earl Green:

 DG>Dang!  TV finally gets a show on that I am into and they give it
 DG>the ax...I guess that I not be watching much anymore.  I am all
 DG>"TV"'d out on Star Trek re-runs!

Not watching Babylon 5?  Give it a try - it may be hard to figure out at first
given as by this time you've missed the first 2 1/2 years of the story, but it's
pretty good.

--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 46 of 135
 From : Henry Triplett                      1:106/564       .åò 13 .þí 96 08:30
 To   : BRION LIENHART
 Subj : Lois and Clark
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

-=> Quoting Brion Lienhart to Henry Triplett <=-

 -HT>A mermaid?!?  That's a new one! (I think.)

 BL> It was new back in the fourties or fifties the first time Superman
 BL> dated a  mermaid named Lori Lemaris.

The more things change...  You'd think after 60-plus years of searching
and thinking, Superman could make up his mind as to which L.L. he would
spend his life in celibate bliss with.

Henry


... I'm going over to the morgue to cheer up. - Crow T. Robot

___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20 [NR]
--- GEcho 1.00
 * Origin: Eat Flaming Death    Houston Texas    713-447-1927 (1:106/564)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 47 of 135
 From : Bob Klahn                           1:234/2         .pä 12 .þí 96 11:23
 To   : Frank Glover
 Subj : INCONSISTENT SHADOWS.
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
BK>>   That, BTW, is my objection to the "Prime Directive" as adhered to by
BK>>  ST in
BK>>   all it's incarnations. Essentially it would tend to stifle learning
BK>>  and
BK>>   development. Esp for those considered "Inferior."
 FG>
 FG>    `Inferior' is a relative thing, of course. Beings like the Q don't
 FG>    give away much to the Federation, either. However, in the ST

 I wonder if an being like Q *could* give the federation much they were
 capable of accepting. Besides, the Feds tend to not give anything to just
 about anybody, Voyager esp. Dealing with Q is like us dealing with
 Neanderthrals. Voyager won't even tell the other star traveling races how to
 build replicators.

 FG>    universe there is still some trading in goods and information among
 FG>    unequal cultures. (Remember Harry Mudd's reference to: "....making
 FG>    available certain valuable patents to struggling young civilizations

 That was in TOS, the rules seem to have tightened.

 FG>    across the galaxy.") And civilizations will rarely be exactly equal,
 FG>    but the threshold for the Federation seems to be the attainment of
 FG>    warp travel. One day they may have to set a higher standard, or it
 FG>    may be like giving atomic power to a civilization, merely because
 FG>    they mastered fire.

 Actually, that's not unreasonable. To go from fire to nuclear power could be
 done in one generation with proper education. Knowledge wise that is. The
 physical plant required might take more. Then again, maybe not.

 FG>    Even the beings in `2001' decided we wouldn't be worth another look
 FG>    until we gained the ability to reach our Moon, and dig up their
 FG>    monolith. But once revealed, they still remained mysterious and
 FG>    distant.

 Their concern, however, was strictly their own purposes.

 FG>     And how much do we *want* to accept uncritically from ET's? In
 FG>     David Brin's Uplift Universe, Earthers were notorious for
 FG>     continuing to conduct their own research and exploration, rather
 FG>     than rely on the Galactic Library....

 Otherwise know as "reinventing the wheel." Sorta like the Apache deciding to
 invent the rifle for themselves. Instead of nearly wiped out, they would
 have been totally wiped out.

BOB KLAHN

... Certe, Toto, sentio nos in Kansate non iam adesse.
 * Silver Xpress V4.3P RB10275

--- FLAME v1.1
 * Origin: Telnet toltbbs.com or call 313-854-6001, Boardwatch #55 (1:234/2)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 48 of 135
 From : Bob Klahn                           1:234/2         .pä 12 .þí 96 11:23
 To   : Frank Glover
 Subj : WHITE STAR = THE DEFI
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
BK>>   Hadadar weaponry. A point worthy of consideration, IMO. Seems
BK>>  fighting a
BK>>   bunch of "ducks" requires rethinking strategy.

 FG>    True. The Federation and its adversaries seem to prefer engagements
 FG>    between medium-to-large ships, rather than filling the sky with
 FG>    fighters as in the Star Wars, or the Battlestar Galactia universes.
 FG>    This is new stuff to Starfleet, but someone decided it might be the
 FG>    best way to overwhelm a Borg ship,and the Defiant was their first
 FG>    step in that new tactical direction.

 Much like the PT boats. Like they say, the military is always preparing to
 fight the last war. With proper weaponry, and effective shields, the
 starship could be quite effective against small fighters.

 FG>    Plus, (again with an anology to Pacific Naval experience) the
 FG>    Jem'haddar are also willing to make a kamakaze attack on a larger
 FG>    target, even when it's withdrawing from the engagement.

 Which makes me wonder if the Jem'haddar are not actually a culture obsessed
 with death. I wonder if the Jem'haddar aren't really suicidal, and stay
 alive only because of a sense of duty. I wonder if they don't hate
 themselves even more than they hate anyone else.

BOB KLAHN

... File not found. Should I fake it? (Y/N)
 * Silver Xpress V4.3P RB10275

--- FLAME v1.1
 * Origin: Telnet toltbbs.com or call 313-854-6001, Boardwatch #55 (1:234/2)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 49 of 135
 From : Bob Klahn                           1:234/2         .pä 12 .þí 96 11:23
 To   : David Johnston
 Subj : INCONSISTENT SHADOWS.
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
->> DJ> Of course there's no particular reason to think that the Mimbarii
->> DJ> haven't advanced significantly, although they are obviously a
->> more DJ> conservative species than humanity.
->> I would think, if their starting point was the capability of
->> interstellar warfare, a thousand years advancement would result in
->> technology beyond our comprehension.

 DJ> The Mimbari do have technology beyond our comprehension.  They are also,
 DJ> quite obviously plateaued in their development.

 I don't think it's that far beyond, much like the Jet airplane to H. Ford.
 He may not understand it, but he could learn it.

 You may be correct about the plateau. Maybe due to the Mimbarii souls being
 born into human bodies. Which would imply the joining of the two ought to
 lead to a renewal of advancement.

BOB KLAHN

... The ultimate law of the universe...Murphy's law.
 * Silver Xpress V4.3P RB10275

--- FLAME v1.1
 * Origin: Telnet toltbbs.com or call 313-854-6001, Boardwatch #55 (1:234/2)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 50 of 135
 From : Roy LeBlanc                         1:396/17.40     .åò 13 .þí 96 21:01
 To   : Henry Triplett
 Subj : Lois and Clark
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On (13 Jun 96) Henry Triplett wrote to BRION LIENHART...

-=> Quoting Brion Lienhart to Henry Triplett <=-

 HT>  -HT>A mermaid?!?  That's a new one! (I think.)

 BL> It was new back in the fourties or fifties the first time Superman
 BL> dated a  mermaid named Lori Lemaris.

 HT> The more things change...  You'd think after 60-plus years of searching
 HT> and thinking, Superman could make up his mind as to which L.L. he would
 HT> spend his life in celibate bliss with.

Reminds me to ask if anyone remembers who wrote the essaye:
"Man of Steel, Woman of Kleenex"

Was it Anderson or Niven?

-Roy LeBlanc


... "Bones,It's Jerry Garcia!" "He's dead Jim, and grateful"

--- PPoint 1.92
 * Origin: Roy's Point of Information (1:396/17.40)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 51 of 135
 From : Jeff Hancock                        1:3600/7        .pä 12 .þí 96 19:12
 To   : Leman Russ
 Subj : Advanced Tech.
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

LR>it. That old tape had a segment where the defiant..er white star
LR>moved in to save B4 from the shadow attack, but...that was an
LR>external view. WHo took it?

As was clearly stated, the Great Machine on Epsilon 3, which had been
recording happenings in that area of space for quite some time.
Different tape from the one with the Shadows destroying the Minbari
base, and B4's existance in that time period.

-=-
 * Crazy-J * Twinkies have a half-life, but Velveeta is eternal.

--- SLMAIL v3.5C  (#1540)
 * Origin: Robotech þ Lake City's Music*Demo BBS þ [904] 758*9477 (1:3600/7)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 52 of 135
 From : Jeff Hancock                        1:3600/7        .pä 12 .þí 96 19:30
 To   : Glenn Shaheen
 Subj : cancelled
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

GS>FS>if Babylon 5 was cancelled!  I don't think WB dare even think
GS>        Then happy days would be here again...

Sorry to ruin your day, Glenn, but 'tis true.  You're just going to have
to hope for next year.

I would wish that whatever you liked that I didn't would get cancelled,
but then that would make me as bad as you.

-=-
 * Crazy-J * "If you can't stay young, at least stay immature."

--- SLMAIL v3.5C  (#1540)
 * Origin: Robotech þ Lake City's Music*Demo BBS þ [904] 758*9477 (1:3600/7)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 53 of 135
 From : Jeff Hancock                        1:3600/7        .pä 12 .þí 96 19:36
 To   : Leman Russ
 Subj : The sf channel
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

LR> Yeah, I found that out. They ruined Dominion when they translated
LR>it. GHAWD< IT SUCKED!!!!! Thank ghawd I have the subbed copies. >:[

I didn't think the Sci-Fi channel would be doing translations.  More
likely someone else did, whoever sells it commercially; and I'd be
interested to know who that is.  Not very, but then I don't even know
what Dominion is.

A prime example of hacking would be what DIC has done to Sailor Moon, if
you get that in your area.  Believe it or not, the original was not all
THAT stupid; which isn't to say it was a great work of art, but at least
it was better.

And then, of course, there's always Robotech.... <G>

-=-
 * Crazy-J * In my small college, the debate team was a schizophrenic.

--- SLMAIL v3.5C  (#1540)
 * Origin: Robotech þ Lake City's Music*Demo BBS þ [904] 758*9477 (1:3600/7)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 54 of 135
 From : Nicolai Shapero                     1:102/524       .åò 13 .þí 96 06:14
 To   : Marco Catalano
 Subj : Space Above & Beyond
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Jun 09 14:54>, Marco Catalano (2:2802/152.3) wrote to Kay Shapero:

 MC>Didn't the previous episodes name was :And if we die and they lay
 MC>us to rest?

Something like that.  It was a pity that they cancelled S:AAB, but the producers
STILL managed to get one more dig in at the "suits".

 MC>But if they did, they _DID_ took as many Chigs as possible with
 MC>them?

Well...actually only three of 'em died (one definite kill, two possibles).  West
and Hawkes survived (and McQueen MAY have survived).

-- Nicolai Shapero, the Mad Russian Sysop of StormGate Aerie

--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 55 of 135
 From : Leman Russ                          1:2250/7        .åò 13 .þí 96 04:51
 To   : Don Bach
 Subj : Re: The sf channel
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 DB> systems, so if you have some capital....
 DB> We probably need to go to netmail to discuss this further.

 I wish I had some ca[pital, but there's no need to diuscuss this in netmail.
I'm sure LOTS of people here can't get the sf channel and are interested in
getting it.

>:[

--- DLG Pro v1.0/DLGMail
 * Origin: Sage's Tower - Amiga - (618) 259-1844 (1:2250/7)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 56 of 135
 From : Leman Russ                          1:2250/7        .åò 13 .þí 96 04:53
 To   : David Little
 Subj : Re: Red Dwarf
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Thanx for clearing up the "Goldifhs shoals" line in the RD theme. It drove me
crazy for a while..

 Till i got in in miggybits.

>:[

--- DLG Pro v1.0/DLGMail
 * Origin: Sage's Tower - Amiga - (618) 259-1844 (1:2250/7)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 57 of 135
 From : Brion Lienhart                      1:213/700.2     .ÿò 14 .þí 96 08:56
 To   : Roy LeBlanc
 Subj : Lois and Clark
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On Thu Jun 13, Roy LeBlanc said to Henry Triplett:

 BL> It was new back in the fourties or fifties the first time Superman
 BL> dated a  mermaid named Lori Lemaris.

 HT> The more things change...  You'd think after 60-plus years of searching
 HT> and thinking, Superman could make up his mind as to which L.L. he would
 HT> spend his life in celibate bliss with.

 -RL>Reminds me to ask if anyone remembers who wrote the essaye:
 -RL>"Man of Steel, Woman of Kleenex"

 -RL>Was it Anderson or Niven?

Larry Niven. It's been in several of his collections.


--- QM v1.31
 * Origin: Ministry of Peace - Carson City, NV (1:213/700.2)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 58 of 135
 From : Don Godfrey                         1:203/125       .ÿò 14 .þí 96 08:53
 To   : Brandon Wolgast
 Subj : Re: Space:  Above And Beyond!
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

BW> Sorry to say, but I'm pretty sure it was cancelled.  I do agree, I
BW> really enjoyed it, especially the later episodes.

Finally,  someone out there shares an opinion with me!  Thanks for your
reply!

BW> As for open ends. I think if it had come back for a season 2, we would
BW> have only seen the "two survivors." Wang is dead and gone, that was
BW> apparent. And even if Vansen(my favorite) and Damphousse are alive
BW> they would not have been back for at least half-way through second
BW> season. I mean, in a previous episode they left over 2000 people on a
BW> planet, I doubt they are going to go back and do a huge search for just
BW> two people, perhaps they would be in the episodes but not fighting or
BW> with the others just kinda trying to survive. As for McQueen, the speech
BW> at the end pretty much seemed to say "Well, he's gone too for a long
BW> time at least."

I think that science fiction in general is great!  The writers always find a
way to bring back "dead" characters.  I believe that nothing is ever final
in SCi Fi!   They may make a comeback for a season with some permanent
replacements,  you never know!

BW> Anyway , I think it is gone for good, but I'm glad I recorded the final
BW> three episodes, I hope someone else picks it up.

I missed recording everything but the 2nd half of the last episode.
Hopefully Sci Fi channel will pick it up or maybe another network!

|04-J|12ed|14i M|15/´|07st|08er-
|11F|03ido|11NET |03[|111|03:|112o3|03/|11125|03]

--- GEcho 1.00
 * Origin: |12Space & Sci Fi BBs |11-=> |09[916] 684-6897 (1:203/125)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 59 of 135
 From : Henry Triplett                      1:106/564       .ÿò 14 .þí 96 11:27
 To   : ROY LEBLANC
 Subj : Lois and Clark
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

-=> Quoting Roy Leblanc to Henry Triplett <=-

 RL> Reminds me to ask if anyone remembers who wrote the essaye:
 RL> "Man of Steel, Woman of Kleenex"

 RL> Was it Anderson or Niven?

It was Niven, but I don't remember where it first appeared in print.  He
refers to it in his book "Playgrounds of the Mind."

Henry

... "You're Superman!  I really *am* looking forward to our honeymoon!" LL

___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20 [NR]
--- GEcho 1.00
 * Origin: Eat Flaming Death    Houston Texas    713-447-1927 (1:106/564)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 60 of 135
 From : Glenn Shaheen                       1:3600/7        .pä 12 .þí 96 22:58
 To   : Jeff Hancock
 Subj : cancelled
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

JH>GS>FS>if Babylon 5 was cancelled!  I don't think WB dare even think
JH>GS>        Then happy days would be here again...

JH>Sorry to ruin your day, Glenn, but 'tis true.  You're just going to have
JH>to hope for next year.

        Yeah, but it would mean all you B5 fanatics would stop harping
about how much better B5 is than DS9.
-=-
 * OLX 2.2 * "Happiness is a warm puppy", said the anaconda.

--- SLMAIL v3.5C  (#1540)
 * Origin: Robotech þ Lake City's Music*Demo BBS þ [904] 758*9477 (1:3600/7)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 61 of 135
 From : Todd Sullivan                       1:202/720.3     .åò 13 .þí 96 23:18
 To   : Lawrence E Dunlap
 Subj : Robert A. Heinlein
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Reports from the Interior indicate that Lawrence E Dunlap leaked the following
to me, re: Robert A. Heinlein

 LED>     ??????? I *thought* I saw a movie titled *Destination: Moon* in
 LED> the
 LED> video stores. Was that a totally different movie from the RAH version?
 LED> Or was it simply continued without RAH's approval?

He did script work, not the actual writing.

After a while it got to the point (paraphrased) "Everyone was writing dialogue,
even the banker's wife", and he quit.  It was continued because it wasn't his
project from the start.

Get a copy of "Grumbles" and check it out.  "Destination Moon" has a section of
its own.

Todd Sullivan

... "Don't have a cow, man." --Bart

-*- ASTG 1.9

--- Spot 1.3a Unregistered
 * Origin: Todd's Spot in the Continuum (1:202/720.3)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 62 of 135
 From : Brandon Wolgast                     1:363/281       .åò 13 .þí 96 11:52
 To   : All
 Subj : Space Title
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE/32 1.2
I did watch the second to last Space episode, but missed about the first
10 minutes and was wondering if anyone knew the title of it?

***
 * OLX 2.1 * "Are you ready for some football!!" -Tom Servo

--- Use the FORCE!!!
 * Origin: Feduberator * STAR WARS Support * (407)381-2798 (1:363/281)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 63 of 135
 From : Nicolai Shapero                     1:102/524       .ÿò 14 .þí 96 05:50
 To   : Roy LeBlanc
 Subj : Lois and Clark
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Jun 13 21:01>, Roy LeBlanc (1:396/17.40) wrote to Henry Triplett:

 RL>Reminds me to ask if anyone remembers who wrote the essaye:
 RL>"Man of Steel, Woman of Kleenex"

 RL>Was it Anderson or Niven?

Larry Niven.

-- Nicolai Shapero, the Mad Russian Sysop of StormGate Aerie

--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 64 of 135
 From : Don Godfrey                         1:203/125       .ÿò 14 .þí 96 10:03
 To   : Kay Shapero
 Subj : Re: SPACE:  ABOVE AND BEYOND!
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

KS> Not watching Babylon 5?  Give it a try - it may be hard to figure out at fi
KS> given as by this time you've missed the first 2 1/2 years of the story, but
KS> it's pretty good.

I tried it before (about a year ago) and it just doesn't seem to interest me
that much!  It to me,  seems like is should have died long ago....just my
opinion!

|04-J|12ed|14i M|15/´|07st|08er-
|11F|03ido|11NET |03[|111|03:|112o3|03/|11125|03]

--- GEcho 1.00
 * Origin: |12Space & Sci Fi BBs |11-=> |09[916] 684-6897 (1:203/125)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 65 of 135
 From : Leman Russ                          1:2250/7        .ÿò 14 .þí 96 04:56
 To   : All
 Subj : B5 tech
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 Some here speculate that B5 implies technological plateaus that are the end of
a races advancement, and that the mimnbari have reached one. I dispute this,
kindly, by pointing out that the mimbs are obviously inferior tothe vorlon and
the shadows, not to mention the great machine and whoever the hell was onthat
ship ivavanova contacted.

 There has been some advancement in mimb tech, I think, as the mimb ships seen
in "war without end" at the ned of the first shadow war looked different than
the onesseen in the 23rd century.

 Also the vorlons are so advanced they have become at least partially energy
creatures, and the shadows can, it seem, walk in and out of hyperspace at will.

 So I doubtr the mimbs havereached a plateau, it's probaly just that they
advance slower due to their stagnant society, and a caste society is stagnant by
definition.

 Also I don't think the mimbs are all that advanced mentally, spiritually or
morally.

 They were stupidenough to come charging at an unknown (earth) ship with their
gunports open, which just about forces the other guy to fire at you before you
fire at him.

 Then they were immature enough to serioulsy attempt genocide, including the
mass slaughter of defenseless people, including children, because one oftheir
leaders was killed.

 Honey, I think the mimbs have a Loooooong way to delope in all senses.

>:[

--- DLG Pro v1.0/DLGMail
 * Origin: Sage's Tower - Amiga - (618) 259-1844 (1:2250/7)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 66 of 135
 From : Frank Swarbrick                     1:104/825       .åò 13 .þí 96 20:29
 To   : Owen E. Oulton
 Subj : Red Dwarf
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12  92-0022
On 06-11-96  02:23, shipwrecked and comatose, Owen E. Oulton said:

 FS> Could someone post the words to the Red Dwarf theme song?

 OEO> It's cold outside,
 OEO> There's no kind of atmosphere.
 OEO> I'm all alone, more or less.
 OEO> Let me fly,
 OEO> Far away from here.
 OEO> Fun, fun, fun,
 OEO> In the sun, sun, sun...

 OEO> I want to lie,
 OEO> Shipwrecked and comatose,
 OEO> Drinking fresh mango juice.
 OEO> Goldfish shoals,
 OEO> Nibbling at my toes,
 OEO> Fun, fun, fun,
 OEO> In the sun, sun, sun.
 OEO> Fun, fun, fun,
 OEO> In the sun, sun, sun...

Thanks muchly, sir!

Speaking of the theme song, what's your opinion on the opening music
of the first few series vs. the later "rock" version?  Personally, I
like the original.  It's more ironic, and sounds better too.

        Frank

... Don't give away the homeworld!
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12
 * Origin: The Bailey Information Exchange BBS, 28.8k v.fc  (1:104/825.0)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 67 of 135
 From : Kay Shapero                         1:102/524       .óá 15 .þí 96 10:34
 To   : Glenn Shaheen
 Subj : cancelled
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Jun 12 22:58>, Glenn Shaheen (1:3600/7) wrote to Jeff Hancock:

 GS>        Yeah, but it would mean all you B5 fanatics would stop
 GS>harping about how much better B5 is than DS9.

B5 is a continuous story planned over 5 seasons.  And your best bet is to hope
that it RUNS all 5 seasons.  Then the story will be over, and the series will
end.  Otherwise the speculation on how it will come out will go on for a long,
long, time.

Because Babylon 5 happens to be a very good show completely on its own merits.
It has no connection with any other TV space shows and you are certainly free to
enjoy them too.  This whole "rivalry" business is silly.  I mean, back when "The
Outer Limits" came along after "The Twilight Zone" had been running for years,
the fans of the latter didn't start ragging on the fans of the former or vice
versa - we all watched BOTH of them.

--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 68 of 135
 From : Frank Swarbrick                     1:104/825       .ÿò 14 .þí 96 20:14
 To   : Kay Shapero
 Subj : Re: SPACE:  ABOVE AND BEY
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12  92-0022
On 06-12-96  08:05, shipwrecked and comatose, Kay Shapero said:

 KS> On <Jun 11 06:28>, Don Godfrey (1:203/125) wrote to Earl Green:

 DG>Dang!  TV finally gets a show on that I am into and they give it
 DG>the ax...I guess that I not be watching much anymore.  I am all
 DG>"TV"'d out on Star Trek re-runs!

 KS> Not watching Babylon 5?  Give it a try - it may be hard to figure out
 KS> at  first given as by this time you've missed the first 2 1/2 years of
 KS> the  story, but it's pretty good.

Pretty good???  This is all you can say about it????  :-)

        Frank

... "Peace -- through superior firepower."
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12
 * Origin: The Bailey Information Exchange BBS, 28.8k v.fc  (1:104/825.0)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 69 of 135
 From : Charles Daniels                     1:203/42        .óá 15 .þí 96 22:56
 To   : Jeff Hancock
 Subj : The sf channel
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

>LR> Yeah, I found that out. They ruined Dominion when they translated
>LR>it. GHAWD< IT SUCKED!!!!! Thank ghawd I have the subbed copies. >:[

>I didn't think the Sci-Fi channel would be doing translations.  More
>likely someone else did, whoever sells it commercially; and I'd be
>interested to know who that is.  Not very, but then I don't even know
>what Dominion is.

Dominon...hmm..it's also called Dominon:Tank Police.   Sci-Fi channel
had NOTHING to do with the dubbing!  The company that did the job must
have HATED the show.  They would change characters voices every so often
radically - people with Alabama accents get English accents then New
England accents then all of a sudden they are from Georgia!!  And that
was just what they did to the poor cats!

> A prime example of hacking would be what DIC has done to Sailor Moon,
> if you get that in your area.  Believe it or not, the original was not
> all THAT stupid; which isn't to say it was a great work of art, but at
> least it was better.

What do you expect when you hack a 60 minute show in 30 minutes and then
dumb it up with a morale message?

--- FMail 0.98
 * Origin: Deep Thought: RedDwarf,ST,SF, FREE MEAT!  916-452-9501 (1:203/42)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 70 of 135
 From : Charles Daniels                     1:203/42        .óá 15 .þí 96 22:57
 To   : Leman Russ
 Subj : Red Dwarf
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

> Thanx for clearing up the "Goldifhs shoals" line in the RD theme. It
> drove me crazy for a while..
>  Till i got in in miggybits.
>>:[

For those with internet newsgroup access try alt.tv.red-dwarf.  Tell 'em
Charles sent you!

--- FMail 0.98
 * Origin: Deep Thought: RedDwarf,ST,SF, FREE MEAT!  916-452-9501 (1:203/42)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 71 of 135
 From : Frank Glover                        1:2613/477      .cê 16 .þí 96 02:08
 To   : Henry Triplett
 Subj : Re: Lois and Clark
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

HT>   RL> Reminds me to ask if anyone remembers who wrote the essaye:
HT>   RL> "Man of Steel, Woman of Kleenex"
HT>
HT>   RL> Was it Anderson or Niven?
HT>
HT>  It was Niven, but I don't remember where it first appeared in print.
HT>  He
HT>  refers to it in his book "Playgrounds of the Mind."

   I don't know if this was its first appearance, but I have it in the `All The
Myriad Ways' anthology.

   Frank


--- QuickBBS 2.80 GoldBase (Zeta-1.9A)
 * Origin: The Matrix Data Bank BBS, Rochester, Ny (1:2613/477)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 72 of 135
 From : Leman Russ                          1:2250/7        .óá 15 .þí 96 05:19
 To   : Roy Leblanc
 Subj : Re: Lois and Clark
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Niven wrote "Man of steel, woman of kleenex" in "All the myriad ways", I think.

>:[

--- DLG Pro v1.0/DLGMail
 * Origin: Sage's Tower - Amiga - (618) 259-1844 (1:2250/7)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 73 of 135
 From : Leman Russ                          1:2250/7        .óá 15 .þí 96 05:21
 To   : Jeff Hancock
 Subj : Re: The sf channel
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Yeah, I loved robotech too, and thought it was the only example oif a japanime
being improved by american TV,

 Dominion was a manga/anime combo that was excellent, until they translated it.
Thank ghawd I havethe subbed versions.

>:[

--- DLG Pro v1.0/DLGMail
 * Origin: Sage's Tower - Amiga - (618) 259-1844 (1:2250/7)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 74 of 135
 From : Bob Klahn                           1:234/2         .óá 15 .þí 96 16:20
 To   : Roy Leblanc
 Subj : LOIS AND CLARK
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 RL> Reminds me to ask if anyone remembers who wrote the essaye:
 RL> "Man of Steel, Woman of Kleenex"

 RL> Was it Anderson or Niven?

 Niven, I'm pretty sure.

Bob Klahn

... A journey of a thousand miles begins with a cash advance.
 * Silver Xpress V4.02B03 RB10275

--- FLAME v1.1
 * Origin: Telnet toltbbs.com or call 313-854-6001, Boardwatch #55 (1:234/2)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 75 of 135
 From : Roy Stevens                         1:108/205       .ÿò 14 .þí 96 21:22
 To   : Frank Swarbrick
 Subj : SAAB Cancellation
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
FS> FS> Yeah, I saw that.  Bummer.  And neither was Space: Above and Beyond,
FS> JH> another show that was just starting to get really good.  Argh!
FS> JH> Another victim of poor programming. Putting *any* new show up
FS> JH> against popular, well-liked shows like Mad About You is suicide.

FS>SAAB wasn't really up against Mad About You.  It was an hour earlier. Up
FS>against 60 Minutes!

My biggest problem was that FOX would say it starts at 7:00 and then
show it whenever they got around to it. Lousy football! :<  Apparently
since people couldn't watch what they didn't show, they decided nobody
wanted to.


 * SLMR 2.1a * It's only my opinion, but it's better than yours.

--- TMail v1.31.5
 * Origin: MultiSystem * Cincinnati, OH * 513-231-7013 * (1:108/205)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 76 of 135
 From : Roy Stevens                         1:108/205       .ÿò 14 .þí 96 21:32
 To   : David Johnston
 Subj : INCONSISTENT SHADOWS.
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
DJ>I often suspect that rather than increasing, it is leveling out.  After all,
DJ>the last thirty years, I haven't noticed anything more than trivial
DJ>improvements apart from the field of cybernetics...at least in day-to-day
DJ>living.  As Calvin noted, we're almost in the 21st century. Where are the
DJ>jet-packs, et cetera?

I think there's been some significant changes in the last 30 years. To
name a few: VCRs, Microwave Ovens, Answering Machines, PCs, Landing on
the Moon, cellular phones, digital satelite tv, cable tv, special
effects, etc.  While some of these may have been available more than 30
years ago, they definately weren't omnipresent.  Still, I can't wait for
nano-technology to get here ;)


 * SLMR 2.1a * ... "Kids can be so cruel."  "We can? Thanks, mom!"

--- TMail v1.31.5
 * Origin: MultiSystem * Cincinnati, OH * 513-231-7013 * (1:108/205)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 77 of 135
 From : Roy Stevens                         1:108/205       .ÿò 14 .þí 96 21:42
 To   : Henry Triplett
 Subj : LOIS AND CLARK
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
HT> GM> Did anyone watch Lois and Clark get "married" last night? Well, Clark
HT> GM> married a  *CLONE* of Lois! I for one am sick and tired of shocker

         <stuff deleted>

HT> GM> it worked  with a couple of the X-men and I don't even *READ* Marvel
HT> GM> comics... On a brighter note...if you read any DC comics...mail me....
HT> GM> - Glenn

HT>Matter of fact, Spiderman (Peter Parker) has been married to Mary Jane
HT>(Watson?) for about ten years now.  Go figure.

To bring this back to Clark marrying a clone....

Turns out Peter Parker himself is a clone.  The original Peter Parker
thought he was the clone, so he kept his existance a secret, going by
the name Ben Reilly.  What goes around come around.


 * SLMR 2.1a * "May I help you?"    "No, thanks, just lurking."

--- TMail v1.31.5
 * Origin: MultiSystem * Cincinnati, OH * 513-231-7013 * (1:108/205)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 78 of 135
 From : Tim Childree                        1:3613/4        .cê 16 .þí 96 15:58
 To   : All
 Subj : How To Have A New Life In Christ
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 * Crossposted from: General Messages


THIS IS WHAT THE BIBLE TELLS US:
Your heart tends to run from God and rebel against Him. The Bible
calls this,"sin". Romans 3:23 says,"For all have sinned and fall short
of the glory of God."

Yet God loves you and wants to save you from sin,to offer you a new
life of hope. John 10:10 says, "I have come that you may have life,and
have it to the full."

To give you this gift of salvation,God made a way through his
son,Jesus Christ. Romans 5:8 says,"But God demonstrates his own love
for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us."

You recieve this gift by faith alone. Ephesians 2:8 says,"For it is by
grace you have been saved, through faith - and this not from
yourselves, it is the gift of God - not by works , so that no one can
boast."

Faith is a decision of your heart demonstrated by the actions of your
life. Romans 10:9 says,"If you confess with your mouth,'Jesus is
Lord',and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you
will be saved."

If you are choosing right now to believe Jesus died for your sins and
to recieve new life through Him, pray a prayer similar to this to
thank Him for your new life:

Dear God, I know I am a sinner. I believe Jesus died to forgive me of
my sins. I now accept Your offer of eternal life. Thank You for
forgiving me of all my sin. Thank You for my new life. From this day
forward, I will choose to follow you.


If this expresses the desire of your heart , or if you have ANY
questions...write me via Fido or E-mail (upper@atl.mindspring.com) and
I will attempt to answer any questions.....if I can't I promise to put
you in touch with those who can!!





                   John 15:5
         †
    _†_/---\_†_


... "Humor, too, is one of His creations." -- Father Mulcahy, M*A*S*H
--- RA2.50/FM1.02/FD2.12sw
 * Origin: PC MUNCHLAND | 706-561-8043 | Columbus GA | 14.4Kbps (1:3613/4)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 79 of 135
 From : Kay Shapero                         1:102/524       .cê 16 .þí 96 19:12
 To   : Don Godfrey
 Subj : TV shows
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Jun 14 10:03>, Don Godfrey (1:203/125) wrote to Kay Shapero re Babylon 5:

 DG>I tried it before (about a year ago) and it just doesn't seem to
 DG>interest me
 DG>that much!  It to me,  seems like is should have died long
 DG>ago....just my opinion!

"Concerning taste there can be no argument, said the lady as she kissed the
cow."

What do you think of the current Outer Limits?  I haven't been all that
favorably impressed thus far, though they did a fair job with Inconstant Moon
(reshown the other night, so I finally got to see the opening scenes.)

--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 80 of 135
 From : Kay Shapero                         1:102/524       .cê 16 .þí 96 19:13
 To   : Brandon Wolgast
 Subj : Space Title
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Jun 13 11:52>, Brandon Wolgast (1:363/281) wrote to All:

 BW>I did watch the second to last Space episode, but missed about
 BW>the first
 BW>10 minutes and was wondering if anyone knew the title of it?
 BW>

"Tell Our Moms We Did Our Best"

--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 81 of 135
 From : Leman Russ                          1:2250/7        .cê 16 .þí 96 05:29
 To   : Glenn Shaheen
 Subj : Re: cancelled
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 I agfree with you about being tired of the BABYlonians going on about how much
better B5 is than DS9, and am sick ofthem too even if I do sort of like the
show. I'd still like it to get canned early just to shut them and their trek
bashing up.

 BTW, I thought your tagline was siiiiiiiiick.

>:[

--- DLG Pro v1.0/DLGMail
 * Origin: Sage's Tower - Amiga - (618) 259-1844 (1:2250/7)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 82 of 135
 From : Bob Klahn                           1:234/2         .cê 16 .þí 96 22:05
 To   : Leman Russ
 Subj : B5 TECH
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 ...

 LR>  So I doubtr the mimbs havereached a plateau, it's probaly just that
 LR>  they advance slower due to their stagnant society, and a caste society
 LR>  is stagnant by definition.

 This is true, but there should still be more advancement than there has
 been. That is, unless they were so damaged in the war they had to work
 their way back up first.

 LR>  Also I don't think the mimbs are all that advanced mentally,
 LR>  spiritually or morally.

 Please don't take this the wrong way, but I have to say, I agree with you.

 LR>  They were stupidenough to come charging at an unknown (earth) ship
 LR>  with their gunports open, which just about forces the other guy to
 LR>  fire at you before you fire at him.

 Anyone with any sense knows you settle matters of protocol before you hold
 a meeting between armies. Any race that has been in space as long as the
 Mimbari should know better than to assume any other race will properly
 interpret their "gesture of respect."

 LR>  Then they were immature enough to serioulsy attempt genocide,
 LR>  including the mass slaughter of defenseless people, including
 LR>  children, because one oftheir leaders was killed.

 You cetainly don't push another race back to the caves because of one
 misunderstanding. A "civilized" race wouldn't, anyway.

  Who was it who suggested we should bomb North Vietnam back to the stone
 age? Well, that didn't go over, and we were in a long and bloody war with
 them.

  I guess this suggests we are actually morally superior to the Mimbari.

  Sorry for all the agreement, I'll try to do better next time.


Bob Klahn

... Sometimes the dragon wins.
 * Silver Xpress V4.02B03 RB10275

--- FLAME v1.1
 * Origin: Telnet toltbbs.com or call 313-854-6001, Boardwatch #55 (1:234/2)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 83 of 135
 From : Patrick Long                        1:271/380       .cê 16 .þí 96 10:58
 To   : Leman Russ
 Subj : B5 tech
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

LR-=> Also I don't think the mimbs are all that advanced mentally,
  -=>spiritually or morally.

LR-=> They were stupid enough to come charging at an unknown (earth)
  -=>ship with their gunports open, which just about forces the other
  -=>guy to fire at you before you fire at him.

LR-=> Then they were immature enough to serioulsy attempt genocide,
  -=>including the mass slaughter of defenseless people, including
  -=>children, because one of their leaders was killed.

LR-=> Honey, I think the mimbs have a Loooooong way to delope in all
  -=>senses.  :[

When judged by _human_ values, perhaps so.  Are human values so
superior?  As I understand it, as a general rule, Mimbari do not kill
Mimbari...


... After all, if a brain's not a playground, what good is it?

--- ViaMAIL!/WC5 v1.00b
 * Origin: ViaMail v1.00ñv - The Gondor BBS (804) 888-1367  (1:271/380)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 84 of 135
 From : Barbara Manna                       1:3600/7        .cê 16 .þí 96 00:53
 To   : Robert Parson
 Subj : Re: PINKY AND THE BRAIN
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
A Pinky/Brain fan!!!:)  Hi!:)  Do you have cable (what I'm trying to find
out is, how do I get the WB channel?)  I have PrimeStar but I don't think
that they have the WB channel.:(  I used to watch them every day on Fox.
Respond if you've got time, K?!:)

--- SLMAIL v3.5C  (#1540)
 * Origin: Robotech þ Lake City's Music*Demo BBS þ [904] 758*9477 (1:3600/7)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 85 of 135
 From : Lawrence E Dunlap                   1:106/2927      .îí 17 .þí 96 17:13
 To   : Bill Warren
 Subj : Heinlein
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
RAH's problem with telvision might be more that somehow, less intellectually
refined content came into their programming in the days when he wrote the 1950's
juveniles which depicted television as Science Fiction Hell in one form or
other. RAH did prove concerned that a truly edcated citizenry come to take
command of the problems of our times. While RAH lived in some of the edges opf
that era, toward the end of his life, he seemed to accept there would be
audiences for trivial programming and audiences for programs tending to provoke
thought and nourish civilization.

There isn't much on American TV to justify his faith in the ability of humanity
to rise above the more primal areas of behavior, but RA H had it and lived it to
some point of an end.

Lawrence E Dunlap
(1:106/2927) and Internet PostOakLED@AOL.com
* SPITFIRE v3.5
--- Alexi/Mail 2.02b (#10000)
 * Origin: Computer Living F'n BBS-Spring, TX 713-355-1596 (1:106/2927)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 86 of 135
 From : Lawrence E Dunlap                   1:106/2927      .îí 17 .þí 96 17:15
 To   : Todd Sullivan
 Subj : Robert A. Heinlein
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

TS> He did script work, not the actual writing.

TS> After a while it got to the point (paraphrased) "Everyone was writing
TS> dialogue, even the banker's wife", and he quit.  It was continued
TS> because it wasn't his project from the start.

TS> Get a copy of "Grumbles" and check it out.  "Destination Moon" has a
TS> section of its own.

TS> Todd Sullivan


Obviously if it wasn't his own project, Heinlein *could* quit it.

Lawrence E Dunlap
(1:106/2927) or Internet PostOakLED@AOL.com

PS: I own a copy of *Grumbles* LED
* SPITFIRE v3.5
--- Alexi/Mail 2.02b (#10000)
 * Origin: Computer Living F'n BBS-Spring, TX 713-355-1596 (1:106/2927)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 87 of 135
 From : Don Godfrey                         1:203/125       .îí 17 .þí 96 08:23
 To   : Frank Swarbrick
 Subj : Re: SPACE:  ABOVE AND BEY
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

FS>  KS> On <Jun 11 06:28>, Don Godfrey (1:203/125) wrote to Earl Green:

FS>  KS> Not watching Babylon 5?  Give it a try - it may be hard to figure out
FS>  KS> at  first given as by this time you've missed the first 2 1/2 years of
FS>  KS> the  story, but it's pretty good.
FS>
FS> Pretty good???  This is all you can say about it????  :-)

Yeah,  It is only "pretty good" in my opinion.  I still think that Space
Above and Beyond was one of the best Sci Fi shows out there!

|05-|10D|08o|10N|05-

--- GEcho 1.00
 * Origin: |12Space & Sci Fi BBs |11-=> |09[916] 684-6897 (1:203/125)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 88 of 135
 From : Jeff Hancock                        1:3600/7        .cê 16 .þí 96 13:14
 To   : Glenn Shaheen
 Subj : cancelled
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

GS>JH>GS>FS>if Babylon 5 was cancelled!  I don't think WB dare even
GS>        Yeah, but it would mean all you B5 fanatics would stop
GS>harping about how much better B5 is than DS9.

Now that's wishful thinking if I've ever seen it.

There are still people out there - and probably in here too - who think
that (as an example) Star Trek: The Original Series beats the living
Exon out of TNG, DS9, and Voyager combined.  There are any number of
cancelled series which still have rabid fans that will put it up against
any series now or ever on the tube, and it's practically guaranteed that
long after Babylon 5 has quit the airwaves (which will happen in two
years ANYWAY), every SF show will still get compared to it by somebody.

The only thing it could mean is that Trek has the potential to make
episode that would, in some way, be better then any of the other B5
episodes to date (although that seems highly unlikely), and even then
people would still bring up the vast library of episodes which were NOT
worth watching.  When you compare the series as a whole, B5 has a lot
more going for it in terms of quality, while Trek has a hell of a lot
more fans because it's more accessable, has been around for thirty-odd
years, and doesn't require the viewer to think too hard. ;)

(I actually had someone tell me they didn't want to watch B5 because
"they didn't want to think" while watching TV.  There's the public for
you.)

Now you can still argue specifics... for example, you could say that a
future Trek episode had "F/X better than B5 ever did", and since B5
wouldn't be putting out any more if you had your wish, there's no way
they could top it.  But right there, that shows why you should be GLAD
B5 IS on the air, it promotes competition and makes sure that everyone
concerned tries to make their show better than the others.  Of course in
Trek's case that usually seems to be "borrowing" past or foreshadowed B5
storylines and making a hash of them, but even so I'll bet they wouldn't
have spent the money on making a "Way of the Warrior" if B5 wasn't
trying to outdo them in the F/X department.

-=-
 * Crazy-J * "Well as my great-grandfather used to say, cool."

--- SLMAIL v3.5C  (#1540)
 * Origin: Robotech þ Lake City's Music*Demo BBS þ [904] 758*9477 (1:3600/7)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 89 of 135
 From : Todd Sullivan                       1:202/720.3     .óá 15 .þí 96 17:20
 To   : Glenn Shaheen
 Subj : B5 renewed
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Reports from the Interior indicate that Glenn Shaheen leaked the following to
Jeff Hancock, re: cancelled

 JH>> Sorry to ruin your day, Glenn, but 'tis true.  You're just going to
 JH>> have to hope for next year.

 GS>         Yeah, but it would mean all you B5 fanatics would stop harping
 GS> about how much better B5 is than DS9.

Them's the breaks.  For the longest time Paramount's been able to allow
low-grade material to be foisted off on an unsuspecting public, and the viewers
bought into that nonsense.  It's about time the tables were turned, IMO, and
I've watched all of Trek's renditions from 1965 onwards.  I *know* there's been
a loss of quality, and it /wasn't/ in the effects department.

Todd Sullivan

... "Don't we even get a few practice semesters?" -- Calvin

-*- ASTG 1.9

--- Spot 1.3a Unregistered
 * Origin: Todd's Spot in the Continuum (1:202/720.3)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 90 of 135
 From : Frank Swarbrick                     1:104/825       .óá 15 .þí 96 22:31
 To   : Nicolai Shapero
 Subj : Space Above & Beyond
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12  92-0022
On 06-13-96  06:14, shipwrecked and comatose, Nicolai Shapero said:

 NS> On <Jun 09 14:54>, Marco Catalano (2:2802/152.3) wrote to Kay
 NS> Shapero:
 MC>Didn't the previous episodes name was :And if we die and they lay
 MC>us to rest?

 NS> Something like that.  It was a pity that they cancelled S:AAB, but the
 NS> producers STILL managed to get one more dig in at the "suits".

Just for the record:

 22.  123  May 26, 1996  "And If They Lay Us Down To Rest..." (Part 1 of 2)
 23.  124  Jun  2, 1996  "...Tell Our Moms We Done Our Best" (Part 2 of 2)

Still, I really don't see that it was an intentional "dig" at anyone.
I doubt they knew they were cancelled at the time they filmed and
titled the episode...  (Though I suppose they could have changed
it...)

        Frank

... We Are Not Who We Are -- The X-Files
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12
 * Origin: The Bailey Information Exchange BBS, 28.8k v.fc  (1:104/825.0)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 91 of 135
 From : Todd Sullivan                       1:202/720.3     .cê 16 .þí 96 23:07
 To   : Kay Shapero
 Subj : cancelled
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Reports from the Interior indicate that Kay Shapero leaked the following to
Glenn Shaheen, re: cancelled

 KS> On <Jun 12 22:58>, Glenn Shaheen (1:3600/7) wrote to Jeff Hancock:

 GS>>        Yeah, but it would mean all you B5 fanatics would stop
 GS>> harping about how much better B5 is than DS9.

 KS> B5 is a continuous story planned over 5 seasons.  And your best bet is
 KS> to hope that it RUNS all 5 seasons.  Then the story will be over, and
 KS> the series will end.  Otherwise the speculation on how it will come out
 KS> will go on for a long, long, time.

 KS> Because Babylon 5 happens to be a very good show completely on its own
 KS> merits.  It has no connection with any other TV space shows and you are
 KS> certainly free to enjoy them too.  This whole "rivalry" business is
 KS> silly.  I mean, back when "The Outer Limits" came along after "The
 KS> Twilight Zone" had been running for years, the fans of the latter
 KS> didn't start ragging on the fans of the former or vice versa - we all
 KS> watched BOTH of them.

Hear, hear!  That's the way I feel about the current set of X vs. Y arguments.
You said it perfectly, Kay.

Todd Sullivan

... Spam Spam Spam Spam, Lovely Spammmm!  Wonderful Spam!

-*- ASTG 1.9

--- Spot 1.3a Unregistered
 * Origin: Todd's Spot in the Continuum (1:202/720.3)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 92 of 135
 From : Bob Klahn                           1:234/2         .îí 17 .þí 96 22:56
 To   : Kay Shapero
 Subj : CANCELLED
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 KS> to enjoy them too.  This whole "rivalry" business is silly.  I mean,
 KS> back when "The Outer Limits" came along after "The Twilight Zone" had
 KS> been running for years, the fans of the latter didn't start ragging on
 KS> the fans of the former or vice versa - we all watched BOTH of them.

 Well, the Twilight Zone was better....

 Yeah, we watched them both.

BOB KLAHN

... . Those were the days, my friend, we thought they'd never end....
 * Silver Xpress V4.3P RB10275

--- FLAME v1.1
 * Origin: Telnet toltbbs.com or call 313-854-6001, Boardwatch #55 (1:234/2)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 93 of 135
 From : Henry Triplett                      1:106/564       .îí 17 .þí 96 23:51
 To   : ROY STEVENS
 Subj : LOIS AND CLARK
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

-=> Quoting Roy Stevens to Henry Triplett <=-

 RS> Turns out Peter Parker himself is a clone.  The original Peter Parker
 RS> thought he was the clone, so he kept his existance a secret, going by
 RS> the name Ben Reilly.  What goes around come around.

Sounds like a lot has happened since I stopped following Spider-Man with
any regularity.  Thanks for the info!

Henry

... "Please explain the scientific nature of 'the whammy'." --Scully

___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20 [NR]
--- GEcho 1.00
 * Origin: Eat Flaming Death    Houston Texas    713-447-1927 (1:106/564)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 94 of 135
 From : Henry Triplett                      1:106/564       .îí 17 .þí 96 23:54
 To   : CHARLES DANIELS
 Subj : The sf channel
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

-=> Quoting Charles Daniels to Jeff Hancock <=-

 > A prime example of hacking would be what DIC has done to Sailor Moon,
 > if you get that in your area.  Believe it or not, the original was not
 > all THAT stupid; which isn't to say it was a great work of art, but at
 > least it was better.

 CD> What do you expect when you hack a 60 minute show in 30 minutes and
 CD> then dumb it up with a morale message?

Sixty minutes!  No kidding!  Then the hack job that DIC is doing must be
on a par with some of the episodes of Speed Racer that used to show when
I was younger.  Those were sixty minute shows crammed into thirty as well.

Henry

... "I'm Sailor Moon!  I will right wrongs and triumph over evil!"

___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20 [NR]
--- GEcho 1.00
 * Origin: Eat Flaming Death    Houston Texas    713-447-1927 (1:106/564)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 95 of 135
 From : Mike Sheehan                        1:104/138       .óá 15 .þí 96 06:58
 To   : Frank Glover
 Subj : Re: ANALOG collectors
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

MS>  Does anyone out there collect ANALOG sci-fi mags?  Specifically from the
MS>  1970's-early 1980's?  I'm looking for a partik ish.
FG>
FG>    Which one?

There was an issue, I'll venture from 1978 or 1979 (prolly '79) which
featured a story about a black woman who travelled "inside" and outside
realms of reality and ended up the matriarch of an entire planetary race.
I read this story when I was 11 and it was very influential.  I'm hoping you
can find the issue with that story.

There was one particulary vivid scene where she plunged into the ground of
one planet and emerged on the other side into a wholly different world.

Thanks for any and all help, Frank.

 * Origin: Ds9 BBS home of the trekkers (303)494-8447 (1:104/138)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 96 of 135
 From : Leman Russ                          1:2250/7        .îí 17 .þí 96 05:14
 To   : All
 Subj : Why is this board so slow?
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 This echo averages 10 or so messages a day, while the science fiction fidonet
echo averages over 40 on weekdays, and from what I remember the BABYlon 5 echo,
despite its "you're banned for life! So there! Nyah! nyah!" moderator averaged
about 50 a day over a year ago.

 Why isthis board so slow in comparision? This is a a free for all SF echo and
should, theoretically, have more traffic then limited echoes instead of much
less.

 All users please inform yourfhannish friends about this echo. It should
begetting a lot more use based on the other single topic SF echoes, and it seems
to defy logic that it doesn't.

 I'm not bashing theecho, BTW, I just think it is getting less traffic that it
logically should.

 While I';ve got your attention, there's a new videotape out that a lot of
people here might like. It's called "Ghost inthe shell".

"GitS" is not a supernatural or horror story. It's a cyberpunk type animated
film from Japan, done by a lot ofthe people who did Akira and written by
Masamune Shirow. It's supposed to be the biggest effort at producing an OAV
(Original Animation Video) ever done and is reported to be better than Akira.

 It was released theatrically in the US, but on a very limited scale and for a
brief time. I didn't get to se eit but have read most of Shirows work and can
thus recomend it sight unseen based on Shirows ability alone.

 To clear up the title, the term "Ghost" is used to describe a mind, a
self-aware mind regardless of whether it is human or cybernetic. Shell is the
form it occupies, be it organic, cybernetic or completely artificial.

 Given that in Japan the video industry remains very faithful tothe original
work I will betthat "GitS" will be the animated equal to "Bladerunner", and
unlike some reviewers and producers I don't compare movies to bladerunner
lightly.

Blockbuster video is supped to be carrying "GitS" this week, and I real;ly
recomend it. I know I'm taking a chance recomending something unseen, but I'm
something of a japanamie conniseur and a shirow fhan so I'm willing to betthis
video will be awesome and worth the effrot to any SF/CP/bladerunner fhans out
there if you don;t have a bug up your --- against animation likesome people, who
consider it juvenile, do.

>:[

--- DLG Pro v1.0/DLGMail
 * Origin: Sage's Tower - Amiga - (618) 259-1844 (1:2250/7)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 97 of 135
 From : Bill Warren                         1:102/749       .òp 18 .þí 96 09:25
 To   : Lawrence E Dunlap
 Subj : Re: Heinlein
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

LE>  There isn't much on American TV to justify his faith in the ability
LE>  of humanity to rise above the more primal areas of behavior, but RA H
LE>  had it and lived it to some point of an end.
LE>

But Heinlein's writing for TV was almost >entirely< in the 1950s.

--- QuickBBS 2.80 GoldBase (Zeta-1)
 * Origin: Hooray For Hollywood * Los Angeles,CA -=- 213-653-7508 (1:102/749)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 98 of 135
 From : Frank Swarbrick                     1:104/825       .cê 16 .þí 96 18:30
 To   : Brandon Wolgast
 Subj : Space Title
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12  92-0022
On 06-13-96  11:52, shipwrecked and comatose, Brandon Wolgast said:

 BW> I did watch the second to last Space episode, but missed about the
 BW> first 10 minutes and was wondering if anyone knew the title of it?

I posted this yesterday, but in case you missed it here are the last
two episode titles...

 22.  123  May 26, 1996  "And If They Lay Us Down To Rest..." (Part 1 of 2)
 23.  124  Jun  2, 1996  "...Tell Our Moms We Done Our Best" (Part 2 of 2)

        Frank

... There's someone in my head, but it's not me.
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12
 * Origin: The Bailey Information Exchange BBS, 28.8k v.fc  (1:104/825.0)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 99 of 135
 From : Robert Parson                       1:3822/1        .òp 18 .þí 96 09:01
 To   : Barbara Manna
 Subj : RE: PINKY AND THE BRAIN
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
BARBARA had a few words to say about Re: PINKY AND THE BRAIN

 BM> A Pinky/Brain fan!!!:)  Hi!:)  Do you have cable (what I'm trying to
 BM> find out is, how do I get the WB channel?)  I have PrimeStar but I
 BM> don't think that they have the WB channel.:(

The WB is on WGN, which may or may not be on Primestar.  But you better check
fast, since P/B is soon to be history.  We can only hope for a midseason
pickup.



 * Silver Xpress V4.3 SW23473

--- QScan/PCB v1.19b / 01-0162
 * Origin: Jackalope Junction 501-785-5381 Ft Smith AR (1:3822/1)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 100 of 135
 From : Todd Sullivan                       1:202/720.3     .îí 17 .þí 96 17:07
 To   : Leman Russ
 Subj : BS!
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Reports from the Interior indicate that Leman Russ leaked the following to All,
re: B5 tech

 LR>  They were stupidenough to come charging at an unknown (earth) ship
 LR> with their gunports open, which just about forces the other guy to fire
 LR> at you before you fire at him.

 LR>  Then they were immature enough to serioulsy attempt genocide,
 LR> including the mass slaughter of defenseless people, including children,
 LR> because one oftheir leaders was killed.

 LR>  Honey, I think the mimbs have a Loooooong way to delope in all senses.

Congratulations on your poor application of social pseudo-science to an alien
race as portrayed on a TV show.

Where's your sheet?

Todd Sullivan

... "No human thing is of serious importance." --Plato

-*- ASTG 1.9

--- Spot 1.3a Unregistered
 * Origin: Todd's Spot in the Continuum (1:202/720.3)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 101 of 135
 From : Michael Harper                      1:123/10        .òp 18 .þí 96 08:11
 To   : Bob Klahn
 Subj : LOIS AND CLARK
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 -=> Quoting Bob Klahn to Roy Leblanc <=-


 RL> Reminds me to ask if anyone remembers who wrote the essay:
 RL> "Man of Steel, Woman of Kleenex"

 RL> Was it Anderson or Niven?

 BK> Niven, I'm pretty sure.

 Very definitely. Larry has piles of stories to tell about that one
 little essay...

 My favorite is still the one about how Kirk Alyn, the original Man of
 Steel, had the fool thing read to him by a young woman he was on the
 same plane with. He's still not sure what she had in mind... ;)


... "The days are just PACKED!" - Calvin
--- RA/FD/FMail
 * Origin: The Eclectic Fox -- Memphis TN  (901)327-1008 (1:123/10)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 102 of 135
 From : Michael Harper                      1:123/10        .òp 18 .þí 96 08:11
 To   : Frank Swarbrick
 Subj : Pretty good?
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 KS> Not watching Babylon 5?  Give it a try - it may be hard to figure out
 KS> at  first given as by this time you've missed the first 2 1/2 years of
 KS> the  story, but it's pretty good.

 FS> Pretty good???  This is all you can say about it????  :-)

 He wouldn't have believed her if Kay'd told him how good the show
 really is... ;)


... I'm a professional.  I *know* what I'm doing. <The Doctor>
--- RA/FD/FMail
 * Origin: The Eclectic Fox -- Memphis TN  (901)327-1008 (1:123/10)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 103 of 135
 From : Nicolai Shapero                     1:102/524       .òp 18 .þí 96 05:33
 To   : Tim Childree
 Subj : How To Have A New Life In Christ
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Jun 16 15:58>, Tim Childree (1:3613/4) wrote to All:

 TC> * Crossposted from: General Messages


 TC>THIS IS WHAT THE BIBLE TELLS US:

[off topic post deleted]

This is the SFFAN conference, not the BIBLE conference.  Please do NOT post off
topic messages here -- the subject of this conference is Science Fiction and SF
Fandom.

-- Nicolai Shapero, Moderator of the SFFAN echo

--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 104 of 135
 From : Nicolai Shapero                     1:102/524       .òp 18 .þí 96 05:34
 To   : Frank Swarbrick
 Subj : Space Above & Beyond
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Jun 15 22:31>, Frank Swarbrick (1:104/825) wrote to Nicolai Shapero:

 FS> 23.  124  Jun  2, 1996  "...Tell Our Moms We Done Our Best"
 FS>(Part 2 of 2)

 FS>Still, I really don't see that it was an intentional "dig" at
 FS>anyone.

Seems like the title of the last episode was something of a double entendre.

 S>I doubt they knew they were cancelled at the time they filmed and
 FS>titled the episode...  (Though I suppose they could have changed
 FS>it...)

My guess is that they intended to use 'em as season finale and first episode of
second season.  And when they got cancelled, they changed the ending just a
trifle.

-- Nicolai Shapero, the Mad Russian Sysop of StormGate Aerie

--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 105 of 135
 From : Kay Shapero                         1:102/524       .òp 18 .þí 96 08:26
 To   : Roy Stevens
 Subj : INCONSISTENT SHADOWS.
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Jun 14 21:32>, Roy Stevens (1:108/205) wrote to David Johnston:

 RS>I think there's been some significant changes in the last 30
 RS>years. To name a few: VCRs, Microwave Ovens, Answering Machines, PCs,
 RS>Landing on the Moon, cellular phones, digital satelite tv, cable tv,
 RS>special effects, etc.  While some of these may have been available more
 RS>than 30 years ago, they definately weren't omnipresent.  Still, I can't
 RS>wait for nano-technology to get here ;)

It's started already, with the domestication of the microbe for production of
things like human insulin.

Be it also noted that reasonably accurate weather prediction is a function of
such things as weather satelites, which are also of recent origin.  30 years
ago, we didn't have those things (I was 15 at the time) and weather prediction
was still pretty much by guess and by golly.  Tracking of hurricanes alone has
saved a LOT of lives in the past 30 years.

Leave us also consider photocopy machines; coupled with the computer I can do
desk-top printing that would have boggled the mind in 1965.  (Heck, I recall
doing school reports where I had to decide whether or not it was worth retyping
3 pages to fix a lame construction or a typo... and how delighted I was when
white-out was invented.)  I compare the first (mimeo, ragged edge, typed on
stencil, typoes and all) issue of the zine I've been publishing for the last 20
years with the latest one.. and the difference is staggering.

One of my favorite books as a child was an album of Chesley Bonestell
illustrations of the planets of the solar system.  MY kid can look at a
collection of close up PHOTOGRAPHS of most of the planets of the solar system.
That's a function of the last 30 years too...  (We're even back to the weather;
meteorologists have learned from watching weather patterns on Jupiter...)

--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 106 of 135
 From : Todd Sullivan                       1:202/720.3     .òp 18 .þí 96 17:59
 To   : Lawrence E Dunlap
 Subj : Robert A. Heinlein
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Reports from the Interior indicate that Lawrence E Dunlap leaked the following
to me, re: Robert A. Heinlein


 LED> Obviously if it wasn't his own project, Heinlein *could* quit it.

From the tone of his writing (and "Grumbles" is mostly correspondence) I got the
feeling that it started out as a daring and ground-breaking movie, but was
dumbed-down beyond his ability to cope.  RAH never talked down to his audience,
and didn't want to be part of something that did, if only in small doses.

Todd Sullivan

... "And now the Famous Celebrity Telethon goes after that worst of killers:
     Natural Causes."

-*- ASTG 1.9

--- Spot 1.3a Unregistered
 * Origin: Todd's Spot in the Continuum (1:202/720.3)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 107 of 135
 From : Glenn Shaheen                       1:3600/7        .òp 18 .þí 96 02:07
 To   : Jeff Hancock
 Subj : cancelled
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

JH>There are still people out there - and probably in here too - who think
JH>that (as an example) Star Trek: The Original Series beats the living
JH>Exon out of TNG, DS9, and Voyager combined.  There are any number of
JH>cancelled series which still have rabid fans that will put it up against
JH>any series now or ever on the tube, and it's practically guaranteed that
JH>long after Babylon 5 has quit the airwaves (which will happen in two
JH>years ANYWAY), every SF show will still get compared to it by somebody.

        Yeah, but every SHOW is compared to Star Trek in one
manifestation.


JH>The only thing it could mean is that Trek has the potential to make
JH>episode that would, in some way, be better then any of the other B5
JH>episodes to date (although that seems highly unlikely), and even then
JH>people would still bring up the vast library of episodes which were NOT
JH>worth watching.  When you compare the series as a whole, B5 has a lot
JH>more going for it in terms of quality, while Trek has a hell of a lot
JH>more fans because it's more accessable, has been around for thirty-odd
JH>years, and doesn't require the viewer to think too hard. ;)

        Obviously you haven't been watching ds9 lately. At first I
hated the show, the episodes all were unplausible and the actors didn't
seem to click. After the first or second season though they started to
build long storylines that would effect episode to episode kind of like
b5 supposedly does. Lately the show has been excellent, with the
exception of the odd terrible episode. I saw the pilot of b5 and loved
it a long time ago, but I just didn't think it worked well as a series.
I saw a few of the early episodes, but they were unbearable. Even the
news one you suggested I watch was godawful. Maybe I just see all the
wrong episodes, all you people can't be wrong, or maybe It's just not my
type of show. As for effects, I've always felt a model works much better
than computer graphics on television, because with a tv shows budget and
minimal time to work models seem to do a much better job. At the cinema
it's a different story because they have more time and more money to
work with. I gave B5 a fair chance and it failed.

-=-
 * OLX 2.2 * "I ordered Rocky Road, not Chocolate Almond", I screamed.

--- SLMAIL v3.5C  (#1540)
 * Origin: Robotech þ Lake City's Music*Demo BBS þ [904] 758*9477 (1:3600/7)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 108 of 135
 From : Glenn Shaheen                       1:3600/7        .òp 18 .þí 96 02:26
 To   : Kay Shapero
 Subj : cancelled
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

KS>Because Babylon 5 happens to be a very good show completely on its own
KS>merits.  It has no connection with any other TV space shows and you are
KS>certainly free to enjoy them too.  This whole "rivalry" business is silly
KS>I mean, back when "The Outer Limits" came along after "The Twilight Zone"
KS>had been running for years, the fans of the latter didn't start ragging o
KS>the fans of the former or vice versa - we all watched BOTH of them.

        I just lose it when Babylon 5 fans start saying that Deep Space
Nine ripped them off, and how it's a brainless show for the type of
people who get a kick out of roseanne.
-=-
 * OLX 2.2 * "I prefer to call it the Prime Suggestion." * Capt. Kirk

--- SLMAIL v3.5C  (#1540)
 * Origin: Robotech þ Lake City's Music*Demo BBS þ [904] 758*9477 (1:3600/7)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 109 of 135
 From : Mark Jones                          1:105/302.47    .åò 13 .þí 96 23:23
 To   : Bob Klahn
 Subj : INCONSISTENT SHADOWS.
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On (12 Jun 96) Bob Klahn wrote to Frank Glover...

 FG> And how much do we *want* to accept uncritically from ET's? In
 FG> David Brin's Uplift Universe, Earthers were notorious for
 FG> continuing to conduct their own research and exploration, rather
 FG> than rely on the Galactic Library....
 BK>
 BK> Otherwise know as "reinventing the wheel." Sorta like the Apache
 BK> deciding to invent the rifle for themselves. Instead of nearly
 BK> wiped out, they would have been totally wiped out.

   Not exactly.  Earthlings were willing to use the library--we just
didn't put absolute faith in it's reliability.  (Technology we invent
ourselves--even if only because we got the basic idea from the
library--will have few surprises.  We'll *understand* it.  Many of the
alien races in the Uplift Universe simply accept that Device A will
have Effect B without knowing or caring how it happens.)


--- PPoint 1.78
 * Origin: Folcroft Sanitarium (hsmith@cure.com) (1:105/302.47)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 110 of 135
 From : Frank Swarbrick                     1:104/825       .îí 17 .þí 96 20:49
 To   : Roy Stevens
 Subj : SAAB Cancellation
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12  92-0022
On 06-14-96  21:22, shipwrecked and comatose, Roy Stevens said:

 FS> FS> Yeah, I saw that.  Bummer.  And neither was Space: Above and Beyond,
 FS> JH> another show that was just starting to get really good.  Argh!
 FS> JH> Another victim of poor programming. Putting *any* new show up
 FS> JH> against popular, well-liked shows like Mad About You is suicide.

 FS>SAAB wasn't really up against Mad About You.  It was an hour earlier. Up
 FS>against 60 Minutes!

 RS> My biggest problem was that FOX would say it starts at 7:00 and then
 RS> show it whenever they got around to it. Lousy football! :<  Apparently
 RS> since people couldn't watch what they didn't show, they decided nobody
 RS> wanted to.

Yeah, that stupid football is annoying.  Here in Colorado SAAB was
only delayed once, that I know of, because of it, but in other time
zones I know it's delayed a lot.  I hate sports on TV, and that just
makes it all the much worse.  Keep the sports on ESPN and PSN, and
leave the networks for regular shows, I say!

And guess what... The X-Files is moving to Sundays this fall.  Argh!
It won't be the early show like SAAB was, but football is just as
likely to delay it.  The only good thing I can say for it being moved
to Sunday is it's give me a good excuse to not let anyone in the house
watch the "disease of the week" movie on the other networks.  Heh heh.

        Frank

... Let them eat static!
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12
 * Origin: The Bailey Information Exchange BBS, 28.8k v.fc  (1:104/825.0)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 111 of 135
 From : Leman Russ                          1:2250/7        .òp 18 .þí 96 14:34
 To   : Kay Shapero
 Subj : Re: TV shows
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
I'm not too pleased with the new Ol either, but they've done a few good ones,
just a few. The remake of "I, robot" was OK, and I liked the one about the alien
coolant unit running amok.

 The one about the aliens who needed dead human bodies to inhabit was alright.
Iwish they'd remake "Soldier" and "Demon with a glass hand".

>:[

--- DLG Pro v1.0/DLGMail
 * Origin: Sage's Tower - Amiga - (618) 259-1844 (1:2250/7)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 112 of 135
 From : Frank Glover                        1:2613/477      .pä 19 .þí 96 22:10
 To   : Michael Harper
 Subj : Re: LOIS AND CLARK
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

MH>   My favorite is still the one about how Kirk Alyn, the original Man
MH>  of
MH>   Steel, had the fool thing read to him by a young woman he was on the
MH>   same plane with. He's still not sure what she had in mind... ;)

   Cool! It would be interesting to know what Chris Reeve and Dean Cain think of
it....

   (Though in the movies, they realized they'd have to strip Supes of his powers
first. Wonder if the writers/directors read Niven? And in recent episodes,
Dean's Superman [a tacitly acknowledged virgin] came pretty close to the act.
Should be interesting to see if they'll acknowledge the possible risks, too.)

   Frank


--- QuickBBS 2.80 GoldBase (Zeta-2.0a)
 * Origin: The Matrix Data Bank BBS, Rochester, Ny (1:2613/477)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 113 of 135
 From : Kay Shapero                         1:102/524       .pä 19 .þí 96 12:48
 To   : Leman Russ
 Subj : Why is this board so slow?
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Jun 17 05:14>, Leman Russ (1:2250/7) wrote to All:

 LR> This echo averages 10 or so messages a day, while the science
 LR>fiction fidonet echo averages over 40 on weekdays, and from what

It's a variable.  Sometimes there's lots more traffic in here than others.

--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 114 of 135
 From : Frank Swarbrick                     1:104/825       .òp 18 .þí 96 21:52
 To   : Don Godfrey
 Subj : Re: SPACE:  ABOVE AND BEY
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On 06-17-96  08:23, shipwrecked and comatose, Don Godfrey said:

 FS>  KS> On <Jun 11 06:28>, Don Godfrey (1:203/125) wrote to Earl Green:

 FS>  KS> Not watching Babylon 5?  Give it a try - it may be hard to figure
 DG> out
 FS>  KS> at  first given as by this time you've missed the first 2 1/2
 DG> years of
 FS>  KS> the  story, but it's pretty good.
 FS>
 FS> Pretty good???  This is all you can say about it????  :-)

 DG> Yeah,  It is only "pretty good" in my opinion.  I still think that
 DG> Space Above and Beyond was one of the best Sci Fi shows out there!

Hmm, I would say just the opposite.  I find SAAB to be "pretty good"
and B5 to be *the* best show (SF or otherwise) out there.

        Frank

... There was a fish...in the percolator.
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

--- ViaMAIL!/WC5 v1.00b
 * Origin: ViaMAIL! - Bringing New Life to FTSC Mail  (1:104/825)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 115 of 135
 From : Bob Klahn                           1:234/2         .pä 19 .þí 96 17:25
 To   : Patrick Long
 Subj : B5 TECH
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 PL> When judged by _human_ values, perhaps so.  Are human values so
 PL> superior?  As I understand it, as a general rule, Mimbari do not kill
 PL> Mimbari...

 As a general rule, humans do not kill humans.

 Very few actually do, which is one reason it is considered such a serious
 crime.

BOB KLAHN

... Take two Chill Pills, and call me in the morning!
 * Silver Xpress V4.3P RB10275

--- FLAME v1.1
 * Origin: Telnet toltbbs.com or call 313-854-6001, Boardwatch #55 (1:234/2)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 116 of 135
 From : Glenn Shaheen                       1:3600/7        .òp 18 .þí 96 15:31
 To   : Leman Russ
 Subj : cancelled
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

LR> I agfree with you about being tired of the BABYlonians going on about ho
LR>much better B5 is than DS9, and am sick ofthem too even if I do sort of
LR>like the show. I'd still like it to get canned early just to shut them an
LR>their trek bashing up.

        Yeah, I don't care about their incessant babyling until they
trash Trek.


LR> BTW, I thought your tagline was siiiiiiiiick.

        I can't remember what it was, sorry.

-=-
 * OLX 2.2 * "I used to be a pilot", Tom explained.

--- SLMAIL v3.5C  (#1540)
 * Origin: Robotech þ Lake City's Music*Demo BBS þ [904] 758*9477 (1:3600/7)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 117 of 135
 From : Richard Hudson                      1:141/450       .îí 10 .þí 96 03:18
 To   : Mark Jones
 Subj : White star = the defiant
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

MJ>On (01 Jun 96) Todd Sullivan wrote to Mark Jones...

MJ> MJ> FAILURE. "Overgunned and overpowered..." (If not *the* stupidest
MJ> MJ> words ever spoken in Star Trek, they're in the top ten....

MJ> TS> Not from the point of view of Roddenberry, who said that Starfleet was
MJ> TS> made up of explorers and scientists.

MJ>But the Defiant was designed as a *warship* -- nothing more and
MJ>nothing less.  If they had decided they didn't need single-purpose
MJ>warships after the Borg were defeated, I could accept that.  But
MJ>that's not what they said.  They said that the Defiant was
MJ>"overpowered and overgunned" and thus flawed.  Which is silly.

MJ>A vessel with more firepower than other ships many times its size, and
MJ>with sufficient power to run at warp speed *and* run the shields *and*
MJ>fire all those weapons is what you WANT in a warship.

MJ> TS> Defiant was so single-mindedly designed that they ignored things like
MJ> TS> habitability, which parallels the Los Angeles (SSN-688) attack
MJ> TS> submarines, now that I think of it.

MJ>Defiant is unsuitable for long-term deep-space exploration--but then,
MJ>that's not what it was designed for.  It is admirably suited for its
MJ>intended mission:  heavy combat.


MJ>--- PPoint 1.78
MJ> * Origin: Folcroft Sanitarium (hsmith@cure.com) (1:105/302.47)

But the Problem with the Defiant is that was a very UNSTABLE ship that
could have blown itself Until Chief O'brien worked all the bugs our of
it.

Richard Hudson

President Of Hail to the Chief
A Fido net/Terok Nor EchoFanClub

___
 X SLMR 2.1a X Backup not found: (A)bort (R)etry (P)anic

--- Maximus 3.00
 * Origin: The Pleasure Palace BBS (1:141/450)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 118 of 135
 From : Brandon Wolgast                     1:363/281       .åò 20 .þí 96 02:02
 To   : Kay Shapero
 Subj : Space Title
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE/32 1.2

KS> BW>I did watch the second to last Space episode, but missed about
KS> BW>the first
KS> BW>10 minutes and was wondering if anyone knew the title of it?
KS> BW>

KS>"Tell Our Moms We Did Our Best"

That was the final episode, I meant the one before that, or was that
just called the same thing since it was a "to be continued..."?

***
 * OLX 2.1 * Press "+" to see another tagline.



--- Use the FORCE!!!
 * Origin: Feduberator * STAR WARS Support * (407)381-2798 (1:363/281)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 119 of 135
 From : Frank Glover                        1:2613/477      .åò 20 .þí 96 21:21
 To   : Mark Jones
 Subj : Re: INCONSISTENT SHADOWS.
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

MJ>   FG> And how much do we *want* to accept uncritically from ET's? In
MJ>   FG> David Brin's Uplift Universe, Earthers were notorious for
MJ>   FG> continuing to conduct their own research and exploration, rather
MJ>   FG> than rely on the Galactic Library....
MJ>   BK>
MJ>   BK> Otherwise know as "reinventing the wheel." Sorta like the Apache
MJ>   BK> deciding to invent the rifle for themselves. Instead of nearly
MJ>   BK> wiped out, they would have been totally wiped out.
MJ>
MJ>     Not exactly.  Earthlings were willing to use the library--we just
MJ>  didn't put absolute faith in it's reliability.  (Technology we invent
MJ>  ourselves--even if only because we got the basic idea from the
MJ>  library--will have few surprises.  We'll *understand* it.  Many of
MJ>  the
MJ>  alien races in the Uplift Universe simply accept that Device A will
MJ>  have Effect B without knowing or caring how it happens.)

   Agreed. As opposed to Niven's Known Space Universe where technology like the
hyperdrive and stasis fields were obtained from other sources, but we kept
working on the engineering and physics involved until we understood both, and
could reliably reproduce, and even improve (as in the Long Shot's level II
hyperdrive in Ringworld) on them....

   Frank


--- QuickBBS 2.80 GoldBase (Zeta-2.0a)
 * Origin: The Matrix Data Bank BBS, Rochester, Ny (1:2613/477)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 120 of 135
 From : Peter Jones                         1:2613/313      .åò 20 .þí 96 18:32
 To   : All
 Subj : stuff
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Greetings earthlings...
#1 - Saw a Cheers episode today w/ Kristen Clocke aka Vansen from SAAB
#2 - Somebody help me out here - I've seen a few episodes of Babylon 5,
but I don't get the plot.  Someone please tell me what's happened since
the old commander left - Why did he?  Why does that Menbari chick have
hair?  What's up with the Centauri and the Norn?  What's that thing in
the big suit?  What are those big black spidery looking ships?  Thanks
in advance.
#3 - I saw somebody in here saying they had a synopsis of the next Star
Trek movie.  As a Ferengi would say "I'm all ears" (sad joke, all groan)
Really though, I'd love to hear it.  Thanks again.

And now I must depart this place,
And head out into deepest space...

Pete

--- QScan/PCB v1.17b / 01-0406
 * Origin: Knight Moves - Rochester,NY 716-865-2106 (1:2613/313)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 121 of 135
 From : Mark Jones                          1:105/302.47    .îí 17 .þí 96 23:25
 To   : Leman Russ
 Subj : B5 tech
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On (Fri 14 Ju) Leman Russ wrote to All...

 LR>  Also I don't think the mimbs are all that advanced mentally,
 LR> spiritually or morally.
 LR>
 LR>  They were stupidenough to come charging at an unknown (earth) ship
 LR> with their gunports open, which just about forces the other guy to
 LR> fire at you before you fire at him.

   Hypothetical Scenario:  A western european knight finds himself in
midieval Japan.  Having decided to offer his respects to the local
warlord, he steps forward and DRAWS HIS SWORDS in order to lay it at
the warlord's feet.
   The warlord's samurai see this armed stranger step forward and DRAW
HIS SWORD.  They fast-draw their katanas and slice him into sushi.

   Was the knight "stupid"?  No--merely ignorant.  He acted in
accordance with the customs of his people...and so did the Japanese.
The customs simply happen to be different.
   These things happen.

 LR>  Then they were immature enough to serioulsy attempt genocide,
 LR> including the mass slaughter of defenseless people, including
 LR> children, because one oftheir leaders was killed.

   Very few cultures are "advanced" enough not to become angry when
the enemy deliberately violates a sacred custom--such as firing on and
destroying an ambassadorial vessel (which is how they saw it when the
Earthforce warship destroyed the Mimbari flagship).
   Notice, also, that they *didn't* commit genocide.  They *could*
have, but they didn't.


--- PPoint 1.78
 * Origin: Folcroft Sanitarium (hsmith@cure.com) (1:105/302.47)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 122 of 135
 From : Mark Jones                          1:105/302.47    .pä 19 .þí 96 21:33
 To   : Kay Shapero
 Subj : THEN AND NOW...
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On (18 Jun 96) Kay Shapero wrote to Roy Stevens...

 KS> It's started already, with the domestication of the microbe for
 KS> production of things like human insulin.

We've also got tiny little critters (e. coli? -- I'm not sure) trained
to produce spider silk.  It's made in sheets and forms the basis of
spider-silk body armor, lighter and more flexible with even more
resistance to penetration than kevlar and similar fibers.

 KS> Be it also noted that reasonably accurate weather prediction is a
 KS> function of such things as weather satelites...

And nobody need ever be lost at sea or in the wilderness again, thanks
to satellites--global positioning satellites--and personal
transponders.  Not to mention *global* cell-phone systems.

 KS> Leave us also consider photocopy machines; coupled with the
 KS> computer I can do desk-top printing that would have boggled the
 KS> mind in 1965.

And its only going to get more amazing.  (I predict that within 10
years, Paramount Studios will be producing *new* episodes of the
original Star Trek with the ORIGINAL CAST, looking just as they did at
their best in the 60's.  And Paramount won't be alone.)

 KS> One of my favorite books as a child was an album of Chesley
 KS> Bonestell illustrations of the planets of the solar system. MY
 KS> kid can look at a collection of close up PHOTOGRAPHS of most of
 KS> the planets of the solar system.

Your *teenager* will probably be able to look at photographs of
planets in OTHER star systems.  We now know of at least three other
systems with planets....


--- PPoint 1.78
 * Origin: Folcroft Sanitarium (hsmith@cure.com) (1:105/302.47)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 123 of 135
 From : Brion Lienhart                      1:213/700.2     .åò 20 .þí 96 13:53
 To   : Mark Jones
 Subj : INCONSISTENT SHADOWS.
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On Thu Jun 13, Mark Jones said to Bob Klahn:

 BK> Otherwise know as "reinventing the wheel." Sorta like the Apache
 BK> deciding to invent the rifle for themselves. Instead of nearly
 BK> wiped out, they would have been totally wiped out.

 -MJ>   Not exactly.  Earthlings were willing to use the library--we just
 -MJ>didn't put absolute faith in it's reliability.  (Technology we invent
 -MJ>ourselves--even if only because we got the basic idea from the
 -MJ>library--will have few surprises.  We'll *understand* it.  Many of the
 -MJ>alien races in the Uplift Universe simply accept that Device A will
 -MJ>have Effect B without knowing or caring how it happens.)

There's also the discovery that

========= SPOILER WILL ROBINSON!! SPOILER!!!=================




















The Library is deliberately slanted against the "troublesome" races like we
humans and the Timbrinii (sp?), if not actually lying. Also in _Sundiver_ we
found out that the Library _doesn't_ know everything, nothing in it at all about
life forms on the surface of a star.




--- QM v1.31
 * Origin: Ministry of Peace - Carson City, NV (1:213/700.2)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 124 of 135
 From : Robin Johnson                       1:112/81        .åò 20 .þí 96 23:52
 To   : Robert Parson
 Subj : RE: PINKY AND THE BRAIN
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 RP> The WB is on WGN, which may or may not be on Primestar.  But you
 RP> better check fast, since P/B is soon to be history.  We can only hope
 RP> for a midseason pickup.
 RP> * Silver Xpress V4.3 SW23473
 RP>
 RP> -!- QScan/PCB v1.19b / 01-0162
 RP>  ! Origin: Jackalope Junction 501-785-5381 Ft Smith AR (1:3822/1)

 You mean we will be losing them??? Why? What happened. I love watching
 them...they're hilarious...

 Nightfall


... Helllooooo Nurse!
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

--- TriToss (tm) Professional 10.0 - (Unregistered)
 * Origin: The IrOn EaGle Bbs * 904-278-3131 * Jax, Florida (1:112/81.0)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 125 of 135
 From : Brion Lienhart                      1:213/700.2     .ÿò 21 .þí 96 13:28
 To   : Frank Glover
 Subj : Re: INCONSISTENT SHADOWS.
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On Thu Jun 20, Frank Glover said to Mark Jones:

 -FG>   Agreed. As opposed to Niven's Known Space Universe where technology
 -FG>like the hyperdrive and stasis fields were obtained from other
 -FG>sources, but we kept working on the engineering and physics involved
 -FG>until we understood both, and could reliably reproduce, and even
 -FG>improve (as in the Long Shot's level II hyperdrive in Ringworld) on
 -FG>them....

Actually, IIRC the Puppeteers were the ones that came up with the Quantum II
hyperdrive. They just used humans as pilots because A) humans are lucky, and 2)
puppeteers are chicken.




--- QM v1.31
 * Origin: Ministry of Peace - Carson City, NV (1:213/700.2)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 126 of 135
 From : Frank Glover                        1:2613/477      .ÿò 21 .þí 96 21:04
 To   : Mark Jones
 Subj : Re: THEN AND NOW...
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

MJ>  And its only going to get more amazing.  (I predict that within 10
MJ>  years, Paramount Studios will be producing *new* episodes of the
MJ>  original Star Trek with the ORIGINAL CAST, looking just as they did
MJ>  at
MJ>  their best in the 60's.  And Paramount won't be alone.)

   I think it'll be a little more than 10 years before computer animation is
quite that good, buut I see what you're saying. (In his novel `Earth,' David
Brin makes references to adding new scenes to existing Trek episodes,
seamlessly, in htis manner. Of course, if you can be this convincing, do you
need the real actors at all? Shades of `Looker....')

MJ>   KS> One of my favorite books as a child was an album of Chesley
MJ>   KS> Bonestell illustrations of the planets of the solar system. MY
MJ>   KS> kid can look at a collection of close up PHOTOGRAPHS of most of
MJ>   KS> the planets of the solar system.
MJ>
MJ>  Your *teenager* will probably be able to look at photographs of
MJ>  planets in OTHER star systems.  We now know of at least three other
MJ>  systems with planets....

   And said teenager may be able to *vacation* on the Moon, and one or two of
our own planets, at somepoint in his life. (Assuming today's average lifespan,
of course. This, too, is subject to change...)

   Frank


--- QuickBBS 2.80 GoldBase (Zeta-2.0a)
 * Origin: The Matrix Data Bank BBS, Rochester, Ny (1:2613/477)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 127 of 135
 From : Todd Sullivan                       1:202/720.3     .åò 20 .þí 96 18:08
 To   : Bill Warren
 Subj : Heinlein
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Reports from the Interior indicate that Bill Warren leaked the following to
Lawrence E Dunlap, re: Heinlein

 LE>>  There isn't much on American TV to justify his faith in the ability
 LE>>  of humanity to rise above the more primal areas of behavior, but RA H
 LE>>  had it and lived it to some point of an end.

 BW> But Heinlein's writing for TV was almost >entirely< in the 1950s.

RAH did no writing for TV.  He did some script work on a movie.  Once. His
chosen medium was print.

You're thinking of his segment on Edward R Murrow's "This I Believe" show, IIRC,
and that was radio.

Todd Sullivan

... He does the work of 3 Men...Moe, Larry & Curly.

-*- ASTG 1.9

--- Spot 1.3a Unregistered
 * Origin: Todd's Spot in the Continuum (1:202/720.3)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 128 of 135
 From : Glenn Shaheen                       1:3600/7        .pä 19 .þí 96 22:49
 To   : Todd Sullivan
 Subj : B5 renewed
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

TS>Them's the breaks.  For the longest time Paramount's been able to allow l
TS>grade material to be foisted off on an unsuspecting public, and the viewe
TS>bought into that nonsense.  It's about time the tables were turned, IMO,
TS>and I've watched all of Trek's renditions from 1965 onwards.  I *know*
TS>there's been a loss of quality, and it /wasn't/ in the effects department

        See? No comparisons, just Trek sucks, b5 rules. There's been
no loss. Maybe you're looking for a good dukes up fist fight? Is that
what's lost? Well, sometimes shows can be more intellectual, with
deeper meanings and messages than "They're gonna attack the Earth with
some conspiracy and sabotage the babylon project." I'm not for all that
50s serial style show razmataz. Maybe the makers of b5 can't come up
with multiple good ideas so to compensate for their lack of creativeness
they make one big "super" storyline. That's my rambling JUSTIFIED
opinion. I did like the pilot though.
-=-
 * OLX 2.2 * "I'll pay off that customs official", said Tom dutifully.

--- SLMAIL v3.5C  (#1540)
 * Origin: Robotech þ Lake City's Music*Demo BBS þ [904] 758*9477 (1:3600/7)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 129 of 135
 From : Bob Klahn                           1:234/2         .ÿò 21 .þí 96 20:35
 To   : Mark Jones
 Subj : INCONSISTENT SHADOWS.
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 MJ> On (12 Jun 96) Bob Klahn wrote to Frank Glover...

 FG>> And how much do we *want* to accept uncritically from ET's? In
 FG>> David Brin's Uplift Universe, Earthers were notorious for
 FG>> continuing to conduct their own research and exploration, rather
 FG>> than rely on the Galactic Library....
 BK>>
 BK>> Otherwise know as "reinventing the wheel." Sorta like the Apache
 BK>> deciding to invent the rifle for themselves. Instead of nearly
 BK>> wiped out, they would have been totally wiped out.

 MJ>    Not exactly.  Earthlings were willing to use the library--we just
 MJ> didn't put absolute faith in it's reliability.  (Technology we invent

 Ok, now it makes more sense.

 MJ> ourselves--even if only because we got the basic idea from the
 MJ> library--will have few surprises.  We'll *understand* it.  Many of the
 MJ> alien races in the Uplift Universe simply accept that Device A will
 MJ> have Effect B without knowing or caring how it happens.)

 Just as people used to build color TVs from kits when they could buy an
 equivalent TV off the shelf for about the same price.

BOB KLAHN

... Are you sure (N/N)? *
 * Silver Xpress V4.3P RB10275

--- FLAME v1.1
 * Origin: Telnet toltbbs.com or call 313-854-6001, Boardwatch #55 (1:234/2)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 130 of 135
 From : Bob Klahn                           1:234/2         .ÿò 21 .þí 96 20:35
 To   : Frank Swarbrick
 Subj : SPACE:  ABOVE AND BEY
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 DG>> Yeah,  It is only "pretty good" in my opinion.  I still think that
 DG>> Space Above and Beyond was one of the best Sci Fi shows out there!

 FS> Hmm, I would say just the opposite.  I find SAAB to be "pretty good"
 FS> and B5 to be *the* best show (SF or otherwise) out there.

 I find both to be excellent.

BOB KLAHN

... A dirty mind is a terrible thing to waste.
 * Silver Xpress V4.3P RB10275

--- FLAME v1.1
 * Origin: Telnet toltbbs.com or call 313-854-6001, Boardwatch #55 (1:234/2)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 131 of 135
 From : David Johnston                      1:342/14        .óá 22 .þí 96 00:53
 To   : Peter Jones
 Subj : Stuff
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
-> #2 - Somebody help me out here - I've seen a few episodes of Babylon
-> 5, but I don't get the plot.  Someone please tell me what's happened
-> since the old commander left - Why did he?  Why does that Menbari
-> chick have hair?  What's up with the Centauri and the Norn?  What's
-> that thing in the big suit?  What are those big black spidery looking
-> ships?  Thanks in advance.

The Mimbari asked him to come be Earth's ambassador to Mimbar, as a
cover for his receiving an extensive education in Mimbari ways because
of Sinclair's "Mimbari soul".  As it turns out, Sinclair really does
qualify as an incarnation of a Mimbari.  Go fig.

The big black spider ships belong to a race of hostile critters known as
the Shadows.  They are very advanced and have vaguely parasitic
tendencies.  The Shadows made an alliance with Molari that enabled the
Centauri to conquer the Narns, who are now good guys.
The Shadows are, incidentally, big enemies of the Vorlons and Mimbari
from way back when.


Delenn grew hair as part of a metamorphosis in which she turned herself
into something that could interbreed with a human...which apparently is
what she intends to do.

Which thing in a big suit?

Incidentally the Shadows have also infiltrated the Earth Alliance, and
under their guidance, it has been turned into an evil dictatorship.
However, a civil war is being fought to possibly overthrow the Shadow
puppets.

--- PCBoard (R) v15.21/100
 * Origin: Freddy's Place - Edm. AB - 33.6K (403) 413-3460 (1:342/14)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 132 of 135
 From : Aaron Boyden                        1:206/2720      .óá 22 .þí 96 02:14
 To   : Frank Glover
 Subj : INCONSISTENT SHADOWS.
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.GMD: 1:396/1

 >    Agreed. As opposed to Niven's Known Space Universe
 > where technology like the hyperdrive and stasis fields
 > were obtained from other sources, but we kept working
 > on the engineering and physics involved until we
 > understood both, and could reliably reproduce, and
 > even improve (as in the Long Shot's level II
 > hyperdrive in Ringworld) on them....

The Long Shot was built by the puppeteers.


--- TosScan(q) 1.00
 * Origin: Remember:  Cthulhu Cthaves!  -Campus Crusade for Cthulhu (1:206/2720)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 133 of 135
 From : Kay Shapero                         1:102/524       .ÿò 21 .þí 96 07:48
 To   : Glenn Shaheen
 Subj : Babylon 5
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Jun 18 02:26>, Glenn Shaheen (1:3600/7) wrote to Kay Shapero:

 GS>        I just lose it when Babylon 5 fans start saying that Deep
 GS>Space Nine ripped them off, and how it's a brainless show for the type
GS>of people who get a kick out of roseanne.

Yeah, the two statements are sort of mutually exclusive, aren't they?  Mind you,
since JMS was trying to sell B5 for five or so years before the TV movie
appeared, and had been to most of the studios it's entirely possible that his
project was what suggested the idea of a space station based series to someone.
And the original description of DS9 did sound a lot like parts of the summary of
B5 he was circulating, so part of their motives could have been a Disney-style
preemptive strike.  But hardly all of them - you just don't go to that kind of
expense unless you're sure your concept has merit on it's own terms.  And DS9
does, so the result is another entertaining show. I much prefer B5 at the moment
(mostly I suspect because it's like being in the middle of a really good episode
that is five years long), but I've enjoyed DS9 episodes too, notably that one
where they accidentally triggered the old Terok Nor security system and not even
Gul Dukat could shut it off. (You could just see the rest of the bridge crew
wondering if the look on his face wasn't almost worth getting blown up. :->)

B5 *is* more likely to influence DS9 than vice versa, because the latter has the
advantage of being composed of independant episodes or short multi-episode
sequences rather than being planned out for an entire predetermined run.  B5
can't go too far off in directions unexpected by the creator though of course it
can still surprise the rest of us.

(Incidentally, I've seen at least as many attacks of B5 as being some kind of ST
rip off as vice versa.  It says more about the sort of fans who feel they must
have some sort of antagonistic relationship with anything that isn't their
particular narrow fixation than about the merits of either show.)


--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 134 of 135
 From : Kay Shapero                         1:102/524       .ÿò 21 .þí 96 07:47
 To   : Leman Russ
 Subj : Outer LImits
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Jun 18 14:34>, Leman Russ (1:2250/7) wrote to Kay Shapero:

 LR> The one about the aliens who needed dead human bodies to inhabit
 LR>was alright. Iwish they'd remake "Soldier" and "Demon with a
 LR>glass hand".
>:[

I don't - the originals were just fine.  Be more fun to see originals of the
same caliber.

--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [21] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 135 of 135
 From : Kay Shapero                         1:102/524       .ÿò 21 .þí 96 07:59
 To   : Mark Jones
 Subj : Brin's Uplift Universe
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Jun 13 23:23>, Mark Jones (1:105/302.47) wrote to Bob Klahn:

 MJ>   Not exactly.  Earthlings were willing to use the library--we
 MJ>just didn't put absolute faith in it's reliability.  (Technology we
 MJ>invent ourselves--even if only because we got the basic idea from the
 MJ>library--will have few surprises.  We'll *understand* it.  Many
 MJ>of the alien races in the Uplift Universe simply accept that Device A
 MJ>will have Effect B without knowing or caring how it happens.)

Also nobody's perfect, regardless of how long they've been kicking around the
universe.  Just like on Earth, the library can be expected to have the
occasional error that nobody's ever happened to spot because they never checked
it out for themselves.

--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 1 of 152
 From : Robert Parson                       1:3822/1        .óá 22 .þí 96 22:47
 To   : Robin Johnson
 Subj : RE: PINKY AND THE BRAIN
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
ROBIN had a few words to say about Re: PINKY AND THE BRAIN

 RP>> better check fast, since P/B is soon to be history.
 RJ>
 RJ>  You mean we will be losing them??? Why? What happened. I love watching
 RJ>  them...they're hilarious...

Apparently you and I were the only ones watching.  They're goners, but I
imagine they'll be hacking the episodes up and including them with
Animaniacs.


... Narf!
 * Silver Xpress V4.3 SW23473

--- QScan/PCB v1.19b / 01-0162
 * Origin: Jackalope Junction 501-785-5381 Ft Smith AR (1:3822/1)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 2 of 152
 From : Barton Paul Levenson                1:129/26        .óá 22 .þí 96 09:55
 To   : Leman Russ
 Subj : Why is this board so slow?
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
S...l...o...w...?

What, do you, uh, mean?  Slow?

Gee.  It seems.  Very fast, moving.  To me.

--- Maximus 3.01
 * Origin: SoundingBoard, Pittsburgh PA (1:129/26)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 3 of 152
 From : Silky Rose                          1:271/390       .cê 23 .þí 96 15:23
 To   : Kim Wheat
 Subj : Local SF
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Sent this once, didn't get a reply, so I thought I'd resend it.

 * Message originally:
     From: Silky Rose
     To  : Kim Wheat
     Date: 06-15-96
     Area: "SF"
 * Forwarded by Silky Rose using RemoteAccess 1.11+

KW>  Saw me trip over the rose bush, huh?? :)

So that was you!  Guess I'm gonna have to get me that Pit Bull
real soon. (grin)

KW>  Wasn't a brunch actually..it was a halloween party and then later
KW>  a 'Meet the Great Kahane' party...both held at FRR Mallory's house!

Sounds like a great time.  So are you volunteering your place
for the next one?

KW>  She even placed different SF books all over the house which made for
KW>  some great conversational talk!  CJ Cherryh in the dining room,

Sounds like she knew how to get things going in the right
direction, a good hostess.

KW>  Niven in the living room..etc!  Of course, JohnK and I parked our
KW>  selves in the kitchen close to the bar and you couldn't move us with
KW>  a crow bar! <g> Our favorite authors that night were Jim Beam and
KW>  Jack Daniels! <g>

Hey they tell some great stories from time to time,unfortunately they can also
tell some tragedies.

Pj

--- FMail 0.94
 * Origin: The Enchanted Garden BBS, Langley AFB, VA (804)766-2192 (1:271/390)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 4 of 152
 From : Silky Rose                          1:271/390       .cê 23 .þí 96 15:25
 To   : Kim Wheat
 Subj : another resend
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
This is another one that I didn't get a reply on.
 * Message originally:
     From: Silky Rose
     To  : Kim Wheat
     Date: 06-17-96
     Area: "SF"
 * Forwarded by Silky Rose using RemoteAccess 1.11+

KW>  Of course! We gotta keep up w/ the Jones', don't we?! :>

But of course.  'Tis not a fun thing to sit on the sidelines and
watch.

BTW, since you seem to now be getting my messages, what did ya
do with that copy of "War of the Oaks" that you were reading a
while back when ya finished with it?  I had sent ya a message
telling ya I wanted it when you were done with it, but never
even got a peep back from ya on that.  Of course that was back
around the time that "hell week" was going on around here and
your reply may have come and gone while I was trying to deal
with things.  If ya still have it I would like to at the very
least borrow it, somehow.  Anyway, I'll catch ya later.

Pj

--- FMail 0.94
 * Origin: The Enchanted Garden BBS, Langley AFB, VA (804)766-2192 (1:271/390)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 5 of 152
 From : Todd Sullivan                       1:202/720.3     .óá 22 .þí 96 19:28
 To   : Robin Johnson
 Subj : PINKY AND THE BRAIN
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Reports from the Interior indicate that Robin Johnson leaked the following to
Robert Parson, re: PINKY AND THE BRAIN

 RP>> The WB is on WGN, which may or may not be on Primestar.  But you
 RP>> better check fast, since P/B is soon to be history.  We can only hope
 RP>> for a midseason pickup.
 RJ>
 RJ>  You mean we will be losing them??? Why? What happened. I love watching
 RJ>  them...they're hilarious...
 RJ>

Not losing them, really.  Their show is going away, but we'll still see P/B on
Anamaniacs.  Apparently, there wasn't enough of an audience for them to have
their own show.

Todd Sullivan

... "Among other evils which being unarmed brings you, it causes you
     to be despised." --Machiavelli

-*- ASTG 1.9

--- Spot 1.3a Unregistered
 * Origin: Todd's Spot in the Continuum (1:202/720.3)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 6 of 152
 From : Leman Russ                          1:2250/7        .óá 22 .þí 96 11:34
 To   : Frank Glover
 Subj : Re: INCONSISTENT SHADOWS.
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 In B5 the hyperdrive was acquired thru the centauri...

>:[

--- DLG Pro v1.0/DLGMail
 * Origin: Sage's Tower - Amiga - (618) 259-1844 (1:2250/7)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 7 of 152
 From : Leman Russ                          1:2250/7        .óá 22 .þí 96 11:37
 To   : Mark Jones
 Subj : Re: B5 tech
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 The mimbarri were supposed to be the most advanced race going, except for the
first ones, and it was their responsibility to rrealize how "less developed"
races might react to the sight of s giant ship charging atthem with itsweapons
ready to use.

 And I still say the mimbs are pretty barbaric to seriously plan genocide over
one incident, andthey WERE planning it untilthey found out that humans were
getting their souls.

>:[

--- DLG Pro v1.0/DLGMail
 * Origin: Sage's Tower - Amiga - (618) 259-1844 (1:2250/7)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 8 of 152
 From : Leman Russ                          1:2250/7        .cê 23 .þí 96 04:46
 To   : Glenn Shaheen
 Subj : Re: B5 renewed
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
you ever think that maybe the montana freemen watched B5 too much?

>:[

--- DLG Pro v1.0/DLGMail
 * Origin: Sage's Tower - Amiga - (618) 259-1844 (1:2250/7)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 9 of 152
 From : Brion Lienhart                      1:213/700.2     .îí 24 .þí 96 13:28
 To   : Christopher Lee
 Subj : INCONSISTENT SHADOWS.
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On Sat Jun 22, Christopher Lee said to Aaron Boyden:

 AB> The Long Shot was built by the puppeteers.

 -CL> The Puppeteers bought the hyperdrive II technology from
 -CL> another race.  I pretty sure it was the same race that
 -CL> originally sold the first hyperdrive version.

As I recall, the puppeteers bought the hyperdrive from the Outsiders, but came
up with the QII by themselves. It was parked in the outer solar system because a
human was the last one to operate it, before Louis Wu & Co. If anybody has a
copy of _Crashlander_ handy, it should be in there.





--- QM v1.31
 * Origin: Ministry of Peace - Carson City, NV (1:213/700.2)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 10 of 152
 From : Frank Glover                        1:2613/477      .cê 23 .þí 96 21:14
 To   : David Johnston
 Subj : Re: Stuff
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

DJ>  -> that thing in the big suit?  What are those big black spidery

DJ>  Which thing in a big suit?

   I'm guessing he means a Vorlon.

   Frank


--- QuickBBS 2.80 GoldBase (Zeta-2.0a)
 * Origin: The Matrix Data Bank BBS, Rochester, Ny (1:2613/477)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 11 of 152
 From : Frank Glover                        1:2613/477      .cê 23 .þí 96 21:20
 To   : Kay Shapero
 Subj : Re: Outer LImits
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

KS>   LR>was alright. Iwish they'd remake "Soldier" and "Demon with a
KS>   LR>glass hand".
KS>  >:[
KS>
KS>  I don't - the originals were just fine.  Be more fun to see originals
KS>  of the same caliber.

   Besides, a remake of `Soldier' with todays sfx would be invariably compared
to `The Terminator,' even though Arnie's movie got there second. (And an
agreement with Harlan Ellison had to be reached forthat film, because of its
unintended similarites with `Soldier.' Next time you see the former, look for a
credit `Acknowledging the works of Harlan Ellison.' And you can kind of tell
that it was added into the already produced credits as an afterthought from the
not quite smooth way it scrolls, compared to everything else.)

   Frank


--- QuickBBS 2.80 GoldBase (Zeta-2.0a)
 * Origin: The Matrix Data Bank BBS, Rochester, Ny (1:2613/477)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 12 of 152
 From : Frank Glover                        1:2613/477      .cê 23 .þí 96 21:27
 To   : Jeff Hancock
 Subj : Re: cancelled
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

JH>  Long storylines, you say?  Damn, I'd sure love to see 'em.  Oh, you
JH>  mean
JH>  the background plot elements that get kicked around once in a while
JH>  without never really going anywhere, or the sudden surprises that
JH>  were
JH>  foreshadowed as early as the beginning of the episode in question? ;)

   Unfortunately, Trek in general (and I say this as a Trek fan, folks) has a
tendency to do that. They often introduce elements out of which a decent story
arc could be made, then leave them hanging. (For instance, whatever happened to
those Puppet Master-like beings that were taking control of Starfleet high
command?)

   Frank


--- QuickBBS 2.80 GoldBase (Zeta-2.0a)
 * Origin: The Matrix Data Bank BBS, Rochester, Ny (1:2613/477)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 13 of 152
 From : Frank Glover                        1:2613/477      .cê 23 .þí 96 21:44
 To   : Bob Klahn
 Subj : Re: THEN AND NOW...
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

BK>   Can you see the negotiations with the heirs of Abe Lincoln? An old
BK>  photo may
BK>   be public domain, but the person?

   But Abe's been done a gazillion times by live actors, so I doubt that'll be a
problem. As a famous, real person, he *is* public domain, in a sense. But you're
right about visually accurate computer animated images of real actors. If it
gets too expensive to settle, there'd just be a tendency to not do such
productions, and go with totally fictional images, as animation does today.

   But imagine it as the ultimate type casting. If one can do computer animation
that's indistinguishable from footage of the real actors (and at any stage in
their lives), one probably also has the technology to accurately computer
synthesize their voices for the parts, too. Since fans would accept nothing but
the images of theoriginal actors in their roles (at least in things like Trek,
and Darrin of Bewitched, or Becky of Rosanne not withstanding, these days
producers tend to replace the actual character, rather than just the actor, if
the original one leaves/dies), Shatner, Nimoy, etc. could be `playing' their
characters long after they've passed away.....

   Frank


--- QuickBBS 2.80 GoldBase (Zeta-2.0a)
 * Origin: The Matrix Data Bank BBS, Rochester, Ny (1:2613/477)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 14 of 152
 From : Glenn Shaheen                       1:3600/7        .óá 22 .þí 96 15:28
 To   : Jeff Hancock
 Subj : cancelled
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

JH>There is some basis to believe that.  The creator of B5 initially
JH>pitched it to Paramount, including some of the basic story elements and
JH>the structure of the pilot, but they rejected it.  Shortly afterwards,
JH>they announced their plans for DS9.  Now whether they rejected it
JH>because they thought it was a good idea but wanted to do it THEIR way,
JH>or because they already had those plans for DS9 and weren't going to do
JH>two shows set on a space station, that debate has raged on and off for
JH>quite some time.  The fact remains that there are a lot of superficial
JH>similarities which go beyond your basic space-station theme, and
JH>similar plotlines tend to show up rather coincidentally.

        Well I don't watch b5, so I wouldn't see these so-called
"similar plotlines".


JH>One of the more recent reasons to bash Trek was when an actor who played
JH>an occasionally recurring B5 character had been signed up in advance for
JH>a certain B5 episode and Trek got him instead.  The agent claimed that
JH>the actor had been double-booked, and since Trek's role was an active
JH>two-part episode (hence more money), they got him.  This didn't
JH>seriously effect the B5 storyline though, the character was simply
JH>killed and a replacement moved into his position.  <grin>

        It's not the fans fault, it's the actor's fault.


JH>Was anyone saying that specifically?  All I've been saying is that it
JH>doesn't require as much thought.  Trek tends to preach at you, B5 tends
JH>to set up the question and leave it to the viewer to answer it for
JH>themselves without going overboard about what's right and wrong; because
JH>frequently it's just not that simple.

        I can watch an episode of Trek and decide for myself whether
it's right or wrong, I'm not brainwashed or anything.
-=-
 * OLX 2.2 * "I'm wearing my wedding ring", said Tom with abandon.

--- SLMAIL v3.5C  (#1540)
 * Origin: Robotech þ Lake City's Music*Demo BBS þ [904] 758*9477 (1:3600/7)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 15 of 152
 From : Glenn Shaheen                       1:3600/7        .óá 22 .þí 96 15:32
 To   : Jeff Hancock
 Subj : B5 renewed
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

JH>That's an interesting take.  I don't know how you got it, since that's
JH>not what's in the show.

        They're ALWAYS trying to sabotage the babylon project. And I
saw the earth thing on a commercial.

JH>This just proves you don't know what's going on.  It's not strictly
JH>serial, and it's not strictly standalone; there are a mixture of both.
JH>Frequently the stories can be standalone and still provide depth to the
JH>universe and characters as well as advancing the overall plot just a
JH>bit.

        Well that's what I gathered.


JH>But I suspect I'm wasting my time trying to convince you otherwise.

        But it isn't up to you to decide what I should and shouldn't
like or why or why not I should or shouldn't like it. You sound like
some people at my school...



ps-you're not gonna lock me off, are you?

-=-
 * OLX 2.2 * "I've dropped my toothpaste", he said crestfallen.

--- SLMAIL v3.5C  (#1540)
 * Origin: Robotech þ Lake City's Music*Demo BBS þ [904] 758*9477 (1:3600/7)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 16 of 152
 From : Jeff Hancock                        1:3600/7        .cê 23 .þí 96 18:30
 To   : Glenn Shaheen
 Subj : B5 renewed
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

GS>        They're ALWAYS trying to sabotage the babylon project. And I

Who is?  You still haven't answered that question. ;)

GS>JH>But I suspect I'm wasting my time trying to convince you otherwise.
GS>        But it isn't up to you to decide what I should and shouldn't
GS>like or why or why not I should or shouldn't like it. You sound like

No, it's not.  But if your reasons make no sense, they can still be
debated.

Besides, I'm not "deciding" for you, merely suggesting.  Weren't you
trying to "decide" for everyone else when you were wishing B5 would get
cancelled?

GS>ps-you're not gonna lock me off, are you?

No, I don't lock out people just for having a different opinion.  Now if
they get really nasty about it, then that might be different, but you
don't have anything to worry about so far.

-=-
 * Crazy-J * Modular transformation completed.  Main gun charging...

--- SLMAIL v3.5C  (#1540)
 * Origin: Robotech þ Lake City's Music*Demo BBS þ [904] 758*9477 (1:3600/7)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 17 of 152
 From : Jeff Hancock                        1:3600/7        .cê 23 .þí 96 18:48
 To   : Glenn Shaheen
 Subj : cancelled
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

GS>JH>Saturday on the dot.  It's still not as entertaining as B5.
GS>        Sez you. I find it much more entertaining.

To each their own.

GS>JH> Sadly enough, the most entertaining episodes of DS9 have often
GS>JH>been the silliest, such as Quark getting stuck in the 1940s on
GS>        I thought those episodes were crap. I prefer episodes that
GS>deal with deeper things than a cheap laugh.

So do I in general, but Trek just hasn't been satisfying me in that
regard.  They try sometimes, but ...

GS>JH>without never really going anywhere, or the sudden surprises that
GS>JH>were foreshadowed as early as the beginning of the episode in
GS>        What about the dominion? What about the Cardassian
GS>Government? What about the Klingons? There have been numerous

What about 'em?  The Dominion looked like a serious threat when they
first showed up, but then nothing much happened with them aside from
popping up every so often for a character exercise.

The Cardassians and Klingons have changed somewhat, yes, but it doesn't
seem like things have gone much of anywhere.

Gul Dukat's no G'kar, that's for sure.

GS>        The stories on DS9 go places. They develop and resolve. It
GS>just isn't one BIG story, rather several small ones that are normally
GS>wrapped up by the end of the season.

And B5 has some of that too except they may get "wrapped up" anytime, or
at least advanced.  It still doesn't seem like DS9 is "going" anywhere
much, but maybe they'll surprise me.

Or maybe the critical difference is that I just don't care as much.

GS>        I didn't like it because not enough was resolved, and I
GS>didn't know it was a pilot. I just thought it was a TV movie, because
GS>that's what the commercials said.

Well, in a sense it was.  It was supposed to kick off the series, but
turned out to be a movie to see if there was enough interest to fund the
series, which didn't actually start until a year later.  A number of
elements introduced in the pilot were explained and fleshed out later
that season, and to an extent is still ongoing.  We still don't know
*exactly* what a Vorlon looks like, or how precisely the Minbari knew
what would poison him.

GS>        I didn't like it because the newscaster was a terrible actor.
GS>I couldn't stand watching the whole thing with that newscaster.

Seemed convincing enough to me.

GS>        If I watch a show, and the only one I see I don't like, I
GS>have no reason to watch it again. I know that sounds ignorant, but
GS>why would I continue to use my time to watch a show when the only
GS>episode I have to judge it by is terrible?

To see if you were wrong the first time? ;)

It can depend on how bad it is.  If you didn't like the story, that
would be one thing, if the acting was terrible or there were other flaws
which you wouldn't expect to change anytime soon, then it would make
sense to at least forget about it for a year or so, the logic being if
it's still on by then then they must have gotten better.

GS>        I have the nitpickers guide. Pretty funny. Of course, B5
GS>probably has just as many mistakes, except you aren't looking hard
GS>enough. Why try to pick apart a show you think is great? I never

Some of the most dedicated nitpickers of Trek are fans of the show, and
the same is true for B5.  If there's a mistake or error, someone WILL
catch it.  People are just as fussy about B5 as they are about Trek or
any other SF show, believe it.  Go read the B5 area and you'll see some
examples. ;)

One particularly nice thing about B5 is that people can actually talk to
the creator over various online services, and a lot of these nits turn
out to have good explanations that not everyone understood.  Others are
genuine foul-ups.

GS>        Yes, you can do a lot more a lot cheaper, but quality is
GS>lost. With a model, when it explodes the object acts as it should,
GS>because you really blow it up. In a computer generated graphic, you

Ha!  Yes, it acts just as a PLASTIC MODEL should when it blows up, not a
thousand-ton spaceship.  <g>

GS>have to rely on the accuracy of the artist and/or computer to make
GS>the object act as it should when blown up.

Right.  And they can make it more accurate then firecrackers and plastic
is ever going to be.

GS>JH>The CGI in a good bit of the first season did look a little "fake"
GS>        But it all looks a little too much like Wing Commander III to

That's because you're used to plastic models, so you think that "that is
what it should look like".  So when you see something different, you
don't think it looks like it should.

Trek uses quite a bit of computer graphics; but they just have to try
hard to make it look like the standard models.

GS>        I'll watch them to see if I can stand them. If I can, maybe
GS>I'll continue to watch it. But if I don't like any of these 4
GS>episodes, than I am just not a babylon 5 type of person.

Fair enough.  No one says you have to be.  Ought to be maybe. <g>

-=-
 * Crazy-J * Ever notice no man in a beer commercial has a beer belly?

--- SLMAIL v3.5C  (#1540)
 * Origin: Robotech þ Lake City's Music*Demo BBS þ [904] 758*9477 (1:3600/7)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 18 of 152
 From : Todd Sullivan                       1:202/720.3     .cê 23 .þí 96 19:56
 To   : Jeff Hancock
 Subj : B5 renewed
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Reports from the Interior indicate that Jeff Hancock leaked the following to
Glenn Shaheen, re: B5 renewed

 GS>> some conspiracy and sabotage the babylon project." I'm not for all that

 JH> That's an interesting take.  I don't know how you got it, since that's
 JH> not what's in the show.

 JH> This just proves you don't know what's going on.  It's not strictly
 JH> serial, and it's not strictly standalone; there are a mixture of both.
 JH> Frequently the stories can be standalone and still provide depth to the
 JH> universe and characters as well as advancing the overall plot just a
 JH> bit.

 JH> But I suspect I'm wasting my time trying to convince you otherwise.

Forget it, Jeff.  Like many other Trekkies, his mind's made up, and nothing you
say can change it.  Jimmy Dixon would like this guy.

Todd Sullivan

... "Truth often suffers more by the heat of its defenders than from
     the arguments of its opposers." --William Penn

-*- ASTG 1.9

--- Spot 1.3a Unregistered
 * Origin: Todd's Spot in the Continuum (1:202/720.3)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 19 of 152
 From : Jeff Hancock                        1:3600/7        .cê 23 .þí 96 18:53
 To   : Glenn Shaheen
 Subj : cancelled
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.GMD: 1:396/1

GS>        Well I don't watch b5, so I wouldn't see these so-called
GS>"similar plotlines".

One good example was the strike at Quark's bar.  B5 had a first season
episode with a strike and a lot of plot similarities, although I don't
remember the rundown.  Similar style and resolution to the story, too, I
think.

Another example was the martial law declaration on Earth.  DS9 aired it
first, but it was shown on B5 that something nasty was going on back on
Earth for about a year and a half before it finally got to that point.
So the possibility is that the DS9 people saw what B5 was going to do
sooner or later and decided to do it first; not that they had any sort
of similar foreshadowing.

GS>JH>One of the more recent reasons to bash Trek was when an actor who
GS>        It's not the fans fault, it's the actor's fault.

Who was blaming the fans?

GS>JH>doesn't require as much thought.  Trek tends to preach at you, B5
GS>JH>tends to set up the question and leave it to the viewer to answer
GS>JH>it for themselves without going overboard about what's right and
GS>        I can watch an episode of Trek and decide for myself whether
GS>it's right or wrong, I'm not brainwashed or anything.

I didn't say you were, it's just that Trek tends to TELL you what they
think is right or wrong, especially whenever the Prime Directive is
involved.
-=-
 * Crazy-J * Killing man-bashing talk show hosts...on the final Oprah.

--- SLMAIL v3.5C  (#1540)
 * Origin: Robotech þ Lake City's Music*Demo BBS þ [904] 758*9477 (1:3600/7)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 20 of 152
 From : Glenn Shaheen                       1:3600/7        .óá 22 .þí 96 15:25
 To   : Jeff Hancock
 Subj : cancelled
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

JH>Hmmm.  I've yet to see anyone compare Star Trek to, say, Friends.  Or
JH>JAG.  Or 60 Minutes.

        It's happened somewhere. There are more senile Trekkers than
me.

JH>GS>JH>more going for it in terms of quality, while Trek has a hell of a
JH>GS>JH>lot more fans because it's more accessable, has been around for
JH>GS>JH>thirty-odd years, and doesn't require the viewer to think too
JH>GS>        Obviously you haven't been watching ds9 lately. At first I

JH>Actually I have seen every DS9 and Voyager (and TNG and TOS) to date.
JH>May not remember all of them, but I have seen 'em, and I catch DS9 every
JH>Saturday on the dot.  It's still not as entertaining as B5.

        Sez you. I find it much more entertaining.

JH>Heh.  I thought it was okay at first, had potential, and never really
JH>came through with it (during the first season).  It has had some good
JH>moments, but as soon as it would do something spectacular, things would
JH>go right back to average, or below.  Sadly enough, the most entertaining
JH>episodes of DS9 have often been the silliest, such as Quark getting
JH>stuck in the 1940s on Earth, or Bashir as a secret agent.

        I thought those episodes were crap. I prefer episodes that deal
with deeper things than a cheap laugh.

JH>Long storylines, you say?  Damn, I'd sure love to see 'em.  Oh, you mean
JH>the background plot elements that get kicked around once in a while
JH>without never really going anywhere, or the sudden surprises that were
JH>foreshadowed as early as the beginning of the episode in question? ;)

        What about the dominion? What about the Cardassian Government?
What about the Klingons? There have been numerous multi-parters also.


JH>I think you're the one that's not been paying attention.  B5 has some
JH>stand-alones, but it also has a lot of "arc" episodes which do advance
JH>ongoing storylines - ones that have been set in motion from the first
JH>and those which show up later.  And unlike DS9, we know that it's
JH>actually GOING someplace, that there WILL be a resolution.  The basic
JH>story backbone is planned in advance, you see, while Trek wanders hither
JH>and yon at will, taking a step here and a step there and trying to not
JH>contradict the past too badly.

        The stories on DS9 go places. They develop and resolve. It just
isn't one BIG story, rather several small ones that are normally wrapped
up by the end of the season.


JH>Odd.  Most other people, including me, thought the pilot could stand a
JH>good bit of improvement, although it did make a pretty decent starting
JH>point.

        I didn't like it because not enough was resolved, and I didn't
know it was a pilot. I just thought it was a TV movie, because that's
what the commercials said.

JH>Some of the early ones weren't so good, true, although I don't remember
JH>them very well.  The news one, however, the reason I suggested it was
JH>because it made a good introduction to the series; re-explaining some of
JH>the basics of the B5 universe so that the new viewer could start getting
JH>up to speed.  Turns out a number of other people didn't like it at
JH>first, but appreciated it more later on a review.

        I didn't like it because the newscaster was a terrible actor.
I couldn't stand watching the whole thing with that newscaster.


JH>It sounds like you've seen a total of four episodes, and the newest one
JH>was about a year old (it was a repeat when you saw it).  If you think
JH>you can judge an entire series on that, then... not much I can do for
JH>you.

        If I watch a show, and the only one I see I don't like, I have
no reason to watch it again. I know that sounds ignorant, but why would
I continue to use my time to watch a show when the only episode I have
to judge it by is terrible?



JH>That's always possible.  The thing about B5 is, you see, they put a lot
JH>of background into it; so the more you watch it the more you pick up;
JH>and the more you pick at it the more depth you get out of it.  If you
JH>pick at the average Trek episode, it's likely to completely fall apart.
JH>Hell, they even sell the "Nit-picker's Guide" full of logical mistakes
JH>and errors in Trek episodes.  B5 has some problems as well, but they're
JH>generally not as bad.

        I have the nitpickers guide. Pretty funny. Of course, B5
probably has just as many mistakes, except you aren't looking hard
enough. Why try to pick apart a show you think is great? I never tried
to do that to Star Trek until I got the book, then every time I saw it I
would have the book in hand.

JH>Ironically enough, that's backward.  With CGI, you can do a lot more a
JH>lot cheaper - you don't have to invest hundreds or thousands in a model
JH>and then blow the darned thing up; you can electronically create
JH>whatever you wish and do with it whatever you wish.  The rendering does
JH>take a little time, but computing speed is getting faster all the time;
JH>and they've got a lot more horsepower to work with than they used to
JH>(not to mention they keep the systems running around-the-clock
JH>generating those images)

        Yes, you can do a lot more a lot cheaper, but quality is lost.
With a model, when it explodes the object acts as it should, because you
really blow it up. In a computer generated graphic, you have to rely on
the accuracy of the artist and/or computer to make the object act as it
should when blown up.

JH>The CGI in a good bit of the first season did look a little "fake" at
JH>times, but they've gotten a lot better with time and practice.

        But it all looks a little too much like Wing Commander III to
me.

JH>The next four episodes starting on the 29th (locally) may convince you
JH>otherwise, if you try them.  A major character dies, there's a
JH>time-travel epic which is directly related to a first-season episode (in
JH>a Back-to-the-Future-part-2 sort of way), and other good stuff; then
JH>they start re-running the third season for a while.

        I'll watch them to see if I can stand them. If I can, maybe I'll
continue to watch it. But if I don't like any of these 4 episodes, than
I am just not a babylon 5 type of person.

-=-
 * OLX 2.2 * "I'm sure he was guilty of _something_..." - The Punisher

--- SLMAIL v3.5C  (#1540)
 * Origin: Robotech þ Lake City's Music*Demo BBS þ [904] 758*9477 (1:3600/7)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 21 of 152
 From : ROBERT LIDGREN                      1:134/10        .cê 23 .þí 96 21:42
 To   : ALL
 Subj : Independence Day
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
I am looking for information on the new film: "Independence Day."
Does anyone here know of an ftp site or a Web Site devoted to this new
movie?

Thanks kindly in advance for your help.

Please reply to me at my e-mail address:
robert.lidgren@bbs.logicnet.com
or here.
--- PCBoard 15.2
 * Origin: 32 lines 40 Gig BBS, Realtime InterNet SLIP (403)247-7900 (1:134/10)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 22 of 152
 From : Charles Daniels                     1:203/42        .òp 25 .þí 96 01:45
 To   : Jeff Hancock
 Subj : The sf channel
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

>CD>Dominon...hmm..it's also called Dominon:Tank Police.   Sci-Fi channel

>I found some descriptions of it.  Police with tanks, that sounds like
> a winning combination. ;)  At least they don't have to worry about
> wrecks in a high-speed chase.

Yeah, it's a lot better than it sounds though.  It wasn't mold breaking
or anything but it was fun..and there was a young female officer in love with a
tank.

>CD>must have HATED the show.  They would change characters voices every
>CD>so often radically - people with Alabama accents get English accents
>CD>then New England accents then all of a sudden they are from Georgia!!

> No kidding?  Huh, I wonder who that was.  I've heard some poor dubs
> before, but nothing QUITE like that.

Yeah, I think different companies in different countries got the rights to US
video release or just rights to dub the series.

>CD>> A prime example of hacking would be what DIC has done to Sailor
>CD>>Moon, if you get that in your area.  Believe it or not, the original
>CD>What do you expect when you hack a 60 minute show in 30 minutes and
>CD>then dumb it up with a morale message?

> I don't know what you expect, but that's not quite it. ;)
> It's not that bad.  The original SM episodes were 25 minutes, and I
> think the amount of time a half-hour show gets over here is what, 22,
> 23 minutes?  The only case that's that bad is the end of the first
>Japanese season (where Beryl and everyone else dies), where DIC took
>the two ending episodes and combined them into one.  The rest aren't that
>badly mangled (aside from turning Zoescite into a girl).

Than I was sadly mis-informed.  I have only seen a few episodes and as
they run at 5:30am it's hard to really concentrate on it.

> And as far as the morale message, blame Congress, they're the ones
> saying that all the shows aimed at children have to have an obvious
> "educational" content; and apparently Usagi/Serena's friendship skills
> don't qualify.  And you can thank the "Concerned Parents" of the
> nation for that.

Hell, when did all this happen anyway?  This is crazy.  I mean my whole
childhood was filled with squirrels skipping school, guns sneezing,
and cartoon bombs screaming before they exploded and none of that
freudian and drak imagery screwed me up.  Damn!  I bet all this morale
message stuff will rot out the new generations brain.  I mean who wants
cartoon cats, turtles, wrestlers, and japanese school girls to lay down
morale and ethical rules to lay out a lifetime of personal belief.

> By the way, I've got some fansubbed anime including the Sailor Moon R
> movie, if you're interested I can netmail you a list.

Sure...umm you might find it easier to write to
charles.daniels@42.gigo.com
I'll be waiting to hear from you!

--- FMail 0.98
 * Origin: Deep Thought: RedDwarf,ST,SF, FREE MEAT!  916-452-9501 (1:203/42)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 23 of 152
 From : Charles Daniels                     1:203/42        .òp 25 .þí 96 01:51
 To   : Bob Klahn
 Subj : A question
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
I have a question of extra-ordinary magnitude to ask you!  Are you familiar
with the short film "A Fist Full of Yen"?    I was just hoping that somehow
Dr. Klahn was alive and that his first name was Bob.

--- FMail 0.98
 * Origin: Deep Thought: RedDwarf,ST,SF, FREE MEAT!  916-452-9501 (1:203/42)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 24 of 152
 From : Nicolai Shapero                     1:102/524       .îí 24 .þí 96 09:38
 To   : Marco Catalano
 Subj : Space Above & Beyond
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Jun 17 23:24>, Marco Catalano (2:2802/152.3) wrote to Nicolai Shapero:

 MC>I guess you cannot tell me a little more about the plot, Nicolai?

Basically, the Chigs sue for peace.  But as a condition for peace talks, the
Chigs insist on having one of the suits from Aerotech on the Human
representative side.  And the Chig gives the reason for the war starting and the
Aerotech suit goes bonkers.  BOOM.  So much for the chig negotiator, and so much
for much of the Human side as well.  The ceasefire goes sour, and the 58th gets
to try and scoot with the surviving colonists (returned by the Chigs, but still
in transit when the situation pickles).  In the ensuing space battle, we lose
most of the 58th.  (Oh yes, McQueen was in on the Human negotiation side, so
gets pretty much chopped up by the explosion).

Cheery episode...:-)

-- Nicolai Shapero, the Mad Russian Sysop of StormGate Aerie

--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 25 of 152
 From : Nicolai Shapero                     1:102/524       .îí 24 .þí 96 09:42
 To   : Peter Jones
 Subj : b5 stuff
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Jun 22 19:55>, Peter Jones (1:2613/313@) wrote to David Johnston:

 PJ>You know the big thing in a suit!  Maybe it's a Vorlon - it's a
 PJ>big
 PJ>thing in a suit.  The suit has 1 eye in the head that irises open
 PJ>and
 PJ>shut as the thing talks.  Whenever it talks, little lights flash
 PJ>on its
 PJ>chest and its voice is like a deep sigh..

It's a Vorlon, all right.

-- Nicolai Shapero, the Mad Russian Sysop of StormGate Aerie

--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 26 of 152
 From : Nicolai Shapero                     1:102/524       .îí 24 .þí 96 09:44
 To   : Lawrence E Dunlap
 Subj : Robert A. Heinlein
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Jun 21 22:14>, Lawrence E Dunlap (1:106/2927) wrote to Todd Sullivan:

 LE>    I think Heinlein never really ever found the sharp prose
 LE>style he
 LE>enjoyed before the circulatory constriction in his brain was
 LE>properly
 LE>diagnosed and treated in 1969.
 LE>

I think that Heinlein's own success killed his writing.  Before TIME ENOUGH FOR
LOVE and I WILL FEAR NO EVIL, Heinlein wasn't enough of a "name" to be able to
safely ignore the editor assigned to his projects at any publisher.  But, I
suspect, starting with these two novels, Heinlein had enough "throw weight" to
ignore the editors.

At the point where Heinlein was freed from editorial control, IMHO, his writing
rapidly deteriorated.

-- Nicolai Shapero, the Mad Russian Sysop of StormGate Aerie


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 Msg  : 27 of 152
 From : Nicolai Shapero                     1:102/524       .îí 24 .þí 96 09:49
 To   : Christopher Lee
 Subj : INCONSISTENT SHADOWS.
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Jun 22 18:16>, Christopher Lee (1:387/31.50) wrote to Aaron Boyden:

 AB> The Long Shot was built by the puppeteers.

 CL> The Puppeteers bought the hyperdrive II technology from
 CL> another race.  I pretty sure it was the same race that
 CL> originally sold the first hyperdrive version.

Humans bought the hyperdrive from the Outsiders.  The quantum II hyperdrive came
from the Puppeteers IIRC.

-- Nicolai Shapero, the Mad Russian Sysop of StormGate Aerie

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 Msg  : 28 of 152
 From : Kay Shapero                         1:102/524       .îí 24 .þí 96 13:03
 To   : Lawrence E Dunlap
 Subj : Robert A. Heinlein
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Jun 21 22:14>, Lawrence E Dunlap (1:106/2927) wrote to Todd Sullivan:

 LE>    I think Heinlein never really ever found the sharp prose
 LE>style he enjoyed before the circulatory constriction in his brain was
 LE>properly diagnosed and treated in 1969.
 LE>

He came close a few times; Friday was weak, but recognizably the work of same
writer as Stranger In A Strange Land, and the first half of THE CAT WHO WALKS
THROUGH WALLS was very reminiscent of early Heinlein.  Which made it all the
more Vastly Annoying when the second half dropped the entire set of plot
forshadowings and clues to Strange Things going on in the background in favor of
dumping the entire cast into a sort of cocktail party until the very last
chapter in which a quick effort was made at faking up an ending.  I would really
have liked to read the rest of the book that first half belonged with; I wish
he'd written it.

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Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 29 of 152
 From : Kay Shapero                         1:102/524       .îí 24 .þí 96 13:13
 To   : Bob Klahn
 Subj : STUFF
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Jun 22 11:59>, Bob Klahn (1:234/2) wrote to Peter Jones:

 BK> Real world, probably money. Or ratings needed hyping so they
 BK>brought in

Also, from what was said at the time Michael O'Hare wanted to go do something
else, and since his character was due to fade into the relative background for
awhile anyway, JMS just turned up the gain. The choice of actor for the
replacement was probably to appease the Powers That Be by giving them a "name"
lead actor, but I gather JMS is also a Boxleitner fan. :->

At the time, a lot of us were playing "Babylmaniacs", and my own casting for
Sheridan was Runt, but the character has grown in the telling.

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Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 30 of 152
 From : Todd Sullivan                       1:202/720.3     .îí 24 .þí 96 18:23
 To   : Bob Klahn
 Subj : THEN AND NOW...
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Reports from the Interior indicate that Bob Klahn leaked the following to Mark
Jones, re: THEN AND NOW...

 MJ>> And its only going to get more amazing.  (I predict that within 10
 MJ>> years, Paramount Studios will be producing *new* episodes of the
 MJ>> original Star Trek with the ORIGINAL CAST, looking just as they did at
 MJ>> their best in the 60's.  And Paramount won't be alone.)

 BK>  Can you just see the negotiations for the rights to the characters?
 BK> It's one
 BK>  thing to claim the right to the idea of Spok, quite another to use the
 BK> image
 BK>  of Lenord Nemoy in that roll. We're probably talking millions here.

True, but the copyrights are still held by Paramount.  However, Majel
Barret-Roddenberry still has the rights to her late husband's creation.

 BK>  Can you see the negotiations with the heirs of Abe Lincoln? An old
 BK> photo may be public domain, but the person?

Same thing happened to one of the Vanderbilts.  The name got acquired into the
public domain, just like Trek.

Todd Sullivan

... "I decided to hook my brake lights up to my gas pedal..." --S. Wright

-*- ASTG 1.9

--- Spot 1.3a Unregistered
 * Origin: Todd's Spot in the Continuum (1:202/720.3)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 31 of 152
 From : Mark Jones                          1:105/302.47    .åò 20 .þí 96 20:30
 To   : Frank Glover
 Subj : LOIS AND CLARK
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On (19 Jun 96) Frank Glover wrote to Michael Harper...

 FG>    (Though in the movies, they realized they'd have to strip Supes of
 FG> his powers first. Wonder if the writers/directors read Niven? And in
 FG> recent episodes, Dean's Superman [a tacitly acknowledged virgin] came
 FG> pretty close to the act. Should be interesting to see if they'll
 FG> acknowledge the possible risks, too.)

   Maybe the writers of Superman II read "Man of Steel, Woman of
Kleenex," but I think they mostly just wanted an excuse to strip Clark
of his powers.

   The series has hardly acknowledged that Clark has reproductive
organs--they aren't about to raise the ugly issue of how long Lois
might survive their wedding night!


--- PPoint 1.78
 * Origin: Folcroft Sanitarium (hsmith@cure.com) (1:105/302.47)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 32 of 152
 From : Mark Jones                          1:105/302.47    .åò 20 .þí 96 20:34
 To   : Glenn Shaheen
 Subj : cancelled
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On (18 Jun 96) Glenn Shaheen wrote to Jeff Hancock...

 GS>         Obviously you haven't been watching ds9 lately. At first I
 GS> hated the show, the episodes all were unplausible and the actors
 GS> didn't seem to click. After the first or second season though
 GS> they started to build long storylines that would effect episode
 GS> to episode kind of like b5 supposedly does. Lately the show has
 GS> been excellent, with the exception of the odd terrible episode. I

"...king of like B5 *supposedly* does"?  Nothing uncertain about it.
Quite aside from comparison between DS9 and B5 (which prove nothing
except which show you like better), I have a few gripes about DS9.

   The best episodes are those that focus exclusively (or almost
exclusively) on the non-Federation characters; Ferengi, Klingons,
Cardassians, etc.  I don't always watch DS9, but whenever the
commercials indicate that the show will be focusing on the Ferengi or
the Cardassians or whoever, I'm there dude.  Because they all come
from inferior cultures (inferior to the Federation, anyhow--just ask
the Feds), they're allowed to have interesting (albeit flawed, of
course) cultures.  They can be interesting *characters* with strong
desires, goals, ambitions--and character flaws.
   The Federation, like all utopias, is static.  It cannot
change--because any change would a be step away from perfection.  The
Klingons, on the other hand, can have revolutions, civil war,
political intrigue and backstabbing, and a desire for power (and
return to the days of glory) that results in the occupation of
neighboring star systems and repudiation of an 80 year-old treaty with
the Federation.
   Ditto for the Cardassians and the Ferengi.  But you'll seldom see a
major change in the Federation that isn't a) imposed by outside
forces, and/or b) quickly reversed.  And you'll *never* see
misbehavior by authority figures that isn't easily isolated and
eliminated (just a few bad eggs in an otherwise pristine system...).
   Blech.
   And the Federation characters are, for the most part, every bit as
bland as the culture that spawned them.  WHich is too bad, since Avery
Brooks and Colm Meany are better that that (Colm Meany in particular).

 GS> As for effects, I've always felt a model works
 GS> much better than computer graphics on television, because with a
 GS> tv shows budget and minimal time to work models seem to do a much
 GS> better job. At the cinema it's a different story because they
 GS> have more time and more money to work with.

This makes no sense to me.  What you really seem to be saying is that
you prefer models to CGI.  Whatever.  But I think CGI is eventually
going to supplant models.  The technology is going to continue
improving--and getting cheaper all the while--so any perceived
superiority of model work is going to vanish soon.  And being able to
restage your climactic space battle by pushing a few buttons (as
opposed to laboriously rebuilding the exploded models...) is only
going to speed the transition.



--- PPoint 1.78
 * Origin: Folcroft Sanitarium (hsmith@cure.com) (1:105/302.47)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 33 of 152
 From : Mark Jones                          1:105/302.47    .cê 23 .þí 96 18:22
 To   : Aaron Boyden
 Subj : INCONSISTENT SHADOWS.
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On (22 Jun 96) Aaron Boyden wrote to Frank Glover...

 AB>  >    Agreed. As opposed to Niven's Known Space Universe
 AB>  > where technology like the hyperdrive and stasis fields
 AB>  > were obtained from other sources, but we kept working
 AB>  > on the engineering and physics involved until we
 AB>  > understood both, and could reliably reproduce, and
 AB>  > even improve (as in the Long Shot's level II
 AB>  > hyperdrive in Ringworld) on them....
 AB>
 AB> The Long Shot was built by the puppeteers.

   The point still stands, though.  Because the Puppeteers bought
the original hyperdrive from the Outsiders, too, just like we humans
did.  (The hyperdrive only works outside of a gravity well, and the
puppeteers, like Humans and Kzinti and whatnot, were not likely to
think of going that far outsystem to experiment.)


--- PPoint 1.78
 * Origin: Folcroft Sanitarium (hsmith@cure.com) (1:105/302.47)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 34 of 152
 From : Mark Jones                          1:105/302.47    .cê 23 .þí 96 18:25
 To   : Kay Shapero
 Subj : Brin's Uplift Universe
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On (21 Jun 96) Kay Shapero wrote to Mark Jones...

 KS> Also nobody's perfect, regardless of how long they've been
 KS> kicking around the universe. Just like on Earth, the library can
 KS> be expected to have the occasional error that nobody's ever
 KS> happened to spot because they never checked it out for
 KS> themselves.

Not to mention that there *is* some evidence that the Galactic Library
isn't quite as neutral and aboveboard as they'd like us to believe.
Politics (and the balance of power that access to the library can
alter) has crept into it.  The Library the humans have access to
probably isn't exactly the same library the elder races look at....

(And the Humans, of course, being the paranoid and political types
that we are, are going to assume that this is the case even if it
isn't.)


--- PPoint 1.78
 * Origin: Folcroft Sanitarium (hsmith@cure.com) (1:105/302.47)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 35 of 152
 From : Lis Carey                           1:101/230       .îí 24 .þí 96 07:00
 To   : Peter Jones
 Subj : B5 STUFF
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
PJ>You know the big thing in a suit!  Maybe it's a Vorlon - it's a big
PJ>thing in a suit.  The suit has 1 eye in the head that irises open and
PJ>shut as the thing talks.  Whenever it talks, little lights flash on its
PJ>chest and its voice is like a deep sigh..
PJ>Sorry I can't be more help.

PJ>Thanks for helping out a newbie


That's Kosh, the Vorlon Ambassador.

 * OLX 2.1 TD * Hello, I am part number ¦ºÞº¦º¦Û¦ºÝ¦ºÝ¦¦

--- FLAME v1.0
 * Origin: Withouta Net - Drop In Anytime! - 617/846-5416 (1:101/230)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 36 of 152
 From : Earl Green                          1:3822/1        .òp 25 .þí 96 18:49
 To   : All
 Subj : MST3K rescued by Sci-Fi
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
After Comedy Central officially lost interest, MST3K has been picked up
by the Sci-Fi Channel, according to Best Brains' fan liaison on AOL.
The first of 13 new episodes will air in February '97 on the SFC.  Word
has it that the show's new home network will probably dictate that Mike
and the 'Bots lampoon sci-fi flicks exclusively.  (Which is a pity; I
think some of the best MSTs lambast those awful teen angst movies!)
   So there ya go.
      e  <-- Earl Green (earl.green@f1.n3822.z1.fidonet.org)  1:3822/1
---
 * SLMR 2.0 * "Aren't you...one of those fiddygibbers?" - Heroic Hukka

--- QScan/PCB v1.19b / 01-0162
 * Origin: Jackalope Junction 501-785-5381 Ft Smith AR (1:3822/1)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 37 of 152
 From : Bob Klahn                           1:234/2         .òp 25 .þí 96 11:41
 To   : Frank Glover
 Subj : THEN AND NOW...
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 FG>
BK>>   Can you see the negotiations with the heirs of Abe Lincoln? An old
BK>>  photo may
BK>>   be public domain, but the person?
 FG>
 FG>    But Abe's been done a gazillion times by live actors, so I doubt
 FG>    that'll be a problem. As a famous, real person, he *is* public
 FG>    domain, in a sense. But you're right about visually accurate
 FG>    computer animated images of real actors. If it gets too expensive to

 I wonder, even though he is a public figure, doing an actual representation
 of the person is different than someone acknowledged to be an actor playing
 the roll. Can't you imagine a computer generated actor playing the roll of
 Abe Lincoln?

 FG>    settle, there'd just be a tendency to not do such productions, and
 FG>    go with totally fictional images, as animation does today.

 My conclusion also.

 FG>    But imagine it as the ultimate type casting. If one can do computer
 FG> animation that's indistinguishable from footage of the real actors (and
 FG> at any stage in their lives), one probably also has the technology to
 FG> accurately computer synthesize their voices for the parts, too. Since
 FG> fans would accept nothing but the images of theoriginal actors in their
 FG> roles (at least in things like Trek, and Darrin of Bewitched, or Becky
 FG> of Rosanne not withstanding, these days producers tend to replace the
 FG> actual character, rather than just the actor, if the original one
 FG> leaves/dies), Shatner, Nimoy, etc. could be `playing' their characters
 FG> long after they've passed away.....

 Do you think the computer character playing Scotty would refuse to speak to
 the computer character playing Kirk just like the real one?

 Do you think some computer programmer will decide he's just had enough of
 Shatner's speach affectations, and reprogram him to actually speak like a
 normal human being?

 Will Sulu still be captain of his own starship, or will he go back to the
 bridge of the Enterprise.

 Inquiring minds should have something better to do than worry about this.

 Can't you just see a revival of live theatre based on people getting a
 thrill out of seeing actual, live, human beings in performance?

BOB KLAHN

... Captain, logic indicates that we should run like hell.
 * Silver Xpress V4.3P RB10275

--- FLAME v1.1
 * Origin: Telnet toltbbs.com or call 313-854-6001, Boardwatch #55 (1:234/2)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 38 of 152
 From : Bob Klahn                           1:234/2         .òp 25 .þí 96 11:41
 To   : Frank Glover
 Subj : CANCELLED
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 FG>    Unfortunately, Trek in general (and I say this as a Trek fan, folks)
 FG>    has a tendency to do that. They often introduce elements out of
 FG>    which a decent story arc could be made, then leave them hanging.
 FG>    (For instance, whatever happened to those Puppet Master-like beings
 FG>    that were taking control of Starfleet high command?)

 I still think they weaseled their way out of the Borg situation.

BOB KLAHN

... Not one shred of evidence supports the notion that life is serious.
 * Silver Xpress V4.3P RB10275

--- FLAME v1.1
 * Origin: Telnet toltbbs.com or call 313-854-6001, Boardwatch #55 (1:234/2)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 39 of 152
 From : Leman Russ                          1:2250/7        .îí 24 .þí 96 04:44
 To   : Todd Sullivan
 Subj : Re: cancelled
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 FYI, I never bashed B5 until I got flamed and banned from the B5 echo for
defending trek from al lthe BABYlonains and their trek bashing.

>:[

--- DLG Pro v1.0/DLGMail
 * Origin: Sage's Tower - Amiga - (618) 259-1844 (1:2250/7)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 40 of 152
 From : Leman Russ                          1:2250/7        .îí 24 .þí 96 04:46
 To   : Jeff Hancock
 Subj : Re: cancelled
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 Not every SF show gets compared to trek! I've never compared Red Dwarf to trek,
nor did I feel starcops was comparable but it deserved a longer run and more
money.

 I didn't feel that B7 should be compared to trek, and that SuckQuest didn;t
DESEVE to be compatred to trek no matter how it rippedoff TNG.

 I didn;t compare B5 to trek, but got sick of Bolack and his buddies endlessly
going on about how it was better than trek and making trek bashingcompoarisions.

>:[

--- DLG Pro v1.0/DLGMail
 * Origin: Sage's Tower - Amiga - (618) 259-1844 (1:2250/7)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 41 of 152
 From : Leman Russ                          1:2250/7        .îí 24 .þí 96 04:48
 To   : Jeff Hancock
 Subj : Re: cancelled
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 JH> doesn't require as much thought.  Trek tends to preach at you, B5
 JH> tends
 JH> to set up the question and leave it to the viewer to answer it for
 JH> themselves without going overboard about what's right and wrong;

 OH COME ON!!!!!! B5 sets itslef as good guys/bad guys like nothing else. The
shadows are the epipitome of evil, and their ships even look likespididers just
to make thems more horrid to the human audience! They're all black (Ships and
the shadows) and are crafted to appeal to the phobias inthe human mind.

 The "good guys" namely the vorlons, look like angels, and were rippedoff
fromthe creatures in "the abyss".

 So don't say B5 sets things up for the viewer to decide, they putthings in
nice, simple. good/bad terms.

 You know what I WANT to see on B5? Well I'm gonna tellya anyway, so there! I
want to know why the shadows arethe way they are, why a race so powerful and
advanced screws around with lesser races. What drives them? Did they have a
lousey childhood? Were they abused? Are they afraid of being overtaken?

 In B5 the shadows are just the bad guys, no ex-planation, no rational. If
they're so advanced it seems thatthey'd be above getting their rocks off messing
with lesser races, so why do they do it?

 I want to hear from a shadow, to hear his side of things. A certain other SF
show made its "baduys" a lot more 3D than B5s shadows.

 My only tory about the shadows is that they, andthe other first ones like the
vorlons, are Booooooored to tears and play elaborate games with each other,
manipulating lesser races like pawns. That would fit with everything and
until.unless I see a better explanation I'mn going to assume that'swhat it is.

>:[

--- DLG Pro v1.0/DLGMail
 * Origin: Sage's Tower - Amiga - (618) 259-1844 (1:2250/7)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 42 of 152
 From : Leman Russ                          1:2250/7        .îí 24 .þí 96 05:01
 To   : All
 Subj : SAAB
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 Look, I never watched SAAB after the beginning because I think we get enough
war in space stuff, but a lot of people jere have been decrying its demise, and
I thought I'd try to cheerr them up since I have nothing against SAAB or its
fhans.

Just coz the shows canned doesn't mean thestory has to end. There will almost c
certainly be some SAAB novels. V had novels even tho it sucked completely.
Likewise BattleStar Galactica had a series of novels done for years after it got
canned.

 So cheer up, SAABies, there will be at least a coiuple novels, a fhanclub and
probably a comic series from an indy company.

 It's not like I'm telling you guyws to shut up and stop whining, don't getthat
impression at all, please. I'm just trying to cheer you up. Ifyou like the show
why not start a fhanclub, write to Fox or even the Sf channeto pick it up?

 Come on,you call yourselves SF fhans, so remember FIAWOL and start some fhannac
about SAAB.

>:[

--- DLG Pro v1.0/DLGMail
 * Origin: Sage's Tower - Amiga - (618) 259-1844 (1:2250/7)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 43 of 152
 From : Kay Shapero                         1:102/524       .òp 25 .þí 96 10:19
 To   : Bob Klahn
 Subj : BRIN'S UPLIFT UNIVERS
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Jun 23 16:27>, Bob Klahn (1:234/2) wrote to Kay Shapero:

 BK> refine the figures to a new decimal place. Instead he found the
 BK>original report had slipped a decimal place. It was reported as 10
 BK>times higher than it actually was.

Figures...  One does have to check these things.  (I've had my own suspicions
about official data you can't check directly ever since I researched that XYY
genetic flaw corollation with excess violence business back in the mid '70s and
found the whole thing was based on two studies of a total of maybe 20 people,
all of who were already incarcerated.  That thing seems to have moldered away,
but I'll bet you can still find it in a textbook somewhere.)

--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 44 of 152
 From : Kay Shapero                         1:102/524       .òp 25 .þí 96 10:22
 To   : Leman Russ
 Subj : Re: B5 tech
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Jun 22 11:37>, Leman Russ (1:2250/7) wrote to Mark Jones:

 LR> And I still say the mimbs are pretty barbaric to seriously plan
 LR>genocide over one incident, andthey WERE planning it untilthey
 LR>found out that humans were getting their souls.
>:[

I think Delenn had it about right when she said that the Minbari had all gone
mad together, and recovered from the madness just in time.

--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 45 of 152
 From : Brion Lienhart                      1:213/700.2     .pä 26 .þí 96 07:06
 To   : All
 Subj : So, How about that Hunchback?
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Has anybody seen this yet? I think it's on topic here, it's basically a complete
fantasy. From what I recall of reading the book many moons ago, Quasimodo wasn't
really your typical Disney hero, the priest was really not a nice guy, and
Esmerelda and wassname, the guy that Esmerelda has the hots for is no prince
either. Since everybody dies at the end, it's not your typical Disney happy
ending.



--- QM v1.31
 * Origin: Ministry of Peace - Carson City, NV (1:213/700.2)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 46 of 152
 From : Brion Lienhart                      1:213/700.2     .pä 26 .þí 96 07:47
 To   : Charles Daniels
 Subj : The sf channel
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On Tue Jun 25, Charles Daniels said to Jeff Hancock:

> And as far as the morale message, blame Congress, they're the ones
> saying that all the shows aimed at children have to have an obvious
> "educational" content; and apparently Usagi/Serena's friendship skills
> don't qualify.  And you can thank the "Concerned Parents" of the
> nation for that.

 -CD>Hell, when did all this happen anyway?  This is crazy.  I mean my
 -CD>whole childhood was filled with squirrels skipping school, guns
 -CD>sneezing,
 -CD>and cartoon bombs screaming before they exploded and none of that

Congress didn't require any such thing. The FCC requires stations to broadcast a
certain amount of educational content during the hours when children supposedly
watch TV. The producers and stations came up with the idea that if they stuck in
some sort of moral message and educational content they could claim that G.I.
Joe was educational and met that requirement. For some unknown reason the FCC
bought into it.
"In this episode, we learn the COBRA is bad, and G.I. Joe is good."



--- QM v1.31
 * Origin: Ministry of Peace - Carson City, NV (1:213/700.2)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 47 of 152
 From : Peter McNeill                       1:244/116       .òp 25 .þí 96 18:42
 To   : Glenn Shaheen
 Subj : cancelled
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10452
Hello Glenn!

Saturday June 22 1996 15:25, Glenn Shaheen wrote to Jeff Hancock:

 JH>> It sounds like you've seen a total of four episodes, and the newest
 JH>> one was about a year old (it was a repeat when you saw it).  If you
 JH>> think you can judge an entire series on that, then... not much I
 JH>> can do for you.
 GS>         If I watch a show, and the only one I see I don't like, I have
 GS> no reason to watch it again. I know that sounds ignorant, but why
 GS> would I continue to use my time to watch a show when the only episode
 GS> I have to judge it by is terrible?

Which is why the original Star Trek almost never made it past the first
season.... most that watched it at the time thought it was bad with very poor
acting. In fact it was only after it was cancelled and caught such a huge cult
following that you are seeing ST:TNG and DS9 today. Before you bash, I watched
the original when it first came out and loved it...


... "Bother" said Pooh, and hid Piglet's corpse.
--- GoldED 2.50+
 * Origin: If you want my address, it's #1 at the end of the bar. (1:244/116)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 48 of 152
 From : Gary Pendlebury                     2:256/136.3     .åò 20 .þí 96 07:53
 To   : Frank Swarbrick
 Subj : Re: Red Dwarf
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE 1.11+

 -=> Quoting Frank Swarbrick to All <=-

 FS> Could someone post the words to the Red Dwarf theme song?

Erm, ok. Here goes:

"It's cold outside,
There's no kind of atmosphere.
I'm all alone,
More or less.

Let me fly,
Far away from here.
Fun, fun, fun;
In the sun, sun, sun.

I want to lie,
Ship wrecked and comertosed.
Drinking fresh,
Mango juice.

Coldfish shoals,
Nibbling at my toes.
Fun, fun, fun;
In the sun, sun, sun.

Fun, fun, fun;
In the sun, sun, sun."

There, I think that's about right.

Seeya

Gary

... "Smmeeeeeeggggggg heeeeaaaaaadddddd" - Kryten
--- GEcho 1.11+
 * Origin: StarBase Sixty-Seven 11pm-6am +44 (0)1325 368679 (2:256/136.3)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 49 of 152
 From : Eric Fishbein                       1:322/360       .pä 26 .þí 96 00:39
 To   : Leman Russ
 Subj : RE: B5 RENEWED
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 > you ever think that maybe the montana freemen watched B5 too much?
 > >:[

   If anything the freemen watched Charles Van Impe and The 700 Club, they're
more astounding than most sci-fi anyways...

--- FLAME v1.0/b
 * Origin: Add TSX-BBS, The Swiss Army Knife For TBBS! 508.429.8385 (1:322/360)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 50 of 152
 From : John Dechancie                      1:129/26        .òp 25 .þí 96 18:23
 To   : Frank Glover
 Subj : Re: Outer Limits
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On 23 Jun 96 09:20pm, Frank Glover wrote to Kay Shapero:

 FG> look for a credit `Acknowledging the works of Harlan
 FG> Ellison.' And you can kind of tell that it was added into
 FG> the already produced credits as an afterthought from the


The credit was the outcome of a settlement between the producers and
Ellison.  I don't know whether it came to a lawsuit or Ellison brought his
grievance to the attention of the Writers' Guild.  Either way, Ellison won.

... That which does not kill me is a big fat chicken, nyahhhhhh...
 * Silver Xpress V4.3 SW11474

--- Maximus 3.01
 * Origin: SoundingBoard, Pittsburgh PA (1:129/26)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 51 of 152
 From : Glenn Shaheen                       1:3600/7        .îí 24 .þí 96 21:37
 To   : Jeff Hancock
 Subj : B5 renewed
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

JH>Who is?  You still haven't answered that question. ;)

        You know, those people who do that.


JH>No, it's not.  But if your reasons make no sense, they can still be
JH>debated.

        They make some sense. Even if I did start liking the show alot
after a while I wouldn't tell you, cuz you'd say "I told you so".

JH>Besides, I'm not "deciding" for you, merely suggesting.  Weren't you
JH>trying to "decide" for everyone else when you were wishing B5 would get
JH>cancelled?

        No, I was just wishing it would get cancelled.

JH>No, I don't lock out people just for having a different opinion.  Now if
JH>they get really nasty about it, then that might be different, but you
JH>don't have anything to worry about so far.

        I've had people lock me off for reasons far more stupid. Like
JFGL.
-=-
 * OLX 2.2 * In my small college, the debate team was a schizophrenic.

--- SLMAIL v3.5C  (#1540)
 * Origin: Robotech þ Lake City's Music*Demo BBS þ [904] 758*9477 (1:3600/7)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 52 of 152
 From : Glenn Shaheen                       1:3600/7        .îí 24 .þí 96 21:49
 To   : Jeff Hancock
 Subj : cancelled
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

JH>So do I in general, but Trek just hasn't been satisfying me in that
JH>regard.  They try sometimes, but ...

        Well, I like X-Files more than either right now anyway.

JH>What about 'em?  The Dominion looked like a serious threat when they
JH>first showed up, but then nothing much happened with them aside from
JH>popping up every so often for a character exercise.

        But they're the basic subject of every episode. That I've seen
lately. Which is one.

JH>The Cardassians and Klingons have changed somewhat, yes, but it doesn't
JH>seem like things have gone much of anywhere.

        Cardassians haven't done much lately but the Klingons are a
different story. I think the best space battle I've ever seen on TV was
where the 50 or so Klingon ships attacked DS9. Pretty cool.


JH>Gul Dukat's no G'kar, that's for sure.

        I don't know who G'kar is.


JH>And B5 has some of that too except they may get "wrapped up" anytime, or
JH>at least advanced.  It still doesn't seem like DS9 is "going" anywhere
JH>much, but maybe they'll surprise me.

        Well, the King Arthur one had a separate storyline  while still
accomplishing something big, I guess.

JH>Or maybe the critical difference is that I just don't care as much.

        Could be.

JH>Well, in a sense it was.  It was supposed to kick off the series, but
JH>turned out to be a movie to see if there was enough interest to fund the
JH>series, which didn't actually start until a year later.  A number of
JH>elements introduced in the pilot were explained and fleshed out later
JH>that season, and to an extent is still ongoing.  We still don't know
JH>*exactly* what a Vorlon looks like, or how precisely the Minbari knew
JH>what would poison him.

        Well, why did that girl Minbari know the Captain?

JH>Seemed convincing enough to me.

        Well, I only watched 15 minutes of it.


JH>To see if you were wrong the first time? ;)

        Yeah, and then the first 2 times, and then the first 3 times,
etc etc.

JH>It can depend on how bad it is.  If you didn't like the story, that
JH>would be one thing, if the acting was terrible or there were other flaws
JH>which you wouldn't expect to change anytime soon, then it would make
JH>sense to at least forget about it for a year or so, the logic being if
JH>it's still on by then then they must have gotten better.

        You said it was a "really good episode", so if that was a really
good episode then I wouldn't want to see an average episode.

JH>One particularly nice thing about B5 is that people can actually talk to
JH>the creator over various online services, and a lot of these nits turn
JH>out to have good explanations that not everyone understood.  Others are
JH>genuine foul-ups.

        Yeah, well you can't talk to the creator of Trek through those
things.


JH>Ha!  Yes, it acts just as a PLASTIC MODEL should when it blows up, not a
JH>thousand-ton spaceship.  <g>

        Still, there don't seem to be enough pieces with CGI.

JH>Right.  And they can make it more accurate then firecrackers and plastic
JH>is ever going to be.

        But they just guess how it would act, while the pyrotechnicians
have a model built to scale to destroy which would look a little more
real.

JH>That's because you're used to plastic models, so you think that "that is
JH>what it should look like".  So when you see something different, you
JH>don't think it looks like it should.

        But they don't LOOK plastic, whereas computer graphics look
computer graphicky.

JH>Trek uses quite a bit of computer graphics; but they just have to try
JH>hard to make it look like the standard models.

        Yeah, I've seen that lately. I didn't really like it at first,
but I got used to it. I just think the Special effects would be better
on b5 if they mixed like Trek.

-=-
 * OLX 2.2 * My neighbor has a circular driveway. He can't leave home.

--- SLMAIL v3.5C  (#1540)
 * Origin: Robotech þ Lake City's Music*Demo BBS þ [904] 758*9477 (1:3600/7)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 53 of 152
 From : Glenn Shaheen                       1:3600/7        .îí 24 .þí 96 21:52
 To   : Jeff Hancock
 Subj : cancelled
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

JH>One good example was the strike at Quark's bar.  B5 had a first season
JH>episode with a strike and a lot of plot similarities, although I don't
JH>remember the rundown.  Similar style and resolution to the story, too, I
JH>think.

        I don't remember that strike.

JH>Another example was the martial law declaration on Earth.  DS9 aired it
JH>first, but it was shown on B5 that something nasty was going on back on
JH>Earth for about a year and a half before it finally got to that point.
JH>So the possibility is that the DS9 people saw what B5 was going to do
JH>sooner or later and decided to do it first; not that they had any sort
JH>of similar foreshadowing.

        Or the b5 people could've been thinking of something nasty to do
back on Earth and couldn't think of something specific until DS9 aired
that episode. You never know.

JH>I didn't say you were, it's just that Trek tends to TELL you what they
JH>think is right or wrong, especially whenever the Prime Directive is
JH>involved.

        Well, they have to show what the Characters think. What would
it be like if Captain Sisko turned to the screen and said "I don't know
what we should do. Why don't we let our viewer at home decide?"

-=-
 * OLX 2.2 * Not bald, just got a crew cut & the crew abandoned ship!

--- SLMAIL v3.5C  (#1540)
 * Origin: Robotech þ Lake City's Music*Demo BBS þ [904] 758*9477 (1:3600/7)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 54 of 152
 From : Glenn Shaheen                       1:3600/7        .îí 24 .þí 96 21:53
 To   : Todd Sullivan
 Subj : cancelled
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

TS>What goes around comes around, Jim.  It's Trek's turn, is all. You don't
TS>like it, you shouldn't do it.

        Nobody was defending DS9, so I had to.
-=-
 * OLX 2.2 * Airplane: Lots of parts flying in close formation.

--- SLMAIL v3.5C  (#1540)
 * Origin: Robotech þ Lake City's Music*Demo BBS þ [904] 758*9477 (1:3600/7)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 55 of 152
 From : Jeff Hancock                        1:3600/7        .òp 25 .þí 96 19:54
 To   : Glenn Shaheen
 Subj : B5 renewed
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

GS>JH>Who is?  You still haven't answered that question. ;)
GS>        You know, those people who do that.

No, I have no idea of what you're talking about.

"People who want to sabotage the Babylon Project"

Well, to start at the beginning, there were radical pro-Earth groups who
sabotaged the first three Babylon stations while they were under
construction, not that that was specifically shown as such.

Certain elements of the Minbari Warrior Caste apparently wanted to start
a war between Earth and the Vorlons in the pilot, with some assistance
from the Narns to help defer suspicion.

During the first season, I don't remember specifically, but there were
various aliens and humans who would just as rather see the station, or
the purpose of the station to promote peace between all alien races,
destroyed or otherwise ended.

During the second season, the Shadows were working with the Centauri to
promote war, although they didn't assault B5 directly they did destroy
most of the peace effort with the resulting conflict.

And currently, during the third season, an individual, an alien probe
from an unknown race, and the Earth Force itself have all taken or
threatened to take direct action against B5.  The Shadows almost had a
reason to, and may yet, as well.

In most cases, none of these are all that connected.  There is no "those
people", supposedly with a single goal in mind.  Even the Shadows could
probably attack and destroy B5 now, but it apparently still serves a
purpose of sorts that they can exploit.

GS>JH>No, I don't lock out people just for having a different opinion.
GS>        I've had people lock me off for reasons far more stupid. Like

Different sysops, different rules.  Some people are stupid, petty little
dictators if you give them a smidgen of power, others aren't.  Most are
in that grey area in between.
-=-
 * Crazy-J * I believe in Free Speech, but I'd rather be paid for it.

--- SLMAIL v3.5C  (#1540)
 * Origin: Robotech þ Lake City's Music*Demo BBS þ [904] 758*9477 (1:3600/7)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 56 of 152
 From : Jeff Hancock                        1:3600/7        .òp 25 .þí 96 20:10
 To   : Glenn Shaheen
 Subj : cancelled
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

GS>JH>What about 'em?  The Dominion looked like a serious threat when they
GS>        But they're the basic subject of every episode. That I've
GS>seen lately. Which is one.

I thought you were some big DS9 fan?

GS>different story. I think the best space battle I've ever seen on TV
GS>was where the 50 or so Klingon ships attacked DS9. Pretty cool.

I think B5 had a more involved one, but this is to some degree a matter
of taste.  It didn't really seem to change much... have we seen a lot of
Klingons hanging out in DS9 before?  So the Federation has another race
as their enemy that wasn't much of a friend in the first place.

B5 turned its back and seceded on a corrupt Earth Alliance.  I'd call
that a significant change.

GS>JH>Gul Dukat's no G'kar, that's for sure.
GS>        I don't know who G'kar is.

In some ways they are similar characters, they even look vaguely
similar.  At first they were enemies, and then they became more
sympathetic; except G'kar has evolved over all three seasons and Gul
Dukat only took one major turn that I remember, when his government fell
apart.

GS>        Well, the King Arthur one had a separate storyline  while
GS>still accomplishing something big, I guess.

You watched it?  I thought you wouldn't like that one which is why I
said so.  I'd say yes and no...  it wasn't all that critical as such,
but it was setting things up for later and if it hadn't happened, there
could have been trouble.  The Minbari couldn't hang around to protect B5
forever, and then we would have had another attack by Earth forces.

May still yet anyway, if the Nonaligned World's rotating forces get
pulled off in fighting Shadow attacks.

GS>JH>Well, in a sense it was.  It was supposed to kick off the series,
GS>        Well, why did that girl Minbari know the Captain?

I don't know exactly what you mean.  You mean in the pilot?  She had
saved, captured, and interrogated him during the Battle of the Line; and
what she found out caused the Minbari to surrender just as they were on
the edge of completely wiping out the entire human race.  Of course, we
didn't really find all this out for an entire season, although there
were hints.

If you mean in the most recent episode...  Sheridan and Delenn have been
growing closer for some time now.  He appeared somewhat smitten with her
on first sight, but they became friends and now apparently are on the
way to becoming much more.

GS>JH>Seemed convincing enough to me.
GS>        Well, I only watched 15 minutes of it.

Oh, yeah, YOU were the one.  I was going to make some crack about that,
but then I thought maybe you were the one who sat through it all.  Heh,
yeah, like Weird Science was so much better that you couldn't stay to
see how it all turned out.  Nice flashy space battle too.

GS>        You said it was a "really good episode", so if that was a
GS>really good episode then I wouldn't want to see an average episode.

*I* thought it was.

GS>JH>Ha!  Yes, it acts just as a PLASTIC MODEL should when it blows up,
GS>        Still, there don't seem to be enough pieces with CGI.

Sometimes you're right, it doesn't seem that way.  On the other hand...
You missed the episode where Shadow ships sliced some Narn cruisers
right in half.  Both pieces just fell away, kind of like that old parody
where someone splits a hair on the edge of their sword lengthwise.

Let's see them do *that* with their models.

GS>JH>Right.  And they can make it more accurate then firecrackers and
GS>        But they just guess how it would act, while the
GS>pyrotechnicians have a model built to scale to destroy which would
GS>look a little more real.

*sigh* ... The physics involved between a plastic model in one gravity
and a huge warship in zero gravity are vastly different.  At least with
CGI, they can run calculations showing how it should look, and simulate
that.

GS>        But they don't LOOK plastic, whereas computer graphics look
GS>computer graphicky.

Some of the first season ones did, but pretty much everything else has
been just fine.  I think you're just hung up on the difference.  Plastic
models look like models, except your brain is used to that representing
the real thing.  B5 isn't all accurate either (it'd be a LOT darker in
most cases if they didn't light them up more), but it's better, and they
have a wider variety of ships since they don't have to keep building and
blowing up new models.

GS>but I got used to it. I just think the Special effects would be
GS>better on b5 if they mixed like Trek.

Thing is, then they wouldn't be able to afford to do as much as they do
and there would be less variety.  Some of the ships are based on or use
organic technology, and would be impossible to simulate with a model.

-=-
 * Crazy-J * if a = b and b = c, then we've got a messed up alphabet

--- SLMAIL v3.5C  (#1540)
 * Origin: Robotech þ Lake City's Music*Demo BBS þ [904] 758*9477 (1:3600/7)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 57 of 152
 From : Jeff Hancock                        1:3600/7        .òp 25 .þí 96 20:13
 To   : Glenn Shaheen
 Subj : cancelled
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

GS>JH>One good example was the strike at Quark's bar.  B5 had a first
GS>        I don't remember that strike.

B5 or DS9?  B5's was way back first season, DS9's wasn't too long ago.

GS>        Or the b5 people could've been thinking of something nasty to
GS>do back on Earth and couldn't think of something specific until DS9
GS>aired that episode. You never know.

It was planned WELL in advance, and the actor was scheduled well in
advance.  The Earth plotline has been set up since the beginning, first
with hints and later with more blatant clues.  It just recently came to
a head, and it was PLANNED to do so.

GS>JH>I didn't say you were, it's just that Trek tends to TELL you what
GS>JH>they think is right or wrong, especially whenever the Prime
GS>        Well, they have to show what the Characters think. What would
GS>it be like if Captain Sisko turned to the screen and said "I don't
GS>know what we should do. Why don't we let our viewer at home decide?"

It would be very corny, but that's not what I'm getting at.

-=-
 * Crazy-J * Hail to the Sun God!  He sure is a fun god!  RA! RA! RA!

--- SLMAIL v3.5C  (#1540)
 * Origin: Robotech þ Lake City's Music*Demo BBS þ [904] 758*9477 (1:3600/7)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 58 of 152
 From : Kay Shapero                         1:102/524       .pä 26 .þí 96 13:59
 To   : Jeff Hancock
 Subj : Sabotaging Babylon
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Jun 23 18:30>, Jeff Hancock (1:3600/7) wrote to Glenn Shaheen:

GS>        They're ALWAYS trying to sabotage the babylon project. And I

 JH>Who is?  You still haven't answered that question. ;)

The Shadows, of course.  Y'see, all this with the Centauri Empire explansion,
the devastation of the Narn homeworld, the wars between Unaligned Worlds, the
infiltration of the Earth Alliance, whatever's going on on Z'ha'dum and the
direct attacks by the Shadows on other civilizations; all of this is just a
smoke screen.  Their REAL intent is to sabotage the Babylon project!

And then there's Psi Corps!  Isn't it suspicious that Bester would pay so much
attention to Babylon 5, even coming out there himself on several occasions?
Obviously it's to spy out the station so they can sabotoge the Babylon project!

On yeah, and that's why the Vorlons are so secretive.  They're afraid someone
will find out before they're ready to sabotage the Babylon probject!

And then there's Kosh's death.  He wasn't fighting those Shadows after all - he
was trying to help them sabotage the Babylon project!

So are those sneaky Rangers btw - better keep an eye on THEM.  And just watch
Marcus in action.  Is there any other explanation for his generally loose-cannon
behaviour?

Yep, they're all just doing their level best to sabotage the Babylon project.
Abso-fraggin-lutely!

--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 59 of 152
 From : Kay Shapero                         1:102/524       .pä 26 .þí 96 13:57
 To   : Frank Glover
 Subj : Re: cancelled
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Jun 23 21:27>, Frank Glover (1:2613/477) wrote to Jeff Hancock:

 FG>hanging. (For instance, whatever happened to those Puppet
 FG>Master-like beings that were taking control of Starfleet high
 FG>command?)
 FG>

I think they moved out of Star Trek space and fetched up on Centauri Prime just
in time for the second part of War Without End... :->

--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 60 of 152
 From : Don Dellmann                        1:154/40        .pä 26 .þí 96 21:16
 To   : Bob Klahn
 Subj : THEN AND NOW...
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
While tripping merrily through the mail, Bob Klahn was overheard

 BK> Inquiring minds should have something better to do than worry about
 BK> this.
 BK> Can't you just see a revival of live theatre based on people getting
 BK> a thrill out of seeing actual, live, human beings in performance?

See if you can find a copy of "The Darfsteller" by Walter M. Miller
(won a Hugo as best novelette of 1955, should be in lots of anthologies,
I know it's in Doctor A's "The Hugo Winners").

Addresses just this situation.

Don

... I say, put Schroedinger in the box & see how HE likes it.
---
 * Origin: Anonymous BBS -=- Non plus Ultra -=- 414-251-2580 (1:154/40)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 61 of 152
 From : Todd Sullivan                       1:202/720.3     .òp 25 .þí 96 18:55
 To   : Leman Russ
 Subj : INCONSISTENT SHADOWS.
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Reports from the Interior indicate that Leman Russ leaked the following to Frank
Glover, re: INCONSISTENT SHADOWS.

 LR>  In B5 the hyperdrive was acquired thru the centauri...
 >> :[

Not exactly.  Jumpgate technology was.  It was stated back in Season one.

There was no mention of jump engines, but it's assumed that everyone develops
their own after working it out on their own.

Todd Sullivan

... "Time & Tide Melts the Snowman." --The 7th Doctor.

-*- ASTG 1.9

--- Spot 1.3a Unregistered
 * Origin: Todd's Spot in the Continuum (1:202/720.3)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 62 of 152
 From : Todd Sullivan                       1:202/720.3     .òp 25 .þí 96 18:58
 To   : Leman Russ
 Subj : B5 BS
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Reports from the Interior indicate that Leman Russ leaked the following to Mark
Jones, re: B5 tech

 LR>  The mimbarri were supposed to be the most advanced race going, except
 LR> for the first ones, and it was their responsibility to rrealize how
 LR> "less developed" races might react to the sight of s giant ship
 LR> charging atthem with itsweapons ready to use.

Wrong.  It's nobody's "responsibility" to realize anything, expecially when they
know absolutely nothing about them.

Does the phrase "first contact" mean anything?

 LR>  And I still say the mimbs are pretty barbaric to seriously plan
 LR> genocide over one incident, andthey WERE planning it untilthey found
 LR> out that humans were getting their souls.

They did *not* plan genocide.  They all went "crazy" at once.  Don't you pay
attention to what's being said?  It was pointed out in "Ceremonies of Light and
Dark".

Todd Sullivan

... Meanwhile, at the Chinese laundromat....

-*- ASTG 1.9

--- Spot 1.3a Unregistered
 * Origin: Todd's Spot in the Continuum (1:202/720.3)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 63 of 152
 From : Todd Sullivan                       1:202/720.3     .òp 25 .þí 96 19:16
 To   : Frank Glover
 Subj : Outer LImits
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Reports from the Interior indicate that Frank Glover leaked the following to Kay
Shapero, re: Outer LImits

 FG>
 KS>>   LR>was alright. Iwish they'd remake "Soldier" and "Demon with a
 KS>>   LR>glass hand".
 KS>>  >:[
 KS>>
 KS>>  I don't - the originals were just fine.  Be more fun to see originals
 KS>>  of the same caliber.
 FG>
 FG>    Besides, a remake of `Soldier' with todays sfx would be invariably
 FG> compared to `The Terminator,' even though Arnie's movie got there
 FG> second. (And an agreement with Harlan Ellison had to be reached forthat
 FG> film, because of its unintended similarites with `Soldier.' Next time
 FG> you see the former, look for a credit `Acknowledging the works of
 FG> Harlan Ellison.' And you can kind of tell that it was added into the
 FG> already produced credits as an afterthought from the not quite smooth
 FG> way it scrolls, compared to everything else.)

You might find it interesting to learn that a possible episode title for B5 will
be "Demon on the Run", a sequel to the OL episode.  Don't know if it will be
what you might expect, considering nothing on B5 has been what anyone expected.

Todd Sullivan

... "Me Toch-a-way, me good Indian."
    "The only good Indians I ever saw were dead."
     --Gen Philip Sheridan, as reported by Edward Ellis

-*- ASTG 1.9

--- Spot 1.3a Unregistered
 * Origin: Todd's Spot in the Continuum (1:202/720.3)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 64 of 152
 From : Todd Sullivan                       1:202/720.3     .òp 25 .þí 96 19:17
 To   : Frank Glover
 Subj : cancelled
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Reports from the Interior indicate that Frank Glover leaked the following to
Jeff Hancock, re: cancelled

 FG>
 JH>>  Long storylines, you say?  Damn, I'd sure love to see 'em.  Oh, you
 JH>>  mean
 JH>>  the background plot elements that get kicked around once in a while
 JH>>  without never really going anywhere, or the sudden surprises that
 JH>>  were
 JH>>  foreshadowed as early as the beginning of the episode in question? ;)
 FG>
 FG>    Unfortunately, Trek in general (and I say this as a Trek fan, folks)
 FG> has a tendency to do that. They often introduce elements out of which a
 FG> decent story arc could be made, then leave them hanging. (For instance,
 FG> whatever happened to those Puppet Master-like beings that were taking
 FG> control of Starfleet high command?)

They were wiped out at the end of the episode (of course), which was named
"Conspiracy".

Todd Sullivan

... Bored?  #372.  Recopy the Bible substituting your name for God.

-*- ASTG 1.9

--- Spot 1.3a Unregistered
 * Origin: Todd's Spot in the Continuum (1:202/720.3)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 65 of 152
 From : Bob Klahn                           1:234/2         .pä 26 .þí 96 12:17
 To   : Kay Shapero
 Subj : STUFF
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 KS> On <Jun 22 11:59>, Bob Klahn (1:234/2) wrote to Peter Jones:

 BK>> Real world, probably money. Or ratings needed hyping so they
 BK>>brought in

 KS> That Be by giving them a "name" lead actor, but I gather JMS is also a
 KS> Boxleitner fan. :->

 Sounds reasonable.

 KS> At the time, a lot of us were playing "Babylmaniacs", and my own
 KS> casting for Sheridan was Runt, but the character has grown in the
 KS> telling.

 I had my doubts, but I've gotten to like the character.

BOB KLAHN

... Cats know how we feel. They don't give a damn, but they know.
 * Silver Xpress V4.3P RB10275

--- FLAME v1.1
 * Origin: Telnet toltbbs.com or call 313-854-6001, Boardwatch #55 (1:234/2)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 66 of 152
 From : Bob Klahn                           1:234/2         .pä 26 .þí 96 12:17
 To   : Charles Daniels
 Subj : A QUESTION
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 CD> I have a question of extra-ordinary magnitude to ask you!  Are you
 CD> familiar with the short film "A Fist Full of Yen"?    I was just hoping
 CD> that somehow Dr. Klahn was alive and that his first name was Bob.

 We almost had a Dr. Klahn, but my daughter got married and quit after he
 Master's work. I was so looking forward to it. Though it would be the rare
 student who would understand the meaning of, "The Evil Dr. Klahn."

 And yes, I have it on tape.

 But, don't forget, the "Evil Dr. Klahn" was just a dream. Well, so far.
 Besides, I'd just fill my island with beautiful women, and skip all that
 world conquest nonsense.

BOB KLAHN

... Been there, done that, tripped the alarm.
 * Silver Xpress V4.3P RB10275

--- FLAME v1.1
 * Origin: Telnet toltbbs.com or call 313-854-6001, Boardwatch #55 (1:234/2)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 67 of 152
 From : Bob Klahn                           1:234/2         .pä 26 .þí 96 22:22
 To   : Jeff Hancock
 Subj : CANCELLED
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 JH> I didn't say you were, it's just that Trek tends to TELL you what they
 JH> think is right or wrong, especially whenever the Prime Directive is
 JH> involved.

 As long as you mentioned the Prime Directive....

 I think their use of the prime directive is one of the stupidest things they
 could come up with.

 In one episode an entire planet was about to be destroyed, an entire
 sentient species wiped out, and the Enterprise was prepared to stand by and
 do nothing. Starfleet is not allowed to interfere with the development of
 any race, even when that development is about to come to a screeching, and
 permanent, halt.

 But of course, as Pickard said, that may be their destiny. Screw destiny, do
 something.

BOB KLAHN

... It's always darkest just before things go totally black.
 * Silver Xpress V4.3P RB10275

--- FLAME v1.1
 * Origin: Telnet toltbbs.com or call 313-854-6001, Boardwatch #55 (1:234/2)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 68 of 152
 From : Ken Mayes                           1:393/7         .pä 26 .þí 96 18:06
 To   : Brion Lienhart
 Subj : Re: So, How about that Hunchback?
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
        Yeah, from what I've seen (without actually seeing the movie and I don't
think I will go to see the movie) it appears that they butchered the original
story.


        Without giving anything away, I will say that I picked up and read the
last few pages of the children's adaptation of the screenplay just to see if the
really important tragic ending was preserved. I doubted that it would be and I
was not surprised. What can you expect from Disney after all?

        If they ever did Hamlet, they'd probably have the Prince of Denmark and
his girlfriend getting married at the end with his father who was magically
restored to life after the defeat of the evil villian king officiating the
ceremony. ":).



--- CNet/3
 * Origin: The Bard's Tavern Denton, TX (817)243-5110 USR 28.8   (1:393/7)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 69 of 152
 From : Don Bach                            1:3632/65       .pä 26 .þí 96 17:10
 To   : Bob Klahn
 Subj : THEN AND NOW...
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 BK>  Can you see the negotiations with the heirs of Abe
 BK> Lincoln? An old photo may
 BK>  be public domain, but the person?

An android Abe performs several times each day in the Hall of Presidents at
Disney World.  I haven't heard of any discussions between Disney and the Lincoln
family. OR with the families of the other presidents.

The Disney World robots were quite advanced when they were first made over 20
years ago.  Disney probably has quite a detailed book on robot reliability and
maintenance.

Don


--- Maximus 3.01
 * Origin: No Regrets, Clinton, MS (601)924-8247 9P-5A (1:3632/65)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 70 of 152
 From : Harry Harker Jr                     1:237/503       .pä 26 .þí 96 20:15
 To   : ROBERT LIDGREN
 Subj : INDEPENDENCE DAY
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On (13 May 96) ROBERT LIDGREN wrote to ALL...

 RL> Has anyone found a source of information about the summer movie
 RL> "Independence Day?"  I have read a little bit here and there and know
 RL> that the plot involves an alien invasion of the United States but
 RL> beyond that I have heard very little.

 RL> Any further information would be appreciated!

On the Internet goto:   http://www.id4.com.

real net site but it's best used with netscape and a few addons that they list
when you get there. It is worth visiting though even if you don't have the
above.

Harry


... Thesaurus: ancient reptile with an excellent vocabulary

--- PPoint 2.00
 * Origin:  (1:237/503)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 71 of 152
 From : Wiebke Pommert                      2:2468/9927.2   .cê 23 .þí 96 21:45
 To   : all
 Subj : Starman
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: FastEcho 1.41/g 3519
Hallo all!

I'm from Germany.
6 years ago,I saw the Movie and TV Series Starman.
And now after all the years its always still my Favourite Show

I serch Material from the Movie & The Show in differend Lenguage
from English to all the lenguage around the World
I hope you can help me.I know my English is not the best :-)but I'm learning
:-)))


Please answer me
Thank you

Best wishes with many blue lights
Wiebke

--- GoldED 2.50 UNREG
 * Origin: Jenny's Cabin * Koethen * Germany (2:2468/9927.2)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 72 of 152
 From : Todd Sullivan                       1:202/720.3     .pä 26 .þí 96 18:07
 To   : Earl Green
 Subj : MST3K rescued by Sci-Fi
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Reports from the Interior indicate that Earl Green leaked the following to All,
re: MST3K rescued by Sci-Fi

 EG> After Comedy Central officially lost interest, MST3K has been picked up
 EG> by the Sci-Fi Channel, according to Best Brains' fan liaison on AOL.
 EG> The first of 13 new episodes will air in February '97 on the SFC.  Word
 EG> has it that the show's new home network will probably dictate that Mike
 EG> and the 'Bots lampoon sci-fi flicks exclusively.  (Which is a pity; I
 EG> think some of the best MSTs lambast those awful teen angst movies!)

The worst offenders of which are "science" fiction.

Or have you missed such clunkers as "Robot Monster" and "The Horror of Party
Beach"?

<shudder>

Todd Sullivan

... Gross Ignorance:  144 Fundies.

-*- ASTG 1.9

--- Spot 1.3a Unregistered
 * Origin: Todd's Spot in the Continuum (1:202/720.3)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 73 of 152
 From : Brandon Wolgast                     1:363/281       .pä 26 .þí 96 13:41
 To   : Robert Lidgren
 Subj : Independence Day
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE/32 1.2

RL>I am looking for information on the new film: "Independence Day."
RL>Does anyone here know of an ftp site or a Web Site devoted to this new
RL>movie?

RL>Thanks kindly in advance for your help.

http://www.id4.com

Hope this helps.

Brandon

***
 * OLX 2.1 * "Are you ready for some football!!" -Tom Servo

--- Use the FORCE!!!
 * Origin: Feduberator * STAR WARS Support * (407)381-2798 (1:363/281)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 74 of 152
 From : Nicolai Shapero                     1:102/524       .åò 27 .þí 96 05:36
 To   : Leman Russ
 Subj : Re: cancelled
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Jun 24 04:44>, Leman Russ (1:2250/7) wrote to Todd Sullivan:

 LR> FYI, I never bashed B5 until I got flamed and banned from the B5
 LR>echo for defending trek from al lthe BABYlonains and their trek
 LR>bashing.

If you didn't like the trekbashing that you claim was on the B5 echo conference,
why did you stay?  It takes WORK, usually, to get banned from a conference.

-- Nicolai Shapero, Moderator of the SFFAN echo

--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 75 of 152
 From : Nicolai Shapero                     1:102/524       .åò 27 .þí 96 05:37
 To   : Leman Russ
 Subj : Re: cancelled
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Jun 24 04:48>, Leman Russ (1:2250/7) wrote to Jeff Hancock:

 LR> OH COME ON!!!!!! B5 sets itslef as good guys/bad guys like
 LR>nothing else. The shadows are the epipitome of evil, and their
 LR>ships even look likespididers just to make thems more horrid to
 LR>the human audience! They're all black (Ships and the shadows) and
 LR>are crafted to appeal to the phobias inthe human mind.

 LR> The "good guys" namely the vorlons, look like angels, and were
 LR>rippedoff fromthe creatures in "the abyss".

Yup.  It looks real obvious, don't it?  But there's a key point that you've
missed.  "No one is as they appear to be on Babylon 5".   My bet is that the
Shadows are really the GOOD guys (or at least better guys than the Vorlons, who
in addition to being arrogant, will turn out -- I'll bet -- to be BAD MFs before
the series is over).

-- Nicolai Shapero, the Mad Russian Sysop of StormGate Aerie

--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 76 of 152
 From : Nicolai Shapero                     1:102/524       .åò 27 .þí 96 05:39
 To   : Leman Russ
 Subj : SAAB
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Jun 24 05:01>, Leman Russ (1:2250/7) wrote to All:

 LR> So cheer up, SAABies, there will be at least a coiuple novels, a
 LR>fhanclub and probably a comic series from an indy company.

Based on the media novels that I've seen, however (for TREK, and B5) any media
novels will be BAD (story assignments given to hack writers for the most part
whose goal is "get it done by Thursday", rather than "get something GOOD
written...no matter how long it takes").

-- Nicolai Shapero, the Mad Russian Sysop of StormGate Aerie

--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 77 of 152
 From : Roy Stevens                         1:108/205       .pä 26 .þí 96 21:22
 To   : Barbara Manna
 Subj : PINKY AND THE BRAIN
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
BM>A Pinky/Brain fan!!!:)  Hi!:)  Do you have cable (what I'm trying to find ou
BM>is, how do I get the WB channel?)  I have PrimeStar but I don't think that t
BM>have the WB channel.:(  I used to watch them every day on Fox. Respond if
BM>you've got time, K?!:)

Try WGN, Sundays at 10:30am and again at 7:00pm

 * SLMR 2.1a * (A)bort, (R)etry, (W)hackitonthesideofthemonitor!

--- TMail v1.31.5
 * Origin: MultiSystem * Cincinnati, OH * 513-231-7013 * (1:108/205)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 78 of 152
 From : Roy Stevens                         1:108/205       .pä 26 .þí 96 21:49
 To   : Frank Swarbrick
 Subj : SAAB CANCELLATION
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
FS>Yeah, that stupid football is annoying.  Here in Colorado SAAB was only dela
FS>once, that I know of, because of it, but in other time zones I know it's
FS>delayed a lot.  I hate sports on TV, and that just makes it all the much wor
FS> Keep the sports on ESPN and PSN, and leave the networks for regular shows,
FS>say!

Don't get me wrong.  I don't watch sports and don't plan on starting.
As a capitalist at heart though, I can understand why they show it.  My
beef is just when it runs overtime and I miss my shows.  It'd be fine
with me if they just planned on starting it a 1/2 hour later or so, as
long as they actually showed it when planned.  But enough griping.

What'd you think of the latest Sliders episode?


 * SLMR 2.1a * "Tagline? What's that? And, are we taxing it?!" - Clinton

--- TMail v1.31.5
 * Origin: MultiSystem * Cincinnati, OH * 513-231-7013 * (1:108/205)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 79 of 152
 From : Roy Stevens                         1:108/205       .pä 26 .þí 96 21:57
 To   : Mark Jones
 Subj : THEN AND NOW...
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
MJ>And its only going to get more amazing.  (I predict that within 10 years,
MJ>Paramount Studios will be producing *new* episodes of the original Star Trek
MJ>with the ORIGINAL CAST, looking just as they did at their best in the 60's.
MJ>And Paramount won't be alone.)

Ack!!! Just goes to show that improvements in technology doesn't
necessarily mean improvements in society. Please please please leave the
original Star Trek alone.  I like it just the way it is.

But to bring this back to the original subject (stagnation of techology
in B5), why hasn't Earth tech evolved more in the next 264 years?  The
only thing I've really seen them do that we couldn't do now is the
Stargates -- and humans got the idea from aliens first.  The rest of
their high tech environment is simply a matter of riches.

 * SLMR 2.1a * What food these morsels be........

--- TMail v1.31.5
 * Origin: MultiSystem * Cincinnati, OH * 513-231-7013 * (1:108/205)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 80 of 152
 From : Bob Klahn                           1:234/2         .åò 27 .þí 96 16:57
 To   : Kay Shapero
 Subj : BRIN'S UPLIFT UNIVERS
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 KS> On <Jun 23 16:27>, Bob Klahn (1:234/2) wrote to Kay Shapero:

 KS> suspicions about official data you can't check directly ever since I
 KS> researched that XYY genetic flaw corollation with excess violence
 KS> business back in the mid '70s and found the whole thing was based on
 KS> two studies of a total of maybe 20 people, all of who were already
 KS> incarcerated.  That thing seems to have moldered away, but I'll bet you

 I didn't know that. Seems to me I've heard of other studies of people in
 prison being interpreted that way. Selecting your group is a major problem.

 I hate claims that cite studies that we peons don't have access to.

 Come to think of it, wasn't that XYY flaw the basis for the Gor world?

BOB KLAHN

... '42'?!  7.5 million years and all y-- oh, you were running Windows
 * Silver Xpress V4.3P RB10275

--- FLAME v1.1
 * Origin: Telnet toltbbs.com or call 313-854-6001, Boardwatch #55 (1:234/2)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 81 of 152
 From : Bob Klahn                           1:234/2         .åò 27 .þí 96 16:58
 To   : Todd Sullivan
 Subj : THEN AND NOW...
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 TS> Reports from the Interior indicate that Bob Klahn leaked the following
 TS> to Mark Jones, re: THEN AND NOW...

 ...

 MJ>>> original Star Trek with the ORIGINAL CAST, looking just as they did at
 MJ>>> their best in the 60's.  And Paramount won't be alone.)

 BK>>  Can you just see the negotiations for the rights to the characters?
 BK>> It's one
 BK>>  thing to claim the right to the idea of Spok, quite another to use the
 BK>> image
 BK>>  of Lenord Nemoy in that roll. We're probably talking millions here.

 TS> True, but the copyrights are still held by Paramount.  However, Majel
 TS> Barret-Roddenberry still has the rights to her late husband's creation.

 The copyrights to the characters maybe, but the copyright to Nemoy? I don't
 think that would work. They could use the characters as they wish, but I'd
 bet they'd have to get permission to use the image of the actors.

 BK>>  Can you see the negotiations with the heirs of Abe Lincoln? An old
 BK>> photo may be public domain, but the person?

 TS> Same thing happened to one of the Vanderbilts.  The name got acquired
 TS> into the public domain, just like Trek.

 The name, but not the person. Though I do suspect after a lapse of time the
 image may be considered public domain.

 I wouldn't be surprised to see laws passed about it though.

BOB KLAHN

... Math and Alcohol don't mix.  Please don't drink & derive.
 * Silver Xpress V4.3P RB10275

--- FLAME v1.1
 * Origin: Telnet toltbbs.com or call 313-854-6001, Boardwatch #55 (1:234/2)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 82 of 152
 From : Bob Klahn                           1:234/2         .åò 27 .þí 96 16:58
 To   : All
 Subj : MY WIFE'S HEALTH.
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 Mary, my wife, is home from the hospital. She came home last week,
 Wednesday, June 19, just one day short of 8 weeks after her stroke. She is
 recovering well, and only seems to be lacking her sense of balance to be
 well on her way to a full recovery. Physical therapy is continuing, and her
 progress continues also. We still have high hopes for a full recovery.

 Many have written to express their concern, for which I thank you.

BOB KLAHN

... I used to pray for miracles, now I just pray for comfort.   <DJJ
 * Silver Xpress V4.3P RB10275

--- FLAME v1.1
 * Origin: Telnet toltbbs.com or call 313-854-6001, Boardwatch #55 (1:234/2)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 83 of 152
 From : Frank Glover                        1:2613/477      .òp 25 .þí 96 22:01
 To   : Brion Lienhart
 Subj : Re: INCONSISTENT SHADOWS.
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

BL>   -CL> The Puppeteers bought the hyperdrive II technology from
BL>   -CL> another race.  I pretty sure it was the same race that
BL>   -CL> originally sold the first hyperdrive version.
BL>
BL>  As I recall, the puppeteers bought the hyperdrive from the Outsiders,
BL>  but came up with the QII by themselves. It was parked in the outer
BL>  solar system because a human was the last one to operate it, before
BL>  Louis Wu & Co. If anybody has a copy of _Crashlander_ handy, it
BL>  should be in there.

   I don't know any of the plot details, but Niven has a new novel out, `The
Ringworld Throne.' Since it's far enough out that the level II hyperdrive is
needed to reach it in a reasonable time, more might be said of it there.

   Frank


--- QuickBBS 2.80 GoldBase (Zeta-2.0a)
 * Origin: The Matrix Data Bank BBS, Rochester, Ny (1:2613/477)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 84 of 152
 From : Frank Glover                        1:2613/477      .pä 26 .þí 96 22:14
 To   : Bob Klahn
 Subj : Re: THEN AND NOW...
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

BK>   I wonder, even though he is a public figure, doing an actual
BK>  representation
BK>   of the person is different than someone acknowledged to be an actor
BK>  playing
BK>   the roll. Can't you imagine a computer generated actor playing the
BK>  roll of
BK>   Abe Lincoln?

   I still can't see a legal difference between that, and a live actor or
conventional (whatever that is now...even hand-drawn animation is often computer
`assisted.') animation of Lincoln.

BK>   Do you think some computer programmer will decide he's just had
BK>  enough of
BK>   Shatner's speach affectations, and reprogram him to actually speak
BK>  like a
BK>   normal human being?

   We! can! only! hope!

BK>   Will Sulu still be captain of his own starship, or will he go back
BK>  to the
BK>   bridge of the Enterprise.

   Both. As I noted before, it should be possible to do any of them at any stage
of their lives. We can do Sulu as a young cadet, Captain of the Excelsior, or
anything before, later, or in between. (Imagine re-doing the animated episode
`Yesteryear' where Spock must go to Vulcan's recent past to prevent his own
death as a child, with the visually convincing image of the young, rejuvenated
Spock at a similar age in Star Trek III. Not to mention the barely tapped period
when Christopher Pike commanded the Enterprise....with, of course, permission of
the estate of the late Jeffery Hunter....)

   Frank


--- QuickBBS 2.80 GoldBase (Zeta-2.0a)
 * Origin: The Matrix Data Bank BBS, Rochester, Ny (1:2613/477)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 85 of 152
 From : Frank Glover                        1:2613/477      .pä 26 .þí 96 22:17
 To   : Bob Klahn
 Subj : Re: CANCELLED
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

BK>   FG>    (For instance, whatever happened to those Puppet Master-like
BK>  beings
BK>   FG>    that were taking control of Starfleet high command?)
BK>
BK>   I still think they weaseled their way out of the Borg situation.

   Yeah, but it looks like the next Trek movie is going to be heavily Borg
oriented, so there may still be some hope there.

   Frank


--- QuickBBS 2.80 GoldBase (Zeta-2.0a)
 * Origin: The Matrix Data Bank BBS, Rochester, Ny (1:2613/477)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 86 of 152
 From : Frank Glover                        1:2613/477      .pä 26 .þí 96 22:32
 To   : Brion Lienhart
 Subj : Re: So, How about that Hunchback?
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 S P O I L E R   W A R N I N G ! !
























BL>  Esmerelda has the hots for is no prince either. Since everybody dies
BL>  at the end, it's not your typical Disney happy ending.

   You might have refrained from telling us that without warning, though.

   Frank


--- QuickBBS 2.80 GoldBase (Zeta-2.0a)
 * Origin: The Matrix Data Bank BBS, Rochester, Ny (1:2613/477)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 87 of 152
 From : Todd Sullivan                       1:202/720.3     .åò 27 .þí 96 16:33
 To   : Leman Russ
 Subj : cancelled
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Reports from the Interior indicate that Leman Russ leaked the following to me,
re: cancelled

 LR>  FYI, I never bashed B5 until I got flamed and banned from the B5 echo
 LR> for defending trek from al lthe BABYlonains and their trek bashing.

That's as may be.  Not everyone jumps in boots first.

You could have been more urbane and *ignored* them, but from what I've seen
here, you're not old or thick-skinned enough for that to work.

Todd Sullivan

... "You are the Skeptic.  You have the power to Doubt." --Socrates

-*- ASTG 1.9

--- Spot 1.3a Unregistered
 * Origin: Todd's Spot in the Continuum (1:202/720.3)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 88 of 152
 From : Todd Sullivan                       1:202/720.3     .åò 27 .þí 96 16:38
 To   : Brion Lienhart
 Subj : So, How about that Hunchback?
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Reports from the Interior indicate that Brion Lienhart leaked the following to
All, re: So, How about that Hunchback?

 BL> Has anybody seen this yet? I think it's on topic here, it's basically a
 BL> complete fantasy. From what I recall of reading the book many moons
 BL> ago, Quasimodo wasn't really your typical Disney hero, the priest was
 BL> really not a nice guy, and Esmerelda and wassname, the guy that
 BL> Esmerelda has the hots for is no prince either. Since everybody dies at
 BL> the end, it's not your typical Disney happy ending.

Like most of the fairy tales/stories Disney has "adjusted", "Hunchback" is not a
happy story.  All the Grimm's fairy tales were nasty and gruesome. I've read a
few of the originals (hard to come by) and they're NOT for children.  They're
more like cautionary tales for soon-to-be-adults in the 13-17 year age range.

Todd Sullivan

... Do you suppose incest is the reason we have Fundamentalists?

-*- ASTG 1.9

--- Spot 1.3a Unregistered
 * Origin: Todd's Spot in the Continuum (1:202/720.3)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 89 of 152
 From : Frank Glover                        1:2613/477      .ÿò 28 .þí 96 20:56
 To   : Todd Sullivan
 Subj : Re: cancelled
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

TS>   FG> has a tendency to do that. They often introduce elements out of
TS>  which a
TS>   FG> decent story arc could be made, then leave them hanging. (For
TS>  instance,
TS>   FG> whatever happened to those Puppet Master-like beings that were
TS>  taking
TS>   FG> control of Starfleet high command?)
TS>
TS>  They were wiped out at the end of the episode (of course), which was
TS>  named "Conspiracy".

   Yes, the ones doing the actual infiltrating were. But where's the rest of
their civilization? If they went to these lengths to try to control Starfleet,
thenm as Spock once said to Harry Mudd; `Logically, they must have a compelling
motive.' Why? Where are they? Will they be back? Are some of them still here,
just laying low? At least the similar actions of the Founders has become a
consistent thread in DS9....

   Frank


--- QuickBBS 2.80 GoldBase (Zeta-2.0a)
 * Origin: The Matrix Data Bank BBS, Rochester, Ny (1:2613/477)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 90 of 152
 From : Bob Klahn                           1:234/2         .ÿò 28 .þí 96 17:50
 To   : Don Bach
 Subj : THEN AND NOW...
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 BK>>  Can you see the negotiations with the heirs of Abe
 BK>> Lincoln? An old photo may
 BK>>  be public domain, but the person?

 DB> An android Abe performs several times each day in the Hall of
 DB> Presidents at Disney World.  I haven't heard of any discussions between
 DB> Disney and the Lincoln family. OR with the families of the other
 DB> presidents.

 You know, I'd forgotten all about them.

 I can see an entire body of law developing around this. Abe Lincoln was a
 public figure as an elected office holder. William Shatner is a public
 figure only as an actor. Abe Lincoln died over 100 years ago. Shatner is
 still alive. I know Lincoln was portrayed in movies almost as soon as movies
 came out, let's say within 50 years of his death, but the period of a
 copyright was less than 50 years, and you actually had to register a
 copyright then. Now the period of a copyright is life plus 50 years, and you
 don't have to register one.

  So, let's say there is some studio actually depraved enough to want to do a
  computer generated Shatner. Now, I can see the courts might allow a
  computer Lincoln, but I'd bet Shatner, or his heirs, would win. I can see
  restrictions on using a character to perform his actual function by
  computer generation just apart from the issue of copying him in general.
  Boy, will that get complicated.

 Now, let's make it even more complicated. Let's say I want to hire Whitney
 Houston to record an album, but I can't afford her. Now, I could compu-copy
 Whitney, but I'll get sued up to the middle of the next century. So, I look
 for a way around it. Let's see, there was a cola commercial with a woman who
 looked a lot like Whitney, a celebrity impersonator.

 Now, let's kick in one more complicating factor. Mariah Carrey sounds an
 awful lot like Whitney Houston, but looks nothing like her. She's much
 shorter. Now, let's further assume Mariah retires either because she wants
 to withdraw from the public spotlight, or because some illness or accident
 forces her to. Because she needs money, she licenses her voice to a record
 company. This company hires the Whitney look alike to lip sync to Carrey's
 voice. I'll push it even one step further. Let's say Mariah loses her voice,
 and can never sing again. So, the record company computer synthesizes her
 voice. Now, as a gimmick they decide to do a cartoon show with the image of
 the Whitney lookalike and the synthesized voice of Mariah Carrey.

 Let's see where that takes us. We have a computer generated cartoon, which
 can look very realistic, with a woman who looks and sounds like Whitney
 Houston. Even if they give her a name completely different, there will still
 be some "draw" from the image and voice.

 So, Whitney sues. The record company argues they aren't using her image or
 voice. Mariah Carrey's lawyers argue it's her voice, she has the right to
 use it as she pleases. The look-alike's lawyers argue that the fact that she
 looks sorta like Whitney does not deny her the right to seek fame on her
 own.

 I can see the possibility of this leading to a situation where there is no
 protection at all for anybody. So there is no Shatner look-alike active,
 they'll find one somewhere. Elvis may be trademarked and copyrighted up to
 his ears, but there are dozens of immitators. They just need one to do the
 bit without taking the name. Perhaps the entire Graceland empire will fall.

 Almost as likely computer generated human immitators will be banned
 entirely. I can actually see that happening. Either that, or the collapse of
 the human based entertainment industry completely. Jim Carrey won't be able
 to demand $20 mill a movie if some studio can get a similar image for free.

 DB> The Disney World robots were quite advanced when they were first made
 DB> over 20 years ago.  Disney probably has quite a detailed book on robot
 DB> reliability and maintenance.

 Be interesting if the ultimate robots are eventually not credited to
 Asimov, but to Disney.

BOB KLAHN

... Time travel is possible if you know the right stuff to buy at Radio Shack.
 * Silver Xpress V4.3P RB10275

--- FLAME v1.1
 * Origin: Telnet toltbbs.com or call 313-854-6001, Boardwatch #55 (1:234/2)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 91 of 152
 From : Bob Klahn                           1:234/2         .ÿò 28 .þí 96 17:50
 To   : Todd Sullivan
 Subj : B5 BS
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 TS> Reports from the Interior indicate that Leman Russ leaked the following
 TS> to Mark Jones, re: B5 tech

 LR>>  The mimbarri were supposed to be the most advanced race going, except
 LR>> for the first ones, and it was their responsibility to rrealize how
 LR>> "less developed" races might react to the sight of s giant ship
 LR>> charging atthem with itsweapons ready to use.

 TS> Wrong.  It's nobody's "responsibility" to realize anything, expecially
 TS> when they know absolutely nothing about them.

 It is *EVERYONE'S* responsibility to be aware of the possible results of his
 actions.

 TS> Does the phrase "first contact" mean anything?

 Yeah, and a race that has been traveling space for over a thousand years has
 had much more opportunity to develop responsible first contact protocols
 than a race that has just started star travel. It is the responsibility of
 the more experienced race to anticipate the possible errors of a nearly
 completely inexperienced race.

 LR>>  And I still say the mimbs are pretty barbaric to seriously plan
 LR>> genocide over one incident, andthey WERE planning it untilthey found
 LR>> out that humans were getting their souls.

 TS> They did *not* plan genocide.  They all went "crazy" at once.  Don't
 TS> you pay attention to what's being said?  It was pointed out in
 TS> "Ceremonies of Light and Dark".

 Because they're crazy does not mean they are not capable of planning
 something. If they do go crazy enough to commit genocide for any such
 reason, that fact alone proves the original point that the Mimbari are not
 all that terribly superior.


BOB KLAHN

... Black Adder, Black Adder, You horrid little man....
 * Silver Xpress V4.3P RB10275

--- FLAME v1.1
 * Origin: Telnet toltbbs.com or call 313-854-6001, Boardwatch #55 (1:234/2)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 92 of 152
 From : Bob Klahn                           1:234/2         .ÿò 28 .þí 96 17:50
 To   : Frank Glover
 Subj : OUTER LIMITS
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 FG>>    Besides, a remake of `Soldier' with todays sfx would be invariably
 FG>> compared to `The Terminator,' even though Arnie's movie got there
 FG>> second. (And an agreement with Harlan Ellison had to be reached forthat
 FG>> film, because of its unintended similarites with `Soldier.' Next time
 FG>> you see the former, look for a credit `Acknowledging the works of
 FG>> Harlan Ellison.' And you can kind of tell that it was added into the
 FG>> already produced credits as an afterthought from the not quite smooth
 FG>> way it scrolls, compared to everything else.)

 I remember the "Glass Hand" episode, but not " Soldier". Could you give me a
 *very* brief synopsis to jog my memory? I think I may recall it, but I'm not
 sure. The one I'm thinking of had Michael Ansara as a warrior from the
 future.

BOB KLAHN

... Now, put down that hammer... (*&^^&()(*(&&^ NO CARRIER
 * Silver Xpress V4.3P RB10275

--- FLAME v1.1
 * Origin: Telnet toltbbs.com or call 313-854-6001, Boardwatch #55 (1:234/2)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 93 of 152
 From : Bob Klahn                           1:234/2         .ÿò 28 .þí 96 17:50
 To   : Todd Sullivan
 Subj : CANCELLED
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 TS> ... Bored?  #372.  Recopy the Bible substituting your name for God.

 I love this one. With an online copy of the Bible it isn't even hard to do.
 Maybe just the New Testament to start.

BOB KLAHN

... There's no such thing as a user friendly program with a 600 page manual.
 * Silver Xpress V4.3P RB10275

--- FLAME v1.1
 * Origin: Telnet toltbbs.com or call 313-854-6001, Boardwatch #55 (1:234/2)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 94 of 152
 From : Bob Klahn                           1:234/2         .ÿò 28 .þí 96 17:50
 To   : Jeff Hancock
 Subj : CANCELLED
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
GS>>different story. I think the best space battle I've ever seen on TV
GS>>was where the 50 or so Klingon ships attacked DS9. Pretty cool.

 JH> I think B5 had a more involved one, but this is to some degree a matter
 JH> of taste.  It didn't really seem to change much... have we seen a lot of

 Nobody really does a good space battle, most likely because:
 A: nobody has ever done the simulations to figure out how one would actually
 go.
 or
 B: A real space battle would be terribly complicated, or too boring to
 watch.

 However, the one on B5, well, the several on B5, are among the best I have
 seen. Esp the one of B5 and the rebel ships against Earth loyal ships.

 JH> could have been trouble.  The Minbari couldn't hang around to protect B5
 JH> forever, and then we would have had another attack by Earth forces.

 Well, they could, but....

GS>>        But they just guess how it would act, while the
GS>>pyrotechnicians have a model built to scale to destroy which would
GS>>look a little more real.

 JH> *sigh* ... The physics involved between a plastic model in one gravity
 JH> and a huge warship in zero gravity are vastly different.  At least with
 JH> CGI, they can run calculations showing how it should look, and simulate
 JH> that.

 Modern demolition experts know very well how explosions work, but not really
 in zero g. OTOH, they can estimate and make it look very good. I just wonder
 if anyone has ever tried to run the calculations. I do like the way the
 ships blew up on B5. Just a series of explosions along the length, but no
 sparkler/Death Star type pyrotechnics. Being understated made it more real
 to me.

BOB KLAHN

... "Hardware"...The part you kick!
 * Silver Xpress V4.3P RB10275

--- FLAME v1.1
 * Origin: Telnet toltbbs.com or call 313-854-6001, Boardwatch #55 (1:234/2)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 95 of 152
 From : Mark Jones                          1:105/302.47    .îí 24 .þí 96 22:42
 To   : Bob Klahn
 Subj : B5 TECH
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On (22 Jun 96) Bob Klahn wrote to Mark Jones...

 MJ> Was the knight "stupid"? No--merely ignorant. He acted in
 MJ> accordance with the customs of his people...and so did the
 MJ> Japanese. The customs simply happen to be different. These things
 MJ> happen.
 BK>
 BK> It is ignorant to assume your customs apply everywhere. It is
 BK> stupid for a people who are long experienced in relationships
 BK> with other peoples to so assume.

   Sometimes you have no choice but to act on what you know, even if
its almost certain to be wrong.  Tragic misunderstandings *do* happen
sometimes, and they can't all be blamed on stupidity.

 MJ> Notice, also, that they *didn't* commit genocide. They *could*
 MJ> have, but they didn't.
 BK>
 BK> They stopped only when they realized there was a relationship
 BK> between humans and Mimbari.

   The point is, however, that they did stop.



--- PPoint 1.78
 * Origin: Folcroft Sanitarium (hsmith@cure.com) (1:105/302.47)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 96 of 152
 From : Mark Jones                          1:105/302.47    .îí 24 .þí 96 22:46
 To   : Bob Klahn
 Subj : THEN AND NOW...
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On (22 Jun 96) Bob Klahn wrote to Mark Jones...

 MJ> And its only going to get more amazing. (I predict that within 10
 MJ> years, Paramount Studios will be producing *new* episodes of the
 MJ> original Star Trek with the ORIGINAL CAST, looking just as they
 MJ> did at their best in the 60's. And Paramount won't be alone.)
 BK>
 BK> Can you just see the negotiations for the rights to the
 BK> characters? It's one thing to claim the right to the idea of
 BK> Spok, quite another to use the image of Lenord Nemoy in that
 BK> roll. We're probably talking millions here.

   It's already going on, to some extent.  After all, plastic figures
bearing the likenesses of the actors from Trek (and other movies and
television series) are manufactured now.  I don't know if the actors
get any money for that--almost certainly Shatner and company don't,
since it wasn't anticipated when they signed on originally--but if not
now, then soon it *will* be a contract point.
   And I seem to recall hearing that many contracts nowadays have
clauses reserving electronic reproduction rights, even those which
don't exist to be exploited yet.  A really sharp actor (or actor's
agent) is going to make himself (or his client) very, very rich
someday soon by making sure the actor gets royalties for the use of
his likeness regardless of whether he is involved in the actual
creation of the film in question.

 BK> Can you see the negotiations with the heirs of Abe Lincoln? An
 BK> old photo may be public domain, but the person?

   I expect that copyright or trademark law will be extended to this
realm.  You're probably right--public domain rules will probably apply
to the likenesses of individuals from the past, but contemporary
actors and actresses will have to be paid for the use of their
likenesses in film.  (Though by the time that law becomes settled, the
movie studios will probably be generating artificial stars from
scratch--or from composites of real people.  It could bring back the
"star system" of the 30's and 40's, when studies owned stables of
stars under exclusive contract.)

   The mind boggles.  Hollywood could become even more hugely
profitable than it is now when stars no longer command multi-million
dollar salaries...because they're all *virtual* stars.  Starlets would
no longer simply add silicon to their bodies, they'd BE silicon...or
exist on silicon chips, anyhow.  And without the necessity for huge,
expensive film crews and sets, creating interactive game-like films,
where the viewer can affect the plotline gets easier still.


--- PPoint 1.78
 * Origin: Folcroft Sanitarium (hsmith@cure.com) (1:105/302.47)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 97 of 152
 From : David Johnston                      1:342/14        .óá 29 .þí 96 00:47
 To   : Leman Russ
 Subj : Re: Cancelled
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
-> You know what I WANT to see on B5? Well I'm gonna tellya anyway, so
-> there! I want to know why the shadows arethe way they are, why a race
-> so powerful and advanced screws around with lesser races. What drives
-> them? Did they have a lousey childhood? Were they abused? Are they
-> afraid of being overtaken?

But the only reason is metabiological.  The Shadows are parasites who
feed best off intelligent creatures.  They aren't even all that
advanced, really, but compensate with truly hellacious natural
superpowers.

--- PCBoard (R) v15.21/100
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Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 98 of 152
 From : David Johnston                      1:342/14        .óá 29 .þí 96 00:48
 To   : Brion Lienhart
 Subj : So, How About That Hunchb
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
-> Has anybody seen this yet? I think it's on topic here, it's basically
-> a complete fantasy. From what I recall of reading the book many moons
-> ago, Quasimodo wasn't really your typical Disney hero, the priest was
-> really not a nice guy, and Esmerelda and wassname, the guy that
-> Esmerelda has the hots for is no prince either. Since everybody dies
-> at the end, it's not your typical Disney happy ending.

Naturally Disney changed all that.

--- PCBoard (R) v15.21/100
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Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 99 of 152
 From : David Johnston                      1:342/14        .óá 29 .þí 96 00:51
 To   : Todd Sullivan
 Subj : B5 Bs
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
-> LR>  And I still say the mimbs are pretty barbaric to seriously plan
-> LR> genocide over one incident, andthey WERE planning it untilthey
-> found LR> out that humans were getting their souls.
-> They did *not* plan genocide.  They all went "crazy" at once.  Don't
-> you pay attention to what's being said?  It was pointed out in
-> "Ceremonies of Light and Dark".

Plan, intend, what's the diff?  The reason why the Mimbari were so
genocidally angry is clear though.  They are a dieing, diminishing race.
The death of each Mimbari takes them that much closer to oblivion.

--- PCBoard (R) v15.21/100
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Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 100 of 152
 From : David Johnston                      1:342/14        .óá 29 .þí 96 01:01
 To   : Roy Stevens
 Subj : Then And Now...
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
-> But to bring this back to the original subject (stagnation of
-> techology in B5), why hasn't Earth tech evolved more in the next 264
-> years?  The only thing I've really seen them do that we couldn't do
-> now is the Stargates -- and humans got the idea from aliens first.
-> The rest of their high tech environment is simply a matter of riches.

Consider, the only technoligical advances in the last 30 years which are
at all obvious are information storage and manipulation techniques.
While the process of invention and implementation still goes on, it
seems to mean less.

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Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 101 of 152
 From : David Johnston                      1:342/14        .óá 29 .þí 96 01:04
 To   : Nicolai Shapero
 Subj : Re: Cancelled
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
-> Yup.  It looks real obvious, don't it?  But there's a key point that
-> you've missed.  "No one is as they appear to be on Babylon 5".   My
-> bet is that the Shadows are really the GOOD guys (or at least better
-> guys than the Vorlons, who in addition to being arrogant, will turn
-> out -- I'll bet -- to be BAD MFs before the series is over).
->
-> -- Nicolai Shapero, the Mad Russian Sysop of StormGate Aerie

I don't agree.  We've had enough of a look at the future to see that the
Shadows really are the bad guys.  Of course, the Vorlons aren't all that
angelic in reality.  After all, they did send Jack the Ripper to torture
Delenn and whatsisname.  But the Shadows are clearly inimical to all
life, everywhere.

--- PCBoard (R) v15.21/100
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Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 102 of 152
 From : Nicolai Shapero                     1:102/524       .ÿò 28 .þí 96 05:55
 To   : Todd Sullivan
 Subj : Outer LImits
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Jun 25 19:16>, Todd Sullivan (1:202/720.3) wrote to Frank Glover:

 TS>You might find it interesting to learn that a possible episode
 TS>title for B5 will be "Demon on the Run", a sequel to the OL
 TS>episode.  Don't know if it will be what you might expect,
 TS>considering nothing on B5 has been what anyone expected.

Harlan's been a "creative consultant" on the show for some time.  And DEMON ON
THE RUN has been in the list of "episodes to come...sometime" for quite some
time.  But Harlan appears to have writers block again (still?) and I'll believe
it when I see the credits roll...

-- Nicolai Shapero, the Mad Russian Sysop of StormGate Aerie

--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 103 of 152
 From : Leman Russ                          1:2250/7        .åò 27 .þí 96 04:50
 To   : Kay Shapero
 Subj : Re: B5 tech
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 KS> I think Delenn h it about right when she said that the Minbari had
 KS> all gone mad together, and recovered from the madness just in time.


 Sorry, kid, but "temporary insanity" is no excuse for genocide, especially on a
racial scale over several years. Ifthe mimbs want to be respected and revered
for the age andnd development than they'd better act like a mature race instead
of a bunch of psychoes who go off at theslightest provocation.

 BTW, have the mimbs ever accecpted any responsibility for coming inwith their
weapons exposed? They mostly still seemto blame sherridan and throw fits
whenever he shows up, like the crew on the tregatti, the captain of the ship
sent to get it, andthe ones framing him for murder.

 I'd like to see something on B5: a human who's loved one was murdered by yhe
minbs during the war and who still hates them over it. Ifthe mimbs werewrong to
do what they did then can you blamethe guy for still hating them? What ifhe was
important and you had to convince himto help, even if it meant working withthe
mimbs, who he hates?

 That could be an interesting plot. I know they had the "homeguard" long ago and
they wererednecks who hated all aliens, but I'm talking about someone who
onlyhates the boneheads, with personal reason.

 I would like to seethe mimbs takesome responsibility for the war, andt ep witjh
"king arthur" came close, but not quite onthe money. It still dealt with the
fact a human fired firstand not the fact the mimbs took provocative action.

 BTW, I just discovered YAB51: The humans bought hyperdrive fromthe centauri,
and the centauri knew the mimbari. Why didn;t the cents tell humans about the
mimbari and their idiotic custom of charging at new races with weapons ready?

>:[

--- DLG Pro v1.0/DLGMail
 * Origin: Sage's Tower - Amiga - (618) 259-1844 (1:2250/7)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 104 of 152
 From : Leman Russ                          1:2250/7        .ÿò 28 .þí 96 04:49
 To   : Todd Sullivan
 Subj : Re: INCONSISTENT SHADOWS.
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 Jumpgate tech and hyperdrivre are the same thing. A jump ship is just one big
enough to carry around its own jumpgate maker. Look at the ep whenre a narn CA
opened a gate for a narn freighter to escape thru and you see it's the same
thing.

>:[

--- DLG Pro v1.0/DLGMail
 * Origin: Sage's Tower - Amiga - (618) 259-1844 (1:2250/7)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 105 of 152
 From : Leman Russ                          1:2250/7        .ÿò 28 .þí 96 04:51
 To   : Todd Sullivan
 Subj : Re: B5 BS
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 Idon't buy the "crazy" excuse. You don;t go insane for several years and plan a
careful military campaign that way.

 They knew whatthey weredoing, no "temporary insanity" plea will getthem off my
hook.

>:[

--- DLG Pro v1.0/DLGMail
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Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 106 of 152
 From : Eric Fishbein                       1:322/360       .óá 29 .þí 96 23:48
 To   : All
 Subj : Sliders Actually Decent!
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
    Did anyone see the "Invasion" episode this past Fri?  It was actually one of
the first decent episode so far.  Most of the time it's been pretty consistant
in its lack of inginuity and typical sci-fi fluffyness, but this recent episode
was done quite well.
    I wonder how much they're going to explore the avenues they opened in this
episode?  If not, I hope they materialize in a universe without an Earth.  Now
wouldn't that be interesting....for about 30 seconds. ;)

--- FLAME v1.0/b
 * Origin: Add TSX-BBS, The Swiss Army Knife For TBBS! 508.429.8385 (1:322/360)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 107 of 152
 From : Eric Fishbein                       1:322/360       .óá 29 .þí 96 23:52
 To   : All
 Subj : The Star Trek Network?
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
        With all the talk recently about another ST show in the works, does
anyone else get the impression that Paramount is working on an all Star Trek
cable network or something?
        With five shows it would be quite simple for them to show reruns all day
and movies occasionaly with no problem. Especially since its more than likely
we'll be seeing more than just one more new show and cast after cast moving on
to films, it seems inevitable.

--- FLAME v1.0/b
 * Origin: Add TSX-BBS, The Swiss Army Knife For TBBS! 508.429.8385 (1:322/360)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 108 of 152
 From : Lis Carey                           1:101/230       .ÿò 28 .þí 96 06:52
 To   : Jeff Hancock
 Subj : CANCELLED
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
JH>GS>different story. I think the best space battle I've ever seen on TV
JH>GS>was where the 50 or so Klingon ships attacked DS9. Pretty cool.

JH>I think B5 had a more involved one, but this is to some degree a matter
JH>of taste.  It didn't really seem to change much... have we seen a lot of
JH>Klingons hanging out in DS9 before?

Yes, as a matter of fact, we did semi-regularly see Klingons on or
passing through the station, and there was a Klingon restaurant on the
Promenade.

JH>So the Federation has another race
JH>as their enemy that wasn't much of a friend in the first place.

Although there were some tensions in the alliance, the Klingon Empire
was a valuable ally - and where they previously shared a long border
with a friendly power, they now share that long border with a hostile
power that they're on the edge of war with. And the Cardassians,
previously a significant hostile power, are now no longer hostile, but
_also_ no longer militarily significant. They're looking for aid, not
able to offer it.

These are significant changes, especially from the viewpoint of the
Starfleet personnel assigned to Deep Space Nine. Before, they were there
chiefly to show the flag. Now, they're sitting on the front lines of two
wars, which have just been revealed to be the same war - and it's about
to heat up.

JH>B5 turned its back and seceded on a corrupt Earth Alliance.  I'd call
JH>that a significant change.

Yes, it is, a very significant change.

JH>GS>JH>Gul Dukat's no G'kar, that's for sure.
JH>GS>        I don't know who G'kar is.

JH>In some ways they are similar characters, they even look vaguely
JH>similar.

They look similar? Perhaps - to people who didn't snicker when JMS
claimed that the commander of DSN [Ben Sisko] had the same initials as
the commanders of B5 [Jeffrey Sinclair and John Sheridan].

Neither coloring nor skin texture is remotely similar.

JH>At first they were enemies, and then they became more
JH>sympathetic;

Very true - also a standard literary technique, commonly used in
anything that tries to have more depth than a Saturday morning cartoon.

JH>except G'kar has evolved over all three seasons and Gul
JH>Dukat only took one major turn that I remember, when his government fell
JH>apart.

You haven't been paying attention. Gul Dukat was carefully and gradually
developed over three seasons before they had the Klingons kick the
stuffing out of the Cardassian Empire, and OTOH, while the biggest
changes in Dukat's character have come in his reaction to this disaster,
this is ALSO true of G'Kar, who has undergone major changes as a result
of being forced to deal with the disaster of his homeworld being
conquered by the Centauri.


 * OLX 2.1 TD * "If winning isn't important...why keep score?" Worf

--- FLAME v1.0
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Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 109 of 152
 From : Lis Carey                           1:101/230       .ÿò 28 .þí 96 06:59
 To   : Glenn Shaheen
 Subj : B5 RENEWED
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
GS>JH>No, it's not.  But if your reasons make no sense, they can still be
GS>JH>debated.
GS>        They make some sense. Even if I did start liking the show alot
GS>after a while I wouldn't tell you, cuz you'd say "I told you so".

GS>JH>Besides, I'm not "deciding" for you, merely suggesting.  Weren't you
GS>JH>trying to "decide" for everyone else when you were wishing B5 would get
GS>JH>cancelled?
GS>        No, I was just wishing it would get cancelled.

Glenn, if it stays on the air, no one is going to force you to watch it.
OTOH, if it gets cancelled, those of us who enjoy it will be _unable_ to
watch it.

You were wishing we would be deprived of a show we enjoy, because _you_
don't like it. You were wishing that the studio would decide for us that
we couldn't watch it any more.

This is really rather pointlessly unfriendly of you. I don't like
SEINFELD, which makes me downright unAmerican, as far as I can tell, and
I do get tired of people raving about it - but I don't go around wishing
it would get cancelled; I just don't watch it.


 * OLX 2.1 TD * For the Snark WAS a Boojum, you see.

--- FLAME v1.0
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Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 110 of 152
 From : Brandon Wolgast                     1:363/281       .ÿò 28 .þí 96 15:27
 To   : Leman Russ
 Subj : Cancelled
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE/32 1.2

LR> FYI, I never bashed B5 until I got flamed and banned from the B5 echo for
LR>defending trek from al lthe BABYlonains and their trek bashing.

There has never been any real and long going Trek bashing in the B5 echo
for over 3 years (I've been there about that long).  There is the
occasional person who says how crappy Trek is (or vice versa) and they
are almost always removed.  And if it's a B5 echo they can bash Trek all
they want, and the same goes for the Trek echo bashing B5.

***
 * OLX 2.1 * Press "+" to see another tagline.

--- Use the FORCE!!!
 * Origin: Feduberator * STAR WARS Support * (407)381-2798 (1:363/281)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 111 of 152
 From : Brandon Wolgast                     1:363/281       .ÿò 28 .þí 96 15:34
 To   : Leman Russ
 Subj : Cancelled
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE/32 1.2

LR> OH COME ON!!!!!! B5 sets itslef as good guys/bad guys like nothing else. Th
LR>shadows are the epipitome of evil, and their ships even look likespididers j
LR>to make thems more horrid to the human audience! They're all black (Ships an
LR>the shadows) and are crafted to appeal to the phobias inthe human mind.

LR> The "good guys" namely the vorlons, look like angels, and were rippedoff
LR>fromthe creatures in "the abyss".

Vorlons good? Uhm, perhaps you do not watch the show. They are hardly
"good." And they do not look like angels, it is well known to anyone who
watches the show that that is how they make themselves APPEAR to us.
JMS has said when a Vorlon sees another Vorlon he sees a "proper" Vorlon
and that we would one day see what one really look like as well.  And a
good guy would hardly slam the commander of the station against the
wall, and also torture him and the Minbari ambassador ("Comes the
Inquisitor").

And the Shadows evil? Why do you say that?  You know we ARE going to
find out why they are doing what they are doing.

As for The Abyss, it may shock you to know that the same guy designed
the aliens in that movie who designed what the Vorlons look like in B5.


LR> So don't say B5 sets things up for the viewer to decide,

they putthings in LR>nice, simple. good/bad terms.

LR> You know what I WANT to see on B5? Well I'm gonna tellya anyway, so there!
LR>want to know why the shadows arethe way they are, why a race so powerful and
LR>advanced screws around with lesser races. What drives them? Did they have a
LR>lousey childhood? Were they abused? Are they afraid of being overtaken?

Keep watching, you'll find out. The Shadow War will be over very early
next season. In the next new episode of season 3, "Walkabout" we are
going to find out a lot more about them.

LR> In B5 the shadows are just the bad guys, no ex-planation, no rational. If
LR>they're so advanced it seems thatthey'd be above getting their rocks off
LR>messing with lesser races, so why do they do it?

As Yoda has said, "The boy has no patience." Just wait, this is not Trek
(yeah now I'm comparing) where everything is explain right there. Watch
and wait. It took an entire YEAR to even find out that the ship in first
seaso that was on screen for about TWO SECONDS was a Shadow ship. You
just gotta wait, which is why B5 is becoming so much more popular, it
actually draws you into it, but it does take a certain kind of person to
understand it.

LR> I want to hear from a shadow, to hear his side of things. A certain other S
LR>show made its "baduys" a lot more 3D than B5s shadows.

What show? Surely not DS9. (terrible seasing ender I might add, they
have no ruined not just Data but Odo as well).  You will learn more
about the Shadows in time, but I guess the humans, the Minbari, the
Narns, and the Centauri are also kinda "flat" and not 3D.

LR> My only tory about the shadows is that they, andthe other first ones like t
LR>vorlons, are Booooooored to tears and play elaborate games with each other,
LR>manipulating lesser races like pawns. That would fit with everything and
LR>until.unless I see a better explanation I'mn going to assume that'swhat it i
LR>>:[

You mine as well just stop watching the show, JMS has said we will not
really get into what the Vorlons are until fifth season.

Brandon

***
 * OLX 2.1 * "Only Imperial Stormtroopers are so precise." - Obi-Wan

--- Use the FORCE!!!
 * Origin: Feduberator * STAR WARS Support * (407)381-2798 (1:363/281)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 112 of 152
 From : Kay Shapero                         1:102/524       .óá 29 .þí 96 21:44
 To   : Bob Klahn
 Subj : BRIN'S UPLIFT UNIVERS
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Jun 27 16:57>, Bob Klahn (1:234/2) wrote to Kay Shapero:

 BK> I hate claims that cite studies that we peons don't have access
 BK>to.

Oh, the studies were perfectly accessable - I looked 'em up back when I was in
college which is how I found *out* about the limited sample.  I gather it's died
a natural death by this time.

 BK> Come to think of it, wasn't that XYY flaw the basis for the Gor
 BK>world?

Hanged if I know.  Or, to be quite honest, care.  But at least you DID manage to
drag it back on topic... :->

But then the original topic was Brin's Uplift Universe, so how d'ya like that
series?

--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 113 of 152
 From : Glenn Shaheen                       1:3600/7        .pä 26 .þí 96 21:58
 To   : Todd Sullivan
 Subj : B5 renewed
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

TS>Forget it, Jeff.  Like many other Trekkies, his mind's made up, and nothi
TS>you say can change it.  Jimmy Dixon would like this guy.

        See? Stereotype b5 freak who has nothing better to do than trash
Trek and its fans blindly. In fact, weren't you the same person who
was trashing Voyager blindly too?
-=-
 * OLX 2.2 * Hear about the nudist convention?  Not much coverage...

--- SLMAIL v3.5C  (#1540)
 * Origin: Robotech þ Lake City's Music*Demo BBS þ [904] 758*9477 (1:3600/7)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 114 of 152
 From : Glenn Shaheen                       1:3600/7        .pä 26 .þí 96 22:12
 To   : Jeff Hancock
 Subj : cancelled
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

JH>I thought you were some big DS9 fan?

        I didn't have much time on weekends until the summer, now it's
all repeats. I've watched enough to understand what's going on.

JH>I think B5 had a more involved one, but this is to some degree a matter
JH>of taste.  It didn't really seem to change much... have we seen a lot of
JH>Klingons hanging out in DS9 before?  So the Federation has another race
JH>as their enemy that wasn't much of a friend in the first place.

        But better an unfriendly ally than unfriendly enemy.

JH>B5 turned its back and seceded on a corrupt Earth Alliance.  I'd call
JH>that a significant change.

        And you don't see the Klingon thing as signifigant? One of the
major surprises of TNG was the Klingons being good. Now they aren't.

JH>In some ways they are similar characters, they even look vaguely
JH>similar.  At first they were enemies, and then they became more
JH>sympathetic; except G'kar has evolved over all three seasons and Gul
JH>Dukat only took one major turn that I remember, when his government fell
JH>apart.

        Well some people just don't change.


JH>You watched it?  I thought you wouldn't like that one which is why I
JH>said so.  I'd say yes and no...  it wasn't all that critical as such,
JH>but it was setting things up for later and if it hadn't happened, there
JH>could have been trouble.  The Minbari couldn't hang around to protect B5
JH>forever, and then we would have had another attack by Earth forces.

        Still something for the big picture.

JH>I don't know exactly what you mean.  You mean in the pilot?  She had
JH>saved, captured, and interrogated him during the Battle of the Line; and
JH>what she found out caused the Minbari to surrender just as they were on
JH>the edge of completely wiping out the entire human race.  Of course, we
JH>didn't really find all this out for an entire season, although there
JH>were hints.

        Yeah, thanks.

JH>Oh, yeah, YOU were the one.  I was going to make some crack about that,
JH>but then I thought maybe you were the one who sat through it all.  Heh,
JH>yeah, like Weird Science was so much better that you couldn't stay to
JH>see how it all turned out.  Nice flashy space battle too.

        It hurt my mind it was so bad. And I already saw the news.

JH>*I* thought it was.

        Well *I* didn't.


JH>Sometimes you're right, it doesn't seem that way.  On the other hand...
JH>You missed the episode where Shadow ships sliced some Narn cruisers
JH>right in half.  Both pieces just fell away, kind of like that old parody
JH>where someone splits a hair on the edge of their sword lengthwise.

JH>Let's see them do *that* with their models.

        If the CGI were seamless than it would be excellent, but
it's not. Everything looks TOO smooth and TOO perfect. In space, there
would be scars and deformations.

JH>*sigh* ... The physics involved between a plastic model in one gravity
JH>and a huge warship in zero gravity are vastly different.  At least with
JH>CGI, they can run calculations showing how it should look, and simulate
JH>that.

        But it still doesn't look as real, because of the graphics.


JH>Some of the first season ones did, but pretty much everything else has
JH>been just fine.  I think you're just hung up on the difference.  Plastic
JH>models look like models, except your brain is used to that representing
JH>the real thing.  B5 isn't all accurate either (it'd be a LOT darker in
JH>most cases if they didn't light them up more), but it's better, and they
JH>have a wider variety of ships since they don't have to keep building and
JH>blowing up new models.

        Maybe the plastic models you buy at the store look like plastic
models, but these are models that cost a few thousand dollars more than
your average SNAP-TITE F-4. These look as real as it gets, without
building the actual thing.

-=-
 * OLX 2.2 * Docking Starships involves berth control.

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Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 115 of 152
 From : Glenn Shaheen                       1:3600/7        .pä 26 .þí 96 22:13
 To   : Jeff Hancock
 Subj : cancelled
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

JH>B5 or DS9?  B5's was way back first season, DS9's wasn't too long ago.

        Either.

JH>It was planned WELL in advance, and the actor was scheduled well in
JH>advance.  The Earth plotline has been set up since the beginning, first
JH>with hints and later with more blatant clues.  It just recently came to
JH>a head, and it was PLANNED to do so.

        And the writers at Paramount are privy to all this info?

-=-
 * OLX 2.2 * Why're they called BUILDINGS when they're already BUILT?

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 * Origin: Robotech þ Lake City's Music*Demo BBS þ [904] 758*9477 (1:3600/7)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 116 of 152
 From : Glenn Shaheen                       1:3600/7        .pä 26 .þí 96 22:15
 To   : Robert Lidgren
 Subj : Independence Day
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

RL>I am looking for information on the new film: "Independence Day."
RL>Does anyone here know of an ftp site or a Web Site devoted to this new
RL>movie?

        I looked and there were surprisingly few. Only 20 or so, and
        most of them just told summer movies. No graphics from it or
        anything.
-=-
 * OLX 2.2 * Hand me that dolphin burger. Yeah, the one in styrofoam.

--- SLMAIL v3.5C  (#1540)
 * Origin: Robotech þ Lake City's Music*Demo BBS þ [904] 758*9477 (1:3600/7)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 117 of 152
 From : Jeff Hancock                        1:3600/7        .åò 27 .þí 96 19:10
 To   : Todd Sullivan
 Subj : B5 renewed
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

TS>Forget it, Jeff.  Like many other Trekkies, his mind's made up, and
TS>nothing you say can change it.  Jimmy Dixon would like this guy.

Glenn?  Nah, he's got a chance.  Leman, now, there's a Dixon if I ever
saw one, at least on the bashing end.

Besides, B5 is one of those things that usually needs a little exposure
to before the real hooks sink in, rarely does one single episode grab
the first-time viewer.  And when it does, it completely kicks butt on
those who know what lead up to that. ;)

-=-
 * Crazy-J * "Drop dead, Rimmer!"   "Already have done."   "Encore!"

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Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 118 of 152
 From : Jeff Hancock                        1:3600/7        .åò 27 .þí 96 19:12
 To   : Frank Glover
 Subj : cancelled
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

FG>   Unfortunately, Trek in general (and I say this as a Trek fan,
FG>folks) has a tendency to do that. They often introduce elements out
FG>of which a decent story arc could be made, then leave them hanging.

Do you suppose there might be a good reason for that?  Like, if
different writers are involved, there might be some form of royalties
involved; or just that certain writers don't like concepts introduced by
others or just want to do their own ideas, so old ones get dropped?

Just a thought.  Can't hurt to see if there's a reason behind these
inconsistancies.
-=-
 * Crazy-J * Los Angeles: Where you can check the air with a dipstick.

--- SLMAIL v3.5C  (#1540)
 * Origin: Robotech þ Lake City's Music*Demo BBS þ [904] 758*9477 (1:3600/7)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 119 of 152
 From : Jeff Hancock                        1:3600/7        .åò 27 .þí 96 19:25
 To   : Charles Daniels
 Subj : The sf channel
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

CD>>I found some descriptions of it.  Police with tanks, that sounds
CD>Yeah, it's a lot better than it sounds though.  It wasn't mold

It didn't sound that bad. ;)

CD>..and there was a young female officer in love with a tank.

Was this a case of devout respect for fine machinery, or was the tank a
sentient A.I., or was it just kinky?

CD>> It's not that bad.  The original SM episodes were 25 minutes, and I
CD>Than I was sadly mis-informed.  I have only seen a few episodes and
CD>as they run at 5:30am it's hard to really concentrate on it.

I keep hearing different estimates on the hacking, but in general the
main changes are dialogue, cut scenes, a few dropped episodes, and the
end of the first original season.  I thought it had been described as
two hacked into one, since I've heard that it was three hacked into two.
Not having seen either the original or the DIC version of more than the
first couple of episodes, I have no personal experience to go from.

CD>> And as far as the morale message, blame Congress, they're the ones
CD>Hell, when did all this happen anyway?  This is crazy.  I mean my

It's been happening for some time now.  Don't forget, there are also
some kind of laws or regulations requiring stations to carry a certain
amount of educational programming, and naturally it's easier to stick a
"moral" on a 'toon so they can get the kidvid commericalization while
edging in under the edutainment requirement.

CD>sneezing, and cartoon bombs screaming before they exploded and none
CD>of that freudian and drak imagery screwed me up.  Damn!  I bet all

That's the ironic bit.  The people making the laws probably watched much
of the same... so if it didn't screw them up, why do they have a problem
with it?  And if it DID, then why are we trusting their judgement? ;)

CD>> By the way, I've got some fansubbed anime including the Sailor Moon
CD>Sure...umm you might find it easier to write to

Will do.
-=-
 * Crazy-J * When in Doubt, stay at the luxurious Doubt Hotel!

--- SLMAIL v3.5C  (#1540)
 * Origin: Robotech þ Lake City's Music*Demo BBS þ [904] 758*9477 (1:3600/7)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 120 of 152
 From : Todd Sullivan                       1:202/720.3     .ÿò 28 .þí 96 18:28
 To   : Glenn Shaheen
 Subj : cancelled
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Reports from the Interior indicate that Glenn Shaheen leaked the following to
me, re: cancelled

 TS>> What goes around comes around, Jim.  It's Trek's turn, is all. You
 TS>> don't
 TS>> like it, you shouldn't do it.

 GS>         Nobody was defending DS9, so I had to.

Oh, is that all?  Sheesh, there are better reasons to defend a show.

Todd Sullivan

... Achtung!  Alles lookens peepers!  Das komputermachine is nicht
     fuer gefingerpoken und mittengrabben.  Ist easy Schnappen der
     Schpringenwerk, Blowenfusen und Poppenkorken mit Spitzensparken.  Ist
     nicht fuer gerverken bei das Dumpkophen.  Das Rubbernecken Sichtseeren
     keepen das kottenpicken hans in das pockets muss; relaxen und watchen
     das blinkenlichten!

-*- ASTG 1.9

--- Spot 1.3a Unregistered
 * Origin: Todd's Spot in the Continuum (1:202/720.3)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 121 of 152
 From : Todd Sullivan                       1:202/720.3     .ÿò 28 .þí 96 18:33
 To   : Ken Mayes
 Subj : So, How about that Hunchback?
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Reports from the Interior indicate that Ken Mayes leaked the following to Brion
Lienhart, re: So, How about that Hunchback?

 KM>         Yeah, from what I've seen (without actually seeing the movie
 KM> and I don't think I will go to see the movie) it appears that they
 KM> butchered the original story.

 KM>         Without giving anything away, I will say that I picked up and
 KM> read the last few pages of the children's adaptation of the screenplay
 KM> just to see if the really important tragic ending was preserved. I
 KM> doubted that it would be and I was not surprised. What can you expect
 KM> from Disney after all?

 KM>         If they ever did Hamlet, they'd probably have the Prince of
 KM> Denmark and his girlfriend getting married at the end with his father
 KM> who was magically restored to life after the defeat of the evil villian
 KM> king officiating the ceremony. ":).

That's about right.

Disney's always been free to use "artistic license", IMO.  You want bad, try
working for them.  You have to look and act like a Mousketeer to work for them,
*period*.  That's right, you have to look as though you stepped right out of the
1950s.  Bobby and Annette, anyone?

Todd Sullivan

... "Well, as my great-grandfather used to say, `cool'!" --Sheridan

-*- ASTG 1.9

--- Spot 1.3a Unregistered
 * Origin: Todd's Spot in the Continuum (1:202/720.3)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 122 of 152
 From : Jeff Hancock                        1:3600/7        .ÿò 28 .þí 96 19:44
 To   : Leman Russ
 Subj : cancelled
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

LR> FYI, I never bashed B5 until I got flamed and banned from the B5
LR>echo for defending trek from al lthe BABYlonains and their trek

When precisely were you ever in the B5 echo, Leman?

And as a point of note, anyone with barely an average intelligence
should be able to figure out that a conference labeled "Babylon 5" is
for discussion of B5, not Trek.  Trek was, and still is, off-topic in
the rules (although brief digressions are allowed, and have NOT been
entirely negative as you would have people believe), and considering
your continual whining and carrying on about this great injustice you
claim was perpetrated upon you, I have no doubt that even if you had
remained on-topic you would have been yelled at anyway for being hostile
and inflammatory, not to mention a poor sport.

Frankly, given your opinions, one would wonder why you would care enough
to harp on about it at every possible opportunity.
-=-
 * Crazy-J * Back on topic? Ok, but my back's gonna be sore for days.

--- SLMAIL v3.5C  (#1540)
 * Origin: Robotech þ Lake City's Music*Demo BBS þ [904] 758*9477 (1:3600/7)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 123 of 152
 From : Jeff Hancock                        1:3600/7        .ÿò 28 .þí 96 19:51
 To   : Leman Russ
 Subj : cancelled
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

LR> Not every SF show gets compared to trek! I've never compared Red
LR>Dwarf to trek, nor did I feel starcops was comparable but it deserved

"Just because you ain't seen it don't make it not so."

Your ego aside, you do not represent the entire collective of fandom.

LR> I didn't feel that B7 should be compared to trek,

Why, did Trek continually suffer in comparison?  <G>

LR> I didn;t compare B5 to trek, but got sick of Bolack and his buddies
LR>endlessly going on about how it was better than trek and making trek

What goes around comes around.  So you figured you would put in your two
cents so that people could get sick of you doing the reverse?  Oh, yeah,
brilliant logic there.

Why don't we just drop all the crap about which is better and which
isn't, and just settle for watching or not watching what we like?  The
whole reason this fired up again anyway was that someone's reason for
not watching B5 was because "it wasn't as good as Trek", which I
disagree with, but it's JUST AN OPINION.  And besides, I don't think
Trek is as good as B5 but I still make time to watch it anyway... <g>

-=-
 * Crazy-J * A meg here, a meg there, soon it adds up to real memory.

--- SLMAIL v3.5C  (#1540)
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Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 124 of 152
 From : Jeff Hancock                        1:3600/7        .ÿò 28 .þí 96 20:03
 To   : Leman Russ
 Subj : cancelled
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

LR> OH COME ON!!!!!! B5 sets itslef as good guys/bad guys like nothing

If those are the only terms you can see it in..

LR>else. The shadows are the epipitome of evil, and their ships even
LR>look likespididers just to make thems more horrid to the human

You're casting human motives on something meant to be alien.

As for the "epitome of evil", how so?  What have they done?  They don't
mind offing sentient beings, but then we have no right to talk.

I'm not saying they're good, but I'll bet things will turn out to be not
so black and white by the end of the season. <g>

LR>audience! They're all black (Ships and the shadows) and are crafted
LR>to appeal to the phobias inthe human mind.

Hmmm..  you know, this could be taken as a racist comment.

LR> The "good guys" namely the vorlons, look like angels, and were
LR>rippedoff fromthe creatures in "the abyss".

Since you obviously haven't been watching the show, you wouldn't know
that the Vorlons may or may not actually look like angels, that's the
image they project to others and likely not their real form.  Also,
since they visited Earth in the past, they're probably the reason there
are "angels" to begin with - they were based on eyewitness accounts of
the Vorlons!

And if you think the Vorlons are "good"...  They don't interfere with
other races except to deny them immortality (by killing one of those
sentient beings, you might notice), threaten to kill off a few thousand
for the non-release of someone who may have tried to assassinate their
ambassador, torture the leaders on the "side of light" to "see if
they're worthy" using someone with all the moral fibre of Jack the
Ripper - namely Jack himself -, and shamelessly manipulate entire races
and leaders of those races into sacrificing themselves for the purpose
of the Vorlons.

If you call that "good", then I fear your judgement is severely
impaired.

LR> You know what I WANT to see on B5? Well I'm gonna tellya anyway, so
LR>there! I want to know why the shadows arethe way they are, why a race
LR>so powerful and advanced screws around with lesser races. What drives

And we should find out by the end of the season, so Kwit Cherbychin.

LR> In B5 the shadows are just the bad guys, no ex-planation, no

We don't even know they're bad, we've just been _told_ that, and the
evidence looks that way.

And, when we saw Londo and G'kar strangling each other back in his dream
from _The Coming of Shadows_, everyone thought they knew what it meant,
too... and with _War Without End_ part two, we found out that things
were not as we thought they were, now were they?

LR> I want to hear from a shadow, to hear his side of things. A certain
LR>other SF show made its "baduys" a lot more 3D than B5s shadows.

Made them human, more like.  Motivations humans can understand and even
share, rather than alien.

LR> My only tory about the shadows is that they, andthe other first ones
LR>like the vorlons, are Booooooored to tears and play elaborate games
LR>with each other, manipulating lesser races like pawns. That would fit
LR>with everything and until.unless I see a better explanation I'mn
LR>going to assume that'swhat it is. >:[

You're going to assume this, and yet you still think the Vorlons are
good even though they manipulate lesser races.

Uh huh.

No comment.
-=-
 * Crazy-J * "I lost at Russian Roulette", Tom said absentmindedly.

--- SLMAIL v3.5C  (#1540)
 * Origin: Robotech þ Lake City's Music*Demo BBS þ [904] 758*9477 (1:3600/7)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 125 of 152
 From : Jeff Hancock                        1:3600/7        .ÿò 28 .þí 96 20:12
 To   : Glenn Shaheen
 Subj : cancelled
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

GS>        But better an unfriendly ally than unfriendly enemy.

Debatable, but generally true.

GS>JH>B5 turned its back and seceded on a corrupt Earth Alliance.  I'd call
GS>JH>that a significant change.
GS>        And you don't see the Klingon thing as signifigant? One of
GS>the major surprises of TNG was the Klingons being good. Now they

Not too significant.  For one thing, that's why - they were bad, then
they were good, now they've reverted to type.  Not too unexpected, but
at the same time not specifically foreshadowed, if Klingon/Federation
differences had been building up for some time then it would be a little
more believable.  (not that one incident won't do the job sometimes)

Funny how they only attacked DS9 though, and haven't really attacked
since.

GS>JH>Let's see them do *that* with their models.
GS>        If the CGI were seamless than it would be excellent, but it's
GS>not. Everything looks TOO smooth and TOO perfect. In space, there
GS>would be scars and deformations.

Guess you haven't noticed them then, or you're not taking scale into
account.  When you see close-ups, you generally see the gritty details,
but the worn paint or scars aren't going to be all that visible from a
distance unless it's major damage.

GS>JH>CGI, they can run calculations showing how it should look, and
GS>        But it still doesn't look as real, because of the graphics.

Because you've been trained to believe plastic models are "real".
Neither one is "real".  But B5 comes closer.

In fact, some of that "perfectness" may be part of what you don't get.
In space, with no atmosphere to scatter the light, shadows are sharp and
clear, not scattered with an uneven boundary, so something with
ruler-straight defined areas of light and dark is going to look
"unreal"... but that's how it looks in space.

GS>        Maybe the plastic models you buy at the store look like
GS>plastic models, but these are models that cost a few thousand dollars
GS>more than your average SNAP-TITE F-4. These look as real as it gets,
GS>without building the actual thing.

I've seen the DS9 specials, including one of the actual models used, and
the blowing up of another spaceship model... some A&E special, I think.

It's still a model, with the limitations that entails.
-=-
 * Crazy-J * "The patient was sideswiped by a car riding a motorcycle"

--- SLMAIL v3.5C  (#1540)
 * Origin: Robotech þ Lake City's Music*Demo BBS þ [904] 758*9477 (1:3600/7)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 126 of 152
 From : Jeff Hancock                        1:3600/7        .ÿò 28 .þí 96 20:16
 To   : Glenn Shaheen
 Subj : cancelled
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

GS>JH>B5 or DS9?  B5's was way back first season, DS9's wasn't too long
GS>        Either.

Some people with tapes have done a straight comparison of the two; but I
didn't save any of 'em to disk.

Interestingly enough, some people compared another DS9 episode to B5,
and the B5 creator pointed out the DS9 one was a lot more like an older
movie or novel then it was to the B5 ep.

GS>JH>beginning, first with hints and later with more blatant clues.  It
GS>JH>just recently came to a head, and it was PLANNED to do so.
GS>        And the writers at Paramount are privy to all this info?

They could see what was likely to happen as much as any of the fans
were, what they couldn't tell is when.

Aside from that...  production is not a static environment.  Rumor
spreads, and scripts can leak.  One of the final versions of the script
for ST:Generations was on the Internet before the movie aired.

-=-
 * Crazy-J * The pure and simple truth is rarely pure and never simple

--- SLMAIL v3.5C  (#1540)
 * Origin: Robotech þ Lake City's Music*Demo BBS þ [904] 758*9477 (1:3600/7)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 127 of 152
 From : Jeff Hancock                        1:3600/7        .ÿò 28 .þí 96 21:30
 To   : Bob Klahn
 Subj : CANCELLED
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

BK> As long as you mentioned the Prime Directive....

Whoops, looks like I've stepped in it again.

BK> I think their use of the prime directive is one of the stupidest
BK>things they could come up with.

There is some rationale for that, you know.  Imagine what Napoleon would
have done if he'd had the atom bomb, or Genghis Khan with semiautomatic
weapons. (and I'll leave the nit-picking details and arguments to those
that enjoy them)

On the other hand, there is the train of thought that says you can't
bring something into the world before - or after - society is ready for
it.  If too soon, then it just won't catch on until people are ready to
accept it; and there is no too late - when it's time, it'll happen,
whether anyone likes it or not.

(and I don't plan to argue over that reasoning either)

BK> In one episode an entire planet was about to be destroyed, an entire
BK>sentient species wiped out, and the Enterprise was prepared to stand

I don't recall that specific one... Unless it was the one with
Christopher Lloyd claiming he had come from the future?

BK>by and do nothing. Starfleet is not allowed to interfere with the
BK>development of any race, even when that development is about to come
BK>to a screeching, and permanent, halt.

Perhaps it was a parable to the present, as Trek often is.  Right now
species of animals which have evolved for millions of years to fit
specific niches are finding those niches disappearing due to man's
encroachment, carelessness, ignorance, or what-have-you.  Do we go to
extraordinary lengths to preserve these species and/or niches, or decide
that if they can't cope with change then that's just too bad for them?

Of course, on Earth most everything is interconnected to some degree,
whether anyone realizes what impact a certain species may have on the
environment or not until it's gone.  Planets don't really matter
significantly in that sense, what happens on one world isn't going to
affect another if the race has no space capability.

BK> But of course, as Pickard said, that may be their destiny. Screw
BK>destiny, do something.

Another possibility, what sort of morale impact do you think it would
have on a race if they couldn't even save themselves?  For one, every
time there was a problem they might be begging for help, and once the
helping hand is extended at what point does it let go?

There are probably a number of other arguments on both sides, but I'm
too tired to think them out right now. ;)  But just try playing devil's
advocate for a bit, try to figure possible arguments on both sides, and
maybe that will provide a better answer.  I'm not supporting or
condemning the Prime Directive just yet, only theorizing.

-=-
 * Crazy-J * To hell w/the Prime Directive, give the Borg the HoloDoc!

--- SLMAIL v3.5C  (#1540)
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Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 128 of 152
 From : Jeff Hancock                        1:3600/7        .ÿò 28 .þí 96 21:33
 To   : Kay Shapero
 Subj : Sabotaging Babylon
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

KS>GS> They're ALWAYS trying to sabotage the babylon project. And I
KS> JH>Who is?  You still haven't answered that question. ;)

[.....]

KS>Yep, they're all just doing their level best to sabotage the Babylon

Oooooooohhhh, Kay-chan... That was positively *evil*.
I loved it!

Say, maybe that's what DS9 needs, saboteurs of the Deep Space project.
Whatever happened to the first eight, anyway?  <snicker>
-=-
 * Crazy-J * Kzinti Diplomatic Corps - Let's do lunch!

--- SLMAIL v3.5C  (#1540)
 * Origin: Robotech þ Lake City's Music*Demo BBS þ [904] 758*9477 (1:3600/7)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 129 of 152
 From : Bob Klahn                           1:234/2         .óá 29 .þí 96 14:33
 To   : Frank Glover
 Subj : THEN AND NOW...
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
BK>>   I wonder, even though he is a public figure, doing an actual
BK>>  representation
BK>>   of the person is different than someone acknowledged to be an actor
BK>>  playing
BK>>   the roll. Can't you imagine a computer generated actor playing the
BK>>  roll of
BK>>   Abe Lincoln?
 FG>
 FG>    I still can't see a legal difference between that, and a live actor
 FG>    or conventional (whatever that is now...even hand-drawn animation is
 FG>    often computer `assisted.') animation of Lincoln.

 Doing a computer animation of Lincoln would be different than doing a
 computer simulation of some big name actor doing Lincoln.

 Jeremy Brett was playing Sherlock Holmes in the BBC series. Now that he has
 died, I could see some producer coming up with the idea of computer
 renditions of more Sherlock Holmes stories with the image of Jeremey Brett.
 Yet, that's not Sherlock Holmes, that's the actor Jeremy Brett. At that
 point we get into the issue of where does the actor, or his heirs, rights to
 his own image begin or end.

BK>>   Do you think some computer programmer will decide he's just had
BK>>  enough of
BK>>   Shatner's speach affectations, and reprogram him to actually speak
BK>>  like a
BK>>   normal human being?
 FG>
 FG>    We! can! only! hope!

 OK.

BK>>   Will Sulu still be captain of his own starship, or will he go back
BK>>  to the
BK>>   bridge of the Enterprise.
 FG>
 FG>    Both. As I noted before, it should be possible to do any of them at
 FG>    any stage of their lives. We can do Sulu as a young cadet, Captain
 FG>    of the Excelsior, or anything before, later, or in between. (Imagine

 Or, they could even do Sulu as captain of the Excelsior, and give him a look
 alike son on the Enterprise at the same time.

 FG>    re-doing the animated episode `Yesteryear' where Spock must go to
 FG>    Vulcan's recent past to prevent his own death as a child, with the
 FG>    visually convincing image of the young, rejuvenated Spock at a
 FG>    similar age in Star Trek III. Not to mention the barely tapped
 FG>    period when Christopher Pike commanded the Enterprise....with, of
 FG>    course, permission of the estate of the late Jeffery Hunter....)

 Oh my, the ST universe has just become more densly populated with so many
 revisitings of old themes.

 That's why I have long said there are not 10 original ideas in all of the
 old Star Trek. Please save us from computerized reworkings.

 Ironic, perhaps, the newest technology will probably be used to redo the
 same old things.

BOB KLAHN

... This is just one humble opinion, collect the whole series
 * Silver Xpress V4.3P RB10275

--- FLAME v1.1
 * Origin: Telnet toltbbs.com or call 313-854-6001, Boardwatch #55 (1:234/2)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 130 of 152
 From : Bob Klahn                           1:234/2         .óá 29 .þí 96 14:33
 To   : Frank Glover
 Subj : CANCELLED
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 FG>
BK>>   FG>    (For instance, whatever happened to those Puppet Master-like
BK>>  beings
BK>>   FG>    that were taking control of Starfleet high command?)
BK>>
BK>>   I still think they weaseled their way out of the Borg situation.
 FG>
 FG>    Yeah, but it looks like the next Trek movie is going to be heavily
 FG>    Borg oriented, so there may still be some hope there.

 I look forward to it, with trepidation.

BOB KLAHN

... Objective reality is a mass hallucination.
 * Silver Xpress V4.3P RB10275

--- FLAME v1.1
 * Origin: Telnet toltbbs.com or call 313-854-6001, Boardwatch #55 (1:234/2)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 131 of 152
 From : Frank Glover                        1:2613/477      .cê 30 .þí 96 14:33
 To   : Bob Klahn
 Subj : Re: OUTER LIMITS
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

BK>   I remember the "Glass Hand" episode, but not " Soldier". Could you
BK>  give me a
BK>   *very* brief synopsis to jog my memory? I think I may recall it, but
BK>  I'm not
BK>   sure. The one I'm thinking of had Michael Ansara as a warrior from
BK>  the
BK>   future.

   That's the one. A 20th century family befriends him, as one of the opposing
soldiers from the future war is looking for him. I think they used some kind of
psychic bond with cats for intelligence gathering, too. (Also reminiscent of how
dogs could tell human-looking Terminators from real humans.)

   Outer Limits episodes are commercially available at the larger video stores.
I don't have it, but I know `Soldier' is among them.

   Frank


--- QuickBBS 2.80 GoldBase (Zeta-2.0a)
 * Origin: The Matrix Data Bank BBS, Rochester, Ny (1:2613/477)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 132 of 152
 From : Owen E. Oulton                      1:243/45        .cê 30 .þí 96 13:23
 To   : Don Bach
 Subj : THEN AND NOW...
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 BK>  Can you see the negotiations with the heirs of Abe
 BK> Lincoln? An old photo may
 BK>  be public domain, but the person?

 DB> An android Abe performs several times each day in the
 DB> Hall of Presidents at Disney World.  I haven't heard of
 DB> any discussions between Disney and the Lincoln family.
 DB> OR with the families of the other presidents.

The Disney animatronics are a whole different deal, being basically artists'
representations.

As I see it, the first step in the use of both deceased actors and public
figures in film has already been taken.  Actual images of JFK, LBJ and Nixon
were manipulated in the movie Forrest Gump, all without the approval of their
estates and/or families.  Images of actors are used all the time, including a
Chanel No. 5 ad where an actress morphs into Marylin Monroe, and the use of
Bogart footage inserted into The Last Action Hero.  The big difference is that
with a public figure, you only have to pay royalties to the owner of the
copyright of the particular piece of film, while with actors, their image is
usually licensed by their estate.

If, in the future, the technology reached the state where they could completely
computer animate images of real people convincingly, a film company wanted to do
an all-singing, all-acting musical revue of the US Civil War, using computer
animated images scanned from historical sources (most of these guys seemed to
just love posing for that new-fangled "camera" thing), the producers wouldn't
have to pay a thing, since virtually all such images are in the public domain.
If, on the other tentacle, Paramount wanted to do Star Trek, The Original
Series: The New Adventures, they would likely have to pay a licensing fee to the
estates of any of the actors not alive at the time and to any actors still
alive.  Further, any of the actors still living at the time of the filming could
quite legally prevent their image from being used and altered beyond certain
limits (probably still to be determined).

CFN, O

--- Maximus 2.01wb
 * Origin: Pandora's Box, Ottawa, Ont. 613-829-1209 (1:243/45)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 133 of 152
 From : Owen E. Oulton                      1:243/45        .cê 30 .þí 96 13:38
 To   : Kay Shapero
 Subj : Re: cancelled
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 FG>hanging. (For instance, whatever happened to those Puppet
 FG>Master-like beings that were taking control of Starfleet high
 FG>command?)

 KS> I think they moved out of Star Trek space and fetched
 KS> up on Centauri Prime just in time for the second part
 KS> of War Without End... :->

What, the Bluegill?  Nah, they appeared earlier in B5 season 3, and convinced
the B5-ers that they were good guys who just wanted to leave...  Yeah, right!

CFN, O

--- Maximus 2.01wb
 * Origin: Pandora's Box, Ottawa, Ont. 613-829-1209 (1:243/45)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 134 of 152
 From : Owen E. Oulton                      1:243/45        .cê 30 .þí 96 13:46
 To   : Frank Glover
 Subj : Re: So, How about that Hunchback?
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 FG>  S P O I L E R   W A R N I N G ! !

For, a classic novel written 150-200 years ago?  I think not...

BL>  Esmerelda has the hots for is no prince either. Since everybody dies
BL>  at the end, it's not your typical Disney happy ending.
 FG>
 FG>    You might have refrained from telling us that without warning, though.

What, that the book has an ending which is "not your typical Disney happy
ending?"  You'll note that Nicolai does not tell us how Disney Bowdlerises the
ending, just that the book kills everyone off.

Gee, what other classic works do you think need spoilers?

The Bible?  Jesus returns at the end, tosses all the sinners into Hell, and
        all the good guys live happily ever after.

20,000 Leagues Under The Sea?  Sighted sub, sank same.

History Of The Civil War?  The North won, Lincoln got assassinated.

CFN, O

--- Maximus 2.01wb
 * Origin: Pandora's Box, Ottawa, Ont. 613-829-1209 (1:243/45)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 135 of 152
 From : Todd Sullivan                       1:202/720.3     .óá 29 .þí 96 19:19
 To   : Frank Glover
 Subj : So, How about that Hunchback?
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Reports from the Interior indicate that Frank Glover leaked the following to
Brion Lienhart, re: So, How about that Hunchback?

 FG>
 FG>  S P O I L E R   W A R N I N G ! !
 FG>
 FG>
 FG>
 FG>
 FG>
 FG>
 FG>
 FG>
 FG>
 FG>
 FG>
 FG>
 FG>
 FG>
 FG>
 FG>
 FG>
 FG>
 FG>
 FG>
 FG>
 FG>
 FG>
 FG>
 BL>>  Esmerelda has the hots for is no prince either. Since everybody dies
 BL>>  at the end, it's not your typical Disney happy ending.
 FG>
 FG>    You might have refrained from telling us that without warning,
 FG> though.
 FG>

All you had to do was read the book...

Todd Sullivan

... "I am Grey.  I stand between the candle and the star.  I stand between
     the light and the darkness." --Delenn

-*- ASTG 1.9

--- Spot 1.3a Unregistered
 * Origin: Todd's Spot in the Continuum (1:202/720.3)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 136 of 152
 From : Todd Sullivan                       1:202/720.3     .óá 29 .þí 96 19:21
 To   : Frank Glover
 Subj : cancelled
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Reports from the Interior indicate that Frank Glover leaked the following to me,
re: cancelled

 TS>>   FG> control of Starfleet high command?)
 TS>>
 TS>>  They were wiped out at the end of the episode (of course), which was
 TS>>  named "Conspiracy".
 FG>
 FG>    Yes, the ones doing the actual infiltrating were. But where's the
 FG> rest of their civilization? If they went to these lengths to try to
 FG> control Starfleet, thenm as Spock once said to Harry Mudd; `Logically,
 FG> they must have a compelling motive.' Why? Where are they? Will they be
 FG> back? Are some of them still here, just laying low? At least the
 FG> similar actions of the Founders has become a consistent thread in
 FG> DS9....

Seems they liked the idea well enough to dust it off, change the body lines and
/viola/!  A "new" plotline.

They've done it before, they'll do it again.

Todd Sullivan

... "If you're a discus thrower and you practice alone, you have to go get
     it yourself." --George Carlin

-*- ASTG 1.9

--- Spot 1.3a Unregistered
 * Origin: Todd's Spot in the Continuum (1:202/720.3)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 137 of 152
 From : Brandon Wolgast                     1:363/281       .cê 30 .þí 96 22:20
 To   : Frank Glover
 Subj : So, How About That Hunchb
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE/32 1.2

FG>BL>  Esmerelda has the hots for is no prince either. Since everybody dies
FG>BL>  at the end, it's not your typical Disney happy ending.

FG>   You might have refrained from telling us that without warning, though.

Don't worry, thats not the ending, he was lying.

Brandon

***
 * OLX 2.1 * "Only Imperial Stormtroopers are so precise." - Obi-Wan

--- Use the FORCE!!!
 * Origin: Feduberator * STAR WARS Support * (407)381-2798 (1:363/281)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 138 of 152
 From : Jeff Lutkus                         1:141/1114      .cê 30 .þí 96 22:30
 To   : Eric Fishbein
 Subj : Sliders Actually Decent!
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE 1.1+

-=> Quoting Eric Fishbein to All <=-

 EF> Did anyone see the "Invasion" episode this past Fri?  It was
 EF> actually one of the first decent episode so far.  Most of the time
 EF> it's been pretty consistant in its lack of inginuity and typical
 EF> sci-fi fluffyness, but this recent episode was done quite well. I
 EF> wonder how much they're going to explore the avenues they opened in
 EF> this episode?  If not, I hope they materialize in a universe without
 EF> an Earth.  Now wouldn't that be interesting....for about 30 seconds.
 EF> ;)

yes, indeed.  I agree with you there... well, in my personal opinion, I'd say
the show should go with a few writing guidelines... ie the universe around earth
is relatively the same... no asteriods are going to smash into the earth, the
earth is still there (well, unless the people blew it up with an a-bomb or
something).  But I heartily agree with what you say there.  Basically all the
shows went on the same assumption that everything on earth was exactly the same
as it was on ours until, say, the 1800's or later, at which point there was some
minor or major change.  There should be more earths where something happened
2000 years or 9000000000 years ago that make things really weird :)  (but for
that to happen, it would be nice if they could find some universal translators
like they use on Star Trek on some world since chances are, not everyone will
speak english)

... The way to a woman's heart is through her ribs.
--- D'OU!
 * Origin: The Stonecutters Society (1:141/1114)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 139 of 152
 From : Bob Klahn                           1:234/2         .cê 30 .þí 96 13:52
 To   : Nicolai Shapero
 Subj : CANCELLED
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 NS> On <Jun 24 04:48>, Leman Russ (1:2250/7) wrote to Jeff Hancock:

 LR>> OH COME ON!!!!!! B5 sets itslef as good guys/bad guys like
 LR>>nothing else. The shadows are the epipitome of evil, and their

 LR>> The "good guys" namely the vorlons, look like angels, and were
 LR>>rippedoff fromthe creatures in "the abyss".

 NS> Yup.  It looks real obvious, don't it?  But there's a key point that
 NS> you've missed.  "No one is as they appear to be on Babylon 5".   My bet

 You got that part right, however, I'm going to disagree on the next part.

 NS> is that the Shadows are really the GOOD guys (or at least better guys
 NS> than the Vorlons, who in addition to being arrogant, will turn out --
 NS> I'll bet -- to be BAD MFs before the series is over).

 It may well turn out that the Vorlons are bad guys, however, I'll bet that's
 in addition to the shadows, not instead of.

 As to what LR said about the Vorlons looking like angels, that's only to
 humans. Each race sees them as the personification of something exceedingly
 good from their history. The result of millenia of evolutionary
 interference.

 What I notice about the Shadow ships is their resemblence to the Vorlon
 ships. Both have the tentacle appendages. Either they have developed similar
 technology, and the form is driven by the technology, or their is some
 connection.

 How about, the Shadows are not an elder race at all, but a servant race
 developed by the Vorlons who developed their independence long ago, and now
 seek to enslave where they were slaves. This would explain their lack of
 development over the ages, they were designed with limitations, they could
 use what they were taught, but not develop their own technology. It would
 also imply the Vorlons were not always the nice guys they are now. Add to
 that it would explain, at least partly, their reticence in dealing openly
 with other races and their meddling in the development of other races. The
 Vorlon could be burdened with an ancient guilt for their creation of a slave
 race, and yet have to continue to meddle to prepare the younger races to
 meet the danger.

 That might also explain the elder races hostility toward the Vorlons, they
 know the truth.

 Of course, I don't expect any of this to be the actual explanation, the
 producers and writers will come up with their own plot developments. This is
 just how I would do it.

 OTOH, should anyone from B5 want to use any of this, I'm cheap, just give me
 a credit as a "consultant" or some such.

BOB KLAHN

... Apathy error:  Strike any key... Or none for that matter.
 * Silver Xpress V4.3P RB10275

--- FLAME v1.1
 * Origin: Telnet toltbbs.com or call 313-854-6001, Boardwatch #55 (1:234/2)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 140 of 152
 From : Bob Klahn                           1:234/2         .cê 30 .þí 96 13:52
 To   : Nicolai Shapero
 Subj : SAAB
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 NS> On <Jun 24 05:01>, Leman Russ (1:2250/7) wrote to All:

 LR>> So cheer up, SAABies, there will be at least a coiuple novels, a
 LR>>fhanclub and probably a comic series from an indy company.

 NS> Based on the media novels that I've seen, however (for TREK, and B5)
 NS> any media novels will be BAD (story assignments given to hack writers
 NS> for the most part whose goal is "get it done by Thursday", rather than
 NS> "get something GOOD written...no matter how long it takes").

 Thunk...(Sound of nail being hit on the head.)

BOB KLAHN

... ...Home is behind, the world ahead, and there are many paths to tread.
 * Silver Xpress V4.3P RB10275

--- FLAME v1.1
 * Origin: Telnet toltbbs.com or call 313-854-6001, Boardwatch #55 (1:234/2)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 141 of 152
 From : Bob Klahn                           1:234/2         .cê 30 .þí 96 13:52
 To   : Roy Stevens
 Subj : THEN AND NOW...
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
MJ>>And its only going to get more amazing.  (I predict that within 10 years,
MJ>>Paramount Studios will be producing *new* episodes of the original Star
MJ>>PTrek

 RS> Ack!!! Just goes to show that improvements in technology doesn't
 RS> necessarily mean improvements in society. Please please please leave the
 RS> original Star Trek alone.  I like it just the way it is.

 If they can colorize Casablanca they can exploit anything.

 You know creativity is not a meaningful term in Hollywood, or anywhere in
 the entertainment industry. If it will make a buck, they'll do it.

 RS> But to bring this back to the original subject (stagnation of techology
 RS> in B5), why hasn't Earth tech evolved more in the next 264 years?  The
 RS> only thing I've really seen them do that we couldn't do now is the
 RS> Stargates -- and humans got the idea from aliens first.  The rest of
 RS> their high tech environment is simply a matter of riches.

 I would say there is some development, but not enough for 264 years.

 Way back in Astronomy class we went through an analysis to determine the
 likelyhood of intelligent life in this galaxy, outside of Earth, of course.
 We already know there isn't any here. (I had to say it before someone else
 did.)

 By the time you got through the number of stars in the Galaxy, their sizes,
 etc, all the aproximately known numbers, then went through the requirements
 for life as we know it, then you got into the assumptions. They guessed the
 likely percentage of stars with planets, etc, going for the low figures as
 much as possible. About the last figure considered was the life expectancy
 of a species from the time they developed radio, which was necessary as we
 were looking at the probability of a species existing which could be
 detected by radio telescopes. (SETI)

 Well, the figure they came up with was one million years. This was based on
 the fact that nobody could see any reason a race *wouldn't* survive that
 long if they got past our present stage of being ready, willing, and able to
 blow themselves up.

 My reply to that was, given our current rate of development, if things kept
 up the way they are going now in a thousand years we will develop so far
 beyond what we are now that we will be unable to communicate with "us" as we
 are now. Not only will our technology probably go beyond radio, but we,
 ourselves, will have nothing to say "we", now, would be capable of
 understanding, or maybe even recognizing as communications.

 So, I put the limit at 1,000 years, not 1 million.

 There is a book, "Marooned in Real Time", which came out sometime after my
 astronomy class, which considered this also. The Author gave it a few
 hundred years, and at the end said he actually thought it would be even
 less, but didn't want to push his credibility. I share, and shared his
 thinking. When I came up with my analysis I thought a few hundred years, but
 thought that would be pushing the believability. I still think a few hundred
 to a thousand. The book postulated the development of a direct computer
 connection to the brain as the stimulus for the intellectual explosion. If
 that development occurs I will also go for a much shorter time span. And
 that ain't too unlikely.

 So, I beleive they offer so little development over such a long time span
 because, if they offered a realistic analysis they'd have a race of humans
 nobody alive today could even understand. Or, to look at it another way,
 they would have to make it fantasy rather than SF. That technology would be
 sufficiently advanced to be indistinguishable from magic.

BOB KLAHN

... Keptin, it's an inwisible moderator decloaking..
 * Silver Xpress V4.3P RB10275

--- FLAME v1.1
 * Origin: Telnet toltbbs.com or call 313-854-6001, Boardwatch #55 (1:234/2)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 142 of 152
 From : David Johnston                      1:342/14        .îí 01 .þë 96 00:19
 To   : Jeff Hancock
 Subj : Cancelled
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
-> BK> In one episode an entire planet was about to be destroyed, an
-> entire BK>sentient species wiped out, and the Enterprise was prepared
-> to stand
-> I don't recall that specific one... Unless it was the one with
-> Christopher Lloyd claiming he had come from the future?

Two such episodes come to mind, the one where Data started communicating
with the little girl on the doomed planet, and the one where Worf's
brother bullied them into saving some of the sentients.

-> Perhaps it was a parable to the present, as Trek often is.  Right now
-> species of animals which have evolved for millions of years to fit
-> specific niches are finding those niches disappearing due to man's
-> encroachment, carelessness, ignorance, or what-have-you.  Do we go to
-> extraordinary lengths to preserve these species and/or niches, or
-> decide that if they can't cope with change then that's just too bad
-> for them?

We do actually go to some substantial lengths to preserve at least some
of these endangered creatures.

--- PCBoard (R) v15.21/100
 * Origin: Freddy's Place - Edm. AB - 33.6K (403) 413-3460 (1:342/14)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 143 of 152
 From : David Johnston                      1:342/14        .îí 01 .þë 96 00:21
 To   : Eric Fishbein
 Subj : Sliders Actually Decent!
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
->   Did anyone see the "Invasion" episode this past Fri?  It was
-> actually one o
-> the first decent episode so far.  Most of the time it's been pretty
-> consistant in its lack of inginuity and typical sci-fi fluffyness,
-> but this recent episode was done quite well.

I thought that it was less interesting in its own right than most of the
recent Sliders episodes.

--- PCBoard (R) v15.21/100
 * Origin: Freddy's Place - Edm. AB - 33.6K (403) 413-3460 (1:342/14)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 144 of 152
 From : Todd Sullivan                       1:202/720.3     .cê 30 .þí 96 17:07
 To   : Bob Klahn
 Subj : CANCELLED
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Reports from the Interior indicate that Bob Klahn leaked the following to me,
re: CANCELLED

 TS>> ... Bored?  #372.  Recopy the Bible substituting your name for God.

 BK>  I love this one. With an online copy of the Bible it isn't even hard
 BK> to do.
 BK>  Maybe just the New Testament to start.

It's another of the irreligious trags I got from elsewhere.  "It's just a bit of
fun." <G>

Todd Sullivan

... "Klingon males do not roar.  The females roar." --Worf

-*- ASTG 1.9

--- Spot 1.3a Unregistered
 * Origin: Todd's Spot in the Continuum (1:202/720.3)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 145 of 152
 From : Todd Sullivan                       1:202/720.3     .cê 30 .þí 96 17:11
 To   : Nicolai Shapero
 Subj : Outer LImits
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Reports from the Interior indicate that Nicolai Shapero leaked the following to
me, re: Outer LImits

 NS> On <Jun 25 19:16>, Todd Sullivan (1:202/720.3) wrote to Frank Glover:

 TS>> You might find it interesting to learn that a possible episode
 TS>> title for B5 will be "Demon on the Run", a sequel to the OL
 TS>> episode.  Don't know if it will be what you might expect,
 TS>> considering nothing on B5 has been what anyone expected.

 NS> Harlan's been a "creative consultant" on the show for some time.  And
 NS> DEMON ON THE RUN has been in the list of "episodes to come...sometime"
 NS> for quite some time.  But Harlan appears to have writers block again
 NS> (still?) and I'll believe it when I see the credits roll...

                  ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Sounds like a motto for all B5 fans. <G>


We've still got two(?) seasons to go.  It's still possible.  Harlan can't have
"literary constipation" forever....

Todd Sullivan

... "Life's been good to me so far." --Joe Walsh

-*- ASTG 1.9

--- Spot 1.3a Unregistered
 * Origin: Todd's Spot in the Continuum (1:202/720.3)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 146 of 152
 From : Todd Sullivan                       1:202/720.3     .cê 30 .þí 96 17:15
 To   : Glenn Shaheen
 Subj : B5 renewed
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Reports from the Interior indicate that Glenn Shaheen leaked the following to
me, re: B5 renewed

 TS>> Forget it, Jeff.  Like many other Trekkies, his mind's made up, and
 TS>> nothi
 TS>> you say can change it.  Jimmy Dixon would like this guy.

 GS>         See? Stereotype b5 freak who has nothing better to do than
 GS> trash
 GS> Trek and its fans blindly. In fact, weren't you the same person who
 GS> was trashing Voyager blindly too?

Blindly?  I watched Voyager and couldn't believe its lack of quality, which
started with the first regular episode.

I've dealt with Jimmy D before.  He made the Trek echos into a free-fire zone
after a year, and he's about median as far as Trekkies go.

Since you weren't there, you're not qualified to comment.

Todd Sullivan

... A halo has only to fall a few centimeters to become a noose.

-*- ASTG 1.9

--- Spot 1.3a Unregistered
 * Origin: Todd's Spot in the Continuum (1:202/720.3)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 147 of 152
 From : Todd Sullivan                       1:202/720.3     .cê 30 .þí 96 17:16
 To   : Jeff Hancock
 Subj : B5 renewed
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Reports from the Interior indicate that Jeff Hancock leaked the following to me,
re: B5 renewed

 TS>> Forget it, Jeff.  Like many other Trekkies, his mind's made up, and
 TS>> nothing you say can change it.  Jimmy Dixon would like this guy.

 JH> Glenn?  Nah, he's got a chance.  Leman, now, there's a Dixon if I ever
 JH> saw one, at least on the bashing end.

 JH> Besides, B5 is one of those things that usually needs a little exposure
 JH> to before the real hooks sink in, rarely does one single episode grab
 JH> the first-time viewer.  And when it does, it completely kicks butt on
 JH> those who know what lead up to that. ;)

I think what really bothers the Trek fans is that B5 takes more risks than Any
rendition of Trek after TOS has or will.

This is what grabbed me from the first, and what's kept the loyal group ever
since.

Todd Sullivan

... Nine times out of ten the statisticians are wrong.

-*- ASTG 1.9

--- Spot 1.3a Unregistered
 * Origin: Todd's Spot in the Continuum (1:202/720.3)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 148 of 152
 From : Glenn Shaheen                       1:3600/7        .óá 29 .þí 96 17:43
 To   : Jeff Hancock
 Subj : cancelled
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

JH>LR> I didn't feel that B7 should be compared to trek,

JH>Why, did Trek continually suffer in comparison?  <G>

        To Blake's 7? Gaagh!

-=-
 * OLX 2.2 * Kevorkian Suicide Machine -- Not the Heartbeat of America

--- SLMAIL v3.5C  (#1540)
 * Origin: Robotech þ Lake City's Music*Demo BBS þ [904] 758*9477 (1:3600/7)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 149 of 152
 From : Glenn Shaheen                       1:3600/7        .óá 29 .þí 96 17:49
 To   : Jeff Hancock
 Subj : cancelled
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

JH>Funny how they only attacked DS9 though, and haven't really attacked
JH>since.

        Yeah, I kinda wondered about that. Isn't that an act of war?

JH>Guess you haven't noticed them then, or you're not taking scale into
JH>account.  When you see close-ups, you generally see the gritty details,
JH>but the worn paint or scars aren't going to be all that visible from a
JH>distance unless it's major damage.

        And since I don't watch B5 much, I was basing my opinion
of their CGI on Space: Above and Beyond, whose CGI jes plain sucks.

JH>In fact, some of that "perfectness" may be part of what you don't get.
JH>In space, with no atmosphere to scatter the light, shadows are sharp and
JH>clear, not scattered with an uneven boundary, so something with
JH>ruler-straight defined areas of light and dark is going to look
JH>"unreal"... but that's how it looks in space.

        Ohhhh. And you've been in space. There is space dust, however,
which would scatter the light.

JH>I've seen the DS9 specials, including one of the actual models used, and
JH>the blowing up of another spaceship model... some A&E special, I think.

JH>It's still a model, with the limitations that entails.

        And your computer graphics are still computer graphics, with
the limitations that entail.

-=-
 * OLX 2.2 * The world: a comedy for thinkers; a tragedy for feelers.

--- SLMAIL v3.5C  (#1540)
 * Origin: Robotech þ Lake City's Music*Demo BBS þ [904] 758*9477 (1:3600/7)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 150 of 152
 From : Glenn Shaheen                       1:3600/7        .óá 29 .þí 96 17:51
 To   : Jeff Hancock
 Subj : cancelled
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

JH>Some people with tapes have done a straight comparison of the two; but I
JH>didn't save any of 'em to disk.

        Well, I'm sure there is two-way stealing of ideas. B5 probably
copies from DS9 just as much.

JH>They could see what was likely to happen as much as any of the fans
JH>were, what they couldn't tell is when.

        But they might not have copied.
-=-
 * OLX 2.2 * There once was a man from Nantucket...

--- SLMAIL v3.5C  (#1540)
 * Origin: Robotech þ Lake City's Music*Demo BBS þ [904] 758*9477 (1:3600/7)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 151 of 152
 From : Gerry Normandeau                    1:163/430       .cê 30 .þí 96 22:02
 To   : Todd Sullivan
 Subj : cancelled
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
* MOOD: Strictly official :-|

On 25-Jun-96, standing at the gallows pole Frank Glover spat a curse on Todd
Sullivan accusing him of cancelled!

 TS> Reports from the Interior indicate that Frank Glover leaked
 TS> the following to Jeff Hancock, re: cancelled

 TS>  FG>
 JH>>>  Long storylines, you say?  Damn, I'd sure love to see 'em.  Oh, you
 JH>>>  mean
 JH>>>  the background plot elements that get kicked around once in a while
 JH>>>  without never really going anywhere, or the sudden surprises that
 JH>>>  were
 JH>>>  foreshadowed as early as the beginning of the episode in question? ;)
 TS>  FG>
 FG>>    Unfortunately, Trek in general (and I say this as a Trek fan, folks)
 FG>> has a tendency to do that. They often introduce elements out of which a
 FG>> decent story arc could be made, then leave them hanging. (For instance,
 FG>> whatever happened to those Puppet Master-like beings that were taking
 FG>> control of Starfleet high command?)

 TS> They were wiped out at the end of the episode (of course),
 TS> which was named "Conspiracy".

 TS> Todd Sullivan

OH? So just who was that long deep space trandsmition aimed at?



-=>Gerry Normandeau-Royal Hangman To His Majesty King Bruno The Questionable<=-

___ Terminate 3.00/Pro
 X TerMail/QWK X The NEW Terminate will -=> FAX <=- almost anything!

--- Maximus 2.01wb
 * Origin: Watership Down BBS, Kanata , ON (1:163/430)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 152 of 152
 From : Gerry Normandeau                    1:163/430       .cê 30 .þí 96 22:07
 To   : Glenn Shaheen
 Subj : cancelled
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
* MOOD: Annoyed :-[

On 24-Jun-96, standing at the gallows pole Jeff Hancock spat a curse on Glenn
Shaheen accusing him of cancelled!

 GS> JH>So do I in general, but Trek just hasn't been satisfying me in that
 GS> JH>regard.  They try sometimes, but ...
 GS>         Well, I like X-Files more than either right now anyway.

 GS> JH>What about 'em?  The Dominion looked like a serious threat when they
 GS> JH>first showed up, but then nothing much happened with them aside from
 GS> JH>popping up every so often for a character exercise.
 GS>         But they're the basic subject of every episode. That I've seen
 GS> lately. Which is one.

 GS> JH>The Cardassians and Klingons have changed somewhat, yes, but it
 GS> doesn't
 GS> JH>seem like things have gone much of anywhere.
 GS>         Cardassians haven't done much lately but the Klingons are a
 GS> different story. I think the best space battle I've ever seen on TV was
 GS> where the 50 or so Klingon ships attacked DS9. Pretty cool.

COOL!? That has got to be the most inepedt battle I have ever seen! For one
thing the Klingons were wining then they send over a bording party armed with
only Batleths!???! That is the stupidest way to take over a station. Also
if you take over a station send in everyone. Not just a losy 100 guys, you send
in every marine from every ship and then you keep sending them until you have
whiped out all resistance. These are supose to be trained and hardened worriors.
Then they pull out because SIX!??!? starships were coming? They outnumber them,
what, 10 to one?
 If the Klingons were in any way handeled in any realistic fashon they woyld
have whiped the feds in less than an hour. And don't point out the fed's
fun little weapon systems. One disrupter blast on each and they would be
rendered inoprative, it's called counterbattery fire and the first thing
done in an invasion is to take out the enemy's defences. Any good warrior
knows this. Don't get me wrong I am totaly pro Klingon. Its this bull that
the wrighters come up with sets my teath grinding.
                      Thus ends my tirade!

-=>Gerry Normandeau-Royal Hangman To His Majesty King Bruno The Questionable<=-

___ Terminate 3.00/Pro
 X TerMail/QWK X The NEW Terminate will -=> FAX <=- almost anything!

--- Maximus 2.01wb
 * Origin: Watership Down BBS, Kanata , ON (1:163/430)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 1 of 441
 From : Leman Russ                          1:2250/7        .cê 30 .þí 96 04:30
 To   : Nicolai Shapero
 Subj : Re: cancelled
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 NS> conference, why did you stay?  It takes WORK, usually, to get banned
 NS> from a conference.

 Not when the moderator is a dick like the B5 one was. And I stayed because I
LIKED the people who didn't feel thatthey had to tear down trek and trekkers to
compensatefor their "audeince envy". Those were OK people, it was the ones who
left messages like >Down with trek",which themoderator allowed, that sucked.

>:[

--- DLG Pro v1.0/DLGMail
 * Origin: Sage's Tower - Amiga - (618) 259-1844 (1:2250/7)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 2 of 441
 From : Leman Russ                          1:2250/7        .cê 30 .þí 96 04:33
 To   : Nicolai Shapero
 Subj : Re: cancelled
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 Sorry, nick, can;t agree with you about the shadows being good duys. They
attackwithout provocation too much, just ask the narn.

 See my message about a chess game. The vorlons and shades probably turn out to
be morally equal.

>:[

--- DLG Pro v1.0/DLGMail
 * Origin: Sage's Tower - Amiga - (618) 259-1844 (1:2250/7)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 3 of 441
 From : Leman Russ                          1:2250/7        .cê 30 .þí 96 04:36
 To   : Bob Klahn
 Subj : Re: OUTER LIMITS
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 Yes, Soldier from the original OL had Micheal Ansara as Quarlo Clobregnny, the
soldier fromthe future.

>:[

--- DLG Pro v1.0/DLGMail
 * Origin: Sage's Tower - Amiga - (618) 259-1844 (1:2250/7)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 4 of 441
 From : Leman Russ                          1:2250/7        .cê 30 .þí 96 04:37
 To   : David Johnston
 Subj : Re: Cancelled
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 DJ> Buthe only reason is metabiological.  The Shadows are parasites who
 DJ> feed best off intelligent creatures.  They aren't even all that
 DJ> advanced, really, but compensate with truly hellacious natural
 DJ> superpowers.

 That arguments makes less sense than reagonomics! The shadows have demonstrated
incredibly advanced techfromtheir ships to the implants they put in Besters
girlfriend.

>:[

--- DLG Pro v1.0/DLGMail
 * Origin: Sage's Tower - Amiga - (618) 259-1844 (1:2250/7)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 5 of 441
 From : Nicolai Shapero                     1:102/524       .îí 01 .þë 96 09:07
 To   : Frank Glover
 Subj : Re: OUTER LIMITS
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Jun 30 14:33>, Frank Glover (1:2613/477) wrote to Bob Klahn:

 FG>intelligence gathering, too. (Also reminiscent of how dogs could
 FG>tell human-looking Terminators from real humans.)

IMNSHO, the Terminator "dogs tell terminators from humans" was undoubtedly
derived from "dogs have betters senses of smell than humans".

-- Nicolai Shapero, the Mad Russian Sysop of StormGate Aerie

--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 6 of 441
 From : Kay Shapero                         1:102/524       .îí 01 .þë 96 12:09
 To   : Jeff Hancock
 Subj : Sabotaging Babylon
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Jun 28 21:33>, Jeff Hancock (1:3600/7) wrote to Kay Shapero:

 JH>Oooooooohhhh, Kay-chan... That was positively *evil*.
 JH>I loved it!

Thank you, thank you...

 JH>Say, maybe that's what DS9 needs, saboteurs of the Deep Space
 JH>project.
 JH>Whatever happened to the first eight, anyway?  <snicker>

That's easy - the first three were blown up by disgruntled Bajorans, the fourth
was taken back in time to Vulcan to help out in the days when the ancestors of
the Romulans split off from those who became the modern day Vulcans, the fifth
was swiped by the Ferengi and is still operating as a giant dabo palace orbiting
their homeworld, the sixth was destroyed by disgruntled Cardassians, the seventh
had the computer achieve full sentience and escaped through the wormhole, to
find a new life as a bookie in the Delta Quadrant.  :->

--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 7 of 441
 From : Kay Shapero                         1:102/524       .îí 01 .þë 96 12:33
 To   : Owen E. Oulton
 Subj : Re: So, How about that Hunchback?
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Jun 30 13:46>, Owen E. Oulton (1:243/45) wrote to Frank Glover:

 OE>What, that the book has an ending which is "not your typical
 OE>Disney happy ending?"  You'll note that Nicolai does not tell us
 OE>how Disney Bowdlerises the ending, just that the book kills
 OE>everyone off.

Er.. Nicolai didn't tell you anything about it - that was Brian Lienhart.

 OE>20,000 Leagues Under The Sea?  Sighted sub, sank same.

OOK!  Snicker...

--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 8 of 441
 From : Frank Glover                        1:2613/477      .îí 01 .þë 96 19:51
 To   : Owen E. Oulton
 Subj : Re: So, How about that Hunchback?
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

OE>   FG>    You might have refrained from telling us that without
OE>  warning, though.
OE>
OE>  What, that the book has an ending which is "not your typical Disney
OE>  happy ending?"  You'll note that Nicolai does not tell us how Disney
OE>  Bowdlerises the ending, just that the book kills everyone off.
OE>
OE>  Gee, what other classic works do you think need spoilers?
OE>
OE>  The Bible?  Jesus returns at the end, tosses all the sinners into
OE>  Hell, and
OE>          all the good guys live happily ever after.
OE>
OE>  20,000 Leagues Under The Sea?  Sighted sub, sank same.
OE>
OE>  History Of The Civil War?  The North won, Lincoln got assassinated.

   Hey, hey, hey! My mistake! I thought you were giving away the end of the
*movie!* I have neither read nor seen any adaptation of `Hunchback...'

   Frank


--- QuickBBS 2.80 GoldBase (Zeta-2.0a)
 * Origin: The Matrix Data Bank BBS, Rochester, Ny (1:2613/477)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 9 of 441
 From : Frank Glover                        1:2613/477      .îí 01 .þë 96 19:54
 To   : Todd Sullivan
 Subj : Re: So, How about that Hunchback?
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

TS>  All you had to do was read the book...
TS>
TS>  Todd Sullivan

   I've neither read nor seen any adaptation of the Hunchback of Notre Dame. No
matter how the film ends, it would be new to me.

   Frank


--- QuickBBS 2.80 GoldBase (Zeta-2.0a)
 * Origin: The Matrix Data Bank BBS, Rochester, Ny (1:2613/477)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 10 of 441
 From : Frank Glover                        1:2613/477      .îí 01 .þë 96 20:24
 To   : Jeff Hancock
 Subj : Re: cancelled
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

JH>  LR>audience! They're all black (Ships and the shadows) and are
JH>  crafted
JH>  LR>to appeal to the phobias inthe human mind.
JH>
JH>  Hmmm..  you know, this could be taken as a racist comment.

   In all fairness, concepts like `black humor,' `black comedy' and the bad guys
wearing black were around long before African-Americans realized that black (as
in skin color) is beautiful....

   Besides. being `in the black' financially was always a good thing.....

   Frank


--- QuickBBS 2.80 GoldBase (Zeta-2.0a)
 * Origin: The Matrix Data Bank BBS, Rochester, Ny (1:2613/477)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 11 of 441
 From : Frank Glover                        1:2613/477      .îí 01 .þë 96 20:31
 To   : Jeff Hancock
 Subj : Re: CANCELLED
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

JH>  BK> In one episode an entire planet was about to be destroyed, an
JH>  entire
JH>  BK>sentient species wiped out, and the Enterprise was prepared to
JH>  stand
JH>
JH>  I don't recall that specific one... Unless it was the one with
JH>  Christopher Lloyd claiming he had come from the future?

   That was Matt Frewer, of Max Headroom fame.

   And interestingly, Piccard asked him for the help of foreknowledge as as to
what to do. Yet (as seen in a later DS9 episode) Starfleet time displacement
rules are very much like the Prime Directive....don't mess with, or change
*anything.*

   Frank


--- QuickBBS 2.80 GoldBase (Zeta-2.0a)
 * Origin: The Matrix Data Bank BBS, Rochester, Ny (1:2613/477)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 12 of 441
 From : Frank Glover                        1:2613/477      .îí 01 .þë 96 20:56
 To   : Bob Klahn
 Subj : Re: THEN AND NOW...
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

BK>   for life as we know it, then you got into the assumptions. They
BK>  guessed the
BK>   likely percentage of stars with planets, etc, going for the low
BK>  figures as
BK>   much as possible. About the last figure considered was the life

   And while we can't say much about *habitable* planets yet, the question of
how many stars have *any* planets is getting better every day. At the very
least, there are lots of Jupiter-like ones out there...

BK>   There is a book, "Marooned in Real Time", which came out sometime
BK>  after my
BK>   astronomy class, which considered this also. The Author gave it a
BK>  few
BK>   hundred years, and at the end said he actually thought it would be
BK>  even
BK>   less, but didn't want to push his credibility. I share, and shared
BK>  his
BK>   thinking. When I came up with my analysis I thought a few hundred
BK>  years, but
BK>   thought that would be pushing the believability. I still think a few
BK>  hundred
BK>   to a thousand. The book postulated the development of a direct
BK>  computer
BK>   connection to the brain as the stimulus for the intellectual
BK>  explosion. If
BK>   that development occurs I will also go for a much shorter time span.

  In the sci.nanotech Usenet newsgroup, Vinge's notion of a technological
`singularity' is bandied about quite a bit, and most who think it likely at all,
see it somewhere in the second half of the 21st century. I'm also inclined to
agree.

   In another echo I once suggested that one possible reason we've as yet found
no obviously intelligent radio signals from space is that there may be some
better form of communication (Modulated gravity waves? Modulated beams of
neutrinos? Tachyons or someother FTL phenomena?) that a race discovers not too
long after it learns to use radio, and so never sends much high-power radio
intentionally into space. This period may be less than two centuries, if we are
at all typical (another assumption). And may currently put us in the position of
the south sea islander using drums for communication across his island, and
would guess that a *big* drum might work for inter island
communication...completely unaware of all the shortwave radio traffic passing
through him as any given moment....

   Post-singularity beings may be a paralell to this. It may be that we won't
find any ET's until we also pass through whatever that condition is. There may
be very few beings currently like ourselves in the technological, but
pre-singularity state at any given moment in the  Universe.

   Frank


--- QuickBBS 2.80 GoldBase (Zeta-2.0a)
 * Origin: The Matrix Data Bank BBS, Rochester, Ny (1:2613/477)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 13 of 441
 From : Tony Sayger                         1:366/205       .cê 30 .þí 96 22:01
 To   : Robert Lidgren
 Subj : Re: Independence Day
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Falcon said this wisdom about Robert Lidgren's post to All
about Independence Day on 06-27-96  05:13:

 RL> I am looking for information on the new film: "Independence Day."
 RL> Does anyone here know of an ftp site or a Web Site devoted to this new
 RL> movie?

www.id4.com, IIRC, but don't hold me to it.

ßàÜÇÔÿ
ïÄßÄï

... don't steal, the government hates competition!!

___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20 [NR]

--- Sunny <HAHA> Florida
 * Origin: Megatropolis BBS ¨Crestview, Fl. 14.4 OS/2! (904)689-002 (1:366/205)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 14 of 441
 From : Lis Carey                           1:101/230       .cê 30 .þí 96 08:30
 To   : Bob Klahn
 Subj : THEN AND NOW...
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
BK> MJ>>> original Star Trek with the ORIGINAL CAST, looking just as they did a
BK> MJ>>> their best in the 60's.  And Paramount won't be alone.)

BK> BK>>  Can you just see the negotiations for the rights to the characters?
BK> BK>> It's one
BK> BK>>  thing to claim the right to the idea of Spok, quite another to use th
BK> BK>> image
BK> BK>>  of Lenord Nemoy in that roll. We're probably talking millions here.

BK> TS> True, but the copyrights are still held by Paramount.  However, Majel
BK> TS> Barret-Roddenberry still has the rights to her late husband's creation.

BK> The copyrights to the characters maybe, but the copyright to Nemoy? I don't
BK> think that would work. They could use the characters as they wish, but I'd
BK> bet they'd have to get permission to use the image of the actors.

They do have to get the permission of the actors - and pay them. The
actors own the rights to the commercial exploitation of their own images
[well, we all own the commercial rights to our own images, but the
actors' are worth more:)]. Those images cannot be used in new works
without the consent of the actors.

BK> BK>>  Can you see the negotiations with the heirs of Abe Lincoln? An old
BK> BK>> photo may be public domain, but the person?

BK> TS> Same thing happened to one of the Vanderbilts.  The name got acquired
BK> TS> into the public domain, just like Trek.

BK> The name, but not the person. Though I do suspect after a lapse of time the
BK> image may be considered public domain.

BK> I wouldn't be surprised to see laws passed about it though.

There's a substantial body of case law. Every living person owns the
rights to the commercial exploitation of their own image [known by the
legal phrase, "right of publicity"]. Historical figures, be they
presidents or Robber Barons of America's Gilded Age, are public domain.

 * OLX 2.1 TD * Desk (n): cat nest, but only if you're working at it.

--- FLAME v1.0
 * Origin: Withouta Net - Drop In Anytime! - 617/846-5416 (1:101/230)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 15 of 441
 From : David Johnston                      1:342/14        .òp 02 .þë 96 01:11
 To   : Brandon Wolgast
 Subj : So, How About That Hunchb
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
-> FG>BL>  Esmerelda has the hots for is no prince either. Since
-> everybody dies FG>BL>  at the end, it's not your typical Disney happy
-> ending.
->
-> FG>   You might have refrained from telling us that without warning,
-> though.
-> Don't worry, thats not the ending, he was lying.

Actually that is the ending of the Hunchback of Notre Dame.  The real
one.

--- PCBoard (R) v15.21/100
 * Origin: Freddy's Place - Edm. AB - 33.6K (403) 413-3460 (1:342/14)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 16 of 441
 From : David Johnston                      1:342/14        .òp 02 .þë 96 01:15
 To   : Bob Klahn
 Subj : Then And Now...
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
-> My reply to that was, given our current rate of development, if
-> things kept up the way they are going now in a thousand years we will
-> develop so far

It seems to me to be unlikely that our current rate of development will
continue indefinitely, if for no other reason that it is only a matter
of a couple of centuries before human society either collapses, or
consolidates into something a little more stable.

--- PCBoard (R) v15.21/100
 * Origin: Freddy's Place - Edm. AB - 33.6K (403) 413-3460 (1:342/14)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 17 of 441
 From : David Johnston                      1:342/14        .òp 02 .þë 96 01:20
 To   : Nicolai Shapero
 Subj : Re: Cancelled
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
-> DJ>I don't agree.  We've had enough of a look at the future to see
-> DJ>that the DJ>Shadows really are the bad guys.
-> No.  The only future views that we've seen to even give that
-> impression boiled down to "the Shadows agents do physical damage to
-> Centauri Prime".

Frankly, I consider their relationship with Molari in the future to be
be more indicative of their nature.  Then, there is what they did to the
Psi-Corps dissident telepaths.  These are not nice people.  They are
distinctly un-nice.

-> DJ>angelic in reality.  After all, they did send Jack the Ripper to
-> DJ>torture DJ>Delenn and whatsisname.
-> Not to torture them, to test them.  Desparate times call for
-> desparate

The test WAS torture.

-> DJ>But the Shadows are clearly inimical to DJ>all DJ>life,
-> everywhere.
-> Oh?  All they've done so far is keep their bargains.  And set OTHERS
-> up to make some big mistakes.

All others.

--- PCBoard (R) v15.21/100
 * Origin: Freddy's Place - Edm. AB - 33.6K (403) 413-3460 (1:342/14)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 18 of 441
 From : David Johnston                      1:342/14        .òp 02 .þë 96 01:21
 To   : Kay Shapero
 Subj : Re: B5 Tech
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
-> I think both sides made some major goofs.  (Think about it - you've
-> landed on an alien planet and you come across an apparently
-> intelligent species you've never met before.  You smile, meaning to
-> indicate friendly intent. Unfortunately, around here, as with almost
-> every mammal on planet Earth but us, showing your teeth is a threat
-> gesture.  The alien reacts

Actually, it is for us as well.  Smiles send the message "I am not
afraid of you or at all worried."

--- PCBoard (R) v15.21/100
 * Origin: Freddy's Place - Edm. AB - 33.6K (403) 413-3460 (1:342/14)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 19 of 441
 From : ROBERT LIDGREN                      1:134/10        .îí 01 .þë 96 19:11
 To   : ALL
 Subj : Independence Day
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
I found the Independence Day Web Site.

It's http://www.id4.com

It has a great deal of background info., movies, a game, cast details,
story boards, stills and clips galore!

Enjoy!

Cheers,

-Rob
--- PCBoard 15.2
 * Origin: 32 lines 40 Gig BBS, Realtime InterNet SLIP (403)247-7900 (1:134/10)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 20 of 441
 From : James Walton                        1:129/260       .îí 01 .þë 96 17:59
 To   : Nicolai Shapero
 Subj : Re: Robert A. Heinlein
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 > At the point where Heinlein was freed from editorial control,
 > IMHO, his  writing rapidly deteriorated.

But you must admit that Heinlein's crap was better than a lot of the best from
some of today's authors.

--- Opus-CBCS 1.73a
 * Origin: ConFluence '96:  Return to Mars! (1:129/260.0)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 21 of 441
 From : Bob Klahn                           1:234/2         .îí 01 .þë 96 11:58
 To   : Jeff Hancock
 Subj : CANCELLED
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
BK>> As long as you mentioned the Prime Directive....

 JH> Whoops, looks like I've stepped in it again.

 Yep. (chuckle)

BK>> I think their use of the prime directive is one of the stupidest
BK>>things they could come up with.

 JH> There is some rationale for that, you know.  Imagine what Napoleon would
 JH> have done if he'd had the atom bomb, or Genghis Khan with semiautomatic
 JH> weapons. (and I'll leave the nit-picking details and arguments to those
 JH> that enjoy them)

 Oh, I understand the need for the Prime Directive, I just think they push it
 too far. The PD should ban any contact with primitive species. Any species
 they maintain contact with should be open for trade, including knowledge.
 Exclude enemy or violent groups from that, not as a matter of morality but
 practicality.

 When a race is facing disaster the PD becomes a bit irrelevant. With total
 extinction I think we can say it is truly moot.

 JH> On the other hand, there is the train of thought that says you can't
 JH> bring something into the world before - or after - society is ready for
 JH> it.  If too soon, then it just won't catch on until people are ready to
 JH> accept it; and there is no too late - when it's time, it'll happen,
 JH> whether anyone likes it or not.

 I don't really accept that. Any species with intelligence approximately that
 of the human race or above could be brought to the level of the human race
 within one generation. As far as knowledge, that is. Infrastructure is
 another thing.

 Yo may not be able to teach them to go from the bow and arrow to the M-16,
 manufacturing them, because of the lack of an industrial base. You can teach
 them to use the M-16 in no time. And you may not be able to pull their
 infrastructure up overnight, but you certainly speed the process up.

 JH> (and I don't plan to argue over that reasoning either)

BK>> In one episode an entire planet was about to be destroyed, an entire
BK>>sentient species wiped out, and the Enterprise was prepared to stand

 JH> I don't recall that specific one... Unless it was the one with
 JH> Christopher Lloyd claiming he had come from the future?

 No, it was the one where Data established communication with the little girl
 on the doomed world.

BK>>by and do nothing. Starfleet is not allowed to interfere with the
BK>>development of any race, even when that development is about to come
BK>>to a screeching, and permanent, halt.

 JH> Perhaps it was a parable to the present, as Trek often is.  Right now

 The Bible is full of parables, ST is not the bible. That is what so many of
 us complain about when we say they are preachy.

 JH> species of animals which have evolved for millions of years to fit
 JH> specific niches are finding those niches disappearing due to man's
 JH> encroachment, carelessness, ignorance, or what-have-you.  Do we go to
 JH> extraordinary lengths to preserve these species and/or niches, or decide
 JH> that if they can't cope with change then that's just too bad for them?

 We try to preserve those enviornments. Used to be we didn't try, but we
 really didn't even understand that they were dieing off. We try to protect
 them so vigorously you can go to prison for killing a bald eagle.

 JH> Of course, on Earth most everything is interconnected to some degree,
 JH> whether anyone realizes what impact a certain species may have on the
 JH> environment or not until it's gone.  Planets don't really matter
 JH> significantly in that sense, what happens on one world isn't going to
 JH> affect another if the race has no space capability.

 True, however, what we do will affect us greatly. And what we fail to do
 also.

 I've often though about an episode, perhaps of "Voyager", where the Voyager
 crew meets a very highly advanced, and powerful alien. He has the capability
 to send them home in an instant, and is willing to do so. Then, just before
 he does, he discovers the Prime Directive. So, he tells them he can't help
 them. His moral code requires him to treat other races as much as possible
 by their own moral codes. Since the Federation has a rule against helping
 less advanced races, no matter how great their need, he can't help the less
 advanced Federation races.

BK>> But of course, as Pickard said, that may be their destiny. Screw
BK>>destiny, do something.

 JH> Another possibility, what sort of morale impact do you think it would
 JH> have on a race if they couldn't even save themselves?  For one, every

 None, they'd all be dead. How would the human race save itself from a large
 asteroid striking Earth? We couldn't. If some other race saved us we might
 have a momentary bit of problem handling it, but we'd get over it.

 JH> time there was a problem they might be begging for help, and once the
 JH> helping hand is extended at what point does it let go?

 At what point does a doctor let go? There are people who become dependent on
 doctors, hypochondriacs, the doctor just has to establish the rules on only
 caring for those who really need his specialized care.

 JH> There are probably a number of other arguments on both sides, but I'm
 JH> too tired to think them out right now. ;)  But just try playing devil's
 JH> advocate for a bit, try to figure possible arguments on both sides, and
 JH> maybe that will provide a better answer.  I'm not supporting or
 JH> condemning the Prime Directive just yet, only theorizing.

 Of course. Just such exchanges help us sharpen our thinking, and hone our
 understanding. Only by questioning our beleifs do we develop them, find
 their weaknesses, and either adjust them or find a new theory to deal with
 the situation.

 That's what makes it fun. When we all agree we all go to sleep.

BOB KLAHN

... Today is a fish I'm gonna throw back. Yesterday was a shark, it ate me.
 * Silver Xpress V4.3P RB10275

--- FLAME v1.1
 * Origin: Telnet toltbbs.com or call 313-854-6001, Boardwatch #55 (1:234/2)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 22 of 441
 From : Bob Klahn                           1:234/2         .îí 01 .þë 96 11:58
 To   : Kay Shapero
 Subj : BRIN'S UPLIFT UNIVERS
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 KS> On <Jun 27 16:57>, Bob Klahn (1:234/2) wrote to Kay Shapero:

 BK>> I hate claims that cite studies that we peons don't have access
 BK>>to.

 KS> Oh, the studies were perfectly accessable - I looked 'em up back when I
 KS> was in college which is how I found *out* about the limited sample.  I
 KS> gather it's died a natural death by this time.

 A lot of studies are available if you know where to look, something that
 people in college often have more access to. I really like to find such
 things on the net. That way I can download them, and have the numbers in a
 file for further crunching.

 BK>> Come to think of it, wasn't that XYY flaw the basis for the Gor
 BK>>world?

 KS> Hanged if I know.  Or, to be quite honest, care.  But at least you DID
 KS> manage to drag it back on topic... :->

 I do believe it was. Of course, if I recall correctly, the real XYY men
 tended to be thin, rather slightly built, with poor social skills and bad
 tempers. According to the reports, that is. In the Gor world they were hyper
 manly, Arnold Schwartzeneggar types.

 KS> But then the original topic was Brin's Uplift Universe, so how d'ya
 KS> like that series?

 I don't recall if I've even seen it. By now I'd forgotten how we got here
 anyway.

BOB KLAHN

... I prefer to remain anomalous.
 * Silver Xpress V4.3P RB10275

--- FLAME v1.1
 * Origin: Telnet toltbbs.com or call 313-854-6001, Boardwatch #55 (1:234/2)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 23 of 441
 From : Bob Klahn                           1:234/2         .îí 01 .þë 96 11:58
 To   : Frank Glover
 Subj : OUTER LIMITS
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 FG>
BK>>   I remember the "Glass Hand" episode, but not " Soldier". Could you
BK>>  give me a
BK>>   *very* brief synopsis to jog my memory? I think I may recall it, but
BK>>  I'm not
BK>>   sure. The one I'm thinking of had Michael Ansara as a warrior from
BK>>  the
BK>>   future.
 FG>
 FG>    That's the one. A 20th century family befriends him, as one of the
 FG>    opposing soldiers from the future war is looking for him. I think

 Ok, I am thinking of the right one. I'm not sure how "Terminator" was all
 that close to it. That is, other than the fact that a lot of SF is close to
 a lot of what went before. You can't really blame somebody for using what is
 current understanding of the principles of physics even if it comes out the
 same.

 OK, may misuse of the principles of physics would be a better term.

 The idea of someone going back in time to change the past, even killing
 someone back there, is an old one in SF. I don't think the OL invented it.

 FG>    they used some kind of psychic bond with cats for intelligence

 Yes, I remember that too. I remember Ansara trying to talk to the cat.

 FG>    gathering, too. (Also reminiscent of how dogs could tell
 FG>    human-looking Terminators from real humans.)

 I thought that was by smell, just as a dog can identify a stranger.

 FG>    Outer Limits episodes are commercially available at the larger video
 FG>    stores. I don't have it, but I know `Soldier' is among them.

 Those store videos tend to be so expensive, though.

BOB KLAHN

... ...I am Pentium of Borg: Prepare to be approximated...
 * Silver Xpress V4.3P RB10275

--- FLAME v1.1
 * Origin: Telnet toltbbs.com or call 313-854-6001, Boardwatch #55 (1:234/2)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 24 of 441
 From : Bob Klahn                           1:234/2         .îí 01 .þë 96 11:58
 To   : Lis Carey
 Subj : B5 RENEWED
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 LC> This is really rather pointlessly unfriendly of you. I don't like
 LC> SEINFELD, which makes me downright unAmerican, as far as I can tell, and
 LC> I do get tired of people raving about it - but I don't go around wishing
 LC> it would get cancelled; I just don't watch it.

 Hmmm.. and I was beginning to think I was the only one.

 OTOH, I'm still in shock over SAAB. If B5 went I'd really be down.

 Even though I do watch the ST stuff, and it's not as bad as some people,
 myself sometimes included, intimate, it's not as good as B5. But even those
 who think ST is the ultimate should appreciate haveing *some* SF that isn't
 ST related on TV.

BOB KLAHN

... Benign: What you are after you be eight.
 * Silver Xpress V4.3P RB10275

--- FLAME v1.1
 * Origin: Telnet toltbbs.com or call 313-854-6001, Boardwatch #55 (1:234/2)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 25 of 441
 From : Bob Klahn                           1:234/2         .îí 01 .þë 96 11:58
 To   : Jeff Hancock
 Subj : SABOTAGING BABYLON
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 JH> Say, maybe that's what DS9 needs, saboteurs of the Deep Space project.
 JH> Whatever happened to the first eight, anyway?  <snicker>
 JH> -=-

 DS-9 was a Cardassian post. Maybe the first 8 got blown up in the war.

 Yeah, I get the joke you intended, just tossed in my comment.

BOB KLAHN

... "Gravity is the absence of levitation."  --Dr. Dimension
 * Silver Xpress V4.3P RB10275

--- FLAME v1.1
 * Origin: Telnet toltbbs.com or call 313-854-6001, Boardwatch #55 (1:234/2)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 26 of 441
 From : Eric Fishbein                       1:322/360       .òp 02 .þë 96 22:11
 To   : Nicolai Shapero
 Subj : SLIDERS ACTUALLY DECENT!
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 > Actually, I thought it indicated that the show was going to go VERY
 > much downhill next season.  "Oh, we can't just explore different
 > possible worlds, we've got to have BAD GUYS chasing them from world
 > to world..."
 >
 > Feh!
 >
 > If those "kromags" existed and kept expanding, they'd eventually run
 > in to a far more technologically advanced world (occupied by other
 > kromags or by homo sapiens) and they'd get their heads handed to
 > them.  You don't conquer an infinite number of worlds in finite
 > time...

        Lighten up, it's just a TV show.  I think the idea of another race
evolving on an alternate Earth is a good idea to explore.  Of course, since
there are theoretically an infinate number of Earths, it's possible the Kromags
haven't as of yet discovered a superior intellect than their own.  But as we saw
in this episode, Quinn and the idea of Humans sliding scared them greatly.
        And who's to say time passes the same way universe to universe?

--- FLAME v1.0/b
 * Origin: Add TSX-BBS, The Swiss Army Knife For TBBS! 508.429.8385 (1:322/360)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 27 of 441
 From : Bill Hedrick                        1:282/26        .òp 02 .þë 96 11:58
 To   : Glenn Shaheen
 Subj : Re: B5 Renewed
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
In a message dated 06-26-96 GLENN SHAHEEN wrote to TODD SULLIVAN:

TS>Forget it, Jeff.  Like many other Trekkies, his mind's made up, and
TS>nothi
TS>you say can change it.  Jimmy Dixon would like this guy.

 GS>         See? Stereotype b5 freak who has nothing better to do than
 GS> trash Trek and its fans blindly. In fact, weren't you the same person
 GS> who was trashing Voyager blindly too?

hee! Glenn, Todd's so much a Trek fan that he's a Klingon.....

 -> Alice4Mac 2.4 E QWK Eval:22Mar96

--- RA 1.11+/GEcho 1.02+
 * Origin: Sci-Fi BBS * Rosemount, MN * HST/DS * (612)423-7358 (1:282/26)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 28 of 441
 From : Bob Klahn                           1:234/2         .òp 02 .þë 96 22:47
 To   : Frank Swarbrick
 Subj : CANCELLED
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 BK>> sentient species wiped out, and the Enterprise was prepared to stand
 BK>> by and do nothing. Starfleet is not allowed to interfere with the
 BK>> development of any race, even when that development is about to come
 BK>> to a screeching, and permanent, halt.

 BK>> But of course, as Pickard said, that may be their destiny. Screw
 BK>> destiny, do something.

 FS> How absolutely true.  And the real problem is, I don't think that the
 FS> Prime Directive is inherantly wrong.  It's just that Picard's
 FS> interpretation of it was way off base!  The PD is there so we don't
 FS> give less developed races advanced technology that they may perhaps
 FS> misuse and then destroy themselves (or others).  But helping an entire
 FS> planet to survive, come on, what could be wrong with that?  No one
 FS> said that they had to give them any advanced technology or anything.
 FS> Just help them survive so they could continue to develop!

 FS> I hate the theme of that episode soooo much!

 Ok, now that we have that settled, let me move on to the next part. Do you
 recall what happened to the little girl at the end? She was brought aboard
 the Enterprise, and they had a choice as to whether to keep her aboard, that
 is she would disappear as far as her world was concerned, or send her back
 and risk contamination. They chose to wipe her memory of what she
 experienced aboard the Enterprise.

 As far as I am concerned wiping her memory was the greater crime. The child
 did not ask for it, and was a minor to begin with. To me interferring with
 the person's mind is a greater crime than contamination of their culture, or
 killing the person.

 That was also what happened to Worf's brother if you recall. They wiped his
 memory to keep him from killing himself. Sorry, they are trying to tell us
 the "body" is the "person". I consider the mind much more the person. If you
 kill the mind you have killed the person, so why not let the body die? It's
 not like there's a shortage of live bodies walking around. As someone once
 said, they are turned out by unskilled labor who truly enjoy the work.

BOB KLAHN

... Our mission - To boldly split infinitives no one has split before.
 * Silver Xpress V4.3P RB10275

--- FLAME v1.1
 * Origin: Telnet toltbbs.com or call 313-854-6001, Boardwatch #55 (1:234/2)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 29 of 441
 From : Barney Muldoon                      1:123/38        .òp 02 .þë 96 20:09
 To   : David Johnston
 Subj : B5 Bs
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE 1.11+
While sipping a dry martini, David Johnston told Todd Sullivan about B5 Bs...

 DJ> Plan, intend, what's the diff?  The reason why the Mimbari were so
 DJ> genocidally angry is clear though.  They are a dying, diminishing
 DJ> race. The death of each Mimbari takes them that much closer to
 DJ> oblivion.

 The reason isn't that clear. Their reasoning is that, when Dukhat was
 killed, they went nuts on a racial level; every Minbari wanted blood.
 This doesn't sound too strange to me; I've seen it on a large scale
 myself. When the bomb went off in Oklahoma City, there were screams of
 outrage from all over the country; we wanted the bomber's head on a
 plate. When Kennedy was killed, we wasted no time finding the killer.

 The Minbari are not a dying race, any more so than humanity. Check out
 the reposted messages from JMS if you don't believe me.

 And, guys, note the spelling. Every time I see it spelled "Mimbarri", I
 get this really sharp pain right here...


... You've been dying since the day you were born.
--- GEcho 1.11+
 * Origin: The Music Room, Memphis TN  (901) 452-2134 (1:123/38)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 30 of 441
 From : Henry Triplett                      1:106/564       .òp 02 .þë 96 10:13
 To   : GERRY NORMANDEAU
 Subj : DS9-WOTW
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

-=> Quoting Gerry Normandeau to Glenn Shaheen <=-

 GS>         Cardassians haven't done much lately but the Klingons are a
 GS> different story. I think the best space battle I've ever seen on TV was
 GS> where the 50 or so Klingon ships attacked DS9. Pretty cool.

 GN> COOL!? That has got to be the most inepedt battle I have ever seen!

Amen, bruddah.  AMEN!!

                <snip>

 GN> If the Klingons were in any way handeled in any realistic fashon they
 GN> woyld  have whiped the feds in less than an hour. And don't point out

You could devote an entire echo to discussing how poor the Klingon battle
strategies were in this episode.  I especially noticed how some (many) of
the Klingon ships couldn't be bothered to waste energy by actually *firing*
at the station as they flew by.  Ditto for maneuvering!

And I guess they were chowing down on gagh or something while the Defiant
was docking with DS9 and Sisko and friends were making their way to their
stations.  It seems like that would have been a good time to be shooting at
either the Defiant and/or DS9.

 GN> defences. Any good warrior knows this. Don't get me wrong I am totaly
 GN> pro Klingon. Its this bull that the wrighters come up with sets my
 GN> teath grinding. Thus ends my tirade!

As a Trek/Klingon fan from way back, I agree.  But you ended (your tirade)
way too soon.

Henry



... "Bugs, Mr. Rico!  Millions of Bugs!"

___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20 [NR]
--- GEcho 1.00
 * Origin: Eat Flaming Death    Houston Texas    713-447-1927 (1:106/564)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 31 of 441
 From : Henry Triplett                      1:106/564       .òp 02 .þë 96 23:32
 To   : GLENN SHAHEEN
 Subj : CGI vs Models
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

-=> Quoting Glenn Shaheen to Jeff Hancock <=-

 GS> And since I don't watch B5 much, I was basing my opinion
 GS> of their CGI on Space: Above and Beyond, whose CGI jes plain sucks.

Bad move, B5's CGI is at the cutting edge of the technology and far above
SAAB, IMHO.  The B5 FX crew are well down the learning curve and the improve-
ments are very noticeable, even within a season.  Not only that, but the
B5 crew is using CGI for a lot of 'everyday' items in the show, not just
space FX.  As a result, they have gotten *very* good.

 JH>In fact, some of that "perfectness" may be part of what you don't get.
 JH>In space, with no atmosphere to scatter the light, shadows are sharp and
 JH>clear, not scattered with an uneven boundary, so something with
 JH>ruler-straight defined areas of light and dark is going to look
 JH>"unreal"... but that's how it looks in space.
 GS> Ohhhh. And you've been in space. There is space dust, however,
 GS> which would scatter the light.

I doubt if he's been into space, but that is irrelevant.  NASA has huge
numbers of photos which back up his point.  Space dust is *extremely*
rarified.

 JH>It's still a model, with the limitations that entails.
 GS> And your computer graphics are still computer graphics, with
 GS> the limitations that entail.

And those limitations are far fewer that working with models.  CGI is
limited by the ability/imagination of the user, and the limitations of the
computer hardware.  Models are limited by physical laws of nature.  A
model _cannot_ behave like the full-sized object it represents.  A good
example of this is in DS9's "Way of the Warrior."  A Klingon cruiser gets
plastered by a photon barrage and the rear of the ship drops and dangles
*straight down* for a moment before a flash of light removes it from view.
I can't imagine that happening to a ship in zero G.  Also, you end up seeing
a lot of ships blow up with a 'sparkler' effect to keep them from looking...
well, looking like a model blowing up.

The limitations of models can be reduced, but not elimated by using fairly
large models (ie. the surface of the Death Star).  This however, is a very
expensive proposition and not a viable solution for a TV program.

Using models for FX in this day and age makes as much sense as sticking
with "Buck Rodgers" era FX after "Star Wars" came out.  Unless you're trying
make an artistic statement, CGI is the current state of the art and the
only way to go.  Heck, even ST:Voyager is using a good deal of CGI these
days.

Henry

... "You feel you've been symbolically cast..in a bad light." - Ivanova

___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20 [NR]
--- GEcho 1.00
 * Origin: Eat Flaming Death    Houston Texas    713-447-1927 (1:106/564)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 32 of 441
 From : Jared Callanan                      1:324/127       .cê 30 .þí 96 21:09
 To   : Glenn Shaheen
 Subj : B5 renewed
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE 1.11+
* In a message originally sent to Todd Sullivan, Glenn Shaheen stated:

GS> TS>Them's the breaks.  For the longest time Paramount's been able to allow
GS> l
GS> TS>grade material to be foisted off on an unsuspecting public, and the
GS> viewe
GS> TS>bought into that nonsense.  It's about time the tables were turned,
GS> IMO,
GS> TS>and I've watched all of Trek's renditions from 1965 onwards.  I *know*
GS> TS>there's been a loss of quality, and it /wasn't/ in the effects
GS> department

GS>         See? No comparisons, just Trek sucks, b5 rules.
GS> There's been
GS> no loss. Maybe you're looking for a good dukes up fist
GS> fight? Is that
GS> what's lost? Well, sometimes shows can be more intellectual,
GS> with
GS> deeper meanings and messages than "They're gonna attack the
GS> Earth with
GS> some conspiracy and sabotage the babylon project." I'm not
GS> for all that
GS> 50s serial style show razmataz. Maybe the makers of b5 can't
GS> come up
GS> with multiple good ideas so to compensate for their lack of
GS> creativeness
GS> they make one big "super" storyline. That's my rambling
GS> JUSTIFIED
GS> opinion. I did like the pilot though.
GS> -=-
GS>  * OLX 2.2 * "I'll pay off that customs official", said Tom
GS> dutifully.

GS> --- SLMAIL v3.5C  (#1540)
GS>  * Origin: Robotech þ Lake City's Music*Demo BBS þ [904]
GS> 758*9477 (1:3600/7)

 I thought trek was better then B5, But I thought they both stunk compared to
Kindred:The Embraced. I am going to start a Petition to try to get Fox the renew
the show, I think we got a pretty good chance since Foc renewed Sliders because
of request!
Thanks,
Jared Callanan

---
 * Origin: (1:324/127)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 33 of 441
 From : Jared Callanan                      1:324/127       .cê 30 .þí 96 21:11
 To   : Bob Klahn
 Subj : SPACE:  ABOVE AND BEY
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE 1.11+
* In a message originally sent to Frank Swarbrick, Bob Klahn stated:

BK> DG>> Yeah,  It is only "pretty good" in my opinion.  I still think that
BK> DG>> Space Above and Beyond was one of the best Sci Fi shows out there!

BK> FS> Hmm, I would say just the opposite.  I find SAAB to be "pretty good"
BK> FS> and B5 to be *the* best show (SF or otherwise) out there.

BK>  I find both to be excellent.

BK> BOB KLAHN

BK> ... A dirty mind is a terrible thing to waste.
BK>  * Silver Xpress V4.3P RB10275

BK> --- FLAME v1.1
BK>  * Origin: Telnet toltbbs.com or call 313-854-6001,
BK> Boardwatch #55 (1:234/2)

 Yeah I like both. To bad Fox is not going to renew Space above and beyond but
theres always the sci fi channel.
Thanks,
Jared

---
 * Origin: (1:324/127)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 34 of 441
 From : Jared Callanan                      1:324/127       .cê 30 .þí 96 21:15
 To   : Robert Parson
 Subj : RE: PINKY AND THE BRAIN
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE 1.11+
* In a message originally sent to Robin Johnson, Robert Parson stated:

RP> ROBIN had a few words to say about Re: PINKY AND THE BRAIN

RP> RP>> better check fast, since P/B is soon to be history.
RP> RJ>
RP> RJ>  You mean we will be losing them??? Why? What happened. I love
RP> watching
RP> RJ>  them...they're hilarious...

RP> Apparently you and I were the only ones watching.  They're
RP> goners, but I
RP> imagine they'll be hacking the episodes up and including
RP> them with
RP> Animaniacs.


RP> ... Narf!
RP>  * Silver Xpress V4.3 SW23473

RP> --- QScan/PCB v1.19b / 01-0162
RP>  * Origin: Jackalope Junction 501-785-5381 Ft Smith AR
RP> (1:3822/1)

 Pinky in the brain got cancelled? When? I love that show! Those Bastards at Wb!
Who knows with cartoons like that. They might be back..
Thanks,
Jared Callanan

---
 * Origin: (1:324/127)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 35 of 441
 From : Jared Callanan                      1:324/127       .cê 30 .þí 96 21:19
 To   : Frank Glover
 Subj : Re: cancelled
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE 1.11+
* In a message originally sent to Jeff Hancock, Frank Glover stated:

FG>
FG> JH>  Long storylines, you say?  Damn, I'd sure love to see 'em.  Oh, you
FG> JH>  mean
FG> JH>  the background plot elements that get kicked around once in a while
FG> JH>  without never really going anywhere, or the sudden surprises that
FG> JH>  were
FG> JH>  foreshadowed as early as the beginning of the episode in question? ;)
FG>
FG>    Unfortunately, Trek in general (and I say this as a Trek
FG> fan, folks) has a tendency to do that. They often introduce
FG> elements out of which a decent story arc could be made, then
FG> leave them hanging. (For instance, whatever happened to
FG> those Puppet Master-like beings that were taking control of
FG> Starfleet high command?)
FG>
FG>    Frank
FG>

FG> --- QuickBBS 2.80 GoldBase (Zeta-2.0a)
FG>  * Origin: The Matrix Data Bank BBS, Rochester, Ny
FG> (1:2613/477)

 Trek has been cancelled but I would exspect it back, because there are so many
trek fan out there Upn And the local station must just get tons of letter every
day! So by popular demand I would expect trek back.
Thanks,
Jared

---
 * Origin: (1:324/127)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 36 of 441
 From : Jared Callanan                      1:324/127       .cê 30 .þí 96 21:32
 To   : All
 Subj : Kindred:The Embraced
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE 1.11+
 Hello, This year I think we gained a awesome up and coming Sci-fi Show then
lost it. That show was Kindred:The Embraced. I loved the show and was personally
very mad when it was cancelled. To me and my friends the show was a sci-fi
dream! It was awesome. Well now me and a bunch of internet people have decided
to fight back! And wright as many letters to the Fox network as we can. We did
this by putting a Kindred website online! Now more then 800 people have written
letters to the fox network from the website. But sadly the website went down:(
But we have not given up hope. In a few days I will come back on with Phone
Numbers,E-mail address,and others where you can send in a letter requesting
Kindred be put back on. Some come on and help ous put Kindred: The Embraced back
on the air.
Thank YOu,
Jared Callanan

---
 * Origin: (1:324/127)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 37 of 441
 From : Jared Callanan                      1:324/127       .îí 01 .þë 96 18:03
 To   : All
 Subj : Saving Kindred
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE 1.11+
 I wrote a message saying I would give a address on how to save kindred and here
it is:
 Rupert Murdoch
 Po Box 900
 Becerly Hill ca
 90213
Bill Covney
Po Box 900
Beverly hill ca
90213
John Maotonian
Po box 900
Beverly hill ca,
90213
 Write to any of these, or if you realy want to save the show write to all
three! We should be able to save the show in no time!
Thanks,
Jared Callanan

---
 * Origin: (1:324/127)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 38 of 441
 From : Henry Triplett                      1:106/564       .pä 03 .þë 96 08:53
 To   : KAY SHAPERO
 Subj : Sabotaging Babylon
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

-=> Quoting Kay Shapero to Jeff Hancock <=-

 JH>Say, maybe that's what DS9 needs, saboteurs of the Deep Space
 JH>project.
 JH>Whatever happened to the first eight, anyway?  <snicker>

 KS> That's easy - the first three were blown up by disgruntled Bajorans,

        <snip>

 KS> was destroyed by disgruntled  Cardassians, the seventh had the computer
 KS> achieve full sentience and escaped  through the wormhole, to find a new
 KS> life as a bookie in the Delta Quadrant.   :->

Hmmm. So what happened to the eighth station?  Don't keep us in suspense,
TELL US!!!

Henry

... If it's a tie at the RR crossing, you lose. - Operation Lifesaver

___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20 [NR]
--- GEcho 1.00
 * Origin: Eat Flaming Death    Houston Texas    713-447-1927 (1:106/564)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 39 of 441
 From : Ken Mayes                           1:393/7         .òp 02 .þë 96 10:10
 To   : Frank Glover
 Subj : Re: So, How about that Hunchback?
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On Mon  1-Jul-1996  7:54p, Frank Glover said to Todd Sullivan:

FG>    I've neither read nor seen any adaptation of the Hunchback of Notre
FG> Dame. No matter how the film ends, it would be new to me.


        I'd recommend that you skip the movie which completely rips the original
story to shreds and read the original book or one of the many fairly acurate
live-action adaptations of the story that have been filmed over the last eighty
years. You'll catch a lot more flavor of the original from them then you EVER
could from Disney's version.

        Somebody stop Disney before they adapt Schindler's List to an animated
musical!



:)


--- CNet/3
 * Origin: The Bard's Tavern Denton, TX (817)243-5110 USR 28.8   (1:393/7)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 40 of 441
 From : Nicolai Shapero                     1:102/524       .òp 02 .þë 96 09:36
 To   : Bob Klahn
 Subj : CANCELLED
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Jun 30 13:52>, Bob Klahn (1:234/2) wrote to Nicolai Shapero:

 BK> What I notice about the Shadow ships is their resemblence to the
 BK>Vorlon
 BK> ships. Both have the tentacle appendages. Either they have
 BK>developed similar
 BK> technology, and the form is driven by the technology, or their
 BK>is some
 BK> connection.

The Shadows and the Vorlons are two sides of the same coin (if not the same side
of the same coin).  That's MY guess (and it would explain the disgust that the
superbeings around Sigma 957 felt towards the Vorlons).

 BK> How about, the Shadows are not an elder race at all, but a
 BK>servant race
 BK> developed by the Vorlons who developed their independence long
 BK>ago, and now
 BK> seek to enslave where they were slaves.

Nope.  It's been stated that the Shadows are older than the First Ones.  And the
Vorlons are one of the few remaining First Ones in the local neighborhood.

Oh, JMS has apparently said (I'm getting this second hand at best) that if they
don't renew for a fifth season (they've renewed for the fourth) he WILL wrap up
the loose ends in season four.  I hope he makes it to the fifth season and
closes the arc in a (relatively speaking) unhurried fashion, but it's nice to
know that he's keeping his options open.

-- Nicolai Shapero, the Mad Russian Sysop of StormGate Aerie

--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 41 of 441
 From : Nicolai Shapero                     1:102/524       .òp 02 .þë 96 09:41
 To   : Jeff Lutkus
 Subj : Sliders Actually Decent!
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Jun 30 22:30>, Jeff Lutkus (1:141/1114) wrote to Eric Fishbein:

 JL>major change.  There should be more earths where something
 JL>happened 2000 years or 9000000000 years ago that make things
 JL>really weird :)

Yes, there has been at least one episode like that (OTHER than Invasion).  The
one where they found a dinosaur preserve in the SFBay area.  That's a change
that goes 65 million years back or so.

But there are technical problems with doing that sort of thing.  Special effects
cost a LOT of money.  And money you spend on SFX is money that you don't have to
spend on other things...like scripts and decent actors.  I DO hope they drop the
stupid invasion/kromag theme quickly next season, and just do nice interesting
stories.

(The universal translator effect is a necessary component to keep the story
going -- of course, they could always stumble on a world where the languages are
all different, and they get to spend the entire show stumbling around looking
more stupid than usual, but that would likely be a VERY boring episode...)

-- Nicolai Shapero, the Mad Russian Sysop of StormGate Aerie

--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 42 of 441
 From : Nicolai Shapero                     1:102/524       .òp 02 .þë 96 09:45
 To   : Todd Sullivan
 Subj : Outer LImits
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Jun 30 17:11>, Todd Sullivan (1:202/720.3) wrote to Nicolai Shapero:

 TS>We've still got two(?) seasons to go.  It's still possible.
 TS>Harlan can't have "literary constipation" forever....

Harlan's had a pretty good case of writers block for the last ten years or so.
It could easily go on for another year (all that would be necessary, really, to
kill much chance of DEMON ON THE RUN).  It WOULD be nice to see Robert Culp
reprising his TRENT role, but he's likely gotten just a wee bit long in the
tooth for it to be believable (TRENT wasn't supposed to age, you see...)

-- Nicolai Shapero, the Mad Russian Sysop of StormGate Aerie

--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 43 of 441
 From : Nicolai Shapero                     1:102/524       .òp 02 .þë 96 09:47
 To   : Glenn Shaheen
 Subj : cancelled
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Jun 29 17:49>, Glenn Shaheen (1:3600/7) wrote to Jeff Hancock:

JH>In fact, some of that "perfectness" may be part of what you don't get.
JH>In space, with no atmosphere to scatter the light, shadows are sharp and
JH>clear, not scattered with an uneven boundary, so something with
JH>ruler-straight defined areas of light and dark is going to look
JH>"unreal"... but that's how it looks in space.
 GS>        Ohhhh. And you've been in space. There is space dust,
 GS>however,
 GS>which would scatter the light.

No, he's seen all the pictures taken by real astronauts.  And there's not enough
"dust" up there to scatter light.  Take up physics.

JH>It's still a model, with the limitations that entails.
 GS>        And your computer graphics are still computer graphics,
 GS>with
 GS>the limitations that entail.

Yup.  Like costing far less than models.  As I understand it, the cost for one
episode of ST:Voyager is about eight or ten times the cost for one episode of
Babylon 5.  And the principal difference in cost is due to SFX.  Computer
animation, once you get past the initial investment (which isn't all THAT great)
is significantly less expensive than models.

-- Nicolai Shapero, the Mad Russian Sysop of StormGate Aerie

--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 44 of 441
 From : Kay Shapero                         1:102/524       .òp 02 .þë 96 10:52
 To   : Glenn Shaheen
 Subj : cancelled
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Jun 29 17:49>, Glenn Shaheen (1:3600/7) wrote to Jeff Hancock:

 GS>        And since I don't watch B5 much, I was basing my opinion
 GS>of their CGI on Space: Above and Beyond, whose CGI jes plain
 GS>sucks.

Fascinating.  Did you ever hear the story of the man who was crawling about on
the ground under a street lamp, one night?  Another man came along after a bit,
and asked him what was wrong and he said he was looking for his car keys.  So
the second man helped him look.  After awhile of fruitless search, the second
man asked "Are you sure you lost them around here?"

The first man replied "No, I lost them down the street", pointing in the
direction of a dark alley.

"Then why are you looking here?" asked the second man.

"Because the light's better here." replied the first...

--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 45 of 441
 From : Lis Carey                           1:101/230       .îí 01 .þë 96 07:57
 To   : Mark Jones
 Subj : THEN AND NOW...
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
MJ> BK> Can you just see the negotiations for the rights to the
MJ> BK> characters? It's one thing to claim the right to the idea of
MJ> BK> Spok, quite another to use the image of Lenord Nemoy in that
MJ> BK> roll. We're probably talking millions here.

MJ>   It's already going on, to some extent.  After all, plastic figures
MJ>bearing the likenesses of the actors from Trek (and other movies and
MJ>television series) are manufactured now.  I don't know if the actors
MJ>get any money for that--almost certainly Shatner and company don't,
MJ>since it wasn't anticipated when they signed on originally--but if not
MJ>now, then soon it *will* be a contract point.

Shatner & Co. don't get any more royalties for rebroadcast of the
original episodes, BUT - use of their images in new products, including
the dolls, require their consent, and therefore payments to them.

The contracts that gave Paramount the right to use their images had
already run out by the time the commercial Trek market started to take
off, so Paramount's rights under the old contract for other uses of the
actors' images in those roles were gone, and they had to start from
scratch.

MJ>   And I seem to recall hearing that many contracts nowadays have
MJ>clauses reserving electronic reproduction rights, even those which
MJ>don't exist to be exploited yet.  A really sharp actor (or actor's
MJ>agent) is going to make himself (or his client) very, very rich
MJ>someday soon by making sure the actor gets royalties for the use of
MJ>his likeness regardless of whether he is involved in the actual
MJ>creation of the film in question.

Yes, they've gotten much more savvy about possible technological
innovations and the commercial value thereof.:)

MJ> BK> Can you see the negotiations with the heirs of Abe Lincoln? An
MJ> BK> old photo may be public domain, but the person?

MJ>   I expect that copyright or trademark law will be extended to this
MJ>realm.  You're probably right--public domain rules will probably apply
MJ>to the likenesses of individuals from the past, but contemporary
MJ>actors and actresses will have to be paid for the use of their
MJ>likenesses in film.  (Though by the time that law becomes settled, the
MJ>movie studios will probably be generating artificial stars from
MJ>scratch--or from composites of real people.  It could bring back the
MJ>"star system" of the 30's and 40's, when studies owned stables of
MJ>stars under exclusive contract.)

REMAKE, by Connie Willis. Nominated for the Best Novel Hugo this year.:)


 * OLX 2.1 TD * God said "Let there be cats!" and was promptly ignored.

--- FLAME v1.0
 * Origin: Withouta Net - Drop In Anytime! - 617/846-5416 (1:101/230)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 46 of 441
 From : Lis Carey                           1:101/230       .îí 01 .þë 96 20:20
 To   : Jeff Hancock
 Subj : CANCELLED
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
JH>GS>JH>B5 turned its back and seceded on a corrupt Earth Alliance.  I'd call
JH>GS>JH>that a significant change.
JH>GS>        And you don't see the Klingon thing as signifigant? One of
JH>GS>the major surprises of TNG was the Klingons being good. Now they

JH>Not too significant.  For one thing, that's why - they were bad, then
JH>they were good, now they've reverted to type.  Not too unexpected, but
JH>at the same time not specifically foreshadowed, if Klingon/Federation
JH>differences had been building up for some time then it would be a little
JH>more believable.  (not that one incident won't do the job sometimes)

They've been gradually building up the tensions between the Federation
and the Klingon Empire all this season, and part of last season. There
_wasn't_ just the one incident when DS9 was actually attacked; that just
happened to be the only one you noticed.

JH>Funny how they only attacked DS9 though, and haven't really attacked
JH>since.

The Klingons haven't been primarily interested in starting a war with
the Federation; they had long-standing tensions with the Cardassians,
and no treaty with them as they had with the Federation. When the
Cardassians and the Romulans were badly weakened by the attack on the
Dominion that the Founders manipulated them into, the Klingons decided
that it was time to settle some old scores and gain some new territory.

The Klingons felt _betrayed_ when their ally, the Federation, opposed
their plans and gave aid to the Cardassians - or so Gowron claimed.
Except that now we know that Gowron is actually a Changeling...I'd look
for further developments, here. Including a possible reason why TPTB
didn't actually kill off Kurn.:)

The Changelings' plan all along has been to manipulate the major powers
of Alpha Quadrant into destroying themselves, at minimal trouble and
expense to the Changelings. And there's been _lots_ of foreshadowing of
_that_.

I'm not saying you should like DS9 at all, much less like it better than
B5; I agree that B5 has a greater depth and greater texture of reality.
But some of your criticisms of DS9 just aren't factually accurate, and
they certainly aren't fair to this most textured, dark, and complex of
all the Trek series.

 * OLX 2.1 TD * Backup not found: (A)bort (R)etry (P)anic

--- FLAME v1.0
 * Origin: Withouta Net - Drop In Anytime! - 617/846-5416 (1:101/230)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 47 of 441
 From : Todd Sullivan                       1:202/720.3     .òp 02 .þë 96 17:25
 To   : Glenn Shaheen
 Subj : Put up or shut up.
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Reports from the Interior indicate that Glenn Shaheen leaked the following to
Jeff Hancock, re: cancelled

 JH>> It's still a model, with the limitations that entails.
 GS>         And your computer graphics are still computer graphics, with
 GS> the limitations that entail.

All right, I'll pick up the gauntlet.

Since you seem to be an expert, let's hear those limitations.

In other words, I'm calling your bluff.

Todd Sullivan

... A bad random number generator:  1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 4.33e+67, 1, 1, 1

-*- ASTG 1.9

--- Spot 1.3a Unregistered
 * Origin: Todd's Spot in the Continuum (1:202/720.3)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 48 of 441
 From : Todd Sullivan                       1:202/720.3     .òp 02 .þë 96 17:27
 To   : Frank Glover
 Subj : So, How about that Hunchback?
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Reports from the Interior indicate that Frank Glover leaked the following to
Owen E. Oulton, re: So, How about that Hunchback?

 FG>    Hey, hey, hey! My mistake! I thought you were giving away the end of
 FG> the *movie!* I have neither read nor seen any adaptation of
 FG> `Hunchback...'
 FG>

I've seen one I thought did well.  A made-for-TV video movie in the mid-to-late
70s.  Definitely showed who was who...

Todd Sullivan

... "Some of us live in perpetual 20-20 chaos." --Opus

-*- ASTG 1.9

--- Spot 1.3a Unregistered
 * Origin: Todd's Spot in the Continuum (1:202/720.3)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 49 of 441
 From : Jeff Hancock                        1:3600/7        .îí 01 .þë 96 19:48
 To   : Glenn Shaheen
 Subj : cancelled
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

GS>JH>Funny how they only attacked DS9 though, and haven't really attacked
GS>JH>since.
GS>        Yeah, I kinda wondered about that. Isn't that an act of war?

Yes, but the Federation doesn't MAKE war. <g> "Attack our bases, blow up
our starships, what do WE care; can't we all just get along?"

I am being sarcastic here, in case some literal-minded spoilsport plans
to use this as the basis for an attack.  But the Feds are definitely not
the type to go on the offensive unless forced to... some counterexamples
will undoubtedly come to mind to those reading, but in general, why
AREN'T they actively making war on the Klingons, or the Dominion, or
trying to go hunt down the Borg, eh?

GS>        And since I don't watch B5 much, I was basing my opinion
GS>of their CGI on Space: Above and Beyond, whose CGI jes plain sucks.

Okay, well, to use your logic, I think Trek's F/X totally sucks.  Of
course I'm basing that opinion on Doctor Who's graphics, but so what?

Never got into S:AAB myself, but their F/X seemed nice enough to me.
The whole series was too dark and moody for my taste, though, and the
combat sequences frequently seemed too terrestial.

GS>JH>"unreal"... but that's how it looks in space.
GS>        Ohhhh. And you've been in space. There is space dust,

Your argument is that "Trek looks real".  So are you saying you've been
to the 24th Century in the Trek Universe to see for yourself?  Same
logic.

GS>however, which would scatter the light.

Space is not completely empty; but the "dust" you speak of is generally
of a very low density.  You usually only have to worry about it when
travelling at great velocities (you or it)... it's not going to "cloud
up" the light in most cases.

Next time you get some video from the Shuttle, watch the stars.  They
don't twinkle.  It's the atmosphere you have to look through to see them
from earth that causes them to twinkle.

GS>JH>It's still a model, with the limitations that entails.
GS>        And your computer graphics are still computer graphics, with
GS>the limitations that entail.

Now you're simply parroting.  But, okay, we'll play it that way.
Plastic is plastic.  It ain't changing all that much.  Computers now,
they evolve every single day.  Each year gives you a huge leap in
processing power, memory capacity, and so forth... CGI and models both
take a good deal of work to design.  But once they're designed, you can
do just about anything you like with the CGI, show it from any angle,
blow it up, damage it, make whole fleets of it, etc.  Models... it takes
extensive work to film it, and you have to build extra models to blow up
or damage it.

There have been shots on B5 which are absolutely *impossible* to do with
a model, including ships rotating through 360 degrees, with a model
there would be no place to suspend or mount the darn thing where it
wouldn't show up on camera.

-=-
 * Crazy-J * He's a model employee. Unfortunately not a working model.

--- SLMAIL v3.5C  (#1540)
 * Origin: Robotech þ Lake City's Music*Demo BBS þ [904] 758*9477 (1:3600/7)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 50 of 441
 From : Jeff Hancock                        1:3600/7        .îí 01 .þë 96 19:53
 To   : Glenn Shaheen
 Subj : cancelled
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

GS>        Well, I'm sure there is two-way stealing of ideas. B5
GS>probably copies from DS9 just as much.

JMS has much better sources to borrow from. ;)

Besides, as he's more or less said in the past, you think he's going to
go to that much damned trouble just to do someone else's story?

On top of that, by his own admission, he hardly watches Trek, or much
else.  Writing and producing B5 alone takes twenty-six hours of his time
a day. (he has a math problem ;)

GS>JH>They could see what was likely to happen as much as any of the
GS>        But they might not have copied.

Sure, it's all coincidence.  Delenn becomes mostly human, Odo becomes
human, just a coincidence.  The Narn and Cardassians fall, both Earths
declare martial law, the Defiant and the White Star, Sinclair and Sisko
both being viewed as religious icons by alien races which are both major
supporters of the stations, blah blah blah.  Just coincidence.  Uh huh.
-=-
 * Crazy-J * "I don't condone violence.  I just pay for it on TV."

--- SLMAIL v3.5C  (#1540)
 * Origin: Robotech þ Lake City's Music*Demo BBS þ [904] 758*9477 (1:3600/7)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 51 of 441
 From : Jeff Hancock                        1:3600/7        .îí 01 .þë 96 19:59
 To   : Lis Carey
 Subj : CANCELLED
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

LC>Yes, as a matter of fact, we did semi-regularly see Klingons on or
LC>passing through the station, and there was a Klingon restaurant on
LC>the Promenade.

Huh.  Must not have been paying attention.  Will be watching in
retrospect.

LC>JH>So the Federation has another race as their enemy that wasn't much
LC>These are significant changes, especially from the viewpoint of the
LC>Starfleet personnel assigned to Deep Space Nine. Before, they were there
LC>chiefly to show the flag. Now, they're sitting on the front lines of two
LC>wars, which have just been revealed to be the same war - and it's about
LC>to heat up.

Then let's hope it really does; seeing how it has mostly been a
non-event for some time.  A few highlights, but mostly inactive, unless
it's just that I don't care enough to notice. ;)  Watch, forget...

And even now... The Klingons are supposed to be hostile, yet they don't
actively go to war after one attack on the station, and even now when
things heat up it's not really a Klingon leading the charge.

LC>JH>GS>JH>Gul Dukat's no G'kar, that's for sure.
LC>JH>In some ways they are similar characters, they even look vaguely
LC>JH>similar.
LC>They look similar? Perhaps - to people who didn't snicker when JMS

I said vaguely, and I meant as in reptilian-looking.

LC>claimed that the commander of DSN [Ben Sisko] had the same initials
LC>as the commanders of B5 [Jeffrey Sinclair and John Sheridan].

I have no idea of what you're trying to say with this.

LC>Neither coloring nor skin texture is remotely similar.

If you say so.

LC>JH>except G'kar has evolved over all three seasons and Gul Dukat only
LC>JH>took one major turn that I remember, when his government fell
LC>You haven't been paying attention. Gul Dukat was carefully and
LC>gradually developed over three seasons before they had the Klingons

But was he developed as being anything other than an incredibly devious
and wily snake in the grass?

LC>kick the stuffing out of the Cardassian Empire, and OTOH, while the
LC>biggest changes in Dukat's character have come in his reaction to
LC>this disaster, this is ALSO true of G'Kar, who has undergone major
LC>changes as a result of being forced to deal with the disaster of his
LC>homeworld being conquered by the Centauri.

Except G'kar had to go through some major changes before that, trying to
convince others of the Shadow threat, and then later with the war.  I'm
probably forgetting, but it seems like the whole Cardissian fall
happened in practically one or two episodes, unlike the nearly
season-long conversion of G'kar (from Chrysalis to The Long, Twilight
Struggle).
-=-
 * Crazy-J * I stand by all the misstatements that I've made.-D.Quayle

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Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 52 of 441
 From : Glenn Shaheen                       1:3600/7        .îí 01 .þë 96 18:28
 To   : Lis Carey
 Subj : B5 RENEWED
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

LC>Glenn, if it stays on the air, no one is going to force you to watch it.
LC>OTOH, if it gets cancelled, those of us who enjoy it will be _unable_ to
LC>watch it.

sorry.
-=-
 * OLX 2.2 * Kervorkian Suicide Machine: The quicker putter downer.

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Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 53 of 441
 From : Jeff Hancock                        1:3600/7        .òp 02 .þë 96 18:00
 To   : David Johnston
 Subj : Cancelled
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

DJ>-> BK> In one episode an entire planet was about to be destroyed, an
DJ>Two such episodes come to mind, the one where Data started
DJ>communicating with the little girl on the doomed planet, and the one

Slipped my mind so far.

DJ>where Worf's brother bullied them into saving some of the sentients.

Think I remember that one.

DJ>-> extraordinary lengths to preserve these species and/or niches, or
DJ>->decide that if they can't cope with change then that's just too bad
DJ>We do actually go to some substantial lengths to preserve at least
DJ>some of these endangered creatures.

I know, but not without a lot of squabbling.  And the question is a
legitimate one... at what point do we decide enough is enough?

And sometimes humans aren't even responsible for the niche vanishing,
and you have the one side wanting to do anything possible to save it,
and the other saying let them go.  And most of the rest say fine, but
don't use *our* tax dollars to do it with.

Of course they'd change their tune in a fraction of an instant if they
found a way to *exploit* said species, and there have been a few cases
where endangered plants or animals have had great scientific value in
medicinal or other researches, but that doesn't really answer the
question.

And the question is off-topic anyway, so never mind.  But at least Trek
is restating and sparking the argument, even if it's on the side of "To
hell with them if they can't cope on their own".  At least they're not
exploiting them, anyway.
-=-
 * Crazy-J * CAT.COM started.  Computer will furball in five seconds.

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Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 54 of 441
 From : Jeff Hancock                        1:3600/7        .pä 03 .þë 96 12:21
 To   : Bob Klahn
 Subj : CANCELLED
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

BK> JH> On the other hand, there is the train of thought that says you
BK> JH>can't bring something into the world before - or after - society
BK> I don't really accept that. Any species with intelligence
BK>approximately that of the human race or above could be brought to the
BK>level of the human race within one generation. As far as knowledge,
BK>that is. Infrastructure is another thing.

I was trying to speak sociologically...  Whenever something new is
introduced, some will embrace it, others -frequently a majority, it
seems- will fear it.  If it offers a significant improvement with low
risk, then it's likely to get adapted quicker, but there will always be
the neo-Luddites against it.

Of course, the military mindset would take better weapons as quickly as
they could get them, but... even in TOS you had Bones hating the
transporter, and that was relatively proven technology by that time.
(no, not perfect... it never is. ;)

You can't change the world overnight, unless you've got the capability
to brainwash the population, or eliminate the naysayers.  If you can
offer high gain with minimal risk and not make everyone suspicious of
getting suckered, then you might do it.  Otherwise...

BK> JH> (and I don't plan to argue over that reasoning either)

<sigh>  One never plans....

BK> JH> Perhaps it was a parable to the present, as Trek often is.
BK> The Bible is full of parables, ST is not the bible. That is what so
BK>many of us complain about when we say they are preachy.

Very many shows restate problems of the present by casting them in the
future.  Even B5 does this.  Fortunately SF usually avoids the "Very
Special Episode" syndrome.

BK> We try to preserve those enviornments. Used to be we didn't try, but
BK>we really didn't even understand that they were dieing off. We try to

Some of us try.  Remember the Spotted Owl issue?  Disinformation on both
sides.  If it truly comes down to "them or us" it's one thing, but
usually it's more like "too much trouble and money for us to help them",
and ultimately it comes down to what a species is "worth", and what
terms that comes in.  To some, any life is precious beyond value (never
mind that survival of the fittest and killing for survival is a basic
natural trait), to others, it's only worth what you can exploit it for.

BK>them so vigorously you can go to prison for killing a bald eagle.

I hope it discriminates between the purposeful and accidental as well as
the shades in between.

BK> I've often though about an episode, perhaps of "Voyager", where the
BK>Voyager crew meets a very highly advanced, and powerful alien. He has
BK>the capability to send them home in an instant, and is willing to do
BK>so. Then, just before he does, he discovers the Prime Directive. So,
BK>he tells them he can't help them. His moral code requires him to
BK>treat other races as much as possible by their own moral codes. Since
BK>the Federation has a rule against helping less advanced races, no
BK>matter how great their need, he can't help the less advanced
BK>Federation races.

I think they had something similiar to this... The one race had
developed highly advanced transporter technology capable of jumping
light years, but Janeway ends up using the PD to keep from using it.
The conflict was in the Marquis and, I think, some Feds who disobeyed
and tried to gain the transporter tech themselves.  But I can't remember
the PD argument used in not accepting the technology.

I think it was a trade-for-trade, the transporter for the entire library
of Voyager... and Janeway copped out.

BK> JH> Another possibility, what sort of morale impact do you think it
BK> JH>would have on a race if they couldn't even save themselves?  For
BK> None, they'd all be dead. How would the human race save itself from

You know what I meant.

BK>a large asteroid striking Earth? We couldn't. If some other race
BK>saved us we might have a momentary bit of problem handling it, but
BK>we'd get over it.

Sure, we'd be grateful at first, but also resentful, angry that we had
to be helped and couldn't do it ourselves.  Or at least some would feel
that way.

BK> That's what makes it fun. When we all agree we all go to sleep.

I could use a nap right now. ;)

-=-
 * Crazy-J * "Why isn't there any traffic in the AMISH echo?"

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Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 55 of 441
 From : Jeff Hancock                        1:3600/7        .pä 03 .þë 96 12:26
 To   : Frank Glover
 Subj : cancelled
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

FG>JH>  LR>audience! They're all black (Ships and the shadows) and are
FG>JH>  LR>crafted to appeal to the phobias inthe human mind.
FG>JH>  Hmmm..  you know, this could be taken as a racist comment.
FG>   In all fairness, concepts like `black humor,' `black comedy' and

I appreciate "black humor", in that sense, many however do not.
The worse off for them, but that's how it is.

FG>the bad guys wearing black were around long before African-Americans
FG>realized that black (as in skin color) is beautiful....

Black, shadows, and the like are pretty much phobias, as he said; I just
thought his insistence and belief in this specific example being so
could be taken the wrong way.

Seems I'm reminded of a test with two sports teams, both with a roughly
even amount of nonsportsmanlike conduct among certain members, but
polling of nonaligned fans revealed that they thought the team with
primarily black uniforms played "dirty" and were less sportsmanlike.
Old prejudice.

FG>   Besides. being `in the black' financially was always a good

Heh.  True... but how do you think the Native Indian-Americans (or
whatever they're calling themselves this week) feel about the reverse?
;)
-=-
 * Crazy-J * Girls in tiny sailor suits mooning everybody?!?!

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Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 56 of 441
 From : Jeff Hancock                        1:3600/7        .pä 03 .þë 96 12:30
 To   : Bob Klahn
 Subj : SABOTAGING BABYLON
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

BK> JH> Say, maybe that's what DS9 needs, saboteurs of the Deep Space
BK> JH>project. Whatever happened to the first eight, anyway?  <snicker>
BK> DS-9 was a Cardassian post. Maybe the first 8 got blown up in the

Actually I was under the impression that there were eight more in
various positions on the border, that that was just the ninth post that
was a fair distance from the Federation border.  Although it seems
rather ludicrous that there would be only nine by that time.

Of course, Deep Space 437 just doesn't have the same ring to it.
-=-
 * Crazy-J * "We're going far away where your cooking won't hurt us."

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Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 57 of 441
 From : Jeff Hancock                        1:3600/7        .pä 03 .þë 96 12:31
 To   : Kay Shapero
 Subj : Sabotaging Babylon
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

KS> JH>Oooooooohhhh, Kay-chan... That was positively *evil*.
KS>Thank you, thank you...

The fun never stops, does it?

KS> JH>Whatever happened to the first eight, anyway?  <snicker>
KS>That's easy - the first three were blown up by disgruntled Bajorans,

<groan....>

KS>sixth was destroyed by disgruntled Cardassians, the seventh had the

Give me a disgruntled postal worker any day.

-=-
 * Crazy-J * To hell w/the Prime Directive, give the Borg the HoloDoc!

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Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 58 of 441
 From : Glenn Shaheen                       1:3600/7        .òp 02 .þë 96 14:26
 To   : Jeff Hancock
 Subj : cancelled
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

JH>I am being sarcastic here, in case some literal-minded spoilsport plans
JH>to use this as the basis for an attack.  But the Feds are definitely not
JH>the type to go on the offensive unless forced to... some counterexamples
JH>will undoubtedly come to mind to those reading, but in general, why
JH>AREN'T they actively making war on the Klingons, or the Dominion, or
JH>trying to go hunt down the Borg, eh?

        Why didn't the USSR go to war with the US when that U2 spyplane
incident happened?

JH>Your argument is that "Trek looks real".  So are you saying you've been
JH>to the 24th Century in the Trek Universe to see for yourself?  Same
JH>logic.

        It looks more real than B5 to me.


JH>Space is not completely empty; but the "dust" you speak of is generally
JH>of a very low density.  You usually only have to worry about it when
JH>travelling at great velocities (you or it)... it's not going to "cloud
JH>up" the light in most cases.

        Now it isn't that dense, but what about near a space station
where skirmishes happen frequently and it is used alot? There'd be a lot
more dust than there is now.

JH>Now you're simply parroting.  But, okay, we'll play it that way.
JH>Plastic is plastic.  It ain't changing all that much.  Computers now,
JH>they evolve every single day.  Each year gives you a huge leap in
JH>processing power, memory capacity, and so forth... CGI and models both
JH>take a good deal of work to design.  But once they're designed, you can
JH>do just about anything you like with the CGI, show it from any angle,
JH>blow it up, damage it, make whole fleets of it, etc.  Models... it takes
JH>extensive work to film it, and you have to build extra models to blow up
JH>or damage it.

        Yes. With your logic the flying saucers from Plan 9 From Outer
Space look like the flying saucers from Independence Day.

JH>There have been shots on B5 which are absolutely *impossible* to do with
JH>a model, including ships rotating through 360 degrees, with a model
JH>there would be no place to suspend or mount the darn thing where it
JH>wouldn't show up on camera.

        But you can take the suspension out with... um... computers.
-=-
 * OLX 2.2 * "This space-time doohickie makes the coolest noises!"

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Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 59 of 441
 From : Michael Harper                      1:123/38        .pä 03 .þë 96 17:57
 To   : Bob Klahn
 Subj : B5 RENEWED
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE 1.11+
While sipping a dry martini, Bob Klahn told Lis Carey about B5 RENEWED...

 LC> This is really rather pointlessly unfriendly of you. I don't like
 LC> SEINFELD, which makes me downright unAmerican, as far as I can tell, and
 LC> I do get tired of people raving about it - but I don't go around wishing
 LC> it would get cancelled; I just don't watch it.

 BK> Hmmm.. and I was beginning to think I was the only one.

 Hey, I can take or leave Seinfeld. There are usually better things to
 watch. Although Julia Louis-Dreyfus is a serious babe, the rest of the
 show doesn't really interest me.

 BK> OTOH, I'm still in shock over SAAB. If B5 went I'd really be down.

 I missed the season finale. Has Fox pulled the plug?

 BK> Even though I do watch the ST stuff, and it's not as bad as some
 BK> people, myself sometimes included, intimate, it's not as good as B5.
 BK> But even those who think ST is the ultimate should appreciate haveing
 BK> *some* SF that isn't ST related on TV.

 The problem, insofar as I can tell, is one of tunnelvision. The real
 diehard Trekkies feel threatened by B5; it infringes on their turf, and
 they're just immature enough to think that their franchise is the
 be-all and end-all in television skiffy. Those of us who watch all of
 it and keep an open mind are the true Trekkers. Hell, JMS and the rest
 of the B5 crew watch Trek in all its incarnations, and vice versa. When
 Trek does a really good episode, B5 calls and compliments them. Trek
 does the same thing. JMS and Jeri Taylor are good friends, as are most
 of the people on both shows.

 The problem is the studios. Paramount will attack anything that
 threatens its cash cow. Warner really doesn't know what they've got in
 B5; they think that it doesn't have a big following because it competes
 with Trek. But we pestiferous fans don't care about the studios or
 their bottom lines, until they start to make noises about cancellation.
 Perverse creatures that we are, we watch both shows, something that no
 doubt drives them nuts. ;)

 BK> ... Benign: What you are after you be eight.

 Nice tag, Bob. Think I'll steal it...


... If Gene Roddenberry were still alive, he'd be writing for B5!
--- GEcho 1.11+
 * Origin: The Music Room, Memphis TN  (901) 452-2134 (1:123/38)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 60 of 441
 From : Brandon Wolgast                     1:363/281       .îí 01 .þë 96 13:21
 To   : Leman Russ
 Subj : Minbari and B5
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE/32 1.2

LR> KS> I think Delenn h it about right when she said that the Minbari had
LR> KS> all gone mad together, and recovered from the madness just in time.

LR> Sorry, kid, but "temporary insanity" is no excuse for genocide, especially
LR>a racial scale over several years. Ifthe mimbs want to be respected and reve
LR>for the age andnd development than they'd better act like a mature race inst
LR>of a bunch of psychoes who go off at theslightest provocation.

It's Minbari, not Mimbari, there is an N not an M in there.  And to YOU
and other HUMANS genocide is not "okay" yet we're talking OTHER races,
not just other humans, or cultures on earth, but totally different
worlds, people act differently.  And as for the war, we (as in humans)
killed their leader and a ton of others on the ships that were destroyed
at first contact. And as for having their gunports opened, did you know
that in the days of sailing in wooden ships that is exactly what
happened a lot of the time? Yup, right here on earth a boat would
approach another with it's cannons sticking out as a "sign of respect."
And many times it did lead to a war (not a huge war but a war
nonethelss) and if not a war at least the sinking of one of the ships at
the meeting.  And if the Minbari are dying out little by little with
their belief of the migration of souls (which after "Chrysalis" is now
over with) then they cannot really afford to lose anyone can they? And I
doubt ALL Minbari felt that way, but the Warrior Caste was leading
almost all of the attacks and doing the fighting and usually a "warrior"
in any race or show cannot stand to lose a fight or ever wants to stop.
The Religious and Worker castes seems pretty content now over what
happened, just not the warrior caste, which I believe will be a problem
soon...

LR> BTW, have the mimbs ever accecpted any responsibility for coming inwith the
LR>weapons exposed? They mostly still seemto blame sherridan and throw fits
LR>whenever he shows up, like the crew on the tregatti, the captain of the ship
LR>sent to get it, andthe ones framing him for murder.

Throw fits? Hrmp.. again, only the warrior caste, the others seem to
except what happened. I'm sure there ARE ones out there that hate him
and there always will be.  If the leader of our country with a crap load
of others were all on lets say an aircraft carrier and crusing around
and some enemy planted seamines or something and blew them up I'm sure
there would be hundres of thousands of people that would be enraged and
would never ever forget.

LR> I'd like to see something on B5: a human who's loved one was murdered by yh
LR>minbs during the war and who still hates them over it. Ifthe mimbs werewrong
LR>do what they did then can you blamethe guy for still hating them? What ifhe
LR>important and you had to convince himto help, even if it meant working witht
LR>mimbs, who he hates?

Get a spell checker or watch what you type more carefully.  As for what
you just said, perhaps again you missed, "And Now For A Word," and
"GROPOS," they seemed to deal with humans that have not forgotton about
their loved ones.

LR> That could be an interesting plot. I know they had the "homeguard" long ago
LR>and they wererednecks who hated all aliens, but I'm talking about someone wh
LR>onlyhates the boneheads, with personal reason.

Again, "And Now For A Word," and "GROPOS."

LR> I would like to seethe mimbs takesome responsibility for the war, andt ep
LR>witjh "king arthur" came close, but not quite onthe money. It still dealt wi
LR>the fact a human fired firstand not the fact the mimbs took provocative acti

You don't seem to understand, it is not provcative to THEM. We are
dealing with another race, I'm sure each race has it a different way and
I can say for sure that I doubt the Minbari since then have changed a
thing about first contact.  Like it or not we did fire first and we did
start the war, David (Arthur) said it best with, "I didn't know... we
didn't know."

LR> BTW, I just discovered YAB51: The humans bought hyperdrive fromthe centauri
LR>and the centauri knew the mimbari. Why didn;t the cents tell humans about th
LR>mimbari and their idiotic custom of charging at new races with weapons ready
LR>>:[

Perhaps the Centauri did tell Earth about the Minbari and that is why
the meeting was set up.  Maybe the Centauri thought humans would smart
enough to realize a sign of respect and not stupid enough to fire when
we saw it. Perhaps when the Minbari met the Centauri, Narn, Draazi,
Vorlons, Brekeri, etc., they didn't have a single problem with their
gunports being opened, perhaps the other races were not stupid enough to
fire on them and realized it was a sign of respect.

Brandon
***
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--- Use the FORCE!!!
 * Origin: Feduberator * STAR WARS Support * (407)381-2798 (1:363/281)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 61 of 441
 From : Mark Jones                          1:105/302.47    .åò 27 .þí 96 22:34
 To   : Nicolai Shapero
 Subj : Robert A. Heinlein
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On (24 Jun 96) Nicolai Shapero wrote to Lawrence E Dunlap...

 NS> I think that Heinlein's own success killed his writing. Before
 NS> TIME ENOUGH FOR LOVE and I WILL FEAR NO EVIL, Heinlein wasn't
 NS> enough of a "name" to be able to safely ignore the editor
 NS> assigned to his projects at any publisher. But, I suspect,
 NS> starting with these two novels, Heinlein had enough "throw
 NS> weight" to ignore the editors.
 NS>
 NS> At the point where Heinlein was freed from editorial control,
 NS> IMHO, his writing rapidly deteriorated.

   This tends to happen with a lot of writers.  They become big enough
to ignore their editors--and they do.  Their books get bigger and
bigger, sloppier and sloppier.  (Sort of like Microsoft code....)
   Stephen King could use someone with a heavier blue pencil, too.

   (However, an editor in New York making $30,000 a year--if he's a
*big name* editor--who insists on editing the BIG NAME AUTHOR and
annoys him into changing publishers isn't going to be popular with his
bosses....  So the big name writers can ignore their editors with
impunity.)


--- PPoint 1.78
 * Origin: Folcroft Sanitarium (hsmith@cure.com) (1:105/302.47)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 62 of 441
 From : Mark Jones                          1:105/302.47    .åò 27 .þí 96 22:44
 To   : Bob Klahn
 Subj : THEN AND NOW...
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On (25 Jun 96) Bob Klahn wrote to Frank Glover...

 BK> Do you think some computer programmer will decide he's just had
 BK> enough of Shatner's speach affectations, and reprogram him to
 BK> actually speak like a normal human being?

 BK> Will Sulu still be captain of his own starship, or will he go
 BK> back to the bridge of the Enterprise.

 BK> Can't you just see a revival of live theatre based on people
 BK> getting a thrill out of seeing actual, live, human beings in
 BK> performance?

Yes, yes, yes, yes and yes.  Don't forget fan-fic.  Morphing effects
that once required ILM-level budgets to achieve are now within the
reach of home computer hobbyists.

Within a few years of the Hollywood's use of digital actors, you'll se
home-made *fan-fic* films, just like you can now find written fan-fic.
 So, any version of Trek you want will be available somewhere...or you
can do your own.


--- PPoint 1.78
 * Origin: Folcroft Sanitarium (hsmith@cure.com) (1:105/302.47)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 63 of 441
 From : Mark Jones                          1:105/302.47    .óá 29 .þí 96 14:04
 To   : Brion Lienhart
 Subj : The sf channel
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On (26 Jun 96) Brion Lienhart wrote to Charles Daniels...

 BL> Congress didn't require any such thing. The FCC requires stations
 BL> to broadcast a certain amount of educational content during the
 BL> hours when children supposedly watch TV. The producers and
 BL> stations came up with the idea that if they stuck in some sort of
 BL> moral message and educational content they could claim that G.I.
 BL> Joe was educational and met that requirement. For some unknown
 BL> reason the FCC bought into it.

 BL> "In this episode, we learn the COBRA is bad, and G.I. Joe is
 BL> good."

  As long as the government is going to make paternalistic and
unconstitutional demands, I'll cheer the tv industry on as they
exploit loopholes like that one.  TV and radio are "the press" as
surely as newspapers and magazines are, and should be free of
government content control just as certainly.  (The notion that the
broadcast spectrum is limited and therefore, somehow, too important to
be left to the market like newspapers and magazines, is--well, crap.
It always was, and its especially bogus given the increases in
technology that have made it possible to use far more channels than
ever before.)

The notion that anyone can start a newspaper or magazine (albeit on a
shoestring) but that the same isn't true of broadcast media is true
only because the government WON'T LET YOU start one.  Ham (i.e.,
amateur) radio has been around as long as commercial radio.  It can be
done.

--- PPoint 1.78
 * Origin: Folcroft Sanitarium (hsmith@cure.com) (1:105/302.47)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 64 of 441
 From : Mark Jones                          1:105/302.47    .óá 29 .þí 96 14:14
 To   : Bob Klahn
 Subj : CANCELLED
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On (26 Jun 96) Bob Klahn wrote to Jeff Hancock...

 BK> I think their use of the prime directive is one of the stupidest
 BK> things they could come up with.

Amen, brother.

 BK> In one episode an entire planet was about to be destroyed, an
 BK> entire sentient species wiped out, and the Enterprise was
 BK> prepared to stand by and do nothing. Starfleet is not allowed to
 BK> interfere with the development of any race, even when that
 BK> development is about to come to a screeching, and permanent,
 BK> halt.

 BK> But of course, as Pickard said, that may be their destiny. Screw
 BK> destiny, do something.

Talk about a callous, bureaucratic adherence to rules and regulations!
 Picard and company made the FDA or IRS look like nurturing caregivers
by comparison.  Too bad about those aliens--but we can't interfere, it
would be wrong.  I liked it very much that Worf's half-brother said
all the things that needed to be said (though they painted him very
clearly as the villain, and WRONG (tm) to do what he did).

The PD is too broadly worded.  IF you're going to have such a thing, a
vague and absolute dictum like that is useless.  Better (if you must
do anything) to have a set of rules about HOW (and when and where and
to what extent) you may interact with planet-bound cultures.


--- PPoint 1.78
 * Origin: Folcroft Sanitarium (hsmith@cure.com) (1:105/302.47)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 65 of 441
 From : Mark Jones                          1:105/302.47    .óá 29 .þí 96 14:22
 To   : Roy Stevens
 Subj : THEN AND NOW...
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On (26 Jun 96) Roy Stevens wrote to Mark Jones...

 MJ> And its only going to get more amazing. (I predict that within 10
 MJ> years, Paramount Studios will be producing *new* episodes of the
 MJ> original Star Trek with the ORIGINAL CAST, looking just as they
 MJ> did at their best in the 60's. And Paramount won't be alone.)
 RS>
 RS> Ack!!! Just goes to show that improvements in technology doesn't
 RS> necessarily mean improvements in society. Please please please
 RS> leave the original Star Trek alone. I like it just the way it is.

   I think it would be great!  They wouldn't have to alter the
original episodes--they'd simply be able to do *additional*
original-series episodes with stories written by today's writers (and
I hope some of today's best SF writers, just like they did in the 60's
with Theodore Sturgeon and Harlan Ellison and others).

 RS> But to bring this back to the original subject (stagnation of
 RS> techology in B5), why hasn't Earth tech evolved more in the next
 RS> 264 years? The only thing I've really seen them do that we
 RS> couldn't do now is the Stargates -- and humans got the idea from
 RS> aliens first. The rest of their high tech environment is simply a
 RS> matter of riches.

   For the same reason the technology in Star Trek hasn't advanced
significantly.  (Ever notice that aside from faster ships and faster
transporter effects, the technology hasn't changed a bit from TOS to
Voyager?)
   Gene Roddenberry said it best in THE MAKING OF STAR TREK.  Star
Trek is not about 23rd century man.  It is about 20th century man in
the 23rd century.  Just like High Noon was not about an 1880's
American--it was about a 1960s American in 1880s America.  Television
is a mass-audience medium--and most of the audience won't accept
heroes who are truly radically different.  Therefore, the heroes
almost always display contemporary attitudes no matter what era or
culture they nominally inhabit.  (This is not verbatim, but it's the
gist of what Roddenberry said.)

   The real 2200s will probably be so different from what we know
today that it would be incomprehensible to us.  A future culture with
nifty energy handguns, space travel and humanoid aliens, and humans
recognizably similar to the audience in their values, beliefs and
attitudes is probably appallingly inaccurate--but watchable.
   WRITTEN SF tends to delve more seriously into what future cultures
might be like.  And even there, most novels are closer to Bab5 or Trek
in their portrayals of future societies than to any likely reality.
Only a minority of SF novels *really* go for no-holds-barred
best-attempt realism.  And these tend to be the "literary" novels that
are well-received critically, but may or may not be truly popular.

   Consider how an 18th century American would see the late 20th
century.  Sure, the USA still exists, and still elects congressmen and
Presidents.  But hte government is grotesquely swollen, bureaucrats
really run things, and the entire continent has been urbanized.  We've
gone from muskets and cannon to nuclear-powered carriers, ICBMs and
the threat of global extinction.  Many common diseases of his time
have been eradicated or controlled; others have cropped up to replace
them.  Slavery is dead; women and minorities have the vote.  Racism,
sexism, and just about any -ism you can name is socially unacceptable.
   Men have walked on the moon.
   You can reach any place on the earth's surface in less than a day
(with enough money and determination).  You can WATCH an assassination
on the other side of the planet AS IT HAPPENS via satellite
communications.
   And...possibly most radical of all, we grow up EXPECTING things to
continue changing faster and faster, indefinitely.  You and I *know*
that our children (or grandchildren) will live in a world radically
different from the one we grew up in (which is very different from the
one we inhabit now).  Throughout most of history, an individual's or
family's *fortunes* might change, but very little else would.
Certainly there was no expectation of constantly advancing technical
change.

   Wild-eyed, balls-to-the-wall cyberpunk is probably more likely to
resemble the real future than Bab5 or Trek.  But most viewers would be
unable (or unwilling) to figure out what they were doing.  (Sort of
like the reaction of most folks to the ending of 2001....)


--- PPoint 1.78
 * Origin: Folcroft Sanitarium (hsmith@cure.com) (1:105/302.47)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 66 of 441
 From : Darre LuAllen                       1:3637/1        .pä 03 .þë 96 10:30
 To   : All
 Subj : Genre Music + ID4 verdic
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Greetings and salavations,
     I realize I'm late to hop on this train, but I have just recently
discovered a new band with a strong grounding in SF/F.  As I don't know if
music is off-topic here, I'll keep this short.
     The name of the band is Glass Hammer.  For those of you who have
heard of them, then you know this.  Their first album was wholly inspired
by the _Lord of the Rings_.  Their second album is not a conceptual affair,
but it does have some good stuff on it.  They have also formed several
splinter groups, such as a band called Wizards.
     Their style is Progressive Rock, very similar in aspect to bands
like Jethro Tull, Yes and Renaissance.  They play very few live shows,
one of which is Dragon*Con.  A couple of their members have also recorded
an album called "The Lair of the Wurm" which is touted as a "Soundtrack
to Roleplaying".  The music, IMHO, is really good for just that.
     Anyway, I'll hush.  Don't consider this advertising so much as a rave
for a group by a new fan.  If I've gone off topic, I appologize.  I just
thought an album about LOTR should be mentioned.

     In an attempt to make sure I'm on topic, just saw _ID4_ last night.
My verdict:  GO SEE THIS MOVIE!  Nitpickers might not like it, but I grew
up on re-runs of the 50's invasion movies.  I loved _ID4_.  I think a lot
of people will also.  As far as movies go, it isn't perfect.  However, it
is pretty good.

                                           Darre LuAllen
                                           Reeling in the Intoxication
                                           of a Mostly Happy Life
___
 * OFFLINE 1.56 * Save the whales.  Collect the whole set.


--- Maximus/2 3.01
 * Origin: Cumberland BBS -TN- V34 (1:3637/1)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 67 of 441
 From : Bob Klahn                           1:234/2         .pä 03 .þë 96 17:30
 To   : Owen E. Oulton
 Subj : THEN AND NOW...
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 OEO> If, on the other tentacle, Paramount wanted to do Star Trek, The
 OEO> Original Series: The New Adventures, they would likely have to pay a
 OEO> licensing fee to the estates of any of the actors not alive at the
 OEO> time and to any actors still alive.  Further, any of the actors still
 OEO> living at the time of the filming could quite legally prevent their
 OEO> image from being used and altered beyond certain limits (probably
 OEO> still to be determined).

 I started reading this with the intention of challenging some of your
 interpretation. By the time I got to the end I saw you seem to have analyzed
 the various possibilities much the same as I did. IOW, correctly.

 I do believe you have gotten it right, and we will eventually see a lot of
 negotiating regarding the rights to computer imaging of actual people. Now,
 how about computer imaging of invented people, who just happen to look like
 some real people. After all, almost every famous person has a couple look
 alikes wandering around. With the basics of the human appearance it's pretty
 difficult to come up with a realistic looking human image that doesn't
 actually resemble a real human being.

BOB KLAHN

... Old immortals never die.  They just..........don't.
 * Silver Xpress V4.3P RB10275

--- FLAME v1.1
 * Origin: Telnet toltbbs.com or call 313-854-6001, Boardwatch #55 (1:234/2)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 68 of 441
 From : Bob Klahn                           1:234/2         .pä 03 .þë 96 17:30
 To   : Owen E. Oulton
 Subj : SO, HOW ABOUT THAT HU
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
  Spoiler Warning: Hunchback by Disney.














    FG>>  S P O I L E R   W A R N I N G ! !

 OEO> For, a classic novel written 150-200 years ago?  I think not...

BL>>  Esmerelda has the hots for is no prince either. Since everybody dies
BL>>  at the end, it's not your typical Disney happy ending.
 FG>>
 FG>>    You might have refrained from telling us that without warning,
 FG>> though.

 OEO> What, that the book has an ending which is "not your typical Disney
 OEO> happy ending?"  You'll note that Nicolai does not tell us how Disney
 OEO> Bowdlerises the ending, just that the book kills everyone off.

 What he didn't make clear here was that the book kills everyone off. I had
 the impression that the movie followed the book. Now I get the impression
 they changed the ending. Note, I have not followed the reviews in the press
 as I have little interest in seeing it. And now I don't know how it ends.

 OTOH, we've tossed enough in that I put the spoiler warning in.

 OEO> Gee, what other classic works do you think need spoilers?

 OEO> The Bible?  Jesus returns at the end, tosses all the sinners into
 OEO> Hell, and all the good guys live happily ever after.

 You must be thinking of the sequel. That part hasn't come out yet. Esp the
 "good guys live happily ever after."

 OEO> 20,000 Leagues Under The Sea?  Sighted sub, sank same.

 LOL!

 OEO> History Of The Civil War?  The North won, Lincoln got assassinated.

 We won? Why don't I feel like it?

BOB KLAHN

... 665.3141595326  Number of the Pentium Beast...
 * Silver Xpress V4.3P RB10275

--- FLAME v1.1
 * Origin: Telnet toltbbs.com or call 313-854-6001, Boardwatch #55 (1:234/2)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 69 of 441
 From : Bob Klahn                           1:234/2         .pä 03 .þë 96 17:30
 To   : David Johnston
 Subj : CANCELLED
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 DJ> Two such episodes come to mind, the one where Data started communicating
 DJ> with the little girl on the doomed planet, and the one where Worf's
 DJ> brother bullied them into saving some of the sentients.

 I had forgotten the "Worf's Brother" episode. Another good case in point.
 Let em die, at least we won't be violating our rules.

 Not as if saving a single village would make any real difference, they would
 die out from effects of inbreeding in no time anyway. Better just to
 integrate the survivors into the Federation, or give them the choice,
 anyway.

BOB KLAHN

... Why doesn't MY economy grow at 3.9 percent a year?
 * Silver Xpress V4.3P RB10275

--- FLAME v1.1
 * Origin: Telnet toltbbs.com or call 313-854-6001, Boardwatch #55 (1:234/2)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 70 of 441
 From : Bob Klahn                           1:234/2         .pä 03 .þë 96 17:30
 To   : Nicolai Shapero
 Subj : CANCELLED
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 NS> HAVE done is start a war.  Wars are, by their nature, destructive.
 NS> That does NOT mean that the Shadows are evil (we fought a war in the
 NS> Persian Gulf five years ago -- and we killed a LOT of people, and we
 NS> were overwhelmingly superior to our opponent technologically, but that
 NS> doesn't mean that WE'RE evil, does it?)

 We did not start the war, we just, well, I was going to say, "won it", but
 we really didn't. We just chased the Iraqis out of Kuwait.

 NS> Not to torture them, to test them.  Desparate times call for desparate

 The test was torture.

 NS> measures.  What I regard as arrogant is the way they dusted off
 NS> Deathstalker (the Dilgar who had the secret of immortality for all
 NS> races) and brushed it off as "you are not ready for immortality".
 NS> Arrogant.  And interfering.

 The test was arrogant, as was keeping immortality from the "lesser" races.

 NS> (They may well be proven to be evil in the end, but it's by no means

 They may not be evil in the end, but that's the way I'm betting.

BOB KLAHN

... Ferengi - The interplanetary version of Herb Tarlek.
 * Silver Xpress V4.3P RB10275

--- FLAME v1.1
 * Origin: Telnet toltbbs.com or call 313-854-6001, Boardwatch #55 (1:234/2)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 71 of 441
 From : Frank Swarbrick                     1:104/825       .òp 02 .þë 96 21:27
 To   : Jeff Lutkus
 Subj : Sliders Actually Decent!
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12  92-0022
On 06-30-96  22:30, shipwrecked and comatose, Jeff Lutkus said:

 -=> Quoting Eric Fishbein to All <=-

 JL> yes, indeed.  I agree with you there... well, in my personal opinion,
 JL> I'd say the show should go with a few writing guidelines... ie the
 JL> universe around earth is relatively the same... no asteriods are going
 JL> to smash into the earth, the earth is still there (well, unless the
 JL> people blew it up with an a-bomb or something).  But I heartily agree
 JL> with what you say there.  Basically all the shows went on the same
 JL> assumption that everything on earth was exactly the same as it was on
 JL> ours until, say, the 1800's or later, at which point there was some
 JL> minor or major change.  There should be more earths where something
 JL> happened 2000 years or 9000000000 years ago that make things really
 JL> weird :)  (but for that to happen, it would be nice if they could find
 JL> some universal translators like they use on Star Trek on some world
 JL> since chances are, not everyone will speak english)

Well, there was one where dinosaurs are still alive (though not
dominant), so that's more than 200 years...

I wonder if we'll get to see the Kromags' home at some point.

BTW, anyone who didn't get that Kromags were Cro-Magnon man after the
first, oh, few seconds <G>, well......  :-)

        Frank

... No one can hear when you're Screaming in Digital!
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12
 * Origin: The Bailey Information Exchange BBS, 28.8k v.fc  (1:104/825.0)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 72 of 441
 From : James Walton                        1:129/260       .pä 03 .þë 96 18:48
 To   : Mark Jones
 Subj : Re: LOIS AND CLARK
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 >    The series has hardly acknowledged that Clark has reproductive
 > organs--they aren't about to raise the ugly issue of how


In the original 2 hour episode, Clark's mother made a comment refering to parts
of his physique when he tried on his costume.  Clark look appropriately shocked.


--- Opus-CBCS 1.73a
 * Origin: ConFluence '96:  Return to Mars! (1:129/260.0)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 73 of 441
 From : Leman Russ                          1:2250/7        .òp 02 .þë 96 04:37
 To   : Brandon Wolgast
 Subj : Re: Cancelled
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 The moderator saidmentioning trekwas agiansttherules, but only enforced this
against people who criticized trek bashers.

 BTW, how long is Bolacks "Banned for life" list now? 3 megs?

>:[

--- DLG Pro v1.0/DLGMail
 * Origin: Sage's Tower - Amiga - (618) 259-1844 (1:2250/7)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 74 of 441
 From : Leman Russ                          1:2250/7        .òp 02 .þë 96 04:42
 To   : Brandon Wolgast
 Subj : Re: Cancelled
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 Well, maybe the vorlons are not the good guys, but they are set upto be such
because Kosh sacrificed himself to fight he shadows, andthe shadows are evil,
plain and simple.

 And I don't care what rational is given, the shadows are evil. They have
attacked without provocation, committed mass murder and have used living beings
as unwilling parts oftheir ships, so that makesthem evil and I don't  care how
they explain it. I am curious as to why they didthese things, but they cannot be
explained away.

>:[

--- DLG Pro v1.0/DLGMail
 * Origin: Sage's Tower - Amiga - (618) 259-1844 (1:2250/7)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 75 of 441
 From : Leman Russ                          1:2250/7        .òp 02 .þë 96 04:46
 To   : Jeff Hancock
 Subj : Re: B5 renewed
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 JH> Glenn?  Nah, he's got a chance.  Leman, now, there's a Dixon if I
 JH> ever
 JH> saw one, at least on the bashing end.


 I don;t know what a "Dixon" is, so your little insult means as little to me as,
well you do.

>:[

--- DLG Pro v1.0/DLGMail
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Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 76 of 441
 From : Leman Russ                          1:2250/7        .òp 02 .þë 96 04:49
 To   : Jeff Hancock
 Subj : Re: cancelled
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 Well, I can see you're a typical BABYlonian, so I'm just goingto ignore you and
not bother trying to explain anything to you.

>:[

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Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 77 of 441
 From : Leman Russ                          1:2250/7        .òp 02 .þë 96 04:52
 To   : Jeff Hancock
 Subj : Re: cancelled
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
The vorlons "denied humanity immortality" to prevent humanity from destroying
itself, which is what deathwalker planned.

 See, I do watch the show, despite your opinion tothe contrary.

>:[

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Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 78 of 441
 From : Leman Russ                          1:2250/7        .òp 02 .þë 96 04:56
 To   : Bob Klahn
 Subj : Re: SAAB
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 LR>> So cheer up, SAABies, there will be at least a coiuple novels, a
 LR>>fhanclub and probably a comic series from an indy company.

 NS> Based on the media novels that I've seen, however (for TREK, and B5)
 NS> any media novels will be BAD (story assignmes given to hack writers
 NS> for the most part whose goal is "g"get it done by Thursday", rather tha
 NS> "get something GOOD written...no matter how long it takes").

 BK>  Thunk...(Sound of nail being hit on the head.)

 All right, fine! I tried to cheer upthe SAAB fhans and point out thatthey could
do some fhanac with their series like other groups of fhans did for their shows,
but all I get for my efforts is people dumping on it. Fine. Forget what I said.
Be miserable over SAAB getting canned. I couldn;t care less!

>:[

--- DLG Pro v1.0/DLGMail
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Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 79 of 441
 From : Leman Russ                          1:2250/7        .òp 02 .þë 96 04:59
 To   : Kay Shapero
 Subj : Re: B5 tech
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 It's true that most ofthe races on B5 have their sordid litle pasts, I was
trying to think of which races might have the best records on the good/evil
scale...

 The vorlons did prevent deathwalker from destroyinbg humanity with her "gift"
of immortality, and kosh did sacrifice himself. Of course they could just be
playaying a chess game withthe shadows so itmight not count as what humans would
consider good.

 The narn are actually a fairly innocent species. True they
've done done some bad things inthe series, but they at least can claim to be
victims of centauri agression, and it's easy to feel sorry for them, getting
massacered and occupied twice.

 That race of slugs that occupied human bodies to preserve knowledge was fairly
saintly, according to the man who carried one and then spoke after it left. They
maybe the oy "saints" inthe B5 universe....

 We have seen nothing from the soulhunters since the one ep, which I think was
one ofthe worst ever, and a lot of B5 fhans agreed with me onthe echo, but they
haveapparently obeyed sinclairs injuction so they may not be obnoxious about
things.

 Any other ideas on B5 races, as judged by human standards?

>:[

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Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 80 of 441
 From : Gary Warren                         1:382/92.7      .pä 03 .þë 96 17:26
 To   : Gharlane of Eddore
 Subj : Ellison Alert
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
And since I was crossposting messages, I thought this tidbit about
Harlan Ellison's appearance on last night's Tom Snyder show may
be relevant here.--glw--
========================================================================
 Copied from U_R44_ARTTV by Gary Warren (1:382/92.7)
========================================================================
On (02 Jul 96) Gharlane of Eddore wrote to All...

 Go> From: gharlane@ccshp1.ccs.csus.edu (Gharlane of Eddore)

 Go> General note:

 Go> A friend just told me that the Tom Snyder show tonight (early
 Go> tomorrow?)
 Go> is scheduled to have a gent named Harlan Ellison aboard.
 Go> Note that Snyder's show is one of the few talk shows Ellison will
 Go> deign
 Go> to appear on, and that the repartee and discussion are usually worth
 Go> seeing.
 Go> So check your local listings, and see if it's scheduled in your
 Go> area....


Yep, my wife Teri and I saw and taped it last night.  The 30-35-minute
interview mostly dealt with Ellison's quadruple bypass surgery a couple
of months ago and his memories of his running away as a kid to join a
carnival.  Most of all, HE looks *much* better than his Sci-Fi
Channel SCI-FI BUZZ appearances did earlier this year.  All in all,
a funny and enjoyable Snyder show!



glw




-+- PPoint 1.90
 + Origin: Gary's Bar and Grill (1:382/92.7)

--- PPoint 1.90
 * Origin: Gary's Bar and Grill (1:382/92.7)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 81 of 441
 From : Kay Shapero                         1:102/524       .pä 03 .þë 96 08:36
 To   : Henry Triplett
 Subj : CGI vs Models
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Jul 02 23:32>, Henry Triplett (1:106/564) wrote to GLENN SHAHEEN:

 HT>Bad move, B5's CGI is at the cutting edge of the technology and
 HT>far above SAAB, IMHO.

Be it also noted that SAAB used models.  This is one thing that made it so very
expensive, and probably a factor in its' demise.

--- msged 2.06
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Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 82 of 441
 From : Kay Shapero                         1:102/524       .pä 03 .þë 96 08:38
 To   : David Johnston
 Subj : Re: B5 Tech
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Jul 02 01:21>, David Johnston (1:342/14) wrote to Kay Shapero:

 DJ>Actually, it is for us as well.  Smiles send the message "I am
 DJ>not afraid of you or at all worried."

They also send the message "I mean you no harm."  At least to other humans of a
culture that uses them.  Certainly we don't smile at small children to threaten
them.  It doesn't mean what it means when a baboon "smiles" at you...

--- msged 2.06
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Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 83 of 441
 From : Kay Shapero                         1:102/524       .pä 03 .þë 96 08:46
 To   : Bob Klahn
 Subj : CANCELLED
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Jul 01 11:58>, Bob Klahn (1:234/2) wrote to Jeff Hancock:

 BK> really didn't even understand that they were dieing off. We try
 BK>to protect them so vigorously you can go to prison for killing a bald
 BK>eagle.

You can go to prison for finding and keeping a bald eagle FEATHER!

One more subtle reason for the PD may be the fact that if you hand someone else
technological information, they get only that info; they DON'T get the other
things that they would have learned along the way if they'd discovered it
themselves.  Including, like as not, some things that the Federation culture
never found out themselves.  Each species, like each individual, is different.
(and we're back to David Brin's Uplift universe, where the human race uses the
Library to suggest areas of investigation, but avoids depending on it.)

--- msged 2.06
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Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 84 of 441
 From : Kay Shapero                         1:102/524       .pä 03 .þë 96 08:47
 To   : Jeff Hancock
 Subj : Sabotaging Babylon
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Jul 01 12:09>, Kay Shapero (1:102/524) wrote to Jeff Hancock:

 JH>Whatever happened to the first eight, anyway?  <snicker>

 KS>That's easy - the first three were blown up by disgruntled
 KS>Bajorans, the fourth was taken back in time to Vulcan to help out
 KS>in the days when the ancestors of the Romulans split off from
 KS>those who became the modern day Vulcans, the fifth was swiped by
 KS>the Ferengi and is still operating as a giant dabo palace
 KS>orbiting their homeworld, the sixth was destroyed by disgruntled
 KS>Cardassians, the seventh had the computer achieve full sentience
 KS>and escaped through the wormhole, to find a new life as a bookie
 KS>in the Delta Quadrant.  :->

Oops - almost forgot one.  The eighth is parked on the LASFS lot next to the
clubhouse.  :->

(It is, too - we've got two trailers used for overflow, conversation and
whatnont - one named DS8, the other Babylon 4.  The latter frequently has a TV
in it since B5 is on during the LASFS club meetings.)


--- msged 2.06
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Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 85 of 441
 From : Jeff Hancock                        1:3600/7        .pä 03 .þë 96 20:25
 To   : Glenn Shaheen
 Subj : cancelled
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

GS>JH>will undoubtedly come to mind to those reading, but in general,
GS>JH>why AREN'T they actively making war on the Klingons, or the
GS>JH>Dominion, or trying to go hunt down the Borg, eh?
GS>        Why didn't the USSR go to war with the US when that U2
GS>spyplane incident happened?

An attack on a spyplane with a military pilot is one thing (it WAS
invading their airspace, and the U.S. would rather not have had it
publicized in any event), while an attack on a space station with
civilian innocents and which was not invading anyone's terrority is
quite another.

GS>JH>Your argument is that "Trek looks real".  So are you saying you've
GS>        It looks more real than B5 to me.

This argument has gotten absolutely pointless. I'll say it one last
time: You just think it looks real because that's what you're used to
seeing.  End Of Debate.

GS>JH>Space is not completely empty; but the "dust" you speak of is
GS>JH>generally of a very low density.  You usually only have to worry
GS>        Now it isn't that dense, but what about near a space station
GS>where skirmishes happen frequently and it is used alot? There'd be a
GS>lot more dust than there is now.

Yes, which is why B5 at least has automated cleanup droids patrolling
the nearby region to clean up debris before someone runs into it and
punches a hole in their ship.  That should apply to the dust too, if
it's in sufficient quantities to be detected.

You never hear about it with Trek, but then they have those low-power
deflectors which magically take care of it.  (did anyone ever explain
why shields stop transporters and deflectors don't?)

GS>JH>Now you're simply parroting.  But, okay, we'll play it that way.
GS>JH>Plastic is plastic.  It ain't changing all that much.  Computers
GS>JH>now, they evolve every single day.  Each year gives you a huge
GS>JH>leap in processing power, memory capacity, and so forth... CGI and

GS>        Yes. With your logic the flying saucers from Plan 9 From
GS>Outer Space look like the flying saucers from Independence Day.

That makes absolutely no sense whatsoever.  But then, I was using your
logic.

I don't even know what ID4 uses, but computers seem very likely, for
enhancement if not total generation.  I'll bet it certainly couldn't
have been done a few years ago without taking a helluva lot longer.

GS>JH>with a model there would be no place to suspend or mount the darn
GS>JH>thing where it wouldn't show up on camera.
GS>        But you can take the suspension out with... um... computers.

Easier not to have it there in the first place.  And the number of
Starfuries they've blown up...  The modelling cost would be
astronomical.

-=-
 * Crazy-J * Old programmers never die: They exit to a higher shell.

--- SLMAIL v3.5C  (#1540)
 * Origin: Robotech þ Lake City's Music*Demo BBS þ [904] 758*9477 (1:3600/7)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 86 of 441
 From : Jeff Hancock                        1:3600/7        .åò 04 .þë 96 13:56
 To   : Lis Carey
 Subj : CANCELLED
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

LC>They've been gradually building up the tensions between the
LC>Federation and the Klingon Empire all this season, and part of last
LC>season. There _wasn't_ just the one incident when DS9 was actually
LC>attacked; that just happened to be the only one you noticed.

The only real Klingon incident I remember since the attack was the one
where they were laying some form of stealth minefield.  Other Klingon
eps pop to mind, but I can't place their time as being before or after
the trucebreaking.

LC>JH>Funny how they only attacked DS9 though, and haven't really
LC>JH>attacked since.
LC>The Klingons haven't been primarily interested in starting a war with
LC>the Federation; they had long-standing tensions with the Cardassians,
LC>and no treaty with them as they had with the Federation. When the

And, of course, they weren't worried about attacking DS9 since they knew
the Feds wouldn't start a war over it. ;)

LC>The Klingons felt _betrayed_ when their ally, the Federation, opposed
LC>their plans and gave aid to the Cardassians - or so Gowron claimed.
LC>Except that now we know that Gowron is actually a Changeling...I'd
LC>look for further developments, here. Including a possible reason why
LC>TPTB didn't actually kill off Kurn.:)

Assuming he's been a Changeling for that long.

It does make a little more sense now, aside from my not remembering why
the Feds decided to help the Cardassians in any event.  Anyone want to
imagine Jean-Luc's reaction upon hearing that bit of news?

LC>The Changelings' plan all along has been to manipulate the major
LC>powers of Alpha Quadrant into destroying themselves, at minimal
LC>trouble and expense to the Changelings. And there's been _lots_ of
LC>foreshadowing of _that_.

Yes, to the point where one wishes they would get on with it already.
Even now I'm not convinced they'll get around to acting on it next
season.  Is the next one expected to be the last, now that it's in
syndication?  Perhaps they'll go out with a bang, relatively speaking,
since the station has to survive for the inevitable movies. ;)

LC>I'm not saying you should like DS9 at all, much less like it better
LC>than B5; I agree that B5 has a greater depth and greater texture of

Hah hah!  Why would I think that? ;)

LC>reality. But some of your criticisms of DS9 just aren't factually
LC>accurate, and they certainly aren't fair to this most textured, dark,
LC>and complex of all the Trek series.

Perhaps not.  I have watched every episode, but certainly not made much
effort to rewatch or remember everything that happens, unlike the
continual dissection of every minor sub-sub-subplot that occurs on B5.

And the whole Dominion/Changeling/Klingon/etc etc thing on DS9 just
reminds me of that old dollar-bill-on-a-string gag, tease the viewer and
then pull it away.  Maybe I'm just guilty of expecting too much, and as
long as events pan out without being dropped, just let it go.

-=-
 * Crazy-J * You think your 1200 is slow?  My modem has tubes!

--- SLMAIL v3.5C  (#1540)
 * Origin: Robotech þ Lake City's Music*Demo BBS þ [904] 758*9477 (1:3600/7)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 87 of 441
 From : Frank Glover                        1:2613/477      .åò 04 .þë 96 19:24
 To   : Nicolai Shapero
 Subj : Re: OUTER LIMITS
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

NS>   FG>intelligence gathering, too. (Also reminiscent of how dogs could
NS>   FG>tell human-looking Terminators from real humans.)
NS>
NS>  IMNSHO, the Terminator "dogs tell terminators from humans" was
NS>  undoubtedly derived from "dogs have betters senses of smell than
NS>  humans".

   Oh yeah, no doubt. But the point was that one side in both The Terminator and
Soldier depend on what today is a common house pet.

   Frank


--- QuickBBS 2.80 GoldBase (Zeta-2.0a)
 * Origin: The Matrix Data Bank BBS, Rochester, Ny (1:2613/477)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 88 of 441
 From : Frank Glover                        1:2613/477      .åò 04 .þë 96 19:43
 To   : Mark Jones
 Subj : Re: THEN AND NOW...
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

MJ>  Within a few years of the Hollywood's use of digital actors, you'll
MJ>  se
MJ>  home-made *fan-fic* films, just like you can now find written
MJ>  fan-fic.
MJ>   So, any version of Trek you want will be available somewhere...or
MJ>  you
MJ>  can do your own.

   And, as I suggested earlier, if it gets that easy, there's lots of material
to mine in all the Trek (or other sf) novels out there, `canon' problems not
withstanding.

   Indeed, some stories require such unusual aliens and effects, that good
quality computer animation might be the *only* economical way to do them.
(M'Ress of theanimated Trek series might not be too hard to do in live action,
but Garrex?)

   Frank


--- QuickBBS 2.80 GoldBase (Zeta-2.0a)
 * Origin: The Matrix Data Bank BBS, Rochester, Ny (1:2613/477)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 89 of 441
 From : Frank Glover                        1:2613/477      .åò 04 .þë 96 19:50
 To   : Bob Klahn
 Subj : Re: THEN AND NOW...
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

BK>   how about computer imaging of invented people, who just happen to
BK>  look like
BK>   some real people. After all, almost every famous person has a couple
BK>  look
BK>   alikes wandering around. With the basics of the human appearance
BK>  it's pretty
BK>   difficult to come up with a realistic looking human image that
BK>  doesn't
BK>   actually resemble a real human being.

   True. And that's why even today there's that standard disclamer: "This is a
work of fiction. Any similarity to any person, living or dead, is purely
coincidental." Of course there are exceptions for `public domain' kinds of
people, as long as there's no slander.

   Unfortunately I don't remember the title or author, but a few years back, a
friend pointed out an SF novel with a minor character who just happened to have
my name....

   Frank


--- QuickBBS 2.80 GoldBase (Zeta-2.0a)
 * Origin: The Matrix Data Bank BBS, Rochester, Ny (1:2613/477)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 90 of 441
 From : Frank Glover                        1:2613/477      .åò 04 .þë 96 19:56
 To   : David Johnston
 Subj : Re: Then And Now...
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

DJ>  -> My reply to that was, given our current rate of development, if
DJ>  -> things kept up the way they are going now in a thousand years we
DJ>  will
DJ>  -> develop so far
DJ>
DJ>  It seems to me to be unlikely that our current rate of development
DJ>  will
DJ>  continue indefinitely, if for no other reason that it is only a
DJ>  matter
DJ>  of a couple of centuries before human society either collapses, or
DJ>  consolidates into something a little more stable.

   So stability equals an artificial leveling off of development? (Some might
even call that stagnation.) There was an editorial about this in Analog a month
or two ago.....

   Frank


--- QuickBBS 2.80 GoldBase (Zeta-2.0a)
 * Origin: The Matrix Data Bank BBS, Rochester, Ny (1:2613/477)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 91 of 441
 From : Tony Sayger                         1:366/205       .pä 03 .þë 96 15:46
 To   : James Walton
 Subj : Re: Robert A. Heinlein
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Falcon said this wisdom about James Walton's post to Nicolai
about Robert A. Heinlein on 07-03-96  09:18:

 > At the point where Heinlein was freed from editorial control,
 > IMHO, his  writing rapidly deteriorated.
 JW> But you must admit that Heinlein's crap was better than a lot of the
 JW> best from some of today's authors.

HERE! HERE! A toast to "The Dean of Science Fiction!"

ßàÜÇÔÿ
ïÄßÄï

... I'm not as think as you drunk I am, ossifer.

___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20 [NR]

--- Sunny <HAHA> Florida
 * Origin: Megatropolis BBS ¨Crestview, Fl. 14.4 OS/2! (904)689-002 (1:366/205)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 92 of 441
 From : Mark Jones                          1:105/302.47    .òp 02 .þë 96 22:42
 To   : Glenn Shaheen
 Subj : cancelled
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On (29 Jun 96) Glenn Shaheen wrote to Jeff Hancock...

 JH> In fact, some of that "perfectness" may be part of what you don't
 JH> get. In space, with no atmosphere to scatter the light, shadows
 JH> are sharp and clear, not scattered with an uneven boundary, so
 JH> something with ruler-straight defined areas of light and dark is
 JH> going to look "unreal"... but that's how it looks in space.
 GS>         Ohhhh. And you've been in space. There is space dust, however,
 GS> which would scatter the light.

   Bzzzzzzzt!  Wrong--but thanks for playing!  You just can't admit
that you're wrong, can you?
   You're entitled to your opinion.  If you like model work better
than CGI, fine.  But whining about the "unrealistic" sharpness of
shadows in CGI space scenes is sad.


--- PPoint 1.78
 * Origin: Folcroft Sanitarium (hsmith@cure.com) (1:105/302.47)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 93 of 441
 From : Mark Jones                          1:105/302.47    .òp 02 .þë 96 23:13
 To   : Nicolai Shapero
 Subj : Sliders Actually Decent!
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On (30 Jun 96) Nicolai Shapero wrote to Eric Fishbein...

 NS> Actually, I thought it indicated that the show was going to go
 NS> VERY much downhill next season. "Oh, we can't just explore
 NS> different possible worlds, we've got to have BAD GUYS chasing
 NS> them from world to world..."
 NS>
 NS> Feh!

Absolutely!  This was the most disappointing episode they've done so
far this season, in my opinion.  Some of the others were silly, but
this one was a bad move.

 NS> If those "kromags" existed and kept expanding, they'd eventually
 NS> run in to a far more technologically advanced world (occupied by
 NS> other kromags or by homo sapiens) and they'd get their heads
 NS> handed to them. You don't conquer an infinite number of worlds in
 NS> finite time...

Especially given that the invasion of a single world-line will
multiply infinitely, with every possible outcome generating a new
world-line.  Every strategic decision, every tactical decision, every
battle, every shot fired--will lead to countless "branching"
worldlines.  The kromags will simultaneously conquer, fail to conquer,
and be conquered *by* every world they attack....


--- PPoint 1.78
 * Origin: Folcroft Sanitarium (hsmith@cure.com) (1:105/302.47)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 94 of 441
 From : Mark Jones                          1:105/302.47    .òp 02 .þë 96 23:20
 To   : David Johnston
 Subj : Then And Now...
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On (02 Jul 96) David Johnston wrote to Bob Klahn...

 DJ> It seems to me to be unlikely that our current rate of
 DJ> development will continue indefinitely, if for no other reason
 DJ> that it is only a matter of a couple of centuries before human
 DJ> society either collapses, or consolidates into something a little
 DJ> more stable.

   Why?  Why will human society collapse?  People have been predicting
that since humans could talk.

   "The Earth is degenerating today.  Bribery and corruption abound.
Children no longer obey their parents, every man wants to write a
book, and it is evident that the end of the world is fast
approaching."
   --inscription on an Assyrian stone tablet from 2800 B.C.

   I suspect that such views have more to do with every generation's
inability to believe that the world will go on after *they* die than
with any real changes in the world.  The eco-disaster scare stories
today are, in large part, no different (in my opinion).  In the late
1800s people worried that by today (1990s), New York would be buried
under the manure produced by all the horses needed to move people and
cargo around.  They couldn't see a way around it.
   But we found one (with its own shortcomings, true--but we'll find
answers for those, too).

   Very few cultures are truly stable.  And frankly, I wouldn't want
to live in a "stable" culture--stability only exists when an
oppressive government makes it their business to *enforce* stability
at gunpoint.  Democratic cultures and market economies are constantly
changing.

   As for technology--the total wealth in the world, and the rate of
change of technology (which drives the production of wealth) has been
increasing for a long time.  And the increase itself speeds up.  Which
is how Vernor Vinge comes up with the notion of the "singularity",
where the curve grows steeper and steeper until it becomes completely
vertical--the singularity.  Which in theory means infinite change,
infinitely fast.
   In practice, it likely will amount to a "phase change" where the
fundamental premises of science become unrecognizable, and Clarke's
Law becomes operative:  any sufficiently advanced technology is
indistinguishable from magic.

   The future will be many things, I'm certain, but "stable" isn't
going to be one of them.

--- PPoint 1.78
 * Origin: Folcroft Sanitarium (hsmith@cure.com) (1:105/302.47)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 95 of 441
 From : Dean Sweatman                       1:3604/33       .åò 04 .þë 96 23:01
 To   : Number 6
 Subj : nosf3
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
If you made the con then Sunday was the most affordable of the
days.  They were charging $15.00 on Friday, $25.00 on Saturday
and $10.00 on Sunday for a one day membership.  <ouch>  And the
Friday dance was $5.00 a head while the Saturday Dance was
$10.00 a head (for non members of the con){they (Nosf3) sell a
special evening membership for those that can't afford to spend
more than an evening on site supposedly for entry to just the
dance but in most cases it will get you into the events that are
still going on.}

I arrived Friday just before noon and went into SMOOZE Mode
talking to anyone and everyone unlucky enough to not have
avoided getting within striking range.<g>  Jan and Jim Mule, Tom
Feller (& lady friend), James P Hogan, Robert & Anne, Jo &
Lonnie Peshek, Albert Hoffman, Guy Lillian, John Guidry, Dennis
Dolbear, Joanne Montalbano, Roy LeBlanc (& lady friend), The
Disk Doctor, Zane & Grace Melder, Cory Callender, Frank (from
Coast Con), Joe and Dena, and a host (is a host more or less
than a gross?) of others (This year the list was approching
biblical measures<g>).

I don't go to a con for Guests, Panels, Dances, Movies (video),
or to party and of late less and less time is being spent in
the dealers room.  I go to see local and out of town friends that
I do not come into contact with during the 48 or so other weekends
a year.  I pay a membership fee for the oppertunity to talk up to 60
hours, have a few drinks, and generally enjoy the thing called
FANDOM.  This year was The Best time I have had in quite a while
even if The Lovely Babs decided to pass on the event (or maybe
it was because of this fact<g>).

It was a good con but I have to let Jo or someone else fill you
in on what went on as I was up to my ears in words most of the
time oblivious to things going on.  Oh yes there was a Fire
Drill (unplaned) and there was the mess on Saturday night with
the Dance Band (the hotel managment booted them off stage with-in
15 min of their starting to play).  And there was the Annual Mike
Todd disclaimer that THIS WAS THE LAST NOSF3.

I heard that though the projected 1000+ attending membership
projection was missed by between 20 to 25% the con still made a
profit.  (due to the bumping up of the membership rate to $30.00
from $25.00 the past severial years and the increased prices on
the one day memberships).  I heard that the ASB party was wild
and that the Babylon 504 party was a refreashing return to the
Fannish Room Party of days gone by.  The DSC room party was more
to my style but due to the time it was held was vastly under
supported.  The Point BBS party seemed to go well but I really
haven't heard much about what went on there.

There were problems at NOSF3 to be sure but for those of my own
ilk it was GREAT.

Fiawol


... Dean Sweatman's Continuing and Relentless quest toward Fuggheadedness
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.20 [NR]
 * Origin: Atrocity Exhibition (1:3604/33)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 96 of 441
 From : Nicolai Shapero                     1:102/524       .åò 04 .þë 96 07:49
 To   : David Johnston
 Subj : Re: Cancelled
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Jul 02 01:20>, David Johnston (1:342/14) wrote to Nicolai Shapero:

-> Not to torture them, to test them.  Desparate times call for
-> desparate

 DJ>The test WAS torture.

That's a matter of interpretation.

-> DJ>But the Shadows are clearly inimical to DJ>all DJ>life,
-> everywhere.
-> Oh?  All they've done so far is keep their bargains.  And set OTHERS
-> up to make some big mistakes.

 DJ>All others.

Suppose, just for the moment, that the Shadows were "good guys" but up against
pretty rough odds.  They've "lost" a couple of times, and gotten their heads
handed to them.  They've had their worlds burned, their cities destroyed.  And
they're FINALLY making a comeback.  Now suppose that it's HUMANS who are in that
position.  We'd fight pretty damn rough (read: dirty) coming from that kind of
disadvantage.  And in war, there are times when you're going to do some pretty
disgusting things.  So...I'd see humans doing some things a lot nastier than
what the Shadows have already done, in similar circumstances.  So, while I might
tend to regard the Shadows as "not nice people", they don't automatically get
classified as "totally evil reprehensible monsters that must be destroyed".  JMS
might still have a few tricks up his sleeve (look at how he rehabilitated G'Kar,
for pete's sake!)

-- Nicolai Shapero, the Mad Russian Sysop of StormGate Aerie

--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 97 of 441
 From : Nicolai Shapero                     1:102/524       .åò 04 .þë 96 07:54
 To   : James Walton
 Subj : Re: Robert A. Heinlein
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Jul 01 17:59>, James Walton (1:129/260) wrote to Nicolai Shapero:

 > At the point where Heinlein was freed from editorial control,
 > IMHO, his  writing rapidly deteriorated.
 JW>
 JW>But you must admit that Heinlein's crap was better than a lot of
 JW>the best from some of today's authors.

Heinlein when he was still being edited, yes.  But TIME ENOUGH FOR LOVE?  I WILL
FEAR NO EVIL?  Hardly.  _I_ can write better stories than those two clunkers.

-- Nicolai Shapero, the Mad Russian Sysop of StormGate Aerie

--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 98 of 441
 From : Nicolai Shapero                     1:102/524       .åò 04 .þë 96 07:59
 To   : Leman Russ
 Subj : Re: cancelled
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Jun 30 04:33>, Leman Russ (1:2250/7) wrote to Nicolai Shapero:

 LR> Sorry, nick, can;t agree with you about the shadows being good
 LR>duys. They attackwithout provocation too much, just ask the narn.

Hmmm...without provocation, you say?  A thousand years earlier, they have most
of their worlds blasted clean of life.  They are attacked and killed without
mercy.  Alien forces combine to attempt to exterminate them, and very nearly
succeed.  Then they take "the long view" and wait for a thousand years, hidden
in their bunkers and hidden shelters, planning how to rebuild the glory of their
lost empire.  Now...substitute Humans for Shadows, and see how it sounds.  You'd
be ready for the monkey boys to go out and "kick some ass" wouldn't you?

Frankly, I don't really expect the Shadows to turn out to be
goodie-two-shoes-perfect types.  But I wouldn't consider it totally unbelievable
for them to be far better than they've been painted.  We've only heard from one
side, after all...

-- Nicolai Shapero, the Mad Russian Sysop of StormGate Aerie

--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 99 of 441
 From : Nicolai Shapero                     1:102/524       .åò 04 .þë 96 08:03
 To   : Henry Triplett
 Subj : CGI vs Models
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Jul 02 23:32>, Henry Triplett (1:106/564) wrote to GLENN SHAHEEN:

-=> Quoting Glenn Shaheen to Jeff Hancock <=-

 GS> And since I don't watch B5 much, I was basing my opinion
 GS> of their CGI on Space: Above and Beyond, whose CGI jes plain sucks.
 HT>
 HT>Bad move, B5's CGI is at the cutting edge of the technology and
 HT>far above
 HT>SAAB, IMHO.

Guys, SAAB used models for most of their effects, not CGI.

-- Nicolai Shapero, the Mad Russian Sysop of StormGate Aerie

--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 100 of 441
 From : Nicolai Shapero                     1:102/524       .åò 04 .þë 96 08:07
 To   : Jared Callanan
 Subj : SPACE:  ABOVE AND BEY
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Jun 30 21:11>, Jared Callanan (1:324/127) wrote to Bob Klahn:

[Portion of message deleted to save on everyone's overhead]

BK> ... A dirty mind is a terrible thing to waste.
BK>  * Silver Xpress V4.3P RB10275

BK> --- FLAME v1.1
BK>  * Origin: Telnet toltbbs.com or call 313-854-6001,
BK> Boardwatch #55 (1:234/2)
 JC> Yeah I like both. To bad Fox is not going to renew Space above
 JC>and beyond but theres always the sci fi channel.
 JC>Thanks,
 JC>Jared

Jared -- I've seen you quote ENTIRE messages repeatedly, INCLUDING THE ORIGIN
AND TEAR LINES.  Please do not do this.  It needlessly increases the phone bills
of ALL the sysops who pick up this conference.

-- Nicolai Shapero, Moderator of the SFFAN echo

--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 101 of 441
 From : Kay Shapero                         1:102/524       .åò 04 .þë 96 11:09
 To   : Henry Triplett
 Subj : Sabotaging Babylon
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Jul 03 08:53>, Henry Triplett (1:106/564) wrote to KAY SHAPERO:

 HT>Hmmm. So what happened to the eighth station?  Don't keep us in
 HT>suspense, TELL US!!!

It's parked on the lot of the Los Angeles Science Fantasy Society, over next to
Babylon 4.  (No kidding - if you ever get out this way on a Thursday evening,
drop by!)

--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 102 of 441
 From : Kay Shapero                         1:102/524       .åò 04 .þë 96 11:10
 To   : Jared Callanan
 Subj : Re: cancelled
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Jun 30 21:19>, Jared Callanan (1:324/127) wrote to Frank Glover:

 JC> Trek has been cancelled but I would exspect it back, because

When did that happen?  Far as I know, Voyager and DS9 are still going strong,
while TNG deliberately ended its run.

--- msged 2.06
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Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 103 of 441
 From : Kay Shapero                         1:102/524       .åò 04 .þë 96 12:17
 To   : Bill Hedrick
 Subj : Re: B5 Renewed
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Jul 02 11:58>, Bill Hedrick (1:282/26) wrote to Glenn Shaheen:

 GS>         See? Stereotype b5 freak who has nothing better to do than
 GS> trash Trek and its fans blindly. In fact, weren't you the same person
 GS> who was trashing Voyager blindly too?

 BH>hee! Glenn, Todd's so much a Trek fan that he's a Klingon.....

Heck, *I'm* a Trek fan AND a Klingon; have been for years.  Dates back to the
mid '70s when I joined both *STAR San Diego and the Klingon Star Empire, the
latter being a group of us who used to hang out at Grossmont Jr. College.  And
just like the LASFS, Death will NOT release you!  :->

Kalisa Santiel d' Sauntee, KBV Sauntee

*= stood for Star Trek Association for Revival at the time.  This, of course,
was YEARS before ST:the Motion Picture.

--- msged 2.06
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Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 104 of 441
 From : Kay Shapero                         1:102/524       .åò 04 .þë 96 11:14
 To   : Barney Muldoon
 Subj : B5 Bs
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Jul 02 20:09>, Barney Muldoon (1:123/38) wrote to David Johnston:

 BM> And, guys, note the spelling. Every time I see it spelled
 BM>"Mimbarri", I
 BM> get this really sharp pain right here...
 BM>

Maybe I ought to start posting the B5 spelling check list over here
occasionally...  Or once anyway:

Agamemnon
Lyta Alexander
Zack Allan
Bester
Brakiri
Bureau 13
Centauri
The Third Fane of Chudomo
Morgan Clark
Vir Cotto
Delenn
Draal
Droshalla
Michael Garibaldi
G'Kar
G'Quan
General Hague
Isil'zha
Susan Ivanova
Warren Keffer
Lennier
Lyndisty
Marcus
Minbari
Londo Mollari
Morden
Kosh Naranek
Narns
Rathenn
Lord Refa
John Sheridan
Jeffrey Sinclair
J. Michael Straczynski
Streibs
Valen
Valeria
Vorlons
Vree
Zathras
Z'ha'dum


--- msged 2.06
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Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 105 of 441
 From : Kay Shapero                         1:102/524       .åò 04 .þë 96 11:15
 To   : Ken Mayes
 Subj : Re: So, How about that Hunchback?
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Jul 02 10:10>, Ken Mayes (1:393/7@fido) wrote to Frank Glover:

 KM>        Somebody stop Disney before they adapt Schindler's List
 KM>to an animated musical!

A friend of mine named Lee Gold wrote a song entitled "Hamlet by Disney" which
is a real hoot.  I know she's publishing it in one of her filk zines; anybody
who wants to know the details send me netmail and I'll let you know when it's
out.

--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 106 of 441
 From : Kay Shapero                         1:102/524       .åò 04 .þë 96 11:23
 To   : Jeff Hancock
 Subj : Sabotaging Babylon
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Jul 03 12:31>, Jeff Hancock (1:3600/7) wrote to Kay Shapero:

KS> JH>Oooooooohhhh, Kay-chan... That was positively *evil*.
KS>Thank you, thank you...

 JH>The fun never stops, does it?

Not if I can help it. :->

Give me a place to stand and I will pie-bomb the world!

--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 107 of 441
 From : Kay Shapero                         1:102/524       .åò 04 .þë 96 12:15
 To   : Nicolai Shapero
 Subj : Re: Cancelled
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Jul 04 07:49>, Nicolai Shapero (1:102/524) wrote to David Johnston:

 NS>automatically get classified as "totally evil reprehensible
 NS>monsters that must be destroyed".  JMS might still have a few
 NS>tricks up his sleeve (look at how he rehabilitated G'Kar, for
 NS>pete's sake!)

Quite likely - according to a convention report in the latest Zocalo, JMS  "said
something that stunned the audience.  He said that we will know why the Shadows
are doing what they are doing by the end of this season, and he predicted that
at least one-third of us will AGREE WITH THEM.  This due to the fact that the
Shadows reason made sense.  Everyone just sat there.  I hate when he does that."


--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 108 of 441
 From : David Johnston                      1:342/14        .ÿò 05 .þë 96 00:06
 To   : Bob Klahn
 Subj : Cancelled
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
-> DJ> Two such episodes come to mind, the one where Data started
-> communicating DJ> with the little girl on the doomed planet, and the
-> one where Worf's DJ> brother bullied them into saving some of the
-> sentients.
-> I had forgotten the "Worf's Brother" episode. Another good case in
-> point. Let em die, at least we won't be violating our rules.
-> Not as if saving a single village would make any real difference,
-> they would die out from effects of inbreeding in no time anyway.
-> Better just to

The effects of inbreeding are not so predictable as one might suppose.
If there were no fatal recessives in the original population, they might
actually do quite well, inbreeding or no.

--- PCBoard (R) v15.21/100
 * Origin: Freddy's Place - Edm. AB - 33.6K (403) 413-3460 (1:342/14)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 109 of 441
 From : Henry Triplett                      1:106/564       .ÿò 05 .þë 96 11:34
 To   : KAY SHAPERO
 Subj : CGI vs Models
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

-=> Quoting Kay Shapero to Henry Triplett <=-

 KS> On <Jul 02 23:32>, Henry Triplett (1:106/564) wrote to GLENN SHAHEEN:

 HT>Bad move, B5's CGI is at the cutting edge of the technology and
 HT>far above SAAB, IMHO.

 KS> Be it also noted that SAAB used models.  This is one thing that made
 KS> it so  very expensive, and probably a factor in its' demise.

Probably so, the rumored $2 million per episode is pretty steep.  I didn't
follow the show too closely, so I just took his word that they were using
CGI.  Interesting that Glenn thought their models looked like poor CGI.  :)

Henry

... "There is No cause for Alarm...But there probabily Will Be!"-The Brain

___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20 [NR]
--- GEcho 1.00
 * Origin: Eat Flaming Death    Houston Texas    713-447-1927 (1:106/564)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 110 of 441
 From : Frank Swarbrick                     1:104/825       .pä 03 .þë 96 19:53
 To   : Glenn Shaheen
 Subj : cancelled
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12  92-0022
On 06-29-96  17:49, shipwrecked and comatose, Glenn Shaheen said:

 JH>Guess you haven't noticed them then, or you're not taking scale into
 JH>account.  When you see close-ups, you generally see the gritty details,
 JH>but the worn paint or scars aren't going to be all that visible from a
 JH>distance unless it's major damage.

 GS> And since I don't watch B5 much, I was basing my opinion
 GS> of their CGI on Space: Above and Beyond, whose CGI jes plain sucks.

In what way does it "suck"?  I think it's quite good!

        Frank

... No one can hear when you're Screaming in Digital!
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12
 * Origin: The Bailey Information Exchange BBS, 28.8k v.fc  (1:104/825.0)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 111 of 441
 From : Todd Sullivan                       1:202/720.3     .åò 04 .þë 96 18:54
 To   : Leman Russ
 Subj : cancelled
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Reports from the Interior indicate that Leman Russ leaked the following to
Nicolai Shapero, re: cancelled

 NS>> conference, why did you stay?  It takes WORK, usually, to get banned
 NS>> from a conference.

 LR>  Not when the moderator is a dick like the B5 one was. And I stayed
 LR> because I LIKED the people who didn't feel thatthey had to tear down
 LR> trek and trekkers to compensatefor their "audeince envy". Those were OK
 LR> people, it was the ones who left messages like >Down with trek",which
 LR> themoderator allowed, that sucked.

Wrong.  *NO* bashing is permitted, period.  Comparisons are also frowned on, as
they quickly degenerate into bashing.

Next time, why not tell the entire story, not just your side.

Lying about Dave won't help.

Todd Sullivan

... "For once in my life, I'm going to have something pure!"
     --Guy de Guisbourne

-*- ASTG 1.9

--- Spot 1.3a Unregistered
 * Origin: Todd's Spot in the Continuum (1:202/720.3)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 112 of 441
 From : Todd Sullivan                       1:202/720.3     .åò 04 .þë 96 19:01
 To   : Bill Hedrick
 Subj : B5 Renewed
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Reports from the Interior indicate that Bill Hedrick leaked the following to
Glenn Shaheen, re: B5 Renewed

 GS>> trash Trek and its fans blindly. In fact, weren't you the same person
 GS>> who was trashing Voyager blindly too?

 BH> hee! Glenn, Todd's so much a Trek fan that he's a Klingon.....

And now, for the $128,000, what would I be in B5?

<hehehe>

Todd Sullivan

... What do you expect?  This is California!

-*- ASTG 1.9

--- Spot 1.3a Unregistered
 * Origin: Todd's Spot in the Continuum (1:202/720.3)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 113 of 441
 From : Glenn Shaheen                       1:3600/7        .pä 03 .þë 96 18:52
 To   : Gerry Normandeau
 Subj : cancelled
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

GN>COOL!? That has got to be the most inepedt battle I have ever seen! For o

        I was talking about the space part, the look.

GN>thing the Klingons were wining then they send over a bording party armed
GN>with
GN>only Batleths!???! That is the stupidest way to take over a station. Also
GN>if you take over a station send in everyone. Not just a losy 100 guys, yo
GN>send
GN>in every marine from every ship and then you keep sending them until you
GN>have
GN>whiped out all resistance. These are supose to be trained and hardened
GN>worriors.
GN>Then they pull out because SIX!??!? starships were coming? They outnumber
GN>them,
GN>what, 10 to one?

        Yes, but then they would have a full scale war on their hands.
Even the Klingons do not want that.

-=-
 * OLX 2.2 * It's not nice to be a name-dropper. GERRY NORMANDEAU told me th

--- SLMAIL v3.5C  (#1540)
 * Origin: Robotech þ Lake City's Music*Demo BBS þ [904] 758*9477 (1:3600/7)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 114 of 441
 From : Glenn Shaheen                       1:3600/7        .pä 03 .þë 96 19:00
 To   : Todd Sullivan
 Subj : B5 renewed
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

TS>Blindly?  I watched Voyager and couldn't believe its lack of quality, whi
TS>started with the first regular episode.

        But you never explained.

TS>I've dealt with Jimmy D before.  He made the Trek echos into a free-fire
TS>zone after a year, and he's about median as far as Trekkies go.

        The BBS I'm on doesn't get the Trek echo.

-=-
 * OLX 2.2 * "Speak to live psychics!" Nah, lemme talk to a DEAD one!

--- SLMAIL v3.5C  (#1540)
 * Origin: Robotech þ Lake City's Music*Demo BBS þ [904] 758*9477 (1:3600/7)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 115 of 441
 From : Glenn Shaheen                       1:3600/7        .pä 03 .þë 96 19:05
 To   : All
 Subj : ID4
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
-<SPOILER WARNING>-






























        No Wonder the aliens lost, they used computers compatible with
Macs. Great movie though.
-=-
 * OLX 2.2 * When correctly viewed, EVERYTHING is lewd.

--- SLMAIL v3.5C  (#1540)
 * Origin: Robotech þ Lake City's Music*Demo BBS þ [904] 758*9477 (1:3600/7)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 116 of 441
 From : Paul Worley                         1:2601/515      .ÿò 05 .þë 96 21:02
 To   : Darre LuAllen
 Subj : Genre Music + ID4 verdic
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Hello Darre!

03 Jul 96 10:30, Darre LuAllen wrote to All:

 DL>      The name of the band is Glass Hammer.  For those of you who
 DL> have heard of them, then you know this.  Their first album was
 DL> wholly inspired by the _Lord of the Rings_.  Their second album
 DL> is not a conceptual affair, but it does have some good stuff on
 DL> it.  They have also formed several splinter groups, such as a
 DL> band called Wizards.
 DL>      Their style is Progressive Rock, very similar in aspect to
 DL> bands like Jethro Tull, Yes and Renaissance.  They play very few
 DL> live shows, one of which is Dragon*Con.  A couple of their
 DL> members have also recorded an album called "The Lair of the Wurm"
 DL> which is touted as a "Soundtrack to Roleplaying".  The music,
 DL> IMHO, is really good for just that.

I was in Atlanta last Year for DragonCon. That was the first I had heard of
them, and I thought they were just a local band. Maybe with our talking about
them, they'll get a little more exposure!!  (plug, plug!)

Yes, the do follow the likes of Tull and Yes, both of which I grew up listening
to as a kid. I like Glass Hammer and hope to hear then soon!

Paul

--- GoldED 2.42.G0614
 * Origin: USS Wolf - Wheatland, PA  (1:2601/515)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 117 of 441
 From : Lis Carey                           1:101/230       .åò 04 .þë 96 06:18
 To   : Bob Klahn
 Subj : B5 RENEWED
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
BK> LC> This is really rather pointlessly unfriendly of you. I don't like
BK> LC> SEINFELD, which makes me downright unAmerican, as far as I can tell, an
BK> LC> I do get tired of people raving about it - but I don't go around wishin
BK> LC> it would get cancelled; I just don't watch it.

BK> Hmmm.. and I was beginning to think I was the only one.

Oh, thank God! There's two of us! :)

BK> OTOH, I'm still in shock over SAAB. If B5 went I'd really be down.

BK> Even though I do watch the ST stuff, and it's not as bad as some people,
BK> myself sometimes included, intimate, it's not as good as B5. But even those
BK> who think ST is the ultimate should appreciate haveing *some* SF that isn't
BK> ST related on TV.

I like Trek, I like B5, I liked SAAB. I do think B5 is the best, but
SAAB had real potential, if only it had been given more time.

 * OLX 2.1 TD * This tagline stolen by Off-Line Xpress!

--- FLAME v1.0
 * Origin: Withouta Net - Drop In Anytime! - 617/846-5416 (1:101/230)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 118 of 441
 From : Darre LuAllen                       1:3637/1        .åò 04 .þë 96 15:16
 To   : Kay Shapero
 Subj : cancelled
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 On 07-02-96 Kay Shapero wrote to Glenn Shaheen...

 GS>        And since I don't watch B5 much, I was basing my opinion
 GS>of their CGI on Space: Above and Beyond, whose CGI jes plain
 GS>sucks.

 KS> Fascinating.  Did you ever hear the story of the man who was crawling
 KS> about on the ground under a street lamp, one night? [...]

 <story delete so I don't have to pay royalties for the reprint>

 That was great!  I personally tire of all the "my show is better than
 your show" arguements that occur in fandom.  However, it is when someone
 is intend upon hating a show or story without ever giving it a chance,
 my injustice meter goes off the scale.

 It really reminds me of Galeleo (sp?) on trial for discovering that
 the Earth revolves around the sun.  When he presented his telescope
 for the court and offered to show them how it worked, one of the
 bishops said that he didn't want to look because he might have to
 believe.  I accuse no one of this, but this brand of closemindedness
 is so ridiculous when it comes "intelligent fans."  Personally, I think
 your parable was quite clear and very funny.


 BTW, was this too "up on the soapbox"?  I can never tell.

                                                At your Service,

                                                Darre LuAllen
___
 * OFFLINE 1.56 * "And I babble on and on and on..." B. Boxlietner

--- Maximus/2 3.01
 * Origin: Cumberland BBS -TN- V34 (1:3637/1)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 119 of 441
 From : Darre LuAllen                       1:3637/1        .åò 04 .þë 96 15:37
 To   : Michael Harper
 Subj : B5 Renewed
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 On 07-03-96 Michael Harper wrote to Bob Klahn...

 LC> This is really rather pointlessly unfriendly of you. I don't like
 LC> SEINFELD, which makes me downright unAmerican, as far as I can tell, and
 LC> I do get tired of people raving about it - but I don't go around wishing
 LC> it would get cancelled; I just don't watch it.

 BK> Hmmm.. and I was beginning to think I was the only one.

 MH>  Hey, I can take or leave Seinfeld. There are usually better things to
 MH>  watch. Although Julia Louis-Dreyfus is a serious babe, the rest of the
 MH>  show doesn't really interest me.

 Seinfeld?  Isn't he some sort of stand up comic?

 BK> OTOH, I'm still in shock over SAAB. If B5 went I'd really be down.

 MH>  I missed the season finale. Has Fox pulled the plug?

 As an ex-Marine, I had a few problems with the SAAB, but on the whole I
 liked it.  It was just different enough to keep my attention.  I will be
 sad to see it go.  BTW, why name a show such that the initials spell a
 car's name?  Hum.  Perhaps it was just a matter of marketing that killed
 our show.

 BK> Even though I do watch the ST stuff, and it's not as bad as some
 BK> people, myself sometimes included, intimate, it's not as good as B5.
 BK> But even those who think ST is the ultimate should appreciate haveing
 BK> *some* SF that isn't ST related on TV.

 MH>  The problem, insofar as I can tell, is one of tunnelvision. The real

   <deleted for brevity>

 Yes.  Most of the die hard SF fans have their favorites and don't need
 to attack other shows.  However, it is the fanatic groups which seem to
 have the loudest voices.  Even SF conventions do this.  At the recent
 Dragon*con, Trek had it's own programming track.  One of the panels was
 "B5 and DS9: Seperated at Birth?".  Unfortunately, I missed the panel so
 I can only talk about the impression it left on me.  I was irritated that
 the con organizers were creating panels that would put shows head-to-head
 like that.  Comparason is one thing, but some of this goes too far.  On
 both sides.  BTW, if anyone attended the panel, I'd love to hear what was
 discussed.


 If it matters, I'll tell anyone interested what my favorites are if asked.

 MH>  The problem is the studios. Paramount will attack anything that
 MH>  threatens its cash cow. Warner really doesn't know what they've got

   <deleted for brevity, the sequel>

 Yes.  Not only in SF, but in all TV programming, networks and studios
 are in some stupid ratings war.  From SF to sitcoms even to pro-wrestling,
 the suits are under the mistaken impression that we viewers are going
 to be loyal to ONE station.  That is so stupid.  I have 40 some odd
 channels on my cable box which I pay hard stolen money for.  I'm not
 going to watch just one of them.  Has anyone considered the idea of
 putting their shows on at different times from those of another
 network?  Imagine the boost it would give both shows if Forever Night
 had advertised during Kindred and vice versa.  What if Babylon 5 had such
 an arrangement with SAAB?  Now here's a toughie:  If Voyager and DS9 are
 put out by the same people, then why don't they cross advertise?  I mean,
 regardless of what network they are on, Paramount would really only help
 itself if both shows did well.  And the typical station carrying DS9 does
 not care where the ad money comes from.  The suits are so blind, it's
 stupid.

                                                At your Service,
                                                Darre LuAllen

___
 * OFFLINE 1.56 * Just remember, the *bull* doesn't know that he's suppose to
lose.

--- Maximus/2 3.01
 * Origin: Cumberland BBS -TN- V34 (1:3637/1)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 120 of 441
 From : Bob Klahn                           1:234/2         .ÿò 05 .þë 96 22:37
 To   : Nicolai Shapero
 Subj : CANCELLED
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 BK>> How about, the Shadows are not an elder race at all, but a
 BK>>servant race
 BK>> developed by the Vorlons who developed their independence long
 BK>>ago, and now
 BK>> seek to enslave where they were slaves.

 NS> Nope.  It's been stated that the Shadows are older than the First Ones.
 NS>  And the Vorlons are one of the few remaining First Ones in the local
 NS>  neighborhood.

 Yes, but...a nice plot twist would be for that to turn out to be a lie. The
 shadows would spread that lie to demoralize the enemy, and the Vorlons would
 not correct it because, either they don't want to reveal their guilt, or
 they just don't know. The Shadows may be older than the Vorlons yet still
 not as old as they claim.

 As to the First Ones, how would anyone know? The ones we know could be the
 13th ones and *we* would have no way of knowing. The 'First Ones' may not
 consider it, or us, important enough to correct the error, and the Vorlons
 may not know, again. After all, the Vorlons seem to be on the bottom rung of
 the 'First Ones'. I find it much more interesting to think there are more
 things out there, "In heaven and earth," than we dream of.

BOB KLAHN

... Start a download.  Get a beer.  Multitasking!
 * Silver Xpress V4.3P RB10275

--- FLAME v1.1
 * Origin: Telnet toltbbs.com or call 313-854-6001, Boardwatch #55 (1:234/2)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 121 of 441
 From : Jared Callanan                      1:324/127       .ÿò 05 .þë 96 12:50
 To   : All
 Subj : Id4
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE 1.11+
 Hello All i saw Independence day a few nights ago Here is ym reaction:
       The Movie was full of comedians, every actor in the movie was either a
comedian or a former sitcom star. This movie made me mad because its supposed to
be all bad ya know. The aliens are supposed to be destroying the world but Fresh
Prince and all the others were trying to make this movie into a Comedy! And that
made me mad.. There were many good scenes dont get me wrong but i exspected it
to be so muc better! I Personally hated it.
   Now I saw the movie "The Arrival" Which was along the same things
(ufos/aliens) But this movie was great it had some action in it and had alot of
sci-fi in it. CHarlie Sheen did a excellent job! I waould tell all you big time
sci-fi people to go see this movie over ID4!
 Thanks,
Jared Callanan

---
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Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 122 of 441
 From : Kay Shapero                         1:102/524       .ÿò 05 .þë 96 06:51
 To   : Leman Russ
 Subj : Re: Cancelled
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Jul 02 04:42>, Leman Russ (1:2250/7) wrote to Brandon Wolgast:

 LR> And I don't care what rational is given, the shadows are evil.
 LR>They have attacked without provocation, committed mass murder and
 LR>have used living beings as unwilling parts oftheir ships, so that
 LR>makesthem evil and I don't  care how they explain it. I am
 LR>curious as to why they didthese things, but they cannot be
 LR>explained away.
>:[

Well, JMS has said we will know why they've done what they did, and even
predicted that about a third of the audience will agree with them!  Now I'm
REALLY anxious to see the last 5 episodes of this season.....

--- msged 2.06
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Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 123 of 441
 From : Kay Shapero                         1:102/524       .ÿò 05 .þë 96 06:52
 To   : Leman Russ
 Subj : Re: B5 tech
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Jul 02 04:59>, Leman Russ (1:2250/7) wrote to Kay Shapero:

 LR> The vorlons did prevent deathwalker from destroyinbg humanity
 LR>with her "gift" of immortality, and kosh did sacrifice himself.
 LR>Of course they could just be playaying a chess game withthe
 LR>shadows so itmight not count as what humans would consider good.

And Kosh is one individual; imagine the fun of predicting what the entire human
race is based on one individual human.

 LR> That race of slugs that occupied human bodies to preserve
 LR>knowledge was fairly saintly, according to the man who carried
 LR>one and then spoke after it left. They maybe the oy "saints"
 LR>inthe B5 universe....

Not so much "saintly", as simply dedicated to a specific purpose, and thus not
distracted by things like greed or hate.  Pleasant company, certainly, and
unlikely to harm anyone intentionally.  They were genuinely distressed when
things went wrong, and I got the impression this was not just because of the
death of the slugbeing, but also for the wouldbe host.

I envision them being among the first to greet the TechnoMages when the latter
return.  I think they'd get along rather nicely.

 LR> We have seen nothing from the soulhunters since the one ep,
 LR>which I think was one ofthe worst ever, and a lot of B5 fhans
 LR>agreed with me onthe echo, but they haveapparently obeyed
 LR>sinclairs injuction so they may not be obnoxious about things.

From what I've heard, JMS also agrees with you about that episode.  Mind you,
that was one of the very first.

 LR> Any other ideas on B5 races, as judged by human standards?
>:[

Well, the humans haven't changed particularly since nowadays (not a flaw imho -
while you could try and come up with a description of what things will *really*
be like on the other side of the singularity, it wouldn't have much relevance
for the time period in which the show is actually being produced).

The Markab have, alas, managed to illustrate evolution in action.

I kinda like the Pak'ma'ra, even if they do seem to be the comic relief (of
course so did Londo in the first season...) though wonder why a scavenger
species needed to develop intelligence in the first place.  Their homeworld must
be an interesting place.

The Centauri appear to resemble humanity strongly.  Whether or not there's
something we haven't seen yet where they sharply diverge is an open question.

(One thing you might want to remember - the story isn't over yet.  You don't
expect to find out whodunnit halfway through "The Mousetrap", or what the
dwarves & Bilbo are going to do about Smaug halfway through "The Hobbit".
Motives yet to be revealed are not motives non-existant.  And what looks like a
stereotype may not be when you see it from a different angle.)

--- msged 2.06
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Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 124 of 441
 From : Kay Shapero                         1:102/524       .ÿò 05 .þë 96 13:07
 To   : All
 Subj : Oops...
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Jul 05 06:52>, Kay Shapero (1:102/524) wrote to Leman Russ:

 LR> We have seen nothing from the soulhunters since the one ep,
 LR>which I think was one ofthe worst ever, and a lot of B5 fhans
 LR>agreed with me onthe echo, but they haveapparently obeyed
 LR>sinclairs injuction so they may not be obnoxious about things.

 KS>From what I've heard, JMS also agrees with you about that
 KS>episode.  Mind you, that was one of the very first.

Oops - misremembered: it was "Infection" that JMS likes the least.  The one
where the alien whatsit turned some poor soul into a warmech and Sinclair pulled
a Jim Kirk and talked him to death.  Ah well, "Soulhunter" was the second
episode of the first season, and "Infection" only the fourth.  Things improve
over time.  (Continuity, however, is continuity - witness the fact that Adira
Tyree, whom Londo became involved with in the third episode, "Born to the
Purple", and who left the station in that episode figures prominently, if
ironically in a recent episode.)

(Yes, as it happens I *do* have a list of all the episodes to date in a handy
file on the system I'm writing this on.  :->)

--- msged 2.06
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Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 125 of 441
 From : Nicolai Shapero                     1:102/524       .ÿò 05 .þë 96 15:13
 To   : Bob Klahn
 Subj : CANCELLED
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Jul 03 17:30>, Bob Klahn (1:234/2) wrote to Nicolai Shapero:

 BK> We did not start the war, we just, well, I was going to say,
 BK>"won it", but
 BK> we really didn't. We just chased the Iraqis out of Kuwait.

By definition, we won.

 NS> (They may well be proven to be evil in the end, but it's by no means

 BK> They may not be evil in the end, but that's the way I'm betting.

We shall see.  Remember, though, "no one is what they appear to be" on Babylon
5...

-- Nicolai Shapero, the Mad Russian Sysop of StormGate Aerie

--- msged 2.06
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Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 126 of 441
 From : Nicolai Shapero                     1:102/524       .ÿò 05 .þë 96 15:15
 To   : Leman Russ
 Subj : Re: Cancelled
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Jul 02 04:37>, Leman Russ (1:2250/7) wrote to Brandon Wolgast:

 LR> The moderator saidmentioning trekwas agiansttherules, but only
 LR>enforced this against people who criticized trek bashers.

 LR> BTW, how long is Bolacks "Banned for life" list now? 3 megs?

This particular moderator does not appreciate slams against moderators of other
conferences, when they are not here to see (much less respond to) the possible
libels.

Please refrain from this behavior in future, Leman.

-- Nicolai Shapero, Moderator of the SFFAN echo

--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 127 of 441
 From : Nicolai Shapero                     1:102/524       .ÿò 05 .þë 96 15:17
 To   : Leman Russ
 Subj : Re: Cancelled
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Jul 02 04:42>, Leman Russ (1:2250/7) wrote to Brandon Wolgast:

 LR> And I don't care what rational is given, the shadows are evil.
 LR>They have attacked without provocation, committed mass murder and
 LR>have used living beings as unwilling parts oftheir ships, so that
 LR>makesthem evil and I don't  care how they explain it. I am
 LR>curious as to why they didthese things, but they cannot be
 LR>explained away.

1.  There is no evidence that they attacked without provocation (attacked, yes.
But without provocation?  Unproven.)

2.  "Committed mass murder"?  Carried out military maneuvers, persuant to a war.
Killing during war differs from murder.

3.  "Used living beings as unwilling parts of their ships"?  No evidence that
their "pilots" were unwilling.  Some evidence that the HUMANS started to provide
the Shadows with, presumably unwilling, pilots.

See?  No need for the Shadows to be evil.  And the facts do bare multiple
interpretations...

-- Nicolai Shapero, the Mad Russian Sysop of StormGate Aerie

--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 128 of 441
 From : Nicolai Shapero                     1:102/524       .ÿò 05 .þë 96 15:20
 To   : Leman Russ
 Subj : Re: cancelled
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Jul 02 04:49>, Leman Russ (1:2250/7) wrote to Jeff Hancock:

 LR> Well, I can see you're a typical BABYlonian, so I'm just goingto
 LR>ignore you and not bother trying to explain anything to you.

You realize, by the by, that this kind of attitude can get you punted from THIS
echo as well?  Play nice, Leman, or go somewhere else.

-- Nicolai Shapero, Moderator of the SFFAN echo


--- msged 2.06
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Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 129 of 441
 From : Frank Swarbrick                     1:104/825       .åò 04 .þë 96 18:53
 To   : Bob Klahn
 Subj : CANCELLED
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12  92-0022
On 07-02-96  22:47, shipwrecked and comatose, Bob Klahn said:

 BK>> sentient species wiped out, and the Enterprise was prepared to stand
 BK>> by and do nothing. Starfleet is not allowed to interfere with the
 BK>> development of any race, even when that development is about to come
 BK>> to a screeching, and permanent, halt.

 BK>> But of course, as Pickard said, that may be their destiny. Screw
 BK>> destiny, do something.

 FS> How absolutely true.  And the real problem is, I don't think that the
 FS> Prime Directive is inherantly wrong.  It's just that Picard's
 FS> interpretation of it was way off base!  The PD is there so we don't
 FS> give less developed races advanced technology that they may perhaps
 FS> misuse and then destroy themselves (or others).  But helping an entire
 FS> planet to survive, come on, what could be wrong with that?  No one
 FS> said that they had to give them any advanced technology or anything.
 FS> Just help them survive so they could continue to develop!

 FS> I hate the theme of that episode soooo much!

 BK> Ok, now that we have that settled, let me move on to the next part.
 BK> Do you recall what happened to the little girl at the end? She was
 BK> brought aboard the Enterprise, and they had a choice as to whether to
 BK> keep her aboard, that is she would disappear as far as her world was
 BK> concerned, or send her back and risk contamination. They chose to wipe
 BK> her memory of what she experienced aboard the Enterprise.

Actually, we're talking about two different episodes.  I was talking
about "Homeward" (seventh season), while you're talking about "Pen
Pals" (second season).  I'm not sure which one the original message
writer was talking about!  Anyway, I hadn't thought about it, but they
are similarly themed.

 BK> As far as I am concerned wiping her memory was the greater crime. The
 BK> child did not ask for it, and was a minor to begin with. To me
 BK> interferring with the person's mind is a greater crime than
 BK> contamination of their culture, or killing the person.

 BK> That was also what happened to Worf's brother if you recall. They
 BK> wiped his memory to keep him from killing himself. Sorry, they are
 BK> trying to tell us the "body" is the "person". I consider the mind much
 BK> more the person. If you kill the mind you have killed the person, so
 BK> why not let the body die? It's not like there's a shortage of live
 BK> bodies walking around. As someone once said, they are turned out by
 BK> unskilled labor who truly enjoy the work.

Definately.  Especially without his permission, and when he committed
no crime.  If he ever finds out Sisko and Worf better watch their
backs!  I'm sure he, Kurn or not, would be outraged!

        Frank

... I'm a creature of habit.  All the bad ones.
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12
 * Origin: The Bailey Information Exchange BBS, 28.8k v.fc  (1:104/825.0)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 130 of 441
 From : Frank Swarbrick                     1:104/825       .åò 04 .þë 96 21:20
 To   : Nicolai Shapero
 Subj : CANCELLED
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12  92-0022
On 07-02-96  09:36, shipwrecked and comatose, Nicolai Shapero said:

 NS> On <Jun 30 13:52>, Bob Klahn (1:234/2) wrote to Nicolai Shapero:

 NS> Oh, JMS has apparently said (I'm getting this second hand at best)
 NS> that if  they don't renew for a fifth season (they've renewed for the
 NS> fourth) he  WILL wrap up the loose ends in season four.  I hope he
 NS> makes it to the  fifth season and closes the arc in a (relatively
 NS> speaking) unhurried  fashion, but it's nice to know that he's keeping
 NS> his options open.

The only problem with this is that they usually don't even get word on
renewal until after the season is over.  So how are they going to
manage this?

They *have* to go the full five!  :-)

        Frank

... "How will this end?"  "In Fire..."
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12
 * Origin: The Bailey Information Exchange BBS, 28.8k v.fc  (1:104/825.0)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 131 of 441
 From : Frank Swarbrick                     1:104/825       .åò 04 .þë 96 21:23
 To   : Nicolai Shapero
 Subj : cancelled
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12  92-0022
On 07-02-96  09:47, shipwrecked and comatose, Nicolai Shapero said:

 NS> On <Jun 29 17:49>, Glenn Shaheen (1:3600/7) wrote to Jeff Hancock:

 NS> Yup.  Like costing far less than models.  As I understand it, the cost
 NS> for  one episode of ST:Voyager is about eight or ten times the cost for
 NS> one  episode of Babylon 5.  And the principal difference in cost is due
 NS> to SFX.  Computer animation, once you get past the initial investment
 NS> (which isn't  all THAT great) is significantly less expensive than
 NS> models.

Weallll, I wouldn't say 8 to 10 times.  From what I hear a B5 episode
is about $600,000, while Voyager is about $2 million.

        Frank

... I just want to be left alone.  Is that so wrooooong?
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12
 * Origin: The Bailey Information Exchange BBS, 28.8k v.fc  (1:104/825.0)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 132 of 441
 From : Owen E. Oulton                      1:243/45        .åò 04 .þë 96 21:10
 To   : Kay Shapero
 Subj : Re: So, How about that Hunchback?
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 KS> On <Jun 30 13:46>, Owen E. Oulton (1:243/45) wrote to Frank Glover:

 OE>What, that the book has an ending which is "not your typical
 OE>Disney happy ending?"  You'll note that Nicolai does not tell us
 OE>how Disney Bowdlerises the ending, just that the book kills
 OE>everyone off.

 KS> Er.. Nicolai didn't tell you anything about it - that was Brian Lienhart.

Sorry, you're right, Nicolai's initials would be NS, not BL, wouldn't they? :-)

I can only state in my defense that...  Hell, I can't say anything at all in my
defense - I have absloutely no idea why I typed Nicolai instead of Brian...
Perhaps in an alternate timeline Nicolai wrote the original message, and Fido
did a Paratime hiccup.  Verkan Vall will be checking the whole thing out as soon
as he arrests Quinn, Wade, Arturo and the Cryin' Man.  Yeah, that's probably
it...  :-)

CFN, O

--- Maximus 2.01wb
 * Origin: Pandora's Box, Ottawa, Ont. 613-829-1209 (1:243/45)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 133 of 441
 From : Owen E. Oulton                      1:243/45        .åò 04 .þë 96 21:16
 To   : Kay Shapero
 Subj : Re: So, How about that Hunchback?
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 OE>20,000 Leagues Under The Sea?  Sighted sub, sank same.

 KS> OOK!  Snicker...

Glad you liked it...

CFN, O

--- Maximus 2.01wb
 * Origin: Pandora's Box, Ottawa, Ont. 613-829-1209 (1:243/45)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 134 of 441
 From : Gerry Normandeau                    1:163/430       .ÿò 05 .þë 96 03:38
 To   : David Johnston
 Subj : B5 Tech
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Standing at the gallows pole David Johnston spat a curse on Kay Shapero,
accusing him of B5 Tech!

 -> I think both sides made some major goofs.  (Think about it - you've
 -> landed on an alien planet and you come across an apparently
 -> intelligent species you've never met before.  You smile, meaning to
 -> indicate friendly intent. Unfortunately, around here, as with almost
 -> every mammal on planet Earth but us, showing your teeth is a threat
 -> gesture.  The alien reacts

 DJ> Actually, it is for us as well.  Smiles send the message "I am not
 DJ> afraid of you or at all worried."

 DJ> -!- PCBoard (R) v15.21/100
 DJ>  ! Origin: Freddy's Place - Edm. AB - 33.6K (403) 413-3460 (1:342/14)

I don't remember, but in that episode did the captain of the earth ship ever
even try to contact the Mimbari ship and ask "Just why do you have your weapons
out and pointed at us for?" Did either side ever try to contact the other?
Even in the series when the mimbari ship came into B5's space with it's weapons
out in honour of it's dead, no one had any idea that it was a sign of honour.
But the commander hailed the vessel and asked why.
Here's a fine hody-do! The humans, even years after the war still had no idea
why the mimbari have there guns out, and no other race even bothered to tell
them! Talk about the mother of all diplomatic F*&# ups!

                         cn754@Carlton.Freenet.ca


... "*BLAM!* *BLAM!*  Make peck'ular patterns in my wheat field, will ya?!

--- Maximus 2.01wb
 * Origin: Watership Down BBS, Kanata , ON (1:163/430)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 135 of 441
 From : Gerry Normandeau                    1:163/430       .ÿò 05 .þë 96 03:38
 To   : Glenn Shaheen
 Subj : cancelled
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Standing at the gallows pole Glenn Shaheen spat a curse on Jeff Hancock,
accusing him of cancelled!

 JH>LR> I didn't feel that B7 should be compared to trek,

 JH>Why, did Trek continually suffer in comparison?  <G>
 GS> To Blake's 7? Gaagh!

Some one acctualy tried to compare Trek with Blake's 7? That's like trying to
compair Dr. Who to Dr. Quinn. Just can't be done. :P

                         cn754@Carlton.Freenet.ca


... "As a computer, I find your faith in technology amusing."

--- Maximus 2.01wb
 * Origin: Watership Down BBS, Kanata , ON (1:163/430)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 136 of 441
 From : Owen E. Oulton                      1:243/45        .ÿò 05 .þë 96 16:00
 To   : Frank Swarbrick
 Subj : Sliders Actually Decent!
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 FS> BTW, anyone who didn't get that Kromags were Cro-Magnon man after the
 FS> first, oh, few seconds <G>, well......  :-)

Well, the name was obviously derived from Cro Magnon, but the Kromags themselves
weren't.  Cro Magnon (h. sapiens cro magnon) was a fully modern human, and would
be completely indistinguishable from the average person on the street without
dissection.  Indeed, even Neanderthal (h. sapiens neanderthanlensis) wouldn't
look all that odd compared to, say, Ernest Borgnine.

The Kromags in Sliders were actually descended from a completely different
branch of the proto-simian family tree, based loosely on current anthropological
theory that there were a number of species and subspecies which could, given the
proper circumstances, have intelligence.

CFN, O

--- Maximus 2.01wb
 * Origin: Pandora's Box, Ottawa, Ont. 613-829-1209 (1:243/45)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 137 of 441
 From : Kevin van Houten                    1:124/7012.1701 .óá 06 .þë 96 09:14
 To   : Bill Hedrick
 Subj : Re: B5 Renewed
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.MOOD: Ok..for a Klingon }}|{I>

 BH> hee! Glenn, Todd's so much a Trek fan that he's a Klingon.....

Ha!

Oh...sorry. Imagining the Todd Sullivan on TREK_HUMOR_FILK as a Klingon.

<znerk>

Sincerely,

Kevin L. van Houten
kvanho01@eng.eds.com
1:124/7012.1701

Posted to Bill Hedrick on Saturday, July 6, 1996 at 9:16


... "NO Clogging on the Promenade!" - Todd Sullivan
--- Terminate 4.00
 * Origin: Rawhide Creek Brewpub, Texas Sector, TEROK NOR (1:124/7012.1701)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 138 of 441
 From : Leman Russ                          1:2250/7        .åò 04 .þë 96 04:56
 To   : Lis Carey
 Subj : Re: CANCELLED
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 But now it turns out that Gowron is a changeling and that's why the klingons
are onthew warpath again, tosoften upthe alpha quadrant for a changeling
invasion.

 At times I thinkthe feds should just collapse the wormhole and be done with it.
I hopethe borg gettheir hands o nthe changelingsm it'dserve them right. MAybe
they'd annihilate each other.

>:[

--- DLG Pro v1.0/DLGMail
 * Origin: Sage's Tower - Amiga - (618) 259-1844 (1:2250/7)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 139 of 441
 From : Leman Russ                          1:2250/7        .åò 04 .þë 96 04:59
 To   : All
 Subj : Japanese SF
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 There's a lotof good SF out there in the form of Japanese Anime and mangas that
I guess people don;t access because I never see anyone here but me discussing
it, and that's a shame because they've got some good stuff that shouldn't be
missed.

 MAybe some people think that all japanese stuff is onthelevel of "ultraman" "
or "speed racer". That's as unfair as assuming all american SF is like "Lost in
space". There's some good manga/anime and some bad, but the good has a better
ratio , in my opinion, that American TV does.

 So I really recomend that people here maybe look into some japanese SF, you
might be pleasantly surprised. I suggest a trip to blockbuster video and renting
"Ghost inthe shell". It's notperfect, needing t obe about 5 minutes longer, but
is pretty damn good as is.

>:[

--- DLG Pro v1.0/DLGMail
 * Origin: Sage's wer - Amiga - (618) 259-1844 (1:2250/7)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 140 of 441
 From : Gary Warren                         1:382/92.7      .óá 06 .þë 96 14:40
 To   : Kay Shapero
 Subj : So, How about that Hunchback?
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On (04 Jul 96) Kay Shapero wrote to Ken Mayes...

 KS> On <Jul 02 10:10>, Ken Mayes (1:393/7@fido) wrote to Frank Glover:

 KM>        Somebody stop Disney before they adapt Schindler's List
 KM>to an animated musical!

 KS> A friend of mine named Lee Gold wrote a song entitled "Hamlet by
 KS> Disney"
 KS> which is a real hoot.  I know she's publishing it in one of her filk
 KS> zines; anybody who wants to know the details send me netmail and I'll
 KS> let
 KS> you know when it's out.


My wife also noted it's just a matter of time before Disney turns mass
murderers such as Manson and Dahmer into cute animated characters with
their own whimsical films.  Delightful, no?  ;)



glw


--- PPoint 1.90
 * Origin: Gary's Bar and Grill (1:382/92.7)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 141 of 441
 From : Frank Glover                        1:2613/477      .óá 06 .þë 96 15:33
 To   : Jeff Hancock
 Subj : Re: CANCELLED
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

JH>  LC>Except that now we know that Gowron is actually a Changeling...I'd
JH>  LC>look for further developments, here. Including a possible reason
JH>  why
JH>  LC>TPTB didn't actually kill off Kurn.:)
JH>
JH>  Assuming he's been a Changeling for that long.

   Very good point. Was he infiltrated in virtually from day one? Or did someone
recently grab/kill the real Gowron, and slip in an impostor? And if so, how long
ago?

   Frank


--- QuickBBS 2.80 GoldBase (Zeta-2.0a)
 * Origin: The Matrix Data Bank BBS, Rochester, Ny (1:2613/477)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 142 of 441
 From : Frank Glover                        1:2613/477      .óá 06 .þë 96 15:40
 To   : Mark Jones
 Subj : Re: cancelled
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

MJ>     You're entitled to your opinion.  If you like model work better
MJ>  than CGI, fine.  But whining about the "unrealistic" sharpness of
MJ>  shadows in CGI space scenes is sad.

   Agreed. In 2001, where they didn't have the technology (in fact, even their
graphic screens were hand-drawn animation masquerading as computer graphics)
Kubrick was very careful about getting the lighting right. And in the last
season or two, ST:TNG had a number of scenes with a sharply lit Enterprise. And
I thought it worked rather well.

   Frank


--- QuickBBS 2.80 GoldBase (Zeta-2.0a)
 * Origin: The Matrix Data Bank BBS, Rochester, Ny (1:2613/477)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 143 of 441
 From : Frank Glover                        1:2613/477      .óá 06 .þë 96 15:46
 To   : Darre LuAllen
 Subj : Re: B5 Renewed
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

DL>   sad to see it go.  BTW, why name a show such that the initials spell
DL>  a
DL>   car's name?  Hum.  Perhaps it was just a matter of marketing that
DL>  killed
DL>   our show.

   But only people like us will look for the acronym in a TV/movie's name,
anyway. Mostly to save our poor fingers.

   God, what if "The Effect of Gamma Rays on Man in the Moon Marigolds" had been
SF?

   Frank


--- QuickBBS 2.80 GoldBase (Zeta-2.0a)
 * Origin: The Matrix Data Bank BBS, Rochester, Ny (1:2613/477)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 144 of 441
 From : Frank Glover                        1:2613/477      .óá 06 .þë 96 15:55
 To   : Leman Russ
 Subj : Re: Japanese SF
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

LR>   There's a lotof good SF out there in the form of Japanese Anime and
LR>  mangas that I guess people don;t access because I never see anyone
LR>  here but me discussing it, and that's a shame because they've got
LR>  some good stuff that shouldn't be missed.

   Although there are Anime-specific echoes, it *does* get discussed here from
time to time. Jump in with something.

   Frank


--- QuickBBS 2.80 GoldBase (Zeta-2.0a)
 * Origin: The Matrix Data Bank BBS, Rochester, Ny (1:2613/477)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 145 of 441
 From : Gerry Normandeau                    1:163/430       .ÿò 05 .þë 96 21:21
 To   : Henry Triplett
 Subj : Ds9-Wotw
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Standing at the gallows pole Henry Triplett spat a curse on Gerry Normandeau,
accusing him of DS9-WOTW!

 -=> Quoting Gerry Normandeau to Glenn Shaheen <=-

 GS>         Cardassians haven't done much lately but the Klingons are a
 GS> different story. I think the best space battle I've ever seen on TV was
 GS> where the 50 or so Klingon ships attacked DS9. Pretty cool.

 GN> COOL!? That has got to be the most inepedt battle I have ever seen!
 HT>
 HT> Amen, bruddah.  AMEN!!

 HT> <snip>

 GN> If the Klingons were in any way handeled in any realistic fashon they
 GN> woyld  have whiped the feds in less than an hour. And don't point out
 HT>
 HT> You could devote an entire echo to discussing how poor the Klingon
 HT> battle  strategies were in this episode.  I especially noticed how some
 HT> (many) of the Klingon ships couldn't be bothered to waste energy by
 HT> actually *firing* at the station as they flew by.  Ditto for
 HT> maneuvering!
 HT> And I guess they were chowing down on gagh or something while the
 HT> Defiant   was docking with DS9 and Sisko and friends were making their
 HT> way to their stations.  It seems like that would have been a good time
 HT> to be shooting at  either the Defiant and/or DS9.

Yes. A friend of mine plays Star Trek the RPG. In the senerio he was in he took
five ships into Bajorin space and dumped over onehundred cloaked self propelled
mines. He then went over to the station and beamed abord a gravetic mine into
the command section. Unfortunatly the command crew were off doing somthing else.
He did more damage with his one little fleet than the whole armada!

 GN> defences. Any good warrior knows this. Don't get me wrong I am totaly
 GN> pro Klingon. Its this bull that the wrighters come up with sets my
 GN> teath grinding. Thus ends my tirade!
 HT>
 HT> As a Trek/Klingon fan from way back, I agree.  But you ended (your
 HT> tirade)  way too soon.

The other problem I have is with the episode where the sword of the first
emperor was found. I will tell you if it was up to me I would have gone and
taken the sword and buried it in that Pretender on the thrown's skull and take
the Empire! A Clone on the thrown! NEVER!!! By Feclar I as a Klingon would never
stand for that! The empire has never been the same since Kem'Pek died. :(

In the RPG campain we played the Klingon empire. I can tell you it was run
the right way! :)



... "As Canadian as possible ... under the circumstances."

--- Maximus 2.01wb
 * Origin: Watership Down BBS, Kanata , ON (1:163/430)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 146 of 441
 From : Glenn Shaheen                       1:3600/7        .åò 04 .þë 96 18:59
 To   : Jeff Hancock
 Subj : cancelled
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.GMD: 1:396/1

JH>An attack on a spyplane with a military pilot is one thing (it WAS
JH>invading their airspace, and the U.S. would rather not have had it
JH>publicized in any event), while an attack on a space station with
JH>civilian innocents and which was not invading anyone's terrority is
JH>quite another.

        I was trying to say that neither side wished complete
annhilation over one incident.

JH>This argument has gotten absolutely pointless. I'll say it one last
JH>time: You just think it looks real because that's what you're used to
JH>seeing.  End Of Debate.

        You haven't changed my mind.

JH>Yes, which is why B5 at least has automated cleanup droids patrolling
JH>the nearby region to clean up debris before someone runs into it and
JH>punches a hole in their ship.  That should apply to the dust too, if
JH>it's in sufficient quantities to be detected.

        But if it isn't than it would still affect the way you see
things.


JH>You never hear about it with Trek, but then they have those low-power
JH>deflectors which magically take care of it.  (did anyone ever explain
JH>why shields stop transporters and deflectors don't?)

        Because the deflectors are low power.

JH>I don't even know what ID4 uses, but computers seem very likely, for
JH>enhancement if not total generation.  I'll bet it certainly couldn't
JH>have been done a few years ago without taking a helluva lot longer.

        Ahem, they did use MODELS. Models for up close shots and
computers for far away.

JH>GS>        But you can take the suspension out with... um... computers.

JH>Easier not to have it there in the first place.  And the number of
JH>Starfuries they've blown up...  The modelling cost would be
JH>astronomical.

        But it looks better with models than computers, so they would
have to have it there.
-=-
 * OLX 2.2 * It's the little old tagline from Pasadena. <vroom, vroom>

--- SLMAIL v3.5C  (#1540)
 * Origin: Robotech þ Lake City's Music*Demo BBS þ [904] 758*9477 (1:3600/7)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 147 of 441
 From : Glenn Shaheen                       1:3600/7        .åò 04 .þë 96 19:06
 To   : Nicolai Shapero
 Subj : cancelled
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.GMD: 1:396/1

NS>No, he's seen all the pictures taken by real astronauts.  And there's not
NS>enough "dust" up there to scatter light.  Take up physics.

        Yes, but there aren't many space vehicles and battles up there
to cause the dust.

NS>Yup.  Like costing far less than models.  As I understand it, the cost fo
NS>one episode of ST:Voyager is about eight or ten times the cost for one
NS>episode of Babylon 5.  And the principal difference in cost is due to SFX
NS>Computer animation, once you get past the initial investment (which isn't
NS>all THAT great) is significantly less expensive than models.

        I made a Star Wars movie once, and I bet it cost alot less than
the original 3.
-=-
 * OLX 2.2 * Allow me to fast-forward to my final rebuttal-"PTHBBPBT!"

--- SLMAIL v3.5C  (#1540)
 * Origin: Robotech þ Lake City's Music*Demo BBS þ [904] 758*9477 (1:3600/7)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 148 of 441
 From : Glenn Shaheen                       1:3600/7        .åò 04 .þë 96 19:18
 To   : Todd Sullivan
 Subj : Put up or shut up.
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

TS>All right, I'll pick up the gauntlet.

TS>Since you seem to be an expert, let's hear those limitations.

        Everything is too smooth, the ships move too smoothly, all of
        the same kind of ships look exactly the same, space is too
        bright, the explosions aren't big enough, and the ships and
        stations look fake.

TS>In other words, I'm calling your bluff.

        I wouldn't argue something without reason.
-=-
 * OLX 2.2 * Had 1 cup regular, 1 cup decaf; stayed up half the night!

--- SLMAIL v3.5C  (#1540)
 * Origin: Robotech þ Lake City's Music*Demo BBS þ [904] 758*9477 (1:3600/7)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 149 of 441
 From : Brandon Wolgast                     1:363/281       .óá 06 .þë 96 14:09
 To   : Leman Russ
 Subj : Cancelled
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE/32 1.2

LR> Well, maybe the vorlons are not the good guys, but they are set upto be suc
LR>because Kosh sacrificed himself to fight he shadows, andthe shadows are evil
LR>plain and simple.

So, because Kosh sacrificed himself they are the good guys?  Remember
the Narn/Shadow battle in "The Long, Twilight Struggle?"  Well if you
watch closely a small Shadow fighter rams a Narn ship, destroying it's
engine, does that then make the Shadows good guys because one was
willing to sacrifice itself?

LR> And I don't care what rational is given, the shadows are evil. They have
LR>attacked without provocation, committed mass murder and have used living bei
LR>as unwilling parts oftheir ships, so that makesthem evil and I don't  care h
LR>they explain it. I am curious as to why they didthese things, but they canno
LR>be explained away.

Okay, do you spray your house for termites, ants, or just pests in
general?  If so, you sure are killing a LOT of things, showing no
remorse, attacking without provocation and comiting mass murder.  Are
you not?  Of course, to you they are just "ants."

Well during the first season G'Kar said that same thing to Sinclairs
girlfriend, that we are just "ants" to the older races.  Remember the
Shadows are BILLIONS upon billions of years old, we as humans now are
what, two million or something, a little more perhaps.  Perhaps they are
just exterminatig us because we annoy them. (I doubt that highly but we
will find out and I hope you get my point).

Brandon

***
 * OLX 2.1 * Backup not found: (A)bort (R)etry (P)anic

--- Use the FORCE!!!
 * Origin: Feduberator * STAR WARS Support * (407)381-2798 (1:363/281)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 150 of 441
 From : Bob Klahn                           1:234/2         .óá 06 .þë 96 09:39
 To   : Henry Triplett
 Subj : CGI VS MODELS
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 GS>> Ohhhh. And you've been in space. There is space dust, however,
 GS>> which would scatter the light.

 HT> I doubt if he's been into space, but that is irrelevant.  NASA has huge
 HT> numbers of photos which back up his point.  Space dust is *extremely*
 HT> rarified.

 "Dense" clouds of dust in space are thinner than thin vacuums on Earth.

 They only get really thick when they start condensing.

 A point Voyager's producers should be made aware of.

 HT> example of this is in DS9's "Way of the Warrior."  A Klingon cruiser
 HT> gets plastered by a photon barrage and the rear of the ship drops and
 HT> dangles *straight down* for a moment before a flash of light removes it
 HT> from view. I can't imagine that happening to a ship in zero G.  Also,
 HT> you end up seeing

 I suspect that is more due to the production people not thinking in terms
 of zero-g rather than an inherent fault in using models.

Bob Klahn

... Evolution makes sense only if there *is* a God.
 * Silver Xpress V4.02B03 RB10275

--- FLAME v1.1
 * Origin: Telnet toltbbs.com or call 313-854-6001, Boardwatch #55 (1:234/2)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 151 of 441
 From : Bob Klahn                           1:234/2         .óá 06 .þë 96 15:40
 To   : Michael Harper
 Subj : B5 RENEWED
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 MH> While sipping a dry martini, Bob Klahn told Lis Carey about B5
 MH> RENEWED...
 LC>> This is really rather pointlessly unfriendly of you. I don't like
 LC>> SEINFELD, which makes me downright unAmerican, as far as I can tell, and
 LC>> I do get tired of people raving about it - but I don't go around wishing
 LC>> it would get cancelled; I just don't watch it.

 BK>> Hmmm.. and I was beginning to think I was the only one.

 MH>  Hey, I can take or leave Seinfeld. There are usually better things to
 MH>  watch. Although Julia Louis-Dreyfus is a serious babe, the rest of the
 MH>  show doesn't really interest me.

 You dirty old man, knew there had to be something good to say about you.

 BK>> OTOH, I'm still in shock over SAAB. If B5 went I'd really be down.

 MH>  I missed the season finale. Has Fox pulled the plug?

 That's the word. I missed it also. Hope the locals re-run it.

 BK>> Even though I do watch the ST stuff, and it's not as bad as some
 BK>> people, myself sometimes included, intimate, it's not as good as B5.
 BK>> But even those who think ST is the ultimate should appreciate haveing
 BK>> *some* SF that isn't ST related on TV.

 MH>  The problem, insofar as I can tell, is one of tunnelvision. The real
 MH>  diehard Trekkies feel threatened by B5; it infringes on their turf, and
 MH>  they're just immature enough to think that their franchise is the
 MH>  be-all and end-all in television skiffy. Those of us who watch all of

 Yeah, a lot of Trekkies are not SF fans in general. Sorry for them, but
 the growth of SF in general is good for Trek in particular.

 MH>  it and keep an open mind are the true Trekkers. Hell, JMS and the rest
 MH>  of the B5 crew watch Trek in all its incarnations, and vice versa. When
 MH>  Trek does a really good episode, B5 calls and compliments them. Trek
 MH>  does the same thing. JMS and Jeri Taylor are good friends, as are most
 MH>  of the people on both shows.

 Respect for the competition is a mark of professionalism. Even in WW2,
 when a major enemy officer was captured the commander would often have him
 over for dinner and drinks.

 MH>  The problem is the studios. Paramount will attack anything that
 MH>  threatens its cash cow. Warner really doesn't know what they've got in
 MH>  B5; they think that it doesn't have a big following because it competes
 MH>  with Trek. But we pestiferous fans don't care about the studios or
 MH>  their bottom lines, until they start to make noises about cancellation.
 MH>  Perverse creatures that we are, we watch both shows, something that no
 MH>  doubt drives them nuts. ;)

 Well, we aren't married to them. My wife might well get upset if I started
 spending my nights with other women, but doesn't get the least disturbed
 if I have conversations with them.

 BK>> ... Benign: What you are after you be eight.
 MH>
 MH>  Nice tag, Bob. Think I'll steal it...

 I did.

 MH> ... If Gene Roddenberry were still alive, he'd be writing for B5!

 And I will, again.

Bob Klahn

... I am Com Port of Borg... you will be asynchronous!.
 * Silver Xpress V4.02B03 RB10275

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Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 152 of 441
 From : Bob Klahn                           1:234/2         .óá 06 .þë 96 15:40
 To   : Jeff Hancock
 Subj : CANCELLED
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
BK>> JH> On the other hand, there is the train of thought that says you
BK>> JH>can't bring something into the world before - or after - society

BK>> I don't really accept that. Any species with intelligence
BK>>approximately that of the human race or above could be brought to the
BK>>level of the human race within one generation. As far as knowledge,
BK>>that is. Infrastructure is another thing.

 JH> I was trying to speak sociologically...  Whenever something new is
 JH> introduced, some will embrace it, others -frequently a majority, it
 JH> seems- will fear it.  If it offers a significant improvement with low
 JH> risk, then it's likely to get adapted quicker, but there will always be
 JH> the neo-Luddites against it.

 Well, I for one feel that, aside from medicine and computers, we haven't
 really advanced a whole lot since the '50s. Of course I know damn well
 that's not true, it's just a feeling.

 JH> Of course, the military mindset would take better weapons as quickly as
 JH> they could get them, but... even in TOS you had Bones hating the
 JH> transporter, and that was relatively proven technology by that time.
 JH> (no, not perfect... it never is. ;)

 Nor is the airplane, the automobile, or walking. You just do the best you
 can. Seems the transporter is a very safe method of transportation.
 Considering how strongly he felt about having his atoms squirted across
 space, how did he ever deal with the thought that on the other side of
 that thin ship skin is total vacuum, about the most hostile enviornment
 imaginable. Floating up there... nobody to help... no escape... just a
 fraction of an inch from certain death... every minute of every hour of
 every day in space.

 JH> You can't change the world overnight, unless you've got the capability
 JH> to brainwash the population, or eliminate the naysayers.  If you can
 JH> offer high gain with minimal risk and not make everyone suspicious of
 JH> getting suckered, then you might do it.  Otherwise...

 Or, if you put them in a position where they have no choice. WW2 as an
 example.

BK>> JH> (and I don't plan to argue over that reasoning either)

<sigh>>  One never plans....

 The best laid plans....often have something to do with gettin laid.

 (Is that tagline material, or what?)

BK>> JH> Perhaps it was a parable to the present, as Trek often is.

BK>> The Bible is full of parables, ST is not the bible. That is what so
BK>>many of us complain about when we say they are preachy.

 JH> Very many shows restate problems of the present by casting them in the
 JH> future.  Even B5 does this.  Fortunately SF usually avoids the "Very
 JH> Special Episode" syndrome.

BK>> We try to preserve those enviornments. Used to be we didn't try, but
BK>>we really didn't even understand that they were dieing off. We try to

 JH> Some of us try.  Remember the Spotted Owl issue?  Disinformation on both
 JH> sides.  If it truly comes down to "them or us" it's one thing, but
 JH> usually it's more like "too much trouble and money for us to help them",

 Absolutely right.

 JH> and ultimately it comes down to what a species is "worth", and what
 JH> terms that comes in.  To some, any life is precious beyond value (never
 JH> mind that survival of the fittest and killing for survival is a basic
 JH> natural trait), to others, it's only worth what you can exploit it for.

 Again, right.

BK>>them so vigorously you can go to prison for killing a bald eagle.

 JH> I hope it discriminates between the purposeful and accidental as well as
 JH> the shades in between.

 I believe it does, but eagles are not really that commonly killed by
 accident.

BK>> I've often though about an episode, perhaps of "Voyager", where the
BK>>Voyager crew meets a very highly advanced, and powerful alien. He has
BK>>the capability to send them home in an instant, and is willing to do
BK>>so. Then, just before he does, he discovers the Prime Directive. So,
BK>>he tells them he can't help them. His moral code requires him to
BK>>treat other races as much as possible by their own moral codes. Since
BK>>the Federation has a rule against helping less advanced races, no
BK>>matter how great their need, he can't help the less advanced
BK>>Federation races.

 JH> I think they had something similiar to this... The one race had
 JH> developed highly advanced transporter technology capable of jumping
 JH> light years, but Janeway ends up using the PD to keep from using it.
 JH> The conflict was in the Marquis and, I think, some Feds who disobeyed
 JH> and tried to gain the transporter tech themselves.  But I can't remember
 JH> the PD argument used in not accepting the technology.

 Actually, it was out of respect for that race's own PD. They did not share
 their technology with other races. Rather selfish to my mind, I didn't see
 any sign they refused to accept knowledge from other races.

  I was thinking of a race specifically refusing to intervene because of
 the Federation's prime directive. Sort of a 'you made your bed'
 philosophy.

 JH> I think it was a trade-for-trade, the transporter for the entire library
 JH> of Voyager... and Janeway copped out.

 Actually, they would not share their tech no matter what. And it turned
 out that the Feds couldn't use the technology anyway, it required the use
 of their planet's substructure, and was not compatible with Voyager's
 technology.

  I also thought it was rather stupid of Janeway to be that concerned about
 respecting their laws. He honor may be saved, but that wouldn't be worth
 condemning the entire crew to 70 years of a voyage home, IMO. I'da stolen
 the damn thing and run.

BK>> JH> Another possibility, what sort of morale impact do you think it
BK>> JH>would have on a race if they couldn't even save themselves?  For

 BK>> None, they'd all be dead. How would the human race save itself from

 JH> You know what I meant.

 They'd get over it.

BK>>a large asteroid striking Earth? We couldn't. If some other race
BK>>saved us we might have a momentary bit of problem handling it, but
BK>>we'd get over it.

 JH> Sure, we'd be grateful at first, but also resentful, angry that we had
 JH> to be helped and couldn't do it ourselves.  Or at least some would feel
 JH> that way.

 Sure, we'd be resentful, but we'd adjust. The human mind has a vast
 ability to rationalize that which is in it's own interest.

  What we'd probably resent more is if they then went away and left us to
 our own devices after that. We'd resent being told we weren't worth the
 time to bother with, or advanced enough for contact.

BK>> That's what makes it fun. When we all agree we all go to sleep.

 JH> I could use a nap right now. ;)

  I can live with that.

Bob Klahn

... ïüûÔÔh·ä ÎCþhanks for hanging up, dear.
 * Silver Xpress V4.02B03 RB10275

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Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 153 of 441
 From : Bob Klahn                           1:234/2         .óá 06 .þë 96 15:40
 To   : Jeff Hancock
 Subj : SABOTAGING BABYLON
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
BK>> JH> Say, maybe that's what DS9 needs, saboteurs of the Deep Space
BK>> JH>project. Whatever happened to the first eight, anyway?  <snicker>

BK>> DS-9 was a Cardassian post. Maybe the first 8 got blown up in the

 JH> Actually I was under the impression that there were eight more in
 JH> various positions on the border, that that was just the ninth post that
 JH> was a fair distance from the Federation border.  Although it seems
 JH> rather ludicrous that there would be only nine by that time.

 There may have been, Cardassian stations. DS9 was the one in Bajoran
 space, so that was the one the Federation got.

 JH> Of course, Deep Space 437 just doesn't have the same ring to it.

 A not insignificant factor.

Bob Klahn

... The less they pay you the more they want for it.  Metzger's law.
 * Silver Xpress V4.02B03 RB10275

--- FLAME v1.1
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Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 154 of 441
 From : Bob Klahn                           1:234/2         .óá 06 .þë 96 15:40
 To   : Mark Jones
 Subj : THEN AND NOW...
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 MJ> On (25 Jun 96) Bob Klahn wrote to Frank Glover...

 MJ> Yes, yes, yes, yes and yes.  Don't forget fan-fic.  Morphing effects
 MJ> that once required ILM-level budgets to achieve are now within the
 MJ> reach of home computer hobbyists.

 MJ> Within a few years of the Hollywood's use of digital actors, you'll se
 MJ> home-made *fan-fic* films, just like you can now find written fan-fic.
 MJ>  So, any version of Trek you want will be available somewhere...or you
 MJ> can do your own.

 You know, you may have just written the epitath of the major studios.

Bob Klahn

... "Please don't try this at home.  Maybe at your neighbours ..."
 * Silver Xpress V4.02B03 RB10275

--- FLAME v1.1
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Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 155 of 441
 From : Bob Klahn                           1:234/2         .óá 06 .þë 96 15:40
 To   : Mark Jones
 Subj : CANCELLED
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 MJ> On (26 Jun 96) Bob Klahn wrote to Jeff Hancock...

 BK>> I think their use of the prime directive is one of the stupidest
 BK>> things they could come up with.

 MJ> Amen, brother.

 BK>> In one episode an entire planet was about to be destroyed, an
 BK>> entire sentient species wiped out, and the Enterprise was
 BK>> prepared to stand by and do nothing. Starfleet is not allowed to
 BK>> interfere with the development of any race, even when that
 BK>> development is about to come to a screeching, and permanent,
 BK>> halt.

 BK>> But of course, as Pickard said, that may be their destiny. Screw
 BK>> destiny, do something.

 MJ> Talk about a callous, bureaucratic adherence to rules and regulations!

 Does the word, "Vogon" mean anything?

 MJ>  Picard and company made the FDA or IRS look like nurturing caregivers
 MJ> by comparison.  Too bad about those aliens--but we can't interfere, it
 MJ> would be wrong.  I liked it very much that Worf's half-brother said
 MJ> all the things that needed to be said (though they painted him very
 MJ> clearly as the villain, and WRONG (tm) to do what he did).

 They may have painted him as the villian, but the veneer was thin enough
 for me to see through.

 MJ> The PD is too broadly worded.  IF you're going to have such a thing, a
 MJ> vague and absolute dictum like that is useless.  Better (if you must
 MJ> do anything) to have a set of rules about HOW (and when and where and
 MJ> to what extent) you may interact with planet-bound cultures.

 Sorry, you are making sense. Please cease this rational behavior
 immediately.

Bob Klahn

... Type Alt-X for an intelligence test when ready.
 * Silver Xpress V4.02B03 RB10275

--- FLAME v1.1
 * Origin: Telnet toltbbs.com or call 313-854-6001, Boardwatch #55 (1:234/2)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 156 of 441
 From : Bob Klahn                           1:234/2         .óá 06 .þë 96 15:40
 To   : Kay Shapero
 Subj : CANCELLED
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 KS> On <Jul 01 11:58>, Bob Klahn (1:234/2) wrote to Jeff Hancock:

 BK>> really didn't even understand that they were dieing off. We try
 BK>>to protect them so vigorously you can go to prison for killing a bald
 BK>>eagle.

 KS> You can go to prison for finding and keeping a bald eagle FEATHER!

 Good point, I had failed to mention that.

 KS> One more subtle reason for the PD may be the fact that if you hand
 KS> someone else technological information, they get only that info; they
 KS> DON'T get the other things that they would have learned along the way
 KS> if they'd discovered it themselves.  Including, like as not, some

 Carried to extremes, however, we should teach our own children nothing at
 all.

 KS> things that the Federation culture never found out themselves.  Each

 The true value of the heretic.

 KS> species, like each individual, is different. (and we're back to David
 KS> Brin's Uplift universe, where the human race uses the Library to
 KS> suggest areas of investigation, but avoids depending on it.)

 Which is the correct way to do it.

Bob Klahn

... God created anchovies.  Satan put them on pizza.
 * Silver Xpress V4.02B03 RB10275

--- FLAME v1.1
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Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 157 of 441
 From : Bob Klahn                           1:234/2         .óá 06 .þë 96 15:40
 To   : Leman Russ
 Subj : SAAB
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 LR>>> So cheer up, SAABies, there will be at least a coiuple novels, a
 LR>>>fhanclub and probably a comic series from an indy company.

 NS>> Based on the media novels that I've seen, however (for TREK, and B5)
 NS>> any media novels will be BAD (story assignmes given to hack writers

 BK>>  Thunk...(Sound of nail being hit on the head.)

 LR>  All right, fine! I tried to cheer upthe SAAB fhans and point out
 LR>  thatthey could do some fhanac with their series like other groups of

  Sorry, we do appreciate the attempt at cheering up, but, we are just a we
  bit cynical from long experience. I'm sure you are familiar with it.

  OTOH, maybe we do need a little time to grieve, or wallow in self pity,
  however you care to look at it. We'll get over it.

Bob Klahn

... At Hydrogen 2 and Oxygen one, game called because of rain.
 * Silver Xpress V4.02B03 RB10275

--- FLAME v1.1
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Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 158 of 441
 From : Bob Klahn                           1:234/2         .óá 06 .þë 96 15:40
 To   : Glenn Shaheen
 Subj : CANCELLED
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
JH>>I am being sarcastic here, in case some literal-minded spoilsport plans
JH>>to use this as the basis for an attack.  But the Feds are definitely not
JH>>the type to go on the offensive unless forced to... some counterexamples
JH>>will undoubtedly come to mind to those reading, but in general, why
JH>>AREN'T they actively making war on the Klingons, or the Dominion, or
JH>>trying to go hunt down the Borg, eh?

 GS>         Why didn't the USSR go to war with the US when that U2 spyplane
 GS> incident happened?

 A: They were doing the same thing all along.
 B: They would have lost a conventional war.
 C: They didn't want to get blown all to hell in a nuclear war.

 All of which seems to be what you are getting at, if I interpret the
 question correctly.
 ...

JH>>Space is not completely empty; but the "dust" you speak of is generally
JH>>of a very low density.  You usually only have to worry about it when
JH>>travelling at great velocities (you or it)... it's not going to "cloud
JH>>up" the light in most cases.

 GS>         Now it isn't that dense, but what about near a space station
 GS> where skirmishes happen frequently and it is used alot? There'd be a lot
 GS> more dust than there is now.

 Not dust, debris. But the debris would only stay close if there was a
 strong gravitational pull, otherwise it would sail off on it's own.
 ...

 GS>         Yes. With your logic the flying saucers from Plan 9 From Outer
 GS> Space look like the flying saucers from Independence Day.

 Hey, that's a classic.

 A classic of what, however...


Bob Klahn

... One more nostalgic part of childhood goes thbppth. - Calvin
 * Silver Xpress V4.02B03 RB10275

--- FLAME v1.1
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Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 159 of 441
 From : Bob Klahn                           1:234/2         .óá 06 .þë 96 15:40
 To   : Brandon Wolgast
 Subj : MINBARI AND B5
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
LR>> KS> I think Delenn h it about right when she said that the Minbari had
LR>> KS> all gone mad together, and recovered from the madness just in time.

LR>> Sorry, kid, but "temporary insanity" is no excuse for genocide, especially
LR>>a racial scale over several years. Ifthe mimbs want to be respected and reve
LR>>for the age andnd development than they'd better act like a mature race inst
LR>>of a bunch of psychoes who go off at theslightest provocation.

 BW> It's Minbari, not Mimbari, there is an N not an M in there.  And to YOU

 Thanks, but it is minor.

 BW> and other HUMANS genocide is not "okay" yet we're talking OTHER races,
 BW> not just other humans, or cultures on earth, but totally different
 BW> worlds, people act differently.  And as for the war, we (as in humans)

 People may act differently, but when *WE* judge the Minbari, Genocide is
 not OK, Murder is not OK.

 BW> killed their leader and a ton of others on the ships that were destroyed

 Sort of what happened at Pearl Harbor. Did we wipe out the Japanese?

 Yet Pearl Harbor was worse, the Japanese knew exactly what they were
 doing.

 BW> at first contact. And as for having their gunports opened, did you know
 BW> that in the days of sailing in wooden ships that is exactly what
 BW> happened a lot of the time? Yup, right here on earth a boat would
 BW> approach another with it's cannons sticking out as a "sign of respect."
 BW> And many times it did lead to a war (not a huge war but a war
 BW> nonethelss) and if not a war at least the sinking of one of the ships at

 And did they ever learn to be careful of that? Or did they just keep
 blythly sailing up with their gun ports open?

 BW> the meeting.  And if the Minbari are dying out little by little with
 BW> their belief of the migration of souls (which after "Chrysalis" is now
 BW> over with) then they cannot really afford to lose anyone can they? And I

 Which would mean they should try to avoid a war, by going the extra step
 to find the cause. Wars tend to kill more people, or Minbari, overall than
 any one battle.

 BW> doubt ALL Minbari felt that way, but the Warrior Caste was leading
 BW> almost all of the attacks and doing the fighting and usually a "warrior"
 BW> in any race or show cannot stand to lose a fight or ever wants to stop.

 ...

LR>> BTW, have the mimbs ever accecpted any responsibility for coming inwith the
LR>>weapons exposed? They mostly still seemto blame sherridan and throw fits
LR>>whenever he shows up, like the crew on the tregatti, the captain of the ship
LR>>sent to get it, andthe ones framing him for murder.

 BW> Throw fits? Hrmp.. again, only the warrior caste, the others seem to
 BW> except what happened. I'm sure there ARE ones out there that hate him

 ...

LR>> I would like to seethe mimbs takesome responsibility for the war, andt ep
LR>>witjh "king arthur" came close, but not quite onthe money. It still dealt wi
LR>>the fact a human fired firstand not the fact the mimbs took provocative acti

 BW> You don't seem to understand, it is not provcative to THEM. We are
 BW> dealing with another race, I'm sure each race has it a different way and
 BW> I can say for sure that I doubt the Minbari since then have changed a
 BW> thing about first contact.  Like it or not we did fire first and we did
 BW> start the war, David (Arthur) said it best with, "I didn't know... we
 BW> didn't know."

 The point is, the Minbari were the senior race, they were the ones with a
 thousand years of space faring experience. They are the ones who should
 have anticipated the possibility of any particular act being
 misinterpreted.

LR>> Why didn;t the cents tell humans about th
LR>>mimbari and their idiotic custom of charging at new races with weapons ready

 BW> Perhaps the Centauri did tell Earth about the Minbari and that is why
 BW> the meeting was set up.  Maybe the Centauri thought humans would smart
 BW> enough to realize a sign of respect and not stupid enough to fire when

 The stupidity is in thinking your gestures will be accepted by your
 standards.

 BW> we saw it. Perhaps when the Minbari met the Centauri, Narn, Draazi,
 BW> Vorlons, Brekeri, etc., they didn't have a single problem with their
 BW> gunports being opened, perhaps the other races were not stupid enough to
 BW> fire on them and realized it was a sign of respect.

 Or maybe that was the custom of all those races. It is still the
 responsibility of the senior, more experienced, to anticipate the errors
 of the less experienced. Of course, the greatest stupidity of all was
 entering a first contact situation armed in the first place.

  In any event, the original point was not that the Minbari are inferior to
 humans, but that they are not vastly superior. Your own points serve to
 prove that the Minbari are not morally or culturally superior to humans.

Bob Klahn

... Race is an idea whose time has passed. <New People Magazine>
 * Silver Xpress V4.02B03 RB10275

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Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 160 of 441
 From : Bob Klahn                           1:234/2         .óá 06 .þë 96 15:40
 To   : Mark Jones
 Subj : ROBERT A. HEINLEIN
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 MJ>    This tends to happen with a lot of writers.  They become big enough
 MJ> to ignore their editors--and they do.  Their books get bigger and
 MJ> bigger, sloppier and sloppier.  (Sort of like Microsoft code....)

 Ohhh...excellent shot.

Bob Klahn

... Fatal Error: You're dead.
 * Silver Xpress V4.02B03 RB10275

--- FLAME v1.1
 * Origin: Telnet toltbbs.com or call 313-854-6001, Boardwatch #55 (1:234/2)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 161 of 441
 From : Bob Klahn                           1:234/2         .óá 06 .þë 96 15:40
 To   : Mark Jones
 Subj : THE SF CHANNEL
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 MJ> On (26 Jun 96) Brion Lienhart wrote to Charles Daniels...

 BL>> Congress didn't require any such thing. The FCC requires stations
 BL>> to broadcast a certain amount of educational content during the

 ...

 BL>> moral message and educational content they could claim that G.I.

 ...

 MJ>   As long as the government is going to make paternalistic and
 MJ> unconstitutional demands, I'll cheer the tv industry on as they
 MJ> exploit loopholes like that one.  TV and radio are "the press" as
 MJ> surely as newspapers and magazines are, and should be free of
 MJ> government content control just as certainly.  (The notion that the

 TV and radio are far more entertainment media than news media. TV and
 radio themsleves are the means of communication, not the content.

 MJ> broadcast spectrum is limited and therefore, somehow, too important to
 MJ> be left to the market like newspapers and magazines, is--well, crap.
 MJ> It always was, and its especially bogus given the increases in
 MJ> technology that have made it possible to use far more channels than
 MJ> ever before.)

 Not at all true. The broadcast spectrum is severly limited, and very
 competitive for space. The increase in technology has been more than
 compensated for by the increase in demand for spectrum space. Don't
 forget, the radio spectrum is international. Nobody has yet come up with a
 way to keep radio waves from spilling over national boundaries. Without
 government spectrum allotments radio would become unusable. Rush
 Limbaugh's 50KW powerhouse would be drowned out by the 1 watt wireless
 mike next door. Don't even try to run two TV stations on the same channel
 too close together. And a hundred miles is too close.

 MJ> The notion that anyone can start a newspaper or magazine (albeit on a
 MJ> shoestring) but that the same isn't true of broadcast media is true
 MJ> only because the government WON'T LET YOU start one.  Ham (i.e.,
 MJ> amateur) radio has been around as long as commercial radio.  It can be
 MJ> done.

 Ham radio is restricted in power, works on a basis of shared spectrum, and
 still has a serious problem with interference. As it is, ham radio is also
 severly restricted in what can be transmitted, involves a limited number
 of listeners, and requires technically qualified personnell at both ends.
 Not exactly suitable for broadcast radio.


Bob Klahn

... Forgive us for shooting those who trespass against us.
 * Silver Xpress V4.02B03 RB10275

--- FLAME v1.1
 * Origin: Telnet toltbbs.com or call 313-854-6001, Boardwatch #55 (1:234/2)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 162 of 441
 From : Bob Klahn                           1:234/2         .óá 06 .þë 96 15:40
 To   : Kay Shapero
 Subj : SABOTAGING BABYLON
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 KS> Oops - almost forgot one.  The eighth is parked on the LASFS lot next
 KS> to the clubhouse.  :->

 KS> (It is, too - we've got two trailers used for overflow, conversation and
 KS> whatnont - one named DS8, the other Babylon 4.  The latter frequently
 KS> has a TV in it since B5 is on during the LASFS club meetings.)

 Gotta change the name of B4, now that it's been sent back in time. Either
 that or you will age drastically every time you come back out into the
 world.

Bob Klahn

... If a periodic event is brief, is it a trice cycle?
 * Silver Xpress V4.02B03 RB10275

--- FLAME v1.1
 * Origin: Telnet toltbbs.com or call 313-854-6001, Boardwatch #55 (1:234/2)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 163 of 441
 From : Bob Klahn                           1:234/2         .óá 06 .þë 96 20:27
 To   : Frank Glover
 Subj : THEN AND NOW...
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
BK>>   alikes wandering around. With the basics of the human appearance
BK>>  it's pretty
BK>>   difficult to come up with a realistic looking human image that
BK>>  doesn't
BK>>   actually resemble a real human being.
 FG>
 FG>    True. And that's why even today there's that standard disclamer:
 FG>    "This is a work of fiction. Any similarity to any person, living or
 FG>    dead, is purely coincidental." Of course there are exceptions for
 FG>    `public domain' kinds of people, as long as there's no slander.

 Which disclaimer is routinely put aside when the fiction parallels the fact
 too closely. It may well be that the simplist way is to find a real person
 and license his image, rather than wait for the lawsuits. Best bet, the
 producers use their own image, idealized, of course, for the main
 characters.

 They can use my image, for a price, and as long as I get the girl.

 FG>    Unfortunately I don't remember the title or author, but a few years
 FG>    back, a friend pointed out an SF novel with a minor character who
 FG>    just happened to have my name....

 Just recently someone mentioned a movie character who had my name. I have
 the movie on tape.

BOB KLAHN

... "Here, hold this grenade.  I just dropped the pin on the floor."
 * Silver Xpress V4.3P RB10275

--- FLAME v1.1
 * Origin: Telnet toltbbs.com or call 313-854-6001, Boardwatch #55 (1:234/2)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 164 of 441
 From : Kay Shapero                         1:102/524       .óá 06 .þë 96 11:12
 To   : Henry Triplett
 Subj : CGI vs Models
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Jul 05 11:34>, Henry Triplett (1:106/564) wrote to KAY SHAPERO:

 HT>follow the show too closely, so I just took his word that they
 HT>were using CGI.  Interesting that Glenn thought their models looked
 HT>like poor CGI.  :)

What I find interesting, or maybe alarming, is the number of folks turning up on
echoes like this one who have manifestly never seen the films of the various
moon landings and similar items.  Even with dust temporarily kicked up by the
landing or the lunar rover, the shadows are pretty sharp.  And of course there
are a lot of more recent pictures from the space shuttle and the like.  Even at
a distance, you get the same clean outlines and sharp division between light and
shadow.

Of course the reason for the "whoosh" as the Enterprise crosses the screen in
Original Trek was NOT because the makers didn't know there's no sound in a
vacuum.  It was because when they did test showings before a live audience, the
latter didn't find the opening as "convincing" without them.  So they were added
on the same basis as the background music.

Speaking of CGI, it would appear that life action special effects and animated
film continue on their collision course.  I saw Disney's latest (The Hunchback
of Notre Dame) last night, and some of the distant computer-animated crowd
scenes looked more like light rotoscoping of filmed live action.  They were
using a new technique and didn't quite have all the bugs out yet, but that will
improve.

--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 165 of 441
 From : Henry Triplett                      1:106/564       .óá 06 .þë 96 21:23
 To   : NICOLAI SHAPERO
 Subj : CGI vs Models
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

-=> Quoting Nicolai Shapero to Henry Triplett <=-

 NS> Guys, SAAB used models for most of their effects, not CGI.

Thanks again.  Kay informed me of same earlier.  Curious that anyone would
start off using models so heavily in this day and age.  I guess it's a
matter of going with what they're comfortable with.

Henry

... If it's a tie at the RR crossing, you lose. - Operation Lifesaver

___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20 [NR]
--- GEcho 1.00
 * Origin: Eat Flaming Death    Houston Texas    713-447-1927 (1:106/564)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 166 of 441
 From : David Johnston                      1:342/14        .cê 07 .þë 96 01:04
 To   : Kay Shapero
 Subj : Cancelled
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
-> One more subtle reason for the PD may be the fact that if you hand
-> someone else technological information, they get only that info; they
-> DON'T get the other things that they would have learned along the way
-> if they'd discovered it themselves.  Including, like as not, some
-> things that the Federation culture never found out themselves.  Each
-> species, like each

Not handing out technological information to alien species unless they
something to trade is only common sense.  But the Prime, as applied in
the modern series, is far more sweeping and has been elevated to the
status of an absolute moral principle, rather than a pragmatic policy.

--- PCBoard (R) v15.21/100
 * Origin: Freddy's Place - Edm. AB - 33.6K (403) 413-3460 (1:342/14)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 167 of 441
 From : David Johnston                      1:342/14        .cê 07 .þë 96 01:09
 To   : Nicolai Shapero
 Subj : Re: Cancelled
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
-> Not to torture them, to test them.  Desparate times call for
-> desparate
->
-> DJ>The test WAS torture.
-> That's a matter of interpretation.

Torture:  Infliction of or subjection to extreme physical pain, or great
mental suffering.

Both occured.  They were being tested by the application of torture.

--- PCBoard (R) v15.21/100
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Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 168 of 441
 From : David Johnston                      1:342/14        .cê 07 .þë 96 01:13
 To   : Nicolai Shapero
 Subj : Re: Cancelled
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
-> Hmmm...without provocation, you say?  A thousand years earlier, they
-> have most of their worlds blasted clean of life.  They are attacked
-> and killed without mercy.  Alien forces combine to attempt to
-> exterminate them, and very nearly succeed.  Then they take "the long
-> view" and wait for a thousand years, hidden in their bunkers and
-> hidden shelters, planning how to rebuild the glory of their lost
-> empire.  Now...substitute Humans for Shadows, and see how it sounds.
-> You'd be ready for the monkey boys to go out and "kick some ass"
-> wouldn't you?

No.  Going out and committing atrocities based on thousand-year-old
grievances against irrelevant species is what bad guys do.  If humans
did it, they'd be bad guys.  I should say, when humans do it, they are
being bad guys.

--- PCBoard (R) v15.21/100
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Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 169 of 441
 From : Lis Carey                           1:101/230       .ÿò 05 .þë 96 22:31
 To   : Jeff Hancock
 Subj : CANCELLED
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
JH>LC>Yes, as a matter of fact, we did semi-regularly see Klingons on or
JH>LC>passing through the station, and there was a Klingon restaurant on
JH>LC>the Promenade.

JH>Huh.  Must not have been paying attention.  Will be watching in
JH>retrospect.

JH>LC>JH>So the Federation has another race as their enemy that wasn't much
JH>LC>These are significant changes, especially from the viewpoint of the
JH>LC>Starfleet personnel assigned to Deep Space Nine. Before, they were there
JH>LC>chiefly to show the flag. Now, they're sitting on the front lines of two
JH>LC>wars, which have just been revealed to be the same war - and it's about
JH>LC>to heat up.

JH>Then let's hope it really does; seeing how it has mostly been a
JH>non-event for some time.  A few highlights, but mostly inactive, unless
JH>it's just that I don't care enough to notice. ;)  Watch, forget...

Ah, but the fact that you are inattentive enough, when watching DS9, to
forget critical information after it's presented, doesn't mean that it
hasn't been presented.

JH>And even now... The Klingons are supposed to be hostile, yet they don't
JH>actively go to war after one attack on the station, and even now when
JH>things heat up it's not really a Klingon leading the charge.

The Klingons don't want to fight a war on two fronts, and _right now_,
they are concentrating on the Cardassians - relatively high reward for
relatively little effort, compared to all-out war with the Federation.

JH>LC>JH>GS>JH>Gul Dukat's no G'kar, that's for sure.
JH>LC>JH>In some ways they are similar characters, they even look vaguely
JH>LC>JH>similar.
JH>LC>They look similar? Perhaps - to people who didn't snicker when JMS

JH>I said vaguely, and I meant as in reptilian-looking.

The Cardassians don't look at all "reptilian" to me. Amongst other
things, surely you've noticed that they have hair?

JH>LC>claimed that the commander of DSN [Ben Sisko] had the same initials
JH>LC>as the commanders of B5 [Jeffrey Sinclair and John Sheridan].

JH>I have no idea of what you're trying to say with this.

JMS once posted in the B5 newsgroup a list of the allegedly give-away
similarities between DS9 and B5, which "proved" that Berman and Piller,
whether or not they realized it, were working from the material JMS had
presented to Paramount when he pitched B5 to them and got turned down.
one of these alleged similarities was that the commander of DS9, like
the commander of B5, had the same initials as he did, the initials
"J.S."  Some people in the newsgroup swallowed the list hook, line, and
sinker, while others, with varyingly-successful attempts at humor,
pointed out that JMS was apparently confused as to the spelling of
"Benjamin".

My point was that the two characters only could only look "similar" to
each other to someone who brings the same level of uncritical belief in
the theory that DS9 is a copy of B5 that resulted in JMS saying, and
many newsgroup readers not questioning, that "Benjamin Sisko" and "John
Sheridan" had the same initials.

JH>LC>Neither coloring nor skin texture is remotely similar.

JH>If you say so.

I do so say so, but only because it's true.:)

JH>LC>JH>except G'kar has evolved over all three seasons and Gul Dukat only
JH>LC>JH>took one major turn that I remember, when his government fell
JH>LC>You haven't been paying attention. Gul Dukat was carefully and
JH>LC>gradually developed over three seasons before they had the Klingons

JH>But was he developed as being anything other than an incredibly devious
JH>and wily snake in the grass?

Yes. He was developed as being genuinely and deeply loyal to the
Cardassian Empire, distressed by what he saw as corruption in other
parts of the government and military, as a loving father whose career
has kept him from spending the time he'd like with his son, and who is
distressed by the resulting distance between himself and his son, as a
man who is by his own lights a man of honor and high standards of
conduct who is puzzled and sometimes a little hurt by the fact that
Sisko not only doesn't see him that way, but is often most disapproving
of the actions he himself [Dukat] is most proud of. We've seen a
cautious respect grow up between Sisko and Dukat, as each learned to
recognize that the other adhered strictly to a high standard of conduct,
even if it wasn't the _same_ standard.

JH>LC>kick the stuffing out of the Cardassian Empire, and OTOH, while the
JH>LC>biggest changes in Dukat's character have come in his reaction to
JH>LC>this disaster, this is ALSO true of G'Kar, who has undergone major
JH>LC>changes as a result of being forced to deal with the disaster of his
JH>LC>homeworld being conquered by the Centauri.

JH>Except G'kar had to go through some major changes before that, trying to
JH>convince others of the Shadow threat, and then later with the war.  I'm
JH>probably forgetting, but it seems like the whole Cardissian fall
JH>happened in practically one or two episodes, unlike the nearly
JH>season-long conversion of G'kar (from Chrysalis to The Long, Twilight
JH>Struggle).

You are forgetting. We got lots of hints about the Obsidian
Order's secret build-up for the invasion of the Dominion, the
draining-off of resources that the usual authorities couldn't account
for, etc., laying the groundwork for the disaster of the invasion and
the fact that the Cardassian Empire was critically weakened by those
losses. There was the fact of that disaster itself, the resulting
political upheaval in the Empire, the Klingons seeing the upheaval as a
golden opportunity.

There was plenty of build-up and gradual development. This doesn't mean
you have to like the show, but they're _not_ doing things in the
slapdash manner you choose to believe.

The style is very different from B5, but that's because it's [brace
yourself] a different show, made by different people, with a different
creative vision.

 * OLX 2.1 TD * When I say "meow" this, way, it means "open the door."

--- FLAME v1.0
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Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 170 of 441
 From : Lis Carey                           1:101/230       .ÿò 05 .þë 96 22:40
 To   : Jeff Hancock
 Subj : CANCELLED
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
JH>BK> I've often though about an episode, perhaps of "Voyager", where the
JH>BK>Voyager crew meets a very highly advanced, and powerful alien. He has
JH>BK>the capability to send them home in an instant, and is willing to do
JH>BK>so. Then, just before he does, he discovers the Prime Directive. So,
JH>BK>he tells them he can't help them. His moral code requires him to
JH>BK>treat other races as much as possible by their own moral codes. Since
JH>BK>the Federation has a rule against helping less advanced races, no
JH>BK>matter how great their need, he can't help the less advanced
JH>BK>Federation races.

JH>I think they had something similiar to this... The one race had
JH>developed highly advanced transporter technology capable of jumping
JH>light years, but Janeway ends up using the PD to keep from using it.
JH>The conflict was in the Marquis and, I think, some Feds who disobeyed
JH>and tried to gain the transporter tech themselves.  But I can't remember
JH>the PD argument used in not accepting the technology.

JH>I think it was a trade-for-trade, the transporter for the entire library
JH>of Voyager... and Janeway copped out.

The local authorities that controlled the technology _didn't_ want to
give it to Janeway, for any price. They wanted the Voyager and her
crew to _stay_. The people willing to trade the technology for the
library weren't the legitimate authorities - Torres' and Tuvok's deal
with them was black-market.

And in the end, the technology wasn't compatible with Starfleet tech,
anyway, and they were unable to use it.


 * OLX 2.1 TD * Cat \kat\ Small four-legged fur-bearing extortionist.

--- FLAME v1.0
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Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 171 of 441
 From : Lis Carey                           1:101/230       .óá 06 .þë 96 09:55
 To   : Jeff Hancock
 Subj : CANCELLED
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
JH>LC>They've been gradually building up the tensions between the
JH>LC>Federation and the Klingon Empire all this season, and part of last
JH>LC>season. There _wasn't_ just the one incident when DS9 was actually
JH>LC>attacked; that just happened to be the only one you noticed.

JH>The only real Klingon incident I remember since the attack was the one
JH>where they were laying some form of stealth minefield.  Other Klingon
JH>eps pop to mind, but I can't place their time as being before or after
JH>the trucebreaking.

Some of them were before the truce-breaking. Your not remembering
doesn't alter the fact that some of them were before the truce-breaking.

JH>LC>JH>Funny how they only attacked DS9 though, and haven't really
JH>LC>JH>attacked since.
JH>LC>The Klingons haven't been primarily interested in starting a war with
JH>LC>the Federation; they had long-standing tensions with the Cardassians,
JH>LC>and no treaty with them as they had with the Federation. When the

JH>And, of course, they weren't worried about attacking DS9 since they knew
JH>the Feds wouldn't start a war over it. ;)

In Real Life(tm), Jeff, single incidents _rarely_ cause a full-blown
war, if the attackers didn't capture what they attacked, unless both
sides are _ready_ to commit to full-blown war. Note that the same thing
has happened on B5; single hostile incidents with the Narn, the
Centauri, and the Minbari, _without_ a full-blown war between Earth and
whoever the latest offender was resulting from it.

The Federation has a very US-like policy; _don't_ be easily provoked,
don't get into a war unless it's either absolutely necessary or easily
contained, but if a shooting war starts, be tougher than the enemy ever
expected.

JH>LC>The Klingons felt _betrayed_ when their ally, the Federation, opposed
JH>LC>their plans and gave aid to the Cardassians - or so Gowron claimed.
JH>LC>Except that now we know that Gowron is actually a Changeling...I'd
JH>LC>look for further developments, here. Including a possible reason why
JH>LC>TPTB didn't actually kill off Kurn.:)

JH>Assuming he's been a Changeling for that long.

We don't know how long he's been a Changeling, but we _do_ know that his
behavior has been slightly atypical since shortly before the
truce-breaking, which might be hint. And the Kurn incident was _after_
the truce-breaking; it was largely the _result_ of the truce-breaking.

JH>It does make a little more sense now, aside from my not remembering why
JH>the Feds decided to help the Cardassians in any event.  Anyone want to
JH>imagine Jean-Luc's reaction upon hearing that bit of news?

The Cardassians were no longer a threat; the Klingons, if allowed to
completely absorb the remnants of the Cardassian Empire without
opposition, would become stronger, larger, and more of a potential
threat. Strip away the make-nice talk, and that's the realpolitik
calculus behind that decision - and behind the fact that the Bajorans,
including Kira, basically agree with the decision. Picard may have
experienced some momentary pleasure at the Cardassians' getting their
butts kicked, and some momentary annoyance at the Federation aid being
sent to them, but he'll understand the reasons very, very well.

Aside from that, the Federation has always understood the value of the
long-term investment in a willingness to give "humanitarian" aid to
almost anyone. And many of the Feds are also completely sincere about
it.

JH>LC>The Changelings' plan all along has been to manipulate the major
JH>LC>powers of Alpha Quadrant into destroying themselves, at minimal
JH>LC>trouble and expense to the Changelings. And there's been _lots_ of
JH>LC>foreshadowing of _that_.

JH>Yes, to the point where one wishes they would get on with it already.
JH>Even now I'm not convinced they'll get around to acting on it next
JH>season.  Is the next one expected to be the last, now that it's in
JH>syndication?  Perhaps they'll go out with a bang, relatively speaking,
JH>since the station has to survive for the inevitable movies. ;)


They _have_ been acting on it, Jeff. They just haven't been using enough
pyrotechnics to get your attention, is all. The Romulans & Cardassians
were tricked into making a suicidal attack in Dominion territory. The
Federation was very nearly successfully tricked into taking paranoid
internal security measures that would have damaged Federation unity. The
Klingon-Federation alliance has been broken, the Klingons have been
fighting with what's left of the Cardassians, and now the Klingons and
the Federation are on the verge of all-out war.

JH>LC>I'm not saying you should like DS9 at all, much less like it better
JH>LC>than B5; I agree that B5 has a greater depth and greater texture of

JH>Hah hah!  Why would I think that? ;)

JH>LC>reality. But some of your criticisms of DS9 just aren't factually
JH>LC>accurate, and they certainly aren't fair to this most textured, dark,
JH>LC>and complex of all the Trek series.

JH>Perhaps not.  I have watched every episode, but certainly not made much
JH>effort to rewatch or remember everything that happens, unlike the
JH>continual dissection of every minor sub-sub-subplot that occurs on B5.

JH>And the whole Dominion/Changeling/Klingon/etc etc thing on DS9 just
JH>reminds me of that old dollar-bill-on-a-string gag, tease the viewer and
JH>then pull it away.  Maybe I'm just guilty of expecting too much, and as
JH>long as events pan out without being dropped, just let it go.


No, what you're guilty of is applying a double standard - you examine
every B5 episode in detail, discussing it with others and rewatching it
to see what you missed the first time around, while giving DS9 episodes
cursory attention and no detailed examination, and then complain that
you're not finding the same level of detail and complexity in DS9 that
you are in B5. OF COURSE NOT! If you watched B5 as casually and
dismissively as you watch DS9, you wouldn't be finding the level of
detail and complexity there, either.

 * OLX 2.1 TD * "If winning isn't important...why keep score?" Worf

--- FLAME v1.0
 * Origin: Withouta Net - Drop In Anytime! - 617/846-5416 (1:101/230)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 172 of 441
 From : Lis Carey                           1:101/230       .óá 06 .þë 96 09:59
 To   : David Johnston
 Subj : CANCELLED
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
DJ>-> DJ> Two such episodes come to mind, the one where Data started
DJ>-> communicating DJ> with the little girl on the doomed planet, and the
DJ>-> one where Worf's DJ> brother bullied them into saving some of the
DJ>-> sentients.
DJ>-> I had forgotten the "Worf's Brother" episode. Another good case in
DJ>-> point. Let em die, at least we won't be violating our rules.
DJ>-> Not as if saving a single village would make any real difference,
DJ>-> they would die out from effects of inbreeding in no time anyway.
DJ>-> Better just to

DJ>The effects of inbreeding are not so predictable as one might suppose.
DJ>If there were no fatal recessives in the original population, they might
DJ>actually do quite well, inbreeding or no.

Fatal recessives would quickly be bred out. Non-fatal but damaging
recessives would be more of a problem, but could be dealt with. The
_real_ long-term problem with inbreeding is that after a few
generations, there's no longer any genetic variety in the group -
everybody has practically the same set of genes - and therefore any new
disease which can kill one, can probably kill all, or at least enough so
that the population can no longer recover.

 * OLX 2.1 TD * For the Snark WAS a Boojum, you see.

--- FLAME v1.0
 * Origin: Withouta Net - Drop In Anytime! - 617/846-5416 (1:101/230)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 173 of 441
 From : Chris Farrar                        1:246/20        .ÿò 05 .þë 96 18:20
 To   : Kay Shapero
 Subj : B5 tech
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE 1.11+

 > I think both sides made some major goofs.  (Think
 > about it - you've landed on an alien planet and you
 > come across an apparently intelligent species you've
 > never met before.  You smile, meaning to indicate
 > friendly intent.  Unfortunately, around here, as with
 > almost every mammal on planet Earth but us, showing
 > your teeth is a threat gesture.  The alien reacts
 > accordingly and shows *it's* teeth in a threat/warning
 > gesture.  You reach out one hand to shake hands, it
 > sees that as an attack and goes for you in fear.  OK,
 > who started the fight?)

And in the B5 Earth/Minbari war, the Minbari ships approached with their weapon
ports open as a sign of respect.  If you compare that with the 20th century, and
you're a Captain of a US sub, and an unknown sub approaches you with its torpedo
doors open, you're liable to shoot first too...

Chris

--- GEcho 1.11+
 * Origin: Professional Thinkers Guild (519) 256-8717 (Windsor) (1:246/20)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 174 of 441
 From : Mark Jones                          1:105/302.47    .ÿò 05 .þë 96 20:06
 To   : Jeff Hancock
 Subj : CANCELLED
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On (03 Jul 96) Jeff Hancock wrote to Bob Klahn...

 JH> I think they had something similiar to this... The one race had
 JH> developed highly advanced transporter technology capable of
 JH> jumping light years, but Janeway ends up using the PD to keep
 JH> from using it. The conflict was in the Marquis and, I think, some
 JH> Feds who disobeyed and tried to gain the transporter tech
 JH> themselves. But I can't remember the PD argument used in not
 JH> accepting the technology.

Actually, Janeway had no qualms about accepting the new technology--if
it was offered by the local authorities.  But the local authorities
refused to offer it to them because they feared the Federation might
misuse this advanced technology they were given.

When some NON-government locals offered to trade the tech for the
Voyager's library of fiction (they loved storytelling in that
culture), Janeway refused.  [Which was silly, in my opinion.  I'd've
taken it in a heartbeat.  But then, I'm not big on rules and
regulations...which is why I'd never be in Janeway's boots, anyhow.]

 JH> BK>a large asteroid striking Earth? We couldn't. If some other race
 JH> BK>saved us we might have a momentary bit of problem handling it, but
 JH> BK>we'd get over it.
 JH>
 JH> Sure, we'd be grateful at first, but also resentful, angry that
 JH> we had to be helped and couldn't do it ourselves. Or at least
 JH> some would feel that way.

And some of us would, in paranoid fashion, wonder if it were all a big
scam.  (You know, push an asteroid toward the planet while still out
of sight of their observatories--then swoop down and offer to save
them from extinction.  For a price....)

--- PPoint 1.78
 * Origin: Folcroft Sanitarium (hsmith@cure.com) (1:105/302.47)

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 Msg  : 175 of 441
 From : Mark Jones                          1:105/302.47    .ÿò 05 .þë 96 20:23
 To   : Lis Carey
 Subj : CANCELLED
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On (01 Jul 96) Lis Carey wrote to Jeff Hancock...

 LC> The Klingons haven't been primarily interested in starting a war with
 LC> the Federation; they had long-standing tensions with the Cardassians,
 LC> and no treaty with them as they had with the Federation. When the
 LC> Cardassians and the Romulans were badly weakened by the attack on the
 LC> Dominion that the Founders manipulated them into, the Klingons decided
 LC> that it was time to settle some old scores and gain some new
 LC> territory.

   So far, so good.  I can buy this.

 LC> The Klingons felt _betrayed_ when their ally, the Federation,
 LC> opposed their plans and gave aid to the Cardassians - or so
 LC> Gowron claimed.

   Again, I can accept this.

 LC> Except that now we know that Gowron is actually a
 LC> Changeling...I'd look for further developments, here. Including a
 LC> possible reason why TPTB didn't actually kill off Kurn.:)

   Now *this*, THIS is the sort of lame writing I'd expect from Berman
and Pillar.  Instead of the Klingon Empire on the move again,
returning to the aggressive, militaristic, expansionist mindset of the
original series...now it's all the fault of one alien spy.  Once he's
disposed of, I have no doubt that the Klingons will repudiate the
whole business and go back to being Federation lapdogs.
   (Yes, I'm overstating the case--but I'm also very serious.  Until
Gowron was revealed as a changling, I really liked what they'd done
with the Klingons--now it has all the earmarks of a classic TNG
bait-and-switch routine.  The "bad" Klingons will be revealed to be
good guys after all, just misguided.  Once our heroes explain to them
how they've been duped, they'll see sweet reason...after a little pro
forma growling to save face.)

   Blech!

 LC> The Changelings' plan all along has been to manipulate the major
 LC> powers of Alpha Quadrant into destroying themselves, at minimal
 LC> trouble and expense to the Changelings. And there's been _lots_
 LC> of foreshadowing of _that_.

   No argument there.


--- PPoint 1.78
 * Origin: Folcroft Sanitarium (hsmith@cure.com) (1:105/302.47)

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 Msg  : 176 of 441
 From : Mark Jones                          1:105/302.47    .ÿò 05 .þë 96 20:32
 To   : Bob Klahn
 Subj : CANCELLED
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On (02 Jul 96) Bob Klahn wrote to Frank Swarbrick...

 BK> Ok, now that we have that settled, let me move on to the next
 BK> part. Do you recall what happened to the little girl at the end?
 BK> She was brought aboard the Enterprise, and they had a choice as
 BK> to whether to keep her aboard, that is she would disappear as far
 BK> as her world was concerned, or send her back and risk
 BK> contamination. They chose to wipe her memory of what she
 BK> experienced aboard the Enterprise.

   And this isn't the only time they've done it.  Or considered it.
There was one episode where they considered mindwiping someone who
knew too much--but his brain was sufficiently different that it
wouldn't have worked.  PRACTICAL, not moral, difficulties are all that
saved his mind from Dr. Crusher's tender mercies.
   They never once even *mentioned* the "moral implications" of
tampering with a man's mind (despite their claims to moral superiority
at every turn).

 BK> As far as I am concerned wiping her memory was the greater crime.
 BK> The child did not ask for it, and was a minor to begin with. To
 BK> me interferring with the person's mind is a greater crime than
 BK> contamination of their culture, or killing the person.

   Amen, brother!  Given the choice between being mindwiped and being
executed, I'd pick execution--especially if "I" was going to wind up
as Fred Smith, Perfect Citizen, laboring for the greater glory of the
state.

   (Ever wonder what happened to the hypnotic chair in the mental
institution in the original series?  MY guess is that they're standard
equipment in Federation grade schools now.  Which is why the
Federation has become such a bland utopian culture.  No wonder they
have no qualms about toying with an alien's mind and memory--its
standard procedure in their culture!)


--- PPoint 1.78
 * Origin: Folcroft Sanitarium (hsmith@cure.com) (1:105/302.47)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 177 of 441
 From : Earl Green                          1:3822/1        .cê 07 .þë 96 23:42
 To   : All
 Subj : UNLOADING B5,ST,SW GOODIE
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
I have some B5 items I'm looking to get rid of, posters and a couple of
the comics (including #1), as well as numerous Trek and Star Wars items,
a few CDs, and other things.  For more details, please send me e-mail -
please DON'T clutter this conference!  Thank you!
      e  <-- Earl Green (earl.green@f1.n3822.z1.fidonet.org)  1:3822/1
---
 * SLMR 2.0 * If all things must pass, even a pyramid won't last.

--- QScan/PCB v1.19b / 01-0162
 * Origin: Jackalope Junction 501-785-5381 Ft Smith AR (1:3822/1)

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 Msg  : 178 of 441
 From : Kevin van Houten                    1:124/7012.1701 .îí 08 .þë 96 13:52
 To   : Kay Shapero
 Subj : Sitcom stars
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.MOOD: Ok...for a Klingon }}:-I

 KS> Can't comment on the movie, not having seen it yet, but just
 KS> out of curiosity what sitcom did Brent Spiner act in? The only
 KS> thing I can recall seeing him in is Star Trek though I'm sure he's
 KS> done other things during his career.

He played a recurring 'hick' character on Night Court.

Sincerely,

Kevin L. van Houten
kvanho01@eng.eds.com
1:124/7012.1701

Posted to Kay Shapero on Monday, July 8, 1996 at 13:53


... Thanks, Tammy. - Yes, that's actually Todd Sullivan saying "thanks"
--- Terminate 4.00
 * Origin: Rawhide Creek Brewpub, Texas Sector, TEROK NOR (1:124/7012.1701)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 179 of 441
 From : Brion Lienhart                      1:213/700.2     .îí 08 .þë 96 14:07
 To   : Brandon Wolgast
 Subj : So, How About That Hunchb
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On Sun Jun 30, Brandon Wolgast said to Frank Glover:

FG>BL>  Esmerelda has the hots for is no prince either. Since everybody dies
FG>BL>  at the end, it's not your typical Disney happy ending.
 -BW>
FG>   You might have refrained from telling us that without warning, though.
 -BW>
 -BW>Don't worry, thats not the ending, he was lying.

That's the way the book ends, not the movie. I hadn't seen the movie at the time
I posted that (saw it yesterday).




--- QM v1.31
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 Msg  : 180 of 441
 From : Brion Lienhart                      1:213/700.2     .îí 08 .þë 96 14:11
 To   : David Johnston
 Subj : Sliders Actually Decent!
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On Mon Jul 01, David Johnston said to Eric Fishbein:

->   Did anyone see the "Invasion" episode this past Fri?  It was
-> actually one o
-> the first decent episode so far.  Most of the time it's been pretty
-> consistant in its lack of inginuity and typical sci-fi fluffyness,
-> but this recent episode was done quite well.

 -DJ>I thought that it was less interesting in its own right than most of
 -DJ>the recent Sliders episodes.

My favorite one this season was the one where they thought they got home. I
liked the part where none of them wanted to believe Quinn, until they saw the
"Golden" Gate Bridge.




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 Msg  : 181 of 441
 From : Brion Lienhart                      1:213/700.2     .îí 08 .þë 96 14:16
 To   : Glenn Shaheen
 Subj : cancelled
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On Sat Jun 29, Glenn Shaheen said to Jeff Hancock:

JH>In fact, some of that "perfectness" may be part of what you don't get.
JH>In space, with no atmosphere to scatter the light, shadows are sharp and
JH>clear, not scattered with an uneven boundary, so something with
JH>ruler-straight defined areas of light and dark is going to look
JH>"unreal"... but that's how it looks in space.
 -GS>        Ohhhh. And you've been in space. There is space dust, however,
 -GS>which would scatter the light.

Watch some of the footage from the Apollo missions sometime. They are a lot
closer to Babylon 5 than Star Trek.



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 Msg  : 182 of 441
 From : Brion Lienhart                      1:213/700.2     .îí 08 .þë 96 14:18
 To   : Frank Glover
 Subj : Re: THEN AND NOW...
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On Mon Jul 01, Frank Glover said to Bob Klahn:

 -FG>  In the sci.nanotech Usenet newsgroup, Vinge's notion of a
 -FG>technological `singularity' is bandied about quite a bit, and most who
 -FG>think it likely at all, see it somewhere in the second half of the
 -FG>21st century. I'm also inclined to agree.

Actually, I like his _Fire Upon the Deep_ even better than _Marooned in Real
Time_. Too bad we're stuck in the slow zone.



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 Msg  : 183 of 441
 From : Brion Lienhart                      1:213/700.2     .îí 08 .þë 96 14:24
 To   : Kay Shapero
 Subj : Re: So, How about that Hunchback?
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On Mon Jul 01, Kay Shapero said to Owen E. Oulton:

 OE>What, that the book has an ending which is "not your typical
 OE>Disney happy ending?"  You'll note that Nicolai does not tell us
 OE>how Disney Bowdlerises the ending, just that the book kills
 OE>everyone off.

 -KS>Er.. Nicolai didn't tell you anything about it - that was Brian
 -KS>Lienhart.

Ahem, BriOn, if you please. 8-(;-)

Anyway I did see the movie yesterday. Right from the begining (even before the
opening title), they set up Judge Frollo to be the (one and only) bad guy.
Instead of being the priest who saves Quasimodo from an angry mob, he is the
judge who chases Quasi's gypsy mother, and causes her to die on the steps of
Notre Dame. Then the Arch Deacon comes out of the cathedral and stops Frollo
from throwing Quasi down the well. This is all in the first minute or two.



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 Msg  : 184 of 441
 From : Brion Lienhart                      1:213/700.2     .îí 08 .þë 96 14:30
 To   : Don Dellmann
 Subj : THEN AND NOW...
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On Wed Jun 26, Don Dellmann said to Bob Klahn:

 BK> Inquiring minds should have something better to do than worry about
 BK> this.
 BK> Can't you just see a revival of live theatre based on people getting
 BK> a thrill out of seeing actual, live, human beings in performance?

 -DD>See if you can find a copy of "The Darfsteller" by Walter M. Miller
 -DD>(won a Hugo as best novelette of 1955, should be in lots of
 -DD>anthologies,
 -DD>I know it's in Doctor A's "The Hugo Winners").

 -DD>Addresses just this situation.

I think I remember that one, except that it was robots replacing real actors,
instead of computer images. Same concept though.




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 Msg  : 185 of 441
 From : Brion Lienhart                      1:213/700.2     .îí 08 .þë 96 14:50
 To   : Frank Glover
 Subj : Re: INCONSISTENT SHADOWS.
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On Tue Jun 25, Frank Glover said to Brion Lienhart:

 -FG>   I don't know any of the plot details, but Niven has a new novel
 -FG>out, `The Ringworld Throne.' Since it's far enough out that the level
 -FG>II hyperdrive is needed to reach it in a reasonable time, more might
 -FG>be said of it there.

It's mainly about Louis Wu, Chmee, and the Hindmost who are already there.
However, there are ships from Human Space, and Kzin ships present at one point.
You don't really need the QII hyperdrive, IIRC they said it was three years at
regular speed, that's what the Hindmost used in Engineers, he just stuck Louis
and Chmee in stasis.




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 Msg  : 186 of 441
 From : Brion Lienhart                      1:213/700.2     .îí 08 .þë 96 14:53
 To   : Todd Sullivan
 Subj : So, How about that Hunchback?
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On Thu Jun 27, Todd Sullivan said to Brion Lienhart:

 -TS>Like most of the fairy tales/stories Disney has "adjusted",
 -TS>"Hunchback" is not a happy story.  All the Grimm's fairy tales were
 -TS>nasty and gruesome. I've read a few of the originals (hard to come by)
 -TS>and they're NOT for children.  They're more like cautionary tales for
 -TS>soon-to-be-adults in the 13-17 year age range.

Yeah, yeah, I've heard that argument before. However they have been considered
childrens stories for the last 100 years or so, and there are many versions of
them around.



--- QM v1.31
 * Origin: Ministry of Peace - Carson City, NV (1:213/700.2)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 187 of 441
 From : Owen E. Oulton                      1:243/45        .îí 08 .þë 96 03:37
 To   : All
 Subj : The Invaders
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Is anyone else out there in the CFCF12 viewing area watching The Invaders at
2:25 am Sundays?  I've caught the last couple of episodes on tape, and I must
say that I'm pleasantly surprised at the show.  I mean, I remembered it as being
pretty good at 10 years of age in its original late '60's run, but after the
recent TV movie on FOX, which I was perfectly appalled at, I wondered whether
the original show was that bad or whether my memory was clouded by 3 intervening
decades.  Kinda makes one wonder if the people who made the FOX abortion ever
actually watched the original show...  :-(

CFN, O

--- Maximus 2.01wb
 * Origin: Pandora's Box, Ottawa, Ont. 613-829-1209 (1:243/45)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 188 of 441
 From : Emilio Ares                         1:379/1         .îí 08 .þë 96 13:42
 To   : Kay Shapero
 Subj : Re: TV shows
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE 1.11+

-=> Quoting Kay Shapero to Don Godfrey <=-

 KS> What do you think of the current Outer Limits?  I haven't been all
 KS> that favorably impressed thus far, though they did a fair job with
 KS> Inconstant Moon (reshown the other night, so I finally got to see the
 KS> opening scenes.)

I've caught some of the episodes that have been syndicated on our UPN
station here in Charlotte, NC.  It isn't that impressive as you say
although it has had its moments.  Do you know if and/or when "Inconstant
Moon" will be released to the syndication market?

Emilio


... Kzin Zen Master: What is the sound of one paw slashing?
--- GEcho 1.11+
 * Origin: The Transporter Room - Online Doom! - 704/567-9513 (1:379/1)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 189 of 441
 From : Todd Sullivan                       1:202/720.3     .cê 07 .þë 96 18:16
 To   : Kevin van Houten
 Subj : B5 Renewed
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Reports from the Interior indicate that Kevin van Houten leaked the following to
Bill Hedrick, re: B5 Renewed

 BH>> hee! Glenn, Todd's so much a Trek fan that he's a Klingon.....

 KvH> Ha!

 KvH> Oh...sorry. Imagining the Todd Sullivan on TREK_HUMOR_FILK as a
 KvH> Klingon.

<grrrrr>

And I thought you were still regenerating...

Todd Sullivan

... The answer to your question is "five tons of flax".

-*- ASTG 1.9

--- Spot 1.3a Unregistered
 * Origin: Todd's Spot in the Continuum (1:202/720.3)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 190 of 441
 From : Glenn Shaheen                       1:3600/7        .óá 06 .þë 96 17:35
 To   : Jeff Hancock
 Subj : cancelled
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

JH>And yes, that would leave them against virtually everyone, Cardiassians,
JH>Romulans, Dominion, and so forth; but still, they ARE Klingons.  You
JH>shouldn't expect them to back down until pushed right up against the
JH>wall, and probably not even then.

        They may be battle happy, but they're not suicidal.

JH>I no longer expect to.  Welcome to the Dixon ranks.

        What, just cause I think models look better than computer
graphics? You may be able to change my opinion about a show that I
barely watch, but you can't change the way I think something LOOKS.

JH>"Gotcha!  That's a real set, you just said that because you think
JH>everything CGI is fake-looking, but you thought it was real until I
JH>suggested otherwise."

        I didn't say it was ALL fake looking, just most of the stuff on
B5 and SAAB.

-=-
 * OLX 2.2 * Copulation - sex between two consenting police officers.

--- SLMAIL v3.5C  (#1540)
 * Origin: Robotech þ Lake City's Music*Demo BBS þ [904] 758*9477 (1:3600/7)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 191 of 441
 From : Michael Harper                      1:123/10        .îí 08 .þë 96 07:31
 To   : Darre LuAllen
 Subj : B5 Renewed
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
While sipping a dry martini, Darre LuAllen told Michael Harper about B5
Renewed...

 DL> Seinfeld?  Isn't he some sort of stand up comic?

 Yep, and a pretty good one, too. Has a fairly good sitcom as well...

 DL> As an ex-Marine, I had a few problems with the SAAB, but on the whole
 DL> I liked it.  It was just different enough to keep my attention.  I
 DL> will be sad to see it go.  BTW, why name a show such that the
 DL> initials spell a car's name?  Hum.  Perhaps it was just a matter of
 DL> marketing that killed our show.

 I've wondered that myself. I guess it was just coincidental that I saw
 more Saab adverts on Fox over the last year... but I thnk what killed
 the show, if anything, was the fact that Fox scheduled it in a bad
 spot. A mediocre slot can ruin a show, and S:AAB was in a bad position
 opposite 60 Minutes, the eight-hundred-tonne-gorilla of CBS Sunday
 nights...

 DL> Yes.  Most of the die hard SF fans have their favorites and don't
 DL> need to attack other shows.  However, it is the fanatic groups which
 DL> seem to have the loudest voices.  Even SF conventions do this.  At
 DL> the recent Dragon*con, Trek had it's own programming track.  One of
 DL> the panels was "B5 and DS9: Seperated at Birth?".  Unfortunately, I
 DL> missed the panel so I can only talk about the impression it left on
 DL> me.  I was irritated that the con organizers were creating panels
 DL> that would put shows head-to-head like that.  Comparison is one
 DL> thing, but some of this goes too far.  On both sides.  BTW, if
 DL> anyone attended the panel, I'd love to hear what was discussed.

 As would I. I'd also like to strangle the moron who came up with the
 title. In some ways, though, the shows were seperated at birth; it's
 long been common knowledge that JMS pitched B5 to Paramount first, and
 they hung onto the treatment for a few months before he got it back.
 The early set designs by Peter Ledger bear a strong resemblance to the
 sets for DS9.

 But a very sweet lady named Barbara Hambly pointed something out to me
 a few years back, and I've kept it in memory ever since. There are only
 two or three basic plots in televisual science fiction, and they're all
 stolen from Westerns. One is "Stagecoach"; that's all of the shipborne
 versions of Trek. One is Dodge City/Fort Apache; that's DS9 and B5. The
 other is cowboys & Indians; S:AAB. This doesn't take X-Files and
 suchlike into account, but for space-based shows, it's dead-on. When
 she told me that, I saw things much more clearly...

 DL> Yes.  Not only in SF, but in all TV programming, networks and studios
 DL> are in some stupid ratings war.  From SF to sitcoms even to
 DL> pro-wrestling, the suits are under the mistaken impression that we
 DL> viewers are going to be loyal to ONE station.  That is so stupid.  I
 DL> have 40 some odd channels on my cable box which I pay hard stolen
 DL> money for.  I'm not going to watch just one of them.  Has anyone
 DL> considered the idea of putting their shows on at different times from
 DL> those of another network?  Imagine the boost it would give both
 DL> shows if Forever Night had advertised during Kindred and vice versa.
 DL> What if Babylon 5 had such an arrangement with SAAB?  Now here's a
 DL> toughie:  If Voyager and DS9 are put out by the same people, then why
 DL> don't they cross advertise?  I mean, regardless of what network they
 DL> are on, Paramount would really only help itself if both shows did
 DL> well.  And the typical station carrying DS9 does  not care where the
 DL> ad money comes from.  The suits are so blind, it's stupid.

 That's the understatement of the millenium.

 Awhile back, we had a near-brush with television history. Two writers
 working for the same studio on different shows for different networks
 met, got started talking, and professed an admiration for each other's
 work. They came up with the notion of a two-part episode, that would
 begin on one show and _cross networks_ to end on the other show. If
 done, the response would have been phenomenal. The networks quashed it.
 The wrote the shows anyway, changing what they had to in order to keep
 from pissing off their employers. But those of us who follow such
 things knew, and were sorely disappointed...

 Their names were Chris Carter and David Kelley, and the shows were
 _X-Files_ and _Picket Fences_. Mudler and Scully would have gone to
 Rome, Wisconsin chasing after an alien-DNA lead. CBS and Fox said no,
 no way.

 And thus did a nice idea die a-borning.


... Elvis Sighting Hotline -- 1-800-I-C-D-KING
--- RA/FD/FMail
 * Origin: The Eclectic Fox -- Memphis TN  (901)327-1008 (1:123/10)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 192 of 441
 From : Michael Harper                      1:123/10        .îí 08 .þë 96 07:31
 To   : Bob Klahn
 Subj : B5 RENEWED
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
While sipping a dry martini, Bob Klahn told Michael Harper about B5 RENEWED...

 MH>  Hey, I can take or leave Seinfeld. There are usually better things to
 MH>  watch. Although Julia Louis-Dreyfus is a serious babe, the rest of the
 MH>  show doesn't really interest me.

 BK> You dirty old man, knew there had to be something good to say about
 BK> you.

 Hey, I've always had a thing for dark-haired elves. Besides, did you
 get a load of that strapless number she wore to the Emmies last year? I
 swear she must've glued it on...

 MH>  I missed the season finale. Has Fox pulled the plug?

 BK> That's the word. I missed it also. Hope the locals re-run it.

 Same here. Damn. I really liked that show, too...

 BK> Yeah, a lot of Trekkies are not SF fans in general. Sorry for them,
 BK> but the growth of SF in general is good for Trek in particular.

 And that's probably the saddest thing you can say about them.

 BK> Respect for the competition is a mark of professionalism. Even in
 BK> WW2, when a major enemy officer was captured the commander would often
 BK> have him over for dinner and drinks.

 Exactly. Joe and Jeri Taylor are old friends, as are most of the staff
 on both shows.

 BK> Well, we aren't married to them. My wife might well get upset if I
 BK> started spending my nights with other women, but doesn't get the least
 BK> disturbed if I have conversations with them.

 True. Wish I could find a lady like that...


... "Bother," said Pooh as NBC cancelled Star Trek.
--- RA/FD/FMail
 * Origin: The Eclectic Fox -- Memphis TN  (901)327-1008 (1:123/10)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 193 of 441
 From : Frank Glover                        1:2613/477      .îí 08 .þë 96 21:43
 To   : Jeff Hancock
 Subj : Re: Japanese SF
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

JH>  just seems like there isn't a whole lot of interest from people who
JH>  aren't already dedicated fans.  Apparently you either are or you
JH>  aren't,
JH>  without any middle ground... At least with standard SF you can watch
JH>  something like ID4 or the occasional Trek without being a die-hard SF
JH>  fan, but it seems there are no casual or moderately interested anime
JH>  viewers in this country.

   I kind of think I am...but you're still correct. I like to wade in it, while
everyone else is either in (off?) the deep end, or out of the pool.

  Frank


--- QuickBBS 2.81 GoldBase (Zeta-2.0b)
 * Origin: The Matrix Data Bank BBS, Rochester, Ny (1:2613/477)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 194 of 441
 From : Frank Glover                        1:2613/477      .îí 08 .þë 96 21:56
 To   : Mark Jones
 Subj : Re: CANCELLED
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

MJ>   BK> The child did not ask for it, and was a minor to begin with. To
MJ>   BK> me interferring with the person's mind is a greater crime than
MJ>   BK> contamination of their culture, or killing the person.
MJ>
MJ>     Amen, brother!  Given the choice between being mindwiped and being
MJ>  executed, I'd pick execution--especially if "I" was going to wind up
MJ>  as Fred Smith, Perfect Citizen, laboring for the greater glory of the
MJ>  state.

   I had to think about that for a moment, but I have to agree with you. If
anything, they're just different degrees of the same thing. In a partial
mindwipe, The Powers That Be let you keep whatever they consider useful. (And
this is a *wipe*, not merely supression of memories that might somehow return.)

   But unless you believe in an afterlife, death is merely a *total* mindwipe
that doesn't leave a still useable body behind....

MJ>     (Ever wonder what happened to the hypnotic chair in the mental
MJ>  institution in the original series?  MY guess is that they're
MJ>  standard
MJ>  equipment in Federation grade schools now.  Which is why the
MJ>  Federation has become such a bland utopian culture.  No wonder they
MJ>  have no qualms about toying with an alien's mind and memory--its
MJ>  standard procedure in their culture!)

   Which brings us to easily abuseable toys like the chair in `Total Recall,'
and the supressed technologies of the A.R.M., and the similarly bland human
culture of Niven's Known Space...until the Kizinti came along, and we were
forced to learn how to kick butt again....

   Frank


--- QuickBBS 2.81 GoldBase (Zeta-2.0b)
 * Origin: The Matrix Data Bank BBS, Rochester, Ny (1:2613/477)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 195 of 441
 From : Frank Glover                        1:2613/477      .îí 08 .þë 96 22:00
 To   : Bob Klahn
 Subj : Re: CANCELLED
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

BK>   I think Vir is what he appears to be. Having typed that line the
BK>   image of Vir smuggling Narns just popped into my head. OK, he's not
BK>   either. Let me think about it, somebody's got to be simply what he
BK>   appears.

   Which reminds me of a lament of Chakotay's, from the first ST:Voyager season:
(to Tuvok) "You were working for her (Janeway), Seska was working for the
Cardassians...was anyone in the Maquis working for me??"

   Frank


--- QuickBBS 2.81 GoldBase (Zeta-2.0b)
 * Origin: The Matrix Data Bank BBS, Rochester, Ny (1:2613/477)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 196 of 441
 From : Frank Glover                        1:2613/477      .îí 08 .þë 96 22:06
 To   : Kay Shapero
 Subj : Re: Sitcom stars
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

KS>  Can't comment on the movie, not having seen it yet, but just out of
KS>  curiosity what sitcom did Brent Spiner act in?  The only thing I can
KS>  recall seeing him in is Star Trek though I'm sure he's done other
KS>  things during his career.

   I understand he gueststarred on Night Court once (among other things, I'm
also sure), but I didn't see it myself.

   Frank


--- QuickBBS 2.81 GoldBase (Zeta-2.0b)
 * Origin: The Matrix Data Bank BBS, Rochester, Ny (1:2613/477)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 197 of 441
 From : Bob Klahn                           1:234/2         .îí 08 .þë 96 17:56
 To   : Gil Richards
 Subj : PARALLEL PORT
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 GR> The cat has jumped onto my print, knocked it over a damaged the cable.
 GR> I have repaired the broken lead on one of the pins, but the computer
 GR> still will not recognize the printer.
 GR> Could it be that a "CIA" chip has beed damaged?
 GR> Any hints on how I can trouble-shoot this?

 Get a new cable, put another printer on it.

 Did you intend for this to go out in the SFFAN echo?

BOB KLAHN

... It's just the IDEA of an inflatable rubber starship that bothers me.
 * Silver Xpress V4.3P RB10275

--- FLAME v1.1
 * Origin: Telnet toltbbs.com or call 313-854-6001, Boardwatch #55 (1:234/2)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 198 of 441
 From : Brandon Wolgast                     1:363/281       .cê 07 .þë 96 21:52
 To   : Glenn Shaheen
 Subj : Id4
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE/32 1.2

GS>-<SPOILER WARNING>-






























GS>        No Wonder the aliens lost, they used computers compatible with
GS>Macs. Great movie though.

Outstanding movie, and the first time I saw it I thought the same thing
but the second time through I realized that was not the case.  Remember
they were using OUR satillites to "beam" their info through, so he fed
his data into our satillites and that is what did it.

Brandon

***
 * OLX 2.1 * "Only Imperial Stormtroopers are so precise." - Obi-Wan

--- Use the FORCE!!!
 * Origin: Feduberator * STAR WARS Support * (407)381-2798 (1:363/281)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 199 of 441
 From : James Walton                        1:129/260       .îí 08 .þë 96 03:36
 To   : All
 Subj : ConFluence '96
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
ConFluence '96 is July 26-28, 1996 at the Sheraton Inn North in Mars PA.
Our Guest of Honor is Nebula Award winner Michael Swanwick.
Please come and join us.

Other guests include:

Catherine Asaro
Flonet Biltgen
C. Dale Brittain
Brenda Clough
Maia Cowan
Kathryn Cramer
John DeChancie
Susan Dexter
Janice Eisen
Timons Esaias
Stephen Fisher
Ron Frenz
Alexis A. Gilliland
David Hartwell
Susan Hutchinson
Alan Irvine
Nancy Janda
Andrew Keith
William H. Keith, Jr.
Fruma Klass
Judy Klass
Morton Klass
Philip Klass  "William Tenn"
Geoffrey Landis
Mary Lee
Jim Mann
Laurie Mann
Ken Meltsner
Christopher Moeller
Robin Nakkula
Charles Oberndorf
Nick Pollotta
John-Allen Price
Ted Reynolds
Kevin Riley
John Taylor
Karen E. Taylor
Mark Tiedemann
Gordon Van Gelder
Kenneth Von Gunden
Gene Wolfe
Robin Wood
Pat York
Sarah Zettel










--- Via Silver Xpress V4.00 SW12427
 * Origin: ConFluence '96:  Return to Mars! (1:129/260)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 200 of 441
 From : Darre LuAllen                       1:3637/1        .îí 08 .þë 96 11:50
 To   : Frank Glover
 Subj : Re: B5 Renewed
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 On 07-06-96 Frank Glover wrote to Darre LuAllen...

 DL>   sad to see it go.  BTW, why name a show such that the initials spell
 DL>  a car's name?  Hum.  Perhaps it was just a matter of marketing that
 DL>  killed our show.
 FG>
 FG>    But only people like us will look for the acronym in a
 FG> TV/movie's name, anyway. Mostly to save our poor fingers.

 Yes, but people like us get into all kinds of trouble, so I guess it's
 allowed to abbreviate.

 FG>    God, what if "The Effect of Gamma Rays on Man in the
 FG> Moon Marigolds" had been SF?

 I wouldn't have anything to do with it.  My poor fingers would fall off.

                                                At your Service,
                                                Darre LuAllen
___
 * OFFLINE 1.56 * Never moon a werewolf.


--- Maximus/2 3.01
 * Origin: Cumberland BBS -TN- V34 (1:3637/1)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 201 of 441
 From : Darre LuAllen                       1:3637/1        .îí 08 .þë 96 12:46
 To   : Paul Worley
 Subj : Genre Music
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 On 07-05-96 Paul Worley wrote to Darre LuAllen...

 PW> Hello Darre!

 Howdee!  'sup?

 DL>      The name of the band is Glass Hammer.  For those of you who

 PW> I was in Atlanta last Year for DragonCon. That was the first I had
 PW> heard of them, and I thought they were just a local band. Maybe with
 PW> our talking about them, they'll get a little more
 PW> exposure!!  (plug, plug!)

 They have a decent following in Poland, Japan and Argentina.  Personally,
 I'd like everyone to get to know them.

 PW> Yes, the do follow the likes of Tull and Yes, both of which
 PW> I grew up listening to as a kid. I like Glass Hammer and
 PW> hope to hear then soon!

 This brings me to a thought (on topic even):  Why is music the lost
 medium for SF/F?  Few bands play music inspired by the genre.  Few movies
 or books speculate on the subject.  Perhaps I'm overlooking something.

                                             At your Service,
                                             Darre LuAllen

 P.S. - What did you think of Dragon*Con?

___
 * OFFLINE 1.56 * Only an idiot would go in there...I'd better get started.


--- Maximus/2 3.01
 * Origin: Cumberland BBS -TN- V34 (1:3637/1)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 202 of 441
 From : Bob Klahn                           1:234/2         .cê 07 .þë 96 09:24
 To   : Lis Carey
 Subj : B5 RENEWED
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 LC> I like Trek, I like B5, I liked SAAB. I do think B5 is the best, but
 LC> SAAB had real potential, if only it had been given more time.

 Yes, it might have won an audience. However, if it was as expensive
 as it is said to be, I can understand their cutting it. I think they
 should have tried to work with it though.

Bob Klahn

... Coffee - the drink of the wired generation.
 * Silver Xpress V4.02B03 RB10275

--- FLAME v1.1
 * Origin: Telnet toltbbs.com or call 313-854-6001, Boardwatch #55 (1:234/2)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 203 of 441
 From : Bob Klahn                           1:234/2         .cê 07 .þë 96 09:24
 To   : Nicolai Shapero
 Subj : CANCELLED
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 NS> On <Jul 03 17:30>, Bob Klahn (1:234/2) wrote to Nicolai Shapero:

 BK>> We did not start the war, we just, well, I was going to say,
 BK>>"won it", but
 BK>> we really didn't. We just chased the Iraqis out of Kuwait.

 NS> By definition, we won.

 Exactly the same way we won the Korean War.

 NS>> (They may well be proven to be evil in the end, but it's by no means

 BK>> They may not be evil in the end, but that's the way I'm betting.

 NS> We shall see.  Remember, though, "no one is what they appear to be" on
 NS> Babylon 5...

 If you are trying to say the plot is just a teensy bit convoluted, I
 can't dispute that.

 I think Vir is what he appears to be. Having typed that line the
 image of Vir smuggling Narns just popped into my head. OK, he's not
 either. Let me think about it, somebody's got to be simply what he
 appears.

Bob Klahn

... Never trust political advice from a man without children.
 * Silver Xpress V4.02B03 RB10275

--- FLAME v1.1
 * Origin: Telnet toltbbs.com or call 313-854-6001, Boardwatch #55 (1:234/2)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 204 of 441
 From : Bob Klahn                           1:234/2         .cê 07 .þë 96 09:24
 To   : Frank Swarbrick
 Subj : CANCELLED
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 BK>> Ok, now that we have that settled, let me move on to the next part.
 BK>> Do you recall what happened to the little girl at the end? She was

 ...

 FS> Actually, we're talking about two different episodes.  I was talking
 FS> about "Homeward" (seventh season), while you're talking about "Pen
 FS> Pals" (second season).  I'm not sure which one the original message
 FS> writer was talking about!  Anyway, I hadn't thought about it, but they
 FS> are similarly themed.

 So similar we didn't even realize, at first, that we were talking
 about two different episodes.

 BK>> As far as I am concerned wiping her memory was the greater crime. The
 BK>> child did not ask for it, and was a minor to begin with. To me
 BK>> interferring with the person's mind is a greater crime than
 BK>> contamination of their culture, or killing the person.

 BK>> That was also what happened to Worf's brother if you recall. They
 BK>> wiped his memory to keep him from killing himself. Sorry, they are

 ...

 FS> Definately.  Especially without his permission, and when he committed
 FS> no crime.  If he ever finds out Sisko and Worf better watch their
 FS> backs!  I'm sure he, Kurn or not, would be outraged!

 Yes, there is always the possibility of residual memory returning.
 They did have to leave enough memory for him to function, so, unless
 they have very subtle tools, I'd bet all they did was suppress his
 identity.

 Of course, if they had tools like that, interrogation would be the
 simplest thing in the world. You just take your prisoner, and
 suppress his feelings of loyalty.

 That's what I don't like about making things too simple, the
 complications get to be too great.

Bob Klahn

...           ) <--  Button       ( <--  Button pushed
 * Silver Xpress V4.02B03 RB10275

--- FLAME v1.1
 * Origin: Telnet toltbbs.com or call 313-854-6001, Boardwatch #55 (1:234/2)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 205 of 441
 From : Nicolai Shapero                     1:102/524       .cê 07 .þë 96 09:21
 To   : Frank Glover
 Subj : Re: OUTER LIMITS
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Jul 04 19:24>, Frank Glover (1:2613/477) wrote to Nicolai Shapero:

 FG>   Oh yeah, no doubt. But the point was that one side in both The
 FG>Terminator and Soldier depend on what today is a common house
 FG>pet.

That's really stretching the point.  They both depended on ranged weapons, as
well.  So?

-- Nicolai Shapero, the Mad Russian Sysop of StormGate Aerie

--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 206 of 441
 From : Nicolai Shapero                     1:102/524       .cê 07 .þë 96 09:24
 To   : Mark Jones
 Subj : Sliders Actually Decent!
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Jul 02 23:13>, Mark Jones (1:105/302.47) wrote to Nicolai Shapero:

 MJ>worldlines.  The kromags will simultaneously conquer, fail to
 MJ>conquer,
 MJ>and be conquered *by* every world they attack....

I don't think that the producers have thought along those lines.  I think they
regard the cross time travellers as "outside" the deviation limits.  Either that
or "their actions don't generate new timelines, because one individual is
incapable of really changing a society enough to 'make a difference'".  Double
Feh!

-- Nicolai Shapero, the Mad Russian Sysop of StormGate Aerie

--- msged 2.06
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Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 207 of 441
 From : Nicolai Shapero                     1:102/524       .cê 07 .þë 96 09:29
 To   : Todd Sullivan
 Subj : B5 Renewed
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Jul 04 19:01>, Todd Sullivan (1:202/720.3) wrote to Bill Hedrick:

 TS>And now, for the $128,000, what would I be in B5?
 TS><hehehe>
 TS>Todd Sullivan

And just what do YOU want....

:-)

-- Nicolai Shapero, the Mad Russian Sysop of StormGate Aerie

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Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 208 of 441
 From : Nicolai Shapero                     1:102/524       .cê 07 .þë 96 09:30
 To   : Bob Klahn
 Subj : CANCELLED
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Jul 05 22:37>, Bob Klahn (1:234/2) wrote to Nicolai Shapero:

 BK> As to the First Ones, how would anyone know? The ones we know
 BK>could be the
 BK> 13th ones and *we* would have no way of knowing.

Statement from Delenn.  We have to assume that the writer doesn't lie to us TOO
much, though.

-- Nicolai Shapero, the Mad Russian Sysop of StormGate Aerie

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Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 209 of 441
 From : Nicolai Shapero                     1:102/524       .cê 07 .þë 96 09:33
 To   : Frank Swarbrick
 Subj : CANCELLED
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Jul 04 21:20>, Frank Swarbrick (1:104/825) wrote to Nicolai Shapero:

 FS>The only problem with this is that they usually don't even get
 FS>word on
 FS>renewal until after the season is over.  So how are they going to
 FS>manage this?

Nowadays, it seems as though the producers get the word a good deal earlier.
Heck, the way B5 has been delivering episodes JUST in time for airing, they'd
likely have the word before everything was committed (though if JMS is clever,
he'll have a "wrap-up" episode ready BEFORE he gets the word, one way or
another...)

-- Nicolai Shapero, the Mad Russian Sysop of StormGate Aerie

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Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 210 of 441
 From : Nicolai Shapero                     1:102/524       .cê 07 .þë 96 09:35
 To   : Frank Swarbrick
 Subj : cancelled
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Jul 04 21:23>, Frank Swarbrick (1:104/825) wrote to Nicolai Shapero:

 FS>Weallll, I wouldn't say 8 to 10 times.  From what I hear a B5
 FS>episode
 FS>is about $600,000, while Voyager is about $2 million.

I'd heard 150k for B5, and 1.5-2 million for ST:Voyager.

-- Nicolai Shapero, the Mad Russian Sysop of StormGate Aerie

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Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 211 of 441
 From : Nicolai Shapero                     1:102/524       .cê 07 .þë 96 09:36
 To   : Leman Russ
 Subj : Japanese SF
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Jul 04 04:59>, Leman Russ (1:2250/7) wrote to All:

 LR> There's a lotof good SF out there in the form of Japanese Anime
 LR>and mangas that I guess people don;t access because I never see
 LR>anyone here but me discussing it, and that's a shame because
 LR>they've got some good stuff that shouldn't be missed.

Granted, Dirty Pair is more than mildly entertaining.  But have you noticed just
how difficult it is to find them IN TRANSLATION?  Sorry, old chap, most of us
here don't speak Japanese, and there are only so many things you can say about
four or five episodes of a series.

-- Nicolai Shapero, the Mad Russian Sysop of StormGate Aerie

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Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 212 of 441
 From : Kay Shapero                         1:102/524       .cê 07 .þë 96 14:04
 To   : Owen E. Oulton
 Subj : Re: So, How about that Hunchback?
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Jul 04 21:10>, Owen E. Oulton (1:243/45) wrote to Kay Shapero:

 OE>I can only state in my defense that...  Hell, I can't say
 OE>anything at all in my defense - I have absloutely no idea why I
 OE>typed Nicolai instead of Brian... Perhaps in an alternate
 OE>timeline Nicolai wrote the original message, and Fido did a
 OE>Paratime hiccup.  Verkan Vall will be checking the whole thing
 OE>out as soon as he arrests Quinn, Wade, Arturo and the Cryin' Man.
 OE>Yeah, that's probably it...  :-)

ROFL!!!!

I'll go along with that. :->

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 Msg  : 213 of 441
 From : Kay Shapero                         1:102/524       .cê 07 .þë 96 14:10
 To   : Glenn Shaheen
 Subj : ID4
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Jul 03 19:05>, Glenn Shaheen (1:3600/7) wrote to All:

 GS>-<SPOILER WARNING>-






























 GS>        No Wonder the aliens lost, they used computers compatible
 GS>with Macs. Great movie though.

Hey, at least they didn't use Windows...  <g,d,&r>

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Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 214 of 441
 From : Kay Shapero                         1:102/524       .cê 07 .þë 96 14:20
 To   : Darre LuAllen
 Subj : B5 Renewed
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Jul 04 15:37>, Darre LuAllen (1:3637/1) wrote to Michael Harper:

 DL>recent
 DL> Dragon*con, Trek had it's own programming track.  One of the
 DL>panels was "B5 and DS9: Seperated at Birth?".  Unfortunately, I
 DL>missed the panel so I can only talk about the impression it left on
 DL>me.  I was irritated that the con organizers were creating panels
 DL>that would put shows head-to-head like that.  Comparason is one
 DL>thing, but some of this goes too far.  On both sides.  BTW, if
 DL>anyone attended the panel, I'd love to hear what was discussed.
 DL>

I wasn't at Dragon*con, so can't say, but here's what JMS requested be passed on
to the programmers of a similar panel title at an Arisia awhile back. I agree
with him.:

     STAR TREK VS. B5.  You who programmed this panel, you who determined theme
and direction, who put the Vs. in the title...have you learned nothing from
experience?  Do any of you, who organize conventions and do so out of a
professed love and familiarity with science fiction, remember September 1966?
That was the year a little science fiction series called STAR TREK debuted on
network television, one year exactly after the premiere of LOST IN SPACE in
September 1965.  STAR TREK, which was panned by reviewers and fans alike who,
out of a perceived loyalty to the previous show, described it as nothing more
than a cheap attempt to cash in on the success of LOST IN SPACE.  LOST was the
established norm, TREK the impudent newcomer, a throwback some said from the
strong family drama of LOST.  TREK fans said that this was unfair, that their
show shouldn't have to be compared to LOST IN SPACE, that it should be taken on
its own merit.

     "Those who do not remember the past are condemned to repeat it."

     There is no STAR TREK VS. B5 except in the minds of those who would profit
from continuing feuds on either side of the fictional picket fence. Why not
CAGNEY & LACEY VS. NYPD BLUE?  They're both cop shows.  Why is the one
predicated upon the other?  What happened to IDIC, Infinite Diversity in Infinte
Combinations?  Should it be celebrated only in concept, not execution?  The
science fiction community is composed of brilliant dreamers, practical
visionaries, afficianados, costumers, craftspeople...and feuds, in equal
measure.  And whichever "side" folks come down on at this panel, B5 or ST, it's
an exercise in factionalization that achieves nothing because there IS no VS, no
OR; it's B5 *and* Star Trek *and* Lost in Space *and* The Prisoner *and* Space:
Above and Beyond.  Because the future of science fiction is in the cross
pollinization of ideas, the interbreeding -- after proper introductions dinners
and flowers -- of dreams and visions and extrapolations, which in time results
in the birth of new dreams, new ideas, and new visions.  Absent that, the
species, and the genre, dies.

     Yes, it is possible to explore, compare and contrast the methods of
storytelling, the effects, the structure and the acting of any two series; that
is the point of the And.  In Ali vs. Frasier, the Axis vs. the Allies, Truman
vs. Dewey, OJ Simpson vs. an inconvenient truth, there can only be one left
standing at the end.  But in science fiction, we all stand together, protecting
and sharing our diverse dreams, or we do not stand at all.


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Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 215 of 441
 From : Kay Shapero                         1:102/524       .cê 07 .þë 96 14:33
 To   : Jared Callanan
 Subj : Sitcom stars
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Jul 05 12:50>, Jared Callanan (1:324/127) wrote to All:

 JC>       The Movie was full of comedians, every actor in the movie
 JC>was either a comedian or a former sitcom star.

Can't comment on the movie, not having seen it yet, but just out of curiosity
what sitcom did Brent Spiner act in?  The only thing I can recall seeing him in
is Star Trek though I'm sure he's done other things during his career.

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Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 216 of 441
 From : Kay Shapero                         1:102/524       .cê 07 .þë 96 14:29
 To   : Frank Swarbrick
 Subj : CANCELLED
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Jul 04 21:20>, Frank Swarbrick (1:104/825) wrote to Nicolai Shapero:

 FS>The only problem with this is that they usually don't even get
 FS>word on renewal until after the season is over.  So how are they
 FS>going to manage this?

 FS>They *have* to go the full five!  :-)

They'd better, or my bet is there'll be a large, JMS shaped hole through every
producer in Warners... :->

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Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 217 of 441
 From : Kay Shapero                         1:102/524       .cê 07 .þë 96 14:34
 To   : Gerry Normandeau
 Subj : B5 Tech
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Jul 05 03:38>, Gerry Normandeau (1:163/430) wrote to David Johnston:

 GN>I don't remember, but in that episode did the captain of the
 GN>earth ship ever
 GN>even try to contact the Mimbari ship and ask "Just why do you
 GN>have your weapons
 GN>out and pointed at us for?"

Nope, he just panicked and opened fire.

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 Msg  : 218 of 441
 From : Henry Triplett                      1:106/564       .òp 09 .þë 96 08:19
 To   : KAY SHAPERO
 Subj : CGI vs Models
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

-=> Quoting Kay Shapero to Henry Triplett <=-

 KS> What I find interesting, or maybe alarming, is the number of folks
 KS> turning up  on echoes like this one who have manifestly never seen the
 KS> films of the  various moon landings and similar items.  Even with dust

Interesting and alarming are good words.  So is frightening!   Of course
the fellow in question probably just put his blinders on because he didn't
want to deal with the reality at hand.  (CGI will render [has rendered]
models obsolete just as the blue screen eliminated the use of strings to
hold up models.)

 KS> temporarily kicked up  by the landing or the lunar rover, the shadows
 KS> are pretty sharp.  And of course  there are a lot of more recent
 KS> pictures from the space shuttle and the like.   Even at a distance, you
 KS> get the same clean outlines and sharp division between  light and
 KS> shadow.

Too true!  Like I said in another post, literally hundreds of thousands of
photos all show the same thing.  Any predicted problems resulting from space
dust are caused by the speeds one must travel to make reasonable interstellar
trips.  Not by the quantity of the dust itself.

 KS> Of course the reason for the "whoosh" as the Enterprise crosses the
 KS> screen in  Original Trek was NOT because the makers didn't know there's
 KS> no sound in a  vacuum.  It was because when they did test showings
 KS> before a live audience, the  latter didn't find the opening as
 KS> "convincing" without them.  So they were  added on the same basis as
 KS> the background music.

Yep!  And I shamelessly agreed with them.

 KS> Speaking of CGI, it would appear that life action special effects and
 KS> animated  film continue on their collision course.  I saw Disney's

        <snip>

On a similar note, I saw the movie "Dragonheart" awhile back.  While not
perfect, I found the CGI dragon with Sean Connery's voice (Drago) to be
quite convincing.   I suspect this will lead to more CGI characters in
films in the future.  Who knows, we may well see a Pierson's Puppeteer on
the screen in our lifetime.

Henry

... Talk funny Zathras does.  Related to Yoda he is!

___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20 [NR]
--- GEcho 1.00
 * Origin: Eat Flaming Death    Houston Texas    713-447-1927 (1:106/564)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 219 of 441
 From : Nicolai Shapero                     1:102/524       .îí 08 .þë 96 05:40
 To   : Henry Triplett
 Subj : CGI vs Models
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Jul 06 21:23>, Henry Triplett (1:106/564) wrote to NICOLAI SHAPERO:

 HT>Thanks again.  Kay informed me of same earlier.  Curious that
 HT>anyone would
 HT>start off using models so heavily in this day and age.  I guess
 HT>it's a
 HT>matter of going with what they're comfortable with.

"But we've ALWAYS done it this way.  It was good enough for grampaw..."

Feh!

-- Nicolai Shapero, the Mad Russian Sysop of StormGate Aerie

--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 220 of 441
 From : Nicolai Shapero                     1:102/524       .îí 08 .þë 96 05:41
 To   : David Johnston
 Subj : Re: Cancelled
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Jul 07 01:09>, David Johnston (1:342/14) wrote to Nicolai Shapero:

 DJ>Torture:  Infliction of or subjection to extreme physical pain,
 DJ>or great
 DJ>mental suffering.

By that definition, any punishment is torture.  You think not?  Consider what a
five to ten year sentence "on a pillow of stone" amounts to.  "Great mental
suffering" comes to mind immediately.  And before you start quoting Webster
(yes, I am aware of the definition of "torture"), I still do not believe that it
fits in this instance.

-- Nicolai Shapero, the Mad Russian Sysop of StormGate Aerie



--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 221 of 441
 From : Nicolai Shapero                     1:102/524       .îí 08 .þë 96 05:47
 To   : Gil Richards
 Subj : parallel port
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Jul 07 04:25>, Gil Richards (1:102/852) wrote to All:

 GR>The cat has jumped onto my print, knocked it over a damaged the
 GR>cable.
 GR>I have repaired the broken lead on one of the pins, but the
 GR>computer still will not recognize the printer.

Methinks that you are on the wrong conference.  This is the SFFAN conference,
echoed internationally, and is devoted to Science Fiction Fandom and Fan run
conventions.

-- Nicolai Shapero, Moderator of the SFFAN echo

--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 222 of 441
 From : Kay Shapero                         1:102/524       .îí 08 .þë 96 07:45
 To   : David Johnston
 Subj : Cancelled
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Jul 07 01:04>, David Johnston (1:342/14) wrote to Kay Shapero:

 DJ>something to trade is only common sense.  But the Prime, as
 DJ>applied in
 DJ>the modern series, is far more sweeping and has been elevated to
 DJ>the status of an absolute moral principle, rather than a pragmatic
 DJ>policy.

Except when it would get in the way of the plot, anyway...  :->  Most likely an
effect of it's having been around so long - you remember how Kirk & co used to
treat it.

--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 223 of 441
 From : Kay Shapero                         1:102/524       .îí 08 .þë 96 12:15
 To   : Bob Klahn
 Subj : Tech Level Talk
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Jul 06 15:40>, Bob Klahn (1:234/2) wrote to Kay Shapero:

 KS> species, like each individual, is different. (and we're back to David
 KS> Brin's Uplift universe, where the human race uses the Library to
 KS> suggest areas of investigation, but avoids depending on it.)

 BK> Which is the correct way to do it.

Indeed.  Very sensible of them.  (Are you sure that's *our* human race?  :->)

--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 224 of 441
 From : Kay Shapero                         1:102/524       .îí 08 .þë 96 12:10
 To   : Bob Klahn
 Subj : SABOTAGING BABYLON
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Jul 06 15:40>, Bob Klahn (1:234/2) wrote to Kay Shapero:

 KS> (It is, too - we've got two trailers used for overflow, conversation and
 KS> whatnont - one named DS8, the other Babylon 4.  The latter frequently
 KS> has a TV in it since B5 is on during the LASFS club meetings.)

 BK> Gotta change the name of B4, now that it's been sent back in
 BK>time. Either that or you will age drastically every time you come
 BK>back out into the the world.

Nope, we just keep it out of time warps.  Of course it can be argued that LASFS
*is* a time warp.  Well, warped anyway.... :->

--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 225 of 441
 From : Leman Russ                          1:2250/7        .îí 08 .þë 96 02:03
 To   : Bob Klahn
 Subj : Re: MINBARI AND B5
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 You're a calvin and hobbes fhan too? maybethere's hope for you yet ;).

 On the subject of how to greet alien races, if we think on this much, we see
that it may not be possible to greet an alien species without causing trouble.
For example, if you make a peaceful greeting towards some races they may take it
as weakness and attacxk you. Ifyou make a defensive posture they make take it as
a threat and attack, ad infinitum...

 Remember STTMP? Apparently V'ger mistook epsilon 9s sensors as an attack or as
a weapons lock and destroyed it. Likewise V'ger mistook enterprises "failure" to
reply as hostility and attacked.

 When we finally contact an alien race I sure hope they know what to do...

>:[

--- DLG Pro v1.0/DLGMail
 * Origin: Sage's Tower - Amiga - (618) 259-1844 (1:2250/7)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 226 of 441
 From : Leman Russ                          1:2250/7        .îí 08 .þë 96 02:07
 To   : All
 Subj : more CGI defense..
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 I justwanted to add something to my defense of CGI. There are shots and effects
that can be done with cgi that CANNOT be made with models, period.

 For example, morphing. What's the only morphing you can do without cgi?
Claymation or normal animation, neither of which work as well as cgi morphs.

 Also, look at the flying spiders of B5. That "writhing" slivery-black texture
oftheres could not be done by any model technique I know of, and I;ve studied
the topic.

 So I think we should all face it: CGI will replace models soon because you can
do everything with cgi you can do with models, and models can't do things cgi
can do, and cgi is cheaper and easier once you';ve got it down.

>:[

--- DLG Pro v1.0/DLGMail
 * Origin: Sage's Tower - Amiga - (618) 259-1844 (1:2250/7)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 227 of 441
 From : Leman Russ                          1:2250/7        .îí 08 .þë 96 02:31
 To   : All
 Subj : but about models...
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 Threre is one thing to say for models, tho: You can hang a model inthe
smithsonian, like the original enterprise. Try putting a CGI in a museum.

 Speaking of models, I wonder whatever happened to the excellent models seen in
"Battlestar Galactica"? Now that'd be a series to do with CGI on the SF network!

>:[

--- DLG Pro v1.0/DLGMail
 * Origin: Sage's Tower - Amiga - (618) 259-1844 (1:2250/7)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 228 of 441
 From : Leman Russ                          1:2250/7        .îí 08 .þë 96 04:41
 To   : All
 Subj : cgi
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 I think cgi does a great job making creatures for shows like hercules andwill
do so for other creatures as the tech improves. That's another reason cgi will
replace models: Models are attheoir peak, cgi will keep improving. Already
insome cases people can;t tell cgi from real things, like in Jumangi.

>:[

--- DLG Pro v1.0/DLGMail
 * Origin: Sage's Tower - Amiga - (618) 259-1844 (1:2250/7)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 229 of 441
 From : Don Dellmann                        1:154/750       .òp 09 .þë 96 09:29
 To   : Brion Lienhart
 Subj : THEN AND NOW...
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: FastEcho 1.45b.b2 8060
While tripping merrily through the mail, Brion Lienhart was overheard

 -DD>See if you can find a copy of "The Darfsteller" by Walter M. Miller
 -DD>(won a Hugo as best novelette of 1955, should be in lots of
 -DD>anthologies,
 -DD>I know it's in Doctor A's "The Hugo Winners").

 -DD>Addresses just this situation.

 BL> I think I remember that one, except that it was robots replacing real
 BL> actors, instead of computer images. Same concept though.

That's the one.

Don

... I say, put Schroedinger in the box & see how HE likes it.
---
 * Origin: *YOPS ]I[* 3.1 GIG * RA/FD/FE RADist * Milwaukee, WI (1:154/750)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 230 of 441
 From : Brion Lienhart                      1:213/700.2     .òp 09 .þë 96 10:09
 To   : Jeff Hancock
 Subj : The sf channel
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On Thu Jun 27, Jeff Hancock said to Charles Daniels:

CD>..and there was a young female officer in love with a tank.

 -JH>Was this a case of devout respect for fine machinery, or was the tank
 -JH>a
 -JH>sentient A.I., or was it just kinky?

If it was Tank Police, it's more like that Napolean (the tank) is Lena's baby,
and nobody better mess with it. IIRC, she modified it herself from an older
obsolete tank. It's like somebody who has a classic car that they really like.



--- QM v1.31
 * Origin: Ministry of Peace - Carson City, NV (1:213/700.2)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 231 of 441
 From : David Little                        1:106/7315      .îí 08 .þë 96 10:18
 To   : Henry Triplett
 Subj : CGI vs Models
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
-=< Henry Triplett used the Jedi Mind Trick on me!>=-


 NS> Guys, SAAB used models for most of their effects, not CGI.

 HT> Thanks again.  Kay informed me of same earlier.  Curious that anyone
 HT> would start off using models so heavily in this day and age.  I guess
 HT> it's a  matter of going with what they're comfortable with.

        You can have "Happy Accidents" with models that cannot be programmed
into CGIs. Even still, you can almost always point out the CGI items because
the pixelization is still there.

                                        -=The DoLittle 8-)=-


... What do Imperial troops drink at Christmas time?  Egg-Noghri!
--- Blue Wave/DOS v2.30 [NR]
 * Origin: The Wizards Realm BBS 1-713-946-7315 1:106/7315 (1:106/7315)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 232 of 441
 From : James Walton                        1:129/260       .òp 09 .þë 96 17:22
 To   : Nicolai Shapero
 Subj : Japanese SF
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 NS> Granted, Dirty Pair is more than mildly entertaining.  But
 NS> have you noticed just how difficult it is to find them IN
 NS> TRANSLATION?  Sorry, old chap, most of us here don't speak
 NS> Japanese, and there are only so many things you can say
 NS> about four or five episodes of a series.

Most translation of Japanese Anime/Asian Fantasy is done by small groups of fans
who trade the tapes and disks back and forth.  The Dirty Pair is difficult to
find in English because it is too old.
I have been unable to find a legal copy of the anime of Starship Troopers,
because it is too old.
A lot of the newer stuff is available on Laser Disk and has two soundtracks
which you can toggle back and forth.
In my city, Pittsburgh, there are several small but very active Anime/Asian
Fantasy clubs.  I attend meetings to watch the anime.

---
 * Origin: Up in James' Attic, (412)-431-2891,  (1:129/260)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 233 of 441
 From : James Walton                        1:129/260       .òp 09 .þë 96 17:29
 To   : Kay Shapero
 Subj : Sitcom stars
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 KS> Can't comment on the movie, not having seen it yet, but just
 KS> out of curiosity what sitcom did Brent Spiner act in?  The
 KS> only thing I can recall seeing him in is Star Trek though
 KS> I'm sure he's done other things during his career.

He was in at least 2 episodes of "Night Court."
---
 * Origin: Up in James' Attic, (412)-431-2891,  (1:129/260)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 234 of 441
 From : Darre LuAllen                       1:3637/1        .òp 09 .þë 96 11:04
 To   : Kay Shapero
 Subj : B5 Renewed
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 On 07-07-96 Kay Shapero wrote to Darre LuAllen...

 DL>recent
 DL> Dragon*con, Trek had it's own programming track.  One of the
 DL>panels was "B5 and DS9: Seperated at Birth?".  Unfortunately, I

 KS> I wasn't at Dragon*con, so can't say, but here's what JMS
 KS> requested be passed on to the programmers of a similar
 KS> panel title at an Arisia awhile back. I agree with him.:
 KS>
 KS>      STAR TREK VS. B5.  You who programmed this panel, you who

 [...]

 KS> some said from the strong family drama of LOST.  TREK fans
 KS> said that this was unfair, that their show shouldn't have
 KS> to be compared to LOST IN SPACE, that it should be taken
 KS> on its own merit.

 Yep.  These people who are involved remind me of gangs fighting

 over turf in an inner city ghetto.  "It may be a pile of rubble,
 but it is OUR pile of rubble."  Which brings me to my next point:
 if Trek is all about universal understanding and equality, then
 why do Trek fans get so militant about other shows?  I do not mean
 to imply that Trek fans are the only ones doing this.  However, I
 do seem to see more of them doing it.  Perhaps I'm just seeing what I
 want to see.

 However, a snail friend (as opposed to an e-friend) comes up and watches
 my tapes of B5 with me.  He is very vocal, and keeps going on about
 how he can't see how "Trekkies think their stupid show is better."
 Personally, I prefer B5 to Trek.  However, I find myself in the strange
 position of having to defend Trek.

 Back to the question, though.  Folks, these are science fiction shows
 created to entertain and perhaps inform.  Trek shows us a beautiful
 vision of a future perfect.  Babylon 5 shows us what will happen if we
 continue squabbling about petty stuff.  Frankly, I'd rather live in
 the Trek universe, but I have to believe in the unchanging nature of
 man.

 KS>      "Those who do not remember the past are condemned to repeat it."

 Those who refuse to learn are condemned to stupidity.  Those who do not
 open their minds to infinite possibilities will never know the pure bliss
 of touching the face of God.  Those who refuse to accept the validity of
 others will never know the peace of acceptance.  I could go on, but I
 think I've yapped enough.  What I'm trying to say is, some people will
 refuse to change regardless of the stimuli.  These people are looking
 for a reason to feel that they are in the right mind, right place and
 right message.  They compare theirs to everyone elses to prove to
 themselves that they are right and superior.  Let them compare.  And
 while they waste their energies on such, I will be enjoying ALL the
 fruits of the intellectual garden with the same energy.

 I'll tell it on the mountain:  I like Babylon 5, Star Trek, Forever
 Knight, Highlander, Kindred, Sliders, SAAB and countless others past
 through the future.

 KS> But in science fiction, we all
 KS> stand together, protecting and sharing our diverse dreams,
 KS> or we do not stand at all.


 I wish this was short enough to be a tagline.  I will print this out,
 and perhaps have it done up as a t-shirt or button.  However, I'm lost.
 Do I credit this to JMS or KS?

                                        At your Service,
                                        Darre LuAllen
___
 * OFFLINE 1.56 * I got lost in thought. It was unfamiliar territory.

--- Maximus/2 3.01
 * Origin: Cumberland BBS -TN- V34 (1:3637/1)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 235 of 441
 From : Darre LuAllen                       1:3637/1        .òp 09 .þë 96 11:49
 To   : Frank Swarbrick
 Subj : Genre Music + ID4 verdic
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 On 07-05-96 Frank Swarbrick wrote to Darre Luallen...

 DL> know if  music is off-topic here, I'll keep this short.
 DL> The name of the band is Glass Hammer.  For those of you who have
 DL> heard of them, then you know this.  Their first album was wholly
 DL> inspired  by the _Lord of the Rings_.  Their second album is not

 FS> If you're a fan of this kind of music you should check out the
 FS> 60'S70'SPROGROCK echo (if you don't get it already).  It's actually
 FS> not limited to the 60's and 70's, but they've never gotten around to
 FS> changing the name.  Anyway, I've not yet heard the Glass Hammer CD,
 FS> but I keep meaning too...  Now if I could actually find it at a local
 FS> store...!

 I'll have to see if my sysop can get that one.  As for finding their CD,
 I've a toll free number which their marketing people gave me.  I'm sure
 that it's their order number.  If you'd like, I could try to send it
 to you through netmail.

 DL> In an attempt to make sure I'm on topic, just saw _ID4_ last
 DL> night.  My verdict:  GO SEE THIS MOVIE!  Nitpickers might not like it,
 DL> but I grew  up on re-runs of the 50's invasion movies.  I loved _ID4_.
 DL> I think a lot  of people will also.  As far as movies go, it isn't
 DL> perfect.  However, it  is pretty good.

 FS> I agree.  It had many faults, certainly, but I loved it!

 For those of you who haven't seen it yet, why not?  Sit in the middle of
 the theater (with a good sound system).

 FS> now playing:  "Pseudo Silk Kimono" --Marillion

 You quote Queensryche and Marillion.  I have to say that you have great
 taste in music.

                                               On Vocals,
                                               Darre LuAllen
___
 * OFFLINE 1.56 * I drank WHAT!?!


--- Maximus/2 3.01
 * Origin: Cumberland BBS -TN- V34 (1:3637/1)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 236 of 441
 From : Darre LuAllen                       1:3637/1        .òp 09 .þë 96 14:30
 To   : Jeff Hancock
 Subj : Japanese SF
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 On 07-07-96 Jeff Hancock wrote to Leman Russ...

 JH> Anyway, I've offered to copy some of the noncommercial fansubbed anime


 Really???  Let's talk...  Pro'ly better to take it to netmail.

 JH> I have in a number of echoes, and have had zero requests to date, so it
 JH> just seems like there isn't a whole lot of interest from people who
 JH> aren't already dedicated fans.  Apparently you either are or you
 JH> aren't,
 JH> without any middle ground... At least with standard SF you can watch
 JH> something like ID4 or the occasional Trek without being a die-hard SF
 JH> fan, but it seems there are no casual or moderately interested anime
 JH> viewers in this country.

 I'd like to consider myself a casual anime viewer.  I might become a
 die hard fan, but I just don't have the time.  Recently I discovered
 _Bubblegum Crisis_ and _Bubblegum Crash_.  Unfortunately, the tape I
 borrowed for Crisis was very bad and I could not watch it completely.
 I've always liked Macross/Robotech.

 Perhaps the most amazing anime I ever saw was a tape a friend had.
 Seems there was a convention in Japan and the con staff asked for
 a fan created, anime opening scene.  The stuff produced by high school
 kids (or their equivalent) rivaled what the professionals at Disney
 turn out.  The semi-pro works were better than anything I've seen in
 the States.  Kinda makes me miss living on Okinawa.

                                                At your Service,
                                                Darre LuAllen
___
 * OFFLINE 1.56 * Black belts aren't bullet-proof.



--- Maximus/2 3.01
 * Origin: Cumberland BBS -TN- V34 (1:3637/1)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 237 of 441
 From : Darre LuAllen                       1:3637/1        .òp 09 .þë 96 14:48
 To   : Kay Shapero
 Subj : Id4
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 On 07-07-96 Kay Shapero wrote to Glenn Shaheen...

 On <Jul 03 19:05>, Glenn Shaheen (1:3600/7) wrote to All:

 -<SPOILER WARNING>-



 -<Seriously, this is a SPOILER>-



 -<And a bad joke warning.>-


















 GS>        No Wonder the aliens lost, they used computers compatible
 GS>with Macs. Great movie though.

 KS> Hey, at least they didn't use Windows...  <g,d,&r>

 I was under the impression that was what was uploaded to cripple
 the shields.  <BG w/gleam>

                                       At your Service,
                                       Darre LuAllen

 "He had a gleam in his eye.  I thought I had thought him to brush his
  teeth better than that."
___
 * OFFLINE 1.56

--- Maximus/2 3.01
 * Origin: Cumberland BBS -TN- V34 (1:3637/1)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 238 of 441
 From : David Johnston                      1:342/14        .pä 10 .þë 96 01:06
 To   : Lis Carey
 Subj : Cancelled
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
-> Fatal recessives would quickly be bred out. Non-fatal but damaging
-> recessives would be more of a problem, but could be dealt with. The
-> _real_ long-term problem with inbreeding is that after a few
-> generations, there's no longer any genetic variety in the group -
-> everybody has practically the same set of genes - and therefore any
-> new disease which can kill one, can probably kill all, or at least
-> enough so that the population can no longer recover.

There we get into some iffy territory, given Star Trek's lack of
familiarity with the basics of genetics.  In "reality" it would be very
difficult to find a dangerous disease on an alien world.  Not
impossible, but the population would have time to grow and diverge
before it became a likely problem.  In Star Trek the problem could be
dealt with, by sending the occasional anthropologist in to "study" the
culture (which as a bottle culture at first, would be an interesting
one).

--- PCBoard (R) v15.21/100
 * Origin: Freddy's Place - Edm. AB - 33.6K (403) 413-3460 (1:342/14)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 239 of 441
 From : David Johnston                      1:342/14        .pä 10 .þë 96 01:07
 To   : Nicolai Shapero
 Subj : Re: Cancelled
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
-> DJ>Torture:  Infliction of or subjection to extreme physical pain,
-> DJ>or great DJ>mental suffering.
-> By that definition, any punishment is torture.  You think not?
-> Consider

The relevant determinant is "extreme".


-> Webster (yes, I am aware of the definition of "torture"), I still do
-> not believe that it fits in this instance.

How is it different?

--- PCBoard (R) v15.21/100
 * Origin: Freddy's Place - Edm. AB - 33.6K (403) 413-3460 (1:342/14)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 240 of 441
 From : Earl Green                          1:3822/1        .òp 09 .þë 96 22:31
 To   : All
 Subj : Burning Zone review
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Here's an article I wrote for a sci-fi TV/media publication that never
made it to print.  But I thought it might be of some interest here...

                                PARANOIMIA
UPN's new drama hour The Burning Zone combines X-Files eerieness and current
                                 phobias.

   Think of it as the gang from ER tackling a case straight out of Mulder and
Scully's casebook.  Or vice versa.
   The daily news usually features at least one story about AIDS.  Or ebola.
Or a hantavirus.  Or even the mad cow disease.  And one of the hottest genre
shows on television right now is The X-Files.  Why not combine the two?  What
the heck, wouldn't that be great?  Let me say righ now that this show is rife
with bizarre and horrific sights - this program is NOT for younger viewers,
hypochondriacs, or the squeamish.  It's one of the first things I have seen on
network television that comes real close to my personal definition of a
"slasher flick" that didn't originate in the movie theater.
   Jeffrey Dean Morgan stars as Dr. Edward Marcase, a leading doctor - one of
those five leading doctors who recommends Dentyne for their patients who chew
gum, though with his unorthodox methodology he was probably that one out of
five who didn't - who is snatched away from his "normal" virological research
to head up a top-secret government team of doctors who are convened to do
battle with an unstoppable new disease that, as it turns out, is an
intelligent virus which points existing ailments in the right direction to
kill or possess human victims.  Marcase takes unusual risks and makes unusual
decisions - and most of the time he's right, but not always without cost.  A
previous sojourn across the world to combat ebola resulted in the death of
Marcase's assistant, the husband of his new team member Dr. Kimberly Shiroma
(Tamlyn Tomita).
   As far as previous sci-fi appearances go, you'll remember Tamlyn Tomita as
the first officer who was featured only in the pilot episode of Babylon 5
before the character of Ivanova existed.  She comes across to me in The
Burning Zone the same way she did on B5 - professionally frigid.  However, I
have to side with her character most of the time: our medical savior's
hypotheses and leaps of logic are quantum leaps, not thoughtful reasoning.
That Marcase turns out to be right in the end doesn't add much to Shiroma's
credibility.  Hopefully that score will be evened out and she can save the
world from time to time.  The whole endeavor is overseen by Dr. Reinhardt
(Denis Arndt), a face-on-a-screen/voice-on-the-phone who checks up on the
team's progress and seems like a cross between Patrick MacNee and Charlie from
Charlie's Angels (!).  James Black plays ex-CIA strongman Michael Hailey, who
is in charge of security for the secret complex - and promptly gets his mind
taken over by the virus, putting the whole project in extreme jeopardy.  I
wouldn't put that on my resume' if I were Mr. Hailey...
   The show overall is suitably creepy, but how can it avoid repeating such
films as Outbreak or Species every week?  The premise of the show would not
appear to offer much variety to explore.  As Dr. Marcase says in the pilot,
"An AIDS epidemic here, a hantavirus there"...and how many variations can we
squeeze into the very focused parameters of The Burning Zone?  A mad scientist
here, a CIA/black-ops-spawned plague there, and maybe a few more intelligent
diseases - maybe you begin to see the inherent limitations in the show's
format.  The pilot's concept of a collective hive-mind that can communicate
with all viruses and give them precise directions to wipe out humanity is
chilling, though it is not exploited to its fullest potential (reduced instead
to a brief caricature of the man-behind-the-glass motif of Silence of the
Lambs) and should not be repeated anytime soon; sadly, that same episode's
coda features insects in Costa Rica picking up the same disease to carry it
elsewhere, so you can be sure we'll be dealing with "streptococcus
hannibalectorus" again in the future.
   An interesting and well-executed basic storyline can get old if it's the
only plot a series bothers with.  Many shows, both sci-fi and otherwise, are
now making the dire mistake of trapping themselves by limiting their
possibilities dramatically and creatively, and The Burning Zone could fall
victim to the same, uh, ailment.
   I always keep a careful eye on the social implications of any television
series.  It's not that I'm one of these watchdog idiots who lurches about and
pontificates about the nastiness of violence on television - rather the
reverse.  Instead, I wonder about the underlying messages that television
broadcasts to society, and occasionally I worry.  And I worry about The
Burning Zone.  Is it just fine to make wildly irrational leaps of reasoning to
combat a disease that is not spreading like wildfire through the general
populace, but just through one sealed research facility?  Is it hunky-dory to
get into such a hurry that Dr. Marcase casually leapfrogs from animal testing
to injecting an experimental cure into a human patient?  Is it just peachy for
the facility's security squad to torch an escaped plague-carrier with the
world's biggest flame-thrower - shouldn't they instead be equipped with
isolation suits, ready to drag the fugitive back into the lab?
   So many questions...and potentially some unsettling answers.  God only
knows what the uninformed public will think about the painstaking procedure
of researching and fighting diseases after a healthy dose of this show.

      e  <-- Earl Green (earl.green@f1.n3822.z1.fidonet.org)  1:3822/1
                 Producer/artist/animator, Fox 46/UPN 32, Ft. Smith AR
---
 * SLMR 2.0 * There's a fiddygibber hiding in that grail, you see.

--- QScan/PCB v1.19b / 01-0162
 * Origin: Jackalope Junction 501-785-5381 Ft Smith AR (1:3822/1)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 241 of 441
 From : Dave MacLean                        1:259/536       .òp 09 .þë 96 23:03
 To   : All
 Subj : info you can use
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
hi all heres some info i think you all will be interested.

-1 == i am looking for message buddies who via bases like this we can talk back
and forth.

-2 == i am trying to write a trivia book on st-tng and i need help.

-3 == i also want to let anyone who is interested that i am part of a sci fi
club that is looking for new members.


if you want more info or have any questions on any or all of the above items
feel free to message me back.  hope to hear from some of you.



--- Maximus 2.01wb
 * Origin: USS Proxima = Toronto, Canada (416)265-3867 (1:259/536)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 242 of 441
 From : Kay Shapero                         1:102/524       .òp 09 .þë 96 10:12
 To   : Jeff Hancock
 Subj : Japanese SF
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Jul 07 12:49>, Jeff Hancock (1:3600/7) wrote to Leman Russ:

 JH>Anyway, my favorites have been "soft" SF like Dirty Pair: Project
 JH>Eden

I like the "Lovely Angels" myself...  And I think some of the Lupin III episodes
would qualify.

Before you decide nobody in the US is interested in anime (which is manifestly
NOT the case) just because they don't want videotaped copies of your collection,
why not check one of the anime echoes?

--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 243 of 441
 From : Kay Shapero                         1:102/524       .òp 09 .þë 96 10:27
 To   : Bob Klahn
 Subj : CANCELLED
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Jul 07 09:24>, Bob Klahn (1:234/2) wrote to Nicolai Shapero:

 BK>> We did not start the war, we just, well, I was going to say,
 BK>>"won it", but
 BK>> we really didn't. We just chased the Iraqis out of Kuwait.

 NS> By definition, we won.

 BK> Exactly the same way we won the Korean War.

Excuse me, gentlemen.... A war is a lot of people shooting at each other to
achieve an objective.  When one side achieves that objective, whatever the heck
it happens to be, that side has "won".  Since the stated objective of Desert
Storm was to chase the Iraqui troops out of Kuwait, and the Iraqui troops were
chased out of Kuwait, I'd say that qualifies.  No matter what someone else
thinks *ought* to have been done (go read up on the end of WWII sometime and
find out what Patton thought *ought* to have been done at the end and wasn't
sometime...)  Yes, this means sometimes both sides can "win", if they pick their
victory conditions carefully enough...

In fact that's probably the best way to win - if the other guy also thinks he
won, he's less likely to be out for revenge...  Take a look at the historical
method China has used to deal with invaders.

And to get back onto topic, anybody got some stfnal analogies?

--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 244 of 441
 From : Kay Shapero                         1:102/524       .òp 09 .þë 96 10:31
 To   : Chris Farrar
 Subj : B5 tech
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Jul 05 18:20>, Chris Farrar (1:246/20@fidonet.org) wrote to Kay Shapero:

 CF>And in the B5 Earth/Minbari war, the Minbari ships approached
 CF>with their weapon ports open as a sign of respect.  If you
 CF>compare that with the 20th century, and you're a Captain of a US
 CF>sub, and an unknown sub approaches you with its torpedo doors
 CF>open, you're liable to shoot first too...

As I've said before and am about to say again, First Contact is a hairy way to
make a living.  At least the EA and Minbari each knew they were coming into
contact with an ALIEN species (not just an "unknown" representative of what is
probably a known group) for the first time.  It's dangerous to assume *anything*
about the other guy's actions at that point.  This has been the case
historically on this planet, and will doubtless be the case on another.  So
you'll get people making a mistake and firing on someone who's trying to be
friendly, and you'll get people making a mistake and not firing on someone who
intends to blow them away.  Anybody who isn't scared going into a first contact
situation presumably doesn't understand the situation...

... "If you can keep your head when all around you/are losing theirs, and
blaming it on you... maybe you just don't understand the situation..."

--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 245 of 441
 From : Kay Shapero                         1:102/524       .òp 09 .þë 96 10:25
 To   : Mark Jones
 Subj : CANCELLED
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Jul 05 20:32>, Mark Jones (1:105/302.47) wrote to Bob Klahn:

 MJ>   They never once even *mentioned* the "moral implications" of
 MJ>tampering with a man's mind (despite their claims to moral
 MJ>superiority at every turn).

Yep, I quit thinking of the Federation as "the good guys" a long time ago.
Didn't star thinking of them as "the bad guys" mind you, they're just the side
most of the protagonists happen to be on.

--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 246 of 441
 From : Kay Shapero                         1:102/524       .òp 09 .þë 96 10:26
 To   : Kevin van Houten
 Subj : Sitcom stars
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Jul 08 13:52>, Kevin van Houten (1:124/7012.1701) wrote to Kay Shapero:

 KS> Can't comment on the movie, not having seen it yet, but just
 KS> out of curiosity what sitcom did Brent Spiner act in? The only
 KS> thing I can recall seeing him in is Star Trek though I'm sure he's
 KS> done other things during his career.

 Kv>He played a recurring 'hick' character on Night Court.

Was that before or during his ST career?  Sounds like an interesting change of
pace for the actor. :->

--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 247 of 441
 From : Nicolai Shapero                     1:102/524       .òp 09 .þë 96 20:24
 To   : Peter McNeill
 Subj : cancelled
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Jul 07 22:57>, Peter McNeill (1:244/116) wrote to Mark Jones:

 PM>Sounds like to me he isn't old enough to remember the Moon
 PM>landing... htey said
 PM>how sharp everything was with no blur between light and
 PM>shadow.....

I, for one, remember sitting there watching those really bad TV pictures from
the moon.  "One small step for a man, a giant leap for Mankind."

I was entering my sophmore year at UC Berkeley.  It was a hell of a time.

-- Nicolai Shapero, the Mad Russian Sysop of StormGate Aerie


--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 248 of 441
 From : Nicolai Shapero                     1:102/524       .òp 09 .þë 96 20:33
 To   : Kevin van Houten
 Subj : Sitcom stars
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Jul 08 13:52>, Kevin van Houten (1:124/7012.1701) wrote to Kay Shapero:

[4 line quote deleted in the interests of space and bandwidth]

 Kv>He played a recurring 'hick' character on Night Court.

 Kv>Sincerely,

 Kv>Kevin L. van Houten
 Kv>kvanho01@eng.eds.com
 Kv>1:124/7012.1701

 Kv>Posted to Kay Shapero on Monday, July 8, 1996 at 13:53


 Kv>... Thanks, Tammy. - Yes, that's actually Todd Sullivan saying
 Kv>"thanks"

A ONE line response, with a four line quote, followed by a 5 line signature,
followed by a tagline.  This is excessive.  While such behavior may be the rule
on the Internet, multiline signatures and excessive quoting are NOT the rule in
this conference.  Please do not repeat this offense, lest yours truly (the
moderator) grow tired and angry.

-- Nicolai Shapero, Moderator of the SFFAN echo


--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 249 of 441
 From : Paul Worley                         1:2601/515      .òp 09 .þë 96 01:19
 To   : Kay Shapero
 Subj : Sitcom stars
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Hello Kay!

07 Jul 96 14:33, Kay Shapero wrote to Jared Callanan:

 KS> Can't comment on the movie, not having seen it yet, but just out
 KS> of curiosity what sitcom did Brent Spiner act in?  The only thing
 KS> I can recall seeing him in is Star Trek though I'm sure he's done
 KS> other things during his career.

I'm shocked!!! You don't remember him as the down and out, hobo father on Night
Court???

Paul

--- GoldED 2.42.G0614
 * Origin: USS Wolf - Wheatland, PA  (1:2601/515)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 250 of 441
 From : Glenn Shaheen                       1:3600/7        .cê 07 .þë 96 16:53
 To   : Darre Luallen
 Subj : cancelled
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.GMD: 1:396/1

DL> That was great!  I personally tire of all the "my show is better than
DL> your show" arguements that occur in fandom.  However, it is when someone
DL> is intend upon hating a show or story without ever giving it a chance,
DL> my injustice meter goes off the scale.

        HEY! I AM giving it a chance! I have watched the last 3
episodes and I am tiring quickly of people saying I am a blithering
idiot who just wants to cause a ruckus.
-=-
 * OLX 2.2 * Asteroid's just another word for Potential Orbital Hazard

--- SLMAIL v3.5C  (#1540)
 * Origin: Robotech þ Lake City's Music*Demo BBS þ [904] 758*9477 (1:3600/7)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 251 of 441
 From : Jeff Hancock                        1:3600/7        .îí 08 .þë 96 21:18
 To   : Glenn Shaheen
 Subj : cancelled
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

GS>JH>ARE Klingons.  You shouldn't expect them to back down until pushed
GS>        They may be battle happy, but they're not suicidal.

Then they're STINKING GUTLESS COWARDS!  ;-)

GS>JH>I no longer expect to.  Welcome to the Dixon ranks.
GS>        What, just cause I think models look better than computer
GS>graphics? You may be able to change my opinion about a show that I
GS>barely watch, but you can't change the way I think something LOOKS.

I think you're rejecting everything that's not Trek on the basis that
"if it doesn't look like Trek, it doesn't look right".  In other words,
"Trek is how things should look".  I think it's unfair to judge other
series because they don't look like, or act like, Trek.  They should be
good or bad on their own merits.

And I seriously wonder if you would have the same opinion if you didn't
know what was CGI and what was models. ;-)

GS>        I didn't say it was ALL fake looking, just most of the stuff
GS>on B5 and SAAB.

Yes, but that's based on your belief that "Trek looks real", and it
doesn't.  None of them look real, because if they did, they wouldn't
look all that great.  There's a certain dramatic license involved.

So, ASIDE from the graphics, since you are completely stuck on that
point, have you any OTHER problem with B5 which won't turn out to be "It
ain't Trek"?  And don't hit me with the "bashers" line again, because
they exist on both sides, that's no excuse.

-=-
 * Crazy-J * Not even with both hands AND a flashlight!!

--- SLMAIL v3.5C  (#1540)
 * Origin: Robotech þ Lake City's Music*Demo BBS þ [904] 758*9477 (1:3600/7)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 252 of 441
 From : Jeff Hancock                        1:3600/7        .îí 08 .þë 96 21:20
 To   : Frank Glover
 Subj : CANCELLED
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

FG>   Very good point. Was he infiltrated in virtually from day one? Or
FG>did someone recently grab/kill the real Gowron, and slip in an
FG>impostor? And if so, how long ago?

Recently seems more likely, but whenever tensions started to increase is
also a good possibility.

And don't forget, there are probably at least two, so that Gowron isn't
dependant on being a puddle every so often.  They may even take turns,
one puddling inside the other, and changing places almost undetectably.
-=-
 * Crazy-J * Tagword.

--- SLMAIL v3.5C  (#1540)
 * Origin: Robotech þ Lake City's Music*Demo BBS þ [904] 758*9477 (1:3600/7)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 253 of 441
 From : Jeff Hancock                        1:3600/7        .îí 08 .þë 96 21:56
 To   : Bob Klahn
 Subj : CANCELLED
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

BK> Well, I for one feel that, aside from medicine and computers, we
BK>haven't really advanced a whole lot since the '50s. Of course I know
BK>damn well that's not true, it's just a feeling.

Compared to the flying cars, domed cities, Moonbases, Marsbases, and
manned flights to Alpha Centauri some people were predicting would be
commonplace by now, it does seem like we've just stuck in a rut.

BK> JH> transporter, and that was relatively proven technology by that
BK> JH>time. (no, not perfect... it never is. ;)
BK> Nor is the airplane, the automobile, or walking. You just do the
BK>best you can. Seems the transporter is a very safe method of

Yes, but the fraggin' transporter seems to fail SO OFTEN... ;-)

Have any of the ST series ever made up "facts" about how many
transporter accidents have actually occurred since they became safe
enough for routine use compared with the number of successful
transports?  It would seem certain that the transporter failures would
have to be like today's plane accidents, relatively rare but so
publicized (aka shown in an episode) that the danger seems much greater
than it really is.

BK>transportation. Considering how strongly he felt about having his
BK>atoms squirted across space, how did he ever deal with the thought
BK>that on the other side of that thin ship skin is total vacuum, about

It wasn't all THAT thin... ;)  And there were the shields and force
fields and the transporter to beam him out of space if he were to get
there. ;-)

Transporting in the Star Trek style would seem to be the ultimate form
of nudity.  Just your atoms streaming through the cosmos.  Not even bare
skin, but bare *everything*.  And if you happen to be religious, you
just HAVE to wonder about your "soul", and if some part of you really
dies every time you get taken apart and put together again.

BK>the most hostile enviornment imaginable. Floating up there... nobody
BK>to help... no escape... just a fraction of an inch from certain
BK>death... every minute of every hour of every day in space.

Space travel would seem to encourage claustrophiles... and if that also
means agoraphobics, what's more wide open then having every particle in
your body exposed to the ultimate expanse of space itself, by
themselves, without even the decency of a body to cling together in?

BK> The best laid plans....often have something to do with gettin laid.
BK> (Is that tagline material, or what?)

Definitely not what.  I do believe you have got it surrounded!

BK> Again, right.

Stop it, you're scaring me.

BK> Actually, it was out of respect for that race's own PD. They did not
BK>share their technology with other races. Rather selfish to my mind, I
BK>didn't see any sign they refused to accept knowledge from other

So it was just a more extreme form of the PD staring back at them. You'd
think they could at least have teleported the Voyager and given them a
leg up on the trip, even if they didn't give them the actual technology
to do so.

BK>  I'da stolen the damn thing and run.

Which is what happened anyway, wasn't it?

BK> Sure, we'd be resentful, but we'd adjust. The human mind has a vast
BK>ability to rationalize that which is in it's own interest.

So you don't think we'd continue to hate the alien race, and keep trying
to gain from them so we could beat them in some form or fashion as a
form of racial revenge?

BK>  What we'd probably resent more is if they then went away and left
BK>us to our own devices after that. We'd resent being told we weren't
BK>worth the time to bother with, or advanced enough for contact.

Seems like we'd resent them either way.  All our hard work, and here
it's all for nothing, because we'd rather do it OURSELVES, by gum.

Okay, maybe we'd be less testosterone-prone by then. ;)

-=-
 * Crazy-J * Strange things are afoot at the Circle-K.

--- SLMAIL v3.5C  (#1540)
 * Origin: Robotech þ Lake City's Music*Demo BBS þ [904] 758*9477 (1:3600/7)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 254 of 441
 From : Jeff Hancock                        1:3600/7        .îí 08 .þë 96 21:46
 To   : Frank Glover
 Subj : Japanese SF
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

FG>   Although there are Anime-specific echoes, it *does* get discussed
FG>here from time to time. Jump in with something.

Okay, what SF anime have you seen and what would you recommend?

While we're at it, does anyone have a list of the anime references in
Star Trek (TNG for sure, but possibly others?), and much less likely, a
list of the ST references in the Dirty Pair animes?

Here's a list of what I've HEARD of, but I haven't verified any of this.
Apparently in one episode (the first one involving the Ferengi?), there
were two training ships named the Kei and the Yuri.  Somewhere there was
also a star map which formed outlines of the two, but one was upside
down so it wasn't too obvious.  There was also apparently one with a
race called the "Nausiccans", after "Nausicaa of the Valley of the
Winds".  Supposedly there is at least one anime reference in every TNG
episode, although they are usually very hard to find.

The DP/ST list is even shorter, apparently in the Dirty Pair TV series,
first episode, there were listings of TOS crewmembers on computer
screens, and in the second a blackboard had a diagram of the NCC-1701 as
seen from the bottom.  Also, in the Project Eden movie, some missiles
apparently have pictures on the noses you can see if you freeze-frame.

Anyone have anything else to add, or can verify these?

-=-
 * Crazy-J * .....I tawht I tawh a Kzin..... I did! I did! MUNCH!!!!

--- SLMAIL v3.5C  (#1540)
 * Origin: Robotech þ Lake City's Music*Demo BBS þ [904] 758*9477 (1:3600/7)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 255 of 441
 From : Todd Sullivan                       1:202/720.3     .îí 08 .þë 96 18:03
 To   : David Johnston
 Subj : Cancelled
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Reports from the Interior indicate that David Johnston leaked the following to
Kay Shapero, re: Cancelled

 DJ> Not handing out technological information to alien species unless they
 DJ> something to trade is only common sense.  But the Prime, as applied in
 DJ> the modern series, is far more sweeping and has been elevated to the
 DJ> status of an absolute moral principle, rather than a pragmatic policy.

Funny how art imitates life, isn't it?  TNG is so politically correct it's
sickening.  TOS reflected its environment as well.  DS9 is a mixture of both,
with Dodge City thrown in.

As to how this related to the PD, it used to be that a normally developing
culture was left alone; a dying or abberant one was aided just enough to
survive.  Now, it's "we can't interfere with destiny" or some such idiocy.

When did this happen?  When the political climate of the real world changed.  It
wasn't for the better, IMO.

Todd Sullivan

... God-like is next to godliness, according to Webster's.

-*- ASTG 1.9

--- Spot 1.3a Unregistered
 * Origin: Todd's Spot in the Continuum (1:202/720.3)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 256 of 441
 From : Todd Sullivan                       1:202/720.3     .îí 08 .þë 96 18:13
 To   : Peter McNeill
 Subj : B5 Renewed
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Reports from the Interior indicate that Peter McNeill leaked the following to
me, re: B5 Renewed

 GS>>>> trash Trek and its fans blindly. In fact, weren't you the same
 GS>>>> person who was trashing Voyager blindly too?

 BH>>> hee! Glenn, Todd's so much a Trek fan that he's a Klingon.....

 TS>> And now, for the $128,000, what would I be in B5?

 PM> A trash compactor??? <EG>

<audience groans>

Oh, dear!  You missed.  Now while we present our next contestant, Mr Sebastian
will administer the consolation prize...

Todd Sullivan

... How many marriages were there before God created the first minister?

-*- ASTG 1.9

--- Spot 1.3a Unregistered
 * Origin: Todd's Spot in the Continuum (1:202/720.3)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 257 of 441
 From : Frank Glover                        1:2613/477      .òp 09 .þë 96 21:50
 To   : Michael Harper
 Subj : Re: B5 Renewed
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

MH>   Their names were Chris Carter and David Kelley, and the shows were
MH>   _X-Files_ and _Picket Fences_. Mudler and Scully would have gone to
MH>   Rome, Wisconsin chasing after an alien-DNA lead. CBS and Fox said
MH>  no,
MH>   no way.
MH>
MH>   And thus did a nice idea die a-borning.

   Yeah, too bad. It would've been far more interesting than watching people
chase after Elizabeth Taylor's pearls through several CBS sitcoms on one evening
awhile back....

   Frank


--- QuickBBS 2.81 GoldBase (Zeta-2.0b)
 * Origin: The Matrix Data Bank BBS, Rochester, Ny (1:2613/477)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 258 of 441
 From : Frank Glover                        1:2613/477      .òp 09 .þë 96 22:02
 To   : Leman Russ
 Subj : Re: but about models...
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

LR>   Threre is one thing to say for models, tho: You can hang a model
LR>  inthe smithsonian, like the original enterprise. Try putting a CGI in
LR>  a museum.

   Now that I think about it, it should be possible (unless it's an impossibly
complex shape) to take the computer graphic data, and use it to drive machine
tools that could cut a precise three-dimensional replica, giving you the best of
both worlds....

   And when we have nanotechnology, the distinctions could get very fuzzy
indeed....

   Frank


--- QuickBBS 2.81 GoldBase (Zeta-2.0b)
 * Origin: The Matrix Data Bank BBS, Rochester, Ny (1:2613/477)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 259 of 441
 From : Brion Lienhart                      1:213/700.2     .pä 10 .þë 96 07:58
 To   : Frank Glover
 Subj : Re: Sitcom stars
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On Mon Jul 08, Frank Glover said to Kay Shapero:

KS>  Can't comment on the movie, not having seen it yet, but just out of
KS>  curiosity what sitcom did Brent Spiner act in?  The only thing I can
KS>  recall seeing him in is Star Trek though I'm sure he's done other
KS>  things during his career.

 -FG>   I understand he gueststarred on Night Court once (among other
 -FG>things, I'm also sure), but I didn't see it myself.

He was on two or three times. I used to watch it a lot.


--- QM v1.31
 * Origin: Ministry of Peace - Carson City, NV (1:213/700.2)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 260 of 441
 From : Brion Lienhart                      1:213/700.2     .pä 10 .þë 96 07:59
 To   : Kay Shapero
 Subj : Tech Level Talk
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On Mon Jul 08, Kay Shapero said to Bob Klahn:

 KS> species, like each individual, is different. (and we're back to David
 KS> Brin's Uplift universe, where the human race uses the Library to
 KS> suggest areas of investigation, but avoids depending on it.)

 BK> Which is the correct way to do it.

 -KS>Indeed.  Very sensible of them.  (Are you sure that's *our* human
 -KS>race?  :->)

Not entirely. There are hints in _Startide Rising_ that they've been "improving"
certain people, also against the rules of the big boys.




--- QM v1.31
 * Origin: Ministry of Peace - Carson City, NV (1:213/700.2)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 261 of 441
 From : Brion Lienhart                      1:213/700.2     .pä 10 .þë 96 08:04
 To   : Jeff Hancock
 Subj : Japanese SF
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On Mon Jul 08, Jeff Hancock said to Frank Glover:

FG>   Although there are Anime-specific echoes, it *does* get discussed
FG>here from time to time. Jump in with something.

 -JH>Okay, what SF anime have you seen and what would you recommend?

Gall Force is pretty good. You'll have to suffer through frequent pictures of
nekkid wimmen though. 8-(;-)


--- QM v1.31
 * Origin: Ministry of Peace - Carson City, NV (1:213/700.2)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 262 of 441
 From : Matthcob Tuepears                   1:163/214       .òp 09 .þë 96 15:47
 To   : Superman
 Subj : Hi
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Hi tere superman have you ever recived a message from this area Oh well whats
up? anything new with you? Not me See Ya around
                                                        Jakester!

--- Maximus 2.01wb
 * Origin: Land of Ill Repute (1:163/214)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 263 of 441
 From : Frank Swarbrick                     1:104/825       .òp 09 .þë 96 19:20
 To   : Nicolai Shapero
 Subj : cancelled
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12  92-0022
On 07-07-96  09:35, shipwrecked and comatose, Nicolai Shapero said:

 NS> On <Jul 04 21:23>, Frank Swarbrick (1:104/825) wrote to Nicolai
 NS> Shapero:
 FS>Weallll, I wouldn't say 8 to 10 times.  From what I hear a B5
 FS>episode
 FS>is about $600,000, while Voyager is about $2 million.

 NS> I'd heard 150k for B5, and 1.5-2 million for ST:Voyager.

$150000 for a B5 episode???  Hmmm, doesn't seem too likely.
Anyway, I know JMS has posted on this, so I wonder if anyone could
post the correct figures....?

        Frank

... No one can hear when you're Screaming in Digital!
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12
 * Origin: The Bailey Information Exchange BBS, 28.8k v.fc  (1:104/825.0)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 264 of 441
 From : Owen E. Oulton                      1:243/45        .îí 08 .þë 96 20:25
 To   : Bob Klahn
 Subj : MINBARI AND B5
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 BK>  The point is, the Minbari were the senior race, they were the ones with a
 BK>  thousand years of space faring experience. They are the ones who should
 BK>  have anticipated the possibility of any particular act being
 BK>  misinterpreted.

I'm perfectly convinced that the Minbari (or at least Dukat and the religious
caste members of the Grey Council) knew exactly how the Terrans would interpret
it.  I don't think it's at all a coincidence that Delenn, Dukat's hand-picked
successor was there, and also at the Battle of the Line, and that she selected
Sinclair's crippled fighter so that they could "discover" his Minbari soul.  I
suspect that Dukat had recieved one of those letters from Valen, and that the
entire Earth/Minbari war was stage managed.  I don't think anything was left to
chance.

CFN, O

--- Maximus 2.01wb
 * Origin: Pandora's Box, Ottawa, Ont. 613-829-1209 (1:243/45)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 265 of 441
 From : GERRY NORMANDEAU                    1:243/95        .îí 08 .þë 96 18:24
 To   : GARY WARREN
 Subj : So, How about that Hunchb
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Standing at the gallows pole Gary Warren spat a curse on Kay Shapero, accusing
im of So, How about that Hunchb!

 GW> On (04 Jul 96) Kay Shapero wrote to Ken Mayes...

 KS> On <Jul 02 10:10>, Ken Mayes (1:393/7@fido) wrote to Frank Glover:

 KM>        Somebody stop Disney before they adapt Schindler's List
 KM>to an animated musical!

 KS> A friend of mine named Lee Gold wrote a song entitled "Hamlet by
 KS> Disney"
 KS> which is a real hoot.  I know she's publishing it in one of her filk
 KS> zines; anybody who wants to know the details send me netmail and I'll
 KS> let
 KS> you know when it's out.


 GW> My wife also noted it's just a matter of time before Disney turns mass
 GW> murderers such as Manson and Dahmer into cute animated characters with
 GW> their own whimsical films.  Delightful, no?  ;)

Why not! They made rape pillage and murder into a great sing along ride
called the pirates of the carribian.


... "A perversion of nature....how exciting!"

___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20
--- Platinum Xpress/Wildcat! v1.2j
 * Origin: The OFFSPRING BBS! Orleans, Ontario CANADA (613)834-8587 (1:243/95)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 266 of 441
 From : Owen E. Oulton                      1:243/45        .òp 09 .þë 96 03:41
 To   : Kay Shapero
 Subj : Sitcom stars
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 JC>       The Movie was full of comedians, every actor in the movie
 JC>was either a comedian or a former sitcom star.

 KS> Can't comment on the movie, not having seen it yet, but
 KS> just out of curiosity what sitcom did Brent Spiner act
 KS> in?  The only thing I can recall seeing him in is Star
 KS> Trek though I'm sure he's done other things during his career.

Brent Spiner had a recurring character in Night Court, a hick-from-the-sticks
type who, in one episode, bought the cafeteria concession in the courthouse.  I
have no idea whether he ever was a "sitcom star" as such, though.  Hmmm... let's
check the ST:TNG Companion.

<cue Muzak...  "...and lovely, the girl from Impanema goes walking, and where
she passes each man she passes goes `Ah-h-h-h-h'..." ...end Muzak>

"Brent Spiner, who became Data, grew up in Houston, Texas.  He moved up through
the off-Broadway and Broadway ranks, winning roles in such musicals as Sunday In
The Park With George, The Three Musketeers, and Big River.  He appeared in Woody
Allen's Stardust Memories and, perhaps most memorably for sitcom fans, as a
luckless hick in a recurring role on Night Court."

There, now you know as much about him as I do.  :-)

CFN, O

--- Maximus 2.01wb
 * Origin: Pandora's Box, Ottawa, Ont. 613-829-1209 (1:243/45)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 267 of 441
 From : Darre LuAllen                       1:3637/1        .pä 10 .þë 96 14:04
 To   : Michael Harper
 Subj : Scheduling SF shows
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 On 07-08-96 Michael Harper wrote to Darre LuAllen...

 DL> will be sad to see it go.  BTW, why name a show such that the
 DL> initials spell a car's name?  Hum.  Perhaps it was just a matter of
 DL> marketing that killed our show.

 MH> I've wondered that myself. I guess it was just coincidental that I saw
 MH> more Saab adverts on Fox over the last year... but I thnk what killed
 MH> the show, if anything, was the fact that Fox scheduled it in a bad
 MH> spot. A mediocre slot can ruin a show, and S:AAB was in a bad position
 MH> opposite 60 Minutes, the eight-hundred-tonne-gorilla of CBS Sunday
 MH> nights...

 Networks should realize that 60 Minutes is as entrenched in the
 American mentality as the Pledge of Allegence (and about as outdated).
 If they would settle for what numbers they can get on Sunday night and
 sell ad space cheap, then more show would survive the "death slot".
 Lois and Clark seems to do quite well in that neighborhood.

 DL> At the recent Dragon*con, Trek had it's own programming track.  One of
 DL> the panels was "B5 and DS9: Seperated at Birth?".  Unfortunately, I

 MH> title. In some ways, though, the shows were seperated at birth; it's
 MH> long been common knowledge that JMS pitched B5 to Paramount first, and
 MH> they hung onto the treatment for a few months before he got it back.
 MH> The early set designs by Peter Ledger bear a strong resemblance to the
 MH> sets for DS9.

 Some of this I knew and some I didn't.  Got involved with a group of
 costumers once.  We decided to do a series of "four horsemen" skits at
 local cons.  Another group decided the same thing.  Although it was
 weird to see, neither group took anything away from the other's efforts.
 Granted, we did get involved in the competitive spirit mindset.

 Later, I discovered that our costumer stole the idea from the other
 group.  That didn't affect anyone's fun.  The point is it is possible
 to have two of something without it being too much.  People compared
 the skits, as you might expect.  However, no one got crazy about "Our
 Favorite Group did better than Your Favorite Group."  With DS9 and B5,
 fans have almost formed two armed camps.

 MH> But a very sweet lady named Barbara Hambly pointed something out to me
 MH> a few years back, and I've kept it in memory ever since. There are only
 MH> two or three basic plots in televisual science fiction, and they're all
 MH> stolen from Westerns. One is "Stagecoach"; that's all of the shipborne

 Nice piece of wisdom.  The secret of good writing is not the idea but
 what you do with it.  Shakespeare used only two basic ideas:  "bad guys
 do nasty things but it works out in the end for the good guys" and
 "bad guys do nasty things and everybody dies".  But what he did with
 these ideas is remarkable.

 Excuse my ignorance, but is Barbara Hambly a writer?

 DL> Yes.  Not only in SF, but in all TV programming, networks and studios
 DL> are in some stupid ratings war.  From SF to sitcoms even to
 DL> pro-wrestling, the suits are under the mistaken impression that we
 DL> viewers are going to be loyal to ONE station.  That is so stupid.

  [...]

 DL> ad money comes from.  The suits are so blind, it's stupid.

 MH> That's the understatement of the millenium.
 MH>
 MH> Awhile back, we had a near-brush with television history. Two writers
 MH> working for the same studio on different shows for different networks
 MH> met, got started talking, and professed an admiration for each other's

 MH> work. They came up with the notion of a two-part episode, that would
 MH> begin on one show and _cross networks_ to end on the other show. If
 MH> done, the response would have been phenomenal. The networks quashed it.
 MH> The wrote the shows anyway, changing what they had to in order to keep
 MH> from pissing off their employers. But those of us who follow such
 MH> things knew, and were sorely disappointed...

 I remember this.  The two shows missed out on a BIG pay-off.  IIRC,
 wasn't one of the networks game for it, but the other stepped on it?
 They do such crossovers in comics all the time.  I think it has happened
 in books before.  Even ID4 had a few nods to SF shows and movies.  Why
 are the networks so adament about acting like sovereign nations?

 MH>  * Origin: The Eclectic Fox -- Memphis TN  (901)327-1008 (1:123/10)

 BTW, are you in Memphis proper or the surrounding area?  Originally
 from the area or a transplant?

                                         At your Service,
                                         Darre LuAllen

___
 * OFFLINE 1.56 * That's an amazing horse Brisco. --He's not that amazing.  Took
him two tries.

--- Maximus/2 3.01
 * Origin: Cumberland BBS -TN- V34 (1:3637/1)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 268 of 441
 From : Bob Klahn                           1:234/2         .pä 10 .þë 96 22:45
 To   : Frank Glover
 Subj : CANCELLED
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 FG> season: (to Tuvok) "You were working for her (Janeway), Seska was
 FG> working for the Cardassians...was anyone in the Maquis working for me??"

 I'd forgotten that one.

BOB KLAHN

... Get a taste of a true religion.....Lick a witch!
 * Silver Xpress V4.3P RB10275

--- FLAME v1.1
 * Origin: Telnet toltbbs.com or call 313-854-6001, Boardwatch #55 (1:234/2)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 269 of 441
 From : Bob Klahn                           1:234/2         .pä 10 .þë 96 22:45
 To   : Leman Russ
 Subj : MINBARI AND B5
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 LR>  You're a calvin and hobbes fhan too? maybethere's hope for you yet ;).

   Isn't everyone?

 LR>  On the subject of how to greet alien races, if we think on this much,
 LR>  we see that it may not be possible to greet an alien species without
 LR>  causing trouble. For example, if you make a peaceful greeting towards
 LR>  some races they may take it as weakness and attacxk you. Ifyou make a
 LR>  defensive posture they make take it as a threat and attack, ad
 LR>  infinitum...

 We could only hope anyone we meet is experienced enough to think that
 through.

 Or, have the diplomats go out to greet them, and the fleet hide in the
 asteroid belt.
 ...

 LR>  When we finally contact an alien race I sure hope they know what to
 LR>  do... >:[

 Then again, maybe we just decide that first contact teams are expendable.

BOB KLAHN

... Real men "copy con > reply.txt"
 * Silver Xpress V4.3P RB10275

--- FLAME v1.1
 * Origin: Telnet toltbbs.com or call 313-854-6001, Boardwatch #55 (1:234/2)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 270 of 441
 From : Bob Klahn                           1:234/2         .pä 10 .þë 96 22:45
 To   : Frank Glover
 Subj : SITCOM STARS
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
KS>>  curiosity what sitcom did Brent Spiner act in?  The only thing I can
KS>>  recall seeing him in is Star Trek though I'm sure he's done other
KS>>  things during his career.
 FG>
 FG>    I understand he gueststarred on Night Court once (among other
 FG>    things, I'm also sure), but I didn't see it myself.

 He had a semi-recurring role on Night Court. He played a "hill billy" type
 with a couple of kids, and married to his cousin. All very low IQ types.

BOB KLAHN

... Mac experience is helpful when learning to use Win95.  :-)
 * Silver Xpress V4.3P RB10275

--- FLAME v1.1
 * Origin: Telnet toltbbs.com or call 313-854-6001, Boardwatch #55 (1:234/2)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 271 of 441
 From : Boris CDuke                         2:463/2.22      .ÿò 12 .þë 96 21:59
 To   : Jeff Hancock
 Subj : Japanese SF
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Good eating Jeff!

 FG>> Although there are Anime-specific echoes, it *does* get discussed
 FG>> here from time to time. Jump in with something.

 JH> Okay, what SF anime have you seen and what would you recommend?

The best japanimation is, imho, AKIRA.

 JH>  + Origin: Robotech þ Lake City's Music*Demo BBS þ [904] 758*9477
 JH> (1:3600/7)

    Þßßß best witches               [MIDI Music Team]
    ÞÝßÛ                            Kiev, Ukraine
    ÞÝÛÛ Boris                      boris@sfclub.freenet.kiev.ua

 * Origin: Imagineering (2:463/2.22)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 272 of 441
 From : Henry Triplett                      1:106/564       .åò 11 .þë 96 07:32
 To   : DAVID LITTLE
 Subj : CGI vs Models
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

-=> Quoting David Little to Henry Triplett <=-

 DL> -=< Henry Triplett used the Jedi Mind Trick on me!>=-

"You don't need to check their CGI...they have models...they may pass."


 DL> You can have "Happy Accidents" with models that cannot be

What are "Happy Accidents?"  And if they achieve desireable FX results,
why can't they be programmed?

 DL> programmed into CGIs. Even still, you can almost always point out the
 DL> CGI items because the pixelization is still there.

Yeah, I suppose if one is really looking for it.  But with the rate of ad-
vancement in computer technology, I doubt if this will be an issue for
long.  Meanwhile, the laws of physics (and the laws of money) will continue
to effect modelwork.

Henry

... Psst!  I heard David was socializing with Kai Winn!!

___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20 [NR]
--- GEcho 1.00
 * Origin: Eat Flaming Death    Houston Texas    713-447-1927 (1:106/564)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 273 of 441
 From : Henry Triplett                      1:106/564       .åò 11 .þë 96 07:45
 To   : NICOLAI SHAPERO
 Subj : CGI vs Models
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

-=> Quoting Nicolai Shapero to Henry Triplett <=-

 HT>start off using models so heavily in this day and age.  I guess
 HT>it's a matter of going with what they're comfortable with.

 NS> "But we've ALWAYS done it this way.  It was good enough for
 NS> grampaw..."
 NS> Feh!

"Feh?!?  But if *was good enough for grampaw!"

"Besides, a model is *real*!  It exists!  CGI is just made-up stuff
 on a computer!"

Feh Indeed!  I guess that's what happens when you have a massive budget
and no good ideas as to where to spend it.  "If we put in all of these
whiz-bang FX, the show's gotta be good!"

I saw your thoughts on the Kromags in "Sliders" awhile back.  They echoed
mine pretty well.  If Sliders comes back, I'm willing to bet that the
Kromags show up there almost as often as the Kazon show up on ST:Voyager.
Two shows, both with a premise that should really allow for some great SF
storytelling, hamstrung by an apparent lack of visionaries on either pro-
duction team.

Henry

... "Well, we're screwed!" - Ivanova

___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20 [NR]
--- GEcho 1.00
 * Origin: Eat Flaming Death    Houston Texas    713-447-1927 (1:106/564)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 274 of 441
 From : Todd Sullivan                       1:202/720.3     .pä 10 .þë 96 17:32
 To   : Leman Russ
 Subj : MINBARI AND B5
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Reports from the Interior indicate that Leman Russ leaked the following to Bob
Klahn, re: MINBARI AND B5


 LR>  On the subject of how to greet alien races, if we think on this much,
 LR> we see that it may not be possible to greet an alien species without
 LR> causing trouble. For example, if you make a peaceful greeting towards
 LR> some races they may take it as weakness and attacxk you. Ifyou make a
 LR> defensive posture they make take it as a threat and attack, ad
 LR> infinitum...

 LR>  Remember STTMP? Apparently V'ger mistook epsilon 9s sensors as an
 LR> attack or as a weapons lock and destroyed it. Likewise V'ger mistook
 LR> enterprises "failure" to reply as hostility and attacked.

Wrong on both counts.  The "weapon" was a scanning device and storage coding
method all in one.  V'ger didn't react; it was obvious that nothing anyone did
or could have done would have harmed it.

 LR>  When we finally contact an alien race I sure hope they know what to
 LR> do...

Get away before we use and exploit them into extinction.

Todd Sullivan

... "I assure you I seek only knowledge." --Aldous Gajic

-*- ASTG 1.9

--- Spot 1.3a Unregistered
 * Origin: Todd's Spot in the Continuum (1:202/720.3)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 275 of 441
 From : Todd Sullivan                       1:202/720.3     .pä 10 .þë 96 17:40
 To   : Frank Glover
 Subj : but about models...
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Reports from the Interior indicate that Frank Glover leaked the following to
Leman Russ, re: but about models...

 FG>
 LR>>   Threre is one thing to say for models, tho: You can hang a model
 LR>>  inthe smithsonian, like the original enterprise. Try putting a CGI in
 LR>>  a museum.
 FG>
 FG>    Now that I think about it, it should be possible (unless it's an
 FG> impossibly complex shape) to take the computer graphic data, and use it
 FG> to drive machine tools that could cut a precise three-dimensional
 FG> replica, giving you the best of both worlds....

It exists today, and is being used to create medical protheses for
reconstructive surgery.  It's only a matter of time until machine tools can do
the same by splitting the items into sections that can be more simple to
machine.

Todd Sullivan

... "The greatest minds are capable of the greatest vices as well
 as of the greatest virtues." --Rene Descartes

-*- ASTG 1.9

--- Spot 1.3a Unregistered
 * Origin: Todd's Spot in the Continuum (1:202/720.3)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 276 of 441
 From : Glenn Shaheen                       1:3600/7        .òp 09 .þë 96 19:12
 To   : Jeff Hancock
 Subj : cancelled
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

JH>I think you're rejecting everything that's not Trek on the basis that
JH>"if it doesn't look like Trek, it doesn't look right".  In other words,
JH>"Trek is how things should look".  I think it's unfair to judge other
JH>series because they don't look like, or act like, Trek.  They should be
JH>good or bad on their own merits.

        I don't like the way it looks.

JH>So, ASIDE from the graphics, since you are completely stuck on that
JH>point, have you any OTHER problem with B5 which won't turn out to be "It
JH>ain't Trek"?  And don't hit me with the "bashers" line again, because
JH>they exist on both sides, that's no excuse.

        The show? Not many anymore. The diehard fans? Many of them.
-=-
 * OLX 2.2 * 8086: The year you finally pay off your computer.

--- SLMAIL v3.5C  (#1540)
 * Origin: Robotech  -=-Fansubbed anime available upon request-=- (1:3600/7)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 277 of 441
 From : Glenn Shaheen                       1:3600/7        .òp 09 .þë 96 19:39
 To   : Todd Sullivan
 Subj : B5 renewed
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

TS>My biggest and most important gripe is with the scripting and plotting.
TS>explainations, poor continuity, bad characterization, little growth, good
TS>ideas they frittered away, and the excessive Kazon appearances.

        That's better. I can't stand Voyager anymore myself. If they
have been traveling in one consistent direction for 2 years then they
should be passed Kazon space by now, unless they were being followed.


TS>The "split Voyager" episode was handled poorly, other than someone actual
TS>dying.  Too much talk, less work.

        That episode almost made me smash my TV.

TS>I could go on, but why?  A whole season just to set the tone?  Welaome to
TS>cancellation.

        Even though I don't really like it anymore, I would not like to
see it cancelled. Only good Trek shows are allowed to be cancelled.

-=-
 * OLX 2.2 * The toothless rooster-man is on the run!

--- SLMAIL v3.5C  (#1540)
 * Origin: Robotech  -=-Fansubbed anime available upon request-=- (1:3600/7)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 278 of 441
 From : Glenn Shaheen                       1:3600/7        .òp 09 .þë 96 19:43
 To   : Frank Glover
 Subj : CGI vs Models
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

FG>   Agreed. The Hubble repair, and Mir docking footage ought to be require
FG>viewing for anyone who wants to shoot such scenes for entertainment.

        Yes yes yes, but there is little or no space traffic now.
-=-
 * OLX 2.2 * Reebok's slogan is "No slogans".

--- SLMAIL v3.5C  (#1540)
 * Origin: Robotech  -=-Fansubbed anime available upon request-=- (1:3600/7)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 279 of 441
 From : Glenn Shaheen                       1:3600/7        .òp 09 .þë 96 19:45
 To   : Peter Mcneill
 Subj : Put up or shut up.
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

PM>Of course it's smooth, there is almost nil friction in space. As for smal
PM>explosions, that would be correct. The light and flame generated is
PM>dependent
PM>to a large degree on the amount of atmosphere a ship contains. So it woul
PM>not be as big or bright as teh same ship blowing up in a planetary
PM>atmosphere....

        The smoothness is far too smooth. Regardless of how much
friction there is in space, the ships and stations would be constructed
from more than one piece.

-=-
 * OLX 2.2 * Every mushroom cloud has a silver lining.

--- SLMAIL v3.5C  (#1540)
 * Origin: Robotech  -=-Fansubbed anime available upon request-=- (1:3600/7)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 280 of 441
 From : Frank Glover                        1:2613/477      .åò 11 .þë 96 22:43
 To   : Bob Klahn
 Subj : Re: MINBARI AND B5
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

BK>   LR>  When we finally contact an alien race I sure hope they know
BK>  what to
BK>   LR>  do... >:[
BK>
BK>   Then again, maybe we just decide that first contact teams are
BK>  expendable.

   "And by their red shirts shall ye know them..."

   Frank


--- QuickBBS 2.81 GoldBase (Zeta-2.0b)
 * Origin: The Matrix Data Bank BBS, Rochester, Ny (1:2613/477)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 281 of 441
 From : Frank Glover                        1:2613/477      .åò 11 .þë 96 22:51
 To   : Glenn Shaheen
 Subj : Re: CANCELLED
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

GS>  BK> Well, I for one feel that, aside from medicine and computers, we
GS>  haven't
GS>  BK> really advanced a whole lot since the '50s. Of course I know damn
GS>  well
GS>  BK> that's not true, it's just a feeling.

GS>          It's my opinion that people as a whole are getting more and
GS>  more stupid as we invent more machines to think for them.

   The 20th century has no monopoly on people unwilling to think for themselves.
`Passive' entertainment like TV doesn't help, but is not the real culprit. OTOH,
computers make interactive things like this echo (and all other `nets')
possible, and that's a good thing.

   I'm much more scared by the willingness of many people to let *other people*
think for them, and/or do their own thinking uncritically....

   Frank


--- QuickBBS 2.81 GoldBase (Zeta-2.0b)
 * Origin: The Matrix Data Bank BBS, Rochester, Ny (1:2613/477)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 282 of 441
 From : Darre LuAllen                       1:3637/1        .åò 11 .þë 96 08:40
 To   : Glenn Shaheen
 Subj : cancelled
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 On 07-07-96 Glenn Shaheen wrote to Darre Luallen...

 DL> That was great!  I personally tire of all the "my show is better than
 DL> your show" arguements that occur in fandom.  However, it is when someone
 DL> is intend upon hating a show or story without ever giving it a chance,
 DL> my injustice meter goes off the scale.

 GS>         HEY! I AM giving it a chance! I have watched the last 3
 GS> episodes and I am tiring quickly of people saying I am a blithering
 GS> idiot who just wants to cause a ruckus.

 Don't get me wrong.  I never said that you fit that bill.  I implied it
 strongly, but never said it.  Seriously though, you aren't the only
 person I've heard ripping on a show that they haven't seen.  At a con
 a few years ago, I was talking to a cute girl who happened to like Trek.
 Things were going well until I mentioned that I love B5.  She looked at
 me like I was intent upon molesting her.

 "Why would you like that drek?"
 "I think it's a good show with a very realistic subtext."
 "It's just a poor copy of Deep Space 9."
 "Do what?  Not in the least.  Have you seen the last few episodes?  The
 last one alone ...."
 "I don't watch it.  Never have and never will."

 The conversation stalled right there and I walked off disgusted.  She
 probably stood there disgusted for a different reason.  The point is, if
 she had watched it and had a legitimate reason* for not liking it I would
 have shrugged it off.  For cute girls, I'm very forgiving.  To blindly
 trash a show just because it is similar to one you like is ludicrous.

 I am glad to hear that you are at least giving it a chance.  If you
 catch up on the storyline, watch an episode or two and still don't
 like it, then that is fine.  As long as you don't go an a "It sucks
 big astoriods and everyone who watches it is a geek" tirade, I'll stand
 by your right to NOT like it.  Just try to watch the show with an open
 mind, without prejudice.


 *BTW, for those wondering, a legitimate reason for disliking a show can
 be as simple as "It didn't really grab me."  or "I just didn't care for
 it."  However, you have to at least try it.  No cheating and jumping
 the gun.

                                         Darre LuAllen
___
 * OFFLINE 1.56 * Everyone knows the *proper* way to ascii a raspberry is
pfthpft.... jms

--- Maximus/2 3.01
 * Origin: Cumberland BBS -TN- V34 (1:3637/1)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 283 of 441
 From : Pavel Viaznikov                     2:5020/185.9    .åò 11 .þë 96 12:41
 To   : Michael Harper
 Subj : B5 Renewed
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.RFC-Path:
apex!apexua!f200.n464!f400.n5020!f35.n5020!f144.n5020!f269.n5020!f185.n5020!not-
for-mail
Hi, Michael!

Monday July 08 1996 07:31, Michael Harper wrote to Darre LuAllen:

 DL>> As an ex-Marine, I had a few problems with the SAAB, but on the whole
 DL>> I liked it.  It was just different enough to keep my attention.  I
 DL>> will be sad to see it go.  BTW, why name a show such that the
 DL>> initials spell a car's name?  Hum.  Perhaps it was just a matter of
 DL>> marketing that killed our show.

- BTW, not only a car but also a very good  (once) jet fighter...

                                         w/b.regards, Pavel

--- ifmail v.2.8
 * Origin:      2 beer or not 2 beer? (C) Shakesbeer     (2:5020/185.9)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 284 of 441
 From : Kay Shapero                         1:102/524       .pä 10 .þë 96 11:48
 To   : Darre LuAllen
 Subj : Genre Music
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Jul 08 12:46>, Darre LuAllen (1:3637/1) wrote to Paul Worley:

 DL> This brings me to a thought (on topic even):  Why is music the
 DL>lost medium for SF/F?  Few bands play music inspired by the genre.
 DL>Few movies or books speculate on the subject.  Perhaps I'm overlooking

 DL>something.
 DL>

There's lots of sf/f music around, witness Cat's Laughing, Urban Tapestry, Glass
Hammer, and various bands present and past have had titles from H.P. Lovecraft,
Michael Moorcock, and other famous writers.  There's also filk, the folk (though
not necessarily "folky") music of the science fiction/fantasy fan community.  I
maintain the Frequently Asked Questions file of the FILK echo, which includes
addresses of a number of filk music sellers.  If you're interested let me know
and I'll email you a copy.  (I'd rather use your internet address if you have
one - mine's kay.shapero@salata.com)  Or you can f'req it from StormGate Aerie
(1:102/525) as filkfaq.zip.

--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 285 of 441
 From : Kay Shapero                         1:102/524       .pä 10 .þë 96 11:51
 To   : Frank Glover
 Subj : Re: CANCELLED
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Jul 08 22:00>, Frank Glover (1:2613/477) wrote to Bob Klahn:

 FG>   Which reminds me of a lament of Chakotay's, from the first
 FG>ST:Voyager season: (to Tuvok) "You were working for her
 FG>(Janeway), Seska was working for the Cardassians...was anyone in
 FG>the Maquis working for me??"
 FG>

Which reminds *me* of an old Playboy cartoon where the feds burst into the room
full of nefarious plotters, and all present hold up badges.  "You mean we're
*all* agents?!"

--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 286 of 441
 From : Kay Shapero                         1:102/524       .åò 11 .þë 96 10:16
 To   : Paul Worley
 Subj : Sitcom stars
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Jul 09 01:19>, Paul Worley (1:2601/515) wrote to Kay Shapero:

 PW>I'm shocked!!! You don't remember him as the down and out, hobo
 PW>father on Night Court???

I've never SEEN Night Court.  Thus I've no idea who was on it.

--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 287 of 441
 From : Kay Shapero                         1:102/524       .åò 11 .þë 96 10:18
 To   : Darre LuAllen
 Subj : B5 Renewed
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Jul 09 11:04>, Darre LuAllen (1:3637/1) wrote to Kay Shapero:

 KS> requested be passed on to the programmers of a similar
 KS> panel title at an Arisia awhile back. I agree with him.:
 KS>
 KS>      STAR TREK VS. B5.  You who programmed this panel, you who
 DL>
 KS> But in science fiction, we all
 KS> stand together, protecting and sharing our diverse dreams,
 KS> or we do not stand at all.


 DL> I wish this was short enough to be a tagline.  I will print this
 DL>out, and perhaps have it done up as a t-shirt or button.  However,
 DL>I'm lost.  Do I credit this to JMS or KS?

You credit it to J. Michael Straczynski.  Everything in that post after the line
"I agree with him.:" was a quote of his message.

What I find interesting is that a lot of us "Original Trekkers" (well, sorta - I
didn't get into the fandom until the early '70s so wasn't around for Bjo's
letter writing campaign) are big B5 fans.  The ones who want to fight about it
appear to have come in later.

--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 288 of 441
 From : Kay Shapero                         1:102/524       .åò 11 .þë 96 10:22
 To   : Emilio Ares
 Subj : Re: TV shows
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Jul 08 13:42>, Emilio Ares (1:379/1) wrote to Kay Shapero:

 EA>although it has had its moments.  Do you know if and/or when
 EA>"Inconstant
 EA>Moon" will be released to the syndication market?

No idea.  I know it's been repeated at least once.

--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 289 of 441
 From : Kay Shapero                         1:102/524       .åò 11 .þë 96 10:22
 To   : Henry Triplett
 Subj : CGI vs Models
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Jul 09 08:19>, Henry Triplett (1:106/564) wrote to KAY SHAPERO:

 HT>want to deal with the reality at hand.  (CGI will render [has
 HT>rendered] models obsolete just as the blue screen eliminated the use of
 HT>strings to hold up models.)

Not in all applications - you're going to want solid props for as long as you
have solid actors, it being a lot EASIER to interact with a plastic handweapon
or a sponge rubber boulder than with empty air which is what you've got until
the effects wizards go to work.


 HT>On a similar note, I saw the movie "Dragonheart" awhile back.
 HT>While not
 HT>perfect, I found the CGI dragon with Sean Connery's voice (Drago)
 HT>to be quite convincing.

I liked that one myself.

--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 290 of 441
 From : Kay Shapero                         1:102/524       .åò 11 .þë 96 16:50
 To   : Glenn Shaheen
 Subj : cancelled
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Jul 07 16:53>, Glenn Shaheen (1:3600/7) wrote to Darre Luallen:

 GS>        HEY! I AM giving it a chance! I have watched the last 3
 GS>episodes and I am tiring quickly of people saying I am a
 GS>blithering idiot who just wants to cause a ruckus.

Hey, the more reasonable posts you make, the less problem you'll have.  You just
have to avoid doing things like announcing that B5's CGI is awful because you
didn't like S:AAB's effects and you're all set.

--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 291 of 441
 From : Kay Shapero                         1:102/524       .åò 11 .þë 96 16:57
 To   : Frank Glover
 Subj : Re: but about models...
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Jul 09 22:02>, Frank Glover (1:2613/477) wrote to Leman Russ:

 FG>   Now that I think about it, it should be possible (unless it's
 FG>an impossibly complex shape) to take the computer graphic data,
 FG>and use it to drive machine tools that could cut a precise
 FG>three-dimensional replica, giving you the best of both worlds....
 FG>
 FG>   And when we have nanotechnology, the distinctions could get
 FG>very fuzzy indeed....

We've already got what can best be described as a three dimensional printer -
you feed in a three dimensional computer generated shape, and it makes up a
model out of finely divided powder (plastic or metal - I don't know the
details.)  The idea is to make early prototypes to test out shapes under
development, but future improvements envisioned included a machine that could go
on an aircraft carrier or the like, to turn out various small parts so the
carrier doesn't have to stock every known screw type in the world.

--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 292 of 441
 From : Brion Lienhart                      1:213/700.2     .åò 11 .þë 96 09:29
 To   : Bob Klahn
 Subj : SITCOM STARS
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On Wed Jul 10, Bob Klahn said to Frank Glover:

KS>>  curiosity what sitcom did Brent Spiner act in?  The only thing I can
KS>>  recall seeing him in is Star Trek though I'm sure he's done other
KS>>  things during his career.

 FG>    I understand he gueststarred on Night Court once (among other
 FG>    things, I'm also sure), but I didn't see it myself.

 -BK> He had a semi-recurring role on Night Court. He played a "hill billy"
 -BK>type with a couple of kids, and married to his cousin. All very low IQ
 -BK>types.

I seem to recall a running gag about them being the unluckiest family in the
world. Granny bursting in flames, their shopping cart blowing up, stuff like
that. Every time they showed up in court they had another hard luck story.



--- QM v1.31
 * Origin: Ministry of Peace - Carson City, NV (1:213/700.2)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 293 of 441
 From : David Johnston                      1:342/14        .åò 11 .þë 96 00:18
 To   : Patrick Long
 Subj : Minbari And B5
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
-> BK-=> In any event, the original point was not that the Minbari are
-> -=> inferior to humans, but that they are not vastly superior.  Your
-> -=> own points serve to prove that the Minbari are not morally or -=>
-> culturally superior to humans.
-> Using Human standards, of course.  Using Minbari standards, who
-> knows?

When did we stop being human so that we are no longer allowed to use
human standards?

--- PCBoard (R) v15.21/100
 * Origin: Freddy's Place - Edm. AB - 33.6K (403) 413-3460 (1:342/14)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 294 of 441
 From : David Johnston                      1:342/14        .åò 11 .þë 96 00:28
 To   : Darre Luallen
 Subj : B5 Renewed
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
-> but it is OUR pile of rubble."  Which brings me to my next point: if
-> Trek is all about universal understanding and equality, then

Is it?  One of the things I noticed about TNG in particular is the
absolute lack of comprehension on the part of the rather sheltered
characters toward lesser cultures such as our own.
In fact, they were frequently downright contemptuous of us.

I would say rather that Trek is really about the mystique of limitless
frontiers and aspirations.

--- PCBoard (R) v15.21/100
 * Origin: Freddy's Place - Edm. AB - 33.6K (403) 413-3460 (1:342/14)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 295 of 441
 From : Henry Triplett                      1:106/564       .åò 11 .þë 96 23:53
 To   : JEFF HANCOCK
 Subj : Japanese SF
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

-=> Quoting Jeff Hancock to Nicolai Shapero <=-

 JH> I guess that depends on your area.  There are a number of mass-media
 JH> stores which do carry anime, such as Media Play, which has a fairly
 JH> decent selection.

Are the Media Play stores still open in your area?  In the past month, I've
noticed that four of their stores in the Houston area have closed.  I
haven't made it to the far west end of town to see if the others are
still in business.

Henry

... "Die, d*mn you, and *stay dead* this time!!!" - Dungeons & Dragons

___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20 [NR]
--- GEcho 1.00
 * Origin: Eat Flaming Death    Houston Texas    713-447-1927 (1:106/564)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 296 of 441
 From : Leman Russ                          1:2250/7        .åò 11 .þë 96 03:48
 To   : Nicolai Shapero
 Subj : Re: Japanese SF
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 Well, have you ever been to a blockbuster video store? I was this very day, and
they had a decent section of japanamie like A-ko, guyver, etc. Look it up.

>:[

--- DLG Pro v1.0/DLGMail
 * Origin: Sage's Tower - Amiga - (618) 259-1844 (1:2250/7)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 297 of 441
 From : Leman Russ                          1:2250/7        .åò 11 .þë 96 03:52
 To   : Frank Glover
 Subj : Re: but about models...
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 FG>    Now that I think about it, it should be possible (unless it's an
 FG> impossibly complex shape) to take the computer graphic dat and use
 FG> it to drive machine tools that could cut a precise three-dimensional
 FG> replica, giving you the best of both worlds....

 I've seen something better: a system that uses a a UV sensitive resin to
directly turn CGI models into objects.

 This kid had a deformed skull, andthey had to make a "plate" to mend it, andthe
plate had to fit perfectly. Even wiwith 3d images this meant opening upthe skull
and trying to trim the plate to fitwith the kids brain exposed.

 BUT, the new technique tookthe 3d image made my the NMR scans and uses a pair
of hipower UV lasers to solidify a special resin int oan exact duplicate of the
deformed skull. Basically there was a vat of this resin with a porous floor that
allowed tiny amounts t obe injected evenly into the vat.

 The computer controlled a pair of UV lasers that traversed as fast as the CRT
in your monitor, and wh the beams intersected the resin solidified. Then more
resin was injected andthe process repeater. Voila! A perfect model of the
deformed skull slowly arose from this vat of honey-like resin. Amazing
breakthru, and incredibly it wasn;t military in nature.

 I saw it on a science show.

>:[

--- DLG Pro v1.0/DLGMail
 * Origin: Sage's Towe- Amiga - (618) 259-1844 (1:2250/7)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 298 of 441
 From : Leman Russ                          1:2250/7        .åò 11 .þë 96 04:00
 To   : Jeff Hancock
 Subj : Re: Japanese SF
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 I have the first Dp ep on tape, and tes indeed they list the names ofthe
original cast members on a screen i nthe background.

 I heard about the Kei and Yuri reference in that TNG ep with the ferengi,but
not about thestarmaps.

 Nausicans, yes there was a video called "Nausica inthe valley of wind" I think.

>:[

--- DLG Pro v1.0/DLGMail
 * Origin: Sage's Tower - Amiga - (618) 259-1844 (1:2250/7)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 299 of 441
 From : Leman Russ                          1:2250/7        .åò 11 .þë 96 04:14
 To   : All
 Subj : missed some
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
I may have missed some mail due to a fidonet failure, so if I didn;t reply to
something I'm not being rude, OK?

>:[

--- DLG Pro v1.0/DLGMail
 * Origin: Sage's Tower - Amiga - (618) 259-1844 (1:2250/7)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 300 of 441
 From : Kevin van Houten                    1:124/7012.1701 .pä 10 .þë 96 22:39
 To   : Kay Shapero
 Subj : Sitcom stars
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.MOOD: Worried :-!

 KS>>> what sitcom did Brent Spiner act in?
 Kv>> recurring 'hick' character on Night Court.
 KS> before or during his ST career?

It was at least during.  Was Night Court on before 87?

 KS> Sounds like an interesting change of pace for the actor. :->

I dunno.  It seemed like every other week or so on TNG that Data
was 'discovering' some new emotion or another.  :)
(Hope I didn't quote too much for Nicolai this time. <grin>)
--- Terminate 4.00
 * Origin: Rawhide Creek Brewpub, Texas Sector, TEROK NOR (1:124/7012.1701)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 301 of 441
 From : Todd Sullivan                       1:202/720.3     .åò 11 .þë 96 18:00
 To   : Kay Shapero
 Subj : CANCELLED
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Reports from the Interior indicate that Kay Shapero leaked the following to Mark
Jones, re: CANCELLED

 KS> On <Jul 05 20:32>, Mark Jones (1:105/302.47) wrote to Bob Klahn:

 MJ>>   They never once even *mentioned* the "moral implications" of
 MJ>> tampering with a man's mind (despite their claims to moral
 MJ>> superiority at every turn).

 KS> Yep, I quit thinking of the Federation as "the good guys" a long time
 KS> ago.  Didn't star thinking of them as "the bad guys" mind you, they're
 KS> just the side most of the protagonists happen to be on.


What always annoyed the daylights out of me was how PC Trek had become, as well
as hiding behind the PD everytime something requiring ethics and integrity
reared its ugly head.

No wonder Worf's brother went native.

Todd Sullivan

... Hello, I am part number ¦ºÞº¦º¦Û¦ºÝ¦ºÝ¦¦

-*- ASTG 1.9

--- Spot 1.3a Unregistered
 * Origin: Todd's Spot in the Continuum (1:202/720.3)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 302 of 441
 From : Glenn Shaheen                       1:3600/7        .pä 10 .þë 96 19:36
 To   : Henry Triplett
 Subj : CGI vs Models
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

HT>Interesting and alarming are good words.  So is frightening!   Of course
HT>the fellow in question probably just put his blinders on because he didn'
HT>want to deal with the reality at hand.  (CGI will render [has rendered]
HT>models obsolete just as the blue screen eliminated the use of strings to
HT>hold up models.)

        You people talking about me behind my back <tut tut>. To me,
CGI just looks too much like cartoons. I've seen space videos, although
I wasn't around at the original Moon landing.

-=-
 * OLX 2.2 * You're so stupid, even Big Brother won't watch you!

--- SLMAIL v3.5C  (#1540)
 * Origin: Robotech  -=-Fansubbed anime available upon request-=- (1:3600/7)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 303 of 441
 From : Lis Carey                           1:101/230       .îí 08 .þë 96 21:23
 To   : Darre Luallen
 Subj : B5 RENEWED
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
DL> LC> This is really rather pointlessly unfriendly of you. I don't like
DL> LC> SEINFELD, which makes me downright unAmerican, as far as I can tell, an
DL> LC> I do get tired of people raving about it - but I don't go around wishin
DL> LC> it would get cancelled; I just don't watch it.

DL> BK> Hmmm.. and I was beginning to think I was the only one.

DL> MH>  Hey, I can take or leave Seinfeld. There are usually better things to
DL> MH>  watch. Although Julia Louis-Dreyfus is a serious babe, the rest of the
DL> MH>  show doesn't really interest me.

DL> Seinfeld?  Isn't he some sort of stand up comic?

Yeah, except that for reasons still mysterious to me [though apparently
not to the bulk of the American viewing public:)], they gave him a
television sitcom of his very own.

DL> BK> OTOH, I'm still in shock over SAAB. If B5 went I'd really be down.

DL> MH>  I missed the season finale. Has Fox pulled the plug?

DL> As an ex-Marine, I had a few problems with the SAAB, but on the whole I
DL> liked it.  It was just different enough to keep my attention.  I will be
DL> sad to see it go.  BTW, why name a show such that the initials spell a
DL> car's name?  Hum.  Perhaps it was just a matter of marketing that killed
DL> our show.

I don't think the practice of referring to shows by their initials is
terribly widespread, outside sf fandom and off the computer networks. It
probably never occurred to them as a consideration.

DL> MH>  The problem is the studios. Paramount will attack anything that
DL> MH>  threatens its cash cow. Warner really doesn't know what they've got
DL>   <deleted for brevity, the sequel>

DL> Yes.  Not only in SF, but in all TV programming, networks and studios
DL> are in some stupid ratings war.

That "stupid ratings war" is an essential part of the _business_ they're
in. Ratings=advertising dollars=PROFITS. If they're not profitable, they
go out of business. If they're not profitable _enough_, the major
stockholders may oust the board and install a new board which will
pursue differently, hopefully more profitable, policies.

Suggesting that it's childish or stupid for networks and studios to
focus on ratings shows a profound misunderstanding of what business
they're in.

DL>From SF to sitcoms even to pro-wrestling,
DL> the suits are under the mistaken impression that we viewers are going
DL> to be loyal to ONE station.  That is so stupid.

No, they're _not_ under the impression that you're going to be
completely loyal to just _one_ station. HOWEVER, past experience has
shown them that the _right_ line-up on a given night can keep millions
of viewers tuned in to one station or network for _that_ entire evening
- and when they can manage it, they get to charge the advertisers more
for the advertising time.


DL>I have 40 some odd
DL> channels on my cable box which I pay hard stolen money for.  I'm not
DL> going to watch just one of them.  Has anyone considered the idea of
DL> putting their shows on at different times from those of another
DL> network?

They _do_ have shows on at different times - LOIS & CLARK is not on at
the same time as VOYAGER, for instance.:) However, any network with a
full schedule [which UPN doesn't have yet] INEVITABLY has _other_
programming on at the same time as other programs as the other networks
there's no way to avoid it. And - do you want a choice of what to watch
when you turn on the tv? Then you don't _want_ them to avoid it.

Deliberate counter-programming can sometimes manage to be truly
obnoxious - but that's what vcrs are for.

DL>Imagine the boost it would give both shows if Forever Night
DL> had advertised during Kindred and vice versa.  What if Babylon 5 had such
DL> an arrangement with SAAB?

The very LAST thing that any network or station wants to do is accept
advertising that _encourages_ viewers to change the channel. They'd
never be able to justify it to the stockholders. Remember: even if the
show you're watching isn't on when the other show on the other network
is on, the network has _other_ programming that's on then, which is in
direct competition with that other show. They _know_ they can't get all
of your viewing time, but they want to get as much of it as possible;
they're not going to encourage you to change the channel.

The most you'll see, occasionally, with enlightened local station
management, is some promos for the local _public_ station. And the
networks will accept some advertising for PBS, or for cable services.
But never, ever for their direct commercial broadcast competitors.

DL>Now here's a toughie:  If Voyager and DS9 are
DL> put out by the same people, then why don't they cross advertise?  I mean,
DL> regardless of what network they are on, Paramount would really only help
DL> itself if both shows did well.  And the typical station carrying DS9 does
DL> not care where the ad money comes from.  The suits are so blind, it's
DL> stupid.

You're mistaken - Paramount would be happy to cross-advertise, but the
local stations care VERY MUCH about accepting advertising that
encourages viewers to go watch other stations.  You'll see
cross-advertising only when DS9 is on the Paramount station.

The suits aren't nearly as blind and stupid as you think.

 * OLX 2.1 TD * Does a radioactive cat have 18 half-lives?

--- FLAME v1.0
 * Origin: Withouta Net - Drop In Anytime! - 617/846-5416 (1:101/230)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 304 of 441
 From : James Walton                        1:129/260       .åò 11 .þë 96 11:26
 To   : Jeff Hancock
 Subj : Re: CANCELLED
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 JH> Transporting in the Star Trek style would seem to be the ultimate form
 JH> of nudity.  Just your atoms streaming through the cosmos.  Not even bare
 JH> skin, but bare *everything*.  And if you happen to be religious, you
 JH> just HAVE to wonder about your "soul", and if some part of you really
 JH> dies every time you get taken apart and put together again.

There was a short story published in Asimov's called "Think Like a Dinosaur"
which gives the lowdown on what Transporting is probably really like.





--- Via Silver Xpress V4.00 SW12427
 * Origin: ConFluence '96:  Return to Mars! (1:129/260)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 305 of 441
 From : Bob Klahn                           1:234/2         .ÿò 12 .þë 96 21:43
 To   : Frank Glover
 Subj : BUT ABOUT MODELS...
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 FG>
LR>>   Threre is one thing to say for models, tho: You can hang a model
LR>>  inthe smithsonian, like the original enterprise. Try putting a CGI in
LR>>  a museum.
 FG>
 FG>    Now that I think about it, it should be possible (unless it's an
 FG>    impossibly complex shape) to take the computer graphic data, and use
 FG>    it to drive machine tools that could cut a precise three-dimensional
 FG>    replica, giving you the best of both worlds....

  That is what they do with numerical controled machining. Remember a few
  years back when Toshiba got into trouble for selling a 9 axis machining
  system to Russia? It was used to manufacture submarine propellers that were
  much quieter than anything the Russians had at the time.

 I have read in some tech magazines about a system that uses a liquid
 plastic. The computer controls a pair of lasers that zero in on the desired
 point and the laser beams cause the plastic to solidify at that point. You
 program it to solidify the plastic in the shape of the product you want.

BOB KLAHN

... MOUSE.COM not found. Probably CAT error.
 * Silver Xpress V4.3P RB10275

--- FLAME v1.1
 * Origin: Telnet toltbbs.com or call 313-854-6001, Boardwatch #55 (1:234/2)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 306 of 441
 From : Bob Klahn                           1:234/2         .ÿò 12 .þë 96 21:43
 To   : Darre Luallen
 Subj : B5 RENEWED
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 DL>  Those who refuse to learn are condemned to stupidity.  Those who do not
 DL>  open their minds to infinite possibilities will never know the pure
 DL>  bliss of touching the face of God.  Those who refuse to accept the
 DL>  validity of others will never know the peace of acceptance.  I could
 DL>  go on, but I think I've yapped enough.  What I'm trying to say is,
 DL>  some people will

 DL>  I'll tell it on the mountain:  I like Babylon 5, Star Trek, Forever
 DL>  Knight, Highlander, Kindred, Sliders, SAAB and countless others past
 DL>  through the future.

 Amen! Amen! Amen!

 I still think _The Twilight Zone_ was the best SF ever, and I still think
 STTOS was too preachy, as is all ST. In spite of which I will continue to
 watch STTOS, or TNG, DS9 etc ad infinitum, and _The Outer Limits_ and all
 the ones you listed and a whole lot that isn't as good cause it ain't
 necessarily bad just because it's not number one. Of course I will also
 watch B5 and try desperately to catch the SAAB episodes that I missed.

 In the meantime we can all pray to whatever God, Gods, Goddesses or other
 devine or semidivine beings for more good SF.

 KS>> But in science fiction, we all
 KS>> stand together, protecting and sharing our diverse dreams,

 DL>  I wish this was short enough to be a tagline.  I will print this out,

 Why complain about that being too long for a tagline. I counted at least two
 very good potential taglines in your first paragraph above. Look first to
 the tag-material in your own post before you worry about the tagline in your
 friends.

 IOW, you done good.

BOB KLAHN

... Captain! I am sensing something painfully obvious. - Troi
 * Silver Xpress V4.3P RB10275

--- FLAME v1.1
 * Origin: Telnet toltbbs.com or call 313-854-6001, Boardwatch #55 (1:234/2)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 307 of 441
 From : Bob Klahn                           1:234/2         .ÿò 12 .þë 96 21:43
 To   : Jeff Hancock
 Subj : CANCELLED
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
BK>>transportation. Considering how strongly he felt about having his
BK>>atoms squirted across space, how did he ever deal with the thought
BK>>that on the other side of that thin ship skin is total vacuum, about

 JH> It wasn't all THAT thin... ;)  And there were the shields and force
 JH> fields and the transporter to beam him out of space if he were to get
 JH> there. ;-)

 The skin of any ship is going to be relatively thin, even an inch thick is
 thin when there is all that empty space around you. The shields and force
 fields seem to be what actually keep the ship whole, and don't seem likely
 to be much help to someone who doesn't trust the transporter.

 JH> Transporting in the Star Trek style would seem to be the ultimate form
 JH> of nudity.  Just your atoms streaming through the cosmos.  Not even bare
 JH> skin, but bare *everything*.  And if you happen to be religious, you

 I had never thought of it that way, but it does sound depraved.

 JH> just HAVE to wonder about your "soul", and if some part of you really
 JH> dies every time you get taken apart and put together again.

 There was a short story built on that premise. They had something more like
 Heinlein's stargates, but they chopped you into pieces and squirted you
 through something like Hyperspace. There were also ships, but they were
 limited to sub-light travel, or low trans-light, I don't recall. Their
 "religious philosophy" was based on the theory that time was made up of
 quantum units, and the entire universe was destroyed and recreated an
 infiinite number of times per second. That was why it didn't matter if you
 died at one end and came to life at the other, you were dying and being
 recreated all the time anyway.

 Simak's _Way Station_ also used a 'transporter' like system, only it was
 your "being" or mind that was transmitted, and the system created a body for
 you at the materialization end.

BK>>the most hostile enviornment imaginable. Floating up there... nobody
BK>>to help... no escape... just a fraction of an inch from certain
BK>>death... every minute of every hour of every day in space.

 JH> Space travel would seem to encourage claustrophiles... and if that also
 JH> means agoraphobics, what's more wide open then having every particle in
 JH> your body exposed to the ultimate expanse of space itself, by
 JH> themselves, without even the decency of a body to cling together in?

 Interesting thought. I recall one short about star travel only being
 possible for a select group of 'neurotics', called the "Golden", who did not
 get along with people well, but could stand the emptyness of space. Whereas
 everyone else who traveled in space had to do so in suspended animation. At
 a certain distance from a planet the "non-golden's" mind snapped.

 How about a star traveler's guild of claustrophile/agoraphobics who can
 travel between the stars, but can't bear to leave their ships?

BK>> Actually, it was out of respect for that race's own PD. They did not
BK>>share their technology with other races. Rather selfish to my mind, I
BK>>didn't see any sign they refused to accept knowledge from other

 JH> So it was just a more extreme form of the PD staring back at them. You'd
 JH> think they could at least have teleported the Voyager and given them a
 JH> leg up on the trip, even if they didn't give them the actual technology
 JH> to do so.

 Something I wondered about also.

BK>>  I'da stolen the damn thing and run.

 JH> Which is what happened anyway, wasn't it?

 Yep, Tuvok scored a few points in my book then.

BK>> Sure, we'd be resentful, but we'd adjust. The human mind has a vast
BK>>ability to rationalize that which is in it's own interest.

 JH> So you don't think we'd continue to hate the alien race, and keep trying
 JH> to gain from them so we could beat them in some form or fashion as a
 JH> form of racial revenge?

 We'd keep trying to gain from them and to beat them in something, not as a
 matter of revenge, but as a matter of ego. Like I said, the human race has a
 vast ability to rationalize.

BK>>  What we'd probably resent more is if they then went away and left
BK>>us to our own devices after that. We'd resent being told we weren't
BK>>worth the time to bother with, or advanced enough for contact.

 JH> Seems like we'd resent them either way.  All our hard work, and here
 JH> it's all for nothing, because we'd rather do it OURSELVES, by gum.

 We wouldn't mind getting someone else to do it for us, as long as we had the
 *capability* to do it.

BOB KLAHN

... Of course I'll still respect you in the morning!
 * Silver Xpress V4.3P RB10275

--- FLAME v1.1
 * Origin: Telnet toltbbs.com or call 313-854-6001, Boardwatch #55 (1:234/2)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 308 of 441
 From : Bob Klahn                           1:234/2         .ÿò 12 .þë 96 21:43
 To   : Kay Shapero
 Subj : CANCELLED
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 KS> On <Jul 07 09:24>, Bob Klahn (1:234/2) wrote to Nicolai Shapero:

 BK>>> We did not start the war, we just, well, I was going to say,
 BK>>>"won it", but
 BK>>> we really didn't. We just chased the Iraqis out of Kuwait.

 NS>> By definition, we won.

 BK>> Exactly the same way we won the Korean War.

 KS> Excuse me, gentlemen.... A war is a lot of people shooting at each
 KS> other to achieve an objective.  When one side achieves that objective,
 KS> whatever the heck it happens to be, that side has "won".  Since the

 The objective in a war is to defeat the enemy.

 KS> stated objective of Desert Storm was to chase the Iraqui troops out of
 KS> Kuwait, and the Iraqui troops were chased out of Kuwait, I'd say that

 If we won why do we still have to have troops over there? Sad that this
 thread happened around the time a bunch of those troops got killed. When you
 sin you tell the other guy what's what. We don't have a peace yet, so the
 war isn't over. So, we didn't win.

 KS> qualifies.  No matter what someone else thinks *ought* to have been
 KS> done (go read up on the end of WWII sometime and find out what Patton
 KS> thought *ought* to have been done at the end and wasn't sometime...)
 KS> Yes, this means sometimes both sides can "win", if they pick their
 KS> victory conditions carefully enough...

 If you want a war where both sides win, that implies both sides are morally
 equal.

 If they are not bad guys then we killed a whole lot of people for
 nothing. Where I come from that's called murder.

 KS> In fact that's probably the best way to win - if the other guy also
 KS> thinks he won, he's less likely to be out for revenge...  Take a look
 KS> at the historical method China has used to deal with invaders.

 If the other side is evil, then you destroy him, and you don't worry about
 him seeking revenge. To do otherwise just leaves the door open for him to
 try again. Do it right once and you don't have to do it again.

 KS> And to get back onto topic, anybody got some stfnal analogies?

 If the shadows had really been destroyed they would not be coming back to
 attack now.

 If the Federation had only established alliances with democratic governments
 they wouldn't have been faced with a war with their former ally.

 The price of support to the cardassians should be democracy. It's the only
 way to avoid the likelyhood of another war between the Federation and the
 Cardassians.

 The Federation should be spreading democracy, and arming all the
 non-dominion worlds of the Gamma quadrant.

 The Feds should be pushing for the destruction of the Dominion, and arming
 and preparing for just that.

BOB KLAHN

... "Aw mom, you act like I'm not even wearing a bungee cord!"
 * Silver Xpress V4.3P RB10275

--- FLAME v1.1
 * Origin: Telnet toltbbs.com or call 313-854-6001, Boardwatch #55 (1:234/2)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 309 of 441
 From : Bob Klahn                           1:234/2         .ÿò 12 .þë 96 21:43
 To   : Kay Shapero
 Subj : B5 TECH
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 KS> On <Jul 05 18:20>, Chris Farrar (1:246/20@fidonet.org) wrote to Kay
 KS> Shapero:
 CF>>compare that with the 20th century, and you're a Captain of a US
 CF>>sub, and an unknown sub approaches you with its torpedo doors
 CF>>open, you're liable to shoot first too...

 KS> As I've said before and am about to say again, First Contact is a hairy
 KS> way to make a living.  At least the EA and Minbari each knew they were
 KS> coming into contact with an ALIEN species (not just an "unknown"
 KS> representative of what is probably a known group) for the first time.
 KS> It's dangerous to assume *anything* about the other guy's actions at
 KS> that point.  This has been the case historically on this planet, and

 The proper way to make first contact is to do so with a small, and unarmed
 group. If the other guy sends a fleet, you send one ship anyway. The first
 contact group is totally expendable.

BOB KLAHN

... Then, suddenly and embarrassingly, my swash came unbuckled...
 * Silver Xpress V4.3P RB10275

--- FLAME v1.1
 * Origin: Telnet toltbbs.com or call 313-854-6001, Boardwatch #55 (1:234/2)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 310 of 441
 From : Bob Klahn                           1:234/2         .ÿò 12 .þë 96 21:43
 To   : Kay Shapero
 Subj : SITCOM STARS
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 KS> On <Jul 08 13:52>, Kevin van Houten (1:124/7012.1701) wrote to Kay
 KS> Shapero:

 KS>> out of curiosity what sitcom did Brent Spiner act in? The only

 Kv>>He played a recurring 'hick' character on Night Court.

 KS> Was that before or during his ST career?  Sounds like an interesting
 KS> change of pace for the actor. :->

 During.

BOB KLAHN

... The only problems you should throw money at are the military's.  R.Reagan
 * Silver Xpress V4.3P RB10275

--- FLAME v1.1
 * Origin: Telnet toltbbs.com or call 313-854-6001, Boardwatch #55 (1:234/2)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 311 of 441
 From : Bob Klahn                           1:234/2         .ÿò 12 .þë 96 21:43
 To   : Nicolai Shapero
 Subj : CANCELLED
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 NS> On <Jul 07 22:57>, Peter McNeill (1:244/116) wrote to Mark Jones:

 PM>>Sounds like to me he isn't old enough to remember the Moon
 PM>>landing... htey said
 PM>>how sharp everything was with no blur between light and
 PM>>shadow.....

 NS> I, for one, remember sitting there watching those really bad TV
 NS> pictures from the moon.  "One small step for a man, a giant leap for
 NS> Mankind."

 NS> I was entering my sophmore year at UC Berkeley.  It was a hell of a
 NS> time.

 I was just coming off third shift in the comm shop at Hickam AFB, Hawaii.
 Someone had a B&W portable set up in the shop, and we all sat there and
 watched that step.

 Ah yes, I remember it well.

BOB KLAHN

... . Those were the days, my friend, we thought they'd never end....
 * Silver Xpress V4.3P RB10275

--- FLAME v1.1
 * Origin: Telnet toltbbs.com or call 313-854-6001, Boardwatch #55 (1:234/2)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 312 of 441
 From : Nicolai Shapero                     1:102/524       .ÿò 12 .þë 96 05:44
 To   : Owen E. Oulton
 Subj : MINBARI AND B5
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Jul 08 20:25>, Owen E. Oulton (1:243/45) wrote to Bob Klahn:

 OE>Minbari soul.  I suspect that Dukat had recieved one of those
 OE>letters from Valen, and that the entire Earth/Minbari war was
 OE>stage managed.  I don't think anything was left to chance.

As Sinclair said to Sheriden in WAR WITHOUT END, "there are no coincidences".

-- Nicolai Shapero, the Mad Russian Sysop of StormGate Aerie


--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

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 Msg  : 313 of 441
 From : Kay Shapero                         1:102/524       .ÿò 12 .þë 96 18:49
 To   : Glenn Shaheen
 Subj : CANCELLED
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Jul 08 21:55>, Glenn Shaheen (1:3600/7) wrote to Bob Klahn:

 GS>        It's my opinion that people as a whole are getting more
 GS>and more stupid as we invent more machines to think for them.

There are those who maintain that the total intelligence of the world is a
constant, and point out that the population is increasing...

I think it's just the effect of a) better communication so we all hear about
dumb things as soon as they happen and b) you increase the population of the
village but keep the same proportions you wind up with a larger absolute number
of village idiots.  And of course c) with modern technology the same idiot who a
couple of generations back would have killed himself by gumming up the safety
and causing a steam explosion in the factory boiler room can now kill lots MORE
people by causing one in a nuclear power plant.  :(

--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 314 of 441
 From : Kay Shapero                         1:102/524       .ÿò 12 .þë 96 18:38
 To   : Jeff Hancock
 Subj : CANCELLED
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Jul 09 18:32>, Jeff Hancock (1:3600/7) wrote to Lis Carey:

 JH>Did he ever state later if it was a joke or not?  Could have been
 JH>a mental misfire, thinking of Jake Sisko, or of the "J" sound in
 JH>"Benjamin".

Or did the Cisco Kid have a first name?

--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 315 of 441
 From : Kay Shapero                         1:102/524       .ÿò 12 .þë 96 18:50
 To   : Jeff Hancock
 Subj : Japanese SF
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Jul 09 18:54>, Jeff Hancock (1:3600/7) wrote to Nicolai Shapero:

 JH>With very good reason... it has to be one of the most difficult
 JH>languages to pick up on.  Other than English, that is. ;)

With the added boobytrap of the fact that Japanese is in some ways the language
of the pun.  As has been pointed out by Lee Gold, if you mispronounce a Japanese
word it is fatally easy to find you have correctly pronounced another Japanese
word.  (As a result, parts of Shogan had her in stitches - apparently
Blackthorne's pronounciation of "hai" sounds a lot like the word for "house".)

Ah well - speaking of difficult languages MY ambition someday is to see Cheyenne
Autumn in the company of a fluent speaker of Navajo.  From what I've been told
from two separate sources (one was Tony Hillerman, I don't recall who the other
was now), the folks hired to play the Indians were real Indians; only they were
Navajo not Cheyenne, and rather than being given specific lines were allowed to
improvise their own dialogue in their own language.  Needless to say, a lot of
the dialogue does not match the subtitles... :->  But, alas, since I know *zip*
from Dinee, this does me no good.

--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 316 of 441
 From : Henry Triplett                      1:106/564       .ÿò 12 .þë 96 11:11
 To   : KAY SHAPERO
 Subj : CGI vs Models
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

-=> Quoting Kay Shapero to Henry Triplett <=-

 KS> Not in all applications - you're going to want solid props for as long
 KS> as you  have solid actors, it being a lot EASIER to interact with a
 KS> plastic handweapon  or a sponge rubber boulder than with empty air
 KS> which is what you've got until  the effects wizards go to work.

Even in those cases, the prop will probably end up as a stand-in for the
item(s) that the FX wizards will put in.  I remember seeing a special on
the making of "Who Framed Roger Rabbit" where sticks, people, and other
items were used to interact with the live performers.  Later, the cartoon
-ists added the animated characters and objects (including Eddie Valiant's
'toon' pistol).  If it can work with animation, I'm sure it will work
with CGI.

Henry


... "I'm Sailor Moon!  I will right wrongs and triumph over evil!"

___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20 [NR]
--- GEcho 1.00
 * Origin: Eat Flaming Death    Houston Texas    713-447-1927 (1:106/564)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 317 of 441
 From : Robert Parson                       1:3822/1        .óá 13 .þë 96 10:42
 To   : Glenn Shaheen
 Subj : RE: PUT UP OR SHUT UP.
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
GLENN had a few words to say about Re: Put up or shut up.

 GS>         The smoothness is far too smooth. Regardless of how much
 GS> friction there is in space, the ships and stations would be constructed
 GS> from more than one piece.

Are the special effects enhancing the story, or are they telling the story?
While the effects are integral to the story telling process, they are not the
end all and be all.  If the story is well done I don't care if they're
tossing paper airplanes around the producer's living room.



The Official NEWSBOB(tm) of the 1996 Olympics

 * Silver Xpress V4.3 SW23473

--- QScan/PCB v1.19b / 01-0162
 * Origin: Jackalope Junction 501-785-5381 Ft Smith AR (1:3822/1)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 318 of 441
 From : David Little                        1:106/7315      .ÿò 12 .þë 96 08:57
 To   : Henry Triplett
 Subj : CGI vs Models
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
-=< Henry Triplett used the Jedi Mind Trick on me!>=-

 DL> You can have "Happy Accidents" with models that cannot be
 HT> What are "Happy Accidents?"

        A better sounding word for mistakes.<G> One of the artist that does
shows for PBS, Bob Ross, uses that expression quite often. "We don't make
mistakes, we have `Happy Accidents'!"

 HT> And if they achieve desireable FX
 HT> results,  why can't they be programmed?

        The way the light hits the model unexpectedly, the way the engines
fly off when the model explodes. I have yet to see a really cool and debris
filled CGI explosion.

 DL> programmed into CGIs. Even still, you can almost always point out the
 DL> CGI items because the pixelization is still there.
 HT> Yeah, I suppose if one is really looking for it.  But with the rate of
 HT> ad- vancement in computer technology, I doubt if this will be an issue
 HT> for long.  Meanwhile, the laws of physics (and the laws of money) will
 HT> continue to effect modelwork.

        With newer, faster, and cheaper computers coming out just about every
month, I have no doubt there will come a point we will see more CGI than
models. I also have a feeling we might even do away with actors ar some point.

 HT> ... Psst!  I heard David was socializing with Kai Winn!!

        Nowhere do the prophets say "NO hanky panky!"

                                        -=The DoLittle 8-)=-


... "Henry, don't give in to hate - that leads to the dark side."
--- Blue Wave/DOS v2.30 [NR]
 * Origin: The Wizards Realm BBS 1-713-946-7315 1:106/7315 (1:106/7315)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 319 of 441
 From : Leman Russ                          1:2250/7        .ÿò 12 .þë 96 00:14
 To   : Kay Shapero
 Subj : Re: Japanese SF
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 I was in a blockbuster video store, and they had some Anime, like A-ko,
Appleseed, etc.

>:[

--- DLG Pro v1.0/DLGMail
 * Origin: Sage's Tower - Amiga - (618) 259-1844 (1:2250/7)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 320 of 441
 From : Leman Russ                          1:2250/7        .ÿò 12 .þë 96 00:17
 To   : Owen E. Oulton
 Subj : Re: MINBARI AND B5
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 OEO> I'm perfectly convinced that the Minbari (ort least Dukat and the
 OEO> religious caste members of the Grey Council) knew exactly how the
 OEO> Terrans would interpret it.  I don't think it's at all a
 OEO> coincidence that Delenn, Dukat's hand-picked successor was there,
 OEO> and also at the Battle of the Line, a and that she selected
 OEO> Sinclair's crippled fighter so that they could "discover" his
 OEO> Minbari soul.  I suspect that Dukat had recieved one of those
 OEO> letters from Valen, and that the entire Earth/Minbari war was stage
 OEO> managed.  I don't think anything was left to chance.

 Not to be a flamjob, but I have a Liiiitle problem with that. Basically how
could they be cerain that Delenn would not be killed if she was that close to
Gul Dukat when he bought it? When heavy weapons start flying it n be a matter of
luck who gets killed and who doesn't.

 Forthat matter, how did dukat buy it and anyone on his ship survive if it was
hit hard enough, it should have opened to vacc and that's it for Delenn and
everyone else.

>:[

--- DLG Pro v1.0/DLGMail
 * Origin: Sage's Tower - Amiga - (618) 259-1844 (1:2250/7)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 321 of 441
 From : Leman Russ                          1:2250/7        .ÿò 12 .þë 96 00:23
 To   : Jeff Hancock
 Subj : Re: Japanese SF
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 You're right, there is other Anime that DP, and my local blockbuster carries
it. They have appleseed, A-ko, gall force  and more. I still wish someone would
do a new and tolerable translation of Domimion, the currentenglish version is
horrible, which is a pity given how good dominion is.

>:[

--- DLG Pro v1.0/DLGMail
 * Origin: Sage's Tower - Amiga - (618) 259-1844 (1:2250/7)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 322 of 441
 From : Leman Russ                          1:2250/7        .ÿò 12 .þë 96 04:00
 To   : All
 Subj : The only problem with cgi
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 I've left several messages extolling the virtue of CGI, and I've made it clear
that I think CGI is definately the way of the future, but in all fairness I must
admit there is one area where cgi still lags far behind current models and
effects technology: Explosions.

 CGI just can't do sometypes of explosions to save itits life. Now some
explosions, like "pure energy" types can be donewith CGI using lens flares and
such, but by and large CGI just can't make explosions as good as current
pyrotechnics can.

 I'll give someexamples: In "star wars" they had one of my favorite explosions.
It was the scene wherethe millennium falcon is escaping the death star and luke
wastes the last tie fighter. The explosion was really, really beautiful, withthe
fighter becoming a cloud of incandescent greenish gas lit by an orange glow in
the interior. The cloud blossomed from the center ofthe explosion andthen seemed
to burst out again directly at the viewer.

 When I think of good explosions in movies, I always remember than scene.

 Another wonderful and convincing explosion was in "red tide" where the sov sub
imploded and exploded. That was a complex underwater model shot involving a lead
hulled model, explsives andlarge vacuum jugs.

 So far no CGI system can make explosions that are convincing, and inthat one
specialized area current model/pyrotechnics are better than CGI.

 Also, the dramatic and tragic destruction of the enterprise in ST3 was one
ofthe most memorable explosions in SFX history.

 I'm sure CGI programmers are working on better explosions, and I stillthink
that CGI will eventually replace models and pyrotechnics eventually, mostly
because for everythingbut explosions cgi is as good or better than models. If
they could link CGI with normal pyrotechnics that wold be a good solution until
they get CGI explosions up to par.

>:[--- DLG Pro v1.0/DLGMail

 * Origin: Sage's Tower - Amiga - (618) 259-1844 (1:2250/7)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 323 of 441
 From : Leman Russ                          1:2250/7        .ÿò 12 .þë 96 04:25
 To   : Henry Triplett
 Subj : Re: CGI vs Models
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 You said a model exists and a cgi doesn;t. True, BUT!, both ofthem are just
images on your TV when they reach you, so the model is no more or less
realthanthe cgi at that stage amnd vice versa.

>:[

--- DLG Pro v1.0/DLGMail
 * Origin: Sage's Tower - Amiga - (618) 259-1844 (1:2250/7)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 324 of 441
 From : Jean Graham                         1:202/1313      .ÿò 12 .þë 96 16:19
 To   : Gamin Davis
 Subj : Still here?
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Hi Gamin!  Are you still here?  Send me a message if you are?  My system
suddenly, mysteriously started working again.

--Jean Graham

--- QuickBBS 2.80 Ovr (Zeta-1)
 * Origin: Written Worlds BBS - 619.697.4073 (1:202/1313)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 325 of 441
 From : Owen E. Oulton                      1:243/45        .óá 13 .þë 96 03:31
 To   : Kay Shapero
 Subj : Re: but about models...
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 KS> We've already got what can best be described as a three dimensional
 KS> printer - you feed in a three dimensional computer
 KS> generated shape, and it makes up a model out of finely
 KS> divided powder (plastic or metal - I don't know the
 KS> details.)  The idea is to make early prototypes to test
 KS> out shapes under development, but future improvements

Actually, it's a liquid polymer which is hardened by a scanning laser.  A thin
film is let into a tank, the laser hardens the appropriate areas, enough liquid
is let in to allow a thin layer over the hardened bits, the laser hardens the
appropriate areas of that layer, and so on.  It takes bloody forever, and the
model is quite rough.  However, it is a valuable tool for industrial use in that
it provides proof that the shape you've designed on the computer can actually
exist in three dimensions.

CFN, O

--- Maximus 2.01wb
 * Origin: Pandora's Box, Ottawa, Ont. 613-829-1209 (1:243/45)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 326 of 441
 From : Jeff Hancock                        1:3600/7        .ÿò 12 .þë 96 17:00
 To   : Leman Russ
 Subj : but about models...
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

LR> Try putting a CGI in a museum.

Holograms.  I can't remember if they're up to full color stand-alones,
but they do have a few ways of projecting a 3-D image.  None,
unfortunately, practical for a home television yet...

I wonder, if 3-D TVs ever became practical, how they would handle
filming.  Even with the necessary omission of the "fourth wall", and
sometimes the ceiling, that still creates a problem of camera placement.

LR> Speaking of models, I wonder whatever happened to the excellent
LR>models seen in "Battlestar Galactica"? Now that'd be a series to do

Who knows, assuming they still exist.  And there's something for CGI,
try making exact duplicates (backups!) of models cheap and easy.  Heck,
Joe's probably lucky that someone hasn't stolen the dataset for B5 or
the ships and posted them up on the Internet. ;)

-=-
 * Crazy-J * Yes, but you're taking the universe out of context.

--- SLMAIL v3.5C  (#1540)
 * Origin: Robotech  -=-Fansubbed anime available upon request-=- (1:3600/7)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 327 of 441
 From : Jeff Hancock                        1:3600/7        .ÿò 12 .þë 96 17:02
 To   : Glenn Shaheen
 Subj : cancelled
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

GS>        I don't like the way it looks.

I think we've pretty much established that by now, thank you very much.

GS>JH>point, have you any OTHER problem with B5 which won't turn out to
GS>        The show? Not many anymore.

Good.  Glad to hear it.

GS>The diehard fans? Many of them.

That works, not only both ways, but every which way but loose.

There's nothing worse than an obsessed fan . . . unless you agree with
him.
-=-
 * Crazy-J * "Vee haf vays of making you use Vindows!" - Adolf Gates

--- SLMAIL v3.5C  (#1540)
 * Origin: Robotech  -=-Fansubbed anime available upon request-=- (1:3600/7)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 328 of 441
 From : Jeff Hancock                        1:3600/7        .ÿò 12 .þë 96 17:19
 To   : Frank Glover
 Subj : Japanese SF
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

FG>   I kind of think I am...but you're still correct. I like to wade in
FG>it, while everyone else is either in (off?) the deep end, or out of
FG>the pool.

It's a weird division... of course it probably has something to do with
the fact that most people in this country consider animation immature
and for children, since with a few exceptions like the Simpsons that's
the only group being aimed at.  In Japan, it's not so limited...
recently I heard about a fansub project for a drama aimed specifically
at older women, and one of the most popular animated shows on TV over
there is basically about the moderately ordinary life of one Japanese
family, and the main character is the housewife.

Then you have the fact that, to help sell anime, the companies that buy
U.S. copyrights and sub/dub it for distribution here usually pick titles
with plenty of blood, nudity, violence, action, and the like...  i.e.
appealing to the adolescent ego.  Not that there's anything WRONG with
that ;) but there is a much wider range available that you don't usually
see commercially, simply because they don't think it will sell, at least
in comparison to the "kewl" stuff.  And they're probably right, but it's
a catch-22 situation.

Some companies are changing that, gradually.  Even A.D.Vision, one of
the worst of the lot, is putting out a few ... "more respectable" titles
lately.  But in general, the less flashy stories, dramas, romantic
comedies, and classic movies like those produced by Miyazaki almost
never seem to get exposure.  I heard Nausicaa was dubbed at one point by
some company and they completely hacked it up and changed the entire
plot around, it didn't sell, and they dropped it.

So what have you seen, and what would you recommend?

-=-
 * Crazy-J * HoloTag: Please state the nature of the tagline emergency

--- SLMAIL v3.5C  (#1540)
 * Origin: Robotech  -=-Fansubbed anime available upon request-=- (1:3600/7)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 329 of 441
 From : Jeff Hancock                        1:3600/7        .ÿò 12 .þë 96 17:27
 To   : Kay Shapero
 Subj : Japanese SF
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

KS> JH>Anyway, my favorites have been "soft" SF like Dirty Pair: Project
KS>I like the "Lovely Angels" myself...

Lovely Angels?  I've never seen an anime series called that. ;-)

KS>And I think some of the Lupin III episodes would qualify.

They might, at that.  I've only seen two so far, and they did have some
SFish elements, particularly for the time period they seem to be set in.

KS>Before you decide nobody in the US is interested in anime (which is
KS>manifestly NOT the case) just because they don't want videotaped
KS>copies of your collection, why not check one of the anime echoes?

Looks like I gave off the wrong impression.

"Nobody in the US"...  very few people in the couple of echos I gave it
a shot in seemed to show any interest _at all_, although I am/was
working on starting an occasional thread or two on the subject.

"don't want copies"...  that's not entirely the point, although I have
been whining a little too much about that. ;)  I was hoping to at least
arouse some curiosity, remind people that anime is more than they might
expect and let people know that there were alternatives they might not
have known about.  And if anyone followed up those URLs I listed, there
are plenty of people who can provide better copies than I can. :(  (not
that I mind them, just wish mine were of higher quality.  Most are a
couple gens down at least)

"check one of the anime echoes"... Already have done.  That's how I
learned about fansubbing in the first place. ;)  But I was just trying
to reach other people who aren't fans or are not quite fans or just
those that might be interested.  Why preach to the converted?  ;-)

Yes, I know, "why preach at all".  Sorry, don't mean to and shouldn't.

-=-
 * Crazy-J * Nature draws the line, I just keep crossing that sucker.

--- SLMAIL v3.5C  (#1540)
 * Origin: Robotech  -=-Fansubbed anime available upon request-=- (1:3600/7)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 330 of 441
 From : Jeff Hancock                        1:3600/7        .ÿò 12 .þë 96 17:32
 To   : Darre Luallen
 Subj : Japanese SF
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

DL> JH> Anyway, I've offered to copy some of the noncommercial fansubbed
DL> Really???  Let's talk...  Pro'ly better to take it to netmail.

Will shoot you a copy.

DL> I'd like to consider myself a casual anime viewer.  I might become a

So they exist!  ;)

DL>die hard fan, but I just don't have the time.  Recently I discovered

Interesting.  I would have thought money, considering the prices some
people charge, but...

What I generally do is watch a half hour a night while working out on
the treadmill... more if it's exciting enough so I don't notice the time
pass, less or none if I'm too pooped that day.

DL>_Bubblegum Crisis_ and _Bubblegum Crash_.  Unfortunately, the tape I

I've been meaning to try Crisis some time; but I hear Crash was an
inferior sequel.  Your opinion?

DL> Perhaps the most amazing anime I ever saw was a tape a friend had.

Oh?  Distributed by U.S. fans? ;)

DL>Seems there was a convention in Japan and the con staff asked for a
DL>fan created, anime opening scene.  The stuff produced by high school
DL>kids (or their equivalent) rivaled what the professionals at Disney
DL>turn out. The semi-pro works were better than anything I've seen in
DL>the States. Kinda makes me miss living on Okinawa.

Wow.  I've seen a good bit of high-class artwork in anime, but none of
it that I know of was non-professional in that sense.  Of course, that
was probably their pitch to get hired by an anime company. ;-)

-=-
 * Crazy-J * "Ensign C-ko?"  "She ate her own food, Jim..."

--- SLMAIL v3.5C  (#1540)
 * Origin: Robotech  -=-Fansubbed anime available upon request-=- (1:3600/7)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 331 of 441
 From : Jeff Hancock                        1:3600/7        .ÿò 12 .þë 96 17:43
 To   : James Walton
 Subj : Japanese SF
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

JW>Dirty Pair is difficult to find in English because it is too old. I

There are a few random episodes floating around the traders, but I would
suggest if you have web access that you check out Aquarian Productions
at: www.teleport.com/~tbutler/aquarian.html

He's got the first four subbed, and is working on the rest, but favors
quality over quantity so it'll probably be a good while before they're
done.  I've got a copy of the first four from him as well.

JW>have been unable to find a legal copy of the anime of Starship
JW>Troopers, because it is too old.

I don't think I've seen any fansubbed copies either... Do you know who
released it in the U.S.?  If you can't get it from them, maybe they'll
give up the copyright and fansubbers can go at it.

JW> A lot of the newer stuff is available on Laser Disk and has two
JW>soundtracks which you can toggle back and forth. In my city,

Are these imports or U.S. released?

-=-
 * Crazy-J * I bought a G-string today....IT'S ON MY GUITAR, PERVERT!!

--- SLMAIL v3.5C  (#1540)
 * Origin: Robotech  -=-Fansubbed anime available upon request-=- (1:3600/7)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 332 of 441
 From : Jeff Hancock                        1:3600/7        .ÿò 12 .þë 96 17:47
 To   : Brion Lienhart
 Subj : Japanese SF
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

BL> -JH>Okay, what SF anime have you seen and what would you recommend?
BL>Gall Force is pretty good.

I just looked it up in the Anime Primer.  Sounds like fun all right.
I'll have to see if Media Play carries it.

Still...  All the guys wiped out?  Sounds like a feminist fantasy. <g>

BL>You'll have to suffer through frequent pictures of nekkid wimmen

I can deal with that, but I do hope there's more to it.  Cheesecake is
all well and good, but it's not everything.

Baywatch notwithstanding.

-=-
 * Crazy-J * The Three Food Groups: Frozen, Instant, and Take Out.

--- SLMAIL v3.5C  (#1540)
 * Origin: Robotech  -=-Fansubbed anime available upon request-=- (1:3600/7)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 333 of 441
 From : Jeff Hancock                        1:3600/7        .ÿò 12 .þë 96 21:28
 To   : Brion Lienhart
 Subj : The sf channel
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

BL>CD>..and there was a young female officer in love with a tank.
BL> -JH>Was this a case of devout respect for fine machinery, or was the

BL>If it was Tank Police, it's more like that Napolean (the tank) is

I don't remember now.  CD was the one who saw it.

BL>Lena's baby, and nobody better mess with it. IIRC, she modified it

A far from uncommon sediment... er, sentiment.  Does she generally
relate better to machinery than humans, or is it not that cliche?

BL>It's like somebody who has a classic car that they really like.

Meaning there will be the obligatory scene where someone dents or
scratches it and she gets extremely annoyed and blows them away.

Another addition to the SF lineup, at least in the parody department,
would have to be the anime classic (or so they tell me ;)
"Project A-ko", which I finally saw the other night.

Hilarious story about the conflict between two girls, A-ko and B-ko,
competing for the friendship of a third, C-ko.  Although in the case of
B-ko, it looks like there's more than friendship on her mind. ;-)  Of
course, A-ko turns out to be the next closest thing to Supergirl (with
good reason), B-ko has an apparently unlimited supply of giant mecha to
pit against her, and some aliens with a whoomping big space battleship
seem to have taken an uncanny interest in the entire affair.  There's a
great action sequence near the end taking place in the backdrop of an
alien invasion that should please nearly any fan of super-powered
slugfests. <g>  There are also tons of jokes and in-jokes, including a
robot cockpit with an oscillating dashboard fan and a brief cameo
appearance by Yuri of the Dirty P--I mean, Lovely Angels! ;-)

I can at least recommend the sub, although I've heard Dire Things about
the treatment of the dub... :/
-=-
 * Crazy-J * "But, my brain is very very compact!" - Damaramu

--- SLMAIL v3.5C  (#1540)
 * Origin: Robotech  -=-Fansubbed anime available upon request-=- (1:3600/7)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 334 of 441
 From : Michael Harper                      1:123/10        .pä 10 .þë 96 09:12
 To   : David Little
 Subj : CGI vs Models
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
While sipping a dry martini, David Little told Henry Triplett about
CGI vs Models...

 DL> You can have "Happy Accidents" with models that cannot be
 DL> programmed into CGIs. Even still, you can almost always point out the
 DL> CGI items because the pixelization is still there.

 Only if it's badly done. The simple fact is that, in either medium, you
 can get cheesy work; there were spots in ID4 that looked cheap to these
 trained eyes. There are trembling mattes in _The Empire Strikes Back_,
 the first Trek movie, and several other films, including some a lot
 more recent. There is lousy CGI work in television and film. Crappy
 work is crappy work, regardless of whether it's CGI or models.

 The best thing you can say about CGI is that it costs a lot less than
 models, and it's more flexible. The Starfuries in B5 couldn't be done
 as models; no mounting points. The other ship designs are possible, but
 the cost of modeling them would make the show prohibitively expensive.
 At the bottom line, it's the cost that makes CGI so attractive for this
 sort of thing. Models would cost ten times as much.


... "C'mon, rookie, park that thang..." --Deke Slayton
--- RA/FD/FMail
 * Origin: The Eclectic Fox -- Memphis TN  (901)327-1008 (1:123/10)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 335 of 441
 From : Michael Harper                      1:123/10        .pä 10 .þë 96 09:12
 To   : Leman Russ
 Subj : more CGI defense..
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
While sipping a dry martini, Leman Russ told All about more CGI defense.....

 LR> I just wanted to add something to my defense of CGI. There are shots
 LR> and effects that can be done with CGI that CANNOT be made with models,
 LR> period.

 Exactamundo.

 LR> For example, morphing. What's the only morphing you can do without
 LR> CGI? Claymation or normal animation, neither of which work as well as
 LR> CGI morphs.

 There's a stopmotion method for morphing, but it's slow and painfully
 imprecise. Shooting a morph one frame at a time is a pain, especially
 when all you need to do these days is run it through a computer...

 LR> Also, look at the flying spiders of B5. That "writhing" silvery-black
 LR> texture of theirs could not be done by any model technique I know of,
 LR> and I've studied the topic.

 Right again. That's texture mapping, and it's not possible any other
 way. Incidentally, Ron Thornton got that effect by taking a digital
 sampling from his dog's wet nose. He threw that into the texture file,
 tweaked it a bit, and voila.

 LR> So I think we should all face it: CGI will replace models soon
 LR> because you can do everything with CGI you can do with models, and
 LR> models can't do things CGI can do, and CGI is cheaper and easier once
 LR> you've got it down.

 It's also faster. If you've got a bunch of Connection Machines
 rendering your CGI, you can do things in a fraction of the time you'd
 need to build models and film them.

 I'm going to add something else, if I can get it to come up right. This
 is from JMS, and may give you an idea about what's planned for the next
 Star Wars film...

     * I was at the Emmys tonight for the presentation of the B5 Emmy,
       and in the visual efx area, more than one shoe can get an Emmy. So
       we got one, DS9's pilot got one, and Lucas' Young Indy show got
       one. (We sat at the next table to Lucas and his bunch, in fact,
       and noted that he watched the B5 footage with considerable
       interest.) So when you come right down to it, here we were, our
       first shot out of the box, and we ended up on the same level of
       appreciation as Trek and Lucas. Not too dusty....

     * And y'know...it's absolutely in keeping with the Straczynski luck,
       and the history of this show, that the year B5 wins an Emmy is the
       first year that they DON'T do the recap of last night's technical
       awards. Ah, well....

 Does this tell you anything? It tells me that Lucas started looking
 very seriously at CGI after seeing B5 for the first time... and as a
 result, we're getting Star Wars the way it should've been done before,
 with restored footage that was impossible to do properly twenty years
 ago. In a lot of ways, Jurassic Park was a testbed for Star Wars: The
 Restored Edition. What they did there was truly astonishing; what
 they're doing for SW is gonna make both JP and ID4 look cheap.



... I'm so excited all six of my nipples are tingling.
--- RA/FD/FMail
 * Origin: The Eclectic Fox -- Memphis TN  (901)327-1008 (1:123/10)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 336 of 441
 From : Michael Harper                      1:123/10        .pä 10 .þë 96 12:39
 To   : Frank Glover
 Subj : B5 Renewed
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
While sipping a dry martini, Frank Glover told Michael Harper about B5
Renewed...

 FG> Yeah, too bad. It would've been far more interesting than watching
 FG> people chase after Elizabeth Taylor's pearls through several CBS
 FG> sitcoms on one evening awhile back....

 Yeah, but that was just one network; for some bizarre reason, the
 various networks just can't seem to stand the notion of working
 together...

... "I was going to *talk* our way out of this one." -- Brisco
--- RA/FD/FMail
 * Origin: The Eclectic Fox -- Memphis TN  (901)327-1008 (1:123/10)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 337 of 441
 From : Michael Harper                      1:123/10        .îí 08 .þë 96 21:30
 To   : Todd Sullivan
 Subj : B5 renewed
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
While sipping a dry martini, Todd Sullivan told Glenn Shaheen about B5
renewed...

 TS> My biggest and most important gripe is with the scripting and
 TS> plotting.  No explanations, poor continuity, bad characterization,
 TS> little growth, good ideas they frittered away, and the excessive Kazon
 TS> appearances.

 Agreed. Lots of missed opportunities there... and the Kazons are not
 the only aliens out there, but we see them every time we turn around.

 TS> Seska's obsessive pursuit and Chakotay's refusal to deal with her.
 TS> Come on, if she was a real threat, she'd have been dealt with
 TS> permanently.

 In the real world, yes. This ain't it. Besides, television realities
 demand a recurring villain/villainess.

 I have gotten a kick outta watching the Maj grump about how Seska won't
 keep her damn big mouth shut...

 TS> Chakotay's schizoid handling of his heritage and beliefs.

 This is annoying. I chalk it up to writers who really don't know
 anything about Amerind culture.

 TS> The "split Voyager" episode was handled poorly, other than someone
 TS> actually dying.  Too much talk, less work.

 That's typical.

 TS> I could go on, but why?  A whole season just to set the tone?  Welcome
 TS> to cancellation.

 But it won't happen. Paramount has too much riding on the show; they'll
 run it until they run Trek into the ground. Trek will wind down into a
 faint ghost of what it should have been, and be gone forever; and
 Paramount will blame the fans for killing off the franchise because
 it'll be easier than blaming themselves for the poor quality of the
 shows.

 GS>         The BBS I'm on doesn't get the Trek echo.

 TS> Count yourself lucky.

 The BBS I'm on gets the echo, but I refuse to take it. I get this echo
 for intelligent sf/media conversation, and the B5 echo for specifics on
 my favorite series. And even it gets boring at times; there are about
 half a dozen people on there who are worth reading, such as Marlyn
 Bumpus and the wonderfully witty Kay Shapero. The ones who post this
 Trek vs. B5 crap are annoying as hell.

 Capt. Michael Harper
 EAS Margaret Polk, "Miss Maggie"
 Commanding Officer, Attack Force Gamma, "The Mad Welshmen"
 Earthforce Resistance

... "I think we just had our glitch for this mission." --Jim Lovell
--- RA/FD/FMail
 * Origin: The Eclectic Fox -- Memphis TN  (901)327-1008 (1:123/10)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 338 of 441
 From : Michael Harper                      1:123/10        .îí 08 .þë 96 21:30
 To   : Jeff Hancock
 Subj : Japanese SF
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
While sipping a dry martini, Jeff Hancock told Leman Russ about Japanese SF...

 JH> I've offered to copy some of the noncommercial fansubbed anime I have
 JH> in a number of echoes, and have had zero requests to date, so it
 JH> just seems like there isn't a whole lot of interest from people who
 JH> aren't already dedicated fans.  Apparently you either are or you
 JH> aren't, without any middle ground... At least with standard SF you can
 JH> watch something like ID4 or the occasional Trek without being a
 JH> die-hard SF fan, but it seems there are no casual or moderately
 JH> interested anime viewers in this country.

 Very true, Jeff. I'm not a diehard anime fan, but I love DP, and would
 dearly love to have those episodes you've got. Problem is money. If
 you'll send me a list of what you've got available, I'll get it around
 to the people I know who're anime addicts; I might be able to drum up
 some business for ya.



... Screw the prime directive. If it moves, SHOOT IT!
--- RA/FD/FMail
 * Origin: The Eclectic Fox -- Memphis TN  (901)327-1008 (1:123/10)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 339 of 441
 From : Michael Harper                      1:123/10        .òp 09 .þë 96 21:25
 To   : Kay Shapero
 Subj : Sitcom stars
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
While sipping a dry martini, Kay Shapero told Jared Callanan about Sitcom
stars...

 KS> Can't comment on the movie, not having seen it yet, but just out of
 KS> curiosity what sitcom did Brent Spiner act in?  The only thing I can
 KS> recall seeing him in is Star Trek though I'm sure he's done other
 KS> things during his career.

 Brent was a semi-regular on _Night Court_, Kay. He played this
 stereotypical hick named Bob who ran the snack bar. And he was funny as
 hell. The character was about as different from Data as night from day.


... A rose for Kay Shapero.       ---<--<-@
--- RA/FD/FMail
 * Origin: The Eclectic Fox -- Memphis TN  (901)327-1008 (1:123/10)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 340 of 441
 From : Myra I Fox                          1:123/10        .ÿò 12 .þë 96 08:15
 To   : Michael Harper
 Subj : Sitcom stars
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

-=>Quoting Michael Harper to Kay Shapero<=-

 MH> Brent was a semi-regular on _Night Court_, Kay. He played this
 MH> stereotypical hick named Bob who ran the snack bar. And he was funny
 MH> as hell. The character was about as different from Data as night from
 MH> day.

That is how I recognized him in INDEPENDENCE DAY, by that accent! <g>






... "I understand your concerns.  Request denied." - Data
--- RA/FD/FMail
 * Origin: The Eclectic Fox -- Memphis TN  (901)327-1008 (1:123/10)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 341 of 441
 From : Michael Harper                      1:123/10        .ÿò 12 .þë 96 13:17
 To   : Darre LuAllen
 Subj : Scheduling SF shows
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
While sipping a dry martini, Darre LuAllen told Michael Harper about Scheduling
SF shows...

 DL> Networks should realize that 60 Minutes is as entrenched in the
 DL> American mentality as the Pledge of Allegieance (and about as
 DL> outdated).  If they would settle for what numbers they can get on
 DL> Sunday night and sell ad space cheap, then more show would survive
 DL> the "death slot".  Lois and Clark seems to do quite well in that
 DL> neighborhood.

 Yeah, but Lois and Clark isn't in the death slot proper; it's opposite
 Murder, She Wrote, and has a built-in audience already. Space, an
 entirely new show, being slotted against 60M was in a much less tenable
 position. I can see Fox's point, though; put it against 60M and rake in
 the viewers who don't watch the news.

 DL> Some of this I knew and some I didn't.  Got involved with a group of
 DL> costumers once.  We decided to do a series of "four horsemen" skits
 DL> at  local cons.  Another group decided the same thing.  Although it
 DL> was   weird to see, neither group took anything away from the other's
 DL> efforts.  Granted, we did get involved in the competitive spirit
 DL> mindset.
 DL> Later, I discovered that our costumer stole the idea from the other
 DL> group.  That didn't affect anyone's fun.  The point is it is possible
 DL> to have two of something without it being too much.  People compared
 DL> the skits, as you might expect.  However, no one got crazy about
 DL> "Our  Favorite Group did better than Your Favorite Group."  With DS9
 DL> and B5,  fans have almost formed two armed camps.

 The annoying thing is, it's totally unnecessary. There's no law that
 says you can't watch and enjoy both shows.

 DL> Nice piece of wisdom.  The secret of good writing is not the idea but
 DL> what you do with it.  Shakespeare used only two basic ideas:  "bad
 DL> guys  do nasty things but it works out in the end for the good guys"
 DL> and   "bad guys do nasty things and everybody dies".  But what he did
 DL> with   these ideas is remarkable.
 DL>
 DL> Excuse my ignorance, but is Barbara Hambly a writer?

 And a very good one, too. She's done several Trek novels, a couple of
 dynamite fantasy trilogies, some crosstime sf, some vampire tales...
 she's very talented, and a delight to be around. Has a wonderful sense
 of humor.

 DL> I remember this.  The two shows missed out on a BIG pay-off.  IIRC,
 DL> wasn't one of the networks game for it, but the other stepped on it?
 DL> They do such crossovers in comics all the time.  I think it has
 DL> happened  in books before.  Even ID4 had a few nods to SF shows and
 DL> movies.  Why are the networks so adamant about acting like sovereign
 DL> nations?

 There is where I run dry. I have no idea why the networks do the idiot
 things they do. I worked in television for a short time, and came to
 the conclusion that people in that business are insane.

 DL> BTW, are you in Memphis proper or the surrounding area?  Originally
 DL> from the area or a transplant?

 Born and raised. Educated to the point of spontaneous combustion. I
 live in Midtown, specifically Cooper-Young.


... "I'm just anxious to get up there and kick E.T.'s ass." --Hiller
--- RA/FD/FMail
 * Origin: The Eclectic Fox -- Memphis TN  (901)327-1008 (1:123/10)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 342 of 441
 From : Michael Harper                      1:123/10        .ÿò 12 .þë 96 22:11
 To   : Myra I Fox
 Subj : Sitcom stars
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
While sipping a dry martini, Myra I Fox told Michael Harper about Sitcom
stars...

 MH> Brent was a semi-regular on _Night Court_, Kay. He played this
 MH> stereotypical hick named Bob who ran the snack bar. And he was funny
 MH> as hell. The character was about as different from Data as night from
 MH> day.
 MIF>
 MIF> That is how I recognized him in INDEPENDENCE DAY, by that accent! <g>

 I knew he was in ID4, and I knew he was gonna be looking really
 scruffy, but I didn't know just HOW scruffy until he made his
 appearance. I laughed like a big dog...


... "Please, don't thump the Book of G'Quan. It's disrespectful." - G'Kar
--- RA/FD/FMail
 * Origin: The Eclectic Fox -- Memphis TN  (901)327-1008 (1:123/10)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 343 of 441
 From : Brandon Wolgast                     1:363/281       .óá 13 .þë 96 14:54
 To   : All
 Subj : Asimov book order?
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE/32 1.2
I just started reading Isaac Asimov's novels and to be frank, need some help
in what order to read them all.  I am not referring to ALL his novels but the
ones including "Foundation" and his Robot novels, the ones that form the
"future history."

I posted a message in another echo about one of the Foundation novels that I
don't even know if it's even OUT (I'll get to that question in a second) and
they helped me, but I'll ask it here again in hopes of just getting more info
on it, and the fact that I still don't totally know the answer.

Long ago, (WAY back in the 9th grade) I read about 1/3 of "Foundation" but
never finished it.  I recently started (in the past two years) reading all
sorts of sci-fi books, such as the Dune novels and others, and I remembered
"Foundation" so I went to a store to buy it and behold, almost 4 or 5 other
Foundation books.  So I got them all.. or what I thought was all.  I had a
total of six of them and according to the books themselves that was all, but
I was shocked to discover a seventh, "Foundation and Earth."

Although I have had them for over 3 months or so I just recently started
reading the first one, "Prelude to Foundation."  Now, that was of course
written after some of the others but I am reading them in order of their
"history" not publication order.  So, I flip to the inside flap and it says:

DON'T MISS ANY OF THE UNFORGETTABLE BOOKS IN ISAAC ASIMOV'S FOUNDATION SERIES:

PRELUDE TO FOUNDATION
FOUNDATION
FOUNDATION AND EMPIRE
SECOND FOUNDATION
FOUNDATION'S EDGE

I also have "Forward the Foundation" which I take it was written last and I
have placed that as the final book in the series.  On it's inside cover it
says the same thing except after "Foundation's Edge" is of course "Forward
the Foundation."  So I believe I was set...

I then read the author's note in "Prelude to Foundation" and there it was,
at the end.  He gave the order to read the novels in and listed was
"Foundation and Earth," it comes after Foundation's Edge.  However at that
time "Forward the Foundation" had not yet been written, so it was of course
not listed.  He gave it's publication date as 1983.  I then looked back at
"Forward the Foundation" to make sure that "Foundation and Earth" came
before "Forward the Foundation" and not after, but on the inside cover I was
shocked to realize it was not even listed as a Foundation novel.  They then
give the history of all his books that have been published, and there is
"Foundation and Earth," but this time for some unknown reason I don't under-
stand, it's publication date in that book is 1986, three years later.

So, I'm stuck.  I know I am not going to even get to reading it for at least
two months, but it's better to know now than right when I get to it and have
to find out all my answers.  So, my question on this subject is: Does
"Foundation and Earth" even exist?  I cannot find it at *ANY* (I mean that
when I say it, I have been everywhere) local book store.  And not on a
single Foundation book is it listed as part of the series.  Except of course
in "Prelude to Foundation" but that is in the authors notes and it says it's
the SIXTH Foundation novel, and again it is listed in "Forward the Foundation,"
yet in both cases, the publication dates are three years apart for it.  Was
the book perhaps discontinued?  Not released perhaps?  Or does it exist and
I am just having one hell of a time finding it?

Now, if it does exist, I am just making sure, is THIS the order I should read
the novels in:

Prelude to Foundation
Foundation
Foundation and Empire
Second Foundation
Foundatin's Edge
Foundation and Earth
Forward the Foundation

If anyone can give me ANY help with this I would appreciate it beyond words.
Like I said, I know I am not even close to reading it yet if it' sout there
but I would like to get it now and just have it for when I get to it I am
able to read it.


Now, my second question.  I knew before he died he was trying to tie his
Robot, Empire, and Foundation novels together, which is one of the reasons why
some of those books (Including "Foundation and Earth" I believe was written).
Since I have already started the Foundation books I am not going to stop, and
start at the beginning of the other novels to read them all in order.
However, after I do get done with all the Foundation novels I am planning
on going back and reading all the REST o them in order, then when I'm done
I'll just kinda "plug" in my memory of the Foundation books so I get the
entire picture.  In the authors notes in "Prelude to Foundation" he gives a
list of the order all the books should be read, however since I know others
have been written since he gave his list I would just like to know what order
I should read them all in?  Here is the list he gave, I would apprecate any
input from anyone who has read them all, or almost all, or even just knows
the correct order in which to read them.

The Complete Robot*
Robot Dreams
The Caves of Steel
The Naked Sun
The Robots of Dawn
Robots and Empire
The Currents of Space
The Stars, Like Dust
Pebble in the Sky
Prelude to Foundation
Foundation
Foundation and Empire
Second Foundation
Foundation's Edge
Foundation and Earth

Now, as I said above I placed "Forward the Foundation" after "Foundation and
Earth." Is that correct?

The * up there. In his notes he says that "The Complete Robot" includes all
his short stories in his "I, Robot" book.  Why the title change? On that
matter, I have never seen "The Complete Robot" but I have seen "I, Robot"
everywhere. Are they the same?

The rest of the books up there, with exception to "Foundation and Earth" I
have seen at stores, but I have also seen some more that are not up there and
I would have no idea what order to place them in.  So if anyone has a list
of the complete order of all his books and could help me out that would be
great.

Thanks for any and all help with this.

Brandon

***
 * OLX 2.1 * "Only Imperial Stormtroopers are so precise." - Obi-Wan

--- Use the FORCE!!!
 * Origin: Feduberator * STAR WARS Support * (407)381-2798 (1:363/281)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 344 of 441
 From : Ken Mayes                           1:393/7         .óá 13 .þë 96 15:42
 To   : Glenn Shaheen
 Subj : Re: Put up or shut up.
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On Tue  9-Jul-1996  7:45p, Glenn Shaheen said to Peter Mcneill:

GS> PM>Of course it's smooth, there is almost nil friction in space.

GS>         The smoothness is far too smooth. Regardless of how much
GS> friction there is in space, the ships and stations would be constructed
GS> from more than one piece.


        There is no such thing as 'far too smooth' when talking about movement
through a vacuum. You're either moving...or you aren't. There is almost nil
friction in space so once you are moving you will continue to
move...SMOOTHLY...until something stops you.

        And as far as ships being built from more than one piece, of course they
would be. That only makes sense. When I design 3-D models in my ray-tracing
programs they too are made from more than one piece. When I build a model kit
(granted not on the same level as proffessional FX models, they too are built
from more than piece. When NASA builds a real shuttle it is made of more than
one piece. I don't understand your argument there.


        In fact, in real life photography there are subtle imperfections that
creep in on film that computer animaters have worked hard to duplicate just to
maintain that 'shot on film' look. One that pops into mind is the lens flare
effect when a camera is pointed at a bright light. Light shines in through the
camera lens and reflects off the shutter aperature creating either a series of
round or octogonal flares. This is a reality that is inescapable when shooting
with film. Computer software designers saw that the early versions of their
programs that did not include the lens flare effects failed to convince many
people who simply were used to seeing that imperfection. So they started
including it. The result is that instead of giving the viewer a 'you are there'
perspective, they distanced it with a 'our camera was there' perspective.



--- CNet/3
 * Origin: The Bard's Tavern Denton, TX (817)243-5110 USR 28.8   (1:393/7)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 345 of 441
 From : Bob Klahn                           1:234/2         .óá 13 .þë 96 12:49
 To   : Frank Glover
 Subj : MINBARI AND B5
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 FG>
BK>>   LR>  When we finally contact an alien race I sure hope they know
BK>>  what to
BK>>   LR>  do... >:[
BK>>
BK>>   Then again, maybe we just decide that first contact teams are
BK>>  expendable.
 FG>
 FG>    "And by their red shirts shall ye know them..."

 Excellent.

Bob Klahn

... The few, the proud, the redshirted expendables.
 * Silver Xpress V4.02B03 RB10275

--- FLAME v1.1
 * Origin: Telnet toltbbs.com or call 313-854-6001, Boardwatch #55 (1:234/2)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 346 of 441
 From : Bob Klahn                           1:234/2         .óá 13 .þë 96 12:49
 To   : Kay Shapero
 Subj : CANCELLED
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 KS> On <Jul 08 22:00>, Frank Glover (1:2613/477) wrote to Bob Klahn:

 FG>>   Which reminds me of a lament of Chakotay's, from the first
 FG>>ST:Voyager season: (to Tuvok) "You were working for her
 FG>>(Janeway), Seska was working for the Cardassians...was anyone in
 FG>>the Maquis working for me??"
 FG>>

 KS> Which reminds *me* of an old Playboy cartoon where the feds burst into
 KS> the room full of nefarious plotters, and all present hold up badges.
 KS> "You mean we're *all* agents?!"

 Fact: Retired LT. Colonel Anthony Herbert, in his book, "Soldier", told
 the story of his duty with the army reserve in the area around Ft.
 Leavanworth Ks, during the Viet Nam war. There was a large anti-war
 protest planned, with the local authorities predicting thousands of
 marchers. So they had about 5000 military police on standby, activated the
 regional command post, and had dozens of undercover agents out there to
 infiltrate the march. When the actual march took place there were about 20
 marchers. There were more undercover agents than actual marchers.

 Spoiler for an oldie.









 Fiction: That scene was played out in "Bill The Galactic Hero", when the
 underground plotters made their big move. You gotta read it. I believe the
 fiction was unrelated to the fact, but you never know.

Bob Klahn

... Just another roadkill on the Information Superhighway...
 * Silver Xpress V4.02B03 RB10275

--- FLAME v1.1
 * Origin: Telnet toltbbs.com or call 313-854-6001, Boardwatch #55 (1:234/2)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 347 of 441
 From : Bob Klahn                           1:234/2         .óá 13 .þë 96 12:49
 To   : Kay Shapero
 Subj : SITCOM STARS
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 KS> On <Jul 09 01:19>, Paul Worley (1:2601/515) wrote to Kay Shapero:

 PW>>I'm shocked!!! You don't remember him as the down and out, hobo
 PW>>father on Night Court???

 KS> I've never SEEN Night Court.  Thus I've no idea who was on it.

 You missed one of the funniest shows on TV. And you missed Brent Spiners
 appearances also.

Bob Klahn

... Standard deviation??  Just who is the standard deviant??
 * Silver Xpress V4.02B03 RB10275

--- FLAME v1.1
 * Origin: Telnet toltbbs.com or call 313-854-6001, Boardwatch #55 (1:234/2)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 348 of 441
 From : Bob Klahn                           1:234/2         .óá 13 .þë 96 12:49
 To   : Leman Russ
 Subj : BUT ABOUT MODELS...
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 LR>  The computer controlled a pair of UV lasers that traversed as fast as
 LR>  the CRT in your monitor, and wh the beams intersected the resin
 LR>  solidified. Then more resin was injected andthe process repeater.
 LR>  Voila! A perfect model of the deformed skull slowly arose from this

 You have given a more detailed description of the process I described. I
 know it existed, but didn't recall as many details.

 LR>  vat of honey-like resin. Amazing breakthru, and incredibly it wasn;t
 LR>  military in nature.

 Don't bet the farm that it didn't derive from something military.

Bob Klahn

... Do not open tag line; No user serviceable parts inside.
 * Silver Xpress V4.02B03 RB10275

--- FLAME v1.1
 * Origin: Telnet toltbbs.com or call 313-854-6001, Boardwatch #55 (1:234/2)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 349 of 441
 From : Bob Klahn                           1:234/2         .óá 13 .þë 96 12:49
 To   : Leman Russ
 Subj : MISSED SOME
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 LR> I may have missed some mail due to a fidonet failure, so if I didn;t
 LR> reply to something I'm not being rude, OK?

 Leman, Leman, Leman, do you have any idea how much it hurts to pass up an
 easy one like that?

Bob Klahn

... "Hardware"...The part you kick!
 * Silver Xpress V4.02B03 RB10275

--- FLAME v1.1
 * Origin: Telnet toltbbs.com or call 313-854-6001, Boardwatch #55 (1:234/2)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 350 of 441
 From : Bob Klahn                           1:234/2         .óá 13 .þë 96 12:50
 To   : Owen E. Oulton
 Subj : MINBARI AND B5
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 OE> I'm perfectly convinced that the Minbari (or at least Dukat and the
 OE> religious caste members of the Grey Council) knew exactly how the
 OE> Terrans would interpret

 OE> Sinclair's crippled fighter so that they could "discover" his Minbari
 OE> soul.  I suspect that Dukat had recieved one of those letters from
 OE> Valen, and that the entire Earth/Minbari war was stage managed.  I
 OE> don't think anything was left to

 That would require Valen planned the war that killed so many. That would
 require a great conspiracy. Which I would never rule out.

Bob Klahn

... Silah sahibine bile du"s_mandir.           Turkish Proverb.
 * Silver Xpress V4.02B03 RB10275

--- FLAME v1.1
 * Origin: Telnet toltbbs.com or call 313-854-6001, Boardwatch #55 (1:234/2)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 351 of 441
 From : Bob Klahn                           1:234/2         .óá 13 .þë 96 12:50
 To   : Todd Sullivan
 Subj : CANCELLED
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 BK>>  either. Let me think about it, somebody's got to be simply what he
 BK>>  appears.

 TS> Off the top of my head, it's the dead ones.  They look dead. :^)

 The ones who are dead may look dead, but don't count on the ones who look
 dead being dead.

Bob Klahn

... I've done it. I've discovered the secret of eternal youth. Merely combine t
 * Silver Xpress V4.02B03 RB10275

--- FLAME v1.1
 * Origin: Telnet toltbbs.com or call 313-854-6001, Boardwatch #55 (1:234/2)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 352 of 441
 From : Bob Klahn                           1:234/2         .óá 13 .þë 96 12:50
 To   : Glenn Shaheen
 Subj : CANCELLED
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
BK>> A: They were doing the same thing all along.
BK>> B: They would have lost a conventional war.

 GS>         They actually would have cleaned the USAs clocks in
 GS> conventional.

 Doubtful, the Soviet military has proven to be a lot less formidable than
 their numbers suggested.

BK>> C: They didn't want to get blown all to hell in a nuclear war.

  GS>         That's what I was getting at.

 Well, yeah, I figured that. Just thought there were a few other options.

BK>> GS>         Yes. With your logic the flying saucers from Plan 9 From Out
BK>> GS> Space look like the flying saucers from Independence Day.

BK>> Hey, that's a classic.

 GS>         Plan 9 is great. Not if you take it seriously, though.

 And if you ignore the fact that the star died in the middle of shooting,
 and wasn't replaced.

Bob Klahn

... .. ÷ÙÙ  Ú ¬ÖÀ ¬  $þx  .¯¯þÛ÷$  ÝÙÚr  þØþ$ág ¬÷....
 * Silver Xpress V4.02B03 RB10275

--- FLAME v1.1
 * Origin: Telnet toltbbs.com or call 313-854-6001, Boardwatch #55 (1:234/2)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 353 of 441
 From : Bob Klahn                           1:234/2         .óá 13 .þë 96 12:50
 To   : Darre Luallen
 Subj : SCHEDULING SF SHOWS
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 DL>> are in some stupid ratings war.  From SF to sitcoms even to
 DL>> pro-wrestling, the suits are under the mistaken impression that we
 DL>> viewers are going to be loyal to ONE station.  That is so stupid.
 DL>   [...]
 DL>> ad money comes from.  The suits are so blind, it's stupid.

 Reminds me of the "Burger Wars", when Burger King and McDonald's were
 going at it hot and heavy, going at each other with thinly disguised
 identification. The upshot was, both chains made more money.

Bob Klahn

... A Magick Book that sticks with you:  The VELCRONOMICON
 * Silver Xpress V4.02B03 RB10275

--- FLAME v1.1
 * Origin: Telnet toltbbs.com or call 313-854-6001, Boardwatch #55 (1:234/2)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 354 of 441
 From : Glenn Misztal                       3:713/910       .îí 01 .þë 96 19:34
 To   : Brion Lienhart
 Subj : PINKY AND THE BRAIN
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 BL> On Tue Jun 11, Vicki Nichols said to Mark Jones:
 TS> I don't see how this belongs in this echo.

MJ>   What, you don't think gene-spliced lab mice plotting to
MJ> overthrow the earth count as science fiction?  What about
MJ> the vast array of super-scientific (not to mention
MJ> PSEUDO-scientific) schemes Brain employs in his relentless
MJ> quest for world domination?

 -VN>     And let's not forget the role of the white mice in
 BL> commissioning
 -VN>the creation of the Earth, as outlined in "The Hitchhiker's
 BL> Guide to
 -VN>the Galaxy."

 BL> They just had my favorite episode of P&TB last sunday, the one
 BL> where they're in Acmeshita Labs, and Brain turns Pinky into
 BL> Pinkzilla, so Brain can save the city from Pinkzilla.
 BL> "Haloo, I'm on a rampage. Narf."



Oh, yeah! Ya gotta love ya Pinky and The Brain!
My fav one is with the Dragon's Lair and Brain is about to become the ruler of
the world and Pinky turns him into the ("Ummm...the big coconut, the big
banana?") The Big cheese!

--- Ezycom V1.20 03fa007d
 * Origin: Gallifrey, for Dr Who/Trek/SF <24Hr>OZ 02-820-7624 (3:713/910)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 355 of 441
 From : Nicolai Shapero                     1:102/524       .óá 13 .þë 96 10:05
 To   : Henry Triplett
 Subj : CGI vs Models
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Jul 11 07:45>, Henry Triplett (1:106/564) wrote to NICOLAI SHAPERO:

 HT>I saw your thoughts on the Kromags in "Sliders" awhile back.
 HT>They echoed
 HT>mine pretty well.  If Sliders comes back, I'm willing to bet that
 HT>the
 HT>Kromags show up there almost as often as the Kazon show up on
 HT>ST:Voyager.
 HT>Two shows, both with a premise that should really allow for some
 HT>great SF
 HT>storytelling, hamstrung by an apparent lack of visionaries on
 HT>either pro-
 HT>duction team.

They showed a new episode last night.  And it was one of the weirdest ones to
date.  And NO KROMAGS.  Maybe if we all think real hard, we'll decide that we
just IMAGINED that episode.  And maybe if we're all real lucky, the writers will
take the same tack...

-- Nicolai Shapero, the Mad Russian Sysop of StormGate Aerie

--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 356 of 441
 From : Kay Shapero                         1:102/524       .óá 13 .þë 96 12:30
 To   : Kevin van Houten
 Subj : Sitcom stars
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Jul 10 22:39>, Kevin van Houten (1:124/7012.1701) wrote to Kay Shapero:

 KS>>> what sitcom did Brent Spiner act in?
 Kv>> recurring 'hick' character on Night Court.
 KS> before or during his ST career?

 Kv>It was at least during.  Was Night Court on before 87?

I've no idea - I've never seen Night Court.  I'd barely heard the name until it
was mentioned in here.

 KS> Sounds like an interesting change of pace for the actor. :->

 Kv>I dunno.  It seemed like every other week or so on TNG that Data
 Kv>was 'discovering' some new emotion or another.  :)

I was just remembering when Leonard Nimoy was playing Spock in the original Trek
series, and it seemed that everything else you saw him on he was making up for
lost time by grinning like mad.

--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 357 of 441
 From : Kay Shapero                         1:102/524       .óá 13 .þë 96 12:32
 To   : Henry Triplett
 Subj : CGI vs Models
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Jul 11 07:32>, Henry Triplett (1:106/564) wrote to DAVID LITTLE:

 DL> You can have "Happy Accidents" with models that cannot be
 HT>
 HT>What are "Happy Accidents?"  And if they achieve desireable FX
 HT>results, why can't they be programmed?

Presumably you can if he's talking about the way design improves during
construction.  You can also have unhappy accidents with models - the real reason
the Romulans in the original Star Trek changed to using Klingon style warships
was that someone broke the original Romulan Warbird model and it was too
expensive to build another one...

--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 358 of 441
 From : Henry Triplett                      1:106/564       .cê 14 .þë 96 13:38
 To   : GLENN SHAHEEN
 Subj : CGI vs Models
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

-=> Quoting Glenn Shaheen to Henry Triplett <=-

 GS> You people talking about me behind my back <tut tut>. To me,

Actually, since it's an open forum, we're saying this to your face. <g>

 GS> CGI just looks too much like cartoons. I've seen space videos,
 GS> although I wasn't around at the original Moon landing.

Cartoons, eh.  And you say you've seen video shot in space?  Like I told
Kay, you've got your blinders on.  I give up, anyone else care to try?

Henry


... Another fine Good Intentions Paving Co. project!

___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20 [NR]
--- GEcho 1.00
 * Origin: Eat Flaming Death    Houston Texas    713-447-1927 (1:106/564)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 359 of 441
 From : Leman Russ                          1:2250/7        .óá 13 .þë 96 05:08
 To   : Frank Glover
 Subj : Re: CANCELLED
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 You know, in a way computers are taking people back in time, in social terms.

 Before TV and mass publishing, people gathered together and "interacted" for
entertainment. That's why bars in england were called "Pubs", short for public
rooms. People would talk, listen, sing, tell stories, do plays, etc.

 Then broadcast and mass publications, combined with increased literacy, lead to
less socialization and voluntary isolation.

 Now the computer brings us back to people chatting for recreation. Full circle,
anyone?

>:[

--- DLG Pro v1.0/DLGMail
 * Origin: Sage's Tower - Amiga - (618) 259-1844 (1:2250/7)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 360 of 441
 From : Leman Russ                          1:2250/7        .óá 13 .þë 96 05:11
 To   : Todd Sullivan
 Subj : Re: MINBARI AND B5
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 TS> Wrong on both counts.  The "weapon" was a scanning device and
 TS> storage coding method all in one.  V'ger didn't react; it was
 TS> obvious that nothing anyone did or could have done would have harmed
 TS> it.

 I think V'ger recognized the klingon torpedoes as weapons, and neutralized
them, amnd yes, I read the novel so I know Vger reduced its targets to stored
data, but it still used the process as aweapon. It tried to contact enterprise
and when she failed to reply Vger took her as a hostile and tried to convert it
to data, effectively destroying it as far as anyone else would be concerned.

 >:[

--- DLG Pro v1.0/DLGMail
 * Origin: Sage's Tower - Amiga - (618) 259-1844 (1:2250/7)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 361 of 441
 From : Leman Russ                          1:2250/7        .óá 13 .þë 96 05:16
 To   : Henry Triplett
 Subj : Re: Japanese SF
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 Try checking out blockbuster video stores, my local one has some anime, like
A-ko, Appleseed, Gall force, etc.

>:[

--- DLG Pro v1.0/DLGMail
 * Origin: Sage's Tower - Amiga - (618) 259-1844 (1:2250/7)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 362 of 441
 From : Michael Harper                      1:123/10        .cê 14 .þë 96 10:43
 To   : Pavel Viaznikov
 Subj : B5 Renewed
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
While sipping a dry martini, Pavel Viaznikov told Michael Harper about
B5 Renewed...

 PV> - BTW, not only a car but also a very good  (once) jet fighter...

 Indeed so. Saab's aircraft were among the finest in the world; still
 are some of the most beautiful. Wasn't the Viggen the one with the
 flattened-oval cross-section and the big delta wing?

  Viaznikov. Hm. Trying to figure out where you're posting from. Kiev?
  St. Petersburg? Anyway, greetings from Memphis, my friend.


... "Bugger!  Now I've got to wait for one of them to wake up!" - Marcus
--- RA/FD/FMail
 * Origin: The Eclectic Fox -- Memphis TN  (901)327-1008 (1:123/10)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 363 of 441
 From : Kevin van Houten                    1:124/7012.1701 .cê 14 .þë 96 19:16
 To   : Kay Shapero
 Subj : Sitcom stars
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.MOOD: Ok...for a Klingon }}:-I

 KS> I've never seen Night Court. I'd barely heard
 KS> the name until it was mentioned in here.

Your basic sitcom.  Harry Anderson (magician/comic) played a
judge in a "night court" and it had a zany cast of characters.

 KS> I was just remembering when Leonard Nimoy was playing Spock in
 KS> the original Trek series, and it seemed that everything else you
 KS> saw him on he was making up for lost time by grinning like mad.

Except for the UFO/Bermuda Triangle/etc show he did for a few years.
I've found it interesting to find Trek (& other) actors in parts that
were done *before* they got famous.  DeForrest Kelly in hundreds of
episodes of TV westerns...Jack Nicolsen (sp?) in Roger Corman's
"Little Shop of Horrors."  Things like that.
--- Terminate 4.00
 * Origin: Rawhide Creek Brewpub, Texas Sector, TEROK NOR (1:124/7012.1701)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 364 of 441
 From : Frank Swarbrick                     1:104/825       .åò 11 .þë 96 21:28
 To   : Michael Harper
 Subj : B5 Renewed
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12  92-0022
On 07-08-96  07:31, shipwrecked and comatose, Michael Harper said:

 MH> Awhile back, we had a near-brush with television history. Two writers
 MH> working for the same studio on different shows for different networks
 MH> met, got started talking, and professed an admiration for each
 MH> other's work. They came up with the notion of a two-part episode, that
 MH> would begin on one show and _cross networks_ to end on the other show.
 MH> If done, the response would have been phenomenal. The networks quashed
 MH> it. The wrote the shows anyway, changing what they had to in order to
 MH> keep from pissing off their employers. But those of us who follow such
 MH> things knew, and were sorely disappointed...

 MH> Their names were Chris Carter and David Kelley, and the shows were
 MH> _X-Files_ and _Picket Fences_. Mudler and Scully would have gone to
 MH> Rome, Wisconsin chasing after an alien-DNA lead. CBS and Fox said no,
 MH> no way.

Actually, only CBS said no.  As far as I remember, FOX was ok with
it.  Of course, I don't think the X-Files episode was even changed in
any way.  Mulder was to be on PF, but I don't think any PF people
were scheduled to be on XF.  (Of course, I may be wrong.)

        Frank

... No one can hear when you're Screaming in Digital!
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12
 * Origin: The Bailey Information Exchange BBS, 28.8k v.fc  (1:104/825.0)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 365 of 441
 From : Jeff Hancock                        1:3600/7        .óá 13 .þë 96 12:54
 To   : Frank Glover
 Subj : CANCELLED
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

FG>   I've always had the gut feeling that mccoy's distaste for the
FG>transporter is that, early in his career, he had to deal with (or
FG>even see happen, as in ST:TMP) someone who was scrambled in an

That would make a lot of sense... and it must have affected him enough
so that he would never want to talk directly about it.

FG>if Starfleet in his era made greater use of the Enterprise-D
FG>force-field shuttle bay doors, he'd probably be as uncomfortable with

The thing is, they are more careful where those are concerned.  Hadn't
you noticed the alarms that go off when they open the physical bay doors
and the only protection is the force field?  I don't remember if they
tended to get everyone out of the shuttle bay or not before doing that,
but it would be only sensible.

FG>I recall similar technology in Niven's Known Space stories, but they
FG>weren't regularly employed on warships, or even minor
FG>power-disrupting damage could leave you with a lungful of vacuum.

I don't remember it specifically in those stories... but in Trek they
seem to use it for securing hull breeches and to avoid the delays in
purging and restoring the air in the shuttle bay.  It's not the sole
line of protection from the lack of elements. ;)

-=-
 * Crazy-J * "People who make Confucius joke speak bad English."

--- SLMAIL v3.5C  (#1540)
 * Origin: Robotech  -=-Fansubbed anime available upon request-=- (1:3600/7)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 366 of 441
 From : Jeff Hancock                        1:3600/7        .óá 13 .þë 96 22:41
 To   : Henry Triplett
 Subj : Japanese SF
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

HT>Are the Media Play stores still open in your area?  In the past
HT>month, I've noticed that four of their stores in the Houston area
HT>have closed.  I haven't made it to the far west end of town to see if

Eeek.  I certainly HOPE so, at forty miles away they're still the
closest (and cheapest) source I have!  They were still open last time I
was there a couple of weeks ago....

HT>the others are still in business.

I don't know exactly how large an area you're talking about by "the
Houston area", east end only or not, but it sounds like it could be
oversaturation of the market.  There are no open stores left in your
area?

They have a good SF selection too, although usually when I get to go all
my money gets spent on the anime. ;)
-=-
 * Crazy-J * U.S. Mint workers on strike-they want to make less money.

--- SLMAIL v3.5C  (#1540)
 * Origin: Robotech  -=-Fansubbed anime available upon request-=- (1:3600/7)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 367 of 441
 From : Owen E. Oulton                      1:243/45        .cê 14 .þë 96 00:42
 To   : Nicolai Shapero
 Subj : MINBARI AND B5
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 OE>Minbari soul.  I suspect that Dukat had recieved one of those
 OE>letters from Valen, and that the entire Earth/Minbari war was
 OE>stage managed.  I don't think anything was left to chance.

 NS> As Sinclair said to Sheriden in WAR WITHOUT END, "there
 NS> are no coincidences".

Darn tootin'.  Wonder how long it'll take Sheridan and co. to figure it out...

CFN, O

--- Maximus 2.01wb
 * Origin: Pandora's Box, Ottawa, Ont. 613-829-1209 (1:243/45)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 368 of 441
 From : Owen E. Oulton                      1:243/45        .cê 14 .þë 96 01:08
 To   : Jeff Hancock
 Subj : Transporting
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 JH> Transporting in the Star Trek style would seem to be the ultimate form
 JH> of nudity.  Just your atoms streaming through the cosmos.  Not even bare
 JH> skin, but bare *everything*.  And if you happen to be religious, you
 JH> just HAVE to wonder about your "soul", and if some part of you really
 JH> dies every time you get taken apart and put together again.

Check out James Blish's Trek novel Spock Must Die.  It was written right after
the series ended, so Blish was free to do things which do not mesh with later
iterations of Trek, making it an alternate universe "what if" sort of story, but
the first chapter has Spock and McCoy debating this exact topic.

CFN, O

--- Maximus 2.01wb
 * Origin: Pandora's Box, Ottawa, Ont. 613-829-1209 (1:243/45)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 369 of 441
 From : Owen E. Oulton                      1:243/45        .cê 14 .þë 96 01:10
 To   : Bob Klahn
 Subj : BUT ABOUT MODELS...
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

BK> I have read in some tech magazines about a system that uses a liquid
BK> plastic. The computer controls a pair of lasers that zero in on the desired
BK> point and the laser beams cause the plastic to solidify at that point. You
BK> program it to solidify the plastic in the shape of the product you want.

I've seen the thing in action, at a trade show some years ago.  Quite nifty.

CFN, O

--- Maximus 2.01wb
 * Origin: Pandora's Box, Ottawa, Ont. 613-829-1209 (1:243/45)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 370 of 441
 From : Owen E. Oulton                      1:243/45        .cê 14 .þë 96 01:13
 To   : Bob Klahn
 Subj : CANCELLED
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 BK>  The objective in a war is to defeat the enemy.

Unless, of course, you're the Duchy of Grand Fenwick...  :-)

CFN, O

--- Maximus 2.01wb
 * Origin: Pandora's Box, Ottawa, Ont. 613-829-1209 (1:243/45)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 371 of 441
 From : Todd Sullivan                       1:202/720.3     .óá 13 .þë 96 17:16
 To   : Kay Shapero
 Subj : B5 Renewed
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Reports from the Interior indicate that Kay Shapero leaked the following to
Darre LuAllen, re: B5 Renewed

 KS> You credit it to J. Michael Straczynski.  Everything in that post after
 KS> the line "I agree with him.:" was a quote of his message.

Same here, doubled and redoubled.

 KS> What I find interesting is that a lot of us "Original Trekkers" (well,
 KS> sorta - I didn't get into the fandom until the early '70s so wasn't
 KS> around for Bjo's letter writing campaign) are big B5 fans.  The ones
 KS> who want to fight about it appear to have come in later.

They don't know how lucky they were.  All us "old fogies" had to deal with Lost
in Space, Voyage..Bottom..Sea and other dreck that was truly awful.

The latter was a lot worse, as with the sinking ice bergs and chasing critters
around with the reactor's fuel rods.  And it was an incredibly small reactor,
too, powering a ship twice the length of a Trident boomer...

Todd Sullivan

... "I don't think Betty Ford takes vampires." --Nick Knight

-*- ASTG 1.9

--- Spot 1.3a Unregistered
 * Origin: Todd's Spot in the Continuum (1:202/720.3)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 372 of 441
 From : Leman Russ                          1:2250/7        .cê 14 .þë 96 04:21
 To   : Boris Cduke
 Subj : Re: Japanese SF
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 If you liked Akira, give "Ghost inthe shell" a try, then chat about it if I'm
still here.

>;[

--- DLG Pro v1.0/DLGMail
 * Origin: Sage's Tower - Amiga - (618) 259-1844 (1:2250/7)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 373 of 441
 From : Kay Shapero                         1:102/524       .cê 14 .þë 96 14:05
 To   : Bob Klahn
 Subj : By Force OF Arms
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Jul 12 21:43>, Bob Klahn (1:234/2) wrote to Kay Shapero:

 KS> Excuse me, gentlemen.... A war is a lot of people shooting at each
 KS> other to achieve an objective.  When one side achieves that objective,

  KS> whatever the heck it happens to be, that side has "won".  Since the

 BK> The objective in a war is to defeat the enemy.

The objective in a war is to achieve what you want, despite whatever the other
guy throws at you.  Politics achieved by force of arms.

 BK> If you want a war where both sides win, that implies both sides
 BK>are morally equal.

Usually in a war both sides *are* morally equal.  One side has something the
other side wants so the latter goes after it.  Or there's something both sides
happen to want and they go after each other for it.  Looked at objectively, war
is rarely a matter of the good guys vs the bad guys.  Tell me - are the Serbs or
the Croats the "good guys"?  Which side of the various segments of the Hundred
Years War were the good guys?  In Europe, the provinces of Alsace and Lorraine
have a history of being forcibly traded between France and Germany.  In any of
the many wars this has involved, is the side attempting to steal these provinces
the "bad guys", or are the "bad guys" the ones that are trying to keep these
provinces from being liberated by the other side?

Forget what you see in fiction - real war is almost never a matter of good guys
vs bad guys though WWII came close.  Always remembering that it's the winners
who write the history books.

--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 374 of 441
 From : Kay Shapero                         1:102/524       .cê 14 .þë 96 14:07
 To   : Bob Klahn
 Subj : B5 TECH
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Jul 12 21:43>, Bob Klahn (1:234/2) wrote to Kay Shapero:

 BK> The proper way to make first contact is to do so with a small,
 BK>and unarmed group. If the other guy sends a fleet, you send one
 BK>ship anyway. The first contact group is totally expendable.

You got it!

Assuming, of course, that you have enough indication of the other group's
existance before you bump into them, as happened in the B5 scenario.  I suspect
most first contacts will be unexpected encounters between the unprepared who
will muddle through as best they can...

--- msged 2.06
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Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 375 of 441
 From : Kay Shapero                         1:102/524       .cê 14 .þë 96 14:09
 To   : Bob Klahn
 Subj : CANCELLED
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Jul 12 21:43>, Bob Klahn (1:234/2) wrote to Nicolai Shapero:

 BK> I was just coming off third shift in the comm shop at Hickam
 BK>AFB, Hawaii. Someone had a B&W portable set up in the shop, and we
 BK>all sat there and watched that step.

 BK> Ah yes, I remember it well.

I was in college, though home for the summer and watched it on the small B&W
that was the family TV at the time.  I remember going outside afterwards and
looking up at the moon for awhile.

--- msged 2.06
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Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 376 of 441
 From : Kay Shapero                         1:102/524       .cê 14 .þë 96 14:11
 To   : Henry Triplett
 Subj : CGI vs Models
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Jul 12 11:11>, Henry Triplett (1:106/564) wrote to KAY SHAPERO:

 HT>Even in those cases, the prop will probably end up as a stand-in
 HT>for the
 HT>item(s) that the FX wizards will put in.  I remember seeing a

Depends.  Something like a light-saber or a ray gun, certainly, but sometimes
it's just plain CHEAPER to build a model of a small solid object than to CGI it
in.  You don't even have to put in all that much detail most of the time - a
prop just has to look good on film or TV.  To the naked eye, they frequently
look pretty sketchy (I've got a ST:TOS hand phaser made by a friend {the one
shaped sorta like a bar of soap} that looks better than a number of the ones
actually used on the show.)

--- msged 2.06
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Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 377 of 441
 From : Nicolai Shapero                     1:102/524       .cê 14 .þë 96 14:36
 To   : Leman Russ
 Subj : Re: Japanese SF
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Jul 11 03:48>, Leman Russ (1:2250/7) wrote to Nicolai Shapero:

 LR> Well, have you ever been to a blockbuster video store? I was
 LR>this very day, and they had a decent section of japanamie like

I've been to 20/20 (a local equivalent, with a better selection of anime than
Blockbuster -- at least locally).  So?  My point was, and it stands, that there
isn't as much Japanese SF/Anime as there is US SF/Live action to discuss.

-- Nicolai Shapero, the Mad Russian Sysop of StormGate Aerie

--- msged 2.06
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Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 378 of 441
 From : Nicolai Shapero                     1:102/524       .cê 14 .þë 96 14:41
 To   : Leman Russ
 Subj : Re: MINBARI AND B5
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Jul 12 00:17>, Leman Russ (1:2250/7) wrote to Owen E. Oulton:

 LR> Forthat matter, how did dukat buy it and anyone on his ship
 LR>survive if it was hit hard enough, it should have opened to vacc
 LR>and that's it for Delenn and everyone else.

The weapons used in B5 are such that one can easily imagine survivors on board a
gutted ship.  Not like ST or any of a number of other SF "universes" where are
there ARE no survivors to speak of in ship-to-ship actions.

-- Nicolai Shapero, the Mad Russian Sysop of StormGate Aerie


--- msged 2.06
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Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 379 of 441
 From : Nicolai Shapero                     1:102/524       .cê 14 .þë 96 14:42
 To   : Leman Russ
 Subj : The only problem with cgi
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Jul 12 04:00>, Leman Russ (1:2250/7) wrote to All:

 LR> I've left several messages extolling the virtue of CGI, and I've
 LR>made it clear that I think CGI is definately the way of the
 LR>future, but in all fairness I must admit there is one area where
 LR>cgi still lags far behind current models and effects technology:
 LR>Explosions.

The key word is "yet".  And for explosions, there's always the "lets get some
pyrotech experts together and do it for REAL...then we mat in the models/cgi
toys..."

-- Nicolai Shapero, the Mad Russian Sysop of StormGate Aerie

--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 380 of 441
 From : Nicolai Shapero                     1:102/524       .cê 14 .þë 96 14:44
 To   : Boris CDuke
 Subj : Japanese SF
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Jul 12 21:59>, Boris CDuke (2:463/2.22) wrote to Jeff Hancock:

 BC>Good eating Jeff!

 FG>> Although there are Anime-specific echoes, it *does* get discussed
 FG>> here from time to time. Jump in with something.

 JH> Okay, what SF anime have you seen and what would you recommend?

 BC>The best japanimation is, imho, AKIRA.

 JH>  + Origin: Robotech þ Lake City's Music*Demo BBS þ [904] 758*9477
 JH> (1:3600/7)

 BC>    Þßßß best witches               [MIDI Music Team]
 BC>    ÞÝßÛ                            Kiev, Ukraine
 BC>    ÞÝÛÛ Boris                      boris@sfclub.freenet.kiev.ua

 BC> * Origin: Imagineering (2:463/2.22)

A Message that includes only ONE line of original statement, excessive quoting
and a three line signature INCLUDING IBM GRAPHICS CHARACTERS.  That's several
violations of this conference rules all at the same time.

Please don't do this again.

-- Nicolai Shapero, Moderator of the SFFAN echo


--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 381 of 441
 From : Nicolai Shapero                     1:102/524       .cê 14 .þë 96 14:46
 To   : Owen E. Oulton
 Subj : Re: but about models...
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Jul 13 03:31>, Owen E. Oulton (1:243/45) wrote to Kay Shapero:

 OE>of that layer, and so on.  It takes bloody forever, and the model
 OE>is quite rough.

You're talking about older versions of the equipment.  As of a year ago, the
product of the "solid printers" was good enough for use as molds for final
prototype runs in medical equipment (I know about this from direct experience --
we used them at my last job).

-- Nicolai Shapero, the Mad Russian Sysop of StormGate Aerie

--- msged 2.06
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Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 382 of 441
 From : Kay Shapero                         1:102/524       .cê 14 .þë 96 18:35
 To   : Nicolai Shapero
 Subj : The only problem with cgi
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Jul 14 14:42>, Nicolai Shapero (1:102/524) wrote to Leman Russ:

 NS>The key word is "yet".  And for explosions, there's always the
 NS>"lets get some pyrotech experts together and do it for
 NS>REAL...then we mat in the models/cgi toys..."

That's how they did it in the episode with the bomber.  For the scene when a
fireball comes boiling up the corridor after Londo, they built a nice long
miniature of the corridor, and mounted it vertically.  Then they pointed the
camera down the top of the miniature and touched off an explosion at the base.
They slowed down the result and matted in Londo diving for the elevator.  I
gather a fun time was had by all - special effects guys just love blowing things
up... :->

--- msged 2.06
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Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 383 of 441
 From : Bob Klahn                           1:234/2         .cê 14 .þë 96 13:14
 To   : Todd Sullivan
 Subj : CANCELLED
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 TS> What always annoyed the daylights out of me was how PC Trek had become,
 TS> as well as hiding behind the PD everytime something requiring ethics
 TS> and integrity reared its ugly head.

 What do personal computers have to do with the ethics problems on trek?

 TS> No wonder Worf's brother went native.

 You got this one right.

Bob Klahn

... My reality check just bounced.
 * Silver Xpress V4.02B03 RB10275

--- FLAME v1.1
 * Origin: Telnet toltbbs.com or call 313-854-6001, Boardwatch #55 (1:234/2)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 384 of 441
 From : Bob Klahn                           1:234/2         .cê 14 .þë 96 13:14
 To   : Kay Shapero
 Subj : CANCELLED
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 KS> On <Jul 08 21:55>, Glenn Shaheen (1:3600/7) wrote to Bob Klahn:

 GS>>        It's my opinion that people as a whole are getting more
 GS>>and more stupid as we invent more machines to think for them.

 KS> There are those who maintain that the total intelligence of the world
 KS> is a constant, and point out that the population is increasing...

 Ok, that is pretty good.

 KS> I think it's just the effect of a) better communication so we all hear
 KS> about dumb things as soon as they happen and b) you increase the

 Also responsible for much of the fear of accidents/crime/etc.

 KS> population of the village but keep the same proportions you wind up
 KS> with a larger absolute number of village idiots.  And of course c) with

 Which gives the modern communications more incidents to report. Total
 number that is.

 KS> modern technology the same idiot who a couple of generations back would
 KS> have killed himself by gumming up the safety and causing a steam
 KS> explosion in the factory boiler room can now kill lots MORE people by
 KS> causing one in a nuclear power plant.  :(

 Actually, it is almost impossible for an idiot to blow up anything in a
 nuclear plant. In fact, you've gotta be pretty sharp to blow up a boiler
 in a factory any more. Modern technology has put in so many safties that
 idiot who would have killed himself generations ago, maybe taking a few
 others with, now survives to keep on making little mistakes all over the
 place. Before he would have blown up the boiler, now he just makes the
 safeties shut it down. Not the big disaster, but it nickles and dimes
 society for ever.

Bob Klahn

... (A)bort (F)ail (T)oss computer across room
 * Silver Xpress V4.02B03 RB10275

--- FLAME v1.1
 * Origin: Telnet toltbbs.com or call 313-854-6001, Boardwatch #55 (1:234/2)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 385 of 441
 From : Bob Klahn                           1:234/2         .cê 14 .þë 96 13:14
 To   : Kay Shapero
 Subj : JAPANESE SF
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 KS> Ah well - speaking of difficult languages MY ambition someday is to see
 KS> Cheyenne Autumn in the company of a fluent speaker of Navajo.  From
 KS> what I've been told from two separate sources (one was Tony Hillerman,
 KS> I don't recall who the other was now), the folks hired to play the
 KS> Indians were real Indians; only they were Navajo not Cheyenne, and
 KS> rather than being given specific lines were allowed to improvise their
 KS> own dialogue in their own language.  Needless to say, a lot of the
 KS> dialogue does not match the subtitles... :->  But, alas, since I know
 KS> *zip* from Dinee, this does me no good.

 This was standard procedure in many of the old African movies of the 30s,
 40s and 50s. There was one movie that had a native runner race into the
 village, supposedly from a long distance, and fall at the chief's feet
 and gasp out a message about some danger. The runner gave his message in
 the local language and the chief translated it for the European hero.

 That movie played for years and nobody paid it any real attention, till
 it played in a country where that language was spoken. When the runner
 gave his warning the whole audience broke down in laughter. It seems what
 the runner actually said was, "I'm not getting paid enough for this job."

Bob Klahn

... As if you could kill time without injuring eternity.   Thoreau
 * Silver Xpress V4.02B03 RB10275

--- FLAME v1.1
 * Origin: Telnet toltbbs.com or call 313-854-6001, Boardwatch #55 (1:234/2)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 386 of 441
 From : Bob Klahn                           1:234/2         .cê 14 .þë 96 13:14
 To   : David Little
 Subj : CGI VS MODELS
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 DL> -=< Henry Triplett used the Jedi Mind Trick on me!>=-

 DL>> You can have "Happy Accidents" with models that cannot be

 HT>> What are "Happy Accidents?"
 DL>
 DL>         A better sounding word for mistakes.<G> One of the artist that
 DL>         does shows for PBS, Bob Ross, uses that expression quite often.
 DL>         "We don't make mistakes, we have `Happy Accidents'!"

 Serendipity.

 HT>> And if they achieve desireable FX
 HT>> results,  why can't they be programmed?
 DL>
 DL>         The way the light hits the model unexpectedly, the way the
 DL>         engines fly off when the model explodes. I have yet to see a
 DL>         really cool and debris filled CGI explosion.

 More often than not the engines will fly off in such a way that they will
 have to reshoot, or touch up, the shot.


 HT>> ... Psst!  I heard David was socializing with Kai Winn!!

 DL>         Nowhere do the prophets say "NO hanky panky!"

 Tagline material!

 DL> ... "Henry, don't give in to hate - that leads to the dark side."

Bob Klahn

... Come over to the dark side, David, we have much better medical coverage.
 * Silver Xpress V4.02B03 RB10275

--- FLAME v1.1
 * Origin: Telnet toltbbs.com or call 313-854-6001, Boardwatch #55 (1:234/2)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 387 of 441
 From : Bob Klahn                           1:234/2         .cê 14 .þë 96 13:14
 To   : Leman Russ
 Subj : MINBARI AND B5
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 OEO>> Terrans would interpret it.  I don't think it's at all a
 OEO>> coincidence that Delenn, Dukat's hand-picked successor was there,
 OEO>> and also at the Battle of the Line, a and that she selected
 OEO>> Sinclair's crippled fighter so that they could "discover" his

 ...

 LR>  Not to be a flamjob, but I have a Liiiitle problem with that.
 LR>  Basically how could they be cerain that Delenn would not be killed if
 LR>  she was that close to Gul Dukat when he bought it? When heavy weapons
 LR>  start flying it n be a matter of luck who gets killed and who doesn't.


 Maybe Dukat was not supposed to be killed, maybe the plan was for some
 small ships to be destroyed, but they underestimated the capabilities of
 the Earth forces. The letter from Valen certainly would not have included
 all the possible details, and probably not the death of any particular
 individual no matter how important.

 LR>  Forthat matter, how did dukat buy it and anyone on his ship survive if
 LR>  it was hit hard enough, it should have opened to vacc and that's it
 LR>  for Delenn and everyone else.

 It may not have been that bad a hit. Perhaps he just happened to be in the
 line of some shrapenel. Or maybe an electrical discharge crossed where he
 was standing. Sometimes it's a matter of luck, if it's your time you get
 your duckat punched.

Bob Klahn

... All that work for one lousy pun.... Ok, it was worth it.
 * Silver Xpress V4.02B03 RB10275

--- FLAME v1.1
 * Origin: Telnet toltbbs.com or call 313-854-6001, Boardwatch #55 (1:234/2)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 388 of 441
 From : Mark Jones                          1:105/302.47    .òp 09 .þë 96 00:14
 To   : Bob Klahn
 Subj : THE SF CHANNEL
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On (06 Jul 96) Bob Klahn wrote to Mark Jones...

 BK>  MJ>   As long as the government is going to make paternalistic and
 BK>  MJ> unconstitutional demands, I'll cheer the tv industry on as they
 BK>  MJ> exploit loopholes like that one.  TV and radio are "the press" as
 BK>  MJ> surely as newspapers and magazines are, and should be free of
 BK>  MJ> government content control just as certainly.  (The notion that
 BK> the
 BK>
 BK>  TV and radio are far more entertainment media than news media. TV and
 BK>  radio themsleves are the means of communication, not the content.

  PLAYBOY is certainly more "entertainment" than news (at least
compared to Time or Newsweek), but it still gets first amendment
protection, doesn't it?
  It doesn't matter whether radio and tv are used for "serious"
journalism or purely for entertainment.  They are as much "the press"
as any newspaper or magazine (many of which would fail your Serious
Communication test anyhow).  And they deserve the same protection.
(And three federal judges agree with me; they struck down the
Communications Decency Act as an unwarranted and unconstitutional
infringement of the first amendment recently.)

 BK> Not at all true. The broadcast spectrum is severly limited, and
 BK> very competitive for space. The increase in technology has been
 BK> more than compensated for by the increase in demand for spectrum
 BK> space. Don't forget, the radio spectrum is international. Nobody
 BK> has yet come up with a way to keep radio waves from spilling over
 BK> national boundaries. Without government spectrum allotments radio
 BK> would become unusable. Rush Limbaugh's 50KW powerhouse would be
 BK> drowned out by the 1 watt wireless mike next door. Don't even try
 BK> to run two TV stations on the same channel too close together.
 BK> And a hundred miles is too close.

The amount of land is very limited, too.  And we deal with *that*
crisis by means of property rights.  Whoever owns the land gets to
decide how its used.  He can use it himself, sell it, or lease it to
someone else to use.

"Without government spectrum allotments...." we'd have used the
homesteading principle to establish property rights in particular
frequencies over particular areas.  That's what was HAPPENING until
the feds realized they were about to lose control of this valuable new
technology, and hastily created the FCC (well, actually, its
predecessor agency) to make sure the *government* wound up owning it
all.

And in any case, your argument doesn't explain why the FCC controls
what you can watch on cable television.  No spectrum problems there.

No, the only justification for government control of radio and
television is that "it's always been that way".  Which is a great
excuse for a lot of unreasonable government actions and always has
abeen.

Perhaps we'll be spared government "protection" of FIDONET, at least.

--- PPoint 1.78
 * Origin: Folcroft Sanitarium (hsmith@cure.com) (1:105/302.47)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 389 of 441
 From : Mark Jones                          1:105/302.47    .åò 11 .þë 96 22:24
 To   : Nicolai Shapero
 Subj : cancelled
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On (09 Jul 96) Nicolai Shapero wrote to Peter McNeill...

 NS> I, for one, remember sitting there watching those really bad TV
 NS> pictures from the moon. "One small step for a man, a giant leap
 NS> for Mankind."
 NS>
 NS> I was entering my sophmore year at UC Berkeley.  It was a hell of a
 NS> time.

   I was on vacation with my family at Wrightsville Beach, NC.  I was
ten years old.  And I sat glued to a small black-and-white portable
television through the whole thing.  It was awe-inspiring.
   That event, not Kennedy's assassination (I was a little young for
that one), is the landmark *I* remember.


--- PPoint 1.78
 * Origin: Folcroft Sanitarium (hsmith@cure.com) (1:105/302.47)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 390 of 441
 From : Frank Glover                        1:2613/477      .cê 14 .þë 96 11:49
 To   : Leman Russ
 Subj : Re: but about models...
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

LR>   BUT, the new technique tookthe 3d image made my the NMR scans and
LR>  uses a pair of hipower UV lasers to solidify a special resin int oan
LR>  exact duplicate of the deformed skull. Basically there was a vat of
LR>  this resin with a porous floor that allowed tiny amounts t obe
LR>  injected evenly into the vat.

   I'm familiar with the laser solidification technique you mention, but not
this particular application. Cool!

LR>   I saw it on a science show.

   I first read of this technology in a science fact article in Analog, but I've
since seen it in action on CNN's `Science & Technology Week' a year or so
ago....

   Frank


--- QuickBBS 2.81 GoldBase (Zeta-2.0b)
 * Origin: The Matrix Data Bank BBS, Rochester, Ny (1:2613/477)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 391 of 441
 From : Frank Glover                        1:2613/477      .cê 14 .þë 96 12:04
 To   : Pavel Viaznikov
 Subj : Re: B5 Renewed
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

PV>  - BTW, not only a car but also a very good  (once) jet fighter...

   Very good. I'd forgotten about that one. More appropriate, too.

   Also reminds me of the tagline you may have seen: "I remember when Saturns
were rockets, not cars...."

   Frank


--- QuickBBS 2.81 GoldBase (Zeta-2.0b)
 * Origin: The Matrix Data Bank BBS, Rochester, Ny (1:2613/477)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 392 of 441
 From : Frank Glover                        1:2613/477      .cê 14 .þë 96 12:13
 To   : James Walton
 Subj : Re: CANCELLED
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

JW>   JH> skin, but bare *everything*.  And if you happen to be religious,
JW>  you
JW>   JH> just HAVE to wonder about your "soul", and if some part of you
JW>  really
JW>   JH> dies every time you get taken apart and put together again.
JW>
JW>  There was a short story published in Asimov's called "Think Like a
JW>  Dinosaur"
JW>  which gives the lowdown on what Transporting is probably really like.
JW>

   The very first original Trek novel, James Blish's `Spock Must Die' explored
some of these metaphysical concerns. And we already have situations where Kirk
was split physically and psycologically into two people for a time, and Will
riker was duplicated, period. (Though his self-renamed twin, Thomas Riker also
seems to have some behavorial differences, though it's hard to say how much is
from the tranporter, or the long period of isolation he experienced
afterward...)

   And if you *really* want to get deep into this, check out physicist Frank
Tipler's `The Physics of Immortality.' He makes interesting arguments based on
quantum physics that an exact replica of you *is* you, as part of a much larger
argument of ressurection in the *very* distant future....

   Frank


--- QuickBBS 2.81 GoldBase (Zeta-2.0b)
 * Origin: The Matrix Data Bank BBS, Rochester, Ny (1:2613/477)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 393 of 441
 From : Frank Glover                        1:2613/477      .cê 14 .þë 96 12:24
 To   : Michael Harper
 Subj : Re: Scheduling SF shows
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

MH>   The annoying thing is, it's totally unnecessary. There's no law that
MH>   says you can't watch and enjoy both shows.
MH>

   Hear hear! The whole arguement is totally alien (pun intended) to me. Only in
those markets (if there are any) where B5 is scheduled opposite one of the Trek
incarnations, could there possibly be a problem. And in those
situations...that's why God created VCRs.

   Frank


--- QuickBBS 2.81 GoldBase (Zeta-2.0b)
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Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 394 of 441
 From : Frank Glover                        1:2613/477      .cê 14 .þë 96 18:18
 To   : Kay Shapero
 Subj : Re: Sitcom stars
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

KS>  I was just remembering when Leonard Nimoy was playing Spock in the
KS>  original Trek series, and it seemed that everything else you saw him
KS>  on he was making up for lost time by grinning like mad.

   I did wince a little when, in his stint as Paris, the disguise master on
Mission: Impossible, he had a line that went: "...what do you think I am, an
emotionles machine?"  or words very much to that effect.

   Frank


--- QuickBBS 2.81 GoldBase (Zeta-2.0b)
 * Origin: The Matrix Data Bank BBS, Rochester, Ny (1:2613/477)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 395 of 441
 From : Patrick Long                        1:271/380       .cê 14 .þë 96 09:25
 To   : David Johnston
 Subj : Minbari And B5
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
     After being chased out to sea by Hurricane Bertha (just as we
suspected - nothing but a blow-hard), I have returned to catch up
with the backlog of mail...

DJ-=>-> BK-=> In any event, the original point was not that the Minbari are
  -=>-> -=> inferior to humans, but that they are not vastly superior.  Your
  -=>-> -=> own points serve to prove that the Minbari are not morally or -=>
  -=>-> culturally superior to humans.
  -=>-> Using Human standards, of course.  Using Minbari standards, who
  -=>-> knows?

DJ-=>When did we stop being human so that we are no longer allowed to use
  -=>human standards?

Who said anything about not being allowed to use human standards?  I'm
merely pointing out that "human standards" are not the ultimate truth.

... Headline:  Doughnut Factory went into the Hole

--- ViaMAIL!/WC5 v1.00c
 * Origin: ViaMail v1.00ñv - The Gondor BBS (804) 888-1367  (1:271/380)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 396 of 441
 From : Owen E. Oulton                      1:243/45        .cê 14 .þë 96 14:30
 To   : Michael Harper
 Subj : Scheduling SF shows
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 MH>  Yeah, but Lois and Clark isn't in the death slot proper; it's opposite
 MH>  Murder, She Wrote, and has a built-in audience already. Space, an
 MH>  entirely new show, being slotted against 60M was in a much less tenable
 MH>  position. I can see Fox's point, though; put it against 60M and rake in
 MH>  the viewers who don't watch the news.

S:A&B also had a very big problem that's going to hurt The X-Files, which is
going into that time slot now.  It's right after FOX Sunday Football, which
almost always runs overtime, making *ANY* show in that slot a real stone bitch
to catch, especially if you're taping.  You have no way of knowing if the game
is going to run overtime, and if so by how much.  The average (off the top of my
head) delay due to football for S:A&B last year was about 15 minutes.

CFN, O

--- Maximus 2.01wb
 * Origin: Pandora's Box, Ottawa, Ont. 613-829-1209 (1:243/45)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 397 of 441
 From : David Little                        1:106/7315      .cê 14 .þë 96 10:34
 To   : Michael Harper
 Subj : CGI vs Models
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
-=< Michael Harper used the Jedi Mind Trick on me!>=-

 DL> You can have "Happy Accidents" with models that cannot be
 DL> programmed into CGIs. Even still, you can almost always point out the
 DL> CGI items because the pixelization is still there.
 MH> Only if it's badly done. The simple fact is that, in either medium,
 MH> you can get cheesy work; there were spots in ID4 that looked cheap to
 MH> these trained eyes. There are trembling mattes in _The Empire Strikes
 MH> Back_, the first Trek movie, and several other films, including some a
 MH> lot more recent. There is lousy CGI work in television and film.
 MH> Crappy work is crappy work, regardless of whether it's CGI or models.

        I TELL YOU, SPIDER-MAN IN THE LIVE ACTION PILOT LOOKS LIKE HE'S
REALLY CLIMBING THE BUILDING!!!!!!<G>

 MH> The best thing you can say about CGI is that it costs a lot less than
 MH> models, and it's more flexible. The Starfuries in B5 couldn't be done
 MH> as models; no mounting points. The other ship designs are possible,
 MH> but the cost of modeling them would make the show prohibitively
 MH> expensive. At the bottom line, it's the cost that makes CGI so
 MH> attractive for this sort of thing. Models would cost ten times as
 MH> much.

        Actually, when B5 started CGI cost more. Now it's about the same. You
have to realize most of the cost in CGI is the computation time in drawing the
individual frames.

                                        -=The DoLittle 8-)=-


... Ask not for whom the belle trolls...
--- Blue Wave/DOS v2.30 [NR]
 * Origin: The Wizards Realm BBS 1-713-946-7315 1:106/7315 (1:106/7315)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 398 of 441
 From : David Johnston                      1:342/14        .îí 15 .þë 96 01:24
 To   : Todd Sullivan
 Subj : Cancelled
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
-> What always annoyed the daylights out of me was how PC Trek had
-> become, as well as hiding behind the PD everytime something requiring
-> ethics and integrity reared its ugly head.

You couldn't stand the way Star Trek avoided racial epithets?

Star Trek was always liberal from it's inception, within the limits
imposed by network execs.  It started out with a highly placed female
character, it had a racially diverse crew to a greater than usual
extent, it preached about the virtues of racial equality and amity,
and peaceful negotiation.

I loathe and despise the lazy habit of using the epithet "PC" to attack
anything you dislike.  It's as intellectually bankrupt as calling
something "fascist" or "communist".  Perhaps more so, since "PC" is even
more of a meaningless buzz word.  Nobody EVER defines just what "PC" is
supposed to be.  I assume that you are NOT talking about Star Trek's
refusal to use words such as "chink" or "nigger", but I have no idea
what you ARE talking about when you call it PC.

--- PCBoard (R) v15.21/100
 * Origin: Freddy's Place - Edm. AB - 33.6K (403) 413-3460 (1:342/14)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 399 of 441
 From : David Johnston                      1:342/14        .îí 15 .þë 96 01:28
 To   : Leman Russ
 Subj : Re: Minbari And B5
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
-> OEO> I'm perfectly convinced that the Minbari (ort least Dukat and
-> the OEO> religious caste members of the Grey Council) knew exactly
-> how the OEO> Terrans would interpret it.  I don't think it's at all a
-> OEO> coincidence that Delenn, Dukat's hand-picked successor was
-> there, OEO> and also at the Battle of the Line, a and that she
-> selected OEO> Sinclair's crippled fighter so that they could
-> "discover" his OEO> Minbari soul.  I suspect that Dukat had recieved
-> one of those OEO> letters from Valen, and that the entire
-> Earth/Minbari war was stage OEO> managed.  I don't think anything was
-> left to chance.
-> Not to be a flamjob, but I have a Liiiitle problem with that.
-> Basically how could they be cerain that Delenn would not be killed if
-> she was that close to Gul Dukat when he bought it? When heavy weapons
-> start flying it n be a matter o luck who gets killed and who doesn't.

Not if you have a letter from the future telling you who lives and who
dies.

--- PCBoard (R) v15.21/100
 * Origin: Freddy's Place - Edm. AB - 33.6K (403) 413-3460 (1:342/14)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 400 of 441
 From : Don Dellmann                        1:154/40        .îí 15 .þë 96 22:29
 To   : Owen E. Oulton
 Subj : CANCELLED
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
While tripping merrily through the mail, Owen E. Oulton was overheard

 BK>  The objective in a war is to defeat the enemy.

 OEO> Unless, of course, you're the Duchy of Grand Fenwick...  :-)

However you will recall that Grand Fenwick DID Win their war.

Don
... "In the beginning, there was nothing. Then even *that* exploded !"
---
 * Origin: Anonymous BBS -=- Non plus Ultra -=- 414-251-2580 (1:154/40)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 401 of 441
 From : Frank Glover                        1:2613/477      .îí 15 .þë 96 21:53
 To   : Bob Klahn
 Subj : Re: JAPANESE SF
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

BK>   That movie played for years and nobody paid it any real attention,
BK>  till
BK>   it played in a country where that language was spoken. When the
BK>  runner
BK>   gave his warning the whole audience broke down in laughter. It seems
BK>  what
BK>   the runner actually said was, "I'm not getting paid enough for this
BK>  job."

   I gather there was something similar in `The Return of the Jedi,' where the
small alien who was flying with Londo Calrisian was saying something that had
meaning in one of the Central African languages: "What are you doing over there?
All of you come over here."

   Which had nothing to do with Londo's dialog. It got the same reaction in
those places....

   Frank


--- QuickBBS 2.81 GoldBase (Zeta-2.0b)
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Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 402 of 441
 From : Frank Glover                        1:2613/477      .îí 15 .þë 96 22:10
 To   : Kay Shapero
 Subj : Re: CANCELLED
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

KS>   BK> Ah yes, I remember it well.
KS>
KS>  I was in college, though home for the summer and watched it on the
KS>  small B&W that was the family TV at the time.  I remember going
KS>  outside afterwards and looking up at the moon for awhile.

   I was watching CBS coverage of it (I remember Walter Cronkheit almost talked
over Neil's first words), and somewhere in the back of my mind was this tiny
hope that maybe extraterrestrials think along lines similar to those in `2001:A
Space Odyssey,' and now that we can reach another world, they would  reveal
themselves.....

   Oh well, wrong again.

   Frank

   (Or maybe it takes a higher threshold of technology? Mars? Pluto? Sub-light
interstellar? Warp drives?)



--- QuickBBS 2.81 GoldBase (Zeta-2.0b)
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Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 403 of 441
 From : Frank Glover                        1:2613/477      .îí 15 .þë 96 22:15
 To   : David Johnston
 Subj : Re: Cancelled
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

DJ>  supposed to be.  I assume that you are NOT talking about Star Trek's
DJ>  refusal to use words such as "chink" or "nigger", but I have no idea
DJ>  what you ARE talking about when you call it PC.

   Besides, in 300 years, even the epithets might be different....

   Frank


--- QuickBBS 2.81 GoldBase (Zeta-2.0b)
 * Origin: The Matrix Data Bank BBS, Rochester, Ny (1:2613/477)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 404 of 441
 From : Jeff Hancock                        1:3600/7        .cê 14 .þë 96 17:16
 To   : James Walton
 Subj : CANCELLED
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

JW>a short story published in Asimov's called "Think Like a Dinosaur"
JW>which gives the lowdown on what Transporting is probably really like.

I'd like to know if it gets reprinted in a collection someday.  Author?
-=-
 * Crazy-J * Do the Enterprise transporters use Zmodem?

--- SLMAIL v3.5C  (#1540)
 * Origin: Robotech  -=-Fansubbed anime available upon request-=- (1:3600/7)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 405 of 441
 From : Jeff Hancock                        1:3600/7        .cê 14 .þë 96 17:22
 To   : Bob Klahn
 Subj : CANCELLED
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

BK> The skin of any ship is going to be relatively thin, even an inch
BK>thick is thin when there is all that empty space around you. The

I think "relatively" is the key word there.  Relatively, the Earth's
crust is very thin when you compare it to the huge volume of magma and
such inside; but people not living next to an active volcano tend not to
worry too much about it! ;-)

BK> JH>even bare skin, but bare *everything*.  And if you happen to be
BK> I had never thought of it that way, but it does sound depraved.

That's me.

BK>if you died at one end and came to life at the other, you were dying
BK>and being recreated all the time anyway.

...Well, that's ONE way to think of it.  Although I'd prefer to believe
that we were more than just the equivalent of universal cels in some
giant film of the cosmos and that the projector could fail at any
moment.

BK> How about a star traveler's guild of claustrophile/agoraphobics who
BK>can travel between the stars, but can't bear to leave their ships?

So who repairs them?  If they can't stand the outside, then they
couldn't even teleoperate robots.

-=-
 * Crazy-J * Hello, I'll be your evil influence for the nonce.

--- SLMAIL v3.5C  (#1540)
 * Origin: Robotech  -=-Fansubbed anime available upon request-=- (1:3600/7)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 406 of 441
 From : Jeff Hancock                        1:3600/7        .cê 14 .þë 96 17:29
 To   : Leman Russ
 Subj : Japanese SF
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

LR> I have the first Dp ep on tape, and tes indeed they list the names
LR>ofthe original cast members on a screen i nthe background.

I have the first four, and there was a lot of various info on the
computer screens, but I didn't stop to read it all.  One of these days
I'm going to go through the tape and search for those references.

LR> I heard about the Kei and Yuri reference in that TNG ep with the
LR>ferengi, but not about thestarmaps.

The first reference is moderately well talked about, although I don't
know of anyone who has any concrete proof.  Not sure the names are
visible on-screen.  The starmaps could be a rumor.

LR> Nausicans, yes there was a video called "Nausica inthe valley of
LR>wind" I think.

Well if there isn't, then I don't know how you explain the video sitting
on my shelf. ;-)

Someone commented on the ANIME echo that it was a really inappropriate
reference since the Nausica'ans (or whatever) were extremely ugly; and
should not have been named after a beautiful story and an attractive
character.  Now if they'd been called the Ohmu, which were these
bug-like things FROM the Nausicaa movie...
-=-
 * Crazy-J * "Hello, would you like to buy some Sailor Scout cookies?"

--- SLMAIL v3.5C  (#1540)
 * Origin: Robotech  -=-Fansubbed anime available upon request-=- (1:3600/7)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 407 of 441
 From : Jeff Hancock                        1:3600/7        .cê 14 .þë 96 17:32
 To   : Kay Shapero
 Subj : Japanese SF
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

KS>With the added boobytrap of the fact that Japanese is in some ways
KS>the language of the pun.

I'd heard a few references along those lines, but I didn't think it was
that widespread.  Pity the puns don't translate.

KS>mispronounce a Japanese word it is fatally easy to find you have
KS>correctly pronounced another Japanese word.  (As a result, parts of

That was touched upon once in the movie, "Mr. Baseball".  Urusei Yatsura
is another series which, if the liner notes are anything to go by,
highly loaded with cultural jokes, puns, and so forth; which would be
completely incomphensible without explanation for us Nihongo-impaired.
Even the title is a pun of sorts.

KS>improvise their own dialogue in their own language.  Needless to say,
KS>a lot of the dialogue does not match the subtitles... :->  But, alas,

So much for subliminally learning the language. ;)
-=-
 * Crazy-J * A rose by any other name would still attract aphids.

--- SLMAIL v3.5C  (#1540)
 * Origin: Robotech  -=-Fansubbed anime available upon request-=- (1:3600/7)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 408 of 441
 From : Jeff Hancock                        1:3600/7        .cê 14 .þë 96 17:35
 To   : Boris Cduke
 Subj : Japanese SF
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

BC> JH> Okay, what SF anime have you seen and what would you recommend?
BC>The best japanimation is, imho, AKIRA.

Ah, yes, the infamous Akira.  Haven't seen it yet.  However, most people
on the ANIME echo seem to agree that while the animation is excellent,
the story is rather muddled and confusing.

Great artwork does not a classic make, although it certainly helps.  Of
course, to some people great "art" is not meant to be easily or fully
understood. ;-)

However, if I were you, I'd check out a little more variety before
declaring Akira as "the best".  What _else_ would you recommend?

-=-
 * Crazy-J * THERE ARE NO SUCH THINGS AS ORBITAL MIND CONTROL LASERS.

--- SLMAIL v3.5C  (#1540)
 * Origin: Robotech  -=-Fansubbed anime available upon request-=- (1:3600/7)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 409 of 441
 From : GERRY NORMANDEAU                    1:243/95        .cê 14 .þë 96 17:49
 To   : JAMES WALTON
 Subj : CANCELLED
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Standing at the gallows pole James Walton spat a curse on Jeff Hancock, accusin
 him of CANCELLED!

 JH> Transporting in the Star Trek style would seem to be the ultimate form
 JH> of nudity.  Just your atoms streaming through the cosmos.  Not even bare
 JH> skin, but bare *everything*.  And if you happen to be religious, you
 JH> just HAVE to wonder about your "soul", and if some part of you really
 JH> dies every time you get taken apart and put together again.

 JW> There was a short story published in Asimov's called "Think Like a
 JW> Dinosaur" which gives the lowdown on what Transporting is probably
 JW> really like.

The Novel "Spock Must Die!" had Dr. MaCoy and Scotty arguing this same
thing. The Dr. was arguing that the transporter destroyed the original
and created a copy at the destination. The rest of the book was crud. :(


________________________________________________________________________
|  _______    |                   GERRY NORMANDEAU                     |
|  []    |    |   cn754@freenet.carlton.ca / Vanier, Ontario, CANADA   |
|  []    O    |~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~|
|  []   /|\   |Royal Hangman To His Majesty King Bruno The Questionable|
|  []   / \   |~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~|
|  []         |        "ALWAYS ROOM FOR ONE MORE, ME'LORD!"            |
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
... "Benjamin, why is Kira talking to an invisible person called Al?"

___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20
--- Platinum Xpress/Wildcat! v1.2j
 * Origin: The OFFSPRING BBS! Orleans, Ontario CANADA (613)834-8587 (1:243/95)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 410 of 441
 From : GERRY NORMANDEAU                    1:243/95        .cê 14 .þë 96 18:07
 To   : LEMAN RUSS
 Subj : MINBARI AND B5
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Standing at the gallows pole Leman Russ spat a curse on Owen E. Oulton, accusin
 him of MINBARI AND B5!


 LR> Not to be a flamjob, but I have a Liiiitle problem with that.
 LR> Basically how could they be cerain that Delenn would not be killed if
 LR> she was that close to Gul Dukat when he bought it? When heavy weapons
 LR> start flying it n be a matter of luck who gets killed and who doesn't.

 LR> Forthat matter, how did dukat buy it and anyone on his ship survive
 LR> if it was hit hard enough, it should have opened to vacc and that's it
 LR> for Delenn and everyone else.
 >:[

Um. Excuse me, but Gul Dukat is a Cardasian and the former comander
of Star Trek: Deep Space 9.
As far as I remember, the ship took major hits but survived to make it
back to the homeworld. Remember the sole hunter came for him on the
homeworld and had to fight off a whole lot of Mimbaries to get to him.
Of course no one ever said Delenn was on the ship in the first place.


________________________________________________________________________
|  _______    |                   GERRY NORMANDEAU                     |
|  []    |    |   cn754@freenet.carlton.ca / Vanier, Ontario, CANADA   |
|  []    O    |~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~|
|  []   /|\   |Royal Hangman To His Majesty King Bruno The Questionable|
|  []   / \   |~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~|
|  []         |        "ALWAYS ROOM FOR ONE MORE, ME'LORD!"            |
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
... AD&D FLW: "Stand back you wimps - *I* will kill it!"

___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20
--- Platinum Xpress/Wildcat! v1.2j
 * Origin: The OFFSPRING BBS! Orleans, Ontario CANADA (613)834-8587 (1:243/95)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 411 of 441
 From : Todd Sullivan                       1:202/720.3     .cê 14 .þë 96 19:56
 To   : Myra I Fox
 Subj : Sitcom stars
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Reports from the Interior indicate that Myra I Fox leaked the following to
Michael Harper, re: Sitcom stars

 -=>> Quoting Michael Harper to Kay Shapero<=-

 MH>> Brent was a semi-regular on _Night Court_, Kay. He played this
 MH>> stereotypical hick named Bob who ran the snack bar. And he was funny
 MH>> as hell. The character was about as different from Data as night from
 MH>> day.

 MIF> That is how I recognized him in INDEPENDENCE DAY, by that accent! <g>

Oh, so you've decided to come up for air, have you? <hugs>

Todd Sullivan

... "You are entering another dimension...
     A dimension we call The Twilight Zone."

-*- ASTG 1.9

--- Spot 1.3a Unregistered
 * Origin: Todd's Spot in the Continuum (1:202/720.3)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 412 of 441
 From : Lis Carey                           1:101/230       .cê 14 .þë 96 07:32
 To   : Gerry Normandeau
 Subj : CANCELLED
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
GN> GN>thing the Klingons were wining then they send over a bording party armed
GN> GN>with
GN> GN>only Batleths!???! That is the stupidest way to take over a station. Als
GN> GN>if you take over a station send in everyone. Not just a losy 100 guys, y
GN> GN>send
GN> GN>in every marine from every ship and then you keep sending them until you
GN> GN>have
GN> GN>whiped out all resistance. These are supose to be trained and hardened
GN> GN>worriors.
GN> GN>Then they pull out because SIX!??!? starships were coming? They outnumbe
GN> GN>them,
GN> GN>what, 10 to one?

GN> GS> Yes, but then they would have a full scale war on their hands.
GN> GS> Even the Klingons do not want that.

GN>Sorry but the feds won't go to war. They are to spinless. All I would have t
GN>do is take the system, whipe out the bajorins and toss an antimatter bomb in
GN>the wormhole then tell the feds if you want to use it make peace NOW or we b
GN>the wormhole closed forever! It is now part of the Empire. Or more realistic

GN>bomb the wormhole closed leave the system end of story. That would be more
GN>consistant with Klingon policy against the Dominion.
GN> Don't say that the feds will attack becuse they just don't have the will. Y
GN>have to undrstand that the Federation is not an empire, it is a loose collec

GN>of economic partners. All the Klingons have to do is draw the conflict out a
GN>make it so expensive that the member worlds will start to think "Hay We can'
GN>afford this Sh%$." Then you will see those lesser planets start to drop out
GN>the Federation. Economics is the key. The Klingon empire is in a better posi

GN>to out wait the Feds in a long campain. Remember they are wariors and not af

GN>to take casualties, but are the Feds willing to lose whole planetary systems
GN>over DS9 or the closing of the Wormhole?

Gerry, you're overlooking an important point - we already _know_ about
major wars the Federation has fought or was prepared to fight before
negotiations averted the war. The Klingons know this. They sincerely
believe that they are better warriors than Starfleet personnel are, but
they're not nearly so sure of the proposition that the Empire can defeat
the Federation - and they know that if they threaten anything vital, the
Federation will fight.

But there _there_ is where the real difference between them lies, that
causes the unobservant and thoughtless to describe the Federation as
"spineless": the Federation tends to avoid escalating to full-scale war
over actions that are merely provocative rather than genuinely
threatening.

And economics often is the key, though not quite the way you meant. A
single assault on DS9, that's driven off and not accompanied by attacks
elsewhere, is merely provocative; threaten the wormhole, and you're
threatening what the Federation regards as a "vital interest" because of
the potential for trade once they deal with the Dominion.

 * OLX 2.1 TD * An armed society is a frightened society.

--- FLAME v1.0
 * Origin: Withouta Net - Drop In Anytime! - 617/846-5416 (1:101/230)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 413 of 441
 From : Henry Triplett                      1:106/564       .îí 15 .þë 96 08:31
 To   : LEMAN RUSS
 Subj : CGI vs Models
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

-=> Quoting Leman Russ to Henry Triplett <=-

 LR> You said a model exists and a cgi doesn;t. True, BUT!, both ofthem
 LR> are just  images on your TV when they reach you, so the model is no
 LR> more or less  realthanthe cgi at that stage amnd vice versa.
 >:[

Since you didn't quote back any of the message, I can't be sure.  But I
believe that I was making a sarcastic response on the issue.  Neither the
model nor the CGI are 'real' representations at any stage in the process.

Henry

... Open the pod bay doors, Hal.

___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20 [NR]
--- GEcho 1.00
 * Origin: Eat Flaming Death    Houston Texas    713-447-1927 (1:106/564)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 414 of 441
 From : Henry Triplett                      1:106/564       .îí 15 .þë 96 08:39
 To   : NICOLAI SHAPERO
 Subj : Sliders
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

-=> Quoting Nicolai Shapero to Henry Triplett <=-

 NS> They showed a new episode last night.  And it was one of the weirdest

Amen!

 NS> ones to  date.  And NO KROMAGS.  Maybe if we all think real hard, we'll
 NS> decide that we  just IMAGINED that episode.  And maybe if we're all
 NS> real lucky, the writers  will take the same tack...

I didn't get to view it until Sunday, but I'll think real hard too.  Do
you think we need to click our heels together three times or somesuch? <g>

Though I have a disturbing feeling that we're not going to be that lucky.
:(

Henry

... Been through hell?  Great... what did you bring me?

___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20 [NR]
--- GEcho 1.00
 * Origin: Eat Flaming Death    Houston Texas    713-447-1927 (1:106/564)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 415 of 441
 From : Henry Triplett                      1:106/564       .îí 15 .þë 96 09:01
 To   : KAY SHAPERO
 Subj : CGI vs Models
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

-=> Quoting Kay Shapero to Henry Triplett <=-

 HT>What are "Happy Accidents?"  And if they achieve desireable FX
 HT>results, why can't they be programmed?

 KS> Presumably you can if he's talking about the way design improves
 KS> during  construction.  You can also have unhappy accidents with models
 KS> - the real  reason the Romulans in the original Star Trek changed to
 KS> using Klingon style  warships was that someone broke the original
 KS> Romulan Warbird model and it was  too expensive to build another one...

Too true, and in that moment the whole Trek universe changed.

Also, if you want to destroy something (more) realistically with models,
you have to blow up the model.  An expensive proposition and one still
limited by the laws of physics. (and also limited to one take, better
get it right!)  Otherwise, it's the ol' "light a sparkler" effect that
was seen so often in TNG.  Or, they have to use CGI (heavens forbid!)

Henry



... Average landing party: Kirk, Dr. McCoy, Spock and Ensign Monsterbait.

___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20 [NR]
--- GEcho 1.00
 * Origin: Eat Flaming Death    Houston Texas    713-447-1927 (1:106/564)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 416 of 441
 From : Henry Triplett                      1:106/564       .îí 15 .þë 96 09:16
 To   : MICHAEL HARPER
 Subj : more CGI defense..
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Hi, Michael!

-=> Quoting Michael Harper to Leman Russ <=-

 MH> I'm going to add something else, if I can get it to come up right.
 MH> This is from JMS, and may give you an idea about what's planned for
 MH> the next Star Wars film...

        <snip>

 MH> Star Wars: The Restored Edition. What they did there was truly
 MH> astonishing; what they're doing for SW is gonna make both JP and ID4
 MH> look cheap.

I would have had doubts about this if I hadn't seen the promo which aired
before ID4.  (Saw it last night!)  You're right, Lucas & company are
raising the standard once again.  BIG TIME!  For those who haven't seen it,
the FX are going to wow you.  Not only the spacecraft and the like, but the
creatures.  (ie: Jabba the Hutt slithering down the avenue in Mos Eisley.)

Henry

... Synonym (n.): The word you use when you can't spell the other one.

___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20 [NR]
--- GEcho 1.00
 * Origin: Eat Flaming Death    Houston Texas    713-447-1927 (1:106/564)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 417 of 441
 From : Henry Triplett                      1:106/564       .îí 15 .þë 96 11:00
 To   : DAVID LITTLE
 Subj : CGI vs Models
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

-=> Quoting David Little to Henry Triplett <=-

 HT> What are "Happy Accidents?"
 DL>
 DL> A better sounding word for mistakes.<G> One of the artist that
 DL> does shows for PBS, Bob Ross, uses that expression quite often. "We
 DL> don't make mistakes, we have `Happy Accidents'!"

 HT> And if they achieve desireable FX results, why can't they be programmed?
 DL>
 DL> The way the light hits the model unexpectedly, the way the
 DL> engines  fly off when the model explodes. I have yet to see a really

Well all of that and more can certainly be programmed.

 DL> cool and debris filled CGI explosion.

They are out there, just take a good look around.  Babylon 5 has had tons
of them.  Another good source is the movie "Independence Day."  The best
source will probably be in the re-release of the "Star Wars" trilogy
beginning next year.  In fact, you'll probably find more debris-filled
explosions produced by CGI than by models.  (Something about the tens of
thousands of $$$ in cost! <g>)

 DL> With newer, faster, and cheaper computers coming out just
 DL> about every month, I have no doubt there will come a point we will see
 DL> more CGI than models. I also have a feeling we might even do away with
 DL> actors ar some point.

I don't know if it will do away with actors, but I can sure see it being
used to augment thier performances.  Like I told Kay in another message,
I'm looking forward to seeing a Pierson's Puppeteer on the screen in my
lifetime.

 HT> ... Psst!  I heard David was socializing with Kai Winn!!

 DL> Nowhere do the prophets say "NO hanky panky!"

Heh, heh, heh!

 DL> ... "Henry, don't give in to hate - that leads to the dark side."

I find your lack of faith disturbing....  <heavy breathing>

Henry

... "I'm just anxious to get up there and kick E.T.'s ass." --Hiller

___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20 [NR]
--- GEcho 1.00
 * Origin: Eat Flaming Death    Houston Texas    713-447-1927 (1:106/564)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 418 of 441
 From : Nicolai Shapero                     1:102/524       .îí 15 .þë 96 05:58
 To   : Myra I Fox
 Subj : Sitcom stars
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Jul 12 08:15>, Myra I Fox (1:123/10) wrote to Michael Harper:

 MI>That is how I recognized him in INDEPENDENCE DAY, by that accent!
 MI><g>

Looked to me like he was playing a younger Dr. Sung for ID4...

-- Nicolai Shapero, the Mad Russian Sysop of StormGate Aerie

--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 419 of 441
 From : Kay Shapero                         1:102/524       .îí 15 .þë 96 10:32
 To   : Jeff Hancock
 Subj : Japanese SF
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Jul 12 17:27>, Jeff Hancock (1:3600/7) wrote to Kay Shapero:

 JH>They might, at that.  I've only seen two so far, and they did
 JH>have some SFish elements, particularly for the time period they
 JH>seem to be set in.

Try the Lupin III movie, Mystery of Mamo, if you can find it.  It's a
mad-scientist epic and vastly entertaining.

 JH>been whining a little too much about that. ;)  I was hoping to at
 JH>least arouse some curiosity, remind people that anime is more than they
JH>might expect and let people know that there were alternatives they
 JH>might not have known about.

Unfortunately I think what you did do, at least with that last post, was make a
lot of not necessarily accurate assumptions about everybody else and then berate
them for it.  Poor tactics.

--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 420 of 441
 From : Kay Shapero                         1:102/524       .îí 15 .þë 96 10:33
 To   : Todd Sullivan
 Subj : B5 Renewed
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Jul 13 17:16>, Todd Sullivan (1:202/720.3) wrote to Kay Shapero:

 TS>They don't know how lucky they were.  All us "old fogies" had to
 TS>deal with Lost in Space, Voyage..Bottom..Sea and other dreck that
 TS>was truly awful.

 TS>The latter was a lot worse, as with the sinking ice bergs and
 TS>chasing critters around with the reactor's fuel rods.  And it was
 TS>an incredibly small reactor, too, powering a ship twice the
 TS>length of a Trident boomer...

Voyage to See What's on the Bottom?  At least parts of it were hilarious,
intentionally or otherwise...  Remember UFO?  One of my treasured posessions is
a photobutton of one of the flying saucers from that show, with the wires
holding it up *clearly* visible...  I'm told it was originally supposed to be
done with marionettes like Fireball XL-5, which may explain a few things.  :->

--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 421 of 441
 From : Kay Shapero                         1:102/524       .îí 15 .þë 96 15:39
 To   : Michael Harper
 Subj : Scheduling SF shows
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Jul 12 13:17>, Michael Harper (1:123/10) wrote to Darre LuAllen:

 DL> Excuse my ignorance, but is Barbara Hambly a writer?

 MH> And a very good one, too. She's done several Trek novels, a
 MH>couple of dynamite fantasy trilogies, some crosstime sf, some vampire
 MH>tales...
 MH> she's very talented, and a delight to be around. Has a wonderful
 MH>sense of humor.

And let's not forget Search the Seven Hills, a truly wonderful historical
mystery.  She writes Good Stuff!

 MH> There is where I run dry. I have no idea why the networks do the
 MH>idiot things they do. I worked in television for a short time, and
 MH>came to the conclusion that people in that business are insane.

As far as programming is concerned, I'm reminded strongly of penguins on the
edge of an ice floe.  Each really wants to get into the water and catch fish,
but at the same time none wants to be first in and likely get eaten by a leopard
seal.  So they all push and shove until someone else gets pushed into the water
and if nothing bad happens to them, then everybody else piles in.

 MH>... "I'm just anxious to get up there and kick E.T.'s ass."
 MH>--Hiller

I haven't seen ID4 yet; *is* that the best line in the movie?  I've been
wondering since I first saw the promo...

--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 422 of 441
 From : Kay Shapero                         1:102/524       .îí 15 .þë 96 15:21
 To   : Jeff Hancock
 Subj : Japanese SF
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Jul 12 17:32>, Jeff Hancock (1:3600/7) wrote to Darre Luallen:


 JH> * Crazy-J * "Ensign C-ko?"  "She ate her own food, Jim..."

ROFL!!!!!  (What a terrible way to go... :->)

--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 423 of 441
 From : Kay Shapero                         1:102/524       .îí 15 .þë 96 15:23
 To   : Bob Klahn
 Subj : CANCELLED
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Jul 13 12:49>, Bob Klahn (1:234/2) wrote to Kay Shapero:

 BK> infiltrate the march. When the actual march took place there
 BK>were about 20 marchers. There were more undercover agents than actual
 BK>marchers.

Figures...  At least they didn't decide to create the entire thing, unlike
something Nicolai got caught in at Berkeley.  It seems like someone, somewhere,
wanted to create a riot so they waited until a lot of students came out of class
into Sproul plaza, headed for lunch, then blocked off the exits and ordered
everybody to disperse.  Of course, with noplace to disperse *to*, everybody just
continued to mill about in confusion, then some brilliant military strategist
told the line of constabulary lined up across one end of the plaza to fire tear
gas grenades over the crowd.   At least one ditz promptly fired his INTO the
crowd. The crowd promptly fled the plaza by way of the southern exit (the
largest), incidentally overrunning the line of cops, then dispersed dispersed to
wherever they were going to in the first place.  The evening news got a lot of
nice shots of the "riot".  The students present got a nice lesson in underhanded
political chicanery.  Fortunately, nobody got killed.

 BK> Spoiler for an oldie.









 BK> Fiction: That scene was played out in "Bill The Galactic Hero",
 BK>when the underground plotters made their big move. You gotta read it. I
 BK>believe the fiction was unrelated to the fact, but you never know.

I've read it, and it was, indeed, a hoot.  Especially since I'm rather fond of
Starship Troopers.  :->

--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 424 of 441
 From : Kay Shapero                         1:102/524       .îí 15 .þë 96 15:32
 To   : Bob Klahn
 Subj : SITCOM STARS
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Jul 13 12:49>, Bob Klahn (1:234/2) wrote to Kay Shapero:

 KS> I've never SEEN Night Court.  Thus I've no idea who was on it.

 BK> You missed one of the funniest shows on TV. And you missed Brent
 BK>Spiners appearances also.

Sounds like it. Ah well, maybe I'll catch it in syndication sometime.
Pretentious as it sounds, I really *don't* watch much TV - I count myself lucky
that I've seen Babylon 5 from the TV movie on.  And I owe that to fannish rumor.


--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 425 of 441
 From : Kay Shapero                         1:102/524       .îí 15 .þë 96 15:34
 To   : Bob Klahn
 Subj : BUT ABOUT MODELS...
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Jul 13 12:49>, Bob Klahn (1:234/2) wrote to Leman Russ:


 LR>  vat of honey-like resin. Amazing breakthru, and incredibly it wasn;t
 LR>  military in nature.

 BK> Don't bet the farm that it didn't derive from something
 BK>military.

Considering that in the article I saw (in Discover I think) suggested parking a
future one using metallic dust on an aircraft carrier to turn out small parts so
they don't have to stock *everything* on board, my bet is if it didn't start out
military, the military are interested by now.

I hadn't heard about the surgical modeling, but I must say I LIKE it!

--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 426 of 441
 From : Kay Shapero                         1:102/524       .îí 15 .þë 96 15:36
 To   : Bob Klahn
 Subj : CANCELLED
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Jul 13 12:50>, Bob Klahn (1:234/2) wrote to Todd Sullivan:

 BK> The ones who are dead may look dead, but don't count on the ones
 BK>who look
 BK> dead being dead.

"Life's feeble flicker flew/and left his bod with you..."  (From "He's Dead
Jim", a filksong I don't know the author of but wish I did.  The whole thing's a
hoot.)

--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 427 of 441
 From : David Little                        1:106/7315      .îí 15 .þë 96 08:58
 To   : Bob Klahn
 Subj : CGI VS MODELS
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
-=< Bob Klahn used the Jedi Mind Trick on me!>=-

 DL>         The way the light hits the model unexpectedly, the way the
 DL>         engines fly off when the model explodes. I have yet to see a
 DL>         really cool and debris filled CGI explosion.
 BK> More often than not the engines will fly off in such a way that they
 BK> will have to reshoot, or touch up, the shot.

        In which they do build several models.


 HT>> ... Psst!  I heard David was socializing with Kai Winn!!
 DL>         Nowhere do the prophets say "NO hanky panky!"
 BK> Tagline material!
 DL> ... "Henry, don't give in to hate - that leads to the dark side."
 BK> ... Come over to the dark side, David, we have much better medical


                                        -=The DoLittle 8-)=-


... FREE TOASTER IF YOU JOIN THE DARKSIDE!
--- Blue Wave/DOS v2.30 [NR]
 * Origin: The Wizards Realm BBS 1-713-946-7315 1:106/7315 (1:106/7315)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 428 of 441
 From : Brion Lienhart                      1:213/700.2     .òp 16 .þë 96 10:38
 To   : Kay Shapero
 Subj : Sitcom stars
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On Thu Jul 11, Kay Shapero said to Paul Worley:

 PW>I'm shocked!!! You don't remember him as the down and out, hobo
 PW>father on Night Court???

 -KS>I've never SEEN Night Court.  Thus I've no idea who was on it.

Way back when STTNG first came out, there was a lot of conversation about who
was on what before. I remember the Spiner/Night Court connection being
mentioned, but I watched Night Court all the time. If you didn't watch, you
probably didn't remember. As far as I can remember, Night Court started its run
several years before TNG.



--- QM v1.31
 * Origin: Ministry of Peace - Carson City, NV (1:213/700.2)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 429 of 441
 From : Brion Lienhart                      1:213/700.2     .òp 16 .þë 96 10:11
 To   : Jeff Hancock
 Subj : Japanese SF
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On Fri Jul 12, Jeff Hancock said to Brion Lienhart:

BL>Gall Force is pretty good.

 -JH>I just looked it up in the Anime Primer.  Sounds like fun all right.
 -JH>I'll have to see if Media Play carries it.

 -JH>Still...  All the guys wiped out?  Sounds like a feminist fantasy. <g>

There never were any men. They reproduce by cloning tanks or something like
that, it's mentioned in the 3rd film (I think).

BL>You'll have to suffer through frequent pictures of nekkid wimmen

 -JH>I can deal with that, but I do hope there's more to it.  Cheesecake is
 -JH>all well and good, but it's not everything.

Oh yeah. There is lots of good SF in it, as well as Mecha action and space
battles.

 -JH>Baywatch notwithstanding.

Dunno, I don't watch it much because in the ones that I've seen, the plots are
so stupid.




--- QM v1.31
 * Origin: Ministry of Peace - Carson City, NV (1:213/700.2)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 430 of 441
 From : Brion Lienhart                      1:213/700.2     .òp 16 .þë 96 10:14
 To   : Jeff Hancock
 Subj : The sf channel
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On Fri Jul 12, Jeff Hancock said to Brion Lienhart:

BL>It's like somebody who has a classic car that they really like.

 -JH>Meaning there will be the obligatory scene where someone dents or
 -JH>scratches it and she gets extremely annoyed and blows them away.

Yup. Just about every episode.

 -JH>Another addition to the SF lineup, at least in the parody department,
 -JH>would have to be the anime classic (or so they tell me ;)
 -JH>"Project A-ko", which I finally saw the other night.

I've had that for years. I've got all five episodes that I know about.



--- QM v1.31
 * Origin: Ministry of Peace - Carson City, NV (1:213/700.2)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 431 of 441
 From : Brion Lienhart                      1:213/700.2     .òp 16 .þë 96 10:23
 To   : Brandon Wolgast
 Subj : Asimov book order?
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On Sat Jul 13, Brandon Wolgast said to All:

 -BW>PRELUDE TO FOUNDATION

_Forward the Foundation_ takes place right after Prelude.

 -BW>FOUNDATION
 -BW>FOUNDATION AND EMPIRE
 -BW>SECOND FOUNDATION
 -BW>FOUNDATION'S EDGE

_Foundation and Earth_ takes place after Edge.

However the order I would advise you to read them in is:

_Foundation_, _Foundation & Empire_, _Second Foundation_, _Foundations Edge_,
_Foundation and Earth_, and then go back and read Prelude and Forward.




--- QM v1.31
 * Origin: Ministry of Peace - Carson City, NV (1:213/700.2)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 432 of 441
 From : Brion Lienhart                      1:213/700.2     .òp 16 .þë 96 10:32
 To   : Frank Glover
 Subj : Re: B5 Renewed
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On Sun Jul 14, Frank Glover said to Pavel Viaznikov:

 -FG>   Also reminds me of the tagline you may have seen: "I remember when
 -FG>Saturns were rockets, not cars...."

One of the people that works here has the license plate 6PLANET on their Saturn.



--- QM v1.31
 * Origin: Ministry of Peace - Carson City, NV (1:213/700.2)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 433 of 441
 From : Leman Russ                          1:2250/7        .îí 15 .þë 96 04:46
 To   : Jeff Hancock
 Subj : Re: Japanese SF
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 JH> So what have you seen, and what would you recommend?

 I think "Ghost in the shell" is worth watching...

>:[

--- DLG Pro v1.0/DLGMail
 * Origin: Sage's Tower - Amiga - (618) 259-1844 (1:2250/7)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 434 of 441
 From : Kevin Ahearn                        1:109/104       .òp 16 .þë 96 19:40
 To   : Frank Glover
 Subj : Re: Cancelled
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 FG>
DJ>  supposed to be.  I assume that you are NOT talking about Star Trek's
DJ>  refusal to use words such as "chink" or "nigger", but I have no idea
DJ>  what you ARE talking about when you call it PC.
 FG>
 FG>    Besides, in 300 years, even the epithets might be different....

On DS9, Humans are often called "Hu-mons" by Ferengi, while Ferengi are
sometimes called "trolls."

--Kevin

--- Maximus/2 3.01
 * Origin: ShanErin (1:109/104)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 435 of 441
 From : Demian Katz                         1:2626/102      .îí 15 .þë 96 10:58
 To   : Michael Harper
 Subj : Re: Scheduling SF shows
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
> Yeah, but Lois and Clark isn't in the death slot proper; it's opposite
> Murder, She Wrote, and has a built-in audience already. Space, an
> entirely new show, being slotted against 60M was in a much less tenable
> position. I can see Fox's point, though; put it against 60M and rake in
> the viewers who don't watch the news.

Get all the poor souls who got hooked on Earth 2 before its unfortunate
demise.  I far preferred Earth 2 to Space: Above and Beyond, though.

--- DB 1.58/005132
 * Origin: Castrovalva BBS  610-917-0380 (1:2626/102)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 436 of 441
 From : Ken Mayes                           1:393/7         .òp 16 .þë 96 10:24
 To   : Gerry Normandeau
 Subj : Re: cancelled
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On Sun 30-Jun-1996 10:07p, Gerry Normandeau said to Glenn Shaheen:

GN> COOL!? That has got to be the most inepedt battle I have ever seen! For
GN> one
GN> thing the Klingons were wining then they send over a bording party armed
GN> with
GN> only Batleths!???! That is the stupidest way to take over a station. Also
GN> if you take over a station send in everyone. Not just a losy 100 guys, you
GN> send
GN> in every marine from every ship and then you keep sending them until you
GN> have
GN> whiped out all resistance. These are supose to be trained and hardened
GN> worriors.
GN> Then they pull out because SIX!??!? starships were coming? They outnumber
GN> them,
GN> what, 10 to one?

        After reading your message, I went back and watched Way of the Warrior
again. The Klingon boarding party was fairly small because they were beaming in
through small openings in the sheilds. Remember O'Brian stated that they had
knocked out two (and only two) of DS9's sheild generators. It's like trying to
force sand through the small opening in an hour glass. It'll fit, but it's a
slow process.
        Secondly, the Klingons were NOT armed only with Batleths. Most of them
carried their Batleths in one hand for close order combat and their disruptor
pistols/rifles in the other. There was quite a bit of cross fire if you'll
remember. Would you accuse a marine that was forced to fight with his bayonet of
going into battle with only his bayonet? I think not. Watch the episode again
and you'll see that you were just plain wrong.
        Third, six starships were coming. That's right. But how many of the
Klingon ships had already been destroyed by DS9? Kira stated that eight Klingon
ships were destroyed less than thirty seconds into the battle. Off hand, I'd say
they were getting their teeth kicked in and they knew it. Six more Starships
rushing to join the fray only added icing on the cake.



--- CNet/3
 * Origin: The Bard's Tavern Denton, TX (817)243-5110 USR 28.8   (1:393/7)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 437 of 441
 From : Michael Harper                      1:123/10        .îí 15 .þë 96 08:11
 To   : Kay Shapero
 Subj : CGI vs Models
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
While sipping a dry martini, Kay Shapero told Henry Triplett about
CGI vs Models...

 KS> Presumably you can if he's talking about the way design improves
 KS> during construction.  You can also have unhappy accidents with models
 KS> - the real reason the Romulans in the original Star Trek changed to
 KS> using Klingon style warships was that someone broke the original
 KS> Romulan Warbird model and it was too expensive to build another one...

 Eek. Didn't know that. See, ya learn something new every day...

 I'm surprised Jeffries and Rugg didn't just glue it back together; they
 were famous for making something outta damn near nothing. The model
 must've gotten broken real bad...


... "I think we just had our glitch for this mission." --Jim Lovell
--- RA/FD/FMail
 * Origin: The Eclectic Fox -- Memphis TN  (901)327-1008 (1:123/10)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 438 of 441
 From : Michael Harper                      1:123/10        .îí 15 .þë 96 08:11
 To   : Henry Triplett
 Subj : CGI vs Models
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
While sipping a dry martini, Henry Triplett told GLENN SHAHEEN about
CGI vs Models...

 HT> Cartoons, eh.  And you say you've seen video shot in space?  Like I
 HT> told Kay, you've got your blinders on.  I give up, anyone else care to
 HT> try?

 Not me, Henry. Glenn's got his mind made up; nothing we can do is gonna
 change it. If he thinks CGI looks fake, let him. I'll still take CGI
 over models; much more flexible. But I'm through arguing a hopeless
 case.

... "I'm gettin' too old for this shit." --Roger Murtaugh
--- RA/FD/FMail
 * Origin: The Eclectic Fox -- Memphis TN  (901)327-1008 (1:123/10)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 439 of 441
 From : Owen E. Oulton                      1:243/45        .òp 16 .þë 96 13:05
 To   : Don Dellmann
 Subj : CANCELLED
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 BK>  The objective in a war is to defeat the enemy.

 OEO> Unless, of course, you're the Duchy of Grand Fenwick...  :-)

 DD> However you will recall that Grand Fenwick DID Win their war.

Bloody incompetents...

CFN, O

--- Maximus 2.01wb
 * Origin: Pandora's Box, Ottawa, Ont. 613-829-1209 (1:243/45)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 440 of 441
 From : GERRY NORMANDEAU                    1:243/95        .îí 15 .þë 96 16:41
 To   : BOB KLAHN
 Subj : CANCELLED
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Standing at the gallows pole Bob Klahn spat a curse on Glenn Shaheen, accusing
im of CANCELLED!


 BK>> Hey, that's a classic.

 GS>         Plan 9 is great. Not if you take it seriously, though.

 BK> And if you ignore the fact that the star died in the middle of
 BK> shooting, and wasn't replaced.

 BK> Bob Klahn

Weeell He was, sort of, by Ed Wood's Wife's Ciropracter.


________________________________________________________________________
|  _______    |                   GERRY NORMANDEAU                     |
|  []    |    |   cn754@freenet.carlton.ca / Vanier, Ontario, CANADA   |
|  []    O    |~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~|
|  []   /|\   |Royal Hangman To His Majesty King Bruno The Questionable|
|  []   / \   |~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~|
|  []         |        "ALWAYS ROOM FOR ONE MORE, ME'LORD!"            |
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
... AD&D FLW: "That's its 43rd attack, can I draw my sword now?"

___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20
--- Platinum Xpress/Wildcat! v1.2j
 * Origin: The OFFSPRING BBS! Orleans, Ontario CANADA (613)834-8587 (1:243/95)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 441 of 441
 From : GERRY NORMANDEAU                    1:243/95        .îí 15 .þë 96 16:48
 To   : BOB KLAHN
 Subj : MINBARI AND B5
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Standing at the gallows pole Bob Klahn spat a curse on Owen E. Oulton, accusing
him of MINBARI AND B5!

 OE> I'm perfectly convinced that the Minbari (or at least Dukat and the
 OE> religious caste members of the Grey Council) knew exactly how the
 OE> Terrans would interpret

 OE> Sinclair's crippled fighter so that they could "discover" his Minbari
 OE> soul.  I suspect that Dukat had recieved one of those letters from
 OE> Valen, and that the entire Earth/Minbari war was stage managed.  I
 OE> don't think anything was left to

 BK> That would require Valen planned the war that killed so many. That
 BK> would require a great conspiracy. Which I would never rule out.

 BK> Bob Klahn

Acctually a conspiracy of this type would be known only to a selet few
in the gray council. If they new. Dukat could have been the only one
in the know. This is not dificult if he, as has been said, received
one of valins letters. The rest will follow nateraly because it has already
happened in time and is just following along as it should. The more
people you tell the bigger the chance you change history.


________________________________________________________________________
|  _______    |                   GERRY NORMANDEAU                     |
|  []    |    |   cn754@freenet.carlton.ca / Vanier, Ontario, CANADA   |
|  []    O    |~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~|
|  []   /|\   |Royal Hangman To His Majesty King Bruno The Questionable|
|  []   / \   |~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~|
|  []         |        "ALWAYS ROOM FOR ONE MORE, ME'LORD!"            |
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
... "When I want your opinion, I'll read your entrails."-Smuud

___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20
--- Platinum Xpress/Wildcat! v1.2j
 * Origin: The OFFSPRING BBS! Orleans, Ontario CANADA (613)834-8587 (1:243/95)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 1 of 469
 From : Jeff Hancock                        1:3600/7        .îí 15 .þë 96 20:45
 To   : Michael Harper
 Subj : Japanese SF
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

MH> Very true, Jeff. I'm not a diehard anime fan, but I love DP, and
MH>would dearly love to have those episodes you've got. Problem is

I don't mind, but I have to be honest, you can just as easily go one
step up to the fansubber.  He charges a buck more per tape now, but I
think he's all caught up so there shouldn't be much of a wait either. ;)

MH>get it around to the people I know who're anime addicts; I might be
MH>able to drum up some business for ya.

This is _not_ business.  It's a favor for the fans.  The money is simply
because I can't afford to buy and mail videotapes for free... If I win
the lottery or something then it's open house, until then, I need some
form of compensation. ;)

But I'll send you the list, as well as some URLs where, if you have web
access, you can get in touch with other fansubbers/traders.

-=-
 * Crazy-J * Luckily, Cthulhu was distracted by the Hostess Twinkies.

--- SLMAIL v3.5C  (#1540)
 * Origin: Robotech  -=-Fansubbed anime available upon request-=- (1:3600/7)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 2 of 469
 From : Jeff Hancock                        1:3600/7        .îí 15 .þë 96 20:37
 To   : Leman Russ
 Subj : Japanese SF
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

LR> You're right, there is other Anime that DP, and my local blockbuster

Than "Ghost in the Shell" is what I said.  Incidentally, the feedback on
the ANIME echo varies pretty wildly on that movie, everything from
"must-see classic" to "Been done a thousand times already, stinks".

LR>carries it. They have appleseed, A-ko, gall force  and more. I still

I'll bet all they carry are dubs.  Might be too much to ask that they be
the moderately good dubs.  ;)  Streamline's videos are usually
acceptable in that area, and Viz... well, they could be worse.

I can vouch for the _sub_ of A-ko (the first movie) being great, dunno
how good the voices and dialogue may be in the dub.

LR>wish someone would do a new and tolerable translation of Domimion,
LR>the currentenglish version is horrible, which is a pity given how

Didn't the company sub it as well?  Most of them do that nowadays, even
if they charge $5 or $10 more for it.  It's a ripoff since it costs a
lot less to add subtitles than to pay for voice actors and dub in new
voices, but that's how they do it.
-=-
 * Crazy-J * "I am serious. And stop calling me Shirley!"

--- SLMAIL v3.5C  (#1540)
 * Origin: Robotech  -=-Fansubbed anime available upon request-=- (1:3600/7)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 3 of 469
 From : Darre LuAllen                       1:3637/1        .îí 15 .þë 96 09:08
 To   : Lis Carey
 Subj : SF Ratings
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 On 07-08-96 Lis Carey wrote to Darre Luallen...

 MH>  The problem is the studios. Paramount will attack anything that
 MH>  threatens its cash cow. Warner really doesn't know what they've got

 DL> Yes.  Not only in SF, but in all TV programming, networks and studios
 DL> are in some stupid ratings war.

 LC> That "stupid ratings war" is an essential part of the _business_
 LC> they're
 LC> in. Ratings=advertising dollars=PROFITS. If they're not profitable,

 [...]

 LC> Suggesting that it's childish or stupid for networks and studios to
 LC> focus on ratings shows a profound misunderstanding of what business
 LC> they're in.

 I know exactly what business they are in.  I use to work in broadcasting.
 However, I'm a dreamer.  Ask anyone who knows me.  I believe in the
 spirit of cooperation over competition.  I have no problems with the
 concept of ratings.  I would personally like to hunt down the Neilsons
 (or however you spell it) sometimes.  My problem is with deliberately
 putting similar programs on at the same time (counter-programming).

 DL>From SF to sitcoms even to pro-wrestling,
 DL> the suits are under the mistaken impression that we viewers are going
 DL> to be loyal to ONE station.  That is so stupid.

 LC> No, they're _not_ under the impression that you're going to be
 LC> completely loyal to just _one_ station. HOWEVER, past experience has
 LC> shown them that the _right_ line-up on a given night can keep millions
 LC> of viewers tuned in to one station or network for _that_ entire

 From the viewers side, I often feel as if the networks are playing Satan:
 "Just give us all of your TV watching time and we promise to provide
 you with all you watching desires."  Perhaps "Satan" was too strong.
 Change that to "Slimy Used Car Salesman." :)

 Television execs want people to be loyal to their network/station.  In
 the past, this was possible.  When radio was king and TV was just a child,
 it was morel likely that viewer/listeners would stay on one network.
 Now, most people have channels that they see only when surfing past them,
 if at all.  Frankly, I don't even program the Country Music and religious
 channels into my VCR.

 DL>I have 40 some odd
 DL> channels on my cable box which I pay hard stolen money for.  I'm not
 DL> going to watch just one of them.  Has anyone considered the idea of
 DL> putting their shows on at different times from those of another
 DL> network?

 LC> They _do_ have shows on at different times - LOIS & CLARK is not on at
 LC> the same time as VOYAGER, for instance.:) However, any network with a
 LC> full schedule [which UPN doesn't have yet] INEVITABLY has _other_
 LC> programming on at the same time as other programs as the other
 LC> networks
 LC> there's no way to avoid it. And - do you want a choice of what to
 LC> watch
 LC> when you turn on the tv? Then you don't _want_ them to avoid it.

 I never stated that all shows were on at the same time.  Gratefully, some
 are not opposed by shows of the same type.  And, you're right that I want
 a choice.  However, I'd like to be able to watch all the shows of a certain
 type.  We have some days where all the good SF is on against each other.
 Other nights when the sitcoms go at it.  There's even a night when,
 appropriately, the wrestling shows get to fight it out.  Back to my
 original argument, these networks might find out that a lot of people are
 wrestling fans but not sitcom fans.  Or SF fans but not wrestling fans.
 By providing alternate programming instead of counter-programming, they
 might be able to improve the ratings of their shows.  How many people

 would truly pick _Monday Night Raw_ over ST:Voyager?

 LC> Deliberate counter-programming can sometimes manage to be truly
 LC> obnoxious - but that's what vcrs are for.

 Here, we agree totally.  But what of those unfortunate enough to not
 have a VCR?  Or the nights when three shows are on that I want to
 watch.  Sunday Night in my market puts Highlander, Hercules and

 B5 head to head with each other.  I tape B5, so I have to miss one
 of the other shows.

 DL> Imagine the boost it would give both shows if Forever Night
 DL> had advertised during Kindred and vice versa.  What if Babylon 5
 DL> had such an arrangement with SAAB?

 LC> The very LAST thing that any network or station wants to do is accept
 LC> advertising that _encourages_ viewers to change the channel. They'd

 But they would be advertising on the other station as well.  I guess this
 concept can only work in small environments.  Most people agree that
 gaming and comics are closely related in the fact that a lot of gamers
 are comics readers.  By opening a store which caters to both, you would
 have a good chunk of the market.  However, many stores work on the
 principle of cooperation.  "I'll sell comics and send gamers your way if
 you do the same for comics readers."

 I realize that what I'm proposing is radical.  I really don't expect
 anyone to do it this way.  Common sense rarely rules in business.  That's
 why there is business sense and common sense.

 DL> Now here's a toughie:  If Voyager and DS9 are
 DL> put out by the same people, then why don't they cross advertise? I mean,
 DL> regardless of what network they are on, Paramount would really only help
 DL> itself if both shows did well.  And the typical station carrying DS9
 DL> does not care where the ad money comes from.  The suits are so blind,
 DL> it's stupid.

 LC> You're mistaken - Paramount would be happy to cross-advertise, but the
 LC> local stations care VERY MUCH about accepting advertising that
 LC> encourages viewers to go watch other stations.  You'll see
 LC> cross-advertising only when DS9 is on the Paramount station.

 If I'm wrong, then "oops".  I can't say anything else.  However, why not
 put in some "this week on DS9..." ads on the Voyager feed.  Nevermind, the
 local stations would never stand for it.  Stupid system, IMHO.  I guess
 I'm not a competitive minded person.  Argumentative?  Yes.

 LC> The suits aren't nearly as blind and stupid as you think.

 To quote a friend:  "Television is aptly named a medium because little of
 it is rare or well-done."

                                        Thank you for the great debate,
                                        Darre LuAllen
___
 * OFFLINE 1.56 * I don't suffer from insanity, I enjoy every minute of it.

--- Maximus/2 3.01
 * Origin: Cumberland BBS -TN- V34 (1:3637/1)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 4 of 469
 From : Darre LuAllen                       1:3637/1        .îí 15 .þë 96 09:30
 To   : Bob Klahn
 Subj : B5 Renewed
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 On 07-12-96 Bob Klahn wrote to Darre Luallen...

 BK> I still think _The Twilight Zone_ was the best SF ever, and I still
 BK> think STTOS was too preachy, as is all ST. In spite of which I will
 BK> continue to watch STTOS, or TNG, DS9 etc ad infinitum, and
 BK> _The Outer Limits_ and all the ones you listed and a whole lot that
 BK> isn't as good cause it ain't necessarily bad just because it's not
 BK> number one. Of course I will also watch B5 and try desperately to catch
 BK> the SAAB episodes that I missed.

 "Number one" has never been a big consideration within fandom until
 recently.  When Star Trek went mainstream, a lot of this "My show
 can kick your show's butt" syndrome came into existance.

 BK> In the meantime we can all pray to whatever God, Gods, Goddesses or
 BK> other devine or semidivine beings for more good SF.

 Pray for bad SF too.  Without the bad, we can't appreciate the good.
 We'd also have nothing to poke fun at.  I can remember a time when my
 enclave of friends (whoever they happened to be at the time) would
 huddle around the TV and watch a lousy new show just because it was
 SF/F or within the genre.  I still have fond memories of _Electro Woman
 and Dynagirl_ and many of the other Sid and Marty Kroft live action
 stuff.  Yes, I was a kid.  But I was hungry for _anything_ SF.

 KS>> But in science fiction, we all
 KS>> stand together, protecting and sharing our diverse dreams,

 DL>  I wish this was short enough to be a tagline.  I will print this out,

 BK> Why complain about that being too long for a tagline. I counted at
 BK> least two very good potential taglines in your first paragraph above.
 BK> Look first to the tag-material in your own post before you worry about
 BK> the tagline in your friends.

 Man, this should be in the e-bible.  <Bad televangelist drawl>  Before you
 look to the tag line in your friend's monitor, first remove the tag line
 file from your own monitor.

 I grew up Southern Baptist (Fire and Damnnation sect).  Does it show?

 I have a problem stealing from my own stuff for taglines.  However, I have
 seen a thing or too taken from my messages and used as tags.  It makes
 me feel important.

 BK>  IOW, you done good.

 [shy blush]  Thank you.  I try so hard...

                                          At your Service,
                                          Darre LuAllen
___
 * OFFLINE 1.56 * Gods by the bucketfull; Gods for all occasions! - L. Mollari

--- Maximus/2 3.01
 * Origin: Cumberland BBS -TN- V34 (1:3637/1)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 5 of 469
 From : Darre LuAllen                       1:3637/1        .îí 15 .þë 96 09:44
 To   : Kay Shapero
 Subj : B5 Renewed
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 On 07-11-96 Kay Shapero wrote to Darre LuAllen...

 KS> But in science fiction, we all
 KS> stand together, protecting and sharing our diverse dreams,
 KS> or we do not stand at all.

 DL> I wish this was short enough to be a tagline.  I will print this
 DL> out, and perhaps have it done up as a t-shirt or button.  However,
 DL> I'm lost.  Do I credit this to JMS or KS?

 KS> You credit it to J. Michael Straczynski.  Everything in
 KS> that post after the line "I agree with him.:" was a quote
 KS> of his message.

 That makes it easy.  Thank you.  I'll check into getting it printed up
 as a T-Shirt.  Maybe I can seel a few.  Do you think Joe would mind?

 KS> What I find interesting is that a lot of us "Original
 KS> Trekkers" (well, sorta - I didn't get into the fandom
 KS> until the early '70s so wasn't around for Bjo's letter
 KS> writing campaign) are big B5 fans.  The ones who want to
 KS> fight about it appear to have come in later.

 Born less than a month before the moon landing, I was too young to be
 in Bjo's campaign.  However, I grew up on Trek reruns and other SF.
 A strange bird, I consider myself an older fan and almost an Original
 Trekker (TM, Kay Shapiro).  In fact, I've been a SF fan since I was three
 or four.  My father, God rest his soul, used to watch SF tv and movies
 with me.  I think it is because of him that I love the genre so much.
 [lump in throat... I'll be right back.]

 Sorry, I still miss my father.  Okay, time for a story.  This week-end,
 I went to a very small con (400 or so people in attendance).  Most were
 older fans, since this con caters to such a crowd.  The atmosphere was
 so relaxed.  People talked about shows and books and movies with no
 prejudice.  It was glorious.  Several week ends before, I was at
 Dragon*Con (the monster of the South).  Many of the discussions I
 overheard were very heated.  Wearing one of my many B5 shirts, it was
 the older fans who would stop me and talk about the show (the whole
 reason I wear such things).  The youngsters looked at me with some small
 degree of contempt.  Not all of them, mind you.

 The moral is:  Older fans seem to be more accepting.  Must come from all
 those years of huddling together to in the back of bookstores, uniting
 against all the detractors.  Then again, I could be wrong.

                                              At your Service,
                                              Darre LuAllen
___
 * OFFLINE 1.56 * I drank WHAT!?!


--- Maximus/2 3.01
 * Origin: Cumberland BBS -TN- V34 (1:3637/1)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 6 of 469
 From : Darre LuAllen                       1:3637/1        .îí 15 .þë 96 11:32
 To   : David Johnston
 Subj : B5 Renewed
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 On 07-11-96 David Johnston wrote to Darre Luallen...

 DL> but it is OUR pile of rubble."  Which brings me to my next point: if
 DL> Trek is all about universal understanding and equality, then

 DJ> Is it?  One of the things I noticed about TNG in particular is the
 DJ> absolute lack of comprehension on the part of the rather sheltered
 DJ> characters toward lesser cultures such as our own.
 DJ> In fact, they were frequently downright contemptuous of us.

 DJ> I would say rather that Trek is really about the mystique of limitless
 DJ> frontiers and aspirations.

 Trek has all the divergant races working as equal members of the
 Federation.  In fact, TOS had quite a bit of "equal rights" messages
 just beneath the surface.  The Russian character as a good guy, the first
 interracial kiss on TV, the Chappell/Spock love thing....

 As for other races looking down on humans, they are treated like
 ignorant children who will one day mature and join the "enlightened
 Federation".  Granted, this is a gross simplification of a small
 point of the show.  I agree with your final statement above as well.

                                             At your Service,
                                             Darre LuAllen
___
 * OFFLINE 1.56 * Me am cookie borg- Me assimilate cookie!!

--- Maximus/2 3.01
 * Origin: Cumberland BBS -TN- V34 (1:3637/1)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 7 of 469
 From : Darre LuAllen                       1:3637/1        .îí 15 .þë 96 11:39
 To   : Kay Shapero
 Subj : Genre Music
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 On 07-10-96 Kay Shapero wrote to Darre LuAllen...

 DL> This brings me to a thought (on topic even):  Why is music the
 DL>lost medium for SF/F?  Few bands play music inspired by the genre.

 DL>Few movies or books speculate on the subject.  Perhaps I'm overlooking
 DL>something.

 KS> There's lots of sf/f music around, witness Cat's Laughing, Urban
 KS> Tapestry, Glass Hammer, and various bands present and past have had
 KS> titles from H.P. Lovecraft, Michael Moorcock, and other
 KS> famous writers.  There's also filk, the folk (though not
 KS> necessarily "folky") music of the science fiction/fantasy
 KS> fan community.  I maintain the Frequently Asked Questions
 KS> file of the FILK echo, which includes addresses of a number
 KS> of filk music sellers.  If you're interested let me know
 KS> and I'll email you a copy.  (I'd rather use your internet

 KS> address if you have one - mine's kay.shapero@salata.com)
 KS> Or you can f'req it from StormGate Aerie (1:102/525) as

 KS> filkfaq.zip.

 I guess I've overlooked something.  As for Filk, I've known about that,
 but never really considered it.  I couldn't tell you why.  Just one of
 those things that I never really looked into.  What Filking I've heard,
 I liked.  However, I was never a big fan of Folk, so I avoided the filking,
 perhaps mistakenly.  Perhaps I'll look into the filking at my next con.
 I would like to take a look at the Filk FAQ.  When I get an e-mail address
 again, I'll let you know.  Right now, I'm between addresses.

                                        At your Service,
                                        Darre LuAllen
___
 * OFFLINE 1.56 * Lead me not into temptation.  I can find it myself

--- Maximus/2 3.01
 * Origin: Cumberland BBS -TN- V34 (1:3637/1)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 8 of 469
 From : Bob Klahn                           1:234/2         .òp 16 .þë 96 19:31
 To   : Mark Jones
 Subj : THE SF CHANNEL
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 MJ> On (06 Jul 96) Bob Klahn wrote to Mark Jones...

 BK>>  MJ> exploit loopholes like that one.  TV and radio are "the press" as
 BK>>  MJ> surely as newspapers and magazines are, and should be free of

 BK>>  TV and radio are far more entertainment media than news media. TV and
 BK>>  radio themsleves are the means of communication, not the content.

 MJ>   PLAYBOY is certainly more "entertainment" than news (at least
 MJ> compared to Time or Newsweek), but it still gets first amendment
 MJ> protection, doesn't it?

 It's the content, not the paper, that get's protection. It's freedom of
 expression, btw, when it comes to entertainment.

 MJ>   It doesn't matter whether radio and tv are used for "serious"
 MJ> journalism or purely for entertainment.  They are as much "the press"

 MJ> as any newspaper or magazine (many of which would fail your Serious
 MJ> Communication test anyhow).  And they deserve the same protection.

 I didn't know I had a "serious communication test." I don't recall saying
 the press had to be serious. Laugh-in used to have a lot of political
 commentary, but I don't recall it being serious.

 MJ> (And three federal judges agree with me; they struck down the
 MJ> Communications Decency Act as an unwarranted and unconstitutional
 MJ> infringement of the first amendment recently.)

 Freedom of speech and expression, not necessarily the press. And I happen to
 agree also.

 BK>> Not at all true. The broadcast spectrum is severly limited, and

 ...

 BK>> space. Don't forget, the radio spectrum is international. Nobody

 ...

 BK>> national boundaries. Without government spectrum allotments radio

 ...

 BK>> to run two TV stations on the same channel too close together.
 BK>> And a hundred miles is too close.

 MJ> The amount of land is very limited, too.  And we deal with *that*
 MJ> crisis by means of property rights.  Whoever owns the land gets to
 MJ> decide how its used.  He can use it himself, sell it, or lease it to
 MJ> someone else to use.

 You can take a particular piece of land and fence it in. You can't stop your
 radio broadcast from entering my property. Not as long as it's "broadcast".

 You can fence your property and I can go around it. I can't send radio
 broadcasts around your property to your neighbors. Not normally, that is.

 MJ> "Without government spectrum allotments...." we'd have used the
 MJ> homesteading principle to establish property rights in particular
 MJ> frequencies over particular areas.  That's what was HAPPENING until
 MJ> the feds realized they were about to lose control of this valuable new

 You can't "homestead" on a radio frequency. Try it sometime on the hambands
 or the CB bands. I can set up a transmitter on my property on the same
 frequency and there is nothing you can do about it.

 Before the feds took control of the radio frequencies that is what was
 happening. Anybody who wanted to set up on any frequency he wanted to, and
 nobody could stop him.

 Remember, homesteading only worked because somebody, the govt in fact,
 enforced the rules. For that matter, the only homesteading that went on
 without the govts authorization was the very little by the people who opened
 the country before the government even established a presence. That and the
 ones nobody cared enough to worry about.

 MJ> technology, and hastily created the FCC (well, actually, its
 MJ> predecessor agency) to make sure the *government* wound up owning it
 MJ> all.

 Considering how cheaply the govt hands out radio licenses, owning radio
 frequencies has not been too terribly profitable.

 MJ> And in any case, your argument doesn't explain why the FCC controls
 MJ> what you can watch on cable television.  No spectrum problems there.

 On that point you are correct. The only justification is the monopoly nature
 of cable licensing, which is also being reconsidered regularly. That and
 copyright matters, which I have doubts about also. Cable, however, is not
 broadcast.

 MJ> No, the only justification for government control of radio and
 MJ> television is that "it's always been that way".  Which is a great
 MJ> excuse for a lot of unreasonable government actions and always has
 MJ> abeen.

 That plus the fact that foreign countries may just insist we keep our
 unregulated radio within our own borders. That plus the fact that WJR won't
 even reach Toldeo from Detroit if somebody opens a 100 watt station on the
 same frequency down the street from me.

 MJ> Perhaps we'll be spared government "protection" of FIDONET, at least.

 Fido does not go out over the airwaves, except for satellite feeds, which
 are common carriers.

BOB KLAHN

... Can you park diagonally in a parallel universe?
 * Silver Xpress V4.3P RB10275

--- FLAME v1.1
 * Origin: Telnet toltbbs.com or call 313-854-6001, Boardwatch #55 (1:234/2)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 9 of 469
 From : Bob Klahn                           1:234/2         .òp 16 .þë 96 19:31
 To   : Kay Shapero
 Subj : BY FORCE OF ARMS
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 KS> On <Jul 12 21:43>, Bob Klahn (1:234/2) wrote to Kay Shapero:

 KS>> Excuse me, gentlemen.... A war is a lot of people shooting at each
 KS>> other to achieve an objective.  When one side achieves that objective,
   KS>> whatever the heck it happens to be, that side has "won".  Since the

 BK>> The objective in a war is to defeat the enemy.

 KS> The objective in a war is to achieve what you want, despite whatever
 KS> the other guy throws at you.  Politics achieved by force of arms.

 What I should have said is, "the objective in a war *should be* to defeat
 the enemy." All too often we go for limited objectives.

 BK>> If you want a war where both sides win, that implies both sides
 BK>>are morally equal.

 KS> Usually in a war both sides *are* morally equal.  One side has

 In the past, before a few hundred years ago, that was true.

 KS> something the other side wants so the latter goes after it.  Or there's
 KS> something both sides happen to want and they go after each other for



 KS> it.  Looked at objectively, war is rarely a matter of the good guys vs

 It wasn't that way, it is now. There are good guys now.

 KS> the bad guys.  Tell me - are the Serbs or the Croats the "good guys"?

 The Serbs are the "bad guys", the Muslims are the "Less Bad Guys", the
 Croats are wavering, or seem to be.

 KS> Which side of the various segments of the Hundred Years War were the
 KS> good guys?  In Europe, the provinces of Alsace and Lorraine have a
 KS> history of being forcibly traded between France and Germany. In any of
 KS> the many wars this has involved, is the side attempting to steal these
 KS> provinces the "bad guys", or are the "bad guys" the ones that are
 KS> trying to keep these provinces from being liberated by the other side?

 A few hundred years ago, that may well have been true, it's not today.

 KS> Forget what you see in fiction - real war is almost never a matter of
 KS> good guys vs bad guys though WWII came close.  Always remembering that
 KS> it's the winners who write the history books.

 The American Revolution, The Korean war to a great extent, the Civil War,
 though many southerners will dispute that.

 There are too many people still alive from the 20th century wars for the
 history books to fudge the facts.

 Nothing a dictatorship does is legitimate, because a dictatorship is not
 legitimate.

 If two democracies go to war with each other then you may well have a case
 of two morally equal opponents, but I can't think of an example.

BOB KLAHN

... DO NOT ADJUST YOUR MIND - the fault is with reality.
 * Silver Xpress V4.3P RB10275

--- FLAME v1.1
 * Origin: Telnet toltbbs.com or call 313-854-6001, Boardwatch #55 (1:234/2)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 10 of 469
 From : Bob Klahn                           1:234/2         .òp 16 .þë 96 19:31
 To   : Kay Shapero
 Subj : B5 TECH
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 KS> On <Jul 12 21:43>, Bob Klahn (1:234/2) wrote to Kay Shapero:

 BK>> The proper way to make first contact is to do so with a small,
 BK>>and unarmed group. If the other guy sends a fleet, you send one
 BK>>ship anyway. The first contact group is totally expendable.

 KS> You got it!

 KS> Assuming, of course, that you have enough indication of the other
 KS> group's existance before you bump into them, as happened in the B5
 KS> scenario.  I suspect most first contacts will be unexpected encounters
 KS> between the unprepared who will muddle through as best they can...

 If you are running around with a fleet, and you bump into someone, I'd
 suggest you send out a contact party and pull everybody else back, way back.

 Never make first contact while armed. If it happens, back off.

 Of course, the others will probably be insulted and attack immediately, but
 what the heck.

BOB KLAHN

... "But no one expects the Canadian Inquisition!"
 * Silver Xpress V4.3P RB10275

--- FLAME v1.1
 * Origin: Telnet toltbbs.com or call 313-854-6001, Boardwatch #55 (1:234/2)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 11 of 469
 From : Bob Klahn                           1:234/2         .òp 16 .þë 96 19:31
 To   : Kay Shapero
 Subj : CANCELLED
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 KS> On <Jul 12 21:43>, Bob Klahn (1:234/2) wrote to Nicolai Shapero:

 BK>> I was just coming off third shift in the comm shop at Hickam
 BK>>AFB, Hawaii. Someone had a B&W portable set up in the shop, and we
 BK>>all sat there and watched that step.

 BK>> Ah yes, I remember it well.

 KS> I was in college, though home for the summer and watched it on the
 KS> small B&W that was the family TV at the time.  I remember going outside
 KS> afterwards and looking up at the moon for awhile.

 Ok everybody, we gonna get maudlin we gonna have to have a nostalgia get
 together. Preferably at a con somewhere.

BOB KLAHN

... The sublime and the ridiculous are closely related.
 * Silver Xpress V4.3P RB10275

--- FLAME v1.1
 * Origin: Telnet toltbbs.com or call 313-854-6001, Boardwatch #55 (1:234/2)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 12 of 469
 From : Henry Triplett                      1:106/564       .òp 16 .þë 96 11:50
 To   : JEFF HANCOCK
 Subj : Japanese SF
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

-=> Quoting Jeff Hancock to Henry Triplett <=-

 HT>Are the Media Play stores still open in your area?  In the past
 HT>month, I've noticed that four of their stores in the Houston area
 HT>have closed.  I haven't made it to the far west end of town to see if

 JH> Eeek.  I certainly HOPE so, at forty miles away they're still the
 JH> closest (and cheapest) source I have!  They were still open last time
 JH> I was there a couple of weeks ago....

 HT>the others are still in business.

 JH> I don't know exactly how large an area you're talking about by "the
 JH> Houston area", east end only or not, but it sounds like it could be

Metropolitan area of 3.5 million plus souls with an indecent area in square
miles to match.

 JH> oversaturation of the market.  There are no open stores left in your
 JH> area?

It could be oversaturation.  I don't think there were (are?) more than 6
to 8 Media Play stores in this area.  However, there are many competitors.
Found two more locations closed in the past week.  From the looks of the
former locations, I would say that they pulled out of this area completely.

Henry

... Multitasking allows screwing up several things at once.

___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20 [NR]
--- GEcho 1.00
 * Origin: Eat Flaming Death    Houston Texas    713-447-1927 (1:106/564)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 13 of 469
 From : Henry Triplett                      1:106/564       .òp 16 .þë 96 11:58
 To   : KAY SHAPERO
 Subj : CGI vs Models
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

-=> Quoting Kay Shapero to Henry Triplett <=-

 HT>Even in those cases, the prop will probably end up as a stand-in
 HT>for the
 HT>item(s) that the FX wizards will put in.  I remember seeing a

 KS> Depends.  Something like a light-saber or a ray gun, certainly, but
 KS> sometimes  it's just plain CHEAPER to build a model of a small solid
 KS> object than to CGI it  in.  You don't even have to put in all that much
 KS> detail most of the time - a  prop just has to look good on film or TV.

True.  In a trip to Universal Studios-Hollywood about fifteen years ago,
they had a display of SF effects.  I was amazed at how cheezy some of the
stuff looked in person.  Equally amazing was how simple some of the items
were.

Henry


... "I can come back after you finish dressing." - Draal

___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20 [NR]
--- GEcho 1.00
 * Origin: Eat Flaming Death    Houston Texas    713-447-1927 (1:106/564)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 14 of 469
 From : Leman Russ                          1:2250/7        .òp 16 .þë 96 04:17
 To   : Nicolai Shapero
 Subj : Re: MINBARI AND B5
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 When a ship gets hulled in vacuum, people die unless they're onthe right side
of an auto-airlock. I've quibbled with trek over scenes like the ones in ST2
where the ships hull gets pierced and no blowout happens, so in fairness I
wonder how Gul Dukat died and yet delenn survived.

 Possible explanation as used in Star Fleet Battles: The weapon that hit Gul
Dukats ship caused a power surge which ran thru the ships sytems and hit a
bridge panel, causing it to explode.

>:[

--- DLG Pro v1.0/DLGMail
 * Origin: Sage's Tower - Amiga - (618) 259-1844 (1:2250/7)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 15 of 469
 From : Leman Russ                          1:2250/7        .òp 16 .þë 96 04:21
 To   : Bob Klahn
 Subj : Re: MINBARI AND B5
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 Yes you may be right, using the same "overload" theory Star fleet battles uses.
BTW, if Mimbari ships were "invisible" to terran targeters (Ridiculous notion,
they could be SEEN and thus targeted by visible light seeking systems) how did
the EA ships hit Gul Dukats flagship? On meeting an unknown species the mimbs
ought to have had their defense systems ready, unless they really are
boneheads...

>:[

--- DLG Pro v1.0/DLGMail
 * Origin: Sage's Tower - Amiga - (618) 259-1844 (1:2250/7)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 16 of 469
 From : Don Bach                            1:3632/65       .òp 16 .þë 96 18:48
 To   : Leman Russ
 Subj : but about models...
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 LR>  Threre is one thing to say for models, tho: You can
 LR> hang a model inthe smithsonian, like the original
 LR> enterprise. Try putting a CGI in a museum.

Ahh, but modern museums have multimedia exhibits.  You may find a 3-D projected
hologram of the spacecraft that you can walk around.  The effect can be better
with a CGI model in that you can have realistic movement in the exhibit.

This thread has a lot of deju vu for me.  I am a hydraulic modeler.  At my
former job, we had several models of rivers, lakes, bays and coastlines where we
tested engineering designs.  Most of these models were molded in concrete.  I
worked with a team which developed numerical replacements for some of these
models.  My former employer now has a Cray-equipped supercomputer center to run
the models.

The numerical models have problems, but so do the physical models.  However, the
physical models have problems of their own.  Currently, it is much more costly
to operate a physical model.  On the outskirts of my town, my former employer
operated a physical model of the entire Mississippi River Basin.  It was
originally built by WWII German prisoners.  Due to operating costs, it has been
donated to the city and lays in ruins.  It was too expensive to even make it a
tourist attraction.

The old-timers still swear by the physical models.  If this is any example,
older entertainment modelers will stick with the old modeling techniques until
they are fired or retire.

Don

--- Maximus 3.01
 * Origin: No Regrets, Clinton, MS (601)924-8247 9P-5A (1:3632/65)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 17 of 469
 From : Carson Chittom                      1:3632/65       .òp 16 .þë 96 15:50
 To   : Owen E. Oulton
 Subj : Cancelled
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

BK>  The objective in a war is to defeat the enemy.

OEO>Unless, of course, you're the Duchy of Grand Fenwick...  :-)

        In the immortal words of <insert famous name>: "Huh?"

 * SLMR 2.1a * In this elegant chaos, I stand to one side.--Julian Cope

--- Maximus 3.01
 * Origin: No Regrets, Clinton, MS (601)924-8247 9P-5A (1:3632/65)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 18 of 469
 From : Carson Chittom                      1:3632/65       .òp 16 .þë 96 16:25
 To   : Nicolai Shapero
 Subj : CGI vs Models
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

NS>They showed a new episode [of Sliders] last night.  And it was one of
NS>the weirdest ones to date.  And NO KROMAGS.  Maybe if we
NS>all think real hard, we'll decide that we just IMAGINED
NS>that episode.  And maybe if we're all real lucky, the
NS>writers will take the same tack...

        I take it you didn't particularly care for the Kromags?  I thought
they were kinda neat, if slightly cliche.  I am especially interested in
the Kromags technology, specifically, that mechanism that allows them to
control sliding....

                                 Carson

 * SLMR 2.1a * It is the journey that matters, in the end.--U.K. le Guin

--- Maximus 3.01
 * Origin: No Regrets, Clinton, MS (601)924-8247 9P-5A (1:3632/65)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 19 of 469
 From : Carson Chittom                      1:3632/65       .òp 16 .þë 96 16:02
 To   : Kay Shapero
 Subj : CGI vs Models
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

KS>models - the real reason the Romulans in the original Star
KS>Trek changed to using Klingon style warships was that
KS>someone broke the original Romulan Warbird model and it
KS>was too expensive to build another one...

        *laugh!*

 * SLMR 2.1a * My other computer is a HAL 9000.

--- Maximus 3.01
 * Origin: No Regrets, Clinton, MS (601)924-8247 9P-5A (1:3632/65)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 20 of 469
 From : Carson Chittom                      1:3632/65       .òp 16 .þë 96 16:25
 To   : Brandon Wolgast
 Subj : Asimov book order?
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

BW>Prelude to Foundation
BW>Foundation
BW>Foundation and Empire
BW>Second Foundation
BW>Foundatin's Edge
BW>Foundation and Earth
BW>Forward the Foundation

        My advice is that if you can perform the requisite mental contortions,
read them in the order that they were written.  Just remember when everything
happens.

 * SLMR 2.1a * Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent. - Asimov

--- Maximus 3.01
 * Origin: No Regrets, Clinton, MS (601)924-8247 9P-5A (1:3632/65)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 21 of 469
 From : Carson Chittom                      1:3632/65       .òp 16 .þë 96 16:24
 To   : Kay Shapero
 Subj : B5 Tech
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

BK> The proper way to make first contact is to do so with a small,
BK>and unarmed group. If the other guy sends a fleet, you send one
BK>ship anyway. The first contact group is totally expendable.

KS>You got it!

        I wanna go, I wanna go! *smile*

KS>Assuming, of course, that you have enough indication of the other group's
KS>existance before you bump into them, as happened in the B5
KS>scenario.  I suspect most first contacts will be
KS>unexpected encounters between the unprepared who will
KS>muddle through as best they can...

        "Oh, this is YOUR planet?"

 * SLMR 2.1a * Support your local medical examiner.  Die strangely.

--- Maximus 3.01
 * Origin: No Regrets, Clinton, MS (601)924-8247 9P-5A (1:3632/65)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 22 of 469
 From : Ken Mayes                           1:393/7         .pä 17 .þë 96 09:44
 To   : Michael Harper
 Subj : Re: CGI vs Models
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On Mon 15-Jul-1996  8:11a, Michael Harper said to Kay Shapero:

MH>  KS> - the real reason the Romulans in the original Star Trek changed to
MH>  KS> using Klingon style warships was that someone broke the original
MH>  KS> Romulan Warbird model and it was too expensive to build another
MH> one...

MH>  Eek. Didn't know that. See, ya learn something new every day...

MH>  I'm surprised Jeffries and Rugg didn't just glue it back together; they
MH>  were famous for making something outta damn near nothing. The model
MH>  must've gotten broken real bad...

        Actually, the model wasn't broken. It was misplaced. The original model
and special effects for the bird of prey were done by an outside company (can't
remember their name right off) and they delivered the footage. However, nobody
at that time thought ahead and considered the possibility that the Romulans
might make a second appearance in the show. The show was young and back in those
days most sci fi didn't pay particularly close attention to return villians
(Lost in Space). So the company that did the effects made no special attempts to
preserve the model. It was probably stuck in storage somewhere and forgotten or
simply tossed away as garbage. Nobody really knows.
        The book Star Trek Lives tells about that.



--- CNet/3
 * Origin: The Bard's Tavern Denton, TX (817)243-5110 USR 28.8   (1:393/7)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 23 of 469
 From : Tom Bavis                           1:2613/313      .òp 16 .þë 96 17:57
 To   : Jeff Hancock
 Subj : CANCELLED
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

JH>JW>a short story published in Asimov's called "Think Like a Dinosaur"
JH>JW>which gives the lowdown on what Transporting is probably really like.
JH>
JH>I'd like to know if it gets reprinted in a collection someday.  Author?
JH>-=-

It's in the "Best of the Year" collection from Gardner Dozois that
just came out.  I buy these every year for vacation reading, though
I haven't started this one yet - it's about 5 books away!  James
Patrick Kelly is the author - I also have his novel _Wildlife_,
also unread :(  He has written quite a few stories which have made
the "best" collections.

There's an interesting look at the physics of transporting in Larry
Niven's _All the Myriad Ways_

CBIP _Four Ways to Forgiveness_ by Ursula Le Guin

 * QReader 1.13* * UNREGISTERED EVALUATION VERSION







--- QScan/PCB v1.17b / 01-0406
 * Origin: Knight Moves - Rochester,NY 716-865-2106 (1:2613/313)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 24 of 469
 From : GERRY NORMANDEAU                    1:243/95        .pä 17 .þë 96 02:37
 To   : KAY SHAPERO
 Subj : By Force OF Arms
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Standing at the gallows pole Kay Shapero spat a curse on Bob Klahn, accusing hi
 of By Force OF Arms!

 KS> Excuse me, gentlemen.... A war is a lot of people shooting at each
 KS> other to achieve an objective.  When one side achieves that objective,
 KS>
 KS> whatever the heck it happens to be, that side has "won".  Since the

 KS> The objective in a war is to achieve what you want, despite whatever
 KS> the  other guy throws at you.  Politics achieved by force of arms.

<SNIP>

 KS> Forget what you see in fiction - real war is almost never a matter of
 KS> good  guys vs bad guys though WWII came close.  Always remembering that
 KS> it's the  winners who write the history books.

Have you ever read "ON WAR" by Carl Von Clausewitz by any chance?

________________________________________________________________________
|  _______    |                   GERRY NORMANDEAU                     |
|  []    |    |   cn754@freenet.carlton.ca / Vanier, Ontario, CANADA   |
|  []    O    |~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~|
|  []   /|\   |Royal Hangman To His Majesty King Bruno The Questionable|
|  []   / \   |~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~|
|  []         |        "ALWAYS ROOM FOR ONE MORE, ME'LORD!"            |
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
... AD&D FLW: "I'd rather be eaten by a dragon."

___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20
--- Platinum Xpress/Wildcat! v1.2j
 * Origin: The OFFSPRING BBS! Orleans, Ontario CANADA (613)834-8587 (1:243/95)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 25 of 469
 From : GERRY NORMANDEAU                    1:243/95        .pä 17 .þë 96 02:46
 To   : LIS CAREY
 Subj : CANCELLED
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Standing at the gallows pole Lis Carey spat a curse on Gerry Normandeau, accusi
g him of CANCELLED!

 LC> Gerry, you're overlooking an important point - we already _know_ about
 LC> major wars the Federation has fought or was prepared to fight before
 LC> negotiations averted the war. The Klingons know this. They sincerely
 LC> believe that they are better warriors than Starfleet personnel are,
 LC> but they're not nearly so sure of the proposition that the Empire can
 LC> defeat the Federation - and they know that if they threaten anything
 LC> vital, the Federation will fight.

That will depend upon what the Federation considers vital. So far no
explination has been made as to the volume of trade that has been moving
through the wormholl. It would make a better picture if they even just
dropped a line somwhere in a meeting about the how good or how bad trade
is in the gamma quadrent.


 LC> But there _there_ is where the real difference between them lies, that
 LC> causes the unobservant and thoughtless to describe the Federation as
 LC> "spineless": the Federation tends to avoid escalating to full-scale
 LC> war over actions that are merely provocative rather than genuinely
 LC> threatening.

I see things more in the light of Klingon eyes. Of course a lot of this
argument stemms from Chanselor Gorcon's Sell out of the empire in Number
6. There is a very deep biterness in the klingon empire against the
Federation because of that.

 LC> And economics often is the key, though not quite the way you meant. A
 LC> single assault on DS9, that's driven off and not accompanied by
 LC> attacks elsewhere, is merely provocative; threaten the wormhole, and
 LC> you're threatening what the Federation regards as a "vital interest"
 LC> because of the potential for trade once they deal with the Dominion.

That begs the question, How will they deal with an empire equal to fed tec
and superior in soldier quality. Hell They have better troops than the
Klingons! I am not at all shure why the Dominion is pussy footing around
the feds. They alreasy know all there is to know about the feds. And if by
the end of the problems, the Dominion see the light and become buddy buddy
with the feds, I will scream. I know the show is based on the philosophy
of love and happyness and a warm puppy, but come on! If you make an enemy
and make them swear that they will not stop untill they have destroyed
the feds and everyone else, do it! If the wrighters can't handel the
moral problems they wright about then don't wright about them, or at least
make the enemy more uncertain about the war. There is nothing uncertain
about the Founders will to see it through to the bitter end.

________________________________________________________________________
|  _______    |                   GERRY NORMANDEAU                     |
|  []    |    |   cn754@freenet.carlton.ca / Vanier, Ontario, CANADA   |
|  []    O    |~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~|
|  []   /|\   |Royal Hangman To His Majesty King Bruno The Questionable|
|  []   / \   |~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~|
|  []         |        "ALWAYS ROOM FOR ONE MORE, ME'LORD!"            |
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
... Klingon DOS. "That command or file name has no *honor*!"

___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20
--- Platinum Xpress/Wildcat! v1.2j
 * Origin: The OFFSPRING BBS! Orleans, Ontario CANADA (613)834-8587 (1:243/95)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 26 of 469
 From : Todd Sullivan                       1:202/720.3     .òp 16 .þë 96 19:04
 To   : Bob Klahn
 Subj : CANCELLED
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Reports from the Interior indicate that Bob Klahn leaked the following to me,
re: CANCELLED

 TS>> What always annoyed the daylights out of me was how PC Trek had become,
 TS>> as well as hiding behind the PD everytime something requiring ethics
 TS>> and integrity reared its ugly head.

 BK>  What do personal computers have to do with the ethics problems on
 BK> trek?

I meant Politically Correct.  Ugh:  MS-Multitronics?

Todd Sullivan

... C:\DAMSEL.EXE crosslinked w/DISTRESS.COM--RESCUE? (Y/n)

-*- ASTG 1.9

--- Spot 1.3a Unregistered
 * Origin: Todd's Spot in the Continuum (1:202/720.3)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 27 of 469
 From : Todd Sullivan                       1:202/720.3     .òp 16 .þë 96 19:15
 To   : David Johnston
 Subj : Cancelled
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Reports from the Interior indicate that David Johnston leaked the following to
me, re: Cancelled

 ->> What always annoyed the daylights out of me was how PC Trek had
 ->> become, as well as hiding behind the PD everytime something requiring
 ->> ethics and integrity reared its ugly head.

 DJ> You couldn't stand the way Star Trek avoided racial epithets?

Wrong, bucko.  I didn't say any such thing.

 DJ> Star Trek was always liberal from it's inception, within the limits
 DJ> imposed by network execs.  It started out with a highly placed female
 DJ> character, it had a racially diverse crew to a greater than usual
 DJ> extent, it preached about the virtues of racial equality and amity,
 DJ> and peaceful negotiation.

True, but that didn't stop them from doing what was morally right and ethically
prudent.  TOS:  Kirk would risk his life and career to do what he and his crew
thought was correct.  TNG:  Picard and Co. were ready to allow entire worlds to
die, quoting the Prime Directive.

 DJ> I loathe and despise the lazy habit of using the epithet "PC" to attack
 DJ> anything you dislike.  It's as intellectually bankrupt as calling
 DJ> something "fascist" or "communist".  Perhaps more so, since "PC" is
 DJ> even
 DJ> more of a meaningless buzz word.  Nobody EVER defines just what "PC" is
 DJ> supposed to be.  I assume that you are NOT talking about Star Trek's
 DJ> refusal to use words such as "chink" or "nigger", but I have no idea
 DJ> what you ARE talking about when you call it PC.

I'm referring to the blithe manner in which they used the Directive to justify
not getting involved, just as it's being done now.  "We can't; we'd lose
something" is all it means, IMO.  If you don't risk anything, what good are your
"Higher Moral Imperatives"?  If you're not ready to fight for what you believe
in, who's going to take you seriously?  If you won't get involved, you don't
deserve any benefits thereof.

Todd Sullivan

... Graffiti on Campus:  "638-4532 - You can call, but no promises".

-*- ASTG 1.9

--- Spot 1.3a Unregistered
 * Origin: Todd's Spot in the Continuum (1:202/720.3)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 28 of 469
 From : Glenn Shaheen                       1:3600/7        .îí 15 .þë 96 21:14
 To   : Bob Klahn
 Subj : CANCELLED
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

BK> Doubtful, the Soviet military has proven to be a lot less formidable tha
BK> their numbers suggested.

        Oh.

BK> And if you ignore the fact that the star died in the middle of shooting,
BK> and wasn't replaced.

        They just showed the same scene where he ran up to the cameras
field of view and covered his face. They needed the big name, though.
-=-
 * OLX 2.2 * Bigot: Someone who argues with a liberal.

--- SLMAIL v3.5C  (#1540)
 * Origin: Robotech  -=-Fansubbed anime available upon request-=- (1:3600/7)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 29 of 469
 From : Glenn Shaheen                       1:3600/7        .îí 15 .þë 96 21:21
 To   : Henry Triplett
 Subj : CGI vs Models
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

HT> GS> CGI just looks too much like cartoons. I've seen space videos,
HT> GS> although I wasn't around at the original Moon landing.

HT>Cartoons, eh.  And you say you've seen video shot in space?  Like I told
HT>Kay, you've got your blinders on.  I give up, anyone else care to try?

        It looks cartooney.  Space video looks real. Space video does
not look like CGI.
-=-
 * OLX 2.2 * "Dad, meet my new boyfriend, Rush." - Chelsea Clinton

--- SLMAIL v3.5C  (#1540)
 * Origin: Robotech  -=-Fansubbed anime available upon request-=- (1:3600/7)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 30 of 469
 From : Glenn Shaheen                       1:3600/7        .îí 15 .þë 96 21:24
 To   : Robert Parson
 Subj : PUT UP OR SHUT UP.
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

RP>Are the special effects enhancing the story, or are they telling the stor
RP>While the effects are integral to the story telling process, they are not
RP>the
RP>end all and be all.  If the story is well done I don't care if they're

        Oh, I'm not complaining about the story in B5 now that I started
watching it. I just don't like CGI.

RP>tossing paper airplanes around the producer's living room.

        Sounds like some of my movies.

-=-
 * OLX 2.2 * A fool and his money... Hey! Where's my wallet?!

--- SLMAIL v3.5C  (#1540)
 * Origin: Robotech  -=-Fansubbed anime available upon request-=- (1:3600/7)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 31 of 469
 From : Glenn Shaheen                       1:3600/7        .îí 15 .þë 96 21:28
 To   : Ken Mayes
 Subj : Put up or shut up.
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

KM>        There is no such thing as 'far too smooth' when talking about
KM>movement through a vacuum. You're either moving...or you aren't. There is
KM>almost nil friction in space so once you are moving you will continue to
KM>move...SMOOTHLY...until something stops you.

        I was talking about texture. As far as movement goes, something
that really bothered me a lot when I watched STIII again a year or so
ago was that when the Excelsior's engines went dead it stopped. It
wouldn't have stopped unless it fired it's retros.

KM>        And as far as ships being built from more than one piece, of cour
KM>they would be. That only makes sense. When I design 3-D models in my ray-
KM>tracing programs they too are made from more than one piece. When I build
KM>model kit (granted not on the same level as proffessional FX models, they
KM>too are built from more than piece. When NASA builds a real shuttle it is
KM>made of more than one piece. I don't understand your argument there.

        Maybe now that you see I was complaining about texture you
understand.

-=-
 * OLX 2.2 * Wedding rings: The world's smallest handcuffs.

--- SLMAIL v3.5C  (#1540)
 * Origin: Robotech  -=-Fansubbed anime available upon request-=- (1:3600/7)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 32 of 469
 From : Jeff Hancock                        1:3600/7        .òp 16 .þë 96 19:42
 To   : Nicolai Shapero
 Subj : Japanese SF
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

NS>So?  My point was, and it stands, that there isn't as much Japanese
NS>SF/Anime as there is US SF/Live action to discuss.

Would you be speaking of titles, pure footage in hours, or just based on
availability? ;)

I did a quick run through the Anime Primer Guide and came up with over
39 series or movies that are - or at least *sound* - as though they
qualify as SF.  Including some of the parodies and borderline fantasies
would notch it even higher, of course; and as far as I know the Primer
only includes titles which are available - in some understandable format
- in the U.S., and doesn't even include all of those.

What that comes out to in hours, I don't know; might not even equal the
entire run of TNG.  Availability is certainly much less, and is
probably the prime candidate for lack of discussion - remember how much
traffic was racked up over the incredibly short-lived Space Rangers? ;-)

-=-
 * Crazy-J * When I die, I want to donate my soul to parapsychology.

--- SLMAIL v3.5C  (#1540)
 * Origin: Robotech  -=-Fansubbed anime available upon request-=- (1:3600/7)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 33 of 469
 From : James Walton                        1:129/260       .òp 16 .þë 96 10:17
 To   : Jeff Hancock
 Subj : Novellete
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Re "Think Like A Dinosaur"

 JH> I'd like to know if it gets reprinted in a collection someday.  Author?

Actually it is defined as a "novelette."  TLAD is by James Patrick Kelly.
It is already collected in "The Year's Best Science Fiction" editted by
Gardner Dozois and in "Year's Best SF" editted by David Hartwell.





--- Via Silver Xpress V4.00 SW12427
 * Origin: ConFluence '96:  Return to Mars! (1:129/260)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 34 of 469
 From : Peter McNeill                       1:244/116       .òp 16 .þë 96 23:46
 To   : Todd Sullivan
 Subj : B5 Renewed
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10452
Hello Todd!

Monday July 08 1996 18:13, Todd Sullivan wrote to Peter McNeill:

 BH>>>> hee! Glenn, Todd's so much a Trek fan that he's a Klingon.....

 TS>>> And now, for the $128,000, what would I be in B5?

 PM>> A trash compactor??? <EG>

 TS> <audience groans>

 TS> Oh, dear!  You missed.  Now while we present our next contestant, Mr
 TS> Sebastian will administer the consolation prize...

Oh gawds, Lee press on nails! <grumble grumble>

... My thoughts are illegal in 37 states.
--- GoldED 2.50+
 * Origin: If you want my address, it's #1 at the end of the bar. (1:244/116)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 35 of 469
 From : Peter McNeill                       1:244/116       .òp 16 .þë 96 23:47
 To   : Nicolai Shapero
 Subj : cancelled
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10452
Hello Nicolai!

Tuesday July 09 1996 20:24, Nicolai Shapero wrote to Peter McNeill:

 PM>> Sounds like to me he isn't old enough to remember the Moon
 PM>> landing... htey said
 PM>> how sharp everything was with no blur between light and
 PM>> shadow.....

 NS> I, for one, remember sitting there watching those really bad TV
 NS> pictures from the moon.  "One small step for a man, a giant leap for
 NS> Mankind."

 NS> I was entering my sophmore year at UC Berkeley.  It was a hell of a
 NS> time.

I'm not sure where I was but I do remember being riveted to the tv screen...

... Handwritten on a condom machine; 'This gum tastes funny'
--- GoldED 2.50+
 * Origin: If you want my address, it's #1 at the end of the bar. (1:244/116)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 36 of 469
 From : Bob Klahn                           1:234/2         .pä 17 .þë 96 22:50
 To   : Frank Glover
 Subj : JAPANESE SF
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 FG>
BK>>   That movie played for years and nobody paid it any real attention,
BK>>  till
BK>>   it played in a country where that language was spoken. When the
BK>>  runner
BK>>   gave his warning the whole audience broke down in laughter. It seems
BK>>  what
BK>>   the runner actually said was, "I'm not getting paid enough for this
BK>>  job."
 FG>
 FG>    I gather there was something similar in `The Return of the Jedi,'
 FG>    where the small alien who was flying with Londo Calrisian was saying
 FG>    something that had meaning in one of the Central African languages:
 FG>    "What are you doing over there? All of you come over here."
 FG>
 FG>    Which had nothing to do with Londo's dialog. It got the same
 FG>    reaction in those places....

 There was a thread on one of the Ham or shortwave echos about the radio
 communications in the original Star Wars attack on the death star. Somebody
 thought the background noise sounded like some sort of datatransmission. He
 tape off the radio portions, and started to try to restore them. He found
 theywere scrambled packet radio transmissions. Eventually he had to run them
 through something on the level of a Cray, nice to have a cutting edge
 system, eh? and he restored them. They were ham packet radio transmissions.

BOB KLAHN

... Lead me not to temptation, I can find it myself!
 * Silver Xpress V4.3P RB10275

--- FLAME v1.1
 * Origin: Telnet toltbbs.com or call 313-854-6001, Boardwatch #55 (1:234/2)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 37 of 469
 From : Bob Klahn                           1:234/2         .pä 17 .þë 96 22:50
 To   : Jeff Hancock
 Subj : CANCELLED
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
BK>> The skin of any ship is going to be relatively thin, even an inch
BK>>thick is thin when there is all that empty space around you. The

 JH> I think "relatively" is the key word there.  Relatively, the Earth's
 JH> crust is very thin when you compare it to the huge volume of magma and
 JH> such inside; but people not living next to an active volcano tend not to
 JH> worry too much about it! ;-)

 Which was that fantasy story about the Witch and her husband, the werewolf,
 who had to capture a geniee, and did it when they discovered he was
 terrified of water? They pointed out to him all the water on earth, and that
 his own body was 98% water. He withdrew into his bottle in a catatonic
 state. Now, that's a phobia.

 Somebody, I forget who, pointed out that people who fear nuclear power
 should consider the fact that a nuclear reactor of unimaginable size and
 power is operating just a few miles under our feet.

BK>> JH>even bare skin, but bare *everything*.  And if you happen to be

BK>> I had never thought of it that way, but it does sound depraved.

 JH> That's me.

 Conceited....

BK>>if you died at one end and came to life at the other, you were dying
BK>>and being recreated all the time anyway.

 JH> ...Well, that's ONE way to think of it.  Although I'd prefer to believe
 JH> that we were more than just the equivalent of universal cels in some
 JH> giant film of the cosmos and that the projector could fail at any
 JH> moment.

 Speaking of paranoia...

BK>> How about a star traveler's guild of claustrophile/agoraphobics who
BK>>can travel between the stars, but can't bear to leave their ships?

 JH> So who repairs them?  If they can't stand the outside, then they
 JH> couldn't even teleoperate robots.

 Maybe pack some claustrophobics in cold sleep, oh the complications.

BOB KLAHN

... Believe those who are seeking the truth; doubt those who find it.
 * Silver Xpress V4.3P RB10275

--- FLAME v1.1
 * Origin: Telnet toltbbs.com or call 313-854-6001, Boardwatch #55 (1:234/2)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 38 of 469
 From : Bob Klahn                           1:234/2         .pä 17 .þë 96 22:50
 To   : Kay Shapero
 Subj : CANCELLED
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 KS> Figures...  At least they didn't decide to create the entire thing,
 KS> unlike something Nicolai got caught in at Berkeley.  It seems like
 KS> someone, somewhere, wanted to create a riot so they waited until a lot
 KS> of students came out of class into Sproul plaza, headed for lunch, then
 KS> blocked off the exits and

 Now that's one I never thought of.

 BK>> Fiction: That scene was played out in "Bill The Galactic Hero",

 KS> I've read it, and it was, indeed, a hoot.  Especially since I'm rather
 KS> fond of Starship Troopers.  :->

 That's an important point. Those of us who *LIKE* Starship Troupers find
 BTGH enjoyable.

BOB KLAHN

... A Magick Book that sticks with you:  The VELCRONOMICON
 * Silver Xpress V4.3P RB10275

--- FLAME v1.1
 * Origin: Telnet toltbbs.com or call 313-854-6001, Boardwatch #55 (1:234/2)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 39 of 469
 From : Bob Klahn                           1:234/2         .pä 17 .þë 96 22:50
 To   : Kay Shapero
 Subj : SITCOM STARS
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 KS> On <Jul 13 12:49>, Bob Klahn (1:234/2) wrote to Kay Shapero:

 KS>> I've never SEEN Night Court.  Thus I've no idea who was on it.

 BK>> You missed one of the funniest shows on TV. And you missed Brent
 BK>>Spiners appearances also.

 KS> Sounds like it. Ah well, maybe I'll catch it in syndication sometime.
 KS> Pretentious as it sounds, I really *don't* watch much TV - I count
 KS> myself lucky that I've seen Babylon 5 from the TV movie on.  And I owe
 KS> that to fannish rumor.

 Who's got time for TV? Fido eats up all this time.... I make time for B5.

BOB KLAHN

... (A)bort, (R)etry, (W)hack Monitor?
 * Silver Xpress V4.3P RB10275

--- FLAME v1.1
 * Origin: Telnet toltbbs.com or call 313-854-6001, Boardwatch #55 (1:234/2)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 40 of 469
 From : Bob Klahn                           1:234/2         .pä 17 .þë 96 22:50
 To   : David Little
 Subj : CGI VS MODELS
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 HT>>> ... Psst!  I heard David was socializing with Kai Winn!!
 DL>>         Nowhere do the prophets say "NO hanky panky!"
 BK>> Tagline material!
 DL>> ... "Henry, don't give in to hate - that leads to the dark side."
 BK>> ... Come over to the dark side, David, we have much better medical

  DL> ... FREE TOASTER IF YOU JOIN THE DARKSIDE!

 Added to my "darkside" collection.

BOB KLAHN

... FREE TOASTER IF YOU JOIN THE DARKSIDE!
 * Silver Xpress V4.3P RB10275

--- FLAME v1.1
 * Origin: Telnet toltbbs.com or call 313-854-6001, Boardwatch #55 (1:234/2)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 41 of 469
 From : Darre LuAllen                       1:3637/1        .pä 17 .þë 96 09:01
 To   : Jeff Hancock
 Subj : Japanese SF
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 On 07-12-96 Jeff Hancock wrote to Darre Luallen...

 JH> Anyway, I've offered to copy some of the noncommercial
 JH> fansubbed
 DL> Really???  Let's talk...  Pro'ly better to take it to netmail.

 JH> Will shoot you a copy.

 Got it.  Right now, I'm mulling it over.  Let you know by snail mail
 shortly.

 DL> I'd like to consider myself a casual anime viewer.  I might become a

 JH> So they exist!  ;)

 Remember, it's "Hollywood Virgins" that are a myth.

 DL> die hard fan, but I just don't have the time.  Recently I discovered

 JH> Interesting.  I would have thought money, considering the prices some
 JH> people charge, but...

 Money was a consideration.  Time more so as I tend to spread myself
 pretty thin.  In fact, right now I'm keeping up on three echoes on
 FIDO, writing several stories, playing in three RPG campaigns (running
 two of them), fencing, choreographing a fencing demo, helping write a
 computer program with a friend, keeping up with several TV shows and
 hanging out at the local comics shop.  This is not to mention the other
 things I'm s'pose to be doing.

 JH> What I generally do is watch a half hour a night while working out on
 JH> the treadmill... more if it's exciting enough so I don't notice the
 JH> time pass, less or none if I'm too pooped that day.

 Sounds like a good bribe for one's self.  I tend to catch up on my movies
 during lunch in much the same fashion.

 DL>_Bubblegum Crisis_ and _Bubblegum Crash_.  Unfortunately, the tape I

 JH> I've been meaning to try Crisis some time; but I hear Crash was an
 JH> inferior sequel.  Your opinion?

 Crisis was good.  I loved the animation and characters, but the story
 of the first one was a little thin.  I've only managed to see the first
 and I think they were setting up for the rest with it.  As for Crash,
 the animation and story were about equal, with the story being just
 slightly more equal.  Yes, it did seem to be inferior.  The animation
 didn't seem to have the depth and richness of Crisis.  Kinda like the
 makers had years for Crisis but only a few months for Crash.

 DL> Perhaps the most amazing anime I ever saw was a tape a friend had.

 JH> Oh?  Distributed by U.S. fans? ;)

 Good question.  Zathras wish had answer fitting such question.  Perhaps,
 will one day.

 DL>Seems there was a convention in Japan and the con staff asked for a
 DL>fan created, anime opening scene.  The stuff produced by high school
 DL>kids (or their equivalent) rivaled what the professionals at Disney
 DL>turn out. The semi-pro works were better than anything I've seen in
 DL>the States. Kinda makes me miss living on Okinawa.

 JH> Wow.  I've seen a good bit of high-class artwork in anime, but none of
 JH> it that I know of was non-professional in that sense.  Of course, that
 JH> was probably their pitch to get hired by an anime company. ;-)

 Maybe.  IIRC, it was some sort of contest, but I don't remember the
 prizes.  BTW, did you ever see the music video for Matthew Sweet's
 "Girlfriend"?  If not, the video was anime.  If so, do you know if it
 was from a specific movie or created just for the video?

                                              At your Service,
                                              Darre LuAllen
___
 * OFFLINE 1.56 * ADVENTURE: The land between entertainment and panic.

--- Maximus/2 3.01
 * Origin: Cumberland BBS -TN- V34 (1:3637/1)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 42 of 469
 From : Darre LuAllen                       1:3637/1        .pä 17 .þë 96 09:09
 To   : Bob Klahn
 Subj : Scheduling Sf Shows
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 On 07-13-96 Bob Klahn wrote to Darre Luallen...

 DL>> are in some stupid ratings war.  From SF to sitcoms even to
 DL>> pro-wrestling, the suits are under the mistaken impression that we
 DL>> viewers are going to be loyal to ONE station.  That is so stupid.
 DL>   [...]
 DL>> ad money comes from.  The suits are so blind, it's stupid.

 BK>  Reminds me of the "Burger Wars", when Burger King and McDonald's were
 BK>  going at it hot and heavy, going at each other with thinly disguised
 BK>  identification. The upshot was, both chains made more money.

 Don't get me wrong.  Some competition can be good.  If these shows

 were competing in the quality arena, then it would be good. Case in
 point: "Did you see the fighter sequence on B5 last night?  We've
 got to top that.  Do we have any stories with battles coming up?"

 This would mean that the shows are pushing each other to get better.
 It would be best if it remained friendly and the stories continued
 as normal.  IOW, the competition should not become a simple
 one-ups-manship affair.

 When the shows start trying to lure away other shows' views by invoking
 viewer loyalty or by using "Sweeps Tricks", then no show benefits in the
 long run.  Has anyone ever taken a poll about the viewership habits of
 fans?  I'd be interested in seeing the results.

                                                At your Service,
                                                Darre LuAllen
___
 * OFFLINE 1.56 * I have a mind like a steel...uh...thingamajig...

--- Maximus/2 3.01
 * Origin: Cumberland BBS -TN- V34 (1:3637/1)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 43 of 469
 From : Darre LuAllen                       1:3637/1        .pä 17 .þë 96 09:29
 To   : Michael Harper
 Subj : Scheduling SF shows
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 On 07-12-96 Michael Harper wrote to Darre LuAllen...

 DL> Networks should realize that 60 Minutes is as entrenched in the
 DL> American mentality as the Pledge of Allegieance (and about as
 DL> outdated).  If they would settle for what numbers they can get on
 DL> Sunday night and sell ad space cheap, then more show would survive
 DL> the "death slot".  Lois and Clark seems to do quite well in that
 DL> neighborhood.

 MH> Yeah, but Lois and Clark isn't in the death slot proper; it's
 MH> opposite Murder, She Wrote, and has a built-in audience already.
 MH> Space, an entirely new show, being slotted against 60M was in a
 MH> much less tenable position. I can see Fox's point, though; put
 MH> it against 60M and rake in the viewers who don't watch the news.

 Forgot about L&C being on later.  As for SAAB, I can see the mentality
 involved in the decision.  If they would have settled for less numbers....

 DL> With DS9 and B5,  fans have almost formed two armed camps.

 MH>  The annoying thing is, it's totally unnecessary. There's no law that
 MH>  says you can't watch and enjoy both shows.

 I have problems with Voyager, so I don't watch it as often.  I'm never
 around to see DS9, so I don't get to see it as much as I'd like to.
 That does not mean that I have to bust on the two shows.  In fact, I
 usually enjoy watching them.

 DL> Excuse my ignorance, but is Barbara Hambly a writer?

 MH> And a very good one, too. She's done several Trek novels, a couple of
 MH> dynamite fantasy trilogies, some crosstime sf, some vampire tales...
 MH> she's very talented, and a delight to be around. Has a wonderful
 MH> sense of humor.

 I remembered her right after I sent the message.  I have been meaning
 to find a new author to try.  I think you have made up my mind for me.

 DL> movies.  Why are the networks so adamant about acting like sovereign
 DL> nations?

 MH> There is where I run dry. I have no idea why the networks do the idiot
 MH> things they do. I worked in television for a short time, and came to
 MH> the conclusion that people in that business are insane.

 Apt conclusion.  I'm still reeling of the cancellation of _Brisco
 County, Jr._ some years ago.  However, thanks to TNT, I now have
 them all on tape.  Entertaining, funny, written with intelligence.
 What more could a show have going for it.

 DL> BTW, are you in Memphis proper or the surrounding area?  Originally
 DL> from the area or a transplant?

 MH>  Born and raised. Educated to the point of spontaneous combustion. I
 MH>  live in Midtown, specifically Cooper-Young.

 Originally from the Nashville area myself.  Now, I'm stuck up here in
 the Cookeville area.  Is there any organized fandom in your neck of
 the woods?  Here we have a college sponsored SF club that is a
 hit or miss affair.

                                                At your Service,
                                                Darre LuAllen
___
 * OFFLINE 1.56 * This is even better than a DuckTales episode, Brain!

--- Maximus/2 3.01
 * Origin: Cumberland BBS -TN- V34 (1:3637/1)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 44 of 469
 From : Lis Carey                           1:101/230       .òp 16 .þë 96 23:48
 To   : Jeff Hancock
 Subj : CANCELLED             1/2
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
JH>LC>Ah, but the fact that you are inattentive enough, when watching DS9,
JH>LC>to forget critical information after it's presented, doesn't mean
JH>LC>that it hasn't been presented.

JH>Let's just say things never seem to coherently jell into a specific
JH>timeline, even though I watch it casually, not disinterestedly.

But you watch it once, while watching B5 repeatedly, and going over it
in detail with others, thus ensuring that you remember things about it
that you're going to _forget_ about DS9.

JH>LC>JH>things heat up it's not really a Klingon leading the charge.
JH>LC>The Klingons don't want to fight a war on two fronts, and _right
JH>LC>now_, they are concentrating on the Cardassians - relatively high
JH>LC>reward for relatively little effort, compared to all-out war with the

JH>Still?  Are they still actively at war with them, or have the
JH>Cardassians gotten them to a standoff?

Yes, they're still concentrating on the Cardassians. That's why Dukat
has become a terrorist, and how Worf managed to get caught in the
Klingons' attack on the medical-supply ships.

<snip>

JH>LC>JH>LC>claimed that the commander of DSN [Ben Sisko] had the same
JH>LC>JH>LC>initials as the commanders of B5 [Jeffrey Sinclair and John
JH>LC>JH>I have no idea of what you're trying to say with this.

JH>LC>JMS once posted in the B5 newsgroup a list of the allegedly give-away
JH>LC>similarities between DS9 and B5, which "proved" that Berman and

JH>Were any of the other listed items obvious as jokes?

No.

JH>LC>varyingly-successful attempts at humor, pointed out that JMS was
JH>LC>apparently confused as to the spelling of "Benjamin".

JH>Did he ever state later if it was a joke or not?

When challenged on it, he concentrated on other points that had been
challenged, where there was more room for argument [such as alleged
similarities between the wormhole and jumpgates - both of which will
take you to distant locations, even though one's artificial and the
other's manufactured, and one will let you go anywhere, and the other is
transport only between two fixed points, and so forth].

One is forced to conclude that it was a genuine mistake, not a joke.

JH>Could have been a
JH>mental misfire, thinking of Jake Sisko, or of the "J" sound in
JH>"Benjamin".

Possibly, but it doesn't improve the credibility of his claim to have
found all this _evidence_ that DS9 is a copy of B5.

When you include little details like that, it's important to get them
right.

<snip>

JH>LC>Yes. He was developed as being genuinely and deeply loyal to the

JH>Elements I had generally forgotten about, but remember at least parts of
JH>with your prompting.

See?

JH>LC>has kept him from spending the time he'd like with his son, and who

JH>However, I can't recall his son.  Was he shown on the series, or only
JH>mentioned in dialogue?

Mentioned in dialog, several times, but never seen onscreen. The fact
that he never gets to see his son is sort of the point.

JH>LC>You are forgetting. We got lots of hints about the Obsidian Order's
JH>LC>secret build-up for the invasion of the Dominion, the draining-off of

JH>Lots?  I remember the teaser episode with Odo, nothing more.

You should, if nothing else, remember the episode where Tom Riker stole
the Defiant - and joint Federation/Cardassian pursuit of him stumbled
upon the Obsidian Order's secret shipyards. That was a blatant one;
there were other suggestions that something more underhanded than usual
was going on, too.

JH>LC>that the Cardassian Empire was critically weakened by those losses.

JH>By the by, the Romulans were also involved... so why haven't the
JH>Klingons moved against them as well?

One enemy at a time. Voluntarily fighting a two-front war is the act of
a fool; Hitler learned this, and Sheridan has been trying to explain it
to some of the lesser powers in B5.

JH>LC>There was plenty of build-up and gradual development. This doesn't
JH>LC>mean you have to like the show, but they're _not_ doing things in the
JH>LC>slapdash manner you choose to believe.

JH>I don't "choose to believe", this is what I saw and remember, or not.
JH>If I watch it on a regular basis and am unable to combine the story
JH>elements into a cohesive whole over a period of time, how does that
JH>equate with "choosing" what to believe in?

You watch B5 much more carefully than DS9, which is fine - but then
attribute all differences in what you notice about the shows to the
_shows_ and not to your own style of watching them. You state as flat,
incontestable fact what is in reality only your own, sometimes
inaccurate, impressions derived from watching DS9 in a much more casual
manner than you watch B5.

I watch them in a much more similar manner - I don't tape episodes
unless I'm not going to be home when the episode is on, and watch every
episode once, plus many but not all of the reruns. WHILE I'm watching an
episode, I concentrate totally on the episode.

With similar levels of attention, the level of quality looks a lot more
similar [though not the same; each has an edge in _some things_, but B5
seems to have the edge overall in quality]; and the storylines and
details of the shows look a lot more _different_.

JH>I would appreciate it if you could possibly engage in debate without
JH>consistantly painting your opponent as a mindless snivelling fanatic
JH>through your own brand of spin-doctoring his messages.

Jeff, you should take a look at some of your own spin-doctoring.

JH>LC>The style is very different from B5, but that's because it's [brace
JH>LC>yourself] a different show, made by different people, with a

JH>And again, you attack with a polarized viewpoint, as if I was condemning
JH>DS9 for not being "just like" B5.

But you _were_ condemning DS9, pretty emphatically, with highly specific
criticisms, many of which were inaccurate, and several of which were
essentially criticisms of the _style_ rather than the substance. Your
position, I THINK, can fairly be summed up as:

A)DS9 is a copy of B5

B)DS9 is vastly inferior to B5

>>> Continued to next message

 * OLX 2.1 TD * When I say "meow" this, way, it means "open the door."

--- FLAME v1.0
 * Origin: Withouta Net - Drop In Anytime! - 617/846-5416 (1:101/230)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 45 of 469
 From : Lis Carey                           1:101/230       .òp 16 .þë 96 23:48
 To   : Jeff Hancock
 Subj : CANCELLED             2/2
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
>>> Continued from previous message

And your specifics in support of these positions have been, mostly,
ranging from somewhat to wildly inaccurate, and, by your own statements,
based on quite superficial watching of DS9, compared to the intensity
and attention you give to B5. A lot of what you're complaining of as
_absent_ from DS9, is there, but requires more attention than you've
given it to notice.

It requires more attention to notice it on B5 than you seem to have
given DS9, too, but with B5, you're _giving_ it that attention.

 * OLX 2.1 TD * When I say "meow" this, way, it means "open the door."

--- FLAME v1.0
 * Origin: Withouta Net - Drop In Anytime! - 617/846-5416 (1:101/230)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 46 of 469
 From : Lis Carey                           1:101/230       .pä 17 .þë 96 00:06
 To   : Jeff Hancock
 Subj : CANCELLED
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
JH>LC>JH>And, of course, they weren't worried about attacking DS9 since
JH>LC>JH>they knew the Feds wouldn't start a war over it. ;)

JH>LC>In Real Life(tm), Jeff, single incidents _rarely_ cause a full-blown
JH>LC>war, if the attackers didn't capture what they attacked, unless both

JH>That was not the point I was trying to make, and you know it.

Um, well, no. That seemed to me to be the point you were making.

JH>LC>sides are _ready_ to commit to full-blown war. Note that the same

JH>It only takes one side to start a war, does it not?  If the other side
JH>is not ready, it either gets ready, or it surrenders, or it gets
JH>clobbered.

Starting a war between two major powers is rarely one-sided. Logically,
it doesn't take two to make war, but in practice, between major powers
usually it does. They spend years, dancing around each other, saying do
we REALLY want to do this, and usually don't actually commit to
full-scale war until both sides are convinced they don't have an
alternative.

JH>Point is, the Klingons know that if they make enough peace noises they
JH>can pretty much be sure of getting the Federation to keep from going on
JH>the warpath.  They can take drastic action without worrying overmuch
JH>about the threat of war; while the reverse does not hold true.

It depends on the "drastic action" they take. _So far_, they haven't
threatened anything truly vital to the Federation, although the teaser
ending of the last episode indicates that they have finally done so, or
are about to.

A single assault on DS9, that was beaten off, does count for much in the
grand scheme of things, in a culture that's more concerned with
pragmatic results than with the Klingons' version of "honor".

JH>LC>The Cardassians were no longer a threat; the Klingons, if allowed to
JH>LC>threat. Strip away the make-nice talk, and that's the realpolitik

JH>Then that makes more sense.

JH>LC>Aside from that, the Federation has always understood the value of
JH>LC>the long-term investment in a willingness to give "humanitarian" aid
JH>LC>to almost anyone. And many of the Feds are also completely sincere

JH>Even their enemies.  _Especially_ their enemies.  ;)  Yes, I know the
JH>real-world parallels...  but even so, first you help someone and cause
JH>them to become more of a threat, then you fight them to keep them from
JH>becoming more of a threat.  Uh huh.

We kept peace in Europe for forty years, in large part by being willing
& able to rush massive humanitarian aid in after the war. More
impressively, we've had forty years and counting of peace with Japan,
despite the fact that the USA and Japan have real, fundamental,
extremely thorny conflicts of interest in the Pacific.

In practice, humanitarian aid to our enemies has always come _after_
we've fought them, and has never left us _worse_ off in relation to them
than we were before the aid. Whereas the European-preferred policy of
severely punishing Germany for WWI was a major contributor to causing
WWII.

In the Trek universe, again, the Federation is giving aid to the
Cardassians _after_ having fought them, and earlier, gave aid to the
Klingons _after_ many years of conflict with them, and despite some
rough spots in that instance, nevertheless had decades of peace and
alliance with the Klingons before things broke down again.

JH>LC>JH>Yes, to the point where one wishes they would get on with it
JH>LC>They _have_ been acting on it, Jeff. They just haven't been using
JH>LC>enough pyrotechnics to get your attention, is all. The Romulans &
JH>LC>Cardassians were tricked into making a suicidal attack in Dominion

JH>Yes, I _know_ that already.  That's one.

JH>LC> now the Klingons and the Federation are on the verge of all-out war.

JH>And so on up to five, that we know of, and are assuming the Changelings
JH>were behind.  The Klingons might well have attacked the Cardassians
JH>without any prompting, thus the Changelings would only have credit for
JH>the reduction in their forces.

Um, I think I supplied, if not proof, at least _evidence_ for Changeling
involvement in each incident I mentioned. Onscreen evidence, I mean, not
speculation. [We really don't know exactly when Gowron was replaced by
the Changeling; or if, even if that replacement came later, the
Changeling had already been in place as another Klingon.]


 * OLX 2.1 TD * Cat \kat\ Small four-legged fur-bearing extortionist.

--- FLAME v1.0
 * Origin: Withouta Net - Drop In Anytime! - 617/846-5416 (1:101/230)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 47 of 469
 From : Frank Glover                        1:2613/477      .pä 17 .þë 96 20:41
 To   : Darre LuAllen
 Subj : Re: B5 Renewed
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

DL>   huddle around the TV and watch a lousy new show just because it was
DL>   SF/F or within the genre.  I still have fond memories of _Electro
DL>  Woman
DL>   and Dynagirl_ and many of the other Sid and Marty Kroft live action
DL>   stuff.  Yes, I was a kid.  But I was hungry for _anything_ SF.

   I can understand that. I saw Star Trek: The Motion Picture 5 times at the
theater, because, for all its failings, it was still the first fresh Trek in 10
years. (And it was the first movie I paid to see more than once since 2001.)

   Frank


--- QuickBBS 2.81 GoldBase (Zeta-2.0b)
 * Origin: The Matrix Data Bank BBS, Rochester, Ny (1:2613/477)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 48 of 469
 From : Henry Triplett                      1:106/564       .åò 18 .þë 96 09:34
 To   : MICHAEL HARPER
 Subj : CGI vs Models
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

-=> Quoting Michael Harper to Henry Triplett <=-

 MH> Not me, Henry. Glenn's got his mind made up; nothing we can do is
 MH> gonna change it. If he thinks CGI looks fake, let him. I'll still take
 MH> CGI over models; much more flexible. But I'm through arguing a
 MH> hopeless case.

I know the feeling.  I wonder if he and all the other worshippers of models
will be singing the same tune when the re-mastered versions of the Star
Wars trilogy come out next year?

Henry



... What did tornados sound like before freight trains were invented?

___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20 [NR]
--- GEcho 1.00
 * Origin: Eat Flaming Death    Houston Texas    713-447-1927 (1:106/564)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 49 of 469
 From : Frank Swarbrick                     1:104/825       .òp 16 .þë 96 21:35
 To   : Owen E. Oulton
 Subj : Scheduling SF shows
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12  92-0022
On 07-14-96  14:30, shipwrecked and comatose, Owen E. Oulton said:

 MH>  Yeah, but Lois and Clark isn't in the death slot proper; it's opposite
 MH>  Murder, She Wrote, and has a built-in audience already. Space, an
 MH>  entirely new show, being slotted against 60M was in a much less tenable
 MH>  position. I can see Fox's point, though; put it against 60M and rake in
 MH>  the viewers who don't watch the news.

 OEO> S:A&B also had a very big problem that's going to hurt The X-Files,
 OEO> which is going into that time slot now.  It's right after FOX Sunday
 OEO> Football, which almost always runs overtime, making *ANY* show in that
 OEO> slot a real stone bitch to catch, especially if you're taping.  You
 OEO> have no way of knowing if the game is going to run overtime, and if so
 OEO> by how much.  The average (off the top of my head) delay due to
 OEO> football for S:A&B last year was about 15 minutes.

Actually, The X-Files is not in the same slot.  It's going to be two
hours later.  Of course, this doesn't mean they won't be affected by
over-long football games.  Yech!

I must be lucky, being in the Mountain Time Zone, because I only
remember SAAB being delayed once, and it was only 10 minutes or so.
Of course, it was one day where I recorded it, so I missed the last 10
minutes.  Argh!

        Frank

... I just want to be left alone.  Is that so wrooooong?
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12
 * Origin: The Bailey Information Exchange BBS, 28.8k v.fc  (1:104/825.0)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 50 of 469
 From : David Johnston                      1:342/14        .åò 18 .þë 96 10:20
 To   : Todd Sullivan
 Subj : Cancelled
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
-> ->> What always annoyed the daylights out of me was how PC Trek had
-> ->> become, as well as hiding behind the PD everytime something
-> requiring ->> ethics and integrity reared its ugly head.
-> DJ> You couldn't stand the way Star Trek avoided racial epithets?
-> Wrong, bucko.  I didn't say any such thing.

That's what PC is, an exaggerated desire to avoid anything which might
considered bigoted or chauvinistic.


-> DJ> supposed to be.  I assume that you are NOT talking about Star
-> Trek's DJ> refusal to use words such as "chink" or "nigger", but I
-> have no idea DJ> what you ARE talking about when you call it PC.

-> I'm referring to the blithe manner in which they used the Directive
-> to justify not getting involved, just as it's being done now.  "We
-> can't; we'd lose

I tend to agree that the Prime Directive became a rather implausibly
exaggerated "ideal", and even worse, such a sweeping interpretation
substantially restricted the range of story concepts available.

--- PCBoard (R) v15.21/100
 * Origin: Freddy's Place - Edm. AB - 33.6K (403) 413-3460 (1:342/14)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 51 of 469
 From : Frank Glover                        1:2613/477      .åò 18 .þë 96 22:36
 To   : Bob Klahn
 Subj : Re: JAPANESE SF
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

BK>   tape off the radio portions, and started to try to restore them. He
BK>  found
BK>   theywere scrambled packet radio transmissions. Eventually he had to
BK>  run them
BK>   through something on the level of a Cray, nice to have a cutting
BK>  edge
BK>   system, eh? and he restored them. They were ham packet radio
BK>  transmissions.

   Cool! As an occasional packeteer myself, (using a PK-232) I can appreciate
the difficulty. The pilot's communications sounded to me (though they may not
have been) single sideband transmissions that were ever so slightly
off-tuned....

   And in Star Trek: The Motion Picture, I always thought it would've been more
realistic if they'd had some data tones among all the voice comms in the scene
where we first see comm station Episilon-9.

   You may have heard that in `Space Seed,' a CQ was used as the Botany Bay's
beacon, rather than the SOS the writer originally wanted, because even in the
context of an entertainment program, NBC didn't want to put itself in the
position of broadcasting an SOS over its affiliate stations....

   Frank  KA2WQA


--- QuickBBS 2.81 GoldBase (Zeta-2.0b)
 * Origin: The Matrix Data Bank BBS, Rochester, Ny (1:2613/477)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 52 of 469
 From : Frank Glover                        1:2613/477      .åò 18 .þë 96 22:45
 To   : Bob Klahn
 Subj : Re: CANCELLED
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

BK>   Somebody, I forget who, pointed out that people who fear nuclear
BK>  power
BK>   should consider the fact that a nuclear reactor of unimaginable size
BK>  and
BK>   power is operating just a few miles under our feet.

   And a stupendously larger one 93 million miles away. (And unshielded, too!
How dare such a design be approved!?)

   Frank


--- QuickBBS 2.81 GoldBase (Zeta-2.0b)
 * Origin: The Matrix Data Bank BBS, Rochester, Ny (1:2613/477)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 53 of 469
 From : Kay Shapero                         1:102/524       .pä 17 .þë 96 09:45
 To   : Frank Glover
 Subj : Re: CANCELLED
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Jul 15 22:10>, Frank Glover (1:2613/477) wrote to Kay Shapero:

 FG>   I was watching CBS coverage of it (I remember Walter Cronkheit
 FG>almost talked over Neil's first words), and somewhere in the back
 FG>of my mind was this tiny hope that maybe extraterrestrials think
 FG>along lines similar to those in `2001:A Space Odyssey,' and now
 FG>that we can reach another world, they would  reveal
 FG>themselves.....
 FG>
 FG>   Oh well, wrong again.
 FG>

Viking's landing on Mars did a certain amount of damage to a theory of mine
about UFOs, namely that about 100 years from now some Cal Techie is going to
invent a time machine and start playing with it. :->  But the fact that we did
NOT see a jeep drive up, spacesuited inhabitants leap out, and approach the
lander, screwdriver in hand, suggests that either this is not the case or the
paracops are on the job.  :->

If there is a threshold, most likely it's somewhere around the invention of some
way of reaching your destination in less time than it would take for a photon to
get there.  Or even more likely it's something we haven't even thought of yet,
somewhere the other side of the technological singularity.

--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 54 of 469
 From : Kay Shapero                         1:102/524       .pä 17 .þë 96 09:50
 To   : Jeff Hancock
 Subj : CANCELLED
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Jul 14 17:22>, Jeff Hancock (1:3600/7) wrote to Bob Klahn:

BK> JH>even bare skin, but bare *everything*.  And if you happen to be
BK> I had never thought of it that way, but it does sound depraved.

 JH>That's me.

I missed that.  Streaking the Universe!!!! I like it! :->

--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 55 of 469
 From : GERRY NORMANDEAU                    1:243/95        .pä 17 .þë 96 16:39
 To   : KEN MAYES
 Subj : cancelled
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Standing at the gallows pole Ken Mayes spat a curse on Gerry Normandeau, accusi
g him of cancelled!

KM> On Sun 30-Jun-1996 10:07p, Gerry Normandeau said to Glenn Shaheen:


 KM> After reading your message, I went back and watched Way of the
 KM> Warrior again. The Klingon boarding party was fairly small because they
 KM> were beaming in through small openings in the sheilds. Remember O'Brian
 KM> stated that they had knocked out two (and only two) of DS9's sheild
 KM> generators. It's like trying to force sand through the small opening in
 KM> an hour glass. It'll fit, but it's a slow process.

Sorry but you missed the point about assault tacctics. It makes no
difference how small the holes in the shields are, make them bigger.
The station is beeing attacked by, my last count of the ships on screen,
at least 50+ warships. The station has no chance of survival. And even
if the boarding parties are stoped, that is the time to start beaming
over gravetic mines and slagging the whole station.

 KM> Secondly, the Klingons were NOT armed only with Batleths. Most
 KM> of them carried their Batleths in one hand for close order combat and
 KM> their disruptor pistols/rifles in the other. There was quite a bit of

To be encoumbered in a fight with a batleth is just as bad as having only
a batlth. Fighting hand to hand is the most innefficient way to take a
position against an enemy with nothing but ranged weapons. Arm all
boarding parties with heavy range weapons and shoot anything that moves!
Also send sappers and engineers to cause even greater damage by locating
shield generators or power lines and cutting them.

 KM> cross fire if you'll remember. Would you accuse a marine that was
 KM> forced to fight with his bayonet of going into battle with only his
 KM> bayonet? I think not. Watch the episode again and you'll see that you
 KM> were just plain wrong. Third, six starships were coming. That's
 KM> right. But how many of the Klingon ships had already been destroyed by
 KM> DS9? Kira stated that eight Klingon ships were destroyed less than

Sorry but the Klingons out number the feds in this battle. The Klingon
empire will gladly trade a couple of Old Katinga cruisers for Fed ships
killed. The feds might hurt the fleet but the wormhole will belong to
the Empire when reenforcements arrive. And as I said before all the
Klingons would have to do is mine the hole and say Ok feds this is now
property of the empire make peace now or BOOOMM no more wormhole.

KM> thirty seconds into the battle. Off hand, I'd say they were getting
 KM> their teeth kicked in and they knew it. Six more Starships rushing to
 KM> join the fray only added icing on the cake.

And what makes you think that was all the ship they had? If it comes down
to the nitty gritty they just have to move more fleets from the cardasian
area and rienforce the wormhole. The hole is a much bigger priority prize.
The Klingons will hold the hole and then negothiate with the feds on who
uses at what price. This will be the perfect revenge against the feds for
destroying the empire with this sufocating Peace Treaty (Spit!).

________________________________________________________________________
|  _______    |                   GERRY NORMANDEAU                     |
|  []    |    |   cn754@freenet.carlton.ca / Vanier, Ontario, CANADA   |
|  []    O    |~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~|
|  []   /|\   |Royal Hangman To His Majesty King Bruno The Questionable|
|  []   / \   |~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~|
|  []         |        "ALWAYS ROOM FOR ONE MORE, ME'LORD!"            |
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
... "What I'm looking for is a blessing that's NOT in disguise."

___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20
--- Platinum Xpress/Wildcat! v1.2j
 * Origin: The OFFSPRING BBS! Orleans, Ontario CANADA (613)834-8587 (1:243/95)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 56 of 469
 From : Owen E. Oulton                      1:243/45        .åò 18 .þë 96 14:09
 To   : Carson Chittom
 Subj : Cancelled
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

BK>  The objective in a war is to defeat the enemy.

OEO>Unless, of course, you're the Duchy of Grand Fenwick...  :-)

 CC>         In the immortal words of <insert famous name>: "Huh?"

There's a wonderful little novel out there called The Mouse That Roared.  It
involves a tiny nation called the Duchy of Grand Fenwick, which is strapped for
cash and decides to declare war on the United States.  They figure that they'll
lose easily, and get all sorts of war reparations, as Germany did after WWII.
The only thing is, they win...

The book was made into a movie in the 1959, which starred Peter Sellers in a
multiple role.  There were at least two more novels, The Mouse On Wall Street
and The Mouse On The Moon (not quite sure of the last title).

CFN, O

--- Maximus 2.01wb
 * Origin: Pandora's Box, Ottawa, Ont. 613-829-1209 (1:243/45)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 57 of 469
 From : Todd Sullivan                       1:202/720.3     .pä 17 .þë 96 18:57
 To   : Kay Shapero
 Subj : Bad TV!  BAD!  BAD!
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Reports from the Interior indicate that Kay Shapero leaked the following to me,
re: B5 Renewed

 KS> Voyage to See What's on the Bottom?  At least parts of it were
 KS> hilarious, intentionally or otherwise...  Remember UFO?  One of my
 KS> treasured posessions is a photobutton of one of the flying saucers from
 KS> that show, with the wires holding it up *clearly* visible...  I'm told
 KS> it was originally supposed to be done with marionettes like Fireball
 KS> XL-5, which may explain a few things.  :->

Well, it was Gerry Anderson, Kay. <G>  I've had a chance to see it again, and I
can't believe how cheesey it looks <mumble mumble> years later.

Todd Sullivan

... Ain't solitary, just stopped working with humans.

-*- ASTG 1.9

--- Spot 1.3a Unregistered
 * Origin: Todd's Spot in the Continuum (1:202/720.3)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 58 of 469
 From : Jeff Hancock                        1:3600/7        .pä 17 .þë 96 20:47
 To   : Leman Russ
 Subj : Japanese SF
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

LR> JH> So what have you seen, and what would you recommend?
LR> I think "Ghost in the shell" is worth watching...

So you keep saying, but that kind of cyberpunk really isn't my bag of
hammers.  If I see it in the store I'll at least look over the
packaging blurbs.

Besides that?
-=-
 * Crazy-J * "Being Ranma wouldn't be half bad."

--- SLMAIL v3.5C  (#1540)
 * Origin: Robotech  -=-Fansubbed anime available upon request-=- (1:3600/7)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 59 of 469
 From : Jeff Hancock                        1:3600/7        .pä 17 .þë 96 21:02
 To   : Kay Shapero
 Subj : Japanese SF
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

KS>Try the Lupin III movie, Mystery of Mamo, if you can find it.  It's a
KS>mad- scientist epic and vastly entertaining.

It's sitting on my shelf, but it's the Streamline version, so I don't
know how much it's been edited.  Haven't seen it yet, but I'm down to
eleven tapes, four of them in stages of partial viewing.

KS>Unfortunately I think what you did do, at least with that last post,
KS>was make a lot of not necessarily accurate assumptions about
KS>everybody else and then berate them for it.  Poor tactics.

I berated?  Challenged, perhaps, to encourage people to respond to the
contrary, but actually berated? ;)

And I've been pondering the situation and I still think that it was at
least partially right, at least in regards to the situation here.  What
gets discussed the most?  Shows that are on TV, that one can watch for
free or close to it, where all one has to do is make time to see it.
Anime you have to go out and buy, or mail requests to fansubbers, or go
visit a convention or club meeting, or whatever.  The only things you
can watch "for free" are hacked up old dubs with much of the juicy bits,
of plot, dialogue, or skin, removed.  And there's not many of those out
there TO watch, especially depending on your market.

If there was an SF/Fantasy series shown weekly that had good voice
dubbing and a compelling plot that wasn't in reruns or very old, then
there would likely be more conversation as to what was happening and how
it would turn out.  As it is, there's no real simultanety to viewing
like there is with a weekly show, so individual fans tend to have much
less in common in that respect.

When I look at something like Sailor Moon, which started out as a series
for preteen Japanese girls, was hacked up and dumbed down with horrible
voice acting (from what little I've been able to hear anyway), and ended
up being shown in an exclusive syndicated market at ungodly hours in the
morning and STILL manages to acquire a -relatively- bogglingly large
following, much of which is far outside the intended audience...  It
makes me wonder what a truly *good* series could do if adapted *well*.

On the other hand, Pinky and the Brain was not half bad and managed to
accumulate about a million Neilsen-estimated viewers a week; but a
million is still bottom-of-the-barrel in the big picture and it was
canned.  And ultimately, one doesn't want the genre to suffer through
pandering to the dreaded Average American, whomever he/she is, so maybe
it's better to remain in obscure exclusivity?

But it sure would be nice to discuss things with people who knew about
what you did and not much more, rather than a mix between the "Seen that
already" and "Never heard of it" crowd you generally find... unless
you're supplying the anime at a periodic group viewing. ;)

-=-
 * Crazy-J * Luckily, Cthulhu was distracted by the Hostess Twinkies.

--- SLMAIL v3.5C  (#1540)
 * Origin: Robotech  -=-Fansubbed anime available upon request-=- (1:3600/7)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 60 of 469
 From : Jeff Hancock                        1:3600/7        .pä 17 .þë 96 21:04
 To   : Kay Shapero
 Subj : Japanese SF
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

KS> JH> * Crazy-J * "Ensign C-ko?"  "She ate her own food, Jim..."
KS>ROFL!!!!!  (What a terrible way to go... :->)

That's what happens when you're dropped so hard on the head at such a
young age. <g>

Has anyone ever catalogued all the references, jokes, and in-jokes in
that movie?  There must be dozens, if not hundreds.
-=-
 * Crazy-J * "Swirly-flying" missiles furnished by WWWA.

--- SLMAIL v3.5C  (#1540)
 * Origin: Robotech  -=-Fansubbed anime available upon request-=- (1:3600/7)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 61 of 469
 From : Jeff Hancock                        1:3600/7        .pä 17 .þë 96 21:09
 To   : Brion Lienhart
 Subj : Japanese SF
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

BL>BL>Gall Force is pretty good.
BL> -JH>Still...  All the guys wiped out?  Sounds like a feminist

BL>There never were any men. They reproduce by cloning tanks or
BL>something like that, it's mentioned in the 3rd film (I think).

Hmmmm.

\
|Gall Force
|
|Description:
|  A great war between two interstellar powers: the Paranoid and
|  the Solenoid.  Among all the destruction, the crew of the
|  Starleaf are told to go to Chaos.  The Starleaf manages to
|  escape the destruction, but, ultimately, all but one of the
|  survivors are killed in true "10 little indians" tradition.
|  Parts 2 and 3 of the series deals with a revived Lufy and
|  another group of Solenoids 10 years later.
|US Release by: US Manga Corps (subtitled)
|Rating: RECOMMENDED
/

No, that wasn't the description I was thinking of...

\
|GALL FORCE:
|     A series of (7?) SF OAVs about cute girls with guns and space
|     ships. All the men of the race died in the everlasting war with
|     the Evil Paranoids, and there's nothing left but sexy young women
|     who reproduce by cloning. But, they have a plan... Part 1 licensed
|     by US Manga Corp for subtitled distribution in US.
/

THAT'S the one.  So this listing is wrong, then?

BL>Oh yeah. There is lots of good SF in it, as well as Mecha action and
BL>space battles.

Sounds like it.  I'll keep an eye out.  <squish>

BL> -JH>Baywatch notwithstanding.
BL>much because in the ones that I've seen, the plots are so stupid.

Baywatch has plots?
-=-
 * Crazy-J * "You can have the octopus, I hate the way it looks!"-Mink

--- SLMAIL v3.5C  (#1540)
 * Origin: Robotech  -=-Fansubbed anime available upon request-=- (1:3600/7)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 62 of 469
 From : Jeff Hancock                        1:3600/7        .pä 17 .þë 96 21:14
 To   : Brion Lienhart
 Subj : The sf channel
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

BL> -JH>or scratches it and she gets extremely annoyed and blows them
BL>Yup. Just about every episode.

Evidently they believe the viewers have a short attention span; or they
just know that's what everyone's waiting to see. ;)

BL> -JH>"Project A-ko", which I finally saw the other night.
BL>I've had that for years.

See, now maybe if someone had pushed me into anime years ago... ;)

BL> I've got all five episodes that I know about.

Think I've heard that the quality diminished from the first sequel on.
Do you concur?
-=-
 * Crazy-J * Pogo Stick:  What happen when Pogo mess wi' Crazy Glue.

--- SLMAIL v3.5C  (#1540)
 * Origin: Robotech  -=-Fansubbed anime available upon request-=- (1:3600/7)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 63 of 469
 From : Bill Hedrick                        1:282/26        .åò 18 .þë 96 10:58
 To   : Michael Harper
 Subj : Re: Cgi Vs Models
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
In a message dated 07-15-96 MICHAEL HARPER wrote to HENRY TRIPLETT:

 MH>  Not me, Henry. Glenn's got his mind made up; nothing we can do is
 MH> gonna  change it. If he thinks CGI looks fake, let him. I'll still
 MH> take CGI  over models; much more flexible. But I'm through arguing a
 MH> hopeless  case.

Actually if it's _good_ CGI it looks indistinguishable from a model
Voyager uses a lot of _CGI_ (or so I'm told) try to pick it out from
model-work....

 -> Alice4Mac 2.4 E QWK Eval:22Mar96

--- RA 1.11+/GEcho 1.02+
 * Origin: Science Fiction BBS * Rosemount, MN * (612)423-7358 (1:282/26)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 64 of 469
 From : HTom Trites                         1:282/62        .åò 18 .þë 96 14:58
 To   : Bob Klahn
 Subj : CANCELLED
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 KS> On <Jul 12 21:43>, Bob Klahn (1:234/2) wrote to Nicolai Shapero:

 BK>> I was just coming off third shift in the comm shop at Hickam
 BK>>AFB, Hawaii. Someone had a B&W portable set up in the shop, and we
 BK>>all sat there and watched that step.

 BK>> Ah yes, I remember it well.

 KS> I was in college, though home for the summer and watched it on the
 KS> small B&W that was the family TV at the time.  I
 KS> remember going outside
 KS> afterwards and looking up at the moon for awhile.

I remember it too.  I was in USMC boot camp; one of the DI's brought a
little Sony and about three hundred of us sat in the sand and watched
and cheered.



--- Maximus 3.01
 * Origin: SpareCom: Internet email and Fidonet (1:282/62)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 65 of 469
 From : Bob Klahn                           1:234/2         .åò 18 .þë 96 23:32
 To   : Michael Harper
 Subj : B5 RENEWED
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 MH>  This is annoying. I chalk it up to writers who really don't know
 MH>  anything about Amerind culture.

 Absolutely correct. It's insulting to the audience, and insulting to the
 culture.

 They treat Amerind culture as if it were all the same all over the country,
 and as if the pop culture version was the reality. It's a 'New Age' version
 of an ancient tradition, and a corruption of it.

 They exploit it, they don't respect it.

BOB KLAHN

... I used to pray for miracles, now I just pray for comfort.   <DJJ
 * Silver Xpress V4.3P RB10275

--- FLAME v1.1
 * Origin: Telnet toltbbs.com or call 313-854-6001, Boardwatch #55 (1:234/2)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 66 of 469
 From : Bob Klahn                           1:234/2         .åò 18 .þë 96 23:32
 To   : Brandon Wolgast
 Subj : ASIMOV BOOK ORDER?
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 Read them in the order they were written. Forget the late in life attempt to
 reorganize them to say something significant. Pick any series and read it
 seperately from the others.

 BW> The Complete Robot*
 BW> Robot Dreams
 BW> The Caves of Steel
 BW> The Naked Sun
 BW> The Robots of Dawn
 BW> Robots and Empire

 BW> The Currents of Space
 BW> The Stars, Like Dust
 BW> Pebble in the Sky

 BW> Prelude to Foundation
 BW> Foundation              1
 BW> Foundation and Empire   2
 BW> Second Foundation       3
 BW> Foundation's Edge
 BW> Foundation and Earth

 Read The foundation series in this order. Note I do not give an order for
 the others. Read them after the first three. The last one, at least the last
 I read suffered from the attempt to be significant syndrome. But you will
 probably have to read it just to complete the series.

BOB KLAHN

... Kill em all, let God sort em out... Debate echo motto.
 * Silver Xpress V4.3P RB10275

--- FLAME v1.1
 * Origin: Telnet toltbbs.com or call 313-854-6001, Boardwatch #55 (1:234/2)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 67 of 469
 From : Bob Klahn                           1:234/2         .ÿò 19 .þë 96 00:17
 To   : Frank Glover
 Subj : BUT ABOUT MODELS...
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
LR>>   BUT, the new technique tookthe 3d image made my the NMR scans and
LR>>  uses a pair of hipower UV lasers to solidify a special resin int oan
LR>>  exact duplicate of the deformed skull. Basically there was a vat of

 FG>    I first read of this technology in a science fact article in Analog,
 FG>    but I've since seen it in action on CNN's `Science & Technology
 FG>    Week' a year or so ago....

 I first ran across it in "Electronics Now." I don't know how I missed it in
 Analog, unless I just didn't feel like reading anything factual.

BOB KLAHN

... Words mean things...
 * Silver Xpress V4.3P RB10275

--- FLAME v1.1
 * Origin: Telnet toltbbs.com or call 313-854-6001, Boardwatch #55 (1:234/2)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 68 of 469
 From : Bob Klahn                           1:234/2         .ÿò 19 .þë 96 00:17
 To   : Frank Glover
 Subj : B5 RENEWED
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 FG>    Also reminds me of the tagline you may have seen: "I remember when
 FG>    Saturns were rockets, not cars...."

 I remember when Saturn was a planet, not a rocket.

BOB KLAHN

... Cry Bother and let slip the Poohs of war!
 * Silver Xpress V4.3P RB10275

--- FLAME v1.1
 * Origin: Telnet toltbbs.com or call 313-854-6001, Boardwatch #55 (1:234/2)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 69 of 469
 From : Bob Klahn                           1:234/2         .ÿò 19 .þë 96 00:17
 To   : Owen E. Oulton
 Subj : CANCELLED
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 BK>>  The objective in a war is to defeat the enemy.

 OEO> Unless, of course, you're the Duchy of Grand Fenwick...  :-)

 Ah, but what an execellent wine.

BOB KLAHN

... What a long, strange trip it's been!
 * Silver Xpress V4.3P RB10275

--- FLAME v1.1
 * Origin: Telnet toltbbs.com or call 313-854-6001, Boardwatch #55 (1:234/2)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 70 of 469
 From : Bob Klahn                           1:234/2         .ÿò 19 .þë 96 00:17
 To   : David Johnston
 Subj : CANCELLED
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 DJ> I loathe and despise the lazy habit of using the epithet "PC" to attack

 Thank you, you said it quite well.

BOB KLAHN

... If you can't elucidate, eschew obfuscatory interlocutions!
 * Silver Xpress V4.3P RB10275

--- FLAME v1.1
 * Origin: Telnet toltbbs.com or call 313-854-6001, Boardwatch #55 (1:234/2)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 71 of 469
 From : Don Bach                            1:3632/65       .pä 17 .þë 96 19:31
 To   : Glenn Shaheen
 Subj : CANCELLED
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 GS>         It's my opinion that people as a whole are getting more and
 GS> more stupid as we invent more machines to think for them.

Actually, we just have more people being tested.  In Jackson, the public school
system has mainly minority students who weren't able to be in the system prior
to the mid '60s.  The white students either live in better public school
districts in the suburbs or are sent to private school.  The Jackson Public
School System in the largest in the state.  If you base scores on this district
alone, we are doing very, very badly.

Welfare also makes people less apt to think or act.  This is the most terrible
thing our current society had begat.  We now have generations dependent and no
want to become productive citizens.

I don't think mechanization has any effect on the smartness of people.  There
are many other factors.

This is certainly contrary to the utopian universe of ST.  It is no wonder why a
lot of SF these days is dark.

Don

--- Maximus 3.01
 * Origin: No Regrets, Clinton, MS (601)924-8247 9P-5A (1:3632/65)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 72 of 469
 From : David Little                        1:106/7315      .åò 18 .þë 96 09:22
 To   : Bob Klahn
 Subj : The Dark Side
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
-=< Bob Klahn used the Jedi Mind Trick on me!>=-

 HT>>> ... Psst!  I heard David was socializing with Kai Winn!!
 DL>>         Nowhere do the prophets say "NO hanky panky!"
 BK>> Tagline material!
 DL>> ... "Henry, don't give in to hate - that leads to the dark side."
 BK>> ... Come over to the dark side, David, we have much better medical
 DL> ... FREE TOASTER IF YOU JOIN THE DARKSIDE!
 BK> Added to my "darkside" collection.

        Try this one...

                                        -=The DoLittle 8-)=-


... "Lord Vader,you WILL show me some respect" Palpatine "Pfblt" Vader
--- Blue Wave/DOS v2.30 [NR]
 * Origin: The Wizards Realm BBS 1-713-946-7315 1:106/7315 (1:106/7315)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 73 of 469
 From : Darre LuAllen                       1:3637/1        .åò 18 .þë 96 15:36
 To   : Frank Glover
 Subj : Re: B5 Renewed
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 On 07-17-96 Frank Glover wrote to Darre LuAllen...

 DL>  huddle around the TV and watch a lousy new show just because it was
 DL>  SF/F or within the genre.  I still have fond memories of _Electro
 DL>  Woman
 DL>  and Dynagirl_ and many of the other Sid and Marty Kroft live action
 DL>  stuff.  Yes, I was a kid.  But I was hungry for _anything_ SF.

 FG> I can understand that. I saw Star Trek: The Motion Picture 5 times
 FG> at the theater, because, for all its failings, it was still the

 FG> first fresh Trek in 10 years. (And it was the first movie
 FG> I paid to see more than once since 2001.)

 With so much SF available, much of it of good quality, people
 have lost their appreciation for good SF Cheez.  I remember getting
 excited over _Megaforce_, _Spacehunter..._ and _Krull_.  Cheezy?
 Yes.  But they were trying.

                                        At your Service,
                                        Darre LuAllen
___
 * OFFLINE 1.56 * "Benjamin, why is Kira talking to an invisible person called
Al?"

--- Maximus/2 3.01
 * Origin: Cumberland BBS -TN- V34 (1:3637/1)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 74 of 469
 From : Leman Russ                          1:2250/7        .åò 18 .þë 96 04:49
 To   : Gerry Normandeau
 Subj : Re: MINBARI AND B5
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 GN> Um. Excuse me, but Gul Dukat is a Cardasian and the former comander
 GN> of Star Trek: Deep Space 9.

 I Knooooooow that, of course. I was just doing a tweak.

>:[

--- DLG Pro v1.0/DLGMail
 * Origin: Sage's Tower - Amiga - (618) 259-1844 (1:2250/7)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 75 of 469
 From : Leman Russ                          1:2250/7        .åò 18 .þë 96 04:51
 To   : Jeff Hancock
 Subj : Re: Japanese SF
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 I've got the dominion subbed and its great. I also have the translated version
from england and it sucks.

 The best dub job I've seen was "robot carnival" and "Vampire hunter D", both
ofwhich are in my library courtesy of channel TBS' night flix.

>:[

--- DLG Pro v1.0/DLGMail
 * Origin: Sage's Tower - Amiga - (618) 259-1844 (1:2250/7)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 76 of 469
 From : Leman Russ                          1:2250/7        .åò 18 .þë 96 05:12
 To   : Brion Lienhart
 Subj : Re: Japanese SF
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 If you guys aretalking "gall force" I agree that it's pretty damn good, with
all the elements in place. Some of my favorite mecha were in gallforce,
especially the bronz-D. The battles were wild and wonderful, and the plots and
characters were top notch, anime the anime should be.

>:[

--- DLG Pro v1.0/DLGMail
 * Origin: Sage's Tower - Amiga - (618) 259-1844 (1:2250/7)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 77 of 469
 From : Frank Swarbrick                     1:104/825       .pä 17 .þë 96 23:09
 To   : Nicolai Shapero
 Subj : Sitcom stars
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12  92-0022
On 07-15-96  05:58, shipwrecked and comatose, Nicolai Shapero said:

 NS> On <Jul 12 08:15>, Myra I Fox (1:123/10) wrote to Michael Harper:

 MI>That is how I recognized him in INDEPENDENCE DAY, by that accent!
 MI><g>

 NS> Looked to me like he was playing a younger Dr. Sung for ID4...

From the stuff I've seen him in, Spiner seems to have two "voices."
What I call his "Data" voice and his "Lore" voice.  He used his "Lore"
voice throughout ID4.  Actually, he seems to use his "Lore" voice in
most of his non-TNG stuff, though I don't think it's actually his
natural voice...

        Frank

... No one can hear when you're Screaming in Digital!
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12
 * Origin: The Bailey Information Exchange BBS, 28.8k v.fc  (1:104/825.0)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 78 of 469
 From : Brion Lienhart                      1:213/700.2     .ÿò 19 .þë 96 07:27
 To   : Owen E. Oulton
 Subj : Cancelled
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On Thu Jul 18, Owen E. Oulton said to Carson Chittom:

 -OEO>The book was made into a movie in the 1959, which starred Peter
 -OEO>Sellers in a multiple role.  There were at least two more novels, The
 -OEO>Mouse On Wall Street and The Mouse On The Moon (not quite sure of the
 -OEO>last title).

There was another one published in the late 70s _The Mouse That Saved The World_
about the oil crisis.




--- QM v1.31
 * Origin: Ministry of Peace - Carson City, NV (1:213/700.2)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 79 of 469
 From : Brion Lienhart                      1:213/700.2     .ÿò 19 .þë 96 07:32
 To   : Jeff Hancock
 Subj : Japanese SF
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On Wed Jul 17, Jeff Hancock said to Brion Lienhart:

 -JH>\
 -JH>|GALL FORCE:
 -JH>|     A series of (7?) SF OAVs about cute girls with guns and space
 -JH>|     ships. All the men of the race died in the everlasting war with
 -JH>|     the Evil Paranoids, and there's nothing left but sexy young
 -JH>women
 -JH>|     who reproduce by cloning. But, they have a plan... Part 1
 -JH>licensed
 -JH>|     by US Manga Corp for subtitled distribution in US.
 -JH>/

 -JH>THAT'S the one.  So this listing is wrong, then?

Fairly wrong. From what I can tell, there never were any men. The later ones,
Rhea Gall Force, and Earth Chapters 1,2,3 take place on our Earth, where there
are men, but none of them are in the main group.

BL>Oh yeah. There is lots of good SF in it, as well as Mecha action and
BL>space battles.

BL> -JH>"Project A-ko", which I finally saw the other night.
BL>I've had that for years.

 -JH>See, now maybe if someone had pushed me into anime years ago... ;)

BL> I've got all five episodes that I know about.

 -JH>Think I've heard that the quality diminished from the first sequel on.
 -JH>Do you concur?

Weellll, sort of. They weren't as original, but they are pretty good.


--- QM v1.31
 * Origin: Ministry of Peace - Carson City, NV (1:213/700.2)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 80 of 469
 From : Frank Glover                        1:2613/477      .ÿò 19 .þë 96 18:03
 To   : Bob Klahn
 Subj : Re: BUT ABOUT MODELS...
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

BK>   FG>    I first read of this technology in a science fact article in
BK>  Analog,
BK>   FG>    but I've since seen it in action on CNN's `Science &
BK>  Technology
BK>   FG>    Week' a year or so ago....
BK>
BK>   I first ran across it in "Electronics Now." I don't know how I
BK>  missed it in
BK>   Analog, unless I just didn't feel like reading anything factual.

   If you're interested in looking it up, (now that I did, it was quite a bit
more than a year ago) it was `Manufacturing Magic' by Arlan Andrews in the
September 1992 issue.

   I will very often buy a copy of Analog just for having an interesting
non-fiction article, but this one I had purchased for the cover story,
`Assemblers of Infinity' (since published as a novel) because of its
nanotechnology content.

   Interestingly, my first exposure to nanotech was a Drexler non-fiction
article in the mid-december, 1987 issue. That one was *given* to me by a friend
who was finished with it, and thought the character (human, not alien!) in the
cover art resembled me. (Harry Turtledoves' `Last Favor,' a good story, BTW, for
those who have mixed feelings about Trek's Prime Directive.)

   Serendipity, like lightning, can strike more than once....

   Frank


--- QuickBBS 2.81 GoldBase (Zeta-2.0b)
 * Origin: The Matrix Data Bank BBS, Rochester, Ny (1:2613/477)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 81 of 469
 From : Frank Glover                        1:2613/477      .ÿò 19 .þë 96 18:18
 To   : Kay Shapero
 Subj : Re: CANCELLED
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

KS>  If there is a threshold, most likely it's somewhere around the
KS>  invention of some way of reaching your destination in less time than
KS>  it would take for a photon to get there.  Or even more likely it's
KS>  something we haven't even thought of yet, somewhere the other side of
KS>  the technological singularity.

   Strongly inclined to agree with this. It may be why there's no radio
frequency evidence of ET's. Perhaps the average civilization's time between the
first use of radio, and the discovery of `something' better and/or faster (which
may also be part of a post-singularity society's knowledge), that nobody tries
very hard to intentionally carry out interstellar communication by radio (or
other electromagnetic wavelengths). Before they do it very much (only once, so
far, have we intentionally beamed signals into space for ET reception*), they
move on to other methods/interests, so there's not much of it in the Universe at
any given time.

   It's my hope to live long enough to be proven right or wrong on this one,
too.

   Frank


   *Those interested should look up Science News, November 23, 1974, p. 325. The
signal was beamed at M-13, the globular star cluster in the Hercules
constellation, and will encompass all of it. (and anything along the way.)
Should arrive in 30,000 years or so.....


--- QuickBBS 2.81 GoldBase (Zeta-2.0b)
 * Origin: The Matrix Data Bank BBS, Rochester, Ny (1:2613/477)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 82 of 469
 From : Frank Glover                        1:2613/477      .ÿò 19 .þë 96 18:25
 To   : Owen E. Oulton
 Subj : Re: Cancelled
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

OE>  Mouse On Wall Street and The Mouse On The Moon (not quite sure of the
OE>  last title).

   You're correct. Somewhere, I still have a comic book version of The Mouse on
the Moon.

   Frank


--- QuickBBS 2.81 GoldBase (Zeta-2.0b)
 * Origin: The Matrix Data Bank BBS, Rochester, Ny (1:2613/477)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 83 of 469
 From : Bill Clements                       1:18/230        .òp 16 .þë 96 20:03
 To   : Kay Shapero
 Subj : CANCELLED
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
From the desk of a cynical old man...

" O H   M Y   G O D ! " --J.Q. Higgins

Posted 12 Jul 96 - Kay Shapero to Glenn Shaheen

 KS> with modern technology the same idiot who a couple of generations back
 KS> would have killed himself by gumming up the safety and causing a steam
 KS> explosion in the factory boiler room can now kill lots MORE people by
 KS> causing one in a nuclear power plant.  :(

Do you realize that you managed to say explosion and nuclear
power plant in the same sentence? This event may lead some
individual with SHI ... Tapioca for brains to, having missed the
word steam entirely, to begin anew the NUCLEAR flap that Nicolai
declared off topic six months ago.

Wonderful thought isn't it?

--RWC

... "Most 'scientists' are bottle washers and button sorters." --LL

--- PPoint 2.00 / QWK

--- FLAME v1.1
 * Origin: ANCESTRY TBBS Shadows of forgotten ancestors 941-382-9061 (1:18/230)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 84 of 469
 From : Henry Triplett                      1:106/564       .ÿò 19 .þë 96 22:46
 To   : BOB KLAHN
 Subj : Moon Landing
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 KS> On <Jul 12 21:43>, Bob Klahn (1:234/2) wrote to Nicolai Shapero:

 BK>> I was just coming off third shift in the comm shop at Hickam
 BK>>AFB, Hawaii. Someone had a B&W portable set up in the shop, and we
 BK>>all sat there and watched that step.

 BK>> Ah yes, I remember it well.

 KS> I was in college, though home for the summer and watched it on the
 KS> small B&W that was the family TV at the time.  I
 KS> remember going outside
 KS> afterwards and looking up at the moon for awhile.

Well, I'll add my two cents worth.  My family and I were living in Army
housing in El Paso, Texas.  Dad was stationed at Wm. Beaumont General
Hospital (near Fort Bliss).  We all were gathered around a large B/W
TV (large cabinet, small screen).  For some reason there was a break in
the programming and I went outside.  It was eerie, there wasn't a soul
on the street.  Normally there would be kids playing, folks working in
the yard, etc...

Henry

... "That's one small step for man...one giant leap for mankind."

___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20 [NR]
--- GEcho 1.00
 * Origin: Eat Flaming Death    Houston Texas    713-447-1927 (1:106/564)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 85 of 469
 From : Todd Sullivan                       1:202/720.3     .åò 18 .þë 96 18:00
 To   : Glenn Shaheen
 Subj : CGI vs Models
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Reports from the Interior indicate that Glenn Shaheen leaked the following to
Henry Triplett, re: CGI vs Models

 HT>> GS> CGI just looks too much like cartoons. I've seen space videos,
 HT>> GS> although I wasn't around at the original Moon landing.

 HT>> Cartoons, eh.  And you say you've seen video shot in space?  Like I
 HT>> told
 HT>> Kay, you've got your blinders on.  I give up, anyone else care to try?

 GS>         It looks cartooney.  Space video looks real. Space video does
 GS> not look like CGI.

That depends on the quality of the equipment and the signal.

Some shuttle video looks as though it was shot through cloudy water, while other
footage looks EXACTLY like the B5 scences, they're that clear.

However, your mind's made up, and I'll stop trying to confuse you with facts...

Todd Sullivan

... "I like being a node.  Told you I was crazy. (G)" --Holly Sullivan

-*- ASTG 1.9

--- Spot 1.3a Unregistered
 * Origin: Todd's Spot in the Continuum (1:202/720.3)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 86 of 469
 From : Glenn Shaheen                       1:3600/7        .pä 17 .þë 96 19:56
 To   : Henry Triplett
 Subj : more CGI defense..
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

HT>I would have had doubts about this if I hadn't seen the promo which aired
HT>before ID4.  (Saw it last night!)  You're right, Lucas & company are
HT>raising the standard once again.  BIG TIME!  For those who haven't seen i
HT>the FX are going to wow you.  Not only the spacecraft and the like, but t
HT>creatures.  (ie: Jabba the Hutt slithering down the avenue in Mos Eisley.

        Gee wilikers! I still think the original effects are pretty
darn good. How much better can you get?

-=-
 * OLX 2.2 * Technology changes things. The "F" word is now FORMAT.

--- SLMAIL v3.5C  (#1540)
 * Origin: Robotech  -=-Fansubbed anime available upon request-=- (1:3600/7)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 87 of 469
 From : Jeff Hancock                        1:3600/7        .åò 18 .þë 96 21:33
 To   : Henry Triplett
 Subj : Japanese SF
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

HT>Metropolitan area of 3.5 million plus souls with an indecent area in
HT>square miles to match.

There's my idea of hell.  Okay, one of them.

HT>However, there are many competitors. Found two more locations closed
HT>in the past week.  From the looks of the former locations, I would
HT>say that they pulled out of this area completely.

Well, hell.  I hope the competition was actually competing price-wise,
for your sake, and that the MP down here is staying in business for
mine.  But then, they don't seem to have a lot of competition for
selling videos _that I know of_.  Books and music and computer games,
yes, so they may just be getting creamed in 3/4 of their selection. :(
Still, the competition that I've seen in those areas is also more
expensive and doesn't really have a better selection - back when I was
hunting for the Babylon 5 CD, MP had it and none of the other stores I
tried did.  Then again, MP never restocked it or it kept selling out
every time since I never saw it there again.

Can't wait for that second B5 CD. ;-)  And I keep forgetting to see if
they have anything from Tangerine Dream when I'm in there...

-=-
 * Crazy-J * "I demand that I may or may not be lying!"

--- SLMAIL v3.5C  (#1540)
 * Origin: Robotech  -=-Fansubbed anime available upon request-=- (1:3600/7)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 88 of 469
 From : Nicolai Shapero                     1:102/524       .åò 18 .þë 96 19:51
 To   : Jeff Hancock
 Subj : Japanese SF
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Jul 16 19:42>, Jeff Hancock (1:3600/7) wrote to Nicolai Shapero:

 JH>Would you be speaking of titles, pure footage in hours, or just
 JH>based on
 JH>availability? ;)

Combination of hours and availability.  I've known about Dirty Pair for a LONG
time, and someone finally translated four or five of 'em (which I've got).  But
the series had far more episodes than what's been translated.  Compare this with
the number of SF films and series already IN English to start with...

-- Nicolai Shapero, the Mad Russian Sysop of StormGate Aerie

--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 89 of 469
 From : Kay Shapero                         1:102/524       .åò 18 .þë 96 22:11
 To   : Bob Klahn
 Subj : CANCELLED
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Jul 17 22:50>, Bob Klahn (1:234/2) wrote to Jeff Hancock:

 BK> Which was that fantasy story about the Witch and her husband,
 BK>the werewolf, who had to capture a genie

One of the short stories that make up Operation:Chaos, by Poul Anderson.  Fun
Book.

--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 90 of 469
 From : Kay Shapero                         1:102/524       .åò 18 .þë 96 22:12
 To   : Bob Klahn
 Subj : CANCELLED
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Jul 17 22:50>, Bob Klahn (1:234/2) wrote to Kay Shapero:

 BK>... A Magick Book that sticks with you:  The VELCRONOMICON

OOOK!  Stolen!

--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 91 of 469
 From : Kay Shapero                         1:102/524       .åò 18 .þë 96 22:16
 To   : GERRY NORMANDEAU
 Subj : By Force OF Arms
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Jul 17 02:37>, GERRY NORMANDEAU (1:243/95) wrote to KAY SHAPERO:

 GN>Have you ever read "ON WAR" by Carl Von Clausewitz by any chance?

Nope, as it happens.  Probably should someday I suppose.

--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 92 of 469
 From : Ken Mayes                           1:393/7         .ÿò 19 .þë 96 17:34
 To   : Bill Hedrick
 Subj : Re: CGI vs Models
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On Thu 18-Jul-1996 10:58a, Bill Hedrick said to Michael Harper:

BH> Actually if it's _good_ CGI it looks indistinguishable from a model
BH> Voyager uses a lot of _CGI_ (or so I'm told) try to pick it out from
BH> model-work....


        You're right. In fact, nearly the entire opening sequence in Voyager is
CGI. The funny part is I was reading some messages a few weeks back from people
critizing the part where Voyager makes a turn and is illuminated from behind by
a star in the distance and the light scatters. They correctly pointed out that
in real space light wouldn't scatter that way. Then they incorrectly pointed out
that in CGI that error wouldn't happen. Just so happens that the scene they were
talking about though WAS CGI. Even scientific inaccuracies can be programmed
into CGI. :)



--- CNet/3
 * Origin: The Bard's Tavern Denton, TX (817)243-5110 USR 28.8   (1:393/7)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 93 of 469
 From : Bob Klahn                           1:234/2         .ÿò 19 .þë 96 10:07
 To   : Frank Glover
 Subj : CANCELLED
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 FG>    I was watching CBS coverage of it (I remember Walter Cronkheit
 FG>    almost talked over Neil's first words), and somewhere in the back of
 FG>    my mind was this tiny hope that maybe extraterrestrials think along
 FG>    lines similar to those in `2001:A Space Odyssey,' and now that we
 FG>    can reach another world, they would  reveal themselves.....

 FG>    Oh well, wrong again.

 FG>    Frank

 FG>    (Or maybe it takes a higher threshold of technology? Mars? Pluto?
 FG>    Sub-light interstellar? Warp drives?)

 If they are out there, they may be a very long ways away. If so, the only
 way they are likely to know we are here is by intercepting our radio
 transmissions. Since there were no significant transmissions more than, say,
 75 years ago, the radio waves can't have gone more than 75 light years.

 I'd look up the number but the cat is sitting on my lap.  Since I normally
 have the keyboard on my lap while I type I'm holding it with one hand and
 typing with the other.

 If an alien race 75 light years away receives our transmissions, and if that
 race is limited to light speed, then we have at least 75 years to wait for a
 reply.

 In the words of the great English scientific philosopher, Douglas Adams,
 "Space is Big, really big.".

  Of course, stranger things have happened, for example, I just cleared
  enough space on my desk to put my keyboard on it. Feels funny, however.

BOB KLAHN

... "As God is my witness, I thought turkeys could fly!"
 * Silver Xpress V4.3P RB10275

--- FLAME v1.1
 * Origin: Telnet toltbbs.com or call 313-854-6001, Boardwatch #55 (1:234/2)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 94 of 469
 From : Bob Klahn                           1:234/2         .ÿò 19 .þë 96 10:07
 To   : Gerry Normandeau
 Subj : CANCELLED
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 GN> The Novel "Spock Must Die!" had Dr. MaCoy and Scotty arguing this same
 GN> thing. The Dr. was arguing that the transporter destroyed the original
 GN> and created a copy at the destination. The rest of the book was crud. :(

 It seems to me any system that actually "creates" a copy at it's destination
 could just as well create a dozen copies. If it doesn't actually transmit
 the original then why would it be necessary to destroy the original?

BOB KLAHN

... Fecund: the number before fird.
 * Silver Xpress V4.3P RB10275

--- FLAME v1.1
 * Origin: Telnet toltbbs.com or call 313-854-6001, Boardwatch #55 (1:234/2)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 95 of 469
 From : Bob Klahn                           1:234/2         .ÿò 19 .þë 96 22:18
 To   : Gerry Normandeau
 Subj : CANCELLED
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 GN> Standing at the gallows pole Bob Klahn spat a curse on Glenn Shaheen,
 GN> accusing im of CANCELLED!

 GN>
 BK>>> Hey, that's a classic.
 GN>
 GS>>         Plan 9 is great. Not if you take it seriously, though.

 BK>> And if you ignore the fact that the star died in the middle of
 BK>> shooting, and wasn't replaced.

 BK>> Bob Klahn

 GN> Weeell He was, sort of, by Ed Wood's Wife's Ciropracter.

 Now I vaguely recall something about this.

BOB KLAHN

... Lead me not to temptation, I can find it myself!
 * Silver Xpress V4.3P RB10275

--- FLAME v1.1
 * Origin: Telnet toltbbs.com or call 313-854-6001, Boardwatch #55 (1:234/2)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 96 of 469
 From : Bob Klahn                           1:234/2         .ÿò 19 .þë 96 22:18
 To   : Gerry Normandeau
 Subj : MINBARI AND B5
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 BK>> That would require Valen planned the war that killed so many. That
 BK>> would require a great conspiracy. Which I would never rule out.

 GN> Acctually a conspiracy of this type would be known only to a selet few
 GN> in the gray council. If they new. Dukat could have been the only one
 GN> in the know. This is not dificult if he, as has been said, received
 GN> one of valins letters. The rest will follow nateraly because it has
 GN> already happened in time and is just following along as it should. The
 GN> more people you tell the bigger the chance you change history.

 By great conspiracy I am speaking of the quality, not the size. Any
 conspiracy should be as small as possible.

 I think your analysis is fairly accurate. We can test it on our next time
 trip.

BOB KLAHN

... Never knock on Death's door. Ring the doorbell and run. He hates that.
 * Silver Xpress V4.3P RB10275

--- FLAME v1.1
 * Origin: Telnet toltbbs.com or call 313-854-6001, Boardwatch #55 (1:234/2)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 97 of 469
 From : Bob Klahn                           1:234/2         .ÿò 19 .þë 96 22:18
 To   : Darre Luallen
 Subj : B5 RENEWED
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 DL>  I have a problem stealing from my own stuff for taglines.  However, I
 DL>  have seen a thing or too taken from my messages and used as tags.  It
 DL>  makes me feel important.

 As do I, esp when I see a tagline I created long ago pop up once in a while.
 My favorite creation remains this tagline.

BOB KLAHN

... Cat \kat\ Small four legged fur bearing extortionist.
 * Silver Xpress V4.3P RB10275

--- FLAME v1.1
 * Origin: Telnet toltbbs.com or call 313-854-6001, Boardwatch #55 (1:234/2)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 98 of 469
 From : Bob Klahn                           1:234/2         .ÿò 19 .þë 96 22:18
 To   : Leman Russ
 Subj : MINBARI AND B5
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 LR>  Yes you may be right, using the same "overload" theory Star fleet
 LR>  battles uses. BTW, if Mimbari ships were "invisible" to terran

 That exploding control console bit always did get to me.

BOB KLAHN

... ...I am Pentium of Borg: Prepare to be approximated...
 * Silver Xpress V4.3P RB10275

--- FLAME v1.1
 * Origin: Telnet toltbbs.com or call 313-854-6001, Boardwatch #55 (1:234/2)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 99 of 469
 From : Bob Klahn                           1:234/2         .ÿò 19 .þë 96 22:18
 To   : Darre Luallen
 Subj : SF RATINGS
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 DL>  you with all you watching desires."  Perhaps "Satan" was too strong.
 DL>  Change that to "Slimy Used Car Salesman." :)

 Isn't that going from bad to worse?

 DL>  if at all.  Frankly, I don't even program the Country Music and
 DL>  religious channels into my VCR.

 I knew you couldn't be all bad.

 DL>  type.  We have some days where all the good SF is on against each
 DL>  other.

 Scream time, isn't it.

 DL>  Here, we agree totally.  But what of those unfortunate enough to not
 DL>  have a VCR?  Or the nights when three shows are on that I want to
 DL>  watch.  Sunday Night in my market puts Highlander, Hercules and
 DL>  B5 head to head with each other.  I tape B5, so I have to miss one
 DL>  of the other shows.

 Which is why I like to have 2 VCRs. One is broken now, so I have to trust to
 luck.

BOB KLAHN

... God must have loved the poor people, he made so many of them.  A. Lincoln
 * Silver Xpress V4.3P RB10275

--- FLAME v1.1
 * Origin: Telnet toltbbs.com or call 313-854-6001, Boardwatch #55 (1:234/2)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 100 of 469
 From : Bob Klahn                           1:234/2         .ÿò 19 .þë 96 22:18
 To   : Carson Chittom
 Subj : CANCELLED
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
BK>>  The objective in a war is to defeat the enemy.

OEO>>Unless, of course, you're the Duchy of Grand Fenwick...  :-)

 CC>         In the immortal words of <insert famous name>: "Huh?"

 Ask not for whom the mouse roars, it roars for you.

BOB KLAHN

... ,,, Theft resistant tagline
 * Silver Xpress V4.3P RB10275

--- FLAME v1.1
 * Origin: Telnet toltbbs.com or call 313-854-6001, Boardwatch #55 (1:234/2)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 101 of 469
 From : Lis Carey                           1:101/230       .åò 18 .þë 96 05:40
 To   : Jeff Hancock
 Subj : CANCELLED
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
JH>JW>a short story published in Asimov's called "Think Like a Dinosaur"
JH>JW>which gives the lowdown on what Transporting is probably really like.

JH>I'd like to know if it gets reprinted in a collection someday.  Author?

James Patrick Kelly.

 * OLX 2.1 TD * Oh, no! Not *ANOTHER* learning experience!

--- FLAME v1.0
 * Origin: Withouta Net - Drop In Anytime! - 617/846-5416 (1:101/230)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 102 of 469
 From : Lis Carey                           1:101/230       .åò 18 .þë 96 05:59
 To   : Mark Jones
 Subj : THE SF CHANNEL
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
MJ> BK>  MJ>   As long as the government is going to make paternalistic and
MJ> BK>  MJ> unconstitutional demands, I'll cheer the tv industry on as they
MJ> BK>  MJ> exploit loopholes like that one.  TV and radio are "the press" as
MJ> BK>  MJ> surely as newspapers and magazines are, and should be free of
MJ> BK>  MJ> government content control just as certainly.  (The notion that
MJ> BK> the
MJ> BK>
MJ> BK>  TV and radio are far more entertainment media than news media. TV and
MJ> BK>  radio themsleves are the means of communication, not the content.

MJ>  PLAYBOY is certainly more "entertainment" than news (at least
MJ>compared to Time or Newsweek), but it still gets first amendment
MJ>protection, doesn't it?

Playboy is print, not broadcast. The distinction between entertainment
media and news media is a false one; the legal distinction is between
things which use the limit resource of the broadcast band, and things
which do not. Things which do not use the broadcast band have
near-absolute protection, except for things like libel and intentional
fraud; things which do are subject to some restrictions, although not
very many: chiefly requirements to make some sort of show of devoting
part of their air time to broadcasting "in the public interest". They're
required to avoid some almost-universally offensive language;
substantive content is no more restricted than in print media.

MJ>  It doesn't matter whether radio and tv are used for "serious"
MJ>journalism or purely for entertainment.  They are as much "the press"
MJ>as any newspaper or magazine (many of which would fail your Serious
MJ>Communication test anyhow).  And they deserve the same protection.
MJ>(And three federal judges agree with me; they struck down the
MJ>Communications Decency Act as an unwarranted and unconstitutional
MJ>infringement of the first amendment recently.)

But that was with regard to the Internet, Mark, not tv & radio. The
judges even specifically made the point that the Internet is
_not_ like tv or radio. Restrictions on what cable tv can transmit
_also_ got struck down recently, BUT, again, cable doesn't use the
inherently limited broadcast band to transmit its shows; that's why even
small, comparatively primitive cable systems have thirty or more
channels.

MJ> BK> Not at all true. The broadcast spectrum is severly limited, and
MJ> BK> very competitive for space. The increase in technology has been
MJ> BK> more than compensated for by the increase in demand for spectrum
MJ> BK> space. Don't forget, the radio spectrum is international. Nobody
MJ> BK> has yet come up with a way to keep radio waves from spilling over
MJ> BK> national boundaries. Without government spectrum allotments radio
MJ> BK> would become unusable. Rush Limbaugh's 50KW powerhouse would be
MJ> BK> drowned out by the 1 watt wireless mike next door. Don't even try
MJ> BK> to run two TV stations on the same channel too close together.
MJ> BK> And a hundred miles is too close.

MJ>The amount of land is very limited, too.  And we deal with *that*
MJ>crisis by means of property rights.  Whoever owns the land gets to
MJ>decide how its used.  He can use it himself, sell it, or lease it to
MJ>someone else to use.

Have you ever heard of "zoning laws", Mark? And "building codes"? There
_are_ restrictions on what you can do with your land. And while they're
usually enforced by means of fines, if your violations are extreme and
persistent enough, you can go to jail for it.

 * OLX 2.1 TD * Water floats a ship...Water sinks a ship. Chinese proverb

--- FLAME v1.0
 * Origin: Withouta Net - Drop In Anytime! - 617/846-5416 (1:101/230)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 103 of 469
 From : Kay Shapero                         1:102/524       .ÿò 19 .þë 96 09:08
 To   : Ken Mayes
 Subj : Re: CGI vs Models
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Jul 17 09:44>, Ken Mayes (1:393/7@fido) wrote to Michael Harper:

 KM>        Actually, the model wasn't broken. It was misplaced. The
 KM>original model and special effects for the bird of prey were done
 KM>by an outside company (can't remember their name right off) and
 KM>they delivered the footage. However, nobody at that time thought
 KM>ahead and considered the possibility that the Romulans might make
 KM>a second appearance in the show. The show was young and back in
 KM>those days most sci fi didn't pay particularly close attention to
 KM>return villians (Lost in Space). So the company that did the
 KM>effects made no special attempts to preserve the model. It was
 KM>probably stuck in storage somewhere and forgotten or simply
 KM>tossed away as garbage. Nobody really knows.

Aha - so *that's* what happened.  The story got a bit modified whilst passing
through the bush telegraph.  Good thing they didn't lose the Klingon model...
:->  (I can see it all now "Captain!  The Romulans are back.. and they've got a
new ship design!"  and there, on the screen, is a large waffleiron...)

--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 104 of 469
 From : Kay Shapero                         1:102/524       .ÿò 19 .þë 96 10:01
 To   : Lis Carey
 Subj : CANCELLED             1/2
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Jul 16 23:48>, Lis Carey (1:101/230) wrote to Jeff Hancock:

 LC>But you watch it once, while watching B5 repeatedly, and going
 LC>over it in detail with others, thus ensuring that you remember things
 LC>about it that you're going to _forget_ about DS9.

There's one thing both of you may want to consider.  WHY does he watch B5
repeatedly, but not DS9?  What is it about the former that has fixed his
attention, and about the latter that has lost it?

My bet is it's a matter of tight continuity.  Yes, I know that there have been
dramatic changes and developments on DS9; offhand I can't think of a character
who hasn't undergone some changes from the beginning (especially Dr. Bashier,
whom I couldn't *stand* when he first appeared).  But DS9  is not a preplanned
story; it's progressing the same way real life does, with no advance warning.
It has the advantage of unpredictability in that even the writers don't know
where it's going.  B5 is a novel in an unusual format, but a novel all the same
with overall plot development, themes, forshadowing and so forth.  It has the
advantage that the writer knows the whole story in advance, even though the
viewer doesn't.  This allows for much tighter scripting of plot clues, in the
knowledge that they *will* get picked up on.

It's the difference between a book of short stories about the same characters,
written by different authors who had little or no idea what the others are
doing, and a novel with chapters.  Skip one of the short stories, or read 'em
out of order, and there's no real harm done.  Try that approach with the
chapters in a novel and are *you* going to get confused.

--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 105 of 469
 From : Nicolai Shapero                     1:102/524       .ÿò 19 .þë 96 18:40
 To   : Peter McNeill
 Subj : cancelled
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Jul 16 23:47>, Peter McNeill (1:244/116) wrote to Nicolai Shapero:

 NS> I was entering my sophmore year at UC Berkeley.  It was a hell of a
 NS> time.

 PM>I'm not sure where I was but I do remember being riveted to the
 PM>tv screen...

In July of 1969, I was between classes and had not yet begun the grim task of
putting myself through the remainder of my schooling.  I believe that I watched
the landing over at a friend's house...

-- Nicolai Shapero, the Mad Russian Sysop of StormGate Aerie

--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 106 of 469
 From : Steven Ross                         1:243/45        .åò 18 .þë 96 10:28
 To   : Bob Klahn
 Subj : By Force Of Arms
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 On 07-16-96 Bob Klahn wrote to Kay Shapero...

BK>  What I should have said is, "the objective in a war *should be* to
BK> defeat the enemy." All too often we go for limited objectives.

        Ah, but in a perfect world there wouldn't be wars.

BK>> If you want a war where both sides win, that implies both sides
BK>>are morally equal.
KS> Usually in a war both sides *are* morally equal.  One side has
BK>  In the past, before a few hundred years ago, that was true.

        I think I'll have to agree with Kay this point. I haven't noticed
any significant change in human nature in the last few hundred years
historicly. Its just gotten easier wage wars.

KS> something the other side wants so the latter goes after it. Or there's
KS> something both sides happen to want and they go after each other for
KS> it. Looked at objectively, war is rarely a matter of the good guys vs

BK>  It wasn't that way, it is now. There are good guys now.

        Define, good guys, without using western morality, philosphy or
politics.

KS> the bad guys. Tell me - are the Serbs or the Croats the "good guys"?

BK>  The Serbs are the "bad guys", the Muslims are the "Less Bad Guys",
BK> the Croats are wavering, or seem to be.

        Yet, Croats have on occasion committed some of the same crimes that
the Serbs have, for meny of the same reasons. You should also remember that
many of the old Serbs remember when the Croats worked for the SS death
squads.

BK>  A few hundred years ago, that may well have been true, it's not today.

        Why is not true today?

KS> it's the winners who write the history books.

        In modern parlance one could add: Whomever has the best PR man is
the one history will call morally right.

BK>  There are too many people still alive from the 20th century wars for
BK> the history books to fudge the facts.

        Your assuming someone tells their storys. What happens when the
camera turns away is quickly forgotten.

BK>  Nothing a dictatorship does is legitimate, because a dictatorship is
BK> not legitimate.

        That depends who you ask.

BK>  If two democracies go to war with each other then you may well have a
BK> case of two morally equal opponents, but I can't think of an example.

        But, there are no TRUE democracies anymore. The closest thing to a
true democracy in modern politics are the works of Karl Marx.

        Something to think about.

                                Steve...

... OFFLINE 1.41 * ERROR - [A]bort, [F]ail, [T]oss the computer.

--- Maximus 2.01wb
 * Origin: Pandora's Box, Ottawa, Ont. 613-829-1209 (1:243/45)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 107 of 469
 From : Todd Sullivan                       1:202/720.3     .ÿò 19 .þë 96 18:13
 To   : Bob Klahn
 Subj : CANCELLED
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Reports from the Interior indicate that Bob Klahn leaked the following to Jeff
Hancock, re: CANCELLED

 BK> and that
 BK>  his own body was 98% water. He withdrew into his bottle in a catatonic
 BK>  state. Now, that's a phobia.

 BK>  Somebody, I forget who, pointed out that people who fear nuclear power
 BK>  should consider the fact that a nuclear reactor of unimaginable size
 BK> and power is operating just a few miles under our feet.

Never mind the fusion reactor sitting 93 million miles away...

Todd Sullivan

... "Curiosity killed the cat, but for a while I was a suspect." --Wright

-*- ASTG 1.9

--- Spot 1.3a Unregistered
 * Origin: Todd's Spot in the Continuum (1:202/720.3)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 108 of 469
 From : Todd Sullivan                       1:202/720.3     .ÿò 19 .þë 96 18:16
 To   : David Johnston
 Subj : Cancelled
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Reports from the Interior indicate that David Johnston leaked the following to
me, re: Cancelled

 DJ> That's what PC is, an exaggerated desire to avoid anything which might
 DJ> considered bigoted or chauvinistic.

That's true.  I'm not PC in the least, but I see no need to insult people for no
reason.  Even if I might have a "reason", I still see no need for it.

Todd Sullivan

... Cats have nothing on dragons for inquisitiveness.

-*- ASTG 1.9

--- Spot 1.3a Unregistered
 * Origin: Todd's Spot in the Continuum (1:202/720.3)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 109 of 469
 From : Todd Sullivan                       1:202/720.3     .ÿò 19 .þë 96 18:17
 To   : Henry Triplett
 Subj : CGI vs Models
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Reports from the Interior indicate that Henry Triplett leaked the following to
MICHAEL HARPER, re: CGI vs Models

 -=>> Quoting Michael Harper to Henry Triplett <=-

 MH>> Not me, Henry. Glenn's got his mind made up; nothing we can do is
 MH>> gonna change it. If he thinks CGI looks fake, let him. I'll still take
 MH>> CGI over models; much more flexible. But I'm through arguing a
 MH>> hopeless case.

 HT> I know the feeling.  I wonder if he and all the other worshippers of
 HT> models
 HT> will be singing the same tune when the re-mastered versions of the Star
 HT> Wars trilogy come out next year?

I'm waiting for the "discoveries" that the Millenium Falcon andall the other
ships were bad CGI.  We can all have a good laugh at him, since he'd be wrong...

Todd Sullivan

... To fix a fried modem:  Sautee some onion in olive oil...

-*- ASTG 1.9

--- Spot 1.3a Unregistered
 * Origin: Todd's Spot in the Continuum (1:202/720.3)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 110 of 469
 From : Todd Sullivan                       1:202/720.3     .ÿò 19 .þë 96 18:24
 To   : Jeff Hancock
 Subj : Japanese SF
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Reports from the Interior indicate that Jeff Hancock leaked the following to
Leman Russ, re: Japanese SF

 LR>> JH> So what have you seen, and what would you recommend?
 LR>> I think "Ghost in the shell" is worth watching...

 JH> So you keep saying, but that kind of cyberpunk really isn't my bag of
 JH> hammers.  If I see it in the store I'll at least look over the
 JH> packaging blurbs.

 JH> Besides that?

There are several flavors of Cyberpunk, Jeff.  Some are more or less hard-edged
than William Gibson's stuff, is all.

Todd Sullivan

... "You stay away from him; he'll rip your lungs out, Jim." --Warren Zevon

-*- ASTG 1.9

--- Spot 1.3a Unregistered
 * Origin: Todd's Spot in the Continuum (1:202/720.3)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 111 of 469
 From : Jeff Hancock                        1:3600/7        .ÿò 19 .þë 96 18:18
 To   : Lis Carey
 Subj : CANCELLED
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

LC>JH>LC>JH>And, of course, they weren't worried about attacking DS9
LC>JH>LC>JH>since they knew the Feds wouldn't start a war over it. ;)
LC>JH>LC>In Real Life(tm), Jeff, single incidents _rarely_ cause a
LC>JH>That was not the point I was trying to make, and you know it.
LC>Um, well, no. That seemed to me to be the point you were making.

Perhaps I should be more literal and less exaggerative then, although
the smiley at least should have been a clue.  What I was trying to say
was, if the Federation, or any other race, had done something similar to
the Klingons; war would have been a likely result.  Even if it wasn't,
one would expect the Klingons to be more hotheaded, more prone to
hostile action over it, and in general take it very seriously.

In comparison, the Feds would not be likley to jump straight into action
and make demands, but would always be open to negotiation.  I'm not
condemning them for that, even if one might get that impression; but was
just saying that to the Klingons, the Federation ought to be considered
as not much of a threat.  In terms of forces they are, but in action,
attacking a station like DS9 should be something they can always talk
their way out of later.  With another race, it would be much more likely
to lead to open conflict.

LC>JH>It only takes one side to start a war, does it not?  If the other
LC>Starting a war between two major powers is rarely one-sided.
LC>Logically, it doesn't take two to make war, but in practice, between
LC>major powers usually it does. They spend years, dancing around each
LC>other, saying do we REALLY want to do this, and usually don't

In our current state of the world, unless you have insane people in
charge, yes.  I'm not saying the Klingons are insane, but they seem to
be at least more rash, with a few exceptions.  Weren't a number of the
Klingons rather displeased with Gowron for not being more activist in
earlier seasons?

LC>JH>the warpath.  They can take drastic action without worrying
LC>JH>overmuch about the threat of war; while the reverse does not hold
LC>It depends on the "drastic action" they take. _So far_, they haven't
LC>threatened anything truly vital to the Federation, although the
LC>teaser ending of the last episode indicates that they have finally
LC>done so, or are about to.

Agreed, I wasn't very clear about that, I meant "drastic action" as in
openly attacking a Federation outpost with a war fleet, even with the
flimsy pretext of recovering "war criminals" who had received asylum.

LC>A single assault on DS9, that was beaten off, does count for much in
LC>the grand scheme of things, in a culture that's more concerned with
LC>pragmatic results than with the Klingons' version of "honor".

Does, or does not?

LC>JH>..  but even so, first you help someone and cause them to become
LC>JH>more of a threat, then you fight them to keep them from becoming

LC>In practice, humanitarian aid to our enemies has always come _after_
LC>we've fought them, and has never left us _worse_ off in relation to
LC>them than we were before the aid. Whereas the European-preferred

I wasn't really condemning it, just pointing out that it sounds nuts. ;)
No need to defend this as I'm not disagreeing.

LC>JH>And so on up to five, that we know of, and are assuming the
LC>JH>Changelings were behind.  The Klingons might well have attacked
LC>JH>the Cardassians without any prompting, thus the Changelings would
LC>JH>only have credit for the reduction in their forces.

LC>Um, I think I supplied, if not proof, at least _evidence_ for
LC>Changeling involvement in each incident I mentioned. Onscreen
LC>evidence, I mean, not speculation. [We really don't know exactly when
LC>Gowron was replaced by the Changeling; or if, even if that

What was the evidence of Changeling involvement in the attack on
Cardassia, again?  It was the Changeling plot which decimated their
forces, but as you pointed out the Klingons had good reason to take down
their adversaries while they had the chance, without needing a
Changeling to help push them to do it.
-=-
 * Crazy-J * Illuminatus vehicles provided by the Fnord Motor Company.

--- SLMAIL v3.5C  (#1540)
 * Origin: Robotech  -=-Fansubbed anime available upon request-=- (1:3600/7)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 112 of 469
 From : Jeff Hancock                        1:3600/7        .ÿò 19 .þë 96 18:21
 To   : Bob Klahn
 Subj : CANCELLED
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

BK>werewolf, who had to capture a geniee, and did it when they
BK>discovered he was terrified of water? They pointed out to him all the
BK>water on earth, and that his own body was 98% water. He withdrew into

Was this genie actually in a human body, or just a magic facsimile that
may not have had any water in it, assuming he wasn't just a mental
projection in the first place?

Yeah, I know, the story doesn't work that way. ;)

BK>BK>> I had never thought of it that way, but it does sound depraved.
BK> JH> That's me.
BK> Conceited....

Are you saying you're more sick and twisted than I am?  Well, then, more
power to you!  ;-)

-=-
 * Crazy-J * HA! You watch Sailor Moon! HA!HA!huh?*SMACK* Ow! My face!

--- SLMAIL v3.5C  (#1540)
 * Origin: Robotech  -=-Fansubbed anime available upon request-=- (1:3600/7)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 113 of 469
 From : Jeff Hancock                        1:3600/7        .ÿò 19 .þë 96 18:51
 To   : Lis Carey
 Subj : CANCELLED             1/2
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

LC>JH>Let's just say things never seem to coherently jell into a
LC>JH>specific timeline, even though I watch it casually, not
LC>But you watch it once, while watching B5 repeatedly, and going over

I watch it more than once if the episode is interesting enough.  And I
don't always watch B5 that repeatedly.  Haven't caught the reruns on TV
for about a month now.

LC>it in detail with others, thus ensuring that you remember things
LC>about it that you're going to _forget_ about DS9.

But I thought Trek was supposed to cater more to the casual viewer? ;)

LC>Yes, they're still concentrating on the Cardassians. That's why Dukat
LC>has become a terrorist, and how Worf managed to get caught in the
LC>Klingons' attack on the medical-supply ships.

I've blanked on this.  For some reason it all seems to blend together.

LC>JH>LC>varyingly-successful attempts at humor, pointed out that JMS was
LC>JH>LC>apparently confused as to the spelling of "Benjamin".
LC>JH>Did he ever state later if it was a joke or not?
LC>When challenged on it, he concentrated on other points that had been
LC>challenged, where there was more room for argument [such as alleged

[....]

LC>One is forced to conclude that it was a genuine mistake, not a joke.

Well, then, the issue never needed to be raised.  Everyone makes
mistakes, and only those suffering from severe insecurity need to remind
others of them at any opportunity to distract attention from their own
inaccuracies.  <grin>  And if you take that as seriously as you seem to
take everything else, then the rest of this thread can go straight to
dev\nul.

LC>JH>Could have been a mental misfire, thinking of Jake Sisko, or of
LC>JH>the "J" sound in "Benjamin".
LC>Possibly, but it doesn't improve the credibility of his claim to have
LC>found all this _evidence_ that DS9 is a copy of B5.

What, because he made one mistake?  It isn't like his whole line of
reasoning was based on that one small detail, so you have no right to
throw out the baby with the bathwater.  And besides, DS9 being a copy
-or not- of B5 was never the issue to begin with, that discussion has
been argued to death far too many times already, so it would be nice if
we could not get started on it yet again.

LC>When you include little details like that, it's important to get them
LC>right.

If possible, because then anyone who disagrees in general will
immediately ignore all the lines of reasoning that could be argued and
will focus exclusively on the one or two details that can be
conclusively proven wrong.

LC>JH>Elements I had generally forgotten about, but remember at least
LC>JH>parts of with your prompting.
LC>See?

See what?  That I have an imperfect memory?  Tell me something else I
don't know.  And if we talked about DS9 more, then I would remember
more. ;)

LC>JH>Lots?  I remember the teaser episode with Odo, nothing more.
LC>You should, if nothing else, remember the episode where Tom Riker
LC>stole the Defiant - and joint Federation/Cardassian pursuit of him
LC>stumbled upon the Obsidian Order's secret shipyards. That was a
LC>blatant one; there were other suggestions that something more
LC>underhanded than usual was going on, too.

I remember the episode, but not the shipyards.  Even so, why shouldn't
they have have secret shipyards?  It's the Federation which has
everything but the top-secret-research projects out in the open,
perfectly natural for a race like the Cardassians to have concealed
military production facilities.  Isn't it?

LC>JH>LC>that the Cardassian Empire was critically weakened by those
LC>JH>By the by, the Romulans were also involved... so why haven't the
LC>JH>Klingons moved against them as well?
LC>One enemy at a time. Voluntarily fighting a two-front war is the act

Evidently the Cardassians were harder hurt.  Seeing as how they would be
sooner at risk than the Romulans in case of an all-out Dominion assault,
they would tend to commit more of their forces.

LC>JH>If I watch it on a regular basis and am unable to combine the
LC>JH>story elements into a cohesive whole over a period of time, how
LC>JH>does that equate with "choosing" what to believe in?
LC>You watch B5 much more carefully than DS9, which is fine - but then
LC>attribute all differences in what you notice about the shows to the
LC>_shows_ and not to your own style of watching them. You state as
LC>flat, incontestable fact what is in reality only your own, sometimes
LC>inaccurate, impressions derived from watching DS9 in a much more
LC>casual manner than you watch B5.

It's not the watching in general, it's the remembering; as well as the
afterward analysis on which I have the benefit of sharing with other B5
fans what their thoughts were.  If DS9 raised more discussion here - I
don't care enough about it to get the specific echo (and didn't for B5
for quite a good while either) - then things would be different.  As far
as stating as fact; all I can do is talk about what I know, and if what
I know ain't so, well, that's nothing new and someone will be sure to
correct me.  ;)  Excuse me for being human.

LC>every episode once, plus many but not all of the reruns. WHILE I'm
LC>watching an episode, I concentrate totally on the episode.

I generally do that as well, but just don't think about DS9 much
afterwards.  Usually the next day or three, especially at work, I think
about everything that happened in the B5 ep; but usually not about the
DS9 one.  For some reason it frequently seems that there isn't much to
think about, but apparently that's just my own lack of discerning all of
the subtexts.

LC>JH>I would appreciate it if you could possibly engage in debate
LC>JH>without consistantly painting your opponent as a mindless
LC>JH>snivelling fanatic through your own brand of spin-doctoring his
LC>JH>messages.
LC>Jeff, you should take a look at some of your own spin-doctoring.

What?  I'm not trying to say that you're saying something other than
what you're saying; while it seems you're constantly out to prove that
everything I say derives from some basic belief that "DS9 is a copy of
B5", or something similar.  You may be seeing motives that I don't see
in myself, but it seems to me more likely that you're putting me in a
stereotype and interpreting all my messages as being from that type,
then reacting accordingly.  It's quite annoying.

LC>JH>And again, you attack with a polarized viewpoint, as if I was
LC>JH>condemning DS9 for not being "just like" B5.
LC>But you _were_ condemning DS9, pretty emphatically, with highly
LC>specific criticisms, many of which were inaccurate, and several of
LC>which were essentially criticisms of the _style_ rather than the

Not that I'd say "many", but yes, that is essentially correct in
retrospect.

LC>substance. Your position, I THINK, can fairly be summed up as:
LC>A)DS9 is a copy of B5
LC>B)DS9 is vastly inferior to B5
 >>> Continued to next message

-=-
 * Crazy-J * This tagline not sponsored by Pepsi in any way.

--- SLMAIL v3.5C  (#1540)
 * Origin: Robotech  -=-Fansubbed anime available upon request-=- (1:3600/7)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 114 of 469
 From : Jeff Hancock                        1:3600/7        .ÿò 19 .þë 96 18:51
 To   : Lis Carey
 Subj : CANCELLED             2/2
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 >>> Continued from previous message

And there you go.  The first is not my position at all - I've drawn some
parallels between the two, suggesting some duplication of elements, but
that's as far as that goes and it's an insignificant portion of my
arguments.  The second... I wouldn't say "vastly", but from my point of
view, that position derives from my reasoning (which as you state isn't
as sound as I would wish) and NOT vice-versa, which is how you seem to
be interpreting it.

LC>And your specifics in support of these positions have been, mostly,
LC>ranging from somewhat to wildly inaccurate, and, by your own

Gee, overstate it a little bit why don't you.  Sure you aren't confusing
me with the person who thought Gul Dukat was the leader of the Minbari?
;)

LC>statements, based on quite superficial watching of DS9, compared to
LC>the intensity and attention you give to B5. A lot of what you're

Superficial _only_ in comparison, and a lot of that attention is
secondhand through discussion, which I don't mind engaging in with DS9
fans but am not about to seek out a whole echo full of them.

LC>It requires more attention to notice it on B5 than you seem to have
LC>given DS9, too, but with B5, you're _giving_ it that attention.

Well, the beauty of it is that it doesn't *seem* like I have to
concentrate as hard to see the story arc elements in B5.  <g>
-=-
 * Crazy-J * This tagline not sponsored by Pepsi in any way.

--- SLMAIL v3.5C  (#1540)
 * Origin: Robotech  -=-Fansubbed anime available upon request-=- (1:3600/7)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 115 of 469
 From : Jeff Hancock                        1:3600/7        .ÿò 19 .þë 96 19:17
 To   : Darre Luallen
 Subj : Japanese SF
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

DL> JH> Will shoot you a copy.
DL> Got it.  Right now, I'm mulling it over.  Let you know by snail mail

Sugoi na!  Arigato.

DL> Money was a consideration.  Time more so as I tend to spread myself
DL>pretty thin.  In fact, right now I'm keeping up on three echoes on

Wow.  You sound busier than some of the fansubbers I talk to.  ;)

DL> DL>_Bubblegum Crisis_ and _Bubblegum Crash_.  Unfortunately, the
DL> Crisis was good.  I loved the animation and characters, but the
DL>story of the first one was a little thin.  I've only managed to see
DL>the first and I think they were setting up for the rest with it.  As

That would make sense.  It seems a number of the OVAs do that; the
Japanese seem to produce more mini-arc series and arcing TV series with
nominal stand-alone plots then they do full stand-alones - or at least
I've seen more of that type.

DL>for Crash, the animation and story were about equal, with the story
DL>being just slightly more equal.  Yes, it did seem to be inferior. The
DL>animation didn't seem to have the depth and richness of Crisis. Kinda
DL>like the makers had years for Crisis but only a few months for Crash.

I doubt they had "years" for either, but...  I think it was
characterization and story that were criticized most, but I haven't
really heard much about either.  Mostly just "Stay away from Crash" sort
of warnings. ;)  However, just about all the anime produced originally
starts out as manga, so it is possible that Crisis had a large comic
book history that they could cull the best elements down into, while
Crash was conceived as just a sequel to the anime without a manga
storyline source to draw upon.  I really don't know for sure.

DL> DL> Perhaps the most amazing anime I ever saw was a tape a friend
DL> JH> Oh?  Distributed by U.S. fans? ;)
DL> Good question.  Zathras wish had answer fitting such question.

Well, if you'll tell me everything you can remember - a name would be
good ;) - I can relate it in the Anime echo and maybe someone will
recognize it.  If it was just a contest entry as you say, it may never
have reached any kind of distribution; but if it was that good then
someone ought to have tried to get a copy of it.

DL>  BTW, did you ever see the music video for Matthew Sweet's
DL>"Girlfriend"?  If not, the video was anime.  If so, do you know if it
DL>was from a specific movie or created just for the video?

I've not seen the videos, but there has been an ongoing thread about
them in ANIME, so I picked up this info today:

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

 MS> -- i forgot the answer), anyhow.. "What is the anime that is being
 MS> shown in that video huh?",

 Space Adventurer Cobra.

 MS> and QUESTION 2, also with Matthew Sweet, he has another video with LUM
 MS> from Urusei Yatsura (Those Obnoxious Aliens)

[reply snipped]

 MS> However you want to put it, i was wondering if anyone knew the name of
 MS> the song..

 I've Been Waiting.
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

So there are two videos out by this guy with anime footage.  Guess I'm
going to have to try watching a little MTV for a change to see if I can
catch 'em. ;-)

Never seen SAC, but have seen some of UY, so that at least I ought to
recognize.

For those that are interested, the descriptions I have read:

    SPACE ADVENTURER COBRA.  A cigar on one side of his mouth, a
wise-crack on the other, a psycho-gun on one arm, a lovely woman in the
other, notorious space rouge Cobra travels about in his cruiser doing
good deeds, but just can not seem to keep his lady friends alive.

    URUSEI YATSURA (translates as something like "Those Obnoxious
Aliens"), a slap-stick screwball comedy about Lum, the flying
electro-demon girl from space, Ataru, the earth boy she wants, and a
host of other crazy characters. Popular madness in TV, OAV, and movie
formats by Rumiko Takahashi. This entire series is being released from
AnimEigo in dubbed and subbed formats. (The second movie is available
subbed from USMC. Don't ask...)

I'd like to get ahold of the first if I can find it, don't know if it's
a movie, OVAs, or a TV series.
-=-
 * Crazy-J * "But, my brain is very very compact!" - Damaramu

--- SLMAIL v3.5C  (#1540)
 * Origin: Robotech  -=-Fansubbed anime available upon request-=- (1:3600/7)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 116 of 469
 From : Bob Klahn                           1:234/2         .óá 20 .þë 96 09:06
 To   : Todd Sullivan
 Subj : CANCELLED
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 TS> Reports from the Interior indicate that Bob Klahn leaked the following
 TS> to me, re: CANCELLED

 TS>>> What always annoyed the daylights out of me was how PC Trek had become,

 BK>>  What do personal computers have to do with the ethics problems on
 BK>> trek?

 TS> I meant Politically Correct.  Ugh:  MS-Multitronics?

 I knew that, that's my little dig at how much I hate the term PC.

BOB KLAHN

... Ham and eggs: A chicken's day's work; a pig's lifetime commitment.
 * Silver Xpress V4.3P RB10275

--- FLAME v1.1
 * Origin: Telnet toltbbs.com or call 313-854-6001, Boardwatch #55 (1:234/2)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 117 of 469
 From : Bob Klahn                           1:234/2         .óá 20 .þë 96 09:57
 To   : Frank Glover
 Subj : JAPANESE SF
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 FG>    Cool! As an occasional packeteer myself, (using a PK-232) I can
 FG>    appreciate the difficulty. The pilot's communications sounded to me
 FG>    (though they may not have been) single sideband transmissions that
 FG>    were ever so slightly off-tuned....

 It sounded like that to me, also. Most people don't realize that SSB is the
 only thing that's gonna sound like that, those ships would probably use FM
 for short range, and it would have sounded just fine.

 FG>    You may have heard that in `Space Seed,' a CQ was used as the Botany
 FG>    Bay's beacon, rather than the SOS the writer originally wanted,
 FG>    because even in the context of an entertainment program, NBC didn't
 FG>    want to put itself in the position of broadcasting an SOS over its
 FG>    affiliate stations....

 I can understand that. Esp if it's a background transmission. Some people
 get real touchy about that. OTOH, shows use an SOS for part of the plot all
 the time.

BOB KLAHN

... Tagline space to let.  Inquire within.
 * Silver Xpress V4.3P RB10275

--- FLAME v1.1
 * Origin: Telnet toltbbs.com or call 313-854-6001, Boardwatch #55 (1:234/2)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 118 of 469
 From : Bob Klahn                           1:234/2         .óá 20 .þë 96 09:57
 To   : Frank Glover
 Subj : CANCELLED
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 FG>
BK>>   Somebody, I forget who, pointed out that people who fear nuclear
BK>>  power
BK>>   should consider the fact that a nuclear reactor of unimaginable size
BK>>  and
BK>>   power is operating just a few miles under our feet.
 FG>
 FG>    And a stupendously larger one 93 million miles away. (And
 FG>    unshielded, too! How dare such a design be approved!?)

 Well, it's a long ways away, though, as you point out, it is unshielded. Of
 course, that's a fusion reactor, the one under our feet is a fission
 reactor.

BOB KLAHN

... Describe the universe.  Cite 2 examples.
 * Silver Xpress V4.3P RB10275

--- FLAME v1.1
 * Origin: Telnet toltbbs.com or call 313-854-6001, Boardwatch #55 (1:234/2)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 119 of 469
 From : Bob Klahn                           1:234/2         .óá 20 .þë 96 09:57
 To   : David Little
 Subj : THE DARK SIDE
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 DL> -=< Bob Klahn used the Jedi Mind Trick on me!>=-


 DL>         Try this one...


 DL> ... "Lord Vader,you WILL show me some respect" Palpatine "Pfblt" Vader

 Don't get it.

BOB KLAHN

... My reality check just bounced.
 * Silver Xpress V4.3P RB10275

--- FLAME v1.1
 * Origin: Telnet toltbbs.com or call 313-854-6001, Boardwatch #55 (1:234/2)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 120 of 469
 From : John Aldrich                        1:362/669       .ÿò 19 .þë 96 21:26
 To   : All
 Subj : Trek Con in Birmingham?
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Hello All!

I've heard there's a Trek convention in Birmingham this fall, with William
Shatner. Anyone got any more info, such as time, place, etc?
Thanks...
        John
 {dungeon@dngnbbs.com}

... senilgat gnidear emit hcum oot yaw dneps uoY
--- GoldED/386 2.50+ 91LM1
 * Origin: The Dungeon BBS 28.8/V.34 24-hours 423/875-4137 (1:362/669)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 121 of 469
 From : Michael Harper                      1:123/10        .åò 18 .þë 96 18:47
 To   : David Little
 Subj : CGI vs Models
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
While sipping a dry martini, David Little told Michael Harper about
CGI vs Models...

 DL> I TELL YOU, SPIDER-MAN IN THE LIVE ACTION PILOT LOOKS LIKE
 DL> HE'S REALLY CLIMBING THE BUILDING!!!!!!<G>

 Yeah, with a rope... <smirk>

 DL> Actually, when B5 started CGI cost more. Now it's about the
 DL> same. You have to realize most of the cost in CGI is the computation
 DL> time in drawing the individual frames.

 True; rendering takes awhile.  But if they'd done the pilot with
 models, it would've taken a lot longer, and you have to compute your
 man-hours for construction of the models into the cost. Hiring a big
 effects company like ILM would've killed the whole thing; Barry Diller
 would've looked at the proposed budget and laughed hysterically just
 before he threw Joe and Doug out the window...

 Y'know how much B5 spends on fx in a episode? About a third of what
 Paramount spends on your average episode of DS9. Believe me, it's a lot
 cheaper. Pretty much always has been.

 I'm the first to admit that there are things you can do with models
 that you really can't do with CGI, although in my fatigued state I
 really can't think of what...

 I finally got a job; I'm working for a FedEx contractor as a file
 clerk, and they're wearing my elderly ass out...


... "You are finite.  Zathras is finite.  This.. is wrong tool." -Zathras
--- RA/FD/FMail
 * Origin: The Eclectic Fox -- Memphis TN  (901)327-1008 (1:123/10)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 122 of 469
 From : Michael Harper                      1:123/10        .åò 18 .þë 96 18:47
 To   : Owen E. Oulton
 Subj : Scheduling SF shows
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
While sipping a dry martini, Owen E. Oulton told Michael Harper about
Scheduling SF shows...

 OEO> S:A&B also had a very big problem that's going to hurt The X-Files,
 OEO> which is going into that time slot now.  It's right after FOX Sunday
 OEO> Football, which almost always runs overtime, making *ANY* show in that
 OEO> slot a real stone bitch to catch, especially if you're taping.  You
 OEO> have no way of knowing if the game is going to run overtime, and if so
 OEO> by how much.  The average (off the top of my head) delay due to
 OEO> football for S:A&B last year was about 15 minutes.

 <wince> I'd forgotten all about that, too. We can pretty much kiss
 X-Files goodbye after this season...


... "Every time I've built character, I've regretted it." -- Calvin
--- RA/FD/FMail
 * Origin: The Eclectic Fox -- Memphis TN  (901)327-1008 (1:123/10)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 123 of 469
 From : Michael Harper                      1:123/10        .åò 18 .þë 96 18:47
 To   : Frank Swarbrick
 Subj : B5 Renewed
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
While sipping a dry martini, Frank Swarbrick told Michael Harper about
B5 Renewed...

 FS> Actually, only CBS said no.  As far as I remember, FOX was ok with
 FS> it.  Of course, I don't think the X-Files episode was even changed in
 FS> any way.  Mulder was to be on PF, but I don't think any PF people
 FS> were scheduled to be on XF.  (Of course, I may be wrong.)

 You're right on all counts; it would've been a ratings coup for both
 shows, but CBS didn't want to do anything that might help the
 competition. Dumb.


... Power corrupts.  Absolute power is sorta neat, though.
--- RA/FD/FMail
 * Origin: The Eclectic Fox -- Memphis TN  (901)327-1008 (1:123/10)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 124 of 469
 From : Michael Harper                      1:123/10        .åò 18 .þë 96 18:47
 To   : Kay Shapero
 Subj : Scheduling SF shows
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
While sipping a dry martini, Kay Shapero told Michael Harper about
Scheduling SF shows...

 KS> And let's not forget Search the Seven Hills, a truly wonderful
 KS> historical mystery.  She writes Good Stuff!

 That she does. I don't have anywhere near all of her stuff, and I wish
 I did.

 KS> As far as programming is concerned, I'm reminded strongly of penguins
 KS> on the edge of an ice floe.  Each really wants to get into the water
 KS> and catch fish, but at the same time none wants to be first in and
 KS> likely get eaten by a leopard seal.  So they all push and shove until
 KS> someone else gets pushed into the water and if nothing bad happens to
 KS> them, then everybody else piles in.

 That's a pretty good analogy.

 MH>... "I'm just anxious to get up there and kick E.T.'s ass." --Hiller

 KS> I haven't seen ID4 yet; *is* that the best line in the movie?  I've
 KS> been wondering since I first saw the promo...

 No, there are a lot of much better lines; that's just the one that came
 to mind first. In fact, I'll give you a better one in parting...



... "I have GOT to get me one of these!" --Capt. Steven Hiller
--- RA/FD/FMail
 * Origin: The Eclectic Fox -- Memphis TN  (901)327-1008 (1:123/10)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 125 of 469
 From : Michael Harper                      1:123/10        .åò 18 .þë 96 18:47
 To   : Demian Katz
 Subj : Scheduling SF shows
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
While sipping a dry martini, Demian Katz told Michael Harper about
Scheduling SF shows...

 DK> Get all the poor souls who got hooked on Earth 2 before its
 DK> unfortunate demise.  I far preferred Earth 2 to Space: Above and
 DK> Beyond, though.

 E2 had some good things going for it, but I watched the show for one
 reason; I've been a fan of Clancy Brown's since I first saw him in
 Buckaroo Banzai, and I try to watch anything he does.


--- RA/FD/FMail
 * Origin: The Eclectic Fox -- Memphis TN  (901)327-1008 (1:123/10)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 126 of 469
 From : Michael Harper                      1:123/10        .óá 20 .þë 96 20:41
 To   : Bill Hedrick
 Subj : Cgi Vs Models
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
While sipping a dry martini, Bill Hedrick told Michael Harper about
Cgi Vs Models...

 BH> Actually if it's _good_ CGI it looks indistinguishable from a model.
 BH> Voyager uses a lot of CGI (or so I'm told); try to pick it out from
 BH> model-work....

 I'm not surprised. If ILM is doing the digital compositing, then it'll
 be seamless. Lucas is always on the lookout for better and more
 versatile methods of doing effects; his reliance on CGI for some of the
 Voyager f/x is not the least bit unexpected...


... I'll be damned, there _are_ five lights!
--- RA/FD/FMail
 * Origin: The Eclectic Fox -- Memphis TN  (901)327-1008 (1:123/10)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 127 of 469
 From : Michael Harper                      1:123/10        .óá 20 .þë 96 20:41
 To   : Bob Klahn
 Subj : B5 RENEWED
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
While sipping a dry martini, Bob Klahn told Michael Harper about B5 RENEWED...

 BK> They treat Amerind culture as if it were all the same all over the
 BK> country, and as if the pop culture version was the reality. It's a
 BK> 'New Age' version of an ancient tradition, and a corruption of it.

 BK> They exploit it, they don't respect it.

 Exactamundo. I'm only adopted Cheyenne, and know very little about my
 people, but I know H'wood. They figure that the mass audience doesn't
 know a damn thing about native culture, and they can cobble up some
 kinda bullshit substitute that the masses will accept. Problem is,
 there are a few of us who know the real thing from a cheap copy...

 Last night I saw part two of "Anasazi", the X-Files three-parter.
 Mulder's near-death vision was so well done it was amazing. Carter
 should be commended for doing his research, and for hiring Floyd Red
 Crow Westerman and some real Navajos to play those roles. Good job,
 Chris. We're proud of you.


... Most of us are products of over a century of government schooling.
--- RA/FD/FMail
 * Origin: The Eclectic Fox -- Memphis TN  (901)327-1008 (1:123/10)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 128 of 469
 From : Michael Harper                      1:123/10        .óá 20 .þë 96 20:41
 To   : Ken Mayes
 Subj : CGI vs Models
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
While sipping a dry martini, Ken Mayes told Michael Harper about
CGI vs Models...

 KM> Actually, the model wasn't broken. It was misplaced. The
 KM> original model and special effects for the bird of prey were done by
 KM> an outside company (can't remember their name right off) and they
 KM> delivered the footage. However, nobody at that time thought ahead and
 KM> considered the possibility that the Romulans might make a second
 KM> appearance in the show. The show was young and back in those days most
 KM> sci fi didn't pay particularly close attention to return villians
 KM> (Lost in Space). So the company that did the effects made no special
 KM> attempts to preserve the model. It was probably stuck in storage
 KM> somewhere and forgotten or simply tossed away as garbage. Nobody
 KM> really knows. The book Star Trek Lives tells about that.

 That's one of the few I don't have, I think. If the company is Howard
 Anderson, Inc., I'm really not surprised; they were one of the first in
 the business, and had a hard time of it in the early days. I seem to
 recall that they were working out of a garage somewhere...


... Message from God: Universe rebooting in 5 sec.  Please log out.
--- RA/FD/FMail
 * Origin: The Eclectic Fox -- Memphis TN  (901)327-1008 (1:123/10)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 129 of 469
 From : Michael Harper                      1:123/10        .óá 20 .þë 96 20:42
 To   : Darre LuAllen
 Subj : Scheduling SF shows
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
While sipping a dry martini, Darre LuAllen told Michael Harper about
Scheduling SF shows...

 DL> Forgot about L&C being on later.  As for SAAB, I can see the
 DL> mentality  involved in the decision.  If they would have settled for
 DL> less numbers....

 But they can't. The better the ratings, the better the ad revenue.
 That's why time on high-rated sports events goes for as much money as
 it does; if you have a prebuilt audience, you want your product
 advertised on that show because you can guarantee that x number of
 viewers are going to see your ad and x percentage will buy your
 product. It all comes down to numbers, and small green pieces of paper.

 DL> I have problems with Voyager, so I don't watch it as often.  I'm
 DL> never around to see DS9, so I don't get to see it as much as I'd like
 DL> to. That does not mean that I have to bust on the two shows.  In
 DL> fact, I usually enjoy watching them.

 And right now DS9 is going off, and I'm upstairs beating on this
 message and a pile of others. Episode was a rerun anyway. We gotta have
 priorities; one of mine is catching up on backlogged e-mail...

 DL> I remembered her right after I sent the message.  I have been meaning
 DL> to find a new author to try.  I think you have made up my mind for
 DL> me.

 She's a wonder. Try her Windrose series first; _The Silent Tower_, _The
 Silicon Mage_, and _Dog Wizard_. At some point, try _Bride Of The Rat
 God_. Then _Dragonsbane_. Work from there.

 MH> There is where I run dry. I have no idea why the networks do the idiot
 MH> things they do. I worked in television for a short time, and came to
 MH> the conclusion that people in that business are insane.
 DL>
 DL> Apt conclusion.  I'm still reeling of the cancellation of _Brisco
 DL> County, Jr._ some years ago.  However, thanks to TNT, I now have
 DL> them all on tape.  Entertaining, funny, written with intelligence.
 DL> What more could a show have going for it.

 Yes to all. I love Brisco. Couldn't believe how stupid Fox was in
 killing it...

 DL> Originally from the Nashville area myself.  Now, I'm stuck up here in
 DL> the Cookeville area.  Is there any organized fandom in your neck of
 DL> the woods?  Here we have a college sponsored SF club that is a
 DL> hit or miss affair.

 Oh, yeah. There's organized fandom. Memphis Science Fiction
 Association, three Starfleet chapters, a nonaffiliated Trekfan group,
 SCA, and a bunch of others. I'm gonna try to find out how to get a club
 organized myself; there are a lot of B5 fans in the area who're looking
 for a club. Might as well start one...

 Since you live in Cookeville, contact Tess Wade over in Fairfield
 Glade. She's a longtime fan, and has the local connections if they even
 exist. She should be in the book; if not, she can be reached on the
 Internet. I think she's still on GEnie, so it'd be something like
 EWade@genie.com. She might be in the book. Call her. Tell her I sent
 you.

 L8R, Mike


... "Somehow I can't imagine you ever being little, Bowler." -Brisco
--- RA/FD/FMail
 * Origin: The Eclectic Fox -- Memphis TN  (901)327-1008 (1:123/10)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 130 of 469
 From : Michael Harper                      1:123/10        .óá 20 .þë 96 20:42
 To   : Henry Triplett
 Subj : CGI vs Models
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
While sipping a dry martini, Henry Triplett told MICHAEL HARPER about
CGI vs Models...

 HT> I know the feeling.  I wonder if he and all the other worshippers of
 HT> models will be singing the same tune when the re-mastered versions of
 HT> the Star Wars trilogy come out next year?

 Probably. I suspect a lot of the naysayers will grump about how Lucas
 ruined it with all this additional footage and these cheesy CGI
 effects...

 HT> ... What did tornados sound like before freight trains were invented?

 Good one. Consider it stolen.


--- RA/FD/FMail
 * Origin: The Eclectic Fox -- Memphis TN  (901)327-1008 (1:123/10)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 131 of 469
 From : Michael Harper                      1:123/10        .óá 20 .þë 96 20:42
 To   : Jeff Hancock
 Subj : Japanese SF
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
While sipping a dry martini, Jeff Hancock told Michael Harper about Japanese
SF...

 JH> I don't mind, but I have to be honest, you can just as easily go one
 JH> step up to the fansubber.  He charges a buck more per tape now, but I
 JH> think he's all caught up so there shouldn't be much of a wait either.
 JH> ;)

 Yeah, but I don't know him. I know you. I'll deal with you.

 JH> This is _not_ business.  It's a favor for the fans.  The money is
 JH> simply because I can't afford to buy and mail videotapes for free... If
 JH> I win the lottery or something then it's open house, until then, I need
 JH> some form of compensation. ;)

 I dig. Bad choice of terms. Even if you won the lottery, though, you
 still should be compensated for the cost of the tapes, the postage, and
 at least some small bit for your time.

 JH> But I'll send you the list, as well as some URLs where, if you have
 JH> web access, you can get in touch with other fansubbers/traders.

 Find me a local one if you can.


... "Baseball is 90% mental. The other half is physical." Ä Yogi Berra
--- RA/FD/FMail
 * Origin: The Eclectic Fox -- Memphis TN  (901)327-1008 (1:123/10)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 132 of 469
 From : Myra I Fox                          1:123/10        .pä 17 .þë 96 15:44
 To   : Todd Sullivan
 Subj : I'm lurking around
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

-=>Quoting Todd Sullivan to Myra I Fox<=-

 MH>> Brent was a semi-regular on _Night Court_, Kay. He played this

 MIF> That is how I recognized him in INDEPENDENCE DAY, by that accent! <g>

 TS> Oh, so you've decided to come up for air, have you? <hugs>

I peek in here every now and then - just don't have *time* enough to
read here regularly!

Joining in with the folks who thought INDEPENDENCE DAY was great!  I
really didn't know what to expect when I went so perhaps there was no
way to be disappointed, but I have read as many negative comments as
positive about the movie.  I thought it was a "War of the Worlds" for
the 90's.  Another small role that I thought was good was the crop
duster played by one of the Quaids... Randy?

I picked up a neat magazine today called SFX and there is lots of
great info on Red Dwarf (Kryten on the cover!), Doctor Who, XFiles...

I am ready for that three year cliffhanger on Red Dwarf to be
resolved.

                Myra



... "This show's getting just like all the others." - Max Headroom
--- RA/FD/FMail
 * Origin: The Eclectic Fox -- Memphis TN  (901)327-1008 (1:123/10)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 133 of 469
 From : Myra I Fox                          1:123/10        .pä 17 .þë 96 15:44
 To   : Nicolai Shapero
 Subj : Sitcom stars
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

-=>Quoting Nicolai Shapero to Myra I Fox<=-

 MI>That is how I recognized him in INDEPENDENCE DAY, by that accent!

 NS> Looked to me like he was playing a younger Dr. Sung for ID4...

I think you're right.  It was a small but interesting part, maybe he
will show up in some of these future sf movies that I have seen
trailers for recently.  He might be a new character actor for the
90's.



... I am afraid that is beyond my design parameters. þ Data
--- RA/FD/FMail
 * Origin: The Eclectic Fox -- Memphis TN  (901)327-1008 (1:123/10)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 134 of 469
 From : Frank Glover                        1:2613/477      .cê 21 .þë 96 01:20
 To   : Bob Klahn
 Subj : Re: CANCELLED
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

BK>   It seems to me any system that actually "creates" a copy at it's
BK>  destination
BK>   could just as well create a dozen copies. If it doesn't actually
BK>  transmit
BK>   the original then why would it be necessary to destroy the original?

   Yes, a point made by Arthur Clarke in one of his essay collections.
(Unfortunately, I don't remember the name of the collection, or the particular
essay....

   The classic of course is Niven's `The Theory and Practice of Teleportation"
in the `All the Myriad Ways' anthology. Hemuch prefers to warp a piece of space
from here to there, rather than take people apart, and beam their mass-energy
(or just the information) around.

   Frank


--- QuickBBS 2.81 GoldBase (Zeta-2.0b)
 * Origin: The Matrix Data Bank BBS, Rochester, Ny (1:2613/477)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 135 of 469
 From : Bob Klahn                           1:234/2         .cê 21 .þë 96 22:49
 To   : Kay Shapero
 Subj : CANCELLED
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 KS> On <Jul 17 22:50>, Bob Klahn (1:234/2) wrote to Kay Shapero:

 BK>>... A Magick Book that sticks with you:  The VELCRONOMICON

 KS> OOOK!  Stolen!

 I did.

BOB KLAHN

... BASIC programmers never die, they GOSUB and don't RETURN.
 * Silver Xpress V4.3P RB10275

--- FLAME v1.1
 * Origin: Telnet toltbbs.com or call 313-854-6001, Boardwatch #55 (1:234/2)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 136 of 469
 From : Leman Russ                          1:2250/7        .cê 21 .þë 96 01:16
 To   : Jeff Hancock
 Subj : Re: Japanese SF
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 Beisdes GitS I could recomend Gall Force ifthe dubbed version is as good an the
subbed.

>;[

--- DLG Pro v1.0/DLGMail
 * Origin: Sage's Tower - Amiga - (618) 259-1844 (1:2250/7)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 137 of 469
 From : Leman Russ                          1:2250/7        .cê 21 .þë 96 01:28
 To   : Frank Glover
 Subj : Re: JAPANESE SF
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 You are correct. In TOS ep "Space seed" they COULD NOT play a morse SOS for any
reason at the time.

 Now. IMS, in B5 they did have a morse SOS played in one ep, which means either
the FCC has loosened its regs, or people are just ignoring it, which is fine
with me.

>:[

--- DLG Pro v1.0/DLGMail
 * Origin: Sage's Tower - Amiga - (618) 259-1844 (1:2250/7)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 138 of 469
 From : Leman Russ                          1:2250/7        .cê 21 .þë 96 01:31
 To   : Gerry Normandeau
 Subj : klingons
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 What you have to remember is that klingons are very stupid and quite cowardly,
not to mention barbaric in all ways. Their stupidity explains their idiotic
methods of attack, their cowardice explains why they run when the odds aren;t
ontheir side and their barbarism explains why they send over boarding parties.

 Basicalally they want to take things intact with BPs because its more fun to
have trophies, take prisoners to use as slaves and to loot higher tech
installations. Also they, being animals, probably prefer face to face kills over
blowing thingsa up with ship weapons.

 People talk about klingon courage and warrior abilities. The only klingon with
any guts is worf, and he was raised by humans. Other klings talk a good fight,
but usually lose badly unless the odds were on their side. When the odds are
fair, klings ruor get stomped.

>;[

--- DLG Pro v1.0/DLGMail
 * Origin: Sage's Tower - Amiga - (618) 259-1844 (1:2250/7)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 139 of 469
 From : Leman Russ                          1:2250/7        .cê 21 .þë 96 01:37
 To   : Jeff Hancock
 Subj : Re: Japanese SF
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 Project A-ko is one long in joke for anime fhans. Among the ones I got are"

 -The title is a take off of a japanese video called "project a"

-The explosion scene at the beginning is a takeoff od the one in "Akira"

 - mary was a takeoff of "Kenshiro, fist ofthe north star".

_ The teacher appeared in some x-rated animes.

-One of the fighters seen was an interceptor from "UFO".

-Some of the missiles were pepsi cans.

 So on and so on....

>:[

--- DLG Pro v1.0/DLGMail
 * Origin: Sage's Tower - Amiga - (618) 259-1844 (1:2250/7)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 140 of 469
 From : Leman Russ                          1:2250/7        .cê 21 .þë 96 04:54
 To   : All
 Subj : Minbar
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 I finally found out where JMS got the name "Minbar" from. I have a collection
of Role Playing Games that I've been amassing for many years, and one of them is
called "Mekton" printed in 1986 by R.Talsorian games, andthe original game was
set on in the Algol star system, and the star Algol had a companion star
orbiting it. Guess whatthe smaller star was named?

 'sright, Minbar! And in the later versions of this game the language tended to
pluralize things by adding an "i" atthe end to make a long E sound, hence
minbari.

I was just pouring over my old game collection when I caught that reference and
really noticed it.

 "Support right to life, or we'll kill you."  The new christian reich.

>:[

--- DLG Pro v1.0/DLGMail
 * Origin: Sage's Tower - Amiga - (618) 259-1844 (1:2250/7)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 141 of 469
 From : Kay Shapero                         1:102/524       .cê 21 .þë 96 16:09
 To   : Bob Klahn
 Subj : By Force Of Arms
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Jul 18 10:28>, Steven Ross (1:243/45) wrote to Bob Klahn:

Good thing too - I never saw the message he replied to.  So I can't comment on
anything he didn't quote.

BK>  What I should have said is, "the objective in a war *should be* to
BK> defeat the enemy." All too often we go for limited objectives.

 SR>        Ah, but in a perfect world there wouldn't be wars.

More to the point, war is generally not done for the purpose of destroying the
other guy - it's to make him do or not do something you want him to do or not
do, that he doesn't want to.  Yes indeed, you can say the object is to defeat
the enemy; it's the definition of defeat that wanders around considerably.  Take
the American Revolution.  The fledgling United States didn't want to destroy the
British, they wanted to get them out of control of the US.  So when the British
army surrendered and went back to Britain, the US won.  But the British only
lost a colony; they didn't lose any of their territory back on Great Britain,
nor did they come under the control of the United States.  They were as
independant a nation at the end as they were at the beginning.  Compare this to
the Norman Conquest, where William and his collection of French noble bastards
and younger sons crossed the English Channel and took over most of the
countryside.  The winners ruled the losers, a much more overwhelming definition
of defeat...

KS> Usually in a war both sides *are* morally equal.  One side has
BK>  In the past, before a few hundred years ago, that was true.
 SR>
 SR>        I think I'll have to agree with Kay this point. I haven't
 SR>noticed any significant change in human nature in the last few hundred
 SR>years historicly. Its just gotten easier wage wars.
 SR>

They've gotten bigger and more people notice them because communications have
improved.  But, for example, the US Civil War was not fought over slavery (that
particular interpretation is a more modern one.  Personally, I'll settle for
being glad it's *gone* without needing to modify history too.).  Mostly it was
fought because the southern states wanted to leave the union and the northern
states didn't want them to leave.  Not sure who is exactly the "good guy" in
this context.  And the division was blurred; so much so that the same officer,
Robert E. Lee of Virginia was offered command by both sides; the Union first.
He seems to have been philosophically a bit more inclined to the Union, but
ultimately went with the Confederacy due to loyalty to Virginia.

And then there's WWI.  Germany *did* get rather a raw deal before that one; read
up on the causes and you'll notice it wasn't all that clear cut either.  Now
WWII was pretty straightforward; nobody but the Germans and the Japanese wanted
Germany and Japan to rule the world, and considering what the government of the
former was doing to its own citizens and anybody else it could catch, they
earned the bad guy label.  (Mind you, there were plenty of citizens of both
nations who were good guys, or neither.)

Vietnam?  That was a long term mess where neither side was in the right and
exactly who should do what to whom was and still is a good question.  And if you
consider the North Vietnamese bad guys, take a look at what they did later in
Cambodia.  Giving Pol Pot the bum's rush was one of the best things anybody
could have done for that place.

BK>  It wasn't that way, it is now. There are good guys now.

Sometimes.  Not always.

BK>  The Serbs are the "bad guys", the Muslims are the "Less Bad Guys",
BK> the Croats are wavering, or seem to be.

 SR>        Yet, Croats have on occasion committed some of the same
 SR>crimes that the Serbs have, for meny of the same reasons. You
 SR>should also remember that many of the old Serbs remember when
 SR>the Croats worked for the SS death squads.
 SR>

No point in my adding to this.  Go study the history of the Balkans for the last
couple of hundred years, and you will be Enlightened...  (Probably disgusted,
too.)

BK>  There are too many people still alive from the 20th century wars for
BK> the history books to fudge the facts.

Ever been present at a major public event and then read the news story later and
noticed that it doesn't match your memory, quite?  I have.  It's *easy* to fudge
the facts.  I'm continually amazed at the things I remember that are already
forgotten by others, and I'm only 45.

BK>  Nothing a dictatorship does is legitimate, because a dictatorship is
BK> not legitimate.

Depends on your dictatorship.  There's another word I suggest you study the
history of.

--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 142 of 469
 From : Nicolai Shapero                     1:102/524       .îí 22 .þë 96 05:31
 To   : Ken Mayes
 Subj : Re: CGI vs Models
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Jul 19 17:34>, Ken Mayes (1:393/7@fido) wrote to Bill Hedrick:

 KM>Just so happens that the scene they were talking about though WAS
 KM>CGI. Even scientific inaccuracies can be programmed into CGI. :)

Garbage in, garbage out...

-- Nicolai Shapero, the Mad Russian Sysop of StormGate Aerie

--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 143 of 469
 From : Henry Triplett                      1:106/564       .îí 22 .þë 96 16:39
 To   : MICHAEL HARPER
 Subj : CGI vs Models
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

-=> Quoting Michael Harper to Henry Triplett <=-

 MH> While sipping a dry martini, Henry Triplett told MICHAEL HARPER about
 MH> CGI vs Models...

Shaken, not stirred. <g>

 HT> I know the feeling.  I wonder if he and all the other worshippers of
 HT> models will be singing the same tune when the re-mastered versions of
 HT> the Star Wars trilogy come out next year?

 MH> Probably. I suspect a lot of the naysayers will grump about how Lucas
 MH> ruined it with all this additional footage and these cheesy CGI
 MH> effects...

I imagine you're right.  Either that or they'll jump on the bandwagon
and pretend that they saw the promise of CGI all along.

 HT> ... What did tornados sound like before freight trains were invented?

 MH> Good one. Consider it stolen.

Wish it had originated with me, but it didn't.  Got it off of the INET
Model Railroading conference.  You're welcome to it, of course.

Henry


... If it's a tie at the RR crossing, you lose. - Operation Lifesaver

___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20 [NR]
--- GEcho 1.00
 * Origin: Eat Flaming Death    Houston Texas    713-447-1927 (1:106/564)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 144 of 469
 From : Ken Mayes                           1:393/7         .îí 22 .þë 96 07:45
 To   : Michael Harper
 Subj : Re: CGI vs Models
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On Mon 22-Jul-1996  7:11a, Michael Harper wrote:

MH>  KM> attempts to preserve the model. It was probably stuck in storage
MH>  KM> somewhere and forgotten or simply tossed away as garbage. Nobody
MH>  KM> really knows. The book Star Trek Lives tells about that.

MH>  That's one of the few I don't have, I think. If the company is Howard
MH>  Anderson, Inc., I'm really not surprised; they were one of the first in
MH>  the business, and had a hard time of it in the early days. I seem to
MH>  recall that they were working out of a garage somewhere...

        It's ironic that most of the Enterprise footage for TOS was done 'In
house' by the production team that actually did the show but they contracted out
to do the Romulan ship. Watch Balance of Terror, the episode which first used
the Romulan ships and you'll notice a distinct difference in quality between the
Romulan footage and the Enterprise footage (the Romulan footage is much better
IMHO.)
        The next time the Romulans were used, in the second season episode
"Deadly Years" they simply rehashed the old stock footage.

        The Klingon ship that turned up in the third season was carved by Matt
Jefferies out of a solid block of wood and had no internal lighting at all.
Interesting tidbit. Since they did not show the original episodes in the same
order as they were filmed, the final result was that the first time the Klingon
ship was actually seen 'on screen' in a televised episode, it was in "Enterprise
Incident" and the ships were crewed by Romulans. The first episode 'filmed' with
the new Klingon ship was 'Day of the Dove' but it wasn't actually broadcast
until a few weeks after Enterprise Incident. :)




--- CNet/3
 * Origin: The Bard's Tavern Denton, TX (817)243-5110 USR 28.8   (1:393/7)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 145 of 469
 From : David Little                        1:106/7315      .cê 21 .þë 96 17:54
 To   : Bob Klahn
 Subj : THE DARK SIDE
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
-=< Bob Klahn used the Jedi Mind Trick on me!>=-

 DL>         Try this one...
 DL> ... "Lord Vader,you WILL show me some respect" Palpatine "Pfblt" Vader
 BK> Don't get it.

        Vader gave Palpie-baby the raspberry!

                                        -=The DoLittle 8-)=-


... Luke and Mara's Amateur Sex Holos, on the next "A Current Affair"!
--- Blue Wave/DOS v2.30 [NR]
 * Origin: The Wizards Realm BBS 1-713-946-7315 1:106/7315 (1:106/7315)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 146 of 469
 From : Patrick Duda                        1:218/801       .îí 22 .þë 96 02:26
 To   : Leman Russ
 Subj : Realistic space scenes
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12  91-0018

-> Some here have condemned CGI as to "unrealistic" for space scenes,
-> and others have condemned models for the same reason, pointing out
-> that neither looks just like the pics from real space scenes,
-> likethe moon landings, etc.

   I think the ships from SAAB looked perfectly realistic (within
expected limits), with the NOTABLE exception of the engine thrust.
 Do you know if the tech. used for the f-16's in ID4 was new, or just
detailed application of current CGI? I knew they couldn't get that  many
planes up, but otherwise I would've sworn they were real.
  Hmmmm... what about a hybrid technology? The models look cheap since
they are small and the focus and size are off, but the actual material
has many real-life characteristics like texture and light diffraction.
how about using CGI ships with real model panels for texture maps?

-> Point 3. The most realistic, IMNSHO, space special effects was
-> Space:1999. The eagles looked realistic and were filmed in a
-> belieavble manner, looking

  Not familiar with that. What's the story on it?

--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12
 * Origin: Star Tech Diamond Bar, CA 909-396-4227 714-257-1175  (1:218/801.0)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 147 of 469
 From : Frank Glover                        1:2613/477      .cê 21 .þë 96 21:37
 To   : Bob Klahn
 Subj : Re: JAPANESE SF
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

BK>   I can understand that. Esp if it's a background transmission. Some
BK>  people
BK>   get real touchy about that. OTOH, shows use an SOS for part of the
BK>  plot all
BK>   the time.

   Trouble is, most tv writers don't apply it to Morse Code, but have characters
*saying* SOS. (A scene in the movie `Orca' comes right to mind.) What they want
for voice transmissions, of course, is `Mayday.'

   (I remember a mildly clever scene in a Sea Hunt episode where Mike Nelson, is
being forced to do something under duress, and when he tries to get rid of two
friends who happened to show up, he finishes with; "Oh, and tell May I won't be
able to see her today." Knowing that Mike had no girlfriend named May, they got
the hint...)

   Frank


--- QuickBBS 2.81 GoldBase (Zeta-2.0b)
 * Origin: The Matrix Data Bank BBS, Rochester, Ny (1:2613/477)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 148 of 469
 From : Frank Glover                        1:2613/477      .cê 21 .þë 96 21:52
 To   : Michael Harper
 Subj : Re: Scheduling SF shows
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

MH>   OEO> S:A&B also had a very big problem that's going to hurt The
MH>  X-Files,
MH>   OEO> which is going into that time slot now.  It's right after FOX
MH>  Sunday
MH>   OEO> Football, which almost always runs overtime, making *ANY* show
MH>  in that
MH>   OEO> slot a real stone bitch to catch, especially if you're taping.

MH>   <wince> I'd forgotten all about that, too. We can pretty much kiss
MH>   X-Files goodbye after this season...

   If (Gods forbid!) that should happen, one wonders if they'd have a major
series finale? Will the `Cancer Man' finally quit? Will Scully quit the FBI in
disgust, and get a job as a stripper? Will Mulder break everything wide open by
crash landing a UFO at the Super Bowl?

   And with respect to how Mulder finally dies...what did that guy say about
autoerotic asphyxiation....??

   Frank


--- QuickBBS 2.81 GoldBase (Zeta-2.0b)
 * Origin: The Matrix Data Bank BBS, Rochester, Ny (1:2613/477)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 149 of 469
 From : Todd Sullivan                       1:202/720.3     .óá 20 .þë 96 18:24
 To   : Darre LuAllen
 Subj : B5 Renewed
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Reports from the Interior indicate that Darre LuAllen leaked the following to
Frank Glover, re: B5 Renewed

 DL>
 DL>  With so much SF available, much of it of good quality, people
 DL>  have lost their appreciation for good SF Cheez.  I remember getting
 DL>  excited over _Megaforce_, _Spacehunter..._ and _Krull_.  Cheezy?
 DL>  Yes.  But they were trying.

But the cheesiness was so much fun, especially after seeing Bostwick in RHPS, or
Urich in Vega$.  Krull, OTOH, had a good story; it was the effects that were so
charmingly cheesy, just like Dr. Who.

Todd Sullivan

... "The dullness of the fool is the whetstone of the wits." --Shakespeare

-*- ASTG 1.9

--- Spot 1.3a Unregistered
 * Origin: Todd's Spot in the Continuum (1:202/720.3)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 150 of 469
 From : Todd Sullivan                       1:202/720.3     .óá 20 .þë 96 18:30
 To   : Glenn Shaheen
 Subj : more CGI defense..
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Reports from the Interior indicate that Glenn Shaheen leaked the following to
Henry Triplett, re: more CGI defense..

 HT>> i
 HT>> the FX are going to wow you.  Not only the spacecraft and the like, but
 HT>> creatures.  (ie: Jabba the Hutt slithering down the avenue in Mos
 HT>> Eisley.

 GS>         Gee wilikers! I still think the original effects are pretty
 GS> darn good. How much better can you get?

I'd say as much of leap between the effects from Logan's run and Star Wars. Both
were made in the 70s, but are worlds apart in effects.

Todd Sullivan

... Jesus saves sinners, and redeems them for valuable cash and prizes!

-*- ASTG 1.9

--- Spot 1.3a Unregistered
 * Origin: Todd's Spot in the Continuum (1:202/720.3)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 151 of 469
 From : Jeff Hancock                        1:3600/7        .óá 20 .þë 96 16:13
 To   : Leman Russ
 Subj : Japanese SF
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

LR> I've got the dominion subbed and its great. I also have the

Sounds very punk, but also silly, so I'll have to look for it.

LR> The best dub job I've seen was "robot carnival" and "Vampire hunter
LR>D", both ofwhich are in my library courtesy of channel TBS' night

Those are both Streamlines... It's a funny thing, but I hear a lot of
"bad stuff" about Streamline videos, yet the results are almost always
entertaining. Interestingly enough, they also seem to have a policy
where they don't mind fansubs of their titles... but the fansubs are
still hard to find, presumably the traders don't want to risk it anyway.
The upshot is, it's hard to compare to see exactly how much they
changed, but since they're still rather fun to watch, there isn't a
whole lot of reason to want to.

According to my guide, "Robot Carnival" only had two segments with
voices anyway.  Now VHD ... well... you may have seen this elsewhere but
I think this is rather telling. ;)

===========================================================================

VP> JS> Vampire Hunter D
VP>Seen the dub on TBS, okay.

You should see it outside of TBS. On that network they cut out as much
of the violence as they could. For VHD, that means about half of the
shots, and so a lot of it seems bizarrely paced with still frames and
sped up music and the like.
I'm not saying it is great; it's truly not in absolutely every regard
from its basic story to its less than consistent animation, but it makes
up for it in coolness!
===========================================================================

-=-
 * Crazy-J * And now for a subliminal report.               Thank you.

--- SLMAIL v3.5C  (#1540)
 * Origin: Robotech  -=-Fansubbed anime available upon request-=- (1:3600/7)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 152 of 469
 From : Jeff Hancock                        1:3600/7        .óá 20 .þë 96 16:18
 To   : Brion Lienhart
 Subj : Japanese SF
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

BL> -JH>THAT'S the one.  So this listing is wrong, then?
BL>Fairly wrong. From what I can tell, there never were any men. The

I wonder how many other entries in that list are wrong.

BL>later ones, Rhea Gall Force, and Earth Chapters 1,2,3 take place on
BL>our Earth, where there are men, but none of them are in the main

The first guide (without the 'no men' error) lists those two as being
pedestrian and greatly inferior to the original.  What would you say?

BL> -JH>Think I've heard that the quality diminished from the first
BL>Weellll, sort of. They weren't as original, but they are pretty good.

I just heard much the same from another inquiry. ;)  Thanks.

-=-
 * Crazy-J * Why bother to put "self-explanatory" in a dictionary?

--- SLMAIL v3.5C  (#1540)
 * Origin: Robotech  -=-Fansubbed anime available upon request-=- (1:3600/7)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 153 of 469
 From : Glenn Shaheen                       1:3600/7        .ÿò 19 .þë 96 20:37
 To   : Henry Triplett
 Subj : CGI vs Models
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

HT>I know the feeling.  I wonder if he and all the other worshippers of mode
HT>will be singing the same tune when the re-mastered versions of the Star
HT>Wars trilogy come out next year?

       I don't like CGI that is no good. If the CGI is good, then I'll
like it. The CGI on most TV shows is not very good.
-=-
 * OLX 2.2 * Redneck Menu Conumdrum #1: What wine goes with Moon Pies?

--- SLMAIL v3.5C  (#1540)
 * Origin: Robotech  -=-Fansubbed anime available upon request-=- (1:3600/7)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 154 of 469
 From : GERRY NORMANDEAU                    1:243/95        .cê 21 .þë 96 17:35
 To   : KAY SHAPERO
 Subj : By Force OF Arms
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Standing at the gallows pole Kay Shapero spat a curse on Gerry Normandeau, accu
ing him of By Force OF Arms!

 KS> On <Jul 17 02:37>, GERRY NORMANDEAU (1:243/95) wrote to KAY SHAPERO:

 GN>Have you ever read "ON WAR" by Carl Von Clausewitz by any chance?

 KS> Nope, as it happens.  Probably should someday I suppose.

You shoud. He wrote in the late 1800's but he wrights along the same
philosophy. Have you ever seen Gwyn Dyer? He has a video series avaliable
at most libraries. He realy knows what he talks about he does.

________________________________________________________________________
|  _______    |                   GERRY NORMANDEAU                     |
|  []    |    |   cn754@freenet.carlton.ca / Vanier, Ontario, CANADA   |
|  []    O    |~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~|
|  []   /|\   |Royal Hangman To His Majesty King Bruno The Questionable|
|  []   / \   |~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~|
|  []         |        "ALWAYS ROOM FOR ONE MORE, ME'LORD!"            |
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
... AD&D FLW: "Golly, I always wanted to be a hero!"

___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20
--- Platinum Xpress/Wildcat! v1.2j
 * Origin: The OFFSPRING BBS! Orleans, Ontario CANADA (613)834-8587 (1:243/95)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 155 of 469
 From : GERRY NORMANDEAU                    1:243/95        .îí 22 .þë 96 00:03
 To   : BOB KLAHN
 Subj : CANCELLED
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Standing at the gallows pole Bob Klahn spat a curse on Gerry Normandeau, accusi
g him of CANCELLED!

 GN> The Novel "Spock Must Die!" had Dr. MaCoy and Scotty arguing this same
 GN> thing. The Dr. was arguing that the transporter destroyed the original
 GN> and created a copy at the destination. The rest of the book was crud. :(

 BK> It seems to me any system that actually "creates" a copy at it's
 BK> destination could just as well create a dozen copies. If it doesn't
 BK> actually transmit the original then why would it be necessary to
 BK> destroy the original?
 BK> BOB KLAHN

Please don't ask me that! I have yet to understand most of there
tecnical philosophy, the stuff that doen't make my head hurt anyway.:)
The useof the transporter is the most cockeyed atemped at story ballence
they ever came up with. For one, to have any adventure they always
had to knock the thing off line every second episode. After seeing
what happenes to that piece of equipment, I now know why the Dr. feels
that way about it.

________________________________________________________________________
|  _______    |                   GERRY NORMANDEAU                     |
|  []    |    |   cn754@freenet.carlton.ca / Vanier, Ontario, CANADA   |
|  []    O    |~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~|
|  []   /|\   |Royal Hangman To His Majesty King Bruno The Questionable|
|  []   / \   |~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~|
|  []         |        "ALWAYS ROOM FOR ONE MORE, ME'LORD!"            |
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
... "It does not bode well to leave a live dragon out of your calculations

___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20
--- Platinum Xpress/Wildcat! v1.2j
 * Origin: The OFFSPRING BBS! Orleans, Ontario CANADA (613)834-8587 (1:243/95)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 156 of 469
 From : GERRY NORMANDEAU                    1:243/95        .îí 22 .þë 96 00:09
 To   : BOB KLAHN
 Subj : CANCELLED
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Standing at the gallows pole Bob Klahn spat a curse on Gerry Normandeau, accusi
g him of CANCELLED!

 GN> Standing at the gallows pole Bob Klahn spat a curse on Glenn Shaheen,
 GN> accusing im of CANCELLED!

 GN>
 BK>>> Hey, that's a classic.
 GN>
 GS>>         Plan 9 is great. Not if you take it seriously, though.

 BK>> And if you ignore the fact that the star died in the middle of
 BK>> shooting, and wasn't replaced.

 BK>> Bob Klahn

 GN> Weeell He was, sort of, by Ed Wood's Wife's Ciropracter.

 BK> Now I vaguely recall something about this.

Yea, the guy was two feet taller and in perfect phisical helth. He stalked
around the set with the cape up over his face. He had absolutly no
resemblance to Legosi.


________________________________________________________________________
|  _______    |                   GERRY NORMANDEAU                     |
|  []    |    |   cn754@freenet.carlton.ca / Vanier, Ontario, CANADA   |
|  []    O    |~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~|
|  []   /|\   |Royal Hangman To His Majesty King Bruno The Questionable|
|  []   / \   |~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~|
|  []         |        "ALWAYS ROOM FOR ONE MORE, ME'LORD!"            |
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
... ERROR: (A)bort (R)etry (I)gnore (B)lame someone

___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20
--- Platinum Xpress/Wildcat! v1.2j
 * Origin: The OFFSPRING BBS! Orleans, Ontario CANADA (613)834-8587 (1:243/95)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 157 of 469
 From : GERRY NORMANDEAU                    1:243/95        .îí 22 .þë 96 00:15
 To   : BOB KLAHN
 Subj : MINBARI AND B5
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Standing at the gallows pole Bob Klahn spat a curse on Gerry Normandeau, accusi
g him of MINBARI AND B5!

 BK>> That would require Valen planned the war that killed so many. That
 BK>> would require a great conspiracy. Which I would never rule out.

 GN> Acctually a conspiracy of this type would be known only to a selet few
 GN> in the gray council. If they new. Dukat could have been the only one
 GN> in the know. This is not dificult if he, as has been said, received
 GN> one of valins letters. The rest will follow nateraly because it has
 GN> already happened in time and is just following along as it should. The
 GN> more people you tell the bigger the chance you change history.

 BK> By great conspiracy I am speaking of the quality, not the size. Any
 BK> conspiracy should be as small as possible.

 BK> I think your analysis is fairly accurate. We can test it on our next
 BK> time trip.

 BK> BOB KLAHN

Great! When do we leave? I'll have my bags packed by last week! :)

________________________________________________________________________
|  _______    |                   GERRY NORMANDEAU                     |
|  []    |    |   cn754@freenet.carlton.ca / Vanier, Ontario, CANADA   |
|  []    O    |~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~|
|  []   /|\   |Royal Hangman To His Majesty King Bruno The Questionable|
|  []   / \   |~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~|
|  []         |        "ALWAYS ROOM FOR ONE MORE, ME'LORD!"            |
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
... "The owner of a police box please move it? It is blocking eternity."s

___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20
--- Platinum Xpress/Wildcat! v1.2j
 * Origin: The OFFSPRING BBS! Orleans, Ontario CANADA (613)834-8587 (1:243/95)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 158 of 469
 From : Mark Jones                          1:105/302.47    .cê 14 .þë 96 12:54
 To   : Jeff Hancock
 Subj : but about models...
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On (12 Jul 96) Jeff Hancock wrote to Leman Russ...

 JH> I wonder, if 3-D TVs ever became practical, how they would handle
 JH> filming.  Even with the necessary omission of the "fourth wall", and
 JH> sometimes the ceiling, that still creates a problem of camera
 JH> placement.

   Not really.  By the time practical (and visually acceptable) 3D
televisions come into existence, they'll be able to use CGI to
generate the entire image.  A CGI image exists only as data on a
computer, which is then displayed on a monitor (or on film); why not
do the same with 3D imaging systems?


--- PPoint 1.78
 * Origin: Folcroft Sanitarium (hsmith@cure.com) (1:105/302.47)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 159 of 469
 From : Mark Jones                          1:105/302.47    .pä 17 .þë 96 22:11
 To   : Lis Carey
 Subj : CANCELLED
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On (14 Jul 96) Lis Carey wrote to Gerry Normandeau...

 LC> And economics often is the key, though not quite the way you
 LC> meant. A single assault on DS9, that's driven off and not
 LC> accompanied by attacks elsewhere, is merely provocative; threaten
 LC> the wormhole, and you're threatening what the Federation regards
 LC> as a "vital interest" because of the potential for trade once
 LC> they deal with the Dominion.

   Both the Feds and the Klingons missed a bet.  If the Klingons were
*really* worried about the Dominion, they'd have flown a single ship
into the wormhole and detonated the warp drive, collapsing the
wormhole and cutting off the dominion from Alpha Quadrant permanently.
   The Romulans were smart enough to figure this out, but after trying
and failing--once--they've apparently given up on it.  (Realistically,
it is the easiest option, and one they'd not give up on.  A cloaked
ship could be into the wormhole--and exploded--before anyone could
stop them.)

 LC>  * OLX 2.1 TD * An armed society is a frightened society.

A disarmed society is a society of cowards.


--- PPoint 1.78
 * Origin: Folcroft Sanitarium (hsmith@cure.com) (1:105/302.47)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 160 of 469
 From : Jeff Hancock                        1:3600/7        .cê 21 .þë 96 15:42
 To   : Nicolai Shapero
 Subj : Japanese SF
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

NS> JH>Would you be speaking of titles, pure footage in hours, or just
NS> JH>based on availability? ;)
NS>Combination of hours and availability.  I've known about Dirty Pair

Actually I kind of had a mental miscue at the time and was thinking
about the SF that gets discussed here; since one of the themes was why
anime almost never seemed to get talked about.  There are, of course,
hundreds of SF movies and any number of older shows which rarely, if
ever, get mentioned here.  It's a matter of public awareness and
reminders through duplication by newer works.

NS>(which I've got).  But the series had far more episodes than what's

Twenty-six, is what I've heard.  Still not a whopping amount...
basically one season's worth nowadays, and each episode being half the
length of your average TV SF today.  Of course, it _was_ essentially a
comedy as opposed to a drama...

NS>been translated. Compare this with the number of SF films and series
NS>already IN English to start with...

I have no flippin' idea how much there is of either.  Someone once got
me an "encylopedia of TV/Movie SF" but I don't know where it is...
remember that it included just about all the James Bond movies though.
;-)

Anyway, as far as new material, the movie "Tenchi Muyo In Love" is due
to be coming out soon.  I don't know much about the series except that
it has some bizarre SF elements which as a whole probably qualify the
series as "B-movie Sci-Fi" if nothing else, except that it is amusing.
I haven't been able to see more than the first ep of the series, but if
anyone here gets the movie, I'd like to know if it's easily accessable
to someone who doesn't know all the characters and back-story.

The soundtrack is by Christopher Franke, so that at least should be
worth hearing.
-=-
 * Crazy-J * Live action Starblazers?!  SHIMATTA!!  DISNEY NO BAKA!!!

--- SLMAIL v3.5C  (#1540)
 * Origin: Robotech  -=-Fansubbed anime available upon request-=- (1:3600/7)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 161 of 469
 From : David Little                        1:106/7315      .îí 22 .þë 96 08:50
 To   : Michael Harper
 Subj : CGI vs Models
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
-=< Michael Harper used the Jedi Mind Trick on me!>=-


 DL> Actually, when B5 started CGI cost more. Now it's about the
 DL> same. You have to realize most of the cost in CGI is the computation
 DL> time in drawing the individual frames.
 MH> True; rendering takes awhile.  But if they'd done the pilot with
 MH> models, it would've taken a lot longer, and you have to compute your
 MH> man-hours for construction of the models into the cost. Hiring a big
 MH> effects company like ILM would've killed the whole thing; Barry
 MH> Diller would've looked at the proposed budget and laughed hysterically
 MH> just before he threw Joe and Doug out the window...
 MH> Y'know how much B5 spends on fx in a episode? About a third of what
 MH> Paramount spends on your average episode of DS9. Believe me, it's a
 MH> lot cheaper. Pretty much always has been.

        But like you said, DS9 is doing their special effects through ILM,
while B5 does theirs through a small company that started just for B5.

 MH> I'm the first to admit that there are things you can do with models
 MH> that you really can't do with CGI, although in my fatigued state I
 MH> really can't think of what...
 MH> I finally got a job; I'm working for a FedEx contractor as a file
 MH> clerk, and they're wearing my elderly ass out...

        Do like I do when they work your ass too hard...show it to them!!!

                                        -=The DoLittle 8-)=-


... Sex is a killer... so die happy!
--- Blue Wave/DOS v2.30 [NR]
 * Origin: The Wizards Realm BBS 1-713-946-7315 1:106/7315 (1:106/7315)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 162 of 469
 From : Bob Klahn                           1:234/2         .îí 22 .þë 96 19:29
 To   : Steven Ross
 Subj : BY FORCE OF ARMS
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 SR>  On 07-16-96 Bob Klahn wrote to Kay Shapero...
 SR>
BK>>  What I should have said is, "the objective in a war *should be* to
BK>> defeat the enemy." All too often we go for limited objectives.
 SR>
 SR>         Ah, but in a perfect world there wouldn't be wars.

  As long as we live in a world where there are wars, we should try to do it
  right.

BK>>> If you want a war where both sides win, that implies both sides
BK>>>are morally equal.

KS>> Usually in a war both sides *are* morally equal.  One side has

BK>>  In the past, before a few hundred years ago, that was true.

 SR>
 SR>         I think I'll have to agree with Kay this point. I haven't
 SR>         noticed any significant change in human nature in the last few
 SR>         hundred years historicly. Its just gotten easier wage wars.

 Not a change in human nature, but a change in human organization. The
 existance of democracy as a major force in the world.

KS>> something the other side wants so the latter goes after it. Or there's
KS>> something both sides happen to want and they go after each other for
KS>> it. Looked at objectively, war is rarely a matter of the good guys vs
 SR>
BK>>  It wasn't that way, it is now. There are good guys now.
 SR>
 SR>         Define, good guys, without using western morality, philosphy or
 SR> politics.

 Why? Since western morality, philosophy and politics are the ones I live in,
 why shouldn't I use them? Can you think of a philosophy that exists without
 any ethnic or national link?

 But, since western morality, philosophy and politics are so superior they
 now dominate the world stage...

 SR>
KS>> the bad guys. Tell me - are the Serbs or the Croats the "good guys"?
 SR>
BK>>  The Serbs are the "bad guys", the Muslims are the "Less Bad Guys",
BK>> the Croats are wavering, or seem to be.
 SR>
 SR>         Yet, Croats have on occasion committed some of the same crimes
 SR>         that the Serbs have, for meny of the same reasons. You should
 SR>         also remember that many of the old Serbs remember when the
 SR>         Croats worked for the SS death squads.

 Correction, some Croats worked for the SS death squads over 50 years ago.
 Most Croats alive today hadn't even been born then.

BK>>  A few hundred years ago, that may well have been true, it's not today.
 SR>
 SR>         Why is not true today?

 Today democracy is the driving force in the world.

KS>> it's the winners who write the history books.
 SR>
 SR>         In modern parlance one could add: Whomever has the best PR man
 SR>         is the one history will call morally right.
 SR>
BK>>  There are too many people still alive from the 20th century wars for
BK>> the history books to fudge the facts.
 SR>
 SR>         Your assuming someone tells their storys. What happens when the
 SR> camera turns away is quickly forgotten.

 Not possible, if *YOU* listen when they speak.

BK>>  Nothing a dictatorship does is legitimate, because a dictatorship is
BK>> not legitimate.
 SR>
 SR>         That depends who you ask.

 Ask me, I'll tell you.

 BTW, if the dictatorship made a habit of asking they wouldn't be a
 dictatorship.

BK>>  If two democracies go to war with each other then you may well have a
BK>> case of two morally equal opponents, but I can't think of an example.
 SR>
 SR>         But, there are no TRUE democracies anymore. The closest thing
 SR>         to a true democracy in modern politics are the works of Karl
 SR>         Marx.

 When were there ever a TRUE democracy? I don't ask for perfection. The US is
 a democracy, as are the nations of Western Europe.  Japan also, and some
 others.

BOB KLAHN   bob.klahn@toltbbs.com

... All the ills of democracy can be cured by more democracy.
 * Silver Xpress V4.3P RB10275

--- FLAME v1.1
 * Origin: Telnet toltbbs.com or call 313-854-6001, Boardwatch #55 (1:234/2)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 163 of 469
 From : Bob Klahn                           1:234/2         .îí 22 .þë 96 19:29
 To   : Todd Sullivan
 Subj : CANCELLED
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 TS> Reports from the Interior indicate that Bob Klahn leaked the following
 TS> to Jeff Hancock, re: CANCELLED

 BK>> and that
 BK>>  his own body was 98% water. He withdrew into his bottle in a catatonic
 BK>>  state. Now, that's a phobia.

 BK>>  Somebody, I forget who, pointed out that people who fear nuclear power
 BK>>  should consider the fact that a nuclear reactor of unimaginable size
 BK>> and power is operating just a few miles under our feet.

 TS> Never mind the fusion reactor sitting 93 million miles away...

 But it is a *fusion* reactor. All it produces is helium, and, of course,
 lots and lots of heat. Well, maybe a few trace elements.

BOB KLAHN   bob.klahn@toltbbs.com

... In the long run we're all dead.   J.M. Keynes.
 * Silver Xpress V4.3P RB10275

--- FLAME v1.1
 * Origin: Telnet toltbbs.com or call 313-854-6001, Boardwatch #55 (1:234/2)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 164 of 469
 From : Bob Klahn                           1:234/2         .îí 22 .þë 96 19:29
 To   : Jeff Hancock
 Subj : CANCELLED
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
BK>>BK>> I had never thought of it that way, but it does sound depraved.
BK>> JH> That's me.
BK>> Conceited....

 JH> Are you saying you're more sick and twisted than I am?  Well, then, more
 JH> power to you!  ;-)

 Oh, heaven forbid. Even I am not that conceited.

BOB KLAHN   bob.klahn@toltbbs.com

... Take a chance, smileys are only for the spineless.
 * Silver Xpress V4.3P RB10275

--- FLAME v1.1
 * Origin: Telnet toltbbs.com or call 313-854-6001, Boardwatch #55 (1:234/2)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 165 of 469
 From : Bob Klahn                           1:234/2         .îí 22 .þë 96 19:29
 To   : Michael Harper
 Subj : B5 RENEWED
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 MH> While sipping a dry martini, Bob Klahn told Michael Harper about B5
 MH> RENEWED...
 BK>> They treat Amerind culture as if it were all the same all over the
 BK>> country, and as if the pop culture version was the reality. It's a
 BK>> 'New Age' version of an ancient tradition, and a corruption of it.

 BK>> They exploit it, they don't respect it.

 MH>  Exactamundo. I'm only adopted Cheyenne, and know very little about my
 MH>  people, but I know H'wood. They figure that the mass audience doesn't
 MH>  know a damn thing about native culture, and they can cobble up some
 MH>  kinda bullshit substitute that the masses will accept. Problem is,
 MH>  there are a few of us who know the real thing from a cheap copy...

 They do the same to Asians. I say they hire their Asian actors from the "We
 All Look Alike Talent Agency".

 MH>  Last night I saw part two of "Anasazi", the X-Files three-parter.
 MH>  Mulder's near-death vision was so well done it was amazing. Carter
 MH>  should be commended for doing his research, and for hiring Floyd Red
 MH>  Crow Westerman and some real Navajos to play those roles. Good job,
 MH>  Chris. We're proud of you.

 The Native Cultural parts may be good, the paranoia central parts are
 totally awful.

 I have come to the conclusion that I have to charge agents Scully and
 Muldaur with cowardice. His father is killed, his sister kidnapped, his
 mother in the hospital, her sister is killed, their co-workers are killed,
 lots of innocent civilians are killed or disappear, and they make a "deal"
 to assure their survival. If it was me I would have declared war on the
 guitly parties. The do run across some of them once in a while.

 MH> ... Most of us are products of over a century of government schooling.

 They did a good job, too.

BOB KLAHN   bob.klahn@toltbbs.com

... Silah sahibine bile du"s_mandir.           Turkish Proverb.
 * Silver Xpress V4.3P RB10275

--- FLAME v1.1
 * Origin: Telnet toltbbs.com or call 313-854-6001, Boardwatch #55 (1:234/2)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 166 of 469
 From : Bob Klahn                           1:234/2         .îí 22 .þë 96 19:29
 To   : Frank Glover
 Subj : CANCELLED
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 FG>    The classic of course is Niven's `The Theory and Practice of
 FG>    Teleportation" in the `All the Myriad Ways' anthology. Hemuch
 FG>    prefers to warp a piece of space from here to there, rather than
 FG>    take people apart, and beam their mass-energy (or just the
 FG>    information) around.

 I believe that's the basic principle Heinlein used in a novel I forget the
 name of. I much prefer that method.

BOB KLAHN   bob.klahn@toltbbs.com

... Race is an idea whose time has passed. <New People Magazine>
 * Silver Xpress V4.3P RB10275

--- FLAME v1.1
 * Origin: Telnet toltbbs.com or call 313-854-6001, Boardwatch #55 (1:234/2)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 167 of 469
 From : Nicolai Shapero                     1:102/524       .òp 23 .þë 96 05:38
 To   : Leman Russ
 Subj : Realistic space scenes
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Jul 19 05:18>, Leman Russ (1:2250/7) wrote to All:

 LR> Point 1: A lot of the old moon landing pix were taken with very
 LR>old equipment that lacked todayays resolution.

The photos taken were taken with equipment better than either of us is ever
likely to have.  The films, ditto.  Only the direct TV broadcasts were poor.

-- Nicolai Shapero, the Mad Russian Sysop of StormGate Aerie

--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 168 of 469
 From : Bill Hedrick                        1:282/26        .òp 23 .þë 96 10:28
 To   : Michael Harper
 Subj : Re: Cgi Vs Models
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
In a message dated 07-20-96 MICHAEL HARPER wrote to BILL HEDRICK:

 BH> Actually if it's _good_ CGI it looks indistinguishable from a model.
 BH> Voyager uses a lot of CGI (or so I'm told); try to pick it out from
 BH> model-work....

 MH>  I'm not surprised. If ILM is doing the digital compositing, then
 MH> it'll  be seamless. Lucas is always on the lookout for better and
 MH> more  versatile methods of doing effects; his reliance on CGI for
 MH> some of the  Voyager f/x is not the least bit unexpected...

You know, I don't really give a targ's butt about the pro/anti CGI arguement
that's semi-raging here. If the effect looks good, that's all I care about.
I thought i was seeing some matte lines in ID4, but it went by so quickly
I couldn't tell for sure.
Ciao,
  BILL

 -> Alice4Mac 2.4 E QWK Eval:22Mar96

--- RA 1.11+/GEcho 1.02+
 * Origin: Science Fiction BBS * Rosemount, MN * (612)423-7358 (1:282/26)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 169 of 469
 From : Frank Swarbrick                     1:104/825       .îí 22 .þë 96 21:58
 To   : All
 Subj : Warped In Space
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12  92-0022
Did anyone watch the show Warped In Space on the Sci-Fi Channel last
week?  Definately warped!  Only problem is, it was neither very funny
nor very interesting.

        Frank

... No one can hear when you're Screaming in Digital!
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12
 * Origin: The Bailey Information Exchange BBS, 28.8k v.fc  (1:104/825.0)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 170 of 469
 From : David Johnston                      1:342/14        .pä 24 .þë 96 00:49
 To   : Kay Shapero
 Subj : By Force Of Arms
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
-> They've gotten bigger and more people notice them because
-> communications have improved.  But, for example, the US Civil War was
-> not fought over slavery (that particular interpretation is a more
-> modern one.  Personally, I'll settle for being glad it's *gone*
-> without needing to modify history too.).  Mostly it was fought
-> because the southern states wanted to leave the union and the
-> northern states didn't want them to leave.  Not sure who

<sigh>  And WHY did the southern states want to leave?

--- PCBoard (R) v15.21/100
 * Origin: Freddy's Place - Edm. AB - 33.6K (403) 413-3460 (1:342/14)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 171 of 469
 From : David Johnston                      1:342/14        .pä 24 .þë 96 00:51
 To   : Bob Klahn
 Subj : Cancelled
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
-> TS> Never mind the fusion reactor sitting 93 million miles away...
-> But it is a *fusion* reactor. All it produces is helium, and, of
-> course, lots and lots of heat. Well, maybe a few trace elements.

Actually fusion reactions do produce radiation.

--- PCBoard (R) v15.21/100
 * Origin: Freddy's Place - Edm. AB - 33.6K (403) 413-3460 (1:342/14)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 172 of 469
 From : Brion Lienhart                      1:213/700.2     .òp 23 .þë 96 10:15
 To   : All
 Subj : Mulitiplicity
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
I went to see this last weekend, and liked it quite a bit. Despite the cloning
premise, it's not really an SF movie. They don't even attempt to explain the
cloning process, it's just a plot device. The movie is really a romantic farce,
but it's a pretty good one with lots of funny bits.



--- QM v1.31
 * Origin: Ministry of Peace - Carson City, NV (1:213/700.2)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 173 of 469
 From : Ken Mayes                           1:393/7         .pä 24 .þë 96 07:32
 To   : Bill Hedrick
 Subj : Re: CGI vs Models
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On Tue 23-Jul-1996 10:28a, Bill Hedrick said to Michael Harper:

BH> You know, I don't really give a targ's butt about the pro/anti CGI
BH> arguement
BH> that's semi-raging here. If the effect looks good, that's all I care
BH> about.
BH> I thought i was seeing some matte lines in ID4, but it went by so quickly
BH> I couldn't tell for sure.


        I saw them too. One scene in particular that jumped out at me was one in
which you saw a couple of the FA-18's flying toward you while one of the alien
ships exploded behind them. Like you said it came and went in less than a
second, but those matte lines were definitely there.



--- CNet/3
 * Origin: The Bard's Tavern Denton, TX (817)243-5110 USR 28.8   (1:393/7)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 174 of 469
 From : Bill Hedrick                        1:282/26        .òp 23 .þë 96 14:38
 To   : Leman Russ
 Subj : Re: Klingons
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
In a message dated 07-21-96 LEMAN RUSS wrote to GERRY NORMANDEAU:

 LR>  What you have to remember is that klingons are very stupid and quite
 LR> cowardly, not to mention barbaric in all ways. Their stupidity
 LR> explains their idiotic methods of attack, their cowardice explains
 LR> why they run when the odds aren;t ontheir side and their barbarism
 LR> explains why they send over boarding parties.

 LR>  Basicalally they want to take things intact with BPs because its
 LR> more fun to have trophies, take prisoners to use as slaves and to
 LR> loot higher tech installations. Also they, being animals, probably
 LR> prefer face to face kills over blowing thingsa up with ship weapons.

 LR>  People talk about klingon courage and warrior abilities. The only
 LR> klingon with any guts is worf, and he was raised by humans. Other
 LR> klings talk a good fight, but usually lose badly unless the odds were
 LR> on their side. When the odds are fair, klings ruor get stomped.

That's what you get for watching Feddie propaganda Leman.....


Qob vestai-Hurric
XO IKV RakeHell
DaH yImej!

 -> Alice4Mac 2.4 E QWK Eval:22Mar96

--- RA 1.11+/GEcho 1.02+
 * Origin: Science Fiction BBS * Rosemount, MN * (612)423-7358 (1:282/26)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 175 of 469
 From : Don Bach                            1:3632/65       .îí 22 .þë 96 19:59
 To   : Kay Shapero
 Subj : By Force OF Arms
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 KS> Forget what you see in fiction - real war is almost
 KS> never a matter of good guys vs bad guys though WWII
 KS> came close.  Always remembering that it's the winners
 KS> who write the history books.

First, I'm a German American (try finding that on any Census listing!).

One of my Dad's cousins toured Germany in the middle '30s with the Hitler Youth.
He thought they were just like American Boy Scouts.

I believe most wars are just simply an entity trying to gain neighbor's
territory - nothing more - nothing less.  Revolutions are the exception, whereby
a large segment of citizens want a new government.

The territorial disputes in recent U.S. history:  The War of 1812, many wars
with American Indian Nations, the War of Northern Aggression, the
Spanish-American War, the Great War, World War II, The Korean Police Action, the
Vietnam Police Action, the War in Angola, the Persian Gulf War.

Taking of territory owned by others is against the principles of most people in
the world, unless they are the people doing the taking.

Don


--- Maximus 3.01
 * Origin: No Regrets, Clinton, MS (601)924-8247 9P-5A (1:3632/65)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 176 of 469
 From : Michael Harper                      1:123/10        .òp 23 .þë 96 21:48
 To   : Frank Glover
 Subj : Scheduling SF shows
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
While sipping a dry martini, Frank Glover told Michael Harper about
Scheduling SF shows...

 FG> If (Gods forbid!) that should happen, one wonders if they'd have a
 FG> major series finale? Will the `Cancer Man' finally quit? Will Scully
 FG> quit the FBI in disgust, and get a job as a stripper? Will Mulder
 FG> break everything wide open by crash landing a UFO at the Super Bowl?
 FG> And with respect to how Mulder finally dies...what did that guy say
 FG> about autoerotic asphyxiation....??

 No, I expect Cancerman will do a full public confession after joining
 the priesthood, and Mulder will break everything wide open by crash
 landing a UFO during the first game of the World Series. The reason for
 the crash is because Mulder and his alien girlfriend were having sex in
 orbit, and they zagged when they shoulda zigged.

 And yes, Scully will become a stripper.

 Unless, of course, Carter has something even more bizarre in mind...

 Typing all this in with a completely straight face,

 Mike


... "I suddenly feel the urge to strut my funky stuff!"
--- RA/FD/FMail
 * Origin: The Eclectic Fox -- Memphis TN  (901)327-1008 (1:123/10)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 177 of 469
 From : Michael Harper                      1:123/10        .òp 23 .þë 96 21:48
 To   : Ken Mayes
 Subj : CGI vs Models
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
While sipping a dry martini, Ken Mayes told Michael Harper about CGI vs
Models...

 KM> It's ironic that most of the Enterprise footage for TOS was
 KM> done 'In house' by the production team that actually did the show but
 KM> they contracted out to do the Romulan ship. Watch Balance of Terror,
 KM> the episode which first used the Romulan ships and you'll notice a
 KM> distinct difference in quality between the Romulan footage and the
 KM> Enterprise footage (the Romulan footage is much better IMHO.)
 KM> The next time the Romulans were used, in the second season episode
 KM> "Deadly Years" they simply rehashed the old stock footage.

 Hm... I'm playing that footage back in my mind, and you're right. The
 Romulan bits are much cleaner and better done...

 KM> The Klingon ship that turned up in the third season was carved
 KM> by Matt Jefferies out of a solid block of wood and had no internal
 KM> lighting at all. Interesting tidbit. Since they did not show the
 KM> original episodes in the same order as they were filmed, the final
 KM> result was that the first time the Klingon ship was actually seen 'on
 KM> screen' in a televised episode, it was in "Enterprise Incident" and
 KM> the ships were crewed by Romulans. The first episode 'filmed' with the
 KM> new Klingon ship was 'Day of the Dove' but it wasn't actually
 KM> broadcast until a few weeks after Enterprise Incident. :)

 A solid block of wood?!? Damn. I knew Matt was good, but this is
 unreal.

 Having the new model turn up like that, out of shooting sequence, is
 not a big surprise. Studios do that sort of thing a lot, more so back
 then than now.

 Solid wood. Jeez...

... "Ten chocolate sundaes.  I'm in a really bad mood." -- Q
--- RA/FD/FMail
 * Origin: The Eclectic Fox -- Memphis TN  (901)327-1008 (1:123/10)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 178 of 469
 From : Leman Russ                          1:2250/7        .îí 22 .þë 96 23:26
 To   : All
 Subj : The sci-fi channel?
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 I saw some ofthe SF channel on Intro, and I have some problems with it.

 First, I watched some reruns of BSG and was dismayed to see how badly they'd
cut it up to make room for commercials. In fact they cut out a scene I was
wanting to see, so I noticed it was missing. It's terrible to cut whole scenes
out of classic s shows justto make room for ----ing commericals, and I;d hoped
that the SF channel, being cable, wouldn't do this, but they seem to, unless it
happens only onthe intro version.

 Secondly, the damn channel is hogging just about every single bit of decent SF
and fantasy in syndication. I haven't seen a TOS ep in years, and the twilight
zone and outer limits, which used to live in syndication along with trek?
They're now for SF channel viewers only.

 I can;t get the sf channel thanks to my worthless cable coany, but the SF
channel is pulling damn near all the good old shows out of circulation. This
really sucks for people hwo can;t getthe Sf channel.

>:[

--- DLG Pro v1.0/DLGMail
 * Origin: Sage's Tower - Amiga - (618) 259-1844 (1:2250/7)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 179 of 469
 From : Leman Russ                          1:2250/7        .òp 23 .þë 96 04:15
 To   : Jeff Hancock
 Subj : Re: Japanese SF
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 Well, I still liked the TBS version of VHD, even tho I agree about the blatant
violence cutting and the flaws in the version I saw. Still, it was Ok, except
for the scene where the castle imploded. That animation was awful.

>:[

--- DLG Pro v1.0/DLGMail
 * Origin: Sage's Tower - Amiga - (618) 259-1844 (1:2250/7)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 180 of 469
 From : Leman Russ                          1:2250/7        .òp 23 .þë 96 04:17
 To   : Patrick Duda
 Subj : Re: Realistic space scenes
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 Well, the F16s in ID4 were models that had been HEAVILY bitmapped wiith
digitized brushes of real fighters, so it was current tech using brushes and
bitmapps more extensively.

 As to the number, I think, under the circumstances, thatthey would have used
every thing they had, so that wasn;t a real flaw.

 Space:1999 was a british Gerry Andersen SF series done inthe mid 70s. The first
season was cool, the second was pretty silly. Watch some if you get a chance,
the sets and SFX were mostly good, with the exception of a few cheapies and some
silly aliens. The eagles were some ofthe most realistic looking spacecraft ever
done, IMNSHO.

>:[

--- DLG Pro v1.0/DLGMail
 * Origin: Sage's Tower - Amiga - (618) 259-1844 (1:2250/7)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 181 of 469
 From : Ruben Provoost                      2:292/628       .cê 21 .þë 96 01:26
 To   : Kay Shapero
 Subj : Sitcom stars
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Yo Kay!

In a SubSpace message of Sunday July 07 1996, Kay Shapero writes to Jared
Callanan:

 KS> Can't comment on the movie, not having seen it yet, but just out of
 KS> curiosity what sitcom did Brent Spiner act in?

I've seen him in a Cheers episode (an old one, still with Diane), but I can't
remember what kind of character he played, it was almost 2 years ago I saw it.
And he also played a porn movie director in an episode of Hill Street Blues, I
know it's not a sitcom, but it was really weird seeing "Data" interested in
those things :)

  Ruben Provoost [JMJ]  -  USS Aurora

--- GoldEd
 * Origin: Ensign Ro, please report to my quarters (2:292/628)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 182 of 469
 From : Jeff Hancock                        1:3600/7        .òp 23 .þë 96 19:16
 To   : Todd Sullivan
 Subj : Japanese SF
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

TS>There are several flavors of Cyberpunk, Jeff.  Some are more or less
TS>hard- edged than William Gibson's stuff, is all.

Well, yes... Bubblegum Crisis usually gets defined as CP, but I still
like what I've heard.  However, what I've heard about Ghost in the Shell
usually seems to mention an excess of talking heads arguing philosophy
issues, and the whole "machine soul" thing is frequently an issue I'd
just as rather not cover.  AI, yes, "personality", perhaps, soul?  We
should worry about whether we've got one or not first.

Now the day a robot is fired up and suddenly takes on the personality of
someone recently deceased, far out of proportion to any possible amount
of programming, then we've got something. ;-)

-=-
 * Crazy-J * Hermaphrodites can poke fun at themselves.

--- SLMAIL v3.5C  (#1540)
 * Origin: Robotech  -=-Fansubbed anime available upon request-=- (1:3600/7)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 183 of 469
 From : Jeff Hancock                        1:3600/7        .òp 23 .þë 96 19:37
 To   : Michael Harper
 Subj : Japanese SF
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

MH> JH> I don't mind, but I have to be honest, you can just as easily go
MH> JH>one step up to the fansubber.  He charges a buck more per tape
MH> Yeah, but I don't know him. I know you. I'll deal with you.

You know me?  Really? ;)

I just felt I should mention it, because if you're picky about quality,
you can't get a fansub any better than from the person who did it.  The
ultra-picky often request SVHS copies, from fansubbers who create SVHS
masters from laserdisk imports.  But I'm only one step down and have
4-head VCRs, so it's not like it'll be too bad.

MH> JH> This is _not_ business.  It's a favor for the fans.  The money
MH> I dig. Bad choice of terms. Even if you won the lottery, though, you

Don't mean to be touchy, but "selling" for "profit" is a very picky
issue among the fansubbing community, and for good reason, since they
spend a lot of money on the equipment and LDs involved, not to mention
the incredible amount of time in translating and timing the subtitles.
They do it for the fans, and for someone to sell them at a profit would
be completely reprehensible.

If I won the lottery I'd probably have other concerns on my mind, ;)
but I'd at least cook up a sampler tape and give away copies as a teaser
incentive.  "Want some anime?  First one's free..."

MH> JH> web access, you can get in touch with other fansubbers/traders.
MH> Find me a local one if you can.

I don't know if there are any, but the thing is, those four all have
reasonable prices, policies, and quality (far as I can tell), and
they're all people I've dealt with before.  I'll add a fifth to the list
assuming I ever get the tapes I requested. ;)  Of course, the downside
is that they are in demand as a result and frequently have backlogs
which will guarantee at least a month's turnaround.

Got two SF-based series the other day, Gundam 0083 (1-4 of 13) and
Irresponsible Captain Taylor (1-4 of 36?), but I haven't had the chance
to view them yet.  Gundam is apparently an elaborate space drama
(opera?) with plenty of mecha action, Taylor is an SF parody of a guy
who gets his own starship command by chance (but it's a junker) and
bumbles his way to glory regardless.  I'm looking forward to them both.

-=-
 * Crazy-J * "Alas, poor Naranek!  I knew him, Sheridan...."

--- SLMAIL v3.5C  (#1540)
 * Origin: Robotech  -=-Fansubbed anime available upon request-=- (1:3600/7)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 184 of 469
 From : Xerxes Aragon                       1:218/604       .pä 24 .þë 96 18:48
 To   : Brion Lienhart
 Subj : The sf channel
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.REALNAME: Rick Jones

 BL> Congress didn't require any such thing. The FCC
 BL> requires stations to broadcast a certain amount of
 BL> educational content during the hours when children
 BL> supposedly watch TV. The producers and stations

"Gosh, Mr. Wizard! What are we going to do today?"

"Today we're going to teach the boys and girls out there how to build a pipe
bomb out the things found under Mommy's kitchen and bathroom sinks. Go and get
that bottle of chlorine bleach and..."




"We are being flimflammed by Bill Gates and his partners. Look at Windows 95.
That's a lot of flimflam, you know."
   -Ray Bradbury

--- Maximus/2 2.02
 * Origin: The Bucket of Blood * Pomona, CA (1:218/604)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 185 of 469
 From : Nicolai Shapero                     1:102/524       .pä 24 .þë 96 07:02
 To   : GERRY NORMANDEAU
 Subj : By Force OF Arms
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Jul 21 17:35>, GERRY NORMANDEAU (1:243/95) wrote to KAY SHAPERO:

 GN>_________________________________________________________________
 GN>_______
 GN>|  _______    |                   GERRY NORMANDEAU
 GN>|
 GN>|  []    |    |   cn754@freenet.carlton.ca / Vanier, Ontario,
 GN>CANADA   |
 GN>|  []    O
 GN>|~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~|
 GN>|  []   /|\   |Royal Hangman To His Majesty King Bruno The
 GN>Questionable|
 GN>|  []   / \
 GN>|~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~|
 GN>|  []         |        "ALWAYS ROOM FOR ONE MORE, ME'LORD!"
 GN>|
 GN>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
 GN>~~~~~~~
 GN>... AD&D FLW: "Golly, I always wanted to be a hero!"

Multi-line signatures may be the rule on Usenet, but on Fidonet they are
discouraged.  On this conference, they are a direct violation of the rules for
the conference.  Please drop the multi-line signature in future.

Thank you for your cooperation,

-- Nicolai Shapero, Moderator of the SFFAN echo

--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 186 of 469
 From : Kay Shapero                         1:102/524       .pä 24 .þë 96 13:29
 To   : Bill Hedrick
 Subj : Re: Cgi Vs Models
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Jul 23 10:28>, Bill Hedrick (1:282/26) wrote to Michael Harper:

 BH>You know, I don't really give a targ's butt about the pro/anti
 BH>CGI arguement
 BH>that's semi-raging here. If the effect looks good, that's all I
 BH>care about.

Actually that's what the argument is about - whether or not CGI looks good.  I'm
with you - if it works, I don't really care how it got on the screen.  What
annoys me about effects is when they're used to carry the movie, and everything
else is subordinated to them, witness Jurassic Park, where the script was
written, re-written, re-re-written and generally mangled during most of the
filming process, until it existed only as an excuse to get from one setpiece to
the next.  The dinosaurs were great but effects alone simply aren't enough.

--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 187 of 469
 From : Bob Klahn                           1:234/2         .pä 24 .þë 96 19:00
 To   : Gerry Normandeau
 Subj : CANCELLED
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 GN> The useof the transporter is the most cockeyed atemped at story ballence
 GN> they ever came up with. For one, to have any adventure they always

 I was told it was because the transporter was cheaper than the fx of landing
 a shuttle on the planet.

 GN> had to knock the thing off line every second episode. After seeing
 GN> what happenes to that piece of equipment, I now know why the Dr. feels

 Having spent most of 30 years making equipment work, I have come up with a
 philosophy to cover it.

 Sooner or later, everything breaks.

BOB KLAHN   bob.klahn@toltbbs.com

... This tagline is identical to the one you are reading.
 * Silver Xpress V4.3P RB10275

--- FLAME v1.1
 * Origin: Telnet toltbbs.com or call 313-854-6001, Boardwatch #55 (1:234/2)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 188 of 469
 From : Bob Klahn                           1:234/2         .pä 24 .þë 96 19:00
 To   : Gerry Normandeau
 Subj : MINBARI AND B5
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 BK>> By great conspiracy I am speaking of the quality, not the size. Any
 BK>> conspiracy should be as small as possible.

 BK>> I think your analysis is fairly accurate. We can test it on our next
 BK>> time trip.

 GN> Great! When do we leave? I'll have my bags packed by last week! :)

 Sorry, your reply arrived too late. Left this morning, got back yesterday.

BOB KLAHN   bob.klahn@toltbbs.com

... Picard: There's ice striking the hull!  Worf: We're being hailed.
 * Silver Xpress V4.3P RB10275

--- FLAME v1.1
 * Origin: Telnet toltbbs.com or call 313-854-6001, Boardwatch #55 (1:234/2)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 189 of 469
 From : Frank Glover                        1:2613/477      .òp 23 .þë 96 21:45
 To   : Bob Klahn
 Subj : Re: CANCELLED
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

BK>   FG>    The classic of course is Niven's `The Theory and Practice of
BK>   FG>    Teleportation" in the `All the Myriad Ways' anthology. Hemuch
BK>   FG>    prefers to warp a piece of space from here to there, rather
BK>  than
BK>   FG>    take people apart, and beam their mass-energy (or just the
BK>   FG>    information) around.
BK>
BK>   I believe that's the basic principle Heinlein used in a novel I
BK>  forget the
BK>   name of. I much prefer that method.

   Sounds like `Tunnel in the Sky.'

   Frank


--- QuickBBS 2.81 GoldBase (Zeta-2.0)
 * Origin: The Matrix Data Bank BBS, Rochester, Ny (1:2613/477)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 190 of 469
 From : Frank Glover                        1:2613/477      .òp 23 .þë 96 22:06
 To   : Bob Klahn
 Subj : Re: CANCELLED
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

BK>   BK>>  Somebody, I forget who, pointed out that people who fear
BK>  nuclear power
BK>   BK>>  should consider the fact that a nuclear reactor of
BK>  unimaginable size
BK>   BK>> and power is operating just a few miles under our feet.
BK>
BK>   TS> Never mind the fusion reactor sitting 93 million miles away...
BK>
BK>   But it is a *fusion* reactor. All it produces is helium, and, of
BK>  course,
BK>   lots and lots of heat. Well, maybe a few trace elements.

   True, as far as that goes. But when I made a similar statement, I was getting
at those who consider `nuclear' power dangerous,and solar, benign. I consider
myself a solar enthusiast too, but I'm aware it's a natural, unshielded fusion
reactor that tosses occasional flares of subatomic particles, hazardous to
organics and solid state electronics outside the atmosphere, and all the more
so, beyond Earth's magnetic fields.

   And most importantly, emits enough ultraviolet, even before ozone depletion
concerns, to cause plenty of premature skin aging at best, and malignant skin
cancer at worst. Pretty nasty for a benign source of power, but another of those
things we just don't think of as a potential risk, just like the cumulative
effect of all the radioactive isotopes within the Earth, still decaying,and
keeping vulcanism going..... (I guess that makes geothermal power indirectly
nuclear, too.)

   Frank


--- QuickBBS 2.81 GoldBase (Zeta-2.0)
 * Origin: The Matrix Data Bank BBS, Rochester, Ny (1:2613/477)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 191 of 469
 From : Patrick Duda                        1:218/801       .åò 25 .þë 96 02:21
 To   : Frank Swarbrick
 Subj : Warped In Space
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12  91-0018
 On 07-22-96 FRANK SWARBRICK wrote to ALL...

 FS> Did anyone watch the show Warped In Space on the Sci-Fi Channel last
 FS> week?  Definately warped!  Only problem is, it was neither very funny
 FS> nor very interesting.
 FS>

     Yeah. It was funny in a lot ofparts, but the idea for the show, the
     timing, the cast, and generally everyhting was a big turn off for me.


   I wish they'd put on more anime and less Bionic Woman. :-p

---
 * OFFLINE 1.58

--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12
 * Origin: Star Tech Diamond Bar, CA 909-396-4227 714-257-1175  (1:218/801.0)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 192 of 469
 From : Patrick Duda                        1:218/801       .åò 25 .þë 96 02:21
 To   : Leman Russ
 Subj : Re: Japanese SF
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12  91-0018
 On 07-23-96 LEMAN RUSS wrote to JEFF HANCOCK...

 LR>  Well, I still liked the TBS version of VHD, even tho I agree about
 LR> the
 LR> blatant violence cutting and the flaws in the version I saw. Still, it
 LR> was
 LR> Ok, except for the scene where the castle imploded. That animation was
 LR> awful.

    I'll take a cut/dubbed version over no verion anyday.

    Hey! Anyone know the name (and availablity) of an anime shown on Sci-Fi's
    Anti-Gravity Room: it was something about a computer person called a
    puppetmaster and it got out and went on a rampage (looking for someone to
    join with)?

---
 * OFFLINE 1.58

--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12
 * Origin: Star Tech Diamond Bar, CA 909-396-4227 714-257-1175  (1:218/801.0)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 193 of 469
 From : Frank Swarbrick                     1:104/825       .òp 23 .þë 96 21:03
 To   : All
 Subj : Alien Nation
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12  92-0022
Does anyone know if any more Alien Nation movies are going to be made?
I've been watching the series on the Sci-Fi Channel recently, and I
just finished watching the repeat of "Body And Soul" a few minutes
ago.  It is a *really* good show!  I didn't watch it when it was
originally on, mostly because I didn't watch *any* FOX shows at the
time, and figured it'd be as bad as I thought all FOX shows were.
(Not that I was right--just what I thought from what I read about the
network.)  Anyhow, I hope they plan on making more movies.  I'm really
becoming a big fan of this show!

Trivia time:  In my opinion, the AN series far surpassed the original
theatrical movie.  Are there any others that anyone can think of there
the series was better than the movie?  MASH, probably, though I've
never seen the original movie.  Any others?  Just wondering...

        Frank

... Someone's at the door...
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12
 * Origin: The Bailey Information Exchange BBS, 28.8k v.fc  (1:104/825.0)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 194 of 469
 From : Ken Mayes                           1:393/7         .åò 25 .þë 96 07:40
 To   : Michael Harper
 Subj : Re: CGI vs Models
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On Thu 25-Jul-1996  3:02a, Michael Harper wrote:

MH>  A solid block of wood?!? Damn. I knew Matt was good, but this is
MH>  unreal.


        Maybe, but that is what I read. There was no mention of what kind of
wood...it could have been Balsa for all I know. Backpeddle...backpeddle...:)



--- CNet/3
 * Origin: The Bard's Tavern Denton, TX (817)243-5110 USR 28.8   (1:393/7)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 195 of 469
 From : Bob Klahn                           1:234/2         .åò 25 .þë 96 21:05
 To   : David Johnston
 Subj : CANCELLED
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
->> TS> Never mind the fusion reactor sitting 93 million miles away...
->> But it is a *fusion* reactor. All it produces is helium, and, of
->> course, lots and lots of heat. Well, maybe a few trace elements.

 DJ> Actually fusion reactions do produce radiation.

 But they don't produce all the nasty byproducts we get from fission
 reactors, only helium.

 Actually I know that's not correct, esp since *ALL* of our elements came
 from the fusion reactors called stars. I just had to say it.

BOB KLAHN   bob.klahn@toltbbs.com

... Remember, going with the flow, usually takes you down the drain!   OJW
 * Silver Xpress V4.3P RB10275

--- FLAME v1.1
 * Origin: Telnet toltbbs.com or call 313-854-6001, Boardwatch #55 (1:234/2)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 196 of 469
 From : Bob Klahn                           1:234/2         .åò 25 .þë 96 21:05
 To   : Don Bach
 Subj : BY FORCE OF ARMS
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 DB> I believe most wars are just simply an entity trying to gain neighbor's
 DB> territory - nothing more - nothing less.  Revolutions are the exception,
 DB> whereby a large segment of citizens want a new government.

 One of the major reasons for war, perhaps the major reason, is that a
 dictatorship must have an enemy to survive. Since a dictatorship must have
 an enemy, then sometimes the enemies must go to war. That is also why
 democracies sometimes have a hard time getting the citizenry to agree to
 war, the people really do have better sense to go off and get their heads
 blown off if nobody forces them to.

 I don't know of any examples of two democracies going to war against each
 other.

 DB> The territorial disputes in recent U.S. history:  The War of 1812, many
 DB> wars with American Indian Nations, the War of Northern Aggression, the

 Is that last anything like the 'War to Preserve Slavery'?

BOB KLAHN   bob.klahn@toltbbs.com

... Race is an idea whose time has passed. <New People Magazine>
 * Silver Xpress V4.3P RB10275

--- FLAME v1.1
 * Origin: Telnet toltbbs.com or call 313-854-6001, Boardwatch #55 (1:234/2)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 197 of 469
 From : Nicolai Shapero                     1:102/524       .åò 25 .þë 96 05:47
 To   : David Johnston
 Subj : By Force Of Arms
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Jul 24 00:49>, David Johnston (1:342/14) wrote to Kay Shapero:

 DJ><sigh>  And WHY did the southern states want to leave?

Just economics, really.

-- Nicolai Shapero, the Mad Russian Sysop of StormGate Aerie


--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 198 of 469
 From : Nicolai Shapero                     1:102/524       .åò 25 .þë 96 05:49
 To   : Don Bach
 Subj : By Force OF Arms
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Jul 22 19:59>, Don Bach (1:3632/65) wrote to Kay Shapero:

 DB>The territorial disputes in recent U.S. history:  The War of
 DB>1812, many wars with American Indian Nations, the War of Northern
 DB>Aggression, the Spanish-American War, the Great War, World War
 DB>II, The Korean Police Action, the Vietnam Police Action, the War
 DB>in Angola, the Persian Gulf War.

Dare I say it, that I see a certain bias just in the names that are attached to
the conflicts in question here?

-- Nicolai Shapero, the Mad Russian Sysop of StormGate Aerie

--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 199 of 469
 From : Nicolai Shapero                     1:102/524       .åò 25 .þë 96 05:50
 To   : Leman Russ
 Subj : The sci-fi channel?
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Jul 22 23:26>, Leman Russ (1:2250/7) wrote to All:

 LR> Secondly, the damn channel is hogging just about every single
 LR>bit of decent SF and fantasy in syndication. I haven't seen a TOS
 LR>ep in years, and the twilight zone and outer limits, which used
 LR>to live in syndication along with trek? They're now for SF
 LR>channel viewers only.

In Los Angeles, one broadcast channel has been rerunning ST:TOS for years (it's
how they managed to get ST:TNG, then become the local UPN affiliate, I do
believe).  The old Twilight Zone episodes have been regularly rerun on holidays
locally (one channel tends to do a "TZ Marathon" at the drop of a hat).  In your
area, you just may not have such nice stations...

-- Nicolai Shapero, the Mad Russian Sysop of StormGate Aerie

--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 200 of 469
 From : Kay Shapero                         1:102/524       .åò 25 .þë 96 10:34
 To   : David Johnston
 Subj : Cancelled
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Jul 24 00:51>, David Johnston (1:342/14) wrote to Bob Klahn:

-> TS> Never mind the fusion reactor sitting 93 million miles away...
-> But it is a *fusion* reactor. All it produces is helium, and, of
-> course, lots and lots of heat. Well, maybe a few trace elements.

 DJ>Actually fusion reactions do produce radiation.

As witness the fact that I can see across the street at the moment.  (And of
course that if I was dumb enough to go outside right now without a hat and stand
in the yard for an hour my skin would turn red...)

--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 201 of 469
 From : Gary Warren                         1:382/92.7      .åò 25 .þë 96 17:28
 To   : Leman Russ
 Subj : The sci-fi channel?
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On (22 Jul 96) Leman Russ wrote to All...

 LR>  I saw some ofthe SF channel on Intro, and I have some problems with
 LR> it.

 LR>  First, I watched some reruns of BSG and was dismayed to see how badly
 LR> they'd cut it up to make room for commercials. In fact they cut out a
 LR> scene I was wanting to see, so I noticed it was missing. It's terrible
 LR> to cut whole scenes out of classic s shows justto make room for
 LR> ----ing commericals, and I;d hoped that the SF channel, being cable,
 LR> wouldn't do this, but they seem to, unless it happens only onthe intro
 LR> version.

First of all, what's BSG?  Secondly, yep, Sci-Fi Channel makes some
horrible cuts.



 LR>  Secondly, the damn channel is hogging just about every single bit of
 LR> decent SF and fantasy in syndication. I haven't seen a TOS ep in
 LR> years, and the twilight zone and outer limits, which used to live in
 LR> syndication along with trek? They're now for SF channel viewers only.

Not quite right.  I believe Ted Turner's companies own some rights
to OUTER LIMITS, since TNT has an OL marathon every few months, as in
this weekend, especially!



glw


--- PPoint 1.90
 * Origin: Gary's Bar and Grill (1:382/92.7)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 202 of 469
 From : Frank Swarbrick                     1:104/825       .pä 24 .þë 96 22:03
 To   : All
 Subj : Brisco theme
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12  92-0022
The NBC Olympics broadcast is using the same music as the theme for
The Adventures of Brisco County, Jr.  Does anyone know what the piece
is?  I'd never heard it before Brisco.  I just figured it was written
for the show until tonight!

        Frank

... No one can hear when you're Screaming in Digital!
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12
 * Origin: The Bailey Information Exchange BBS, 28.8k v.fc  (1:104/825.0)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 203 of 469
 From : Frank Glover                        1:2613/477      .åò 25 .þë 96 22:29
 To   : David Johnston
 Subj : Re: By Force Of Arms
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

DJ>  -> without needing to modify history too.).  Mostly it was fought
DJ>  -> because the southern states wanted to leave the union and the
DJ>  -> northern states didn't want them to leave.  Not sure who
DJ>
DJ>  <sigh>  And WHY did the southern states want to leave?

   Primairily a matter of the rights and authority of the individual states vs.
the authority of a central government. (But I'm personally quite grateful that
slavery was abolished in the process...)

   Frank


--- QuickBBS 2.81 GoldBase (Zeta-2.0)
 * Origin: The Matrix Data Bank BBS, Rochester, Ny (1:2613/477)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 204 of 469
 From : Kevin Ahearn                        1:109/104       .ÿò 26 .þë 96 18:54
 To   : Frank Swarbrick
 Subj : Alien Nation
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 FS> Does anyone know if any more Alien Nation movies are going to be made?

Yep.  There will be two more coming out next season.

--Kevin


--- Maximus/2 3.01
 * Origin: ShanErin (1:109/104)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 205 of 469
 From : Scott Royall                        1:106/357       .ÿò 26 .þë 96 18:43
 To   : Gary Warren
 Subj : The sci-fi channel?
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 -=> Quoting Gary Warren to Leman Russ <=-

 LR> syndication along with trek? They're now for SF channel viewers only.

 GW> Not quite right.  I believe Ted Turner's companies own some rights
 GW> to OUTER LIMITS, since TNT has an OL marathon every few months, as in
 GW> this weekend, especially!

Not to mention the fact that TNT bought the strip rights to B5.  :)
--- Blue Wave/Max v2.12
 * Origin: Conch (1:106/357)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 206 of 469
 From : Bill Hedrick                        1:282/26        .ÿò 26 .þë 96 11:10
 To   : Kay Shapero
 Subj : Re: Cgi Vs Models
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
In a message dated 07-24-96 KAY SHAPERO wrote to BILL HEDRICK:

 KS> Actually that's what the argument is about - whether or not CGI looks
 KS> good. I'm with you - if it works, I don't really care how it got on
 KS> the screen. What annoys me about effects is when they're used to
 KS> carry the movie, and everything else is subordinated to them, witness
 KS> Jurassic Park, where the script was written, re-written,
 KS> re-re-written and generally mangled during most of the filming
 KS> process, until it existed only as an excuse to get from one setpiece
 KS> to the next.  The dinosaurs were great but effects alone simply
 KS> aren't enough.


Well,  I see your point, and I thought much of the book (which I read first)
was lost; but  dern! them dinos was kewl! :-P


Ciao,
  BILL

 -> Alice4Mac 2.4 E QWK Eval:22Mar96

--- RA 1.11+/GEcho 1.02+
 * Origin: Science Fiction BBS * Rosemount, MN * (612)423-7358 (1:282/26)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 207 of 469
 From : Steven Ross                         1:243/45        .pä 24 .þë 96 10:26
 To   : Bob Klahn
 Subj : By Force Of Arms
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 On 07-22-96 Bob Klahn wrote to Steven Ross...

SR>         Ah, but in a perfect world there wouldn't be wars.
BK>   As long as we live in a world where there are wars, we should try to
BK> do it right.

        Thats hard to do when modern conflicts are governed but
political/econamic expedency.

BK>  Not a change in human nature, but a change in human organization. The
BK>  existance of democracy as a major force in the world.

        Ah but, the cornerstone of democracy is the right of everyone to
their own opinion. Therefore, isn't it anti-democratic to kill someone just
because his or her political opinions differ from your own?

SR>         Define, good guys, without using western morality, philosphy or
SR> politics.

BK>  Why? Since western morality, philosophy and politics are the ones I
BK> live in, why shouldn't I use them? Can you think of a philosophy that exists
BK> without any ethnic or national link?

        But, your also assumming everyone else is using the same set of
 values that you do. The camal herder thats just had his livelyhood destroyed
 by a US minefield, likely doesn't share your veiws on the benifits of
 western society.

BK>  But, since western morality, philosophy and politics are so superior
BK> they now dominate the world stage...

        I wouldn't say that around the French, if I were you...

BK>  Correction, some Croats worked for the SS death squads over 50 years
BK> ago. Most Croats alive today hadn't even been born then.

        True, but many of the crimes prepatrated today are being justifed by
bringing up the crimes of the past. It's not right but then neither is
judging a group by the actions of some of it's members. If America had such
a moral high ground ask yourself why it so much time and so many deaths for
them to act? Ask also why Sadam is still in power in Irac?

BK>  Today democracy is the driving force in the world.

        Most would say greed is the driving force.

BK>  Not possible, if *YOU* listen when they speak.

        Some people *DO* listen, but not nearly enougth and we never see
everything. Nor-do we see it from an imparcial point of veiw. Take any
historical battle and look at it as if you we're a reporter or historian
from the other-side. You'll note how easy it is to turn a hero into a
monster and vice-versa.

BK>  Nothing a dictatorship does is legitimate, because a
BK> dictatorship is not legitimate.

SR>         That depends who you ask.

BK>  Ask me, I'll tell you.

        Yes, but you don't decide which government is legitimate. That is
done by Presidents, state departments and their equivilents. Castro's
predeser was a military dictator but the governments of the world including
your own considered him to be the ligitimate ruler of his country.

BK>>  If two democracies go to war with each other then you may well have a
BK>> case of two morally equal opponents, but I can't think of an example.

        What about a democracy vs a tribal counsel?

SR>         But, there are no TRUE democracies anymore. The closest thing
SR> to a true democracy in modern politics are the works of Karl Marx.

BK>  When were there ever a TRUE democracy? I don't ask for perfection.
BK> The US is a democracy, as are the nations of Western Europe. Japan also,
BK> and some others.

        To a degree, the US is sort of a democracy, a representitive
democracy as opposed to an Athenian one. However, Canada, Britan, and the
rest of the UK are constitional monarchies. France has a socialist
government. The others veri between these two. As for me, I demand at least
direct accountablilty from those who would rule me...

"It is rating our conjectures too highly to roast people alive for them." -
Montaigne

... OFFLINE 1.41

--- Maximus 2.01wb
 * Origin: Pandora's Box, Ottawa, Ont. 613-829-1209 (1:243/45)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 208 of 469
 From : Steven Ross                         1:243/45        .åò 25 .þë 96 22:39
 To   : David Johnston
 Subj : By Force Of Arms
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 On 07-24-96 David Johnston wrote to Kay Shapero...

DJ> <sigh>  And WHY did the southern states want to leave?

        They felt state's rights should take presidence over federal law.

... OFFLINE 1.41

--- Maximus 2.01wb
 * Origin: Pandora's Box, Ottawa, Ont. 613-829-1209 (1:243/45)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 209 of 469
 From : Todd Sullivan                       1:202/720.3     .åò 25 .þë 96 18:55
 To   : David Johnston
 Subj : Cancelled
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Reports from the Interior indicate that David Johnston leaked the following to
Bob Klahn, re: Cancelled

 ->> TS> Never mind the fusion reactor sitting 93 million miles away...
 ->> But it is a *fusion* reactor. All it produces is helium, and, of
 ->> course, lots and lots of heat. Well, maybe a few trace elements.

 DJ> Actually fusion reactions do produce radiation.

90% of which is in the form of neutrinos and fusion products, which give it up
as heat.

Todd Sullivan

... "I wanted to be all I can be, 'cause what I am don't pay too good."
     --In Living Color

-*- ASTG 1.9

--- Spot 1.3a Unregistered
 * Origin: Todd's Spot in the Continuum (1:202/720.3)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 210 of 469
 From : Glenn Shaheen                       1:3600/7        .òp 23 .þë 96 18:46
 To   : Patrick Duda
 Subj : Realistic space scenes
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

PD>-> Point 3. The most realistic, IMNSHO, space special effects was
PD>-> Space:1999. The eagles looked realistic and were filmed in a
PD>-> belieavble manner, looking

PD>  Not familiar with that. What's the story on it?

There was an explosion on the moon that blew it out of the Earth's orbit
and it flew through space continuosly.
-=-
 * OLX 2.2 * No, stupid, infertility is NOT hereditary.

--- SLMAIL v3.5C  (#1540)
 * Origin: Robotech  -=-Fansubbed anime available upon request-=- (1:3600/7)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 211 of 469
 From : Cheryl Simonye                      1:114/506       .óá 27 .þë 96 00:22
 To   : Frank Swarbrick
 Subj : Alien Nation
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE 1.11+

FS>Does anyone know if any more Alien Nation movies are going to be made?
FS>I've been watching the series on the Sci-Fi Channel recently, and I

    I've been wondering that myself.  I watched the entire series
    when it first came out, and recently watched the repeats.. but
    I haven't heard anything about any new episodes.  I thought it
    was an excellent show, and was disappointed when they stopped
    airing it altogether for a couple of years!
---
 À OLX 2.1 TD À Greetings Earthling.  Take me to your SysOp!
--- Renegade v5-11 Exp
 * Origin: The Mad Hatter's Tea Party * (602)220-9045 (1:114/506)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 212 of 469
 From : Patrick Duda                        1:218/801       .óá 27 .þë 96 00:23
 To   : Nicolai Shapero
 Subj : The sci-fi channel?
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12  91-0018

>In Los Angeles, one broadcast channel has been rerunning ST:TOS for years
>(it's how they managed to get ST:TNG, then become the local UPN affiliate,

   They're an exception. They also are the only station listed by TV
   guide's online site as showing the remarkable anime Sailor Moon.
   They've been playing the ST:x for over a decade.
---
 * MikeMayl v1.0 * (D)inner not ready:  (A)bort (R)etry (P)izza

--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12
 * Origin: Star Tech Diamond Bar, CA 909-396-4227 714-257-1175  (1:218/801.0)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 213 of 469
 From : Bob Klahn                           1:234/2         .ÿò 26 .þë 96 22:39
 To   : Frank Glover
 Subj : CANCELLED
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
BK>>   FG>    prefers to warp a piece of space from here to there, rather
BK>>
BK>>   I believe that's the basic principle Heinlein used in a novel I

 FG>    Sounds like `Tunnel in the Sky.'

 That does sound right. I'm lousy on names and titles, but pretty good on
 plots.

BOB KLAHN   bob.klahn@toltbbs.com

... Babies are such a nice way to start people.
 * Silver Xpress V4.3P RB10275

--- FLAME v1.1
 * Origin: Telnet toltbbs.com or call 313-854-6001, Boardwatch #55 (1:234/2)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 214 of 469
 From : Kay Shapero                         1:102/524       .ÿò 26 .þë 96 10:04
 To   : David Johnston
 Subj : By Force Of Arms
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Jul 24 00:49>, David Johnston (1:342/14) wrote to Kay Shapero:

-> They've gotten bigger and more people notice them because
-> communications have improved.  But, for example, the US Civil War was
-> not fought over slavery (that particular interpretation is a more
-> modern one.  Personally, I'll settle for being glad it's *gone*
-> without needing to modify history too.).  Mostly it was fought
-> because the southern states wanted to leave the union and the
-> northern states didn't want them to leave.  Not sure who

 DJ><sigh>  And WHY did the southern states want to leave?

<Sigh, yourself>, economics mostly.  Damn straight slavery was involved; the
South had based a hefty part of its economy on it, remaining mostly rural and
agrarian in nature.  The North otoh had gone heavily industrial, and had thus no
use for slaves (economics again; it was cheaper to hire the desperate at low
wages, and just replace them when they wore out or left; slaves were
EXPENSIVE!).  Making it a heck of a lot easier to be anti-slavery up there of
course.  Point is, regardless of why the south left, the vision of the Good,
Pure and Heroic North gone to war to Emancipate the Slaves is wrong - the North
didn't want to lose its breadbasket.  (Understandable - the two areas were so
thoroughly entertwined that surrpetitious trade continued between them right on
through the war.)

On the whole, I think we're better off that the North won both because it DID
make slavery illegal, and put an end to that period of national shame, and
because it established that bits of the country can't break off and leave at a
moment's notice, thus increasing stability.  (Though when I think of it, a union
which could be left and rejoined as easily as by sending representatives to
Washington or removing them would certainly be entertaining.  This has
ficitional possibilities.)  But it wasn't a case of The Good Guys vs The Bad
Guys.  Wars generally aren't.

--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 215 of 469
 From : Todd Sullivan                       1:202/720.3     .pä 24 .þë 96 18:56
 To   : Bob Klahn
 Subj : CANCELLED
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Reports from the Interior indicate that Bob Klahn leaked the following to me,
re: CANCELLED

 BK>>>  Somebody, I forget who, pointed out that people who fear nuclear
 BK>>> power
 BK>>>  should consider the fact that a nuclear reactor of unimaginable size
 BK>>> and power is operating just a few miles under our feet.

 TS>> Never mind the fusion reactor sitting 93 million miles away...

 BK>  But it is a *fusion* reactor. All it produces is helium, and, of
 BK> course,
 BK>  lots and lots of heat. Well, maybe a few trace elements.

Last I knew, people were scared of those trace elements "putting out the sun" a
few years ago.  I always played with their minds that only a few gigatons of it
would do the trick, never bothering to mention that the sun wouldn't notice...

<evil grin and chuckling>

Todd Sullivan

... "Once swords are crossed the gun becomes useless." --Musashi

-*- ASTG 1.9

--- Spot 1.3a Unregistered
 * Origin: Todd's Spot in the Continuum (1:202/720.3)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 216 of 469
 From : Todd Sullivan                       1:202/720.3     .pä 24 .þë 96 18:58
 To   : Bob Klahn
 Subj : CANCELLED
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Reports from the Interior indicate that Bob Klahn leaked the following to Frank
Glover, re: CANCELLED

 FG>>    The classic of course is Niven's `The Theory and Practice of
 FG>>    Teleportation" in the `All the Myriad Ways' anthology. Hemuch
 FG>>    prefers to warp a piece of space from here to there, rather than
 FG>>    take people apart, and beam their mass-energy (or just the
 FG>>    information) around.

 BK>  I believe that's the basic principle Heinlein used in a novel I forget
 BK> the name of. I much prefer that method.

You might be thinking of "Tunnel in the Sky", where they actually created a
"dimensional gate" to open a portal on another planet.

Of course, I haven't read all of Heinlein's books, as they're not always easy to
find.

Todd Sullivan

... "Hi!"  "No, we're not!" --Terok Nor Greeting

-*- ASTG 1.9

--- Spot 1.3a Unregistered
 * Origin: Todd's Spot in the Continuum (1:202/720.3)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 217 of 469
 From : David Johnston                      1:342/14        .óá 27 .þë 96 00:42
 To   : Frank Glover
 Subj : Re: By Force Of Arms
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
-> DJ>  -> without needing to modify history too.).  Mostly it was
-> fought DJ>  -> because the southern states wanted to leave the union
-> and the DJ>  -> northern states didn't want them to leave.  Not sure
-> who DJ>
-> DJ>  <sigh>  And WHY did the southern states want to leave?
->
-> Primairily a matter of the rights and authority of the individual
-> states vs. the authority of a central government. (But I'm personally

Enough already.  In what way was the central government attempting to
assert it's authority over the southern states?  What were the issues?
What was the biggest grievance?

--- PCBoard (R) v15.21/100
 * Origin: Freddy's Place - Edm. AB - 33.6K (403) 413-3460 (1:342/14)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 218 of 469
 From : David Johnston                      1:342/14        .óá 27 .þë 96 01:24
 To   : Kay Shapero
 Subj : Re: Cgi Vs Models
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
-> movie, and everything else is subordinated to them, witness Jurassic
-> Park, where the script was written, re-written, re-re-written and
-> generally mangled during most of the filming process, until it
-> existed only as an excuse to get from one setpiece to the next.  The
-> dinosaurs were great but effects alone simply aren't enough.

The movie only existed so that people could encounter dinosaurs.  The
book wasn't plot or character heavy either.

I'm still irritated about the flagrant abuse of chaos theory.

--- PCBoard (R) v15.21/100
 * Origin: Freddy's Place - Edm. AB - 33.6K (403) 413-3460 (1:342/14)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 219 of 469
 From : David Johnston                      1:342/14        .óá 27 .þë 96 01:28
 To   : Bob Klahn
 Subj : By Force Of Arms
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
-> One of the major reasons for war, perhaps the major reason, is that a
-> dictatorship must have an enemy to survive. Since a dictatorship must
-> have

Who says?  Egypt operated for extended periods of time without an
external enemy.  Of course at that time, nobody had thought of any
alternatives to dictatorship in the area...

--- PCBoard (R) v15.21/100
 * Origin: Freddy's Place - Edm. AB - 33.6K (403) 413-3460 (1:342/14)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 220 of 469
 From : David Johnston                      1:342/14        .óá 27 .þë 96 01:28
 To   : Nicolai Shapero
 Subj : By Force Of Arms
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
-> DJ><sigh>  And WHY did the southern states want to leave?
-> Just economics, really.

And was slavery a major economic factor in the region at the time?

--- PCBoard (R) v15.21/100
 * Origin: Freddy's Place - Edm. AB - 33.6K (403) 413-3460 (1:342/14)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 221 of 469
 From : David Johnston                      1:342/14        .óá 27 .þë 96 14:41
 To   : Steven Ross
 Subj : By Force Of Arms
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
-> DJ> <sigh>  And WHY did the southern states want to leave?
->
->       They felt state's rights should take presidence over federal
-> law.

And which federal laws were in dispute?

--- PCBoard (R) v15.21/100
 * Origin: Freddy's Place - Edm. AB - 33.6K (403) 413-3460 (1:342/14)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 222 of 469
 From : Jeff Hancock                        1:3600/7        .ÿò 26 .þë 96 18:26
 To   : Mark Jones
 Subj : but about models...
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

MJ>   Not really.  By the time practical (and visually acceptable) 3D
MJ>televisions come into existence, they'll be able to use CGI to
MJ>generate the entire image.  A CGI image exists only as data on a

Well, it remains to be seen how much humanity can be put into a CGI
actor, not for lack of trying, of course.  There's a difference between
someone playing their role and doing it "naturally" and someone saying
"Okay, he should shift his body posture like *so*, slight tightening of
the jaw *there*, okay, now have him turn his head just slightly to one
side..." ...

Maybe they'll have fuzzy logic advanced enough by then to make them as
erratic and natural as real humans. ;)  At which point they will of
course demand pay and benefits.

MJ>computer, which is then displayed on a monitor (or on film); why not
MJ>do the same with 3D imaging systems?

It may be more likely that we'll see an advanced form of bluescreening
and virtual sets.  Or, they simply may not bother with filming the
"back" of the image, limiting it to around 120 degrees of viewing angle.
-=-
 * Crazy-J * Jesus Christ, close the door! Were you born in a barn!?!?

--- SLMAIL v3.5C  (#1540)
 * Origin: Robotech  -=-Fansubbed anime available upon request-=- (1:3600/7)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 223 of 469
 From : Jeff Hancock                        1:3600/7        .ÿò 26 .þë 96 18:38
 To   : Leman Russ
 Subj : Japanese SF
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

LR> Beisdes GitS I could recomend Gall Force ifthe dubbed version is as
LR>good an the subbed. >;[

That one seems to be popular.  Must be the babes. ;)

Why would you assume I would get the dub?  Unless that's the only
version available now...

I was poking through a few other web sites and noticed some traders had
fan parodies and music videos available.  I guess either they're risking
a lawsuit over copyright violation or the parody/"fair use" clause can
apply, because there was a Ranma 1/2 parody, and the series rights to
that belong to Viz in the U.S.  What I'm curious about though, is has
anyone ever produced any music videos or parodies of other SF series
like Trek or Star Wars or whatever?  (and I don't mean like "Hardware
Wars", but reusing existing footage spliced into a new story with
altered dialogue).  It'd be tricky, but it could technically be done...
dunno how open to a lawsuit one would be, though.

The one I want to see is the fan parody "Dirty Pair Does Dishes"... <g>

-=-
 * Crazy-J * I stress quality, but will settle for quality stress.

--- SLMAIL v3.5C  (#1540)
 * Origin: Robotech  -=-Fansubbed anime available upon request-=- (1:3600/7)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 224 of 469
 From : Jeff Hancock                        1:3600/7        .ÿò 26 .þë 96 18:44
 To   : Leman Russ
 Subj : Japanese SF
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

LR> Project A-ko is one long in joke for anime fhans. Among the ones I

So I hear.

LR> -The title is a take off of a japanese video called "project a"

From what I understand, Jackie Chan and whomever else was involved in
directing/writing acknowledged that joke in their sequel, where they had
four villians named "A", "B", "C", and "D".

LR>-The explosion scene at the beginning is a takeoff od the one in "Akira"

Oh?  I really must see that someday.  Do you mean in that it happened,
or in the particular way it looked?  Seems to me that's what you'd get
with a meteorite impact like that.

LR> - mary was a takeoff of "Kenshiro, fist ofthe north star".

Forgot who Mary was, but I guess you must mean the bulked-up babe who
looked like a Mack truck.  On steroids.

LR>_ The teacher appeared in some x-rated animes.

No kiddin'?  Huh.

LR>-One of the fighters seen was an interceptor from "UFO".

You mean that British show?  Never seen it.

LR>-Some of the missiles were pepsi cans.

I think that was a joke based on the original Macross, where some of the
missiles were beer cans.  Or so I've heard.

LR> So on and so on....

And on anon, eh? ;)

Someone had a list but I can't remember hardly any of it.  I think "Ten"
from Urusei Yatsura was supposed to be in the audience at the theater,
but I missed him.  I remember that the movie was a parody of another
movie I can't remember, in this case with Colonel Sanders as the
villian.  And there's some relevance to the scene where C-ko stops to
look at a doll in a store window but I'll be damned if I know what.
-=-
 * Crazy-J * "The offog? It... came apart under gravitational stress."

--- SLMAIL v3.5C  (#1540)
 * Origin: Robotech  -=-Fansubbed anime available upon request-=- (1:3600/7)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 225 of 469
 From : Frank Swarbrick                     1:104/825       .ÿò 26 .þë 96 21:41
 To   : All
 Subj : The New Dark Shadows
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12  92-0022
I've been watching the new Dark Shadows (from 1991, I think) on the
Sci-Fi Channel recently.  I must say, I'm *very* presently surprised.
I've never seen the original daytime version from the 60's, but I'm am
really enjoying the "new" version.  Too bad it only lasted three
months.  The cast is, in my opinion, quite good.  They make what could
be a very hokey idea really fun to watch.

I just saw episode 7 tonight, and I doubt there are many more than
twelve episodes, so I'm going to be rather upset to see it end.  It
actually seems to be *going* somewhere.

Anyhow, anyone else watching it?

        Frank

p.s.  For any Highlander fans, Adrian Paul was in tonight's episode,
and will probably be in the next few at least.  I don't watch
Highlander, but I recognised him.  Roy(?) Thienes(sp?) from the old
"Invaders" series (as well as this past year's X-Files season finale)
is also in it.  And Ben Cross (Chariots of Fire) plays the vampire,
Barnabas Collins.  Oh, and can't forget Jean Simmons...

... How much does it cost to get your soul dry cleaned these days?
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12
 * Origin: The Bailey Information Exchange BBS, 28.8k v.fc  (1:104/825.0)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 226 of 469
 From : Frank Swarbrick                     1:104/825       .ÿò 26 .þë 96 21:57
 To   : Gary Warren
 Subj : The sci-fi channel?
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12  92-0022
On 07-25-96  17:28, shipwrecked and comatose, Gary Warren said:

 GW> On (22 Jul 96) Leman Russ wrote to All...

 LR>  I saw some ofthe SF channel on Intro, and I have some problems with
 LR> it.

 LR>  First, I watched some reruns of BSG and was dismayed to see how badly
 LR> they'd cut it up to make room for commercials. In fact they cut out a
 LR> scene I was wanting to see, so I noticed it was missing. It's terrible
 LR> to cut whole scenes out of classic s shows justto make room for
 LR> ----ing commericals, and I;d hoped that the SF channel, being cable,
 LR> wouldn't do this, but they seem to, unless it happens only onthe intro
 LR> version.

 GW> First of all, what's BSG?  Secondly, yep, Sci-Fi Channel makes some
 GW> horrible cuts.

I believe BSG is Battlestar Galactica...

Personally, I haven't noticed the cuts (in other shows--I only watched
one BSG episode on the channel), but I guess that's only because I'm
watching shows I've never seen before.  I can't say that I've noticed
an inordinate amount of commercials.  I suppose I'd be mad if a scene
that I was expecting were cut out, but that hasn't happened to me...

 LR>  Secondly, the damn channel is hogging just about every single bit of
 LR> decent SF and fantasy in syndication. I haven't seen a TOS ep in
 LR> years, and the twilight zone and outer limits, which used to live in
 LR> syndication along with trek? They're now for SF channel viewers only.

 GW> Not quite right.  I believe Ted Turner's companies own some rights
 GW> to OUTER LIMITS, since TNT has an OL marathon every few months, as in
 GW> this weekend, especially!

You are correct that TOL is not airing on the Sci-Fi Channel.  But
lots of other stuff is!  A lot of it is rather corny, but I enjoy most
of the stuff I've seen.

As for TOS, one of my local stations still airs it one night a week
(or should I say morning) at 4:00am or so.  SFC doesn't get rights to
it until next year.

Welp, off to watch Kolchak: The Night Stalker!

        Frank

... Deny Everything -- The X-Files
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12
 * Origin: The Bailey Information Exchange BBS, 28.8k v.fc  (1:104/825.0)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 227 of 469
 From : Patrick Duda                        1:218/801       .óá 27 .þë 96 21:44
 To   : Glenn Shaheen
 Subj : Realistic space scenes
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12  91-0018

-> There was an explosion on the moon that blew it out of the Earth's
-> orbit and it flew through space continuosly.

  Is Space:1999 on tape?

--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12
 * Origin: Star Tech Diamond Bar, CA 909-396-4227 714-257-1175  (1:218/801.0)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 228 of 469
 From : Dave MacLean                        1:259/536       .pä 24 .þë 96 02:27
 To   : All
 Subj : fun & neat info
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
hi all here is some neat & fun infofor you.

== 1 - i am part of a club that meets monthly & we are always looking for new
members.

== 2 - i am writting a trivia book on st-tng & i need help.

== 3 - i am looking for message buddies that share some of my same interests so
that we can message back & forth to each other.

if u need more info or have questions on any of the above items feel free to
message me back.  i hope to hear from some of you.



--- Maximus 2.01wb
 * Origin: USS Proxima = Toronto, Canada (416)265-3867 (1:259/536)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 229 of 469
 From : Bob Klahn                           1:234/2         .óá 27 .þë 96 17:33
 To   : Frank Glover
 Subj : BY FORCE OF ARMS
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
DJ>>  -> because the southern states wanted to leave the union and the
DJ>>  -> northern states didn't want them to leave.  Not sure who
DJ>>
DJ>>  <sigh>  And WHY did the southern states want to leave?
 FG>
 FG>    Primairily a matter of the rights and authority of the individual
 FG>    states vs. the authority of a central government. (But I'm
 FG>    personally quite grateful that slavery was abolished in the
 FG>    process...)

 I'm still trying to figure out why the Constitution of the Confederacy has
 so much about slavery, and goes to such lengths to protect slavery, if that
 wasn't the main reason for the secession.

BOB KLAHN   bob.klahn@toltbbs.com

... Our mission - To boldly split infinitives no one has split before.
 * Silver Xpress V4.3P RB10275

--- FLAME v1.1
 * Origin: Telnet toltbbs.com or call 313-854-6001, Boardwatch #55 (1:234/2)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 230 of 469
 From : Bob Klahn                           1:234/2         .óá 27 .þë 96 17:33
 To   : Nicolai Shapero
 Subj : BY FORCE OF ARMS
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 NS> On <Jul 24 00:49>, David Johnston (1:342/14) wrote to Kay Shapero:

 DJ>><sigh>  And WHY did the southern states want to leave?

 NS> Just economics, really.

 Yeah, abolishing slavery would have been very expensive.

BOB KLAHN   bob.klahn@toltbbs.com

... "If we don't succeed, we run the risk of failure." -Dan Quayle
 * Silver Xpress V4.3P RB10275

--- FLAME v1.1
 * Origin: Telnet toltbbs.com or call 313-854-6001, Boardwatch #55 (1:234/2)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 231 of 469
 From : David Johnston                      1:342/14        .cê 28 .þë 96 00:42
 To   : Steven Ross
 Subj : By Force Of Arms
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
->       To a degree, the US is sort of a democracy, a representitive
-> democracy as opposed to an Athenian one. However, Canada, Britan, and
-> the rest of the UK are constitional monarchies. France has a
-> socialist government. The others veri between these two. As for me, I
-> demand at least

Canada is not part of the UK.  Canada is also a representative
democracy.  So is France.

--- PCBoard (R) v15.21/100
 * Origin: Freddy's Place - Edm. AB - 33.6K (403) 413-3460 (1:342/14)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 232 of 469
 From : Nicolai Shapero                     1:102/524       .óá 27 .þë 96 20:29
 To   : Bob Klahn
 Subj : BY FORCE OF ARMS
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Jul 25 21:05>, Bob Klahn (1:234/2) wrote to Don Bach:

 BK> I don't know of any examples of two democracies going to war
 BK>against each
 BK> other.

US and Great Britain.  The War of 1812.

-- Nicolai Shapero, the Mad Russian Sysop of StormGate Aerie

--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 233 of 469
 From : Don Bach                            1:3632/65       .óá 27 .þë 96 10:02
 To   : Bob Klahn
 Subj : BY FORCE OF ARMS
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 BK>  One of the major reasons for war, perhaps the major reason, is that a
 BK>  dictatorship must have an enemy to survive. Since a
 BK> dictatorship must have
 BK>  an enemy, then sometimes the enemies must go to war.

Hmmm.  I hadn't thought of that angle.  There are many dictatorships in the
world who are not at war.  About the only one I can think of which is stable is
Castro in Cuba and we are an enemy for him, possibly preventing the need for him
to wage war.

 BK>  I don't know of any examples of two democracies going to war against each
 BK>  other.

I can think of two:  The War of 1812 (England has been a democracy since the
Magna Carta) and the War of Northern Aggression.

 BK> Northern Aggression, the

 BK>  Is that last anything like the 'War to Preserve Slavery'?

It was much more, although the slavery issue was the "Straw that Broke the
Camel's Back".  Only a very small percentage of citizens of the Confederacy
owned slaves.  The southern states had formed their own democracy with an
elected government.

 BK> ... Race is an idea whose time has passed. <New People Magazine>

"We don't do race anymore" - Mississippi Governor Kirk Fordice

As we expand outward into the universe, I expect wars and racism to continually
be problems.  ST:TOS broke human racial barriers, but there were still wars
between humans and alien races (so much for utopia!).  Star Wars seems to break
all racial barriers, but shows a war between good and evil dictatorships (aren't
the rebel forces governed by a monarchy?).  B5 shows a lot of wars and conflicts
between alien races.

Don


--- Maximus 3.01
 * Origin: No Regrets, Clinton, MS (601)924-8247 9P-5A (1:3632/65)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 234 of 469
 From : Don Bach                            1:3632/65       .óá 27 .þë 96 10:20
 To   : Nicolai Shapero
 Subj : By Force OF Arms
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 NS> Dare I say it, that I see a certain bias just in the
 NS> names that are attached to the conflicts in question
 NS> here?

Sure you can say it, and I'll admit to it!  There was nothing civil about the
War of Northern Aggression.  It was a war between two countries.  Actually, the
last time I referred to it as the Civil War, I was chastised by my wife who's
ancestors were cousins to General Lee.  I have found a name of one of my
ancestors listed in the Ilinois Memorial in the Vicksburg Military Park, so we
had relatives on both sides of that conflict.

As far as the "Police Actions", we can't really call it a war unless Congress
declares war, can we?

Don


--- Maximus 3.01
 * Origin: No Regrets, Clinton, MS (601)924-8247 9P-5A (1:3632/65)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 235 of 469
 From : Don Bach                            1:3632/65       .óá 27 .þë 96 11:00
 To   : Darre LuAllen
 Subj : B5 Renewed
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 KS> What I find interesting is that a lot of us "Original
 KS> Trekkers"
 KS> are big B5 fans.  The ones who want to
 KS> fight about it appear to have come in later.
 DL>
 DL>  Born less than a month before the moon landing, I was too young to be
 DL>  in Bjo's campaign.  However, I grew up on Trek reruns and other SF.
 DL>  A strange bird, I consider myself an older fan and almost an Original
 DL>  Trekker (TM, Kay Shapiro).  In fact, I've been a SF
 DL> fan since I was three
 DL>  or four.  My father, God rest his soul, used to watch SF tv and movies
 DL>  with me.  I think it is because of him that I love the genre so much.
 DL>  [lump in throat... I'll be right back.]
 DL>

I am an "Original Treker" and also a B5 fan.  I just wish they would show it at
a reasonable hour here.

My dad let me stay up late to watch the original NBC airing of ST when they
moved it to 9PM Eastern.  I believe NBC killed this show when they moved it into
this late time slot.

My Dad is still here, but for just a few years - he has emphasema and is still
smoking......

 DL>  This week-end,
 DL>  I went to a very small con (400 or so people in attendance).  Most were
 DL>  older fans, since this con caters to such a crowd.

A few years ago we had a sucessfull small Star Trek con.  We don't have a high
population density, but we do have a lot of high-tech people, mainly in the
telecommunications industry (WorldCom LDDS/Skytel).  The next year, the con was
cancelled due to lack of advance ticket sales and it will probably be a long
time before we have one again.  Personally, I was waiting to buy tickets at the
door, as I expect most of the attendees were.

There were no arguments whatsoever at our con, although it was topic specific to
ST.  Possibly a complete con devoted to all SF topics would work.  We certainly
have the facilities to host a con of any size.

 DL>  Several week ends before, I was at
 DL>  Dragon*Con (the monster of the South).

Where is this held?

 DL>  Many of the discussions I
 DL>  overheard were very heated.  Wearing one of my many B5 shirts, it was
 DL>  the older fans who would stop me and talk about the show (the whole
 DL>  reason I wear such things).  The youngsters looked at me with some small
 DL>  degree of contempt.  Not all of them, mind you.

That is really a shame.  I hope I'm teaching my children tolerance of people and
ideas they don't agree with.  Contempt for the ideas of others is not a good
thing.

I'll have to figure out a way to stay up tonight and watch ST:V at 10:30
followed by B5 at 11:30 on our ABC affiliate.  Highlander: The Series follows at
12:35 on our CBS affiliate.  I sure wish the Sci-Fi Channel would pick up ST and
B5.

Don


--- Maximus 3.01
 * Origin: No Regrets, Clinton, MS (601)924-8247 9P-5A (1:3632/65)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 236 of 469
 From : Don Bach                            1:3632/65       .óá 27 .þë 96 11:43
 To   : Bob Klahn
 Subj : CANCELLED
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 BK>> I was just coming off third shift in the comm shop at Hickam
 BK>>AFB, Hawaii. Someone had a B&W portable set up in the shop, and we
 BK>>all sat there and watched that step.

 BK>> Ah yes, I remember it well.

 KS> I was in college, though home for the summer and watched it on the
 KS> small B&W that was the family TV at the time.  I
 KS> remember going outside
 KS> afterwards and looking up at the moon for awhile.

I wasn't out of Middle School then, and I'm not sure if this was the first lunar
landing, but I remember my science teacher at Dover Central Middle School
hooking up an antenna coat-hangar so we could receive the coverage before
Delaware ETV picked it up.  We were in a fringe area for *all* TV, so the
picture was really snowy.  It was great after ETV picked up the feed.

A few years later, Delaware ETV was shut down after a scandal which involved
ETV-purchased equipment found dumped in a pond.

Don


--- Maximus 3.01
 * Origin: No Regrets, Clinton, MS (601)924-8247 9P-5A (1:3632/65)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 237 of 469
 From : Steve James                         1:170/600.30    .îí 29 .þë 96 13:00
 To   : Frank Swarbrick
 Subj : The New Dark Shadows
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Just before he won the gold medal in pizza eating and beer drinking,
 Steve heard Frank Swarbrick say to All

 FS> I've been watching the new Dark Shadows (from 1991, I think) on the
 FS> Sci-Fi Channel recently.  I must say, I'm *very* presently surprised.
 FS> I've never seen the original daytime version from the 60's, but I'm am
 FS> really enjoying the "new" version.  Too bad it only lasted three
 FS> months.  The cast is, in my opinion, quite good.  They make what could
 FS> be a very hokey idea really fun to watch.

 FS> Anyhow, anyone else watching it?

        Yep, it was 1991 when it was on. If I remember right, everybody was
too busy watching the Persian Gulf War on TV to pay attention to it ...
        I didn't watch the original show much (I was only five or six years
old and could only watch it when my folks didn't know about it), but
thoroughly enjoyed the remake, as long as it lasted.
        I don't get the Sci-Fi Channel here (thanks to TCI Cablevision of
Tulsa), but am glad to hear others enjoy it. Ben Cross was a pretty good
Barnabas, and Lysette Anthony (Angelique) ... whattawoman!

        Steve :)


... "Oh joy! Rapture! I've got a brain!" -- Scarecrow, "The Wizard of Oz"

--- PPoint 2.00
 * Origin: Steve James: Global Village Idiot (1:170/600.30)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 238 of 469
 From : Gary Warren                         1:382/92.7      .cê 28 .þë 96 11:14
 To   : Frank Swarbrick
 Subj : The sci-fi channel?
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On (26 Jul 96) Frank Swarbrick wrote to Gary Warren...

 FS> Welp, off to watch Kolchak: The Night Stalker!


Good choice!  During a "Kolchak Marathon" on Sci-Fi Channel last fall,
I was able to record all the episodes.  Now if SFC would run the two
NIGHT STALKER movies from ABC (1971-3?) prior to the series itself,
my collection would be complete!  :D


glw


--- PPoint 1.90
 * Origin: Gary's Bar and Grill (1:382/92.7)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 239 of 469
 From : Gary Warren                         1:382/92.7      .cê 28 .þë 96 11:41
 To   : Frank Swarbrick
 Subj : The New Dark Shadows
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On (26 Jul 96) Frank Swarbrick wrote to All...

 FS> I've been watching the new Dark Shadows (from 1991, I think) on the
 FS> Sci-Fi Channel recently.  I must say, I'm *very* presently surprised.
 FS> I've never seen the original daytime version from the 60's, but I'm am
 FS> really enjoying the "new" version.  Too bad it only lasted three
 FS> months.  The cast is, in my opinion, quite good.  They make what could
 FS> be a very hokey idea really fun to watch.

 FS> I just saw episode 7 tonight, and I doubt there are many more than
 FS> twelve episodes, so I'm going to be rather upset to see it end.  It
 FS> actually seems to be *going* somewhere.

 FS> Anyhow, anyone else watching it?



Not currently, but I have the original eps on tape.  I was glad *at the
time* that NBC aired this remake of DS.  But that's all the miniseries was,
a splintered remake of the 1970 HOUSE OF DARK SHADOWS movie.  I liked Ben
Cross's take on Barnabas, and most of the remaining cast was ok.  As
a tried and true Angelique fan, I have to be blunt and say the woman
who played this second Angelique in the 1991 show sucked bigtime.  The
original actress, Lara Parker, runs rings around the 1991 airhead in the
1960's reruns!


glw
(not QUITE recovered from my childhood crush on Ms. Parker, even after
27 years!)
;D


--- PPoint 1.90
 * Origin: Gary's Bar and Grill (1:382/92.7)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 240 of 469
 From : Mark Jones                          1:105/302.47    .pä 24 .þë 96 18:42
 To   : Michael Harper
 Subj : B5 RENEWED
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On (20 Jul 96) Michael Harper wrote to Bob Klahn...

 MH>  Exactamundo. I'm only adopted Cheyenne, and know very little about my
 MH>  people, but I know H'wood. They figure that the mass audience doesn't
 MH>  know a damn thing about native culture, and they can cobble up some
 MH>  kinda bullshit substitute that the masses will accept. Problem is,
 MH>  there are a few of us who know the real thing from a cheap copy...

Before you go on the warpath (har har)...consider that the indians are
hardly alone in this regard.  If you watch television (or most films)
with someone knowledgeable about *any* subject, the utter lack of
reality in most television programs is appalling.

Cops don't act like real-world cops.  Automobiles fly through the air
like airplanes...and land, and keep going.  Handguns are treated like
magic wands.  Sound effects in space....

Some of it is intentional.  I don't think any moron in Hollywood
*really* believes that sound travels in a vacuum--but they insist on
sound effects because they believe the audience wants it (and they may
be right, in some cases).

A lot of occurs because they don't know the reality--or don't care.
And frankly, in many cases, they're right--the masses *don't* know the
difference and/or they don't care.  (I never thought much about how
accurate Chakotay's "indian" heritage was--I was foaming at the mouth
about far more blatant stupidities....)


--- PPoint 1.78
 * Origin: Folcroft Sanitarium (hsmith@cure.com) (1:105/302.47)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 241 of 469
 From : Mark Jones                          1:105/302.47    .pä 24 .þë 96 18:56
 To   : Frank Glover
 Subj : Scheduling SF shows
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On (21 Jul 96) Frank Glover wrote to Michael Harper...

 FG>    If (Gods forbid!) that should happen, one wonders if they'd have a
 FG> major series finale? Will the `Cancer Man' finally quit? Will
 FG> Scully quit the FBI in disgust, and get a job as a stripper? Will
 FG> Mulder break everything wide open by crash landing a UFO at the
 FG> Super Bowl?
 FG>
 FG>    And with respect to how Mulder finally dies...what did that guy say
 FG> about autoerotic asphyxiation....??

   I think he was talking about himself, actually.  That *is* how
Peter Boyle's character died at the end of the episode.
   I think Mulder will be taken up by the UFO's.
   Cancer Man will have a climactic battle with Scully, who will take
his head--and with it, his power.  (She's not going to die, according
to Peter Boyle; and Cancer Man is a Highlander-type immortal, at least
according to some fan fic I've read, so....)


--- PPoint 1.78
 * Origin: Folcroft Sanitarium (hsmith@cure.com) (1:105/302.47)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 242 of 469
 From : Mark Jones                          1:105/302.47    .ÿò 26 .þë 96 23:26
 To   : Frank Swarbrick
 Subj : Alien Nation
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On (23 Jul 96) Frank Swarbrick wrote to All...

 FS> Does anyone know if any more Alien Nation movies are going to be made?
 FS> I've been watching the series on the Sci-Fi Channel recently, and I
 FS> just finished watching the repeat of "Body And Soul" a few minutes
 FS> ago.  It is a *really* good show!

   It was pretty good, but I just kept laughing whenever the subplot
of Sikes and Cathy's getting together was mentioned.  See...here's the
problem.
   Newcomers react to salt water like it's battery acid.  Dunk a
newcomer in the ocean and he's a deader.  I find that incredibly silly
(given how similar they are to us, that they are so vulnerable to salt
water makes no sense), but that's "reality" in the Alien Nation
universe.  Okay.
   Unless Sikes and Cathy are going to "do it" in a meat locker, or
somebody wears a full-body condom, Cathy is going to suffer serious
skin irritation problems.  Hot, sweaty sex = sweat = salt water =
major league discomfort for Cathy.
   Not to mention sour-milk-breath on Cathy's part, if they've been
drinking.  (And she might find the smell of alcohol equally
repulsive.)
   Not surprising that there isn't more human/newcomer hanky-panky.


--- PPoint 1.78
 * Origin: Folcroft Sanitarium (hsmith@cure.com) (1:105/302.47)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 243 of 469
 From : Mark Jones                          1:105/302.47    .ÿò 26 .þë 96 23:38
 To   : Bob Klahn
 Subj : BY FORCE OF ARMS
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On (25 Jul 96) Bob Klahn wrote to Don Bach...

 DB> The territorial disputes in recent U.S. history: The War of 1812,
 DB> many wars with American Indian Nations, the War of Northern
 DB> Aggression, the
 BK>
 BK>  Is that last anything like the 'War to Preserve Slavery'?

   Not at all.  In fact, it is entirely *unlike* that.



--- PPoint 1.78
 * Origin: Folcroft Sanitarium (hsmith@cure.com) (1:105/302.47)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 244 of 469
 From : Kay Shapero                         1:102/524       .cê 28 .þë 96 14:45
 To   : Bill Hedrick
 Subj : Re: Cgi Vs Models
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Jul 26 11:10>, Bill Hedrick (1:282/26) wrote to Kay Shapero:

 BH>Well,  I see your point, and I thought much of the book (which I
 BH>read first) was lost; but  dern! them dinos was kewl! :-P

That they were.  I went to see it in the theater twice, again when they showed
it at Westercon a couple years back, and bought the movie when it came out on
tape, all because I liked those dinosaurs.  Mind you, it doesn't look as
imposing on TV as it does on the big screen, but being able to do things like
freeze frame on that longshot of parasarolopus, brachiosaurs and whatnot around
the lake well makes up for it.

If you can find it, take a look at The Making Of Jurassic Park trade pb.  Lots
of fascinating pictures, background information and so forth.  Also some things
that didn't get into the movie like what was wrong with the Triceratops. There
was a local plant that she didn't eat directly, but which produced seeds every
few weeks that got mixed in with the plants she did eat.  These made her sick;
or maybe stoned would be a better word. :->  My description of the plot is
fairly close to what it says in the book btw - early on Spielberg picked out
certain scenes he wanted to be in the movie, and they started work on them as
soon as they could (all that special effects work takes a lot of time.)  The
script was still being written, and rewritten at that point.  Some of the scenes
didn't work out (for example, there was supposed to be one of the kids playing
with a baby Triceratops that got as far as the model building stages, but
ultimately simply didn't fit anywhere.)  Anyway, by the end of the process, the
script was being rewritten around the setpieces, and anything else was pretty
much cut out.

Mind you some of the things they left in might have been better rewritten or
removed, namely some of Ian Malcom's earlier comments about Chaos theory (I
watched the movie with someone familiar with Chaos Theory and from what he says
that wasn't it...)  Crichton has one real annoying habit, and that's writing
with such a big axe to grind that it's hard to see past the sparks.  Every time
I've read something by him that included a science or technology I was
personally familiar with, he got it wrong.  Which of course left me with the
suspicion that everything I *didn't* know much about was inaccurate also.  I
finally gave up on reading his books because of that.

--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 245 of 469
 From : Bob Klahn                           1:234/2         .cê 28 .þë 96 15:39
 To   : Steven Ross
 Subj : BY FORCE OF ARMS
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 SR>  On 07-22-96 Bob Klahn wrote to Steven Ross...
 SR>
SR>>         Ah, but in a perfect world there wouldn't be wars.
BK>>   As long as we live in a world where there are wars, we should try to
BK>> do it right.
 SR>
 SR>         Thats hard to do when modern conflicts are governed but
 SR> political/econamic expedency.

 I was going to argue that point, but the image of Bush saying the price
 of gas would be $10/gallon if his opponent had won the election popped
 into my mind.

BK>>  Not a change in human nature, but a change in human organization. The
BK>>  existance of democracy as a major force in the world.
 SR>
 SR>         Ah but, the cornerstone of democracy is the right of everyone to
 SR> their own opinion. Therefore, isn't it anti-democratic to kill someone
 SR> just because his or her political opinions differ from your own?

    Yep.

SR>>         Define, good guys, without using western morality, philosphy or
SR>> politics.

BK>>  Why? Since western morality, philosophy and politics are the ones I
BK>> live in, why shouldn't I use them? Can you think of a philosophy that
 SR> exists
BK>> without any ethnic or national link?

 SR>         But, your also assumming everyone else is using the same set of

 No, I'm assuming I use that set of values. Most people actually do use
 pretty much the same set of values.

 SR>  values that you do. The camal herder thats just had his livelyhood
 SR>  destroyed by a US minefield, likely doesn't share your veiws on the
 SR>  benifits of western society.

 Actually, he does, he just wants a part of the benefits that don't blow
 up his herd.

BK>>  But, since western morality, philosophy and politics are so superior
BK>> they now dominate the world stage...

 SR>         I wouldn't say that around the French, if I were you...
 SR>

 Last I heard the French are western. Ok, they don't want to acknowledge
 the relationship, but we do share the same values.

BK>>  Correction, some Croats worked for the SS death squads over 50 years
BK>> ago. Most Croats alive today hadn't even been born then.

 SR>         True, but many of the crimes prepatrated today are being
 SR>  justifed by bringing up the crimes of the past. It's not right but
 SR>  then neither is judging a group by the actions of some of it's
 SR>  members. If America had such a moral high ground ask yourself why it
 SR>  so much time and so many deaths for them to act? Ask also why Sadam is
 SR>  still in power in Irac?

 I have been highly critical on those very points. Fortunately it
 happened, or started, under a republican administration.
 (gratuitous shot)

BK>>  Today democracy is the driving force in the world.
 SR>
 SR>         Most would say greed is the driving force.

 Well, they do rank right up there.

BK>>  Not possible, if *YOU* listen when they speak.

 SR>         Some people *DO* listen, but not nearly enougth and we never see
 SR> everything. Nor-do we see it from an imparcial point of veiw. Take any
 SR> historical battle and look at it as if you we're a reporter or historian
 SR> from the other-side. You'll note how easy it is to turn a hero into a
 SR> monster and vice-versa.

 Mostly to those who weren't there.

BK>>  Nothing a dictatorship does is legitimate, because a
BK>> dictatorship is not legitimate.
 SR>
SR>>         That depends who you ask.
 SR>
BK>>  Ask me, I'll tell you.
 SR>
 SR>         Yes, but you don't decide which government is legitimate. That

 Yes I do, for me.

 SR>         is done by Presidents, state departments and their equivilents.

 They decide who is recognized.
 ...

BK>>>  If two democracies go to war with each other then you may well have a
BK>>> case of two morally equal opponents, but I can't think of an example.
 SR>
 SR>         What about a democracy vs a tribal counsel?

 They are not necessarily different.

SR>>         But, there are no TRUE democracies anymore. The closest thing
SR>> to a true democracy in modern politics are the works of Karl Marx.
 SR>
BK>>  When were there ever a TRUE democracy? I don't ask for perfection.
BK>> The US is a democracy, as are the nations of Western Europe. Japan also,
BK>> and some others.
 SR>
 SR>         To a degree, the US is sort of a democracy, a representitive
 SR> democracy as opposed to an Athenian one. However, Canada, Britan, and

 Athens wasn't much of a democracy.

 SR> the rest of the UK are constitional monarchies. France has a socialist

 The British empire countries cited are democracies with a monarchial
 figurehead.

 SR> government. The others veri between these two. As for me, I demand at
 SR> least direct accountablilty from those who would rule me...

 Your desire, but still allows for variations in democracy.

 Reminds me of the story of the actor who was hired to impersonate a
 politician who had a stroke. The politician had just been selected as
 prime minister of an Earth under a figurehead emporer. Turned out the
 politician was an old friend of the emporer, and the emporer spotted the
 substitution immediately. He went along with it, however.

 Why do I think this was Heinlein?

 And, did you ever see the movie, _Dave_? And does the plot sound
 familiar?

 And did you notice how slyly I veered this back on topic? Pretty good for
 something straying that far, don't you think?

Bob Klahn

... Reality... An illusion induced by a lack of imagination...
 * Silver Xpress V4.02B03 RB10275

--- FLAME v1.1
 * Origin: Telnet toltbbs.com or call 313-854-6001, Boardwatch #55 (1:234/2)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 246 of 469
 From : Bob Klahn                           1:234/2         .cê 28 .þë 96 15:39
 To   : Todd Sullivan
 Subj : CANCELLED
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 BK>>  But it is a *fusion* reactor. All it produces is helium, and, of
 BK>> course,
 BK>>  lots and lots of heat. Well, maybe a few trace elements.

 TS> Last I knew, people were scared of those trace elements "putting out
 TS> the sun" a few years ago.  I always played with their minds that only a
 TS> few gigatons of it would do the trick, never bothering to mention that
 TS> the sun wouldn't notice...

 There was a suggestion of disposing of radioactive waste by dumping it in
 the sun. This raised objections of the possibility of triggering some
 sort of reaction. As if all the nuclear waste on earth would make a
 bubble on the sun.

 Of course, in _Bill the Galactic Hero_ they did manage to overload a
 star, but that was with ordinary garbage.

Bob Klahn

... When subtlety fails we must resort to cream pies.
 * Silver Xpress V4.02B03 RB10275

--- FLAME v1.1
 * Origin: Telnet toltbbs.com or call 313-854-6001, Boardwatch #55 (1:234/2)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 247 of 469
 From : Bob Klahn                           1:234/2         .cê 28 .þë 96 15:39
 To   : David Johnston
 Subj : BY FORCE OF ARMS
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
->> One of the major reasons for war, perhaps the major reason, is that a
->> dictatorship must have an enemy to survive. Since a dictatorship must
->> have

 DJ> Who says?  Egypt operated for extended periods of time without an
 DJ> external enemy.  Of course at that time, nobody had thought of any
 DJ> alternatives to dictatorship in the area...

 A: They enlisted religion to do it.
 B: They created their own.
 C: My bet is the pyramids were built more to keep the people busy and
 their minds off 'idle workshop' type stuff than for real religious
 reasons.
 D: Are you sure they didn't have enemies?
 E: How much of a real dictatorship were they at that time? A central
 co-ordinator could be tolerated while a tyrant would not be.

Bob Klahn

... 1.28*10E12 Furlongs/Fortnight..It's not just a good idea, it's the law.
 * Silver Xpress V4.02B03 RB10275

--- FLAME v1.1
 * Origin: Telnet toltbbs.com or call 313-854-6001, Boardwatch #55 (1:234/2)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 248 of 469
 From : Bob Klahn                           1:234/2         .cê 28 .þë 96 15:39
 To   : Glenn Shaheen
 Subj : REALISTIC SPACE SCENE
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 GS>  * OLX 2.2 * No, stupid, infertility is NOT hereditary.

 Actually it might be, if it develops later in life.

 Actually, it does develop later in life for all women, and many men.


Bob Klahn

... I invite dissenting opinions. I ignore them, but I do invite them.
 * Silver Xpress V4.02B03 RB10275

--- FLAME v1.1
 * Origin: Telnet toltbbs.com or call 313-854-6001, Boardwatch #55 (1:234/2)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 249 of 469
 From : Todd Sullivan                       1:202/720.3     .óá 27 .þë 96 23:33
 To   : Bob Klahn
 Subj : BY FORCE OF ARMS
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Reports from the Interior indicate that Bob Klahn leaked the following to Don
Bach, re: BY FORCE OF ARMS


 BK>  I don't know of any examples of two democracies going to war against
 BK> each  other.

If you care to stretch the term of democracy, Athens and Sparta would qualify.

 DB>> The territorial disputes in recent U.S. history:  The War of 1812, many
 DB>> wars with American Indian Nations, the War of Northern Aggression, the

 BK>  Is that last anything like the 'War to Preserve Slavery'?

Hey, sharpen your sarcasm a bit; you can get deeper cuts... <G>

Todd Sullivan

... "In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye..."

-*- ASTG 1.9

--- Spot 1.3a Unregistered
 * Origin: Todd's Spot in the Continuum (1:202/720.3)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 250 of 469
 From : Todd Sullivan                       1:202/720.3     .óá 27 .þë 96 23:35
 To   : Nicolai Shapero
 Subj : By Force OF Arms
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Reports from the Interior indicate that Nicolai Shapero leaked the following to
Don Bach, re: By Force OF Arms

 DB>> The territorial disputes in recent U.S. history:  The War of
 DB>> 1812, many wars with American Indian Nations, the War of Northern
 DB>> Aggression, the Spanish-American War, the Great War, World War
 DB>> II, The Korean Police Action, the Vietnam Police Action, the War
 DB>> in Angola, the Persian Gulf War.

 NS> Dare I say it, that I see a certain bias just in the names that are
 NS> attached to the conflicts in question here?

Sounds like another of those "we shoulda' minded our own business" type of
speeches.

And when were we involved in Angola?

Somalia doesn't count, unless you consider "armed humanitaritan aid" as a "war".

Todd Sullivan

... KoshDOS:  "You have always hit the key."

-*- ASTG 1.9

--- Spot 1.3a Unregistered
 * Origin: Todd's Spot in the Continuum (1:202/720.3)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 251 of 469
 From : Frank Glover                        1:2613/477      .cê 28 .þë 96 14:11
 To   : Bob Klahn
 Subj : Re: CANCELLED
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

BK>  BK>>   FG>    prefers to warp a piece of space from here to there,
BK>  rather
BK>  BK>>
BK>  BK>>   I believe that's the basic principle Heinlein used in a novel
BK>  I
BK>
BK>   FG>    Sounds like `Tunnel in the Sky.'
BK>
BK>   That does sound right. I'm lousy on names and titles, but pretty
BK>  good on
BK>   plots.

   Yes, that also used a space warping `teleportation' technique over
interstellar distances. (The inventor, however, first thought he'd connected to
another world with jungle-like vegatation...passed through, only to find himself
in the garden of an Earthly tropical hotel...!) As I recall, the system was used
by Outward Bound-like groups for survival training, but the operation of the
system required detailed knowledge of the curvature (and therefore the mass
distribution) of space between the points of departure and arrival, then a star
in this part of the galaxy goes nova, upsetting everything, and leaving the
survivalists stranded for several years, until everything can be re-measured and
re-calibrated. (In the meantime, the strandees speculate on a major Earth war,
or anything else that might've kept them from being picked up again.)

   Frank

   (Note that it's been about 25 years since I read it, though...)


--- QuickBBS 2.81 GoldBase (Zeta-2.0)
 * Origin: The Matrix Data Bank BBS, Rochester, Ny (1:2613/477)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 252 of 469
 From : Frank Glover                        1:2613/477      .cê 28 .þë 96 14:43
 To   : Todd Sullivan
 Subj : Re: Cancelled
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

TS>   ->> But it is a *fusion* reactor. All it produces is helium, and, of
TS>   ->> course, lots and lots of heat. Well, maybe a few trace elements.
TS>
TS>   DJ> Actually fusion reactions do produce radiation.
TS>
TS>  90% of which is in the form of neutrinos and fusion products, which
TS>  give it up as heat.

   It now depends on which fusion cycle is involved now. If I remember
correctly, the proton-proton cycle the Sun uses produces primairily gamma rays
(but the wavelength changes as the energy works its way out from the core).
Deuterium-deuterium may be the easiest fusion cycle to acheive in controlled
reactors, but tends to produce quite a few neutrons (which still heat structures
that absorb them, and this heat can be used in the usual manner...but neutron
bombardment tends to make metals brittle, too). Helium-3 and deuterium tends to
produce high-energy charged particles, which can be more efficently converted to
electricity, but require higher tempratures.

   Understand, I'm working off the top of my head here, so I accept any more
detailed corrections anyone may have.

   For a good article on even more exotic possibilites with controlled fusion,
and space propulsion, see `The Farther Shores of Fusion' by Thomas Donaldson, a
non-fiction article in the March 1988 Analog.

   Frank

   P.S. The Sun is actually not producing *enough* neutrinos, compared to what
theory pridicts. No one has a good explanation for this, yet...


--- QuickBBS 2.81 GoldBase (Zeta-2.0)
 * Origin: The Matrix Data Bank BBS, Rochester, Ny (1:2613/477)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 253 of 469
 From : Frank Glover                        1:2613/477      .cê 28 .þë 96 14:55
 To   : Todd Sullivan
 Subj : Re: CANCELLED
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

TS>   BK>  But it is a *fusion* reactor. All it produces is helium, and,
TS>  of
TS>   BK> course,
TS>   BK>  lots and lots of heat. Well, maybe a few trace elements.
TS>
TS>  Last I knew, people were scared of those trace elements "putting out
TS>  the sun" a few years ago.  I always played with their minds that only
TS>  a few gigatons of it would do the trick, never bothering to mention
TS>  that the sun wouldn't notice...

   Now and then in the Space Development Echo, the discussion of disposing of
nuclear waste in the Sun comes up (simply not practical and econimical at this
time anyway), and someone worries about the effect this would have on the Sun.
And I try to show them that heavy elements from meteors, asteroids, comets, etc
have been raining into the Sun for billions of years.

  Indeed, new theories of planet formation suggest that whole planets slowly
spiral into their parent stars before the remaining dust and gas from which
they're formed has been used up, and angular momentum can no longer be
transferred to it, robbing the young planets of orbital velocity. This may be
why we now detect Jupiter (or greater) mass planets blisteringly close to their
stars, where they shouldn't be able to form.

   (Recently, a super-Jovian planet was detected near the star Lalande 21185,
where cruder methods had given similar indications decades ago. This will no
doubt please Hal Clement who set the story `Star Light' [sequel to `Mission of
Gravity] there....)

   Frank


--- QuickBBS 2.81 GoldBase (Zeta-2.0)
 * Origin: The Matrix Data Bank BBS, Rochester, Ny (1:2613/477)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 254 of 469
 From : Frank Glover                        1:2613/477      .cê 28 .þë 96 14:59
 To   : David Johnston
 Subj : Re: Cgi Vs Models
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

DJ>  -> movie, and everything else is subordinated to them, witness
DJ>  Jurassic
DJ>  -> Park, where the script was written, re-written, re-re-written and
DJ>  -> generally mangled during most of the filming process, until it
DJ>  -> existed only as an excuse to get from one setpiece to the next.
DJ>  The
DJ>  -> dinosaurs were great but effects alone simply aren't enough.
DJ>
DJ>  The movie only existed so that people could encounter dinosaurs.  The
DJ>  book wasn't plot or character heavy either.
DJ>
DJ>  I'm still irritated about the flagrant abuse of chaos theory.

   Agreed. I never read the original novel, but still, the movie did succeed as
an edge-of-seat adventure story.

  And yes, Chaos Theory really had little to do with the events, it was more an
exercise in Murphy's Law...plus the fact that the park was deliberately
sabotged, which (as recent events show) *any* system or undertaking is
vulnerable to....

   Frank


--- QuickBBS 2.81 GoldBase (Zeta-2.0)
 * Origin: The Matrix Data Bank BBS, Rochester, Ny (1:2613/477)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 255 of 469
 From : Frank Glover                        1:2613/477      .cê 28 .þë 96 15:03
 To   : David Johnston
 Subj : Re: By Force Of Arms
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

DJ>  -> DJ><sigh>  And WHY did the southern states want to leave?
DJ>  -> Just economics, really.
DJ>
DJ>  And was slavery a major economic factor in the region at the time?

   As Kay pointed out, yes indeed. Strangely enough, the invention of the Cotton
Gin helped make it so. Before that, seperating the seeds from cotton was so
labor intensive, added to the cost of maintaining slaves, it was barely worth
it. Mechanize that, and now your labor can concentrate on growing the stuff.

   Frank


--- QuickBBS 2.81 GoldBase (Zeta-2.0)
 * Origin: The Matrix Data Bank BBS, Rochester, Ny (1:2613/477)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 256 of 469
 From : Todd Sullivan                       1:202/720.3     .ÿò 26 .þë 96 19:05
 To   : Frank Swarbrick
 Subj : Alien Nation
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Reports from the Interior indicate that Frank Swarbrick leaked the following to
All, re: Alien Nation

 FS> Trivia time:  In my opinion, the AN series far surpassed the original
 FS> theatrical movie.  Are there any others that anyone can think of there
 FS> the series was better than the movie?  MASH, probably, though I've
 FS> never seen the original movie.  Any others?  Just wondering...

I'd have to say the Highlander series has surpassed the movies.  You can only
tell a story a certain amount of times before becoming repeticious, and the
series has thrown a few interesting twists and explored areas none of the movies
had time for.

Todd Sullivan

... "It's more than wicked, my dear, it's vulgar." -- /Punch/

-*- ASTG 1.9

--- Spot 1.3a Unregistered
 * Origin: Todd's Spot in the Continuum (1:202/720.3)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 257 of 469
 From : Todd Sullivan                       1:202/720.3     .ÿò 26 .þë 96 19:08
 To   : Ken Mayes
 Subj : CGI vs Models
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Reports from the Interior indicate that Ken Mayes leaked the following to
Michael Harper, re: CGI vs Models

 KM> On Thu 25-Jul-1996  3:02a, Michael Harper wrote:

 MH>>  A solid block of wood?!? Damn. I knew Matt was good, but this is
 MH>>  unreal.

 KM>         Maybe, but that is what I read. There was no mention of what
 KM> kind of wood...it could have been Balsa for all I know.
 KM> Backpeddle...backpeddle...:)

According to /The/ /Making/ /of/ /Star/ /Trek/ (Stephen Whitfield), Matt
Jeffries made the original Enterprise in a single day out of hardwood for
Roddenberry to show to the studio execs.

Wouldn't have been too hard for him to run off another, from what the book says.

Todd Sullivan

... "All that is human must retrograde if it do not advance."
     --Edward Gibbon

-*- ASTG 1.9

--- Spot 1.3a Unregistered
 * Origin: Todd's Spot in the Continuum (1:202/720.3)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 258 of 469
 From : Nicolai Shapero                     1:102/524       .îí 29 .þë 96 05:55
 To   : Bob Klahn
 Subj : BY FORCE OF ARMS
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Jul 27 17:33>, Bob Klahn (1:234/2) wrote to Nicolai Shapero:

 DJ>><sigh>  And WHY did the southern states want to leave?
 NS> Just economics, really.
 BK> Yeah, abolishing slavery would have been very expensive.

It had nothing directly to do with abolishing slavery; that didn't become an
issue until well after the war started.  I'd suggest that you pick up a decent
history book and read up on the Civil War.

-- Nicolai Shapero, the Mad Russian Sysop of StormGate Aerie

--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 259 of 469
 From : Nicolai Shapero                     1:102/524       .îí 29 .þë 96 05:57
 To   : Don Bach
 Subj : BY FORCE OF ARMS
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Jul 27 10:02>, Don Bach (1:3632/65) wrote to Bob Klahn:

 DB>I can think of two:  The War of 1812 (England has been a
 DB>democracy since the Magna Carta) and the War of Northern
 DB>Aggression.

It's commonly referred to in non-revisionist history books as the Civil War.

-- Nicolai Shapero, the Mad Russian Sysop of StormGate Aerie

--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 260 of 469
 From : Nicolai Shapero                     1:102/524       .îí 29 .þë 96 05:59
 To   : Don Bach
 Subj : By Force OF Arms
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Jul 27 10:20>, Don Bach (1:3632/65) wrote to Nicolai Shapero:

 DB>Sure you can say it, and I'll admit to it!  There was nothing
 DB>civil about the War of Northern Aggression.  It was a war between
 DB>two countries.  Actually, the last time I referred to it as the
 DB>Civil War, I was chastised by my wife who's ancestors were
 DB>cousins to General Lee.

It is commonly referred to as the Civil War.  And it wasn't between two
countries -- it was between the central government and a secessionist group that
called itself the Confederacy.  Please recall who fired the first shot.  The
revisionists who regard it as "Northern Aggression" obviously don't quite
understand that (a) they lost the fight, and (b) their side fired the first
shot.

Of course, the idea of the primarily agricultural South taking on the primarily
industrial North was a little bit silly to begin with.  And had the likes of Lee
NOT gone for the South (IIRC he was offered senior commands in both armies) the
war would have been MUCH shorter.

 DB>I have found a name of one of my
 DB>ancestors listed in the Ilinois Memorial in the Vicksburg
 DB>Military Park, so we had relatives on both sides of that
 DB>conflict.

Not uncommon.  People who can trace their ancestry to Kentucky can be almost
certain that members of their ancestors families fought on both sides.

-- Nicolai Shapero, the Mad Russian Sysop of StormGate Aerie

--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 261 of 469
 From : Boris CDuke                         2:463/2.22      .pä 31 .þë 96 21:42
 To   : All
 Subj : Worldcon
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Two Ukrainian fans are going to attend %subj% in LA. One of them - Leonid
Kouritz (maybe someone knows him personally) - will need crash space after the
con for sightseeing purpose (no chance during the con :)). Volunteers are
welcome to write to me at 2:463/2.22 or 2:463/702.22 or via internet:
boris@sfclub.freenet.kiev.ua or klen@public.ua.net. I'm also available on IRC at
#ukraine. Thanx.

Best witches, Boris Sidyuk, Kiev, Ukraine.

 * Origin: Imagineering (2:463/2.22)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 262 of 469
 From : Marco Catalano                      2:2802/152.3    .óá 27 .þë 96 21:51
 To   : Leman Russ
 Subj : Realistic space scenes
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Hello Leman!


Friday July 19 1996, Leman Russ writes to All:

 LR> Point 3. The most realistic, IMNSHO, space special effects was Space:1999.
 LR> The eagles looked realistic and were filmed in a belieavble manner,
 LR> looking more like I'd expect real spacecraft and a lunar enviernment to
 LR> loook likethan anything I've seen before or since.

You're right, Russ.

But to be honest, I can't really remember much about Space:1999.
I was very young when the show aired.
I can remember an episode in wich the Eagles were docked with some very old
spacestation, and all of the sudden what appeared to be wires was comming to
life! They had to make a run for the airlocks, with all those wriggling
wire-like things after them.

Do you by chance remember that episode?


Greetings from Marco
BYE!



... My hard disk is full! Maybe I'll try this message section thing.

--- FMail/386 1.02
 * Origin: Specially made for Leman! (2:2802/152.3)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 263 of 469
 From : Frank Swarbrick                     1:104/825       .cê 28 .þë 96 19:53
 To   : Cheryl Simonye
 Subj : Alien Nation
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12  92-0022
On 07-27-96  00:22, shipwrecked and comatose, Cheryl Simonye said:

 FS>Does anyone know if any more Alien Nation movies are going to be made?
 FS>I've been watching the series on the Sci-Fi Channel recently, and I

 CS> I've been wondering that myself.  I watched the entire series
 CS> when it first came out, and recently watched the repeats.. but
 CS> I haven't heard anything about any new episodes.  I thought it
 CS> was an excellent show, and was disappointed when they stopped
 CS> airing it altogether for a couple of years!

The show itself only lasted one season (22 episodes, I assume).  That
was back in, what, 1988 or so.  Over the last year or two there have
been three two-hour TV movies.  That's all!

        Frank

... Let them eat static!
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12
 * Origin: The Bailey Information Exchange BBS, 28.8k v.fc  (1:104/825.0)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 264 of 469
 From : David Johnston                      1:342/14        .òp 30 .þë 96 00:37
 To   : Bob Klahn
 Subj : By Force Of Arms
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
-> ->> One of the major reasons for war, perhaps the major reason, is
-> that a ->> dictatorship must have an enemy to survive. Since a
-> dictatorship must ->> have
-> DJ> Who says?  Egypt operated for extended periods of time without an
-> DJ> external enemy.  Of course at that time, nobody had thought of
-> any DJ> alternatives to dictatorship in the area...
-> A: They enlisted religion to do it.

OF COURSE they did!  Dictatorships ALWAYS try to enlist religion to
solidify control.

-> B: They created their own.

Their own what?

-> C: My bet is the pyramids were built more to keep the people busy and
-> their minds off 'idle workshop' type stuff than for real religious
-> reasons.

Most egyptologists agree with you, but it does show that there are
alternatives.

-> D: Are you sure they didn't have enemies?

They went through periods of at least a century or two at a time when
the idea of any of their neighbors attacking was frankly laughable, and
they didn't bother trying to expand.

-> E: How much of a real dictatorship were they at that time? A central
-> co-ordinator could be tolerated while a tyrant would not be.

You are drawing a distinction too fine for me.  They were not elected
and their word was generally law, (as long they had priestly and army
support).  If someone booted one out, he was simply replaced with
a new dynasty.  They were as much dictators as any other monarch, and
most wars have been waged by monarchs.

--- PCBoard (R) v15.21/100
 * Origin: Freddy's Place - Edm. AB - 33.6K (403) 413-3460 (1:342/14)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 265 of 469
 From : Bob Klahn                           1:234/2         .îí 29 .þë 96 18:30
 To   : Nicolai Shapero
 Subj : BY FORCE OF ARMS
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 NS> On <Jul 25 21:05>, Bob Klahn (1:234/2) wrote to Don Bach:

 BK>> I don't know of any examples of two democracies going to war
 BK>>against each
 BK>> other.

 NS> US and Great Britain.  The War of 1812.

 Wasn't the King still holding power then, rather than the figurehead the
 soveriegn is today. Wasn't it a real monarchy rather than a titular one?

BOB KLAHN   bob.klahn@toltbbs.com

... As if you could kill time without injuring eternity.   Thoreau
 * Silver Xpress V4.3P RB10275

--- FLAME v1.1
 * Origin: Telnet toltbbs.com or call 313-854-6001, Boardwatch #55 (1:234/2)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 266 of 469
 From : Darre LuAllen                       1:3637/1        .îí 29 .þë 96 08:41
 To   : Don Bach
 Subj : B5 Renewed
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 On 07-27-96 Don Bach wrote to Darre LuAllen...

 DL>  A strange bird, I consider myself an older fan and almost an Original

 DL>  Trekker (TM, Kay Shapiro).  In fact, I've been a SF
 DL> fan since I was three
 DL>  or four.  My father, God rest his soul, used to watch SF tv and movies
 DL>  with me.  I think it is because of him that I love the genre so much.

 DB> I am an "Original Treker" and also a B5 fan.  I just wish
 DB> they would show it at a reasonable hour here.

 Seems to be the rule, no the exception (as for time shown).  For a while,
 we had two stations showing B5.  Now, one is dropping it because WB has
 decided to pull it from any station without Nielsson rating capability.
 The station is a WB affiliate.  The other station is a big "Trek"
 station.  I think either the owner or program director is an SF fan.
 However, they have moved B5 to Sunday nights.  They are a FOX affiliate,
 so those of us who tape B5 are in trouble when football season starts.
 I think my only hope is a friend who works at the WB station.  He still
 plans to pull the show of satellite.  So, I guess I'll get to see it.

 DB> My dad let me stay up late to watch the original NBC airing
 DB> of ST when they moved it to 9PM Eastern.  I believe NBC
 DB> killed this show when they moved it into this late time
 DB> slot.

 Another SF fan since birth.  And yes, I agree about moving shows.  Look
 what happened to Brisco Country Jr and Quantum Leap.  Digressing into
 conspiracy theory mode:  If NBC couldn't get rid of the show because of
 letter writing campaigns, perhaps they decided to kill the show through
 lack of ratings.

 DB> My Dad is still here, but for just a few years - he has
 DB> emphasema and is still smoking......

 I'm happy and sad for you.  Happy because you still have him around, sad
 that he is stubborn about his health.  Everyone in my family smokes,
 except me.  I'm allergic (can't breathe when around cigarette smoke).
 Makes it fun when I go home.  Everyone is forced to smoke on the porch,
 so Christmas time is even more fun.  Maybe some of them will get tired of
 freezing and quit.

 DB> A few years ago we had a sucessfull small Star Trek con.  We don't
 DB> have a high population density, but we do have a lot of high-tech
 DB> people, mainly in the telecommunications industry (WorldCom
 DB> LDDS/Skytel).  The next year, the con was cancelled due to
 DB> lack of advance ticket sales and it will probably be a long
 DB> time before we have one again.  Personally, I was waiting
 DB> to buy tickets at the door, as I expect most of the
 DB> attendees were.


 Perhaps you can talk to someone from staff and try to work something out.
 A decent guest list will draw people from all over.  I've been to some
 cons in places God has forgotten just to see some specific guest.  I went
 to some hole in Georgia to see Bruce Boxlietner and Bruce Campbell (who
 was unable to show up).

 DB> There were no arguments whatsoever at our con, although it
 DB> was topic specific to ST.  Possibly a complete con devoted
 DB> to all SF topics would work.  We certainly have the
 DB> facilities to host a con of any size.

 At that size, four types of cons do fairly well: gaming, sub-genre
 specific, all-around and relaxicons.  Depending upon what type of fans
 you have in the area, a sub-genre or all-around would be best.  Just
 try to keep the overhead down.

 DL>  Several week ends before, I was at
 DL>  Dragon*Con (the monster of the South).

 DB> Where is this held?

 Atlanta.  People come from all over.  I can find info for you, if you
 wish.  Otherwise, they have a web page.

 DL>  Many of the discussions I overheard were very heated.
 DL>  Wearing one of my many B5 shirts, it was the older fans who
 DL>  would stop me and talk about the show (the whole
 DL>  reason I wear such things).  The youngsters looked at
 DL>  me with some small
 DL>  degree of contempt.  Not all of them, mind you.

 DB> That is really a shame.  I hope I'm teaching my children
 DB> tolerance of people and ideas they don't agree with.
 DB> Contempt for the ideas of others is not a good thing.

 Good.  This world needs as many open minded, considerate people
 as possible.  I'm beginning to think that everyone is forgetting
 history.  A lack of tolerance caused the South to became the biggest
 butt of jokes in American history.  Makes me sad.

 DB> I'll have to figure out a way to stay up tonight and watch
 DB> ST:V at 10:30 followed by B5 at 11:30 on our ABC affiliate.
 DB>  Highlander: The Series follows at 12:35 on our CBS

 Caffeine pills?  A speed ball?  Electro-shock to the {left out for
 matters of taste}?  Maybe just force of will and desire to see good
 SF TV?

 DB> affiliate.  I sure wish the Sci-Fi Channel would pick up ST
 DB> and B5.

 I don't.  I'd never get to see them.  Our cable system here won't
 expand for any reason.  Yet, we pay more than anyone else in the area.
___
 * OFFLINE 1.56 * Free Mars!  Limit two per customer.

--- Maximus/2 3.01
 * Origin: Cumberland BBS -TN- V34 (1:3637/1)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 267 of 469
 From : Darre LuAllen                       1:3637/1        .îí 29 .þë 96 10:01
 To   : Jeff Hancock
 Subj : Japanese SF
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 On 07-26-96 Jeff Hancock wrote to Leman Russ...

 LR> Beisdes GitS I could recomend Gall Force ifthe dubbed version is as
 LR>good an the subbed. >;[

 JH> That one seems to be popular.  Must be the babes. ;)

 Pro'ly.

 JH> What I'm curious about though, is has
 JH> anyone ever produced any music videos or parodies of other SF series
 JH> like Trek or Star Wars or whatever?  (and I don't mean like "Hardware
 JH> Wars", but reusing existing footage spliced into a new story with
 JH> altered dialogue).  It'd be tricky, but it could technically be
 JH> done...
 JH> dunno how open to a lawsuit one would be, though.

 Several examples come to mind.  One such parady had Captain Harlock
 going against the Falcon and Deathstar.  Another used the tapes from
 the kiddie books and action figures.  This one wasn't so much a parady
 as a fan creation/attempt to pay homage.  A guy I knew use to make
 music videos out of SF shows.  My favorite was the one to Kansas'
 "Fight Fire with Fire" using Kirk and Khan scenes from STII and STTOS.
 He was very talented, but was killed years ago.  Some woman knifed him
 at an ATM for ten bucks.

 JH> The one I want to see is the fan parody "Dirty Pair Does Dishes"...
 JH> <g>

 Does this exist in reality or just as an extension of your own warped
 imagination?
___
 * OFFLINE 1.56 * * ERROR - [A]bort, [R]etry, [F]rag the damn thing.

--- Maximus/2 3.01
 * Origin: Cumberland BBS -TN- V34 (1:3637/1)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 268 of 469
 From : Darre LuAllen                       1:3637/1        .îí 29 .þë 96 10:05
 To   : Jeff Hancock
 Subj : Japanese SF
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 On 07-26-96 Jeff Hancock wrote to Leman Russ...

 LR> Project A-ko is one long in joke for anime fhans. Among the ones I

 LR> -The title is a take off of a japanese video called "project a"

 JH> From what I understand, Jackie Chan and whomever else was involved in
 JH> directing/writing acknowledged that joke in their sequel, where they
 JH> had four villians named "A", "B", "C", and "D".

 The version I heard is that "ko" is Japanese for girl.  Therefore, the
 stars were "A girl", "B girl" and "C girl".

___
 * OFFLINE 1.56 * It's morphin' time!


--- Maximus/2 3.01
 * Origin: Cumberland BBS -TN- V34 (1:3637/1)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 269 of 469
 From : Darre LuAllen                       1:3637/1        .îí 29 .þë 96 10:11
 To   : Frank Swarbrick
 Subj : The New Dark Shadows
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 On 07-26-96 Frank Swarbrick wrote to All...

 FS> I've been watching the new Dark Shadows (from 1991, I think) on the
 FS> Sci-Fi Channel recently.  I must say, I'm *very* presently surprised.
 FS> I've never seen the original daytime version from the 60's, but I'm am
 FS> really enjoying the "new" version.  Too bad it only lasted three
 FS> months.  The cast is, in my opinion, quite good.  They make what could
 FS> be a very hokey idea really fun to watch.

 The cast was excellent.  My sister was a big Dark Shadows fan, so I grew
 up hearing about it.  My mother would never let me watch it because "it
 would scare me."  I loved the '91 version.

 FS> Anyhow, anyone else watching it?

 I was in Saudi when it originally aired, but a friend taped it for me.
 I sat down and watched the first tape, only to find out he had lost the
 second tape.  I believe there were 13 episodes.  So, I missed most of it.
 Years later, another friend happened to have them, so I watched the whole
 series in one day.  Wow.

 FS> p.s.  For any Highlander fans, Adrian Paul was in tonight's episode,
 FS> and will probably be in the next few at least.  I don't watch

 Not to give anything away, but he gets a real raw deal.  I think you
 will agree when you see it.

 FS> Barnabas Collins.  Oh, and can't forget Jean Simmons...

 Didn't she play bass in a rock band? <GD&R>
___
 * OFFLINE 1.56 * DOS never says EXCELLENT command or filename...


--- Maximus/2 3.01
 * Origin: Cumberland BBS -TN- V34 (1:3637/1)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 270 of 469
 From : Darre LuAllen                       1:3637/1        .îí 29 .þë 96 10:14
 To   : Frank Swarbrick
 Subj : The sci-fi channel?
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 On 07-26-96 Frank Swarbrick wrote to Gary Warren...

 FS> Welp, off to watch Kolchak: The Night Stalker!

 I'm jealous.  I loved that show.  I use to stay up every Friday night
 to see it (IIRC).  Oh, well.  CBS use to have a great late night line-up
 before talk shows.
___
 * OFFLINE 1.56 * What evil lurks in the hearts of the Centauri? ... the Shadows
know!

--- Maximus/2 3.01
 * Origin: Cumberland BBS -TN- V34 (1:3637/1)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 271 of 469
 From : Patrick Duda                        1:218/801       .òp 30 .þë 96 02:05
 To   : Todd Sullivan
 Subj : Alien Nation
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12  91-0018

>I'd have to say the Highlander series has surpassed the movies.  You can
>only tell a story a certain amount of times before becoming repeticious,
>and the series has thrown a few interesting twists and explored areas none
>of the movies had time for.

  Absoloutely. I think that series has incredible possibilities. After all,
  you have dozens of lifetimes from which to tell stories. It would be
  nice if maybe once in a while they acutally did an entire episode in
  the past.
---
 * MikeMayl v1.0 * --T-A+G-L-I+N-E--+M-E-A+S-U-R+I-N-G+--G-A+U-G-E--

--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12
 * Origin: Star Tech Diamond Bar, CA 909-396-4227 714-257-1175  (1:218/801.0)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 272 of 469
 From : Patrick Duda                        1:218/801       .òp 30 .þë 96 02:05
 To   : Mark Jones
 Subj : B5 RENEWED
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12  91-0018

>Cops don't act like real-world cops.  Automobiles fly through the air
>like airplanes...and land, and keep going.  Handguns are treated like
>magic wands.  Sound effects in space....

  There have been a lot of times where i've turned off a movie simply
  because of it's incredibly stupid plot tricks. Esp when they start doing
  things like uploading viruses into a totally alien (literally) computer
  system.

>Some of it is intentional.  I don't think any moron in Hollywood
>*really* believes that sound travels in a vacuum--but they insist on
>sound effects because they believe the audience wants it (and they may
>be right, in some cases).

  I personally prefer full orchestral soundtrack and sfx in space battles.
  While most certainly not accurate, I think the extra depth it gives to
  the experience outweighs the lack of accuracy.
---
 * MikeMayl v1.0 * Press any key to continue or any other key to quit

--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12
 * Origin: Star Tech Diamond Bar, CA 909-396-4227 714-257-1175  (1:218/801.0)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 273 of 469
 From : Owen E. Oulton                      1:243/45        .îí 29 .þë 96 13:37
 To   : Steven Ross
 Subj : By Force Of Arms
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 SR>         To a degree, the US is sort of a democracy, a representitive
 SR> democracy as opposed to an Athenian one. However, Canada, Britan, and the
 SR> rest of the UK are constitional monarchies. France has a socialist
 SR> government. The others veri between these two. As for
 SR> me, I demand at least

Steve, I can't believe you really know so little about your own government.
First, Canada is not a part of the United Kindgom, which includes only England,
Scotland, Wales and Ulster; we are a part of the British Commonwealth, a
voluntary group of former members of the British Empire who have decided to
retain the Queen as Head of State.  We have an elected Government and set our
own foreign and monetary policy.  As for France, they too are a representative
democracy.  They just happen to have elected the Socialist Party as their
current government.

CFN, O

--- Maximus 2.01wb
 * Origin: Pandora's Box, Ottawa, Ont. 613-829-1209 (1:243/45)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 274 of 469
 From : Frank Swarbrick                     1:104/825       .óá 27 .þë 96 19:19
 To   : Kevin Ahearn
 Subj : Alien Nation
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12  92-0022
On 07-26-96  18:54, shipwrecked and comatose, Kevin Ahearn said:

 FS> Does anyone know if any more Alien Nation movies are going to be made?

 KA> Yep.  There will be two more coming out next season.

Yea!!

Are these going to be from the AN novels as well?  I haven't read any
of the books, but I seem to recall that at least _Dark Horizon_ and
_Body and Soul_ were books first, and maybe _Millennium_ as well.
Which is interesting because generally spin off books (Star Trek,
etc.) aren't very good.

        Frank

... Someone's at the door...
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12
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Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 275 of 469
 From : Frank Swarbrick                     1:104/825       .cê 28 .þë 96 19:12
 To   : All
 Subj : Dune movie
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12  92-0022
I just saw the movie of Dune on the Sci-Fi Channel yesterday.  I've
never read the book, but the movie didn't seem to make much sense.
But I know that's been said before.  Anyway, wasn't it directed by
David Lynch?  The version I saw said "Directed by Alan Smithee," or
some such thing, but I'm quite sure it was Lynch if only because half
a dozen of the actors (at least) are among the ones he likes to use.
Anyhow, did he think the movie so bad as well that he took his name
off it?  I'm fairly certain that the video version I've seen at the
store says he directed it, so I guess it's just the long version he
took his name off.

Whatever...  Just pondering...

        Frank

... There was a fish...in the percolator.
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12
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Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 276 of 469
 From : Roger Fingas                        1:163/215       .cê 28 .þë 96 14:08
 To   : All
 Subj : Space: Above and Beyond fans?
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Are there any fans of that show here?

--- Maximus 3.01
 * Origin: BitByters BBS, Rockland ON, Can. (613)446-7773 v34, (1:163/215)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 277 of 469
 From : Robert Parson                       1:3822/1        .îí 29 .þë 96 09:15
 To   : Frank Swarbrick
 Subj : RE: ALIEN NATION
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
FRANK had a few words to say about Re: ALIEN NATION

 FS> Does anyone know if any more Alien Nation movies are going to be made?

I think there's at least one more either in production or possibly even ready
to air.  I've lost track of these things.


 FS> Trivia time:  In my opinion, the AN series far surpassed the original
 FS> theatrical movie.  Are there any others that anyone can think of there
 FS> the series was better than the movie?  MASH, probably, though I've
 FS> never seen the original movie.  Any others?  Just wondering...

That pretty much covers it.  Very few shows that have been direct spinoffs
of theatricals have been any good or last very long.  I suppose the case can
be made that Battlestar Galactica and Buck Rogers were based on a theatrical
feature since thier pilots were released to theatres before being aired on
tv.  But it wouldn't be a very strong case.



The Official NEWSBOB(tm) of the 1996 Olympics

 * Silver Xpress V4.3 SW23473

--- QScan/PCB v1.19b / 01-0162
 * Origin: Jackalope Junction 501-785-5381 Ft Smith AR (1:3822/1)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 278 of 469
 From : Kay Shapero                         1:102/524       .îí 29 .þë 96 12:25
 To   : Bob Klahn
 Subj : BY FORCE OF ARMS
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Jul 28 15:39>, Bob Klahn (1:234/2) wrote to Steven Ross:

 SR>         Thats hard to do when modern conflicts are governed but
 SR> political/econamic expedency.

 BK> I was going to argue that point, but the image of Bush saying
 BK>the price of gas would be $10/gallon if his opponent had won the
 BK>election popped into my mind.

Sigh... I do wonder just how far up the decision was made to give Saddam Hussein
the impression he could annex Kuwait with impunity.  I suppose it *could* have
been an accident, but somehow I doubt it.

 SR>         What about a democracy vs a tribal counsel?

 BK> They are not necessarily different.

In which case if you want an example of conflict between the two, go read the
early history of the United States... :(

 BK> Reminds me of the story of the actor who was hired to
 BK>impersonate a politician who had a stroke. The politician had just been
 BK>selected as prime minister of an Earth under a figurehead emporer.
 BK>Turned out the politician was an old friend of the emporer, and the
 BK>emporer spotted the substitution immediately. He went along with it,
 BK>however.

 BK> Why do I think this was Heinlein?

Probably because it was.  _Double Star_. Good book, too.

--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 279 of 469
 From : Jeff Hancock                        1:3600/7        .cê 28 .þë 96 20:17
 To   : All
 Subj : Gundam 0083
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Well, I just finished watching the first two episodes of Gundam 0083.
Kind of an interesting series.  Space opera, if the giant battling
robots with laser swords and shields equally as tall as they are didn't
give it away, but the series seems to be designed moderately well, with
at least an attempt at realism.

Of course, this doesn't keep it from having holes in it you could drive
your average M-class planet through. ;-)

It starts out with the conclusion of a space battle, which doesn't go
into details, but the retreat of one side resulted in a truce which now,
apparently has been broken.  The two relative sides appear to be the
Federation (of what?), which is of those loyal to Earth, and the Zions,
who are not fond of Earth.  I would guess this is a case of space or
planet colonies breaking ties with the mother planet.

Anyway, the plot so far involves a Zion strike, with the help of a spy,
to steal a new Gundam suit equipped with some form of nuclear warhead.
My first impression was that security is the worst I've ever seen,
including in Star Trek.  The Gundams are absolutely unguarded, all the
infiltrator needed was to wear a loyal uniform to walk right in and take
it as if he owned the thing... apparently there were no security
protocols on the suit itself.  To top it off, they were going to test
the design with a live warhead and *loaded* the blasted thing the night
before the intended trial run!  Correct me if I'm wrong, but when you're
playing with something on the scale of nukes (even low-yield), you would
generally not load it until just before the unit was deployed, no?

The apparent love interest was a complete boob as well; it was
established in the second episode that she was completely green at
combat, but even so one would think that the first thing you would do at
an unknown, unauthorized individual preparing to board a prototype
weapons platform is sound the alarm, not try and talk him out of it.

Of course, the enemy commander wasn't exactly a genius either, since he
makes no effort to disable the other Gundam suit before he leaves and
seems to take no notice of the person boarding said suit to go in
pursuit.  It may be overconfidence, but as things were, he could have
just sneaked in with a cohort and taken *both* the damned things.

Aside from that it was interesting, if a little slow-paced to start
with, and when the action did start it was rather disorienting and
confusing despite the wild color schemes of the mecha in question.  I
think that some knowledge of the various unit capabilities was somewhat
assumed.  Nevertheless, it's been somewhat interesting so far, and they
didn't pull off the cliche of the new recruits managing to take down the
seasoned troops like some shows have. ;-)
-=-
 * Crazy-J * The best diskettes at the best price.  AOL Brand (TM).

--- SLMAIL v3.5C  (#1540)
 * Origin: Robotech  -=-Fansubbed anime available upon request-=- (1:3600/7)

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 Msg  : 280 of 469
 From : Frank Glover                        1:2613/477      .îí 29 .þë 96 20:30
 To   : Mark Jones
 Subj : Re: Scheduling SF shows
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

MJ>   FG>    And with respect to how Mulder finally dies...what did that
MJ>  guy say
MJ>   FG> about autoerotic asphyxiation....??
MJ>
MJ>     I think he was talking about himself, actually.  That *is* how
MJ>  Peter Boyle's character died at the end of the episode.

   Asphyxiation, yes. Autoerotic, no. That's a dangerous practice where people
engage in borderline strangulation to allegedly intensify orgasms. See the movie
`Rising Sun' with Sean Connery where it's a signifigant part of the plot....

   (And *don't* try it at home, kids! Some have gone too far and died that way.)

   Frank


--- QuickBBS 2.81 GoldBase (Zeta-2.0)
 * Origin: The Matrix Data Bank BBS, Rochester, Ny (1:2613/477)

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 Msg  : 281 of 469
 From : Frank Glover                        1:2613/477      .îí 29 .þë 96 20:43
 To   : Don Bach
 Subj : Re: BY FORCE OF ARMS
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

DB>  utopia!).  Star Wars seems to break all racial barriers, but shows a
DB>  war between good and evil dictatorships (aren't the rebel forces

   Even there, there seemed to be a race-like attitude against droids, if that
bartender's actions on Tattoine are any example....

   Frank


--- QuickBBS 2.81 GoldBase (Zeta-2.0)
 * Origin: The Matrix Data Bank BBS, Rochester, Ny (1:2613/477)

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 Msg  : 282 of 469
 From : Frank Glover                        1:2613/477      .îí 29 .þë 96 20:51
 To   : Bob Klahn
 Subj : Re: BY FORCE OF ARMS
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

BK>   Reminds me of the story of the actor who was hired to impersonate a
BK>   politician who had a stroke. The politician had just been selected
BK>  as
BK>   prime minister of an Earth under a figurehead emporer. Turned out
BK>  the
BK>   politician was an old friend of the emporer, and the emporer spotted
BK>  the
BK>   substitution immediately. He went along with it, however.
BK>
BK>   Why do I think this was Heinlein?
BK>
BK>   And, did you ever see the movie, _Dave_? And does the plot sound
BK>   familiar?

   I think `Moon over Parador' used this idea as well, (a Flintstone episode
also comes to mind...) but you're probably thinking of Heinlein's `Double Star.'

   Frank


--- QuickBBS 2.81 GoldBase (Zeta-2.0)
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 Msg  : 283 of 469
 From : Frank Glover                        1:2613/477      .îí 29 .þë 96 20:53
 To   : Bob Klahn
 Subj : Re: REALISTIC SPACE SCENE
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

BK>   GS>  * OLX 2.2 * No, stupid, infertility is NOT hereditary.
BK>
BK>   Actually it might be, if it develops later in life.
BK>
BK>   Actually, it does develop later in life for all women, and many men.

   He's right, though. If your parents didn't have children, chances are you
won't either. <G>

   Frank


--- QuickBBS 2.81 GoldBase (Zeta-2.0)
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 Msg  : 284 of 469
 From : Frank Glover                        1:2613/477      .îí 29 .þë 96 21:02
 To   : Mark Jones
 Subj : Re: Alien Nation
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

MJ>     Unless Sikes and Cathy are going to "do it" in a meat locker, or
MJ>  somebody wears a full-body condom, Cathy is going to suffer serious
MJ>  skin irritation problems.  Hot, sweaty sex = sweat = salt water =
MJ>  major league discomfort for Cathy.

   Good point. Hell, she can't so much as wipe his tears away without risk. And
being a medical professional, there'd be all too many opprotunites to be exposed
to salty (did they ever say just how much salt it takes to trigger a reaction?)
human fluids, or sterile saline which can be found in any hospital.

   Assuming they could tell from a distance (and they probably had no choice
anyway), it was pretty gutsy to take refuge on a world that, for them, is about
75% covered with acid....

   Frank


--- QuickBBS 2.81 GoldBase (Zeta-2.0)
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 Msg  : 285 of 469
 From : Kevin Ahearn                        1:109/104       .òp 30 .þë 96 00:04
 To   : Don Bach
 Subj : BY FORCE OF ARMS
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 DB> Star Wars seems to break all racial barriers, but shows
 DB> a war between good and evil dictatorships (aren't the
 DB> rebel forces governed by a monarchy?).

I dunno...I always had the idea that teh rebel alliance was fighting to
re-establish the Old Republic.  I assume that would mean that folks like
Princess Leia would get to keep their fancy titles, but wouldn't necessarily be
guaranteed any actual power.

Sorta like modern-day Great Britain.

--Kevin

--- Maximus/2 3.01
 * Origin: ShanErin (1:109/104)

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 Msg  : 286 of 469
 From : Kevin Ahearn                        1:109/104       .òp 30 .þë 96 17:52
 To   : Frank Swarbrick
 Subj : Dune movie
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 FS> I just saw the movie of Dune on the Sci-Fi Channel yesterday.  I've
 FS> never read the book, but the movie didn't seem to make much sense.
 FS> But I know that's been said before.  Anyway, wasn't it directed by
 FS> David Lynch?  The version I saw said "Directed by Alan Smithee," or
 FS> some such thing, but I'm quite sure it was Lynch if only because half
 FS> a dozen of the actors (at least) are among the ones he likes to use.
 FS> Anyhow, did he think the movie so bad as well that he took his name
 FS> off it?  I'm fairly certain that the video version I've seen at the
 FS> store says he directed it, so I guess it's just the long version he
 FS> took his name off.

 FS> Whatever...  Just pondering...

You've got it exactly right.  Lynch did indeed direct _Dune_.  A few years after
the theatrical release, it was shown on a cable channel (don't recall which
one--in fact, it may have even been syndicated on broadcast tv, come to think of
it) with a few extra scenes added in to help explain what was going on. Lynch
didn't approve of the additional scenes and took his name off of the video
version.  "Alan Smithee" is a standard pseudonym for directors who wish to
remain anonymous.

--Kevin

--- Maximus/2 3.01
 * Origin: ShanErin (1:109/104)

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 Msg  : 287 of 469
 From : Roy LeBlanc                         1:396/17.40     .òp 30 .þë 96 18:31
 To   : Frank Swarbrick
 Subj : Dune movie
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On (28 Jul 96) Frank Swarbrick wrote to All...

 FS> I just saw the movie of Dune on the Sci-Fi Channel yesterday.  I've
 FS> never read the book, but the movie didn't seem to make much sense.
 FS> But I know that's been said before.  Anyway, wasn't it directed by
 FS> David Lynch?  The version I saw said "Directed by Alan Smithee," or
 FS> some such thing, but I'm quite sure it was Lynch if only because half
 FS> a dozen of the actors (at least) are among the ones he likes to use.

Alan Smithee is, I believe, a code name used by the Directors Guild of
America (DGA) in place of someone who wishes his name to be removed from
a project after it has gone beyond a certain point.  This usually happens
because the producers have altered the project beyond the director's vision.

I believe that Michael Medved or some other critic has catalogued these in
one of his collections as the "Films of Alan Smithee."  There is also a
column called "Alan Smithee's Unreel Cinema" in the magazine, _CINESCAPE_.

There are similar names used for actors (George Spelvin) and writers.
Harlan Elison had one of his tv projects altered so badly that he insisted
it be credited to a Cordwainer Bird, as I recall.

-Roy LeBlanc

... "More hay, Trigger?" "No thanks, Roy, I'm stuffed!"

--- PPoint 1.92
 * Origin: Roy's Point of Information (1:396/17.40)

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 Msg  : 288 of 469
 From : Frank Glover                        1:2613/477      .òp 30 .þë 96 20:55
 To   : Roger Fingas
 Subj : Re: Space: Above and Beyond fans?
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

RF>  Are there any fans of that show here?

   I only saw it once or twice, but there are *tons* of SAAB fans here. You must
be new, to have missed the threads. Welcome aboard.

   Frank


--- QuickBBS 2.81 GoldBase (Zeta-2.0)
 * Origin: The Matrix Data Bank BBS, Rochester, Ny (1:2613/477)

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 Msg  : 289 of 469
 From : Charles Daniels                     1:203/42        .òp 30 .þë 96 18:41
 To   : Frank Swarbrick
 Subj : Warped In Space
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

> Did anyone watch the show Warped In Space on the Sci-Fi Channel last
> week?  Definately warped!  Only problem is, it was neither very funny
> nor very interesting.

It seems to me some drunk guy had one episode of the UK series
Red Dwarf (an excellent comedy sf show) and one episode of Beavis
& Butthead and decided a hybrid was in order.  Of course the
mutant that emerge "Warped In Space" had to be killed immediately.
I would suggest to everyone within hear shot to look up Red Dwarf for realy sf
comedy.

--- FMail 0.98
 * Origin: Deep Thought: RedDwarf,ST,SF, FREE MEAT!  916-452-9501 (1:203/42)

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 Msg  : 290 of 469
 From : Charles Daniels                     1:203/42        .òp 30 .þë 96 18:45
 To   : Patrick Duda
 Subj : Warped In Space
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

>FS> Did anyone watch the show Warped In Space on the Sci-Fi Channel last
>FS> week?  Definately warped!  Only problem is, it was neither very funny
>FS> nor very interesting.

> Yeah. It was funny in a lot ofparts, but the idea for the show, the
> timing, the cast, and generally everyhting was a big turn off for
> me.

The only casting that annoyed me was the blond actress.  The rest of the cast
seemed okay.  A lot of funny jokes were covered up by the fast camera angles,
sounds, and other junk:

"Gethnor has chosen the 'Louieville Slugger' an ancient weapon of unknown
origin!"

And:

"How long have I been out???"
"I'm Tiberius, Chad's son."

Which are okay in context.

Most of premise seemed a mix between Red Dwarf and Beavis & Butthead.
Red Dwarf is an excellent show however and I would suggest this to
anyone looking for GOOD sf comedy.

--- FMail 0.98
 * Origin: Deep Thought: RedDwarf,ST,SF, FREE MEAT!  916-452-9501 (1:203/42)

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 Msg  : 291 of 469
 From : Steven Ross                         1:243/45        .cê 28 .þë 96 22:56
 To   : David Johnston
 Subj : By Force Of Arms
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 On 07-27-96 David Johnston wrote to Steven Ross...

  They felt state's rights should take presidence over federal law.

DJ> And which federal laws were in dispute?

        Take your pick. Slavery laws were one of the issues, also trade,
taxation, the right to form state militias and wither or not a federal law
takes presidence over a state law, when the two are in dispute. During the
Civil War the Union government wouldn't even mention slavery as having
anything to do with the war until after Gettysburg. As far as Lincoln and
Davis were conserned, the war was being fought over state's rights.

... OFFLINE 1.41 * ERROR - [A]bort, [F]ail, [T]oss the computer.

--- Maximus 2.01wb
 * Origin: Pandora's Box, Ottawa, Ont. 613-829-1209 (1:243/45)

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 Msg  : 292 of 469
 From : Todd Sullivan                       1:202/720.3     .îí 29 .þë 96 17:44
 To   : Bob Klahn
 Subj : BY FORCE OF ARMS
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Reports from the Interior indicate that Bob Klahn leaked the following to
Nicolai Shapero, re: BY FORCE OF ARMS

 DJ>>> <sigh>  And WHY did the southern states want to leave?
 NS>> Just economics, really.
 BK>  Yeah, abolishing slavery would have been very expensive.

Dunno about that.  According to Heinlein (in "Time Enough For Love"), a slave
economy can't compete with any other economy.  IIRC, he mentioned the lack of
initiative amongst the owners being the chief reason.

Todd Sullivan

... "Politics, like religion, hold up the torches of martyrdom to
     the reformers of error." --Thomas Jefferson

-*- ASTG 1.9

--- Spot 1.3a Unregistered
 * Origin: Todd's Spot in the Continuum (1:202/720.3)

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 Msg  : 293 of 469
 From : Todd Sullivan                       1:202/720.3     .îí 29 .þë 96 17:47
 To   : Don Bach
 Subj : By Force OF Arms
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Reports from the Interior indicate that Don Bach leaked the following to Nicolai
Shapero, re: By Force OF Arms

 DB> As far as the "Police Actions", we can't really call it a war unless
 DB> Congress declares war, can we?

You can call it what you like, but the result is the same:  Death, destruction
and disruption of all nations involved, to some degree.

You can call them police actions, but I'm sure many Vietnamese and Korean
immigrants wouldn't agree with it.

Todd Sullivan

... The Big Bang was an orgasm of Divine Joy.

-*- ASTG 1.9

--- Spot 1.3a Unregistered
 * Origin: Todd's Spot in the Continuum (1:202/720.3)

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 Msg  : 294 of 469
 From : David Johnston                      1:342/14        .pä 31 .þë 96 01:09
 To   : Roger Fingas
 Subj : Space: Above And Beyond F
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
-> Are there any fans of that show here?

Sure.  Pity it died.

--- PCBoard (R) v15.21/100
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 Msg  : 295 of 469
 From : David Johnston                      1:342/14        .pä 31 .þë 96 01:12
 To   : Frank Swarbrick
 Subj : Dune Movie
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
-> But I know that's been said before.  Anyway, wasn't it directed by
-> David Lynch?  The version I saw said "Directed by Alan Smithee," or

Alan Smithee is a pseudonym adopted by directors and writers who feel
that they are justified in disavowing participation in the work,
generally because it is bad and they feel it's because someone else
messed with their work.  Of course in Hollywood someone else ALWAYS
messes with your work.

--- PCBoard (R) v15.21/100
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 Msg  : 296 of 469
 From : David Johnston                      1:342/14        .pä 31 .þë 96 01:16
 To   : Jeff Hancock
 Subj : Gundam 0083
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
-> It starts out with the conclusion of a space battle, which doesn't go
-> into details, but the retreat of one side resulted in a truce which
-> now, apparently has been broken.  The two relative sides appear to be
-> the Federation (of what?), which is of those loyal to Earth, and the
-> Zions, who are not fond of Earth.  I would guess this is a case of
-> space or planet colonies breaking ties with the mother planet.

The Federation of Earth nations.

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 Msg  : 297 of 469
 From : David Johnston                      1:342/14        .pä 31 .þë 96 01:20
 To   : Bob Klahn
 Subj : By Force Of Arms
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
-> BK>> I don't know of any examples of two democracies going to war
-> BK>>against each BK>> other.
-> NS> US and Great Britain.  The War of 1812.
-> Wasn't the King still holding power then, rather than the figurehead
-> the soveriegn is today. Wasn't it a real monarchy rather than a
-> titular one?

Iffy.  But then again, when one takes slaves and women into account, the
U.S. wasn't much of a democracy either.

--- PCBoard (R) v15.21/100
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 Msg  : 298 of 469
 From : Nicolai Shapero                     1:102/524       .òp 30 .þë 96 06:26
 To   : Roger Fingas
 Subj : Space: Above and Beyond fans?
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Jul 28 14:08>, Roger Fingas (1:163/215) wrote to All:

 RF>Are there any fans of that show here?

Yes.  Unfortunately, the show went the way of all things mortal ($2 million per
episode, coupled with low ratings, did not help it in the least...)

-- Nicolai Shapero, the Mad Russian Sysop of StormGate Aerie

--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

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 Msg  : 299 of 469
 From : Kay Shapero                         1:102/524       .òp 30 .þë 96 09:25
 To   : Mark Jones
 Subj : B5 RENEWED
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Jul 24 18:42>, Mark Jones (1:105/302.47) wrote to Michael Harper:

 MJ>Some of it is intentional.  I don't think any moron in Hollywood
 MJ>*really* believes that sound travels in a vacuum--but they insist
 MJ>on sound effects because they believe the audience wants it (and
 MJ>they may be right, in some cases).

Dramatic background music doesn't exist in space either... I consider that stuff
just part of the music track.

--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 300 of 469
 From : Frank Swarbrick                     1:104/825       .îí 29 .þë 96 20:22
 To   : Mark Jones
 Subj : Alien Nation
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12  92-0022
On 07-26-96  23:26, shipwrecked and comatose, Mark Jones said:

 MJ> On (23 Jul 96) Frank Swarbrick wrote to All...

 FS> Does anyone know if any more Alien Nation movies are going to be made?
 FS> I've been watching the series on the Sci-Fi Channel recently, and I
 FS> just finished watching the repeat of "Body And Soul" a few minutes
 FS> ago.  It is a *really* good show!

 MJ> It was pretty good, but I just kept laughing whenever the subplot
 MJ> of Sikes and Cathy's getting together was mentioned.  See...here's the
 MJ> problem.
 MJ> Newcomers react to salt water like it's battery acid.  Dunk a
 MJ> newcomer in the ocean and he's a deader.  I find that incredibly silly
 MJ> (given how similar they are to us, that they are so vulnerable to salt
 MJ> water makes no sense), but that's "reality" in the Alien Nation
 MJ> universe.  Okay.
 MJ> Unless Sikes and Cathy are going to "do it" in a meat locker, or
 MJ> somebody wears a full-body condom, Cathy is going to suffer serious
 MJ> skin irritation problems.  Hot, sweaty sex = sweat = salt water =
 MJ> major league discomfort for Cathy.
 MJ> Not to mention sour-milk-breath on Cathy's part, if they've been
 MJ> drinking.  (And she might find the smell of alcohol equally
 MJ> repulsive.)
 MJ> Not surprising that there isn't more human/newcomer hanky-panky.

Heh heh, that's pretty funny.  I never thought of the salt-water thing
in that context.  But, then, it seems the writers/producers didn't
either!  :-)

Anyway, any human/alien relationships like that seems quite unlikely
no matter what, but I guess we'll have to wait to meet some real
aliens to say for sure...

        Frank

... "The universe is a spheroid region 705 meters in diameter."
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12
 * Origin: The Bailey Information Exchange BBS, 28.8k v.fc  (1:104/825.0)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 301 of 469
 From : John Aldrich                        1:362/669       .òp 30 .þë 96 18:55
 To   : All
 Subj : Xena
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Hello All!
SPOILER ALERT****
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In next week's Xena, Warrior Princess, Gabrielle dies..... anyone care to
discuss this?
Actually, what happens is she's on a mission of mercy from a healer's temple
where Xena is showing the priests how to REALLY heal (including tracheostomy for
someone with a crushed windpipe and sewing up battle wounds <G>) She gets
critically wounded and stops breathing after she's brought in and placed on one
of the healing tables where Xena goes to work on her. Gabrielle stops breathing
and Xena invents CPR and teaches it to --- Hyppocrates of all people (for those
of you who don't make the connection, lemme put it this way: Doctors have to
take a Hyppocratic Oath when they get their license to practice medicine. NOW do
you get it? <G>)
Don't worry, Gabrielle will be back the following week...but this next episode
is probably the last NEW episode for some time...
        John
 {dungeon@dngnbbs.com}

... HoloDoc IDIC: Infinite Devotion for Inhospitible Care
--- GoldED/386 2.50+ 91LM1
 * Origin: The Dungeon BBS 28.8/V.34 24-hours 423/875-4137 (1:362/669)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 302 of 469
 From : Bob Klahn                           1:234/2         .òp 30 .þë 96 21:02
 To   : Don Bach
 Subj : BY FORCE OF ARMS
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 BK>>  One of the major reasons for war, perhaps the major reason, is that a
 BK>>  dictatorship must have an enemy to survive. Since a
 BK>> dictatorship must have
 BK>>  an enemy, then sometimes the enemies must go to war.

 DB> Hmmm.  I hadn't thought of that angle.  There are many dictatorships in
 DB> the world who are not at war.  About the only one I can think of which
 DB> is stable is Castro in Cuba and we are an enemy for him, possibly
 DB> preventing the need for him to wage war.

 Exactly the normal purpose of the enemy. The actual wars only happen every
 so often just because somebody pushes it too far.

 BK>>  I don't know of any examples of two democracies going to war against
 BK>> each
 BK>>  other.

 DB> I can think of two:  The War of 1812 (England has been a democracy

 Somebody else suggested that, and I asked if England was much of a democracy
 then. Afterwards I remembered that my wife's BA is in history, her major was
 European history. so I asked her. She said in the 1820s-30s they were just
 getting votes to men, lest wise real democracy. My daughter suggested they
 hadn't really made that many strides since the revolution by then, so just
 ask a few of the colonists. I would say that was the period of transition,
 where they were a proto-democracy at best.

 The Magna Carta did not establish any sort of Democracy, just secured the
 rights of the nobility.

 DB> since the Magna Carta) and the War of Northern Aggression.

 I asked a black woman if she could suggest any example of two democracies
 going to war. She also suggested the Civil War. (you know, the war to end
 slavery.)

 I asked her, "Would you call the confederacy a democracy?"

 Her answer, " I guess not."

 BK>> Northern Aggression, the

 BK>>  Is that last anything like the 'War to Preserve Slavery'?

 DB> It was much more, although the slavery issue was the "Straw that Broke
 DB> the Camel's Back".  Only a very small percentage of citizens of the
 DB> Confederacy owned slaves.  The southern states had formed their own


  From the constitution of the CSA.
 **********************************************************************
     (4) No bill of attainder, ex post facto law, or law denying
 or impairing the right of property in negro slaves shall be
 passed.

 States; and shall have the right of transit and sojourn in any
 State of this Confederacy, with their slaves and other property;
 and the right of property in said slaves shall not be thereby
 impaired.

     (3) No slave or other person held to service or labor in any
 State or Territory of the Confederate States, under the laws
 thereof, escaping or lawfully carried into another, shall, in
 consequence of any law or regulation therein, be discharged from
 such service or labor; but shall be delivered up on claim of the
 party to whom such slave belongs,. or to whom such service or
 labor may be due.

 it may by law provide, to form States to be admitted into the
 Confederacy. In all such territory the institution of negro
 slavery, as it now exists in the Confederate States, shall be
 recognized and  protected be Congress and by the Territorial
 government; and the inhabitants of the several Confederate
 States and Territories shall have the right to take to such
 Territory any slaves lawfully held by them in any of the States
 or Territories of the Confederate States.

 *************************************************************************

 Quite a bit of wordage for such a minor point, don't you think?

 DB> democracy with an elected government.

  There are degrees of democracy. The Soviet Union was a democracy with an
 elected government. I wouldn't consider it a "real" democracy, nor would I
 consider the Confederacy, or any slave state, a Democracy.

 BK>> ... Race is an idea whose time has passed. <New People Magazine>

 DB> "We don't do race anymore" - Mississippi Governor Kirk Fordice

 DB> As we expand outward into the universe, I expect wars and racism to
 DB> continually be problems.  ST:TOS broke human racial barriers, but there
 DB> were still wars between humans and alien races (so much for utopia!).
 DB> Star Wars seems to break all racial barriers, but shows a war between
 DB> good and evil dictatorships (aren't the rebel forces governed by a
 DB> monarchy?).  B5 shows a lot of wars and conflicts between alien races.

 I would be willing to bet it will be a long time before we find an alien
 race, if ever. If we do there is a good chance that we will be so
 different that we will have nothing to fight over. The real nasty wars
 don't happen that much between those who are really different, but between
 those who are close.

  Anyway, utopia may be a nice place to live, but what kinda ratings would
 it get?

BOB KLAHN   bob.klahn@toltbbs.com

... If a tree fell on a florist, would he make a sound?
 * Silver Xpress V4.3P RB10275

--- FLAME v1.1
 * Origin: Telnet toltbbs.com or call 313-854-6001, Boardwatch #55 (1:234/2)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 303 of 469
 From : Bob Klahn                           1:234/2         .òp 30 .þë 96 21:02
 To   : Frank Glover
 Subj : CANCELLED
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 FG>    Yes, that also used a space warping `teleportation' technique over
 FG> interstellar distances. (The inventor, however, first thought he'd
 FG> connected to

 FG> was used by Outward Bound-like groups for survival training, but the
 FG> operation

 FG>    (Note that it's been about 25 years since I read it, though...)

 Same here. Don't you just envy these kids finding them for the first time?

BOB KLAHN   bob.klahn@toltbbs.com

... Nature always sides with the hidden flaw.
 * Silver Xpress V4.3P RB10275

--- FLAME v1.1
 * Origin: Telnet toltbbs.com or call 313-854-6001, Boardwatch #55 (1:234/2)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 304 of 469
 From : Bob Klahn                           1:234/2         .òp 30 .þë 96 21:02
 To   : Todd Sullivan
 Subj : BY FORCE OF ARMS
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 TS> Reports from the Interior indicate that Bob Klahn leaked the following
 TS> to Don Bach, re: BY FORCE OF ARMS


 BK>>  I don't know of any examples of two democracies going to war against
 BK>> each  other.

 TS> If you care to stretch the term of democracy, Athens and Sparta would
 TS> qualify.

 Even Athens is a bit of a stretch, Sparta doesn't even begin to qualify by
 my reconing. By the time of those wars Athens had deteriorated much from
 it's previous state.

 DB>>> The territorial disputes in recent U.S. history:  The War of 1812, many
 DB>>> wars with American Indian Nations, the War of Northern Aggression, the

 BK>>  Is that last anything like the 'War to Preserve Slavery'?

 TS> Hey, sharpen your sarcasm a bit; you can get deeper cuts... <G>

 It was gentle sarcasm.

BOB KLAHN   bob.klahn@toltbbs.com

... Here's to a long plague or a bloody war.... British Army toast
 * Silver Xpress V4.3P RB10275

--- FLAME v1.1
 * Origin: Telnet toltbbs.com or call 313-854-6001, Boardwatch #55 (1:234/2)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 305 of 469
 From : Bob Klahn                           1:234/2         .òp 30 .þë 96 21:02
 To   : Mark Jones
 Subj : BY FORCE OF ARMS
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 MJ> On (25 Jul 96) Bob Klahn wrote to Don Bach...

 DB>> The territorial disputes in recent U.S. history: The War of 1812,
 DB>> many wars with American Indian Nations, the War of Northern
 DB>> Aggression, the
 BK>>
 BK>>  Is that last anything like the 'War to Preserve Slavery'?

 MJ>    Not at all.  In fact, it is entirely *unlike* that.

 Then you must mean the "War to End Slavery."

  *******************************************************************


     (4) No bill of attainder, ex post facto law, or law denying
 or impairing the right of property in negro slaves shall be
 passed.
 ...
 States; and shall have the right of transit and sojourn in any
 State of this Confederacy, with their slaves and other property;
 and the right of property in said slaves shall not be thereby
 impaired.

     (3) No slave or other person held to service or labor in any
 State or Territory of the Confederate States, under the laws
 thereof, escaping or lawfully carried into another, shall, in
 consequence of any law or regulation therein, be discharged from
 such service or labor; but shall be delivered up on claim of the
 party to whom such slave belongs,. or to whom such service or
 labor may be due.
 ...
 it may by law provide, to form States to be admitted into the
 Confederacy. In all such territory the institution of negro
 slavery, as it now exists in the Confederate States, shall be
 recognized and  protected be Congress and by the Territorial
 government; and the inhabitants of the several Confederate
 States and Territories shall have the right to take to such
 Territory any slaves lawfully held by them in any of the States
 or Territories of the Confederate States.
  *******************************************************************

  Lot of words for something of little importance.

BOB KLAHN   bob.klahn@toltbbs.com

... Black Adder, Black Adder, You horrid little man....
 * Silver Xpress V4.3P RB10275

--- FLAME v1.1
 * Origin: Telnet toltbbs.com or call 313-854-6001, Boardwatch #55 (1:234/2)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 306 of 469
 From : Bob Klahn                           1:234/2         .òp 30 .þë 96 21:02
 To   : Nicolai Shapero
 Subj : BY FORCE OF ARMS
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 NS> On <Jul 27 17:33>, Bob Klahn (1:234/2) wrote to Nicolai Shapero:

 DJ>>><sigh>  And WHY did the southern states want to leave?
 NS>> Just economics, really.
 BK>> Yeah, abolishing slavery would have been very expensive.

 NS> It had nothing directly to do with abolishing slavery; that didn't
 NS> become an issue until well after the war started.  I'd suggest that you
 NS> pick up a decent history book and read up on the Civil War.

 From the constitution of the CSA.
 *******************************************************************


     (4) No bill of attainder, ex post facto law, or law denying
 or impairing the right of property in negro slaves shall be
 passed.

 States; and shall have the right of transit and sojourn in any
 State of this Confederacy, with their slaves and other property;
 and the right of property in said slaves shall not be thereby
 impaired.

     (3) No slave or other person held to service or labor in any
 State or Territory of the Confederate States, under the laws
 thereof, escaping or lawfully carried into another, shall, in
 consequence of any law or regulation therein, be discharged from
 such service or labor; but shall be delivered up on claim of the
 party to whom such slave belongs,. or to whom such service or
 labor may be due.

 it may by law provide, to form States to be admitted into the
 Confederacy. In all such territory the institution of negro
 slavery, as it now exists in the Confederate States, shall be
 recognized and  protected be Congress and by the Territorial
 government; and the inhabitants of the several Confederate
 States and Territories shall have the right to take to such
 Territory any slaves lawfully held by them in any of the States
 or Territories of the Confederate States.
 *******************************************************************

BOB KLAHN   bob.klahn@toltbbs.com

... Ride with Rush. Airbags make driving safer.
 * Silver Xpress V4.3P RB10275

--- FLAME v1.1
 * Origin: Telnet toltbbs.com or call 313-854-6001, Boardwatch #55 (1:234/2)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 307 of 469
 From : Patrick Duda                        1:218/801       .pä 31 .þë 96 03:17
 To   : Charles Daniels
 Subj : Warped In Space
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12  91-0018

-> The only casting that annoyed me was the blond actress.  The rest of
-> the cast seemed okay.  A lot of funny jokes were covered up by the
-> fast camera

  I just didn't like it. Perhaps i'm more a fan of the clean-cut
spacecraft idea (star trek). From the moment I saw the promo for it, I
kept thinking it was a lame re-mix of red dwarf and other comedies. I
was right. For a once in a while special, I don't think i'd mind
watching it (if in a good time slot) but otherwise it sucks.
  But, the one thing I did enjoy were the fast one-liner type jokes.

-> "Gethnor has chosen the 'Louieville Slugger' an ancient weapon of
-> unknown origin!"

 I loved that bit. If nothing else the show is great for that first time
when the guy is watching spaceTV. Too bad it gets bogged down in lame
settings and poor directing/cinematography.

--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12
 * Origin: Star Tech Diamond Bar, CA 909-396-4227 714-257-1175  (1:218/801.0)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 308 of 469
 From : Patrick Duda                        1:218/801       .pä 31 .þë 96 03:17
 To   : Roger Fingas
 Subj : Space: Above and Beyond f
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12  91-0018

>Are there any fans of that show here?

  Hmmm. I really kinda liked that show. Well, really I didn't, but I think
  it was the best first step toward the show i'd like to see.

  I didn't like how SAAB had it's valuable pilots playing in the dirt half
  the time, and how it seemed a lot of times to just kinda skim over the
  war. But, I loved the format, that is, good CGI ships with a galactic
  war thing, without the dumb 'federation' kinda deal going on. One on One!

    What I very most wish to see, though, is Star Trek: Bloodlines. That is,
    a show of my own design. Essentially it is a weekly hour of
    SPACE COMBAT! The federation and the klingon empire (with occasional
    interrupts from the romulan-dominion alliance) go at it. It's set about
    20 years in the future from ST:Voyajerk, and it centers on the crews
    of 4 starships (the bridge crew, anyway), who range from lowly escort
    ships to the crew of the flagship. It shows the terrible costs of war
    and i'm sure somewhere there'll be some klingon defectors to show the
    humans true 'honor'. After about 2 seasons the feds and the 'gons figure
    out the romulans have a pact with the dominion, and are playing them
    against each other to make for easy vicotry, and then, the would-be
    mortal enemies join together to fight against an even larger enemy.
      About 25% of each show will be cool CGI shots and lotsa hull breaches
      and other things.
   Barring that show (haven't been to paramount lately :( i'd also like to
   see my combat-oriented voyajerk conclusion/pilot!

   Any other space battle fans out there? (waitin to see some alien bugs
   get fried in the new STTNG movie!)

---
 * MikeMayl v1.0 * I'm sorry, were the voices in my head bothering you?

--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12
 * Origin: Star Tech Diamond Bar, CA 909-396-4227 714-257-1175  (1:218/801.0)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 309 of 469
 From : Michael Lynn                        1:393/7         .pä 31 .þë 96 00:10
 To   : Roger Fingas
 Subj : Re: Space: Above and Beyond fans?
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
        I am primarily a Babylon 5 fan but start to like Space Above and Beyond,
though I have to admit alot of the episodes where hit and miss with me, it was
starting to get some momentum.  Oh yeah, I loved the Wing Commander games and
the Space Above and Beyond captured some of that atmosphere very well.
--- CNet/3
 * Origin: The Bard's Tavern Denton, TX (817)243-5110 USR 28.8   (1:393/7)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 310 of 469
 From : Pavel Viaznikov                     2:5020/185.9    .òp 30 .þë 96 21:06
 To   : All
 Subj : Independence Day (Belated)
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Hi there, All!

Sorry for writing on it so long after it was discussed here - but the ID just
appeared in our market, stolen, of course.

It was fun. It used all them cliches like in the Naked Gun or Top Secret, only
it was dead serious. And the bugs there... just for an example, a saucer of the
Bad Guys was big, but could it be _that_ big? - it takes a F15 fighter about
five minutes to get from the ridge to the center... to that supergun (right out
of the Star Wars) which is preheated for a long time before it shoots...
And it is all predictable. My sister watched it, telling what is about to
happen, without a single mistake... It was done with good skill but with no
imagination at all. We then tried to count the movies which served as sources
for the episodes, counted about one dosen and dropped it. Everything is
"borrowed"...

BTW, why do the Americans enjoy stories about the USA being destroyed or
mutilated this way or that (re. the Sliders, for example)?..

                                           W/b.rgrds, Pavel

-           -         -        -       -     -    -   -  - - --* =>-

PS. Pleese excquse possibel misspelles

---
 * Origin:   To beer or not to beer? (C) Shakesbeer   (2:5020/185.9)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 311 of 469
 From : Roy LeBlanc                         1:396/17.40     .pä 31 .þë 96 18:57
 To   : John Aldrich
 Subj : Xena
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On (30 Jul 96) John Aldrich wrote to All...

 JA> Hello All!
 JA> SPOILER ALERT****
 JA> *
 JA> *
 JA> *
 JA> *
 JA> *
 JA> *
 JA> *
 JA> *
 JA> *
 JA> *
 JA> *
 JA> *
 JA> *
 JA> *
 JA> *
 JA> *
 JA> *
 JA> *
 JA> *
 JA> *
 JA> *
 JA> *
 JA> *
 JA> *
 JA> --- Hyppocrates of all people (for those of you who don't make the
 JA> connection, lemme put it this way: Doctors have to take a Hyppocratic Oath
 JA> when they get their license to practice medicine. NOW do you get it? <G>)

Check again.  I believe that the Hyppocratic Oath forbids abortion and
physician assisted suicide.  Many Med Schools no longer make it part of
the graduation ceremony or use an abbreviated version.

-Roy
... "Only users lose drugs"

--- PPoint 1.92
 * Origin: Roy's Point of Information (1:396/17.40)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 312 of 469
 From : Irv Koch                            1:109/629       .pä 31 .þë 96 21:05
 To   : All
 Subj : Independent Echo Block
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
People who read this echo may be interested in the following.

The following echos move on zone 1 (and sometimes 3) numbers, are "owned"
by the moderator noted, and may be redistributed without restriction (but
it's nice if you let me know where you're shipping them).  Any which get
backboned, drop off "the block."  You can pick them up any or all from me, at
the node number in the origin line.  I ask that you poll at least weekly but
usually ship them to you on my dimes, if I notice over 7 days buildup.

DUNE (Laurence Garvin) ... Frank Herbert, the author and his works and
ideas as well, as the movie.

HEINLEIN (Irv Koch) ... Robert Heinlein, the author, his works & ideas.

MOORCOCK (Steve Quarella) ... Michael Moorcock, the author, his works and
ideas; includes material re the band HAWKWIND.

SF-LIT (Carlos Benitz) ... strictly limited to sf&f written literature.

FIAWOL (Dean Sweatman a.k.a. Keith Allard) ... sf&f fandom & fen of the
ancient and Southern varieties.

MEDIEVAL (Dave Aronson a.k.a. Emporer Simon) ... general medieval discussion,
not just the SCA or any other group.

I_WITCHES (Barbara Leader a.k.a. Earth Mater) ... independent witches (the
real variety) and their friends ... they chat.

These echos are also piggybacked on GODnet, Masquenet, and SciFiNet (which
is switching to the zone 102 variety as zone 24 shuts down).

Netmail me if interested.

--- Maximus 2.02
 * Origin: Ice Fire 703-354-4176 (1:109/629)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 313 of 469
 From : Brion Lienhart                      1:213/700.2     .åò 01 .âã 96 13:01
 To   : Frank Glover
 Subj : Re: CANCELLED
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On Sun Jul 28, Frank Glover said to Bob Klahn:

BK>   FG>    Sounds like `Tunnel in the Sky.'
BK>
BK>   That does sound right. I'm lousy on names and titles, but pretty
BK>  good on
BK>   plots.
 -FG>
 -FG>   Yes, that also used a space warping `teleportation' technique over
 -FG>interstellar distances. (The inventor, however, first thought he'd
 -FG>connected to another world with jungle-like vegatation...passed
 -FG>through, only to find himself in the garden of an Earthly tropical
 -FG>hotel...!) As I recall, the system was used by Outward Bound-like
 -FG>groups for survival training, but the operation of the system required

IIRC, the inventor was trying to invent a time-travel machine, and thought he'd
opened a portal back to the dinosaur ages.



--- QM v1.31
 * Origin: Ministry of Peace - Carson City, NV (1:213/700.2)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 314 of 469
 From : Jeff Hancock                        1:3600/7        .pä 31 .þë 96 22:18
 To   : All
 Subj : Gundam 0083 again
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Kusou!  Forgot a few things...

The Gundam suits have a rather impractical launch method from the
Albion.  It appears based on an aircraft carrier's launch catapult, with
the suits lifted on elevators to the surface, then standing on a sliding
platform that launches them off a folding "deck".  The problem, the way
I see it, is that since all the forward motion is far below the center
of gravity, the end result should be a heels-over-head tumble
reminiscent of Wile E Coyote's first experience with rocket skates.  The
suits have rocket booster packs, but they don't fire until after leaving
the catapult.  Whether in zero-gravity or in atmosphere, it looks cool
but seems completely unreal.

Another odd note is that some of the suits seem to have the capability
to "glide" literally just over the ground, as if on hovercraft but with
precision and high velocity.  Apparently they have some form of thruster
built into the feet to provide this ground-effect flight, but it seems
like it would be highly unstable and all but the most expert of pilots
would quickly take a tumble.  Perhaps computer-controlled thrust
vectoring and internal gyros manage to compensate.

That's about it... I could go over the series and undoubtedly come up
with more oddities, but that's okay, I'd rather see and compare with
someone else's impression of the series.  And, if anyone out there knows
how it turns out, please don't spoil it for me.
-=-
 * Crazy-J * "On behalf of the moon, have a jelly baby!" - Sailor Who

--- SLMAIL v3.5C  (#1540)
 * Origin: Robotech  -=-Fansubbed anime available upon request-=- (1:3600/7)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 315 of 469
 From : Jeff Hancock                        1:3600/7        .pä 31 .þë 96 22:56
 To   : Darre Luallen
 Subj : Japanese SF
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

DL> LR> Beisdes GitS I could recomend Gall Force ifthe dubbed version is
DL> JH> That one seems to be popular.  Must be the babes. ;)
DL> Pro'ly.

Anime does tend to have a profusion of them, but usually there are at
least some supporting male characters if it's not based on 'em.  You'd
tend to think that men might be a little paranoid about a future where
there weren't any, but apparently they don't worry about that.

DL> JH> What I'm curious about though, is has anyone ever produced any
DL> JH>music videos or parodies of other SF series like Trek or Star

DL> Several examples come to mind.  One such parady had Captain Harlock
DL>going against the Falcon and Deathstar.  Another used the tapes from
DL>the kiddie books and action figures.  This one wasn't so much a

I've heard of those, but haven't seen any traders offer them.

DL>make music videos out of SF shows.  My favorite was the one to
DL>Kansas' "Fight Fire with Fire" using Kirk and Khan scenes from STII

Now that I'd like to see.

DL> JH> The one I want to see is the fan parody "Dirty Pair Does
DL> JH>Dishes"... <g>

DL> Does this exist in reality or just as an extension of your own
DL>warped imagination?

I don't *know* that it exists, but a tape trader is *offering* something
by that name. ;)  Although I'm not entirely happy with the guy's
policies/pricing, I'll probably end up requesting it unless I see it
somewhere else first.

I also found someone who has a great deal of fanmade anime music videos,
although a lot of them are 4th-5th generation.  Nevertheless I'd like to
see what they did with Weird Al's "Slime Creatures from Outer Space".

-=-
 * Crazy-J * "Ya da!  Ami-chan et-chi-i!!" - Aino Minako

--- SLMAIL v3.5C  (#1540)
 * Origin: Robotech  -=-Fansubbed anime available upon request-=- (1:3600/7)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 316 of 469
 From : Jeff Hancock                        1:3600/7        .pä 31 .þë 96 23:04
 To   : Darre Luallen
 Subj : Japanese SF
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

DL> LR> Project A-ko is one long in joke for anime fhans. Among the ones
DL> The version I heard is that "ko" is Japanese for girl.  Therefore,
DL>the stars were "A girl", "B girl" and "C girl".

Oh, right, I had forgotten about that.  Actually, I think it's "child",
although not generally meant in a derogatory way.  Calling someone
"John-ko" would be the equivalent of "Master John", as opposed to
"John-san" as "Mr. John".

And, there's at least one pun there, as "Aiko" is a legitimate Japanese
name, which sounds like "A-ko"; not to mention the whole "plot outline"
feel of it, "Girl A fights with B over C".

I've been kind of wondering what Aino Minako's (from Sailor Moon) name
breaks down to.  There are at least three different kanji symbols which
convert to "Ai", but the one I know of is probably the one used here,
which means "love".  I think.  "no" would be the possessive "of", or
something like that.  Also, although no one's told me this, I think
"Mina" means "everyone" ... at least in the SMR movie, that's what Usagi
says and it's subtitled that way.  But that comes out to "Love's
Everyone-Child", which doesn't sound right.  Everyone's love-child?
Love child of everyone?  Everyone's child of love?

-=-
 * Crazy-J * --Final scores: Area 88, Golgo 13, Ranma 1/2, Gundam 0083

--- SLMAIL v3.5C  (#1540)
 * Origin: Robotech  -=-Fansubbed anime available upon request-=- (1:3600/7)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 317 of 469
 From : Frank Glover                        1:2613/477      .åò 01 .âã 96 22:30
 To   : Pavel Viaznikov
 Subj : Re: Independence Day (Belated)
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

PV>  BTW, why do the Americans enjoy stories about the USA being destroyed
PV>  or mutilated this way or that (re. the Sliders, for example)?..

   Don't know, but considering how many times Tokyo has been leveled in all
those monster movies, the Japanese seem pretty masochistic, too.

   Seriously, it's supposed to say something positive about our ability to
triumph over adversity,and the like. One can't relate to that, if some other
country's being flattened instead. That might be what the Japanese think,
too....

   Frank


--- QuickBBS 2.81 GoldBase (Zeta-2.0)
 * Origin: The Matrix Data Bank BBS, Rochester, Ny (1:2613/477)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 318 of 469
 From : Roger Fingas                        1:163/215       .pä 31 .þë 96 20:34
 To   : Frank Glover
 Subj : Re: Space: Above and Beyond
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Thanks for the welcome.  You know, I love that show.  In my opinion, it's one of
the best shows on TV (right up there with ER and the X-Files!).  Unfortunately
(and unbelievably), Fox isn't producing another season!  Instead, we get
"Millenium" on Friday, and X-Files and the Simpsons on Sunday.  Someone should
organize a petition to Fox.  I'd be the first to sign.

--- Maximus 3.01
 * Origin: BitByters BBS, Rockland ON, Can. (613)446-7773 v34, (1:163/215)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 319 of 469
 From : GERRY NORMANDEAU                    1:243/95        .pä 31 .þë 96 19:57
 To   : BOB KLAHN
 Subj : BY FORCE OF ARMS
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Standing at the gallows pole Bob Klahn spat a curse on Nicolai Shapero, accusin
 him of BY FORCE OF ARMS!

 NS> On <Jul 25 21:05>, Bob Klahn (1:234/2) wrote to Don Bach:

 BK>> I don't know of any examples of two democracies going to war
 BK>>against each
 BK>> other.

 NS> US and Great Britain.  The War of 1812.

 BK> Wasn't the King still holding power then, rather than the figurehead
 BK> the soveriegn is today. Wasn't it a real monarchy rather than a
 BK> titular one?

At this time the King was still the political leader, but this also was the
begining of the decline of the power of the monarchy to the Parlament. As
our great wrighter Piere Berton wrote, "The war of 1812 is mainly remembered
where the stupidity of one side was perfectly balanced by the ineptitude
of the other."

________________________________________________________________________
|  _______    |                   GERRY NORMANDEAU                     |
|  []    |    |   cn754@freenet.carleton.ca / Vanier, Ontario, CANADA  |
|  []    O    |~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~|
|  []   /|\   |Royal Hangman To His Majesty King Bruno The Questionable|
|  []   / \   |~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~|
|  []         |        "ALWAYS ROOM FOR ONE MORE, ME'LORD!"            |
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
... "Walking into the jaws of Death so's you can steal His gold teeth..."

___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20
--- Platinum Xpress/Wildcat! v1.2j
 * Origin: The OFFSPRING BBS! Orleans, Ontario CANADA (613)834-8587 (1:243/95)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 320 of 469
 From : GERRY NORMANDEAU                    1:243/95        .pä 31 .þë 96 20:05
 To   : TODD SULLIVAN
 Subj : BY FORCE OF ARMS
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Standing at the gallows pole Todd Sullivan spat a curse on Bob Klahn, accusing
im of BY FORCE OF ARMS!

 TS> Reports from the Interior indicate that Bob Klahn leaked the
 TS> following to Nicolai Shapero, re: BY FORCE OF ARMS

 DJ>>> <sigh>  And WHY did the southern states want to leave?
 NS>> Just economics, really.
 BK>  Yeah, abolishing slavery would have been very expensive.

 TS> Dunno about that.  According to Heinlein (in "Time Enough For Love"),
 TS> a slave economy can't compete with any other economy.  IIRC, he
 TS> mentioned the lack of initiative amongst the owners being the chief
 TS> reason.

The Southern states were agrerian in nature. The slave market, which
catered to all of south america as well as the ststes, was making
a total profit of over one billion dollars a year. THAT to me is
a great reason to go to war.


________________________________________________________________________
|  _______    |                   GERRY NORMANDEAU                     |
|  []    |    |   cn754@freenet.carleton.ca / Vanier, Ontario, CANADA  |
|  []    O    |~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~|
|  []   /|\   |Royal Hangman To His Majesty King Bruno The Questionable|
|  []   / \   |~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~|
|  []         |        "ALWAYS ROOM FOR ONE MORE, ME'LORD!"            |
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
... "At game's end, the king and the pawn go into the same bag." - Dragon

___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20
--- Platinum Xpress/Wildcat! v1.2j
 * Origin: The OFFSPRING BBS! Orleans, Ontario CANADA (613)834-8587 (1:243/95)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 321 of 469
 From : Todd Sullivan                       1:202/720.3     .pä 31 .þë 96 21:20
 To   : Bob Klahn
 Subj : BY FORCE OF ARMS
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Reports from the Interior indicate that Bob Klahn leaked the following to
Nicolai Shapero, re: BY FORCE OF ARMS

 NS>> On <Jul 25 21:05>, Bob Klahn (1:234/2) wrote to Don Bach:

 BK>>> I don't know of any examples of two democracies going to war
 BK>>> against each
 BK>>> other.

 NS>> US and Great Britain.  The War of 1812.

 BK>  Wasn't the King still holding power then, rather than the figurehead
 BK> the soveriegn is today. Wasn't it a real monarchy rather than a titular
 BK> one?

IIRC, England became a constitutional monarchy not long after the Wars of the
Roses.

George III waan't the problem in the late 1700s/early 1800s, it was his
minister/advisor Talleyrand who put the screws to the Colonies.

Todd Sullivan

... "A paltry, insolent fellow!" --Shakespeare

-*- ASTG 1.9

--- Spot 1.3a Unregistered
 * Origin: Todd's Spot in the Continuum (1:202/720.3)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 322 of 469
 From : Todd Sullivan                       1:202/720.3     .pä 31 .þë 96 21:24
 To   : Patrick Duda
 Subj : Alien Nation
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Reports from the Interior indicate that Patrick Duda leaked the following to me,
re: Alien Nation

 >> and the series has thrown a few interesting twists and explored areas
 >> none of the movies had time for.

 PD>   you have dozens of lifetimes from which to tell stories. It would be
 PD>   nice if maybe once in a while they acutally did an entire episode in
 PD>   the past.

I can remember a few episodes and a couple of cliff-hangers that spent more time
in flashbacks than in "current" time.  All good ones.

Todd Sullivan

... "Nice underpants." --Hobbes

-*- ASTG 1.9

--- Spot 1.3a Unregistered
 * Origin: Todd's Spot in the Continuum (1:202/720.3)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 323 of 469
 From : Glenn Shaheen                       1:3600/7        .îí 29 .þë 96 21:30
 To   : Patrick Duda
 Subj : Realistic space scenes
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

PD>  Is Space:1999 on tape?

        I don't know. I've only ever seen about 10 episodes, and that
was three years ago when I lived in Canada. They played it on YTV for a
while. They may still play it.
-=-
 * OLX 2.2 * "He learned to read using alphabet soup."

--- SLMAIL v3.5C  (#1540)
 * Origin: Robotech  -=-Fansubbed anime available upon request-=- (1:3600/7)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 324 of 469
 From : Jeff Hancock                        1:3600/7        .òp 30 .þë 96 18:39
 To   : All
 Subj : Gundam 0083...
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Well, watched the last two episodes I have of Mobile Suit Gundam 0083
I have, up to 4 of a total of 13, and have further boring commentary on
that as well as a few things I forgot to cover before.


I suppose this spoiler warning is in order in case anyone plans to see
it and wants to be surprised. ;)



Ho-kay.  First, the 0083 refers to the year, and was prefaced by "U.C.".
I have no idea what this might stand for.  There is also an 0080 series
(both of these are Original Video Animations - OVAs), but the various TV
series and movies have different name variations.

There still isn't enough information to pin down "good" versus "bad".
Zion is the enemy by inference, but their motives haven't been shown
yet.  However, the implication is that the Earth forces are taught or
made to believe that the Zions are evil and inhuman, perhaps wrongly.

The intro theme, which started with the second ep, is pretty good.  It
has a build-up sequence rather like a pepped up Top Gun Anthem which
segues into something more in the Danger Zone mood, but with less raw
adrenaline kick.  Quite nice, for a two-minute sequence.  The
closing/credits theme is also well done, in English no less, and is
accompanied by a beautiful rendering of a sunrise from orbit.

I was more impressed by some of the actions taken in these later two
episodes, in general.  First off, some new pilots arrive and finally
someone mentions that it seemed too easy for the Zion agents to steal
the Gundam Unit #2.  However, their angle seemed to be that the
defending pilots were too careless in letting them escape, rather than
condemning the pathetic security which allowed the attempt in the first
place.  There is the usual rookie/veteran clash, with the usual personal
challenge to settle it, and there were actually consequences this time;
although a week in solitary confinement seems a little light for blatant
misuse of heavy weapons platforms.

Still, there seem to be no repercussions on anyone for the ease with
which the theft was accomplished.  There was a week of "dead time"
during which they could not pursue, nor could the Zions leave Earth, and
that would have allowed time for at least some form of inquiry, if not
a complete court martial.  The entire attitude seems to be that well, it
happened, let's forget about that and worry about getting it back.

Ah, they *do* have security.  ;)  It's too early to tell if they're even
halfway competent or not, due to a plot complication.

The love interest aka "boob" aka Nina Purpleton (hey, I'm not making
this up, you know) turned out to be, or was and I missed it, a civilian
on attachment to provide technical assistance and support for the new
Gundam design.  This partially explains her lack of suspicion about the
infiltrator, but even so, a tongue-lashing at least seems in order, no
matter how guilty she feels about not doing more to stop the theft.

The final episode had a search and confrontation with the Zion forces
that were sheltering the Gundam Unit #2 and helping escape Earth with
it.  This one was more satisfying, as it had open combat which, under
the circumstances, seemed to show good tactical maneuvers and a fair
amount of intelligence on both sides; not counting one particular idiot.
(Guess it's still hard to find good help in 0083).  However, I'm
somewhat confused by the choice of tactics, once they had located the
enemy base then it would seem the safer move would be to cover it, make
sure no escape was successful, and call for reinforcements rather than
go for an open assault and allow the Zions with the Gundam to escape
during the melee.

Design flaw department:  Apparently the designers of the _Albion_, the
small battleship/carrier featured prominently in this series to date,
never watched _Battlestar Galactica_, _Babylon 5_, or otherwise had any
notion to provide armored protection for a *very* exposed bridge area.
Even if any form of blast shield would be ineffective for most ordnance
of the time, anything is better than the equivalent of Plexiglass.

Interesting idea department:  The Albion has two enclosed fighter
launching bays which run nearly the length of the ship, and open only in
the front.  This results in an interesting mid-air landing procedure
where the fighter falls into formation in front of the bay, then reduces
speed to allow the carrier to "catch up" and land in that manner.  I
think there's a possibility that might be remotely feasible if the bay
opened on both ends to allow airflow throughout (although in that event
a rear landing would still seem more effective), but as it is it seems
to me that the airflow would simply be wedged aside by the relatively
motionless air within the bay.  In other words, as the fighter
approached the mouth of the bay, it would quickly run into major
turbulence and completely lose lift, making a safe landing virtually
impossible.  If it had VTOL/STOL capability, I missed it.

The Albion seemed very understrength, although I have no idea what a
normal complement for that ship would be.  It only had _one_ fighter,
and I strongly suspect the only mobile suits it had were the two
experimental Gundam units.  During conflict, it had the three pilots and
their suits that were airlifted in, two pilots and one suit reassigned
from the base, one of the experimental Gundams, and an extra pilot who
was still wounded and unfit for combat.  None of these pilots were
originally stationed on the Albion, as it was flying to the base to test
the experimental Gundams using the test pilots there.

One very odd thing was that, according to dialogue, some form of
fictional radiation particle was preventing sensor detection of the
missing Gundam and the Zion forces, so they were forced to rely on the
old Mark I eyeball.  This seems highly unlikely, as even without
whatever kind of sensor they were using, thermal or ground-mapping radar
or some other form of existing technology ought to be effective.  Ah,
the magic of fictional radiation. <g>

Personally, the whole theft operation seemed far too easy, while not
always looking easy.  I'm beginning to suspect that it may have been
intended, and that most of the people involved are merely pawns.  There
was a short but interesting conversation with a High Brass, who
_claimed_ that other search parties were looking for the Zions although
these alleged searchers were never in evidence, and this HB took great
exception to Nina's presence, decrying her as a Lunarian.  There's been
nothing to indicate so far whether whatever Lunarian civilization as may
exist is on the side of Earth, Zion, or neutral, but this presents two
likely possibilities; one, that Federation forces distrust all
offworlders (whether Luna is aligned with them or not), or two, that
this High Brass is secretly affiliated with the Zions and would view any
offworlder working with the Federation as a traitor.

So my suspicions are that, just possibly, someone knows there's a
traitor and arranged the experimental Gundam test with little defenses
and made sure the traitor knew of it, to help flush him out and/or to
help neutralize the Zion countermovement.  The nuclear weapon could
actually be some form of transmitter to give away the enemy's location
later, or it could be an actual nuclear warhead with a trigger set to
detonate once it was "safely" in the enemy stronghold, perhaps just
prior to being dissected.  However, it seems the Zions may have a plan
to use it instead...  There's no definite proof yet, but it would clear
up a lot of the oddities if it turns out to have been staged.

Anyway, I'm really starting to enjoy this series now, and will
definitely have to get the rest of it.
-=-
 * Crazy-J * Live action Starblazers?!  SHIMATTA!!  DISNEY NO BAKA!!!

--- SLMAIL v3.5C  (#1540)
 * Origin: Robotech  -=-Fansubbed anime available upon request-=- (1:3600/7)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 325 of 469
 From : Jeff Hancock                        1:3600/7        .òp 30 .þë 96 18:35
 To   : All
 Subj : Irresponsible Cap. Tailor
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Also saw the first episode of Irresponsible Captain Tailor.  No
significant spoiler warnings apply here.

I previously thought the name was "Taylor".  That's how it's pronounced,
and I think it looks better.  But, they spell it "Tailor", so, <shrug>
their character, their name.

Anyway, the hero (?) of this series is Justin Tailor, a smooth-talking
easy-going guy whose greatest ambition is the pursuit of laziness.
And ladies.  At the beginning of this, he happens to be sitting on a
curb watching this absolutely mammoth outdoor television that must be
the size of your average basketball court, when an ad for the Space
Forces comes on.  So, he goes and tries to sign up, allegedly for the
free meals, clothes, room and board (he believes, not what they said),
but more likely because a cute girl was making the recruitment pitch.
Anyway, with a bit (hah!) of flattery, he gets himself signed up to
undergo some basic suitability tests.

In the meantime, the two major powers in this part of the (galaxy?), the
"United Earth" or whatever they called it, and the Ragemon(or something)
Empire, are both contemplating war.  It seems that recently the Emperor
and Empress were both killed, leaving their teenage daughter to be
Empress, and although the details haven't been disclosed, most people
suspect the Earth forces to be responsible.  At any rate, an ambitious
military advisor uses this to goad the Empress into preparing for war,
and I won't be a bit surprised if the guy turns out to have been behind
their deaths and is just setting things up to get rid of her as well and
perform a coup, or otherwise take power.  Some of the Earth military
brass, in comparison, are encouraging war because they feel the Empire
is going to attack and would prefer to strike at them first.  Not
altogether unreasonable, considering the circumstances.

There is a touching scene with the Empress and an opponent to the
warmongering advisor afterwards, whose ship is shortly thereafter
deployed to Earth-controlled space for an unknown mission.  The
implication seems to be that it is to forestall or prevent war rather
than initiate it, however.

In the meantime, Tailor has gone through some basic trials, and is now
up to the psychological profile which is handled in a hilarious "virtual
reality" type setup.  Unfortunately, the questioning is handled by a
female-programmed Artificial Intelligence, and Tailor wastes no time in
flirting, flattering, and utterly confusing the poor electronic gal with
his silver-tongued deviltry.  Having brought her to the brink of
declaring love for him, he backs out and her feelings abruptly reverse,
as she declares him the enemy of all women and promptly self-destructs,
taking major portions of the primary defense computer offline.  This
would, of course, happen just as the Zion warship appeared on their
sensors, with completely predictable results (which aren't played out,
yet, but let us say that tensions are on a very strong foot)

With the emminent declaration of war through these unrelated incidents,
Tailor is quickly drafted, and the adventure begins. ;)

I was rather surprised by this show so far.  The descriptions I've heard
lead me to believe it was a parody/farce, but it appears to be rather an
SF dramatic storyline with strong comedy elements.  It of course remains
to be seen how much of a comedy it becomes, but there is a fair amount
of serious plot-developing and characterization going on here.  Needless
to say, if they continue in this vein I will be more than happy to watch
the entire twenty-six episode series.

There was one very curious bit of tech involved as well; the warship
deployed from a staggeringly huge carrier by being lowered internally
into a sea of some viscous red fluid.  It then merely "flew" (sailed?)
through a large opening in the carrier's hull from which the liquid
protruded in a domelike fashion, being held in place merely by the
surface tension.  None of this fluid escaped that I remember, the exit
of the vessel merely caused rippling across the surface of the dome.

I'm rather interested to know if anyone knows what substance would
behave in this manner in vacuum, with a strong enough surface tension to
allow objects to leave it but not dense enough to prevent an object from
moving relatively freely through it.  It strikes me as a rather
intriguing way to move ships in and out of a (presumably pressurized)
internal bay without the issue of decompressing an airlock or losing
atmosphere with each launch.  It's nifty, whether practical or not.

-=-
 * Crazy-J * Sleeping is not the problem. Waking up is the problem.

--- SLMAIL v3.5C  (#1540)
 * Origin: Robotech  -=-Fansubbed anime available upon request-=- (1:3600/7)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 326 of 469
 From : John Aldrich                        1:362/669       .ÿò 02 .âã 96 03:59
 To   : Roy LeBlanc
 Subj : Xena
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Hello Roy!

Wednesday July 31 1996 18:57, Roy LeBlanc wrote to John Aldrich:

 RL> Check again.  I believe that the Hyppocratic Oath forbids abortion and
 RL> physician assisted suicide.  Many Med Schools no longer make it part of
 RL> the graduation ceremony or use an abbreviated version.

Ahh...well, I was just trying to explain who he is/was in modern mythology. :)
        John
 {dungeon@dngnbbs.com}

... /2 = Half the value. Example: 1/2, PS/2, OS/2
--- GoldED/386 2.50+ 91LM1
 * Origin: The Dungeon BBS 28.8/V.34 24-hours 423/875-4137 (1:362/669)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 327 of 469
 From : Patrick Duda                        1:218/801       .ÿò 02 .âã 96 00:53
 To   : Barron Lenz
 Subj : Re: Realistic space scen
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12  91-0018

 PD> Is Space:1999 on tape?

>You can occasionally find a few episodes on sale at SUNCOAST in malls,
>right next to all the Star-Trek, and BattleStar Galactica tapes..
>It was a series that ran in '77 to '79 I think...Was pretty cool.
>My favorite charactures were Commander Keonig & Mia (My-ah).

   I might look. There isn't one local I know of. The next video i'm looking
   at though really is this  anime thing called "spaceship crusier yamato"
   or something. Sounds good, it's also another older space epic.
    Back to the basics, huh?
---
 * MikeMayl v1.0 * Everyone is Invited!

--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12
 * Origin: Star Tech Diamond Bar, CA 909-396-4227 714-257-1175  (1:218/801.0)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 328 of 469
 From : Patrick Duda                        1:218/801       .ÿò 02 .âã 96 00:53
 To   : All
 Subj : Macross 7
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12  91-0018
   I've been seeing a lot of buzz on this new Macross 7 series thing on
   the web lately. I'm SERIOUSLY interested in it.

     Is it a TV series? When did it air? Is it available on tape (any format)
      Are there any more macross spinoffs other than MC2, DYRL, MPlus,
      and the M:sentinels stuff?
---
 * MikeMayl v1.0 * Happiness is wanting what you have.

--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12
 * Origin: Star Tech Diamond Bar, CA 909-396-4227 714-257-1175  (1:218/801.0)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 329 of 469
 From : Lis Carey                           1:101/230       .òp 30 .þë 96 06:28
 To   : Jeff Hancock
 Subj : CANCELLED
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
<snip>

JH>Perhaps I should be more literal and less exaggerative then, although
JH>the smiley at least should have been a clue.  What I was trying to say
JH>was, if the Federation, or any other race, had done something similar to
JH>the Klingons; war would have been a likely result.  Even if it wasn't,
JH>one would expect the Klingons to be more hotheaded, more prone to
JH>hostile action over it, and in general take it very seriously.

Yes, hotheaded indeed, even when not in their best interests.

JH>In comparison, the Feds would not be likley to jump straight into action
JH>and make demands, but would always be open to negotiation.  I'm not
JH>condemning them for that, even if one might get that impression; but was
JH>just saying that to the Klingons, the Federation ought to be considered
JH>as not much of a threat.  In terms of forces they are, but in action,
JH>attacking a station like DS9 should be something they can always talk
JH>their way out of later.  With another race, it would be much more likely
JH>to lead to open conflict.

I _did_ have the impression you were condemning it; that's one of the
problems with text-only communication: not enough cues to actual
meaning, in a medium which encourages conversation-like modes of
expression.

The Federation has its own share of hotheads, but it generally restrains
them, as its collective culture does not endorse that style of behavior,
the way Klingon culture does - or as mediaeval European culture did, or
several other Earth cultures. There are some interesting parallels.

JH>LC>JH>It only takes one side to start a war, does it not?  If the other
JH>LC>Starting a war between two major powers is rarely one-sided.
JH>LC>Logically, it doesn't take two to make war, but in practice, between
JH>LC>major powers usually it does. They spend years, dancing around each
JH>LC>other, saying do we REALLY want to do this, and usually don't

JH>In our current state of the world, unless you have insane people in
JH>charge, yes.  I'm not saying the Klingons are insane, but they seem to
JH>be at least more rash, with a few exceptions.  Weren't a number of the
JH>Klingons rather displeased with Gowron for not being more activist in
JH>earlier seasons?

Yes, some of them were very displeased. But Gowron's a canny old man who
has survived lots of enemies, and sees more clearly the real dangers
involved in acquiring the Federation as a serious enemy.

We know, in fact, from at least one episode, that there's a significant
minority of younger Klingons who think the alliance with the Federation
was always a disgrace.

But as long as Gowron and other older, cautious-by-experience leaders
were in control, they were able to keep the alliance in place in the
face of that opposition, or, when it finally broke down, at least
prevent a move toward an actively hostile relationship. The interesting
question is when, exactly, Gowron was replaced by a Changeling.

<snip>

JH>LC>A single assault on DS9, that was beaten off, does count for much in
JH>LC>the grand scheme of things, in a culture that's more concerned with
JH>LC>pragmatic results than with the Klingons' version of "honor".

JH>Does, or does not?

"Does not". Sorry. <blush>

JH>LC>JH>..  but even so, first you help someone and cause them to become
JH>LC>JH>more of a threat, then you fight them to keep them from becoming

<snip>

JH>LC>JH>And so on up to five, that we know of, and are assuming the
JH>LC>JH>Changelings were behind.  The Klingons might well have attacked
JH>LC>JH>the Cardassians without any prompting, thus the Changelings would
JH>LC>JH>only have credit for the reduction in their forces.

JH>LC>Um, I think I supplied, if not proof, at least _evidence_ for
JH>LC>Changeling involvement in each incident I mentioned. Onscreen
JH>LC>evidence, I mean, not speculation. [We really don't know exactly when
JH>LC>Gowron was replaced by the Changeling; or if, even if that

JH>What was the evidence of Changeling involvement in the attack on
JH>Cardassia, again?  It was the Changeling plot which decimated their
JH>forces, but as you pointed out the Klingons had good reason to take down
JH>their adversaries while they had the chance, without needing a
JH>Changeling to help push them to do it.

I don't remember now exactly what I said about the Klingon attack on the
Cardassians; however, right after learning that Gowron had been replaced
by a Changeling, I may have been assuming that he'd _already_ been
replaced by that point. It's since been quite reasonably pointed out
that this ain't necessarily so. In which case, we don't have any
evidence of direct Changeling involvement in that decision, only
indirect, you're quite right.

 * OLX 2.1 TD * Proofread carefully to see if you any words out.

--- FLAME v1.0
 * Origin: Withouta Net - Drop In Anytime! - 617/846-5416 (1:101/230)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 330 of 469
 From : Lis Carey                           1:101/230       .òp 30 .þë 96 06:38
 To   : Jeff Hancock
 Subj : CANCELLED
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
JH>LC>JH>Lots?  I remember the teaser episode with Odo, nothing more.
JH>LC>You should, if nothing else, remember the episode where Tom Riker
JH>LC>stole the Defiant - and joint Federation/Cardassian pursuit of him
JH>LC>stumbled upon the Obsidian Order's secret shipyards. That was a
JH>LC>blatant one; there were other suggestions that something more
JH>LC>underhanded than usual was going on, too.

JH>I remember the episode, but not the shipyards.  Even so, why shouldn't
JH>they have have secret shipyards?  It's the Federation which has
JH>everything but the top-secret-research projects out in the open,
JH>perfectly natural for a race like the Cardassians to have concealed
JH>military production facilities.  Isn't it?

These weren't secret-from-the-Federation shipyards, which, of course,
_ought_ to be taken for granted, as you point out. These were Obsidian
Order-operated, secret from the Cardassian MILITARY high command. This
was highly annoying and not a little distressing to Dukat and others,
but did explain a diversion of resources which had been previously
suspected but not proven or explained.


 * OLX 2.1 TD * MSI HQ! BBS - Home of Off-Line Xpress 805-395-0650

--- FLAME v1.0
 * Origin: Withouta Net - Drop In Anytime! - 617/846-5416 (1:101/230)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 331 of 469
 From : Bob Klahn                           1:234/2         .åò 01 .âã 96 20:16
 To   : Todd Sullivan
 Subj : BY FORCE OF ARMS
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 TS> Reports from the Interior indicate that Bob Klahn leaked the following
 TS> to Nicolai Shapero, re: BY FORCE OF ARMS

 DJ>>>> <sigh>  And WHY did the southern states want to leave?
 NS>>> Just economics, really.
 BK>>  Yeah, abolishing slavery would have been very expensive.

 TS> Dunno about that.  According to Heinlein (in "Time Enough For Love"), a
 TS> slave economy can't compete with any other economy.  IIRC, he mentioned
 TS> the lack of initiative amongst the owners being the chief reason.

 Good point. That plus the cost of just policing the slaves, not to mention
 the incentive for the slaves to be *un*productive.

 As I often say, the more you do the more they want from you.

BOB KLAHN   bob.klahn@toltbbs.com

... Remember, going with the flow, usually takes you down the drain!   OJW
 * Silver Xpress V4.3P RB10275

--- FLAME v1.1
 * Origin: Telnet toltbbs.com or call 313-854-6001, Boardwatch #55 (1:234/2)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 332 of 469
 From : Bob Klahn                           1:234/2         .åò 01 .âã 96 20:16
 To   : David Johnston
 Subj : BY FORCE OF ARMS
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
->> BK>> I don't know of any examples of two democracies going to war
->> BK>>against each BK>> other.
->> NS> US and Great Britain.  The War of 1812.
->> Wasn't the King still holding power then, rather than the figurehead
->> the soveriegn is today. Wasn't it a real monarchy rather than a
->> titular one?

 DJ> Iffy.  But then again, when one takes slaves and women into account, the
 DJ> U.S. wasn't much of a democracy either.

 The slaves especially, but I consider the process of freeing the slaves,
 giving women the vote, etc, part of the process of becoming a real
 democracy.

 Shouldn't forget the rules restricting the vote to land owners, either. Only
 I don't know if there ever were any such restrictions in the US to any
 extent.

BOB KLAHN   bob.klahn@toltbbs.com

... Remember...sometimes the dragon wins.
 * Silver Xpress V4.3P RB10275

--- FLAME v1.1
 * Origin: Telnet toltbbs.com or call 313-854-6001, Boardwatch #55 (1:234/2)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 333 of 469
 From : Frank Glover                        1:2613/477      .ÿò 02 .âã 96 19:19
 To   : Brion Lienhart
 Subj : Re: CANCELLED
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

BL>   -FG>interstellar distances. (The inventor, however, first thought
BL>  he'd
BL>   -FG>connected to another world with jungle-like vegatation...passed
BL>   -FG>through, only to find himself in the garden of an Earthly
BL>  tropical
BL>   -FG>hotel...!) As I recall, the system was used by Outward

BL>  IIRC, the inventor was trying to invent a time-travel machine, and
BL>  thought he'd opened a portal back to the dinosaur ages.

   I stand corrected. Like I said, it's been 25 years or so since I read it.
Maybe it's time to go back and re-enjoy some of them. (Have Space Suit-Will
Travel is still my favorite of all Heinlein, and one of my all-time favorite SF
stories.)

   Frank


--- QuickBBS 2.81 GoldBase (Zeta-2.0)
 * Origin: The Matrix Data Bank BBS, Rochester, Ny (1:2613/477)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 334 of 469
 From : Frank Glover                        1:2613/477      .ÿò 02 .âã 96 19:26
 To   : Don Bach
 Subj : Re: BY FORCE OF ARMS
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

DB>  DB>  utopia!).  Star Wars seems to break all racial barriers, but
DB>  shows a
DB>  DB>  war between good and evil dictatorships (aren't the rebel forces
DB>   FG>
DB>   FG>    Even there, there seemed to be a race-like attitude
DB>   FG> against droids, if that bartender's actions on
DB>   FG> Tattoine are any example....
DB>   FG>
DB>  Interesting.....  At what point do we consider machines a race
DB>  instead of man-made objects designed to do work for us?  Since I do
DB>  not consider machines to be a race, I would not consider the
DB>  bartender's actions to be racially oriented.

   Perhaps. But the comment; "We don't allow their kind in here." is hard to
interpret any other way. Maybe some parts of Tattoine has a social or religious
bias against artifical intelligences? I can imagine that happening on Earth
easily enough. Asimov sort of predicted that, and introduced his Robotic Laws.
That senior officer's attitude toward Data when he was briefly placed in command
of a starship ever so slightly smacks of that, too.

   Frank


--- QuickBBS 2.81 GoldBase (Zeta-2.0)
 * Origin: The Matrix Data Bank BBS, Rochester, Ny (1:2613/477)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 335 of 469
 From : Frank Glover                        1:2613/477      .ÿò 02 .âã 96 19:29
 To   : All
 Subj : This tagline
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

GN>  ... "Walking into the jaws of Death so's you can steal His gold
GN>  teeth..."

   Anyone know where this quote's from?

   Frank


--- QuickBBS 2.81 GoldBase (Zeta-2.0)
 * Origin: The Matrix Data Bank BBS, Rochester, Ny (1:2613/477)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 336 of 469
 From : Michael Harper                      1:123/10        .åò 01 .âã 96 22:07
 To   : Mark Jones
 Subj : B5 RENEWED
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
While sipping a dry martini, Mark Jones told Michael Harper about B5 RENEWED...

 MJ> Before you go on the warpath (har har)...consider that the indians are
 MJ> hardly alone in this regard.  If you watch television (or most films)
 MJ> with someone knowledgeable about *any* subject, the utter lack of
 MJ> reality in most television programs is appalling.

 Yeah. They call it "dramatic license"... Even shows that are supposed
 to be reality-based aren't.

 MJ> Cops don't act like real-world cops.  Automobiles fly through the air
 MJ> like airplanes...and land, and keep going.  Handguns are treated like
 MJ> magic wands.  Sound effects in space....

 Oh, yeah. In movies, too. My favorite peeve is the silenced revolver.
 And I've gotten to where I count the number of shots that somebody's
 fired. There's no such animal as an eight-shot revolver, but I've seen
 those and bigger... And don't get me going on flying cars.

 MJ> Some of it is intentional.  I don't think any moron in Hollywood
 MJ> *really* believes that sound travels in a vacuum--but they insist on
 MJ> sound effects because they believe the audience wants it (and they may
 MJ> be right, in some cases).

 You'd be surprised. There are some real dumbshits in H'wood. My
 favorite story is the one about the new young studio exec who dragged
 all the directors on the lot into his office to find out what they'd
 done during their careers. He looked them over, picked out the oldest,
 and said "You. You're old. You probably ain't done much." The director
 in question was Fred Zinneman, who directed "High Noon", "A Man For All
 Seasons" and "Oklahoma!", and won an Oscar for a little war movie
 called "From Here To Eternity"...

 MJ> A lot of occurs because they don't know the reality--or don't care.
 MJ> And frankly, in many cases, they're right--the masses *don't* know the
 MJ> difference and/or they don't care.  (I never thought much about how
 MJ> accurate Chakotay's "indian" heritage was--I was foaming at the mouth
 MJ> about far more blatant stupidities....)

 Yeah, well, skating around the inside of the event horizon of a
 singularity is pretty bad. The thing that appalls me is that a lot of
 Trekfen take such rot as gospel; after all, it was on Trek, and their
 science is ALWAYS right...

 The ones who drive me crackers are the people who think that, because
 it appeared on Trek, Trek invented it. Like Trek invented nanotech, and
 the Dyson Sphere... I'm sorry, folks. Go back to school, or pick up a
 book besides the latest Trek novel. Study up on science, and maybe
 you'll find out where Trek gets all those wonderful ideas...


... "He's a recording!" --Don Masters
--- RA/FD/FMail
 * Origin: The Eclectic Fox -- Memphis TN  (901)327-1008 (1:123/10)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 337 of 469
 From : J.T. Smith                          1:132/152       .pä 31 .þë 96 01:03
 To   : Bob Klahn
 Subj : CANCELLED
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.SPTH: Fidonet#1:132/152
From a man who's mind is not merely twisted, but sprained!

 BK> There was a suggestion of disposing of radioactive waste by dumping
 BK> it in the sun. This raised objections of the possibility of triggering
 BK> some sort of reaction. As if all the nuclear waste on earth would make
 BK> a bubble on the sun.
 BK> Of course, in _Bill the Galactic Hero_ they did manage to overload a
 BK> star, but that was with ordinary garbage.

 I must thank ye.  I've been debating about reading that should I ever find
 the first book in the series.  I now know that I shall read it, should I
 ever bleeding locate it.



... Logical solutions are not always the most obvious.
--- AdeptXBBS v1.07f (Registered)
 * Origin: The Cereal Port BBS - 603-899-3335 - 199.125.78.1 (1:132/152)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 338 of 469
 From : J.T. Smith                          1:132/152       .ÿò 02 .âã 96 10:38
 To   : Kay Shapero
 Subj : By Force Of Arms
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.SPTH: Fidonet#1:132/152
From a man who's mind is not merely twisted, but sprained!

 -> DJ> external enemy.  Of course at that time, nobody had thought of
 -> any DJ> alternatives to dictatorship in the area...
 -> A: They enlisted religion to do it.
 DJ>OF COURSE they did!  Dictatorships ALWAYS try to enlist religion
 DJ>to solidify control.
 KS> How about the late Soviet Union?  Unless, of course, you want to
 KS> classify Communism as a religion.

 Although Communism could be *LOOSELY* called a religion, the religion that
 they enlisted would be Atheism.  Although, it's nae SF, I feel it's related
 to this.  IAE, I personally recomend "The Answer To Moscow's Bible" by
 Richard Wurmbrand.  It's an excellent read. (FYI, he spent 15 years in
 Communist prisons in Romania for his faith in God.  I'll tell ye now, he
 writes it from a Christian standpoint; but it's so good, I'm sure that even
 non-Christians would enjoy it.)

... Oxymoron: Standard deviation.
--- AdeptXBBS v1.07f (Registered)
 * Origin: The Cereal Port BBS - 603-899-3335 - 199.125.78.1 (1:132/152)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 339 of 469
 From : J.T. Smith                          1:132/152       .ÿò 02 .âã 96 10:45
 To   : Jeff Hancock
 Subj : Japanese SF
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.SPTH: Fidonet#1:132/152
From a man who's mind is not merely twisted, but sprained!

 JH> I also found someone who has a great deal of fanmade anime music
 JH> videos, although a lot of them are 4th-5th generation.  Nevertheless
 JH> I'd like to see what they did with Weird Al's "Slime Creatures from
 JH> Outer Space".

 If ye get this, could ye post me a msg?  I'd love to get a copy.  I'm a huge
 Wierd Al fan.


... "I'll be mellow when I'm dead." - "Wierd Al" Yankovic
--- AdeptXBBS v1.07f (Registered)
 * Origin: The Cereal Port BBS - 603-899-3335 - 199.125.78.1 (1:132/152)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 340 of 469
 From : Darre LuAllen                       1:3637/1        .ÿò 02 .âã 96 09:57
 To   : Michael Harper
 Subj : Japanese SF
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 On 07-28-96 Michael Harper wrote to Jeff Hancock...

 MH> Taylor sounds absolutely hilarious. I'd love to get hold of episode of
 MH> it for next years' MidSouthCon video room, and maybe find the complete

 Mike, you work the video room?  If so, then perhaps you can answer
 this question:  What is a con allowed to show in a video room without
 having to pay for re-broadcast rights?

 MH> run for my own amusement. Same with the Dirty Pair stuff; I'd like to
 MH> find both series dubbed correctly if possible, but that's wishful
 MH> thinking at best. Ah, such a nice dream... Imagine Kei and Yuri with
 MH> their voices dubbed by Winona Ryder and Alicia Silverstone. Not
 MH> perfection, but near to it...

 I can see Winona Ryder, but Alicia Silverstone?  I guess she has that
 teen-aged girl voice.  Personally, I'd rather see... er, hear Megan
 Ward or perhaps Alyssa Milano as the voice of Kei.  Winona Ryder would
 do an excellent Yuri.

 MH>  For that matter, imagine Kei and Yuri done live action...

 Can't.  You can't build a body like that in a gravity well.
___
 * OFFLINE 1.56 * I am Homer, a Borg.  Prepare to be assim...Mmmm, donuts.


--- Maximus/2 3.01
 * Origin: Cumberland BBS -TN- V34 (1:3637/1)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 341 of 469
 From : Darre LuAllen                       1:3637/1        .ÿò 02 .âã 96 10:05
 To   : Kay Shapero
 Subj : SF Club questions
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 Kay,
      If I recall, you mentioned that you are a member of the LA SF
 club.  I'm looking at starting a club here, and was wondering about
 how to go about it.  We are a much smaller area (understatement), but
 I think enough people here might be interested.

 To start with, how often does the club meet?

 What activities does the club participate in?

 Is the club sponsored in any way?  What are dues and where do they go?

 That's all I can think of now.  I'm sure I'll come up with others in
 future.  Thanks in advance.

                                        At your Service,
                                        Darre LuAllen

___
 * OFFLINE 1.56 * Does the name "Pavlov" ring a bell?

--- Maximus/2 3.01
 * Origin: Cumberland BBS -TN- V34 (1:3637/1)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 342 of 469
 From : Pavel Viaznikov                     2:5020/185.9    .ÿò 02 .âã 96 22:29
 To   : Bob Klahn
 Subj : BY FORCE OF ARMS
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Hi there, Bob!

Tuesday July 30 1996 21:02, Bob Klahn wrote to Don Bach:

 DB>> in the world who are not at war.  About the only one I can think of
 DB>> which is stable is Castro in Cuba and we are an enemy for him,
 DB>> possibly preventing the need for him to wage war.

- Just recently I've seen a Cuban caricature: Comrade Castro is going to cross
out President Clinton from a long list of the US Presidents who ruled since 1959
- while Clinton, on the other side of the Caribean sea, gives another prophesy
about a sure, inevitable end of Fidel's regime coming soon  ;)

 BK>>> One of the major reasons for war, perhaps the major reason, is that
 BK>>> a dictatorship must have an enemy to survive. Since a dictatorship
 BK>>> must have an enemy, then sometimes the enemies must go to war.
 DB>> Hmmm.  I hadn't thought of that angle.  There are many dictatorships
 BK>  Exactly the normal purpose of the enemy. The actual wars only happen
 BK> every so often just because somebody pushes it too far.

- The enemy is necessary, because you must have somebody who is  responcible for
your mistakes and miseries.

 BK>>> I don't know of any examples of two democracies going to war against
 BK>>> each other.

- I do. There are no dictator regimes willing to declare that they are not
democratic; there are very few truly democratic regimes. Thus, a Maldives war
was a war between a democratic junta and a semitotalitarian democracy (ask the
British if Mme.Thatcher - whom I really respect and wish she could be our
President here in Russia - was a democratic leader).

 BK>   From the constitution of the CSA.
 BK>  **********************************************************************
 BK>      (4) No bill of attainder, ex post facto law, or law denying
 BK>  or impairing the right of property in negro slaves shall be
 BK>  passed.

-  =8-Q=

Is this really from the US Constitution?! I be damned... Stalin's Constitution
sounded _far_ more democratic...

 BK>   Anyway, utopia may be a nice place to live, but what kinda ratings would
 BK>  it get?

- Thinkest thou so? In Campanella's Utopia, each citizen was supervised by a man
whose task was to check if the happy subject of the Sun State works as he should
and if he does not try to undermine his democratic Motherland...

"Both were barefooted, wreathed with laurels and wrapped in pleated robes. One
had a navvy spade in one hand and a parchment scroll in the other; the second
leaned on a mattock and absend-mindedly played with a giant copper ink-pot,
hanging from his waist... The guy with the spade explained the principles of the
political system of the beautiful country, of which both were proud subjects.
The principles were absolutely democratic, and any compulsion of the citizens
was absolutely out of question - in fact, the very word, "compulsion", was
unknown to them (he strassed the point several times). Everybody was absolutely
free and no one was forced to work - and they never took money for their free
toils, because they did not know what money was. Even the poorest and lowest
ploughman had not less than three slaves..." (C) Arcady & Boris Strugatsky,
"Monday begins on Saturday"

                                           Yours, Pavel

_ sOrRry foR mY unEveN hAnDwriTinG, i aM rEalLY dOinG mY bESt' yOu knOw.-_

---
 * Origin:    Happy Christmas! (C) Herod the King    (2:5020/185.9)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 343 of 469
 From : Steven Ross                         1:243/45        .åò 01 .âã 96 23:42
 To   : Bob Klahn
 Subj : By Force Of Arms
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 On 07-28-96 Bob Klahn wrote to Steven Ross...

BK>  I was going to argue that point, but the image of Bush saying the
BK> price of gas would be $10/gallon if his opponent had won the election
BK> popped into my mind.

        Yes the price of gas here has left most of us wanting to blow
something up.

SR>  benifits of western society.

BK>  Actually, he does, he just wants a part of the benefits that don't
BK> blow up his herd.

        You know if it were on topic, (which it isn't) I could tell you a
great story about the Canadian 1st Airborne, a dead looter, and three
cammels.

BK>  I have been highly critical on those very points. Fortunately it
BK>  happened, or started, under a republican administration.
BK> (gratuitous shot)

        <*Blink*> I thought you were a republican!?!

BK>  Mostly to those who weren't there.

        If we were there, we wouldn't need someone else to tell us what
happened. On our side, anyway.

BK>  Reminds me of the story of the actor who was hired to impersonate a
BK>  politician who had a stroke. The politician had just been selected as
BK>  prime minister of an Earth under a figurehead emporer. Turned out the
BK>  politician was an old friend of the emporer, and the emporer spotted
BK> the substitution immediately. He went along with it, however.

BK>  Why do I think this was Heinlein?

        I don't know, I have a friend who could tell us when I get a chance
to see him again.

BK>  And, did you ever see the movie, _Dave_? And does the plot sound
BK>  familiar?

        Yes I have seen _Dave_, but its hardly a new plot. In WWII the
British sent an actor who was a dead-ringer for Montgomery to North Africa
just before D-Day in order to fool the Germans.

BK>  And did you notice how slyly I veered this back on topic? Pretty good
BK> for something straying that far, don't you think?

        Yes, very slick. Thank you, I was begining to worry that our
moderator would be upset with me. <g>

... OFFLINE 1.41 * There is no death; there is the Force - Jedi Code

--- Maximus 2.01wb
 * Origin: Pandora's Box, Ottawa, Ont. 613-829-1209 (1:243/45)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 344 of 469
 From : Todd Sullivan                       1:202/720.3     .ÿò 02 .âã 96 18:01
 To   : Glenn Shaheen
 Subj : Realistic space scenes
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Reports from the Interior indicate that Glenn Shaheen leaked the following to
Patrick Duda, re: Realistic space scenes

 PD>>  Is Space:1999 on tape?

 GS>         I don't know. I've only ever seen about 10 episodes, and that
 GS> was three years ago when I lived in Canada. They played it on YTV for a
 GS> while. They may still play it.

Space: 1999 still plays occasionally, but you have to look for it.

There might be a few tapes available; I seem to remember seeing them offered
mailorder.  Can't remember where, though.

Sci-Fi Channel (where available) caries it, I'm sure, since I've seen a few of
the old Twilight Zone and Outer Limits episodes there.

Todd Sullivan

... "To boldly go where everyone has gone before!"

-*- ASTG 1.9

--- Spot 1.3a Unregistered
 * Origin: Todd's Spot in the Continuum (1:202/720.3)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 345 of 469
 From : Jeff Hancock                        1:3600/7        .ÿò 02 .âã 96 20:15
 To   : David Johnston
 Subj : Gundam 0083
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

DJ>-> the Federation (of what?), which is of those loyal to Earth, and
DJ>The Federation of Earth nations.

Sou ka.  Arigato!  They probably said it once and it blipped straight
out the other ear. ^_^

What do you know about the various Gundam series and timeline/"world"?
Even given the impracticalities, it's been an interesting and enjoyable
story so far... have requested the next four in the 0083 series, as well
as the first four of "Gundam Wing", and have had the movie "Char's
Counterattack" on order for a month or so, so it may show up sometime
soon.

The ones I know of, total, are:
        (TV series)
        GUNDAM          (probably where I should have started, eh?)
        Zeta Gundam
        ZZ Gundam
        V-Gundam
        G-Gundam
        Gundam Wing

        (OVAs)
        Gundam 0080
        Gundam 0083

        (movies)
        Gundam F91
        Char's Counterattack

        (unknown)
        Super-Deformed Gundam  (Comedy or serious story with silly art?)

Some of these I've seen on various tape-trader lists, some I haven't,
including the original single-named TV series that I don't know if
*anyone* has.

Any input you can give me, like which ones are most worth seeing or
whatever, would be helpful.  Not that it isn't fun trying to piece
everything together from the background clues... ;)
-=-
 * Crazy-J * "Bother",said Pooh,as Sailor Moon threatened t'punish him

--- SLMAIL v3.5C  (#1540)
 * Origin: Robotech  -=-Fansubbed anime available upon request-=- (1:3600/7)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 346 of 469
 From : Jeff Hancock                        1:3600/7        .ÿò 02 .âã 96 18:51
 To   : Michael Harper
 Subj : Japanese SF
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

MH> JH> Irresponsible Captain Taylor (1-4 of 36?), but I haven't had the
MH> JH> Taylor is an SF parody of a guy who gets his own starship
MH> JH>command by chance (but it's a junker) and bumbles his way to
MH> Taylor sounds absolutely hilarious. I'd love to get hold of episode

By now you should have seen my rambling about the first episode.  I
still can't remember the number of eps, but it's like 24 or 26.  It's a
little more serious in design then I expected, but still good... Don't
know when he'll get the ship, though.

Unfortunately, due to echomail and other things, I haven't had time to
watch any more of it.  Will try to get in another episode tonight, but
unless there's interest I probably won't keep going on about it. ;)

MH>of it for next years' MidSouthCon video room, and maybe find the

I have absolutely no objection to making copies, and the original is
pretty good quality.

MH>complete run for my own amusement. Same with the Dirty Pair stuff;

It may be hard to find.  I'm getting it from Silverwynd, and she's only
got somewhere around 16 episodes.  Now DP is much rarer, Aquarian has
the first four, and there are a few individual episodes floating around
out there, but not the entire 24 or 26 episode season AFAIK.

MH>I'd like to find both series dubbed correctly if possible, but that's
MH>wishful thinking at best. Ah, such a nice dream... Imagine Kei and

Incredibly much so.  ;)  Dubs?  I've gotten so used to hearing it in
Japanese that anything animated in English doesn't feel quite right
anymore. ^_^

For DP dubs though, there's the three that Streamline has out on the
market.  I would personally recommend Project Eden, which to me is the
epitome of the DP, with plenty of action, spying, and the usual carnage.
<g>  After that, Flight 005 Conspiracy, which has a lot of investigative
work and a bit of a downer ending, but is still fun.  I didn't much care
for Affair On Nolandia, though.

Streamline is notorious for altering their work, but, I have to say that
the end result is _usually_ still entertaining, and even when they have
a few stupid-sounding voice actors, overall it's usually a decent dub
job.

However, if you plan to show them publicly, I'd definitely recommend
getting approval from Streamline.  They're more fan-friendly then most
companies (although they don't release subs, they allegedly don't mind
fansubbers distributing subtitled original versions of anime they've
adapted and dubbed, unlike every other U.S. anime distributor), but it's
still a very good idea to consult with them first.  As long as admission
isn't being charged, it should be fine though.

MH>Yuri with their voices dubbed by Winona Ryder and Alicia Silverstone.
MH>Not perfection, but near to it...

The Streamline voices are not bad, but to be honest, the idea of English
voices of any kind for either of them really doesn't appeal to me like
it used to.

MH> For that matter, imagine Kei and Yuri done live action...

I doubt it could live up to most people's expectations.  The
small-budgets can't afford to do it right, and the big-budgets get
hacked to pieces in the process.  Those who would enjoy it the most
would be those who never saw the original.
-=-
 * Crazy-J * "On behalf of hunney,I will puni--oh, bother."-SailorPooh

--- SLMAIL v3.5C  (#1540)
 * Origin: Robotech  -=-Fansubbed anime available upon request-=- (1:3600/7)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 347 of 469
 From : Jeff Hancock                        1:3600/7        .óá 03 .âã 96 16:01
 To   : Patrick Duda
 Subj : Macross 7
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

PD>   I've been seeing a lot of buzz on this new Macross 7 series thing
PD>on the web lately. I'm SERIOUSLY interested in it.

What sort of buzz?

PD>     Is it a TV series? When did it air? Is it available on tape (any

I really don't remember if I've heard anything about it.  If it's over
six or seven parts, it's probably a TV series.  Shorter than that, an
OVA series.

PD>format) Are there any more macross spinoffs other than MC2, DYRL,
PD>MPlus, and the M:sentinels stuff?

I believe the Sentinels are a U.S. creation, so they don't "count".

Saw this message in ANIME today, if it helps any.

DP>The proper timeline is: Macross TV series, Macross Plus,
DP>Macross 7, with Macross II an "alternate universe" and
DP>Macross: Do you Remember Love the movie made in the Macross
DP>world of the "real" events in the TV show.

-=-
 * Crazy-J * I say, why, I say, that boy's squarer than a box factory.

--- SLMAIL v3.5C  (#1540)
 * Origin: Robotech  -=-Fansubbed anime available upon request-=- (1:3600/7)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 348 of 469
 From : Wayne Crow                          1:3602/477      .óá 27 .þë 96 12:45
 To   : John Aldrich
 Subj : Trek Con in Birmingham?
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
JA>I've heard there's a Trek convention in Birmingham this fall, with William
JA>Shatner. Anyone got any more info, such as time, place, etc?
JA>Thanks...

  There's going to be one at the Marshal Space flight Center in
Huntsville. But as far as I know they're not going to be one in B'ham.
I'll check though and let you know..

Wayne
wcrow@bham.net

***
 þ QMPro 1.53 þ People say I'm indecisive.  Am I?  I don't know.

--- TriToss (tm) Professional 1.0 - #114
 * Origin: Adventure Sports BBS-McCalla,Al. (205)477-4214 (1:3602/477.0)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 349 of 469
 From : Stephen Simmons                     1:275/160       .óá 03 .âã 96 23:23
 To   : Bob Klahn
 Subj : waste dumping ...
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE 1.11+
 ÕÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍµJ.T. Smith wrote:

BK> There was a suggestion of disposing of radioactive waste by dumping
BK> it in the sun. This raised objections of the possibility of triggering
BK> some sort of reaction. As if all the nuclear waste on earth would make
BK> a bubble on the sun.
BK> Of course, in _Bill the Galactic Hero_ they did manage to overload a
BK> star, but that was with ordinary garbage.

    As Heinlein pointed out in _Expanded_Universe_, this is a
    bad idea.  Yes, there are drawbacks to having the stuff
    around, but it would be a lot worse to irretrievably destroy
    it all and then find out that we could actually find a
    significant beneficial use for it.


Blackjack
... Don't get MAD ... read something more cerebral.
___ Blue Wave/DOS v2.30 [NR]
--- Smile :)
 * Origin: * The Beast's Lair * (804)498-3070 * Va Beach VA * (1:275/160)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 350 of 469
 From : Frank Swarbrick                     1:104/825       .ÿò 02 .âã 96 20:50
 To   : Bill Hedrick
 Subj : Re: By Force Of Arms
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12  92-0022
On 07-31-96  11:26, shipwrecked and comatose, Bill Hedrick said:

 BH> In a message dated 07-29-96 NICOLAI SHAPERO wrote to DON BACH:
 DB>I can think of two:  The War of 1812 (England has been a
 DB>democracy since the Magna Carta) and the War of Northern Aggression.

 NS> It's commonly referred to in non-revisionist history books as the
 NS> Civil War.

 BH> A less apt name for a war I've never seen.

Why?

civil: 1. of a citizen or citizens  2. of a community of citizens,
 their government, or their interrelations

Sounds pretty apt to me...  A war between citizens of the same
country.  Hmm...

        Frank

... Blaine is a pain, and that is the truth.
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12
 * Origin: The Bailey Information Exchange BBS, 28.8k v.fc  (1:104/825.0)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 351 of 469
 From : Frank Swarbrick                     1:104/825       .ÿò 02 .âã 96 21:07
 To   : All
 Subj : new Dark Shadows again
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12  92-0022
Well, I just watched what is I believe was the last episode.  (Well,
maybe not.  Looking in the TV listings it says "Barnabas commissions
Sam to paint his portrait," and this is definatly *not* what happened
in this episode!).  Anyhow, it's the one where Victoria is to be
executed, Sarah dies, et al.  I watch in wonderment at the horridness
of it all.  (No, the show is not horrid, but horrible things happen to
the characters.)  Especially Barnabas.  His whole world is crumbling
around him, and he is forced to be the cause of so much of it.  I
honestly feel for him, which is something I really did not expect.
This show really affects me, and haunts me.  I expected that the show
might be a fun, yet silly, piece of TV history, but I is just an
honestly wonderful show.  About the only thing I don't like is the
Angelique witch/ghost is *way* overboard, and rather a joke.  But all
of the rest of the characters and actors are deadly serious, and
wonderful because of it.  I'm reminded somewhat of Twin Peaks, except
TP had all it's bizzare humor, which Dark Shadows has none of.

Anyway...

        Frank

... "It's too late for salvation." --Sheriff Lucas Buck
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12
 * Origin: The Bailey Information Exchange BBS, 28.8k v.fc  (1:104/825.0)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 352 of 469
 From : GERRY NORMANDEAU                    1:243/95        .óá 03 .âã 96 16:39
 To   : KAY SHAPERO
 Subj : Flipping the Cordwainer B
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Standing at the gallows pole Kay Shapero spat a curse on Roy Leblanc, accusing
im of Flipping the Cordwainer B!

 KS> On <Jul 30 18:31>, Roy LeBlanc (1:396/17.40) wrote to Frank
 KS> Swarbrick:
 RL>Harlan Elison had one of his tv projects altered so badly that he
 RL>insisted it be credited to a Cordwainer Bird, as I recall.

 KS> "The Starlost".  And after having both seen the regrettable excresence
 KS> that  hit the screen under that name AND read his original treatment,
 KS> all I can  say is that I don't blame him at all for flipping them the
 KS> Bird.  I wish  someone had made the show he outlined.  It looked
 KS> promising.
 KS> (Interesting situation - there is a generation ship containing little
 KS> enclaves of various societies, most of whom have no idea the others
 KS> exist,  or even that they're on a space ship.  Unfortunately, the ship
 KS> is headed  straight for disaster unless someone figures out what's
 KS> going on and makes  some course correctons.  For various reasons a
 KS> handful of the inhabitants  fetch up "behind the scenes" so to speak,
 KS> and have to figure out what's  going on, learn to deal wth each other
 KS> (they're not all from the same  enclave), find the bridge and figure
 KS> out how to steer.)

Oh my god! How I wish I could forget it! :) The real discrase is it was
created and filmed in Canada by a Canadian company. All the effect were
done using miniatures and cromakeying the actors on the scean. Even at
that time I fealt the show was a total joke. The idea was good but man
oh man what a dog! I hope they play it again soon, I just have to see
it again :)

________________________________________________________________________
|  _______    |                   GERRY NORMANDEAU                     |
|  []    |    |   cn754@freenet.carleton.ca / Vanier, Ontario, CANADA  |
|  []    O    |~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~|
|  []   /|\   |Royal Hangman To His Majesty King Bruno The Questionable|
|  []   / \   |~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~|
|  []         |        "ALWAYS ROOM FOR ONE MORE, ME'LORD!"            |
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
... AD&D FLW: "Why are you pointing behind me?"

___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20
--- Platinum Xpress/Wildcat! v1.2j
 * Origin: The OFFSPRING BBS! Orleans, Ontario CANADA (613)834-8587 (1:243/95)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 353 of 469
 From : Don Bach                            1:3632/65       .pä 31 .þë 96 12:27
 To   : Frank Glover
 Subj : Re: BY FORCE OF ARMS
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

DB>  utopia!).  Star Wars seems to break all racial barriers, but shows a
DB>  war between good and evil dictatorships (aren't the rebel forces
 FG>
 FG>    Even there, there seemed to be a race-like attitude
 FG> against droids, if that bartender's actions on
 FG> Tattoine are any example....
 FG>

Interesting.....  At what point do we consider machines a race instead of
man-made objects designed to do work for us?  Since I do not consider machines
to be a race, I would not consider the bartender's actions to be racially
oriented.

Don


--- Maximus 3.01
 * Origin: No Regrets, Clinton, MS (601)924-8247 9P-5A (1:3632/65)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 354 of 469
 From : Don Bach                            1:3632/65       .åò 01 .âã 96 18:49
 To   : Nicolai Shapero
 Subj : BY FORCE OF ARMS
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 DB>I can think of two:  The War of 1812 (England has been a
 DB>democracy since the Magna Carta) and the War of Northern
 DB>Aggression.

 NS> It's commonly referred to in non-revisionist history
 NS> books as the Civil War.

"Revisionist" is a '90s term.  The term "War of Northern Aggression" is over 120
years old.

Don


--- Maximus 3.01
 * Origin: No Regrets, Clinton, MS (601)924-8247 9P-5A (1:3632/65)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 355 of 469
 From : Don Bach                            1:3632/65       .åò 01 .âã 96 18:51
 To   : Nicolai Shapero
 Subj : By Force OF Arms
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 NS> It is commonly referred to as the Civil War.  And it
 NS> wasn't between two countries -- it was between the
 NS> central government and a secessionist group that
 NS> called itself the Confederacy.  Please recall who fired
 NS> the first shot.  The revisionists who regard it as
 NS> "Northern Aggression" obviously don't quite understand
 NS> that (a) they lost the fight, and (b) their side fired
 NS> the first shot.

Yes, but a first shot like what was done at Ft. Sumpter was no excuse for the
later pillaging and burning done by U.S. troops.  Jackson still carries the
nickname "Chimneyville" because that's all that was left after the burning.

The Conferderate States of America was formed in March of 1861 with SC, MS, FL,
AL, GA, LA and TX as member states.  The decision of these states to leave the
U.S. was formalized by the elected legislatures of these states.  The country
elected Jefferson Davis as president.

The first shots were fired by CSA forces in April, 1861 when the U.S. attempted
to re-supply Fort Sumpter.

 NS> Of course, the idea of the primarily agricultural South
 NS> taking on the primarily industrial North was a little
 NS> bit silly to begin with.

Well, I think the original intent was for the states to form a separate country
and not have the U.S. retaliate like they did.  Re-supplying a fort on foreign
soil without that foreign country's permission is provocation, don't you think?

One thing which defines a Southerner is that he or she will stand up for what he
or she believes in.  Whether or not he or she will win is not a consideration.
The fact that the Southern States were very proud of their new country and not
to have the U.S. not respect it was enough to fight for.

Don

--- Maximus 3.01
 * Origin: No Regrets, Clinton, MS (601)924-8247 9P-5A (1:3632/65)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 356 of 469
 From : Don Bach                            1:3632/65       .åò 01 .âã 96 19:22
 To   : Darre LuAllen
 Subj : B5 Renewed
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 DL>  Now, one is dropping it because WB has
 DL>  decided to pull it from any station without Nielsson rating capability.
 DL>  The station is a WB affiliate.

This is really a shame.  What is WB thinking about?  How does it expect its
stations to *gain* rating capability?

 DL>  The other station is a big "Trek"
 DL>  station.  I think either the owner or program director is an SF fan.
 DL>  However, they have moved B5 to Sunday nights.  They are a FOX affiliate,
 DL>  so those of us who tape B5 are in trouble when football season starts.

Our Fox affiliate is a big Trek station, from even before Fox came into being.
However, they lost out on ST:G for some reason.  Every night at 10:30 they show
either ST:TNG or ST:DS9 (past my bedtime).

 DL>  I think my only hope is a friend who works at the WB station.  He still
 DL>  plans to pull the show of satellite.  So, I guess I'll get to see it.

Great! Its good to have friends in the right places!

 DL>  And yes, I agree about moving shows.  Look
 DL>  what happened to Brisco Country Jr and Quantum Leap.  Digressing into
 DL>  conspiracy theory mode:  If NBC couldn't get rid of the show because of
 DL>  letter writing campaigns, perhaps they decided to kill the show through
 DL>  lack of ratings.

I think we need to find the reason why the show was moved into a later time
slot.  Possibly not because of low ratings, but marginal ones.

 DL>  Everyone in my family smokes,
 DL>  except me.  I'm allergic (can't breathe when around cigarette smoke).
 DL>  Makes it fun when I go home.  Everyone is forced to smoke on the porch,
 DL>  so Christmas time is even more fun.  Maybe some of
 DL> them will get tired of
 DL>  freezing and quit.

I sneeze more and have worse allergy attacks every time I go home.  I've worked
and am working where smoking in the building was/is prohibited.  Both places
had/have only one smoker and he/she will brave all elements for their habit.  I
wish the Postal Service did as well!

 DL>  Perhaps you can talk to someone from staff and try to
 DL> work something out.
 DL>  A decent guest list will draw people from all over.  I've been to some
 DL>  cons in places God has forgotten just to see some
 DL> specific guest.  I went
 DL>  to some hole in Georgia to see Bruce Boxlietner and Bruce Campbell (who
 DL>  was unable to show up).

The cons were co-sponsored by our local Fox affiliate and I think they may have
backed off.  We didn't have a no-show, but to have someone now show in this area
surely would kill it for the next year.

 DL>  Depending upon what type of fans
 DL>  you have in the area, a sub-genre or all-around would be best.  Just
 DL>  try to keep the overhead down.

Perhaps the all-around would work better, now that we have B5 on the air.  I
haven't priced the conference facilities, but the last one was attempted at our
state-run Trade Mart.  It is a very stark building, but just across the street
from about 3 hotels.  Possibly a total hotel setting would work better.

 DL>  Several week ends before, I was at
 DL>  Dragon*Con (the monster of the South).
 DL>
 DB> Where is this held?
 DL>
 DL>  Atlanta.  People come from all over.  I can find info for you, if you
 DL>  wish.  Otherwise, they have a web page.

Thanks... I'll try to pick up info from the Web.

 DB> I'll have to figure out a way to stay up tonight and watch

 DL>  Caffeine pills?  A speed ball?  Electro-shock to the {left out for
 DL>  matters of taste}?  Maybe just force of will and desire to see good
 DL>  SF TV?

None works when you have to get up at 5 or 6 AM to either get the family off to
church or myself off to work.

 DB> affiliate.  I sure wish the Sci-Fi Channel would pick up ST
 DB> and B5.
 DL>
 DL>  I don't.  I'd never get to see them.  Our cable system here won't
 DL>  expand for any reason.  Yet, we pay more than anyone else in the area.

Our cable system doesn't either.  We have Primestar.  If you are on the high end
of the cable fee spectrum, they would probably be competitive (or one of the
other digital satellite services).

Don

--- Maximus 3.01
 * Origin: No Regrets, Clinton, MS (601)924-8247 9P-5A (1:3632/65)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 357 of 469
 From : Don Bach                            1:3632/65       .åò 01 .âã 96 19:42
 To   : Todd Sullivan
 Subj : By Force OF Arms
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 DB> As far as the "Police Actions", we can't really call it a war unless
 DB> Congress declares war, can we?

 TS> You can call it what you like, but the result is the
 TS> same:  Death, destruction and disruption of all nations
 TS> involved, to some degree.

 TS> You can call them police actions, but I'm sure many
 TS> Vietnamese and Korean immigrants wouldn't agree with it.

Both wars and major police actions are the same - people get hurt.

A big difference was that South Korea was at war with North Korea.  South
Vietnam was at was with North Vietnam.  The U.S. was not with war with anyone at
the time.

The problem with the U.S. not declaring war is that things were only done part
way - a way which resulted in more casualties on our side and no victory.

Don


--- Maximus 3.01
 * Origin: No Regrets, Clinton, MS (601)924-8247 9P-5A (1:3632/65)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 358 of 469
 From : Don Bach                            1:3632/65       .åò 01 .âã 96 19:50
 To   : Bob Klahn
 Subj : BY FORCE OF ARMS
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 BK>  I asked a black woman if she could suggest any example of two democracies
 BK>  going to war. She also suggested the Civil War. (you know, the war to end
 BK>  slavery.)

 BK>  I asked her, "Would you call the confederacy a democracy?"

 BK>  Her answer, " I guess not."

She contradicted herself!  The CSA was formed by elected legislatures.  It was
as democratic as you could get at that time.  There were poll taxes and only men
could vote.  This was the same as in the U.S. at the time.  And most of the
legislators belonged to the Democratic Party.  Lincoln was a member of the newly
formed Republican Party.

 BK>   From the constitution of the CSA.

I haven't studied the CSA consitution, but from Encarta says it closely
resembled the U.S. constutution.  It outlawed African slave trade, but allowed
interstate slave trade.

Other issues which led to the creation of the CSA:  protectionist tarifs on
trade, federal subsidies for shipping and internal improvements, free government
homesteads and federal aid for roads and waterways.  They were fighting the
unconstitutional growth of the U.S. government.

Don

--- Maximus 3.01
 * Origin: No Regrets, Clinton, MS (601)924-8247 9P-5A (1:3632/65)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 359 of 469
 From : Frank Swarbrick                     1:104/825       .pä 31 .þë 96 19:00
 To   : Charles Daniels
 Subj : Warped In Space
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12  92-0022
On 07-30-96  18:41, shipwrecked and comatose, Charles Daniels said:

 > Did anyone watch the show Warped In Space on the Sci-Fi Channel last
 > week?  Definately warped!  Only problem is, it was neither very funny
 > nor very interesting.

 CD> It seems to me some drunk guy had one episode of the UK series
 CD> Red Dwarf (an excellent comedy sf show) and one episode of Beavis
 CD> & Butthead and decided a hybrid was in order.  Of course the
 CD> mutant that emerge "Warped In Space" had to be killed immediately.
 CD> I would suggest to everyone within hear shot to look up Red Dwarf for
 CD> realy sf comedy.

Heh heh, totally agree.  I've been watching Red Dwarf recently, and
it's generally pretty good.  WiS was terrible.

I also like 3rd Rock from the Sun, but it has little sci-fi in it, so
I'm not sure it counts.

        Frank

... Let them eat static!
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Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 360 of 469
 From : Frank Swarbrick                     1:104/825       .pä 31 .þë 96 20:55
 To   : Patrick Duda
 Subj : Alien Nation
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12  92-0022
On 07-30-96  02:05, shipwrecked and comatose, Patrick Duda said:

 >I'd have to say the Highlander series has surpassed the movies.  You can
 >only tell a story a certain amount of times before becoming repeticious,
 >and the series has thrown a few interesting twists and explored areas none
 >of the movies had time for.

 PD> Absoloutely. I think that series has incredible possibilities. After
 PD> all, you have dozens of lifetimes from which to tell stories. It
 PD> would be nice if maybe once in a while they acutally did an entire
 PD> episode in the past.

Ah yes, that sounds like another.  I've never seen the movies, nor
much of the series, but from all accounts that I've ever heard the
series is better.

        Frank

... Heaven is waiting and waiting is Hell.
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

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 * Origin: The Bailey Information Exchange BBS, 28.8k v.fc  (1:104/825.0)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 361 of 469
 From : Frank Swarbrick                     1:104/825       .pä 31 .þë 96 21:16
 To   : Roy Leblanc
 Subj : Dune movie
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12  92-0022
On 07-30-96  18:31, shipwrecked and comatose, Roy Leblanc said:

 RL> On (28 Jul 96) Frank Swarbrick wrote to All...

 FS> I just saw the movie of Dune on the Sci-Fi Channel yesterday.  I've
 FS> never read the book, but the movie didn't seem to make much sense.
 FS> But I know that's been said before.  Anyway, wasn't it directed by
 FS> David Lynch?  The version I saw said "Directed by Alan Smithee," or
 FS> some such thing, but I'm quite sure it was Lynch if only because half
 FS> a dozen of the actors (at least) are among the ones he likes to use.

 RL> Alan Smithee is, I believe, a code name used by the Directors Guild of
 RL> America (DGA) in place of someone who wishes his name to be removed
 RL> from a project after it has gone beyond a certain point.  This usually
 RL> happens because the producers have altered the project beyond the
 RL> director's vision.
 RL> I believe that Michael Medved or some other critic has catalogued
 RL> these in  one of his collections as the "Films of Alan Smithee."  There
 RL> is also a column called "Alan Smithee's Unreel Cinema" in the magazine,
 RL> _CINESCAPE_.
 RL> There are similar names used for actors (George Spelvin) and writers.
 RL> Harlan Elison had one of his tv projects altered so badly that he
 RL> insisted  it be credited to a Cordwainer Bird, as I recall.

You know, I was flipping through the Star Trek Compendium the other
day, and a lot of the writers were actually just Gene Coon or D.C.
Fontana using another name.  I wonder if they didn't want their names
associated with the episode, or if they just didn't want it to look
like they were writing half the episodes!  :-)

        Frank

... "It's too late for salvation." --Sheriff Lucas Buck
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12
 * Origin: The Bailey Information Exchange BBS, 28.8k v.fc  (1:104/825.0)

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 Msg  : 362 of 469
 From : Nicolai Shapero                     1:102/524       .åò 01 .âã 96 20:52
 To   : Bob Klahn
 Subj : BY FORCE OF ARMS
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Jul 30 21:02>, Bob Klahn (1:234/2) wrote to Nicolai Shapero:

 BK> From the constitution of the CSA.

[Irrelevant materials deleted]

The objective, as stated by the federal government, was not to abolish slavery
(that came much later).  The objective was to rejoin the secessionist states.
And rebel forces fired on a federal fort first.

-- Nicolai Shapero, the Mad Russian Sysop of StormGate Aerie

--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

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 Msg  : 363 of 469
 From : Nicolai Shapero                     1:102/524       .åò 01 .âã 96 20:56
 To   : Irv Koch
 Subj : Independent Echo Block
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Jul 31 21:05>, Irv Koch (1:109/629) wrote to All:

 IK>People who read this echo may be interested in the following.

Advertisements of other echomail conferences belong on the ECHO_REQ conference,
NOT the SFFAN conference.  Please make no further postings of this kind.

Thank you for your cooperation,

-- Nicolai Shapero, Moderator of the SFFAN echo

--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 364 of 469
 From : Michael Harper                      1:123/10        .cê 04 .âã 96 11:19
 To   : Darre LuAllen
 Subj : Japanese SF
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
While sipping a dry martini, Darre LuAllen told Michael Harper about
Japanese SF...

 DL> Mike, you work the video room?  If so, then perhaps you can answer
 DL> this question:  What is a con allowed to show in a video room without
 DL> having to pay for re-broadcast rights?

 That I don't know. I run current-release films that I can get at any
 video rental place, and sometimes series episodes of Trek, B5 or such.
 Rebroadcast rights never came up; video at cons is mostly in a sort of
 gray area. If you don't make an issue of it, most people don't care
 what you run. I suppose I could ask a friend who works for the local
 UPN affiliate...

 DL> I can see Winona Ryder, but Alicia Silverstone?  I guess she has that
 DL> teen-aged girl voice.  Personally, I'd rather see... er, hear Megan
 DL> Ward or perhaps Alyssa Milano as the voice of Kei.  Winona Ryder
 DL> would  do an excellent Yuri.

 Hm... Yeah, you're right. Milano would do very nicely as Kei.
 Silverstone was just the first one that came to mind...

 MH>  For that matter, imagine Kei and Yuri done live action...
 DL>
 DL> Can't.  You can't build a body like that in a gravity well.

 True, but the mass audience doesn't know that... and with the proper
 costuming, those bodies could be faked very well... I'd just love to
 see it tried. Done right, it would be so good...


... *Girls Wanted...All Positions...Will Train*
--- RA/FD/FMail
 * Origin: The Eclectic Fox -- Memphis TN  (901)327-1008 (1:123/10)

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 Msg  : 365 of 469
 From : Brion Lienhart                      1:213/700.2     .îí 05 .âã 96 10:05
 To   : Michael Harper
 Subj : B5 RENEWED
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On Thu Aug 01, Michael Harper said to Mark Jones:

 -MH> Oh, yeah. In movies, too. My favorite peeve is the silenced revolver.
 -MH> And I've gotten to where I count the number of shots that somebody's
 -MH> fired. There's no such animal as an eight-shot revolver, but I've
 -MH>seen those and bigger... And don't get me going on flying cars.

Actually, several of the major companies have come out with seven and eight shot
revolvers, mostly in .357 magnum. There have been 10 shot revolvers in .22 for
years and years.






--- QM v1.31
 * Origin: Ministry of Peace - Carson City, NV (1:213/700.2)

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 Msg  : 366 of 469
 From : Brion Lienhart                      1:213/700.2     .îí 05 .âã 96 09:50
 To   : J.T. Smith
 Subj : CANCELLED
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On Wed Jul 31, J.T. Smith said to Bob Klahn:

 -JS> I must thank ye.  I've been debating about reading that should I ever
 -JS>find
 -JS> the first book in the series.  I now know that I shall read it,
 -JS>should I
 -JS> ever bleeding locate it.

Just make sure that you have the right one. The first one was pretty good,
however the follow-ups that were published much later were pretty terrible (IMO<
of course). The only reason I got any of them was for the Mike Kaluta
illustrations.





--- QM v1.31
 * Origin: Ministry of Peace - Carson City, NV (1:213/700.2)

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 Msg  : 367 of 469
 From : Patrick Duda                        1:218/801       .îí 05 .âã 96 02:33
 To   : Leman Russ
 Subj : Re: Japanese SF
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12  91-0018

-> I have the video you speak of, it's called "Ghost inthe Shell" and
-> it's pretty damn good.

 Great! I was afraid it might be a japanese theatrical release. I found
out some time later that it was based on a comic by Masmune Shirow.
Figures. I only almost worship the guy's works (me and a lot of
others!). Goes to show the imprint sticks out. I'm still working on
getting the sets of the other series he did that's fairly popular,
Dominion Tank Police. Blah! Why can't vid companies put more episodes on
one tape, or offer two for one deals!

--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12
 * Origin: Star Tech Diamond Bar, CA 909-396-4227 714-257-1175  (1:218/801.0)

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 Msg  : 368 of 469
 From : Patrick Duda                        1:218/801       .îí 05 .âã 96 02:38
 To   : J.t. Smith
 Subj : Re: Realistic space scen
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12  91-0018

-> PD> looking at though really is this  anime thing called "spaceship
-> PD> crusier yamato" or something. Sounds good, it's also another
-> older
-> If it's the one that I think it is, I saw it on TV.  Pretty good as I
-> recall.  Actually, there's quite a bit on anime that I recommend if
-> ye're interested.

 Uh oh. Looks like I said the 'A' word! Stirrin' the pot. But i'll keep
it to SCifi. Oh, I know a lot about anime. I didn't know about the
Yamato series until recently, though. Probably the age. I heard it got
hacked into a typical NA cartoon called starblazers. Yamato is supposed
to the the original Macross, or space opera, anyway.
  My current pet projects right now (collecting everyhting possible) in
amime are of course Yamato (a little bit), Ghost in the Shell, and the
best series i've seen in a bit, Macross 7. I NEED to get the CD for
Macross 7. :) That's a good question. Do you know of any NATIONAL anime
distrubutors, like a catlog type place, instead of going anywhere and
everywhere to get stuff (but at reasonable prices, too)?

--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12
 * Origin: Star Tech Diamond Bar, CA 909-396-4227 714-257-1175  (1:218/801.0)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 369 of 469
 From : David Johnston                      1:342/14        .îí 05 .âã 96 00:59
 To   : Bob Klahn
 Subj : By Force Of Arms
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
-> GN> At this time the King was still the political leader, but this
-> also was GN> the begining of the decline of the power of the monarchy
-> to the
-> Actually, this seems to fit in with what I was saying. The dictator,
-> losing his power, tries to keep it by increasing tensions with the
-> 'enemy'.

The model doesn't fit the reality.  The United States went to war with
Britain because the British were being high-handed, (and because parts
of it's leaders were certainly interested in expanded the American
controlled area in North America).  Britain did not declare war on
the U.S. and certainly didn't want to deliberately provoke it into
opening up a new front of the Napoleonic wars.  They were merely
operating under the false assumption that the United States wouldn't
dare go to war with a nation so powerful as they were.

And the King wasn't in charge during this time period, the ministers
were.  The American Revolution was the last gasp of dictatorial power in
the British Empire.  By the time of the War of 1812, Britain would more
accurately be described as an oligarchy with some democratic trappings,
and the only thing that oligarchy was worried about was the possibility
that Napoleon was going to kick them on their kazoos and rule the world.
The American attack was opportunistic and reactive in nature.  They had
a grievance, and realised that Britain could not turn it's full power
loose on them as long as it was afraid of Napoleon.  If democracy
prevented resorts to warfare inherently, then insofar as the Americans
had pretensions to democracy, they should not have resorted to warfare
to get what they wanted.  The only reason why we have the present
relative democratic amity is because the Cold War successfully defined
all democracies as being on the same "side".

However it is certainly easier to go to war in a dictatorship, when only
one man's opinion need be considered.  But if resources should be become
particularly scarce, I can easily see democracies going to war with each
other to secure something they each consider essential to their
welfare...such as petroleum.

--- PCBoard (R) v15.21/100
 * Origin: Freddy's Place - Edm. AB - 33.6K (403) 413-3460 (1:342/14)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 370 of 469
 From : David Johnston                      1:342/14        .îí 05 .âã 96 01:06
 To   : Bob Klahn
 Subj : By Force Of Arms
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
-> DB> She contradicted herself!
-> She thought it over and changed her answer. So?
-> DB> The CSA was formed by elected legislatures.
-> The Roman Senate was elected, the Supreme Soviet was elected.

That pretty much underlines the pointlessness of the question.
Democracies haven't fought each other because democracies are simply too
rare in history to make it likely.  Since neither side in the Civil War
was a democracy, that pretty much eliminates all of history, leaving us
with an an inadequate statistical sample to reach a meaningful
conclusion.

--- PCBoard (R) v15.21/100
 * Origin: Freddy's Place - Edm. AB - 33.6K (403) 413-3460 (1:342/14)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 371 of 469
 From : David Durgee                        1:109/458       .îí 05 .âã 96 09:16
 To   : Stephen Simmons
 Subj : Waste dumping ...
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: InterEcho 1.18 6E011108
In a message dated 08-0396, Stephen Simmons said to Bob Klahn:

 J.T. Smith wrote:

BK> There was a suggestion of disposing of radioactive waste by dumping
BK> it in the sun. This raised objections of the possibility of triggering
BK> some sort of reaction. As if all the nuclear waste on earth would make
BK> a bubble on the sun.
BK> Of course, in _Bill the Galactic Hero_ they did manage to overload a
BK> star, but that was with ordinary garbage.

SS>    As Heinlein pointed out in _Expanded_Universe_, this is a
SS>    bad idea.  Yes, there are drawbacks to having the stuff
SS>    around, but it would be a lot worse to irretrievably destroy
SS>    it all and then find out that we could actually find a
SS>    significant beneficial use for it.

I've seen suggested plans in Analog for picking a site on the moon and
dumping it all there with vehicles launched from the shuttle and designed to
bury several feet under the surface.  This requires less delta-v and thus
fuel than a solar launch and allows us to retrieve it when a use is found.

Dave
___
 * MR/2 2.22 NR * "You live and learn, or you don't live long." -- Heinlein


--- InterEcho 1.18
 * Origin: The Shoreline BBS  - (301) 946-2771 - Silver Spring, MD (1:109/458)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 372 of 469
 From : Kay Shapero                         1:102/524       .cê 04 .âã 96 10:53
 To   : David Johnston
 Subj : Independence Day (belated
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Aug 03 00:54>, David Johnston (1:342/14) wrote to Pavel Viaznikov:

-> BTW, why do the Americans enjoy stories about the USA being destroyed
-> or mutilated this way or that (re. the Sliders, for example)?..

 DJ>Because the possibility is remote enough to be entertaining.

Regonial rivalries may also play a part - San Franciscans get the fun of
watching Los Angeles get trashed and vice versa; while the whole rest of the
country may get a certain amount of delight over watching Washington DC get
tromped... :->

(And then there was the time there was a tv movie about a comet smacking into
Phoenix Arizona.  It was aired a few weeks after the Phoenix Worldcon, and a
group of local fen who'd gone got together just for the fun of watching the
Adams Hotel get slagged... :->)

--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 373 of 469
 From : Kay Shapero                         1:102/524       .cê 04 .âã 96 10:56
 To   : David Johnston
 Subj : By Force Of Arms
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Aug 03 01:07>, David Johnston (1:342/14) wrote to Kay Shapero:

-> How about the late Soviet Union?  Unless, of course, you want to
-> classify Communism as a religion.

 DJ>They tried to turn it into one, or at least to incorporate the
 DJ>social control untility of religion into political ideology, normally
 DJ>by means of "personality cults".

Didn't do it very well though.  Mind you, I think religion is one of those
things human beings just do, like art, dance and song.

--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 374 of 469
 From : Joey Haven                          1:3654/5        .îí 05 .âã 96 02:25
 To   : Glenn Shaheen
 Subj : 1984 flick
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: FastEcho 1.45a 7602

 -=> Quoting Glenn Shaheen to All <=-

 GS> Has anybody seen the movie 1984? If so, was it true to the
 GS> book?

     Depends. IMO the one which starred John Hurt followed the book
     very closely and you didn't have to put-up with b&w. It was a
     British made move IIRC.

     There have been quite a few of movies made of 1984 but, only
     two IMO are worth watching an old b&w and the one w/ John Hurt.

     Good luck-
     Joey



... V-Chip:The Government's way of c#ns#r#ng wh#t y## s## #r r##d!
---
 * Origin: Programmers Paragon - Greensboro, NC (1:3654/5)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 375 of 469
 From : Ronny Fritz                         2:2432/907      .cê 04 .âã 96 00:00
 To   : All
 Subj : test, please don't be annoyed!
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.ORIGID: <6EDLRr9p2AB@ron.magic.owl.de>
                                                           04 Aug 96
Moin all,

sorry, but this is a test, if somebody would be so kind and drop me a
line via NM, it would be nice!

Thanks a lot!

Ciao,
     Ronny Fritz            E-Mail    : ron@magic.owl.de
     *NRW Germany*                      : r_fritz@bielefeld.netsurf.de

--- ZC2FIDO
 * Origin: Fidogate Magic.owl.de (2:2432/907)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 376 of 469
 From : Jeff Hancock                        1:3600/7        .cê 04 .âã 96 16:59
 To   : J.t. Smith
 Subj : Japanese SF
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

JS> JH>like to see what they did with Weird Al's "Slime Creatures from
JS> If ye get this, could ye post me a msg?  I'd love to get a copy.

Well, I could... if I ever get it... but I don't know how good the
quality would end up being.  I don't think this person has any videos
newer than third-gen, and many of them fifth/sixth-gen.

JS>I'm a huge Wierd Al fan.

There were at least a couple of others fanvids set to tunes by him.
Unfortunately I somehow lost the list, so I'm having to get a new one.
No idea how it happened... moved the list off to another directory, go
back to look for it and it's gone.  <sigh>

Here's one for the Sailor Moon fans out there, no the fanvid doesn't
exist that I know of, but someone suggested it so perhaps it'll be done
someday.  Try listening to the song "Venus" and imagine a video of the
Sailor in question posing and looking cool.  You'll never get that image
out your head on subsequent hearings. <g>

Now, I understand someone did a video featuring Tuxedo Mask set to
"Kiss of a Rose", or whatever it's called...
-=-
 * Crazy-J * "Shinjitsu wa soko ni aru.  Dare mo shinjiru na."

--- SLMAIL v3.5C  (#1540)
 * Origin: Robotech  -=-Fansubbed anime available upon request-=- (1:3600/7)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 377 of 469
 From : Don Bach                            1:3632/65       .îí 05 .âã 96 19:49
 To   : Frank Glover
 Subj : Re: BY FORCE OF ARMS
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 FG>    Perhaps. But the comment; "We don't allow their kind
 FG> in here." is hard to interpret any other way.

If the comment were directed toward *natural* life forms, I would certainly
consider it racist.

 FG> Maybe
 FG> some parts of Tattoine has a social or religious bias
 FG> against artifical intelligences?

That bar was a really rough place.  Possible, in some time(s) in the past,
robots got in there, mis-interpreted actions which a natural life form could
handle, and *really* shot up the place.

 FG> I can imagine that
 FG> happening on Earth easily enough. Asimov sort of
 FG> predicted that, and introduced his Robotic Laws.

I'm not read on Asimov.  I'll have to catch up on this.

 FG> That
 FG> senior officer's attitude toward Data when he was
 FG> briefly placed in command of a starship ever so
 FG> slightly smacks of that, too.

I remember that.  The officer was clearly in the wrong given the situations at
hand.  However, given different situations.....

I think the ST:OS episode with Professor Daystrom's M5 is a clear example of why
we need to be careful with robots.

Don

--- Maximus 3.01
 * Origin: No Regrets, Clinton, MS (601)924-8247 9P-5A (1:3632/65)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 378 of 469
 From : Don Bach                            1:3632/65       .îí 05 .âã 96 20:03
 To   : Bob Klahn
 Subj : BY FORCE OF ARMS
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 DB> Other issues which led to the creation of the CSA:  protectionist
 DB> tarifs on trade, federal subsidies for shipping and internal
 DB> improvements, free government homesteads and
 BK> federal aid for roads and
 DB> waterways.  They were fighting the
 DB> unconstitutional growth of the U.S.
 DB> government.

 BK>  I find it hard to give credibility to the idea that
 BK> anyone ever fought a war
 BK>  purely against the growth of the US Govt. They may fight one against
 BK>  specific points of growth they didn't want, but never for the pure
 BK>  principle.

 BK>  And none of this says the ultimate reason was not to protect slavery.

I had quoted what Encarta has said about it.  The was *was* against growth of
the U.S. Government.  And it was certainly to protect slavery. Lincoln's
administration was geared toward slicing apart several previous compromises, the
major ones being the Compromise of 1820 and the Compromise Measures of 1850.
But slavery wasn't the only problem.

Also, outgoing President Buchanan held the position that states could withdraw
from the union if they wished to.

Don

--- Maximus 3.01
 * Origin: No Regrets, Clinton, MS (601)924-8247 9P-5A (1:3632/65)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 379 of 469
 From : Don Bach                            1:3632/65       .îí 05 .âã 96 20:14
 To   : Frank Swarbrick
 Subj : The New Dark Shadows
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 FS> I've been watching the new Dark Shadows (from 1991, I think) on the
 FS> Sci-Fi Channel recently.  I must say, I'm *very* presently surprised.
 FS> I've never seen the original daytime version from the 60's, but I'm am
 FS> really enjoying the "new" version.  Too bad it only lasted three
 FS> months.  The cast is, in my opinion, quite good.  They make what could
 FS> be a very hokey idea really fun to watch.

If you ever watched the original series, you'd be very disappointed in the cast.
I don't have a source for this, but I think the original was broadcast live.
The camera work was a little off and the you'd see some stumbling of lines.  I
lived in Dover, Delaware for some of the time it was originally broadcast.  The
Baltimore ABC affiliate (Channel 13?) would show the previous day's episode a
half hour before the Philadelphia ABC affiliate (Channel 6) would show the
current day's episode.  Therefore, I could watch it every-other day and play
outside the opposite days.

Jonathan Frid (Barnabas) appeared on Channel 6' Sally Star's Popeyes' Theater
and showed how he could insert his vampire teeth on camera.  He had the teeth in
a little bottle.  When it came time, the camera would be on his victim.  He'd
insert the teeth behind his cape.  The camera would switch to him and he would
emerge from his cape, ready to strike.

A hit song came out of the original - "Quentin's Theme".

 FS> I just saw episode 7 tonight, and I doubt there are many more than
 FS> twelve episodes, so I'm going to be rather upset to see it end.  It
 FS> actually seems to be *going* somewhere.

I tried to watch it when it originally aired.  I don't have a lot of time to
watch TV now, so I missed a lot of episodes.  I was really pleased that they
seemed to stick to the original story arc.  However, I think they moved too slow
for the '90s prime time audience.

 FS> Anyhow, anyone else watching it?

I'm trying, but having difficulty finding the time......

Don


--- Maximus 3.01
 * Origin: No Regrets, Clinton, MS (601)924-8247 9P-5A (1:3632/65)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 380 of 469
 From : Thanatos                            1:275/160       .îí 05 .âã 96 14:38
 To   : Steven Ross
 Subj : By Force Of Arms
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE 1.11+
From astride a Pale Horse, ùANATúô heard...

 SR> Yes I have seen _Dave_, but its hardly a new plot. In WWII the
 SR> British sent an actor who was a dead-ringer for Montgomery to North
 SR> Africa  just before D-Day in order to fool the Germans.

        "I was Monty's Double"

        ...which prompted the classic Goon Show parody, "I was Monty's
        Treble" =)


From the Office of the DeathMaster General...
... I turn my hopes up to the sky.  I'd like to know before I die
---
 * Ôystertags v1.2 *
--- Smile :)
 * Origin: * The Beast's Lair * (804)498-3070 * Va Beach VA * (1:275/160)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 381 of 469
 From : Frank Swarbrick                     1:104/825       .cê 04 .âã 96 17:54
 To   : Thanatos
 Subj : Dune movie
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12  92-0022
On 07-31-96  12:35, shipwrecked and comatose, Thanatos said:


 FS> David Lynch?  The version I saw said "Directed by Alan Smithee," or
 FS> some such thing, but I'm quite sure it was Lynch if only because half
 FS> a dozen of the actors (at least) are among the ones he likes to use.
 FS> Anyhow, did he think the movie so bad as well that he took his name
 FS> off it?  I'm fairly certain that the video version I've seen at the
 FS> store says he directed it, so I guess it's just the long version he
 FS> took his name off.

 Th> Bingo!
 Th> He's allowed his name to stay on the 2-hr and 6-hour versions
 Th> only


SIX-HOUR version?????

I have a hard time imagining that one...  Although I must say the
"long version" I saw did seem either chopped up or very poorly edited.

        Frank

... No one can hear when you're Screaming in Digital!
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12
 * Origin: The Bailey Information Exchange BBS, 28.8k v.fc  (1:104/825.0)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 382 of 469
 From : Bob Klahn                           1:234/2         .cê 04 .âã 96 12:15
 To   : Steven Ross
 Subj : BY FORCE OF ARMS
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 SR>         From another standpoint, who had the moral highground during the
 SR> Spanish civil war, Franco, a Facsist military dictator, allied with the
 SR> nazies, or the revolutionaries backed by communist Russia? For that
 SR> matter what about the communist revolution in Russia, by your
 SR> standards, who had the moral high ground?

  Don't forget Cuba in the 50s. In each case the existing dictator was so
  awful the revolutionaries seemed superior. We will never know about the
  Spanish revolutionaries, as they lost. Besides, though they were backed by
  the Soviets, they may well not have tried to establish a communist
  government, or any kind of dictatorship. As of yet I am still not thourghly
  convinced Castro is worse than Batista. As bad as he is, I'm not sure he's
  worse.

BOB KLAHN   bob.klahn@toltbbs.com

... Crime has increased steadily with sales of MS-DOS.  Coincidence?
 * Silver Xpress V4.3P RB10275

--- FLAME v1.1
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Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 383 of 469
 From : Bob Klahn                           1:234/2         .cê 04 .âã 96 12:15
 To   : Frank Glover
 Subj : BY FORCE OF ARMS
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 FG>    hard to interpret any other way. Maybe some parts of Tattoine has a
 FG>    social or religious bias against artifical intelligences? I can
 FG>    imagine that happening on Earth easily enough. Asimov sort of
 FG>    predicted that, and introduced his Robotic Laws. That senior
 FG>    officer's attitude toward Data when he was briefly placed in command
 FG>    of a starship ever so slightly smacks of that, too.

 Go back to _Dune_ and their prohibition of machines built with a mind like a
 human. IOW, the Mentats existed because of a prohibition of computers. One
 part I found particularly unrealistic.

BOB KLAHN   bob.klahn@toltbbs.com

... When I was your age, we carved transistors out of wood.
 * Silver Xpress V4.3P RB10275

--- FLAME v1.1
 * Origin: Telnet toltbbs.com or call 313-854-6001, Boardwatch #55 (1:234/2)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 384 of 469
 From : Bob Klahn                           1:234/2         .cê 04 .âã 96 12:15
 To   : Darre Luallen
 Subj : SF CLUB QUESTIONS
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 From my experience with clubs, SF and otherwise.

 DL>  To start with, how often does the club meet?

 Regularity is more important than frequency, but once a month is normal,
 once a week is possible. Any less and the membership will start to drift
 away.

 DL>  What activities does the club participate in?

 Go to SF movies, show videos, *discuss the subject*, and go out to dinner.

 Don't underestimate the importance of social activities.

 DL>  Is the club sponsored in any way?  What are dues and where do they go?

 Cheap is important. I recently saw a civic group just fall apart when the
 board of directors set the dues at $60/yr.

 DL>  That's all I can think of now.  I'm sure I'll come up with others in
 DL>  future.  Thanks in advance.

 Also, don't underestimate the importance of food.

BOB KLAHN   bob.klahn@toltbbs.com

... Shin - Device for finding furniture in the dark.
 * Silver Xpress V4.3P RB10275

--- FLAME v1.1
 * Origin: Telnet toltbbs.com or call 313-854-6001, Boardwatch #55 (1:234/2)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 385 of 469
 From : Bob Klahn                           1:234/2         .cê 04 .âã 96 12:15
 To   : Owen E. Oulton
 Subj : BY FORCE OF ARMS
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 OEO> Um, not exactly.  Great Britain was (and still is) a parliamentary
 OEO> democracy with a constitutional monarchy, not a republican democracy.
 OEO> A republic and a monarchy are mutually exclusive, by definition.

 What is the difference between a republican democracy and a parliamentary
 democracy?

 Why are they exclusive? Don't forget, the democrace is real, the monarchy is
 a figurehead. It's a matter of substance and image.

BOB KLAHN   bob.klahn@toltbbs.com

... All taglines are false, including this one.
 * Silver Xpress V4.3P RB10275

--- FLAME v1.1
 * Origin: Telnet toltbbs.com or call 313-854-6001, Boardwatch #55 (1:234/2)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 386 of 469
 From : Bob Klahn                           1:234/2         .cê 04 .âã 96 12:15
 To   : David Johnston
 Subj : INDEPENDENCE DAY (BEL
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
->> BTW, why do the Americans enjoy stories about the USA being destroyed
->> or mutilated this way or that (re. the Sliders, for example)?..

 DJ> Because the possibility is remote enough to be entertaining.

 Possibly also because it's something we can relate to. The fall of the old
 republic can be entertaining with great special effects and spectacular
 battles, but the fall of the local community we can feel with nothing more
 than WW2 surplus imagery as the FX.

BOB KLAHN   bob.klahn@toltbbs.com

... Charter member, Obsolete Equipment Club of America.
 * Silver Xpress V4.3P RB10275

--- FLAME v1.1
 * Origin: Telnet toltbbs.com or call 313-854-6001, Boardwatch #55 (1:234/2)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 387 of 469
 From : Bob Klahn                           1:234/2         .îí 05 .âã 96 20:59
 To   : Steven Ross
 Subj : BY FORCE OF ARMS
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
SR>>  benifits of western society.
 SR>
BK>>  Actually, he does, he just wants a part of the benefits that don't
BK>> blow up his herd.
 SR>
 SR>         You know if it were on topic, (which it isn't) I could tell you
 SR>         a great story about the Canadian 1st Airborne, a dead looter,
 SR>         and three cammels.

 Please, somebody declare it on topic.

BK>>  I have been highly critical on those very points. Fortunately it
BK>>  happened, or started, under a republican administration.
BK>> (gratuitous shot)
 SR>
 SR>         <*Blink*> I thought you were a republican!?!

 I*thought*flaming*was*not*allowed.

 You dirty, low down, .......

 Hey, say that on the Debate echo. I'll bet you'll get the right wingers
 laughing so hard they'll all get hernias.
 ...

BK>>  politician who had a stroke. The politician had just been selected as
BK>>  prime minister of an Earth under a figurehead emporer. Turned out the
BK>>  politician was an old friend of the emporer, and the emporer spotted
BK>> the substitution immediately. He went along with it, however.

BK>>  Why do I think this was Heinlein?

 SR>         I don't know, I have a friend who could tell us when I get a
 SR>         chance to see him again.

 "Double star", six people have told me.
  ...

 SR>         Yes I have seen _Dave_, but its hardly a new plot. In WWII the
 SR> British sent an actor who was a dead-ringer for Montgomery to North
 SR> Africa just before D-Day in order to fool the Germans.

 Now that you mention it, I recall that.



BOB KLAHN   bob.klahn@toltbbs.com

... . Those were the days, my friend, we thought they'd never end....
 * Silver Xpress V4.3P RB10275

--- FLAME v1.1
 * Origin: Telnet toltbbs.com or call 313-854-6001, Boardwatch #55 (1:234/2)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 388 of 469
 From : Bob Klahn                           1:234/2         .îí 05 .âã 96 20:59
 To   : Pavel Viaznikov
 Subj : BY FORCE OF ARMS
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 PV> Hi there, Bob!

 PV> Tuesday July 30 1996 21:02, Bob Klahn wrote to Don Bach:

 DB>>> in the world who are not at war.  About the only one I can think of
 DB>>> which is stable is Castro in Cuba and we are an enemy for him,
 DB>>> possibly preventing the need for him to wage war.

 PV> - Just recently I've seen a Cuban caricature: Comrade Castro is going
 PV> to cross out President Clinton from a long list of the US Presidents
 PV> who ruled since 1959 - while Clinton, on the other side of the Caribean
 PV> sea, gives another prophesy about a sure, inevitable end of Fidel's
 PV> regime coming soon  ;)

 But...if they keep it up sooner or later they will be right.

 BK>>>> One of the major reasons for war, perhaps the major reason, is that
 BK>>>> a dictatorship must have an enemy to survive. Since a dictatorship

 ...

 PV> - The enemy is necessary, because you must have somebody who is
 PV> responcible for your mistakes and miseries.

 Correct.

 BK>>>> I don't know of any examples of two democracies going to war against
 BK>>>> each other.

 PV> - I do. There are no dictator regimes willing to declare that they are
 PV> not democratic; there are very few truly democratic regimes. Thus, a

 Calling a dictatorship a democracy doesn't make it a democracy.

 PV> Maldives war was a war between a democratic junta and a

 Well, dictatitorial junta calling itself democratic. In fact, that is a
 perfect example of the point. The Junta needed a distraction for the people
 from their suffering.

 PV> semitotalitarian democracy (ask the British if Mme.Thatcher - whom I
 PV> really respect and wish she could be our President here in Russia - was
 PV> a democratic leader).

 Excellent.

 BK>>   From the constitution of the CSA.
 BK>>  **********************************************************************
 BK>>      (4) No bill of attainder, ex post facto law, or law denying
 BK>>  or impairing the right of property in negro slaves shall be
 BK>>  passed.

 PV> -  =8-Q=

 PV> Is this really from the US Constitution?! I be damned... Stalin's
 PV> Constitution sounded _far_ more democratic...

 No, from the "Confederate States of America," not the US constitution.

 The Confederate States, the CSA, was the South in the American Civil War.

 BK>>   Anyway, utopia may be a nice place to live, but what kinda ratings
 BK>> would
 BK>>  it get?

 PV> - Thinkest thou so? In Campanella's Utopia, each citizen was supervised
 PV> by a man whose task was to check if the happy subject of the Sun State

 ...

 PV> Even the poorest and lowest ploughman had not less than three
 PV> slaves..." (C) Arcady & Boris Strugatsky, "Monday begins on Saturday"

 Somehow I suspect that might be a bit hard to find here.

 And it wouldn't sell in prime time.

BOB KLAHN   bob.klahn@toltbbs.com

... Fatal Error: You're dead.
 * Silver Xpress V4.3P RB10275

--- FLAME v1.1
 * Origin: Telnet toltbbs.com or call 313-854-6001, Boardwatch #55 (1:234/2)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 389 of 469
 From : Kevin Ahearn                        1:109/104       .òp 06 .âã 96 20:40
 To   : Bob Klahn
 Subj : BY FORCE OF ARMS
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 BK>  Go back to _Dune_ and their prohibition of machines
 BK> built with a mind like a
 BK>  human. IOW, the Mentats existed because of a
 BK> prohibition of computers. One
 BK>  part I found particularly unrealistic.

Was there a ban on ALL computers, or just artificial intelligences?  IIRC, the
law went something like, "thou shalt not make a machine in the image of a man's
mind."  That could certainly allow non-thinking number-crunchers like what we
have today.

--Kevin

--- Maximus/2 3.01
 * Origin: ShanErin (1:109/104)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 390 of 469
 From : Nicolai Shapero                     1:102/524       .îí 05 .âã 96 05:48
 To   : Lis Carey
 Subj : BY FORCE OF ARMS
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Aug 02 20:42>, Lis Carey (1:101/230) wrote to Nicolai Shapero:

NS>US and Great Britain.  The War of 1812.

 LC>Great Britain wasn't a democracy at the time; the franchise was
 LC>_extremely_ limited.

The franchise was extremely limited in the US at the time as well (women did NOT
have the vote, for one thing).  And the US allowed slavery...

Still would consider both countries democracies.

-- Nicolai Shapero, the Mad Russian Sysop of StormGate Aerie

--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 391 of 469
 From : Nicolai Shapero                     1:102/524       .îí 05 .âã 96 05:51
 To   : Lis Carey
 Subj : BY FORCE OF ARMS
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Aug 02 21:05>, Lis Carey (1:101/230) wrote to Kay Shapero:

 LC>He's not by any means a stupid man, but he IS _seriously_
 LC>ignorant of
 LC>how things work anywhere but in Iraq, and could all too easily
 LC>have
 LC>misunderstood a signal that Bush and the State Dept. thought was
 LC>_completely_ clear.

Had they told him, "if you invade Kuwait, we'll bomb the <bleep> out of you", I
do believe that he would have understood, but I don't think it would have made
much of a difference.

-- Nicolai Shapero, the Mad Russian Sysop of StormGate Aerie

--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 392 of 469
 From : Nicolai Shapero                     1:102/524       .îí 05 .âã 96 05:54
 To   : Leman Russ
 Subj : Re: Realistic space scenes
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Jul 26 01:13>, Leman Russ (1:2250/7) wrote to Nicolai Shapero:

 LR>"fuzzy logic" camcorder, is a vast improvement over anything
 LR>available 20 years ago.

"Fuzzy logic" is a gross misnomer.  Simple proportional control (and THAT'S been
around for a LONG time...).  Even fuzzy logic (as a mathematical discipline)
dates back quite a few years.

 LR> I rmember how fuzzy the moon surface pix looked, compared with
 LR>the crystal clarity of the lunar orbital shots. I'd like to see
 LR>those pix redone with modern gear, and computer enhancement.

Photographs tend to beat out video cameras because of the difference in
resolution.

-- Nicolai Shapero, the Mad Russian Sysop of StormGate Aerie

--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 393 of 469
 From : Nicolai Shapero                     1:102/524       .îí 05 .âã 96 05:56
 To   : All
 Subj : Msg 0 of 3: Rules
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
What follows is an abbreviated version of the rules for SFFAN:

Discussions of SF Fandom, Trek, Media, Who, Anime, and any literary
SF topic are "in bounds".  Related technical discussions are also
allowed, but if they go too far afield, ye moderator reserves the
right to shut down the topic at any time without further warning.
Fantasy, by the by, is on topic.  Keep the comments clean and above
the belt -- personal attacks are unacceptable (remember though, that
to attack an idea is NOT the same as attacking the holder of that
idea).

Commercial messages (anything that solicits money) are OFF TOPIC.

The moderator reserves the right to add new rules as the situation
demands.

Violators of rules may be warned in netmail, will be warned in the
echo, and are subject to suspension of SFFAN echomail priviledges
if they refuse to comply with the echo rules.  Sysops who refuse to
police their users (or themselves) on this echo are subject to
having their feeds cut without warning -- yes, I do hold sysops to
a higher standard.  A list of users and sysops on probation and
suspension is included in the detailed rules, which are posted
at roughly one month intervals.

The word of the moderator is the word of god.  Once the edict is
issued, please take any further comments and/or discussions to netmail.
This is not a democracy.  In the event of my disappearance of early
demise, my wife Kay Shapero will take my place.  If both of us
disappear without having time to appoint an heir to the echo, you
will likely have to fight it out with the FidoNet bureaucracy...

-- Nicolai Shapero, Moderator of SFFAN



--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 394 of 469
 From : Nicolai Shapero                     1:102/524       .îí 05 .âã 96 05:56
 To   : All
 Subj : Msg 1 of 3: Rules
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
                  Rules for SFFAN (Message 1 of 3)

This humble (?) individual, also  known as the moderator of the SFFAN
echo, intends that  this echo be  used for discussions of any subject
related to SF fandom. So: Trek, Who, Anime are all acceptable topics.
Of course, any literary sf topic is  obviously "in bounds".   Related
technical discussions  are also allowable, but try not to go off into
"my computer is better than your computer" arguments.  And, oh yes, I
also allow discussions of role playing games (fantasy and otherwise).
After all, RPGers are frequently sffen too!  (Just try to keep things
VAGUELY in the sf/fantasy area in your discussions, please?)  FANTASY
IS ON  TOPIC.  FANTASY IS ON TOPIC.  FANTASY IS ON TOPIC.  And what I
tell you three times is true...

Once ye olde moderator  declares a thread "off topic" PLEASE DROP THE
SUBJECT.  Take any further comments to NETMAIL.  Repeated infractions
of this rule can result in nastygrams from the Moderator...

Personal attacks are to  be kept off  the echo; but  remember that to
attack the idea is NOT the same thing as attacking the holder of that
idea. Keep things "nice" -- no obscene language, no hitting below the
belt.

I'd like people to be  a bit more careful with  the quoting functions
of their editors.  Please do NOT quote entire messages (including the
origin lines).   Quote only what is necessary.   Show a little bit of
kindness  for the sysops who have to pay to transports these messages
all over the world.

Commercial messages (anything that solicits money) are OFF TOPIC.  If
you're going to  make money on the deal, TAKE IT TO NETMAIL.  This is
not a "for sale" echo, nor is it an "investor's hotline" echo.

                     (Continued in next message)


--- msged 2.06
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Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 395 of 469
 From : Nicolai Shapero                     1:102/524       .îí 05 .âã 96 05:56
 To   : All
 Subj : Msg 2 of 3; Rules
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
                  Rules for SFFAN (Message 2 of 3)

No one  by the  name of  Arthur Werner,  Sal Devita, or  any variants
thereof is permitted  on this echo.  We do NOT need the Werner-beast,
in ANY of his incarnations, on this echo.  In keeping with the spirit
of this rule, Bob Charles  is also banned from this echo -- for life.
It is requested that no sysop  allow access to or  provide a feed for
SFFAN to this individual.

Hanah Deborah is also banned from this echo for an indefinite period,
as is Graeme Smith.

For rudeness above  and beyond the call, yet another individual joins
the "permanent invitation to the world" club: John Giannini.

If message traffic is being gated into this conference from any other
network, then each  message must show in the origin line, the FidoNet
address of the system that is doing the gating so that netmail may be
properly directed to users posting from the other network. The gating
station MUST BE LISTED IN THE FIDONET NODELIST AS AN APPROVED GATEWAY
STATION!

The first time that anyone breaks one of these or other FidoNet rules
I will try and notify them via netmail. Depending upon the infraction,
I may also post a  message in the echo. Repeated infractions may result
in the offender being banned from the echo, either for a limited time or
forever.  I do not need variants on the Werner-beast on this echo!

Sysops are held fully accountable for the actions of all users on their
BBSs.  Failure by a sysop to properly discipline a user, or failure of
a sysop to suspend access of a user on request of the Moderator may
result in loss of access to this echo.  Sysops who violate the rules of
this conference, in spirit or letter, are subject to having their feeds
cut without further warning.  I am fully prepared to go "up the line" on
this one, folks, so DO NOT PUSH YOUR LUCK.  Any sysop who starts playing
"rules lawyer" (and I think you all understand what I'm talking about)
is subject to having his feed cut without further warning.  Feed cuts
will be FOR A MINIMUM OF SIX MONTHS, WITH A MANDATORY ONE YEAR
PROBATIONARY PERIOD FOLLOWING RESTORATION OF ACCESS.  Any violation of
the rules in spirit or letter during the probationary period makes the
offending sysop subject to permanent loss of feed.

                     (Continued in next message)



--- msged 2.06
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Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 396 of 469
 From : Nicolai Shapero                     1:102/524       .îí 05 .âã 96 05:56
 To   : All
 Subj : Msg 3 of 3: Rules
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
                  Rules for SFFAN (Message 3 of 3)

In the event that I become unable to continue as moderator for SFFAN,
Kay Shapero will serve in  my stead unless  and until she  decides to
step down.  This is not a democracy.   No one gets to vote on who the
moderator will be.

High order ASCII characters (IBM graphics characters) are not allowed
in messages on this echo. They cause great grief for a lot of systems
and their use is to be avoided.

Special characters or  strings as in those  used for Postscript, TeX,
and similar page description languages are not to be used in SFFAN. I
would much prefer to see standard BBS practices followed (fake under-
score or all caps for emphasis).

These rules are  not to be taken as all inclusive.  The moderator re-
serves the right to add rules any time he deems it necessary to main-
tain the character of the echo.

For those readers  out there who think that SF fandom is just bit too
strange for words, just zip over to one of the OTHER conferences;  it
will only get weirder here.

The following people are on probation for rules violations or other
problems on the echo:

               Name                   End of Probation
            =============             =================

The following individuals have received an "invitation to the world":
They are banned from this echo until the date listed after their
names.  These are "temporary" suspensions of SFFAN echomail priviledges,
but they are total (no read or write access permitted to SFFAN -- all
sysops carrying this echo are asked to comply)

               Name                   End of Suspension
            =============             =================
         Chris Ogniben (1:2604/568)   15 September 1996
         Chris Thurman (1:141/415)     1 May       1996
          Michael Weir (1:147/61)      5 May       1996

The following is a list of STATIONS that for which the feed of SFFAN
has been ordered cut.  Such cuts are for a minimum 6 month period,
and have additional probationary periods following restoration
of service:

               Name                End of Suspension
            =============          =================

-- Nicolai Shapero, the slightly bemused sysop of StormGate Aerie
                    Moderator of the SFFAN echo.


--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 397 of 469
 From : Kay Shapero                         1:102/524       .îí 05 .âã 96 10:04
 To   : Lis Carey
 Subj : BY FORCE OF ARMS
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Aug 02 20:35>, Lis Carey (1:101/230) wrote to Kay Shapero:

 LC>But the reason the southern states wanted to leave the Union was
 LC>_because_ slavery was on the endangered list if they stayed _in_
 LC>the
 LC>Union. Even though they were still winning the political battles

True enough, they saw themselves in economic danger over it.  I was just
pointing out that the view of the Good Noble Virtuous Pure North battling the
Evil Depraved Iniquitous South to Free The Slaves is an inaccurate portrayal of
the situation.

I do consider the Emancipation Proclamation (which presumably would have been
issued the day after the Confeds fired on Ft. Sumpter if that had really been
the Union's prime objective) to be the best thing to come out of an otherwise
pretty dirty little war.  And I consider the restored Union's failure to
properly follow up on it to be one of the worst.  "Reconstruction" was handled
about as badly as it could possibly have been, and usually it was the newly
freed slaves who got caught in the gears.  It's that bloody legacy quite as much
as the legacy of slavery's existance in the first place that still causes
problems today.

Oh yes - I never said Lee was "anti-slavery".  I doubt he was.  What he
preferred philosophically was that the union stay together.  But ultimately he
chose his native state, Virginia.  Which plants him squarely on the side of
state soverignty.

Now - this discussion was over whether or not modern wars could be considered to
be between the Good Guys and the Bad Guys.  WWII comes close, but most simply do
not.  And the simplistic we=good, they=bad approach plays havoc with dealing
with everything that happens after the war.

Now let's get back on topic - how often do we see wars portrayed in SF as in
this simplistic fashion, and how often do we get the more realistic approach?

--- msged 2.06
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Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 398 of 469
 From : Kay Shapero                         1:102/524       .îí 05 .âã 96 10:02
 To   : Lis Carey
 Subj : BY FORCE OF ARMS
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Aug 02 21:05>, Lis Carey (1:101/230) wrote to Kay Shapero:

KS>Sigh... I do wonder just how far up the decision was made to give Saddam
KS>Hussein the impression he could annex Kuwait with impunity.  I suppose it
KS>*could* have been an accident, but somehow I doubt it.

 LC>It was a classic misunderstanding between western, in this case
 LC>American, diplomats who assumed a degree of sophistication on the
 LC>part

Yeah, never attribute to malice what can be ascribed to stupidity.

--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 399 of 469
 From : Roger Fingas                        1:163/215       .îí 05 .âã 96 20:59
 To   : Patrick Duda
 Subj : Space: Above and Beyond, Star Trek: Bloodlines
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
The show idea sounds interesting, but I don't know if Star Trek is the right
medium for it.
Oh, and you mentioned that none of the main characters in Space died.
Correction: Vanson did.  I certainly felt depressed about that - I liked her
character.

--- Maximus 3.01
 * Origin: BitByters BBS, Rockland ON, Can. (613)446-7773 v34, (1:163/215)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 400 of 469
 From : Todd Sullivan                       1:202/720.3     .îí 05 .âã 96 21:09
 To   : Patrick Duda
 Subj : Alien Nation
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Reports from the Interior indicate that Patrick Duda leaked the following to me,
re: Alien Nation

 PD>  Yeah, but it always makes it seem like it's cut off. I liked that one
 PD> where he was facing that one guy, and it had a cool flashback of him in
 PD> some arabian city setting. Maybe that's an option for writers once they
 PD> start losing interest in his current life. Or maybe one episode in the
 PD> future where he flashbacks to his current life in paris (??).

That would be tough, but it's possible.

 PD>  Doesn't it seem like the immortals should be a scarce breed by now,
 PD> though?

The premise of the series is that there are more Immortals than the movies
presented, and more are appearing.  Connor did the Kurgan in, but it wasn't the
end, from what Joe Dawson said in the 3rd season.

Todd Sullivan
Email: Todd.Sullivan@202-720.mx1.fidonet.org

... "Reason is immortal, all else mortal." --Pythagorus

-*- ASTG 1.9

--- Spot 1.3a Unregistered
 * Origin: Todd's Spot in the Continuum (1:202/720.3)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 401 of 469
 From : Todd Sullivan                       1:202/720.3     .îí 05 .âã 96 21:30
 To   : Leman Russ
 Subj : Klingons
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Reports from the Interior indicate that Leman Russ leaked the following to Bill
Hedrick, re: Klingons

 BH>> Qob vestai-Hurric
 BH>> XO IKV RakeHell
 BH>> DaH yImej!

 LR>  Sorry, I only speak fed standard, the REAL warriors tounge.

You're stepping on toes here, Leman.  I'd back off, if I were you, as you can't
tell the Klingons (or anyone else) without a scorecard.

And bashing isn't looked on well by the Moderator.

 LR> "Let the die!" Captain Kirks best idea.

Another Bircher, I see.  Can't spell or punctuate.

Todd Sullivan
Email: Todd.Sullivan@202-720.mx1.fidonet.org

... Anyone who thinks there can be such a thing as a fair fight hasn't
     been in a fight of any kind.

-*- ASTG 1.9

--- Spot 1.3a Unregistered
 * Origin: Todd's Spot in the Continuum (1:202/720.3)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 402 of 469
 From : Todd Sullivan                       1:202/720.3     .îí 05 .âã 96 21:34
 To   : Carson Chittom
 Subj : Cancelled
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Reports from the Interior indicate that Carson Chittom leaked the following to
me, re: Cancelled

 TS>> Last I heard (on Nova), the detectors weren't sensitive
 TS>> enough, until the supernova in 1987 (SN-1987a), IIRC.

 CC>         What star went supernova?  I don't remember that; of course, I
 CC> turned seven in '87....

I don't remember, but it was visible in the Southern hemisphere.

Here it is:  From Dynamic Astronomy, 5th Edition, pp. 369.

Name:  Sanduleak -96 deg. 202, a blue supergiant in the Large Magellanic Cloud.
It also states that a two-second burst of approx. 3 x 10^17 neutrinos passed
through the detectors, but only 8 interacted.

Also, I don't recall hearing if there is/was a way to detect the anti-neutrinos
that are produced through nuclear processes.

Todd Sullivan
Email: Todd.Sullivan@202-720.mx1.fidonet.org

... "I'm Bart Simpson.  Who the hell are you?"

-*- ASTG 1.9

--- Spot 1.3a Unregistered
 * Origin: Todd's Spot in the Continuum (1:202/720.3)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 403 of 469
 From : Frank Glover                        1:2613/477      .òp 06 .âã 96 22:48
 To   : Don Bach
 Subj : Re: BY FORCE OF ARMS
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

DB>   FG> I can imagine that
DB>   FG> happening on Earth easily enough. Asimov sort of
DB>   FG> predicted that, and introduced his Robotic Laws.
DB>
DB>  I'm not read on Asimov.  I'll have to catch up on this.

   Asimov created this as a counter to so many previous stories with robots that
were of the `Frankenstein' sort, where themachine invariably turnedon, and
desroyed its creators/masters. Usually with a `man must not play God' moral.

   The laws state:

   1. A robot may not harm a human, or through inaction, allow a human to come
to harm.

   2. A robot must obey all orders given it by humans, except where this
conflicts with the first law.

   3. A robot must protect its own exiestence, except wherethis conflicts with
the first or second laws.

   Asimov wrote numerouus robot-oriented stories, staying within that logical
framework. I recommend starting with the `I, Robot' anthology, if you're
interested.

   Frank


--- QuickBBS 2.81 GoldBase (Zeta-2.0)
 * Origin: The Matrix Data Bank BBS, Rochester, Ny (1:2613/477)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 404 of 469
 From : Patrick Duda                        1:218/801       .òp 06 .âã 96 14:32
 To   : Jeff Hancock
 Subj : Macross 7
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12  91-0018

-> PD>   I've been seeing a lot of buzz on this new Macross 7 series thi
-> PD>on the web lately. I'm SERIOUSLY interested in it.
->
-> What sort of buzz?

 Music, pix, lots of server space devoted to it. Discussion on the
newsgroups. The new Shoduka stuff a lot of the anime pages are routed
through now is really ticking me off, though. It plays havoc with my
streaming plug-ins.

-> I believe the Sentinels are a U.S. creation, so they don't "count".

 Well, by the look of them they are. It was okay, for the time.

-> DP>Macross: Do you Remember Love the movie made in the Macross
-> DP>world of the "real" events in the TV show.

 Didn't like that movie. Thought it was rather a waste of time. Oh well.
The english version (dubbed) is a total mess. :( What about Macross:the
movie? Was that DYRL? At least that's what it was called at the cons a
few years back. I never fifured that one out.

--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12
 * Origin: Star Tech Diamond Bar, CA 909-396-4227 714-257-1175  (1:218/801.0)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 405 of 469
 From : Patrick Duda                        1:218/801       .òp 06 .âã 96 16:54
 To   : Jeff Hancock
 Subj : Japanese SF
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12  91-0018
 * Crazy-J * "On behalf of hunney,I will puni--oh, bother."-SailorPooh

  Did you (or anyone else) hear about the SOS movement? (save our scouts)
   Appears This september it's going off the air. There is a web site where
   you can get info on badgering the TV guys to keep it on and to make more
   subbed episodes!
---
 * MikeMayl v1.0 * Everyone is Invited!

--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12
 * Origin: Star Tech Diamond Bar, CA 909-396-4227 714-257-1175  (1:218/801.0)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 406 of 469
 From : Lis Carey                           1:101/230       .cê 04 .âã 96 07:55
 To   : Bob Klahn
 Subj : BY FORCE OF ARMS
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
BK>->> BK>> I don't know of any examples of two democracies going to war
BK>->> BK>>against each BK>> other.
BK>->> NS> US and Great Britain.  The War of 1812.
BK>->> Wasn't the King still holding power then, rather than the figurehead
BK>->> the soveriegn is today. Wasn't it a real monarchy rather than a
BK>->> titular one?

BK> DJ> Iffy.  But then again, when one takes slaves and women into account, th
BK> DJ> U.S. wasn't much of a democracy either.

BK> The slaves especially, but I consider the process of freeing the slaves,
BK> giving women the vote, etc, part of the process of becoming a real
BK> democracy.

BK> Shouldn't forget the rules restricting the vote to land owners, either. Onl
BK> I don't know if there ever were any such restrictions in the US to any
BK> extent.

Initially [right after the Revolution], most states had some kind of
property requirement, but it was significantly lower than in Great
Britain, was never any outright requirement of _land_ ownership, AND,
acquiring property was much easier in the fledgeling USA than anywhere
in Europe, because the adventurous and the determined could simply move
to the frontier.

Over time, the property requirements were steadily lowered. By the time
of the War of 1812, some states already had universal [white] manhood
suffrage; by the late 1830s, six northern states also allowed blacks to
vote.

Property requirements for voting _tended_ to be higher in the southern
states, but even there, they were lower than in Britain and got lower
over time.

But part of the difference was not in the laws, but in the assumptions:
in the USA, the assumption was that, basically, government was the
concern of everyone, even if some people couldn't quite manage the
requirements for voting; in Britain, the assumption was that government
was the proper concern only of the "better" classes of people. This
assumption didn't begin to be seriously attacked until the Chartist
movement, some time _after_ the end of the Napoleonic Wars [to which the
War of 1812 was a footnote.]

 * OLX 2.1 TD * All hope abandon, ye who enter messages here.

--- FLAME v1.0
 * Origin: Withouta Net - Drop In Anytime! - 617/846-5416 (1:101/230)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 407 of 469
 From : Nicolai Shapero                     1:102/524       .òp 06 .âã 96 11:04
 To   : GERRY NORMANDEAU
 Subj : Flipping the Cordwainer B
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Aug 03 16:39>, GERRY NORMANDEAU (1:243/95) wrote to KAY SHAPERO:

 GN>_________________________________________________________________
 GN>_______
 GN>|  _______    |                   GERRY NORMANDEAU
 GN>|
 GN>|  []    |    |   cn754@freenet.carleton.ca / Vanier, Ontario,
 GN>CANADA  |
 GN>|  []    O
 GN>|~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~|
 GN>|  []   /|\   |Royal Hangman To His Majesty King Bruno The
 GN>Questionable|
 GN>|  []   / \
 GN>|~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~|
 GN>|  []         |        "ALWAYS ROOM FOR ONE MORE, ME'LORD!"
 GN>|
 GN>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
 GN>~~~~~~~
 GN>... AD&D FLW: "Why are you pointing behind me?"

Such multiline signatures may be the rule on Usenet, but here on FidoNet they
are discouraged.  In this conference, they are very specifically against the
rules.  Please drop the multiline signature in future.

Thank you for your cooperation,

-- Nicolai Shapero, Moderator of the SFFAN echo

--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 408 of 469
 From : David Johnston                      1:348/402       .pä 07 .âã 96 09:42
 To   : Kay Shapero
 Subj : Independence Day (belated
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE 1.11+
.NOTE: IceEdit 1.40 21141
HI Kay
You dont know me,you may know of my name,David Johnston,but I am not the davit
johnston you have been writting to,your mail has made it all the way to
Winnipeg,manitoba....:)
I have just joined this board,and was wondering why I was getting mail,if there
was some way to chat with you without the messages getting crossed I would like
to chat,but I do not want to interfere with your friend that you chat with,so I
will close for now....
If you can chat tell me a little about yourself where you live what you do
etc.... I have never chatted to anyone in the states before....
Bye
David

... Friends: People who dislike the same people we do.
--- GEcho/386 1.11+
 * Origin: * Cobalt's Haven * Winnipeg * 204-832-9603 * OS/2-FD-RA * (1:348/402)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 409 of 469
 From : Patrick Duda                        1:218/801       .pä 07 .âã 96 09:15
 To   : Roger Fingas
 Subj : Space: Above and Beyond,
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12  91-0018

-> The show idea sounds interesting, but I don't know if Star Trek is th
-> right medium for it.
-> Oh, and you mentioned that none of the main characters in Space died.
-> Correction: Vanson did.  I certainly felt depressed about that - I li
-> her character.

  Hmmm. Know any producers?

    I know just about everyone died at the end of SAAB, (in one of the
most thrown-toegether-looking endings ever). Isn't vanson that real
tough one? Didn't she die with the other female pilot in the transport?
I don't know their names well. Was this mid-season or something?

--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12
 * Origin: Star Tech Diamond Bar, CA 909-396-4227 714-257-1175  (1:218/801.0)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 410 of 469
 From : Henry Triplett                      1:106/564       .òp 06 .âã 96 11:50
 To   : KAY SHAPERO
 Subj : Independence Day (belated
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

-=> Quoting Kay Shapero to David Johnston <=-

 KS> (And then there was the time there was a tv movie about a comet
 KS> smacking into  Phoenix Arizona.  It was aired a few weeks after the
 KS> Phoenix Worldcon, and a  group of local fen who'd gone got together
 KS> just for the fun of watching the  Adams Hotel get slagged... :->)

I remember that movie!  I saw it just weeks after making a round-trip
between El Paso and Los Angeles.  On the trip, my van broke down in
Phoenix on *both* legs of the trip.  Did I mention that this was in
the heat of summer?  And that I had to make my own repairs?

Needless to say, that movie provided me a great deal of enjoyment!
<evil grin>

Henry


... "We really shook the pillars of Heaven, didn't we?" --Jack Burton

___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20 [NR]
--- GEcho 1.00
 * Origin: Eat Flaming Death    Houston Texas    713-447-1927 (1:106/564)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 411 of 469
 From : Henry Triplett                      1:106/564       .pä 07 .âã 96 14:16
 To   : PATRICK DUDA
 Subj : Japanese SF
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 * Reply to msg originally in FIDO-SFF

 PD> Did you (or anyone else) hear about the SOS movement? (save our
 PD> scouts) Appears This september it's going off the air. There is a
 PD> web site where you can get info on badgering the TV guys to keep it
 PD> on and to make more subbed episodes!

Sounds good!  I don't currently have web access, though.  Do you know of
a snail mail address that one can write to?  I was dubious when I first
heard of Sailor Moon, but it seems to be something that grows on you with
time.

Henry

... "You're no match for *me*, Sailor Brats!" - Zoiscite

___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20 [NR]
--- GEcho 1.00
 * Origin: Eat Flaming Death    Houston Texas    713-447-1927 (1:106/564)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 412 of 469
 From : Glenn Shaheen                       1:3600/7        .îí 05 .âã 96 13:05
 To   : Nicolai Shapero
 Subj : 1984 flick
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

NS>Which one?  I've seen two different versions, myself.  Both fairly true t
NS>the book (grim, but well done).

        I was only aware of one. I'll check them out, then. Thanks.
-=-
 * OLX 2.2 * Subject: Homo Sapiens Barely Human: What the Hell?

--- SLMAIL v3.5C  (#1540)
 * Origin: Robotech  -=-Fansubbed anime available upon request-=- (1:3600/7)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 413 of 469
 From : Dean Sweatman                       1:396/89        .òp 06 .âã 96 00:43
 To   : All
 Subj : c-c-c '96
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Con-report Crescent City Con Aug 2-4 1996

The standard disclaimer applies ... "I don't go to a con for
Guests, Films\Video, to Dance, Party Hearty, get laid or go
to the dealers room.  I go for the sharing and renewing the
fannish spirit with other fen through conversation and
communion."

Well some 60+ hours have now passed since the 11th Crescent City
Con opened it's doors and they are at last putting that puppy
to bed. The Dead Dog Party with discussions of what went
right and what things could have been done better should be
going on as I sit here composing these thoughts.  I saw very
little that the con-com could have done something about which
crossed the line to be declared "wrong" this year. The losses
that occurred during the dance on Saturday night coming close but
since the beeper and wallet with credit cards and licenses
along with the "knapsack" they had been left in were later
recovered and returned to the owner this incident came to a
desirable close.  The loss of the cash and some other personal
items was regrettable but, luckily, not to great.

My own assessment that Crescent City Con was a solid #2 for this
year's con scene is a very biased opinion and only based upon the
fact that a gathering of old NOSFAns in the Bar at NOSF3 back in
June was not equaled at C-C-C even with some of extra special
happenings that this event produced.  While It is true that some
of those same NOSFAns returned for C-C-C to join in with other
former members the timing or local just was not such that the
Magic worked again this time<sigh>.  Still it was good to see
Albert Hoffman, Guy Lillian and a few others of those active
during the good old days<g>.

In my measurement, This year's C-C-C stands out over those that
have come before, even the total extravaganza that was produced
last year.  Yes, even better than meeting (and garbing a few
quick smokes with) Michael O'hara and the other guests, Meeting a
wonderfully delightful Fem-fan, or any of the other highlights
of last years event.  It was better because I got to talk to
many more interesting and diverse people than I have in the past.

I saw and spoke with Dr Jack Stocker, Mike Todd, Number Six, Zane
& Grace Melder (Edge Books), Jo & Lonnie Peshek, Al Hoffman (with
the lovely Cat), Guy H Lillian III, Tom Feller (with the lovely
Anita), Uncle Jack, The Disk Doctor, Frank Schiavo (with the
lovely Julie), The Lovely Babs, Neils Ericson, The Lovely
Annette, The Lovely Pat (who I had just met at the resent P/P
Dance some 3 weeks prior to the con), Roy LeBlanc (Sadly sans
Tambra), The Very Lovely STORM, Robert Neagel (with the lovely
Anne), Gus & Monica Michel, Steve & Rebecca Rush, Joe Gilliam
(with the lovely
Dena), Ironwolf Odinson, Harry & Marilyn Alm, and many more who
in many cases were old friends that should toss me over the side
of
the bridge for leaving their names off a list that would rival
some sections of the Bible<g>.  My usual subject of discussion
of Fiawol (both the Sub and BBS) and the poor state of New
Orleans Fandom was replaced by tales of New Orleans Fannish Lore
and grousing over many of the resent aspects that have forced
their way in from the mundane side of life.  In all I probably
bored more people
during this 2 & 1/4 days than I have in many moons<g>.  It is a
shame that there were a number of local fen that were not able
to attend for various reasons that were missed by many of the
attending membership ... mayhaps next year.

The con started out as a quite affair (but as always that did
not last long) at noon on Friday with a steady building of
events to an elevator grid-locking peak on Saturday night and
subsiding at the close to a whimper as the skies shed tears of
rain at the passing of such a excellent fannish event.

The elevator problems on Saturday evening trapped one small group
of fen and hotel guests between the 1st and 2nd floors for a
while. This was resolved in short order while the slowness and
lack of space on the remaining cars backed up into 1/2 hour (or
longer) waits for transport to the upper floors with many fen
remarking that there must have been teleporters on the 10th floor
beaming the
cars back to the 2nd or 1st since the 3rd thru 6th (those floors
I can speak for from experience) saw very few cars going back
down in relations to those that would stop in their upward
trek.  The hotel had to finally request that the cars be limited
to 5 adults (about 1000/1200 lbs) per trip so that the overload
sensors were not tripped and cars refused to move or bypass those
awaiting transport on the upper floors.  The elevator problem was
aggravated by the fact the there are no stairs in the hotel (only
the outside fire escape which had automatic locking doors on
each floor so that once exiting the building one had to go to
the ground floor or bang on the doors until some one from the
inside opened up).  I found this strange since the membership
numbers were lower than last year's extravaganza and I do not
remember having such a problem at that time.  Perhaps there was
more vertical movement this year than last or the loss of one car
caused to much overload on the remaining 2 cars to with-stand the
hoards.

I was reminded of the same type of problems that took place at
the 1969 St.Louis World-Con.  I can remember putting Ann Wilson
on one of the elevators to ride back to the first floor so that
she could ride to the 15th (IIRC) while I climbed the 10 floors
of stairs in between.  Sad to say I beat the elevator and was
standing outside the door finishing a smoke when she finally
arrived. So in all, this is a problem that has plagued many cons
and C-C-C weathered the storm as well as most others have in the
past.

The highlight of the con was the Saturday evening Deep South Con
'97 Party hosted by Tom Feller and the Lovely Anita.  I wandered
into the same about 7 pm after a couple of Marguerites in the bar
with Lonnie Peshek and The Lovely Babs to get into a series of
wonderful conversations with Tom, Guy Lillian, Dr Stocker and
a host of others.  Sadly the group broke up a bit after 10pm so
that Tom and Anita could join in the fun down on the dance floor.

Another high-point of the con was the REAL FOOD available in the
hospitality suite (co-inhabiting the old C R Champs bar on the
first floor with the Gaming room).  With veggies and fruit
(supplied by donation of the French Market Corp) and Chicken
Creole, and other good eats (supplied by donation of the New
Orleans Cooking School) added to the usual fare one need not
leave the hotel to find sustenance.  Rebecca Rush and crew did a
swell job in maintaining the supplies and keeping not only the
gamers but the rest of the membership of the con filled to the
brim (yes they even had coffee available {You know the black
stuff that you have to have a pair of sizzors to cut after you
pour it in a cup<g>}).

The Lovely Mary Hanson Roberts (creator of the Fiawol Logo,
Artist, Fem-fan, and lovely lady) had a dozen or so illos at the
art show though her body remained in the fair state of Florida
having forsaken the outdoors during the summer's heat.  Her work
was just a small part of the whole that displayed an impressive
degree of quality art in both a drawing and cast form.  The
castings numbered about 25% of the work on display and make one
pause to wonder if the art show is going into the same slump
that the hucksters room fell into in the '60s and beyond.  The
large numbers of prints and now castings seem to have replaced
the old days of buying original works of an artist of the likes
of Morris Scott Dollans, Dany Frolich, Nancy Mayberry, or other
talented locals.  A shame ...

I hate to say it but I missed Jake Kreiger's anima room at the
con.  I never did find the room at all.  In the delight of
running
my mouth I forgot to look for it<sheepish grin>. I also missed
the KOTE, Fusion Video, NOWFF, Adric's & Babylon - 504 Video
rooms (see the first paragraph of this report<g>).  There were a
couple of movies had I gotten bored that I would have liked to
have caught (Earth Girls Are Easy was one) but Luck was with me
this year<g>.

The missing guests ... What can I say?  I didn't miss em at all
(see the first paragraph of this report<g>) but it would have
been nice if the other fen that expected them to be there had not
been disappointed.

The ban (official or not) seems to be off on the room parties
this year.  Nosf3 and C-C-C both had the more sedate (DSC '97)
and free wheeling (B-504 and others) parties to offer.  This
coming after the 1995 Coast-Con and Lone Star Con parties were
"dry".  It
is good to see that the old ways (mayhaps the Best ways<g>) have
a way of returning when they are needed.

Overall it was a good con, A Very Good Con though somewhat under
supported by local fandom this year.  Attendance including
Dealers, Dance/Evening, one day, and general memberships was
reported at a little above 600 on Sunday. Nosff3 had about 800
just 5 weeks before suggesting that a tad more time be left
between the two to allow for re-couping of funds.  I made NOSF3
on a bit less than $100.00 and C-C-C on a bit less than 70.00
(including a batch of comics that Galactic Goods was holding for
me) so neither con was to outlandish this year.

Fiawol


















--- FMail/386 1.02
 * Origin: The Black Boar Inn BBS NOLA (504)-482-6583 28.8 V.34 (1:396/89)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 414 of 469
 From : James Walton                        1:129/260       .òp 06 .âã 96 20:57
 To   : Bob Klahn
 Subj : SF CLUB QUESTIONS
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Re Club Dues:

 BK>  Cheap is important. I recently saw a civic group just fall
 BK> apart when the  board of directors set the dues at $60/yr.

Yes, I've seen this too.  Some clubs have gone to time payments, that is, giving
the members 6 months or so to pay the complete dues.  This works much better,
altough the treasurer much work much harder.

---
 * Origin: Up in James' Attic, (412)-431-2891,  (1:129/260)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 415 of 469
 From : Darre LuAllen                       1:3637/1        .òp 06 .âã 96 08:20
 To   : Jeff Hancock
 Subj : Japanese SF
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 On 07-31-96 Jeff Hancock wrote to Darre Luallen...

 LR> Beisdes GitS I could recomend Gall Force ifthe dubbed version is
 JH> That one seems to be popular.  Must be the babes. ;)
 DL> Pro'ly.

 JH> Anime does tend to have a profusion of them, but usually there are at
 JH> least some supporting male characters if it's not based on 'em.  You'd
 JH> tend to think that men might be a little paranoid about a future where
 JH> there weren't any, but apparently they don't worry about that.

 The Japanese love stories about heroic and sexy women.  <This broad and
 sweeping generalization brought to you by the Council for
 Oversimplification, Minipax>

 DL> Several examples come to mind.  One such parady had Captain Harlock
 DL>going against the Falcon and Deathstar.  Another used the tapes from
 DL>the kiddie books and action figures.  This one wasn't so much a

 JH> I've heard of those, but haven't seen any traders offer them.

 I've only seen them at cons, and then only in the video rooms.  I'd say
 yu just have to know somebody who has them.

 DL>make music videos out of SF shows.  My favorite was the one to

 DL>Kansas' "Fight Fire with Fire" using Kirk and Khan scenes from STII

 JH> Now that I'd like to see.

 I wish I could send you a copy.  Unfortunately, I watched a friend's
 copies.  I've not seen that friend in a few years now.

 JH> The one I want to see is the fan parody "Dirty Pair Does
 JH>Dishes"... <g>

 DL> Does this exist in reality or just as an extension of your own
 DL> warped imagination?

 JH> I don't *know* that it exists, but a tape trader is *offering*
 JH> something by that name. ;)  Although I'm not entirely happy with
 JH> the guy's policies/pricing, I'll probably end up requesting it unless
 JH> I see it somewhere else first.

 Weird.  Let me know if you decide to get it.  I'd love to know what
 it's about.

 JH> I also found someone who has a great deal of fanmade anime music
 JH> videos, although a lot of them are 4th-5th generation.
 JH> Nevertheless I'd like to see what they did with Weird Al's
 JH> "Slime Creatures from Outer Space".

 Weirder still.  I don't know if my mind could handle to horror. <g>
___
 * OFFLINE 1.56 * "Never underestimate the poor taste of the American public" -
P.T. Barnum

--- Maximus/2 3.01
 * Origin: Cumberland BBS -TN- V34 (1:3637/1)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 416 of 469
 From : Darre LuAllen                       1:3637/1        .òp 06 .âã 96 09:03
 To   : Jeff Hancock
 Subj : Japanese SF
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 On 07-31-96 Jeff Hancock wrote to Darre Luallen...

 LR> Project A-ko is one long in joke for anime fhans. Among the ones
 DL> The version I heard is that "ko" is Japanese for girl.  Therefore,
 DL> the stars were "A girl", "B girl" and "C girl".

 JH> Oh, right, I had forgotten about that.  Actually, I think it's "child",
 JH> although not generally meant in a derogatory way.  Calling someone
 JH> "John-ko" would be the equivalent of "Master John", as opposed to
 JH> "John-san" as "Mr. John".

 Also explains the word Kohi (sp) used in _Rising Sun_.  The Kohi was
 the junior man.  Unfortunately, this is where you loose me, as my
 Japanese is practically non existant.  Although I spent a year in Japan,
 Okinawa actually, I didn't manage to pick much up.  I do think I
 developed an ear for it.

 JH> And, there's at least one pun there, as "Aiko" is a legitimate

 JH> Japanese name, which sounds like "A-ko"; not to mention the
 JH> whole "plot outline" feel of it, "Girl A fights with B over C".

 Perhaps they were in such a hurry that they went from the pitch
 straight to final draft.

 JH> I've been kind of wondering what Aino Minako's (from Sailor Moon) name
 JH> breaks down to.  There are at least three different kanji symbols

 <clip, snip and shear>

 JH> says and it's subtitled that way.  But that comes out to "Love's
 JH> Everyone-Child", which doesn't sound right.  Everyone's love-child?
 JH> Love child of everyone?  Everyone's child of love?

 Perhaps "Child who loves everyone".  As for understanding kanji symbols,
 you've completely lost me.  I can usually tell the Japanese characters
 from Chinese or Korean.  Other than that, forget it.

 BTW, I managed to delete the list of fansubs you sent me.  I appologize.
 If you send me your address, I do remember one or two that you had.  I
 also mentioned that you had fansubs and a friend (another anime fan)
 went crazy.  Leads me to another question.  How loose lipped do you want
 me to be?  I know several people around here who are anime fans.  Many
 don't have access to FIDO or the Net.  Basically, do I tell others?
___
 * OFFLINE 1.56 * Sister Mary Middle Line Backer of the Holy Right Cross

--- Maximus/2 3.01
 * Origin: Cumberland BBS -TN- V34 (1:3637/1)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 417 of 469
 From : Darre LuAllen                       1:3637/1        .òp 06 .âã 96 09:23
 To   : Don Bach
 Subj : B5 Renewed
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 On 08-01-96 Don Bach wrote to Darre LuAllen...

 DL>  Now, one is dropping it because WB has
 DL>  decided to pull it from any station without Nielsson rating
 DL>  capability.  The station is a WB affiliate.

 DB> This is really a shame.  What is WB thinking about?  How
 DB> does it expect its stations to *gain* rating capability?

 It's a station in the middle of nowhere (Tennessee, same thing).
 That doesn't make it any less of a pain in the rear.

 DL>  The other station is a big "Trek"
 DL>  station.  I think either the owner or program director is an SF fan.
 DL>  However, they have moved B5 to Sunday nights.  They
 DL>  are a FOX affiliate,
 DL>  so those of us who tape B5 are in trouble when football season
 DL>  starts.

 DB> Our Fox affiliate is a big Trek station, from even before
 DB> Fox came into being.  However, they lost out on ST:G for

                                                     ^^^^

 DB> some reason.  Every night at 10:30 they show either ST:TNG
 DB> or ST:DS9 (past my bedtime).

 If your mean Voyager, then all stations that weren't UPN affiliates
 missed out on it.  TPTB decided to use Voyager as the flagship of the
 new network.  Fitting, considering that the writers can't seem to find
 a formula that works, while the network is suffering the same fate.

 DL>  Perhaps you can talk to someone from staff and try to
 DL> work something out.
 DL>  A decent guest list will draw people from all over.  I've been

 DB> The cons were co-sponsored by our local Fox affiliate and I
 DB> think they may have backed off.

 A shame.  Many cons have died through the years because backers
 got cold feet.

 DB> We didn't have a no-show,
 DB> but to have someone now show in this area surely would kill
 DB> it for the next year.

 You're right.  However, if you start small, with guests you know will
 show, then you'd be able to build on that.  That's not to say you can't
 jump in with both feet.

 DL>  Depending upon what type of fans
 DL>  you have in the area, a sub-genre or all-around would be best. Just
 DL>  try to keep the overhead down.

 DB> Perhaps the all-around would work better, now that we have
 DB> B5 on the air.  I haven't priced the conference facilities,
 DB> but the last one was attempted at our state-run Trade Mart.
 DB>  It is a very stark building, but just across the street
 DB> from about 3 hotels.  Possibly a total hotel setting would
 DB> work better.

 For those fans who like to drink and party or those who "con 'til they
 drop", the total hotel setting works well.  Not so far to have go while
 out of gas.  It also helps keep an intimate atmosphere.  Some costumers
 are also unhappy about moving between buildings, as many costumes are
 made for limited wear.  I also understand that a cold breath can be bad
 when wearing a chain mail bikini.


 DB> affiliate.  I sure wish the Sci-Fi Channel would pick up ST
 DB> and B5.

 DL>  I don't.  I'd never get to see them.  Our cable system here won't
 DL>  expand for any reason.  Yet, we pay more than anyone else in the area.

 DB> Our cable system doesn't either.  We have Primestar.  If
 DB> you are on the high end of the cable fee spectrum, they
 DB> would probably be competitive (or one of the other digital
 DB> satellite services).

 I've thought about it.  Since I rent an apartment, it might not be a
 good idea.  If only I could convince the landlord to get the set up for
 the entire apartment complex.  He could charge more rent.  That'd make
 him happy.
___
 * OFFLINE 1.56 * I believe the technical term is OOPS!

--- Maximus/2 3.01
 * Origin: Cumberland BBS -TN- V34 (1:3637/1)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 418 of 469
 From : John Aldrich                        1:362/669       .îí 05 .âã 96 12:37
 To   : Wayne Crow
 Subj : Trek Con in Birmingham?
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Hello Wayne!

Saturday July 27 1996 12:45, Wayne Crow wrote to John Aldrich:

 WC>   There's going to be one at the Marshal Space flight Center in
 WC> Huntsville. But as far as I know they're not going to be one in B'ham.
 WC> I'll check though and let you know..

Yep..I think that's the one. TV Guide had a whole writeup on it...part of Trek's
50th anniversary or something like that. Gonna have a whole buncha folks there
from various series, I think...
        John
 {dungeon@dngnbbs.com}

... "Just another peacefull breakfast, huh?" - Azaka
--- GoldED/386 2.50+ 91LM1
 * Origin: The Dungeon BBS 28.8/V.34 24-hours 423/875-4137 (1:362/669)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 419 of 469
 From : Pavel Viaznikov                     2:5020/185.9    .òp 06 .âã 96 06:50
 To   : Carson Chittom
 Subj : By Force Of Arms
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Hi there, Carson!

Saturday August 03 1996 14:41, Carson Chittom wrote to Kay Shapero:

 CC> I heard Kay Shapero yelling to David Johnston about "By Force Of
 CC> Arms," so I decided honour them with my thougts.

 DJ>> OF COURSE they did!  Dictatorships ALWAYS try to enlist religion
 DJ>> to solidify control.
 KS>> How about the late Soviet Union?  Unless, of course, you
 KS>> want to classify Communism as a religion.
 CC>         From what I've heard of the indoctrination drilled into the people
 CC> of Soviet Russia, it seems to be almost a religion.  Not quite so bad as
 CC> _1984_, of course.

- From what I've heard (and experienced)  ;-)  about it, communism indeed _was_
(and, you know, _is_) a religion, complete with theology, rites, initiation of
youth, catechism, temples, sacred objects and shrines, even inquisition ets.

But at the same time, Joseph Stalin, who used to destroy churches and temples of
old, competing religions (just as all religions did whe young - Islam,
Christianity of all kinds, Shinto and even peaseful Buddism like before Ashoka),
- the selfsame Stalin, when he needed to urge patriotic feelings during the Nazi
invasion, started making gestures toward the Russian Orthodox church. A bit more
freedom was given to it, it was not incommon for the priests to bless the Soviet
arms, the Church donated money for fighter planes and tanks which were named
like "St.Prince (!) Alexander of Neva" or "St.Prince Dimirty of Don" (both
saints - medieval Russian princes, famous military leaders). Other religions,
too, had less pressure while Uncle Joe needed their support.
An interesting point: when Stalin turned to the nation with his famous speech
about the invasion, he addressed the people not as "Comrades", as usual, but as
"Brothers and Sisters" - as if he was speaking from the church ambo...

So everything's right. BTW, our Peter the Great, when he started to "tighten the
bolts" in his newly built Empire, replaced the Patriarch of the Russian Orthodox
Church with the Holy Sinode - actually, one of the departments, like those for
defence or foreign relations, and ordered the priests to report on any
anty-government activities of which they learned through the believers'
confessions (supposedly most private and secret).

                                     With best regards, Pavel

.  .  .  .  .

pLEaSe eXcuSE mY UnEVen haNDRitINg_-

---
 * Origin:   Merry Christmas! (C) Herod the King   (2:5020/185.9)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 420 of 469
 From : Todd Sullivan                       1:202/720.3     .òp 06 .âã 96 18:40
 To   : Tracy Klein
 Subj : Environmental Issues
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Reports from the Interior indicate that Tracy Klein leaked the following to All,
re: Environmental Issues

 TK> All of you, lay off the envrionmental issues. This is a sci fi fan
 TK> area,
 TK> not some stupid envrionemental conference. If you want to stick with
 TK> that garbage, go join a conference that deals with it instead of always
 TK> squawking about it here.
 TK> Enough of that envrionmental garbage here, allright!!!

And just who died and left you Moderator, Missy?

Todd Sullivan
Email: Todd.Sullivan@202-720.mx1.fidonet.org

... "Finish it, Highlander!"

-*- ASTG 1.9

--- Spot 1.3a Unregistered
 * Origin: Todd's Spot in the Continuum (1:202/720.3)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 421 of 469
 From : Jeff Hancock                        1:3600/7        .òp 06 .âã 96 17:38
 To   : Patrick Duda
 Subj : Gundam 0083...
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
First off, I'd like to say that I re-viewed the first episode, and I
think some of my criticisms were a bit too harsh, due to imperfect
memory.  For example, the Albion _did_ have security that visitors had
to go through, although obviously it wasn't up to making sure that all
visitors had records of being on-base.  ;)

And I'm curious to know if you know anything about the "Minoskvy
particles" (spelling is probably wrong).  When under attack, the captain
of the Albion tells them to "release the Minoskvy particles", and that
somehow foils the bombardment, but later they can't track the Zions
because of those particles.  It sounds to me as though whatever they
actually are, they function as a kind of futuristic chaff to confuse and
foil sensor systems.  I don't see quite how they'd knock out your
standard radar, thermal, sonic, and all other conventional means of
detecting and tracking objects, but apparently they must.

PD> JH> Ho-kay.  First, the 0083 refers to the year, and was prefaced by
PD> JH>"U.C.". I have no idea what this might stand for.  There is also
PD>     Universal time.

Universal in what sense?  What's the base of reference?

PD> JH> (both of these are Original Video Animations - OVAs), but the
PD>    Do you mean OAV's?

OVA, OAV, whatever.  I see it written both ways all the time, and if
there's a technical difference, I don't know what it is.  As far as I
know, they're the same thing, animated productions released directly to
video rather than broadcast in a theater or on TV.

PD> JH> The intro theme, which started with the second ep, is pretty
PD>     A lot of the newer anime's have good music.

What do you mean by newer?  Gundam 0083 was apparently made in 1990...
and the Dirty Pair TV series was made sometime in the 80s and I happen
to think "Russian Roulette" is a pretty darn kickin' tune. <g>

PD>    I still dislike the mecha designs of the whole Gundam series. Now

Anything in particular you find wrong with them?  They're a bit
stylistic, but they haven't seemed like they were poorly designed for
what they do.  I don't think.

PD>for AWESOME mecha, take a gander at Macross 7, which also has the
PD>best dang music ever.

If I see it, I'll check it out.  I've always had a soft spot for the
original Macross Veritech fighters.

PD> JH>_Babylon 5_, or otherwise had any notion to provide armored
PD> JH>protection for a *very* exposed bridge area.
PD>    They're all like that. Idea is you don't want them getting close
PD>enough anyway, and nobody's heard of a crusie missle.

If there are no cruise missiles, then exactly what did the Zion
submarine launch against the test facility?  It looked to me like cruise
missiles configured to deploy submunitions.  (no pun intended)  And they
must have been guided for those Minoskvy particles to throw off their
sensors and end the bombardment.

As far as getting close, considering the mobility of those armored
suits, I think that's wishful thinking.  No, you don't want them getting
that close, but you ought to be able to protect yourself at least a
little bit if they do!

PD> Did you say starblazers? Space BattleShip Yamato?

No, because I haven't seen those yet.  But I remember the SDF-1 also had
a very exposed bridge.

Another thing that popped to mind on rewatching the first episode was
that it seemed kind of odd that the battle suits were carrying guns,
because it seemed like they couldn't hit the broadside of a starship
with them.  But, in all fairness, the example I was thinking of seemed
to be a "green" pilot, unused to combat, and if they had computer-aided
targeting then those Minoskvy particles may have been throwing that off
too.

-=-
 * Crazy-J * "Dragon Cheese: The Loose Brie Story" -- Now Playing!

--- SLMAIL v3.5C  (#1540)
 * Origin: Robotech  -=-Fansubbed anime available upon request-=- (1:3600/7)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 422 of 469
 From : Jeff Hancock                        1:3600/7        .òp 06 .âã 96 17:43
 To   : Leman Russ
 Subj : Japanese SF
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

LR> I admit that GitS had a lot of "talking about souls" andso on, but
LR>once in a while, I >LIKE< something that talks about things instead
LR>of just shooting, blowing things up, flopping naked tits aroung and
LR>having giant war machines going at it till sparks fly.

And once again, I try to make a statement and someone takes it to the
utter extreme so they can tear it down easier.  Just because I said I
wasn't that interested in something that, from what I heard, was "all
talk", does not mean that what I want is "no talk, all action".

The admittedly vague descriptions I was given of it made it sound rather
dull and preachy, aside from your comments, which pretty much came down
to "it's good, go buy it".  Not real encouraging.

As it happened, I was in the local record store, which I never go to
because of their prices, and it turned out they had a couple of anime
tapes there... the exploitative stuff, anyway, and all dubbed in
english.  GITS was there, so as I said, I took a look at it... and I
found the back of the box description to make it sound a lot more
interesting then anything that anyone had ever said on the 'net about
it.

Didn't buy it, might buy the subbed version if I see it, or might rent
either if that becomes an option.  It does seem like it might be worth
seeing, now that I know a little more about it.  (okay, well, it did at
the time, I was only in there for a couple of minutes and now I can't
remember a darn thing except that it sounded good!)
-=-
 * Crazy-J * "Shinjitsu wa soko ni aru.  Dare mo shinjiru na."

--- SLMAIL v3.5C  (#1540)
 * Origin: Robotech  -=-Fansubbed anime available upon request-=- (1:3600/7)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 423 of 469
 From : Jeff Hancock                        1:3600/7        .òp 06 .âã 96 20:35
 To   : Patrick Duda
 Subj : Realistic space scen
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

PD> Uh oh. Looks like I said the 'A' word! Stirrin' the pot. But i'll

What'sis supposed to mean?

PD>  My current pet projects right now (collecting everyhting possible)
PD>in amime are of course Yamato (a little bit), Ghost in the Shell, and

Are you aware of the fansubbing community?

PD>Do you know of any NATIONAL anime distrubutors, like a catlog type
PD>place, instead of going anywhere and everywhere to get stuff (but at
PD>reasonable prices, too)?

I have never dealt with these people, but they seem to be fairly
popular.  Suppose I really should give them a try someday.
(the following is straight off a fido msg)

The Right Stuf International
PO box 71309
Des Moines, IA 50325
Phone: (800) 338-6827
Fax:   (515) 279-7434  (use FINE mode)
E-mail: Atomu@centsys.com

For $3 they'll send you a catalog full of anime stuff and put you on
their mailing list.
-=-
 * Crazy-J * And besides, your pulse cannons ruined my bunny slippers.

--- SLMAIL v3.5C  (#1540)
 * Origin: Robotech  -=-Fansubbed anime available upon request-=- (1:3600/7)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 424 of 469
 From : Steven Ross                         1:243/45        .îí 05 .âã 96 23:40
 To   : All
 Subj : Basilisk Dreams Books
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Hello,

        I'm happy to announce that as of Thursday, Aug. 1st, 1996, Basilisk
Dreams Books is now open! Located at 35 Beechwood Ave, Ottawa, Ont. Basilisk
Dreams Books deals in Sf, Fantasy and Horror literature. They also handle
special orders.


                Tel. #: (613) 744-8917
                Fax #: (613) 744-8560

Summer Hours are:
                Mon. - Wed. 10am - 6pm
                Thurs. - Fri. 9am - 10pm
                Saterday 10am - 6pm
                Sunday 12pm - 4pm


... OFFLINE 1.41

--- Maximus 2.01wb
 * Origin: Pandora's Box, Ottawa, Ont. 613-829-1209 (1:243/45)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 425 of 469
 From : Owen E. Oulton                      1:243/45        .pä 07 .âã 96 14:23
 To   : Bob Klahn
 Subj : BY FORCE OF ARMS
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 OEO> Um, not exactly.  Great Britain was (and still is) a parliamentary
 OEO> democracy with a constitutional monarchy, not a republican democracy.
 OEO> A republic and a monarchy are mutually exclusive, by definition.

 BK> What is the difference between a republican democracy and a parliamentary
 BK> democracy?

 BK> Why are they exclusive? Don't forget, the democrace is real, the monarchy
 BK> BK> is a figurehead. It's a matter of substance and image.

By definition, a republic does not have a monarch as head of state.  That is one
of the fundamental underpinnings of a republic and, BTW, democracy is not
necessary to a republic.  Oh, and a constitutional monarch isn't strictly a
figurehead.  They have some rather sweeping powers, which are, to be sure,
rarely exercised, but they are there...  Ask the New Zealanders.

However, this is veering widely from anything remotely on topic, snd to get into
long definitions would merely take it farther afield.  I do, however, reccommend
a stint of reading on political science at the library.

CFN, O

--- Maximus 2.01wb
 * Origin: Pandora's Box, Ottawa, Ont. 613-829-1209 (1:243/45)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 426 of 469
 From : Owen E. Oulton                      1:243/45        .pä 07 .âã 96 14:34
 To   : Nicolai Shapero
 Subj : Basilisk Dreams Books
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 SR> I'm happy to announce that as of Thursday, Aug. 1st, 1996, Basilisk
 SR> Dreams Books is now open!

Steven Ross posted the above message from this BBS yeaterday, and has had his
wrist slapped.  I also told him to expect NetMail from you...

Owen E. Oulton, Asst. SysOp, Pandora's Box

--- Maximus 2.01wb
 * Origin: Pandora's Box, Ottawa, Ont. 613-829-1209 (1:243/45)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 427 of 469
 From : Tracy Klein                         1:500/2         .pä 07 .âã 96 01:01
 To   : All
 Subj : Re: nuclear BS
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: HyperMail! v1.20 95-0079
Will some please tell these people to get off the nuclear garbage, this
is a science fiction fan mail area, not some place to debate the pros
and cons of nuclear power.
It is getting sick and tiring, sitting here in front of the computer
looking at this forum and seeing nuclear crap in it.

--- HyperMail! v1.20
 * Origin: Nite Lites BBS, Minot ND (1:500/2)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 428 of 469
 From : Tracy Klein                         1:500/2         .pä 07 .âã 96 01:10
 To   : Christian Raven
 Subj : Re: Star Trek
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: HyperMail! v1.20 95-0079
Watch this season of DS9. I recently read someplace, they will send the
station crew into the Klingon Empire, where they will discover the real
Gouron(hope I spelled that right.) was replaced with a changeling.

You never know, this season of DS9 and Voyager might turn out to be
better than the last couple of seasons.

Tracy Klein

--- HyperMail! v1.20
 * Origin: Nite Lites BBS, Minot ND (1:500/2)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 429 of 469
 From : Darre LuAllen                       1:3637/1        .pä 07 .âã 96 08:13
 To   : Kay Shapero
 Subj : SF Club questions
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 On 08-03-96 Kay Shapero wrote to Darre LuAllen...

 DL>      If I recall, you mentioned that you are a member of the LA
 DL>SF club.  I'm looking at starting a club here, and was wondering
 DL>about how to go about it.  We are a much smaller area
 DL>(understatement), but I think enough people here might be interested.

 KS>      So ya wanna know about the LASFS, huh?  Check your
 KS> netmail for details - I'll mail you a copy of the flier.

 Many thanks for your help.  Strangely enough, a friend who owns
 a comics shop is looking to expand his floor space and wants to
 include a little meeting/hangout area.  He was discussing a private
 club, so I made my pitch about a SF club.  He likes the idea, so
 we may be able to pull it off.

 After reading your account of the auction practices, I wish I was
 still in the area.  (I was stationed in Twentynine Palms for a while.)
 Yes, I hope to see such sillyness evolve here.  Which leads me to
 another question:  What kinda activities does the club involve itself
 in?  In other words, what do you do for fun and the typical meeting?

 I got the netmailed flier, which helps alot.  Thank you for sending it.
 If my above question was answered by the flier, please forgive me.  It's
 early here.
___
 * OFFLINE 1.56 * Tried drowning my sorrows, little suckers learned to swim

--- Maximus/2 3.01
 * Origin: Cumberland BBS -TN- V34 (1:3637/1)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 430 of 469
 From : Dave MacLean                        1:259/536       .pä 07 .âã 96 02:59
 To   : All
 Subj : fun & neat info
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
hi, heres some neat info for ya.

1 - i am looking for message buddies who have interests that are similar to mine
that i can message back & gorth with.

2 - i am writting a trivia book on st-tng & i need help.

3 - i am part of a club that meets monthly and we are always looking for new
members.

if u need more info or have any questions on any or all of the above items feel
free to message me back.  hope to hear from some of you.



--- Maximus 2.01wb
 * Origin: USS Proxima = Toronto, Canada (416)265-3867 (1:259/536)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 431 of 469
 From : Patrick Duda                        1:218/801       .åò 08 .âã 96 11:29
 To   : Henry Triplett
 Subj : Japanese SF
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12  91-0018

-> PD> Did you (or anyone else) hear about the SOS movement? (save our
-> PD> scouts) Appears This september it's going off the air. There is a
-> Sounds good!  I don't currently have web access, though.  Do you
-> know of a snail mail address that one can write to?  I was dubious
-> when I first heard of Sailor Moon, but it seems to be something that
-> grows on you with

 Well, i'm not exactly a fanatic watcher of it, but it's simply
factually the best and most intelligent cartoon on NA TV. Where else do
you actually have characters that are built on? I like the contrast to
uh, 'princess guenivere and the jewel riders' or something that is a
native Na girls' show, and it's as mundane and worthless as all the
other cartoons on.

 There are several dozen snail mail addresses on the site, and I will
post a few. Depite this being off topic, it's important that we keep not
only well done anime on our Tv's, but also good series such as this.
(let's not bring up starblazers! :)

--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12
 * Origin: Star Tech Diamond Bar, CA 909-396-4227 714-257-1175  (1:218/801.0)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 432 of 469
 From : Patrick Duda                        1:218/801       .åò 08 .âã 96 11:43
 To   : Jeff Hancock
 Subj : Gundam 0083...
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12  91-0018

-> And I'm curious to know if you know anything about the "Minoskvy
-> particles" (spelling is probably wrong).  When under attack, the
-> captain of the Albion tells them to "release the Minoskvy
-> particles", and that

 As a physicist by hobby I can say i've never heard of minoskvy
particles. Sounds like a treknology kind of thing.

-> Universal in what sense?  What's the base of reference?

 I dunno, it was a guess! :) Probably start at the beggings of time and
call it 0. Who knows what the standard unit would be (24hours, 6 hours)?

-> OVA, OAV, whatever.  I see it written both ways all the time, and if
-> there's a technical difference, I don't know what it is.  As far as I

 No, you were right the first time. It's confused all the time, but it's
to the best of my knowlege actually OVA.

-> What do you mean by newer?  Gundam 0083 was apparently made in
-> 1990... and the Dirty Pair TV series was made sometime in the 80s
-> and I happen to think "Russian Roulette" is a pretty darn kickin'
-> tune. <g>

 Hmmmm.. i'd say newer as in 1992+. DP was an exceptionaly good anime
anyhow. Gundam is back to the 70's I think. Its was, I believe, the
originator of all the present day 'mecha'.

-> Anything in particular you find wrong with them?  They're a bit
-> stylistic, but they haven't seemed like they were poorly designed for

 WEll, it's always been my opinion of them. I think styleized is the
perfect word for it. I simply don't think that they're, uh, efficient
designs. All those little things sticking out and surplus parts to
break. I supposed I prefer the simpler lines of the Macross mecha. I
mean, I guess if the main boss characters had these monstrously modified
mecha like the gundam ones, then that'd be okay, but for the great
population to have mecha like that just doesn't seem right. Imagine
having to animate that! I don't quite remember the designs of the
Gunbuster mecha, but I liked those.

-> If there are no cruise missiles, then exactly what did the Zion
-> submarine launch against the test facility?  It looked to me like
-> cruise

 I dunno. I haven't seen the GD0083. I was just trying to provide an
explanation. Of course, on macross (the original first movie/generation)
they had the open bridge, and had lots of fights right on the hull of
the ship itself. Maybe it's just luck! :)

-> As far as getting close, considering the mobility of those armored
-> suits, I think that's wishful thinking.  No, you don't want them
-> getting that close, but you ought to be able to protect yourself at
-> least a

 I think in space some of that explosive flak stuff would be
devestatingly effective. Or little homing missles, like the size of a
beer can (not those macross missle either :)

-> Another thing that popped to mind on rewatching the first episode was
-> that it seemed kind of odd that the battle suits were carrying guns,

 Well, I can bet that a full auto gun is going to be anything but easy
to wield in space, but that's what crosshairs and computer aided
targeting is for! I guess it's suposed to make the show more dramatic of
the guys can't shoot for nothing.

--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12
 * Origin: Star Tech Diamond Bar, CA 909-396-4227 714-257-1175  (1:218/801.0)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 433 of 469
 From : Patrick Duda                        1:218/801       .åò 08 .âã 96 11:50
 To   : Jeff Hancock
 Subj : Realistic space scen
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12  91-0018

-> PD> Uh oh. Looks like I said the 'A' word! Stirrin' the pot. But i'll
->
-> What'sis supposed to mean?

 Anime. I know some people who start foaming at the mouth when you say
that, anyway... <g>  heh heh

-> Are you aware of the fansubbing community?

 Yes and no. Yes, I am, but no, I've never asked anyone. First, I dunno
how to go about doing it, and i'm sorta impatient. :) Second, I hate
asking anyone who is listed to do ANOTHER copy, when they're probably
already busy to the next century. I'd prefer to find someone around
locally. Or maybe someone from that LA fanclub, it's not too far.
  I don't mind buying lots of tapes, but when you need to get a series,
and they sell 2 eps per $20 tape, it's a bit outrageous (esp. for
robotech). Are laserdics still $300 a piece for the nicer series? (like
R-tech)  Even more than the tapes, though, I like to get CD's as well.

  I'll check out the listed place.

--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12
 * Origin: Star Tech Diamond Bar, CA 909-396-4227 714-257-1175  (1:218/801.0)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 434 of 469
 From : Patrick Duda                        1:218/801       .åò 08 .âã 96 12:27
 To   : Jeff Hancock
 Subj : Japanese SF
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12  91-0018

-> The admittedly vague descriptions I was given of it made it sound
-> rather dull and preachy, aside from your comments, which pretty much
-> came down

 I got it yesterday. It's interesting enough, definately Masmune Shriow
stuff. It's a lot like Akira, a great movie based on a Manga series,
that just doesn;t quite capture everything the magna series was. Like
akira, it leaves a lot to be desired. The plot at times seems to move at
warp speed, presumably to attempt to cram everything there is to know
about the background of the movie in a few minutes. I think it's
something that should have (like akria) been done justice by making
several movies about it, instead of the cram job that _was_ done.

-> english.  GITS was there, so as I said, I took a look at it... and I
-> found the back of the box description to make it sound a lot more

  siskel and Ebert liked it? huh. I had to watch it twice to actually
understand the emphasis of the movie, being just what is a human? As far
as story and action goes, it has both. Although the best part was the
end where the tank atomized everything. I hope Appleseed has scenes like
that from the tanks (i've not seen the anime).

  Anyway, it's not really something i'd like to buy. It's somethign
that's really great to go see in a theatre, but not something you wanna
go and watch again, 'cept to figure it out. My copy was kinda messed up,
I wonder if it's a production flaw on Manga Ent.'s part. I'll probably
not take it back, though.

--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12
 * Origin: Star Tech Diamond Bar, CA 909-396-4227 714-257-1175  (1:218/801.0)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 435 of 469
 From : David Johnston                      1:342/14        .åò 08 .âã 96 00:51
 To   : Kevin Ahearn
 Subj : By Force Of Arms
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
-> BK>  Go back to _Dune_ and their prohibition of machines BK> built
-> with a mind like a BK>  human. IOW, the Mentats existed because of a
-> BK> prohibition of computers. One BK>  part I found particularly
-> unrealistic.
-> Was there a ban on ALL computers, or just artificial intelligences?
-> IIRC, the law went something like, "thou shalt not make a machine in
-> the image of a man's mind."  That could certainly allow non-thinking
-> number-crunchers like what we have today.

Hard to say.  Dune wasn't exactly hard sf, so nobody had cause to whip
out a calculator.  They appeared to have a blanket prohibition on
computers though, but then they also went around bopping each other with
swords, so ...

--- PCBoard (R) v15.21/100
 * Origin: Freddy's Place - Edm. AB - 33.6K (403) 413-3460 (1:342/14)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 436 of 469
 From : Patrick Duda                        1:218/801       .åò 08 .âã 96 12:56
 To   : Henry Triplett
 Subj : SOS -save our scouts
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12  91-0018
  The following is a form letter requested to be sent by the SOS team.

To: The Rosie O'Donnell Show
    30 Rockefeller Plaza
    New York, NY 10112
    (212) 506-3200
    (212) 506-3249 (FAX)


Dear Rosie,


     SUGGESTIONS OF A STORY ABOUT SAILOR MOON &
    THE SOS CAMPAIGN ON THE ROSIE O'DONNELL SHOW


My name is [name from address above] and I'm [ ] years old.
I love watching your show because it's [      ],
which is so unlike any other daytime talk shows on TV.

Another favorite TV show of mine is the animated show "Sailor
Moon".  I like it for pretty much the same reasons I like
your show: It's also [     ],
plus it's also romantic, educational, and empowering to young
people, especially girls.  It is unlike any other animated
show in the history of U.S. television.

Unfortunately Sailor Moon is scheduled to be removed from
syndication in September, due to unsatisfactory ratings, which
in turn is a direct effect of the terrible pre-dawn
time-slots the show ended up in most U.S. TV stations.  When
the show does go off the air in September, hundreds of
thousands of fans will be devastated, many little hearts will
be broken, and many positive dreams shattered.

That's why I'm writing to you, hoping that you'll appreciate
the show as much as we do, and maybe do a segment about Sailor
Moon, its gloomy fate (which most fans are still blissfully
unaware of), and about the huge Internet campaign known as
"Save Our Sailors" (SOS), which fans started back in March in
the hope saving the show.  The SOS currently boasts a
supporter base of 22,000 fans, which is increasing daily by
the hundreds!

This unprecedented effort to save an animated show by fans of
all ages and both genders will surely make a nice story on
the Rosie show, and with your help, we can further publicize
our campaign and gain more supporters before it's too late.

I sincerely hope that you'll consider doing a segment about
Sailor Moon and about our SOS campaign on the Rosie show, and
I thank you for your kind attention.









                   ([name appear as in top of letter])
                   Rosie-watcher and
                   SOS Supporter.


P.S. To learn more about the SOS campaign, visit the SOS homepage at:
    http://looney.physics.sunysb.edu/~daffy/sos/
     To contact the SOS Team, email to:
    sos@dau.physics.sunysb.edu

--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12
 * Origin: Star Tech Diamond Bar, CA 909-396-4227 714-257-1175  (1:218/801.0)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 437 of 469
 From : Patrick Duda                        1:218/801       .åò 08 .âã 96 12:57
 To   : Henry Triplett
 Subj : SOS -save our scouts
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12  91-0018
 This is another 'media target':

To:  STORY SUGGESTIONS
     DATELINE NBC
     ROOM 510
     30 ROCKEFELLER PLAZA
     NEW YORK, NEW YORK 10112




 [Title: Default: "REQUEST FOR FOLLOW-UP STORY ABOUT SAILOR MOON ON
DATELINE"]



My name is [name from address above] and I'm a -year old
 in [subject of study or work] .

On December 20, 1995, Dateline NBC ran a segment "Moonstruck" about
the television show "Sailor Moon".  Since the Dateline segment aired,
two rather paradoxical things have happened to Sailor Moon: 1. It
attracted huge passionate followings in the U.S. and in Canada.
2. It's going to be taken off syndication this fall in the U.S.  I
believe that this twisted fate of Sailor Moon will make a great news
story and definitely warrants a follow-up segment in Dateline.

[write the reasons you like Sailor Moon below]


So, you can imagine my surprise and disappointment when I discovered
that Sailor Moon is going to be removed from syndication this fall,
partly due to the disputes and mismanagements of the production and
advertising companies involved.  That's why I decided to join the Save
Our Sailors (SOS) campaign.

The Save Our Sailors campaign is an Internet-based campaign geared
toward the preservation of Sailor Moon in North America.  For the past
few months the SOS has been gathering signatures of Sailor Moon fans
on the Internet.  The total number of signatures now stands at more
than 20,000 , all of which gathered in the 4 months since the
beginning of the campaign in March.

However, despite the overwhelming public outcry, Sailor Moon is still
in jeopardy.  Come September 9, Sailor Moon is scheduled to be removed
from syndication in the United States, and will be doomed to a
constant rerun cycle in Canada.  The story of how an internationally
successful show like Sailor Moon could end up in its present
precarious position in the U.S., and how an unprecedented number of
fans of all ages are trying to save the show, should constitute a nice
follow-up segment to the December Moonstruck segment.  Apart from
being a good news story, by bringing attention of Sailor Moon's
impending doom to the public, Dateline may actually help the SOS
campaign save this fine show, which obviously deserves a second
chance.

I sincerely hope that Dateline will do a follow-up story on Sailor
Moon and the SOS campaign, and I thank you for your kind attention.









                   ([name appear as in top of letter])

P.S. To learn more about the SOS campaign, visit the SOS homepage at:
    http://looney.physics.sunysb.edu/~daffy/sos/
     To contact the SOS Team, email to:
    sos@dau.physics.sunysb.edu

--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12
 * Origin: Star Tech Diamond Bar, CA 909-396-4227 714-257-1175  (1:218/801.0)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 438 of 469
 From : Owen E. Oulton                      1:243/45        .åò 08 .âã 96 13:59
 To   : Patrick Duda
 Subj : Space: Above and Beyond,
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

-> The show idea sounds interesting, but I don't know if Star Trek is th
-> right medium for it.
-> Oh, and you mentioned that none of the main characters in Space died.
-> Correction: Vanson did.  I certainly felt depressed about that - I li
-> her character.

 PD>     I know just about everyone died at the end of SAAB, (in one of the
 PD> most thrown-toegether-looking endings ever). Isn't vanson that real
 PD> tough one? Didn't she die with the other female pilot in the transport?
 PD> I don't know their names well. Was this mid-season or something?

Vansen (yes, she was the "tough one") and Damphousse (formerly Ensign Rager on
ST:TNG) were in the cockpit escape capsule from their transport, making
planetfall behind Chig lines.  'Phousse was unconscious, but Vansen was OK and
in control of the capsule.  The only character from the Wild Cards to die was
Wang, who "blowed up *REAL* good!"

CFN, O

--- Maximus 2.01wb
 * Origin: Pandora's Box, Ottawa, Ont. 613-829-1209 (1:243/45)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 439 of 469
 From : Owen E. Oulton                      1:243/45        .åò 08 .âã 96 14:05
 To   : Henry Triplett
 Subj : Japanese SF
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 HT> I was dubious when I first heard of Sailor Moon, but it seems to be
 HT> something that grows on you with time.

Sorta like fungus or gangrene?  <G,D,R>

CFN, O

--- Maximus 2.01wb
 * Origin: Pandora's Box, Ottawa, Ont. 613-829-1209 (1:243/45)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 440 of 469
 From : Owen E. Oulton                      1:243/45        .åò 08 .âã 96 04:37
 To   : Darre LuAllen
 Subj : Japanese SF
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 DL>  The Japanese love stories about heroic and sexy women.  <This broad and
 DL>  sweeping generalization brought to you by the Council for
 DL>  Oversimplification, Minipax>

Shouldn't that be MiniTrue, not MiniPax?  Time to reread 1984 to brush up on
your NewSpeak, Darre.  Confusing the ministries is doubleplusungood.  And
remember, Big Brother loves you.

CFN, O

--- Maximus 2.01wb
 * Origin: Pandora's Box, Ottawa, Ont. 613-829-1209 (1:243/45)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 441 of 469
 From : Pavel Viaznikov                     2:5020/185.9    .ÿò 09 .âã 96 01:49
 To   : Kevin Ahearn
 Subj : BY FORCE OF ARMS
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Hi there, Kevin!

Tuesday August 06 1996 20:40, Kevin Ahearn wrote to Bob Klahn:

 BK>> Go back to _Dune_ and their prohibition of machines
 BK>> built with a mind like a human. IOW, the Mentats existed because of a
 BK>> prohibition of computers. One part I found particularly unrealistic.
 KA> Was there a ban on ALL computers, or just artificial intelligences?  IIRC,
 KA> the law went something like, "thou shalt not make a machine in the image
 KA> of a man's mind."  That could certainly allow non-thinking
 KA> number-crunchers like what we have today.

- Nope. It is clearly said even in the Glossary that the most complicated
machines they had were mechanical servants - whaddyacallem - actually, quite
simple clockwork machines, like famopus 18-century "magic dolls" - mechanical
scribe, artist or clavichordist. (And I wonder how their 'topters could manage
without computers... they should be more complicated then our planes, with these
moving wings and connected aerodynamics!).

                                              Best regards, Pavel

---
 * Origin:    To beer or not to beer? (C) Shakesbeer    (2:5020/185.9)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 442 of 469
 From : Leman Russ                          1:2250/7        .pä 07 .âã 96 22:01
 To   : Patrick Duda
 Subj : Re: Japanese SF
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 Well, first off Shirow writes Manga, notcomix. We're kind of sensitive about
that distinction here. ;)

 As to video companies, they do what they do for $$$.

"Boss, there's 2 tanks on our tail-and I think they're laughing!"

--- DLG Pro v1.0/DLGMail
 * Origin: Sage's Tower - Amiga - (618) 259-1844 (1:2250/7)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 443 of 469
 From : Leman Russ                          1:2250/7        .pä 07 .âã 96 22:24
 To   : Patrick Duda
 Subj : Re: Japanese SF
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 Oh, you can find Ghost in the shell at Blockbuster video.

>;[

--- DLG Pro v1.0/DLGMail
 * Origin: Sage's Tower - Amiga - (618) 259-1844 (1:2250/7)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 444 of 469
 From : Leman Russ                          1:2250/7        .pä 07 .âã 96 22:27
 To   : Nicolai Shapero
 Subj : Re: Realistic space scenes
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 I still saw some awesomely clear scenes of the LEM returning ro dock withthe
orbiter for the return trip. They were clearer than the surface shots.

>:[

--- DLG Pro v1.0/DLGMail
 * Origin: Sage's Tower - Amiga - (618) 259-1844 (1:2250/7)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 445 of 469
 From : Leman Russ                          1:2250/7        .åò 08 .âã 96 04:57
 To   : Todd Sullivan
 Subj : Re: Klingons
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 When people can;t state their honest opinions, then there's no point in logging
in. Ifind Klingons despicable and can;t see why anyone would emulatesuch a
worthless race.

>;[

--- DLG Pro v1.0/DLGMail
 * Origin: Sage's Tower - Amiga - (618) 259-1844 (1:2250/7)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 446 of 469
 From : Leman Russ                          1:2250/7        .åò 08 .âã 96 05:01
 To   : Darre Luallen
 Subj : Re: Japanese SF
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Ifyou like makingvideos out of SF shows, you should have seen when PBS played
"Hotel california" to scenes from "The prisoner".

>:[

--- DLG Pro v1.0/DLGMail
 * Origin: Sage's Tower - Amiga - (618) 259-1844 (1:2250/7)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 447 of 469
 From : David Johnston                      1:342/14        .ÿò 09 .âã 96 00:43
 To   : Jeff Hancock
 Subj : Gundam 0083...
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
-> And I'm curious to know if you know anything about the "Minoskvy
-> particles" (spelling is probably wrong).  When under attack, the
-> captain of the Albion tells them to "release the Minoskvy particles",
-> and that somehow foils the bombardment, but later they can't track
-> the Zions because of those particles.  It sounds to me as though
-> whatever they

As I recall, "Minovsky particles" are actually the key to the
antigravity propulsion system.  It's possible that releasing the
particles actually messed up the trajectories of whatever they were
being bombarded with, but using them meant that they could no longer
detect the Zion propulsion systems.

-> PD> JH> Ho-kay.  First, the 0083 refers to the year, and was prefaced
-> by PD> JH>"U.C.". I have no idea what this might stand for.  There is
-> also PD>     Universal time.
->
-> Universal in what sense?  What's the base of reference?

I can't remember.  Either the formation of the Earth Federation, or
something to do with the history of space flight.

-> Another thing that popped to mind on rewatching the first episode was
-> that it seemed kind of odd that the battle suits were carrying guns,
-> because it seemed like they couldn't hit the broadside of a starship
-> with them.  But, in all fairness, the example I was thinking of
-> seemed

That could have something to do with the New Types.  The chief advantage
of being a New Type is that you lead a charmed life in combat.

--- PCBoard (R) v15.21/100
 * Origin: Freddy's Place - Edm. AB - 33.6K (403) 413-3460 (1:342/14)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 448 of 469
 From : John Aldrich                        1:362/669       .åò 08 .âã 96 08:35
 To   : Darre LuAllen
 Subj : B5 Renewed
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Hello Darre!

Tuesday August 06 1996 09:23, Darre LuAllen wrote to Don Bach:

 DL>  I've thought about it.  Since I rent an apartment, it might not be a
 DL>  good idea.  If only I could convince the landlord to get the set up for
 DL>  the entire apartment complex.  He could charge more rent.  That'd make
 DL>  him happy.

Here's something (a bit off-topic, I know, but what the heck ... <G>) Tell your
landlord he can become a "neighborhood distributor" (or something like that) and
anyone that subscribes through him, he gets a bonus or a cut or something like
that... I'm not real clear on the details, but I just heard about that a couple
days ago...
My roomie and I are seriously thinking about getting Primestar (or USSB or
whatever) since it would cost virtually the same if we kept basic cable for the
local stuff and the mini-dish for the "real" stuff. :)
That way we could watch the SciFi channel and watch all those great SF movies
that are produced by HBO and Showtime, etc. :) (Hey, Moderator...I'm TRYING to
keep it on topic <G>)
        John
 {dungeon@dngnbbs.com}

... Confucius say: Lady who live in glass house, dress in basement!
--- GoldED/386 2.50+ 91LM1
 * Origin: The Dungeon BBS 28.8/V.34 24-hours 423/875-4137 (1:362/669)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 449 of 469
 From : Darre LuAllen                       1:3637/1        .pä 07 .âã 96 08:58
 To   : Michael Harper
 Subj : Japanese SF
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 On 08-04-96 Michael Harper wrote to Darre LuAllen...

 MH> While sipping a dry martini, Darre LuAllen told Michael Harper about

 Hiccup...

 DL> Mike, you work the video room?  If so, then perhaps you can answer
 DL> this question:  What is a con allowed to show in a video room without
 DL> having to pay for re-broadcast rights?

 MH> That I don't know. I run current-release films that I can get at any
 MH> video rental place, and sometimes series episodes of Trek, B5 or such.
 MH> Rebroadcast rights never came up; video at cons is mostly in a sort of

 I just didn't want to get in trouble.  The Tenn Tech SF Club is putting
 on a gaming/comics expo and want to have a video room.  I didn't want
 them to get into trouble.

 BTW, have you ever seen Captain Harlock vs. the Death Star or other
 such fan kit-bashes?

 DL> I can see Winona Ryder, but Alicia Silverstone?  I guess she has that
 DL> teen-aged girl voice.  Personally, I'd rather see... er, hear Megan
 DL> Ward or perhaps Alyssa Milano as the voice of Kei.  Winona Ryder
 DL> would  do an excellent Yuri.

 MH>  Hm... Yeah, you're right. Milano would do very nicely as Kei.

 Especially if she went back to her "Who's the Boss" character with
 perhaps a bit of her worldly experiences peeking through.

 MH>  Silverstone was just the first one that came to mind...

 Understandable.  I've just never been a Silverstone fan.  Different
 tastes, I guess.

 MH>  For that matter, imagine Kei and Yuri done live action...

 DL> Can't.  You can't build a body like that in a gravity well.

 MH>  True, but the mass audience doesn't know that... and with the proper
 MH>  costuming, those bodies could be faked very well... I'd just love to
 MH>  see it tried. Done right, it would be so good...

 I have to admit, you're right.  It would be interesting.  I'd pay full
 price to see it.  Perhaps the appropriate modifications could be done
 with CGI.  I've seen pictures of two women who did the Lovely Angels at
 a Dragon*Con.  Aside from the obvious physical limitations and the fact
 they weren't teen-agers, they looked really good.

 MH> ... *Girls Wanted...All Positions...Will Train*

 Stolen....
___
 * OFFLINE 1.56 * Never mind that roses have thorns; be grateful that thorns
have roses.

--- Maximus/2 3.01
 * Origin: Cumberland BBS -TN- V34 (1:3637/1)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 450 of 469
 From : Darre LuAllen                       1:3637/1        .pä 07 .âã 96 09:06
 To   : Bob Klahn
 Subj : Sf Club Questions
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 On 08-04-96 Bob Klahn wrote to Darre Luallen...

 BK>  From my experience with clubs, SF and otherwise.

 All suggestions entertained equally.  Would you like yours to see a
 movie or take in a play?

 DL>  To start with, how often does the club meet?

 BK> Regularity is more important than frequency, but once a month is
 BK> normal, once a week is possible. Any less and the membership will
 BK> start to drift away.

 Fiber, yes.  ;>  I was thinking every other week; alternating days.
 Ex.: Second Wednesday and Fourth Thursday.

 DL>  What activities does the club participate in?

 BK> Go to SF movies, show videos, *discuss the subject*, and go out to
 BK> dinner.

 Sounds like just a larger version of my circle of friends, which I
 suppose it is intended to be.  Regular schedule or majority rules?

 BK>  Don't underestimate the importance of social activities.

 The whole reason for trying to start this puppy.

 DL> Is the club sponsored in any way?  What are dues and where do they go?

 BK> Cheap is important. I recently saw a civic group just fall apart
 BK> when the board of directors set the dues at $60/yr.

 Yikes.  I wasn't thinking anything nearly so high.  Luckily, a local
 comics shop is also looking to start a club.  I just might be able to
 talk him into expanding his idea.

 BK>  Also, don't underestimate the importance of food.

 Gotchya.  (Wasn't he a Soviet Premier?)  Keep'em fed and happy.
 Cookouts, dinners at diners, snack food....
___

 * OFFLINE 1.56 * I drank WHAT!?!


--- Maximus/2 3.01
 * Origin: Cumberland BBS -TN- V34 (1:3637/1)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 451 of 469
 From : Don Bach                            1:3632/65       .åò 08 .âã 96 21:14
 To   : Frank Glover
 Subj : Re: BY FORCE OF ARMS
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 FG>    Asimov wrote numerouus robot-oriented stories,
 FG> staying within that logical framework. I recommend
 FG> starting with the `I, Robot' anthology, if you're
 FG> interested.

Thanks.  It looks like a trip to the library may be in order!

Don


--- Maximus 3.01
 * Origin: No Regrets, Clinton, MS (601)924-8247 9P-5A (1:3632/65)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 452 of 469
 From : Don Bach                            1:3632/65       .åò 08 .âã 96 21:22
 To   : Darre LuAllen
 Subj : B5 Renewed
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 DL>  I've thought about it.  Since I rent an apartment, it might not be a
 DL>  good idea.  If only I could convince the landlord to get the set up for
 DL>  the entire apartment complex.  He could charge more rent.  That'd make
 DL>  him happy.

It used to be that apartment rooftops were cluttered with tenant's TV antennas.
Why not approach your landlord and ask?  You could hang a DSS antenna just
outside of one of your windows.  They also make portable tripods where you could
place it in the yard, but it could be moved for mowing.

Don


--- Maximus 3.01
 * Origin: No Regrets, Clinton, MS (601)924-8247 9P-5A (1:3632/65)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 453 of 469
 From : Kay Shapero                         1:102/524       .åò 08 .âã 96 15:17
 To   : GERRY NORMANDEAU
 Subj : Flipping the Cordwainer B
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Aug 03 16:39>, GERRY NORMANDEAU (1:243/95) wrote to KAY SHAPERO:

 GN>done using miniatures and cromakeying the actors on the scean.
 GN>Even at that time I fealt the show was a total joke. The idea was good
 GN>but man oh man what a dog! I hope they play it again soon, I just have
 GN>to see it again :)

How'd you like the way Our Heroine went nonchalantly wandering through the
airless section with her hair hanging out from under her supposedly sealed space
suit helmet?

--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 454 of 469
 From : Todd Sullivan                       1:202/720.3     .åò 08 .âã 96 19:37
 To   : Kevin Ahearn
 Subj : BY FORCE OF ARMS
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Reports from the Interior indicate that Kevin Ahearn leaked the following to Bob
Klahn, re: BY FORCE OF ARMS

 BK>>  Go back to _Dune_ and their prohibition of machines
 BK>> built with a mind like a
 BK>>  human. IOW, the Mentats existed because of a prohibition of computers.
 BK>> One part I found particularly unrealistic.

 KA> Was there a ban on ALL computers, or just artificial intelligences?
 KA> IIRC, the law went something like, "thou shalt not make a machine in
 KA> the image of a man's mind."  That could certainly allow non-thinking
 KA> number-crunchers like what we have today.

As I recall (after about 15 years), it was a total ban on computation machines
of any kind, including automatic machinery for navigation (navigators used Spice
to get a grip on the "feel" of space) or any type of highly involved
computations.

Seems to me that it was a Luddite reaction that got cannonized, via the Orange
Catholic Bible.  I'd guess it was political, but it wasn't exactly explained.

Todd Sullivan
Email: Todd.Sullivan@202-720.mx1.fidonet.org

... Macs make great paperweights.

-*- ASTG 1.9

--- Spot 1.3a Unregistered
 * Origin: Todd's Spot in the Continuum (1:202/720.3)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 455 of 469
 From : Wayne Crow                          1:3602/477      .ÿò 09 .âã 96 13:43
 To   : Roger Fingas
 Subj : Space: Above and Beyond f
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
RF>Are there any fans of that show here?

  Yep, I didn't start off being a fan, but after a while. I finally got
into it. Unfortunately, Fox has decided to scrap the show. Why is beyond
me.

Wayne
wcrow@wwisp.com
***
 þ QMPro 1.53 þ Misspelled?  Impossible.  My modem is error correcting.

--- TriToss (tm) Professional 1.0 - #114
 * Origin: Adventure Sports BBS-McCalla,Al. (205)477-4214 (1:3602/477.0)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 456 of 469
 From : Roger Fingas                        1:163/215       .åò 08 .âã 96 22:09
 To   : Patrick Duda
 Subj : Space: Above and Beyond ending
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
You don't know who Vanson was?  CAPTAIN Vanson?  The squadron leader?  She was
ambushed by the Chig "Red Baron."

--- Maximus 3.01
 * Origin: BitByters BBS, Rockland ON, Can. (613)446-7773 v34, (1:163/215)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 457 of 469
 From : Steven Ross                         1:243/45        .pä 07 .âã 96 22:57
 To   : Bob Klahn
 Subj : By Force Of Arms
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 On 08-05-96 Bob Klahn wrote to Steven Ross...

SR>         and three cammels.

BK>  Please, somebody declare it on topic.

        That seems rather unlikely.

SR>         <*Blink*> I thought you were a republican!?!
BK>  I*thought*flaming*was*not*allowed.
BK>  You dirty, low down, .......

        It could have been worse. I could have called you a Conservitive.
<g,d&r>

BK>  Hey, say that on the Debate echo. I'll bet you'll get the right
BK> wingers laughing so hard they'll all get hernias....

        I've never seen a right winger with a hernia, that might be fun to
watch. <g>

BK>  Now that you mention it, I recall that.

        I beleave the actor's name was Clifton Webb, I could be wrong. They
made a movie about it called _I was Monty's Double_. It wasn't bad.

... OFFLINE 1.41 * B5 Tip #7: Never ship out with a man named Morden.

--- Maximus 2.01wb
 * Origin: Pandora's Box, Ottawa, Ont. 613-829-1209 (1:243/45)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 458 of 469
 From : Stephen Simmons                     1:275/160       .ÿò 09 .âã 96 16:39
 To   : Tracy Klein
 Subj : Re: nuclear BS
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE 1.11+
 ÕÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍµTracy Klein wrote:

TK>Will some please tell these people to get off the nuclear garbage,
TK>this is a science fiction fan mail area, not some place to debate the
TK>pros and cons of nuclear power.
TK>It is getting sick and tiring, sitting here in front of the computer
TK>looking at this forum and seeing nuclear crap in it.

Sorry, thought my reference to _Expanded_Universe_ WAS on topic.
I'll try to do better.

Blackjack
... Funny, that SEEMED like a good idea at the time ...
___ Blue Wave/DOS v2.30 [NR]
--- Smile :)
 * Origin: * The Beast's Lair * (804)498-3070 * Va Beach VA * (1:275/160)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 459 of 469
 From : Jeff Hancock                        1:3600/7        .åò 08 .âã 96 22:37
 To   : Patrick Duda
 Subj : Japanese SF
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

PD>  Did you (or anyone else) hear about the SOS movement? (save our

Oh yes, heavens yes, a thousand times yes.  ;-)

PD>scouts) Appears This september it's going off the air. There is a web
PD>site where you can get info on badgering the TV guys to keep it on
PD>and to make more subbed episodes!

Subbed?  Wrong terminology there, the TV guys _dub_ it into english, not
subtitle it.  (if only... but you know why not. ;)

Yes, the SOS movement has been around for... probably over half a year,
or as long as there were rumors that SM would be cancelled.

However, by many accounts, the rumors are now fact:  it IS cancelled.
Period.  Regardless, and very possibly in part BECAUSE of, SOS.  It
seems some overzealous fans took to bombarding DIC and Bandai with
dozens upon dozens of letters, faxes, phone calls, the whole smear,
sending pledges in triplicate to presidents, vice presidents, anyone who
looked "important" enough to pester.  They... did not take kindly to
that.

And, of course when you get right down to it, the plain fact is, it
didn't sell toys and advertisers well enough.  Of course, considering it
hit a somewhat limited syndicated market and usually aired (according to
many references) frequently at such un-child-friendly hours as 5:30am,
it should come as no real surprise.

My opinion, elitist and purist though it may be, is that this is good.
I've only been able to see a few episodes of the DIC dubbed version, but
have heard many, many additional reports of the changes DIC made that
effectively dumbed-down and kiddy-fied a show which was not all that
mature to begin with.  At least the original had some depth, somewhat of
an "edge" to it at times, but the Americanized, mass-marketed version of
it was utterly degrading and childish.  Which is to be expected, all
things considered, but that doesn't mean I have to like it.

The few episodes I've been able to compare directly speak volumes by
themselves... the original, while silly, was rather fun.  The DIC dub
was almost too painful to watch in comparison, although they managed to
add a few funny lines that weren't in the original, overall and in
almost every other respect it was a cringe-fest of massive proportions.

The one positive aspect, of sorts, is that it was an anime series being
broadcast on American television, and might have opened the door to more
series.  The way I see it, if it had succeeded it would have paved the
way for more edited, hacked up and dumbed down versions of anime.  We
already have more than enough immature and poor-quality American-"made"
animated shows on TV (with a few notable exceptions) without slicing up
foreign-made animation that had more redeeming aspects to begin with.

It is to be fondly hoped that, with DIC dropping the series, it will
become more widely available through fansubbers, who already have some
of the episodes out in a very limited distribution.  There have also
been some hints that A.D. Vision may be interested in picking it up
commercially, although I find it a little hard to believe they would
bring out the entire series which is nearly up to 200 episodes by now.

-=-
 * Crazy-J * Bungee Jumping: The thrill of suicide w/o the commitment.

--- SLMAIL v3.5C  (#1540)
 * Origin: Robotech  -=-Fansubbed anime available upon request-=- (1:3600/7)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 460 of 469
 From : Jeff Hancock                        1:3600/7        .åò 08 .âã 96 22:45
 To   : Patrick Duda
 Subj : Macross 7
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

PD>-> What sort of buzz?
PD> Music, pix, lots of server space devoted to it. Discussion on the

More than is typical?  Lots of things attract insane amounts of web
attention.  It's practically a haven for obsessive fanboys eager to
build their own shrines to some media-induced fantasy.

Not that there's anything WRONG with that...

PD>The new Shoduka stuff a lot of the anime pages are routed through now

I don't know what this refers to, though.  Server software?

PD>-> DP>Macross: Do you Remember Love the movie made in the Macross
PD> Didn't like that movie. Thought it was rather a waste of time. Oh

It was a creative retelling of the series crammed into a movie.  Some
liked it, some didn't.

PD>well. The english version (dubbed) is a total mess. :( What about

You mean "Clash of the Bionoids".  You can say that again.  I think they
cut out about 20-25 minutes of the movie, and what's left makes even
less sense.  I think Roy's death was completely excised, and the ending
makes it look like the hero committed suicide since they never show him
after the ship blows up.

I once had a copy of the original, unaltered, not that it did me any
good since I didn't (and still don't) understand Japanese.  (although at
least now I know a TINY TINY bit. ;)  Am getting a copy of the subbed
version sometime in the hopefully not too distant future, though.

PD>Macross:the movie? Was that DYRL? At least that's what it was called
PD>at the cons a few years back. I never fifured that one out.

Hard to say.  Probably so.  There was a Robotech movie, though, if you
somehow got it confused with that - which was a rewritten version using
footage from Megazone 23 and possibly some of the Southern Cross part of
Robotech.  (I've forgotten what the original series name was)  I kind of
doubt that it got shown at any cons, though, as it had a very short life
and vanished.

The only Macross movie I know of is DYRL, though.  I think there's a
Macross II movie, or maybe it's Macross Plus, or perhaps both, but only
one movie that I know of based on/from the original series rather than
the sequels/additions that followed later.

-=-
 * Crazy-J * Do machoists burn in Hell too?

--- SLMAIL v3.5C  (#1540)
 * Origin: Robotech  -=-Fansubbed anime available upon request-=- (1:3600/7)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 461 of 469
 From : Brian Streib                        1:366/205       .åò 08 .âã 96 21:43
 To   : Leman Russ
 Subj : sf channel
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Hey Every saturday morn they show Japenese Animation...  They Vary a little..
They have this one that they show every once in a while..  Demon City Shoko or
something to that exstent.. Awesome movie......  They do have talk shows and
doing breaks have little talks and etc...  Well hope to have been a help...

                                               þ Twilight þ
                                            þ World's End BBS þ
                                               þ Iniquity þ

--- Sunny <HAHA> Florida
 * Origin: Megatropolis BBS ¨Crestview, Fl. 14.4 OS/2! (904)689-002 (1:366/205)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 462 of 469
 From : Bob Klahn                           1:234/2         .òp 06 .âã 96 22:50
 To   : Stephen Simmons
 Subj : WASTE DUMPING ...
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 SS>  ÕÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍµJ.T. Smith wrote:
BK>> There was a suggestion of disposing of radioactive waste by dumping
BK>> it in the sun. This raised objections of the possibility of triggering
BK>> some sort of reaction. As if all the nuclear waste on earth would make
BK>> a bubble on the sun.
BK>> Of course, in _Bill the Galactic Hero_ they did manage to overload a
BK>> star, but that was with ordinary garbage.

 SS>     As Heinlein pointed out in _Expanded_Universe_, this is a
 SS>     bad idea.  Yes, there are drawbacks to having the stuff
 SS>     around, but it would be a lot worse to irretrievably destroy
 SS>     it all and then find out that we could actually find a
 SS>     significant beneficial use for it.

 Have had a couple discussions of this, your statement describes my view
 pretty well also.

BOB KLAHN   bob.klahn@toltbbs.com

... If you want the best seat in the house, move the cat.
 * Silver Xpress V4.3P RB10275

--- FLAME v1.1
 * Origin: Telnet toltbbs.com or call 313-854-6001, Boardwatch #55 (1:234/2)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 463 of 469
 From : Bob Klahn                           1:234/2         .òp 06 .âã 96 22:50
 To   : David Johnston
 Subj : BY FORCE OF ARMS
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 ...

 DJ> controlled area in North America).  Britain did not declare war on
 DJ> the U.S. and certainly didn't want to deliberately provoke it into
 DJ> opening up a new front of the Napoleonic wars.  They were merely
 DJ> operating under the false assumption that the United States wouldn't
 DJ> dare go to war with a nation so powerful as they were.

 If you are trying to say that war was started through stupidity I can't
 argue that point.

 DJ> And the King wasn't in charge during this time period, the ministers
 DJ> were.  The American Revolution was the last gasp of dictatorial power in
 DJ> the British Empire.  By the time of the War of 1812, Britain would more

 Your next comment seems to contradict this.

 DJ> accurately be described as an oligarchy with some democratic trappings,

  Which is a form of dictatorship.

 DJ> loose on them as long as it was afraid of Napoleon.  If democracy
 DJ> prevented resorts to warfare inherently, then insofar as the Americans
 DJ> had pretensions to democracy, they should not have resorted to warfare

 Democracy does not prevent resorts to warfare, just makes it less likely.

 DJ> to get what they wanted.  The only reason why we have the present
 DJ> relative democratic amity is because the Cold War successfully defined
 DJ> all democracies as being on the same "side".

 Part of the reason. Another part is that it is hard to persuade the US
 citizenry that it is right to go to war with another democracy.

 DJ> However it is certainly easier to go to war in a dictatorship, when only
 DJ> one man's opinion need be considered.  But if resources should be become
 DJ> particularly scarce, I can easily see democracies going to war with each
 DJ> other to secure something they each consider essential to their
 DJ> welfare...such as petroleum.

 That I could see also.

BOB KLAHN   bob.klahn@toltbbs.com

... Forgive us for shooting those who trespass against us.
 * Silver Xpress V4.3P RB10275

--- FLAME v1.1
 * Origin: Telnet toltbbs.com or call 313-854-6001, Boardwatch #55 (1:234/2)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 464 of 469
 From : Bob Klahn                           1:234/2         .pä 07 .âã 96 21:26
 To   : Don Bach
 Subj : BY FORCE OF ARMS
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 BK>> anyone ever fought a war
 BK>>  purely against the growth of the US Govt. They may fight one against

 BK>>  And none of this says the ultimate reason was not to protect slavery.

 DB> I had quoted what Encarta has said about it.  The was *was* against
 DB> growth of the U.S. Government.  And it was certainly to protect
 DB> slavery. Lincoln's administration was geared toward slicing apart

 Ok, I don't have encarta. I do wish I had it, now. I think we've gone on
 enough about this, so, since I don't have encarta, I guess I'll let it drop.

BOB KLAHN   bob.klahn@toltbbs.com

... RH> ... Veni, Vidi, Vegi. (I came, I saw, I had a salad)
 * Silver Xpress V4.3P RB10275

--- FLAME v1.1
 * Origin: Telnet toltbbs.com or call 313-854-6001, Boardwatch #55 (1:234/2)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 465 of 469
 From : Bob Klahn                           1:234/2         .pä 07 .âã 96 21:26
 To   : Nicolai Shapero
 Subj : BY FORCE OF ARMS
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 NS> On <Aug 02 21:05>, Lis Carey (1:101/230) wrote to Kay Shapero:

 LC>>He's not by any means a stupid man, but he IS _seriously_
 LC>>ignorant of
 LC>>how things work anywhere but in Iraq, and could all too easily
 LC>>have
 LC>>misunderstood a signal that Bush and the State Dept. thought was
 LC>>_completely_ clear.

 NS> Had they told him, "if you invade Kuwait, we'll bomb the <bleep> out of
 NS> you", I do believe that he would have understood, but I don't think it
 NS> would have made much of a difference.

 The American representative quite clearly told Hussain his dispute with
 Kuwait was not an American concern. She didn't make it clear there was a
 point at which that would change.

 Seems like a pretty clear signal to me, "we'll stay out of your way."

BOB KLAHN   bob.klahn@toltbbs.com

... Klahn's law of economics - "Any sudden, drastic change is likely to be bad.
 * Silver Xpress V4.3P RB10275

--- FLAME v1.1
 * Origin: Telnet toltbbs.com or call 313-854-6001, Boardwatch #55 (1:234/2)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 466 of 469
 From : Bob Klahn                           1:234/2         .pä 07 .âã 96 21:26
 To   : Nicolai Shapero
 Subj : REALISTIC SPACE SCENE
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 NS> On <Jul 26 01:13>, Leman Russ (1:2250/7) wrote to Nicolai Shapero:

 LR>>"fuzzy logic" camcorder, is a vast improvement over anything
 LR>>available 20 years ago.

 NS> "Fuzzy logic" is a gross misnomer.  Simple proportional control (and
 NS> THAT'S been around for a LONG time...).  Even fuzzy logic (as a
 NS> mathematical discipline) dates back quite a few years.

 In my symbolic logic class the prof told us that 3 state (fuzzy) logic had
 been demonstrated to be superior to two state (binary) logic, but the
 technology to use it was inadequate. That was 15 years ago or so.

BOB KLAHN   bob.klahn@toltbbs.com

... You did WHAT in my name?!? -Jesus
 * Silver Xpress V4.3P RB10275

--- FLAME v1.1
 * Origin: Telnet toltbbs.com or call 313-854-6001, Boardwatch #55 (1:234/2)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 467 of 469
 From : Michael Harper                      1:123/10        .pä 07 .âã 96 20:44
 To   : Brion Lienhart
 Subj : B5 RENEWED
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
While sipping a dry martini, Brion Lienhart told Michael Harper about
B5 RENEWED...

 BL> Actually, several of the major companies have come out with seven and
 BL> eight shot revolvers, mostly in .357 magnum. There have been 10 shot
 BL> revolvers in .22 for years and years.

 Hm. News ta me... but I mostly mean the H'wood shtick of flinging
 bullets around without reloading, something most studios do on a
 regular basis, especially in old gangster flicks and westerns... The
 Lone Stranger has ten desperadoes to whack and only six rounds, and
 somehow gets them all with the one gun... or something I saw in _The
 Sting_ that made me want to go out to Hollywood and beat hell out of
 George Roy Hill, Julia Phillips and Tony Bill; a silenced revolver,
 something that is impossible by 1930's standards. It's not possible,
 even with the current designs in wheelguns. The gas escaping from the
 cylinder is enough to defeat the purpose of the silencer. Little
 idiocies like that are what annoys me worst about Hollywood...

... "Think you used enough dynamite there, Butch?" --Sundance
--- RA/FD/FMail
 * Origin: The Eclectic Fox -- Memphis TN  (901)327-1008 (1:123/10)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 468 of 469
 From : Michael Harper                      1:123/10        .îí 05 .âã 96 18:26
 To   : Jeff Hancock
 Subj : Japanese SF
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
While sipping a dry martini, Jeff Hancock told Michael Harper about Japanese
SF...

 JH> By now you should have seen my rambling about the first episode.  I
 JH> still can't remember the number of eps, but it's like 24 or 26.  It's
 JH> a little more serious in design then I expected, but still good...
 JH> Don't know when he'll get the ship, though.

 JH> Unfortunately, due to echomail and other things, I haven't had time to
 JH> watch any more of it.  Will try to get in another episode tonight, but
 JH> unless there's interest I probably won't keep going on about it. ;)

 Well, if it's any consolation, due to the demands of work I'm not
 getting into my mail as much as I did. I probably missed your comments.
 I'd love to see it...

 JH> I have absolutely no objection to making copies, and the original is
 JH> pretty good quality.

 I've got your surfacemail address somewhere; I'd like copies. I think
 my viewers would get a kick out of it. Run 'em off for me and send me a
 bill. My mailing address is;

        Michael Harper
        1916 Walker
        Memphis, TN 38104


 JH> It may be hard to find.  I'm getting it from Silverwynd, and she's
 JH> only got somewhere around 16 episodes.  Now DP is much rarer, Aquarian
 JH> has the first four, and there are a few individual episodes floating
 JH> around out there, but not the entire 24 or 26 episode season AFAIK.

 Hm. Well, good things are always worth waiting for... I can lay hands
 on the DP movies easily enough, but I want to see the originals. You'd
 think that Harmony Gold or somebody like that would try to Americanize
 Kei and Yuri, but I guess they can't do it without ruining the shows
 completely. Of course, that didn't stop Macek from carving hell outta
 Macross in order to make Robotech... or stop that moron Sandy Frank
 from butchering Gatchaman in order to turn it into Star Force or
 whatever the hell he called it... and on and on. Sorry, this is a sore
 point with me. It's just shy of sacrilege in my book for someone to
 take another's work and piss in it until it's unrecognisable...

 JH> Incredibly much so.  ;)  Dubs?  I've gotten so used to hearing it in
 JH> Japanese that anything animated in English doesn't feel quite right
 JH> anymore. ^_^

 True; I saw Megazone 23 some years back, subbed; when I saw it dubbed a
 couple of years later, it didn't seem right. Conversely, after seeing
 all those episodes of Star Blazers, watching Be Forever Yamato in
 Japanese doesn't feel right...

 JH> For DP dubs though, there's the three that Streamline has out on the
 JH> market.  I would personally recommend Project Eden, which to me is the
 JH> epitome of the DP, with plenty of action, spying, and the usual
 JH> carnage. <g>  After that, Flight 005 Conspiracy, which has a lot of
 JH> investigative work and a bit of a downer ending, but is still fun.  I
 JH> didn't much care for Affair On Nolandia, though.

 I'm planning on getting them all...


 JH> However, if you plan to show them publicly, I'd definitely recommend
 JH> getting approval from Streamline.  They're more fan-friendly then most
 JH> companies (although they don't release subs, they allegedly don't mind
 JH> fansubbers distributing subtitled original versions of anime they've
 JH> adapted and dubbed, unlike every other U.S. anime distributor), but
 JH> it's still a very good idea to consult with them first.  As long as
 JH> admission isn't being charged, it should be fine though.

 I don't charge for the video room; never have. The con costs money to
 get into, but the video room is part of the overall package. If a hotel
 guest who isn't a con member wants to stick his or her head in and
 watch a movie, I have no objections. I'll still contact Strealine, on
 the off chance that they can send me promo copies of new releases. A
 guy in Nashville has gotten prerelease copies of movies from various
 companies in the past, usually with the NOT FOR SALE OR RENTAL line
 across the bottom of the screen... and if he can do it, I know I can...


 JH> The Streamline voices are not bad, but to be honest, the idea of
 JH> English voices of any kind for either of them really doesn't appeal to
 JH> me like it used to.

 No, probably not; but as I only know about three words of Kanji, all of
 them gotten from watching Shogun, it'd be a help to me... although
 seeing them subbed would help me learn the language a bit better. If I
 could focus on the voices and not Kei and Yuri's shapely butts...

 JH> I doubt it could live up to most people's expectations.  The
 JH> small-budgets can't afford to do it right, and the big-budgets get
 JH> hacked to pieces in the process.  Those who would enjoy it the most
 JH> would be those who never saw the original.

 Again true; the people who'd be most likely to want to do it right
 would be the low-budget types who'd do it out of love. If a big studio
 like, say, Paramount got hold of it, it'd be butchered beyond
 recognition. And God help us if Disney got their paws on the Dirty
 Pair...


... "Now THIS is what I call a gun!" --Kei
--- RA/FD/FMail
 * Origin: The Eclectic Fox -- Memphis TN  (901)327-1008 (1:123/10)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 469 of 469
 From : Frank Swarbrick                     1:104/825       .åò 08 .âã 96 21:19
 To   : Don Bach
 Subj : The New Dark Shadows
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12  92-0022
On 08-05-96  20:14, shipwrecked and comatose, Don Bach said:

 FS> I've been watching the new Dark Shadows (from 1991, I think) on the
 FS> Sci-Fi Channel recently.  I must say, I'm *very* presently surprised.
 FS> I've never seen the original daytime version from the 60's, but I'm am
 FS> really enjoying the "new" version.  Too bad it only lasted three
 FS> months.  The cast is, in my opinion, quite good.  They make what could
 FS> be a very hokey idea really fun to watch.

 DB> If you ever watched the original series, you'd be very disappointed in
 DB> the cast.  I don't have a source for this, but I think the original was
 DB> broadcast live.  The camera work was a little off and the you'd see
 DB> some stumbling of lines.  I lived in Dover, Delaware for some of the
 DB> time it was originally broadcast.  The Baltimore ABC affiliate (Channel
 DB> 13?) would show the previous day's episode a half hour before the
 DB> Philadelphia ABC affiliate (Channel 6) would show the current day's
 DB> episode.  Therefore, I could watch it every-other day and play outside
 DB> the opposite days.

Are you saying I'd be disappointed in the original cast, or the remake
cast?

The Sci-Fi Channel shows two episodes of the original every morning.
I haven't watched any yet, but I'm on vacation next week so I may
record a few episodes and watch it.

 FS> I just saw episode 7 tonight, and I doubt there are many more than
 FS> twelve episodes, so I'm going to be rather upset to see it end.  It
 FS> actually seems to be *going* somewhere.

 DB> I tried to watch it when it originally aired.  I don't have a lot of
 DB> time to watch TV now, so I missed a lot of episodes.  I was really
 DB> pleased that they seemed to stick to the original story arc.  However,
 DB> I think they moved too slow for the '90s prime time audience.

Hmm, it didn't seem at all slow to me.  But who knows about "the
masses"...

 FS> Anyhow, anyone else watching it?

 DB> I'm trying, but having difficulty finding the time......

Welp, to late now.  It ended last week, and who knows when they'll
show it again.

        Frank

... Let them eat static!
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12
 * Origin: The Bailey Information Exchange BBS, 28.8k v.fc  (1:104/825.0)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 1 of 317
 From : Nicolai Shapero                     1:102/524       .ÿò 09 .âã 96 05:57
 To   : Tracy Klein
 Subj : Re: nuclear BS
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Aug 07 01:01>, Tracy Klein (1:500/2) wrote to All:

 TK>Will some please tell these people to get off the nuclear
 TK>garbage, this
 TK>is a science fiction fan mail area, not some place to debate the
 TK>pros
 TK>and cons of nuclear power.

I do believe that either you're looking at the wrong conference, or your local
board is not processing outbound these offending messages -- they are not
reaching this station, as it happens.

-- Nicolai Shapero, Moderator of the SFFAN echo

--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 2 of 317
 From : Nicolai Shapero                     1:102/524       .ÿò 09 .âã 96 05:59
 To   : Tracy Klein
 Subj : Re: Star Trek
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Aug 07 01:10>, Tracy Klein (1:500/2) wrote to Christian Raven:

 TK>Watch this season of DS9. I recently read someplace, they will
 TK>send the
 TK>station crew into the Klingon Empire, where they will discover
 TK>the real
 TK>Gouron(hope I spelled that right.) was replaced with a
 TK>changeling.

They already discovered, in the final episode of DS9 this season, that Galron
has been replaced by a changeline.

-- Nicolai Shapero, the Mad Russian Sysop of StormGate Aerie

--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 3 of 317
 From : Nicolai Shapero                     1:102/524       .ÿò 09 .âã 96 06:02
 To   : Steven Ross
 Subj : Basilisk Dreams Books
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Aug 05 23:40>, Steven Ross (1:243/45) wrote to All:

 SR>I'm happy to announce that as of Thursday, Aug. 1st,
 SR>1996, Basilisk
 SR>Dreams Books is now open!

Advertisements for commercial enterpirses are NOT permitted in this conference.

Please do not repeat such postings in future.

Thank you for your cooperation,

-- Nicolai Shapero, Moderator of the SFFAN echo

--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 4 of 317
 From : Kay Shapero                         1:102/524       .ÿò 09 .âã 96 13:08
 To   : Darre LuAllen
 Subj : SF Club questions
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Aug 07 08:13>, Darre LuAllen (1:3637/1) wrote to Kay Shapero:

 DL> Many thanks for your help.  Strangely enough, a friend who owns
 DL> a comics shop is looking to expand his floor space and wants to
 DL> include a little meeting/hangout area.  He was discussing a
 DL> private club, so I made my pitch about a SF club.  He likes the idea,

 DL> so we may be able to pull it off.

Sounds good.  Finding a stable meeting place is usually the biggest problem for
any new club.

 DL> After reading your account of the auction practices, I wish I
 DL>was  still in the area.  (I was stationed in Twentynine Palms for a
 DL>while.)  Yes, I hope to see such sillyness evolve here.

It's been my experience if you have fans hanging around together for awhile this
sort of thing tends to evolve spontaneously.  It's one sign that your club is
working.


 DL> another question:  What kinda activities does the club involve
 DL>itself in?  In other words, what do you do for fun and the typical
 DL>meeting?

That will also vary with the club.  At the LASFS, the typical gathering opens
with the current president whacking the table with the gavel or whatever else
happens to be at hand at the moment, the reading of the minutes of the last
meeting, whatever rowdiness greets the reading of the minutes, the approval of
the minutes as read or amended or whatever, then the most serious of whatever
new business and old business exists, if any, serious committee reports (those
from actual committees), and in some order or other movie reviews, faanish
committee reports (individual fans wishing to share something silly - one
popular "committee" is The Commitee For Surrealism In Modern Life which is the
one I used when reporting on a flock of blackbirds in a small English town that
had started imitating car alarms.. in chorus.. at the dawn...), and other stuff
like that there.  About the only rule is that serious stuff comes first, and
things are discussed at their proper time in the meeting, namely when the
subject is announced.  Auctions aka "money gouges" may pop up at almost any time
in the meeting after the serious stuff.  After the meeting is the program which
can be anything from a large filksing to watching one of Charles Lee Jackson II
(aka "the Emperor")'s compilations of interesting old movies, serials or
whatnot.  Author's readings or presentations are also popular. Just about
anything of interest may turn up sooner or later.

Meanwhile, out front (there are two buildings, plus a couple of trailers, and
the space between them), you can find Bruce Pelz' book table (new books), and
various people's used book sales tables, and a lot of people milling around
talking.  Ninth Nebula, a comic store, is right next door and stays open LASFS
evenings.  There's also the LASFS library, and several computers in the front
room for videogames, word processing or whatever (I don't spend much time in
there; I deal with enough computers during the daytime, thanks. :->)  In general
there are places for people to attend meetings and places for people to sit or
stand around and yak.  Locally Babylon 5 is shown on Thursday nights, so when
there are new episodes someone usually brings a TV and parks it in the Babylon 4
trailer for those who want to watch.

Periodically the LASFS also has a convention, LOSCON, and various weekend events
at the clubhouse.  And Fridays the clubhouse is open for games; usually the
front building has at least one Hell game going (a card game), while the back
building is mostly frp and Magic: The Gathering.  Halloween at the LASFS is
usually a costume event.. and otherwise kinda hard to explain. Ya just have to
be there. :->

But what your club will want to do will depend on who's in it and what they
enjoy.  STAR San Diego, for example, contained a large number of costumers so we
usually had costumes at meetings, discussed them as meeting programs on occasion
and held a yearly costume party.  You could predict something silly would
happen, but not necessarily what it would be or who would do it. (OK, the odds
were good I'd be involved in the sillier stuff, but not ALL of it.  I did lead a
Klingon Raid at the costume party one year - won an award for it too. :->)
Another club I was tangentially involved in had a lot of filmclip collectors in
it, and so generally resembled a small dealer's room at meetings.  You'll likely
have a large number of comics fans in your club, which should also color what
happens.

In general, you need some sort of organization, some way to get serious business
out of the way(and there will always be some I'm afraid), and some sort of
program.  Other than that, it's up to you.  Good luck!

--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 5 of 317
 From : Kay Shapero                         1:102/524       .ÿò 09 .âã 96 13:06
 To   : Nicolai Shapero
 Subj : Re: nuclear BS
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Aug 09 05:57>, Nicolai Shapero (1:102/524) wrote to Tracy Klein:

 TK>Will some please tell these people to get off the nuclear
 TK>garbage, this is a science fiction fan mail area, not some place to
 TK>debate the pros and cons of nuclear power.

 NS>I do believe that either you're looking at the wrong conference,
 NS>or your local board is not processing outbound these offending
 NS>messages -- they are not reaching this station, as it happens.

She may also have gotten hold of a very, very, VERY old bundle - I seem to
recall a problem with this subject sometime last year.

--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 6 of 317
 From : Leman Russ                          1:2250/7        .ÿò 09 .âã 96 04:38
 To   : Owen E. Oulton
 Subj : Re: Basilisk Dreams Books
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Why should he get his "wrist slapped"? If the bookstore caters to SF and fantasy
then it's a valid point here.

>:[

--- DLG Pro v1.0/DLGMail
 * Origin: Sage's Tower - Amiga - (618) 259-1844 (1:2250/7)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 7 of 317
 From : Leman Russ                          1:2250/7        .ÿò 09 .âã 96 04:40
 To   : Jeff Hancock
 Subj : Re: Gundam 0083...
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 Just to help you out, Animga spelled it "Minoffsky particles", and the little
blighters could block Em systems like radar and radio, and even serve as a
propulsion system, according to articles I read.

>:[

--- DLG Pro v1.0/DLGMail
 * Origin: Sage's Tower - Amiga - (618) 259-1844 (1:2250/7)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 8 of 317
 From : Leman Russ                          1:2250/7        .ÿò 09 .âã 96 04:41
 To   : Jeff Hancock
 Subj : Re: Japanese SF
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Well, gets GitS or don't. It really doens't matter to mem and I wasn't taking
your statement to extremes, I was trying to be slightly humorous.

>;[

--- DLG Pro v1.0/DLGMail
 * Origin: Sage's Tower - Amiga - (618) 259-1844 (1:2250/7)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 9 of 317
 From : Leman Russ                          1:2250/7        .ÿò 09 .âã 96 04:43
 To   : Patrick Duda
 Subj : Re: Gundam 0083...
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 If you like macross mecha, do you like the Armored trooper votoms? Those things
were very cool and technically plausible.

>:[

--- DLG Pro v1.0/DLGMail
 * Origin: Sage's Tower - Amiga - (618) 259-1844 (1:2250/7)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 10 of 317
 From : David Johnston                      1:342/14        .óá 10 .âã 96 01:08
 To   : Owen E. Oulton
 Subj : Space: Above And Beyond,
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
-> Vansen (yes, she was the "tough one") and Damphousse (formerly Ensign
-> Rager on ST:TNG) were in the cockpit escape capsule from their
-> transport, making planetfall behind Chig lines.  'Phousse was
-> unconscious, but Vansen was OK and in control of the capsule.  The
-> only character from the Wild Cards to die was

It wasn't certain that they survived re-entry, but I'd class them as
MIA, not KIA.

--- PCBoard (R) v15.21/100
 * Origin: Freddy's Place - Edm. AB - 33.6K (403) 413-3460 (1:342/14)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 11 of 317
 From : Henry Triplett                      1:106/564       .ÿò 09 .âã 96 18:35
 To   : OWEN E. OULTON
 Subj : Japanese SF
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

-=> Quoting Owen E. Oulton to Henry Triplett <=-

 HT> I was dubious when I first heard of Sailor Moon, but it seems to be
 HT> something that grows on you with time.

 OEO> Sorta like fungus or gangrene?  <G,D,R>

Shame on you!  Maligning that poor girl!  :)

Anyway, it beats most of the stuff that calls itself cartoons these days.

Henry

... "Kids can be so cruel."  "We can? Thanks, mom!"

___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20 [NR]
--- GEcho 1.00
 * Origin: Eat Flaming Death    Houston Texas    713-447-1927 (1:106/564)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 12 of 317
 From : Steve James                         1:170/600.30    .óá 10 .âã 96 22:13
 To   : Glenn Shaheen
 Subj : 1984 flick
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On (01 Aug 96) Glenn Shaheen wrote to All...

 GS>         Has anybody seen the movie 1984? If so, was it true to the
 GS> book?

        Well, it's been a while, but if memory serves correctly, I thought it
was pretty faithful. Have you seen it yet, or are you just trying to find out
if it's worth watching? I'd recommend it ...


... "Oh joy! Rapture! I've got a brain!" -- Scarecrow, "The Wizard of Oz"

--- PPoint 2.00
 * Origin: Steve James: Global Village Idiot (1:170/600.30)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 13 of 317
 From : Todd Sullivan                       1:202/720.3     .ÿò 09 .âã 96 19:28
 To   : Tracy Klein
 Subj : nuclear BS
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Reports from the Interior indicate that Tracy Klein leaked the following to All,
re: nuclear BS

 TK> Will some please tell these people to get off the nuclear garbage, this
 TK> is a science fiction fan mail area, not some place to debate the pros
 TK> and cons of nuclear power.
 TK> It is getting sick and tiring, sitting here in front of the computer
 TK> looking at this forum and seeing nuclear crap in it.

Let the Moderator handle this area, Missy.

Todd Sullivan
Email: Todd.Sullivan@202-720.mx1.fidonet.org

... "With man, most of his misfortunes are occasioned by man."
     --Pliny the Elder

-*- ASTG 1.9

--- Spot 1.3a Unregistered
 * Origin: Todd's Spot in the Continuum (1:202/720.3)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 14 of 317
 From : Todd Sullivan                       1:202/720.3     .ÿò 09 .âã 96 19:31
 To   : David Johnston
 Subj : By Force Of Arms
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Reports from the Interior indicate that David Johnston leaked the following to
Kevin Ahearn, re: By Force Of Arms

 ->> IIRC, the law went something like, "thou shalt not make a machine in
 ->> the image of a man's mind."  That could certainly allow non-thinking
 ->> number-crunchers like what we have today.

 DJ> Hard to say.  Dune wasn't exactly hard sf, so nobody had cause to whip
 DJ> out a calculator.  They appeared to have a blanket prohibition on
 DJ> computers though, but then they also went around bopping each other
 DJ> with swords, so ...

The reason for the use of blades was because it would go through the personal
force fields without causing any of the literally explosive reactions caused by
laser/blaster guns.  IIRC, the interactions of the two energies caused
explosions in the kiloton range.

Todd Sullivan
Email: Todd.Sullivan@202-720.mx1.fidonet.org

... "A mugwump is a person educated beyond his intellect." --Horace Porter

-*- ASTG 1.9

--- Spot 1.3a Unregistered
 * Origin: Todd's Spot in the Continuum (1:202/720.3)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 15 of 317
 From : Jeff Hancock                        1:3600/7        .óá 10 .âã 96 01:33
 To   : Patrick Duda
 Subj : Gundam 0083...
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

PD>-> of the Albion tells them to "release the Minoskvy particles", and
PD> As a physicist by hobby I can say i've never heard of minoskvy
PD>particles. Sounds like a treknology kind of thing.

I guessed that much.  ^_^  But I was wondering if you knew what they
were in the *story* context.  Perhaps they're a relatively new invention
and will be explained later in the story, although it seems obvious that
they serve as a form of ECM/chaff and that's really all one needs to
know.

PD>-> Universal in what sense?  What's the base of reference?
PD> I dunno, it was a guess! :) Probably start at the beggings of time
PD>and call it 0. Who knows what the standard unit would be (24hours, 6
PD>hours)?

If it can be pinned down that exactly, in solar-terrestrial years... so
you're suggesting that 0083 is merely the last four digits of an
incredibly huge number?

Way I see it, either it stands for 10083  (implying either civilization
fell and rose again or we advanced REALLY slowly, although given the
current state of space exploration it might well take that long), or
there was some form of revelation which resulted in a new numbering
system.  Perhaps the year antigravity was invented, or space travel
finally became practical, or the War to End All Wars part III.  Who
knows, but I'd like to.

PD>-> What do you mean by newer?  Gundam 0083 was apparently made in
PD>->1990... and the Dirty Pair TV series was made sometime in the 80s
PD> Hmmmm.. i'd say newer as in 1992+. DP was an exceptionaly good anime

Well, both of these are still older.  ;)  I don't judge by age all that
much in that respect, although the newer ones tend to *look* better.

As far as DP good, wonder why it only lasted one season then?  Same with
Irresponsible Captain Tailor.  Guess it just goes to show that the
Japanese don't necessarily have better taste than Americans when it
comes to television series being popular or not.

PD>Gundam is back to the 70's I think. Its was, I believe, the
PD>originator of all the present day 'mecha'.

That's kind of what I've heard, but mostly in the form of hints rather
than any hard facts.

PD>-> Anything in particular you find wrong with them?  They're a bit
PD>->stylistic, but they haven't seemed like they were poorly designed
PD> WEll, it's always been my opinion of them. I think styleized is the
PD>perfect word for it. I simply don't think that they're, uh, efficient

<g>

PD>designs. All those little things sticking out and surplus parts to
PD>break. I supposed I prefer the simpler lines of the Macross mecha. I

Most of the Gundam 0083 mecha actually look, to my eye, to be sort of
utilitarian and "basic" in design.  The newer, experimental Gundam suits
had all the flanges and wings and fancy "stuff" on 'em, though.

PD>great population to have mecha like that just doesn't seem right.
PD>Imagine having to animate that! I don't quite remember the designs of

Well, apparently they *do* animate it... ;)  Creativity winning out over
practicality, I suppose.

PD>the Gunbuster mecha, but I liked those.

I keep hearing about this occasionally, one of these days I'm going to
have to try special-ordering it since they never seem to have them at
the store.

PD>-> If there are no cruise missiles, then exactly what did the Zion
PD>->submarine launch against the test facility?  It looked to me like
PD> I dunno. I haven't seen the GD0083. I was just trying to provide an

Oh, I was hoping you had.  Darnitall, I want someone to help me analyze
and dissect this series who hasn't seen it all and won't spoil it!  ;-)

PD>explanation. Of course, on macross (the original first
PD>movie/generation) they had the open bridge, and had lots of fights
PD>right on the hull of the ship itself. Maybe it's just luck! :)

Soo ne.  This may be just a case of projecting current technological
designs into the future, since in some ways they strongly resemble
space-going aircraft carriers.  Still, in current tech, if it gets close
enough to threaten the bridge then you're in big trouble anyway, while
these anime series frequently have combat right around the ship itself
as opposed to stand-off combat.

PD> I think in space some of that explosive flak stuff would be
PD>devestatingly effective. Or little homing missles, like the size of a
PD>beer can (not those macross missle either :)

It ought to be.  I just assumed they had light (low-mass) super-armor
which held up to the kinetic impact of space debris.  ;)

PD> Well, I can bet that a full auto gun is going to be anything but
PD>easy to wield in space, but that's what crosshairs and computer aided

In space is one thing, the first four episodes of this have all been
planetbound!

PD>targeting is for! I guess it's suposed to make the show more dramatic
PD>of the guys can't shoot for nothing.

What's funny is, in a few of the cases the guys COULD shoot, but they
still missed... apparently being chalked up to the skill of the target,
although they weren't maneuvering all THAT skillfully.  Perhaps there
was a lot of computer-tracking and ECM jamming going on that the viewer
was supposed to assume, as opposed to raw skill.

-=-
 * Crazy-J * ....Stolen from the Soul Hunter's Pawn Shop and Emporium.

--- SLMAIL v3.5C  (#1540)
 * Origin: Robotech  -=-Fansubbed anime available upon request-=- (1:3600/7)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 16 of 317
 From : Jeff Hancock                        1:3600/7        .óá 10 .âã 96 01:52
 To   : Darre Luallen
 Subj : Japanese SF
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
I should go ahead and mention that I finished watching Irresponsible
Captain Tailor, and I need to reverse my earlier assessment. ;)

It is DEFINITELY comedy/parody.  It has a few serious or semi-serious
threads, but the majority of it is pure hilarity.  The first episode
fooled me by having the mix a little more even.

Heresy though it may be, I think I love this series more than the
Dirty Pair, although none of the individual characters live up to Kei
and/or Yuri.  Justy Ueki Tailor, though, is practically in a class by
himself... a perfect example of Niven's "luck" gene if I've ever seen
it, and a meeting between him and the DP would be pure insanity.

DL> The Japanese love stories about heroic and sexy women.  <This broad
DL>and sweeping generalization brought to you by the Council for
DL>Oversimplification, Minipax>

I don't see anything particularly wrong with that assessment, although I
might add that they seem to prefer them somewhat young as well, so much
so that there have been accusations of them fostering Lolita complexes.
One show actually had a 14-year old ex-prostitute, whose age was upped
to 16 or 17 when it was brought over here.

DL> DL> Several examples come to mind.  One such parady had Captain
DL> DL>Harlock going against the Falcon and Deathstar.  Another used the
DL> I've only seen them at cons, and then only in the video rooms.  I'd
DL>say yu just have to know somebody who has them.

I may, and I stress may, be getting this one.  At least, I've ordered a
tape listed as "Corn Pone Flix B.A.D. III and other stuff", and I
recently heard that CPF is the group that did this parody.

B.A.D.: Bad American Dubbing, a compilation of the most inane dialogue
ever to be shoved in a character's mouth.  The one example I heard of
was "See those dead bodies in there?  If they move, kill them again."

DL> JH> The one I want to see is the fan parody "Dirty Pair Does
DL> JH>Dishes"... <g>
DL> Weird.  Let me know if you decide to get it.  I'd love to know what
DL>it's about.

The Dirty Pair, doing dishes?  ;)  Dunno.  Apparently these fan-parodies
are edited compilations of clips from various episodes with new dialogue
subbed or even dubbed in to make a new story.  I've begun the process of
attemping to request this one, along with "Ranma 1/3: Notes from the
Closet", "Laputa 2", "Robotech 3", and other things.

If this order ever gets through, the next one will probably include
"Dirty Pair: The Arrest of Mr. Macek", "Voltron: Hell Bent for Leather",
and "Nausicaa Does the Valley of the Wind".  (okay, so I made that last
one up. ;)

DL> JH>Nevertheless I'd like to see what they did with Weird Al's "Slime
DL> JH>Creatures from Outer Space".
DL> Weirder still.  I don't know if my mind could handle to horror. <g>

I also made a request for a tape of the videos.  The ones I'm really
looking forward to are "Born to be Wild" (Bubblegum Crisis), "Danger
Zone" (Macross II), "I'm Too Sexy" (Ranma 1/2), "Notorious" (Dirty
Pair), "We Belong" (Oh! My Goddess), and "Xmas at Ground Zero" (various).

The ones I really don't get, yet, having not seen the anime in question
and having no idea how they could find appropriate footage, are "Brady
Bunch" (Weird Al version, with scenes from Robotech II), "Lasagna"
(Weird Al again, video from Akira), "Secret Agent Man" (Midnight Gokku),
and "Silent Running" (City Hunter).

-=-
 * Crazy-J * Louisville Slugger: Official Choice of the Narn Bat Squad

--- SLMAIL v3.5C  (#1540)
 * Origin: Robotech  -=-Fansubbed anime available upon request-=- (1:3600/7)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 17 of 317
 From : Jeff Hancock                        1:3600/7        .óá 10 .âã 96 02:05
 To   : Darre Luallen
 Subj : Japanese SF
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

DL> Also explains the word Kohi (sp) used in _Rising Sun_.  The Kohi was

Maybe.  -ko as a suffix may mean child, but I don't know if it can be
used as a prefix.

DL>Unfortunately, this is where you loose me, as my Japanese is
DL>practically non existant.  Although I spent a year in Japan, Okinawa

Mine is not much better, although I do a halfway job at faking it. ;)
And, I've got help.  There's a web page set up with weekly lessons, and
I'm trying to learn a little.

DL>  I do think I developed an ear for it.

This is what I wish I had.  Without knowing the words, they all just run
together and make no sense at all.  Nowadays, I can sometimes recognize
a few words out of the garble, but it's still not much.  It's always a
pleasure to realize you understood even a small part of what was said,
though.

DL> JH> whole "plot outline" feel of it, "Girl A fights with B over C".
DL> Perhaps they were in such a hurry that they went from the pitch
DL>straight to final draft.

<g>  I don't think so, I think that's just part of the joke.  Although
it's always possible.  The word I hear is, Project A-ko was originally
intended as one of the "Cream Lemon" shows, a series of anime based
around sex.  Along the way they realized they could do a lot more with
it, and most of the lemon was dropped, the main remnants being B-ko's
attraction to C-ko.  This probably also helps explain the teacher being
a character from some other sex-based anime, probably another Cream
Lemon.

DL> JH> Love child of everyone?  Everyone's child of love?
DL> Perhaps "Child who loves everyone".  As for understanding kanji

Perhaps.  Right now I should probably just concentrate on individual
words and not worry too much about puzzling out the grammar.  ;)

DL>symbols, you've completely lost me.  I can usually tell the Japanese
DL>characters from Chinese or Korean.  Other than that, forget it.

I can't even do that much, so don't feel bad.

DL> BTW, I managed to delete the list of fansubs you sent me.  I

It's probably just as well, I stupidly underguessed the amount it took
to mail an individual tape, and went a little in the hole on one of the
few orders I did get.  So aside from a few tweaks, I've also revised the
list, added new titles, disclaimers, a few other things.  Will shoot it
back your way.

DL>loose lipped do you want me to be?  I know several people around here
DL>who are anime fans.  Many don't have access to FIDO or the Net.
DL>Basically, do I tell others?

I don't object at all.  Well, if I started getting two dozen orders
every week, that might be a problem, but other than that, the more the
merrier.  I was hoping to encourage new fans, but this is a way of doing
that.

If it becomes a "chore", I'll just let you know and you can pass along
the word to ease off on the orders. ;-)  But that probably won't happen.

-=-
 * Crazy-J * Echomailing by moonlight, sleeping all through daylight..

--- SLMAIL v3.5C  (#1540)
 * Origin: Robotech  -=-Fansubbed anime available upon request-=- (1:3600/7)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 18 of 317
 From : Jeff Hancock                        1:3600/7        .óá 10 .âã 96 02:09
 To   : Patrick Duda
 Subj : Japanese SF
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

PD> Well, i'm not exactly a fanatic watcher of it, but it's simply
PD>factually the best and most intelligent cartoon on NA TV. Where else

<shudder>  If you only KNEW....

And even if it was unaltered, one would be likely to quibble on that
assessment.  But then I haven't kept up with the vast wasteland of NA
cartoons in quite some time, so maybe it is.  Still, <shiver>.
-=-
 * Crazy-J * "Your master must be very sophisticated."--Kakeru to Luna

--- SLMAIL v3.5C  (#1540)
 * Origin: Robotech  -=-Fansubbed anime available upon request-=- (1:3600/7)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 19 of 317
 From : Jeff Hancock                        1:3600/7        .óá 10 .âã 96 02:14
 To   : Patrick Duda
 Subj : Japanese SF
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

PD> I got it yesterday. It's interesting enough, definately Masmune
PD>Shriow stuff. It's a lot like Akira, a great movie based on a Manga

That may not be the best recommendation in either event. ;)

I've heard cheers and jeers for his work (are you sure that's the right
spelling?), I think the jeers mostly involve not liking the "atmosphere"
and some claims of stupid technogarble excuses.  Haven't seen any
myself, so can't say.

Akira appears to be quite reputable, on the one hand for great
animation, on the other for a muddled story.  Apparently the manga
explains things a lot better and makes more sense, so I guess this
qualifies as the anime equivalent of "Dune".

PD>I think it's something that should have (like akria) been done
PD>justice by making several movies about it, instead of the cram job

This is along the same lines as a few of the things I've heard about
Akira, pity that GITS fell the same way.

PD>  siskel and Ebert liked it? huh. I had to watch it twice to actually
PD>understand the emphasis of the movie, being just what is a human? As

Rewatching never usually hurts, and some anime can be very confusing the
first time around.

PD>  Anyway, it's not really something i'd like to buy. It's somethign

Then, maybe I'll rent, if it shows up around here.
-=-
 * Crazy-J * "Your Tagline is so cute!!!  Gimmie!  Gimmie!!!" - Azusa

--- SLMAIL v3.5C  (#1540)
 * Origin: Robotech  -=-Fansubbed anime available upon request-=- (1:3600/7)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 20 of 317
 From : Jeff Hancock                        1:3600/7        .óá 10 .âã 96 02:24
 To   : Patrick Duda
 Subj : Realistic space scen
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

PD>-> PD> Uh oh. Looks like I said the 'A' word! Stirrin' the pot. But
PD>-> What'sis supposed to mean?
PD> Anime. I know some people who start foaming at the mouth when you
PD>say that, anyway... <g>  heh heh

...haven't seen any HERE.  Now many anime fen act that way about the
word "Japanimation", but...

PD>-> Are you aware of the fansubbing community?
PD> Yes and no. Yes, I am, but no, I've never asked anyone. First, I
PD>dunno how to go about doing it, and i'm sorta impatient. :) Second, I

Doing it is fairly simple.  (at least with web access)  You check their
web page, read their rules, follow the rules, print out the request, pop
in a check/mo, mail it off, wait a month or two, you get your tapes.
(hopefully ;)

But you do have to have patience.  They wouldn't offer if they didn't
mind, but they do mind people hasslin' them without due cause.  (as
would you if you were getting in and shipping out dozens of copies a
week as a hobby)

Without web access, you have to depend on secondhand information.  I
don't know how the mail-only clubs handle it, but I make it a point to
always check the web page before placing an order, as rules and titles
are always subject to change.

PD>hate asking anyone who is listed to do ANOTHER copy, when they're
PD>probably already busy to the next century. I'd prefer to find someone

Again, they wouldn't offer if they didn't mind.  Just do it in the way
they tell you, and there should be no problem.  The ones who are
*really* busy usually won't take orders until they clear up their
backlog.

PD>far. I don't mind buying lots of tapes, but when you need to get a

Well, fansubs aren't competing with commercial companies in that sense.
They offer alternatives that can't BE acquired commercially, with the
exception of imports and those are not as much good if you can't speak-a
the language.  Many shows have started out as fansubs and been picked up
commercially, though, so fansubbing helps establish a market (and in
some cases kills it, at least some companies claim they don't want
certain titles because they've been "fansubbed to death")

PD>series, and they sell 2 eps per $20 tape, it's a bit outrageous (esp.

Yes, it is.  But it's a business, and anime is a niche market over here.
Besides, they're expensive in Japan too.

PD>for robotech). Are laserdics still $300 a piece for the nicer series?
PD>(like R-tech)  Even more than the tapes, though, I like to get CD's

$300?  Not that *I* know of... the most I've ever heard of is in the $80
range for subtitled (frequently dubbed on SAP) U.S. re-released anime
titles, and $130 or so for an imported LD.  I also heard of someone who
said they bought an entire (imported) TV series on LD for about $780,
something like 30 or 40 episodes, but it was not a well-known commodity.

-=-
 * Crazy-J * "Shinjitsu wa soko ni aru.  Dare mo shinjiru na."

--- SLMAIL v3.5C  (#1540)
 * Origin: Robotech  -=-Fansubbed anime available upon request-=- (1:3600/7)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 21 of 317
 From : Jean Graham                         1:202/1313      .ÿò 09 .âã 96 23:06
 To   : All
 Subj : Any Forever Knight Fans Here?
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Would like to hear from some fans of this series, if you're here. Ace Books will
be putting out a series of paperback novelizations based on FOREVER KNIGHT next
year.  What would you like to see in them?

Post here or e-mail me at JeanB7@aol.com

Thanks!
  --Jean Graham

--- JMail-H 2.80d [EVAL DAY 6]
 * Origin: Written Worlds BBS - 619.697.4073 (FIDONET 1:202/1313)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 22 of 317
 From : Bob Klahn                           1:234/2         .óá 10 .âã 96 22:38
 To   : James Walton
 Subj : SF CLUB QUESTIONS
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 JW> Re Club Dues:

 BK>>  Cheap is important. I recently saw a civic group just fall
 BK>> apart when the  board of directors set the dues at $60/yr.

 JW> Yes, I've seen this too.  Some clubs have gone to time payments, that
 JW> is, giving the members 6 months or so to pay the complete dues.  This
 JW> works much better, altough the treasurer much work much harder.

 That isn't likely to work for an SF club, unless there was something really
 spectacular about it. The high dues would kill the club even with time
 payments. Our local club had dues of $5.00/yr. That plus provide a years
 worth of stamps for the newsletter.

BOB KLAHN   bob.klahn@toltbbs.com

... Give me liberty or give me...  HEY!  CAN'T YA TAKE A JOKE??!!
 * Silver Xpress V4.3P RB10275

--- FLAME v1.1
 * Origin: Telnet toltbbs.com or call 313-854-6001, Boardwatch #55 (1:234/2)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 23 of 317
 From : Bob Klahn                           1:234/2         .óá 10 .âã 96 22:38
 To   : Lis Carey
 Subj : BY FORCE OF ARMS
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 LC> But part of the difference was not in the laws, but in the assumptions:
 LC> in the USA, the assumption was that, basically, government was the
 LC> concern of everyone, even if some people couldn't quite manage the
 LC> requirements for voting; in Britain, the assumption was that government
 LC> was the proper concern only of the "better" classes of people. This
 LC> assumption didn't begin to be seriously attacked until the Chartist
 LC> movement, some time _after_ the end of the Napoleonic Wars [to which the
 LC> War of 1812 was a footnote.]

 You know, this has been a great discussion. One of the most interesting and
 informative I have had on Fido. It has been educational, entertaining, yet
 maintained a level of civilized disagreement. Too bad it's off topic. I
 don't think it started that way, but I think I'll let it go before we have
 to change this to the history echo. Thanks for the education.

BOB KLAHN   bob.klahn@toltbbs.com

... Race is an idea whose time has passed. <New People Magazine>
 * Silver Xpress V4.3P RB10275

--- FLAME v1.1
 * Origin: Telnet toltbbs.com or call 313-854-6001, Boardwatch #55 (1:234/2)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 24 of 317
 From : Bob Klahn                           1:234/2         .óá 10 .âã 96 22:38
 To   : Owen E. Oulton
 Subj : BY FORCE OF ARMS
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 BK>> What is the difference between a republican democracy and a
 BK>> parliamentary
 BK>> democracy?

 BK>> Why are they exclusive? Don't forget, the democrace is real, the
 BK>> monarchy
BK>> is a figurehead. It's a matter of substance and image.

 OEO> By definition, a republic does not have a monarch as head of state.

 Not as a real head of state, but anyone can be a figurehead.

 OEO> That is one of the fundamental underpinnings of a republic and, BTW,
 OEO> democracy is not necessary to a republic.  Oh, and a constitutional

 A point I have made in other echos.

 OEO> monarch isn't strictly a figurehead.  They have some rather sweeping
 OEO> powers, which are, to be sure, rarely exercised, but they are there...
 OEO>  Ask the New Zealanders.

 Well, those powers only really exist because they are rarely exercised. If
 they were exercised regularly they would be taken away.

 OEO> However, this is veering widely from anything remotely on topic, snd
 OEO> to get into long definitions would merely take it farther afield.  I
 OEO> do, however, reccommend a stint of reading on political science at the
 OEO> library.

 Why, since much of what you said I agree with or already knew, or only
 disagree with in details, it seems you confirm the correctness of my views.
 Therefore I conclude I must be reasonably correct and well informed on the
 subject.

 Besides, I don't have enough time to do what I want, lestwise what I
 'should' do.

BOB KLAHN   bob.klahn@toltbbs.com

... Help Wanted: Telepath.  You know where to apply.
 * Silver Xpress V4.3P RB10275

--- FLAME v1.1
 * Origin: Telnet toltbbs.com or call 313-854-6001, Boardwatch #55 (1:234/2)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 25 of 317
 From : Bob Klahn                           1:234/2         .óá 10 .âã 96 22:38
 To   : Kevin Ahearn
 Subj : BY FORCE OF ARMS
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 BK>>  Go back to _Dune_ and their prohibition of machines
 BK>> built with a mind like a
 BK>>  human. IOW, the Mentats existed because of a
 BK>> prohibition of computers. One
 BK>>  part I found particularly unrealistic.

 KA> Was there a ban on ALL computers, or just artificial intelligences?
 KA> IIRC, the law went something like, "thou shalt not make a machine in
 KA> the image of a man's mind."  That could certainly allow non-thinking
 KA> number-crunchers like what we have today.

 My recollection was just about any computers. It's pretty hard to stop the
 development of higher power computers once you let the little ones in. Look
 at how far we've come already.

BOB KLAHN   bob.klahn@toltbbs.com

... Vegetarians eat vegetables - Beware of humanitarians.
 * Silver Xpress V4.3P RB10275

--- FLAME v1.1
 * Origin: Telnet toltbbs.com or call 313-854-6001, Boardwatch #55 (1:234/2)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 26 of 317
 From : Bob Klahn                           1:234/2         .óá 10 .âã 96 22:38
 To   : Darre Luallen
 Subj : SF CLUB QUESTIONS
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 DL>  On 08-04-96 Bob Klahn wrote to Darre Luallen...
 DL>
 BK>>  From my experience with clubs, SF and otherwise.
 DL>
 DL>  All suggestions entertained equally.  Would you like yours to see a
 DL>  movie or take in a play?

 Actually a concert or a dance performance.

 DL>>  To start with, how often does the club meet?
 DL>
 BK>> Regularity is more important than frequency, but once a month is
 BK>> normal, once a week is possible. Any less and the membership will
 BK>> start to drift away.
 DL>
 DL>  Fiber, yes.  ;>  I was thinking every other week; alternating days.

 Consarn smart alecky durn....

 DL>  Ex.: Second Wednesday and Fourth Thursday.

 Confusion is a great Con near Detroit, but a sure killer for club meetings.
 Chose one or a simple pattern and stick with it. No alternating days. Every
 other week is ok, maybe, because people will come the week they want.

 DL>>  What activities does the club participate in?
 DL>
 BK>> Go to SF movies, show videos, *discuss the subject*, and go out to
 BK>> dinner.

 DL>  Sounds like just a larger version of my circle of friends, which I

 Yep.

 DL>  suppose it is intended to be.  Regular schedule or majority rules?

 Regular schedual plus what ever. You can't really say majority rules
 On outings as anyone who wants to will go even if it's only two members. Go
 for concensus, but when some don't want to go, they won't. OTOH, you do want
 to do some minority favored activities sometimes to be fair, and to expose
 yourselves to alternative activities.

 BK>>  Don't underestimate the importance of social activities.

 DL>  The whole reason for trying to start this puppy.

  Sounds like a good attitude.

 DL>> Is the club sponsored in any way?  What are dues and where do they go?

 BK>> Cheap is important. I recently saw a civic group just fall apart
 BK>> when the board of directors set the dues at $60/yr.

 DL>  Yikes.  I wasn't thinking anything nearly so high.  Luckily, a local
 DL>  comics shop is also looking to start a club.  I just might be able to
 DL>  talk him into expanding his idea.

 Sounds good. Maybe get the other book stores into it also.

 BK>>  Also, don't underestimate the importance of food.
 DL>
 DL>  Gotchya.  (Wasn't he a Soviet Premier?)  Keep'em fed and happy.
 DL>  Cookouts, dinners at diners, snack food....

 You got it.

BOB KLAHN   bob.klahn@toltbbs.com

... Remember, take an asprin *BEFORE* the novacain wears off.
 * Silver Xpress V4.3P RB10275

--- FLAME v1.1
 * Origin: Telnet toltbbs.com or call 313-854-6001, Boardwatch #55 (1:234/2)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 27 of 317
 From : Nicolai Shapero                     1:102/524       .óá 10 .âã 96 09:06
 To   : Owen E. Oulton
 Subj : Japanese SF
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Aug 08 04:37>, Owen E. Oulton (1:243/45) wrote to Darre LuAllen:

 OE>brush up on your NewSpeak, Darre.  Confusing the ministries is
 OE>doubleplusungood.

Crimethinkful.

-- Nicolai Shapero, the Mad Russian Sysop of StormGate Aerie

--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 28 of 317
 From : Michael Harper                      1:123/10        .cê 11 .âã 96 06:20
 To   : Darre LuAllen
 Subj : Japanese SF
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
While sipping a dry martini, Darre LuAllen told Michael Harper about
Japanese SF...

 DL> I just didn't want to get in trouble.  The Tenn Tech SF Club is
 DL> putting on a gaming/comics expo and want to have a video room.  I
 DL> didn't want them to get into trouble.

 No problem. For cons, most people don't care. Get the biggest bigscreen
 you can find for it, a audio/video receiver, at least two vcr's, and if
 possible two large primary speakers and a couple of small fill speakers
 for the rear of the room; that'll give you good surround sound. And if
 your a/v receiver has a center channel capability, get a subwoofer.
 Make sure your video room is away from everything else so nobody'll
 come banging on your door yelling at you to turn the damn thing down...

 DL> BTW, have you ever seen Captain Harlock vs. the Death Star or other
 DL> such fan kit-bashes?

 Ghod, those things have been around forever... Back in the Sixties and
 Seventies they had all sorts of fanfiction like that, including a whole
 subgenre that was nothing but Kirk/Spock gay sex...

 MH>  Hm... Yeah, you're right. Milano would do very nicely as Kei.
 DL>
 DL> Especially if she went back to her "Who's the Boss" character with
 DL> perhaps a bit of her worldly experiences peeking through.

 Yeah. Very definitely. Or Jennifer Tilly; with her kinda high-pitched
 voice, she'd do well. Meg Ryan's another.

 MH>  Silverstone was just the first one that came to mind...
 DL>
 DL> Understandable.  I've just never been a Silverstone fan.  Different
 DL> tastes, I guess.

 Possibly. I'm not a fan of hers, either. I was thinking more in terms
 of vocal talents. Acting skills didn't occur to me...

 DL> I have to admit, you're right.  It would be interesting.  I'd pay
 DL> full price to see it.  Perhaps the appropriate modifications could be
 DL> done with CGI.  I've seen pictures of two women who did the Lovely
 DL> Angels at a Dragon*Con.  Aside from the obvious physical limitations
 DL> and the fact they weren't teen-agers, they looked really good.

 I wonder how many guys trailed after them with their tongues dragging
 on the carpet... There's a chick who shows up here from time to time
 dressed as Vampirella; she's got a bod like a Bunny, and in that
 skintight Vampi suit she looks good enough to eat... Problem is she's
 already got a squeeze, and he looks like Conan...


... "Somehow I can't imagine you ever being little, Bowler." -Brisco
--- RA/FD/FMail
 * Origin: The Eclectic Fox -- Memphis TN  (901)327-1008 (1:123/10)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 29 of 317
 From : Brion Lienhart                      1:213/700.2     .óá 10 .âã 96 15:25
 To   : Michael Harper
 Subj : B5 RENEWED
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On Wed Aug 07, Michael Harper said to Brion Lienhart:

 BL> Actually, several of the major companies have come out with seven and
 BL> eight shot revolvers, mostly in .357 magnum. There have been 10 shot
 BL> revolvers in .22 for years and years.

 -MH> Hm. News ta me... but I mostly mean the H'wood shtick of flinging
 -MH> bullets around without reloading, something most studios do on a
 -MH> regular basis, especially in old gangster flicks and westerns... The
 -MH> Lone Stranger has ten desperadoes to whack and only six rounds, and

I agree with you on that, I'm annoyed at all of the stupid things Hollywood does
with firearms too. However, just be aware that there are revolvers with more
than six shots. There was even a "semi-automatic revolver", the top part of the
frame and cylinder recoiled on a track and cocked the hammer and advanced the
cylinder. It was a british weapon.



--- QM v1.31
 * Origin: Ministry of Peace - Carson City, NV (1:213/700.2)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 30 of 317
 From : Frank Swarbrick                     1:104/825       .óá 10 .âã 96 11:52
 To   : All
 Subj : on Sci-Fi Channel
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12  92-0022
Just heard that the Sci-Fi Channel has aquired the rights to the
reruns of Earth 2, seaQuest, and MANTIS.

If anyone's interested, that is.  I wasn't a fan of any of those
shows.  Now if they could get the rights to good shows like VR.5,
American Gothic and Nowhere Man!  :-)

        Frank

... ALL DONE - BYE BYE!
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12
 * Origin: The Bailey Information Exchange BBS, 28.8k v.fc  (1:104/825.0)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 31 of 317
 From : Leman Russ                          1:2250/7        .óá 10 .âã 96 04:56
 To   : David Johnston
 Subj : Re: Gundam 0083...
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Monoffsky particles also had another effect: they fouled radar and radio beyond
use. That was why newtypes had an advantage: Their psionics could detect objects
in space without radar.

"Death the the bad guys!" Leona Ozaki.

--- DLG Pro v1.0/DLGMail
 * Origin: Sage's Tower - Amiga - (618) 259-1844 (1:2250/7)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 32 of 317
 From : David Johnston                      1:342/14        .cê 11 .âã 96 00:13
 To   : Bob Klahn
 Subj : By Force Of Arms
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
-> DJ> accurately be described as an oligarchy with some democratic
-> trappings,
-> Which is a form of dictatorship.

So is every government, if you define things loosely enough.  A real
dictatorship is one in which one individual (the dictator) dictates.

--- PCBoard (R) v15.21/100
 * Origin: Freddy's Place - Edm. AB - 33.6K (403) 413-3460 (1:342/14)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 33 of 317
 From : Owen E. Oulton                      1:243/45        .cê 11 .âã 96 14:01
 To   : Bob Klahn
 Subj : BY FORCE OF ARMS
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 OEO> By definition, a republic does not have a monarch as head of state.

 BK>  Not as a real head of state, but anyone can be a figurehead.

Whether the monarch in question is an absolute monarch or (as you put it) a
figurehead, if the head of state (*NOT* the head of government, that's a
completely different job) is a monarch, the state is *NOT* by definition a
republic.

France is a republic; its head of state is a president and its head of
        government is a prime minister.
Russia is a republic; its head of state and government is a president.
The United States is a republic; its head of state and government is a
        president.
The Peoples' Republic of China is a republic; its head of state is a chairman
        and its head of government is the party secretary.

The United Kindom is NOT a republic; its head of state is a queen and its head
        of government is a prime minister.
Canada is NOT a republic; its head of state is a queen (same one as the UK's,
        as it happens) and its head of government is a prime minister.
Japan is NOT a republic; its head of state is an emperor and its head of
        government is a prime minister.

 BK> Why, since much of what you said I agree with or already knew, or only
 BK> disagree with in details, it seems you confirm the correctness of my
 BK> views.
 BK> Therefore I conclude I must be reasonably correct and well informed on the
 BK>  subject.

Bob, I have stated that the facts are diametrically opposed to your statements.
It is therefore quite obvious to that A) you are not actually reading what I'm
posting, or B) you do not understand what I'm saying or C) you're simply
choosing to ignore my statements.  Whichever is the case, I see no reason to
carry on with this converstation.

CFN, O

--- Maximus 2.01wb
 * Origin: Pandora's Box, Ottawa, Ont. 613-829-1209 (1:243/45)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 34 of 317
 From : Don Bach                            1:3632/65       .cê 11 .âã 96 13:39
 To   : Frank Swarbrick
 Subj : The New Dark Shadows
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Hi, Frank!

 FS> Are you saying I'd be disappointed in the original cast, or the remake
 FS> cast?

The remake cast as compared to the original.

 FS> The Sci-Fi Channel shows two episodes of the original every morning.
 FS> I haven't watched any yet, but I'm on vacation next week so I may
 FS> record a few episodes and watch it.

Keep in mind this was a soap opera that aired daily.  It moves slow and left a
cliff hangar *every* day.  You'll need to watch several weeks (over 10 episodes)
to get in sync.  If you'll put up with some poor camera work and stumbling of
lines, I think you will enjoy it!

Jonthan Frid, who played Barnabus, visited Sally Star's Popeye theater on
Philadelphia's Channel 6 one day and demonstrated how he could swoop back with
his cape, insert his teeth which he kept in a vial in his pocket and swoop out
Watch for this action when you watch the original series.  Most of the time, the
camera was on the victim, but you can see shadows.  Barnabus with fangs always
emerges from behing cape.

 FS> Welp, to late now.  It ended last week, and who knows when they'll
 FS> show it again.

Hopefully soon!

Don


--- Maximus 3.01
 * Origin: No Regrets, Clinton, MS (601)924-8247 9P-5A (1:3632/65)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 35 of 317
 From : Don Bach                            1:3632/65       .cê 11 .âã 96 14:14
 To   : Jeff Hancock
 Subj : Irresponsible Cap. Tailor
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 JH> Also saw the first episode of Irresponsible Captain Tailor.  No
 JH> significant spoiler warnings apply here.

What network or syndication is this show seen on?  I haven't found it upon my
review of the TV guide and from your description, would like to see it.

Don

--- Maximus 3.01
 * Origin: No Regrets, Clinton, MS (601)924-8247 9P-5A (1:3632/65)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 36 of 317
 From : Henry Triplett                      1:106/564       .cê 11 .âã 96 11:36
 To   : PATRICK DUDA
 Subj : Japanese SF
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

-=> Quoting Patrick Duda to Henry Triplett <=-

 PD> Well, i'm not exactly a fanatic watcher of it, but it's simply
 PD> factually the best and most intelligent cartoon on NA TV. Where else

Over time I've become a steady viewer.  I guess I've fallen in with bad
company.  <g>

 PD> There are several dozen snail mail addresses on the site, and I will
 PD> post a few. Depite this being off topic, it's important that we keep

Well, I think anime is on topic for this echo.  At least if I remember the
rules correctly.

 PD> not only well done anime on our Tv's, but also good series such as
 PD> this. (let's not bring up starblazers! :)

One of my biggest regrets is that I didn't have a vcr when Starblazers
aired back in the early eighties.  Of course if I did, I would have been
wealthy enough to buy it on laserdisk. :)

Thanks a lot for the snail addresses and info.  Hopefully we can make a
difference.  If not, at least we have the dubbed versions available from
the fansubbers.  (I hope!)

Henry

... "Hello, would you like to buy some Sailor Scout cookies?"

___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20 [NR]
--- GEcho 1.00
 * Origin: Eat Flaming Death    Houston Texas    713-447-1927 (1:106/564)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 37 of 317
 From : Frank Glover                        1:2613/477      .cê 11 .âã 96 15:20
 To   : Todd Sullivan
 Subj : Re: By Force Of Arms
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

TS>   DJ> computers though, but then they also went around bopping each
TS>  other
TS>   DJ> with swords, so ...
TS>
TS>  The reason for the use of blades was because it would go through the
TS>  personal force fields without causing any of the literally explosive
TS>  reactions caused by laser/blaster guns.  IIRC, the interactions of
TS>  the two energies caused explosions in the kiloton range.

   Interesting. Not unlike a prediction I once made that personal conflicts on
space ships, space stations, etc. would tend to return to bladed weapons, as the
use of firearms in a thin-walled pressurized enclosure would make life unplesant
for the attacker as well....

  Frank


--- QuickBBS 2.81 GoldBase (Zeta-2.0)
 * Origin: The Matrix Data Bank BBS, Rochester, Ny (1:2613/477)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 38 of 317
 From : Roger Fingas                        1:163/215       .cê 11 .âã 96 22:58
 To   : Wayne Crow
 Subj : Space: Above and Beyond - reasons for cancellation
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
I couldn't believe it myself, really.  But the thing is is that Fox is placing a
new show, Millenium, on at Fridays at 9.  And, in what has to be one of the
stupidest programming decisions ever made, they're moving the X-Files to Sunday
after the Simpsons (what were they thinking?).
Millenium is apparently aimed at the same audience as the X-Files, so that would
explain the bumping off of Space, seeing as Fox probably has it in mind that
anything X-Files-ish sells by now.

--- Maximus 3.01
 * Origin: BitByters BBS, Rockland ON, Can. (613)446-7773 v34, (1:163/215)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 39 of 317
 From : James Walton                        1:129/260       .cê 11 .âã 96 10:01
 To   : Michael Harper
 Subj : Sound supressors
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 MH>  George Roy Hill, Julia Phillips and Tony Bill; a silenced revolver,
 MH>  something that is impossible by 1930's standards. It's not possible,
 MH>  even with the current designs in wheelguns. The gas escaping from the
 MH>  cylinder is enough to defeat the purpose of the silencer. Little
 MH>  idiocies like that are what annoys me worst about Hollywood...

Sound supressors (NOT silencers: that is a misnomer) have been around since
the 1890's.  And is is VERY easy to make a single use sound supressor.  They
are useful for close range work only since they take a lot of velocity away
from the bullet.





--- Via Silver Xpress V4.00 SW12427
 * Origin: ConFluence '97:  Virtual Bridges (1:129/260)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 40 of 317
 From : James Walton                        1:129/260       .cê 11 .âã 96 20:24
 To   : Bob Klahn
 Subj : SF CLUB QUESTIONS
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Re Club Dues:

 BK>  That isn't likely to work for an SF club, unless there was
 BK> something really  spectacular about it. The high dues would
 BK> kill the club even with time  payments. Our local club had
 BK> dues of $5.00/yr. That plus provide a years  worth of stamps
 BK> for the newsletter.

My club, PARSEC in Pittsburgh PA, has dues of $10.00 per year.  We have some
people who pay $1.00 every month.
We have others, like our Starving Artists, who donate a piece of their work once
a year and we auction off the art.

---
 * Origin: PARSEC: Pittsburgh's Science Fiction Club.,  (1:129/260)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 41 of 317
 From : Patrick Duda                        1:218/801       .cê 11 .âã 96 15:29
 To   : Leman Russ
 Subj : Re: Japanese SF
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12  91-0018

-> Well, first off Shirow writes Manga, notcomix. We're kind of
-> sensitive about that distinction here. ;)

 Soory. I wouldn't want people calling macross a 'cartoon', either! :)

--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12
 * Origin: Star Tech Diamond Bar, CA 909-396-4227 714-257-1175  (1:218/801.0)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 42 of 317
 From : Patrick Duda                        1:218/801       .cê 11 .âã 96 15:31
 To   : Leman Russ
 Subj : Re: Japanese SF
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12  91-0018

-> Oh, you can find Ghost in the shell at Blockbuster video.

 I got it at Blockbuster music, for $19.99. I saw it in the 'Right Stuf'
catalog (got the ascii version) for $17.99 or something. I'd pay the $2
extra to have it NOW though. They have a web site, use alta vista or
somethig to look up "right stuf international".

--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12
 * Origin: Star Tech Diamond Bar, CA 909-396-4227 714-257-1175  (1:218/801.0)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 43 of 317
 From : Patrick Duda                        1:218/801       .cê 11 .âã 96 15:41
 To   : Jeff Hancock
 Subj : Japanese SF
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12  91-0018

-> Subbed?  Wrong terminology there, the TV guys _dub_ it into english,
-> not subtitle it.  (if only... but you know why not. ;)

 Slip of the keyboard. I actually prefer the japanese voices (if only
that they sound a bit _too_ young), now that i've heard them.
 I'n not gonna start a sub vs. dub though. :)

-> However, by many accounts, the rumors are now fact:  it IS cancelled.
-> Period.  Regardless, and very possibly in part BECAUSE of, SOS.  It

 Hmm. Ouch. They seem to be very aware of who they 'target' now, though.
It's news to me, though.

-> And, of course when you get right down to it, the plain fact is, it
-> didn't sell toys and advertisers well enough.  Of course,
-> considering it

 Where I am they ran stories about SM being the new power rangers and
how toys were selling out. I also see all sorts of SM stuff here now,
too. Seems popular enough!

-> didn't sell toys and advertisers well enough.  Of course,
-> considering it hit a somewhat limited syndicated market and usually
-> aired (according to

 A look-up for it at the TVguide web site (for the whole west coast)
only popped up one entry, the station I watch it on, KCOP. Is that real?
No wonder, if only one station has it. I still ask, is there _any_ way
to get japanese TV here? OR some cheeper way to get lotsa episodes of
stuff (no fansubbing), like on LD.

-> have heard many, many additional reports of the changes DIC made that
-> effectively dumbed-down and kiddy-fied a show which was not all that

Agreed. It's still hands-down the most intelligent 'cartoon' on american
TV.

-> been some hints that A.D. Vision may be interested in picking it up
-> commercially, although I find it a little hard to believe they would
-> bring out the entire series which is nearly up to 200 episodes by
-> now.

 I want the sailor moon R movie. They can keep the 'paris' one.

--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12
 * Origin: Star Tech Diamond Bar, CA 909-396-4227 714-257-1175  (1:218/801.0)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 44 of 317
 From : Patrick Duda                        1:218/801       .cê 11 .âã 96 15:49
 To   : Jeff Hancock
 Subj : Macross 7
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12  91-0018

-> More than is typical?  Lots of things attract insane amounts of web
-> attention.  It's practically a haven for obsessive fanboys eager to

 Well, the stuff they have looks more like commerical rip-offs than the
typical homemade stuff.

-> PD>The new Shoduka stuff a lot of the anime pages are routed through
-> now
-> I don't know what this refers to, though.  Server software?

 What it is is some sort of intermidate server thing that lets english
web browsers 'see' japanese text. So it does something like send the
japanese doublebyte characters over as graphics instead of acii
jibberish, or something. It makes connects slower though, IMO.

-> You mean "Clash of the Bionoids".  You can say that again.  I think
-> they cut out about 20-25 minutes of the movie, and what's left makes
-> even

 <shudder> that's what it was called. At the end of the movie where
hikaru (forget the sp.) goes to the zentradi ship roy just sorta
'disappears'. The death scene was he best part too! (maybe cept the
beggining). I showed the dubbed one to a friend and he was like at the
end "what was that actually _about_ ?". Then I showed him the orignal
japanese (I haven't seen a subbed one) and he was like "Oooohhh! That's
what it was about" :)
  I still didn't like either.

-> Hard to say.  Probably so.  There was a Robotech movie, though, if
-> you somehow got it confused with that - which was a rewritten
-> version using

  I only remember hearing about it being shown at cons, and there was a
graphic novel about it.

-> The only Macross movie I know of is DYRL, though.  I think there's a
-> Macross II movie, or maybe it's Macross Plus, or perhaps both, but
-> only

  The macross2 movie is just all of the M2 episodes put together. I
don't think it's cut. (if so only about 10 min, it's 120 minutes)

--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12
 * Origin: Star Tech Diamond Bar, CA 909-396-4227 714-257-1175  (1:218/801.0)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 45 of 317
 From : Patrick Duda                        1:218/801       .cê 11 .âã 96 15:51
 To   : Leman Russ
 Subj : Re: Gundam 0083...
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12  91-0018

-> If you like macross mecha, do you like the Armored trooper votoms?
-> Those things were very cool and technically plausible.

 not familiar with the name. Please descibe? My favorite is the
FZ-109(a) 'stealth bomber' mecha from Macross7. From the older series I
like the destroid ones and the uh, rifleman ones (with the gun arms).

--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12
 * Origin: Star Tech Diamond Bar, CA 909-396-4227 714-257-1175  (1:218/801.0)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 46 of 317
 From : Patrick Duda                        1:218/801       .cê 11 .âã 96 15:55
 To   : Jeff Hancock
 Subj : Japanese SF
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12  91-0018

-> <shudder>  If you only KNEW....

About Sailor Moon, I _know_. But jeez, imagine seeing 'ducktales'
afterward. That;s BAD. They don't even observe the slightest semblance
of real world physics.

--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12
 * Origin: Star Tech Diamond Bar, CA 909-396-4227 714-257-1175  (1:218/801.0)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 47 of 317
 From : Patrick Duda                        1:218/801       .cê 11 .âã 96 16:00
 To   : Jeff Hancock
 Subj : Japanese SF
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12  91-0018

-> I've heard cheers and jeers for his work (are you sure that's the
-> right spelling?), I think the jeers mostly involve not liking the
-> "atmosphere" and some claims of stupid technogarble excuses.
-> Haven't seen any

 Masamune Shirow. I type too fast. I LOVE his manga, I think he's a god
when it comes to that. I just have problems with cramming several books
into a little over an hour of animation. You just don't get a lot of the
subtle stuff. I've shown it to people who don't even know what the title
is supposed to mean (After seeing it). It can't decide wether to stop
and get philisophical or not about humanity or to go all out action. The
manga does a good job balancing it, making more like real life
(stop/go).

-> This is along the same lines as a few of the things I've heard about
-> Akira, pity that GITS fell the same way.

 Akria was worse, but it had more to say.

--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12
 * Origin: Star Tech Diamond Bar, CA 909-396-4227 714-257-1175  (1:218/801.0)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 48 of 317
 From : Patrick Duda                        1:218/801       .cê 11 .âã 96 16:04
 To   : Jeff Hancock
 Subj : Realistic space scen
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12  91-0018

-> PD>for robotech). Are laserdics still $300 a piece for the nicer
-> series? PD>(like R-tech)  Even more than the tapes, though, I like
-> to get CD's
-> $300?  Not that *I* know of... the most I've ever heard of is in the
-> $80 range for subtitled (frequently dubbed on SAP) U.S. re-released
-> anime

  I meant the exhorbinant amounts asked for the whole series. Often more
than what it would cost to get the whole thing on tape. After checking a
recent catalog, the prices are more than fair. About $35 for most, with
some even having more content than their tape counterparts. Not bad,
with LD players coming down below $200.

--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12
 * Origin: Star Tech Diamond Bar, CA 909-396-4227 714-257-1175  (1:218/801.0)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 49 of 317
 From : Nicolai Shapero                     1:102/524       .cê 11 .âã 96 19:06
 To   : Leman Russ
 Subj : Re: Basilisk Dreams Books
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Aug 09 04:38>, Leman Russ (1:2250/7) wrote to Owen E. Oulton:

 LR>Why should he get his "wrist slapped"? If the bookstore caters to
 LR>SF and fantasy then it's a valid point here.

Advertisement of commercial enterprises is forbidden in this conference.

-- Nicolai Shapero, Moderator of the SFFAN echo

--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 50 of 317
 From : Nicolai Shapero                     1:102/524       .cê 11 .âã 96 19:09
 To   : Bob Klahn
 Subj : REALISTIC SPACE SCENE
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Aug 07 21:26>, Bob Klahn (1:234/2) wrote to Nicolai Shapero:

 NS> "Fuzzy logic" is a gross misnomer.  Simple proportional control (and
 NS> THAT'S been around for a LONG time...).  Even fuzzy logic (as a
 NS> mathematical discipline) dates back quite a few years.

 BK> In my symbolic logic class the prof told us that 3 state (fuzzy)
 BK>logic had
 BK> been demonstrated to be superior to two state (binary) logic,
 BK>but the
 BK> technology to use it was inadequate. That was 15 years ago or
 BK>so.

3 state logic "superior" to binary logic. Ridiculous.  As to "technology to use
it was indadequate", again, ridiculous.  Yours truly IMPLEMENTED what would now
be called a fuzzy logic system for motion control over sixteen years ago.  Using
Z80As.

My graduate degree was in mathematics, and I've been programming computers since
1965.  I believe that I can tell horse-hockey when I smell it, thank you...

-- Nicolai Shapero, the Mad Russian Sysop of StormGate Aerie

--- msged 2.06
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Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 51 of 317
 From : Jeff Hancock                        1:3600/7        .óá 10 .âã 96 19:17
 To   : David Johnston
 Subj : Gundam 0083...
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

DJ>As I recall, "Minovsky particles" are actually the key to the
DJ>antigravity propulsion system.  It's possible that releasing the
DJ>particles actually messed up the trajectories of whatever they were
DJ>being bombarded with, but using them meant that they could no longer
DJ>detect the Zion propulsion systems.

That is interesting indeed.  So, the possibility existed that everything
around the ship got a little lighter? ;-)

Hmmm, I had assumed the incoming munitions were guided, not merely
ballistic.  Of course, a strong enough antigravity field would throw
them off course anyway.

It's odd that releasing these particles fouls up detectors, though.
Okay, so how does the antigravity drive work?  Perhaps Minoskvy
particles are integral to the operation of the Gundam suits themselves
(certainly would help speed them up if they used antigravity to assist
in overcoming inertia), so they give them off normally while operating,
and saturating the area with those particles makes it hard to detect a
specific source.

On the OTHER hand, the Albion was unable to track the Zions on another
continent.  Either those particles were hanging around the ship itself
and interfering, or the Zions also released a smoke-screen of Minoskvy
particles.

DJ>-> PD>     Universal time.
DJ>-> Universal in what sense?  What's the base of reference?
DJ>I can't remember.  Either the formation of the Earth Federation, or
DJ>something to do with the history of space flight.

Either of those would make sense, although I kind of lean toward the
latter from a personal POV.

DJ>-> that it seemed kind of odd that the battle suits were carrying
DJ>->guns, because it seemed like they couldn't hit the broadside of a
DJ>That could have something to do with the New Types.  The chief
DJ>advantage of being a New Type is that you lead a charmed life in
DJ>combat.

<snicker>  Okay, so what precisely is a "New Type"?  Anyway, in the
first episode this happened between two, "ordinary" looking, suits.
Average soldiers.  In the third episode, they were different,
fancier-looking suits, those might have been New Types.

Of course, one of the pilots was drunk and the other was a relative
novice, so that could be it as well.

Got the next four episodes in today.  I'll have to try to watch at least
one of them tonight.  I wanna see where this is going.  ;-)
-=-
 * Crazy-J * Echomailing by moonlight, sleeping all through daylight..

--- SLMAIL v3.5C  (#1540)
 * Origin: Robotech  -=-Fansubbed anime available upon request-=- (1:3600/7)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 52 of 317
 From : Jeff Hancock                        1:3600/7        .óá 10 .âã 96 21:40
 To   : Owen E. Oulton
 Subj : Japanese SF
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

OEO> HT> I was dubious when I first heard of Sailor Moon, but it seems
OEO> HT>to be something that grows on you with time.
OEO>Sorta like fungus or gangrene?  <G,D,R>

Cancer, actually.



(what, you mean I have to explain that?  Aw hell....)

The main character is a Cancer, astrologically speaking.  In addition to
that, someone in another echo informed me recently that Cancers are
known as "Moon Children", so evidently it was part of a in-joke.

Although, given the number of people willing to support a cruel
perversion of an originally not-bad show which practically equates to
healthy tissue becoming a tumor, a metaphor with cancer might not be too
wholly inaccurate.
-=-
 * Crazy-J * Alright who's been running a Cream Lemon in the holodeck?

--- SLMAIL v3.5C  (#1540)
 * Origin: Robotech  -=-Fansubbed anime available upon request-=- (1:3600/7)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 53 of 317
 From : Jeff Hancock                        1:3600/7        .cê 11 .âã 96 13:48
 To   : Michael Harper
 Subj : Japanese SF
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

MH> I've got your surfacemail address somewhere; I'd like copies. I
MH>think my viewers would get a kick out of it. Run 'em off for me and

Um, okay, maybe one *tiny* objection...  What say I just send you my
list and that way you can pick up anything else that might pique your
interest while you're at it?

MH>on the DP movies easily enough, but I want to see the originals.

Well, Streamline claims they don't mind fansubs, but they're still rare
(probably just in case Streamline changes their policy).  I know someone
who plans to sub Project Eden sometime in the indefinite future, aside
from that, no leads yet.

MH> No, probably not; but as I only know about three words of Kanji, all

I think "kanji" means the written, symbol, form, not spoken.

MH>seeing them subbed would help me learn the language a bit better. If

Perhaps.  ;)  I can recognize a few words occasionally, but that's
mostly because of people willing to explain the words and their
meanings.  The language can be so open to interpretation that just
reading the subtitles and listening to the words won't necessarily help
you learn what words mean what, unless it's very unambiguous.  For
example, I've never heard "Arigatou" mean anything other than "thanks"
or "thank you".

On the other hand, according to a text I have, "Sumimasen" can used to
mean "excuse me, but, (will you tell me the way to the station?)" "I am
sorry, but (I cannot go out with you today as I have another plan),"
"pardon me (to cause you trouble)," or even "thank you very much"
depending on how you say it.... then the text goes on to use "Suminasen"
in a context and translates it as "May I come in?"  (I guess this comes
under the heading of "excuse me/pardon me, is anyone there?")

MH> If a big studio like, say, Paramount got hold of it, it'd be

At least it would still have the Trek references.  ;-)

Oh, caught another cross-reference while watching the rerun of DS9 the
other night; Rom said he got a cure for his ear problem from some
relative named "Moogi", sounding almost just like "Mughi", Kei and
Yuri's cat-creature.

MH>And God help us if Disney got their paws on the Dirty Pair...

I think they'll be a little busy on their Yamato/Starblazers adaptation
for a while...
-=-
 * Crazy-J * Girls in tiny sailor suits mooning everybody?!?!

--- SLMAIL v3.5C  (#1540)
 * Origin: Robotech  -=-Fansubbed anime available upon request-=- (1:3600/7)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 54 of 317
 From : Leman Russ                          1:2250/7        .óá 03 .âã 96 20:09
 To   : Gary Warren
 Subj : Re: The sci-fi channel?
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
BSG= BattleStar Galactica.

>:[

--- DLG Pro v1.0/DLGMail
 * Origin: Sage's Tower - Amiga - (618) 259-1844 (1:2250/7)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 55 of 317
 From : Leman Russ                          1:2250/7        .óá 03 .âã 96 20:11
 To   : Marco Catalano
 Subj : Re: Realistic space scenes
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 MC> Hello Leman!


 MC> Friday July 19 1996, Leman Russ writes to All:

 LR> Point 3. The most realistic, IMNSHSHO, space special effects was Space:
 LR> The eagles looked realistic and were filmed in a belieavble manner,
 LR> looking more like I'd expect real spacecraft and lunar enviernment to
 LR> loook likethan anythihing I've seen before or since.

 MC> You're right, Russ.

 MC> But to be honest, I can't really remember much about Space:1999.
 MC> I was very young when the show aired.
 MC> I can remember an episode in wich the Eagles were docked with some
 MC> very old spacestation, and all of the sudden what aeared to be
 MC> wires was comming to life! They had to make a run for the airlocks,
 MC> with all those wriggling wire-like things after them.


 Well, the ep sounds like one of the very first ones, maybe evenhe first one
after the premire. Asdies from that I can't recall the title.

>:[

--- DLG Pro v1.0/DLGMail
 * Origin: Sage's Tower - Amiga - (618) 259-1844 (1:2250/7)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 56 of 317
 From : Leman Russ                          1:2250/7        .óá 03 .âã 96 20:40
 To   : Jeff Hancock
 Subj : Re: Japanese SF
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 TRhe only japanese fhan parody I have is the live action "Dynaman" which is
hilarious!

 "Me? I'm a noble gaurdian of the law! Gya ha ha ha!" Anna Puma.

--- DLG Pro v1.0/DLGMail
 * Origin: Sage's Tower - Amiga - (618) 259-1844 (1:2250/7)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 57 of 317
 From : Leman Russ                          1:2250/7        .óá 03 .âã 96 20:41
 To   : Jeff Hancock
 Subj : Re: Japanese SF
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 Was Jachie chan involved in Project a-ko? I've avoided his movies like the
plague.

>:[

--- DLG Pro v1.0/DLGMail
 * Origin: Sage's Tower - Amiga - (618) 259-1844 (1:2250/7)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 58 of 317
 From : Leman Russ                          1:2250/7        .óá 03 .âã 96 20:44
 To   : Jeff Hancock
 Subj : Re: Gundam 0083
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 If you like Gundam, try the roleplaying game "Mekton". I know the earlier
editions were poor, but the latest, Mekton Zeta, is awesome and incredible
improved over the rest.

>:[

--- DLG Pro v1.0/DLGMail
 * Origin: Sage's Tower - Amiga - (618) 259-1844 (1:2250/7)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 59 of 317
 From : Leman Russ                          1:2250/7        .óá 03 .âã 96 20:52
 To   : All
 Subj : back
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
My sysop was inthe hospitsal for a few days so my local board was down, but I'm
back now.

"Here come the haloheads. Guard your rights carefully."

--- DLG Pro v1.0/DLGMail
 * Origin: Sage's Tower - Amiga - (618) 259-1844 (1:2250/7)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 60 of 317
 From : Leman Russ                          1:2250/7        .óá 03 .âã 96 23:41
 To   : Nicolai Shapero
 Subj : Re: The sci-fi channel?
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 Well, in Illinois we can't get any old SF shows anymore, and I've heard it was
due to the SG channel hogging them all.

:Support right to life, or we'll kill you." The new right.

--- DLG Pro v1.0/DLGMail
 * Origin: Sage's Tower - Amiga - (618) 259-1844 (1:2250/7)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 61 of 317
 From : Leman Russ                          1:2250/7        .óá 03 .âã 96 23:44
 To   : Jeff Hancock
 Subj : Re: Japanese SF
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 A-ko was so loaded with in jokes I doubt any fhan will ever get them all. vI
just caught a kind of joke in part 4, which I just rewatched,

 Look at the scene where the sensai (teacher) is sitting in her apartment
looking at the moon. Notice the nightshirt she's wearing? It has "HKMP5K"
written across the top.

 An HKMP5K is a german submachine gun, commonly used by police SWAT teams around
the westerm world, including America.

>:[

--- DLG Pro v1.0/DLGMail
 * Origin: Sage's Tower - Amiga - (618) 259-1844 (1:2250/7)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 62 of 317
 From : David Johnston                      1:342/14        .îí 12 .âã 96 00:10
 To   : Todd Sullivan
 Subj : By Force Of Arms
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
-> DJ> Hard to say.  Dune wasn't exactly hard sf, so nobody had cause to
-> whip DJ> out a calculator.  They appeared to have a blanket
-> prohibition on DJ> computers though, but then they also went around
-> bopping each other DJ> with swords, so ...
-> The reason for the use of blades was because it would go through the
-> personal force fields without causing any of the literally explosive
-> reactions caused by laser/blaster guns.  IIRC, the interactions of
-> the two energies caused explosions in the kiloton range.

Yes but the reason for that plot device was so they could go around
bopping each other with swords.

--- PCBoard (R) v15.21/100
 * Origin: Freddy's Place - Edm. AB - 33.6K (403) 413-3460 (1:342/14)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 63 of 317
 From : Tracy Klein                         1:500/2         .cê 11 .âã 96 00:23
 To   : Todd Sullivan
 Subj : Environmental Issues
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: HyperMail! v1.20 95-0079
Hey man, this area is not for environment garbage and you can kiss my
butt on that one.

--- HyperMail! v1.20
 * Origin: Nite Lites BBS, Minot ND (1:500/2)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 64 of 317
 From : Boris CDuke                         2:463/2.22      .òp 13 .âã 96 10:47
 To   : Darre LuAllen
 Subj : Sf Club Questions
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Hi Darre!

 DL>> To start with, how often does the club meet?

It depends on what is the field the club is to be fond of.

 BK>> Regularity is more important than frequency, but once a month is
 BK>> normal, once a week is possible. Any less and the membership will
 BK>> start to drift away.

My club used to meet twice a week.

 DL>> What activities does the club participate in?

 BK>> Go to SF movies, show videos, *discuss the subject*, and go out to
 BK>> dinner.

Also - writing, fanzine and general media activity.

 DL>  Sounds like just a larger version of my circle of friends, which I
 DL>  suppose it is intended to be.  Regular schedule or majority rules?

 BK>> Don't underestimate the importance of social activities.

That's it.

 DL>  The whole reason for trying to start this puppy.

 DL>> Is the club sponsored in any way?  What are dues and where do they go?

Yes, sometime it's important to negotiate discounts with probable sponsors.
It'll make a club more stable.

Bestest, Boris
Kiev, Ukraine. Zoryany Shlyah SF CLub.

 * Origin: Imagineering (2:463/2.22)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 65 of 317
 From : Owen E. Oulton                      1:243/45        .îí 12 .âã 96 15:37
 To   : James Walton
 Subj : Sound supressors
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 MH>  George Roy Hill, Julia Phillips and Tony Bill; a silenced revolver,
 MH>  something that is impossible by 1930's standards. It's not possible,
 MH>  even with the current designs in wheelguns. The gas escaping from the
 MH>  cylinder is enough to defeat the purpose of the silencer. Little
 MH>  idiocies like that are what annoys me worst about Hollywood...

 JW> Sound supressors (NOT silencers: that is a misnomer) have been around
 JW> since the 1890's.  And is is VERY easy to make a single use sound
 JW> supressor.  They are useful for close range work only since they take a
 JW> lot of velocity away from the bullet.

And they *DO NOT* work with revolvers.  A suppressor/silencer works by trapping
the expended propellant gasses and releasing them slowly so as to avoid the
noise of their explosive expansion.  Revolvers have a gap between the face of
the of the cylinder and the base of the barrell, through which enough gas
escapes to render a suppressor/silencer utterly useless.  Suppressors are only
useful on weapons with a sealed breach.

CFN, O

--- Maximus 2.01wb
 * Origin: Pandora's Box, Ottawa, Ont. 613-829-1209 (1:243/45)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 66 of 317
 From : Todd Sullivan                       1:202/720.3     .óá 10 .âã 96 20:45
 To   : Leman Russ
 Subj : Klingons
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Reports from the Interior indicate that Leman Russ leaked the following to me,
re: Klingons

 LR>  When people can;t state their honest opinions, then there's no point
 LR> in logging in. Ifind Klingons despicable and can;t see why anyone would
 LR> emulatesuch a worthless race.

And what--exactly--do you find despicable about them?

As for emulating them, we use the positive aspects as a basis, not the
blood-lust (although there are ways in a non-dangerous fashion) nor the constant
politicking.  It's the honor concept and the continuous struggle, not the
viciousness.

Todd Sullivan
Email: Todd.Sullivan@202-720.mx1.fidonet.org

... "Sometimes, if you wait, he'll top himself." --Hobbes

-*- ASTG 1.9

--- Spot 1.3a Unregistered
 * Origin: Todd's Spot in the Continuum (1:202/720.3)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 67 of 317
 From : Pete Granzeau                       1:271/236       .cê 11 .âã 96 12:59
 To   : All
 Subj : BY FORCE OF ARMS
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE 1.11+
I have seen stupid arguments in my day, buth this one takes the cake.  It
has reached the point where they might as well be arguing who has the
shortest male member--in which case, I might expect one or other of them to
catch on, and start shouting "I give up!  You win!!"

On 08-06-96  22:50,  Bob Klahn wrote to David Johnston about BY FORCE OF
ARMS:

BK> ...
 DJ> controlled area in North America).  Britain did not declare war on
 DJ> the U.S. and certainly didn't want to deliberately provoke it into
 DJ> opening up a new front of the Napoleonic wars.  They were merely
 DJ> operating under the false assumption that the United States wouldn
 DJ> dare go to war with a nation so powerful as they were.

BK> If you are trying to say that war was started through stupidity I can'
BK> argue that point.

 DJ> And the King wasn't in charge during this time period, the ministe
 DJ> were.  The American Revolution was the last gasp of dictatorial po
 DJ> the British Empire.  By the time of the War of 1812, Britain would

BK> Your next comment seems to contradict this.

 DJ> accurately be described as an oligarchy with some democratic trapp

BK>  Which is a form of dictatorship.

 DJ> loose on them as long as it was afraid of Napoleon.  If democracy
 DJ> prevented resorts to warfare inherently, then insofar as the Ameri
 DJ> had pretensions to democracy, they should not have resorted to war

BK> Democracy does not prevent resorts to warfare, just makes it less like

 DJ> to get what they wanted.  The only reason why we have the present
 DJ> relative democratic amity is because the Cold War successfully def
 DJ> all democracies as being on the same "side".

BK> Part of the reason. Another part is that it is hard to persuade the US
BK> citizenry that it is right to go to war with another democracy.

 DJ> However it is certainly easier to go to war in a dictatorship, whe
 DJ> one man's opinion need be considered.  But if resources should be
 DJ> particularly scarce, I can easily see democracies going to war wit
 DJ> other to secure something they each consider essential to their
 DJ> welfare...such as petroleum.

BK> That I could see also.

BK>BOB KLAHN   bob.klahn@toltbbs.com

BK>... Forgive us for shooting those who trespass against us.
BK> * Silver Xpress V4.3P RB10275

BK>--- FLAME v1.1
BK> * Origin: Telnet toltbbs.com or call 313-854-6001, Boardwatch #55 (1:2


Regards, PHG

... O Lord, protect me from those to whom You speak directly.
 * Wave Rider 1.33 # 92 *

--- GEcho 1.11+
 * Origin: THE TIME MACHINE (804)599-6401 (1:271/236.0)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 68 of 317
 From : Phill Ash                           1:275/160       .îí 12 .âã 96 05:11
 To   : Todd Sullivan
 Subj : BY FORCE OF ARMS
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE 1.11+

 TS> Seems to me that it was a Luddite reaction that got cannonized, via
 TS> the Orange Catholic Bible.  I'd guess it was political, but it wasn't
 TS> exactly explained.

        By virtue of the name, "The Butlerian Jihad", I'd assume a Holy
        War =)


From the Office of the DeathMaster General...
... 'Cause there's love in your lies - You're so thinly disguised
---
 * Ôystertags v1.2 *
--- Smile :)
 * Origin: * The Beast's Lair * (804)498-3070 * Va Beach VA * (1:275/160)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 69 of 317
 From : Stephen Simmons                     1:275/160       .îí 12 .âã 96 17:36
 To   : Bob Klahn
 Subj : WASTE DUMPING ...
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE 1.11+
 ÕÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍµBob Klahn wrote:

BK>> There was a suggestion of disposing of radioactive waste by dumping
BK>> it in the sun. This raised objections of the possibility of triggering
BK>> some sort of reaction. As if all the nuclear waste on earth would make
BK>> a bubble on the sun.
BK>> Of course, in _Bill the Galactic Hero_ they did manage to overload a
BK>> star, but that was with ordinary garbage.

SS>     As Heinlein pointed out in _Expanded_Universe_, this is a
SS>     bad idea.  Yes, there are drawbacks to having the stuff
SS>     around, but it would be a lot worse to irretrievably destroy
SS>     it all and then find out that we could actually find a
SS>     significant beneficial use for it.

BK>Have had a couple discussions of this, your statement describes my
BK>view pretty well also.

    As someone pointed out to us recently, this discussion really
    doesn't fit the topic of this echo.  I am interested in
    continuing discussions of this nature about this and other
    topics, however.  Is there a FidoNet echo more suited to it?
    I haven't found one, but I am pretty new here.


Blackjack
... Don't hit me, Mr. Moderator... I'll go back on topic... I swear!
___ Blue Wave/DOS v2.30 [NR]
--- Smile :)
 * Origin: * The Beast's Lair * (804)498-3070 * Va Beach VA * (1:275/160)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 70 of 317
 From : Jeff Hancock                        1:3600/7        .cê 11 .âã 96 21:01
 To   : Leman Russ
 Subj : Gundam 0083...
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

LR> Just to help you out, Animga spelled it "Minoffsky particles", and

That's a help? ;)

Watched Gundam 0083 episode 5 earlier, turns out this batch was done by
a different fansubber... slightly inferior, I think.  And they spelled
the "spacenoid" force involved here (which is apparently one of several)
as "Jion".  <sigh>  I can't decide which it sounds more like, but "Zion"
looks and *feels* better.

They haven't yet had a reason to give their version of the
Min-whatever-sky particles yet.  Maybe next ep.  ;)

LR>the little blighters could block Em systems like radar and radio, and

Yes, but... WHY?  Is there any sort of a psuedo-scientific reason for
that?

LR>even serve as a propulsion system, according to articles I read. >:[

You might have seen, someone else said it was related to the antigravity
drive.

Guess it doesn't matter, but it sure makes me curious.

-=-
 * Crazy-J * Bungee Jumping: The thrill of suicide w/o the commitment.

--- SLMAIL v3.5C  (#1540)
 * Origin: Robotech  -=-Fansubbed anime available upon request-=- (1:3600/7)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 71 of 317
 From : Jeff Hancock                        1:3600/7        .cê 11 .âã 96 21:03
 To   : Leman Russ
 Subj : Japanese SF
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

LR>wasn't taking your statement to extremes, I was trying to be slightly
LR>humorous. >;[

Sorry then, but it didn't seem like you were being funny.

-=-
 * Crazy-J * "Ya da!  Ami-chan et-chi-i!!" - Aino Minako

--- SLMAIL v3.5C  (#1540)
 * Origin: Robotech  -=-Fansubbed anime available upon request-=- (1:3600/7)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 72 of 317
 From : Dave MacLean                        1:259/536       .îí 12 .âã 96 08:28
 To   : All
 Subj : neat & fun info
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
hi all! here is some fun & neat info for you.

1 == i am trying to write a trivia book on st-tng & i need help.

2 == i am looking for message buddies who some of my same interests & likes that
i can message back & forth with.

3 == i am part of a sci fi club that meets monthly in to & we are always looking
for new members.

if u want more info or have any questions on any or all items above feel free to
message me back.  hope to hear from some of you.



--- Maximus 2.01wb
 * Origin: USS Proxima = Toronto, Canada (416)265-3867 (1:259/536)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 73 of 317
 From : Darre LuAllen                       1:3637/1        .îí 12 .âã 96 07:41
 To   : Jeff Hancock
 Subj : Japanese SF
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Appologies for not quoting (unless this does so automatically.  Then I'll
appologize for over quoting.).  My local BBS took a lightning strike, so I can't
download packets.  We were talking about Japanese (the language) and fan subs.
As for the latter, I'll pass the list along to the couple of fans here.  Some of
them have more money than sense, if you know the type.  I'll place an order soon
as well.

As for the Japanese language, Tenn Tech offers a few courses in it, so I might
try them.  I'm a comm major, so I have to take some language.  So far, it's been
a toss up between Japanese, Russian and French (since I took three years in high
school some ten years ago).

--- Maximus/2 3.01
 * Origin: Cumberland BBS -TN- V34 (1:3637/1)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 74 of 317
 From : David Johnston                      1:342/14        .òp 13 .âã 96 00:26
 To   : Roger Fingas
 Subj : Space: Above and Beyond - reasons for cancellation
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
-> I couldn't believe it myself, really.  But the thing is is that Fox
-> is placing new show, Millenium, on at Fridays at 9.  And, in what has
-> to be one of the stupidest programming decisions ever made, they're
-> moving the X-Files to Sunday after the Simpsons (what were they
-> thinking?).

They are thinking that X-Files has a solid audience akin to that of Star
Trek and thus can survive such a move.  At worst, the audience will
switch over to Millenium, a show with the same paranoid appeal, and
(presumably) fresher characters and format.

Space was doomed though.  Just too depressing for the mainstream appeal
required to float that budget.

--- PCBoard (R) v15.21/100
 * Origin: Freddy's Place - Edm. AB - 33.6K (403) 413-3460 (1:342/14)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 75 of 317
 From : David Johnston                      1:342/14        .òp 13 .âã 96 00:29
 To   : James Walton
 Subj : Sound Supressors
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
-> Sound supressors (NOT silencers: that is a misnomer) have been around
-> since the 1890's.  And is is VERY easy to make a single use sound
-> supressor.  They are useful for close range work only since they take
-> a lot of velocity away from the bullet.

However, they still aren't effective enough to be worthwhile on
revolvers.  Rifles, single shot pistols and the like are a different
question.

--- PCBoard (R) v15.21/100
 * Origin: Freddy's Place - Edm. AB - 33.6K (403) 413-3460 (1:342/14)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 76 of 317
 From : Ken Mayes                           1:393/7         .òp 13 .âã 96 09:02
 To   : Nicolai Shapero
 Subj : Re: Star Trek
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
        Galron?


        I think you meant Gowron, didn't you? :)





--- CNet/3
 * Origin: The Bard's Tavern Denton, TX (817)243-5110 USR 28.8   (1:393/7)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 77 of 317
 From : JAMES DIXON                         1:2604/309      .òp 13 .âã 96 19:34
 To   : JEFF HANCOCK
 Subj : Japanese SF
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

JH>Oh, caught another cross-reference while watching the rerun of DS9 the
JH>other night; Rom said he got a cure for his ear problem from some
JH>relative named "Moogi", sounding almost just like "Mughi", Kei and
JH>Yuri's cat-creature.

ANOTHER OKUDA INSIDE JOKE!



---
 þ OLXWin 1.00a þ O 875847885774 - Typical Okudagram Label
 * Origin: Cork Shoot - 201.569.6685 / 201.569.9011 (1:2604/309)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 78 of 317
 From : JAMES DIXON                         1:2604/309      .òp 13 .âã 96 19:34
 To   : PHILL ASH
 Subj : BY FORCE OF ARMS
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

PA>.MSGID: 1:275/160 710537f3
PA>.TID: GE 1.11+
PA> TS> Seems to me that it was a Luddite reaction that got cannonized, via
PA> TS> the Orange Catholic Bible.  I'd guess it was political, but it wasn't
PA> TS> exactly explained.

PA>        By virtue of the name, "The Butlerian Jihad", I'd assume a Holy
PA>        War =)

It's fully explained in The Dune Encyclopedia...

---
 * OLXWin 1.00a * Star Fleet Command - Star Fleet Headquarters - U.F.P.
 * Origin: Cork Shoot - 201.569.6685 / 201.569.9011 (1:2604/309)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 79 of 317
 From : JAMES DIXON                         1:2604/309      .òp 13 .âã 96 19:34
 To   : ALL
 Subj : Anyone know about upcomin
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
When's the next (if there's a next!) book in the Man-Kzin Wars series
coming out?

And for that matter, what of the shared-universe short story
Riverworld compilations? There were only two books thus far in this
series with a third one promised...

And just looking back... I'm still waiting for Robert Anton Wilson's
next volume in the Historical Illuminati Chronicles...

---
 þ OLXWin 1.00a þ STARDATE 7312.31 APPROVED BY GENE RODDENBERRY-ST Blueprints
 * Origin: Cork Shoot - 201.569.6685 / 201.569.9011 (1:2604/309)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 80 of 317
 From : Frank Glover                        1:2613/477      .òp 13 .âã 96 23:19
 To   : Stephen Simmons
 Subj : Re: WASTE DUMPING ...
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

SS>      As someone pointed out to us recently, this discussion really
SS>      doesn't fit the topic of this echo.  I am interested in
SS>      continuing discussions of this nature about this and other
SS>      topics, however.  Is there a FidoNet echo more suited to it?
SS>      I haven't found one, but I am pretty new here.

   This comes up occasionally on the Space Development Echo. Often enough that
the FAQ posting for the echo addresses it.

   Frank


--- QuickBBS 2.81 GoldBase (Zeta-2.0)
 * Origin: The Matrix Data Bank BBS, Rochester, Ny (1:2613/477)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 81 of 317
 From : Todd Sullivan                       1:202/720.3     .îí 12 .âã 96 20:22
 To   : Brion Lienhart
 Subj : B5 RENEWED
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Reports from the Interior indicate that Brion Lienhart leaked the following to
Michael Harper, re: B5 RENEWED

 BL> revolvers with more than six shots. There was even a "semi-automatic
 BL> revolver", the top part of the frame and cylinder recoiled on a track
 BL> and cocked the hammer and advanced the cylinder. It was a british
 BL> weapon.
 BL>

It really existed, and was the Webley Mk IV, IIRC.  Interesting looking weapon.
You can see the "zig-zag" advance slots on the cylinder.

Todd Sullivan
Email: todd.sullivan@202-720.mx1.fidonet.org

... "Trust none; for oaths are straws, men's faiths are wafer-cakes."
     --Shakespeare

-*- ASTG 1.9

--- Spot 1.3a Unregistered
 * Origin: Todd's Spot in the Continuum (1:202/720.3)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 82 of 317
 From : Todd Sullivan                       1:202/720.3     .îí 12 .âã 96 20:23
 To   : Tracy Klein
 Subj : Environmental Issues
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Reports from the Interior indicate that Tracy Klein leaked the following to me,
re: Environmental Issues

 TK> Hey man, this area is not for environment garbage and you can kiss my
 TK> butt on that one.

Only as part of the discussion, and Nicolai has been fairly generous in his
moderating.

You missed the 3-month long flame-fest about nuclear stuff, so you're not
equipped to comment.

Todd Sullivan
Email: todd.sullivan@202-720.mx1.fidonet.org

... "Myra doesn't say, Myra does!" --Don Schanke

-*- ASTG 1.9

--- Spot 1.3a Unregistered
 * Origin: Todd's Spot in the Continuum (1:202/720.3)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 83 of 317
 From : Nicolai Shapero                     1:102/524       .òp 13 .âã 96 04:49
 To   : Tracy Klein
 Subj : Environmental Issues
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Aug 11 00:23>, Tracy Klein (1:500/2) wrote to Todd Sullivan:

 TK>Hey man, this area is not for environment garbage and you can
 TK>kiss my
 TK>butt on that one.

And if you make like another post like the above, this are won't be for YOU
either.  Repeated rude posts like the above will result in your access being
denied.

-- Nicolai Shapero, Moderator of the SFFAN echo

--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 84 of 317
 From : Kay Shapero                         1:102/524       .òp 13 .âã 96 10:52
 To   : Henry Triplett
 Subj : Japanese SF
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Aug 11 11:36>, Henry Triplett (1:106/564) wrote to PATRICK DUDA:

 PD> There are several dozen snail mail addresses on the site, and I will
 PD> post a few. Depite this being off topic, it's important that we keep
 HT>
 HT>Well, I think anime is on topic for this echo.  At least if I
 HT>remember the rules correctly.
 HT>

Of course it is.  Gets a fair amount of discussion lately, too.  :->

--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 85 of 317
 From : Tracy Klein                         1:500/2         .îí 12 .âã 96 09:52
 To   : Nicolai Shapero
 Subj : Re: Star Trek
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: HyperMail! v1.20 95-0079
Nicolai,

    Your message is old news. I knew about this a few weeks ago what was
coming for episodes this season for DS9 and Star Trek Voyager.
    I found it out as I recall in a SCIFI Fan magazine or was it in an
article in TV G  AT&F

--- HyperMail! v1.20
 * Origin: Nite Lites BBS, Minot ND (1:500/2)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 86 of 317
 From : Tracy Klein                         1:500/2         .îí 12 .âã 96 10:02
 To   : Nicolai Shapero
 Subj : Star Trek
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: HyperMail! v1.20 95-0079
Nicolai,

    You message to me on DS9 is old news. I knew about what was coming
three weeks ago. As I recall, I saw and aticle on it in TV Guide or some
SCIFI Fan magazine.
    Better watch Star Trek: Voyager though, it might turn out to be a
good season. In one of the Voyager Episodes for this season, they will
make it back to Earth, but it will be the wrong year. Also Q(as played
by John DeLancie) returns in an episode that should be pretty
interesting. This time, Q returns looking to procreate(take a mate and
have a baby), and of all things he chooses Captain Janeway.

    One more thing, you wouldn't happen to know where I could find a
Starlog #142 off hand would you?

Tracy Klein
email: niteowl@minot.com

--- HyperMail! v1.20
 * Origin: Nite Lites BBS, Minot ND (1:500/2)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 87 of 317
 From : Owen E. Oulton                      1:243/45        .pä 14 .âã 96 13:07
 To   : Brion Lienhart
 Subj : B5 RENEWED
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 BL> I agree with you on that, I'm annoyed at all of the stupid things
 BL> Hollywood does with firearms too.  However, just be aware that there are
 BL> revolvers with more than six shots. There was even a "semi-automatic
 BL> revolver", the top part of the frame and cylinder recoiled on a track and
 BL>cocked the hammer and advanced the cylinder. It was a british weapon.

Yes, and there was one French revolver in which the cylinder face moved forward
to seal against the base of the barrell, making it the only revolver even
manufactured which could be used with a silencer (although there is no evidence
that it ever was).  Another French revolver had a safety catch.  One of the most
bizarre revolvers was the LeMat (yet another French pistol), used widley by
Confederate forces in the Disagreement Between The States.  It had a .42 calibre
nine-shot cylinder with a 20ga. shotgun barrel in the centre!

CFN, O

--- Maximus 2.01wb
 * Origin: Pandora's Box, Ottawa, Ont. 613-829-1209 (1:243/45)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 88 of 317
 From : Brion Lienhart                      1:213/700.2     .pä 14 .âã 96 07:26
 To   : Todd Sullivan
 Subj : Environmental Issues
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On Mon Aug 12, Todd Sullivan said to Tracy Klein:

 -TS>Reports from the Interior indicate that Tracy Klein leaked the
 -TS>following to me, re: Environmental Issues

 TK> Hey man, this area is not for environment garbage and you can kiss my
 TK> butt on that one.

 -TS>Only as part of the discussion, and Nicolai has been fairly generous
 -TS>in his moderating.

 -TS>You missed the 3-month long flame-fest about nuclear stuff, so you're
 -TS>not equipped to comment.

He/She/It is probably reading the old messages from then and not looking at the
dates.




--- QM v1.31
 * Origin: Ministry of Peace - Carson City, NV (1:213/700.2)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 89 of 317
 From : GERRY NORMANDEAU                    1:243/95        .pä 14 .âã 96 14:55
 To   : KAY SHAPERO
 Subj : Flipping the Cordwainer B
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Standing at the gallows pole Kay Shapero spat a curse on Gerry Normandeau, accu
ing him of Flipping the Cordwainer B!

 GN>done using miniatures and cromakeying the actors on the scean.
 GN>Even at that time I fealt the show was a total joke. The idea was good
 GN>but man oh man what a dog! I hope they play it again soon, I just have
 GN>to see it again :)

 KS> How'd you like the way Our Heroine went nonchalantly wandering through
 KS> the  airless section with her hair hanging out from under her
 KS> supposedly sealed  space suit helmet?

HA! I have forgotten that one! The problem is I have forgotten too much
of the series. Remember Walter Koneg as a nasty alien with the same
attitude as Bester?


________________________________________________________________________
|  _______    |                   GERRY NORMANDEAU                     |
|  []    |    |   cn754@freenet.carleton.ca / Vanier, Ontario, CANADA  |
|  []    O    |~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~|
|  []   /|\   |Royal Hangman To His Majesty King Bruno The Questionable|
|  []   / \   |~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~|
|  []         |        "ALWAYS ROOM FOR ONE MORE, ME'LORD!"            |
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
... AD&D FLW: "Just how many 30th level wizards are there in this village?

___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20
--- Platinum Xpress/Wildcat! v1.2j
 * Origin: The OFFSPRING BBS! Orleans, Ontario CANADA (613)834-8587 (1:243/95)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 90 of 317
 From : GERRY NORMANDEAU                    1:243/95        .pä 14 .âã 96 15:07
 To   : JAMES WALTON
 Subj : Sound supressors
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Standing at the gallows pole James Walton spat a curse on Michael Harper, accus
ng him of Sound supressors!

 MH>  George Roy Hill, Julia Phillips and Tony Bill; a silenced revolver,
 MH>  something that is impossible by 1930's standards. It's not possible,
 MH>  even with the current designs in wheelguns. The gas escaping from the
 MH>  cylinder is enough to defeat the purpose of the silencer. Little
 MH>  idiocies like that are what annoys me worst about Hollywood...

 JW> Sound supressors (NOT silencers: that is a misnomer) have been around
 JW> since the 1890's.  And is is VERY easy to make a single use sound
 JW> supressor.  They are useful for close range work only since they take a
 JW> lot of velocity away from the bullet.

The one thing I realy hate is when they fire silenced automatic pistols
more than once with the stupid "Silencer sound". An automatic may fire
fairly well supprest only if the action is locked. That means only one shot
per. To shoot again you have to remove the silencer and unlock the action
and load another round and then lock the action amd put the silencer on
again.

________________________________________________________________________
|  _______    |                   GERRY NORMANDEAU                     |
|  []    |    |   cn754@freenet.carleton.ca / Vanier, Ontario, CANADA  |
|  []    O    |~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~|
|  []   /|\   |Royal Hangman To His Majesty King Bruno The Questionable|
|  []   / \   |~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~|
|  []         |        "ALWAYS ROOM FOR ONE MORE, ME'LORD!"            |
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
... AD&D FLW: "Naw - it's just sleeping..."

___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20
--- Platinum Xpress/Wildcat! v1.2j
 * Origin: The OFFSPRING BBS! Orleans, Ontario CANADA (613)834-8587 (1:243/95)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 91 of 317
 From : James Walton                        1:129/260       .pä 14 .âã 96 02:59
 To   : All
 Subj : Contest News
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
The Conference Committee of ConFluence '96 is proud to
announce the winner of the 1996 Short Story Contest.
Alan Irvine of Pittsburgh PA was awarded $100.00 for his
short story "A Heart Forged in Iron."

Mr. Irvine's story, judged to be the best entry overall to
utilize the theme "Forged In Iron", is a tale of ghosts and
betrayal.  It is published in the ConFluence '96 Con book.

Among other things, Mr. Irvine is a professional story
teller.

A second prize of $50.00 was awarded to the story "The
Newshound" by Jean Blevins Goldstrom, also of Pittsburgh.
Mrs. Goldstrom's story is published in the fanzine "Out of
James' Attic."

Further information about either of these stories can be
obtained from:

James Walton
ConFluence Short Story Contest
P. O. Box 59537
Pittsburgh PA 15210

or via the Internet:
jjwalton@telerama.lm.com

Congratulations to Mr. Irvine and Mrs. Goldstrom.





--- Via Silver Xpress V4.00 SW12427
 * Origin: ConFluence '97:  Virtual Bridges (1:129/260)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 92 of 317
 From : Lis Carey                           1:101/230       .pä 07 .âã 96 05:19
 To   : Pavel Viaznikov
 Subj : BY FORCE OF ARMS
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
PV> BK>   From the constitution of the CSA.
PV> BK>  **********************************************************************
PV> BK>      (4) No bill of attainder, ex post facto law, or law denying
PV> BK>  or impairing the right of property in negro slaves shall be
PV> BK>  passed.

PV>-  =8-Q=

PV>Is this really from the US Constitution?! I be damned... Stalin's Constituti
PV>sounded _far_ more democratic...

No, it's NOT from the _US_ Constitution; it's from the constitution of
the Confederate States of America - the Confederacy, the states that
_seceded_ from the United States of America in 1860, thus precipitating
the U.S. Civil War.

It was one of the complaints of southern slaveholders that the US
constitution _didn't_ contain any explicit, unambiguous protection of
slavery [although it did contain ambiguous and un-explicit protection of
it, and the rising tide of opinion in the northern states was
increasingly becoming anti-slavery.

 * OLX 2.1 TD * Hello, I am part number ¦ºÞº¦º¦Û¦ºÝ¦ºÝ¦¦

--- FLAME v1.0
 * Origin: Withouta Net - Drop In Anytime! - 617/846-5416 (1:101/230)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 93 of 317
 From : Roger Fingas                        1:163/215       .åò 15 .âã 96 00:18
 To   : David Johnston
 Subj : Space: Above and Beyond - reasons for cancellation
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
I agree, Space wasn't exactly the most cheerful show, but then again, neither is
the X-Files.  There was an episode of Space, "Fear," that I particularly liked
for this reason.

--- Maximus 3.01
 * Origin: BitByters BBS, Rockland ON, Can. (613)446-7773 v34, (1:163/215)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 94 of 317
 From : Owen E. Oulton                      1:243/45        .åò 15 .âã 96 14:51
 To   : Todd Sullivan
 Subj : Sound supressors
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 OEO> suppressor/silencer utterly useless.  Suppressors are only useful on
 OEO> weapons with a sealed breach.

 TS> Another bit of info on that (from "CArdinal of the Kremlin", Tom Clancy)
 TS> is that you basically have to have a single-shot weapon of a small
 TS> caliber for the best suppression.  Why?  A cycling auto makes noise.

Fiction isn't always a real good source, even Tom Clancy's.

It all depends of what types of noise you're trying to stop.  Under a lot of
circumstances, you're going to need a second-shot capability, which means
cocking the weapon yourself anyway, making just as much noise.  Besides, the
noise of the action cycling isn't that loud.  The optimal weapon for this sort
of thing is a semiauto pistol with an extra notch cut into the slide so that the
slide stop can be engaged when the slide is forward, giving one both
capabilities.

Calibre doesn't mean that much when it comes to sound suppression, it's bullet
velocity that counts, since a supersonic round (1130+ ft/sec) makes a sonic
boom.  The reason most covert types use small calibre weapons is that the weapon
itself, as well as the silencer/silencer tend to be smaller, and thus more
concealable.

CFN, O

--- Maximus 2.01wb
 * Origin: Pandora's Box, Ottawa, Ont. 613-829-1209 (1:243/45)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 95 of 317
 From : Glenn Shaheen                       1:3600/7        .cê 11 .âã 96 23:01
 To   : Steve James
 Subj : 1984 flick
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

SJ>        Well, it's been a while, but if memory serves correctly, I though
SJ>it
SJ>was pretty faithful. Have you seen it yet, or are you just trying to find
SJ>out
SJ>if it's worth watching? I'd recommend it ...

        I just saw it today. It was pretty faithful, but there were some
nuances that you had to read the book to get the full effect of.
-=-
 * OLX 2.2 * Dyslexia for cure found!

--- SLMAIL v3.5C  (#1540)
 * Origin: Robotech  -=-Fansubbed anime available upon request-=- (1:3600/7)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 96 of 317
 From : Patty Moniz                         1:260/388       .òp 13 .âã 96 22:45
 To   : FRANK SWARBRICK
 Subj : on Sci-Fi Channel
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE 1.11+
---On 08-10-96  11:52, Frank Swarbrick screamed about on Sci-Fi Channel...

 FS> Just heard that the Sci-Fi Channel has aquired the rights to the
 FS> reruns of Earth 2, seaQuest, and MANTIS.

 YAHOO!!!!!!  I was just starting to really get into Earth 2 when it got
 cancelled.  I only saw, like, half of the episodes.  Cool.  Now I can see
 them all.

 About seaQuest: do you know if it's all the episodes, or just the first
 season?  Probably all of them, right?  I LOVED the first season.  I wish I
 had it all on tape.  But the second season stunk, and the third made me
 nautious.  They really killed that show.

 FS> If anyone's interested, that is.  I wasn't a fan of any of those
 FS> shows.  Now if they could get the rights to good shows like VR.5,
 FS> American Gothic and Nowhere Man!  :-)

 Liked VR.5, never saw American Gothic.  I thought Nowhere Man was still
 playing on UPN?


 Patty

Shadowcat
pmoniz@erc.cat.syr.edu

... "I've got places to go, people to dissect." -- Natalie Lambert

___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20 [NR]
--- GEcho 1.11+ The BEST
 * Origin: Dragon's Cave, South of Texas, NY. 315-963-3389 (1:260/388)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 97 of 317
 From : Patty Moniz                         1:260/388       .òp 13 .âã 96 22:50
 To   : BRIAN STREIB
 Subj : sf channel
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE 1.11+
---On 08-08-96  21:43, Brian Streib screamed about sf channel...

 BS> Hey Every saturday morn they show Japenese Animation...  They Vary a
 BS> little..  They have this one that they show every once in a while..
 BS> Demon City Shoko or something to that exstent.. Awesome movie......

                ^^^^^

 That's "Demon City Shinjuku".  ^_^  Cool movie, but I liked Vampire Hunter D
 better. :)



Shadowcat
pmoniz@erc.cat.syr.edu

___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20 [NR]
--- GEcho 1.11+ The BEST
 * Origin: Dragon's Cave, South of Texas, NY. 315-963-3389 (1:260/388)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 98 of 317
 From : Todd Sullivan                       1:202/720.3     .òp 13 .âã 96 20:09
 To   : Frank Glover
 Subj : By Force Of Arms
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Reports from the Interior indicate that Frank Glover leaked the following to me,
re: By Force Of Arms

 TS>>  personal force fields without causing any of the literally explosive
 TS>>  reactions caused by laser/blaster guns.  IIRC, the interactions of
 TS>>  the two energies caused explosions in the kiloton range.
 FG>
 FG>    Interesting. Not unlike a prediction I once made that personal
 FG> conflicts on space ships, space stations, etc. would tend to return to
 FG> bladed weapons, as the use of firearms in a thin-walled pressurized
 FG> enclosure would make life unplesant for the attacker as well....

Sounds like the final scene of CJ Cherryh's "Rimrunners", where suits are worn
for the same reason.

Todd Sullivan
Email: todd.sullivan@202-720.mx1.fidonet.org

... Historical Impersonations presents Napoleon Bonaparte as the R-101
     disaster.

-*- ASTG 1.9

--- Spot 1.3a Unregistered
 * Origin: Todd's Spot in the Continuum (1:202/720.3)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 99 of 317
 From : Todd Sullivan                       1:202/720.3     .òp 13 .âã 96 20:17
 To   : David Johnston
 Subj : By Force Of Arms
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Reports from the Interior indicate that David Johnston leaked the following to
me, re: By Force Of Arms

 ->> personal force fields without causing any of the literally explosive
 ->> reactions caused by laser/blaster guns.  IIRC, the interactions of
 ->> the two energies caused explosions in the kiloton range.

 DJ> Yes but the reason for that plot device was so they could go around
 DJ> bopping each other with swords.

That might be true, but I'm sure Frank Herbert wanted to get away from the
"Flash Gordon" approach to SF in print.

The "Pulp" era of fiction made so much of it to be nearly a mockery, from some
of the reading I've done.  Can't blame him at all.

Todd Sullivan
Email: todd.sullivan@202-720.mx1.fidonet.org

... "I am the parking meter that expires while you shop." --Darkwing Duck

-*- ASTG 1.9

--- Spot 1.3a Unregistered
 * Origin: Todd's Spot in the Continuum (1:202/720.3)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 100 of 317
 From : Todd Sullivan                       1:202/720.3     .òp 13 .âã 96 20:19
 To   : Phill Ash
 Subj : BY FORCE OF ARMS
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Reports from the Interior indicate that Phill Ash leaked the following to me,
re: BY FORCE OF ARMS

 TS>> Seems to me that it was a Luddite reaction that got cannonized, via
 TS>> the Orange Catholic Bible.  I'd guess it was political, but it wasn't
 TS>> exactly explained.

 PA>         By virtue of the name, "The Butlerian Jihad", I'd assume a Holy
 PA>         War =)

Ah, yes.  Now I remember.  I'd say the Luddites won that one. :^)

Todd Sullivan
Email: todd.sullivan@202-720.mx1.fidonet.org

... Grits:  Cream of Wheat with an attitude...

-*- ASTG 1.9

--- Spot 1.3a Unregistered
 * Origin: Todd's Spot in the Continuum (1:202/720.3)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 101 of 317
 From : Todd Sullivan                       1:202/720.3     .òp 13 .âã 96 20:21
 To   : Owen E. Oulton
 Subj : Sound supressors
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Reports from the Interior indicate that Owen E. Oulton leaked the following to
James Walton, re: Sound supressors

 JW>> since the 1890's.  And is is VERY easy to make a single use sound
 JW>> supressor.  They are useful for close range work only since they take a
 JW>>  JW> lot of velocity away from the bullet.

 OEO> And they *DO NOT* work with revolvers.  A suppressor/silencer works by
 OEO> trapping the expended propellant gasses and releasing them slowly so
 OEO> as to avoid the noise of their explosive expansion.  Revolvers have a
 OEO> gap between the face of the of the cylinder and the base of the
 OEO> barrell, through which enough gas escapes to render a
 OEO> suppressor/silencer utterly useless.  Suppressors are only useful on
 OEO> weapons with a sealed breach.

Another bit of info on that (from "CArdinal of the Kremlin", Tom Clancy) is that
you basically have to have a single-shot weapon of a small caliber for the best
suppression.  Why?  A cycling auto makes noise.

Todd Sullivan
Email: todd.sullivan@202-720.mx1.fidonet.org

... "And how did you get into drugs?"  "I forget, man." --George Carlin

-*- ASTG 1.9

--- Spot 1.3a Unregistered
 * Origin: Todd's Spot in the Continuum (1:202/720.3)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 102 of 317
 From : Jeff Hancock                        1:3600/7        .òp 13 .âã 96 21:04
 To   : Leman Russ
 Subj : Gundam 0083
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

LR> If you like Gundam, try the roleplaying game "Mekton". I know the

Gomen, no interest in roleplaying games, demo arigato.
-=-
 * Crazy-J * ....Perhaps your next clone will do better.

--- SLMAIL v3.5C  (#1540)
 * Origin: Robotech  -=-Fansubbed anime available upon request-=- (1:3600/7)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 103 of 317
 From : Jeff Hancock                        1:3600/7        .òp 13 .âã 96 20:22
 To   : Don Bach
 Subj : Irresponsible Cap. Tailor
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

DB> JH> Also saw the first episode of Irresponsible Captain Tailor.  No
DB>What network or syndication is this show seen on?  I haven't found it

Japanese television some years back.  Currently only available on import
laserdisc (untranslated) and through fan tape traders (subtitled in
English by fans).  And you'd be lucky to find the LDs.

DB>of the TV guide and from your description, would like to see it.

It's a definite hoot.  If you're interested, I can send you a list of
the tapes I have available.  (non-copyrighted in the U.S.)

My favorite moment so far was when Justy Tailor first stepped on the
bridge of his new command and proceeded to do what I think just about
all of us would do in the same situation.  <BG>

Actually I was wondering today if there was any intentional parody of
other shows in it.  The main character is somewhat reminescent of Red
Dwarf's Lister, in that he's very laid back, slothful, good-natured and
happy; but without the smart lip.  The First Officer is a straight-arrow
by-the-book guy, but is not incompetant or a smeghead like Rimmer.  No
other RD analogies, aside from an egotistical pilot, but that's not
atypical, and he's not even played over-the-top.

On another front, some people have mentioned a show on here I've never
seen, I think it may have been called "Probe", with two or three girls
who were androids?  Anyway, they all looked identical and
interchangeable.  ICT has two excessively cute, interchangable, twin
girls on board which *might* be a joke to that, but I wouldn't know for
sure.

Aside from that, there's a Russian (teddy) Bear of a guy for the medical
chief who drinks *all* the time, but has an incredible capacity for it.
Any other SF series have an alcoholic doctor?

Oh yeah, and the nav officer is very self-assured and confident, without
being a smeghead, just always cool and competent.  Stereotype?

-=-
 * Crazy-J * "Mr. Gates, there's a Ms. Nabiki Tendo here to see you."

--- SLMAIL v3.5C  (#1540)
 * Origin: Robotech  -=-Fansubbed anime available upon request-=- (1:3600/7)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 104 of 317
 From : Jeff Hancock                        1:3600/7        .òp 13 .âã 96 20:24
 To   : Leman Russ
 Subj : Japanese SF
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

LR> Was Jachie chan involved in Project a-ko? I've avoided his movies
LR>like the plague. >:[

Not that I know of.
Like I said, apparently in his sequal "Project-A 2", he had four
hench-villians named A, B, C, and D, as an in-joke to "Project A-ko".
Aside from that I have no idea but doubt it.
-=-
 * Crazy-J * "Like most stars it has no guidance system." -DW

--- SLMAIL v3.5C  (#1540)
 * Origin: Robotech  -=-Fansubbed anime available upon request-=- (1:3600/7)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 105 of 317
 From : Jeff Hancock                        1:3600/7        .òp 13 .âã 96 21:06
 To   : Patrick Duda
 Subj : Japanese SF
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

PD> Slip of the keyboard. I actually prefer the japanese voices (if only
PD>that they sound a bit _too_ young), now that i've heard them.

May be a bit of culture shock hitting you there.  I thought the dub,
what I heard of it, seemed a bit young.  Okay, well, at least childish.
;)


PD> I'n not gonna start a sub vs. dub though. :)

I wasn't planning on it either.  Been there, done that.  Except I was on
the other side last time.  <g>

PD>-> Period.  Regardless, and very possibly in part BECAUSE of, SOS.  It
PD> Hmm. Ouch. They seem to be very aware of who they 'target' now,
PD>though. It's news to me, though.

I have no idea what's the current sitch on the whole thing, people can't
seem to keep their web pages updated.  But, as far as most of the rumors
say, DIC has dropped it, the deal with TBS fell through, and come
September (Beginning or end of the month?  I dunno), no more SM, except
perhaps in Canada.

It doesn't surprise me though, not if the same people were fax-bombing
the offices in triplicate.  That's downright harassment.

PD>-> didn't sell toys and advertisers well enough.  Of course,
PD> Where I am they ran stories about SM being the new power rangers and
PD>how toys were selling out. I also see all sorts of SM stuff here now,
PD>too. Seems popular enough!

But is it selling OUT at your place?  ;)  If it were like that in more
areas around the country, the situation would probably be different.

PD>-> considering it hit a somewhat limited syndicated market and
PD> A look-up for it at the TVguide web site (for the whole west coast)
PD>only popped up one entry, the station I watch it on, KCOP. Is that

Bwah-hah-hah!  No, no, according to an old FAQ I have (updated 5/3/96),
there were a reported fifty-three stations showing it in North America.
A lot of the hours listed aren't too bad, although one station in New
York is reportedly showing it at 5am.

PD>_any_ way to get japanese TV here? OR some cheeper way to get lotsa

Satellite.  I was just out at a relative's house the other day, and he
was picking up Tokyo TV.  It was blanked out (not sure if he did that or
if it just wasn't broadcasting then), but he said he'd watched it on
occasion.  Mostly to laugh at the game shows.  You speak-a the language,
or do you not care?  ;)

PD>episodes of stuff (no fansubbing), like on LD.

No, and fansubbing will be cheaper than anything commercial anyway,
because it's Not For Profit.  If you mean "free" as in on television, I
doubt it.

Magic Knights Rayearth was set to be shown, and in fact I'm told it is
being shown in Mexico, dubbed in Spanish, but the deal for the U.S.
apparently fell through.

PD> I want the sailor moon R movie. They can keep the 'paris' one.

"Paris" one?  Have no clue what you mean.

I'll send you a copy of my list.
-=-
 * Crazy-J * I did not cheat. I just expanded the context of the game.

--- SLMAIL v3.5C  (#1540)
 * Origin: Robotech  -=-Fansubbed anime available upon request-=- (1:3600/7)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 106 of 317
 From : Jeff Hancock                        1:3600/7        .òp 13 .âã 96 20:40
 To   : Patrick Duda
 Subj : Japanese SF
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

PD>About Sailor Moon, I _know_. But jeez, imagine seeing 'ducktales'
PD>afterward. That;s BAD. They don't even observe the slightest
PD>semblance of real world physics.

Yes, but "Ducktales" is not supposed to be realistic.

And neither is "Sailor Moon".  It's somewhat _more_ real, but it's still
a fantasy.
-=-
 * Crazy-J * John Wayne's World:  Party time, pilgrim.

--- SLMAIL v3.5C  (#1540)
 * Origin: Robotech  -=-Fansubbed anime available upon request-=- (1:3600/7)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 107 of 317
 From : Jeff Hancock                        1:3600/7        .òp 13 .âã 96 21:07
 To   : Patrick Duda
 Subj : Macross 7
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

PD> Well, the stuff they have looks more like commerical rip-offs than
PD>the typical homemade stuff.

I forget what we were talking about... web sites, yes, but... Oh, right,
the Macross 7 stuff on the net you were talking about.

<shrug>  Haven't seen it.  Maybe I'll do a search next time I'm on.
I don't spend much time browsing if I can help it.

PD> What it is is some sort of intermidate server thing that lets
PD>english web browsers 'see' japanese text. So it does something like
PD>send the japanese doublebyte characters over as graphics instead of
PD>acii jibberish, or something. It makes connects slower though, IMO.

Ah.  Well it would have to.  Doesn't sound like it helps any more unless
you actually can read the kanji, though.

[Macross: Do You Remember Love]

PD>beggining). I showed the dubbed one to a friend and he was like at the
PD>end "what was that actually _about_ ?". Then I showed him the orignal

That was pretty much my impression.

PD>japanese (I haven't seen a subbed one) and he was like "Oooohhh!
PD>That's what it was about" :)

heh.  Yeah, I had an original once, somewhere, don't remember why or
how.  Tried to dig it up again years later, it wouldn't track.  However,
I am (hopefully) getting a copy of the subbed version.  Why not.

PD>  The macross2 movie is just all of the M2 episodes put together. I
PD>don't think it's cut. (if so only about 10 min, it's 120 minutes)

I'm pretty sure it's cut... There was some talk about it, but I don't
remember the specifics.  I think someone said that it moved much better
pared down to the essentials, but a few good parts got lost by
necessity.  (which is generally the way, one would think)

-=-
 * Crazy-J * "Yeah, and you're pasty peach. So?" - She Hulk

--- SLMAIL v3.5C  (#1540)
 * Origin: Robotech  -=-Fansubbed anime available upon request-=- (1:3600/7)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 108 of 317
 From : Phill Ash                           1:275/160       .åò 15 .âã 96 08:58
 To   : Todd Sullivan
 Subj : Klingons
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE 1.11+
From astride a Pale Horse, ùANATúô heard...

 TS> As for emulating them, we use the positive aspects as a basis, not the
 TS> blood-lust (although there are ways in a non-dangerous fashion) nor
 TS> the constant politicking.  It's the honor concept and the continuous
 TS> struggle, not the viciousness.

        What Honor...?

        With the exception of Worf, *all* Klingons are depicted as
        treacherous, treasonous backstabbers who would just as soon
        spend time creating excuses as to why they lost as sing tales of
        victory.

        The "Honourable Klingon" is a thing of myth...  It's that which
        Worf struggles to achieve, just as Data struggled to be "Human"
        and Spock struggled to be "Vulcan".



From the Office of the DeathMaster General...
---
 þ Ôystertags v1.2 þ Mothers never run...  Except when rape is near
--- Smile :)
 * Origin: * The Beast's Lair * (804)498-3070 * Va Beach VA * (1:275/160)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 109 of 317
 From : Patrick Duda                        1:218/801       .åò 15 .âã 96 15:29
 To   : Jeff Hancock
 Subj : Japanese SF
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12  91-0018

-> May be a bit of culture shock hitting you there.  I thought the dub,
-> what I heard of it, seemed a bit young.  Okay, well, at least
-> childish.

 Some of the voices are nice, most are not (NM one)

-> It doesn't surprise me though, not if the same people were
-> fax-bombing the offices in triplicate.  That's downright harassment.

 That was what they said absoloutely NOT to do. Guess people don't learn

-> Satellite.  I was just out at a relative's house the other day, and
-> he

 Well, I would want to anway, the cable here sucks (always out).

-> occasion.  Mostly to laugh at the game shows.  You speak-a the
-> language, or do you not care?  ;)

  I know only very little, less than I did when I was young, although I
intend to learn it. I really don't care either, the worst anime is
better than ducktales sound or not.

-> Magic Knights Rayearth was set to be shown, and in fact I'm told it
-> is being shown in Mexico, dubbed in Spanish, but the deal for the
-> U.S.

 I heard about that. I got all excited and then it just disappeared. :(

-> PD> I want the sailor moon R movie. They can keep the 'paris' one.
->
-> "Paris" one?  Have no clue what you mean.

 I don't think i'm imistaken, but I saw a movie poster with the whole
gang (with chibi-moon but no outer planet scouts) in paris, and I think
it was some sort of mini-movie. other scenes too, but I may have seen
clips from the other movies.

--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12
 * Origin: Star Tech Diamond Bar, CA 909-396-4227 714-257-1175  (1:218/801.0)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 110 of 317
 From : Patrick Duda                        1:218/801       .åò 15 .âã 96 15:30
 To   : Jeff Hancock
 Subj : Japanese SF
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12  91-0018

-> Yes, but "Ducktales" is not supposed to be realistic.
->
-> And neither is "Sailor Moon".  It's somewhat _more_ real, but it's
-> still a fantasy.

 But at least they don't pick up rocks and move whole houses without a
scratch, and the whole staple of american cartoons seems to suffer from
that. No pride in the work, ya know?

--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12
 * Origin: Star Tech Diamond Bar, CA 909-396-4227 714-257-1175  (1:218/801.0)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 111 of 317
 From : Patrick Duda                        1:218/801       .åò 15 .âã 96 15:31
 To   : Jeff Hancock
 Subj : Macross 7
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12  91-0018

-> I'm pretty sure it's cut... There was some talk about it, but I don't
-> remember the specifics.  I think someone said that it moved much
-> better pared down to the essentials, but a few good parts got lost by

 The Right Stuf international has it, it's like $25 or something and
it's 120 mintues. The individual 2 episode tapes are $20 (40 min) so
I wonder "why the great deal, am I missing something here?"

--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12
 * Origin: Star Tech Diamond Bar, CA 909-396-4227 714-257-1175  (1:218/801.0)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 112 of 317
 From : Bob Klahn                           1:234/2         .åò 15 .âã 96 18:48
 To   : Stephen Simmons
 Subj : WASTE DUMPING ...
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 SS>  ÕÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍµBob Klahn wrote:
BK>>> There was a suggestion of disposing of radioactive waste by dumping
BK>>> it in the sun. This raised objections of the possibility of triggering
BK>>> some sort of reaction. As if all the nuclear waste on earth would make
BK>>> a bubble on the sun.
BK>>> Of course, in _Bill the Galactic Hero_ they did manage to overload a
BK>>> star, but that was with ordinary garbage.

SS>>     As Heinlein pointed out in _Expanded_Universe_, this is a
SS>>     bad idea.  Yes, there are drawbacks to having the stuff
SS>>     around, but it would be a lot worse to irretrievably destroy
SS>>     it all and then find out that we could actually find a
SS>>     significant beneficial use for it.

BK>>Have had a couple discussions of this, your statement describes my
BK>>view pretty well also.

 SS>     As someone pointed out to us recently, this discussion really
 SS>     doesn't fit the topic of this echo.  I am interested in

 I thought "Bill the Galactic Hero" and Heinlein were on topic. However,
 we've pretty well exhausted my interest in the subject also.

 SS>     continuing discussions of this nature about this and other
 SS>     topics, however.  Is there a FidoNet echo more suited to it?
 SS>     I haven't found one, but I am pretty new here.

 I don't know, I'm on too many echos as it is.

BOB KLAHN   bob.klahn@toltbbs.com

... Birth rates for unmarried women,1961-92. Black:down 13.5% White:up 252%.
 * Silver Xpress V4.3P RB10275

--- FLAME v1.1
 * Origin: Telnet toltbbs.com or call 313-854-6001, Boardwatch #55 (1:234/2)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 113 of 317
 From : Mark Jones                          1:105/302.47    .cê 28 .þë 96 19:40
 To   : David Johnston
 Subj : By Force Of Arms
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On (27 Jul 96) David Johnston wrote to Frank Glover...

 DJ> -> Primairily a matter of the rights and authority of the
 DJ> -> individual states vs. the authority of a central government.
 DJ> -> (But I'm personally
 DJ>
 DJ> Enough already.  In what way was the central government attempting to
 DJ> assert it's authority over the southern states?  What were the issues?
 DJ> What was the biggest grievance?

   By trying to stamp out slavery (a worthwhile goal) which was,
nonetheless, legal in those states--and implicitly accepted in the
constitution, to boot.
   By refusing to permit the Confederate states to secede from the
Union.  (The Constitution does not give the union the explicit
authority to deny this, therefore it does not *have* that authority;
see the 9th and 10th amendments.  Of course, whether or not had the
legal authority, it had the might to do it anyhow...the sword being
the final argument of tyrants everywhere.)

--- PPoint 1.78
 * Origin: Folcroft Sanitarium (hsmith@cure.com) (1:105/302.47)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 114 of 317
 From : Mark Jones                          1:105/302.47    .òp 30 .þë 96 21:58
 To   : Jeff Hancock
 Subj : but about models...
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On (26 Jul 96) Jeff Hancock wrote to Mark Jones...

 JH> Well, it remains to be seen how much humanity can be put into a
 JH> CGI actor, not for lack of trying, of course. There's a
 JH> difference between someone playing their role and doing it
 JH> "naturally" and someone saying "Okay, he should shift his body
 JH> posture like *so*, slight tightening of the jaw *there*, okay,
 JH> now have him turn his head just slightly to one side..." ...

   Why not?  They do that now.  Claymation figures.  Animated figures.
 Even human actors--part of a director's job is telling the actors
what to do, and how to do it (so some extent).
   Besides, with a deep enough database and a sophisticated enough
program, you can probably get human-seeming actions out of virtual
actors.  They won't rival the greatest actors, of course--but then,
most *human* actors can't match the best either.

 JH> Maybe they'll have fuzzy logic advanced enough by then to make them as
 JH> erratic and natural as real humans. ;)  At which point they will of
 JH> course demand pay and benefits.

  Perhaps.  More likely, they'll simply have a huge database of
information on human behavior--from large things like running and
jumping to to things like going white (or flushed) with anger.  Then
you set the level of anger you want the figure to exhibit, and the
software determines exactly how it is expressed (and editing comes
into play when you decide that it wasn't quite what you wanted, and
you rework it).

   For that matter, whether or not we ever develop true artificial
intelligence, I believe we'll (relatively) soon have computers with
interface software so advanced that it will *seem* intelligent.


--- PPoint 1.78
 * Origin: Folcroft Sanitarium (hsmith@cure.com) (1:105/302.47)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 115 of 317
 From : Mark Jones                          1:105/302.47    .òp 30 .þë 96 22:15
 To   : Frank Glover
 Subj : Scheduling SF shows
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On (29 Jul 96) Frank Glover wrote to Mark Jones...

 FG> Asphyxiation, yes. Autoerotic, no. That's a dangerous practice
 FG> where people engage in borderline strangulation to allegedly
 FG> intensify orgasms. See the movie `Rising Sun' with Sean Connery
 FG> where it's a signifigant part of the plot....

   I don't think we saw enough to say for sure.  But that's how *I*
saw it....


--- PPoint 1.78
 * Origin: Folcroft Sanitarium (hsmith@cure.com) (1:105/302.47)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 116 of 317
 From : Mark Jones                          1:105/302.47    .òp 06 .âã 96 21:24
 To   : Todd Sullivan
 Subj : BY FORCE OF ARMS
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On (29 Jul 96) Todd Sullivan wrote to Bob Klahn...

 TS> Dunno about that.  According to Heinlein (in "Time Enough For Love"),
 TS> a slave economy can't compete with any other economy.  IIRC, he
 TS> mentioned the lack of initiative amongst the owners being the chief
 TS> reason.

   Some recent research disputes that.  WITHOUT CONSENT OR CONTRACT:
THE HISTORY OF SLAVERY IN AMERICA (I don't recall the author's name)
describes some new research which indicates that a slave economy can
work quite well.  The *moral* arguments are undisputable--but the
economic arguments (that slave economies can't compete with free labor
economies) may not be as solid as was once believed.
   Steve Stirling, I think, used some of this research in the creation
of his Draka novels.


--- PPoint 1.78
 * Origin: Folcroft Sanitarium (hsmith@cure.com) (1:105/302.47)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 117 of 317
 From : Mark Jones                          1:105/302.47    .òp 06 .âã 96 21:30
 To   : Bob Klahn
 Subj : BY FORCE OF ARMS
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On (30 Jul 96) Bob Klahn wrote to Mark Jones...

 BK>   Lot of words for something of little importance.

   So of course Abraham Lincoln was LYING when he told Horace Greeley
in 1864 that if saving the union required freeing all the slaves, he'd
do that; that if it required leaving them all in bondage, he'd do
*that*, and if it required freeing some and leaving the rest in
bondage, he'd do that too.
   Is that it?

   Not exactly the words of a man fighting to end slavery, eh?  More
like the words of a man who cared only about seeing that the USA was
like the mafia--you can join, but you can't quit.


--- PPoint 1.78
 * Origin: Folcroft Sanitarium (hsmith@cure.com) (1:105/302.47)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 118 of 317
 From : Brandon Wolgast                     1:363/281       .pä 14 .âã 96 13:09
 To   : All
 Subj : MST3K - Crow/Forester
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE/32 1.2
Well, first the original assistant to Dr. Forester leaves.  Then Tom
Servo gets a different voice (for the better), then Joel leaves, then of
course TV's Frank... and now, Crow/Forester is leaving the show.  Anyone
know how they are going to go about it without them? Give Crow a
different voice, or just do away with him and build a new 'bot?

Brandon

***
 * OLX 2.1 * Press "+" to see another tagline.

--- Use the FORCE!!!
 * Origin: Feduberator * STAR WARS Support * (407)381-2798 (1:363/281)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 119 of 317
 From : Nicolai Shapero                     1:102/524       .åò 15 .âã 96 20:44
 To   : Tracy Klein
 Subj : Star Trek
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Aug 12 10:02>, Tracy Klein (1:500/2) wrote to Nicolai Shapero:

 TK>    Better watch Star Trek: Voyager though, it might turn out to
 TK>be a
 TK>good season.

I suppose that I'll watch it, if I have nothing better to do.

 TK>find a
 TK>Starlog #142 off hand would you?

Sorry, don't pick up Starlog myself, so I can't be much help to you.  Best of
luck, though...

-- Nicolai Shapero, the Mad Russian Sysop of StormGate Aerie

--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 120 of 317
 From : Owen E. Oulton                      1:243/45        .åò 15 .âã 96 22:36
 To   : Gerry Normandeau
 Subj : Sound supressors
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 GN> The one thing I realy hate is when they fire silenced automatic pistols
 GN> more than once with the stupid "Silencer sound". An automatic may fire
 GN> fairly well supprest only if the action is locked. That means only one
 GN> shot per. To shoot again you have to remove the silencer and unlock the
 GN> action and load another round and then lock the action amd put the
 GN> silencer on again.

Huh?  What design of silencer are you thinking of?  Most silencers are threaded
onto the barrel.  If you're firing with a locked breech, all you need to do is
depress the slide lock lever and re-cock the weapon normally.  You only need to
fire from a locked breech if you're close enough to your targets for them to
hear the action cycling, which isn't all that loud.

CFN, O

--- Maximus 2.01wb
 * Origin: Pandora's Box, Ottawa, Ont. 613-829-1209 (1:243/45)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 121 of 317
 From : Zanadu                              1:243/45        .ÿò 16 .âã 96 00:05
 To   : All
 Subj : Books
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Hello !

As anyone read the series called the "AMTRACK WARS", by Patrick Tilley ?
It is a seven book series. It was a real mind bender ! It is an old series,
but if you can find it, you should pick it up. You might want to try second
hand book stores.

                                                       Later

                                                               Zanadu


--- Maximus 2.01wb
 * Origin: Pandora's Box, Ottawa, Ont. 613-829-1209 (1:243/45)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 122 of 317
 From : Henry Triplett                      1:106/564       .ÿò 16 .âã 96 14:05
 To   : KAY SHAPERO
 Subj : Flipping the Cordwainer B
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 KS> How'd you like the way Our Heroine went nonchalantly wandering through
 KS> the  airless section with her hair hanging out from under her
 KS> supposedly sealed  space suit helmet?

That reminds me of a film I'd seen while in the hospital a number of years
back.  I think it was an Italian film, circa 1961.  Anyway, our heroes have
to leave the spaceship for some reason, so they don what looks suspiciously
like scuba gear.  They proceeded to slip the regulators in their mouths,
(no helmet whatsoever) and then strolled out the airlock!!  I laughed so
hard that I almost busted all of my stitches.

Henry

... "Life's the test I didn't study for."

___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20 [NR]
--- GEcho 1.00
 * Origin: Eat Flaming Death    Houston Texas    713-447-1927 (1:106/564)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 123 of 317
 From : Phill Ash                           1:275/160       .ÿò 16 .âã 96 08:06
 To   : James Dixon
 Subj : BY FORCE OF ARMS
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE 1.11+
From astride a Pale Horse, ùANATúô heard...

 PA>        By virtue of the name, "The Butlerian Jihad", I'd assume a Holy
 PA>        War =)

 JD> It's fully explained in The Dune Encyclopedia...

        Only you would know that :)

                Seriously... "Dune Encyclopedia" huh?
                Who what where when...?
                Why wasn't I informed of this beest?

                (am I *that* out of touch?... too much LDS, I guess)


From the Office of the DeathMaster General...
---
 þ Ôystertags v1.2 þ Consequences are easily misconstrued
--- Smile :)
 * Origin: * The Beast's Lair * (804)498-3070 * Va Beach VA * (1:275/160)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 124 of 317
 From : Todd Sullivan                       1:202/720.3     .åò 15 .âã 96 16:41
 To   : Brion Lienhart
 Subj : Environmental Issues
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Reports from the Interior indicate that Brion Lienhart leaked the following to
me, re: Environmental Issues

 BL> On Mon Aug 12, Todd Sullivan said to Tracy Klein:

 BL> He/She/It is probably reading the old messages from then and not
 BL> looking at the dates.

Prob'ly, but most newbies tend to post first, read afterwards.

Todd Sullivan
Email: todd.sullivan@202-720.mx1.fidonet.org

... Can we yell *"FACT!"* in a room full of Fundies?

-*- ASTG 1.9

--- Spot 1.3a Unregistered
 * Origin: Todd's Spot in the Continuum (1:202/720.3)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 125 of 317
 From : Ben Noordegraaf                     1:252/107       .ÿò 16 .âã 96 19:29
 To   : All
 Subj : favourite books
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE 1.11+
my favourite science fiction books are

The dune series by frank herbert

they are the most awesome novels written ever in the history of the whole world

--- GEcho 1.11+
 * Origin: The Other Domain * Hawkestone ON * (705) 487-6520 (1:252/107)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 126 of 317
 From : Dave Ewen                           1:266/167       .óá 17 .âã 96 21:09
 To   : Lis Carey
 Subj : BY FORCE OF ARMS
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

LC>It was one of the complaints of southern slaveholders that the US
LC>constitution _didn't_ contain any explicit, unambiguous protection of
LC>slavery [although it did contain ambiguous and un-explicit protection of
LC>it, and the rising tide of opinion in the northern states was
LC>increasingly becoming anti-slavery.

I think it is sad that our constitution and laws are so ambiguous that
they require constant interpretation.

---
 þ SLMR 2.1a þ Vote for Gilligan! Free coconuts for everyone!
 * Origin: Logan's Run Swedesboro,NJ USA 609-467-9649 (1:266/167)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 127 of 317
 From : Jeff Hancock                        1:3600/7        .ÿò 16 .âã 96 17:48
 To   : James Dixon
 Subj : Anyone know about upcomin
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

JD>When's the next (if there's a next!) book in the Man-Kzin Wars series
JD>coming out?

Very soon, I ordered it a couple of weeks ago.  I don't think it's your
usual Man-Kzin Wars novel, though; it is supposed to explain how a race
like the Kzin could ever develop enough of a civilization to become what
they became, even before that alien race showed up to give them
star-faring technology.  (needless to say I forgot who they were
already ;)

-=-
 * Crazy-J * Lookatthismess!Turnoffyourdatacompressionnow!!

--- SLMAIL v3.5C  (#1540)
 * Origin: Robotech  -=-Fansubbed anime available upon request-=- (1:3600/7)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 128 of 317
 From : Jeff Hancock                        1:3600/7        .ÿò 16 .âã 96 18:00
 To   : Darre Luallen
 Subj : Japanese SF
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

DL>Appologies for not quoting (unless this does so automatically.  Then
DL>I'll appologize for over quoting.).  My local BBS took a lightning

You didn't, this time.  ;-)

DL>(the language) and fan subs.  As for the latter, I'll pass the list
DL>along to the couple of fans here.  Some of them have more money than
DL>sense, if you know the type. I'll place an order soon as well.

Okay, and okay.  No prob.  I think I am the type.  <g>

Got a few new things in though... mostly episodes 5-8 of Gundam 0083,
Irresponsible Captain Tailor, and Magic Knights Rayearth; episodes 1-4
of Gundam Wing and DNA2, and Lupin III: Castle Cagliostro.  Watched the
Gundam 0083, which continued the story in an unexpected way, somewhat
unsatisfying in one sense, but enjoyable in others.  There are
definitely a few things to quibble about, the Federation's discipline
seems practically nonexistant.  Other than that, great fun.

Also watched the Lupin which was a terrific movie, but unfortunately
there were a few defects in the tape so I'm trying to get a replacement.
Some people might find parts of it cliche now, but it's my understanding
that this is one of the sources of some of those cliches, particularly
the clock-tower sequence.

The rest may take a little while to get through. ;-)  Starting to know
what you mean about not having enough time, although if it wasn't for
the echomail I probably would.  But then who would I tell?  <g>

DL>so I might try them.  I'm a comm major, so I have to take some
DL>language. So far, it's been a toss up between Japanese, Russian and
DL>French (since I took three years in high school some ten years ago).

Sounds good.  Japanese might be the most difficult, though. ;)

-=-
 * Crazy-J * Ok! Enough of my sexually repressed anime fantasies...

--- SLMAIL v3.5C  (#1540)
 * Origin: Robotech  -=-Fansubbed anime available upon request-=- (1:3600/7)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 129 of 317
 From : Jeff Hancock                        1:3600/7        .ÿò 16 .âã 96 18:03
 To   : James Dixon
 Subj : Japanese SF
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

JD>JH>relative named "Moogi", sounding almost just like "Mughi", Kei and
JD>ANOTHER OKUDA INSIDE JOKE!

Is that anything like an Intel Inside joke?  ^_^

It's surprising no one has a comprehensive list of these references, but
at least that shows they're still putting them in there (this was the
rerun of this season's bar strike).
-=-
 * Crazy-J * "You get the Bouncing Naked Flesh channel on that?" -DM

--- SLMAIL v3.5C  (#1540)
 * Origin: Robotech  -=-Fansubbed anime available upon request-=- (1:3600/7)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 130 of 317
 From : Roy Stevens                         1:108/205       .åò 15 .âã 96 20:55
 To   : David Johnston
 Subj : BY FORCE OF ARMS
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
DJ>So is every government, if you define things loosely enough.  A real
DJ>dictatorship is one in which one individual (the dictator) dictates.

So what do ya think of Babylon 5's government?  Currently it's an
out-and-out military dictatorship. What Sheridan says is law.  Who out
there think B5 ought to have immediate democratic elections?

 * SLMR 2.1a * SHOCKING TRUTH:  50% of all people are below average.

--- TMail v1.31.5
 * Origin: MultiSystem * Cincinnati, OH * 513-231-7013 * (1:108/205)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 131 of 317
 From : Bob Klahn                           1:234/2         .óá 17 .âã 96 14:12
 To   : Mark Jones
 Subj : BY FORCE OF ARMS
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 MJ> On (30 Jul 96) Bob Klahn wrote to Mark Jones...

 BK>>   Lot of words for something of little importance.

 MJ>    So of course Abraham Lincoln was LYING when he told Horace Greeley
 MJ> in 1864 that if saving the union required freeing all the slaves, he'd
 MJ> do that; that if it required leaving them all in bondage, he'd do

 ...

 MJ>    Not exactly the words of a man fighting to end slavery, eh?  More

 ...
 He had previously established his interest in ending slavery. He may well
 have compromised himself to save the union, for which he does deserve blame.
 Which doesn't change the fact that the South seceeded, and fought, to
 protect slavery.

 If you wish to continue this let's take it to the debate echo.

BOB KLAHN   bob.klahn@toltbbs.com

... I have all the erasers to all the miniture golf pencils in the world.
 * Silver Xpress V4.3P RB10275

--- FLAME v1.1
 * Origin: Telnet toltbbs.com or call 313-854-6001, Boardwatch #55 (1:234/2)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 132 of 317
 From : Bill Clements                       1:18/230        .ÿò 16 .âã 96 16:06
 To   : Tracy Klein
 Subj : NUCLEAR BS
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
From the desk of a cynical old man...

Posted 07 Aug 96 - Tracy Klein to All

 TK> Will some please tell these people to get off the nuclear garbage,
 TK> this is a science fiction fan mail area, not some place to debate the
 TK> pros and cons of nuclear power.
 TK> It is getting sick and tiring, sitting here in front of the computer
 TK> looking at this forum and seeing nuclear crap in it.

Tracy: RTFM (acronym for Read The F*cking Manual)! In this case
read the "Rules for SFFAN" last published here on 5 Aug 96.

This "mail area" to which you so blithely post is carried on the
FidoNet backbone and is available to, though not necessarily
carried by, in excess of 53,000 nodes, and god only knows how
many users, worldwide. To be blunt; if you screw up here you do
so before a _LARGE_ audience.

You, having posted several messages, appear to consider yourself
an expert in the field of science fiction. I, having read
science fiction for over forty years, believe myself to be, at
the very least, knowledgeable in this area; and have decided to
test your expertise.

I challenge you to state, for the sake of bandwidth in 200 words
or less, science fiction's role in modern literature and its
relationship to reality (the universe as viewed by homo sapiens).

--rwc

... "Never underestimate the power of human stupidity." --LL

--- PPoint 2.00 / QWK

--- FLAME v1.1
 * Origin: ANCESTRY TBBS Shadows of forgotten ancestors 941-382-9061 (1:18/230)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 133 of 317
 From : Jared Callanan                      1:324/127       .óá 17 .âã 96 22:28
 To   : All
 Subj : Kindred;The Embraced
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE 1.11+
 ANyone like the show Kindred:The Embraced???

---
 * Origin: (1:324/127)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 134 of 317
 From : Josh Hill                           1:388/9         .îí 19 .âã 96 19:37
 To   : Frank Glover
 Subj : Re: Independence Day (Belated)
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
But Independence Day was more of the World triumphing as allies. I
think that it was very good for the simple fact that even though there
have been hundreds of movies where Earth is mutilated this is one of
the few that had a good plot. The aliens wanted our Earth for the
rescources. They didn't just want an Empire. Plus they were
destructable. Unlike other movies where the aliens were bullet proof or
something. This one had the aliens just like us, fragile. And just like
us, they had suits of protection...like armor. I think in most ways
Independence Day was excellent. I didn't like some of their puns
though. Like when Will Smith was getting married his character said "I
will." instead of "I do."

--- TriToss (tm) Professional 10.0 - #184
 * Origin: By Appointment Only, 817-756-1032, Waco TX (1:388/9.0)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 135 of 317
 From : Josh Hill                           1:388/9         .îí 19 .âã 96 19:41
 To   : Todd Sullivan
 Subj : Independence Day (Belated)
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
I have noticed that Godzilla has died over ten times. But they keep
bringing him back. And, with Rodan, Godzilla and other monsters that
have mutilated or destroyed Tokyo, I don't see how, in them ovies
anyway, that city is able to resurect itself.

--- TriToss (tm) Professional 10.0 - #184
 * Origin: By Appointment Only, 817-756-1032, Waco TX (1:388/9.0)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 136 of 317
 From : Leman Russ                          1:2250/7        .îí 19 .âã 96 05:05
 To   : Dave Ewen
 Subj : Re: BY FORCE OF ARMS
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 DE> I think it is sad that our constitution and laws are so ambiguous
 DE> that
 DE> they require constant interpretation.

 What's REALLY sad is that we've let lawyers twist things around so badly that
common sense and obvious meanings are now irrelevent and whatmatters is a
lawyers ability to "what if" an issue to death.

>;[

--- DLG Pro v1.0/DLGMail
 * Origin: Sage's Tower - Amiga - (618) 259-1844 (1:2250/7)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 137 of 317
 From : Leman Russ                          1:2250/7        .òp 20 .âã 96 05:21
 To   : All
 Subj : Ghost in the Shell
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 Some people here havebeen talking Anime and Japanese SF. Anyone have anything
to say about "Ghost in the Shell"?

"Giant robots? What a stupid ideaSTOMP!!!"

--- DLG Pro v1.0/DLGMail
 * Origin: Sage's Tower - Amiga - (618) 259-1844 (1:2250/7)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 138 of 317
 From : Roy Stevens                         1:108/205       .åò 15 .âã 96 22:19
 To   : Tracy Klein
 Subj : STAR TREK
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
TK>season. In one of the Voyager Episodes for this season, they will make it ba
TK>to Earth, but it will be the wrong year. Also Q(as played by John DeLancie)

No problem.  Time travel is old hat in the Trek universe.  Of course, it
has to involve the 20th century somehow.....:>


 * SLMR 2.1a * ... I have a mind like a steel ... animal catcher thingie

--- TMail v1.31.5
 * Origin: MultiSystem * Cincinnati, OH * 513-231-7013 * (1:108/205)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 139 of 317
 From : Roy Stevens                         1:108/205       .åò 15 .âã 96 22:21
 To   : Kay Shapero
 Subj : JAPANESE SF
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
KS> HT>Well, I think anime is on topic for this echo.  At least if I

KS>Of course it is.  Gets a fair amount of discussion lately, too.  :->

Just returned from GenCon where I saw some anime.  If anyone is looking
for a good laugh I heartily recommend "Ranma 1/2" or "Dragonhalf"


 * SLMR 2.1a * A fool and his money is my kind of customer!

--- TMail v1.31.5
 * Origin: MultiSystem * Cincinnati, OH * 513-231-7013 * (1:108/205)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 140 of 317
 From : Nicolai Shapero                     1:102/524       .îí 19 .âã 96 05:27
 To   : Bill Clements
 Subj : NUCLEAR BS
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Aug 16 16:06>, Bill Clements (1:18/230) wrote to Tracy Klein:

 BC>Tracy: RTFM (acronym for Read The F*cking Manual)! In this case
 BC>read the "Rules for SFFAN" last published here on 5 Aug 96.

I am the moderator here.  Please do not try and do my job, thank you.

-- Nicolai Shapero, Moderator of the SFFAN echo

--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 141 of 317
 From : Patty Moniz                         1:260/388       .îí 19 .âã 96 18:47
 To   : FRANK SWARBRICK
 Subj : on Sci-Fi Channel
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE 1.11+
---On 08-17-96  22:19, Frank Swarbrick screamed about on Sci-Fi Channel...

 PM> YAHOO!!!!!!  I was just starting to really get into Earth 2 when it
 PM> got  cancelled.  I only saw, like, half of the episodes.  Cool.  Now I
 PM> can see  them all.

 FS> I watched the first four episodes or so, but gave up.  Mostly just
 FS> because it was on too early!  I'll probably watch the whole series
 FS> when SFC starts airing it.

 Hahaha!  Yeah, it was on a little too early for me too.  I'd be in the
 middle of dinner when it came on.

 PM> Liked VR.5, never saw American Gothic.  I thought Nowhere Man was
 PM> still  playing on UPN?

 FS> Nowhere Man is finishing up it's first season repeats, but has been
 FS> cancelled.  UPN just doesn't have anything else to replace it with
 FS> until the fall season starts, probably!

 That sucks!  I LIKED Nowhere Man!

 FS> Another show I forgot to mention that I think the Sci-Fi Channel
 FS> should pick up is Space: Above and Beyond.

 Yes!!  I LOVE Space!!  Again, just as I was getting into it, it got taken
 off.  I just have bad luck with television.



Shadowcat
pmoniz@erc.cat.syr.edu

... "We're police officers, we're not trained for this kind of brutality!"

___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20 [NR]
--- GEcho 1.11+ The BEST
 * Origin: Dragon's Cave, South of Texas, NY. 315-963-3389 (1:260/388)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 142 of 317
 From : Brandon Wolgast                     1:363/281       .îí 19 .âã 96 16:14
 To   : Ben Noordegraaf
 Subj : Favourite Books
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE/32 1.2

BN>my favourite science fiction books are

BN>The dune series by frank herbert

BN>they are the most awesome novels written ever in the history of the whole wo

I agree they are great, and I feel they are second best.  I have since
read all seven Foundation novels and feel those slightly surpass the
Dune series.

Brandon

***
 * OLX 2.1 * "Only Imperial Stormtroopers are so precise." - Obi-Wan

--- Use the FORCE!!!
 * Origin: Feduberator * STAR WARS Support * (407)381-2798 (1:363/281)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 143 of 317
 From : Bob Klahn                           1:234/2         .òp 20 .âã 96 19:36
 To   : Kevin Ahearn
 Subj : BY FORCE OF ARMS
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 RS>> So what do ya think of Babylon 5's government?  Currently it's an
 RS>> out-and-out military dictatorship. What Sheridan says is law.  Who out
 RS>> there think B5 ought to have immediate democratic elections?

 KA> Now there's a can of worms for ya!  To start with, how would anyone who
 KA> is a "citizen" of B5?

 Babylon 5 was a government installation, under military authority, to begin
 with. It is now in rebellion against the government, a military installation
 in the middle of a war. I doubt elections are in the offing.

BOB KLAHN   bob.klahn@toltbbs.com

... Heard while waiting to give blood, "Let her do it, she needs the practice."
 * Silver Xpress V4.3P RB10275

--- FLAME v1.1
 * Origin: Telnet toltbbs.com or call 313-854-6001, Boardwatch #55 (1:234/2)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 144 of 317
 From : Bob Klahn                           1:234/2         .òp 20 .âã 96 19:36
 To   : Jeff Hancock
 Subj : BUT ABOUT MODELS...
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 JH>       Re: "face-acting"...this is something I've been working on a bit
 JH> lately in my scripts, letting the actor have a moment visually without
 JH> words to carry it.  When you're starting out in a show, and everyone's
 JH> new, you have a tendency to make sure that the emotions are expressed in
 JH> dialogue, in case the acting doesn't carry it off.  Then, over time, you
 JH> learn to relax and start playing the silences, using only a word or two
 JH> here and there.  A few scenes in some year 4 scripts play almost like
 JH> haiku.  You learn to trust your cast, and they respect that trust and
 JH> return it.
 JH> -=-=-=-
 JH> Then there's the whole matter of ... "presence", that good actors can
 JH> portray, the subtle nuances which transcend the whole...  I'd like to
 JH> see quality CGI creations as good as any actor, but it's going to be a
 JH> tough act to pull off.

 You know, in order to actually have CGI characters produce a movie as good
 as live actors can it may be necessary to have seperate CGI creators behind
 every character. That is the only way to get the variation between
 characters.

 With one person creating the entire movie from a single script everything
 will be too well planed. In real life nothing is timed or planed perfectly.
 It is subtle difference in how each person acts and reacts, the millisecond
 differences in movements, the irrational responses, that make human
 interaction human.

 It will take more than one person to allow for the differences that allow
 for the serendipitous accidents that create something great.

BOB KLAHN   bob.klahn@toltbbs.com

... I considered atheism, but there weren't enough holidays.
 * Silver Xpress V4.3P RB10275

--- FLAME v1.1
 * Origin: Telnet toltbbs.com or call 313-854-6001, Boardwatch #55 (1:234/2)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 145 of 317
 From : Michael Harper                      1:123/10        .òp 20 .âã 96 22:02
 To   : Owen E. Oulton
 Subj : B5 RENEWED
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
While sipping a dry martini, Owen E. Oulton told Michael Harper about B5
RENEWED...

 OEO> The most recent bit of Hollyweird weapons-related stupidity which
 OEO> comes to mind is from The Shadow.  In the early sequence in Tibet,
 OEO> when Ying Ko (Cranston) orders a man shot, the foley people carefully
 OEO> inserted the sounds of ejected cartridges hitting the stone steps.
 OEO> The only problem is that the two guards were firing revolvers.
 OEO> Ooooops!

 Yeek. I never even noticed it... The Shadow was so full of little
 idiocies that one little continuity break/prop department screwup
 zipped right past me...

 OEO> One little bit of trivia about the movie Butch Cassidy And The Sundance
 OEO> Kid is that throughout the movie, the director was extremely careful
 OEO> to have the guns fire six and only six shots before reloading, right
 OEO> up until the final climactic shootout where he had Butch and Sundance
 OEO> fire abut 12-15 rounds from each revolver.  The idea was that people
 OEO> who count rounds would be satisfied long before that point and would
 OEO> have stopped counting, so that he shoot the scene without having to
 OEO> break the action for reality's sake.

 That sounds like a typical George Roy Hill trick; he's one of the few
 directors I know of who can get away with a stunt like that. And I
 never noticed that one, either. The whole movie was so entertaining
 that I didn't catch that bit. Chalk it up to Bill Goldman's scripting
 prowess...


... "Think you used enough dynamite there, Butch?" --Sundance
--- RA/FD/FMail
 * Origin: The Eclectic Fox -- Memphis TN  (901)327-1008 (1:123/10)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 146 of 317
 From : Michael Harper                      1:123/10        .òp 20 .âã 96 22:02
 To   : Brion Lienhart
 Subj : B5 RENEWED
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
While sipping a dry martini, Brion Lienhart told Michael Harper about
B5 RENEWED...

 -MH> I dig. My point, though, is that Hollywood seldom does it's research.

 BL> Can't argue with that.

 BL> I think you mean _The Outlaw Josie Wales_, the one where Clint is the
 BL> last of the Red Legs. That one has a whole lot of gunplay in it, with
 BL> the final battle having Clint pull out about five revolvers and empty
 BL> all of them. _Pale Rider_ only had a couple of gun fights, which were
 BL> mostly Clint against one to three other guys. Hey, it's on topic,
 BL> they're fantasy!

 No, I meant _Pale Rider_; oddly enough, I never saw _Josey Wales_. I
 know it predates _Rider_ by a bit, but at the time I wasn't all that
 fond of Westerns... I'd mostly forgotten about it. For all my vast
 store of knowledge, some things are greatly lacking...


... "Nobody draws 'til this can hits the ground." --Snake Plissken
--- RA/FD/FMail
 * Origin: The Eclectic Fox -- Memphis TN  (901)327-1008 (1:123/10)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 147 of 317
 From : Owen E. Oulton                      1:243/45        .pä 21 .âã 96 13:47
 To   : Michael Harper
 Subj : B5 RENEWED
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 OEO> One little bit of trivia about the movie Butch Cassidy And The Sundance
 OEO> Kid is that throughout the movie, the director was extremely careful
 OEO> to have the guns fire six and only six shots before reloading, right
 OEO> up until the final climactic shootout where he had Butch and Sundance
 OEO> fire about 12-15 rounds from each revolver.  The idea was that people
 OEO> who count rounds would be satisfied long before that point and would
 OEO> have stopped counting, so that he shoot the scene without having to
 OEO> break the action for reality's sake.

 MH>  That sounds like a typical George Roy Hill trick; he's one of the few
 MH>  directors I know of who can get away with a stunt like that. And I
 MH>  never noticed that one, either. The whole movie was so entertaining
 MH>  that I didn't catch that bit. Chalk it up to Bill Goldman's scripting
 MH>  prowess...

Well, IMNSHO, I think that to pull off a trick of that maginitude, you's also
have to credit Newman and Redford, as well as Hill himself.  That sort of thing
requires a team effort.

CFN, O

--- Maximus 2.01wb
 * Origin: Pandora's Box, Ottawa, Ont. 613-829-1209 (1:243/45)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 148 of 317
 From : Bill Clements                       1:18/230        .òp 20 .âã 96 20:29
 To   : Bob Klahn
 Subj : BY FORCE OF ARMS
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
From the desk of a cynical old man...

"Your enemy is never a villain in his own eyes. Keep this in
mind; it may offer a way to make him your friend. If not, you can
kill him without hate--and quickly."
                                      --Lazarus Long

Posted 17 Aug 96 - Bob Klahn to Mark Jones

 BK> Which doesn't change the fact that the South seceeded, and fought, to
 BK> protect slavery.

Let's reword this slightly, dispense with the "good north, bad
south" rhetoric, and look closely at the _BOTTOM_LINE_.

Which doesn't change the fact that the South seceded, and fought, to
protect _their_investment_in_ slavery.

Gerry Normandeau on 31 Jul 96 mentioned the southerners capital
investment in slavery which, in the heat of battle, was
ignored.  Southern businessmen had in excess of
$5,000,000,000,000.00, five billion (1860) U.S. dollars,
invested in the tangible personal property known as slaves. Was
there mention of compensation for the south's monetary
investment made in any of the arguments for the abolition of
slavery? I think not! Such consideration might have ended the
dispute that became the War Between the States (The Civil War).

Imagine, if you would, an alternate universe in which the south
did not secede from the union, the north had a close
approximation of modern civil rights, and slavery had survived
until the present. Imagine a group of political activists
(activist [n.] individual, easily led, who, on his own time and
with his own money, by energetic action, usually without full
knowledge or thought, seeks to fulfil the promises, often false,
of a political program; person with more time and money than
sense; dupe), their cause championed by a northern congressman
(needing more visibility in an upcoming election), agitating to
free the slaves. Now, imagine the debate in the House of
Representatives with the representative from Virginia, standing
firm, saying. "Mr. Speaker; the state of Virginia will give up
the institution of slavery, on which our livelihood depends,
only at such time as my constituents are compensated dollar for
dollar, by the U.S. Government, for their tangible personal
property which it intends to appropriate." Imagine the circus
that the lawyers, politicians, and--of course the media would
make of this issue. Imagine the, luddite, political activists
mining cotton fields and shooting southerners as they now spike
trees and kill doctors in the protest of logging and abortion.
Imagine ...

Of course there would be war. The concept of individual rights
would be extant however the money for compensation would not,
and political activists will never give up their cause simply
for the lack of funding. Thus the only way to liberate
(euphemism for steal) the aforementioned tangible personal
property would be ... BY FORCE OF ARMS.

--rwc

... "A brute kills for pleasure. A fool kills from hate." --LL


--- PPoint 2.00 / QWK

--- FLAME v1.1
 * Origin: ANCESTRY TBBS Shadows of forgotten ancestors 941-382-9061 (1:18/230)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 149 of 317
 From : Steve James                         1:170/600.30    .îí 19 .âã 96 23:13
 To   : Glenn Shaheen
 Subj : 1984 flick
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On (11 Aug 96) Glenn Shaheen was telling me about 1984 flick ...

 GS>         I just saw it today. It was pretty faithful, but there were
 GS> some nuances that you had to read the book to get the full effect of.

        Yeah, that's about what I remembered. Of course, just about everything
is better in the book ...


... "Oh joy! Rapture! I've got a brain!" -- Scarecrow, "The Wizard of Oz"

--- PPoint 2.00
 * Origin: Steve James: Global Village Idiot (1:170/600.30)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 150 of 317
 From : EDWIN HANSEN                        2:2802/341.1    .óá 17 .âã 96 18:06
 To   : Roger Fingas
 Subj : Space: Above and Beyond - reasons for cancellation
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Hoi Roger,


 RF>>  I agree, Space wasn't exactly the most cheerful show, but then again,
 RF>> neither is the X-Files.  There was an episode of Space, "Fear," that I
 RF>> particularly liked for this reason.

 RF>>  --- Maximus 3.01
 RF>>   + Origin: BitByters BBS, Rockland ON, Can. (613)446-7773 v34,
 RF>> (1:163/215) $áI

 Than i have a question for you.
 WHY ISN'T X-FILES A CHEERFUL SHOW ACCORDING TO YOU??????????

 PLEAS WRITE ME BACK, BECAUSE WHERE I LIVE, AND THAT IS IN HOOLAND, THE X-FILES
IS A GREAT SHOW SO???????????????????????

It's name is BBs Total Spirit
24 Hours online at number 09-31-076-5205747

--- WtrGate 0.90.p7 beta Unreg
 * Origin: = BBS TOTAL SPIRIT Tel : 076 5205747 (24 Hr) == (2:2802/341.1)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 151 of 317
 From : Ted Stout                           1:270/435       .pä 21 .âã 96 06:58
 To   : All
 Subj : Independence Day
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
I thought the Power PC Mac powerbook was insanely cool in Independence Day!
Thank God the guy uploading the virus didn.t have to wade through WIN.INI. or
C:/ RN. VIR. ALIE. INI. or some other arcane DOS command!
Ted

--- Maximus 3.01
 * Origin: The Good News BBS  Bowmansville, PA (1:270/435)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 152 of 317
 From : Patrick Duda                        1:218/801       .pä 21 .âã 96 14:01
 To   : Brion Lienhart
 Subj : Japanese SF
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12  91-0018

>Ducktales. It's a disney cartoon, for one thing, which means it's not going
>to  anything like Sailor Moon. It's about talking ducks, for crying out

  It's not the actual idea I have a problem with, it's the attitude.
  the show is targeted IMO at about 10-14 years old. The heroes are faced
  with a 10ton rock blocking their exit. Smashing it with Mars Fire is
  one thing, having a 'cave duck' smash it with a WOOD club is another.
   These are 30 year old professional writers, and this is their best?
  Also TailSpin. No aerodynaics at all in a toon about PLANES. For instance,
  in one ep. they have Baloo (a 400lb bear) flying at 20000ft in a
  plane made of a CARDBOARD BOX with a lawnmower engine. I mean COME ON!
  At least have it be an old airframe with a car engine or something.
   My problem is that this is the _industry norm_!

>loud. They  are cartoons about Donald Duck's uncle, Scrooge McDuck and
>Donald's three  "nephews" Huey, Looey, and Dewey. How realistic do you want

  I don't expect them to quote Shakespeare, but come on. For instance,
  Sailor Moon vs. 'Guieniviere and the Jewel Riders'. Apparently we cannot
  even come up with ORIGINAL names for the characters.


>p.s. I saw your other message, Gargoyles is pretty good. Another good one
>is  Darkwing Duck, about a Duck Defender of the Night (Batman parody), and
>funny  animals with super powers. No more silly than The Tick, for instance.

 Gargoyles is GREAT, but look at the credits. It's the benchmark, IMO.
 Batman was great, as was XMen, and TICK was outstanding for the COMEDY
 series it was.
  Darkwing duck is good as well. It's a COMEDY, and doesn't try to present
  itself as a serious toon. When you compare it with the drama that ducktales
  tries to create with GizmoDuck, well...
  Rescue Rangers is good as well, since it also doesn't expect you to take
  the stories seriously. (going into orbit with 10 sticks of TNT? :)

  I really am looking forward to 'Superman', made from the same
  guys as 'Batman'.

---
 * MikeMayl v1.0 * Press a key to continue...Not that one!*%@$NO CARRIER

--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12
 * Origin: Star Tech Diamond Bar, CA 909-396-4227 714-257-1175  (1:218/801.0)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 153 of 317
 From : Todd Sullivan                       1:202/720.3     .òp 20 .âã 96 17:18
 To   : Josh Hill
 Subj : Independence Day (Belated)
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Reports from the Interior indicate that Josh Hill leaked the following to me,
re: Independence Day (Belated)

 JH> I have noticed that Godzilla has died over ten times. But they keep
 JH> bringing him back. And, with Rodan, Godzilla and other monsters that
 JH> have mutilated or destroyed Tokyo, I don't see how, in them ovies
 JH> anyway, that city is able to resurect itself.

I suppose after 1945, anything else would have been a mere bagatelle...

Todd Sullivan
Email: todd.sullivan@202-720.mx1.fidonet.org

... "Your thoughts became a song." --Kosh

-*- ASTG 1.9

--- Spot 1.3a Unregistered
 * Origin: Todd's Spot in the Continuum (1:202/720.3)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 154 of 317
 From : Todd Sullivan                       1:202/720.3     .òp 20 .âã 96 17:20
 To   : Henry Triplett
 Subj : Japanese SF
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Reports from the Interior indicate that Henry Triplett leaked the following to
JEFF HANCOCK, re: Japanese SF

 -=>> Quoting Jeff Hancock to Patrick Duda <=-

 JH>> Are you *sure* it was Paris?  I'm fairly sure there's a tower in Japan
 JH>> which resembles the Eiffel <sp> Tower.  It was in the first episode of
 JH>> MKR, too.

 HT> This tower also shows up in a number of Godzilla-type movies and has
 HT> been
 HT> in a large number of the Sailor Moon episodes that I've seen.
 HT> Obviously
 HT> it's a famous local landmark, at least in Tokyo.  I wonder if anyone in
 HT> here knows what it's called?

Uh, "Tokyo Tower"?

<Geez, Henry!>

Todd Sullivan
Email: todd.sullivan@202-720.mx1.fidonet.org

... "Users...Wrote us.  A User Wrote even you." --Sark
    "No one user wrote me; I'm worth millions of their man-years!" --MCP

-*- ASTG 1.9

--- Spot 1.3a Unregistered
 * Origin: Todd's Spot in the Continuum (1:202/720.3)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 155 of 317
 From : Frank Swarbrick                     1:104/825       .òp 20 .âã 96 20:04
 To   : Roger Fingas
 Subj : Space: Above and Beyond
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12  92-0022
On 08-19-96  22:49, shipwrecked and comatose, Roger Fingas said:

 RF> Thanks for the right name of that one episode ("The Enemy").  I have
 RF> to admit that I didn't watch Space regularly, but I want to know: what
 RF> was your favorite episode, off hand?

The first episode I liked a lot was "Eyes."  Had to do with some sort
of conspiracy on Earth, though I forget exactly what.  They never
followed it up.  Apparently the producers felt it was too X-Filish and
wanted to get away from that.

"Who Monitors The Birds?" was pretty cool.  The one with Hawkes on a
mission by himself.  Very little dialogue.  Quite a unique episode.

The final two episodes of the season were quite good as well.

        Frank

... Did I mention we're federal agents?
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12
 * Origin: The Bailey Information Exchange BBS, 28.8k v.fc  (1:104/825.0)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 156 of 317
 From : James Walton                        1:129/260       .åò 22 .âã 96 01:05
 To   : All
 Subj : Writing Contest
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
ConFluence '97 Short Story Contest

PARSEC proudly announces the Third Annual ConFluence Short Story Contest!

A prize of $100 will be awarded to the author of the best submitted story
which features our topic.  At the judges discretion, there may be a second
place winner, which will be awarded $50.

This year the topic, feature, subject, source of inspiration, etc. is:

                 Virtual Bridges

Virtual Bridges of some kind must figure into your story.  (Hey _you_
tell _US_ what Virtual Bridges are:  you are the author!)

The deadline for story submissions is June 1, 1997.

Submitted stories must be 3500 words long or less.

All manuscripts must be typed and double-spaced with 1 inch margins.

The authors name must not appear on any of the story pages.

Each page must be numbered and have one or two words from the title printed
in the top, left-hand corner.

A title page bearing the name and address of the author must accompany each
manuscript.

If you want your manuscript returned, please enclose a return envelope with
suitable postage.

Please send all manuscripts to the address below:

ConFluence '97 Short Story Contest
P. O. Box 59537
Pittsburgh PA 15210

Stories may also be submitted in electronic form via E-mail to:

jjwalton@telerama.lm.com

Start writing and good luck!
---
 * Origin: ConFluence '97: Virtual Bridges,  (1:129/260)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 157 of 317
 From : Roy Stevens                         1:108/205       .îí 19 .âã 96 22:00
 To   : Patty Moniz
 Subj : ON SCI-FI CHANNEL
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
PM> YAHOO!!!!!!  I was just starting to really get into Earth 2 when it got
PM> cancelled.  I only saw, like, half of the episodes.  Cool.  Now I can see
PM> them all.

I liked it too. I still remember the way I felt when they left the
doctor all by herself.  All alone on an alien world.

PM> About seaQuest: do you know if it's all the episodes, or just the first
PM> season?  Probably all of them, right?  I LOVED the first season.  I wish I
PM> had it all on tape.  But the second season stunk, and the third made me
PM> nautious.  They really killed that show.

Ditto. Once they introduced ghosts and Roman sea gods I started to lose
interest.

PM> Liked VR.5, never saw American Gothic.  I thought Nowhere Man was still
PM> playing on UPN?

Yuck.  Didn't like VR.5 at all.  Nowhere Man is showing repeats right
now, but the show was cancelled.

 * SLMR 2.1a * Cats: God's way of telling you your furniture is too nice

--- TMail v1.31.5
 * Origin: MultiSystem * Cincinnati, OH * 513-231-7013 * (1:108/205)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 158 of 317
 From : Roy Stevens                         1:108/205       .îí 19 .âã 96 22:06
 To   : Owen E. oulton
 Subj : SOUND SUPRESSORS
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
OEO>Huh?  What design of silencer are you thinking of?  Most silencers are thre
OEO>onto the barrel.  If you're firing with a locked breech, all you need to do
OEO>depress the slide lock lever and re-cock the weapon normally.  You only nee
OEO>fire from a locked breech if you're close enough to your targets for them t
OEO>hear the action cycling, which isn't all that loud.

Ah, but if you really want it silent, just get the guy to step outside
his spaceship (this is the SF echo afterall) and shoot him.
Vacuum=silence.  BTW, would a gun work in space?  I can't imagine gun
powder would work without oxygen.

 * SLMR 2.1a * They told me I was gullible ... and I believed them!

--- TMail v1.31.5
 * Origin: MultiSystem * Cincinnati, OH * 513-231-7013 * (1:108/205)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 159 of 317
 From : Patrick Duda                        1:218/801       .åò 22 .âã 96 10:47
 To   : Leman Russ
 Subj : Ghost in the Shell
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12  91-0018

> Some people here havebeen talking Anime and Japanese SF. Anyone have
>anything to say about "Ghost in the Shell"?

   I said a lot about it a few weeks ago. It's a nice movie, certainly the
   new benchmark in Anime. However like the other popular manga>anime
   translation Akira GITS leaves much to be desired. It's a spectacular
   movie, that transfers 90% of the action, although only 10% of the
   story. Rent the video, buy the manga.

  BTW, I also have been researching Macross 7 a bit more. Although this is
  not directed at you, I think it's interesting (and i'm to lazy to
  start another message).

   I found out the thing is about 50 episodes long, each 30 min. It aired
   apparently a year or so ago (early 1995?). There are already several
   spinoffs either made or in the process of being made, and there are
   several CD's available featuring the outstanding music of the series.

---
 * MikeMayl v1.0 * Proofread carefully to see if you any words out.

--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12
 * Origin: Star Tech Diamond Bar, CA 909-396-4227 714-257-1175  (1:218/801.0)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 160 of 317
 From : Patrick Duda                        1:218/801       .åò 22 .âã 96 10:52
 To   : Ted Stout
 Subj : Independence Day
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12  91-0018

>I thought the Power PC Mac powerbook was insanely cool in Independence Day!
>Thank God the guy uploading the virus didn.t have to wade through WIN.INI.
>or C:/ RN. VIR. ALIE. INI. or some other arcane DOS command!

  Come on... that if anything was the most incredibly stupid part of the
  movie. We on earth can't even get our networks to work, even when they're
  all running Novell or NT. Then this guys goes and just INTERFACES with
  an alien computer, regardless of the line type and pinout, voltage, and
  doesn't need a password, which is probably not 7bit ASCII, and
  u/ls a virus (do the aliens use ZModem? I don't think so)
  which tells us apparently he also knows all the addresses in memory of the
  programs, and how they work, and could get past their antivirus software,
  assuming they don't have some guy jacked into the system monitoring it
  anyway. Come one.... :)

  Max suk. heh heh.
   "Oh god! Even the aliens use Windows95! And here I am with a MAC!"
                                 ^^^^
                    _The_ choice of intergalactic conquerers everywhere.

---
 * MikeMayl v1.0 * I cut it three times and it's still too short!

--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12
 * Origin: Star Tech Diamond Bar, CA 909-396-4227 714-257-1175  (1:218/801.0)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 161 of 317
 From : Phill Ash                           1:275/160       .pä 21 .âã 96 10:17
 To   : Todd Sullivan
 Subj : Space: Above and Beyond -
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE 1.11+

 TS> What gets me is that B5 is about as dark as S:AAB, but it's still with
 TS> us, while Space got the "boot to the head".

        B5 doesn't try to make us believe that, in the FUTURE, Marines
        won't get haircuts  <G>


From the Office of the DeathMaster General...
... But the war's still going on dear.  And there's no end that I know
---
 * Ôystertags v1.2 *
--- Smile :)
 * Origin: * The Beast's Lair * (804)498-3070 * Va Beach VA * (1:275/160)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 162 of 317
 From : Phill Ash                           1:275/160       .pä 21 .âã 96 10:17
 To   : Todd Sullivan
 Subj : Klingons
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE 1.11+

 PA>         What Honor...?

 TS> If you have to ask, you'll never understand.

        Wow!  That rates right up there with "It's not too loud, you're
        too old"

 PA>         With the exception of Worf, *all* Klingons are depicted as
 PA>         treacherous, treasonous backstabbers who would just as soon

 TS> Not quite.  Every fight is a chance for advancement in all others'
 TS> eyes. Also every encounter has the possiblilty of becoming a fight,
 TS> just as in ancient Greece.

        No.  Every fight is an excuse for a fight... Every refused
        challenge is justified by "honor".  No Klingon, other than Worf
        and Kurn, have even been as good as their word.  Even K'mpec and
        Duras, leaders of the High Council would sooner lie to the
        populus than to have to justify their "honor."

 PA>         The "Honourable Klingon" is a thing of myth...  It's that which
 PA>         Worf struggles to achieve, just as Data struggled to be "Human"
 PA>         and Spock struggled to be "Vulcan".

 TS> Want a historical example?  The Samurai in Japan's Feudal period
 TS> through the Maiji Restoration.  They're just as alien in their thinking
 TS> as Klingons, when it comes right down to it.

        No.  The Bushido dictated "Death Before Dishonor".  The Klingon
        Code is apparently "Don't Get Caught".



From the Office of the DeathMaster General...
... That wizardry's my trade and I was born to wade through gore
---
 * Ôystertags v1.2 *
--- Smile :)
 * Origin: * The Beast's Lair * (804)498-3070 * Va Beach VA * (1:275/160)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 163 of 317
 From : Phill Ash                           1:275/160       .pä 21 .âã 96 10:17
 To   : James Dixon
 Subj : Dune Encyclopaedia
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE 1.11+

 ->                 Seriously... "Dune Encyclopedia" huh?

 JD> It came out around June of 1984... An outstanding work in softcover
 JD> ..................
 JD> written much like a book set within the Dune universe, done within its
 JD> context... I highly recommend it...

        Wouldn't happen to know the ISDN # would ya?
        They don't let me out in daylight very often... <G>


From the Office of the DeathMaster General...
... Winning, it makes losers of us all 'cause the dice roll so indifferently
---
 * Ôystertags v1.2 *
--- Smile :)
 * Origin: * The Beast's Lair * (804)498-3070 * Va Beach VA * (1:275/160)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 164 of 317
 From : Thanatos                            1:275/160       .åò 22 .âã 96 08:18
 To   : Jared Callanan
 Subj : Kindred;The Embraced
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE 1.11+

 JC> ANyone like the show Kindred:The Embraced???

        Transylvania 90210???

        Gimme a break! <G>


From the Office of the DeathMaster General...
... Dreaming about, what could it be.  Summer's embraces had a hold on me
---
 * Ôystertags v1.2 *
--- Smile :)
 * Origin: * The Beast's Lair * (804)498-3070 * Va Beach VA * (1:275/160)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 165 of 317
 From : Phill Ash                           1:275/160       .åò 22 .âã 96 08:18
 To   : Leman Russ
 Subj : Klingons
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE 1.11+

 LR> I agree with your assessment of klingons completely.

        Damned glad to hear it!
        I had to do a follow-up justification, though...
        You might also get a kick from it <G>



From the Office of the DeathMaster General...
---
 þ Ôystertags v1.2 þ Yeah, the longer days ah, the longer nights
--- Smile :)
 * Origin: * The Beast's Lair * (804)498-3070 * Va Beach VA * (1:275/160)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 166 of 317
 From : Keith Stokes                        1:280/429       .åò 22 .âã 96 23:10
 To   : James Walton
 Subj : SF CLUB QUESTIONS
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On 08-11-96, James Walton said over a beer to Bob Klahn:

 JW> My club, PARSEC in Pittsburgh PA, has dues of $10.00 per
 JW> year.  We have some people who pay $1.00 every month.

The Kansas City Science Fiction & Fantasy Society(KaCSFFS) dues are
$15 per year($12 for the second person at the same address<if they
don't require a second mailed newsletter>). That amount of money
does little more than cover printing and mailing of a monthly
newsletter.   KaCSFFS member ship is approaching 100 and we are
currently looking at ways to afford renting a space for the
meetings.


 JW> We have others, like our Starving Artists, who donate a
 JW> piece of their work once a year and we auction off the art.

Sounds cool!


BTW KaCSFFS' 25th anniversary was in July. It is being celebrated
with a combination banquet/meeting/slide show/dance/16 mm movie
show on the 3rd Saturday of next month.

    Keith

--- FMail 1.02
 * Origin: ¨ Diehard's Bar and Grill ¨ Lenexa, KS ¨ (913)438-7286 ¨ (1:280/429)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 167 of 317
 From : Leman Russ                          1:2250/7        .åò 22 .âã 96 04:41
 To   : Roy Stevens
 Subj : Re: JAPANESE SF
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 For REAL laffs try " project A-Ko".

>;[

--- DLG Pro v1.0/DLGMail
 * Origin: Sage's Tower - Amiga - (618) 259-1844 (1:2250/7)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 168 of 317
 From : Leman Russ                          1:2250/7        .åò 22 .âã 96 04:43
 To   : Bill Clements
 Subj : Re: BY FORCE OF ARMS
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 I dunno what this bit about the civil war has to do with SF, but I'd like to
correct something. The civil war was not rreally about slavery, and Lincoln
didn;t "freethe slaves" until the war was in its second or so year.

 And the civil war really didn't eld slavery, the cotton gin made the "cotton
pickin' slaves" economically unfeasible.

 The CW was about the federal government claiming power over the states, andthe
states believing that they had all powers not vested inthe fed gov as spelled
out in the constitution.

That was the real gist of the CW. By the 1860s slavery was a dieing institution
as cotton gins could pick and process cotton faster and more economically than
slaves could.

>:[

--- DLG Pro v1.0/DLGMail
 * Origin: Sage's Tower - Amiga - (618) 259-1844 (1:2250/7)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 169 of 317
 From : Brion Lienhart                      1:213/700.2     .åò 22 .âã 96 08:07
 To   : Owen E. Oulton
 Subj : B5 RENEWED
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On Mon Aug 19, Owen E. Oulton said to Brion Lienhart:

 BL> I think you mean _The Outlaw Josie Wales_, the one where Clint is the
 BL> last of the Red Legs.

 -OEO>Huh?  You must've seen a different The Outlaw Josey Wales than I have
 -OEO>on tape...  In the one I have, Josey (played by Clint) is a
 -OEO>Confederate being pursued *BY* the Redlegs.

Oops, my fault. Which outfit was he in then, Quantrill's Raiders? I'm not a
civil war historian, so I don't really keep track of which guerilla unit was on
which side. I just remember one of the guys wearing the red boots.

 -OEO>However, Pale Rider is indeed the one in which Clint changes cylinders
 -OEO>on cap'n'ball revolver, preparatory to the final climactic shootout.

He does a whole lot more reloading in Josie Wales though.




--- QM v1.31
 * Origin: Ministry of Peace - Carson City, NV (1:213/700.2)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 170 of 317
 From : Frank Swarbrick                     1:104/825       .pä 21 .âã 96 19:32
 To   : Patty Moniz
 Subj : on Sci-Fi Channel
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12  92-0022
On 08-19-96  18:47, shipwrecked and comatose, Patty Moniz said:

 FS> Another show I forgot to mention that I think the Sci-Fi Channel
 FS> should pick up is Space: Above and Beyond.

 PM> Yes!!  I LOVE Space!!  Again, just as I was getting into it, it got
 PM> taken  off.  I just have bad luck with television.

You and me both!  Here's a short list of shows I loved that have been
cancelled in the last few years (most lasting only a season or less!):

VR.5, Under Suspicion, Christy, American Gothic, Due South, Nowhere Man,
Space: Above and Beyond, Forever Knight, and probably a few others I
can't think of off hand.  And these aren't just shows that I simply
liked-- I loved them a lot.  It's so frustrating when you have
different tastes than the general public.  Ah well...

        Frank

... No one can hear when you're Screaming in Digital!
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12
 * Origin: The Bailey Information Exchange BBS, 28.8k v.fc  (1:104/825.0)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 171 of 317
 From : Frank Swarbrick                     1:104/825       .åò 22 .âã 96 12:04
 To   : All
 Subj : V
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12  92-0022
Has anyone been watching V on the Sci-Fi Channel?  Last week they
showed the original miniseries, followed by V: The Final Battle.  Now
they're showing the series.

Anyway, I didn't realize it as it had been a long time since I'd seen
V, but Independance Day *majorly* ripped of this show!  Not that it
didn't rip off a lot of old movies as well, as all the reviews love to
point out, but it is more similar to V than any of these.  Of course
movie reviewers seem to not watch television....  :-)  I suppose you
could go on to say that V also ripped off those same movies, but
hey...

I wouldn't say that V is brilliant, but I quite enjoyed both
mini-series, and the series is fairly good as well.  I wonder if it
would have been better had Kenneth Johnson stayed with it past the
original mini-series.  Alien Nation is better, and I wonder if he
could have brought that quality to the V series.  Does anyone know why
he did not continue with the project?

Oh, and by the by I have to say that I really liked the theme music
for the original mini-series, and the theme for The Final Battle is
absolutely *wonderful*!  Simple, but utterly haunting!  The series
theme has some good parts, but part of it is rather dated.

        Frank

... Heaven is waiting and waiting is Hell.
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12
 * Origin: The Bailey Information Exchange BBS, 28.8k v.fc  (1:104/825.0)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 172 of 317
 From : Bobby Rissler                       1:270/435       .åò 22 .âã 96 02:26
 To   : All
 Subj : Star Trek
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
  Is anyone going to any Star Trek convntions anytime soon.  There is a
convention at Valley Forge convention center on the 24th and the 25th.  Tim Russ
(Tuvok) is going to be there the 24th and William Shatner (Captain Kirk) is
going to there on the 25th.  I'm going to this one and was wondering if anyone
else is.


----
Bobby Rissler
bobby.rissler%270-435@mdtnbbs.com


--- Maximus 3.01
 * Origin: The Good News BBS  Bowmansville, PA (1:270/435)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 173 of 317
 From : Denis Lamy                          1:167/420       .îí 19 .âã 96 07:52
 To   : Ben Noordegraaf
 Subj : favourite books
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
<** Le 16-Aug-96, BEN NOORDEGRAAF disait Å ALL: **>

BN> my favourite science fiction books are
BN>
BN> The dune series by frank herbert
BN>
BN> they are the most awesome novels written ever in the history of the whole

You must be very young to say a thing like that...  :-)

Actually they are really great books. But to say they are the best ever
written, I won't go that far.

2001: A Space Odyssey. by A.C. Clarke is pretty good to. Foundation the serie
by Asimov are not too chabby either. And let's not forget the non-A serie
(well maybe the first two books) by Van Vogt. More recently there are the
books of Willliam Gibson (Neuromancer, etc.) and Dan Simmons (Hyperion, etc.)
or Neal Stephenson (Snow Crash, etc.), etc.. Those are all pretty awesome
books and author.

Au plaisir de vous lire,

Denis Lamy
Trois-Rivieres (Quebec, Canada)
~~~
 * VbReader 3.0 #67 * "Si le soulier te fait, achete le."  - Imelda Marcos
--- FidoPCB v1.5 beta-'e'
 * Origin: Innovatron, St-Boniface, QC (819)535-9072 (1:167/420)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 174 of 317
 From : David Little                        1:106/7315      .åò 22 .âã 96 07:35
 To   : Ted Stout
 Subj : Independence Day
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
-=< Ted Stout used the Jedi Mind Trick on me!>=-

 TS> I thought the Power PC Mac powerbook was insanely cool in
 TS> Independence Day! Thank God the guy uploading the virus didn.t have to
 TS> wade through WIN.INI. or C:/ RN. VIR. ALIE. INI. or some other arcane
 TS> DOS command!

        ...and like many other Mac users, they'll be wasted in the end!!

                                        -=The DoLittle 8-)=-


... "Give 'em opposable thumbs and they're *still* crummy shots."
--- Blue Wave/DOS v2.30 [NR]
 * Origin: The Wizards Realm BBS 1-713-946-7315 1:106/7315 (1:106/7315)

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 Msg  : 175 of 317
 From : Patty Moniz                         1:260/388       .òp 20 .âã 96 16:57
 To   : HENRY TRIPLETT
 Subj : Japanese SF
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE 1.11+
---On 08-19-96  10:20, Henry Triplett screamed about Japanese SF...

 -=> Quoting Jeff Hancock to Patrick Duda <=-

 HT> This tower also shows up in a number of Godzilla-type movies and has
 HT> been  in a large number of the Sailor Moon episodes that I've seen.
 HT> Obviously it's a famous local landmark, at least in Tokyo.  I wonder if
 HT> anyone in  here knows what it's called?

 It's called the Tokyo Tower. ^_^  Seriously.



        Shadowcat
        pmoniz@erc.cat.syr.edu

... Moon..Spiral..(WHACK! Oops, sorry Rei!)HEADACHE! Er, I mean HEARTACHE!

___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20 [NR]
--- GEcho 1.11+ The BEST
 * Origin: Dragon's Cave, South of Texas, NY. 315-963-3389 (1:260/388)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 176 of 317
 From : David Johnston                      1:342/14        .åò 22 .âã 96 00:06
 To   : Todd Sullivan
 Subj : Space: Above and Beyond - reasons for cancellation
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
-> I don't recall too well, but Space was stacked against "60 Minutes"
-> in that tim slot, which is about a death sentence.

I wouldn't go that far, but 60 Minutes has a solid following of news
junkies.

-> What gets me is that B5 is about as dark as S:AAB, but it's still
-> with us, whil Space got the "boot to the head".

I don't agree.  What I liked about SAAB is what many disliked, that it
showed the mental hardships of war.  Despite the pressure that the B5
undergone, they haven't gone through the kind of ordeal inflicted by
something like the Iwo Jima episode (where the characters are stranded
in enemy territory for over six months after abandonment by their
leaders) or the episode where they are captured and Whosis breaks and
records a propaganda statement for the enemy.  B5 is paranoid but
doesn't really have the moral ambiguity of SAAB, where the enemy was no
worse than humanity, and despite the overwhelming power of the enemy, I
wouldn't say that their victories are as hard-fought.

Of course, in the end, what it boils down to, is Babylon 5 is syndicated
and probably has more economical special effects.  Those who denounce
B5's special effects should stop and think whether they really want
better SFX, on a show that only lasts 6 episodes instead of 5 years.

--- PCBoard (R) v15.21/100
 * Origin: Freddy's Place - Edm. AB - 33.6K (403) 413-3460 (1:342/14)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 177 of 317
 From : David Johnston                      1:342/14        .åò 22 .âã 96 00:07
 To   : Josh Hill
 Subj : Re: Independence Day (bel
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
-> But Independence Day was more of the World triumphing as allies. I

I haven't seen it yet, but isn't it more like the United States
defeating a world menace?  What do the other nations do?

--- PCBoard (R) v15.21/100
 * Origin: Freddy's Place - Edm. AB - 33.6K (403) 413-3460 (1:342/14)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 178 of 317
 From : David Johnston                      1:342/14        .åò 22 .âã 96 00:10
 To   : Josh Hill
 Subj : Re: Independence Day (bel
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
-> Independence Day was excellent. I didn't like some of their puns
-> though. Like when Will Smith was getting married his character said
-> "I will." instead of "I do."

That wasn't a pun.  In reality "I will" is the correct response in most,
perhaps all, sects.

--- PCBoard (R) v15.21/100
 * Origin: Freddy's Place - Edm. AB - 33.6K (403) 413-3460 (1:342/14)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 179 of 317
 From : Henry Triplett                      1:106/564       .ÿò 23 .âã 96 12:38
 To   : PATTY MONIZ
 Subj : Japanese SF
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

-=> Quoting Patty Moniz to Henry Triplett <=-

 -=> Quoting Jeff Hancock to Patrick Duda <=-

 HT> This tower also shows up in a number of Godzilla-type movies and has
 HT> been  in a large number of the Sailor Moon episodes that I've seen.
 HT> Obviously it's a famous local landmark, at least in Tokyo.  I wonder if
 HT> anyone in  here knows what it's called?

 PM> It's called the Tokyo Tower. ^_^  Seriously.

Seriously!?!  Well *that's* real imaginative.  <g>  No wonder it's not
famous.  Not a hint of originality.

I mean, suppose it was 'Paris Tower?' 8-)

 PM> ... Moon..Spiral..(WHACK! Oops, sorry Rei!)HEADACHE! Er, I mean
 PM> HEARTACHE!

Swiped!  I know someone in this echo who would appreciate it.

 PM>  ! Origin: Dragon's Cave, South of Texas, NY. 315-963-3389 (1:260/388)

"Texas, NY?"  Git a rope... <g>

Henry

... And then Patty turned into Sailor Moniz!

___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20 [NR]
--- GEcho 1.00
 * Origin: Eat Flaming Death    Houston Texas    713-447-1927 (1:106/564)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 180 of 317
 From : Jeff Hancock                        1:3600/7        .åò 22 .âã 96 20:43
 To   : Michael Harper
 Subj : Japanese SF
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

MH> JH>What say I just send you my list and that way you can pick up
MH> Sold. My address is:

Actually I CRASHmailed the list to you when I sent that message.
Evidently you didn't get it... probably just as well, seeing as how I
had to revise a few things.

MH> JH> I think "kanji" means the written, symbol, form, not spoken.
MH> I think you're right... in any case, as with Russian and Arabic, I
MH>speak just enough of it to get in trouble...

Want some help?  <G>  I've picked up some colorful vocabulary...

MH> Yeah, it's all inflection... Somebody told me about watching SHOGUN
MH>with a Japanese friend and having them laugh hysterically at
MH>Chamberlain's pronunciation; he had the inflections wrong almost

Gah.  I may never learn to speak it.

MH> Yeah, "Moogi" is the Ferengi diminutive of their word for "mother";
MH>so in the episode "Little Green Men", when Rom is howling for Moogi,

I had forgotten about that entirely!  KuSOOOUUUU!

MH>the guys on Trek are major anime nuts; witness the episode "Peak
MH>Performance", with its reference to Project: Lovely Angel...

That the one with the ships named Kei and Yuri?  Everyone seems to know
that one, but the rest seem pretty obscure.

MH> JH> I think they'll be a little busy on their Yamato/Starblazers
MH> JH>adaptation for a while...
MH> God, that's nauseating... hopefully they'll at least watch the
MH>original a few times so they get it right...

I never saw the original or the adaptation...  but I'm sure I'll hear
what they did wrong. <G>

-=-
 * Crazy-J * "A normal person wouldn't steal pituitaries."

--- SLMAIL v3.5C  (#1540)
 * Origin: Robotech  -=-Fansubbed anime available upon request-=- (1:3600/7)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 181 of 317
 From : Frank Glover                        1:2613/477      .óá 24 .âã 96 00:07
 To   : David Johnston
 Subj : Re: Independence Day (bel
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

DJ>  -> Independence Day was excellent. I didn't like some of their puns
DJ>  -> though. Like when Will Smith was getting married his character
DJ>  said
DJ>  -> "I will." instead of "I do."
DJ>
DJ>  That wasn't a pun.  In reality "I will" is the correct response in
DJ>  most,
DJ>  perhaps all, sects.

   One of *my* friends (the groom) said `I will.' A civil ceremony, at that.

   Frank


--- QuickBBS 2.81 GoldBase (Zeta-2.0)
 * Origin: The Matrix Data Bank BBS, Rochester, Ny (1:2613/477)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 182 of 317
 From : Frank Glover                        1:2613/477      .óá 24 .âã 96 00:11
 To   : Phill Ash
 Subj : Re: Dune Encyclopaedia
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

PA>   JD> It came out around June of 1984... An outstanding work in
PA>  softcover
PA>   JD> ..................
PA>   JD> written much like a book set within the Dune universe, done
PA>  within its
PA>   JD> context... I highly recommend it...
PA>
PA>          Wouldn't happen to know the ISDN # would ya?
PA>          They don't let me out in daylight very often... <G>

   I guess not. Don't you mean ISBN? Or did you really want a 128k data
connection after all?

   Frank


--- QuickBBS 2.81 GoldBase (Zeta-2.0)
 * Origin: The Matrix Data Bank BBS, Rochester, Ny (1:2613/477)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 183 of 317
 From : David Johnston                      1:342/14        .óá 24 .âã 96 01:04
 To   : Roy Stevens
 Subj : Sound Supressors
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
-> Ah, but if you really want it silent, just get the guy to step
-> outside his spaceship (this is the SF echo afterall) and shoot him.
-> Vacuum=silence.  BTW, would a gun work in space?  I can't imagine gun
-> powder would work without oxygen.

I believe that modern cartridges include enough oxygen to work and are
air tight of course, so water won't get in.  However, the parts of the
gun would probably freeze up or jam if allowed to cool in space for any
significant time.

--- PCBoard (R) v15.21/100
 * Origin: Freddy's Place - Edm. AB - 33.6K (403) 413-3460 (1:342/14)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 184 of 317
 From : David Johnston                      1:342/14        .óá 24 .âã 96 01:10
 To   : Leman Russ
 Subj : Re: By Force Of Arms
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
-> That was the real gist of the CW. By the 1860s slavery was a dieing
-> institution as cotton gins could pick and process cotton faster and
-> more economically than slaves could.

You think cotton gins pick cotton?  <sigh>  They don't.  In fact the
invention of the cotton gin is what made slavery so profitable in the
first place.  And in the 1860s, there was no mechanical means of picking
cotton.

--- PCBoard (R) v15.21/100
 * Origin: Freddy's Place - Edm. AB - 33.6K (403) 413-3460 (1:342/14)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 185 of 317
 From : Nicolai Shapero                     1:102/524       .ÿò 23 .âã 96 17:37
 To   : Ted Stout
 Subj : Independence Day
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Aug 21 06:58>, Ted Stout (1:270/435) wrote to All:

 TS>I thought the Power PC Mac powerbook was insanely cool in
 TS>Independence Day! Thank God the guy uploading the virus didn.t
 TS>have to wade through WIN.INI. or C:/ RN. VIR. ALIE. INI. or some
 TS>other arcane DOS command!

Of course, since the aliens were using MACs as well, it's clear that they had
infiltrated APPLE years earlier...

(Designing a virus to infect an alien operating system that you NOTHING about?
Give me a break...)

-- Nicolai Shapero, the Mad Russian Sysop of StormGate Aerie

--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 186 of 317
 From : James Dixon                         1:2604/309      .óá 24 .âã 96 14:21
 To   : Phill Ash
 Subj : Dune Encyclopaedia
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

PA> ->                 Seriously... "Dune Encyclopedia" huh?

PA> JD> It came out around June of 1984... An outstanding work in softcover
PA> JD> ..................
PA> JD> written much like a book set within the Dune universe, done within its
PA> JD> context... I highly recommend it...

PA>        Wouldn't happen to know the ISDN # would ya?
PA>        They don't let me out in daylight very often... <G>

Sure, 0-425-06813-7...

Haven't much to do these days what with only a couple conferences left
at this end and nobody wanting anything to do with the totally evil,
dictatorial James T. Dixon...


 * OLXWin 1.00a * Excelsior Class: Space Control Ship/Battleship/Heavy Cruiser


--- WM v3.10/93-0747
 * Origin: Plain Brown Wrapper BBS-Cresskill NJ.(201)569-6685  (1:2604/309)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 187 of 317
 From : Leman Russ                          1:2250/7        .ÿò 23 .âã 96 05:27
 To   : Roy Stevens
 Subj : Re: SOUND SUPRESSORS
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 A gun would work in space if the bullet had oxygen in the shell, so it might
need sealing to make sure the air didn;t leak out.

>:[

--- DLG Pro v1.0/DLGMail
 * Origin: Sage's Tower - Amiga - (618) 259-1844 (1:2250/7)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 188 of 317
 From : Leman Russ                          1:2250/7        .ÿò 23 .âã 96 05:29
 To   : Patrick Duda
 Subj : Re: Ghost in the Shell
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 I admit that  i could tell things were missing from "GitS" but liked it anyway.
i tried to collect the manga but dark horse comics doesn;t have the reliability
of eclipse.

>:[

--- DLG Pro v1.0/DLGMail
 * Origin: Sage's Tower - Amiga - (618) 259-1844 (1:2250/7)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 189 of 317
 From : Mark Holtz                          1:203/1701      .óá 24 .âã 96 17:15
 To   : All
 Subj : Goodbye......
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
(Part 1 of 3)

[Fido. Come here. Come here, Fido. *WHAP* with Sunday Paper. Bad doggie.
Great, PETA is here.

Looks like Fidonet ate my first attempt at posting this. Sigh.]

By the end of August, I will be taken down my BBS and basically disappearing
from fandom. It only seems fit that I should tell you folks why.

I started to realize back in June that fan club meetings were not exciting. I
found that, instead of being excited to attend the meeting, I was dragging my
feet and actualy forcing myself to go to the meetings. Also, in the past
several months, I have not been reading the message bases, or really
maintaining my BBS. And, worst of all, I am no longer watching Star Trek on a
regular basis.

What happened? Mark Holtz, the man who could be considered the niceness and
goodness of fandom. I may not always agree with him or his views, but damnit,
he's a fixture.

Well, lets face it, it is not one thing that has happened, but rather a series
of events that kept building up and building up until the straw that broke the
camel's back.

Consider Star Trek, for instance. I don't approach it with the same type of
excitement that I used to. To clarify things, let me put it in several
levels...

* The "Must Watch It" Level - This is the level where you basically schedule
your life around the show. Video taping does not do. Shows like this are rare.
I can't even name a show that has achieved this level, only two mini-series:
"Roots" and "Shogun". Helpful hint: Advertisers would love this in large
numbers.

* The "FedEx Me A Copy" Level - I can't give it an exact name, but while you
don't schedule your life around it, you do try and watch it at home, and most
likely, tape the show anyways.  And, if you do have to be out, you program the
VCR to tape it. And, should the tape malfunction or the cable goes out, you
have a top ten list of people whom you can beg, borrow, or steal a copy from
within 24 hours. It would not even surprise me if folks in this category got a
C-band satellite system just to catch the pre-feeds and station feeds of one
or two particular shows....  period.

* The "Have VCR, Have Plans" Level - Although this is a minor step downward,
there is a difference. You might be home and watch it, but, if you have
something going on, like class or a date, you have a VCR to tape it. But, if
something does go wrong, there are always repeats.... right?

* The "If I'm Home" level - Another step downward. If you are home, you'll
watch it. If not, you're not worried. So what?

* The "MST3K" level - You watch the show simply to mock it. Power Rangers Zero
are a perfect example.

* The "I don't watch it" level - Obvious.

So, you can agree that it is desirable to have a show at the "FedEx a Copy"
level instead of at the "If I'm Home" level. The higher the level, the more
worthwhile the hour spent watching the show. But, how does a show get to that
level? Well....

* Believable Setting - What if I told you about a show of a battleship that
represented the United Nations that traveled the world's oceans? It would
visit various ports throughout the world, help settle disputes, and such.
Sound familiar? It sounds a lot like..... "Star Trek".

* Believable Characters - Are the characters one dimensional, or are there
variations in their personality and character? Can you identify what the
characters goes through in an episode? And, perhaps, more importantly, would
you invite the character over to dinner? With your parents?

* Believable Stories - While, as science fiction fans, we take some liberties
when it comes to technological development, we are not stupid. To the
contrary, many of us are highly intelligent people. A good story should
enlighten and entertain. However, too many shows nowadays believe that "the
message" is important (and the more politically correct, the better), and to
hell with the story. When that "message" is shoved down our throats, it is
immediately rejected, and the audience is turned off. However, if the message
is kept in the background, and the audience is tricked, they are more
accepting of the message.

Also, the political correctness steak that plagues entertainment must go. In
the real world, there is no "correct" opinion. Both the conservative and
liberal opinion have their basis and are valid, as both sides can cite facts
supporting their sides. A good story, in my opinion, should express both views
without, as I said, shoving the view down our throats. And, if that story
promotes strong discussion after it airs, then it does that job well.

... MacGyver - What's he doing with that thing??
--- Blue Wave/DOS v2.21
 * Origin: Deep Space Franchise (916) 721-1701 (1:203/1701)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 190 of 317
 From : Mark Holtz                          1:203/1701      .óá 24 .âã 96 17:15
 To   : All
 Subj : ....and thanks....
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
(Part 2 of 3)

The show should also push the limits of excellence, challanging our beliefs
without insulting them, pushing higher the quality of stories and acting, and
proving itself worthy of itself, and more importantly, memorable. And, if that
show is memorable, then people will have no problems seeing the show over and
over again in the syndication. As an example, M*A*S*H (6:30p and 10:30p in
Sacramento) and Cheers (6:30p in Sacramento) continue to be played in the
important prime time slots in syndication in Sacramento, the number 21 Neilson
market despite being out of production for years already, while Murphy Brown,
a show still in production, was last seen airing at 10:30 AM and 1:30 PM on
Channel 40. (But, then again, I would not invite Murphy Brown over for
dinner. ;) In addition, I Love Lucy, Leave It To Beaver, and The Andy Griffith
Show continue to be aired on broadcast television, albiet between 11 AM-1 PM,
even though those shows have been out of production for over 30 years. And,
when someone mentions older Science Fiction programming, two of the three top
shows mentions isn't Buck Rogers or Space: $19.99, but rather the Twilight
Zone and The Outer Limits.

And, lets take a look at the Twilight Zone and The Outer Limits. In their
original, black and white versions, both shows have extremely limited budgets.
In comparision with today's "Star Trek: Deep Space Nine/Voyager", these shows
had NO special effects budget, save shower caps, clever use of makeup pens,
and shooting rice. Yet, what makes those shows memerable after all these
years? The storylines, with Harlan Ellison's "Demon With A Glass Hand" being
one very shiny example. However, with today's computer generated effects,
advanced visual effect, advanced makeup techniques, latex foam rubber masks,
and such, one might get the impression that "it's the effects and the
wierdness that counts, and to hell with the storyline. Throw in some
explosions, some awesome battle scenes, and we'll have Instant Ratings.  (tm)"

Well, folks, guess what's present in Babylon Five nowadays, and what is
lacking in Star Trek?

I have become also more and more disillusioned with fandom in general. It used
to be fun. It used to be such a force for good, or at least worth one's
attempts to portray it that way. Fandom is supposed to be inclusive, not
exclusive. And, when groups of fans get together, they have donated quantities
of blood, raised funds for worthy charitys, doing the community some good.....
and having a ton of fun at the same time.

However, as much as fandom can be a force for good, it can also do much wrong.
I have seen fans get so serious about a show that they erect virtual shrines
of various trinkets and collectables. One wonders if their regular lives is so
terrible that they build up petty little empires within the fan organizations,
deciding who is "in" and who is "out", and heaven help you if you attempt to
get things done if you are classified as an "out". I have seen long time
friendships become blood hatreds over items that one, looking from the
outside, would consider absolutely petty and rediculous. And when one wears a
Star Fleet uniform to jury duty to "promote Trek" instead of relying on ones
actions, one just has to wonder. In short, the folks take things in fandom so
seriously that the "fun" aspect is gone.

And, for me, the fun is gone. I spent the past two years trying to relive the
past instead of going forward with my life. It's time to take a break, take
down my BBS, tone down my overall presence, and do something else. I have made
mistakes. I am probably guilty of some of the crimes which I accuse fandom of.
Oh well. It's time to move on. I am taking down my BBS and putting the files
into storage. I will tone down my presence on the Internet to just essential
newsgroups, although I will check my mailbox regularly. But, most importantly,
I will be able to pursue some things which I wanted to pursue, such as
learning to program in C and C post increment. Just because one door closes,
another one opens up. That, my friends, is life.

And, now, some words for several specific people. Just because you are not
mentioned below does not mean any particular friendship or hatred. I've met so
many nice people over the years that I probably just forgot..... and in no
particular order.....

Cindy Hill - Hey, babe! Todd should be thankful for having you as his wife,
and for your dedication to your family. Thanks for your help in bringing
QUANTUMLEAP to FidoNet, even if we hit backbone right when the series
cancellation was announced. Best of luck.

Lawrence Kiefer - Best of luck. We had fun bringing TREK_VOYAGER to life when
the series was still in the planning stages, and it was great discussing
politics over the voice line. I know you enjoy your day job as well, and I
wish you success. Say hi to Audrey for me.

Earl Green - You are a personality. May you find much success in your own trek
away from Fidonet.

Zorch Frezberg - You are an interesting fellow. Best of luck.

Marshall Presnell - Haven't I seen you on a milk carton lately? You owe me a
phone call. I have a couple of decks of cards, sealed, ready for your next
visit. Tell Mary hi!

Russell Rummelt - You have been invaluable in the various Trek parties that
we have organized. Best of luck!

Jason Fesler - Sorry for all the trouble I caused and all the bugs I found. ;)
But, at least, I documented everything. Let's face it, Jas, you are
indespensible.

... Thank you Number One....He's my Number One Dad! - JL Picard
--- Blue Wave/DOS v2.21
 * Origin: Deep Space Franchise (916) 721-1701 (1:203/1701)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 191 of 317
 From : Mark Holtz                          1:203/1701      .óá 24 .âã 96 17:15
 To   : All
 Subj : ....for the fish ;)
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
(Part 3 of 3)

USS Oberon NCC-71820 - This has been one of the finest clubs that I have
belonged to. The good repution that this ship has is well deserved, I only
regret that I was unable to do more for her.

Rob and Kim Lerman, Bruce and Nina Jensen - Thank you for your support.

Jeff Godemann - Sorry for dropping the ball on you. Stay cool in Korea, and
may there be little sabre rattling. I hope that you are to change from a
weather observer to a full-fledged weather forcaster in the near future. It
was my pleasure to turn you into a die hard fan of Babylon Five.

Joe Michael Straczynski - You have created one of the finest series on
television. May other producers look at your series as a foundation for
building better television. I hope that Babylon Five lasts all five years, the
story deserves it.

Mike Brown/Tim Lynch - Best of luck. You two are an indespensible source of
information!

The sites that supported the list of lists - Thank you very much!

Kay Shapiro - Thanks for your help in bringing life to TREK_HUMOR_FILK. I wish
you much success. Unfortunately, for your husband.....

Nicolai Shapiro - I hate to say this, but please climb down from Mount Olympis
and join the rest of us mortals. SFFAN is supposed to be inclusive, and
supposed to encourage Science Fiction fandom, but you make it exclusive by not
allowing the mentioning of companion science fiction echos and science fiction
files.

Debra Roberts and Helen Slater - Go screw yourselves.

And, dear James Dixon. I have waited three years to say this. You keep saying
that only "True Trek fans care about the series." You are a phoney Trek fan.
True Star Trek fans believe in infinite diversity in infinite combinations.
Yet, on various occassions, the tone of your messages is that your view is
correct and other views are wrong. You believe that treknology is the most
important thing in Star Trek. It's not. On many occassions, it has been the
acting and the storylines that won praise for Star Trek in the past, not the
treknology or the special effects. The treknology and special effects just add
to the story.

Your attitude, quite frankly, stinks. I still remember quite clearly when you
forced your way back on the STTNG echo when the regular moderator was in
transit, and how impatient you were in NOT WAITING two weeks while we verified
your story. I still remember when you basically insulted the moderators in the
TREK echo and got yourself kicked off. Marshall Presnell is still waiting for
your apology. And, I still cannot believe your condemnation of Mike Okuda, a
man who works hard to pull off the illusion of a TV show, and adapting
Treknology to fit the whims of a writer.

I strongly suggest that you take some time off, turn off the TV set and
computer, and take up activities off-line. Take some classes at a community
college. Join a bowling league. Do some work at a charity. Join a chess club.
Take up golf. But, do something that is completely different from Star Trek.
You might learn some different perspectives and gain a wider view of life.

Well, folks, that's all I have to say. The past few years have been fun and
memorable. But, as they say, variety is the spice of life. It's time to take a
new path, live new experiences, and gain new perspectives. It's the end, but
the moment has been prepared for. I wish you all the best, and hope to meet
you all in the future.

Signing off,
Mark Holtz

... The Borg assimilated my culture and all I got was this t-shirt!
--- Blue Wave/DOS v2.21
 * Origin: Deep Space Franchise (916) 721-1701 (1:203/1701)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 192 of 317
 From : Stephen Simmons                     1:275/160       .ÿò 23 .âã 96 05:33
 To   : Phill Ash
 Subj : Klingons
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE 1.11+
 ÕÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍµPhill Ash wrote:

PA> The "Honourable Klingon" is a thing of myth...  It's that which
PA> Worf struggles to achieve, just as Data struggled to be "Human"
PA> and Spock struggled to be "Vulcan".

TS> Want a historical example?  The Samurai in Japan's Feudal period
TS> through the Maiji Restoration.  They're just as alien in their thinking
TS> as Klingons, when it comes right down to it.

PA> No.  The Bushido dictated "Death Before Dishonor".  The
PA> Klingon Code is apparently "Don't Get Caught".

    Are we really any different, as a species?  Actually, I
    suspect that the rank-and-file Klingons more or less espouse
    "The Code", just as the masses here more or less follow the
    basic tenets of our society.  It's only the noteworthy
    exceptions who draw the attention of the Federation, and only
    the negative exceptions who draw the attention of Starfleet.
    So, these are the only ones we hear about, just as the human
    villains are the only ones you see on the news.


Blackjack
... Hey! Who added "FORMAT C:" to my AUTOEXEC.BAT file????
___ Blue Wave/DOS v2.30 [NR]
--- Smile :)
 * Origin: * The Beast's Lair * (804)498-3070 * Va Beach VA * (1:275/160)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 193 of 317
 From : Todd Sullivan                       1:202/720.3     .ÿò 23 .âã 96 17:52
 To   : Roy Stevens
 Subj : SOUND SUPRESSORS
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Reports from the Interior indicate that Roy Stevens leaked the following to Owen
E. oulton, re: SOUND SUPRESSORS

 OEO>> fire from a locked breech if you're close enough to your targets for
 OEO>> them t
 OEO>> hear the action cycling, which isn't all that loud.

 RS> Ah, but if you really want it silent, just get the guy to step outside
 RS> his spaceship (this is the SF echo afterall) and shoot him.
 RS> Vacuum=silence.  BTW, would a gun work in space?  I can't imagine gun
 RS> powder would work without oxygen.

If that were so, it wouldn't fire in a _sealed_ _cartridge_.

Most powders contain some form of oxidizer.  Even black power would work as
saltpeter is potassium nitrate (KNO3), which has a lot of oxygen in its chemical
makeup.

Todd Sullivan
Email: todd.sullivan@202-720.mx1.fidonet.org

... "I welcome you and present this place as a gift.  I am called Valen,
     and there is much work ahead of us."

-*- ASTG 1.9

--- Spot 1.3a Unregistered
 * Origin: Todd's Spot in the Continuum (1:202/720.3)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 194 of 317
 From : Ted Stout                           1:270/435       .óá 24 .âã 96 07:31
 To   : Patrick Duda
 Subj : Independence Day
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Of course he interfaced as easily as he did. he wasn't stuck with Micro$ludge's
Windoze's plug and pray limitations!
:)
Ted

--- Maximus 3.01
 * Origin: The Good News BBS  Bowmansville, PA (1:270/435)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 195 of 317
 From : Ted Stout                           1:270/435       .óá 24 .âã 96 12:12
 To   : All
 Subj : Favourite Trek movie of all Time
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
what is your favourite Trek movie of all time? I would like to see some
responses to this question in this area.
I vote for Wrath of Khan.
How 'bout you?
Thanks,
Ted

--- Maximus 3.01
 * Origin: The Good News BBS  Bowmansville, PA (1:270/435)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 196 of 317
 From : Tim Zimmerman                       1:270/435       .óá 24 .âã 96 13:11
 To   : Ted Stout
 Subj : Favourite Trek movie of all Time
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 TS> what is your favourite Trek movie of all time? I would
 TS> like to see some responses to this question in this
 TS> area.
 TS> I vote for Wrath of Khan.
 TS> How 'bout you?
 TS> Thanks,
 TS> Ted
 TS> --- Maximus 3.01
 TS>  * Origin: The Good News BBS  Bowmansville, PA (1:270/435)

  I would have to say "Generations" because it has both the original cast and
the next gen cast in one movie.


--- Maximus 3.01
 * Origin: The Good News BBS  Bowmansville, PA (1:270/435)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 197 of 317
 From : James Walton                        1:129/260       .óá 24 .âã 96 14:15
 To   : Keith Stokes
 Subj : SF CLUB QUESTIONS
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 KS> The Kansas City Science Fiction & Fantasy Society(KaCSFFS)
 KS> dues are $15 per year($12 for the second person at the same
 KS> address<if they don't require a second mailed newsletter>).
 KS> That amount of money does little more than cover printing
 KS> and mailing of a monthly newsletter.   KaCSFFS member ship
 KS> is approaching 100 and we are currently looking at ways to
 KS> afford renting a space for the
 KS> meetings.

PARSEC, the Pittsburgh Area Realtime Scientifiction Enthusiasts Club, charges a
mere $2.00 for any extra persons at an address.  We meet in one of the
Pittsburgh library branches.  That's free as long as we keep the noise down and
clean up afterwards.  (Our meetings tend to be parties with a little business
thrown in.)  The club owns a large copy machine which helps keep the cost of the
newsletters down.  And quite a few of our members donate money to cover various
expenses.

 KS> BTW KaCSFFS' 25th anniversary was in July. It is being
 KS> celebrated with a combination banquet/meeting/slide
 KS> show/dance/16 mm movie show on the 3rd Saturday of next
 KS> month.

If I run into you in L. A., I will congratulate you.

---
 * Origin: Up in James' Attic, (412)-431-2891,  (1:129/260)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 198 of 317
 From : HTom Trites                         1:282/62        .cê 25 .âã 96 00:07
 To   : Nicolai Shapero
 Subj : Independence Day
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 NS> On <Aug 21 06:58>, Ted Stout (1:270/435) wrote to All:

 TS>I thought the Power PC Mac powerbook was insanely cool in
 TS>Independence Day! Thank God the guy uploading the virus didn.t
 TS>have to wade through WIN.INI. or C:/ RN. VIR. ALIE. INI. or some
 TS>other arcane DOS command!

 NS> Of course, since the aliens were using MACs as well,
 NS> it's clear that they had infiltrated APPLE years earlier...

 NS> (Designing a virus to infect an alien operating system
 NS> that you NOTHING about?  Give me a break...)

I kept waiting for the alien running the depot to get a message on
her (his?) screen in some strange script, that would be translated
for us into a subtitle, "Wrong version of MS-DOS".

--- Maximus 3.01
 * Origin: SpareCom: Internet email and Fidonet (1:282/62)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 199 of 317
 From : Roger Fingas                        1:163/215       .óá 24 .âã 96 23:12
 To   : Edwin Hansen
 Subj : Space: Above and Beyond - "cheeriness"
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Well, the mood, the atmosphere of the X-Files is dark - sinister.

--- Maximus 3.01
 * Origin: BitByters BBS, Rockland ON, Can. (613)446-7773 v34, (1:163/215)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 200 of 317
 From : Roger Fingas                        1:163/215       .óá 24 .âã 96 23:13
 To   : Frank Swarbrick
 Subj : Space: Above and Beyond
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Did you ever see the episode with the Chig "Red Baron"?

--- Maximus 3.01
 * Origin: BitByters BBS, Rockland ON, Can. (613)446-7773 v34, (1:163/215)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 201 of 317
 From : Bob Klahn                           1:234/2         .óá 24 .âã 96 10:07
 To   : Bill Clements
 Subj : BY FORCE OF ARMS
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 BC> "Your enemy is never a villain in his own eyes. Keep this in

 ...

 BC>                                       --Lazarus Long

 Nice one, I'd forgotten it.

 One I always liked was, " A man should always be ready to shoot his own
 dog."

 I know that was Heinlein, I think it was LL.

 BC> Posted 17 Aug 96 - Bob Klahn to Mark Jones
 BC>
 BK>> Which doesn't change the fact that the South seceeded, and fought, to
 BK>> protect slavery.
 BC>
 BC> Let's reword this slightly, dispense with the "good north, bad
 BC> south" rhetoric, and look closely at the _BOTTOM_LINE_.
 BC>
 BC> Which doesn't change the fact that the South seceded, and fought, to
 BC> protect _their_investment_in_ slavery.

 Good enough.

 BC> $5,000,000,000,000.00, five billion (1860) U.S. dollars,

 Is this an English billion? Or a typo?

 BC> invested in the tangible personal property known as slaves. Was

 ...

 BC> Of course there would be war. The concept of individual rights
 BC> would be extant however the money for compensation would not,
 BC> and political activists will never give up their cause simply
 BC> for the lack of funding. Thus the only way to liberate

 *Human rights* activists should not. In terms of Dole's acceptance speach
 at the convention, you have to do what is right no matter the cost.

 BC> (euphemism for steal) the aforementioned tangible personal
 BC> property would be ... BY FORCE OF ARMS.

 Liberating a human being from someone holding that person against his will
 is not stealing.

 There was a lot of interest in your msg, but I think we've pushed this far
 enough in this echo. If you get the debate echo I'd be happy to answer it
 further there.

Bob Klahn

... Frisbyterian:  When you die, your soul goes up on the roof!
 * Silver Xpress V4.02B03 RB10275

--- FLAME v1.1
 * Origin: Telnet toltbbs.com or call 313-854-6001, Boardwatch #55 (1:234/2)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 202 of 317
 From : Bob Klahn                           1:234/2         .óá 24 .âã 96 12:16
 To   : Roy Stevens
 Subj : SOUND SUPRESSORS
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 RS> Vacuum=silence.  BTW, would a gun work in space?  I can't imagine gun
 RS> powder would work without oxygen.

 Gun powder has its own oxygen, in the form of an oxidizer.

Bob Klahn

... Cats know how we feel. They don't give a damn, but they know.
 * Silver Xpress V4.02B03 RB10275

--- FLAME v1.1
 * Origin: Telnet toltbbs.com or call 313-854-6001, Boardwatch #55 (1:234/2)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 203 of 317
 From : Bob Klahn                           1:234/2         .óá 24 .âã 96 14:36
 To   : Leman Russ
 Subj : BY FORCE OF ARMS
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 LR>  And the civil war really didn't eld slavery, the cotton gin made the
 LR>  "cotton pickin' slaves" economically unfeasible.


 LR> That was the real gist of the CW. By the 1860s slavery was a dieing
 LR> institution as cotton gins could pick and process cotton faster and
 LR> more economically than slaves could.

 Cotton gins did not pick cotton. Cotton gins processed the cotton, which
 made slavery more profitable. Until that time slavery was dieing, the gin
 revived it.

 And you're right, let's take it to another echo or drop it.

Bob Klahn

... Tomorrow I'll start procrastinating...
 * Silver Xpress V4.02B03 RB10275

--- FLAME v1.1
 * Origin: Telnet toltbbs.com or call 313-854-6001, Boardwatch #55 (1:234/2)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 204 of 317
 From : Bob Klahn                           1:234/2         .óá 24 .âã 96 14:36
 To   : Phill Ash
 Subj : KLINGONS
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 PA>         No.  The Bushido dictated "Death Before Dishonor".  The Klingon
 PA>         Code is apparently "Don't Get Caught".

 The Spartans were also taught "don't get caught."

Bob Klahn

... Veni, vidi, vacuum (I came, I saw, my spacesuit was built by the lowest bid
 * Silver Xpress V4.02B03 RB10275

--- FLAME v1.1
 * Origin: Telnet toltbbs.com or call 313-854-6001, Boardwatch #55 (1:234/2)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 205 of 317
 From : Patrick Duda                        1:218/801       .óá 24 .âã 96 16:33
 To   : Phill Ash
 Subj : Klingons
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12  91-0018

-> Duras, leaders of the High Council would sooner lie to the
-> populus than to have to justify their "honor."

 But you forget Duras is not 'himself'. And if the leader is taking his
people astray, can you take that as thecount of the whole species?

-> No.  The Bushido dictated "Death Before Dishonor".  The Klingon
-> Code is apparently "Don't Get Caught".

  WEll, you also need to remember that klingons 'are people too'. They
don't want to die any more than the others, I would assume. Something I
haven't seen so far is how they bring up their children. Do  they strand
them on a planet like the Kason, or something similiarly harsh?


  There _is_ a marked change in the Klingon attitude, though. I wonder
if it's an unconcious change or if the writers actually are taking them
in that direction.

--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12
 * Origin: Star Tech Diamond Bar, CA 909-396-4227 714-257-1175  (1:218/801.0)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 206 of 317
 From : Patrick Duda                        1:218/801       .óá 24 .âã 96 16:37
 To   : Frank Swarbrick
 Subj : on Sci-Fi Channel
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12  91-0018

-> VR.5, Under Suspicion, Christy, American Gothic, Due South, Nowhere
-> Man, Space: Above and Beyond, Forever Knight, and probably a few
-> others I

 I keep seeing episodes of Forver Knight on USA or SciFi. I wish they'd
let that show die. (well, it does involve a vampire).
 I simply don't like the whole atmosphere of it. It's just not right.
I didn't care for Nowhere Man either. Oh, the first 6 or so were good,
but then it was more like 'paranoia man'. It didn't make sense and it
didn't get anywhere.
 I don't remember VR.5. What's Due South?

--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12
 * Origin: Star Tech Diamond Bar, CA 909-396-4227 714-257-1175  (1:218/801.0)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 207 of 317
 From : Patrick Duda                        1:218/801       .óá 24 .âã 96 16:41
 To   : Frank Swarbrick
 Subj : V
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12  91-0018

-> Has anyone been watching V on the Sci-Fi Channel?  Last week they
-> showed the original miniseries, followed by V: The Final Battle.  Now

 I catched a bit of it. It was on too early in the west coast.

It's been a while, all right. I thought it was cooler than Star Wars
when it first came out, although now it's really cheep FX wise.
 It reminded me of how badly we need a REAL alien invades show. Not this
half-baked stuff like 'The Invaders' or "Dark Skies'. But real honest to
goodness evil aliens vs us action. A series!

 There was a final battle??? That sucks, because then I missed it.

-> original mini-series.  Alien Nation is better, and I wonder if he
-> could have brought that quality to the V series.  Does anyone know
-> why

 Alien nation _is_ better writing wise, although I think V has TONS more
potential for entertrainment. What fun is a saucer getting a flat on
earth? :)

-> for the original mini-series, and the theme for The Final Battle is

 there was a 'final battle' movie? There was a series? Was I asleep? :)

--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12
 * Origin: Star Tech Diamond Bar, CA 909-396-4227 714-257-1175  (1:218/801.0)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 208 of 317
 From : Patrick Duda                        1:218/801       .óá 24 .âã 96 16:45
 To   : Leman Russ
 Subj : Re: Ghost in the Shell
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12  91-0018

-> I admit that  i could tell things were missing from "GitS" but liked
-> it anyway. i tried to collect the manga but dark horse comics
-> doesn;t have the

 Oh, it's nice alright. I simply think the money for a tape is better
spent elsewhere.

 I recently saw "AppleSeed", now that's a REAL HACK. Talk about creative
lisense. At least they did a nice job bringing a lot of parts of the
first book together. I wish they'd make more, but with more blood.
  Now I need to complete my Masmune Shirow (sp?) experience by watching
BlackMajic:M66.

--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12
 * Origin: Star Tech Diamond Bar, CA 909-396-4227 714-257-1175  (1:218/801.0)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 209 of 317
 From : Leman Russ                          1:2250/7        .óá 24 .âã 96 00:51
 To   : All
 Subj : The angry red planet
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 My local cable is running an old SF movie this month, "The angry red planet".
Hee hee. I like campy old Sf movies, andthis is one ofthe better ones.

 A lot of "sci fi" movies mad at the same time as this one fell into a couple
odiferous catagories: They were either "commies surrogates from space" movies
like the blob, , or they were racial-stereotypes from space as in the "They want
our women" movies or they were westerns with human astronauts (read space
cowboys) out to tame the savage aliens.

 Ofcourse there were the Amazon women in space films to.

 But "TARP" was not the typical piece sci-fi drek we got from hollywood in the
late 50's. It was one of the rare "Humans are too savage for us to make contact
with" films. These were rare because it was more palatable for audiences to be
given the "Humans (esp. Americans) e the greatest things in the universe" type
fare. The implication that aliens might find humans to be savage and
uncivillized was not used often as it might offendthe audience.

 So I think "TARP" is worth watching, especially if you like old SF movies that
aren't the usual drek the 50's left us with.

>:[

--- DLG Pro v1.0/DLGMail
 * Origin: Sage's Tower - Amiga - (618) 259-1844 (1:2250/7)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 210 of 317
 From : Leman Russ                          1:2250/7        .óá 24 .âã 96 04:34
 To   : Denis Lamy
 Subj : Re: favourite books
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 If you like "2001" have you ever read "The lost worlds of 2001"? It's great for
2001 fhans and traces the evolution if the story, and goes doewn alternate
storylines too, it's almost like reading an alternate version of the story.

>:[

--- DLG Pro v1.0/DLGMail
 * Origin: Sage's Tower - Amiga - (618) 259-1844 (1:2250/7)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 211 of 317
 From : Leman Russ                          1:2250/7        .óá 24 .âã 96 04:35
 To   : Phill Ash
 Subj : Re: Klingons
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 Glad to hear someones glad to hea from me.

>:[

--- DLG Pro v1.0/DLGMail
 * Origin: Sage's Tower - Amiga - (618) 259-1844 (1:2250/7)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 212 of 317
 From : Scott Royall                        1:106/357       .cê 25 .âã 96 12:38
 To   : Mark Holtz
 Subj : ....for the fish ;)
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Mark,

Answering a msg of <Saturday August 24 1996>, from Mark Holtz to All:

You don't know me.  I am one of those people who post much less than they read.
However, I feel the need to stick my nose in here to offer what I'm sure is
unwanted advice.  To wit, don't blame others for your own burn-out, life doesn't
work that way.  The bulk of your long farewell complained about the current
incarnations of Star Trek and their fan clubs.  Well, I have always found that
the ST clubs take themselves more seriously than I'd like so that's old news to
me.  Yet, ST is a tiny sliver of the SF pie, and it seems that you're letting it
have far too much importance.  We both know that there is much more to SF.

As for your caustic spray at Nicolai Shapero, he's quite capable of answering as
he sees fit.  I have moderated the AD&D echo for a number of years, and I find
your objections to the rules of SFFAN to be real uninformed.  Moderating an echo
that is part of a broader genre, be it SF or RPGs, is complicated by the
tendency of other topics to take over the echo altogether.  SFFAN is unique in
that it attempts to offer the very variety you hunger for.  There are so many
other SF-related echos of narrower focus that allowing ads in SFFAN would
quickly overwhelm it.  No thanks!  That's why there is an ECHOLIST echo.

I am severely disabled (so they say), and spend my days in from of one keyboard
or another.  Still, there is tremendous variety in what I actually do.  I may be
shoving torpedos up russian butts one minute (sorry, Nicolai :)), and doing work
for Shell Oil the next.  I think that shutting off your BBS is just trading one
extreme for another.  True variety is a matter of balance.  I know my BBS could
tend to itself for a while, and I bet yours could too.

Scott

sroyal@accesscomm.net
royall@shellus.com
FAX: 713-556-5464

--- GoldED/2 2.50+
 * Origin:  (1:106/357)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 213 of 317
 From : Roelof Otten                        2:282/214       .óá 24 .âã 96 14:22
 To   : Roy Stevens
 Subj : BY FORCE OF ARMS
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Hello Roy!

Thursday August 15 1996, Roy Stevens writes to David Johnston:

 RS> So what do ya think of Babylon 5's government?  Currently it's an
 RS> out-and-out military dictatorship. What Sheridan says is law.

Of course it is, B5 is a military outpost, with all consequenes of that.

 RS> Who out there think B5 ought to have immediate democratic elections?

There goes the army.


Roelof

--- GED/2 2.50+/FMail1.02+
 * Origin: The Cheesemaker's Home (2:282/214)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 214 of 317
 From : Ted Stout                           1:270/435       .cê 25 .âã 96 08:57
 To   : Nicolai Shapero
 Subj : Independence Day
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
I like your sign off line about the mad Russian sysop...:)

--- Maximus 3.01
 * Origin: The Good News BBS  Bowmansville, PA (1:270/435)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 215 of 317
 From : James Walton                        1:129/260       .cê 25 .âã 96 11:00
 To   : Frank Glover
 Subj : Re: Dune Encyclopaedia
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 > PA>          Wouldn't happen to know the ISDN # would ya?
 > PA>          They don't let me out in daylight very often...
 >
 >    I guess not. Don't you mean ISBN? Or did you really want
 > a 128k data  connection after all?


Some of us like to read our books as quickly as possible.

--- Opus-CBCS 1.73a
 * Origin: ConFluence '97:  Virtual Bridges (1:129/260.0)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 216 of 317
 From : James Walton                        1:129/260       .cê 25 .âã 96 11:01
 To   : Leman Russ
 Subj : Re: Ghost in the Shell
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 >  I admit that  i could tell things were missing from "GitS"
 > but liked it anyway. i tried to collect the manga but dark
 > horse comics doesn;t have the reliability of eclipse.
 > >:[

The manga for Ghost in the Shell are collected in one volume at $24.95.


--- Opus-CBCS 1.73a
 * Origin: ConFluence '97:  Virtual Bridges (1:129/260.0)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 217 of 317
 From : Peter McNeill                       1:244/116       .ÿò 23 .âã 96 17:38
 To   : Michael Harper
 Subj : Sound supressors
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10452
Hello Michael!

Saturday August 17 1996 07:42, Michael Harper wrote to James Walton:


 JW>> Sound supressors (NOT silencers: that is a misnomer) have been
 JW>> around since the 1890's.  And it is VERY easy to make a single
 JW>> use sound supressor.  They are useful for close range work only
 JW>> since they take a lot of velocity away from the bullet.

 MH>  My point, though, is that a suppressor only works properly on an
 MH>  automatic; stick one on a revolver and you still get noise, just not
 MH> as big. The escaping gas at the cylinder is still very much audible.

Only if you use low velocity sub-sonic rounds. A silencer by itself using high
velocity rounds won't do anything about the sound since it can't slow down hte
round enough to stop it breaking the sound barrier unless your using a one
shot supressor.... it's biggest function is to disperse the muzzle flash
combined with low velocity rounds that make it so effective which is why .22
make such a good silenced weapon.

... I'd be a fundamentalist - if I could just stop laughing..
--- GoldED 2.50+
 * Origin: If you want my address, it's #1 at the end of the bar. (1:244/116)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 218 of 317
 From : Jeff Hancock                        1:3600/7        .óá 24 .âã 96 20:48
 To   : Frank Glover
 Subj : but about models...
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

FG>JH>  Then there's the whole matter of ... "presence", that good
FG>JH>actors can portray, the subtle nuances which transcend the
FG>   One could also have an extension of a computer graphic technology
FG>that exists today. A human wearing motion and position sensors that a
FG>computer generated counterpart `follows,' even in real time.

Actually I was thinking of subtle facial expressions as well as poise
and style of movement.  Not that that also can't be emulated using
lasers, radar, or something similiar to "read" the face and emulate it.

FG>voice and source of motion.) This way, computer generated characters
FG>can have the natural movements of a real person, but that person
FG>needn't *look* like the character.

Would that extend to facial expressions if the computer was reading the
tensing of the muscles involved and simulated that effect on the new
face?  Or would it be a more complex form of realtime morphing to
translate one movement into another?

It still seems problematical.  Imagine your average actor being scanned
and raising his eyebrow, but it's computer-translated onto an image of
Spock.  Do you suppose it would carry the same "feel"?

(never mind one could simply re-use existing footage, that's not the
argument I'm trying to make ;)
-=-
 * Crazy-J * For every action,there is an equal and opposite criticism

--- SLMAIL v3.5C  (#1540)
 * Origin: Robotech  -=-Fansubbed anime available upon request-=- (1:3600/7)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 219 of 317
 From : Jeff Hancock                        1:3600/7        .óá 24 .âã 96 20:52
 To   : Roy Stevens
 Subj : JAPANESE SF
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

RS>If anyone is looking for a good laugh I heartily recommend "Ranma
RS>1/2" or "Dragonhalf"

Opinion wholeheartedly seconded.  I would also suggest "All Purpose
Cultural Cat Girl Nuku Nuku" and probably any of the Lupin III tapes.
(The last commercial one I saw was Mystery of Mamo... and now I know
what would happen if the Brain ever got rid of Pinky!  <G>)

-=-
 * Crazy-J * Sure, I'm broad-minded.  I hardly think of anything else.

--- SLMAIL v3.5C  (#1540)
 * Origin: Robotech  -=-Fansubbed anime available upon request-=- (1:3600/7)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 220 of 317
 From : Jeff Hancock                        1:3600/7        .óá 24 .âã 96 21:06
 To   : Brion Lienhart
 Subj : Japanese SF
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

BL> -JH>Heh heh heh.  The "worst", eh?  This "Ducktales" must be really
BL>I'm sure Patrick has never seen the worst anime. I for one happen to

Thread alert!  Thread alert!

Okay, what IS the worst anime?  Separate categories for dubbed, hacked
(when they're not the same), and original.

Dubbed... Speed Racer.
Hacked... Clash of the Bionoids.  Or maybe G-Force/Battle of the Planets.
Original...ummmm... Gosh, I dunno.  I'd say Dragon Knight, just because
it's my least favorite, but I'm sure there has to be much worse out
there.  Well, I might say Urusei Yatsura, but that's not fair either.
<shrug>  I've stayed away from anything that looked terrible. ;)

BL>like Ducktales. It's a disney cartoon, for one thing, which means

Which is enough reason to hate it!  <g>  Yeah, yeah, I know, I'm biased
because of their legal department and "Gotta take over the world and
hyper-marketize everything we can" attitude.  I shouldn't blame the
creators and storytellers, except maybe for continuing to work for such
an evil, evil enterprise. ;)

BL>uncle, Scrooge McDuck and Donald's three "nephews" Huey, Looey, and
BL>Dewey. How realistic do you want it to be? The stories are about par

<g>  Depends on what you mean.  You can be real-world realistic and
still tell a lousy story, and be completely unrealistic and still tell a
terrific story.  I'm not sure what level of "realistic" Patrick means,
it could just be over SM telling a long story in pieces rather than just
individual stories with no continuity.

Hey.  That's it.  That's the Babylon 5 - Sailor Moon connection.
Arc stories.  <slapping forehead>  No WONDER such wildly disparate shows
appeal to some of the same people.

BL>p.s. I saw your other message, Gargoyles is pretty good. Another good

I've heard some nice things about it, just never got around to checking
it out.  Yeah, I know, several TNG actors are doing the voices.

BL>one is Darkwing Duck, about a Duck Defender of the Night (Batman

I've seen a number of taglines from that.  Seems funny.

BL>funny animals with super powers. No more silly than The Tick, for

SPOOOOOON!

Did they ever get around to showing new episodes?  I quit watching after
a while... been months now, I think.
-=-
 * Crazy-J * We must all make sacrifices,BRION. You may be next.

--- SLMAIL v3.5C  (#1540)
 * Origin: Robotech  -=-Fansubbed anime available upon request-=- (1:3600/7)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 221 of 317
 From : Jeff Hancock                        1:3600/7        .óá 24 .âã 96 21:18
 To   : Henry Triplett
 Subj : Japanese SF
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

HT>This tower also shows up in a number of Godzilla-type movies and has
HT>been in a large number of the Sailor Moon episodes that I've seen.
HT>Obviously it's a famous local landmark, at least in Tokyo.  I wonder
HT>if anyone in here knows what it's called?

Apparently it's just called the Tokyo Tower.  <shrug>

I just remembered, there was something about it in the liner notes for
the first volume of Urusei Yatsura.  There are so many cultural jokes
and puns that they have to have notes explaining all of them, and it
says that "Tokyo Tower is to Tokyo roughly what the Eiffel Tower is to
Paris (except it is only half as big)."

While we're at it, another famous landmark is Nijubashi, meaning
"double bridge", one of the bridges to the Imperial Palace.

Here's a B5 joke for you, was just looking over the liner notes again
for the heck of it (to see if I recognize anything better now ;), and it
says that in Japan, 4 is an unlucky number, because it has two different
pronunciations -- "yon" and "shi", where the latter "shi" also happens
to be a pronunciation for "death".  Obviously the Japanese were not
involved in constructing Babylon 4!  <g>

-=-
 * Crazy-J * "Fire, Mr. Worf!"  <Worf picks up extinguisher>

--- SLMAIL v3.5C  (#1540)
 * Origin: Robotech  -=-Fansubbed anime available upon request-=- (1:3600/7)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 222 of 317
 From : Chris Cobb                          1:3600/7        .cê 25 .âã 96 01:29
 To   : All
 Subj : Battle Angel!
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 I recently have gotten into Anime and I saw a movie called Battle Angel in
subtitled version. The tape contatined 2 parts, I was just wondering if ther
was anymore to it besides that?

-=-
 * OLX 2.2 * Dog for sale: Eats anything and is fond of children.

--- SLMAIL v3.5C  (#1540)
 * Origin: Robotech  -=-Fansubbed anime available upon request-=- (1:3600/7)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 223 of 317
 From : Todd Sullivan                       1:202/720.3     .óá 24 .âã 96 17:31
 To   : Phill Ash
 Subj : Space: Above and Beyond -
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Reports from the Interior indicate that Phill Ash leaked the following to me,
re: Space: Above and Beyond -

 TS>> What gets me is that B5 is about as dark as S:AAB, but it's still with
 TS>> us, while Space got the "boot to the head".

 PA>         B5 doesn't try to make us believe that, in the FUTURE, Marines
 PA>         won't get haircuts  <G>

As long as it fits under the helmet, nobody says anything.

Todd Sullivan
Email: todd.sullivan@202-720.mx1.fidonet.org

... "The sword of justice has no scabbard." --Joseph de Maistre

-*- ASTG 1.9

--- Spot 1.3a Unregistered
 * Origin: Todd's Spot in the Continuum (1:202/720.3)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 224 of 317
 From : Todd Sullivan                       1:202/720.3     .óá 24 .âã 96 17:33
 To   : Phill Ash
 Subj : Klingons
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Reports from the Interior indicate that Phill Ash leaked the following to me,
re: Klingons

 PA>>         The "Honourable Klingon" is a thing of myth...  It's that which
 PA>>         Worf struggles to achieve, just as Data struggled to be "Human"
 PA>>         and Spock struggled to be "Vulcan".

 TS>> Want a historical example?  The Samurai in Japan's Feudal period
 TS>> through the Maiji Restoration.  They're just as alien in their thinking
 TS>> as Klingons, when it comes right down to it.

 PA>         No.  The Bushido dictated "Death Before Dishonor".  The Klingon
 PA>         Code is apparently "Don't Get Caught".


Fine.  Believe what you like, and accord me the same privilege.

Todd Sullivan
Email: todd.sullivan@202-720.mx1.fidonet.org

... "Rose tints my world, keeps me safe from my trouble and pain."

-*- ASTG 1.9

--- Spot 1.3a Unregistered
 * Origin: Todd's Spot in the Continuum (1:202/720.3)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 225 of 317
 From : Stephen Simmons                     1:275/160       .cê 25 .âã 96 18:39
 To   : Ted Stout
 Subj : Favourite Trek movie of a
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE 1.11+
 ÕÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍµTed Stout wrote:

TS>what is your favourite Trek movie of all time? I would like to see
TS>some responses to this question in this area.
TS>I vote for Wrath of Khan.
TS>How 'bout you?
TS>Thanks,
TS>Ted

    Tough call, I have to pick between "Wrath of Khan" and
    "Undiscovered Country".  The choice boils down to what you
    like about Trek in the first place.  For good old Kirk action
    and ingenuity, "Khan" wins hands down.  For advancing the
    ideals of StarFleet, and Roddenberry's original stated ideals
    in creating the show, the call has to go to #6.  Personally,
    I don't think any of the others come even close to either of
    these two, though.  That's My two cents.
    -- Steve.

Blackjack - Have Pun, Will Travel
... Beam me up QUICK, Scotty! It ATE my phaser!
___ Blue Wave/DOS v2.30 [NR]
--- Smile :)
 * Origin: * The Beast's Lair * (804)498-3070 * Va Beach VA * (1:275/160)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 226 of 317
 From : Mark Jones                          1:105/302.47    .óá 24 .âã 96 23:33
 To   : Nicolai Shapero
 Subj : By Force Of Arms
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On (17 Aug 96) Nicolai Shapero wrote to Mark Jones...

 NS> "And the whip, and the rope, being the weapons of choice for
 NS> cowards, bigots, and slaveholders. Of course, the North didn't do
 NS> a thorough enough job as it turns out, based on the South's
 NS> behavior FOLLOWING the Reconstruction period. Perhaps they should
 NS> have just burned all structures to the ground, and let the South
 NS> start over from the caves...where the slaveholders obviously
 NS> belonged."

    I notice you put quote marks around this.  *Is* it a quote from
someone somewhere?  I've never seen it before.

 NS> Now, how did THAT sound? Get your blood up just a trifle, I'd
 NS> wager, if you're from the South. Just as referring to the North
 NS> as tyrannical tends to get MY blood up just a trifle. In the
 NS> interest of NEITHER of us losing our tempers, perhaps the subject
 NS> should be dropped altogether? Lest this humble (?) individual
 NS> exercise some of HIS "tyrannical powers"...

   Given the lag time for my messages these days (I'm calling long
distance to my point now, so I don't call often), I'm not likely to
get into *any* involved discussions on this topic.


--- PPoint 1.78
 * Origin: Folcroft Sanitarium (hsmith@cure.com) (1:105/302.47)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 227 of 317
 From : Mark Jones                          1:105/302.47    .óá 24 .âã 96 23:41
 To   : Todd Sullivan
 Subj : Sound supressors
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On (13 Aug 96) Todd Sullivan wrote to Owen E. Oulton...

 TS> Another bit of info on that (from "CArdinal of the Kremlin", Tom
 TS> Clancy) is that you basically have to have a single-shot weapon of a
 TS> small caliber for the best suppression.  Why?  A cycling auto makes
 TS> noise.

   I dunno.  I'm told that a silenced and suppressed 10-22 rifle is so
thoroughly muffled that all you hear is the click-click-click of the
receiver cycling.
   .22 caliber ammo doesn't do well against any sort of armor--but
nearly silent automatics using .22 caliber bullets will do a right
treat on your would-be corpse if he's not expecting trouble.
--- PPoint 1.78
 * Origin: Folcroft Sanitarium (hsmith@cure.com) (1:105/302.47)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 228 of 317
 From : Mark Jones                          1:105/302.47    .óá 24 .âã 96 23:51
 To   : Jeff Hancock
 Subj : CGI TREK (GLOAT!)
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On (17 Aug 96) Jeff Hancock wrote to Mark Jones...

   I seem to recall making the claim in this echo that I expected to
see new *original* Trek episodes within ten years, using CGI
techniques to manipulate digitized versions of the characters as they
looked in the 60's.

   I quote from this week's (Aug 24-30, 1996) TV GUIDE, p. 29:

   "They'll be beaming up some familiar faces when Deep Space Nine and
Voyager celebrate 30 years of Star Trek.  Through the use of 'Gump'
technology, DS9 is now shooting an episode (scheduled to air the week
of November 4) that will put Captain Sisko and his crew together with
Kirk and Spock as they appeared in 1967's much-loved "The Trouble with
Tribbles" episode."

   If this works out well--and I have little doubt that it will--those
new original-series episodes become even *more* likely.

   [And by the way, given what we can do *now* with computer graphics,
the video images of President Clark discussing his assassination of
his successor, President Santiago, in Babylon 5 would hold no import.
The government would denounce them as lies--and probably would be
believed by most people.]


--- PPoint 1.78
 * Origin: Folcroft Sanitarium (hsmith@cure.com) (1:105/302.47)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 229 of 317
 From : Mark Jones                          1:105/302.47    .cê 25 .âã 96 00:02
 To   : Bob Klahn
 Subj : BY FORCE OF ARMS
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On (20 Aug 96) Bob Klahn wrote to Kevin Ahearn...

 RS>> So what do ya think of Babylon 5's government? Currently it's an
 RS>> out-and-out military dictatorship. What Sheridan says is law.
 RS>> Who out there think B5 ought to have immediate democratic
 RS>> elections?

 BK> Babylon 5 was a government installation, under military
 BK> authority, to begin with. It is now in rebellion against the
 BK> government, a military installation in the middle of a war. I
 BK> doubt elections are in the offing.

   We also don't know that "Sheridan's word is law."  He may well be
adhering to the UCMJ (Uniform Code of Military Justice) or its
equivalent, and/or any other operational guidelines issued *before*
the government back on earth went fascist.
   And in any case, as you said, B5 is a government installation.
That's why the supreme cheese there is a *military* officer....


--- PPoint 1.78
 * Origin: Folcroft Sanitarium (hsmith@cure.com) (1:105/302.47)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 230 of 317
 From : Mark Jones                          1:105/302.47    .cê 25 .âã 96 00:11
 To   : Phill Ash
 Subj : Klingons
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On (21 Aug 96) Phill Ash wrote to Todd Sullivan...

 PA> No. Every fight is an excuse for a fight... Every refused
 PA> challenge is justified by "honor". No Klingon, other than Worf
 PA> and Kurn, have even been as good as their word. Even K'mpec and
 PA> Duras, leaders of the High Council would sooner lie to the
 PA> populus than to have to justify their "honor."

"Honor" (like "Democracy" or "Freedom") can be used to justify a lot
of sins.  It is also possible for men of good conscience to look at
the same situation and come to very different conclusions as to what
Honor requires them to do.

...and the Federation lied to the Romulans about developing an
improved cloaking device ("Pegasus").

Picard and company have all sworn to die rather than violate the Prime
Directive...except when its absolutely convenient.

Dr. Crusher, noble to the end, has absolutely *no* moral compunctions
about using mind and memory-altering technology on aliens whenever it
is convenient.

Obviously, all Starfleet personnel are lying, dishonorable scum.

 TS> Want a historical example? The Samurai in Japan's Feudal period
 TS> through the Maiji Restoration. They're just as alien in their
 TS> thinking as Klingons, when it comes right down to it.
 PA>
 PA> No. The Bushido dictated "Death Before Dishonor". The Klingon
 PA> Code is apparently "Don't Get Caught".

Yeah.  Right.  The samurai were as good as everyone else at playing
politics--and manipulating events, lying to their enemies
(even if the enemy was your alleged ally or master), stabbing one
another in the back (WHO, exactly, do you think was hiring the
ninja--the peasants?) and generally acting like rulers throughout
time and space.  Including the "If I'm the only one still alive,
nobody can dispute my version of the story" technique.

Keep in mind, also, that the Klingons typically are called upon by the
script to provide the VILLAINS of the story.  If the Klingon in
question wasn't causing problems, he wouldn't be getting screen time,
now would he?

"Most of the criminals in this neighborhood are black, therefore all
blacks are criminals...." seems to be the logic behind your opinion.




--- PPoint 1.78
 * Origin: Folcroft Sanitarium (hsmith@cure.com) (1:105/302.47)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 231 of 317
 From : Patrick Duda                        1:218/801       .îí 26 .âã 96 00:12
 To   : Bob Klahn
 Subj : BY FORCE OF ARMS
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12  91-0018

> One I always liked was, " A man should always be ready to shoot his own
> dog."

> I know that was Heinlein, I think it was LL.

  Why?
---
 * MikeMayl v1.0 * I'm sorry, were the voices in my head bothering you?

--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12
 * Origin: Star Tech Diamond Bar, CA 909-396-4227 714-257-1175  (1:218/801.0)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 232 of 317
 From : Patrick Duda                        1:218/801       .îí 26 .âã 96 00:12
 To   : Ted Stout
 Subj : Favourite Trek movie of a
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12  91-0018

>what is your favourite Trek movie of all time? I would like to see some


  My vote is WOK. (st2). Why? Simply it is the movie which I enjoyed the
  most, and have continued to enjoy whenever I see it.
  1) It has LOTS OF SPACE BATTLES! YES ! Boom... blam! :)
  2) It shows you the inner side of starfleet for the first time, and
  how the crew spends their real lives away from the ship (that is,
  kirk's apartment and stuff).
  3) Ricardo Montelban is cool.
  4) You actually never quite knew what was going to happen.

   As for my vote for best movie as far as 'real' trek goes, it's the
   first one. No other movie caprtued the essence that was/is trek. The
   others seemed more like 'toy selling' movies. They didn't get anywhere.
   (yes, even by beloved st2)

  The WORST trek movie had to be #4. Okay, i'm still waiting, somebody tell
  me "What the heck was that all about???". It's like they had a contract
  with SanFrancisco or somethign to do a movie. It sucked. If even a
  crappy bird of prey could time travel the universe would be jello by
  now.

   I give an honorable mention to ST6. It went back to the respectable
   'trek' with interesting storylines, and almost makes it as a real
   storyline IMO, although it still kinda never gets anywhere (you don't
   talk about it afterwards).

  I don't count the nextgen movies with this. I hear STNG M#2 is a doosie.
  I hope it kicks WOK out of the top seat. Boom! BlasT!
---
 * MikeMayl v1.0 * Press any key to continue or any other key to quit

--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12
 * Origin: Star Tech Diamond Bar, CA 909-396-4227 714-257-1175  (1:218/801.0)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 233 of 317
 From : Josh Hill                           1:388/9         .cê 25 .âã 96 19:44
 To   : David Johnston
 Subj : Re: Independence Day (bel
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Well the aliens are all over the world. The US finds out how to defeat
them thanks to Jeff Goldblum and the others. They then radio the rest
of the world and the entire world unites in a gigantic counter strike
agains the alien raiders.

--- TriToss (tm) Professional 10.0 - #184
 * Origin: By Appointment Only, 817-756-1032, Waco TX (1:388/9.0)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 234 of 317
 From : Josh Hill                           1:388/9         .cê 25 .âã 96 19:45
 To   : David Johnston
 Subj : Re: Independence Day (bel
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Well "I do" is more common I think.
Plus there were more puns in there besides that.

--- TriToss (tm) Professional 10.0 - #184
 * Origin: By Appointment Only, 817-756-1032, Waco TX (1:388/9.0)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 235 of 317
 From : Bob Klahn                           1:234/2         .cê 25 .âã 96 15:40
 To   : Nicolai Shapero
 Subj : INDEPENDENCE DAY
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 NS> (Designing a virus to infect an alien operating system that you NOTHING
 NS> about? Give me a break...)

 My thought exactly. As in the virus (viri?) in STTNG also.

Bob Klahn

... ...I am Pentium of Borg: Prepare to be approximated...
 * Silver Xpress V4.02B03 RB10275

--- FLAME v1.1
 * Origin: Telnet toltbbs.com or call 313-854-6001, Boardwatch #55 (1:234/2)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 236 of 317
 From : Michel Fortin                       1:167/150       .óá 24 .âã 96 15:50
 To   : Patrick Duda
 Subj : Independence Day
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
     Transmitter ON...
     Adjusting frequencies to match those of Patrick Duda...
     And those of Ted Stout...
     Adjusting Time/Space Continuum Disruptor to... 22 Aug 96

     Dear Patrick,

PD>  Come on... that if anything was the most incredibly stupid part of the
PD>  movie. We on earth can't even get our networks to work, even when
PD>  they're all running Novell or NT. Then this guys goes and just
PD>  INTERFACES with an alien computer, regardless of the line type and
PD>  pinout, voltage, and doesn't need a password, which is probably not
PD>  7bit ASCII, and u/ls a virus (do the aliens use ZModem? I don't think

     Don't you see? That was the alien's weakness: they tought of
everything but when they came to earth they used Macs as onboard
computers. Both had OS7.x something. Ounce you know that the rest is a
piece of cake...

                                             Michel

P.S. Moral of the story: Never use Macs with an invasion team.

... Strike any user to continue.
---  Xenolink 1.981,  XQwk 1.6  [REG 10068]
 * Origin: Le Club Amiga Rive-Sud(CARS), Montreal,PQ(514)335-4076 (1:167/150)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 237 of 317
 From : Ken Mayes                           1:393/7         .îí 26 .âã 96 07:26
 To   : Jeff Hancock
 Subj : Re: but about models...
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On Sat 24-Aug-1996  8:48p, Jeff Hancock said to Frank Glover:

JH> Would that extend to facial expressions if the computer was reading the
JH> tensing of the muscles involved and simulated that effect on the new
JH> face?  Or would it be a more complex form of realtime morphing to
JH> translate one movement into another?

JH> It still seems problematical.  Imagine your average actor being scanned
JH> and raising his eyebrow, but it's computer-translated onto an image of
JH> Spock.  Do you suppose it would carry the same "feel"?

JH> (never mind one could simply re-use existing footage, that's not the
JH> argument I'm trying to make ;)


        According to TV Guide Deep Space Nine is going to be doing an episode
this season combining original footage from Trouble With Tribbles and placing
Sisko and a few other DS9 regulars in the bar scene with Kirk and Spock. I've
heard that both Shatner and Nimoy were a little irked by it, but it should still
be interesting to see how it works out.


--- CNet/3
 * Origin: The Bard's Tavern Denton, TX (817)243-5110 USR 28.8   (1:393/7)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 238 of 317
 From : Raanan Wald                         2:403/650       .óá 17 .âã 96 19:43
 To   : Frank Swarbrick
 Subj : Dune movie
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: FastEcho 1.45 612345
The film Dune is based on a book written by Frank Herbert. It is a great book,
and if u have the time- read it.
The film was directed by David L. , but the book is much better.
There are also computer games based on Dune, much fun to play.

... I know a good tagline when I steal one.
---
 * Origin: Loan Shark, 9318789*4 þ Running Telegard 3 (2:403/650)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 239 of 317
 From : Bob Klahn                           1:234/2         .îí 26 .âã 96 16:28
 To   : Ted Stout
 Subj : FAVOURITE TREK MOVIE
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 TS> what is your favourite Trek movie of all time? I would like to see some
 TS> responses to this question in this area.
 TS> I vote for Wrath of Khan.
 TS> How 'bout you?

 The whales win, hands, or flukes, down.

 This is not to be confused with actually liking any of the ST movies.

BOB KLAHN   bob.klahn@toltbbs.com

... Here's to a long plague or a bloody war.... British Army toast
 * Silver Xpress V4.3P RB10275

--- FLAME v1.1
 * Origin: Telnet toltbbs.com or call 313-854-6001, Boardwatch #55 (1:234/2)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 240 of 317
 From : Frank Glover                        1:2613/477      .îí 26 .âã 96 22:24
 To   : Stephen Simmons
 Subj : Re: Klingons
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

SS>  PA> No.  The Bushido dictated "Death Before Dishonor".  The
SS>  PA> Klingon Code is apparently "Don't Get Caught".
SS>
SS>      Are we really any different, as a species?  Actually, I
SS>      suspect that the rank-and-file Klingons more or less espouse
SS>      "The Code", just as the masses here more or less follow the
SS>      basic tenets of our society.  It's only the noteworthy

   Maybe not too different. I observed long ago (from the barroom brawl in the
Tribble episode, and Kirk and Kor arguing with the Organian, up to the Trek
Universe as it is now) that judging by our respective histories, the main
difference is that Earthers *like* to fight, and Klingons *love* to fight.

   Frank


--- QuickBBS 2.81 GoldBase
 * Origin: The Matrix Data Bank BBS, Rochester, Ny (1:2613/477)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 241 of 317
 From : Frank Glover                        1:2613/477      .îí 26 .âã 96 22:41
 To   : Patrick Duda
 Subj : Re: Favourite Trek movie of a
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

PD>  >what is your favourite Trek movie of all time? I would like to see
PD>  some
PD>
PD>
PD>    My vote is WOK. (st2). Why? Simply it is the movie which I enjoyed
PD>  the
PD>    most, and have continued to enjoy whenever I see it.
PD>    1) It has LOTS OF SPACE BATTLES! YES ! Boom... blam! :)
PD>    2) It shows you the inner side of starfleet for the first time, and
PD>    how the crew spends their real lives away from the ship (that is,
PD>    kirk's apartment and stuff).
PD>    3) Ricardo Montelban is cool.
PD>    4) You actually never quite knew what was going to happen.

   Have to agree on virtually all of that. (Of course it was leaked that Spock
would die, and even then, they threw us off with what turned out to be a
simulated battle ["Is *that* it??" I thought, when he went down, expecting
something more heroic.], and forgot the rumors until he left the bridge
whiith...th his `I know what must be done.' look.)

   Everything felt right for me in that film, as if this was the way Star Trekek
should've been all along.

   But....

PD>    The WORST trek movie had to be #4. Okay, i'm still waiting,

   Can't agree here, though. Once in a while, the old series did a basically
humorous episode (`The Trouble With Tribbles' and `Shore Leave,' espically),
without getting out of character. I'd say this was the time the movies lightened
up, too.

   But ST-5 on the other hand....

   Frank


--- QuickBBS 2.81 GoldBase
 * Origin: The Matrix Data Bank BBS, Rochester, Ny (1:2613/477)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 242 of 317
 From : Frank Glover                        1:2613/477      .îí 26 .âã 96 22:47
 To   : Ken Mayes
 Subj : Re: but about models...
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

KM>          According to TV Guide Deep Space Nine is going to be doing an
KM>  episode this season combining original footage from Trouble With
KM>  Tribbles and placing Sisko and a few other DS9 regulars in the bar
KM>  scene with Kirk and Spock. I've heard that both Shatner and Nimoy
KM>  were a little irked by it, but it should still be interesting to see
KM>  how it works out.

   Hmmm. Would this be something like the Forrest Gump meets John Kennedy scene,
or that new beer commercial `starring' John Wayne?

   Frank


--- QuickBBS 2.81 GoldBase
 * Origin: The Matrix Data Bank BBS, Rochester, Ny (1:2613/477)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 243 of 317
 From : Bill Clements                       1:18/230        .cê 25 .âã 96 16:01
 To   : Leman Russ
 Subj : BY FORCE OF ARMS
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
From the desk of a cynical old man...

Posted 24 Aug 96 - Leman Russ to Bill Clements

 LR>  And the civil war really didn't eld slavery, the cotton gin made the
 LR> "cotton pickin' slaves" economically unfeasible.

You've gotten this _BACKWARDS_ ! Here's some recycled text
discussing the issue ...

Posted 28 Jul 96 - Frank Glover to David Johnston

 DJ>  And was slavery a major economic factor in the region at the time?

 FG>    As Kay pointed out, yes indeed. Strangely enough, the invention of
 FG> the Cotton Gin helped make it so. Before that, seperating the seeds
 FG> from cotton was so labor intensive, added to the cost of maintaining
 FG> slaves, it was barely worth it. Mechanize that, and now your labor
 FG> can concentrate on growing the stuff.

 LR> That was the real gist of the CW. By the 1860s slavery was a dieing
 LR> institution as cotton gins could pick and process cotton faster and
 LR> more economically than slaves could.

Cotton fiber is part of the cotton plant's method of propagation.
When cotton seed pods are ripe they burst exposing cotton fiber,
with seeds attached, to the elements. Wind moves the fluff and
seeds away from the parent plant and the cycle begins anew.

The cotton gin _ONLY_PROCESSES_ cotton it does not cultivate
it. Processing cotton, the removal of the seeds and hulls from
the fluffy cotton fiber, is labor intensive to the extreme.
Offloading the task of processing to a machine allowed the
transfer of labor to cultivation; planting, growing, and
picking; which in turn caused an increase in cotton production.

More product available for export with no increase in labor costs,
as already noted, made growing cotton with slave labor _MORE_ ,
not less, profitable.

I hope this clears up your confusion.

--rwc

... "A generation which ignores history has no past - and no future." --LL

--- PPoint 2.00 / QWK

--- FLAME v1.1
 * Origin: ANCESTRY TBBS Shadows of forgotten ancestors 941-382-9061 (1:18/230)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 244 of 317
 From : Patrick Duda                        1:218/801       .îí 26 .âã 96 15:40
 To   : Jeff Hancock
 Subj : Japanese SF
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12  91-0018

-> Dubbed... Speed Racer.
-> Hacked... Clash of the Bionoids.  Or maybe G-Force/Battle of the
-> Planets.

 I haven't seen enough anime to vote, but i'd second that nomination for
hacked.

-> terrific story.  I'm not sure what level of "realistic" Patrick
-> means, it could just be over SM telling a long story in pieces
-> rather than just

 I mean they pick up boulders without even a cheep superpower to
compensate, and slam doors off hinges and re-hang them, etc etc. Just
stpid little things that get on your nerves after a while, esp. since
they treat it as a dramatic series by putting feeble plot twists in and
other 'suspense' things. Sure it's a kids show but if the begginings are
like this what's the rest look like?

-> Hey.  That's it.  That's the Babylon 5 - Sailor Moon connection.
-> Arc stories.  <slapping forehead>  No WONDER such wildly disparate
-> shows

 That's right! I can turn on either and know what the caharacters are
dealing with, who they are, how they act, and build on a story!!!
  Unlike startrek DS9 or voyajerk it's sequential. There are only one or
two eps. that can be seen out of sequence without noticing it, although
most of DS9 and Voyajerk can be seen that way, with the exception of
stuff like 'Defiant' and officier cahnges. There's no continutiy to the
ST universe anymore.

-> I've seen a number of taglines from that.  Seems funny.

 Darkwing duck is good. He's the class nerd turned low-budget superhero.
But it's designed funny. Evrything is silly.


 You know what? IO saw the 'worf the dictator' ds9 ep last night, and I
was watching it, and I looked at the clock and over a half-hour had
passed and I realized pretty much nothing had happened. It's lame,
boring. Only the last 7 minutes was good. The rest was junk, esp. with
the cheep writing for the 'other-world' characters.

--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12
 * Origin: Star Tech Diamond Bar, CA 909-396-4227 714-257-1175  (1:218/801.0)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 245 of 317
 From : David Johnston                      1:348/402       .îí 26 .âã 96 18:22
 To   : Josh Hill
 Subj : Independence Day (bel
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE 1.11+
.NOTE: IceEdit 1.40 21141
Hi Josh
I recieved this net mail addressed to David Johnston (that is my name)but I am
sure it was not intended for me... I thought i would answer as I do have friends
in waco Texas..... Bob and Janice Adams.... I live in winnipeg Canada
.... I would be interested in talking with you as it is not often I get mail
from Texas

David Johnston
Canada

... IBM = Incorrigible Boisterous Mammoth
--- GEcho/386 1.11+
 * Origin: * Cobalt's Haven * Winnipeg * 204-832-9603 * OS/2-FD-RA * (1:348/402)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 246 of 317
 From : Michael Harper                      1:123/10        .ÿò 23 .âã 96 22:33
 To   : Owen E. Oulton
 Subj : B5 RENEWED
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
While sipping a dry martini, Owen E. Oulton told Michael Harper about
B5 RENEWED...

 MH>  That sounds like a typical George Roy Hill trick; he's one of the few
 MH>  directors I know of who can get away with a stunt like that. And I
 MH>  never noticed that one, either. The whole movie was so entertaining
 MH>  that I didn't catch that bit. Chalk it up to Bill Goldman's scripting
 MH>  prowess...

 OEO> Well, IMNSHO, I think that to pull off a trick of that maginitude,
 OEO> you's also have to credit Newman and Redford, as well as Hill himself.
 OEO> That sort of thing requires a team effort.

 No argument there; but I'd include the entire cast in that case. If not
 for Kate Ross and Ted Cassidy, among others, to bounce off of, Newman
 and Redford would've had damn little to do... You're dead-on, though;
 serious team effort, and beautifully done. Butch And Sundance is one of
 my favorite films of all time, right up the with Branagh's _Henry V_,
 Lean's _Lawrence Of Arabia_, and Hitchcock's _Rear Window_, just to
 name three...


... "Aurens said there would be gold. He lied. He is not perfect." -Auda
--- RA/FD/FMail
 * Origin: The Eclectic Fox -- Memphis TN  (901)327-1008 (1:123/10)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 247 of 317
 From : Dave Ewen                           1:266/167       .îí 26 .âã 96 10:04
 To   : Ted Stout
 Subj : Favourite Trek movie of a
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

TS>I vote for Wrath of Khan.

That stunk. Was pointlessly violent. I vote for movie #1.

---
 þ SLMR 2.1a þ P Anderson: "Call Me Joe"


 * Origin: Logan's Run Swedesboro,NJ USA 609-467-9649 (1:266/167)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 248 of 317
 From : Chris Cobb                          1:3600/7        .cê 25 .âã 96 16:09
 To   : All
 Subj : Metroplois
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 I recently saw a really cool movie called Metropolis. My friend was telling
me about how it was made by some German guy in the 1920's and that it was
quite controversial during it's time. I found the concepts in the movie way
more advanced than any person from the 1920's should have thought. I was
just wondering, has anyone else seen this movie? I'm looking for a copy of
it that I can buy. The version I saw was a remake though, it had an ambient
techno soundtrack to it.

-=-
 * OLX 2.2 * Go ahead, jump. 100,000 Lemmings can't be wrong.

--- SLMAIL v3.5C  (#1540)
 * Origin: Robotech  -=-Fansubbed anime available upon request-=- (1:3600/7)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 249 of 317
 From : Jeff Hancock                        1:3600/7        .cê 25 .âã 96 21:39
 To   : Patrick Duda
 Subj : Macross 7
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

PD>   I found out the thing is about 50 episodes long, each 30 min. It
PD>aired apparently a year or so ago (early 1995?). There are already

Interesting.  Wish I'd heard more about it.  How does it fit into the
Macross continuity?

PD>several spinoffs either made or in the process of being made, and

*Several*?  (0_0)

PD>there are several CD's available featuring the outstanding music of

Not too much surprise there... happens to quite a few anime series,
although they're usually quite hard to find unless you know the "right"
places.
-=-
 * Crazy-J * I seem to be having difficulty with my lifestyle.

--- SLMAIL v3.5C  (#1540)
 * Origin: Robotech  -=-Fansubbed anime available upon request-=- (1:3600/7)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 250 of 317
 From : Jeff Hancock                        1:3600/7        .cê 25 .âã 96 21:42
 To   : Patty Moniz
 Subj : Japanese SF
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

PM> It's called the Tokyo Tower. ^_^  Seriously.

Oh, hello Patty!  Good to see you here!

PM>... Moon..Spiral..(WHACK! Oops, sorry Rei!)HEADACHE! Er, I mean
PM>HEARTACHE!

Bah-hah-hah-haaa!  Where exactly did *this* little gem come from? <G>

I swear she could out-spin a washer/dryer during that little move.
-=-
 * Crazy-J * "That's all water over the ... embankment, Robin" -Batman

--- SLMAIL v3.5C  (#1540)
 * Origin: Robotech  -=-Fansubbed anime available upon request-=- (1:3600/7)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 251 of 317
 From : Jeff Hancock                        1:3600/7        .cê 25 .âã 96 23:19
 To   : Chris Cobb
 Subj : Battle Angel!
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

CC> I recently have gotten into Anime and I saw a movie called Battle
CC>Angel in subtitled version. The tape contatined 2 parts, I was just
CC>wondering if ther was anymore to it besides that?

...Just checked some of my inadequate reference files, and the only
listing I have for it says "OAVs".  Since it's plural, there should be
at least one more tape.  Beyond that, I don't know.

-=-
 * Crazy-J * Echomailing by moonlight, sleeping all through daylight..

--- SLMAIL v3.5C  (#1540)
 * Origin: Robotech  -=-Fansubbed anime available upon request-=- (1:3600/7)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 252 of 317
 From : Patty Moniz                         1:260/388       .cê 25 .âã 96 19:02
 To   : FRANK SWARBRICK
 Subj : on Sci-Fi Channel
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE 1.11+
---On 08-21-96  19:32, Frank Swarbrick screamed about on Sci-Fi Channel...

 PM> Yes!!  I LOVE Space!!  Again, just as I was getting into it, it got
 PM> taken  off.  I just have bad luck with television.

 FS> You and me both!  Here's a short list of shows I loved that have been
 FS> cancelled in the last few years (most lasting only a season or less!):

 FS> VR.5, Under Suspicion, Christy, American Gothic, Due South, Nowhere

 Let's see...the only one there I've actually seen was VR.5.  It was ok, but
 not one of my favorites.

 FS> Man, Space: Above and Beyond, Forever Knight, and probably a few others

 Yes!  I like Nowhere Man(even though I've only seen a couple of episodes),
 Space, and Forever Knight!  I stoped watching it when they put it on at 1 or
 3 AM.  I catch it sometimes in repeats on the Sci-Fi channel.

 FS> I can't think of off hand.  And these aren't just shows that I simply
 FS> liked-- I loved them a lot.  It's so frustrating when you have
 FS> different tastes than the general public.  Ah well...

 I feel the same way.  Here are some of my favorites that up and died.  Some
 of them go back a few years, but I still remember them:

 Strange Luck, Raven, Dark Shadows(the new one), Red Dwarf(no longer on US
 tv)...  I can't really remember much right now.  Raven is the only one that
 doesn't quite fit.  It was about a martial artist.  I really liked it, but
 the ratings weren't there.  I still can't believe that they took Strange
 Luck off the air.  That was really getting good!

 What they did with Dark Shadows still drives me up the wall.  The last
 episode was a _major_ cliff hanger.  It said "to be continued", but they
 never had another season.  AHHHHHHHH!!!!!

 As for Red Dwarf, it's a classic.  It used to run in repeats on the public
 access channel, but now it's not anywhere on tv.

 My best friend and I got so fed up with this one day, we actually designed
 our own tv network.  I named it W.E.T.  Wierd and Exciting Television.  The
 logo for it had her pet guinea pig outlined in pink.  ^_^  It's amazing what
 you come up with when you're bored.


        Shadowcat
        pmoniz@erc.cat.syr.edu

... Immortality is no excuse for not flossing.- Nick Knight

___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20 [NR]
--- GEcho 1.11+ The BEST
 * Origin: Dragon's Cave, South of Texas, NY. 315-963-3389 (1:260/388)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 253 of 317
 From : Patty Moniz                         1:260/388       .cê 25 .âã 96 19:21
 To   : HENRY TRIPLETT
 Subj : Japanese SF
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE 1.11+
---On 08-23-96  12:38, Henry Triplett screamed about Japanese SF...

 PM> ... Moon..Spiral..(WHACK! Oops, sorry Rei!)HEADACHE! Er, I mean
 PM> HEARTACHE!
 HT>
 HT> Swiped!  I know someone in this echo who would appreciate it.

 Go ahead.  I've got tons of 'em. :)  And who's the Sailor Moon fan?

 PM>  ! Origin: Dragon's Cave, South of Texas, NY. 315-963-3389 (1:260/388)

 HT> "Texas, NY?"  Git a rope... <g>

 I really have no idea what that origin line is about.  The BBS is in
 Mexico, NY. ^_^

 HT> ... And then Patty turned into Sailor Moniz!

 [pulling out magic remote control]

 Anime Otaku Power, Make Up!

 "In the name of anime, I will watch you!"

 ^_^

        Shadowcat
        pmoniz@erc.cat.syr.edu

... OTAKU FOREVER!!!!  We're like cockroaches, we can't die!

___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20 [NR]
--- GEcho 1.11+ The BEST
 * Origin: Dragon's Cave, South of Texas, NY. 315-963-3389 (1:260/388)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 254 of 317
 From : Todd Sullivan                       1:202/720.3     .cê 25 .âã 96 19:04
 To   : James Dixon
 Subj : Generic Subject Line
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Reports from the Interior indicate that James Dixon leaked the following to
Phill Ash, re: Dune Encyclopaedia

 JD> Haven't much to do these days what with only a couple conferences left
 JD> at this end and nobody wanting anything to do with the totally evil,
 JD> dictatorial James T. Dixon...

After what Mark Holtz had to say about you, it wouldn't be hard to guess.

Todd Sullivan
Email: todd.sullivan@202-720.mx1.fidonet.org

... "You found yourself on your own, like a rainbow in the dark." --Dio

-*- ASTG 1.9

--- Spot 1.3a Unregistered
 * Origin: Todd's Spot in the Continuum (1:202/720.3)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 255 of 317
 From : Todd Sullivan                       1:202/720.3     .cê 25 .âã 96 19:06
 To   : Ted Stout
 Subj : Independence Day
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Reports from the Interior indicate that Ted Stout leaked the following to
Patrick Duda, re: Independence Day

 TS> Of course he interfaced as easily as he did. he wasn't stuck with
 TS> Micro$ludge's Windoze's plug and pray limitations!

In actuality, the aliens were using the cable relay satellites (Goldblum was a
cable company employee) to coorinate the attack, which meant hacking in and
adapting.  the virus went ointo the satellites, and thence into the alien's
systems, which makes a fine bit of irony.

Todd Sullivan
Email: todd.sullivan@202-720.mx1.fidonet.org

... Run WindowsNT?  I'd rather piss on an electric fence!

-*- ASTG 1.9

--- Spot 1.3a Unregistered
 * Origin: Todd's Spot in the Continuum (1:202/720.3)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 256 of 317
 From : Bob Klahn                           1:234/2         .òp 27 .âã 96 19:12
 To   : Patrick Duda
 Subj : BY FORCE OF ARMS
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
>> One I always liked was, " A man should always be ready to shoot his own
>> dog."

>> I know that was Heinlein, I think it was LL.

 PD>   Why?

 Why do I think it was Heinlein? Cause I seem to recall it that way.

 Why should you be ready to shoot your own dog? Because it would be cruel to
 let it suffer from some of the ravages it may everntually have to go
 through. If it ever turns mean you may have to protect others. Either way,
 it's the dog owner's responsibility.

BOB KLAHN   bob.klahn@toltbbs.com

... Remember, going with the flow, usually takes you down the drain!   OJW
 * Silver Xpress V4.3P RB10275

--- FLAME v1.1
 * Origin: Telnet toltbbs.com or call 313-854-6001, Boardwatch #55 (1:234/2)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 257 of 317
 From : Marco Catalano                      2:2802/152.3    .óá 24 .âã 96 18:56
 To   : Ben Noordegraaf
 Subj : favourite books
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Ben Noordegraaf wrote in a message to All:

 BN> my favourite science fiction books are

 BN> The dune series by frank herbert

 BN> they are the most awesome novels written ever in the history of the
 BN> whole world

I disagree...


Groetjes,
           Marco
--- FMail/386 1.02
 * Origin:       I'm too sexy for this origin       (2:2802/152.3)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 258 of 317
 From : Roy Stevens                         1:108/205       .óá 24 .âã 96 23:34
 To   : Kevin Ahearn
 Subj : BY FORCE OF ARMS
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
KA> RS> So what do ya think of Babylon 5's government?  Currently it's an
KA> RS> out-and-out military dictatorship. What Sheridan says is law.  Who out
KA> RS> there think B5 ought to have immediate democratic elections?

KA>Now there's a can of worms for ya!  To start with, how would anyone who is a
KA>"citizen" of B5?

Easy.  If you pay taxes you're a citizen.  If not, you're out the
airlock :>  Actually, the dictator (Sheridan) gets to say who is and who
is not.  Remember when he kicked all those Earth Watch people off the
station.  And all they were guilty of was trying to take over the
station :)

 * SLMR 2.1a * "Diplomacy" is letting them have it your way.

--- TMail v1.31.5
 * Origin: MultiSystem * Cincinnati, OH * 513-231-7013 * (1:108/205)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 259 of 317
 From : Roy Stevens                         1:108/205       .óá 24 .âã 96 23:37
 To   : David Johnston
 Subj : BY FORCE OF ARMS
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
DJ>-> So what do ya think of Babylon 5's government?  Currently it's an
DJ>-> out-and-out military dictatorship. What Sheridan says is law.  Who

DJ>Dictatorship isn't just the easiest way to get into wars, it's also the best
DJ>way to fight them, in general.  They should wait until after the war, by whi
DJ>time democracy should have been restored to Earth, and Babylon 5 will no lon
DJ>need autonomy.

Oh I know.  I was just responding to someone who said that no
dictatorship was valid, merely cause it's a dictatorship.
BTW, I imagine that once the war's over, B5 will again become part of
Earth.

 * SLMR 2.1a * This computer is just until my HAL 9000 gets well.

--- TMail v1.31.5
 * Origin: MultiSystem * Cincinnati, OH * 513-231-7013 * (1:108/205)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 260 of 317
 From : Frank Swarbrick                     1:104/825       .îí 26 .âã 96 20:59
 To   : Patrick Duda
 Subj : on Sci-Fi Channel
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12  92-0022
On 08-24-96  16:37, shipwrecked and comatose, Patrick Duda said:

 -> VR.5, Under Suspicion, Christy, American Gothic, Due South, Nowhere
 -> Man, Space: Above and Beyond, Forever Knight, and probably a few
 -> others I

 PD> I keep seeing episodes of Forver Knight on USA or SciFi. I wish
 PD> they'd let that show die. (well, it does involve a vampire).
 PD> I simply don't like the whole atmosphere of it. It's just not right.

Well, you're certainly welcome to your opinion, but I thought it was a
wonderful show.

 PD> I didn't care for Nowhere Man either. Oh, the first 6 or so were good,
 PD> but then it was more like 'paranoia man'. It didn't make sense and it
 PD> didn't get anywhere.

I can see we have greatly differing opinions.  I didn't find all of
the NM episodes great, and it got a little tiring in the middle of the
season, but it ended with a bang and I wish it could have continued.

 PD> I don't remember VR.5.

It aired on FOX from March to May of 1995.  I don't feel it got off to
a very good start, but it became very interesting toward the end, and
again I wish it would have continued.

 PD> What's Due South?

It was a Canadian/American co-production.  Filmed in Canada with
mostly Canadian actors, but set in Chicago.  Not science fiction, but
a great show.  Lasted two seasons, but again not enough!

        Frank

... No one can hear when you're Screaming in Digital!
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12
 * Origin: The Bailey Information Exchange BBS, 28.8k v.fc  (1:104/825.0)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 261 of 317
 From : Frank Swarbrick                     1:104/825       .îí 26 .âã 96 21:00
 To   : Roger Fingas
 Subj : Space: Above and Beyond
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12  92-0022
On 08-24-96  23:13, shipwrecked and comatose, Roger Fingas said:

 RF> Did you ever see the episode with the Chig "Red Baron"?

Yea...  I missed it when it originally aired, but saw the repeat a
month or two ago.  Quite a good episode, actually.  (Episodes,
actually...)

        Frank

... No one can hear when you're Screaming in Digital!
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12
 * Origin: The Bailey Information Exchange BBS, 28.8k v.fc  (1:104/825.0)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 262 of 317
 From : Frank Swarbrick                     1:104/825       .îí 26 .âã 96 21:05
 To   : Patrick Duda
 Subj : V
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12  92-0022
On 08-24-96  16:41, shipwrecked and comatose, Patrick Duda said:

 -> Has anyone been watching V on the Sci-Fi Channel?  Last week they
 -> showed the original miniseries, followed by V: The Final Battle.  Now

 PD> I catched a bit of it. It was on too early in the west coast.

You should have paid more attention.  They repeated it four hours
later!

 PD> It's been a while, all right. I thought it was cooler than Star Wars
 PD> when it first came out, although now it's really cheep FX wise.
 PD> It reminded me of how badly we need a REAL alien invades show. Not
 PD> this half-baked stuff like 'The Invaders' or "Dark Skies'. But real
 PD> honest to goodness evil aliens vs us action. A series!

Oh, I dunno.  I'll grant that The Invaders movie sucked royally, but
it was because of the writing, not because of the idea.  As for Dark
Skies, don't criticize it until you've seen it.

 PD> There was a final battle??? That sucks, because then I missed it.
 -> original mini-series.  Alien Nation is better, and I wonder if he
 -> could have brought that quality to the V series.  Does anyone know
 -> why

 PD> Alien nation _is_ better writing wise, although I think V has TONS
 PD> more potential for entertrainment. What fun is a saucer getting a flat
 PD> on earth? :)

Well, I think you're a little too hooked on the "invasion" thing.
It's the writing and the characters that count more than anything.

 -> for the original mini-series, and the theme for The Final Battle is

 PD> there was a 'final battle' movie? There was a series? Was I asleep?
 PD> :)

V aired in 1983.  V: The Final Battle aired in 1984.  V the series
aired in 1985.  (Obviously The Final Battle wasn't actually final.
<g>)

        Frank

... "So lock on to my signal, and BEAM ON DOWN!"
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12
 * Origin: The Bailey Information Exchange BBS, 28.8k v.fc  (1:104/825.0)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 263 of 317
 From : Kay Shapero                         1:102/524       .òp 27 .âã 96 08:31
 To   : Mark Jones
 Subj : CGI -yi-yi
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Aug 24 23:51>, Mark Jones (1:105/302.47) wrote to Jeff Hancock:

 MJ>   [And by the way, given what we can do *now* with computer
 MJ>graphics, the video images of President Clark discussing his
 MJ>assassination of his successor, President Santiago, in Babylon 5
 MJ>would hold no import.  The government would denounce them as
 MJ>lies--and probably would be believed by most people.]

They probably did and probably were, back home.  Thing is, it was established in
dialogue that there was some sort of authenticity code embedded in all military
transmissions which couldn't be faked. (This was also mentioned in the Babylon
Squared/ WWE I and II pair)  So yes, JMS thought of that one.

--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 264 of 317
 From : Phill Ash                           1:275/160       .òp 27 .âã 96 08:45
 To   : Patrick Duda
 Subj : Klingons
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE 1.11+
From astride a Pale Horse, ùANATúô heard...

 -> Duras, leaders of the High Council would sooner lie to the
 -> populus than to have to justify their "honor."

 PD> But you forget Duras is not 'himself'. And if the leader is taking
 PD> his people astray, can you take that as thecount of the whole species?

        My specific reference for that attack was the "Duras is busy
        rewriting history" sequence in "Unification ptI"... I,
        personally would like them to establish that Duras *has always*
        been a changeling... but, no doubt, the real Duras will step out
        from behind the curtain and help OUR BOYS win the day <sigh>

 -> No.  The Bushido dictated "Death Before Dishonor".  The Klingon
 -> Code is apparently "Don't Get Caught".

 PD> WEll, you also need to remember that klingons 'are people too'. They
 PD> don't want to die any more than the others, I would assume. Something

        That's arguable... The Klingon "raison d'etre" (post FarPoint)
        has been to *WIN*... death is the only acceptable alternative...
        (well, that's what they'd have you believe, anyway)

 PD> I haven't seen so far is how they bring up their children. Do  they
 PD> strand them on a planet like the Kason, or something similiarly harsh?

        I got to thinking that that'd be a primo justification for the
        cranial furrows on post-TOS klingons...  Some type of genetic
        goo that affects the Klingon nervous system (as a vaccine or
        something)

 PD> There _is_ a marked change in the Klingon attitude, though. I wonder
 PD> if it's an unconcious change or if the writers actually are taking
 PD> them in that direction.

        I think it's a trend that'd been "latched onto" by various
        writers.  The Cardassians were supposed to be DS9's klingon
        equivolent... problem is the writers seem to think the audience
        wants Klingons.  Unfortunately, the contrary is true... the
        audience wants an unpredictable villian (IMHO)


From the Office of the DeathMaster General...
---
 þ Ôystertags v1.2 þ And I'm no fool to call that hog, cause man I remember
--- Smile :)
 * Origin: * The Beast's Lair * (804)498-3070 * Va Beach VA * (1:275/160)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 265 of 317
 From : Phill Ash                           1:275/160       .òp 27 .âã 96 08:45
 To   : James Dixon
 Subj : Dune Encyclopaedia
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE 1.11+

 JD> Haven't much to do these days what with only a couple conferences left
 JD> at this end and nobody wanting anything to do with the totally evil,
 JD> dictatorial James T. Dixon...

        Yeah, I'm still here, in TrekTech and in Dr Who echos...  I seem
        to be spending more time lately playing the Dune computer game
        than reading mail...

        TrekTech has started into the "can't exceed warp 10 : can too"
        arguements...   It's almost like I'm waiting for Voyager to
        premier so that I'll have something more to lambast. :)


From the Office of the DeathMaster General...
---
 þ Ôystertags v1.2 þ Keep goin' getting higher.  New worlds waiting in the sky
--- Smile :)
 * Origin: * The Beast's Lair * (804)498-3070 * Va Beach VA * (1:275/160)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 266 of 317
 From : Frank Swarbrick                     1:104/825       .cê 25 .âã 96 19:03
 To   : All
 Subj : Anime on SciFi Channel
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12  92-0022
The Sci-Fi Channel is doing an 'anime week' this week (Aug 26-29).
Here are the movies:

Mon - "Tenchi Muyo In Love" (1996)
Tue - "Gall Force: Eternal Story" (1986)
Wed - "Roujin Z" (1991)
Thu - "E.Y.E.S. of Mars" (1993)

Dunno if any of these are any good, but I thought I'd let you all
know.

        Frank

... No one can hear when you're Screaming in Digital!
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12
 * Origin: The Bailey Information Exchange BBS, 28.8k v.fc  (1:104/825.0)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 267 of 317
 From : Patty Moniz                         1:260/388       .òp 27 .âã 96 11:04
 To   : CHRIS COBB
 Subj : Battle Angel!
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE 1.11+
---On 08-25-96  01:29, Chris Cobb screamed about Battle Angel!...

 CC> I recently have gotten into Anime and I saw a movie called Battle
 CC> Angel in subtitled version. The tape contatined 2 parts, I was just
 CC> wondering if ther was anymore to it besides that?

 Nope, that's it.  But if you liked the anime, try to find some of the manga.
 It's the best I've ever read!  The art is wonderful, and the story is great.
 I was a little disappointed by the anime, because I've read the first 2
 graphic novels.  Check them out if you can.  You won't regret it. (Well,
 maybe your wallet will. =)

        Shadowcat
        pmoniz@erc.cat.syr.edu

... Anime, more fun than a barrel of totoros!

___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20 [NR]
--- GEcho 1.11+ The BEST
 * Origin: Dragon's Cave, South of Texas, NY. 315-963-3389 (1:260/388)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 268 of 317
 From : Frank Glover                        1:2613/477      .òp 27 .âã 96 22:47
 To   : James Dixon
 Subj : Re: Favourite Trek movie of a
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

JD>  PD>  3) Ricardo Montelban is cool.
JD>
JD>  Well, I was really disappointed in what became of his Character from
JD>  TOS... He went from an intellectual superman to a cardboard
JD>  villain--a
JD>  madman (right down to lifting Chekov up Vader-style!)...

   Well, he did virtually brag of having five time human strength in the
original episode....

   Actually, he struck me as I think he was meant to, a near-superhuman, driven
mad by years of near-isolation on an uninhabitable planet, and the loss of a
woman he truly cared about.

   When another chance at Kirk (whom he probably nursed blame and hatred for,
the entire time) presented itself, getting him clearly became a Moby Dick-like
obsession, even quoting Ahab at the end. (And note Melville and Milton on the
bookshelf near the Botany Bay strap...)

JD>  Yah, ST-TMP was the "2001" of Trek... It was the most TOS-like (with

   With Doug Trumbull doing all the effects on the former, and most of them on
the latter, I'm not suprised....

   Frank


--- QuickBBS 2.81 GoldBase
 * Origin: The Matrix Data Bank BBS, Rochester, Ny (1:2613/477)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 269 of 317
 From : James Dixon                         1:2604/309      .òp 27 .âã 96 19:12
 To   : Frank Glover
 Subj : Re: Favourite Trek movie
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

FG>   But ST-5 on the other hand....

Was THE most under-rated of all Trek movies simply because it Didn't
focus upon FX and space battles... Instead it did something which none
of the other films attempted: focused on the Big Three, the Kirk-Spock-
McCoy relationship--just like in TOS...

But Todays Fans and of course the Non-Fan critics--didn't want to see
this... No, to them, SF films are FX and space battles NOT about the
characters... So, momentum interjected By the critics contributed to
this film being a flop...



 * OLXWin 1.00a * NCC-1701:Constitution->Bonhomme Richard->Achernar->Enterprise


--- WM v3.10/93-0747
 * Origin: Plain Brown Wrapper BBS-Cresskill NJ.(201)569-6685  (1:2604/309)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 270 of 317
 From : Ted Stout                           1:270/435       .òp 27 .âã 96 14:58
 To   : Patrick Duda
 Subj : Favourite Trek movie of a
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Thanks for the reply. I think the worst was the "politically correct" one where
they returned to save the whales.
Ted

--- Maximus 3.01
 * Origin: The Good News BBS  Bowmansville, PA (1:270/435)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 271 of 317
 From : Ted Stout                           1:270/435       .òp 27 .âã 96 14:59
 To   : Stephen Simmons
 Subj : Favourite Trek movie of a
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Thanks! Read my post where I give my opinion on what I think-IMHO- was the
worst.
Ted

--- Maximus 3.01
 * Origin: The Good News BBS  Bowmansville, PA (1:270/435)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 272 of 317
 From : James Dixon                         1:2604/309      .îí 26 .âã 96 20:04
 To   : Patrick Duda
 Subj : Favourite Trek movie of a
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

PD>>what is your favourite Trek movie of all time? I would like to see some

Overall, I've found the Trek films to be rather disappointing... They
were uneven and while I liked all of them, each one was flawed for
different reasons...

PD>  My vote is WOK. (st2). Why? Simply it is the movie which I enjoyed the
PD>  most, and have continued to enjoy whenever I see it.
PD>  1) It has LOTS OF SPACE BATTLES! YES ! Boom... blam! :)

Yes it did, and I'd say we have it to blame for the current trend of
substituting space battles for good writing and character development...
This was one of those things which Had to catch up with Trek sooner or
later though...

PD>  2) It shows you the inner side of starfleet for the first time, and
PD>  how the crew spends their real lives away from the ship (that is,
PD>  kirk's apartment and stuff).

I can see that, but I can also see a nasty trend (which I might add,
started with ST-TMP) in which Earth became so bloody central that the
Enterprise hardly ventured "Where No Man Has Gone Before"... They kept
on pulling back to Earth, film after film...

PD>  3) Ricardo Montelban is cool.

Well, I was really disappointed in what became of his Character from
TOS... He went from an intellectual superman to a cardboard villain--a
madman (right down to lifting Chekov up Vader-style!)...

PD>  4) You actually never quite knew what was going to happen.

Well, it did have a nasty cliffhanger...

PD>   As for my vote for best movie as far as 'real' trek goes, it's the
PD>   first one. No other movie caprtued the essence that was/is trek. The
PD>   others seemed more like 'toy selling' movies. They didn't get anywhere.
PD>   (yes, even by beloved st2)

Yah, ST-TMP was the "2001" of Trek... It was the most TOS-like (with ST
V of all films being the 2nd most TOS-like since it focused on the
Kirk-Spock-McCoy relationship unlike any other film)... After ST-TMP you
could see how various sets and props were recycled in the later films...

PD>  The WORST trek movie had to be #4. Okay, i'm still waiting, somebody tell
PD>  me "What the heck was that all about???". It's like they had a contract
PD>  with SanFrancisco or somethign to do a movie. It sucked. If even a
PD>  crappy bird of prey could time travel the universe would be jello by
PD>  now.

You might have something here... ST IV was a major hit--but mostly among
the average non-Trekker because of its appeal to a wider audience... As
an SF and Trek film it was horribly flawed, from the weak way the
whales were handled to how idiotically lightly the time travel
aspects were taken (heck, just compare what they Did in this film
compared to what they Did in "City on the Edge of Forever" and even
"Tomorrow is Yesterday"!)...

PD>   I give an honorable mention to ST6. It went back to the respectable
PD>   'trek' with interesting storylines, and almost makes it as a real
PD>   storyline IMO, although it still kinda never gets anywhere (you don't
PD>   talk about it afterwards).

But it had more inconsistancies and problems than all the glitches in ST
I through V Combined...and this ruined it for me... (Wrong colored
Klingon blood, Lt. Valeris: the first Vulcan to graduate from the
Academy at the Top of her class!, a phaser locker in the "kitchen"!,
Chekov--ex-Security Chief--asking Why a phaser can't be fired aboard
ship etc.)...

PD>  I don't count the nextgen movies with this. I hear STNG M#2 is a doosie.
PD>  I hope it kicks WOK out of the top seat. Boom! BlasT!

You're optimistic... If what I've been hearing is true, it'll be just as
bad as Generations, if not worse...


 * OLXWin 1.00a * Federation-Star League-Ascension-Adamant-Nichter


--- WM v3.10/93-0747
 * Origin: Plain Brown Wrapper BBS-Cresskill NJ.(201)569-6685  (1:2604/309)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 273 of 317
 From : Phill Ash                           1:275/160       .îí 26 .âã 96 07:56
 To   : Henry Triplett
 Subj : Japanese SF
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE 1.11+

 PM> It's called the Tokyo Tower. ^_^  Seriously.

 HT> Seriously!?!  Well *that's* real imaginative.  <g>  No wonder it's not
 HT> famous.  Not a hint of originality.
 HT> I mean, suppose it was 'Paris Tower?' 8-)

        I suppose that we should be thankful that Gustav had such a cool
        last name... elsewise it mighta been "Smith Tower"  <G>



From the Office of the DeathMaster General...
---
 þ Ôystertags v1.2 þ Actually this Buzzardo was Imaginos in disguise
--- Smile :)
 * Origin: * The Beast's Lair * (804)498-3070 * Va Beach VA * (1:275/160)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 274 of 317
 From : Phill Ash                           1:275/160       .îí 26 .âã 96 07:56
 To   : Frank Glover
 Subj : Dune Encyclopaedia
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE 1.11+
From astride a Pale Horse, ùANATúô heard...

 PA>   JD> context... I highly recommend it...

 PA>          Wouldn't happen to know the ISDN # would ya?
 PA>          They don't let me out in daylight very often... <G>

 FG> I guess not. Don't you mean ISBN? Or did you really want a 128k
 FG> data  connection after all?

        d'OH!
        (maybe I should settle for ICBM??) =)


From the Office of the DeathMaster General...
---
 þ Ôystertags v1.2 þ The magician left a message.  It flashes when I hide
--- Smile :)
 * Origin: * The Beast's Lair * (804)498-3070 * Va Beach VA * (1:275/160)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 275 of 317
 From : Henry Triplett                      1:106/564       .îí 26 .âã 96 17:24
 To   : JEFF HANCOCK
 Subj : Japanese SF
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

-=> Quoting Jeff Hancock to Henry Triplett <=-

 HT>Obviously it's a famous local landmark, at least in Tokyo.  I wonder
 HT>if anyone in here knows what it's called?

 JH> Apparently it's just called the Tokyo Tower.  <shrug>

So they've told me. <g>

 JH> Here's a B5 joke for you, was just looking over the liner notes again
 JH> for the heck of it (to see if I recognize anything better now ;), and
 JH> it says that in Japan, 4 is an unlucky number, because it has two
 JH> different pronunciations -- "yon" and "shi", where the latter "shi"
 JH> also happens to be a pronunciation for "death".  Obviously the Japanese
 JH> were not involved in constructing Babylon 4!  <g>

On the contrary, maybe they were.  And since '4' is bad luck, they figured
that was why it dissappeared.  :)

Henry


... If it's a tie at the RR crossing, you lose. - Operation Lifesaver

___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20 [NR]
--- GEcho 1.00
 * Origin: Eat Flaming Death    Houston Texas    713-447-1927 (1:106/564)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 276 of 317
 From : Brion Lienhart                      1:213/700.2     .òp 27 .âã 96 15:35
 To   : Jeff Hancock
 Subj : Japanese SF
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On Sat Aug 24, Jeff Hancock said to Brion Lienhart:

BL> -JH>Heh heh heh.  The "worst", eh?  This "Ducktales" must be really
BL>I'm sure Patrick has never seen the worst anime. I for one happen to

 -JH>Thread alert!  Thread alert!

 -JH>Okay, what IS the worst anime?  Separate categories for dubbed, hacked
 -JH>(when they're not the same), and original.

I don't think any of us who haven't been to Japan have seen the worst anime, it
probably never makes it over here. Remember Sturgeon's Law: 90% of everything is
crap. Unless you're a real mondo-fanatic, you only see the stuff that somebody
thought was good enough to spend the time and trouble to sub/dub.
I'm sure they've got stuff over there that makes Power Rangers look like
Masterpiece Theatre.




--- QM v1.31
 * Origin: Ministry of Peace - Carson City, NV (1:213/700.2)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 277 of 317
 From : Leman Russ                          1:2250/7        .òp 27 .âã 96 04:38
 To   : James Walton
 Subj : Re: Ghost in the Shell
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 zCould you tell me how good the manga for GitS is?

>;[

--- DLG Pro v1.0/DLGMail
 * Origin: Sage's Tower - Amiga - (618) 259-1844 (1:2250/7)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 278 of 317
 From : Leman Russ                          1:2250/7        .òp 27 .âã 96 04:38
 To   : Peter Mcneill
 Subj : Re: Sound supressors
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 PM> ... I'd be a fundamentalist - if I could just stop laughing..

 Loooove the tagline. In fact, I loved it so much, I STOLE IT!!! Bwahaha!

>;[

--- DLG Pro v1.0/DLGMail
 * Origin: Sage's Tower - Amiga - (618) 259-1844 (1:2250/7)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 279 of 317
 From : Leman Russ                          1:2250/7        .òp 27 .âã 96 04:40
 To   : Patrick Duda
 Subj : Re: Favourite Trek movie of a
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 I think trek 5 was the PITS!

>:[

--- DLG Pro v1.0/DLGMail
 * Origin: Sage's Tower - Amiga - (618) 259-1844 (1:2250/7)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 280 of 317
 From : Leman Russ                          1:2250/7        .òp 27 .âã 96 04:42
 To   : Mark Jones
 Subj : Re: CGI TREK (GLOAT!)
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 I saw the ep where they found the data showing that the president was
assisnated, and Sheridan said that all earthforce messages had an encoding that
made them unfakable to keep false orrders from being issued.

>:[

--- DLG Pro v1.0/DLGMail
 * Origin: Sage's Tower - Amiga - (618) 259-1844 (1:2250/7)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 281 of 317
 From : Ken Mayes                           1:393/7         .pä 28 .âã 96 07:35
 To   : All
 Subj : Homeboys In Outer Splech!
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
        Please....



        Somebody shoot me before I'm forced to watch another episode of UPN's
Homeboys in Outer Space.


        What the hey was Jimmy Doohan doing slumming in such a piece of drek
anyway? Surely he can do better. Didn't he read the script?

        If a letter writing campaign could save Star Trek TOS for a third
season, maybe another letter writing campaign can kill this show outright.

        I wouldn't miss it.



--- CNet/3
 * Origin: The Bard's Tavern Denton, TX (817)243-5110 USR 28.8   (1:393/7)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 282 of 317
 From : Bill Clements                       1:18/230        .òp 27 .âã 96 20:07
 To   : Bob Klahn
 Subj : BY FORCE OF ARMS
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
From the desk of a cynical old man...

"How far would Moses have gone if he had taken a poll in Egypt?
What would Jesus Christ have preached if he had taken a poll in
the land of Israel? What would have happened to the Reformation if
Martin Luther had taken a poll? It isn't polls or public opinion
of the moment that counts. It is right and wrong and leadership."

                                              -- Harry S Truman

Posted 24 Aug 96 - Bob Klahn to Bill Clements

 BK>  One I always liked was, " A man should always be ready to shoot his
 BK> own  dog."

 BK>  I know that was Heinlein, I think it was LL.

"When the need arises--and it does--you must be able to shoot
your own dog. Don't farm it out--that doesn't make it nicer, it
makes it worse."
                                        -- Woodrow Wilson Smith

 BC> $5,000,000,000,000.00, five billion (1860) U.S. dollars,

 BK>  Is this an English billion? Or a typo?

Excuse me $5,000,000,000.00 (typo) it's easy to get carried away
on the 0 key.

 BK>  Liberating a human being from someone holding that person against his
 BK> will  is not stealing.


Please remember that by legal definition the negroes that were
imported to the U.S. as slaves were chattels, tangible personal
property, not people. Appropriation of private or personal
property wether done by an individual or by a group of
individuals, including governments, without due compensation,
even when it's called Nationalization, is wrong.

Public opinion, primarily that of political activists who had no
money invested in slaves, in the north was that the
aforementioned chattels were in fact people and that ownership of
people was wrong. This political activism eventually forced the
president to arbitrarily decree a change in the abovementioned
legal definition.

Recap:

  Declaring people to be property and trafficking in said property
  is wrong.

  Arbitrarily declaring legal property to be contraband and
  confiscating it, without due compensation, is wrong.

Two wrongs, as has been noted historically, never make a right.
They can, and did, however make a war.

The issue of slavery though it was pivotal certainly was not, as
has been taught in the public schools, the entire reason for The
War Between the States, The War to Preserve Slavery, The Great
War of Northern Aggression, The Civil War.

 BK>  There was a lot of interest in your msg, but I think we've pushed
 BK> this far  enough in this echo. If you get the debate echo I'd be happy
 BK> to answer it  further there.

If you truly wish to continue this discussion, as the Debate
Echo is not available at this station, I am:

 rwc@ct.net

--rwc

... "All men are created unequal." --LL

--- PPoint 2.00 / QWK

--- FLAME v1.1
 * Origin: ANCESTRY TBBS Shadows of forgotten ancestors 941-382-9061 (1:18/230)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 283 of 317
 From : Mark Jones                          1:105/302.47    .òp 27 .âã 96 22:06
 To   : Dave Ewen
 Subj : Favourite Trek movie of a
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On (26 Aug 96) Dave Ewen wrote to Ted Stout...

 DE> TS>I vote for Wrath of Khan.
 DE>
 DE> That stunk. Was pointlessly violent. I vote for movie #1.

   I beg to differ.  WRATH OF KHAN is the *best* Trek movie so far.
   Why?

   1.  Ricardo Montalban.  (Specifically, a character with *passion*.
He knew what he wanted, he wanted it very badly, and he was prepared
to do anything it took to get it.  Namely, Kirk's head on a post.

   2.  Dialogue.  Entertaining exchanges like:
       "They're still running with shields down."
       "Of *course*, we're all one big, happy fleet!"

       "What's the meaning of this?"
       "Surely I have made my meaning plain?  I have deprived your
ship of power, and when I swing around I intend to deprive you of your
life.  But first, I wanted you to know who it was who had beaten you!"

       "I reprogrammed the simulation so that it was possible to
rescue the ship."
       "You cheated!?"
       "I changed the conditions of the test.  I don't believe in the
no-win scenario."

   3.  The space battles.  Specifically, for the first time we
actually got to see serious battle damage inflicted.  Instead of vague
flares of light and actors falling all over the set, we got to see
energy weapons ripping open the hulls of the ships.  It looked like a
BATTLE, not a chess game.

   4.  Redshirts with two brain cells to rub together (i.e., the
scientists, who when they decide something fishy is going on, don't
sit on their thumbs.  They hide!)

   Yes, the movie has silly science and all the other Trek
problems--but its fun nonetheless.  It's my favorite.


--- PPoint 1.78
 * Origin: Folcroft Sanitarium (hsmith@cure.com) (1:105/302.47)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 284 of 317
 From : Brandon Wolgast                     1:363/281       .pä 28 .âã 96 15:42
 To   : Ted Stout
 Subj : Favourite Trek Movie Of A
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE/32 1.2

TS>what is your favourite Trek movie of all time? I would like to see some
TS>responses to this question in this area.
TS>I vote for Wrath of Khan.

I'd have to go with The Undiscovered Country as the best, and the worst
is Generations (well, when Kirk is on screen it gets okay).  It is true,
I believe, that all even numbered Trek movies are good, all odd numbered
are bad. <g>

Brandon

***
 * OLX 2.1 * "Only Imperial Stormtroopers are so precise." - Obi-Wan

---
 * Origin: Feduberator * STAR WARS Support * (407)381-2798 (1:363/281)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 285 of 317
 From : Patrick Duda                        1:218/801       .pä 28 .âã 96 16:32
 To   : Michel Fortin
 Subj : Independence Day
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12  91-0018

-> Don't you see? That was the alien's weakness: they tought of
-> everything but when they came to earth they used Macs as onboard
-> computers. Both had OS7.x something. Ounce you know that the rest is
-> a

  Oooohhhh. Yeah I see. That's a heck of a marketing deal. Do you think
Apple charges them extra for exportation costs?

  I'd like to see the bridge of the alien ship, and on the huge monitor
when they're setting off for earth it says "Invaild System Disk, Insert
another and try again" and the alien leader takes off it's hat and
smacks the pilot with it.

--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12
 * Origin: Star Tech Diamond Bar, CA 909-396-4227 714-257-1175  (1:218/801.0)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 286 of 317
 From : Patrick Duda                        1:218/801       .pä 28 .âã 96 16:36
 To   : Frank Glover
 Subj : Re: Favourite Trek movie
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12  91-0018

-> PD>    The WORST trek movie had to be #4. Okay, i'm still waiting,
->
-> Can't agree here, though. Once in a while, the old series did a
-> basically humorous episode (`The Trouble With Tribbles' and `Shore
-> Leave,'

 I can see your point. So _that_ was the idea behind the movie. I guess
so. In that case, I guess it would then be #3. That really was kinda a
waste of a movie.

-> But ST-5 on the other hand....

 Was lame but at least involved a mystery. You got to see some new kinds
of trek (the outer planets, barrier, etc.).

--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12
 * Origin: Star Tech Diamond Bar, CA 909-396-4227 714-257-1175  (1:218/801.0)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 287 of 317
 From : Patrick Duda                        1:218/801       .pä 28 .âã 96 16:45
 To   : James Dixon
 Subj : Favourite Trek movie of a
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12  91-0018

-> Yes it did, and I'd say we have it to blame for the current trend of
-> substituting space battles for good writing and character
-> development...

 I think we should have 2 different trek series. We would have the
die-hard Roddenberry style trek with one, and a public-appealing show
with lots of battles and interesting effects. But that's me, if I want a
good story i'll read a book, but I like to watch the shows and movies
for some eye candy.

-> Enterprise hardly ventured "Where No Man Has Gone Before"... They
-> kept on pulling back to Earth, film after film...

 True. To be fair they certainly wouldn't send the flagship of the fleet
into the armpits of the galaxy, although we _never do see_ any ships
really destined for exploration. I guess it's eaisier to write.

-> TOS... He went from an intellectual superman to a cardboard
-> villain--a madman (right down to lifting Chekov up Vader-style!)...

 Yes, he did.

-> You might have something here... ST IV was a major hit--but mostly
-> among the average non-Trekker because of its appeal to a wider
-> audience... As

 Was this an earlier attempt at gaining larger audience appeal?

-> Klingon blood, Lt. Valeris: the first Vulcan to graduate from the
-> Academy at the Top of her class!, a phaser locker in the "kitchen"!,

 Again that's my taste. I don't really notice the little details, and I
don't remember a lot of basic 'trek stuff' if i'm enjoying the movie.

--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12
 * Origin: Star Tech Diamond Bar, CA 909-396-4227 714-257-1175  (1:218/801.0)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 288 of 317
 From : Patrick Duda                        1:218/801       .pä 28 .âã 96 16:48
 To   : Bob Klahn
 Subj : BY FORCE OF ARMS
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12  91-0018

-> Why should you be ready to shoot your own dog? Because it would be
-> cruel to let it suffer from some of the ravages it may everntually
-> have to go through. If it ever turns mean you may have to protect
-> others. Either way,

 Oh. But doesn't that sorta mean that you shouldn't allow yourself to
get attached to anything, or that you have to be strong enough inside to
cut any ties you have, no matter how strong? The first one is really a
sad sorta view on life, although the second is better you also can't
expect everyone to be able to do so.

--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12
 * Origin: Star Tech Diamond Bar, CA 909-396-4227 714-257-1175  (1:218/801.0)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 289 of 317
 From : Lis Carey                           1:101/230       .îí 26 .âã 96 19:54
 To   : Bob Klahn
 Subj : BY FORCE OF ARMS
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
BK> LC>>He's not by any means a stupid man, but he IS _seriously_
BK> LC>>ignorant of
BK> LC>>how things work anywhere but in Iraq, and could all too easily
BK> LC>>have
BK> LC>>misunderstood a signal that Bush and the State Dept. thought was
BK> LC>>_completely_ clear.

BK> NS> Had they told him, "if you invade Kuwait, we'll bomb the <bleep> out of
BK> NS> you", I do believe that he would have understood, but I don't think it
BK> NS> would have made much of a difference.

BK> The American representative quite clearly told Hussain his dispute with
BK> Kuwait was not an American concern. She didn't make it clear there was a
BK> point at which that would change.

BK> Seems like a pretty clear signal to me, "we'll stay out of your way."

Of course, the assumption at that point was that Saddam was basically
sane.

There was in fact a lot of sympathy for Iraq's position in the dispute
with Kuwait over the oil fields [two of them, a small part of Kuwait's
total oil resources, and Iraq had a pretty good case with regard to
them.] The assumption was that all that saber-rattling was a prelude to
seizing the disputed oil fields - and if that had been all that Iraq
seized, the USA, the UN, Europe, and the Arab countries would have
tsk-tsked something awful, offered copious crocodile tears to Kuwait,
and done nothing.

But Saddam was stupid, and didn't realize that the reaction to seizing
legitimately disputed territory, and the reaction to seizing all of
Kuwait and threatening Saudi Arabia, would not be similar. NO ONE was
going to trust him with a strangle-hold on such a large proportion of
the world's supply of oil, and he should have realized that WITHOUT
having it spelled out to him in words of one syllable, and he was just
too blind stupid to figure it out.

 * OLX 2.1 TD * Does a radioactive cat have 18 half-lives?

--- FLAME v1.0
 * Origin: Withouta Net - Drop In Anytime! - 617/846-5416 (1:101/230)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 290 of 317
 From : Lis Carey                           1:101/230       .îí 26 .âã 96 19:50
 To   : David Johnston
 Subj : INDEPENDENCE DAY (BEL
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
DJ>-> But Independence Day was more of the World triumphing as allies. I

DJ>I haven't seen it yet, but isn't it more like the United States
DJ>defeating a world menace?  What do the other nations do?

It happens to be the USA that stumbles onto the right tactics [American
movie, therefore American heroes], and destroy the mother ship, but it
takes the whole world to actually do the job of defeating all the
attacking ships.

 * OLX 2.1 TD * New mail not found. Start whine-pout sequence? (Y/N)

--- FLAME v1.0
 * Origin: Withouta Net - Drop In Anytime! - 617/846-5416 (1:101/230)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 291 of 317
 From : Frank Glover                        1:2613/477      .pä 28 .âã 96 22:21
 To   : James Dixon
 Subj : Re: Favourite Trek movie
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

JD>  FG>   But ST-5 on the other hand....
JD>
JD>  Was THE most under-rated of all Trek movies simply because it Didn't
JD>  focus upon FX and space battles... Instead it did something which
JD>  none
JD>  of the other films attempted: focused on the Big Three, the
JD>  Kirk-Spock-
JD>  McCoy relationship--just like in TOS...

   Oh, I acknowledge that it *tried* to do this, it just didn't do it as well as
it could have, or shoould have. The drama factor of ST-II impressed me as much
as any visuals. ST-5 didn't. Still, I don't suggest it was trash. There hasn't
been a Trek film yet that I've truly hated. I'm not even sorry I spent money to
see it. But it's still the *least* of the series, so far.....

   Frank


--- QuickBBS 2.81 GoldBase
 * Origin: The Matrix Data Bank BBS, Rochester, Ny (1:2613/477)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 292 of 317
 From : James Dixon                         1:2604/309      .pä 28 .âã 96 18:04
 To   : Frank Glover
 Subj : Re: Favourite Trek movie
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

FG>JD>  PD>  3) Ricardo Montelban is cool.
FG>JD>
FG>JD>  Well, I was really disappointed in what became of his Character from
FG>JD>  TOS... He went from an intellectual superman to a cardboard
FG>JD>  villain--a
FG>JD>  madman (right down to lifting Chekov up Vader-style!)...

FG>   Well, he did virtually brag of having five time human strength in the
FG>original episode....

Yah, but if you weren't a fan and watched TWOK you'd probably think that
Khan was a Vader type guy and only he was a superman (heck, I even
talked to non-fans who saw it and they were blown away when I told them
that Khan AND his followers were ALL supermen!)...

FG>   Actually, he struck me as I think he was meant to, a near-superhuman,
FG>driven mad by years of near-isolation on an uninhabitable planet, and the lo
FG>of a woman he truly cared about.

That seems more like an excuse to make him into a cardboard character...
The original Khan was so much more appealing... Kinda like comparing TNG
Klingons to TOS Klingons in a way!



 * OLXWin 1.00a * Star Fleet Command - Star Fleet Headquarters - U.F.P.


--- WM v3.10/93-0747
 * Origin: Plain Brown Wrapper BBS-Cresskill NJ.(201)569-6685  (1:2604/309)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 293 of 317
 From : James Dixon                         1:2604/309      .pä 28 .âã 96 18:37
 To   : Ted Stout
 Subj : Favourite Trek movie of a
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

TS>Thanks for the reply. I think the worst was the "politically correct" one wh
TS>they returned to save the whales.

They're all politically correct these days... I'm still waiting for a V
episode to come along where Lt. Tuvok is introduced as an
"African-American Vulcan"...


 * OLXWin 1.00a * Keniclius*Kahn*Charon*Green*Soljenov*Thorsen


--- WM v3.10/93-0747
 * Origin: Plain Brown Wrapper BBS-Cresskill NJ.(201)569-6685  (1:2604/309)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 294 of 317
 From : James Dixon                         1:2604/309      .pä 28 .âã 96 18:39
 To   : Chris Cobb
 Subj : Metroplois
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

CC> I recently saw a really cool movie called Metropolis. My friend was telling
CC>me about how it was made by some German guy in the 1920's and that it was
CC>quite controversial during it's time. I found the concepts in the movie way
CC>more advanced than any person from the 1920's should have thought. I was
CC>just wondering, has anyone else seen this movie? I'm looking for a copy of
CC>it that I can buy. The version I saw was a remake though, it had an ambient
CC>techno soundtrack to it.

Yah, it was a groundbreaking movie by Fritz Lang... In the 80s it was
re-released in theaters with a "modern" soundtrack and tinted scenes--it
was also sliced down to 90 minutes when it originally ran 2 hours or
more... Another film you should keep an eye out for is a Russian movie
from the same era called Aelita...


 * OLXWin 1.00a * Columbia (NCC-621) Revere (NCC-595) Entente (NCC-2120): ST-TM


--- WM v3.10/93-0747
 * Origin: Plain Brown Wrapper BBS-Cresskill NJ.(201)569-6685  (1:2604/309)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 295 of 317
 From : James Dixon                         1:2604/309      .pä 28 .âã 96 18:42
 To   : Patty Moniz
 Subj : on Sci-Fi Channel
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

PM> As for Red Dwarf, it's a classic.  It used to run in repeats on the public
PM> access channel, but now it's not anywhere on tv.

Agreed... Hint: DO NOT watch UPN's new sitcom called "Homeboys in Outer
Space"... I saw the pilot episode last night and I'm so disgusted by it
(and the entire Tuesday night lineup) that I feel like abandoning UPN!
This series looks like it's aimed at setting back race relations 50
years... Blaxploitation... Then again the other series shown on the same
night and channel are nearly as bad... Even "Come Back Mrs. Noah" was
more entertaining (and I've always complained about that series being a
dog in every respect--and a British series at that too which is rather
rare for SF)... Anyhow, I'm talking about a sitcom dumber than the
Remake of Get Smart attempted by Fox the other year... If this thing
lasts more than a season, I think the IQ of viewers is going negative...



 * OLXWin 1.00a * Constitution Class Heavy Cruisers: NCC-1700 thru NCC-1711


--- WM v3.10/93-0747
 * Origin: Plain Brown Wrapper BBS-Cresskill NJ.(201)569-6685  (1:2604/309)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 296 of 317
 From : Emilio Ares                         1:379/1         .pä 28 .âã 96 22:24
 To   : Jeff Hancock
 Subj : Re: Anyone know about upcomin
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE 1.11+

-=> Quoting Jeff Hancock to James Dixon <=-

 JD>When's the next (if there's a next!) book in the Man-Kzin Wars series
 JD>coming out?

 JH> Very soon, I ordered it a couple of weeks ago.  I don't think it's
 JH> your usual Man-Kzin Wars novel, though; it is supposed to explain how a
 JH> race like the Kzin could ever develop enough of a civilization to
 JH> become what they became, even before that alien race showed up to give
 JH> them star-faring technology.  (needless to say I forgot who they were
 JH> already ;)

You mean the guys with the five arms that if indoctrinated early enough in
their life cycle become very good slaves?  I can't remember their name
either.

Time to go to Walden books again.

Emilio



... Kzinti Diplomatic Corps - Let's do lunch
--- GEcho 1.11+
 * Origin: The Transporter Room - Online Doom! - 704/567-9513 (1:379/1)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 297 of 317
 From : Emilio Ares                         1:379/1         .pä 28 .âã 96 22:24
 To   : Mark Jones
 Subj : Re: BY FORCE OF ARMS
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE 1.11+

-=> Quoting Mark Jones to Todd Sullivan <=-

 TS> Dunno about that.  According to Heinlein (in "Time Enough For Love"),
 TS> a slave economy can't compete with any other economy.  IIRC, he
 TS> mentioned the lack of initiative amongst the owners being the chief
 TS> reason.

 MJ> Some recent research disputes that.  WITHOUT CONSENT OR CONTRACT:
 MJ> THE HISTORY OF SLAVERY IN AMERICA (I don't recall the author's name)
 MJ> describes some new research which indicates that a slave economy can
 MJ> work quite well.  The *moral* arguments are undisputable--but the
 MJ> economic arguments (that slave economies can't compete with free labor
 MJ> economies) may not be as solid as was once believed.
 MJ> Steve Stirling, I think, used some of this research in the creation
 MJ> of his Draka novels.

I've read these novels recently.  Yes, the economy of the Domination is
slave based and seems to work well for them.  He makes references in
various places about how the Drakon do not develop consumer products.  Why
should they?  Consumer goods and household appliances are to give the
consumer more liesure time.  When the drudgery is performed by slaves,
there is no need to develop these.

On the whole these books were well written but very disturbing.

Emilio



... The Psi Corps is your friend.  Trust the Corps.
--- GEcho 1.11+
 * Origin: The Transporter Room - Online Doom! - 704/567-9513 (1:379/1)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 298 of 317
 From : Emilio Ares                         1:379/1         .pä 28 .âã 96 22:24
 To   : Ben Noordegraaf
 Subj : Re: favourite books
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE 1.11+

-=> Quoting Ben Noordegraaf to All <=-

 BN> my favourite science fiction books are

 BN> The dune series by frank herbert

 BN> they are the most awesome novels written ever in the history of the
 BN> whole world

I wouldn't agree with you there.  You need to expand your reading to
include some of Larry Niven's and Jerry Pournelle's works (both
individually and collaborative) such as The Mercenary, West of Honor,
Ringworld, The Mote in God's Eye, Lucifer's Hammer, Footfall, etc.

My favorite authors are Niven, Pournelle, and Heinlein.  Try some of these
authors.

Emilio


... Choking on ANOTHER Xanth novel??? Apply the HEINLEIN MANEUVER!!!
--- GEcho 1.11+
 * Origin: The Transporter Room - Online Doom! - 704/567-9513 (1:379/1)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 299 of 317
 From : Patty Moniz                         1:260/388       .pä 28 .âã 96 11:57
 To   : JEFF HANCOCK
 Subj : Japanese SF
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE 1.11+
---On 08-25-96  21:42, Jeff Hancock screamed about Japanese SF...

 JH> Oh, hello Patty!  Good to see you here!

 Hi Jeff!  =)

 PM>... Moon..Spiral..(WHACK! Oops, sorry Rei!)HEADACHE! Er, I mean
 PM>HEARTACHE!

 JH> Bah-hah-hah-haaa!  Where exactly did *this* little gem come from? <G>

 I found it in a message a while ago.  Someone was describing some of the...
 stranger...attacks, and came up with it.  I _had_ to use it.  ^_^  I still
 can't get over "Moon Gorgeous Meditation", and "Venus Love and Beauty
 Shock!"

 JH> I swear she could out-spin a washer/dryer during that little move.

 It scares me when she twirls that scepter around.  You almost expect her to
 knock herself out. ^_^

        Shadowcat
        pmoniz@erc.cat.syr.edu

... "Uh, power of web shooters, get real sticky!"-Spiderman

___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20 [NR]
--- GEcho 1.11+ The BEST
 * Origin: Dragon's Cave, South of Texas, NY. 315-963-3389 (1:260/388)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 300 of 317
 From : Phill Ash                           1:275/160       .pä 28 .âã 96 11:09
 To   : Todd Sullivan
 Subj : Space: Above and Beyond -
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE 1.11+

 PA>         B5 doesn't try to make us believe that, in the FUTURE, Marines
 PA>         won't get haircuts  <G>

 TS> As long as it fits under the helmet, nobody says anything.

        In 1984, the US Navy required *all* personnel to shave and
        remain clean-shaven.  The "official" reason was that a beard
        interferes with the proper fitting of the Mark 5 gas mask.  That
        gas mask was only worn by sailors in "General Quarters"
        situations... (that is to say, roughly 2% of the time)...
        Nevermind the fact that previous grooming requirements for
        beards in the Navy allowed for the Mark 5 to seal properly,
        fully containing the beard with no detrimental effect.


From the Office of the DeathMaster General...
---
 þ Ôystertags v1.2 þ Time ain't no reason.  Got no time to slow
--- Smile :)
 * Origin: * The Beast's Lair * (804)498-3070 * Va Beach VA * (1:275/160)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 301 of 317
 From : Phill Ash                           1:275/160       .pä 28 .âã 96 11:09
 To   : Todd Sullivan
 Subj : Klingons
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE 1.11+

 TS>> Want a historical example?  The Samurai in Japan's Feudal period
 TS>> through the Maiji Restoration.  They're just as alien in their thinking
 TS>> as Klingons, when it comes right down to it.

 PA>         No.  The Bushido dictated "Death Before Dishonor".  The Klingon
 PA>         Code is apparently "Don't Get Caught".

 TS> Fine.  Believe what you like, and accord me the same privilege.

        I'm not concerned with belief, just facts...  If you have
        nothing further to add to the thread - then kindly end your
        participation without resorting to this sort of snide
        editorialization.


From the Office of the DeathMaster General...
---
 þ Ôystertags v1.2 þ An instant is an eyelash caught on the tide
--- Smile :)
 * Origin: * The Beast's Lair * (804)498-3070 * Va Beach VA * (1:275/160)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 302 of 317
 From : Phill Ash                           1:275/160       .pä 28 .âã 96 11:09
 To   : Mark Jones
 Subj : Klingons
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE 1.11+

 MJ> "Honor" (like "Democracy" or "Freedom") can be used to justify a lot
 MJ> of sins.  It is also possible for men of good conscience to look at
 MJ> the same situation and come to very different conclusions as to what
 MJ> Honor requires them to do.
 MJ> ....and the Federation lied to the Romulans about developing an
 MJ> improved cloaking device ("Pegasus").
 MJ> Picard and company have all sworn to die rather than violate the Prime
 MJ> Directive...except when its absolutely convenient.
 MJ> Dr. Crusher, noble to the end, has absolutely *no* moral compunctions
 MJ> about using mind and memory-altering technology on aliens whenever it
 MJ> is convenient.
 MJ> Obviously, all Starfleet personnel are lying, dishonorable scum.

        Starfleet does not depict itself as a Gathering of Angels.  It
        does not hide behind a veil of lies in the name of "Honor".

        Tactical and military secrets used to circumcede a "Treaty"
        which we know nothing about cannot be used in judgement against
        (or for) Starfleet.

        Besides which, we are discussing Klingons not Starfleet.

        Dr. Crusher???  Pulaski in "Pen Pals", yes...  Bashir in Kurn's
        swansong (I don't recall the title), yes... Dr Crusher???

 PA> No. The Bushido dictated "Death Before Dishonor". The Klingon
 PA> Code is apparently "Don't Get Caught".

 MJ> Yeah.  Right.  The samurai were as good as everyone else at playing
 MJ> politics--and manipulating events, lying to their enemies
 MJ> (even if the enemy was your alleged ally or master), stabbing one
 MJ> another in the back (WHO, exactly, do you think was hiring the
 MJ> ninja--the peasants?) and generally acting like rulers throughout
 MJ> time and space.  Including the "If I'm the only one still alive,
 MJ> nobody can dispute my version of the story" technique.

        Again, I am not praising the Japanese, I am discussing Klingons.

 MJ> Keep in mind, also, that the Klingons typically are called upon by the
 MJ> script to provide the VILLAINS of the story.  If the Klingon in
 MJ> question wasn't causing problems, he wouldn't be getting screen time,
 MJ> now would he?

        And the villain is honorable?  No.  Thank-you for conceding my
        point.

 MJ> "Most of the criminals in this neighborhood are black, therefore all
 MJ> blacks are criminals...." seems to be the logic behind your opinion.

        If you cannot debate a point without bearing attempting to
        defame "my opinion" you are more than welcome to carry it to
        netmail.



From the Office of the DeathMaster General...
... Speed is the game in the shadow of kings where the company of angels fly
---
 * Ôystertags v1.2 *
--- Smile :)
 * Origin: * The Beast's Lair * (804)498-3070 * Va Beach VA * (1:275/160)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 303 of 317
 From : Todd Sullivan                       1:202/720.3     .òp 27 .âã 96 17:49
 To   : Chris Cobb
 Subj : Metroplois
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Reports from the Interior indicate that Chris Cobb leaked the following to All,
re: Metroplois

 CC> more advanced than any person from the 1920's should have thought. I
 CC> was
 CC> just wondering, has anyone else seen this movie? I'm looking for a copy
 CC> of
 CC> it that I can buy. The version I saw was a remake though, it had an
 CC> ambient techno soundtrack to it.

Yep, Metropolis was way ahead of its time.  So was Fritz Lang, it's creator.

The updated version isn't the only one, but be warned.  The original is lacking
some footage due to deterioration of the film before being placed on tape or
disc.  The updated one had to make do with stills to add what was missing to the
original plot.  Both are good, however, and still very powerful.

Todd Sullivan
Email: todd.sullivan@202-720.mx1.fidonet.org

... "The keeper is helping them...he thinks.  Bring in the logic probe!"
     --Sark

-*- ASTG 1.9

--- Spot 1.3a Unregistered
 * Origin: Todd's Spot in the Continuum (1:202/720.3)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 304 of 317
 From : Jeff Hancock                        1:3600/7        .òp 27 .âã 96 21:26
 To   : Ken Mayes
 Subj : but about models...
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

KM>        According to TV Guide Deep Space Nine is going to be doing an
KM>episode this season combining original footage from Trouble With
KM>Tribbles and placing Sisko and a few other DS9 regulars in the bar

That should certainly be velly, velly interestink.

Not quite the same as re-creating something "new" with virtual actors,
but hey, it's a step.

Has anyone figured out what episode of B5 it'll be put up against yet?
<grin>
-=-
 * Crazy-J * "I, Damaramu, have made the blunder of a lifetime!"

--- SLMAIL v3.5C  (#1540)
 * Origin: Robotech  -=-Fansubbed anime available upon request-=- (1:3600/7)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 305 of 317
 From : Jeff Hancock                        1:3600/7        .òp 27 .âã 96 21:33
 To   : Mark Jones
 Subj : CGI TREK (GLOAT!)
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

MJ>   I seem to recall making the claim in this echo that I expected to
MJ>see new *original* Trek episodes within ten years, using CGI

Well, someone did, your name sounds familiary.

MJ>   "They'll be beaming up some familiar faces when Deep Space Nine
MJ>and Voyager celebrate 30 years of Star Trek.  Through the use of

*AND* Voyager?  Just a plug for the name, or are they going to do
something similiar with that show too?

MJ>the week of November 4) that will put Captain Sisko and his crew
MJ>together with Kirk and Spock as they appeared in 1967's much-loved
MJ>"The Trouble with Tribbles" episode."

Not quite the same as virtual CGI actors or recreations of same,
probably hideously expensive depending on how many changes they have to
make, but should be interesting none-the-less.

MJ>   If this works out well--and I have little doubt that it
MJ>will--those new original-series episodes become even *more* likely.

I'll reserve judgement, but will definitely watch it.

Week of the 4th, eh?  If the B5 eps start up the first week of October,
that would put it up against B5's apparently stupendous season finale.
Of course, I seem to think it was the second week of October last year.

MJ>   [And by the way, given what we can do *now* with computer
MJ>graphics, the video images of President Clark discussing his
MJ>assassination of his successor, President Santiago, in Babylon 5
MJ>would hold no import. The government would denounce them as lies--and
MJ>probably would be believed by most people.]

Garibaldi suggested it was faked.  Sheridan specifically said that there
was a coded transmission on a sub-channel specifically to eliminate the
possibility of fakery.  Somehow equivalent to a 128-bit PGP key, I would
surmise.  Of course, you have to trust the people doing the
verification, but this would apparently be something that any EA ship
or installation would be equipped to do.  If the copies were made,
anyone could decode and check for themselves.

And you are making the incredible assumption that the PEOPLE would
believe the GOVERNMENT.  Supposing that happened today, with Clinton?
Heh heh heh.  Of course, by that time in 2260, anyone who didn't
publicly believe the government wouldn't likely be around much longer...

-=-
 * Crazy-J * We must all make sacrifices, MARK. You may be next

--- SLMAIL v3.5C  (#1540)
 * Origin: Robotech  -=-Fansubbed anime available upon request-=- (1:3600/7)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 306 of 317
 From : Richard Sarner                      1:271/236       .pä 28 .âã 96 23:05
 To   : Myra Fox
 Subj : Circle of Iron
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE 1.11+
Hi Myra,

If I remember correctally, a long time ago you were seeking a legal copy of
Circle of Iron. I have stumbled across one. Are you interested?

The best way to reach me is to email me at rsarner@widomaker.com, second best is
to netmail me at the address in the origin line.

...Richard

--- GEcho 1.11+
 * Origin: THE TIME MACHINE (804)599-6401 TRAVEL THE PORTALS! (1:271/236)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 307 of 317
 From : Frank Swarbrick                     1:104/825       .òp 27 .âã 96 19:50
 To   : Mark Jones
 Subj : CGI TREK (GLOAT!)
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12  92-0022
On 08-24-96  23:51, shipwrecked and comatose, Mark Jones said:

 MJ> [And by the way, given what we can do *now* with computer graphics,
 MJ> the video images of President Clark discussing his assassination of
 MJ> his successor, President Santiago, in Babylon 5 would hold no import.
 MJ> The government would denounce them as lies--and probably would be
 MJ> believed by most people.]

I think there was some mentioned made of special military codes used
on the message to verify it's authenticity.

Or something like that...

        Frank

... "How will this end?"  "In Fire..."
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12
 * Origin: The Bailey Information Exchange BBS, 28.8k v.fc  (1:104/825.0)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 308 of 317
 From : Bob Klahn                           1:234/2         .pä 28 .âã 96 22:45
 To   : James Dixon
 Subj : FAVOURITE TREK MOVIE
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 JD> You might have something here... ST IV was a major hit--but mostly among
 JD> the average non-Trekker because of its appeal to a wider audience... As
 JD> an SF and Trek film it was horribly flawed, from the weak way the
 JD> whales were handled to how idiotically lightly the time travel
 JD> aspects were taken (heck, just compare what they Did in this film
 JD> compared to what they Did in "City on the Edge of Forever" and even
 JD> "Tomorrow is Yesterday"!)...

 I consider STM-IV the best of the lot because it was the most enjoyable. As
 to scientific accuracy, I gave up on that a long time ago.

 As SF films none of the STMs were any good. Number 1 blew it for me, as did
 2 and 3, because of the lack of originality. They all just went back and
 recycled old plots.

 JD> But it had more inconsistancies and problems than all the glitches in ST
 JD> I through V Combined...and this ruined it for me... (Wrong colored
 JD> Klingon blood, Lt. Valeris: the first Vulcan to graduate from the
 JD> Academy at the Top of her class!, a phaser locker in the "kitchen"!,
 JD> Chekov--ex-Security Chief--asking Why a phaser can't be fired aboard
 JD> ship etc.)...

 I missed the Klingon blood and the first Vulcan etc bits. I did wonder about
 the phaser locker in the kitchen. As long as Chekov had been in Star Fleet,
 even if he hadn't been Security Chief he should have known about the alarms.

 Wasn't it Lt. Valeris who did the demonstration? Wouldn't that be a bit of
 excessive showboating for a Vulcan?

PD>>  I don't count the nextgen movies with this. I hear STNG M#2 is a doosie.
PD>>  I hope it kicks WOK out of the top seat. Boom! BlasT!

 JD> You're optimistic... If what I've been hearing is true, it'll be just as
 JD> bad as Generations, if not worse...

 Worse? Is that possible?

BOB KLAHN   bob.klahn@toltbbs.com

... 65536 bytes in 8 lost chains - Convert to taglines (Y/N)?
 * Silver Xpress V4.3P RB10275

--- FLAME v1.1
 * Origin: Telnet toltbbs.com or call 313-854-6001, Boardwatch #55 (1:234/2)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 309 of 317
 From : Henry Triplett                      1:106/564       .åò 29 .âã 96 16:46
 To   : PATTY MONIZ
 Subj : Japanese SF
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

-=> Quoting Patty Moniz to Henry Triplett <=-

 PM> Go ahead.  I've got tons of 'em. :)  And who's the Sailor Moon fan?

Well, Jeff Hancock to name one.  A frequent poster on this echo.

 PM>  ! Origin: Dragon's Cave, South of Texas, NY. 315-963-3389 (1:260/388)

 HT> "Texas, NY?"  Git a rope... <g>

 PM> I really have no idea what that origin line is about.  The BBS is in
 PM> Mexico, NY. ^_^

Ah, a joke.  As in Mexico being south of Texas I suppose.

 HT> ... And then Patty turned into Sailor Moniz!

 PM> [pulling out magic remote control]

 PM> Anime Otaku Power, Make Up!

 PM> "In the name of anime, I will watch you!"

Heh, heh, heh!

Henry



... Once again, Odo wins the Twister championship.

___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20 [NR]
--- GEcho 1.00
 * Origin: Eat Flaming Death    Houston Texas    713-447-1927 (1:106/564)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 310 of 317
 From : Kevin Ahearn                        1:109/104       .åò 29 .âã 96 19:15
 To   : Ken Mayes
 Subj : Homeboys In Outer Splech!
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 KM>         If a letter writing campaign could save Star
 KM> Trek TOS for a third season, maybe another letter
 KM> writing campaign can kill this show outright.

No need.  Just ignore it and it will go away.

--Kevin

--- Maximus/2 3.01
 * Origin: ShanErin (1:109/104)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 311 of 317
 From : Bill Hedrick                        1:282/26        .åò 29 .âã 96 14:41
 To   : All
 Subj : Re: Klingons
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
In a message dated 08-23-96 STEPHEN SIMMONS wrote to PHILL ASH:

PA> The "Honourable Klingon" is a thing of myth...  It's that which Worf
PA> struggles to achieve, just as Data struggled to be "Human" and Spock
PA> struggled to be "Vulcan".

TS> Want a historical example?  The Samurai in Japan's Feudal period
TS> through the Maiji Restoration.  They're just as alien in their
TS> thinking as Klingons, when it comes right down to it.

PA> No.  The Bushido dictated "Death Before Dishonor".  The Klingon Code
PA> is apparently "Don't Get Caught".

 SS>     Are we really any different, as a species?  Actually, I
 SS> suspect that the rank-and-file Klingons more or less espouse     "The
 SS> Code", just as the masses here more or less follow the     basic
 SS> tenets of our society.  It's only the noteworthy     exceptions who
 SS> draw the attention of the Federation, and only     the negative
 SS> exceptions who draw the attention of Starfleet.     So, these are the
 SS> only ones we hear about, just as the human     villains are the only
 SS> ones you see on the news.

It's a tribute to TPTB at Star Trek that a fictional culture has inspired
so many points of view about it.

before I give my opinion, let me say, I've been a Trekfan since Sept. of '66
and have been roleplaying Klingon for 3+ years. I've also spent some time
studying
Okrand's works.

There are a couple of problems here, first it is a fictional culture so it's
relatively
easy to find reasons it doesn't work; Second the portrayals we see are
"biased"
from a Feddie point of view; third it's an _alien_ culture so human parallels
are
 not necessarily apt.

The third point is the most interesting to me.

1) the tlhIngan Hol word "batlh" is translated "honor"
the english word honor doesn't exactly map the same as batlh.
2) Humans have a moral code which values love for others(mercy)
 and logical consistency.  Klingon culture doesn't have the same emphasis on
those virtues.
(reasons I'm glad I'm not a _real_ Klingon)
Ciao,
  BILL

 -> Alice4Mac 2.4 E QWK Eval:22Mar96

--- RA 1.11+/GEcho 1.02+
 * Origin: Science Fiction BBS * Rosemount, MN * (612)423-7358 (1:282/26)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 312 of 317
 From : David Little                        1:106/7315      .åò 29 .âã 96 09:46
 To   : All
 Subj : Star Wars Get-Together
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 * Crossposted from: (( Star Wars Echo ))


             ________   ___   ____     _    _   ___   ____   ____
            / __   __| / _ \ |  _ \   | |  | | / _ \ |  _ \ / ___|
   _________> \ | |   |  _  ||    /__ | |/\| ||  _  ||    / > \  _________
  |  _________/ |_|   |_| |_||_|\____| \_/\_/ |_| |_||_|\_\|__/ |_______  |T
  | |    __________     ____       __    ____    __        _____        | |
  | |   / ________ \   |  _ \     / /   / __ \   \ \      /    _|    /| | |D
  | | /__/ ______ \__\  \ \\ \   / /   / /  \ \   \ \    / /| |     //  | |
  | | ___ |______| ___   \ \`-' / /   / /    \ \   \ \  / / | |    |//| | |L
  | | \  \________/  /    \ \  / /   / /______\ \   \ \/ /  | |     //  | |
  | |   \__________/       \_\/_/    \__________/    \__/   |_|    |/   | |`
  | |___________________________________________________________________| |9
  |_______________________________________________________________________|6

           (B)ring         (Y)our       (O)wn         (E)wok        (!)

              The Star Wars FIDOnet Echo Barbecue Get Together
                       Houston, The Republic of Texas

        I have always complained that none of the gatherings for the echo
 was never anywhere near me and always lost my chance at meeting the Echolites
 and the celebrities that have attended. SO, kind of on a dare, I have decided
 to hold one of my own here in my town!
        There are three locations I have pinned down. The first is at this
 BBS where I frequent for the echo messages. The sysop has a wonderfully
 spacious and beautiful yard to hold the party. The second, although not as
 spacious, is to hold it at the Game Room at my apartment complex. The third
 is at Houston's Memorial Park, although quite spacious we would not be able
 to view any videos or play on the computer!
        I've also nailed down two dates, March 15th or the 22nd. By those
 dates, the ROTJ:SE will have been released and we might be lucky enough to
 find a theater that is running all the Special Editions back-to-back. Also,
 March is usually still pretty cold and signals the start of the rainy season
 for Houston so it is even conceivable that a date of March 29th would be
 more prudent although our luck in finding a SW marathon might decrease.
        I will be barbecuing, but my sauce has been known to curl nose hairs
 and jumpstart pre-adolescents into puberty. Plus, I don't really have the
 funds to feed everyone. You may bring your own meat (be it Ewok, Bantha,
 Boba Fett, etc.) and are welcome to throw it onto my grill (or any other
 people may bring). If barbecuing is not your style, we will provide maps
 for you to visit some of the local restaraunts. Due to there being future
 young Jedi Knights frolicking about and playing, alcoholic beverages will be
 frowned upon but, so far, not banned from the event. Smoking is also
 prohibited in any theater in Houston.
        I will also be scouting the prices of hotel rooms near whichever
 location we decide. If you are a member of a "Frequent Visitor" program with
 a hotel chain, I can also find out the address and phone number of the
 nearest hotel for you. If travelling by plane, try to get a flight to
 Houston's Hobby Airport, since that will probably the closest and I MIGHT be
 able to pick you up. Houston's Intercontinental Airport or West Houston
 Airport will be about an hour's drive (or more, depending on the traffic) at
 any location and you will have to catch a taxi.
        As for celeb's, so far none are planned. BUT, Mike Farnham has hinted
 on kidnapping artist Jordi Ensign an his way here and I'm in good terms with
 a used Sci-Fi bookstore owner so I might can get a writer or two down for a
 book signing and a "While you're in town,..." speech to get them to come.
 Authors L. Neil Smith and Charlene Newcomb have also expressed interest in
 joining us. I also encourage people to bring their collectables for trading
 and autographing. I'm also not too proud to accept any "donations" you may
 want to endow upon me (and no, Imperial script is non-negotiable)! <G>

        For a Texas Travel Guide, call 1-800-8888-TEX, in case you want to do
 any sight-seeing!


    .  A  .                    -=The DoLittle 8-)=-
 .d8  Y8Y  8b.            Star Wars, The Role Playing Game
 888   8   888    Play By E-Mail Game Master and Useless Trivia Guru
 888b.d8b.d888    Star Wars Inter-FIDO Gaming Information Coordinator
 `88888888888' TheDoLitle@aol.com * David.Little@f7315.n106.z1.realm.org
   `"Y888P"'         http://members.aol.com/Mikefjedi2/front.htm



... "Adventure.  Excitement.  A Jedi craves not these things." - Yoda
--- Blue Wave/DOS v2.30 [NR]
 * Origin: The Wizards Realm BBS 1-713-946-7315 1:106/7315 (1:106/7315)

Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 313 of 317
 From : James Dixon                         1:2604/309      .åò 29 .âã 96 19:10
 To   : Frank Glover
 Subj : Re: Favourite Trek movie
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

FG>JD>  FG>   But ST-5 on the other hand....
FG>JD>
FG>JD>  Was THE most under-rated of all Trek movies simply because it Didn't
FG>JD>  focus upon FX and space battles... Instead it did something which
FG>JD>  none
FG>JD>  of the other films attempted: focused on the Big Three, the
FG>JD>  Kirk-Spock-
FG>JD>  McCoy relationship--just like in TOS...

FG>   Oh, I acknowledge that it *tried* to do this, it just didn't do it as wel
FG>as it could have, or shoould have. The drama factor of ST-II impressed me as
FG>much as any visuals. ST-5 didn't. Still, I don't suggest it was trash. There
FG>hasn't been a Trek film yet that I've truly hated. I'm not even sorry I spen
FG>money to see it. But it's still the *least* of the series, so far.....

I dunno, Generations was pretty pathetic... Such a mish-mash of subplots
and death... I still get disgusted over what they did with Jim Kirk and
1701-D... I'd probably have to call it the least of the films...



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 Msg  : 314 of 317
 From : James Dixon                         1:2604/309      .åò 29 .âã 96 19:13
 To   : Patrick Duda
 Subj : Favourite Trek movie of a
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

PD>-> Yes it did, and I'd say we have it to blame for the current trend of
PD>-> substituting space battles for good writing and character
PD>-> development...

PD> I think we should have 2 different trek series. We would have the
PD>die-hard Roddenberry style trek with one, and a public-appealing show
PD>with lots of battles and interesting effects. But that's me, if I want a
PD>good story i'll read a book, but I like to watch the shows and movies
PD>for some eye candy.

Two different series... I'm sure that's one of the problems today: too
much Trek around...that the quality's been watered down...

PD>-> Enterprise hardly ventured "Where No Man Has Gone Before"... They
PD>-> kept on pulling back to Earth, film after film...

PD> True. To be fair they certainly wouldn't send the flagship of the fleet
PD>into the armpits of the galaxy, although we _never do see_ any ships
PD>really destined for exploration. I guess it's eaisier to write.

The TOS Enterprise came closer to the exploration mark you know... But
as for not sending the Enterprise out to explore because she's the
flagship: this sounds like the justification for Kirk destroying the
Enterprise in ST III rather than using ingenuity to defeat a mere 12 man
scout ship (I know, it's the Writers but judging by public opinion you'd
think the writers were just reporting on an historical incident and had
no control over Kirk's actions!)...



 * OLXWin 1.00a * Star Fleet Command - Star Fleet Headquarters - U.F.P.


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 Msg  : 315 of 317
 From : James Dixon                         1:2604/309      .åò 29 .âã 96 19:18
 To   : Bob Klahn
 Subj : FAVOURITE TREK MOVIE
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

BK> JD> You might have something here... ST IV was a major hit--but mostly amon
BK> JD> the average non-Trekker because of its appeal to a wider audience... As
BK> JD> an SF and Trek film it was horribly flawed, from the weak way the
BK> JD> whales were handled to how idiotically lightly the time travel
BK> JD> aspects were taken (heck, just compare what they Did in this film
BK> JD> compared to what they Did in "City on the Edge of Forever" and even
BK> JD> "Tomorrow is Yesterday"!)...

BK> I consider STM-IV the best of the lot because it was the most enjoyable. As
BK> to scientific accuracy, I gave up on that a long time ago.

How can you give up on scientific accuracy when we're talking about SF
movies?

BK> As SF films none of the STMs were any good. Number 1 blew it for me, as did
BK> 2 and 3, because of the lack of originality. They all just went back and
BK> recycled old plots.

I can see this... But ST-TMP I always liked because it was the milestone
Trek movie which started it all and it at least tried to kick off an
intellectual Trek movie series--even though it failed by being poorly
paced, a tad too FXed, and didn't really delve into the characters...
Also had the best musical score and FX of all the films, IMO... ST II
was overall a decent movie though it catered to the, as one movie advert
put it, "A battle is about to begin: a battle between a warrior and a
madman..." although it was meaty and concentrated, with some fine
performances... ST III finally catered to the fans with lots of TOS bits
(from tribbles to pon farr) but on the other hand it was also pretty
idiotic and innocent of science...and introduced us to the clownish
Klingons of TNG...

Now ST IV was supposed to be a lighter movie but I found it to be Too
light, and it catered to the non-fans--almost spoofing the Trek
characters for the sake of the masses' enjoyment... And as a time travel
story it was a joke...

BK>PD>>  I don't count the nextgen movies with this. I hear STNG M#2 is a doosi
BK>PD>>  I hope it kicks WOK out of the top seat. Boom! BlasT!

BK> JD> You're optimistic... If what I've been hearing is true, it'll be just a
BK> JD> bad as Generations, if not worse...

BK> Worse? Is that possible?

Oh yes... When we have the same old, stagnant writers from TNG/DS9/V
writing feature films, it's a bad sign... When we know that they stick
to Cheap gimmicks and formulas to tease the fan community... Generations
was a mish-mash of ideas and subplots--not one was fully explored and
answered... They were just tossed out at the audience in the hopes of
pleasing Everyone without a second thought as to their plausibility and
how it would affect the Star Trek Universe itself... Generations was the
Berman movie and I think we can assume that it expressed his ideas for
Trek's future...

It Pointlessly killed off Picard's brother and nephew, the Duras
sisters, Data (his quest for emotions--the Data that Gene created),
1701-D, and of course Jim Kirk... Essentially, Berman drove a bulldozer
across TOS and TNG, leveling a good portion of what Gene Roddenberry
created, so he could re-create it in the next movie in his own way...
Cheap deaths for cheap thrills... Not to mention the plot of this Nexus
thingie which makes no sense... This Borg film sounds like another
mishmash movie with time travel and other far-fetched, wacko gimmicks...


 * OLXWin 1.00a * STARDATE 7312.31 APPROVED BY GENE RODDENBERRY-ST Blueprints


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Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 316 of 317
 From : James Dixon                         1:2604/309      .åò 29 .âã 96 20:23
 To   : Ken Mayes
 Subj : Homeboys In Outer Splech!
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

KM>        Please....



KM>        Somebody shoot me before I'm forced to watch another episode of UPN'
KM>Homeboys in Outer Space.


KM>        What the hey was Jimmy Doohan doing slumming in such a piece of drek
KM>anyway? Surely he can do better. Didn't he read the script?

KM>        If a letter writing campaign could save Star Trek TOS for a third
KM>season, maybe another letter writing campaign can kill this show outright.

KM>        I wouldn't miss it.

I beat ya to it, posted up a similar message the other day here... UPN
simply Can't get any trashier! Homeboys looks almost racist (then again
all the other programming that night on that channel all seemed to be
aimed at the same group!), not counting how idiotic it was...

As for James Doohan starring... Well, I Hope it was just a one-shot
one-episode cameo... I still don't think he can get as low as Nichelle
Nichols backing the Psychotic Network...


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Ä [32] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 317 of 317
 From : James Dixon                         1:2604/309      .åò 29 .âã 96 20:33
 To   : Mark Jones
 Subj : Favourite Trek movie of a
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

MJ> DE> TS>I vote for Wrath of Khan.
MJ> DE>
MJ> DE> That stunk. Was pointlessly violent. I vote for movie #1.

MJ>   I beg to differ.  WRATH OF KHAN is the *best* Trek movie so far.

Maybe overall, but then I feel that all the Trek films were
flawed--each for different reasons...

MJ>   1.  Ricardo Montalban.  (Specifically, a character with *passion*.
MJ>He knew what he wanted, he wanted it very badly, and he was prepared
MJ>to do anything it took to get it.  Namely, Kirk's head on a post.

I was disappointed though in the character going from this powerful
intellect in "Space Seed" to this raving throat-slitting madman in
TWOK... I feel that they didn't do justice to the character, even though
they tried to naturally justify what they did to him...

MJ>   2.  Dialogue.  Entertaining exchanges like:
MJ>       "They're still running with shields down."
MJ>       "Of *course*, we're all one big, happy fleet!"

Perhaps, but maybe just a tad overdone...

MJ>   3.  The space battles.  Specifically, for the first time we
MJ>actually got to see serious battle damage inflicted.  Instead of vague
MJ>flares of light and actors falling all over the set, we got to see
MJ>energy weapons ripping open the hulls of the ships.  It looked like a
MJ>BATTLE, not a chess game.

That's the problem, ST II introduced us to these FX-laden space battles
in Trek (which would probably have surfaced sooner or later)... Since ST
II, it seems that the average non-Trek fan sees Trek AS a medium for
space battles much like they view the Star Wars films (i.e. it holds
little or no interest to these people when it focuses upon character
interaction and philosophy)... I've nothing against a space battle every
once in a while but I feel it's considerably overused and overshadows
many movies and episodes...

MJ>   4.  Redshirts with two brain cells to rub together (i.e., the
MJ>scientists, who when they decide something fishy is going on, don't
MJ>sit on their thumbs.  They hide!)

They weren't redshirts! Quite to the contrary, they were hiding From the
security division...

MJ>   Yes, the movie has silly science and all the other Trek
MJ>problems--but its fun nonetheless.  It's my favorite.

Overall it probably is the best of the film series but to this day
Spock's death and the ear slugs still turn me off...


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Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 1 of 584
 From : Boris CDuke                         2:463/2.22      .óá 31 .âã 96 22:14
 To   : Chris Cobb
 Subj : Metroplois
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 CC>  I recently saw a really cool movie called Metropolis. My friend was
 CC> telling me about how it was made by some German guy in the 1920's and that
 CC> it was quite controversial during it's time. I found the concepts in the
 CC> movie way more advanced than any person from the 1920's should have
 CC> thought. I was just wondering, has anyone else seen this movie? I'm
 CC> looking for a copy of it that I can buy. The version I saw was a remake
 CC> though, it had an ambient techno soundtrack to it.

You met Georgo Moroder's version of the movie. The best remix ever. Two more
were before. But I don't think it's possible to find original version.

Bestest, Boris Sidyuk

 * Origin: Kiev, Ukraine (2:463/2.22)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 2 of 584
 From : Bobby Rissler                       1:270/435       .åò 29 .âã 96 14:07
 To   : Phill Ash
 Subj : Klingons
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 PA>         What Honor...?

 TS> If you have to ask, you'll never understand.
 PA>
 PA>         Wow!  That rates right up there with "It's not too loud, you're
 PA>         too old"

 PA>         With the exception of Worf, *all* Klingons are depicted as
 PA>         treacherous, treasonous backstabbers who would just as soon

 TS> Not quite.  Every fight is a chance for advancement in all others'
 TS> eyes. Also every encounter has the possiblilty of becoming a fight,
 TS> just as in ancient Greece.

 PA>         No.  Every fight is an excuse for a fight... Every refused
 PA>         challenge is justified by "honor".  No Klingon, other than Worf
 PA>         and Kurn, have even been as good as their word.  Even K'mpec and
 PA>         Duras, leaders of the High Council would sooner lie to the
 PA>         populus than to have to justify their "honor."

 PA>         The "Honourable Klingon" is a thing of
 PA> myth...  It's that which
 PA>         Worf struggles to achieve, just as Data
 PA> struggled to be "Human"
 PA>         and Spock struggled to be "Vulcan".

 TS> Want a historical example?  The Samurai in Japan's Feudal period
 TS> through the Maiji Restoration.  They're just as
 PA> alien in their thinking
 TS> as Klingons, when it comes right down to it.

 PA>         No.  The Bushido dictated "Death Before Dishonor".  The Klingon
 PA>         Code is apparently "Don't Get Caught".

  You both must admit though that Klingons have come a long way since the
original series where they were more like the romulans are now.  Personally I
think that Phil is right, they act like there code is "Don't get caught."


--- Maximus 3.01
 * Origin: The Good News BBS  Bowmansville, PA (1:270/435)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 3 of 584
 From : Bobby Rissler                       1:270/435       .åò 29 .âã 96 14:13
 To   : Ted Stout
 Subj : Favourite Trek movie of all Time
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 TS> what is your favourite Trek movie of all time? I would
 TS> like to see some responses to this question in this
 TS> area.
 TS> I vote for Wrath of Khan.
 TS> How 'bout you?
 TS> Thanks,
 TS> Ted

  I like the movie Star Trek: Generations the best.  Then comes Star Trek IV:
The Voyage home.  I have all of them on tape except for Star Trek VI: The
Undiscovered Country.  I really want to see the new movie Star Trek: First
Contact.


--- Maximus 3.01
 * Origin: The Good News BBS  Bowmansville, PA (1:270/435)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 4 of 584
 From : Bobby Rissler                       1:270/435       .åò 29 .âã 96 14:19
 To   : Stephen Simmons
 Subj : Klingons
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 SS>     Are we really any different, as a species?  Actually, I
 SS>     suspect that the rank-and-file Klingons more or less espouse
 SS>     "The Code", just as the masses here more or less follow the
 SS>     basic tenets of our society.  It's only the noteworthy
 SS>     exceptions who draw the attention of the Federation, and only
 SS>     the negative exceptions who draw the attention of Starfleet.
 SS>     So, these are the only ones we hear about, just as the human
 SS>     villains are the only ones you see on the news.

  Good point.  I never thought of that before.  I think all of the humanoid
species in the trek universe have something in common with humans.  Its probably
how Gene Roddenbury wanted it.  He always got his way you know.  At least thats
what the other producers said.


--- Maximus 3.01
 * Origin: The Good News BBS  Bowmansville, PA (1:270/435)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 5 of 584
 From : Bobby Rissler                       1:270/435       .åò 29 .âã 96 14:27
 To   : Patrick Duda
 Subj : Favourite Trek movie of a
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 PD>   The WORST trek movie had to be #4. Okay, i'm still
 PD> waiting, somebody tell  PD>   me "What the heck was that all about???".
 PD> It's like they had a contract  with SanFrancisco or somethign to do a
 PD> movie. It sucked. If even a  crappy bird of prey could time travel the
 PD> universe would be jello by  now.

  Star Trek IV made more money than all the other original series movies except
for Star Trek I.  ST4 made a little over a million dollars and the first one
made about 1.5 million dollars.  Thats really not a whole lot of money now, but
it was back in the 60's.


--- Maximus 3.01
 * Origin: The Good News BBS  Bowmansville, PA (1:270/435)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 6 of 584
 From : Bobby Rissler                       1:270/435       .åò 29 .âã 96 14:32
 To   : All
 Subj : New Star Wars movies
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
  Did anyone else hear about the new Star Wars movie coming out in a few years.
Its called Star Wars: Shadow of the Empire.  I saw a presentation on it at a
Star Trek Convention that I went to recently.  They are also going to remake the
3 exsisting star wars movies using CGI.  They are going to be released soon.


--- Maximus 3.01
 * Origin: The Good News BBS  Bowmansville, PA (1:270/435)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 7 of 584
 From : Bobby Rissler                       1:270/435       .åò 29 .âã 96 14:35
 To   : Ted Stout
 Subj : Favourite Trek movie of a
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 TS> Thanks for the reply. I think the worst was the
 TS> "politically correct" one where they returned to save
 TS> the whales.
 TS> Ted

  Why does everyone hate that one the most.  I though it was the best one.  It
was funny when spock tried to swear.  I think it was also cool when spock
mind-melded with the whale.  All the other times we saw a vulcan mind-meld it
was with another humanoid.


--- Maximus 3.01
 * Origin: The Good News BBS  Bowmansville, PA (1:270/435)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 8 of 584
 From : Ted Stout                           1:270/435       .åò 29 .âã 96 16:16
 To   : Dave Ewen
 Subj : Favourite Trek movie of a
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Thanks for your input!
Ted

--- Maximus 3.01
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Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 9 of 584
 From : Ted Stout                           1:270/435       .åò 29 .âã 96 16:17
 To   : Todd Sullivan
 Subj : Independence Day
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
I liked the sign off line about using NT..;)
Ted

--- Maximus 3.01
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Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 10 of 584
 From : Ted Stout                           1:270/435       .åò 29 .âã 96 16:18
 To   : Bobby Rissler
 Subj : Favourite Trek movie of all Time
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Thanks for the vote!
Ted

--- Maximus 3.01
 * Origin: The Good News BBS  Bowmansville, PA (1:270/435)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 11 of 584
 From : Stephen Simmons                     1:275/160       .åò 29 .âã 96 21:46
 To   : James Dixon
 Subj : Re: Favourite Trek movie
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE 1.11+
 ÕÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍµJames Dixon wrote:

FG>   But ST-5 on the other hand....

JD>Was THE most under-rated of all Trek movies simply because it Didn't
JD>focus upon FX and space battles... Instead it did something which none
JD>of the other films attempted: focused on the Big Three, the
JD>Kirk-Spock- McCoy relationship--just like in TOS...

JD>But Todays Fans and of course the Non-Fan critics--didn't want to see
JD>this... No, to them, SF films are FX and space battles NOT about the
JD>characters... So, momentum interjected By the critics contributed to
JD>this film being a flop...

   I agree in general, but not in specifics.  IMHO, this WAS the
   apparent intent of the film, but it kept falling short of that
   goal.  The characters frequently struck me as being washed out
   shadows of their old selves.  Despite my very strong
   appreciation for the story in #6, the same is frequently true
   there (with the notable exception of Sulu).


Blackjack - Have Pun, Will Travel
... "Scotty, beam me aboard." ... "Can't you just log on like other users?"
___ Blue Wave/DOS v2.30 [NR]
--- Smile :)
 * Origin: * The Beast's Lair * (804)498-3070 * Va Beach VA * (1:275/160)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 12 of 584
 From : Stephen Simmons                     1:275/160       .åò 29 .âã 96 21:46
 To   : Ted Stout
 Subj : Favourite Trek movie of a
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE 1.11+
 ÕÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍµTed Stout wrote:

TS>Thanks! Read my post where I give my opinion on what I think-IMHO-
TS>was the worst.
TS>Ted

Hey, always glad to share my opinion on most anything, doubly so
when it's actually solicited. <G>
Have to respectfully disagree with you about the worst, though.
I found #3 to be very contrived and poorly conceived, with the
characters frequently seeming almost like parodies of their old
selves.  At least they all seemed to be more or less themselves
in #4.


Blackjack - Have Pun, Will Travel
... Everyone is entitled to *my* opinion. <EG>
___ Blue Wave/DOS v2.30 [NR]
--- Smile :)
 * Origin: * The Beast's Lair * (804)498-3070 * Va Beach VA * (1:275/160)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 13 of 584
 From : Stephen Simmons                     1:275/160       .åò 29 .âã 96 21:46
 To   : Frank Glover
 Subj : Re: Klingons
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE 1.11+
 ÕÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍµFrank Glover wrote:

PA> No.  The Bushido dictated "Death Before Dishonor".  The
PA> Klingon Code is apparently "Don't Get Caught".

SS>      Are we really any different, as a species?  Actually, I
SS>      suspect that the rank-and-file Klingons more or less espouse
SS>      "The Code", just as the masses here more or less follow the
SS>      basic tenets of our society.  It's only the noteworthy

FG> Maybe not too different. I observed long ago (from the barroom
FG> brawl  in the Tribble episode, and Kirk and Kor arguing with the
FG> Organian, up to the Trek Universe as it is now) that judging by our
FG> respective  histories, the main difference is that Earthers *like* to
FG> fight, and  Klingons *love* to fight.

Have to agree with that assessment.  I think a contributing
factor to the confusion is that "Honor" is only half of the
Klingon ideal.  They also place a very large emphasis on "Glory".
Consider the Rite of Succession in TNG, for example.  The primary
consideration for choosing a successor seems to be weighing the
relative merits of the battles and accomplishments of Duras and
Gowron, with little or no discussion of their morals or honor.
Perhaps their honor is assumed to be beyond question, but perhaps
it is simply not deemed to be a significant prerequisite for the
job.  Further opinions?


Blackjack - Have Pun, Will Travel
... "Hard about, Mr. Sulu." ... "No, hard about Yeoman Rand!"
___ Blue Wave/DOS v2.30 [NR]
--- Smile :)
 * Origin: * The Beast's Lair * (804)498-3070 * Va Beach VA * (1:275/160)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 14 of 584
 From : Patrick Duda                        1:218/801       .åò 29 .âã 96 16:08
 To   : Jeff Hancock
 Subj : Macross 7
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12  91-0018

-> Interesting.  Wish I'd heard more about it.  How does it fit into the
-> Macross continuity?

 Well, it's: MacrossII, then Macross PLus (in which the fighters used in
M7 are prototyped, both are used ultimately), then M7. It's all new
characters.

-> Not too much surprise there... happens to quite a few anime series,
-> although they're usually quite hard to find unless you know the
-> "right"

 True. Even a lot of the popular ones seem like they're non-existant.

Of course looking at some of those tables at AniCon96 (as seen in the
sci-fi channels clips of it) would make one drool with anime stuff!
 Is this what the trekkers feel at trek conventions....? ;)

 So far the 4th annual festival of anime has been really great.
The airing of Gall Force was terrific, like watching the LD. Roujin Z
has to be one of my 10 favorites, too. I can't beleive someone wouldn't
put a movie like Gall Forcein theatres.

--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12
 * Origin: Star Tech Diamond Bar, CA 909-396-4227 714-257-1175  (1:218/801.0)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 15 of 584
 From : Patrick Duda                        1:218/801       .åò 29 .âã 96 16:15
 To   : Phill Ash
 Subj : Klingons
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12  91-0018

-> That's arguable... The Klingon "raison d'etre" (post FarPoint)
-> has been to *WIN*... death is the only acceptable alternative...

 Even a klingon has to have enough brains in that cranial cavity to
realize if you kill off all your warriors after a failed mission you
start to come up short on men. How do you think the 'Worf emperor' came
across as an ideal klingon in that last DS9 ep? Now _that's_ a weak
klingon.

-> I got to thinking that that'd be a primo justification for the
-> cranial furrows on post-TOS klingons...  Some type of genetic

 I wouldn't feel a need to explain any differences between TOS and TNG
tech. The FX for the old series was so sophmoric, green women and
chinese klingons?

-> writers.  The Cardassians were supposed to be DS9's klingon
-> equivolent... problem is the writers seem to think the audience

 they did a nice job at first making DS9 it's own little universe,
although since the absence of TNG and the failure of Voyajerk, it's
become a real ad-hoc main series, IMO. I think they need to ditch DS9
and just put sisko and the crew on a _real_ ship, and just do what they
seem to be aching for, and that is to start up another TNG-like series.
 Then it would be nice if they could just put voyager to sleep, too. At
the least ditch the 'gilligan's island' storyline. "Professor, do you
think we could make a wormhole with two pots and a tachyon beam?"

--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12
 * Origin: Star Tech Diamond Bar, CA 909-396-4227 714-257-1175  (1:218/801.0)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 16 of 584
 From : Patrick Duda                        1:218/801       .åò 29 .âã 96 16:18
 To   : Frank Swarbrick
 Subj : on Sci-Fi Channel
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12  91-0018

-> PD> I keep seeing episodes of Forver Knight on USA or SciFi. I wish
-> Well, you're certainly welcome to your opinion, but I thought it was
-> a wonderful show.

 I didn't hate the _whole_ show, I just would like them to get some new
sets and get a star that _looks_ something like a vampire, like someone
like that guy from 'highlander'.

-> season, but it ended with a bang and I wish it could have continued.

 No. I would definately think the show got real tired-like near the end,
with a few episodes being exceptions.

--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12
 * Origin: Star Tech Diamond Bar, CA 909-396-4227 714-257-1175  (1:218/801.0)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 17 of 584
 From : Patrick Duda                        1:218/801       .åò 29 .âã 96 16:25
 To   : Frank Swarbrick
 Subj : V
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12  91-0018

-> You should have paid more attention.  They repeated it four hours
-> later!

 Yeah, I watch it at 8-9pm now.

-> Oh, I dunno.  I'll grant that The Invaders movie sucked royally, but
-> it was because of the writing, not because of the idea.  As for Dark
-> Skies, don't criticize it until you've seen it.

 Agreed. The writing was bad. As for Dark Skies, I cannot give final
judgement until I see it, true, but between the sneak peaks i've seen of
it and millennium, DS looks like it'll run the mystery series path while
millenium will push the edge with dark shows. I see Xfiles getting sorta
cold too, but you can't blame them with the neat-o shows they put on
earlier. Two shows which should be cancelled before they made the pilot
(remeber, IMO) The Pretender and The Profiler.

-> Well, I think you're a little too hooked on the "invasion" thing.
-> It's the writing and the characters that count more than anything.

 Guilty. heh heh. I like explosions.
  But I mean, think of it like this. You have Alien Nation, where the
guys essentially have to deal with each other on earth, with only some
weird overlord guys making trouble, or you can have V, where you can
have saucerfuls of new technologies, new arenas of combat, plot twists
as new invaders come in and go out, and general flexibilty on how the
show goes.
 That's the key, one can change, the other can't. At least not without
changing the base premise of the series.

--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12
 * Origin: Star Tech Diamond Bar, CA 909-396-4227 714-257-1175  (1:218/801.0)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 18 of 584
 From : Patrick Duda                        1:218/801       .åò 29 .âã 96 16:26
 To   : Leman Russ
 Subj : Re: Favourite Trek movie
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12  91-0018

-> I think trek 5 was the PITS!

 All the trek movies but #2 sucked, only some sucked less than others.

--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12
 * Origin: Star Tech Diamond Bar, CA 909-396-4227 714-257-1175  (1:218/801.0)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 19 of 584
 From : JAMES DIXON                         1:2604/309      .åò 29 .âã 96 20:51
 To   : PHILL ASH
 Subj : Dune Encyclopaedia
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

PA> JD> Haven't much to do these days what with only a couple conferences left
PA> JD> at this end and nobody wanting anything to do with the totally evil,
PA> JD> dictatorial James T. Dixon...

PA>        Yeah, I'm still here, in TrekTech and in Dr Who echos...  I seem
PA>        to be spending more time lately playing the Dune computer game
PA>        than reading mail...

PA>        TrekTech has started into the "can't exceed warp 10 : can too"
PA>        arguements...   It's almost like I'm waiting for Voyager to
PA>        premier so that I'll have something more to lambast. :)

Oh, lovely... Let me predict that a canon war will crop up there soon,
followed by (or alongside) the 9.99999999 = 1.0 mathematics debate...
Nothing ever changes around here...

---
 * OLXWin 1.00a * For a good time(line) download TREK9.ZIP...
 * Origin: Cork Shoot - 201.569.6685 / 201.569.9011 (1:2604/309)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 20 of 584
 From : HTom Trites                         1:282/62        .åò 29 .âã 96 22:09
 To   : Ken Mayes
 Subj : Homeboys In Outer Splech!
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 KM>         Somebody shoot me before I'm forced to watch
 KM> another episode of UPN's Homeboys in Outer Space.
 KM>         What the hey was Jimmy Doohan doing slumming in
 KM> such a piece of drek anyway? Surely he can do better.
 KM> Didn't he read the script?
 KM>         If a letter writing campaign could save Star
 KM> Trek TOS for a third season, maybe another letter
 KM> writing campaign can kill this show outright.
 KM>         I wouldn't miss it.


This (Homeboys in OS) was truly, horribly, awfully, bad.
It was so bad that it wasn't funny as /bad/ TV.

--- Maximus 3.01
 * Origin: SpareCom: Internet email and Fidonet (1:282/62)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 21 of 584
 From : J.T. Smith                          1:132/152       .ÿò 30 .âã 96 00:38
 To   : PATRICK DUDA
 Subj : Re: Realistic space scen
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.SPTH: Fidonet#1:132/152
From a man who's physically phht.

 PD> Uh oh. Looks like I said the 'A' word! Stirrin' the pot. But i'll
 PD> keep it to SCifi.

 Actually, I would think that quite a bit of anime falls into the SF/Fantasy
 realm.  (At least the stuff I watch does.) D)

 PD> My current pet projects right now (collecting everyhting possible)
 PD> in amime are of course Yamato (a little bit), Ghost in the Shell, and
 PD> the best series i've seen in a bit, Macross 7. I NEED to get the CD for
 PD> Macross 7. :) That's a good question. Do you know of any NATIONAL
 PD> anime distrubutors, like a catlog type place, instead of going anywhere
 PD> and everywhere to get stuff (but at reasonable prices, too)?

 The only thing I could suggest is getting in touch w/ yer local Blockbuster
 Video.  I've found several anime films there, many of which can be ordered
 if ye're interested in buying them.  Canna guarantee good prices, though.
 The only other thing I can suggest would be such catalogues as those put out
 by Intergalactic Trading Co.  Unfortunately, I nae have the address handy
 right at this moment.



... Quit smoking and it's easier to sleep.
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

--- AdeptXBBS v1.08a25 (VC) (Registered)
 * Origin: The Cereal Port BBS 603-899-3335 199.125.78.133 (1:132/152)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 22 of 584
 From : Frank Swarbrick                     1:104/825       .pä 28 .âã 96 21:32
 To   : Patty Moniz
 Subj : on Sci-Fi Channel
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12  92-0022
On 08-25-96  19:02, shipwrecked and comatose, Patty Moniz said:

 PM> ---On 08-21-96  19:32, Frank Swarbrick screamed about on Sci-Fi
 PM> Channel...

 FS> I can't think of off hand.  And these aren't just shows that I simply
 FS> liked-- I loved them a lot.  It's so frustrating when you have
 FS> different tastes than the general public.  Ah well...

 PM> I feel the same way.  Here are some of my favorites that up and died.
 PM> Some  of them go back a few years, but I still remember them:

 PM> Strange Luck, Raven, Dark Shadows(the new one), Red Dwarf(no longer
 PM> on US  tv)...  I can't really remember much right now.  Raven is the
 PM> only one that  doesn't quite fit.  It was about a martial artist.  I
 PM> really liked it, but  the ratings weren't there.  I still can't
 PM> believe that they took Strange  Luck off the air.  That was really
 PM> getting good!
 PM> What they did with Dark Shadows still drives me up the wall.  The
 PM> last  episode was a _major_ cliff hanger.  It said "to be continued",
 PM> but they  never had another season.  AHHHHHHHH!!!!!

I like Strange Luck fairly well, but I wasn't distraught when it was
cancelled.  As for Dark Shadows and Red Dwarf I was only concidering
shows that were cancelled within the last two seasons.  I totally
agree with you on DS, anyway.  I saw it recently on the SciFi Channel
and absolutely *loved* it.

 PM> As for Red Dwarf, it's a classic.  It used to run in repeats on the
 PM> public  access channel, but now it's not anywhere on tv.

Red Dwarf is currently airing on our local PBS station here in Denver.
This is the first time I've seen the show, and I like it a lot.  Just
saw "Back To Reality," so only one more season to go apparently.

Never saw Raven, but I rather doubt I would have cared for it.  Still,
who knows...

        Frank

... Let them eat static!
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12
 * Origin: The Bailey Information Exchange BBS, 28.8k v.fc  (1:104/825.0)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 23 of 584
 From : Bill Hedrick                        1:282/26        .ÿò 30 .âã 96 12:37
 To   : Bobby Rissler
 Subj : Re: Favourite Trek Movie
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
In a message dated 08-29-96 BOBBY RISSLER wrote to PATRICK DUDA:

 BR>   Star Trek IV made more money than all the other original series
 BR> movies except for Star Trek I.  ST4 made a little over a million
 BR> dollars and the first one made about 1.5 million dollars.  Thats
 BR> really not a whole lot of money now, but it was back in the 60's.

Ahh, no it wasn't, also your figures are way off
 as is your idea that these movies were made in the 60s

 -> Alice4Mac 2.4 E QWK Eval:22Mar96

--- RA 1.11+/GEcho 1.02+
 * Origin: Science Fiction BBS * Rosemount, MN * (612)423-7358 (1:282/26)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 24 of 584
 From : Bill Hedrick                        1:282/26        .ÿò 30 .âã 96 12:37
 To   : James Dixon
 Subj : Re: Dune Encyclopaedia
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
In a message dated 08-29-96 JAMES DIXON wrote to PHILL ASH:

 JD> Oh, lovely... Let me predict that a canon war will crop up there
 JD> soon, followed by (or alongside) the 9.99999999 = 1.0 mathematics
 JD> debate... Nothing ever changes around here...

Check your decimal point there James.

 -> Alice4Mac 2.4 E QWK Eval:22Mar96

--- RA 1.11+/GEcho 1.02+
 * Origin: Science Fiction BBS * Rosemount, MN * (612)423-7358 (1:282/26)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 25 of 584
 From : David Johnston                      1:342/14        .ÿò 30 .âã 96 00:41
 To   : Dave Ewen
 Subj : Favourite Trek Movie Of A
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
-> TS>I vote for Wrath of Khan.
->
-> That stunk. Was pointlessly violent. I vote for movie #1.

Why is a pointless movie that has violence worse than one that doesn't?

--- PCBoard (R) v15.21/100
 * Origin: Freddy's Place - Edm. AB - 33.6K (403) 413-3460 (1:342/14)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 26 of 584
 From : David Johnston                      1:342/14        .ÿò 30 .âã 96 00:45
 To   : Phill Ash
 Subj : Klingons
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
-> -> Duras, leaders of the High Council would sooner lie to the ->
-> populus than to have to justify their "honor."
-> PD> But you forget Duras is not 'himself'. And if the leader is
-> taking PD> his people astray, can you take that as thecount of the
-> whole species?
->       My specific reference for that attack was the "Duras is busy
->       rewriting history" sequence in "Unification ptI"... I,
->       personally would like them to establish that Duras *has always*
->       been a changeling... but, no doubt, the real Duras will step
-> out

That would be rather unlikely given that Duras predates the Dominion's
discovery of the Feds and the Klingons.

--- PCBoard (R) v15.21/100
 * Origin: Freddy's Place - Edm. AB - 33.6K (403) 413-3460 (1:342/14)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 27 of 584
 From : Patrick Duda                        1:218/801       .ÿò 30 .âã 96 13:37
 To   : J.t. Smith
 Subj : Re: Realistic space scen
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12  91-0018

-> Actually, I would think that quite a bit of anime falls into the
-> SF/Fantasy realm.  (At least the stuff I watch does.) D)

 I think some of the best stuff, though, like Sailor Moon doesn't fall
into it, although there's always _some_ bit of tech in everything it
seems now.

-> The only thing I could suggest is getting in touch w/ yer local
-> Blockbuster Video.  I've found several anime films there, many of
-> which can be ordered

 I did that. They have some for rent, I also found a local vid shop with
anime for rent. I also have bought a few titles, and I now have all
anime for the next 2 months on SciFi planned out! :)
  I'm cool for now...
Suncoast video has more tapes though than bankbuster video.

--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12
 * Origin: Star Tech Diamond Bar, CA 909-396-4227 714-257-1175  (1:218/801.0)

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 Msg  : 28 of 584
 From : Patrick Duda                        1:218/801       .ÿò 30 .âã 96 13:38
 To   : James Dixon
 Subj : Favourite Trek movie of a
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12  91-0018

-> Two different series... I'm sure that's one of the problems today:
-> too much Trek around...that the quality's been watered down...

 Well they should have two different production crews, it would be
competitive.

--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12
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Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 29 of 584
 From : Patrick Duda                        1:218/801       .ÿò 30 .âã 96 13:32
 To   : Brion Lienhart
 Subj : Japanese SF
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12  91-0018

>I'm sure they've got stuff over there that makes Power Rangers look like
>Masterpiece Theatre.

   It was called 'Ultraman' over here. ;)
---
 * MikeMayl v1.0 * How do you make Windows go faster? Throw it harder!

--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12
 * Origin: Star Tech Diamond Bar, CA 909-396-4227 714-257-1175  (1:218/801.0)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 30 of 584
 From : Frank Swarbrick                     1:104/825       .óá 31 .âã 96 11:21
 To   : Patrick Duda
 Subj : on Sci-Fi Channel
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12  92-0022
On 08-29-96  16:18, shipwrecked and comatose, Patrick Duda said:

 -> PD> I keep seeing episodes of Forver Knight on USA or SciFi. I wish
 -> Well, you're certainly welcome to your opinion, but I thought it was
 -> a wonderful show.

 PD> I didn't hate the _whole_ show, I just would like them to get some
 PD> new sets and get a star that _looks_ something like a vampire, like
 PD> someone like that guy from 'highlander'.

Hmm, I felt that Nick and LaCroix were two of the best vampires ever.
If you want to see badly done vampires, watch the original pilot movie
"Nick Knight" that had an entirely different cast (with one
exception).  Rick Springfield (!) played Nick!  Gag!

        Frank

... Heaven is waiting and waiting is Hell.
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12
 * Origin: The Bailey Information Exchange BBS, 28.8k v.fc  (1:104/825.0)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 31 of 584
 From : Frank Swarbrick                     1:104/825       .óá 31 .âã 96 11:24
 To   : Patrick Duda
 Subj : V
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12  92-0022
On 08-29-96  16:25, shipwrecked and comatose, Patrick Duda said:

 -> You should have paid more attention.  They repeated it four hours
 -> later!

 PD> Yeah, I watch it at 8-9pm now.
 -> Oh, I dunno.  I'll grant that The Invaders movie sucked royally, but
 -> it was because of the writing, not because of the idea.  As for Dark
 -> Skies, don't criticize it until you've seen it.

 PD> Agreed. The writing was bad. As for Dark Skies, I cannot give final
 PD> judgement until I see it, true, but between the sneak peaks i've seen
 PD> of it and millennium, DS looks like it'll run the mystery series path
 PD> while millenium will push the edge with dark shows. I see Xfiles
 PD> getting sorta cold too, but you can't blame them with the neat-o shows
 PD> they put on earlier. Two shows which should be cancelled before they
 PD> made the pilot (remeber, IMO) The Pretender and The Profiler.

I can see no reason to dis any of the shows without even seeing the
pilot.  You really have no idea how good or bad they're going to be.
I intend to give them all a chance and go from there.  In any case, I
like the star of Profiler from her bit in the short lived series Moon
Over Miami from a few years ago.

 -> Well, I think you're a little too hooked on the "invasion" thing.
 -> It's the writing and the characters that count more than anything.

 PD> Guilty. heh heh. I like explosions.
 PD> But I mean, think of it like this. You have Alien Nation, where the
 PD> guys essentially have to deal with each other on earth, with only some
 PD> weird overlord guys making trouble, or you can have V, where you can
 PD> have saucerfuls of new technologies, new arenas of combat, plot twists
 PD> as new invaders come in and go out, and general flexibilty on how the
 PD> show goes.
 PD> That's the key, one can change, the other can't. At least not without
 PD> changing the base premise of the series.

Well, if you've when watching the V series you'll see that it really
isn't all that good, and doesn't live up to any potential it may have.
It's not terrible, but it's not anywhere near as good as Alien Nation.
[Plenty of explosions, though.  :-)]

        Frank

... Is your hair normal, or dry?
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

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Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 32 of 584
 From : Leman Russ                          1:2250/7        .óá 31 .âã 96 04:35
 To   : Patrick Duda
 Subj : Re: Favourite Trek movie
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 PD>  All the trek movies but #2 sucked, only some sucked less than
 PD> others.

 Can't agree. Trek 3 was great, but after that.....

>;[

--- DLG Pro v1.0/DLGMail
 * Origin: Sage's Tower - Amiga - (618) 259-1844 (1:2250/7)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 33 of 584
 From : Leman Russ                          1:2250/7        .óá 31 .âã 96 05:02
 To   : Bobby Rissler
 Subj : Re: Klingons
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 Personally I'd say yhre klingons have DEVOLVED from TOS. In TOS they could at
times behave in a respectable fashion.

 Witness "Day of the dove" in which Kang angerily roars "Were the screams of my
crew imaginary?" This showed that as a captain he cared about his people, and
was deeply hurt to have them butchered under his command. Kind of like a good
human captain would be expected to feel.

 Also, when it was pointed out that he was being used, he threw down his sword,
saying "Only a fool fights in a burning house". Compassion for his crew, and
wisdom. Not a bad man, after all.

 Asides from worf, TNG klingons seem to be a step down from TOS klingons.

>:[

--- DLG Pro v1.0/DLGMail
 * Origin: Sage's Tower - Amiga - (618) 259-1844 (1:2250/7)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 34 of 584
 From : Leman Russ                          1:2250/7        .óá 31 .âã 96 05:07
 To   : Bobby Rissler
 Subj : Re: Favourite Trek movie of a
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 BR> also cool when spock mind-melded with the whale.  All the other
 BR> times we saw a vulcan mind-meld it was with another humanoid.

 Ahhhh, I'd advise you to rewatch "Devil in the dark" if you can.

>;[

--- DLG Pro v1.0/DLGMail
 * Origin: Sage's Tower - Amiga - (618) 259-1844 (1:2250/7)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 35 of 584
 From : Todd Sullivan                       1:202/720.3     .åò 29 .âã 96 17:33
 To   : Bob Klahn
 Subj : BY FORCE OF ARMS
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Reports from the Interior indicate that Bob Klahn leaked the following to
Patrick Duda, re: BY FORCE OF ARMS

 >>> One I always liked was, " A man should always be ready to shoot his own
 >>> dog."
 >>> I know that was Heinlein, I think it was LL.
 PD>>   Why?

 BK>  Why do I think it was Heinlein? Cause I seem to recall it that way.

 BK>  Why should you be ready to shoot your own dog? Because it would be
 BK> cruel to
 BK>  let it suffer from some of the ravages it may everntually have to go
 BK>  through. If it ever turns mean you may have to protect others. Either
 BK> way, it's the dog owner's responsibility.

That's not the impression I got.

It seemed to me that he was referring to taking care of your own business, not
forcing others have to cover for you.  If you can't do your own, why should you
advise others?

Something along those lines...

Todd Sullivan
Email: todd.sullivan@202-720.mx1.fidonet.org

... Bolshevik Raptor:  "Kill the Tyrannoczar!"

-*- ASTG 1.9

--- Spot 1.3a Unregistered
 * Origin: Todd's Spot in the Continuum (1:202/720.3)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 36 of 584
 From : Todd Sullivan                       1:202/720.3     .åò 29 .âã 96 17:36
 To   : Phill Ash
 Subj : Space: Above and Beyond -
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Reports from the Interior indicate that Phill Ash leaked the following to me,
re: Space: Above and Beyond -

 TS>> As long as it fits under the helmet, nobody says anything.

 PA>         In 1984, the US Navy required *all* personnel to shave and
 PA>         remain clean-shaven.  The "official" reason was that a beard
 PA>         interferes with the proper fitting of the Mark 5 gas mask.
 PA> That
 PA>         gas mask was only worn by sailors in "General Quarters"
 PA>         situations... (that is to say, roughly 2% of the time)...
 PA>         Nevermind the fact that previous grooming requirements for
 PA>         beards in the Navy allowed for the Mark 5 to seal properly,
 PA>         fully containing the beard with no detrimental effect.

I'm sure the civilians will appreciate this information.

USS Saratoga, CV-60, 1980-83.  Now in the hands of Gillette.

Todd Sullivan
Email: todd.sullivan@202-720.mx1.fidonet.org

... . "All I got for Christmas was a lousy bag of rocks..." . - Weird Al

-*- ASTG 1.9

--- Spot 1.3a Unregistered
 * Origin: Todd's Spot in the Continuum (1:202/720.3)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 37 of 584
 From : Emilio Ares                         1:379/1         .ÿò 30 .âã 96 12:37
 To   : All
 Subj : Ringworld Throne
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE 1.11+
Hello All,

I just finished reading "Ringworld Throne" by Larry Niven.  This tied up
some loose ends left open in "Ringworld Engineers" but still left some
openings for another sequel.  Has anyone else read this?  Opinions on the
book?

Emilio


... To kidnap a Kzin is probably a mistake.
--- GEcho 1.11+
 * Origin: The Transporter Room - Online Doom! - 704/567-9513 (1:379/1)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 38 of 584
 From : James Dixon                         1:2604/309      .ÿò 30 .âã 96 12:35
 To   : Patrick Duda
 Subj : Klingons
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

PD>-> I got to thinking that that'd be a primo justification for the
PD>-> cranial furrows on post-TOS klingons...  Some type of genetic

PD> I wouldn't feel a need to explain any differences between TOS and TNG
PD>tech. The FX for the old series was so sophmoric, green women and
PD>chinese klingons?

Well, not to us analyze-it-down-to-the-nuts-and-bolts Treknical fans...
There are several explanations circulating ranging from the idea that
TOS Klingons were "Klingon-Human genetic fusions" (from the RPG--an idea
I've never agreed with, considering how these "half breeds" are treated
as equals in the Empire and all) to the idea that there simply are
different Klingon races much like there are different Human races... In
TOS, the more humanoid faction was in power and shortly before the first
film there was a purge and the ridgeheads took control of the
goverment... This is fully documented and backed up by such publications
as the Federation Reference Series, and the novels "Dreadnought!" and
"Faces of Fire" allude to a civil war in the Empire late in TOS... The
FRS states that different races evolved on the homeworld but only one
race has the Fully evolved ridges (owing to an ozone-like problem in that
region of the planet, the ridges serve as "sun screens")... All Klingon
races supposedly have them, but in the TOS Klingons they are far less
pronounced and hair neatly grows over them... But going by "Blood Oath"
at least in extreme age they begin to show these trademarks... Backers
of the RPG explanation go with the theory that the Klingon genes become
dominant of the Human genes later in life...


 * OLXWin 1.00a * Keniclius*Kahn*Charon*Green*Soljenov*Thorsen


--- WM v3.10/93-0747
 * Origin: Plain Brown Wrapper BBS-Cresskill NJ.(201)569-6685  (1:2604/309)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 39 of 584
 From : James Dixon                         1:2604/309      .ÿò 30 .âã 96 12:43
 To   : Bobby Rissler
 Subj : Favourite Trek movie of a
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

BR> TS> Thanks for the reply. I think the worst was the
BR> TS> "politically correct" one where they returned to save
BR> TS> the whales.
BR> TS> Ted

BR>  Why does everyone hate that one the most.  I though it was the best one.
BR>was funny when spock tried to swear.  I think it was also cool when spock
BR>mind-melded with the whale.  All the other times we saw a vulcan mind-meld i
BR>was with another humanoid.

That's just it... ST IV was pretty much aimed smack at the masses of
Non-fans, which is one reason for its popularity... The Trek characters
were pretty much made fun of throughout the film, almost giving this
movie a Camp or Spoof feel... This was made even more so by the general
plot of traveling back in time to rescue whales--with the time travel
element being glossed over big-time... Compare it to the more "serious"
time travel episodes of TOS like "City on the Edge of Forever" or
"Tomorrow is Yesterday"... I think the closest thing to the mark would
be "Assignment: Earth" yet all the characters were in good form and they
were smart enough not to take the risk of changing history--a theme 100%
ignored in ST IV...


 * OLXWin 1.00a * Columbia (NCC-621) Revere (NCC-595) Entente (NCC-2120): ST-TM


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Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 40 of 584
 From : Ted Stout                           1:270/435       .ÿò 30 .âã 96 16:26
 To   : Brandon Wolgast
 Subj : Favourite Trek Movie Of A
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Interesting point about the odd/even Trek movies/quality...
Ted

--- Maximus 3.01
 * Origin: The Good News BBS  Bowmansville, PA (1:270/435)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 41 of 584
 From : Owen E. Oulton                      1:243/45        .óá 31 .âã 96 00:51
 To   : Roy Stevens
 Subj : SOUND SUPRESSORS
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 RS> Ah, but if you really want it silent, just get the guy to step outside
 RS> his spaceship (this is the SF echo afterall) and shoot him.
 RS> Vacuum=silence.  BTW, would a gun work in space?  I can't imagine gun
 RS> powder would work without oxygen.

Yep, a conventional firearm would work perfectly well in a vacuum.  The oxydiser
is part of the propellant.

CFN, O

--- Maximus 2.01wb
 * Origin: Pandora's Box, Ottawa, Ont. 613-829-1209 (1:243/45)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 42 of 584
 From : Owen E. Oulton                      1:243/45        .óá 31 .âã 96 02:00
 To   : Brion Lienhart
 Subj : B5 RENEWED
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

OEO> Confederate being pursued *BY* the Redlegs.

BL> Oops, my fault. Which outfit was he in then, Quantrill's Raiders? I'm not
BL> a civil war historian, so

AFAIK, they never connected him to any historical group.  The leader of the
group when Josey was recruited after the Red-Legs killed his wife was one
"Bloody Bill" Anderson.  I've never heard of him outside of the movie, but then
I'm not a big student of your Civil War either.

OEO> However, Pale Rider is indeed the one in which Clint changes cylinders
OEO> on cap'n'ball revolver, preparatory to the final climactic shootout.

 BL> He does a whole lot more reloading in Josie Wales though.

True, but the specific scene being discussed is the one from Pale Rider.

CFN, O

--- Maximus 2.01wb
 * Origin: Pandora's Box, Ottawa, Ont. 613-829-1209 (1:243/45)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 43 of 584
 From : Owen E. Oulton                      1:243/45        .óá 31 .âã 96 02:05
 To   : Leman Russ
 Subj : Re: SOUND SUPRESSORS
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 LR>  A gun would work in space if the bullet had oxygen in
 LR> the shell, so it might need sealing to make sure the
 LR> air didn;t leak out.
>:[

Ahem.  The oxygen in the propellant is not in gaseous form, but in the form of a
solid oxide.

CFN, O

--- Maximus 2.01wb
 * Origin: Pandora's Box, Ottawa, Ont. 613-829-1209 (1:243/45)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 44 of 584
 From : Roy Stevens                         1:108/205       .òp 27 .âã 96 22:43
 To   : Phill Ash
 Subj : SPACE: ABOVE AND BEYOND -
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
PA>        B5 doesn't try to make us believe that, in the FUTURE, Marines
PA>        won't get haircuts  <G>


Rangers (Marcus) don't seem to have to.

 * SLMR 2.1a * "They just put those DANGER signs there to scare you."

--- TMail v1.31.5
 * Origin: MultiSystem * Cincinnati, OH * 513-231-7013 * (1:108/205)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 45 of 584
 From : David Johnston                      1:342/14        .óá 31 .âã 96 00:21
 To   : Phill Ash
 Subj : Klingons
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
->       Starfleet does not depict itself as a Gathering of Angels.  It
->       does not hide behind a veil of lies in the name of "Honor".

Yes it does.  Starfleet has repeatedly misrepresented both it's own
nature and the nature of the society it represents.  Perhaps the most
obvious example is the Starfleet claim that it is not a military
organisation, but their claim to have eliminated poverty is equally
specious.

--- PCBoard (R) v15.21/100
 * Origin: Freddy's Place - Edm. AB - 33.6K (403) 413-3460 (1:342/14)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 46 of 584
 From : David Little                        1:106/7315      .ÿò 30 .âã 96 08:21
 To   : Bobby Rissler
 Subj : New Star Wars movies
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
-=< Bobby Rissler used the Jedi Mind Trick on me!>=-

 BR> Did anyone else hear about the new Star Wars movie coming out in a
 BR> few years.  Its called Star Wars: Shadow of the Empire.  I saw a
 BR> presentation on it at a Star Trek Convention that I went to recently.
 BR> They are also going to remake the 3 exsisting star wars movies using
 BR> CGI.  They are going to be released soon.

        hehe...It's not "Shadows of the Empire", that's the name of the newest
multimedia product, but the re-release of the trilogy is named "Star Wars:
Special Edition". The new SW prequels have yet to be named.

                                        -=The DoLittle 8-)=-


... STAR WARS FIDONET ECHO...Massing near Sullust...
--- Blue Wave/DOS v2.30 [NR]
 * Origin: The Wizards Realm BBS 1-713-946-7315 1:106/7315 (1:106/7315)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 47 of 584
 From : Leman Russ                          1:2250/7        .ÿò 30 .âã 96 04:55
 To   : Roy Stevens
 Subj : Re: BY FORCE OF ARMS
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 Actually I think that by the end of the shadow war, B5, if it survives, will
probably not go back to being part of earthgov. It will probably remain as an
independant entity that is governed by a council ofthe various races, and will
be sort of what the UN should have been and never was.

>:[

--- DLG Pro v1.0/DLGMail
 * Origin: Sage's Tower - Amiga - (618) 259-1844 (1:2250/7)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 48 of 584
 From : Michael Harper                      1:123/10        .óá 31 .âã 96 09:34
 To   : Jeff Hancock
 Subj : Japanese SF
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
While sipping a dry martini, Jeff Hancock told Michael Harper about
Japanese SF...

 JH> Actually I CRASHmailed the list to you when I sent that message.
 JH> Evidently you didn't get it... probably just as well, seeing as how I
 JH> had to revise a few things.

 That's okay. I got the thing from you in the surface mail... any
 changes, you can tell me...

 MH> JH> I think "kanji" means the written, symbol, form, not spoken.
 MH> I think you're right... in any case, as with Russian and Arabic, I
 MH>speak just enough of it to get in trouble...

 JH> Want some help?  <G>  I've picked up some colorful vocabulary...

 No thanks... I'm in deep enough kaka already... ;)

 MH> Yeah, it's all inflection... Somebody told me about watching SHOGUN
 MH>with a Japanese friend and having them laugh hysterically at
 MH>Chamberlain's pronunciation; he had the inflections wrong almost

 JH> Gah.  I may never learn to speak it.

 It's a bitch, but it can be done. If Connery can do it and still have a
 Scots accent, you can...

 MH> Yeah, "Moogi" is the Ferengi diminutive of their word for "mother";
 MH>so in the episode "Little Green Men", when Rom is howling for Moogi,

 JH> I had forgotten about that entirely!  KuSOOOUUUU!

 See, that's my curse... I can never forget anything for long, no matter
 how hard I try... incidentally, if you'd like to see Armin and Max out
 of makeup, you can find Armin in _Blind Date_ with Bruce Willis and Kim
 Basinger; he plays a bad-tempered French waiter... and Max is in _The
 Rocketeer_, playing the diminutive mobster, Wilmer. He's also in
 _Apollo 13_ as a flight controller. I think he's on screen for all of
 ten seconds.

 MH>the guys on Trek are major anime nuts; witness the episode "Peak
 MH>Performance", with its reference to Project: Lovely Angel...

 JH> That the one with the ships named Kei and Yuri?  Everyone seems to
 JH> know that one, but the rest seem pretty obscure.

 _Tapestry_, with its Nausicaan badboys, is the one that comes to mind
 immediately. Then there's DS9, with its villains, the Dominion. And in
 an early TNG episode the Enterprise's sister ship was named the Yamato,
 although I think they had something else in mind there...

 MH> JH> I think they'll be a little busy on their Yamato/Starblazers
 MH> JH>adaptation for a while...

 MH> God, that's nauseating... hopefully they'll at least watch the
 MH>original a few times so they get it right...

 JH> I never saw the original or the adaptation...  but I'm sure I'll hear
 JH> what they did wrong. <G>

 I saw pretty much every episode of _Star Blazers_ and a couple of
 original episodes of _Yamato_; anything Disney does to it is going to
 be just short of sacrilege...


... "I could eat the ass out of a dead rhinoceros." --Fred Haise
--- RA/FD/FMail
 * Origin: The Eclectic Fox -- Memphis TN  (901)327-1008 (1:123/10)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 49 of 584
 From : Michael Harper                      1:123/10        .óá 31 .âã 96 09:34
 To   : Peter McNeill
 Subj : Sound supressors
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
While sipping a dry martini, Peter McNeill told Michael Harper about
Sound supressors...

 PM> Only if you use low velocity sub-sonic rounds. A silencer by itself
 PM> using high velocity rounds won't do anything about the sound since it
 PM> can't slow down hte round enough to stop it breaking the sound barrier
 PM> unless you're using a one shot supressor.... its biggest function is to
 PM> disperse the muzzle flash combined with low velocity rounds that make
 PM> it so effective which is why .22 makes such a good silenced weapon.

 But here we're diverging somewhat, Pietro. We're talking about
 Hollyweird types who don't know from high-velocity rounds sticking a
 silenced wheelgun in some chick hitter's paw in an otherwise good
 flick... the point being that the average filmmaker doesn't know shit
 about much more than exposure times and f-stops, if that much. We know,
 because we read up on it. But Joe Average the propman doesn't, and
 should. Accuracy is essential in a film, as much so as good acting and
 direction and continuity. Unless you're Alex Cox, you can't get away
 with something wildly inaccurate in a movie anymore; people know the
 difference.

... "Now THIS is what I call a gun!" --Kei
--- RA/FD/FMail
 * Origin: The Eclectic Fox -- Memphis TN  (901)327-1008 (1:123/10)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 50 of 584
 From : Owen E. Oulton                      1:243/45        .óá 31 .âã 96 13:17
 To   : Phill Ash
 Subj : Klingons
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 -> Duras, leaders of the High Council would sooner lie to the
 -> populus than to have to justify their "honor."

 PD> But you forget Duras is not 'himself'. And if the leader is taking
 PD> his people astray, can you take that as thecount
 PD> of the whole species?

 PA>         My specific reference for that attack was the "Duras is busy
 PA>         rewriting history" sequence in "Unification ptI"... I,
 PA>         personally would like them to establish that Duras *has always*

Uh, guys?  Duras is dead.  He never got to be head of the High Council.  You're
thinking of Gowron.

CFN, O

--- Maximus 2.01wb
 * Origin: Pandora's Box, Ottawa, Ont. 613-829-1209 (1:243/45)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 51 of 584
 From : Ken Mayes                           1:393/7         .óá 31 .âã 96 08:59
 To   : James Dixon
 Subj : Re: Homeboys In Outer Splech!
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On Fri 30-Aug-1996  1:36p, James Dixon wrote:

JD> I beat ya to it, posted up a similar message the other day here... UPN
JD> simply Can't get any trashier! Homeboys looks almost racist (then again
JD> all the other programming that night on that channel all seemed to be
JD> aimed at the same group!), not counting how idiotic it was...

JD> As for James Doohan starring... Well, I Hope it was just a one-shot
JD> one-episode cameo... I still don't think he can get as low as Nichelle
JD> Nichols backing the Psychotic Network...


        Great minds think alike



--- CNet/3
 * Origin: The Bard's Tavern Denton, TX (817)243-5110 USR 28.8   (1:393/7)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 52 of 584
 From : Ken Mayes                           1:393/7         .óá 31 .âã 96 09:27
 To   : Bobby Rissler
 Subj : Re: Favourite Trek movie of all Time
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On Thu 29-Aug-1996  2:27p, Bobby Rissler said to Patrick Duda:

BR>   Star Trek IV made more money than all the other original series movies
BR> except for Star Trek I.  ST4 made a little over a million dollars and the
BR> first one made about 1.5 million dollars.  Thats really not a whole lot of
BR> money now, but it was back in the 60's.

        Uh, dude, I hate to tell you this but the Trek Movies made a whole lot
more money than that. From what I've read the first movie cleared over 120
million dollars domestically in its first theatrical release alone. That doesn't
include secondary releases, foriegn releases, the original video release and the
later expanded version release. It's still making money, in fact.

        I don't know where you got this "little over a million dollars and 1.5
million dollars" figure. If that's all the Trek movies made, the series would
have died after the first film and sank without a trace. Without them, there
would have been no TNG, DS9, Voyager and quite likely JMS would never have found
the backing to produce B-5.




--- CNet/3
 * Origin: The Bard's Tavern Denton, TX (817)243-5110 USR 28.8   (1:393/7)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 53 of 584
 From : Scott Curry                         1:275/160       .óá 31 .âã 96 10:59
 To   : Barton Paul Levenson
 Subj : SF myth shattered...
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE 1.11+
Barton Paul Levenson mentioned this about SF myth shattered...

 Sheesh! I gone from the echo for a little while and find this
 when I return ={


 BPL> Man will never get his act together.  Individuals can be saved (by
 BPL> accepting Jesus Christ as their Saviour); Man as a whole will not be
 BPL> saved until the Second Coming.  But don't depend on technology.
 BPL> Technology may just give people faster and more efficient ways to scre
 BPL> each other over.  (Cf "1984" <George Orwell, 1949>; "Downbelow Station
 BPL> <C.J. Cherryh, 1979>; "Forests of the Night" <S. Andrew Swann, 1994>,
 BPL> etc., etc.)

Well seeing as you want to quote SCFI/SCFAN to prove your points
let's see what I can come up with myself here. =>

Man will never get his act together? Hmm then I would recommend
you expand your limited library to include:

_Alas Babylon_, Any of the Lensman series

On not depending on Technology, well perhaps but not for your
reasons. Technology is nothing more than a tool. With out it we
would probably be nothing more than wandering tribes or worse
feudal kingdoms

-Farnhem's Freehold_, _ Complete Bolo-just about any of the
stories but I have the first one in mind




Scott Curry
inet: scott.curry@sbbs.com
Fido: 1:275/160


... now your failure is complete..if you will not turn, perhaps she will
---
 * From Scott's Out Box *
___ Blue Wave/DOS v2.30 [NR]

~~~ ReneWave v2.00 [NR]
--- Smile :)
 * Origin: * The Beast's Lair * (804)498-3070 * Va Beach VA * (1:275/160)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 54 of 584
 From : Dave Ewen                           1:266/167       .cê 01 .åí 96 00:04
 To   : David Johnston
 Subj : Favourite Trek Movie Of A
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

TS>I vote for Wrath of Khan.

DE> That stunk. Was pointlessly violent. I vote for movie #1.

DJ>Why is a pointless movie that has violence worse than one that doesn't?

Oh, maybe seeing all the additional bad acting...?
---
 þ SLMR 2.1a þ All hope abandon, ye who enter messages here.

 * Origin: Logan's Run Swedesboro,NJ USA 609-467-9649 (1:266/167)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 55 of 584
 From : Ken Poe                             1:282/26        .óá 31 .âã 96 21:34
 To   : David Johnston
 Subj : Klingons
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 DJ>Yes it does.  Starfleet has repeatedly misrepresented both
 DJ>it's own
 DJ>nature and the nature of the society it represents.  Perhaps
 DJ>the most
 DJ>obvious example is the Starfleet claim that it is not a
 DJ>military
 DJ>organisation, but their claim to have eliminated poverty is
 DJ>equally
 DJ>specious.

 DJ>--- PCBoard (R) v15.21/100
 DJ> * Origin: Freddy's Place - Edm. AB - 33.6K (403) 413-3460
 DJ>(1:342/14)

Butting into your conversation with a note of present day misrepresentation, if
anyone would be interested.

The Commission on Presidential Debates will be deciding by September 15 or so
who will be invited to the debates this year. Their main criteria is whether a
candidate has a "realistic" chance of winning, with the commission deciding what
is realistic. This rule would allow them to exclude Ross Perot who, although I
don't fancy his politics, got 19% of the vote last time.

I'm more interested in hearing from Harry Browne, the Libertarian candidate.
He'll be on all 50 ballots and, I think, deserves to voice his ideas.

The commission is allegedly non-partison, but the co-chairs have haven't changed
in 9 years. One used to head the Republican National Committee. The other used
to head the Democratic National Committee.

Anyone interested can write to Commission on Presidential Debates 601 13th St NW
Ste 310S Washington DC 20005 or email debates96@usa.pipeline.com.

Sorry for the intrusion....
--- RA 1.11+/GEcho 1.02+
 * Origin: Science Fiction BBS * Rosemount, MN * (612)423-7358 (1:282/26)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 56 of 584
 From : James Dixon                         1:2604/309      .óá 31 .âã 96 08:31
 To   : Stephen Simmons
 Subj : Re: Favourite Trek movie
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

SS> +------------------+James Dixon wrote:
SS>FG>   But ST-5 on the other hand....

SS>JD>Was THE most under-rated of all Trek movies simply because it Didn't
SS>JD>focus upon FX and space battles... Instead it did something which none
SS>JD>of the other films attempted: focused on the Big Three, the
SS>JD>Kirk-Spock- McCoy relationship--just like in TOS...

SS>JD>But Todays Fans and of course the Non-Fan critics--didn't want to see
SS>JD>this... No, to them, SF films are FX and space battles NOT about the
SS>JD>characters... So, momentum interjected By the critics contributed to
SS>JD>this film being a flop...

SS>   I agree in general, but not in specifics.  IMHO, this WAS the
SS>   apparent intent of the film, but it kept falling short of that
SS>   goal.  The characters frequently struck me as being washed out
SS>   shadows of their old selves.  Despite my very strong
SS>   appreciation for the story in #6, the same is frequently true
SS>   there (with the notable exception of Sulu).

I tend to think this is because of the excessive editing that was
supposedly done on the film... There's apparently a lot missing (Though
I'm sure that Most of the background present in the excellent
novelization was entirely the author's imagination)... ST V is The
shortest of all the Trek movies, something like 90 minutes as opposed to
the 2 hour running time of most other Trek films...

Washed out shadows of their former selves...Well, in ST VI what really
struck me about the characters was their dialog: both ST II and VI had
the same director, and if you listen to the "filler" dialog each
character is given in each of these two films you'll see a striking
similarity... I got struck with this deja vu feeling the first time I
saw ST VI, it was until after I had it on tape that I was able to pin it
down...


 * OLXWin 1.00a * Creation: Soon to be only Official Canon conventions!


--- WM v3.10/93-0747
 * Origin: Plain Brown Wrapper BBS-Cresskill NJ.(201)569-6685  (1:2604/309)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 57 of 584
 From : James Dixon                         1:2604/309      .óá 31 .âã 96 08:37
 To   : Patrick Duda
 Subj : Favourite Trek movie of a
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

PD>-> Two different series... I'm sure that's one of the problems today:
PD>-> too much Trek around...that the quality's been watered down...

PD> Well they should have two different production crews, it would be
PD>competitive.

Comparing the writing and characterization of Voyager to DS9, I'm
beginning to believe that they do have two different production crews!


 * OLXWin 1.00a * Excelsior Class: Space Control Ship/Battleship/Heavy Cruiser


--- WM v3.10/93-0747
 * Origin: Plain Brown Wrapper BBS-Cresskill NJ.(201)569-6685  (1:2604/309)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 58 of 584
 From : James Dixon                         1:2604/309      .óá 31 .âã 96 09:04
 To   : Demian Katz
 Subj : Re: 1984 flick
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

DK>> Has anybody seen the movie 1984? If so, was it true to the book?

DK>There were actually two versions...  I've heard the 1950s version
DK>was pretty bad and the 1984 version was good, but I haven't seen
DK>them myself.

I've only seen the 1984 version myself, and found it pretty dark and
dreary...but then again it's supposed to be dark and dreary...


 * OLXWin 1.00a * If ST V is "NonCanon" then ST VII should be "MegaNonCanon"


--- WM v3.10/93-0747
 * Origin: Plain Brown Wrapper BBS-Cresskill NJ.(201)569-6685  (1:2604/309)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 59 of 584
 From : Patrick Duda                        1:218/801       .óá 31 .âã 96 20:28
 To   : James Dixon
 Subj : Klingons
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12  91-0018

-> PD>chinese klingons?
->
-> Well, not to us analyze-it-down-to-the-nuts-and-bolts Treknical
-> fans... There are several explanations circulating ranging from the
-> idea that

 Treknology is fun but I certainly wouldn't spend my nights awake
explaining it.

-> TOS, the more humanoid faction was in power and shortly before the
-> first film there was a purge and the ridgeheads took control of the

 Wasn't there a mention someplace in TNG about a small, dangerous
klingon faction expelled from the homeworld, which had a fine stock of
weapons (bird of preys) and was going around with the BOPs causing
trouble for the ridgehead klingons? Weren't they also exploring a
possible alliance with the romulans? This could be an explanation for
the pale klingons.

-> races supposedly have them, but in the TOS Klingons they are far less
-> pronounced and hair neatly grows over them... But going by "Blood
-> Oath"

  I would expect many sub-species of klingons, as well as vulcans,
andorians, etc. There should be no strict color scheme, although as we
may see on Vulcan, there may be a dominant color (as most of Vulcan is
REALLY HOT, although perhaps Spock's clan is from temples or some other
thing protected underground)

--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12
 * Origin: Star Tech Diamond Bar, CA 909-396-4227 714-257-1175  (1:218/801.0)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 60 of 584
 From : Josh Hill                           1:388/9         .óá 31 .âã 96 15:52
 To   : David Johnston
 Subj : Independence Day (bel
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
I'll talk about whatever you want to talk about. I don't receive ANY
mail and when I do it is usually over some thing stupid.

--- TriToss (tm) Professional 10.0 - #184
 * Origin: By Appointment Only, 817-756-1032, Waco TX (1:388/9.0)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 61 of 584
 From : Roy Stevens                         1:108/205       .åò 29 .âã 96 21:58
 To   : Roelof Otten
 Subj : BY FORCE OF ARMS
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
RO>Hello Roy!

RO>Thursday August 15 1996, Roy Stevens writes to David Johnston:

RO> RS> So what do ya think of Babylon 5's government?  Currently it's an
RO> RS> out-and-out military dictatorship. What Sheridan says is law.

RO>Of course it is, B5 is a military outpost, with all consequenes of that.

Ah, but it's not just a military outpost any more.  Do you really think
Sheridan will take orders from President Clark?


 * SLMR 2.1a * "Toss me that bottle of nitroglycerine."

--- TMail v1.31.5
 * Origin: MultiSystem * Cincinnati, OH * 513-231-7013 * (1:108/205)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 62 of 584
 From : Roy Stevens                         1:108/205       .åò 29 .âã 96 22:00
 To   : Jeff Hancock
 Subj : JAPANESE SF
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
JH>BL>funny animals with super powers. No more silly than The Tick, for

JH>SPOOOOOON!

JH>Did they ever get around to showing new episodes?  I quit watching after a
JH>while... been months now, I think.

Not yet.  They're not even showing re-runs any more.  Just a
"Tick-Watch" every now and then.

You might try Earthworm Jim from WB.  It's rather good too.
(If you get cable, it's on WGN Sun morning 11:30am)

 * SLMR 2.1a * I'm an influential person, gravitationally speaking.

--- TMail v1.31.5
 * Origin: MultiSystem * Cincinnati, OH * 513-231-7013 * (1:108/205)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 63 of 584
 From : Roy Stevens                         1:108/205       .åò 29 .âã 96 22:02
 To   : Mark Jones
 Subj : CGI TREK (GLOAT!)
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
MJ>   [And by the way, given what we can do *now* with computer graphics, the
MJ>video images of President Clark discussing his assassination of his successo
MJ>President Santiago, in Babylon 5 would hold no import.  The government would
MJ>denounce them as lies--and probably would be believed by most people.]

They discussed that point on the show.  Appearently the transmission is
marked with some kind of code just to make sure fake transmissions can't
be sent.

 * SLMR 2.1a * BIG BANG: First there was nothing... then it exploded

--- TMail v1.31.5
 * Origin: MultiSystem * Cincinnati, OH * 513-231-7013 * (1:108/205)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 64 of 584
 From : Roy Stevens                         1:108/205       .åò 29 .âã 96 22:10
 To   : Mark Jones
 Subj : BY FORCE OF ARMS
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
MJ>   We also don't know that "Sheridan's word is law."  He may well be adherin
MJ>to the UCMJ (Uniform Code of Military Justice) or its equivalent, and/or any
MJ>other operational guidelines issued *before*
MJ>the government back on earth went fascist.

'Course it is.  He was the one that decided whether to hear out Bester
or just blow up his space ship (without a trial).  He was the one who
decided to use a telepath to force information out of a person (without
a trial) -- something Psi Corp has rules against.

MJ>   And in any case, as you said, B5 is a government installation.  That's wh
MJ>the supreme cheese there is a *military* officer....

True enough.  But when a military officier decides that he will no
longer obey the civilian authorities, it became a dictatorship.
Don't get me wrong though -- I think Sheridan is in the right so far.
Looking forward to hearing the Shadow's side though :)


 * SLMR 2.1a * The opinions expressed above do not reflect  yada-yada-ya

--- TMail v1.31.5
 * Origin: MultiSystem * Cincinnati, OH * 513-231-7013 * (1:108/205)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 65 of 584
 From : Bobby Rissler                       1:270/435       .óá 31 .âã 96 20:49
 To   : Bill Hedrick
 Subj : Re: Favourite Trek Movie
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 BR>   Star Trek IV made more money than all the other original series
 BR> movies except for Star Trek I.  ST4 made a little over a million
 BR> dollars and the first one made about 1.5 million dollars.  Thats
 BR> really not a whole lot of money now, but it was back in the 60's.

 BH> Ahh, no it wasn't, also your figures are way off
 BH>  as is your idea that these movies were made in the 60s

  What exactly are the figures then.  I got these at a Star trek convention by
one of the production staff of the show.  And sorry, they were made a little
after the 60's.  The show was in the 60's though.


--- Maximus 3.01
 * Origin: The Good News BBS  Bowmansville, PA (1:270/435)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 66 of 584
 From : Bobby Rissler                       1:270/435       .óá 31 .âã 96 23:26
 To   : James Dixon
 Subj : Re: Favourite Trek movie
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

FG>   But ST-5 on the other hand....

 JD> Was THE most under-rated of all Trek movies simply because it Didn't
 JD> focus upon FX and space battles... Instead it did something which none
 JD> of the other films attempted: focused on the Big Three, the Kirk-Spock-
 JD> McCoy relationship--just like in TOS...

 JD> But Todays Fans and of course the Non-Fan critics--didn't want to see
 JD> this... No, to them, SF films are FX and space battles NOT about the
 JD> characters... So, momentum interjected By the critics contributed to
 JD> this film being a flop...

  I agree, a lot of critics are probably not fans of star trek.  They then give
the movie a poor rating, this then directly affects the amount of people that go
to see the movie.


--- Maximus 3.01
 * Origin: The Good News BBS  Bowmansville, PA (1:270/435)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 67 of 584
 From : Bobby Rissler                       1:270/435       .óá 31 .âã 96 23:29
 To   : All
 Subj : Douglas Adams
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
  I was wondering if anyone else has read any books by Douglas Adams.  The best
know book that he has written is entitled The Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy.
I thought this was a really good book.  There are many other books in the series
that were also good.


--- Maximus 3.01
 * Origin: The Good News BBS  Bowmansville, PA (1:270/435)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 68 of 584
 From : Todd Sullivan                       1:202/720.3     .óá 31 .âã 96 21:50
 To   : David Johnston
 Subj : Klingons
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Reports from the Interior indicate that David Johnston leaked the following to
Phill Ash, re: Klingons

 ->> -> Duras, leaders of the High Council would sooner lie to the ->
 ->> populus than to have to justify their "honor."
 ->> PD> But you forget Duras is not 'himself'. And if the leader is
 ->> taking PD> his people astray, can you take that as thecount of the
 ->> whole species?
 ->>       My specific reference for that attack was the "Duras is busy
 ->>       rewriting history" sequence in "Unification ptI"... I,
 ->>       personally would like them to establish that Duras *has always*
 ->>       been a changeling... but, no doubt, the real Duras will step
 ->> out

 DJ> That would be rather unlikely given that Duras predates the Dominion's
 DJ> discovery of the Feds and the Klingons.

<Sarcasm Mode ON>

Duras has been dead for 7 years.

Perhaps you mean Gowron?

<Sarcasm Mode OFF>

Todd Sullivan

... "Nick, think of the paperwork if you drop him!" --Don Schanke

-*- ASTG 1.9

--- Spot 1.3a Unregistered
 * Origin: Todd's Spot in the Continuum (1:202/720.3)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 69 of 584
 From : Frank Swarbrick                     1:104/825       .óá 31 .âã 96 19:09
 To   : James Dixon
 Subj : Homeboys In Outer Splech!
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12  92-0022
On 08-29-96  20:23, shipwrecked and comatose, James Dixon said:

 JD> I beat ya to it, posted up a similar message the other day here... UPN
 JD> simply Can't get any trashier! Homeboys looks almost racist (then
 JD> again all the other programming that night on that channel all seemed
 JD> to be aimed at the same group!), not counting how idiotic it was...

Racist in what way?  Anti-black or pro-black?  (Yes, I'm being
sarcastic.)

Anyway, I didn't see it (was watching a real show, "Pride and
Prejudice," instead), so I'll save any comments until I do.

 JD> As for James Doohan starring... Well, I Hope it was just a one-shot
 JD> one-episode cameo... I still don't think he can get as low as Nichelle
 JD> Nichols backing the Psychotic Network...

He's apparently a recurring character.

        Frank

... No one can hear when you're Screaming in Digital!
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12
 * Origin: The Bailey Information Exchange BBS, 28.8k v.fc  (1:104/825.0)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 70 of 584
 From : Michel Fortin                       1:167/150       .åò 29 .âã 96 22:38
 To   : Patrick Duda
 Subj : Independence Day
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
     *      De: Patrick Duda                A: Michel Fortin       *
     *   Sujet: Independence Day         Date: 28 Aug 96, 4:32 PM  *
     * Section: [FIDO]-SCI.FI & FANDOM                             *

    Patrick,

-> Don't you see? That was the alien's weakness: they tought of
-> everything but when they came to earth they used Macs as onboard
-> computers. Both had OS7.x something. Ounce you know that the rest is

PD>   Oooohhhh. Yeah I see. That's a heck of a marketing deal. Do you
PD> think Apple charges them extra for exportation costs?

     The only thing they ask for is to have a colored apple in the
toilets. Hey! don't ask me why, I don't have a clue!

PD>   I'd like to see the bridge of the alien ship, and on the huge
PD> monitor when they're setting off for earth it says "Invaild System
PD> Disk, Insert another and try again" and the alien leader takes off
PD> it's hat and smacks the pilot with it.

     You're on to semething here... I also see a 'worst case scenario':
they leave the home planet, get to earth, everything is fine and is done
on 'automatic interstellar pilot' (also called auto-pilot by insiders),
and then, suddenly, they realized some bozo forgot the mouse back home.
Stuck in orbit.... HARGHHHH...

                                   Michel

---  Xenolink 1.981,  XQwk 1.6  [REG 10068]
 * Origin: Le Club Amiga Rive-Sud(CARS), Montreal,PQ(514)335-4076 (1:167/150)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 71 of 584
 From : Jeff Hancock                        1:3600/7        .åò 29 .âã 96 18:09
 To   : Patrick Duda
 Subj : Japanese SF
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

PD>-> Hacked... Clash of the Bionoids.  Or maybe G-Force/Battle of the
PD> I haven't seen enough anime to vote, but i'd second that nomination
PD>for hacked.

Well my problem is that I haven't seen much that's bad.  ;-)

Maybe we should go ahead and start a vote for the best, or at least,
favorite... in various categories, of course.  And even then, dunno
about you, but I find it hard to narrow down.  ;)

One of my early favorites was "You're Under Arrest", volume one.  It's
probably the most-watched of my commercial tapes, followed by Cat Girl
Nuku Nuku and Dirty Pair: Project Eden.  Oh, and some of the Ranma 1/2
tapes.  Of the fansubs, the only one so far that's compelled me to go
back and watch it again, even when I had other things to watch, was the
Sailor Moon R movie.

But still, there's hardly a tape on my shelf I wouldn't enjoy seeing
again and again.  It's just that I keep getting so many new ones in. ;)
I think perhaps one of the subconscious reasons I started offering
fansubs may have been to have an excuse to watch them again (while
copying) without the guilt over the titles yet to be seen. ;)

PD>-> I'm not sure what level of "realistic" Patrick means, it could
PD>->just be over SM telling a long story in pieces rather than just
PD> I mean they pick up boulders without even a cheep superpower to
PD>compensate, and slam doors off hinges and re-hang them, etc etc. Just

And this is done "seriously", or strictly in a comedy sense?

I mean, you see similar gags in some anime, like how a kawaii girl can
almost always find a huge mallet to whack an annoying guy over the head
with, or how the human body sometimes seems to contain endless gallons
of blood, or how some girls' tear ducts resemble water fountains.

PD>they treat it as a dramatic series by putting feeble plot twists in
PD>and other 'suspense' things. Sure it's a kids show but if the
PD>begginings are like this what's the rest look like?

Don't ask me, I haven't seen it.  ;)  But the real point is, does it
tell an entertaining story?  And is it internally self-consistant?

PD>Unlike startrek DS9 or voyajerk it's sequential. There are only one
PD>or two eps. that can be seen out of sequence without noticing it,
PD>although most of DS9 and Voyajerk can be seen that way, with the
PD>exception of stuff like 'Defiant' and officier cahnges. There's no
PD>continutiy to the ST universe anymore.

There is some, it's just rather subtle sometimes; you have to be paying
attention.  I've already been whacked over the head once about that, so
maybe you'll get the same. ;)

Although, Voyager doesn't seem to have much, and there is a certain
"sameness" to most all of the episodes of either.

PD> You know what? IO saw the 'worf the dictator' ds9 ep last night, and
PD>I was watching it, and I looked at the clock and over a half-hour had
PD>passed and I realized pretty much nothing had happened. It's lame,
PD>boring. Only the last 7 minutes was good. The rest was junk, esp.
PD>with the cheep writing for the 'other-world' characters.

I don't remember that one specifically, but I wonder, was the last seven
minutes good because the other 38 minutes were simply building up to
that?  Or could you have watched JUST the seven minutes and gotten the
same enjoyment out of them?

-=-
 * Crazy-J * "Who gave you the nerve to get killed here?"

--- SLMAIL v3.5C  (#1540)
 * Origin: Robotech  -=-Fansubbed anime available upon request-=- (1:3600/7)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 72 of 584
 From : Jeff Hancock                        1:3600/7        .åò 29 .âã 96 19:50
 To   : Brion Lienhart
 Subj : Japanese SF
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

BL> -JH>Okay, what IS the worst anime?  Separate categories for dubbed,
BL>I don't think any of us who haven't been to Japan have seen the worst
BL>anime, it probably never makes it over here. Remember Sturgeon's Law:

You're probably right, although one would think someone would have
brought it over anyway just to make fun of. ;)

BL>90% of everything is crap. Unless you're a real mondo-fanatic, you
BL>only see the stuff that somebody thought was good enough to spend the
BL>time and trouble to sub/dub. I'm sure they've got stuff over there

That much is true, but it also depends on the somebody.  Certainly
you're limited in the commercial arena, because they have to try and
*sell* it.

(I heard a depressing, but probably true, claim once by someone at one
of the companies that commercially subs/dubs anime: "If it shows blood,
double the sales.  If it shows breasts, triple the sales.  If it shows
bloody breasts, quadruple the sales".  I may be remembering it slightly
wrong, but it was along those lines.)

As far as the fan market goes, there's no telling, but it is true that
someone had to like it enough to take the trouble to sub it. ;-)
But some people offer "raw", unsubbed, titles, in some cases taped
directly off of television with commercials intact.  (and talk about
strange! ;)  So some of the bad has a chance to make it, even if only to
make fun of.

BL>that makes Power Rangers look like Masterpiece Theatre.

Perhaps.  I tend to think that the people involved in the anime industry
respect their work a little too much to put out completely awful sludge
that no one could possibly like.  ;)  Which is not to say that it might
not appeal to a fairly small percentage of the population.

But hey, someone out there is still watching Power Rangers, aren't they?
;)
-=-
 * Crazy-J * APOL error: Replace persona & fire any neuron to continue

--- SLMAIL v3.5C  (#1540)
 * Origin: Robotech  -=-Fansubbed anime available upon request-=- (1:3600/7)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 73 of 584
 From : Jeff Hancock                        1:3600/7        .ÿò 30 .âã 96 21:30
 To   : Emilio Ares
 Subj : Anyone know about upcomin
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

EA> JH>before that alien race showed up to give them star-faring
EA>You mean the guys with the five arms that if indoctrinated early
EA>enough in their life cycle become very good slaves?  I can't remember

I think so.  They were vegetarians, which didn't help the Kzin attitude.

But the question of how such a barbaric race survived to form such a
civilization apparently still persists, so we get this new novel to
explain it all.  <g>

Of course, one could ask nearly the same question of the Klingons, as
others have mentioned recently.

EA>Time to go to Walden books again.

Maybe it's out by now.
-=-
 * Crazy-J * "Your Tagline is so cute!!!  Gimmie!  Gimmie!!!" - Azusa

--- SLMAIL v3.5C  (#1540)
 * Origin: Robotech  -=-Fansubbed anime available upon request-=- (1:3600/7)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 74 of 584
 From : Jeff Hancock                        1:3600/7        .ÿò 30 .âã 96 21:52
 To   : Patty Moniz
 Subj : Japanese SF
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

PM> JH> Oh, hello Patty!  Good to see you here!
PM> Hi Jeff!  =)

Do you think we could drag Mr. Wills in here along with us?  ;-)

PM> PM>... Moon..Spiral..(WHACK! Oops, sorry Rei!)HEADACHE! Er, I mean
PM> JH> Bah-hah-hah-haaa!  Where exactly did *this* little gem come
PM> I found it in a message a while ago.  Someone was describing some of

Oh, I thought it might have been a fan parody, or even something from
the original.  They did have a warped sense of humor at times, at least
from a few of the original eps that I've seen.

I hear in one episode they visit an anime studio.  ;)

Another weird one was "Here is Greenwood".  Someone showed up who said
she was a manga artist, and wanted two of the character to model for her
work.  The subtitler thought that the character _was_ the real-life
artist who drew the original manga the anime was based on!  Kind of a
self-referential causality loop of sorts, definitely odd.

PM>the... stranger...attacks, and came up with it.  I _had_ to use it.

There are definitely some strange attacks in a lot of fantasy anime
series.  I'm still waiting to find out if Peach Wedding is truly as
silly as advertised: "Saint Lip Liner Lilly Rainbow!"???

Another one I always think of is Combustable Campus Guardress.  One
character had these "cute" attacks, like the "Teenie Birdie Attack", and
something else involving kittens or puppies.  One magical mother had the
"Textured Noodle Attack", and there was a whole running battle through a
group of store-owners whose attacks all involved their personal trade in
some way.  Even the porno shop owner. ;> (or was it an adult bookstore?)

PM>^_^ I still can't get over "Moon Gorgeous Meditation", and "Venus
PM>Love and Beauty Shock!"

Yeeks!  I saw the latter in a tagline, from the SuperS season?  What
about the first one?

Still doesn't compare to the "Star Gentle Uterus" though.  <G>

PM> JH> I swear she could out-spin a washer/dryer during that little move.
PM> It scares me when she twirls that scepter around.  You almost expect

She's the tops!  ;)

PM>her to knock herself out. ^_^

If the attack move took place in real-time, it probably would.

PM>... "Uh, power of web shooters, get real sticky!"-Spiderman

<chuckle>  <snort>  <snigger>  <choke>  HAAHAHAHAHAH!

-=-
 * Crazy-J * "What's that Mughi?! Yuri's caught in the train tracks?!"

--- SLMAIL v3.5C  (#1540)
 * Origin: Robotech  -=-Fansubbed anime available upon request-=- (1:3600/7)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 75 of 584
 From : Jeff Hancock                        1:3600/7        .óá 31 .âã 96 17:51
 To   : Henry Triplett
 Subj : Japanese SF
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

HT> PM> And who's the Sailor Moon fan?
HT>Well, Jeff Hancock to name one.  A frequent poster on this echo.

With the caveat that I do *not* like what happened to the American
version of the show, what little I've seen of it.  ^_^

Recently watched episodes 5-8, of which the first three were entirely
skipped in the Americanized version.  Episode five had some violence,
but I think they could have cut it out and used dialogue to get around
it (would you believe Shingo kicked Luna across the room?).  I still
don't see what was wrong with number six, unless an audiotape company
was a sponsor.  ;)  But it was a rather touching story, and she
apparently pulled it off without any help from Tuxedo Kamen; I don't
remember him coming in for a save.

As a matter of fact, in episode five Luna was telling her she shouldn't
rely on someone showing up to save her, and she did just fine by
herself.  She did dream about Tux though, and the rose was sparkling;
maybe that's where that "glowing" blurb came from?

Seven couldn't have been adapted though; the far right would have had a
cow and kittens at what Umino did, being shown on a "kiddie cartoon".
And that's not even mentioning the bathtub scene!  It's also kind of too
bad, because I think Usagi learned, or started to learn, a rather
important lesson about fame and stardom; without hitting the viewer over
the head with it either.  Not that it was exceptionally *subtle*, but it
was no "Sailor Moon Says" either.

-=-
 * Crazy-J * Nietzche is pietzche, but Sartre is smartre.

--- SLMAIL v3.5C  (#1540)
 * Origin: Robotech  -=-Fansubbed anime available upon request-=- (1:3600/7)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 76 of 584
 From : Jeff Hancock                        1:3600/7        .óá 31 .âã 96 17:59
 To   : Patrick Duda
 Subj : Macross 7
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

PD>-> Interesting.  Wish I'd heard more about it.  How does it fit into
PD>->the Macross continuity?
PD> Well, it's: MacrossII, then Macross PLus (in which the fighters used
PD>in M7 are prototyped, both are used ultimately), then M7. It's all

Yeah, I heard somewhere about one of the series essentially being about
two test pilots competing for the love of a woman, and testing out some
new fighters in the process.  Didn't remember which Macross it was,
though.

PD>-> Not too much surprise there... happens to quite a few anime
PD>->series, although they're usually quite hard to find unless you know
PD> True. Even a lot of the popular ones seem like they're non-existant.

I heard very lately that one Japanese company plans to change that, and
they're going to start bringing some anime and videogame soundtracks
more into the mass-market.  . . . Just checked the message.  I suppose
the moderator would consider it advertising to just post the whole
thing, but it sounds rather interesting.  You should already be able to
find soundtracks for Lodoss War, Ira: Zeiram, Macross II, and some games
like Tekken and Ridge Racer.  In the future there should be soundtracks
for New Dominion Tank Police, Video Girl Ai, Here is Greenwood, Megazone
23, and others.

PD>Of course looking at some of those tables at AniCon96 (as seen in the
PD>sci-fi channels clips of it) would make one drool with anime stuff!
PD> Is this what the trekkers feel at trek conventions....? ;)

I imagine so.  Some day I'll have to try a 'con.  The nearest one I know
of is Necronicon, down in Tampa, FL.  But I think that the new B5 eps
will be airing by then and I don't know if I want to trust the timer.
<g>

PD> So far the 4th annual festival of anime has been really great.
PD>The airing of Gall Force was terrific, like watching the LD. Roujin Z

I've heard some negative comments about the dubbing.  Which figures. ;)

Too bad I don't get the SF channel.
-=-
 * Crazy-J * "My only enemy is me... And my old girlfriend... And..."

--- SLMAIL v3.5C  (#1540)
 * Origin: Robotech  -=-Fansubbed anime available upon request-=- (1:3600/7)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 77 of 584
 From : Patrick Duda                        1:218/801       .cê 01 .åí 96 16:22
 To   : Frank Swarbrick
 Subj : V
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12  91-0018

-> I can see no reason to dis any of the shows without even seeing the
-> pilot.  You really have no idea how good or bad they're going to be.

 Well I certainly am not going to boycott them alreadY! I'm just giving
my preseason picks... based on what I _have_ seen. It's something to
talk about. What do you think they'll be like?
  Millenium looks awesome, hopefully it'll take over for a sagging
Xfiles.

-> Well, if you've when watching the V series you'll see that it really
-> isn't all that good, and doesn't live up to any potential it may
-> have.

 But i'm _not talking_ about what they are as far as writing goes. V
sucks compared to ALien Nation any day for writing. But if you had two
teams of writers with the same abilities which show would be able to go
farther and have more lifespan? V, of course.

--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12
 * Origin: Star Tech Diamond Bar, CA 909-396-4227 714-257-1175  (1:218/801.0)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 78 of 584
 From : Patrick Duda                        1:218/801       .óá 31 .âã 96 20:14
 To   : Bobby Rissler
 Subj : Favourite Trek movie of a
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12  91-0018

>  Why does everyone hate that one the most.  I though it was the best one.
>It was funny when spock tried to swear.  I think it was also cool when

   It had a lot of funny moments, but to me the movie as a whole just has
   a totally 'un-trek' like attitude. Kinda like it's a 'monty-python' trek.
    I think perhaps it was a bit of culture-shock, since it totally goes
    out of the typical trek sphere, there are no real familiar latches
    to hold on to. No Enterprise, no old crew, no klingons to deal with,
    etc. etc.
---
 * MikeMayl v1.0 * (D)inner not ready:  (A)bort (R)etry (P)izza

--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12
 * Origin: Star Tech Diamond Bar, CA 909-396-4227 714-257-1175  (1:218/801.0)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 79 of 584
 From : Don Bach                            1:3632/65       .óá 31 .âã 96 19:06
 To   : Brion Lienhart
 Subj : Japanese SF
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 BL>
 BL> p.s. I saw your other message, Gargoyles is pretty
 BL> good. Another good one is Darkwing Duck, about a Duck
 BL> Defender of the Night (Batman parody), and funny
 BL> animals with super powers. No more silly than The Tick, for instance.
 BL>

The kids today are very fortunate to have such high quality cartoons!

My generation (late BB) was fortunate too!

My children (ages 2-11) have either Cartoon Network or Nick on almost
constantly.

Late last year, my son selected the Sci-Fi channel for his before school fare.
They were playing stuff like the Ewoks (horrible theme song early on) and Star
Wars (the robots with later masters).

Currently, the before school shows are Weinerville and Beatlejuice.  On
Weinerville, they are showing cartoon cuts like the Couragous Cat, which has a
copyright of 1960 and Bat Fink.  I remember these from my youth.  Both are sort
of Batman takeoffs.

On Nick, I remember a Ren & Stimpy where they are cruising around space and
crash land on a strange planet.  This planet smells.  They follow the smell and
find a pile of dirty socks.  "So thats where they've been"

The Cartoon Network shows new cartoons (pilots?) from Hanna-Barbara.  A lot are
SF orientated.  One I remember was a space rooster.  This rooster mated with a
chicken at a farm owned by an elderly couple.  The farm dog watched this and
knew something was up.  The chicken layed eggs which were speckled with red
spots, same as the space rooster's eyes.  The farmer's wife got the eggs for
breakfast.  When the dog noticed this, he was locked in the hen house by the
space rooster.  The farmer's wife fixed breakfast with the eggs.  The farmer ate
the eggs first and got really really sick.  The wife saw this and didn't eat the
eggs (fork was just about to her mouth).  The man painfully turned into a large
version of the space rooster.  Meanwhile, the dog is fighting with the original
space rooster, playing checkers and assorted games.  The dog destroys the
original and the new space rooster explodes.  The farmer's wife relaxed from
this in her rocking chair with the dog in her lap.  However, rats have eaten
some of the farmer's remains and have begun to exhibit red speckled eyes (dog is
freaking out).

The Sci-Fi Channel has an anime show on Saturday mornings.  I haven't watched it
yet as I am either asleep or really busy on Saturday mornings.

Don

--- Maximus 3.01
 * Origin: No Regrets, Clinton, MS (601)924-8247 9P-5A (1:3632/65)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 80 of 584
 From : James Dixon                         1:2604/309      .cê 01 .åí 96 20:37
 To   : Patrick Duda
 Subj : Klingons
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

PD>-> Well, not to us analyze-it-down-to-the-nuts-and-bolts Treknical
PD>-> fans... There are several explanations circulating ranging from the
PD>-> idea that

PD> Treknology is fun but I certainly wouldn't spend my nights awake
PD>explaining it.

I know, it's certainly not for everyone and I rarely come across
Trekkers who are as deeply into it as I am... Though this is mainly
because of the current trends of ignoring the past and accepting
anything and everything published in the 1990s...

PD>-> TOS, the more humanoid faction was in power and shortly before the
PD>-> first film there was a purge and the ridgeheads took control of the

PD> Wasn't there a mention someplace in TNG about a small, dangerous
PD>klingon faction expelled from the homeworld, which had a fine stock of
PD>weapons (bird of preys) and was going around with the BOPs causing
PD>trouble for the ridgehead klingons? Weren't they also exploring a
PD>possible alliance with the romulans? This could be an explanation for
PD>the pale klingons.

Nah, you're probably thinking of the renegade Klingons in "Heart of
Glory" and/or the Duras sisters seen in later seasons... These were
nothing more than modern-day Klingons opposed to the alliance with the
Federation...

PD>-> races supposedly have them, but in the TOS Klingons they are far less
PD>-> pronounced and hair neatly grows over them... But going by "Blood
PD>-> Oath"

PD>  I would expect many sub-species of klingons, as well as vulcans,
PD>andorians, etc. There should be no strict color scheme, although as we
PD>may see on Vulcan, there may be a dominant color (as most of Vulcan is
PD>REALLY HOT, although perhaps Spock's clan is from temples or some other
PD>thing protected underground)

Actually, going back to the old Medical Manual, conditions on Vulcan are
supposedly more uniform and harsh than those of Earth so Vulcans are
supposed to be more specialized and homogenous than than Earth-born
Humans... So there shouldn't be separate physical or racial
types--beyond breeding outside their own people of course (which I guess
would explain Tuvok)... The Vulcans are supposed to appreciate
differences and all, yet in TOS they were all pretty much clones...
Now this cross-breeding theme Really went wacko in TNG's time with all
the hybrids introduced (Klingon-Romulans, Klingon-Humans,
Romulan-Humans, Bajoran-Cardassians, etc.)... You'd think that any and
every combination was possible and that there was no such thing as
incompatibility! It's one of the problems I have with Star Trek
"realism"...


 * OLXWin 1.00a * The Fans keep Trek alive and CARE more for it than P'mount


--- WM v3.10/93-0747
 * Origin: Plain Brown Wrapper BBS-Cresskill NJ.(201)569-6685  (1:2604/309)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 81 of 584
 From : James Dixon                         1:2604/309      .cê 01 .åí 96 21:13
 To   : Dave Ewen
 Subj : Favourite Trek Movie Of A
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

DE>TS>I vote for Wrath of Khan.

DE>DE> That stunk. Was pointlessly violent. I vote for movie #1.

DE>DJ>Why is a pointless movie that has violence worse than one that doesn't?

DE>Oh, maybe seeing all the additional bad acting...?

It's not the acting, it's the Writing...

You get a writer who doesn't know beans about the Star Trek Universe
writing a Trek script, you add-in co-writers and producers who are
equally ignorant...and you end up with a mess which can only succeed if
it appeals to the non-Trekker masses...

This is where Trek's headed...in all its forms (movies, episodes,
novels)...



 * OLXWin 1.00a * }Paramount Pictures = The Ferengi Alliance{


--- WM v3.10/93-0747
 * Origin: Plain Brown Wrapper BBS-Cresskill NJ.(201)569-6685  (1:2604/309)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 82 of 584
 From : David Johnston                      1:342/14        .îí 02 .åí 96 00:07
 To   : Dave Ewen
 Subj : Favourite Trek Movie Of A
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
-> TS>I vote for Wrath of Khan.
->
-> DE> That stunk. Was pointlessly violent. I vote for movie #1.
->
-> DJ>Why is a pointless movie that has violence worse than one that
-> doesn't?
-> Oh, maybe seeing all the additional bad acting...?

I'm not following your reasoning.

--- PCBoard (R) v15.21/100
 * Origin: Freddy's Place - Edm. AB - 33.6K (403) 413-3460 (1:342/14)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 83 of 584
 From : Leman Russ                          1:2250/7        .cê 01 .åí 96 04:53
 To   : Owen E. Oulton
 Subj : Re: SOUND SUPRESSORS
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 The powder in a bullet does not, Ahem, fillthe entire shellcase and in fact
there is a lot of air inthe case.

>;[

--- DLG Pro v1.0/DLGMail
 * Origin: Sage's Tower - Amiga - (618) 259-1844 (1:2250/7)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 84 of 584
 From : Dave Ewen                           1:266/167       .îí 02 .åí 96 13:28
 To   : Roy Stevens
 Subj : B-5
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

PA> B5 doesn't try to make us believe that, in the FUTURE, Marines
PA> won't get haircuts  <G>

RS>Rangers (Marcus) don't seem to have to.

I'm trying to get up to speed on B-5. What are the Rangers doing? Seems
like they are some sort of secret.
---
 þ SLMR 2.1a þ Florida's flotsam leaves no tern unstoned.

 * Origin: Logan's Run Swedesboro,NJ USA 609-467-9649 (1:266/167)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 85 of 584
 From : Jeff Hancock                        1:3600/7        .cê 01 .åí 96 17:22
 To   : Michael Harper
 Subj : Japanese SF
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

MH> JH> Evidently you didn't get it... probably just as well, seeing as
MH> JH>how I had to revise a few things.
MH> That's okay. I got the thing from you in the surface mail... any
MH>changes, you can tell me...

I wind up changing it somewhat nearly every time I send out a copy.  ;)

As long as you've got the one with the "new" pricing structure (i.e.
7/11/14/etc, not $5 per), then the only other changes have to do with
adding titles.

Haven't removed anything yet, but I guess I'm going to have to drop some
or all of the Miyazaki films, since apparently the Disney rumors are
true.  My main problem is that I don't know *which* ones they bought the
rights to.  I'm almost positive that the Lupin film isn't one of them,
but some or all of the others are.

Other than that, just various additions as I get new tapes in, and
hopefully get them watched. ;)

MH> JH> Gah.  I may never learn to speak it.
MH> It's a bitch, but it can be done. If Connery can do it and still
MH>have a Scots accent, you can...

Sometimes I have trouble enough with my English.  <g>  It would be nice
if I had someone to talk to who could correct any mistakes; just so I
don't wind up learning the wrong pronunciation.

MH> See, that's my curse... I can never forget anything for long, no
MH>matter how hard I try... incidentally, if you'd like to see Armin and

I think I'd like a dose of that.  ;>

MH>mind immediately. Then there's DS9, with its villains, the Dominion.

I'd never thought to connect that with the Tank Police.

MH>And in an early TNG episode the Enterprise's sister ship was named
MH>the Yamato, although I think they had something else in mind there...

I understand it was named after the original Japanese battleship, just
as the anime version was.  (although I heard somewhere that the anime
version was supposed to *be* the original, just massively rebuilt)

MH> I saw pretty much every episode of _Star Blazers_ and a couple of
MH>original episodes of _Yamato_; anything Disney does to it is going to
MH>be just short of sacrilege...

The one bright spot is that I believe it's being funded by Disney but
put together by another company.  Toy Story managed to escape some of
the usual Disney tomfoolery, so SB might too.  But I wouldn't count on
it. ;-)

It's bad enough they're doing Starship Troopers.  What do you want to
bet that some day they'll turn their attention to the Dirty Pair?
-=-
 * Crazy-J * "Bother", said Pooh as Sheridan decompressed the airlock.

--- SLMAIL v3.5C  (#1540)
 * Origin: Robotech  -=-Fansubbed anime available upon request-=- (1:3600/7)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 86 of 584
 From : Jeff Hancock                        1:3600/7        .cê 01 .åí 96 17:27
 To   : Patrick Duda
 Subj : Realistic space scen
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

PD>->think that quite a bit of anime falls into the SF/Fantasy realm.
PD> I think some of the best stuff, though, like Sailor Moon doesn't fall
PD>into it, although there's always _some_ bit of tech in everything it

Magical girl superheroes?  If that isn't fantasy, what is?

I suppose one could make some claim to it being soft SF of a sort, at
least once in a while.  (certainly having a low-mass asteroid with
earth-normal gravity and atmosphere is typical of your bad SF movies ;)

Of course, if you take the approach of psychic powers being SF, then you
could conceivably justify it.  Properly utilized telekinesis can explain
away a *lot* of things.  Bits like the silly attack dances and phrases
are just mental crutches to help focus the power.  ;-)

-=-
 * Crazy-J * Check Six!  Six!  I said SIX!  LOOK BEHIND YOU, BONEHEAD!

--- SLMAIL v3.5C  (#1540)
 * Origin: Robotech  -=-Fansubbed anime available upon request-=- (1:3600/7)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 87 of 584
 From : Glenn Shaheen                       1:3600/7        .cê 01 .åí 96 10:32
 To   : James Dixon
 Subj : Favourite Trek movie of a
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

JD>The TOS Enterprise came closer to the exploration mark you know... But
JD>as for not sending the Enterprise out to explore because she's the
JD>flagship: this sounds like the justification for Kirk destroying the

        I didn't think that the original Enterprise was the flagship.

-=-
 * OLX 2.2 * No, stupid, infertility is not hereditary.

--- SLMAIL v3.5C  (#1540)
 * Origin: Robotech  -=-Fansubbed anime available upon request-=- (1:3600/7)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 88 of 584
 From : Frank Glover                        1:2613/477      .îí 02 .åí 96 20:43
 To   : Bobby Rissler
 Subj : Re: Favourite Trek movie of a
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

BR>   TS> Thanks for the reply. I think the worst was the
BR>   TS> "politically correct" one where they returned to save
BR>   TS> the whales.
BR>   TS> Ted
BR>
BR>    Why does everyone hate that one the most.  I though it was the best

   Not I. I'd say it might be second best, after ST-II.

BR>  one.  It was funny when spock tried to swear.  I think it was also
BR>  cool when spock mind-melded with the whale.  All the other times we
BR>  saw a vulcan mind-meld it was with another humanoid.

   The silicon-based Horta? The artificial intelligences of Nomad and V'ger?

   Frank


--- QuickBBS 2.85 (Beta-1) GoldBase
 * Origin: The Matrix Data Bank BBS, Rochester, Ny (1:2613/477)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 89 of 584
 From : Frank Glover                        1:2613/477      .îí 02 .åí 96 21:05
 To   : Stephen Simmons
 Subj : Re: Klingons
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

SS>  FG> Maybe not too different. I observed long ago (from the barroom
SS>  FG> brawl  in the Tribble episode, and Kirk and Kor arguing with the
SS>  FG> Organian, up to the Trek Universe as it is now) that judging by
SS>  our
SS>  FG> respective  histories, the main difference is that Earthers
SS>  *like* to
SS>  FG> fight, and  Klingons *love* to fight.
SS>
SS>  Have to agree with that assessment.  I think a contributing
SS>  factor to the confusion is that "Honor" is only half of the
SS>  Klingon ideal.  They also place a very large emphasis on "Glory".
SS>  Consider the Rite of Succession in TNG, for example.  The primary
SS>  consideration for choosing a successor seems to be weighing the
SS>  relative merits of the battles and accomplishments of Duras and
SS>  Gowron, with little or no discussion of their morals or honor.
SS>  Perhaps their honor is assumed to be beyond question, but perhaps
SS>  it is simply not deemed to be a significant prerequisite for the
SS>  job.  Further opinions?

   Probably right. Kor hinted at this, too, when it was clear that the Organians
wern't going to let a war start. "A shame, Captain...it would have been
glorious!" That is, Klingons go in assuming victory, but each one gets to
*prove* themselves individually, and this would have a major effect on their
status in the `New Galactic Order,' to coin a phrase. Lots of gutsy Klingons out
there who, through no fault of their own, just never have the chance to prove
it. Some may even `invent' some opprotunites (like the two Klingons who wanted
WOrf to help them commandeer the battle section of the Enterprise-D, and go kick
butt, even though there were no hostilites otherwise.) that fly in the face of
other concerns. Even Klingons can't ignore diplomacy...though they may view it
the same way Khan did. (War carried out by other means.)

  This starts to look like Niven's Kizinti, too. War as (among other things) a
chance for personal glory and post-war status. And you may even *get* the glory,
but in the end, your side keeps losing against humans....

    And this may be because humans in both universes (and Earth does seem to be
in charge of Federation strategy and tactics in the Trek Universe) are less
glory-oriented (though we still respect and award valor and gallantry), and more
victory-oriented than our adversaries. If `ho-hum' tactics that don't give much
of a chance for individual glory to be gained will work, we go that route.
Klingons (and Kizinti) see this as something akin to an unfair fight.....

   Frank


--- QuickBBS 2.85 (Beta-1) GoldBase
 * Origin: The Matrix Data Bank BBS, Rochester, Ny (1:2613/477)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 90 of 584
 From : Barton Paul Levenson                1:129/26        .îí 02 .åí 96 11:23
 To   : Scott Curry
 Subj : SF myth shattered...
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
I have read everything you mentioned and I stand by my views.

--- Maximus 3.01
 * Origin: SoundingBoard, Pittsburgh PA (1:129/26)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 91 of 584
 From : Emilio Ares                         1:379/1         .îí 02 .åí 96 22:49
 To   : Patrick Duda
 Subj : Re: V
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE 1.11+

-=> Quoting Patrick Duda to Frank Swarbrick <=-

 PD> But I mean, think of it like this. You have Alien Nation, where the
 PD> guys essentially have to deal with each other on earth, with only some
 PD> weird overlord guys making trouble, or you can have V, where you can
 PD> have saucerfuls of new technologies, new arenas of combat, plot twists
 PD> as new invaders come in and go out, and general flexibility on how the
 PD> show goes.
 PD> That's the key, one can change, the other can't. At least not without
 PD> changing the base premise of the series.

If they could only make a series based on Callahan's Crosstime Saloon by
Spider Robinson or maybe based on the Draco Tavern stories by Larry Niven.
There you get all the aliens and weirdness you can handle.  The only
problem I can foresee is the quality of the writing would go the way of
ST:V.

Emilio



... How many of you believe in telekinesis? Raise MY hands.
--- GEcho 1.11+
 * Origin: The Transporter Room - Online Doom! - 704/567-9513 (1:379/1)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 92 of 584
 From : Chris Dixon                         1:350/33        .îí 02 .åí 96 00:51
 To   : All
 Subj : New Star Wars Movies
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Has anyone heard anything about the new Star Wars Trilogy that's supposed to me
in the making?

--- Maximus 2.02
 * Origin: The PYRAMID bbs (1:350/33)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 93 of 584
 From : Henry Triplett                      1:106/564       .îí 02 .åí 96 11:07
 To   : JEFF HANCOCK
 Subj : Japanese SF
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

-=> Quoting Jeff Hancock to Henry Triplett <=-

 HT> PM> And who's the Sailor Moon fan?
 HT>Well, Jeff Hancock to name one.  A frequent poster on this echo.

 JH> With the caveat that I do *not* like what happened to the American
 JH> version of the show, what little I've seen of it.  ^_^

Tsk, tsk.  I understand that the esteemed creator, Naoko Takeuchi actually
*liked* the English dubs after she saw some of them.  8-)

 JH> it (would you believe Shingo kicked Luna across the room?).  I still

Who is Shingo?  And how rude!!

 JH> apparently pulled it off without any help from Tuxedo Kamen; I don't
 JH> remember him coming in for a save.

Sounds rare for the Sailor Moon that I know.  Not unknown, but rare.

 JH> As a matter of fact, in episode five Luna was telling her she
 JH> shouldn't rely on someone showing up to save her, and she did just fine

I doubt if Luna will have any luck convincing her of that. <g>

 JH> by herself.  She did dream about Tux though, and the rose was

That's her favorite dream, methinks.  8-)

 JH> sparkling; maybe that's where that "glowing" blurb came from?

 JH> Seven couldn't have been adapted though; the far right would have had
 JH> a cow and kittens at what Umino did, being shown on a "kiddie cartoon".

Worse than what he did with Haruna-sensei earlier?

 JH> And that's not even mentioning the bathtub scene!  It's also kind of

Bathtub scene?  I probably should be afraid to ask. <g>

Henry

... "Exciting, isn't it?" --Draal

___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20 [NR]
--- GEcho 1.00
 * Origin: Eat Flaming Death    Houston Texas    713-447-1927 (1:106/564)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 94 of 584
 From : Kay Shapero                         1:102/524       .îí 02 .åí 96 09:30
 To   : James Dixon
 Subj : Favourite Trek movie of a
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Aug 31 08:37>, James Dixon (1:2604/309) wrote to Patrick Duda:

 JD>Comparing the writing and characterization of Voyager to DS9, I'm
 JD>beginning to believe that they do have two different production
 JD>crews!

I'd be surprised if they didn't.  They may be related, but they're two different
shows.

--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 95 of 584
 From : Demian Katz                         1:2626/102      .cê 01 .åí 96 13:31
 To   : Frank Swarbrick
 Subj : Re: V
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
> Has anyone been watching V on the Sci-Fi Channel?  Last week they
> showed the original miniseries, followed by V: The Final Battle.  Now
> they're showing the series.

I don't have Sci-Fi, but I just rented the videos of V and V:TFB... :)

> Anyway, I didn't realize it as it had been a long time since I'd seen
> V, but Independance Day *majorly* ripped of this show!  Not that it
> didn't rip off a lot of old movies as well, as all the reviews love to
> point out, but it is more similar to V than any of these.  Of course
> movie reviewers seem to not watch television....  :-)  I suppose you
> could go on to say that V also ripped off those same movies, but
> hey...

I lost a lot of respect for Independence Day after seeing V.  Many
of the "new elements" which I thought made the film fairly unique
were stolen from V.

> I wouldn't say that V is brilliant, but I quite enjoyed both
> mini-series, and the series is fairly good as well.  I wonder if it

I thought (as far as TV sci-fi goes) the plot was fairly interesting,
the characters slightly more interesting than in similar shows/movies,
but the acting by most of the supporting cast brings the whole thing
down a bit.  It also seemed like they ran out of money half way through,
since in the first half of the first miniseries, most of the effects
were fairly impressive, but by the battle at the end, the ships looked
like they were cut out and glued on the film or something.

Demian

--- DB 1.58/005132
 * Origin: Castrovalva BBS  610-917-0380 (1:2626/102)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 96 of 584
 From : Demian Katz                         1:2626/102      .cê 01 .åí 96 13:35
 To   : Ken Mayes
 Subj : Re: Homeboys In Outer Splech!
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
> Somebody shoot me before I'm forced to watch another episode of
> UPN's Homeboys in Outer Space.

I only had to see the commercial to know this was something to avoid.
Looked like they took a lot of the gags from Red Dwarf, made them
tasteless and unfunny, and somehow made it into a show.  3rd Rock from
the Sun is one of the few American comedies I find amusing, but I'll
stay well away from the ripoffs. :)

--- DB 1.58/005132
 * Origin: Castrovalva BBS  610-917-0380 (1:2626/102)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 97 of 584
 From : James Dixon                         1:2604/309      .îí 02 .åí 96 09:06
 To   : Leman Russ
 Subj : Re: Klingons
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

LR> Personally I'd say yhre klingons have DEVOLVED from TOS. In TOS they could
LR>times behave in a respectable fashion.

LR> Witness "Day of the dove" in which Kang angerily roars "Were the screams of
LR>crew imaginary?" This showed that as a captain he cared about his people, an
LR>was deeply hurt to have them butchered under his command. Kind of like a goo
LR>human captain would be expected to feel.

LR> Also, when it was pointed out that he was being used, he threw down his swo
LR>saying "Only a fool fights in a burning house". Compassion for his crew, and
LR>wisdom. Not a bad man, after all.

LR> Asides from worf, TNG klingons seem to be a step down from TOS klingons.

Oh, I agree 100%... I've been saying much the same thing now for
years... TOS Klingons were soldiers, TNG Klingons are animal-warriors...
TOS Klingons were shrewd, deceitful, Clever adversaries and one could
believe that they controlled a space-faring interstellar empire... The
TNG bozos, on the other hand, have become more and more pathetic: these
guys do their best to growl, snarl, and try to act like savages in
space... They're so short-tempered and idiotic, a far cry from the TOS
Klingons--who Didn't Need head makeup...

TPTB still doesn't have the lobes to come right out and say that there
are two different Klingon races... They want us to believe that the TOS
and TNG Klingons are one and the same, that their change in physical
appearance is due entirely to inadequate funds in the 60s!

I can just imagine a third all-new generation of Trek in the 21st
Century with all-new Klingons who run around on all fours, topless,
barking at one another, with  7' tails and two heads... "They always
looked this way, just that back in the 20th Century the makeup
department didn't have these kinds of new resources for aliens!"...


 * OLXWin 1.00a * Creation: Soon to be only Official Canon conventions!


--- WM v3.10/93-0747
 * Origin: Plain Brown Wrapper BBS-Cresskill NJ.(201)569-6685  (1:2604/309)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 98 of 584
 From : James Dixon                         1:2604/309      .îí 02 .åí 96 09:15
 To   : Frank Swarbrick
 Subj : V
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

FS>Well, if you've when watching the V series you'll see that it really
FS>isn't all that good, and doesn't live up to any potential it may have.
FS>It's not terrible, but it's not anywhere near as good as Alien Nation.
FS>[Plenty of explosions, though.  :-)]

Personally, I don't know what anyone sees in either of the two series...

V was shoot em up nonsense where the goodies always won and, under close
analysis, was really far-fetched and corny... Take for instance the way
the little girl regenerated into an older woman in the series pilot...
And then there's the whole silly theme of these space lizards wearing
Human costumes and rubber masks--and not only being Attracted to us
Humans but Mating with us (and, as is accepted these days in TV SF,
there's no problem with Human-alien hybrids)! Then there was that
resistance alien who died early-on and was brought back later in the
series as his Brother (uh, right, just because an alien decides to wear
an Identical mask as a traitor, he's the alien's Brother!)... Then to
make things even more silly, the villainess Diana gets a boyfriend named
Charles--get it? Charles and Diana! Fans of the series of course tried
to justify all this by saying it was a Nazi Germany parallel...but I
don't think that can justify all those scenes of aliens gulping down
mice, birds, insects--anything they could get their hands on...

Alien Nation, on the other hand, hid behind race-relations themes...
It also blew the science at least as badly as V and pulled the same
gimmick which an even worse series (Something Is Out There, if
you can remember it!) pulled: adding more and more super-human gimmicks
to the aliens as the series progressed, including mystical bull
galore... I won't list them, because I'm running out of room here... But,
like V, I never cared for Any of the characters in this series... It was
a cop show with runaround episodes, mostly... And fell apart with such
things as the Newcomers' acidic reaction to salt (well, what's all this
about the aliens dating and having sex with Humans all the time, eh?
Human saliva and semen would Kill them!)...


 * OLXWin 1.00a * Excelsior Class: Space Control Ship/Battleship/Heavy Cruiser


--- WM v3.10/93-0747
 * Origin: Plain Brown Wrapper BBS-Cresskill NJ.(201)569-6685  (1:2604/309)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 99 of 584
 From : Bob Klahn                           1:234/2         .îí 02 .åí 96 22:51
 To   : Bill Clements
 Subj : BY FORCE OF ARMS
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 BC> From the desk of a cynical old man...

 BC> "How far would Moses have gone if he had taken a poll in Egypt?
 BC> What would Jesus Christ have preached if he had taken a poll in
 BC> the land of Israel? What would have happened to the Reformation if
 BC> Martin Luther had taken a poll? It isn't polls or public opinion
 BC> of the moment that counts. It is right and wrong and leadership."

 BC>                                               -- Harry S Truman

 BC> Posted 24 Aug 96 - Bob Klahn to Bill Clements
 BC>
 BK>>  One I always liked was, " A man should always be ready to shoot his
 BK>> own  dog."
 BC>
 BK>>  I know that was Heinlein, I think it was LL.
 BC>
 BC> "When the need arises--and it does--you must be able to shoot
 BC> your own dog. Don't farm it out--that doesn't make it nicer, it
 BC> makes it worse."
 BC>                                         -- Woodrow Wilson Smith

 I was sure it was RAH, got the wrong character, though.

 BC>> $5,000,000,000,000.00, five billion (1860) U.S. dollars,
 BC>
 BK>>  Is this an English billion? Or a typo?
 BC>
 BC> Excuse me $5,000,000,000.00 (typo) it's easy to get carried away
 BC> on the 0 key.

 Hey, a billion here, a billion there, pretty soon you're talking real
 money.

 BK>>  Liberating a human being from someone holding that person against his
 BK>> will  is not stealing.

 BC> Please remember that by legal definition the negroes that were
 BC> imported to the U.S. as slaves were chattels, tangible personal

 Which story was it where I learned the principle that the name is the
 thing. It's a principle of magic, not logic or reality. Definitions do not
 create reality.

 BC> property, not people. Appropriation of private or personal
 BC> property wether done by an individual or by a group of
 BC> individuals, including governments, without due compensation,
 BC> even when it's called Nationalization, is wrong.

 But not when the reality is there is not basis for ownership. After all,
 if it's a matter of definition then all you have to do is change the
 definition.

 BC> Public opinion, primarily that of political activists who had no
 BC> money invested in slaves, in the north was that the
 BC> aforementioned chattels were in fact people and that ownership of
 BC> people was wrong. This political activism eventually forced the
 BC> president to arbitrarily decree a change in the abovementioned
 BC> legal definition.
 BC>
 BC> Recap:
 BC>
 BC>   Declaring people to be property and trafficking in said property
 BC>   is wrong.

 BC>   Arbitrarily declaring legal property to be contraband and
 BC>   confiscating it, without due compensation, is wrong.

 The key word is, "arbitrarily." It was not arbitrary. The property was
 not, in fact property except in the eyes of the owners, certainly not in
 the eyes of the property.

 BC> Two wrongs, as has been noted historically, never make a right.
 BC> They can, and did, however make a war.

 Freeing people from slavery is not wrong.

 BC> The issue of slavery though it was pivotal certainly was not, as
 BC> has been taught in the public schools, the entire reason for The
 BC> War Between the States, The War to Preserve Slavery, The Great
 BC> War of Northern Aggression, The Civil War.

 It may well not have been the only reason, it was enough.

 BK>>  There was a lot of interest in your msg, but I think we've pushed
 BK>> this far  enough in this echo. If you get the debate echo I'd be happy
 BK>> to answer it  further there.

 BC> If you truly wish to continue this discussion, as the Debate
 BC> Echo is not available at this station, I am:

 BC>  rwc@ct.net

 I doubt either of us will come up with something to change the other's
 mind. The big advantage of a public forum is that it leaves an opening for
 some new idea, one that might actually persuade someone of something.

BOB KLAHN   bob.klahn@toltbbs.com

... (A)bort, (R)etry, (W)hack Monitor?
 * Silver Xpress V4.3P RB10275

--- FLAME v1.1
 * Origin: Telnet toltbbs.com or call 313-854-6001, Boardwatch #55 (1:234/2)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 100 of 584
 From : Mark Jones                          1:105/302.47    .pä 28 .âã 96 20:34
 To   : Phill Ash
 Subj : Klingons
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On (27 Aug 96) Phill Ash wrote to Patrick Duda...

 PA> My specific reference for that attack was the "Duras is busy
 PA> rewriting history" sequence in "Unification ptI"... I, personally
 PA> would like them to establish that Duras *has always* been a
 PA> changeling... but, no doubt, the real Duras will step out from
 PA> behind the curtain and help OUR BOYS win the day <sigh>

   I'll second that.

   <Sigh>

   I fully expect the "real" Duras to be rescued, and to help stop the
Klingons from going down the wrong path.  (After all, sweetness and
light must ultimately prevail, no matter how contrived the ending.)
   In the "real" universe, I'd expect the Klingons to kill the fake
Duras, install a new Top Dog and keep right on empire building.  A lot
of Klingons *like* the new, aggressive, expansionist policies--and the
fact that a changling was partially (or totally) responsible wouldn't
change that.

 PA> I think it's a trend that'd been "latched onto" by various
 PA> writers. The Cardassians were supposed to be DS9's klingon
 PA> equivolent... problem is the writers seem to think the audience
 PA> wants Klingons. Unfortunately, the contrary is true... the
 PA> audience wants an unpredictable villian (IMHO)

I don't think a predictable *goal* is a bad thing.  Galactic Conquest?
 Again?  That trick never works!  But the *means*, the schemes, the
cunning plans should be unpredictable, definitely.

In any case, I find almost *any* non-Federation species (or culture;
the two are indistinguishable, really, in Trek) vastly more
entertaining to watch than the Heroes (tm).


--- PPoint 1.78
 * Origin: Folcroft Sanitarium (hsmith@cure.com) (1:105/302.47)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 101 of 584
 From : Mark Jones                          1:105/302.47    .óá 31 .âã 96 20:03
 To   : James Dixon
 Subj : Favourite Trek movie
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On (27 Aug 96) James Dixon wrote to Frank Glover...

 JD> FG>   But ST-5 on the other hand....
 JD>
 JD> Was THE most under-rated of all Trek movies simply because it
 JD> Didn't focus upon FX and space battles... Instead it did
 JD> something which none of the other films attempted: focused on the
 JD> Big Three, the Kirk-Spock- McCoy relationship--just like in
 JD> TOS...

   Crap.  *I'm* a Trek fan.  And *I* thought it was crap.  And not
"because it didn't focus upon FX and space battles".  It was crap for
many, many reasons--most of them having to do with laughable dialogue,
laughable characterizations, lame plotting and other sins of bad
writing.

 JD> But Todays Fans and of course the Non-Fan critics--didn't want to see
 JD> this... No, to them, SF films are FX and space battles NOT about the
 JD> characters... So, momentum interjected By the critics contributed to
 JD> this film being a flop...

  This film wasn't killed by the critics--they simply said what most
of the non-critics who saw it *thought*:  it stank.


--- PPoint 1.78
 * Origin: Folcroft Sanitarium (hsmith@cure.com) (1:105/302.47)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 102 of 584
 From : Mark Jones                          1:105/302.47    .óá 31 .âã 96 20:10
 To   : Phill Ash
 Subj : Klingons
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On (28 Aug 96) Phill Ash wrote to Mark Jones...

 MJ> ....and the Federation lied to the Romulans about developing an
 MJ> improved cloaking device ("Pegasus"). Picard and company have all
 MJ> sworn to die rather than violate the Prime Directive...except
 MJ> when its absolutely convenient.

 PA>         Starfleet does not depict itself as a Gathering of Angels.  It
 PA>         does not hide behind a veil of lies in the name of "Honor".

   What show have *you* been watching?  They're constantly
congratulating themselves on being superior to historical earth
cultures (and to most alien cultures, for that matter).

 MJ> Dr. Crusher, noble to the end, has absolutely *no* moral
 MJ> compunctions about using mind and memory-altering technology on
 MJ> aliens whenever it is convenient.

 PA> Dr. Crusher??? Pulaski in "Pen Pals", yes... Bashir in Kurn's
 PA> swansong (I don't recall the title), yes... Dr Crusher???

   Yes, Dr. Crusher.  At least twice she has used mind-altering
medical techniques to manipulate the mind of an alien (or explained
that the alien brain physiology prevented her, not that she had an
moral qualms about it...).

 PA> Again, I am not praising the Japanese, I am discussing Klingons.

No, you compared the Klingons to the Japanese, unfavorably, claiming
that the Japanese exhibited "real" honor.  I pointed out that that was
not true--the Japanese were just as good at real politics, and
back-stabbing self-serving behavior (despite Bushido) as anyone else.

 MJ> Keep in mind, also, that the Klingons typically are called upon
 MJ> by the script to provide the VILLAINS of the story. If the
 MJ> Klingon in question wasn't causing problems, he wouldn't be
 MJ> getting screen time, now would he?
 PA>
 PA> And the villain is honorable? No. Thank-you for conceding my
 PA> point.

   No concession.  Nobody is arguing that SOME Klingons are traitours
swine.  But you claim they ALL are.  In short, you're saying:

"Most of the criminals in this neighborhood are black [Klingon],
therefore all blacks [Klingons] are criminals...."

 PA> If you cannot debate a point without bearing attempting to defame
 PA> "my opinion" you are more than welcome to carry it to netmail.

That's what you're SAYING, whether you want to admit it or not.


--- PPoint 1.78
 * Origin: Folcroft Sanitarium (hsmith@cure.com) (1:105/302.47)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 103 of 584
 From : Mark Jones                          1:105/302.47    .óá 31 .âã 96 20:22
 To   : Emilio Ares
 Subj : BY FORCE OF ARMS
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On (28 Aug 96) Emilio Ares wrote to Mark Jones...

 EA> I've read these novels recently. Yes, the economy of the
 EA> Domination is slave based and seems to work well for them. He
 EA> makes references in various places about how the Drakon do not
 EA> develop consumer products. Why should they? Consumer goods and
 EA> household appliances are to give the consumer more liesure time.
 EA> When the drudgery is performed by slaves, there is no need to
 EA> develop these.
 EA>
 EA> On the whole these books were well written but very disturbing.

   Yes, the Draka novels are very disturbing.  It's a reminder that
human beings can be very inhuman.
   They are also a reminder (as is the non-fiction research I
mentioned) that, as a friend of mine put it:  The *moral* arguments
against slavery are still solid, but the economic arguments may not
hold as much water as we once thought.


--- PPoint 1.78
 * Origin: Folcroft Sanitarium (hsmith@cure.com) (1:105/302.47)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 104 of 584
 From : Mark Jones                          1:105/302.47    .óá 31 .âã 96 20:26
 To   : Patrick Duda
 Subj : BY FORCE OF ARMS
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On (28 Aug 96) Patrick Duda wrote to Bob Klahn...

  Re:  shooting your own dog...

 PD> Oh. But doesn't that sorta mean that you shouldn't allow yourself
 PD> to get attached to anything, or that you have to be strong enough
 PD> inside to cut any ties you have, no matter how strong? The first
 PD> one is really a sad sorta view on life, although the second is
 PD> better you also can't expect everyone to be able to do so.

   Sigh.  This one may go on forever.  Anyhow, *my* view is:

   He isn't saying you shouldn't let yourself get too attached to your
dog (or anything else).

   A Real Man (or Real Woman) is one who takes responsibility for his
choices.  You chose to own that dog--which means that *you* are
responsible for it.  Not your parents, not your neighbors, not your
kids, not the cops.  YOU are.
   So if the dog is rabid, or maimed, or just old and feeble and in
pain, it is YOUR job to put it out its misery.  If you aren't willing
to take that ultimate responsibility, you have no business owning the
dog in the first place.


--- PPoint 1.78
 * Origin: Folcroft Sanitarium (hsmith@cure.com) (1:105/302.47)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 105 of 584
 From : Patty Moniz                         1:260/388       .óá 31 .âã 96 11:48
 To   : JAMES DIXON
 Subj : UPN
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE 1.11+
---On 08-28-96  18:42, James Dixon chatted about on Sci-Fi Channel...

 PM> As for Red Dwarf, it's a classic.  It used to run in repeats on the public
 PM> access channel, but now it's not anywhere on tv.

 JD> Agreed... Hint: DO NOT watch UPN's new sitcom called "Homeboys in
 JD> Outer Space"... I saw the pilot episode last night and I'm so disgusted

 I'll take your advice. :)  I haven't seen much of anything good on UPN
 lately.  About the only shows I watch on there anymore all come on Sunday
 morning: Teknoman, The Hardy Boys, and Nancy Drew.

 JD> the Remake of Get Smart attempted by Fox the other year... If this
 JD> thing lasts more than a season, I think the IQ of viewers is going
 JD> negative...

 I've seen some pretty stupid stuff on tv lately.  Just because a few
 "stupid" comdies made it big doesn't mean that that is all a viewer wants
 to watch.  I need something to stimulate my brain! :)


        Shadowcat
        pmoniz@erc.cat.syr.edu

... "It's like, if you're nice to them, they bring you things." -PCU

___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20 [NR]
--- GEcho 1.11+ The BEST
 * Origin: Dragon's Cave, South of Texas, NY. 315-963-3389 (1:260/388)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 106 of 584
 From : Patty Moniz                         1:260/388       .òp 03 .åí 96 10:43
 To   : HENRY TRIPLETT
 Subj : Japanese SF
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE 1.11+
---On 08-29-96  16:46, Henry Triplett chatted about Japanese SF...

 PM> Go ahead.  I've got tons of 'em. :)  And who's the Sailor Moon fan?
 HT>
 HT> Well, Jeff Hancock to name one.  A frequent poster on this echo.

 I know him from the anime echo. :)

 PM>  ! Origin: Dragon's Cave, South of Texas, NY. 315-963-3389 (1:260/388)

 HT> "Texas, NY?"  Git a rope... <g>
 PM> I really have no idea what that origin line is about.  The BBS is in
 PM> Mexico, NY. ^_^
 HT> Ah, a joke.  As in Mexico being south of Texas I suppose.

 Oh yeah.  Why didn't I think of that?  I can't see my own origin line, so I
 never really think about it.

 HT> ... And then Patty turned into Sailor Moniz!

 HT> Heh, heh, heh!

 Glad you liked it. :)

 HT> ... Once again, Odo wins the Twister championship.

 Cool tag! <G> Of course, now that he's human...

        Shadowcat
        pmoniz@erc.cat.syr.edu

... VOYAGER: To boldly get lost where no one has gotten lost before.

___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20 [NR]
--- GEcho 1.11+ The BEST
 * Origin: Dragon's Cave, South of Texas, NY. 315-963-3389 (1:260/388)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 107 of 584
 From : Patty Moniz                         1:260/388       .òp 03 .åí 96 10:47
 To   : FRANK SWARBRICK
 Subj : on Sci-Fi Channel
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE 1.11+
---On 08-28-96  21:32, Frank Swarbrick chatted about on Sci-Fi Channel...

 FS> I like Strange Luck fairly well, but I wasn't distraught when it was
 FS> cancelled.  As for Dark Shadows and Red Dwarf I was only concidering
 FS> shows that were cancelled within the last two seasons.  I totally
 FS> agree with you on DS, anyway.  I saw it recently on the SciFi Channel
 FS> and absolutely *loved* it.

 I just can't believe that they left it at such a cliff hanger!  Oh, well.
 Gotta watch the original to get the whole story, I guess.  The man who
 played Barnabas(can't remember his name) was VERY good, IMHO.

 FS> Red Dwarf is currently airing on our local PBS station here in Denver.
 FS> This is the first time I've seen the show, and I like it a lot.  Just
 FS> saw "Back To Reality," so only one more season to go apparently.

 Lucky!  It just doesn't come on at all over here anymore.  It stoped airing
 just as I was getting into it, too! :(

 FS> Never saw Raven, but I rather doubt I would have cared for it.  Still,
 FS> who knows...

 I go for almost anything martial arts with a story line. :)

        Shadowcat
        pmoniz@erc.cat.syr.edu

... Oxymoron: Interactive Soliloquy.

___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20 [NR]
--- GEcho 1.11+ The BEST
 * Origin: Dragon's Cave, South of Texas, NY. 315-963-3389 (1:260/388)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 108 of 584
 From : David Johnston                      1:342/14        .òp 03 .åí 96 17:03
 To   : Josh Hill
 Subj : Independence Day (bel
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
-> I'll talk about whatever you want to talk about. I don't receive ANY
-> mail and when I do it is usually over some thing stupid.

The key is volume.  Sooner or later you will find a topic that takes
off.

--- PCBoard (R) v15.21/100
 * Origin: Freddy's Place - Edm. AB - 33.6K (403) 413-3460 (1:342/14)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 109 of 584
 From : David Johnston                      1:342/14        .òp 03 .åí 96 17:05
 To   : Ken Poe
 Subj : Klingons
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
-> Butting into your conversation with a note of present day
-> misrepresentation, if anyone would be interested.

Why would we be interested in hearing about modern day politics in an
area devoted to science fiction and fantasy?  Get thee to a politics
area.

--- PCBoard (R) v15.21/100
 * Origin: Freddy's Place - Edm. AB - 33.6K (403) 413-3460 (1:342/14)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 110 of 584
 From : David Johnston                      1:342/14        .òp 03 .åí 96 17:07
 To   : Patrick Duda
 Subj : Favourite Trek Movie Of A
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
-> >  Why does everyone hate that one the most.  I though it was the
-> best one. >It was funny when spock tried to swear.  I think it was
-> also cool when
-> It had a lot of funny moments, but to me the movie as a whole just
-> has
-> a totally 'un-trek' like attitude. Kinda like it's a 'monty-python'
-> trek.

Tell me, what is your opinion of "The Trouble with Tribbles" and "A
Piece of the Action?"

--- PCBoard (R) v15.21/100
 * Origin: Freddy's Place - Edm. AB - 33.6K (403) 413-3460 (1:342/14)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 111 of 584
 From : Sean Cooper                         1:260/388       .òp 03 .åí 96 21:01
 To   : JAMES DIXON
 Subj : UPN
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE 1.11+

-=> Quoting Patty Moniz to James Dixon <=-

 JD> Agreed... Hint: DO NOT watch UPN's new sitcom called "Homeboys in
 JD> Outer Space"... I saw the pilot episode last night and I'm so disgusted

 JD> the Remake of Get Smart attempted by Fox the other year... If this
 JD> thing lasts more than a season, I think the IQ of viewers is going
 JD> negative...

 All _this_ from the person who got kicked out of the trek echo's.......
Hmmmmmm....................let me think



--- GEcho 1.11+ The BEST
 þ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20 [NR] þ
 * Origin: Dragon's Cave, South of Texas, NY. 315-963-3389 (1:260/388)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 112 of 584
 From : Glenn Shaheen                       1:3600/7        .îí 02 .åí 96 13:47
 To   : Bobby Rissler
 Subj : Favourite Trek Movie
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

BR>  What exactly are the figures then.  I got these at a Star trek conventi
BR>by one of the production staff of the show.  And sorry, they were made a
BR>little after the 60's.  The show was in the 60's though.

        10 years after the 60s.

-=-
 * OLX 2.2 * What's this I hear about Visual Purple?

--- SLMAIL v3.5C  (#1540)
 * Origin: Robotech  -=-Fansubbed anime available upon request-=- (1:3600/7)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 113 of 584
 From : Glenn Shaheen                       1:3600/7        .îí 02 .åí 96 13:49
 To   : Leman Russ
 Subj : Klingons
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

LR> Asides from worf, TNG klingons seem to be a step down from TOS klingons.

Maybe they've ALL been replaced by changelings.
-=-
 * OLX 2.2 * "Rimmer, you are a smeghead."

--- SLMAIL v3.5C  (#1540)
 * Origin: Robotech  -=-Fansubbed anime available upon request-=- (1:3600/7)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 114 of 584
 From : Glenn Shaheen                       1:3600/7        .îí 02 .åí 96 13:53
 To   : Bobby Rissler
 Subj : Douglas Adams
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

BR>  I was wondering if anyone else has read any books by Douglas Adams.  Th
BR>best know book that he has written is entitled The Hitchhikers Guide to t
BR>Galaxy.  I thought this was a really good book.  There are many other boo
BR>in the series that were also good.

        I've read all 5 of the Hitchhikers trilogy. Some of the best
comedy I've ever read. The tv series was pretty good, also. I haven't
been able to find a copy of the radio series anywhere, though. I've
heard it's great.
-=-
 * OLX 2.2 * "He learned to read using alphabet soup."

--- SLMAIL v3.5C  (#1540)
 * Origin: Robotech  -=-Fansubbed anime available upon request-=- (1:3600/7)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 115 of 584
 From : Todd Sullivan                       1:202/720.3     .îí 02 .åí 96 17:25
 To   : Bobby Rissler
 Subj : Trek movies
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Reports from the Interior indicate that Bobby Rissler leaked the following to
James Dixon, re: Favourite Trek movie

 JD>> But Todays Fans and of course the Non-Fan critics--didn't want to see
 JD>> this... No, to them, SF films are FX and space battles NOT about the
 JD>> characters... So, momentum interjected By the critics contributed to
 JD>> this film being a flop...

 BR>   I agree, a lot of critics are probably not fans of star trek.  They
 BR> then give the movie a poor rating, this then directly affects the
 BR> amount of people that go to see the movie.

And a lot of us are.  We know quality when we see it, and have learned to expect
it.  And some people wonder why DS9 and Voyager took such a pasting at our
hands.  They're not up to TOS standards, unless the writing improves and the
Politically Correct BS goes in the dumpster where it belongs.

Todd Sullivan

... A famous name does not guarantee anything, including quality.

-*- ASTG 1.9

--- Spot 1.3a Unregistered
 * Origin: Todd's Spot in the Continuum (1:202/720.3)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 116 of 584
 From : Todd Sullivan                       1:202/720.3     .îí 02 .åí 96 17:45
 To   : All
 Subj : Road Trip
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Just so everyone knows.

I'm leaving California and returning to Florida.  The job situation is abyssmal.

I'll be incommunicado for quite a while, until I can get the rest of my stuf
(computer included) shipped to my new address.  I'm not dead, just yet. :^)

Later.

Todd Sullivan

... "Mom, I sneezed and blew my head off!" --Calvin

-*- ASTG 1.9

--- Spot 1.3a Unregistered
 * Origin: Todd's Spot in the Continuum (1:202/720.3)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 117 of 584
 From : Frank Glover                        1:2613/477      .òp 03 .åí 96 23:23
 To   : James Dixon
 Subj : Re: Favourite Trek movie of a
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

JD>  "Tomorrow is Yesterday"... I think the closest thing to the mark
JD>  would
JD>  be "Assignment: Earth" yet all the characters were in good form and
JD>  they
JD>  were smart enough not to take the risk of changing history--a theme
JD>  100%
JD>  ignored in ST IV...

   Note too that `Assignment: Earth' was meant to be a pilot for a series that
never got going. Otherwise we would've seen the continuing adventures of Gary
Seven and Roberta Lincon (Where Terri Gar got her start, btw.)

   Frank


--- QuickBBS 2.85 (Beta-1) GoldBase
 * Origin: The Matrix Data Bank BBS, Rochester, Ny (1:2613/477)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 118 of 584
 From : Frank Glover                        1:2613/477      .òp 03 .åí 96 23:25
 To   : Emilio Ares
 Subj : Re: Ringworld Throne
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

EA>  openings for another sequel.  Has anyone else read this?  Opinions on
EA>  the
EA>  book?

   Haven't read it yet, but as a (poor) Niven fan, I'll catch it as soon as it
gets to either paperback, or a local library....

   Frank


--- QuickBBS 2.85 (Beta-1) GoldBase
 * Origin: The Matrix Data Bank BBS, Rochester, Ny (1:2613/477)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 119 of 584
 From : Frank Glover                        1:2613/477      .òp 03 .åí 96 23:29
 To   : David Johnston
 Subj : Re: Klingons
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

DJ>  obvious example is the Starfleet claim that it is not a military
DJ>  organisation, but their claim to have eliminated poverty is equally
DJ>  specious.

   I think they were referring to the Federation in general, of which Starfleet
is the exploration and (yes) military arm.

   I don't see why Starfleet would deny its military role, anyway. The
Federation *does* have enemies, some of whom cannot be negotiated with in good
faith (though try we must), and others for whom it is...irrelevant.

   Frank


--- QuickBBS 2.85 (Beta-1) GoldBase
 * Origin: The Matrix Data Bank BBS, Rochester, Ny (1:2613/477)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 120 of 584
 From : Frank Glover                        1:2613/477      .òp 03 .åí 96 23:36
 To   : Leman Russ
 Subj : Re: Klingons
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

LR>   Also, when it was pointed out that he was being used, he threw down
LR>  his sword, saying "Only a fool fights in a burning house". Compassion
LR>  for his crew, and wisdom. Not a bad man, after all.
LR>
LR>   Asides from worf, TNG klingons seem to be a step down from TOS
LR>  klingons.

   When Kruge insisted on duking it out with Kirk on the disintergreating
Genisis Planet, I immediately thought back to Kang's words....

   Frank


--- QuickBBS 2.85 (Beta-1) GoldBase
 * Origin: The Matrix Data Bank BBS, Rochester, Ny (1:2613/477)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 121 of 584
 From : Frank Glover                        1:2613/477      .òp 03 .åí 96 23:46
 To   : Frank Glover
 Subj : Re: Klingons
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

FG>      And this may be because humans in both universes (and Earth does
FG>  seem to be in charge of Federation strategy and tactics in the Trek
FG>  Universe) are less glory-oriented (though we still respect and award
FG>  valor and gallantry), and more victory-oriented than our adversaries.
FG>  If `ho-hum' tactics that don't give much of a chance for individual
FG>  glory to be gained will work, we go that route. Klingons (and
FG>  Kizinti) see this as something akin to an unfair fight.....

   And, on a related note, in response to our cruise missile atacks, Saddam
Hussein accused the U.S. of hiding behind its technology....

   I say: yeah, so what's your point?

   `Ho-hum' tactics, but they work. More important to us than `scream and leap'
face-to-face glory....

   Frank


--- QuickBBS 2.85 (Beta-1) GoldBase
 * Origin: The Matrix Data Bank BBS, Rochester, Ny (1:2613/477)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 122 of 584
 From : Bobby Rissler                       1:270/435       .îí 02 .åí 96 21:46
 To   : James Dixon
 Subj : Favourite Trek movie of a
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

BR> TS> Thanks for the reply. I think the worst was the
BR> TS> "politically correct" one where they returned to save
BR> TS> the whales.
BR> TS> Ted

BR>  Why does everyone hate that one the most.  I
BR> though it was the best one.
BR>was funny when spock tried to swear.  I think it
 JD> was also cool when spock
BR>mind-melded with the whale.  All the other times we
BR>saw a vulcan mind-meld i
BR>was with another humanoid.

 JD> That's just it... ST IV was pretty much aimed smack at the masses of
 JD> Non-fans, which is one reason for its popularity... The Trek characters
 JD> were pretty much made fun of throughout the film, almost giving this
 JD> movie a Camp or Spoof feel... This was made even more so by the general
 JD> plot of traveling back in time to rescue whales--with the time travel
 JD> element being glossed over big-time... Compare it to the more "serious"
 JD> time travel episodes of TOS like "City on the Edge of Forever" or
 JD> "Tomorrow is Yesterday"... I think the closest thing to the mark would
 JD> be "Assignment: Earth" yet all the characters were in good form and they
 JD> were smart enough not to take the risk of changing history--a theme 100%
 JD> ignored in ST IV...

  Thats true.  A lot of the things that they did in ST IV would have really
messed things up.  Think though,  if they went back in time and brought the
whales into the future, what reason would they have for ever going back in time
in the first place.  Since there was no longer a reason to go back, they never
would have left.  But if they never went back then the whales would never have
been brought to the future.  It would be an endless loop.


--- Maximus 3.01
 * Origin: The Good News BBS  Bowmansville, PA (1:270/435)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 123 of 584
 From : Bobby Rissler                       1:270/435       .îí 02 .åí 96 21:50
 To   : David Little
 Subj : New Star Wars movies
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 DL> -=< Bobby Rissler used the Jedi Mind Trick on me!>=-

 BR> Did anyone else hear about the new Star Wars movie coming out in a
 BR> few years.  Its called Star Wars: Shadow of the Empire.  I saw a
 BR> presentation on it at a Star Trek Convention that
 BR> I went to recently.
 BR> They are also going to remake the 3 exsisting star wars movies using
 BR> CGI.  They are going to be released soon.

 DL>         hehe...It's not "Shadows of the Empire",
 DL> that's the name of the newest
 DL> multimedia product, but the re-release of the trilogy
 DL> is named "Star Wars:
 DL> Special Edition". The new SW prequels have yet to be named.

   This is going to be made after the special edition comes out.  It is planned
to be released in 1999.  It is going to take place between the The Empire
Strikes Back and Return of the Jedi.  The prequels won't be out for a while yet.


--- Maximus 3.01
 * Origin: The Good News BBS  Bowmansville, PA (1:270/435)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 124 of 584
 From : Bobby Rissler                       1:270/435       .îí 02 .åí 96 21:54
 To   : Ken Mayes
 Subj : Re: Favourite Trek movie of all Time
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 KM>         Uh, dude, I hate to tell you this but the Trek
 KM> Movies made a whole lot more money than that. From
 KM> what I've read the first movie cleared over 120
 KM> million dollars domestically in its first theatrical
 KM> release alone. That doesn't include secondary
 KM> releases, foriegn releases, the original video release
 KM> and the later expanded version release. It's still making money, in fact.

 KM>         I don't know where you got this "little over a
 KM> million dollars and 1.5 million dollars" figure. If
 KM> that's all the Trek movies made, the series would have
 KM> died after the first film and sank without a trace.
 KM> Without them, there would have been no TNG, DS9,
 KM> Voyager and quite likely JMS would never have found
 KM> the backing to produce B-5.

  I agree I was a little off on the amounts but the first one made the most and
the fourth one came in second.


--- Maximus 3.01
 * Origin: The Good News BBS  Bowmansville, PA (1:270/435)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 125 of 584
 From : Bobby Rissler                       1:270/435       .îí 02 .åí 96 21:58
 To   : Leman Russ
 Subj : Re: Klingons
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 LR>  Personally I'd say yhre klingons have DEVOLVED from
 LR> TOS. In TOS they could at times behave in a
 LR> respectable fashion.

 LR>  Witness "Day of the dove" in which Kang angerily
 LR> roars "Were the screams of my crew imaginary?" This
 LR> showed that as a captain he cared about his people,
 LR> and was deeply hurt to have them butchered under his
 LR> command. Kind of like a good human captain would be expected to feel.

 LR>  Also, when it was pointed out that he was being used,
 LR> he threw down his sword, saying "Only a fool fights in
 LR> a burning house". Compassion for his crew, and wisdom.
 LR> Not a bad man, after all.

 LR>  Asides from worf, TNG klingons seem to be a step down from TOS klingons.

  The klingons in the original series might have more moral standards and such
but they were more treacherous and cunning.


--- Maximus 3.01
 * Origin: The Good News BBS  Bowmansville, PA (1:270/435)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 126 of 584
 From : Bobby Rissler                       1:270/435       .îí 02 .åí 96 22:00
 To   : Leman Russ
 Subj : Re: Favourite Trek movie of a
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 BR> also cool when spock mind-melded with the whale.  All the other
 BR> times we saw a vulcan mind-meld it was with another humanoid.

 LR>  Ahhhh, I'd advise you to rewatch "Devil in the dark" if you can.

  Never saw that episode.  I haven't got in the mail yet.  I'll try and see that
as soon as I can.  Most of the times though they melded with another humanoid.


--- Maximus 3.01
 * Origin: The Good News BBS  Bowmansville, PA (1:270/435)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 127 of 584
 From : Bobby Rissler                       1:270/435       .òp 03 .åí 96 16:57
 To   : Patrick Duda
 Subj : Favourite Trek movie of a
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

>  Why does everyone hate that one the most.  I though
> it was the best one.
>It was funny when spock tried to swear.  I think it was also cool when

 PD>    It had a lot of funny moments, but to me the movie as a whole just has
 PD>    a totally 'un-trek' like attitude. Kinda like it's
 PD> a 'monty-python' trek.
 PD>     I think perhaps it was a bit of culture-shock, since it totally goes
 PD>     out of the typical trek sphere, there are no real familiar latches
 PD>     to hold on to. No Enterprise, no old crew, no klingons to deal with,
 PD>     etc. etc.

  Yeah, I guess your right but I still liked that one more than the others.

--- Maximus 3.01
 * Origin: The Good News BBS  Bowmansville, PA (1:270/435)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 128 of 584
 From : J.T. Smith                          1:132/152       .cê 01 .åí 96 08:49
 To   : Patrick Duda
 Subj : Re: Realistic space scen
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.SPTH: Fidonet#1:132/152
From a man who's physically phht.

 -> Actually, I would think that quite a bit of anime falls into the
 -> SF/Fantasy realm.  (At least the stuff I watch does.) D)
 PD> I think some of the best stuff, though, like Sailor Moon doesn't fall
 PD> into it, although there's always _some_ bit of tech in everything it
 PD> seems now.

 Having never seen Sailor Moon, I canna say about that one.  But sometimes
 just the time reference can make it SF (ie. if it takes place in the future,
 eg. made in 1988 but takes place in 1995).

 -> The only thing I could suggest is getting in touch w/ yer local
 -> Blockbuster Video.  I've found several anime films there, many of
 -> which can be ordered
 PD> I did that. They have some for rent, I also found a local vid shop
 PD> with anime for rent. I also have bought a few titles, and I now have
 PD> all anime for the next 2 months on SciFi planned out! :)
 PD> I'm cool for now...

 Cool.

 PD> Suncoast video has more tapes though than bankbuster video.

 So I've heard from other sources.  Only problem is that there isn't one near
 me.  Several bankbusters, but nae Sunburncoast.

... For great wrong doings there are great punishments.
--- AdeptXBBS v1.08a25 (VC) (Registered)
 * Origin: The Cereal Port BBS 603-899-3335 199.125.78.133 (1:132/152)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 129 of 584
 From : Peter McNeill                       1:244/116       .òp 03 .åí 96 23:05
 To   : Michael Harper
 Subj : Sound supressors
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10452
Hello Michael!

Saturday August 31 1996 09:34, Michael Harper wrote to Peter McNeill:

 PM>> Only if you use low velocity sub-sonic rounds. A silencer by
 PM>> itself using high velocity rounds won't do anything about the
 PM>> sound since it can't slow down hte round enough to stop it
 PM>> breaking the sound barrier unless you're using a one shot
 PM>> supressor.... its biggest function is to disperse the muzzle
 PM>> flash combined with low velocity rounds that make it so effective
 PM>> which is why .22 makes such a good silenced weapon.

 MH>  But here we're diverging somewhat, Pietro. We're talking about
 MH>  Hollyweird types who don't know from high-velocity rounds sticking a
 MH>  silenced wheelgun in some chick hitter's paw in an otherwise good
 MH>  flick... the point being that the average filmmaker doesn't know shit
 MH>  about much more than exposure times and f-stops, if that much. We
 MH> know, because we read up on it. But Joe Average the propman doesn't,
 MH> and should. Accuracy is essential in a film, as much so as good acting
 MH> and direction and continuity. Unless you're Alex Cox, you can't get
 MH> away with something wildly inaccurate in a movie anymore; people know
 MH> the difference.

Ahhhh..... I see. Now that's a different kettle of fish. I always get a chuckle
out of <especially tv shows> the villian/goodguy pulling out his silenced .44
magnum and hearing this little "phufttt"....


... End of sermon. Let the orgy begin.
--- GoldED 2.50+
 * Origin: If you want my address, it's #1 at the end of the bar. (1:244/116)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 130 of 584
 From : Peter McNeill                       1:244/116       .òp 03 .åí 96 23:08
 To   : Leman Russ
 Subj : Sound supressors
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10452
Hello Leman!

Tuesday August 27 1996 04:38, Leman Russ wrote to Peter Mcneill:

 PM>> ... I'd be a fundamentalist - if I could just stop laughing..

 LR>  Loooove the tagline. In fact, I loved it so much, I STOLE IT!!!
 LR> Bwahaha!
 >> ;[

Guess I'll have to leave another for you to steal....

... Chia Jesus: Grow your own Messiah. (Just add holy water.)
--- GoldED 2.50+
 * Origin: If you want my address, it's #1 at the end of the bar. (1:244/116)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 131 of 584
 From : David Johnston                      1:348/402       .òp 03 .åí 96 18:36
 To   : Josh Hill
 Subj : Independence Day (bel
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE 1.11+
.NOTE: IceEdit 1.40 21141
Hi Josh
Well I am new at this,I am trying to establish a good chat... I find the same
thing everyone uses one liners.... and it usually is poor quality...
...

 JH> I'll talk about whatever you want to talk about. I don't

 JH> receive ANY  mail and when I do it is usually over some thing stupid.
 JH> Only, 817-756-1032, Waco TX (1:388/9.0)

...
I was not sure if you would recieve the message I sent,it seems so far away,
The differance in weather,scenery,people,lifestyles.... etc all brought together
by computer and a system of integration.... not bat for a bunch
of humans....
...
as i said i noticed the city name WACO and it caught my eye as my friend used to
live there... what is it like... this time of year...
...

are you working if so what do you do.... if not do you go to university...
...
what kind of system are you running... IBM,compatable  etc....
...
well i will talk to you later

David

... Look out for number one. But don't step in number two!
--- GEcho/386 1.11+
 * Origin: * Cobalt's Haven * Winnipeg * 204-832-9603 * OS/2-FD-RA * (1:348/402)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 132 of 584
 From : Bert Faes                           2:292/505.28    .îí 02 .åí 96 17:56
 To   : David Little
 Subj : New Star Wars movies
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 > -=< Bobby Rissler used the Jedi Mind Trick on me!>=-

 >  BR> Did anyone else hear about the new Star Wars movie coming out in a
 >  BR> few years.  Its called Star Wars: Shadow of the Empire.  I saw a
 >  BR> presentation on it at a Star Trek Convention that I went to recently.
 >  BR> They are also going to remake the 3 exsisting star wars movies using
 >  BR> CGI.  They are going to be released soon.

 >         hehe...It's not "Shadows of the Empire", that's the name of the
 > newest
 > multimedia product, but the re-release of the trilogy is named "Star
 > Wars:
 > Special Edition". The new SW prequels have yet to be named.

Are the gona take the same actors or who's gona play into the episodes ?
Maybe the original actors are a bit out of the age but they are almost
'legendary', I'll suck when the use others...


C ya l8er

Bert Faes

--- FMail 0.96ò
 * Origin: The best way to commit suiccide is to build an atomic Bomb
(2:292/505.28)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 133 of 584
 From : Brion Lienhart                      1:213/700.2     .ÿò 30 .âã 96 08:02
 To   : Emilio Ares
 Subj : Re: Anyone know about upcomin
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On Wed Aug 28, Emilio Ares said to Jeff Hancock:

 JH> Very soon, I ordered it a couple of weeks ago.  I don't think it's
 JH> your usual Man-Kzin Wars novel, though; it is supposed to explain how a
 JH> race like the Kzin could ever develop enough of a civilization to
 JH> become what they became, even before that alien race showed up to give
 JH> them star-faring technology.  (needless to say I forgot who they were
 JH> already ;)

 -EA>You mean the guys with the five arms that if indoctrinated early
 -EA>enough in
 -EA>their life cycle become very good slaves?  I can't remember their name
 -EA>either.

IIRC, it's Jotuki or something like that that starts with a J. However, the
latest M-KW book I've seen is _Darker Geometries_ by Gregory Benford, and umm,
some other guy. It's about the ship Sun-Tzu on a mission to Alpha Centauri
during the first war when they run into some Kzin halfway there. At least three
quarters of it has been in the previous M-KW books. It's mostly about the
effects the battles of the war have in pissing off the Outsiders.



--- QM v1.31
 * Origin: Ministry of Peace - Carson City, NV (1:213/700.2)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 134 of 584
 From : Brion Lienhart                      1:213/700.2     .ÿò 30 .âã 96 08:09
 To   : HTom Trites
 Subj : Homeboys In Outer Splech!
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On Thu Aug 29, HTom Trites said to Ken Mayes:

 KM>         Somebody shoot me before I'm forced to watch
 KM> another episode of UPN's Homeboys in Outer Space.
 KM>         What the hey was Jimmy Doohan doing slumming in
 KM> such a piece of drek anyway? Surely he can do better.
 KM> Didn't he read the script?


 -HT>This (Homeboys in OS) was truly, horribly, awfully, bad.
 -HT>It was so bad that it wasn't funny as /bad/ TV.

Unless I missed something, Jimmy "Oh Lord, do I need a Job" Doohan wasn't even
in the credits. It will probably die on it's own.




--- QM v1.31
 * Origin: Ministry of Peace - Carson City, NV (1:213/700.2)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 135 of 584
 From : Brion Lienhart                      1:213/700.2     .pä 04 .åí 96 14:03
 To   : Leman Russ
 Subj : Re: SOUND SUPRESSORS
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On Sun Sep 01, Leman Russ said to Owen E. Oulton:

 -LR> The powder in a bullet does not, Ahem, fillthe entire shellcase and
 -LR>in fact there is a lot of air inthe case.

Are you a shooter Leman? I am, and I'm pretty sure that Owen is too. I reload
ammo, and the amount of air in the case is irrelevant. Some loads of some
calibers fill the case so full you have to tamp it down before you can put the
bullet in. Other loads barely cover the bottom of the case. If you don't know
what you're talking about, it's best not to spread misinformation.
The oxygen is already in the powder, you don't need any air at all to shoot. The
main problem with shooting in a vacuum would be vacuum welding of the action.



--- QM v1.31
 * Origin: Ministry of Peace - Carson City, NV (1:213/700.2)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 136 of 584
 From : Brion Lienhart                      1:213/700.2     .pä 04 .åí 96 14:06
 To   : Dave Ewen
 Subj : B-5
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On Mon Sep 02, Dave Ewen said to Roy Stevens:

RS>Rangers (Marcus) don't seem to have to.

 -DE>I'm trying to get up to speed on B-5. What are the Rangers doing?
 -DE>Seems
 -DE>like they are some sort of secret.

Well, Lord Zed and Rita got together and kicked their butts. Oh, wrong rangers.
nevermind.




--- QM v1.31
 * Origin: Ministry of Peace - Carson City, NV (1:213/700.2)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 137 of 584
 From : Brion Lienhart                      1:213/700.2     .pä 04 .åí 96 14:09
 To   : Bob Klahn
 Subj : BY FORCE OF ARMS
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On Mon Sep 02, Bob Klahn said to Bill Clements:

 BK>>  One I always liked was, " A man should always be ready to shoot his
 BK>> own  dog."
 BC>
 BK>>  I know that was Heinlein, I think it was LL.
 BC>
 BC> "When the need arises--and it does--you must be able to shoot
 BC> your own dog. Don't farm it out--that doesn't make it nicer, it
 BC> makes it worse."
 BC>                                         -- Woodrow Wilson Smith

 -BK> I was sure it was RAH, got the wrong character, though.

Woodrow Wilson Smith was Lazarus Long's birth name.



--- QM v1.31
 * Origin: Ministry of Peace - Carson City, NV (1:213/700.2)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 138 of 584
 From : Frank Glover                        1:2613/477      .pä 04 .åí 96 22:39
 To   : Bobby Rissler
 Subj : Re: Favourite Trek movie of a
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

BR>   JD> were smart enough not to take the risk of changing history--a
BR>  theme 100%
BR>   JD> ignored in ST IV...
BR>
BR>    Thats true.  A lot of the things that they did in ST IV would have
BR>  really messed things up.  Think though,  if they went back in time
BR>  and brought the whales into the future, what reason would they have
BR>  for ever going back in time in the first place.  Since there was no
BR>  longer a reason to go back, they never would have left.  But if they
BR>  never went back then the whales would never have been brought to the
BR>  future.  It would be an endless loop.

   You think this was the first time Trek (or any other SF) has stepped into the
paradoxical mine field that time travel causes? Presumably Scotty anc McCoy felt
the could get away with giving away the formula for transparent aluminum because
the identity of its creator is a lost historical fact to them. It could just as
well have been that guy. Selling Kirk's glasses acknowledged such a loop:

Spock: "Aren't those the glasses Doctor McCoy gave you for your birthday?"

 Kirk: "Yes, and they will be again. That's the beauty of it."

   Harry harrison did something similar in `The Technicolor Time Machine.'


    As for making sure not to alter history...your very presence can't help but
affect something. (Even just absorbing a few photons, or displacing a few air
molecules that weren't affected before.) And due to tha chaotic (Not the way the
term was abused in Jurassic Park,but the fact that the system is exteremely
non-linear, and results are increasingly sensitive to inital conditions, the
farther down you look.) way in which events and history seem to unfold, there's
no way of knowing what will be ultimately important, anyway. `City on the Edge
of Forever,' `Tomorrow is Yesterday' (You won't do anything signifigant, but
your son will.) and the DS9 episodes in 21st century Los Angeles should've
taught us that.....

   Frank


--- QuickBBS 2.85 (Beta-1) GoldBase
 * Origin: The Matrix Data Bank BBS, Rochester, Ny (1:2613/477)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 139 of 584
 From : Bobby Rissler                       1:270/435       .pä 04 .åí 96 06:59
 To   : Frank Glover
 Subj : Re: Favourite Trek movie of a
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

BR>  one.  It was funny when spock tried to swear.  I think it was also
BR>  cool when spock mind-melded with the whale.  All the other times we
BR>  saw a vulcan mind-meld it was with another humanoid.
 FG>
 FG>    The silicon-based Horta? The artificial
 FG> intelligences of Nomad and V'ger?
 FG>

  I'll agree with V'ger but what is the artifical intelligence of Nomad.  What
episode is that.  I have not got all of the episodes in my collection yet.


--- Maximus 3.01
 * Origin: The Good News BBS  Bowmansville, PA (1:270/435)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 140 of 584
 From : Scott Scheibe                       1:114/260       .òp 03 .åí 96 20:25
 To   : All
 Subj : Homeboys in Outer Space
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
HomeBoys..  It premiered to night here in Phoenix in the block before
Burning Times which is on now.  I have never really appreciated black
humor but I think Home Boys was the stupidest thing I have ever seen on
TV. At least the 5 minutes I could stand to watch before I switched
to watch the gymnastics on the other channel..
    I generally like any thing with a SF theme but this wasn't even
bad SF, just another extremely stupid Sitcom set in outer space.

                                                Scott Scheibe

... Reality is an illusion created by... you and I.
--- Via Silver Xpress V4.3 SW11949
 * Origin: The Union Jack BBS, Phoenix, AZ, USA. (602) 274-9921 (1:114/260)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 141 of 584
 From : Jillian Isler                       1:119/13        .pä 04 .åí 96 23:04
 To   : All
 Subj : fantasy pic
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
If anyone has any fantasy pitcures medevile stuff let me I might want to down
load some.

--- Renegade v5-11 Exp
 * Origin: DSSK7 * The*Tribble*Zone * Chico*CA * 916*899*1069 (1:119/13)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 142 of 584
 From : Bob Klahn                           1:234/2         .åò 05 .åí 96 00:05
 To   : Patrick Duda
 Subj : BY FORCE OF ARMS
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
->> Why should you be ready to shoot your own dog? Because it would be
->> cruel to let it suffer from some of the ravages it may everntually
->> have to go through. If it ever turns mean you may have to protect
->> others. Either way,

 PD>  Oh. But doesn't that sorta mean that you shouldn't allow yourself to
 PD> get attached to anything, or that you have to be strong enough inside to
 PD> cut any ties you have, no matter how strong? The first one is really a
 PD> sad sorta view on life, although the second is better you also can't
 PD> expect everyone to be able to do so.

 Actually, it means you have to be ready to do your own hard jobs, (dirty
 work), not try to shove it off on somebody else.

 Getting attached is a human necessity, and some bonds should not be broken
 no matter what. No one is that strong.

BOB KLAHN   bob.klahn@toltbbs.com

... A weapon is an enemy even to its owner.    Turkish Proverb.
 * Silver Xpress V4.3P RB10275

--- FLAME v1.1
 * Origin: Telnet toltbbs.com or call 313-854-6001, Boardwatch #55 (1:234/2)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 143 of 584
 From : Bob Klahn                           1:234/2         .åò 05 .åí 96 00:05
 To   : Lis Carey
 Subj : BY FORCE OF ARMS
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 LC> Of course, the assumption at that point was that Saddam was basically
 LC> sane.

 Message mostly deleted as it is quite sufficient in itself, and about time
 we got back on topic. Besides, in the time this discussion has developed
 much more has happened and who knows where it's going?

BOB KLAHN   bob.klahn@toltbbs.com

... Rationalization is White Wash for the soul.
 * Silver Xpress V4.3P RB10275

--- FLAME v1.1
 * Origin: Telnet toltbbs.com or call 313-854-6001, Boardwatch #55 (1:234/2)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 144 of 584
 From : Bob Klahn                           1:234/2         .åò 05 .åí 96 00:05
 To   : James Dixon
 Subj : FAVOURITE TREK MOVIE
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
BK>> I consider STM-IV the best of the lot because it was the most enjoyable.
BK>> As
BK>> to scientific accuracy, I gave up on that a long time ago.

 JD> How can you give up on scientific accuracy when we're talking about SF
 JD> movies?

 No, we're talking about Star Trek, Sci Fi at best, weak Sci Fi typically.

BK>> As SF films none of the STMs were any good. Number 1 blew it for me, as
BK>> did
BK>> 2 and 3, because of the lack of originality. They all just went back and
BK>> recycled old plots.

 JD> I can see this... But ST-TMP I always liked because it was the milestone
 JD> Trek movie which started it all and it at least tried to kick off an
 JD> intellectual Trek movie series--even though it failed by being poorly
 JD> paced, a tad too FXed, and didn't really delve into the characters...

 The great weakness of TMP was set from the start. They did not have an
 original idea in their heads, so they reached back into the old series to
 warm over an old plot. From there they were doomed.

 JD> Also had the best musical score and FX of all the films, IMO... ST II

 Yes, ST-TMP had great FX, I could watch nothing but the FXs and forget the
 plot and dialog. However, Dune also had great FX and an even better musical
 score. The move stunk all the same.

 JD> was overall a decent movie though it catered to the, as one movie advert

 It was a money machine. I doubt anyone in the whole process really loved SF.
 ...

 JD> Now ST IV was supposed to be a lighter movie but I found it to be Too
 JD> light, and it catered to the non-fans--almost spoofing the Trek
 JD> characters for the sake of the masses' enjoyment... And as a time travel
 JD> story it was a joke...

 Yes, it was a joke, but I could enjoy that as I didn't have to be concerned
 with the scientific weaknesses.

 I mean, whales singing across the vacuum of space? Come on.
...

BK>> JD> bad as Generations, if not worse...

BK>> Worse? Is that possible?

 JD> Oh yes... When we have the same old, stagnant writers from TNG/DS9/V
 JD> writing feature films, it's a bad sign... When we know that they stick
 JD> to Cheap gimmicks and formulas to tease the fan community... Generations
 JD> was a mish-mash of ideas and subplots--not one was fully explored and

  Like I said, a money machine.

 JD> It Pointlessly killed off Picard's brother and nephew, the Duras

 That did get to me.

 JD> sisters, Data (his quest for emotions--the Data that Gene created),
 JD> 1701-D, and of course Jim Kirk... Essentially, Berman drove a bulldozer
 JD> across TOS and TNG, leveling a good portion of what Gene Roddenberry
 JD> created, so he could re-create it in the next movie in his own way...

 You know, I didn't realize that, but it seems your are right here.

 JD> Cheap deaths for cheap thrills... Not to mention the plot of this Nexus

 Yeah, awful wasn't it.

 JD> thingie which makes no sense... This Borg film sounds like another

 Sense? None, you're right.

 JD> mishmash movie with time travel and other far-fetched, wacko gimmicks...

 Ugh, I'm depressed already.


BOB KLAHN   bob.klahn@toltbbs.com

... Remember, going with the flow, usually takes you down the drain!   OJW
 * Silver Xpress V4.3P RB10275

--- FLAME v1.1
 * Origin: Telnet toltbbs.com or call 313-854-6001, Boardwatch #55 (1:234/2)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 145 of 584
 From : Bob Klahn                           1:234/2         .åò 05 .åí 96 00:05
 To   : Todd Sullivan
 Subj : BY FORCE OF ARMS
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 TS> Reports from the Interior indicate that Bob Klahn leaked the following
 TS> to Patrick Duda, re: BY FORCE OF ARMS

 >>>> One I always liked was, " A man should always be ready to shoot his own
 >>>> dog."

 BK>>  Why should you be ready to shoot your own dog? Because it would be
 BK>> cruel to
 BK>>  let it suffer from some of the ravages it may everntually have to go
 BK>>  through. If it ever turns mean you may have to protect others. Either
 BK>> way, it's the dog owner's responsibility.

 TS> That's not the impression I got.

 TS> It seemed to me that he was referring to taking care of your own
 TS> business, not forcing others have to cover for you.  If you can't do
 TS> your own, why should you advise others?

 TS> Something along those lines...

 Yes, to a great extent. The last line I wrote means just about that.
 But it also means sometimes you have to have enough in you to do what is
 necessary to help others, even when it seems you're hurting them.

 Remember, a surgeon may want to cure your condition, but first he has to cut
 you open.

BOB KLAHN   bob.klahn@toltbbs.com

... Only thing Texas needs is water and good people - same thing hell needs.
 * Silver Xpress V4.3P RB10275

--- FLAME v1.1
 * Origin: Telnet toltbbs.com or call 313-854-6001, Boardwatch #55 (1:234/2)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 146 of 584
 From : Bob Klahn                           1:234/2         .åò 05 .åí 96 00:05
 To   : James Dixon
 Subj : HOMEBOYS IN OUTER SPL
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 JD> As for James Doohan starring... Well, I Hope it was just a one-shot
 JD> one-episode cameo... I still don't think he can get as low as Nichelle
 JD> Nichols backing the Psychotic Network...

 Don't you recall the problems the non-leading characters from TOS had
 getting jobs afterwards? Don't you recall the low pay scales they had to
 settle for?

 I'd say they were pretty well hard up for work.

BOB KLAHN   bob.klahn@toltbbs.com

... Reality, what a concept!
 * Silver Xpress V4.3P RB10275

--- FLAME v1.1
 * Origin: Telnet toltbbs.com or call 313-854-6001, Boardwatch #55 (1:234/2)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 147 of 584
 From : Kay Shapero                         1:102/524       .pä 04 .åí 96 09:19
 To   : James Dixon
 Subj : Re: Klingons
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Sep 02 09:06>, James Dixon (1:2604/309) wrote to Leman Russ:

 JD>TPTB still doesn't have the lobes to come right out and say that
 JD>there are two different Klingon races... They want us to believe that
 JD>the TOS and TNG Klingons are one and the same, that their change in
 JD>physical appearance is due entirely to inadequate funds in the 60s!

I should imagine the true explanation is that they simply wanted to have fun
with makeup when they did the movie.  But yeah, that doesn't fit "the game".  Of
course we know they have pretty good plastic surgery, witness the Klingon
disguised as a human in "The Trouble With Tribbles."  So we've got two
possibilities.

First, most prosaic, and probably most accurate: more than one race of Klingons.
The Klingon Empire is a multi-species Empire, and the term "Klingon" refers to a
member of that empire, sorta like the way members of the Federation are
sometimes termed as "Feds" (though I don't think they use that term themselves.)
The first ones the Federation ran into were the more "humanoid" variety like
Kor.

Second.... Blame it all on Mad Emperor Kang.  Forced by circumstances and family
connections to become Emperor, his own wish was always to be the Galaxy's
greatest cosmetic surgeon.  Of course the methods available were far more subtle
than those that the modern day plastic surgeon must utilize; he used nanotech.
Choosing a few of the outermost planets as a place to practice, he refined his
little beasties and turned them loose, with the results that one planet full of
Klingons became bright green asparagus people, rooted, and are still growing;
another turned into amorphous blobs, fell through a convenient wormhole, mutated
a bit and are now well established in the Gamma Quadrant as the Changlings; and
the third and fourth took on the characteristics visible in the Klingons seen on
the original Star Trek series.  These happened to run into the Federation first.

Meanwhile, infuriated by the metamorphosis of his favorite concubine into a
large, ambulatory eggplant, the Emperor's oldest son, Klun the Impatient, led a
successful revolution.  The Emperor was changed into a sort of nonsapient cross
between a redwood and a really large snail, and can still be found slowly
gliding about the palace gardens, and the new Emperor Klun the Magnificent
declared nanotechnology to be banned from the Klingon Empire which is why they
don't have it now.  Maybe...

        Kalisa Santiel, KBV Sauntee, Klingon Star Empire (Old Style)

--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 148 of 584
 From : Phill Ash                           1:275/160       .òp 03 .åí 96 10:14
 To   : Patrick Duda
 Subj : Klingons
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE 1.11+

 PD> Even a klingon has to have enough brains in that cranial cavity to
 PD> realize if you kill off all your warriors after a failed mission you
 PD> start to come up short on men. How do you think the 'Worf emperor'
 PD> came across as an ideal klingon in that last DS9 ep? Now _that's_ a
 PD> weak klingon.

        True... the depiction of "The Regent" was really what got me
        thinking on the subject...

 -> I got to thinking that that'd be a primo justification for the
 -> cranial furrows on post-TOS klingons...  Some type of genetic

 PD> I wouldn't feel a need to explain any differences between TOS and TNG
 PD> tech. The FX for the old series was so sophmoric, green women and
 PD> chinese klingons?

        I feel that it's a cop-out to ignore these things when they can
        be explained within the realm of the pseudo-tech so easily <G>

 PD> become a real ad-hoc main series, IMO. I think they need to ditch DS9
 PD> and just put sisko and the crew on a _real_ ship, and just do what
 PD> they seem to be aching for, and that is to start up another TNG-like
 PD> series. Then it would be nice if they could just put voyager to sleep,

        The "Western" died with the cancellation of "Gunsmoke"... DS9
        was an attempt to revive that type of storytelling... TPTB
        shoulda cut their losses on that front while TNG was still fresh
        in everyone's mind and done as you've said (IMHO)

 PD> too. At the least ditch the 'gilligan's island' storyline. "Professor,
 PD> do you think we could make a wormhole with two pots and a tachyon
 PD> beam?"

        I've heard rumors that imply they're ditching the "Lost in
        Space" motif...  I'll wait for more before I begin perpetuating
        them, though...


From the Office of the DeathMaster General...
---
 þ Ôystertags v1.2 þ Experiments that failed too many times

~~~ ReneWave v2.00 [NR]
--- Smile :)
 * Origin: * The Beast's Lair * (804)498-3070 * Va Beach VA * (1:275/160)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 149 of 584
 From : Phill Ash                           1:275/160       .òp 03 .åí 96 10:14
 To   : Bobby Rissler
 Subj : Klingons
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE 1.11+

 BR> You both must admit though that Klingons have come a long way since
 BR> the original series where they were more like the romulans are now.

        Oh yeah...
        The Klingon were exactly what Roddenberry did *NOT* want on
        Trek... aliens who were evil for evil's sake.

        Early memos about the depiction of Klingons used such terms as
        "...beat up their own mothers" and "...fart in airlocks".

        Later, Roddenberry decried the use of klingons and insisted that
        there be emplaced a rationale behind their 'evil'... hence the
        "Honourable Klingon"...

        Unfortunately, we never got a story involving a Klingon doing
        some unspeakable 'evil' that HAD to be done because it was the
        HONORABLE THING TO DO...


From the Office of the DeathMaster General...
---
 þ Ôystertags v1.2 þ While the seven The visitors all went a drumming

~~~ ReneWave v2.00 [NR]
--- Smile :)
 * Origin: * The Beast's Lair * (804)498-3070 * Va Beach VA * (1:275/160)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 150 of 584
 From : Phill Ash                           1:275/160       .òp 03 .åí 96 10:14
 To   : James Dixon
 Subj : Dune Encyclopaedia
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE 1.11+

 PA>        TrekTech has started into the "can't exceed warp 10 : can too"
 PA>        arguements...   It's almost like I'm waiting for Voyager to
 PA>        premier so that I'll have something more to lambast. :)

 JD> Oh, lovely... Let me predict that a canon war will crop up there soon,
 JD> followed by (or alongside) the 9.99999999 = 1.0 mathematics debate...
 JD> Nothing ever changes around here...

        We'll see...
        Where's the WebSite that's got the updated Chronology?  I had it
        bookmarked 2 versions of NetScape ago... <sigh>


From the Office of the DeathMaster General...
---
 þ Ôystertags v1.2 þ See them standing in the foothills, waiting for the kill

~~~ ReneWave v2.00 [NR]
--- Smile :)
 * Origin: * The Beast's Lair * (804)498-3070 * Va Beach VA * (1:275/160)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 151 of 584
 From : Phill Ash                           1:275/160       .òp 03 .åí 96 10:14
 To   : David Johnston
 Subj : Klingons
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE 1.11+

 ->       My specific reference for that attack was the "Duras is busy
 ->       rewriting history" sequence in "Unification ptI"... I,
 ->       personally would like them to establish that Duras *has always*
 ->       been a changeling... but, no doubt, the real Duras will step
 -> out

 DJ> That would be rather unlikely given that Duras predates the Dominion's
 DJ> discovery of the Feds and the Klingons.

        d'OH!
        Gowron!  (I *hate* it when I do that)

        I don't think it's been established when the Dominion actually
        discovered the Alpha Quadrant...


From the Office of the DeathMaster General...
---
 þ Ôystertags v1.2 þ Who will rock with you?  I know now

~~~ ReneWave v2.00 [NR]
--- Smile :)
 * Origin: * The Beast's Lair * (804)498-3070 * Va Beach VA * (1:275/160)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 152 of 584
 From : Phill Ash                           1:275/160       .òp 03 .åí 96 10:14
 To   : Todd Sullivan
 Subj : SAAB
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE 1.11+

 PA>         Nevermind the fact that previous grooming requirements for
 PA>         beards in the Navy allowed for the Mark 5 to seal properly,
 PA>         fully containing the beard with no detrimental effect.

 TS> I'm sure the civilians will appreciate this information.
 TS> USS Saratoga, CV-60, 1980-83.  Now in the hands of Gillette.

        Sinkin' Sara...  Oh joy <G>
        Looks like you got out 'round the same time I got in...


From the Office of the DeathMaster General...
---
 þ Ôystertags v1.2 þ this nightmare:  civilisation

~~~ ReneWave v2.00 [NR]
--- Smile :)
 * Origin: * The Beast's Lair * (804)498-3070 * Va Beach VA * (1:275/160)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 153 of 584
 From : Phill Ash                           1:275/160       .òp 03 .åí 96 10:14
 To   : Roy Stevens
 Subj : SPACE: ABOVE AND BEYOND -
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE 1.11+

 PA>        B5 doesn't try to make us believe that, in the FUTURE, Marines
 PA>        won't get haircuts  <G>

 RS> Rangers (Marcus) don't seem to have to.

        Those "Rangers" are a paramilitary organisation established by
        Sinclair as a joint Minbari-Earth endeavor... it is a secretive
        organisation whose members must be able to blend-in with every
        layer of society...  There is no evidence to suggest that it is
        an extention of the modern US Army Rangers.


From the Office of the DeathMaster General...
... Where, in a desert way-house poised on the brink of eternity
---
 * Ôystertags v1.2 *
~~~ ReneWave v2.00 [NR]
--- Smile :)
 * Origin: * The Beast's Lair * (804)498-3070 * Va Beach VA * (1:275/160)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 154 of 584
 From : Phill Ash                           1:275/160       .òp 03 .åí 96 10:14
 To   : David Johnston
 Subj : Klingons
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE 1.11+

 ->       Starfleet does not depict itself as a Gathering of Angels.  It
 ->       does not hide behind a veil of lies in the name of "Honor".

 DJ> Yes it does.  Starfleet has repeatedly misrepresented both it's own
 DJ> nature and the nature of the society it represents.  Perhaps the most
 DJ> obvious example is the Starfleet claim that it is not a military

        Define "military organisation"...

        I interpret that to mean "We are not a dictatorship"

 DJ> organisation, but their claim to have eliminated poverty is equally
 DJ> specious.

        Nothing has been demonstrated to suggest otherwise (has it?)


From the Office of the DeathMaster General...
... When the brink of ruin lies upon the world angels shall rise
---
 * Ôystertags v1.2 *
~~~ ReneWave v2.00 [NR]
--- Smile :)
 * Origin: * The Beast's Lair * (804)498-3070 * Va Beach VA * (1:275/160)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 155 of 584
 From : Phill Ash                           1:275/160       .òp 03 .åí 96 10:14
 To   : Owen E. Oulton
 Subj : Klingons
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE 1.11+

 PA>         My specific reference for that attack was the "Duras is busy
 PA>         rewriting history" sequence in "Unification ptI"... I,
 PA>         personally would like them to establish that Duras *has always*

 OEO> Uh, guys?  Duras is dead.  He never got to be head of the High
 OEO> Council.  You're thinking of Gowron.

        d'OH!


From the Office of the DeathMaster General...
... Which was the stage at Altamont, my humble boys of listless power:
---
 * Ôystertags v1.2 *
~~~ ReneWave v2.00 [NR]
--- Smile :)
 * Origin: * The Beast's Lair * (804)498-3070 * Va Beach VA * (1:275/160)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 156 of 584
 From : Phill Ash                           1:275/160       .òp 03 .åí 96 10:14
 To   : James Dixon
 Subj : FAVOURITE TREK MOVIE
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE 1.11+

 JD> It Pointlessly killed off Picard's brother and nephew,

        Pointlessly?
        Nay, I say...  As you state earlier, many subplots are wheeled
        out but improperly explored.  Robert and Rene's deaths were
        intricate to Picard's realisation of his own mortality (there
        would be noone to continue the Picard line).  This led to the
        Nexus-created illusion of home and hearth with children all
        around...

 JD> the Duras sisters,

        No comment...

 JD> Data (his quest for emotions--the Data that Gene created),

        Again... a plot device handled incorrectly...  Spiner did a good
        job conveying Data's emotional immaturity.  More's the pity that
        it wasn't developed further in the story.

 JD> 1701-D, and of course Jim Kirk...

        I'm not going to try and justify these... Storywise, there was
        no excuse for either.

 JD> this Nexus thingie which makes no sense...

        My major gripe about the Nexus is - Why didn't the scribblers
        take the time to explain that Picard and Kirk (as humans) had
        the imagination that the el-Alurians (or whatever) lacked... and
        subsequently could overcome the compulsion to remain in the
        Nexus.



ùANATúô:  Publican
... And some would sail back home:  It was no star but a Magna of Illusion
---
 * Ôystertags v1.2 *
~~~ ReneWave v2.00 [NR]
--- Smile :)
 * Origin: * The Beast's Lair * (804)498-3070 * Va Beach VA * (1:275/160)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 157 of 584
 From : Phill Ash                           1:275/160       .òp 03 .åí 96 10:14
 To   : Bobby Rissler
 Subj : Douglas Adams
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE 1.11+

 BR> I was wondering if anyone else has read any books by Douglas Adams.
 BR> The best know book that he has written is entitled The Hitchhikers
 BR> Guide to the Galaxy.  I thought this was a really good book.  There are
 BR> many other books in the series that were also good.

        If you can get your hands on the original BBC Radio broadcast (I
        believe Planet Music carries it on CD), you'll never want to
        read any of the other books in the series...  Adams seriously
        diluted the ideas put forth in the two radio series in order to
        pad out the Trilogy.

        The forth and fifth books were fine examples of the art of
        Beating a Dead Horse.


ùANATúô:  Publican
---
 þ Ôystertags v1.2 þ Where two blocks of ice melt into my hands like dice,

~~~ ReneWave v2.00 [NR]
--- Smile :)
 * Origin: * The Beast's Lair * (804)498-3070 * Va Beach VA * (1:275/160)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 158 of 584
 From : Owen E. Oulton                      1:243/45        .åò 05 .åí 96 14:26
 To   : Brion Lienhart
 Subj : Re: SOUND SUPRESSORS
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 BL> Are you a shooter Leman? I am, and I'm pretty sure that Owen is too.

Haven't actually used a firearm since I got out of the Militia (up here in
Canada, that term is used for the Canadian Armed Forces Primary Reserves, our
equivalent of the National Guard), but I keep current with developments.  The
only projectile weapon I currently own is a BB-rifle, and I only got that
recently because I missed the discipline of shooting.  However, I was one of the
original 18 Militia Small Arms Coaches back in the '70's, trained by instructors
from the Combat Arms School from CFB Gagetown, and I haven't forgotten the
basics <G>.

 BL> The main problem with shooting in a vacuum would be vacuum welding of the
 BL> action.

Yep, that would be a problem (of course, if you're in zero gee, recoil would
also be a problem).  To avoid vacuum welding, I suspect that you'd want as much
polymer and carbon composite construction as is practicable in the weapon,
as well as a hard teflon or similar finish on all mating metal surfaces, and
a real good dry lubricant.  Ammo development would be rather interesting, too,
since the current crop of hollow-points and other expanding ammo would be (pun
intended) pointless.  In a vacuum, most of the ammo would probably be designed
as high-velocity solid bodied penetrators, specifically to punch holes in space
suits and vehicle cabins.  Other factors which would influence weapons design
would be such things as heat dissipation in auto-fire weapons (infrared
radiation is *WAY* too slow, and in a vacuum comnventional convection methods
would be useless), sights (extreme variation in light conditions and distances),
recoil stabilisation (zero or low-gee), etc...  I suspect that caseless ammo,
probably electrically fired, would be the rule, at least until gauss weapons
became practicable.

CFN, O

--- Maximus 2.01wb
 * Origin: Pandora's Box, Ottawa, Ont. 613-829-1209 (1:243/45)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 159 of 584
 From : Michael Harper                      1:123/10        .pä 04 .åí 96 08:44
 To   : Jeff Hancock
 Subj : Japanese SF
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
While sipping a dry martini, Jeff Hancock told Michael Harper about Japanese
SF...

 JH> I wind up changing it somewhat nearly every time I send out a copy.
 JH> ;)
 JH> As long as you've got the one with the "new" pricing structure (i.e.
 JH> 7/11/14/etc, not $5 per), then the only other changes have to do with
 JH> adding titles.

 I think I do; I'll have to look...

 JH> Haven't removed anything yet, but I guess I'm going to have to drop
 JH> some or all of the Miyazaki films, since apparently the Disney rumors
 JH> are true.  My main problem is that I don't know *which* ones they
 JH> bought the rights to.  I'm almost positive that the Lupin film isn't
 JH> one of them, but some or all of the others are.

 Oh, Jesus... I've gotta get at a copy of Hollywood Reporter and see if
 there's anything on it... and I have a contact at Warner who keeps up
 with that sort of thing; maybe he can give me some details...

 I'm outta work again, but I'm planning on going back to work in the
 next week if possible. I want all the Miyazaki you've got before the
 Mouse comes up with their bastardized versions.

 JH> Other than that, just various additions as I get new tapes in, and
 JH> hopefully get them watched. ;)

 I dig that, too. I bummed a buncha stuff off a pal here in town, and
 sometime soon I've got to give them back; two tapes of New Dominion
 Tank Police, the first two Dragon Knight episodes, and Ghost In The
 Shell, all good stuff. The Dominion stuff was standard Masamune, both
 funny and serious, and the Dragon Knight tapes were good middleweight
 semiporn fantasy. My only complaint is that A.D. seems to have edited
 the second one a bit, probably in order to make it more saleable;
 there's an oral sex scene where they matted out the girl's body,
 leaving the guy licking empty space...

 JH> Sometimes I have trouble enough with my English.  <g>  It would be
 JH> nice if I had someone to talk to who could correct any mistakes; just
 JH> so I don't wind up learning the wrong pronunciation.

 Find a Japanese exchange student or someone else who speaks it as a
 first language; they're out there, and a lot of them are willing to do
 some tutoring in order to earn a few extra bucks. Check with the local
 university...

 MH> See, that's my curse... I can never forget anything for long, no
 MH> matter how hard I try...

 JH> I think I'd like a dose of that.  ;>

 It's not as attractive as it sounds; I can still remember arguments I
 had with a girl I dated twenty years ago. The flip side being that I
 can still remember the good times as well, and in graphic detail...

 MH> Then there's DS9, with its villains, the Dominion.

 JH> I'd never thought to connect that with the Tank Police.

 I didn't either, at first. I think that one was inadvertant...

 MH>And in an early TNG episode the Enterprise's sister ship was named
 MH>the Yamato, although I think they had something else in mind there...

 JH> I understand it was named after the original Japanese battleship, just
 JH> as the anime version was.  (although I heard somewhere that the anime
 JH> version was supposed to *be* the original, just massively rebuilt)

 It was; the first few episodes of Yamato have Alex Wildstar trucking
 around in the wastelands of what used to be the Sea of Japan and
 finding what's left of the Yamato; next thing you know, they're
 rebuilding and refitting her into a spacegoing version... those
 episodes made me think seriously about landing methods for heavy
 spacegoing vessels. Being aquacapable makes a hell of a lot of sense
 for a large ship; landing on the surface may or may not be possible,
 but if you've got a large enough body of water, and a strong enough
 hull, you can always float...

 JH> The one bright spot is that I believe it's being funded by Disney but
 JH> put together by another company.  Toy Story managed to escape some of
 JH> the usual Disney tomfoolery, so SB might too.  But I wouldn't count on
 JH> it. ;-)

 I wouldn't either... Pixar had a lot of Toy Story ready to go, and
 managed, God knows how, to get Hanks and Allen to agree to be in it if
 Disney said go, and managed to get the Mouse to agree; but the days
 when Disney was an innovator are mostly gone. TRON was their last big
 gamble before TS, and that was almost an accident. Disney needs a chief
 exec who's willing to pay people what they're worth and has no
 compunctions about taking chances...

 JH> It's bad enough they're doing Starship Troopers.  What do you want to
 JH> bet that some day they'll turn their attention to the Dirty Pair?

 Highly unlikely anytime soon; Kei and Yuri are too racy for the Mouse's
 tastes right now. Sadly, I can see it happening some years down the
 road; I pray that it doesn't happen while Eisner is running things...


... "It's amazing how fast you can run when you're a dog." -Joe Dominguez
--- RA/FD/FMail
 * Origin: The Eclectic Fox -- Memphis TN  (901)327-1008 (1:123/10)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 160 of 584
 From : Michael Harper                      1:123/10        .pä 04 .åí 96 23:02
 To   : Peter McNeill
 Subj : Sound supressors
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
While sipping a dry martini, Peter McNeill told Michael Harper about
Sound supressors...

 PM> Ahhhh..... I see. Now that's a different kettle of fish. I always get
 PM> a chuckle out of <especially tv shows> the villian/goodguy pulling out
 PM> his silenced .44 magnum and hearing this little "phufttt"....

 Exactamundo! It invariably annoys me, because I know more than your
 average bear about such things. I mean, fer Christ's sake, Hollywood,
 do yer research...

 One of my other respondents in this thread mentioned seeing/hearing a
 major flub in _The Shadow_; in an early scene, Cranston orders some
 enemies killed, and the foley techs very precisely inserted the sound
 of empty casings hitting the floor after ejected from an autoloader.
 Problem was, the guys in the scene were using revolvers... <snarf!>


... On the next Oprah:  What Vulcans do for the other six years.
--- RA/FD/FMail
 * Origin: The Eclectic Fox -- Memphis TN  (901)327-1008 (1:123/10)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 161 of 584
 From : Earl Green                          1:3822/1        .åò 05 .åí 96 13:01
 To   : All
 Subj : B5 wins the Hugo!
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
As you may or may not have already heard, Babylon 5 has won the Yugo for
Best Dramatic Presentation with the episode "The Coming of Shadows."  It
beat out DS9's "The Visitor," "12 Monkeys," "Toy Story" and "Apollo 13"
for this honor.
   Oh wait...that's not a Yugo, JMS can't drive.  It's a Hugo. <G>
---
 * SLMR 2.0 * I hope the pizza wasn't damaged in the collision.  - JCC

--- QScan/PCB v1.19b / 01-0162
 * Origin: Jackalope Junction 501-785-5381 Ft Smith AR (1:3822/1)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 162 of 584
 From : Patrick Duda                        1:218/801       .îí 02 .åí 96 16:35
 To   : Michel Fortin
 Subj : Independence Day
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12  91-0018

-> You're on to semething here... I also see a 'worst case scenario':
-> they leave the home planet, get to earth, everything is fine and is
-> done on 'automatic interstellar pilot' (also called auto-pilot by
-> insiders),

 That needs to be done. A computer-parody alien-invader thing. Not in
writing, those gags only work on the screen. Heh heh, that's be good.

 Actually, I did have my mouse die once with windoze. U can use the
Accessibilty options to emulate a mouse with the kb. Anyway,

 I can see them stuck in orbit trying to figure out how to boot to
DOS. Then they can't find the WARPDRIV.BAT file..

--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12
 * Origin: Star Tech Diamond Bar, CA 909-396-4227 714-257-1175  (1:218/801.0)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 163 of 584
 From : Patrick Duda                        1:218/801       .îí 02 .åí 96 16:45
 To   : Jeff Hancock
 Subj : Japanese SF
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12  91-0018

-> Maybe we should go ahead and start a vote for the best, or at least,
-> favorite... in various categories, of course.  And even then, dunno

 Best Overall Anime: Macross, Super Dimernsional Fortress. The best
series i've seen, animated or not.

 Best Comedy Anime: Roujin Z. The only anime i've laughed uncontrollably
at.

 Best Action Anime: Akira. Non-stop action, and hey, it deserves some
sort of award.

 Best Manga Translation: Dragon Ball. (original)

 Best Effects (wow factor): Tie between Ghost in the Shell and Macross
Plus.

 Worst anime: DYRL english, runner up, probably Mad Bull.
 I'd watch either the first time, but not again.

 Best Storyline: ??? What about wings of Hommenaise?

--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12
 * Origin: Star Tech Diamond Bar, CA 909-396-4227 714-257-1175  (1:218/801.0)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 164 of 584
 From : Patrick Duda                        1:218/801       .îí 02 .åí 96 16:49
 To   : Jeff Hancock
 Subj : Japanese SF
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12  91-0018

-> Don't ask me, I haven't seen it.  ;)  But the real point is, does it
-> tell an entertaining story?  And is it internally self-consistant?

 But it's not (talking about cheep american cartoons). It looks like it
uses whatever is convienient to forward the story with a minimum of
thought. You have to see it, I guess.  With the other anime, when people
cry gushes of water, or things like that, it's funny, you don'y go 'yeah
right' because it blends in with the style.

-> I don't remember that one specifically, but I wonder, was the last
-> seven minutes good because the other 38 minutes were simply building
-> up to that?  Or could you have watched JUST the seven minutes and
-> gotten the

 WEll, I would have liked it since it was a big battle scene. Of course
you couldn't have just seen a part of it and not understood, it's just
that we spent an hour watching it and only one or two things was done.
It was a waste of time, IMO. The whole hour and all we established was
that a certain character could have feelings for another, with
everything else going on in the background being dropped after that was
done.

--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12
 * Origin: Star Tech Diamond Bar, CA 909-396-4227 714-257-1175  (1:218/801.0)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 165 of 584
 From : Patrick Duda                        1:218/801       .îí 02 .åí 96 16:56
 To   : Jeff Hancock
 Subj : Macross 7
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12  91-0018

-> Yeah, I heard somewhere about one of the series essentially being
-> about two test pilots competing for the love of a woman, and testing
-> out some

 You're kidding. Please tell me you don't mean that. You HAVE to, you
just HAVE TO love Macross! Don't tell me you've been deprived! :)

  I just rented the first part of MAcrossII, and it's really not in the
same league as the first. It's kinda silly, really. It says on the box
it occurs 80 years after DYRL. They use the 'minmei attack' to pacify
hostile Zentradi. It's done by USRenditions, and the quality is
hot/cold. It sounded like (the humans are dubbed, the music and
ishtarians are subtitled japanese) they hired some okay voice actors for
the main characters and had them do the voices for everyone else too,
badly.

 Anyway after Macross, the Southern Cross, and Mospeada, is macross 2 (i
didn'y like DYRL, it was just a hack of my favorite series), then
Macross Plus which is an 8 episode story about two guys compeing over
planes and a woman, who was a mutual friend of theirs in youth. It's
nicely done, although the story is a little lame.
 After that, comes Macross7, which is about a bunch of weird pod cities
that get sent out to colonize and stuff, and inevitably encounter all
sorts of problems. M7 is to my knowlege a series done like the first
MAcross. LONG!

--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12
 * Origin: Star Tech Diamond Bar, CA 909-396-4227 714-257-1175  (1:218/801.0)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 166 of 584
 From : Patrick Duda                        1:218/801       .îí 02 .åí 96 16:59
 To   : James Dixon
 Subj : Klingons
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12  91-0018

-> PD>possible alliance with the romulans? This could be an explanation
-> for PD>the pale klingons.
->
-> Nah, you're probably thinking of the renegade Klingons in "Heart of
-> Glory" and/or the Duras sisters seen in later seasons... These were

 That sounds like it, but they were some sorta seperate clan exiled from
homeworld.

-> Humans... So there shouldn't be separate physical or racial
-> types--beyond breeding outside their own people of course (which I
-> guess

  Argh. I'm trying to HELP here... ;)
    There's a _medical manual_? Geez, how many treknology books are
there? I have the tech guides from both enterprizes, and I though it was
complete!

--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12
 * Origin: Star Tech Diamond Bar, CA 909-396-4227 714-257-1175  (1:218/801.0)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 167 of 584
 From : Frank Swarbrick                     1:104/825       .pä 04 .åí 96 19:42
 To   : James Dixon
 Subj : V
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12  92-0022
On 09-02-96  09:15, shipwrecked and comatose, James Dixon said:

 FS>Well, if you've when watching the V series you'll see that it really
 FS>isn't all that good, and doesn't live up to any potential it may have.
 FS>It's not terrible, but it's not anywhere near as good as Alien Nation.
 FS>[Plenty of explosions, though.  :-)]

 JD> Personally, I don't know what anyone sees in either of the two
 JD> series...
 JD> V was shoot em up nonsense where the goodies always won and, under
 JD> close analysis, was really far-fetched and corny... Take for instance
 JD> the way the little girl regenerated into an older woman in the series
 JD> pilot... And then there's the whole silly theme of these space lizards
 JD> wearing Human costumes and rubber masks--and not only being Attracted
 JD> to us Humans but Mating with us (and, as is accepted these days in TV
 JD> SF, there's no problem with Human-alien hybrids)! Then there was that
 JD> resistance alien who died early-on and was brought back later in the
 JD> series as his Brother (uh, right, just because an alien decides to
 JD> wear an Identical mask as a traitor, he's the alien's Brother!)... Then
 JD> to make things even more silly, the villainess Diana gets a boyfriend
 JD> named Charles--get it? Charles and Diana! Fans of the series of course
 JD> tried to justify all this by saying it was a Nazi Germany
 JD> parallel...but I don't think that can justify all those scenes of
 JD> aliens gulping down mice, birds, insects--anything they could get their
 JD> hands on...
 JD> Alien Nation, on the other hand, hid behind race-relations themes...
 JD> It also blew the science at least as badly as V and pulled the same
 JD> gimmick which an even worse series (Something Is Out There, if
 JD> you can remember it!) pulled: adding more and more super-human
 JD> gimmicks to the aliens as the series progressed, including mystical
 JD> bull galore... I won't list them, because I'm running out of room
 JD> here... But, like V, I never cared for Any of the characters in this
 JD> series... It was a cop show with runaround episodes, mostly... And fell
 JD> apart with such things as the Newcomers' acidic reaction to salt (well,
 JD> what's all this about the aliens dating and having sex with Humans all
 JD> the time, eh? Human saliva and semen would Kill them!)...

I won't dispute the "bad science" of either show, especially V, but to
be honest I really don't care much about it.  I'll agree that V is
rather corny, and wasn't all that great, but it was OK.  The episodes
seem to be going over the same ground over and over without adding
anything new, which is rather tiring.

As for Alien Nation, I don't see how you can say it "hid" behind the
race-relations theme.  It didn't hide; that's what it's about!  As for
it being a cop show with runaround episodes (whatever), that may be
true, but I think it does it very well.  I did watch Something Is Out
There on the SciFi Channel a few months ago and it is *much* worse in
this manner.  Most of the episodes didn't even need the "alien
factor."  This can not be said for AN.  There is always a "cop" story,
but it is only used as a basis for the characters reactions to it.
One thing that got rather tiring was the bad guy newcomer always
seemed to be an Overseer, but I haven't noticed that as much in the
episodes I've seen recently.  And regarding the human/newcomer mating,
of course it's not realistic, but the Matt/Cathy relationship is one
of my favorite parts of the show.

Obviously we look for different things in our SF shows, but I think
that AN is one of the best shows I've ever seen.

        Frank

... Her love was like a wave-division multiplexor.
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12
 * Origin: The Bailey Information Exchange BBS, 28.8k v.fc  (1:104/825.0)

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 Msg  : 168 of 584
 From : Frank Swarbrick                     1:104/825       .pä 04 .åí 96 19:47
 To   : Patty Moniz
 Subj : on Sci-Fi Channel
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12  92-0022
On 09-03-96  10:47, shipwrecked and comatose, Patty Moniz said:

 PM> ---On 08-28-96  21:32, Frank Swarbrick chatted about on Sci-Fi
 PM> Channel...

 FS> Red Dwarf is currently airing on our local PBS station here in Denver.
 FS> This is the first time I've seen the show, and I like it a lot.  Just
 FS> saw "Back To Reality," so only one more season to go apparently.

 PM> Lucky!  It just doesn't come on at all over here anymore.  It stoped
 PM> airing  just as I was getting into it, too! :(

Do you, or anyone, know what the deal with series six is?  After "Back
To Reality," the end of series five, my local station started again
with the first episode, "The End."  Is it just that they haven't
purchased series six or is it not available in the U.S.?  Hmmm...

Speaking of seeing "The End" again, I liked it *much* better the
second time around.  I didn't think it was all that good the first
time, but now that I know the characters and stuff I really liked it.

By the by, I watched Homeboys In Outer Space last night.  I swear the
half-android/half-human waiter sounds just like Kryten.  Does anyone
know if it's the same actor?

As for the show, it was ok, but nothing special...  I'll watch it if I
have nothing else to do, but I won't seek it out especially.

        Frank

... I am become Death, Destroyer of Worlds.
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12
 * Origin: The Bailey Information Exchange BBS, 28.8k v.fc  (1:104/825.0)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 169 of 584
 From : Stephen Simmons                     1:275/160       .åò 05 .åí 96 20:02
 To   : Frank Glover
 Subj : Re: Klingons
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE 1.11+
 ÕÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍµFrank Glover wrote:

FG> the main difference is that Earthers *like* to
FG> fight, and  Klingons *love* to fight.

SS>  Have to agree with that assessment.  I think a contributing
SS>  factor to the confusion is that "Honor" is only half of the
SS>  Klingon ideal.  They also place a very large emphasis on "Glory".

FG>Probably right. Kor hinted at this, too, when it was clear that the
FG>Organians wern't going to let a war start. "A shame, Captain...it
FG>would  have been glorious!" That is, Klingons go in assuming victory,
FG>but each  one gets to *prove* themselves individually, and this would
FG>have a  major effect on their status in the `New Galactic Order,' to
FG>coin a  phrase. Lots of gutsy Klingons out there who, through no fault
FG>of their  own, just never have the chance to prove it. Some may even
FG>`invent'  some opprotunites (like the two Klingons who wanted WOrf to
FG>help them  commandeer the battle section of the Enterprise-D, and go
FG>kick butt,  even though there were no hostilites otherwise.) that fly
FG>in the face  of other concerns. Even Klingons can't ignore
FG>diplomacy...though they  may view it the same way Khan did. (War
FG>carried out by other means.)
FG>This starts to look like Niven's Kizinti, too. War as (among other
FG>things) a chance for personal glory and post-war status. And you may
FG>even *get* the glory, but in the end, your side keeps losing against
FG>humans....
FG>
FG>And this may be because humans in both universes (and Earth does
FG>seem to be in charge of Federation strategy and tactics in the Trek
FG>Universe) are less glory-oriented (though we still respect and award
FG>valor and gallantry), and more victory-oriented than our adversaries.
FG>If `ho-hum' tactics that don't give much of a chance for individual
FG>glory to be gained will work, we go that route. Klingons (and Kizinti)
FG>see this as something akin to an unfair fight.....

FG>Frank

This reminds me of a RoboTech novel I read about a year ago.
Of course, I can't recall the title at the moment, and it
wasn't mione so I can't just go look it up, either. Oh, well.
The setup was a protracted space war between humans and an
alien race which placed ultimate emphasis on indiviual glory,
fairly similar to the Klingon/Kizinti mindset.  The humans
won the war by destroying supply ships and repair bases,
based on the "For want of a nail ..." principle.  It worked
primarily because the aliens couldn't comprehend why any
warriors would even consider attacking such demeaning
targets.  Sounded a lot like the Klingon Empire of old to me
while I was reading it.

TNG Klingons, on the other hand, seem to have become quite a
bit more cosmopolitan in their thinking.  Not only do
they display a much better grasp of human tactics, but they
also seem to have drifted a lot closer to the old Romulan
methods of infiltration and deceit.  Even Worf does it, and
is praised as a Klingon in his own right for doing so.  Don't
know the name of the episode, but it involved a research
exercise with Riker commanding a disarmed hulk engaged in
mock combat with the Enterprise.  Worf over-rode the
Enterprise's sensor array remotely to input a false image of
an approaching Klingon, distracting Picard and allowing Riker
to score several hits from behind.  Hardly in keeping with
the high honor code the keep prattling about.

By the way, you're Net info says you're from near my old
stomping grounds.  Grew up near Cooperstown, used to
vacation outside Oswego.  How are things going back there?

Steve.


Blackjack - Have Pun, Will Travel
... C'mon! I'll fight you with one foot tied behind my teeth!

~~~ ReneWave v2.00 [NR]
--- Smile :)
 * Origin: * The Beast's Lair * (804)498-3070 * Va Beach VA * (1:275/160)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 170 of 584
 From : Owen E. Oulton                      1:243/45        .åò 05 .åí 96 20:01
 To   : Kay Shapero
 Subj : Re: Klingons
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 JD>the TOS and TNG Klingons are one and the same, that their change in
 JD>physical appearance is due entirely to inadequate funds in the 60s!

 KS> I should imagine the true explanation is that they
 KS> simply wanted to have fun with makeup when they did
 KS> the movie.  But yeah, that doesn't fit "the game".

The simple fact is that if they'd had the funds in the '60's there would never
have been *ANY* Klingons.  Klingons were developed as a low-cost alternative to
lots 'n' lots of expensive Romulan ears.  John Colicos has remarked that when he
went into makeup as Kor (the very first non-extra Klingon), they didn't even
have a design, and that the "Mongol Hordes" look was the result of suggestions
he made to the makeup people.

'Course, the Klingon fans don't like having this pointed (pun not intended) out.

CFN, O

--- Maximus 2.01wb
 * Origin: Pandora's Box, Ottawa, Ont. 613-829-1209 (1:243/45)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 171 of 584
 From : Owen E. Oulton                      1:243/45        .åò 05 .åí 96 20:05
 To   : Phill Ash
 Subj : Klingons
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 PA>         Early memos about the depiction of Klingons used such terms as
 PA>         "...beat up their own mothers" and "...fart in airlocks".

Nope.  Those quotes come from David Gerrold's description long after the fact,
in The World Of Star Trek.

CFN, O

--- Maximus 2.01wb
 * Origin: Pandora's Box, Ottawa, Ont. 613-829-1209 (1:243/45)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 172 of 584
 From : Mark Holtz                          1:203/1701      .åò 05 .åí 96 17:32
 To   : All
 Subj : Goodbye, Farewell, God Bless!
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
With this post, I sever my ties to FidoNet and turn off my BBS.

I won't say that I'll never return. Never say never.

A copy of my goodbye message can be found at:
ftp://ftp.calweb.com/users/m/mholtz

No idea where it can be FREQed at.....

It has been fun....

--- MsgPost 1.1
 * Origin: Deep Space Franchise (916) 721-1701 (1:203/1701)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 173 of 584
 From : Frank Glover                        1:2613/477      .åò 05 .åí 96 22:12
 To   : Bobby Rissler
 Subj : Re: Favourite Trek movie of a
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

BR>  BR>  cool when spock mind-melded with the whale.  All the other times
BR>  we
BR>  BR>  saw a vulcan mind-meld it was with another humanoid.
BR>   FG>
BR>   FG>    The silicon-based Horta? The artificial
BR>   FG> intelligences of Nomad and V'ger?
BR>   FG>
BR>    I'll agree with V'ger but what is the artifical intelligence of
BR>  Nomad.  What episode is that.  I have not got all of the episodes in
BR>  my collection yet.

   That would be `The Changeling.' It involves a space probe sent from 21st
century Earth that's damaged by a metero impact, encounters an alien probe
(called Tan-Ru, as Spock learns during the meld), they repair and merge with
each other, but with confused programming with regard to mission goals. Nomad's
programming won out mostly, but it has the immense power the alien probe has,
and is returning to Earth, sterilizing `imperfect' life forms along the
way...and mistakes James Kirk for its creator/designier Jackson Roykirk....

   Sound familiar? This is why some people describe ST:TMP as `where Nomad has
gone before...'

   But where V'ger was an exteremly large construct, Nomad was hardly bigger
than a breadbox. See the episode when you can.

   Frank


--- QuickBBS 2.85 (Beta-1) GoldBase
 * Origin: The Matrix Data Bank BBS, Rochester, Ny (1:2613/477)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 174 of 584
 From : Frank Glover                        1:2613/477      .åò 05 .åí 96 22:21
 To   : Brion Lienhart
 Subj : Re: Anyone know about upcomin
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

BL>  However, the latest M-KW book I've seen is _Darker Geometries_ by
BL>  Gregory Benford, and umm, some other guy. It's about the ship Sun-Tzu
BL>  on a mission to Alpha Centauri during the first war when they run
BL>  into some Kzin halfway there. At least three quarters of it has been
BL>  in the previous M-KW books. It's mostly about the effects the battles
BL>  of the war have in pissing off the Outsiders.

   The book in question is by Mark O. Martin, and Gregory Benford. I glanced at
it in a Barnes & Noble just yesterday. Can't recall the title either, but while
it's about Niven's Known Space, it's not strictly in the Man-Kzin Wars series.

   Frank


--- QuickBBS 2.85 (Beta-1) GoldBase
 * Origin: The Matrix Data Bank BBS, Rochester, Ny (1:2613/477)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 175 of 584
 From : Frank Glover                        1:2613/477      .åò 05 .åí 96 22:25
 To   : Brion Lienhart
 Subj : Re: Homeboys In Outer Splech!
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

BL>   -HT>This (Homeboys in OS) was truly, horribly, awfully, bad.
BL>   -HT>It was so bad that it wasn't funny as /bad/ TV.
BL>
BL>  Unless I missed something, Jimmy "Oh Lord, do I need a Job" Doohan
BL>  wasn't even in the credits. It will probably die on it's own.

   Yeah. Just once I'd *like* to see Jimmy do something other than a  variation
of Scotty. He's come to live with the type casting, but I think *he'd* find it a
refreshing change, too.

   Frank


--- QuickBBS 2.85 (Beta-1) GoldBase
 * Origin: The Matrix Data Bank BBS, Rochester, Ny (1:2613/477)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 176 of 584
 From : Frank Glover                        1:2613/477      .åò 05 .åí 96 22:29
 To   : Bob Klahn
 Subj : Re: BY FORCE OF ARMS
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

BK>   Remember, a surgeon may want to cure your condition, but first he
BK>  has to cut
BK>   you open.

   Well put.

   Frank


--- QuickBBS 2.85 (Beta-1) GoldBase
 * Origin: The Matrix Data Bank BBS, Rochester, Ny (1:2613/477)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 177 of 584
 From : Frank Glover                        1:2613/477      .åò 05 .åí 96 22:33
 To   : Michael Harper
 Subj : Re: Japanese SF
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

MH>   semiporn fantasy. My only complaint is that A.D. seems to have
MH>  edited
MH>   the second one a bit, probably in order to make it more saleable;
MH>   there's an oral sex scene where they matted out the girl's body,
MH>   leaving the guy licking empty space...

   (From 2010) Dave Bowman's introduction to oral sex:

   "My God! It's full of stars!"


   Sorry, I *couldn't* let that pass...!

   Frank


--- QuickBBS 2.85 (Beta-1) GoldBase
 * Origin: The Matrix Data Bank BBS, Rochester, Ny (1:2613/477)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 178 of 584
 From : Frank Glover                        1:2613/477      .åò 05 .åí 96 22:37
 To   : Phill Ash
 Subj : Re: Klingons
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

PA>          I've heard rumors that imply they're ditching the "Lost in
PA>          Space" motif...  I'll wait for more before I begin
PA>  perpetuating
PA>          them, though...

   I've heard that Voyager will at least finally leave the Kazon sphere of
influence. That alone wouldbe a step up....

   Frank


--- QuickBBS 2.85 (Beta-1) GoldBase
 * Origin: The Matrix Data Bank BBS, Rochester, Ny (1:2613/477)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 179 of 584
 From : Kay Shapero                         1:102/524       .åò 05 .åí 96 11:28
 To   : Bobby Rissler
 Subj : Favourite Trek movie of a
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Sep 02 21:46>, Bobby Rissler (1:270/435) wrote to James Dixon:

 BR>  Thats true.  A lot of the things that they did in ST IV would
 BR>have really messed things up.  Think though,  if they went back
 BR>in time and brought the whales into the future, what reason would
 BR>they have for ever going back in time in the first place.  Since
 BR>there was no longer a reason to go back, they never would have
 BR>left.  But if they never went back then the whales would never
 BR>have been brought to the future.  It would be an endless loop.

Nope; if you can change history at all, the backtrail of subjective time of the
time travellers themselves is not affected - they get to Earth, find it's blown
up (or about to be - been awhile since I saw the movie), go back in time,
collect the whales, come forward, deliver the whales, the Earth does not get
blown up, and then continue on.  Sorta like this:

original objective timeline

----->---------------------------------*------------------------------->--

                                       ^explosion
crew's subjective timeline
--------------------------------->-----*-------V
          V----------------------<-------------V
          V------------------->------@-------------------------------->
                                     ^
                                     whales talk to V'ger

final objective timeline
-------------------------------------@---------------------------------->

Just a bit of temporal cut-and-paste

Mind you, there are a lot of other little events in the interval in question
that will have also changed; V'ger's actions had roots well outside of the
interval so it would likely still have turned up, but Kirk & co. could easily
have come back to find a seriously changed Earth.  Maybe one with plenty of
whales, but no Starfleet?

If I had been writing the series, I'd have had Kirk encounter at least one
totally unexpected change at the end of the movie, and them sprinkled a few more
of 'em in in the later movies.  Little things that wouldn't be apparent at first
- slight changes in uniform details, a different picture on the wall here, a
differently shaped building there, an ugly statue replaced by an even uglier
one, some character passing out leaflets at the starport about the miraculous
apparition of the God of Whales before a whaling crew.... :->


--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 180 of 584
 From : Bobby Rissler                       1:270/435       .åò 05 .åí 96 17:51
 To   : Glenn Shaheen
 Subj : Favourite Trek Movie
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

BR>  What exactly are the figures then.  I got these
BR> at a Star trek conventi
BR>by one of the production staff of the show.  And
BR>sorry, they were made a
BR>little after the 60's.  The show was in the 60's though.
 GS>         10 years after the 60s.

 Yes, the movies were made then.  The first film made about 150 million and the
fourth one made about 120 million.  Sorry if I upset you!


--- Maximus 3.01
 * Origin: The Good News BBS  Bowmansville, PA (1:270/435)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 181 of 584
 From : Bobby Rissler                       1:270/435       .åò 05 .åí 96 17:53
 To   : Glenn Shaheen
 Subj : Douglas Adams
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 GS>         I've read all 5 of the Hitchhikers trilogy. Some of the best
 GS> comedy I've ever read. The tv series was pretty good, also. I haven't
 GS> been able to find a copy of the radio series anywhere, though. I've
 GS> heard it's great.

  Did you play any of the computer games that were made by INFOCOM.  They are
pretty neat.  There is a copy of it at my school for the apple IIGS computers.


--- Maximus 3.01
 * Origin: The Good News BBS  Bowmansville, PA (1:270/435)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 182 of 584
 From : Bobby Rissler                       1:270/435       .åò 05 .åí 96 17:55
 To   : Todd Sullivan
 Subj : Trek movies
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 BR>   I agree, a lot of critics are probably not fans
 BR> of star trek.  They
 BR> then give the movie a poor rating, this then directly affects the
 BR> amount of people that go to see the movie.

 TS> And a lot of us are.  We know quality when we see it,
 TS> and have learned to expect it.  And some people wonder
 TS> why DS9 and Voyager took such a pasting at our hands.
 TS> They're not up to TOS standards, unless the writing
 TS> improves and the Politically Correct BS goes in the
 TS> dumpster where it belongs.

  I know what you mean.  Voyager deals a lot more with emotion and conflict and
less with action and adventure.  Like that episode with tuvix.  It had more
emotion then was neccesary.


--- Maximus 3.01
 * Origin: The Good News BBS  Bowmansville, PA (1:270/435)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 183 of 584
 From : David Johnston                      1:342/14        .ÿò 06 .åí 96 00:10
 To   : Phill Ash
 Subj : Klingons
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
-> DJ> Yes it does.  Starfleet has repeatedly misrepresented both it's
-> own DJ> nature and the nature of the society it represents.  Perhaps
-> the most DJ> obvious example is the Starfleet claim that it is not a
-> military
->       Define "military organisation"...

A military organisation is an armed and uniformed service which protects
and/or expands the boundaries of a society.


->       I interpret that to mean "We are not a dictatorship"

Canada has a military.  It is not a dictatorship.

-> DJ> organisation, but their claim to have eliminated poverty is
-> equally DJ> specious.
->       Nothing has been demonstrated to suggest otherwise (has it?)

The Federation consists of many different societies of varying
technology and prosperity.  Within it's bounds it also contains many
non-member societies some of whom are poor indeed.  That's without even
going into the refugee camps of displaced persons going without blankets
or food.  Earth has very likely eliminated poverty, in the sense of
starvation and lack of shelter.  But poverty is a relative term.  Vache,
for example, had to swindle someone to get enough money to afford an
interstellar passage.  And even more importantly, there is more to the
Federation than Earth, and if every single world was only allowed into
the Federation once they had eliminated all social ills, I would expect
the Federation to have...say...about four or five members.  What if
Bajor was allowed into the Federation?  Apparently the only things
keeping it out are political instability and uncertainty about whether
it wants in the first place.  But if they were allowed in, it seems
unlikely that Bajor's poverty would magically disappear.

--- PCBoard (R) v15.21/100
 * Origin: Freddy's Place - Edm. AB - 33.6K (403) 413-3460 (1:342/14)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 184 of 584
 From : David Johnston                      1:342/14        .ÿò 06 .åí 96 01:02
 To   : Dave Ewen
 Subj : Favourite Trek Movie Of A
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
-> TS>I vote for Wrath of Khan.
->
-> DE> That stunk. Was pointlessly violent. I vote for movie #1.
->
-> DJ>Why is a pointless movie that has violence worse than one that
-> doesn't?
-> Oh, maybe seeing all the additional bad acting...?

Violence doesn't add bad acting.

--- PCBoard (R) v15.21/100
 * Origin: Freddy's Place - Edm. AB - 33.6K (403) 413-3460 (1:342/14)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 185 of 584
 From : Bill Clements                       1:18/230        .pä 04 .åí 96 14:08
 To   : Leman Russ
 Subj : SOUND SUPRESSORS
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
From the desk of a cynical old man...

Posted 03 Sep 96 - Leman Russ to Owen E. Oulton

 LR>  The powder in a bullet does not, Ahem, fillthe entire shellcase and
 LR> in fact there is a lot of air inthe case.

I've explained this issue once in this echo. However ...

Text recycled from 11 Apr 96

  Most chemical explosives are self oxidizing and do not use the
  surrounding atmosphere in any way. Black Powder is made up of
  three components:

    9 parts Charcoal                      * Moderator

    2 parts Sulphur                       * Fuel

    2 parts Potassium Nitrate (Saltpeter) * Oxidizer

  These ingredients are powdered, mixed, wet, and tamped into forms
  to produce cakes. The cakes when dry are ground and screened to
  form a powder of uniform grain. The resulting powder burns with
  sufficient rapidness to explode quite satisfactorily when ignited
  in an enclosed reaction chamber.

  Simple Black Powder with a suitable ignition system will explode
  in a vacuum or, given that is kept dry, under water.

I suggest that you considerably broaden the material that you
read in an effort of self education.

--rwc

... "Do not handicap your children by making their lives easy." --LL

--- PPoint 2.00 / QWK

--- FLAME v1.1
 * Origin: ANCESTRY TBBS Shadows of forgotten ancestors 941-382-9061 (1:18/230)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 186 of 584
 From : Josh Hill                           1:388/9         .pä 04 .åí 96 18:54
 To   : David Johnston
 Subj : Independence Day (bel
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Yeah.

--- TriToss (tm) Professional 10.0 - #184
 * Origin: By Appointment Only, 817-756-1032, Waco TX (1:388/9.0)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 187 of 584
 From : J.T. Smith                          1:132/152       .pä 04 .åí 96 05:20
 To   : Bobby Rissler
 Subj : Douglas Adams
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.SPTH: Fidonet#1:132/152
From a man who's physically phht.

 BR> I was wondering if anyone else has read any books by Douglas Adams.
 BR> The best know book that he has written is entitled The Hitchhikers
 BR> Guide to the Galaxy.  I thought this was a really good book.  There
 BR> are many other books in the series that were also good.

 Read his stuff, loved it, and still looking for more!!!!  Although it's nae
 SF, ye could try "The Meaning Of Liff" by Douglas Adams and John Lloyd.
 It's basically a new "dictionary" of sorts.  Also good were the Dirk Gently
 books by him.


... KLEPTOMANIAC: (n) A rich thief.
--- AdeptXBBS v1.08a25 (VC) (Registered)
 * Origin: The Cereal Port BBS (603)899-3335 199.125.78.133 (1:132/152)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 188 of 584
 From : Leman Russ                          1:2250/7        .pä 04 .åí 96 15:25
 To   : Peter Mcneill
 Subj : Re: Sound supressors
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 PM> Guess I'll have to leave other for you to steal....

 PM> ... Chia Jesus: Grow your own Messiah. (Just add holy water.)

 Boy, your ass had better be watching out for lightning. :)

>:[

--- DLG Pro v1.0/DLGMail
 * Origin: Sage's Tower - Amiga - (618) 259-1844 (1:2250/7)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 189 of 584
 From : Leman Russ                          1:2250/7        .åò 05 .åí 96 04:41
 To   : Brion Lienhart
 Subj : Re: SOUND SUPRESSORS
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 Actually the point I was trying to make was that a projectile weapon could work
in vacuum, so I was right.

 No, I don't load my own ammo. Glasers are all I need, and they're just fine
fromthe factory.

 Also, you were right about the vacuum welding, but that would only be true of
guns not made for vacc duty. The lunar rover worked fine because it was made to
work in vacc. They could get an ammo loader, firing pin, trigger, etc to work in
vacc.

 NOW, the real problem with normal type guns in vacc is recoil in low gravity.
For that, I recomend using gyrojets.

>;[

--- DLG Pro v1.0/DLGMail
 * Origin: Sage's Tower - Amiga - (618) 259-1844 (1:2250/7)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 190 of 584
 From : Leman Russ                          1:2250/7        .åò 05 .åí 96 04:49
 To   : Brion Lienhart
 Subj : Re: SOUND SUPRESSORS
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 BL> bottom of the case. If you don't know what you're talking about,
 BL> it's best not to spread misinformation.

 BTW, you don;t have to be so damn snide, you know.

 I think this media brings out peoplesrudeness and snideness, due to the safety
it offers....

>;[

--- DLG Pro v1.0/DLGMail
 * Origin: Sage's Tower - Amiga - (618) 259-1844 (1:2250/7)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 191 of 584
 From : Owen E. Oulton                      1:243/45        .ÿò 06 .åí 96 11:24
 To   : Frank Swarbrick
 Subj : on Sci-Fi Channel
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 FS> Do you, or anyone, know what the deal with series six is?  After "Back
 FS> To Reality," the end of series five, my local station started again
 FS> with the first episode, "The End."  Is it just that they haven't
 FS> purchased series six or is it not available in the U.S.?  Hmmm...

I have the entirety of season six, taped off a PBS channel somewhere out west.
They apparently ran them back to back, interrupted only by whining for cash
(sorry, pledge week) between episodes, which I edited out when I made my copy.
It's likely that your station just decided not to buy the season (or, as the
British say, "series").

CFN, O

--- Maximus 2.01wb
 * Origin: Pandora's Box, Ottawa, Ont. 613-829-1209 (1:243/45)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 192 of 584
 From : Henry Triplett                      1:106/564       .ÿò 06 .åí 96 18:45
 To   : JEFF HANCOCK
 Subj : Japanese SF
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

-=> Quoting Jeff Hancock to Henry Triplett <=-

 HT>Tsk, tsk.  I understand that the esteemed creator, Naoko Takeuchi
 HT>actually *liked* the English dubs after she saw some of them.  8-)

 JH> Be that as it may, I still consider it a vile corruption.  <g>

Heh, heh, heh!

 JH> By the way, if that is Takeuchi on the end of one of my tapes, she's
 JH> very shy; or at least she was when that interview was done.  Hardly
 JH> ever looked at the camera, spoke in a near-whisper, very edgy and
 JH> insecure.

Well, did she look anything like Setsuna?  Or was I way out of the park
with that one?

 JH> "Serena"'s brother.  I'm surprised he didn't break any of her bones
 JH> with such a vicious and cruel attack.  Hidoi yo.

Gee!  I knew he could be a real pain to Serena at times, but I didn't know
he abused animals as well.  Then again, bullying boys seem to be common in
Sailor Moon.  They even show up quite a bit in the DIC version.

 JH> Well it's nice to see she CAN do something on her own once in a while!

You mean besides eat and whine?  <g>

 HT> JH> As a matter of fact, in episode five Luna was telling her she
 HT> JH>shouldn't rely on someone showing up to save her, and she did
 HT>I doubt if Luna will have any luck convincing her of that. <g>

 JH> Probably not, but if she could just develop decent flight reflexes
 JH> instead of freezing in place half the time when she's attacked...

Yes!  But if she gets decent flight reflexes, maybe her luck factor might
decline. 8-)

 JH> The bathtub scene was when the star was first caught by the demon, who
 JH> froze her with a breath attack (suggesting a crude innuendo), and then
 JH> took her place.  It doesn't really show anything, and I suppose DIC
 JH> could have simply taken that out entirely and had the audience assume
 JH> that the star had _always_ been the demon, but the FAQ doesn't say.

No, I think they left that particular scene in the DIC version.  I kind of
remember it, vaguely.

 JH> Usagi and Naru (okay, Serena and Molly, grrrr) were rehearsing
 JH> together, in what I thought was a hilarious self-referental joke, to
 JH> the Sailor Moon opening theme song (the FAQ says they kept the joke -
 JH> does that mean they used the American version or the original?), but

The American version.

 JH> that didn't work out, so... "Molly" convinced "Melvin" to dress up in
 JH> drag, with lipstick and everything, and be her dance partner.  *THAT*
 JH> was what made me assume DIC wouldn't touch it, not considering their
 JH> other cuts and the Concerned Parents and the Target Audience, and I
 JH> haven't heard any jokes or comments about it either; but the FAQ
 JH> doesn't say they changed it at all.  So, was it shown, or wasn't it?

I think it was shown.  It's been awhile since I've seen it, so I'm not sure.
Maybe I'll get a chance to look now that I've finished the latest part of
Sailor Babylon.

Henry

... "To use a human phrase, it gives me the screaming willies." --Draal

___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20 [NR]
--- GEcho 1.00
 * Origin: Eat Flaming Death    Houston Texas    713-447-1927 (1:106/564)

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 Msg  : 193 of 584
 From : James Dixon                         1:2604/309      .ÿò 06 .åí 96 12:48
 To   : Bob Klahn
 Subj : FAVOURITE TREK MOVIE
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

BK> No, we're talking about Star Trek, Sci Fi at best, weak Sci Fi typically.

Well, the other series aren't much better in that regard...

BK>BK>> As SF films none of the STMs were any good. Number 1 blew it for me, as
BK>BK>> did
BK>BK>> 2 and 3, because of the lack of originality. They all just went back an
BK>BK>> recycled old plots.

BK> JD> I can see this... But ST-TMP I always liked because it was the mileston
BK> JD> Trek movie which started it all and it at least tried to kick off an
BK> JD> intellectual Trek movie series--even though it failed by being poorly
BK> JD> paced, a tad too FXed, and didn't really delve into the characters...

BK> The great weakness of TMP was set from the start. They did not have an
BK> original idea in their heads, so they reached back into the old series to
BK> warm over an old plot. From there they were doomed.

It wasn't all That close to "The Changeling"... Thing is, they kept
rewriting the script and originally there was to be a more meaty middle
and end to the film...

BK> JD> Also had the best musical score and FX of all the films, IMO... ST II

BK> Yes, ST-TMP had great FX, I could watch nothing but the FXs and forget the
BK> plot and dialog. However, Dune also had great FX and an even better musical
BK> score. The move stunk all the same.

The Dune film wasn't all That bad either... Let's face it, a novel that
thick and concentrated simply wasn't meant to be made into a motion
picture... Any attempt was doomed to fail... And either way it wouldn't
be able to satisfy newcomers 100% or die hard fans 100%...

BK> JD> was overall a decent movie though it catered to the, as one movie adver

BK> It was a money machine. I doubt anyone in the whole process really loved SF
BK> ...

That pretty much sums it up--but certainly more so for the later films
which showed pretty much No love for Star Trek... When they began
destroying Enterprises and killing off mainstream characters for the
sake of big bucks...

BK>BK>> JD> bad as Generations, if not worse...

BK>BK>> Worse? Is that possible?

BK> JD> Oh yes... When we have the same old, stagnant writers from TNG/DS9/V
BK> JD> writing feature films, it's a bad sign... When we know that they stick
BK> JD> to Cheap gimmicks and formulas to tease the fan community... Generation
BK> JD> was a mish-mash of ideas and subplots--not one was fully explored and

BK>  Like I said, a money machine.

Well, that's what it is Now... Voyager's in The saddest shape... I just
saw "Basics, Part II" the other night and I tell ya, I must've guessed
75% of the plot ahead of time...

BK> JD> sisters, Data (his quest for emotions--the Data that Gene created),
BK> JD> 1701-D, and of course Jim Kirk... Essentially, Berman drove a bulldozer
BK> JD> across TOS and TNG, leveling a good portion of what Gene Roddenberry
BK> JD> created, so he could re-create it in the next movie in his own way...

BK> You know, I didn't realize that, but it seems your are right here.

BK> JD> Cheap deaths for cheap thrills... Not to mention the plot of this Nexus

BK> Yeah, awful wasn't it.

BK> JD> thingie which makes no sense... This Borg film sounds like another

BK> Sense? None, you're right.

BK> JD> mishmash movie with time travel and other far-fetched, wacko gimmicks..

BK> Ugh, I'm depressed already.

Wait till you see the thing... I remember some really sarcastic comments
made back around 1980 regarding how TPTB would regenerate Trek's
popularity after moving into the feature film department... About how
there were two approaches: 1. A true TOS adventure about exploring
space, making contact with an incredibly alien race, and featuring the
Kirk-Spock-McCoy relationship at its best, and 2. Forget characters and
TOS ideals--instead pour all the bread into an all-out FX blowout based
around a war with the UFP, plenty of explosions and dogfights--so it'd
draw the Star Wars crowd... Well, seems #2's won out this time around
for sure!


 * OLXWin 1.00a * Keniclius*Kahn*Charon*Green*Soljenov*Thorsen


--- WM v3.10/93-0747
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Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 194 of 584
 From : James Dixon                         1:2604/309      .ÿò 06 .åí 96 13:00
 To   : Bob Klahn
 Subj : HOMEBOYS IN OUTER SPL
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

BK> JD> As for James Doohan starring... Well, I Hope it was just a one-shot
BK> JD> one-episode cameo... I still don't think he can get as low as Nichelle
BK> JD> Nichols backing the Psychotic Network...

BK> Don't you recall the problems the non-leading characters from TOS had
BK> getting jobs afterwards? Don't you recall the low pay scales they had to
BK> settle for?

BK> I'd say they were pretty well hard up for work.

Yah, but there are Limits to how far down one can sink... Doohan's cameo
is tolerable compared to Nichols and Whitney... I've no tolerance
whatsoever for Anyone who backs the Psychic network and related ripoff
rackets... Prostitution is more honorable by comparison, at least it
serves an honest public need...


 * OLXWin 1.00a * TREK9.ZIP @ http://www.sas.upenn.edu/~azion


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Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 195 of 584
 From : James Dixon                         1:2604/309      .ÿò 06 .åí 96 13:05
 To   : Kay Shapero
 Subj : Re: Klingons
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

KS> JD>TPTB still doesn't have the lobes to come right out and say that
KS> JD>there are two different Klingon races... They want us to believe that
KS> JD>the TOS and TNG Klingons are one and the same, that their change in
KS> JD>physical appearance is due entirely to inadequate funds in the 60s!

KS>I should imagine the true explanation is that they simply wanted to have fun
KS>with makeup when they did the movie.  But yeah, that doesn't fit "the game".

That's the whole thing in a nutshell... But more to the point it shows
how little care is given to basic continuity... They accept fans to
simply edit their momories of what the original Klingons looked like...

KS>Of course we know they have pretty good plastic surgery, witness the Klingon
KS>disguised as a human in "The Trouble With Tribbles."  So we've got two
KS>possibilities.

KS>First, most prosaic, and probably most accurate: more than one race of
KS>Klingons.  The Klingon Empire is a multi-species Empire, and the term
KS>"Klingon" refers to a member of that empire, sorta like the way members of
KS>the Federation are sometimes termed as "Feds" (though I don't think they use
KS>that term themselves.)  The first ones the Federation ran into were the more
KS>"humanoid" variety like Kor.

Yah, this is The first explanation suggested way back when ST-TMP was
released...

KS>Second.... Blame it all on Mad Emperor Kang.  Forced by circumstances and
KS>family connections to become Emperor, his own wish was always to be the
KS>Galaxy's greatest cosmetic surgeon.  Of course the methods available were fa
KS>more subtle than those that the modern day plastic surgeon must utilize; he
KS>used nanotech.  Choosing a few of the outermost planets as a place to
KS>practice, he refined his little beasties and turned them loose, with the
KS>results that one planet full of Klingons became bright green asparagus peopl
KS>rooted, and are still growing; another turned into amorphous blobs, fell
KS>through a convenient wormhole, mutated a bit and are now well established in
KS>the Gamma Quadrant as the Changlings; and the third and fourth took on the
KS>characteristics visible in the Klingons seen on the original Star Trek serie
KS> These happened to run into the Federation first.

Yah, something along these lines was in the new novel "Infiltrator"...
But just not in regards to Klingons...


 * OLXWin 1.00a * Columbia (NCC-621) Revere (NCC-595) Entente (NCC-2120): ST-TM


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 Msg  : 196 of 584
 From : James Dixon                         1:2604/309      .ÿò 06 .åí 96 13:11
 To   : Phill Ash
 Subj : Dune Encyclopaedia
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

PA> PA>        TrekTech has started into the "can't exceed warp 10 : can too"
PA> PA>        arguements...   It's almost like I'm waiting for Voyager to
PA> PA>        premier so that I'll have something more to lambast. :)

PA> JD> Oh, lovely... Let me predict that a canon war will crop up there soon,
PA> JD> followed by (or alongside) the 9.99999999 = 1.0 mathematics debate...
PA> JD> Nothing ever changes around here...

PA>        We'll see...
PA>        Where's the WebSite that's got the updated Chronology?  I had it
PA>        bookmarked 2 versions of NetScape ago... <sigh>

I finally found the sense to put it into this little tagline file...



 * OLXWin 1.00a * TREK9.ZIP @ http://www.sas.upenn.edu/~azion


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 Msg  : 197 of 584
 From : James Dixon                         1:2604/309      .ÿò 06 .åí 96 13:13
 To   : Phill Ash
 Subj : FAVOURITE TREK MOVIE
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

PA> JD> It Pointlessly killed off Picard's brother and nephew,

PA>        Pointlessly?
PA>        Nay, I say...  As you state earlier, many subplots are wheeled
PA>        out but improperly explored.  Robert and Rene's deaths were
PA>        intricate to Picard's realisation of his own mortality (there
PA>        would be noone to continue the Picard line).  This led to the
PA>        Nexus-created illusion of home and hearth with children all
PA>        around...

OK, but I thought the film had too much Death in it for no good
reason... This was at least touched upon with the Nexus "dream" but
still and all killing both of them was a tad too much, and offscreen no
less...

PA> JD> Data (his quest for emotions--the Data that Gene created),

PA>        Again... a plot device handled incorrectly...  Spiner did a good
PA>        job conveying Data's emotional immaturity.  More's the pity that
PA>        it wasn't developed further in the story.

That's just it... It, like so much in this movie, wasn't developed...
Any one subplot could've been carved into a film all by itself...
Watching Generations was like watching a whole sheet full of fan desires
being run through--quickly, carelessly, and without resolution nor full
exploration...

PA> JD> 1701-D, and of course Jim Kirk...

PA>        I'm not going to try and justify these... Storywise, there was
PA>        no excuse for either.

Be interesting to see how the film would've turned out if both were left
out though...

PA> JD> this Nexus thingie which makes no sense...

PA>        My major gripe about the Nexus is - Why didn't the scribblers
PA>        take the time to explain that Picard and Kirk (as humans) had
PA>        the imagination that the el-Alurians (or whatever) lacked... and
PA>        subsequently could overcome the compulsion to remain in the
PA>        Nexus.

Oh, is that all... How about...

How can the Nexus destroy anything that flies into it but not anything
in its path?
If Guinan etal made it into the Nexus by the sacrifice of a ship, why
couldn't Soran do the same without blowing up stars?
Data stated that the Nexus was a temporal ribbon which passed through
this section of the galaxy every 39 point something years--so how come
it's a mystery to everyone and why wasn't there a team of UFP scientists
Waiting for it to reappear? Heck, why wasn't there a team of
Non-scientists waiting around for a one-way joy trip?
If whoever enters it can have anything desired (hallucinogenic-style),
then how can anyone be certain that personal time-travel is a reality or
an illusion?

And so on...


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 Msg  : 198 of 584
 From : James Dixon                         1:2604/309      .ÿò 06 .åí 96 13:55
 To   : Phill Ash
 Subj : Douglas Adams
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

PA> BR> I was wondering if anyone else has read any books by Douglas Adams.
PA> BR> The best know book that he has written is entitled The Hitchhikers
PA> BR> Guide to the Galaxy.  I thought this was a really good book.  There are
PA> BR> many other books in the series that were also good.

PA>        If you can get your hands on the original BBC Radio broadcast (I
PA>        believe Planet Music carries it on CD), you'll never want to
PA>        read any of the other books in the series...  Adams seriously
PA>        diluted the ideas put forth in the two radio series in order to
PA>        pad out the Trilogy.

PA>        The forth and fifth books were fine examples of the art of
PA>        Beating a Dead Horse.

You can say that again! I first got hooked on the original radio series
when it was broadcast on NPR here...Then I read the novelizations... The
first one wasn't bad though it skewed somewhat from the series, likewise
for the second one... Then things began to slowly get out of hand with
different subplots and bits from the radio series revamped and
interjected into the wrong places... "So Long And Thanks For All The
Fish" was total trash, and "Mostly Harmless" almost as bad--neither one
even seemed to fit into the continuity, and appeared to be written to
merely milk the name of the series...


 * OLXWin 1.00a * Creation: Soon to be only Official Canon conventions!


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 Msg  : 199 of 584
 From : Bobby Rissler                       1:270/435       .ÿò 06 .åí 96 15:14
 To   : Frank Glover
 Subj : Re: Favourite Trek movie of a
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 FG>
 FG>    You think this was the first time Trek (or any
 FG> other SF) has stepped into the paradoxical mine field
 FG> that time travel causes? Presumably Scotty anc McCoy
 FG> felt the could get away with giving away the formula
 FG> for transparent aluminum because the identity of its
 FG> creator is a lost historical fact to them. It could
 FG> just as well have been that guy. Selling Kirk's
 FG> glasses acknowledged such a loop:
 FG>
 FG> Spock: "Aren't those the glasses Doctor McCoy gave you
 FG> for your birthday?"
 FG>
 FG>  Kirk: "Yes, and they will be again. That's the beauty of it."
 FG>
 FG>    Harry harrison did something similar in `The
 FG> Technicolor Time Machine.'
 FG>
 FG>
 FG>     As for making sure not to alter history...your very presence can't
 FG> help but affect something. (Even just absorbing a few photons, or
 FG> displacing a few air molecules that weren't affected
 FG> before.) And due to tha chaotic (Not the way the term
 FG> was abused in Jurassic Park,but the fact that the
 FG> system is exteremely non-linear, and results are
 FG> increasingly sensitive to inital conditions, the
 FG> farther down you look.) way in which events and
 FG> history seem to unfold, there's no way of knowing
 FG> what will be ultimately important, anyway. `City on
 FG> the Edge of Forever,' `Tomorrow is Yesterday' (You
 FG> won't do anything signifigant, but your son will.)
 FG> and the DS9 episodes in 21st century Los Angeles
 FG> should've taught us that.....
 FG>

   I guess the episodes wouldn't really be all that great though without time
travel.  They would probably have been a lot less interesting.  I like how in
the show Sliders they try and alter the current dimesion there in.  They think
that they can make things better, but what if the things they do really cause
the destruction of the earth that they are on.


--- Maximus 3.01
 * Origin: The Good News BBS  Bowmansville, PA (1:270/435)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 200 of 584
 From : Bobby Rissler                       1:270/435       .ÿò 06 .åí 96 15:18
 To   : Phill Ash
 Subj : Klingons
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 BR> You both must admit though that Klingons have come a long way since
 BR> the original series where they were more like the romulans are now.

 PA>         Oh yeah...
 PA>         The Klingon were exactly what Roddenberry did *NOT* want on
 PA>         Trek... aliens who were evil for evil's sake.

 PA>         Early memos about the depiction of Klingons used such terms as
 PA>         "...beat up their own mothers" and "...fart in airlocks".

 PA>         Later, Roddenberry decried the use of klingons and insisted that
 PA>         there be emplaced a rationale behind their 'evil'... hence the
 PA>         "Honourable Klingon"...

 PA>         Unfortunately, we never got a story involving a Klingon doing
 PA>         some unspeakable 'evil' that HAD to be done because it was the
 PA>         HONORABLE THING TO DO...

  I wonder if they'll have a Next Gen. movie that deals more with the klingons
then the last one.  They'll probably have more elaborate foreheads but they'll
still be the same in terms of the way they act.


--- Maximus 3.01
 * Origin: The Good News BBS  Bowmansville, PA (1:270/435)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 201 of 584
 From : Bobby Rissler                       1:270/435       .ÿò 06 .åí 96 15:21
 To   : Phill Ash
 Subj : Douglas Adams
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 BR> I was wondering if anyone else has read any books by Douglas Adams.
 BR> The best know book that he has written is entitled The Hitchhikers
 BR> Guide to the Galaxy.  I thought this was a really
 BR> good book.  There are
 BR> many other books in the series that were also good.

 PA>         If you can get your hands on the original BBC Radio broadcast (I
 PA>         believe Planet Music carries it on CD), you'll never want to
 PA>         read any of the other books in the series...  Adams seriously
 PA>         diluted the ideas put forth in the two radio series in order to
 PA>         pad out the Trilogy.

 PA>         The forth and fifth books were fine examples of the art of
 PA>         Beating a Dead Horse.

  I've never heard the radio broadcast of it but if I saw it available somewhere
I would surely buy it.  I really like Douglas Adams writing style.  He offers a
lot of humor without destroying the story.  The Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy
computer game was especially good.  It really helped to get a better feel of
what Arthur Dent is like.


--- Maximus 3.01
 * Origin: The Good News BBS  Bowmansville, PA (1:270/435)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 202 of 584
 From : Bob Klahn                           1:234/2         .ÿò 06 .åí 96 22:54
 To   : Brion Lienhart
 Subj : BY FORCE OF ARMS
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 BC>> "When the need arises--and it does--you must be able to shoot
 BC>> your own dog. Don't farm it out--that doesn't make it nicer, it
 BC>> makes it worse."
 BC>>                                         -- Woodrow Wilson Smith

 -BK>> I was sure it was RAH, got the wrong character, though.

 BL> Woodrow Wilson Smith was Lazarus Long's birth name.

 See, even when I'm wrong it's cause I was right but thought I was wrong.

 Like I said, been a long time.

BOB KLAHN   bob.klahn@toltbbs.com

... I can't define "Assault Rifle", but I know one when it shoots at me.
 * Silver Xpress V4.3P RB10275

--- FLAME v1.1
 * Origin: Telnet toltbbs.com or call 313-854-6001, Boardwatch #55 (1:234/2)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 203 of 584
 From : Nicolai Shapero                     1:102/524       .ÿò 06 .åí 96 06:23
 To   : Bob Klahn
 Subj : BY FORCE OF ARMS
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
I would strongly suggest that you drop the subject of the civil war, as it is
grossly off topic for this conference.

Thank you for your cooperation,

-- Nicolai Shapero, Moderator of the SFFAN echo

--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 204 of 584
 From : Kay Shapero                         1:102/524       .ÿò 06 .åí 96 08:23
 To   : Phill Ash
 Subj : Star Trek Voyager
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Sep 03 10:14>, Phill Ash (1:275/160) wrote to Patrick Duda:

 PD> too. At the least ditch the 'gilligan's island' storyline. "Professor,

  PD> do you think we could make a wormhole with two pots and a tachyon
 PD> beam?"

 PA>        I've heard rumors that imply they're ditching the "Lost
 PA>in Space" motif...  I'll wait for more before I begin
 PA>perpetuating them, though...

What Voyager needs to do is ditch is the mind-set that keeps missing the
potential of it all.  In other words, to remember that the thing is travelling
at a pretty high rate of speed in the direction of Alpha Quadrant, not wandering
aimlessly about the same fifty or so square light years.  They should be well
beyond Kazon space by now; in fact each season could profitably see them dealing
with new species in a new galactopolitical situation from a standing start.
Thus far, it's been like trying to tell a story about crossing Europe but never
getting out of Belgium, or crossing South America without ever leaving Peru.
They've lost sight of the sheer *scale* of it all except as an explanation of
why they don't get back home immediately.  There's enough room for several major
interstellar societies, each unaware of the others!

What they need to do is take advantage of this.  You could do some wonderful
contact stories, chance encounters and so forth.  (Example - they come across a
species who have a faster spacedrive than theirs, are headed in the same
direction they are for the next hundred or so lightyears, and would be willing
to give them a lift that far.  All they have to do is figure out how Voyager is
going to pay for it.  Both sides are being perfectly fair and reasonable; the
problem is figuring out who values what and how much of it makes up an equitable
trade.  Information?  Artwork? [And what IS artwork to something that sees into
the ultraviolet, is blind to red, and evolved from a vaguely canid carnivore?])

--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 205 of 584
 From : David Little                        1:106/7315      .ÿò 06 .åí 96 09:06
 To   : Bobby Rissler
 Subj : New Star Wars movies
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
-=< Bobby Rissler used the Jedi Mind Trick on me!>=-

 DL>         hehe...It's not "Shadows of the Empire",
 DL> that's the name of the newest
 DL> multimedia product, but the re-release of the trilogy
 DL> is named "Star Wars:
 DL> Special Edition". The new SW prequels have yet to be named.
 BR> This is going to be made after the special edition comes out.  It
 BR> is planned to be released in 1999.  It is going to take place between
 BR> the The Empire Strikes Back and Return of the Jedi.  The prequels
 BR> won't be out for a while yet.

        Shadows will not be made into a movie. 1999 is the release date for
the prequels.

                                        -=The DoLittle 8-)=-


... STAR WARS FIDONET ECHO...Mudhole? Slimey? Our home this is!
--- Blue Wave/DOS v2.30 [NR]
 * Origin: The Wizards Realm BBS 1-713-946-7315 1:106/7315 (1:106/7315)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 206 of 584
 From : David Little                        1:106/7315      .ÿò 06 .åí 96 09:07
 To   : Bert Faes
 Subj : New Star Wars movies
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
-=< Bert Faes used the Jedi Mind Trick on me!>=-

 >         hehe...It's not "Shadows of the Empire", that's the name of the
 > newest multimedia product, but the re-release of the trilogy is named "Star
 > Wars: Special Edition". The new SW prequels have yet to be named.

 BF> Are the gona take the same actors or who's gona play into the episodes
 BF> ? Maybe the original actors are a bit out of the age but they are
 BF> almost 'legendary', I'll suck when the use others...

        Outside of Anthony Daniels and Jeremy Bulloch, there is not plans to
use the actors in the first trilogy, since the prequels will be taking place
BEFORE the events in SW:ANH.

                                        -=The DoLittle 8-)=-


... STAR WARS FIDONET ECHO...now lets blow this thing and go home!
--- Blue Wave/DOS v2.30 [NR]
 * Origin: The Wizards Realm BBS 1-713-946-7315 1:106/7315 (1:106/7315)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 207 of 584
 From : David Little                        1:106/7315      .ÿò 06 .åí 96 09:47
 To   : Chris Dixon
 Subj : New Star Wars Movies
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
-=< Chris Dixon used the Jedi Mind Trick on me!>=-

 CD> Has anyone heard anything about the new Star Wars Trilogy that's
 CD> supposed to me in the making?

        The screenplay for episode 1 is finished, casting is in it's final
stages, and preproduction is also finishing up. For the best and most up-to-
date info, hit the STARWARS fidonet echo or the inter-FIDO web page.

                                        -=The DoLittle 8-)=-


... The SW Inter-FIDO Website-http://members.aol.com/Mikefjedi2/front.htm
--- Blue Wave/DOS v2.30 [NR]
 * Origin: The Wizards Realm BBS 1-713-946-7315 1:106/7315 (1:106/7315)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 208 of 584
 From : James Dixon                         1:2604/309      .ÿò 06 .åí 96 20:41
 To   : Patrick Duda
 Subj : Klingons              01/
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

PD>-> Nah, you're probably thinking of the renegade Klingons in "Heart of
PD>-> Glory" and/or the Duras sisters seen in later seasons... These were

PD> That sounds like it, but they were some sorta seperate clan exiled from
PD>homeworld.

It supposedly happens all the time... Different Klingon clans grasping
for more power and all...

PD>    There's a _medical manual_? Geez, how many treknology books are
PD>there? I have the tech guides from both enterprizes, and I though it was
PD>complete!

That's a point I'm always making... Treknical publications started over
20 years ago... There's this current "trend" to bury the past and
pretend that nothing in print goes back further than the 90s... Here's a
few sources from my chronology file--strictly ones I used for the
chronology, mind you...

     ACP: S.S. Aurora Class Space Cruiser Blueprints
     AES: Avenger Class Evolution Sheet
     CBS: U.S.S. Crusaider Class Battleship Sheet (arguably THE worst)
     CCP: U.S.S. Caracal Class Command Cruiser Blueprints
     CDP: U.S.S. Sherman Class Cargo Drone Blueprints
     COM: U.S.S. Cheyenne Class Exploration Cruiser Operations Manual
     CTP: U.S.S. Durance Class Cargo/Tug Class Blueprints
     DCP: U.S.S. Detroyat Class Heavy Destroyer Blueprints.
     DDS: Dreadnought Design Sheet (Federation II & Ascension)
     DPS: U.S.S. Decatur Prototype Test Starship Sheet
     DTP: U.S.S. Dollond Class Transport Blueprints
     DYC: DY-Series Comparison Chart
     EBD: Enterprise Bridge Deck (NCC-1701-A) Blueprint Sheet
     EBLP: U.S.S. Enterprise Bridge Layout Blueprints
     EBP: U.S.S. Enterprise Bridge Blueprints
     ECP: U.S.S. Excelsior/Ingram Space Control Ship Blueprints
     EDC: U.S.S. Enterprise (NCC-1701-D) Cutaway Poster
     EDP: U.S.S. Enterprise NCC-1701A Deck Plans
     EOM: U.S.S. Enterprise Officers Manual (original and "updated" versions)
     FASA: FantA Simulations Associates gaming booklets/manuals
     FCP: U.S.S. Federation Class Dreadnought Blueprints
     FRS: Federation Reference Series
     FSC: Federation Shuttlecarrer Comparison Chart
     FSF: From the Files of Star Fleet Command
     FTS: Federation Technological Survey 2150 to 2370, Vol. 1
     GCP: Glenn Class Fleet Survey Vessel Blueprints
     GSM: Galileo Class Starcruiser: Ship's Organization & Regulations Manual
     HCE: U.S.S. Enterprise Heavy Cruiser Evolution Blueprints
     HCFP: U.S.S. Almeida Heavy Cruiser/Freighter Blueprints
     HFP: U.S.S. Avenger Class Heavy Frigate Blueprints
     HCFP: U.S.S. Hornet Class Fighter-Carrier Blueprints
     ICP: U.S.S. Independence Class Armed Freighter Blueprints
     ICPG: U.S.S. Intrepid Class Starship Blueprints And Technical Guide
     IFP: U.S.S. Ianar Class Fast Frigate Blueprints
     JCP: U.S.S. Joshua Class Command Cruiser Blueprints
     JDCP: Jackill's Daedalus Class Exploration Craft Data Sheets
     JRM: Jackill's Star Fleet Reference Manual: Ships of the Fleet Vol. I
     JRM2: Jackill's Star Fleet Reference Manual: Ships of the Fleet Vol. II
     JRM3: Jackill's Star Fleet Reference Manual: Ships of the Fleet Vol. III
     KA: The Kobayashi Alternative (computer game)
     KD: The Klingon Dictionary
     KMP: S.S. Kobayashi Maru Blueprints
     KMP2: Kobayashi Maru Neutronic Fuel Carrier Blueprints
     K7P: Space Station Class K Blueprints
     KTM: U.S.S. Khai Tam Technical Orientation Manual
     LOR: Line Officer Requirements Manuals (2 volumes & 1 supplement)
     LTP: U.S.S. Lynx Timeship Prototype Blueprints
     MCP: Merchantman Class J Cargo Ship Blueprints
     MDS: Menahga Tactical Battlecruiser Development Sheet
     MRM: Star Fleet Medical Reference Manual
     MSGE: Mr. Scott's Guide to the Enterprise <Shane Johnson>
     NTM: Star Trek: The Next Generation Technical Manual
     PAS: Perimeter Action Ships Markings & Insignia
     R1P: Regula 1 Space Laboratory Blueprints
     RGP: Reischl's Guide to Ships of the Fleet (Preview)
     SASH: Starfleet Academy Student Handbook
     SCP: U.S.S. Saladin Class Destroyer/Scout Blueprints
     SFB: Star Fleet Battles/Companion Games/Prime Directive
     SFC: Spaceflight Chronology
     SFD: StarFleet Dynamics
     SFE: Star Fleet Enginery Sheet
     SFH: Star Fleet Handbooks
     SfP: Starfleet Prototype
     SotF: Ships of the Star Fleet (Vol. 1)
     SotF2: Ships of the Star Fleet (Vol. 2): Perimeter Action Ships
     SsD: Starship Design
     S79: Starbase 79 Blueprints
     STD2: Star Fleet Tactical Database Series 2
     STM: Star Trek Maps and/or Introduction to Navigation Manual
     TBoT: The Best of Trek (paperbacks)
     TM: Star Fleet Technical Manual (including fan supplements)
     TMoST: The Making of Star Trek (paperback)
     TWF: The Worlds of the Federation <Shane Johnson>
     URM: Star Fleet Uniform Recognition Manual <Shane Johnson>
     WFM: Weapons and Field Equipment Technical Reference Manual <S. Johnson>
(Continued to next message)


 * OLXWin 1.00a * TREK9.ZIP @ http://www.sas.upenn.edu/~azion


--- WM v3.10/93-0747
 * Origin: Plain Brown Wrapper BBS-Cresskill NJ.(201)569-6685  (1:2604/309)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 209 of 584
 From : Dave Ewen                           1:266/167       .ÿò 06 .åí 96 23:45
 To   : David Johnston
 Subj : Favourite Trek Movie Of A
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 TS>I vote for Wrath of Khan.

 DE> That stunk. Was pointlessly violent. I vote for movie #1.

 DJ>Why is a pointless movie that has violence worse than one that
 DJ>doesn't?

 DE> Oh, maybe seeing all the additional bad acting...?

 DJ>I'm not following your reasoning.

 Perhaps it's just personal bias on my part. Maybe I resent the creating
 of 'interesting' nazi-like villians for their entertainment value.

---
 þ SLMR 2.1a þ J Vance: "The Moon Moth"

 * Origin: Logan's Run Swedesboro,NJ USA 609-467-9649 (1:266/167)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 210 of 584
 From : Dave Ewen                           1:266/167       .ÿò 06 .åí 96 23:45
 To   : All
 Subj : B-5
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
It occured to me that I have yet to see any scenes on B-5 that match
what I had assumed was the central premise of the program:

Who here can explain how this 'U.N. building in space' conducts the
business that is its central purpose? Of the few episodes I have seen
none of them seemed in any way related to such a ongoing purpose.

What happened to B-1, B-2, B-3, and B-4?  And who would ever believe
that the same project name would continue to be used after all these
failures?

I've been catching an occasional episode and never seeing anything I
thought was all that good. Now finally I've seen a few episodes I liked.
How rare are good episodes?

---
 þ SLMR 2.1a þ P Anderson: "The Queen of Air and Darkness"

 * Origin: Logan's Run Swedesboro,NJ USA 609-467-9649 (1:266/167)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 211 of 584
 From : Todd Sullivan                       1:202/720.3     .åò 05 .åí 96 19:12
 To   : Phill Ash
 Subj : SAAB
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Reports from the Interior indicate that Phill Ash leaked the following to me,
re: SAAB

 TS>> I'm sure the civilians will appreciate this information.
 TS>> USS Saratoga, CV-60, 1980-83.  Now in the hands of Gillette.

 PA>         Sinkin' Sara...  Oh joy <G>
 PA>         Looks like you got out 'round the same time I got in...

Discharge date was 10/13.  Needless to say, I shook of the dust of my boots on
the quarterdeck.  Might explain a few things. <hehehe!>

Todd Sullivan

... He's got the attention span of an overripe grapefruit.

-*- ASTG 1.9

--- Spot 1.3a Unregistered
 * Origin: Todd's Spot in the Continuum (1:202/720.3)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 212 of 584
 From : Farrell McGovern                    1:243/79        .ÿò 06 .åí 96 07:45
 To   : Mark Jones
 Subj : CGI TREK (GLOAT!)
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 MJ>    I quote from this week's (Aug 24-30, 1996) TV GUIDE, p. 29:

 MJ>    "They'll be beaming up some familiar faces when Deep Space Nine and
 MJ> Voyager celebrate 30 years of Star Trek.  Through the use of 'Gump'
 MJ> technology, DS9 is now shooting an episode (scheduled to air the week
 MJ> of November 4) that will put Captain Sisko and his crew together with
 MJ> Kirk and Spock as they appeared in 1967's much-loved "The Trouble with
 MJ> Tribbles" episode."

        Not unless they make mucho money!

        I hope David Gerrold is making a lot on it! He wrote the original "The
Trouble with Tribbles" episode. It was his writing that made that episode what
it is.

 MJ>    [And by the way, given what we can do *now* with computer graphics,
 MJ> the video images of President Clark discussing his assassination of
 MJ> his successor, President Santiago, in Babylon 5 would hold no import.
 MJ> The government would denounce them as lies--and probably would be
 MJ> believed by most people.]

        True, but for the fact of the subcarrier code, which are one of the
biggest secrets used by the military...so, it is either a *major* military
security breach, or Clarke is the slime he really seems to be...

        BTW, speaking of CGI, Foundation Imaging, the wonderful people who do
all the CGI for Babylon-5, are now doing work for Star Trek: Voyager...

ttyl
     Farrell


--- Maximus/2 3.01
 * Origin: Solsbury Hill BBS (1:243/79)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 213 of 584
 From : Bo A. Nielsen                       2:235/306.15    .ÿò 06 .åí 96 10:04
 To   : Bert Faes
 Subj : New Star Wars movies
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Hi Bert Faes,

02-Sep-96 17:56:00, Bert Faes wrote to David Little
          Subject: New Star Wars movies

 >>         hehe...It's not "Shadows of the Empire", that's the name of the
 >> newest
 >> multimedia product, but the re-release of the trilogy is named "Star
 >> Wars:
 >> Special Edition". The new SW prequels have yet to be named.

 BF> Are the gona take the same actors or who's gona play into the episodes ?
 BF> Maybe the original actors are a bit out of the age but they are almost
 BF> 'legendary', I'll suck when the use others...

Like David said, Shadows of the Empire is a multimedia-project (book, game,
comic, soundtrack etc.), it's set between Empire and Jedi, and there won't
be a movie made.

The re-release is just that - a rerelease (albeit with updated sound, fx
and a few new computer enchanced scenes). As such, all the original actors
are going to be there. BTW there's a trailer floating around the Internet,
which was also shown at the Theaters before some (a few) Independence Day
shows. The internet-version is rather good.

The NEW movies will be prequels, set decades before the original trilogy.
As such, the characters the original actors play won't be around, with the
exception of Anarkin, Obi-Wan, Palpatine, etc. who will all be a great
deal younger. There was a rumor floating around that Mark Hamill would be
playing Anarkin Skywalker, but both he and Lucasfilm has denied it.

No matter what actors are in the new films, the original trilogi will be
a tough act to follow - some fans are bound to be disapointed, just like
some Trekkies are dissapointed every a Trek project comes out. Personally
I'll watch the new movies before I decide whether or not I like them...

Mvh. Bo

PS   All of the above info comes from the rec.arts.sf.starwars.info
     internet newsgroup.

--- Terminate 4.00/Pro
 * Origin: Internet - bnielsn@post1.tele.dk, Fidonet - (2:235/306.15)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 214 of 584
 From : Marco Catalano                      2:2802/152.3    .óá 07 .åí 96 09:19
 To   : Bobby Rissler
 Subj : Douglas Adams
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Hello Bobby!


Saturday August 31 1996, Bobby Rissler writes to All:

 BR>   I was wondering if anyone else has read any books by Douglas Adams.  The
 BR> best know book that he has written is entitled The Hitchhikers Guide to
 BR> the Galaxy. I thought this was a really good book.  There are many other
 BR> books in the series that were also good.

Like "Goodbye and thanks for the fish" ??


Greetings from Marco
BYE!



... Friends, Romans, countrymen, lend me your taglines!

--- FMail/386 1.02
 * Origin: Specially made for Bobby! (2:2802/152.3)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 215 of 584
 From : Dave Ewen                           1:266/167       .cê 08 .åí 96 00:01
 To   : Owen E. Oulton
 Subj : Re: SOUND SUPRESSORS
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

BL> The main problem with shooting in a vacuum would be vacuum welding of
BL> action.

OEO>Yep, that would be a problem (of course, if you're in zero gee, recoil woul
OEO>also be a problem).  To avoid vacuum welding, I suspect that you'd want as
OEO>polymer and carbon composite construction as is practicable in the weapon,
OEO>as well as a hard teflon or similar finish on all mating metal surfaces, an

What is vacuum welding?

---
 þ SLMR 2.1a þ Moody Blues: The Voice

 * Origin: Logan's Run Swedesboro,NJ USA 609-467-9649 (1:266/167)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 216 of 584
 From : Dave MacLean                        1:259/536       .óá 07 .åí 96 17:01
 To   : All
 Subj : fun/neat info
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
hi every1 here is some fun & neat info for u.

1 == i am part of a sci fi club that meets monthly in toronto & we are always
looking for new members.

2 == i am looking for message buddies who enjoy the asame same things i do.

3 == i am writing a trivia book on st-tng & i need help.


should u need more info or have any questions on any of the above items feel
free to message me back.  hope to here from some of u.



--- Maximus 2.01wb
 * Origin: USS Proxima = Toronto, Canada (416)265-3867 (1:259/536)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 217 of 584
 From : Kay Shapero                         1:102/524       .óá 07 .åí 96 09:52
 To   : Owen E. Oulton
 Subj : Re: Klingons
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Sep 05 20:01>, Owen E. Oulton (1:243/45) wrote to Kay Shapero:

 OE>The simple fact is that if they'd had the funds in the '60's
 OE>there would never have been *ANY* Klingons.  Klingons were
 OE>developed as a low-cost alternative to lots 'n' lots of expensive
 OE>Romulan ears.  John Colicos has remarked that when he went into

So I've heard.  Which makes it all the more amusing the way the Romulans wound
up using the Klingon ships; by the time they had the funds to do more Romulans
the Bird of Prey model was long gone...

 OE>'Course, the Klingon fans don't like having this pointed (pun not
 OE>intended) out.

Oh, I've always liked the Klingons, and don't mind the way they came into
existance.  Fits very well with the character of the first Klingons when you
think about it.  :->  I liked Kor; that business with him and Kirk at the end of
"Errand of Mercy" was a hoot.

Besides, I *am* a Klingon.  :->  About 20 years ago a group of us who lived in
the San Diego area formed the Klingon Star Empire.  That was fun - I joined in
at the coronation of the second Emperor, after he assassinated the first one
(same guy; different name; we were great believers in silliness.)  I've still
got a button around here somewhere showing a Klingon stomping on a tribble "They
make such a lovely noise when you squash them".  A batch of us went to see Flesh
Gordon and promptly applied the title given the villainous Emperor Wang (which I
probably better not repeat in here) to our own glorious Emperor.

(And then there was the time one of my characters assassinated his way clean up
the chain of command, in true Dr. Phibesian fashion, using personal ads in the
San Diego Reader, signing himself in each case "Your Successor."  Heh heh...)

--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 218 of 584
 From : Kay Shapero                         1:102/524       .óá 07 .åí 96 10:09
 To   : James Dixon
 Subj : Re: Klingons
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Sep 06 13:05>, James Dixon (1:2604/309) wrote to Kay Shapero:

 JD>That's the whole thing in a nutshell... But more to the point it
 JD>shows how little care is given to basic continuity... They accept
 JD>fans to simply edit their momories of what the original Klingons
 JD>looked like...

Or simply ignore the whole thing.  Actually, if they want to ignore continuity
in order to free up story prospects, what they ought to do is have something
dire happen to the Transporter technology.  That one S/FX budget saving feature
introduced at the beginning of the very first series has probably caused more of
a nuisance to writers than anything else I can think of.  To say nothing of what
some writers have added onto it.  If they *didn't* ignore continuity, the times
the Transporter was used to fix up someone with a disease or accelerated aging
or something provide quite enough precedent for functional immortality.  (True,
resetting the body ought to also reset the brain, but in the times they've tried
it it didn't always do so.)

And remember the galactic "warp speed limit"?  That had interesting potential
(how do you keep the Federation together when your distances are effectively
doubled, tripled or worse?), and it just sort of... evaporated.

Of course the thing you really want to do when you find everything you've done
before giving you fits is start a new story.  Pity they've been so timid about
the possibilities introduced even by so small a change as a new environment in
the same background; almost all of the real potential of Voyager still goes
unrealized.  Sigh...

KS>Klingons.  The Klingon Empire is a multi-species Empire, and the term
KS>"Klingon" refers to a member of that empire, sorta like the way members
KS>of the Federation are sometimes termed as "Feds" (though I don't think
KS>they use that term themselves.)  The first ones the Federation ran
KS>into were the more "humanoid" variety like Kor.

 JD>Yah, this is The first explanation suggested way back when ST-TMP
 JD>was released...

I remember.

KS>practice, he refined his little beasties and turned them loose, with
KS>the results that one planet full of Klingons became bright green
KS>asparagus people, rooted, and are still growing; another turned into
KS>amorphous blobs, fell through a convenient wormhole, mutated a bit and
KS>are now well established in the Gamma Quadrant as the Changlings; and
KS>the third and fourth took on the characteristics visible in the
KS>Klingons seen on the original Star Trek series  These happened to run
KS>into the Federation first.

 JD>Yah, something along these lines was in the new novel
 JD>"Infiltrator"...  But just not in regards to Klingons...

Someone actually USED that scenario?  Even funnier than I thought!


... "Hitchhiker's Guide to the Klingon Empire...

--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 219 of 584
 From : Jorj Strumolo                       1:323/140       .óá 07 .åí 96 04:36
 To   : FRANK SWARBRICK
 Subj : Red Dwarf
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

FS> After "Back To Reality," the end of series five, my local station
  > started again with the first episode, "The End."  Is it just that
  > they haven't purchased series six or is it not available in the U.S.?

 It's available, since the Providence station recently aired all
 six seasons, and is rerunning them now.  And of course I missed,
 again, the only episode I'd missed when they showed the series
 years ago (when they only showed four seasons, I think).  At
 least I've a shot at seeing it in a month or so.




--- BlueQWK/21 vEBJD
 * Origin: LSD iNFoSyS : "Where boys fear to tread..." (1:323/140)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 220 of 584
 From : Jeff Hancock                        1:106/564       .cê 08 .åí 96 17:38
 To   : DARRE LUALLEN
 Subj : Japanese SF
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

DL>(the language) and fan subs.  As for the latter, I'll pass the list
DL>along to the couple of fans here. Some of them have more money than
DL>sense, if you know the type.  I'll place an order soon as well.

The Fido host for Region 18, southeast, crashed, so I was calling
elsewhere and figured I'd pick up some old mail while I as at it.
So this one came up again.

If you ever sent in a request, I never got it.  Same for Michael Harper.

And while I'm at it, anyone who has a fairly recent copy of my list,
just wanted to let y'all know that the Patlabor tape is no longer
available; it's being released commercially.  Just found that out the
other day.

I still don't know for sure about the Miyazaki movies, but it doesn't
look good.

Also, I got in some music videos, but most of them aren't great.  AND, I
got in the fan-parodies 'Captain Harlock vs. Han Solo' and 'Captain
Harlock vs. The Empire'!  They're both terrific!  (well, the video is a
bit fuzzy and the audio muffled on the Han Solo one)  Also "The Empire
Strikes Back, by George Lucas, Age 9", done with action figures and
toys.

Plus Bad American Dubbing III ... ACK!  <g>

"Look, they're fighting!"  "I hope they both lose."

"There's a quasar heading towards earth!" (screen showing a comet)
"What's that?  I've never seen anything like it before!" (subtitle: It's
a COMET, STUPID!)

Then there was the little girl, perhaps 6 or 7, who wanted to travel
with the main characters leaving the village, and the voice-actor had
this sexy young voice asking "Are you going to take me now?"  (dub in
guys hooting and hollering in the background)

Perhaps the best bit of the tape was a show with two of the classic
giant robot characters (Grandizer and Great Mazinger?) fighting it out,
but it was "creatively" resubtitled for comedy effect... and the "new"
dialogue probably made better sense than the original, at that.
I had to keep stopping the tape every five minutes to finish choking and
laughing.  <g>  There was also a fan-DUB of an old black and white show
called "TekkaKnight the Space", with new voice dialogue this time.

The two Harlocks are on different tapes; might have to do some juggling
if someone just wanted them on one, but it costs less in packaging and
shipping to mail more than one tape anyway.  ;)  Interested parties
should be informed that there is a lot of profanity and a couple of
religious jabs in some of the material, though.

--- GEcho 1.00
 * OLX 2.2 * "Wolverine and Harlan Ellison?""Short and scrappy night."
 * Origin: Eat Flaming Death    Houston Texas    713-447-1927 (1:106/564)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 221 of 584
 From : Jeff Hancock                        1:106/564       .óá 07 .åí 96 15:33
 To   : PATTY MONIZ
 Subj : Japanese SF
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

PM> JH> Do you think we could drag Mr. Wills in here along with us?  ;-)
PM> Heaven forbid!  ^_^

Why not?  It could be.... interesting.  ^_-

PM> JH> They did have a warped sense of humor at times, at least from a
PM> Yes, there is some funny stuff in there.  Did you seen the one where
PM>Moon, Mercury, and Jupiter were smooshed together in an alley, trying

No, no, we don't get the dub over here, and all I've found of the
original is the first 16 episodes.  The last one I have was with Usagi
and Rei wanting to win the wedding dress contest.  (and nearly stealing
her lines again ;)

PM>nearly fried them all. When Mercury tried to do her attack, she fell
PM>over, with her but in the air. Makoto got a funny look on her face.
PM><g> Very funny stuff.  ;)

Sounds like it.  I've kind of been wondering about Makoto... What with
her temporary crush on Haruka and all.  <g>

PM> JH> Another weird one was "Here is Greenwood".  Someone showed up
PM> I LOVE Greenwood!  And I have that video!  At first, it was a little
PM>too wierd for me, but the more I watched, the more I liked it.  Now

It's definitely oddball.  I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of people
could relate to some of those sorts of things happening when THEY were
in college, though.  ;>

PM> JH>if Peach Wedding is truly as silly as advertised: "Saint Lip
PM> JH>Liner Lilly Rainbow!"???
PM> [jaw drops] No way!  You're kidding?!  ROTFL!!!!!

That's apparently one of the attacks...  they all seem to involve
"weapons of love", like lipstick, nail polish, perfume...  I guess it
was intended as a parody of Sailor Moon taken to the utter extreme, or
something. ^_^  But I only know what I've heard.

PM> PM>^_^ I still can't get over "Moon Gorgeous Meditation", and "Venus
PM> JH> Yeeks!  I saw the latter in a tagline, from the SuperS season?
PM> I don't know, I've never actually seen either of them.

So you have no idea what the attacks actually do, eh?  (well it's not
like "Sparkling Wide Pressure" really has anything to do with lightning
either!)

PM> JH> Still doesn't compare to the "Star Gentle Uterus" though.  <G>
PM> I STILL don't believe that!  The fact that they could get away with
PM>that attack is beyond me!

There must be some method to the madness.  ;)  Apparently the SuperS
season is very silly, but the Sailor Stars season after it gets more
serious.  Perhaps there was a backlash against the excessive cuteness,
either from the public or the people creating it. ;)
--- GEcho 1.00
 * OLX 2.2 * "Oh behalfs o' da moon, I'll spinach ya!"
 * Origin: Eat Flaming Death    Houston Texas    713-447-1927 (1:106/564)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 222 of 584
 From : Jeff Hancock                        1:106/564       .óá 07 .åí 96 15:40
 To   : PATTY MONIZ
 Subj : Japanese SF
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

PM> JH> With the caveat that I do *not* like what happened to the
PM> JH>American version of the show, what little I've seen of it.  ^_^
PM> ^_^  It was getting better toward the end.

I glanced over the faq, didn't really read it in depth since I haven't
seen and can't know exactly what they're talking about when they say
things were changed, other than by inference, but they did say that a
few of them, especially a block nearer the end, were fairly accurate.

PM> JH> Recently watched episodes 5-8, of which the first three were
PM> JH>entirely skipped in the Americanized version.  Episode five had
PM> Oooh!!  Lucky!!  How'd you get those?

A trader had the first 16 subs available.  Arctic Animation, though.
<grumble>  Pretty bad quality for the most part, but it's something!
He claims that there will be "more forthcoming", but no idea when, and I
haven't been able to get on his web page lately for some reason.  The
server never answers.

Hmmm.  Maybe it's in North Carolina, same as my Fido host (for the
southeastern region.  No mail!  Argh!)

PM> JH> don't see what was wrong with number six, unless an audiotape
PM> Wow.  They might have cut it just for time.  They signed for 65
PM>episodes, and had to cut a few of the originals out.

That could be.  I checked the FAQ and it said something about excessive
Japanese text that they would have had trouble removing, as well as the
scene where Usagi turns into a (punk) young adult and stops by the bar.
Of course she only tried to order a cream soda in the original...

PM> Oh, I think I've figured out the glowing rose!!  When he transforms,
PM>he pulls out his rose, and it glows!!  I just noticed a week ago.

I hadn't noticed at all, except for that one time, but that was
sparkling.  ;)

PM> JH> And that's not even mentioning the bathtub scene!  It's also
PM> There have been a few bathtub scenes, but they always either cut
PM>them out, or airbrush them.  Sometimes it's real obvious that they

What's kind of funny, I don't think there's any actual nudity in SM
except for a few cases later on, I think maybe in the S season.  But it
apparently comes close enough for the censors to get nervous.

PM>airbrushed it, other times it's not so bad.  You want to cause
PM>yourself real pain?  Watch the sub, then put on the dub.  You'll cry.
PM>Talk about your self-torture. <G>

That's kind of what happened when I first got to find out what all the
fuss was about, some kind soul had copied the first three original and
four of the first DIC episode on a tape...  the originals were pretty
fouled up by a crease in the tape though, on top of them being AA subs.
Even so, the difference was... ARGH!
--- GEcho 1.00
 * OLX 2.2 * "I, Damaramu, have made the blunder of a lifetime!"
 * Origin: Eat Flaming Death    Houston Texas    713-447-1927 (1:106/564)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 223 of 584
 From : Jeff Hancock                        1:106/564       .óá 07 .åí 96 16:00
 To   : MICHAEL HARPER
 Subj : Japanese SF
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

MH> JH> As long as you've got the one with the "new" pricing structure
MH> I think I do; I'll have to look...

I've been trying to play catch-up lately, have four tapes I need to
watch, three tapes I'm putting off because I can't or probably can't
offer 'em... nearly there, but there are more on order.  ;)

MH> JH> Haven't removed anything yet, but I guess I'm going to have to
MH> JH>drop some or all of the Miyazaki films, since apparently the
MH> Oh, Jesus... I've gotta get at a copy of Hollywood Reporter and see
MH>if there's anything on it... and I have a contact at Warner who keeps

Let me know.  I know two traders have dropped all of them, I really need
to ask them if they're overcompensating or if Disney HAS grabbed them
all.

They're going to have trouble with Pon Poko Tanuki, that's for sure!
The raccoons (shapeshifters) do some rather ... creative things with
their genitals.

When I first saw Kiki's, I was thinking "Now this is the sort of movie
that Disney ought to make!".  Then I thought how it would look if Disney
HAD.  For one thing, there's no real "villian", so they would have to
manufacture someone for the kiddies to boo at.  Characters would have to
go into a song and dance number every ten minutes at least.  A lot of
the simple splendor and subtle, real-life humor would have to be
removed, of course; although they might leave some of that in for the
appreciation of the parents.

MH> I'm outta work again, but I'm planning on going back to work in the
MH>next week if possible. I want all the Miyazaki you've got before the
MH>Mouse comes up with their bastardized versions.

Maybe they'll just release them direct to video without remaking them
for a big-screen production.  One can hope, anyway.

MH> two tapes of New Dominion Tank Police, the first two Dragon Knight
MH>episodes, and Ghost In The Shell, all good stuff. The Dominion stuff

I saw a few clips of Tank Police in a video or two from the tapes I
recently picked up; it LOOKS good.  Couldn't tell what the story was
like. ;)

Saw the first Dragon Knight, didn't much care for it.  It looked good,
and the video-game parody was kind of funny, but for the most part it
just looked like an excuse for cheesecake.  Not that that's all bad, but
it wasn't satisfying enough in other respects to justify the $20 I spent
on it.  Renting or borrowing would have been much better. ;)

Haven't seen the second, was it any better?

MH>Dragon Knight tapes were good middleweight semiporn fantasy. My only
MH>complaint is that A.D. seems to have edited the second one a bit,
MH>probably in order to make it more saleable; there's an oral sex scene
MH>where they matted out the girl's body, leaving the guy licking empty
MH>space...

That may not be their fault.  Japanese porn laws DO exist, and they
prohibit the depiction of pubic hair or genitals; so either the
animators have to leave them out, work around it, or if they are shown
then they have to be pixelated or otherwise censored.  So it could just
be that way in the original.  (the entire body?)

I heard a rumor that the laws might have changed "recently", but that
was a while back and I never heard anything else about it.

MH> Find a Japanese exchange student or someone else who speaks it as a
MH>first language; they're out there, and a lot of them are willing to
MH>do some tutoring in order to earn a few extra bucks. Check with the
MH>local university...

I'll have to give it a try, but this is a pretty low-end town in terms
of diversity.  We don't even have a decent bookstore, just a couple of
places that sell used books, and the mass-market WalMart/Kmart/etc.

MH> MH> See, that's my curse... I can never forget anything for long, no
MH> JH> I think I'd like a dose of that.  ;>
MH> It's not as attractive as it sounds; I can still remember arguments

I know, I know...  there are always things you'd like to forget.  I just
seem to have so much more I'd want to remember!

Of course it does make it somewhat easier to enjoy something you've seen
before when you don't remember *exactly* what happens in it. ;)

MH>I had with a girl I dated twenty years ago. The flip side being that

Ah, but did you come up with better arguments for if you should ever get
placed in that situation again?  ;)

MH> JH> (although I heard somewhere that the anime version was supposed
MH> JH>to *be* the original, just massively rebuilt)
MH> It was; the first few episodes of Yamato have Alex Wildstar trucking
MH>around in the wastelands of what used to be the Sea of Japan and
MH>finding what's left of the Yamato; next thing you know, they're

Huh.  Now that is neat.  Did they explain why the sea was no longer
there?  If anything, one expects the water level to rise, unless they
were going through another Ice Age.

MH>episodes made me think seriously about landing methods for heavy
MH>spacegoing vessels. Being aquacapable makes a hell of a lot of sense
MH>for a large ship; landing on the surface may or may not be possible,
MH>but if you've got a large enough body of water, and a strong enough
MH>hull, you can always float...

I remember thinking something similiar, although not as in-depth, wayyyy
back when I first watched Robotech and saw the Macross portion where the
SDF-1 landed in the ocean.  And of course by the end of the Macross
section, it had landed in an empty crater, and they'd filled it with
water to help support the weight of the thing.

MH> JH>What do you want to bet that some day they'll turn their
MH> JH>attention to the Dirty Pair?
MH> Highly unlikely anytime soon; Kei and Yuri are too racy for the
MH>Mouse's tastes right now. Sadly, I can see it happening some years
MH>down the road; I pray that it doesn't happen while Eisner is running

So you expect the Mouse to get racier?  ;>

If nothing else, they could revamp and sanitize it.  Of course then it
wouldn't be the Dirty Pair, but why should that stop them?
--- GEcho 1.00
 * OLX 2.2 * "Remember, talk is cheap, but ammo is cheaper!"
 * Origin: Eat Flaming Death    Houston Texas    713-447-1927 (1:106/564)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 224 of 584
 From : Jeff Hancock                        1:106/564       .óá 07 .åí 96 16:06
 To   : PATRICK DUDA
 Subj : Japanese SF
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

PD> Best Overall Anime: Macross, Super Dimernsional Fortress. The best

You mean the series or one of the movies? ;)

PD> Best Comedy Anime: Roujin Z. The only anime i've laughed

The only information I can find on this with what I have is that it's
about a "automated hospital bed that runs amok looking out for its
patient's welfare".  Sounds screwball, but what's it like otherwise?

PD> Best Action Anime: Akira. Non-stop action, and hey, it deserves some
PD>sort of award.

If you say so.  <g>  Saw some clips of that in some videos too, it
certainly looks sharp.

Ever see "Riding Bean"?

PD> Worst anime: DYRL english, runner up, probably Mad Bull.
PD> I'd watch either the first time, but not again.

Heh heh.

PD> Best Storyline: ??? What about wings of Hommenaise?

The thing is, what is a good story to one may not be a good story to
another, depending on what they like and how it appeals to them.  I
haven't seen WOH, but probably will sometime.  Saw some clips from it
though, and have heard about it.

--- GEcho 1.00
 * OLX 2.2 * "Quiet, or I'll blow your throat up."
 * Origin: Eat Flaming Death    Houston Texas    713-447-1927 (1:106/564)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 225 of 584
 From : Jeff Hancock                        1:106/564       .óá 07 .åí 96 16:11
 To   : PATRICK DUDA
 Subj : Japanese SF
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

PD>-> tell an entertaining story?  And is it internally self-consistant?
PD> But it's not (talking about cheep american cartoons). It looks like
PD>it uses whatever is convienient to forward the story with a minimum
PD>of thought. You have to see it, I guess.  With the other anime, when

I think I know what you're talking about, sort-of.  Although it sounds
like the answers are really simple, and the characters find them really
easily, and every problem has a quick and easy resolution.

But hey, it's intended for kids, isn't it?  Not that I don't think they
should have their minds stretched, but... I guess like you said, they
just aren't trying.

PD>->seven minutes good because the other 38 minutes were simply
PD>->building up to that?  Or could you have watched JUST the seven
PD> WEll, I would have liked it since it was a big battle scene. Of

I would make fun, but I know too well how you feel.  We all need a
little gratuitous F/X now and then. <g> (well, almost all)

PD>it's just that we spent an hour watching it and only one or two
PD>things was done. It was a waste of time, IMO. The whole hour and all

The last time I made an argument like this, Lis jumped in pointing out a
lot of things going on that I just hadn't noticed, and saying I
shouldn't belittle the changes that WERE made.  But I'm in no position
to judge if that was the case with this one you're talking about or not.

PD>we established was that a certain character could have feelings for
PD>another, with everything else going on in the background being
PD>dropped after that was done.

Sounds like the one with Odo moping over Kira after she got hooked up
with that Bajoran official.
--- GEcho 1.00
 * OLX 2.2 * Alright who's been running a Cream Lemon in the holodeck?
 * Origin: Eat Flaming Death    Houston Texas    713-447-1927 (1:106/564)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 226 of 584
 From : Jeff Hancock                        1:106/564       .óá 07 .åí 96 16:19
 To   : HENRY TRIPLETT
 Subj : Japanese SF
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

HT> JH> By the way, if that is Takeuchi on the end of one of my tapes,
HT>Well, did she look anything like Setsuna?  Or was I way out of the

I can't quite bring the two images together in my mind at the same time.
Need more buffer RAM.  <g>  Um, maybe you should decide for yourself?
<hint ;>

HT> JH> "Serena"'s brother.  I'm surprised he didn't break any of her
HT>Gee!  I knew he could be a real pain to Serena at times, but I didn't
HT>know he abused animals as well.  Then again, bullying boys seem to be

There's a specific reason which is elaborated upon.  And I *think* this
was after the <bum bum da bum> NEGA-VERSE!!! was involved.  Um, I mean
the Dark Kingdom.  ;)

HT> JH> Well it's nice to see she CAN do something on her own once in a
HT>You mean besides eat and whine?  <g>

Now now, she's a very sweet and caring person, she's just a little
simple-hearted and self-involved when others aren't in trouble.  <G>

That one with the wedding dress contest, she pulled that off without any
help from Tux either.  Rei and Ami, yes.  ;)

HT> JH> Probably not, but if she could just develop decent flight
HT>Yes!  But if she gets decent flight reflexes, maybe her luck factor
HT>might decline. 8-)

Not as long as she's the main character.  ;>

That reminds me of something... some parody, written or video, can't
remember.  Someone was wanting to make sure they were the main character
(when they weren't?) because "nothing permanently bad happens to the
main character".  He - or she - kept pushing into scenes trying to grab
all the attention so they wouldn't be killed off as a bit player.  <g>

HT> JH> The bathtub scene was when the star was first caught by the
HT>No, I think they left that particular scene in the DIC version.  I
HT>kind of remember it, vaguely.

Oh.  Oh well.  Either the censors slipped or I've gotten too biased
about them.

HT> JH> the Sailor Moon opening theme song (the FAQ says they kept the
HT> JH>joke - does that mean they used the American version or the
HT>The American version.

Ah, okay, that figures.  At least it was still funny.  ;)

HT> JH> so... "Molly" convinced "Melvin" to dress up in drag, with
HT>I think it was shown.  It's been awhile since I've seen it, so I'm

It doesn't matter.  I was wrong, so it really doesn't matter.  <grin>

HT>Maybe I'll get a chance to look now that I've finished the latest
HT>part of Sailor Babylon.

<Mr. Bill mode: on>  OHHHHHHHHHH NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!

--- GEcho 1.00
 * OLX 2.2 * RL=Vcc2/2PO, and this little piggy hit the ionosphere....
 * Origin: Eat Flaming Death    Houston Texas    713-447-1927 (1:106/564)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 227 of 584
 From : Jeff Hancock                        1:106/564       .óá 07 .åí 96 16:24
 To   : PATRICK DUDA
 Subj : Macross 7
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

PD>-> Yeah, I heard somewhere about one of the series essentially being
PD>->about two test pilots competing for the love of a woman, and
PD> You're kidding. Please tell me you don't mean that. You HAVE to, you
PD>just HAVE TO love Macross! Don't tell me you've been deprived! :)

I liked Robotech way back when it was first on.  I thought DYRL was kind
of interesting.  I really like the mecha designs, and kind of got
attached to the characters at one point in time.

Haven't seen any of the Macross II's and 7's and later gens yet.  For
that matter, I've never seen the originals (unedited) that made up the
three parts of Robotech.

PD>M7 is to my knowlege a series done like the first MAcross. LONG!

As long as it's interesting.  ;)
--- GEcho 1.00
 * OLX 2.2 * "Fatty, you with your thick face have hurt my instep."
 * Origin: Eat Flaming Death    Houston Texas    713-447-1927 (1:106/564)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 228 of 584
 From : Michael Harper                      1:123/10        .ÿò 06 .åí 96 19:33
 To   : Frank Glover
 Subj : Homeboys In Outer Splech!
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
While sipping a dry martini, Frank Glover told Brion Lienhart about
Homeboys In Outer Splech!...

 FG> Yeah. Just once I'd *like* to see Jimmy do something other than a
 FG> variation of Scotty. He's come to live with the type casting, but I
 FG> think *he'd* find it a refreshing change, too.

 And Jimmy's got a hell of a lot of range, too, which is what annoys me;
 the man's a dialectitian, for Christ's sake, he can hit all of 'em dead
 on the mark. You oughta hear his Georgia cracker sometime...

 If it were up to me, I'd put Jimmy on NYPD Blue or some other cop show
 playing an old, bad-tempered racist bunco or vice cop. Give him
 something with meat to it where he could be the most evil, nasty son of
 a bitch he could be, and turn him loose. That role would do for him
 what Alf Bester has done for Koenig; bury Montgomery Scott for good and
 all!


... My previous host, MacGyver Dax, could make a bomb out of a paper clip.
--- RA/FD/FMail
 * Origin: The Eclectic Fox -- Memphis TN  (901)327-1008 (1:123/10)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 229 of 584
 From : Michael Harper                      1:123/10        .ÿò 06 .åí 96 19:33
 To   : Frank Glover
 Subj : Japanese SF
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
While sipping a dry martini, Frank Glover told Michael Harper about Japanese
SF...

 MH>   the second one a bit, probably in order to make it more saleable;
 MH>   there's an oral sex scene where they matted out the girl's body,
 MH>   leaving the guy licking empty space...
 FG>
 FG> (From 2010) Dave Bowman's introduction to oral sex:
 FG>
 FG> "My God! It's full of stars!"
 FG>
 FG> Sorry, I *couldn't* let that pass...!

 <snarf!>

 Well, you coulda, but...

 And just for that, a new tagline...


... "I have this terrible taste in my mouth..." --Dr. Chandra
--- RA/FD/FMail
 * Origin: The Eclectic Fox -- Memphis TN  (901)327-1008 (1:123/10)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 230 of 584
 From : Lis Carey                           1:322/743       .cê 08 .åí 96 12:36
 To   : Bob Klahn
 Subj : BY FORCE OF ARMS
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
BK> BK>>  One I always liked was, " A man should always be ready to shoot his
BK> BK>> own  dog."
BK> BC>
BK> BK>>  I know that was Heinlein, I think it was LL.
BK> BC>
BK> BC> "When the need arises--and it does--you must be able to shoot
BK> BC> your own dog. Don't farm it out--that doesn't make it nicer, it
BK> BC> makes it worse."
BK> BC>                                         -- Woodrow Wilson Smith

BK> I was sure it was RAH, got the wrong character, though.

No, you didn't, not really. Woodrow Wilson Smith was the name that
character was born with, and "Lazarus Long" was a name he used a great
deal of the time, later on in a very, very, long life.

 * OLX 2.1 TD * "Cats, like butterflies, need no excuse." - Heinlein

--- TriToss (tm) Professional 10.0 - #66
 * Origin: Keystone BBS * Shrewsbury,MA * 1-508-753-3767 (1:322/743.0)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 231 of 584
 From : Justin Mohareb                      1:249/127       .óá 07 .åí 96 14:38
 To   : Frank Glover
 Subj : Re: Favourite Trek movie
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 -=> Quoting Bobby Rissler to Frank Glover <=-

 FG>    You think this was the first time Trek (or any
 FG> other SF) has stepped into the paradoxical mine field
 FG> that time travel causes? Presumably Scotty anc McCoy
 FG> felt the could get away with giving away the formula
 FG> for transparent aluminum because the identity of its
 FG> creator is a lost historical fact to them. It could
 FG> just as well have been that guy. Selling Kirk's

Actually, in the novelization, they pointed out that he WAS the guy;
I think Scotty was just kinda surprised that he hadn't come up with the
idea yet.

JJ Mohareb

... "So she's really a demon?" "Yep." "Wow! Never had sex with one!"
___ Blue Wave/386 v2.30 [NR]

--- Maximus 2.01wb
 * Origin: *Synthesis*  Kingston, Ont., Canada! (1:249/127)

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 Msg  : 232 of 584
 From : Peter McNeill                       1:244/116       .cê 08 .åí 96 19:09
 To   : Phill Ash
 Subj : SPACE: ABOVE AND BEYOND -
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: FastEcho 1.45a 10452
Hello Phill!

Tuesday September 03 1996 10:14, Phill Ash wrote to Roy Stevens:

 PA>> B5 doesn't try to make us believe that, in the FUTURE,
 PA>> Marines       won't get haircuts  <G>

 RS>> Rangers (Marcus) don't seem to have to.

 PA>         Those "Rangers" are a paramilitary organisation established by
 PA>         Sinclair as a joint Minbari-Earth endeavor... it is a
 PA> secretive
 PA>         organisation whose members must be able to blend-in with every
 PA>         layer of society...  There is no evidence to suggest that it
 PA> is
 PA>         an extention of the modern US Army Rangers.


B'sides, why should it mean they'd have to? Take a look a legit military arms
like the British SAS where they can look scruffy, have long hair, and chose
their own weapons..

... The tuna just doesn't taste the same without Flipper
--- GoldED 2.50+
 * Origin: If you want my address, it's #1 at the end of the bar. (1:244/116)

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 Msg  : 233 of 584
 From : Frank Swarbrick                     1:104/825       .óá 07 .åí 96 23:18
 To   : Dave Ewen
 Subj : B-5
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12  92-0022
On 09-06-96  23:45, shipwrecked and comatose, Dave Ewen said:

 DE> It occured to me that I have yet to see any scenes on B-5 that match
 DE> what I had assumed was the central premise of the program:

 DE> Who here can explain how this 'U.N. building in space' conducts the
 DE> business that is its central purpose? Of the few episodes I have seen
 DE> none of them seemed in any way related to such a ongoing purpose.

Well, there was quite a bit more of this type of thing in the first
season, but now that they've got bogged down in the Shadow War, not to
mention the station seceding from the Earth Allience, etc., they've
gotten a little distracted.

 DE> What happened to B-1, B-2, B-3, and B-4?  And who would ever believe
 DE> that the same project name would continue to be used after all these
 DE> failures?

I won't get into this...

 DE> I've been catching an occasional episode and never seeing anything I
 DE> thought was all that good. Now finally I've seen a few episodes I
 DE> liked. How rare are good episodes?

Not very!  What episodes have you seen?  Not that there hasn't been
occasional not so good ones, but most of the recent ones have been
good to great, IMO.

        Frank

... "How will this end?"  "In Fire..."
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12
 * Origin: The Bailey Information Exchange BBS, 28.8k v.fc  (1:104/825.0)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 234 of 584
 From : Frank Swarbrick                     1:104/825       .cê 08 .åí 96 20:15
 To   : Owen E. Oulton
 Subj : on Sci-Fi Channel
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12  92-0022
On 09-06-96  11:24, shipwrecked and comatose, Owen E. Oulton said:

 FS> Do you, or anyone, know what the deal with series six is?  After "Back
 FS> To Reality," the end of series five, my local station started again
 FS> with the first episode, "The End."  Is it just that they haven't
 FS> purchased series six or is it not available in the U.S.?  Hmmm...

 OEO> I have the entirety of season six, taped off a PBS channel somewhere
 OEO> out west.
 OEO> They apparently ran them back to back, interrupted only by whining for
 OEO> cash (sorry, pledge week) between episodes, which I edited out when I
 OEO> made my copy. It's likely that your station just decided not to buy the
 OEO> season (or, as the British say, "series").

Hmmm, maybe I better do a little pledging so they'll pick up series
six!  Hmmm...

...later...

The Red Dwarf episode they showed last night was "Psirens," so it
looks like they have series six after all.  Dunno why they showed "The
End" last week.

So I'm happy.

        Frank

... Soul Windows (Version 3.1)
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12
 * Origin: The Bailey Information Exchange BBS, 28.8k v.fc  (1:104/825.0)

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 Msg  : 235 of 584
 From : J.T. Smith                          1:132/152       .ÿò 06 .åí 96 00:52
 To   : Bobby Rissler
 Subj : Re: Favourite Trek movie of a
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.SPTH: Fidonet#1:132/152
From a man who's physically phht.

 BR> also cool when spock mind-melded with the whale.  All the other
 BR> times we saw a vulcan mind-meld it was with another humanoid.
 LR>  Ahhhh, I'd advise you to rewatch "Devil in the dark" if you can.
 BR> Never saw that episode.  I haven't got in the mail yet.  I'll try
 BR> and see that as soon as I can.  Most of the times though they melded
 BR> with another humanoid.

 I'd also recommend rewatching ST:TMP.  In it, Spock mind-melded with V-Ger.



... What I miss of college was staying up all night cramming.
--- AdeptXBBS v1.08a25 (VC) (Registered)
 * Origin: The Cereal Port BBS (603)899-3335 199.125.78.133 (1:132/152)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 236 of 584
 From : J.T. Smith                          1:132/152       .ÿò 06 .åí 96 01:01
 To   : Brion Lienhart
 Subj : B-5
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.SPTH: Fidonet#1:132/152
From a man who's physically phht.

 -DE>I'm trying to get up to speed on B-5. What are the Rangers doing?
 -DE>Seems like they are some sort of secret.
 BL> Well, Lord Zed and Rita got together and kicked their butts.

 If only!! D)

... WOKQ 97.5: "If you can't get us at home, move."
--- AdeptXBBS v1.08a25 (VC) (Registered)
 * Origin: The Cereal Port BBS (603)899-3335 199.125.78.133 (1:132/152)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 237 of 584
 From : Frank Glover                        1:2613/477      .cê 08 .åí 96 18:43
 To   : Kay Shapero
 Subj : Re: Star Trek Voyager
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

KS>  ever leaving Peru.  They've lost sight of the sheer *scale* of it all
KS>  except as an explanation of why they don't get back home immediately.
KS>   There's enough room for several major interstellar societies, each
KS>  unaware of the others!

   And some in between, marginally aware of the others; "Yes, our most distant
exploration ships have made contact with another civilization on the far side of
*their* known space who found wreckage (never mind who did it, that could be a
story itself) of a ship of beings calling themselves `Borgs' whose computers
still held data about something call the `United Federation of Planets....' or
maybe it was `Earth Alliance...' I cannot be sure."

KS>  that far.  All they have to do is figure out how Voyager is going to
KS>  pay for it.  Both sides are being perfectly fair and reasonable; the
KS>  problem is figuring out who values what and how much of it makes up
KS>  an equitable trade.  Information?  Artwork? [And what IS artwork to
KS>  something that sees into the ultraviolet, is blind to red, and
KS>  evolved from a vaguely canid carnivore?])

   I'm reminded how some thought was given to the fact that the plaque on the
Pioneer probes should have about the same contrast in the infrared as they do in
visible light....

   But selling information has been explored on Voyager before. There can be a
problem where Prime Directive concerns are involved, though this would matter
only with civilizations already capable of warp (or other FTL) travel, anyway.

   In Niven's Known Space, Bewoulf Schaffer, having been there via the quantum
II hyperdrive, sold the fact that the galactic core is exploding to the
Outsiders (who were heading coreward at sub-light, and trusting their reputation
to put a fair value on it), in exchange for other information. Perhaps some of
the Gamma quadrant races would want to know about potential threats like the
Borg, or the beings from Andromeda that Kirk encountered?

   Frank


--- QuickBBS 2.85 (Beta-1) GoldBase
 * Origin: The Matrix Data Bank BBS, Rochester, Ny (1:2613/477)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 238 of 584
 From : Frank Glover                        1:2613/477      .cê 08 .åí 96 18:57
 To   : Kay Shapero
 Subj : Re: Klingons
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

KS>  believers in silliness.)  I've still got a button around here
KS>  somewhere showing a Klingon stomping on a tribble "They make such a
KS>  lovely noise when you squash them".  A batch of us went to see Flesh

   Assuming Klingons still have the same physical reaction to them (and vice
versa), I'm still waiting for an episode/movie where Worf encounters a
Tribble....

KS>  Gordon and promptly applied the title given the villainous Emperor
KS>  Wang (which I probably better not repeat in here) to our own glorious
KS>  Emperor.

   Which reminds me of how David Gerrold once described Klingons as the
descendants of Ming of Mongo, selectively inbred for sheer awfulness....

   Frank


--- QuickBBS 2.85 (Beta-1) GoldBase
 * Origin: The Matrix Data Bank BBS, Rochester, Ny (1:2613/477)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 239 of 584
 From : Todd Sullivan                       1:202/720.3     .ÿò 06 .åí 96 16:55
 To   : Bert Faes
 Subj : New Star Wars movies
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Reports from the Interior indicate that Bert Faes leaked the following to David
Little, re: New Star Wars movies

 >>         hehe...It's not "Shadows of the Empire", that's the name of the
 >> newest
 >> multimedia product, but the re-release of the trilogy is named "Star
 >> Wars:
 >> Special Edition". The new SW prequels have yet to be named.

 BF> Are the gona take the same actors or who's gona play into the episodes
 BF> ?
 BF> Maybe the original actors are a bit out of the age but they are almost
 BF> 'legendary', I'll suck when the use others...

According to the rumor mill, Mark Hamill will play Anakin Skywalker. Supposedly,
they're waiting for him to age into the part, or so the word was.

Nothing else.

Todd Sullivan

... A man who reads a woman like a book must prefer braille!

-*- ASTG 1.9

--- Spot 1.3a Unregistered
 * Origin: Todd's Spot in the Continuum (1:202/720.3)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 240 of 584
 From : Todd Sullivan                       1:202/720.3     .ÿò 06 .åí 96 16:57
 To   : Bobby Rissler
 Subj : Favourite Trek movie of a
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Reports from the Interior indicate that Bobby Rissler leaked the following to
Frank Glover, re: Favourite Trek movie of a

 FG>>    The silicon-based Horta? The artificial
 FG>> intelligences of Nomad and V'ger?
 FG>>
 BR>   I'll agree with V'ger but what is the artifical intelligence of
 BR> Nomad.  What episode is that.  I have not got all of the episodes in my
 BR> collection yet.

The episode in question is "The Changeling", based on an old Eurpoean legend.


Todd Sullivan

... "Open the disk drive door, Hal."
     "Not until you get rid of that WindowsNT CD, Dave."

-*- ASTG 1.9

--- Spot 1.3a Unregistered
 * Origin: Todd's Spot in the Continuum (1:202/720.3)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 241 of 584
 From : Todd Sullivan                       1:202/720.3     .óá 07 .åí 96 19:44
 To   : Patrick Duda
 Subj : Japanese/US SF/Animation
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Reports from the Interior indicate that Patrick Duda leaked the following to
Jeff Hancock, re: Japanese SF

 ->> Don't ask me, I haven't seen it.  ;)  But the real point is, does it
 ->> tell an entertaining story?  And is it internally self-consistant?

 PD>  But it's not (talking about cheep american cartoons). It looks like it
 PD> uses whatever is convienient to forward the story with a minimum of
 PD> thought. You have to see it, I guess.  With the other anime, when

As far as this discussion of animation (Nippon vs US) goes, the only quality
animation I can recall seeing (Plot, animation and effects) from the US would be
"Heavy Metal", and I seem to recall that it was influenced a bit by Anime.

Of course, one has to explain "Sailor Moon" after seeing "Vampire Hunter D",
just like Scooby Doo and it's Hanna-Barbera cousins post"/Jonny/ /Quest/".


Todd Sullivan

... Catholic Church:  Elderly celibates clueless about the real world.

-*- ASTG 1.9

--- Spot 1.3a Unregistered
 * Origin: Todd's Spot in the Continuum (1:202/720.3)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 242 of 584
 From : Todd Sullivan                       1:202/720.3     .óá 07 .åí 96 19:49
 To   : Bobby Rissler
 Subj : Trek movies
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Reports from the Interior indicate that Bobby Rissler leaked the following to
me, re: Trek movies

 TS>> They're not up to TOS standards, unless the writing
 TS>> improves and the Politically Correct BS goes in the
 TS>> dumpster where it belongs.

 BR>   I know what you mean.  Voyager deals a lot more with emotion and
 BR> conflict and less with action and adventure.  Like that episode with
 BR> tuvix.  It had more emotion then was neccesary.

After seeing the season opener, I find myself cautiously optimistic.  Now if
they could do that with DS9, I'd be happier.

F/X are nice, but frosting is useless without the cake, if you get my meaning.

Todd Sullivan

... "Lark's vomit!  It don't say nothing about lark's vomit on the box!"

-*- ASTG 1.9

--- Spot 1.3a Unregistered
 * Origin: Todd's Spot in the Continuum (1:202/720.3)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 243 of 584
 From : Todd Sullivan                       1:202/720.3     .óá 07 .åí 96 19:54
 To   : Leman Russ
 Subj : Sound Suppressors/Space Firearms
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Reports from the Interior indicate that Leman Russ leaked the following to Brion
Lienhart, re: SOUND SUPRESSORS

 LR>  Actually the point I was trying to make was that a projectile weapon
 LR> could work in vacuum, so I was right.

 LR>  Also, you were right about the vacuum welding, but that would only be
 LR> true of guns not made for vacc duty. The lunar rover worked fine
 LR> because it was made to work in vacc. They could get an ammo loader,
 LR> firing pin, trigger, etc to work in vacc.

It's in the works, going by trends I've noticed.  If Glock or Ram-Line manages
to perfect ceramics as they seen to be headed, that would solve a lot of
problems.  It's obvious that not all of a firearm can be plastic/composite or
ceramic, but less steel would help.

 LR>  NOW, the real problem with normal type guns in vacc is recoil in low
 LR> gravity. For that, I recomend using gyrojets.

I doubt it.  Gyros are more expensive than those Glasers you mentioned.  It
seems to me that they'd be more likely to go with the H/K G-11 concept of a
fairly massy weapon with lighter bullets.

After all, in space, the slightest suit puncture is a severe problem.

Todd Sullivan

... "No.  It won't happen.  I won't let it happen." --Sinclair

-*- ASTG 1.9

--- Spot 1.3a Unregistered
 * Origin: Todd's Spot in the Continuum (1:202/720.3)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 244 of 584
 From : Todd Sullivan                       1:202/720.3     .óá 07 .åí 96 19:56
 To   : Leman Russ
 Subj : SOUND SUPRESSORS
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Reports from the Interior indicate that Leman Russ leaked the following to Brion
Lienhart, re: SOUND SUPRESSORS

 BL>> bottom of the case. If you don't know what you're talking about,
 BL>> it's best not to spread misinformation.

 LR>  BTW, you don;t have to be so damn snide, you know.

 LR>  I think this media brings out peoples rudeness and snideness, due to
 LR> the safety it offers....

That, and righteous indignation and sarcasm can't be recognized from one's tone
of voice.

Besides, if you think it's bad here, how'd you prefer face to face, where
someone can lash out for real?  At least here there's a modicum of fairness, at
least if you can say it without having to fall back on rudeness and vulgarity
and insults.

Did that hit home?  You pays your money and takes your chances.

Todd Sullivan

... "This must be just like living in Paradise, and I don't want to go
     home!" --David Lee Roth

-*- ASTG 1.9

--- Spot 1.3a Unregistered
 * Origin: Todd's Spot in the Continuum (1:202/720.3)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 245 of 584
 From : Richard Sarner                      1:271/236       .cê 08 .åí 96 10:51
 To   : Dave Ewen
 Subj : B-5
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE 1.11+
In a message to All <09-06-96 23:45> Dave Ewen wrote:

DE=> what I had assumed was the central premise of the program:
DE=> Who here can explain how this 'U.N. building in space' conducts the
DE=> business that is its central purpose? Of the few episodes I have seen
DE=> What happened to B-1, B-2, B-3, and B-4?  And who would ever believe
DE=> that the same project name would continue to be used after all these
DE=> failures?

B5 was written differently than most shows. It is meant to be a complete novel
spanning 5 years, and what we have seen is mostly the exposition and are only
just getting towards the focal point. B5 is the place that the beginning of the
story unfolds, not the emphasis, it could be destroyed and the tale would
continue in other places. B1-3 were blown up before thry came online. B4
dissappeared moments before it came online. B5 was created with the help of the
Minbari, who shared Earth's belief that understanding was the essential key to
avoiding further violence in the galaxy. They point of the show? Listen to the
narration in the credits: 'It was the dawn of the Third Age of Mankind.' We have
learned whom the characters are, how they interact, and enough of the history to
understand where they are, and now. with the end of the Shadow War, the true
focus of the show is about to come to pass.
If you would name some of the episodes you liked (or describe them) perhaps it
would be eaiser to help you understand how the others fit into the perspective
of them.

...Richard

--- GEcho 1.11+
 * Origin: THE TIME MACHINE (804)599-6401 TRAVEL THE PORTALS! (1:271/236)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 246 of 584
 From : Owen E. Oulton                      1:243/45        .îí 09 .åí 96 02:08
 To   : Kay Shapero
 Subj : Re: Klingons
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 KS> way they came into existance.  Fits very well with the
 KS> character of the first Klingons when you think about
 KS> it.  :->  I liked Kor; that business with him and Kirk
 KS> at the end of "Errand of Mercy" was a hoot.

I still like Kor...  Seeing the Three Klingeteers (Kor, Koloth and Kang)
together again for the first time in Blood Oath was a real treat.

CFN, O

--- Maximus 2.01wb
 * Origin: Pandora's Box, Ottawa, Ont. 613-829-1209 (1:243/45)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 247 of 584
 From : Owen E. Oulton                      1:243/45        .îí 09 .åí 96 02:10
 To   : Dave Ewen
 Subj : Re: SOUND SUPRESSORS
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

BL> The main problem with shooting in a vacuum would be vacuum welding of
BL> action.

OEO> Yep, that would be a problem (of course, if you're in zero gee, recoil
OEO> would also be a problem).  To avoid vacuum welding, I suspect that you'd
OEO> want as much polymer and carbon composite construction as is practicable
OEO> in the weapon, as well as a hard teflon or similar finish on all mating
OEO> metal surfaces,

 DE> What is vacuum welding?

Metal surfaces which are in contact in a hard vacuum over a period of time tend
to bond together.  This bond is called a "vacuum weld."  One of the more
technically or scientifically trained people here can likely give you more
detail.

CFN, O

--- Maximus 2.01wb
 * Origin: Pandora's Box, Ottawa, Ont. 613-829-1209 (1:243/45)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 248 of 584
 From : Bob Klahn                           1:234/2         .cê 08 .åí 96 22:34
 To   : James Dixon
 Subj : FAVOURITE TREK MOVIE
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
BK>> The great weakness of TMP was set from the start. They did not have an
BK>> original idea in their heads, so they reached back into the old series to
BK>> warm over an old plot. From there they were doomed.

 JD> It wasn't all That close to "The Changeling"... Thing is, they kept
 JD> rewriting the script and originally there was to be a more meaty middle
 JD> and end to the film...

 It was too close, just the basic plot idea was too much.

BK>> plot and dialog. However, Dune also had great FX and an even better
BK>> musical
BK>> score. The move stunk all the same.

 JD> The Dune film wasn't all That bad either... Let's face it, a novel that

 It stunk.

 JD> thick and concentrated simply wasn't meant to be made into a motion
 JD> picture... Any attempt was doomed to fail... And either way it wouldn't
 JD> be able to satisfy newcomers 100% or die hard fans 100%...

  The movie was too short to do the book justice, but still cost way too
  much. Satisfying new comers or old fans wasn't the point, half the plot
  lines were short changed from the word go. There were so many elements that
  made sense if you knew the book, but were just hanging out there in space
  if you hadn't. The 'voice' was hokey, the sonic weapons were even hokeyier,
  and that merry-go-round weapons controls the Emporer's forces had were the
  worst.

  It should have been a miniseries. That's the only way they could have done
  it. That and stay closer to the book.

 JD> which showed pretty much No love for Star Trek... When they began
 JD> destroying Enterprises and killing off mainstream characters for the
 JD> sake of big bucks...

 I was impressed when they destroyed the first Enterprise, I figured that
 showed guts. The last time, Generations, I got to wondering why. But I
 wondered that about most of the movie anyway.

 JD> Well, that's what it is Now... Voyager's in The saddest shape... I just
 JD> saw "Basics, Part II" the other night and I tell ya, I must've guessed
 JD> 75% of the plot ahead of time...

 I'm still trying to figure out how they managed to get so many incompetents
 aboard the starships that they keep getting boarded and taken by their
 enemies.

BOB KLAHN   bob.klahn@toltbbs.com

... I invite dissenting opinions, then I ignore them.
 * Silver Xpress V4.3P RB10275

--- FLAME v1.1
 * Origin: Telnet toltbbs.com or call 313-854-6001, Boardwatch #55 (1:234/2)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 249 of 584
 From : Bob Klahn                           1:234/2         .cê 08 .åí 96 22:34
 To   : James Dixon
 Subj : HOMEBOYS IN OUTER SPL
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
BK>> JD> As for James Doohan starring... Well, I Hope it was just a one-shot
BK>> JD> one-episode cameo... I still don't think he can get as low as
BK>> Nichelle
BK>> JD> Nichols backing the Psychotic Network...

BK>> Don't you recall the problems the non-leading characters from TOS had
BK>> getting jobs afterwards? Don't you recall the low pay scales they had to
BK>> settle for?

BK>> I'd say they were pretty well hard up for work.

 JD> Yah, but there are Limits to how far down one can sink... Doohan's cameo
 JD> is tolerable compared to Nichols and Whitney... I've no tolerance

 Whitney?

 JD> whatsoever for Anyone who backs the Psychic network and related ripoff

 Well, I can't argue that part. I consider *ALL* 900 numbers ripoffs.

 I was going to say that some people actually believe it that stuff, but even
 that doesn't justify $4/min. Esp since they know they are preying on
 vulnerable people.

 JD> rackets... Prostitution is more honorable by comparison, at least it
 JD> serves an honest public need...

 Well, I can't argue with that either.

BOB KLAHN   bob.klahn@toltbbs.com

... Heck was created for those who refuse to believe in Gosh
 * Silver Xpress V4.3P RB10275

--- FLAME v1.1
 * Origin: Telnet toltbbs.com or call 313-854-6001, Boardwatch #55 (1:234/2)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 250 of 584
 From : Bob Klahn                           1:234/2         .cê 08 .åí 96 22:34
 To   : Nicolai Shapero
 Subj : BY FORCE OF ARMS
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 NS> I would strongly suggest that you drop the subject of the civil war, as
 NS> it is grossly off topic for this conference.

 Already dropped.

BOB KLAHN   bob.klahn@toltbbs.com

... Picard: There's ice striking the hull!  Worf: We're being hailed.
 * Silver Xpress V4.3P RB10275

--- FLAME v1.1
 * Origin: Telnet toltbbs.com or call 313-854-6001, Boardwatch #55 (1:234/2)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 251 of 584
 From : Kay Shapero                         1:102/524       .cê 08 .åí 96 13:56
 To   : Dave Ewen
 Subj : B-5 (part 1)
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Sep 06 23:45>, Dave Ewen (1:266/167) wrote to All:

 DE>Who here can explain how this 'U.N. building in space' conducts
 DE>the business that is its central purpose? Of the few episodes I have
 DE>seen none of them seemed in any way related to such a ongoing purpose.

{and so on}

Actually that's your problem right there; you've only seen a few episodes,
widely spaced, and like as not not even in order given WB's propensities for
saving new episodes for sweeps periods and giving us reruns the rest of the
time.  There ARE only 22 episodes per season, which doesn't help in that regard.

The problem is, this is more like a really long miniseries than a standard US
style TV series.  The latter have a tendancy to be very episodic; rather like a
collection of short stories written about the same characters and general
setting, but with the authors being unaware for the most part of the work of the
others. The result can frequently be shown in any order, and don't always
continue the precidents set in the previous episodes to the next ones.  If they
do, it's generally during the season break, so the next set of writers have the
change before they start writing.  Each episode tends to be a self-contained
unit in and of itself.

OTOH, Babylon 5 is more like a mini-series of unusual size, or a novel for
television.  Each episode is a chapter in an ongoing story, and not particularly
self contained - there will be one or two plots resolved in the story, but there
will also be a lot of continuations of plot threads that begain in earlier
episodes and are resolved much later.  Every one of the questions you ask has
been answered, but things can be and are allowed to remain unsolved over many
episodes first.  And if you DO see them out of order, they are bound to be
confusing.  Especially since the story has just passed the midpoint (it's 5
seasons long, and season 3 has 5 episodes to go, thanks to WB's decision to save
them for October).  It's sorta like you'd picked up The Lord Of The Rings, and
read a few random chapters out of order to see what it was about.  Say, you
start with "A Long Expected Party"; introducing the hobbits, the Shire and the
Ring - but only as a somewhat weird artifact that turns you invisible.  Then the
next thing you read is "At the Sign of the Prancing Pony", and there's some of
the hobbits you met in the first scene travelling outside the Shire and they're
in some difficulty because of the aforementioned Ring, but why is Frodo hiding
his name and what IS the problem?  Then you skip to "The Riders of Rohan" and
you're someplace completely different, the hobbits are nowhere in sight (though
some of them seem to have been kidnapped by the Orcs), and who the heck are
these Aragorn, Legolas and Gimli folks who are attempting to rescue them,
tracking them in part because of some elf brooch that apparently belongs to one
of the hobbits, there are references to the power of some entity called
"Saruman", and iirc the Ring makes no appearance at all.  Now drop back to
"Lothlorian" and you find out a bit more about Aragorn, and indications that
Gandalf from the first chapter joined the party somewhere along the line but got
killed, references to a Shadow on the land and "The Enemy" but no further data
on the latter.  Though you might suspect Saruman was the name of The Enemy (and
be wrong.)  You know that the Ring (spelled in capitals) was important but you'd
still have no idea *why*.  And you'd likely have a poor opinion of the writer
because of all the unresolved features.

OTOH, if you'd read the whole thing from the start, there would be no confusion
as you reached any of those chapters.

(oops - running out of room.  See next post for the rest.)

--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 252 of 584
 From : Kay Shapero                         1:102/524       .cê 08 .åí 96 13:58
 To   : Dave Ewen
 Subj : B-5 (part 2)
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
(continued from previous post)

Well, I'm not going to tell you the entire story of B5 to this point from a
standing start because I'd confuse you further.  If you've got World Wide Web
connections, look up the Lurker's Guide to B5 on http://www.hyperion.com.  John
Kahane has done a number of summaries of the earlier episodes which are
available for f'req or download from the system he usually posts from. (Sorry,
can't find the address but he does post in here from time to time.)

I *will* answer your questions (they've been answered ON the show by now; just
not up front.)

 DE>Who here can explain how this 'U.N. building in space' conducts
 DE>the business that is its central purpose? Of the few episodes I have
 DE>seen none of them seemed in any way related to such a ongoing purpose.

There's a multiworld council located on the place, and we have seen a number of
meetings of it.  It's chaired by the human commander (being as the humans built
the place), and members include the various Ambassadors (though since the
Centauri conquered the Narn, the former Narn ambassador, G'Kar, has been
replaced on the council by a Centauri representative.  G'Kar's still on board
for various complicated reasons you'll understand better after you see the
synopses.)

 DE>What happened to B-1, B-2, B-3,

Blown up by saboteurs.

 DE>and B-4?

Stolen... see in particular "Babylon Squared", from the first season which shows
one side of it, and "War Without End" parts 1 and 2 from the third season which
show the other.

DE>And who would ever believe that the same project name would continue to
DE> be used after all these failures?

Mostly sheer stubbornness - they only built the fifth one because the Minbari
chipped in... and while we have still not been told *precisely* why, the above
referenced episodes leave me with some strong suspicions.

 DE>I've been catching an occasional episode and never seeing
 DE>anything I thought was all that good. Now finally I've seen a few
 DE>episodes I liked. How rare are good episodes?

As I see it, most of 'em are good.  But you have to have some idea of what's
gone before.

One hint - the first season was spent mostly introducing us to the characters
and some of the political dynamics.  We get our first introduction to the
Shadows.. sorta.  The second showed the characters growing and developing in
sometimes surprising manners (Londo Mollari being a good example). "Nobody here
is quite what they appear to be." seems to be the guiding principle here.  I
don't think anybody in the third season is quite who or what they were in the
beginning.  You see the beginning of the troubles which are in full swing by
season 3.

--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 253 of 584
 From : Kay Shapero                         1:102/524       .cê 08 .åí 96 14:23
 To   : James Dixon
 Subj : Klingons              01/
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Sep 06 20:41>, James Dixon (1:2604/309) wrote to Patrick Duda:

 JD>That's a point I'm always making... Treknical publications
 JD>started over 20 years ago... There's this current "trend" to bury
 JD>the past and pretend that nothing in print goes back further than
 JD>the 90s...  Here's a
 JD>few sources from my chronology file--strictly ones I used for the
 JD>chronology, mind you...

And kinda hard to figure out since you only give the titles and not the dates of
publication, then show them in what looks like alphabetical order.  (I'm mildly
curious - do you happen to have the Franz Joseph Enterprise plans - both the
original Equicon blueprint version and the production ones that went into the
bookstores - in that list?  If not, they'd fit in 1974, and are the earliest
"official", or at least authorized by Paramount, blueprints I'm aware of.)

--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 254 of 584
 From : Nicolai Shapero                     1:102/524       .cê 08 .åí 96 22:19
 To   : Bill Clements
 Subj : SOUND SUPRESSORS
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Sep 04 14:08>, Bill Clements (1:18/230) wrote to Leman Russ:

 BC>    9 parts Charcoal                      * Moderator
 BC>    2 parts Sulphur                       * Fuel
 BC>    2 parts Potassium Nitrate (Saltpeter) * Oxidizer

The way I'd heard it, the proportions were: 75:15:10 (or 15:3:2).  Slightly
different from your proportions.  But that's what horseraces are about, i
suppose...

:-)

-- Nicolai Shapero, the Mad Russian Sysop of StormGate Aerie

--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 255 of 584
 From : JEFF FOY                            1:343/210       .pä 21 .âã 96 16:16
 To   : JARED CALLANAN
 Subj : Kindred;The Embraced
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

JC> ANyone like the show Kindred:The Embraced???

Yes, indeed! It became a favorite even though it was only a limited run.

Jeff

 * 1st 1.10 #2597 * Character is power. - Booker T. Washington
--- Platinum Xpress/Win/Wildcat5! v2.0GG
 * Origin: Grey Matter : (206) 528-1941 (1:343/210)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 256 of 584
 From : Patty Moniz                         1:260/388       .óá 07 .åí 96 19:38
 To   : FRANK SWARBRICK
 Subj : on Sci-Fi Channel
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE 1.11+
---On 09-04-96  19:47, Frank Swarbrick chatted about on Sci-Fi Channel...

 FS> Red Dwarf is currently airing on our local PBS station here in Denver.
 FS> This is the first time I've seen the show, and I like it a lot.  Just
 FS> saw "Back To Reality," so only one more season to go apparently.

 PM> Lucky!  It just doesn't come on at all over here anymore.  It stoped
 PM> airing  just as I was getting into it, too! :(

 FS> Do you, or anyone, know what the deal with series six is?  After "Back
 FS> To Reality," the end of series five, my local station started again
 FS> with the first episode, "The End."  Is it just that they haven't
 FS> purchased series six or is it not available in the U.S.?  Hmmm...

 No idea.  But I just found out that Red Dwarf is back on!  Of course, it
 does come on at some ungodly hour, but at least it's on again.

        Shadowcat
        pmoniz@erc.cat.syr.edu

... Oxymoron: Military Intelligence.

___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20 [NR]
--- GEcho 1.11+ The BEST
 * Origin: Dragon's Cave, South of Texas, NY. 315-963-3389 (1:260/388)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 257 of 584
 From : David Little                        1:106/7315      .îí 09 .åí 96 08:33
 To   : Todd Sullivan
 Subj : New Star Wars movies
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
-=< Todd Sullivan used the Jedi Mind Trick on me!>=-

 BF> Are the gona take the same actors or who's gona play into the episodes
 BF> ?
 BF> Maybe the original actors are a bit out of the age but they are almost
 BF> 'legendary', I'll suck when the use others...
 TS> According to the rumor mill, Mark Hamill will play Anakin Skywalker.
 TS> Supposedly, they're waiting for him to age into the part, or so the
 TS> word was.
 TS> Nothing else.

        No, there has been no announcement of actors except for Lucasfilm
said they DID approach Brannaugh to play Kenobi.

                                        -=The DoLittle 8-)=-


... STAR WARS FIDONET ECHO...Boba Gump Thermal Detonators...
--- Blue Wave/DOS v2.30 [NR]
 * Origin: The Wizards Realm BBS 1-713-946-7315 1:106/7315 (1:106/7315)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 258 of 584
 From : Frank Glover                        1:2613/477      .îí 09 .åí 96 23:33
 To   : Todd Sullivan
 Subj : Re: Sound Suppressors/Space Firearms
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

TS>  After all, in space, the slightest suit puncture is a severe problem.

   Which would seem to make shotguns (or their equivalent) the way to go....

   Frank


--- QuickBBS 2.85 (Beta-1) GoldBase
 * Origin: The Matrix Data Bank BBS, Rochester, Ny (1:2613/477)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 259 of 584
 From : Frank Glover                        1:2613/477      .îí 09 .åí 96 23:38
 To   : Bob Klahn
 Subj : Re: FAVOURITE TREK MOVIE
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

BK>   I'm still trying to figure out how they managed to get so many
BK>  incompetents
BK>   aboard the starships that they keep getting boarded and taken by
BK>  their
BK>   enemies.

   Yeah, for example, whatever happened to the neuro gas used in Space Seed? (No
doubt Khan disabled *that* system first, when he took the Reliant...)

   Frank


--- QuickBBS 2.85 (Beta-1) GoldBase
 * Origin: The Matrix Data Bank BBS, Rochester, Ny (1:2613/477)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 260 of 584
 From : Stephen Simmons                     1:275/160       .cê 08 .åí 96 09:34
 To   : Bobby Rissler
 Subj : Klingons
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE 1.11+
 ÕÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍµBobby Rissler wrote:

SS>     Are we really any different, as a species?  Actually, I
SS>     suspect that the rank-and-file Klingons more or less espouse
SS>     "The Code", just as the masses here more or less follow the
SS>     basic tenets of our society.  It's only the noteworthy
SS>     exceptions who draw the attention of the Federation, and only
SS>     the negative exceptions who draw the attention of Starfleet.
SS>     So, these are the only ones we hear about, just as the human
SS>     villains are the only ones you see on the news.

BR> Good point.  I never thought of that before.  I think all of the
BR> humanoid species in the trek universe have something in common with
BR> humans.  Its probably how Gene Roddenbury wanted it.  He always got his
BR> way you know.  At least thats what the other producers said.

    I can't see any reason to complain about Gene getting his
    own way.  After all, he's the one who brought us the show in
    the first place.

    Remember that the show DID premier during the late 60's, in
    the midst of a lot of cultural soul-searching and upheaval.
    TOS does occasionally dabble in political/social commentary.
    The analogous representations wouldn't work if the aliens
    were TOO alien.  There had to be enough "humanity" in the
    alien cultures for us to be able to comprehend them.

Blackjack - Have Pun, Will Travel
... "Control! Control! You must learn control!"   - Yoda

~~~ ReneWave v2.00 [NR]
--- Smile :)
 * Origin: * The Beast's Lair * (804)498-3070 * Va Beach VA * (1:275/160)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 261 of 584
 From : Phill Ash                           1:275/160       .cê 08 .åí 96 16:59
 To   : Mark Jones
 Subj : Klingons
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE 1.11+

 MJ> I'll second that.
 MJ> <Sigh>
 MJ> I fully expect the "real" Duras to be rescued, and to help stop the
 MJ> Klingons from going down the wrong path.  (After all, sweetness and
 MJ> light must ultimately prevail, no matter how contrived the ending.)

        A nicer touch would've been for the Kahless Doppelganger to be a
        Changling... but they made such a big deal about his
        'resurrection' <sigh>

 MJ> In the "real" universe, I'd expect the Klingons to kill the fake
 MJ> Duras, install a new Top Dog and keep right on empire building.  A lot

        Or, at least, render him neutral in some way, shape or form...

 MJ> of Klingons *like* the new, aggressive, expansionist policies--and the
 MJ> fact that a changling was partially (or totally) responsible wouldn't
 MJ> change that.

        Gowron, not Duras... (but we knew that <G>)


thanatos@infi.net
---
 þ Ôystertags v1.2 þ "There's just never quite enough."

~~~ ReneWave v2.00 [NR]
--- Smile :)
 * Origin: * The Beast's Lair * (804)498-3070 * Va Beach VA * (1:275/160)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 262 of 584
 From : Phill Ash                           1:275/160       .cê 08 .åí 96 16:59
 To   : Jeff Hancock
 Subj : Realistic space scen
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE 1.11+

 JH> Of course, if you take the approach of psychic powers being SF, then
 JH> you could conceivably justify it.  Properly utilized telekinesis can
 JH> explain away a *lot* of things.  Bits like the silly attack dances and
 JH> phrases are just mental crutches to help focus the power.  ;-)

        Prime Example:

        "Escape From Witch Mountain" (the original, not the made-for-TV
        trash)...

        Tia could utilize her powers without, but Tony used his
        harmonica-playing as a focus.


thanatos@infi.net
---
 þ Ôystertags v1.2 þ There's sky and sand where mountains used to be.

~~~ ReneWave v2.00 [NR]
--- Smile :)
 * Origin: * The Beast's Lair * (804)498-3070 * Va Beach VA * (1:275/160)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 263 of 584
 From : Phill Ash                           1:275/160       .îí 09 .åí 96 11:14
 To   : Frank Glover
 Subj : Klingons
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE 1.11+

 FG> I've heard that Voyager will at least finally leave the Kazon
 FG> sphere  of influence. That alone wouldbe a step up....

        "Here we are in the newest most bada$$ed Federation starship and
        we can't even outrun a race that's incapable of producing
        water."

        I'm just afraid of the alternative...


thanatos@infi.net
---
 þ Ôystertags v1.2 þ And the lovely lady in white was by my side

~~~ ReneWave v2.00 [NR]
--- Smile :)
 * Origin: * The Beast's Lair * (804)498-3070 * Va Beach VA * (1:275/160)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 264 of 584
 From : Phill Ash                           1:275/160       .îí 09 .åí 96 11:14
 To   : Owen E. Oulton
 Subj : Klingons
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE 1.11+

 PA>         Early memos about the depiction of Klingons used such terms as
 PA>         "...beat up their own mothers" and "...fart in airlocks".

 OEO> Nope.  Those quotes come from David Gerrold's description long after
 OEO> the fact, in The World Of Star Trek.

        Yep, yer right...
        I got that one confused with "The Making of Star Trek"... <sigh>


thanatos@infi.net
---
 þ Ôystertags v1.2 þ And the other guy turned and spilled three boys' blood...

~~~ ReneWave v2.00 [NR]
--- Smile :)
 * Origin: * The Beast's Lair * (804)498-3070 * Va Beach VA * (1:275/160)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 265 of 584
 From : Phill Ash                           1:275/160       .îí 09 .åí 96 11:14
 To   : David Johnston
 Subj : Klingons
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE 1.11+

 ->       Define "military organisation"...

 DJ> A military organisation is an armed and uniformed service which
 DJ> protects and/or expands the boundaries of a society.

 ->       I interpret that to mean "We are not a dictatorship"

 DJ> Canada has a military.  It is not a dictatorship.

        I didn't say that *having* a military indicates a dictatorship.

        I said that I interpret "We are a non-military organisation" as
        "We are not a dictatorship"... though, I cannot recall any Trek
        character referring to Starfleet as a 'non-military
        organisation'... The UFP, maybe, but Starfleet, no.

 ->       Nothing has been demonstrated to suggest otherwise (has it?)

 DJ> Vache, for example, had to swindle someone to get enough money
 DJ> to afford an interstellar passage.

        Vash had been in the Gamma Quadrant prior to that.  She returned
        to DS9 which, contrary to popular belief, does not offer shuttle
        services into the Heart of Federation Space.  The ships that
        layover at DEEP SPACE 9 are generally merchant vessels.  Vash
        could've waited for a FEDERATION ship to offer her free
        passage... she opted for the alternative.

 DJ> What if Bajor was allowed into the Federation?  Apparently the only
 DJ> things keeping it out are political instability and uncertainty about
 DJ> whether it wants in the first place.  But if they were allowed in, it
 DJ> seems unlikely that Bajor's poverty would magically disappear.

        We have seen very little poverty on Bajor.  The community that
        O'Brien played 'Storyteller' for didn't want for technology...
        rather they seemed keen to live without it.


thanatos@infi.net
... No weapon - I carry no sword, only my hands to protect me.
---
 * Ôystertags v1.2 *
~~~ ReneWave v2.00 [NR]
--- Smile :)
 * Origin: * The Beast's Lair * (804)498-3070 * Va Beach VA * (1:275/160)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 266 of 584
 From : Phill Ash                           1:275/160       .îí 09 .åí 96 11:14
 To   : James Dixon
 Subj : Timeline
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE 1.11+

 PA>        Where's the WebSite that's got the updated Chronology?  I had it
 PA>        bookmarked 2 versions of NetScape ago... <sigh>

 JD> I finally found the sense to put it into this little tagline file...
 JD> * OLXWin 1.00a * TREK9.ZIP @ http://www.sas.upenn.edu/~azion

        Got it!
        Thanks...


thanatos@infi.net
---
 þ Ôystertags v1.2 þ And their rigid arms and their evil signs

~~~ ReneWave v2.00 [NR]
--- Smile :)
 * Origin: * The Beast's Lair * (804)498-3070 * Va Beach VA * (1:275/160)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 267 of 584
 From : Henry Triplett                      1:106/564       .òp 10 .åí 96 09:49
 To   : JEFF HANCOCK
 Subj : Japanese SF
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 -=> Quoting Jeff Hancock to Henry Triplett <=-

 HT> JH> By the way, if that is Takeuchi on the end of one of my tapes,
 HT>Well, did she look anything like Setsuna?  Or was I way out of the

 JH> I can't quite bring the two images together in my mind at the same
 JH> time. Need more buffer RAM.  <g>  Um, maybe you should decide for
 JH> yourself? <hint ;>

Hint noted and logged, Sir! <g>

[Sammy kicking Luna]

 JH> There's a specific reason which is elaborated upon.  And I *think*
 JH> this was after the <bum bum da bum> NEGA-VERSE!!! was involved.  Um, I
 JH> mean the Dark Kingdom.  ;)

Ok, that sounds much better.  I'd hate to think that he'd do that in his
right mind.

 HT> JH> Well it's nice to see she CAN do something on her own once in a
 HT>You mean besides eat and whine?  <g>

 JH> Now now, she's a very sweet and caring person, she's just a little
 JH> simple-hearted and self-involved when others aren't in trouble.  <G>

I know!  I just couldn't resist that comment! <g>

 JH> That one with the wedding dress contest, she pulled that off without
 JH> any help from Tux either.  Rei and Ami, yes.  ;)

Yeah, she has a few moments like that.  Curiously enough though, sometimes
Tux comes to her rescue even after he's been corrupted by the Negaverse.
Go figure!

 JH> That reminds me of something... some parody, written or video, can't
 JH> remember.  Someone was wanting to make sure they were the main
 JH> character (when they weren't?) because "nothing permanently bad happens
 JH> to the main character".  He - or she - kept pushing into scenes trying
 JH> to grab all the attention so they wouldn't be killed off as a bit
 JH> player.  <g>

LOL!  He was lucky that it wasn't a JMS production.

 HT> JH> the Sailor Moon opening theme song (the FAQ says they kept the
 HT> JH>joke - does that mean they used the American version or the
 HT>The American version.

 JH> Ah, okay, that figures.  At least it was still funny.  ;)

Yes, it was. ;)

 HT>Maybe I'll get a chance to look now that I've finished the latest
 HT>part of Sailor Babylon.

 JH> <Mr. Bill mode: on>  OHHHHHHHHHH NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!

Heh, heh, heh!  <satisfied grin>

Henry

... Do what you will with this tagline, just don't bother me about it!
___ Blue Wave/386 v2.30 [NR]
--- GEcho 1.00
 * Origin: Eat Flaming Death    Houston Texas    713-447-1927 (1:106/564)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 268 of 584
 From : Glenn Shaheen                       1:3600/7        .pä 04 .åí 96 15:55
 To   : Chris Dixon
 Subj : New Star Wars Movies
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

CD>Has anyone heard anything about the new Star Wars Trilogy that's supposed
CD>to me in the making?

        Star Wars? What's that?
-=-
 * OLX 2.2 * "Star destroyer, shmar destroyer. I'm goin' in!"

--- SLMAIL v3.5C  (#1540)
 * Origin: Robotech  -=-Fansubbed anime available upon request-=- (1:3600/7)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 269 of 584
 From : Todd Sullivan                       1:202/720.3     .òp 10 .åí 96 15:16
 To   : Frank Glover
 Subj : Sound Suppressors/Space Firearms
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Reports from the Interior indicate that Frank Glover leaked the following to me,
re: Sound Suppressors/Space Firearms

 FG>
 TS>>  After all, in space, the slightest suit puncture is a severe problem.
 FG>
 FG>    Which would seem to make shotguns (or their equivalent) the way to
 FG> go....

That would be for mass actions, I'd say.

A good setup, IMO, would be a G-11 with a flechette round for an attached M-203.
Just be sure you're well-braced when you touch off that 40mm, though.

Todd Sullivan

... I hate four letter words--like cook, iron, wash, diet...

-*- ASTG 1.9

--- Spot 1.3a Unregistered
 * Origin: Todd's Spot in the Continuum (1:202/720.3)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 270 of 584
 From : Phill Ash                           1:275/160       .òp 10 .åí 96 09:05
 To   : Kay Shapero
 Subj : Star Trek Voyager
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE 1.11+

 PA>        I've heard rumors that imply they're ditching the "Lost
 PA>    in Space" motif...  I'll wait for more before I begin
 PA>    perpetuating them, though...

 KS> What Voyager needs to do is ditch is the mind-set that keeps missing
 KS> the  potential of it all.

        HERE HERE!!!

 KS> trade.  Information?  Artwork?  [And what IS artwork to something that
 KS> sees into the ultraviolet, is blind  to red, and evolved from a vaguely
 KS> canid carnivore?])

        Alien:  My, KimHarryKim, what a fascinating creation you have
                wrought for us!

        Harry:  Please don't touch me again, you're making me puke!


thanatos@infi.net
---
 þ Ôystertags v1.2 þ And the quicklime girl still plies her trade

~~~ ReneWave v2.00 [NR]
--- Smile :)
 * Origin: * The Beast's Lair * (804)498-3070 * Va Beach VA * (1:275/160)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 271 of 584
 From : Frank Glover                        1:2613/477      .òp 10 .åí 96 22:02
 To   : Phill Ash
 Subj : Re: Klingons
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

PA>   DJ> What if Bajor was allowed into the Federation?  Apparently the
PA>  only
PA>   DJ> things keeping it out are political instability and uncertainty
PA>  about
PA>   DJ> whether it wants in the first place.  But if they were allowed
PA>  in, it
PA>   DJ> seems unlikely that Bajor's poverty would magically disappear.
PA>
PA>          We have seen very little poverty on Bajor.  The community
PA>  that
PA>          O'Brien played 'Storyteller' for didn't want for
PA>  technology...
PA>          rather they seemed keen to live without it.

   Our first impression of Bajor came back in ST:TNG when Ensign Ro Laren was
introduced. That locality seemed rather impoverished, with the implication that
there were others.

   But this was also just after the Cardassian occupation ended. Things may have
been cleaned up by then, possibly with Federation `foreign aid.'

   Frank


--- QuickBBS 2.85 (Beta-1) GoldBase
 * Origin: The Matrix Data Bank BBS, Rochester, Ny (1:2613/477)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 272 of 584
 From : Bobby Rissler                       1:270/435       .îí 09 .åí 96 19:50
 To   : David Little
 Subj : New Star Wars movies
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 DL>         hehe...It's not "Shadows of the Empire",
 DL> that's the name of the newest
 DL> multimedia product, but the re-release of the trilogy
 DL> is named "Star Wars:
 DL> Special Edition". The new SW prequels have yet to be named.
 BR> This is going to be made after the special edition comes out.  It
 BR> is planned to be released in 1999.  It is going
 BR> to take place between
 BR> the The Empire Strikes Back and Return of the Jedi.  The prequels
 BR> won't be out for a while yet.

 DL>         Shadows will not be made into a movie. 1999 is
 DL> the release date for
 DL> the prequels.

  "Shadows of the Empire" is going to be released as a movie.  They had a
conversation between the producers (via satalite) and they were talking about
the movie "Shadows of the Empire."  It is based on the book, just as the new
multimedia software is.  The special edition is coming out soon, then "Shadows
of the Empire" is coming out, then come the prequels.  I know this because I was
at a convention were they had one of the producers talking about it.

----
Bobby Rissler
bobby.rissler%270-435@mdtnbbs.com


--- Maximus 3.01
 * Origin: The Good News BBS  Bowmansville, PA (1:270/435)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 273 of 584
 From : Bobby Rissler                       1:270/435       .îí 09 .åí 96 19:56
 To   : Marco Catalano
 Subj : Douglas Adams
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 BR>   I was wondering if anyone else has read any
 BR> books by Douglas Adams.  The
 BR> best know book that he has written is entitled
 MC> The Hitchhikers Guide to
 BR> the Galaxy. I thought this was a really good
 BR> book.  There are many other
 BR> books in the series that were also good.

 MC> Like "Goodbye and thanks for the fish" ??


  Yeah, that was a really good book.  The fourth in the trilogy I believe.  Did
you ever play the computer game by Infocom?  It was really cool.


--- Maximus 3.01
 * Origin: The Good News BBS  Bowmansville, PA (1:270/435)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 274 of 584
 From : Bob Klahn                           1:234/2         .òp 10 .åí 96 23:00
 To   : Lis Carey
 Subj : BY FORCE OF ARMS
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
BK>> BC>                                         -- Woodrow Wilson Smith
 LC>
BK>> I was sure it was RAH, got the wrong character, though.
 LC>
 LC> No, you didn't, not really. Woodrow Wilson Smith was the name that
 LC> character was born with, and "Lazarus Long" was a name he used a great
 LC> deal of the time, later on in a very, very, long life.

 Somebody else pointed that out. As I have said, it was a long time ago. My
 brother would probably have gotten it right, he is a Heinlein freak. He once
 told me he had several copies of one novel. I asked if he wanted to trade,
 and he told me, " I don't give up Heinleins."

 When I asked what he could do with three copies he pointed out that when one
 wore out there would be another waiting for him.

 Me, once is generally enough. OK, more for the older ones.

BOB KLAHN   bob.klahn@toltbbs.com

... The Management reserves the right to serve refuse to anyone.
 * Silver Xpress V4.3P RB10275

--- FLAME v1.1
 * Origin: Telnet toltbbs.com or call 313-854-6001, Boardwatch #55 (1:234/2)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 275 of 584
 From : Brandon Wolgast                     1:363/281       .cê 08 .åí 96 17:41
 To   : Dave Ewen
 Subj : B-5
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE/32 1.2

DE>It occured to me that I have yet to see any scenes on B-5 that match
DE>what I had assumed was the central premise of the program:

DE>Who here can explain how this 'U.N. building in space' conducts the
DE>business that is its central purpose? Of the few episodes I have seen
DE>none of them seemed in any way related to such a ongoing purpose.

They talk about that greatly, if you would watch the show you would
know. They get (or got, they did break away) funded by Earth Force and
all the other big governments that helped build the station, the
Minbari, Narn, Centauri and Vorlons.  Watch the openings for the premier
episode, season 1 and 2 and it is explained even in that.  It's a lot
more realistic than DS9, the "other" station show.

DE>What happened to B-1, B-2, B-3, and B-4?  And who would ever believe
DE>that the same project name would continue to be used after all these
DE>failures?

Babylon's 1-3 were sabatoged and destroyed shortly after construction
began.  Babylon 4 is a lot more complicated of a story, wtach the
episodes, "Babylon Squared," and "War Without End, parts 1 and 2" and it
is explained there.  As for why would they keep building them? We do the
same thing on Earth now-a-days.  We keep building stuff even if it
fails, and Earth WAS going to stop after B4 but then the other
governments pitched in to help.

DE>I've been catching an occasional episode and never seeing anything I
DE>thought was all that good. Now finally I've seen a few episodes I liked.
DE>How rare are good episodes?

Again, to compare to DS9 (don't worry, I myself watch both of them, but
I do compare them) the saying is, "A bad episode of Babylon 5 is better
than any episode of Deep Space 9."  But I believe all episodes of B5 are
great, some are the BEST of the bunch but the yare all good and
contribute to the overall story.  "The Coming of Shadows" just recently
won the Hugo for best dramatic presintation, beating out 12 Monkey's
Apollo 13, an episode of DS9, "The Visitor," and one other I believe.

Brandon

***
 * OLX 2.1 * "Only Imperial Stormtroopers are so precise." - Obi-Wan

---
 * Origin: Compudyne Microsystems, Inc. * Data/Fax (407)381-2798 * (1:363/281)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 276 of 584
 From : Kay Shapero                         1:102/524       .òp 10 .åí 96 08:46
 To   : Owen E. Oulton
 Subj : Re: SOUND SUPRESSORS
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Sep 09 02:10>, Owen E. Oulton (1:243/45) wrote to Dave Ewen:

 DE> What is vacuum welding?

 OE>Metal surfaces which are in contact in a hard vacuum over a
 OE>period of time tend to bond together.  This bond is called a
 OE>"vacuum weld."  One of the more technically or scientifically
 OE>trained people here can likely give you more detail.

Murphy's Law of Adhesion: Things cling together in inverse proportion to how
badly you want them apart.

--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 277 of 584
 From : Kay Shapero                         1:102/524       .òp 10 .åí 96 08:41
 To   : Bob Klahn
 Subj : FAVOURITE TREK MOVIE
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Sep 08 22:34>, Bob Klahn (1:234/2) wrote to James Dixon:

 BK> I was impressed when they destroyed the first Enterprise, I
 BK>figured that showed guts. The last time, Generations, I got to
 BK>wondering why. But I
 BK> wondered that about most of the movie anyway.

A friend of mine who went to see ST:Generations took one look at the "saucer
crashes" scene and cried out "They're chanelling Ed Wood!"

{in re recent Voyager season premier}

 BK> I'm still trying to figure out how they managed to get so many
 BK>incompetents aboard the starships that they keep getting boarded and
 BK>taken by their enemies.

And I want to know why the holoDoc didn't just get his one ally into a pressure
suit, and then flood the air system with nitrogen for about 30 minutes.  Or, if
he really didn't want to kill the Kazons, flood it with some sort of knockout
gas, offload the lot on the planet where they left the crew, then collect the
crew and depart.

--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 278 of 584
 From : Kay Shapero                         1:102/524       .òp 10 .åí 96 08:46
 To   : Owen E. Oulton
 Subj : Re: Klingons
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Sep 09 02:08>, Owen E. Oulton (1:243/45) wrote to Kay Shapero:

 KS> way they came into existance.  Fits very well with the
 KS> character of the first Klingons when you think about
 KS> it.  :->  I liked Kor; that business with him and Kirk
 KS> at the end of "Errand of Mercy" was a hoot.

 OE>I still like Kor...  Seeing the Three Klingeteers (Kor, Koloth
 OE>and Kang) together again for the first time in Blood Oath was a
 OE>real treat.

Missed that one - I'll have to read it.  Was Mara around too?

--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 279 of 584
 From : Ken Mayes                           1:393/7         .pä 11 .åí 96 07:40
 To   : Frank Glover
 Subj : Re: klingons
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On Tue 10-Sep-1996 10:02p, Frank Glover said to Phill Ash:

FG>    Our first impression of Bajor came back in ST:TNG when Ensign Ro  Laren
FG> was introduced. That locality seemed rather impoverished, with  the
FG> implication that there were others.
FG>
FG>    But this was also just after the Cardassian occupation ended. Things
FG> may have been cleaned up by then, possibly with Federation `foreign  aid.'
FG>
FG>    Frank


        That was not Bajor in that episode. It was a small enclave of Bajoran
refugees making camp on another planet entirely. The Cardasian occupation was
still underway on Bajor at that time.




--- CNet/3
 * Origin: The Bard's Tavern Denton, TX (817)243-5110 USR 28.8   (1:393/7)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 280 of 584
 From : David Johnston                      1:342/14        .cê 08 .åí 96 01:16
 To   : Dave Ewen
 Subj : B-5
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
-> It occured to me that I have yet to see any scenes on B-5 that match
-> what I had assumed was the central premise of the program:
->
-> Who here can explain how this 'U.N. building in space' conducts the
-> business that is its central purpose? Of the few episodes I have seen
-> none of them seemed in any way related to such a ongoing purpose.

That's because the purpose in question is already a failure.  They used
to have regular meetings, which were distinctive for their complete
failure to accomplish anything (much like the U.N.).  Occasionally one
or two representatives would get together and actually come to some kind
of agreement.  Now, it's primarily a center for a conspiratorial effort
to organise against the insidious forces of darkness.

-> What happened to B-1, B-2, B-3, and B-4?  And who would ever believe
-> that the same project name would continue to be used after all these
-> failures?

The first three were destroyed by servants of the Enemy.  The fourth
"mysteriously vanished" because it was moved through time to be used for
someone's purpose against the Enemy.  They kept trying because the
Minbari and the Vorlons, the two most powerful known races, insisted,
and because Earth would gain tremendous prestige and wealth from getting
it to work.  (The wealth comes because B-5 is also a trans-shipment
point at a particularly strategic neutral location.)

--- PCBoard (R) v15.21/100
 * Origin: Freddy's Place - Edm. AB - 33.6K (403) 413-3460 (1:342/14)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 281 of 584
 From : Demian Katz                         1:2626/102      .îí 09 .åí 96 11:14
 To   : Scott Scheibe
 Subj : Re: Homeboys in Outer Space
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
> I generally like any thing with a SF theme but this wasn't even
> bad SF, just another extremely stupid Sitcom set in outer space.

I saw a bit of it while changing channels.  Not only is it tasteless
and unfunny, it has a budget of about three dollars.

--- DB 1.58/005132
 * Origin: Castrovalva BBS  610-917-0380 (1:2626/102)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 282 of 584
 From : Michel Fortin                       1:167/150       .îí 09 .åí 96 21:28
 To   : Patrick Duda
 Subj : SF in general
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
     *      De: Patrick Duda                A: Michel Fortin       *
     *   Sujet: Independence Day         Date: 2 Sep 96, 4:35 PM   *
     * Section: [FIDO]-SCI.FI & FANDOM                             *

     Patrick,

PD>  That needs to be done. A computer-parody alien-invader thing. Not in
PD> writing, those gags only work on the screen. Heh heh, that's be good.

     A little humour would be better than the 'serious' stuff we have been
getting in the past years. I think movies, specially american action
movies, are a little too commercial in most cases. You know how things are
going to unfold in the next 2 hours by the first 5 minutes (if not before).
A little drama here, a little car chase there, a little love scene here,...
The recipe is well know. I think there is more innovation, more
experimentation, done in TV now.

     By the way; what movies or what TV series have you prefered over the
years? Is there something you really felt satisfied with?

     For my part I can't say I had many. There's a few that comes to my
mind: Predator, Alien/Aliens, Terminator 1/2, as far as SF goes. B5, in
terms of TV series. Some of the episodes in ST/STNG. Not much more.

     I did enjoyed, though, some more 'traditional' movies like: Spartacus
(and about anything K.Douglas is in), Crimson Tide (and about anything
G.Hackman is in), Pulp Fiction and a few others... But I never felt any SF
movies reach the heights of any of the 'classics', if you know what I mean.

     Anyway... give me your opinion on the subject and tell me a little
about yourself and what you like.

                                   Michel

---  Xenolink 1.981,  XQwk 1.6  [REG 10068]
 * Origin: Le Club Amiga Rive-Sud(CARS), Montreal,PQ(514)335-4076 (1:167/150)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 283 of 584
 From : Justin Mohareb                      1:249/127       .pä 11 .åí 96 15:54
 To   : Todd Sullivan
 Subj : New Star Wars movies
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 -=> Quoting Todd Sullivan to Bert Faes <=-

 TS> According to the rumor mill, Mark Hamill will play Anakin
 TS> Skywalker. Supposedly, they're waiting for him to age into
 TS> the part, or so the word was.

Doubtful.  Makeup can do a few years no problem. Any more than that, all
the fans will be dead of old age. *:)

Besides, have you SEEN Mark Hamill lately?  He looks about 90 or so.

Years haven't been kind.

JJ Mohareb

... Don't hit me, Mr. Moderator... I'll go back on topic... I swear!
___ Blue Wave/386 v2.30 [NR]

--- Maximus 2.01wb
 * Origin: *Synthesis*  Kingston, Ont., Canada! (1:249/127)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 284 of 584
 From : Justin Mohareb                      1:249/127       .pä 11 .åí 96 15:55
 To   : Jeff Foy
 Subj : Kindred;The Embraced
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 -=> Quoting Jeff Foy to Jared Callanan <=-

 JC> ANyone like the show Kindred:The Embraced???

 JF> Yes, indeed! It became a favorite even though it was only a limited
 JF> run.

It was an interested experiment, although pretty much anyone will tell you
it was a failure.

JJ Mohareb


... SYSOP (sihs-ahp)n.:  The person laughing at your typing.
___ Blue Wave/386 v2.30 [NR]

--- Maximus 2.01wb
 * Origin: *Synthesis*  Kingston, Ont., Canada! (1:249/127)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 285 of 584
 From : Leman Russ                          1:2250/7        .îí 09 .åí 96 16:54
 To   : All
 Subj : Mospeada
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 So we got some robotech otaku here, eh? Well, I picked up a piece of trivia on
the Anime echo that robotechies might like.

 Remember the third series, called mospeada? How many people, like me, had no
idea what the hell mospeada meant? Well, someone on the anime net told me it was
an acronym for the following:

Military
Operations
Soldier
Protection
Emergency
Avian
Drive Armor.

 Thought robotechies might be interested, it was the term used to describe the
cyclones.

>:[

--- DLG Pro v1.0/DLGMail
 * Origin: Sage's Tower - Amiga - (618) 259-1844 (1:2250/7)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 286 of 584
 From : Leman Russ                          1:2250/7        .òp 10 .åí 96 04:27
 To   : Todd Sullivan
 Subj : Re: Sound Suppressors/Space Firearms
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
  TS> I doubt it.  Gyros are more expensive than those Glasers you
 TS> mentioned.  It seems to me that they'd be more likely to go with the
 TS> H/K G-11 concept of a fairly massy weapon with lighter bullets.

 TS> After all, in space, the slightest suit puncture is a severe
 TS> problem.

 True, but gyrojets might still have advantages in vacc. Also, in vacc and
microgravity they could armor spacesuits since weight would be less ofan issue.

 I also wonder about self-sealing suits...

>;[

--- DLG Pro v1.0/DLGMail
 * Origin: Sage's Tower - Amiga - (618) 259-1844 (1:2250/7)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 287 of 584
 From : Ken Mayes                           1:393/7         .pä 11 .åí 96 17:54
 To   : Demian Katz
 Subj : Re: Homeboys in Outer Space
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On Mon  9-Sep-1996 11:14a, Demian Katz said to Scott Scheibe:

DK> I saw a bit of it while changing channels.  Not only is it tasteless
DK> and unfunny, it has a budget of about three dollars.

        Really? Three dollars?

        Then what are they doing with the other dollar and a half? It shure
wazn't on screen.



--- CNet/3
 * Origin: The Bard's Tavern Denton, TX (817)243-5110 USR 28.8   (1:393/7)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 288 of 584
 From : pierre amadio                       2:320/405.6     .cê 08 .åí 96 13:37
 To   : Glenn Shaheen
 Subj : Douglas Adams
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Lundi 02 Septembre 1996 13:53,
Glenn Shaheen Âcrivait Å Bobby Rissler :



GS>         I've read all 5 of the Hitchhikers trilogy. Some of the best
GS> comedy I've ever read. The tv series was pretty good, also. I haven't
GS> been able to find a copy of the radio series anywhere, though. I've
GS> heard it's great.

Hi.

I have been looking a long time at the CD recording of the radio show before i
actually get them. I first wrote to the BBC shop service in england, but they
didn't sell stuff to stranger country. May be they do it know, try a mail or an
e-mail message (if they have one, but  I guess they have).

If you know someone that goes in england, ask him to go to the BBS and buy to
you the CD. That's how i get it. There is 6 hours of fun waiting for you.

I really enjoy the show, much more than the book, and than the only TV-show i
saw about the hhgttg. But i saw this in french, and the voice were absolutly
awfull.

Share & enjoy !

Pierre.

--- GEcho 1.00
 * Origin: Le Viking BBS - Morangis (Essonne) - +1 69.34.82.35 - (2:320/405.6)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 289 of 584
 From : Stephen Walker                      1:382/92.7      .pä 11 .åí 96 16:14
 To   : All
 Subj : Bibi Besch Passes On
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
========================================================================
 Copied from U_R3G_STINFO by Gary Warren (1:382/92.7)
========================================================================
From: Stephen Walker <swalker@starland.com>


I was asked to pass this along...

Bibi Besch (Dr. Carol Marcus in Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan,
1982) passed away on Saturday, September 7, 1996, after an extended
battle with cancer.  She is survived by her daughter, actress
Samantha Mathis.

Bibi Besch was somebody with whom I once worked and a person that I
always considered a friend.  She was giving of herself -- always
generous and genuine (a rare trait in Hollywood!).  She loved her
fans and was dearly devoted to her daughter and her career.  Most
people would recognize Bibi even if they didn't know her from Star
Trek.  She had a most versatile career in stage, television and
motion pictures.  As an Emmy-nominated character actor she was
prolific.  Bibi has appeared in hundreds of TV episodes over the
past 20 years, ranging from soap operas to dramas and sitcoms and
made-for-TV movies.  Most recently she had a recurring role on the
"Jeff Foxworthy Show."  After " Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan"
where she played Dr. Carol Marcus, she worked again with Director
Nicholas Meyer on a TV movie about nuclear holocaust, "The Day After,"
which became the most-viewed TV movie in history.  She followed that
with her Emmy-nominated role in "Doing Time on Maple Drive," a story
about a mother dealing with a gay son.  Bibi was always involved in
community activities -- whether raising money for the fight against
AIDS, programs to save the enviroment or other causes, but one
one of her greatest passions was theatre, and she worked tirelessly
to help raise money for local theatre groups in Los Angeles.  It
was the Los Angeles theatre community which also allowed Bibi to
explore her talents as a director.

Bibi Besch was a generous sole who gave greatly of herself -- from
the heart -- and she will be greatly missed.  As one of her biggest
fans, I can say that she was loved very dearly.   A memorial service
is being planned for the week of September 16th.  For more information,
please call (310) 399-6895.

--Eric A. Stillwell

--
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Selected by Jim "The Big Dweeb" Griffith.                Email submissions to
trek-info@xcf.berkeley.edu, questions to trek-info-request@xcf.berkeley.edu

---
 + Origin: Austin InfoMail Association <--> Internet Gateway (1:382/87.0)

--- PPoint 1.90
 * Origin: Gary's Bar and Grill (1:382/92.7)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 290 of 584
 From : Justin Mohareb                      1:249/127       .pä 11 .åí 96 22:03
 To   : David Little
 Subj : New Star Wars movies
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 -=> Quoting David Little to Todd Sullivan <=-

 DL> -=< Todd Sullivan used the Jedi Mind Trick on me!>=-

 TS> According to the rumor mill, Mark Hamill will play Anakin Skywalker.
 TS> Supposedly, they're waiting for him to age into the part, or so the
 TS> word was.
 TS> Nothing else.

 DL> No, there has been no announcement of actors except for
 DL> Lucasfilm said they DID approach Brannaugh to play Kenobi.

Sorry, Dave. ;)

Ken Branagh was rumoured to be under consideration, but when approached, he
responeded that no one had actually ASKED him.

Shame, tho. He'd probably do a good job.

JJ Mohareb



... I know a good tagline when I steal one.
___ Blue Wave/386 v2.30 [NR]

--- Maximus 2.01wb
 * Origin: *Synthesis*  Kingston, Ont., Canada! (1:249/127)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 291 of 584
 From : Scott Royall                        1:106/357       .pä 11 .åí 96 20:07
 To   : Kay Shapero
 Subj : FAVOURITE TREK MOVIE
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Kay,

Tuesday September 10 1996 08:41, Kay Shapero wrote to Bob Klahn:

 KS> And I want to know why the holoDoc didn't just get his one ally into a
 KS> pressure suit, and then flood the air system with nitrogen for about 30
 KS> minutes.  Or, if he really didn't want to kill the Kazons, flood it with
 KS> some sort of knockout gas, offload the lot on the planet where they left
 KS> the crew, then collect the crew and depart.

Hell woman, cut to the chase. :)

"Computer, open space-cocks and shutdown immediately."

Of course, Starfleet would MEVER do that.  <GAG>

What I don't get is is the holoDoc's programming truly comfined to that single
computer in sickbay?  Has redundancy been abandoned?

Scott

scott@conchbbs.com
royall@shellus.com
FAX: 713-556-5464

--- GoldED/2 2.50+
 * Origin:  (1:106/357)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 292 of 584
 From : Jeff Hancock                        1:106/564       .òp 10 .åí 96 22:07
 To   : HENRY TRIPLETT
 Subj : Sailor Moon
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
(well, it was about time)

HT> JH>  Um, maybe you should decide for yourself? <hint ;>
HT>Hint noted and logged, Sir! <g>

Of course, I COULD always tag it on the end of another tape...  Dunno
how long it is, though.

HT>[Sammy kicking Luna]
HT> JH> mean the Dark Kingdom.  ;)
HT>Ok, that sounds much better.  I'd hate to think that he'd do that in
HT>his right mind.

I'm not sure now that I think back on it again.  It might have been
before.  He does have an excuse, whether or not it's justified is
another matter.

HT> JH> Now now, she's a very sweet and caring person, she's just a
HT>I know!  I just couldn't resist that comment! <g>

Sure you couldn't.  But then you would probably know better than me.  ;)

At least you're not living with C-ko!

HT>sometimes Tux comes to her rescue even after he's been corrupted by
HT>the Negaverse. Go figure!

That's because he's not completely corrupted.  You know, maybe that's
why "Darien" always picked on her... I mean, being Tux practically
FORCES him to come to her rescue, whether he likes it or not; and even
when he'd forgotten who he was some part of his psyche broke off and
manifested itself as that Moonlight Knight character (whom I know
virtually nothing of but the name).  I think I'd be a little ticked off
too, even if one would have wanted to save her anyway.

HT> JH> That reminds me of something... some parody, written or video,
HT> JH>into scenes trying to grab all the attention so they wouldn't be
HT> JH>killed off as a bit player.  <g>
HT>LOL!  He was lucky that it wasn't a JMS production.

I wish I knew what in the heck it was.  Probably some bit of
fan-material, but there are self-referential parodies in the commercial
market, so...  I'll bet it was written, beyond that I can't recall.

HT> HT> JH> the Sailor Moon opening theme song (the FAQ says they kept
HT> JH> Ah, okay, that figures.  At least it was still funny.  ;)
HT>Yes, it was. ;)

I had to rewind the tape and get the laughs out for a while when I first
saw that.

HT> HT>part of Sailor Babylon.
HT> JH> <Mr. Bill mode: on>  OHHHHHHHHHH NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!
HT>Heh, heh, heh!  <satisfied grin>

To quote JMS: "I hate you.  I really, really hate you."

--- GEcho 1.00
 * OLX 2.2 * I slept like a baby...woke up screaming every 15 minutes.
 * Origin: Eat Flaming Death    Houston Texas    713-447-1927 (1:106/564)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 293 of 584
 From : Jeff Hancock                        1:106/564       .òp 10 .åí 96 22:15
 To   : PHILL ASH
 Subj : Realistic space scen
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

PA> JH> explain away a *lot* of things.  Bits like the silly attack
PA> JH>dances and phrases are just mental crutches to help focus the
PA>        Prime Example:

I don't know if...

PA>        "Escape From Witch Mountain" (the original, not the

This qualifies, exactly...  ;)  (and I did read the original, a
loooooong time ago)

But...

PA>        Tia could utilize her powers without, but Tony used his
PA>harmonica-playing as a focus.

That's about what I meant.

Another, not quite so good but more skiffy example would be Niven's Gil
the Arm.  His crutch was in visualizing and treating his telekinesis as
his arm and hand, after he lost his original, with most of the
limitations thereof.

Using words to focus the power usually turns up in magic, not SF...  and
it would be hard to justify Sailor Moon as SF by any means, but given
extensive psi-powers one could give it a shot.  ^_^  ("No, wait, it's
really nanotechnology!" <G>)
--- GEcho 1.00
 * OLX 2.2 * Okay! - Okay! - I'll be off the phone in a minute!  Geez!
 * Origin: Eat Flaming Death    Houston Texas    713-447-1927 (1:106/564)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 294 of 584
 From : Henry Triplett                      1:106/564       .pä 11 .åí 96 15:15
 To   : JEFF HANCOCK
 Subj : Sailor Moon
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 -=> Quoting Jeff Hancock to Henry Triplett <=-

[Video short w/Mme. Takeuchi]

 JH> Of course, I COULD always tag it on the end of another tape...  Dunno
 JH> how long it is, though.

Sounds like a plan.  I'll probably get in an order later this month or early
next month.

 HT> JH> Now now, she's a very sweet and caring person, she's just a
 HT>I know!  I just couldn't resist that comment! <g>

 JH> Sure you couldn't.  But then you would probably know better than me.
 JH> ;)
 JH> At least you're not living with C-ko!

I'm afraid that I haven't met that lady. :)  (BTW, were we talking about
Serena above?)

 HT>sometimes Tux comes to her rescue even after he's been corrupted by
 HT>the Negaverse. Go figure!

 JH> That's because he's not completely corrupted.  You know, maybe that's
 JH> why "Darien" always picked on her... I mean, being Tux practically
 JH> FORCES him to come to her rescue, whether he likes it or not; and even
 JH> when he'd forgotten who he was some part of his psyche broke off and
 JH> manifested itself as that Moonlight Knight character (whom I know
 JH> virtually nothing of but the name).

IIRC, he shows up in episodes shortly after Sailor Moon wastes Queen Beryl.
Looks like a "Lawrence of Arabia" type in white robes with a mask covering
the lower part of his face.  He's armed with white roses and a sword.

 JH> I think I'd be a little ticked
 JH> off too, even if one would have wanted to save her anyway.

Yeah!  He starts acting like it too late in the DIC episodes.  I assume it's
caused by Negaverse action, but the dubs stop before we find out.  Raye also
gives Serena some business about 'why shouldn't he have his own life?' Don't
know if this leads to anything either.

 HT> HT>part of Sailor Babylon.
 HT> JH> <Mr. Bill mode: on>  OHHHHHHHHHH NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!
 HT>Heh, heh, heh!  <satisfied grin>

 JH> To quote JMS: "I hate you.  I really, really hate you."

On behalf of the moon...I shall thank you! <evil grin>

Henry

... "Please don't thump the Book of G'Quan.  Its disrespectful." - G'Kar
___ Blue Wave/386 v2.30 [NR]
--- GEcho 1.00
 * Origin: Eat Flaming Death    Houston Texas    713-447-1927 (1:106/564)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 295 of 584
 From : Bobby Rissler                       1:270/435       .òp 10 .åí 96 19:01
 To   : Todd Sullivan
 Subj : Favourite Trek movie of a
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 TS> Reports from the Interior indicate that Bobby Rissler
 TS> leaked the following to Frank Glover, re: Favourite
 TS> Trek movie of a

 FG>>    The silicon-based Horta? The artificial
 FG>> intelligences of Nomad and V'ger?
 FG>>
 BR>   I'll agree with V'ger but what is the artifical intelligence of
 BR> Nomad.  What episode is that.  I have not got all
 BR> of the episodes in my
 BR> collection yet.

 TS> The episode in question is "The Changeling", based on
 TS> an old Eurpoean legend.


  I haven't seen that episode yet.  I've subscribed to the video collection
though, so I should recieve it sometime in the next few years.


--- Maximus 3.01
 * Origin: The Good News BBS  Bowmansville, PA (1:270/435)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 296 of 584
 From : Bobby Rissler                       1:270/435       .òp 10 .åí 96 19:03
 To   : Todd Sullivan
 Subj : Trek movies
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

TS>> They're not up to TOS standards, unless the writing
 TS>> improves and the Politically Correct BS goes in the
 TS>> dumpster where it belongs.

 BR>   I know what you mean.  Voyager deals a lot more with emotion and
 BR> conflict and less with action and adventure.  Like that episode with
 BR> tuvix.  It had more emotion then was neccesary.

 TS> After seeing the season opener, I find myself
 TS> cautiously optimistic.  Now if they could do that with
 TS> DS9, I'd be happier.

 TS> F/X are nice, but frosting is useless without the
 TS> cake, if you get my meaning.

   I agree 100%.  Voyager and DS9 could be a little more like the original
series or The Next Generation.  They take place in the same time period but they
are so different.

--- Maximus 3.01
 * Origin: The Good News BBS  Bowmansville, PA (1:270/435)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 297 of 584
 From : Bob Klahn                           1:234/2         .pä 11 .åí 96 23:20
 To   : Frank Glover
 Subj : FAVOURITE TREK MOVIE
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
BK>>   I'm still trying to figure out how they managed to get so many
BK>>  incompetents
BK>>   aboard the starships that they keep getting boarded and taken by
BK>>  their
BK>>   enemies.
 FG>
 FG>    Yeah, for example, whatever happened to the neuro gas used in Space
 FG>    Seed? (No doubt Khan disabled *that* system first, when he took the
 FG>    Reliant...)

 Whatever happened to paying attention to what is going on around you and
 fighting back when attacked?

BOB KLAHN   bob.klahn@toltbbs.com

... Certe, Toto, sentio nos in Kansate non iam adesse.
 * Silver Xpress V4.3P RB10275

--- FLAME v1.1
 * Origin: Telnet toltbbs.com or call 313-854-6001, Boardwatch #55 (1:234/2)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 298 of 584
 From : David Little                        1:106/7315      .pä 11 .åí 96 08:59
 To   : Bobby Rissler
 Subj : New Star Wars movies
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
-=< Bobby Rissler used the Jedi Mind Trick on me!>=-

 BR> "Shadows of the Empire" is going to be released as a movie.  They
 BR> had a conversation between the producers (via satalite) and they were
 BR> talking about the movie "Shadows of the Empire."  It is based on the
 BR> book, just as the new multimedia software is.  The special edition is
 BR> coming out soon, then "Shadows of the Empire" is coming out, then come
 BR> the prequels.  I know this because I was at a convention were they had
 BR> one of the producers talking about it.

        I *SEVERLY* doubt it. Why don't you try talking directly to Steve
Perry or Steven Sansweet. You might also try reading "The Making of SOTE" and
it will confirm that they will not make it into a movie.

                                        -=The DoLittle 8-)=-


... STAR WARS FIDONET ECHO...MY Schwartz is as big as yours!
--- Blue Wave/DOS v2.30 [NR]
 * Origin: The Wizards Realm BBS 1-713-946-7315 1:106/7315 (1:106/7315)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 299 of 584
 From : David Little                        1:106/7315      .pä 11 .åí 96 09:38
 To   : Glenn Shaheen
 Subj : New Star Wars Movies
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
-=< Glenn Shaheen used the Jedi Mind Trick on me!>=-

 CD>Has anyone heard anything about the new Star Wars Trilogy that's supposed
 CD>to me in the making?
 GS> Star Wars? What's that?

        You are kidding, right?

                                        -=The DoLittle 8-)=-


... HARDWARE WARS FIDONET ECHO...
--- Blue Wave/DOS v2.30 [NR]
 * Origin: The Wizards Realm BBS 1-713-946-7315 1:106/7315 (1:106/7315)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 300 of 584
 From : Mark Jones                          1:105/302.47    .pä 04 .åí 96 23:01
 To   : James Dixon
 Subj : V
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On (02 Sep 96) James Dixon wrote to Frank Swarbrick...

 JD> It was a cop show with runaround episodes, mostly... And fell
 JD> apart with such things as the Newcomers' acidic reaction to salt
 JD> (well, what's all this about the aliens dating and having sex
 JD> with Humans all the time, eh? Human saliva and semen would Kill
 JD> them!)...

   Been there, done that.  I seem to recall posting a rant on this
very topic not long ago....


--- PPoint 1.78
 * Origin: Folcroft Sanitarium (hsmith@cure.com) (1:105/302.47)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 301 of 584
 From : Josh Hill                           1:388/9         .pä 11 .åí 96 21:56
 To   : David Johnston
 Subj : Independence Day (bel
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
In fact I go to Junior High, seventh grade. I write in my spare time
and have finished a full novel (actually it is in the final draft). It
is nice this time of year but wierd. The weather keeps changing.

--- TriToss (tm) Professional 10.0 - #184
 * Origin: By Appointment Only, 817-756-1032, Waco TX (1:388/9.0)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 302 of 584
 From : Owen E. Oulton                      1:243/45        .pä 11 .åí 96 21:38
 To   : Kay Shapero
 Subj : Re: Klingons
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 KS> it.  :->  I liked Kor; that business with him and Kirk
 KS> at the end of "Errand of Mercy" was a hoot.

 OE>I still like Kor...  Seeing the Three Klingeteers (Kor, Koloth
 OE>and Kang) together again for the first time in Blood Oath was a
 OE>real treat.

 KS> Missed that one - I'll have to read it.  Was Mara around too?

Read it?  How do you read a TV episode - closed captioning?  <G>

Blood Oath was the DS9 episode where it was revealed that Curzon Dax had been
negotiating with the Klingons on behalf of the Federation just prior to
STVI:TUC, and had become close friends with the Three Klingeteers.  Some time
after this, the three incurred the displeasure of a disreputable type known as
the Albino, who killed Kang's son (Mara's fate is unknown - she could still be
alive for all we know).  Dax, the child's godfather, swears a blood oath with
the three to kill the Albino.  Several decades later, Kang has tracked the
Albino down, and the three show up at DS9 only to find Dax with a new body...

CFN, O

--- Maximus 2.01wb
 * Origin: Pandora's Box, Ottawa, Ont. 613-829-1209 (1:243/45)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 303 of 584
 From : Stephen Simmons                     1:275/160       .òp 10 .åí 96 21:42
 To   : Bobby Rissler
 Subj : Re: Klingons
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE 1.11+
 ÕÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍÍµBobby Rissler wrote:

LR>   Personally I'd say the klingons have DEVOLVED from
LR> TOS. In TOS they could at times behave in a
LR> respectable fashion.
LR>   Witness "Day of the dove" in which Kang angerily
LR> roars "Were the screams of my crew imaginary?" This
LR> showed that as a captain he cared about his people,
LR> and was deeply hurt to have them butchered under his
LR> command. Kind of like a good human captain would be expected to feel.
LR>   Also, when it was pointed out that he was being used,
LR> he threw down his sword, saying "Only a fool fights in
LR> a burning house". Compassion for his crew, and wisdom.
LR> Not a bad man, after all.
LR>   Aside from Worf, TNG klingons seem to be a step down from
LR> TOS klingons

BR>The klingons in the original series might have more moral standards
BR>and such but they were more treacherous and cunning.

    More cunning?  Yes, certainly, and a compliment to TOS
    Klingons.  More treacherous?  Not so sure, depends on the
    connotations you intend with that word.  They were always
    very slippery in their dealings with the Federation, but I
    don't recall any glaring examples of outright treachery.
    Certainly TOS Klingons displayed LESS treasonous in-fighting
    among themselves than TNG, though.  They always seemed to
    present a very solid and united front, unlike the Duras vs.
    Worf or Duras & Company vs. Gowron plots, or the ST VI
    conspiracy.


Blackjack - Have Pun, Will Travel
... You call a full spread of photon torpedoes a WARNING?

~~~ ReneWave v2.00 [NR]
--- Smile :)
 * Origin: * The Beast's Lair * (804)498-3070 * Va Beach VA * (1:275/160)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 304 of 584
 From : Frank Glover                        1:2613/477      .pä 11 .åí 96 23:29
 To   : Brandon Wolgast
 Subj : B-5
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

BW>  contribute to the overall story.  "The Coming of Shadows" just
BW>  recently
BW>  won the Hugo for best dramatic presintation, beating out 12 Monkey's
BW>  Apollo 13, an episode of DS9, "The Visitor," and one other I believe.

   The other nomineee was `Toy Story.'

   Frank


--- QuickBBS 2.85 (Beta-1) GoldBase
 * Origin: The Matrix Data Bank BBS, Rochester, Ny (1:2613/477)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 305 of 584
 From : Leman Russ                          1:2250/7        .pä 11 .åí 96 04:29
 To   : Frank Glover
 Subj : Re: Sound Suppressors/Space Firearms
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
TS>  After all, in space, the slightest suit puncture is a severe problem.

 FG>    Which would seem to make shotguns (or their equivalent) the way
 FG> to go....

 Exceot for the recoil....

>:[

--- DLG Pro v1.0/DLGMail
 * Origin: Sage's Tower - Amiga - (618) 259-1844 (1:2250/7)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 306 of 584
 From : Leman Russ                          1:2250/7        .pä 11 .åí 96 04:30
 To   : Patty Moniz
 Subj : Re: on Sci-Fi Channel
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 There was a red dwarf series after "Back to reality" and it was different from
the prior ones. It began with an ep called "psirens" and ended with "outof
time".

 It was a good series, but depressing in someways.

>;[

--- DLG Pro v1.0/DLGMail
 * Origin: Sage's Tower - Amiga - (618) 259-1844 (1:2250/7)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 307 of 584
 From : HTom Trites                         1:282/62        .åò 12 .åí 96 16:38
 To   : Jeff Hancock
 Subj : Sailor Moon
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 JH> (well, it was about time)

HT> JH>  Um, maybe you should decide for yourself? <hint ;>
HT>Hint noted and logged, Sir! <g>

 JH> Of course, I COULD always tag it on the end of another tape...  Dunno
 JH> how long it is, though.

HT>[Sammy kicking Luna]
HT> JH> mean the Dark Kingdom.  ;)
HT>Ok, that sounds much better.  I'd hate to think that he'd do that in
HT>his right mind.

... I read this too quickly and thought it said

Luna means the Dark Klingon.

And then had a horrifying thought:

Sailor Klingon

:)

Thanks for the Sailor Babylon tales.

--- Maximus 3.01
 * Origin: SpareCom: Internet email and Fidonet (1:282/62)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 308 of 584
 From : Michael Harper                      1:123/10        .åò 12 .åí 96 12:48
 To   : Jeff Hancock
 Subj : Japanese SF
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
While sipping a dry martini, Jeff Hancock told Michael Harper about
Japanese SF...

 JH> Let me know.  I know two traders have dropped all of them, I really
 JH> need to ask them if they're overcompensating or if Disney HAS grabbed
 JH> them all.

 I'm heading down to Dallas for the weekend, but I should be able to get
 to a library to check through back copies of HR and Variety... or I
 could just call Disney and ask...

 JH> They're going to have trouble with Pon Poko Tanuki, that's for sure!
 JH> The raccoons (shapeshifters) do some rather ... creative things with
 JH> their genitals.

 So I've gathered...

 JH> When I first saw Kiki's, I was thinking "Now this is the sort of movie
 JH> that Disney ought to make!".  Then I thought how it would look if
 JH> Disney HAD.  For one thing, there's no real "villian", so they would
 JH> have to manufacture someone for the kiddies to boo at.  Characters
 JH> would have to go into a song and dance number every ten minutes at
 JH> least.  A lot of the simple splendor and subtle, real-life humor would
 JH> have to be removed, of course; although they might leave some of that
 JH> in for the appreciation of the parents.

 Maybe. I'd like to see them try to do it right, but it's not too
 likely. Even though they swear otherwise, I'm still convinced that
 _Lion King_ is a rip of Kimba... Until I see both, nothing's gonna make
 me change my mind; the similarities are too great.

 JH> Maybe they'll just release them direct to video without remaking them
 JH> for a big-screen production.  One can hope, anyway.

 Again, not too likely. They'll have to sanitize them first, and a lot
 of the story will be lost...

 JH> I saw a few clips of Tank Police in a video or two from the tapes I
 JH> recently picked up; it LOOKS good.  Couldn't tell what the story was
 JH> like. ;)

 Story was pretty good; fairly straightforward Masamune. Two eps per
 tape, thirty minutes per. First one involves the tankers chasing a guy
 in a high-tech combat craft. Second one involves Leona going after the
 killer of one of her old friends, and opening up a very big can of
 worms in the process. The other tape I have is pretty much what you'd
 expect from ol' Shirow; runaway truck full of explosives, and the
 tankers have to stop it. Next one after that is where Bonaparte gets
 stolen, and Leona and Al go looking for him. The Puma Sisters are a big
 part of that one. Problem with it is that the story seems a bit - hell,
 a LOT - disjointed. You'd have to see it...

 Those are going onto the video schedule for MSC 16...

 JH> Saw the first Dragon Knight, didn't much care for it.  It looked good,
 JH> and the video-game parody was kind of funny, but for the most part it
 JH> just looked like an excuse for cheesecake.  Not that that's all bad,
 JH> but it wasn't satisfying enough in other respects to justify the $20 I
 JH> spent on it.  Renting or borrowing would have been much better. ;)

 No argument there. Cute, but not all that good.

 JH> Haven't seen the second, was it any better?

 Not really. A bit more sex and nudity, not much more story. Chicklet
 who's running around with Takeru in this one is a short, boyish-looking
 little thing when she's clothed, and has the body of a Bunny when she's
 naked. Typical. The ending was an obvious setup for the next one...

 JH> That may not be their fault.  Japanese porn laws DO exist, and they
 JH> prohibit the depiction of pubic hair or genitals; so either the
 JH> animators have to leave them out, work around it, or if they are shown
 JH> then they have to be pixelated or otherwise censored.  So it could
 JH> just be that way in the original.  (the entire body?)

 It was a closeup shot, and the target area, as it were, was completely
 blacked out. They cut from him licking empty air to a shot of her face,
 eyes the size of dinner plates, screaming his name...

 JH> I heard a rumor that the laws might have changed "recently", but that
 JH> was a while back and I never heard anything else about it.

 Not too likely. But there is porno anime out there; Cream Lemon, for
 example. There was a guy at a recent Trekcon here who had piles of old
 tv shows and anime, and among his wares were at least three tapes of
 Cream Lemon...

 JH> I'll have to give it a try, but this is a pretty low-end town in terms
 JH> of diversity.  We don't even have a decent bookstore, just a couple of
 JH> places that sell used books, and the mass-market WalMart/Kmart/etc.

 Gotta remedy that... You'd think Houston would be a very diverse and
 interesting place...

 JH> I know, I know...  there are always things you'd like to forget.  I
 JH> just seem to have so much more I'd want to remember!

 JH> Of course it does make it somewhat easier to enjoy something you've
 JH> seen before when you don't remember *exactly* what happens in it. ;)

 Yep. _President's Analyst_, with James Coburn. I'd forgotten about the
 scene in the wheatfield with Jim and the chick, where her dress is
 carried away by the helium ballon that's tied to the end of it... and
 while they're busily engaged in pleasing each other, these assassins
 are slipping up on them, trying to kill Coburn. One's about to shoot
 him, and another strangles the first one. He moves a few feet to the
 left, sets up, and somebody else kills him. The new guy moves a few
 feet to the left, and somebody kills him... This happens three or four
 times, until you get to this big Mongolian who gets speared in the back
 with a pitchfork by the Russian who's one of our heroes... and when he
 looks up, Coburn and the girl are walking back toward the camp, and
 he's missed his chance...

 JH> Ah, but did you come up with better arguments for if you should ever
 JH> get placed in that situation again?  ;)

 Not really... :/

 JH> Huh.  Now that is neat.  Did they explain why the sea was no longer
 JH> there?  If anything, one expects the water level to rise, unless they
 JH> were going through another Ice Age.

 Not in so many words; I got the impression that there had been a
 tectonic shift or something, caused by the bombardment from the alien
 ships...

 JH> I remember thinking something similiar, although not as in-depth,
 JH> wayyyy back when I first watched Robotech and saw the Macross portion
 JH> where the SDF-1 landed in the ocean.  And of course by the end of the
 JH> Macross section, it had landed in an empty crater, and they'd filled it
 JH> with water to help support the weight of the thing.

 I remember that, too. But I started thinking about flotation methods
 because of my own stories; I've got several shiploads of colonists in a
 book I'm working on, and I'm trying to think of practical ways to get
 them down on the worlds they'll be landing on... For one thing, if they
 land in a body of water, they can take on reaction mass if they need
 to, which'll allow them to take off again if need be; and since the
 ships will have desalinization gear aboard, it'll be easy to produce
 drinking water while the clean salt and trace metals out of the
 reaction mass...

 JH> So you expect the Mouse to get racier?  ;>

 Haw! The Mouse get racy? Not too bloody likely...

 JH> If nothing else, they could revamp and sanitize it.  Of course then it
 JH> wouldn't be the Dirty Pair, but why should that stop them?

 It won't... and if they clean up the Angels, they'll ruin it... Can't
 you just see Kei and Yuri going into a number while they try to arrest
 some nutcase who's got a grenade launcher pointed at their heads? And
 you could say goodbye to the space bikinis... the girls would be
 wearing jumpsuits or something similar...

 Maybe we should send Mughi over to Disney and let him shred the
 Mouse...

... "You get it, it'll be `Good-bye beach' forever, won't it?" -Ben Knox
--- RA/FD/FMail
 * Origin: The Eclectic Fox -- Memphis TN  (901)327-1008 (1:123/10)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 309 of 584
 From : Lis Carey                           1:322/743       .pä 11 .åí 96 22:04
 To   : Bobby Rissler
 Subj : Re: Favourite Trek movie
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
BR>BR>  one.  It was funny when spock tried to swear.  I think it was also
BR>BR>  cool when spock mind-melded with the whale.  All the other times we
BR>BR>  saw a vulcan mind-meld it was with another humanoid.
BR> FG>
BR> FG>    The silicon-based Horta? The artificial
BR> FG> intelligences of Nomad and V'ger?
BR> FG>
BR>  I'll agree with V'ger but what is the artifical intelligence of Nomad.  Wh
BR>episode is that.  I have not got all of the episodes in my collection yet.

The Nomad episode is called "The Changeling". Large parts of the V'ger
storyline from ST:TMP appear to be lifted wholesale from the TOS
episode "The Changeling".


 * OLX 2.1 TD * Backup not found: (A)bort (R)etry (P)anic

--- TriToss (tm) Professional 10.0 - #66
 * Origin: Keystone BBS * Shrewsbury,MA * 1-508-753-3767 (1:322/743.0)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 310 of 584
 From : Scott Grasmick                      1:350/33        .îí 09 .åí 96 17:12
 To   : Bobby Rissler
 Subj : Favourite Trek movie of a
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
        This whole debate about the best ST movie is a waste.  Each was made for
different reasons.  Some were made just to fulfill contractual obligations.
Everybody has their own opions.  Thats why they make different color shoes.
Personally sometimes I want to watch 3 and maybe the next night generations.
There is a time and place for everything ( there is probably a vulcan quote like
that but I can't think of one.)  How about a debate about why few of the
characters have family lives?  Talk about  disfunctional families.  Spock
doesn't even talk to his brother for the whole TOS and a few movies and then
only when the enterprise gets hijacked.  Kirk is an absent father.  Hangs out
with his kid just in time to see him killed.  Scotty is the orginal workaholic.
Sulu is the only one the that has a relatively normal life.  TNG and voyager
aren't much better.

scott

--- Maximus 2.02
 * Origin: The PYRAMID bbs (1:350/33)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 311 of 584
 From : Owen E. Oulton                      1:243/45        .ÿò 13 .åí 96 15:20
 To   : Todd Sullivan
 Subj : Sound Suppressors/Space Firearms
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 TS> It's in the works, going by trends I've noticed.  If
 TS> Glock or Ram-Line manages to perfect ceramics as they
 TS> seen to be headed, that would solve a lot of problems.
 TS> It's obvious that not all of a firearm can be
 TS> plastic/composite or ceramic, but less steel would help.

Huh?  There are no ceramic parts in either Glock or Ram-Line pistols.  In fact,
the ONLY ceramic part I've ever seen on a handgun was a beautiful set of
porcelain grip panels on an engraved M1911A1.

CFN, O

--- Maximus 2.01wb
 * Origin: Pandora's Box, Ottawa, Ont. 613-829-1209 (1:243/45)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 312 of 584
 From : Owen E. Oulton                      1:243/45        .ÿò 13 .åí 96 15:32
 To   : Michael Harper
 Subj : Sound supressors
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 MH>  One of my other respondents in this thread mentioned seeing/hearing a
 MH>  major flub in _The Shadow_; in an early scene, Cranston orders some
 MH>  enemies killed, and the foley techs very precisely inserted the sound
 MH>  of empty casings hitting the floor after ejected from an autoloader.

Yep, that was mine...  I just noticed another goof.  I'm taping a few episodes
of Mann & Machine from my roommates's copies, and noticed that in the pilot
episode, Bobby Mann's first robot partner approached a suspect with the slide
locked back on his pistol.  No wonder the damned 'bot got iced.

CFN, O

--- Maximus 2.01wb
 * Origin: Pandora's Box, Ottawa, Ont. 613-829-1209 (1:243/45)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 313 of 584
 From : Bob Klahn                           1:234/2         .åò 12 .åí 96 22:26
 To   : Kay Shapero
 Subj : FAVOURITE TREK MOVIE
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 KS> A friend of mine who went to see ST:Generations took one look at the
 KS> "saucer crashes" scene and cried out "They're chanelling Ed Wood!"

 Best laugh of the packet. (BLOTP)

 KS> {in re recent Voyager season premier}
 BK>> I'm still trying to figure out how they managed to get so many
 BK>>incompetents aboard the starships that they keep getting boarded and
 BK>>taken by their enemies.

 KS> And I want to know why the holoDoc didn't just get his one ally into a
 KS> pressure suit, and then flood the air system with nitrogen for about 30
 KS> minutes.  Or, if he really didn't want to kill the Kazons, flood it
 KS> with some sort of knockout gas, offload the lot on the planet where
 KS> they left the crew, then collect the crew and depart.

 Victory is so simple, unless you insist on doing it the hard way.

 I do love the way they repair massive battle damage in just a few hours,
 though.

BOB KLAHN   bob.klahn@toltbbs.com

... Only those who attempt the absurd achieve the impossible.
 * Silver Xpress V4.3P RB10275

--- FLAME v1.1
 * Origin: Telnet toltbbs.com or call 313-854-6001, Boardwatch #55 (1:234/2)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 314 of 584
 From : Bob Klahn                           1:234/2         .åò 12 .åí 96 22:26
 To   : Michel Fortin
 Subj : SF IN GENERAL
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 MF>      By the way; what movies or what TV series have you prefered over
 MF>      the years? Is there something you really felt satisfied with?

 MF>      For my part I can't say I had many. There's a few that comes to my
 MF> mind: Predator, Alien/Aliens, Terminator 1/2, as far as SF goes. B5, in
 MF> terms of TV series. Some of the episodes in ST/STNG. Not much more.

 B5 absolutely.

 The original Twilight Zone series surely.

 MF> (and about anything K.Douglas is in), Crimson Tide (and about anything

 MF> G.Hackman is in), Pulp Fiction and a few others... But I never felt any
 MF> SF movies reach the heights of any of the 'classics', if you know what
 MF> I mean.

 The Time Machine. And a few others. The Day the Earth Stood Still. Or were
 those the classics you were referring to?

BOB KLAHN   bob.klahn@toltbbs.com

... And God said: "I'll buy a vowel."
 * Silver Xpress V4.3P RB10275

--- FLAME v1.1
 * Origin: Telnet toltbbs.com or call 313-854-6001, Boardwatch #55 (1:234/2)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 315 of 584
 From : Ken Mayes                           1:393/7         .åò 12 .åí 96 17:12
 To   : All
 Subj : Sulu on Voyager
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
        Just a few thoughts on the last episode of Voyager.


        Did anyone else get the impression that a golden opportunity was wasted.
They had George Takai and Grace Lee Whitney and Michael Ansara together in one
episode...and they make it a dream/mind-meld sequence?!!

        I wanted to scream. They wasted screen time redoing the opening sequence
from Star Trek VI. Come on, give us a break. Everyone's seen that sequence, why
repeat it?

        If you've got those stars together, then why not come up with a better
story, in real time, possibly a time travel story or maybe (given that time
travel has been done to death) simply do a flash back story focusing entirely on
Sulu and his crew.

        Another point...this one made me want to scream. It was stated early in
the episode that Sulu falsified his logs about the incident in the nebula with
the Klingons. O-kay. Then what about ensign Beltane? He died. How did Sulu
manage to cover that up?! Did he log it as an accident? Were Beltane's parents
never notified of the TRUE reason for his death?

        In the real world a captain that made these decisions would, after the
smoke cleared, have been relieved of command and court-martialed. Sulu's career
would have ended. Why did the powers-that-be behind the show not give thought to
this plot complication? That's a dangling plot thread from hell if you ask me.

        Then there is the matter of continuity. I haven't actually gone back and
watched the scene in question but at the end of Star Trek VI, there is a scene
where Sulu stands on the bridge of the Excelsior and congratulates Kirk. Behind
him is the comliment of his bridge crew. No sign of Tuvok. But (again I haven't
double-checked yet, but I'm sure he's there) Beltane is probably standing there
quite prominantly.

        What gives? What are Berman and Pillar smoking? Why did they screw up
such a golden opportunity? I want to cry.



--- CNet/3
 * Origin: The Bard's Tavern Denton, TX (817)243-5110 USR 28.8   (1:393/7)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 316 of 584
 From : Owen E. Oulton                      1:243/45        .åò 12 .åí 96 04:10
 To   : All
 Subj : Star Cops
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Some time ago, I was discussing the British SF cop show Star Cops with someone
here.  Could that person (or anyone, for that matter) please post a full list of
the episodes in order?

Thanks in advance.
CFN, O

--- Maximus 2.01wb
 * Origin: Pandora's Box, Ottawa, Ont. 613-829-1209 (1:243/45)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 317 of 584
 From : Patty Moniz                         1:260/388       .åò 12 .åí 96 17:56
 To   : JEFF HANCOCK
 Subj : Japanese SF
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE 1.11+
---On 09-07-96  15:33, Jeff Hancock chatted about Japanese SF...

 PM> JH> Do you think we could drag Mr. Wills in here along with us?  ;-)
 PM> Heaven forbid!  ^_^

 JH> Why not?  It could be.... interesting.  ^_-

 Hahaha...  Well, I've noticed a lack of females in this echo.  What ever
 would he do?  O_O

 PM> JH> They did have a warped sense of humor at times, at least from a
 PM> Yes, there is some funny stuff in there.  Did you seen the one where
 PM>Moon, Mercury, and Jupiter were smooshed together in an alley, trying

 JH> No, no, we don't get the dub over here, and all I've found of the
 JH> original is the first 16 episodes.  The last one I have was with Usagi
 JH> and Rei wanting to win the wedding dress contest.  (and nearly
 JH> stealing her lines again ;)

 Well, a little is better than nothing.  Some might think you incredibly
 lucky, to have been spared from the horror of the dub.  =)

 PM>nearly fried them all. When Mercury tried to do her attack, she fell
 PM>over, with her but in the air. Makoto got a funny look on her face.
 PM><g> Very funny stuff.  ;)

 JH> Sounds like it.  I've kind of been wondering about Makoto... What with
 JH> her temporary crush on Haruka and all.  <g>

 Actually, I think she might still have a crush on Haruka.  I could be wrong,
 though.  Haruka and Michiru are awsome!  They're rich, they're beautiful,
 they're powerful, and just plain cool. <G>  I wish I had more with them in
 it.  All I've got is the S movie.  I want to know more about Setsuna, too.

 PM> JH>if Peach Wedding is truly as silly as advertised: "Saint Lip
 PM> JH>Liner Lilly Rainbow!"???
 PM> [jaw drops] No way!  You're kidding?!  ROTFL!!!!!

 JH> That's apparently one of the attacks...  they all seem to involve
 JH> "weapons of love", like lipstick, nail polish, perfume...  I guess it
 JH> was intended as a parody of Sailor Moon taken to the utter extreme, or
 JH> something. ^_^  But I only know what I've heard.

 Definately to the extreme.  <G>  Can you imagine a crossover?  That's be
 pretty funny, actually.  "Moon Gorgious Meditation!"  "Saint Lip Liner
 Lilly Rainbow!"  "Hey, where'd you get that lipstick?"  "I love your
 broach!"

 ^_^

 JH> So you have no idea what the attacks actually do, eh?  (well it's not
 JH> like "Sparkling Wide Pressure" really has anything to do with
 JH> lightning either!)

 At least that one glowed like lightning.  But "Jupiter Oak Evolution"?!
 Since when did she have anything to do with wood?!  You can't go from
 something like lightning bolts to trees!

 JH> There must be some method to the madness.  ;)  Apparently the SuperS
 JH> season is very silly, but the Sailor Stars season after it gets more
 JH> serious.  Perhaps there was a backlash against the excessive cuteness,
 JH> either from the public or the people creating it. ;)

 LOL!  Yes, too much Chibi-Usa can make one sick.  I really want to see some
 of Stars, with Haruka-Papa and Michiru-Mama. ^_^  How cute, with baby Hotaru!
 Stars is supposed to focus on the Outers quite a bit.

        Shadowcat
        pmoniz@erc.cat.syr.edu

... The refrigorator light DOES go out. Now let me out of here!

___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20 [NR]
--- GEcho 1.11+ The BEST
 * Origin: Dragon's Cave, South of Texas, NY. 315-963-3389 (1:260/388)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 318 of 584
 From : Patty Moniz                         1:260/388       .åò 12 .åí 96 18:21
 To   : JEFF HANCOCK
 Subj : Japanese SF
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE 1.11+
---On 09-07-96  15:40, Jeff Hancock chatted about Japanese SF...

 JH> I glanced over the faq, didn't really read it in depth since I haven't
 JH> seen and can't know exactly what they're talking about when they say
 JH> things were changed, other than by inference, but they did say that a
 JH> few of them, especially a block nearer the end, were fairly accurate.

 But the beginning ones were horrible!  One of the things I hated most was
 how they tended to change a really sad or touching moment into something
 (supposedly) funny.  Like at the end of the first episode of R.  Usagi
 looked out into the night and said, "Bye bye normal Usagi."  She was
 practically in tears, and Luna felt really bad.  The dub tried to turn it
 into somekind of a joke, something about ice cream.  It was a very touching
 moment;it showed how much being Sailor Moon hurt Usagi.  And they just
 re-wrote the dialog into some STUPID joke, that wasn't even funny!!!  Sorry.
 I tend to get angry when I think of all the butchering that was done.  I've
 got the first 4 episodes of R, subbed.  Not all that much was changed, but
 enough to get me a little miffed.

 JH> A trader had the first 16 subs available.  Arctic Animation, though.

 Blagh!  AA sucks.

 JH> That could be.  I checked the FAQ and it said something about
 JH> excessive Japanese text that they would have had trouble removing, as
 JH> well as the scene where Usagi turns into a (punk) young adult and stops
 JH> by the bar. Of course she only tried to order a cream soda in the
 JH> original...

 Yeah!  I always wanted to see that;Usagi as a punk! Cool! :)

 JH> What's kind of funny, I don't think there's any actual nudity in SM
 JH> except for a few cases later on, I think maybe in the S season.  But
 JH> it apparently comes close enough for the censors to get nervous.

 Actually, there is a bit.  First, there's the nude transformations.  Then,
 any shower or bath scenes.  A lot of panty shots.  There is enough nudity
 to send parents into an uproar(which isn't very hard).

 PM>airbrushed it, other times it's not so bad.  You want to cause
 PM>yourself real pain?  Watch the sub, then put on the dub.  You'll cry.
 PM>Talk about your self-torture. <G>

 JH> That's kind of what happened when I first got to find out what all the
 JH> fuss was about, some kind soul had copied the first three original and
 JH> four of the first DIC episode on a tape...  the originals were pretty
 JH> fouled up by a crease in the tape though, on top of them being AA
 JH> subs. Even so, the difference was... ARGH!

 [patting back]  It's ok.  Just always remember the original, and it will
 all be ok.  :)



        Shadowcat
        pmoniz@erc.cat.syr.edu

... Elvis is hiding in the Negaverse!

___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20 [NR]
--- GEcho 1.11+ The BEST
 * Origin: Dragon's Cave, South of Texas, NY. 315-963-3389 (1:260/388)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 319 of 584
 From : Wayne Crow                          1:3602/477      .îí 02 .åí 96 13:52
 To   : Ted Stout
 Subj : Favourite Trek movie of a
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
TS>what is your favourite Trek movie of all time? I would like to see some
TS>responses to this question in this area.
TS>I vote for Wrath of Khan.

  Well, I'd actually say it's a tie between Generations and Wrath of
Khan. What's your favorite episode of TNG, DSN, and VOY? Mine are from
TNG is All Good Things, DS9 -- Way of the Warrior Pt. 1&2 ; VOY -- 37
er's. However, I'm still out on Voyager, but as the other two. They
are the best. I also like Classic Trek..

Wayne
wcrow@wwisp.com

***
 þ QMPro 1.53 þ He does the work of 3 Men...Moe, Larry & Curly

--- TriToss (tm) Professional 1.0 - #114
 * Origin: Adventure Sports BBS-McCalla,Al. (205)477-4214 (1:3602/477.0)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 320 of 584
 From : Phill Ash                           1:275/160       .pä 11 .åí 96 09:43
 To   : Justin Mohareb
 Subj : Favourite Trek movie
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE 1.11+

 FG> felt the could get away with giving away the formula
 FG> for transparent aluminum because the identity of its
 FG> creator is a lost historical fact to them. It could

 JM> Actually, in the novelization, they pointed out that he WAS the guy;
 JM> I think Scotty was just kinda surprised that he hadn't come up with
 JM> the idea yet.

        Supposedly, there're a few lines that were cut from Spock's
        "re-education"... one of which was "Who invented transparent
        aluminum?"...


Thanatos:  CO-SYSOP  Beast's Lair/ImagiNet
---
 þ Ôystertags v1.2 þ And underneath, the black light.  Underneath it all

~~~ ReneWave v2.00 [NR]
--- Smile :)
 * Origin: * The Beast's Lair * (804)498-3070 * Va Beach VA * (1:275/160)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 321 of 584
 From : James Dixon                         1:2604/309      .åò 12 .åí 96 18:29
 To   : Mark Jones
 Subj : V
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

MJ> JD> It was a cop show with runaround episodes, mostly... And fell
MJ> JD> apart with such things as the Newcomers' acidic reaction to salt
MJ> JD> (well, what's all this about the aliens dating and having sex
MJ> JD> with Humans all the time, eh? Human saliva and semen would Kill
MJ> JD> them!)...

MJ>   Been there, done that.  I seem to recall posting a rant on this
MJ>very topic not long ago....

Could be, but I didn't read it...


 * OLXWin 1.00a * Excelsior Class: Space Control Ship/Battleship/Heavy Cruiser


--- WM v3.10/93-0747
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Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 322 of 584
 From : James Dixon                         1:2604/309      .åò 12 .åí 96 18:59
 To   : All
 Subj : V: Flashback...
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Flashback...


SPOILER WARNING (are they needed here?)...




















Oh, what a technobabble-packed mish-mash of a mess! Such a Waste of
characters... I won't even begin to get into Paramount's waste of raw
Cash on reconstructing the Excelsior's bridge set, for how little it was
used and how pointlessly... I can't say I wasn't surprised it ended up
like this, because (Captain Sulu gimmick aside), it had all the marks of
a typical V episode: the heavy duty technobbable, the quick ending
exploiting this technobabble, and the copout (there were NO repressed
memories: it was a Virus, cured by theta radiation!)... The Excelsior
officers were all cardboard, Captain Sulu included... This episode was a
"forced" 30th anniversary episode whipped up to justify featuring Sulu
and friends... Tuvok is more and more like a Spock clone all the time (a
running Weakness of this series for it begs comparisons)... And there's
the usual screwy discontinutiy in this episode: Tuvok, a Vulcan, eating
eggs (Vulcans are vegetarians), Kang appearing looking just as ratty as
in "Blood Oath" right down to the ridges and uncombed hair (but Sulu
recognized him right away--yah, they're again saying that us fans should
edit our memories of TOS!), Tuvok is apparently ageless, and what's this
about a raw recruit ensign sleeping bunk bed style with a Senior
Officer--in their Uniforms no less! Oh, and I almost forgot, being a
Trek historian, Tuvok's memories were screwy right from the start when
he said that the Praxis explosion and the attempted rescue of Kirk were
just a couple days apart--should be a couple Months apart as Spock
states... Then again Tuvok rounded this whole era down to "approximately
80 years ago" when, Treknically, it's 82 years ago... For what it's
worth, this episode brought back a painful Flashback to me, of TNG's 2nd
season bomb "Shades of Grey" (worst TNG episode of all time perhaps)...

I've said it before and I'll say it again... V needs NEW WRITERS... Not
a "writers pool" of buddies who like steady work at the cost of locking
out New contributors... This series has the creators, directors, and
writers swapping jobs!


 * OLXWin 1.00a * TREK9.ZIP @ http://www.sas.upenn.edu/~azion


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Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 323 of 584
 From : Henry Triplett                      1:106/564       .ÿò 13 .åí 96 16:53
 To   : JEFF HANCOCK
 Subj : Japanese SF
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 -=> Quoting Jeff Hancock to Patty Moniz <=-

 PM> JH> They did have a warped sense of humor at times, at least from a
 PM> Yes, there is some funny stuff in there.  Did you seen the one where
 PM>Moon, Mercury, and Jupiter were smooshed together in an alley, trying

Saw this one again recently.  It was Zoiscite that they were facing.  And
y'all forgot the part where Sailor Moon nearly poked both Ami and Makoto in
the eyes while trying to hurl her challenge at the foe.

 PM>nearly fried them all. When Mercury tried to do her attack, she fell
 PM>over, with her but in the air. Makoto got a funny look on her face.
 PM><g> Very funny stuff.  ;)

 JH> Sounds like it.  I've kind of been wondering about Makoto... What with
 JH> her temporary crush on Haruka and all.  <g>

I suppose I should rise to Mako-chan's defense at this point.  Jeff, you
should know better! <g>

However, after seeing the episode again, I dunno.  Mako just stood there
staring at Mercury's upraised tush.  Her eyes don't leave it once until
Zoiscite says something to tick her off.  And the looks on her face while
she was staring (yes, she actually changes expression while staring at
Mercury's er..dignity) were really strange.  I'm hoping it's something that
can be attributed to shock/surprise at seeing Ami screw up.  Ami doesn't
screw up like that too often!

 JH> So you have no idea what the attacks actually do, eh?  (well it's not
 JH> like "Sparkling Wide Pressure" really has anything to do with
 JH> lightning either!)

LOL!

 JH> serious.  Perhaps there was a backlash against the excessive cuteness,
 JH> either from the public or the people creating it. ;)

Heck!  After my experiences working on Sailor Babylon, I wouldn't be too
surprised if it was a backlash by the characters themsleves! <g>

Henry

... "I'm not the one that misplaced the Deltivid asteroid belt!" - Q
___ Blue Wave/386 v2.30 [NR]
--- GEcho 1.00
 * Origin: Eat Flaming Death    Houston Texas    713-447-1927 (1:106/564)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 324 of 584
 From : Henry Triplett                      1:106/564       .ÿò 13 .åí 96 14:37
 To   : PATTY MONIZ
 Subj : Japanese SF
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 -=> Quoting Patty Moniz to Jeff Hancock <=-

 PM> of R.  Usagi  looked out into the night and said, "Bye bye normal
 PM> Usagi."  She was  practically in tears, and Luna felt really bad.  The
 PM> dub tried to turn it  into somekind of a joke, something about ice
 PM> cream.  It was a very touching  moment;it showed how much being Sailor
 PM> Moon hurt Usagi.  And they just  re-wrote the dialog into some STUPID
 PM> joke, that wasn't even funny!!!  Sorry.   I tend to get angry when I

And one would like to grab the dubbers by the throat and ask them: WHY???
What did they hope to accomplish by removing such a tender moment?  Or did
they think it was too intense for the kiddies?  <sneer!>

 JH> A trader had the first 16 subs available.  Arctic Animation, though.
 PM>
 PM> Blagh!  AA sucks.

An understatement at best!

 PM> ... Elvis is hiding in the Negaverse!

So that's why everyone there had such cool "rock" names!  (I know: Booo!
Hisss!)

Henry

... Average landing party: Kirk, Dr. McCoy, Spock and Ensign Monsterbait.
___ Blue Wave/386 v2.30 [NR]
--- GEcho 1.00
 * Origin: Eat Flaming Death    Houston Texas    713-447-1927 (1:106/564)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 325 of 584
 From : Todd Sullivan                       1:202/720.3     .åò 12 .åí 96 16:45
 To   : David Johnston
 Subj : B-5
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Reports from the Interior indicate that David Johnston leaked the following to
Dave Ewen, re: B-5

 DJ> That's because the purpose in question is already a failure.  They used
 DJ> to have regular meetings, which were distinctive for their complete
 DJ> failure to accomplish anything (much like the U.N.).  Occasionally one
 DJ> or two representatives would get together and actually come to some
 DJ> kind
 DJ> of agreement.  Now, it's primarily a center for a conspiratorial effort
 DJ> to organise against the insidious forces of darkness.

 DJ> The first three were destroyed by servants of the Enemy.  The fourth
 DJ> "mysteriously vanished" because it was moved through time to be used
 DJ> for
 DJ> someone's purpose against the Enemy.  They kept trying because the
 DJ> Minbari and the Vorlons, the two most powerful known races, insisted,
 DJ> and because Earth would gain tremendous prestige and wealth from
 DJ> getting
 DJ> it to work.  (The wealth comes because B-5 is also a trans-shipment
 DJ> point at a particularly strategic neutral location.)

Just where did you get this inaccurate, libelous drivel?  Not one of those
points is correct.

Do you even bother to /*watch*/ the show?

Todd Sullivan

... "Disbelief is not a balloon, it's a weight to be held up by force."
     --Stephen King

-*- ASTG 1.9

--- Spot 1.3a Unregistered
 * Origin: Todd's Spot in the Continuum (1:202/720.3)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 326 of 584
 From : Todd Sullivan                       1:202/720.3     .åò 12 .åí 96 16:48
 To   : Justin Mohareb
 Subj : New Star Wars movies
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Reports from the Interior indicate that Justin Mohareb leaked the following to
me, re: New Star Wars movies

 TS>> According to the rumor mill, Mark Hamill will play Anakin
 TS>> Skywalker. Supposedly, they're waiting for him to age into
 TS>> the part, or so the word was.

 JM> Doubtful.  Makeup can do a few years no problem. Any more than that,
 JM> all the fans will be dead of old age. *:)

 JM> Besides, have you SEEN Mark Hamill lately?  He looks about 90 or so.

He's only a couple years older than I am.  In his SeaQuest appearances, he
looked rather good, as he did in the WorldCon '96 telecast last week.

 JM> Years haven't been kind.

You haven't looked at Demi Moore lately. <G>

Todd Sullivan

... "No, sir, do /you/ read books /through/?" --Samuel Johnson

-*- ASTG 1.9

--- Spot 1.3a Unregistered
 * Origin: Todd's Spot in the Continuum (1:202/720.3)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 327 of 584
 From : James Dixon                         1:2604/309      .ÿò 13 .åí 96 17:39
 To   : Lis Carey
 Subj : Re: Favourite Trek movie
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

LC>BR>BR>  one.  It was funny when spock tried to swear.  I think it was also
LC>BR>BR>  cool when spock mind-melded with the whale.  All the other times we
LC>BR>BR>  saw a vulcan mind-meld it was with another humanoid.
LC>BR> FG>
LC>BR> FG>    The silicon-based Horta? The artificial
LC>BR> FG> intelligences of Nomad and V'ger?
LC>BR> FG>
LC>BR>  I'll agree with V'ger but what is the artifical intelligence of Nomad.
LC>Wh
LC>BR>episode is that.  I have not got all of the episodes in my collection yet

LC>The Nomad episode is called "The Changeling". Large parts of the V'ger
LC>storyline from ST:TMP appear to be lifted wholesale from the TOS
LC>episode "The Changeling".

That's nothing, you should compare it to the old animated episode "One
Of Our Planets Is Missing"... It's all there: a cosmic cloud on its way
to destroy an inhabited UFP world, the Enterprise nearly
self-destructing to destroy the thing's brain etc...


 * OLXWin 1.00a * Constitution Class Heavy Cruisers: NCC-1700 thru NCC-1711


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Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 328 of 584
 From : Bruce Clark                         1:105/314       .ÿò 13 .åí 96 05:04
 To   : Jeff Hancock
 Subj : Battle Angel!
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12  91-0012

-=> Quoting Jeff Hancock to Chris Cobb <=-

 CC> I recently have gotten into Anime and I saw a movie called Battle
 CC>Angel in subtitled version. The tape contatined 2 parts, I was just
 CC>wondering if ther was anymore to it besides that?

 JH> ...Just checked some of my inadequate reference files, and the only
 JH> listing I have for it says "OAVs".  Since it's plural, there should be
 JH> at least one more tape.  Beyond that, I don't know.

According to "The Complete Anime Guide" there is only the
one tape with the two titles on it.


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 Msg  : 329 of 584
 From : Bruce Clark                         1:105/314       .ÿò 13 .åí 96 19:10
 To   : Patty Moniz
 Subj : Japanese SF
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12  91-0012

-=> Quoting Patty Moniz to Jeff Hancock <=-

 PM> But the beginning ones were horrible!  One of the things I hated most
 PM> was  how they tended to change a really sad or touching moment into
 PM> something  (supposedly) funny.  Like at the end of the first episode
 PM> of R.  Usagi  looked out into the night and said, "Bye bye normal
 PM> Usagi."  She was  practically in tears, and Luna felt really bad.  The
 PM> dub tried to turn it  into somekind of a joke, something about ice
 PM> cream.  It was a very touching  moment;it showed how much being Sailor
 PM> Moon hurt Usagi.  And they just  re-wrote the dialog into some STUPID
 PM> joke, that wasn't even funny!!!  Sorry.
 PM> I tend to get angry when I think of all the butchering that was done.
 PM> I've  got the first 4 episodes of R, subbed.  Not all that much was
 PM> changed, but  enough to get me a little miffed.

Quoting the end of the DUB of "The Return of Sailor Moon".
Alien boy and girl fade out, Sailor Moon looking at Moon and stars.

Luna:
I'm glad your back, Sailor Moon!

Sailor Moon:
Yeah...me too...I guess. (Sad, couple of tears)
(Then, in a happier tone)
No more shopping, piggin out, mall trawlin,
and dreamin about guys...huh Luna?

Luna:
Never stopped you before!

End quotes

I've recorded all of the American release episodes thru
the conversion of the four sisters from the NegaVerse to
human. There are 65 altogether, but it doesn't look like
they'll continue anytime soon.
Rini has just discovered that Serena is Sailor Moon and
has the Silver Crystal, but Serena hasn't yet realised
that Rini is her, and Darien's, daughter from the future.

Nothing like getting a person hooked then having the
season end and not know if they will renew for another
year.

Where can a person get the SUBBED version?
VIZ SHOP-BY-MAIL doesn't have any of the Sailor Moon
videos listed in the flyer I get from them.


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Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 330 of 584
 From : Bruce Clark                         1:105/314       .ÿò 13 .åí 96 19:50
 To   : Patty Moniz
 Subj : Japanese SF
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12  91-0012

-=> Quoting Patty Moniz to Jeff Hancock <=-

 JH> I hear in one episode they visit an anime studio.  ;)

The American version is: "An Animated Mess"

 PM> Yup.  And the studio was doing the Sailor V movie. :)  It was an ok
 PM> episode,
 PM> but not one of the best.

 JH> Another weird one was "Here is Greenwood".  Someone showed up who said
 JH> she was a manga artist, and wanted two of the character to model for
 JH> her work.  The subtitler thought that the character _was_ the real-life
 JH> artist who drew the original manga the anime was based on!  Kind of a
 JH> self-referential causality loop of sorts, definitely odd.
 PM>
 PM> I LOVE Greenwood!  And I have that video!  At first, it was a little
 PM> too  wierd for me, but the more I watched, the more I liked it.  Now
 PM> it's one of  my favorites, and my friends love it, too!

The American version is: "An Artful Attack"
and she (Peggy Jones / "Lani Lenei" [spelling?])
referres to herself as _a local artist_ who wants Darien
and Serena to pose for her for a Prince and Princess painting.
Come to think of it, the one TV show that I saw, half a year
ago, that had a report on Sailor Moon, and the artist who
originated the concept did look like Peggy Jones.

Definately have to see the SUBBED episodes to see what I'm
missing.


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Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 331 of 584
 From : Bruce Clark                         1:105/314       .ÿò 13 .åí 96 20:19
 To   : Jeff Hancock
 Subj : Japanese SF
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12  91-0012

-=> Quoting Jeff Hancock to Henry Triplett <=-

 JH> Anyway, maybe you can recognize it.  The plot was about a demon taking
 JH> the place of a star and putting on some kind of talent search; getting
 JH> everyone (mostly classmates) on-stage, and then stealing their energy.
 JH> The bathtub scene was when the star was first caught by the demon, who
 JH> froze her with a breath attack (suggesting a crude innuendo), and then
 JH> took her place.  It doesn't really show anything, and I suppose DIC
 JH> could have simply taken that out entirely and had the audience assume
 JH> that the star had _always_ been the demon, but the FAQ doesn't say.

 JH> Usagi and Naru (okay, Serena and Molly, grrrr) were rehearsing
 JH> together, in what I thought was a hilarious self-referental joke, to
 JH> the Sailor Moon opening theme song (the FAQ says they kept the joke -
 JH> does that mean they used the American version or the original?), but
 JH> that didn't work out, so... "Molly" convinced "Melvin" to dress up in
 JH> drag, with lipstick and everything, and be her dance partner.  *THAT*
 JH> was what made me assume DIC wouldn't touch it, not considering their
 JH> other cuts and the Concerned Parents and the Target Audience, and I
 JH> haven't heard any jokes or comments about it either; but the FAQ
 JH> doesn't say they changed it at all.  So, was it shown, or wasn't it?

The episode _was_ "Americanized". If there was any nudity, it was
covered up with a shower curtain and the cocoon the demon wrapped
the star in.
The American version is titled: So You Want to be a Superstar

The bathtub scenes of Serena (Usagi) and Raye (Rei) only have
vague outlines showing thru the water and the backside shot of
Raye is covered by her hair.
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Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 332 of 584
 From : Funky Diva                          6:720/1415      .ÿò 13 .åí 96 19:54
 To   : Richard Sarner
 Subj : B-5
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: FastEcho 1.45 801
Richard Sarner giggled and whispered "B-5" in Dave Ewen's ear.

 DE=> what I had assumed was the central premise of the program:
 DE=> Who here can explain how this 'U.N. building in space' conducts the
 DE=> business that is its central purpose? Of the few episodes I have seen
 DE=> What happened to B-1, B-2, B-3, and B-4? And who would ever believe
 DE=> that the same project name would continue to be used after all these
 DE=> failures?

 RS> B5 was written differently than most shows. It is meant to be a
 RS> complete

novel spanning 5 years, and what we have seen is mostly the

Does this mean that the writers of B5 already have a definite "ending" in
their minds (how they're going to end the whole story)?  Like for example
as a miniseries does?

 RS> exposition and

are only just getting towards the focal point. B5 is

 RS> the place that the

beginning of the story unfolds, not the emphasis,

 RS> it could be destroyed and

the tale would continue in other places.


lili...
email:UFJL0486@MS6.HINET.NET

... OdoQWK 1.0: It shapes itself to work with your software.
---
 * Origin: -=) dysan bbs (=- (02)9435631/9421935/9423928/9484436 (6:720/1415)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 333 of 584
 From : Funky Diva                          6:720/1415      .ÿò 13 .åí 96 19:54
 To   : All
 Subj : SF shows in America
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: FastEcho 1.45 801
Hi fellahs,

What are the top 5 popular SF TV shows in America?  If anyone could also
provide figures to back it up, it'd be better.  Thanks.


lili...
email:UFJL0486@MS6.HINET.NET

... Apple (c) 1767, Sir Isaac Newton
---
 * Origin: -=) dysan bbs (=- (02)9435631/9421935/9423928/9484436 (6:720/1415)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 334 of 584
 From : Funky Diva                          6:720/1415      .ÿò 13 .åí 96 21:27
 To   : Funky Diva
 Subj : SF shows in America
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: FastEcho 1.45 801
Funky Diva giggled and whispered "SF shows in America" in All's ear.

 FD> Hi fellahs,

Whoops!  Er, that was a typo rather than an ambitious attempt to peasantize
all you guys under my ladyship. :p


lili...
email:UFJL0486@MS6.HINET.NET

... Usually, I'm insane, but I have lucid moments when I'm only stupid.
---
 * Origin: -=) dysan bbs (=- (02)9435631/9421935/9423928/9484436 (6:720/1415)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 335 of 584
 From : Justin Mohareb                      1:249/127       .ÿò 13 .åí 96 23:28
 To   : Phill Ash
 Subj : Favourite Trek movie
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 -=> Quoting Phill Ash to Justin Mohareb <=-

 JM> Actually, in the novelization, they pointed out that he WAS the guy;
 JM> I think Scotty was just kinda surprised that he hadn't come up with
 JM> the idea yet.

 PA> Supposedly, there're a few lines that were cut from Spock's
 PA> "re-education"... one of which was "Who invented transparent
 PA> aluminum?"...

Well, I picked up the ST:IV novelization I had lying around (I gotta do
something about that *:), and one of the questions listed is "name the
significant events of 1987" (the movie was out in '86, or at least the
book is copyright 86).  The scene where Scotty and McCoy are talking to
the engineer, Scotty says that he indeed invented it (as well as a tonne of
other stuff).

JJ Mohareb


... Infinity is eternally irritating.
___ Blue Wave/386 v2.30 [NR]

--- Maximus 2.01wb
 * Origin: *Synthesis*  Kingston, Ont., Canada! (1:249/127)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 336 of 584
 From : David Johnston                      1:342/14        .óá 14 .åí 96 00:25
 To   : James Dixon
 Subj : V: Flashback...
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
-> exploiting this technobabble, and the copout (there were NO repressed
-> memories: it was a Virus, cured by theta radiation!)... The Excelsior

I agree.  First of all, that wasn't a virus, it was a demon.  And by
removing the repressed memories, they removed a real opportunity to
learn something more about Tuvok's history.  I thought that the
connection between the two events is that they would have been both
covered up, hidden from Star Fleet and his parents.
In fact, I suspect the original script read this way and they changed it
at the last moment because it would have made Tuvok imperfekt.



-> the usual screwy discontinutiy in this episode: Tuvok, a Vulcan,
-> eating eggs (Vulcans are vegetarians), Kang appearing looking just as
-> ratty as

Not eating meat isn't necessarily the same as not eating animal
byproducts.  It all depends on your reason for not eating meat.

-> edit our memories of TOS!), Tuvok is apparently ageless, and what's
-> this about a raw recruit ensign sleeping bunk bed style with a Senior

Tuvok is not apparently ageless.  The original memory was Tuvok as a
small boy failing to save a little girl from death, but we saw his adult
self doing it, because his adult self was remembering it.

--- PCBoard (R) v15.21/100
 * Origin: Freddy's Place - Edm. AB - 33.6K (403) 413-3460 (1:342/14)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 337 of 584
 From : James Dixon                         1:2604/309      .óá 14 .åí 96 08:47
 To   : Bob Klahn
 Subj : SF IN GENERAL
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

BK> MF>      By the way; what movies or what TV series have you prefered over
BK> MF>      the years? Is there something you really felt satisfied with?

BK> MF>      For my part I can't say I had many. There's a few that comes to my
BK> MF> mind: Predator, Alien/Aliens, Terminator 1/2, as far as SF goes. B5, in
BK> MF> terms of TV series. Some of the episodes in ST/STNG. Not much more.

BK> B5 absolutely.

BK> The original Twilight Zone series surely.

Well, I wouldn't consider the original Twilight Zone to be science
fiction... It was mostly supernatural/psychological drama... When they
did touch upon SF, it was generally flawed (i.e. using Galaxy
synonymously with Star System)...

Now, The Outer Limits, on the other hand, was first-rate SF for the most
part...


 * OLXWin 1.00a * Excelsior Class: Space Control Ship/Battleship/Heavy Cruiser


--- WM v3.10/93-0747
 * Origin: Plain Brown Wrapper BBS-Cresskill NJ.(201)569-6685  (1:2604/309)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 338 of 584
 From : James Dixon                         1:2604/309      .óá 14 .åí 96 08:51
 To   : Ken Mayes
 Subj : Sulu on Voyager
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

KM>        Just a few thoughts on the last episode of Voyager.


KM>        Did anyone else get the impression that a golden opportunity was
KM>wasted. They had George Takai and Grace Lee Whitney and Michael Ansara toget
KM>in one episode...and they make it a dream/mind-meld sequence?!!

The whole episode was a sad waste--of talent, of actors, and of a whole
bridge re-creation...mind-meld or no mind-meld...

Kang was a really pointless tidbit chucked in... What'd he have, one
line on the viewscreen? Even messier, those bozos simply Had to give him
the modern TNG era look with the ratty hair and ridges--if he didn't
have a speaking role Nobody would've recognized him... I guess us fans
are supposed to believe that All Klingons look this way... Heck, one
wonders Why, with this obvious lack of care for past continuity, they'd
go through the trouble of re-creating the bridge with such detail...

KM>        I wanted to scream. They wasted screen time redoing the opening
KM>sequence from Star Trek VI. Come on, give us a break. Everyone's seen that
KM>sequence, why repeat it?

More to the point: it was a mega-waste of money for them to rebuild the
Excelsior bridge right down to the graphics displays on the
monitors--when they could have easily just used the footage from ST VI
which most of this episode was built around...

KM>        If you've got those stars together, then why not come up with a bett
KM>story, in real time, possibly a time travel story or maybe (given that time
KM>travel has been done to death) simply do a flash back story focusing entirel
KM>on Sulu and his crew.

Yup, and the ultimate cop-out was this repressed memory crap: when we
discover that the cliff disaster wasn't Real in the first place, but a
Virus, easily cured with technobabble-radiation... A Cheapo excuse to
zip back to the Excelsior bridge--even though it had Nothing to do with
the plot!

KM>        Another point...this one made me want to scream. It was stated early
KM>the episode that Sulu falsified his logs about the incident in the nebula wi
KM>the Klingons. O-kay. Then what about ensign Beltane? He died. How did Sulu
KM>manage to cover that up?! Did he log it as an accident? Were Beltane's paren
KM>never notified of the TRUE reason for his death?

Who knows, I was too absorbed by the other YATIs and problems... Maybe
she simply didn't read all the logs or they were classified or
unavailable...

KM>        Then there is the matter of continuity. I haven't actually gone back
KM>and watched the scene in question but at the end of Star Trek VI, there is a
KM>scene where Sulu stands on the bridge of the Excelsior and congratulates Kir
KM>Behind him is the comliment of his bridge crew. No sign of Tuvok. But (again
KM>haven't double-checked yet, but I'm sure he's there) Beltane is probably
KM>standing there quite prominantly.

Yah, I noticed this too... They blew continuity big-time here... Other
examples which are even nastier: Tuvok said that the Praxis explosion
was mere Days before the Klingon attack (which was set during the
abortive rescue of Kirk and McCoy)... ST VI starts with the
Praxis explosion and then back at Star Fleet HQ Spock walks in and
explains that Praxis exploded 2 Months ago and 1 Month ago he opened up
a dialog with Gorkon... That was 3 Months back not 3 Days... Then
there's the problem of Tuvok not only not aging, but for a raw Ensign
out of the Academy he bunks with a senior officer And they sleep in
their uniforms! (I guess, Treknically, we can explain this all by
Tuvok's failing memory and the virus--maybe the Klingon attack happened
right after ST VI for instance?)... And what's that about Tuvok ready to
eat an Egg at the start of this episode? Vulcans are vegetarians!

KM>        What gives? What are Berman and Pillar smoking? Why did they screw u
KM>such a golden opportunity? I want to cry.

They Don't Give A Damn about Trek continuity... Been saying this since
the death of the Bird... Voyager is the saddest Trek series Ever (even
TAS was better written and executed)... The writing stinks first and
formost because the writers are the producers who are in turn,
frequently, the creators... No New writers are allowed in (this lets the
current "writers pool" to have virtually steady work and to limit
expenses, and lets them split the loot fewer ways)... All this at the
Cost of Trek itself... They Don't Care... As long as they can leach Trek
for all it's worth Now... And to top it all off: these
writers/producers/creators were not fans of the original series, and
most of them just treat it as any other "show"...


 * OLXWin 1.00a * Federation-Star League-Ascension-Adamant-Nichter


--- WM v3.10/93-0747
 * Origin: Plain Brown Wrapper BBS-Cresskill NJ.(201)569-6685  (1:2604/309)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 339 of 584
 From : Joey Haven                          1:3654/5        .cê 15 .åí 96 00:23
 To   : Lis Carey
 Subj : Re: Favourite Trek movie
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: FastEcho 1.45a 7602
 ¨¨¨ On 11 Sep 96  18:04:00 Lis said to Bobby ab Re: Favourite Trek movie ¨¨¨

 LC> The Nomad episode is called "The Changeling". Large parts of the V'ger
 LC> storyline from ST:TMP appear to be lifted wholesale from the TOS
 LC> episode "The Changeling".

     Agreed! The logic used in "The Changeling" was what appealed to me
     and is what is missing in ST these days. In a world with TV shows
     expounding the benefits of slang, misinformation and unprovoked
     violence ST always seemed to imply that using your brain would be
     of most benefit to yourself. I credit ST with my fascination with
     science in general.   <picking-up my Soap Box now ;) >

     LLAP
     Joey

 LC>  ! Origin: Keystone BBS * Shrewsbury,MA * 1-508-753-3767 (1:322/743.0)

...                            ^^^^^^^^^^
     PS: My wifes maiden name is Shrewsbury!!

... "Without facts, the decision cannot be made logically." - Spock
---
 * Origin: Programmers Paragon - Greensboro, NC (1:3654/5)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 340 of 584
 From : Todd Sullivan                       1:202/720.3     .ÿò 13 .åí 96 16:31
 To   : Bobby Rissler
 Subj : Favourite Trek movie of a
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Reports from the Interior indicate that Bobby Rissler leaked the following to
me, re: Favourite Trek movie of a

 TS>> The episode in question is "The Changeling", based on
 TS>> an old Eurpoean legend.

 BR>   I haven't seen that episode yet.  I've subscribed to the video
 BR> collection though, so I should recieve it sometime in the next few
 BR> years.

You're kidding!

Well, maybe not.  Trek might be available in your area, but probably late at
night.  Good luck with the collection.

Todd Sullivan

... Here Fido, fetch.  Get the *.PKT, Fido.  The PKT..The--Dumb dog!

-*- ASTG 1.9

--- Spot 1.3a Unregistered
 * Origin: Todd's Spot in the Continuum (1:202/720.3)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 341 of 584
 From : Todd Sullivan                       1:202/720.3     .ÿò 13 .åí 96 16:36
 To   : Leman Russ
 Subj : Sound Suppressors/Space Firearms
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Reports from the Interior indicate that Leman Russ leaked the following to me,
re: Sound Suppressors/Space Firearms

  TS>> I doubt it.  Gyros are more expensive than those Glasers you
 TS>> mentioned.  It seems to me that they'd be more likely to go with the
 TS>> H/K G-11 concept of a fairly massy weapon with lighter bullets.

 TS>> After all, in space, the slightest suit puncture is a severe
 TS>> problem.

 LR>  True, but gyrojets might still have advantages in vacc. Also, in vacc
 LR> and microgravity they could armor spacesuits since weight would be less
 LR> of an issue.

True, but you still have to consider mass, which does not change, and
inertia/momentum.  Manned Maneuvering Units (MMU) like those used on the Space
Shuttle need lots of work to get to any level of tactical use.

 LR>  I also wonder about self-sealing suits...

Self-sealing suits, as far as I know, are still in the primitve stages. And
there's the question of just how much damage one will absorb before sealing
functions are overwhelmed.  You can rely on such only so long; and the tire
industry is a good example of that.

Can't see any "run-flat" suits being too popular... <G>

Todd Sullivan

... "Back off, man!  I've got an ice cream bar and I know how to use it!"
     --Ren Hoek

-*- ASTG 1.9

--- Spot 1.3a Unregistered
 * Origin: Todd's Spot in the Continuum (1:202/720.3)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 342 of 584
 From : Todd Sullivan                       1:202/720.3     .ÿò 13 .åí 96 16:43
 To   : Phill Ash
 Subj : Favourite Trek movie
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Reports from the Interior indicate that Phill Ash leaked the following to Justin
Mohareb, re: Favourite Trek movie

 FG>> felt the could get away with giving away the formula
 FG>> for transparent aluminum because the identity of its
 FG>> creator is a lost historical fact to them. It could

 JM>> Actually, in the novelization, they pointed out that he WAS the guy;
 JM>> I think Scotty was just kinda surprised that he hadn't come up with
 JM>> the idea yet.

 PA>         Supposedly, there're a few lines that were cut from Spock's
 PA>         "re-education"... one of which was "Who invented transparent
 PA>         aluminum?"...

That's what I heard, and read in the "Star Trek Chronology" by Mike Okuda.

Either way, Scotty's an _Engineer_, and would have known that.

Todd Sullivan

... Has an ego like a black hole.

-*- ASTG 1.9

--- Spot 1.3a Unregistered
 * Origin: Todd's Spot in the Continuum (1:202/720.3)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 343 of 584
 From : Todd Sullivan                       1:202/720.3     .óá 14 .åí 96 16:02
 To   : Owen E. Oulton
 Subj : Sound Suppressors/Space Firearms
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Reports from the Interior indicate that Owen E. Oulton leaked the following to
me, re: Sound Suppressors/Space Firearms

 TS>> It's in the works, going by trends I've noticed.  If
 TS>> Glock or Ram-Line manages to perfect ceramics as they
 TS>> seen to be headed, that would solve a lot of problems.
 TS>> It's obvious that not all of a firearm can be
 TS>> plastic/composite or ceramic, but less steel would help.

 OEO> Huh?  There are no ceramic parts in either Glock or Ram-Line pistols.
 OEO> In fact,
 OEO> the ONLY ceramic part I've ever seen on a handgun was a beautiful set
 OEO> of porcelain grip panels on an engraved M1911A1.

You ought to read a few of the magazines.  Ram-Line was working on a ceramic and
polymer handgun a few years ago.  The ceramic was for the barrel.

It was only a .22 LR, but it's only a matter of time before they get to "real"
calibers.

I certainly can't see Glock sitting still on this line, either.  They pioneered
the so-called "plastic gun".

Todd Sullivan

... (A)bort, (R)etry, (S)mack the @#$&*~ thing!

-*- ASTG 1.9

--- Spot 1.3a Unregistered
 * Origin: Todd's Spot in the Continuum (1:202/720.3)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 344 of 584
 From : Bobby Rissler                       1:270/435       .óá 14 .åí 96 15:46
 To   : Stephen Simmons
 Subj : Klingons
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

BR> Good point.  I never thought of that before.  I think all of the
BR> humanoid species in the trek universe have something in common with
BR> humans.  Its probably how Gene Roddenbury wanted
BR> it.  He always got his
BR> way you know.  At least thats what the other producers said.

 SS>     I can't see any reason to complain about Gene getting his
 SS>     own way.  After all, he's the one who brought us the show in
 SS>     the first place.

 SS>     Remember that the show DID premier during the late 60's, in
 SS>     the midst of a lot of cultural soul-searching and upheaval.
 SS>     TOS does occasionally dabble in political/social commentary.
 SS>     The analogous representations wouldn't work if the aliens
 SS>     were TOO alien.  There had to be enough "humanity" in the
 SS>     alien cultures for us to be able to comprehend them.

  I'm not complaining, I was just stating a fact.  I know he brought us the show
in the first place and I'm glad he did.

----
Bobby Rissler
bobby.rissler%270-435@mdtnbbs.com


--- Maximus 3.01
 * Origin: The Good News BBS  Bowmansville, PA (1:270/435)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 345 of 584
 From : Bobby Rissler                       1:270/435       .óá 14 .åí 96 15:49
 To   : David Little
 Subj : New Star Wars movies
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 BR> "Shadows of the Empire" is going to be released as a movie.  They
 BR> had a conversation between the producers (via
 DL> satalite) and they were
 BR> talking about the movie "Shadows of the Empire."  It is based on the
 BR> book, just as the new multimedia software is.
 BR> The special edition is
 BR> coming out soon, then "Shadows of the Empire" is
 BR> coming out, then come
 BR> the prequels.  I know this because I was at a
 BR> convention were they had
 BR> one of the producers talking about it.

 DL>         I *SEVERLY* doubt it. Why don't you try talking directly to Steve
 DL> Perry or Steven Sansweet. You might also try reading
 DL> "The Making of SOTE" and
 DL> it will confirm that they will not make it into a movie.

  I was there when they were talking about the movie and all.  This was about
two weeks ago.  If you would have been at a convention where they gave this
presentation you would have heard the same thing.

----
Bobby Rissler
bobby.rissler%270-435@mdtnbbs.com


--- Maximus 3.01
 * Origin: The Good News BBS  Bowmansville, PA (1:270/435)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 346 of 584
 From : Brandon Wolgast                     1:363/281       .ÿò 13 .åí 96 22:17
 To   : All
 Subj : Homeboys
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE/32 1.2
Well, okay, everyone hates it... but I like it. =)  The only two things
they need to get rid is the terrible fake laugh track and that annoying
as nothing else computer.  Aside from that Homeboys in Outer Space is
hilarious.  It won't last, I know, but it is funny.  Aside from Babylon
5 it is the only other quality sci-fi show on television I should say.

Even the titles are hilarious, "The Pleasure Planet Phalopia: G Marks
the Spot."  I still laugh just thinking of it.

People here don't seem to get it is SUPPOSED to be stupid, it's suppoed
to be kinda (or very) "cheesy," its not quality, of course it's not. But
for 30 minutes a week, it's refreshing and fun to watch.

Brandon

***
 * OLX 2.1 * Backup not found: (A)bort (R)etry (P)anic

---
 * Origin: Compudyne Microsystems, Inc. * Data/Fax (407)381-2798 * (1:363/281)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 347 of 584
 From : Carin M. Armlin                     1:3621/14       .ÿò 13 .åí 96 02:59
 To   : BOBBY RISSLER
 Subj : Trek movies
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 After offering her apologies, Carin has decided to butt her way into
 the conversation:

 R> I agree 100%.  Voyager and DS9 could be a little more like the
 BR> original  series or The Next Generation.  They take place in the same
 BR> time period but  they are so different.

 Why?  What's wrong with Voyager and DS9 following their own formula?  I
 think if all four of the Trek series had followed the same pattern, they
 would have gotten extremely dull.

 Carin


... "Scotty, beam me up another Blue Wave message."

___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20 [NR]
--- Synchronet+SBBSecho v1.22
 * Origin: niflheim - clarksville.tn 615.551.9285 (1:3621/14)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 348 of 584
 From : Bob Klahn                           1:234/2         .óá 14 .åí 96 16:55
 To   : James Dixon
 Subj : V: FLASHBACK...
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 JD> states... Then again Tuvok rounded this whole era down to "approximately
 JD> 80 years ago" when, Treknically, it's 82 years ago... For what it's

 Whereas a TOS vulcan would have given you the exact number of years, months
 and days.

BOB KLAHN   bob.klahn@toltbbs.com

... Ham and eggs: A chicken's day's work; a pig's lifetime commitment.
 * Silver Xpress V4.3P RB10275

--- FLAME v1.1
 * Origin: Telnet toltbbs.com or call 313-854-6001, Boardwatch #55 (1:234/2)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 349 of 584
 From : Pavel Viaznikov                     2:5020/185.9    .cê 15 .åí 96 01:20
 To   : Michel Fortin
 Subj : Independence Day
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Hi there, Michel!

Thursday August 29 1996 22:38, Michel Fortin chose to gladden the heart of
Patrick Duda and wrote:

 PD>> I'd like to see the bridge of the alien ship, and on the huge
 PD>> monitor when they're setting off for earth it says "Invaild System
 PD>> Disk, Insert another and try again" and the alien leader takes off
 PD>> it's hat and smacks the pilot with it.

Rather, "Invalid User - Replace and strike any key", and the aliens start
looking for a key marked "ANY"...

                                   With regards and a nice smile,     :)
                                               Pavel

---
 * Origin: To beer or not to beer? (C) Shakesbeer (2:5020/185.9)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 350 of 584
 From : James Dixon                         1:2604/309      .óá 14 .åí 96 20:02
 To   : Funky Diva
 Subj : B-5
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

FD> RS> B5 was written differently than most shows. It is meant to be a
FD> RS> complete novel spanning 5 years, and what we have seen is mostly the

FD>Does this mean that the writers of B5 already have a definite "ending" in
FD>their minds (how they're going to end the whole story)?  Like for example
FD>as a miniseries does?

From my understanding, Yes...



 * OLXWin 1.00a * O 875847885774 - Typical Okudagram Label


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Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 351 of 584
 From : James Dixon                         1:2604/309      .óá 14 .åí 96 20:05
 To   : Scott Grasmick
 Subj : Favourite Trek movie of a
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

SG>        This whole debate about the best ST movie is a waste.  Each was made
SG>for different reasons.  Some were made just to fulfill contractual obligatio
SG> Everybody has their own opions.  Thats why they make different color shoes.

Yah, but it's still interesting to hear what different people think
about the movies... I've never been 100% satisfied with any of them, and
quite frequently I've been majorly disappointed with them (but then
again I rip into them and nitpick all the details which shouldn't
normally be nitpicked, if you know what I mean)...

SG>Personally sometimes I want to watch 3 and maybe the next night generations.
SG>There is a time and place for everything ( there is probably a vulcan quote
SG>like that but I can't think of one.)  How about a debate about why few of th
SG>characters have family lives?  Talk about  disfunctional families.  Spock
SG>doesn't even talk to his brother for the whole TOS and a few movies and then
SG>only when the enterprise gets hijacked.  Kirk is an absent father.  Hangs ou
SG>with his kid just in time to see him killed.  Scotty is the orginal workahol
SG> Sulu is the only one the that has a relatively normal life.  TNG and voyage
SG>aren't much better.

Much of this has been thoroughly discussed in the past... Spock's
brother was a half-brother and a true outcast exiled from Vulcan (for
full info about his background, read the excellent novelization of ST V
by J.M. Dillard)... Kirk is an absent father because he didn't know he
had a son until ST II (though this was touched upon in the novel "Faces
of Fire" if my memory's still holding up)...and of course his son was
quickly killed off in ST III (rather pointless for introducing him!)...
Scotty's been said to have had problems relating to women (as in forming
long-term relationships) so he bonds with his engines... I wouldn't say
that Sulu's the only one with a normal life, though it does seem that it
turned out that way when he gets a daughter in Generations (though if
you read How he got a daughter in Peter David's novel "The Captain's
Daughter" you wouldn't say it was normal!)... I think McCoy comes
closest to the mark: he has a daughter but is divorced...

O'Brien on DS9 has a true family life--and it's pretty much a major
contributor to DS9's soapy feel, and little Molly does a fine job of
slowing down the episodes! But I've always been of the opinion that
little kids in TV SF just don't mix very well...



 * OLXWin 1.00a * Star Fleet Command - Star Fleet Headquarters - U.F.P.


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 Msg  : 352 of 584
 From : James Dixon                         1:2604/309      .óá 14 .åí 96 20:16
 To   : Funky Diva
 Subj : SF shows in America
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

FD>Hi fellahs,

FD>What are the top 5 popular SF TV shows in America?  If anyone could also
FD>provide figures to back it up, it'd be better.  Thanks.

Depends on what you mean... Current series or overall? Hey, I'm very
flexible and have watched virtually all TV SF at one time or another...
Many I wouldn't dare compare because they take different approaches
(some are even only borderline SF series)...

But anyhow, offhand, and on the spur of the moment, and in no special
order...

Star Trek (the classic, definitive, original series)...
Doctor Who (preferably Before the McCoy Era)...
The Outer Limits (the classic, original series)...
The Prisoner...
Blake's Seven...

That's offhand you understand... I could easily add 5+ more...
Babylon 5 comes to mind...


 * OLXWin 1.00a * STARDATE 7312.31 APPROVED BY GENE RODDENBERRY-ST Blueprints


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 Msg  : 353 of 584
 From : Kay Shapero                         1:102/524       .ÿò 13 .åí 96 07:31
 To   : Owen E. Oulton
 Subj : Re: Klingons
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Sep 11 21:38>, Owen E. Oulton (1:243/45) wrote to Kay Shapero:

 OE>I still like Kor...  Seeing the Three Klingeteers (Kor, Koloth
 OE>and Kang) together again for the first time in Blood Oath was a
 OE>real treat.

 KS> Missed that one - I'll have to read it.  Was Mara around too?

 OE>Read it?  How do you read a TV episode - closed captioning?  <G>

Sorry - I thought I'd seen that title on a Trek novel at the bookstore.  I've
only seen about half of DS9 in any case - they show it during the time when I
put my kid to bed, and while Nicolai has taped a lot of them, I don't always
have time to watch them during the day either.  I'll have to check and see if
we've got it around here somewhere.

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Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 354 of 584
 From : Kay Shapero                         1:102/524       .ÿò 13 .åí 96 07:49
 To   : Scott Royall
 Subj : Spacing Kazons
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Sep 11 20:07>, Scott Royall (1:106/357) wrote to Kay Shapero:

 KS> And I want to know why the holoDoc didn't just get his one ally
 KS> into a pressure suit, and then flood the air system with nitrogen
 KS> for about 30 minutes.  Or, if he really didn't want to kill the
 KS> Kazons, flood it with some sort of knockout gas, offload the lot
 KS> on the planet where they left the crew, then collect the crew
 KS> and depart.

 SR>Hell woman, cut to the chase. :)

 SR>"Computer, open space-cocks and shutdown immediately."

I thought of that, but it's not nearly as good an idea - all loose objects would
go flying in the resulting wind and maybe damage the ship, and even if you
disable the warning klaxon, this would attract enough attention that some of the
Kazons might have time to get into spacesuits.  The nifty thing about the
nitrogen approach is that hypoxia is sneaky - and the first thing to go is
judgement.  Most of 'em would collapse without ever knowing what hit them.  And
those who noticed co-workers keeling over wouldn't be in the best of all shapes
for figuring out what was wrong.  Again, you'd have to disable the low oxygen
warning system, but surely someone who lives in the computer could do it...

Hmm... just remembered the plants.  So do this on a per room or section basis
and make sure the plant room still has plenty of CO2.

 SR>Of course, Starfleet would MEVER do that.  <GAG>

Not after establishing the presense of a baby on board.  The solution, of
course, is to locate the kid and seal off the area FIRST before zapping the rest
of the ship (find some way that leaves the Kazons thinking it's a glitch, not
the opening move of an attack).  Pick a time when the mother was in with it, and
you lose most of the objections this one leads to.  As it stands now, the mother
is dead, the father is alive, so is the kid, and the stage is set for another of
those annoyingly predictable revenge stories sometime further down the line,
probably in the inevitable movie.

 SR>What I don't get is is the holoDoc's programming truly comfined
 SR>to that single computer in sickbay?  Has redundancy been
 SR>abandoned?

Beats me.  I'd expect him to be in the entire ship's computer net.  In fact I'd
expect him to be able to run the sucker from inside even better then from having
his holo-self materilalize to use the keyboard.  I saw that act as sheer
desperation, and envisioned the Holo Doc laughing at them from inside the
computer, but of course one should ever underestimate the ability of Trek
writers to miss the obvious.

The only real reason I could see for all the fiddling around was that they
wanted a two part episode, not a 15 minute one...  Bleah.

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Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 355 of 584
 From : Kay Shapero                         1:102/524       .ÿò 13 .åí 96 07:50
 To   : Jeff Hancock
 Subj : Realistic space scen
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Sep 10 22:15>, Jeff Hancock (1:106/564) wrote to PHILL ASH:

 JH>I don't know if...
PA>        "Escape From Witch Mountain" (the original, not the

 JH>This qualifies, exactly...  ;)  (and I did read the original, a
 JH>loooooong time ago)

Ever read Zenna Henderson's "The People" stories?  If they didn't inspire WM I
WILL be surprised.  Always gave me the impression they wanted to do same,
couldn't or wouldn't buy the rights, so changed things jusssst enough...  Of
course they may HAVE and I just missed it in the credits.

--- msged 2.06
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Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 356 of 584
 From : Bill Clements                       1:18/230        .ÿò 13 .åí 96 15:44
 To   : Nicolai Shapero
 Subj : SOUND SUPRESSORS
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
From the desk of a cynical old man...

Posted 08 Sep 96 - Nicolai Shapero to Bill Clements

 BC>    9 parts Charcoal                      * Moderator
 BC>    2 parts Sulphur                       * Fuel
 BC>    2 parts Potassium Nitrate (Saltpeter) * Oxidizer

 NS> The way I'd heard it, the proportions were: 75:15:10 (or 15:3:2).
 NS> Slightly different from your proportions.  But that's what horseraces
 NS> are about, i suppose...

I haven't played with black powder since 1960/61. The formula

listed above is from a book on homemade fireworks, if memory
server, circa 1930. It was listed as a general purpose powder
that would loft a mortar round, drive a rocket, or fire a
signal/bursting charge. I never used it in a mortar but I do
remember it going both phhht and bang, or sometimes phhtBANG.

The best I can say for that old formula is that it did work and
that it was _EASY_ to remember ... (36 years isn't too shabby)

Were I seeking to drive a round with black powder I would
start with the above mixture and through empirical testing
tailor it specificialy to the round/barrel combination in use.

--rwc

... "There is only one way to console a widow. But remember the risk." --LL

--- PPoint 2.00 / QWK

--- FLAME v1.1
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 Msg  : 357 of 584
 From : Bill Clements                       1:18/230        .ÿò 13 .åí 96 15:44
 To   : Owen E. Oulton
 Subj : SOUND SUPRESSORS
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
From the desk of a cynical old man...

Posted 09 Sep 96 - Owen E. Oulton to Dave Ewen

BL> The main problem with shooting in a vacuum would be vacuum welding of
BL> action.

OEO> Yep, that would be a problem (of course, if you're in zero gee, recoil
OEO> would also be a problem).  To avoid vacuum welding, I suspect that you'd
OEO> want as much polymer and carbon composite construction as is practicable
OEO> in the weapon, as well as a hard teflon or similar finish on all mating
OEO> metal surfaces,

 DE> What is vacuum welding?

 OE> Metal surfaces which are in contact in a hard vacuum over a period of
 OE> time tend to bond together.  This bond is called a "vacuum weld."  One
 OE> of the more technically or scientifically trained people here can
 OE> likely give you more detail.

Your answer to the Question about vacuum welding corroborates my
thinking on this subject.

_PROLONGED_ exposure to vacuum causes "vacuum welding". Thus
weapons, personal, crew served, or fixed, would not exibit this
problem if they were stored and serviced in atmosphere and "run
out" only when needed.

--rwc

... "Place your clothes and weapons where you can find them in the dark." --LL

--- PPoint 2.00 / QWK

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Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 358 of 584
 From : Bill Clements                       1:18/230        .ÿò 13 .åí 96 15:44
 To   : Todd Sullivan
 Subj : SOUND SUPPRESSORS/SPACE F
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
From the desk of a cynical old man...

Posted 07 Sep 96 - Todd Sullivan to Leman Russ

 LR>  NOW, the real problem with normal type guns in vacc is recoil in low
 LR> gravity. For that, I recomend using gyrojets.

 TS> I doubt it.  Gyros are more expensive than those Glasers you
 TS> mentioned.  It seems to me that they'd be more likely to go with the
 TS> H/K G-11 concept of a fairly massy weapon with lighter bullets.

I suspect that a rocket based round would be quite practical and
inexpensive, even the gyrojet (though spin stabilization isn't
necessary in vacuum), were it mass produced.

--rwc

... "When the ship lifts, all bills are paid. No regrets." --LL

--- PPoint 2.00 / QWK

--- FLAME v1.1
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Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 359 of 584
 From : Ken Mayes                           1:393/7         .cê 15 .åí 96 07:07
 To   : James Dixon
 Subj : Re: Sulu on Voyager
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
        Well, I went back and checked the ending for Star Trek VI. Beltaine was
there at the far left of the picture quite alive and kicking so to speak. No
sign of Tuvok.

        You were right about Spock mentioning in the Brass Briefing that Praxis
had exploded two months before Gorkon's planned summit on Earth, not two days.
And the egg thing with Tuvok went right past me the first time I saw it, but it
should have rang bells in my head. Not too long ago I soundly trounced a friend
who was writing a fan-fic piece which had Spock eating Goat cheese and I pointed
out that hard-core vegetarians not only don't eat meat, but they don't eat
animal products at all, not even milk.

        The thing that bothers me is that none of these gaffs were complicated
esoteric ideals subject to interpretation. They were hard core facts, easy to
verify with a simple viewing of the sixth movie. Why didn't the producers simply
watch the movie and take notes? Why did no one proof-read this script to check
continuity?

        The problems with this episode read like a shopping list for pete's sake
and in my opinion highlight everything that is wrong with Voyager. I can only
hope that the planned episode of DS9 which will digitally composite Sisko and
crew in with the original Trek crew in the episode 'Trouble with Tribbles' will
be done much better. If they try to fiddle with dialogue in the original or
alter the continuity, or digitally alter the Klingons to their TNG appearance, I
think I'll puke.


        Oh and by the way, this was not Kang's first appearance since the
original series. He appeared in the DS9 episode "Blood Oath" along with Kor and
Koloth and yes, both of them had the brow ridges. All in all, that was one of
the better eps of DS9. All three were allowed to shine in that episode, Koloth
as the stuffy old f*rt, Kor as the overwieght alcholic Klingon, and Kang as the
embittered old warrior still following his code of honor.



--- CNet/3
 * Origin: The Bard's Tavern Denton, TX (817)243-5110 USR 28.8   (1:393/7)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 360 of 584
 From : David Johnston                      1:342/14        .cê 15 .åí 96 00:21
 To   : Todd Sullivan
 Subj : B-5
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
-> Just where did you get this inaccurate, libelous drivel?  Not one of
-> those points is correct.

Of course you are right.  Babylon 5s diplomatic efforts were incredibly
useful in preventing international warfare, the Shadows had nothing to
do with the destruction of the previous Babylon stations, and Babylon
isn't a significant commerce center.  I don't know how I could have made
such mistakes.

--- PCBoard (R) v15.21/100
 * Origin: Freddy's Place - Edm. AB - 33.6K (403) 413-3460 (1:342/14)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 361 of 584
 From : David Johnston                      1:342/14        .cê 15 .åí 96 00:57
 To   : Josh Hill
 Subj : Independence Day (bel
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
-> In fact I go to Junior High, seventh grade. I write in my spare time
-> and have finished a full novel (actually it is in the final draft).
-> It

Really?  Is it a science fiction novel?

--- PCBoard (R) v15.21/100
 * Origin: Freddy's Place - Edm. AB - 33.6K (403) 413-3460 (1:342/14)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 362 of 584
 From : Leman Russ                          1:2250/7        .ÿò 06 .åí 96 04:20
 To   : Frank Glover
 Subj : Re: Favourite Trek movie of a
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 In the novelization of trek 4, scotty told mccoy that the guy they giventhe
formula to WAS the inventor on transpearant aluminum.

>:[

--- DLG Pro v1.0/DLGMail
 * Origin: Sage's Tower - Amiga - (618) 259-1844 (1:2250/7)

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 Msg  : 363 of 584
 From : Leman Russ                          1:2250/7        .ÿò 06 .åí 96 04:22
 To   : Bob Klahn
 Subj : Re: FAVOURITE TREK MOVIE
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 You arere so right. The nexus in generations made zero sense. After a mighty
effort that strained my "gifted" IQ (That's what the school psych reports and IQ
tests called it) tothe limit, I came up with an "explanation" forthe nexus in
generations. For the interested few, I post it as follows:

 The nexus was an entity ofof some sort. It could not experience "pleasure" or
"joy" on its own but could feel joy that other sentients felt, thus it gathered
up whatever sentients it could and placedthem in simulated realitied designed to
create joy in that particular creature.

 I presume the same mechanish that let it feel another creatures j9oy let it
determine what made that creature happy.

 The nexus then kept those entities happy and thus felt the joy they
experienced. If an entity, like guinan, left, it made a copy ofthat entity so as
to keep feeling that partiicular joy.

 OK, it's a lame explanation of the nexus. You got a better one?!

Of  course generations was a mess from the word go. Scotty had thought kirk
waalive in TNGs "relics" and yet knew he was :dead: in genraations.

 The federation knew nothing of the borg until Q tossed enterprise D into their
space in TNG, yey Sorans planet was hit by the borg 70 years before.

 No, generations was a mess. they need a hardcore trek fhan in the works to
ensure continuity.

>:

--- DLG Pro v1.0/DLGMail
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 Msg  : 364 of 584
 From : Leman Russ                          1:2250/7        .óá 07 .åí 96 04:31
 To   : Bill Clements
 Subj : Re: SOUND SUPRESSORS
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 BC> I suggest that you considerably broaden the material that you
 BC> read in an effort of self education.

 And I suggest you quit being such a snotty, pompous ass!

>;[

--- DLG Pro v1.0/DLGMail
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 Msg  : 365 of 584
 From : Leman Russ                          1:2250/7        .óá 14 .åí 96 04:36
 To   : James Dixon
 Subj : Re: V: Flashback...
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 I have a few minor contentions with your commets re flashback.

 1. Tuvok eating eggs is not impossible as the eggs were probably replicated
anyway. Locigally there's nothing wrong with eating replicated eggs to a vulcan.

2. As to tuvok being "immortal" it must be remembered that vulcans have Loooong
lives, witnessed by spock and sarek being in TNG.

3. Tuvok is not a "spock clone" as was proven extremely well in "basics part 2".
Tuvok was not at all adverse to fighting the primitive mativesand even shot one
with an arrow.

Contrast this with TOS ep "Gallileo 7" in which spock adamantly refuses to use
deadly force against the primitive natives under any provocation.

 I'm not flaimign you, just expressing my views.

>;[

--- DLG Pro v1.0/DLGMail
 * Origin: Sage's Tower - Amiga - (618) 259-1844 (1:2250/7)

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 Msg  : 366 of 584
 From : Leman Russ                          1:2250/7        .óá 14 .åí 96 04:41
 To   : Wayne Crow
 Subj : Re: Favourite Trek movie of a
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
I think voyager sucks, but the best ep was where Tuvok melded with Suter and had
to deal with the "mental contamination".

>;[

--- DLG Pro v1.0/DLGMail
 * Origin: Sage's Tower - Amiga - (618) 259-1844 (1:2250/7)

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 Msg  : 367 of 584
 From : Leman Russ                          1:2250/7        .óá 14 .åí 96 04:42
 To   : Bob Klahn
 Subj : Re: SF IN GENERAL
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 BK>  The original Twilight Zone series surely.

How dare you fail to mention the original "outer limits"?!?!

:)

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 Msg  : 368 of 584
 From : Kevin Ahearn                        1:109/104       .cê 15 .åí 96 13:36
 To   : Bobby Rissler
 Subj : Klingons
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

BR> Good point.  I never thought of that before.  I think all of the
BR> humanoid species in the trek universe have something in common with
BR> humans.  Its probably how Gene Roddenbury wanted
BR> it.

Come to think of it, wasn't there a TNG episode in which a common genetic link
between humans, Klingons, and...uh...Cardassians, I think...was discovered?

As I recall, it was a pretty god-awful episode, but continuity-wise, I guess it
counts.

--Kevin

--- Maximus/2 3.01
 * Origin: ShanErin (1:109/104)

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 Msg  : 369 of 584
 From : Frank Glover                        1:2613/477      .cê 15 .åí 96 13:33
 To   : Funky Diva
 Subj : B-5
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

FD>   RS> B5 was written differently than most shows. It is meant to be a
FD>   RS> complete novel spanning 5 years, and what we have seen is mostly
FD>  the
FD>
FD>  Does this mean that the writers of B5 already have a definite
FD>  "ending" in
FD>  their minds (how they're going to end the whole story)?  Like for
FD>  example
FD>  as a miniseries does?

   That's essentially it. For that matter, Star Wars was originally envisioned
by Lucas as a large, but finite story, of which we've seen the three `middle'
episodes already....

   Frank


--- QuickBBS 2.85 (Beta-2) GoldBase
 * Origin: The Matrix Data Bank BBS, Rochester, Ny (1:2613/477)

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 Msg  : 370 of 584
 From : Owen E. Oulton                      1:243/45        .cê 15 .åí 96 18:17
 To   : Todd Sullivan
 Subj : Sound Suppressors/Space Firearms
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 TS> You ought to read a few of the magazines.  Ram-Line was
 TS> working on a ceramic and polymer handgun a few years
 TS> ago.  The ceramic was for the barrel.

As I understand it, they did look at the possibility of a ceramic lined barrel,
but the project was shelved.

 TS> I certainly can't see Glock sitting still on this line,
 TS> either.  They pioneered the so-called "plastic gun".

No, they didn't.  Heckler Und Koch pioneered the polymer-framed handgun with
their HK-VP70M and HK-VP70Z, several years before Gaston Glock created his line
of pistols.  I fail to see, however, why you figure that just because Glock
utilises a polymer frame (80% of the mass of the Glock is steel, BTW) they would
automatically be developing a ceramic gun.

CFN, O

--- Maximus 2.01wb
 * Origin: Pandora's Box, Ottawa, Ont. 613-829-1209 (1:243/45)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 371 of 584
 From : Owen E. Oulton                      1:243/45        .cê 15 .åí 96 18:29
 To   : Bill Clements
 Subj : SOUND SUPRESSORS
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 DE> What is vacuum welding?

 OE> Metal surfaces which are in contact in a hard vacuum over a period of
 OE> time tend to bond together.

 BC> _PROLONGED_ exposure to vacuum causes "vacuum welding".

Perhaps you missed part of my sentence above which states "over a period of
time..."  6 of one, 1/2 dozen of the other...

 BC> Thus weapons, personal, crew served, or fixed, would not exibit this
 BC> problem if they were stored and serviced in atmosphere and "run
 BC> out" only when needed.

Except that the process is cumulative and does not reverse itself when you go
back into an atmosphere, although limiting exposure to vacuum would of course
slow the process down.  Best to engineer the weapons specifically to eliminate
the problem in the first place.

CFN, O

--- Maximus 2.01wb
 * Origin: Pandora's Box, Ottawa, Ont. 613-829-1209 (1:243/45)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 372 of 584
 From : Justin Mohareb                      1:249/127       .cê 15 .åí 96 17:56
 To   : Todd Sullivan
 Subj : New Star Wars movies
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 -=> Quoting Todd Sullivan to Justin Mohareb <=-

 JM> Besides, have you SEEN Mark Hamill lately?  He looks about 90 or so.

 TS> He's only a couple years older than I am.  In his SeaQuest
 TS> appearances, he looked rather good, as he did in the
 TS> WorldCon '96 telecast last week.

 I'm not saying he's dead or over the hill. But if they want him to look
 middle aged, he's certainly capable of doing so.  Hell, makeup would be
 pretty much all you'd need to do. But playing the father of the character
 he was playing? That's kind of goofy.

 JM> Years haven't been kind.

 TS> You haven't looked at Demi Moore lately. <G>

Not really. But she's an example of better living through surgery. *:)

JJ Mohareb

... Sheridan & Garibaldi in '96
___ Blue Wave/386 v2.30 [NR]

--- Maximus 2.01wb
 * Origin: *Synthesis*  Kingston, Ont., Canada! (1:249/127)

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 Msg  : 373 of 584
 From : Glenn Shaheen                       1:3600/7        .ÿò 13 .åí 96 15:47
 To   : David Little
 Subj : New Star Wars Movies
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

DL> GS> Star Wars? What's that?

DL>        You are kidding, right?

        Gosh, yes.
-=-
 * OLX 2.2 * Dyslexia for cure found!

--- SLMAIL v3.5C  (#1540)
 * Origin: Robotech  -=-Fansubbed anime available upon request-=- (1:3600/7)

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 Msg  : 374 of 584
 From : Glenn Shaheen                       1:3600/7        .ÿò 13 .åí 96 15:57
 To   : Pierre Amadio
 Subj : Douglas Adams
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

PA>I have been looking a long time at the CD recording of the radio show
PA>before i
PA>actually get them. I first wrote to the BBC shop service in england, but
PA>they didn't sell stuff to stranger country. May be they do it know, try a
PA>mail or an e-mail message (if they have one, but  I guess they have).

        Those arrogant Brits, I tell ya!

PA>If you know someone that goes in england, ask him to go to the BBS and bu
PA>to you the CD. That's how i get it. There is 6 hours of fun waiting for y

        I know somebody from England, maybe he can get it.

-=-
 * OLX 2.2 * I don't have enough taglines.

--- SLMAIL v3.5C  (#1540)
 * Origin: Robotech  -=-Fansubbed anime available upon request-=- (1:3600/7)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 375 of 584
 From : Glenn Shaheen                       1:3600/7        .ÿò 13 .åí 96 16:01
 To   : Bobby Rissler
 Subj : Trek movies
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

BR>   I agree 100%.  Voyager and DS9 could be a little more like the origina
BR>series or The Next Generation.  They take place in the same time period b
BR>they are so different.

        Why bother to have spin-offs if they are going to be the same?
I watch each Trek series as if they are completely unrelated.
-=-
 * OLX 2.2 * <sigh>.It must be nice to be able to improve.

--- SLMAIL v3.5C  (#1540)
 * Origin: Robotech  -=-Fansubbed anime available upon request-=- (1:3600/7)

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 Msg  : 376 of 584
 From : Don Bach                            1:3632/65       .åò 05 .åí 96 18:02
 To   : Ted Stout
 Subj : Favourite Trek movie of all Time
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.GMD: 1:396/1

 TS> what is your favourite Trek movie of all time? I would
 TS> like to see some responses to this question in this
 TS> area.
 TS> I vote for Wrath of Khan.

I too like Khan best.  The first movie and the one with the whales were silly
at times.  Search for Spock is my second choice.  Generations third.

Don


--- Maximus 3.01
 * Origin: No Regrets, Clinton, MS (601)924-8247 9P-5A (1:3632/65)


--- PCBoard (R) v15.3/M 10

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 Msg  : 377 of 584
 From : Kay Shapero                         1:102/524       .óá 14 .åí 96 10:32
 To   : Patty Moniz
 Subj : Japanese SF
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Sep 12 17:56>, Patty Moniz (1:260/388) wrote to JEFF HANCOCK:

 JH> Why not?  It could be.... interesting.  ^_-
 PM>
 PM> Hahaha...  Well, I've noticed a lack of females in this echo.

Oh there are a few of us around...

--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

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 Msg  : 378 of 584
 From : Mark Jones                          1:105/302.47    .óá 14 .åí 96 00:46
 To   : David Little
 Subj : New Star Wars movies
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On (11 Sep 96) David Little wrote to Bobby Rissler...

 DL> I *SEVERLY* doubt it. Why don't you try talking directly to Steve
 DL> Perry or Steven Sansweet. You might also try reading "The Making
 DL> of SOTE" and it will confirm that they will not make it into a
 DL> movie.

    You're exactly right.  I've spoken to Steve Perry a couple of
time (he lives here in the Portland area).  Shadows of Empire takes
place *between* EMPIRE STRIKES BACK and RETURN OF THE JEDI and is
intended to "fill in" the story between those two films.
    It was never intended to be filmed as a movie (though I don't
think they've missed a single other form of media...).


--- PPoint 1.78
 * Origin: Folcroft Sanitarium (hsmith@cure.com) (1:105/302.47)

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 Msg  : 379 of 584
 From : Richard Sarner                      1:271/236       .cê 15 .åí 96 10:30
 To   : Funky Diva
 Subj : B-5
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE 1.11+
In a message to Richard Sarner <09-13-96 19:54> Funky Diva wrote:

FD=> Does this mean that the writers of B5 already have a definite
FD=> "ending" in
FD=> their minds (how they're going to end the whole story)?  Like for

 Yes. jms, the Executive Producer, concieved the series, and wrote all of the
stories for the third season (whew!) He had an outline for the course of the
show, some things have changed, but the main structure is the same.

...Richard

--- GEcho 1.11+
 * Origin: THE TIME MACHINE (804)599-6401 TRAVEL THE PORTALS! (1:271/236)

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 Msg  : 380 of 584
 From : Keith Stokes                        1:280/429       .cê 15 .åí 96 07:43
 To   : Chris Dixon
 Subj : New Star Wars Movies
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On 09-02-96, Chris Dixon said over a beer to All:

 CD> Has anyone heard anything about the new Star Wars Trilogy
 CD> that's supposed to me in the making?

Someone else can better answer about the new trilogy, but I wanted to pass
along, they are preparing a new release of the original trilogy, they are adding
some new material, adding some footage that was cut the first time, and redoing
some of the original scenes. For example: the early scene in which Imperial
troopers are in the desert, the huge creatures being rode by some of the
troopers will move, instead of just standing still.

The amount of stuff bring re-worked keeps growing. They do one scene and then
they see how good it is and decide to do another.

  Keith

--- FMail 1.20
 * Origin: ¨ Diehard's Bar and Grill ¨ Lenexa, KS ¨ (913)438-7286 ¨ (1:280/429)

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 Msg  : 381 of 584
 From : Keith Stokes                        1:280/429       .cê 15 .åí 96 07:49
 To   : Earl Green
 Subj : B5 wins the Hugo!
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On 09-05-96, Earl Green said over a beer to All:

 EG> As you may or may not have already heard, Babylon 5 has won
 EG> the Hugo for
 EG> Best Dramatic Presentation with the episode "The Coming of
 EG> Shadows."  It

The people sitting behind me almost broke my eardrums when it was
announced. It received the biggest response of any of the Hugo winners.

   Keith
--- FMail 1.20
 * Origin: ¨ Diehard's Bar and Grill ¨ Lenexa, KS ¨ (913)438-7286 ¨ (1:280/429)

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 Msg  : 382 of 584
 From : Kay Shapero                         1:102/524       .cê 15 .åí 96 11:46
 To   : Todd Sullivan
 Subj : B-5
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Sep 12 16:45>, Todd Sullivan (1:202/720.3) wrote to David Johnston:

 DJ> of agreement.  Now, it's primarily a center for a conspiratorial effort
 DJ> to organise against the insidious forces of darkness.

 DJ> The first three were destroyed by servants of the Enemy.  The fourth
 DJ> "mysteriously vanished" because it was moved through time to be used
 DJ> for
 DJ> someone's purpose against the Enemy.  They kept trying because the
 DJ> Minbari and the Vorlons, the two most powerful known races, insisted,
 DJ> and because Earth would gain tremendous prestige and wealth from
 DJ> getting
 DJ> it to work.  (The wealth comes because B-5 is also a trans-shipment
 DJ> point at a particularly strategic neutral location.)

 TS>Just where did you get this inaccurate, libelous drivel?  Not one
 TS>of those points is correct.

Er... Todd?  Currently the place IS serving as a center of resistance to the
Shadows (though it may well be the guy stopped watching before the break with
Earth),  the first three were destroyed (and the humans who did it may well have
been connected with the Shadows... even if they didn't know it yet), the fourth
WAS moved through time to serve as a base against the Shadows, and while I don't
think the Vorlons were directly involved the Minbari certainly were invoved
monetarily and otherwise in the construction of B5 (enough so that they had
final approval of the station commander), and yes, it did bring prestige to
Earth.  Dunno about the wealth part - at the moment I gather the station is
turning enough of a profit to keep going even cut off from Earth.

And I've been watching the show since The Gathering...

--- msged 2.06
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 Msg  : 383 of 584
 From : Kay Shapero                         1:102/524       .cê 15 .åí 96 12:01
 To   : Funky Diva
 Subj : B-5
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Sep 13 19:54>, Funky Diva (6:720/1415) wrote to Richard Sarner:

 FD>Does this mean that the writers of B5 already have a definite
 FD>"ending" in their minds (how they're going to end the whole story)?
 FD>Like for example as a miniseries does?

Exactly.  The whole thing has been plotted out; loosely enough to allow for
individual variation but tightly enough that there's a beginning, middle and
end, plus character development threads, and other continuing themes and plot
threads.  It's a novel for television, each episode being a chapter, authored by
a man by the name of J. Michael Straczinsky.  In fact he even went so far as to
personally write every single script for the third season, something nobody has
ever done before.  (Nor is likely to do again, I suspect - he compared the whole
experience to tapdancing while they throw chainsaws at you. :->)  When he
doesn't write the episode, he does tell the writers what elements go in it.

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 Msg  : 384 of 584
 From : Kay Shapero                         1:102/524       .cê 15 .åí 96 22:38
 To   : Kay Shapero
 Subj : B-5
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Sep 15 12:01>, Kay Shapero (1:102/524) wrote to Funky Diva:

 KS>television, each episode being a chapter, authored by a man by
 KS>the name of J. Michael Straczinsky.  In fact he even went so far

                                ^^^^^^
Oops; that's Straczynski.  Ok, so I can't spel... :->

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 Msg  : 385 of 584
 From : David Little                        1:106/7315      .cê 15 .åí 96 12:57
 To   : Bobby Rissler
 Subj : New Star Wars movies
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
-=< Bobby Rissler used the Jedi Mind Trick on me!>=-

 DL>         I *SEVERLY* doubt it. Why don't you try talking directly to Steve
 DL> Perry or Steven Sansweet. You might also try reading
 DL> "The Making of SOTE" and
 DL> it will confirm that they will not make it into a movie.
 BR> I was there when they were talking about the movie and all.  This
 BR> was about two weeks ago.  If you would have been at a convention where
 BR> they gave this presentation you would have heard the same thing.

        If you asked the people in this echo, namely the moderators, they
will tell you STOE will not be made into a movie.

                                        -=The DoLittle 8-)=-


... STAR WARS FIDONET ECHO...Massing near Sullust...
--- Blue Wave/DOS v2.30 [NR]
 * Origin: The Wizards Realm BBS 1-713-946-7315 1:106/7315 (1:106/7315)

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 Msg  : 386 of 584
 From : Bruce Clark                         1:105/314       .óá 14 .åí 96 19:42
 To   : Jeff Hancock
 Subj : Japanese SF
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12  91-0012

-=> Quoting Jeff Hancock to Henry Triplett <=-


 JH> -!- SLMAIL v3.5C  (#1540)

 JH>  ! Origin: Robotech  -=-Fansubbed anime available upon request-=-

 JH> (1:3600/7)

Could I get the phone number for the Robotech BBS?

Thank you.


___ Blue Wave/386 v2.21

--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12
 * Origin: COM-DAT BBS  (1:105/314.0)

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 Msg  : 387 of 584
 From : James Dixon                         1:2604/309      .cê 15 .åí 96 18:59
 To   : Bob Klahn
 Subj : V: FLASHBACK...
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

BK> JD> states... Then again Tuvok rounded this whole era down to "approximatel
BK> JD> 80 years ago" when, Treknically, it's 82 years ago... For what it's

BK> Whereas a TOS vulcan would have given you the exact number of years, months
BK> and days.

Could be... I'm just happy he didn't otherwise I'd've had a headache
with my chronology project...


 * OLXWin 1.00a * TREK9.ZIP @ http://www.sas.upenn.edu/~azion


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 Msg  : 388 of 584
 From : James Dixon                         1:2604/309      .cê 15 .åí 96 19:01
 To   : Ken Mayes
 Subj : Re: Sulu on Voyager
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

KM>        Well, I went back and checked the ending for Star Trek VI. Beltaine
KM>there at the far left of the picture quite alive and kicking so to speak. No
KM>sign of Tuvok.

Yah, makes me think that maybe that scene with the Azure Nebula battle
may have occurred after ST VI... Impossible to tell the way Mr. Vulcan's
jumbled his memory...

KM>        You were right about Spock mentioning in the Brass Briefing that Pra
KM>had exploded two months before Gorkon's planned summit on Earth, not two day

Yah, he's crunched it all down... Days instead of months... And Spock
arranged the meeting a full month between the Praxis explosion and the
remainder of ST VI... TPTB don't much care for continuity...

KM>And the egg thing with Tuvok went right past me the first time I saw it, but
KM>should have rang bells in my head. Not too long ago I soundly trounced a fri
KM>who was writing a fan-fic piece which had Spock eating Goat cheese and I
KM>pointed out that hard-core vegetarians not only don't eat meat, but they don
KM>eat animal products at all, not even milk.

Maybe we can write this one off to Tuvok not being your average Vulcan,
and the situation the Voyager's in... Eggs are still a source of
nutrition (okay, okay...they could easily grow fruits and
vegetables!)...

KM>        The thing that bothers me is that none of these gaffs were complicat
KM>esoteric ideals subject to interpretation. They were hard core facts, easy t
KM>verify with a simple viewing of the sixth movie. Why didn't the producers
KM>simply watch the movie and take notes? Why did no one proof-read this script
KM>check continuity?

It's nothing new... They make blunders like this all the time, more so
with Voyager than with DS9... I guess they figure they can rewrite Trek
history and hope that us fans won't notice (just like with Klingon
ridges)... The novelization of "Flashback" at least has some extras
chucked in, like what I take to be Nichelle Nichols' communique with the
Excelsior which was written out...

KM>        The problems with this episode read like a shopping list for pete's
KM>sake and in my opinion highlight everything that is wrong with Voyager. I ca
KM>only hope that the planned episode of DS9 which will digitally composite Sis
KM>and crew in with the original Trek crew in the episode 'Trouble with Tribble
KM>will be done much better. If they try to fiddle with dialogue in the origina
KM>or alter the continuity, or digitally alter the Klingons to their TNG
KM>appearance, I think I'll puke.

This is exactly what I'm worrying about... I feel that they're bound to
do Something nasty and drastic for the sake of bringing TOS "up to
date"... Heck, giving Kang ridges in "Flashback" for the brief time he
appeared was pointless... With this tribble episode, most of the action
I should think would take place on K-7--are they going to "rebuild" the
model and soup it up for the sake of newcomer 90s Trek fans? Are they
going to "ridge" the Klingons? I fear that they might not even get the
bright color schemes correct and will simply adjust the footage...

Then there's talk about an episode where the Voyager goes back to Earth
of 1996 (anyone wanna place bets on the Eugenics Wars being 100%
ignored?)...

KM>        Oh and by the way, this was not Kang's first appearance since the
KM>original series. He appeared in the DS9 episode "Blood Oath" along with Kor
KM>Koloth and yes, both of them had the brow ridges. All in all, that was one o
KM>the better eps of DS9. All three were allowed to shine in that episode, Kolo
KM>as the stuffy old f*rt, Kor as the overwieght alcholic Klingon, and Kang as
KM>embittered old warrior still following his code of honor.

Yah, but it was also over a century after TOS where the Klingons were
expected to be different (i.e. Aged--Dr. McCoy with his white hair and
wrinkles galore in "Encounter at Farpoint" was significantly different
from the way he appeared in the 23rd Century)... The problem I had with
"Blood Oath" was the way in which these TOS Klingons were physically and
Mentally changed into TNG Klingons...


 * OLXWin 1.00a * James T. Dixon...Don't you read Trek History?


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 Msg  : 389 of 584
 From : James Dixon                         1:2604/309      .cê 15 .åí 96 20:02
 To   : Joey Haven
 Subj : Re: Favourite Trek movie
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

JH> LC> The Nomad episode is called "The Changeling". Large parts of the V'ger
JH> LC> storyline from ST:TMP appear to be lifted wholesale from the TOS
JH> LC> episode "The Changeling".

JH>     Agreed! The logic used in "The Changeling" was what appealed to me
JH>     and is what is missing in ST these days. In a world with TV shows
JH>     expounding the benefits of slang, misinformation and unprovoked
JH>     violence ST always seemed to imply that using your brain would be
JH>     of most benefit to yourself. I credit ST with my fascination with
JH>     science in general.   <picking-up my Soap Box now ;) >

Missing logic? That's just one tiny facet of what's missing these
days... Quite simply the writing Stinks and is stagnant--all these
writers (so Few of them today writing the scripts!) do is recycle old
TOS and TNG plots using the newer characters, chuck in Lots of idiotic
technobabble for filler, and have the FX team spice up the remainder
with space battles and fitting pyrotechnics... And to make it seem a
bit more classy, a drama, they write some soapy weeping episodes which
border on soaps (DS9 in particular)... Why? Well, these writers are Not
SF writers and have very little comprehension of good SF (unlike with
TOS where a few veteran SF authors penned episodes)... The writers are
in fact the directors and, in some cases, the creators of Voyager and
DS9...

TOS was a true character study, emphasizing the interaction of Kirk
(the body), Spock (the mind), and McCoy (the soul)...WITH that sense of
exploration and adventure, contact with unique alien civilizations...
And all integrated into a "message" theme which frequently commented on
our own Humanity...

99% of this has been blown away, replaced by FX, space battles,
technobabble, and (when it comes down to analysing them) Idiotic
storylines... Voyager in particular stresses credibility beyond the
limit... I've been finding Babylon 5 to be closer to the original
series, in a way...


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 Msg  : 390 of 584
 From : James Dixon                         1:2604/309      .cê 15 .åí 96 20:13
 To   : Brandon Wolgast
 Subj : Homeboys
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

BW>Well, okay, everyone hates it... but I like it. =)  The only two things
BW>they need to get rid is the terrible fake laugh track and that annoying
BW>as nothing else computer.  Aside from that Homeboys in Outer Space is
BW>hilarious.  It won't last, I know, but it is funny.  Aside from Babylon
BW>5 it is the only other quality sci-fi show on television I should say.

BW>Even the titles are hilarious, "The Pleasure Planet Phalopia: G Marks
BW>the Spot."  I still laugh just thinking of it.

BW>People here don't seem to get it is SUPPOSED to be stupid, it's suppoed
BW>to be kinda (or very) "cheesy," its not quality, of course it's not. But
BW>for 30 minutes a week, it's refreshing and fun to watch.

You've got to be kidding! The series is S-T-U-P-I-D... It's aimed at
low-lifes who think SF is a big hairy joke... Nothing in it could make
me laugh... If I wanna watch an SF comedy I'll watch a Real comedy
like Red Dwarf or an episode from the Hitch Hikers Guide to the Galaxy
tv series... Even that dreadful Come Back Mrs. Noah bomb was funnier
than this...

Homeboys is an example of modern-day blaxploitation, but anyhow... If
you want to start a Really messy flame thread out of this, here's a
doozy...

IS HOMEBOYS IN OUTER SPACE A PART OF THE "CANON" TREK UNIVERSE?

Don't laugh (yet!)...

1. It's set in the 23rd Century and the first episode features Scotty,
played by Jimmy Doohan himself as a chief engineer (it could be set
after ST VI and the opening of "Generations" but right before his
Jenolan trip, say around late 2293)...

2. There's references to other Trek Universe items, notably Dilithium
Crystals are spoken of...

3. In a recent episode, a Tribble is featured!

4. I could've sworn I saw a Bolian in that bar...

OK, go ahead and laugh...it Was a stupid passing thought...



 * OLXWin 1.00a * Creation: Soon to be only Official Canon conventions!


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 Msg  : 391 of 584
 From : James Dixon                         1:2604/309      .cê 15 .åí 96 20:22
 To   : Kay Shapero
 Subj : Re: Klingons
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

KS> OE>I still like Kor...  Seeing the Three Klingeteers (Kor, Koloth
KS> OE>and Kang) together again for the first time in Blood Oath was a
KS> OE>real treat.

KS> KS> Missed that one - I'll have to read it.  Was Mara around too?

KS> OE>Read it?  How do you read a TV episode - closed captioning?  <G>

KS>Sorry - I thought I'd seen that title on a Trek novel at the bookstore.  I'v
KS>only seen about half of DS9 in any case - they show it during the time when
KS>put my kid to bed, and while Nicolai has taped a lot of them, I don't always
KS>have time to watch them during the day either.  I'll have to check and see i
KS>we've got it around here somewhere.

I think Mara's fate was given in at least one Trek book... Star Trek:
The New Voyages, one of the two old anthologies, in the story called
"The Procrustean Petard"... It was also touched upon in a follow-up
novel (of sorts) called "Pawns and Symbols" as I recall... Both were set
late in the 5 year mission, and that's the last we heard of Kang until
"Blood Oath"...



 * OLXWin 1.00a * Excelsior Class: Space Control Ship/Battleship/Heavy Cruiser


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 Msg  : 392 of 584
 From : Bill Hedrick                        1:282/26        .îí 16 .åí 96 11:22
 To   : James Dixon
 Subj : Re: V: Flashback...
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
In a message dated 09-12-96 JAMES DIXON wrote to  ALL:

 JD>  Then again Tuvok rounded this whole era down to "approximately 80
 JD> years ago" when, Treknically, it's 82 years ago..

That's right James! "approximately 80 years ago" DOES NOT mean 82 years ago.
We can not allow Trek characters the same latitude in speech that we allow
regular
people! They have to be perfect!

Ciao,
  BILL

 -> Alice4Mac 2.4 E QWK Eval:22Mar96

--- RA 1.11+/GEcho 1.02+
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 Msg  : 393 of 584
 From : Frank Glover                        1:2613/477      .îí 16 .åí 96 22:45
 To   : Kevin Ahearn
 Subj : Re: Klingons
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

KA>  Come to think of it, wasn't there a TNG episode in which a common
KA>  genetic link between humans, Klingons, and...uh...Cardassians, I
KA>  think...was discovered?

   It was called `The Chase.' And an original Trek episode (whose name escapes
me) with the disembodied minds that made temporary use of the bodies of Kirk,
Spock, and a woman played by Diana Muldar* hinted at this.... (McCoy: "I've
always wondered why there are so many humanoid races in the galaxy.")

   Frank

   * Diana also played a blind esper in another episode, and doctor on the
Enterprise-D when Gates McFadden went away to do other things for a while.


--- QuickBBS 2.85 (Beta-2) GoldBase
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 Msg  : 394 of 584
 From : Frank Glover                        1:2613/477      .îí 16 .åí 96 22:51
 To   : James Dixon
 Subj : Re: Sulu on Voyager
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

JD>  ridges)... The novelization of "Flashback" at least has some extras
JD>  chucked in, like what I take to be Nichelle Nichols' communique with
JD>  the
JD>  Excelsior which was written out...

   It was originally supposed to be in the episode. But I gather Nichelle had a
problem with the size of her part, and chose not to be there. Too bad. I haven't
read the novelization, but I'd like to think Uhura went on to command a
Comm-station like Epsilon-9, the one that got trashed by V'ger....

   Frank


--- QuickBBS 2.85 (Beta-2) GoldBase
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 Msg  : 395 of 584
 From : David Johnston                      1:342/14        .îí 16 .åí 96 01:02
 To   : Leman Russ
 Subj : Re: Favourite Trek Movie
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
-> Of  course generations was a mess from the word go. Scotty had
-> thought kirk waalive in TNGs "relics" and yet knew he was :dead: in
-> genraations.

He did not.  Consider, Kirk had mysteriously vanished without a trace in
the vicinity of Yet Another Space Time Anomaly.  That happened before,
and Kirk reappeared, despite being considered dead.  Scott would have
been totally justified in assuming that Kirk would one day reappear...as
in fact was the case.  That's without even considering Scotts
considerable age, and the ordeal that he had just endured, both of which
had the potential to mess with his memory.


-> The nexus then kept those entities happy and thus felt the joy they
-> experienced. If an entity, like guinan, left, it made a copy ofthat
-> entity so a to keep feeling that partiicular joy.

-> OK, it's a lame explanation of the nexus. You got a better one?!

The nexus is magic land where your wishes come true and time does not
exist.  Because time does not exist, you can talk to people who used to
be there, even if by the outside world's reckoning that person is no
longer there.

-> The federation knew nothing of the borg until Q tossed enterprise D
-> into their space in TNG, yey Sorans planet was hit by the borg 70
-> years before.

Soran's planet was not part of the Federation.  From the Federation's
point of view, a whole bunch of refugees showed up, announced that their
world had been wiped out by alien attackers.  This is pretty routine
stuff in that universe, worlds full of sentient life get wiped out all
the time.  Why would the crew of the Enterprise remember this bit of
genocidal trivia?

--- PCBoard (R) v15.21/100
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 Msg  : 396 of 584
 From : David Johnston                      1:342/14        .îí 16 .åí 96 01:06
 To   : Leman Russ
 Subj : Re: V: Flashback...
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
-> I have a few minor contentions with your commets re flashback.
-> 1. Tuvok eating eggs is not impossible as the eggs were probably
-> replicated anyway. Locigally there's nothing wrong with eating
-> replicated eggs to a vulcan

They weren't replicated.


-> 2. As to tuvok being "immortal" it must be remembered that vulcans
-> have Loooong lives, witnessed by spock and sarek being in TNG.

Long lives yes.  But they don't go 80 years without perceptible aging.
They only have a natural lifespan of 300 years or so, after all.
However, this something along the lines of Picard's experiencing the
events of his youth, while we see his present age on screen.

--- PCBoard (R) v15.21/100
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Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 397 of 584
 From : David Little                        1:106/7315      .îí 16 .åí 96 08:18
 To   : Glenn Shaheen
 Subj : New Star Wars Movies
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
-=< Glenn Shaheen used the Jedi Mind Trick on me!>=-

 DL> GS> Star Wars? What's that?
 DL>        You are kidding, right?
 GS> Gosh, yes.

        Believe it or not, I have run into people that have not seen anything
relating to SW...I was just making sure!

                                        -=The DoLittle 8-)=-


... STAR WARS FIDONET ECHO...It is your destiny...
--- Blue Wave/DOS v2.30 [NR]
 * Origin: The Wizards Realm BBS 1-713-946-7315 1:106/7315 (1:106/7315)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 398 of 584
 From : David Little                        1:106/7315      .îí 16 .åí 96 08:20
 To   : Mark Jones
 Subj : New Star Wars movies
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
-=< Mark Jones used the Jedi Mind Trick on me!>=-

 DL> I *SEVERLY* doubt it. Why don't you try talking directly to Steve
 DL> Perry or Steven Sansweet. You might also try reading "The Making
 DL> of SOTE" and it will confirm that they will not make it into a
 DL> movie.
 MJ> You're exactly right.  I've spoken to Steve Perry a couple of
 MJ> time (he lives here in the Portland area).  Shadows of Empire takes
 MJ> place *between* EMPIRE STRIKES BACK and RETURN OF THE JEDI and is
 MJ> intended to "fill in" the story between those two films.
 MJ> It was never intended to be filmed as a movie (though I don't
 MJ> think they've missed a single other form of media...).

        I have yet to see a T-shirt or Bumper sticker...

                                        -=The DoLittle 8-)=-


... STAR WARS FIDONET ECHO...MY Schwartz is as big as yours!
--- Blue Wave/DOS v2.30 [NR]
 * Origin: The Wizards Realm BBS 1-713-946-7315 1:106/7315 (1:106/7315)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 399 of 584
 From : Mark Jones                          1:105/302.47    .cê 15 .åí 96 01:08
 To   : David Johnston
 Subj : V: Flashback...
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On (14 Sep 96) David Johnston wrote to James Dixon...

 DJ> I agree. First of all, that wasn't a virus, it was a demon. And
 DJ> by removing the repressed memories, they removed a real
 DJ> opportunity to learn something more about Tuvok's history. I
 DJ> thought that the connection between the two events is that they
 DJ> would have been both covered up, hidden from Star Fleet and his
 DJ> parents. In fact, I suspect the original script read this way and
 DJ> they changed it at the last moment because it would have made
 DJ> Tuvok imperfekt.

 That would certainly have been a better idea than some stupid virus
hiding in the brain as a repressed memory!

  Speaking of which, just how intelligent *is* this virus?  It's
clever enough to leap from the dying lieutenant to Tuvok in the mere
moments before the guy croaks.  How does it get from brainstem to
brainstem so incredibly quickly?  And why doesn't it just spread at
every opportunity anyhow--nobody would know, after all, since they're
busy "repressing" this "memory".
  That would be a much better survival mechanism than waiting until
your host falls over.

  On the other hand, I was nice to hear Janeway *admit* what many fans
(myself included) have been thinking for years--the Federation of TNG
and Voyager is a pale imitation of the Federation of years past.
They're so politically correct, so hellbent on being sweet, bland and
unreasonably reasonable that nobody with any real gumption (i.e.,
Kirk, Spock, McCoy, Scotty, or Sulu) could be tolerated--they'd have
to be purged (err, um, thrown out).
  The only problem was that it was clearly intended that we understand
that today's Federation is morally superior to Kirk & Co.'s
Federation; there's no room for two-fisted, rule-bending cowboys any
longer.  Such juvenile behavior is no longer necessary or desirable,
y'see.
  Blech.  That sort of behavior (and the writing of same) is what made
Trek the cash machine that it is today.  And the lack of it is what is
eroding Voyager's ratings and will likely kill the golden goose if
they don't figure that out.


--- PPoint 1.78
 * Origin: Folcroft Sanitarium (hsmith@cure.com) (1:105/302.47)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 400 of 584
 From : Star Hawk                           1:362/708.6     .óá 14 .åí 96 13:31
 To   : Owen E. Oulton
 Subj : Star Cops
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

--> Note:

Moved (from: BAD_MSGS) by Peg Smarekar using timEd.

From my perch I saw this come out of the gravity well from Owen E. Oulton:

  [> Owen E. Oulton [> Some time ago, I was discussing the British SF
  [> cop show Star Cops with someone here.  Could that person (or
  [> anyone, for that matter) please post a full list of the episodes
  [> in order?

Star Cops

     An Instinct for Murder                    by Chris Boucher
     Converstions with the Dead                by Chris Boucher
     Intelligent Listening for Beginners       by Chris Boucher
     Trivial Games and Paranoid Pursuits       by Chris Boucher
     This Case to be Opened in a Million Years by Philip Martin
     In Warm Blood                             by John Collee
     A Double Life                             by John Collee
     Other People's Secrets                    by John Collee
     Little Green Men and Other Martians       by Chris Boucher

     I recorded the episodes when they were shown on one of the PBS stations a
long time back.

                                        Star Hawk, the EchoTrickster

--- MacWoof Eval:23Dec93
 * Origin: William Bull Hedrick @ Hawk Haven's Orbital Point (1:362/708.6)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 401 of 584
 From : Bob Klahn                           1:234/2         .îí 16 .åí 96 18:31
 To   : James Dixon
 Subj : SF IN GENERAL
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
BK>> B5 absolutely.

BK>> The original Twilight Zone series surely.

 JD> Well, I wouldn't consider the original Twilight Zone to be science
 JD> fiction... It was mostly supernatural/psychological drama... When they

 The supernatural might otherwise be called fantasy. I consider it more
 alternate reality for the most part. There was quite a bit of SF, though
 heavy on the psychological. I consider it thought provoking SF.

 JD> did touch upon SF, it was generally flawed (i.e. using Galaxy
 JD> synonymously with Star System)...

 If you reject it for that you have to throw out Star Wars, Star Trek, (all
 incarnations), well, just about every pop Sci Fi series and movie.

 And if you ask what's wrong with that.....I won't be the least surprised.

 JD> Now, The Outer Limits, on the other hand, was first-rate SF for the most
 JD> part...

 The outer limits was pretty good, but I preferred the T.Z.


BOB KLAHN   bob.klahn@toltbbs.com

... Instant shaman:  add one drum and beat slowly.
 * Silver Xpress V4.3P RB10275

--- FLAME v1.1
 * Origin: Telnet toltbbs.com or call 313-854-6001, Boardwatch #55 (1:234/2)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 402 of 584
 From : Bob Klahn                           1:234/2         .îí 16 .åí 96 18:31
 To   : Leman Russ
 Subj : FAVOURITE TREK MOVIE
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 LR>  "explanation" forthe nexus in generations. For the interested few, I
 LR>  post it as follows:

 LR>  The nexus was an entity ofof some sort. It could not experience

 ...

 LR>  The nexus then kept those entities happy and thus felt the joy they
 LR> experienced. If an entity, like guinan, left, it made a copy ofthat
 LR> entity so as to keep feeling that partiicular joy.

 LR>  OK, it's a lame explanation of the nexus. You got a better one?!

 Yeah, they were a bunch of goof balls who hate SF and were only interested
 in the money.

 LR> Of  course generations was a mess from the word go. Scotty had thought
 LR> kirk was alive in TNGs "relics" and yet knew he was :dead: in
 LR> genraations.

 Hey, I had missed that one all together.

 LR>  The federation knew nothing of the borg until Q tossed enterprise D
 LR>  into their space in TNG, yey Sorans planet was hit by the borg 70
 LR>  years before.

 I'm missing a lot here. Maybe because I was so busy being bored with it I
 couldn't be bothered to pay attention that closely.

 LR>  No, generations was a mess. they need a hardcore trek fhan in the
 LR>  works to ensure continuity.
>>:

 A real fan is the answer to many of the series problems.

BOB KLAHN   bob.klahn@toltbbs.com

... CIA Motto: In God we trust, all others we polygraph.
 * Silver Xpress V4.3P RB10275

--- FLAME v1.1
 * Origin: Telnet toltbbs.com or call 313-854-6001, Boardwatch #55 (1:234/2)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 403 of 584
 From : Bob Klahn                           1:234/2         .îí 16 .åí 96 18:31
 To   : Leman Russ
 Subj : SF IN GENERAL
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 BK>>  The original Twilight Zone series surely.

 LR> How dare you fail to mention the original "outer limits"?!?!

 I much preferred the TZ.

BOB KLAHN   bob.klahn@toltbbs.com

... A soft word never yet broke a tooth.  Irish Proverb *
 * Silver Xpress V4.3P RB10275

--- FLAME v1.1
 * Origin: Telnet toltbbs.com or call 313-854-6001, Boardwatch #55 (1:234/2)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 404 of 584
 From : Ted Stout                           1:270/435       .cê 15 .åí 96 17:23
 To   : Wayne Crow
 Subj : Favourite Trek movie of a
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
My favourite episode is one in which Lt. Worf is discommidated by the Klingon
empire.
Ted

--- Maximus 3.01
 * Origin: The Good News BBS  Bowmansville, PA (1:270/435)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 405 of 584
 From : Ken Mayes                           1:393/7         .òp 17 .åí 96 08:47
 To   : James Dixon
 Subj : Re: Homeboys
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On Sun 15-Sep-1996  8:13p, James Dixon said to Brandon Wolgast:

JD> IS HOMEBOYS IN OUTER SPACE A PART OF THE "CANON" TREK UNIVERSE?


        Oh please, say it ain't so!


        If Roddenberry wasn't spinning in his grave before, I'm sure he is now.
Jeeze Louise.

        I've got a bigger question. Is Voyager a part of the 'Cannon' Trek
universe? So far, I'd venture that there are more blatant contradictions between
it and the rest of Trek than there are between Homeboys and the rest of Trek.
Scary thought, huh?



--- CNet/3
 * Origin: The Bard's Tavern Denton, TX (817)243-5110 USR 28.8   (1:393/7)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 406 of 584
 From : Owen E. Oulton                      1:243/45        .òp 17 .åí 96 19:21
 To   : Star Hawk
 Subj : Star Cops
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 OEO> Some time ago, I was discussing the British SF cop show Star Cops with
 OEO> someone here.  Could that person (or anyone, for that matter) please
 OEO> post a full list of the episodes in order?

 SH> Star Cops

 SH>      Trivial Games and Paranoid Pursuits       by Chris Boucher

 SH> I recorded the episodes when they were shown on one of the PBS stations a
 SH> long time back.

 SH>                                         Star Hawk, the EchoTrickster

Hmmm.  Looks like I'm only missing the one episode listed above, and I just
found 21 more of his ole Beta tapes yet to be catalogued.  Hopefully the missing
one is on one of them.

Thanks, Bill.

CFN, O

--- Maximus 2.01wb
 * Origin: Pandora's Box, Ottawa, Ont. 613-829-1209 (1:243/45)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 407 of 584
 From : James Dixon                         1:2604/309      .îí 16 .åí 96 18:36
 To   : Leman Russ
 Subj : Re: V: Flashback...
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

LR> I have a few minor contentions with your commets re flashback.

LR> 1. Tuvok eating eggs is not impossible as the eggs were probably replicated
LR>anyway. Locigally there's nothing wrong with eating replicated eggs to a
LR>vulcan.

They weren't replicated eggs... You remember all that talk over
replicator rations and all... For the record, they were Porakan eggs
picked up by Neelix on Porakas IV ("the most flavorful eggs in the
sector!")... Though he did have to sterilize them in a cryostatic
chamber (whatever that is) for three days, and then each one of them had
to be parboiled inside the shell...

LR>2. As to tuvok being "immortal" it must be remembered that vulcans have Looo
LR>lives, witnessed by spock and sarek being in TNG.

I know, I know... The Making of Star Trek gives them a life span of 250
years, and the old Star Fleet Medical Manual agrees... But still and
all, we're talking about a Vulcan who's about 111 years old and didn't
look the least bit different when he was 29 years old... Compare this to
Spock and Sarek... By the time of the films, Spock was Noticably aged
from TOS (wrinkles! Look at Boris Vallejo's old Trek novel covers--he
Loves to emphasize them!)... Of course, Spock's not a fair example since
he's a Human hybrid and perhaps those Human traits might affect his
aging processes... But Sarek on the other hand, compare him in ST III to
"Journey to Babel"... Heck, let's not forget his appearance in ST V
during Spock's birth...

LR>3. Tuvok is not a "spock clone" as was proven extremely well in "basics part
LR>2". Tuvok was not at all adverse to fighting the primitive mativesand even s
LR>one with an arrow.

Still, there will inevitably be comparisons (he almost Sounds like Spock
on occassion!)... Naturally, he's a Security Chief and not a Science
Officer so the comparison ends there...more or less... So naturally he
Should be concerned with the well-being of his crewmen...

LR>Contrast this with TOS ep "Gallileo 7" in which spock adamantly refuses to u
LR>deadly force against the primitive natives under any provocation.

See above... Spock is more a typical Vulcan (or rather he tries to be,
probably to compensate for his hybrid heritage)... Probably models
himself after Surak...

LR> I'm not flaimign you, just expressing my views.
LR>>;[

Yah, iff I wanted flames, I'd return to the TREK, DS9, and TNG
conferences... Where, I dare say, what you said would be considered a
flame and everything I said would be considered a flame (mainly
because I disagree with the majority over "Flashback's" rating)...



 * OLXWin 1.00a * Franz Joseph*Michael McMaster*Geoffrey Mandel*Todd Guenther


--- WM v3.10/93-0747
 * Origin: Plain Brown Wrapper BBS-Cresskill NJ.(201)569-6685  (1:2604/309)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 408 of 584
 From : James Dixon                         1:2604/309      .îí 16 .åí 96 19:04
 To   : Leman Russ
 Subj : Re: Favourite Trek movie
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

LR>I think voyager sucks, but the best ep was where Tuvok melded with Suter and
LR>had to deal with the "mental contamination".

I think "Caretaker" was the best... It at least tried to kickoff a new
Trek series in an original way (most other episodes simply didn't live
up to it)... "Meld" had a very obvious problem when compared to TOS:
here we have Tuvok, a full-blooded Vulcan, who can't pull off a simple
mind meld with a Betazoid... Whereas Spock, a half-Human Vulcan, goes
around mind-melding with all sorts of weirdos--and has no ill effects!


 * OLXWin 1.00a * Heavy Frigate Classes*Avenger*Cyane*Kresta*Joshua Paul


--- WM v3.10/93-0747
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Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 409 of 584
 From : James Dixon                         1:2604/309      .îí 16 .åí 96 19:06
 To   : Leman Russ
 Subj : Re: SF IN GENERAL
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

LR> BK>  The original Twilight Zone series surely.

LR>How dare you fail to mention the original "outer limits"?!?!

You Tell Him!

The original Outer Limits made The Twilight Zone look bad as an SF
series...if the Zone could be Called an SF series that is...


 * OLXWin 1.00a * If ST V is "NonCanon" then ST VII should be "MegaNonCanon"


--- WM v3.10/93-0747
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Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 410 of 584
 From : James Dixon                         1:2604/309      .îí 16 .åí 96 19:08
 To   : Kevin Ahearn
 Subj : Klingons
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

KA>BR> Good point.  I never thought of that before.  I think all of the
KA>BR> humanoid species in the trek universe have something in common with
KA>BR> humans.  Its probably how Gene Roddenbury wanted
KA>BR> it.

KA>Come to think of it, wasn't there a TNG episode in which a common genetic li
KA>between humans, Klingons, and...uh...Cardassians, I think...was discovered?

KA>As I recall, it was a pretty god-awful episode, but continuity-wise, I guess
KA>counts.

Yah, it was called "The Chase" (Why it was called this is beyond me)...
Sort of a follow-up to elements introduced in "The Paradise Syndrome"...
Many fans actually thought it to be a great episode (Why, I dunno...
Maybe because an old friend of Picard dies or because of the optimistic
ending with the Romulan commander's thoughts to Picard)...



 * OLXWin 1.00a * NCC-1701:Constitution->Bonhomme Richard->Achernar->Enterprise


--- WM v3.10/93-0747
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Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 411 of 584
 From : Justin Mohareb                      1:249/127       .òp 17 .åí 96 14:51
 To   : Michael Harper
 Subj : New Star Wars movies
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 -=> Quoting Michael Harper to Justin Mohareb <=-

 JM> Ken Branagh was rumoured to be under consideration, but when
 JM> approached, he responeded that no one had actually ASKED him.

 JM> Shame, tho. He'd probably do a good job.
 MH>
 MH> Ken would do an excellent job. But any actor is only as good as his
 MH> material, and I've seen Ken do crappy work before. Like Gielgud and
 MH> Olivier, he's been known to have his off days...

Oh, I don't doubt it. But I don't think I've ever seen a bad one.  Well,
except for Much Ado, but that was just bitternes on my part.

I haven't seen Frankenstein or Peter's Friends. But I did love HV and DA.

JJ Mohareb

... ...Canadian DOS: "Yer sure, eh?" [y/n] ...
___ Blue Wave/386 v2.30 [NR]

--- Maximus 2.01wb
 * Origin: *Synthesis*  Kingston, Ont., Canada! (1:249/127)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 412 of 584
 From : Todd Sullivan                       1:202/720.3     .îí 16 .åí 96 14:15
 To   : Carin M. Armlin
 Subj : Trek movies
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Reports from the Interior indicate that Carin M. Armlin leaked the following to
BOBBY RISSLER, re: Trek movies

 R>> I agree 100%.  Voyager and DS9 could be a little more like the
 BR>> original  series or The Next Generation.  They take place in the same
 BR>> time period but  they are so different.

 CMA>  Why?  What's wrong with Voyager and DS9 following their own formula?
 CMA> I think if all four of the Trek series had followed the same pattern,
 CMA> they would have gotten extremely dull.

The point is that DS9 and Voyager different, but they keep losing too many
opportunities.  There was a lot they could have done, but just let go.

Another glaring example of different not necessarily being better, IMO.

Todd Sullivan

... Cream rises to the top, but then so do dead fish.

-*- ASTG 1.9

--- Spot 1.3a Unregistered
 * Origin: Todd's Spot in the Continuum (1:202/720.3)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 413 of 584
 From : Todd Sullivan                       1:202/720.3     .îí 16 .åí 96 14:27
 To   : Bill Clements
 Subj : SUPPRESSORS/FIREARMS
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Reports from the Interior indicate that Bill Clements leaked the following to
me, re: SOUND SUPPRESSORS/SPACE F

 LR>>  NOW, the real problem with normal type guns in vacc is recoil in low
 LR>> gravity. For that, I recomend using gyrojets.
 BC>
 TS>> I doubt it.  Gyros are more expensive than those Glasers you
 TS>> mentioned.  It seems to me that they'd be more likely to go with the
 TS>> H/K G-11 concept of a fairly massy weapon with lighter bullets.
 BC>
 BC> I suspect that a rocket based round would be quite practical and
 BC> inexpensive, even the gyrojet (though spin stabilization isn't
 BC> necessary in vacuum), were it mass produced.

One problem I've seen mentioned (/when/ mentioned) is that of the bullet still
accelerating at point-blank to very short ranges.

The point in favor of the G-11 concept is that it's a light bullet--about
4mm--which doesn't require a lot of propellant, and is relatively
maintenance-free.  Another point in its favor is its firing method (rotating
chamber, allowing 1000 RPM) and the use of caseless ammo, which would obviate
standard rounds and their cases, which could cause problems in zero and/or very
low gravity.

Example:  Even 5.56mm (.223 Rem) has one heck of a recoil, while the 4mm (.17
cal, IIRC) has very little by comparison.

Todd Sullivan

... Standard disclaimer:  My views are strictly my own.

-*- ASTG 1.9

--- Spot 1.3a Unregistered
 * Origin: Todd's Spot in the Continuum (1:202/720.3)

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 Msg  : 414 of 584
 From : Todd Sullivan                       1:202/720.3     .îí 16 .åí 96 14:33
 To   : Leman Russ
 Subj : FAVOURITE TREK MOVIE
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Reports from the Interior indicate that Leman Russ leaked the following to Bob
Klahn, re: FAVOURITE TREK MOVIE

 LR>  OK, it's a lame explanation of the nexus. You got a better one?!

 LR> Of  course generations was a mess from the word go. Scotty had thought
 LR> kirk waalive in TNGs "relics" and yet knew he was :dead: in
 LR> genraations.

That was a terrible mistake on the part of the production staff, not the fault
of the writer.  Berman and Piller supposedly knew better.

 LR>  The federation knew nothing of the borg until Q tossed enterprise D
 LR> into their space in TNG, yey Sorans planet was hit by the borg 70 years
 LR> before.

Supposedly, Guinan and Soran's planet was outside of Federation space, and
hadn't been found in the TMP era.

 LR>  No, generations was a mess. they need a hardcore trek fhan in the
 LR> works to ensure continuity.

IIRC, Richard Arnold, who was just what you say, has nothing to do with the
movies, nor DS9 and Voyager.  It shows, too.

Todd Sullivan

... A few clowns short of a circus.

-*- ASTG 1.9

--- Spot 1.3a Unregistered
 * Origin: Todd's Spot in the Continuum (1:202/720.3)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 415 of 584
 From : Todd Sullivan                       1:202/720.3     .îí 16 .åí 96 14:36
 To   : Leman Russ
 Subj : SF IN GENERAL
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Reports from the Interior indicate that Leman Russ leaked the following to Bob
Klahn, re: SF IN GENERAL

 BK>>  The original Twilight Zone series surely.

 LR> How dare you fail to mention the original "outer limits"?!?!

In actuality, both were nominally Science Fiction.  OL was an out-and-out
horror-fest, and TZ was another thing entirely, too much to be defined or
pigeon-holed.

Todd Sullivan

... I'd rather be flogging the peasants...

-*- ASTG 1.9

--- Spot 1.3a Unregistered
 * Origin: Todd's Spot in the Continuum (1:202/720.3)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 416 of 584
 From : Michael Harper                      1:123/10        .òp 17 .åí 96 16:59
 To   : Leman Russ
 Subj : Japanese SF
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
While sipping a dry martini, Leman Russ told Michael Harper about Japanese SF...

 LR> Heinlein did the idea of fusion powered starships landing in oceans
 LR> in one of his novels, I think it was "Time For The Stars". It was
 LR> about the STL fusion ships that had to used identical twins to
 LR> communicate over long distances with telepathy.

 I remember that one now; good story, logical.

 LR> They did what you talk about: "landed" in water, took it on and
 LR> purified it for fusion mass and took off again.
 LR> You might get ideas from it. Hope I've been of help.

 Very much so. I'll hunt up another copy as soon as I get the chance.


... "And IXNAY on the wishing for more wishes!" - Genie of the Lamp
--- RA/FD/FMail
 * Origin: The Eclectic Fox -- Memphis TN  (901)327-1008 (1:123/10)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 417 of 584
 From : Bobby Rissler                       1:270/435       .îí 16 .åí 96 17:13
 To   : Carin M. Armlin
 Subj : Trek movies
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 R> I agree 100%.  Voyager and DS9 could be a little more like the
 BR> original  series or The Next Generation.  They
 BR> take place in the same
 BR> time period but  they are so different.

 CMA>  Why?  What's wrong with Voyager and DS9 following their own formula?  I
 CMA>  think if all four of the Trek series had followed
 CMA> the same pattern, they
 CMA>  would have gotten extremely dull.

  Yes, but if they take place at the same time, they should at least have moree
things in common with The Next Generation.  Voyager has much higher technology
than the enterprise, but the enterprise is the flagship of the federation.


--- Maximus 3.01
 * Origin: The Good News BBS  Bowmansville, PA (1:270/435)

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 Msg  : 418 of 584
 From : James Dixon                         1:2604/309      .òp 17 .åí 96 18:44
 To   : Kay Shapero
 Subj : Japanese SF
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

KS>On <Sep 12 17:56>, Patty Moniz (1:260/388) wrote to JEFF HANCOCK:

KS> JH> Why not?  It could be.... interesting.  ^_-
KS> PM>
KS> PM> Hahaha...  Well, I've noticed a lack of females in this echo.

KS>Oh there are a few of us around...

The question is whether or not the females are bonded...


 * OLXWin 1.00a * Star Fleet Command - Star Fleet Headquarters - U.F.P.


--- WM v3.10/93-0747
 * Origin: Plain Brown Wrapper BBS-Cresskill NJ.(201)569-6685  (1:2604/309)

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 Msg  : 419 of 584
 From : James Dixon                         1:2604/309      .òp 17 .åí 96 18:47
 To   : Leman Russ
 Subj : Re: Sulu on Voyager
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

LR> As for Beltane on Excellsior, here's my theory: When the conduit blew, he t
LR>a severe shock and heat burns. He was by "natural" standards mortally injure
LR>The virus sensed this and jumped into Tuvok.

LR> OK, versatile virus, going from a human with iron based blood to a vulcan w
LR>copper base blood, but adaptibility i is a trademark of survival.

LR> Now, Beltane was rushed to sickbay, clinically dead but was resussicated,
LR>which iswhy he was there at the end of trek 6 on the excellsiors bridge.

Well, I think it's more likely that Tuvok's memory isn't all that
great... Perhaps the battle with Kang's ship happened shortly after ST
VI... We Do know that Praxis exploded Months before Kirk and McCoy were
put on trial, while Tuvok said Days...

LR> But the technobabble was disappointing, altho the visual effects, especiall
LR>of the battle in the nebula, were good.

That's pretty much the only thing which was good: the FX... The
Technobabble was the usual filler...

LR> I think the ep was inspired by a lot of these "repressed memory" type thing
LR>we hear so much of in tabloid press. It could have been better, could have b
LR>worse.

I think the episode just used this repressed memory gimmick as an Excuse
to make it into a "30th anniversary episode" and reconstruct the
Excelsior bridge...

LR> The blurb for next week held little hope. They seem intent on making it a w
LR>in space bit, which is what they mean by "action".

Yah, which means FX will come first and writing second (if even that)...

LR> Rodennbery must be spinning in his grave. He busted his hump to keep trek f
LR>becoming a "space war" story, even writing the ep "Errand of mercy" just to
LR>prevent trek from being devolved into that. Likewise, D.C. Fontanna

Oh, you haven't seen anything yet... Wait'll you see First Contact...
From what I've been trying to piece together, it'll be just like
Battlestar Galactica but with Borg instead of Cylons...

LR>specifically said that Spock had no siblings to keep some laterwriter from
LR>using the horrible old "evil twin" storyline. The writers ignored it, and
LR>brought us the WORST trek movie of all, ST5.

Not really... ST V, if anything, Lacked FX and battles... Thus the
average non-fan critics trashed it (for these non-SF types ONLY see FX
in science fiction movies)... One thing led to another and sheer
momentum made the film flop... ST V was pretty darn close to being a TOS
episode, and it's a shame that so many people didn't see it as such...
It brought us the Kirk-Spock-McCoy focus unlike any other Trek movie...



 * OLXWin 1.00a * STARDATE 7312.31 APPROVED BY GENE RODDENBERRY-ST Blueprints


--- WM v3.10/93-0747
 * Origin: Plain Brown Wrapper BBS-Cresskill NJ.(201)569-6685  (1:2604/309)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 420 of 584
 From : James Dixon                         1:2604/309      .òp 17 .åí 96 18:54
 To   : Kay Shapero
 Subj : B-5
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

KS>by a man by the name of J. Michael Straczinsky.  In fact he even went so far
KS>as to personally write every single script for the third season, something
KS>nobody has ever done before.  (Nor is likely to do again, I suspect - he

Ever watch Blake's Seven? Terry Nation created it and, as best as I can
remember, he wrote every script for the first season or so...


 * OLXWin 1.00a * The Fans keep Trek alive and CARE more for it than P'mount


--- WM v3.10/93-0747
 * Origin: Plain Brown Wrapper BBS-Cresskill NJ.(201)569-6685  (1:2604/309)

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 Msg  : 421 of 584
 From : Brion Lienhart                      1:213/700.2     .pä 18 .åí 96 08:28
 To   : David Little
 Subj : New Star Wars Movies
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On Mon Sep 16, David Little said to Glenn Shaheen:

 DL> GS> Star Wars? What's that?
 DL>        You are kidding, right?
 GS> Gosh, yes.

 -DL>        Believe it or not, I have run into people that have not seen
 -DL>anything
 -DL>relating to SW...I was just making sure!

I've been considering making a trip down to California to take my sister's kids
to see the Special Editions when they come out (the first one anyway). The
oldest was born in 81, so they're too young to have seen any of them in the
theatres. Watching it on the TV just isn't the same as being in your seat in the
theatre when that Star Destroyer comes rumbling overhead. Even w/o THX and
surround sound it was totally awesome back in 77.



--- QM v1.31
 * Origin: Ministry of Peace - Carson City, NV (1:213/700.2)

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 Msg  : 422 of 584
 From : Joey Haven                          1:3654/5        .pä 18 .åí 96 03:18
 To   : James Dixon
 Subj : Re: Favourite Trek movie
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: FastEcho 1.45a 7602
 ¨¨¨ On 15 Sep 96 James spoke the following about Re: Favourite Trek Movie ¨¨¨

 JD> Missing logic? That's just one tiny facet of what's missing these
 JD> days... Quite simply the writing Stinks and is stagnant--all these
 JD> writers (so Few of them today writing the scripts!) do is recycle old
 JD> TOS and TNG plots using the newer characters, chuck in Lots of idiotic
 JD> technobabble for filler, and have the FX team spice up the remainder
 JD> with space battles and fitting pyrotechnics... And to make it seem a

     I agree with the extensive use of exploding com-panels. I like to see
     special effects but, sparingly and only when needed. Besides the best
     FX are the ones outside the ship like exploding cores, torpedoes or
     stars.

 JD> bit more classy, a drama, they write some soapy weeping episodes which
 JD> border on soaps (DS9 in particular)... Why? Well, these writers are
 JD> Not SF writers and have very little comprehension of good SF (unlike
 JD> with TOS where a few veteran SF authors penned episodes)... The writers
 JD> are in fact the directors and, in some cases, the creators of Voyager
 JD> and DS9...

     Why don't they have true SF writers? Is ST no-longer a SF show or do
     they lack the budget (It would seem hard to believe) for writers??

 JD> TOS was a true character study, emphasizing the interaction of Kirk
 JD> (the body), Spock (the mind), and McCoy (the soul)...WITH that sense

     That's neat -- I never thought about it that way!!

 JD> of exploration and adventure, contact with unique alien
 JD> civilizations... And all integrated into a "message" theme which
 JD> frequently commented on our own Humanity...

     That's what I especially miss. TNG sometimes did a good job portraying
     our humanity -- especially with Data. I loved the ep "Data's Day" where
     he learned to dance. <grinning like Data>

 JD> limit... I've been finding Babylon 5 to be closer to the original
 JD> series, in a way...

     I can see that -- I particularly like B5 over ST right now. About
     2 years ago it would be reversed. :-(

     TTYL,
     Joey



... Ask me what I think about computer checks by Designer!
---
 * Origin: Programmers Paragon - Greensboro, NC (1:3654/5)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 423 of 584
 From : Carin M. Armlin                     1:3621/14       .òp 17 .åí 96 07:51
 To   : RICHARD SARNER
 Subj : B-5
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
-=> Quoting Richard Sarner to Funky Diva <=-

 RS> In a message to Richard Sarner <09-13-96 19:54> Funky Diva wrote:
 FD=> Does this mean that the writers of B5 already have a definite
 FD=> "ending" in
 FD=> their minds (how they're going to end the whole story)?  Like for

 RS> Yes. jms, the Executive Producer, concieved the series, and wrote all
 RS> of the  stories for the third season (whew!) He had an outline for the
 RS> course of the  show, some things have changed, but the main structure
 RS> is the same.
 RS> ...Richard
 RS>

     Well, I don't know if this has anything to do w/ what you are talking
     about, but I read somewhere recently (in TV Guide, I think), that jms
     has all the scripts (or outlines at least) for all 5 seasons all
     typed up and saved on floppy disks, all encrypted, w/ only him knowing
     how to get to them.

     I hope that made sense.  Sorry.

     Carin


... ...Our last best hope for peace...

___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20 [NR]
--- Synchronet+SBBSecho v1.22
 * Origin: niflheim - clarksville.tn 615.551.9285 (1:3621/14)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 424 of 584
 From : Kay Shapero                         1:102/524       .òp 17 .åí 96 11:07
 To   : Justin Mohareb
 Subj : B-5
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Sep 16 14:31>, Justin Mohareb (1:249/127) wrote to Funky Diva:

 JM>has said that he's been forced to make changes along the way, but
 JM>he has this thing plotted out.  And apprently in a vault (which, my
 JM>cynical side surmises, probably contains the scripts for the other
 JM>six star wars movies).
 JM>

My guess is most of it's located in the "vault" between his ears.  He knows the
story he wants to tell and he knows the route to get to it, and the major
incidents to happen en route.  This leaves room to fill in any other interesting
stuff along the way.

Good thing too - as he piles up years of experience at writing, directing etc.
Babylon 5, his skills at doing so improve, and thus he's apt to come up with
stuff that he wouldn't have thought of back when he first marketed the concept..
or even during the showing of the first season...

--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

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 Msg  : 425 of 584
 From : James Walton                        1:129/260       .òp 17 .åí 96 15:24
 To   : Keith Stokes
 Subj : Re: B5 wins the Hugo!
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 > The people sitting behind me almost broke my eardrums when it was
 > announced. It received the biggest response of any of the
 > Hugo  winners.


Personally, I think it is a shame that the Worldcon/Hugos spend so much time and
effort on television and movies.  Even Connie Willis' remarks as Toastmaster
were fill with TV references.  (Most of which had to be explained to me.)

--- Opus-CBCS 1.73a
 * Origin: ConFluence '97:  Virtual Bridges (1:129/260.0)

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 Msg  : 426 of 584
 From : Mark Jones                          1:105/302.47    .îí 16 .åí 96 20:15
 To   : David Johnston
 Subj : V: Flashback...
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On (16 Sep 96) David Johnston wrote to Leman Russ...

 DJ> -> 1. Tuvok eating eggs is not impossible as the eggs were probably
 DJ> -> replicated anyway. Locigally there's nothing wrong with eating
 DJ> -> replicated eggs to a vulcan
 DJ>
 DJ> They weren't replicated.

   They don't have to be.  There are different degrees of
vegetarianism.  You may choose not to eat *meat* but continue to
consume milk, cheese, egss and the like.  Or you may choose to forego
eggs (as potential animals).  Or you may choose to avoid even dairy
products.
   There's nothing *inherently* wrong with an avowed vegetarian eating
eggs.  (Especially given that the egg could have been sterile, never
fertilized, and thus couldn't ever hatch a living creature anyhow.)


--- PPoint 1.78
 * Origin: Folcroft Sanitarium (hsmith@cure.com) (1:105/302.47)

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 Msg  : 427 of 584
 From : Mark Jones                          1:105/302.47    .îí 16 .åí 96 20:22
 To   : Kay Shapero
 Subj : Realistic space scen
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On (13 Sep 96) Kay Shapero wrote to Jeff Hancock...

 KS> Ever read Zenna Henderson's "The People" stories? If they didn't
 KS> inspire WM I WILL be surprised. Always gave me the impression
 KS> they wanted to do same, couldn't or wouldn't buy the rights, so
 KS> changed things jusssst enough... Of course they may HAVE and I
 KS> just missed it in the credits.

   *I* did--and I love those stories.  And there *was* a movie made
from them, you know.  I've seen it, though I must confess that it was
so long ago that I can remember almost nothing about it.

--- PPoint 1.78
 * Origin: Folcroft Sanitarium (hsmith@cure.com) (1:105/302.47)

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 Msg  : 428 of 584
 From : Mark Jones                          1:105/302.47    .îí 16 .åí 96 20:25
 To   : Ken Mayes
 Subj : Sulu on Voyager
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On (15 Sep 96) Ken Mayes wrote to James Dixon...

 KM>         The thing that bothers me is that none of these gaffs were
 KM> complicated esoteric ideals subject to interpretation. They were hard
 KM> core facts, easy to verify with a simple viewing of the sixth movie.
 KM> Why didn't the producers simply watch the movie and take notes? Why
 KM> did no one proof-read this script to check continuity?

   That's easy:  They Don't Care.

   A year ago I briefly shared a house with a couple of
relative strangers.  One of them was a Trek fan.  We watched reruns of
TNG and also DS9 and Voyager whenever we both happened to be there.
During one episode of Voyager, when the technobabble was exceptionally
bad, she kept asking me what was going on?  What were they doing?
   The technobabble was, of course, nonsense prattle--no surprise that
she didn't follow it.  But...she didn't *realize* it was nonsense.
   The plot was almost as muddled, and again, she didn't seem to grasp
that it made no sense because it was senseless--she just wasn't
following it.
   That was when I had a revelation.

   SHE is who Berman & Pillar are aiming at.
   Not the long-time fans.  Not the folks who go to cons, and make
costumes, and write and sing filk songs, and do paintings and fan
fiction and all the rest of it.  They're aiming at HER, at the non-SF
fan who doesn't really understand "science fiction" and doesn't *care*
that she doesn't.
   Lame plots don't bother her.  She's never read enough real SF to
learn to tell technobabble from accurate (but not commonplace) SF
concepts.  If it sounds impressive, she's happy.

   Berman and Pillar are writing for *her*.  Not the Fans (tm).
   The Fans (tm) are a small subset of the millions upon millions of
viewers that television programs need to get acceptable ratings.
Non-fans (and mostly non-SF fans, at that) are crucial if a show is
going to succeed.  The original series, after all, had a small but
devoted following...and it folded for lousy ratings.
   It was only after Trek picked up millions of new viewers in
syndication that it because a phenomenon.  But those new viewers are
mostly *not* science fiction fans.  They're TREK fans.  And Berman and
Pillar are giving them all the flash they expect.  No substance, for
the most part, but lots of flash--and that's all most of them expect.
   Any why not?  The Trek franchise needs the millions of casual
viewers more than they need the hard-core nitpickers.  They might even
be able to survive without the hard-core fans entirely.  But they need
those millions of casual viewers, so they deliver the casual viewer's
idea of Trek.
   Which outrages the fans, but--hey, so what?
   (Voyager's slipping ratings may indicate that they're actually
underestimating even *these* viewers, though....)



--- PPoint 1.78
 * Origin: Folcroft Sanitarium (hsmith@cure.com) (1:105/302.47)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 429 of 584
 From : Mark Jones                          1:105/302.47    .òp 17 .åí 96 18:47
 To   : Keith Stokes
 Subj : New Star Wars Movies
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On (15 Sep 96) Keith Stokes wrote to Chris Dixon...

 KS>  CD> Has anyone heard anything about the new Star Wars Trilogy
 KS>  CD> that's supposed to me in the making?
 KS>
 KS> Someone else can better answer about the new trilogy, but I wanted
 KS> to pass along, they are preparing a new release of the original
 KS> trilogy, they are adding some new material, adding some footage that
 KS> was cut the first time, and redoing some of the original scenes. For
 KS> example: the early scene in which Imperial troopers are in the
 KS> desert, the huge creatures being rode by some of the troopers will
 KS> move, instead of just standing still.

   I still believe that they will never actually *do* a new trilogy of
films--not unless George Lucas hands the project to someone else.
   All of the talk and rumors about the new project "any day--er,
year--now" has been just that:  talk.  Rumor.
   Lucas has little to gain and a lot to lose by doing another Star
Wars trilogy.  He's got more money than god, a Star Wars empire of
novels, merchandise and existing film, and ILM to keep him busy.  Any
new trilogy he does is going to be viewed as inferior to the originals
(no matter how good it might be) simply because everyone will be
expecting so much from him that he *can't* deliver it.
   That's a lot of potential aggravation.  I don't think he'll do it.
   He might eventually decide to hand the project to someone else, but
that's it.

   ...in my opinion, obviously.


--- PPoint 1.78
 * Origin: Folcroft Sanitarium (hsmith@cure.com) (1:105/302.47)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 430 of 584
 From : Mark Jones                          1:105/302.47    .òp 17 .åí 96 19:00
 To   : Justin Mohareb
 Subj : B-5
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On (16 Sep 96) Justin Mohareb wrote to Funky Diva...

 JM> To quote an athletic hero of mine, "ohhhhhhhh YEAH!" This sucker
 JM> is plotted out to the end. Or so we've heard. JMS (all praise his
 JM> mighty name <tm>) has said that he's been forced to make changes
 JM> along the way, but he has this thing plotted out. And apprently
 JM> in a vault (which, my cynical side surmises, probably contains
 JM> the scripts for the other six star wars movies).

    I believe JMS when he says he has a Master Plan (tm).  Of course,
it helps that he freely admits that the plan has had to--and no doubt
will again--bend to the realities of television.  That is, to actors
who don't work out (or wish to leave, depending on whom you believe);
to scheduling and budget constraints, and so forth.
    Yes, I believe JMS has a Master Plan.  But he's experienced enough
to know that "no battle plan survives contact with the enemy."
    Most of the novelists I know will also tell you that they may have
had a master plan for *their* stories, too--but that the finished
product may or may not look much like it when they're done.  That
doesn't mean they didn't *have* one.

    ...and Master Plan (tm) or not, I really enjoy his show.


--- PPoint 1.78
 * Origin: Folcroft Sanitarium (hsmith@cure.com) (1:105/302.47)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 431 of 584
 From : Star Hawk                           1:362/708.6     .îí 16 .åí 96 23:47
 To   : Kay Shapero
 Subj : Realistic space scene
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
From my perch I saw this come out of the gravity well from Kay Shapero:

  [> Kay Shapero [> Ever read Zenna Henderson's "The People" stories?
  [> If they didn't inspire WM I WILL be surprised.  Always gave me the
  [> impression they wanted to do same, couldn't or wouldn't buy the
  [> rights, so changed things jusssst enough...  Of course they may
  [> HAVE and I just missed it in the credits.

     While Henderson's tales predate the WITCH MOUNTAIN stories by Alexander
Key, I think it more likely that he just wrote in the same type of fiction.
[Ever read THE FORGOTTEN DOOR by him?  Dealt with another lost kid running into
problems with Earth humans.]

                                        Star Hawk, the EchoTrickster

--- MacWoof Eval:23Dec93
 * Origin: William Bull Hedrick @ Hawk Haven's Orbital Point (1:362/708.6)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 432 of 584
 From : Michel Fortin                       1:167/150       .cê 15 .åí 96 11:28
 To   : Bob Klahn
 Subj : SF IN GENERAL
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
     *      De: Bob Klahn                   A: Michel Fortin       *
     *   Sujet: SF IN GENERAL            Date: 12 Sep 96, 10:26 PM *
     * Section: [FIDO]-SCI.FI & FANDOM                             *

     Bob,

 MF>      By the way; what movies or what TV series have you prefered over
 MF>      the years? Is there something you really felt satisfied with?

BK>  B5 absolutely.

BK>  The original Twilight Zone series surely.

     I almost forgot about that one but you're right: Twilight Zone was
absolutely brilliant! And what do you think about the new serie of 'The
Outer Limits', produced in the vast emptiness of Canada. 2 years of
episodes has been made now (on pay TV) and, as far as I know, it started on
regular TV last year.

BK>  The Time Machine. And a few others. The Day the Earth Stood Still. Or
BK>  were those the classics you were referring to?

     They are good movies (When I was a child my father use to tell me
stories of robots. He told me the story of "The day the Earth.." and, many
many years later I saw the movie. (Now I know my father was a good
storyteller)).

     No, what I meant is that I don't see SF movies reach the heights of
classics, regular movies. Not yet at least. (Who knows, maybe one day JMS
will be tempted by cinema?)

                                             Michel

---  Xenolink 1.981,  XQwk 1.6  [REG 10068]
 * Origin: Le Club Amiga Rive-Sud(CARS), Montreal,PQ(514)335-4076 (1:167/150)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 433 of 584
 From : Pavel Viaznikov                     2:5020/185.9    .òp 17 .åí 96 01:09
 To   : Chris Cobb
 Subj : Metroplois
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Hi there, Chris!

Sunday August 25 1996 16:09, Chris Cobb chose to gladden the heart of All and
wrote:

 CC>  I recently saw a really cool movie called Metropolis. My friend was
 CC> telling me about how it was made by some German guy in the 1920's and that

- Ye-aah, Fritz Lang was the name, and he sure was Great. Try to see his "The
Thousand Eyes of Dr.Mabuse" of 1961, "Dr.Mabuse, the Gamester" of 1922 (and
compare these two films, divided by 38 years!), "The Will of Dr.Mabuse" (1930 -
and this one angried the Nazies a lot).

 CC> it was quite controversial during it's time. I found the concepts in the
 CC> movie way more advanced than any person from the 1920's should have
 CC> thought. I was just wondering, has anyone else seen this movie? I'm

- I've seen it perhaps 10 years ago in "Illusion" film theatre in Moscow - it
used to show mostly old movies, usually very good ones, and it was very
difficult to get in, the tickets were always sold out (and the hall was small).
They also have (they still do) a small cinema museum in the lobby.

Well, I was thrilled when they made a robot copy of the girl there, or when the
children were perishing in the tunnels of the working quarters (could Lang have
predicted the flooding of the Berlin subway under Hiler's orders, with scores of
people hiding there?). Even lacking modern technique, Lang managed a lot.

                                   With regards and a nice smile,     :)
                                               Pavel

---
 * Origin: To beer or not to beer? (C) Shakesbeer (2:5020/185.9)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 434 of 584
 From : Charles Daniels                     1:203/42        .pä 18 .åí 96 02:50
 To   : Frank Swarbrick
 Subj : on Sci-Fi Channel
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

> Do you, or anyone, know what the deal with series six is?  After "Back
> To Reality," the end of series five, my local station started again
> with the first episode, "The End."  Is it just that they haven't
> purchased series six or is it not available in the U.S.?  Hmmm...

You can buy series 6 at Suncoast.  Series 6 has been available for
a long time.  Series 7 is coming on in the UK in January.  For
further info go to: alt.tv.red-dwarf.

> Speaking of seeing "The End" again, I liked it *much* better the
> second time around.  I didn't think it was all that good the first
> time, but now that I know the characters and stuff I really liked it.

Yes, that was the same deal for me too.  I was indifferent with the
series until "Waiting For God" and after that I just got hooked.

> By the by, I watched Homeboys In Outer Space last night.  I swear the
> half-android/half-human waiter sounds just like Kryten.  Does anyone
> know if it's the same actor?

No it is not as Robert Llewellyn has been busy filming series 7.

--- FMail 0.98
 * Origin: Deep Thought: RedDwarf,ST,SF, FREE MEAT!  916-452-9501 (1:203/42)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 435 of 584
 From : Charles Daniels                     1:203/42        .pä 18 .åí 96 02:55
 To   : Frank Swarbrick
 Subj : on Sci-Fi Channel
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

> The Red Dwarf episode they showed last night was "Psirens," so it
> looks like they have series six after all.  Dunno why they showed "The
> End" last week. So I'm happy.

Well great to see the happy ending!    Has anyone else read the original
script for this episode?  They cut out like a dozen funny jokes in this
episode!

--- FMail 0.98
 * Origin: Deep Thought: RedDwarf,ST,SF, FREE MEAT!  916-452-9501 (1:203/42)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 436 of 584
 From : Charles Daniels                     1:203/42        .pä 18 .åí 96 03:02
 To   : Michel Fortin
 Subj : SF in general
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

>A little humour would be better than the 'serious' stuff we have been
>getting in the past years. I think movies, specially american action
>movies, are a little too commercial in most cases. You know how things
>are going to unfold in the next 2 hours by the first 5 minutes (if not
>before). A little drama here, a little car chase there, a little love
>scene here,... The recipe is well know. I think there is more innovation,
> more experimentation, done in TV now.

If you wanna get away from the serious and sell-out stuff the best
advice I can give is to turn to British SF.  Search out Red Dwarf
and Hitchhiker's Guide to The Galaxy.  Look for the best of Doctor
Who, the REAL Doctor Who - not this Fox love story sell out crap.

>By the way; what movies or what TV series have you prefered over
>the years? Is there something you really felt satisfied with?

I think the best series have been Twilight Zone and Red Dwarf.
TZ has really held up over time and RD is really exploring in
areas and doing it in a funny way.

>For my part I can't say I had many. There's a few that comes to my
>mind: Predator, Alien/Aliens, Terminator 1/2, as far as SF goes. B5,
>in terms of TV series. Some of the episodes in ST/STNG. Not much more.

Well Terminator is good.  I think if you haven't found good stuff on
American TV is just because it isn't there!  The only place I have
found it has been from what it coming out of England.

--- FMail 0.98
 * Origin: Deep Thought: RedDwarf,ST,SF, FREE MEAT!  916-452-9501 (1:203/42)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 437 of 584
 From : Charles Daniels                     1:203/42        .pä 18 .åí 96 03:09
 To   : Bob Klahn
 Subj : SF IN GENERAL
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
"WOW!" Thought Charles "Dr. Klahn has come from his evil ninja empire
mountain to share his words of wisdom!  You have my gratitude!"

>The Time Machine. And a few others.

WOW!!! I love this movie!!  It's hard to find other people who like it,
sadly.  I think it is interesting as the main character is obviously
HG Wells in the movie.  I think even though the movie does detract
and not meet the full impact and vision of the novel it does distingush
itself as a quality film to be considered on it's own merits.

> The Day the Earth Stood Still.

Now that is a classic as well!  That whole "Galactic Community by any
means" message kicked ass.

--- FMail 0.98
 * Origin: Deep Thought: RedDwarf,ST,SF, FREE MEAT!  916-452-9501 (1:203/42)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 438 of 584
 From : Charles Daniels                     1:203/42        .pä 18 .åí 96 03:17
 To   : James Dixon
 Subj : Homeboys
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

>If I wanna watch an SF comedy I'll watch a Real comedy like Red Dwarf

LONG LIVE THE SHORT CRIMSON ONE!

(Sorry, my RD fandom goes to obscene levels!)

> or an episode from the Hitch Hikers Guide to the Galaxy tv series...

To bad that didn't go for 42 episodes.  But it was a mini-series.

> Even that dreadful Come Back Mrs. Noah bomb was funnier than this...

I always thought the pilot for that was funny but the series sucked -
the reverse of the usual.

> Homeboys is an example of modern-day blaxploitation,

Shaft On Saturn!

> IS HOMEBOYS IN OUTER SPACE A PART OF THE "CANON" TREK UNIVERSE?

> Don't laugh (yet!)...

> 1. It's set in the 23rd Century and the first episode features Scotty,
> played by Jimmy Doohan himself as a chief engineer (it could be set
> after ST VI and the opening of "Generations" but right before his
> Jenolan trip, say around late 2293)...

This is sad!

> 2. There's references to other Trek Universe items, notably Dilithium
> Crystals are spoken of...

Okay...umm this is just because they can't be bothered to think of
new stuff.

> 3. In a recent episode, a Tribble is featured!

Somehow this knowledge doesn't make me regret I missed the episode
in question.

> 4. I could've sworn I saw a Bolian in that bar...
> OK, go ahead and laugh...it Was a stupid passing thought...

Nah, I'm sure Paramount will announce "Star Trek: Deep Homeboys The
Next Voyage" for the 1998 Fall Line Up.

--- FMail 0.98
 * Origin: Deep Thought: RedDwarf,ST,SF, FREE MEAT!  916-452-9501 (1:203/42)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 439 of 584
 From : Gary Warren                         1:382/92.7      .pä 18 .åí 96 16:13
 To   : All
 Subj : Kira/Nana has a baby boy!  (fwd.)
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
========================================================================
 Copied from FILM by Gary Warren (1:382/92.7)
========================================================================
From endless@kaiwan.comWed Sep 18 09:13:51 1996
Date: Tue, 17 Sep 1996 18:59:00 -0700 (PDT)
From: Ruben Macias <endless@kaiwan.com>
To: Undisclosed recipients:  ;
Subject: Warp 10: baby's HERE

                          _______________________

Nana Visitor had a baby boy on Monday September 16th at 11:20PM Siddig and
Nana are now both parents. I'll send you more details as they become
available.  No info on weight and he has no name yet but apparently all
previously discussed names have been rejected and a new one is being
decided. Previous names included Nemo and St. John
                           ____________________


-+- PPoint 1.90
 + Origin: Gary's Bar and Grill (1:382/92.7)

--- PPoint 1.90
 * Origin: Gary's Bar and Grill (1:382/92.7)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 440 of 584
 From : Pavel Viaznikov                     2:5020/185.9    .pä 18 .åí 96 23:49
 To   : Michael Harper
 Subj : Sound supressors
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Hi there, Michael!

Wednesday September 04 1996 23:02, Michael Harper chose to gladden the heart of
Peter McNeill and wrote:

 PM>> Ahhhh..... I see. Now that's a different kettle of fish. I always get
 PM>> a chuckle out of <especially tv shows> the villian/goodguy pulling out
 PM>> his silenced .44 magnum and hearing this little "phufttt"....
 MH>  Exactamundo! It invariably annoys me, because I know more than your
 MH>  average bear about such things. I mean, fer Christ's sake, Hollywood,
 MH>  do yer research...

- Phew! When I was 16, I wrote an anty-imperialist SF story ;)  - it was a Dark
Future (the term I didn't know then) of the USA - because, as everybody knew (as
that 16-yr-old thought) the USSR could not have a dark future, - well, it all
took place in NY, or better to say in the ruins of NY (very convenient for
somebody who did not know much about NY!) - and the main character had silenced
_grenades_. (Would anybody from Hollywood care to buy _this_ idea from me? ;)

                                   With regards and a nice smile,     :)
                                               Pavel

---
 * Origin:   Happy Christmas! (C) Herod the King    (2:5020/185.9)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 441 of 584
 From : Todd Sullivan                       1:202/720.3     .òp 17 .åí 96 16:33
 To   : Leman Russ
 Subj : Japanese SF
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Reports from the Interior indicate that Leman Russ leaked the following to
Michael Harper, re: Japanese SF

 LR>  Heinlein did the idea of fusion powered starships landing in oceans in
 LR> one of his novels, I think it was "Time for the stars". It was about
 LR> the STL fusion ships that had to usedentical twins to communicate over
 LR> long distances with telepathy.

 LR>  They did what you talk about: "landed" in water, took it on and
 LR> purified it for fusion mass and took off again.

As I recall, they only used the water for reaction mass, not for fusion. Those
ships were called "steam kettles"; they only heated the water by passing it
through the reactor.

Of course, they'd still have to purify it, and that was a long time ago that I
read it...

Todd Sullivan

... "Someons get this big, hairy, walking carpet out of my way." --Leia

-*- ASTG 1.9

--- Spot 1.3a Unregistered
 * Origin: Todd's Spot in the Continuum (1:202/720.3)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 442 of 584
 From : David Little                        1:106/7315      .pä 18 .åí 96 08:23
 To   : Mark Jones
 Subj : New Star Wars Movies
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
-=< Mark Jones used the Jedi Mind Trick on me!>=-

 MJ> I still believe that they will never actually *do* a new trilogy of
 MJ> films--not unless George Lucas hands the project to someone else.
 MJ> All of the talk and rumors about the new project "any day--er,
 MJ> year--now" has been just that:  talk.  Rumor.

        Incorrect. The first episode script is complete, casting is in it's
final stages and be wrapping up in a month or so, and filming is scheduled to
begin next spring.

 MJ> Lucas has little to gain and a lot to lose by doing another Star
 MJ> Wars trilogy.  He's got more money than god, a Star Wars empire of
 MJ> novels, merchandise and existing film, and ILM to keep him busy.  Any
 MJ> new trilogy he does is going to be viewed as inferior to the originals
 MJ> (no matter how good it might be) simply because everyone will be
 MJ> expecting so much from him that he *can't* deliver it.
 MJ> That's a lot of potential aggravation.  I don't think he'll do it.
 MJ> He might eventually decide to hand the project to someone else, but
 MJ> that's it.

        He has pretty much handed it over to other people. It is rumored he
will direct the first episode, but he is mainly executive producer and that's
it. He's brought in a lot of talent to help in in production.

                                        -=The DoLittle 8-)=-


... STAR WARS FIDONET ECHO...We're all fine down here...How are you?
--- Blue Wave/DOS v2.30 [NR]
 * Origin: The Wizards Realm BBS 1-713-946-7315 1:106/7315 (1:106/7315)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 443 of 584
 From : James Dixon                         1:2604/309      .pä 18 .åí 96 18:25
 To   : Ken Mayes
 Subj : Re: Homeboys
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

KM>On Sun 15-Sep-1996  8:13p, James Dixon said to Brandon Wolgast:

KM>JD> IS HOMEBOYS IN OUTER SPACE A PART OF THE "CANON" TREK UNIVERSE?


KM>        Oh please, say it ain't so!

I hope not, I'd hate to have to include it in my little chronology
file...

KM>        If Roddenberry wasn't spinning in his grave before, I'm sure he is n
KM>Jeeze Louise.

He doesn't have much of a grave since he was cremated... But I take your
point...

KM>        I've got a bigger question. Is Voyager a part of the 'Cannon' Trek
KM>universe? So far, I'd venture that there are more blatant contradictions
KM>between it and the rest of Trek than there are between Homeboys and the rest
KM>Trek. Scary thought, huh?

And I have to agree... Voyager really taxes credibility and
continuity... The "Threshold" episode alone is the biggest load of
baloney I've seen in a long time... It's also pretty sad how Lieutenant
Tuvok (as stated on screen and in the Title Sequence of every episode)
wore Lieutenant Commander pips throughout Half of the first season until
someone noticed--so they then changed his pips to reflect Lieutenant
rank and hoped nobody would notice... So at the same time they changed
Paris' pips from full Lieutenant to Lieutenant Junior Grade! Then
there's all those shuttlecraft they keep going through (as though
they're making them or something!)...

But speaking of Homeboys... Last night's episode had Scotty using the
transporter to move some loser around in a bar--same TOS transporter
sound FX at least... And it was again confirmed that this series is set
in the late 23rd Century... Could very well be set around 2293 before
Scotty's last voyage...


 * OLXWin 1.00a * Trekker in pon farr seeks Trekkess for bonding - leave e-mail


--- WM v3.10/93-0747
 * Origin: Plain Brown Wrapper BBS-Cresskill NJ.(201)569-6685  (1:2604/309)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 444 of 584
 From : David Johnston                      1:342/14        .åò 19 .åí 96 00:22
 To   : Kay Shapero
 Subj : B-5
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
-> TS>Just where did you get this inaccurate, libelous drivel?  Not one
-> TS>of those points is correct.
-> Er... Todd?  Currently the place IS serving as a center of resistance
-> to the Shadows (though it may well be the guy stopped watching before
-> the break with Earth),  the first three were destroyed (and the
-> humans who did

No, I just didn't mention it because it wasn't relevant to why Earth
kept building the things.

--- PCBoard (R) v15.21/100
 * Origin: Freddy's Place - Edm. AB - 33.6K (403) 413-3460 (1:342/14)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 445 of 584
 From : Frank Glover                        1:2613/477      .pä 18 .åí 96 22:14
 To   : Leman Russ
 Subj : Re: Japanese SF
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

LR>   Heinlein did the idea of fusion powered starships landing in oceans
LR>  in one of his novels, I think it was "Time for the stars". It was
LR>  about the STL fusion ships that had to usedentical twins to
LR>  communicate over long distances with telepathy.
LR>
LR>   They did what you talk about: "landed" in water, took it on and
LR>  purified it for fusion mass and took off again.

   It was indeed `Time For The Stars,' but the ships wern't fusion powered, they
were photon rockets. They had some means of converting mass to energy without
the use of an equal portion of antimatter. I believe they said they could also
use other materials like liquid methane or ammonia, but water was their first
choice if they could find it....

   Frank


--- QuickBBS 2.81 (Beta-2) GoldBase
 * Origin: The Matrix Data Bank BBS, Rochester, Ny (1:2613/477)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 446 of 584
 From : Frank Glover                        1:2613/477      .pä 18 .åí 96 22:23
 To   : Mark Jones
 Subj : Re: V: Flashback...
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

MJ>    On the other hand, I was nice to hear Janeway *admit* what many
MJ>  fans
MJ>  (myself included) have been thinking for years--the Federation of TNG
MJ>  and Voyager is a pale imitation of the Federation of years past.
MJ>  They're so politically correct, so hellbent on being sweet, bland and
MJ>  unreasonably reasonable that nobody with any real gumption (i.e.,
MJ>  Kirk, Spock, McCoy, Scotty, or Sulu) could be tolerated--they'd have
MJ>  to be purged (err, um, thrown out).

   That *was* refreshing. (Reminded me also of what Lt. McGyvers of `Space Seed'
said of men of her past, compared to her era.) I always felt that if it were
possible to actually live in any of the Trek histories, the era the movies are
set in would be the most interesting. (Exept maybe out on the fringes where DS9
is...)

   Frank


--- QuickBBS 2.81 (Beta-2) GoldBase
 * Origin: The Matrix Data Bank BBS, Rochester, Ny (1:2613/477)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 447 of 584
 From : Frank Glover                        1:2613/477      .pä 18 .åí 96 22:29
 To   : Mark Jones
 Subj : Re: Realistic space scen
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

MJ>   KS> Ever read Zenna Henderson's "The People" stories? If they didn't
MJ>   KS> inspire WM I WILL be surprised. Always gave me the impression
MJ>   KS> they wanted to do same, couldn't or wouldn't buy the rights, so
MJ>   KS> changed things jusssst enough... Of course they may HAVE and I
MJ>   KS> just missed it in the credits.
MJ>
MJ>     *I* did--and I love those stories.  And there *was* a movie made
MJ>  from them, you know.  I've seen it, though I must confess that it was
MJ>  so long ago that I can remember almost nothing about it.

   Some years (15? 20?) back there was a made-for-TV movie on ABC based on this.
I *think* it was simply called `The People.' I do clearly remember that one of
the stars was William Shatner....

   Frank


--- QuickBBS 2.81 (Beta-2) GoldBase
 * Origin: The Matrix Data Bank BBS, Rochester, Ny (1:2613/477)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 448 of 584
 From : Frank Glover                        1:2613/477      .pä 18 .åí 96 22:33
 To   : Mark Jones
 Subj : Re: Sulu on Voyager
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

MJ>     SHE is who Berman & Pillar are aiming at.
MJ>     Not the long-time fans.  Not the folks who go to cons, and make
MJ>  costumes, and write and sing filk songs, and do paintings and fan
MJ>  fiction and all the rest of it.  They're aiming at HER, at the non-SF
MJ>  fan who doesn't really understand "science fiction" and doesn't
MJ>  *care*
MJ>  that she doesn't.
MJ>     Lame plots don't bother her.  She's never read enough real SF to
MJ>  learn to tell technobabble from accurate (but not commonplace) SF
MJ>  concepts.  If it sounds impressive, she's happy.

   [additional thoughtful comments deleted]

   That was *very* well put...!

   Frank


--- QuickBBS 2.81 (Beta-2) GoldBase
 * Origin: The Matrix Data Bank BBS, Rochester, Ny (1:2613/477)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 449 of 584
 From : Frank Glover                        1:2613/477      .pä 18 .åí 96 22:37
 To   : Carin M. Armlin
 Subj : B-5
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

CM>       Well, I don't know if this has anything to do w/ what you are
CM>  talking
CM>       about, but I read somewhere recently (in TV Guide, I think),
CM>  that jms
CM>       has all the scripts (or outlines at least) for all 5 seasons all
CM>
CM>       typed up and saved on floppy disks, all encrypted, w/ only him
CM>  knowing
CM>       how to get to them.
CM>
CM>       I hope that made sense.  Sorry.

   It does. Let us hope he never dies or loses his decryption passwords!

   Frank


--- QuickBBS 2.81 (Beta-2) GoldBase
 * Origin: The Matrix Data Bank BBS, Rochester, Ny (1:2613/477)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 450 of 584
 From : Frank Glover                        1:2613/477      .pä 18 .åí 96 22:43
 To   : Joey Haven
 Subj : Re: Favourite Trek movie
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

JH>   JD> TOS was a true character study, emphasizing the interaction of
JH>  Kirk
JH>   JD> (the body), Spock (the mind), and McCoy (the soul)...WITH that
JH>  sense
JH>
JH>       That's neat -- I never thought about it that way!!

   That was pretty clear most of the time. Kirk almost said as much in the tape
he left behind for them in `The Tholian Web.'

   It's also the basis of all the arguments Spock and McCoy have had. (My
favorites being a jail scene in `Bread and Circuses,' a debate on the value of
tribbles in that episode, and the morality/ethics of the Genisis device in ST-II
[preferably the longer TV version])

   Frank


--- QuickBBS 2.81 (Beta-2) GoldBase
 * Origin: The Matrix Data Bank BBS, Rochester, Ny (1:2613/477)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 451 of 584
 From : Funky Diva                          6:720/1415      .åò 19 .åí 96 09:12
 To   : James Dixon
 Subj : SF shows in America
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: FastEcho 1.45 801
Hi James!

 FD>What are the top 5 popular SF TV shows in America? If anyone could also
 FD>provide figures to back it up, it'd be better.  Thanks.

 JD> Depends on what you mean... Current series or overall? Hey, I'm very
 JD> flexible and have watched virtually all TV SF at one time or
 JD> another... Many I wouldn't dare compare because they take different
 JD> approaches (some are even only borderline SF series)...

I meant current series.  However, I will probably want to pose the same
question again regarding overall/all time best SF shows eventually.
You made it happen sooner.

 JD> But anyhow, offhand, and on the spur of the moment, and in no special
 JD> order...

 JD> Star Trek (the classic, definitive, original series)...
 JD> Doctor Who (preferably Before the McCoy Era)...
 JD> The Outer Limits (the classic, original series)...
 JD> The Prisoner...
 JD> Blake's Seven...

I've only seen Star Trek TOS from your list.  Got most of them on tapes.
Regrettably though, can't say the same about the other four shows.
Can you tell me a little about them?  I know Doctor Who is being mentioned
quite often among SF fans, but I don't know anything about it.  With your
help, I'll finally be able to lose the "I dunno" status permanently.
Oh, and BTW, I assume these five shows are your personal favorites?

 JD> That's offhand you understand... I could easily add 5+ more...
 JD> Babylon 5 comes to mind...

Okay.  B5 is in your list of TOP 5 SF shows(current).  What are the
other four? (give or take)


lili...
e-mail:UFJL0486@MS6.HINET.NET

... "He did exactly what I would have done."
... "That one is a sorcerer.  He can read the minds of his enemies."
---
 * Origin: -=) dysan bbs (=- (02)9435631/9421935/9423928/9484436 (6:720/1415)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 452 of 584
 From : David Johnston                      1:342/14        .åò 19 .åí 96 00:32
 To   : James Dixon
 Subj : Re: V: Flashback...
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
-> They weren't replicated eggs... You remember all that talk over
-> replicator rations and all... For the record, they were Porakan eggs
-> picked up by Neelix on Porakas IV ("the most flavorful eggs in the
-> sector!")... Though he did have to sterilize them in a cryostatic
-> chamber (whatever that is) for three days, and then each one of them
-> had to be parboiled inside the shell...

A cryostatic chamber would be a freezer.

--- PCBoard (R) v15.21/100
 * Origin: Freddy's Place - Edm. AB - 33.6K (403) 413-3460 (1:342/14)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 453 of 584
 From : David Johnston                      1:342/14        .åò 19 .åí 96 00:40
 To   : Bobby Rissler
 Subj : Trek Movies
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
-> Yes, but if they take place at the same time, they should at least
-> have moree things in common with The Next Generation.  Voyager has
-> much higher technology than the enterprise, but the enterprise is the
-> flagship of the federation.

Actually the Enterprise is rubble but that's beside the point.  The
meaningless label "Flagship of the Federation" can as easily be applied
to the oldest operating ship as the most advanced one.  The Enterprise
is the bigger ship with the better reputation.  After all, the Voyager
went out on one mission and vanished.  Hardly an impressive record.

--- PCBoard (R) v15.21/100
 * Origin: Freddy's Place - Edm. AB - 33.6K (403) 413-3460 (1:342/14)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 454 of 584
 From : Pavel Viaznikov                     2:5020/185.9    .ÿò 20 .åí 96 00:26
 To   : Kay Shapero
 Subj : B-5
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Hi there, Kay!

Sunday September 15 1996 22:38, Kay Shapero chose to gladden the heart
of Kay Shapero and wrote:       ^^^^^^^^^^^
   ^^^^^^^^^^^

 KS>> television, each episode being a chapter, authored by a man by
 KS>> the name of J. Michael Straczinsky.  In fact he even went so far
 KS>                              ^^^^^^
 KS> Oops; that's Straczynski.  Ok, so I can't spel... :->

- I say, you two have a nice talk there! Hope you enjoy the communication,
writing to each other...

...BTW, who got the other Nebulas?

                                   With regards and a nice smile,     :)
                                               Pavel

---
 * Origin: To beer or not to beer? (C) Shakesbeer (2:5020/185.9)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 455 of 584
 From : Leman Russ                          1:2250/7        .òp 17 .åí 96 04:32
 To   : Justin Mohareb
 Subj : Re: New Star Wars movies
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 Just after star wars became the megahit of history, Mark Hamil bought a new
corvette stingray to celebrate, got drunk and ended up having his face
splattered on the windshield.

 It took quite of bit of surgery but his face was more or less restored. if you
look at him in SW and then in TESB you'll notice the difference.

 While the surgery restored his face it did not age well, acocunting for hamils
appearance in later years.

>;[

--- DLG Pro v1.0/DLGMail
 * Origin: Sage's Tower - Amiga - (618) 259-1844 (1:2250/7)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 456 of 584
 From : Leman Russ                          1:2250/7        .òp 17 .åí 96 04:35
 To   : James Dixon
 Subj : Re: V: FLASHBACK...
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 Data stopped giving long periods of time tothe precise second because helearned
it annoyed people. Maybe Tuvok learned to round things off too.

>:[

--- DLG Pro v1.0/DLGMail
 * Origin: Sage's Tower - Amiga - (618) 259-1844 (1:2250/7)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 457 of 584
 From : Leman Russ                          1:2250/7        .pä 18 .åí 96 16:44
 To   : James Dixon
 Subj : Re: V: Flashback...
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 Ifyou really want flames, go to the SF echo, area #130. Boy, if you don;t agree
with people about Heinlein, FLAME ON!!!

>:[

--- DLG Pro v1.0/DLGMail
 * Origin: Sage's Tower - Amiga - (618) 259-1844 (1:2250/7)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 458 of 584
 From : Leman Russ                          1:2250/7        .pä 18 .åí 96 16:45
 To   : James Dixon
 Subj : Re: Favourite Trek movie
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 Remember that Betazoidss have strongempathic and telepathis abilities, and
Suter was a total psycho. That's probably why melding with him gave Tuvok such
problems.

>;[

--- DLG Pro v1.0/DLGMail
 * Origin: Sage's Tower - Amiga - (618) 259-1844 (1:2250/7)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 459 of 584
 From : Leman Russ                          1:2250/7        .pä 18 .åí 96 16:46
 To   : James Dixon
 Subj : Re: SF IN GENERAL
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 Yeah, the original OL was great. Too bad showtime ----ed it up.

>:[

--- DLG Pro v1.0/DLGMail
 * Origin: Sage's Tower - Amiga - (618) 259-1844 (1:2250/7)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 460 of 584
 From : Christopher Lee                     1:387/31.50     .ÿò 20 .åí 96 00:18
 To   : All
 Subj : Space Truckers!
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 A couple of weeks ago on  Entertainment Tonight  they showed
 Dennis Hopper(sp?) making a movie called "Space Truckers".
 Anybody know if it has anything to do with  John DeChancie's
 "Skyway" Trilogy?

 Skyway Trilogy: "Starrigger", "Red Limit Freeway",
  and "Paradox Alley".

hang'n loose...
                                CHL

... As a computer, I find your faith in technology amusing.

--- PPoint 2.00
 * Origin:    Occam's Razor... San Antonio, Tx (1:387/31.50)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 461 of 584
 From : Bob Klahn                           1:234/2         .åò 19 .åí 96 17:36
 To   : Michel Fortin
 Subj : SF IN GENERAL
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
...

BK>>  B5 absolutely.

BK>>  The original Twilight Zone series surely.

 MF>      I almost forgot about that one but you're right: Twilight Zone was
 MF> absolutely brilliant! And what do you think about the new serie of 'The
 MF> Outer Limits', produced in the vast emptiness of Canada. 2 years of
 MF> episodes has been made now (on pay TV) and, as far as I know, it
 MF> started on regular TV last year.

 I haven't seen it yet. I am very reluctant to be at all open to remakes of
 old series, yet I do keep hoping.

BK>>  The Time Machine. And a few others. The Day the Earth Stood Still. Or
BK>>  were those the classics you were referring to?

 ...

 MF>      No, what I meant is that I don't see SF movies reach the heights of
 MF> classics, regular movies. Not yet at least. (Who knows, maybe one day
 MF> JMS will be tempted by cinema?)

 Very few non-SF movies reach the heights of classics. Just wait. The bad
 thing is, before long SF as we know it will be current events. Or, is that
 the good thing.

BOB KLAHN   bob.klahn@toltbbs.com

... The wise learn more from fools than fools from the wise.
 * Silver Xpress V4.3P RB10275

--- FLAME v1.1
 * Origin: Telnet toltbbs.com or call 313-854-6001, Boardwatch #55 (1:234/2)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 462 of 584
 From : Bob Klahn                           1:234/2         .åò 19 .åí 96 17:36
 To   : Charles Daniels
 Subj : SF IN GENERAL
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 CD> "WOW!" Thought Charles "Dr. Klahn has come from his evil ninja empire
 CD> mountain to share his words of wisdom!  You have my gratitude!"

 It is so nice to be appreciated.

 Now, just remember, there's no place like home, there's no place like home.

>>The Time Machine. And a few others.

 CD> WOW!!! I love this movie!!  It's hard to find other people who like it,
 CD> sadly.  I think it is interesting as the main character is obviously
 CD> HG Wells in the movie.  I think even though the movie does detract
 CD> and not meet the full impact and vision of the novel it does distingush
 CD> itself as a quality film to be considered on it's own merits.

 The technical quality of the movie is excellent, the FX and the
 characters. And it is fairly true to the book, which scores mucho points
 in any event. At least with me.

>> The Day the Earth Stood Still.

 CD> Now that is a classic as well!  That whole "Galactic Community by any
 CD> means" message kicked ass.

  I recall reading many years back that the space ship appeared to be made
 from some form of glass, and that is was quite reasonable that it might
 be. Ceramics are, after all, a form of glass. They show up everywhere.


BOB KLAHN   bob.klahn@toltbbs.com

... Remember, going with the flow, usually takes you down the drain!   OJW
 * Silver Xpress V4.3P RB10275

--- FLAME v1.1
 * Origin: Telnet toltbbs.com or call 313-854-6001, Boardwatch #55 (1:234/2)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 463 of 584
 From : James Dixon                         1:2604/309      .åò 19 .åí 96 18:24
 To   : Joey Haven
 Subj : Re: Favourite Trek movie
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

JH> JD> Missing logic? That's just one tiny facet of what's missing these
JH> JD> days... Quite simply the writing Stinks and is stagnant--all these
JH> JD> writers (so Few of them today writing the scripts!) do is recycle old
JH> JD> TOS and TNG plots using the newer characters, chuck in Lots of idiotic
JH> JD> technobabble for filler, and have the FX team spice up the remainder
JH> JD> with space battles and fitting pyrotechnics... And to make it seem a

JH>     I agree with the extensive use of exploding com-panels. I like to see
JH>     special effects but, sparingly and only when needed. Besides the best
JH>     FX are the ones outside the ship like exploding cores, torpedoes or
JH>     stars.

Yah, a good Treknical question is Why there are bridge consoles powered
by mega-voltage lines... At least in "Flashback" Tuvok said that a
plasma conduit behind the console was responsible (then of course this
begs the question again: Why are there plasma conduits powering bridge
consoles?)...

JH> JD> bit more classy, a drama, they write some soapy weeping episodes which
JH> JD> border on soaps (DS9 in particular)... Why? Well, these writers are
JH> JD> Not SF writers and have very little comprehension of good SF (unlike
JH> JD> with TOS where a few veteran SF authors penned episodes)... The writers
JH> JD> are in fact the directors and, in some cases, the creators of Voyager
JH> JD> and DS9...

JH>     Why don't they have true SF writers? Is ST no-longer a SF show or do
JH>     they lack the budget (It would seem hard to believe) for writers??

As I see the situation, it all boils down to one thing: GREED...
Today Trek is a treasure chest, and the more people indoctrinated into
its production means the more ways the loot gets divided... Therefore,
Berman's kept Trek's production crew nice and small, with the same
producers, directors, and writers (frequently Swapping jobs) so no
newbies need be brought aboard... Sure, if they honest-to-Gene cared
about the Trek's Quality they'd hire new writers, preferably writers who
are experienced with science fiction... They would also at least Listen
to fans and take their Input into consideration... Instead, what we have
is a case where the powers that be "hope the fans won't notice" the
continuity errors, the technobabble bull, the overall Bad writing that's
innocent of science, reason, and common sense... Indeed, according to
some sources (especially as far as the Pocket Books novels are
concerned) the writers believe the episodes should appeal to a much
younger audience (teens who Are ignorant of science and Quality SF)...
They could of course let some FANS in, to look over the scripts, provide
feedback, Point Out the errors--but that'd only 1. put them on the
payroll (fewer bucks in the pockets of everyone else) and 2. be a
possible security breach (can't let 'em leak out what's to come to the
other fans)...

The lack of care is so obvious, but the guys running the show don't give
a damn and know that no matter how bad it gets the Trekkie-zombies will
still watch it... So long as these guys get paychecks they're willing to
drag the Trek Universe down with them...

JH> JD> TOS was a true character study, emphasizing the interaction of Kirk
JH> JD> (the body), Spock (the mind), and McCoy (the soul)...WITH that sense

JH>     That's neat -- I never thought about it that way!!

After many years of watching it, and discussing it with fans, it's a
pretty keen concensus...

JH> JD> of exploration and adventure, contact with unique alien
JH> JD> civilizations... And all integrated into a "message" theme which
JH> JD> frequently commented on our own Humanity...

JH>     That's what I especially miss. TNG sometimes did a good job portraying
JH>     our humanity -- especially with Data. I loved the ep "Data's Day" where
JH>     he learned to dance. <grinning like Data>

Yah, now the Data we knew is "dead" (killed by Berman's new order, in
Generations)... What comprised Data is now spread across the holographic
doctor and Tuvok in Voyager, and Odo in DS9...

JH> JD> limit... I've been finding Babylon 5 to be closer to the original
JH> JD> series, in a way...

JH>     I can see that -- I particularly like B5 over ST right now. About
JH>     2 years ago it would be reversed. :-(

B5's making fine progress... Building upon the foundation laid down in
its earlier seasons... Trek simply fails to do this...


 * OLXWin 1.00a * For a good time(line) download TREK9.ZIP...


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 Msg  : 464 of 584
 From : James Dixon                         1:2604/309      .åò 19 .åí 96 18:40
 To   : Charles Daniels
 Subj : Homeboys
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

CD>> or an episode from the Hitch Hikers Guide to the Galaxy tv series...

CD>To bad that didn't go for 42 episodes.  But it was a mini-series.

Yah, and I've seen at least 3 different edited versions of it (some run
6 episodes, others 7--some have scenes cut)...

CD>> Even that dreadful Come Back Mrs. Noah bomb was funnier than this...

CD>I always thought the pilot for that was funny but the series sucked -
CD>the reverse of the usual.

I missed the pilot for the series and only caught the other episodes...
Looked like it was done by the same crew who did Are You Being
Served--and lacked even the basic knowledge of SF...

CD>> IS HOMEBOYS IN OUTER SPACE A PART OF THE "CANON" TREK UNIVERSE?

CD>> Don't laugh (yet!)...

CD>> 1. It's set in the 23rd Century and the first episode features Scotty,
CD>> played by Jimmy Doohan himself as a chief engineer (it could be set
CD>> after ST VI and the opening of "Generations" but right before his
CD>> Jenolan trip, say around late 2293)...

CD>This is sad!

I know, but I had to bring it up (hey, either I'd bring it up or someone
else would so I figured I'd might as well since I at least have a keen
eye for these continuity bits and I'd get the facts of the matter right
at least!)...

CD>> 2. There's references to other Trek Universe items, notably Dilithium
CD>> Crystals are spoken of...

CD>Okay...umm this is just because they can't be bothered to think of
CD>new stuff.

Could be...

CD>> 3. In a recent episode, a Tribble is featured!

CD>Somehow this knowledge doesn't make me regret I missed the episode
CD>in question.

But fortunately it wasn't called a tribble on-screen... (Probably hear
from David Gerrold if they did!)...

CD>> 4. I could've sworn I saw a Bolian in that bar...
CD>> OK, go ahead and laugh...it Was a stupid passing thought...

CD>Nah, I'm sure Paramount will announce "Star Trek: Deep Homeboys The
CD>Next Voyage" for the 1998 Fall Line Up.

Might happen the way Voyager's going...


 * OLXWin 1.00a * Franz Joseph*Michael McMaster*Geoffrey Mandel*Todd Guenther


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 Msg  : 465 of 584
 From : James Dixon                         1:2604/309      .åò 19 .åí 96 19:11
 To   : Michel Fortin
 Subj : SF IN GENERAL
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

MF> MF>      By the way; what movies or what TV series have you prefered over
MF> MF>      the years? Is there something you really felt satisfied with?

MF>BK>  B5 absolutely.

MF>BK>  The original Twilight Zone series surely.

MF>     I almost forgot about that one but you're right: Twilight Zone was
MF>absolutely brilliant! And what do you think about the new serie of 'The
MF>Outer Limits', produced in the vast emptiness of Canada. 2 years of
MF>episodes has been made now (on pay TV) and, as far as I know, it started on
MF>regular TV last year.

Twilight Zone was more drama/supernatural thriller... The Outer Limits
on the other hand was generally the closest thing to hardcore SF on a
weekly basis... The new episodes, on the other hand, are pale imitations
of the original and seem too 90ish with all the glittery FX and modern
incidental music... I saw all the first season episodes I could on
Showtime (while I had it!) and most of the second season episodes--which
is generally an immense improvement over the first season... The new
series isn't bad but it doesn't have the atmosphere of the original
(those claustophobic camera angles and eerie music is missing!)...


 * OLXWin 1.00a * If ST V is "NonCanon" then ST VII should be "MegaNonCanon"


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 Msg  : 466 of 584
 From : James Dixon                         1:2604/309      .åò 19 .åí 96 19:17
 To   : Mark Jones
 Subj : Sulu on Voyager
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

MJ> KM>         The thing that bothers me is that none of these gaffs were
MJ> KM> complicated esoteric ideals subject to interpretation. They were hard
MJ> KM> core facts, easy to verify with a simple viewing of the sixth movie.
MJ> KM> Why didn't the producers simply watch the movie and take notes? Why
MJ> KM> did no one proof-read this script to check continuity?

MJ>   That's easy:  They Don't Care.

MJ>   A year ago I briefly shared a house with a couple of
MJ>relative strangers.  One of them was a Trek fan.  We watched reruns of
MJ>TNG and also DS9 and Voyager whenever we both happened to be there.
MJ>During one episode of Voyager, when the technobabble was exceptionally
MJ>bad, she kept asking me what was going on?  What were they doing?
MJ>   The technobabble was, of course, nonsense prattle--no surprise that
MJ>she didn't follow it.  But...she didn't *realize* it was nonsense.
MJ>   The plot was almost as muddled, and again, she didn't seem to grasp
MJ>that it made no sense because it was senseless--she just wasn't
MJ>following it.
MJ>   That was when I had a revelation.

MJ>   SHE is who Berman & Pillar are aiming at.
MJ>   Not the long-time fans.  Not the folks who go to cons, and make
MJ>costumes, and write and sing filk songs, and do paintings and fan
MJ>fiction and all the rest of it.  They're aiming at HER, at the non-SF
MJ>fan who doesn't really understand "science fiction" and doesn't *care*
MJ>that she doesn't.
MJ>   Lame plots don't bother her.  She's never read enough real SF to
MJ>learn to tell technobabble from accurate (but not commonplace) SF
MJ>concepts.  If it sounds impressive, she's happy.

MJ>   Berman and Pillar are writing for *her*.  Not the Fans (tm).

Well-said!
Well-said!

This is the crux of the problem and why, after all these years, I can
still go back to the old 79 episodes from the 60s and enjoy them even
though I've seen them countless times before... They didn't need flashy
FX, sophisticated-sounding technobabble... They were well-written
stories with solid plots, characters, and meaningful storylines...

The episodes of the past few years, on the other hand, fail to hold up
after repeated viewings... The characters are so flat and undefined, and
the stories so non-credible that it's like watching a cheap cartoon...


 * OLXWin 1.00a * NCC-1701:Constitution->Bonhomme Richard->Achernar->Enterprise


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 Msg  : 467 of 584
 From : David Little                        1:106/7315      .åò 19 .åí 96 09:45
 To   : Brion Lienhart
 Subj : New Star Wars Movies
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
-=< Brion Lienhart used the Jedi Mind Trick on me!>=-

 BL> On Mon Sep 16, David Little said to Glenn Shaheen:
 DL> GS> Star Wars? What's that?
 DL>        You are kidding, right?
 GS> Gosh, yes.
 -DL>        Believe it or not, I have run into people that have not seen
 -DL>anything relating to SW...I was just making sure!

 BL> I've been considering making a trip down to California to take my
 BL> sister's kids to see the Special Editions when they come out (the
 BL> first one anyway). The oldest was born in 81, so they're too young to
 BL> have seen any of them in the theatres. Watching it on the TV just
 BL> isn't the same as being in your seat in the theatre when that Star
 BL> Destroyer comes rumbling overhead. Even w/o THX and surround sound it
 BL> was totally awesome back in 77.

        You can come on over here to Houston in March and see the entire
trilogy back-to-back and meet the people from the echo!

                                        -=The DoLittle 8-)=-


... "AGH!! It's a NIGHTMARE! I'm seeing *SIX WARNERS*!!" - Plotz
--- Blue Wave/DOS v2.30 [NR]
 * Origin: The Wizards Realm BBS 1-713-946-7315 1:106/7315 (1:106/7315)

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 Msg  : 468 of 584
 From : Kay Shapero                         1:102/524       .åò 19 .åí 96 08:30
 To   : Star Hawk
 Subj : Realistic space scene
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Sep 16 23:47>, Star Hawk (1:362/708.6) wrote to Kay Shapero:

 SH>     While Henderson's tales predate the WITCH MOUNTAIN stories
 SH>by Alexander Key, I think it more likely that he just wrote in
 SH>the same type of fiction.  [Ever read THE FORGOTTEN DOOR by him?
 SH>Dealt with another lost kid running into problems with Earth
 SH>humans.]

Oh I didn't mean Alexander Key's story; I was talking about the movie made from
it.  But he may well have been inspired by Henderson's work in any case.

--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

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 Msg  : 469 of 584
 From : Kay Shapero                         1:102/524       .åò 19 .åí 96 08:31
 To   : James Dixon
 Subj : B-5
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Sep 17 18:54>, James Dixon (1:2604/309) wrote to Kay Shapero:

KS>by a man by the name of J. Michael Straczinsky.  In fact he even went so far
KS>as to personally write every single script for the third season, something
KS>nobody has ever done before.  (Nor is likely to do again, I suspect - he

 JD>Ever watch Blake's Seven? Terry Nation created it and, as best as
 JD>I can
 JD>remember, he wrote every script for the first season or so...


I've seen Blakes Seven - I knew Terry Nation wrote most of it, but didn't think
he'd done all of an entire season.  Well, then that makes two of 'em.  Still not
the sanest of actions, one must admit.  Wonder what it is about these shows that
begin with B and end in a number... :->

--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

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 Msg  : 470 of 584
 From : Kay Shapero                         1:102/524       .åò 19 .åí 96 08:34
 To   : James Dixon
 Subj : Japanese SF
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Sep 17 18:44>, James Dixon (1:2604/309) wrote to Kay Shapero:


KS> JH> Why not?  It could be.... interesting.  ^_-
KS> PM>
KS> PM> Hahaha...  Well, I've noticed a lack of females in this echo.

KS>Oh there are a few of us around...

 JD>The question is whether or not the females are bonded...

James Bonded?  :->

--- msged 2.06
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 Msg  : 471 of 584
 From : Funky Diva                          6:720/1415      .åò 19 .åí 96 15:03
 To   : Frank Glover
 Subj : SW
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: FastEcho 1.45 801
Hi Frank!

 FG> For that matter, Star Wars was originally
 FG>

envisioned by Lucas as a large, but finite story, of which we've seen

 FG>

the three `middle' episodes already....

Over the years, the numbers mentioned have gone from 1, 9, 12, and
finally to 6.  I guess that would make the three existing ones the
"last" three episodes.


lili...
e-mail:UFJL0486@MS6.HINET.NET

... Episode VIII:  RERUN OF THE JEDI
---
 * Origin: -=) dysan bbs (=- (02)9435631/9421935/9423928/9484436 (6:720/1415)

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 Msg  : 472 of 584
 From : Funky Diva                          6:720/1415      .ÿò 20 .åí 96 09:02
 To   : All
 Subj : Space: Above and Beyond
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: FastEcho 1.45 801
Hi everyone!

S:AaB just started airing here.  We're up to episode 4 now.  I liked
the pilot and the fourth one (mutiny on board; Hawkes finds his genetic
sibling, and reluctantly kills her at the end).  It's borderline SF at
best, but for the time being, I'm enjoying it.

Now, to my question:
The 58 squadron leader (forgot his name) said the invitros are not
born until they're 18.  What, they keep the invitros in the tank for
18 years?!?  Wouldn't that be too costly? -- not to mention a hell of
a job to maintain.  Or is it that the cost to keep them alive in tanks
for 18 years is relatively cheap than to feed them, educate them,
control them or whatever?

Well, anybody?


lili...
e-mail:UFJL0486@MS6.HINET.NET

... ((((((((HYPNOTIC))))))))((((((((TAGLINE))))))))
---
 * Origin: -=) dysan bbs (=- (02)9435631/9421935/9423928/9484436 (6:720/1415)

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 Msg  : 473 of 584
 From : Michael Harper                      1:123/10        .ÿò 20 .åí 96 07:06
 To   : Brion Lienhart
 Subj : New Star Wars Movies
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
While sipping a dry martini, Brion Lienhart told David Little about
New Star Wars Movies...

 BL> I've been considering making a trip down to California to take my
 BL> sister's kids to see the Special Editions when they come out (the
 BL> first one anyway). The oldest was born in 81, so they're too young to
 BL> have seen any of them in the theatres. Watching it on the TV just
 BL> isn't the same as being in your seat in the theatre when that Star
 BL> Destroyer comes rumbling overhead. Even w/o THX and surround sound it
 BL> was totally awesome back in 77.

 God, yes... I saw SW ten times in the theater, always on or near the
 front... It ran here at the old Malco Memphian theater, one of the last
 BIG screen theaters in this part of the country... something like sixty
 feet diagonal, with the old Altec professional drivers behind the
 screen, all analog amps... the sound had texture to it that digital
 systems can't match. I staggered out of the theater, higher than the
 proverbial kite. The only movie that's done that to me lately has been
 ID4...


... "In my experience there's no such thing as luck." --Obi-Wan Kenobi
--- RA/FD/FMail
 * Origin: The Eclectic Fox -- Memphis TN  (901)327-1008 (1:123/10)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 474 of 584
 From : Demian Katz                         1:2626/102      .pä 18 .åí 96 00:15
 To   : Owen E. Oulton
 Subj : Re: Star Cops
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
> Some time ago, I was discussing the British SF cop show Star Cops with
> someone here.  Could that person (or anyone, for that matter) please post
> a full list of the episodes in order?

It wasn't me, but I enjoyed the show and have an episode list...

---CUT HERE---
From: mdupree@tdc.dircon.co.uk (Micky DuPree)
Date: 29 Jul 1994 06:54:05 +0100

STAR COPS
Introduction and Background

It is the year 2027 and the commercial exploitation of space is in full
swing.  There are six orbital stations around the Earth, an
internationally manned base on the moon, and a colony on Mars.
Unfortunately, criminal enterprise in space is in full swing as well,
and the International Space Police Force was created to deal with it.
But the ISPF is an ad hoc group of part-time volunteers looking for a
little extra money in addition to their regular jobs, and they're so
inefficient that they're dubbed the "Star Cops" by the press.  The
decision is made to appoint a commander and turn the force into a full-
time unit.  As our story opens, Detective Chief Superintendent Nathan
Spring has been pressured into submitting his name for the post despite
the fact that he's never even left Earth before.  Spring is an old-
fashioned cop who thinks modern police methods rely too heavily on
computer projections.

According to series creator Chris Boucher, "Star Cops" was three years
in the research and planning stage.  The ideas for Earth, Moonbase, the
orbital stations, and the Martian colonies were elaborately worked out,
and we only saw a fraction of the detail.  Boucher is known for previous
work on the science fiction series "Doctor Who" and "Blake's 7," and on
the crime dramas "Shoestring," "Juliet Bravo," and "Bergerac."  The
technological sophistication in "Star Cops" was almost unprecedented for
broadcast serial television drama, and yet it never bogged down in
technical detail.  The maturity of the human drama was unusual for any
medium, and it was handled with wit and intelligence.  The crime stories
were not pitched as whodunits.  Generally it was either ridiculously
easy or virtually impossible to figure out who the criminal was.
Instead, the mysteries were always occasions to question the validity of
one's evidence for believing in anything at all: for believing that a
crime had been committed, for believing that one was doing the right
thing, for placing trust in another human being.

"Star Cops" went into production in the fall of 1986 and was shown in
the summer of 1987 on BBC-2.  There were nine 51-minute episodes in all.
A tenth script was commissioned, but because of labor disputes at the
time, it never went into production.  A second series was planned,
reportedly to have focused on the Martian colonies, but the series was
canceled without much fanfare.

============================================
   STAR COPS
   episode guide

Starring David Calder as Nathan Spring/Box

Semi-regulars:

David Theroux                Erick Ray Evans
Colin Devis                    Trevor Cooper
Pal Kenzy                       Linda Newton
Alexander Krivenko            Jonathan Adams
Anna Shoun                        Sayo Inaba

Series devised by Chris Boucher
Producer: Evgeny Gridneff
Script Editor: Joanna Willett


1. AN INSTINCT FOR MURDER
   July 6, 1987
   W: Chris Boucher; D: Christopher Baker

"Groundsider" career cop Nathan Spring finds
himself being kicked literally upstairs to
the International Space Police Force.  He's
assigned a case in space that he doesn't
want, and told to drop a case on the ground
that he does want.

w/ Evans, Newton

Commander                       Moray Watson
Controller                     Keith Varnier
Lee Jones                    Gennie Nevinson
Brian Lincoln                 Andrew Secombe
Hans Diter                 Frederik de Groot
Lars Hendvorrsen                 Luke Hanson
Marie Mueller                  Katja Kersten

2. CONVERSATIONS WITH THE DEAD
   July 13, 1987
   W: Chris Boucher; D: Christopher Baker

Spring, newly appointed Commander of the
Star Cops, is suddenly called back to Earth
about a case in his own back yard, leaving
David Theroux to solve the mystery of a
rogue space freighter.

w/ Evans, Cooper

Lee Jones                    Gennie Nevinson
Corman                           Sian Webber
Paton                            Alan Downer
Fox                             Sean Scanlan
Gina                            Carmen Gomez
John Smith                       Benny Young
Traffic Controller           Deborah Manship
Mike                          Richard Ireson
Lara                          Rosie Kerslake

3. INTELLIGENT LISTENING FOR BEGINNERS
   July 20, 1987
   W: Chris Boucher; D: Christopher Baker

On his first assignment in the ISPF, Colin
Devis stings corrupt cop Pal Kenzy, and the
Star Cops get a mysterious tip on the moon
about space shuttle hijacking that may tie
into computer sabotage on Earth.

w/ Evans, Cooper, Newton

Michael Chandri              David John Pope
Leo                            Trevor Butler
Ben                         Thomas Coulthard
Shuttle hostess                    Tara Ward
Shift foreman                   Peter Quince
Process operator                Peter Glancy

4. TRIVIAL GAMES AND PARANOID PURSUITS
   July 27, 1987
   W: Chris Boucher; D: Graeme Harper

Having reinstated herself, Kenzy follows
Spring to the American space station on the
trail of a missing scientist who may have
never existed.  Meanwhile, Russian Dr.
Alexander Krivenko, the new Coordinator of
Moonbase, starts asking a lot of questions.

w/ Evans, Cooper, Newton, Adams

Commander Griffin             Daniel Benzali
Dilly Goodman                 Marlena Mackey
Pete Lennox                     Robert Jezek
Marty                        Russell Wootton
Lauter                           Angela Crow
Harvey Goodman                  Morgan Deare
Receptionist                 Shope Shodeinde

5. THIS CASE TO BE OPENED IN A MILLION YEARS
   August 3, 1987
   W: Philip Martin; D: Graeme Harper

Spring is attacked and framed for murder in
Rome, while the Star Cops investigate the
aborted launch of a nuclear waste dumper
rocket on the moon.

w/ Evans, Cooper, Newton, Adams

Carlo Santanini              Michael Chesden
Marla Condarini                 Susan Curnow
Inspector Canova            Stewart Guidotti
Lina Margello                 Vikki Chambers
Personnel officer               Flip Webster
Angelo Pordenone             Andre Winterton
Tour guide                     Carl Forgione

6. IN WARM BLOOD
   August 10, 1987
   W: John Collee; D: Graeme Harper

When a survey spaceship arrives home with a
dead crew, the contracted medical firm sends
in its own investigator, Dr. Anna Shoun, but
after one of its top researchers also dies
in the same manner, Spring suspects a
coverup.

w/ Evans, Cooper, Newton, Adams, Inaba

Richard Ho                      Richard Rees
Christina Janssen                Dawn Keeler
Receptionist                       Susan Tan

7. A DOUBLE LIFE
   August 17, 1987
   W: John Collee; D: Christopher Baker

An influential woman's frozen embryos are
stolen from the Moonbase clinic and held for
ransom, but when Shoun identifies the thief,
he has absolute proof he was on Earth when
the crime was committed.

w/ Evans, Cooper, Newton, Adams, Inaba

James Bannerman/Albi          Brian Gwaspari
Chamsya Assadi                    Nitza Saul

8. OTHER PEOPLE'S SECRETS
   August 24, 1987
   W: John Collee; D: Christopher Baker

Suspicious technical glitches abound on
Moonbase just as a safety inspector does his
tour, and aggravation waxes instead of wanes
when an abrasive psychiatrist shows up to
shrink heads in space.

w/ Evans, Cooper, Newton, Adams, Inaba

Ernest Wolffhart            Geoffrey Bayldon
Dr. Angela Parr           Maggie Ollerenshaw
Hooper                         Barrie Rutter
Beverly Anderson               Leigh Funnell

9. LITTLE GREEN MEN AND OTHER MARTIANS
   August 31, 1987
   W: Chris Boucher; D: Graeme Harper

The Star Cops have to contend with a
Moonbase abuzz with meddling journalists,
scientific fraud, political corruption, drug
smuggling, and murder when the discovery of
a Martian, now on its way to Moonbase, is
announced.

w/ Newton, Cooper, Adams, Inaba

Daniel Larwood                    Roy Holder
Andrew Philpot                  Nigel Hughes
Susan Caxton                   Lachelle Carl
Operations manager             Wendy Macadam
Co-pilot                Bridget Lynch-Blosse
Pilot                          Kenneth Lodge
Customs officer                Peter Neathey
Outpost controller           Philip Rowlands
Surveyor                         David Janes


"Star Cops" is copyright (c) 1987 by the
British Broadcasting Corporation.  This
episode guide is copyright (c) 1992 by Micky
DuPree.  Permission to reproduce it is
hereby granted so long as it is always
reproduced in its entirety and never
reproduced for profit.

--- DB 1.58/005132
 * Origin: Castrovalva BBS  610-917-0380 (1:2626/102)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 475 of 584
 From : Brandon Wolgast                     1:363/281       .pä 18 .åí 96 19:34
 To   : James Dixon
 Subj : Homeboys/Trek
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE/32 1.2
Hey James,

JD>You've got to be kidding! The series is S-T-U-P-I-D... It's aimed at
JD>low-lifes who think SF is a big hairy joke... Nothing in it could make
JD>me laugh... If I wanna watch an SF comedy I'll watch a Real comedy
JD>like Red Dwarf or an episode from the Hitch Hikers Guide to the Galaxy
JD>tv series... Even that dreadful Come Back Mrs. Noah bomb was funnier
JD>than this...

JD>Homeboys is an example of modern-day blaxploitation, but anyhow... If
JD>you want to start a Really messy flame thread out of this, here's a
JD>doozy...

JD>IS HOMEBOYS IN OUTER SPACE A PART OF THE "CANON" TREK UNIVERSE?

JD>Don't laugh (yet!)...

JD>1. It's set in the 23rd Century and the first episode features Scotty,
JD>played by Jimmy Doohan himself as a chief engineer (it could be set
JD>after ST VI and the opening of "Generations" but right before his
JD>Jenolan trip, say around late 2293)...

JD>2. There's references to other Trek Universe items, notably Dilithium
JD>Crystals are spoken of...

JD>3. In a recent episode, a Tribble is featured!

JD>4. I could've sworn I saw a Bolian in that bar...

JD>OK, go ahead and laugh...it Was a stupid passing thought...

To tell the truth it is probably better than the Trek we have now, in
fact, I think it is.  I am a huge sci-fi fan, my favorite show is
Babylon 5, I have every episode taped and have watched them a million
times, my favorite movies are the Star Wars movies, I found it terrible
they cancelled Space: Above and Beyond and when STTNG left I was ticked.
But I would rather watch an episode of Homeboys than a current episode
of DS9 or Voyager.  And about your points, although Jimmy was in it, he
did not play Scotty (although he was of course "paradying(sp)").
Dilithium does not mean it's Trek.  Before Trek we already had beaming,
shuttle crafts, torpedos, etc., yet Trek is not "something else."  B5
has hyperspace but it's not Star Wars, just like Lucas "stole"
hyperspace from Isaac Asimovs novels which is the earlier I've seen
hyperspace written about (of course I'm positive somewhwere it's even
before that).

As for the tribble.. I was laughing my butt off, and it was a "smoogie"
not a tribble! =)

I've seen "trek like" aliens, but ANYTHING with a bump on it's head is a
Trek alien.

I just think it's a funny series and so far I've never stopped laughing
(they do need to either get rid of the laugh track or film in front of a
live audiance, and of course get rid of the computer woman).  Last
nights when they went to the planet "Caucasia," I jsut found funny.  I
guess we all like what we like, look at the bright side, even I can
admit it will get canned soon. =>

Brandon


JD> * OLXWin 1.00a * Creation: Soon to be only Official Canon conventions!


JD>--- WM v3.10/93-0747
JD> * Origin: Plain Brown Wrapper BBS-Cresskill NJ.(201)569-6685  (1:2604/309)

***
 * OLX 2.1 * "Only Imperial Stormtroopers are so precise." - Obi-Wan

---
 * Origin: Compudyne Microsystems, Inc. * Data/Fax (407)381-2798 * (1:363/281)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 476 of 584
 From : Todd Sullivan                       1:202/720.3     .åò 19 .åí 96 19:11
 To   : All
 Subj : Definitely bye for now...
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Well, this time it's official.  The State of California finally cooperated, and
I have funds for the trip east.  This is the last message I'll be sending.  No,
really.

By the time you see this, I should be somewhere in Texas.

See you all later.

Todd Sullivan

... "The sneak attack is the first resort of a coward." --Sinclair

-*- ASTG 1.9

--- Spot 1.3a Unregistered
 * Origin: Todd's Spot in the Continuum (1:202/720.3)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 477 of 584
 From : Todd Sullivan                       1:202/720.3     .ÿò 20 .åí 96 14:35
 To   : David Johnston
 Subj : V: Flashback...
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Reports from the Interior indicate that David Johnston leaked the following to
James Dixon, re: V: Flashback...

 ->> They weren't replicated eggs... You remember all that talk over
 ->> replicator rations and all... For the record, they were Porakan eggs
 ->> picked up by Neelix on Porakas IV ("the most flavorful eggs in the
 ->> sector!")... Though he did have to sterilize them in a cryostatic
 ->> chamber (whatever that is) for three days, and then each one of them
 ->> had to be parboiled inside the shell...

 DJ> A cryostatic chamber would be a freezer.

One that uses liquid Nitrogen or liquid Helium II, that is.

Todd Sullivan

... "If God were not a necessary Being of Himself, He might almost
     seem to be made for the use and benefit of men." --John Tillitson

-*- ASTG 1.9

--- Spot 1.3a Unregistered
 * Origin: Todd's Spot in the Continuum (1:202/720.3)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 478 of 584
 From : Frank Glover                        1:2613/477      .ÿò 20 .åí 96 20:32
 To   : Bob Klahn
 Subj : Re: SF IN GENERAL
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

BK>   Very few non-SF movies reach the heights of classics. Just wait. The
BK>  bad
BK>   thing is, before long SF as we know it will be current events. Or,
BK>  is that
BK>   the good thing.

   I'm still hoping to one day see an SF film win the Oscar for best picture.
Usually they can only win for special effects and/or costuming, and sometimes
cinematography and musical score.

   E.T. came close, but Gandhi edged it out that year....

   Frank


--- QuickBBS 2.85 (Beta-2) GoldBase
 * Origin: The Matrix Data Bank BBS, Rochester, Ny (1:2613/477)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 479 of 584
 From : Bruce Clark                         1:105/314       .ÿò 20 .åí 96 16:30
 To   : James Dixon
 Subj : Re: Homeboys
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12  91-0012

-=> Quoting James Dixon to Ken Mayes <=-

 JD> But speaking of Homeboys... Last night's episode had Scotty using the
 JD> transporter to move some loser around in a bar--same TOS transporter
 JD> sound FX at least... And it was again confirmed that this series is
 JD> set in the late 23rd Century... Could very well be set around 2293
 JD> before Scotty's last voyage...


I caught part of it a few days ago. Scotty said something
to the effect: I pulled their fannies out of it 26 times a
year and look at how I got dumped on.

A snide remark about the 60's when there were 26 episodes
per year rather then the 13 that we get now?

Remember that Scotty is supposed to still be around after
being stuck in that transporter buffer for all those years
and then being rescued by TNG and given a shuttle to go
where ever he wanted after that.


___ Blue Wave/386 v2.21

--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12
 * Origin: COM-DAT BBS  (1:105/314.0)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 480 of 584
 From : Bill Clements                       1:18/230        .åò 19 .åí 96 16:15
 To   : Leman Russ
 Subj : SOUND SUPRESSORS
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
From the desk of a cynical old man...

"Moving parts in rubbing contact require lubrication to avoid
excessive wear. Honorifics and formal politeness provide
lubrication where people rub together. Often the very young, the
untraveled, the naive, the unsophisticated deplore these
formalities as "empty," "meaningless," or "dishonest," and scorn
to use them. No matter how "pure" their motives, they thereby
throw sand into machinery that does not work too well at best."

                                             -- Mr. Justice Lenox

Posted 16 Sep 96 - Leman Russ to Bill Clements

 BC> I suggest that you considerably broaden the material that you
 BC> read in an effort of self education.

 LR> And I suggest you quit being such a snotty, pompous ass!

Your message does not merit a response. However as you are, or
due to your previous comment about school psychological reports
appear to be, a child I will trouble myself to do so.

As a child I was taught that further research was necessary if I
was not completely sure of the validity of the information I
would use in answering a question. If there was not time for
continued research standing mute, if at all possible, was
preferable to answering using faulty data. I also learned not to
volunteer information unless I was _ONE_HUNDRED_PERCENT_ sure of
my data and could show, if necessary, the sources of said data.

My earlier message was, rather than being "snotty and pompous"
as you allege, formally polite and a legitimate suggestion

concerning your future welfare. I am firmly convinced that you,
as are all American youth, are being severely "short changed" in
terms of your education. Read "The Happy Days Ahead" in
"EXPANDED UNIVERSE" (C) 1980 by Robert A. Heinlein ISBN
0-441-21883-0 for your further edification. Had my message been
in language, and thought (or lack thereof), contemporary to
American youth it would have been:

 You don't be knowing what you talk about. SHUT THE F*CK UP!

As an exercise for the student please tell me origin of the
quotation that I used to begin this message.

--rwc

... "You live and learn. Or you don't live long." --LL

--- PPoint 2.00 / QWK

--- FLAME v1.1
 * Origin: ANCESTRY TBBS Shadows of forgotten ancestors 941-382-9061 (1:18/230)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 481 of 584
 From : Bill Clements                       1:18/230        .åò 19 .åí 96 16:15
 To   : Owen E. Oulton
 Subj : SOUND SUPRESSORS
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
From the desk of a cynical old man...

Posted 15 Sep 96 - Owen E. Oulton to Bill Clements

 OE> Metal surfaces which are in contact in a hard vacuum over a period of
 OE> time tend to bond together.

 BC> _PROLONGED_ exposure to vacuum causes "vacuum welding".

 OE> Perhaps you missed part of my sentence above which states "over a period of
 OE> time..."  6 of one, 1/2 dozen of the other...

Perhaps you missed this sentence entirely.

 BC> Your answer to the question about vacuum welding corroborates my
 BC> thinking on this subject.

corroborate (verb transitive) to add strength to; to confirm; to support a
statement, etc..

 BC> Thus weapons, personal, crew served, or fixed, would not exhibit
 BC> this problem if they were stored and serviced in atmosphere and
 BC> "run out" only when needed.

 OE> Except that the process is cumulative and does not reverse itself when
 OE> you go back into an atmosphere, although limiting exposure to vacuum
 OE> would of course slow the process down.  Best to engineer the weapons
 OE> specifically to eliminate the problem in the first place.

The process of vacuum welding is cumulative as long as the parts
in question are in molecularly static contact. Normal use and
servicing interrupts contact at the molecular level and inhibits
vacuum welding. Objects appearing to be weapons that are not used
and serviced; broken down for cleaning, inspection, and necessary
replacement of parts; are ornaments and need not be expected to
function when needed.

--rwc

... "Natural laws have no pity." --LL

--- PPoint 2.00 / QWK

--- FLAME v1.1
 * Origin: ANCESTRY TBBS Shadows of forgotten ancestors 941-382-9061 (1:18/230)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 482 of 584
 From : Christopher Lee                     1:387/31.50     .óá 21 .åí 96 02:01
 To   : Funky Diva
 Subj : Space: Above and Beyond
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On (20 Sep 96) Funky Diva wrote to All...

FD>Now, to my question:
FD>The 58 squadron leader (forgot his name) said the invitros are not
FD>born until they're 18.  What, they keep the invitros in the tank for
FD>18 years?!?

 I forget the specifics but the Invitros are rapidly aged to
 the physical age of 18 and then they are "born".
 The invitro angle is explored further in later episodes.

aye...ohh...lets go...

                             CHL

... 94% of the time I'm right, why worry about the other 3%?

--- PPoint 2.00
 * Origin:    Occam's Razor... San Antonio, Tx (1:387/31.50)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 483 of 584
 From : Michael Harper                      1:123/10        .ÿò 20 .åí 96 15:17
 To   : Pavel Viaznikov
 Subj : Sound supressors
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
While sipping a dry martini, Pavel Viaznikov told Michael Harper about
Sound supressors...

 PV> Hi there, Michael!

 How's it going, Pavel?

 MH>  Exactamundo! It invariably annoys me, because I know more than your
 MH>  average bear about such things. I mean, fer Christ's sake, Hollywood,
 MH>  do yer research...

 PV> - Phew! When I was 16, I wrote an anti-imperialist SF story ;)  - it
 PV> was a Dark Future (the term I didn't know then) of the USA - because,
 PV> as everybody knew (as that 16-yr-old thought) the USSR could not have
 PV> a dark future, - well, it all took place in NY, or better to say in
 PV> the ruins of NY (very convenient for somebody who did not know much
 PV> about NY!) - and the main character had silenced _grenades_. (Would
 PV> anybody from Hollywood care to buy _this_ idea from me? ;)

 Don't wave it at them too hard if you wanna keep writer's credit...
 Hollywood is notorious about taking someone else's ideas, filing off
 the serial numbers, and keeping it as something Fresh, New And
 Original...  but while silenced grenades are technically impossible by
 today's standards, there's no reason why a low-noise flash grenade
 couldn't be developed by some bright boy in the future...

 Just outta curiosity, where d'you live? My guess would be Kiev or St.
 Petersburg, but for all I know you live in Brooklyn... in which case
 may God have mercy upon you... <g!>


... "Keep the faith, baby." --Fyodor Kropotkin
--- RA/FD/FMail
 * Origin: The Eclectic Fox -- Memphis TN  (901)327-1008 (1:123/10)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 484 of 584
 From : Owen E. Oulton                      1:243/45        .óá 21 .åí 96 13:32
 To   : Bill Clements
 Subj : SOUND SUPRESSORS
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 OE> Metal surfaces which are in contact in a hard vacuum over a period of
 OE> time tend to bond together.
 BC>
 BC> _PROLONGED_ exposure to vacuum causes "vacuum welding".
 BC>
 OE> Perhaps you missed part of my sentence above which states "over a period
 OE> of time..."  6 of one, 1/2 dozen of the other...
 BC>
 BC> Perhaps you missed this sentence entirely.
 BC>
 BC> Your answer to the question about vacuum welding corroborates my
 BC> thinking on this subject.

No, I didn't miss it, it's just that the sentence seemed on the surface of it to
be self-contradictory, and where words worth more than 2 cents are used on the
boards these days, I cynically just accept that they're used incorrectly.  The
level of literacy on-line is, to be blunt, execrable. <G>
My apologies.

 BC> The process of vacuum welding is cumulative as long as the parts
 BC> in question are in molecularly static contact. Normal use and
 BC> servicing interrupts contact at the molecular level and inhibits
 BC> vacuum welding. Objects appearing to be weapons that are not used
 BC> and serviced; broken down for cleaning, inspection, and necessary
 BC> replacement of parts; are ornaments and need not be expected to
 BC> function when needed.

This would involve a complete stripdown of every component, every single time
the weapon was taken out.  It's possible to do this, but inefficient, and, with
most current weapons, contraindicated.  Modern weapons are not designed to be
completely dismantled except in extreme circumstances.  There's also the
problems of materials fatigue.  Current weapons are designed to be operated in
an Earth-normal environment.  While they would still function in a space
environment, such function would be less than optimal.  A complete redesign
would be needed, including such things as placing the bore (and thus the recoil)
in line with the centre of the weapon's mass, replacing metal springs with
materials which do not become brittle in space, drastically different recoil
compensation systems, etc...  With such a redesign process, one could eliminate
much of the metal-to-metal contact and likely lower the number of parts.  Hell,
one could likely seal at least *some* of the components in inert gas.  As well,
some things we currently consider options would probably become standard, like
laser sights.

Oh, speaking of laser sights, have you seen the writeups in various magazines
about the new mini-laser sights which actually replace the recoil spring guide,
and are activated by the slide stop lever, with no external modification to the
weapon?

CFN, O

--- Maximus 2.01wb
 * Origin: Pandora's Box, Ottawa, Ont. 613-829-1209 (1:243/45)

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 Msg  : 485 of 584
 From : Leman Russ                          1:2250/7        .ÿò 20 .åí 96 06:32
 To   : Frank Glover
 Subj : Re: Japanese SF
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 FG> believe they said they could also use other materials like liquid
 FG> methane or ammonia, but water was their first choice if they could
 FG> find it....

 Thatr is correct, on one planet they had to use liquid ammonia or methane,
can't recall which, and were very worried that it would ruin the ship.

>;[

--- DLG Pro v1.0/DLGMail
 * Origin: Sage's Tower - Amiga - (618) 259-1844 (1:2250/7)

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 Msg  : 486 of 584
 From : James Dixon                         1:2604/309      .ÿò 20 .åí 96 18:26
 To   : Funky Diva
 Subj : SF shows in America
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

FD> FD>What are the top 5 popular SF TV shows in America?    If anyone could
FD> FD>also provide figures to back it up, it'd be better.  Thanks.

FD> JD> Depends on what you mean... Current series or overall? Hey, I'm very
FD> JD> flexible and have watched virtually all TV SF at one time or
FD> JD> another... Many I wouldn't dare compare because they take different
FD> JD> approaches (some are even only borderline SF series)...

FD>I meant current series.  However, I will probably want to pose the same
FD>question again regarding overall/all time best SF shows eventually.
FD>You made it happen sooner.

FD> JD> But anyhow, offhand, and on the spur of the moment, and in no special
FD> JD> order...

FD> JD> Star Trek (the classic, definitive, original series)...
FD> JD> Doctor Who (preferably Before the McCoy Era)...
FD> JD> The Outer Limits (the classic, original series)...
FD> JD> The Prisoner...
FD> JD> Blake's Seven...

FD>I've only seen Star Trek TOS from your list.  Got most of them on tapes.
FD>Regrettably though, can't say the same about the other four shows.
FD>Can you tell me a little about them?  I know Doctor Who is being mentioned
FD>quite often among SF fans, but I don't know anything about it.  With your
FD>help, I'll finally be able to lose the "I dunno" status permanently.
FD>Oh, and BTW, I assume these five shows are your personal favorites?

Describing each one in any kind of decent detail would probably take up
megs of messages, so I'll be really brief...

Doctor Who is the famous British SF series dealing with the travels of a
renegade Time Lord known as The Doctor through space and time (he lives
in a TARDIS which is a time/space vessel whose outer shell is frozen in
the shape of a police call box of the 1960s)... It is THE longest
running SF series in the history of television, having premiered in
late 1963... 8 actors have portrayed The Doctor over the years (when a
Time Lord comes near death, he can "regenerate" his body, change it into
a whole new persona--allowing new actors to take over the role... Each
new Doctor is uniquely different in appearance and style)... Because
it's BBC the series runs on a budget and has always relied more upon
writing and characterization than FX, making it quite a unique show...

The Outer Limits ran only 2 seasons in the 1960s (49 episodes) and has
over the years been extremely Under-rated in my opinion... Probably
because it was an anthology series and was overshadowed by The Twilight
Zone... Nevertheless, it was the first weekly SF tv series to take SF
Seriously... Extremely well-written episodes and uniquely crafted aliens
and concepts, it "took control of your television set" each week and
used wild camera angles and gimmicks to promote a claustrophobic and
usually terrifying atmosphere... Unlike the Twilight Zone (typically
that is!), it was an hour long and aimed at a very literate
audience--not at TZ's average man on the street...

The Prisoner was another British series... Honestly more of a borderline
SF series built around mystery and the bizarre in a futuristic place
known only as The Village...a prison where everyone has a number and not
a name... It focused on Number Six (John Drake? This would certainly
start an interesting thread here!), a retired secret agent--and the
efforts of Number Two (the Village's "mayor") to crack... Very weird in
parts, the episodes were concentrated and complex... It ran only 17
episodes and today is a true cult classic...

Blake's Seven is the newest of the 5 I've noted here... Another BBC
series aired in the late 70s/early 80s... Some 4 seasons I think... Set
in the distant future it dealt with rebels, led by Roj Blake, opposed to
a tyrannical Terran Federation... It starts interestingly enough with
prisoners seizing control of a prison ship, and then a mysterious alien
starship... What makes this special is the way the characters evolve
over the years--and the way some are dispatched from the series...
Heavily criticized and compared to Doctor Who, it's easily the least
popular of the 5 I've listed but I was fond of it...

FD> JD> That's offhand you understand... I could easily add 5+ more...
FD> JD> Babylon 5 comes to mind...

FD>Okay.  B5 is in your list of TOP 5 SF shows(current).  What are the
FD>other four? (give or take)

I don't even think that there Are 5 current SF series...unless you mean
old shows in syndication being rerun... Of the current ones I'm aware of
I'm not that crazy over them... I watch the two Trek series (V and DS9)
but the former is in sad shape... The new Outer Limits on Showtime I
like, though it doesn't quite live up to the original... The X Files I
liked during its first season or so but now it's become rather boring...
Babylon 5's easily the most powerful current series (and I can hardly
wait for new episodes)... Space: Above and Beyond I was beginning to
enjoy before it was canceled... What else is there?


 * OLXWin 1.00a * STARDATE 7312.31 APPROVED BY GENE RODDENBERRY-ST Blueprints


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 Msg  : 487 of 584
 From : James Dixon                         1:2604/309      .ÿò 20 .åí 96 18:51
 To   : David Johnston
 Subj : Re: V: Flashback...
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

DJ>-> They weren't replicated eggs... You remember all that talk over
DJ>-> replicator rations and all... For the record, they were Porakan eggs
DJ>-> picked up by Neelix on Porakas IV ("the most flavorful eggs in the
DJ>-> sector!")... Though he did have to sterilize them in a cryostatic
DJ>-> chamber (whatever that is) for three days, and then each one of them
DJ>-> had to be parboiled inside the shell...

DJ>A cryostatic chamber would be a freezer.

Well, they might've said so in the first place... Cryostatic? Why not
Cryonic or Cryogenic or, as they're fond of, Cryostasis?


 * OLXWin 1.00a * The Fans keep Trek alive and CARE more for it than P'mount


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 Msg  : 488 of 584
 From : James Dixon                         1:2604/309      .ÿò 20 .åí 96 18:52
 To   : Leman Russ
 Subj : Re: V: FLASHBACK...
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

LR> Data stopped giving long periods of time tothe precise second because
LR>helearned it annoyed people. Maybe Tuvok learned to round things off too.
LR>>:[

Maybe... It's easily the least of my problems with the series though!


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 Msg  : 489 of 584
 From : James Dixon                         1:2604/309      .ÿò 20 .åí 96 18:53
 To   : Leman Russ
 Subj : Re: V: Flashback...
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

LR> Ifyou really want flames, go to the SF echo, area #130. Boy, if you don;t
LR>agree with people about Heinlein, FLAME ON!!!
LR>>:[

Fortunately I don't have access to it... I'm happy here anyhow... Just
as long as the usual Fight-o moderator beasts don't stick their heads in
here from the Trek dictatorship conferences...


 * OLXWin 1.00a * Trekker in pon farr seeks Trekkess for bonding - leave e-mail


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 Msg  : 490 of 584
 From : James Dixon                         1:2604/309      .ÿò 20 .åí 96 18:54
 To   : Leman Russ
 Subj : Re: Favourite Trek movie
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

LR> Remember that Betazoidss have strongempathic and telepathis abilities, and
LR>Suter was a total psycho. That's probably why melding with him gave Tuvok su
LR>problems.
LR>>;[

I thought about that, too... I still don't buy it considering the
various telepaths Vulcans have mind-melded with (not to mention other
Vulcans!)... Tuvok should have been able to handle the meld...


 * OLXWin 1.00a * }Paramount Pictures = The Ferengi Alliance{


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 Msg  : 491 of 584
 From : James Dixon                         1:2604/309      .ÿò 20 .åí 96 18:56
 To   : Leman Russ
 Subj : Re: SF IN GENERAL
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

LR> Yeah, the original OL was great. Too bad showtime ----ed it up.
LR>>:[

I still have my hopes up... The control voice is still there (though not
voiced by Vic Perrin) and the overly flashy title sequence and music
score I can live with...provided the writing doesn't worsen... The new
show Does have some fine writers--they even adapted Larry Niven's short
story "Inconstant Moon" and did a fine job of it... When this episode
was aired I had this deja vu feeling about it, that I saw or read it
somewhere before... I said to myself "Inconstant Moon" has an almost
Nivenish feel to it--a short story... So I dug through my anthology
collections and there it was in the big "N-Space" book...

The worst job I've seen was probably the remake of "I, Robot"... Totally
uncalled for and ridiculously modernized...it had all the marks of how
Not to remake a classic episode... They changed the roots of the plot,
they made the robot into a heartless killer, they took away the cozy and
warmth to this story, and the sympathy... Leonard Nimoy starred in both
versions--in this one his son directed...

Then there's "White Light Fever" which I can't figure out Why it got
made in the first place... This is the closest the Outer Limits ever
came to a Fantasy episode... Looked more suitable for The Twilight
Zone...


 * OLXWin 1.00a * Keniclius*Khan*Charon*Green*Soljenov*Thorsen


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 Msg  : 492 of 584
 From : Kay Shapero                         1:102/524       .ÿò 20 .åí 96 16:03
 To   : Pavel Viaznikov
 Subj : B-5
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Sep 20 00:26>, Pavel Viaznikov (2:5020/185.9) wrote to Kay Shapero:

 PV>...BTW, who got the other Nebulas?

No idea, but the B5 episode "The Coming Of Shadows" just won a Hugo, as
presented at the last Worldcon.  I've seen a post listing the other Hugo winners
somewhere on the net but unfortunately I didn't keep a copy.

--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

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 Msg  : 493 of 584
 From : Frank Glover                        1:2613/477      .óá 21 .åí 96 17:15
 To   : Brandon Wolgast
 Subj : Re: Homeboys/Trek
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

BW>  shuttle crafts, torpedos, etc., yet Trek is not "something else."  B5
BW>  has hyperspace but it's not Star Wars, just like Lucas "stole"
BW>  hyperspace from Isaac Asimovs novels which is the earlier I've seen
BW>  hyperspace written about (of course I'm positive somewhwere it's even
BW>  before that).

   You quite probably have. Hyperspace was `invented' by mathematicians. It
represents a fourth spatial dimension, at right angles to the familiar three.
Presumably it could be used as a shortcut between points in normal space that
would be the equivalent of FTL travel. Wether the real Universe works this way
or not isn't clear, neither can we say how we'd gain access to it if it does,
but real mathematics is where *all* notions of hyperspace originate....

   Asimov knew this well. It was one of many science questions he addressed in
his non-fiction book `Please Explain.'

   Frank


--- QuickBBS 2.85 (Beta-2) GoldBase
 * Origin: The Matrix Data Bank BBS, Rochester, Ny (1:2613/477)

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 Msg  : 494 of 584
 From : Michael Harper                      1:123/10        .óá 21 .åí 96 11:51
 To   : Christopher Lee
 Subj : Space Truckers!
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
While sipping a dry martini, Christopher Lee told All about
Space Truckers!...

 CL> A couple of weeks ago on  Entertainment Tonight  they showed
 CL> Dennis Hopper making a movie called "Space Truckers".

 I've seen an article on it in Cinefantastique... looks fair. We'll
 see...

 CL> Anybody know if it has anything to do with John DeChancie's
 CL> "Skyway" Trilogy?

 Don't think so, except in spirit; these are supposed to be longhaul
 space freighters instead of actual trucks. I've got the info someplace;
 I'll try to find it and post it to you.


... "Sliding between parallel Earths doesn't bother you, but flying does?"
--- RA/FD/FMail
 * Origin: The Eclectic Fox -- Memphis TN  (901)327-1008 (1:123/10)

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 Msg  : 495 of 584
 From : Bill Clements                       1:18/230        .ÿò 20 .åí 96 17:55
 To   : Todd Sullivan
 Subj : SUPPRESSORS/FIREARMS
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
From the desk of a cynical old man...

Posted 16 Sep 96 - Todd Sullivan to Bill Clements

 BC> I suspect that a rocket based round would be quite practical and
 BC> inexpensive, even the gyrojet (though spin stabilization isn't
 BC> necessary in vacuum), were it mass produced.

 TS> One problem I've seen mentioned (/when/ mentioned) is that of the bullet
 TS> still accelerating at point-blank to very short ranges.

There is an age old solution to the abovementioned problem. As a
matter of fact the solution is the reason that I much preferred
the M14 to the AR15A1 or the M16. I look favorably on the
concepts of long reach and authoritative mass when I must work
with a bayonet. The bayonet would be a more fearsome weapon in
suited combat than it is here on terra firma. This also has the
makings of a wonderful plot device.

 TS> The point in favor of the G-11 concept is that it's a light bullet--about
 TS> 4mm--which doesn't require a lot of propellant, and is relatively
 TS> maintenance-free.  Another point in its favor is its firing method
 TS> (rotating chamber, allowing 1000 RPM) and the use of caseless ammo, which
 TS> would obviate standard rounds and their cases, which could cause problems
 TS> in zero and/or very low gravity.

I haven't attempted to keep up with current/proposed military
technology. Light caseless rounds are a good idea. Personally
I'd like to take a long hard look at the rotating chamber
implementation (sounds like a maintenance nightmare) before
endorsing it.

 TS> Example:  Even 5.56mm (.223 Rem) has one heck of a recoil, while the 4mm
 TS> (.17 cal, IIRC) has very little by comparison.

I'm quite familiar with the 5.56mm. As a matter of fact in the
early 1970s I had a TC Contender rechambered from .222 Remington
to 5.56mm to take advantage of the market glut of cheap surplus
brass and ammo.

I left active duty in 1969 as:


  SP4 Robert W Clements AUS RVN Campaign/Service 1969
  3rd. Platoon (Weapons)
  Headquarters and Main Support Company
  7th. Maintenance Battalion
  9th. Logistical Command (Combat Support)
  United States Army Support Thailand

--rwc

... "A committee is a life form with six or more legs and no brain." --LL

--- PPoint 2.00 / QWK

--- FLAME v1.1
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 Msg  : 496 of 584
 From : Glenn Shaheen                       1:3600/7        .åò 19 .åí 96 07:07
 To   : Bobby Rissler
 Subj : Trek movies
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

BR>  Yes, but if they take place at the same time, they should at least have
BR>moree things in common with The Next Generation.  Voyager has much higher
BR>technology than the enterprise, but the enterprise is the flagship of the
BR>federation.

        But the Voyager was made after the Enterprise, so you'd expect
it'd have a higher technology.
-=-
 * OLX 2.2 * "He learned to read using alphabet soup."

--- SLMAIL v3.5C  (#1540)
 * Origin: Robotech [904] 758-9477 * Fansubbed anime available! (1:3600/7)

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 Msg  : 497 of 584
 From : Jeff Hancock                        1:3600/7        .ÿò 20 .åí 96 16:28
 To   : Henry Triplett
 Subj : Sailor Moon
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

HT>[Video short w/Mme. Takeuchi]
HT>Sounds like a plan.  I'll probably get in an order later this month

Delta is ready when you are.

HT> JH> At least you're not living with C-ko!
HT>I'm afraid that I haven't met that lady. :)

Well... try imagining Usagi, age eight, and you might be close.  ;)

I've got two music videos involving footage from the Project A-ko
movies, and both of them feature C-ko prominently.  One of them is "Cry
So Easily" (now THAT was a given), and the other is "Think" (snicker),
both by Erasure.

HT> (BTW, were we talking about Serena above?)

I believe we were.

HT> JH> manifested itself as that Moonlight Knight character (whom I
HT>IIRC, he shows up in episodes shortly after Sailor Moon wastes Queen

Well, yes, because her use of the Ginzushou fried his memories, that
much I knew.  So part of his personality fragmented.  Some comments I
saw more recently said they thought that story idea wasn't properly
handled and could have been told in a more interesting manner.

HT>Looks like a "Lawrence of Arabia" type in white robes with a mask
HT>covering the lower part of his face.  He's armed with white roses and

Huh.  Interesting.  Kind of trying for the opposite of Tux.

HT> JH> I think I'd be a little ticked off too, even if one would have
HT> JH>wanted to save her anyway.
HT>Yeah!  He starts acting like it too late in the DIC episodes.  I
HT>assume it's caused by Negaverse action, but the dubs stop before we

I guess this would be second season you're referring to?  I really don't
know exactly how that pans out, but the dubs do stop about halfway
through the second season.

HT>find out.  Raye also gives Serena some business about 'why shouldn't
HT>he have his own life?' Don't know if this leads to anything either.

One would assume they virtually have to get together in the end, one way
or the other.  I mean, the R movie is supposed to be after the second
season.  <g>

I didn't know about that line when I put it in Sailor Babylon, but it's
nice to know I was thinking along the right track.  ;-)

HT> JH> To quote JMS: "I hate you.  I really, really hate you."
HT>On behalf of the moon...I shall thank you! <evil grin>

And the thanks have been returned, with interest.
-=-
 * Crazy-J * If Barbie's so popular,why do ya have to buy her friends?

--- SLMAIL v3.5C  (#1540)
 * Origin: Robotech [904] 758-9477 * Fansubbed anime available! (1:3600/7)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 498 of 584
 From : James Dixon                         1:2604/309      .óá 21 .åí 96 15:13
 To   : Kay Shapero
 Subj : Japanese SF
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

KS>KS> PM> Hahaha...  Well, I've noticed a lack of females in this echo.

KS>KS>Oh there are a few of us around...

KS> JD>The question is whether or not the females are bonded...

KS>James Bonded?  :->

Not yet... And the way things are going, not much of a chance it
seems...

Today's my birthday and I'm spending it in a half-depressed state of
mind...


 * OLXWin 1.00a * Federation-Star League-Ascension-Adamant-Nichter


--- WM v3.10/93-0747
 * Origin: Plain Brown Wrapper BBS-Cresskill NJ.(201)569-6685  (1:2604/309)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 499 of 584
 From : David Johnston                      1:342/14        .cê 22 .åí 96 00:45
 To   : Funky Diva
 Subj : Space: Above And Beyond
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
-> S:AaB just started airing here.  We're up to episode 4 now.  I liked
-> the pilot and the fourth one (mutiny on board; Hawkes finds his
-> genetic sibling, and reluctantly kills her at the end).  It's
-> borderline SF at best, but for the time being, I'm enjoying it.

What borderline?  It has some inaccuracies, but by comparison with any
other series it seems solidly science fictional.


-> The 58 squadron leader (forgot his name) said the invitros are not
-> born until they're 18.  What, they keep the invitros in the tank for

I have to assume he meant physical, not calendrical age.

--- PCBoard (R) v15.21/100
 * Origin: Freddy's Place - Edm. AB - 33.6K (403) 413-3460 (1:342/14)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 500 of 584
 From : Bobby Rissler                       1:270/435       .ÿò 20 .åí 96 15:44
 To   : David Little
 Subj : New Star Wars movies
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 DL>         I *SEVERLY* doubt it. Why don't you try
 DL> talking directly to Steve
 DL> Perry or Steven Sansweet. You might also try reading
 DL> "The Making of SOTE" and
 DL> it will confirm that they will not make it into a movie.
 BR> I was there when they were talking about the movie and all.  This
 BR> was about two weeks ago.  If you would have been
 BR> at a convention where
 BR> they gave this presentation you would have heard the same thing.

 DL>         If you asked the people in this echo, namely the moderators, they
 DL> will tell you STOE will not be made into a movie.

   OK, try to understand that I was at a convention where one of the producers
said that they were making plans to make SOTE a movie.  Just wait and see.

--- Maximus 3.01
 * Origin: The Good News BBS  Bowmansville, PA (1:270/435)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 501 of 584
 From : Bobby Rissler                       1:270/435       .ÿò 20 .åí 96 15:47
 To   : David Johnston
 Subj : Trek Movies
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

-> Yes, but if they take place at the same time, they should at least
-> have moree things in common with The Next Generation.  Voyager has
-> much higher technology than the enterprise, but the enterprise is the
-> flagship of the federation.

 DJ> Actually the Enterprise is rubble but that's beside the point.  The
 DJ> meaningless label "Flagship of the Federation" can as easily be applied
 DJ> to the oldest operating ship as the most advanced one.  The Enterprise
 DJ> is the bigger ship with the better reputation.  After all, the Voyager
 DJ> went out on one mission and vanished.  Hardly an impressive record.

   Yeah, I guess you're right.  Nobody else knows what happened to them.

--- Maximus 3.01
 * Origin: The Good News BBS  Bowmansville, PA (1:270/435)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 502 of 584
 From : Frank Swarbrick                     1:104/825       .óá 21 .åí 96 16:13
 To   : Leman Russ
 Subj : Re: New Star Wars movies
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12  92-0022
On 09-17-96  04:32, shipwrecked and comatose, Leman Russ said:

 LR> Just after star wars became the megahit of history, Mark Hamil
 LR> bought a new corvette stingray to celebrate, got drunk and ended up
 LR> having his face splattered on the windshield.

 LR> It took quite of bit of surgery but his face was more or less
 LR> restored. if you look at him in SW and then in TESB you'll notice the
 LR> difference.
 LR> While the surgery restored his face it did not age well, acocunting
 LR> for hamils appearance in later years.

This, of course, was explained by his attack by that snow monster
thing at the beginning of The Empire Strikes Back.

I did notice it, though, when TESB was released, even before I heard
about the accedent.

        Frank

... "How will this end?"  "In Fire..."
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12
 * Origin: The Bailey Information Exchange BBS, 28.8k v.fc  (1:104/825.0)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 503 of 584
 From : Frank Swarbrick                     1:104/825       .óá 21 .åí 96 16:14
 To   : David Little
 Subj : New Star Wars Movies
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12  92-0022
On 09-18-96  08:23, shipwrecked and comatose, David Little said:

 DL> -=< Mark Jones used the Jedi Mind Trick on me!>=-

 MJ> I still believe that they will never actually *do* a new trilogy of
 MJ> films--not unless George Lucas hands the project to someone else.
 MJ> All of the talk and rumors about the new project "any day--er,
 MJ> year--now" has been just that:  talk.  Rumor.

 DL> Incorrect. The first episode script is complete, casting is in
 DL> it's final stages and be wrapping up in a month or so, and filming is
 DL> scheduled to begin next spring.

I read that the next James Bond movie is being shot in some place (an
old airport hanger??) next year, and after that clears out they will
film the new Star Wars movie there.  Sounds like it's in England, but
I'm not sure if that was specifically stated.

        Frank

... Her love was like a wave-division multiplexor.
___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12

--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12
 * Origin: The Bailey Information Exchange BBS, 28.8k v.fc  (1:104/825.0)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 504 of 584
 From : Stephen Fox                         1:106/7008      .óá 21 .åí 96 20:49
 To   : Christopher Lee
 Subj : Space: Above and Beyond
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE 1.11+

 CL> I forget the specifics but the Invitros are rapidly aged to the
 CL> physical age of 18 and then they are "born". The invitro angle is
 CL> explored further in later episodes.

I was pretty much under this impression as well.  Since they appear as 18-yr
olds, they are, for all intents and purposes, 18 (even though they are not).
I just didn't understand why they didn't have a normal belly button (instead
of the one behind their neck.  After all, God engineered the belly button for
our development.

 CL> --- PPoint 2.00 * Origin: Occam's Razor... San Antonio, Tx

Christopher, I see you are from San Antonio.  Can I get the number of Occam's
Razor from you (for a friend)?

Stephen Fox

... I am Bugs Bunny of Borg.  What's up, Collective?
.NOTE: IceEdit 2.00 K24107

---
 * Origin: Eternity Inc. Houston, TX, (1:106/7008)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 505 of 584
 From : Bruce Clark                         1:105/314       .óá 21 .åí 96 20:34
 To   : Brandon Wolgast
 Subj : Homeboys/Trek
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12  91-0012

-=> Quoting Brandon Wolgast to James Dixon <=-

--SNIP--

 BW> "something else."  B5 has hyperspace but it's not Star Wars, just like
 BW> Lucas "stole" hyperspace from Isaac Asimovs novels which is the earlier
 BW> I've seen hyperspace written about (of course I'm positive somewhwere
 BW> it's even before that).

--SNIP--

You're right, way before that. Anything that used FTL was hyper drive.
It didn't become Warp drive till Star Trek.


___ Blue Wave/386 v2.21

--- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12
 * Origin: COM-DAT BBS  (1:105/314.0)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 506 of 584
 From : Frank Glover                        1:2613/477      .cê 22 .åí 96 20:00
 To   : Glenn Shaheen
 Subj : Re: Trek movies
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

GS>  BR>  Yes, but if they take place at the same time, they should at
GS>  least have
GS>  BR>moree things in common with The Next Generation.  Voyager has much
GS>  higher
GS>  BR>technology than the enterprise, but the enterprise is the flagship
GS>  of the
GS>  BR>federation.
GS>          But the Voyager was made after the Enterprise, so you'd
GS>  expect
GS>  it'd have a higher technology.

   That ability to re-arrange dilithium crystals that Dr. Brahms (her hologram,
and the real Doc) said would be part of the next generation of starships. I'd
guess that Voyager's class of ship has that feature, among the bio-pack (as
opposed to iso-linear chip) based computers, and other features that have been
mentioned....

   Frank


--- QuickBBS 2.85 (Beta-3) GoldBase
 * Origin: The Matrix Data Bank BBS, Rochester, Ny (1:2613/477)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 507 of 584
 From : Phill Ash                           1:275/160       .cê 15 .åí 96 09:32
 To   : Frank Glover
 Subj : Klingons
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE 1.11+

 FG> Our first impression of Bajor came back in ST:TNG when Ensign Ro
 FG> Laren was introduced. That locality seemed rather impoverished, with
 FG> the implication that there were others.

        Wasn't that the 3rd moon of Valo 1??

 FG> But this was also just after the Cardassian occupation ended.
 FG> Things  may have been cleaned up by then, possibly with Federation
 FG> `foreign  aid.'

        Even so, I compare the Occupation to that of France during
        WWII...

        The monuments, buildings, (most of the) treasures were still
        there, just in the hands of the "enemy".


... As he wades through the buildings toward the center of town
---
 * Ôystertags v1.2 *

~~~ ReneWave v2.00 [NR]
--- Smile :)
 * Origin: * The Beast's Lair * (804)498-3070 * Va Beach VA * (1:275/160)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 508 of 584
 From : Phill Ash                           1:275/160       .îí 16 .åí 96 10:53
 To   : James Dixon
 Subj : V: Flashback...
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE 1.11+

 JD> Flashback...
 JD> SPOILER WARNING (are they needed here?)...

        Why should they?  It's not like we're gonna discover that
        Janeway is David Marcus' daughter or something (ooops!)














 JD> characters... I won't even begin to get into Paramount's waste of raw
 JD> Cash on reconstructing the Excelsior's bridge set, for how little it

        Waste?  They probably saved $3k by recycling the Movie set
        instead of building a new one.  $3k that could've been invested
        in PRODUCTION <sigh>

 JD> Excelsior officers were all cardboard, Captain Sulu included... This

        This, I could justify...  Coming from the memories of a Vulcan,
        I doubt the emotion would be accurately reflected.  It would've
        been nice if that had meen touched upon, though!

 JD> episode was a "forced" 30th anniversary episode whipped up to justify
 JD> featuring Sulu and friends...

        Reminiscient of "The Five Doctors"... A nifty idea, but poorly
        executed.

 JD> episode: Tuvok, a Vulcan, eating eggs (Vulcans are vegetarians), Kang
 JD> appearing looking just as ratty as in "Blood Oath" right down to the
 JD> ridges and uncombed hair (but Sulu recognized him right away--yah,
 JD> they're again saying that us fans should edit our memories of TOS!),

        I think we're also supposed to edit the fact that Mark Lenard's
        Klingon character and his "armada's" crew (ST:TMP) all had
        uniform ridges.

 JD> Tuvok is apparently ageless,

        It's Trek, only Humans age poorly <sigh>

 JD> and what's this about a raw recruit ensign
 JD> sleeping bunk bed style with a Senior Officer--in their Uniforms no
 JD> less!

        That whole segment was BS...  "resting prior to..."  HUH!?!  On
        duty means ON DUTY!  Moreso to a Vulcan!  Especially to one who
        wouldn't abandon his post after his captain had relieved him
        disciplinarily!

 JD> be a couple Months apart as Spock states... Then again Tuvok rounded
 JD> this whole era down to "approximately 80 years ago" when, Treknically,

        Vulcans approximating!?!

        Howzabout "They didn't have replicators, they didn't have
        holodecks..."


From the Office of the DeathMaster General...
... Left to die by two good friends.  Abandoned me and put to sleep
---
 * Ôystertags v1.2 *

~~~ ReneWave v2.00 [NR]
--- Smile :)
 * Origin: * The Beast's Lair * (804)498-3070 * Va Beach VA * (1:275/160)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 509 of 584
 From : Phill Ash                           1:275/160       .îí 16 .åí 96 10:53
 To   : Lis Carey
 Subj : Favourite Trek movie
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE 1.11+

 LC> The Nomad episode is called "The Changeling". Large parts of the V'ger
 LC> storyline from ST:TMP appear to be lifted wholesale from the TOS
 LC> episode "The Changeling".

        ...which is really sad considering the amount of potential shown
        in the original brief by Alan Dean Foster (which can be found on
        ppg 59-60 of _The Making of Star Trek: The Motion Picture_ by
        Sackett & Roddenberry).

        It was based on "Robot's Return", a draft for an episode of
        Roddenberry's ill-fated "Genesis II".  Foster wrote a 17-page
        draft titled "In Thy Image" which was rewritten (several times)
        by Roddenberry.   Harold Livingston, then pounded it into script
        form.

        With the cancellation of the Star Trek II project and the launch
        of the ST:TMP project, the script was again rewritten and
        rejected by the Paramount BigWigs (they didn't like the idea of
        a Living Machine).  Finally, an article in Penthouse magazine,
        in which Dr Robert Jastrow (director of the Goddard Institute
        for Space Studies) suggested that machine life was possible and
        likely, convinced the BigWigs to go ahead.


From the Office of the DeathMaster General...
... I've been living on the edge so long, where the winds of limbo roar
---
 * Ôystertags v1.2 *
~~~ ReneWave v2.00 [NR]
--- Smile :)
 * Origin: * The Beast's Lair * (804)498-3070 * Va Beach VA * (1:275/160)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 510 of 584
 From : Kay Shapero                         1:102/524       .cê 22 .åí 96 19:03
 To   : Bill Clements
 Subj : SOUND SUPRESSORS
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Sep 19 16:15>, Bill Clements (1:18/230) wrote to Leman Russ:

 BC>From the desk of a cynical old man...
 BC>
 BC>"Moving parts in rubbing contact require lubrication to avoid
 BC>excessive wear. Honorifics and formal politeness provide
 BC>lubrication where people rub together. Often the very young, the
 BC>untraveled, the naive, the unsophisticated deplore these
 BC>formalities as "empty," "meaningless," or "dishonest," and scorn
 BC>to use them. No matter how "pure" their motives, they thereby
 BC>throw sand into machinery that does not work too well at best."
 BC>
 BC>                                             -- Mr. Justice Lenox
 BC>

Thank you!  I'd been using a similar analogy for at least 20 years (comparing
politeness in society to the oil in an automobile), without being aware of this
quote.  Saved for future reference (and so I can go look up the source.)

BTW - as you've doubtless discovered by this time frequently you simply aren't
permitted the luxury of acting on 100% information, because either it's simply
not available, or because waiting to gather it will carry you past the time by
which you MUST make a decision, thus leaving it to default.  Which is why such
terms and phrases as 'indications are", "probably" or "In my humble opinion."
also come in handy.

Also the more potentially insulting the request, the more careful you should be
with your phrasing.  When you told Leman Russ to go broaden his education, you
*did* sound kinda pompous... :->

--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 511 of 584
 From : Kay Shapero                         1:102/524       .cê 22 .åí 96 19:10
 To   : James Dixon
 Subj : SF shows in America
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Sep 20 18:26>, James Dixon (1:2604/309) wrote to Funky Diva:


 JD>Blake's Seven is the newest of the 5 I've noted here... Another

Fun too.  I liked the way it took the old cliche of the gutter sweepings of the
galaxy banding together to challenge the evil rulers and stood it on it's ear by
having them ACT like the gutter sweepings of the galaxy for a change...  :->
And I still maintain Vila took a dive...

Come to think of it, you might like this...
 VILA; THE ONE WHO GOT AWAY
    Words & Tune: Kay Shapero


     Am  Em       Am              Dm         Am
Upon the world of Gauda Prime the Federation said
    Dm           Am        E7
The crew of Liberator were vanquished and are dead
    Am               Em           Am                  G
But not all hope has vanished and there are those who say
     C         F                G            C
That Liberator flies again with one who got away.

    G7              C
And some say it was Avon
    G7              C
And some say it was Blake;
         G           C
But it's only me and ORAC
        F           G7
They're making a mistake
   Am             E7
If I spoke up and told them
    Am              G7
I'd spoil all their cheer
     C             F
So I do my bit for liberty...
  G            C
I have another beer.

How I survived's a simple tale; I fell like I was dead
And once they were distracted I crawled back out and fled
I left that world with ORAC and never did look back
For that makes you more visible and open to attack.

  And some folks speak of Jenna
  Out building up a crew
  But it's only me and ORAC
  The two of us will do.
  Let others plot in secret
  From Terminal to here
  But I do my bit for liberty...
  I have another beer
I find it quite amusing as I rove from star to star
To hear the things now whispered in every spaceport bar
For soon they may be shouted by all who would be free
And follow revolution's call to final victory.

  But no-one mentions Vila
  And that's just fine with me
  I'll pass on "Death or Glory"
  I'm happy to be free
  So I just sit and listen
  While others plan or cheer
  And I do my bit for liberty....
  I have another beer!

Words and music copyright Kay Shapero, 1991


--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 512 of 584
 From : Jeff Hancock                        1:3600/7        .óá 21 .åí 96 15:00
 To   : Bruce Clark
 Subj : Battle Angel!
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

BC> CC>have gotten into Anime and I saw a movie called Battle Angel in
BC> JH> ...Just checked some of my inadequate reference files, and the
BC>According to "The Complete Anime Guide" there is only the one tape
BC>with the two titles on it.

Is this hardcopy or electronic?

I have a number of files, seem to mostly be compiled by fans, with
various info.  Also picked up "The Anime Movie Guide" at the bookstore,
which covers movies and OVAs released since about 1980, and have been
browsing through that for the past week or two.

Incidentally, for the hack-watchers, seems there was something called
"Odin" which had a full FORTY-FIVE minutes taken out of it when it was
dubbed for the U.S. market.

Also, for those interested, the U.K. releases sound as if they usually
get WORSE treatment than anime in the U.S.  Usually censored more, or
worse dubbing/translation, was at least one mention of a subtitle that
added more profanity and such than was present in the original.

Kind of like the way A.D.Vision translated Gunsmith Cats, I suppose,
from what small amount I can decipher.  (Baka means IDIOT, people, not
A$$h@le!)
-=-
 * Crazy-J * Better to love a short girl than to never love a'tall...

--- SLMAIL v3.5C  (#1540)
 * Origin: Robotech [904] 758-9477 * Fansubbed anime available! (1:3600/7)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 513 of 584
 From : Jeff Hancock                        1:3600/7        .óá 21 .åí 96 15:30
 To   : Michael Harper
 Subj : Japanese SF           1/2
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

MH> JH> need to ask them if they're overcompensating or if Disney HAS
MH> JH>grabbed them all.
MH> I'm heading down to Dallas for the weekend, but I should be able to
MH>get to a library to check through back copies of HR and Variety... or
MH>I could just call Disney and ask...

Feel free if you like, I don't want to attract their attention.  ;)

Although I guess I could visit their web page, if I can stand it, see if
there's anything relevant on there.

MH> JH> They're going to have trouble with Pon Poko Tanuki, that's for
MH> JH>sure! The raccoons (shapeshifters) do some rather ... creative
MH> JH>things with their genitals.
MH> So I've gathered...

It's quite odd, and I can't help but wonder if this was another part of
Japanese myth, or something they came up with.  One poster in Anime
jokingly suggested that they did it to keep Disney from ever taking them
over.  ;)

The thing is, it's not exactly _explicit_.  Usually they shapechange
into cartoon forms or whatnot, but the genital thing usually involves
making objects out of their privates; aside from the fact said objects
happen to be connected between their legs one might not instantly draw
that conclusion if it was taken out of dialogue.  The closest analogue
scene is one where the males are attacking the humans, and turn their
genitals into what look like giant boulders at least five times as big
as they are.

That whole business aside, there seems to be some speculation on what
the movie is really _about_.  I've seen various interpretations
including:

        * It's a eco-movie illustrating how man is destroying the
environment in his relentless pursuit of "progress".

        * It's a parable where the raccoons, knowing full well that
their shrinking habitat can't support a growing population and deciding
not to continue reproducing wantonly, end up doing so anyway, and this
is an analogy for humans continuing to breed and overcrowding the planet
beyond its ability to support them.

        * It represents Japan (?) and how a lesser civilization is
frequently forced to assimilate itself in the culture and ways of its
greater, more powerful neighbors in order to continue to survive at all.

        * Some other explanation I didn't quite understand and can't
really repeat, something involving the political situation when the
director graduated from college and how the mode of thought there left
him completely unprepared to deal with the "real world" in that respect
- something involving communists, and there was at least one claimed
allusion to such in the movie, something about a human in Soviet Guard
uniform or some such.

Of course others would probably look at it and just see another
Disney-like film with talking animals.  ;-)  I guess I could see the
first three viewpoints at least, although the first two are the only
ones that originally occurred to me when I watched it.

MH> Maybe. I'd like to see them try to do it right, but it's not too
MH>likely. Even though they swear otherwise, I'm still convinced that

I've heard some rumors lately, something about dubbed versions of some
of the Miyazaki films being created for showing in-flight, on JAL
airlines?  Anyway, the rumor says that Disney acquired and would be
releasing that version, which may be more accurate than anything they
would do.  It's probably a given that unless they think it'll offend
someone, they'd go with an existing dub rather than redo their own.

It'll definitely be funny to see what they do if they release Pon Poko
Tanuki.  They'd probably try to get away with some of the "creative"
shapeshifting, but people who _knew_ would talk about it and the rumors
would be making the media, while Disney frantically denied that anything
remotely similiar to that was actually happening.  ;-)

MH>_Lion King_ is a rip of Kimba... Until I see both, nothing's gonna
MH>make me change my mind; the similarities are too great.

I heard one person say that it was the Japanese animators which
originally "took" the idea of the "Bambi-eyes", and that Disney was just
acknowledging that by borrowing in return.  Uh huh, yeah, sure, whatever
you say buddy.  <g>

MH> JH> I saw a few clips of Tank Police in a video or two from the
MH> Story was pretty good; fairly straightforward Masamune. Two eps per

Sounds like fun, alright.

MH>Sisters are a big part of that one. Problem with it is that the story
MH>seems a bit - hell, a LOT - disjointed. You'd have to see it...

So, it fits in line with what I keep hearing about Akira and GitS?  <G>

MH> JH> Saw the first Dragon Knight, didn't much care for it.  It looked
MH> JH> Haven't seen the second, was it any better?
MH> Not really. A bit more sex and nudity, not much more story. Chicklet

Heh.  Figures.  ;)

MH>who's running around with Takeru in this one is a short,
MH>boyish-looking little thing when she's clothed, and has the body of a
MH>Bunny when she's naked. Typical. The ending was an obvious setup for
MH>the next one...

Yep, figures.  "As long as it sells..."  ;>

MH> JH> That may not be their fault.  Japanese porn laws DO exist, and
MH> JH>So it could just be that way in the original.  (the entire body?)
MH> It was a closeup shot, and the target area, as it were, was
MH>completely blacked out. They cut from him licking empty air to a shot

Ah.  About what I would have expected, all things considered.

My usual opinion on that is one can get much dirtier with the right
implications, rather than having to show the details.  But there'll
always be a market for those with little imagination.  ;)

MH>of her face, eyes the size of dinner plates, screaming his name...

So she wasn't exactly turned on by it, I trust.

MH> Not too likely. But there is porno anime out there; Cream Lemon, for

Yep, I know about the Cream Lemons, haven't been able to acquire any
yet, though.

Another infamous one I've always wanted to see is one of the Urotsoki
Doji OVAs or films.  The catch there seems to be that the only ones
available individually are the hacked dubs (which are apparently still
pretty disgusting), to get the unedited subtitle you have to buy the
_entire_ five-tape set.  And for something which I may not be able to
tolerate ;) that's a bit much.

But I do feel like I should see it at least once, just as a point of
reference so I'll know what's being talked about when it's used as
comparison.  <g>

Oh, and another one I picked up from the Anime Movie Guide is something
called "Violence Jack".  This one is allegedly so utterly gross-out,
in terms of violence, not sex, that "short clips of it have caused
die-hard Urotsoki Doji fans to leave the room".  Heh.

"But, really, how bad could it possibly be?"  <G>

 >>> Continued to next message

-=-
 * Crazy-J * I knew the time was ripe when it fell off of the tree.

--- SLMAIL v3.5C  (#1540)
 * Origin: Robotech [904] 758-9477 * Fansubbed anime available! (1:3600/7)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 514 of 584
 From : Jeff Hancock                        1:3600/7        .óá 21 .åí 96 15:30
 To   : Michael Harper
 Subj : Japanese SF           2/2
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 >>> Continued from previous message
MH> JH> I'll have to give it a try, but this is a pretty low-end town in
MH> JH>terms of diversity.  We don't even have a decent bookstore, just
MH> Gotta remedy that... You'd think Houston would be a very diverse and
MH>interesting place...

It probably is, but I'm in Lake City, FL.  What with the hurricane
knocking out power in North Carolina, where the SE regional Fidonet host
is, I did a little calling around to pick up some of the lost mail.

MH> Yep. _President's Analyst_, with James Coburn. I'd forgotten about
MH>the scene in the wheatfield with Jim and the chick, where her dress

Sounds like a hoot!

MH> JH> Ah, but did you come up with better arguments for if you should
MH> JH>ever get placed in that situation again?  ;)
MH> Not really... :/

Ummmm... then did you at least get the arguments to use for yourself in
a similar situation?  Or were they gender-specific?  ;)

MH> land in a body of water, they can take on reaction mass if they need
MH>to, which'll allow them to take off again if need be; and since the
MH>ships will have desalinization gear aboard, it'll be easy to produce

Nice forethought.  Hope you don't hit any "dumb questions" halfway
through that cause you to have to come up with a cheap excuse or
re-write the whole thing.  "But what about..."

MH> JH> So you expect the Mouse to get racier?  ;>
MH> Haw! The Mouse get racy? Not too bloody likely...

Then again there IS Touchstone Pictures and whomever else they use as a
front...
-=-
 * Crazy-J * I knew the time was ripe when it fell off of the tree.

--- SLMAIL v3.5C  (#1540)
 * Origin: Robotech [904] 758-9477 * Fansubbed anime available! (1:3600/7)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 515 of 584
 From : Jeff Hancock                        1:3600/7        .óá 21 .åí 96 15:51
 To   : Patty Moniz
 Subj : Japanese SF
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

PM> PM> JH> Do you think we could drag Mr. Wills in here along with us?
PM> JH> Why not?  It could be.... interesting.  ^_-
PM> Hahaha...  Well, I've noticed a lack of females in this echo.  What
PM>ever would he do?  O_O

Drag in the fictionals, of course!  B'lanna Torres, Ro Laran, Deanna
Troi, Kira Nerys-whatever...  then pull in Leia, Holly v2, Talia
Winters, Susan Ivanova, etc etc.

He'll find a way.  ;-)

PM> JH> No, no, we don't get the dub over here, and all I've found of
PM> Well, a little is better than nothing.  Some might think you
PM>incredibly lucky, to have been spared from the horror of the dub.  =)

Always an upside, eh?  Except I _have_ seen a little of it someone taped
for me a while back in the "Sailor Moon?  What the hell is that?" phase.
;)  If they hadn't included some originals, bad quality as they were, it
might never have gone beyond that stage.  <g>

PM> PM>over, with her but in the air. Makoto got a funny look on her face.
PM> JH> Sounds like it.  I've kind of been wondering about Makoto...
PM> JH>What with her temporary crush on Haruka and all.  <g>

PM> Actually, I think she might still have a crush on Haruka.  I could

Have you seen any of the episodes in question, and later?  I haven't
seen them subbed anywhere, although have thought about picking up a few
raw just to see and figure out what little I can.

Anyway, the description of some of the episode events someone posted in
Anime a while back made it sound like it was pretty much just a
temporary thing, she still likes guys and all.

Another interpretation is how some girls, at least in Japan ;), will
develop a kind of idol-worship on an older, more mature girl.  It kind
of seems like Haruka might be the type Makoto might want to be like in
at least some ways, if not others.  ;-)

PM>be wrong, though.  Haruka and Michiru are awsome!  They're rich,
PM>they're beautiful, they're powerful, and just plain cool. <G>  I wish

Rich?  Out of the three outer, and the visual of the fourth, I think I
kind of like Setsuna the best.  Dunno why.  Maybe it's that green hair.
<g>

PM>I had more with them in it.  All I've got is the S movie.  I want to
PM>know more about Setsuna, too.

Yep, that's all I've got too.  So where did you get your info on Haruka
and Makoto?

PM> JH> "weapons of love", like lipstick, nail polish, perfume...  I
PM> JH>guess it was intended as a parody of Sailor Moon taken to the
PM> Definately to the extreme.  <G>  Can you imagine a crossover?
PM>That's be pretty funny, actually.  "Moon Gorgious Meditation!"

It might give Barney diabetes.  ;>

Barbara's description says that the first subbed copy of "Peach Wedding"
"should" be available on September 1st, but so far it doesn't seem to
have been done yet.  I'll have to at least check it out when it is, if I
can find some way to handle the cuteness.  ;)

But then I didn't know if SM would fall on the good or bad side of
silly, for me, just from the talk, either.

PM> At least that one glowed like lightning.  But "Jupiter Oak
PM>Evolution"?! Since when did she have anything to do with wood?!  You
PM>can't go from something like lightning bolts to trees!

But lightning bolts GO to trees!  ^_^  It seems originally Jupiter, at
least in the manga, was associated with wood.  Dunno why.  I think I
read somewhere that one of her attacks involved leaves.

Elemental thing, I guess.

PM> LOL!  Yes, too much Chibi-Usa can make one sick.  I really want to

Well all I've seen are the R and S movies with her.  The S movie is kind
of rough-going in that respect (that Chibi-Moon transformation - aaack!)
but she seems fairly nice in the R movie.

Love that song though!  (just as long as I never _hear_ it!)

PM>see some of Stars, with Haruka-Papa and Michiru-Mama. ^_^  How cute,
PM>with baby Hotaru! Stars is supposed to focus on the Outers quite a

That's what I hear.  Barb's description says, quote:

===
If you got turned off by the adorable-but-annoying Chibi Moon who
dominated the SS season, then here is the GOOD stuff. Before we had the
Inner Senshi, then we got the Outer Senshi, then Chibi Usa, and now we
have three Asteroid Senshi, plus the return of the prophetic Saturn,
just when a terrible time-travel paradox threatens to kill Sailor Moon
(who has wings now!) -- and right when Mamoru is kidnapped and seduced
again by the same evil goddess we thought was defeated last season. A
darker, more adult Sailor Moon show, in which the adult senshi, Uranus,
Neptune, Saturn, and Pluto are central figures. (And yes, Uranus and
Neptune are a lesbian couple -- if you can't deal with that, then stick
to American cartoons.) In Japanese only, with original commercials
===

Be real nice if someone got around to subbing it soon, but even raw it
sounds like it might be fun.  ;)

-=-
 * Crazy-J * "My only enemy is me... And my old girlfriend... And..."

--- SLMAIL v3.5C  (#1540)
 * Origin: Robotech [904] 758-9477 * Fansubbed anime available! (1:3600/7)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 516 of 584
 From : Jeff Hancock                        1:3600/7        .óá 21 .åí 96 15:59
 To   : Patty Moniz
 Subj : Japanese SF
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

PM> But the beginning ones were horrible!  One of the things I hated
PM>most was how they tended to change a really sad or touching moment
PM>into something (supposedly) funny.  Like at the end of the first

That figures.  Can't have it get too downbeat, now could we?  <Grrrr>

PM>episode of R.  Usagi looked out into the night and said, "Bye bye
PM>normal Usagi." She was practically in tears, and Luna felt really

Ouch.  And I thought, in spite of it all, being SM had improved her
life.  But she really hated being different that much?

PM>first 4 episodes of R, subbed. Not all that much was changed, but

Hmmmmm... who from?  Any chance of a trade?  ^_-

PM> JH> A trader had the first 16 subs available.  Arctic Animation,
PM> Blagh!  AA sucks.

Amen.  But you take what you can get.  Anna's apparently getting copies
from laser, but I don't know if she's doing anything with them.

PM> JH> well as the scene where Usagi turns into a (punk) young adult
PM> Yeah!  I always wanted to see that;Usagi as a punk! Cool! :)

She looked pretty tame for the most part, as I recall, but she did have
this skunk stripe in her hair.  <g>

PM> JH> What's kind of funny, I don't think there's any actual nudity in
PM> Actually, there is a bit.  First, there's the nude transformations.

I guess it depends on how you look at it.  Even though the transforms
give some outline, I never really saw it as NUDE nude, if'n ya know what
I mean.

PM>Then, any shower or bath scenes.  A lot of panty shots.  There is

Don't know for sure about those.  I remember a bath scene where Usagi
had some cleavage, and a few shower scenes which hinted at but didn't
really SHOW much.

The casual attitude has kind of diminished my "shock factor" on that
sort of thing, though, so sometimes I tend to overlook "minor" things
that others would have a cow over.  ;)  "THAT WOMAN IS NEKKID!"  "Huh?
Oh, yeah, you're right, I hadn't really noticed that much..."  <g>

And on the panty thing, something I hadn't really thought much about
before, but if this is when they're in costume then it's just the bottom
portion of their "bodysuit", not really their panties.  If this is out
of costume, well....

PM>enough nudity to send parents into an uproar(which isn't very hard).

Must protect our helpless, innocent kiddies from cartoon boobies!  <g>

PM> JH> subs. Even so, the difference was... ARGH!
PM> [patting back]  It's ok.  Just always remember the original, and it
PM>will all be ok.  :)

If only I had more TO remember.  <g>
-=-
 * Crazy-J * I will write wrongs, and-- Whoops, that's DIC's line.

--- SLMAIL v3.5C  (#1540)
 * Origin: Robotech [904] 758-9477 * Fansubbed anime available! (1:3600/7)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 517 of 584
 From : Jeff Hancock                        1:3600/7        .óá 21 .åí 96 16:06
 To   : Henry Triplett
 Subj : Japanese SF
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

HT> PM>Moon, Mercury, and Jupiter were smooshed together in an alley,
HT>Saw this one again recently.  It was Zoiscite that they were facing.
HT>And y'all forgot the part where Sailor Moon nearly poked both Ami and
HT>Makoto in the eyes while trying to hurl her challenge at the foe.

BWAH-HAH-HAH-HAAAAA!

But I didn't forget, Henry - I never done SEEN it, remember?  :(

HT> JH>What with her temporary crush on Haruka and all.  <g>
HT>I suppose I should rise to Mako-chan's defense at this point.  Jeff,
HT>you should know better! <g>

I should?  But we're only speculating on her reactions!  She was the one
who did - what she did, after all!

HT>However, after seeing the episode again, I dunno.  Mako just stood
HT>there staring at Mercury's upraised tush.  Her eyes don't leave it
HT>once until Zoiscite says something to tick her off.  And the looks on

Someone get the hose!  <g>  Hmmmm, I don't know what to make of that
either.

HT>her face while she was staring (yes, she actually changes expression
HT>while staring at Mercury's er..dignity) were really strange.  I'm

Maybe Ami has a secret...  fluffy bunny panties?  Or, could it possibly
be.... NAH!  She wouldn't go starkers!  <snicker>

HT>hoping it's something that can be attributed to shock/surprise at
HT>seeing Ami screw up.  Ami doesn't screw up like that too often!

Could be that as well too.  I don't suppose you're going to ASK her?  Or
would that not be beneficial to life and limb?  ^_^

HT> JH>Perhaps there was a backlash against the excessive cuteness,
HT> JH>either from the public or the people creating it. ;)
HT>Heck!  After my experiences working on Sailor Babylon, I wouldn't be
HT>too surprised if it was a backlash by the characters themsleves! <g>

No kidding!  Sometimes they have a way of saying enough is enough...
otherwise I probably WOULD have had Susan say "LOVING...ATOMIC...
EVAPORATION!"

Or maybe it was a contractual dispute.  The little virus probably didn't
think she was getting paid enough.  <G>

-=-
 * Crazy-J * Kirk has 3 ears: left, right, and a final front ear!

--- SLMAIL v3.5C  (#1540)
 * Origin: Robotech [904] 758-9477 * Fansubbed anime available! (1:3600/7)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 518 of 584
 From : Jeff Hancock                        1:3600/7        .óá 21 .åí 96 16:10
 To   : Bruce Clark
 Subj : Japanese SF
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

BC>Where can a person get the SUBBED version?

From fansubbers if you're lucky.  There is no subtitled commercial
release.  Not much of a commercial release at all, aside from some
Toys'R'Us special which apparently ended a long time ago.

BC>VIZ SHOP-BY-MAIL doesn't have any of the Sailor Moon videos listed in
BC>the flyer I get from them.

Do they have other videos from DIC?  If not, then competition could
explain that. ;)

But the thing is, they just aren't out there, aside from fansubbers, who
don't seem to have done all that much either.  The first season is out
there, and some of the R season (not much, apparently).  I hear talk
about people doing the S season, but nothing more yet, aside from the R
and S movies.

I kind of get the impression everything thinks that someone ELSE is
going to do it.  <sigh>  It might be easier just to learn the language
and get the raw copies via import laserdisks.

-=-
 * Crazy-J * Dahring! Hands off the cheerleaders! <<ZZZZACCKKKK>>

--- SLMAIL v3.5C  (#1540)
 * Origin: Robotech [904] 758-9477 * Fansubbed anime available! (1:3600/7)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 519 of 584
 From : Jeff Hancock                        1:3600/7        .óá 21 .åí 96 16:17
 To   : Bruce Clark
 Subj : Japanese SF
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

BC> JH> Another weird one was "Here is Greenwood".  Someone showed up
BC> JH>who said she was a manga artist, and wanted two of the character

BC>The American version is: "An Artful Attack" and she (Peggy Jones /
BC>"Lani Lenei" [spelling?]) referres to herself as _a local artist_ who
BC>wants Darien and Serena to pose for her for a Prince and Princess

No, no, "Here is Greenwood" is a different series entirely.

Six half-hour OAV's. A young man moves away from home into the Greenwood
school dorm and finds a building of pranksters, zealots, freaks and
obsessives -- and a few real friends. Also a roommate who is a boy who
looks like a girl (or is it the other way around?) Wry comedy, drama,
and some romance in parts 5&6.

Rather weird happenings tend to go on in the series, it's sort of normal
with a bizarre kink to it.  Some college fraternities might consider it
pretty tame compared to their own, but I'm not qualified to speculate on
that.  <g>

It's being released commercially by Software Sculptors, and the first
tape is probably on sale now.

BC>Definately have to see the SUBBED episodes to see what I'm missing.

And that's assuming the translation is accurate - but it'd have to be
better than the DIC'ed up version!

BC>The episode _was_ "Americanized". If there was any nudity, it was
BC>covered up with a shower curtain and the cocoon the demon wrapped the

I don't remember any outright nudity, but rather thought the scene was
too borderline to be included in the dub.  Guess I was wrong.

BC>The bathtub scenes of Serena (Usagi) and Raye (Rei) only have vague
BC>outlines showing thru the water and the backside shot of Raye is
BC>covered by her hair.

I haven't seen anything particularly explicit in what I've seen of the
originals either.  I think someone once said the first REAL nudity that
appears in the series is somewhere later in the R season.

-=-
 * Crazy-J * "You can have the octopus, I hate the way it looks!"-Mink

--- SLMAIL v3.5C  (#1540)
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Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 520 of 584
 From : Jeff Hancock                        1:3600/7        .óá 21 .åí 96 16:20
 To   : Htom Trites
 Subj : Sailor Moon
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

HT>... I read this too quickly and thought it said
HT>Luna means the Dark Klingon.

Hmmm.... how bad would a Dark Klingon be, anyway?

Or if you consider their usual attitude, would a Dark Klingon actually
be a good, honest, moral and upright Klingon?

HT>And then had a horrifying thought:
HT>Sailor Klingon

Oooh!  Oooh!  Now I know what to do for the next part!

No, wait, Henry's doing that.  Besides, where would he come from?  <g>

Can't you just SEE the Duras sisters cavorting about in sailor fuku?
(yeah, so they're dead, so what?  This is Star Trek, for cryin' out loud!
Bring back their transporter patterns or sumfin)

HT>Thanks for the Sailor Babylon tales.

We're trying - sometimes VERY trying!

(oops, it was that line that STARTED this whole mess!)

-=-
 * Crazy-J * Back on topic? Ok, but my back's gonna be sore for days.

--- SLMAIL v3.5C  (#1540)
 * Origin: Robotech [904] 758-9477 * Fansubbed anime available! (1:3600/7)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 521 of 584
 From : Jeff Hancock                        1:3600/7        .óá 21 .åí 96 23:09
 To   : Kay Shapero
 Subj : Japanese SF
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

KS> PM> Hahaha...  Well, I've noticed a lack of females in this echo.
KS>Oh there are a few of us around...

Believe you me, if Henry doesn't get you into a Sailor fuku, David will!

.
.
.
.

er, Wills, that is .... David Wills will.  Yeah, that's it.  ^_^

-=-
 * Crazy-J * ....I was Mooned by Tsukino Usagi....      ;>~~~~~~~~~

--- SLMAIL v3.5C  (#1540)
 * Origin: Robotech [904] 758-9477 * Fansubbed anime available! (1:3600/7)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 522 of 584
 From : Jeff Hancock                        1:3600/7        .óá 21 .åí 96 23:55
 To   : Bruce Clark
 Subj : Japanese SF
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

BC> JH>  ! Origin: Robotech  -=-Fansubbed anime available upon request-=-
BC>Could I get the phone number for the Robotech BBS?

You ought to have it now.  ;)  Of course I could just netmail you a copy
of the list...

I'm kind of surprised no one's expressed interest in the "Captain
Harlock Vs." shorts.  Requires some suspension of disbelief, but there's
nothing quite like seeing a simulated battle between Harlock's ship and
a squadron of TIE fighters, not to mention a personal laser-sword duel
with Darth Vader himself.  <G>

Hmmm, about time I placed that request for some more Irresponsible
Captain Tailor, too....  and caught up on my Fushigi Yuugi!
-=-
 * Crazy-J * FOR X = 1 to 10; HEAD = HEAD + WALL; NEXT.

--- SLMAIL v3.5C  (#1540)
 * Origin: Robotech [904] 758-9477 * Fansubbed anime available! (1:3600/7)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 523 of 584
 From : Dave Ewen                           1:266/167       .cê 22 .åí 96 23:33
 To   : James Dixon
 Subj : SF shows in America
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

JD>The Prisoner was another British series... Honestly more of a borderline
JD>SF series built around mystery and the bizarre in a futuristic place
JD>known only as The Village...a prison where everyone has a number and not
JD>a name... It focused on Number Six (John Drake? This would certainly
JD>start an interesting thread here!), a retired secret agent--and the
JD>efforts of Number Two (the Village's "mayor") to crack... Very weird in
JD>parts, the episodes were concentrated and complex... It ran only 17
JD>episodes and today is a true cult classic...

My understanding was that the "village" was an isolated place created
by and under the control of some mysterious intelligence service for the
purpose of extracting information from the inhabitants, who were
various captured spys and others with strategic knowledge.

---
 þ SLMR 2.1a þ The doctors X-rayed my head and found nothing
 * Origin: Logan's Run Swedesboro,NJ USA 609-467-9649 (1:266/167)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 524 of 584
 From : Dave Ewen                           1:266/167       .cê 22 .åí 96 15:25
 To   : James Dixon
 Subj : Sulu on Voyager
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

JD>Well-said!

JD>This is the crux of the problem and why, after all these years, I can
JD>still go back to the old 79 episodes from the 60s and enjoy them even
JD>though I've seen them countless times before... They didn't need flashy
JD>FX, sophisticated-sounding technobabble... They were well-written
JD>stories with solid plots, characters, and meaningful storylines...

JD>The episodes of the past few years, on the other hand, fail to hold up
JD>after repeated viewings... The characters are so flat and undefined, and
JD>the stories so non-credible that it's like watching a cheap cartoon...


A number of TOS episodes were based on the works of classic SF writers.
I doubt that is the situation in the more modern SF series--I never see
any famous writers names when they roll the credits...

---
 þ SLMR 2.1a þ Lottery: A tax for people who don't understand statistics
 * Origin: Logan's Run Swedesboro,NJ USA 609-467-9649 (1:266/167)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 525 of 584
 From : Carin M. Armlin                     1:3621/14       .óá 21 .åí 96 08:54
 To   : FRANK GLOVER
 Subj : B-5
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
-=> Quoting Frank Glover to Carin M. Armlin <=-


 has all the scripts (or outlines at least) for all 5 seasons all

 CM>       typed up and saved on floppy disks, all encrypted, w/ only him
 CM>  knowing
 CM>       how to get to them.
 CM>       I hope that made sense.  Sorry.

 FG> It does. Let us hope he never dies or loses his decryption
 FG> passwords!
 FG> Frank

 No kidding!  Oh well.  Someone can just get a hacker to go in and get them
 then.  :)

 I have my VCR set to record Babylon 5 on Sundays now.  I've missed episodes
 for the last 3 months tho...*sigh*

 Carin


... My name is G'Kar.  You wrecked my planet.  Prepare to die!

___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20 [NR]
--- Synchronet+SBBSecho v1.22
 * Origin: niflheim - clarksville.tn 615.551.9285 (1:3621/14)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 526 of 584
 From : J.T. Smith                          1:132/152       .åò 19 .åí 96 00:51
 To   : Dave Ewen
 Subj : B-5
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.SPTH: Fidonet#1:132/152
From a man who's physically phht.

 DE> It occured to me that I have yet to see any scenes on B-5 that match
 DE> what I had assumed was the central premise of the program:
 DE> Who here can explain how this 'U.N. building in space' conducts the
 DE> business that is its central purpose? Of the few episodes I have seen
 DE> none of them seemed in any way related to such a ongoing purpose.

 Actually, the art of diplomacy more often takes place outside the conference
 room rather than within it.  Besides, we're dealing w/ alien races here,
 Our "diplomatic" methods and theirs are no doubt wholly different.

 DE> What happened to B-1, B-2, B-3, and B-4?  And who would ever believe
 DE> that the same project name would continue to be used after all these
 DE> failures?

 Babylon 1 through 4 were all destroyed in freak "accidents."  Well, actually
 I'm nae sure about 4 anymore.  Having missed that ep, I nae know the whole
 story.  And as was said in the two-hour movie that preceded the series, they
 kept the name because the human race is just so darned stubborn. <g>

 DE> I've been catching an occasional episode and never seeing anything I
 DE> thought was all that good. Now finally I've seen a few episodes I
 DE> liked. How rare are good episodes?

 Seeing as how good and bad are subjective, please forgive me if I nae answer
 this one.


... What does that little red flashing light mean?
--- AdeptXBBS v1.08a25 (VC) (Registered)
 * Origin: The Cereal Port BBS (603)899-3335 199.125.78.133 (1:132/152)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 527 of 584
 From : Wayne Crow                          1:3602/477      .åò 19 .åí 96 23:12
 To   : Ted Stout
 Subj : Favourite Trek movie of a
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
TS>My favourite episode is one in which Lt. Worf is discommidated by the Klingo
TS>empire.

  Yeah, I liked that one also. That episode really shed some emphasis on
the Klingons and there culture, IMO.

Wayne
wcrow@wwisp.com

***
 þ QMPro 1.53 þ Soon To Be A Major Motion Picture.

--- TriToss (tm) Professional 1.0 - #114
 * Origin: Adventure Sports BBS-McCalla,Al. (205)477-4214 (1:3602/477.0)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 528 of 584
 From : Emilio Ares                         1:379/1         .îí 23 .åí 96 09:35
 To   : Frank Glover
 Subj : Re: Ringworld Throne
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE 1.11+

-=> Quoting Frank Glover to Emilio Ares <=-


 EA>  openings for another sequel.  Has anyone else read this?  Opinions on
 EA>  the
 EA>  book?
 FG>
 FG> Haven't read it yet, but as a (poor) Niven fan, I'll catch it as
 FG> soon as it gets to either paperback, or a local library....
 FG> Frank
 FG>

I too am a poor Niven fan.  The Library is good about getting these new
books in.  That's where I picked up the copy I read.

Emilio


... To kidnap a Kzin is probably a mistake.
--- GEcho 1.11+
 * Origin: The Transporter Room - Online Doom! - 704/567-9513 (1:379/1)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 529 of 584
 From : Emilio Ares                         1:379/1         .îí 23 .åí 96 09:35
 To   : Dave Ewen
 Subj : Re: B-5
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE 1.11+

-=> Quoting Richard Sarner to Dave Ewen <=-

 RS> In a message to All <09-06-96 23:45> Dave Ewen wrote:
 DE=> what I had assumed was the central premise of the program:
 DE=> Who here can explain how this 'U.N. building in space' conducts the
 DE=> business that is its central purpose? Of the few episodes I have seen
 DE=> What happened to B-1, B-2, B-3, and B-4?  And who would ever believe
 DE=> that the same project name would continue to be used after all these
 DE=> failures?

B1 and B2 have their own children's show.  They have disguised themselves
as giant bananas who go around dressed in blue striped pajamas acting
silly.  Little children seem to enjoy watching them. <grin>

Emilio



... "Apes were invented because politicians were needed." -- Asimov
--- GEcho 1.11+
 * Origin: The Transporter Room - Online Doom! - 704/567-9513 (1:379/1)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 530 of 584
 From : Pavel Viaznikov                     2:5020/185.9    .îí 23 .åí 96 07:07
 To   : Michael Harper
 Subj : Sound supressors
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Hi there, Michael!

Friday September 20 1996 15:17, Michael Harper chose to gladden the heart of
Pavel Viaznikov and wrote:

 PV>> about NY!) - and the main character had silenced _grenades_. (Would
 PV>> anybody from Hollywood care to buy _this_ idea from me? ;)
 MH>  Don't wave it at them too hard if you wanna keep writer's credit...
 MH>  Hollywood is notorious about taking someone else's ideas, filing off
 MH>  the serial numbers, and keeping it as something Fresh, New And
 MH>  Original...

- Nhis I have noticed...

 MH> but while silenced grenades are technically impossible by
 MH>  today's standards, there's no reason why a low-noise flash grenade
 MH>  couldn't be developed by some bright boy in the future...

- In that story of mine, the were just ordinary grenades, only less powerful (as
intended for fighting in houses etc.), and produced cilicium splinters.

 MH>  Just outta curiosity, where d'you live? My guess would be Kiev or St.
 MH>  Petersburg, but for all I know you live in Brooklyn... in which case
 MH>  may God have mercy upon you... <g!>

- What gave you the big idea? I do not remember giving a Brooklyn greeting
here... Anyway, I live in Moscow. Never been to Brooklyn, - Manhattan, yes, and
Cincinnati, and Marion, Ohio, yes, for several days, on a business trip, but not
Brooklyn, nor Queens etc. OK, we're dangerously close to breaking rules by
writing a personnal message, so bye for now.

                                   With regards and a nice smile,     :)
                                               Pavel

---
 * Origin: - De: Spiritus vini, tinctura aqua 40% (2:5020/185.9)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 531 of 584
 From : Jeff Foy                            1:343/70.1701   .îí 23 .åí 96 17:10
 To   : All
 Subj : Dark Skies
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Hi All,


So, did anyone else watch Dark Skies? What did you think of it if so? I
simply could NOT take my eyes off the screen during the show. It was
very interesting. I love how they worked in the JFK assassination. The
last show that gripped me like this one did was the X-Files...

-=> Jeff <=-

Jeff Foy - Shoreline, WA, Monday, 23 September 1996 at 17:10.
Fido : 1:343/70.1701 - Internet : jfoy@arno.com
URL  :
.!. Watch where you go... remember where you've been...
--- Terminate 4.00/Pro
 * Origin: Point number 5 of the Dragon Star: COMPASSION (1:343/70.1701)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 532 of 584
 From : Star Hawk                           1:362/708.6     .cê 22 .åí 96 12:58
 To   : Christopher Lee
 Subj : Space Truckers!
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
From my perch I saw this come out of the gravity well from Christopher Lee:

  [> Christopher Lee [> A couple of weeks ago on Entertainment Tonight
  [> they showed Dennis Hopper(sp?) making a movie called "Space
  [> Truckers". Anybody know if it has anything to do with  John
  [> DeChancie's "Skyway" Trilogy?

     Since the trilogy takes us to the end of the universe and back, not
likely...  But it might take the concept of the Skyroad for a starting point.
     [Be an interesting series of films to do, but don't think there is enough
of a market to make it worth hollywierd's time.]

                                        Star Hawk, the EchoTrickster

--- MacWoof Eval:23Dec93
 * Origin: William Bull Hedrick @ Hawk Haven's Orbital Point (1:362/708.6)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 533 of 584
 From : ANTONIO MEDINA                      1:2808/20       .òp 24 .åí 96 00:59
 To   : ALL
 Subj : Outer Limits
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Hey all,
    Does anyone know where I can get info in the Outer Limits series?
Limits and Zone episodes RULE!

Antonio

--- GOMail v2.0 [94-0625]
 * Origin: Splatter Counts / Emerado, ND / 701-594-8655 (1:2808/20)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 534 of 584
 From : James Dixon                         1:2604/309      .cê 22 .åí 96 18:57
 To   : Bruce Clark
 Subj : Re: Homeboys
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

BC> JD> But speaking of Homeboys... Last night's episode had Scotty using the
BC> JD> transporter to move some loser around in a bar--same TOS transporter
BC> JD> sound FX at least... And it was again confirmed that this series is
BC> JD> set in the late 23rd Century... Could very well be set around 2293
BC> JD> before Scotty's last voyage...


BC>I caught part of it a few days ago. Scotty said something
BC>to the effect: I pulled their fannies out of it 26 times a
BC>year and look at how I got dumped on.

BC>A snide remark about the 60's when there were 26 episodes
BC>per year rather then the 13 that we get now?

Probably... Though we still get around 26 episodes a season (the only
Trek exception being Voyager's late first season premiere)...

BC>Remember that Scotty is supposed to still be around after
BC>being stuck in that transporter buffer for all those years
BC>and then being rescued by TNG and given a shuttle to go
BC>where ever he wanted after that.

Yah, I'd just love to start a "It's Canon!" thread on one of the fascist
conferences next door... It'd give them dictatorial moderators more fuel
to rule the echoes with iron fists... Seems that's all they're concerned
about: "Is it Official?"... Talk about Trekkie geeks, that old Saturday
Night Live sketch with Shatner giving it to the fans isn't far from the
truth these days...


 * OLXWin 1.00a * Franz Joseph*Michael McMaster*Geoffrey Mandel*Todd Guenther


--- WM v3.10/93-0747
 * Origin: Plain Brown Wrapper BBS-Cresskill NJ.(201)569-6685  (1:2604/309)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 535 of 584
 From : James Dixon                         1:2604/309      .cê 22 .åí 96 19:01
 To   : Brandon Wolgast
 Subj : Homeboys/Trek
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

BW>JD>IS HOMEBOYS IN OUTER SPACE A PART OF THE "CANON" TREK UNIVERSE?

BW>JD>Don't laugh (yet!)...

BW>JD>OK, go ahead and laugh...it Was a stupid passing thought...

BW>To tell the truth it is probably better than the Trek we have now, in
BW>fact, I think it is.  I am a huge sci-fi fan, my favorite show is

Don't say such a thing... I got the impression that Homeboys was aimed
at the same crowd as Mystery Science Theater: people who don't know,
don't care, and couldn't care about SF--so it's made fun of, in an
idiotic manner... (And yes I know that I'm going to get three dozen
flames from MS3K fans because I don't care for what it does to old SF
movies, especially a classic like "This Island Earth"!)...

BW>Babylon 5, I have every episode taped and have watched them a million
BW>times, my favorite movies are the Star Wars movies, I found it terrible
BW>they cancelled Space: Above and Beyond and when STTNG left I was ticked.

Agreed... I've also got all the B5 episodes on tape (heck, I've got all
the Trek episodes on tape too, despite the warp speed drop in
quality!)... B5 seems to come closer to classic Trek ideals than either
of the two technobabble-packed spinoffs...

BW>But I would rather watch an episode of Homeboys than a current episode
BW>of DS9 or Voyager.  And about your points, although Jimmy was in it, he
BW>did not play Scotty (although he was of course "paradying(sp)").

Yah, he played a character named "Pippin" or something along those lines
(then again, if we dare take this series seriously, we could always say
that's their nickname for him!)...

BW>Dilithium does not mean it's Trek.  Before Trek we already had beaming,
BW>shuttle crafts, torpedos, etc., yet Trek is not "something else."  B5
BW>has hyperspace but it's not Star Wars, just like Lucas "stole"
BW>hyperspace from Isaac Asimovs novels which is the earlier I've seen
BW>hyperspace written about (of course I'm positive somewhwere it's even
BW>before that).

Yah, hyperspace has been around a Long time in SF... Old novels and
novellas of the 30s even used it... But Dilithium is strictly Trek (it's
about as associated with it as warp speed and beaming is)...

BW>As for the tribble.. I was laughing my butt off, and it was a "smoogie"
BW>not a tribble! =)

Could be another nickname?

BW>I've seen "trek like" aliens, but ANYTHING with a bump on it's head is a
BW>Trek alien.

Could be...

BW>I just think it's a funny series and so far I've never stopped laughing
BW>(they do need to either get rid of the laugh track or film in front of a
BW>live audiance, and of course get rid of the computer woman).  Last

I got the impression that the computer was a pathetic ripoff of Red
Dwarf's Holly... All the more reason why I don't like it...

BW>nights when they went to the planet "Caucasia," I jsut found funny.  I
BW>guess we all like what we like, look at the bright side, even I can
BW>admit it will get canned soon. =>

That's what they said about the Brady Bunch--and now it's back from the
dead and alive in Feature Films!


 * OLXWin 1.00a * Heavy Frigate Classes*Avenger*Cyane*Kresta*Joshua Paul


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 Msg  : 536 of 584
 From : James Dixon                         1:2604/309      .cê 22 .åí 96 19:43
 To   : Demian Katz
 Subj : Re: Star Cops
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

DK>> Some time ago, I was discussing the British SF cop show Star Cops with
DK>> someone here.  Could that person (or anyone, for that matter) please post
DK>> a full list of the episodes in order?

DK>It wasn't me, but I enjoyed the show and have an episode list...

DK>---CUT HERE---
DK>From: mdupree@tdc.dircon.co.uk (Micky DuPree)
DK>Date: 29 Jul 1994 06:54:05 +0100

DK>STAR COPS
DK>Introduction and Background

DK>It is the year 2027 and the commercial exploitation of space is in full

Beautiful! With posts like this, Fight-o net's still giving me reason to
stick around... This is one of the best conferences left here...


 * OLXWin 1.00a * O 875847885774 - Typical Okudagram Label


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 Msg  : 537 of 584
 From : James Dixon                         1:2604/309      .cê 22 .åí 96 19:45
 To   : Frank Glover
 Subj : Re: SF IN GENERAL
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

FG>BK>   Very few non-SF movies reach the heights of classics. Just wait. The
FG>BK>  bad
FG>BK>   thing is, before long SF as we know it will be current events. Or,
FG>BK>  is that
FG>BK>   the good thing.

FG>   I'm still hoping to one day see an SF film win the Oscar for best picture
FG>Usually they can only win for special effects and/or costuming, and sometime
FG>cinematography and musical score.

Heck, I'd like to see the day when an SF film is Nominated for an Oscar!
It's so political and biased, it'll never happen unless it's a truly
borderline SF film verging on drama...



 * OLXWin 1.00a * Star Fleet Command - Star Fleet Headquarters - U.F.P.


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 Msg  : 538 of 584
 From : James Dixon                         1:2604/309      .cê 22 .åí 96 19:47
 To   : Frank Glover
 Subj : Re: Homeboys/Trek
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

FG>BW>  shuttle crafts, torpedos, etc., yet Trek is not "something else."  B5
FG>BW>  has hyperspace but it's not Star Wars, just like Lucas "stole"
FG>BW>  hyperspace from Isaac Asimovs novels which is the earlier I've seen
FG>BW>  hyperspace written about (of course I'm positive somewhwere it's even
FG>BW>  before that).

FG>   You quite probably have. Hyperspace was `invented' by mathematicians. It
FG>represents a fourth spatial dimension, at right angles to the familiar three
FG>Presumably it could be used as a shortcut between points in normal space tha
FG>would be the equivalent of FTL travel. Wether the real Universe works this w
FG>or not isn't clear, neither can we say how we'd gain access to it if it does
FG>but real mathematics is where *all* notions of hyperspace originate....

Yah, and that goes all the way back to the 19th Century at least... But
it wasn't until around the 1930s that hyperspace travel (i.e. hyperdrive
starships) was integrated into modern SF...something of a twist on the
original theoretical concept of hypercubes and hyperspheres...



 * OLXWin 1.00a * STARDATE 7312.31 APPROVED BY GENE RODDENBERRY-ST Blueprints


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 Msg  : 539 of 584
 From : Michael Harper                      1:123/10        .îí 23 .åí 96 12:46
 To   : James Dixon
 Subj : SF shows in America
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
While sipping a dry martini, James Dixon told Funky Diva about
SF shows in America...

 JD> I don't even think that there Are 5 current SF series...unless you
 JD> mean old shows in syndication being rerun... Of the current ones I'm
 JD> aware of I'm not that crazy over them... I watch the two Trek series (V
 JD> and DS9) but the former is in sad shape... The new Outer Limits on
 JD> Showtime I like, though it doesn't quite live up to the original... The
 JD> X Files I liked during its first season or so but now it's become
 JD> rather boring... Babylon 5's easily the most powerful current series
 JD> (and I can hardly wait for new episodes)... Space: Above and Beyond I
 JD> was beginning to enjoy before it was canceled... What else is there?

 Not much... Currently there are only about six series that can be
 classified as sf running on television, network or syndicated... The
 Trek shows, B5, X-Files, Outer Limits, and Sliders. If there are others
 I can't think of them. New shows, now that's something else. Tobe
 Hooper's take on _The Invaders_, _Dark Skies_, just premiered; not bad
 but not all that good, either. _Early Edition_ looks promising; very
 Capraesque, with a guy getting the next day's paper every morning, the
 premise being that if you had foreknowledge of the immediate future,
 what would you do with it? There's not much else besides that; Chris
 Carter's _Millenium_ might be good, but as I haven't seen it yet, I
 can't judge...


... "You didn't have the right parents?  Whose did you have?" --Lister
--- RA/FD/FMail
 * Origin: The Eclectic Fox -- Memphis TN  (901)327-1008 (1:123/10)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 540 of 584
 From : Frank Glover                        1:2613/477      .îí 23 .åí 96 21:33
 To   : Phill Ash
 Subj : Re: Klingons
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

PA>   FG> Our first impression of Bajor came back in ST:TNG when Ensign Ro
PA>   FG> Laren was introduced. That locality seemed rather impoverished,
PA>  with
PA>   FG> the implication that there were others.
PA>
PA>          Wasn't that the 3rd moon of Valo 1??

   I've been told by others that that wasn't Bajor itself, so you may be
right....

   Frank


--- QuickBBS 2.85 (Beta-3) GoldBase
 * Origin: The Matrix Data Bank BBS, Rochester, Ny (1:2613/477)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 541 of 584
 From : James Dixon                         1:2604/309      .îí 23 .åí 96 18:30
 To   : Phill Ash
 Subj : V: Flashback...
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

PA> JD> characters... I won't even begin to get into Paramount's waste of raw
PA> JD> Cash on reconstructing the Excelsior's bridge set, for how little it

PA>        Waste?  They probably saved $3k by recycling the Movie set
PA>        instead of building a new one.  $3k that could've been invested
PA>        in PRODUCTION <sigh>

They didn't make much use of it though when you think about it... I
mean, they reshot many of the bridge scenes from ST VI... Janeway and
Tuvok could have easily been slotted in there via matting or some other
technique... A few stations needed only be constructed not the whole
bridge... For that matter, much of the story could have been set, say,
in the crew quarters (when you consider the storyline itself!)...

PA> JD> Excelsior officers were all cardboard, Captain Sulu included... This

PA>        This, I could justify...  Coming from the memories of a Vulcan,
PA>        I doubt the emotion would be accurately reflected.  It would've
PA>        been nice if that had meen touched upon, though!

That's like justifying the incomplete OK Corral sets from "Spectre of
the Gun"...

PA> JD> episode was a "forced" 30th anniversary episode whipped up to justify
PA> JD> featuring Sulu and friends...

PA>        Reminiscient of "The Five Doctors"... A nifty idea, but poorly
PA>        executed.

I wouldn't say that... "The Five Doctors" had everything one could ask
for in an anniversary special--and delivered... "Flashback" had more of
a truly thrown-together look...

PA> JD> episode: Tuvok, a Vulcan, eating eggs (Vulcans are vegetarians), Kang
PA> JD> appearing looking just as ratty as in "Blood Oath" right down to the
PA> JD> ridges and uncombed hair (but Sulu recognized him right away--yah,
PA> JD> they're again saying that us fans should edit our memories of TOS!),

PA>        I think we're also supposed to edit the fact that Mark Lenard's
PA>        Klingon character and his "armada's" crew (ST:TMP) all had
PA>        uniform ridges.

Uniform ridges I can comfortably live with...
Old Treknical theory suggests that the Klingons in ST-TMP had uniform
ridges because they were products of selective breeding/controlled gene
pools... Leslie Thompson called them "Berserker Klingons"...

PA>        Howzabout "They didn't have replicators, they didn't have
PA>        holodecks..."

I can imagine a lot of canonheads reading reams into this one... It was
a very General statement, much like "They didn't have cars or
electricity back in the 19th Century"... Maybe not fully perfected,
certainly not up to 20th Century standards, but existent nonetheless...
In Treknical fandom, replicators--then called Fabricators--were in use
throughout most of the 23rd Century, though their limits and efficiency
were questionable, drawing from raw materials bins... The food
synthesizers are simple examples ("Ghost Walker" "Vulcan!"), though in
TOS the final product was delivered to the destination by mini-turbolift
(according to Mr. Scott's Guide to the Enterprise), it wasn't until TAS
that "closed-circuit" transporters were used to deliver the goods (and
in novels like "The Galactic Whirlpool")... As for holodecks, the
closest thing to it was the holographic rec room in the TAS episode "The
Practical Joker"... It was much more limited than the holodeck and relied
primarily upon holography (as did the one on the early 23rd Century
Caracal class command cruiser blueprints), and there's evidence to
suggest that it was an experimental addition to the Enterprise... In "The
Ashes of Eden" and "The Rings of Tautee" suits and other bulky
contraptions were used to achieve the same on a much more personal
level... Roddenberry even wrote about such technology aboard the
Enterprise in The Making of Star Trek--personal holographic tanks became
the Visicons or Visicoms (the latter used for "mail")...


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 Msg  : 542 of 584
 From : James Dixon                         1:2604/309      .îí 23 .åí 96 19:16
 To   : Phill Ash
 Subj : Favourite Trek movie
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

PA>        With the cancellation of the Star Trek II project and the launch
PA>        of the ST:TMP project, the script was again rewritten and

Speaking of which... Whatever happened to that Star Trek Phase II book
by the Reeves-Stevens? It was supposed to have been in book stores
Months ago...


 * OLXWin 1.00a * Trekker in pon farr seeks Trekkess for bonding - leave e-mail


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 Msg  : 543 of 584
 From : Kay Shapero                         1:102/524       .îí 23 .åí 96 08:52
 To   : James Dixon
 Subj : Japanese SF
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Sep 21 15:13>, James Dixon (1:2604/309) wrote to Kay Shapero:

 JD>Today's my birthday and I'm spending it in a half-depressed state
 JD>of mind...

Next year consider spending it in the State of Hawaii instead.  Much more fun...
:->


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 Msg  : 544 of 584
 From : Kay Shapero                         1:102/524       .îí 23 .åí 96 08:58
 To   : Frank Swarbrick
 Subj : New Star Wars Movies
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On <Sep 21 16:14>, Frank Swarbrick (1:104/825) wrote to David Little:

 FS>I read that the next James Bond movie is being shot in some place
 FS>(an old airport hanger??) next year, and after that clears out they
 FS>will film the new Star Wars movie there.  Sounds like it's in England,
 FS>but I'm not sure if that was specifically stated.
 FS>

Could also be the old Hughes Helicopter facility a bit southeast of Marina del
Rey in Los Angeles.  Moviemakers have been using the old hangers for sound
stages for years, and Dreamworks has acquired the land and is trying to get an
honest to goodness movie studio built.  Complicated by the neighbors being
concerned about the traffic, and the fact that the thing is right next to the
only piece of wetlands we've managed to hang onto on this part of the coast, so
they have to be careful about ecological effects.

--- msged 2.06
 * Origin: StormGate Aerie/West LA Netmail Hub/HST (1:102/524)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 545 of 584
 From : Bob Klahn                           1:234/2         .îí 23 .åí 96 22:18
 To   : Frank Glover
 Subj : SF IN GENERAL
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 FG>    I'm still hoping to one day see an SF film win the Oscar for best
 FG>    picture. Usually they can only win for special effects and/or
 FG>    costuming, and sometimes cinematography and musical score.
 FG>
 FG>    E.T. came close, but Gandhi edged it out that year....

 To this day I have not seen E.T.

 Tell me, did I miss anything?

 Is it SF, or Sci Fi?

BOB KLAHN   bob.klahn@toltbbs.com

... Carpe that diem sucker!
 * Silver Xpress V4.3P RB10275

--- FLAME v1.1
 * Origin: Telnet toltbbs.com or call 313-854-6001, Boardwatch #55 (1:234/2)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 546 of 584
 From : Bob Klahn                           1:234/2         .îí 23 .åí 96 22:18
 To   : Bill Clements
 Subj : SOUND SUPRESSORS
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
 BC> preferable to answering using faulty data. I also learned not to
 BC> volunteer information unless I was _ONE_HUNDRED_PERCENT_ sure of
 BC> my data and could show, if necessary, the sources of said data.

 If you are '100 percent sure' of anything I would like to know what that is.

 BC> concerning your future welfare. I am firmly convinced that you,
 BC> as are all American youth, are being severely "short changed" in
 BC> terms of your education. Read "The Happy Days Ahead" in

 If you have any evidence American Youth, in general, are being severly
 'short changed' in terms of their education I would like to see it. I have
 been looking but have been unable to find the supporting data, RAH not
 withstanding.

 BC> 0-441-21883-0 for your further edification. Had my message been
 BC> in language, and thought (or lack thereof), contemporary to
 BC> American youth it would have been:

 BC>  You don't be knowing what you talk about.

 This is typical of a small fraction of contemporary American Youth, and is
 derived from speech patterns handed down from English speech of several
 hundred years ago. I do not believe it is Shakespearian, as is commonly
 thought, but I believe the term is 'East Anglican'. It's been years since I
 saw the map of the area in England where it originated.

 BTW, I find this 'non-standard' English less offensive than the pretentious
 version employed by many of the supposedly educated.

 BC>   SHUT THE F*CK UP!

 This is found almost as much among adults as the young.

BOB KLAHN   bob.klahn@toltbbs.com

... The grave's a fine and private place, though none,I think,do there embrace.
 * Silver Xpress V4.3P RB10275

--- FLAME v1.1
 * Origin: Telnet toltbbs.com or call 313-854-6001, Boardwatch #55 (1:234/2)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 547 of 584
 From : David Little                        1:106/7315      .îí 23 .åí 96 08:49
 To   : Frank Swarbrick
 Subj : New Star Wars Movies
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
-=< Frank Swarbrick used the Jedi Mind Trick on me!>=-

 MJ> I still believe that they will never actually *do* a new trilogy of
 MJ> films--not unless George Lucas hands the project to someone else.
 MJ> All of the talk and rumors about the new project "any day--er,
 MJ> year--now" has been just that:  talk.  Rumor.
 DL> Incorrect. The first episode script is complete, casting is in
 DL> it's final stages and be wrapping up in a month or so, and filming is
 DL> scheduled to begin next spring.
 FS> I read that the next James Bond movie is being shot in some place (an
 FS> old airport hanger??) next year, and after that clears out they will
 FS> film the new Star Wars movie there.  Sounds like it's in England, but
 FS> I'm not sure if that was specifically stated.

    Yes, at a studio not too far from Elstree (where they filmed the Hoth
Hanger and Jabba's Palace).

                                        -=The DoLittle 8-)=-


... STAR WARS FIDONET ECHO...We are not a commitee!
--- Blue Wave/DOS v2.30 [NR]
 * Origin: The Wizards Realm BBS 1-713-946-7315 1:106/7315 (1:106/7315)

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 Msg  : 548 of 584
 From : Brion Lienhart                      1:213/700.2     .òp 24 .åí 96 10:58
 To   : Bob Klahn
 Subj : SF IN GENERAL
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On Thu Sep 19, Bob Klahn said to Charles Daniels:

>> The Day the Earth Stood Still.

 CD> Now that is a classic as well!  That whole "Galactic Community by any
 CD> means" message kicked ass.

 -BK>  I recall reading many years back that the space ship appeared to be
 -BK>made from some form of glass, and that is was quite reasonable that it
 -BK>might be. Ceramics are, after all, a form of glass. They show up
 -BK>everywhere.

Speaking of which, Klaatu and Gort made a cameo apperance in the Animaniacs
episode last weekend.



--- QM v1.31
 * Origin: Ministry of Peace - Carson City, NV (1:213/700.2)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 549 of 584
 From : Brion Lienhart                      1:213/700.2     .òp 24 .åí 96 11:00
 To   : David Little
 Subj : New Star Wars Movies
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On Thu Sep 19, David Little said to Brion Lienhart:

 -DL>        You can come on over here to Houston in March and see the
 -DL>entire
 -DL>trilogy back-to-back and meet the people from the echo!

Thanks for the invite, but it only costs me $10 in gas, and 3 hours (each way)
to visit my sister, it's quite a bit more than that to visit Houston.



--- QM v1.31
 * Origin: Ministry of Peace - Carson City, NV (1:213/700.2)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 550 of 584
 From : Brion Lienhart                      1:213/700.2     .òp 24 .åí 96 11:02
 To   : James Dixon
 Subj : Re: Favourite Trek movie
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On Thu Sep 19, James Dixon said to Joey Haven:

JH>     I agree with the extensive use of exploding com-panels. I like to see
JH>     special effects but, sparingly and only when needed. Besides the best
JH>     FX are the ones outside the ship like exploding cores, torpedoes or
JH>     stars.

 -JD>Yah, a good Treknical question is Why there are bridge consoles
 -JD>powered
 -JD>by mega-voltage lines... At least in "Flashback" Tuvok said that a
 -JD>plasma conduit behind the console was responsible (then of course this
 -JD>begs the question again: Why are there plasma conduits powering bridge
 -JD>consoles?)...

Well, on a US Navy ship there is an Electrical Plant Control Panel, which
controls all of the electricity on the ship, therefore it is connected to every
major electrical circuit with "mega-voltage" lines. Of course since it's just
gauges the lines only carry a couple of milliamps, but it's still 440 or 1600
volts.



--- QM v1.31
 * Origin: Ministry of Peace - Carson City, NV (1:213/700.2)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 551 of 584
 From : Brion Lienhart                      1:213/700.2     .òp 24 .åí 96 11:09
 To   : Michael Harper
 Subj : Sound supressors
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On Fri Sep 20, Michael Harper said to Pavel Viaznikov:

 PV> the ruins of NY (very convenient for somebody who did not know much
 PV> about NY!) - and the main character had silenced _grenades_. (Would
 PV> anybody from Hollywood care to buy _this_ idea from me? ;)

 -MH> Don't wave it at them too hard if you wanna keep writer's credit...
 -MH> Hollywood is notorious about taking someone else's ideas, filing off
 -MH> the serial numbers, and keeping it as something Fresh, New And
 -MH> Original...  but while silenced grenades are technically impossible
 -MH>by
 -MH> today's standards, there's no reason why a low-noise flash grenade
 -MH> couldn't be developed by some bright boy in the future...


No it isn't, you just need to use Hush-a-Boom, the silent explosive. I think it
uses upsidasium or mooseberries as a main ingredient so it might be hard to
manufacture.



--- QM v1.31
 * Origin: Ministry of Peace - Carson City, NV (1:213/700.2)

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 Msg  : 552 of 584
 From : Brion Lienhart                      1:213/700.2     .òp 24 .åí 96 11:11
 To   : Bill Clements
 Subj : SUPPRESSORS/FIREARMS
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On Fri Sep 20, Bill Clements said to Todd Sullivan:

 -BC>There is an age old solution to the abovementioned problem. As a
 -BC>matter of fact the solution is the reason that I much preferred
 -BC>the M14 to the AR15A1 or the M16. I look favorably on the
 -BC>concepts of long reach and authoritative mass when I must work
 -BC>with a bayonet. The bayonet would be a more fearsome weapon in
 -BC>suited combat than it is here on terra firma. This also has the
 -BC>makings of a wonderful plot device.

"Not so clumsy or random as a blaster." Hmm, I seem to have heard that somewhere
before. 8-(;-)



--- QM v1.31
 * Origin: Ministry of Peace - Carson City, NV (1:213/700.2)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 553 of 584
 From : Casper B.yesen                      2:235/335.13    .îí 23 .åí 96 19:00
 To   : Leman Russ
 Subj : New Star Wars movies
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
Hello Leman!

17 Sep 96 04:32, Leman Russ wrote to Justin Mohareb:

 LR>  While the surgery restored his face it did not age well,
 LR> acocunting for hamils appearance in later years.
 >> ;[

Well.. I didn't notice anything unusual to his face, in WingCommander III or VI?
But you may be right...                               .o·   ·o.
                                                     8P       Y8
                                                     Y8b  8  d8P
þ MVH Casper Boyesen - VCE: 43632842                  `Y88888P'
þ FIDO - 2:235/335.13 - GoldED 2.42.G1219          /KLUB  V  UAKE

--- GEcho 1.00
 * Origin: >> Lavender Blue <<  Point #13 (2:235/335.13)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 554 of 584
 From : Funky Diva                          6:720/1415      .cê 22 .åí 96 03:15
 To   : Richard Sarner
 Subj : B-5
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: FastEcho 1.45 801
Hi Richard!

 FD=> Does this mean that the writers of B5 already have a definite
 FD=> "ending" in
 FD=> their minds (how they're going to end the whole story)?  Like for

 RS> Yes. jms, the Executive Producer, concieved the series, and wrote all
 RS> of

the stories for the third season (whew!) He had an outline for the

 RS> course of

the show, some things have changed, but the main structure

 RS> is the same.

So what do you guys think of the third season compared to the others?
Do you think JMS did the right thing? (writing for the whole season)


lili...

... The name of the place is Babylon 3... What the hell!? (BOOM!).
---
 * Origin: -=) dysan bbs (=- (02)9435631/9421935/9423928/9484436 (6:720/1415)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 555 of 584
 From : Funky Diva                          6:720/1415      .cê 22 .åí 96 03:25
 To   : Justin Mohareb
 Subj : B-5
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: FastEcho 1.45 801
Hi Justin!

 FD> Does this mean that the writers of B5 already have a definite "ending"
 FD> in their minds (how they're going to end the whole story)?  Like for
 FD> example as a miniseries does?

 JM> To quote an athletic hero of mine, "ohhhhhhhh YEAH!"  This sucker is

Who's that?

 JM> plotted out to the end.  Or so we've heard. JMS (all praise his mighty
 JM> name <tm>) has said that he's been forced to make changes along the

What did he mean by "forced"áS  I don't know much about him, but from
what little I heard of him, I pictured him as a maverick type of guy
who doesn't take much dog poop from others, especially regarding the
direction of something HE created.  I admit, it's pure conjecture on
my part.  Correct me if I'm wrong.

 JM> way, but he has this thing plotted out.  And apprently in a vault
 JM> (which, my cynical side surmises, probably contains the scripts for the
 JM> other six star wars movies).

Aren't there going to be only 3 more SW movies?  I know they mentioned
9 movies in the past, (even as many as 12 at one point) but I thought
they settled at 6.


lili...

... The name of the place is Babylon 4...  What the hell?!   "...."
---
 * Origin: -=) dysan bbs (=- (02)9435631/9421935/9423928/9484436 (6:720/1415)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 556 of 584
 From : Funky Diva                          6:720/1415      .cê 22 .åí 96 01:33
 To   : Keith Stokes
 Subj : B5 wins the Hugo!
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: FastEcho 1.45 801
I saw a naughty Asian version of "B5 wins the Hugo!" starring Keith Stokes &
Earl Green.

 EG> As you may or may not have already heard, Babylon 5 has won
 EG> the Hugo for
 EG> Best Dramatic Presentation with the episode "The Coming of
 EG> Shadows."  It

 KS> The people sitting behind me almost broke my eardrums when it was
 KS> announced. It received the biggest response of any of the Hugo
 KS>

winners.

What are some of the major Hugo awards?  Is the Best Dramatic Presentation
somewhat equivalent to Best Picture Award in Academy?


lili...

... This tagline is: (((((((( IN STEREO WHERE AVAILABLE ))))))))
---
 * Origin: -=) dysan bbs (=- (02)9435631/9421935/9423928/9484436 (6:720/1415)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 557 of 584
 From : Funky Diva                          6:720/1415      .cê 22 .åí 96 02:11
 To   : Michael Harper
 Subj : SF shows in America
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: FastEcho 1.45 801
Hi Michael!

 FD> Hi fellahs,
 FD> Whoops!  Er, that was a typo rather than an ambitious attempt to
 FD> peasantize all you guys under my ladyship. :p

 MH> But... darling, I'm not under you... Not that it wouldn't be fun,
 MH> though... <lecherous grynne>

<Crack!>  How dare you talk without my permission?

 MH> ... I got a sweater for Christmas.  I wanted a screamer or a moaner.

I'll make you a sweater, a screamer AND a moaner in one lucious
Chirstmas gift pack.  ...DON'T talk.


lili...

... "Sorry for the off topic post, Moderatrix."
---
 * Origin: -=) dysan bbs (=- (02)9435631/9421935/9423928/9484436 (6:720/1415)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 558 of 584
 From : Funky Diva                          6:720/1415      .cê 22 .åí 96 06:17
 To   : James Dixon
 Subj : Re: Favourite Trek movie
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: FastEcho 1.45 801
I saw a naughty Asian version of "Re: Favourite Trek movie" starring James Dixon
& Leman Russ.

 LR>I think voyager sucks, but the best ep was where Tuvok melded with Suter
 LR>and had to deal with the "mental contamination".

 JD> "Meld" had a very obvious problem when compared to TOS:
 JD> here we have Tuvok, a full-blooded Vulcan, who can't pull off a simple
 JD> mind meld with a Betazoid... Whereas Spock, a half-Human Vulcan, goes
 JD> around mind-melding with all sorts of weirdos--and has no ill effects!

Product name: Spock
Function: Universal adapter
Manufactured by: Sarek, Amanda & Co
Special feature: Human gene pool.  Unlimited mind-meld compatibility
Caution: First generation product
Suggestion: To boldly meld with what no Vulcan has melded before


lili...

... Fascinating...
---
 * Origin: -=) dysan bbs (=- (02)9435631/9421935/9423928/9484436 (6:720/1415)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 559 of 584
 From : Brion Lienhart                      1:213/700.2     .òp 24 .åí 96 13:25
 To   : Jeff Foy
 Subj : Dark Skies
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
On Mon Sep 23, Jeff Foy said to All:

 -JF>So, did anyone else watch Dark Skies? What did you think of it if so?
 -JF>I
 -JF>simply could NOT take my eyes off the screen during the show. It was
 -JF>very interesting. I love how they worked in the JFK assassination. The
 -JF>last show that gripped me like this one did was the X-Files...

I tried to watch it, but I couldn't keep my eyes on the screen.



--- QM v1.31
 * Origin: Ministry of Peace - Carson City, NV (1:213/700.2)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 560 of 584
 From : Michael Harper                      1:123/10        .îí 23 .åí 96 15:05
 To   : Frank Swarbrick
 Subj : New Star Wars Movies
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
While sipping a dry martini, Frank Swarbrick told David Little about
New Star Wars Movies...

 FS> I read that the next James Bond movie is being shot in some place (an
 FS> old airport hangar??) next year, and after that clears out they will
 FS> film the new Star Wars movie there.  Sounds like it's in England, but
 FS> I'm not sure if that was specifically stated.

 The 007 soundstage at EMI Elstree is the largest in the world, and if
 I'm not mistaken it's big enough to house a C-5A or two; the term
 "bloody HUGE.." comes to mind. And yes, that's in the UK. It gets
 rented a lot; the stage was rebuilt after the _Legend_ fire, and has
 been used for the monster interior shots for most of the Bond movies,
 all the Indiana Jones films, and _Dune_, among others...

... "Never rode shotgun on a hearse before." -Steve McQueen
--- RA/FD/FMail
 * Origin: The Eclectic Fox -- Memphis TN  (901)327-1008 (1:123/10)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 561 of 584
 From : David Johnston                      1:342/14        .òp 24 .åí 96 00:19
 To   : Jeff Hancock
 Subj : Battle Angel!
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
-> Incidentally, for the hack-watchers, seems there was something called
-> "Odin" which had a full FORTY-FIVE minutes taken out of it when it
-> was dubbed for the U.S. market.

I watched the subtitled version.  Although I doubt that it was improved
by outright butchery, at least it didn't make sense in the first place.

--- PCBoard (R) v15.21/100
 * Origin: Freddy's Place - Edm. AB - 33.6K (403) 413-3460 (1:342/14)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 562 of 584
 From : Patty Moniz                         1:260/388       .cê 22 .åí 96 20:47
 To   : BRUCE CLARK
 Subj : Japanese SF
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE 1.11+
---On 09-13-96  19:10, Bruce Clark chatted about Japanese SF...

 -=> Quoting Patty Moniz to Jeff Hancock <=-

 BC> Nothing like getting a person hooked then having the
 BC> season end and not know if they will renew for another
 BC> year.

 I HATE that!!

 BC> Where can a person get the SUBBED version?
 BC> VIZ SHOP-BY-MAIL doesn't have any of the Sailor Moon
 BC> videos listed in the flyer I get from them.

 [getting sick at the mention of Viz]  Ugh, you actually buy stuff from them?
 [shiver]

 Um, you can't buy subbed videos of SM, hun.  You can find some episodes here
 and there from various fansubbers.  I know that SilverWynd has 4 episodes
 from SMR, and the SMR & SMS movies.  Techno Girls has a few episodes of SS,
 and some of Stars!  Um...I know someone who is planning to sub the series,
 but it will be a while until she gets around to it.  Arctic had subbed the
 first series before the dub came out, but they don't offer it anymore, and
 their copies are so bad anyway, I wouldn't recommend getting them unless you
 MUST have them or will die.  I'm still looking for some kind, caring person
 to give me the ending to the first season. [hint, hint]

 If you REALLY want subs, you can get some, but they're really hard to find.
 I can give you more info, if you want.  Do you have e-mail and internet
 access?



        Shadowcat
        pmoniz@erc.cat.syr.edu

... "My tu-tu!  You singed my tu-tu!"-SM

___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20 [NR]
--- GEcho 1.11+ The BEST
 * Origin: Dragon's Cave, South of Texas, NY. 315-963-3389 (1:260/388)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 563 of 584
 From : Patty Moniz                         1:260/388       .cê 22 .åí 96 21:15
 To   : KAY SHAPERO
 Subj : Japanese SF
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: GE 1.11+
---On 09-14-96  10:32, Kay Shapero chatted about Japanese SF...

 KS> On <Sep 12 17:56>, Patty Moniz (1:260/388) wrote to JEFF HANCOCK:

 JH> Why not?  It could be.... interesting.  ^_-
 PM>
 PM> Hahaha...  Well, I've noticed a lack of females in this echo.

 KS> Oh there are a few of us around...

 Shhhhh!  Maybe if we're quiet, Wills won't hear!  He finally got free in
 the anime conference. That means that he's loose, so watch out!

        Shadowcat
        pmoniz@erc.cat.syr.edu

... Oxymoron: Normal Espionage.

___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20 [NR]
--- GEcho 1.11+ The BEST
 * Origin: Dragon's Cave, South of Texas, NY. 315-963-3389 (1:260/388)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 564 of 584
 From : Bill Hedrick                        1:282/26        .pä 25 .åí 96 10:59
 To   : Michael Harper
 Subj : Re: Sf Shows In America
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
In a message dated 09-23-96 MICHAEL HARPER wrote to JAMES DIXON:

 MH>  Not much... Currently there are only about six series that can be
 MH> classified as sf running on television, network or syndicated... The
 MH> Trek shows, B5, X-Files, Outer Limits, and Sliders. If there are
 MH> others  I can't think of them. New shows, now that's something else.
 MH> Tobe  Hooper's take on _The Invaders_, _Dark Skies_, just premiered;
 MH> not bad  but not all that good, either. _Early Edition_ looks
 MH> promising; very  Capraesque, with a guy getting the next day's paper
 MH> every morning, the  premise being that if you had foreknowledge of
 MH> the immediate future,  what would you do with it? There's not much
 MH> else besides that; Chris  Carter's _Millenium_ might be good, but as
 MH> I haven't seen it yet, I  can't judge...

Well, if they throw enough SF against the wall, some of it will stick....

Ciao,
  BILL

 -> Alice4Mac 2.4 E QWK Eval:22Mar96

--- RA 1.11+/GEcho 1.02+
 * Origin: Science Fiction BBS * Rosemount, MN * (612)423-7358 (1:282/26)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 565 of 584
 From : Michel Fortin                       1:167/150       .cê 22 .åí 96 14:27
 To   : Charles Daniels
 Subj : Red Dwarf
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
     *      De: Charles Daniels             A: Michel Fortin       *
     * Section: [FIDO]-SCI.FI & FANDOM   Date: 18 Sep 96, 3:02 AM  *
     *   Sujet: SF in general                                      *

     Charles,

CD> If you wanna get away from the serious and sell-out stuff the best
CD> advice I can give is to turn to British SF.  Search out Red Dwarf and
CD> Hitchhiker's Guide to The Galaxy.  Look for the best of Doctor Who,
CD> the REAL Doctor Who - not this Fox love story sell out crap.

     The only serie I know a little of is Red Dwarf. I've seen a few
episodes, not many, but those I saw made me laugh a lot. One, in
particular, where the crew goes down on a planet, meets with another race,
come back on board with some sort of metamorph. The thing changed in a
'slinky', a table lamp, a thermos, and god knows what else... completely
crazy!

     I don't know Doctor Who but I know a lot of people like the serie. One
of the problems I have with those is that I don't know when they are showed
at TV. Sometime I catch Red Dwarf by accident but other than that... The
only ones I know are the ones I regularly follow, like B5 for instance.

CD> I think the best series have been Twilight Zone and Red Dwarf.  TZ has

     Twilight Zone was great, I agree.

CD> Well Terminator is good.  I think if you haven't found good stuff on
CD> American TV is just because it isn't there!  The only place I have
CD> found it has been from what it coming out of England.

     Happy to see that some americans watch other things than american TV.
Great things comes from Europe, I agree on that also. I also like, outside
of the SF domain, french cinema. It's easier for me since it is my
language. I heard that, as far as cinema goes, that the american audience
is not found of translated movies. Too bad. A lot of good stuff there.

          __                            Michel
       __///
       \XX/ AMIGA    E-MAIL: michel.fortin%popa_sbe@qcmedia.com

---  Xenolink 1.981,  XQwk 1.6  [REG 10068]
 * Origin: Le Club Amiga Rive-Sud(CARS), Montreal,PQ(514)335-4076 (1:167/150)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 566 of 584
 From : Michel Fortin                       1:167/150       .cê 22 .åí 96 14:27
 To   : Bob Klahn
 Subj : The Outer Limits
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
     *      De: Bob Klahn                   A: Michel Fortin       *
     * Section: [FIDO]-SCI.FI & FANDOM   Date: 19 Sep 96, 5:36 PM  *
     *   Sujet: SF IN GENERAL                                      *

     Bob,

 MF> absolutely brilliant! And what do you think about the new serie of 'The
 MF> Outer Limits', produced in the vast emptiness of Canada. 2 years of
 MF> episodes has been made now (on pay TV) and, as far as I know, it
 MF> started on regular TV last year.

BK>  I haven't seen it yet. I am very reluctant to be at all open to
BK>  remakes of old series, yet I do keep hoping.

     It is not really a remake of the 'old' Outer Limits. It is more in
line with Twilight Zone. The moral, or ethics, is always present and it is
centered more on human relationship than on horror and mysteries. At least,
for the second year. And you have different actors, good actors, in each
episodes (ex. Rebecca DeMornay, "Data", "Worf", many more I can't recall..)
If you haven't watched it; give it a go and tell me about it.

     The first year was more 'aliens' and stuff like that, the second year
is more 'human centered'. Both have great episodes...

                                   See you,
          __                                Michel
       __///
       \XX/ AMIGA    E-MAIL: michel.fortin%popa_sbe@qcmedia.com

---  Xenolink 1.981,  XQwk 1.6  [REG 10068]
 * Origin: Le Club Amiga Rive-Sud(CARS), Montreal,PQ(514)335-4076 (1:167/150)

Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 567 of 584
 From : Michel Fortin                       1:167/150       .cê 22 .åí 96 14:27
 To   : James Dixon
 Subj : The Outer Limits
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
     *      De: James Dixon                 A: Michel Fortin       *
     * Section: [FIDO]-SCI.FI & FANDOM   Date: 19 Sep 96, 7:11 PM  *
     *   Sujet: SF IN GENERAL                                      *

     James,

JD> Twilight Zone was more drama/supernatural thriller... The Outer Limits
JD> on the other hand was generally the closest thing to hardcore SF on a
JD> weekly basis... The new episodes, on the other hand, are pale
JD> imitations of the original and seem too 90ish with all the glittery FX

     I've watched, a few years back, a replay of the original Outer Limits
and, although I did like them when I was 12, can't say they are great and
'classics' as Twilight Zone where.

     For my taste I prefer the new version, wich is less in line with the
original and more in line with what Twilight Zone used to be. For me, at
least.

JD> could on Showtime (while I had it!) and most of the second season
JD> episodes--which is generally an immense improvement over the first
JD> season... The new series isn't bad but it doesn't have the atmosphere

     The second year is better, I agree, but you have little nuggets of
gold in both years. Have you watched all of the first year?

JD> of the original (those claustophobic camera angles and eerie music is
JD> missing!)...

     Could be, but taste change in time. I'm not sure the actual audience
would be interested in a copy of the original serie, nor in a more childish
horror serie.
                              See you,
          __                           Michel
       __///
       \XX/ AMIGA    E-MAIL: michel.fortin%popa_sbe@qcmedia.com

---  Xenolink 1.981,  XQwk 1.6  [REG 10068]
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 Msg  : 568 of 584
 From : Keith Stokes                        1:280/429       .pä 25 .åí 96 12:42
 To   : Funky Diva
 Subj : B5 wins the Hugo!
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 FD> What are some of the major Hugo awards?  Is the Best
 FD> Dramatic Presentation
 FD> somewhat equivalent to Best Picture Award in Academy?

The Best Dramatic Presentation could go to a movie, TV show, radio
show or live presentation. In recent years it has gone to:
All Good Things(ST:TNG); Jurassic Park; The Inner Light(ST:TNG);
TERMINATOR 2; Edward Scissorhands; Indiana Jones & The Last Crusade;
Who Framed Roger Rabbit and The Princess Bride.

Other awards are for Best Novel, various shoter lenths, Professional
Artist, Professional Artist, Fan Artist, Fan Writer, Fanzine, Non-Fiction Book,
and Semiprozine.

  Keith
--- FMail 1.20
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 Msg  : 569 of 584
 From : Robert Siemborski                   1:2604/214      .cê 08 .åí 96 12:21
 To   : Dave Ewen
 Subj : Re: B-5
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 >Who here can explain how this 'U.N. building in space' conducts the
 >business that is its central purpose? Of the few episodes I have seen
 >none of them seemed in any way related to such a ongoing purpose.

They have a galactic council... Much like the UN security council that is shown
often... It is the purpose of the station, but not the purpose of the show.

 >What happened to B-1, B-2, B-3, and B-4?  And who would ever believe
 >that the same project name would continue to be used after all these
 >failures?

These were mentioned... B1, B2, and B3 were sabotaged.

B4 was dragged through time by (spoiler for War Without End ahead) the crew of
B5 to help fight in the previous shadow war 1000 years ago.

 >I've been catching an occasional episode and never seeing anything I
 >thought was all that good. Now finally I've seen a few episodes I liked.
 >How rare are good episodes?

All of them are good.  I have no clue what you are talking about... Bad ones?
Like which eps?

- Rob -

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 Msg  : 570 of 584
 From : Robert Siemborski                   1:2604/214      .îí 16 .åí 96 17:30
 To   : Wayne Crow
 Subj : Re: Favourite Trek movie of a
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 >  Well, I'd actually say it's a tie between Generations and Wrath of
 >Khan. What's your favorite episode of TNG, DSN, and VOY? Mine are from
 >TNG is All Good Things, DS9 -- Way of the Warrior Pt. 1&2 ; VOY -- 37

I liked ST4 if only for the comedy, but I don't want to start a flame war
between ST2 and 4 so scratch that from the record ;-)

As for favorite ep's, I have to say that mine is by far Cause and Effect,
followed by Timescape.  I guess I like it when the crew screws up the spacetime
continum... ;-)  I don't quite see why you like All Good Things so much...
Seemed pretty chaotic and choppy to me, but it *was* a well done final
episode...

Don't watch DS9 too much, but I guess I should, I hear it got very impressive in
the past 2 years.

- Rob -


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 Msg  : 571 of 584
 From : Robert Siemborski                   1:2604/214      .îí 16 .åí 96 17:35
 To   : Ken Mayes
 Subj : Re: Sulu on Voyager
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

 >        If you've got those stars together, then why not come up with a
 >better story, in real time, possibly a time travel story or maybe (given
 >that time travel has been done to death) simply do a flash back story
 >focusing entirely on Sulu and his crew.

Maybe I am missing the difference, but wasn't Tuvok "flashing back" to that
incident?  I thought it was one of the better episodes.  I'm glad to see that
they dropped the people with coral reef hairdos for one episode...

I will have to say one thing.  Every time there was a scene on voyager, it was
ok, but the scenes on the Excelsior were GREAT.

- Rob -

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 Msg  : 572 of 584
 From : Bruce Clark                         1:105/314       .òp 24 .åí 96 21:00
 To   : James Dixon
 Subj : Homeboys/Trek
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
.TID: WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12  91-0012

-=> Quoting Brandon Wolgast to James Dixon <=-

--SNIP--

 JD>1. It's set in the 23rd Century and the first episode features Scotty,
 JD>played by Jimmy Doohan himself as a chief engineer (it could be set
 JD>after ST VI and the opening of "Generations" but right before his
 JD>Jenolan trip, say around late 2293)...

 --SNIP--

 BW> Jimmy was in it, he did not play Scotty (although he was of course
 BW> "paradying(sp)"). Dilithium does not mean it's Trek.  Before Trek we

He plays the role of Pippen. Get the impression he is supposed
to be a character similar to "Norm" on Cheers.


___ Blue Wave/386 v2.30

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 Msg  : 573 of 584
 From : John Lipscomb                       1:3657/2        .pä 25 .åí 96 02:00
 To   : Gapqwk
 Subj : DROP
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
DROP

___ Blue Wave/386 v2.30 [NR]
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 Msg  : 574 of 584
 From : James Dixon                         1:2604/309      .pä 25 .åí 96 18:30
 To   : Dave Ewen
 Subj : SF shows in America
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

DE>JD>The Prisoner was another British series... Honestly more of a borderline
DE>JD>SF series built around mystery and the bizarre in a futuristic place
DE>JD>known only as The Village...a prison where everyone has a number and not
DE>JD>a name... It focused on Number Six (John Drake? This would certainly
DE>JD>start an interesting thread here!), a retired secret agent--and the
DE>JD>efforts of Number Two (the Village's "mayor") to crack... Very weird in
DE>JD>parts, the episodes were concentrated and complex... It ran only 17
DE>JD>episodes and today is a true cult classic...

DE>My understanding was that the "village" was an isolated place created
DE>by and under the control of some mysterious intelligence service for the
DE>purpose of extracting information from the inhabitants, who were
DE>various captured spys and others with strategic knowledge.

Well, the question becomes What intelligence service... They were pretty
advanced...and let's not forget that brain-blowin' final episode "Fall
Out"!


 * OLXWin 1.00a * TREK9.ZIP @ http://www.sas.upenn.edu/~azion


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 Msg  : 575 of 584
 From : James Dixon                         1:2604/309      .pä 25 .åí 96 18:31
 To   : Dave Ewen
 Subj : Sulu on Voyager
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

DE>JD>This is the crux of the problem and why, after all these years, I can
DE>JD>still go back to the old 79 episodes from the 60s and enjoy them even
DE>JD>though I've seen them countless times before... They didn't need flashy
DE>JD>FX, sophisticated-sounding technobabble... They were well-written
DE>JD>stories with solid plots, characters, and meaningful storylines...

DE>JD>The episodes of the past few years, on the other hand, fail to hold up
DE>JD>after repeated viewings... The characters are so flat and undefined, and
DE>JD>the stories so non-credible that it's like watching a cheap cartoon...


DE>A number of TOS episodes were based on the works of classic SF writers.
DE>I doubt that is the situation in the more modern SF series--I never see
DE>any famous writers names when they roll the credits...

Yah, they don't Want any and they apparently don't Need any... There's
so much Momentum built up, so many "Trekker-zombies" out there, that
they can get their kids to write the episodes and it wouldn't make any
difference (actually this Has happened in at least one case, as I
recall, either a V or DS9 episode was written by one of the producer's
daughters!)...


 * OLXWin 1.00a * James T. Dixon...Don't you read Trek History?


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 Msg  : 576 of 584
 From : James Dixon                         1:2604/309      .pä 25 .åí 96 18:33
 To   : Kay Shapero
 Subj : SF shows in America
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

KS> JD>Blake's Seven is the newest of the 5 I've noted here... Another

KS>Fun too.  I liked the way it took the old cliche of the gutter sweepings of
KS>the galaxy banding together to challenge the evil rulers and stood it on it'
KS>ear by having them ACT like the gutter sweepings of the galaxy for a change.
KS> :->  And I still maintain Vila took a dive...

KS>Come to think of it, you might like this...
KS> VILA; THE ONE WHO GOT AWAY
KS>    Words & Tune: Kay Shapero

I like it!

Speaking of which, did you ever read that HORRIBLE novel called
"Afterlife" which picks up where "Blake" left off? It's got to be one of
the worst novels I've ever read--for every imaginable reason... Tony
Atwood wrote it (who also later penned the nearly-as-bad "Turlough and
the Earthlink Dilemma" which was like "Afterlife" re-written into the
Doctor Who universe!)...


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 Msg  : 577 of 584
 From : James Dixon                         1:2604/309      .pä 25 .åí 96 18:37
 To   : Michael Harper
 Subj : SF shows in America
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

MH> JD> I don't even think that there Are 5 current SF series...unless you
MH> JD> mean old shows in syndication being rerun... Of the current ones I'm
MH> JD> aware of I'm not that crazy over them... I watch the two Trek series (V
MH> JD> and DS9) but the former is in sad shape... The new Outer Limits on
MH> JD> Showtime I like, though it doesn't quite live up to the original... The
MH> JD> X Files I liked during its first season or so but now it's become
MH> JD> rather boring... Babylon 5's easily the most powerful current series
MH> JD> (and I can hardly wait for new episodes)... Space: Above and Beyond I
MH> JD> was beginning to enjoy before it was canceled... What else is there?

MH> Not much... Currently there are only about six series that can be
MH> classified as sf running on television, network or syndicated... The

Well...you should change it to "What's your Top 3?"...

MH> Trek shows, B5, X-Files, Outer Limits, and Sliders. If there are others
MH> I can't think of them. New shows, now that's something else. Tobe
MH> Hooper's take on _The Invaders_, _Dark Skies_, just premiered; not bad

Yah, I just Knew the pilot episode would end that way, what with all the
Kennedy hype... I think it'll end up something like the War of the
Worlds tv series, just set in the 60s... Is it just me, or is this
series already just Begging for an X Files crossover episode?

MH> but not all that good, either. _Early Edition_ looks promising; very
MH> Capraesque, with a guy getting the next day's paper every morning, the
MH> premise being that if you had foreknowledge of the immediate future,
MH> what would you do with it? There's not much else besides that; Chris

Early Edition? I must've missed this one... What time/channel was/is it
on?

MH> Carter's _Millenium_ might be good, but as I haven't seen it yet, I
MH> can't judge...

When's that supposed to premiere, in October? I think there's too many X
Files clones coming out...

UPN's got The Burning Zone (saw the pilot episode which looked like it
had some potential, though it's clearly something along the lines of an
Andromeda Strain clone)...


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 Msg  : 578 of 584
 From : James Dixon                         1:2604/309      .pä 25 .åí 96 18:44
 To   : Kay Shapero
 Subj : Japanese SF
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

KS> JD>Today's my birthday and I'm spending it in a half-depressed state
KS> JD>of mind...

KS>Next year consider spending it in the State of Hawaii instead.  Much more
KS>fun... :->

Michael Okuda's birthplace and home?!!

I DON'T THINK SO...


 * OLXWin 1.00a * Creation: Soon to be only Official Canon conventions!


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 Msg  : 579 of 584
 From : James Dixon                         1:2604/309      .pä 25 .åí 96 18:46
 To   : Brion Lienhart
 Subj : Re: Favourite Trek movie
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

BL>JH>     I agree with the extensive use of exploding com-panels. I like to se
BL>JH>     special effects but, sparingly and only when needed. Besides the bes
BL>JH>     FX are the ones outside the ship like exploding cores, torpedoes or
BL>JH>     stars.

BL> -JD>Yah, a good Treknical question is Why there are bridge consoles
BL> -JD>powered
BL> -JD>by mega-voltage lines... At least in "Flashback" Tuvok said that a
BL> -JD>plasma conduit behind the console was responsible (then of course this
BL> -JD>begs the question again: Why are there plasma conduits powering bridge
BL> -JD>consoles?)...

BL>Well, on a US Navy ship there is an Electrical Plant Control Panel, which
BL>controls all of the electricity on the ship, therefore it is connected to
BL>every major electrical circuit with "mega-voltage" lines. Of course since it
BL>just gauges the lines only carry a couple of milliamps, but it's still 440 o
BL>1600 volts.

Yah, but you'd think this would be located in Main Engineering (or near
the main reactor) on a starship...not way upstairs on the main bridge...
I know, it's the nerve center of the ship, and offers a great deal of
control over her (as proven in countless episodes) but still and all
it's a major design flaw to ring the bridge module with plasma
conduits...


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 Msg  : 580 of 584
 From : James Dixon                         1:2604/309      .pä 25 .åí 96 19:41
 To   : Jeff Foy
 Subj : Dark Skies
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

JF>So, did anyone else watch Dark Skies? What did you think of it if so? I
JF>simply could NOT take my eyes off the screen during the show. It was
JF>very interesting. I love how they worked in the JFK assassination. The
JF>last show that gripped me like this one did was the X-Files...

It was okay, though I found many elements in it rather predictable (it
was leading up to the JFK assassination--quite obviously I thought)... I
hope it doesn't end up being a War of the Worlds set in the 60s...


 * OLXWin 1.00a * Heavy Frigate Classes*Avenger*Cyane*Kresta*Joshua Paul


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 Msg  : 581 of 584
 From : James Dixon                         1:2604/309      .pä 25 .åí 96 19:43
 To   : Bob Klahn
 Subj : SF IN GENERAL
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

BK> FG>    I'm still hoping to one day see an SF film win the Oscar for best
BK> FG>    picture. Usually they can only win for special effects and/or
BK> FG>    costuming, and sometimes cinematography and musical score.
BK> FG>
BK> FG>    E.T. came close, but Gandhi edged it out that year....

BK> To this day I have not seen E.T.

BK> Tell me, did I miss anything?

In a word: NO!

BK> Is it SF, or Sci Fi?

It's kiddie FANTASY... The first time I saw it was the network
premiere... I set my VCR and all... I watched it and practically
screamed out "Huh? This is IT?"... In other words, the usual Spielberg
"Typical American family" meets ____... Lots of overblown FX and
nonsense chucked in to cover up Gaping holes in plot, logic, and common
sense... This is the film which started the belief that
extraterrestrials are retarded dwarves... An example of what good PR can
do for a movie--aimed at every Tom, Dick, and Harry of every age (no
scientific background required--nor Needed!)...

You're better off popping in your tape of Forbidden Planet or 2001...
Heck, even ST-TMP...


 * OLXWin 1.00a * If ST V is "NonCanon" then ST VII should be "MegaNonCanon"


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 Msg  : 582 of 584
 From : James Dixon                         1:2604/309      .pä 25 .åí 96 19:50
 To   : Antonio Medina
 Subj : Outer Limits
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

AM>Hey all,
AM>    Does anyone know where I can get info in the Outer Limits series?
AM>Limits and Zone episodes RULE!

OK, first you're going to want to go to a bookstore or library and get
an excellently written book called "The Outer Limits: The Official
Companion" by David J. Schow and Jeffrey Frentzen... It came out in '86
at $8.95 in softcover, and is some 400 pages long... Covers all 49
episodes of the classic series in detail and is very in-depth, with
interviews and other goodies...

Second, that all depends on exactly what info you're looking for (be
specific)...



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Ä [19] SFFAN (2:463/2.5) ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ SFFAN Ä
 Msg  : 583 of 584
 From : James Dixon                         1:2604/309      .pä 25 .åí 96 19:54
 To   : Funky Diva
 Subj : Re: Favourite Trek movie
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ

FD> JD> "Meld" had a very obvious problem when compared to TOS:
FD> JD> here we have Tuvok, a full-blooded Vulcan, who can't pull off a simple
FD> JD> mind meld with a Betazoid... Whereas Spock, a half-Human Vulcan, goes
FD> JD> around mind-melding with all sorts of weirdos--and has no ill effects!

FD>Product name: Spock
FD>Function: Universal adapter
FD>Manufactured by: Sarek, Amanda & Co
FD>Special feature: Human gene pool.  Unlimited mind-meld compatibility
FD>Caution: First generation product
FD>Suggestion: To boldly meld with what no Vulcan has melded before

That's...funky...


 * OLXWin 1.00a * O 875847885774 - Typical Okudagram Label


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 Msg  : 584 of 584
 From : Bill Clements                       1:18/230        .òp 24 .åí 96 18:38
 To   : Owen E. Oulton
 Subj : SOUND SUPRESSORS
ÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄÄ
From the desk of a cynical old man...

Posted 21 Sep 96 - Owen E. Oulton to Bill Clements

 BC> Perhaps you missed this sentence entirely.

 BC> Your answer to the question about vacuum welding corroborates my
 BC> thinking on this subject.

 OE> No, I didn't miss it, it's just that the sentence seemed on the surface
 OE> of it to be self-contradictory, and where words worth more than 2 cents
 OE> are used on the boards these days, I cynically just accept that they're
 OE> used incorrectly. The level of literacy on-line is, to be blunt,
 OE> execrable. <G> My apologies.

Apology accepted. Be careful of what you say here friend. The
use of proper english and formally polite language, in this
echo, recently got me called a "snotty pompous ass". I fear that
the the level of literacy on-line is inversely proportional to
the number of Americans on-line. Since the 1965 public education
in the U.S. has been diluted to the point of nonexistence. In
1996 only 7 of 50 states have performance testing to determine
grade advancement and/or graduation. It is not possible for a
child to be adequately educated in any American public school.

 BC> The process of vacuum welding is cumulative as long as the parts
 BC> in question are in molecularly static contact. Normal use and
 BC> servicing interrupts contact at the molecular level and inhibits
 BC> vacuum welding. Objects appearing to be weapons that are not used
 BC> and serviced; broken down for cleaning, inspection, and necessary
 BC> replacement of parts; are ornaments and need not be expected to
 BC> function when needed.

 OE> This would involve a complete stripdown of every component, every single
 OE> time the weapon was taken out.  It's possible to do this, but
 OE> inefficient, and, with most current weapons, contraindicated.  Modern
 OE> weapons are not designed to be completely dismantled except in extreme
 OE> circumstances.  There's also the problems of materials fatigue.  Current
 OE> weapons are designed to be operated in an Earth-normal environment.
 OE> While they would still function in a space environment, such function
 OE> would be less than optimal.  A complete redesign would be needed,
 OE> including such things as placing the bore (and thus the recoil) in line
 OE> with the centre of the weapon's mass, replacing metal springs with
 OE> materials which do not become brittle in space, drastically different
 OE> recoil compensation systems, etc...  With such a redesign process, one
 OE> could eliminate much of the metal-to-metal contact and likely lower the
 OE> number of parts.  Hell, one could likely seal at least *some* of the

 OE> components in inert gas.  As well, some things we currently consider
 OE> options would probably become standard, like laser sights.

For the sake of argument, I agree with your thoughts on design,
I maintain that you have overstated the problem of vacuum
welding. Conventional weapons would certainly function in less
than an optimal manner in space. However; the act of working the
action and dry-firing the weapon on a daily basis would probably
eliminate the problem of vacuum welding to most moving parts. A
weekly adjustment of non-moving parts, screws loosened 1/4 turn
and tightened etc., should be enough to maintain a weapon's
usefulness. This task, tedious as it would be, would fall within
the normal duties of a unit armorer. (The duty of armorer is at
best, under normal conditions, a study in tedium.)

Were I designing a weapon for use in low gravity/vacuum
conditions I would build a 5mm (or less) spherical, caseless,
electrically ignited round. This round would be launched from a
shoulder fired laser sighted open breach (recoilless) weapon of
no less than 40cm length and 4kg mass. Said weapon having the
ability to mount 15cm of edged weapon on the business end.
That's right; enough length and mass to make a bayonet
effective. (In their perennial search for higher tech writers of
science fiction, as well as hollywood screen writers, have
overlooked the potential of edged weapons in no/poison atmosphere
situations. Consider the scenario of an explorer on a world
populated with chlorine breathing practical jokers. He gets a
poke in the ass with a sharp stick. They get the surprise when he
dies because they unintentionally breached his atmosphere suit.)
Until the advent of powered armor of the type described in
STARSHIP TROOPERS and THE FOREVER WAR there may well be "Swash
Buckling Action" (swordplay even) in space.

If you wish to continue discussing weapons design let's start a
new thread. I suggest the title of "SPACE WEAPONS DESIGN". Send
me a brief design proposal under the above title and we'll see
what other participants crawl out of the woodwork. I'm sure that
Nicolai will have several words of more than one cylinder to add
as will Todd once he gets off the road and back on fidonet.

 OE> Oh, speaking of laser sights, have you seen the writeups in various
 OE> magazines about the new mini-laser sights which actually replace the
 OE> recoil spring guide, and are activated by the slide stop lever, with no
 OE> external modification to the weapon?

Though I don't attempt to stay current, only so many hours in a
day, I do occasionally glance at magazines on the newsstand. The
concept mentioned above moves laser sights from the category of
high tech toy to that of functional weapons technology. Imagine
trying to draw and fire using the old style laser sight. Someone
with a less sophisticated weapon, a club for instance, could
remove you from action while you were trying to clear your
weapon. Laser sights have a twofold purpose:

  1. Provide the casual shooter with a level of proficiency close
  to that of one who practices daily.

  2. Provide the user with a psychological edge over his
  opponent. (One false move and that dot on your chest will be
  blood instead of light.)

If one intends to use a weapon for its primary function, killing
people, and is willing to spend the time and money on preparation
then laser sights are an unnecessary expense.

--rwc

... "All men are created unequal." --LL

--- PPoint 2.00 / QWK

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